

How browsers make money, or why Google needs Firefox - ukdm
http://www.extremetech.com/internet/92558-how-browsers-make-money-or-why-google-needs-firefox/1

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suprgeek
The bi(n)g assumption the article makes is: Firefox switches to Bing from
Google and still continues to be equally popular in the medium/long run.

There are multiple possible scenarios -

Post such a shift FFs market share erodes quickly and Microsoft basically
bought a Lemon. Chrome becomes even more powerful.

Post such a Shift FFs market share is simlar to that it enjoys today -
Microsoft bought some traffic but a a large majority of FF users switch the
search engine back to Google. Microsoft bought a sort of Lemon

Post a shift - FF market share stable/increases and lots of people do not
change default search - Microsoft bought a winner and Article makes sense.

I do not see #3 as the most likely outcome.

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LiveTheDream
I really do not see #3 as being so unlikely. How many people actually change
their default search engines? We are talking about Normals, not just tech-
savvy people.

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markokocic
Normals are afraid of menu items, especially "Tools", "Options" and
"Preferences".

And they click "Yes" or "Ok" on any dialog without reading ;)

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nextparadigms
Google shouldn't make Firefox their enemy anyway. Together with Firefox they
can actually "not care" if Microsoft agrees with new standards or not (like
say, WebGL). Together they can push a lot more stuff out there and transform
them into standards.

~~~
gcp
This one is quite tricky. Google shares Webkit with Apple, so they sure can
ram new stuff through that way. Together they control the majority of the
mobile market.

The Amazon Kindle reader was a nice example of that, working on Chrome and
Safari, but not Firefox, due to competing web-database standards being
implemented.

H.264 vs WebM is another one. Google made a lot of noise about dropping H.264
for WebM, Firefox actually did so (because they had no choice, anyway), but
Chrome still ships with H.264 support.

So I don't have the impression there are real fronts as far as promoting web
standards are concerned. For better or worse.

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dangoor
I have to disagree. Yes, Kindle reader came out using Web SQL DB, but that
spec is dead and for good reasons. I don't know how far along IE is at
supporting IndexedDB, but it won't be long before Firefox, Chrome and IE all
support IndexedDB and then it will make plenty of sense for Amazon to build
Kindle Reader on top of that. From what I read, iOS 5 doesn't support
IndexedDB, sadly. But it will in time.

I'm still surprised that no one has written an IndexedDB shim on top of Web
SQL DB.

~~~
gcp
But with what do you disagree? That WebSQL and IndexedDB are competing
standards? From the point of view of a web developer, they must be, or we
wouldn't have gotten into this situation in the first place.

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robryan
Firefox existing helps Chrome become a better browser, both by providing new
tech and methods which Chrome can borrow from and also to further motivate the
Chrome team to continue pushing to be the best browser. We have all seen which
way innovation goes when the browser market is dominated by one player.

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nhoss2
I wonder what would happen if somehow duckduckgo managed to be the default
firefox search engine. Their results compared to google aren't bad at all.

~~~
warthurton
On my Firefox it is the default search engine.

Seriously, I was thinking the same thing a couple of days ago when I
downloaded FF Beta 6. Adblock used to be my first installed extension, now DDG
SSL search is. Right after that I "fix" the fallback address bar search as
well.

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nodata
How much does Opera earn with their auctions?

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mrsebastian
Not sure exactly, but its financial doc for 2010 is here:
<http://media.opera.com/media/finance/2010/annual-report.pdf>

Bottom of page 37 says that Opera made 242,000,000 NOK from its desktop
browser, which is mainly from search revenue (about $43 million)

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nwjsmith
The same argument for Google not funding FF could be made for Microsoft.

Firefox has demolished Internet Explorer's market share over the years, and
it's always been an important product for MS. Arguably more important than
Bing (which continues to hemorrhage money).

I don't see how funding Firefox would be any more in Microsoft's interest than
in Google's.

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mattmanser
Could Firefox change their default search engine to Bing? Without losing users
and causing a huge flame war?

I doubt it.

Google should stop paying just to see that flamewar, would be fun.

'Losing' firefox wouldn't be a massive blow, people who use firefox know how
to change the default search engine. All that will happen is that they'll be a
massive amount of hate directed at firefox for trying to force bing down their
throat.

I expect Google to keep paying so they can pretend there's some sort of
competition in the search market though. 'But we had to pay for firefox's
search box!'.

~~~
dagw
I imagine the vast vast majority of Firefox users don't know how to change the
default search engine, and probably wouldn't care to do so even if they did.
Sure there will be a few thousand angry people shouting on forums and mailing
lists and threatening boycotts, but the other 90+% of the Firefox user base
will be totally unaware of this. Firefox is not a geeky niche product anymore,
but the default browser of huge and growing number of normal internet users.

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Wilduck
It's not that these people would be "totally unaware" if suddenly their
searches defaulted to Bing.

I imagine it would be disconcerting in the same sort of way that having rusty
water shoot out of your shower for a second or two every morning would be.
It's not the end of the world, you don't know how to fix it, but after a
couple seconds it's not like it really matters.

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myared
I miss the days when Google was trying to chip away at Microsoft and paid
websites $1 per Firefox download/install. To me, the article is really a heads
up for Microsoft. If a channel for search revenue is available, go get it.

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pointyhat
So Google owns Firefox pretty much. That's a bad situation for Mozilla.

~~~
gcp
I think the article actually makes the opposite point, i.e. that Google needs
Firefox more than Mozilla needs Google.

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cageface
Firefox is bleeding market share as it is. Pulling people's favorite search
engine out from under them is only going to goose the uptake of Chrome.

Hopefully Google and Mozilla both appreciate they have more to gain by
cooperating.

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Shorel
With current trends, in some years Google will need Mozilla as much as it
needs Opera.

~~~
ootachi
Yes. Good riddance IMO. Firefox has become a bloated beast over the years,
Mozilla is nothing but obstructionist these days, and the sooner the entire
web moves to WebKit the better.

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dawjan
Firefox should use Bing as default search engine is required to survive

So if Firefox switch to Bing will be competition, but now Google has monopol

