
Tableau Software Threatened? Rival Growing at 70% Just Raised $103M - Varcht
https://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2018/12/10/tableau-software-threatened-rival-growing-at-80-just-raised-103m/#6ba06e92108e
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georgewfraser
My company shares a lot of customers with Looker, and from my point of view
there’s a couple reasons why they’re so successful.

First, Looker has two layers. The dashboard layer gives you tables, charts and
filters. The explore layer allows you to go in and build your own pivot tables
off the same underlying models. No other BI tool has built an explore layer
that’s as successful in practice as Looker’s.

Second, the underlying model of both layers is written in code and under
version control. This probably makes sense to most HN readers but in the BI
world this is very contrarian. If you ask most business users who make BI
purchasing decisions, version control and pull requests are the last thing
they’ll ask for. But it turns out it’s exactly what you need to maintain a
complex BI deployment.

~~~
numbsafari
The version control and pull request design is exactly why I've selected
Looker. LookML enables the power of the explore functionality as well.

Looker's visualizations, however, are very weak when compared to the
competition. It's been their weakness for years now, and they've really failed
to address it.

One aspect of Looker that I've also generally enjoyed is their on-boarding and
support processes. They do a superb job at this and I feel like they should be
a model for startups selling into B2B.

~~~
georgewfraser
I agree that their viz is weak. I comfort myself by saying that this is the
easy part and they'll surely fix it _eventually_...still waiting after two
years.

~~~
groj
I think the community can have a big impact here, there are so many libraries
that make it easy to add custom visuals. Specifically, vega is incredible
[https://vega.github.io/](https://vega.github.io/) and there is a port for
Looker [https://github.com/groodlooker/vega-
lite](https://github.com/groodlooker/vega-lite)

~~~
cuchoi
Have you used that port?

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manigandham
Tableau is the best at getting non-technical users to be instantly productive,
and is completely unmatched in pure analytical abilities and visualizations.
They aren't standing still here either.

However Tableau has absolutely screwed up their evolution into a cloud-based
service. The current single-user desktop software with client/server design is
painful and archaic, and the Tableau cloud is just a hosted server run on
undersized hardware. They are losing a lot of business renewals because of
this, even if the consultancy and enterprise deals will keep going for awhile.

~~~
rchaud
> Tableau is the best at getting non-technical users to be instantly
> productive

I keep hearing that this is Tableau's big selling point. And yet, as exactly
the kind of "non-technical" user coming from the world of Excel, it has been
astounding to me just how user-unfriendly Tableau is.

Want to create a line chart? No clear way of doing it other than messing
around with Tableau's implementation of pivot tables, randomly dropping
metrics and dimensions into boxes until it resembles a chart.

Want to not guess blindly and follow Tableau's tutorials? Prepare to sign in
on every single video tutorial page. Opened multiple tabs? You'll have to sign
in on each one. Refreshing the page won't do anything.

I have no idea how they compete with something like PowerBI.

~~~
manigandham
There are 2 axis in the chart area or at the top of the window where you can
just drag the fields you're interested in. It automatically makes a chart type
that fits and you can change it with a click. Did that not work for your data?

PowerBI has no Mac app and supports less data sources, with all the same
frustrations of client/server design.

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ineedasername
Not really a threat. this article is mostly about Looker, which is a very
different product with a significantly higher entry level price tag. Tableau
on the other hand is part of the curriculum in many information science
programs in colleges, and is significantly embedded in the enterprise sector.
it will take significant stagnation on Tableua's part or a black swan type of
event to dislodge them any time soon.

~~~
zhobbs
"it will take significant stagnation on Tableua's part"

As a former customer of Tableau, it feels like this has already happened
right? I worked at a company where many teams used it, and there were zero
defenders of Tableua when it came time to decide whether to renew...it's a
mess, especially on Mac.

~~~
bsg75
Is there an alternative on Mac?

Any tool that has a purely web based design UI is not limited to an OS, so the
alternatives would have to supply a native Mac design tool as Tableau does.

~~~
harrisreynolds
We are working on a cross-platform solution at Chartly. We are still early but
can already create dashboards more quickly than what I've seen Tableau do. See
[https://chart.ly/](https://chart.ly/) for details! :-)

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mwexler
This is another "Forbes Contributor" post. This means that it's just a blog
post, though, admittedly, Cohan is a smart guy.

Does anyone else think Forbes should do more to separate volunteer content
from editorially directed and reviewed journalistic content? Or is this just a
moot point since folks don't trust "Forbes" as a brand?

It feels like, to me, someone saying "I went to Stanford" in a conversation
because they walked on the campus. Just because Forbes hosts the content
doesn't mean it's at the same quality as a true Forbes spawned story.

Since the Forbes.com front page appears to now be almost 3/4 contributors, I
guess it's working for them. Still feels wrong.

~~~
stevecalifornia
Forbes is cashing in their brand name, built over a long period of time, for
quick wins. It's sad that they don't value their legacy.

~~~
tvanantwerp
Over the long term, this will destroy their brand. I don't take forbes.com any
more seriously than I do medium.com, and I doubt I'm alone in that.

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sevensor
I'm not sure the analysis front-end is really where the money is at. There are
lots of industries that have trouble getting their data to a place where it
can be analyzed at all. I know some very successful companies here in flyover
country that picked a sector where this is a problem and made a business of
fixing it.

~~~
thenaturalist
Would you mind sharing some examples? I'm in the Business Intelligence space
and always interested in what is available for integration & ETL.

~~~
sevensor
Ag is huge, as you might expect from flyover country. Pipelines. Marketing
data.

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joshdance
Better (less clickbaity) headline:

Looker raises 103 million in a series E to compete in enterprise BI.

~~~
capkutay
I really hate the 'This startup's revenue grew at x%!'

Like what does that actually mean? For all we know they went from $100k to
$170k in revenue while raising $100 million dollars. It could either be very
impressive or just lame click bait to inflate a company they invested way too
much money in.

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madamelic
Forbes seems to be 95% ads now.

Not just the content. I went on the page and a huge 3/4 page banner scrolled
my view, then another popped into the side, then Forbes had a pop over asking
for my email.

Yikes!

~~~
rchaud
Places like Forbes, Inc and Huffpost appear to exist solely for content
writers to use their logo on their portfolio websites under the heading
"Published In: ".

~~~
jjtheblunt
Well they're also "owned" by lobbyist-style groups. HuffPost is clearly
(ludicrously) pro Democrat, Forbes anti-Apple, and so on. It's close to
amusing.

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olivermarks
Growing a startup '70%' is very different to running a publicly listed global
company

'...Looker is trying to become cash flow positive -- and its revenues are
growing faster than its headcount. "We have visibility to cash flow break even
over the next couple of years. We plateaued in spending. We now have 600
employees and expect to add 200 in 2019. We are seeing our cash burn rate
decline," he explained.'

~~~
kgc
How can they add so many employees and have costs decline? Are employees not
their majority cost?

~~~
olivermarks
making more revenue

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thebiglebrewski
We use Looker and it's amazing. Comparing it with Tableau was laughable for
people used to modern SaaS tools. Tableau was so far behind...

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mjirv
Has anyone used Arcadia Data (the other company mentioned in the article) and
have thoughts on it? I work in BI and had never heard of it before reading
this.

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bradhe
Just exited a company the was competitive to Tableau and Looker. The BI space
is insanely competitive, the lock in is very deep, and there are a thousand
small players swimming in the wake of Tableau, Looker, PowerBI, and a few
other "owners" of the category.

Looker doesn't threaten Tableau. It doesn't need to--at least for now. The
space is growing at a crazy rate.

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dcposch
Surprised nobody here mentioned Mode Analytics.

Unlike Looker or Tableau, it requires users to know SQL.

That said: if you're an org where the business people know SQL or are willing
to learn--Mode is clean, simple, and super powerful.

My company had a great experience with this. Our COO was super proficient with
Excel. I showed him basic SQL, he loves it and has learned quickly. The jump
from Excel power user to SQL user is totally doable, and probably most people
making custom reports are already at least in the former category!

Additionally, a few of us have substantial Pandas experience: Mode makes it
trivial to go from SQL to a Jupyter like notebook w Pandas, Matplotlib,
seaborn etc all already there--no need for Python version or dependency hell.
Zero devops at any layer below the raw datastore (MySQL / Redshift / etc).

It's really nice. You write code purely against open standards--SQL, pandas
etc. Looker uses a proprietary query language, LookML. I am not tempted to go
learn it.

~~~
thongda
Not the same level, Tableau is super strong in visualization, Looker is about
Data Modeling, the new language is not that hard, but the most valuable thing
is data model and explore

------
NicoJuicy
Anyone checked PowerBI from Microsoft? I think it's a great BI solution that
isn't widely known yet.

Example:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qgam9M8I0xA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qgam9M8I0xA)

~~~
itslennysfault
Isn't widely known? It was the top rated BI solution by Gartner in 2017 and
2018. Full disclosure I used to work on it, and when I left we had over a
million users so some people might have heard of it.

[2017]([https://powerbi.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/gartner-
positions-m...](https://powerbi.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/gartner-positions-
microsoft-as-a-leader-in-bi-and-analytics-platforms-for-ten-consecutive-
years/))

[2018]([https://powerbi.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/gartner-
recognizes-...](https://powerbi.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/gartner-recognizes-
microsoft-as-a-leader-in-analytics-and-bi-platforms-for-11-consecutive-
years/))

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harrisreynolds
There is lots of opportunity still to innovate in this space. We are focusing
on making it super easy to create great looking charts and dashboards really
easily at Chartly [1].

Personally I am surprised by lots of the "state of the art" options out there
where the result is EITHER ugly or HARD TO USE.

We still have a ways to go, but you can create good looking, interactive
dashboards with our platform very easily.

Here is an example of a dashboard with NFL data:
[https://chart.ly/dashboards/nfl-stats-
dashboard](https://chart.ly/dashboards/nfl-stats-dashboard)

[1] [https://chart.ly](https://chart.ly)

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qwertycrackers
My company uses Looker a lot. It's fairly good. My only complaint is that its
web-native interface makes it AWFULLY slow to do the simplest things.

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trhway
Sounds like IPO prep.

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CryoLogic
Just a question on wording, but doesn't 70% imply currentRevenue * .7. Whereas
they really mean 170% aka currentRevenue * 1.7?

~~~
raquo
_Growth_ is expressed as % _over_ the previous period, not _of_ previous
period, so 70% is the right number in this context.

