
Ask HN: I am 30yrs and never had a full time job, now suicidal. Any life advice? - tevlon
Hi Hackernews,<p>i am seeking for life advice.
Right now, i don&#x27;t know what i should do with my life. I feel trapped. Forgotten. Not part of society. And the part that worries me the most : i have become suicidal.<p>Context :<p>I am almost 30 years old.
I studied Bioinformatics, still doing my masters. That is one of the main reasons i never worked. It took me 10 years to study and i feel my life doesn&#x27;t progress, while others buying cars or getting married. Even though i only have to attend 3 more exams, with my current depression, it feels sooo hard to even pass one of them.
The reason it took me so long was, that i had to work next to my studies.
I am broke as hell, in fact, i have a debts of 20000€.
I am based in germany.
I applied for 20 jobs so far. Already got 4 rejections.<p>I feel unwanted and even though germany has a social security net .. i imagined my life not to be so bad.<p>I feel like, i can never &quot;start a life&quot;, because i studied so long and no one wants a quitter .. at least in germany.
I don&#x27;t know what to do. I am in a unhappy place and i can&#x27;t get out :(
======
Lordarminius
You are almost 30 years old, will soon have a masters degree from a university
in a first world nation, have worked several jobs on apart-time basis and do
not have a wife whom you do not love, or kids you can not support to tie you
down. You owe a miserly Euro20k in debt which you can quite easily pay off (
for instance by not buying a car in the next 1.5 yrs).

You are young full of promise, healthy and educated. You are determined and
hard working and only going through a temporary (and normal)period of self
doubt.

I'd say you are not in a bad place.

Edit

1\. You should see a therapist to check you out for depression as someone as
pointed out.

2\. Keep on applying for jobs. 4 rejections is nothing.

3\. Be thankful you live in this era, the greatest time to be alive .

~~~
Balgair
On 2.

Yeah, 4 rejections is nothing really. Remember, even in Germany, companies are
run mostly by very busy people that have bad moods and not enough sugar in
their coffee when they review your application. They may have lost a contract
and no longer have money for the job, they may be racist asshats or smug know-
nothings, there are a billion legit reasons, and a trillion stupid ones. I
know it seems _so very personal_ to you to get rejected, but there are
millions of jobs in Germany that you can do still and need someone to do them.
You WILL find a job, and it may take a LONG time, but you'll be a lot happier
and better off when you find the RIGHT job for you. A lot of it is luck, but
if you keep applying, eventually you'll hit the jackpot. If it helps, I
applied for 2000+ jobs in ~2009 before getting a single email back, and I
found a job that I loved and was a good fit for. So, it does happen, even if
it sucks right now.

------
stephen82
Hmm, let's see mate...

I'm 34 years old, with a stupid Computer Science diploma that worths
absolutely nothing, unemployed since July 2015, forced to live with my parents
as I have no other choice, I'm totally broke, not married, no kids, no one is
hiring me because I have experience as a technician and as assistant systems
administrator (thanks "cloud" for making me completely unnecessary), and I owe
more than 200,000 euros in debt.

Am I suicidal? Nope. Should I have been? ...why? :/

The point is mate, most of the times we are forced to do things that go
against our will or our dreams.

Right now I feel stuck as you, I have no one by my side, not a single friend
and I mean it when I say not a single one, but you see the point is to enjoy
something you have that others lack.

What I often do is to browse on YouTube and seek for motivation. I look for
people with disabilities or whatsoever that thirst for life and are always
positive.

If I was born able-bodied, why not appreciate it with all my heart and embrace
this given gift and hope for a better day?

We fall, we rise, and that's how life is mate.

If you need to chat, I'm here.

Keep your head up, safe your dignity and your pride, and move forward.

Life is short, enjoy it now you can.

Cheers.

~~~
personlurking
I'm also mid-30s, no degree, still no career, employed part-time, barely
scrape by w/ nothing in the bank, not married, no kids, extremely few friends
(in other countries), still trying to figure out what my skills are.

I'm not suicidal per se (don't think I'd ever attempt it), but I do wonder why
I'm here, in the larger sense. If it weren't for my undying love of learning
and of the examined life, I'd have gone off the deep end decades ago.

Think of depression as a cloudy sky, whether that's Portugal cloudy or London
cloudy, the point is to remember the sky is not actually cloudy, it's forever
blue, you just can't see it at the moment. Keep looking, you will.

~~~
tluyben2
Not what you meant but not having actual cloudy skies helps; living in the
south of europe (PT/ES) instead of north (NL/UK) made hard times a lot easier.
Somehow it does not seem important but when your month sucks you do not want
to wake up in cold, rain and clouds. Opening your window and feeling warm sun
does a lot. It is just the bit of lift you need sometimes.

~~~
personlurking
That's certainly a view I hadn't applied to myself until now, but yeah, I've
been living in sunny climes for the last several years (BR/PT).

------
DanBC
Thoughts of suicide are a medical emergency, and you deserve medical
treatment.

[https://www.suizidprophylaxe.de/hilfsangebote/](https://www.suizidprophylaxe.de/hilfsangebote/)

Immediate help is available around the clock at the telephone counseling under
the nation-wide free phone number 0800 - 111 0 111 or 0800 - 111 0 222 and in
the Internet under www.telefonseelsorge.de

Sofortige Hilfe erhalten Sie rund um die Uhr bei der Telefonseelsorge unter
der bundeseinheitlichen kostenlosen Rufnummer 0800 - 111 0 111 oder 0800 - 111
0 222 und im Internet unter www.telefonseelsorge.de

------
ghuntley
Hi Tevlon;

Talking about this type of stuff is okay. You took a chance in writing this up
and no doubt it took a lot of effort. Please don't be embarrassed. You have
taken the right first step.

If you want a way to self-measure/reflect on how you got to this place, then
please read [https://opensource.com/business/15/12/avoid-burnout-live-
hap...](https://opensource.com/business/15/12/avoid-burnout-live-happy) but
unfortunately in your current position/state it's not going to be possible to
be self-aware/objective. The internet isn't the right avenue and this isn't
the first time you have brought up this topic [1]

PLEASE start listening to yourself and make the change you need in your life
happen by picking up the phone and seeking medical advice. If they don't
handle this matter with respect, care and compassion needed, then fuck those
guys. Pick up the phone again and find someone who will listen and that wants
to help you get through this. You got this; if you can ask a bunch of
strangers for help then you can ask a medical professional. No excuses. Asking
a bunch of strangers for help without anonymity takes guts.

Burnout is often difficult for some to self-diagnose (typically as they always
find other reasons to justify their symptoms) but the good news is when you
have experienced burnout; you can often see it in other people. When you do,
you should step in and help. Get through this, then you can help others
because you have been there and can recognise the signs.

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=tevlon](https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=tevlon)

------
david927
You really need to seek out a therapist. I don't know the expense of that in
Germany but it can be life-changing.

It sounds to me that you might be depressed. The thing about depression is
that it's possible to manage -- but you have to reach out. You've posted this,
and that's a good first step, but now you need to tell a professional.

Personally there were many times when life was quite bleak and it all felt
like a dead-end. I think that with a little help, you can move past this
point, and later you will look back at it and be glad you did.

------
juliancox
Exercise! It's been repeatedly shown to be a huge contributor to mental health
(as well as physical). Take a walk in a park, ride a bike, go jogging or have
a swim. All are cheap to do. Start slow if you're not fit, but make time for
it every day (at least half an hour). It's more important than almost anything
else you might want to do more. And definitely get help for your suicidal
thoughts.

------
rdlecler1
I was in a similar situation. Graduated with a PhD in computational biology in
2009. Applied for hundreds of jobs. No one was hiring. I was 36 years old, in
debt, with no work experience, and I missed my window to get work experience
and I've been unhireable ever since.

First get some help, there's medication that can help with anxiety. Right now
you're in a death spiral: You can't sleep which causing stress, which is
causing you to loose sleep. Some medication will calm you down enough where
you can start to get a grip back on reality. This dread you are feeling is
stress induced so you need to deal with that first.

Second, you want to think about finding a lifeline, something to give you some
stability. You don't need to shoot for the stars on a dream job right now.
Maybe that includes doing some lab-assistant work at the university. See what
kinds of clubs there are in your school, maybe consulting clubs or investment
banking clubs, or entrepreneur clubs.

$20,000 may feel like a lot of debt, but many Americans have hundreds of
thousands in debt when they graduate. Just make sure you dial back and live
under your means.

Finally, you still have time on your side. I didn't start my PhD until I was
30 and while I felt my life was over at 36 when I graduated and I resented the
years off sacrifice for no payoff, there are opportunities out there. I took a
very low paying job to get back on my feet, and eventually I founded a startup
that has had some minor success so far. What'a important to turning the corner
is to find a ray of hope. If you can do that, whatever you're going through
today doesn't feel that bad.

From all of this I also met my wonderful wife and I can't imagine my life
without her. I would have ever met if life had 'worked out' as I had planned.
Sometimes these hard roads bring you to the place you really need to be. Stick
with it and I promise you that you'lol get back to being in a good place. This
is just like having a cold or the flu. It will pass.

------
pedalpete
As everybody has said, go seek professional help. You should have 0 shame
about this. In the last year, I've discovered that some of my co-workers and
friends I most admire have struggled with depression. It is probably more
common than you think.

I also think I may be able to relate to your situation of being 30 without a
career.

When I turned 30 I wasn't working. I thought I was taking a few months off,
but couldn't get back into the work force. I was unemployed for almost 2
years, taking the odd job I could and volunteering (which I recommend).

I hadn't discovered programming or product management (truly) yet, which would
become my profession by my mid-thirties. Ten years on, I work for a leading
research agency, surrounded by amazing and brilliant co-workers and get to
learn and experience more every day.

So, my point is, many people are just getting on the path at 30. You're not
the only one, and I felt the same way you did at the time. I felt I was lost,
I sought help. It was terrifying to think that I was left behind, that this is
all my life would be.

The rejections from jobs you want can hurt, I know that, and each rejection
gets more painful, and more scary.

I don't believe I have any contacts in Germany, though I could be wrong. Feel
free to add me on linkedin (my name is same as my username here) and I'd be
happy to help where with connections if I can.

PS, though 20000€ may seem a massive insurmountable amount, and it is a large
chunk, you can pay that down in a few years if you're careful.

All is not lost, and this test will make you stronger. Don't be afraid to ask
for help.

------
lignux
You literally have your whole life ahead of you, you didn't miss nothing.

Whats the rush? You will get married, get a job, buy a house, have a career
and all that its not like you are 80.

Its all in the head just change something, start going to the gym, get out
more often, anything really that you have not been doing.

And also on what metrics your life isn't progressing? You don't have a job
because you chose to study and you feel behind your peers? There's time for
that and for everything as i said previously. Think about it.

Chin up.

EDIT: Typos

------
tixocloud
Hi Tevlon,

You're actually a very fortunate person and regardless of your circumstances,
you have the ability to get out of it all and still feel happy. You're also an
important individual with a mission to fulfill.

Similar to you, I also was in a financial struggle. I often looked to others
and questioned why me - I had a full time job, I was studying for my Masters
and I also had to manage our family mortgage.

The fact that you're doing your Masters already shows what a well accomplished
academic you are. Not many people can say that they have the good fortune to
study or have the ability to get as far as you so congratulations.

I'd be happy to chat with you further about my experience getting over my
financial difficulties but the bottom line is as you continue to persevere,
you will be able to break through everything! And I mean everything! I also
sought a lot of encouragement from Buddhism and kept my spirits up with
people's experiences.

I applied to hundred plus jobs and had about 90 rejections but honestly, it
doesn't matter because all you need is just that 1 employer to accept you. And
funny as it is, it will be the right job for you.

Cheers. You have a magnificent life ahead of you. What you're going through
now will only create a strong foundation for who you're going to be in the
future.

------
alanz1223
My grandpa had to eat crackers and bread for most of his lifetime in Argentina
and he didn't find success until his late 40s as a farmer... Said suicide was
the easiest path but after suffering for too long it'd be like training for
war and surrendering when you hear the drums.

------
Raed667
20 job applications and 4 rejections are NOTHING!

I know each application/rejection drains you emotionally, but be ready to
multiply that number by 10 in order to get a few decent interviews. The key to
survival is "detachment".

(From personal experience, and feedback of my friends)

------
marcoscleison
Hi, I read your comment with pain. I know what is to spend 10 year in lab and
does not have house, nor car etc. However I would like to advice you to:

1) Forgive yourself. When we are in problems we tends to put the guilt in
ourselves. However, even if this was true, we can forgive ourselves.

2) List you skills. Go ahead without afraid and knock door asking job. Do not
worry about the "NO", but worry to keep calm and search again.

3) If you do not get the ideal Job, seek jobs in such manner you get some
money to pay you bills.

4) Be thankful for what you have. I can say that because you are in Germany.
If you were in Brazil (I am from Brazil) or in Siria, the thing was really
bad. For example, we are worry because our water is finishing. Do you have
water? If yes, be thankful, because our water is finishing. Here in northeast
Brazil there are months without rains. I think that more one or two months our
cows will die without water. Is vary sad when you have cows and see them
asking water feeling the death near. Here in Brazil, many Phd are jobless,
because of corruption (of politics), the projects were canceled. Today I am
working hard as programmer to have some budget, now I have only $4 in my bank
account. My mother and my mother in law are feeding me for a while. I cannot
go out Brazil because the visa is not easy and cheap. You can go out Gemmany,
you have all the EU to go, but I cannot do that.

5) Sincerely, I would like to help you. But the situation does not allow.
However I would like to recommends that if you feel alone, search a friend.
Speak about the situation and put all bad feeling out. Recharge yourself and
go fight.

6) Try to sleep well.

7) Try to get some solar light to improve you D vitamin.

8) Make physical activities.

9) Drink water (water is like gold) and not alcohol (alcohol will make you
sad).

10) Go out home and help a street children, an old person.

11) If you have strong suicidal thinking, please, search some help. There are
professionals that will help and you will see the life great again.

Finally, excuse my English. Please, if I write something and you misunderstand
forgive me. I am willing to help as I can.

Go ahead. You will reach.

------
cprayingmantis
Let me just emphasize that you need to get professional help. I had been
dealing with some stuff and I started getting some professional help and it's
amazing the difference just dissecting your problems in a constructive
environment does.

As for your job situation I'd mirror what dbg31415 said. Keep your chin up.
Just to make you feel a little bit better let me share what I went through
when first looking for a job. I applied for 120 positions when I started and
only 3 got back to me and 2 wanted to hire me. I took an internship and worked
up from there. I made connections and used those to branch out.

------
0hn0
1\. Try to get ANY job, even not related with your study. Never stop to
looking for a new job.

2\. Work with people, be with people, help them.

3\. Fall in love, get married, have a baby.

4\. Go to a psychotherapist or go to support group meetings.

5\. Go to a church. God wants to help you but you have to ask Him first.
Doesn't matter if you believe in God or not, God helps atheists too.

------
ramtatatam
Hi, I was in similar situation (though no suicidal thoughts) and can advice a
few things:

1) you had a plan when you started your studies - any plan requires
consequence and you are the only one who can consequently execute your plan.
So don't give up when there's only 100 meters away from finish! Last 100
meters always feels worst but look back at whole marathon you are just
finishing!

2) don't worry about job hunting, your end result will greatly depend on luck
and how you structure your CV. In your situation any work-related experience
(even if it was scientific coop, volunteering or teaching) is useful and
everything depends on how you put this together. I can help with your CV
(though I don't speak German, I can share nice video about CV writing)

3) you are under strong emotions now and obviously you are aware that any
decision made under emotions is a bad decision. Step back, have a break, have
a sleep, have ice cream, have chocolate, watch sci-fi movie from 70's, play a
computer game, do whatever helps you relax. Focus since you are close
achieving your goal!

4) this is not a big dept, you will pay it back in no time once you get a job
(and you will get one, that is with no doubt since German economy is the
strongest in Europe)

------
ninedays
Hi there,

my better half is finishing her PhD in biology and is now 31. She is still a
student and has the exact same fear that you have.

All of our friends all have bought a house and are starting to have kids (a
friend of mine already have 3) while we are both of us on one salary while she
finishes her PhD.

This is a normal feeling. The fact that you don't have any job experience
makes it scary for you as you feel you haven't been participating in society
like most people around you do.

It is normal to experience several rejections before being accepted - we all
have this issue.

I think that the biggest issue on your side is the fact that you feel old.
Older than the rest of the people around you who are "advancing in life" and
you feel you are not.

I will say : don't worry too much about it.

If you are competent enough (and I am sure you are), you will face several
rejections before being accepted in a position and everything will start to
unlock from there. Sure you have some debts but most of us do too and we are
all doing fine.

Try to expand the companies you are reaching to include smaller or bigger
companies depending on what you feel is the right environment for you.

Sorry for any mistakes as english is not my native language.

Take care and stay strong, you'll see that everything will start to unlock
soon.

Edit : also, what you feel right now will make you more experienced and,
later, you could take advantage of having lived this to prevent others from
happening. I feel confident for you and I am sure in the end, you will enjoy
your life like you should.

------
eecks
Sorry to hear that. It's easy to look at other people's lives and become
envious but you are seeing the ideal part of their lives. The parts they want
to expose. Everyone has their own problems - this does not belittle your
problems but you have to understand it.

I think you are not in a bad position in life. Comparing you to myself you are
more educated in a really interesting field and you are probably a lot
smarter. You speak two languages perfectly and you have worked which was more
than I had when I got my first job.

20k of debt is not too bad. When you do start working, you will be able to put
money towards paying that off and it will be gone in two years if you're able
to budget correctly.

I doubt my reply will really help you though. You need to power through this
depression and pass your exams. You will eventually get a job and then you
will look back and think "well done self, I did it".

------
throwbsidbdk
I just got my masters a few years back, also close to 30, and had a similar
experience. as in, I went through a period of applying for jobs for months.
Hundreds. I got phone screens from maybe 15. Got second stage phone interviews
from 10 or so.

Eventually I had 3 on-site interviews lined up, all with companies I loved in
positions that matched my skills. Success seemed guaranteed!

I was rejected from all of them. Crushed. Scared. I had to ramp up applying
again and go through the same 3 stage interview process all over. On top of
that, I was running out of money. Actually, running out of credit cards was
more accurate.

At this point I had been out of work for months. I had graduated school and
immediately moved to a hot market, thinking I could land a good job right
away. Now I had no money and a three month gap in work history, and no support
system to fall back on within 1000 miles.

I started driving for Uber. The only job I could think of that wouldnt look
bad. It sucked. I had a ton of student loan debt, a masters, and I was doing a
job you can do without graduating highschool.

Eventually I got another round of three on site interviews setup.

In my second round of interviews I got an offer from all three. What changed?
No clue. In the depressing down time I got some cool stuff on GitHub, spent an
inordinate amount of time making my resume perfect, and studied lists of
stupid cs interview questions for days. Going through so many interviews also
taught me how to interview to some extent.

It was still a crap shoot and everybody goes through the same unless you've
got something like Harvard on your resume.

It's gonna suck but you can do it. It will probably take 50-200 applications
to land your first job. It's mostly a numbers game.

At my last company I was part of the hiring process occasionally. About 100
people would apply to one position. 15-20 would have the desired skills and
experience listed on the resume. 5 of those would pass the phone screen
questions. All of those would come in for an interview and we hired one.

It's a personal example but I feel like it's a pretty average hiring process.
From there you can figure out your own odds average case. So on average to get
a job: apply to 100 places, get 15 phone screens, around 5 on sites. At this
point 50% of the average candidate would get hired.

Keep strong, once you land something this will be behind you

------
joeclark77
If doing the ordinary and correct things is leading you to despair, then try
something adventurous and radical: sail the ocean, climb a mountain, become a
monk... use your imagination!

(Here's a secret: ten years from now, no one will know or care whether you
have that master's degree or not.)

------
err4nt
You CAN finish up your studies, and you CAN get a job!

To help put your 20 application in perspective, the last time I was job
hunting I was trying to send out batches of 30-40 applications at a time! I
would round up many positions I could do, categorized them by the type of
cover letter they should have, used a few different templates for my letter
and customized it a little for each position.

I know the feeling you are having right now, but the feeling is TEMPORARY, and
you're almost done!

You need energy for one final push and then you are free to pursue a lot of
exciting, wonderful opportunities. Hacker News needs more sharp people like
you.

Cant wait to see your update posts next year when you tell us how great your
new job is :)

------
combatentropy
I know this might sound weird, but try volunteering.

First I would say, call that suicide hotline. Get some emotional support,
whether through confiding in family or friends, perhaps a therapist --- but
there is a lot of questionable psych advice out there. Be careful. If it
doesn't make sense, don't just blindly accept it. Keep seeking more and more
truth in your life, though. (If you think reading might help, I like any book
by Dr. Chris Thurman.)

But yeah, volunteering can help at least some people. It gets your mind off
yourself and likewise helps make a difference in another's life. That is the
centerpiece of meaning in nearly everyone's life: making a difference in the
world.

------
9rings4women
Hi Tevlon, thanks for reaching out. It's clear that you are suffering a lot in
your current situation. I hope that some of the advice and support here on HN
brings you hope and peace. I'll add some thoughts of my own, based on personal
experience in a similar situation. I recently left a stressful PhD program,
about 1.5 years from completion of a 8 year program, after becoming suicidal.

I found that listing out all my options helpful in combatting feeling trapped
or suicidal, and I would read over the list frequently. Some options may
include sitting through your 3 final exams, leaving the program, or taking a
break for a year or two. You could join a volunteer organization and travel.
You could take a week off. You could find a job in another sector. You could
spend time pursuing your hobbies or dream job. Be creative when you brainstorm
what you could do. Once you have a list, it's easier to see alternatives,
whether or not you decide to pursue them.

There are a number of activities that I tried over the course of several
months to get myself back to decent mental state, including: meditation, long
walks, reading, exercise, spending time with friends and family, opening up
about my situation to friends and family, seeing a therapist, changing up
routine, and volunteering. I encourage you to try a variety of activities,
even if you don't initially feel like doing anything. For me, getting out of
my apartment at least once a day was critical to turning myself around.

------
mdsjrossi
Be thankful you can wake up everyday without needing help, you can feed
yourself, you can go for a jog, you can go to the library, you can cook an
egg. You have choices and life is not fair and no matter even if you had a
great job you will still have debt and probably always will. I quit my job
making $100K (US) no benefits and no savings to start a company and we just
started paying ourself after 2-1/2 years of little to no pay. I am 40 and I
get to wake up everyday and build my company and know that I can make an
impact everyday. Hang in there because we have all wanted to take a rather
dark path at one time or another but people care you just have to give them a
chance. You will get through this and if you want to work for a Startup in the
US with little to no pay I am sure we could have you help us out doing
something. You have knowledge which nobody can ever take away from you and
just as you were not educated overnight, you can't expect all your problems to
be fixed overnight. Take 1 bite of the elephant at a time. Make a list of 3
things/goals that can be done and start working on them. As my grandfather
said "Never miss an opportunity to smile at the sun". Go outside and take
daily walks to start and stay hydrated. Happy to talk more but I swear to you
that life gets better.

------
pasbesoin
Focus on your physical health. It's no panacea, but it's the basis for feeling
better about the world.

People who discount you? Fuck them. Move on, before their attitude can infect
you about yourself.

It's taken me a long time, myself, to start to incorporate this into my own
sense of being. I was always the "nice guy" who went out of his way to
accommodate others. To pro-actively fix problems even when doing so caused me
more strife than thanks.

Feel better about yourself. People respond more positively to that than to
anything else. It makes you seem "safe" to them.

I know, it's a chicken and egg situation (which comes first?), to some extent.

But most of my disappointments come from not taking care of myself, and
people's responses to that.

Also, my biggest regrets.

So, make sure you are getting good physical activity. Explore medication if
you believe it helps. (And, again, from personal experience, often it doesn't
-- at least not a particular medication.)

The world basically wants you to take care of yourself, first. Whatever is
said -- _whatever!_ This is the truth of the matter: Take care of yourself, to
gain acceptance from others.

And, the rare friend who accepts you for who you are, warts and all. They are
indeed rare -- but they do exist. You take care of yourself for them, too,
because you find yourself wanting to be a positive factor in their life.

Hang in there. And find somewhere where you fit. _Whatever that is._ You
deserve and need to make yourself happy -- content, at least. The rest follows
from that.

If you turn it around, make X goal -- particularly if X is making you
miserable -- the pre-requisite to being happy? That is the recipe for failure.

Best wishes!

P.S. I struggle with social connectedness, as well. Yet it is the single thing
that brings me the greatest happiness and peace in life. And you know what? It
does _not_ depend on any title or position. Not the connections that matter.
It does both gain from and feed feeling better about yourself.

If it's lacking, add it to the top of your list.

 _Life_ first. Career and all that bullshit, second.

------
srose3100
Sometimes depression is situation based and sometimes it isn't. As a general
rule there are 3 aspects/areas of your life:

1\. Home life: How our your living conditions, bills, people you live with.
Are you comfortable?

2\. Work life(e.g. Work/Study/Job hunting): Do you enjoy what you do and is it
a good working environment?

3.Relationships: How are you getting on with Friends, Family,
boyfriend/girlfriend e.t.c?

If one of these area's is off then it's ok and you can usually cope if two or
more are off then you definitely need to try and change something. Alwyas talk
to someone about these feelings/situations as it's very hard to think clearly
or logically during these times you definatley need a second opinion. And
somethign to be aware of that a lot of people don't seem to know is imposter
syndrome which most people deal with at sometime or other. When you have the
idea that although you can do something your actually just fakeing it and
eventually wil be found out:
[https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/nov/09/imposto...](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/nov/09/impostor-
syndrome-oliver-burkeman)

------
Mz
A) I got my first full time paid job at age 41. Let me recommend the book
"What color is your parachute?"

B) It sounds like you are having an identity crisis because you are nearly
done with school. You know how to be a student. You don't know how to be an
employee.

I went to college basically for that reason. I did the employee thing for over
five years. I now do freelance work. I like it better.

Point being: you need _money._ That doesn't necessarily mean you need a _job._

Best.

------
makach
being rejected 4 times is not uncommon. How do you apply to jobs? Make sure
you apply in massively parallel, statistically you increase your chances.
contact a recruitment agency, they are can help you get in touch with a
company. contact many recruitment agencies. increase your chances. go to
interviews, you'll get practice doing interviews, you learn what to say and
what to ask. //you must learn to speak the words recruiters wants to hear.

look outside your comfort zone, challenge yourself---consider relocating to a
different country//EU made that simple for us.

school is nice, but heh, not super important. it helps to get your through
your interviews.

your life experience is your greatest asset. you sound like a hard worker.
keep trying and never give up.

life is a series of rejections, your job is to put those behind you always
look forward. future is ahead. who knows what wonderful things you will
achieve?

your life is precious. not just to you but also the people around you,
strangers, families, old friends. you might not know it, see it or be aware of
it, but be certain that _you_ are important.

keep trying, but be ready for change.

------
re_todd
I had a similar background, but in the U.S. I even lived close to a few big
biotech companies, and I could not even get an interview, even when applying
for entry-level jobs. Then I would hear from my friends and relatives that so-
and-so with just a high school diploma got a job at one of those places. I got
very angry and bitter. I had given up TV and video games for an entire decade
to focus on my learning and education. I was never suicidal, but was finding
it more and more difficult to get out of bed by 10 a.m. I think what helped me
most of all were the stories of people that were much worse off than me, and
experienced more tragedies, and yet were so kind and positive. I started
thinking about these people more than my seemingly unfair situation, and life
became much easier to cope with. So try focusing on inspiring stories. They
will make life easier to handle and will give you an attitude that is much
more attractive to employers.

------
burnerofcourse
I tried to kill myself once. I had lost all my coping mechanisms and convinced
myself that not only was killing myself the only way out, but that no one
would care if I did. I am not ashamed of what I did but I regret it immensely.
It's hard to reconcile the fact that I would have lost so much with the
feeling at that time that I would lose nothing.

I don't know what I can say that will have any meaning to you, insofar as I
dismissed everything said to me at that time in my own life, but I'll say
this: believe it or not, you have exclusive control over whether you have the
opportunity for your life to improve. All you have to do is give yourself the
opportunity by whatever means possible. All you have to do is wake up tomorrow
morning.

------
btcboss
Hey Tevlon. I feel a bit the same. I just graduated (2.5 late). I have $27K
USD in student debt. Spent a year working on my startup idea and it barely is
generating revenue.

We've all been there. If you feel not a part of society, go out to some
meetups of stuff you are interested in. There have to be some groups that meet
weekly/monthly. Hang out and meet new people.

You are not a quitter. You are about to finish your masters! That's big
achievement.

I say:

1) Find out something that will make you happy (job, traveling,etc) 2) Go out
there and start working towards getting that.

Hope this helps. Hang in there!

[http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/301754826304-0-1/s-l1000.jpg](http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/301754826304-0-1/s-l1000.jpg)

------
digitaltrees
Figure out anything, no matter how small to make you feel like you are
progressing and moving forward. If you can't find a job, find a project,
consult on a project, explore an idea you find interesting and set a goal to
create a product result or deliverable. A little bit of momentum will go a
long way.

A few years ago, my sister had just graduated from university with a degree in
chemistry and was considering medical school, but was unsure whether that was
right. Like you, she felt like it would take too long before she would be out
of school and would be in debt. She couldn't decide and started to stagnate.
It quickly became demotivating and she became suicidal. So, I asked her to do
me a favor and had her come and work at a company I own as a low level office
manager. Despite it being something that probably wasn't her life goal long
term, being active, working with people, accomplishing tasks, and seeing
clearly what she didn't want to do was very motivating - very quickly. Within
4 months she made a quick decision and moved across the country to work at an
animal sanctuary as a volunteer (it was tight for her financially) and
eventually got a job full time. She left after two years, but it transformed
her life.

I had a similar experience right before founding my current company. I felt
like I weren't progressing and became extremely depressed and suicidal. I
decided I had to do something and it didn't matter what as long as it was
different. So we adjusted course, set a goal and moved forward. Is it a happy
result? I don't know, we havent had any real results because the plan will
take time, but at least I feel like I am moving forward.

Also, don't worry about where you are in the "progress of life" like having a
car, being married etc., or otherwise compare yourself to others. First of
all, those things don't necessarily bring happiness; we all know plenty of
people that have a house and spouse and are miserable. For all you know, if
you had those things now, you would feel trapped. Right now you can explore or
pick up and do anything you want.

Do something, anything, and see what happens.

------
radicalachraf
For a start I would like to say myself a student I sometimes lose hope about
college,hobbies and everything but that is not a reason no to push yourself
more . If you like what you study or do you can start doing projects it's
great way to track your progess and move forward another option could be to go
trough an extensive tech niche why not go trough a web program (a nanodegree
or course) about something you find interesting and want to explore not only
that will give you an alternative way to find jobs but the learning phase will
help you get more active in communities meet new people and so on . And
remember never stop exploring yourself and enjoying life .

------
advicehappy
I'm the same age and very happy (not married, no car). Everybody suffers. Life
is about the journey not the destination.

Project Happy: Remove negativity from your life including negative people, tv
news, news papers. Cut their drama. Visit humor/comedy sites instead.

Project Job: Make recruiters work for you, create a LinkedIn profile. Let them
do that shit while you watch movies.

Project girlfriend: Find a place to connect as there aren't many woman in tech
companies or tech university. Tinder, Dancing class (great excuse for
meet/touch). Mail-order bride (if you are in a hurry).

Project Car: this is a project that can be done only after project Job.

------
supernormal
This interview with James Murphy helps me when I feel a similar way -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYCz06bS380](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYCz06bS380)

~~~
devzill
Agreed, I knew exactly the one you meant before I even clicked the link. I
think about things mentioned in this interview all the time.

------
thuvvik
Hi tevlon,

You say "bioinformatics" and you already look incredible to me. That's it, for
real !

It's easy to feel overwhelmed by life, and it's important (as you do with this
post) to step back or aside, and ask for help. All we can do is point to you
how your life isn't as horrible as you see it, and is better than many. The
path to walk is yours.

20 jobs, and 4 rejections, for a french developer without a "engineer degree"
this is a daily routine, no kidding. I already know that saying it won't make
you feel better about what rejection means for you. Quite annoying, yes.. ,
quite frustrating.... yes! But not that harsh to consider, after all. Why?
Because most people will judge.. before anything, and trust me, you don't want
to work for this kind of persons. Some will talk to you, and choose not to
keep you. And with those guys it'll be fine to ask why they didn't want you.
And as you'll ask them, you'll realize that you were in competition with other
guys, feeling as overwhelmed as you do, and among them was one guy who was a
better fit than the others for the job.

Keep pushing ! Not being the best fit for one context doesn't mean being a
waste. But that kind of thoughts is for everyone to deal with, each one of us
keeps pushing. And you already pushed quite hard with THIS post.

In martial arts we say : "Being afraid is good, driven by fear is bad. Fight
fear, but do not kill it... for it'll save your life more than once."

There is a little comic strip that will help summarize everything :
[http://www.viruscomix.com/page528.html](http://www.viruscomix.com/page528.html)

What is feels like... What it is.. The correct word for your situation is
"perspective". And any advice asking you to seek for help is a good one.

As for perspective means "changing the point of view"

Keep pushing:[https://s-media-cache-
ak0.pinimg.com/originals/df/53/de/df53...](https://s-media-cache-
ak0.pinimg.com/originals/df/53/de/df53dee946c4b7f4218fce4b9cb268a4.jpg)

------
hero5
Hello! First take a deep breath. Then establish backup life plans which are
temporary until you can start working in the field you studied at university.
Having multiple plans gives flexibility. Find one person you trust and talk
with them about whatever you're comfortable with sharing. Temporary work
occupies the mind and allows you to work toward your goals so don't disregard
it. At this point, focus on building confidence and mental stability. Debt
will always be with us but you control it no matter how much you feel it
controls you.

------
arh68
There _is_ a place for you. You are not forgotten. Just hang in there. It's
okay to feel like shit when things are obviously going like shit. It's okay.
One day at a time.

------
tmaly
I remember graduating right when the dot-com burst. I could not find a job. It
was one of the worst times to graduate.

A friend I graduated with was here in the US on a student visa. He had an even
harder battle than I. But he sent out 2,000 resumes and did find a job. You
have to stick with it. Or as I picked up from Derek Sivers, you have to say
YES to a lot of opportunities when you are just starting out.

Definitely seek some professional help, but don't give up on life. There are
tons of opportunities out there.

------
allenleein
I was in your position 10 years ago while I was studying Finance. I wanna be a
successful trader so bad then but have no clue how to achieve it. After
college, I went to military service for almost 3 yrs. I have nothing then but
I told myself never give up my life.

After that, I became a trader and the $ I earned was way more than the friends
who got into the market earlier than me can earn.

Don't give up , then you will have everything you want in your life later.

------
sfrailsdev
You have depression, and it's warping your thinking whenever you think about
yourself. A sample size of 20 is tiny, and you can adjust your CV/resume.

It may be helpful for you to imagine a friend who is in your situation, and to
think about what advice you would give them. It's a quick hack to get around
the way that depression localizes on the self. So, pretend I had posted this,
instead of you, what would you tell me?

------
JSeymourATL
> I feel like, i can never "start a life",

Are you familiar with Cognitive Therapy? When you change the way you think,
you can change the way you feel.

The best book on this subject is Feeling Good by Dr. David Burns. Here's an
interview with the author >
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33G1Aue4cP8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33G1Aue4cP8)

------
jdmoreira
I'm sorry you are in this situation :|

For now, maybe you can consider suicide watch. I know it sucks but it might
save your life.

My other advice is that when you have a little energy you could look into
Stoicism. It's a coping strategy and it really helps! You might be able to
live a full and fulfilling life under stoicism practice despite of your
current situation / future situation.

I wish you the best. Stay strong <3

------
BrianMickeyD
Thats okay, you have one life. Its precious. Its never too late to start. A
guy I know started working at 35 and was a millionaire at 45

------
kleer001
> now suicidal

Call a suicide hotline.

800-273-8255

~~~
alphapapa
Not sure if that number will help him in Germany...? I posted a link to some
German hotlines below, but the "he mentioned downvoting and/or Christianity,
must downvote" zombies got to it. :/

------
joe563323
Universal Basic Income is almost getting real and reverse aging is showing
great promise. which means if you just hang on for another 1 or 2 decades you
may live forever with lots of leisure. Create universes(simulate in video
game) and play god or explore universe. The point is chances are we are at the
brink of utopia. Think about it.

------
bujak
Germany can be very depressing. Making and keeping friends that can keep you
up, pretty much impossible. Screw jobs, take a vacation semester, go travel a
bit, doesn't need to be expensive. You'll meet nice people, then finish your
studies and look for a job with some positive attitude. I've been through
this, believe me

------
meshr
Why do you care about society? You seem much smarter than them. Or do you want
just to be a slave of your physiology (genes) like most of the people?
Otherwise see
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWbRO1rWB9M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWbRO1rWB9M)

------
Rekaiden
Don't give up on finding a job.

You're probably going to need to make hundreds of applications to generate
dozens of interviews to lead to a job. The majority of places won't even
bother rejecting you. It's stressful, but you've already gotten a start.

------
alphapapa
This won't be popular on HN, but my job is to speak the truth and eat the
downvotes if necessary. :)

First, the truth is that God loves you and doesn't want you to end your life.
I don't know what you believe, but I am firmly convinced that that is the
truth. And being so, it overrides everything else in life. No matter how bad
things seem, no matter how bad things actually are, this life is not all there
is, and if we wash our sins away and live faithfully, we will inherit eternal
life. Not only does that give us hope for the distant future and in the next
life, but it gives us hope here and now, today, because God loves us and wants
what's best for us. Note, this is not a prosperity gospel--what God wants most
is for us to be faithful, and so he does not promise us an easy life, material
wealth, or even good health. But he does promise to give us what we need.

Secondly, from a worldly perspective, there are people who have overcome much
worse circumstances than you are in right now, to achieve their dreams,
prosperity, success, or just plain happiness. So there is empirical evidence
that you have hope for the future.

Thirdly, try to take a step back from yourself and your current feelings. Try
to recognize that how you feel right now is not necessarily how things
actually are. We humans are funny creatures, and our minds can run away from
us, leading us down dark, hypothetical paths that may bear no relation to
reality.

I don't know more than what you have said, so it might be that you have felt
this way every day for a long time, or it might be that you have good days and
bad days. Either way, you may feel differently later today, tomorrow, next
week, etc. Sometimes a good night's sleep is all I need to snap out of a blue
mood I find myself in when I get tired and stressed. It used to be that I
would spiral further down and down, but sometimes now I recognize that I'm not
being rational, that I am tired or hungry or stressed, and that I'll probably
feel differently tomorrow--and I usually do.

So it might be that, at this particular moment, you are at an acutely low
place, but it might be just a few hours until you're at a more even place.
Don't be too hard on yourself. Give yourself some time. Take care of yourself.
Eat a good meal, go to bed early (like, several hours early, give yourself
plenty of time to get extra sleep), and give yourself the best chance at
tomorrow.

One of the easiest patterns to fall into when depressed is to focus on
oneself. It's really easy to do this when you're alone. It may help to
envision the future life you would like to have, the future family you would
like to have, etc, and think of yourself as preparing to live that life,
preparing to serve those people. That means that you need to take care of
yourself now so you can take care of others in the future. You have many years
ahead of you and can do much good in the world. You can make many others'
lives better with your time, body, and mind. Think of yourself as a potential
force for good in the world, and consider yourself in training to serve.

Finally, if you have gone so far as to make plans for ending your life, you
are at the point that you need help immediately. I don't know anything of
Germany's social systems, but I'm sure there is a hotline or something like it
that you could call or reach out to for help. Stop what you're doing and make
that call right now. You owe it to yourself and those whom you will serve in
the future to save your life now. It won't be easy, but it's the right thing
to do, and you are strong enough to do it. I know you are, because you've
already reached out here. Don't think about it, don't rationalize about it,
just do it. All the other stuff can wait and can come in time. Take care of
yourself now. Take a step back and consider yourself a friend in need of your
help, and do what you would do for a beloved friend.

Here is some information I found for Germany. Please go here and reach out to
one of them now: [http://www.suicide.org/hotlines/international/germany-
suicid...](http://www.suicide.org/hotlines/international/germany-suicide-
hotlines.html)

I hope some of this is encouraging to you. I will be praying for you. Let me
know if you'd like to talk privately out-of-band, and I'll be happy to
correspond via email, etc.

------
kohn_jonathan
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H0hyleK9Vg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H0hyleK9Vg)

------
andyana
Some of the comments in here are making me feel bad... if anyone in the
Calgary area wants to hang out and talk, feel free to reach out to me.

------
pigeons
Good luck buddy, it gets better. Its nice to see all the people in this thread
being supportive.

------
CarlsonKeith
Never think about such things! Consult a psychiatrist

------
balazsdavid987
Suicide does not solve anything, it just transfers your pain to your family.

~~~
devzill
The problem is whether people like to admit or not is that it does work. And
as someone who thinks about killing themselves often, ironically one of the
only things that keeps me going is knowing suicide is always option if I can't
fight anymore.

I'll also mention a lot of people don't have close family/friends and either
way in my opinion it would be selfish of them to want me to continue living
and suffering just so they don't feel bad.

If the main reason your not ending your suffering is because you don't want
someone to feel bad then I'd argue you're dealing with depression in a
completely unproductive way.

~~~
balazsdavid987
> The problem is whether people like to admit or not is that it does work.

It seems to be impossible for me to admit anything when you are dead. What I
wanted to express that suicide is a selfish act and does not lead to anywhere.
On the other hand, I agree with you and admit that there could be situations
when your pain is so unbearable that suicide is reasonable, but imho OP's is
not in such circumstances.

