

Today Apple announced the death of the optical drive in its laptops - dotBen
http://benmetcalfe.com/blog/2010/10/today-apple-announced-the-death-of-the-optical-drive-in-its-laptops/

======
mjfern
This move is consistent with Apple's corporate strategy; a transition away
from desktop computing and physical media, to a range of thin devices
accessing online media via the cloud. The elimination of the optical drive
facilitates smaller devices, and further establishes the importance of
connectivity and online media, where Apple is well positioned with its growing
collection of cloud services: iTunes, the App Store, the new OS X App Store,
and so on.

On a side note, this is further bad news for Sony and Blu-ray. The shift from
physical to online video is happening much more quickly than most expected.
Sony invested billions of dollars into Blu-ray to win the battle against HD
DVD, anticipating at least a decade of future royalties. I am certain the
expected returns on this investment will never be realized.

~~~
ookblah
ehh, until we can stream blu-ray quality videos over the internet i doubt it's
going anywhere soon.

~~~
pak
The wireless Internet, no less. The Air doesn't have an Ethernet port and many
devices in this category are commonly paired with (3,4)G data modems for
mobility beyond the range of your own hotspot.

I don't think there's a decent way of getting 40 GB of movie onto an Air
without plugging something in... and USB memory is still too costly in that
range.

~~~
chroma
802.11g or n is faster than most consumer Internet connections. Nobody's
suggesting streaming HD movies over the cell network... yet.

Blu-ray discs are 25-50GB, but they contain lots of stuff besides the movie
(bonus material and other stuff). Dropping extra features, using newer codecs,
and slightly decreasing encoding quality can pare a 720p movie down to 5-6GB.
Over a 20Mbit connection, that's a 30-40 minute download. Definitely
streamable.

In fact Apple, Netflix, and Amazon all do this already. They sacrifice some
quality compared to blu-ray, but unlike blu-ray, you don't have to transport a
physical disc to your home. Even though blu-ray is higher quality, you have to
ship discs or travel to a store to get them. Video on demand is so much more
convenient, and the quality is only going to get better as connection speeds
and codecs improve.

~~~
alextgordon
_Over a 20Mbit connection, that's a 30-40 minute download. Definitely
streamable._

Unless you're in Korea, 20Mbit connections are far from commonplace. And in
many countries download caps are the norm, which would preclude watching more
than a handful of movies a month.

~~~
chroma
I used 20Mbit in the example because that's what I have. I'm on Comcast, which
has a soft cap of 250GB/month. I'd have to watch a movie every day to get
close to their limit. A 10Mbit connection would double the download time to
60-80 minutes, which is still fast enough to stream.

~~~
alextgordon
Here in the UK there's a large variance, but caps start at 10GB and those in
the region of 40GB are commonplace (there is also a good selection of
unlimited providers). And IIRC the average connection speed is 5Mbps, but
again many people have 2Mbps or slower.

International internet infrastructure has a _long_ way to go before optical
media is anywhere near irrelevant.

------
mthoms
Looking a little deeper one can only conclude that the launch of a desktop App
store coinciding with the death of the optical media drive is no coincidence.

You don't _need_ an optical drive because of the App store, and you _must use_
the App store (and iTunes) because there is no optical drive.

Simply brilliant.

Edit: Downvotes? Perhaps the tone makes it sound too much like a conspiracy
which is not what I meant to convey. It's a logical move for Apple and their
customers (even if they might not know it yet).

~~~
xenophanes
You seem to have overlooked that CDs and DVDs aren't the main way to get
programs now. You can download them from the internet.

~~~
mthoms
And with respect, you seem to have overlooked that average users (ie. not
people who read HN) still buy millions of dollars of boxed
software/games/movies yearly.

Sure downloading software was/is the inevitable future, getting rid of the
optical drive just gives the average Joe the little push he needs to get with
it quicker.

~~~
ubernostrum
None of my Mac-owning, non-programming, non-HN-reading friends buy software
that comes on discs in boxes.

~~~
mthoms
Anecdotal evidence. Irrelevant.

Edit: Truly confused about the downvotes (and upvotes for parent). Since when
is anecdotal evidence a _good_ supporting argument in a discussion on HN?

~~~
apl
It's not good evidence, but it's definitely not _irrelevant_ either. Don't be
childish!

By the way, I can confirm that observation. Now we're at N=2.

~~~
dododo
the plural of anecdote is not data.

from 2003, <http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-110814573.html>

    
    
      Once the decision to purchase is made, 78 percent of the 
      participants said they wanted to use the product right 
      away and therefore choose to immediately download the 
      software. When purchasing CD-ROM versions, specifically, 
      46 percent requested delivery within a few days.
    

they don't mention sample size and perhaps have an agenda.

~~~
jokermatt999
The plural of anecdote is not data indeed, and what was provided was anecdotal
evidence. However, was there any evidence provided to the contrary (users _do_
buy software on CD)? I think the reason the anecdote was upvoted was due to
the lack of supporting evidence for the contrary conclusion. I'll give you
games and movies (although Steam seems to be making great inroads toward
making CD games obsolete), but I sincerely doubt that the majority of Mac
software is purchased on CD and not through the internet.

------
stevederico
I really don't see the point of an optical drive in a laptop, not to mention
optical media. All the software and media I consume comes in a digital
download format. If it is your only machine and you absolutely need to burn a
cd, then a simple USB external will do the trick. Also, you can always setup a
bootable partition on a USB flash drive. Honestly, I have been waiting for
this day to come for years. I can't wait until blu Ray and video games via
optical media die too. Thank you apple.

~~~
Empedocles99
Yeah, I really hate those non-digital optical media that all my software is
on.

------
barrkel
I expect this to also mark the beginning of what will in the future be seen as
a hole in history: a time when software was downloaded on demand, and
consequently lost to time, because companies were too ephemeral, and the
software bits too centralized, to survive through redundant copies.

~~~
tomjen3
Unlikely - I had 4 year old cds that I couldn't read because they had degraded
too much.

So this is already an issue.

~~~
barrkel
But not everyone keeps all their old software on the original CDs. This is the
point: the decentralization of the distribution mechanism meant that everybody
was free to use different methods of storing them. Even if everybody was
restricted to keeping stuff on the original CDs, the chances of _all_ CDs
failing is a lot lower than any single one failing.

FWIW, I don't have any CDs (including cheap CD-Rs burnt over 12 years ago)
that I can no longer read in any CD drive; some aren't readable by some
drives, but they are readable by other drives. But I've since moved the small
amount of data on them (and it is small, by today's measurements) to my file
server, which is both RAIDZ and backed up remotely.

------
Groxx
Not going to miss it. OSes should be distributed on USB keys _anyway_
(goodbye, scratches), and Apple sells a solid external USB DVD-RW for $80 -
more than worth it for the better battery life and cheaper, smaller, lighter
laptops.

~~~
TeHCrAzY
Microsoft did this for windows 7, you could purchase online, download, run a
small program which would setup the usb stick with the required files + make
it bootable. Worked flawlessly for me.

~~~
mzl
Microsoft has had small download managers for their software when delivered
from MSDN Academic Alliance for quite some time. Unfortunately, I could never
get a copy of Windows to use, since I only had access to Linux and Mac
computers. If it had been a normal download, I would probably have installed
my free copy of Windows on some computer.

~~~
LaGrange
Last time I tried it worked in Wine with no problems.

~~~
mzl
Nice to know. Last time I tried (about one and a half years ago) it didn't.

~~~
LaGrange
For me it was about two years, but one aannoying thing I kind-of-remember was
that the app demanded the IE control (somehow emulated via Firefox in Wine,
but requiring additional install - automatically suggested by Wine, but
still).

It definitely wasn't the most sensible DRM of all time. Even more annoying
because of it's uselessness. I never had a problem with ordering additional
downloads for MSAA software.

------
apl
I'm amazed by the fact that Apple keeps neglecting the software side of "the
cloud." New MBAs? Great; they look like fine little machines, perfectly suited
for the transition towards server-side computing.

But _MobileMe_? An odd mixture of USB- and web-based syncing across devices?
Come on, guys. You're not even trying.

------
frou_dh
I welcome it as long as external optical drives remain supported.

Fill the space with battery.

------
ditoa
To be fair I have not used a CD or DVD since 2006! I use Windows which I
installed from a USB flash memory drive which I made after downloading the
Windows 7 (and before that Vista) ISO from MSDN. All software I need I
download (Office, Visual Studio, etc.). I have not even burnt a disc since
back then either. Like the floppy it just sort of became unneeded as there
were easier ways to access the data (faster, greater capactity, easier to
reuse). I used to backup to DVD every week but I bought two external HDD to
backup too now. I keep one in a small fireproof safe and the other next to my
computer. Easier than burning a DVD and gives about the same level of
protection. My backups only ever get bigger as I add to them (holiday
pictures, video, etc.) and HDD increase in size quicker than optical media, it
may cost more actual cash (I have never worked it out) but it costs a lot less
in time. Optical media has been dead to me for a long time.

~~~
subsection1h
> I keep one in a small fireproof safe and the other next to my computer.

No off-site backups?

~~~
ditoa
I have off-site backups of the _very_ important things (personal documents,
wedding pictures, etc.) at my mothers house (in their safe) and my safety
deposit box with my bank. My bank is only 15 minutes away so adding to it
isn't a problem at all, my mothers is a couple hundred miles away so whenever
I go to visit (normally every other month) I take a backup. Again I use an
external HDD (although a smaller 2.5" drive) for both my mothers and my SDB
with photocopies of original documents, etc.

It all comes down to evaluating the risk and value of loss verses the effort.
Would I be upset if my house burned down and my safe didn't protect my HDD
well enough that I list my family holiday photos to Disney World in 2003? Sure
but it wouldn't be the end of the world. People still lose _everything_ when
their house burns down who do not store things digitally/offsite which is
probably >99% of people in the real world. However if my house burns down and
my safe fails I have all of my really important things in two off-site
locations a fair distance apart. Is it perfect? No, but it is as close as I
can be bothered to make the effort for. With services like Flickr and Picasa
Web things like pictures and video are easier to "backup" online, Google Docs
for important documents, etc. Archiving things via Gmail/Hotmail, etc. This
gives me a way to store copies of those holiday pictures at Disneyworld
(albeit in a lower quality than I have backed up) as well as share them with
family more easily.

------
dingle_thunk
This isn't the first MacBook Air released... The previous one didn't have an
optical drive either. Little laptops never have them - EEE PCs, Librettos,
etc. This article is complete non-news.

------
Splines
I suppose it's the inexorable march of technology moving forward, but in
computers that I've used that have been without optical drives, it seems a
little too easy to paint yourself into a corner.

If booting off a USB stick becomes common-place, I would have less to worry
about. I know it's possible, but in the machines I've had to do it on, it's
definitely non-standard. In those instances I've felt like I was back in the
days of DOS. The talk of DRM-ed USB sticks is also disconcerting; dealing with
DRM while trying to revive a machine is not something I look forward to.

~~~
dotBen
_I know it's possible, but in the machines I've had to do it on, it's
definitely non-standard._

USB booting is pretty common in most modern bios's, however don't forget we're
talking about Apple here, where they control the entire stack.

Booting off external drive on Mac (power on + option key) has been in place
for many generations of their hardware. It's definitely patchy in Windows
land, esp with net books.

------
gamble
It's going to be a very slow death. Still, I look forward to the day I can buy
a MBP with no optical drive and an Air-sized Flash stick in place of the SSD.

~~~
gry
In 1998, Apple removed the floppy drive from the iMac and extended to all
their products.

In 2008, Apple removed optical drives from the MacBook Air. People concede
this will extend to all their products.

The optical death will be faster than the floppy, that's for sure. I'm
curious, what's next?

~~~
csixty4
We'll find out in 2018 apparently.

~~~
Groxx
I'm voting for keyboard.

Just because I don't see how they could do it while still keeping it nice to
type on. And of all companies, Apple seems likely to do so _successfully_ if
anyone is even capable of doing so.

And if it _is_ possible, I want to see what the heck it would be, and who
would see it coming? I mean, heck, they already went to the _opposite_ of what
people kept saying they needed on their mice / trackpads - now there's _no_
button.

~~~
InclinedPlane
I'm voting that keyboards will be around for as long as there is a physical
input mechanism of any sort. The throughput and flexibility with keyboards is
just too great to get rid of completely.

~~~
Groxx
Precisely why I want to see someone successfully supplant it. We're so wired
into thinking we need a keyboard, that it's nigh-ideal, that I really want to
see something better because I can't think of what it could possibly be.

------
lancerp
It's about time. With Steam, iTunes, Netflix, and Amazon VOD all major reasons
to use optical drives have become weaker. Even for backing up, it makes far
more sense to use a hard drive than cd-r's.

You don't need the appstore even if you go driveless, you need an internet
connection.

------
alanstorm
If this ends up becoming an industry trend it has some interesting
repercussions for the music distribution industry. The combination of a
compact disc's unencrypted contents plus an optical CD drive in almost every
computer really helped push the ubiquity of digital music unencumbered by DRM.
To consumers any DRM system seemed like a bigger hassle than dropping a CD in
the drive, ripping the bits and then converting them to MP3s.

We're years away from this, but if a majority of computers don't have an
optical drive to rip CDs then the average consumer loses this non-download
path to digital music. That probably emboldens DRM advocates, helps Apple's
music download business, and will effect countless other things that are
hard/impossible to predict.

~~~
derefr
The only reason Apple would consider this is that iTMS is already such a large
part of the music distribution market (and likewise iTMS+Netflix for movie
distribution) that their user-base doesn't put real plastic discs into
computers much at all any more. I bet the ratio for the average Mac user of
iTMS songs+movies downloaded, to CDs+DVDs ripped, has been on a steady decline
for years, and when they do this it's because they'll have decided that it's
finally crossed some inflection point.

By the time Macs ship universally without optical drives, the idea of getting
music off of a CD and onto your computer will be as backwards-seeming as
getting video off of a VHS and onto a DVD. Sure, it's possible, and you might
want to do it for things with sentimental value and out-of-print oldies, but
in both cases it's way easier to just bring your old tapes (discs) to a media
shop whose service include conversions, than it would be to find the equipment
to do it on your own.

------
lukifer
I replaced my optical with a 2nd hard drive a year ago and never looked back.
The only problem it's caused me was having to jump through absurd hoops to get
Boot Camp working, since the Windows installer only wants to talk to an actual
disc on the internal ATA bus.

~~~
dotBen
Is this on a Mac? I'm guessing it's a desktop, or how did you manage to
replace the optical disk on an apple laptop?

~~~
lukifer
Yeah, 2008 Macbook Pro, using this enclosure from iFixit:
[http://www.ifixit.com/Apple-Parts/9-5-mm-SATA-Optical-Bay-
SA...](http://www.ifixit.com/Apple-Parts/9-5-mm-SATA-Optical-Bay-SATA-Hard-
Drive-Enclosure/IF107-080)

------
marze
Couldn't you just as well say they announced the end of the hard drive, at
least for portable computers?

Hard drive capacity has so far outstripped the needs of a portable computer
user I'm surprised it didn't happen earlier.

------
tfh
My first laptop was an Asus and one of reasons I got it was the feature that
you could remove the optical drive and put a second battery instead. I
remember using the optical drive only 3 or 4 times. That was 6 years ago.

------
alexknight
Honestly, I don't see the 2011 MacBook Pro refresh having optical drives
anymore. Make way for even more battery space. Besides, if you really really
really want to be stubborn about it you can also opt for one of their external
drives. For the 2 times per year you may need one. Of course, even though I do
tend to rip a lot of music CDs I buy, I'd still prefer just an external
optical drive. The benefits of more battery in a MBP or maybe a second SSD/HD
would be lovely.

------
acabal
I travel a lot and the space and weight saved by not having an optical drive
would be great for me. In fact I'm shopping for a new laptop now (though not a
Mac) and finding a reasonably-priced 14-incher without an optical drive is
tough. Anyone have any recommendations?

------
robotron
My eee pc from two years ago doesn't have an optical drive. How is this news?

~~~
dingle_thunk
I don't know. The last MacBook Air didn't have an optical drive _either_. This
is just nonsense.

------
mark_l_watson
A USB DVD writer/burner costs very little, sothat will always be an option.

Also: this might make MacBoks not be such a good choice for running Ubuntu in
the future.

~~~
robotron
I said this somewhere else, but my Asus eee PC w/Ubuntu from 2008 does not
have an optical drive and has an SSD. Apple's a little late to the game. Once
again they do something that isn't new and the world thinks that it's
innovative or earth-shattering.

~~~
rimantas
You may want to check when the first generation of MacBook Air was released.

------
jcromartie
I can't tell you the last time I used a CD/DVD in my computer.

Maybe it was to install OS X?

------
drivebyacct2
I really couldn't be happier about this.

~~~
drivebyacct2
This wasn't sarcasm. :/

