
My Father’s Weakness for Beer Never Lessened His Strengths - DiabloD3
https://longreads.com/2017/06/15/my-fathers-weakness-for-beer-never-lessened-his-strengths/
======
rabboRubble
I had a relative that was a high functioning alcoholic, until he wasn't. He
could show up to family functions, be completely charming and entertaining,
and still was a degenerate alcoholic drinker in private to the suffering of
his family.

After many attempts at sobriety, he finally died in a hot tub. He was found
much later than one would want if cleaning up was a concern. Think "soup". My
relative, his wife, was questioned and presumed a murderer until a full
investigation was concluded.

“I’ll sleep when I’m dead"... indeed.

This author's fetishization of the father's drinking habit creeps me out a
bit.

~~~
HiroshiSan
It's very human to idolize your father, see them more than human, a super
hero.

~~~
rf15
I'd argue idolization itself is a bad habit of people. Doesn't mean you can't
appreciate people's work or strive to be more like them in their positive
properties, but idolization itself is blind faith, which is not a good thing
to have.

~~~
rf15
I'm surprised I got downvoted for advocating divergent and critical thinking
on HN.

~~~
breakingcups
Please don't comment on receiving downvotes. It's frowned upon in the
guidelines. Your other comment stands on its own and doesn't seem heavily
downvoted.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

------
ilamont
Mentioning "high-functioning alcoholic" reminded me of a story about
Churchill's drinking habits (and a modern-day journalist being unable to match
it):

 _He died 50 years ago this month - the anniversary of his funeral will be
marked later this week -- at the ripe age of 90. A miracle, considering he had
drunk an estimated 42,000 bottles of Pol Roger champagne through his life; he
thought nothing of starting the morning with cold game and a glass of hock and
ending it at 3am with the best part of a bottle of cognac._

(via [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/food-and-drink/drinks/the-day-
i-t...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/food-and-drink/drinks/the-day-i-tried-to-
match-churchill-drink-for-drink/))

Churchill was nevertheless able to write numerous political tracts, pamphlets,
speeches, a six-volume history of the first world war, a six-volume history of
the second world war, and a four-volume history of the English speaking
people. He won the Nobel Prize for literature, and throughout his long
political career served as Home Secretary, Minister of Defense, Chancellor of
the Exchequer, and PM (twice).

~~~
ellius
Alcohol is a problem exactly insofar as it negatively affects your life. The
problem is that, like all drugs—indeed, all vices of any kind—the thing itself
is exactly what will convince you that it's not causing problems. If you live
a long, full life, if your health and relationships aren't suffering, who's to
say there's anything wrong with it? But it's very hard for an individual in it
to know that those things are true.

~~~
hug
I'm an alcoholic. I'm an alcoholic but I don't have a problem, and I don't see
what it is about alcohol that would possibly cause people to think they're not
problem alcoholics.

I drink "too much", by which I mean I definitely exceed the so-called healthy
amount of four standard drinks a day over the long term, and just between you
and me I also exceed that amount over the short term, if you know what I mean,
but as I said earlier I also think that I don't have a problem. I know alcohol
is a vice, but it's not a vice I just have, it's a vice I luxuriate in. It's a
vice that gives me comfort and pleasure and just sometimes a little bit of
pain, but never regret. It's not a habit, it's a hobby.

Every weekday morning, after a night of drinking beers at the pub with
friends, or after a bottle of wine while playing video games, or after sharing
stories with a bartender at a cocktail bar, I wake up, I shit, I shower and I
shave, and I head to work on the train among all of the healthy, non-alcoholic
commuters. I achieve what I need to every day at work, being easily one of the
most productive people at the job, and I come home and I spend time with my
family, and my friends, and except for the part where I have a glass of gin in
my hand you'd never pick me as the guy who drinks "too much". I blend in. I
blend in not because I try, but because it's not actually really an issue. Not
a problem.

Sometimes, rarely enough to call it rare but repeatable enough to call it
occasional, on a Saturday morning I'll wake up with blurry eyes and a pounding
headache and I'll know I've definitely overdone it. That the night before I
had -- in full knowledge of the consequences, and accepting them -- found the
limit of the amount that I should have had to drink and gone right past it
without looking back. That maybe I should have stopped four or five or six or
seven drinks earlier in the night, if only for the fact that drinking is too
much fun and too delicious. If only for the fact that I didn't so much enjoy
being drunk, with the knots in my brain unwound, feeling like I'm finally able
to relax my consciousness with a drink like I relax my body with a massage.

Even those mornings after I think to myself that I don't have a problem. Maybe
it's just my naïveté.

~~~
nkozyra
I'm in the same boat, but I know it's a problem.

Yes, I get everything done I need to and then some. I'm up by 7 every day of
the week, I work efficiently 50, sometimes 60+ hours a week. I'm with my
family nights and weekends. I exercise, I play basketball, I play music.

I'm 5 drinks in right now. I drink alone, every night after my wife and son
are asleep. I'm usually working and drinking from 9 or 10 until 2 or 3 and
then up a few hours later. I feel a little off for the first hour or so and
then drink enough coffee to plow through the day. To be completely honest I
think I've been drinking enough that getting a hangover would take a
phenomenal amount of effort. I've acclimated to having booze every night.
That's a problem. But it's not the big one.

The big deal is: alcohol is unequivocally bad for you long-term. If it doesn't
kill you directly through fatty liver/cirrhosis it'll contribute to an early
death through many, many forms of cancer, heart disease, dementia, etc. You
won't find many doctors who will say that drinking is not bad for you. My
doctor was shocked even though I _lied about how much I drink_. I lowballed it
and my doctor said "whoa, that's too much"

It is a problem. A serious problem that is too often marginalized by alcohol's
social role.

~~~
hug
I don't know you and you don't know me, despite the fact that you say we're in
the same boat, but it sounds to me like you're saying you really think it's
time to start bailing. I hope by the same boat you just mean the same model,
because if what you're saying is as true for me as it is for you, I'm going to
sink, because honestly I don't feel like I'm gaining water.

I feel like I might have stretched the analogy too far, but here's the thing:
What's the first step, again?

If you're happy, and if you _honestly_ don't think you have a problem after
some serious introspection, then you don't have a problem. You might have a
diminished life span and you might have some health complications, but if the
root cause of those things is you living your life the way you want to, maybe
that's something you should have the choice to do.

~~~
soperj
I had 2 uncles that were high functioning alcoholics, that would do the same
as you, but drink substantially more (1-2 bottles of rye a day). By the time
they were in their early 60s, both of them (they were brothers) had to have
their legs amputated because of circulation issues related to alcohol
consumption.

It can lead to more problems than you'd think.

I guess my first thought when I see people like this, especially people who
can clearly do their job quite well, is don't you wonder what you could
accomplish when you're not drunk?

~~~
allenbrunson
> I guess my first thought when I see people like this, especially people who
> can clearly do their job quite well, is don't you wonder what you could
> accomplish when you're not drunk?

... and that says to me that you didn't absorb what those guys wrote. like,
for example, this:

> If only for the fact that I didn't so much enjoy being drunk, with the knots
> in my brain unwound, feeling like I'm finally able to relax my consciousness
> with a drink like I relax my body with a massage.

therefore, the answer to "what you could accomplish when you're not drunk"
might well be "a whole hell of a lot less than he's accomplishing right now."

~~~
barrkel
Actually, I suspect those knots are thwarted ambition or unaddressed life
problems or something else that could be fixed that alcohol is just
anesthesizing.

It might still be rational. The costs of change on other people, like
children, may make it not worthwhile, or the struggle to fulfill ambition
might rationally be viewed as pointless. Just don't dismiss the knots as
things that can only be treated with alcohol.

~~~
hug
Just to clarify -- although I was hoping it would be conveyed by the tone and
the flavour of my original post -- I don't have life problems. I also don't
have a struggle to fulfill ambition: I passed the goal I set for myself at
fifteen as a highschool dropout, and I did so with flying colours.

I love my life. I don't know, really, what would improve it a whole lot.
Perhaps winning the lottery would help, although I wouldn't bet on it -- I
have a lovely partner, a comfortable home, enough money to spend on hobbies
and travel and, yes, drinking -- I make art and I make infrastructure, and
everything is great.

But I still drink.

------
ada1981
No need for judgement. But I'm wondering if she has had the opportunity to
grieve a childhood with a father who was checked out emotionally and how that
relationship has laid a foundation for how she relates to her partner and the
world.

No need to "judge", but if she's still seeing her father as super human, she's
probably got some healing to do to allow him, and her, to be ok with their
humanity.

------
rbosinger
Seriously not trying to undermine the reality of this article but something
made me think here. I thought it was worth sharing.

I keep trying to drink beer out of my coffee travel mug but I find the walking
motion really flattens it and makes it unbearable.

Vodka and Gatorade works better here. I'd like beer though.

Could someone invent a cup that can carry beer without ruining the
carbonation?

~~~
icanhackit
Gimballed drink holders exist, chiefly for boating, but you seem to want a
gimballed cup that is meant for carrying rather than mounting to something.
This kind of falls short of being a gimballed cup but seems neat nonetheless:
[https://www.3dagogo.com/EricYoung/designs/GimbalDrinkHolder](https://www.3dagogo.com/EricYoung/designs/GimbalDrinkHolder)

------
lloydde
Did I miss where in the article the OP describes his alcoholic habits?
Established his weakness for beer? I don't doubt that her father was, but it
felt weird that I missed his alcoholism. Was it regularly having a beer in a
to-go-cup?

~~~
Mz
He apparently drank _even while driving._ And also drank while visiting
relatives when he had to make the long drive back because his wife did not
drive.

~~~
chrismeller
There's no mention of when this was. It's easy to judge past events by our
modern morals and laws, but keep in mind that those weren't always the same.
Even within the baby boomers' lifetimes standards were drastically
different...

Personally, I think the better example is that his wife was constantly arguing
with him about it. Regardless of the actual standards at the time, he was
apparently routinely crossing the line with the woman that presumably loved
him and bore his children.

Of course just as the author tacitly accepts alcoholism because of her
upbringing it's possible her mother is the exact opposite because of hers, but
it seems unlikely...

~~~
Mz
I wasn't judging anything. I was just giving a TLDR of the drinking habits
referenced in the article.

My father drank pretty heavily. No one in the family ever called him an
alcoholic. He quit after he left the army, having fought in the front lines of
two wars. I think he drank to quiet the nightmares so he could sleep.

He was already dead (at about age 89) when I finally realized that for all
that he was a raconteur who told endless stories, he never told war stories
about WW2. His stories about Vietnam were told humorously. If Vietnam was
joke-worthy, WW2 was apparently _unspeakable._

I am the last person who would be judgy about this story.

~~~
chrismeller
The italicized "even while driving" seemed a bit judgemental. My bad if I
misread that.

~~~
Mz
No, it was just something that implies that he drank _constantly,_ except at
work and for 40 days each year for Lent. At a very early age, the author
learned to pour dad's beer in the car for his travel cup. This was a routine
and ongoing practice. It is a detail that is suggestive of "If he isn't
sleeping or at work, he has a beer in his hand. That's how much he drinks."

------
johndoez
I like drinking from time to time, but the hangovers put me off, which is
nature's way of saying, leave off. If I have more than four drinks I have to
spend the next day in bed. I simply can't function. I know a couple of
alcoholics and neither suffer from hangovers (or ever have done). When I read
"functional alcoholic" I think of someone who doesn't suffer from hangovers.

~~~
havetocharge
I'm the same way. Four drinks is too much for me. I usually feel I the next
day after 2. I.enjoy drinking for the duration of the act, and every moment
after that is mostly regret.

------
xrange
Anyone have stats on rates of alcohol use over time, compared to other
medications? For example, maybe people are using anti-depressants instead of
medicating themselves with alcohol?

------
gregorymichael
I have a 2.5 year old daughter. Beer doesn't do much for me, but that made me
weepy.

------
aleden
"The good deeds a man has done before defend him." (Oppenheimer)

------
unixhero
Too sad. Shouldn't have read. Now I can't unread it. Darnit!:)

Well written piece.

------
minademian
good essay. i like the somber tone that neither glorifies nor pscyhologies her
father's disease.

------
icantdrive55
Really good story. Really good writing.

I wasen't expecting this. I thought it would be another blame the alcoholic
father.

My dad was an alcoholic. He died of a football sized tumor in his liver. It
went undiagnosed for at least a decade. The doctor thought it was just scar
tissue from a previous umbilical hernia operation.

Now my father was a piece of work, but it wasen't the alcohol that made him
difficult to be around. It was just his personality. He was actually more
pleasant to be around when he was drinking.

As to his drinking, and driving. Some of you will question what I'm going to
say, but he was a better driver when drinking. I know blasphemy, but true.

It could be that he was more coordinated than the average person, or that he
was driving daily since he was 14. Yes, he drive to high school in the
Richmond district in San Francisco. Forget the high school, but that actress
in West side Story, and Rebel without a Cause--Natalie Wood went to. It was
Lincoln high. His could I forget that school?

Any who, he was the good driver sober, or after a few. And he was a functional
alcoholic. He never missed work due to a hang over. Then again it was a
different era.

Drinking on the job was almost encouraged. Yes--union electricians could drink
beer if doing something mundane. It wouldn't happen these days, but did back
in the day.

He was very conservative guy, but always kinda nervous. It could have been
genes(he was Irish), or just his personality?

He used to say if opium wasen't illegial, I think I would like the effect.

Later on life, I knew what he was getting at. I don't know the alternative to
alcohol is. It's not benzodiazepines, anti-depressants, or opium. You would
think by now, we would have a safe drug to take tge edge off? And no, he tried
all the strains of marijuana. It just name him more nervous.

Anyways, keep up the truthful--honest writing. Don't sellout.

~~~
rdtsc
Thanks for sharing.

> but it wasn't the alcohol that made him difficult to be around. It was just
> his personality.

I've heard of that and that people often use alcohol to self-medicate or to
ease social anxiety for example. They soon enough learn that they can function
better if they drink.

My grandfather was a bit that way, I only have fond memories of him being
warm, and kind when he was drunk. When sober he was mean, cold and not very
approachable. He fought in the WW2 and drove the Germans all the way to
Berlin, got wounded twice, saw pretty horrible things I imagine, but never
talked about it. But probably had some effect on his drinking as well.

------
peterwwillis
How did this get to the front page?

~~~
bdcravens
There's a pretty strong drinking culture among the hacker crowd. I feel many
have their doubts, and want reassurance.

~~~
rf15
As somebody who doesn't drink and considering that people are usually not
drinking on the job, I cannot tell, but yes, I think the critical thinking
part coming along with this job might lead to people getting more into
drinking to cope than average. (just speculation)

~~~
bdcravens
I think it's has a lot to do with the cultural landscape you're in. Among the
younger, "startupy" crowd it's more prevalent than Hanselman's hidden 99%.

