
Salary negotiations for techies - jerome_etienne
http://jacquesmattheij.com/Salary+negotiations+for+techies
======
edw519
There's one other huge factor at work here (for many programmers, anyway). I'm
tempted to call it the "wimp factor", but that's too negative, so I'll just
call it the "introvert factor". I'm a perfect example...

I was always small for my age and looked nerdy with my glasses and attraction
to books, etc. I was always picked last for sports teams, drew little
attention from girls, and was usually the first one to be bullied. It even
happened in my own family, subconsciously I hope. It was always easier to pick
on the little guy to get what you want.

Fast forward to adulthood, and not much has changed, especially with bosses.
It seems like my boss was always a sales/business guy, extroverted, and bigger
than me. His/her natural reaction was to "bully", probably because they knew
they could get away with it. This was for almost everything: project
management, discussions about work, and of course, money.

No more. I don't know exactly when it happened, but I decided not to take this
shit any more. The more anyone picked on me, the harder I shot back, right
between the eyes. Nothing pisses me off more than being bullied, especially
about money.

This is not natural behavior for me. (I imagine if it was natural, I would
have become a sales person or a lawyer.) I have to consciously work hard to
stick up for myself. But as soon as I paint the other person, especially my
boss, as a bully, I put myself on even ground. And as soon as they see that,
they understand that they can no longer take advantage of me. Only then can I
be treated like everyone else.

~~~
jnovek
So, what do you do (or have you done) if your boss is a fairly rational geek-
type?

I'm a geek and am sympathetic to the problems you've described, but for me
negotiating salaries is every bit as miserable from the other side of the
fence (I run a startup) for the same reasons (introverted, etc.). When I
encounter engineers who have been "hardened" by crummy bosses in the past, I
often just toss salary negotiations off onto my business and sales-minded
cofounder who doesn't mind playing hardball.

~~~
ScottBurson
"Engineers suck at negotiating, so don't negotiate, be fair." From
[http://blognewcomb.squarespace.com/essays/2010/10/14/cult-
cr...](http://blognewcomb.squarespace.com/essays/2010/10/14/cult-
creation.html)

~~~
seltzered
I love this post. The problem is that many people (including myself) are not
working for (and possibly won't find) managers with this view towards hiring.

Many managers hire people as a sudden reactionary event ("we have an open rec,
we've got to hire before the rec closes!"), leading to rushed hiring
decisions, and then negotiation issues a year later where you ended up hiring
someone (and they took the offer) out of immediacy / desperation, and the
employee ends up leaving or accepts the lack of interest and doesn't work to
his/her full potential.

------
ericb
It is always easiest to get a big jump by moving to a new job. Your company,
and future companies anchor on the salary you are paid now. When recruiters or
hiring managers ask, don't give out that number at negotiation time.

Instead, here is my hack: when a recruiter first calls, be blunt with them.
Ask "do you know the salary range for the position?" and if it isn't great,
say "Sorry, I'm only looking at senior roles that can pay in the 115-125 range
because I have n years and a strong background in x." Keep in mind that
something around the lower number of the range you give is what the offer will
come in at if you eventually get hired--the recruiter is taking notes. If the
recruiter is not sure about the upper end of the employer's range, he or she
may even call the company and confirm for you by feeling out what they would
pay their "best candidate."

If your number is beyond the range for the position, move on. If not, you've
set a price for yourself, in advance, set an expectation that you are worth
that price, and sent the message through the recruiter without ever having to
negotiate a thing.

If you're thinking "do I really want whoever is hiring me to have to pay a
recruiter?" the answer should actually be yes. Why? People who pay recruiters
1-want someone badly enough to pay extra for them, 2-are spending their time
on more important things, 3-have the money to pay a recruiter, and so are
showing at least some budgetary strength and flexibility and 4-recruiters will
sell you to the company, and act as a non-threatening channel to pass
information like "I have another offer at 110 with work from home 2 days a
week I'm considering."

edit: minor edits to clarify whose "range" I meant.

Also, if it was unclear, to get recruiters contacting you, put your resume on
monster.com and make it public. Then sign in/update it every now and then as I
think that bumps you to the top and shows you as recently active.

~~~
Peroni
I wish more people took your attitude. That last paragraph nailed it for me.
As a tech recruiter I get treated with such disregard by experienced
candidates as it's assumed we are a purely and simply a middle-man.

 _Keep in mind that something around the lower number of the range is what the
offer will come in at_

Not strictly true. Every employer wants to pay as little as possible obviously
to keep costs down but if the salary range is, for example: £100k to £120k and
it's clearly communicated to the employer that your minimum expectation for
the role is going to be £120k then there is no reason why you would ever end
up being offered much less. The key, as you mentioned is to be clear with the
recruiter from the beginning. Recruiters have no reason to lie about the
salary. Bottom line is, the more you get paid, the more we get paid. It's in
my best interests to get you the highest possible salary on offer and I won't
waste your time, my clients time or my own time putting you forward if you
tell me your minimum is £120k and the client told me their absolute top end is
around £110k.

~~~
ericb
Ah, this was just a miscommunication. What I meant is that if I, as a
candidate, say "110-120" when communicating my expectations the offer will
probably be closer to 110 min I listed than 120. I didn't mean to imply
employers always come in at the bottom of their listed range in a job listing.

~~~
dpritchett
Thanks for posting that. Here's a great overview of negotiations and the
"anchoring" strategy you describe:
[http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2008/03/16/bargaining-with-your-
ri...](http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2008/03/16/bargaining-with-your-right-brain/)

------
tptacek
Some related advice I just gave a family member on this subject:

In most mature companies, you're reviewed on a cycle, and the bump you get is
preprogrammed according to an HR spreadsheet. The conversation that results
from this is not a real salary negotiation. Your goal needs to be to break out
of the cycle.

What I think you should try is, let the review run, and get your HR-approved
comp pellet. Then say,

"Thanks for increasing my comp. I appreciate it. I have a question. What were
the factors that led you to raise my salary?"

They'll give a platitudinous answer. Let them. Then say,

"That makes sense. I have another question. Over the past year, I did XXX,
YYY, and ZZZ. You didn't mention these things. That's fine! But I'd like to
make sure I'm putting my energy into things that the business values here.
Instead of XXX, YYY, and ZZZ, what should I do?"

Then have the conversation, in specific terms, and _follow up with an email
recapping the conversation_.

I have a couple theories about this approach:

(1) (Extremely important and something I know to be valid:) Business isn't a
meritocracy. The winners know how to market themselves. Coders look over each
others shoulders on Github and developer a sense of who the bad-asses are.
Successful business people always broadcast their wins. You need to seek out
and seize opportunities to toot your horn on the record. This is something
tangential to salary negotiation that introverted and meritocratic tech people
also suck at.

(2) The "objectives" most people are given at salary reviews are inevitably
vague. This serves the purpose of the business by making comp something out of
the control of both the team member and the manager.

(3) Even if you don't want to push for a bigger bump (and most of you, if you
think about it seriously, _don't_ , or you'd already be making more money), it
is still in your long term interests to establish a winning track record _on
your terms_. If you leave it to the managers to decide what goes on the track
record, you will lose out to every member of your team who is better at
politics and marketing than you are.

~~~
bcrawford
The truth is: most companies have no interest in providing you a big bump as
their additional input will not dramatically improve your output, if at all.
If you want to market yourself better - then do it where it counts: get out
there and interview.

At my last job, I was being paid at a mid-level admin rate but was expected to
do senior-level engineering and even architectural work (I had proven that I
could). The best they could do is 3-10% (and even that was pulling teeth) per
year. I had already been there several years and it would have taken me
several more to finally make what I should have been making all along... minus
the opportunity for raises based on that income.

In the end: I went out, interviewed, and negotiated a salary elsewhere at such
an insanely high increase (just under 40%) that I figured my then-current
employer would just show me the door and say thanks for my time. Much to my
surprise, despite having a hard time squeaking out a few extra K before, they
were not only offering to match my offer but exceed it by an appreciable
margin.

The moral of the story: a lot of employers will aim to profit on your
complacency. Period. It is more profitable to pay you the least as possible as
long as possible. They got damn good (if I do say so myself) engineer at a
steep discount. Even if I had taken their offer (which I didn't), it would
have taken me a couple more years just for my pay to normalize to what it
should have been all along.

~~~
euroclydon
Everyone says, "don't take the counter offer."

Here's what I'm wondering: Why can't rank-and-file employees negotiate some
type of agreement where they get paid to stay? It doesn't make any sense that
companies put a "value" on retention, but don't put a $$$ value on it.

~~~
anamax
> Why can't rank-and-file employees negotiate some type of agreement where
> they get paid to stay?

It's called salary and other compensation.

> It doesn't make any sense that companies put a "value" on retention, but
> don't put a $$$ value on it.

You're missing the point. Once someone has accepted an offer from somewhere
else, they're very likely to leave soon even if they accept a counter-offer.
As a result, money spent on them is wasted.

Effective retention spending happens before people decide to leave.

~~~
wisty
I don't think that's they point they are missing. They know that an employees
who shops is "damaged goods", but they don't know why employers don't give
pre-emptive raises to everyone, and avoid the confrontations altogether.

The point they are missing is, that companies know they can skimp on
'retention bonuses', because only a few employees will shop for a better
offer.

Would you rather hire a hard-working, but downtrodden slave; or a hired gun
who's only staying because you are paying them what you are worth? Exactly.

The only solution is for enough employees to churn their way to decent
positions, so companies are forced to _assume_ that an underplayed employee
will quit.

------
netmau5
This is all good advice. I recently had to negotiate a raise for myself, and I
think the critical insight is that you need to be willing to walk. If you are
comfortable being without work for a little while, great. Otherwise, go seek
out other opportunities so you have the confidence to act when they don't give
you what you want.

The most important thing you can do is to take a close look at what value you
provide for the company. Your dev manager will definitely care about how
difficult it will be to replace you, but once you leave the technical
stratosphere, the only thing that matters is your effect on the bottom line.
Consider what you've done to make a dent and be sure that those efforts are
communicated up the chain of command, even if you have to do it yourself.

I asked for a raise, got half of what I wanted, and began the process of
looking elsewhere. My managers wanted to keep me and noticed that I wasn't
particularly happy with the result. A week later, they made the difference and
then some with a bonus vesting at the end of the year. In the end, I got more
than I asked for and the company was able to provide it in a way that made
sense for them financially.

I love my job so it took me many more months to act than it should have for
fear of losing it. But, like jacquesmattheij said, you've got to realize that
neither party has a long-term obligation to each other- this is a business
relationship, first and foremost.

~~~
stcredzero
_the critical insight is that you need to be willing to walk_

This is _the_ critical insight! This also applies in other business deals like
sales and hiring. If you are desperate, if you _have_ to get the job or close
the deal, then you are meat. The other party can sense this (through instincts
that have been honed over millions of years of evolution) and they know that
they can string you along.

This is exactly what is happening with the super-slick sales guy who can't
seem to close the deal but keeps on coming back to the devs for that one
additional feature. This is what happens to the startup with the one big
client that keeps stringing them along. This is also why nerds can't close the
deal with women and why many people end up staying in dead-end jobs.

Be willing to walk. Get yourself the resources so you can walk. (It's not a
lot. When he was struggling, Humphrey Bogart had a $100 bill in his sock
drawer, and whenever the world got him down, he looked at it and thought to
himself, "I don't need those jerks. Screw them!")

Value your independence most of all, be looking for the best value for you,
and create genuine value for those you interact with. The rest will follow.

------
siculars
My Rules for Negotiation:

1\. Always be willing to walk away.

2\. Never, ever, take the first offer.

3\. Never take an offer immediately. Always sleep on it.

4\. Never base your worth on "comps" aka. comparable salaries. You are an
individual with your own "value add" to put it in marketing/sales/management
speak.

5\. Always remember that you always, always work for yourself. Your current
employer just happens to be paying for your time now. Most everyone I meet
when asked "who do you work for?" will say so and so company. But in reality
they have no more commitment to you than you do to the stranger on the street.
Always know that everything you do you do to extend your knowledge, your power
and your influence. I always say "I work for myself. So and so just happens to
be paying me right now."

~~~
adrianwaj
"work for" should really be "work with." Powers that be prefer it to be the
former so that they feel they have less work and more freedom from it.

------
DevX101
Just throwing a crazy idea out in the wild here: Have a service where a
professional negotiates salary on your behalf.

1\. Is there interest in this? 2\. Would this be feasible?

Employers sure as hell wouldn't like it, but I wonder if they'd tolerate it.

~~~
brk
This would only work if you did it in scale. It would be hard to have someone
negotiate just on your behalf, there is more strength in numbers.

If you could get a unified group of employees to all sign an agreement to be
represented as a group, then you would have collective bargaining power...

~~~
jedsmith
United Computer Nerds Local 0x55AA?

~~~
krakensden
Something about that name suddenly makes me want a union. Or maybe a t-shirt.

~~~
Natsu
Should get out the list of hex words that was posted to HN a while back. There
have to be more interesting hex strings than 0x55AA.

~~~
metageek
0xDEADBEEF

------
bioh42_2
The fastest and easiest way to raise your salary is to change jobs. Here's
some very unorthodox advice that actually works quite well in practice.

1\. Call a good headhunter, let them negotiate salary for you. Finding a
_good_ headhunter can be hard. And be prepared to refuse high paying positions
you don't think would work for you. Expect the headhunter to push you a bit
but know that eventually they will get the message and look for something
which both pays a lot AND is what you want.

2\. Interview for another company and do one of the biggest "don'ts" there is
- Tell them what you are making now and that's you're not looking to leave
unless they offer a lot more.

The above two things are strongly discouraged, but in practice both work
remarkably well.

Getting a big raise form the company you are already working for, is always
going to be much harder. And unless you really, really don't want to leave
your current company, it is much easier to find another job.

~~~
wyclif
Why would those things be discouraged (by people giving good negotiation
advice) if they work well?

~~~
kemayo
Using a headhunter is often discouraged because they'll take a cut of your
salary for the first X months. Thus if you can get placed via your own
connections you can plausibly get a higher salary because they won't be paying
the headhunter as well.

Telling a potential employer how much you're making now is often discouraged
because it gives them a perceived valuation for you, which might make them
reluctant to go too much higher.

------
jswinghammer
I think salary history is usually the strongest card you have. If I make X at
my current job you will need to make me a comparable offer or you don't get
me. It takes awhile to get there but if you make sure you get yearly raises it
won't take long. I would usually quit without a yearly raise or a very good
explanation.

The market is in your favor as a programmer. If you have even the hint of a
clue it's even better. I remember 4-5 years ago being on a phone screen and
was asked what if any books I was reading and when I listed them he said "The
job is yours' if you want it." I didn't but it was enlightening. I walked into
my bosses office the next day and said I want a 20k raise and got it.

~~~
saw-lau
Does anybody have any experience of withholding what their current salary is
when asked? I'm a terrible negotiator by my own admission and always blurt out
what I'm on immediately when asked in interviews or by recruiting agents (and
I'm tediously honest enough to actually say the real value and not a 10%
increase that all my friends tell me to add).

If I turned round and said 'I'm sorry, that information's irrelevant,' what
would happen?

~~~
bluesnowmonkey
They'll probably be offended. If they ask, just answer, because the kind of
people who ask that question are generally not in the mood for mind games.
Direct questions deserve direct answers. If you're looking for a salary jump,
just say that, and be prepared to justify it. If you can't back it up, you
were just bluffing anyway. Don't base your negotiating strategy on a bluff.

~~~
Dylanlacey
It's not a mind game. It's a simple truth. It is totally irrelevant.

Asking is it's own mind game, because they're not asking in good faith,
they're asking so they can bully you into accepting a lesser offer. They
either don't know what is fair OR they do but want to go "Well we don't pay
more then 10% of what you're already on" which has NOTHING to do with your
value.

~~~
bluesnowmonkey
It's a complex truth. Irrelevant or not, you know that whatever figure you
give is likely to be what they offer. So you'd just answer if it was the
figure you want. Refusing to answer signals that you're asking for _more_ than
you used to make. And it's a pretty clear signal. It's not like they'll just
go, "Hey, I guess you're right, wonder why I asked in the first place?"

They've already got it in their minds that you're supposed to get the same old
salary. It's not so much bullying as just a different perspective on the
world. A mindset. You can try to be that guy who finally shows them the light,
or you can look at your options in a pragmatic sense. And creating conflict
with the guy interviewing you is not super pragmatic.

Edit: One other point. Something is worth what people will pay, by definition.
If someone offers you less than you're worth, then by definition you have a
better option. So go take the better option. If everyone is offering you the
same figure, then by definition that's what you're worth.

~~~
Dylanlacey
Why not just ask what you want, then? If you're leaving somewhere, there's
probably a good chance it's about money. Even if it's not, the only reason to
ask in this fashion is because every now and then you get someone who low
balls themselves.

Otherwise saying "What do you want?" is just as useful without the judgmental
overtones of not looking above your station.

------
patio11
Businesses pay for value, not for work successfully completed as requested.
Want to hack something? Either hack the org chart and get assigned to where
you provably make money, or hack your job duties such that you can measure how
much money each project translates into.

The first thing I do for new clients is get metrics (or set up systems to do
so), because you can best believe that when they move in the right direction
I'm charging more next time.

~~~
dpritchett
_To get rich you need to get yourself in a situation with two things,
measurement and leverage. You need to be in a position where your performance
can be measured, or there is no way to get paid more by doing more. And you
have to have leverage, in the sense that the decisions you make have a big
effect._

<http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html>

------
nathanb
> Typically, in a mature company the salaries of the dev team are a rounding
> error on the total operation.

Depends on the company. For a mature software development company the
engineers' salaries are likely to be quite a large line item. This is
especially the case since sales are generally paid on commission and carry
quotas, so there's no reason to assume that in a company with a decent focus
on R&D this statement will be true.

------
Jd
Great article, although there are a couple of things that probably should be
mentioned:

(1) Part of the reason programmers are bad negotiators are because they don't
usually have highly cultivated social skills. If by some chance a programmer
is a budding socialite, there is a good chance he/she isn't that great of a
programmer.

(2) Trying to get compensation derived from worth to company is not a bad idea
except -- and this is a big except -- it can create additional pressures on
the person delivering. If you are the best member of a team and also being
compensated more than the other members of the team, your management is going
to consistently want more value from you and they are going to likely want
that in the form of tangible and immediate value, not a refactoring of this or
that or some cool experimental project. Which is to say, the more highly
compensated you are, the less likely that you will actually be able to enjoy
the work you are doing. As far as I'm concerned that is a very good reason to
either (1) accept a lower salary on the basis of the factors mentioned or (2)
work as a consultant at a high hourly rate and spend your free time on other
more interesting projects.

(3) This is related to (2), but people don't work as well when they are
thinking about compensation (e.g. the surprising truth about what motivates us
short film <http://ow.ly/1s8Y9r>). Definitely consultants in general are much
worse programmers than hobbyists (I've worked with both), although hobbyists
may not be the best people to rely on when you are facing a hard deadline.
What can you do about it? For me, I think the simple answer is simply do what
you love doing and make sure you have enough money to keep on doing it --
which is to say, don't worry about money all that much.

But maybe I'm still in that typical programmer paradigm...

~~~
djacobs

      If by some chance a programmer is a budding socialite, 
      there is a good chance he/she isn't that great of 
      a programmer.
    

I strongly disagree. I know plenty of uber-social hackers who are good at
compartmentalizing code and "being in the zone". They show up at a party and
instantly the tech-speak is gone, and pop culture references and empathy turn
on.

So let's not box us all into this good programmer-vs.-socialite binary.

~~~
cabose07
I would have to agree with DJ on that. I know some very talented programmers
that you would never think they were a tech-geek just based on their social
life.

------
joshu
I wonder if "good negotiator" and "good engineer" is correlated or anti-
correlated?

I want good engineers, so I don't want to punish people for being bad
negotiators. We just pay the best we can.

~~~
marshray
More than once I've heard the sentiment from (independent) managers that
people focused on salary and raises tend to be less than great as
developer/engineers.

Probably to some degree they were feeding me a line of BS (subtly suggesting
that I not negotiate aggressively), but sometimes knowing the personnel in the
departments there was probably some truth to it too.

------
dreamux
I once had an internship in University where I was solely responsible for a
$250k contract (which took 3 months to complete). Furthermore, that contract
was a gating feature to a larger ($4M) contract for the company. The only way
to appreciate the value you bring to the company is to involve yourself with
the business operations, talk to your PM and sales/marketing people (this has
the bonus of helping you understand what they do, a perspective sadly absent
on most devs). Keep track of everything.

------
sethg
I have found the salary.com Web site to be a helpful tool in setting
expectations: if you actually cough up money for their report, you can fill in
your location, job category, years of experience, company size, etc., and get
back a report showing the range of salaries people like you are earning.

The one thing I am uncertain about is how I would place myself on that range:
should I be asking for a 75th-percentile salary and settle for 50th, or ask
for 90th and settle for 75th?

------
pdx
I'm having my review today and I am not making enough to live on. Every month,
after mortgage on the house, modest car payment, and insurance for wife and
two kids, I dip into savings to pay the bills.

It's already too late to "plant the seeds" for a big raise, so I'm
anticipating some little 1% raise today at my review.

I had my chance a few weeks ago, when I stayed late to confirm and fix a bug
that would have cost us a $2M contract, and everybody knows what I did and how
important it was. Still, without me actually pushing for a big raise, I know
it won't happen. It's a small company and money is not wasted. To pay me a big
raise I didn't ask for would be throwing money away.

So why didn't I ask? I think because I don't want the commitment a big raise
would impose on me to stay indefinitely, and I don't want to be comfortable. I
like feeling the pinch of money, as it keeps me motivated to work on my
startup ideas. If I allowed myself to get too comfortable, I fear it might not
be the best for me, long term.

~~~
wballard
Hmm, so a raise in no way implies a commitment to stay. Raise your sights --
going from 'broke' to 'getting by' may be motivating, but not quite as
lucrative as going from 'getting by' to 'killing it'.

I'll tell you, flat out -- no matter how much you make, you'll feel the pinch,
you'll just learn to move the 0.

~~~
pdx
A large raise involves my manager walking up to the owner of the company and
laying out a case for why the owner of the company should have less money in
his pocket every month, because I'm so important to the company. If I then
quit while that conversation is still fresh in mind, say, within a couple of
years, my manager will lose credibility with the owner. This seems to
articulate best the reasons, but to be honest, it's less logical and more from
the gut. In my gut, it just seems like I'm "honor bound" to commit for a long
time after receiving a large raise.

~~~
kenjackson
Remember that the owner only pays you for the time you're at the job. So if
you work six more months and leave, he only paid you for six months of work at
the new salary. And you did six months of work. It's not like you're asking
for a five year bonus, and then leave in six months.

Don't feel ashamed to ask the owner for a raise if you feel like you deserve
one. Change your perspective. They should be ashamed that they haven't been
trying to do their best by you. And if it does come down to hurting
feelings... who do you care more about, the owner or your wife and kids?

------
nathanlrivera
Have you ever had a situation where you had to negotiate multiple offers? How
did you negotiate to get the highest possible offer from each?

------
semerda
I always say, "if you don't ask then you never get."

What's the worst that can happen if you ask - boss says no, you feel stupid
for a while or a loss of a job. The later means you are working for the wrong
man so it may be easier to find out now rather then later.

Regret is harder to cope with. So don't regret and speak your mind!

I also came across this good article which basically stated that our behavior
at work has to do with the environment we grow up in.
[http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2011/01/30/yes-rich-
kids...](http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2011/01/30/yes-rich-kids-already-
won-the-career-game-heres-why/)

"Middle-class kids generally fuck up their first few years of the career game
in one of two ways... fear authority tremendously... or show an open distaste
for managerial authority." ... "The rich kid, on the other hand, relates even
to the highest-ranking executives as equals, because he knows that they are
his social equals. He’ll answer to them, but with an understanding that his
subordination is limited and offered in exchange for mentoring and protection.
He views them as partners and colleagues, not judges or potential
adversaries."

Food for thought.

------
mncolinlee
My dad spent over forty slaving away for one employer through about half a
dozen office moves and two mergers. After the most recent merger, they
outsourced his entire IT staff and asked him as IT manager to take the role of
scapegoat for their lousy decision and accept a pay cut as well. He turned
them down. This was the first time I ever saw my father stand up for himself.

We all have to start understanding that the only way to be sure you're working
for an employer who values your work is to work for someone who is willing to
hear your constructive criticism and wage requests without googling
"outsourcing" or "recruiters". It's possible your employer turns you down and
gets rid of you. In the worst case, they keep you and move you downstairs into
Storage B.

------
URSpider94
One thing that I believe in myself, and that I coach my team on, is that there
are three currencies that you can accept as payment: money (including stock,
bonuses, etc); title; and training.

To me, it may be worth staying (temporarily) at a job where you feel that you
are underpaid in money, if you are getting lots of opportunities to learn new
skills, or you are managing a larger team or scope of work than you would have
at another company. Think of it as similar to the time spent in an MBA or
other post-graduate training program.

The hard part is to discern when you are being given a growth opportunity, and
when you are just being used.

------
dmvaldman
There are currently 3 blog posts from this guy on Hacker News' front page. Is
something fishy going on?

Don't mean to be a cynic, this article is okay and all, but who is this guy
(and what's his secret!)?

~~~
gyardley
Jacques is 'jacquesm' here, is a well-regarded commenter, and up until quite
recently was extremely active. I imagine that's led a lot of people to both
subscribe to his blog and recognize it when they see his posts.

The secret: if you build your reputation, you can benefit from your
reputation.

------
chanux
Now I'm convinced that Jaques left HN for good.

~~~
jacques_chester
It's Jacques. Note the 'c'.

Signed,

a different Jacques.

------
known
Ask for a win-win proposition.

