
Activists crowdsource escape from North Korea - ramisms
http://america.aljazeera.com/watch/shows/the-stream/the-stream-officialblog/2013/12/27/north-korea-crowdsourcingescape.html
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notdonspaulding
Things like this are what make me a "bad" libertarian. Strict libertarians are
all about keeping our nose (and military) out of other people's business. Put
yourself in the POTUS' shoes, as the Commander-in-Chief of one of the largest
potential forces for good the world has ever known, and tell me why we aren't
rescuing the _entire country_ of North Korea?

~~~
natrius
Yes, let's start a land war in Asia against a country with nuclear weapons and
an arsenal of conventional weapons pointed at the people of Seoul.

Feel free to define "rescuing the entire country of North Korea" if you feel
I've misinterpreted you.

~~~
gregw134
I thought America's presence in Korea was imperialist until I went to Seoul in
April and walked around trying to forget about the missiles that were pointed
at my head. All of a sudden I discovered a newfound appreciation for American
foreign policy, despite its faults.

~~~
jblow
Did you talk to any Korean citizens while you were there? All the ones I
walked to wanted us gone.

~~~
cema
Did you talk to the older ones or only younger ones? There seems to be a
difference.

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apendleton
Random tidbit, but Project for Awesome is run by John and Hank Green, who live
in Indiana and Montana, respectively, so I'm not sure where they got the
notion that it's a South Korea-based organization. Pretty poor background on
that one.

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ivanbrussik
the mass exodus of top war leaders in the country was a start. some brave
souls will soon sacrifice their life and assassinate the rest & hopefully
overthrow / mutiny will take place liberating all. </my fantasy>

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notastartup
I have another idea. buy hundreds of drones, attach american dollars, attach
non perishable food, guns, communication device, ammunition, manuals for
guerilla warfare. drop that shit all over North Korea outside of Pyongyang.
It'd be Kim's worst nightmare when civilians are armed and not starving and
have suddenly very motivated. The North Korean army is weak and starving, they
have no fuel reserves to power their tanks (apart from shitty military
parades), jets, navy. Only a matter of time. Just need funding from the CIA
and we are good to go.

~~~
yongjik
Oh, great, American expansionism (let CIA fund "freedom fighters" against
villains; what could possibly go wrong?) combined with the American mythology
that dictators are somehow afraid of armed people.

That "weak and starving" North Korean army would cut through a town-ful of
untrained militia like knife going through butter. Really, stop fantasizing
about armed revolution just because it once worked for your ancestor 200 years
ago. It fails more often than not, and with near certainty when someone
foreign nation has the bright idea of arming insurgents.

~~~
notastartup
I think if you asked a North Korean today if they wanted "American
expansionism" or their current state of affairs, the answer would be what any
starving person would do, choose the lesser of two evils that feeds them.

I hardly think North Koreans would have a problem with democracy and freedom
that feeds them than their leader which have failed them and forced to praise
them at gun point.

It's funny because lot of left-leaning South Koreans have a naive view of
their Northern cousins. News flash: North Korea is a time travel to Chosun
Dynasty gone horribly wrong, nothing to do with communism. Some actually
believe South Korea is under worse condition because of Uncle Sam that saved
the country just as they were about to get overrun by Kim Il Sung, than under
Japanese Imperial rule because of "democracy and freedom". I invite these
people to defect to the North, and see why there's streams of North Koreans
going the other way and staring at you like you are crazy.

Vive la revolucion!

~~~
yongjik
Well, I concede that some South Koreans have a very naive view of North Korea,
but it doesn't logically follow that the US saved South Korea from similar
fate. In fact, historical economic data shows that South Korea was as shitty
as North Korea in its early years[1]. Nor was its pro-American leader Rhee
much better in terms of human rights: he murdered some 100k-200k of his own
people[2] for being communists (many of them were anything but).

So, what you propose offering to North Koreans is not in fact "democracy and
freedom". With high chance, you're offering a civil war, followed by yet
another dictator with horrible human right records, except that he would have
close friends in Washington DC instead of Beijing, and the US will tolerate
this dictator because at least he's fighting bad guys and giving a semblance
of "stability" in the region. Honestly I don't think the US could make a
better outcome even if it wanted to (which is another question).

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Two_koreas_gdp_1950_1977.j...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Two_koreas_gdp_1950_1977.jpg)
[2]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodo_League_massacre](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodo_League_massacre)

~~~
notastartup
Note that the massacre happened during Korean War. If Kim Il Sung hadn't
invaded South, none of this would've happened.

North Korea had an edge in terms of economic power up until Park Chung Hee
came into power and began revitalizing the economy. Again, apples and oranges
when it comes to comparing North and South. The other is completely void of
rationality.

Highly doubt a civil war will be allowed to go alone. United States and South
Korea have clear interest to secure nuclear facilities as a top priority.
Can't let that fall into another dictator.

The real problem is China, as it sees North Korea as a buffer.

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xivzgrev
Why is North Korea such a hot topic these days? Is the US so free of problems,
and other countries so free of human tragedies, that we can focus A LOT of our
attention on North Korea?

I honestly think it's because North Korea is the easiest thing to paint as
"the bad guys". Lots of easy "evil bits" for the media to cling on to:

They starve their people! They make people participate in charades! They
withhold technology advances from their citizens!

But did you know there are countries with higher rates of undernourishment?
How often have you seen these countries in the news?

-Zambia -Ethiopia -Mozambique -Haiti -Eritea

[http://documents.wfp.org/stellent/groups/public/documents/co...](http://documents.wfp.org/stellent/groups/public/documents/communications/wfp260272.pdf)

Oh that's right. There's not as much "news worthy" crazy happening in those
countries. Maybe that's on purpose?

[http://www.rightsidenews.com/2013012931871/world/geopolitica...](http://www.rightsidenews.com/2013012931871/world/geopolitical/ferocious-
weak-and-crazy-the-north-korean-strategy.html)

Or maybe it's because we perceive the government is more "at fault" for the
situation in North Korea as opposed to the above mentioned countries.

But is that fair? Aren't you equally liable for a starving population whether
you've explicitly deprioritized it or not?

Let me wrap this up by saying 1) It's great you care about the situation in
North Korea. It's terrible. 2) I hope that you'll consider caring about other
countries facing similar humanitarian crises. I hope that you consider where
to send your money weighing the facts as opposed to which is brought to your
attention by the news.

~~~
Crito
What part of a country with concentration camps operating for _decades_ would
_not_ catch our attention?

This sort of comment you have just made is total bullshit: If you are
concerned that the situation in Haiti is not getting enough attention, then
complain that the situation in Haiti is not getting enough attention. _Don 't_
complain that the situation in North Korea is getting too much attention.
North Korea deserves all the attention it gets. We don't need to
"deprioritize" our concern with North Korea to have some concern "left over"
for Haiti. The situation with North Korea is not being exaggerated into being
something worse than it really is.

