
Franz Liszt: Musician, Celebrity, Superstar - tintinnabula
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/jul/29/franz-liszt-musician-celebrity-superstar-oliver-himes-review-biography
======
yomly
A really interesting character, it's easy to assume the trope of him being a
superficial virtuosic performer / rockstar but that is to miss the man who was
deeply committed to music.

He would regularly champion Chopin's music and went so far as to write a
biography of chopin himself. He was also a huge proponent of Beethoven's works
and did a great deal to spread them through Europe.

As stated in the article, he made a departure from his more showy pieces in
his later life, and the set which I have always been a fan of for
demonstrating this are his "L'années de pèlerinage" \- Years of Pilgrimage.
The Brendel recordings are a good place to start.

~~~
jksmith
What's wrong with being a rock star? Article wreaks a bit from being haughty.

~~~
ktRolster
There's nothing wrong with it, but often they are famous because of their
personality, and have little actual skill, including needing auto-tune or even
lip-syncing performances.

The skill needed to be a rock-star is orthogonal to the skill needed to make
beautiful music, and that is why those skills are worth considering
separately.

~~~
girvo
> _but often they are famous because of their personality, and have little
> actual skill, including needing auto-tune or even lip-syncing performances._

So, we're being haughty then. Because that's... painting in broad strokes, to
say the least.

~~~
ktRolster

      >So, we're being haughty then
    

Well good, you've reached the second level on the hierarchy of disagreement:
[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Graham%27s_Hierarchy...](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg)

Do you have something more substantial to say, or is that it?

------
Jun8
His Paganini Etude No 3
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_campanella](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_campanella))
is astonishing! You can see Valentina Lisitsa play it
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY_eIIFqNxg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY_eIIFqNxg))
and wonder how is this thing even playable.

~~~
rifung
I'd recommend people also watch Evgeny Kissin play it
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0U73NRSIkw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0U73NRSIkw)

if only to get a fair view as many find Valentina Lisitsa.. questionable.

In any case I feel like people either really like or dislike her. My piano
teacher absolutely hates her playing, while she's my friend's favorite
pianist.

Another piece I'd recommend is also Liszt's Mephisto Waltz:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9JbNgPsAkg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9JbNgPsAkg)

~~~
tunesmith
Why do people find Lisitsa's playing questionable? I understand there's
controversy behind her political views but I'm not sure what the problem is
with her playing.

My general problem with many famous pianists is they get too much into the
flash - at certain moments you will hear a wall of sound as they throw clarity
and rhythmic pulse out the window. But her interpretation of La Campanella
seemed to have less of that than Kissin's.

~~~
rifung
I think generally they just find her interpretations to be in poor taste?

My impression is that people who weren't really into classical music before
listening to her are more likely to like her, whereas people who have followed
classical music for a long time are less likely to. I suspect it has something
to do with how they consider certain music should be played. As far as I know,
she was relatively unknown until she posted some videos on YouTube.

Personally I'm not a big fan of her but I don't dislike her; she certain is a
much better player than I am and I have no issue listening to her playing. My
teacher absolutely abhors her playing though..

------
CptMauli
_What he found was a tiny court with few resources, a town of crippling
conventionality and an immediate hostility to himself and his type_

 _But somehow Weimar represents Liszt at his greatest._

I had to smile, in a way this is still the case. The open and immediate
hostility is now more a skepticism. But there are a lot of reasons to stay in
Weimar.

For the Hacker News crowd interesting is, maybe, that Weimar even has a hacker
space:
[https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/Maschinenraum](https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/Maschinenraum)

There are even start ups in and around Weimar (Erfurt, Jena, Ilmenau) although
a lot of those is more traditional entrepreneurship in the optical or medical
area, rather than software. But don't forget Intershop started in Jena and
Prof Karlheinz Brandenburg, the inventor of mp3, is at the Technical
University Ilmenau.

------
rifung
"The scale and unprecedented force of his playing demanded stronger technology
from piano makers – his recitals often required two pianos, as the first was
likely to be destroyed in performance."

Having only played on a modern piano, I can't even imagine how this is
possible..

~~~
scrumper
Modern pianos are pretty marvelous things. Think about just the tension the
huge number of strings applies to the chassis. Then the force a hand is
capable of delivering to the keys, with their delicate linkages connecting
them to the hammers. Then think about 19th century furniture-making
techniques.

~~~
TheOtherHobbes
String tension across the frame of a grand piano is around 17 tons. If a frame
cracked and imploded it would probably kill someone. The modern piano sound is
a direct result of that metal frame combined with three string courses for
most of the range.

Piano design didn't really mature until around 1850. So a lot of the most
famous classical piano music was composed on not-quite-there yet prototype
instruments with a thinner and less powerful sound, and sometimes also a less
sensitive action.

My gf had to play a vintage antique fortepiano in a production last year, and
the solo sound is closer to a fat harpsichord with better dynamics and
slightly random tuning than a modern piano.

It's what Mozart, Beethoven and Haydn would have played: they literally never
heard their music on a modern instrument.

~~~
antognini
> Piano design didn't really mature until around 1850. So a lot of the most
> famous classical piano music was composed on not-quite-there yet prototype
> instruments with a thinner and less powerful sound, and sometimes also a
> less sensitive action.

This is really apparent in the first movement of Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata.
In the original instructions, the pedal was to be held throughout the entire
piece. On a piano of Beethoven's time, that would lead each chord to blend
into the next without overpowering it. But if you try to do that on a modern
piano, the tones are sustained for so long that all the chords get muddled
together and the result is a mess.

------
smortaz
Haven't read the article yet, but I hope they mention Charles Valentin Alkan.
When Liszt heard him play, he declared he was a better pianist. That's saying
something.

Samples of his writing:

[https://youtu.be/QFXBbhutUsk](https://youtu.be/QFXBbhutUsk)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sotFMQRZCx0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sotFMQRZCx0)

~~~
hellofunk
Eh. I vastly prefer Liszt's melodies and harmonic transitions. Alkan's music
is just like listening to scales.

~~~
erez
I don't know who was the better pianist, but Liszt is definitely a better
composer.

~~~
smortaz
Yep!

------
erez
"A biography of a major cultural figure should not start by sounding like a
performing arts undergraduate describing themself on Twitter."

That's the quote of the article for me. I think there is way too much emphasis
on Liszt the performer and his earlier symphonic music than on his later work.
At the latest stage of his life, he developed an almost post-modern attitude
towards the piano, as a percussion instrument rather than a melodic one, and
also began experimenting with atonal music. These are two of the most dominant
aspects of early modern (i.e. 20th century) music, seen in Lizst work as early
as 1885.

------
Tycho
he's one of those people in the running for 'most gifted person who ever
lived' IMO

as purely a composer he's somewhat overshadowed by some of his great
contemporaries, but the Piano Sonata in B Minor combines all the strengths of
his music into a kind of unparalleled masterpiece with fascinating
oscillations between struggle and serenity

------
intopieces
As long as we're sharing examples of Liszt's genius, I highly recommend his
transcriptions of Beethoven's symphonies; Cyprien Katsaris released a 6-disc
set of them and it's absolutely phenomenal[0]

[0][https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Liszt-Symphonies-Piano-
Tran...](https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Liszt-Symphonies-Piano-
Transcriptions/dp/B0000D8HDF)

------
dpkp
Extremely negative review -- wow.

~~~
Ericson2314
Heh everybody else talking about the man himself leads me to think few
actually read this.

------
ktRolster
Good to learn from him:

 _He had very little jealousy towards other major creative figures, though
Chopin, Schumann, Brahms and even Wagner did not always respond to him so
generously. He supported the development not only of these major figures, but
of fascinating minor ones such as Joachim Raff and Peter Cornelius, and any
number of great pianists._

------
adrusi
I listened to this podcast about Liszt a few months ago and recommend it to
anyone who wants to learn more

[http://www.missedinhistory.com/podcasts/lisztomania/](http://www.missedinhistory.com/podcasts/lisztomania/)

------
edem
He is actually Hungarian and should be called "Liszt Ferenc". "Liszt" means
flour in Hungarian by the way so it is like "Frank Flour".

