
Behind the Pixel: Google’s First Real Threat to Apple’s iPhone - devhxinc
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-10-04/behind-the-pixel-google-s-first-real-threat-to-apple-s-iphone
======
mikestew
And yet not a single hard detail in the article as to why the headline might
be true. For going on ten years we've seen the "iPhone killers" come and go,
and this article does nothing to tell me why this time it will be different.
Perhaps because it won't be.

Of what very few details the article outlines, they just go on about nifty
hardware. Have we not learned by now that cool hardware still sucks when
hamstrung by crappy software? (A Samsung logo popped in my head while writing
that, don't know why.) Now, Google is no Samsung, but they're a long way from
Apple or even Microsoft on the UX front.

(EDIT: the Pixel phones could be all that, but I wouldn't know it because I'm
currently content with iPhones and have paid no attention to Pixel. Point is,
this article does nothing to relieve my ignorance, which is why I clicked on
the thing to begin with.)

~~~
adamweld
>Now, Google is no Samsung, but they're a long way from Apple or even
Microsoft on the UX front.

Not sure I agree with this. I've been on android for a while, so I'm sure I'm
biased, but stock AOSP Android is pretty much perfect for me. Very minimal and
aesthetically beautiful, but still powerful and customizable.

~~~
erikpukinskis
Honestly, in terms of staff UI design cred Android is in better place than iOS
right now.

With the Sidekick, PalmOS, and then Material Design, Matías Duarte has been
consistently at the forefront of mobile UI design.

Jony Ive is probably the most brilliant consumer electronics hardware designer
in the world, but I have yet to see any indication that he has any idea how to
lead a platform UI design project. I had issues with Scott Forstall's style,
but he was at least leading the charge _somewhere_.

In my opinion, force click, Siri, 3D wallpapers, etc, have not been major
coups in terms of UI finesse. At best Apple is in a holding pattern right now,
I haven't seen any indication that they're pushing the state of the art
outside of the hardware. The animations keep getting flashier and smoother,
but that's not really UI design.

I thought Ive's strong understanding of design methodology would be enough,
but I think maybe software design requires a different way of thinking. I
don't know.

~~~
mhomde
iOS is in a tough position, the road of incremental changes is coming to an
end. The icon-based home screen is showing it's age and will need a revolution
rather than an evolution. You can kinda see Apple dipping it toes into the
widget arena with the notifications area, yet they're probably hesitant to
remake the whole home screen and risk alienating their current users. Tech
savvy people won't mind a new home screen concept but for the "dad's and mom's
out" there it might be a tough sell.

Apple's leadership in UI design the last couple of years has been a little
lackluster. While they seem to be able to iterate, with a few missteps, I'm
less sure about their capability to get a whole revamp done right.

The talent is surely there but the question is whether the leadership and
willing to take the right risks is. It's going to be interesting going
forward, I'm guessing they will have to introduce something widget/tile -ish
in the next phone

~~~
megablast
> The icon-based home screen is showing it's age and will need a revolution
> rather than an evolution.

Why? It is easy, intuitive, and used by millions of people.

Change for changes sake?

~~~
mhomde
Glanceable information on the home screen is useful so users don't have to
open every app, it also changes the home screen from being just "an launcher"
to potentially provide useful information that you might need rather then
being "just a launcher". It's just "one step less" in some scenarios.

Notifications are great for things that need your attention but the home
screen becomes a little more of a seredipious view of app information that can
increase the usefulness and engagement with an app

~~~
j2bax
I think right now using the notifications screen for this 'at a glance' info
and using the home screen for launching full apps, accomplishes the goal you
are seeking.

I would love to see the iPad interface evolve a bit and not look so much like
my phone. I don't feel like they are using all that space as elegantly as they
could be.

~~~
JoBrad
It's getting there, but it's not ideal yet. At a glance means I don't have to
do anything but glance. To see the widgets now, you have to wake up the phone
and then swipe right.

~~~
swift
On recent iPhones, waking up the phone just means picking it up. The swipe
right is still an issue, though; it'd be nice if they could get rid of that.
(Maybe default to the widgets view if there are no notifications?)

------
Fej
What is the draw here?

I have been running my Nexus 5 into the ground (soldered on a new power button
when the original broke) in anticipation of the next Nexus phone. Pixel is no
Nexus.

Seriously, what does this have that the year-old Nexus 6P and 5X don't, other
than incremental hardware improvements? And a massive price hike? Why should I
buy this?

(Seriously, Google? You want $650 for a phone with a 1080p screen? I know
there's benefits to a lower resolution but then why not drop the price? It's
ridiculous.)

My perception is that Google no longer knows what it's doing. Reference Allo
for an even better example. The company can coast on their existing products
but only for so long.

~~~
Veratyr
> what does this have that the year-old Nexus 6P and 5X don't, other than
> incremental hardware improvements?

As someone who owns a 5X:

\- The Pixel is a premium 5" phone, not a budget one. It has a flagship SoC
rather than a mid-tier SoC.

\- The camera is better and more responsive (the camera on the N5X is slow and
annoying).

\- The body isn't plastic, which means there will be less issues with heat and
CPU throttling than on the N5X.

\- I can finally get a phone with a reasonable amount of storage and no bloat.
The 5X only went up to 32GB and had no expansion. Alternatives from Samsung
etc. are mostly carrier locked, unrootable and stuffed with OEM overlays.

\- There's no camera bump, so it can sit on flat surfaces less awkwardly.

\- They actually mentioned this phone during the announcement, unlike the 5X
last year. They might actually pay it some attention in the future.

~~~
technofiend
As always the most compelling thing about the phone is Google's support - fast
releases and minimal carrier bloat. You have a nice list of positives and I'm
not disputing them.

But the feature list for what is now Googles _top_ phone is underwhelming. 4
GB of RAM is barely adequate - it should be 6 GB like the other Snapdragon 821
flagship. No water proofing? That's the new black. Bottom-facing speakers?
Complete regression from the Nexus 6. Including a smoking camera but no
optical image stabilization? Make up your mind - is it a digital camera
competitor or not?

And frankly since there's no waterproofing there's no excuse for a fixed
battery and no sd-card slot. Even some waterproof phones offer those features
now. Google needs to blow Apple away with features rather than aping the
latest iphone.

~~~
Veratyr
> 4 GB of RAM is barely adequate

I'm not disagreeing with you but what makes you say this? I've never owned a
phone with more than 2GB of RAM and I'm not sure what I'm missing out on.

> no optical image stabilization

I trust a software company like Google with EIS, particularly given their work
with HDR+. I owned an iPhone 7 for about a week and loved the stabilisation
Google's app did on my Motion Stills.

> Google needs to blow Apple away with features rather than aping the latest
> iphone.

The impression I got from the announcement is that that's what they see their
assistant being. Personally that doesn't win me over at all but we'll see how
it goes. I could see my mother and her friends all wanting the phone that can
talk to them (and it looks more impressive than Siri).

~~~
technofiend
> I've never owned a phone with more than 2GB of RAM and I'm not sure what I'm
> missing out on.

It's Linux under the hood which will always make use of more memory, but our
phones are slowly migrating towards service platforms. When my phone is fully
kitted out playing Ingress with friends I'm running Slack, Glympse, Zello,
team-specific app(s), Ingress and maps. I want the device snappily switching
between and/or giving cycles to all those apps as needed without being forced
to save state off to my flash storage which is a wasting asset.

I would imagine VR apps will be even more hungry with the large and complex
objects and interactions modeled and displayed.

On EIS yup if that replaces OIS I'm fine with it. The assistant may be really
cool but it won't remain a google-exclusive for long and it doesn't justify a
(in my mind) $200-$300 premium for the phone.

I'll probably pick up the pixel XL when the sales start but as someone who has
been an Android acolyte since my developer's edition G1 came in the mail this
is not a compelling upgrade for me from the Nexus 6, particularly at this
price.

~~~
dottrap
>> I've never owned a phone with more than 2GB of RAM and I'm not sure what
I'm missing out on.

> It's Linux under the hood which will always make use of more memory,

Linux won't really be the beneficiary of all the extra RAM in this case. The
motivation behind the extra RAM is Java.

It is well known (i.e. researched) that garbage collection system performance
is heavily dependent on free RAM. You typically want around 4x the amount of
your peak memory usage to keep the garbage collector speed reasonable. The
more free RAM, the better the performance.

[http://sealedabstract.com/wp-
content/uploads/2013/05/Screen-...](http://sealedabstract.com/wp-
content/uploads/2013/05/Screen-Shot-2013-05-14-at-10.15.29-PM.png)

But having 4x has been a real challenge for mobile and Android over the years,
especially as people want to do more and more with the phones. It also didn't
help that Dalvik and ART are new ground-up implementations of the Java VM
which means a lot of optimizations for garbage collection needed to be
reimplemented from scratch.

The lack of needing to support a garbage collector is a big reason Apple can
get away with shipping far less RAM in their phones which in turn helps keep
their profit margins high.

------
geodel
I think it is just me but I find this 'book me a concert and fancy dinner'
schtick rather boring. May be well off people are so busy and book these
things so often that these virtual assistant really save time if price is of
no concern to them.

~~~
mrspeaker
Does anybody actually use these virtual assistants? They seem like the
bluetooth dongle of the mid-2000s - friends wouldn't let friends use them. Is
it just for people who drive? Or will there be a tipping point when it won't
seem so arrogant barking commands on the subway or in a quiet office?

~~~
yazaddaruvala
Every alarm, timer, and reminder I set (on my phone), are set by voice.

I chose it because "Set an alarm for 8am" really is the best interface to
interact with that subsystem.

~~~
dplgk
I think parent is talking more about:

"Please buy tickets to concert"

"Front row tickets to concert purchased for $500"

"Wait no, buy the cheapest tickets!"

"Cancelling order! Purchased last row tickets for $10"

"Only $10? Well maybe I can spend a little more an not be in the last row"

etc

~~~
inopinatus
This is exactly the kind of exasperating dialogue I've had with underwhelming
organic assistants too. It is not a problem confined to machines. Ergo, the
next step in virtual personal assistants is learning your preferences and
being able to apply them. It's not hard to imagine the following exchange:

"Alexa, book me a flight to Sydney for Wednesday"

Alexa knows that I'm in Melbourne, that I always fly economy class on flights
under three hours, have a strong preference for Oneworld airlines, fly direct
whenever possible, and like to fly in the mornings except between 8am or 10am
on weekdays.

"I found three flights on Wednesday that match your preferences. On your
kitchen screen now. Which one shall I book?"

The next development after that would be intermodal transport scheduling and
calendar awareness: "Alexa, book me travel for the Sydney board meeting".
"Here's an itinerary that matches your diary and preferences."

~~~
kalleboo
That would be lovely, but there's no way that's the next step. The next step
is "I booked a flight with our GreatDeal™ Partner [and you're paying more than
if you had used a discount booking site]"

~~~
inopinatus
I'm not so cynical, in large part because I think you could develop an Alexa
skill _right now_ that does most of what I described.

However, that is besides the point. This was just an illustration of what is
possible if your VPA is a preference-aware negotiation agent.

Of course you are free to choose a closed platform, but it doesn't have to be
that way.

------
neals
I don't like Google because they're gonna use my data against me.

I don't like Apple because it's a walled garden and millions other reasons.

I don't like Samsung because they bloat Android.

I don't like Huawei because I don't trust the Chinese government to not do
stuff to it.

I don't like LG and HTC because the smartphone market is slipping away from
them.

Am I just getting old?

~~~
CaptSpify
I'd kill for an actual linux phone. I hear good things about Ubuntu's phone,
but I've yet to try it.

~~~
confounded
Purism are working on a Debian phone! [https://puri.sm/](https://puri.sm/)

(I wish them luck...)

I bought the BQ Ubuntu tablet. I hate to say it, but it's terrible. You have
to set up a cloud account with Canonical to download or update apps (no reason
given). Most of the apps are pretty bad. It's constantly pinging YouTube and
news websites to show me stuff I don't care about, and can't turn off. No easy
way to set up a VPN. No CalDAV, CardDAV. Difficult to imagine Shuttleworth
himself using one.

Fine for watching films on airplanes, but very little else.

~~~
jstanley
> No easy way to set up a VPN.

That's not true, it's right there in the network settings. I use it. Maybe it
just doesn't support the type of VPN you want to use?

~~~
confounded
I stand corrected!

------
snowwrestler
The corporate structure of Alphabet does not make sense to me.

Nest was broken out as a peer to Google, but now apparently hardware is using
Nest staff and expertise, but hardware is part of Google.

And apparently this new hardware team is going whole-hog after the smartphone
market, which is WAY larger than thermostats and web cams. But Nest is an
Alphabet sub, and hardware is under Google.

And Android needs a "firewall" to protect existing hardware vendor
relationships from the new hardware team. But both Android and hardware remain
under Google, with YouTube and Search.

And there are 2 separate Alphabet subs for biosciences, and 2 separate subs
for finance.

It doesn't look like it's implementing any sort of coherent strategy. Aside
from company politics, why are some programs peers to Google, and others are
subsidiaries of Google?

~~~
ocdtrekkie
I recall news that many of the developers at Nest were basically moving to
Google Hardware. There's a valid question on whether or not Nest will even
produce anything going forward, or if they're legacy support for products that
eventually will be replaced by Google Home equivalents.

~~~
snowwrestler
Good thing Nest got broken out from under Google! Just in time for all its
resources to get sucked back into Google.

------
czhiddy
“The difference with this device is that we started from the beginning,” says
Dave Burke, who runs Android engineering.

Started from scratch, yet the end result looks like a iPhone knockoff from a
random Chinese shanzhai company?

[http://i.imgur.com/LlqaAPO.png](http://i.imgur.com/LlqaAPO.png)

~~~
bitmapbrother
Reminds me of the original iPhone - it was an LG Prada ripoff. I'm sure you
call all phones with a white front iPhone knockoffs.

~~~
pinaceae
totally!

i mean look at it, what is the difference?
[http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2007/06/iphone...](http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2007/06/iphone-
prada-touch-01.jpg)

~~~
kalleboo
The iPhone looks way chunkier and chintzier

------
julianpye
Last week we tried to launch an Android-first app at a major startup
conference with 5000 visitors.

95% of the visitors (startups, entrepreneurs, investors, executives) had
iPhones. We later confirmed this by looking at the network stats and couldn't
believe it. In a country where Android statistically has 80% marketshare. The
Android users loved the product, but we failed because we couldn't generate
word-of-mouth.

For the target audience of the Pixel, this is an uphill battle.

~~~
diminish
Actually that shows a big opportunity exists for startups in Android space.
Clearly the startup world is not where the customers are due to various
reasons.

Go where the customers are, observe what they are doing and make something
they can use.

I truly see a big opportunity. Launching at startup events is wrong unless
your customers are them.

~~~
julianpye
Sure, but potential partners and investors want to use your product and try it
out. If you have Android-first the only thing you can do is you lend them an
Android phone. And then you get 80% feedback on general Android topics and
they boot the phone just to try the app and can't determine all its
implementation and integration potential.

------
djhworld
The price makes me a bit sad tbh

One of the best things about the Nexus range was they offered the Google
vision of android at a reasonable price. The Nexus 4, 5 and 6 were affordable.

I purchased my Nexus 5 for a shade below £300 when it came out, which I
thought was excellent value for money in comparison to how much I had paid for
a Samsung previously.

This Pixel line seems to have abandoned that ideal to compete directly with
the iPhone.

Personally I'd feel very uncomfortable walking around with a £600+ phone.

~~~
drewrv
Absolutely agree. I know there are other cheap android phones but Nexus was
always a good bang for your buck. This is like Toyota discontinuing the
corolla to compete with Maserati.

~~~
lintiness
the phones were great because they were universally unlocked (rare). the
camera on my nexus 5 is trash, however.

~~~
lagadu
Just order your favourite phone from outside the US. We have all of them
unlocked for sale at any major retailer across the pond.

------
mmanfrin
"Their debut signals Google’s push into the $400 billion smartphone hardware
business and shows that the company is willing to risk alienating partners
like Samsung Electronics Co. and LG Electronics Inc. that sell Android-based
phones."

You mean not including the time they bought Motorola?

~~~
falloutx
Google is a like an ADHD kid, one minute they want to conquer Android hardware
market with Motorola, and other days they are so annoyed by hardware that they
sell Motorola to Lenevo.

~~~
bergie
They bought Motorola for the patents, and sold off the rest.

~~~
redial
That's what they are saying now that they sold it.

------
lumenwrites
It blows my mind that there's not a single positive top level comment yet.
Seriously, guys, what's up with the culture of entitlement and complaining?

We're hackers, let's get fucking excited about the new cool gadgets! This
phone is _awesome_.

How about, before nitpicking and criticizing, we take a moment to appreciate
and celebrate the new technology developed by our colleagues?

~~~
Eridrus
The Nexus 5 was amazing, the 5X was acceptable, this.... makes me want another
option.

Maybe you care about the camera, but I barely use mine except as a scanner
replacement when sending documents.

All of the interesting announcements were about everything except the
hardware, which IMO was extremely boring, and they've discontinued their mid-
range line of phones so it's not even clear that you can get the software on
other phones. You could argue this is exactly what Apple does, but that's the
reason I refuse to buy Apple products.

I'm expecting and hoping a flop that causes a return to the spirit, if not the
name, of the Nexus line.

~~~
killerdhmo
Except, mobile phone photography is one of the fastest growing use cases:
[http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/23/arts/international/photos-...](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/23/arts/international/photos-
photos-everywhere.html?_r=0)

Even look at Flickr's top camera usage:
[https://www.flickr.com/cameras](https://www.flickr.com/cameras) (which has a
selection bias towards people who take and upload certain pictures to Flickr)

Think about the number of other places images are taken (and shared!)
Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Snapchat, etc. etc. I think you might be in the
minority when it comes to images.

~~~
Eridrus
I believe it, I'm just sad that there's no option for those like me who are
satisfied with the shitty 5X camera.

------
AaronFriel
I'm saddened by the continued fragmentation.

"Google Assistant" replaces the Google search bar... but only on the Pixel? So
this is yet another Android device that behaves differently from every other.

The exclusive carrier is Verizon. Why not Google Fi?

The default video app is Duo. Why not Hangouts?

Does "Google Now On Tap" get replaced by the assistant for the Pixel? Is that
_just_ for the Pixel?

I don't get it. I don't understand how Google can think this produces a
cohesive, meaningful experience for their users when they keep changing things
or fragmenting their platforms.

Edit: Full disclosure, my only smartphone is a Nexus 5X. I like it, I don't
like Google's platform chaos.

~~~
72deluxe
I see this too. And I have stopped watching I/O yearly due to the incessant
changes of UI every year, undoing what the recommended the previous year
(position of buttons, menus, slide out menus). It is wearying. Nobody would
accept that kind of stunt on other platforms, eg. PC.

They are in a difficult situation though - if they don't announce new stuff,
the short-sighted industry will think they are stagnating, instead of being
robust and reliable and having mature APIs that you can count on not to
change.

~~~
72deluxe
BTW I must say I am happy with Android as a platform and phone (got a Wileyfox
Swift with update ROMs from Cyanogen) but as a developer I find the ping-pong
changes tiring. I'm not here just to bash Android.

------
joezydeco
_“Google is now the seller of record of this phone,”_

And who is the servicer of broken phones? Is there a warranty? Can I get a
customer service agent on a real voice line?

Given Google's track record of hardware they could have answers for all of
this and I _still_ wouldn't own one.

~~~
alexbaker
I've bought a Nexus phone every year since the Nexus One (and a few tablets as
well) and throughout those years have received a few warranty replacements.
One was even a free replacement of a replacement more than a year after the
initial purchase. I always get a human in a chat or phone call without any
effort, and I always get free next day shipping. I bought Nexus protect on my
current phone, and although it is through a third party, when I damaged my
phone the replacement process was basically the same (except I had to pay
$79). I personally think their hardware support is awesome.

------
LeifCarrotson
> Burke says the company will eventually be able to ship its own custom
> “silicon,” a buzzword for customized processors that make devices work
> better.

Silicon is not a buzzword. It is the element with which the processors are
built. Perhaps it's colloquial or jargonistic to refer to processors as
silicon, but it's not a buzzword.

~~~
rayiner
It's synecdoche.

~~~
acchow
I didn't realize that's what synecdoche meant.

Adds some depth to the title of the movie "Synecdoche, New York"

~~~
diyorgasms
I'm not sure depth is the thing that movie lacks. But tack on some more, sure,
why not?

------
baggachipz
I'm sorry, I just don't trust Google hardware efforts anymore. Nothing they've
done indicates that they won't completely abandon this in a year and a half.
It would probably end up in my Google Graveyard sooner rather than later,
right next to my Google TV and Galaxy Nexus with Google Voice.

~~~
cholantesh
Iphones are released at pretty much the same clip as Nexus devices, so I don't
understand that particular complaint.

~~~
Unklejoe
iPhones receive OS updates for like 4 years after release where as most
Android phones seem to be forgotten as soon as the next model comes out. As an
Android user, this is one thing that I have to admit Apple wins at.

Not to mention the fact that Google seems to have a habit of deprecating their
own apps for seemingly no apparent reason.

~~~
redwards510
I've owned iDevices, and they have this curious ability to 'age' themselves
into the dumpster after two years of iOS updates. The latest iOS versions run
incredibly slow (or not at all) on older devices and you are left with
something you can't even flash a custom ROM on.

~~~
Unklejoe
True. I often wonder if it is intentional or if it is just a result of running
software which was designed for faster hardware.

Either way, non removable lithium batteries usually take care of the
obsolescence issue anyway. After two years, devices seem to barely hold enough
charge for an hour.

This is the most frustrating thing for me. I have a three year old HTC M7
which works beautifully (running a stripped down ROM and I avoid all app
updates). However, the battery is starting to get weak, and I’m afraid to take
it apart.

I wish the LG G5 was more competitive. The removable battery is a huge deal to
me, especially now that everything supports rapid charging, which I’m sure
wreaks havoc on batteries.

------
johnward
The camera doesn't stick out the back of the phone and become the main contact
point for all surfaces. This is true innovation :)

~~~
camillomiller
I don't get these recurring jabs at Apple. Why bother? It comes out as some
sort of inferiority complex.

~~~
ihsw
This is actually a jab at Nexus 6P's "visor":

[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b2/Front_and_bac...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b2/Front_and_back_of_the_Nexus_6P.jpg)

Note the large black bar at the top.

It is glass and there are incidents where it cracks, causing unpleasant damage
that is difficult to fix.

------
Unklejoe
Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask, but has there been any information
released regarding whether the bootloader can be unlocked or not?

I guess what I'm really asking is if I will be able to flash a custom "ROM"
and kernel to this. I've heard rumors of Google taking a more aggressive
stance on locking down their hardware, so I'd like to know if there's been any
new information regarding this.

If I can't flash custom software to this, I may get the iPhone or HTC 10
instead. The main attraction to Android phones to me was the fact that you can
flash modified kernels to do things like force fast charge on USB data links,
etc…

~~~
eitally
And imho, the main appeal to the Pixel is that it's Google-controlled and
provides the same benefits as Apple-controlled iPhones do: timely updates,
strong security, things that "just work", tight 1st party ecosystem
integration, etc.

You may or may not be able to flash custom ROMs to you Pixel, but if you
choose not to, you'll probably have a fairly optimal stock Android experience.
If you absolutely have to have custom everything, there are hundreds of other
Android handset options, which is a boon for everyone.

------
wmeredith
I'd like someone to save me from Apple's garbage cloud services, but I just
can't get away from their hardware. It's just too good.

So... Can anyone convince me that this thing is going to be different from the
iPhone killers that are reported on every year in these regurgitated press
releases?

~~~
gotthemwmds
I use all of Apple's cloud services and am perfectly happy. Can you elaborate?
I'm curious.

My only problem with Apple right now is they won't sell me an unlocked iPhone7
Plus. Every single person I talk to at Apple gives me a different story on how
to buy one, but if I show up at the store with money, they won't sell it to
me, or even reserve it. I even offered the store to just hold on to my credit
card for a week or whatever and mail it back to me. They thought I was crazy!
;)

~~~
dpark
I have an unlocked iPhone 7 Plus in my pocket. I bought it from Apple. I gave
them my credit card info and they mailed me a phone. It wasn't really that
complex.

Are you trying to buy a "sim free" phone? I believe those are expected to go
on sale soon.

~~~
gotthemwmds
Can you please go with me to the Seattle or Bellevue Apple Store and help me
make this transaction? I went to both over the weekend and things did not go
well. They didn't seem to understand the basic process you outlined above.

~~~
jitl
All phones sold at Apple stores are unlocked, but they come with an
unactivated carrier SIM. I purchased an iPhone 7 (t-mobile), then popped out
the SIM and put in my old AT&T sim. No problem. I suggest just buying the
t-mobile device and doing the same, if you're looking for a GSM device.

~~~
gotthemwmds
I just want a phone that works. All of those words are confusing.

Seriously though I showed up at Apple with a credit card and a SIM card 48
hours ago and they were not able to sell me a phone. To make it even weirder,
I had the (unopened) phone I wanted in a bag, but it is a "locked" one from
TMobile. I thought that was ancient history.

One day Apple will want my money!

~~~
dpark
What carrier do you want to use the phone with? If, say, you want to use it
with AT&T, just go in and buy an AT&T phone. It will be unlocked. Just swap
out the SIM card in the phone with the one you already have if you don't want
to activate the provided SIM card for some reason.

~~~
gotthemwmds
I thought I could do that but s/AT&T/TMobile. 3 TMobile retail stores have
refused to unlock my phone. It's still unopened in a box. I paid full retail
price for it and have never had a TMobile account, which is where they get
confused.

~~~
dpark
Did you buy your phone from Apple or from TMobile? If you bought it from
Apple, it should be unlocked already. You should be able to drop in your SIM
and go.

In fact, I did this two years ago with the 6 Plus. I bought a T-Mobile phone
from Apple because they were unlocked (at the time the others weren't, even if
purchased directly from Apple) and used it with my AT&T SIM.

------
MrQuincle
Let's not go into a fight about Google vs Apple, but consider the landscape.

1) It is interesting to note that, different from the desktop market a decade
ago, there is no monopoly by a single provider for smartphone tech. This means
that the upcoming challengers try to challenge using the same tech rather than
come up with something really innovative. That there is no monopoly in this
space, might actually reduce the speed of innovation! These parties are happy
to compete with each other on familiar grounds. To me this comes across as a
gentlemen's agreement in which knights establish the boundaries of their
fight. Google says: it's gonna be phones, don't be afraid we come with weapons
that you're not anticipating.

2) If we limit ourselves to smartphones, what would real innovation look like?
For me it's twofold: a) getting rid of the other things in my pocket. I
currently carry: keys, a wallet, a public transport card, a customer loyalty
card, a squash subscription card, and a driver license mainly as ID. b) never
worry about charging. The former can solved by actually making use of the
existing technology. The latter needs a wireless charging infrastructure that
works on a distance and a few R&D years ([http://www.wi-
charge.com/](http://www.wi-charge.com/)).

~~~
brownbat
a) getting rid of the other things in my pocket

As an incremental step, I'm seeing more cell phone cases with a slot to store
credit cards, cash, and ID.

I know, ideally they'd be gone though.

------
guelo
The actual product announcement page
[https://blog.google/products/pixel/introducing-pixel-our-
new...](https://blog.google/products/pixel/introducing-pixel-our-new-phone-
made-google/)

------
sorenjan
I think the most unfortunate thing about this being so expensive and
underwhelming is that now there's no good alternative for people that don't
want to spend that kind of money on a phone to have an Android phone without
an OEM skin and with quick updates to new Android versions. This premium phone
is only guaranteed updates for two years, and the update situation in Android
land is still appalling. Why isn't anyone working on a better driver model for
smart phones like for the PC? I want the latest version of Android without any
kind of skin, but I don't see any real alternative for me anymore. How can the
company behind Android be satisfied with this situation?

------
Nursie
Why, in 2016, is anyone still talking about "iPhone killers" or threats to the
iPhone?

Outside the US it is not the dominant platform. Sure, it has a good share of
the market, but it's not like Apple even outsell Samsung's Galaxy range.

~~~
V-2
Not just the US, it dominates in other Commonwealth/Anglosaxon countries as
well, plus Japan, France, Scandinavia - quite a chunk of the world, and in a
great many countries both platforms are roughly head-to-head

------
j_m_b
One thing I like about the iPhone is the strong emphasis on security. Many
features in the iPhone are built around it such as password inputs eventually
stop working after a certain amount of tries, plane tickets show up on home
screen without needing to unlock the phone and default encryption. I like
knowing that if I lock my phone, not even the FBI can get into it. This gives
me confidence to use services such as Apple pay. How does the Google Pixel
compare in security?

------
buro9
So far, aside from the camera (apparently excellent), everything I've heard
about why the Pixel is so great comes down to software.

So far, of everything software that people have enthused about with the
Pixel... none of that software shines if you only have Google Apps accounts.

Aside from the camera, why would anyone with a Google Apps account buy this?

(I'm referring to the Allo AI assistent, etc which only has limited
functionality for Google Apps users, as does Now, Trips, Spaces, App Sharing,
Play Music Family, etc.)

~~~
saiko-chriskun
I run copperhead and don't even have google anything on my android :P

~~~
nextos
Sadly getting onto copperhead now is gonna be expensive...

~~~
saiko-chriskun
You can get an unlocked 5x off amazon for $300.

------
joshstrange
The graphic showing rating of camera's is super disingenuous [0]

The gap from 88-92 is actually shorter than the gap between 86-89.

[0]
[https://www.dropbox.com/s/ehp0sn8w04fpf2q/Screenshot%202016-...](https://www.dropbox.com/s/ehp0sn8w04fpf2q/Screenshot%202016-10-04%2015.57.32.png?dl=0)

~~~
yathern
I really think this is grasping at straws. So you think they placed the
'Pixel' data point a little too far to the right? I didn't really get the
impression that this was supposed to be super accurate and quantitative chart
of their comparative performances - just a little graphic showing which phones
it scored ahead of.

~~~
joshstrange
I'm not saying the whole presentation is null and void I'm saying that graphic
is plain wrong. You don't get to lay out data on a line like that and plot
every other phone the correct relativity apart and then put your phone out
further than the +4 gain when your phone only has +3 gain. This presentation
wasn't slapped together by some intern there is no excuse.

------
lmedinas
The interesting part will be for how long will the Phone + Software be
supported. Now that the price is the same I think it's fair the support should
be the same as the iPhone.

~~~
sandis
Specs page [1] states 2 years for OS updates and 3 for security patches, so
not even close.

[1]
[https://store.google.com/product/pixel_phone](https://store.google.com/product/pixel_phone)

~~~
LandoCalrissian
That's really weak.

~~~
pcurve
It's weak but i think it's probably there to cover their ass. In reality,
support will probably continue for much longer period.

~~~
vic20forever
Nexus 5:

\- First released: October 31, 2013

\- Last feature update: Marshmallow: October 5, 2015

\- Last security update:

According to Google[1]: Nexus devices get security patches for at least 3
years from when the device first became available, or at least 18 months from
when the Google Store last sold the device, whichever is longer.

So, worst case scenario: October 2016 is the last security patch. We might get
more, depending on when the Google Store last sold the Nexus 5, but I don't
know when that was.

[1]
[https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705#nexus_device...](https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705#nexus_devices)

------
hocuspocus
The pricing has been copied 1:1 from that of the iPhone 7. Whether in USD,
CAD, GBP or EUR: exact same figures.

~~~
saddestcatever
Good note. Funny how many users are mentioning price as their main reason for
dismissing the Pixel

~~~
dingaling
> Funny how many users are mentioning price as their main reason for
> dismissing the Pixel

It's easy to make an excellent phone to retail for $700.

It's much less easy to make a _good_ phone to retail for $300.

This means that a lot of people, probably the majority, have to make-do with
sub-par, or second-previous-generation from eBay, or order something from the
Chinese market.

Hence the cynicism when Google unveiled yet another $700 phone. It's like
another 200 mph supercar from Bugatti, pretty to see and technically fantastic
but irrelevant to the market as a whole. Next time Google, how about taking-on
a challenge?

~~~
pcurve
I think Google is forced to charge $649 because of their relative experience
in hardware, which exacerbates their already high labor cost. Perhaps they
could've charged $499, but it would've resulted in an accounting loss.

Perhaps the next iteration of Pixel will be cheaper as they ramp up on
hardware expertise and reign in on cost.

~~~
theinternetman
> relative experience in hardware, which exacerbates their already high labor
> cost

But everyone in the thread is saying Google didn't really manufacture it and
it's just a rebranded HTC device

------
Animats
It's a real threat to handset makers who use Android. Their OS supplier is now
competing with them.

Look for a third ecosystem to come out of China.

------
anilgulecha
The camera on pixel is the killer. The low-light photos + the image
stabilization is amazing.

~~~
Fricken
They worked pretty hard to whoop Apple in the camera department. The HDR looks
great, 4k video, unlimited online full-res storage through Google photos, it's
the quickest camera ever, and yeah, I can't wait to play around with image
stabilized video- I've been waiting to see that in a camera for a long time,
it addresses a huge problem.

~~~
redial
The iPhone 6S Plus had OIS for videos last year. I'm sure it wasn't the first
either.

------
kentosi
With the trend of bigger smartphones I'm really surprised by the sizes of 5"
and 5.5".

~~~
bluehawk
I'm not. My nexus 6 was fun when it was new, but I've kinda grown tired of how
enormous it is. I feel like 5.5 would be perfect for me.

~~~
josteink
I have a 5.2" (Nexus 5X) and I still want something smaller.

~~~
wlesieutre
I switched from a Z3 Compact to an iPhone SE and the 4" screen is great.

~~~
jasonkostempski
I was starting to think i was the last person alive that wanted this. Please
keep making noise. I really hope the next lineup has a 4".

~~~
philsnow
I'm really hoping the 'tock' for the iphone 7 will include an SE version of it

~~~
wlesieutre
My hope is for an alternating fall/spring release schedule. New flagships for
the large and extra large market every September/October, and a new medium
sized phone built around the same innards in March/April.

"Small" designation deliberately omitted. That's what I'd call the iPhone 1
through 4S, but it doesn't seem likely that we'll get any new ones.

------
RRRA
They both locked enough people in an ecosystem where they control the
competition well enough that they can justify asking twice as much as their
device is worth...

I was hoping to upgrade a nexus 5 I paid 399 CAD and this year they want to
charge 899 CAD for the base model!

This is insane and I just ordered a OnePlus 3 (519CAD) hoping that we'll see
more competition instead of reliving the 90s desktop OS situation...

~~~
bhouston
I just ordered a OnePlus 3 today too (was upgrading also from a Nexus 5) after
being disappointed by the Pixel's price. Funny coincidence.

(BTW the LeEco Le Pro 3 also seemed good, has slightly higher specs that
OnePlus 3.)

------
HugoDaniel
Now that the nexus is gone what alternatives exist for developer friendly
phones ?

~~~
pasbesoin
Haven't heard/read about this aspect, yet. Pixels are more locked down?

~~~
archiepeach
One of the things that makes a phone developer-friendly is how accessible it
is from a price perspective, i.e. not a £599 price tag.

~~~
mankyd
Is that true? Usually developer friendly means not-carrier-locked, which has
always commanded a _higher_ price tag.

Meanwhile, iPhones have no cheap developer option either. When has developer
equated with cheap?

~~~
archiepeach
You're right, not being carrier-locked is another attribute of a developer-
friendly phone. I wasn't saying developer equates with cheap, but typically
"developer" phones are secondary devices that people feel comfortable hacking
on without risking destroying their daily driver. Therefore it wouldn't make a
huge amount of sense to pay for a top-of-the-range phone when it will likely
be a secondary device.

------
richardboegli
You cannot be serious Google? $1079AUD for Google Pixel when it's $650US....At
current conversion would be $853AUD. Of course there is shipping, projected
volume of sales in Australia etc... but $226 in shipping is a bit much...
[https://store.google.com/config/pixel_phone](https://store.google.com/config/pixel_phone)

~~~
NolF
You are forgetting taxes which puts it to $981AUD, and the cost of customer
protection requirements (warranty periods etc) which are more onerous in
Australia than US.

------
Someone
_" The Pixel phones will also be the first to run the next version of Android,
Nougat 7.1 […] Everyone is treated the same, including Rick’s team"_

Treated the same, to a limit, I guess. If everyone is treated the same, they
wouldn't be able to guarantee to be the first ones out with Nougat.

Let's see how short or long the lead start is they will give their own phones.

~~~
redwards510
Interestingly, during the presentation today, the woman said "running Nougat",
no mention of 7.1

~~~
EddieRingle
7.1 is a maintenance release of Nougat.

------
satysin
All sounds good on paper (or video) but £599 entry price?! Now that is
_courage_.

~~~
arthurfm
Also, US buyers get a free Daydream VR headset (worth £69) if they pre-order,
whereas UK buyers don't. Very annoying especially since a 128GB Pixel XL costs
£819!

~~~
satysin
Yeah I fail to see why I would get this over a Galaxy or iPhone (if OS doesn't
matter). They claim the best phone camera yet it doesn't have OIS so it isn't
going to be the best for video I doubt.

~~~
arthurfm
> They claim the best phone camera yet it doesn't have OIS

The video stabilization looked really good in the demo at the Google event [1]
despite using the smartphone's gyroscope [2] to do what the camera would do if
it had OIS.

[1]
[https://youtu.be/q4y0KOeXViI?t=55m20s](https://youtu.be/q4y0KOeXViI?t=55m20s)

[2] [http://www.theverge.com/a/google-pixel-phone-new-hardware-
in...](http://www.theverge.com/a/google-pixel-phone-new-hardware-
interview-2016)

> Though there’s no optical image stabilization, Google tied the camera to the
> gyroscope to eliminate the hand-shake “jelly” effect in video.

~~~
satysin
A neat trick but it won't be as good as proper OIS. Considering the price I
can't believe they were unable to put in a camera with OIS.

IMHO it is a damn shame to see the Nexus line replaced with such high end
devices. I can't see them selling that all that well. They are priced way too
high.

------
akshayB
Is the new phone water resistant? I can't find anything in the details

~~~
Sgt_Apone
Not as far as I could tell. I'm sure they would have included it in their ad
copy if it is.

------
okket
For a "threat to Apple's iPhone" article the content is pretty low on camera
specs. Not to mention a comparison to the rest of Apple's extremely integrated
and streamlined hardware/software.

------
glenndebacker
So does this come without tracking and more privacy because for that price you
can't play the "they need to recoup the costs through user data" card.

Apple it seems can do it for devices in those price range.

~~~
andybak
I'd be interested in being corrected on this but here's my understanding.

Assuming you don't use actively use Google services (i.e. use someone else for
search or email) and you say 'no' to every question about tracking during
setup then as far as I'm aware the only tracking that remains is the use of
the radio to collect anonymised wifi and cell location data to use for A-GPS.
And I think it's possible to disable this too (although it's probably not
immediately obvious where the setting is).

I guess the Play Store tracks usage but you could use F-Droid.

I'm sure there is some residual tracking after the above is taken into account
but the devil is in the detail. Is it anonmymised or personal? Can you view
and potentially delete it via your Google profile?

I'm genuinely interested as my privacy is a cost/benefit tradeoff and I want
to make an informed decision rather than accept hand-wavey "everything you do
is tracked" claims.

------
krzyk
Biggest problem with this phone is how it looks, and it looks like an iPhone,
which for me is not a good looking phone. Why the bottom is so big? Why does
it have all those rounded corners?

------
kneel
Features on phones seem to have plateaued.

I can't justify spending $650 on the newest phone for a slightly better
camera.

My current iphone 6 is just fine, the battery is waning but not unbearably so.

Does the pixel offer anything that justifies the price? Or would a consumer be
better off just purchasing an older generation smartphone?

------
wdeasy
This is such BS. Android fanboy here and this phone is junk. Everything they
showed off can be done on every Android phone out there

------
laktak
What kind of privacy features can you expect from a Google phone?

------
gjolund
All it needs to have in order to be a threat is a 3.5mm port.

------
JohnnyConatus
The thing people often overlook is the value of iMessage. I switched to
Android for a few months and using plain SMS with my friends was a definite
downgrade. True, we could use a 3rd party chat network, but everyone seems to
prefer a different one.

Also, hard to quantify, but there was an element of social cost in that every
knew I no longer using an iphone because the texts weren't blue. HN tends to
dismiss such things but branding/advertising are important to perception of
value, like it or not.

------
Touche
Preorder is available:
[https://store.google.com/product/pixel_phone](https://store.google.com/product/pixel_phone)

~~~
IshKebab
Minimum £600 is quite insane. I think they will drop the price rather quickly.

~~~
tarancato
No, they won't.

------
jug
It seems roughly equivalent to a fairly recent iPhone. I see nothing like
being officially water resistant like the iPhone 7, and seemingly no now
widely lauded portrait mode thanks to dual cameras and its depth perception.
The iPhone 7 also seems to use an (in normal use) more powerful CPU.

So maybe it's more like a premium priced iPhone 6s or so. Outside of Apple's
ecosystem. How in the world would that be a "real threat"? The 32 GB Pixel is
expected to land at $650, the (now finally) 32 GB iPhone 6s will cost you
$550. It'll cost you $100 more and it'll make you lose your ecosystem!

It looks like a method for Google to stop the drain to Apple through an
alluring Apple design at best, not something that will do much in the other
direction.

As an iPhone user, this doesn't interest me in the slightest, other than an
"academical" interest where it's interesting to see Google finally seeing the
light. Now let's see if Google will introduce a certification program so
people can look at a label in the specs of any Android phone and know that the
smartphone will not be loaded with crap. Let the OEM's be still free to do it,
but let people have an easier time to vote with their money.

------
piyush_soni
Big time Nexus fan (and owner or N5, 6P) here. One thing that is of big
concern for me now is that previously (until the Nexus line) their only OS was
Android AOSP, and making it better was their sole motive. Now, it's in
Google's best interest to market their exclusive Pixel phones, and
differentiate Pixel Android from the 'other' Android, the AOSP. The whole
Android community might suffer because of this.

------
skc
Aren't they playing right into Apple's hands by pricing it like an Apple
product?

Google will never, and I mean NEVER, be able to compete with Apple on fit and
finish as well as the all round user experience with which Apple are able to
justify their seemingly outlandish pricing.

If anything, people will now scrutinize fit and finish even more closely at
this price range and that's the last thing they need.

------
m-p-3
I don't think Google is a threat to anyone but themselves with these prices.

------
trymas
That price though.. :(

If pixel is completely replacing nexus, then it's a complete bummer, as one of
nexus' best points were very good hardware in reasonably good package for half
the price as flagship competition (galaxy, iphone). OTOH, it's maybe a good
business move if they manage to take galaxy users to buy pixel, Google will
make a good buck for it.

------
Gustomaximus
The main reason I see/hear people coming across from Apple to Android is they
get a quality handset at half the price. Given this pricing is inline with
Apple, I cant see as something that will seriously threaten other than
crowding the market a bit more.

I still dont understand why Google didn't keep pushing the mid-range nexus.
They were onto such a sweet spot.

------
gstn
Whether it's a nice phone or not, I'm not tempted. I left Android due to an
inability to get o/s updates. Android depends on the cell carrier (Bell
Canada, in my case) for o/s updates, a model that doesn't work well, in my
opinion. With Apple the o/s is always up to date.

~~~
guelo
Not true for this phone.

~~~
MBCook
Do you have a source for that? It doesn't have a track record (for obvious
reasons).

Has Google promised the carriers don't get to interfere this time?

~~~
guelo
"Pixel ships with the newest Android operating system, Android 7.1 Nougat.
Phones will get software and security updates as soon as they’re available,
directly from Google. " [https://blog.google/products/pixel/introducing-pixel-
our-new...](https://blog.google/products/pixel/introducing-pixel-our-new-
phone-made-google/)

It's the same as Nexus phones, carriers did not interfere with them.

~~~
gergles
But they still did. The "Verizon" Galaxy Nexus was basically a completely
different phone from the other Galaxy Nexus versions and didn't get the same
support or updates.

~~~
guelo
Yea that Verizon Nexus was the least Nexus-y of them all. One of the reasons I
swore off Verizon for good. But that was 4 years ago and hasn't been an issue
with other Nexii since.

------
6stringmerc
Hm, same price as iPhone7, according to Wired (will have to see). I'm
interested in leaving iOS but on a more mid-tier smart phone level. Very
compelling design and size though in my opinion, would definitely be in the
market if budget was available. Well, pending some reviews.

------
Ologn
The bottom of the article says the phone is assembled by HTC. I suppose the
difference between this and the Google Nexus phones is that Google is no
longer doing hardware design in collaboration with outside manufacturers.
However, collaboration in hardware assembly continues.

~~~
eitally
Yes It is moving from an ODM/JDM relationship to Google being the OEM and HTC
being the EMS.

~~~
ionwake
You managed to use 5 acronyms in one sentence. Unfortunately even though I
have been an programmer for a while I was unable to understand any of them,
also googling is not that helpful. Could you elaborate?

~~~
kogepathic
ODM: original device manufacturer

JDM: joint device manufacturer

OEM: original equipment manufacturer

EMS: electronics manufacturing service

------
delegate
The reference to Nest isn't a big plus in my book.

I've only heard bad things about it -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpsMkLaEiOY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpsMkLaEiOY)

This phone isn't going to kill the iPhone - in fact it would take a big
screwup on the part of Apple for people to start migrating away from its
products. Not that Apple is incapable of screwing up, but so far they've
sailed their ship pretty well.

Apart from the hardware, there's the whole ecosystem of app developers,
programming environments, cloud services.. Ultimately it's about who can
attract the more talented developers - and that is a lot more difficult than
snapping a faster CPU or better camera in your phone.

------
chx
Apple manufactures fashion items which also facilitate communication. You
can't threaten a fashion item. It doesn't work that way. Technological
comparisons also don't apply. Only some truly epic fail on Apple's end would
threaten them.

------
guelo
The product announcement page [https://blog.google/products/pixel/introducing-
pixel-our-new...](https://blog.google/products/pixel/introducing-pixel-our-
new-phone-made-google/)

~~~
Touche
Info on how to preorder is vague. Says it's available to preorder today,
doesn't say where or how.

~~~
vetinari
> Pixel is available for pre-order today starting at $649 in the U.S., U.K.,
> Canada, Germany and Australia. Pre-orders in India will begin October 13.

In the Google Store.

However, availability in 5 countries? Google, you want to take on iPhone with
that? Apple phones are available globally. Even with previous Nexuses, they
were available in many countries because the manufacturers did sell them, not
because Google. Google sold them only with few countries; even in EU, they
bothered only with about 14 of 28 (depending on product).

~~~
Sgt_Apone
I'm really bummed that this thing is $899 in Canada. I wish they would have
actually competed on price with the iPhone...

------
pmcollins
Anything to put more competitive pressure on Apple to release a VR
implementation is good IMO.

------
dfritz
They finally did it! The $1000 smartphone!

Thankfully, for only $649, you can get the 32 GB version, which has the same
storage capacity as the Nexus 5 released in october 2013. Oh yes, the Nexus 5
was sold for $150 less.

------
HugoDaniel
Now that the nexus is gone what alternatives are for developer friendly phones
?

~~~
veeti
OnePlus? I think that the Nexus 6P will age well if you can get it for cheap
soon.

There isn't any indication that these phones will be any less developer
friendly than the Nexus phones, if you don't have a problem with the price.

------
speeder
Still sad it doesn't have a hardware keyboard.

I really, really, really want a good phone with hardware keyboard.

Even better if the dialer is not a common app, and is something you can access
immediately even if the "user OS" crash.

~~~
VikingCoder
Hardware keyboard is never, ever coming back. Ever.

~~~
CaptSpify
[https://www.yahoo.com/tech/one-blackberry-upcoming-
smartphon...](https://www.yahoo.com/tech/one-blackberry-upcoming-smartphones-
classic-215438332.html)

~~~
VikingCoder
Remind me when it's available in stores. We'll see.

------
satysin
Camera doesn't have OIS. That is a disappointment considering the price.

------
ngrilly
I see several references to good video stabilization, but never mention if
it's 1080p or 4k, since I didn't see any mention to OIS and sensor resolution
is almost the same as 4k (at least the width) how can it effectively
compensate to electronic video stabilization in 4k video?

(comment copy-pasted from [https://www.dxomark.com/Mobiles/Pixel-smartphone-
camera-revi...](https://www.dxomark.com/Mobiles/Pixel-smartphone-camera-
review-At-the-top))

------
mdasen
It looks like a good device, but is it that special?

At $649, it's in iPhone 7 and Galaxy S7 territory.

It doesn't have an impressive curved display like the Galaxy S7 Edge so the
5.5" Pixel is likely to be larger than a 5.5" Galaxy S7 Edge.

The Snapdragon 821 is probably the best processor they could get, but it
doesn't stand up well against an iPhone 7 (or even older iPhones on common
tasks like web browsing). So, that doesn't bring anything impressive to the
table that I couldn't get before.

Google has just said that the display is "Hi-Definition" in their presentation
slide. Looking at one of their videos, it looks like 441ppi on the 5" which
means 1080p and 534ppi on the 5.5" so the 5.5" matches the S7 Edge, but the 5"
is a lesser display than the Galaxy S7. Not sure it makes much of a
difference, but it doesn't best a competitor at the same price.

The Galaxy S7 and many other devices come with 4GB of RAM.

There doesn't seem to be anything in this device that's so exciting with the
possible exception of the camera. But how much of that is software? The
DxOMark review notes that "Pixel’s biggest innovation is an enhanced version
of Google’s HDR+ multi-image capability. . .the Pixel pushes the capability
further than we’ve seen before". So, is this simply software that Google is
going to keep proprietary in order to sell its device? That's certainly fair
game, but it points to exclusive software, not hardware being the draw.

Unlimited photo and video storage is nice, but that really doesn't have
anything to do with the device. That's just google offering an exclusive
service with purchase.

To me, it mostly looks like what I can get in competitive phones, maybe with
some exclusive software. It's not faster (constrained by the best Qualcomm can
muster). The camera is marginally better than an iPhone 7 (though no word on
the iPhone 7 Plus). The display is competitive with or worse than a Galaxy S7
[Edge].

I think Google has a better chance if they start developing their own chips as
the article alludes to. Apple has a large single-code speed advantage that's
particularly noticeable on the web
([https://twitter.com/codinghorror/status/775777790494846976](https://twitter.com/codinghorror/status/775777790494846976)).

The Pixel looks fine, but it doesn't have something amazingly impressive. It's
good, but nothing that truly makes me think that Google has outdone itself. If
I were in the market for a new Android phone, I'd consider it. But the OnePlus
3 seems to have most of the same in a much cheaper package. The Galaxy S7 Edge
seems to have a cooler package for much the same equipment. Plus, I guess my
concern is whether Google is going to care about the Pixel phone 9 months from
now. Maybe this is a huge new push. But OnHub seems to be abandoned for this
new Made By Google thing after a very short time and generally Google has a
bit of a history of not caring about things that don't immediately gain
traction. So, maybe a couple years from now it'll look more attractive.

EDIT: looking at the specs, it's 8.5mm thick at the thickest which is how they
avoid the camera bump compared to an iPhone 7 at 7.1mm thick.

EDIT 2: I'm very glad that Google is getting into the hardware game. I think
they can create great devices and help push the industry forward. I think
competition will be great for consumers. I think there are lots of areas (like
WiFi) which need to be made better. But it's hard to beat the best smartphones
with your first model. I'm glad Google is creating a phone, but smartphones
aren't low-hanging fruit to create something remarkably better.

~~~
shostack
The unlimited storage is linked to the device in that for many people that is
the biggest storage hog. Stuff it in the cloud and 128GB goes MUCH further.

------
jordache
Why do they presume there is a risk of alienating other Android device makers?
Those non Apple device makers are too deep in the Android universe with no
viable alternative.

------
rullopat
Before owning an iPhone, I was very happy with an (at the time) expensive
Samsung Galaxy Nexus.

But then... Google dropped updates for this phone after just 18 months and the
microUSB crappy plastic connector started to fall apart and don't charge. It
seems that now Google is selling premium hardware (finally), but what about
software updates? I get about 4 years of updates on an iPhone now, who knows
what are the plans for this Pixel.

------
masada4evr
Pixel's "integrated assistant" just smells too much like Internet Explorer
embedded into Windows. I like Google Now, but I don't need something like an
AI interface and everything clumped together. There are some things I don't
use, and I'd like the choice to have it not get in the way.

------
davidf18
Google's business model is based on gathering data from users and hence by
definition will not be as secure to use as Apple which derives their income
from the high margins on the phones they sell instead of gathering data on us
to monetize. Hence, no matter what you say, Google software based phones will
not be as secure as Apple ones nor will they protect your privacy as well as
Apple does.

------
mtgx
They have a live presentation now:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4y0KOeXViI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4y0KOeXViI)

------
pbz
After using a phone with stereo speakers (
[http://cdn01.androidauthority.net/wp-
content/uploads/2015/08...](http://cdn01.androidauthority.net/wp-
content/uploads/2015/08/Moto_X_Style_Black_Front_Back.jpg) ) there's no way
I'm going back to mono. What's frustrating is that the bottom part looks
perfect for a second speaker.

~~~
krzyk
What's the benefit of stereo speakers if they are centimeters from each other?
Aren't those going to sound like mono one?

~~~
gcp
Sound travels slowly, and your ears are very sensitive to inter-ear phase
differences.

It won't sound like mono.

------
wodenokoto
Given that Samsung, LG and others are now competing with Google directly,
maybe Firefox OS was too early.

Maybe we'll actually start seeing Tizen headsets from Samsung.

------
Taylor_OD
My theory is the only reason people switch from iPhones is that they no longer
want an iPhone. There are plenty of other options but unless someone is driven
to it by flaws from the iPhone then they are not going to switch. For me it
was battery life, lack of customization, and my iphone/itunes not playing nice
with a windows pc.

------
frik
Stock Android is pretty broken in China.

A lot of things like connecting to a public WiFi (which tries to connect to a
Google page which doesn't work), Google PlayStore, Google Maps, email apps,
etc.

In China you need an Android that doesn't come preloaded with Google stuff or
an iPhone which just works fine incl the AppStore.

It's very strange that Google doesn't offer at least basic support there.

------
samfisher83
I think this doesn't make sense from a business perspective. The cell phone
like the PC will become a commodity item. Why get into a business with a lot
of competitors. No real differentiation. Google should be trying to get google
search into every phone which they are already doing. That is where they make
their crazy margins and strength.

------
tn13
Android has already won. It is the hardware that has not managed to challenge
hardware. But then Android's key selling point has always been about "choice".
Blackberry like Android phones ? check. Android phones that feel like Windows
UI ? Check, $30 phones? check, phones that look more like gaming devices ?
check.

~~~
simonh
I'm a dedicated iOS user and don't own any Android devices, but you're quite
right. Google's objective with Android was to ensure that there would always
be an open mobile platform with a standard browser and access to Google
services without a platform gatekeeper getting in the way. Mission
accomplished. The mere existence of Android keeps Apple honest in a lot of
ways.

Because their goals are different, Apple and Google can both win in Mobile.
Android's success hasn't stopped Apple becoming the most valuable company in
the world and Apple's success hasn't stopped Android serving many market
segments Apple has no interest in addressing. As consumers, regardless of
which platform we prefer, we've all won.

------
pmontra
The first reaction of a friend of mine, Android developer, was like "Maybe I'm
buying an iPhone 7 on leasing, because the Nexus are dead and the Pixel costs
so much". Then he realized that the iPhone costs even more. He's not buying
anything at the moment. He's got plenty of phones after all.

------
dudul
Anyone knows if this is gonna be the "prime" phone of choice for Project Fi in
replacement of the Nexus 6P and 5X?

~~~
JshWright
It's going to be the only phone in replacement of the 6P and 5X. It seems they
aren't interested in mid-range devices anymore.

~~~
hyperbovine
That's crazy. $650 buy-in for what is for most people a somewhat risky
wireless service proposition. Given their past track record of 86ing products
this can't bode well.

~~~
Sargos
The Pixel isn't locked to Fi. It can be used on any carrier. Fi is also pay as
you go which means you can leave at any time. It's really not risky at all
even if they shut it down tomorrow.

~~~
Terribledactyl
I think the parent was stating that Pixel phones will soon be the only way to
actually get into Fi. For now, you can start service if you bring a 6p or 5x
but who knows how long they'll support that.

------
stronglikedan
Besides the obvious economic benefits to the companies that make these phones,
is there any real benefit to the user of not having a user replaceable
battery? I feel really comfortable keeping an extra battery on standby for
emergencies, especially since their charge capacity usually greatly diminishes
in about a year or so.

------
theinternetman
Surprised they went with a form factor so similar to Samsung and the iPhone 6,
just looks pretty dated really.

Think now would have been a good opportunity to go for something less rounded.
An iPhone 4 style sharp design would probably end up looking futuristic next
to all the faceless rounded blobs the market is full of.

------
loeg
So will it come with non-removable carrier crapware or not? That's the main
selling point of the iphone for me.

~~~
wnevets
nexus phones never did AFAIK

~~~
67726e
I've had the 4, 5, and currently the 5X. Never had any crapware, always got
updates within a week or so of releases. Insofar as I'm aware it's totally
stock.

------
finishingmove
From the pricing, and the fact that the blue version is available only in the
US, this seems to be an "iPhone for Muricans that don't want an iPhone" (for
whatever hissy fit). Now they have a choice, _exactly_ like between
Republicans and Democrats. Enjoy your HTC Pixels.

------
Lorin
I am just hoping for a smaller phone like the iPhone SE. I never understood
the drive towards huge screens that prevent proper single handed usage. I'm
still using a Blackberry Q10 because it's a productivity monster - no time for
games.

------
losteverything
Probably the wrong time to say but.

Is or has there been any way I could purchase a new phone assign it my number
and have 2 phones ringing at same time? I would have a side by side comparison
in each pocket?

Like I buy pants. But 4 at the store and return 3

~~~
danielsju6
Hangouts dialer + Google Voice / Project Fi. That's my setup. Got 4 phone
numbers, all buzz all of my devices including my computers.

~~~
losteverything
Text too?

~~~
danielsju6
yep

------
lewisl9029
No wireless charging is rather disappointing for me. Other than those from
Samsung, are there any options left for a recent flagship with built-in
wireless charging?

Maybe I'll just hold out on my Nexus 5 for a couple more years...

------
fail2fail2ban
I'm liking my Nexus 6 but it feels a bit big at times so I think the trend
towards 5 or 5.5 is a good thing. Not sure about the price though, my 6 would
have to completely croak before I upgrade from it.

------
xpose2000
I would get this phone for the fast charging and automatic OS updates alone.

------
monochromatic
An autoplaying video with sound and a broken pause button? No thanks.

------
talideon
What Google need to do next is to finally get out from under Qualcomm. They're
a big part of the reason why older hardware can't be supported by newer
versions of Android.

------
binthere
The hardware isn't really that impressive. iPhone still has the best hardware
in my opinion. I'm not even talking about performance, battery, etc, I'm
talking about usability.

------
newman314
My killer feature for the iPhone is seamless upgrades. Until Android has this
(Play Services don't count), it's not going to be a real threat IMO.

Vertical integration FTW.

~~~
andybak
Just to quibble - Android upgrades are fairly seamless. It's just that they
are rarer than hen's teeth. :-(

------
HugoDaniel
Are they keeping the nexus line or is this a replacement ?

~~~
Eridrus
It's a replacement, which leaves me wondering what I will do when it comes
time to replace my 5X since these are almost double the price.

~~~
TheAdamist
my first thought was to buy a spare 5X soon.

------
agumonkey
Can't find any info about Google Assistant requirements (Android version,
Phone model). I hope it won't require Nougat or even Android M.

------
amyjess
I'm seriously disappointed in this.

Fortunately, I'm not feeling the need to replace my Nexus 5X yet. Maybe next
summer when the Moto G5 comes out, I'll see if it's worth switching -- or
maybe I'll wait until 2018 and get a Moto G6, but I'm not getting a Pixel.

And if some key apps I use ever end up getting ported to Windows 10 Mobile,
I'll consider Microsoft for my next device. But that'll be a ways off: I rely
on Lyft to get around, so I can't use a phone that has no Lyft app.

~~~
louhike
Even though you'll probably do not get much support? Microsoft seems to have
abandoned the mobile. As far as I know, they won't make any new phones
themselves. And I'm not sure other manufacturer will go on making Windows 10
phones as they don't seem to sell well.

------
tychuz
As an iPhone user, this doesn't look as an attractive option. For half the
iPhone price - maybe, but right now - nope.

------
grandalf
I've been using a BLU R1 HD with Amazon lock screen ads and if I were Apple
I'd be _very_ worried. It's a very nice, fast phone with a solid camera.

After using Android for a few weeks I would be pretty happy using it instead
of IOS. Among top tier apps and Google provided apps it's definitely now on
par with IOS. $59 for a phone is unbelievable.

I just got my iPhone 7 and while it's a great phone and has a slightly higher
build quality, it's more than 10x the price.

------
NetStrikeForce
From: [https://blog.google/products/pixel/introducing-pixel-our-
new...](https://blog.google/products/pixel/introducing-pixel-our-new-phone-
made-google/)

> Pixel comes in two sizes, 5” or 5.5”, and three colors: Very Silver, Quite
> Black and our limited edition for the U.S. only, Really Blue.

What's your problem Google? You keep being the only big company still pulling
this "U.S. only" stuff.

~~~
acchow
Is this a US politics thing? Blue = Democrats?

~~~
qntty
definitely not, just a special color

~~~
NetStrikeForce
Which makes me wonder what's the business case behind it.

I bet Americans don't care much if blue is available in other countries or
not, for the rest of the world is a tiny "because fuck you, that's why".

I'm happy now that the prices are too high, otherwise I might be giving them
my money :-)

------
sidcool
Had it been water resistant/proof, it would have posed a serious threat to
iPhone. Other specs are quite good.

------
gthtjtkt
No unlockable bootloader for Verizon. Dang...

~~~
thrill
Google is three times the market cap of Verizon. I think I know how to solve
this.

~~~
criddell
Since Verizon seems to be transitioning to an advertising company, I doubt
regulators would let Google buy it.

~~~
thrill
You're probably right - look at the value such regulatory concern (in its
infinite wisdom) brought to Yahoo shareholders by complicating concerns of
Microsoft's (non)acquisition of Yahoo oh-so-long-ago.

------
tf2manu994
I realise that not everyone is in the US, but Verizon Exclusive, really?

Edit: Ah, I was mistaken. Contract exclusive, still outright.

Oops!

~~~
_kyran
Exclusive for a contract. Outright on the google store is an option.

~~~
tracker1
I'm with verizon anyway.. but just switched to a 6p about 6 months ago, so
will hold off a while... nice to see a Verizon option out of the box...
getting my 6p setup with Verizon as a byod wasn't fun.

------
dnprock
Google CEO: At the heart of these efforts is the goal to build a Google
assistant. Yes, an assistant!

------
HalfwayToDice
Snapdragon 821 means it's slower than grandmother's iPhone 6 from a few years
ago.

------
kermittd
I've never owned an android but I'm happy to see a first party google phone.

------
joshmn
MY SMALL HANDS REJOICE!

Sorry I'm so absolutely excited.

------
coolspot
That basement conference room tho...

------
draw_down
> Google’s First Real Threat to Apple’s iPhone

That's funny, I thought all the ones before it were "iPhone killers". Hmmmmm.

------
yCloser
one word: EXPENSIVE

------
esotericsean
Apple innovates while other companies imitate. This looks exactly like an
iPhone without a home button. I'm sure the hardware is fast and it's probably
a very good phone. But what does it do _better_ than iPhone? Unless it runs
iOS, there's no way Android will ever catch up to iPhone.

~~~
andybak
You can't stretch your imagination to think of _any_ reason someone might
prefer another mobile OS to iOS - even if you disagree?

So all non-iOS users are either deluded, misinformed or purchasing solely on
price?

------
ljf
<vaguely off topic rant about Android 7.1 - but relevant as they control the
hardware and specs here>

Why is Google still insisting (with 7.1) that the 3 navigation keys (menu,
home and back) need to be on screen - either wasting real-estate or annoyingly
hidden - requiring a swipe to expose them?

Old Android phones used to have hardware or software keys that were off the
bottom of the screen - and in fact my Xiaomi Mi Note Pro still does - it frees
the entire screen for content. If the '3 keys' regularly changed meaning I
could see the need to have them 'on screen' but they don't.

~~~
spankalee
To turn this around: why did the old phones insist that the hardware buttons
take up valuable face space that could be used for more screen, where the
buttons could be dynamically drawn and repositioned based on the content and
orientation of the phone.

~~~
ljf
But is the giant black bar across the bottom of this screen a good use of
screen> [https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/d1FGcK-
lOXmwvt9UR7OYJwaOSTg...](https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/d1FGcK-
lOXmwvt9UR7OYJwaOSTg=/cdn0.vox-
cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/6974889/Screenshot_20160822-064854.0.png) ?

~~~
ajross
Not in all cases. Which is why apps have an API where they can turn it off if
they want to reclaim that space for their own use.

Interestingly, no on ever figured out how to implement this trick when apps
wanted to use their hardware buttons for extra screen space. I suspect this is
a big reason for this particular compromise.

~~~
ljf
Maybe, but look at the bezel at the bottom of the Pixel, plenty of room for
software buttons, we just don't have full edge to edge screens yet in all
directions. So with plenty of room we are choosing to waste screen.

------
chirau
I'd have thought that with innovation and greater availability of components,
smartphones would become cheaper. Instead, I experience quite the opposite
with all these new devices.

~~~
kbenson
Using this as evidence for that view is sort of like saying you're surprised
at the relatively increasing expensiveness of cars after the press release
about the new BMW 7 series, or Tesla Model S. Big sexy press releases are for
high-end products. Consumer grade, cheaper offerings generally don't get as
much media since they are lower margin products, but they do exist[1].

1: [http://www.androidcentral.com/best-cheap-android-
phones](http://www.androidcentral.com/best-cheap-android-phones)

~~~
shimon
Seriously. You can get a decent smartphone, new and unlocked, for like $50
now. The market has just expanded hugely so of course entries like this, which
vie for "best phone in the world" status, are going to be higher price.

------
vamur
No threat to either iPhone or Note 7 and incredibly overpriced. Pixel is
basically a mid-range phone for high-end price. OnePlus 3 for $400 in mid-
range or Meizu M3 Note for $140 in lower end are much better deals.

~~~
khedoros1
Note 7: Huge screen. 5" is a practical limit for me.

iPhone: I want direct filesystem access and 3rd-party app stores, app
sideloading, etc. Also, to not have to re-purchase the apps I already have.

The smaller Pixel is more interesting to me than either the Note 7 or iPhone
7. Of course, I've got a weird combination of requirements for phones, and
they go against the direction that most of the market is headed, so I'd have
to agree that these aren't likely to make a huge dent in the market. They're
phones I'll be considering for my next upgrade, though.

~~~
vamur
In that case you should consider Galaxy S7, it has somewhat smaller dimensions
than Pixel, but has a bigger screen.

BTW, this is another con for the Pixel a 5" is a DOA for most users these
days.

~~~
khedoros1
Do you remember the Duke controller on the original Xbox? It was usable but
not comfortable, and a year or two after the console's release the market
pressed for smaller controls. Microsoft started shipping the model sold in
Japan.

I feel the same way about phones. 5"\+ is usable, but only with an
uncomfortable degree of strain in my hands. I honestly don't see why the
"bigger is better" mindset rules the market. I just see that every decent
handset out there is a usability compromise.

Thank you for pointing out the S7, though. It's only slightly larger than my
current phone, and it would be near the top of my list if I were to go out and
buy a new one tomorrow.

------
PhasmaFelis
> _Google’s First Real Threat to Apple’s iPhone_

Haha, what? Google already thoroughly beat the iPhone: they made Android. This
is just a ridiculously overwrought way to say "Google is making a new phone".

------
stuxnet79
The new Raspian update is also called Pixel, I wonder if Google cares enough
to sue the hell out of whoever decided on that name.

~~~
xigency
It's confusing enough that they recycled their own product name, the
Chromebook Pixel.

