
Snowden asylum still under review, stays in airport for now - message
http://rt.com/news/snowden-entry-airport-asylum-521/
======
scrrr
I wish him all the best. He's done many countries a great service. He inspired
the search for truth and he made us realise that our politicians (and
technology providers) are a bunch of disgusting LIARS.

I hope that he will be able to have a good life in Russia, in peace and
security. And that his deed will inspire future whistleblowers.

~~~
mikemoka
Granting asylum to Snowden will just influence relations between US and
Russia,and is not done to be coherent with previous standings of the country
on the topic of human rights,almost always different.

We have to be careful not to associate concepts like "freedom of speech" and
"example of democracy" with countries like Russia, given the actual situation
the people there live under I am not sure we can say Russia holds human rights
in the highest regard in my opinion.

~~~
alexakarpov
Can't agree more (Russian here). In Russia it's all about putting up a show of
anti-americanism, because that's what the voters like (the one thing that
brings back memories of relative security of late Soviet days). Think Osama
bin Laden granting asylum to Snowden in some remote Taliban camp.

~~~
1gor

      Think Osama bin Laden granting asylum to Snowden in some remote Taliban camp.
    

Strange, I am Russian and have been living in Russia for 5 years now (and
before that for 20 years in the UK and Holland). And I cannot agree with your
Taliban analogy even remotely. Actually, life in Russia today in some ways
feels more free than in Europe. For example you don't need to be politically
correct (self-censoring) when expressing your private or political views. And
one can still (for now) smoke in pubs here ;)

~~~
ambientwhsiper
Right. In Russia you can pretty much insult anyone as much as you like. Just
hope they don't have a traumatic handgun on them.

Give me a break. Nobody moves back to Russia, because they are free to smoke
at the pubs there.

I was also born in Russia and 3 years ago, I spent a year there. It is just as
shit country as it has always been. Nothing changed. It's got some new paint
on the facade.

~~~
menato
Appreciation of reality in Russia is seriously depend on who you are. If you
feel bad inside, it rather caused by your own personality.

~~~
SimHacker
I hear there are no homosexuals in Russia. They are all very manly and
masculine. Even the women. So there is no reason for a Russian man to be
homosexual.

------
pvnick
It seems he accepted Putin's terms to not release anymore information. I
wonder if that means no more information coming out, period, or that since
most/all of the information is now with third parties that it's their
responsibility. I doubt Putin likes being disrespected with loopholes and
technicalities, but I more-so doubt that Snowden would halt the revelations
altogether for the sake of his own safety. I suspect this was discussed and
that Russian officials agreed to the continued release of what is no longer
under Snowden's control.

Does anybody have any more information on that?

~~~
rantanplan
I think that Putin simply cares about _appearing_ cooperative with his
American "friends", so as to avoid any repercussions. Also there is definitely
some play on words here, since we know that Snowden cannot have any control
about the information he has already given to various individuals. So yes,
_he_ probably won't release any more info _personally_.

~~~
vog
But imagine he violates the requiements and releases more information. Would
that actually be a problem for him?

Putin already said that he won't send him to a country where he may be
sentenced to death. So even in that case, he probably won't be sent to the US
but to some other country than grants asylum to him.

~~~
rantanplan
I can't imagine why he would do something like that, in the open. After all he
needs any friends he can get! But even if he was to break his promise of not
releasing any more info, it would make more sense if he did it "under the
radar". I think he is quite capable of that. Or maybe, he could do it while
the Russians are looking the other way :)

------
tomelders
Well I think this is more to do with Russia thumbing it's nose at the US
rather than protecting an individual from tyranny. But fair play to Snowden,
it's good news for him. But If I were Snowden, I'd be quietly sneaking out of
Russia very soon lest the political winds change and he suddenly finds he's a
very valuable pawn in a very dangerous game that he can't win.

~~~
alan_cx
Probably. But can any one name one trust-able perfect country that would give
a Snowden type asylum purely on principle, rather than for political reasons?

I'll be honest, Im struggling to think of one.

~~~
dotcoma
Germany should, as explained here:
[http://ind.pn/12ix0rD](http://ind.pn/12ix0rD)

But unfortunately it won't :-/

~~~
qznc
He applied to Germany and was rejected due to "missing requirements". No
official statement was given what requirements exactly were missing. Probably,
because you have to be on german ground (or very near) to apply. The
application itself is declared confidential due to privacy reasons.

Essentially, our government does not want Snowden to enter Germany.

~~~
mseebach
So, it's obvious that it's not politically convenient for Germany (or most
other western countries) to grant Snowden asylum, even if they wanted to.

But legally, he doesn't have a very clear-cut case: The 1951 United Nations
Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees which is the legal framework for
asylum, defines the criteria as having a well-founded fear of persecution
because of one's race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership
of a particular social group.

The only category that might fit is "political opinion", but holding a certain
political opinion is not a license to commit a crime (which, unambiguously,
Snowden is guilty of), especially when laws against the exact same activity is
on the books in the countries he's applying to.

Has it not been for the much too heavy-handed treatment of Manning, he
couldn't even claim fear of prosecution: getting a fair trial in a court of
law isn't prosecution.

~~~
SimHacker
Maybe he has a prosecution complex? Are you sure you don't mean prostitution?
Procrastination? Prostate exam?

Getting a fair trial in court most certainly involves prosecution:

prosecution n. 1) in criminal law, the government attorney charging and trying
the case against a person accused of a crime. 2) a common term for the
government's side in a criminal case, as in "the prosecution will present five
witnesses" or "the prosecution rests" (completed its case). (See: prosecute,
prosecutor)

------
jeena
Good for Snowden that he is not homosexual or leaked "Gay propaganda" so he
won't end up in jail in russia ...
[http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/22/opinion/russias-anti-
gay-c...](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/22/opinion/russias-anti-gay-
crackdown.html)

~~~
ForrestN
Yeah. If I were Snowden I wouldn't trust this evil government in the least.
Hopefully he's still looking for somewhere else to go.

------
jitbit
I'm Russian. This is done only to annoy the US. Russian gov-t has nothing to
do with freedom of speech etc. It's just to tease the White House.

~~~
andreypopp
How the fact that you are Russian makes you know why it was done?

~~~
mpyne
Are you saying he's have the same level of insight if he was from
Saskatchewan, Canada?

~~~
andreypopp
Be it from Canada his insights would different due to different media coverage
but "insightness" measurement would be the same cause levels of media
bullshitting both in Canada and in Russia are same

------
anuraj
Snowden has completed his historic duty - now he can fade into the annals of
history as a man who stood for something.

------
Justsignedup
in a backwards twist of fate... Russia is protecting people from the United
states for freedom of speech.

------
twentyfourseven
This news made my day. The safety of Snowden has been on my mind for weeks.
Hopefully he'll make it all the way to sunny Bolivia.

~~~
pjmlp
It won't matter, now he will have to keep watching his back every second.

~~~
rocky1138
In an ironic twist of fate, living like Josh Harris, with cameras live
streaming him 24/7 from now on might keep him safe.

------
denzil_correa
For now, Snowden stays in the airport says his lawyer. However, considering
the tone of the statement it looks like he will soon receive one.

    
    
        cnnbrk: Lawyer: Snowden hasn't yet received document that 
        would allow him outside of Moscow airport. 
    

[https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/360047355329921025](https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/360047355329921025)

------
brianbreslin
So a few questions here: 1\. Will he get KGB (or whatever the current
equivalent is in Russia) protection? 2\. Is this allowing him to leave just
being done to make it easier for the US spooks to snatch him up? 3\. Where
does he go next? And how does he get there?

~~~
kwal0203
I don't think He'll be getting any FSB (new KGB) protection. They most likely
control him now.

~~~
tootie
I think I'd rather do 2 years at Club Fed in the US than be under FSB control
in Russia. I mean, Putin straight kills journalists.

~~~
falk
"I mean, Putin straight kills journalists."

So does the United States of America.

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0)

The United States government wants to make an example out of Snowden. There's
no way he would serve just two years in prison.

~~~
twoodfin
Would it stretch your moral intellect too far to identify a key distinction
there? Namely, intent matters: The U.S., as far as anyone has demonstrated,
does not set out to kill journalists because what they write is inconvenient.

~~~
falk
The United States government traffics drugs such as heroin [1], has started
wars under false pretenses to profit multi-national corporations [2] [3],
backs death squads in Indonesia [4], tried to convince Martin Luther King Jr.
to commit suicide [5], has conducted covert operations to dismantle and
replace government structures across the world [6], has conducted experiments
involving drugs like LSD on unwilling participants [7], is known to kidnap and
torture people [8] [9], intercepts phone calls in the United States and
collects every piece of information they can disregarding the constitution
[10] [11] [12], performs drone strikes that kill innocent civilians [13], and
kills American citizens without due process [14] [15]. Do you honestly believe
they haven't killed any vocal opponents including journalists? If so, that is
massively dangerous thinking.

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Politics_of_Heroin_in_South...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Politics_of_Heroin_in_Southeast_Asia)

[2]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War)

[3]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_war](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_war)

[4]
[http://www.democracynow.org/2013/7/19/the_act_of_killing_new...](http://www.democracynow.org/2013/7/19/the_act_of_killing_new_film)

[5] [http://news.firedoglake.com/2013/01/21/the-fbi-wrote-a-
lette...](http://news.firedoglake.com/2013/01/21/the-fbi-wrote-a-letter-to-
martin-luther-king-telling-him-to-commit-suicide/)

[6]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_re...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions)

[7]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra)

[8]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_and_the_United_States](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_and_the_United_States)

[9] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_el-
Masri](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_el-Masri)

[10]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A)

[11]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON)

[12] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM)

[13] [http://dirtywars.org](http://dirtywars.org)

[14] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-
Awlaki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki)

[15] [http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/23/us/us-acknowledges-
killing...](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/23/us/us-acknowledges-
killing-4-americans-in-drone-strikes.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0)

Edit: Saw another comment and did some more digging. Found a great article
which I'll quote some of. You can find a link to it below.

"On April 8, 2003, during the US-led invasion of Iraq, Al Jazeera
correspondent Tareq Ayoub was killed when a US warplane bombed Al Jazeera's
headquarters in Baghdad."

"Disturbingly, more journalists were murdered in targeted killings in Iraq
than died in combat-related circumstances, according to the group Committee to
Protect Journalists."

""Between 2003 and 2010 more than 30 Iraqi journalists were detained and held
in prisons in Iraq by the Americans," she explained. "All of these journalists
were arbitrarily arrested by the Americans, just as they continue to be
arrested by the Iraqi government today.""

[http://www.aljazeera.com/humanrights/2013/04/201348120278145...](http://www.aljazeera.com/humanrights/2013/04/2013481202781452.html)

~~~
twoodfin
_Do you honestly believe they haven 't killed any vocal opponents including
journalists?_

I certainly won't believe it until you give me a name of a journalist who was
killed because the U.S. government didn't like his or her reporting. A giant
wall of links to such 'evidence' as the Wikipedia page on the Iraq war doesn't
impress me, nor does your later link, from which you decided to pull a quote
about "targeted killings" without bothering to figure out that the people
doing the "targeting" weren't Americans.

~~~
igravious
The name you seem to have trouble pronouncing is: Tareq Ayoub

Do you want me to write it again? Tareq Ayoub

And to stall your obvious response. No, he was not targeted directly but when
you bomb a news organization's headquarters one of the things that is going to
turn up in the rubble is dead journalists. What's that you say? They didn't
mean to target a news organization? Wooopsies. I must have missed the
heartfelt apology.

Why don't you try reading that page minus your reality distortion filter
goggles? Here, I'll post the link again.
[http://www.aljazeera.com/humanrights/2013/04/201348120278145...](http://www.aljazeera.com/humanrights/2013/04/2013481202781452.html)
This time, though, why don't you try to read what it says rather than
inventing what it says.

How about the _first_ sentence, "On April 8, 2003, during the US-led invasion
of Iraq, Al Jazeera correspondent Tareq Ayoub was killed when a US warplane
bombed Al Jazeera's headquarters in Baghdad."

So what you're trying to say is that a US warplane is not an American
warplane? Have I got that right? Does your head not get a bit sore what with
all the cognitive dissonance going on up in there?

How about another couple of quotes? "CPJ research shows that 'at least 150
journalists and 54 media support workers were killed in Iraq from the US-led
invasion in March 2003 to the declared end of the war in December 2011.'"

"'The media were not welcome by the US military,' Soazig Dollet, who runs the
Middle East and North Africa desk of Reporters Without Borders told Al
Jazeera. 'That is really obvious.'"

You may not want to believe it but it's true nonetheless.

------
ramanan
The situation is still evolving. The article has been updated since the
initial HN posting and the title now reads 'Snowden asylum still under review,
stays in airport for now - lawyer'.

------
gexla
I wonder how much pay he would get as a sys admin in Russia. He might want to
leave that bit about stealing secrets from his employer's client and leaking
them to the world off his resume.

------
k-mcgrady
"Snowden's temporary asylum request is still undecided and he is to remain in
Sheremetyevo airport's transit zone for now, Reuters is reporting, citing the
whistleblower's lawyer."

Source: [http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/24/edward-
snowden-m...](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/24/edward-snowden-
moscow-airport-live)

------
shreeshga
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SORM](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SORM):
Snowden's next target.

~~~
guard-of-terra
What is there to blow whistle about? Everybody knows about it.

------
canadiancreed
Guess relations between Russia and the US aren't as important after all.

Always found it odd (possibly ironic?) that he left to countries infamous for
not being well known for their love of free speech. Then again as one poster
here put it, where else would he go that isn't as restrictive and doesn't have
an extradition treaty with the U.S.?

Wonder if this will inspire whistle blowers in Russia now?

~~~
belorn
The irony is that Russians seeking asylum in the US has been a stereotypic
event, to the point where it was made into a musical called Chess.

> Wonder if this will inspire whistle blowers in Russia now?

And what kind of secrets, unknown to the Russian public are you thinking
about? Whistleblowing is about informing the citizen about secret actions made
by the state (or rich company) that shows corruption or lies. If the action is
not secret, then there is nothing to blow about. If the state do not deny
spying or corruption, then what can the whistleblower say? "Oooo, look! What
the government says is correct, and they are indeed doing what they say they
are" aren't exactly whistleblowing. News maybe, but not whistleblowing. The
government have to first claim to be the land of the free before someone can
contradict them on it.

------
wellboy
Does that mean he accepted the demands of Russia of not being able to disclose
any further information anymore?

~~~
brown9-2
This presumes that the Russian government actually cares about that supposed
demand.

~~~
wellboy
Oh, I meant that Snowden can't disclose any further information about the NSA,
which was given as a condition by Russia if Snowden wants Russian asylum.

------
k-mcgrady
Live blog over here: [http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/24/edward-
snowden-m...](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/24/edward-snowden-
moscow-airport-live)

------
ck2
Fortunate for him he is not gay (as far as we know) as that's illegal in
Russia and would prevent entry?

In any case I hope he stays safe and I thank him for his sacrifice.

~~~
danabramov
Being gay isn't illegal in Russia, “gay propaganda” is. This doesn't make the
law less absurd.

------
ryguytilidie
I'm curious how Snowden has been living in this airport. Is he literally
sleeping in the terminal or is there an airport hotel he is staying in?

~~~
TheLegace
Last I read he's staying in a fairly decent hotel. Not sure how he's paying
for it(maybe donations, maybe he saved his money).

------
pdknsk
I wonder if his next target is Wladiwostok. It seems less complicated to get
to Latin America from there, if he still wants to.

~~~
WildUtah
There are no direct flights. You have to connect through Tokyo or Shanghai or
the USA.

~~~
pdknsk
Well, you can easily make it a direct flight. I have no idea how much hiring a
pilot and a plane capable of crossing the pacific non-stop costs, but it's
probably well within his (or his supporters) means.

By complicated I mainly meant the countries he does not have to fly over.

~~~
WildUtah
Even a 777 or 787 won't fly direct from VVO, around Japan, around US airspace,
and around Mexican airspace and reach even Nicaragua safely. Much less will it
make Bolivia or Venezuela, if it were even possible to cross foreign airspace
to reach those countries.

------
dpatac
I feel like the title of this is a lie as the article states something
different. I hate being lied to and manipulated.

------
petercooper
There's an inch thick of delicious, buttery irony spread over a slice of
Onion-tasting bread here. Asylum granted by a state that once sent 14 million
people, primarily those who didn't agree with the authorities, into forced
labor camps with millions meeting their deaths from malnutrition, exposure,
and summary executions.. and which is still attempting to outlaw
homosexuality.

 _Out of the frying pan, into the fire!_

~~~
baby
Just want to point out that what you're talking about was past, and a
different government. It's like saying America is the country where black
people were slaves when talking about America's decisions in recent events.

~~~
SimHacker
Just want to point out that Russia just passed a law banning "gay propaganda"
\-- their term for saying anything true or positive about homosexuality. The
CURRENT government. Signed by Putin. Passed unanimously by the parliament. Did
you ignore that fact because you support that law and don't consider it a
violation of human rights?

[http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/11/russia-law-
banni...](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/11/russia-law-banning-gay-
propaganda)

And black people are certainly still widely discriminated against and treated
unfairly in the United States. Have you ever heard of Trayvon Martin? The
incarceration rates of blacks versus whites? The Republican Party? Its leader,
Rush Limbaugh? Voter suppression? The Southern Strategy? I could go on and on.
Do you believe that racism is no longer an issue in the United States, because
your glorious leader Rush Limbaugh told you so?

------
mikegioia
I can honestly say I didn't expect this to happen. Hopefully Snowden can
rebuild his life in Russia.

------
caycep
For some reason the theme music from "Hunt for Red October" keeps playing in
my head...

------
falk
I wonder why Glenn Greenwald or the Guardian hasn't written anything about
this yet?

~~~
JosephRedfern
They have now. [http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/24/edward-
snowden-m...](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/24/edward-snowden-
moscow-airport-spy)

~~~
acqq
Quoting Reuters. As far as I understand, Greenwald wouldn't make an aricle
that would just involve tracking Snowden's steps like it would of some
celebrity. It's exactly the distraction of talking about the messenger instead
of the message.

------
baby
Just a stupid question but where did he sleep if he had to stay at the
airport?

~~~
rada
Sheremetyevo airport’s transit zone encompasses three terminals and includes a
capsule hotel and a wing of the Novotel.

------
jensC
I simply wish him good luck!

------
dschiptsov
...after writing down and signing the "pokazaniya" on everything he knew.))

------
SurfScore
The Tom Hanks movie "The Terminal" seems rather relevant here.

------
hannibal5
I just want to point out that if Snowden would have been spying for Russia or
China, he would not have any these problems. Countries don't return people who
spy for them.

His knowledge is very likely still valuable and he could turn into traitor any
day and Russia would take good care of him. He would get money, pension,
citizenship and nice Datcha to live in. He is this predicament because he has
not given up his principles.

~~~
teleological
The notion that defectors are lavishly rewarded -- a notion that Snowden
encouraged in his comment about palaces and petting a phoenix -- is at odds
with the historical record. Consider Kim Philby. After the act of defection
has been milked for propaganda, the defector is dispatched to guarded
obscurity.

It's hard to know what's really happening between Snowden and his hosts. The
notion that Russia's hands are legally tied and that Snowden is just hanging
out at the airport as a logistically challenged but ultimately free agent is
absurd, but it's understandable why Russia is staging that diplomatic farce.

As for Snowden's role, if he has valuable knowledge and he has not "given up
his principles" \-- so much the worse for him. He'll get a chance to
reconsider the boast that he "cannot be coerced into revealing that
information, even under torture." It could have already happened, with the bit
about resisting torture ghost-written by amused interrogators.

~~~
hannibal5
Kim Philby spied for political reasons, not for money as were most spies who
fled to USSR. They all got KGB pensions and medals.

Snowden has been accompanied by Sarah Harrison of WikiLeaks. He is not alone
and isolated with Russians.

------
notdrunkatall
Be careful out there...

