
Carlos Ghosn Flees to Lebanon to Escape Japan Legal System - JumpCrisscross
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-12-30/carlos-ghosn-left-japan-arrived-in-beirut-reports-say
======
braythwayt
The press is certainly painting him as a fairly classic example of a celebrity
CEO whose real expertise is looting the companies he runs, rather than turning
them around.

On the flip side of that... I quake with terror at the thought of ever being
charged with a crime in Japan. Repeated interrogations without the right to
have a lawyer present? Delaying charges in order to secure multiple
detentions? Harsh conditions of bail?

All of these things seem to be engineered to produce guilty pleas or
convictions without a lot of pesky pushback from the accused.

~~~
bluedevil2k
In another article about Ghosn, it stated that in Japan there's a 99%
conviction rate. That is scary.

~~~
braythwayt
If we read the same article, it suggested that Britain’s conviction rate was
around 87%^H^H^H 80%.

(Hat tip to peteretep for the updated figure).

~~~
peteretep
80% in the UK vs 99% in Japan

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conviction_rate](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conviction_rate)

~~~
dmix
Most criminal defence attorneys will admit that the _most_ of the people they
work with are guilty. It’s just how the police and justice system works when
you get caught and what cases go forward. But 99% will always be insane and a
giant red flashing light indicator of something is wrong.

 _At least_ 5-10% of people get off on technical details the police or
prosecutors messed up or just good lawyering of guilty people. The rest the
cases fall apart before trial because of witnesses or other evidence and turns
of events. (I’m pulling these numbers out of my ass just to make a point).

The problems in Japan are with the due process and a serious lack of rights of
the accused. Even if we completely ignore the conviction rates.

~~~
peteretep
I’ve read a competing theory of Japan which says prosecutors are so over-
worked they only go through with cases they know they’ll win. I wonder how one
would decide?

In the UK, the CPS only prosecute cases with “a reasonable chance of
conviction”, which I guess means they essentially choose the conviction rate
they’re aiming for?

~~~
dmix
That sounds like the same bullshit line that the FISA courts give their 99%+
approval rating for domestic surveillance warrants.

We saw how that works in practice recently with that FBI report where the
judges were basically yes men trusting everything the FBI told them without
even basic scrutiny...

The Japanese system is more on the input end regarding due process and rights
to counsel.

------
ordinaryperson
I'm no fan of fatcat CEOs but by most accounts the charges against Ghosn are
weak at best. See: [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-01-31/inside-
th...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-01-31/inside-the-takedown-
of-renault-nissan-chairman-carlos-ghosn)

Specifically he's accused of:

1) Concealing the true scale of his retirement package, none of which had been
paid

2) During the '08 crisis he had Nissan temporarily take on hedging contracts
(used to blunt the impact of currency fluctuations of the yen) since his bank
was demanding collateral he didn't have; then later securing a line of credit
from a Saudi businessman who was paid $14 million by Nissan (ostensibly for
regional distribution)

I'm no forensic accountant but that's not a lot of smoke, much less fire. The
retirement package was still theoretical and it's hard to believe a man being
paid $20 million a year was really engaging in financial skullduggery for what
amounted to peanuts of his net worth.

As others in this thread have pointed out, this seems to be a case of the
Japanese looking down on greed, whereas it's the norm in America and some
parts of Europe.

Also the Japanese were possibly reluctant to see a big Japanese company
(Nissan) subsumed into a large international behemoth (Ghosn was trying to
formally merge Renault and Nissan at the time of his arrest).

Ghosn is probably right that he can't get a fair trial in Japan's notoriously
prosecutor-friendly justice system. Even the Businessweek article notes the
conviction rate is at or near 100%.

Ghosn may have been arrogant and greedy but unless new details are presented
the publicly available evidence suggests these charges are extremely flimsy.

~~~
mytailorisrich
Whether or not he is guilty of any wrongdoings, I think what many people have
picked up is what seems to be 'special treatment' he received from the
Japanese authorities.

It seems very rare, if not unheard of, in Japan for a CEO to be arrested and
thrown to prison the way he was.

For example the 3 former execs of Tepco who have been charged with criminal
negligence in relation with the Fukushima disaster have never been arrested. I
don't think that execs at Kobe Steel who knew about falsified data regarding
defective airbags were arrested. Etc.

On the other hand, Olympus CEO, first foreign CEO, was fired for blowing the
whistle on accounting fraud within the company...

~~~
ordinaryperson
I agree, it was odd the way they immediately threw the book at him.

Look at the Takata airbag executives. Their decisions resulted in the actual
deaths of human beings and they were not treated as harshly.

------
gryson
The way this has all unfolded is very interesting.

From the beginning, Ghosn has employed a team of publicists to manage his
image during the arrest and trial. Their primary focuses have been on
highlighting the injustices of the legal system in Japan and on portraying an
apparent conspiracy against Ghosn perpetuated by Nissan and the Japanese
government. It's not hard to see how successful they've been in getting
support for Ghosn.

Meanwhile, this strategy has successfully shifted focus away from the charges
themselves - charges that include Ghosn secretly shifting $5 million from
Nissan to companies his wife and son own in Lebanon.

One point that is interesting in hindsight is that Ghosn decried the injustice
of not receiving bail in January, when prosecutors successfully argued that he
was a flight risk. He received it in March with heavy restrictions.

In hindsight, the strategy of managing his image, promoting a conspiracy, and
denouncing injustice, all while diverting attention away from the charges,
seems built with the intended outcome of him fleeing the country. Of course,
it probably wasn't planned that way, but it's certainly better to flee and
rebuild your life when international public opinion is in support of you
rather than against.

In any event, the likely outcome now is that we will never find out the truth
behind the four charges against Ghosn.

~~~
totalZero
Considering that he fled, I think we can at least say that the Japanese system
was correct and accurate in assessing that Ghosn was a flight risk.

~~~
asdfasgasdgasdg
That said, I always wonder why people don't abscond more often when facing
charges that will see them jailed for the rest of their lives. I suppose it's
more likely than not that he did at least some of the dirt he's accused of.
But from his personal perspective, the choices are the life of a fugitive and
the life of a prisoner (in Japan, no less, which is famous for its harsh
treatment of prisoners). For me, the choice would be obvious.

~~~
dnskxbzj
You give our word not to flee. For some of us the dishonor for breaking our
word is worse than being jailed unjustly.

Besides, liberal freeing society collapses if we cannot or will not hold
people to their word, replaced by totalitarianism.

~~~
keiferski
And what happens when the government doesn’t stick to their word?

Nothing. Asymmetrical power relationships are complicated.

~~~
dnskxbzj
So? My honor, like my privacy, is valuable to me without having to attach to
it a material worth. My honor is refusing to live a lie and therefore denying
myself.

I would much rather die knowing I lived like Havel, then his infamous grocer.

(In case you don’t know Havel, he’s one of the thousands of bright lights who
refused to live a comfortable lie in the Eastern bloc and took down an empire.
The government is more scared of honorable men, then men who would flee)

------
song
To be honest, given the state of the Japanese system[1], if I were in his
position, I would escape and skip bail... I have lived in Japan and love the
country but I would be really scared if for whatever reason I were to be
suspected by the police there.

[1] Japan has very few protection for suspects and more than 99% conviction
rate. There's a great movie about the justice system there that is worth
seeing: I Just Didn't Do It, それでもボクはやってない

------
mc32
How does someone with multiple organizations shadowing him skip bail?

"The terms of Mr Ghosn’s detention meant he could leave his flat while on
bail, but he was followed by three agencies — the police, prosecutors and a
private detective."[1]

[1][https://www.ft.com/content/e0330dbe-2b45-11ea-a126-99756bd8f...](https://www.ft.com/content/e0330dbe-2b45-11ea-a126-99756bd8f45e)

~~~
braythwayt
The escape reads like a Bond movie. An orchestra gave a performance at his
house, and when it left, he was hidden in one of the boxes used to carry
instruments.

That same box was then flown to Turkey in a private plane, with him in it.

It’s reported that his wife arranged the entire affair.

~~~
JumpCrisscross
> _An orchestra gave a performance at his house, and when it left, he was
> hidden in one of the boxes used to carry instruments_

Source?

~~~
tyingq
Most of the stories I can find are sourcing a tweet from an MTV (edit: Murr
TV) producer in Lebanon, which is a little odd. This one:
[https://twitter.com/jossie_jaalouk/status/121177472470926540...](https://twitter.com/jossie_jaalouk/status/1211774724709265408)

Mentions the musical instrument box, but I don't see the other details.

Edit: This site has the story including the band. No idea how credible it
might be: [https://gulfnews.com/world/did-nissans-carlos-ghosn-flee-
jap...](https://gulfnews.com/world/did-nissans-carlos-ghosn-flee-japan-in-a-
musical-instrument-box-1.1577791981610)

~~~
JumpCrisscross
> _stories I can find are sourcing a tweet from an MTV producer in Lebanon_

On one hand, Ghosn is in Lebanon. That’s where people with the full story are.

On the other hand, Ghosn is popular there. An MI6-style escape sounds better
than the likelier reality of massive bribes having been paid.

~~~
9nGQluzmnq3M
I really doubt you could pull this off in Japan with bribes: there are way too
many parties involved and way too much public scrunity. Sneaking out of the
country seems much more plausible.

~~~
JumpCrisscross
Sneaking out of an island country while under state surveillance generally
requires greasing a few palms. Not necessarily to knowingly co-operate. But to
look the other way.

~~~
asdfasgasdgasdg
Do you have personal experience or knowledge of island country escapes on
which you're basing this claim? Would you mind sharing your sources?

~~~
JumpCrisscross
> _Would you mind sharing your sources?_

Simply getting through immigration and customs requires (a) gambling you get a
distracted agent or (b) paying a bribe. Given the consequences with (a), it's
not surprising that pretty much every fugitive-by-air account features bribes.

There are many more steps that are tightly watched in getting on an
international flight, even one privately chartered, particularly out of Japan.

------
g-888
I am Japanese and know a little about this incident. Mr. Ghosn was arrested by
an organization that specializes in investigating corruption and financial
crime. They are under strong political pressure and will be shut down if Mr.
Ghosn is acquitted. This means that Japanese corruption and financial crime
will increase. So they will use whatever means they can to convict Mr. Ghosn.

~~~
JumpCrisscross
> _They are under strong political pressure and will be shut down if Mr. Ghosn
> is acquitted_

Yes, prosecutors are incentivized to close their cases, and yes, Japanese
prosecutors are very conservative about choosing which cases to bring. But
nobody was threatening to shut anything down (nor would such an action be
politically or bureaucratically feasible) based on the outcome of the trial.

~~~
g-888
Mr. Ghosn was arrested by an organization called the Special Investigation
Department (Tokusoubu). Tokusoubu is hated by politicians and corporate
executives to investigate corruption and financial crime. The authorities were
always trying to shut down Tokusoubu, and in fact were weakening. It is
unlikely that those in power will be able to intervene in the judiciary, but
if Mr. Ghosn is acquitted, Tokusoubu is likely to be closed down.

------
im3w1l
> Japanese prosecutors and the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission both
> claim Ghosn and Nissan violated pay-disclosure rules

> within days of his arrest, a billboard with his portrait loomed over the
> streets leading to downtown Beirut. “We are all Carlos Ghosn,” it read. The
> executive’s incarceration united the country’s usually fractious politicians
> around him.

Interesting how different he is viewed by different countries.

------
kashprime
I can't wait for the Netflix series on this. Having lived with many of them
over the years, I've always admired the sheer entrepreneurial energy of the
Lebanese diaspora. Remember, Carthage was founded by ancient Phoenicians
(modern-day Lebanon) and its strength came from its business and financial
prowess [0]... and was Rome's greatest threat at the time. This [1] more
recent article from the Economist discusses this as well.
[0][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Carthage#Economy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Carthage#Economy)
[1][https://www.economist.com/business/2013/03/16/a-tale-of-
two-...](https://www.economist.com/business/2013/03/16/a-tale-of-two-traders)

------
chvid
I am going to go out on a stretch and say that reason he fled is that he is
guilty of what he is being suspected of and not because Japan has a "rigged"
legal system. And his corrupt buddies back in Lebanon are helping him because
he has got millions in ill gotten gains stashed away there.

~~~
Voloskaya
> I am going to go out on a stretch and say that reason he fled is that he is
> guilty of what he is being suspected of and not because Japan has a "rigged"
> legal system.

Him fleeing doesn't give you any new information on wether he is guilty or
not.

If I was innocent but accused of his crimes in Japan, I would also flee,
because once you are accused in Japan their is basically no way to defend
yourself, you are going to get convicted no matter what, so why would anyone,
guilty or not, stay?

------
PedroBatista
I'm pretty sure Ghosn isn't a saint, but he has a strong point regarding the
Japanese Legal System which in practical terms is no system at all since if
you get accused of something there's an almost 100% chance you'll get
convicted no matter what.

Also, AFAIK the Japanese side of the board has been withholding information,
straight up lying and everything in between to the other part of the board
regarding strategic and everyday operations stuff.

I don't know if it's due to the usual egomania and personal agendas, but if
their strategy is to burn the 3rd biggest automaker to the ground and then be
kings of their little kingdoms they are doing a great job.

------
jnmandal
It is amazing how much impunity billionaires the wealthy and powerful seem to
world.

~~~
Quarrelsome
to be fair anyone can technically skip bail. But the resources to properly fly
are obviously dictated by wealth and power.

~~~
sbarre
The article also claims he entered Lebanon on a fake (or at the very least not
his own) French passport.

Moving internationally with fraudulent credentials would land most people in
jail, but it seems the local government "loves" the man (no doubt his money
helps with political favours), so he's safe from that too.

~~~
bluedevil2k
He entered Turkey with a fake passport, maybe the Turkish government issued
him a new valid Turkish passport? And I would have to think he already had the
OK from the Lebanese government to travel there and stay there without being
extradited.

~~~
tyingq
Lebanese TV says he entered Lebanon on a French passport. It sounds like Japan
didn't confiscate all of his passports. It's likely he has three...France,
Brazil, and Lebanon.

~~~
zorked
If Japan confiscated his passports he can probably just go to a consulate and
get a new one.

------
LatteLazy
I'm no fan of CEOs, but can anyone here honestly say they would stay and stand
trial in a place with a 99.9% conviction rate? That's stalinist level
"justice".

------
HacklesRaised
I don't know if he's guilty or not, but he has just, single handedly, made
bale for high profile indictees very difficult indeed.

He's under indictment for corruption, and fled the country using what can only
be described as corrupt means, hardly an endorsement.

Compare and contrast with the treatment of Julian Assange.

