
WeWork Files for IPO - idlewords
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/29/business/dealbook/wework-ipo-filing.html
======
iamleppert
I tried co-working as a cure for my WFH remote job depression and it didn’t
work. Everyone sits together and works side by side but don’t talk to each
other. Except for the people that are obviously working together. You don’t
make real relationships, all the connections I made, while diverse and
interesting, were not deep like you how you’d connect with real colleagues.

I tried multiple co-working spaces and in the end I couldn’t replicate the
connection or emotional obligation I felt toward real co-workers. This was
despite all kinds of special events and hand holding by the spaces and forced
socialization. It really feels they are doing their best to “build a
community” so at some level they do know that it can’t just be a bunch of
transient people who don’t really know each other. Or at least that will be
quite depressing if that’s what it becomes. I hate to say it but when you’re
forced to work with someone you do get to know them and bond with them.

In my time there I noticed there was a huge problem with attrition. Just like
I was experiencing, other people were not making the connections and gradually
deciding it wasn’t worth it and thus not coming back. Also, all the forced
socialization and events had a fake and artificial quality to them that
eventually became annoying to me. No, I don’t want to bake cookies with some
random guy I probably won’t ever see again. I soon stopped going to the
events, and I noticed most of the people who went to them were all new people.
The staff all knew this and they even tried to guilt us into attending the
events, which just made it even more weird & awkward.

Did anyone else have this experience? Maybe I’m just unique but I can’t help
but feel these sorts of spaces may be just burning through a bunch of people
trying them out and who knows where the bottom of that is? I’d like to see the
attrition numbers of these places, which will ultimately tell you if it’s
worth all this investment or not.

~~~
ravenstine
That's my experience to a tee, although I'm not particularly bothered by it
since I don't use "coworking" as a means to socialize or network, though I
know it's sold as a way to facilitate networking. If I need to network, I
simply go to industry meetups on Meetup.com, which are free.

And yeah, a lot of the events these places have, while certainly well-
intentioned, don't work that well in my experience. It's really not that easy
to get to know people in these facilities since the expectation is that
everyone be able to focus on what they are doing, so few feel comfortable
striking up conversations with people they don't know. I'm sure it's regional
to a degree, but that's my experience.

I currently use a coworking space because I've found no other suitable places
to work, and will have to do so until I find a home with a room that can be my
office. Once I move, I won't ever go back to coworking if I can avoid it.
Well, maybe I would if it was $50 a month, but paying hundreds of dollars a
month for a chair and WiFi is pretty excessive. Most of the perks offered by
coworking spaces can be had elsewhere for much cheaper.

~~~
arvinsim
Lunch should usually be the time that people can bond. But people usually opt
to continue working or eat with their colleagues.

------
rcconf
I work at WeWork and I love it. The value comes from being able to network and
have a place to meet and socialize while contracting. I don't really value
WeWork for the space, but for the people. I find coworking spaces like WeWork
to be quite an amazing place to socialize. As you age, it becomes more
difficult to make friends and when working at 1 company, you usually surround
yourself with the same people.

At WeWork you get to meet people from many different backgrounds and
companies. I met a friend who owns an insurance company (on a Microsoft
stack.), another that owns a tech company for efficient travel to work (on a
React stack), a group of people who have monthly subscription box companies
(Shopify + CMS) and then an individual who owns an investment firm (various
advice on how startups are doing in the city.)

Each individual brings something to the table and I've learned a lot from
them. We hang out on weekends and drink beer together. Socializing is critical
for human happiness. That's the value add for WeWork for contractors in my
opinion, the space is secondary.

There are competitors, I've tried a few, but I found the WeWork space to be
more professional. It costs more, but you get more in my opinion (in terms of
space.) The other coworking spaces are kind of ugly, or they don't have
constant events like WeWork. I'm sure this point varies heavily depending on
the city. I'm sure monthly rate helps with keeping the space fresh.

I am unsure about the valuation here, but I would consider WeWork and
coworking spaces the best thing to ever happen to my social life. I went from
a rather introverted person to being quite extroverted and growing
emotionally. This had many other factors, but WeWork contributed.

~~~
tenpies
I very much see it as Crossfit. The WoDs[1] cost $0 and the equipment cost is
relatively trivial - you can get this stuff almost anywhere and do it on your
own. However, membership at a Crossfit box[2] commands a huge premium due in
large part to the social aspect.

At Crossfit or fitness events, you also hear athletes[3] introduce themselves
as X from Y Box. I can't help but be reminded of when I hear religious people
introducing themselves as X from Y Parish/Mosque/Synagogue. It can become a
central part of your identity and one of the first labels you apply to your
self.

\---

[1] That's Crossfit for workout of the day

[2] That's Crossfit for "gym"

[3] That's Crossfit for someone who does Crossfit

~~~
doppp
Too many people think religion is something only found in a church.

On a sidenote, I'm reminded how many ex-Googlers blog about leaving Google
akin to how someone talks about leaving a religion. Very cult-like, almost.

~~~
jjeaff
I get the idea though, that ex-googlers talk about leaving Google for the same
reason Harvard grads/dropouts like to work that into their conversations.

~~~
bayonetz
How do you if someone went to Harvard?...don’t worry, they will tell you!

------
dvt
Like others in this thread, I don't really get the point of WeWork.

I'm 100% remote and I prefer working at coffee shops, campuses (UCLA, SMCC),
or libraries -- I prefer my environment to feel less like "work" and more
"creative." I also get to interact with a largely diverse group of people (as
opposed to mostly tech people that work at WeWork). Going to a coffee shop is
also cheaper (I buy ~2 items a day), I get to meet neighbors, plug myself into
my local community, and sometimes even make small talk with cute girls.

I think a good idea might be "reserving" seats at cool spots around town
(coffee shops, bookstores, etc.) -- would be cheaper than a WeWork and (I
think) more desireable. Think ClassPass for co-working.

~~~
rb808
Its one reason I hate cafes in America, its full of people working on laptops,
its a horrible atmosphere. As for campuses I'm surprised you're allowed to
hang out there all day. Libraries in NYC are mostly for homeless people.

~~~
merolish
I've come to avoid having dates or catching up with friends at certain coffee
shop-style places after a couple experiences where we were literally
surrounded by people silently on their laptops. I prefer to have conversations
without an audience of strangers.

And this is probably me getting old but I don't know how people can spend
hours hunched over a laptop in café seating, as opposed to an ergonomic office
chair and monitor at eye level.

~~~
cco
>And this is probably me getting old but I don't know how people can spend
hours hunched over a laptop in café seating, as opposed to an ergonomic office
chair and monitor at eye level.

Ask any orthopedist, it catches up to them. We can all buffer it for a certain
amount of time, but anybody who does this for a long time will develop issues.

------
anm89
I feel like I'm the target market for WeWork, a 30 year old contractor who
primarily works out of coworking spaces and I have never seen any appeal in
WeWork. Yeah, they are nice, but at their price they are not a good value
relative to competitors in any major city I've seen.

The two times I walked into one to try to get a tour in various cities I was
told it was appointment only. The value proposition wasn't good enough to
schedule time for a tour so that was the end of my interaction with WeWork.

Also they had tons of full time staff just sitting around. Why not just show
me around like every other coworking space in the world? Just left a bad taste
in my mouth.

~~~
rossenberg79
There’s lots of reasons to hate WeWork, but not giving a tour isn’t one of
them. If they did that for you and a few others then word would get around
that you don’t really need appointments for tours and that would cause other
problems. Nothing personal.

~~~
mandelbrotwurst
If they gave tours when their staff had spare capacity to do so and required
appointments otherwise, what kind of problems would that cause?

What cost would those problems have to the business? Would those outweigh the
lost sales from refusing tours?

~~~
jeltz
That is a fair point. If they are not busy there is not really any reason to
not offer a tour. But I can also understand why they heavily prefer
appointments. Having random people show up and interrupt your work can be
annoying.

~~~
anm89
It's a communal space. If they see me coming in to an open area as
"disrupting" that's probably not a community I'm interested in anyway.

It's not like I was requesting to see a meeting room that was in use.

------
themagician
Every WeWork is different.

I was one of the very first WeWork customers in New York. I was in the
Chinatown building when it was still unfinished. I remember someone asking me
about decor and what I thought they should do. I think it might have even been
Adam Neumann himself.

\- Some locations are filled with real people doing actual business and
provide real networking opportunities.

\- Some locations are dominated by a single startup.

\- Some locations are filled with rich kids goofing off, drinking on the roof.

\- Some locations are filled with scammers running all sorts of scams. (I've
seen everything from bogus "information products" to outright ponzi's to fake
doctors providing injections and transfusion for hangovers.)

\- Some locations provide an address for otherwise illegal businesses.

I've probably been to over two dozen WeWork locations. Every one has its own
vibe. They very much represent what's happening around them. I kept at least
the minimum level subscription up until a year ago when I finally cancelled
completely.

The problem with WeWork is, in my opinion, that you never know what to expect.
You can't rely on it being quiet. You can't reliably have a serious meeting if
there's going to be some idiots outside the door screwing around, or someone
is going to use the meeting room across from you to host an informal audition
for a porn shoot and there's a line of scantily clad women stretching down the
hall.

I suspect that management knows this and it's part of the reason why they
tried to drop the "work" in WeWork and just become We Company. WeWork is going
to turn into something of a social club. Sure, you can work there if you want
to, the same way you can work out of The Battery or the Soho House if you
want. WeWork is just going to become a broadly accessible version of a social
club. Pay a monthly fee and get to feel like you are part of something
exclusive.

------
areoform
Out of all the recent IPOs, WeWork has both the most certain and uncertain
future of them all. The spaces are clearly differentiated, hard to replicate
(without a significant capital injection from a limited number of players who
have a stake in WeWork anyway) and have the clearest economic model of all the
recent startups; offer services + community (to the extent a place like this
can offer one) + great workspaces to companies looking to mimic FANG benefits
without investing significant capital.

But everything rests on the edge of a knife. The underlying price sensitivity,
the economics of providing the service and the rent of the space. Their model
of cut-rate rents is subject to local trends and their investment in each
property means that it is not easy for them to shift locations and it would be
a significant loss if local landlords got out of hand. As a global company,
not every market has strong renter's protections and it makes me wonder how
they'll protect their assets when people realize that they could get more from
them. Then there is the CEO that leased properties he owned to the We Company,
making millions in the process - [https://www.wsj.com/articles/weworks-ceo-
makes-millions-as-l...](https://www.wsj.com/articles/weworks-ceo-makes-
millions-as-landlord-to-wework-11547640000) (this bit of impropriety should
raise eyebrows and raises questions about the company's ability to prevent
such rolling conflict of interests going forward).

It is unclear to me how they'll position themselves for the long-term given
the variability in real-estate. We are in the run-up to a recession, but after
that when it's boom times again and prices rise rapidly, again, how will
WeWork survive? Do they plan on buying properties during the bust? What's the
long-term plan over here that ensures that they keep on top of the food chain?
What is the lock for their spaces?

Edit: The company might be losing money in the pursuit for growth but the
model is clear in the sense that they provide services + benefits (swimming
pools, beer, massage bars etc etc) on top of leasing out space for a fixed
amount X. Unlike Uber, it is easy to imagine them minmaxing this to make
money. It's not hard and they lack the kind of competition (Lyft) that would
trap them at this low price point as few places in the different jurisdictions
that they operate in can offer similar services due to the large upfront
investment involved.

~~~
greenyoda
> they lack the kind of competition that would trap them at this low price
> point as few places in the different jurisdictions that they operate in can
> offer similar services due to the large upfront investment involved

If these types of services become popular, couldn't any commercial landlord
start offering these services in the buildings they already own?

~~~
ben509
I have used their WeWork, for what that's worth. There's a good amount of tech
in managing badges, their website, allocating rooms and IT. (Though, TBH, it's
not exactly stellar web design.) The team that manages the buildings does a
good bit more than a typical landlord.

I think many landlords would make awful clones and lose a lot of money, at
least at first.

~~~
rwmj
There's a business right there, selling white label office management software
direct to landlords.

Which in turn raises the question: Why do WeWork bother with renting the
properties? Uber doesn't rent cars, they just provide software and a network
to drivers and riders, and something similar might work for renters and
property owners (AirBnB for offices, essentially).

~~~
michaelt
UK serviced office provider Regus offers "franchise opportunities" [1] if you
know any landlords who'd like to turn their offices into a wework-like-
business.

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=19783108&goto=item%3Fi...](https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=19783108&goto=item%3Fid%3D19781549%2319783108)

------
lawrenceyan
I see the looming edge of an economic recession as large swathes of hugely
unprofitable companies with heavy debt offload their stock onto the public
markets.

Not only have a large amount of IPOs in recent months been heavily downgraded
in initial pricing like Lyft, Pinterest, etc. They continue to drop in value
day by day as they’re traded openly. I place a substantial amount of blame on
SoftBank and by association, the Saudi Arabians, for unnecessarily inflating
this current bubble to disproportionate levels. It will only cause the
resultant crash to be all that much more damaging.

~~~
opportune
It's only a recession if it affects macroeconomic indicators right? So a big
drop in stocks doesn't really indicate a recession only. Kind of like how the
dotcom crash tanked lots of overvalued junk tech companies, but didn't really
cause a recession

~~~
lawrenceyan
Confidence is the fundamental currency that determines whether the economy
trends towards growth or recession.

And recent events by these privately held companies show a keen lack of
confidence in my opinion. That they’ve all chosen to IPO now at the same time
gives you a strong indicator to look at. You might disagree with my final
determination on what it means exactly, but the fact that it’s happening is
undeniable.

As to macroeconomic indicators, I think the majority of them are largely
useless as predictors and at best self-fulfilling in nature.

------
hoodwink
I’ve worked in real estate private equity, specifically office acquisitions,
my entire 15 year career and I can say I used to despise WeWork as much as
everyone here.

After doing the work to understand the business, however, I now take a
contrarian position:

WeWork is legit.

They may not be worth $47bn, and many of these non-office endeavors may prove
silly, but the coworking side is here to stay. And it is transforming (dare I
say, disrupting) the old line, conservative office real estate industry.

WeWork has collapsed the design-build value chain such that they can build
workplaces in one-half the time as the rest of us, at a 40% discount. It’s
staggering.

~~~
avinium
How can you say they're disrupting anyting? WeWork didn't invent coworking,
they don't have a unique offering and I don't believe they have any
competitive advantage beyond capital reserves.

I swapped coworking spaces purely because WeWork took it over - they're an
incredibly obnoxious company, they're expensive and they've overexpanded. This
is one IPO I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.

~~~
hoodwink
You don't understand the business. You think WeWork is for individuals like
you. It's not. It's for enterprises.

In any case, I addressed their staggering competitive advantage in my original
post. They can build space in one-half the time at 60% of the cost because
they have a 2,000 person multidisciplinary product team made up of architects,
engineers, interior designers, developers, and contractors. They've integrated
the value chain like Amazon has in online retail.

They're disrupting the industrial complex of lawyers, lenders, brokers, and
landlords who surround the Kafkaesque, traditional, 10-year office lease.

WeWork is not even close to overexpanding. Coworking is less than 2% of the 10
billion square foot US office market. It's going to 30% or beyond. They
haven't even hit the vertical part of the S-curve.

Remember, coworking may have started with individuals like you, but now the
much larger source of demand is enterprise. With actual companies WeWork and
coworking are substitutes to a painful, limited-service, long-term lease.

~~~
avinium
> You don't understand the business. You think WeWork is for individuals like
> you. It's not. It's for enterprises.

What's your definition of "enterprise" leasing? 200+ sqm leases for 3 years?

Either way, I guess we'll have to wait for the WeWork S-1 to see whether or
not your assessment is correct.

However, if my personal experience of 5 (admittedly international) WeWork
offices is anything to go by, it's not. The tenants I saw were overwhelmingly
3-10 person teams (and when they exceeded that number, they moved out and
traded up for a more traditional/permanent office lease).

Of course, that's just anecdotal, and hardly statistically significant. You
might be right - if so, I'm guessing their S-1 will show 30%+ of revenue from
longer-term enterprise leases.

But even if that's true, I still don't see it as an advantage. Serviced
offices and independent coworking spaces offering "spillover" space for
enterprises are a dime a dozen. I'll grant that WeWork might have an advantage
in interior design & fitout - but again, so what? How many companies will pay
a premium for a "WeWork designed office"? How many even care?

This is obviously a lot of speculation about what businesses want and what
they're willing to pay for. Maybe you're right, maybe I'm right - who knows.
We'll keep a close eye on the numbers and see which one is correct.

------
mrchess
Why do people like WeWork? Here in Singapore, a hot-desk at WeWork is $400+
USD a mont. Am I crazy, or is $400 a month a lot of money for a hot-desk with
decent internet?

Or is it one of those things where all their money is in the big rentals, and
the hot-desks are just for show?

~~~
Gpetrium
$400 for a month is close to $20 per day or $2.25 an hour(4 weeks*5 weekdays).
If the environment WeWork gives provides a boost in your productivity, helps
you network with other like-minded individuals, increases your brand exposure,
provided extra amenities, decreases the cost in comparison to your current
environment, etc. Then it may be worth it.

~~~
mrchess
For me it ended up not being worth it because I don't go in every day. In my
case, the point of me WFH is so that I could get my commute time back, not
just spend it going to a "different" office. With that said, I found myself
only going in about 2x a week, which made it not worth it for me.

------
rchaud
> While WeWork’s revenue is growing quickly — it doubled last year to $1.8
> billion — so are its losses, which more than doubled to $1.9 billion. Those
> companies, like WeWork, Uber and Lyft, have argued that growing quickly is
> more important, and will eventually prove more lucrative, than breaking even
> right now.

I'd agree with this outlook if this wasn't a 10-year old company that's
already burned through billions in VC money. When you account for that, the
"losses-now-are-good" logic only makes sense if you're a VC who needs to make
their money back.

~~~
yhoiseth
Should you consider past losses at all, though? Wouldn't you just be
committing the sunk cost fallacy? [1]

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost)

~~~
rchaud
I'd consider sunk costs on a project basis, as way to determine the
profitability of an individual project, like the construction of an office
building.

For an IPO for a commercial leasing company however, a growth stock should be
demonstrating positive cash flow net of financing costs. I know WeWork has
these absurd WeLearn, WeLive pipe dreams to explain their growth strategy, but
that takes time, and can be reversed suddenly.

Uber's big pitch was "self-driving taxis" until the new CEO arrived, saw that
it was a pipe dream, and focused the growth trajectory on to something more
realistic like bike sharing and meal delivery.

Given all that, if WeWork are IPO'ing now, I'm interested in seeing how far
away they are from positive cash flow on their core business as it stands.

~~~
Phillipharryt
In the long term you're literally not supposed to consider sunk costs when
evaluating a project, it's like finance 101.

------
umeshunni
Looks like its a confidential filing. No recent results in
[https://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-
edgar?action=getcompany&C...](https://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-
edgar?action=getcompany&CIK=0001533523&owner=exclude&count=40)

We'll have to wait for the public S-1 to understand their financials.

~~~
hbcondo714
For those wanting to track this more, here's the RSS link:

[https://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-
edgar?action=getcompany&C...](https://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-
edgar?action=getcompany&CIK=0001533523&type=&dateb=&owner=exclude&start=0&count=40&output=atom)

------
iooi
What I don't understand about these companies that are filing with massive
losses is how they plan to survive a mild recession. They're losing tons of
cash during great economic conditions. What happens during a recession, when
suddenly it's cheaper for tenants to break their leases?

~~~
fullshark
> suddenly it's cheaper for tenants to break their leases?

Isn't that also maybe good for WeWork?

The following could happen:

1\. WeWork will close down some sites

2\. Threaten to close more and shake down their landlords for better lease
conditions (since there's fewer people looking to rent corporate real estate)

3\. Other companies will look to close down their own satellite offices and
transfer workers to WeWork sites for cost savings.

That's the bullish case for WeWork in a recession, I don't think it's absurd.

~~~
Traster
This gets the dynamic wrong though - WeWork has long term contracts with their
suppliers and short term contracts with their customers. So what actually
happens in a recession:

1\. Businesses cancel their WeWork spaces because they're laying people off
with 0-6 months notice.

2\. WeWork has to eat the cost of low-occupancy buildings until their leases
are up for renewal - which could be 5, 10 years down the line.

3\. As the market heats back up WeWork change charge a lot for the office
leases they established cheaply during the recession giving them low cost,
high value rental spaces.

Notice how at stage 2 you're going to have a few years where you've got a drop
in revenue but high fixed costs? Normal office rental companies plan for this
because of the cyclical nature of the market. The question you've got to
answer is can WeWork weather that storm - and I would've though it obvious
that it's in a bad position since right now they have $6.6Bn cash and lose
$2Bn a year.

Also I've got to challenge you on this:

>3\. Other companies will look to close down their own satellite offices and
transfer workers to WeWork sites for cost savings.

I think this is just utterly implausible. Companies don't shut down their
satellite offices to move workers into smaller more expensive per head
offices. What is far more likely to happen is that they cut head count and use
the spare office space in their head office to close down satellite offices
and move them to headquarters and close down small offices and move them to
regional offices. That effect will reduce demand for WeWork, not increase it.

Take Intel as an example of this: When they wanted to reduce head count the
first step was to shut down failing projects and fire under performing
employees. Their second step was then to use the spare space in their large
offices to shut down small offices and consolidate into their big offices. All
their big offices are offices they own or have extremely long term rents on,
all the offices they didn't were much smaller and much more likely to be
rental spaces - which is why it saved money to shut them down in the first
place.

------
opportune
I think the dark horse feature of wework that may make it relatively recession
proof is that recessions might increase demand for wework office space. More
unemployed/underemployed white collar workers might turn to wework offices to
work in startups or just to have some sort of office environment to get things
done in

------
mothsonasloth
I think of WeWork as a haven for middle class yuppies who like to socialize
with other "like minded" individuals who are trying to make the world a better
place, with their sustainably produced dog outfits.

------
jgalt212
Looking forward to reading the "Related Persons Transactions" section.

------
pdq
Revenue of $1.8 billion.

Loss of $1.9 billion.

Thus, they are selling a dollar for 49 cents. [1]

How is this a sustainable business model?

[1] 1.8/(1.8+1.9)=0.49

~~~
mrnobody_67
Clearly it's a great way to become a billionaire...

------
beager
> Technically, its parent company is the We Company, whose stated mission is
> “to elevate the world’s consciousness.”

Well, they're right. I'm now more conscious of how absurd their mission is.

------
impendia
I am confused about how they could be valued at $47 billion. (Unless they own
$46.9 billion worth of real estate.)

Let's suppose this company can eventually turn a profit (which already seems
to be in doubt). I see nothing to prevent competitors from renting out real
estate, nor customers from switching. So what then is to stop WeAlsoWork,
WeWorkToo, and WeWorkHarder from springing up like mushrooms?

~~~
Traster
The argument is network effects, you come to WeWork for the community. It's
difficult and capital intensive to attract enough people to build a community
so that's their moat. I don't belive it is anywhere near as valuable as they
seem to think, but that's their argument.

------
oli5679
I really enjoyed Sam Altman's criticism of coworking spaces.

[https://medium.com/conversations-with-tyler/tyler-cowen-
sam-...](https://medium.com/conversations-with-tyler/tyler-cowen-sam-altman-
ai-tech-business-58f530417522)

"Every time someone decides they’re going to build the next Y Combinator, the
idea is always the following: “It’s going to be just like Y Combinator, except
we’re going to provide free coworking space.” I always want to say to people,
“Did you ever think that maybe we thought about that, and it’s a feature, not
a bug, that we don’t have it?”

I think the single thing that has differentiated YC more than any other
decision we’ve made is that we do not have a coworking space. We bring the
companies together once a week, but that’s it. It’s enough for a community,
but it is enough to build your own identity.

Coworking spaces have two big classes of problems. Number one, they are a
band-pass filter. Good ideas — actually, no, great ideas are fragile. Great
ideas are easy to kill. An idea in its larval stage — all the best ideas when
I first heard them sound bad. And all of us, myself included, are much more
affected by what other people think of us and our ideas then we like to admit.

If you are just four people in your own door, and you have an idea that sounds
bad but is great, you can keep that self-delusion going. If you’re in a
coworking space, people laugh at you, and no one wants to be the kid picked
last at recess. So you change your idea to something that sounds plausible but
is never going to matter. It’s true that coworking spaces do kill off the very
worst ideas, but a band-pass filter for startups is a terrible thing because
they kill off the best ideas, too.

The other thing is the average level of ambition and willingness to work hard
at a coworking space is incredibly low. There’s this reversion to the mean
that is not what you want in your life."

------
fergyfresh
WeWork does for office space what companies like Just Works does for HR stuff.

We are a small company that works out of NYC and WeWork is great for New York.
Most office leases have a 2-5 year minimum and you have you deal with getting
office furniture, janitorial services, etc. It's a LOT of overhead for a small
company. Also they let you go month to month or sign up for multiple years at
a discount.

Also you don't have to worry about overpaying for office space as wework lets
you grow from office to office without having to change your whole office
setting slash commute. Its also not HORRIBLE pricing wise if you're okay with
having a slightly smaller office space, because it does have a common area
with free coffee, milk, beer, etc.

TLDR: WeWork is more than just a sexy startup office space. It also gives you
flexibility until you get big enough to be able to need a massive office.

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evantahler
Yep! In downtown Seattle, if you factor in all the overhead, WeWork is cheaper
by person until you hit ~15 people... and without that 3 year lease!

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Saturdays
I think a lot of folks here think WeWork is just a co-working space.

WeWork has full on teams from F500s occupying their spaces in some locations,
sometimes even completely isolated from externals companies by building or
floor. Its a great trade-off to owning/renting and managing your own space.
I'm not saying its cheaper in all respects.. but its less of a headache, and
less headcount needed to manage. The individual co-working space is the small
play.

It is especially more lucrative if you think about it from a real estate
perspective, there are so many provisions and ways to grow that investment if
you own key properties.

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nicolas_t
I got 3 months hot-desk for free at a local Wework. I tried it and stayed 2
hours and an half. I never went back.

The chairs were uncomfortable, the place was loud and overall the work
environment was worse than a starbucks (starbucks is for me the minimum
acceptable level of a coffee shop to work in).

I get that it might make sense for companies sharing a desk, but it definitely
doesn't make sense for someone like me who works remotely from home,
especially not for the $600/month they ask for in HK. If they had comfortable
chairs and monitors I could sometimes connect to when needed, it might make
sense.

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crsv
It's going to be awesome to compare their S-1 to Uber's to see who is the most
financially unviable in terms of sustainable operations.

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pbreit
This comment shows no understanding of business or finance. For example, Uber
prints money on non-pool rides in mature markets.

~~~
jgalt212
Fair enough, but if you take IBM's best product it looks like a great biz. The
same goes for GE and any other currently struggling old economy biz. Even for
places as colossally messed up as Deutsche Bank, you can spin the same yarn.

~~~
pbreit
you’ve cited 3 examples of the opposite of a young hyper growth company.

~~~
jgalt212
Yes, that's true. The larger point, which I have not been able to successfully
convey to you is that any venture can be made to look great when you get the
pick the metrics of success.

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tyingq
Curious if the S1 mentions that the CEO personally owns many of the buildings
they rent out. [https://www.wsj.com/articles/weworks-ceo-makes-millions-
as-l...](https://www.wsj.com/articles/weworks-ceo-makes-millions-as-landlord-
to-wework-11547640000)

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YeahSureWhyNot
WeWork is buying properties and signing long term lease agreements at the very
peak of the market right now and for the past few years. We all know real
estate goes up and down and these purchases/leases made at the peak aren't
going to be easy to keep paying for when real estate cools off.

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formercoder
Very curious to see what their cash flows are like. WeWork has a ton of what
Is effectively debt in the form of capital leases. A key indicator is going to
be what load factor can they maintain profitability at.

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Taylor_OD
I'm in a WeWork right now. Trying to get out as soon as possible. They just
dont have spaces for anyone who needs to do phone sales. We've had to do so
much to make our space work acoustically for us.

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pl0x
Let us see how the public markets will tolerate the founder buying $60 million
dollar private jets and starting a school just for wealthy kids.

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joeblau
This is going to be spectacular to watch.

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bfrog
Another pyramid scheme public investor dump. Another stock I'll be shorting.

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hellbanner
You forgot the rest of the title.

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marinosbern
I've had an office/desk at WeWork in NYC since 2014 (although I almost never
use it any more). It's been interesting to see WeWork's evolution through the
years.

At the beginning, there was a lot of emphasis on community building, almost
acting like a fake incubator with "WeWork Labs" (which has since shut down).
The same pattern would repeat itself: new ambitious founder moves in
(typically ex-Deloitte-type-person), would talk a strong game about how
they're changing the world and reinventing and revolutionizing. Would have
loud meetings in the conference rooms and loud fundraising calls in the phone
booths that everyone would overhear and supposedly be envious of how much
funding they are about to get. They would always be asking around about
'connecting' them to people who can build this app idea that they have, and
how much it costs to build an app. Then, 6 months later, you would look at
their desks. Empty. They were gone. We would never hear from them or see them
again. I have seen this cycle repeat countless times. Starting around 2016,
WeWork shifted its its efforts towards leasing to larger businesses instead of
small startups or individuals. For example, last month my friend was given
notice that they need to move because because a new company is renting the
entire "dedicated desk" area (about 80 desks).

I found it to be a very bad environment for a coder to be in. The offices are
all right next to each other and the only thing separating them is a single
pane of glass. Typically, 80% of the offices are occupied by loud sales-type
people, who are yelling on the phone to their "overseas developers". Even if
you're wearing headphones, it's pretty annoying. Especially when their
conversations reveal how terrible their products and businesses are. When
everyone is working at the same company, open-office-style environments are
easier, because there's a level of respect among coworkers. But when you're
surrounded by other companies, it's very hard to enforce.

So, bottom line, if you're there to meet interesting people or be surrounded
by quality companies, you will be disappointed. And if you're there to code in
a quiet environment, better to stay at home.

It's easy to hate on WeWork. But WeWork offers a few things that are very hard
to match. First, design. You get an office space and environment (furniture,
rooms, common spaces, food, snacks, coffee) that feels like you're working at
a large fun tech office, which would be impossible to replicate if you just
leased a commercial space on your own. Second, consistency. I can go to any
WeWork in the world and I know exactly what it's going to be like — what the
conference rooms will look like, how to book a day desk, how to print, etc. I
know that it's going to be a good environment to have a client meeting or to
do work, and I won't be let down. Third, flexibility. Most leases are month to
month, and so it's very easy to move to different neighborhoods and offices
(I've switched buildings 3 times). Good design, consistency and flexibility
should not be discounted. I know I can rely on WeWork wherever I go. And so
that's why I've still kept an office there as a pied-a-terre even though I
almost never use it anymore

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JohnJamesRambo
The ponzi is almost done now and ready to get out of the oven.

