
SteamOS: It's here - xPaw
http://steamdb.info/blog/35/
======
jamra
I have a huge problem with Steam in general. It's nothing against Valve and
nothing against the games on Steam store, but hear me out.

Lets say you buy a game on the Steam store. Now lets say that game is so bug-
ridden that you can't play it. It's so bad that you can't even run the game.
You check online and it's such a big problem that the CTO has publicly
apologized. You contact Steam support to ask for a refund. They tell you to
forget it, so you contact the publisher. You explain that you have liked their
games forever but this game is not playable. You want your money back. The
publisher will tell you that you need to get a refund from the retailer you
purchased the game from. It's out of their control because they don't have
your money.

You contact Steam again, they tell you that they will issue no refund. You
threaten to file a charge back from your credit card company. Steam says that
they will disable further purchases from the Steam Store if you do so. They
actually state that they will not let you purchase any more games from them if
you protect yourself as any consumer should be allowed to.

Somehow, I just can't imagine doing business with them anymore.

~~~
pyrocat
Uh, that's never happened to me, nor anyone I know. And Steam Quality Control
is good enough that games that bug-ridden will very very rarely make it
through.

~~~
HoochTHX
Godus has those very issues.

~~~
lotu
As other's have pointed out that Godus is an alpha game much of it has not
been written yet. It is probably over a year from being a good game. The issue
is this is not communicated well enough to people purchasing, as illustrated
by the above comment. If Hooch expected Godus to be a bug ridden when
purchasing their wouldn't be any surprise when he discover it was bug ridden.
One idea I could see would be for Steam to require developers to list a sample
of issues the game currently has in the promotional video. Introversion does
this well with their game Prison Architect
[http://youtu.be/KDDzSOS0vzc?t=1m6s](http://youtu.be/KDDzSOS0vzc?t=1m6s) . I
see this serving a similar purpose to the Risks & Challenges section on
Kickstarter, warning the customer that they are not buying a game with the
typical protections and warranties they are used to.

~~~
HoochTHX
I expect to be able to actually run the game instead of it crashing as soon as
I double click on the icon. I'd probably have no issue with it, if I could
actually get it to run. Then there is the whole no refund issue with Steam.

------
kylemaxwell
I'd rather just go to the official site, myself.

[http://store.steampowered.com/steamos/buildyourown](http://store.steampowered.com/steamos/buildyourown)

~~~
STRiDEX
Anyone know why the hard drive requirements are so large? Also they say 500gb
and 1TB in different locations

"The image provided here requires at least a 1TB disk."

~~~
747facts
The 1TB one is due to the way Clonezilla images work, it expects a drive with
at least 1TB capacity to mirror the image back.

------
huskyr
A link explaining what SteamOS actually is might come in handy:

[http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamOS/](http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamOS/)

------
cabbeer
SteamOS FAQ

    
    
        Please use http://repo.steampowered.com[2] for downloading
    
        repo.steampowered.com goes through the CDN and will spread the load. The steamstatic link people are passing around is not behind a CDN.
    
        http://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse/discussions/1/648814395787298909/[3]
    

For those using the unofficial torrent to download, can verify it with
official MD5 or SHA512.

------
stusmall
I'm pretty excited to see, at least from the steam FAQ, this is going to be a
pretty straight forward layer on top of Debian with some back ported changes.
I've seen so many crazy rumors about completely custom audio stacks,
replacements for X and who knows what else. This is assuming the vague mention
of an "updated graphics stack" doesn't mean anything crazy...

------
Simucal
Does anyone have a torrent link? The installer link is down for me.

Edit: Here is an unnoficial torrent magnet link:
[http://mgnet.me/foUDd](http://mgnet.me/foUDd)

~~~
voltagex_
[http://repo.steampowered.com/download/SteamOSInstaller.zip](http://repo.steampowered.com/download/SteamOSInstaller.zip)
is the CDN link

------
leoedin
Is this going to result in better video drivers for Linux feeding back into
the open source community? That would be nice!

~~~
mey
[http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/faster-
zombies/](http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/faster-zombies/)

They have been working with various GPU vendors on better Linux drivers for at
least a year if not more.

Valve also recently joined the Linux Foundation.

It appears they are working towards making the software in the ecosystem
better.

~~~
drill_sarge
It does not state on what drivers/other stuff they are contributing. It sounds
they work together with the vendors to improve the proprietary drivers, I
think. That would be zero benefit for GNU/Linux environment. Also current
state of Steam OS is just a standard Debian with proprietary components added.
And those components are what really matters in this field. I do not expect
that Valve make their Steam Client open source, but at least not relying
solely on closed stuff for the relevant parts. In the current state this
doesn't improve anything or makes somehow the "ecosystem" better.

~~~
clarry
There was some recent quote about Gabe saying something along the lines of
"open source is the future of gaming". I wouldn't be one bit surprised if that
were bull though. In fact a less literal but more likely interpretation of
that is "in the future we'll exploit (more) open source for our own benefit."

------
Xeoncross
Running on Debian 7.1 Wheezy, nice. Now I don't have to change operating
systems.

------
VexXtreme
Can anyone please explain to me how this is supposed to work with the majority
of games out there that happen to be only for Windows? Short of a handful of
indie games, what exactly are you supposed to play with this?

Many major AAA titles have performance issues on Windows these days, and
that's with nVidia and AMD doing their best to optimize their drivers, so
please don't try to convince me that you can run the latest Assassin's Creed
through Wine or something.

~~~
iagooar
It's a project that aims for the future, not the past. Or can you play PS3
games on a PS4?

~~~
VexXtreme
Ok, so it's a concept for a gaming OS that might become viable in the future,
provided that developers decide to build for it.

I still feel like there's a ton of misadvertising and misleading in their ads,
making it look like it's a full blown OS. Hence my question.

~~~
vertex-four
It's a console OS. It's based on Linux, and can run any game that is available
on Steam for Linux, as well as any other Linux game or application if you
flick a checkbox. Frankly, it's also in a better place than the two
traditional consoles that have just been released, as far as game choice goes.
There are, having a quick look, 684 games available through Steam for Linux.

SteamOS is being advertised as part of Valve's SteamMachines initiative,
whereby hardware manufacturers will build PC-based console devices running
SteamOS.

Where are they making it look like it's a desktop OS?

------
newman314
What I'm interested in is the streaming portion. Imagine a setup where a
VMware server with a gaming VM streaming to a RaspberryPi in the family room
or Mac.

~~~
sillysaurus2
How much bandwidth would that require at 1080p with compression? Well, if we
assume 16:1 compression ratio, that's 1920x1080x3/(16x1024) KB per frame,
times 24 fps = 9.11MB per second. So a 73Mbit wifi connection would be
required. Can the RPi push that?

30fps would require a 90MBit link.

~~~
sjwright
Or perhaps we could assume a 32:1 compression ratio on 720p content -- that's
about 10 megabits per second. I don't know if the Pi could even do that with
sufficiently low latency (the server's specs will probably be more important
anyway) but if we're going to give a flea computer a task, at least make it
vaguely feasible.

And when did wifi suddenly become a requirement?

And where did you get 24 fps for gaming?

~~~
sillysaurus2
24fps is movie framerates. It's the lowest fps which humans find tolerable.

16:1 compression ratio is based on DXT compression, which looks like ass, but
is able to be done in realtime if the server is beefy enough. 8:1 would be
better.

32:1 would look so terrible that I'm not sure anyone would be willing to sit
through it.

Wifi is a requirement to make it go mainstream. Most people aren't willing to
run physical cable through their living spaces, either due to lack of patience
or equipment.

~~~
Dylan16807
DXT is extremely lightweight compression designed to be decompressed in
parallel during the rendering process. 10mbps is plenty if you're using a
video codec, and the Pi has hardware H.264 support.

~~~
nitrogen
H.264 imposes a few seconds of lag to get to that sort of compression ratio
with acceptable quality. Good for movies, not so good for games.

~~~
Dylan16807
Are you sure about that? As I understand it you usually don't want to have
more than 4-5 B-frames in a row. And if you use baseline profile you eliminate
B-frames and can cut the latency to be less than a frame.

See also:
[http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1273759](http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1273759)
[http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/archives/249](http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/archives/249)

------
bliker
Can somebody post screenshots if they got it running? I am mostly interested
in design. Their release announcements were amazing so I am curious what they
pulled off.

~~~
keypusher
It basically looks like BigPicture.

------
cshimmin
Is this some kind of leak? steamdb.info is evidently not affiliated with Valve
in any way...

~~~
nemof
nope this is entirely legit. Valve confirmed that when they shipped the 300
steam boxes today to beta testers they'd also push live Steam OS Beta. Check
the github and steamstatic.com files.

~~~
evjan
This doesn't mean that downloads from steamdb.info or steamstatic.com are
legit. Tread carefully, I'll wait until there's a link from an official site.

~~~
voltagex_
steamstatic.com is where the deb packages for the Steam Linux client are
hosted.

------
sillysaurus2
Does anyone know if this can be installed in VirtualBox? I'd like to try it,
but I don't feel like setting up a new computer for it or dual booting.

~~~
voltagex_
I suspect so, it's based on Debian 7.1.

The main problem is they seem to have put it on a single server instead of the
Steam CDN and now no one's able to download it

~~~
sillysaurus2
If you use wget, the download'll resume automatically whenever it chokes:

    
    
      wget http://repo.steamstatic.com/download/SteamOSInstaller.zip
    

But it's choking every percent for me, so I doubt it'll finish.

~~~
maxerickson
wget -c will look for a partial file (so when it bombs out you can just start
it again). Sometimes it makes sense to force a file name, that one looks like
it will work fine.

------
lists
Did GNOME just make it onto a lot of desktops all of a sudden?

~~~
venomsnake
300 to be precise.

------
em3rgent0rdr
installed SteamOS on my labtop. Essentially just Debian 7 Gnome (with special
steam repository) plus Steam client and all necessary drivers (ie Nvidia)
automatically installed. Easy automatic install...just extract SteamOS.zip to
usb, boot usb with UEFI enabled, and will install to first disk (just make
sure your first disk is unused, as the auto install will not prompt the user
for anything). Went ahead and enabled all the debian repos (so can install any
debian program, so can function as a desktop workstation or server). So now it
is basically like I've had in the past with Debian 7 plus steam client. And of
course only the steam linux games work, although you're one "sudo apt-get
install wine" instruction away from running most windows programs...

------
killercup
Download seems to be awfully slow. A torrent for the installer would be nice.

~~~
killercup

      magnet:?xt=urn:btih:1e4dae83371ba704d5d89e1828068ef0c4151e32&dn=SteamOSInstaller.zip&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.openbittorrent.com%3A80%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.publicbt.com%3A80%2Fannounce

~~~
mcgwiz
Whoa, this comment ruins the page layout. If you can still edit it, can you
throw two spaces in front of it? (That'll render it in a fixed-width <code>
block.)

------
xur17
Mirrors:

[http://instockalerts.net/files/SteamOSInstaller.zip](http://instockalerts.net/files/SteamOSInstaller.zip)

[http://firefly.epicconstructions.com/files/SteamOSInstaller....](http://firefly.epicconstructions.com/files/SteamOSInstaller.zip)

------
mike-cardwell
I was hoping that it would have a "streaming only" mode, with much lower
hardware requirements. I have a decent spec gaming machine in the study, and a
low spec HTPC in the living room that I was hoping I could just stick Steam OS
on and stream from the study machine.

------
jebblue
>> There is a desktop environment. Gnome.

I'm in! I'll give it a try in a VM for a while. That's how I ended up moving
home machines from Windows to Ubuntu years ago.

Thanks Debian, Gnome and Valve!

EDIT: DISREGARD. "Keep in mind that we are not affiliated with Valve!"

I guess I skipped past that at the top.

------
codygman
Hopefully they make the backported eglibc .deb packages available. I'm betting
they'll have an updated version of the graphics driver and possibly mesa too.

On Debian this has been a headache for me, so I'm hoping they'll make these
things available :)

------
qwerty_asdf
They should include optical disk instructions (ISO-to-bootable-DVD), given
that USB sticks are such an obvious security hazard.

(...I realize it's trivial to create an ISO image for DVD burning, but gee
it'd be nice if that was a readility available option)

~~~
e12e
> given that USB sticks are such an obvious security hazard

What? What's less secure about booting some random code you've downloaded from
the internet from an usb stick vs booting it from a cd you've burned at home?

~~~
qwerty_asdf
If you burn a disk, it stays put. The disk will never be changed. Every time
you use that burnt DVD, you get the same results, unless it gets scratched.

On the other hand, let's say you have a USB stick.

1\. Download installer package.

2\. Create bootable USB stick.

    
    
      ... maybe leave the stick plugged in, and surf the internet.
    

3\. You boot, successfully install a clean system, then:

    
    
      ...leave the stick plugged in, and surf the internet.
    
      or 
    
      ...leave the stick unattended, and in the physical presence of an enemy.
    

4\. Fall victim to malware which goes undetected:

    
    
      ...specially crafted malware corrupts the USB stick, and includes a malicious payload as part of the *NEXT* install.
    
      or
    
      ...someone builds an evil corrupted debian package and slips it into the installer, so that it piggybacks into the *NEXT* install.
    

5\. Now, you have a corrupted installer spreading its hazards to every
installation thereafter. You have no idea whether the installer's integrity
has been compromised, because the USB stick remains writable.

With a DVD ISO, there is only one chance to attack, and it's during the
download. This is easily mitigated if Valve tells us the exact size in bytes
and what SHA-256 hash of the downloaded file is (over an SSL connection), so
that we can verify the integrity of the download by matching hashes. If that
matches, and we burn the disk, we know the disk remains secure and tamper
resistant (more so than a USB stick), so long as it is not damaged or
scratched or anything.

------
cabbeer

      magnet:?xt=urn:btih:1e4dae83371ba704d5d89e1828068ef0c4151e32&dn=SteamOSInstaller.zip&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.openbittorrent.com%3A80%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.publicbt.com%3A80%2Fannounce

~~~
cespare
This single comment really messes up the whole HN comments page by making it
really wide. Someone should fix the CSS.

(By the way, you can fix your comment to not do that by putting it in a
literal block by prefixing with 2+ spaces.)

------
SmileyKeith
After install it didn't boot correctly on my Macbook Pro 7,1. Booted to grub
but then black screen. Also note (as now stated in the official documentation)
it wipes your hard drive for the initial install.

------
lelf
[http://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse/discussions/1...](http://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse/discussions/1/648814395741989999/)

------
Arelius
> Custom graphics compositor designed to provide a seamless transition between
> Steam, its games and the SteamOS system overlay

That is the exciting part to me. Anyone have any details? I'm about to go
digging.

------
fzltrp
Is there a jigdo link? If they plan to do point releases they should go with
that system, it saves quite a lot of bandwidth.

------
drill_sarge
Debian with EULA? Hell no...

------
WalterSear
So now I need to set up bootcamp >four< different OSs?

/sigh

~~~
lotu
If you have linux installed already you can just install Steam an it will
work.

------
gionn
2014, the year of Linux on desktop! (meh)

~~~
lucb1e
> (meh)

I don't get what you mean by that last part. Is it supposed to make your "2014
year of the gnu/linux desktop" remark sarcastic?

Sorry English is not my first language.

------
if_by_whisky
Any word on controllers yet?

------
tadfisher
I am drunk and this is good

------
bluekitten
Do they allow us to install games outside of Steam or does everything have to
go through the Steam store and their 30% cut?

~~~
quarterto
God forbid a distribution platform be compensated! How _dare_ they ask for
money!

~~~
winslow
I don't believe that's the point _she_ is making. Obviously the distributor
should be compensated. I believe _her_ point is will 3rd parties that are NOT
green lit on steam still be downloadable similar to Android's install from
unknown sources.

My initial thought would be they allow 3rd party / not affiliated with steam.
They seem pretty open with everything about SteamOS and I would think it would
only hurt their chances of adoption if they were to lock it down. Even if they
do lock that down I'm sure someone would easily find a work around as it is
Linux after all.

~~~
bluekitten
It's a she, but I agree with the rest of what you said :)

~~~
winslow
Oops my apologies. Fixed :)

------
tiglionabbit
It's based on Linux? What about all the games that require DirectX?

~~~
moocowduckquack
presumably for many of them you can have a software wrapper that translates
directx to opengl calls

~~~
anon4
You'd have to be literally drunk to think that's a good idea.

~~~
fmap
That's actually what the people at Valve did (GDC 2013):
[https://developer.nvidia.com/sites/default/files/akamai/game...](https://developer.nvidia.com/sites/default/files/akamai/gamedev/docs/Porting%20Source%20to%20Linux.pdf)

Performance improved as a result. The number they give is ~20%. The other nice
thing was that you could use D3D10+ on Windows XP...

