
Japanese Suicide Apartments - jimsojim
http://www.tofugu.com/2012/11/12/japanese-suicide-apartments/
======
sdrothrock
This is a dodgy article.

I've lived in Japan for almost a decade and heard about these "cheap suicide
apartments" exclusively from foreigners or Japanese people who "learned" about
it from foreigners; whenever I looked around for Japanese sites for this kind
of thing, the "discounted rent" would be the same or around $5 to $40 cheaper
per month, well within the normal variation for apartments in the same
building (due to facilities, size, shape, location, time since renovation,
etc.).

Additionally, the "cited" articles talk about the extortionate practices of
individual landlords who seem to be taking advantage of the families' grief to
send them through the wringer for more money, rather than "cheap suicide
apartments."

The real story here is the minority of shady landlords who indulge in those
practices -- no doubt they would also be the ones who keep your deposit and
additionally try to charge thousands of dollars for "cleaning" fees after you
move out. This kind of scum exists in every country.

------
arielweisberg
I follow how there can be liability, but unless the families are co-signing
how can they be liable?

Can families that fight back recoup legal costs potentially getting a
judgement against some or all of the landlord's property?

The post raises more questions than answers. Seems like a "proper" legal
system should deal with this soon enough without any extra legislation.
Granted it's Japan.

~~~
patio11
_I follow how there can be liability, but unless the families are co-signing
how can they be liable?_

It is highly likely that the parents were "guarantors" (保証人) for their
children, which is standard practice here. This is similar to the US concept
of co-signing. Also, socially speaking, "my adult child caused trouble for you
implies I have a responsibility to you" is something that more than 90% of
Japanese people would strongly agree to.

~~~
rmason
Curious, can you specifically search for suicide apartments? If I could save
30-40% with the high cost of living in Japan that is where I would want to
live.

~~~
krapp
There is a related post at the bottom of the linked article about exactly
that.

------
detaro
Can anyone elaborate if these are the hot tip for people that don't care about
this stuff (expats?) to get a cheap place, or not so much in reality? Seems
like an obvious thing, so I bet it isn't ;)

~~~
benmanns
Maybe even become ordained so you can exchange free rent for a cleansing.

~~~
adrtessier
Is it even possible for an expat to become a Shinto priest?

~~~
mahranch
Yes. A 27 year old Austrian man became a Shinto priest in Japan.

Source: [http://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2014/06/10/our-
lives/b...](http://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2014/06/10/our-lives/blue-
eyed-austrian-finds-calling-shrine/#.VmyuNr_Xu88)

------
baldajan
It feels like the loses from a suicide apartment should be covered by
insurance, rather than estates or families of the deceased. I'm not saying
this insurance does or doesn't exist (I don't know); but this is the "ideal"
case for it.

This way, families can grieve in peace and the landlords can't bully their way
to get "repairs" done.

~~~
roel_v
Then you need to have insurance, of course. A life insurance could be used to
pay off such costs, which I'm sure happens in many cases. It's the uninsured
cases that make the news.

------
cli
>So tell me, would you live in one of these suicide apartments?

I would probably seek them out, as they seem to be much cheaper.

~~~
avar
This question paraphrased in the context of the article is basically asking
whether or not you believe in ghosts.

Not only would you have to believe in ghosts, but some of these apartments are
in cities that were firebombed by the US in living memory, you'd have to
believe in ghosts that couldn't move around and were local to specific
apartments to care about this more than "were there firebombings in this
area?" or "was this house constructed before WWII?".

~~~
patio11
It's more a purity thing than "do you believe in ghosts." Many cultures,
including yours, have beliefs with regards to purity which are not wholly
explained by physics. For example, animal fat can be used to make soap. Humans
are animals. You would probably feel very unhappy if someone informed you
that, unbeknownst to you, your soap had been replaced with soap made out of
people. It is not a property of chemistry that your soap remembers being a
human, any more than your drinking water remembers being urine last week, but
you're very concerned about ex-human soap and not at all concerned about ex-
urine drinking water.

~~~
ck2
It's not amazing people believe in ghosts so much that they believe gravity
somehow affects ghosts which blows my mind.

Because the earth is no longer remotely close to where the person died, not
around the sun, not in the solar system, and given the universe is constantly
expanding, millions of miles from where they died.

So somehow ghosts are both non-corporeal yet affected by gravity.

~~~
PhasmaFelis
Every incorporeal thing we know of (photons, neutrinos) is affected by
gravity. If you have chosen to believe in incorporeal ghosts, it's not at all
strange to assume they would be affected by gravity. It's kind of weird to
assume that they _wouldn 't,_ actually.

~~~
ck2
Okay let's put it this way, photons are barely affected by gravity because of
their near zero mass.

So you think ghosts have mass? Or rather near zero mass?

Because it takes massive amounts of gravity to affect photons, you won't see
the gravity of earth keeping photons in place like say a person.

------
morgante
I partially wish that the US had the same stigma so I could exploit it. I'd
happily live in an apartment where someone committed suicide, since there's
absolutely no logical basis for fearing it.

~~~
derefr
On the other hand, an apartment where someone killed someone else, or suffered
a psychotic break and had to be institutionalized permanently, or died of
mysterious causes? Higher-than-average likelihood of mold, lead, mercury,
carbon monoxide, etc.

~~~
morgante
I'd probably do an extra review of environmental factors to be safe (as I
would with any below-market apartment), but it's unlikely that even the
majority of deaths are driven by persistent factors.

------
ck2
The older the place you live in, the more likely someone died there.

And given how old civilization is, I bet someone probably died within 1000
feet of where you live right now.

Certainly hundreds of animals have died around you for sure, many within your
lifetime.

In fact you probably ate a dead creature today.

WTF is with people and "ghosts" ?

~~~
fbbbbb
I would say that someone died within 1000 feet from where you live, while you
actually lived there. This is probably true, unless you live in a remote
house.

And they all forget to count ghosts from microorganisms and insects.

~~~
krapp
It may be that, in Shinto Buddhism (the predominant religion in Japan,) the
"ghosts" of microorganisms, insects, etc. don't exist, or aren't worth
worrying about, because they're part of the natural order.

Also bear in mind that, if one believes in reincarnation and animism, "ghosts"
on earth may be considered a special case, when the expectation is that most
spirits rejoin the karmic cycle (or whatever.)

------
WalterBright
I find this curious, since nobody seems to have a problem with hospitals where
lots of people die. If people haunt the place where they die, wouldn't a
hospital be crammed with them? Why don't ghost hunters look in hospitals?

~~~
zo1
I think it's because, unless the hospital gets deserted/abandoned, it's
generally always filled with plenty of _living_ people. A house, on the other
hand, would more-easily appear ominous because it's not as public.

------
gotchange
> "In one case, a young woman killed herself in her apartment and the landlord
> showed up during her funeral to demand ¥6 million (~$75,500) so that he
> could hire a priest to “cleanse” the property."

Any Japanese people here to comment on this specific point that there are
"exorcists" who dedicate their time and effort for this economic activity and
that's well established phenomenon there?

------
sakopov
This isn't the only article i read on this topic. It's shocking to me how
inconsiderate the Japanese are of suicide and grieving. Just goes to tell you
what happens to a society when a troubling issue is ignored - it becomes
mundane part of daily life and the majority ceases to care.

~~~
adrtessier
> It's shocking to me how inconsiderate the Japanese are of suicide and
> grieving.

Eh, I think it's a different perspective. Simplifying things greatly, Japanese
society is a collective one, and one could argue that suicide is a selfish
decision that damages the collective by removing any possible utility you may
be giving it for the sake of yourself. As even small transgressions of this
nature are frowned upon in Japanese culture, it's not surprising to me that
the bigger transgressions have these reactions.

------
rhaps0dy
>how much of a discount would you need to continue living there?

$0.

But that was an interesting read.

