
A new browsing experience arrives in Firefox for Android Nightly - sohkamyung
https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2020/01/17/a-brand-new-browsing-experience-arrives-in-firefox-for-android-nightly/
======
geek-advised
Is it me or this article is really vague? What's the new experience, exactly?

Also, I started using Firefox on my Android phone because of 2 reasons: block
ads and Google seems to be more and more for-profit and not for-users. And I
love Firefox with one exception: when I press a link on another app Firefox
doesn't open but gives me a small notification on the bottom the screen saying
the tab opened in Firefox. I find this really annoying as I wouldn't press a
link if I didn't want to browse it right away.

~~~
ohazi
That feature is called tab queue, and it can be disabled in settings.

~~~
thinkingemote
What is tab queue? Is that the new feature or is that the old feature that gp
was complaining about?

What are the new features?

~~~
Vinnl
It's the feature they were complaining about. It's useful if you're in some
other apps (e.g. a feed reader) from which you want to open several links in a
row, which you then work through in order afterwards within Firefox.

Disabling the tab queue means tabs get directly opened again.

------
jonny383
If Firefox pushes this before implementing support for extensions (namely
uBlock or other ad-blocking / privacy extensions) then Firefox is well and
truly toast on Android.

Correct me if I am wrong but the only reason non-tech people use Firefox on
Android is to block ads.

Perhaps this is a push from Mozilla to try and get some search revenue flowing
again?

~~~
s5ma6n
For me personally, uBlock (and other extensions) is the _only_ reason I am
using Firefox on Android. If this feature is removed, I will either go back to
Samsung Browser or check something else.

~~~
jshevek
If you are checking something else, I recommend Brave. I've switched from
Firefox to Brave and I am mostly satisfied.

~~~
useragent86
HN mods should investigate the systematic downvoting of pro-Brave comments. It
happens on every discussion of browsers.

~~~
thenewnewguy
I "systematically" downvote comments that exist solely to advertise an
alternative to the software being discussed. I would do the exact same thing
to "hey, use firefox" comments on a Brave-related article.

------
Zhyl
Quite a lot of negativity from HN so far, so I'll add some counter.

I've been using the Firefox preview since it was announced and overall have
found it to be a vast improvement on the previous incarnation. Tab management
is much more intuitive and easier on the thumbs, the URL bar being at the
bottom is jarring at first but soon becomes much easier to use, the
performance is similar to the Firefox Focus which I had previously switched to
from the main Firefox app.

Between this version of Firefox and the improvements to servo and webview
brought in with v57 on the desktop side, we've seen a massive leap in terms of
user experience across the Mozilla portfolio. Granted, addons and notably
adblock is an omission, but really when I reflect on what I felt was missing
from the Firefoxes of yore, I would always come back to 'look and feel' and
'performance' and I feel like these new releases go a long way to redressing
the balance with the competition in my books.

~~~
BlackLotus89
> Tab management is much more intuitive and easier on the thumbs

It's worse if you have many tabs and the compartmentalisation feature is not
flexible enough to be used with many tabs. Oh and the missing preview image is
annoying when I'm looking for a site, because it's easier to look for a tab by
looking at it then reading every title

> the URL bar being at the bottom is jarring at first but soon becomes much
> easier to use

yeah I love the idea and it kind of works. problem is that _it doesn't stay
down_ when I want to edit an url I first have to click on the bottom and then
at the top as well. I really often want to edit the url I have in my browser
and this is so annoying I can't even describe it.

> the performance is similar to the Firefox Focus which I had previously
> switched to from the main Firefox app.

No it probably isn't. For me firefox preview has the same slow downs as normal
firefox for android. A few seconds to open and then a few seconds to show my
tabs (oneplus 5 + ~150 tabs).

If I just wanted a fast browser with adblock I would use "Lightning"
(available in fdroid), but I want addons. Every other feature is available in
every other browser.

~~~
jaynetics
> when I want to edit an url I first have to click on the bottom and then at
> the top as well.

Another annoyance is how it never disappears. I get that it would be less
intuitive to have a bar at the bottom disappear when scrolling down a page and
reappear when scrolling up, but the way it is now, with the bar always there,
some websites are simply unusable in landscape mode on a regular phone.

All in all, a great and brave decision, but poorly executed.

~~~
craftinator
As this release is nightly, feedback like yours will go a long way to fix
these annoying UI issues

------
theon144
Wow, I am pretty surprised by this decision. I've been using Firefox Preview
for a while, and while I do enjoy the new approach, I still regularly
encounter bugs, including those that make me lose open tabs or other
regressions for which I need to keep Firefox ("regular"?) installed.

Not to mention the lack of addons (ad-blockers) and the fact that this
announcement is completely useless and void of information. ("Brand new
experience", whoa.)

What is happening, Mozilla?

~~~
vanderZwan
Note that this is about Firefox Nightly, not Firefox regular:

> A new browsing experience arrives in Firefox for Android _Nightly_

So related to this decision I would say: nothing special, as far as I can see.
They're just moving Firefox Preview to Firefox Unstable.

> _while I do enjoy the new approach (...) this announcement is completely
> useless and void of information. ( "Brand new experience", whoa.)_

You're mentioning this yourself: Firefox Preview _is_ a very new experience
compared to the current mainstream Firefox for Android browser. You and I may
be aware of Firefox Preview's existence, but for those out there who are not
this is not a post that is useless and void of information.

~~~
chrismorgan
But they’re not stopping there:

> As for next milestones, the brand new Firefox for Android will go into Beta
> in Spring 2020 and land in the main release later in the first half of this
> year.

What state it will all be in by then remains to be seen, of course.

(Aside: ugh, “Spring” as though everyone lived in temperate and subarctic
northern hemisphere. Most of the world doesn’t. This is a very
American/European way of expressing things.)

~~~
squiggleblaz
Imagine they forecast their release "During the harvest" or "when the
bushfires stop" or something. It's just weird.

------
chrismorgan
There is much concern about what’s happening with extensions, and I share it,
but I want to say this much: Fenix really is _way_ faster than Fennec. On my
low-end phone, I used Fennec so that I can use it as a minimal browser, with
fonts disabled, NoScript installed, uBlock Origin installed; also for
ideological reasons. I always knew that on pages where I needed to enable
scripting it was mostly still a _lot_ slower than Chrome, but I use it anyway.

I’ve just tried Fenix out now, and yeah, it’s going through stress tests like
loading Reddit’s web interface much, much faster (like, at least twice as fast
and five times as interactive).

I’ll wait for the extensions story to be polished off. There’s clear progress
and intent. I have confidence they’ll pull it off.

------
Reventlov
A few screenshots would be nice… Really, it's a "new browsing experience", and
what we have is just a wall of shitty corporate text saying how great it is.
Fuck that.

------
lol768
Given [https://github.com/mozilla-
mobile/fenix/issues/5315](https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/5315)
and [https://github.com/mozilla-
mobile/fenix/issues/5630](https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/5630)
are still open, does this represent a regression in supported functionality
for nightly users?

~~~
severine
Definitely. I don't understand how Mozilla doesn't understand that extensions,
particularly content blocking (and specifically Ublock Origin) are
definitional of what Firefox is and should be.

~~~
Koffiepoeder
No this is definitely not a regression. Firefox launched a new app called
"Firefox Preview Nightly", so as of right now both Nightly and Preview Nightly
exist side by side; regular nightly users are not impacted at this point in
time.

~~~
lol768
I don't understand why you've brought up what the current state of affairs is,
the article says:

> For current Nightly users, it’ll feel like a big exciting upgrade of their
> browsing experience once they update the app

Which sounds to me like Fennec is going away and the update will replace it
with Fenix.

>as of right now both Nightly and Preview Nightly exist side by side; regular
nightly users are not impacted at this point in time

Is anyone disputing this? What will happen when the "new experience" the
article talks about is launched?

~~~
dutchCourage
> What will happen when the "new experience" the article talks about is
> launched?

Can't people use the stable version then? I fail to see the issue here.

~~~
Macha
The issue is that their roadmap has the stable version being replaced
automatically in early 2020 with one that doesn't support extensions (full
support of which is late 2020), unless you pause updates on your mobile device
and had an unsecured browser.

So that means for at least most of 2020, I won't have the option for the
browser experience I like and will have to go use brave mobile or something.

As someone who wants to avoid a Chromium hegemony, this is pretty
disappointing. I would like to support Mozilla on mobile, but they'll leave me
no options to do so.

------
BlackLotus89
If the nightly beta is like firefox preview then it's too early for it.

1) addons don't work yet

2) sharing of media files doesn't work [https://github.com/mozilla-
mobile/fenix/issues/3621](https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/3621)

3) you can't add exceptions for ssl certificates [https://github.com/mozilla-
mobile/fenix/issues/1168](https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/1168)

And it's all in all more buggy then firefox for me....

I really welcome a new approach, but since in my extensive testing it
performed as bad as firefox and had more crashes it will more or less force me
either to stick to an older firefox release (mask updates) or use a different
browser (maybe install gecko as html framework and use lightning or something)

Edit: formatting and added conclusion

~~~
jaynetics
> And it's all in all more buggy

I've used it as main browser for a while and have the same impression. For
instance it simply crashes when logging in to certain websites, even after a
clean install. Probably some bug with cookies.

Edit: it also still uses more battery than Chrome for me. Apart of that it's a
top browser.

~~~
BlackLotus89
Yeah I got similar problems. I stopped using it a while and always come back
to check out if it got more stable or if my bugs where fixed/features
implemented and nothing really changed (I think one or two bugs I reported got
solved)

I don't really want one of the main applications I use on mobile to crash on
me

------
bugmen0t
This is in Nightly. I know people often times do _not_ expect breakage,
because Nightly has been pretty stable for a long time. But that's not a
guarantee.

Most people will be concerned about lacking Web Extensions support. It's
indeed not there yet and this is why this blog post is your heads-up to move
to a more stable channel.

Web Extensions are being worked on as you can see dependent bugs linked from
this meta issue in bugzilla:
[https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1582185](https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1582185)

And FYI, for me personally the built-in tracking protection has been a decent
replacement for my favorite add-ons, so I'm personally quite fine with this
change :-)

------
calpaterson
Lots of comments in this thread about why they have implemented this before
implementing addons. Based on Mozilla's public project board it looks like
they are well underway on implementing add-ons:

[https://github.com/orgs/mozilla-
mobile/projects/44](https://github.com/orgs/mozilla-mobile/projects/44)

Check the done column

~~~
pwg
The comments here re. "why before addons" is because the marketing-speak (tm)
blog post leaves everyone with the impression that this new version is just
about to replace the existing FF for Android that does support uBlockOrigin.

And as many comments here indicate (and I am with those who feel this way),
for a huge swath of FF for Android users, the ability to have uBlockOrigin is
_the_ critical reason why they have FF for Android installed in the first
place.

As in, if there is no uBlockOrigin, there is no remaining compelling reason to
run FF for Android. This is a failure of the mozilla marketing droids to
understand their customers.

~~~
calpaterson
> the ability to have uBlockOrigin is the critical reason why they have FF for
> Android

Me too

Agreed that the blog post is dross. I still hold out hope though that Mozilla
is not as dumb as their dumbest blogpost :)

------
SwampertX
For those complaining there is no adblocker, support for uBlock Origin is
already implemented upstream.
[https://twitter.com/FirefoxPreview/status/121564800555626496...](https://twitter.com/FirefoxPreview/status/1215648005556264962?s=20)

~~~
seren
What is "reference browser" in this context ? Is this the repo for Firefox
Preview/fenix ? Or an upstream version of Firefox preview ?

~~~
sciurus
[https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/reference-
browser](https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/reference-browser)

"A web browser reference implementation using Mozilla Android Components.

The Reference Browser is not a product intended to ship to end users. Instead
it is a Technology Preview for many new mobile components that multiple teams
at Mozilla are currently working on

It includes the Mozilla Web Platform via GeckoView, a new modern Firefox
Accounts and Cloud Sync implementation and the new "Glean" telemetry library.
All these components will be foundational for Mozilla's existing and upcoming
Android products.

The Reference Browser can also be a starting point for your own new browser-
like applications. It depends heavily on the Android Components project where
most of the actual implementation lives. That project also includes many
smaller sample applications."

~~~
seren
My question was more among the line :

What is the relation between

[https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/reference-
browser](https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/reference-browser)

and

[https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix](https://github.com/mozilla-
mobile/fenix)

That Readme does not really answer that question.

------
BadOakOx
I have Firefox Preview installed on my phone and it is set as my default
browser, but I still keep the original Firefox for Android, because:

\- Preview is missing support for Add-ons. This was a huge advantage of
Firefox for Android (for me this means, that I cannot use uBlock.. the built-
in ad blocker is good, but uBlock is better)

\- There are limited settings available in Preview. (e.g. what I am missing a
"download images only over wifi" option.)

~~~
squiggleblaz
I also have Firefox Preview installed on my phone. It's set as default but I
basically don't use it, because:

* Preview lacks support for ad blocking.

* For some reason, every time I open a link in Firefox Preview, it goes into "Private" mode and there's no option to stop that from happening. I think it used to ask me, and one time I said "Private" and ever since then it's been in private mode - it asked me every time till I said "Private" and thereafter it's never asked me again. This means I can only use Preview for the links that transiently get opened, because I can't even find the normal tabs without closing Private browsing.

~~~
input_sh
Settings - Default Launcher - there's a checkbox that you can uncheck to not
open random links in private tabs.

~~~
squiggleblaz
For clarity, that's Firefox Preview Settings not Android Settings. I would
probably appreciate being asked since I tend to forget to close things -
better to say "i want this tab only transiently, close it some time in the
somewhat distant future (but, preferably, keep both transient and permanent
tabs available)". Being asked to open it private is almost that.

Still leaves me with ad blocking which is probably the third most important
feature of a web browser after the ability to parse and render HTML.

~~~
Vinnl
I don't think that's intended behaviour by default: I've never set this up,
and links open in my regular session.

~~~
squiggleblaz
I've always assumed that, at some point, I must have fumbled and pressed "set
as default" one time when it asked me. I regularly drop my phone, and fumbles
that get me into settings I don't want happen occasionally. But it definitely
used to ask me every time.

------
anotheryou
Ugh so what is what and what's the news? There are (among others like ff klar)
for android:

\- firefox (firefox) > old

\- firefox for android beta (firefox_beta) > old

\- firefox nightly for developers (fennec_aurora)> old (maybe this one will
move to fenix and that's the news?)

\- firefox preview (fenix)> fenix rewrite

\- firefox preview nightly for developers (fenix.nightly) > fenix rewrite (app
also shows up as "firefox nightly", but with an outline logo)

I brackets is the end of the package name (org.mozilla...). They really should
get a naming convention on the road.

all mozilla apps here:
[https://play.google.com/store/apps/collection/cluster?clp=ig...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/collection/cluster?clp=igM4ChkKEzcwODMxODI2MzU5NzEyMzkyMDYQCBgDEhkKEzcwODMxODI2MzU5NzEyMzkyMDYQCBgDGAA%3D:S:ANO1ljKzdK8&gsr=CjuKAzgKGQoTNzA4MzE4MjYzNTk3MTIzOTIwNhAIGAMSGQoTNzA4MzE4MjYzNTk3MTIzOTIwNhAIGAMYAA%3D%3D:S:ANO1ljKOMZI)

Fenix is nice, but still lacking add-on support (which is a dealbreaker for
me)

------
Xelbair
Add-ons are the only reason i am using Firefox on android. It is slightly
slower, and more cumbersome than other alternatives - but add-ons(especially
ublock origin) make up for that heavily.

~~~
ntp85
> It is slightly slower, and more cumbersome than other alternatives

Except that Firefox Preview in my experience is not. It's even quicker than
Chrome or Bromite on my FP3.

------
yorwba
I use Firefox Preview as my main browser on Android, but I think pushing
adoption by deprecating the regular Firefox for Android is the wrong approach.
How are they going to compete with other browsers if they can't even get
existing Firefox users to switch to Preview?

In particular, Nightly users are already deliberately accepting bugginess to
help test new Firefox releases. If they're not using Preview, there's probably
a reason for that.

> For current Nightly users, it’ll feel like a big exciting upgrade of their
> browsing experience once they update the app

... is a very optimistic prediction. Add-on support is missing, there are
various strange bugs that are no deal-breakers for me personally, but still
annoying, and the URL bar at the bottom is confusing to get used to. Forcing
the transition before Preview is ready doesn't look like a smart move to me.

------
jeroenhd
Firefox preview is an interesting experiment with decent speed and a nice
layout.

However there are some big blockers for me before I can use this browser. One
is bypassing TLS errors (or preferably finally allowing me to use my own
certificate authority for some internal services). Right now the issue is on
hold and nobody from the Firefox team seems to. Be working on dealing with
certificates.

The other is the addon issue, but I have faith thst those will work once the
preview goes mainstream.

If Firefox goes live without those two points, I'm going over to brave. I like
Mozilla and I want a second browser engine for the web, but basic
functionality like this should not be foregone for the sake of "bringing new
experiences".

------
qalmakka
So... Should I keep using Firefox Preview or from now on Nightly is considered
more stable? I really don't get this.

------
geppetto
I've just gave it a try but nightly is still on the older version here. Anyway
Firefox Preview is my default browser with Firefox Beta as a backup on
Android. Preview is much faster but lacks extensions and many settings.
Moreover I'm not sold on the new UI: address bar at the bottom is fine as long
as it goes on top for some tasks, history is hard to find and I miss the
favorites sites start-page (have to create groups but it's not the same).

I use Firefox over Chrome because Google - you know... there's a submission a
day about that - and I trust Mozilla much more to be-not-evil and such. So
it's kind of a political-ethical thing. On PC performance is on par so it's
not a compromising choice. On Android Chrome still has an edge.

------
FeatureIncomple
I'm a happy user of Firefox Preview for a while not, and I just want to say to
all developers: THANK YOU!

It's pretty stable in my experience, and in fact much faster than the main
version.

Link for those who want to try it:
[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.mozilla.fe...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.mozilla.fenix)

------
Andrew_nenakhov
As much as I love Firefox, I have quit preview because of a bottom bar. (And
this is from someone who had always used bottom tabs in desktop Opera in 00s)

It is poorly executed and often obstructs input on websites.

------
SanchoPanda
Annoying for nightly users, but reasonable for Firefox team to clean up the
number of releases out.

Though the reason I used nightly was fewer rules around custom extensions, not
to be on the bleeding edge.

------
_def
The bottom placed nav bar is a major ux improvement, I love it!

------
monetus
"If you’re on an older version of Android (pre-5), you will won’t be able to
download Firefox for Android."

I wonder if it will or won't.

------
jtwigg
Firefox preview crashes on my 2019 Android phone when I attempt to upload a
file to the web. I hope this is no longer the case...

~~~
jamienicol
It would be great if you could file an issue at [https://github.com/mozilla-
mobile/fenix](https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix) if that still is the
case.

------
drewg123
Can somebody please remind me why the mobile firefox is stuck at version 68.x
whereas other platforms have moved on to 72?

~~~
RedComet
Because mobile Firefox is now ESR until the new mobile Firefox ("Fenix") is
ready.

------
antonioni
Uhh why does everything have to be an experience nowadays?

------
retpirato
maybe anybody who decides to try it can comment here what if anything is new?

------
severine
Doesn't work in my (widely used) Android version. I'm a long time Firefox user
and feel abandoned.

~~~
lorenzhs
"Requires Android 5.0 and up" according to the Play Store listing. Android 4.x
is from 2013 and had its last update in 2014. It hasn't received security
patches since October 2017. Why should Mozilla continue to support such an
ancient version?

~~~
ZoomZoomZoom
"2014 - Ancient version" Sorry, but this mindset doesn't make a lot of good
for the technology. It's not 90s anymore in terms of performance growth. The
reason a smartphone from 2014 is considered obsolete is not technical.

~~~
kuschku
If 2014 isn't an ancient android version and okay without updates, then why do
you need updates for Firefox? You can just as well keep using the 2014 version
of that, too.

~~~
jerrtik
Apples to oranges and no i won't be using Firefox when Chrome, Brave and Edge
still support the "ancient 2014 android version"

~~~
kuschku
Why is it apples and oranges?

What makes using a 6 year outdated OS so much different from using a 6 year
outdated browser? Both long stopped being supported by many websites and apps.

------
johnwish007
I use FireFox Preview on Android, I think its great compared to Chrome.

------
joseph2342
no ublock, firefox is dead

