

Co2Stats (YC summer 08) compensates for your site pollution - rokhayakebe
http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/08/14/co2stats-compensates-for-your-sites-pollution/

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coffeemug
I don't get Co2Stats. It's a very cool idea, with a caveat.

If I were to have an online business, I would gladly pay for clean energy
(perhaps even at a small premium) rather than buy energy from an old-style
fossil fuel burning energy company. However, with Co2Stats I have to pay twice
- once to buy energy for my site, and once to put renewable energy into the
grid so that someone else can use it. As much as I want to support renewable
energy companies, I'm not willing to buy energy for someone else.

It seems that the real business problem here is that there are a lot of
companies that do want to buy renewable energy, but can't. How do I power my
home with energy generated by a clean company? If Co2Stats would let me do
that, it could easily become huge. But simply paying a Co2Stats to calculate
my footprint and redirect my money to someone else? I'd rather just donate
that money, or invest it into clean energy.

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fallentimes
I know these guys have gotten crucified on Techcrunch and even a little bit on
HN, but here's something no one is talking about:

CO2stats has more revenue and more profits than all the other YC Summer 2008
companies combined. It's not even close.

Personally, I feel that regardless of political views: if you want to cut down
on something, no matter what it is, you cut down on consumption (e.g. don't
give government rebates, cut government spending).

It is truly the classic American view on things: Don't have enough money? Use
a credit card. Don't want to exercise? Get liposuction. Why worry about things
now when you can worry about them later? Gotta love this country. And of
course this isn't how every American thinks, but based on our debt amounts and
obesity rates, it's how a lot of Americans act.

Unfortunately, my views on prevention aren't widely adhered to and CO2stats
might just work (it already is really), and they can laugh their way straight
to the bank.

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dcurtis
My problem with CO2Stats is that they are sort of slyly dancing around the
truth. The truth is that they do not buy/acquire carbon _offsets_. In fact,
they buy _more_ energy. They just ensure the additional energy was created
cleanly. But what about the devices that that use the clean energy?

This is like saying, "I'll offset your polluting car by building another car
using clean materials." That doesn't physically offset my car, it builds
another whole car (which in itself is wasteful). Now my footprint is
increased, not decreased.

As I understand it, the general theory in the business of conservatism is that
you should literally _offset_ the consumption, not cause more of it. If I use
X amount of energy, I expect a company like CO2Stats to do something to
physically counter the pollution and other environmental impacts that went
into creating X amount of electricity. Like planting trees or buying real
carbon credits or funding research of cold fusion or something.

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fallentimes
Yeah they're selling snake oil IMHO, but if retards will buy the pet rock,
they'll buy this too (they already have).

Even traditional "offsetting" is silly; the science is shaky at best. WE NEED
TO DECREASE CONSUMPTION. I'm clueless as to why no one is admitting this. I
blame Al Gore :P.

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Spyckie
Has anyone said anything positive about this??

I for one will - this is a great idea. People who are looking at the fad
aspect of it are missing the position that the company has.

What these guys have set up is a system that allows them to be the middle man
between companies and green energy. Yes, having a green website may or may not
appeal to the majority of small internet startups out there, but all they need
to do is build up some reputation as a green company. What they've built is
incredibly flexible; you can throw out the 'calculation of your website's
green energy cost' and replace it with anything, really. After they've had a
couple of good months of press coverage and some big corporations using their
service, they then have the perfect position to reshape their website to go
after the hundreds of green opportunities that will come up within the next
few years.

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robfitz
I love the idea also.. Big corporate spends lots of dollars for minor boosts
in image. This offers really clear value to really wealthy customers.

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alex_c
My first reaction to this was extremely negative. My thoughts were probably
along the lines of the Techcrunch comments.

After thinking about it for a bit, I decided that I don't have anything
against CO2Stats itself. What's more, it seems like a pretty obvious idea
(more power to them if they're the first to implement it), and I think it's
pretty likely to succeed.

What really bugs me is the kind of faulty thinking which is what will make it
a success. It's the same kind of thinking which leads to huge unnecessary
cardboard or plastic packaging with a recycling sign on it. It has the
currently fashionable environment-friendly sign on it, therefore it's OK to
consume more!

I guess I'm just not comfortable with the idea of offsetting actually making a
difference. You're still putting that CO2 out there, you just have a shiny
certificate to show that... you're... not? It's basically the same objection
as coffeemug's, just from a different perspective.

Edit: the video on the CO2Stats website actually sums it up nicely. It's about
making your visitors "feel good". It's not very clear to me that it's about
making an actual difference.

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Alex3917
Once the US adopts cap-and-trade, will Co2Stats switch to purchasing carbon
credits instead of renewable energy?

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poronski
It might be a valid business idea, but essentially that's how you milk the
fad.

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ia
i wonder if this is the yc startup that pg mentioned at the hacker meetup
monday night--the one with the idea that initially seemed "kind of crazy". pg?

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SwellJoe
pg has said that of a few YC startups. Justin.TV was the first I know of (and
it did sound pretty damned crazy to start with...now that there are dozens of
imitators, it seems perfectly normal).

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nostrademons
Reddit was also borderline crazy when they came out - I remember thinking
"Interesting idea, but why the hell would anyone use this?" Now a social news
site is about as cliche as you can get.

Being borderline crazy actually seems to be a good indicator of success, as
long as you're a.) not _completely_ crazy and b.) stick around in the game
long enough for other people to come around. I think Tony Wright said as much
in one of his posts here...

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utnick
What is a renewable energy certificate? Who gets the money when I buy one of
those?

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patrickg-zill
P.T. Barnum, Incorporated.

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plusbryan
What a great idea! I'd much prefer to pay for this badge than on that "Hacker
Tested Daily" con badge that appears everywhere. It was smart to include the
supposed consumption of browsers as well. Kudos!

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patrickg-zill
Remember, if you live in Brazil or China, even the stringent Kyoto Protocol
allows you to pollute as much as you want.

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gaika
Have they bought renewable energy certificate for their own site? Yet another
"IAmRich^H^H^H^HGreen" :(

