
Scientists Release Genetically Modified Mosquitoes in High-Security Lab - gerbilly
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/02/20/693735499/scientists-release-controversial-genetically-modified-mosquitoes-in-high-securit
======
pmoriarty
I've often wondered why malaria eradication campaigns always seem to target
mosquitoes rather than the mosquito-borne parasites that actually cause the
disease.

Wouldn't it make sense to go after the root cause rather than merely its host?

~~~
daniel-cussen
The mosquito is made of more parts and they're more differentiated than a
virus, so there's more ways to make it fail.

EDIT/Errata: Malaria is not a virus.

~~~
biomcgary
Malaria is caused by a protist (a singled celled organism), not a virus. To
some extent, you are right about the mosquito being a bigger target. However,
the larger reason is that Plasmodium populations (the protist) are larger than
mosquito populations and, consequently, can evolve around human modifications
faster.

------
smallgovt
> While genetically female, the transformed insects have mouths that resemble
> male mosquito mouths. That means they can't bite and so can't spread the
> malaria parasite. In addition, the insects' reproductive organs are
> deformed, which means they can't lay eggs.

I'm confused. If these mutated insects are unable to reproduce, how do they
spread their mutation to the rest of the population?

~~~
pmoriarty
Maybe the idea is that the wild male mosquitoes will mate with these sterile,
genetically-modified females instead of with some of the wild female
mosquitoes, and so the total wild mosquito population will be reduced.

~~~
tgb
The article doesn't really explain, but there's more to it than that. My guess
is that the male offspring are still fertile, but carry the gene drive and so
spread the infertile-female gene to all their offspring. Eventually, the
entire population is rendered either male or infertile females and dies.

~~~
macawfish
*it's also possible that at the end the males will start hybridizing with females from other species.

------
dbg31415
"While genetically female, the transformed insects have mouths that resemble
male mosquito mouths. That means they can't bite and so can't spread the
malaria parasite. In addition, the insects' reproductive organs are deformed,
which means they can't lay eggs."

This is awesome. It's one of those things that makes you feel like you live in
the future. Preventing the spread of Malaria, Zika, West Nile, a bunch of
other things... and saving our dogs from heart worms! Not to mention avoiding
all the cancer and neurological illnesses we've had to endure thanks to
chemicals in repellants we had to use...

I'm sure there are consequences for killing off all the mosquitoes, and we'll
have to deal with those... but I for one can't wait to deal with those
problems instead of mosquitoes.

~~~
saagarjha
> I'm sure there are consequences for killing off all the mosquitoes, and
> we'll have to deal with those... but I for one can't wait to deal with those
> problems instead of mosquitoes.

I’m not sure we know the scale of these problems. Historically, messing with
the ecological food web like this has often caused more harm than good, so I
think it’s worth it to be more careful than this.

~~~
thret
Aren't species already going extinct every day?

~~~
saagarjha
Yes, but as far as I'm aware that's an undesirable outcome?

------
bitL
Article in 5 years: "A record drop in bird, bat, dragonfly, frog, damselfly,
spider and turtle populations measured across all areas with former abundance
of mosquitoes. More victims of climate change/pollution/glyphosate! Somebody
do something, quickly, please!"

These kinds of experiments of course never have any side-effects...

------
iandanforth
Ok here's the prompt: A eugenics tool this powerful will eventually be misused
in humans.

Thoughts?

~~~
yingw787
I think that's the premise of a video game already:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Clancy%27s_The_Division](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Clancy%27s_The_Division)

~~~
mrmyers
As long as we're discussing video games...

It has been my private head canon for a number of years that the Gerudo race
in the Legend of Zelda are the result of an attempted gene drive to
exterminate Hylians. The fact that their offspring are (almost) exclusively
female suggests it, and attaching the modification to a (literal) fitness
increase would be a reasonable way to try to help it achieve fixation sooner.

Well, looks like I'm going to have the Gerudo Desert theme stuck in my head
for the rest of the night.

------
vinniejames
"While genetically female, the transformed insects have mouths that resemble
male mosquito mouths. That means they can't bite and so can't spread the
malaria parasite. In addition, the insects' reproductive organs are deformed,
which means they can't lay eggs."

Why not focus on narrowing down the gene edit so only the biting ability is
destroyed, allowing the females to reproduce?

Seems like a safer option in the long run

~~~
dasv
Female mosquitoes need blood to obtain protein for the eggs. If they can't
bite, they won't be able to reproduce either.

------
pvaldes
> As more and more female mosquitoes inherit two copies of the modification,
> more and more become sterile.

So our plan is trusting in the reproduction of an sterile animal that is
unable to reproduce but must multiply somehow (by budding?) to replace the
wild population that 1) do not have any problem to lay eggs or mate, 2) are
much more numerous and 3) can suck blood that is needed to bost the egg
production.

It seems that this plan has some loopholes...

------
somishere
Is this supposed to be groundbreaking? Seems very similar to methods that have
already been successfully trialed in the wild in both the US and Australia:
[https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-10/zika-and-dengue-
sp...](https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-10/zika-and-dengue-spreading-
mosquito-largely-wiped-out-in-trial/9962294)

~~~
avip
These are not GM-ed, they are sterilized using bacteria infection.

------
DyslexicAtheist
are mosquitoes a "key species"?

this is a must watch for anyone wondering if there might be "side-effects"
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzDISuJdfZk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzDISuJdfZk)

~~~
zeckalpha
There are many species of mosquito, of which, only some (<1%) transmit
malaria.

In theory, the other mosquito species will adapt to fill the niches that the
controlled species once occupied.

------
techrich
We should not be messing with this, we are not smart enough to see what will
happen in the future.

~~~
speedplane
We release barely studied chemicals and materials into the environment all the
time. This is concerning, but it's not fundamentally different from what we've
been doing for decades.

~~~
macawfish
Decades are an unbelievably short timescale and we're already seeing mass
extinction and population losses across the board for many different species
from all walks of life.

How much of it is related to stuff we've done at large scale before
understanding the consequences?

------
danschumann
I can't help but imagine the opening scene of every zombie movie ever. Let's
make sure this tech is highly guarded.

~~~
macawfish
Crispr is not highly guarded, nor have we learned our lesson about how
dangerous it is.

~~~
Valmar
The thing that worries me the most about these technologies is when we make
changes with them, those changes seem fine in the lab, and then when those
changes spread in an ecosystem for long enough, suddenly, problems start
popping up due to those changes.

By then, it's far too late to undo those changes. The genetic pollution
remains forever.

It is therefore far better to have never done any genetic modification at all,
because we simply don't understand how one change interacts with everything
else.

Nature has done so much better than we have ~ therefore, because we don't
understand nature's decision-making process, and never have, and most probably
never will, we should never interfere with tinkering with something extremely
and profoundly complicated like DNA.

Selective breeding is superior to humans tinkering with the genome directly.

~~~
speedplane
> The thing that worries me the most about these technologies is when we make
> changes with them, those changes seem fine in the lab, and then when those
> changes spread in an ecosystem for long enough, suddenly, problems start
> popping up due to those changes.

I agree with your concern, but I don't see this technology as fundamentally
different from humans have been doing for hundreds of years. We've already
released so many chemicals and materials into the environment that have had
many harmful and irreversible effects on the environment. Releasing a
genetically modified mosquito does raise concerns, but it's not too different
from putting some new chemical into the environment, which we do all the time.

------
grawprog
As much as I dislike mosquitoes and know they're a health hazard, this is a
horrible idea. A whole bunch of insectivores rely on mosquitoes as a primary
food source. A single bat can eat it's own body weight in mosquitoes in one
night. They really do play an important part in most ecosystems. There are
some fairly serious negative consequences to this that really seem to be being
downplayed or ignored in the name of public safety.

~~~
bryanlarsen
They're only targeting a single species of mosquito. Other species will
quickly move in to fill the same niche so the impact should be minimal. Sure
it's risky, but the reward is significant.

~~~
macawfish
Can you show me some evidence that the gene drive affecting that species won't
affect other species?

From what I've read, hybridization does occur between mosquito species.

~~~
stubish
The math does not work out. Hybridization happens rarely. To affect another
species, hybridization would need to happen on a large enough scale that the
hybrid population increases, despite the fact that the hybrid species becomes
sterile after a few generations. The hybrid species would also need to out
compete the other species, again, before the hybrid species dies out because
of the genetic modifications.

~~~
macawfish
I don't know what math you're referring to, but the possibility of adaptive
introgression strikes me to be non-negligible, especially given that it has
specifically been observed in mosuitoes under selective pressure from
pesticides...

Hybridization rates are not static. What's more, hybrid mosquitoes would in no
way be limited to mating with other hybrid mosquitoes.

Consider that this gene drive diminishes the female mosquito's ability to feed
on blood. I'd expect it be possible that this would cause modified female
mosquitoes to be maladapted in other ways. If modified female mosquitoes were
to experience significant additional stress, the adult sex ratio in modified
mosquitoes could shift dramatically toward an overbalance of modified males.

If this were to happen, don't you see how it could increase pressure on males
to outbreed? E.g. if a large proportion of their natural mates were either
dead or malnourished? Similarly, can you see how the same kind of situation
might emerge for the hybrids, increasing the likelihood of backcrossing?

A gene drive that specifically disrupts the females' ability to survive seems
like it would increase the likelihood of introgression, potentially by a lot.

This whole situation just strikes me as highly unpredictable, risky and poorly
understood.

~~~
johnr2
> I don't know what math you're referring to...

Thank you for the rational comment. I found some of your other posts in this
discussion to be emotional enough to make me not take them seriously (although
I agree with the need for being cautious with GM). A post like the one above
carries a lot more weight than "makes me sick" type comments. It's an emotive
subject for sure, but straying too much from a rational tone can be
counterproductive.

