
Ask HN: What's the best way to buy a claimed domain name? - gautamnarula
I&#x27;ve found a domain name I like that somebody else owns. There is no website (just a completely blank page), and the WHOIS contact information is protected by a proxy company.<p>Domain registars (GoDaddy, NameCheap, etc.) offer domain agency services where, for a price between $20-$60, they&#x27;ll attempt to contact the domain owner and present a bid for the domain.<p>What&#x27;s the best way to bid on the domain? Contact the proxy company and try to go through them? Or are the registrar affiliated domain agents worth the money?
======
bjourne
The best way is don't because the domain owner is likely to demand a retarded
price now that s/he knows someone is interested in it. They are hoping for an
outrageous bid from a large corporation or government institution. IME, they
are just not worth the trouble from a bidders perspective.

Many squatters register domains when registrars offer have specials like "50
domains for $10!" Those domains never gets renewed by the squatter and instead
they are just hoping for one profitable sale. So it's entirely possible that
the domain you're interested in will expire naturally and then you can pick it
up.

Also, don't visit the squatters domain in a browser. The blank page is there
to measure how many hits the domain gets to estimate popularity and therefore
also value.

~~~
geekam
Actually, some owners are OK if you tell them the domain is of personal
importance. I lost my domain name a few years ago and after a year or so tried
to email the guy. He was kind enough to give it back to me for mere $90. I
guess it depends if the domain is not as hot for them they might consider
doing a favor.

~~~
organsnyder
You got lucky. With most domain owners, your personal connection will just
cause them to up their asking price.

~~~
geekam
So, the solution is to just not even ask? Honestly, if you are going to lose
the domain anyway, what's the harm in asking once?

------
javery
I routinely buy domains I don't use - not to be a squatter but my imagination
gets away from me. I imagine most HNers have dozens of domains they don't use.
Someone emailed me recently for a pretty good one and offered $500, I
countered at 3k and we settled at $1,500.

Most people will be sensible about it.

~~~
ianlevesque
Yes, $1500 for something you paid almost nothing for, and were doing nothing
with, is sensible.

I get that this is the world we live in, but it's madness.

~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
A few years ago I purchased a really nice old music box in great condition at
a garage sale for about $4. I didn't know anything about them, it just looked
nice. Some time later, I noticed a maker's name on the bottom and I googled
it. Similar boxes were selling on eBay in worse condition than mine for around
$1,000.

I will not part with the music box for less than $500. If someone actually
offered, I'd probably hold out for more than that.

Is this madness?

------
debacle
Picture this. Twenty years ago, you had the opportunity to lease premium real
estate - a massive storefront, open to billions of people - for only $10 a
year.

The catch? There's already an equally massive sign above the storefront -
Accelerated Pneumatic Deliveries.

You can't move the sign, cover over it, paint it, etc. But the lease was so
low you couldn't help but purchase it, and now, as long as you pay your $10,
each year you can own this storefront.

A few decades later, Bill Pneumatic, the owner and son of the founder of
Accelerated Pneumatic Deliveries, comes along. He wants to purchase your
storefront.

Here in lies the rub. You've put roughly $200 into your storefront at this
point. Clearly $1000 - a 400% ROI - would be a fair price. But you know:

1\. The value of the storefront to APD is nearly priceless. Your storefront is
unique, but it will only ever have one interested buyer.

2\. The downside potential should you decline is nearly nothing. Three less
coffees a year, or skimping a bit one night out a year for the rest of your
life, and you can keep that storefront until you're buried in front of it.

Welcome to the world of domain ownership, where the owner has no rational
basis to sell to you a domain for anything but a ludicrous price. I know of a
handful of established companies that have changed their name over domain
availability. I know about a dozen more that have paid thousands for a domain.
If those purchasers make up only 15-20% of all businesses, the domain owners
are making comfortable, easy money.

\-----

Do not go through GoDaddy or Namecheap. Their services are a flat fee plus
commission - why would you want to pay someone commission to buy something for
you that you already know is going to be unreasonably priced? Especially a
company who specialized in commoditizing their services.

I would recommend contacting the proxy and trying to make contact with the
owner. It will take longer, but you have a much higher chance of success.

But you should probably just find a different domain.

~~~
ojm
> Do not go through GoDaddy or Namecheap.

A few years ago I was desperate to get the .com of a .com.au domain I had. The
guy had his contact details in the Whois information, so I contacted him
asking to buy it. I got no response. I relied a month or so after with a price
to try and get his attention, no reply.

A few months after this I decided to try the GoDaddy service to buy domains
that are already owned (the domain I wanted was registered with GoDaddy). The
initial fee was about $60. They made contact and got him to sell - for a price
lower than I had offered via email: great!

Maybe my experience was different to most, but I got the domain for less than
I was willing to pay.

------
thistleco
This is a great post, particularly the top comment
[http://avc.com/2011/04/finding-and-buying-a-domain-
name/](http://avc.com/2011/04/finding-and-buying-a-domain-name/)

Art Of Negotiating A Domain Name Purchase

This is the step that 99% of people SCREW UP.

I see so much bad advice about how to approach someone to buy their domain...
"contact them and say I see you're not using xxxxx.com, I have a little
project I'd like to use it for... would you be willing to let it go?" etc.
etc. etc. HORRIBLE ADVICE.

People that are sitting on domain names don't keep paying the registration
fees every year for fun, even if they aren't using the name. They know it has
value. So don't insult their intelligence making them think they should do you
a favor by letting you have their unused domain.

Many Domain Owners Think They're Sitting On A Lottery Ticket

Many domain owners think that one day someone is going to come along and give
them millions for their .Com no matter what it is. The fact is, domains are
only worth what someone is ready to had you a check for. (A tip to all you
wannabe speculators.) I've seen many GREAT domains never get sold, so always
keep that in mind. Anyway, because domain owners have this thinking, they are
very reluctant to NAME A PRICE. So forcing them to start by naming a price
isn't something they want to do, because they're hoping YOU offer some
ridiculously high price that they will then counter to go much higher.

Because of this, you MUST start out on first contact with an offer (more on
this in a second). The approach of "would you be willing to sell xxxxx.com? If
so, how much?" isn't going to cut it; one of the main reasons is that domain
owners of decent domains get TONS of emails all the time asking them that, and
when they've replied in the past with a price or try to start negotiations so
many people are only willing to pay $100 or some insulting price.

So what do most domain owners do? IGNORE YOU. That's right. So if you've ever
contacted a domain owner after looking them up with a Whois search and they
didn't reply, it's not because they didn't your email (which makes you think
that follow-up fax or phone call will do the trick; HINT: it won't.) It's
because they think you're like everyone else that thinks they can buy the
domain for $100 or so.

Here's how you get their attention and get the ball rolling...

Rule #1: You must start out by making an offer in your initial email.

Rule #2: This offer must be high enough to get their attention and make them
at least THINK.

NOTE: Rule #2's amount will depend on how great the domain is.

The two magic price points I have found that work the best (they depend on how
valuable the domain is) is either $1,000 or $2,500.

If it's a great domain then $5K-$10K is usually the starting point. These
amounts are enough to get anyone's attention. I've bought many $100K+ value
domains for $15K-$20K by starting with a $5K or $7K offer.

By starting with at least something that gets their attention they will take
you seriously. This is the first step or you have no chance to make a deal.

In most cases for decent 2 words domains, the $1K to $2.5K opener works best.

* TIP: Always know your seller if possible. Do a Whois on who owns the domain, visit the domain in their email address or do some Google searches, etc. You'll often find a struggling Web designer is sitting on a great domain. $1,000 cash to that person is a lot of money. So this also goes into the process of deciding what to open the offer with.

The key here is not to insult someone with a lowball offer, but offer enough
to make them know you're a serious buyer.

So here's a sample initial contact email to send... (and I'll explain the rest
of the language I use)...

Subject Line: Whatever.com ($2,500?)

Hi,

I see you are the owner of Whatever.com. I'm in the process of trying to find
a domain name for a client I am building a web site for and think your name
could be a good fit. I am contacting different domain owners as we have it in
the budget to buy a cool name and Whatever.com is on the list we came up with.

Would you be interested in selling it for $2,500?

Let me know and I can have the funds wired to you next day or PayPal'd to you.
Just let me know your PayPal address.

Thanks for your time.

-YOUR NAME \-------------------------

Let's breakdown why I used that language...

1\. You've positioned yourself as not the future 'owner' of the domain. You're
just managing a budget for a project. This helps because as they will usually
counter with a higher amount, you'll play the "sorry, I just don't have it in
the budget to go that high" to work towards a price you want. You'll also be
able to play the "let me see if the client can approve a budget increase to
accommodate that price" etc. etc. This also allows you to play Good Cop, Bad
Cop in a way. You're just someone trying to get the deal done to do your job
(build the site). You're also presenting yourself as someone LESS EMOTIONALLY
INVESTED IN THE NAME -- which will potentially keep the price down. (Trust me,
it works very well.)

2\. You mention that you're contacting several domain owners (i.e. making
multiple offers). You're playing up SCARCITY, one of the most powerful
emotions when it comes to sales. For all this person knows they could reply
and say "okay, I'll sell it" but you may come back and say, "sorry someone
replied to our email first and now we have a domain."

3\. By closing with the "we'll pay you right away" it makes the offer more
REAL. Many of these domain owners get offers that people back out of and have
no intention to actually pay. And you're also ASSUMING THE SALE by saying,
"what's your PayPal address?" :-)

Again, all of these things are very, very powerful and I have tweaked this
initial contact email over the years.

ADDITIONAL TIPS

Let's say you initially offer $2,500 on a great name and the owner counters
with, "I couldn't sell it for that, I've had higher offers. I would never sell
it for anything less than $10K."

FIrst, you must IGNORE anything they say. You'll get the "I've turned down
higher offers" response a lot. In the example response about $10K above,
unless you would love to have it for $10K, just reply with something like
this... "While I do think your name is possibly worth $10K to someone, we just
don't have the budget for that much, sorry. I could probably get something
more like $5K-$7K approved, but even that's pushing it. Anyway, thanks for
your time."

That's it. Cut them off. Trust me, they'll come back to you 90% of the time.
Sometimes you just have to be a little PATIENT and you'll save a fortune.
Remember to always play up the SCARCITY. "That's just too much for our
budget... looks like we'll just go with an alternative name that we've been
negotiating for a lot less, even though we preferred your name. Thanks for
your time and at least trying to work something out." That's NOT what they
want to read from you. ;-)

There are THOUSANDS of amazing domain deals out there waiting to happen. I,
personally, buy domains all the time this way. In fact, this is probably a
good time to negotiate some deals as many people need the cash more than in
recent years.

FINAL TIP: It's not uncommon to settle on a final price that is 30% of what
their original asking price was. Keep that in mind as a general rule of thumb.
I've had many deals for great names where someone "really wanted $60,000" and
we closed the sale around $20K.

Hope this long novel will help some people. Best of luck to everyone.

~~~
gautamnarula
This is fantastic advice, thanks. Unfortunately, I can't really afford a
"bargain" deal of even a few thousand dollars. Still, I'll keep this in mind.

Also, a lesson for everyone out there: I was about to buy the .co of the
domain name but hesitated for a day to ask this question, and it was purchased
by somebody else today! Don't hesitate if there's a domain you want.

~~~
outericky
I have a habit of buying domains on a whim. Figure <$12 is peace of mind for
12 months if you are going to use it.

That said... you don't want a .co .... you want a .com - unless you are
selling to developers, you can get away with something else, but for the
general public always .com

~~~
tmmm
vine would like to disagree

~~~
icbat
If I'm typing a URL out, I'll generally remember the name of the product but
not the actual .xxx, so I'll assume .com. But I imagine Vine doesn't really
drive much of its interaction through people typing out the URL.

Vine is used primarily from within apps. If anything, having a .co is a slight
helper as their primary target is Twitter where characters are often a
premium.

I don't mean this as opposition to you, tmmm, merely that you got me thinking
on why one might prefer a .co or be fine without a .com.

------
slowernet
Good tactical advice here: [http://avc.com/2011/04/finding-and-buying-a-
domain-name/#com...](http://avc.com/2011/04/finding-and-buying-a-domain-
name/#comment-193649096)

TLDR: Lead with a real offer at a price that the owner cannot dismiss out of
hand, gently imply that your offer has an expiration date, don't act attached
to the name, negotiate from there.

------
rbcgerard
my brother recently emailed a guy about a random domain name (nothing
exciting, four random letters - figured he could buy it for $500-$100 which
seemed fair) the guy countered with 1.5m EUROS! and the email of
contact@###.com in perpetuity!

Why you ask? wikipedia's list of most expensive domain
names...[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_domain_n...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_domain_names)

you have to give credit to the guy for asking!

------
MalcolmDiggs
Well, remember that the proxy is really just a relay. If you email the proxied
email address the registrant will likely get your email in their inbox. They
might ignore it, but it's worth a shot as a first step. That proxy also might
just be a honeypot for spammers, but it's usually worth the risk.

Also, check sedo.com, flippa, and other domain marketplaces to make sure that
domain isn't listed for sale already.

------
vblord
Another thought is that you can check [http://who.is](http://who.is). When you
search there for the whois information, they have a history tab. Maybe the
person that has the domain now has not always had the privacy protection on
it. You might be able to get the phone number or original email address from
that.

------
josefresco
Also checkout backorder services in case the domain is forgotten and comes up
for expiration.

This is a good list: [http://www.domainsherpa.com/domain-name-backorder-
services](http://www.domainsherpa.com/domain-name-backorder-services)

Note: I'm in no way affiliated with the linked site or any of the services
listed.

------
ebcase
Here's an HN thread and blog post about this topic, from a few years ago:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3613095](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3613095)

[http://blog.domai.nr/post/17910329952/buy-a-domain-that-
some...](http://blog.domai.nr/post/17910329952/buy-a-domain-that-someone-else-
owns)

(full disclosure: I help run Domainr)

You could also get a brokerage like
[https://domainagents.com/](https://domainagents.com/) to help you with the
process.

------
grizzles
I've been on both the buy and sell side of this negotiation quite a few times.
thistleco's advice is pretty good. I'll just add one thing about the new GTLD
program. Unlike the past, nowadays you are competing against the registrars
themselves and the automated and MANUAL analytics they run on availability
searches, whois queries and etc. As the OP said in a comment here, if you find
a brand you like, don't hesitate because that name might be repriced by the
GTLD operator due to your searches and activity around the domain.

------
thatoneguy
FWIW, a "ludicrous" offer might not be that much, depending. I had a guy buy a
domain from me a couple months ago for $5k.

If you go through a broker like DomainAgents (who contacted me and helped
negotiate the sale via escrow.com) the process is quite painless - I got my
money within a week and the buyer had his site up soon after.

FWIW, I likely could've pushed for more money because his business only had
ccTLDs and not the .com that he wanted from me, but $5k for a domain that was
expiring was totally a fair price.

------
gaze
I bought domain names as an investment and sat on them for years until people
with lots of money wanted them bad enough. I think this is the mindset you'll
be up against.

------
swampthing
Ritch at Acquirable is probably the best you can hire for this kind of stuff -
[http://acquirable.com/](http://acquirable.com/)

Probably only makes sense for domains at least 5 figures USD though.

------
hackerboos
Go to the auctions and look for a name:

[http://snapnames.com](http://snapnames.com)

[http://namejet.com](http://namejet.com)

I've gotten names that I had previously made offers on there.

------
Aldo_MX
Usually contacting the proxy company is a bad idea, since you will be dealing
with robots and not real humans.

Also, use a disposable email address, since it's very likely your email will
get sold to spam lists.

------
ep103
godaddy offers a service where they try and contact the person behind the
proxy on your behalf, and charge upon success. I tried them once to no
success, the person who told me about it said it worked for them.

