
Tea (1999) - mutor
http://h2g2.com/approved_entry/A61345
======
subnaught
This is absolutely incorrect. The best thing you can do to enhance your tea-
drinking experience is to buy good tea, and good tea is invariably brewed
_off_ the boil, usually somewhere between 170-200F, depending on the tea.[0]
Higher temperatures will extract too much tannin at the expense of aromatics.
The British generally drink shit tea and then add milk to it, which is why
they can get away with brewing it at 212F.

Remember that the British experience with tea dates back only to the 17th
century, whereas the Chinese and Japanese have had much longer to refine the
growing, processing, and drinking of tea.

[0]: [http://www.itoen.com/preparing-tea](http://www.itoen.com/preparing-tea)

~~~
jarvist
The guide explicitly says to use Earl Grey, which is a bergamot oil infused
Assam. Both of these loose-leafed teas, as well as typical British loose-leaf
blends such as English Breakfast, are brewed at 100 C, and taste awful (bitter
and slightly mealy in the mouth) when brewed at a lower temperature.

A cheap blended tea such as you'd find in a tea bag of PG Tips are much better
at brewing (in seconds!) from non-boiling water.

~~~
peterwwillis
Ahmad English No. 1 loose leaf, when brewed at 208-210 F, steeped for about 5
minutes, tastes lovely with nothing added. It's not astringent or bitter and
has a clean full taste, with a hint of bergamot. For a blend I think it's
lovely, and it's my go-to everyday black tea.

Also, the OP was incorrect; there are no tannins in tea. Bitter & astringent
flavors in tea are caused by a different group of polyphenols (primarily
catechins in green teas and theaflavins/thearubigens in black). Polyphenols
bind with salivary proteins that reduce salivary lubrication. Since both
temperature and steep time determine what gets extracted from the tea and how
much, it's important to get both right to get the flavor right.

------
AdmiralAsshat
We need better sieves. Tea-balls are awful, and the vast majority of tea
sieves are these tiny little mesh buckets that affix to the top of the kettle,
meaning they only even touch the water if the kettle is completely filled.
Then, to boot, they are so woefully undersized (probably for the sake of
making them easy to fit into the pot) that the tea leaves barely have any
place to bloom. The result is a very weak tasting cup of tea despite the
effort of having acquired good quality loose-leaf tea.

I eventually grew so annoyed with my teapot that I've let the leaves bloom
directly in the pot, and then put the sieve/filter into my _cup_ , so that it
will catch any leaves before I lift it out.

~~~
peterwwillis
You're supposed to brew the leaves in the pot. That's why traditional teapots
have built-in straining holes (or you can use an alternate vessel like a
Gaiwan). Most people rarely get the temperature right anyway so proper
extraction isn't usually a consideration.

That said, this thing is friggin magical:
[http://www.teavana.com/us/en/teaware/tea-
makers/teavana-32-o...](http://www.teavana.com/us/en/teaware/tea-
makers/teavana-32-oz-perfectea-maker-011034886.html)

~~~
ozy123
I have one, it's pretty awesome. Get 30% off - use FESTIVE at checkout.

------
JasonCEC
On the off-hand chance that anyone here is super obsessed with tea, I'm the
founder and director emeritus of The Tea Institute at Penn State[1], and blog
here: [2].

I now run a flavor profiling and quality intelligence company based off my
research in the Institute.

[1] [http://sites.psu.edu/teainstitute/](http://sites.psu.edu/teainstitute/)

[2] [http://cultofquality.com/](http://cultofquality.com/)

~~~
bootload
Jason, this write-up on AI and Tea rocks. Radiocarbon dating Tea to check
authenticity? [0] Have these techniques been applied to wine?

[0] _" Projects in Machine Learning and Artificial Intelligence on Tea"_ ~
[http://www.cultofquality.com/index.php/2015/05/projects-
in-m...](http://www.cultofquality.com/index.php/2015/05/projects-in-machine-
learning-and-artificial-intelligence-on-tea/)

~~~
JasonCEC
Hey Peter,

Thanks!

Radio Carbon dating is used for authenticating rare vintages of wine[0], but
it's a minor test for the most part.

In modern wine collecting, almost all of the fakes are focused around a few
_Gran Cru_ lots of small vineyards, like chateau lafite or Petrus.

It's actually not that hard to find wine from the 60's through 70's (or
earlier. Counterfeiters use real lesser wine from the right time period, and
forge the label and bottle - assuming they can't find an empty bottle from the
actual production run! These wines easily sells for upwards of ~$10,000 to 3 -
4 x that.

So radio carbon dating is only marginally useful in wine; you need to use
stable isotope ecology to see if the vintage matches the right terroir[1].

To make it even harder, most of the top vintages of French wine illegally
imported grapes from neighboring regions to increase their complexity and
overall flavor - this was a known but secret practice for about ~100 years,
and since the French AOC[2] cracked down on it, there are concerns that modern
wine lacking this complexity from blending will not age as well over ~20+
years.

I hope this information is helpful!

[0]
[http://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/pressroom/newsreleases/201...](http://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/pressroom/newsreleases/2010/march/detecting-
fake-wine-vintages-its-an-atomic-blast.html)

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terroir](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terroir)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appellation_d'origine_contr%C3...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appellation_d'origine_contr%C3%B4l%C3%A9e)

------
lukasm
British don't drink that much tea comparing to, say, Poles or Russians, which
was a surprise, since english books stereotype British as massive tea
drinkers.

My ideal tea is Earl Gray with lemon. Put a teabag in a cup with a tiny slice
of lemon (DO NOT peel off the skin, it's blasphemy). Pour boiling water into
the cup, wait 15 seconds, squeeze the teabag and lemon with a spoon and chuck
them. Good luck :)

You don't have to warm up the cup, just pour the boiling water straight away.
When water reaches tea it has around 95°C (204F).

Tea from warm water is indeed disgusting. Not a big fan of tea with milk,
although it work with Chai(especially Chai on milk).

PS never use sugar!

------
nosuchthing
"A Nice Cup of Tea", by George Orwell (1946) [
[http://pastebin.com/g3FSzqPv](http://pastebin.com/g3FSzqPv) ]

    
    
      If you look up ‘tea’ in the first cookery book that comes 
      to hand you will probably find that it is unmentioned; or 
      at most you will find a few lines of sketchy instructions 
      which give no ruling on several ofthe most important 
      points.
      
      This is curious, not only because tea is one of the main 
      stays of civilization in this country, as well as in 
      Eire, Australia and New Zealand, but because the best 
      manner of making it is the subject of violent disputes.
      
      
    
      When I look through my own recipe for the perfect cup of 
      tea, I find no fewer than eleven outstanding points. On 
      perhaps two of them there would be pretty general 
      agreement, but at least four others are acutely 
      controversial. Here are my own eleven rules, every one of 
      which I regard as golden:
      
      • First of all, one should use Indian or Ceylonese tea. 
      China tea has virtues which are not to be despised 
      nowadays — it is economical, and one can drink it without 
      milk — but there is not much stimulation in it. One does 
      not feel wiser, braver or more optimistic after drinking 
      it. Anyone who has used that comforting phrase 'a nice 
      cup of tea' invariably means Indian tea. 
      
      • Secondly, tea should be made in small quantities — that 
      is, in a teapot. Tea out of an urn is always tasteless, 
      while army tea, made in a cauldron, tastes of grease and 
      whitewash. The teapot should be made of china or 
      earthenware. Silver or Britanniaware teapots produce 
      inferior tea and enamel pots are worse; though curiously 
      enough a pewter teapot (a rarity nowadays) is not so bad. 
    
      • Thirdly, the pot should be warmed beforehand. This is 
      better done by placing it on the hob than by the usual 
      method of swilling it out with hot water.
    
      • Fourthly, the tea should be strong. For a pot holding a 
      quart, if you are going to fill it nearly to the brim, 
      six heaped teaspoons would be about right. In a time of 
      rationing, this is not an idea that can be realized on 
      every day of the week, but I maintain that one strong cup 
      of tea is better than twenty weak ones. All true tea 
      lovers not only like their tea strong, but like it a 
      little stronger with each year that passes — a fact which 
      is recognized in the extra ration issued to old-age 
      pensioners. 
    
      • Fifthly, the tea should be put straight into the pot. 
      No strainers, muslin bags or other devices to imprison 
      the tea. In some countries teapots are fitted with little 
      dangling baskets under the spout to catch the stray 
      leaves, which are supposed to be harmful. Actually one 
      can swallow tea-leaves in considerable quantities without 
      ill effect, and if the tea is not loose in the pot it 
      never infuses properly. 
    
      • Sixthly, one should take the teapot to the kettle and 
      not the other way about. The water should be actually 
      boiling at the moment of impact, which means that one 
      should keep it on the flame while one pours. Some people 
      add that one should only use water that has been freshly 
      brought to the boil, but I have never noticed that it 
      makes any difference. 
    
      • Seventhly, after making the tea, one should stir it, or 
      better, give the pot a good shake, afterwards allowing 
      the leaves to settle. 
      
      • Eighthly, one should drink out of a good breakfast cup 
      — that is, the cylindrical type of cup, not the flat, 
      shallow type. The breakfast cup holds more, and with the 
      other kind one's tea is always half cold before one has 
      well started on it. 
      
      • Ninthly, one should pour the cream off the milk before 
      using it for tea. Milk that is too creamy always gives 
      tea a sickly taste. 
    
      • Tenthly, one should pour tea into the cup first. This 
      is one of the most controversial points of all; indeed in 
      every family in Britain there are probably two schools of 
      thought on the subject. The milk-first school can bring 
      forward some fairly strong arguments, but I maintain that 
      my own argument is unanswerable. This is that, by putting 
      the tea in first and stirring as one pours, one can 
      exactly regulate the amount of milk whereas one is liable 
      to put in too much milk if one does it the other way 
      round. 
    
      • Lastly, tea — unless one is drinking it in the Russian 
      style — should be drunk without sugar. I know very well 
      that I am in a minority here. But still, how can you call 
      yourself a true tealover if you destroy the flavour of 
      your tea by putting sugar in it? It would be equally 
      reasonable to put in pepper or salt. Tea is meant to be 
      bitter, just as beer is meant to be bitter. If you   
      sweeten it, you are no longer tasting the tea, you are 
      merely tasting the sugar; you could make a very similar 
      drink by dissolving sugar in plain hot water.
      
       Some people would answer that they don't like tea in 
      itself, that they only drink it in order to be warmed and 
      stimulated, and they need sugar to take the taste away. 
      To those misguided people I would say: Try drinking tea 
      without sugar for, say, a fortnight and it is very 
      unlikely that you will ever want to ruin your tea by 
      sweetening it again. 
      
      
      These are not the only controversial points to arise in 
      connexion with tea drinking, but they are sufficient to 
      show how subtilized the whole business has become. There 
      is also the mysterious social etiquette surrounding the 
      teapot (why is it considered vulgar to drink out of your 
      saucer, for instance?) and much might be written about 
      the subsidiary uses of tealeaves, such as telling 
      fortunes, predicting the arrival of visitors, feeding 
      rabbits, healing burns and sweeping the carpet. It is 
      worth paying attention to such details as warming the pot 
      and using water that is really boiling, so as to make 
      quite sure of wringing out of one's ration the twenty 
      good, strong cups of that two ounces, properly handled, 
      ought to represent.

~~~
peterwwillis
....Thanks for the content, but could you put this in a pastebin, or link to a
source?

~~~
strayptr
I prefer that they posted it as an HN comment. Scrolling isn't difficult, and
mobile users rarely click on links. I probably wouldn't have read it if it was
in a pastebin or linked to a source.

------
flashman
Oh, h2g2. So close to being Wikipedia, just without the idea (or possibly the
courage) to let anyone edit an article.

------
alberte
If you want to try tea I wouldn't try earl grey first, it has a funny taste to
me - and I drink a lot of tea. Try english breakfast (twinings if you can get
it), or even better orange pekoe, but all the other instructions are spot on.

There are so many different flavours that black tea can be, no two brands
taste the same, if you really want to enjoy it though avoid supermarket tea
bags they are so very dull.

------
nikdaheratik
There are as many ways of brewing good tea as there are of good coffee (maybe
more). I've read this before and it is a good jumping off point for typical
English black tea in a teabag. Less good for other types (like green, oolong,
or herbal) which should be boiled at a lower temp for most and likely steeped
longer, though for some herbals, you just try it out to taste as far as
temperature and steeping goes.

For teapot and loose leaf, there are a number of other things to consider like
whether the pot is cold/lukewarm and how to handle the leaves, etc.

Equally important: most off-brand teas in the U.S. are low quality. Lipton in
America != Lipton in England/Australia. Also, (as someone mentioned) Earl Grey
is actually on the milder end of black teas and may not be a good starter
compared to typical Breakfast/Afternoon type teas. In short, Green tea is more
aromatic, Black tea has a stronger flavor with a nice finish in the better
blends. Earl Grey is more in the middle along with "Gunpowder Green".

------
deepnet
Tea provides much of the alertness of coffee and a sort of well-rounded
relaxation unlike the beam like focus and occasional jitters from coffee -
consuming both is best for a highly productive day.

~~~
alberte
Due to L-Theanine they say [http://www.worldoftea.org/caffeine-and-l-
theanine/](http://www.worldoftea.org/caffeine-and-l-theanine/) it relaxes you
and mellows out the caffeine

------
DrScump
For those of you in the Bay Area, do a tasting at Teance in Berkeley. Quality
and presentation are both exceptional.

Tastings are organized into flights, e.g. a flight of black teas, or oolongs,
or greens and whites.

[http://www.teance.com/](http://www.teance.com/)

------
ozy123
Kind of missed the point. Most people drink "bad" tea because they enjoy it.
In fact the "correct" way usually is rejected when tried by your average tea
drinker as being too strong.

------
peterwwillis

      In fact the truth of the matter is that most English people don't know how to
      make tea any more either, and most people drink cheap instant coffee instead,
      which is a pity, and gives Americans the impression that the English are just
      generally clueless about hot stimulants.
    

When you're using water that's 212 degrees, and measuring by teaspoon rather
than weight, and suggesting porcelain will hold the heat the longest, yes, I
think you're clueless about making tea.

    
    
      Bring the kettle back up to the boil, and then pour the boiling water as 
      quickly as you can into the pot. Let it stand for two or three minutes,
      and then pour it into a cup.
    

Higher than 208 degrees, with typical black teas, you're just accelerating the
steep time. Here he steeps for up to 3 minutes because the water was hotter;
at 208, you'd steep 5 minutes on average.

    
    
      Some people will tell you that you shouldn't have milk with Earl Grey, just 
      a slice of lemon. Screw them. I like it with milk.
    

THEN YOU'RE NOT DRINKING TEA! YOU'RE DRINKING A TEA LATTE!

..... Sorry. I just get upset when ignorant westerners think they're experts
about foreign food. Next thing you know they'll claim they've mastered curry
or something.

~~~
Spooky23
My grandmother drank earl grey and other commodity black tea with milk and two
cube of sugar for 80 years. I acquired the taste from enjoying my time with
her.

Why get upset about it? There's no ignorance to liking what you like.

