

College Kids - vorbby
http://blog.vorbby.com/post/10258088772/college-kids-or-the-people-you-meet-instead-of-the

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chmielewski
I was in an Information Systems (BBA with an IT focus) degree program at a
four year university in the United States' "Deep South". I got out of the
college scene after 3 years and enlisted because I figured I could be working
in IT faster (and leave the Armed Forces with relevant experience under my
belt) if I left. (This was right before the economy tanked, so in retrospect
it was an initiative bathed in some sort of fatefully unintentional
clairvoyance.) I also figured that in going this route, I could get my foot in
the door with various agencies that I would one day like to be working for.
What you said about the government work really resonated with me, very true
and I see it now. But I thought in college "these people don't really USE, nor
are they interested in, the technology they're learning about" (this is an
exception of course, some were). Now I'm saying, at my current position,
"these people don't use at home, nor are they interested in, the technology
they use at work" (this is an exception of course, some do). The difference in
people between the two places: no difference. The difference in environment:
interesting work experiences and a handful of IT industry certifications that
were provided for me at no cost.

~~~
vorbby
Hmm, that's interesting. I guess the environment issue isn't black and white.

I guess what bothers me about all the people aiming for their government jobs
is the fact that they're content doing menial maintenance of legacy systems in
COBOL or whatever the hell they're written in. I know there's probably some
brilliant kids in the program, and it seems like they're all convinced that
it's the best/only path available to them, and they're fine with that.

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josephmosby
You have to approach this drawing a distinction between learning a skill and
joining a community.

If you joined this community college program in Ottawa to learn a trick or two
about programming, you approached it with the right mindset. You approached it
looking for technical improvement.

It sounds like, however, you joined the program looking for rock stars. If
Ottawa was a technology startup focused town, you'd know it already - there
would be technology startups. Environment is so critical.

I come from another government town (Washington, DC) and there are a
significant number of absolutely brilliant people here...who want nothing to
do with a tech startup. They're government employees, or contractors, or even
just policy wonks. That's not a slight against their intelligence; it's just
that the culture in DC is not geared toward startups while Silicon Valley is.

There's not going to be an easy way or good time to rip yourself away from
Ottawa - it's going to be frustrating and probably won't be an easy move. But
if that's what you want to do, you'll have to find a way.

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krevis
_Am I just in the wrong program at the wrong school at the wrong time?_

Yes. Maybe the wrong program, definitely the wrong school. (You have little
choice about the time, so forget about it.)

Suggestion: Be the person you want to meet. The only person you can control is
yourself, and even that ain't easy. The other students are idiots right now?
Well, give them a chance to learn.

The rest is just a chaotic process; maybe you meet people that you click with,
maybe you don't, maybe it comes easily, maybe it doesn't. If you get lucky, it
probably won't come from a direction you expected, so stay open to all the
opportunities you can find. Do what you can to improve your odds, in the
meantime.

~~~
vorbby
This is great advice. I'm generally fairly introverted, so this is something I
could put some effort in to and hopefully get some results.

One thing I need to make more of an effort in is to meet people outside of
school. I should, and will, look in to some local meetups and things of that
nature to meet people.

Thanks a lot for reading and commenting!

~~~
steverb
Don't be afraid to venture outside of student groups either.

Most areas have user groups of various sorts. Don't be afraid to attend user
groups for technologies you're not necessarily interested in right now.

Good geeks often have broad interests. You'll be surprised at the number of
.Net developers at a user group meeting who also hack Ruby and Python, and
know their way around a Unix command line.

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groovy2shoes
I encountered these types of students when I was at university, as well. From
what I hear, they're common at most universities. It seems like the vast
majority of people going into Computer Science choose it because they want to
write video games or make web sites, not because they're genuinely interested
in Computer Science. Many schools have been downgrading their programs to
cater to them (after all, their money is just as <insert color of legal tender
here>).

~~~
vorbby
Thanks for the comment and for reading; it's good to know I'm not alone.

How did you deal with it? Did you actively seek out like-minded people? If so,
any tips on how I can do the same?

Thanks again.

~~~
groovy2shoes
Honestly, I was absolutely miserable for the first two years. Eventually I met
a couple of really awesome friends. The only advice I can really give is not
to write anyone off without first giving them a chance: some of the coolest
people will be the ones you least suspect.

~~~
joezydeco
As a fellow CS Grad, my one little piece of advice is to just give it some
time. You've got a weed-out course coming somewhere after your intro classes,
and those left will be the ones that are really dedicated and have the tools
to press onward.

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markmccraw
Not speaking from personal experience, but the difference between the kids who
go to a community college and a school with a respected <insert field here>
program is going to be massive. I'd be figuring out how to transfer to
somewhere better in a hurry. Even if it takes you time to save up money or
whatever.

~~~
vorbby
That's my problem (and goal) right now: money.

I figured the gap would be quite large, so my goal now is to graduate from the
two year program I'm in now, so that I have at least something under my belt,
and then move on to bigger and better things at a bigger and better school.

Thanks a lot for the comment and advice!

~~~
jholman
Hey, I don't know a thing about you, but I'm going to take your post on face
value, which makes it _sound_ like you got half a clue, and some ambition, and
a year of dev work experience.

Let's talk about money.

Algonquin's tuition is what, $1,212.20 per 13-week semester? I'm hoping that's
for 15+ hours per week of classroom time (a.k.a 5 3-credit courses), counting
only time with a faculty member, not TAs. Plus some bonus lab/TA time, maybe,
depending. Based on a little website, let's look at a few Real Schools (a few
in your city, a few in mine). UOttawa says they charge $2,710.65 for Fall 2011
(again, presumably for 15 hours of classroom time a week, plus labs). Carleton
astonished me at $6k+, that's freaky high (PS you US people, I'm not talking
about the U.S.). At my end of the country, SFU charges $163.80 per credit
(i.e. multiply by 15 for a full load, getting $2500). UBC is marginally
cheaper. None of those places is MIT or Waterloo, but at least UBC and SFU are
_fine_ schools.

Last year, you were working as a junior dev with no edumacation, presumably no
serious prior experience, but you know enough to ask "what distribution", so
probably you're useful. Making what, gotta be more than $10k a semester pre-
tax ($30k a year)? Gotta be at least that much, although I dunno what Ottawa
rates are like. Can you do that job while going to school? Do you want to?
Your real cost of going to school is that you lost access to that $10k-$15k
for the semester. The difference between $1k tuition and $3k tuition just
became kinda dinky, eh?

The point is, the difference in tuition between Algonquin and UOttawa should
be ignorable. You've already forfeited $10k+ in salary, and $1k in tuition,
PER SEMESTER, so $1k extra is kinda icing on the cake. Optimize correctly!
Don't waste your life at the wrong school over such a small difference! (I
admit Carleton's apparently $6k makes me hesitate a little).

Now, teaching quality.

Teaching quality MIGHT be great at a college, I can't say. I went to Capilano
College (now University) for 2 years, and I got some really really great
instructors. But if that's not what you're getting, why are you wasting money,
and more importantly time? Bad GPA you need to fix?

And listen, if the program has great teaching (not that you'd know at two
weeks in), then it'll be a viable foundation to build on at a bigger/better
school. But if you're getting half-assed teaching, then you're wasting time,
not getting something under your belt. (If they teach badly but you already
know it, you're wasting time. If you don't know it now and they don't teach
it, wasting time!)

And now to your original point about peers. Yeah, a community college is gonna
attract a lot of marginal students. I met a few awesome and very smart people
at Capilano College (smarter than me), but I gotta admit, they were a lot
fewer and farther between than what I got to meet at SFU. Partly that's just
the size of the pool of potential peers, partly it's that larger schools have
better structures in place to help you FIND those peers (more societies, etc).

Half the point of going to school is to meet awesome peers who mutually
inspire you, who you can have great experiences with, etc.

I guess what I'm saying is, if the kids are driving you batshit, you should
see how fast you can get your ass into a better group of kids. Of course, the
problem could just be you. ;)

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theycallhimtom
What level of class is it?

If it is an introductory class just be happy that people are there. I know
plenty of programmers (including myself) who only got interested in CS because
of video games. I then figured out I liked CS and didn't really like making
games.

~~~
vorbby
This program is as entry-level as it gets. No prerequisites, two years,
assumes no prior knowledge.

It's weak, but it's the best I could afford.

