
This Could Be the End of Facebook - imartin2k
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/10/this-could-be-the-end-of-facebook-hive-podcast
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gjvc
I don't go a bundle on articles like this but really, there are some excellent
points made here.

This quote alone is worth the read. “The damage done to organizations in
crises isn’t the crisis itself — it’s how you handle the crisis,”. While it
sounds like the distillation of countless racks of airport bookshop self-help
and management books, do read it closely -- it's saying the damage occurs as a
result of actions taken by the organization itself. In my experience, this is
forgotten all-too-often.

“There’s only one thing you have to remember: you have to overcorrect."
Decisive execution silents many critics and impresses the rest. Regular
readers of HN will recall the times when big-name sites on the web have had
multi-hour outages, and have journaled their progress in real-time for people
to view, and this transparency has been applauded.

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mtgx
The problem with Facebook is that _it_ has taken the major role in deciding
what people get to see. It has taken the responsibility of "curating"
everyone's experiences on Facebook.

So now the company can't really turn around and say "hey, we aren't
responsible for what people post or read on our platform."

I actually don't think private companies should be having a role in showing
people the "truth" on user-generated content platforms. What I'm saying is
that _they_ decided that this was their role a long time ago, but now that
they got in trouble for not doing a great job at that, they pretend that was
never their role in the first place.

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mg74
I did listen to the podcast. Galloway's view is IMO pretty much the old media
perspective: If only the media had banded together, Google and FB would have
been forced to pay for the content and old media would have been saved. He
completely ignores the perspective that the supply of free content has grown
exponentially over the last decade, while my time to consume media has pretty
much stayed constant. I might pay (and do) for SOME old media content, but the
days of them being the gatekeepers are long over.

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allcentury
I'm not sure I see the causal relationship pointed out by the article. J&J's
products, on paper, killed 3 people and no one in their right mind was going
to risk being killed just because they had a headache. They recognized
immediately that by not solving this issue for the consumer they risked
tremendous losses. James Burke took a huge step and not only squashed the
potential risk of his products but actually made them even safer.

What lives did FB put at risk here? If there's even an analogy to J&J it's
that a few claims on the bottles label weren't true for _some_ of the consumer
base.

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jimnotgym
I suppose it could be argued that losing democracy often results in
significant loss of life and a reduction in everyone's quality of life.

~~~
chronid
Blaming Facebook for "loss of democracy" would be ridiculous.

Democracy is being lost when you start having low turnouts. When citizens lose
interest in the matter of the state. When certain positions essentially always
stay in the same family(ies). When there is zero confidence in the ability of
the politicians to run the country. When it does not matter who you would
vote, because the end result (for you) will always be the same.

Loss of democracy is a process, not an event.

~~~
jimnotgym
What about when a mass media service that is pushing propaganda? Does that not
subvert democracy?

~~~
chronid
Isn't pushing propaganda what mass media do all the time? So are we looking at
the pot (the "old school" mass media) calling the kettle (facebook&co) black?
Paladins of freedom (if you ignore the obvious conflict of interest) and
democracy (if their ideas are your ideas or somewhat similar), indeed.

At least Facebook, differently from "old school" mass media (granting for the
sake of the argument that facebook is a mass media "entity") had no _actual_
intent to push propaganda. It sold ads. To the wrong people? Maybe (granting
for the sake of the argument that its selling ads to those people moved
votes).

Democracy has been decaying from the start. It's decaying even faster now, but
people putting the blame on facebook and the crazy guy that got elected
president in the last round make me laugh. Sorry. :)

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everdev
Deleted my FB account years ago. 0 regrets.

~~~
AndrewOMartin
For people so resistant to social media, those who aren't on Facebook appear
remarkably content to brag about it in the comments sections of other sites.

This may of course just be confirmation bias (it often is) as I'd never notice
those who aren't on Fb and don't mention it.

~~~
imartin2k
I think that is the logical consequence. If one stops using Facebook, one
somewhat is an outsider in a world which is highly rel on Facebook. Bragging
a) offers a certain type of status (let's be honest about this), but b) also
is an attempt to make others to join, which offers the outlook of a world
which is not so reliant on Facebook anymore.

~~~
Yetanfou
I don't think the world is 'highly rel[iant] on Facebook', not by a long
stretch. Facebook has made its way into pockets of the world and established a
firm hold there which makes it look like this to those within those pockets.
For those outside - mostly consisting of people who never joined the 'social
media' craze - the thought of something like Facebook being essential in some
way is alien, their continued existence without any sense of marginalisation
being proof of the validity of their stance. For recent Facebook (et al)
survivors this is probably harder, they'll need to convince themselves they
did the right thing in leaving the bubble.

If you subject the concept of Facebook to some critical thought it does become
clear that those outside of the bubble have the most logical attitude:
Facebook has the potential to turn its users' lives into real live "Truman
shows" [1] with each user playing the role of "Truman" in their own right
while their contacts - who also get to be "Truman" in turn - play the role of
the supporting actors.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Truman_Show](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Truman_Show)

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kapauldo
The only way this ends Facebook if a class action lawsuit where all citizens
are the class is filed, and the damages are loss of democratic election. I
don't see it happening, facebook will be fine.

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twobyfour
Not sure I agree with the hypothesis about the impact on Facebook, but it's an
interesting theory to consider.

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greedy_buffer
One could even go as far as calling the title clickbait.

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hnlurker
Tamper evident, not tamper proof. Meh.

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dominotw
What about the companies they own. Watsapp, insta ect ?

Is the stock still worth the price?

