

Google account disabled for 6+ days. Some thoughts - axod
http://blog.mibbit.com/?p=8

======
Niten
I have been called a retro-grouch for my firm stance against keeping my data
in "the cloud", but this is a perfect example of how the cloud can go wrong.

How do you protect yourself from a similar fate? The way I do it is by
managing all of my data locally on my laptop (and of course making religious,
at-least-once-daily backups of said data). I download all my email using POP3,
from a VPS that I am paying for into fetchmail / procmail / mutt on my laptop.
My address book is managed locally in a YAML database, and my calendar is
managed using flat text files and Remind. Note that none of this precludes
remote access to my data, either; I carry a copy of PuTTY on my USB drive, and
with the appropriate SSH key and/or S/Key password I can access my data,
securely, from anywhere in the world.

That's just one way of going about it, of course; you don't have to go all
Unix-retro to achieve the same peace of mind. The theory is simple: just find
a way to consolidate the master copies of your important data on machines that
are physically under your control, and then make frequent backups of these
machines. If possible, also make sure that you have some sort of service
agreement with the servers you rely upon for email, Web service, XMPP, and so
on. Yes, it is more expensive, and yes it's more difficult than just signing
up for a free GMail account, but your data is worth it.

~~~
wheels
I think there are two questions about the cloud: Do we trust the company? Do
they care?

In this case I don't think anyone's terribly worried about Google not having
backups or dropping off the radar tomorrow, but they pretty obviously don't
care about individual customers.

That can be solved by dealing with a small to medium sized business that has
real interest in keeping you as a customer. We pay all of $10 a month for the
place where our email is hosted, and the customer support has always been a
charm usually responding within an hour and at the longest thusfar, three
hours.

------
thomasmallen
One piece of advice: Keep local copies of all your email. This bit me once
when I needed to make a meeting downtown and only had the address on GMail. I
couldn't get a connection (low signal to noise ratio) and I almost missed the
thing.

Luckily, I conjured up the street number from memory as I glanced at the many
building numbers on the 1700 block of K, and the company I was meeting with
was listed on the matching building's directory.

That evening I connected Thunderbird with GMail (POP) and changed my settings
to delete all mail from the server. I have local copies of everything with the
added benefit that, theoretically, less of my email is floating around
Google's server rooms.

~~~
delackner
You don't have to delete from the server. Gmail supports IMAP, and if you set
Thunderbird to cache the whole account, even if Google locks you out your
entire offline cache is safe (and can be copied into another account if
necessary).

~~~
thomasmallen
Right, but I don't necessarily want alll of my messages vulnerable to
compromise. Once I've deleted it from the server, I don't have to worry about
somebody getting into my account, or the possibility of unscrupulous practices
by Google.

~~~
ivanstojic
In reality, that's not so. If you suspect that Google might be "unscrupulous"
with your data, what makes you so sure that a delete is truly a delete?

There are, essentially, no degrees to trust. You either trust someone or you
don't.

~~~
thomasmallen
That's just not true. Show me one sane person who only operates on two
distinct, unequivocal levels of trust and mistrust.

------
ctingom
I must say, the failure of Google to adequately communicate the reason behind
an account suspension scares me. As someone who depends on Google just as much
day to day, and even sets up Google for Business accounts for some of our
customers, it worries me.

~~~
litewulf
Google for Business gets semi-special treatment in the fact that Google
actually has real info on their customers whereas a random Google account is
sometimes difficult to truly authenticate for.

~~~
davidw
You can't even sell the domain names you purchase with the google for business
thing. Maybe you can if you shell out the money for the 'real' account, but
for the 10$ domain and normal account, as far as I can tell, you are SOL if
you want to sell the domain to someone else:

<http://journal.dedasys.com/2008/09/23/caveat-emptor-dominium>

------
brandong
I'm a "superuser" over on Google Groups to support different Google products
(free schwag...)

This kind of thing happens all of the time. Sometimes it gets resolved,
sometimes it does not. Everytime, it takes longer to fix than it should.

Google does not support any of these services you have mentioned (other than
adwords). Think long and hard about this. If you rely on any of these
services, this same situation could happen to you. Be prepared: Have backups
and a backup plan ready just in case.

------
coliveira
My wife was once in a similar situation: gmail, blogs, contacts, everything
was blocked. After one week they finally unblocked the account. It seems they
have not enough staff to solve these issues.

Or maybe they are trying to get people scared, so they will start paying for
Gmail and similar services just to have better support
([http://www.google.com/support/accounts/bin/answer.py?answer=...](http://www.google.com/support/accounts/bin/answer.py?answer=65430))

------
mattmaroon
Google's profit model relies on a high volume of customers, all of whom they
make a very small amount off of. Thus it's understandable that their customer
support is non-existent. If they had someone to answer the amount of queries
they'd receive from their billion users, they'd be financially unsustainable.

That's one of the many reasons we just pay $8 a month for Exchange hosting.

~~~
axod
I agree... In my case, I'll most likely not spend any more money on adwords
after this, which is a shame.

How do you grow to that many users _and_ provide decent support. Tough
question really.

~~~
mattmaroon
You just can't unless you can somehow get that many users and have a healthy
markup on them. Perhaps Toyota is a good model for that.

Most of good support is eliminating the need for it I suppose.

------
jgrahamc
This is partly why my @jgc.org email is forwarded to gmail and not managed by
Google. I retain control of the domain and the receiving MX which then
forwards to gmail. If gmail were to die I can reroute around it in seconds.

~~~
jbert
I have that set up, but how much of your email comes in to your @gmail.com
address?

If you use gmail as your outgoing email, then the sent emails will have a
Sender: header (and return-path) of your @gmail.com address, even if you set a
role.

If you search gmail for 'to: you@gmail.com' you'll see how much mail is
bypassing your domain.

~~~
bretthoerner
> then the sent emails will have a Sender: header (and return-path) of your
> @gmail.com address

You can setup alternate e-mail addresses in Gmail and tell it to reply with
the one it was sent to. It's still sent off Gmail servers, but with the Sender
changed (so you just setup your SPF to allow Gmail).

> even if you set a role.

What does this mean?

------
rapind
That's unfortunate. I think it'll get resolved soon, but still, what a pain!

I pay for the premium google apps service. I like to think the turnaround will
be pretty quick if I run into any issues like this. I think it's worth it for
imo the best email client and storage around with the least hassle.

I used to use oddpost (paid for that as well), but then they were swallowed by
Yahoo. I can't stand Yahoo's mail. Way too cluttered for my taste.

Email is such an important application for me, day to day, that I have
absolutely no problem paying google a modest yearly fee for their service.
Sure there are plenty of free options out there, but I bet their support is
equally dismal. Good customer support is expensive because there are a lot of
whiny user's out there that also need to be supported. Pay the premium.

------
qwph
Sympathies to the OP, but my general rule for all data: if it doesn't exist in
two places, it doesn't exist. (A lesson I also learned the hard way.)

------
potatolicious
One more reason why I have my own server with a reputable host. Not only can I
configure my spam filters however I want, forward my emails however I please,
keep local and online copies simultaneously... yadi yada, I have full control
over my email.

------
Timothee
It makes me think: what do I like about Gmail?

* the interface (discussions especially)

* the speed

* the search features (and its speed)

I suppose most of it could be recreated on top of a "regular" mail server but
what would be involved?

I'm not saying that would be easy but, wouldn't that be an interesting
offering? (open-source or not actually)

------
socratees
I couldn't imagine myself without gmail even for a day. I made up my mind to
use thunderbird moving further.

------
apsurd
FWIW - I would gladly pay to use gmail (and receive support) ahh business
models are beautiful.

------
dhimes
There is some phishing going on in Google's name. I just tried to alert them
(I just received the email)-- we'll see how they respond.

Phishing email:

<[http://adwords.google.com/select/images/adwords_home/new_log...](http://adwords.google.com/select/images/adwords_home/new_logo.gif>);

Renew Your Account Now!

Dear Member,

This is your official notification from Google Inc. that the service(s) listed
below will be deactivated and deleted if not renewed immediately.

As the Primary Contact, you must renew the service(s) listed below or it will
be deactivated and deleted.

Renew Now your Google AdWords services.
<[http://adwords.google.com.session-27120581839530682797.38412...](http://adwords.google.com.session-27120581839530682797.38412842833861913565.sys80.ru>);

SERVICE: Google AdWords EXPIRATION: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 19:12:37 +0300

Thank you for using Google Inc service. We appreciate your business and the
opportunity to serve you.

Google AdWords Service .

Note : Your Google AdWords Password is NOT your Google Email password! © 2008
Google

\------------------------------------------------------------------ This
message was sent from a notification-only email address that does not accept
incoming email. Please do not reply to this message. If you have any
questions, please visit the Google AdWords Help Centre at
<https://adwords.google.com/support/?hl=en_GB> to find answers to frequently
asked questions and a 'contact us' link near the bottom of the page.
----------------------------------------------------------------

~~~
axod
These have been going for a long time - not the case in my instance, as I
never click on emails like that - they are pretty obviously fake.

~~~
dhimes
That's a relief. Is there a website that has these posted when they appear "in
the wild?" It would be nice to check against the known attacks, and post when
a new one appears.

------
brk
What is the other half of this story?

I don't know anything about the author, but has he done anything to enrage the
G?

If this is truly just a random account disablement, then it would seem that
Google needs to augment their customer support accessibility and procedures.
If the author is/was somehow "competing" with Google on some level, or making
anti-G remarks, I would be curious about such details.

I think there is more to this story.

~~~
axod
I have not done anything I know to be wrong, or even border line.

Also, I've been a long time google supporter and that's why I've used so many
of their products.

Even if someone did make "anti-G remarks" (Which I have not afaik), I don't
think that would be reason to disable their account.

I understand your skepticism - it was exactly my response when I heard it had
happened to some other people a few months ago.

~~~
brk
Thanks for taking the time to reply to my comment. I trust your response,
which means that this is truly an oddly random event, and indicative (IMO) of
Google not being truly ready for things to lose the "beta" icon.

------
RossM
> I swear I've seen this story on HN a week ago where a very nice google
> employee decided to step in and help the guy out. In fact the first
> paragraph was exactly the same as I remembered the bit about Adwords being
> cut off as well as other services.

Edit; knew I saw this on HN - I thought this had been resolved.

As brk said I also think there is more to this. I doubt any service with a
reputation to uphold would just randomly give a block without any detail at
all.

I love Google, I'm a sucker for the whole cloud concept and I think Google is
the place to go for this - they're open, they're free and they're not going to
go away anytime soon. I don't keep my extra confidential documents on Docs and
am sensible enough to make backups - therefore I've got nothing to worry about
in that respect.

~~~
axod
Just make sure you have _everything_ covered. All those sites, _all_ your
data.

It's very easy to say making backups is obvious, but how easy is it to make
backups of adwords keyword lists every time you change them... Maybe your
google account is a simple one with not many services in use.

------
tjmc
Ashamed to admit it (especially here) but I still use Hotmail. Why? You can
use a local client and send/recieve via WebDav.

As a consultant I'm regularly working on site at companies where they have
everything except port 80 blocked. So IMAP, POP and (especially) SMTP are out.
If you want a local copy of your mail in this situation WebDav's really the
best solution.

------
tectonic
I would be happy to pay a monthly / yearly fee to Google in exchange for
support and access guarantees on my account.

------
deepster
Obviously and rather sadly a big drawback of freemium services is lack of
support. Before signing up for these services,you need to ask yourself a
question: How long can I live without accessing my data?

If the answer is "Not very long" then you will have to crack open your wallet.

~~~
azharcs
He says he is a paying customer.

------
fhars
Right there on the home page mibbit.com is asking for Yahoo!Messenger
passwords. So it is essentially a phishing operation, no? Google is right to
disassociate itself from that.

Cf. <http://adactio.com/journal/1357>

------
axod
Update: I just spent a couple of hours getting imap-ssl and smtp-ssl setup
with mysql auth etc on my server. Mail config isn't something I enjoy, but I
guess if you want something done properly...

------
rksprst
Have you thought about trying google apps? The premier version gives you a
phone number to call, 99.9% uptime guarantee, and they handle backups for you.

~~~
axod
I am using google apps - free version for now. I'm not convinced the premium
ver would be any better at support though. I've been calling the adwords
support, as I spend a fair amount with adwords, and they are still "looking
into it".

------
jmtame
Have you any enemies at Google? This just sounds absurd!

~~~
steveplace
If you do some shady stuff in Adwords/Adsense, they can take away your
account.

I'm not implicating the OP in any of this, but that is the most logical
explanation.

------
lst
The real question is: what are you disposed to do / give up _just_ _for_
_convenience_?

Both MS and Google are _all_ after that (so human) _fact_.

------
StrawberryFrog
One online mail service has failed him, and he goes to another online mail
service rather than to Thunderbird, POP and IMAP? Lame.

~~~
axod
I actually am using Apple Mail to access ymail most of the time, with the web
access as a secondary method now - but thanks for your insightful analysis.

------
stcredzero
1) He goes on about how secure his password is, but then admits that someone
got into his secondary email account. His secondary account should be just as
secure. This calls to doubt his security savvy.

2) "loose" instead of "lose" -- always a bad sign

~~~
axod
No one got into my backup email.

My backup email received some "password reset instructions" emails for my main
google account. - eg someone clicked on [forgot my password] on google, and
entered my account name.

Sorry if that wasn't crystal clear.

~~~
petercooper
Just as a data point, I get those all the time. I get tons of legit e-mail for
other people too - I don't get it! :)

