
Why So Many Smart People Aren’t Happy - lisper
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/04/why-so-many-smart-people-arent-happy/479832/?single_page=true
======
mdorazio
It's difficult to comment on this without sounding arrogant or entitled, but
still I personally think this interview misses a couple of points I've seen in
my own circle of friends.

1) Smart children are raised with expectations of doing great things _because
they are smart_. If you have two children and one is obviously smarter than
the other, the burden of your hopes and dreams will naturally fall on the
smarter one, and equal accomplishments between the two will not have equal
praise. Later in life this turns into being unhappy because you feel like you
could do more _because you are smart_. It's a constant burden.

2) Being smart brings with it a certain level of ability to "peer behind the
curtain" so to speak, and see just how dirty the real world is. It can make it
seem like sinking time and effort to make meaningful changes is just futile
because of how many things are messed up. And that kind of mindset saps
happiness in a hurry.

~~~
paulddraper
"Peer behind the curtain" goes both ways.

I like to think I'm much happier knowing how wonderfully magnificent the
universe is, rather than staring at the ceiling.

~~~
beeboop
I think it's a bit sad, really. Baring a discovery that fundamentally changes
how the universe as we know it works, we'll very likely never communicate with
another form of life. We'll never leave our solar system. We'll probably never
even see images of other solar systems, much less galaxies. The universe is an
amazing thing full of stuff that would probably sound far-fetched in a science
fiction novel and we'll never even get to know whether it exists. If I could
be dumber and more preoccupied with the material lifestyle of most people, I'd
probably be happier.

~~~
paulddraper
You're being pessimistic.

We went from inventing powered flight to landing on the freaking moon in less
than 70 years.

In any case, I suspect that you may not be satisfied no matter want reality
was. If you had interstellar travel you wouldn't be happy without
intergalactic travel.

Even if you only see your own planet, creation is beautiful. (FYI, you happen
to be living on the most amazing planet known.)

------
gumby
> If you were to go back to the three things that people need—mastery,
> belonging, and autonomy—I'd add a fourth, after basic necessities have been
> met. It’s the attitude or the worldview that you bring to life. And that
> worldview can be characterized, just for simplicity, in one of two fashions:
> One extreme is a kind of scarcity-minded approach, that my win is going to
> come at somebody else's loss, which makes you engage in social comparisons.
> And the other view is what I would call a more abundance-oriented approach,
> that there's room for everybody to grow.

The best part of his analysis, IMHO. I don't even like being around zero-sum
people.

~~~
dismal2
It's just so hard to believe the abundance view! I wish I could. Our economy
simply does not reward people for being good or ok at things. You have to be
amazing. So you are forced into competition simply to survive and pay for your
existence.

~~~
yolesaber
The US produces more than enough food for everyone on the planet. There is
ample room across the nation to build enough housing for everyone. Why don't
we do it? Because the zero-sum neoliberal worldview has been ingrained in the
American mind thanks to absurd concepts of exceptionalism and "individual
liberty" and so the prevailing sentiment of the day is "fuck you got mine" in
the biggest christian nation on earth.

~~~
jdminhbg
> zero-sum neoliberal worldview

This makes about as much sense as "the laissez-faire fascist worldview" or the
"growth at any costs environmental worldview."

~~~
mattnewton
I think it's a great description then for an emerging worldview that
simultaneously believes in too big to fail for banks but not in people,
champions social equality but supports laws that allow racial profiling by
police and TSA, and believes the war in Iraq was a mistake but that we should
support Isreal unilaterally

~~~
jdminhbg
That's not what "zero-sum" means.

------
6stringmerc
The only people I recognize, time and again, as having an "abundance mindset"
are people who prioritize wealth and material objects first and foremost,
because they recognize there's a whole lot of that stuff out there for the
person willing to go out there and get it however they can. Otherwise, I kind
of see the term as not very useful. Actually, it might be inherently wrong.

A major part of the 'unhappiness' that I see a lot of "smart" people deal with
is kind of the opposite of this "abundance" thing - in reality, there aren't
enough of 'everything' to go around. Good jobs, reasonably priced things,
work-life balance, adequate sick and vacation time, opportunities to advance
in a company...it's not that smart people reject these things, it's that some
of the conditions are pretty un-sympathetic to merit and integrity based
approaches. For all the talk about the US having a very mobile system of
social and economic status - which I think it does, global context in mind -
it's still a bell curve of haves and have nots. Being smart enough to see that
conditions are not very appealing doesn't jack up the seratonin feelings of
"oh everything is just great" in my neighborhood. Relevant quote:

 _Peter Gibbons: Our high school guidance counselor used to ask us what you 'd
do if you had a million dollars and you didn't have to work. And invariably
what you'd say was supposed to be your career. So, if you wanted to fix old
cars then you're supposed to be an auto mechanic.

Samir: So what did you say?

Peter Gibbons: I never had an answer. I guess that's why I'm working at
Initech.

Michael Bolton: No, you're working at Initech because that question is
bullshit to begin with. If everyone listened to her, there'd be no janitors,
because no one would clean shit up if they had a million dollars._

------
jeremysmyth
The word "smart" appears in the title of the book being publicised, and in the
title of the article, but appears _nowhere else_ in the article. The comments
here, and the title of the article, are quite misleading about the content of
the article.

"Smart" has little or nothing to do with it. It so happens that whether you're
smart or not is _not_ a predictor of your happiness. The article might as well
be called "Why so many people born on Tuesdays aren't happy."

~~~
kobayashi
I'm amazed that your comment is so low here. Typically, title misdirection is
something which HN users seem to viscerally dislike.

------
insmod88
There is a great quote from Mad Men on happiness.

"But what is happiness? It's a moment before you need more happiness."

Happiness is like a high that we chase. When I was 25, I was unhappy. But, I
was making 150k a year, was very healthy, had good relationships with parents,
siblings and friends. I had everything that I needed. I had a good social life
and a good job that challenged me intellectually. I was working hard towards
my long term goals of climbing the corporate ladder. I had many hobbies that I
devoted serious time to. Yet, there was a sense of unhappiness. An "is this
all to life" feeling.

I'm 27 now. I still feel like this on some days, but what has made is better
is the notion that I can use my skills to help other people improve their
lives. I've also learned not to pay too much attention to how you feel/what
you're feeling.

/rant

~~~
popdoit
Wait 'till you hit 30.

~~~
typedef_struct
I'm 4 months out, don't leave me hanging!

------
visarga
Smart people suffer from isolation, they can't easily find friends that can
keep up with them. If you have an IQ of 135, there is maybe one person as
smart as you in 100 people. If your IQ is 145, then it's 1 in 1000. They have
little chance of socializing on their level, so most of the time they have to
hold back. In extreme, that creates a state of feralization - they are like
lone humans amidst animals, so they are almost alone.

~~~
TheCowboy
There is no rule that you can only socialize with people "on your level". This
can turn into a self-fulfilling prophesy where people impose this view that a
lack of intelligent peers is problematic, and they feel and become isolated as
a result.

It can be a problem if the population adopts an anti-intellectual strain of
thought, which I think persists in America to some degree. It is important to
have people who are supportive of other people's intellectual interests. But
even intelligent people can be dismissive of intellectual pursuits, especially
if they're outside their own set of interests.

It is possible to have a good social life with people who have had less
education, or are not as intelligent. There are ways to lead a satisfying
intellectual life without having access to the Stanford CS department happy
hour, and this is more true now thanks to the Internet.

------
drzaiusapelord
Has anyone considered the flipside to this? Maybe a lot of unhappy people just
assume they're "smart" instead of depressed or other mental illness, or are
just asocial personality types. I've met more than a few mediocre people who
have this attitude and engage in talk about "sheeple" and such, but they're
not remotely exceptional intellectually. In fact, most of them are fairly
average or perhaps do slightly better than average in one small area in their
life and play that up as justification for their greatness.

I think its easy for the depressed or people who are just misanthropes to hide
behind a "the world will never understand my genius" attitudes we see
portrayed in the media. They see themselves as a John Nash or a misunderstood
artist, when they're just, well, ordinary.

This isn't a hypothetical in my world. When we do hiring its hard to filter
out the asocial smart guy from the asocial bullshitter for technical jobs,
especially for entry-level. Shockingly, I find the asocial bullshitter
personality is mostly unaware at how terrible he is for the job he's applying
for. Maybe its Dunning-Kruger or just old fashioned arrogance, but it can be
hard to spot. We have a bad hire like this and its incredible how much damage
he has done to the department and how he's unwilling to accept that he's, at
best, below average. Instead he engages in this "tech master" personality with
non-technical staff that is bizarre to witness, especially when you listen in
and hear that 50% of what he's saying is just completely and obviously wrong.

~~~
alexashka
I think you've described 'delusional' perfectly.

It is indeed a massive epidemic, as far as I can tell. A lot of people are in
on the game and perpetuating it however - so what can one expect?

~~~
gnaritas
More than 80% of people still pray to sky gods, delusional is the normal state
of most human beings.

~~~
drzaiusapelord
I don't care if you pray to a pet turtle. If you're competent and easy to work
with, you're okay in my book.

Oh, the guy in my earlier posting? Strict atheist. I don't think religiosity
has any bearing on intelligence.

~~~
gnaritas
How competent can you really be if you're delusional?

> I don't think religiosity has any bearing on intelligence.

I think it has every bearing on intelligence; they are highly correlated[1]
and the science backs this up.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence)

------
pessimizer
I think it's because generalized intelligence isn't a thing, and if you're an
early reader, or an early computer user, so end up scoring far from the norm
on early tests, the identity of being "smart" is assigned to you for life -
and the only thing left for you to become is a disappointment. This leads to
perfectionism, which is crippling.

[http://www.hillaryrettig.com/perfectionism/](http://www.hillaryrettig.com/perfectionism/)

[http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hillary-
rettig/perfectionism-a...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hillary-
rettig/perfectionism-and-addicti_b_396056.html)

------
sametmax
Understanding something doesn't mean you are able to:

\- solve anything; \- improve anything; \- even do anything at all.

E.G: I know very smart people, perfectly understanding the theory of social
interactions, knowing second to second the dynamic our group is engaged in,
and yet, absolutly enable to flirt with the girl they fancy. And it makes them
miserable.

------
ZenoArrow
It doesn't surprise me in the least, because smart != wise. Academic
achievement does not require wisdom on how best to live, and wisdom is not
dependant on academic achievement.

~~~
dominotw
Yep life for smart people is problem oriented for which they have to find
solutions.

Thats how we are raised; in a problem/solution format.

~~~
ZenoArrow
That's one possible interpretation, but just to be clear I didn't say they
were mutually exclusive, I said they weren't dependant. It's possible to be
both academically gifted and wise, but one does not depend on the other to
exist.

------
burnt1ce
I think people who believe to be smart and depressed might be a slave to their
own pride/ego. They may have high expectations that comes with a high cost to
their well being.

------
kobayashi
Great cursory assessment of capitalism and happiness:

>On the face of it, it might look like I'm saying that capitalism in general
is not very good at promoting an abundance mindset. But I don't think that
that is entirely accurate. If you were to break capitalism down into two very
important tenets, one is the freedom of movement of people, thought, and
goods, and the freedom of choice. The second aspect is a distribution of
resources according to people's abilities rather than according to people's
needs.

>That first tenet of capitalism, I think, is beautiful, and I wouldn't let go
of it. And if that ideology comes with the baggage of distribution of
resources according to abilities, then I take that package, rather than a
package where you restrict people's freedom of thought and what kinds of
choices they can make, even if it's combined with a distribution of resources
according to people's needs.

------
0xdeadbeefbabe
Because human intelligence is overrated
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11572527](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11572527)

------
atom-morgan
Pair this article with "Average Americans Think They’re Smarter Than the
Average American".

[https://www.nationaljournal.com/congress/2014/05/12/average-...](https://www.nationaljournal.com/congress/2014/05/12/average-
americans-think-theyre-smarter-than-average-american)

------
TheRealDunkirk
"For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth
sorrow." \- Ecc 1:18

