
Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012) - yesbabyyes
http://www.madinamerica.com/2012/02/why-anti-authoritarians-are-diagnosed-as-mentally-ill/
======
bjhoops1
I have a 13-year-old brother with ODD. And let me tell you, there is more to
it than a healthy does of anti-authoritarianism.

We adopted my brother when he was 15 months old, and in his first year of life
we suspect he was frequently neglected, leading to attachment issues.
Basically, when an infant's needs are not met, they get distressed, and the
more often this occurs, the more those neurological pathways become ingrained
in their brains. Which means that people with a traumatic early childhood are
much more sensitive to stimulus, feel threatened easily, and very quickly move
into "survival mode". In survival mode, we will all lie, cheat or steal
because our survival is at stake. Kids like my brother spent a
disproportionate amount of their time in this state.

They also learn at that young age that their needs are not going to be met,
and so they come to distrust authority and other people, focusing on looking
out for themselves (since no one else is going to). They also tend to fail to
internalize social norms and rules like being honest and the "golden rule".
These sorts of tendencies can be considered anti-authoritarian, but it is a
reactionary anti-authoritarianism, not a healthy, well-reasoned skepticism of
prevailing authorities. The latter is healthy, the former is not.

So while it may be the case that anti-authoritarian individuals frequently are
diagnosed a mentally ill, it is probably much more common that some kinds of
mentally ill individuals happen to be anti-authoritarian. I.e. causation moves
from certain types of mental illness to anti-authoritarianism. Basically, I'd
like to say this is an interesting article, but please don't walk away
thinking that the entire system is just a ploy by The Man to keep the Lisbeth
Salanders of this world marginalized. It is much more complicated and
difficult than that.

On a personal note, it can be very painful to love someone with issues like
ODD. It requires loads of love, patience and restraint. It can also be very
rewarding.

~~~
argonz
Attachment and insecurity issues can be greatly improved with psychedelic
induced trips (with safe setting). If mushrooms, ayahuasca or similars are
very hard to get(in my country it's hard) holotropic breathwork is reported to
have similar effect, although can't reinforce that.

This message is more like to anyone with attachment issues, I've just read
your brother is 13 years old so mehh, don't know.. Safe bet that he is not
mature enough, haven't read anything about what are the hazards when
adolescents take it.

~~~
bjhoops1
I'll get right on that and recommend that to my parents. :P It is interesting
the recent research on psychotropics, though.

~~~
hosh
Meditation, which takes a longer route to the psychedelic states, can also
help and has less stigma attached to it. Something to consider at least.

By its very nature, the practice (such as Vipassana) involves not becoming
attached to rising stimulus, on a moment-to-moment basis. I can tell you from
personal experience, someone who is habituated to be sensitive like your
brother, will have a difficult time with this. Further, there's nothing you
can do to _make_ your brother do this practice.

The thing about well-guided mushroom and Ayahuasca experiences is such that
you learn what it is like to _not_ be sensitive to arising stimuli, and as
such, seek out practices like this. (Though there are other things going on
too). If you are serious about looking into using psychedelics for therapy
(possibly when your brother is older), it may be something to do together
rather than throwing your brother out into the void.

~~~
ZirconCode
For Vipassana Meditation I recommend "Mindfulness in Plain English". You can
find it online. It's an incredibly good book to begin meditation at all.

------
neilk
I sometimes ask mental health professionals what the converse of Oppositional
Defiant Disorder is. At what point do we recognize a disorder in a child who
is unnaturally compliant and obedient? No answer so far.

I ask because I think I had this. When I was a young prodigy I had the
mentality of a performing seal.

It's true that some people have difficulty controlling themselves, and they do
need help. But the lack of symmetry says a lot about how diseases are
identified; it is about institutional convenience.

~~~
nostrademons
"Low self-esteem", sometimes colloquially called "people pleasing" or "being a
doormat". A good therapist will recognize this and encourage the child to
develop more of their own interests and assert themselves more.

~~~
betterunix
The problem is that a child will not be brought to a therapist for following
the rules; only a child who violates rules too frequently will ever see the
inside of a psychiatrist's office. A child who always does what they are told
will be _rewarded_ , and will likely be rewarded further if their reaction to
their rewards is, "What are my next set of instructions?"

~~~
bjhoops1
This reminds me of a poem my favorite Math professor used to share, about a
little boy who was always instructed exactly how to draw a picture of a
flower: <http://home.bresnan.net/~cabreras/theboy.htm>

~~~
csense
This "poem" is depressing.

Off topic: It's never made sense to me why people call things that don't rhyme
"poems." As far as I'm concerned, this is an essay, not a poem.

~~~
Stratoscope
It's a type of poetry called "free verse".

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_verse>

[http://examples.yourdictionary.com/examples-of-free-verse-
po...](http://examples.yourdictionary.com/examples-of-free-verse-poems.html)

Here is the classic story of a Real Programmer, written in free verse:

<http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/story-of-mel.html>

This story was originally written in prose, and it apparently got converted to
free verse more or less by accident as it was bounced around mailing lists.
Here's the prose version:

<http://www.pbm.com//~lindahl/mel.html>

HN discussion:

<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=678999>

~~~
Stratoscope

      Another way to put it,
      I suppose you could say,
      is that the difference
      between prose and free verse
      is the number of lines.

~~~
cema
Not the number, more like the form, but in general the difference between
poetry and, uh, prose is something I do not quite understand.

~~~
Stratoscope

      > Not the number,
      > more like the form,
    
      Now that's a great start!
      I wonder if the art is knowing when to go on until your breath runs out,
      and when to keep it
      short.

------
tokenadult
I don't like this article's groundless speculation about Albert Einstein, who
is used as an unwilling poster child for dozens of causes without support in
Einstein's actual biography. I have carefully read Einstein's longest
autobiographical writing, and cite it on my personal website,

<http://learninfreedom.org/Nobel_hates_school.html>

and while it is indisputable that Einstein blew off some of his school
homework, it is not at all clear that he would meet any of the DSM-IV or new
DSM-5 diagnostic criteria for any of the conditions claimed for him.

More generally, there is a better call for improvement of psychological
diagnosis

[http://www.nimh.nih.gov/about/director/2013/transforming-
dia...](http://www.nimh.nih.gov/about/director/2013/transforming-
diagnosis.shtml)

already up on the website of the National Institute of Mental Health in the
United States, the subject of much news reporting and commentary in the last
week. So I won't take this opinion piece by lone blogger as the last word on
what needs to be done to improve psychological diagnosis.

~~~
gdsimoes
I read two Einstein's biographies and I have come to the conclusion that if he
was born today he would probably be a college drop out. Some people say that
geniuses always survives life hardships, but the fact that there are no new
Einsteins (or Maxwells, Plancks...) seems to show this isn't true.

~~~
ceejayoz
> Some people say that geniuses always survives life hardships, but the fact
> that there are no new Einsteins (or Maxwells, Plancks...) seems to show this
> isn't true.

No new Einsteins, Maxwells, and Plancks?

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_in_Phys...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_in_Physics)

~~~
fianchetto
A Nobel doth not a genius make.

~~~
samweinberg
But a Nobel is granted to a genius already made.

~~~
fianchetto
Not necessarily. Robert Lucas, for instance.

------
zdw
The TL:DR of this article, in D&D terms:

Chaotic aligned people are being diagnosed as mentally ill by Lawful aligned
people.

Unfortunately, it's frequently Lawful-{Neutral|Evil} judging Chaotic-Good,
which is a travesty.

~~~
drharris
Not only that, but the trend is cemented by the fact that only Lawful people
are allowed to diagnose in the first place, so there is no checks or balances.
In D&D, a few rolls could take care of that, but in the real world you'll get
some hefty jail time... and a diagnosis.

~~~
csense
Real life _would_ be a lot more fun if it had a better DM.

~~~
shurane
Isn't that what different countries are?

------
guylhem
In the first paragraph is the little gem : authority needs to a) know b) be
honest c) care for anti-authoritarians to accept it.

 _> I know that degrees and credentials are primarily badges of compliance.
Those with extended schooling have lived for many years in a world where one
routinely conforms to the demands of authorities._

Yes! Wow. Just read the article - not a single idea I'd disagree with, except
maybe the conclusion :

 _> Americans desperately need anti-authoritarians to question, challenge, and
resist new illegitimate authorities and regain confidence in their own common
sense_

I don't know if anyone desperately needs anything.

However, the abc test to test how legitimate is the authority and how a
diagnosis would be best explained by something this simple thing is something
I'll keep.

------
jasallen
It truly help a lot when you read things like this. I'm 36 years old now, and
have learned to live pretty successfully in society.

But as a child that wants to explore and innovate (or for that matter just
_understand_ the rules I'm following), it often feels impossible to live in a
society that has a rigid set of expectations.

One common refrain from childhood: "If only he would apply himself..." well,
of course, I actually applied myself with a focus that would blister the
brains of the people who said this sort of thing. But I didn't apply myself to
what _they_ wanted.

And that was from the people who even recognized that I had intelligence
worthy of any respect. Many had no idea that I was more than troublemaker (a
ditch-digger some would say). I suppose it is of relevance that I grew up in a
very blue collar environment, and in those environments the expected measure
of success is a stable job with routine and predictable pay increases;
questioning and understanding is not the path to that, acceptance of the
"that's the way it's done" is.

These issues led to a malaise and kind of depression that resulted in me
dropping out of school and joining the Marine Corps (yeah, great idea for an
"anti-authoritarian", but part of me still believed _i_ was the one with the
problem and needed fixing).

The path "back to the world" was a difficult one, and who's to say if that
path is even done -- where _could_ I have been. My decisions were poor back
then, but hell, I was a teenager and living in a world that didn't support me.
Ironically, as I've gained positions of authority over people who themselves
are submissive to authority, I think they have a greater respect for me, than
they do people who are not innovators or independent thinkers.

I still fight the battle constantly, the white collar corporate world is
nearly as unimaginative as the blue collar world -- it's not even about
resisting authority, in fact, a good 'authority' is as good as delegating --
someone trusted to do stuff.

~~~
bjhoops1
I'd be curious to hear about your experiences in the Corps as an anti-
authoritarian sort. I nearly joined the Marines myself out of college but
decided that I was not well suited for it.

~~~
jasallen
Well, I think there is a lot of confusion in this thread: confusing people who
genuinely have serious problems with those to whom the author was referring,
those who are simply differently suited than the majority.

I'd like to think that I'm the latter overall, so, frankly, I didn't fit in,
and I didn't do terribly well, but its mostly a non-story (with regards to
anti-authoritarianism - in other ways I have plenty of stories). I was
average, I mostly tolerated the authority because the threat of not doing so
was a little more than I could bear, and I got the hell out as soon as I
could. Then I was lucky enough to be a smart guy during the original dot-com
bubble and found my way back into the company of people I was more comfortable
with.

------
pchivers
This is a great article. The linked article ("Anti-Authoritarians and
Schizophrenia: Do Rebels Who Defy Treatment Do Better?") is also very
interesting:

"At the 2-year assessment there were no significant differences in severity of
psychosis between schizophrenic patients (SZ) on antipsychotic medications and
SZ not on any medications. However, starting at the 4.5-year follow-ups and
continuing over the next 15 years, the SZ who were not on antipsychotic
medications were significantly less psychotic than those on antipsychotics.”

~~~
illuminate
Sounds like persons who are less functional feel that they need medication
more than those who don't. Not that anyone WANTS neuroleptics, the side
effects sound terrible.

I would imagine that anyone who wants to deal through them is going to
necessarily have more troubles.

------
chris_mahan
Wait, let me guess... As such, they are not allowed to buy weapons, right? How
convenient...

~~~
bjhoops1
Please tell me you don't actually want these folks armed.

~~~
chris_mahan
Wait, weren't the people who fought to make America independent upset with the
King's Authority? Would you not say, today, that they were anti-authorianists?
Would you not say that an oppressive government would use such a "medical
condition" to confiscate guns from people who disagreed with it?

Think hard about this, and ask yourself what you would have done in 1774:
sided with the Revolutionaries, or sided with the Royalists.

~~~
jbooth
Take it easy on the rhetoric.

No, those founding fathers were not anti-authorianists to the degree that
people would call a pathology. The continental congress did not descend into a
bunch of bickering every time someone asked someone else to do something. They
were mostly, from all reports, pretty well-adjusted and got along with each
other civilly even with major disagreements on how to do things.

~~~
ctdonath
But their political opponents would not hesitate to have them declared
pathological, and so proceed to establish "legal" grounds to disarm &
incarcerate (ahem, involuntary commitment to treatment). Many authoritarian
governments have done so to great effect and great harm; ours is heading that
way.

~~~
jbooth
Sort of a non-sequitur here: Someone once called the FOUNDING FATHERS
(freedom!) crazy, therefore we shouldn't restrict documented crazy people from
buying guns?

There is probably a lesson in that disorders that make you inconvenient for
the system are more likely to be recognized/categories than those that make
you a sheep. Fine. I don't think you can generalize from that to "documented
mentally ill should be able to buy guns because what if it's actually a
conspiracy vs them and not just voices in their head? then they can use their
gun to stop the conspiracy.". That seems like pretty awesomely bad policy to
me.

~~~
ctdonath
The problem is defining "crazy" such that the sane are not labeled as such
pursuant to ulterior motives.

------
squozzer
I once worked for a major corporation that celebrated "compliance week" -- not
compliance of a personal nature, but regulatory compliance. Though at times it
seemed hard to distinguish one from the other.

------
205guy
There is a word that hasn't come up in this discussion, and that's Asperger's.
I know some people with Asperger's who are very oppositional and some who are
not. Given that ADHD is sometimes considered the tail end of he Autism-
Asperger's spectrum (not always, this is new and controversial), I think it is
reasonable. As top commenter bjhoops says: "it is probably much more common
that some kinds of mentally ill individuals happen to be anti-authoritarian."

And I don't really agree with it either, but Einstein has often been co-opted
by Asperger's support groups as one of their own.

From my admittedly limited reading on autism, Asperger's, and other behavioral
diagnoses, they are not mental illnesses but rather alternate "wirings" of the
brain. People on this spectrum can (to varying degrees) learn to deal with the
"neuro-typical" world around them, but they can't change their brains. And
these are not one-dimensional conditions: people on the spectrum have any
number of different wiring, from social handicaps to language problems,
hypersensitivity to touch or noise, face recogniition, etc.

I suspect that anti-authoritarianism is one of these dimensions. It can exist
on it's own in an otherwise "neuro-typical" person, but it often gets added to
other deficiencies on the Autism-Asperger's spectrum.

I am not saying that blind adherence to authority is "typical," but I think
there is often a recognition of parental and social authority that is mostly
normal which is what the anti-authoritarian lacks.

------
jasallen
"...I know that degrees and credentials are primarily badges of compliance."
Preach it brother.

------
ritchiea
Previous discussion of this article one year ago
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3642570>

------
rayiner
So in a species that depends on pack/tribe behavior for survival, how is an
inability to follow authority _not_ a mental illness?

~~~
clicks
Okay, so let's go down that line a little bit more.

In a species (alongside a whole host of other species) that depended on rape
for survival, how is an inability to rape not a mental illness? [1] In a
species that depended on rigidly defined gender roles of women child rearing
and men being hunters, how is aberrant behavior not a mental illness?

I think what's happening is you're falling prey to appeal to nature fallacy.
Consider here also the results of the loners, the outliers, the dropouts -- a
lot of them go on to contribute greater value to society than the ones
following the pack/tribe behavior.

[1]: Researchers Thornhill and Palmer say rape is an evolved reproductive
strategy and not a crime of violence. See their piece 'A Natural History of
Rape: The Biological Bases of Sexual Coercion' for more.

~~~
rayiner
The rape analogy is misplaced because humans, unlike say ducks, do not
primarily reproduce through rape.

Also, appeal to nature fallacy is not applicable because I'm not making a
"good" versus "bad" conclusion. I'm thinking of "mental illness" in terms of
whether it's an evolutionary mal-adaptation, not in moral terms.

And while it is true that loners, outliers, and dropouts often contribute
great value to society, it is also true that they also often do great harm to
society (the bell curve is a bitch). Moreover, the bulk of collective social
value is produced by people following the pack/tribe. What happens to the
total productivity of society if everyone acts like the loners, outliers, and
dropouts?

~~~
clicks
_Appeal to nature_ fallacy, not _moralistic_ fallacy:

Appeal to nature: an argument or rhetorical tactic in which it is proposed
that "a thing is good because it is 'natural', or bad because it is
'unnatural'" -- the word 'natural' here has no notion of morality

Moralistic fallacy: a fallacy of assuming that what is desirable is found or
inherent in nature. It presumes that what ought to be—something deemed
preferable—corresponds with what is or what naturally occurs. What should be
moral is assumed a priori to also be naturally occurring.

Though, you may also be confusing appeal to nature fallacy with the
naturalistic fallacy (I made that mistake myself, and corrected it in an edit
3-4 minutes of my having posted the above comment).

Anyway though, getting back to the topic at hand: is it really a worthwhile
exercise identifying these non-severe mental disorders as a real problem? The
latest revision of DSM identifies a good few many hundred disorders, the
average individual has 5-20 mental disorders as they would be identified by
the DSM. At this point an individual with no disorders at all whatsoever is
the strange individual ('in a world where everyone is special, no-one is').

~~~
rayiner
> the word 'natural' here has no notion of morality

But the words "good" and "bad" do. Appeal to nature would be if I said:
"following the pack is good because that's what happens in nature." What I
said was: "in a species that depends on pack behavior to survive, being unable
to follow the pack is a maladaptation." Not that it's "bad" but that one would
imagine that 5,000 years ago if in a tribe that became the modal outlook, the
tribe would quickly die out.

------
UK-AL
I would like to see if there is a relationship between anti-authoritarian and
entrepreneurship.

------
Mz
Not exactly the same thing, but I have long said that if Joan of Arc were
alive today, they would be adjusting her meds to make the voices go away
instead of following her into battle while she played handmaiden to the birth
of modern France.

~~~
mountaingoating
I guess so, but I wouldn't be too negative about it because she probably
wouldn't have gotten burned at the stake.

~~~
Mz
She ended The Hundred Years war. She stopped a great many other people from
suffering and dying. Her fame does not make her suffering "worse" than what
she stopped. France was an occupied land. It was an ugly era that she put an
end to.

------
blaze33
Thanks for sharing. Actually “issues with authority” is exactly what got me
fired ~2 years ago after "assessing whether or not authorities actually know
what they are talking about, are honest, and care about […] people". They
didn't. On any level.

The worst part is how much time and care is needed to fully recover from the
rejection feeling and depression that can ensue.

~~~
mikegagnon
Working at a place like that is a curse. Leaving is a blessing. Getting fired
is a blessing in disguise.

Are you working at a better place now?

------
eliasmacpherson
RSA Animate - Smile or Die <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5um8QWWRvo>

Touches on the same idea of those who are anti authoritarian being sidelined
without reason, and enabling and exacerbating the recent global financial
crisis.

------
jradakov
Good. Now I can use the "anti-authoritarian" card when I tell my boss to go
crunch a biscuit.

~~~
jasallen
You miss the point entirely. "Playing a card" is usually in reference to
having some condition. The author's point is that anti-authoritarian is _no
condition_. So. If you are anti-authoritarian go tell him to "crunch a
biscuit". If you are also not an idiot, have a fallback plan.

------
jokoon
okay guys, can we also talk about good will hunting ?

right.

If therapists had to take care of all the problems caused by society, there'd
be no end.

On top of it, ODD is for kids, not for grown adults.

------
madaxe
The trick is largely to learn when to shut your gob, or say one thing and do
another. I was repeatedly diagnosed with ADHD and ODD in my year of school in
the states - flushed the pills, got expelled (well, forced to leave, as they
didn't want an expulsion on their squeaky clean record).

Back to school in England... "Engaged", "curious", "incisive questions".
Partially down to cultural differences in terms of views on mental health (I'm
merely "eccentric" these days), and partially down to me doing a year long
master class in the states as to how to lie my arse off and pretend to accept
authority while rejecting it.

~~~
LekkoscPiwa
Yeah, and probably an American kid in the UK - and for sure in Eastern Europe
where I currently reside - would be diagnosed with autism ;-) Too quiet, has
no views or opinion of his own, sits still all day. ;-) I love it.

I remember my first days at the office in the US. I was like - am I in a
mental institution with a band of cranky autistic adults now?

And for them I was waaay too crazy. Asked too many questions, talked too much,
walked too much, "rocked the boat" too much.

Finally, they got really offended when I told them that I really came to
believe they must be medicated or have some stuff added to water / food. ;-)
And I loved that too.

I had a friend from LA visiting Poland. He used "dude this is intense" about
10 times an hour. He claimed people drive crazy here, say crazy stories,
generally are crazy, and he was like - is that all for real?

Cultural differences can be huge factor in determining if someone mentally fit
or not.

~~~
jacalata
I happen to know quite a few American kids who moved to countries around the
world and unsurprisingly, none of them were diagnosed with anything. I have
also known Poles who moved to America and other countries and have never
considered them more intense than other people. Maybe your experience says
more about you than the world in general.

~~~
LekkoscPiwa
I used a parallel (exaggerated) to present my point of view.

You see for you it's already "something wrong with you" department. In Eastern
Europe cynicism is just much more common.

The point is that American will feel as if everybody around them has ADHD when
in Poland. And a Pole may (I did!) feel that people suffer from serious autism
when visiting the USA ( office setting in particular). US office vs. Polish
office is like autism vs. adhd to me at least and I have the right to express
that opinion. I'm not saying everybody in the US is autistic and that
everybody in Poland has ADHD. I'm saying people are closer to these
psychological traits: in Poland ADHD, in the US autism.

Also Americans (and I'm one too!) are well known for over medicating their
kids for trivial reasons. I think there are cultural reasons for that too.

------
LekkoscPiwa
I had a teacher in High School who was a genius. He wanted us to think
independently. One time he assigned a homework to the class where each of us
had to study a mental illness of our choice. Mine was narcissism. And we had
to go to a psychologist or psychiatrist, pretend that we have the disease and
the task was to be convincing enough to get diagnosis.

More than 80% of students passed. We were all officialy crazy now, lol.

Now, try pulling it off with pneumonia or flu.

That's the problem with psychology or psychiatry. They can pretend all day
long they are real sciences, but I'm sorry as long as a band of kids can pull
off stuff like this it's not science. It's a complete and total joke.

Parent who have no time for their kids medicating them, so they can rest after
work. Teachers who can't handle the class, so any kid who isn't complete
vegetable must have ADHD, ODD, or whatever. Joke, joke, joke, joke.

~~~
setrofim_
> _And we had to go to a psychologist or psychiatrist, pretend that we have
> the disease and the task was to be convincing enough to get diagnosis._

That sounds like very interesting homework, and the results were certainly
informative. Such experiments are not without risk though. IIRC there was a
researcher that conducted a similar experiment -- got some volunteers with no
history of mental illness go into some psychiatric institutions and fake some
symptoms. The majority of them were able to get admitted with just that. The
problem was getting them out afterwards. Apparently some institutions were
reactant to discharge the "patients" even after they have been informed of the
experiment. (I can't recall the name of the researcher unfortunately, but this
experiment is described in Jon Ronson's "The Psychopath Test"). Once you're
labeled as "crazy", proving that you're not can be difficult, even if your
behavior does not differ from that of "normal" people.

> _That's the problem with psychology or psychiatry [...] It's a complete and
> total joke._

Please don't group psychology and psychiatry together. The former is a
legitimate field of study (whether psychology technically qualifies as a
"science" is debatable), the latter, is, as you say, largely a joke (at least,
in the US). Please also note that the appalling state of psychiatry today
should _not_ be taken to mean that all mental disorders are bull -- there
definitely _are_ very serious mental disorders, and people _do_ need to seek
help if they are suffering from them.

EDIT: Found the book.

The researcher was talking about is David Rosenham:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment>

Also, I was wrong when I said that the hospitals were told about the
experiment -- it was a condition of the experiment that the patients needed to
get out "on their own", though they didn't exhibit any of the symptoms after
the initial interview, and were acting completely "normal" during their stay.

~~~
wololo
"The Psychopath Test" doesn't represent psychology.

Hare's commentary on the book is very enlightening:
[http://www.psychopathysociety.org/images/hare%20commentary%2...](http://www.psychopathysociety.org/images/hare%20commentary%20on%20ronson%20april%2017%202012.pdf)

"This depiction of events ... and my reported reactions to them ... are
complete fabrications. The same can be said of many of his other reports of
our conversations. I can’t help but wonder if some of Ronson’s accounts of his
experiences with others in his book are equally fictionalized."

~~~
setrofim_
> _"The Psychopath Test" doesn't represent psychology._

I'm not claiming that it does. I only mentioned it because that's where I
first read about the Rosenhan experiment. That experiment is _not_
fictionalized (see the Wikipedia link), regardless of whether or not the rest
of the book is.

EDIT: Thanks for the link to Hare's commentary; I haven't read that before.

------
Allower
If anti-authoritarian means "question[ing] whether an authority is a
legitimate one before taking that authority seriously. Evaluating the
legitimacy of authorities includes assessing whether or not authorities
actually know what they are talking about, are honest, and care about those
people who are respecting their authority." than the rest of humanity really
are ignorant fucking sheep.

~~~
snowman41
I personally feel that "Cogito ergo sum" means that taking assertions on faith
is simply foolhardy, because the only opinion that one can truly trust is your
own. Not that you should take my word for it.

