

Thoughts and Observations on Today’s iPhone 5C and 5S Introduction - cuttooth
http://daringfireball.net/2013/09/iphone_5c_5c_event

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stevep98
> Next, it has an intriguing “motion coprocessor”, which I think pretty much
> means you can use your 5S as a fitness tracker with almost no effect on your
> battery life.

My guess is that it's much more than this. It's for augmenting the GPS
location with dead-reckoning, for places where the GPS location doesn't reach
well, such as buildings or on subways, etc.

Accelerometers are already pretty sensitive - enough to provide an improvement
on GPS-only devices. But, this new coprocessor will allow a much higher-
resolution sampling of the accelerometer, and thus the integration (in the
calclus sense) of acceleration into velocity and distance will be much more
precise.

~~~
inoop
I doubt it's for GPS assistance. Motion sensors can be used to suppress Wi-Fi
scanning and/or GPS localization during the roughly 89% of the time humans are
not moving. Remember, phones continually scan for new Wi-Fi APs in the
background even when the screen is off. On modern phones with a/b/g/n chipsets
(32 channels to scan) and energy-expensive CPUs (i.e. Exynos) this takes a
huge amount of power.

Motion sensors themselves are really energy-cheap but the main CPU needs to be
on to sample them, which basically means that if you want continuous mobility
detection you're going to burn through your battery pretty quickly, which is
why it isn't used much. You can do some CPU duty-cycling, but wake-up and
suspend overhead is pretty bad and can amount to as much as 50% of the total
energy spent. I haven't done any measurements on an iPhone, but a GS2 Exynos 4
is a terrible energy drain, while an something like an OMAP 4460 (e.g. Galaxy
Nexus) is much more efficient.

By offloading mobility detection to a separate chip you can bring down the
overhead to tens of mW. The fact that you can use it as a step counter for
jogging is just icing on the cake :)

~~~
sjtgraham
> Motion sensors themselves are really energy-cheap but the main CPU needs to
> be on to sample them, which basically means that if you want continuous
> mobility detection you're going to burn through your battery pretty quickly,
> which is why it isn't used much.

It's a coprocessor not a sensor, so it may operate independently of the CPU as
far as continuously sampling the motion sensors is concerned. Presumably that
requires much less power to do so.

Of course it will used to augment/supplement GPS.

~~~
inoop
I meant that on current phones the main CPU needs to be on, which is why
motion suppression isn't used much. Apple added a separate processor to handle
the motion sensing, thus offloading the main CPU, and saving energy.

> Of course it will used to augment/supplement GPS. > Of course

What do you base this on? Could you give me an example where a separate motion
processor would augment GPS?

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molecule
> Take a look at apple.com today and note which new iPhone appears first the
> 5C, not the 5S. Which phone did they show a commercial for? The 5C.

Which one will have a higher profit margin for Apple? The 5C.

~~~
clarky07
perhaps. everyone assumed coming in to today that the "cheaper" version would
hurt margins. Granted it was priced above expectations, I'm not sure it will
have significantly higher margins.

~~~
bryanlarsen
I think it will have higher relative margins than the 5S but lower absolute
margins than the 5S. But that's just a guess.

But what is relatively assured is that it will have substantially higher
margins than the equivalent in their old strategy, a price reduced 5.

So it's quite likely that the introduction of the 5C will increase Apple's
overall margins rather than decreasing it, as everybody expected.

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hcarvalhoalves
The 5S camera is killer. f/2.2, apparently a great sensor for the size and
120fps video is more than most pocket cameras offer. Manufacturers of point-
of-shoot cameras can pack up and leave if this is a trend.

~~~
sspiff
If lower end smartphones adopt this kind of camera (which I think is unlikely)
then point-and-shoot cameras could have a problem.

However, comparing a $600 iPhone to a $70 point-and-shoot is not really
relevant.

~~~
runn1ng
just a note (for you and for everyone else): stop whining about downvotes.

sometimes you are downvoted. it happens.

but more often than not someone upvotes you again, and then it just look
whiny, espescially if you are second comment on the page (as you are now).

~~~
sspiff
Point taken, removed the whiny bit.

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T-zex
Nokia designers should be proud of themselves for setting a colorful plastic
case trend for the smart phone market and even influencing the iPhone.

~~~
threeseed
Nokia's designer and product managers have nothing to be proud of in its
history.

They let companies like Apple, Samsung etc come in and dominate what was their
industry to own.

~~~
drill_sarge
I have a Nokia 3210 as backup phone which still works flawless today. Or an
E-7, still working. Most of the other phones I had went defunct at some point
or the non-replaceable battery went dead and new phone was cheaper than
getting it replaced and so on. Thats something to be proud of. Ok, maybe not
for the product managers ;)

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josteink
> Yes, it’s plastic, but there’s nothing cheap about it.

Hard back-pedalling on plastic observed.

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nwh
They seriously need to fix their international pricing. For a 64GB model it's
$913AUD to buy an iPhone 5s in the US, $1129AUD to buy one in Australia. What?

~~~
bowlofpetunias
VAT, import tariffs etc. Apple doesn't need to fix anything.

~~~
nwh
There's GST in Australia rather than VAT (10% vs 17.5%), and last year the
prices were almost at parity.

~~~
recoil
Apple don't trust the AUD not to drop further than it already has in the last
3 months.

~~~
Jam0864
What a laughable excuse. It's been this way for years.

~~~
cremnob
Apple will adjust pricing based on currency. If the Australian currency is
getting weaker it may be because the emerging markets that it depends on are
seeing turmoil in their currencies because of the prospect of Fed QE tapering.

[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/4934147/Apple-
up...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/4934147/Apple-ups-price-of-
Mac-computers-as-exchange-rate-bites.html)

~~~
Jam0864
Apple has overcharged both in Australia and Europe for decades, even when the
currency has been strong. It's simply because they believe that people who
live there will stomach a larger price. It's probably true. It's still
infuriating.

It results in funny cases where a Nexus 4 can be 1/3 the price of an iPhone 5.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Just fly up to Hong Kong over a holiday and buy an iPhone there. Prices are
cheap, and its what we used to do in Mainland China before (now, iPhone
pricing is about 20% higher than the USA sticker, which probably mostly due to
VAT).

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halfninety
My opinion is the exact opposite. I don't think the 5C is an appealing middle
tier, I believe it's a dumb middle tier, and maybe intentionally so, to make
the premium offering stand out more.

1\. If it's intended to be appealing, why call it "5 Cheap"? Okay, Apple
didn't call it "5 Cheap", but everyone thinks so, and in marketing, what
consumers think is the truth. Additionally, Apple didn't try to correct people
when everyone thought it would be cheap. Who is gonna buy a phone that is
"cheap" but not cost effective?

2\. The 5C isn't that appealing against 5. Yes, a new product is a new
prodcut, but a flagship is a flagship. In emerging markets, why do people
spend a month's salary for a phone? Because they want to show off to ohters,
or at least so that people can't show off to them. Which one do you think have
more "show off" power? The previous year's flagship (people don't know when
you bought it) that looks identical to this year's flagship, or the "cheap"
alternative?

3\. The colorful back is suitable for really cheap devices, not seemingly
cheap but actually expensive ones. They are liked by young people, mostly
students, and new graduates. They don't have much money, and prefer cheaper
devices. The 5C isn't cheap. Premium products are never colorful, for a
reason.

4\. The 5C is a worse product than the 5, technically. It probably has only
about 10% larger battery capacity, but is 18% thicker and heavier. I can
imagine how many cheap materials are used to make that happen.

5\. If you look at the big picture, the trend is smaller and smaller
differences between generations of iPhones. And because of the diminishing
differences, people are more and more likely to choose an older generation for
a cheaper price. According to one source[1], the 4S commanded 90% of all
iPhone sales immediately after launch, and almost 75% a year later, before the
5 was launched. The numbers are 70% and 50% for the 5. Unfortunately, the
difference between 5S and 5 is far smaller than that between 5 and 4S.
Therefore, the appeal of the 5, if it were not discontinued, would only
surpass that of the 4S in the past year, and maybe even able to seriously
challenge the 5S in sales. The problem of the middle tier is not that it's not
appealing, it's maybe that it's too appealing, making the flagship device not
able to stand out. Maybe Apple acted this turn not by improving the quality of
the flagship (they can't), but by lowering the quality of the middle tier.

6\. If the 5C could generate similar earnings per unit as the 5S, why is it
bad for Apple if it eats too much into the 5S's market? Because the success of
the flagship relates closely to Apple's brand image, and Apple's success is
closely tied to its image. People don't care about the middle tier, the
success of the flagship is what reflects the company's technical prowess, and
this is a battlefield in which Apple can't afford to lose.

I guess the sales numbers will tell who is right:), whether the 5C performs
better than the 4S did in the last turn.

[1] [http://macdailynews.com/2013/07/22/iphone-5-accounts-for-
hal...](http://macdailynews.com/2013/07/22/iphone-5-accounts-for-half-of-
apples-smartphone-sales-iphone-4s-takes-30/)

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r00fus
The 5C is important for one big reason: China. I expect the "unlocked" price
won't reflect the kind of subsidies and discounts that China Mobile and Apple
can give to make it affordable for their customers.

~~~
simonh
I think the "C stands for China" is fair, but I don't expect Apple to break
with their multi-decade tradition of maintaining the highest margins that are
compatible with a viable market presence. Yes margins will be lower in aching
than elsewhere, but they are not going to even attempt to compete with Android
for market share because it would be utterly pointless.

The Chinese mass market is dominated by extremely poor bargain bucket Android
devices with invisibly thin margins that can barely scroll a web page. It is
true that Samsung has a strong presence over there and Apple needs to deal
with that, but the premium end of the market is big enough for both to do
well. The kind of people who are likely to prefer an iPhone over there aren't
as price sensitive as the average and charging them less just to also sell a
few more units down market would just be leaving money on the table. That's
not something Apple has a habit of doing.

~~~
Tyrannosaurs
There's enough money in China that Apple can make some in roads but a bulk of
the phones selling there are sub $200 (off contract) non-Google Androids. The
5C isn't going to take anything out of that market.

Rather boringly I suspect the C stands for colour (or color if you must).

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greyman
I am curious to see how those two will sell. I can't imagine myself to buy the
not-so-cheap 5C, when for 100 eur more, I can have faster processor (which
will be important thing for iOS7), much better camera, non-plastic body and
other things.

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nagarjun
I think the iPhone 5S Fingerprint Reader is revolutionary because it is
invisible: [http://t.co/AfQSFqAjBy](http://t.co/AfQSFqAjBy).

