
Ask HN: I've applied at Toptal and failed the Codility tests - grover_hartmann
I&#x27;ve made the 3 tests pass but scored 0 at them, I don&#x27;t have experience solving those types of algorithms as I&#x27;ve never had to deal with them before.<p>They said I can apply in one month or two again, what would you guys do? Any advice?<p>Really frustrating.
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jyu
Whelp guess your skills suck.

Or maybe you're being forced to run an arbitrary maze of someone else's design
and creation. Some mazes are easy and familiar to previous work you've done;
some are challenging; others are designed purposely with no way out.

Given the bad rep that toptal has on HN, I'd just move on.*

* [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10107448](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10107448)

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grover_hartmann
I'm pretty sure I can study those algorithms for a month and get a higher
score at Codility.

But is it worth it?

How do you suggest I improve my skills?

Isn't there another place where I can get work without having to go through
those pointless exercises first?

Isn't my time better spent working on Free and Open Source Software than
dealing with these stupid tests?

I've been working as a freelancer for a few years now and I generally get work
done, so this has been humiliating.

~~~
jyu
You're only as good as your BATNA (best alternative to negotiated agreement).

If you don't have a better choice, then go through Codility. I think you
probably have better options. Looking through your post history, why you have
7 years in Rails, then jumped to do PHP work? That's weird. Also remote work
as a contractor or consultant is pretty available too. If you're not easily
finding jobs right now, you're probably doing it wrong.

You should ask yourself, your coworkers and other peers how to improve your
skills, not some internet stranger.

We all get rejections from time to time. Just remember times when you got
useful things done, and move onto the next interview.

~~~
grover_hartmann
Why is that weird?

The thing is, I've been working remotely for 7 years with Rails, but lately
it's been difficult to get remote work so I had to take the local offerings
and that means going back to PHP as most companies in my area use PHP/Java.

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mattm
What do you mean you made them pass but you failed? Do you mean that you coded
them for the base cases but forgot about the edge cases? If that's the case,
maybe you should spend some time on trying to think through the edge cases in
your daily work to understand them better.

It's tough to know what you're asking. Are you asking about how do I improve
at algorithms or should I apply again?

Don't let it be "humiliating". A guy I've worked with and know he is good at
algorithms and is one of the best developers I've worked with also failed the
tests. There will be false positives and the time limit doesn't help as it
puts unneeded pressure on you.

I did pass the tests and work through Toptal. For my experience, it has been a
good one and worth it. I don't know your location but you say it's been
difficult to get remote work lately so it sounds like Toptal would be a good
source of leads for you.

Also, work on your attitude. You say "pointless exercises" and "stupid tests".
If you think that way, you're definitely not going to do your best on them.
Just think of them as something interesting that would be a good challenge.
It's only 90 minutes IIRC so if you do retake it it's not like you're out that
much time.

Also consider, Toptal tries to filter for just senior engineers. Is your
skillset really that of a senior developer? It may be. I'm just putting this
out there for something to think about.

Hopefully you use this as an experience to grow and become a better developer
instead of just dismissing it.

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bjourne
What is frustrating? You can just study the algorithms you are unfamiliar with
and then do a better result the next time you take the test? You use the same
methodology any time you are given a test that you fail that you wish to pass.

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wesbos
Market yourself outside of a placement agency. It sounds like you are a good
developer, so with a little relationship building and self promotion you
should be able to get some well paying work!

