
Bees Can Sense the Electric Fields of Flowers (2013) - EndXA
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/phenomena/2013/02/21/bees-can-sense-the-electric-fields-of-flowers/
======
istorical
so what is the over / under on the chance that in 100 years we look back on
the 19-21st century phenomenon of blanketing every centimeter of the planet
with anthropomorphic electromagnetic radiation of varying wavelgenths and just
assume there are no negative downstream effects the same way we look at Romans
drinking from corroded lead pipes

~~~
mhh__
Not impossible but what's the mechanism?

Humans haven't changed too much but societally we now have a much better
understanding of systematically understanding new phenomenon. If there was
something like Lead Poisoning going around, information spreads so quickly
we'd know about it.

That doesn't mean there isn't anything, but there have been people living and
working around extremely strong sources of electromagnetic radiation ever
since the 1930s and no one has been able to demonstrate risk on any
macroscopic scale (There are some papers that do demonstrate a "statistically
significant" detectable link between something an EM exposure, but - even when
the levels are _anywhere near_ safety limits let alone what is actually
outside - these papers can never find any measurable risk to the body). The
fact that nothing has been formally observed as of today establishes a fairly
firm upper bound on the risk due to electromagnetic radiation.

That upper bound means that if there is any actual risk it is sufficiently
subtle as to either be outpaced by the body or other issues (Even if 5G harmed
people, based on the mentioned upper bound, it would still be better to
telecommute than have cars polluting everywhere)

~~~
freeflight
_> If there was something like Lead Poisoning going around, information
spreads so quickly we'd know about it._

If said lead poisoning was profitable, then we'd mostly be busy belittling the
negative effects for decades, until they couldn't be denied/ignored anymore,
at which point most of the damage will already have been done, as it happened
with tetraethyllead [0].

Another example would be the massive money in tobacco and how for decades this
allowed certain profit-interests to dictate the public-health discourse around
smoking it or how oil companies knew about their impact on climate change for
decades before it became a widely-recognized problem [1].

There is no telling what other things that we consider "harmless" now will
later turn out as having absolutely disastrous effects.

Very similar to how people living in Victorian times filled their homes with
all kinds of deadly things because they were considered convenient at the time
[2]. With the luxury of hindsight, it's easy for us to go "Wow, people back
then were kinda stupid", but I have no doubt that 100-200 years from now
people will look at our current ways of living and come to very similar
conclusions about us.

To keep this on-topic: Maybe us blasting the environment with EM radiation is
also a contributing factor bee colonies collapsing, as it might make it more
difficult for bees to find their source of nutrition?

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraethyllead#History](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraethyllead#History)

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExxonMobil_climate_change_cont...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExxonMobil_climate_change_controversy)

[2] [https://youtu.be/K3Jef7i7v1U](https://youtu.be/K3Jef7i7v1U)

~~~
filoeleven
Just to add another example, PFOA / PFAS / GenX, a chemical family used by
DuPont to create non-stick surfaces, is an insidious endocrine disrupters at
very low levels. And it’s basically everywhere.

[https://theintercept.com/series/the-teflon-
toxin/](https://theintercept.com/series/the-teflon-toxin/)

------
9214
I urge everyone interested in similar topics (bioelectricity and natural
electromagnetic phenomena) to grab a copy of Becker's 'Body Electric', it's a
fascinating book.

~~~
7373737373
Also this presentation:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjD1aLm4Thg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjD1aLm4Thg)
(What Bodies Think About: Bioelectric Computation Outside the Nervous System -
NeurIPS 2018)

~~~
9214
Thanks for sharing that! This presentation serves as a nice TL;DR of the book.
I am curious if there's a palpable bio-inspired computational model based on
these discoveries. [1] and [2] in general come to mind.

[1]:
[https://www.researchgate.net/publication/220687776_Robustnes...](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/220687776_Robustness_to_Code_and_Data_Deletion_in_Autocatalytic_Quines)

[2]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomic_computing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomic_computing)

~~~
7373737373
These links are very interesting, thank you! I haven't heard of the term
autonomic computing before. Software systems are so far from achieving
properties of life such as homeostasis...

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filoeleven
And some flowers can hear the bees coming, so they sweeten their nectar!

[https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/flowers-sweeten-
wh...](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/flowers-sweeten-when-they-
hear-bees-buzzing-180971300/)

------
Gnarl
Literature suggestions for those interested in this fascinating topic:

1).
[https://www.researchgate.net/publication/279863242_Oxidative...](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/279863242_Oxidative_mechanisms_of_biological_activity_of_low-
intensity_radiofrequency_radiation)

2).
[https://www.nature.com/articles/srep14914](https://www.nature.com/articles/srep14914)

3).
[https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/1536837910903141...](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/15368379109031410)

------
L_226
I wonder if this is related to colony collapse disorder [0] somehow.

[0] -
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_collapse_disorder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_collapse_disorder)

~~~
kavalg
Can't be ruled out, but I would first look at (improper) pesticide use and
monoculture. At least this is the general observation in my beekeeping
community. We noticed a gradual decline in colonies since the local farmers
started growing rapeseed for biodiesel about 7-8 years ago. It has only gotten
worse recently. Apart from the intensive use of pesticides, compared to other
plants, one other problem that I face with rapeseed, is that the honey
crystallizes really fast. If such honey is left in the hive during winter, its
a sure recipe for failure. Even in the summer, it creates some irregularities
in the food supply (I've seen bees taking it out of the combs after
crystallization).

