

Fast-tracking: Alternatives to college - wyclif
http://radar.oreilly.com/2010/06/alternatives-to-college.html

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hazmattron
As a current college student in CS, I can see how this approach could be
valid. A lot of what is taught in classes I could definitely learn on my own
initiative, BUT

\- at least in my department, diversity is emphasized. Without being required
to take classes in the more obscure arenas of computer science, I may never
learn methods of thought that will come in handy eventually.

\- a huge part of college is the "experience", being in an environment of
people who are not all learning the same things. This brings in perspectives
from different disciplines, which will help in working with a variety of
situations and with a variety of people down the line. And flexibility is
everything, especially in CS.

\- making connections is important. I'm meeting and studying with many people
who I could easily see working with later in life (people in CS, and other
fields as well).

I think, while a strictly vocational training program could address these
things to a certain degree, a college education does so much more
appropriately.

...or at least I hope so. College is EXPENSIVE.

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siglesias
An American liberal arts education is about way more than acquiring particular
technical skills; it's about learning how to analyze a space of competing
claims and discovering novel ways of combining them to produce insight. In
English courses we would sit around and discuss the various ethnic and
historical factors that led to particular narratives. We wouldn't just derive
mathematical functions in college, we would derive ideas themselves, and then
analyze how we came to derive those. I guarantee that these are the same kinds
of conversations that lead to truly revolutionary technological ideas and
spawn countless brilliant business decisions.

Sure, one can learn how to solve various technical problems on ones own, but
where will one get the skills to actually define problems in the first place?
(hint: you can't get it by watching lecture videos, not totally)

~~~
yesimahuman
Completely agree. Not to belabor the point (this topic comes up on HN very
often), but college was such an eye opening experience for me, that I feel
like our world would be a better and more enlightened place if everyone had
the chance to go. It's not just about learning to program (which you can do on
your own and on the job), but about challenging your "beliefs" and opinions
(which you might find are simply wrong).

Maybe you can learn all of this outside of class, but being _forced_ to
challenge your world view is a powerful thing.

Ignorance is one of the biggest problems in this world.

~~~
chc
I'm not sure I understand. In what way did college force you to challenge your
worldview that reading a lot of books, magazines and Web sites would not?

~~~
yesimahuman
By making me read a lot of books, magazines, and web sites!

Seriously, I know I never would have read any of the stuff I read in class,
and I can bet most people wouldn't have either.

Now, we certainly aren't arguing that it's too expensive to get this
experience. I would completely agree with that.

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mkramlich
that's easy: using your brain. self-study. Wikipedia. Lots of other stuff on
the Internet. a library. experimentation. exploration. play. try/fail.
reading. getting mentors. building things. taking things apart. teaming up
with others on collaborative projects, both locally and geo-distributed.
acquiring friends with similar interests and learning from one another.

all much faster, cheaper, and more flexible, with less makework, and a pace
and curriculum that is more attuned to _your_ unique needs, desires, abilities
and circumstances. oh and less likelihood you'll start a career in debt.

works for all fields equally well? of course not. but for some, it rocks.

also, i have a startup in this space so I'm making a bet on the validity and
value of this kind of approach.

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berrow
Formal CS education has many merits, but listening to the interview made me
realize that aptitude, motivation and a conducive training environment can go
an incredibly long way in producing competent developers. Countries like India
have _very_ large populations to draw on and the seed costs there for such an
approach are very low. I am not sure if the same method would work so well in
'developed' countries where there is such a strong 'you need a degree'
mindset.

~~~
wmf
There's probably a big market in the US for efficiently retraining college
graduates who got the wrong degree (as long as they can swallow their pride).

~~~
InclinedPlane
There's probably a big market in the US for efficiently retraining college
graduates who got the "right" degree (especially CS).

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starkfist
Places like Anderson Consulting and Perot Systems used the same approach back
in the 80s and 90s.

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tkahn6
Essentially what he has created is a vocational school for programming.

I love programming. I'm self-taught. But when I started studying the
mathematical aspects of it - actual computer science - a whole new world
opened up to me (and I've barely scratched the surface).

There's a great quote on the back cover of _Elements of Programming_ :

"Yet so-called software engineers often practice their art with little or no
idea of the mathematical underpinnings of what they are doing. And then we
wonder why software is notorious for being delivered late and full of bugs,
while other engineers routinely deliver finished bridges, automobiles,
electrical appliances, etc., on time and with only minor defects." ~ Martin
Newell (Adobe)

I believe one can be successful without a mathematical understanding of
programming or computer science but I don't believe one can do anything truly
innovative without it.

Also if anyone has any experience with the Virginia Tech CS program I'd be
interested to talk with you.

~~~
greenlblue
You went about it the right way. If you had studied theory first and then
written solutions to some toy problems to demonstrate part of some "theory"
then you would have been turned off by the whole ordeal.

