
Paperd.Ink – A hackable e-paper display - robertlangdon
https://paperd.ink/
======
dang
It looks like a great project, but please don't put Show HN in titles until
it's ready for users to try out. This is in the Show HN rules:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html).

------
robertlangdon
UPDATE:

Unfortunately our website crashed and we're fixing it.

Youtube:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srrAUOsWHMs&t=3s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srrAUOsWHMs&t=3s)

User Research Typeform:
[https://prasad463729.typeform.com/to/cmp81P](https://prasad463729.typeform.com/to/cmp81P)

Hackaday:
[https://hackaday.io/project/168668-paperdink](https://hackaday.io/project/168668-paperdink)

Github:
[https://github.com/rgujju/paperdink](https://github.com/rgujju/paperdink)

Specs: Monochrome, 4.2", 400x300 resolution

We're looking at a selling price of $59 currently however there's a lot of
scope to improve further. Looking at crowdfunding and other options for
funding.

Lastly, this is the first time we've posted on HN so please bear with me if
there were any novice mistakes (like spamming link/lines in every comment,
which has been rectified now).

Thanks for all the support and feedback coming in!

~~~
OJFord
Have you shared this on /r/HomeAutomation and /r/HomeAssistant?

Much less technical crowd in general than HN, but framing old tablets (as
informational displays of 'smart home' state etc.) is quite popular, and I
think your project is much more suited to it: much lower-power (such a device
is only useful if always-on really), and much less distracting (e-paper not
glaring bright colourful iPad or whatever).

Looks great, I'd definitely be interested at $59 (in £) if it's
sufficiently/easily enough hackable!

~~~
weejewel
Check this out: [https://homey.ink](https://homey.ink)

~~~
OJFord
Ah, making it run on Kobo is a neat solution, I didn't think of that.

Hadn't heard of Homey.app that that's for, but yes I guess what I'm suggesting
is that Paperd.ink could be a good 'that, but for people that DIY with
HomeAssistant/OpenHAB/whatever'.

~~~
weejewel
Absolutely, this project has a great DIY vibe and might be better suited to
build into the wall.

Using a Kobo eReader on the other hand is a great purpose for when you’re not
using it. Now when I leave for holiday I just take it from the wall :)

------
jmiskovic
Here's some hopefully constructive feedback.

The RGB LED looks jarring against monochrome e-ink screen. It also gives
impression of cheap electronics, and rough 3d printed case doesn't help. The
e-ink feels elegant, solid (no flickering) and timeless, while LED is nervous,
overly bright and loud. If you really need a LED, put a white one.

Maybe try to prototype audiophile hi-fi style case. Something wooden or even
black glass. It would raise the price but there is obviously large interest.

The site doesn't give any information on programming, only that UART-USB is
included. Is it serving web page? Can it execute user binaries? Is some GUI
toolkit supported? Without providing this info you can hardly claim it's
hackable.

~~~
robertlangdon
That was surely insightful. We'll test with a white LED.

And we're working on the binaries and GUI, it seems like current hardware
won't be able to serve web pages.

~~~
playpause
Why do you need an LED at all?

~~~
bsdubernerd
Fully agree. A white LED might be better, as long as is for notifications
only. There's no need for having a constant light otherwise (that's the beauty
of eink)

~~~
robertlangdon
we're tinkering around designs, will check without LED too

------
missosoup
[http://web.archive.org/web/20200216074239/https://paperd.ink...](http://web.archive.org/web/20200216074239/https://paperd.ink/)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srrAUOsWHMs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srrAUOsWHMs)

Enclosure doesn't look great.

~~~
Reventlov
Well, it's 3d printed, so, yeah, probably shitty because printed on the faster
settings.

~~~
robertlangdon
Hey,

Yes it 3D printed, we wanted to test the prototype. If you have any
suggestions do let us know.

Thanks!

~~~
bsdubernerd
You should expect much better results for a 3d print nowdays.

For a prototype which is expected to drive some interest 3d printing is fine,
but print at 0.15 layers and do a couple of runs of sanding combined with
filler before applying some paint. The case will look just like a regular
finished product. I do this for custom projects where I want a perfect finish
and/or show-off prototypes.

The layering is really annoying for some people.

For a final product, depending on the sale numbers, injection molding might be
the only option. SLS and MJF give a very nice result, but the price range
where they're economically viable is very narrow.

------
sk0g
I've wanted an e-ink display for a while, to display persistent-ish
information for a while, like the Premier League table, local weather
forecasts, and upcoming events from my Google Calendar, all in one screen.

Unfortunately, they tend to be quite pricey and small, and I can't find
pricing on this anywhere.

~~~
dan1234
Last time I looked into this, for a potential project, I found Waveshare seem
to be the leaders for the hacker/hobby space.

They’ve got a nice 12.5” display (1304x984) @ $170, which is pricey but big
enough for league tables.

[https://www.waveshare.com/product/displays/12.48inch-e-
paper...](https://www.waveshare.com/product/displays/12.48inch-e-paper-
module-b.htm)

~~~
missosoup
The refresh times on waveshare panels are bad enough to make them useless for
most interesting applications. That particular panel takes 16s to refresh.

~~~
dan1234
16s would be for a full refresh though. If you're making an information based
display you might only need to change a small area per update, which would be
faster (though I couldn't find. any refresh speed in the datasheet).

~~~
numpad0
WaveShare supplied code only allows full resolution full refresh with half
tones and everything.

IIRC someone figured how to expedite it but that someone had to.

------
mellosouls
I remember a similar looking project from a few years ago fwiw:

[https://mpetroff.net/2012/09/kindle-weather-
display/](https://mpetroff.net/2012/09/kindle-weather-display/)

Another, inspired by that: [https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2020/02/turn-an-old-
ereader-into-an...](https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2020/02/turn-an-old-ereader-into-
an-information-screen-nook-str/)

A little off topic, but for anybody interested in doing something for
themselves, there are various "smart mirrors" that aren't e-ink, but use a
tablet screen behind a mirror.

Eg.
[https://www.instructables.com/howto/smart+mirror/](https://www.instructables.com/howto/smart+mirror/)

------
SrslyJosh
This is a cool idea, but I think the capacitive touch buttons are a mistake.

I have two different appliances that have them, and the lack of tactile
feedback is really irritating, especially when a button press doesn't result
in _instant_ visual/audio feedback from the device. (Makes you wonder whether
or not you actually activated the button.)

I strongly suggest using actual buttons.

~~~
GordonS
I also really dislike buttons without feedback - you press them, and get
nothing back. I often end up pressing them far harder than I probably should;
the lack of tactile feedback seems to trick me into doing this.

~~~
codebje
My Magic Trackpad's haptic feedback has died, so now my trackpad has no
feedback.

Sometimes I'm absentmindedly staring at the screen trying to click the desk,
because it feels almost the same as the trackpad now.

Tactile feedback is very important!

------
leoh
I really feel like the E-Ink invention has been mismanaged. These things
should literally be everywhere by now and performing all kinds of functions. I
want one as a second screen and to do most of my development on it. Maybe have
a second one for pulling up documentation. Does anyone know why it has taken
so long for these to go to market except, basically, for e-readers? Someone I
know uses one of these as their main screen. They said it was like their
computer was speaking in an inside voice as opposed to shouting at them.

~~~
sircastor
I remember reading a bit about it. Supposedly the company that produced the
displays was pretty stingy with the technology. Unwilling to sell predict to
you unless you were manufacturing in very large numbers (like e-readers)
That's hearsay of course, take it with a grain of salt

------
solarkraft
Unfortunately all of this is hampered immensely by the still way too high
price of E-Ink displays.

What are you going to build with this, a price tag? I'd love to make some
stuff using E-Ink displays that you can read from a few meters away, but
screens at 8 or more inches are virtually unobtainable. :(

~~~
robertlangdon
You're right, price is a big issue. We want to be able to provide affordable
and useful e-paper displays and are actively working towards the vision.

------
robertlangdon
UPDATE 2:

We're live again.

Could not resolve issue with the current hosting service provider yet so made
a temporary website and routing everything there, which took its time own
again to connect to the domain.

Hopefully this isn't too late. It was really frustrating but many lessons
learnt. Thanks everyone for all the reviews and feedback!

------
mauricesvay
Website looks down, so here's a video of the product
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srrAUOsWHMs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srrAUOsWHMs)

~~~
robertlangdon
Thanks for the help. We're working on fixing the issue.

------
no_wizard
This looks amazing I can think of some really cool applications like a nice
PDF reader that formats technical docs correctly

What’s the status on Color e-ink nowadays? Are we far away from that?

I feel like that’s the holy grail, along with true multitouch on one (last I
checked all e ink displays were resistive touch displays)

~~~
Rebelgecko
Eink that supports yellow and red exists, but from what I've seen the refresh
times are atrocious (like 10-30 seconds)

------
dilippkumar
Here's hopefully some constructive feedback:

Showing the battery state in Volts is almost completely unhelpful because of
the non-linear discharge curve. An approximate of the battery capacity is more
useful (even if not perfectly accurate) than the voltage itself.

~~~
robertlangdon
You're right, it's on our list for updates

------
fake-name
This looks a lot like it's just a waveshare e-ink display in a case with a
esp32. Is there something more there?

If that's the case, ALL the work here is going to be software, and I don't see
any yet. IIRC, that calendar display is example code from somewhere (the
weather icons, in particular).

~~~
rotronic
Yup pretty much. But everything is open source. checkout their github page
[https://github.com/rgujju/paperdink](https://github.com/rgujju/paperdink)

~~~
robertlangdon
Thanks. The code is the example code for our product. but it does not have any
other example code. It uses open source libraries and icons.

[https://hackaday.io/project/168668-paperdink](https://hackaday.io/project/168668-paperdink)

------
dmje
The video looks great and I'd really like to know more.

It's frustrating that the website has been down all day, though. Seems kind of
odd in the world of Netlify / CloudFlare even if it's been HN'd.... :-/

------
dh-g
Interesting project, but if you have an old kindle / kobo that is not being
used they make a good development platform with similar hardware. The
mobileread forums will get you started.

------
mellosouls
This is cool, but e-ink displays have generally had 3 major differentiators
from normal screens:

1\. Comfort reading for long periods.

2\. Ability to read outside in the sun.

3\. Battery duration.

Of those, by far the most important is the first, and this product is
specifically targeted away from that. The third isn't a big deal for a
stationary item that can be wired or plugged in.

I wish you well, but I don't immediately see the problem it's solving - though
there may well be some sort of gap in markets dealing with outdoor products,
eg garden centres and the like.

~~~
pcl
I really like the ambient nature of e-ink displays. I don’t want something
emitting light and dragging my attention to it, but I do want to be able to
glance at the clock or the bus schedule etc.

This looks like a product well-suited to that sort of use case.

------
ronyfadel
What irks me is that this has been on the front page of HN for the past 10
hours, but the website is still down (and OP said they were going to fix it).

What would it take to replace the page with a static html page containing
basic info and the Youtube video until the HN hug of death settles? 10 minutes
of work?

------
nandkeypull
There's also this 6" ESP32-based e-paper platform from Crowd Supply for $99:
[https://www.crowdsupply.com/e-radionica/inkplate-6](https://www.crowdsupply.com/e-radionica/inkplate-6)

------
bitxbit
I would like to see something drag and drop from iOS/Android.

------
bfishadow
Love it. You guys could run a kickstarter campaign.

