
iMessage purgatory - mortenjorck
http://adampash.com/imessage-purgatory/
======
jc4p
I went through this last month when I switched to the Nexus 5, had no clue I
wasn't getting messages until someone with an iPhone tweeted at me asking why
I as ignoring them.

However, all it took from me was a call to Apple's customer service, I told
them I had just switched off my iPhone and no longer got texts from people
with iMessage and they immediately sent me to a tech that fixed the problem
for me.

Have you been explaining it correctly when you call? All I said was "I had an
iPhone until last week, switched to another phone but I'm still registered for
iMessage"

Edit: According to my phone I called 1-800-692-7753 (Which is just 1-800-MY-
APPLE) and my call took 8 mins 25 seconds total. Not too bad of an experience.

~~~
Reich
This is the proper response. I feel like the linked post is just a reason to
bash Apple. As someone who used to work in their tech support (and has no real
feeling about the company good or bad), EVERY time someone calls with this
issue, it is fixed with the click of a button that deauthorizes their iMessage
token.

I know a lot of people are saying that this shouldn't even have to be a step
when you switch phones, but the fact is that you chose to use iMessage for the
features. It could have been turned off at any time, they are not forcing you
to use it.

It would be great if there was a way to fix this without having to call (or
unregister your phone number from your apple id), because of not being able to
know that it's happening. But it's not like Apple is deliberately trying to
keep your messages hostage. Besides, you've already switched phones.

~~~
jc4p
I wouldn't be so quick to say it's just an excuse to bash Apple. According to
the writer's tweets Apple doesn't even see his phone number registered in the
iMessage registry, so there could be something even worse going on here.

Source:
[https://twitter.com/adampash/status/466316191230087168](https://twitter.com/adampash/status/466316191230087168)

~~~
Reich
Ah, thank you for the link. I guess I was the one that was quick to judge.

It also just sounds like there was a bad experience with a particular tech
support rep, who may be new. In my experience, these issues are ALWAYS
exceptions to the $20 fee. If the 'standard' workarounds don't fix it, they
will escalate you to a supervisor and put in a ticket with engineering who
will resolve the issue within 48 hours __ _.

Maybe OP will see this and give their tech support another shot. If not, the
token expires in about 28 days.

_*This information is less than a year old, but rules may have changed.

------
benstein
I went through this a few months ago and discussed on HN:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7166955](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7166955)

Here's my update: It's been about 4 months or so since I switched.

Nothing I was able to do or Apple was able to do fixed the problem. I was able
to put Messages into debug mode and I sent Apple a full debug log (Apple bug
report #15966535). They marked the ticket as "Duplicate" and I was no longer
able to view any updates.

After about 3 months, most of the issue has resolved.

The majority of group-texts work now; iPhones now send the whole thread is MMS
not iMessage. It's still not 100% but pretty good.

Most of my friends can send SMS without failures, but quite a few still get
"iMessage failed" and have to "resend as SMS".

I've completely given up trying to fix the problem. Just hoping the remaining
iOS devices resolve themselves at some point, or Apple fixes in next update.

<rant>Everyone thinks this is an _Android_ problem that they can't message me
anymore. Really tough to explain to the world that it's _their_ phone that's
buggy.</rant>

------
saurik
What is interesting to me always is that my experience trying to send
iMessages to people is usually the opposite: if someone's phone runs out of
batteries or they start a phone call (on CDMA, which can't do voice and data
simultaneously) I nearly instantly am forced to send them text messages. I
also have found the "Delivered" notices very reliable: AFAIK they require a
device to actually receive the message. Note however that it is "a device": if
you have iMessage associated with another random device, it might be receiving
your messages for you; I would be very interested in knowing if these people
cataloged all devices they have from Apple (including Macs) and logged out of
all of them. (It could, of course, just be a bug; but it at least doesn't seem
to be some fundamental aspect of the design that it permanently hijacks
messages.)

~~~
oalders
My sister has an iPhone, but no data plan. So, if she's out and I want to text
her from my iPhone, she needs to make sure she doesn't have iMessages running
on her computer at home. If it's on, I text her a bunch of times and I just
get the blue bubbles. Then I get a bunch of SMS messages from her saying
"where are you? why aren't you texting me back" and hilarity ensues. I guess I
could just call her.

~~~
__david__
She could disassociate the phone number from her computer's iMessage account
(Preferences -> Accounts). Then messages to her number would always go to her
phone, and messages to the email account would go to the computer.

~~~
oalders
Thanks -- that's a good idea. I'll have to point that out to her.

~~~
lstamour
The point is, why should you have to point that out? iOS 8 had better make it
obvious -- "oh, I don't have data on my phone, so make sure it gets sent as an
SMS too!"

------
fossuser
Even more frustrating, reading this just reminds me how much better the google
voice solution to this problem is and it predated iMessage by several years.
Google has just let it atrophy - then they introduced hangouts late (relative
to other chat apps in the market) and still have not integrated the google
voice features or pushed them with android.

Does anyone who works at/worked at Google know why this happened?

Were they trying to turn the telecoms into dumb pipes with the original Nexus
and gizmo5 purchase, but when that failed just abandoned the idea? You'd think
the success of whatsapp and facebook chat would make chat a priority. If
people communicate using your platform they're more likely to use your account
for other things.

~~~
ccozan
To be honest, Hangouts of Google does a pretty nice job of SMS integration and
multidevice communication.

First: if a person has SMS and also a google account, they are just put
toghether under the same hood, but they don't get mixed, just get sorted. An
SMS goes associated with the number so I would not receive a SMS as a talk
message or what ever. Second: if I am getting a message ( over Gtalk or
Hangouts ) all my devices ( including Chrome) are receiving it in the same
(relative) time. No stealing around, all my conversations are sync'd
everywhere.

~~~
voltagex_
Not quite. I have a Nexus 4 and a Nexus 5. If I turn my 4 on, I'll get
notifications (and sound/vibration) only on the 4, until I start using the 5
again. Strangely this doesn't seem to hold true if I use Hangouts on my
computer (messages alert all devices)

------
gdeglin
Mashable wrote about this problem months ago:
[http://mashable.com/2013/09/16/imessage-
problem/](http://mashable.com/2013/09/16/imessage-problem/)

A lot of my friends have complained about this problem as well.

I'm surprised Apple hasn't moved faster to come up with a solution. Seems like
a lawsuit waiting to happen.

~~~
MBCook
They're not Apple customers anymore. It's not a problem (in that it's not
effecting their customers, it __IS __their fault).

The best way to get this fixed would probably be for iPhone users who lose the
ability to message their friend to complain to Apple, not the former customer.

Sad though. Apple is so good at customer service in many contexts. But
sometimes they seem to decide on one of these seemingly purposeful blindspots
and treat people terribly.

~~~
unfunco
The people with iPhones are still Apple's customers, and it's their messages
that are disappearing. That's a perfectly good case for a CAL.

Suppose that someone tried texting someone for medical assistance (silly, I
know...), and that message was not delivered because the recipient changed
their phone but kept their number, is that the fault of the person that
changed their phone or is it the fault of Apple for not being able to realise
that people might someday want to change devices?

~~~
superuser2
>not being able to realise that people might someday want to change devices?

They did realize it. There are two mechanisms for handling this issue -
turning off iMessage in Settings before deactivating your iPhone, and calling
Apple after deactivating your iPhone. Both are documented.

There is no way for your iPhone to know it's been deactivated and still
communicate with Apple. If anything it's the fault of the carriers for not
providing Apple with an API hook for "this iPhone was just deactivated."

Also SMS is many times more lossy than iMessage. I've had messages show up to
my friends on AT&T several _days_ after they were sent, and not all. SMS
messages longer than the length limit almost always arrive out of order, and
sometimes parts don't arrive at all. Relying on non-iMessage texting for
medical assistance is stupid to begin with.

~~~
sdm
The problem is that there are so many edge cases with this. iMessage is a
group messaging platform. Replacing SMS is just a small part of what it
covers. You might be switching away from you iPhone but you still want to be
able to use it on your iPad or Mac. It would be much better if Apple
introduced a separate SMS application or created / supported iMessage on other
platforms.

------
mwsherman
IM and SMS are different ideas. SMS moves a message from one _device_ to
another. SMS also knows nothing about the receiving device or whether the
message got there.

IM (under which I include iMessage) is user-to-user, not device-to-device. It
_can_ know about the recipient and whether messages are received.

Each of these things has advantages.

SMS works because the phone network is always tracking a device. It is very
addressable. The receiving device is mobile, rarely changes, and is singular.

IM has a notion of sessions. The user signs off and on. It can travel over any
IP connection. The device on which the user is addressable changes a lot.
There may be multiple devices, making the definition of “delivered” a bit less
deterministic.

Conflating these two makes for a confusing mental model for the user, and for
failures like this.

------
mrcwinn
For what it's worth, I switched to Android and did not have to pay Apple $20
to disable my iMessages, despite not having an active support contract.

I did, however, have to do a quick Google search, log in to my iTunes account
through the web, and de-register my Apple devices. The problem was solved
relatively quickly and for free.

This should be simpler, but I'm not sure how much easier Apple can make it.
They can't make an iOS app to help you because you got rid of the iPhone. It
seems strange to make an Android app to help you. That leaves the web. Better
luck to you!

~~~
mikestew
> This should be simpler, but I'm not sure how much easier Apple can make it.

You have to keep in mind that your steps don't work for everyone. There is no
definitive set of steps that consistently work. I say this is as someone who
has gone back and forth between iOS and Android a couple of times. What worked
last time doesn't necessarily work the next time.

------
benhansenslc
I switched to an Android phone 3 weeks ago and I am also still not receiving
texts from iPhones. Apple's customer support said the same thing to me as they
did to you. They told me that one customer had to wait 40 days before they
were fully removed from the system. I am just hoping that it gets fixed for me
by the time 40 days has come around.

I filled a complaint with the FCC at
[https://esupport.fcc.gov/ccmsforms/form2000.action?form_type...](https://esupport.fcc.gov/ccmsforms/form2000.action?form_type=2000B).
It is a form for complaints against wireless carriers for number portability
issues.

------
steven2012
Wow, this has been going on for at least a year. I can't believe that Apple
hasn't already fixed this problem, it really calls into question their
commitment to doing the right thing.

~~~
kevando
Yeah it's stupid issue but extremely easy to resolve. My messages went to
purgatory for about 15 minutes. [http://phandroid.com/2014/04/07/turn-off-
imessage-iphone-to-...](http://phandroid.com/2014/04/07/turn-off-imessage-
iphone-to-android/)

~~~
adampash
I've done all of that. The number is no longer associated with my Apple ID,
but other iPhones still send messages to that number via iMessage — which
means they go nowhere.

~~~
kevando
Well shit. Sounds like Apple has an issue clearing cache.

In the hopes of actually solving your issue, I hate to suggest this, but try
reconnecting your number to imessage (and make sure you get any new imessage
texts), then properly turn off imessage from that device. The defacto unplug
it plug it back in.

------
Scorpion
I briefly switched from an iOS phone to an Nexus 5 and had the same issue. For
other reasons, I switched back. A colleague of mine liked the Nexus a lot and
made the switch after I did. He has been fighting this for _months_.
Everything works properly for a while. Sometimes, several weeks will go by.
Then, out of the blue, my phone tries to send the message to him as an
iMessage. It's bizarre and frustrating.

------
hert
Even more of a disaster with iMessage group threads. I had a thread w/ two
friends, and when I switched to my Moto X, I didn't realize that I was no
longer receiving messages on the thread from ONE of them.

Turns out, one of their iPhones recognized that it should start texting me,
while the other's iPhone kept iMessaging me w/out delivering failure reports.
So frustrating that I forced them to get WhatsApp!

------
JimmaDaRustla
Sounds like it would be easier to find new friends.

Seriously though, iMessage should have some sort of interoperability on other
devices, even if its just a web interface you can log into to make
configuration changes, including the deletion/deactivation of an account
associated with a mobile phone number.

Edit: Or even monitoring iPhones associated with a number and disabling
iMessage if said phone is no longer online with that number? Could possibly
even forward unread messages, etc.

~~~
LeoPanthera
It does. Log into your Apple ID at
[https://appleid.apple.com](https://appleid.apple.com) and un-associate your
phone number.

Though this only works if you attached your iPhone to your Apple ID in the
first place. The phone bugs you about it repeatedly but many people do not do
so.

~~~
JimmaDaRustla
Then I fail to see why this is really an issue - blog explains no proper
solution, need to pay $20, engineers can't figure it out, etc... Sounds like
hogwash.

~~~
axanoeychron
Unnecessarily dismissive.

The OP has said [1] that he dissociated his number from iMessage and people
who text him from iPhones are not getting through to him. That is problematic
if you want to receive text messages on a non Apple phone.

It would seem he wrote in his blog in order to get help or bring it to a wider
attention.

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7740438](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7740438)

~~~
JimmaDaRustla
No reference made to this in the article.

The solution is there however, Apple just needs to fix their iMessage software
to properly disassociate the number with iMessage.

Again, like my unnecessarily down voted comment suggested, unlike this blog
suggests, the solution is there, it just doesn't work.

~~~
dragonwriter
If it doesn't work, it's not a solution.

~~~
JimmaDaRustla
When you held your iPhone 4 wrong and the connection dropped, people didn't
claim that there was no antenna.

~~~
dragonwriter
An antenna is defined by physical characteristics, not whether or not it
functions suitably for a given application. A solution is something that
solves a problem -- it is only a solution with respect to that problem, and
only to the extent that it actually solves it. If it doesn't work, it doesn't
solve the problem, and isn't a solution.

------
boqeh
I had this same issue. Apple wouldn't help me, unfortunately. If I recall
correctly, I had to disassociate iMessage from my AppleID completely, which
seems to have worked. Although I still can't be sure.

I have a weird feeling the messages still aren't going through and a lot of my
friends think I'm being an asshole.

~~~
danielweber
This feels exactly like the dark days of Microsoft[1], where they would
support a protocol halfway, and then make it impossible for people to switch
away from their version of the protocol.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish)

------
edgesrazor
I ran into this issue 2 years ago when I dropped iPhone for Android - I
seriously can't believe it's still a problem. Even following Apple's official
KB article, it will still take a few days for all of your messages to start
going through again.

------
izacus
Well it seems that Apple has little incentive to fix this and have been
dragging their feet: They're hoping that a brand new Android user will blame
non-working SMS messages to their phone and return it for another iPhone.

Just another lock-in behaviour from them.

------
pmorici
The easiest way to avoid this problem is to make sure you turn off iMessage on
your iPhone before you switch devices then you don't have this problem in the
first place.

[https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3392014?start=15&tstart...](https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3392014?start=15&tstart=0)

~~~
jbl
When I switched from an iPhone to an Android handset, I found that I not only
had to switch off iMessage, I had to switch it off while my SIM card was still
in the iPhone. Switching iMessage off after the fact didn't seem to work.

~~~
pmorici
Yes, you need to do it before porting your number.

------
ahassan
My friends and I have never ran into this issue switching from iOS to Android.
The main thing to do is to disable iMessage on your old iPhone before you get
rid of it; that should unregister it on Apple's servers. If you do that, then
you should be unregistered unless you have another device hooked up (i.e.
Mac).

------
harmonicon
This happened to me when I got my android phone with a new number. When my
friends with iPhones texted me, the text always shows up as iMessage and I
would never receive it.

The thing is, I have not owned ANY smartphone before this one. My guess was
the previous owner of this number had an iPhone and registered for iMessage
service. iMessage route sms through its own server it never reached my
carrier's network. I tried to get help from Apple store technician, but since
I am not an apple customer, past or present, employee did not see a need to
help.

Problem is I really liked that number. After 2 months of struggle I gave up
and changed to a new number.

I will admit I never liked Apple and do my best to purge iProducts from my
life. But I guess you just cannot avoid being screwed, anyway.

------
greggman
A friend found this

[http://support.vodafone.com.au/articles/FAQ/How-to-
deactivat...](http://support.vodafone.com.au/articles/FAQ/How-to-deactivate-
iMessage-if-you-re-switching-from-iPhone)

TLDR; Deactive iMessages on your iPhone before switching or go here if you
don't have access to your phone.
[http://supportprofile.apple.com/MySupportProfile.do](http://supportprofile.apple.com/MySupportProfile.do)

Sounds like that's not enough from reports below tho

------
ironghost
Easy (yet long) fix:

on iPhone - Disable iMessage from the settings menu. \- Go back to messages
and send a standard text message to the phone number. \- Enable iMessage from
the settings menu.

Done.

------
K0nserv
How can the engineering team be clueless on how to fix this? Now I admit that
I don't know the inner workings of the iMessage protocol and servers, but
presumably all that needs to be done is to disassociate the number with the
Apple ID. If I were to guess this would involve dropping a row in a table
somewhere.

------
prutschman
Google Hangouts on my Android phone keeps bugging me to intergrate SMS into
Hangouts, as well as to "confirm" my mobile number. My fear is that something
analogous to the iMessage "purgatory" might happen, though I haven't heard of
anyone experiencing it.

~~~
deong
As of now, there's nothing to worry about. The problem with iPhones occurs
because (1) Apple's implementation is apparently crappy, and (2) Apple tries
to treat SMS and iMessage as just two identical channels through which a
message can be received. You send a message to a person, not a phone number or
iMessage account, and Apple figures out how to route it. The problem occurs
when they guess wrong.

Google isn't doing #2. The SMS integration with Hangouts is limited to just
showing your SMS and IM messages in one view. When you send a message, you
send it through one channel or the other explicitly. Google doesn't ever guess
how you wanted to send it, so they can't guess wrong.

~~~
prutschman
The part that concerns me with Hangouts is that it wants to know my mobile
number for some reason. They say it's for discovery purposes. For now at
least.

~~~
dublinben
If you're using Google apps on your phone, they already know your mobile
number. I'm not sure what you're concerned about.

~~~
prutschman
Google as an organization has my mobile number from a variety of sources, but
that doesn't mean I want to associate my mobile number with my Hangouts usage
in such a way that other people with my phone number can automatically contact
me via Hangouts.

------
dangoldin
I ran into this too and ended up calling Apple. Their solution was to tell
everyone who had my number to erase their iMessage history with me.

Somewhat odd - I can receive individual texts from two people that have
iPhones but if one of them sends a group text to both of us, I do not receive
it.

------
joshstrange
There was a story posted the HN that was very similar to this semi-recently,
in fact I though it was a repost until I saw this was published today. I can't
seem to find the previous post, does anyone else remember that/have a link?
Thanks!

~~~
WiseWeasel
From 100 days ago, 398 points: iOS holding my phone number hostage = the worst
bug I’ve ever experienced (blog.benjaminste.in)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7166955](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7166955)

~~~
joshstrange
Apparently I need to re-evaluate my usage of the term "semi-recently", thank
you very much for the link! I bow to your superior searching skills. I used
the HN search site [0] if you don't mind me asking what did you use to find or
did you just have it bookmarked?

[0] [http://hn.algolia.com](http://hn.algolia.com)

~~~
WiseWeasel
I posted in that thread, so I was able to find it in my comment history
without too much digging.

------
JohnHaugeland
I've been here for almost a year.

It's not clear why this seems okay. "We've stolen contact for a year. We're
working on it."

Seems like anti-competitive behavior. Stopped buying Apple 100% immediately
once I found out.

------
mwill
I encountered this problem recently on a smaller scale. I disable iMessage for
various reasons, but recently had to factory reset my iPhone, which led to
iMessage being enabled. I completely forgot about it and after I remembered to
disable it, I suddenly could no longer receive text messages from my friends
with iPhones.

I gave Apple a call and initially the only response I could get from them was
"Just turn on iMessage" and general confusion about why I had it turned off in
the first place.

Eventually someone I talked to said they could fix it, and shortly after I
started receiving messages again.

------
cstrat
I have read about these issues plaguing people. It is strange because whenever
I have roamed overseas or have disabled data for whatever reason. People still
can text me, albeit I am sure there is a delay between when they hit send and
when I got the message.

Friends of mine have moved from iPhone to Android, when I send them a message
it tries with iMessage - and I get the message failure exclamation mark. It
then resends as a text and doesn't try iMessage again for some time. Haven't
really had the black hole experience yet...

------
vasundhar
1\. Validation seem to happen when you send the first message to check if
given number is associated with iMessage 2\. Second time onward it only checks
if the sender is in Data Network or not. 3\. There is an option in the
iMessage settings > Messages > "Send as SMS" if this option is not selected
once the device/iAccount knows the other device is iPhone and you are on Data
... it just sends an iMessage.

Turn "Send as SMS" so that it falls back to SMS if the destination is not
available for iMessage.

------
e79
Their support page makes it sound like they can just de-register iMessage with
your account.

[http://support.apple.com/kb/ts5185](http://support.apple.com/kb/ts5185)

A few comments here seem to suggest that this is a carrier or cellular
infrastructure issue. It isn't! iMessage doesn't route over SMS-- that's the
whole point. It routes to Apple's servers, which should be capable of doing a
lookup to see if the number still has an associated iCloud or iMessage
account.

------
jamra
There is (or at least used to be) an option on your iPhone that forces the
messages to be sent and received over SMS rather than iMessage. I wonder if
one could turn on that option on their old phone before switching numbers.

There was a fairly recent change in how iMessages are handled. In one of the
iOS updates, you can receive iMessage messages on numerous devices tied to
your Apple ID such as your iPad. I wonder if that's where the bug comes from.

The other option is to switch to Android at home and get new friends.

~~~
superuser2
I wonder if one could turn on that option on their old phone before switching
numbers.

Yes, one can, and this is the correct and documented way to avoid this
problem. Unfortunately, people don't generally think about it before asking
their carrier to swap out phones on their line, and your iPhone has no way of
knowing you intend to deactivate it.

------
cek994
I had a very similar problem when I drowned my iPhone and switched my SIM to
an old Windows Phone 7 I had lying around. If you have your old phone, you can
disable iMessage while the SIM is still in it, which apparently works -- but
if you don't, you're basically up a creek. I ended up changing the email
address on my iCloud account.

It baffles me that online iCloud doesn't have a dashboard for controlling
this. Doesn't seem it should be that hard to unlink phone numbers from
iMessage.

------
rnovak
I had the same issue, but I was able to still retrieve the messages via
another apple device that was still connected to the iMessage service. I was
then able to disassociate my number with the service.

When I had my iPhone, I had originally linked both my email and my phone
number to the same iMessage account, so fortunately I never lost messages.

If it was tied to your email as well, you might be able to disable the service
via another apple device.

------
lurien
It's even worse if you want to keep an iDevice registered for
facetime/iMessage use. You can't toggle it on and off on demand.

------
kevinherron
Unfortunately I'm in the same boat right now. Tried calling them and having
the number removed, etc...

Been going on like this for over a month.

------
softinio
I've been having the same issue and it ruined part of my vacation as people I
was meeting up with on vacation thought I was ignoring their texts and we
never met up.

What adds insult to injury is that all ios devices are shipped by default with
the setting set to not send by sms when user not found on iMessage.

Apple should own up to this problem publicly and compensate users.

------
jms703
The only reliable fix I've seen for this is to have your friends remove and
re-add your mobile number from their contacts.

------
enscr
Whenever I look at the iMessage icon on my iPhone/iPad, I feel it had so much
potential when it came out but Apple just squandered it like a brat. If only
they had opened the gates on interoperability ..sigh !

Sometime back they were arrogant and brilliant, not just the former.

------
NeliX4
What's wrong with iMessage on Android app?
[http://imessageonandroid.com/](http://imessageonandroid.com/)

Why this exact same issue is poppup up in HN every now and then...

~~~
NeliX4
Sorry my fault. It's a scam.

------
X-Istence
Had a friend recently go through this. She called up Apple, had her number
deregistered and about a day or two later everything started flowing correctly
again...

------
vhost-
Same story here. Switched to an android decide and no one could text me for
months. Months! It's almost unbelievable.

------
justizin
frustrating, indeed. the short answer is, if you are in the know, and you
switch from iphone to android, disable iMessage on your iPhone first.

It would be great to see an interoperable solution replace iMessage, but for
now, it is (purportedly) secure and often more reliable than text messaging. I
still pay for an unlimited sms plan.

~~~
headShrinker
> I still pay for an unlimited ams plan

I just couldn't bring myself to be extorted 25 or 50 cents per text. Why is
there no government investigation in to this? No class action?

I thank Apple for at least allowing me to text the majority of my friends for
free.

------
JacksonGariety
Why aren't they making sure there's an active iPhone number associated before
delivering any iMessages?

Obvious solution.

------
george_ciobanu
I have similar issues with an iPhone and iPad synced to the same account.
Stuff is always out of sync.

------
sturmeh
Is it conceivable that Apple are deliberately ignoring this issue as it does
exactly what they would want?

It punishes people who move away from their platform with social isolation.

It's easy for them to overlook this issue and not put any effort into fixing
it, because the investment would result in a better experience for everyone
who switching away from Apple.

~~~
Bud
No. This is not conceivable. In fact, Apple has never taken a single
documented action which would be at all similar to this.

If one thinks about it for just a moment, one can see the hilarity of even
suspecting this. Apple has very consistently provided the best overall
experience and service in the industry over the last 15 years. They have done
this regardless of whether you are using one of their products (PC users who
use iTunes) or their entire ecosystem of products.

It strains credulity to think that Apple would attempt to punish a customer
who is moving away from a given iPhone (perhaps even to a new iPhone!). That
customer could very well still use several other Apple products for years or
even decades in the future. You expect us to believe that Apple would
antagonize that customer in a grade-school fashion, out of spite?

It's just nonsense to even think this.

------
_Simon
This again? FFS RTFM...

~~~
rspeer
Hey look, the new comment-approval policy _totally_ fixed trashy low-effort
comments on HN.

~~~
dang
Please don't reply to trashy low-effort comments on HN with trashy low-effort
comments on HN.

------
headShrinker
> save the green vs. blue bubbles, which are in their own way a sort of weird
> social/status indicator

Save your opinionated anti Apple rhetoric. The color coded indicator allows
people to know which features are included in the service, or whether your
text was delivered and read or in your case, not delivered...

~~~
kennywinker
While color coding totally serves a useful purpose, it's also DEFINITELY used
by some as a indicator of status or inclusion in a group. People are super
tribal, and will use any indicators available to indicate inclusion or
exclusion.

~~~
dfc
_Think different..._

~~~
NathanCH
Oh cmon, how is this any different from Google Hangouts? Messages sent from
Google Hangout's are green, and default SMS is grey.

~~~
dragonwriter
iMessage uses shading based on transport (SMS/MMS vs. iMessage) for both your
messages and others, but from looking at my own mixed SMS/MMS/Hangouts
threads, Google uses green for your outbound messages sent with Hangouts, and
grey for your outbound SMS/MMS messages and all incoming messages (with "via
SMS" and "via MMS" alongside the time display on in- and out-bound SMS/MMS
messages.)

So, to the extent that the Apple behavior can be seen as signalling in-group
membership with color of messages, it is distinctly different from Google
Hangouts, since the only person whose messages are colored to indicate
delivery method in Hangouts are _yours_ , not the ones you receive from
others.

------
shurcooL
I find it interesting how so many people still find it acceptable in 2014 to
be using a "phone number" as their id.

It's a number you can't even pick yourself: you _pay_ to get a randomly
assigned digits, at best with the ability to reroll (also not always free).

To me, it feels like someone using an `@aol.com` email in 2014. Or a rotary
phone.

~~~
btgeekboy
The phone number is a backwards compatibility feature. We have modern ways of
locating a user (see SIP, Email), but those won't be compatible with POTS.

The use case here, Apple's iMessage, in fact allows users to use alternate
methods of user lookup, including multiple email addresses.

If you don't find it acceptable, what do you propose as an alternative?

~~~
shurcooL
> If you don't find it acceptable, what do you propose as an alternative?

So far, the best alternative for id that I've found is...

Email address.

It's highly available, free to create, and you can pick your own
letters/numbers that are meaningful. It can even be your name. Definitely
better than phone number digits at being an id that I can share with my
friends or those who I want to be able to contact me.

(For voice calls, I primarily use FaceTime Audio because they support email as
id. But I also have skype, voip number for backwards compatibility, etc.)

~~~
dragonwriter
Phone numbers are portable between providers, email addresses are not. So
email addresses make _worse_ identifiers (where consistency rather than
encoded meaning is the important thing) than phone numbers.

(Also, the "pay to get a randomly assigned number" isn't always true: my
Google Voice number was free, and I got to ask for particular digits string to
be included and got to choose from a list of numbers that met that
requirement.)

------
uptown
This site has a solution:

1\. Reset your Apple ID password and do not log back in on your device(s)

2\. Send a text to 48369 with the word STOP

It won’t happen immediately but over a 12-hour period, you should start
receiving texts on your Android device that are sent from iPhone users.

[http://www.techrepublic.com/article/how-to-keep-receiving-
sm...](http://www.techrepublic.com/article/how-to-keep-receiving-sms-from-
iphone-users-after-making-the-switch-to-android/)

~~~
bradfa
Official Apple knowledge base info:
[http://support.apple.com/kb/TS5185](http://support.apple.com/kb/TS5185)

~~~
Scorpion
I think it's important to note that the Apple KB explicitly states that the
steps outlined in the parent comment and article do not work.

------
VLM
Is the destruction of SMS as a technology necessarily bad? I don't think so.
Like ripping off a band aid, get it over with and move on.

~~~
akerl_
This isn't about destroying SMS, it's about Apple's OS blocking communication
to a number because they make permanent assumptions about the device at the
other end.

