

 We want to increase the number of women in software development. - davj
http://www.hackstaracademy.com

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uptown
"Our Mission - Our mission is to teach people software development in order to
help them pursue their passions."

Doesn't it stand to reason that if their passion was software development,
they'd be doing it irregardless of their gender?

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krisaacs
(Hi. Woman here.) Well, yes. Like anything, if it was a known, lifelong
passion, then I’d/women would already be doing it. However, programming is
something that sounds interesting, could be fun and I bet I’d be good at it
but having been in tech for a few years, the barrier for entry seems pretty
insurmountable. The dev teams I’ve worked with have been exclusively male (I’m
in marketing) and the culture of shouting and condescension seems like more of
a barrier to me than a lost desire to pursue my passions. That said…this seems
like a first step in addressing the situation.

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yummyfajitas
_...the culture of shouting and condescension seems like more of a barrier..._

You seem to be confusing a _barrier_ (something that impedes your movement,
regardless of your choices) from a _preference_ (something that makes you more
likely to make a certain choice).

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cjbprime
I don't think there's a confusion. As far as I'm aware, women consistently
express a preference against the aggressive and disrespectful communication
style that's common to many software projects, meaning that this style
functions as an effective barrier to women (and men who don't like overt
conflict much either) joining these projects.

I don't think nitpicking the semantics adds much here.

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yummyfajitas
Women disliking the communication style of software people is not a barrier.
It's a preference. Women could join if they wanted to, they just don't want
to.

It's not a semantic difference - the difference is whether women are prevented
from performing some activity or whether they choose not to perform it.

Similarly, I don't like banking environments very much. There is no barrier
preventing me from working at Citi, I just never applied for a job there.

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dcalhoun
I've worked with the two fellows starting this program. I'll publicly vouch
for their seriousness and competence in seeing this project through. Whatever
your thoughts on these "bootcamp" style training programs that have been
popping up around the country (see: Dev Bootcamp, Code Academy, Hungry
Academy, Hacker School), they have a real potential to bridge the unfortunate
chasm between the educated underemployed and the desperate and ever-growing
need for software developers and perhaps eventually replace the broken system
of CS education in this country.

If anybody can do it, David and Christian can. Best of luck guys!

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davj
Thanks Doug. I am a former student and Christian helped teach the first cohort
of Dev Bootcamp. It is an incredible program and inspiration to us. There are
more and more options out there to help train people to become developers, it
is a powerful movement and I think it's going to change the world.

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marquis
I know some people taught by Christian recently who couldn't praise him highly
enough. I'm told he is not only highly skilled but also personable and really
knows how to get a concept across. I think this is a really great program and
hope there are some courageous woman out there ready for this. It's hard work
with little sleep in an intensive course, but so rewarding.

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RedWallaroo
Great Idea. I'm still waiting for someone to come up with the online version
of this. Many women simply couldn't travel to SF or NYC (Hacker School) for
several weeks to get training. In a Mother-Father-Children household, it is
still more feasible for the Father to be away for weeks rather than the Mom.
Society is just used to that type of scenario more often than the other way
around.

It is even more difficult for single moms (which I'm sure is a much larger
number compared to single fathers in the US). Anyhow, my point is that for
many girls, there are valid reasons why they can't follow their 'passions' or
why they would need to follow them while keeping up with other
responsibilities as well.

The advantage of having programs like these where they could have the input
and support from mentors and a group of fellow students is certainly a big
plus and I would love to see someone replicating the same environment online
so that accessibility to these opportunities is not an issue.

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Tulio
Much to say… I recently got a chance to meet these two people and within that
first meeting, I could tell they were on to something… most importantly; it
was coming from the right place. I gotta speak on Christians teaching style,
having met a lot of programmers and read many books; it’s a treat getting a
chance to meet and learn from a person that has so many contexts from which to
pull a clearly explained, simple to understand answer. But that doesn’t really
do him justice in the sense that, it’s important to understand when you can
say more and when you should hold off, and he’s got that. I’m currently taking
classes from Christian and David (tonight in fact) and I can say that I look
forward to getting the insights that you can only get when you talk to people
who are intimately familiar with the environment around development and the
coming and going technology and programing paradigms. They even brought a
Google engineer the first night, come on! That's pretty COOL! For me, this is
the most excellent way to get a chance to rev up my skill set without having
to put my carrer aside for 18 months to several years to get it from a formal
school. And on that subject, all the engenieers and CEOs that I’ve talked to
say the same thing, education is awesome, but show me what you’ve built. From
day one in our class, they said on day two we’re gonna start on our projects.
That’s learning by doing… and if you’ve ever spent 30 hours figuring out that
you missed setting a reference somewhere that coulda been spotted in 15
seconds by someone who was looking over your shoulder… then you can appreciate
a place where your day consist of coding with peers rather than reading about
chapter 23 by yourself! Let me build something that has meaning to me... and
they're doing just that! David is awesome too! Very personable and a testament
to how good of a teacher Christian is… ‘cuz he can get down with the code too!
Gotta go! Got some work I gotta show up to class with. These people leave you
feeling like you’re so lucky to have them as your new friends that you don’t
want to disappoint them or yourself. I’m sending a friend to go and apply for
their summer fellowship for women. I love to see anyone who just needed a
push… finally get there! Much Luv Guys!

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bsphil
If women are given equal treatment, education, opportunities, etc. as they
grow up from day 1, would that balance the ratio of female engineers with
males?

Honestly, I don't think so. With all the freedom and opportunity in the world,
the differences in brain chemistry between genders will tend to favor
particular career paths.

Preemptive disclaimer: I don't think that people should be shoehorned into a
particular career because of their gender, nor do I think that equality
between genders in terms of employment and pay is unworthy of effort. Just
don't be shocked if that ratio never hits 50/50 because women with the
opportunities still don't want to be engineers.

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cmsj
Even assuming that your uncited brain chemistry claim is true, I'm sure you'd
agree that the balance is a very long way from 50/50 right now, and that it
would be great if it could be improved :)

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agilecaveman
Ok, i would like to see a more even ratio of men to women in software.
However, making things that are "only for women" will likely increase the
resentment between the sexes.

I do think we have a system problem in our education, but it's not that STEM
favors men, it's that the REST of education heavily favors women. The recent
college attendance numbers are a pretty good indication. STEM is just harder
to discriminate, so more men are drawn to it.

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cmsj
Why would we resent this when it's already so easy for us to get into
programming?

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grogs
I'm really sure a fair few women will resent being given "unfair" advantages.
I've definitely witnessed this in regards to Google giving some free
conference passes to a number of women.

Maybe the education system just needs to interest females before they get the
chance to realise it's "uncool".

The only dev team I've been in thus far has included a woman, in a workplace
which I consider a meritocracy. I've yet to work in a team unsuited to women.

~~~
chriszf
I don't think having a school for women necessarily gives an unfair advantage.
I'm not even sure it's an 'advantage' at all in a male-dominated discipline,
especially given the degree to which engineering is male-dominated.

You're right that girls don't think tech is cool. I've heard this anecdotally
from high school teachers and friends running Girls in Tech programs. I'm not
sure I know how to tackle that specifically.

One problem might be the phenomenon that occurs when you walk into a room full
of people who look nothing like you. As a minority (I know I look Chinese, but
I'm a Samoan-born Filipino), I feel this a little bit all the time. But when I
walked into a local Women Who Code event to meet someone, it was downright
alarming. After experiencing that, I can't blame women for not wanting to
participate in tech at all.

Regarding your last statement, I want to point out that I've never worked with
a woman who was a bad engineer, and seemingly, neither has anyone else.
Conspicuously absent are the unremarkable, or even poorly performing female
engineers, while their male counterparts are everywhere. One expects a more
normal distribution, and I think this indicates some systemic problem, but
it's not one I know how to solve without more data. Right now, I think the
best we can do is address the symptom and add more women into the tech pool
directly.

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rmATinnovafy
I applaud your commitment to open up the computer industry.

Its not about women or men, but about good engineers. The more the better.

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mangodrunk
I think it's good that they're trying to get young people into software
development, but I don't think it's a problem that there is a gender
imbalance. With that said, if there is a way to get a certain group involved,
then more power to them.

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davj
thanks, we'd love to get more of everyone who's excited about it into software
development. if you have any other feedback would love to hear your opinion
d@hackstaracademy.com

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mshafrir
What dates does the program run?

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davj
The program runs for June 4 - August 3

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rflynn
Simple. Incentivize existing programmers to get a sex change.

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pliers
Why? It just sounds like they are looking for Hacker Babes.

