
80-year Harvard study has been showing how to live a healthy and happy life - t23
http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2017/04/over-nearly-80-years-harvard-study-has-been-showing-how-to-live-a-healthy-and-happy-life/
======
rubicon33
What I take from this article is that social interaction is extremely
important to ones health, and it's something that we largely taken for
granted. In the age of computers and secluded work environments, I think we
need to be aware of the effect that even casual interaction has on our mental
and physical health. I have some personal/anecdotal experience which back this
research up and affirms my belief that communication and interaction with
others is vital.

I've been working from home for a number of years. During this time I've on
average spoken with and interacted with 1 person every day - my wife.

I occasionally go out, occasionally see family members, but the majority of my
day-to-day work is quiet, alone, working at a computer.

\- I have been more sick in recent years than ever before in my life. This is
even compared to previously living in a major city and taking public
transportation.

\- I have been experiencing sharp mental decline especially in the last year.
Solving complex problems is much more challenging.

\- My memory is suffering. Even my wife has begun to notice, I forget little
things and have developed an "aloof professor" disposition that wasn't natural
to me.

\- I now find social interaction more difficult. I'm more akward, and find
myself over-thinking previously natural interactions.

\- Lastly ... I'm far more depressed. I just don't enjoy much these days. I
wake up, work, don't talk to many people.

The TLDR here is that I urge everyone to tend to their social garden. I let
mine decay for too long, and I'm paying the price now. I am beginning the
process of restoring connections, and getting out more, and I'm already
noticing an improved mood.

Oh and I should mention - I'm naturally an introvert so this reclusive
lifestyle was all too comfortable for me.

~~~
biofox
You just described my life with uncanny accuracy.

I have suspected for some time that my problems were due to social isolation,
but I have been too apathetic to make an effort to do anything. You've just
given me the motivation to change that. Thank you!

~~~
sillysaurus3
I wish there were a Tinder for friends. It's a shame no one would use it.

~~~
beefield
At some point I thought there should be an app for lonely people to get know
each other. but I am a bit afraid that being lonely is much more difficult to
admit to even oneself than being single, so I started thinking that the app
should not be about loneliness, but about things to do or help needed in
simple things. So I guess it should be something remotely resembling twitter
that is geographically filterable. so that you could "tweet" things like

"We need one more person to our game evening, anyone nearby? #Games"

"I am driving to Los Angeles. Ayone need a ride? #Rides"

"Need more potatoes for our #food. Bring some and come to eat"

Obviously you would also need to figure out a way to keep creeps civilized and
a currency/counter to keep the small asshole minority just taking advantage of
others help.

~~~
graphitezepp
At the IT company I used to work at, our CTO constantly raged over people
asking for technical solutions for their own management problems, which is a
pattern I have internalized. Sometimes things are social issues that need to
be solved socially. I don't think there is going to be a systematic way to
keep creeps out and prevent the asshole minority, people are just going to
have work things out as a society.

~~~
beefield
I think it is quite difficult to let complete strangers to your home without
_any_ help from technology. I don't think this app would need any rocket
science, but I would guess that a simple way to verify who you are dealing
with and make that public ("John Doe is joining our board game night today")
and some kind of scoring system ("John Doe has wanted help x times and given
help y times and on average people do not seem to think he is an asshole")

But I think the crucial point is that if you want to fight loneliness, it is
difficult to do that if the lonely one is made to think that he is now getting
something because he is lonely. That will instead make him feel worse. It
would be much better to tell to the lonely one that hey, just you, I would
need _your_ help. (Complete amateur psychologist writing here)

~~~
graphitezepp
Perhaps having mandatory face shots being part of the app (you can at least
know what age demographic the strangers are in) as well as a blacklist
(preferably hard to get on to avoid abuse). I would want to avoid a scoring
system, that slips into "good person" quantification territory. For the second
point I agree with your concept, but I don't have an idea for the
implementation. Random matching?

~~~
beefield
Maybe some combination of real name, photo, social media accounts and trusted
networking (these are the people that I have verified to being what they say
they are etc.)

Scoring has its challenges, but somehow I think there should be a way to flag
people that do not behave decently. Maybe just two grade scoring with wording
that makes it clear that the lower grade is applicable only if the person has
e.g. threatened with violence or completely disregarded what was agreed (being
a bit late or politely cancelling in the last minute is not sufficient)

And for the second part, I just thought that it would be enough to get a
notification on your phone that someone nearby could use some help that you
can give. Not probably a perfect solution that saves every lonely soul, but if
even a few, that would not be bad. And of course, maybe also some of the not
so lonely ones get to receive or give some help.

------
fernly
I find this perfectly credible because almost exactly the same conclusions
were stated by Putnam in the classic _Bowling Alone_ [1]. A couple of pull-
quotes from that,

> Dozens of painstaking studies... have established beyond reasonable doubt
> that ... [t]he more integrated we are with our community, the less likely we
> are to experience colds, heart attacks, strokes, cancer, depression and
> premature death of all sorts...

> ... the _positive_ contributions to health made by social integration and
> social support rival in strength the _detrimental_ contributions of ... risk
> factors like ... smoking, obesity, elevated blood pressure, and physical
> inactivity.

> ...as a rough rule of thumb, if you belong to no groups but decide to join
> one, you cut your risk of dying over the next year _in half_.

Putnam was surveying a large number of studies, not just the Harvard one.

[1] Putnam, Robert D, Bowling Alone: The Collapse and Revival of American
Community; [https://www.amazon.com/Bowling-Alone-Collapse-American-
Commu...](https://www.amazon.com/Bowling-Alone-Collapse-American-
Community/dp/0743203046/)

------
indescions_2017
I've got a simple hack I employ when in a new city. All through my twenties, I
moved basically every year or two. Most of the time I had a network of family
or associates to drawn upon before arrival. But often, I'd find myself a
complete stranger, knowing not a single soul.

What I'd do is this: find a local diner, not a touristy place, but a real
local institution and landmark. And then eat dinner there every single night
at the same time. If constrained budget wise, look for the early bird dinner
specials. Become a regular. Trade gossip with the wait-staff, complement the
cooks on their sublime creations, chat up the little old ladies, engage the
workmen about their craft. After a few weeks you'll find yourself invited to
birthday parties and have the opportunity to give back your own time and
energy, shovelling a driveway or helping out at a food drive.

A summer time variant: farmers markets. They typically have the same vendors
every week and will remember you if you purchase a quart of organic honey and
ask with genuine interest questions about their practise. Offer to get them
started on Facebook / Shopify. Pretty soon, word spreads and you're no longer
a stranger in town!

~~~
Broken_Hippo
This also works in places like gas stations (try to visit the same ones),
grocery stores if you go 1+ times a week, and sometimes coffee shops and fast
food joints, especially in smaller towns.

It takes a little longer, but a popular walking path can grant good results as
well. Basically anything routine where you are likely to run into the same
folks over and over.

~~~
ghthor
This is also the trick to building healthy online communities, running into
the same people over and over again. It's the difference between a toxic
flamewar culture and a positive supportive culture.

------
glbrew
I don't know the nuances of this study but I am curious about the role of
personality. I have lived much of my life with large groups of caring family
and friends and I was miserable. I have lived parts of my life as relatively
isolated and reclusive and was enormously happy. Have any related studies
accounted for personality? 5,10,20% of the population might be the exact
opposite?

~~~
scottLobster
Seems like you fit the study's findings quite well actually:

"The surprising finding is that our relationships _and how happy we are in our
relationships_ has a powerful influence on our health."

You can be surrounded by "caring" family and friends that you don't have a lot
in common with, and that can be miserable. Getting determined but bad/outdated
advice from parents is a classic and widespread example. It's not that the
parents don't want the best for their now-adult kid, it's just that they're
simply ignorant of the best way forward. But they're convinced that they're
right and that creates friction despite good intentions.

~~~
throwawayfeel
I have an anecdote of this from literally yesterday(and it's personal enough
to be a throwaway).

Status from my 20s to early 30s: at home, occasional small gigs, not much
steady work or career prospects. I got badgered with "we worry about you" or
"maybe you should get a second job" all the time.

Status as of yesterday when I reported that I had successfully speculated
several hundred thousand dollars through multi-year cryptocurrency trades:
Wow, that's great, you should diversify your wealth and marry someone now. The
dinner table conversation was relaxed for once.

Which is still them imposing a narrative on me, but it's one I feel a lot more
able to negotiate than the money question, where any plan or project I
announced was simply met with further doubt, dismay or disinterest. They
didn't want to engage with the prospects or pay attention to anything but
results and it was leaving me constantly gloomy and self-doubting and
frustrated with them.

And I don't think it's exactly that the money itself is making me happy, since
I'm pretty spartan in my lifestyle - I'll go out for coffee drinks most days
and that's my biggest and most common indulgence, but I don't spend on big
luxuries or travel more than once every year or two. It's the side effect of
the story changing to "I'm not totally dependent anymore, I'm free to do what
I want right now" and subsequently changing their outlook.

~~~
coldtea
> _Status as of yesterday when I reported that I had successfully speculated
> several hundred thousand dollars through multi-year cryptocurrency trades:
> Wow, that 's great, you should diversify your wealth and marry someone now.
> The dinner table conversation was relaxed for once._

Don't know about marriage, but definitely diversify your wealth...

~~~
nojvek
A loving and caring wife definitely makes you happy. You also need return the
favor. I was always afraid of Marriage but pulled the trigger one day. There's
some truth to the advice.

------
smallgovt
The article seems to argue that healthy relationships CAUSE physical health.

How do you actually prove that the relationship between the two attributes is
causal versus correlated?

For example, one could conclude, instead, that being in good physical health
is the cause of successful relationships.

~~~
mobilefriendly
This may be particularly true in romantic relationships.

~~~
yosito
It may also be particularly false in romantic relationships. Have you met my
ex?

~~~
dsfyu404ed
When you buy a Kia and it breaks it's "unreliable".

When you buy a Ferrari and it breaks it's "temperamental" or "quirky".

A Toyota may cost a pretty penny and be more reliable than the Kia but the
Ferrari looks much better in your garage and is much more fun to take for a
spin.

------
aschearer
If you like this you may also enjoy "The Village Effect" by Susan Pinker[1].
In the book the author documents various ways in which social connectedness
impacts our well being.

As this article and book say "loneliness kills", but what does that mean for
those of us who want to live long and healthy lives? Do we need to start
scheduling social time alongside gym time? Will a hug a day keep the doctor
away? Should we join organized religions or get married strictly for the
health benefits?

[1]: [https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22933077-the-village-
eff...](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22933077-the-village-effect)

~~~
judah
>> "Should we join organized religions or get married strictly for the health
benefits?"

As a married religious person who was once single and not so religious, I can
attest that faith and marriage have generally made me happier.

Given the choice again, I'd utilize both regardless of health benefits. I do
wonder if that general happiness factor contributes to better health in
indirect ways.

~~~
ams6110
Of course the risk of marriage is that if the marriage falls apart it can
cause devastating unhappiness for a long time, that you may never really
recover from.

------
polpenn
Note that what they reportedly found is a stronger positive correlation
between relationships and happiness than between money and fame and happiness
(just based on the article):

"Close relationships, more than money or fame, are what keep people happy
throughout their lives, the study revealed"

So going after fame and money doesn't necessarily lead you to become unhappy
(if we interpret the results as causal). Quality personal relationships just
makes you even happier.

Also, I'm curious to what extent cultivating meaningful relationship serves as
a coping mechanism for people with little money or social status
(alternatively, focusing on making money and acquiring high social status to
compensate for poor personal relationship development skills). My impression,
based on my observations from people I've met in developing countries, is that
low income / social status people tend to have richer and active communities
and personal relationships. High status individuals tend to be lonelier. But
this could just be confirmation bias.

------
stewbrew
The sad thing about this is, nothing of this is news. I did some health
research in the 1990s and read tons of studies telling you the same things.
One of the best predictors for subjective well-being was whether people had 3+
really close friends.

IMHO there is something wrong with this kind of research that rehashes known
facts but doesn't really go any deeper than what was already known before. My
gratulations to the researchers involved for getting the funding for such a
long running study.

~~~
graphitezepp
Nothing new under the sun, most things our modern work in social sciences show
was figured out by some ancient philosopher or religious leader or another it
seems to me.

------
rdudekul
In Summary:

Our relationships and how happy we are in our relationships has a powerful
influence on our health.

Close relationships, more than money or fame, are what keep people happy
throughout their lives, the study revealed.

Loneliness kills. It’s as powerful as smoking or alcoholism.

Good relationships don’t just protect our bodies; they protect our brains.

The key to healthy aging is relationships...

------
faragon
Bertrand Russell already put most of that in a book in 1930: "The Conquest of
Happiness" [1]

[1] Some quotes:
[https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Conquest_of_Happiness](https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Conquest_of_Happiness)

~~~
dolzenko
Was always a fan of his essay "In Praise of Idleness" [1] but never bothered
to check if he had more to say on the subject of happiness in general,
interesting read, thank you!

[1] [http://www.zpub.com/notes/idle.html](http://www.zpub.com/notes/idle.html)

------
numbsafari
A suggestion: take up a social hobby.

I taught social dance for a number of years. This is a great avenue for
expanding your social interactions, getting healthy, building self
awareness... blah blah blah. There's a great Argentine Tango scene in SF, just
sayin, folks.

There's also joining a hiking group or a walking group. Great to get out, get
active, and get social.

Or engage with an after school program, or mentorship organization.

You have, like, so many options.

------
Lxr
There's no mention of how they sort correlation from causation. Does being
physically healthy perhaps also lead to happier relationships?

~~~
dajohnson89
Besides health, might financial well-being also lead to healthier/happier
relationships? If you're poor and have to work two full-time jobs, the
precious free time you do have may not be easily allocated to socializing.
And, many social hobbies require capital.

------
elyrly
Please take the time to actually read the book, this article doesn't do it
justice.

[https://www.amazon.com/Triumphs-Experience-Harvard-Grant-
Stu...](https://www.amazon.com/Triumphs-Experience-Harvard-Grant-
Study/dp/0674503813)

------
danr4
While it does shed a light on the "quest for meaning", this study is not
useful as long as we lack the understanding of the role of personality. I
think a good analogy is researchers finding that a certain disease kills, but
not knowing how do you contract that disease and what you can do to cure it.
It might help you identify your situation, but not how to change it.

------
Dowwie
"Taking care of your body is important, but tending to your relationships is a
form of self-care too. That, I think, is the revelation.”

------
Aron
Let's all have a drink to that! Cheers!

~~~
narrator
Actually, according to the study avoiding alcohol abuse was a key factor in
long life and happiness.

Too many people see the point of life as getting past all the crap they have
to do to survive so they can get drunk on the weekend.

------
zeteo
This reads like someone consciously decided "Hey, let's build the ultimate
poster boy for bad statistical studies!".

1\. _Sample bias_ : "Why just study WEIRD [1] subjects? Let's do male Harvard
graduates!" (Yes, half the study included inner city men, and one eighth of
the duration featured women. It's still super heavily biased towards Harvard
men.)

2\. _Correlation is not causation_ : "Hmm, health is correlated with
relationship satisfaction. Could there be a common cause for both? Or maybe
people like to hang out with healthier peers? No, the clear conclusion is that
working on your relationships magically makes you healthier."

3\. _Inconsistent data collection_ : "Those '30s nincompoops were measuring
skulls and handwriting. We'll stop doing that and take MRIs instead. But it's
still the same study!"

[1]
[https://schott.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/07/14/weird/](https://schott.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/07/14/weird/)

~~~
dang
This sort of snarky comment that dispenses with the life work of others by
means of internet clichés is the sort of thing for which pg coined the term
"middlebrow dismissal". Perhaps you really do know better than specialists who
worked in a field for decades, but if so, you're doing your superior knowledge
an injustice by presenting it so basely. We're sincerely hoping to do better
than that in this community, and would appreciate it if you'd join us in the
effort.

More at
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14818590](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14818590).

~~~
d3js
The parent comment raises some good points. The sample size here is too small
and the article's conclusion has loads of confirmation bias, also displayed in
majority of the comments here.

~~~
ghthor
The best argument in science is repeating the study is it not?

------
mcableton
This is a great article. I agree with the comments here that says working at
home can really squish your mood. It makes me wonder about social security. I
remember some comments here about if they got rid of it, grandma would have to
move in. Well, according to this article, that might be the best thing for
grandma! I work from home but have been staying with my in laws since we had a
baby. It has been great for my mental health.

------
Strategizer
Assuming that good relationships imply good aging, I'd like to know how do
they work. How much would differ a long relationship from 2 middle
relationships to 7 short relationships?

If there's already any study about it, please share it with me, I'd love to
read it!

------
LoSboccacc
Don't worry too much this study is bullshit

Step 1 - be an adult white male graduated at the beginning of an unprecedented
and unique economic boom

Step 2 - graduate out of the most prominent college of the period

Step 3 - watch your asset grow themselves

Step 4 - enjoy the life without never have to worry about job security,
housing, spending power

Yeah no shit sherlock. I guess being upper middle class does wonder to one
life. Meanwhile we have to contend with constant worry about our future, our
kids future and one misstep in our career path can and will landslide into a
life of regrets.

And this study just say 'socialize' and everything else will magically go
away.

~~~
dang
Please don't post snarky internet insta-dismissals to HN. They greatly lower
the quality of discussion, even when they have some good points to make. There
are several such posts in this thread and that's a problem.

The entire genre of internet comments that dismiss the life-work of others
with a contemptuous hand-wave is problematic. Critique is good, but it should
seriously engage with what it is criticizing. That takes effort, for which
nastiness is an ugly substitute.

We detached this subthread from
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14816358](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14816358)
and marked it off-topic.

~~~
LoSboccacc
There are several post of such nature precisely because the whole post is a
feel good piece with pretend-science, severe bias and shaky conclusions

~~~
dang
Even if that's true, the I-know-better, snark-plus-clichés genre is a problem
here regardless of how bad an article is. This sort of comment is common on
the internet and poisons the environment it's posted to. By practicing it
here, you degrade the community and make it less interesting for all of us.
That's the real reason not to do it: for much the same reason you don't litter
in parks. We want thoughtful conversation here, not acid. Even about bad
articles.

Btw that longitudinal Harvard study has been well-known and interesting for
long time, despite its flaws. Previous HN threads have discussed it without
sinking into snark and I doubt that the community has become smarter since
then.

------
megamindbrian
TLDR: year 0 - 29 - Experience as much trauma, stress, and failure as you
possibly can. 30+ - Stop giving a fuck about your unaddressed trauma and find
a new reason to strive to stay alive.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synaptic_pruning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synaptic_pruning)

------
gojomo
Step 1: Achieve admission to, and enroll at, Harvard.†

Step 2: ?

Step 3: HAPPY LIFE

\--

† As a male in 1938.

~~~
dang
Please read
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14818590](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14818590)
and please don't post like this to HN.

~~~
gojomo
I'm familiar with the rules and think you've over-focused on the form, and
ignored the legitimate content, of my comment.

I like this study! I didn't call it 'bullshit' and there's nothing nasty in my
formulation.

But the high-order bit of things to be considered in the limits of this
study's interpretation is how peculiar the main focus group - Harvard
enrollees in 1938 - was.

This HU house-press piece only obliquely hints at the issue, by noting how the
study has gradually expanded to include children and wives, and an "inner-
city" "control group".

I realize wrapping the point in a formulaic meme risks making it look like
pure snark/dismissal. But it can also be a way to sharply and memorably raise
a very specific issue.

------
thegenius2000
I don't mean to be offensive or inflammatory, but how is this a discovery?
Yes, money and success don't buy you happiness; living in a complete community
is healthy. How was this not completely obvious?

~~~
gourou
Happiness is healthy seems to be their discovery

