
Chris Crawford on Mortality - jcw
http://www.erasmatazz.com/Personal/page70/page453/Sixty.html
======
edw519
I know OP meant well, but I hated this. I hate the beads. I hate the jars. I
hate the thinking behind all of this.

For the record, I'm almost as old as OP and this is all the opposite of how I
think. I cherish every day. I can't wait to get to work. And to play. And to
eat good food, drink good beer, and hang out with good friends and family.
Yesterday, I jogged through the woods, emailed 15 friends, had cake and ice
cream with my mother, hung out on hacker news, and wrote some really cool
code. Today will probably be even better.

Moving a bead from one jar to the other is not only depressing, it's sick.
Throw out those jars, OP, and get on doing what you love.

I don't care how old I am or how old anyone else is. I don't even want to
think about my death, I just want to keep on living my life.

I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather did, not screaming and yelling
like everyone else in the car.

~~~
AngryParsley
_I don't even want to think about my death, I just want to keep on living my
life._

Aging is ridiculously unfair, but ignoring it doesn't stop it from happening.
The Reaper keeps track of the beads whether or not you do. People get old.
Their bodies and minds slowly break down. At some point they have to stop
working, stop driving, stop doing lots of things they love doing.

This accounting of days sounds depressing at first, but I can speak from
experience: you soon go back to your normal level of happiness, but with a
more accurate view of reality. I think a similar thing happens with terminally
ill patients, although the time scale is shorter.

The terminal illness analogy maps pretty well to aging. So much so that I
encourage people to donate to anti-aging research such as the Methuselah
Foundation (<https://www.mfoundation.org/?pn=mj_donate>) or SENS
(<http://www.sens.org/donate>). I just donated $50 the latter.

~~~
adamzap
How is aging ridiculously unfair?

~~~
AngryParsley
It's likely that many people who are alive today will be around to take
advantage of future anti-aging treatments. So if you're young enough, you win
the birth lottery. Hooray, indefinite life span is yours. Otherwise, you
wither and die.

How is that _not_ ridiculously unfair?

~~~
jonnathanson
Who said life was fair? Why should death be?

I look at it this way: the near-eternity that occurred before my birth didn't
bother me. So I won't be bothered by the eternity that occurs after my death.
I won't be around to contemplate it.

You can take this line of thinking to either of its natural conclusions: the
morbid one or the "seize the day" one. I'm somewhere in the middle. I try to
seize the day, but I'm a realist.

Some days I grab life by the nuts. Some days I count the beads.

~~~
AngryParsley
Life _isn't_ fair but it _should_ be.

 _I won't be bothered by the eternity that occurs after my death._

Would you mind if you died tomorrow? What about in a year? 10 years? 100?
1,000? If you had a choice in the matter, would you _ever_ want to age and
die? Would you condemn others to the same fate?

I want to be alive tomorrow. Tomorrow I will want to be alive the next day.
And so on. So I want to be alive indefinitely. This may or may not be
possible, but it doesn't change the fact that it is desirable.

~~~
jonnathanson
Don't get me wrong; I wouldn't mind an eternal or greatly extended life. But
seeing as how I will not be cognizant of my nonexistence upon my death, I
don't think it's worth getting too hung up about. I am probably too old to
make the cutoff for the singularity -- or whatever similar event might kick
off the path to eternal or thousand-year lifespans. So I find that it's best
to maintain a cautiously optimistic attitude about my mortality. I am not
expecting immortality, but it would be nice.

 _Would you condemn others to the same fate?_

I don't think that's a fair question, given that I haven't said anything of
the sort. I would love for everyone to live as long as they could and prosper
to whatever extent they could. I bear no animus to anyone who will win the
birth lottery and be born into the age of 1,000-year lifespans. Similarly, I
do not revel in the unfortunate fates of those who were born in the dark ages.

------
lkrubner
At the risk of proving that I am immature (since these words can be read as me
rejecting my mortality, which he mentions in the article) I wonder why so few
of these posts acknowledge the possibility that new technology will allow life
to be extended?

A lot of people seem to have a mental block regarding the possibility that our
biological clock, like almost everything else, may eventually be changed by
technology.

I am especially surprised by science fiction writers. Why are there old people
in so much sci fi? Why are there old people on shows like Star Trek? Does
anyone seriously think we will grow old and die 500 years from now? And isn't
sci fi suppose to lead the way in this area? I mean, what is the point of sci
fi, if it doesn't help people imagine how the future might be different?
(Obviously, I'm talking about that branch of sci fi that avoids fantasies and
dystopias)

Virginia Postrel has sort of hit on this theme in her writing, where she
wonders why sci fi tends to be less optimistic than it used to be. The future
is no longer what it once was:

<http://www.dynamist.com/weblog/archives/002834.html>

A lot of things that used to be sci fi are now real: space travel, global
communication devices, computers that can fit in your pocket, medical
treatments for once untreatable illnesses, etc.

It would be interesting to have a poll on Hacker News and ask people how long
they think they will live. Since Hacker News is a community of forward looking
individuals (and pro-technology too), such a poll would give a sense of how
much a forward thinking group thinks medical technology is going to change in
the next 60 years.

~~~
rationalbeaver
"Does anyone seriously think we will grow old and die 500 years from now?"

Absolutely. Here's a few reasons why I think that way:

A)Even if we somehow solve the problem of aging, some people (quite possibly
many or even most) will still choose to live a "natural" life for any number
of reasons.

B)History suggests that we will not continue our current rate of progress
indefinitely. Who knows how long it may take to recover from the inevitable
disruptions.

C)I suspect that, like cancer or practical flying cars, aging is a harder
problem than we think it is. Just because we can envision the end result does
not mean we can achieve it.

D)Based on current medical trends, any effective anti-aging treatment is
likely to be so expensive that the vast majority of people will not be able to
afford it.

E)In the end, entropy always wins.

My apologies for all the pessimism. :)

~~~
lkrubner
I assume you are just joking with the reference to entropy. It is only
relevant to closed systems, and organisms are not closed systems. We can
remove entropy from a system using energy. That is what food is for - it gives
us the energy to remove entropy from our bodies.

------
reasonattlm
An excellent example of how blinkered most people are by the world in which
they grew up - people are indoctrinated to live the life their parents lived.
But we don't live in that world, and the number of beads in the jar can be
radically increased through the application of biotechnology over the decades
to come.

[Ob reference: <http://www.sens.org> ]

If we choose to do that of course. But if everyone walks through life with
blinkers, assuming that it can only be the same as that of their parents, then
nothing will change.

The future depends on people who break their indoctrination and work to make
things different. Acceptance of what you saw as a child is death and stasis.

~~~
nir
If you're 60 now, you don't necessarily have "decades to come", so the
author's sense of urgency is understandable.

~~~
reasonattlm
You could focus on supporting the cryonics industry instead, if your judgement
is that you're on the wrong side of the line no matter what. The same point
stands: if you are blinkered, you will not do this.

<http://www.longevitymeme.org/topics/cryonics.cfm>

~~~
nir
The author is not going to single handedly push forward the cryogenics or life
extension industries.

Maybe life will be significantly longer in the near future, maybe not. In the
60s we expected moon colonies around now and in the 50s top researchers
considered AI almost around the corner. Science predictions are meaningless.
From what I see right now my parents at their 60s aren't much different from
my grandparents at the same age.

------
powrtoch
Putting a finite number of beads in a jar to represent your mortality seems
like one of the most harmful psychological priming effects you could
undertake. Short of hiring an assassin, I don't know of a better way to ensure
that you'll die within a month of some specified date.

If someone recommended that you prepare yourself for your failures by
repeating to yourself 50 times a day "I am certain to horrendously screw up
everything that I undertake", would that seem like sage advice? All I can say
is "don't be surprised when you're right".

Terrible idea.

~~~
hnal943
The beads represented years of productivity. How many 80 year olds do you know
that are not retired from their life's work? Not many.

~~~
powrtoch
I wonder if this is related to the number of 40 year olds convinced that being
useless at 80 is unavoidable.

------
alexwestholm
This post brings up the connection between desire for achievement and
mortality. The book "The Denial of Death" by Ernest Becker is an excellent
perspective on this phenomenon. The central premise of the book is that, in
order to feel comfortable about our own inevitable mortality, we seek
achievements that make us feel "heroic" and offer the potential to outlive our
physical bodies, thereby diminishing the impact of dying.

I wholeheartedly recommend the book to anyone, Mr. Crawford in particular.
What he describes in this post is clearly in line with Becker's concept of an
"immortality project."

~~~
tomjen3
And that is properly why we have a standard of living today that is so high as
it is.

~~~
alexwestholm
Quite likely. I'm not trying to say that this phenomenon is a bad thing
(neither is Becker, really), merely that it's a way to look at an individual's
motivations. If you accept the premise, then your conclusion is absolutely
right. Becker's point, in fact, is that it's a driving force behind much of
what we'd call progress and it affects, whether consciously or not, most of
the significant decisions we make.

~~~
jonhendry
The implications on life extension are interesting. If people could live
forever, would we just faff about? There's always tomorrow, after all.

~~~
hnal943
Reminds me of the HPLD Civilization from Lem's The Cyberaid:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberiad>

------
mrcharles
Not to seem crass, but one would think if his goal was to change games, he
might have spent more time actually making them. Being inactive for 20 years
(or two stripes in his vase), probably hasn't helped. For all his talk of
making sure he doesn't waste a day, it seems he's wasted a lot.

I see this more as a warning story than anything. If you truly love something
and want to contribute: Never stop.

The irony is that during his time of not contributing, others have risen and
passed him, contributing more to games than he ever did.

The reality is that I had to google him to find out who he was. That is not
someone who is committed to his craft.

~~~
asmithmd1
His games pushed them limits and set the standards for what was possible with
a computer game in the early 80's.

He literally wrote the book on how to write games for the Atari 800
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Re_Atari>

I don't think he stopped -- he tried to pull the industry in a direction he
wanted to see it go and has not (yet) been successful.

When Java first started appearing on cell phones in the early 00's I tracked
him down and sent him an email asking if he was interested in porting some of
his old hits to a phone as they were about as powerful as a 80's PC. He
responded with the source code of one I said I enjoyed, Eastern Front 1942,
and said go for it. I spent a couple hours trying to make sense of the 6502
Assembly code and quit.

~~~
colomon
That's what 6502 emulators are for! Do you still have the source?

~~~
asmithmd1
It is now online: <http://www.atariarchives.org/APX/showinfo.php?cat=20095>

Porting it was a good idea when the Motorola RAZR was the new hotness, but it
doesn't hold up as well now that the processor in my iPhone is almost as fast
as the one in my laptop: [http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-400-800-xl-xe-
eastern-f...](http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-400-800-xl-xe-eastern-
front-1941_5986.html)

------
michaels0620
Here is his page on the Le Morte d'Arthur project that he references.

<http://www.erasmatazz.com/page78/page397/LMDNotes.html>

~~~
ldargin
That is actually for a very old version. You can run the current version using
the SWAT tool. Open"LMD.stw". Run "Lizards->Storyteller Lizard". The download
link is here: <http://www.storytron.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=1428>

------
raganwald
Just out of curiosity... A nano-poll. How many people have spent significant
time playing Chris's actual games, like "Balance of Power" (my personal
favourite)?

~~~
asmithmd1
I played Balance of power for too many hours until I finally figured out the
only way to win was to not play.

I also wasted tons of time on Eastern Front 1942. A great game because UI was
so well thought out

~~~
raganwald
I really enjoyed "Guns or Butter," it really taught me something about
economies and infrastructures

------
civilian
My grandfather continued to breed horses until he was 87. He didn't make a
decision to stop, he simply had a stroke and has been restricted to a
wheelchair.

Now he's 94 and he avidly reads books in English, German and Danish. He's
trying to learn about the internet, but hasn't really gotten down the concept
of "surfing the web".

Yes, you can be productive past your 80s. I plan to be, but I also have six
decades until I'm there.

------
rottencupcakes
I'm a little disappointed. The title of the post and the beginning of the
article had me expecting an interesting piece on mortality and life and
regrets, but it ended up being an explanation of interactive story telling and
an almost non sequitur story.

I loved the bead idea though. Pure genius to really nail in how finite life
is. It hits home for all.

~~~
alan-crowe
The post takes an individualistic view. For an alternative look at
<http://genealogy.math.ndsu.nodak.edu/index.php>, the Mathematics Genealogy
Project, which traces the tree from supervisor to PhD student.

Life is short and you cannot expect to achieve much, so be sure to provide a
proper write up of the hacks that were hardest to discover. Teach them. Then
they will not be lost and progress can accumulate.

~~~
jonhendry
Crawford has extensive writings at his website, and written a couple of books,
and I think taught some, so he's arguably made the effort to pass his work
along, in addition to keeping track of where he stands wrt mortality.

------
daredevildave
I wonder if the iPad and e-readers will provide s better platform for Chris's
Interactive Fiction ideas than the Desktops/Laptops. It always seemed like IF
was books++ and reading the tablet/e-readers are far better suited to this.

Maybe he was just 20 years ahead of the tech?

------
rozim
The journey is the reward, though it may not seem like it.

------
deadmansshoes
There are hundreds of games that revolve around stories, and always have been.
Not sure what is so special about the OP's approach.

~~~
ldargin
In those games, the plot is either pre-written, or based on fixed branching
trees, like the choose-your-own-adventure books. In Storytron, the plot is
dynamic, based on the user' actions in a dramatic environment.

~~~
deadmansshoes
Ah ok. Sounds interesting.

