
"That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends." - kilian
http://joethepeacock.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/thats-why-you-dont-have-any-friends.html
======
DanielBMarkham
I'm about as asocial and celebratory of diversity as they come, and I love
this essay, especially the conversational style. But I'd be careful not to
take this argument too far into sophistry.

In school people clan and desperately look for some identity to copy. This
leads to all the terrible social behavior you see in most secondary and high
school in the U.S. Somebody calling you "weird" can really be a badge of
honor.

But there's nothing to be gained in being different in itself. While you
should be who you are, if you only define yourself in how weird you are
compared to others _you're doing the same thing, only in reverse._ Instead of
saying "I will look at my peers and copy them" you're saying "I will look at
my peers and do the opposite" Both of these are just the same kind of herd
thinking. Being weird? Awesome. Being deliberately different? Not so much. You
need to do a gut check on this one. Schools are full of a bunch of people who
all are very proud of being different, just like everybody else.

I also note that the gym conversation consisted of people comparing social
preferences: sports teams, hollywood stars, and so on. These kinds of
conversations form a type of social bonding -- a joining of group opinion
(even if outliers are allowed). It's this very banter that creates the group
identity that then shuns other people for being "weird".

People are some funny animals.

~~~
dclowd9901
Why does every post on here need someone coming in explaining how it's wrong
in some way.

It's not only disingenuous, but outright wrong to assume the author was saying
"be weird for the sake of being weird." He's saying he _is_ weird, and that's
OK, just he won't see a lot of good in it in high school.

You're acting like he's advocating becoming a hipster, a straw man you
invented.

~~~
endersshadow
Did you come in looking for a fight? Daniel clearly stated that he thought the
argument was a good one, but it's too easy to take the extreme from the
headline (or miss the point of the essay entirely), and say that being "weird"
is good in and of itself. It's not, clearly. What he's saying is, find your
passion and damn the social torpedoes, because it'll all work out in the end.

Daniel's point was that being "weird" for the sake of it is not really the
point of the essay. He was not creating any type of straw man. You read it too
fast or not at all if you think he was.

~~~
dclowd9901
"But I'd be careful not to take this argument too far into sophistry."

"But there's nothing to be gained in being different in itself."

The essay needed no cautionary caveat, and that's what Daniel purported it was
missing. I posit it was missing nothing at all, and that only the most
hopelessly pedantic interpretation of it would call for an explanation of
exception.

So, no, not looking for for a fight, just a little tired the "making a point
for the sake of making a point."

~~~
knowtheory
A difficulty i have is that it sounds like you're nit-picking OP, claiming
that he's nit-picking.

The reason why I bring this up is that i don't think Daniel's point is a small
one. And perhaps he hasn't couched it in the most benign of ways (although it
is pretty benign), there is a difference between saying "Be true to yourself"
and "Being different is okay". It may well be the case that these two things
coincide occasionally, but i agree with Daniel that conflating the two
misstates what sucks about high school, and how life may change in the future.

------
anotherthrow
The sentiment of the article is great, but a lot of it just doesn't quite ring
true.

When the auther starts going on about other people being losers, and him being
a winner, because they do things he doesn't personally value, you start to
wonder if he is really free from defining himself in contrast to the guys who
excluded him years ago. Life isn't a competition like that.

There's a classic transformation you see a lot of high-functioning geeks go
through when they leave school, and start earning more money, living more
cosmopolitan lifestyles and meeting more interesting people than those they
left behind - they flip around and start juding their ex-classmates negatively
in just the way their classmates judged them. You see it a lot on places like
reddit, and I think it comes through a little in this article.

~~~
unalone
It might come through a little, but there's a difference between comparing
yourself perpetually to the people who used to torture you, and feeling
sympathetic to a 14-year-old kid who's being tortured now because you remember
what it was like to be his age. It's not too bad to remember that things used
to suck, and that they're better now. Plus, I don't know a thing about this
guy, but he sounds like like a cool dude from this blog post.

~~~
anotherthrow
I know, but on a (probably unfairly) uncharitable reading his advice is 'don't
worry, that girl who didn't want to kiss you is a loser, and so are the people
who don't want to hang out with you'. It might be comforting, but I don't
think it's healthy or true attitude to take.

------
kevinalexbrown
I really identified with the article, and the author seems to have taken a
reasonable course.

But I would not call all groups with social norms that differ from you
'losers' that 'lost the battle to be themselves.' The author's transformation
seems like it had more to do with finding somewhere he fit the social norms
than realizing any group that didn't want him was full of losers with no
personality. After all, the author found a group in _like-minded_ anime
fanatics, and his group has its own norms regarding conversation:

 _The topics change -- what cars are best, what sports are better than other
sports, what teams are better than other teams, what shows are better than
other shows (but never politics or religion -- something you learn really fast
in a gym is to never bring up the two topics most likely to incite violence in
a building filled with metal bars and heavy plates)._

Someone who walked in talking about the Talmud all the time probably wouldn't
fit in.

And that's fine. It would just be sad if the kid, like a lot of nerds I've
seen, unwittingly developed his own social norms, but was just as heart-
breakingly rigid about them as the kids in his school.

------
abraxasz
I like the article, a lot. But I have some reserve with the advice given.

In my experience, many people would actually be glad to hangout with someone
weird if he gives them some time to get used to it, and take it easy on the
weirdness at first. I consider myself weird (my weirdness is that I mostly
don't give a shit about conventional thinking and politically correct things.
I just love a good argument, to the point where I would provoke people I
barely know into arguments about politics, religion, whatever), and I have to
be extra-careful with what I say and do, otherwise people freak out. Sometimes
I slip and people think I'm crazy. But I'm getting better know, and I have a
group of friend with which I can be myself. I provoke them playfully and they
understand that it's just the way I am. And I'm grateful that they do.

Someone quoted Alain de Boutton in the thread: "Intimacy is the capacity to be
rather weird with someone - and finding that that's ok with them". That's
exactly right, but intimacy is not something you get immediately, for free.
It's something you have to build, it takes time, and sometimes it doesn't
work. Most of all, it takes compromises: people will accept you as you are
when they realize that you're interesting and that you care about them.

Now why should weird people go out of their way to befriend other people? Well
you have to be pragmatic here, and think about what you really want.
Friendship is an amazing thing, and is available to anyone, weird or not, and
doesn't require you to change who you are. It just requires you to be patient
and take it step by step. Is it being hypocritical? Pretending you're normal
when you really aren't? Not if it's temporary. Think of it as a way to create
a first contact, before working your way to a real connection, where both
parties can act natural. That's what social interactions are about, that's
what all this highschool BS is about, and that's why I think it's a bad idea
to home school your kids.

EDIT: An example of my weirdness in action: I often mess up with girls I
really like just because I can't help saying outrageous things just to spark a
good old argument. Damn.

~~~
js2
I'm with you right up to that part about not homeschooling your kids
(homeschool dad here). But I'll let it go since I think you may just be trying
to provoke an argument. :)

(Unless you've homeschooled, I don't think you have any idea how much social
interaction homeschool kids can get; we don't just sit at home all day.)

Edit: I see comments below on homeschooling and from homeschoolers. Our kids
get a ton of social interaction outside the home: homeschool co-
ops/events/park days with other homeschoolers, language lessons, sports
(karate, soccer, equestrian), music lessons, girlscouts/boyscouts, university
outreach programs, town provided activities (acting, choir, pottery, etc),
temple, playing with all the neighborhood kids, and that's just off the top of
my head.

My kids are 9 and 11 right now and are way more comfortable socially, and
better at it, than I (public school) ever was.

Ultimately I think a lot of it has to do with the kids and the parents. We
chose to homeschool our kids because we think we can do a better job with
their education, but it certainly hasn't hindered them socially.

~~~
aidenn0
I went to a well respected magnet school for high school, so we had a lot of
HS freshmen that were previously home-schooled. Then I majored in Physics in
college, so we had a lot of college freshmen that were previously home-
schooled.

I came to the conclusion that while there is a strong correlation between
home-schooled kids and poor socialization, it's almost certainly not as causal
as most people assume. All the "really weird kids" that were homeschooled had
equally weird parents, so there is a good likelyhood they would have had
issues even being in public school.

That being said, it did seem clear (and obvious in retrospect) that what
homeschooling does is allow the parents to have a much larger influence on
their kids up to an older age. The typical late-elementry aged kid will have
picked up a lot of behavior and habits from their peers, wheras the
homeschooled kid of similar age will have done so to a much lesser extent.
However, that influence seems to expire aproximately 4-8 weeks after the kid
leaves the homeschool environment so I don't think it's a big deal in the
long-term

~~~
kijin
There could also a be a self-selection bias.

Kids who like to socialize might resist homeschooling even if their parents
wanted it, because they want to be at school with their friends. On the other
hand, "weird" kids might beg their parents to be homeschooled because school
is so painful for them. So it would be too simplistic to say that
homeschooling _causes_ poor socialization. It could very well be the other way
around, too.

~~~
jtheory
There are also pretty strong influences on parents choosing to homeschool,
which filters down the _parents_ as well (and who the parents are has a huge
impact on what the child's experience will be).

Obviously the parents who homeschool because they want to keep extreme control
of their children's lives & ideas (like hyper-religious parents who don't want
their children taught evolution, or getting ideas that a woman might want to
do something other than marry & have children) won't be giving their children
a good experience.

But the biggest thing that strikes me is that parents who themselves are
succeeding in engaging the world at any kind of scale -- in making rich &
fulfilling lives of their own -- will find it extremely hard to be responsible
for so much of their kid's time.

Whereas the parents who would find it easiest are basically those who are
already at home and have lots of spare time -- but what example does that
give? And worse... if the parent's way to do something meaningful in the world
is to raise a child who will do something meaningful (i.e., pass the buck,
really), those expectations can put a huge strain on the child.

------
aculver
The author's observation about high school is exactly why my kids, by default,
will be home schooled. If they decide they want to go to public or private
school at some point, I'll let them. Unlike a lot of kids that end up getting
bullied, they'll know that their attendance is completely optional. I'm not
looking to shelter them from the real world, only the fake miniature society
that exists at school.

~~~
jenius
While I understand your point of view based on this one observation, I think
this is a terrible idea if you look at the big picture.

Whether they get bullied or not, high school is an extremely important time
for kids to gain social skills and learn how to deal with people. Dealing with
people is one of the most important skills you can have, period. And that
often means dealing with people that are being dicks, _and_ people who you
like and are good friends. And if people are being dicks, which they
inevitably will be, it's a good time for you to think about it, build your
self confidence, and figure out who you are.

I understand that sheltering them from the real world is not your _motivation_
for this opinion, but it is the reality of what will happen. Your kids will
miss out on a huge period of personal growth and a large expansion of their
experience dealing with other people which they will never be able to get back
later.

~~~
ef4
The thing is: school is _nothing_ like the real world. It teaches you how to
deal with school.

School is a very weird, twisted little society where none of the work has any
real point, there's no source of purpose other than pure social approval, and
everybody is either the same age or an authority figure.

The strategies you use for dealing with difficult people _in the real world_
are completely different from what you have to do in school. Same goes for how
to find friends, or how to decide what to do.

That's precisely why everyone is always saying "it will get better after you
get out of high school". Because the conditions in school are not at all
representative of the rest of your life.

~~~
eru
> [...] and everybody is either the same age or an authority figure.

At least nominally. Plenty of teachers turn into laughing stock.

------
chriseidhof
Slightly off-topic, but still relevant: a great quote from Alain de Botton:

"Intimacy is the capacity to be rather weird with someone - and finding that
that's ok with them."

[https://twitter.com/#!/alaindebotton/status/1924914438840115...](https://twitter.com/#!/alaindebotton/status/192491443884011520)

~~~
personlurking
Also slightly off-topic, but in one of Alain de Botton's videos on Youtube
titled "Epicurus on Happiness" [1], he states that Epicurus saw happiness as
having 3 components: self-reflection, self-sufficiency and friendship. This
leaves the question of 'can happiness be hacked?' to be pondered.

[1] - <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20LTTRQcZ8c>

------
pgsandstrom
There is also a hidden aspect of it: Those people who don't overcome teenage
awkwardness. Those who never regain their confidence and end up the weird tech
dude at the office whom no one ever speaks to. This guy might be able to feed
the kids confidence, and then you can encourage "weirdness", but it isn't
always as easy as that. Sometimes parents should just tell their kids to go
play sports or whatever, no matter if they want it or not, just so they can
learn to interact with other people and "be normal".

~~~
kstenerud
I'm hoping you mean encouraging your child to continue seeking out new and
different groups (sports, clubs, whatever) until he finds a place where people
will accept his strong individuality.

If, however, you mean forcing him to join a group of "normal" people who will
hammer him into the "normal" mold, I take great exception to your advice.

There is no worse blow to your self esteem than selling out on yourself to
gain the approval of others. Yes, people in general like to belong, so let
them CHOOSE to belong to a group that accepts them being themselves.

Here's what generally happens when you force an individualist into a group not
of his choosing:

1\. He resents you for deciding whom his friends should be.

2\. It destroys his confidence because even YOU don't believe in him.

3\. By the law of averages, his new group is likely to be comprised of exactly
the kinds of phonies he hates, and they're likely to dislike him for his
"weirdness".

Confidence is one of the, if not THE most important thing in the world. People
respect confidence, even if they hate you. Bullying is an attempt to destroy
your confidence while building the bully's confidence in himself by thinking
he's the better man for destroying someone weaker than him (and so long as you
don't fight back, he's right, btw). Most people get their confidence by
herding with other people and mimicking them. It gives them a false sense of
security, but it's confidence all the same. Unfortunately, that confidence
comes at the price of never being able to be their true selves, and never
being able to chase dreams that differ too much from the accepted norm.

Individuality and confidence are a potent blend. They breed explorers and free
thinkers, poets, philosophers, disruptors, and cross-cultural bridges. They
drive a person to blaze a trail of his own, bringing him after many trials and
tribulations to doors that open but for a select few. However, this only
happens _IF_ he has the confidence in himself to try, and that comes both from
within, and from his support base (you). Don't take that away from him!

------
tseabrooks
You can have all of the upvotes they'll let me give you. It's amazing being
"all grown up" and looking out and realizing that highschool and all of the
shit that happens while growing up has almost no connection to the real world.

~~~
ZanderEarth32
Isn't the 'real world' relative? To a kid in high school, that is the real
world. To a grown man among his peers at work, that is the real world. I never
understood telling kids that high school wasn't the real world. I can
understand telling them it gets better (and it does, I know) but to try to
mask certain stages of their lives as not real doesn't seem genuine.

~~~
AerieC
Maybe "the real world" isn't the right term, but high school certainly is an
isolated, controlled, and artificial environment compared to the rest of the
outside world. The kids are locked down and have little to no freedom and
little to no control over their environment. Also, some things that are
socially acceptable in high school are NOT socially acceptable in an adult
workplace.

In that sense, high school is not "the real world", because high school
students don't have the same freedom or the same tools to deal with obnoxious
people as they otherwise would in the adult world. In "the real world", you
have legal recourse if someone in your workplace is harassing you. You can get
a restraining order. You can talk to your H.R. department. You can sue your
workplace and/or the person if you've taken the above steps and nothing has
been done. You can quit your job and get a new one. In high school you have
none of those luxuries. Unless the harassment is extreme, there is very little
likelihood of getting a restraining order against another student.
Furthermore, getting a restraining order is not something a high schooler can
do on their own (they would need help from their parents). You can talk to the
administration at the school, but they don't have the same power, nor the same
incentive to avoid lawsuits (although this is changing) as a company's H.R.
department. Also, many school administrators are still of the mindset that
"kids will be kids" when it comes to bullying/harassment, and are unwilling to
do anything about the issue. Finally, a high schooler cannot simply quit high
school like an adult can quit his or her job. Again, it involves their
parents's help.

That is the difference between high school and "the real world". In the real
world, harassment is a serious legal issue; in high school, it's just "kids
will be kids". In the real world, you have at least a modicum of control over
your environment; in high school, kids have no control. In the real world,
actions have consequences; in high school, apparently, they do not.

------
vectorpush
Highschool is one thing, but don't let this advice fool you into believing
that every subtle faux pas is a badge of honor. I know several brilliant
"weird" people who have learned to love themselves but have simultaneously
rejected the notion of managing their social quirks.

You know the kind I'm talking about; the knowledgeable but frustratingly
pedantic and egotistical smart-ass who can't glance passed his own hubris to
consider the lowly opinions of mere mortals, or the talkative engineer who
spends 30 minutes every morning boasting about his cool personal projects in
your office (completely oblivious to the social cues that say "stop talking,
let us get back to work"), or the enthusiastic geek who alienates non-nerds by
_always_ steering the conversation to obscure technical topics that half the
group has no interest or knowledge of.

Don't be ashamed of who you are, but don't let a headstrong attitude make you
believe that it's never your own fault that others find your presence
alienating.

------
magv
Is this a US thing?

In Ukraine, no-one is weird. No-one is a geek, or a nerd -- there aren't even
equivalent words in our language. Nobody thinks less of you if you're smart,
shy, or talk about transistors on occasion. There are no "popular kids", and
even the scariest kid in school is not a bully.

So, again, what is wrong with US schools?

~~~
Tooluka
I'm from Ukraine and I can say that at least in case of one school you are
wrong. There was complete pack of school BS - nerds, geeks, alpha's, omega's,
dominance games, bullying, etc. etc. And it was a little better than average
school in the capital. I wondered at times what it is like in the regional
schools... PS: you don't need to call geek "a geek" to bully him ;)

~~~
xixi77
Those (regional or generally crappy) places can actually be better for some
people -- true, bullying for the select unlucky few can be far worse, but on
the other hand in my experience the rest of the students tend to be less
cliquish compared to the "a little better than average" places.

------
nickik
Nice, that will help him alot.

As somebody from Europe, we always see these typical American High Schools and
think it can really be like this. Sure they overdo it in movies but I have
read a fair amount of blogpost and reddit comments that discribe the same
problem.

There is grouping and groupe think too in Schools here but not in the same
extrem way. It could be selection bios on my part but lets look at the
diffrents in the schooling system.

In Switzerland (most parts) we have 1-2 years of Kindergarden, 6 years of
Elementry School and then the people get split up in 3 diffrent section
depending on your grade. The lower to only take 3 more years and after them
mandatory school is finished and most people start an profecional education
via the Dual Education System
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_education_system>). The other way is to go
6 more years and then most people go to a universety.

The good parts are that more often then not you put people to gather that go
together. The typical movie example where the bull beats up the nerd doesnt
really happen. The next positiv thing is that you put people together that are
about equal in how fast they learn. The guy who always distracts the class
will not hold back the guy who wants to learn. The studends get the matiral in
there own speed, thus they don't feel stupid because of the fast learners,
witch can be bad for confidence and it can cause social conflicts.

The bad is of course that you split up frindships because people go to
diffrent schools and you just don't see each other that much anymore. This
happend to me and only years later we really start hanging out again. Today
kids are much better equiped to deal with this. To other bad thing is that
often good studends could help the others.

It seams to me spliting up teenagers that are in puberty is good way to avoid
social problems.

Other opinions why this problem seams worst in the US or is it just selection
bias?

~~~
woobar
Does this mean that if kid is underachieving in Elementary school he is
screwed up for life? I've heard that similar system is in Germany. And at very
early stage in someone life he could be relegated to be second-class citizen.

~~~
nickik
It is a problem but I think the system is pretty well optimized to allow to
jump around.

If after three years you want to do the mid-level instead of the low one you
can just add a year and do it.

If you do the mid-level you can go to something called "Kurzzeit Gymnasium"
witch will take you four years but you end up with the same with the top-level
kids.

Even if you do a educatonaly simple job with a start from the lowest level you
can do a 'Berufsmatura' combined with working. This gives you almost the same
thing as the normal top-level would give you. You can go to some university
(there is no word for them in english but you get a beachlor all the same).
With one extra year of school you can go to all of them.

In that respect im pretty happe with the system. Socialy it works out pretty
good too, you arn't some kind of idiot if you go to the lowest level.

------
chaostheory
I like the essay as a whole, but there is one clue that struck me.

"Then one day, Mike got tired of my bullshit and said those words to me.
"That's why you don't have any friends," he said at very high volume. He
deserved to say it -- I'd just told him to go fuck himself when he tried to
explain why my girlfriend at the time was screwing someone behind my back. I
called him every name in the book."

It's not being weird that will make you a pariah; being an asshole does.

~~~
egonschiele
If you read Daniel Goleman's Social Intelligence, he claims that being awkward
will make you a bigger pariah than if you were just an asshole. Not sure how
true that is. But I was certainly both awkward and weird in high school.

------
davemel37
My takeaway from this post is that, " You can really make a difference in
someones life if you take a moment to empathize with their situation, and
share a word or two of support."

I bet that kid will remember this speech for the rest of his life. I know, cuz
I have my share of good and not-so-good memories from as young as a little boy
to as recent as yesterday about how far a nice sympathetic and understanding
word or two can go, and how damaging a cruel and dismissive comment can be.

We should all take a lesson from this. We are all human beings, and we all
have commonalities we can empathize with and relate to in some capacity. It's
all about perspective, and guess what... Perspective is all we have!

Use it at your discretion.

But remember, when that awkward weird boy changes the world one day, and looks
back and says, "I was once in a gym hanging out with some older blokes, and
one fellow gave me the confidence to be myself.I owe it all to him."

------
srconstantin
I didn't have social trouble in high school, I had trouble in college. And
that's something that I think goes unrecognized. Everybody knows about the
crazy suburban high school experience, but a surprising number of my friends
were severely unhappy in college. I can barely remember my freshman year -- I
pretty much blocked it out. And I went to an Ivy League school. There was a
kind of background noise level of callousness; people who were "different" in
various ways were singled out for mockery in the school paper, people who were
struggling were ostracized. And the undergrad culture was seriously
misogynistic -- I accepted it as a given while I was there, but by the time I
graduated I noticed I was advising girls not to go there if they had other
options.

It's not just high school that can suck. Teenagers are immature, but there are
other kinds of environments that can be stressful and isolating. And the
advice is the same -- get through it, and then find a culture where you fit in
better.

------
sopooneo
That sounds like a pretty good speech, but I can tell you from experience that
the thing that will help kids most is _listening_ to them. We tend to project
whatever our frustrations were in childhood onto all struggling adolescents
(and almost all adolescents are struggling) but the content of these heartfelt
talks is much less important to the kid than being heard and knowing people
care.

------
akmiller
It's definitely an inspirational story in a way...but lets not be quick to
call the other kids "losers".

We must remember that they are all kids just trying to find their way. Some
kids find their way by trying their best to fit in while others might be like
the kid in this story.

You can build this kid up while not tearing the others down. Even the kids who
are popular and mean, like the girl he mentions in the story, may at an older
age find some of the things they did in school reprehensible. Lets not condemn
them while they are still young and immature.

------
jwingy
Awesome.

On a side note, I wonder why this culture of popularity has to be the default
in our schools?

~~~
personlurking
Always odd to have always realized that the 'cool' kids are popular because
they can successfully mimic styles and behaviors pushed on them by
corporations and style-makers. Shouldn't they instead be called 'mindless
drones'?

Merchants of Cool <http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/cool/view/>

~~~
re_todd
And it's the wealthier kids that can afford the stuff that makes them cool.
It's all about getting the wealthy to feel superior to the rest of us and
pretending that wealth had nothing to do with it.

------
iamsoreal
This is a nice story but it makes everything seem too easy and I say this as
someone who had a similar experience at secondary school. Even though it has
been 7 years since it was over, I still relive it.

I was rarely bullied but I was almost completely ostracised for two years of
my life. Before these years I had only a few friends and acquaintances. It's
difficult to pinpoint any particular reason, but it was probably because I had
truly awful brace treatments and that I was shy to the point of awkwardness;
my geekyness and creativity could have been offset if I had been able to
socially manouvre. To my detriment, my upbringing at home was fairly
traditional and my parents believed that I should 'be a man'. I kept quiet.
(They also didn't believe it was worth the money to buy me a school dinner so
I could sit with everybody else, or drive me to friend's houses more than a
couple of miles away... _sigh_ )

To survive: I learnt to cope with silence, I learnt to be my own person, I
learnt to concentrate on my hobbies, and I learnt self-control. However as the
weeks passed and I 'stood strong' my actual thought patterns deteriorated.
Weird fantasies of not existing or martyring myself crept into my mind, and I
began to find it difficult to pay attention to school work or imagine a better
future. My grades dropped from A/Bs to C/Ds. I was very depressed, and my
upbringing and personality gave me little opportunity to get help. All the
time this went on, people washed their hands of me, understanding me to be yet
another introverted kid who was happy to be on his own. I suspect there is
very little which could have helped me even if I had spoken out.

My point is that: a few days alone is uncomfortable, a few weeks unbearable,
but a few months or years is traumatic.

But, I will tell you the upside. The stressful moments in your life generate
the person you are. The old adage is true: "What doesn't kill you, makes you
stronger." and so one day I lay back and decided I would fix everything.

Few will understand: after a difficult life, all adversity is shallow. "Ethos
Anthropos Daimon."

I destroyed my social anxiety. I gained back my self-confidence. I am driving
myself like a machine to work and to educate myself.

But it is so difficult to atone, and I am off the beaten track with strong
individualistic values, constantly striving to be more. While I can empathise
with all that have struggled, who can empathise with me?

~~~
foobaar
I had to register just to point out how dead-on accurate you are.

I was never bullied either because I became an expert at never being noticed.
Camouflage is a fine defense mechanism if you're an octopus, but a human can't
live that way indefinitely at the cost of his own individualism. Sooner or
later you'll _want_ to be noticed by potential friends and by the opposite
sex. That "hide in the shadows" mentality which kept you alive through high
school will start to work against you and the world will seem much smaller,
colder and meaningless.

Any success you have in life gets attributed to dumb luck. The mind kills any
thoughts of pride in your work. You see no point in meeting new people because
"they won't like me anyway" or "I just won't know what to say," which does
nothing but fulfill your self-inflicted prophecy. You feel nothing but the
lows in life; if you're like me, you may have used drugs to simulate the
highs. Thoughts of martyrdom become common after a couple of years because if
your life is going to be meaningless then at least your death shouldn't be.
This kind of thought process takes years to form and unfortunately just as
long to destroy.

And after you succeed, you're still left with lingering thoughts about how
many years you've wasted and how you'll never get them back. That particular
demon is a serious little fucker because it's rooted in truth. If you've made
it this far, though, then you've already faced worse.

I eventually saw the problem and rooted it out, but many people never will.
Hopefully this kind of discourse gets through to a few of them.

------
excerionsforte
Interesting. I learned during my tenure in college (still here) that everyone
is weird.. has their quiddities and more over it's more or less isolated from
what is really going on outside of it. You really aren't lonely, as per say.
You always have the opportunity to connect to people who aren't similar to
you, but quality over quantity I say. :)

------
chernevik
It's a great post. One of my kids struggles socially, and I've had similar
conversations.

I'd add this: You have to love the things you love. When you meet people who
love the same things, and it could be a while, your friendships will go deep
because they're founded on something deep and dear to you. And you'll be a
great partner in exploration because you know these great things. Conceding
yourself to other people's notions now erodes your ability to form real
relationships later.

Which isn't to say such kids shouldn't look for as much commonality they can
find. And they should note that they may have some genuinely negative and
offputting behaviors which they shouldn't accept in themselves. It's very hard
for these kids to pick out the social cues that they should read because they
get so many they shouldn't.

But yeah, kids need to hear that it can sometimes take a long time to find
their place.

------
mattiask
Loved the story and it's very good advice indeed. I'd like to add one thing
though. Having a "fuck them" or "they are losers" attitude (not saying the
article advocates that) isn't really healthy. It might be great for a boosting
your ego short term but it isn't constructive in the long run.

I don't think one should look down or harbor anger/resentment towards
_anyone_. Not because it hurts them, but because it hurts you, and your
happiness.

So my advice would be to try and understand why people act the way they do,
why it probably is caused by some underlying problems/childhood whatever and
if anything feel pity (so long it doesn't go into besserwisser territory)
rather than resentment.

It's also great to be able to socialize with all kinds of people. They might
not be exactly like you, they might not share all or any of your values but
surely you can find something interesting in interacting and trying to
understand them.

Another sign of personal growth is that you don't have to convince other
people they're wrong or convert them to your views. If it's being discussed
you can put front your opinion in a constructive manner and let it be up to
them whether to agree or disagree. Also always be open minded about other
people's viewpoints and try to understand where there coming from and if there
might be something to it.

Sorry if I sounds a little fluffy or obivous but I feel that changing my own
perspective on things like that has been very beneficial

------
rralian
Yep, I was one of the brainiacs, socially awkward... not necessarily alone.
More in the "activities" clique, which was by no means cool. I'm still pretty
awkward, honestly. I'm either the life of the party or climbing the walls
trying to get away from people. I have no middle ground.

Anyway, while I totally understand supporting this kid and letting him know
there's nothing wrong with him, I'm not so sure it's healthy to feed the "us
vs them" (or "me vs them") mindset either. Though I totally understand it.
Yes, everyone is an idiot in high school. Even him. The "cool" kids aren't
necessarily giving up their identity just to fit in. Maybe they just like the
same things. But honestly they're probably not all that happy either. Everyone
is miserable, and they're all pretty much idiots. I mean, you're in high
school.

I think the important thing is to help build confidence (and importantly not
arrogance, which is just a defense mechanism) in these kids. Find something
they love to do and support them. Confidence is really the most attractive
trait. Outside of just being super-hot, that is. :-)

My son is five years old now, and I can already see his social skills
following his daddy's footsteps. I see the other kids talk to him when I drop
him off for school, and he'll just ignore them and stand off by himself. It's
not them or anything they're doing, it's his mindset. I would desperately like
to help him avoid the some of the mistakes I made. I think I'm actually pretty
hard on him because of this. And then I feel pretty awful myself.

Anyway, sorry for the verbose meandering comment... I've just been thinking
through this stuff myself, so it's useful to write it out.

------
tlear
There is a lot to learned and gained from learning how to deal with people.
Becoming a hermit is not an achievement. Most people who "do not have friends"
are not in that situation because they are something extra special and
different snowflakes but because they have not learned how to communicate,
empathize, follow simple social norms and perhaps even take shower time to
time. Not being an ass usually gets you at least few decent friends.

------
navs
It was the same for me in Fiji. I was into comics, computers, video games and
not rugby. In Fiji, not liking rugby instantly makes you an outcast. 7 years
later and I'm no better. All that loneliness led to insecurities that I have
yet to shake. Now I work in a studio with a bunch of designers, photographers
and on occasion, models and I feel as lonely as ever.

Hopefully in 10 years I can belong to a studio of amazingly weird, relatable
people.

------
padobson
The money line: _You want to know what's weird? Hiding who you are just to
have the company of people you don't even like. That's weird._

I was an athlete in high school, so early on I hung out with the athletes.
Those in that group were not particularly enjoyable company, but I was too
young to know what enjoyable company was.

When I finally stopped hanging out with athletes and took my proper place
among the band geeks and drama nerds, that's when high school started to suck
less (it always sucked, but it sucked a whole lot less when I discovered the
type of people I liked being around).

Everyone needs validation. Everyone needs needs social acceptance. Everyone
needs human affection. We're hard wired to require these things. But this can
only truly come through introspection. You must conclude that you are a deeply
flawed individual, and that those flaws don't separate you from your peers,
but are actually the common ground.

The reason why you don't have any friends is because there is a failure to
realize these common flaws. One side will often point this out: "You're weird.
You're odd. You're not normal". Such phrases are not meant to affect any
emotion in the target, but rather to hide the flaws of the speaker.

It is the truly enlightened individual that can recognize the speaker is as
deeply flawed as they, and counter with affection and affirmation: "You're
dead on. I'm crazy weird. You're beautiful/smart/funny/athletic, and I'm happy
to be weird enough to say so"

How much better would high school be for everyone involved if high schoolers
could just avoid going on the offensive to hide their own flaws, stop thinking
about what makes them better than those around them in the ceaseless measuring
of cocks, and start measuring and encouraging the best qualities in their
peers?

Can such a (high school)world exist? I pray that it can.

------
growt
reminds me of this: <http://www.viruscomix.com/page500.html>

------
Tsagadai
I resonate with the article but I think the author only groks half the lesson.

And, "Fuck them" is rarely the solution.

It isn't being different, accepted, weird or yourself that is important. It is
how well you can interact with other human beings. You can bang on about
finding your niche or just being true to yourself but you are then following
just another brand of conformity and group dynamics. The author himself
realises this. He's in a gym, in this tale, with others he bonds with through
social interaction and bonding (talking about sports, not pissing people off,
joking about). What the author has stumbled upon is an understanding of the
nuances of socialising and friendship.

I resonate with the post because like the author I was weird in school. I'm
still weird as an adult. I had few friends (sometimes no friends) and would
frequently fight. I was an outsider. Growing up didn't change many of those
things (well, I don't have to live in a Lord-of-the-Flies style dystopia any
more). Growing up helped me realise it isn't about who you think you are it is
about _how_ you interact with others.

I'm still an anti-social outsider but now I know how to make friends and get
along with other people. Weirdness isn't something I wear as a badge of
honour, it's just a factor of my personality. I can hide it to fit in. I can
appear different to how I really am in order to get things done. You can be
yourself, and you should with people you want to get close to. You have
thousands of other people you will need to interact with to get things done,
it is them that you have to be "less weird" for.

Now, I can bond with people who once upon a time would (and did) attack me on
sight. Since then, I've sat around talking the gossip/sport/trivia/current
events/reported speech topic that gets them excited over a beer or other
social medium. Everyone loves to think there is some huge unfathomable
difference between them and people that they don't get along with. There
isn't, the only thing preventing you and anyone getting along is how well you
can socialise.

It's the conclusion that I disagree with the author over. They are already
practising the solution, his gym buddies are bonding with the kid and the kid
seems to be learning. Most of us eventually learn how to interact with each
other civilly, that's what growing up is about.

Eventually, almost all of us learn how to be part of one tribe or another. We
are biologically programmed to find our tribe. So what's you favourite....

------
dools
Good story. As a side note: why do men have to be so mind numbingly boring? I
had the misfortune of hanging out with a bunch of guys I didn't really know
recently and the talk was similar to that described here (sports, women,
avoidance of anything actually interesting like religion or politics). It was
so boring I just left and went back to work.

As a gender, I think men have a lot to answer for in terms of conversation
skills. Stop being so boring and predictable. Stop talking about sports as a
habit.

~~~
zachsnow
Hang out with different men, odds are they will talk about different things.
Or, find sports and women more interesting.

It's quite unlikely that all men, everywhere, only talk about things that
everyone really thinks are boring. It's also unlikely that everyone everywhere
thinks discussing politics and religion is particularly interesting.

------
Lapsa
reminds me one of xkcd comic: <http://xkcd.com/610/>

~~~
Exposure101
Haha, xkcd FTW!

------
xxcode
Never till I went to MIT did I not feel that I was weird. At MIT, it felt ok
to be me. I was like that, and others were kinda like that, and we were good
together.

------
evincarofautumn
“Even the furry had more friends than I did.”

That’s a bit harsh.

Still, the overall sentiment is very much on point. It’s not really expected
that a high school student should think for himself and go about his life
_normally_ , without adopting a particular social identity. Unfortunately, it
simply doesn’t occur to some of us to bother trying to fit in. But if you keep
an independent, open mind and learn to deal with people, you’ll do fine no
matter what.

------
huherto
I am very late to this discussion, but I wanted to share my thoughts. I didn't
like too much the advice of the article. I would have taken the opportunity to
tell the kid about diversity, to appreciate the diversity of other people and
specially his own. Observe that every body has strengths and weakness, that no
one is perfect. Also, It can't be that everybody is an asshole. But even if
they are, it is not his fault.

------
vikas5678
I went through a similar phase during my high school years where I felt like I
was weird and an outsider. When I was about to graduate, I found a gym,
started working out and it changed my life. I feel happy for the kid in this
story because he was at the gym, interacting with mature adults, and learning
the discipline of weight training - great way to build a good foundation for
his future.

------
Tichy
This message that you will get out of your small town and meet likeminded
people is a big one. However, why wait miserable years? I think even in a
small town there are on average enough freaks so that you don't have to be
lonely. The question is how to find and activate them. Also, some
socialization might be acceptable even for freaks, for example "normal"
clothing, showering etc.

------
g-garron
Wow, that was a little long-post, but I enjoyed it a lot. It remembered my
school days, I used to be interested in computers and physics and math.
Usually others seek me because they needed help on homework. Yes you feel
yourself a little weird, but then you grow up, and you realize that weird is
also cool. If you enjoy being weird. Let's be weird, if you want to.

------
StavrosK
By the way, what's with the "even the furry had more friends than me" bigotry?
Would "even the gay had more friends than me" fly?

~~~
54mf
Considering the fact that he speaks fondly of him outside of that line, I
assumed he was being facetious and playing off the common social view of
furries as loner weirdos. Not that that makes it okay, but I don't think it
was meant to be harmful.

~~~
evincarofautumn
I chalk it up to the fact that what’s perfectly normal within a group of
friends can seem harsh from the outside. He’s probably just accustomed to
making jokes like that with Jay, so sees no issue putting it on his blog.

~~~
Lockyy
"Perfectly normal within friends."

What is perfectly normal within friends can still be unwanted, even if it was
okay at first. It's why I don't like to encourage jokey insults like this any
more. Sure at first I was okay with homophobic comments, but after a while it
turns from being playful with friends into hurtful and annoying.

I definitely agree with StavrosK, it does feel very off to me.

~~~
evincarofautumn
Well, yes. I did find the comment in extremely poor taste, but I also don’t
pretend to have enough information to assess it further. Nothing to do but
suspend judgement and give a measured response.

~~~
StavrosK
Well, if a gay friend of mine doesn't mind "even the gay gets laid more than
me", it still doesn't mean I'll go around saying it in public or online, I
don't have the relationship I have with my friend with everyone.

Anyway, I was just checking to see if that was a generally accepted statement
just because the word "furry" was there rather than something else, or if I
was missing something.

~~~
evincarofautumn
Oh, undoubtedly. Even online, the vast majority of people don’t know or
understand internet subcultures nearly as well as general issues of sexuality.
It’s unrealistic to expect otherwise.

I take more good-natured flak from my friends for identifying as a furry than
for being bisexual. This without even associating with roleplay, pornography,
fursuiting, conventions, Otherkin, or any of the “sub-subcultures” that get
attention for their peculiarities. I just think anthropomorphic animal
characters are pretty swell.

~~~
daeken
While I'd agree if this was just a random friend he was referring to as a
furry, but... this is Jay Naylor we're talking about. His being a furry is
very, very, very public -- in fact, he's one of the best known furries out
there. I think you're taking this entirely too seriously.

~~~
evincarofautumn
Distasteful is not serious. Consider the durian fruit, how it smells, how it
makes us hold our noses and laugh. No, I don’t take this seriously. I have
already forgotten it.

------
tehayj
It is not about you or them being weird, it is about being real. If you are
real you will get respect for that no matter what you are. You might not get
respect from the "cool" group or the "geek" group but you will get respect
from all those who would like to be like you but are not because they try to
fit in.

------
majmun
If you are considered "wiered" that means you probably also lack the social
competence to know what is the definition of word "friend". so don't wory as
far as you know you may have many friends, but wrongly think that you dont
have any. and your enemy may be your best friend. as far as you know.

------
einarlove
By motivating the boy, I believe it could only strengthen his own motivation.
Keep it up.

------
sniperjoe
After reading this article I am sure of one thing, he is not a minority. This
existential crisis of "weirdness" he refers to is the luxury of those who are
supposed to be normal.

------
methoddk
Thanks for this. I was the "weird" kid in junior high and someone just like
you gave me that speech. It helped tremendously, and you changed that kid's
life.

------
Exposure101
I'm glad there is still awesome people out there and thriving. I'm 25 and I
still feel like the weird kid sometimes.

------
frederico
outstanding article; things ring so so true. Highschool is such a rough time
with getting people singled out, and it's hard for those who are individuals.

Kudos to this guy for an outstanding talk to this kid; inspires hopefully many
of us to share our experiences and reach out to younger kids we see.

------
tzaman
I wish someone explained it to me like this, back then.

------
skrebbel
tl;dr: "has it ever occured to you that it's just everybody else's problem
that they can't get along with you?"

------
zashapiro
I really love this story. It's so incredibly hard to see the forest for the
trees when you're that age.

I love PG's notion that some kids are playing the popularity game and others
are playing an entirely different game, because they're being individuals and
are learning or pursuing something they want, regardless of popularity.

