
Soylent Bar Has Arrived - deegles
http://blog.soylent.com/post/149036849637/soylent-bar-has-arrived
======
cgh
Uses soy protein, making it a non-starter for informed people wanting to
build/maintain muscle mass. A McMaster study[1] demonstrated that 20g of soy
protein (S20) was as effective at muscle protein synthesis (MPS) as 0g.

This bar contain 12g of soy protein, making it about as effective for MPS as
plain water.

[1]
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22698458?dopt=Citation](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22698458?dopt=Citation)

"RESULTS: Whole-body leucine oxidation increased with protein ingestion and
was significantly greater for S20 vs. W20 (P = 0.003). Rates of MPS for S20
were less than W20 (P = 0.02) and not different from 0 g (P = 0.41) in both
exercised and non-exercised leg muscles. For S40, MPS was also reduced
compared with W40 under both rested and post-exercise conditions (both P <
0.005); however S40 increased MPS greater than 0 g under post-exercise
conditions (P = 0.04)."

~~~
colept
Isn't that the point? It's not Muscle Milk or other mass-building
replacements.

~~~
dogma1138
You do understand your body needs to build muscles every day right?

If a large part of your protein intake is based on soy you can quickly start
to lose muscle mass which isn't great.

It looks like rapid weight loss but you are effectively gaining fat and losing
strength.

~~~
marricks
You're confusing maintaining muscle with gaining muscle. You don't have any
study supporting the claim that you would lose muscle by getting your protein
from soy. The only study here says that thirty 70+ year old men didn't _gain_
muscle while taking soy protein isolate.

------
SmallBets
Have they ever addressed concerns about endocrine/hormone disruption from
using soy protein so heavily? I steer clear of the stuff with a 10 foot pole.

~~~
forgetsusername
Do you have any sources for the disturption? I hear this from time to time,
but whatever I read points to _possible_ connections relating to _very_ high
consumption of soy products. But I'm cautious.

I half believe the dairy industry actively spreads the negativity.

~~~
tcoppi
[http://examine.com/supplements/soy-
isoflavones/](http://examine.com/supplements/soy-isoflavones/) Specifically
section 9. Also [http://examine.com/nutrition/is-soy-good-or-bad-for-
me/](http://examine.com/nutrition/is-soy-good-or-bad-for-me/)

Based on that and other reading I've done I wouldn't be worried about
occasional soy intake, but ingesting every meal of nearly pure soy product as
one might if they used Soylent could be cause for concern for males.

~~~
marricks
Just to highlight what I think is a pretty important point in the source:

> Most well-conducted meta-analyses come to similar conclusions. _The evidence
> is too weak or varied to come to the conclusion that 'soy reduces
> testosterone'_.

They go on to say that it could be linked, maybe, but probably only for
drastic over-consumption. In short, even with study there isn't enough
information to come to a real conclusion so effects are probably minimal if at
all.

Also, interestingly,

> The 25g of soy protein a day is consistent with the claim that "Soy protein
> can reduce occurrence of cardiovascular disease" which is approved by the
> FDA for products with more than 6.25g soy protein.

Which has a ton of sources and supports soy will help most people. The effect
may not be huge, but it's more well documented.

Over all, it seems people are better off eating more soy.

~~~
tcoppi
I don't have a source off hand but I remember the heart-healthy effects of soy
being quite small in magnitude. Personally I try to avoid anything that has
the potential to be a strong endocrine or hormone disruptor like soy and
plastic products. That is nearly impossible these days, but it makes me feel
better :)

~~~
marricks
It may be small, but if you read the source far more documented and larger
than any potential "hormone effect" of soy. Also larger practical effect on
your life.

~~~
tcoppi
There's plenty of evidence in the links I posted for a large effect of _high
concentrations_ of circulating soy compounds in the body. I don't doubt that
it is a non-issue for most people consuming normal amounts of soy. The issues
I have, and they are not well studied, is 1) what do concentrations look like
over long periods of normal-to-higher consumption of soy products(like long-
term usage of Soylent, nearly 100% soy protein) 2) is there an additive or
synergistic effect with other, stronger hormone and endocrine disrupting
compounds like those found in some plastics and plasticizers, your exposure to
which is effectively impossible to eliminate in modern life. Neither of those
two are well studied, and I'd personally like to try and reduce my exposure to
either situation.

Most people don't care, and that's fine, but there is evidence it could be a
problem.

Edit: I'll also add that to be fair to Soylent, they use Soy Protein Isolate,
which has drastically reduced levels of soy isoflavones compared to straight
soy protein. That alone probably reduces any potential harm to near-zero, but
I personally like to reduce my exposure as much as possible, so as long as
there are alternatives that are equal or better(as there are with soy) I will
reduce my exposure. YPRCMV(your personal risk calculation may vary).

------
donretag
As a cyclist that loves to do long solo rides, I often look for nutrient dense
foods that are easy to carry. Thirty grams of carbohydrates is better than
most energy gels and snacks.

$2 per bar is a tad steep considering my normal costs. I might purchase a box
if I hear that the flavor is decent (and my current supplies run out).

~~~
genetik
This is my planned use-case for the Soylent bars also.

My biggest concern is that it might not hold up in hot climates (see: Texas)
during rides. I've already tried other bars that turn to mush in heat.

I also agree about the cost, since you can buy clif bars in bulk for less than
$1.50/ea. And lately I've just been taking bananas with me on rides, which are
like $0.10/ea.

I ordered a box earlier today, so we'll see how it works out. Worst case
scenario, I keep them around for when I travel.

~~~
donretag
I live in SoCal, so I also have to avoid bars that might melt. Chewy granola
bars do not handle well, but cereal bars do. Looking at my pantry, Trader Joe
fig bars have 27 grams of carbs, but only 2g of protein. Honey Stinger waffles
have the same amount of grams, but half the protein. Why are they around $1
per waffle? They do taste great and love that they pack flat.

I find Clif Bars junk, mostly sugar, but they do hold up in the heat. It might
be hotter in Texas, but you are in the flats. When I am climbing Mt. Wilson on
a bike, there are no stores to replenish my food supplies, except at the top.
I cannot deviate from the only road just to grab something from a store. There
is a ranger station halfway for water.

BTW, Clif Bars should be $1 at Whole Foods or Trader Joes, or at least they
used to be.

------
Animats
It's like Calorie Mate Balanced Food Block, from Otsuka Pharmaceutical Co.
That's humanoid chow for Japanese salarymen. Like the Soylent product, it's in
very plain packaging. It's not as soy-heavy as Soylent; it has wheat flour and
wheat and soy protein. Some milk and egg powder, too. Tastes like shortbread.

This is quite successful in Japan, and often found in vending machines. The
manufacturer doesn't recommend living entirely on the stuff, though.

------
colept
If you're curious about cost-effectiveness of their bar vs their drink:

Soylent 2.0 Bottle = 400 Calories, ~$29 for 12 bottles (via Amazon) works out
to ~166 calories per dollar.

Soylent Bar = 250 calories, $24 for 12 bars (via Soylent.com) works out to
~120 calories per dollar.

~~~
misframer
Where are you seeing the bottles on Amazon for $28? I see the same price as
Soylent.com ($34.00 without a subscription).

~~~
colept
If you subscribe and save it works out to $28.90 (updating original comment)

------
revelation
40/40/20 carb/fat/protein seems to suggest they didn't really know where to go
with this. No point to have the fat for endurance sports, probably too little
protein for sports that care about that, no information on the glycemic index
for the carbs.

~~~
nazca
Yeah, I'd really like to see more specialized options for other diets. I'd
like to have a ketogenic option.

~~~
tcoppi
A version with whey or pea protein and less carbs would make me a convert for
two out of three meals a day, if not all three during the work week.

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habosa
I wonder if this will make you feel as 'full' as the soylent drink? Generally
liquids do a much better job of making you feel full quickly, which would
reduce your desire to eat something else.

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MrZongle2
Geez, why have an advertising department when the online tech community will
do all the heavy lifting? /s

If you went by Ars stories and HN links, you'd think the software industry was
fueled by Soylent and insect protein.

------
readhn
How much sugar is in each bar? in grams?

~~~
JimLaheyMD
6

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glibgil
The Soylent drink is silly. Easy, shelf-stable food is not hard to acquire.
For a good meal mix the following into a drink. A no-bake bar recipe shouldn't
be too difficult to create either.

[pea protein]([https://www.amazon.com/Now-Foods-Pea-Protein-
Pound/dp/B001DB...](https://www.amazon.com/Now-Foods-Pea-Protein-
Pound/dp/B001DB4MFO/ref=sr_1_2_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1471375167&sr=8-2&keywords=pea+protein))

[mct oil]([https://www.amazon.com/NOW-Foods-
MCT-100%25-Oil/dp/B00KPZXER...](https://www.amazon.com/NOW-Foods-
MCT-100%25-Oil/dp/B00KPZXER6/ref=sr_1_7_s_it?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1471375195&sr=1-7&keywords=mct+oil&refinements=p_85%3A2470955011))

[hemp hearts]([https://www.amazon.com/Manitoba-Harvest-Hearts-Shelled-
natur...](https://www.amazon.com/Manitoba-Harvest-Hearts-Shelled-
natural/dp/B00856TSCC/ref=sr_1_2_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1471375339&sr=8-2&keywords=hemp+hearts&refinements=p_85%3A2470955011))

[peanut butter]([https://www.amazon.com/Peanut-Butter-Pure-Pure-Fresh-
Ground/...](https://www.amazon.com/Peanut-Butter-Pure-Pure-Fresh-
Ground/dp/B00U2X0Z3W/ref=sr_1_1_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1471375422&sr=8-1&keywords=fresh+peanut+butter&refinements=p_85%3A2470955011))

[banana]([https://www.amazon.com/produce-aisle-mburring-Bananas-
bunch/...](https://www.amazon.com/produce-aisle-mburring-Bananas-
bunch/dp/B000NOGLY2/ref=sr_1_1_a_f_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1471375577&sr=8-1&ppw=fresh&keywords=bananas))

Take a vitamin separately:

[vitamin]([https://www.amazon.com/Rainbow-Light-Active-Multivitamin-
Tab...](https://www.amazon.com/Rainbow-Light-Active-Multivitamin-
Tablets/dp/B000EEBWJA/ref=sr_1_4_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1471375531&sr=8-4&keywords=Rainbow+Light+vitamins&refinements=p_85%3A2470955011))

~~~
josephpmay
This reminds me of the infamous Dropbox comment

(See the second comment:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8863](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8863)
)

~~~
glibgil
Except that Dropbox is better than a series of scripts. Soylent is not.
Soylent suffers from being something less than the sum of its parts. It is
undesirable

~~~
josephpmay
You're missing my point. Yea, you could take the time to choose the right
formula, find all the right ingredients, buy them, measure the right amounts,
mix them, remember to buy more of each when they run out, etc. OR you could
just have cases of it automatically shipped to your door each month.

I agree with the "something less than the sum of its parts" sentiment for the
original Soylent, but Soylent 2.0 is vastly better, and I hear Coffiest is
actually good tasting.

------
shmerl
I thought of Make Room! Make Room! / Soylent Green when I saw the title.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Make_Room!_Make_Room](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Make_Room!_Make_Room)!

