

50,000 dutch nurses use NFC phones daily - barttenbrinke
http://movesonrails.com/journal/2011/8/30/50000-dutch-nurses-use-nfc-phones-daily.html

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rickmb
It's kind of frightening to think of Nedap operating in the healthcare
industry. This is the same company responsible for the insecure and
unverifiable voting machines that were eventually banned in at least the
Netherlands, Ireland and Germany. I really hope they're not processing any
privacy sensitive information.

~~~
joelhaasnoot
Election systems is just one of their business units though:
<http://www.nedap.com/index.php?cat_id=31>

While it's the same company isn't it a bit of a stretch? It's like saying
Microsoft is awful because they make an awful search engine Bing.

~~~
micheljansen
Indeed, it's a weird way to pose this. As I recall, it was never the company
or their specific voting machines that was the subject of discussion, but
rather the idea of using closed (and thus unverifiable) voting machines
produced by a commercial company for general elections. Stating that this
makes the company evil or unreliable seems a bit dishonest to me.

Full disclosure: I am a former employee (I worked on the product mentioned in
this article), but I joined the company much after the voting machines were in
the news, so what I know is pretty much what was in the media at the time.

~~~
joelhaasnoot
Being able to use a radio to know who voted what because of electronic
interference emitted by a voting machine is not just a "closed voting machine
by a commercial company" problem, but one of pure negligence, ignorance and
poor workmanship. If you design a voting machine, you design and test for
those requirements.

~~~
micheljansen
Wasn't that another product? <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Eck_phreaking>
These hacks are pretty clever.

Either way, you have a point. If anything, the efforts of hackers have upped
the requirements of anyone who still has the guts to produce voting machines
(and created awareness of the increased costs with their customers) and this
is a good thing.

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chrisbennet
OK, I'll ask; What does "NFC" stand for?

~~~
dminor
Near Field Communications -
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_field_communication>

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gregory80
So it's a digital timecard system where the patient is required to keep a
special ID?

Certainly sees neat, but why not just base the whole app off GPS data and skip
the cards for 'billing' completely?

~~~
barttenbrinke
Primarily because tracking people 24/7 through GPS in their phone is a privacy
no-no. Next tot that: GPS is really unreliable in buildings and oldfolks tend
to live in appartment blocks. Also hight (floor) is an issue as well as
battery life.

~~~
gregory80
Why would nurses, who have been given the phones in the first place (and do
the billing) not be able to run 24/7 GPS on their own phones? Also, it
wouldn't even have to be 24/7, if they work from 9-5 then its only during
those hours.

Also, why would this be a no-no? How do you think map applications work? And
'local recommendations' apps?

EDIT: Add link to Apple / Google tracking GPS on phones
[http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/google-apple-track-users-
lo...](http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/google-apple-track-users-location-
information/story?id=13436330)

~~~
barttenbrinke
Currently the battery of the phone lasts for at least a week. With GPS this
would be reduced to a day or less. Also location services are opt in. You
would not be able to opt-out of time tracking through GPS, which makes a big
difference. The article you linked actually to explains the dangers of
location tracking in great detail. You should read it :)

~~~
gregory80
I have read it and linked to it because it is actually happening. You
suggested its a 'no-no', which is definitely not the case.

I think you may believe I want the patient to carry the phone, but I am
suggesting the nurse.

My father worked in Public health for 40 years, two decades ago we explored
the idea of cards such as this for patients, but came to the conclusion they
fell short for a variety of reasons, including patients losing the devices,
patients transferring to different clinics and not having their original card
etc etc. As is the case with current medical records, there is a stronger
guarantee the doctors will be able to review existing case history is the data
and files are stored with the hospital or care provider, not receiver.

Finally, I am pretty sure the nurse can charge a phone daily.

