
How To Get Banned From PyCon - craigkerstiens
http://term.ie/blog/how-to-get-banned-from-pycon/
======
NateDad
Let me sum up:

How to get banned from PyCon:

    
    
       1. Get drunk
       2. Heckle a female presenter during a public presentation
       3. Light up a pipe full of weed in the middle of the audience
    

The rest of the article is irrelevant.

~~~
olgeni
At least the guy didn't wear a Rails T-shirt...

------
jacobian
FYI, here's PyCon's official statement on this incident:
[http://pycon.blogspot.com/2013/03/pycons-response-to-
inaprop...](http://pycon.blogspot.com/2013/03/pycons-response-to-
inapropriate.html).

I think it may answer some of the questions people have here; if you have
additional questions please email me (jacob@jacobian.org) and I'll do my best
to answer 'em.

------
mkr-hn
Let me help:

> _For example, during one of the talks on Sunday a woman took a photograph of
> two men who had been joking to each other by lightly sexualizing some
> computer jargon and she tweeted about it citing their remarks as offensive_

Jokes along the lines of "my dick is pythonic" may be hilarious among your
python-hacking friends, but saying it in a space where you don't know who's
listening and what they've gone through was not a good idea.

> _On the offensive remark I have very few details, but those I was given was
> that it was something like “you’re the hottest.” That doesn’t sound very bad
> to me but I suppose that could have been a polite paraphrasing of what I
> said_

There are many women for whom that's the low end of the sexual harassment they
endure. It is pretty tame, relatively speaking, but another straw on the back
in a culture that condones much worse.

> _Gray areas. Guys are pretty likely to make dick jokes when in the company
> of like-minded individuals, how far from conference grounds should they be
> before that becomes okay?_

Speak for yourself. I find it horribly inappropriate in anything approaching a
professional setting. Basically, you seem to have limited perspective on the
other half of the population, and a large part of your own. This is a great
chance to learn.

~~~
toki5
I think your tone here is a little more combative than the article deserves.

>If anything, I hope talking about it reduces these sorts of incidents without
anybody feeling like their rights are being reduced as well.

This (along with >I'm not fighting the decision to ban me) read to me like a
guy who wants to spark a dialogue on what should be considered appropriate at
these events.

Context is a huge issue here. I wouldn't come into any hacker-culture event
with an expectation of professionalism and maturity -- maybe I'm not the
majority.

What is the majority for PyCon?

~~~
mkr-hn
> _I think your tone here is a little more combative than the article
> deserves._

It's entirely possible it sounds combative. It's not intentional.

> _Context is a huge issue here. I wouldn't come into any hacker-culture event
> with an expectation of professionalism and maturity -- maybe I'm not the
> majority._

A big part of professionalism is avoiding certain low-value behaviors because
some people you might like to get along with are bothered by said behaviors.
Professionalism doesn't have to mean putting on a suit and spouting buzzwords.

~~~
toki5
>A big part of professionalism is avoiding certain low-value behaviors because
some people you might like to get along with are bothered by said behaviors.

Which is something I personally wouldn't expect at a hacker-culture
convention.

------
cbs
Conferences are a minefield. Conflicting opinions of if a particular
conference should be, is, and what qualifies as, a "professional work
environment" run rampant.

When you have everyone attending because it's necessary and/or just a break
from the office, they have a professional setting because people are not
excited to be there. I see this in the business domain (not-tech) conferences
all the time, any recreation happens completely separate from the conference.

Tech conferences get tech enthusiasts. Suddenly people actually want to be
there and have fun with the other attendees. An easy example is DEFCON, people
treat it like a party with talks, because for over a decade it was
unambiguously a party with talks.

Problems are multiplied when people want to relax standards of professionalism
on _some_ axis but maintain it on others (or even ratchet it up beyond what
people are used to in their own offices). Clearly defining socially feasible
expectations of behavior and communicating that to attendees never happens,
then "incidents" occur.

~~~
silencio
> An easy example is DEFCON, people treat it like a party with talks, because
> for over a decade it was unambiguously a party with talks.

I would like to believe that even a party is possible without harassing or
discriminating against other people. I don't think it has anything to do with
trying to be a "professional" work environment. I just want to see it as being
respectful to people around you all the time, everywhere. Fully believing
that, I have never ever found a desire to hit on or make derogatory comments
to another man unprovoked, put boobs on a presentation slide, or grab
someone's crotch even while incredibly drunk, outside of where my partner is
concerned when we're in private. I find it incredibly difficult to deal with
the fact that I've encountered many men that think doing any of that is
perfectly normal until someone says otherwise.

Sadly, I don't think defcon has ever met that standard so I haven't attended
except with friends in a very long time and I've always swore off unofficial
and after-conference events. Plenty of good people but it's always those
couple rotten apples that like to be disrespectful...

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dylanvee
Google cache:
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://term.ie/blog/how-
to-get-banned-from-pycon/&hl=en&strip=1)

------
someone13
If I can put my 2c in here...

I think that one of the major issues facing conferences is the distinction
between professionalism and private life. The way one behaves with good
friends is very distinct from how one behaves in a group of strangers, which
is distinct from how one behaves with your co-workers or other professional
relationships. I think that the mixed culture of a conference might exacerbate
this problem: despite the fact that you're attending with friends, and perhaps
even going out for drinks, it's not the same as being in a solely social
setting.

If I'm with my friends, I know what jokes are appropriate, and which ones
aren't - I've had the experience to do that. On the other hand, if I'm at a
conference, someone nearby could have a bad reaction to a comment that my
friends wouldn't react to - people are different, and an "innocent dick joke"
to a friend could really bother someone else.

I don't pretend to say that this is the sole problem, or even a real solution,
but I think it might be worth recognizing.

~~~
RougeFemme
Good point - I had never thought of it as friends vs. non-friends before -
just professional vs. non-professional. So maybe the filter should be "is this
something I would say _around_ a stranger regardless of whether the
environment is professional or non-professional?" Still, for far too may, I
think the answer might still be yes. It's as if people think there is some
sort of sound-proofing around them - or don't care that there _isn't_.

------
theevocater
So wait, this guy was smoking some weed (I assume) in the middle of a con and
got banned. Why is this even questioned? Whether you agree with smoking weed
or not, he committed a crime during a PyCon event.

~~~
toki5
Nobody's questioning it. I'm not sure where that impression came from.

~~~
haven
I'm questioning it. The behavior in question seems alcohol-spawned. If alcohol
is tolerated it seems bizarre to treat cannabis draconianly.

If cannabis use is legal in the state, there is no prosecutable crime. Federal
cannabis drug law is not enforced against cannabis users, only those who sell
it and thereby more directly touch on interstate commerce.

If breaking unenforced federal law is ban-able behavior, then better ban
everyone.

I think the unfortunate thing is that we all break federal law every day.
(Most of us at least violate the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. Ever made a GET
request potentially in violation of an API's ToS?) Scary thing is, the feds
actually prosecute under the CFAA.

~~~
theevocater
see [http://pycon.blogspot.com/2013/03/pycons-response-to-
inaprop...](http://pycon.blogspot.com/2013/03/pycons-response-to-
inapropriate.html)

------
rachbelaid
For being in the room, I have to admit that I have been shocked by the words.
Not because it was a tech conference or the code of conduct but because but
it's NOT A WAY of speaking anywhere and specially in public with or without
presence of woman. Maybe I m too old school coming from the old continent
anyway...

I appreciate the honesty of his post and to admit his fault publicly. But I
guess that having somebody banned many years will make think some peoples for
the next pycon about how to behave in public. Maybe I shouldn't but a part of
myself still feel sorry for him.

Something I learned from professional event, if you don't handle well the
booze then watch out your drinking to avoid of being a fool.

I hope that he won't move to ruby before 2015.

------
Smudge
> I realize a line needs to be drawn somewhere, and in this case that line was
> chosen at me.

When you're the only one to cross a particular line among many other people,
don't be surprised when you get called out. The lines may be fuzzy, sure, or
it might be a pretty clear-cut case (such as, smoking weed in a crowded
audience during a tech talk), but regardless you should try to have an idea of
how your actions might affect those around you.

As a thought exercise, ask yourself if it would be okay for _everyone_ to be
doing what you are currently doing. Say, heckling the presenter, or using
illicit substances, or even just talking to the person next to you. If an
audience full of people heckling, smoking up, or chattering to each other
would be counter-productive to the presenter's ability to present and/or an
individual's enjoyment of the event, maybe you should consider not doing it
yourself.

------
haven
I absolutely understand not tolerating sexism or other bigotry, but a three
year ban for cannabis use seems excessive. Ask him to take it outside?

~~~
cpeterso
If cannabis use is illegal where the conference is held, the conference
organizers might be responsible for attendees' smoking.

------
teilo
Gee, who knew that smoking illegal drugs at a conference would get you banned?

------
tapatio
He should not censor himself. If a person doesn't like what he/she is hearing
he/she can just go somewhere else. Nobody is forcing him/her to stand next to
him and to listen to his sex jokes.

~~~
NateDad
Women should not have to stay sequestered in their own homes because some men
are inconsiderate assholes.

How would you feel if you were at a convention populated mostly by 7' tall gay
weight lifters, and one of them shouted "Hey, nice ass!" at you? I bet you'd
feel pretty damn uncomfortable. That's pretty much how it feels to be a woman,
not just at these conventions, but in the world at large.

Note: I am a 6'1 175 pound male. It's hard for me to conceive of what it's
like to be a woman who is 5'2" and 120 pounds... that's why the 7' tall gay
weightlifter analogy... it's the only translation that works in my head.
Seriously, think about it. They're way bigger than you, way stronger than you,
they think you have a tasty ass (or not, but for some reason they feel the
need to sexualize you), and you definitely are not interested in them... and
they're all around you all the time.

Also note: I'm not actually trying to say real gay people want your ass. They
probably don't.

~~~
mkr-hn
Role reversal isn't effective in these kinds of discussions.

