
Sweden asks to meet Julian Assange inside Ecuador embassy - aestetix
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/jun/20/sweden-meet-julian-assange-inside-ecuador-embassy-wikileaks
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benevol
Sweden's long-standing refusal to interview Assange in Ecuador's embassy was
most probably due to pressure from the US. I wonder what element could have
changed that.

Edit: Or nothing at all has changed and the aim of the visit is purely
"discovery".

~~~
gaius
Nonsense. If you are wanted for a crime there is no country on Earth that lets
you dictate to the police when and where they can have a word with you.

~~~
Bartweiss
That's not what happened though. He dictated where the police were _capable_
of having a word with him, and they chose not to do so there.

It's totally possible that there are legitimate reasons for that (if you
already have enough evidence to convict, there would be no reason to
'interview' someone except in an arrest-friendly setting), but it's still a
worthwhile distinction. This isn't someone calling up the police and going
"I'll talk to you, but only if you agree to meet me at Starbucks." It's
someone leveraging international law to leave the police with only one option.

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6stringmerc
For the longest time I had my philosophical issues with WikiLeaks so stayed
away. Sure, I'd read stories via mainstream reporting, but getting into the
actual 'effort' or 'movement' wasn't (and still isn't) my cup of tea. From a
distance, things seemed rather dramatic as well.

I'm rather certain the article "Ghosting" by Andrew O'Hagan is something I
found through HN, and it was an eye opening long read:
[http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n05/andrew-
ohagan/ghosting](http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n05/andrew-ohagan/ghosting)

It certainly influenced my perspective of Assange's decisions, or choices,
regarding himself (past, present, future). The story continues, as this
article shows.

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bArray
I wouldn't be surprised if Assange is found not guilty by the Swedish
authorities and then Assange thinks he is free and leaves the embassy (which
he plans to do). (I think the US could get Sweden to do that on the promise
they have a worse sentence for him.) Meanwhile, the UK suddenly finds the UN's
ruling as fair and extradite him to the US. If we're honest, the only reason
the UK hasn't so far is because they are worried about the circumstances of
doing so. If not for that, they really couldn't care and would probably use
the favour with the US at another time.

What's really horrible here is that the UN seems to exist to serve the US
agenda. I wonder whether if push come to shove, if other Countries in the UN
would get help at all? After all, they turned a blind eye to Ukraine because
they didn't want to deal with Russia.

Whilst there are still so many games at play, I think Assange is much better
off where he is. I think Assange needs to find some funding from somewhere
(shouldn't be too difficult) and upgrade that internet connection. Until all
the cards are revealed he's probably going to be there a while.

~~~
Trombone12
What is never clear in these convoluted conspiracies is why the United "yes
we'll go to war with Irak with you US" Kingdom would not extradite Assange so
that it would be necessary to ask Sweden to do it.

~~~
reitanqild
I heard it was because he was a (high-profile) British citizen.

~~~
ascorbic
He's Australian.

~~~
reitanqild
I though Australians were British. Seems I am wrong though. Anyone care to
enlighten me?

~~~
_acme
Simple: Australians are not citizens of the United Kingdom. Neither are
Canadians, French or Germans. What additional enlightenment is necessary?

~~~
reitanqild
That was enough : )

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Pirate-of-SV
I tried to find some more information about this. Seems like the article is
referring to a request that was made in March 2016 [1] by the Swedish
Prosecution Authority.

Their timeline of "The Assange Matter" in Swedish is a bit more detailed [2]

[1] (English) [https://www.aklagare.se/nyheter-press/for-media/the-
assange-...](https://www.aklagare.se/nyheter-press/for-media/the-assange-
matter/)

[2] (Swedish) [https://www.aklagare.se/nyheter-press/for-
media/assangearend...](https://www.aklagare.se/nyheter-press/for-
media/assangearendet/kronologi/)

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tellarin
Finally! Hope this finally moves ahead. The guys has been stuck there in
'house arrest' for years.

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walrus01
"the internet collapses the whole time" ? I really wonder what's going on from
a layer 1/2 perspective their with last mile connection and ISPs. I'm assuming
the british authorities haven't tried to stop the Ecuadorians from ordering
ordinary internet service, though of course anything going into/out of there
is subject to a great deal of scrutiny and signals intelligence attention.

In that part of London they _should_ be able to obtain a fairly ordinary VDSL2
17a profile last mile connection which will be anywhere from 55 to 85 Mbps
symmetric depending on how shitty the POTS phone wiring is, and how close the
DSLAM is to the premises.

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Neil44
Could the timing of this somehow be Brexit related?

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tptacek
Probably not. The ECHR is formally part of the UK's law; simply exiting the EU
won't revoke it. Brexit would mean that no part of Assange's case would be
appealable to the European Court of Justice while Assange was in the UK, but
that seems like less a big deal.

This probably has more to do with the UN working group findings from earlier
this year, and with the fact that Assange has imposed on himself a longer
period of house arrest than he probably would have faced even if he'd been
found guilty in Sweden.

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ed_blackburn
He'd still be in breach of his original bail conditions if Sweden dropped the
charges and risks being arrested for breach of bail conditions if he were to
leave the embassy.

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ff10
How likely is this to be some kind of bait'n'switch? Scenario: Swedish
diplomats enter negotiations – raising delusive hope in Assange and everyone
in the Embassy – with the intention to never follow with any feasible
agreement in order to make Assange give up so he can deal with his health
issues.

~~~
Kristine1975
It seems to me that it's the Swedish police that agreed to talk to Assange in
the embassy. Not Swedish diplomats.

~~~
kalleboo
And to expound on that, the foreign minister is not allowed to influence the
police in Sweden (
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministerstyre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministerstyre)
). Although there have been cases where this has happened (IIRC the US cable
leaks revealed there was ministerial interference in the Pirate Bay case)

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amelius
For how long has he been in that embassy? Versus how much sentence would he
get from a possible conviction?

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anotheryou
So well timed after the 5th(?) anniversary of Assange moving in to the embassy
it sounds like this was the plan for a while: "if we can't make him leave in 5
years, we might as well interview him there before any case becomes invalid."

~~~
themartorana
Does Sweden have a statue of limitations on rape?

~~~
gabeochoa
"Some in the Foreign Office fear a permanent impasse between the UK and
Ecuador, and that Assange will stay in the embassy until 2020, by which time a
statute of limitations applies under Swedish law on the rape case."

Its implied 10(?) years in the article

~~~
themartorana
In that case, he's more than half-way there. That doesn't have anything to do
with his ailing health, but it's interesting to note.

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sorenjan
It surprises me that HN is so full of conspiracy theorists. Assange is stuck
in the embassy of a less than ideal country regarding freedom of press etc
because of his own actions, and he's free to leave at any time. When he does,
he will get arrested by English police, extradited to Sweden, and questioned
regarding alleged rape. If the prosecutor thinks he's guilty he will get
arrested, and he will stand trial in Sweden.

Nothing in this case supports any of the scare tactics he himself and parts of
the Internet is using. Sweden isn't a better country to extradite him to the
US from than the UK. Sweden isn't legally allowed to extradite him after he's
been extradited from the UK. He was in the UK for months before he started
hiding in the embassy. He is not in house arrest, he's fleeing the justice
system of two well developed western countries. Sweden's government can't give
any guarantees that he's been asking for, because it's against Swedish law for
the government to interfere in legal matters. It's all a bunch of FUD, and
people seem to eat it up because it fits their narrative.

~~~
charlesdm
Possibly. However, if it was your life on the line, wouldn't you want
assurances? I know I would. Especially if you look at what happened to others.

You state that Sweden can't extradite him to the US. Given the fact that most
of the laws created in most western countries (ranging from tax law to civil
law) are often not extremely well defined (or frankly not even well thought
out / put together), and can often easily be interpreted in very different
ways by different judges, I can totally understand his point of view.

At the end of the day, as long as Ecuador doesn't kick him out, all he has to
do is wait for the statute of limitations to expire. He's got leverage. If
Sweden really wanted a solution to this, they would've done this years ago.

~~~
ProfChronos
"You state that Sweden can't extradite him to the US. Given the fact that most
of the laws created in most Western countries (ranging from tax law to civil
law) are often not extremely well defined, and can be interpreted in different
ways by different judges, I can totally understand his point of view." => It
is not a matter of justice system (common law vs civil law) or law definition,
but a matter of independence. And when it comes to independence, Europe has
shown a strong will not to extradite people to the US. Add the media pressure
around Assange's case and you get a good assurance that he won't be extradited
to the US

~~~
render_ceasar
Then again this actually happened:

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition#Swed...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition#Sweden)

~~~
ProfChronos
It happened for alleged terrorists no one knew about - apart from people
working in security/intelligence/military services - and Sweden felt extremely
shameful. Not sure they want to do that again with somebody almost every has
heard of and who hasn't been a threat to Sweden

~~~
render_ceasar
To paraphrase grandparent, if it were you, would you be willing to risk it? It
won't be much consolation to you if it happens and somebody in Sweden might
feel ashamed about it.

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sfifs
It appears US and allied governments have achieved much of what they wanted to
anyway by immobilising Assagne in a small building with limited connectivity.
This is possibly more valuable than highly publicised trial etc if he were in
fact actually extradited.

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jackweirdy
"Assange is suffering deteriorating health, he has a small space and little
light. It is an embassy under siege. It is very difficult to make a phone
call, the internet collapses the whole time, pictures are taken as people
enter and leave the building"

Unusual that an embassy would have internet problems. Sounds like GCHQ have a
van in the street...

~~~
jrgv
Maybe they route all traffic through a VPN to Ecuador or something like that?

I doubt that GCHQ would be the reason for internet problems; even if they have
"a van in the street", they'd have no incentive to impact the quality of the
connection that they monitor.

~~~
andy_ppp
Unless incompetence. Or malice.

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richmarr
It's terrifying that Assange's self-preservation might put Trump in the
Whitehouse.

~~~
wernercd
It's terrifying that Clinton might get into the Whitehouse. I mean... are
there really THAT many stupid voters?

Trump... faaaaaar from perfect. But the reason he's made it as far as he has?
Because people are sick of career politicians (Jeb, Marco, Cruz, etc) who make
promises then proceed to fuck the voters.

Hillary is the worst of the worst examples of Corrupt Rich White Bought-And-
Paid-For Politicians.

~~~
vertex-four
Trump is, as far as I'm aware, just as bought and paid for. He's just also not
a career politician, but that doesn't mean he's not figured out how things get
done at that level. Although best case scenario, all the career politicians
decide they don't like an outsider and prevent him from doing anything he
wants.

~~~
samdoidge
Hillary donations from corporations dwarf that of Trump. Trump does also not
have JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, etc as donors. [1]
[https://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.php?cid=N000...](https://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.php?cid=N00000019&cycle=Career)

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Trump funds himself, so that comparison is disengenuous

~~~
samdoidge
My comment was primarily in response to: _Trump is, as far as I 'm aware, just
as bought and paid for._

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Fair. But being one of those we fear are doing the buying and selling, I'm not
so sure its any consolation.

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SixSigma
Pardon Chelsea Manning !

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jmkni
I would put money on Assange putting some sort of road-block in the way to
prevent this from happening.

He has done it before.

He wants to present himself as being a co-operative victim whilst
simultaneously being as un co-operative as possible!

