
Ask HN: What do you love about your office? - qixxiq
I'm looking at starting an office for my startup in South Africa. Since I haven't seen how its done in the US does anyone have any suggestions of things that work well?<p>Productivity systems / white-boards / game consoles / nap couches (and dark rooms) / ...
======
robfitz
I disagree with many replies thus far.

Take advantage of stuff that already exists outside your building. Don't try
to make the office "fun" prematurely, there are lots of places your team can
walk to in 5 minutes. Similarly, fancy conference rooms are a waste when nice
hotel cafes are way slicker and you can eat/drink like a king at every meeting
for years compared to the cost of setting up your own conf room.

For chairs, I like the Ikea Markus for about $100, which I find just as good
as an Aeron.

You need whiteboards, but NEVER buy them new. I buy the huge ones for about
$20 a piece from office furniture repo stores. You'll also get desks,
cabinets, etc there for 10% of their normal price.

Give good people the ability to work in comfort with enough space to
themselves under relatively quiet conditions, and you'll get good results. Buy
second hand and don't try to build everything into your little home -- take
advantage of the city around you.

Edit: and lots of blank wall space, which allows people to brainstorm and
create their own productivity systems with post-its and masking tape.

------
patrickyeon
Nothing. I hate it.

If I may, a case study of how to make a shitty office:

* Find space based mainly on price. Who cares if it's nearly a different city from where your whole team lives?

* Don't worry about natural light (or even worse, due to whatever circumstances ensure that only some people get natural light)

* Take whatever furniture is lying around.

* Everyone gets the cheapest refurbed machine you can find. If it was good enough for some office worker in 2002, it's good enough for your dev team now!

* Don't get anymore space than you need. When a new hire arrives, they can set up their 'office' in the storage/server room.

* Some cheap-o phones and Skype over a residential-grade DSL line is all you need. It doesn't look bad at all if you start every conversation with "H-hello? Can you hear me? I'm using Skype and-- oh there you are"

EDIT: formatting

------
philjackson
People have talked about the obvious things so I'd like to toss in:

* The reason I go into the office, rather than work from home, is the people there.

* I feel a thousand times better at the end of the day if I can see natural light.

* Running the OS/editor I want to is important.

------
StefanKarpinski
That it's awesome:

<http://mashable.com/2010/10/13/etsy-office-pics/>

I'm an applied mathematician and data scientist at Etsy, and the office is
really, really cool. My cousin, who's an architect from Sweden came to visit
with his wife and son recently, and described it as a cross between design/art
school, playground for grownups, and a computer lab. That's about right. His
kid didn't want to leave :-)

We don't have much in the way of silence though—there's a lot of chaos and the
place is a (very entertaining) circus much of the time. But if you want peace
and quiet, it's pretty much always cool to work from home.

------
staunch
Natural sunlight. Parking 6ft from the entrance. FIOS internet. Walkable,
safe, upbeat neighborhood. High resolution monitor. Excellent keyboard. Good
chair. Quiet and secure building.

If I had two requests: private bathroom and private kitchen area.

~~~
PStamatiou
I have to agree... the one thing I desperately want is natural sunlight. I
work on the bottom floor of a complex that faces an atrium, so it's like
living on the bottom of the rainforest. I get very little light and have no
view. It's kind of depressing without a view. I was at a friend's place in
Berkeley yesterday and they had a great setup with natural light coming
through on all sides of the house: <http://picplz.com/user/stammy/pic/hxzl/>

The first thing that came to mind is how much better (not sure if that is the
right word) I would feel if working in a naturally lit place like that (with a
nice view to boot).

The second big thing would be a hi-res monitor, ex 27-inch ACD. That combined
with virtual desktops makes a world of difference, even compared to 1920x1200
res.

Third, I would want a decent kitchen area. I don't want to have to go out and
eat all the time, because most places workplaces go to eat out at isn't
healthy or doesn't have the option of healthy food. I'd much rather have a
fridge full of stuff I can cook a quick 10 minute meal with. Working on a
startup and eating healthy are not mutually exclusive. And on that note,
office space near a gym for the walk back would be nice.

~~~
financegeek
If you find this place, please, please let me know. I'd take a 20k pay cut to
get out of my cube that opens on a fairly busy hallway, no natural light,
uncomfortable imitation "mesh back chair" and mini-fridge with a k-cup machine
for a 70 person work group.

------
bearwithclaws
My gym (inside the office). My office is a small room in my rented home and
I've divided it into two parts (a work area and a gym area). I have a long bar
(with weights, of course), a few dumbbells, yoga mat, jumping rope and a
fitball. I could exercise throughout my workday, literally few steps away.

------
jnorion
Obviously things like the view out the window and the amenities in the
neighborhood are not always the easiest to control, and have huge impact on
the price and availability of an office. So I'll focus on the little things
that make a huge difference for me at work.

\- Coffee, tea, and good water available. I do like taking breaks at times to
run out to the coffee shop, but sometimes I just don't have time or energy or
money, and being able to step into the kitchen and get what I need is great.

\- Full spectrum "natural" lighting. I'm lucky that my office has tons of
windows and a view, but when it gets dark or when I'm working on something
detailed at my desk, a good full spectrum light is really important both for
accurate color and just to be nice to my eyes.

\- Dual computer monitors. I suppose this is a bit subjective but I go insane
if I don't have a second monitor (doesn't have to be anything special, mine's
just a small square) to put things like email and music and reference
documents on while I work.

\- Refrigerator space. I try to bring lunch most of the week instead of eating
out, and more often than not it's leftovers from dinner with other random
things thrown in... being able to just toss it in the fridge in the morning is
great.

\- A comfortable desk chair. I don't know about the $1200 chair (I certainly
couldn't afford one at this point) but make sure it won't hurt your back after
sitting for a long time.

------
Fritzinger
Awesome! Another South African on HN. Not in the US but I think our guys have
gotten a lot of things right (Cape Town software house):

1) The view - I'll be impressed if anyone can better this - the flat side of
Table Mountain on the one side, the sea on the other, at night the lights of
Long Street stretch out in front of us, and a good view of the stadium if
that's your thing. I think that's just luck of the draw though, the company
moved here before the CTN foreshore became fashionable.

2) There is no such thing as too many whiteboards, although glass walls with
writing on them is also pretty awesome.

3) Great canteen with space to prepare food if you aren't into buying, but on
a related note...

4) Close to decent food places, including one favourite that sells sandwich
ingredients for a good price

5) A decent number of meeting rooms with whiteboards (the more I work the less
I want to use projectors.. but we do have those too)

6) Unlikely that anyone else here would think of this, but you'll know why I
bring this up: safety at night... again, luck of the draw but there's a CIDC
station positioned half-way between us and the car park, and often a fair
number of people around after dark. For me being able to work late (as opposed
to early) is A Big Deal.

7) Not my thing but other people like proximity to gym - some cycle to work
and shower before coming into the office, others hop in the pool during lunch.

8) There's a TV per floor with one or the other DSTV lite package, basically
sports + discovery + Music channels (Mythbusters is most popular lunchtime
viewing). The console of some sort that gets close to zero attention

9) (Soft) drinks fridge that is rapidly shortening my lifespan + fruit juice
that runs out very quickly

10) A cleaner who brings real character to the office, as well as clean dishes

11) EDIT: forgot, we do have what looks like a decent coffee machine (does
foam and stuff) but I'm not a good judge as I'm the only HN reader who doesn't
drink the stuff. It is in constant use though.

12) EDIT: forgot some more... WATER COOLER FTW... I like that it is the kind
that filters tap water and not the kind that takes those huge bottles of
environmentally unsustainable mineral water.

Disclaimer... we're not a huge company but definitely not startup anymore,
+-50 in our CTN office.

~~~
financegeek
If only you could pop down to muizenberg to catch a few waves during lunch I'd
say you have the perfect hook up.

------
bdb27
Likes:

-Our building is 100 feet from the ocean up on the cliffs. Going outside to get some air and see the Pacific is quite refreshing. It is also a few minutes away from a very nice surf spot.

-We have a nice clean kitchen.

-Plenty of space with large desks, Aeron chairs, and all the pixels you can handle.

-Fresh water. This is big for me since I drink a lot of water.

-Fast network connection. Not blazing fast, but fast enough.

-We have a very nice gym onsite complete with lockers, trainers, massage therapists, pool, track, volleyball, etc.

-Parking right outside building.

-Office is always clean.

-Nice restaurants nearby.

Dislikes:

-Lots of noise/people talking. 90% of it is not work related or interesting which is more the problem than the noise. This quote from PG's quotes page pretty well sums it up: "I'm surrounded by postmodern idiots and blatherers. Your writings give me hope."

-We have quite a bit of wasted space. e.g. a conference area which is rarely used. This space could be used better.

-Restrooms are to small and don't accommodate a full office well. Luckily there are others to use neraby.

------
mbthomas
The most appreciated perks at my office are out table-tennis and foosball
games. I think they beat video game consoles / TVs / etc for a few reasons:

\- even the minimal amount of physical activity they provide is a great break
from sitting at a desk

\- inter-office rivalry is great fun

Also, healthy food is a must, and like others have said office location is
huge.

------
iuguy
We have nice big desks. The chairs aren't Aerons but we don't buy them (in our
last office we bought cheap chairs and they sucked. I promised never to do
that again, in our next office if I'm buying the chairs, everyone is getting
an awesome chair).

We have natural light but I want a balcony. I think if we had a balcony it
would be nicer for smokers (smoking's not permitted in the building) and we'd
get a decent view of whatever's around.

We're pretty lucky. You can see the Kennet Canal from our roof, but otherwise
it just looks like urban Reading, Berkshire, UK. Lately with the frankly crap
weather we have more light from above than from outside.

We have a wide selection of alcoholic drinks and hangover cures - ornamental
of course. It's mostly wacky stuff we'd never drink, although there's an
'Emergency Guinness' and this weird stuff called 'Dr Hangover - with 47
ingredients!'. We have a Nabaztag that tells us when pentests finish, when
investigations are over and when we get paid. Unfortunately he's very insecure
so we keep him on his own network.

We don't have whiteboards - we used to but not anymore. Instead we have
detachable flipchart paper and blu tack. It's like infinite white boards, that
is actually awesome. You just take it down when you don't need it.

We have a golden lucky chinese cat from vegas and a book with pictures of
Japanese girls in school uniforms. I think there's a reason for both but I
still haven't worked it out.

A good coffee machine/water cooler (hooked up to the mains) is essential. It
doesn't have to be in your office, just in your building.

We're near a train station so parking isn't important. Being in a city it
turns out is important for us. You can go on your lunchbreak and do pretty
much anything and get back in time for work. In our last office we couldn't do
that, and frankly compared to our own office it sucks.

I'd avoid game consoles, nap couches, dark rooms etc. What's the point? I
worked in one office with a fussball table. It was great to play but bad to
work around. Focus on what makes people work well and keeps people happy, not
what compensates for suck.

------
johngalt
One thing I've always wished for but never had.

Quiet time: One hour every day where no one can schedule meetings or call
their co-workers. One hour of zero interruptions. Most tech people I know work
after hours or from home, just to get this.

I'll spend 30mins in the morning carefully writing an email to detail the
current status of my project. Then I'll get four or five 5-15min drivebys
interspersed throughout the day to ask about updates, estimates, timelines,
changes, or other projects. Part of the frustration is not even knowing if I
can start a complicated task before someone comes in to derail it.

~~~
netc
Try talking to your team members and manager. One of my senior colleague who
mas mentoring others was in similar situation. He worked out a deal with the
manager - no interruption from 10am to 12 noon. He even got a board saying
'Quiet Hour 10 to 12' outside his cubicle. It took us a week to realize he was
serious when our manager told us. We respected his quiet hours.

------
gatsby
A lot depends on your space and budget, but whether you're working with 400
sq. ft. and a $1000 budget, or your own building and a seven-figure budget, it
usually helps to look through pictures for inspiration.

Just for example, I'm a big fan of the new 37signals office:
[http://37signals.com/svn/posts/2593-official-pictures-of-
our...](http://37signals.com/svn/posts/2593-official-pictures-of-our-new-
office)

I’ve worked in and designed several offices and regardless of the company size
or budget, it’s important to get a few key things right:

1\. Quality lighting - The more windows you can get, the better, and
artificial lighting is just as important. Lighting is personal - some people
like tons of light and others prefer to work in the dark. Make sure that you
have some control over light variations and some adjustability in the
different areas of the space (dimmers on lamps, curtains on windows, etc.)

2\. A large table with plenty of seating - great for group projects, team
lunches, company meetings, etc.

3\. Comfortable seating - almost all companies skimp on seating. Considering a
lot of people spend 10+ hours sitting down each day, $10 folding chairs are a
joke. Quality seating doesn't have to be expensive, just comfy. Maybe provide
each employee with $100-500 to choose his or her own chair. Great deals can be
found at Ikea, Costco, or Craigslist.

4\. Privacy - This doesn't necessarily mean individual offices or huge
cubicles. Very few people want someone looking over their shoulder or
eavesdropping on private conversations. Have enough space and spread people
out so that they're not working on top of one another if at all possible.

5\. Fun - It's different for every office, but fun stuff is important. A game
room, a stocked fridge, a beer pong table, a TV, a gaming system, some board
games, a pinball machine, a nap room, etc. Every company does it differently,
but it's nice to have something that people can bond over and can provide a
few minutes away from work.

6\. Location - The location is important because if your employees have to
commute two hours to get to your super awesome office, they’re still not going
to be happy. Pick a location that provides an easy commute for as many people
as possible and if the budget allows, choose a nice area. Walkability to
restaurants and coffee shoppes is always good.

------
thesteg
A lake, forrest and 25 kms road. Perfect for lots sports to clear your head.

Free drinks, fruits and lunch. One worry less to think about.

Office doors. Silence to get something done.

------
d4nt
You can never have too many white boards round the office. Always having a
surface to draw on within reach encourages people to communicate.

------
endtime
All our walls are covered in white boards. It lends a nice, brainstormy feel.
We actually have a whole floor, and we sublet to a few other early-stage
startups (one pretty normal web startup, one small trading firm, one
consulting firm, and a couple others) so there are lots of different people
around. We also have a nice view of the Empire State Building. :)

------
nickthedart
One thing not many people have mentioned, is avoid open plan. I currently have
the misfortune to work in an open plan office and basically get far less
productive work done than when I worked in one with cubicles where you at
least could get some work done without being distracted by other people (I'm
not saying that cube farms are ideal either .... )

------
eru
Definitely include a napping area. It can mean the difference between a wasted
afternoon and a productive one.

------
thibaut_barrere
I like the Nord Stage 88 that is sitting under the windows. It's a great
productivity and well-being enhancer!

------
jseliger
White boards are excellent. So is an espresso machine and/or Chemex.

As others have also said, nice chairs and monitors are really, really cheap
relative to the cost of employees and office space. Get Aerons or Embodies
(I'm now using an Embody), which go for about $900 and $1200, respectively.
Read this:
[http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/FieldGuidetoDeveloper...](http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/FieldGuidetoDevelopers.html)
. Note this excerpt, which is long but posted for good reason:

 _Let me, for a moment, talk about the famous Aeron chair, made by Herman
Miller. They cost about $900. This is about $800 more than a cheap office
chair from OfficeDepot or Staples.

They are much more comfortable than cheap chairs. If you get the right size
and adjust it properly, most people can sit in them all day long without
feeling uncomfortable. The back and seat are made out of a kind of mesh that
lets air flow so you don’t get sweaty. The ergonomics, especially of the newer
models with lumbar support, are excellent.

They last longer than cheap chairs. We’ve been in business for six years and
every Aeron is literally in mint condition: I challenge anyone to see the
difference between the chairs we bought in 2000 and the chairs we bought three
months ago. They easily last for ten years. The cheap chairs literally start
falling apart after a matter of months. You’ll need at least four $100 chairs
to last as long as an Aeron.

So the bottom line is that an Aeron only really costs $500 more over ten
years, or $50 a year. One dollar per week per programmer.

A nice roll of toilet paper runs about a buck. Your programmers are probably
using about one roll a week, each.

So upgrading them to an Aeron chair literally costs the same amount as you’re
spending on their toilet paper, and I assure you that if you tried to bring up
toilet paper in the budget committee you would be sternly told not to mess
around, there were important things to discuss.

The Aeron chair has, sadly, been tarnished with a reputation of being
extravagant, especially for startups. It somehow came to stand for the symbol
of all the VC money that was wasted in the dotcom boom, which is a shame,
because it’s not very expensive when you consider how long it lasts; indeed
when you think of the eight hours a day you spend sitting in it, even the top
of the line model, with the lumbar support and the friggin’ tailfins is so
dang cheap you practically make money by buying them._

If you don't need standing desks, get Maxxon Series 1000 desks:
<http://www.maxonfurniture.com/products/series1000.aspx>. They're very
durable, sturdy, and don't wiggle. Get Humanscale keyboard trays and dual 24"
monitors.

All this stuff will together cost about $3k - $4K per person. But it will last
a very long time and make for a substantially better experience, which will a)
make it easier to recruit and retain good people and b) make those people like
working for you better. In addition, the people you're hiring will probably
make _at least_ 30K / year, probably more, and that's not counting benefits
and office space. As a percentage of the cost of an employee, the stuff is
actually pretty small, but it's visible, so a lot of people think they should
skimp on it. You know who doesn't? Google, Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, and so
forth, because they've realized it's possible to penny-wise and pound-foolish.

Don't get caught up in the stuff -- you don't _need_ the stuff to succeed, and
neither does any startup. But if you're thinking about it, do it right.

My family's consulting business operates out of a house, and we use the
equipment described here: [http://blog.seliger.com/2008/06/15/tools-of-the-
trade%E2%80%...](http://blog.seliger.com/2008/06/15/tools-of-the-
trade%E2%80%94what-a-grant-writer-should-have) , and I usually work at a desk
at my place: <http://jseliger.com/2010/05/02/writing-space-2010> (picture
taken via HN request, too!).

~~~
garply
I'd love to hear PG chime in about the chairs. He's been negative on them in
an article or two. I think I agree with Joel here. I'm a frugal bootstrapper -
I always turn off the heat before I leave my apartment. But cheap chairs can
be bad for your back in the long-run. Long-term back problems are a pretty bad
trade-off for a thousand bucks. And from looking at the market, it seems like
a bit of an either/or scenario: you either get something super cheap, which is
bad for your back, you get something mid-range, which falls apart quickly
(what Joel was talking about), or you go with something expensive, which lasts
for a long time. Either you go all out, or you get a bad solution. I think the
pricey option is a pretty sane purchase here.

~~~
jseliger
One other observation: if you don't have the money to buy new, buy used.
There's a place called Anderson's Office Liquidators in Tucson that sells
Aerons for $500. Aerons last a really long time -- which can be useful in the
resale market.

I think you have to be "a frugal bootstrapper," but there's a key difference
between "frugal" and "stingy" or "foolish." Good chairs are an obvious place
where that difference plays out.

~~~
flipper
Two years ago my employer threw out the 12-month old decent chairs my IT
department bought for ourselves, and replaced them with spectacularly
uncomfortable new cheap ones.

So I bought a 6-year old Aeron on eBay for my own use at work and have been
very happy with it. Apart from a couple of small scratches on the feet it is
still like new today. As an investment in my own comfort at work it has
already paid for itself.

------
fireismyflag
Private movie theater / coffee house / fun environment

At the end it's about finding the balance point between the culture you want
to develop, and how much you can afford to spend on your workers and still be
profitable.

------
sday
-Possibility for Quiet without headphones, we share offices. -Table converts to standing. Good for easing the stress. -Coffee, Snacks, Fruits are useful. -View with nice Green Trees outside.

------
jim_h
Fresh fruits every morning. Nice view outside the windows. Close to subway
trains so I can get lunch from anywhere.

------
callmeed
Good: whiteboard, open, natural light, proximity to great food and coffee

Bad: across the street from bus stop and court house

~~~
alirov
This just about sums up my office and what everyone likes about it. Snacks and
coffee and a fridge filled with beverages is a huge plus that everyone seems
to like. And definitely lots of natural light.

And to add to the bad, how about being next to a military airport with jets
flying past all day (yes, I speak from experience).

------
revertts
Keyboard trays. You can't beat a good keyboard tray.

------
orta
access 24/7, big shop next door, casino across the road, best bar in town 5
minutes walk, a hacker atmosphere

------
zackola
+1 for natural light.

------
sgoel
free food. every.day.

------
mkramlich
What I love most about my office is that it is mine. Meaning I rent it
directly. Not provided by an employer. Since it's mine I have a lot of freedom
as to what to put in it, what activities occur in it, and when to go there and
how long to stay. No more corporate bullshit or bureaucracy. The commute time
is 10 minutes. If the weather is bad or I just don't feel like going there, I
don't. I have a door I can close and lock, with windows and blinds closed.
It's quiet. I can go many hours without interruptions or watercooler chitchat
and get zero drive-by management. My utilities are free. I have a huge LEGO
TIE Fighter in it. A comfy leather chair and footrest I can veg or take naps
in, as needed. Lots of table space and potential whiteboard space. Since it's
not tied to a single external business I can use it for multiple different
projects or businesses, as desired, or even personal projects not officially
related to "work". In fact it allows me to blur the lines between work and
non-work as much as I want. Well, within reasonable limits. It ain't perfect
but it's closer to it than anything I've had previously.

------
haploid
This is going to sound strange to those of us who lived through the dot com
boom of the late 1990s: Aeron Chairs.

Yes, they're expensive. Yes, they are emblematic of startup excess. But the
productivity improvements from having your entire workforce far more
comfortable than they would be in 99$ Office Depot chairs will likely astound
you.

Also, they don't depreciate much. And your ass/back will thank you.

~~~
lem72
I am all for this. In our office, we have horrible Plastic Ikea chairs. When
we ask to upgrade our Co Founders seem to think it is no big deal, but the
amount of adjusting, back pain, neck pain and unenjoyable work really adds up.

I would take nice chairs over any other perk.

~~~
eru
Or get a standing desk.

