
WWII Propaganda Popularized Myth That Carrots Help You See in the Dark (2013) - samclemens
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/a-wwii-propaganda-campaign-popularized-the-myth-that-carrots-help-you-see-in-the-dark-28812484/
======
pseudolus
It's fascinating how wartime propaganda assumes a life of its own. Another
common myth spread by the English as a means of demeaning the leader of their
then French enemy during the Napoleonic Wars was that Napoleon Bonaparte was
short when in fact, and according to most contemporary descriptions, he was of
average height. Yet to this day a cottage industry has been built around
Napoleon's height that even persists to the present through our language - see
"Napoleon Complex".

~~~
tc313
My understanding is that Napoleon was of average height for a peasant, but was
short compared to well-fed officers.

~~~
pseudolus
I believe the consensus was that he was approximately 170cm (5'7") which was,
contemporaneously, fairly average. There is a surprisingly large number of
Google hits relating to why he was perceived to be short but none that offers
a definitive answer. The most compelling is that he was constantly surrounded
by large bodyguards which gave the public the impression that he was not tall.

~~~
peteretep
> he was constantly surrounded by large bodyguards

This (and indeed, the Coldstream Guards more generally) appear to be a
recurrent problem for French leaders:

[https://s-i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/237977/slide_237...](https://s-i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/237977/slide_237977_1211552_free.jpg)

------
dang
Thread from 2017:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13690676](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13690676)

And a nice weird carrot thread from 2009:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1191190](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1191190)

------
benj111
I don't think the article quite connects the dots.

As I understood it, it was mainly for homefront consumption, to encourage kids
to eat their veg. Pilots are cool ergo they can make veg cool, so the theory
goes.

------
vturner
The article discusses the "victory gardens" which are quite interesting to me.
Gardens I know of in the US zone 6 (without grow lights that help start the
season early) are productive a few months of the year. Early spring you get
leafy vegetables, but the bulk comes July/August and wanes in September. This
schedule certainly doesn't seem like a major help in war time, so did they do
something else? Preservation, better soil so food lasted longer,different
planting varieties that produce spring - fall?

~~~
graeme
All food used to come from those growing periods. I think you grew certain
kinds of tubers that could be stored over winter in a root cellar or made into
preserves.

If you look at the picture on Wikipedia, potatoes and onions and carrots are
prominent:
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_garden](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_garden)

That said I don't know the answer and I'd be curious what they did in winter
in wartime.

~~~
Retric
Preservation is largely unnecessary. If a garden provides say 1 month of food
for a family, then that family buys less food for that month. Being self
sufficient was possible, but takes significant labor and land.

~~~
graeme
This sounds plausible, but....you couldn't just "buy" more food into the
economy in winter. You had to store it somehow.

A victory garden would let other farms concentrate on more storable foods
though, if the gardens accounted for greens in summer.

But actual victory gardens had storable foods, I think.

~~~
Retric
That was already happening.

Large scale agriculture was already set up to do long term preservation.
People normally eat storable foods every month. Bread for example generally
does not last long, but it’s made from grains that could have been harvested
2+ years ago. Modern preservation methods can push that to 10+ years at minor
cost.

That said, canning and other food storage was common. It was simply not a
major focus of victory gardens. Otherwise the focus would have been on
potatoes and other easily preserved foods not vegetables.

------
stcredzero
My mother remembers getting lightly boiled potatoes which were let to cool,
put on a stick, then sprinkled with sugar. (Korea in the 50's.) Unlike the
little girls in the picture, she says she was delighted to get one of those.

With regards to WWII and night vision, the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) at the
time had the most effective non-radar night fighting training and techniques.
Some of the worst defeats dished out by the IJN to the USN were due to their
excellent night fighting and an over-reliance by the US on nascent RADAR
technology.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWEEHOKcTnA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWEEHOKcTnA)

That said, the US radar-laid guns were a game changer. In some interpretations
of the Battle off Samar, the US destroyers created such a high density of
hits, that Vice Admiral Takeo Kurita mistakenly identified those ships as
cruisers and mistakenly identified the whole group as much stronger, which
ended up saving the landing force.

~~~
WalterBright
Radar-guided guns had the practical effect of doubling the firepower, due to
more accurate shooting. This is an absolutely enormous advantage.

------
aitchnyu
I heard the counter that Germany had ground based radar and would develop
airborne radar later, so the propaganda was not helpful. Can somebody answer?

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_in_World_War_II#Germany](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_in_World_War_II#Germany)

> In February 1943, a British bomber containing a H2S radar was shot down over
> the Netherlands, and the 10-cm magnetron was found intact. In short order,
> the secret of making successful magnetrons was discovered, and microwave
> radar development started.

> In June 1941, an RAF bomber, equipped with an ASV (Air-to-Surface Vessel) Mk
> II radar, made an emergency landing in France. Although the crew had
> attempted to destroy the set, the remains were sufficient for the German
> Laboratory for Aviation to discern the operation and its function. Tests
> indicated the merits of such a radar, and Wolfgang Martini also saw the
> value and tasked Lorenz to develop a similar system.

~~~
hollerith
During the Battle of Britain (1940) the Brits used a radar network to track
German planes and successfully concealed the existence of the network from the
Germans (using the carrot propaganda and other means).

The stations of the radar network were a string of about a dozen wooden
towers, each about 100 feet tall, situated along the east coast of Britain. If
the German knew that they were radar stations, they probably would have
destroyed them and prevented Britain from rebuilding them. Without the radar
network, the Royal Air Force probably would've been destroyed in the Battle of
Britain, and the Royal Air Force was the only thing preventing the Germans
from invading across the English Channel.

So if it helped keep the Germans ignorant of the British radar network until
the Germans gave up trying to destroy the Royal Air Force in September 1940,
it was monumentally helpful regardless of what happened after September 1940.

~~~
zelos
> the Royal Air Force was the only thing preventing the Germans from invading
> across the English Channel.

Apart from the Royal Navy, of course. I think the general consensus now is
that Germany couldn't have sucessfully invaded the UK, even if it had won the
Battle of Britain?

~~~
hollerith
Naval ships are essentially artillery platforms that can reach 10 or more
miles inland, but over the first 3 or 4 years of thewar the Royal Navy never
dared to use these platforms against any of the coastlines (Norway, Northern
France, Germany itself, Poland) occupied by the Germans except when they had
to cover the evacuation of their Expeditionary Force at Dunkirk and except for
a few small raids relying on the element of surprise. (What they did instead
was to use subs to land commandos on the coast.)

And of course by D-Day the Luftwaffe had been mostly destroyed relative to
what it was in 1940.

So, no, I tend to doubt that if the RAF had been destroyed, the Royal Navy
could have prevented the German army from making a crossing of the English
Channel.

~~~
dctoedt
> _Naval ships are essentially artillery platforms that can reach 10 or more
> miles inland ...._

Naval ships also are just a bit useful for control of the sea; indeed,
historically that's been arguably the foremost purpose of the navies of island
nations such as the UK and U.S.

If the Germans had tried to invade Britain, the Royal Navy would have thrown
in every last ship it had to attack the German troop transports in the
Channel. (I'm paraphrasing Herman Wouk here.) The RN ships would have been
extremely vulnerable to U-boat and E-boat attack there, of course (just as the
U.S. Navy and RN are worried about in today's Strait of Hormuz). The RN would
also have been vulnerable to air attack (as the British, U.S., Dutch, and
Japanese navies learned at terrible cost in the Pacific War), especially if
the Luftwaffe had previously gained mastery of the skies over the Channel. But
as the saying goes, desperate times call for desperate measures.

~~~
hollerith
If they had gained air supremacy over the Channel, the German's first move
probably would've been to start shelling the southern coast of Britain using a
low-value naval asset. If the Brits send in a warship to stop the shelling,
attack it with the Luftwaffe. If the Brits don't send a warship, keep on
shelling with the goal of preparing a segment of the coast for the landing of
German troops.

The Luftwaffe had about 2600 planes in 1940 and the ability to build as many
airstrips as they pleased all along one border of the Channel. What do you
think the chances were of a British ship or task force's surviving a single
mission into the Channel? I agree with what you're saying that the Brits
would've been willing to risk their entire Navy to stop an invasion of the
homeland (which BTW was the original reason for the creation of their Navy
centuries ago) but would that have been enough? (And if they lost most of
their Navy, would they have been able to continue to feed their population?
Remember that the Brits were dependent on food from overseas.)

If some power wants to attack a US aircraft carrier, they face the formidable
task of finding it first. On the open ocean this is very hard: during the Cold
War, the Soviets deployed an _entire constellation_ of satellites for the sole
purpose of locating US carriers in the North Atlantic (then transmitting the
location to their submarines and long-range bombers). I mention this because
the reputation for awesomeness earned by the British Navy before WW II was
earned mainly in unconfined waters; against air power and subs, it is much
less powerful in the confined waters of the Channel.

Also, look what happened to the British Pacific Fleet the next year when it
dared to sail within range of Japanese aviation assets. And I think that
happened in unconfined waters.

~~~
garyscary
Check out this actual war game they conducted in 1974 where they concluded
that the invasion would have been a resounding failure.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sea_Lion_(wargame)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sea_Lion_\(wargame\))

~~~
abecedarius
That says they assumed a Germany with no air supremacy yet.

~~~
garyscary
Based on the simulations they ran according to historical data, they concluded
that the Germans would have thought they had air supremancy even if that was
impossible, even with the Germans continuing to bomb RAF bases long after they
switched to cities.

Honestly, I figured the GP would get a kick out of reading about a
hypothetical war game of the scenario they envisioned.

------
yakshaving_jgt
Relevant QI part:
[https://youtu.be/0PzNDMCT0rg?t=1495](https://youtu.be/0PzNDMCT0rg?t=1495)

EDIT: Actually, a better relevant QI part:
[https://youtu.be/7Quyte7zN70?t=228](https://youtu.be/7Quyte7zN70?t=228)

------
lootsauce
The last image of Disney carrot characters is absolutely terrifying.

------
stunt
Britain was really good at running propaganda during WWII. I once read how
they used radio to change the public support and opinion about Iranian King
(Reza Shah) by telling fake and often scary stories about how he treated his
people because he wasn't taking a side on second world war and Iran was
neutral. After running the propaganda British and the Soviet invaded Iran to
secure their oil fields as supply lines for allies and they replaced the king
easily.

~~~
ced
Can anybody explain to me how British & France culture felt about colonialism
post-WWII? Especially for France, I would have expected that "being invaded
and exploited by a foreign nation" would suddenly take a completely different
moral outlook, but no, they resist Algeria separating. Why?

Semi-relevant Wikipedia:

 _When Britain reached out to the US asking for help in the war, the US
offered help contingent on Britain decolonizing post WW2, and that agreement
was codified in the Atlantic charter. The decolonization of Britain (post war)
also meant that US and other countries would possibly have access to markets
to sell goods that were previously under British Empire-which was not
accessible to them then[86][87] To bring about these changes, the
establishment of UN following World War 2 codified sovereignty for nations,
and encouraged free trade. The war also forced the British to come to an
agreement with Indian leaders to grant them freedom if they helped with war
efforts since India had one of largest armies.[88] Also, following WW2, it was
untenable for British to raise capital on its own to keep its colonies. They
needed to rely on America and did via the Marshall Plan to rebuild their
country._

~~~
hylaride
It's always different when YOU'RE the colonizer/invader bringing civilization.

The French tried harder than almost anybody else to maintain their colonial
empire. The Vietnam war would have been several orders of magnitude less
likely to have happened if France just granted French Indochina independence.

The independence of Algeria was also extremely traumatic for France (De Gaulle
was almost assassinated by Pieds-Noirs (white french born in Africa)). It's a
fascinating story that involves storied history that gets ingrained into your
culture. Keep in mind, Algeria was a full department of France (but the
nonwhites had less political power), so it'd be a lot like a state or province
leaving in other countries. You might very well think it'd be disastrous
socially and economically, not to mention absorbing the people who wanted to
remain part of the country it's leaving (which is what happened, a lot of
bitter french whites and natives headed to France, but never felt truly at
home). It's best to just read up here:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algerian_War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algerian_War)

The British _wanted_ to keep their empire, but they were broke after the war.
There were some futile attempts to keep what they had left (see the Suez
crisis), but it rarely panned out. Most attempts at managed decolonization
resulted in white minority-declared independence in places like Africa (See
Rhodesia and South Africa).

There were several other attempts to maintain their colonies by more minor
European powers that were invaded during the war as well, such as the Dutch
(Indonesia), and Belgium (Congo).

~~~
refurb
And the US involvement in Vietnam independence was closely tied to the US
_needing_ France for a united NATO front against Russia (at least in the
beginning). Without US support for keeping IndoChina, France was threatening
to not be a part of NATO.

So when someone tells you "This was happened because of X", you ignore what
they say as these conflicts are _always_ complicated and have a long history.

------
gshdg
FWIW, severe vitamin A deficiency _does_ harm eyesight. But past a certain
healthy level it doesn’t help.

~~~
GuB-42
Same idea for vitamin C.

Vitamin C deficiency cause fatigue but eating large doses of vitamin C won't
help you stay awake. In fact, it is unlikely to do anything at all, you will
just piss all the excess off.

~~~
openasocket
Vitamin A is actually worse because it is fat soluble, not water soluble like
Vitamin C. If you consume too much Vitamin A, you don't pee it out, it gets
stored in your fat cells. And because it stays in your system it can build up
to toxic levels and you get hypervitaminosis.

Fun fact, there's a drug to treat severe acne called Accutane (isotretinoin).
It's really for the severe cases of acne, because there are a ton of side
effects (see
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotretinoin#Adverse_effects](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotretinoin#Adverse_effects)
) and if you get pregnant while on it there will be severe birth defects.
Anyway, this drug is a retinoid, which means it is essentially just large
doses of vitamin A.

~~~
cr0sh
> If you consume too much Vitamin A, you don't pee it out, it gets stored in
> your fat cells. And because it stays in your system it can build up to toxic
> levels and you get hypervitaminosis.

Not long back I heard about this happening to a small child.

Apparently, he and his mother had immigrated to the United States from - IIRC
- a former Eastern European country. She didn't speak english, and wasn't
familiar with certain customs and such here, so when one day they went inside
a CVS or Walgreens, when her son asked her for some gummy candies, she
purchased a bottle of such for him.

Well - you can see where this is going.

The woman had no idea that such candy here in the US wasn't sold in bottles,
and that what she had purchased was gummy vitamins. Her son ended up eating
the whole bottle. Over a couple of weeks or so, she ended up getting him
multiple bottles which he ate, until he became sick and she took him to the
hospital.

From what I recall, the doctors treating him weren't sure what was happening,
because they had never seen the symptoms or such - but ultimately they figured
out what happened, and treated him for hypervitaminosis. He survived and is
supposedly ok condition today.

Sadly I can't find the original article I read, but it was over a year ago,
IIRC. My details may be wrong, but the overall gist isn't from what I recall:
That a new immigrant mother to the US, who didn't speak or understand English,
purchased what she thought was candy for her child and it turned out to be
vitamins which caused an overdose where she had to take him to the hospital.

~~~
justtopostthis3
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZ6nREONy_4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZ6nREONy_4)

------
tomhoward
An earlier discussion 2 years ago:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13690676](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13690676)

(No, not a dupe, link given for interest purposes.)

------
ru999gol
I thought that was something Minecraft came up with

