
Microsoft earnings blow past estimates in every category, beats Street - belltaco
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/26/microsoft-earnings-q2-2017.html
======
xt00
Yea the smart play Microsoft is making is to go to businesses and say "look
you could go with us or AWS.. AWS essentially says "good luck you're on your
own" and we will hold your hand and our premier support people will come to
your business and set it all up for you and show your like 2 IT guys how to
manage things.. They will make a ton of money on cloud because a huge amount
of businesses are basically lagging behind the rest of the industry with cloud
adoption and getting rid of their old servers and hosting services.

~~~
reggieband
I can't agree more.

I work in an enterprise place and we discuss this frequently. Even worse than
AWS is Google, they just don't get the fact that Technical Managers at big
enterprise places want hand-hold turn-key solutions. The amount of money they
leave on the table is mind-bending.

You go to Google and say "We need to do X" and they say "Here is product Y
that connects to product Z, but you need to write your own connector." And
each product has it's own pricing structure (one by CPU usage, one with flat
fees, one based on throughput) so working out total cost is a nightmare. Then
you have to hire around those techs, project manage the build of the
infrastructure, etc. At that point you start to ask "Why are we using them
again?"

I've heard "Amazon and Google don't understand enterprise" at least a dozen
times in the last couple of months. You don't hear that about Microsoft.
Coming from a startup/open source/indie background I thought AWS and Google
would be eating the world but at least in enterprise they appear to be missing
a big opportunity.

~~~
obulpathi
> "We need to do X" and they say "Here is product Y that connects to product
> Z, but you need to write your own connector." And each product has it's own
> pricing structure (one by CPU usage, one with flat fees, one based on
> throughput) so working out total cost is a nightmare. Then you have to hire
> around those techs, project manage the build of the infrastructure, etc. At
> that point you start to ask "Why are we using them again?"

This is a feature(?) of AWS. Google Cloud provides fully built solutions for
majority of use cases. AWS provides nuts and bolts and tell you to integrate
them.

~~~
reggieband
> Google Cloud provides fully built solutions for majority of use cases.

That is not my experience. In fact, you just need to look at the Google Cloud
documentation solution use cases. For example:
[https://cloud.google.com/solutions/mobile/mobile-gaming-
anal...](https://cloud.google.com/solutions/mobile/mobile-gaming-analysis-
telemetry) (chosen more or less at random).

You need:

* Cloud pub/sub * Cloud dataflow * Big Query * Cloud datalab

They don't stitch all that together for you. Nor do they have a good way of
calculating how much each of those services will cost when used in conjunction
with each other.

~~~
obulpathi
If you are looking for a solution for mobile analytics:
[https://firebase.google.com/docs/analytics/](https://firebase.google.com/docs/analytics/)

If you want a customizable solution, you connect the tools. Pub/Sub for
streaming, Dataflow for processing data, Big Query for Data Analytics
(Warehousing), Datalab is your development environment. Its hard for a single
solution to serve 100% of customer needs. That why they suggest tools. Care to
share what a better technology stack looks like? I would love to know if there
are better alternatives for services like Google App Engine, Google Cloud Load
Balancer, BigQuery, Pub/Sub, Dataflow, TensorFlow Cloud ML, Container Engine
(Kubernetes), Stack Driver, ...

Speaking about cost, its all flat rate, with usage discounts (the more you
use, the more discount you get) and there are no upfront payments /
reservations / locking / hourly billings (like AWS)

~~~
reggieband
> If you are looking for a solution for mobile analytics

I'm not at all, that example was pulled at random as an example.

> Its hard for a single solution to serve 100% of customer needs. That why
> they suggest tools.

It would be hard to describe just how custom of a solution my company would
need. My company certainly likes to do things in a unique way. However there
is a huge grey area between "here is a specific product that doesn't quite fit
your needs" and "here are the blocks you need to build a custom solution on
your own". That grey area is filled with money.

> I would love to know if there are better alternatives for services like ...

Don't underestimate the ability of large enterprise to roll their own. It
isn't like Google is the only company that can build a message queue or a load
balancer. Nor are they the only game in town selling them. This is a time to
remember: The customer is always right. You and I may think that "Google is
the best" but my manager wants what my manager wants. We may select a lesser
solution simply because the support is significantly better. And that support
should be vertically integrated. If we have support for pub sub, support for
big query but not support for the integration between them ... that is a
drawback.

> Speaking about cost, its all flat rate

Not really. For example data flow is based on the size of machine you are
running (plus some extra percentage for the service), pub sub is based on
number of events, big query is based on query time + egress, etc. I probably
still have the spreadsheet I used to try to get a handle on costs kicking
around somewhere. "Flat rate" does not describe the monstrosity that is that
spreadsheet.

I totally understand that some people don't understand the enterprise
mentality. I'm not trying to defend it - maybe just give a small view into it.
Now that I live in it, I may not agree with it, but I understand it. Google
doesn't.

~~~
obulpathi
> I'm not at all, that example was pulled at random as an example.

Then give me an example of what you are looking for and I will give you a
solution

> My company certainly likes to do things in a unique way.

And every company has a unique way of doing things. That is why they provided
all the tools you want and let you combine them to fit your custom needs.
Instead, if they were to provide turnkey solutions, you would not use them
because you have unique needs.

> It isn't like Google is the only company that can build a message queue or a
> load balancer. Nor are they the only game in town selling them.

If there are any better solutions, please let me know. Support is first class
on Google Cloud. That is one of the reasons why Spotify choose Google Cloud
over AWS.

> "Flat rate" does not describe the monstrosity that is that spreadsheet.

Google Cloud pricing structure is far easier to work with, as you don't need
reservations/upfront payments and at the same time leaves room for scaling up
and down elastically. The amount you pay is simply based on usage. For Pub/Sub
its the number of messages, for BigQuery its the amount of data that is
queried. I would love to see a simpler pricing structure. Would you care to
share the details if you know of any?

~~~
clebio
A simpler pricing structure would be an Enterprise flat rate. Charge five to
ten times what any possible scaling might cause. There are corporations that
will pay. That's the point about "mind-bending".

~~~
eip
AWS and Google already charge five to ten times as much as dedicated hosting
for cpu, storage, and bandwidth.

------
ChuckMcM
Nicely done Microsoft. Also interesting note in the earnings release[1] is
this, _" Search advertising revenue excluding traffic acquisition costs
increased 10% (up 11% in constant currency) driven by increased revenue per
search and search volume."_ A collection of businesses that make up most of
the revenue and search-advertising with strong growth year over year. What's
not to like?

[1] [https://www.microsoft.com/en-
us/Investor/earnings/FY-2017-Q2...](https://www.microsoft.com/en-
us/Investor/earnings/FY-2017-Q2/press-release-webcast)

------
baldfat
Seems like what was good for developers and hackers is good for their bottom
line. So glad this "new" Microsoft is working for them as well as for us.

~~~
shmerl
New is better, but not quite there yet. They supported AOM codecs initiative,
but didn't support Vulkan.

~~~
rubber_duck
>but didn't support Vulkan

Do they really need to ?

~~~
shmerl
Depends on how you define need. If you want to have a common open standard -
absolutely. Same as with HTML instead of some ActiveX abomination. But if you
want to have balkanized lock-in mess, then it's a different story.

As long as MS has the notion of lock-in going on, I don't buy this whole
"reformed" MS story.

~~~
rubber_duck
I don't get what you're trying to say. Vulkan needs nothing from MS it's
purely a driver thing, as for MS using DX over it I guess Vulkan is far too
new and DX is proven and something you control (I wouldn't bet my core
platform tech on something done by a committee either, maybe once it's a
defacto standard), meanwhile GL is garbage compared to it, talk a aout
Balkanization, good luck writing dx11 level features that work across two GL
drivers.

~~~
cwyers
shmerl mentions Vulkan on every thread he possibly can, it feels like. It's
his hobbyhorse. I think an Xbox owes him money or something.

~~~
pjmlp
Without having any understanding what people on the games industry actually
care about.

~~~
shmerl
And you apparently represent those who profit from lock-in. Is that why you
justify it all the time? Because no one would objectively do it. I never saw
an engineer who said "lock-in is good, more lock-in please!". Those who do it,
are backwards thinking managers like the one from this quote:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Microsoft#Vendor_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Microsoft#Vendor_lock-
in)

~~~
pjmlp
No, I represente those that have real life experience in the industry, and
don't care one little second about lock-in, because the industry learned to
profit from it since the early 80's.

\- game studios specializing in ports among hardware platforms

\- consultants doing optimization work in specific APIs

\- hardware platforms that offer an unique experience in terms of gameplay,
due to their CPU and GPU architectures, that no portable 3D ever exposed, not
even Vulkan (hence NVN on Switch)

\- middleware engines that allow for portability, while providing access to
all hardware features, with better debugging tools that so called portable
APIs ever had

Your problema is that no one in the industry, the people that actually pay for
tickets to attend GDC and similar conferences not weekend indie devs, don't
see lock-in as a burden, rather as a way to make the game exclusive and sell
their IP.

Which incidently is something I bet you also don't agree with, the way IP is
managed throughtout the industry.

Once upon a time I did think like that, during my FOSS/GNU/Linux phase, then I
had the opportunity to have a glimpse how the industry works from the inside,
not how people think they should.

Are you aware that even Intel is not putting that much effort on their Vulkan
drivers for Windows?

~~~
shmerl
_> No, I represente those that have real life experience in the industry, and
don't care one little second about lock-in_

An oxymoron. Those who care about the industry understand perfectly well, how
lock-in is a problem for it. It's like saying that MS cared about the Web so
much, that they pushed ActiveX, to benefit it.

Dan Baker (from Oxide) wrote[1] about problems of lock-in and need for
portability in computer graphics. And don't try claiming he doesn't know about
the industry, he is one of the creators of DirectX itself.

Oxide put their words in action, and were involved in Mantle creation, and
naturally participate in the Vulkan working group.

 _> don't see lock-in as a burden, rather as a way to make the game exclusive
and sell their IP. Which incidently is something I bet you also don't agree
wit_

Yes, I see exclusivity as a stinking practice. Why would creator want to
exclude some users on purpose? Normal creator tries the opposite, to reach as
many users as possible. Only backwards thinking legacy publishers don't do
that. But they aren't equal to creators.

Also, normal creators don't call their art "IP". Just a hint for you, whom you
really represent.

1\. [http://www.oxidegames.com/2014/05/21/next-generation-
graphic...](http://www.oxidegames.com/2014/05/21/next-generation-graphics-
apis/)

~~~
pjmlp
> Dan Baker (from Oxide) wrote[1] about problems of lock-in and need for
> portability in computer graphics. And don't try claiming he doesn't know
> about the industry, he is one of the creators of DirectX itself.

You mean the same one that a year later wrote about how cool it is that Oxide
supports DX 12?

[http://www.oxidegames.com/2015/08/16/the-birth-of-a-new-
api/](http://www.oxidegames.com/2015/08/16/the-birth-of-a-new-api/)

As I said, you don't get how the industry works.

~~~
shmerl
_> You mean the same one that a year later wrote about how cool it is that
Oxide supports DX 12?_

The main point that you conveniently ignored in the link above was this:

    
    
        > Oxide has a strong interest in supporting platforms
        > beyond Windows. Our hope is that Mantle will be a call
        > to arms to bring an industrial-strength API to such
        > platforms as SteamOS, Linux, Android and MacOS. The 
        > biggest problem for us moving to other platforms is the
        > relative weakness of the graphics software on the 
        > platforms. Added to this is that we yet have no word on 
        > whether we can have D3D12 on Windows 7. From a business 
        > standpoint, it makes little sense to rely exclusively on 
        > Microsoft doing the right thing.
    

You of course would pretend he didn't mean that. But he did, and he spoke
about Vulkan quite a number of times.

Vulkan came out when exactly? Yes, February 2016. So he couldn't have spoken
about implementation of WIP API in their own engine until then. But he spoke
about Vulkan design itself around that time, like "Going Wide: Vulkan and Many
Threads". See
[https://www.khronos.org/assets/uploads/developers/library/20...](https://www.khronos.org/assets/uploads/developers/library/2015-gdc/Valve-
Vulkan-Session-GDC_Mar15.pdf)

See others in that presentation talking about the need for common standard.
And again, don't try to claim they aren't representing the industry - all
those people undeniably are representing it.

 _> As I said, you don't get how the industry works._

The "industry" you have in your mind doesn't represent creators, but backwards
thinking legacy players like MS who profit from lock-in. They aren't moving
the industry forward. You made it clear whom you support.

------
perseusprime11
Microsoft's board made the best call in selecting Satya Nadella. Bringing an
outsider was the sexy thing to do but I think today's earnings show the
wiseness in picking the right person for the job.

------
holydude
I am glad as well. It is funny how ms reinvented itself and how apple became
new "old ms"

~~~
giarc
From a high level it is looking that way. Response to recent MS products has
been good (surface and surface studio). Apple can't get away from negative
press (the headphone jack, lack of innovative features, lack of ports on
macbook, touchbar etc).

I am hoping that Apple really knocks it out of the park with the iPhone 8
given the 10 year anniversary an dall.

~~~
nikanj
Looking at recent trends, I think the innovation on iPhone 8 is going to be

1) Slimmer than ever (remember to bring your battery pack) 2) No-bezel screen
(remember to bring your bumper case) 3) Force touch on the home button too

~~~
giarc
I know this is said a lot, but who are the users asking for cheaper phones?
Here on HN, where presumably most people are technologically inclined, the
sentiment is "I'll take a bigger phone for large battery life." But all phone
manufacturers are going the opposite. Are regular users asking for smaller
phones? There must be a user group that wants it smaller and smaller (actually
just thinner).

~~~
strictnein
And (practically) everyone puts their iphone in a case, frequently an Otter
box or something, so the thin phone never seems thin.

~~~
massysett
I had the original Motorola Droid and the Droid Bionic, both with no case, and
the iPhone 6 Plus with a case is certainly thinner than either of those phones
with no case. Since I put it in my pocket, I certainly don't want it to be any
thicker. Yeah the Droid fit in my pocket too but I would not go back to a
phone of that thickness even if the battery lasted for days.

------
tabeth
I hope Microsoft uses some of that profit and fixes Azure Blobs. I was hoping
to use them instead of S3 for static site hosting (ended up going with Gitlab)
and it doesn't support even the most basic of functionality. [1]

[1]
[https://feedback.azure.com/forums/217298-storage/suggestions...](https://feedback.azure.com/forums/217298-storage/suggestions/6417741-static-
website-hosting-in-azure-blob-storage)

~~~
jlian
This might not meet your needs but you can use Azure App Service (free) to
host a static website

[https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/acoat/2016/01/28/publish-a-...](https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/acoat/2016/01/28/publish-
a-static-web-site-using-azure-web-apps/)

EDIT: also [http://stackoverflow.com/questions/31653643/how-to-
deploy-a-...](http://stackoverflow.com/questions/31653643/how-to-deploy-a-
simple-static-micro-site-on-microsoft-azure)

------
smnc
> The Street also expects Microsoft to formally announce 700 job cuts as part
> of its previously announced plan to cut 2,850 jobs by June 2017.

Interesting, the linked article calls it an "effort to update skills across
the company."

~~~
nikanj
Out with the old, in with the new. Why pay a senior $250k, when you can pay a
junior $100k, and get more hours out of them too?

~~~
devonkim
In a certain respect I can also see that meaning "we don't sell WebTV anymore,
I think we can lose people that were maintaining that crap." I mean heck, they
shut it down only in late 2013 years and years after it left consumer
consciousness, who knows how many random enterprises were trying to keep
paying Microsoft to maintain the business equivalents of Microsoft Bob, right?

------
ScottBurson
Wow, this post is 10 hours old and I'm the first to point out how bad Satya
Nadella is making Steve Ballmer look.

Maybe it really is a new Microsoft.

------
wehadfun
Looks Azure is working well.

~~~
cobookman
Azure no, O365 yes. They are doing some funky accounting.

------
agustamir
Does drive home the point that making consumer products is really hard? I mean
their Surface, phone business seems down but B2B(Azure) is thriving[0].
Comparing that to Apple's business wouldn't be all that fair?

[0][http://venturebeat.com/2017/01/26/microsoft-
reports-26-1-bil...](http://venturebeat.com/2017/01/26/microsoft-
reports-26-1-billion-in-q2-2017-revenue-azure-up-93-but-phone-down-81-and-
surface-down-2/)

~~~
pjmlp
From the look of what is on display in consumer stores across a few European
countries I visit regularly, I am betting they will wipe out the lower segment
of hybrid tablets and netbooks.

Nowadays the majority of those devices on display are running Windows 10, not
Android or OEM variant of GNU/Linux.

~~~
digi_owl
Maybe. But after having used a Win10 tablet for a while i find that the whole
"app" side of things feels bolted on.

If you want to do some serious file manipulations you invariably has to drop
back to the age old file explorer and the related Win32 file picker window.
And those are anything but fun to operate via a touch screen.

------
bcaulfield
Makes me wonder what a "hacker" portfolio might look like -- companies
building product and services people who build things use for a living.

~~~
forgetsusername
> _Makes me wonder what a "hacker" portfolio might look like_

Lots of concentration and no voting rights.

