
Techcrunchywag - sant0sk1
http://mattmaroon.com/?p=536
======
thomasmallen
Just curious, being a Valley outsider (Washingtonian): How common is the
startup that finds the middle ground between working to the bone (trying
desperately to be the next Google/Yahoo/Microsoft and secure massive VC) and
the expect-nothing-back, RMS-enamored open source group?

Because that's where I'd like to be: A tech shop that cares about turning a
profit, but that's equally concerned with innovation and just having a good
time. It seems to me that many people affiliated with the startup scene are
way too dollar-driven or take themselves too seriously.

~~~
SwellJoe
So, I know you're asking more from an "approach to business" perspective than
a "how much Open Source goes on in the valley" perspective...but, I figured
I'd chime in, anyway:

I've been surprised by how little Open Source happens in the valley, at least
among the "young, rich and good looking" startup set that shows up all the
time on TC and Valleywag. I'm somewhat disappointed by it, as well. Folks are
building everything they do on Free and Open Source Software. It's polite to
give something back, even if the license was written before web apps were a
presence, and so you aren't legally obligated to do so. I don't want that to
sound _too_ harsh or too inclusive. There are tons of startups, in the valley
and elsewhere, that _do_ take part in Open Source development, but I'd say for
every one that I meet at events, I meet five startup founders that have never
contributed a line of code to Open Source, even though their apps are built
with PHP, Ruby, Perl, or Python, using vast swaths of Open Source library
code, are checked into git or Subversion, and run on top of Linux. This could
just be selection bias, since it seems like a lot of OSS folks are more likely
to be bootstrapping outside of the valley.

Anyway, we're an Open Source project (Webmin/Virtualmin/Usermin) turned
startup. It has positives and negatives, but I don't think one can say, "You
can't be the next Google/Yahoo/Microsoft, if you're running a fun Open Source
oriented company"...we don't know that yet. It's still early in the history of
OSS startups. Red Hat does OK. MySQL AB sold to Sun for ~$500 million,
XenSource to Citrix for ~$300...Not Google/Yahoo/MS money, but nothing to
sneeze at. Making money on Open Source is harder than on proprietary software,
in general. But, you get some awesome benefits. Like, how many of our
competitors can claim _millions_ of users? Not a single one. While our
software has been downloaded over 12 million times from a single source (and
OSS ends up in all sorts of funny places without showing up on the download
counter, because it gets packaged, included with distros and hardware
products, comes from local mirrors, etc.). And, let's face it, when you have a
million people looking at your software on a daily basis, you pretty much
can't help but make money if you're trying. Free is a powerful game changer in
most markets, and changing the game might be mandatory if you're working in an
established market against strong competitors.

From the perspective of raising money, investors don't have a problem with it,
and most understand OSS. It may even be a positive angle for them, assuming
you still have a business model after factoring in, "But it's free!"

~~~
davidw
> I've been surprised by how little Open Source happens in the valley,

I'm not. I lived there during the last boom, and worked at an open source
company, Linuxcare. Pretty much anyone who was anyone at that company in terms
of actual open source contributions came from elsewhere (well, there were a
few exceptions, but not many). Our strongest teams were in Australia, Canada
and Italy.

I think the reason is fairly straightforward: the valley is expensive, and
there are lots of startups going on. There is less of a "tinkering with
something just for the pure pleasure/heck of it" spirit. Maybe that goes on
too, but the next thought is "huh, this _is_ pretty cool, I wonder how I can
monetize it?". It's also easy to get hired doing reasonably interesting stuff,
leading to less time on your own experimenting, and larger opportunity costs
for those who don't pursue a job.

------
zain
Despite what a couple bloggers might say, I don't think anyone is actually
_angry_ at "Team Cyprus" for having a vacation. More so, it is a feeling of
jealousy/admiration that they were able to enjoy themselves at a time when
many of us are in state of worry and fear.

Calling it the end of web 2.0 might be too much, but you have to appreciate
the juxtaposition in some of the most beautiful and successful people in the
valley partying on an island paradise while the world that made them so
successful is crashing down.

~~~
mattmaroon
But that's the thing, nothing in the valley came "crashing down" except maybe
the net worth of some investors, who just went from obscenely wealthy to very
wealthy. And maybe TechCrunch's standards.

Buildings are all still standing. Almost every company that was in business
yesterday is still in business today. There've been a few layoffs, but those
were due to issues stemming a while back.

Everything is, for the most part, the way it was two weeks ago. It'd be one
thing if there was an 8.2 Earthquake. But the Dow dropping?

~~~
tdavis
Matt, I'm worried about you. I don't think your level of alarm is sufficient.
When those buildings do start falling over, you won't be prepared! It
basically goes Dow drop -> Earthquake -> Zombies. Those of us who realize that
are just trying really hard to help our fellow Americans by posting article
after unsubstantiated article with our thoughts on how exactly the world is
about to end. Stop undermining this important public service, sir!

~~~
mattmaroon
Wow, I hadn't thought about Zombies. Thanks.

~~~
tdavis
No prob. Just remember, shoot them in the head, okay? Otherwise, you'll just
embarrass yourself. After careful _analysis_ of various _sciences_ I have
determined we have 17-19.5 days to prepare for Zombie Judgement Day. Don't
fuck this up.

~~~
mattmaroon
Hmm, with the Brady Bill and all that, I'm not sure I can get a shotgun in
that amount of time. There really should be laws allowing for looser gun
control whenever Zombies are a near-term possibility.

~~~
tdavis
I agree, but nobody ever said life would be easy. Baseball bats, golf clubs,
these things work in the meantime. I mean, sooner or later your neighbor with
a shotgun is going to get his face eaten, at which point you can grab his.
Pistols work too (.45 or high caliber recommended) in the short term.

~~~
einarvollset
What's wrong with a good old fashioned stake through the heart? I know
commodities are falling, but fuck, lead is still pricey!

~~~
tdavis
_sigh_ amateurs! We're talking Zombies here, not Vampires. Vampire Judgement
Day isn't for another 287 days.

~~~
mattmaroon
Plus I'm far too lazy to go around trying to trap them so as they cannot eat
my brain while I experiment with stakes. I require a projectile for Zombie
killing, otherwise I might as well just give up and join them.

~~~
tdavis
Do that and the terrorists win. The zombie terrorists.

------
mcargian
I agree, the content on techcrunch continues to tend towards random wild
opinion instead of tech startup coverage. From Arrington's summer of hate for
twitter, to the current sky is falling, its becoming impossible to stay
interested.

~~~
andyking
It's in danger of coming out of my Google Reader, I've already got plenty of
other sources for startup and tech news in there and I'd rather read the
personal blogs of people with interesting opinions than the mass-produced
tripe being churned out by TechCrunch at present. TC is wearing out my "J"
button and I can't afford another. There's a credit crunch on, you know.

~~~
sant0sk1
I actually just removed it from my Google Reader a few hours ago. Got sick of
filtering out all the noise and figured all the good stuff will float to the
front page of HN anyways.

~~~
mariorz
Oh like this story you mean? Thanks for bringing this to HN btw.

------
volida
_"least get a heads-up on a Turkish vacation"_

I'd like you to correct that. Cyprus is GREEK! It has been for the past 3000
years.

Welcome to my home country.

~~~
ivankirigin
Isn't Cyprus the most heavily militarized land in the world, being contested
by the turks, greeks, and locals? <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus>

"The island is de facto partitioned into four main parts:[4]

    
    
        * the area under the effective control of the Republic of Cyprus, in the south of the island;
        * the Turkish-occupied area in the north,[5] calling itself the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (recognized only by Turkey);
        * the United Nations-controlled Green Line, separating the two; and
        * two British Sovereign Base Areas (Akrotiri and Dhekelia).[6]"

~~~
volida
Unfortunately, like you said the 37% is occupied since the 1974 invasion.
Greek-Cypriots were raped and forced out of their homes and their land and
they are 80% of the population.

Cyprus won its independece in 1960 from the British (who have been on the
island since late 18th century).

The Turks came to the island for the first time on 15th century.

The history of the island is totally Greek so if someone is going to refer to
the island then at least should do it correctly cause otherwise is only doing
propaganda and helping the wrong information to be known.

Attempts are made that the political situation is resolved but I am not very
optimistic.

~~~
mattmaroon
Well, if the part they were vacationing in is technically Turkish, then it was
a Turkish vacation. That's what I read somewhere, though I have no idea if it
is true.

~~~
volida
So because there are 34 million Spanish speakers in US I am going to say US is
Spanish?

There are 3 million Greeks in United States but If I come to US I suppose I'd
say I am going to Greece?

The only excuse to call it a turkish party is if there was a Turk amongst
them. Otherwise is wrong and irritating.

Otherwise, the only reasonable way to refer to it, so not to provoke, is call
it a Cyprus party.

------
fallentimes
How do people feel about banning Techcrunch for a week on an experiment basis?
Afterwards - Vote. This is what happens when dollar signs get in the way of
building something fucking cool or useful.

 _Complete speculation_ , but I feel that newer people tend to vote up
Techcrunch articles (regardless of topic) because they've heard of it before.

~~~
alaskamiller
I think we should stop banning sites as a solution to moderation.

All this TC backlash is getting somewhat ridiculous but at the same time it is
what it is. There's plenty of tech news sites out there but they all report on
the same news because they all read the same feeds and have access to the same
scoops. The only way to differentiate is to editorialize the news. It's much
the same as 24 hour cable news.

But choosing to write 746 word blog posts or pounding TC with all these
comments or upvoting these things to #1 is the real problem HN has. I really
wish people would just let these minor things go.

Stop upvoting LAME stories. Stop upvoting whiney blog posts ABOUT lame
stories. A bit of self control is a lot more powerful than censoring websites.

~~~
mariorz
Too bad the karma leader-board/system doesn't really encourage self-control.
Not that I'm in favor of banning anything, but I do think something is clearly
not working when this is the top-story on HN.

~~~
alaskamiller
What if we do away with the leaderboard?

------
martythemaniak
I like Matt's blog, he brings a much needed bit of realism to places like HN
without going into Uncov's over-the-top contrarianism.

