
Emmanuel Macron presidency prompts French startup boom - erwan
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/emmanuel-macron-president-french-startup-boom-france-investment-bank-bpifrance-a7790981.html
======
vmarsy
I can see those cuts in corporate tax being good to increase startup
competition. Some of the other big remaining issues to see highly successful
startups are salaries and lack of tech talent.

We could argue that startup salaries aren't the highest anyways, so if salary
isn't too big of an issue if French startup can provide equity easily. It
seems that when you exercise stock options in France, you don't need to pay
tax on it until the options are actually sold[1][2], so that's a good thing
for employee, no need to scratch your head with 83b elections and whatnot.

Regarding the lack of tech talent, there's still a lot to be done. France has
incredible engineers, but those engineering schools are not focused enough on
Computer Science, instead they excel in "old-school" engineering like
Aerospace, Civil, Nuclear, ... . On the other hand, Free universities have
Computer Science degrees, but they don't prepare the future graduates as much
as the Engineering "Grandes Écoles" would in regard to core engineering
knowledge. There are some attempts at schools focused more on Software
Engineering, but I feel that they're more similar to longer bootcamps with a
focus on projects, I think those who graduate such schools are trained to be
good "monkey coders" (pardon the expression) but lack a growth-mindset.

[1] (in French)
[https://www.impots.gouv.fr/portail/particulier/questions/jai...](https://www.impots.gouv.fr/portail/particulier/questions/jai-
des-stock-options-comment-est-impose-le-gain-levee-doptions)

[2] (in French)
[https://www.impots.gouv.fr/portail/particulier/lactionnariat...](https://www.impots.gouv.fr/portail/particulier/lactionnariat-
salarie)

~~~
allan_s
I agree with you on most parts.

However I come from a private "engineering" school focused on computer
sciences (named Supinfo) and there's some others (Epitech / Epita ) that
though they don't deliver a engineer diploma (as per the law-regulated
definition of engineer) but rather a master diploma (but that you can name
"engineer in computer science" or somekind of trick like that and the schools
play on that to attract student), actually have to my opinion, provide a
decent education.

I learned assembly, C, logical gates and how to build a 1 bits processor.

I then learned HTML, and SQL, and then PHP, and some basic of algorithm
(though no data structure courses, I learned only years after being graduated
what was a quick-sort/merge-sort)

But I also learned management (how to hold a meeting, how to manage conflict)
and project management (Gantt-diagram, Agile and Scrum) and some basis of ITIL

And even more related to the entrepreneur-ship world I had lessons about
copyrights law, labor laws, patent laws , as well as finance course (what is
an asset active/passive, what is the difference between giving yourself a
salary and giving you shares etc.)

However I have to admit 10 years ago, I wanted to be a monkey-coder and
thought the management and finance lessons were bullshit for people who were
not good enough to code and still needed a job.

So I have to say the school totally prepared me for the "startup world" (and
with 30 campuses in France and ~5000 graduated student a year, quite some
others were prepared, though they were maybe with the same mindset as me).

~~~
bsaul
Imho , schools like those don't do enough "hard" science, like math, to
prepare you for the future.

Have you done enough linear algebra to work on image processing, or with
neural networks , and understand the various parameters to tweak the libraries
?

Done enough logic (the math branch) to understand the deep nature , or at
least feel the taste of the type systems to come ( scala, haskell and now more
and more swift kotlin and rust), or use formal program proofs toolings ?

Enough statistics, physics and algebra to get a hint of what's under the hood
of Quantum computers, should they come one day ?

~~~
kakwa_
There are CS Engineering schools in France that have a large part of their
teaching in "hard" science.

For example, in my school (ENSIIE). I've studied Operational Research, Graph
Theory, Logic, Probability, Statistic, Formal Program Proof, and other
subjects I don't remember (oups...).

No Quantum Computing in my school however.

But it might be present in better schools like ENSIMAG or Supelec.

The side effect is that these schools tend to be old school in their purely
technical teachings. No learning of <fancy JS framework released a weak ago>
or how to configure <enterprise stuff> or <fancy cloud provider>, only basic
programming skills in C, Java or CPP, SQL, a little assembly, OCaml and some
Unix administration skills. By themselves, these schools will not produce code
monkeys.

------
GuiA
A law passed in 2015 in France [0] that makes it mandatory, starting 1/1/2018,
for any business (including "auto entrepreneur", what you have to register as
to be a freelancer or such in France) to used "certified" software for
accounting.

Is a tool like Excel, which the vast majority of small companies are currently
using, certified? Of course not! You have to pay for special software like
Ciel Devis (9 euros/month) or Ciel Compta (9 euros/month). The keen observer
will notice that they're produced by the same company, whose former CEO had a
stint at Intuit - another software company that is very good at manipulating
legislation to push its own interests.

If you get audited and are not in conformity, you get a 7500 euro fine and 60
days to correct your situation.

But what if you are serving foreign clients, and use foreign software to
produce invoices that fulfill local regulation? Or if you developed in house
software to meet your very particular needs? Heh, sucks to be you, go give
money to Ciel.

That being said, the law says that if you do your accounting without software,
you don't fall under the regulation. So can you just do your accounting in
Excel, copy it by hand, and show that when you get inspected? Who knows.

There are many, many cases like this of useless bureaucracy and regulation in
France that make it a nightmare for anyone to start and run their own
business. My friends who have been "auto entrepreneur" in the past have hated
every minute of it, and most of them have moved to other countries. I'm
French, likely to start a company in the next 5 years, and would never go back
to France to do it.

The government doesn't really want to create an environment where small
businesses can flourish - no one has the proper background to really get what
factors contribute to that. What they want is to get the big bucks from
venture capital flowing into the country so that they can boast about having a
French Google or Airbnb or whatever, which is purely a vanity metric and not
particularly constructive for the economy.

[0]: [http://www.codial.fr/wp-content/uploads/BOI-TVA-
DECLA-30-10-...](http://www.codial.fr/wp-content/uploads/BOI-TVA-
DECLA-30-10-30-20160803.pdf)

~~~
aweb
FYI they are planning to remove this requirement, so it should not be a bother
much longer

~~~
thibaut_barrere
I came here to say that.

Source: [http://bfmbusiness.bfmtv.com/france/bercy-renonce-au-
logicie...](http://bfmbusiness.bfmtv.com/france/bercy-renonce-au-logiciel-
obligatoire-pour-tous-les-auto-entrepreneurs-1187105.html)

------
atonse
Paradoxically, while Trump has accomplished very little but make speeches, the
damage his presidency has done to our image, and perception of how welcoming
America is, will be felt for years.

It's bringing back memories of our dismal global perception around 2006-2008.
(Although this wasn't for "America is unwelcoming" reasons)

~~~
threeseed
It's going to be devastating over the long term.

Those of us even in Australia are wary now of travelling to the US because of
(a) fear they maybe mistakenly detained, (b) having to turn over social media
information and (c) visa problems at the arrival gate.

Places like Berlin, Amsterdam etc are looking far more interesting for
startups because of the access to the European market and the sensible
policies that seem to be enacted e.g. roaming.

~~~
nxtrafalgar
Exactly. Countries definitely lose out because of these policies.

I intended to visit China in the near future -- but I've booked a trip to
Taiwan instead, almost entirely because Taiwan doesn't​ require me to get a
visa.

Likewise, I can't see myself ever living in the US as long as I have access to
free movement in Europe.

~~~
bogomipz
>"I intended to visit China in the near future -- but I've booked a trip to
Taiwan instead, almost entirely because Taiwan doesn't​ require me to get a
visa."

You still get a visa to enter Taiwan. It's just a "visa on arrival" as opposed
to needing to obtain a visa prior to travel. Visa policies are reciprocal
between countries. China and the US both charge citizens from each other's
countries to visit for tourist purposes and that must be paid prior to travel.
Tourist visa policies and immigrations polices have very little if anything to
do with each other.

I think you might be short changing yourself if your only reason for not
visiting mainland China is solely because they require a visa. It's less than
a hundred bucks, it's basically a tourist tax. You likely won't regret it.

~~~
nxtrafalgar
>You still get a visa to enter Taiwan. It's just a "visa on arrival" as
opposed to needing to obtain a visa prior to travel.

Sure -- 'doesn't require me to get a visa' as in I don't have to make a trip
to an embassy or pay a fee.

I'm sure I'll visit China eventually, but for the sort of low-budget
travelling I'm doing, an entry visa represents a not-insignificant amount of
the total cost. It also makes things less flexible: as I understand,
authorities must be notified of exact travel plans before you depart.

~~~
bogomipz
>" It also makes things less flexible: as I understand, authorities must be
notified of exact travel plans before you depart."

This isn't true. You are free to travel wherever and whenever you want in
China provided you have a visa. Tibet might require a special approval but
nowhere else. The visa is also good for 10 years. Also if you are a Westerner,
hotels and taxis are a really good value in China. Lastly there are much
better flight options into Beijing than there are into Taipei and so would
more than offset the cost of the visa.

------
graniter
As an American living and working in France, this sounds like a scenario where
France would love to have the results and benefits of a startup boom, but they
don't want to take the necessary steps to enable it. Having a bunch of free
money or easy visas are actually not what will cause a boom. France is
notorious for never-ending paperwork and administration, and it's true. It's
like trying to swim in molasses. You can do it. No one is "stopping" you. But
eventually you just get too tired and give up, and go to the cafe and enjoy
life. But hey, yeah let's make France attractive to startups and catch some of
those taxes and world attention. But we don't want to change anything about
our culture or regulations, so we can give give out a bunch of money, right?
That will get people to flock here, make billion euro companies, and we'll
reap the benefits. That's what it seems like to me.

~~~
pawadu
> France is notorious for never-ending paperwork and administration

Having visited the Paris startup scene recently, I got the feeling that the
bureaucracy is much less taxing these days.

~~~
sametmax
No it's the same except we embraced IT and it helped a lot.

------
relyio
The endowment of that venture fund (Viva Technology) will be around 10 billion
euros. It has just been announced so the news hasn't come out in English media
yet.

Here is a reputable source in French: [https://www.lesechos.fr/tech-
medias/hightech/030386245787-en...](https://www.lesechos.fr/tech-
medias/hightech/030386245787-en-direct-viva-technology-2017-cest-
parti-2094678.php)

------
camus2
French governments like to create all these grants and loopholes, but it
doesn't mask the complexity and the hostility of french bureaucracy toward
entrepreneurs. Don't be fooled by these PR stunts. If Macron really wants to
change things he needs to start telling the tax office to stop treating every
business owner as a de-facto fraudster and criminal.

~~~
relyio
It's the same everywhere. Do you think the IRS is any better than the FISC?
Tax administrations are out to get you, regardless of your country.

~~~
ttoinou
Both of you are right, it's about all western governments.

Still, we have in france a strong anti market thinking that is well reflected
in how our government keeps piling laws and regulations. This news is indeed a
PR stunt nothing more

------
aweb
As a French, I hope this will also bring large "big5-like" compagnies to open
engineering offices in my country as well. I'm always a bit disappointed to
see them have offices in London or Dublin but not here where we have a lot of
engineering talent as well.

