
Ask YC: Hacker moms & dads, what do you read? - rodrigo
Ive just had a baby girl, what do you, hacker moms and dads read about children? is there a place online to read interesting stuff? any deadtree books you recommend?
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niels_olson
I just spent four weeks on a pediatric neurology clerkship in medical school,
and my wife is a pediatric occupational therapist. Throw away your TV.

Just do it.

After Katrina, when we evacuated to my parents' house, they'd just moved in
themselves, the day before. We agreed to not hook up cable. My kids calmed
down noticeably. No, remarkably. We watch, maybe, a movie or two a week. The
DVD player broke, so they only watch those movies on a computer anyway. The TV
hasn't been turned on in weeks. I now own a $5000 Ethan Allen box to hide a
$500 TV box that I don't use. Just throw the boob tube away. What do you do
with a livingroom that has no TV? Feng shui.

My wife has started advising parents of kids with ADHD to get rid of their
TVs. They're scared at first, but they do it. And in a few days or weeks they
love her for it.

The pediatric neurologists I was with last month think ADHD probably isn't
even a legit diagnosis (psychiatric diagnoses are voted on). They very frankly
told me they think it's mainly a combination of TV and bad parenting, which is
on the rise thanks to TV and entirely too many double-income homes. And if
you're questioning their politics, these folks are _insanely_ smart and
educated, and probably more liberal than Noam Chomsky, and I know at least one
that raised four kids herself.

In case you missed it: throw away the TV. All of them.

For specific readings, go to PubMed's Entrez site and look up the author
"Christakis DA". He's prolific, but his biggest newsmakers are some rather
large studies showing dose-dependent correlations between TV and obesity,
attention deficit, violence at school, and I think there was something else.

~~~
curi
The arguments against TVs are very similar to the older arguments made against
letting children have books.

~~~
Olgaar
I'm not one to tell anyone how to raise their children (see arguements below
about spanking, yikes). This is just my experience... take it or leave it
YMMV. My son is only two, and we find that if we let him watch too much TV his
behavior takes a dive... more tantrums, less respect/listening to me and mom.
As an experiment, we unplugged the TV for several days and the results were
immediate and dramatic. Since then, we try to limit his TV time even more so
than before. The danger is that he enjoys it, and us parents enjoy the
opportunity to take care of other projects around the house without
interruption. So if we find the family slipping into TV reliance, we pull the
plug for a couple days. Sometimes he's upset at first when he realizes it
doesn't work, but he's over it in SECONDS and moves on to something else. I'm
not going to bother guessing why this is the case, but our experience is very
clear to us.

My personal philosophy is all things in moderation. So if it makes him happy
to watch the Wiggles or some old-school Fraggle Rock on DVD, he gets to. But
it's the responsiblity of me and mom to keep it reasonable and keep the house
a happy place for everyone.

~~~
curi
My philosophy is more like "all things thoughtfully". We should care about why
TV seems to cause various effects, and what effects unplugging it may have.

For example, suppose a child wants to read a good book, you take it away, and
he "gets over it in seconds". Does that mean all is right with the world? No.
Whether or not he remains upset about the book, he's still missing out on a
wonderful book that could have benefitted him.

One also ought to think about how to correct errors. For example, pulling the
plug on the TV avoids any input from someone who might know something you
don't (like, your child might know more about how important it is to him to
see a particular show). Wouldn't it be better to reach an agreement? The more
right you are, the easier that will be, won't it? But if you have made a
mistake one time, then getting others to agree will be harder, so you get an
opportunity to avoid that error.

~~~
Olgaar
I think I agree with you on most counts. Although I'm a little confused by
your proposal about the importance of reaching a consensus with the child. Are
you refering to older children? As I'm sure you're aware, a child under 2-3
(depending on the child) doesn't have the vocabulary to reach a complex
agreement with anyone.

~~~
curi
The less a child knows, the easier it is to reach a (simple) agreement.
Objecting requires having ideas, not ignorance. I don't think there's usually
any reason for a very young child to disagree with his parent frequently since
he generally won't have any better ideas than they do. But there are sometimes
cases of serious disagreement and it's important not to gloss those over.

~~~
niels_olson
The first sentence is an unsubstantiated assumption and, as a parent, I can
tell you it's wrong. The less a child knows, the less context they have, so
the less room you have to negotiate an agreement. Plus, their knowledge level
is intimately tied to their memory span, their language, their capacity to
understand their own emotions, and all the things you and I still grapple
with, but at least we have more context and language. And even then, if you
subscribe to the ideas of George Lakoff, our life experience may be
sufficiently divergent that we still can't arrive at an agreement. I think
that divergence is what led you to make the original statement, that the less
you know the easier it is to reach a simple agreement. It's tempting to follow
that one variable, divergence of life experience, back to a singularity, but
that neglects the many other variables at play in real life.

------
DanielBMarkham
As a hacker and father of four (2 grown now) I've read this thread with
interest. What books to read as a new dad?

I wouldn't read any books. Or if you must read them, do so with a pinch of
salt. Use your instinct. People in books will tell you all sorts of sounds-
good things that rarely have any traction in the real world. It's like
business tapes and self-help books: they know a bunch of people are out there
looking for advice and they're going to pump your head full of something for
your twenty bucks whether it works or not.

I am going to try to make a simple observation that I hope is not too
controversial. For all of those "I did X,Y, Z and it is so much better" folks,
last I checked humans have been making little replacements for millions of
years. These replacements have done all sorts of things like introduce
philosophy, conquer sickness, sail the oceans, learn to fly, etc. And I
guarantee that none of these hundreds of thousands of exceptional cases ever
had a parent that read some special book. Perhaps there is a pattern to how
they were raised. If so, that empirical data is long lost to history.

So how about this? Try being a human with your kids. Seems to have worked for
the rest of history except the last few decades. Might be worth giving it a
shot, right? There are plenty of people out there who will read the books for
you. Take a look around on this thread. And they will be more than willing to
provide you their special "insight" on your situation -- complete with guilt
trips, moral bromides, and sing-a-long philosophies. You should get used to
these folks anyway, because whatever you do they'll still be there providing
you with their counsel. Whether you want it or not.

~~~
boredguy8
"And I guarantee that none of these hundreds of thousands of exceptional cases
ever had a parent that read some special book. Perhaps there is a pattern to
how they were raised. If so, that empirical data is long lost to history."

While I agree that you should read "with a pinch of salt", that's true for
anything you read. But the sentiment that you oughtn't read anything is a bit
overstated, it seems. Why?

One would (theoretically) avoid engaging a massive project without
understanding the fundamentals of project design / development. Nor ought we,
say, start a home renovation project without understanding the basics of
construction. While one could certainly _end up_ successfully completing one's
objectives, there's a hefty 'dumb tax' to be paid without learning from the
mistakes of others.

Child rearing is no different. We don't magically know how to raise children.
Some of us are lucky in having had good models in our parents. But even in
that instance, a broader basis of knowledge is helpful because your children
aren't your parent's children.

Certainly one can go overboard. And certainly some parents latch on to cargo
cult science as if it were holy writ. But one can also go too far in the other
direction and not read anything.

~~~
DanielBMarkham
I was being somewhat rhetorical. But only somewhat. Your statement that "We
don't magically know how to raise children" I find to be very interesting. How
then, do we learn how to raise children? Certainly parenting is indeed built
into the species, as it is in every other species.

I would not go so far as to ban any learning at all, only to understand that
there is a financial motive in people giving you advice from self-help books.
New parents are nervous, worried about doing the right thing. This is exactly
as it should be. In response to this worry the free market provides us with
lots of "security blankets" in the form of books and advice to make us feel
like we have nothing to worry about. The odd side-effect to this is that
people reading different books feel the _other_ people are all full of tripe.
Let the baby cry. Don't let the baby cry. Spank the kid. Don't ever spank the
kid! Nurture children. Teach children self-reliance. Discipline. Self-
exploration.

These are somewhat contradictory to say the least. Here's an idea: when
presented with lots of self-contradictory information, look at nature. Nature
is neither good nor bad, nor is it necessarily optimized for modern life. But
it certainly has worked for eons. Must be something of value going on in
there. In fact, I lean towards trusting genetic learning over self-promotion
any day.

My opinion only. YMMV. Do not operate heavy machinery while raising your
child.

------
ghiotion
Man, just go with your gut. I've got two kids, 6 and 1.5 (both boys) and
they're night and day different. The best advice is to listen to you
instincts. You know your kids better than any one else. If it doesn't feel
right, it ain't right.

One caveat: ignore any advice that says you shouldn't get your kids
vaccinated. The science doesn't hold up and, even if it did, it ignores the
concept of relative risk (i.e. you're statistically more likely to be maimed
by an uncontrolled case of measles than to get Autism from the MMR vaccine).

~~~
jojoleflaire
I second this advice.

I have two daughters. The oldest is 4 going on 5, the youngest is closing in
on 2. I guess I read the same books as my wife when she was pregnant with our
oldest daughter ("What to Expect When You're Expecting", and some encyclopedic
books regarding kids development and diseases). But neither of us has really
resorted to any kind of manuals since then.

The most surprising thing (to me, at least) about having kids was the
realization that they aren't alien creatures or high maintenance robots, but
little people with their own very different personalities, even as newborns.
And like other people you need to engage them on their level. And the
relationship evolves from there.

So I guess my advice here is listen to them first. Read some clinical books to
get the facts about sickness and heath, and when to call a doctor, but your
let own observations be the main guide. Congratulations!

~~~
rodrigo
I try to follow my gut (and my wifes gut), that seems to be the best way; But
im sure there are a lot of things our gut wouldnt be good enough just from not
having enough information, thats why im trying to reach the collective
intelligence on the subject.

------
merrick33
As a father the best thing you can do after attending to your daughters
immediate needs, is learn more about how to become the kind of father that
your daughter needs. After reading the following book I feel better prepared
and informed to be a better father.

Strong Fathers, Strong Daughters ([http://www.amazon.com/Strong-Fathers-
Daughters-Secrets-Fathe...](http://www.amazon.com/Strong-Fathers-Daughters-
Secrets-Father/dp/1596980125))

------
sanj
I was looked at like a freak when I mentioned this in my pre/post-natal class,
but I got a lot out The Language Instinct, by Steven Pinker.

Evolutionary neurobiology is a great way to think about skill acquisition in
young children.

~~~
whacked_new
Haha, unless something monstrous is going on, it would be a couple years,
maybe more, before little kids can understand that book!

By the way, what is this pre/post-natal class?

~~~
sanj
I was part of a very Cambridge nutty-crunch-granola class called
"Hypnobirthing" run by the midwifery clinic we used.

The pre- part was a lot of learning about the techniques and how to use them.

The post- was a get together with lots of very young kids with parents talking
about what worked and what didn't.

~~~
whacked_new
That actually seems like a fantastic class. Outside of the classroom, where
would one get the same amount/quality of information?

And, do you follow related research? Does it fit?

------
ixnu
We have a 10 month old, a six, and eight y-o. Here are some books that have
helped us:

The Happiest Baby on the Block: The New Way to Calm Crying and Help Your
Newborn Baby Sleep Longer (Paperback) by Harvey Karp

Parenting Beyond Belief: On Raising Ethical, Caring Kids Without Religion by
Dale McGowan

------
babo
Just try to spend as much time with her as you can! The best is to take a deep
breath and take full responsibility of your baby for a few hours, just two of
you. This helps the create a very special relation between all three of you,
while helping poor mum to recover a bit. We did it with our younger kid from
the second month as my wife studied on each Saturday for 8 hours or more. From
our experience this is a real booster. Be brave!

------
bayareaguy
When my children were small, I found the Berkeley Parents Network[1] to be a
good source of information.

[1] <http://parents.berkeley.edu>

------
mhb
I liked "Super Parents Super Children" ([http://www.amazon.com/Super-Parents-
Children-Frances-Kendall...](http://www.amazon.com/Super-Parents-Children-
Frances-
Kendall/dp/0929205006/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204509907&sr=1-1))

From their book description: Provides the libertarian answer to solving all
your child-raising problems, based on self-discipline and freedom of choice.

~~~
curi
libertarians frequently take positions like "I own the TV, so it's my decision
if/when it will be used." How does this book handle that sort of issue?

(Note: I am generally libertarian-oriented and this kind of position is often
taken by people I otherwise respect.)

~~~
mhb
Here are some quotes from the book which may provide more insight:

"Children are rational and logical, and want to be happy, just as we do."

"The only important difference between adults and children is experience."

"The three main qualities you need to foster in your child's personality are
independence, self-esteem and individuality."

"In order to prevent your children from harming your belongings, you need to
establish exactly what property belongs to whom in your home.... A working
example would be to decide that your child's room, toys and clothes are his
property."

------
aggieben
Baby Wise. I'd swear by 95% of it.

~~~
pchristensen
I'd be curious which 5% you don't swear by.

~~~
aggieben
mostly CYA, because I can't remember all of it anymore. I do remember thinking
"we'll do it a little differently than it says". There wasn't anything in the
book that I can recall that I thought was completely wrong, though.

------
koolmoe
I have a 15 mo girl.

My wife read lots of books. I read a few. With a few exceptions, the books
have been a waste of time and money. So many of the books in this genre have
the feel of the Learn Blub in 21 Days line of programming books. Accept from
the get-go that parenting is hard, there are no silver bullets, and you are
going to spend a lot of time and energy if you want to do a good job, and
filter anything you read from that perspective.

Nevertheless, we did find some helpful books. The most useful books we have
are a reference book given to us by our pediatrician and a book about baby
sign language (The following link is to the revised edition, which is not the
one we have, but it's cheaper on amazon [http://www.amazon.com/Baby-Signs-
Revised-Linda-Acredolo/dp/B...](http://www.amazon.com/Baby-Signs-Revised-
Linda-
Acredolo/dp/B0012F7UCI/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204563699&sr=8-1)).

We went through a lot of "the book says" conversations early on, especially
related to getting her to sleep. The thing to realize here is that it is up to
you how to do it. There's a book out there that will support your position,
and many of the books are contradictory. So, in the end, you'll end up having
to decide what you think is right. The book many parents find useful is merely
the one that reinforces their opinion, and they will use that book to appeal
to authority in the passive-aggressive conversations that all new parents seem
wont to have.

I had trouble finding what I felt like were unbiased opinions on sleep in
particular. This book: [http://www.amazon.com/Healthy-Sleep-Habits-Happy-
Child/dp/03...](http://www.amazon.com/Healthy-Sleep-Habits-Happy-
Child/dp/0345486455/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204563964&sr=1-1) was
helpful, mostly because it more or less laid out three approaches and passed
few, if any, value judgements on going to the baby vs. letting her cry herself
to sleep.

In the end, I decided I couldn't stand to let her cry, so we settled on
developing a very predictable routine at bedtime, and it has worked well. We
have had our bumpy patches, particularly during illnesses, teething, and major
milestones, but in general my child looks forward to bedtime and naps.

The sign language seems somewhat controversial among our peers, but we are in
the less progressive southeastern US. The common fear is that it will retard
speech. I just wanted to be able to communicate with my child, and it has made
for a pleasant experience so far. She seems to be developing vocbulary at an
above normal rate. I don't necessarily attribute that to signs, but it is at
least one counterexample to the fear of significant speech retardation.

~~~
pchristensen
+1 for healthy sleep habits, happy child. Also recommend Happiest Baby on the
Block (<http://www.amazon.com/o/asin/0553381466/pchristensen-20>)

------
whacked_new
Not a book recommendation, but I suggest playing classical music often :)

~~~
rodrigo
We do that a lot! since pregnancy, in the afternoons, and while bathing her.

------
kirubakaran
Congratulations!

------
brlewis
_Read_ the Ferber sleep book. The details matter.

~~~
comatose_kid
To all those who commented negatively on the book (and especially the person
who voted me down):

Have you actually read it? And have you tried the methods? I have read the
book, and can vouch for its methods. Yes, the baby cries, and you have to let
it cry. It's not easy. But after a while, the baby stops and goes to sleep.
And after a few nights (it took mine ~3 nights, with less crying each night),
they learn to fall asleep by themselves.

Believe me, when you have a baby who needs its parents by its side for hours
before going to sleep, you might view the book differently.

~~~
curi
"don't object to making children cry until you've tried it"

------
curi
I read <http://www.takingchildrenseriously.com/> and its email list. (Note:
website not updated recently.)

I also write about parenting. Try

<http://www.curi.us/archives/list_category/50>

or

<http://www.curi.us/archives/list_category/6>

It's not especially organized and other topics are mixed in. I also write to
the email list above.

