
Vision Insurance Is Making Glasses More Expensive - walterbell
http://www.daniellivingston.com/2017/04/vision-insurance-is-making-your-glasses.html
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krishanath
The reason eye glasses cost so much is the multiple monopolies of Luxottica.
Luxottica owns: (1) nearly all brand name frames including Ray-Ban, Oakley,
Prada eyewear, Armani eyewear and so on, (2) nearly all retail stores such as
LensCrafters, Pearle Vision, Sears Optical and Target Optical and (3) EyeMed,
one of the largest vision insurance companies.

Luxottica retail brands: [http://www.luxottica.com/en/retail-
brands](http://www.luxottica.com/en/retail-brands)

Luxottica eyewear brands: [http://www.luxottica.com/en/eyewear-
brands](http://www.luxottica.com/en/eyewear-brands)

Luxottica vision insurance:
[http://www.luxottica.com/en/node/6336](http://www.luxottica.com/en/node/6336)

See 60 Minutes story on Luxottica:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDdq2rIqAlM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDdq2rIqAlM)

~~~
burntrelish1273
Thank you.

Non-Luxopoly choices FTW:

[https://madeeyewear.com](https://madeeyewear.com)

[https://www.warbyparker.com](https://www.warbyparker.com)

Also, VSP is the major vision insurance co. in the US (80M insured).

Perhaps the source of standard retail costs _of prescriptions_ is the
negotiation powers of insurance co.'s coupled with insured apathy ("it's not
my money").

~~~
jayess
[http://www.zennioptical.com](http://www.zennioptical.com)

~~~
1123581321
I bought a pair of Zennis in 2013. I have a strong prescription and got maxed
out UV, indexing, etc. on a (imo) good-looking frame. $75 for what would have
cost me $300-400 out of pocket after my vision insurance credit. Additionally,
I was able to submit the $75 as an out-of-network expense. It took some
paperwork, but the return on my time was worthwhile.

~~~
pravda
$75? Way to go big spender. ;-)

My latest shipment of Zenni's came in recently.

$28.26 for two pairs. And they came in ten days!

[http://www.zennioptical.com](http://www.zennioptical.com)

------
gervase
As someone who previously worked in this industry, I highly suggest that you
consider purchasing your eyewear online (through a wholesaler like Zenni
Optical, for example). Premiums or not, you're paying a huge markup for brick-
and-mortar (plus the Luxottica tax) to buy in-person.

The _only_ benefit to buying in-person is the ability to go back and exchange
your glasses for a new prescription, but even if you do that twice and your
optometrist charges you for a new exam each time, you'd _still_ be saving
money ordering online.

In cases where your exam nails your prescription the first time, it's
drastically cheaper (more than one order of magnitude) to shop online. Bonus,
you can afford to purchase several pairs of glasses to keep all over the
place, ensuring a broken or lost pair is not a big deal.

Note, I only have experience with eyewear; I have never worn contacts, which
may be a different story.

~~~
mistermann
This may be a dumb question....I recently had my eye checkup at Costco and
they said I could get by with reading glasses for now, but if it's not too
expensive I wouldn't mind getting a pair of progressives - does that require a
more in-depth test or can I just use the number they gave me from the exam?
(It was about 6 months ago, so perhaps I should go get another exam? And let
them know I'm thinking of getting progressives? I know nothing about it.)

~~~
el_benhameen
My doctor was hesitant to prescribe me progressives given how difficult it can
be to get used to them, and he spent a fair amount of the exam figuring out
where to set the focal distance (had me hold my phone at a natural reading
distance, had me read from a card at different distances, etc.). I have a very
odd prescription, so that could have been part of it. Still, if it’s not too
much time and cost, I’d go back and get the exam and get a prescription that
explicitly includes progressive values.

Also, someone on HN talked about getting a prescription for reading up close
(essentially the bottom focal distance of a progressive lens across the entire
lens) and another standard prescription for non-reading use. When I have the
time to get my prescription re-done, I’m going to do that instead of
progressives. They’re a real pain to get used to, and they correct neither
near nor far sight perfectly.

~~~
walterbell
A dedicated computer or reading pair gives the best optical quality. Second
best is magnetic (Chemistrie from Eynavision) or clip-on (Eclips) custom
reading lenses that attach to your existing glasses, to adjust the focal
plane.

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gnarbarian
This is similar to how medical insurance or student loans drive up prices.

Divorcing consumers from the cost of these services causes them to be less
price sensitive. Even if they ultimately end up paying higher premiums there
is no direct feedback occuring at the time the exchange takes place. So
consumers are less thrifty, and there is less pressure to drive down prices
through competition.

~~~
criddell
>Divorcing consumers from the cost of these services causes them to be less
price sensitive.

When a family member collapses and you call an ambulance, I can't imagine
anybody being particularly price sensitive.

~~~
dmm
Emergency care is around 2% of health care spending in the US so most
healthcare decisions are not that time critical.

~~~
criddell
That's an order of magnitude lower than I would have guessed.

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gruez
vision "insurance" isn't for reducing risk, it's actually a vehicle for
delivering tax-free compensation by employers. since you're not paying income
tax on the benefits, you're saving at least the marginal tax rate (~35%
depending on the state). IANAL, but the arrangement might also cause no sales
tax to be collected. also, your employer who's buying in bulk presumably gets
a % discount over whatever rate the blog's quoting. in the end, i would be
surprised if there wasn't a net savings.

~~~
Glyptodon
Most employers also wouldn't add their contribution towards vision insurance
to your salary if you decline coverage. I'd decline several of my employment
benefits in an instant if I could get the employer's contribution added to my
salary somehow. But that is not the world we live in.

~~~
snuxoll
I could get a much better plan individually on the insurance market with just
what my employer pays per month to our insurance trust. On the other hand, I’m
also young - a lot of the employees in my company are middle aged or higher,
so that contributes a lot to our costs, if I were older it would change a lot
of things.

And this ultimately brings us to the reason why universal healthcare would be
cheaper. Having our population of 300MM+ spread into so many different risk
pools screws with financials of premiums a ton. Even with our aging population
we’d be paying significantly less if the entire country was in a single risk
pool.

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bgirard
I noticed this last year getting my first pair of glasses in the bay area. My
VSP plan doesn't cover high index lenses which is $100 upgrade, which is
mandatory for my prescription, and there's non covered add-ons for scratch
resistance and glare for ~$70. So my out of pocket cost after my VSP premiums
is still $170 IIRC.

I tried to shop around quickly but I was informed that optometrist had put a
hold on my insurance preventing me from getting another quote. I asked for my
prescription and they were hostile. Turns out I can get a pair of glasses
online at zennioptical without using my insurance for less than just my out of
pocket cost using my VPS plan. I wonder how much my employer is paying for
this 'insurance' plan that requires me to pay more for glasses than online
retail.

That's a pretty terrible insurance plan if you ask me.

~~~
sackofmugs
Once I started thinking of vision insurance as more like a bad coupon, where
you get some small amount off if you buy a certain overpriced brand, it lost
its appeal.

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pxeboot
Does this surprise anyone? Insurance companies have massive overhead. I work
near a large insurance HQ. It is a beautiful building with lots of nice cars
in the parking lot.

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notliketherest
That's because the insurance companies can negotiate steep discounts from eye
glass providers, given they have so many members and choose what eye glass
providers they can buy from "in network". So the eye glass providers up their
prices so that 25% discount from last year takes a smaller bite out of their
profit margins. Rinse and repeat for 40 years and you'll get what has already
happened to the health insurance market place: $800 for a pair of Advil "base
price". Insurance companies get a huge discount. Non insured individuals are
shit out of luck (though the providers normally waive a substantial percentage
of cost for the neediest patients.)

------
pkaye
I have VSP insurance and got some new glasses recently. The staff was pushing
Flexon frames because she said they were priced better for my insurance. I
only found out later that Flexon is a company owned by VSP insurance. Now I
figured out how they make money on the small little they charge for insurance
coverage monthly through my employer.

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kuba77
I was surprised how cheap glasses can be when I moved to Malaysia. Back at
home in Poland I was used to paying $100 to $250 for a pair of glasses. Here
there are many home brands that offer good quality glasses for $50.

(My vision isn't very bad, so I'm mostly paying for fashion)

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naner
The truth lies somewhere in between. I'd recommend finding a good eye doctor
you trust (ask around) and look at your itemized bill and insurance closely to
figure out what's best for you. I'll say that my insurance, while not great,
is absolutely a better deal than a flex or HSA account when purchasing
glasses. I do, however, spend a little more and typically buy frames from my
optometrist. I've gone the online frame route before and I think a lot of
people can find value there, but I wear my glasses everyday and am willing to
spend a little more for better quality.

------
indymike
There was a time where prescriptions were not required to be given to the
patient. The patient had to buy glasses from the doctor. Glasses were
routinely $100-$200 in 1980s dollars (that's what, $300-$400 in 2017 dollars).
Now you can use your vision insurance to get your eyes checked and take your
prescription wherever... It ends up being a pretty good deal. $50-$100 for the
checkup and $10-$30 for really nice glasses online.

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WheelsAtLarge
Eyeglasses and hearing aids are a racket. In my local hospital, there's large
section just for frames. It's the only area where they have salespeople
convincing you to buy frames above what your insurance will cover.

Same thing with hearing aids, I went and had my hearing tested and there was a
salesman just outside the test room waiting to sell you their services which
sold hearing aids for $999.00+ plus services.

------
rjmorris
One factor the article missed is that your vision insurance also covers the
eye exam. VSP covered $180 of my most recent exam, which is more than I pay
annually in premiums. Therefore, by including the entire premium in the cost
of glasses with insurance, I think the article overstates its case. (One could
probably argue that the exam cost is higher because of insurance, but the
article didn't make that claim.)

~~~
walterbell
Optometrists have at least a 10% error rate. That’s for prescriptions so wrong
that the patient cannot “adapt” (read: their brain cannot error correct) the
lens. An even greater percentage of prescription or lens errors are corrected
by the brain’s visual cortex, which means the brain is doing avoidable work
and wasting energy.

Warby Parker charges $40 for an online exam:
[https://www.warbyparker.com/prescription-check-
app](https://www.warbyparker.com/prescription-check-app)

Smart Vision Labs startup is lowering cost and improving accuracy via
telemedicine and better auto-refraction,
[http://nordic.businessinsider.com/smart-vision-labs-
iphone-p...](http://nordic.businessinsider.com/smart-vision-labs-iphone-
powered-eye-exams-warby-parker-stores-2017-2/)

~~~
rjmorris
An eye exam is more than just getting your prescription, though. They also
screen you for eye diseases and assess your overall eye health, which the
online services don't do.

~~~
criddell
I just had an eye exam last month and it was around $50. That was just for the
prescription and it took around 15 minutes. Everything else was an up charge.
The most expensive option was some kind of scan of my retina for an additional
$40.

------
CalChris
The parent company for Marchon eyeware is VSP insurance company. Fact is I
like their Flexon 623 frames. But I’ll never pay a dime for VSP again. Vision
insurance is like free phone plans. They cost more not less.

