

A Brief History of the Modern World (Or, How the West Fucked Everything Up) - lostboyevsky
http://www.refinethemind.com/history-modern-world/

======
ElectronCharge
This essay almost accidentally touches on the actual truth:

"Another moral of this story is that a healthy amount of cynicism about human
nature is probably an indispensable defense mechanism in this world—because
people suck, and they will disappoint you, I’m sorry."

Human nature has evolved very little from the earliest days. In fact, one
factor that's done more to mitigate the evils of human nature than almost
anything else is Christianity, which is roundly vilified in this essay. Like
anything else related to humans, Christianity has been affected by basic human
nature, but "love your brother as yourself" is hard to attack really.

The bottom line is that Western civilization was first to break through to
some transformative technologies: deep water sailing ships, good navigation,
accurate timekeeping, and effective, mass produced, metal weapons. Given human
nature, a culture with such advantages was sure to dominate. As the article
tangentially points out, every culture has committed horrendous atrocities.
Was the spread of Western culture really to blame for the brutal atrocities
committed by the xenophobic Japanese during World War II? Attila the Hun? No,
it was simply mostly unrestrained human nature.

Capitalism is also as effective as it is due to the fact that it dovetails
nicely with human nature. It has lead to amazing advances, and a very high
standard of living for even the poorest in the West - and soon throughout the
rest of the world. It is to be applauded, not condemned.

~~~
lostboyevsky
hey man, author of the post here. thank you for the rich and astute comment.

i'm not sure why you think i "accidentally" touched on the truth---the dark
side of human nature, etc. i had that in mind throughout the essay, but i
guess i feel that understanding the human tendency toward selfish/violent
behavior is not reason to think that we can't get better, in our personal
lives and on the level of structuring society, at _not fueling_ the darker
aspects of ourselves.

maybe i was a little hard on christianity, but i don't really think so. i
think you are vastly overestimating the extent to which "love your brother as
yourself" has been the most influential element of christianity. i look at the
history of christianity and see a history of using organized religion as an
exclusive club to claim superiority over other people, demonize them, oppress
them, murder them, etc. any ideology that claims to have a premium on the
truth eventually produces people who are willing to _do anything_ to protect
their "truth." a non-religion, non-ideology, with zero written rules and only
one basic idea (not a commandment)---that suffering sucks for you and everyone
else so you should probably try not to cause it--would have served the human
race a whole lot better, IMO, though unfortunately people tend to buy into
elaborate fables and rule systems.

i think in your paragraph that starts "The bottom line is . . ." you express
the essence of the "manifest destiny" attitude that led the West to dominate
the rest of the world--- _of course_ that would happen, they had the
technology, etc. i can see that argument. but i think that in that same vein
it would be very easy to theorize that _of course_ we're going to end up using
our nuclear weapons because we're inevitably violent or _of course_ we can't
stop the destruction of the earth because we're inevitably greedy. i guess i
don't see a point in living if there is no hope that we can improve, as a
collective, at perceiving the traps of human nature that have nearly destroyed
the world and choosing collectively to cooperate and overcome them. perhaps
i'm a fool, but i feel we don't have to destroy ourselves.

capitalism: yes, amazing advances, high standard of living, etc., but you're
overlooking the fact that it has also produced weapons that would allow us to
vaporize the planet, slowly decimated the biosphere, and made the gap between
rich and poor more egregious than ever. arguably those latter three things are
pretty big problems with unbounded capitalism. i think, as MLK suggested in
that quote in my essay, that there is a "higher synthesis" of the ideas of
capitalism and communism that will allow us to derive many of the same
benefits of capitalism that you're lauding but also produce a more equal and
sustainable society. i don't claim to know how that would work, but i do feel
that some fundamental changes are necessary. thanks again for the insightful
comment. peace.

~~~
ElectronCharge
"maybe i was a little hard on christianity, but i don't really think so. i
think you are vastly overestimating the extent to which "love your brother as
yourself" has been the most influential element of christianity. i look at the
history of christianity and see a history of using organized religion as an
exclusive club to claim superiority over other people, demonize them, oppress
them, murder them, etc. any ideology that claims to have a premium on the
truth eventually produces people who are willing to do anything to protect
their "truth." a non-religion, non-ideology, with zero written rules and only
one basic idea (not a commandment)---that suffering sucks for you and everyone
else so you should probably try not to cause it--would have served the human
race a whole lot better, IMO, though unfortunately people tend to buy into
elaborate fables and rule systems."

Actually I generally agree with this. However, the reality of life is, per
Hobbes, "the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short.". That is
what religion, probably more than any other force, has mitigated. Religion is
diametrically opposed to "human nature", no?

"i guess i don't see a point in living if there is no hope that we can
improve, as a collective, at perceiving the traps of human nature that have
nearly destroyed the world and choosing collectively to cooperate and overcome
them. perhaps i'm a fool, but i feel we don't have to destroy ourselves."

I don't recall advocating self-destruction. If there is a nuclear war, I
expect we'll win. ;-)

"capitalism: yes, amazing advances, high standard of living, etc., but you're
overlooking the fact that it has also produced weapons that would allow us to
vaporize the planet, slowly decimated the biosphere, and made the gap between
rich and poor more egregious than ever. arguably those latter three things are
pretty big problems with unbounded capitalism."

The arms race is entirely unavoidable. One hopes it will continue as it has
lately, with unprecedented peace around the globe. Atomic weapons should be
worshiped as the greatest force for peace in history. :-)

As to the "gap" you're referring to, I think that's illusory. The "poor" today
have wealth beyond most rulers of yesteryear. (I'm referring to the "poor" in
the US.)

As to the "biosphere" the jury is still out. How do you think things will go
if there's another Ice Age in just a few hundred/thousand years?

Finally, I'd like to thank you for the civil discourse, and an interesting
conversation. :-)

