
Notes on John D. Rockefeller - johnloeber
http://johnloeber.com/w/rockefeller.html
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WheelsAtLarge
I read this book too. A few things that standout in addition to the article
are: 1) His never ending frugalness, he counted every penny he ever spent. He
did this from the very start and wrote it down. He was a very rich man yet his
kids did not grow up as your typical rich kids. To the point of wearing hand
me downs. He really had respect for money. Which is important specially if you
don't have much. 2) He financed the founding of University of Chicago one of
the most respected universities worldwide. 3)Never selling any of his stock in
Standard Oil. That's why he became so rich. One of his brothers had a similar
share of standard oil but he sold part of it over time so John D. was far
wealthier that his brother because of it. 4) He started as a bookkeeper, no
college. 5) He worked hard but made sure he rested. Short bursts of hard work
followed by rest. Never worked on Sundays

Those are just some of the points that stuck in my mind. The book is a great
read. In school, I only got the bad side of Rockefeller. But this book gives a
better balanced view of his life. It is long but it's worth the read.

~~~
coliveira
John D. Rockefeller used all kinds of illegal, anti-competitive tactics to put
other companies out of business. He manipulated politicians and bankers of his
time to implement his illegal schemes. It was so much corruption that the
congress was forced to create anti-trust laws to break up his businesses. In
summary, he was one of the biggest white collar criminals of the world.

He also paid a bunch of people to write favorable stories about him,
concerning his supposed "frugality" and "industriousness". If you don't
believe, read a very interesting and revealing book written by one of his
close associates: "Frenzied Finance", by Thomas Lawson.

~~~
WheelsAtLarge
He was a man of his time. All of the books I've read of the era talk about
corruption as part of doing business. Many of the things we consider corrupt
now where very legal at the time. The Standard Oil monopoly was legal at the
time. It's not an excuse but you can't exclude it when evaluating his actions.
At the time he was just being a smart business man. He was no saint but it's
possible to learn from what he did.

It's interesting to note that one of the biggest criticisms about him was that
he would force companies to sell themselves to him or be put out of business
by his monopoly power. Now, 100+ years after, it's still a business practice.
I know it happened when Amazon bought diapers.com. Amazon threaten to start
it's own diaper service and put them out of business, if they did not sell.
Was it a smart business practice from Amazon's view or was it corrupt? I guess
it's up in the air since it's still happening.

If you read Teddy Roosevelt's bio you get a view of what politics and business
where at the time.

~~~
coliveira
It was not just a "criticism about him". His business practices were PROVEN to
be crooked, with a number of witnesses testifying about what happened in front
of the courts.

And the fact that big companies sometimes do the same nowadays is a sign that
they are doing something that is ethically very fishy, not the other way
around.

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WalterBright
I read that book. What struck me about it was with all the complaining about
Rockefeller being rapacious and evil, there was very, very little backing that
up. Mostly it boiled down to being very rich, and a tough competitor.

During the anti-trust trial, Chernow wrote that Rockefeller was steadily
losing market share due to competitors getting better. I.e. the anti-trust
ruling was unnecessary, Rockefeller was unable to manage such a large
enterprise efficiently. (Though Chernow did not write that specifically,
that's what the facts he presented suggested.)

It's still a great read, I just found that Chernow's conclusions were not
supported by the facts he presented.

~~~
simplicio
IIRC, Chernow's main criticism against Rockefeller is that he was extremely
suspicious of his critics motives, but at the same time couldn't fathom that
other people might honestly question his motives in using the immense power
that he'd accumulated via his collusion with the railroads.

I don't think this was evil exactly (does Chernow actually call it that?).
Rockefeller honestly believed in a sort of divine Corporatism, where economic
success was a defacto indicator of divine grace. I doubt most people would
agree with his premise, given that we have plenty of examples of evil,
successful people.

But I think Rockefeller is a good example of how that kind of thinking can be
twisted even if the person in question is generous (as Rockefeller certainly
was). In his mind, his wealth meant he was a good person, and since he was a
good person, there was no problem in his colluding to block other, less
wealthy (and thus, less moral) people from taking part of the pie. And people
who questioned his motives were obviously being duplicitous. This led to a
kind of circular logic, where his wealth justified his actions in accumulating
ever more wealth.

~~~
johnloeber
Yes, exactly. Rockefeller constructed a mental framework for himself, by which
he could rationalize away just about any action.

~~~
WalterBright
Pretty much everybody does that.

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ArkyBeagle
1) A subset of the language had to be developed to describe Rockefeller. This
subset translates poorly into present-day English. The language used had its
own rules.

2) "Anti trust" changed in meaning over time.

3) "Monopsomy" contracts with (what came to be ) common carriers was the thing
at issue. We live with countless monopsomies today.

4) People like Teddy Roosevelt and Wm. Randolph Hearst built their own empires
partially by opposing men like Rockefeller.

5) You cannot psychologize 19th century people in terms of 21st century
thinking. Just disease and hunger made them radically different. Trauma was
rampant.

6) SFAIK, this ensconced "competition" as a legal good, which has continued to
be problematic. The result of the breakup of SO pretty much confirmed what
Rockefeller predicted about competition. The resulting stock was _MUCH_ more
valuable after the breakup. If anything, that is a measure of how his extreme
parsimony held down costs in a public-goods sort of way.

7) I think the change in price of lighting oil has been radically
underestimated in its effect on people's daily lives. The subsequent advent of
the electric lamp shifted productivity upward even more.

8) There was no boilerplate for the relationship between mass labor and
corporations at the time. A coal shortage may have been life threatening under
conditions. See also the 1902 Anthracite Strike w/ Teddy Roosevelt as
President.

I suspect the Rockefellers ( Jr. and Sr. ) can be more seen as part of the
solution than part of the problem in Ludlow. That might have been calculated
and PR oriented on their part but still....

"The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there." \- LP
Hartley.

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nullnilvoid
It is a fascinating read, although the book is a little thick. It tells the
life story of one of, if not the greatest American industrialist. John D.
Rockefeller built an empire in 20 years. He was self-made (although he did not
grow up poor as his father was a snake-oil salesman, he had no money to start
his business and had to take loans from his father, unlike Trump), self-taught
(no college, no mentor in business other than his father), and devoted to
religion. He donated the majority of his wealth away. He abstained from
smoking, drinking, and partying for his whole life.

His business practices were highly controversial though. Lots of them were
banned later for stifling competitions and innovations. For instance he used
the scale of Standard oil to get exclusive rebates with railroads, which were
later considered to be common carrier and should treat all customers fairly.
He also signed lots of exclusive agreements with oil producers, which would
starve other refiners.

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pmoriarty
_" I cheat my boys every time I get a chance. I want to make 'em sharp. I
trade with the boys and skin 'em. I just beat 'em every chance I get."_ \--
John D Rockefeller

I wonder how that worked out...

~~~
kevinarcher
This quote is attributed to his father William Avery Rockefeller.

~~~
quakeguy
Father/Son.... That is a powerful quote nevertheless, speaks to some more than
others.

~~~
ci5er
Powerful quote, but father/son is a stretch. He hated his
gambling/drinking/bigamist/criminal father who left his mother when he was 12.

~~~
551199
Yeah I was going to comment about the same thing. There is a good advice for
people who have parents that are alcoholics. Don't take the first sip.

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dibstern
I'm not sure I'll ever understand this: "Rockefeller leaves me with the
problematic impression of a benevolent dictator: positive outcomes for society
by distressing means, enacted by a man with tunnel vision." He said that
everything he did for the industry and for humanity was good. So why is this
distressing? Shouldn't someone who is ruthlessly good be seen as a hero?

~~~
mattnewton
It's like when you handed in a math problem and you got the right answer but
didn't show your work. Reinforcing that behavior is troubling because yes, we
want good, but we want consistent and explainable good that is auditable by
society.

~~~
mseebach
But then it's also like when the student who shows his work, but gets the
answer wrong, rises to the top of the class, gets the girl and a highly paid
job in management consulting, because we ended up caring more about the
process than the outcome. While the student who gets the answer right every
time but can't be bothered to show his work ends up in a cubicle, endlessly
berated for not putting cover sheets on his TPS reports (as mandated by the
management consultants).

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rckclmbr
I also read the book, and think everyone should -- it seems like everyone has
a different takeaway from the book, it really is a fascinating read.

* As others have said, Rockefeller was very frugal. His son, John Jr., wore his sisters dresses because they didn't want to waste money on new clothes. Seriously.

* Rockefeller Jr tried to run the family business for a while, but decided it wasn't for him. He was a primary contributor (ie, bought and gave land away) for Acadia, Great Smoky Mountains, Grand Teton, Yosemite and Shenandoah National Parks.

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soheil
I also read the book (listened to it while swimming.) I must mention it was
listed on YC’s Winter Reading List [1] right above 48 Laws of Power which I
also read, however, that book has since disappeared from the list, presumably
due to some of its non-PC and brutally honest manipulative methods to power it
prescribes. How can I unread it now YC?

[1] [https://blog.ycombinator.com/ycs-winter-reading-
list](https://blog.ycombinator.com/ycs-winter-reading-list)

~~~
peller
Sorry this is entirely off-topic, but what do you use while swimming to listen
to audio?

~~~
soheil
[1] Waterproof iPod shuffle bought it on Amazon. Just clip it on to your
goggles and you're good to go. Works incredibly well.

[1] [https://www.amazon.com/SILVER-WATERPROOF-waterproofed-
UNDERW...](https://www.amazon.com/SILVER-WATERPROOF-waterproofed-UNDERWATER-
swimming/dp/B005FA38SG/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1485656044&sr=8-4&keywords=waterproof+ipod+shuffle)

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RA_Fisher
If you want to read about Rockefeller, "The Prize" is the book to read!

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known
TL;DR

Machiavellianism (willingness to manipulate and deceive others), Narcissism
(egotism and self-obsession), Sociopathy (lack of remorse and empathy), Sadism
(pleasure in suffering of others);

