

On a project headed for disaster.  When to leave? - user09723

I work for a small startup-ish company (LLC operating the US). They manage several projects and I have been working on one of them fairly autonomously for 6 months and finally have been put "fully in charge" of what I have slowly come to realize is fairly large and ugly project with lots and lots of problems.  I am the only programmer on this project.  It has so far been a very good learning experience.  I now am finally receiving a good pay rate and lots of compliments.  The project, however, is a huge liability and involves managing probably millions of dollars of customer assets. I can envision them getting sued at some point. I have never misrepresented myself, but they have been more than willing to give me a longer leash than I am comfortable with.<p>The project is clearly troubled and it is no secret, yet they take on as many new customers as they can. No investment is being made in long-term fixes. There is a clear partition between this project and the rest of the company.<p>I need the work, but feel I am being thrown under a bus.<p>My questions:  Am I under any personal liability? If I am, what can I do to protect myself? I am tempted to ride this as long as I can and give it my very best effort. Does anyone have any experience with conducting a train as it derails? Did it hurt you in ways you did not anticipate? Has anyone felt this way and been pleasantly surprised or wrong about the outcome?  Is failure ultimately a good learning experience?<p>Extra info:<p>I have no financial ownership.<p>I have always worked for large companies and have little experience with startups.<p>I do not work directly for the startup, but for them through an HR "outsourcer"
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gexla
I wonder how many businesses fit this description behind the scenes. I can
imagine some programmer working on the Sony Network thinking "wow, the
security for this thing is crap, we are going to get hacked any day." I wonder
how crazy a place like Paypal might have been in its early days. Those guys
probably had no clue what they were doing and probably made a lot of mistakes
which would make us cringe.

It seems like this company has actually done a lot of things right. They have
customers, they are growing and they have trust. You are learning and getting
good pay. Aren't we all just disasters waiting to happen? I would just stick
with it. If the ____hits the fan, grab some popcorn.

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noodle
> Am I under any personal liability?

i am not a lawyer, of course, but it doesn't sound like it based on your
description.

> Does anyone have any experience with conducting a train as it derails?

yes, i was in a somewhat similar situation. i found a new job because i did
not foresee the situation changing. it sounds to me like you're not actually
conducting this train. if you were, you'd be able to make the decisions to
make long-term fixes, hire more people as work increases, etc.. no, you're
more like the guy shoveling coal into the engine.

this is just a job. you have no ownership and you're not even directly
employed. if you feel like you're being exploited or thrown under a bus, you
should probably go have a serious talk with management and start looking for a
new job. maybe things will improve, but the best time to find a job is while
you still have one. based on your description, unless they're paying you a
fair wage for your responsibilities (or more than fair), i don't really see
many up-sides to it.

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ianpurton
All software projects carry a level of risk, the good news is that you seem to
be aware of those risks.

You could jump ship but you might be missing an oppurtunity to add more skills
to your skillset.

You need to get a list of all the risks that you believe exist in your project
and communicate that list to your manager/stakeholders. The list should
contain no emotional language (i.e. I am being thrown under a bus), just a
statement of the facts.

So you want something like

"Here's a list of the issues I think we need to fix to stabalize project X
going forward."

#1 - There are millions of dollars under control and only 1 developer. I think
we should add peer review to all changes I make.

#2 - Etc,etc.

#3 - Etc,etc.

Once you've got it all down, get a friend to review it. Then consider sending
it out to your managers.

Don't feel you have to implement every idea on the list, you are asking for
resources to help you "stabilize the system".

Hope this helps.

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bigohms
You are a contractor brought on to keep the wheels turning to see of there is
light at the end of the tunnel. If you wanto to have a come to Jesus moment
with the executive in charge, know what you are putting on the table (chips).
If you're ready, make your case in a way that will show the return on your
efforts for a deal. Make sure you have all the deal points laid oort. Start
the conversation with : "what do you want to do with X" and go from there.

Personal liability: not likely but document the impact of your work. Make sure
you write out a summary and send it to the executive. Send a copy to a
personal email.

Protection? Blittle.

Just make sure you state your case, explain your proposed solution and expect
a response of some kind. Be prepared to whack away.

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damoncali
That sounds like a typical startup. Are you sure it's as bad as you are
thinking? In other words, is this a mismatch of risk profiles or a truly bad
situation. Anxiety or legitimate concern/fear?

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brudgers
My thought was in a similar vein...does the OP actually have the experience to
accurately determine whether the project is doomed to failure or is just a
self perpetuating kludge series?

Usually, lots of stuff in a small business is totally fucked up, but that
doesn't mean it won't make money.

Honestly, even if it is going down the tubes, it is likely to be a hell of a
learning experience. Learning to deal with stupidity is a valuable corporate
skill.

With no equity, the time to leave is when something substantially more
interesting comes along or the checks start bouncing.

~~~
user09723
Excellent thoughts here. My background is in a field... well, probably the
single most risk-adverse field there is. Which is why OP is seeking a nominal
POV. There are certainly months to years of profitable wear left in the tires
and some chance of sustained success. But experience is not my basis for
judgement. It is clear that many before me have abandoned this post and there
are pretty strong indications that the company is trying to shed this
liability.

~~~
brudgers
Sure the company is trying to shed liability - or rather the Owners are.
That's why it is an LLC.

What I was getting at is that the fact that everything is kludged together in
a way that would be unlikely in the corporate world doesn't mean that the
product will be unsuccessful - it doesn't mean the job will suck either,
though it does make it more likely for certain personality types.

The benefit of staying is that you are likely to see the operations sausage
factory and that sort of experience will be harder to come by should you
return to enterprise type work.

I'm not saying that staying is the best option, but since there weren't
complaints about the workplace culture or pay, the items over which you have
expressed concern appear to be very remote possibilities, and there does not
appear to be any opportunity cost associated with your career; I don't see any
substantial harm should you continue to play Dirty Harry for now.

Good Luck.

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md1515
If you are getting good pay and you have no stock options then I would
recommend riding the ship down (although in this metaphor you seemingly have
multiple lives). If it is no secret, then there is nothing you can do, really.

I don't think you have any liability here, though you are playing in a grey
area without outright telling them (at least in an email) that you are worried
about the state of the program. If they ignore you, then it is on record for
the future.

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codeonfire
If you're not doing anything illegal and you're not a member of the LLC, I
wouldn't worry. Just start trying to line up your next job and don't agree to
any sort of executive title like CFO or VP. An employee can be an ex-employee
living in another state within a day. An owner has to file paperwork to be an
ex-owner.

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pasbesoin
1) Are these people deserving of my support?

2) Can I afford to give them my support? (Materially? Morally?)

3) Have I identified the problems to my management, so that the subsequent
responsibility for managing them (as per my job description such falls outside
my responsibility or ability to control) does not rest with me? (I am not
"negligent" for having "failed to communicate".)

4) Double-check: Am I breaking any laws or regulations?

