

Norway: an Eden with wifi - bleakgadfly
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/5749fbb8-100d-11e1-a468-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1e9fRYOFZ

======
vetler
We still complain.

About the high prices. How short the summer is. The cold. The rain. The snow.
All the people on welfare. That we can't buy beer after 18:00 om weekdays and
20:00 on Saturdays (and not at all on Sundays).

Norway might not be very exciting, though. After all, we're only 5 million
people, which is like half of Paris.

Although I don't work there anymore, Opera is hiring[0], and it has a
multinational workforce and English is the working language.

Other benefits not mentioned in the article is 5 weeks paid vacation and
Norwegian management style[1].

[0]: <http://www.opera.com/company/jobs/> [1]:
[http://www.worldbusinessculture.com/Norwegian-Management-
Sty...](http://www.worldbusinessculture.com/Norwegian-Management-Style.html)

~~~
EiZei
Honestly I have never failed to meet people complaining about prices anywhere
and as far as weather goes even the Russians and Lithuanians seem to do that.

That being said I wish I was a Finnish taxi driver in Norway instead of a
Finnish taxi driver in Finland. ;(

~~~
iaskwhy
Slightly (or completely) off-topic but you really are a taxi driver? I'm
curious why you read HN and how you found it.

~~~
Willwhatley
For the same reason that pizza delivery drivers (ahem) do. The Internet is
wide open, and even aspirational hackers and wantrapreneurs can benefit from
lessons learned. I read pg's essays starting in 2006.

~~~
iaskwhy
I try to convert everyone I know to some of the topics found here, it's indeed
very useful mainly in times like these where a job is something not available
for everyone. I really like seeing all these different people reading HN.

------
patrickk
Remarkable story of an Iraqi geologist who helped Norway spread the oil wealth
around:

[http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/99680a04-92a0-11de-b63b-00144...](http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/99680a04-92a0-11de-b63b-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1eBlRc5lt)

~~~
zacharypinter
And the related planet money podcast:

[http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/08/26/139972557/the-
frid...](http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/08/26/139972557/the-friday-
podcast-norways-got-advice-for-libya)

------
barredo
> “We’ve become spoiled,” one Norwegian told me. “Lazy,” said another.
> “Petroholics,” diagnosed a third."

Does the Norwegian society as a whole feel this way? What about other oil-
prosperous small countries such as the Emirates or Kuwait? Are the cases
comparables?

What are the Norwegian govt plans for the long-time future when their oil is
over? (it's long for that, i know).

~~~
MoreMoschops
"What about other oil-prosperous small countries such as the Emirates or
Kuwait?"

For a long time, when a country became rich through oil, there were two paths.
One was a fascist socialism in which the population was bought off with the
proceeds, non-jobs flourished and foreigners did all the actual work (many of
who were effectively slave labour). This is most of the oil-rich middle-east.

The other model is, horrifyingly, even less admirable. A handful at the top
take everything, sell their souls to foreign oil giants, and everyone else is
screwed over. This is Nigeria and chums.

Norway is the third option. Norway ploughs the money into a sovereign wealth
fund, with long term plans. They've become world experts in getting
"difficult" oil out of the wells which will see their services increasingly in
demand around the world. Norway is a charming country to live in, despite
being cursed with oil.

~~~
gizzlon
_"Norway is the third option. Norway ploughs the money into a sovereign wealth
fund"_

The older I get the more impressed I become with how this was, and is,
handled. Especially when you see how it could have tourned out ..

~~~
justincormack
And almost did. Until the late 1980s/early 1990s they just squandered the
money like the UK did, running large deficits. But they turned things around
then.

~~~
sliverstorm
Can we hire their government to come over here and steer for a little bit?

~~~
cynest
As soon as we find comparable oil wealth.

~~~
arethuza
The UK had plenty of income from the North Sea - the difference being we
squandered it and the Norwegians treated it as a long term investment:

[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/edmundconway/6505...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/edmundconway/6505670/North-
Sea-oil-is-dragging-us-into-the-red.html)

------
guruz
I lived and worked in Oslo, Norway for the three last years. It was nice, but
eventually got boring. And the dark winters were depressive.

Living in Berlin now, feels like a much more vivid city with a much more
heterogenous society. Norway is very collectivistic.

~~~
lobo_tuerto
For me it's the other way around. I grew up in Mexico, now working & living in
Berlin, but I'd like to travel north and if possible stay for a time in
Norway.

------
Zirro
"From Norway, even Sweden now looks gritty and hardscrabble, like something
out of a Stieg Larsson novel."

Now, this is a case of national pride of course, but it really sounds like the
author has heard just one side of a story here. My impression is that Sweden
and Norway (like the other Scandinavian countries) are about equal in most
aspects. That's not wrong, is it?

~~~
geon
Right. (Swede here)

Norway and Sweden are virtually identical as far as I can tell. Though I
haven't lived there, I work with norwegians and visit a few times a year since
2008.

Standard of living might be a bit higher, but not drastically.

Naturally, Salaries are a lot lower in Sweden, but so are the prices. Food
prices in Norway are often double, rarely less than 150%.

One interesting detail is infrastructure. Due to all the mountains and fjords,
building highways in Norway is super expensive. Lots of tunnels. Smaller roads
tend to follow the natural, winding shape of the land, making them slow and
long.

~~~
mbesto
I've got tons of Swedish friends, some of who live in Oslo. They basically say
that you can speak Swedish in Oslo nowadays because of how many Swedes have
immigrated there. Why? Because there are better jobs and they pay more.

~~~
krig
The same is true in every major scandinavian country. I think it's a case of
several factors conspiring:

1\. There are more swedes in scandinavia than there are any other nationality.

2\. Young people move to the cities to find work.

3\. Youth unemployment rates are high across scandinavia.

4\. Ease of mobility across the scandinavian cultures. Olso in particular is
close to sweden, and swedes understand norwegian with very little effort (and
vice versa).

Thus, you have young swedes moving into all of the larger cities in
scandinavia, including Stockholm, Malmö and Gothenburg.

~~~
forza
"3. Youth unemployment rates are high across scandinavia."

No, there's a clear difference between Sweden/Finland and Norway/Denmark.

[http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=z8o7pt6rd5uqa6_&...](http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=z8o7pt6rd5uqa6_&met_y=unemployment_rate&idim=country:se&fdim_y=seasonality:sa&dl=en&hl=en&q=arbetsl%C3%B6shet+sverige#ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=unemployment_rate&fdim_y=age_group:y_lt25&fdim_y=seasonality:sa&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=country_group&idim=country:se:no:dk:fi&ifdim=country_group&hl=sv&dl=sv)

~~~
krig
I'd say the data backs my statement with the exception of Norway, but yes,
especially high in Sweden and Finland.

------
andreash
I've lived most of my 24 years in Norway, but the lack of a proper startup
eco-system (successful entrepreneurs, VCs and companies etc.) motivates me to
move to Silicon Valley in a few years. Am I stupid, or just adventurous? :p

~~~
gindevine
I have the opposite opinion. I've never experienced the system first-hand
myself, but I know of a few who have. To me, it seems that as long as you have
a business idea and actually check if it's possible to maintain, there's a lot
of governmental and non-governmental organizations who'll support you
financially.

I think Silicon Valley would be harder to start in, if not only for the
(seemingly) fierce competition for VCs' money and because you might have to
pay for the health insurance of your employees.

------
bborud
The article leaves out the most important aspect of Norwegian society: the
distribution of wealth is fairly even. The difference between the affluent and
less affluent is fairly small.

------
mmagin
On the subject of Norway, I can't resist recommending the brilliant dystopian
sci-fi film The Bothersome Man. It complements that essay nicely.

------
winter_blue
"Still, there are worse places in the world."

Really?

(Are there truly places more wealthy/luxurious than this?)

~~~
umarmung
He meant the opposite.

But to answer your question: Liechtenstein and Luxembourg?

So, for all intents and purposes, no... At least, not for anyone who is not
already ridiculously rich already and therefore you could live anywhere
anyway.

