
What we need from Apple to make standalone Apple Watch podcast apps - qzervaas
https://marco.org/2017/09/24/what-watch-podcast-apps-need
======
MBCook
A little over a week ago I found out that watchOS 4 would show you the now
playing screen by default when listening to something and couldn’t wait to
install it.

It’s fantastic to be able to easily look at my watch to change the volume or
skip track or go forward or backward in a podcast.

But then Overcast came up. And just like Marco said I ended up on installing
it on my watch because I lost the ability to change the volume. The now
playing widget still let me change the volume and I can use the little buttons
to skip forward and backward 30 seconds.

But now I can’t choose which podcast I’m listening to from the watch. I can’t
put the app on my watch because it actively brakes a useful feature.

All because Apple won’t provide a simple API the people have been asking for
for two years now? It’s sort of made sense in the original watchOS I guess but
once we got the ability to run apps on the watch and access the digital crown
seems like an obvious step that volume control should’ve been provided.

Please, Apple?

~~~
mike-cardwell
We keep hitting these barriers with proprietary software and locked down
hardware. Hopefully the guys behind
[https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/](https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/) will be a
massive success and then turn around and do a smart-watch version.

~~~
bpicolo
Seems almost impossible for them to have success on the consumer market, as
those just aren't the things your typical consumer thinks about.

Consumers like having e.g. reliable Maps, which is very difficult for anybody
not-BigCo because they're the ones with data to do it.

Apple, Google have thousands of people and billions of dollars invested in
building consumer experience for their mobile phones/apps. Getting even a tiny
fraction of that market as a startup would require something wholly original.
Privacy-focused <x> isn't that thing. (See: email, past privacy-OS-for-desktop
attempts).

Not to mention, Apple is doing a half decent job with the privacy angle, too.

------
cbhl
The entire time I was reading this piece, I couldn't help but think, "I
wouldn't be surprised if Apple explicitly omitted that feature from the API to
keep battery life reasonable on the Apple Watch."

Syncing progress for a podcast once every minute is excessive. Rather than
polling, the app should update progress on the boundary transition (when
starting the podcast app, when playback pauses, when bluetooth headphones
disconnect, just before and after going to next/previous podcast).

~~~
simplyluke
Agreed on battery but it raises a question of UX vs battery life. I'd rather
have a very useful watch for 6 hours than a mediocre one for 18 (less on the
newer LTE models apparently). Audio is in many ways what should be the killer
app for the watch. The watch should make it so I can go on a run and leave my
phone at home, but omitting features like this make it a lot more difficult to
fill that role.

The lifetime of a $350+++ Fitbit/notification screen is limited. Apple needs
to improve the software side quickly - the hardware has come a long way from
the first version.

Things like omitting error handling are just poor software design though.

~~~
bosie
Genuine question but what would you do after the battery of your watch is dead
at 1pm?

~~~
scarface74
It depends on the use case. If I just wanted a watch to use when I’m running
or at the gym so I could leave my phone at home, I would give up battery life
for functionality. That would also limit the market for the watch.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
Sounds more like you want a mini mp3 player than a smart-watch.

~~~
scarface74
A mini MP3 player doesn’t have a GPS to track my running speed or heart rate
in real time or allow me to leave my phone in the car and still get calls and
messages like the Series 3.

Apple Music will be a game changer for many people on the Apple Watch, but I
don’t listen to music that often. No native support for podcasts is a deal
breaker for me.

Currently, if I were still an outdoor runner, I would get the cheapest Apple
Watch I could to display GPS info and control audio playback and I would have
an iPhone SE - the smallest phone possible - in an arm band. My 6s isn’t
unwieldy with an armband but I use an iPad with cellular when I need a usable
screen.

------
DavidAdams
This article is a great example of how the Apple Watch has failed to reach its
potential almost entirely because of indifferent software product design on
Apple's part. I'm sure that ever Watch owner and developer can come up with a
few other examples of things that the apple watch ought to be able to do but
can't. When I bought my Apple Watch, I had assumed that I'd be able to use it
to view and control the podcasts I'm listening to on my attached iPhone, which
is even more fundamental than what's described in this blog post. But nope,
not in any meaningful or useful way.

That being said, the Apple watch is still pretty good at pretty much one
thing: when my phone beeps with a notification from one of many sources (SMS,
eBay, Invision Trello, Messenger, etc) I need only glance at my watch. It's
also a decent exercise tracker.

But it could be so much more. Sadly, I think Apple has probably missed it's
best chance to recruit top developers, so it's likely it will be relegated to
fancy text reader and step counter forever.

~~~
atomical
Average podcast is over 30 minutes, right? That means you would need to pull
out your phone every 30 minutes to select the next podcast. Is that a big deal
to you?

~~~
jonknee
The literal first sentence of the post:

> The Apple Watch desperately needs standalone podcast playback, especially
> with the LTE-equipped Series 3, which was designed specifically for
> exercising without an iPhone.

So yes, pulling out the phone that you don't have with you is a deal breaker.

~~~
atomical
Do people really want to exercise without their phone? It seems like a non-
starter for the folks that go to a gym. I run with a watch and Bragi Dash. The
onboard storage of the Dash works fine for me, but most people end up using
the bluetooth because they want their phone available for browsing the
internet all the time anyway.

~~~
jakobegger
Being able to go for a run without taking my giant phone with me would be the
only reason that I would buy a watch in the first place.

It looks like Apple Watch isn’t there yet. Maybe an Android watch is?

~~~
drewg123
Nope. See my downvoted comment below, begging for somebody to make a podcast
player for Android Wear.

Google Play Music is (AFAIK) the only media player that works on AW. However,
you're unable to sync podcasts to a watch, only music (even though podcasts
via GPM work on the phone). So over the last 1.5 years with 2 AW watches
(Moto360 sport, Polar M600) across 2 major Wear releases, I've had to listen
to music on my runs, rather than the podcasts I'd have preferred. And I take
my phone on walks / hikes to listen to podcasts, when I'd prefer to leave it
home.

If the apple watch supported podcasts, I'd probably switch.

------
eddieroger
I don't think Apple needs to be told where their APIs are lacking for
podcasting, as evident through the absence of standalone playback in their own
Podcasts app, let alone an app at all. Either Apple can't figure out how to
take the podcast experience and make it a good one on the Watch, or more
likely (I think), the way it would need to work would make the Watch
experience bad. I imagine they've got the "just play" experience for music
heavily optimized, but the callbacks Marco mentions probably do terrible
things to the Watch's battery and processor. Either way, this is a known
desired thing, and if it could be done in a reasonable way, I'm sure they
would have - they did put the 'pod' in podcast, after all.

~~~
madeofpalk
> as evident through the absence of standalone playback in their own Podcasts
> app, let alone an app at all

This is moot. If Apple wanted were to put their podcast app on Apple Watch
they would just use internal APIs that third parties can't use, like the
default music app.

~~~
ascagnel_
They actually had a podcasts app for the Watch early on, and removed it
without giving a reason why.

------
synicalx
I liked this piece right off the bat, not because the content is relevant to
me but because it took responsibility and initiative, unlike many similar such
articles I see on here.

The key is in the title "What we need from Apple TO MAKE standalone Apple
Watch podcast apps", rather than "Why Apple needs to make a standalone Watch
podcast app".

~~~
askafriend
This is an excellent point and I completely agree. I loved the way the Marco
took initiative to propose actual viable technical solutions rather than just
vague complaining like so many articles do.

------
kwerk
I’ve considered setting up a cron job to change select podcasts in iTunes to
music so they sync with the watch. No position sync or fast forward but enough
for a run.

Having spent 24 hours with the cellular watch and taken two runs without the
iPhone, this is now a near necessity.

~~~
pragone
That would be awesome if you wanted to share it!

~~~
kwerk
I've got it working with a node script to change the id3 tag, and re-add to
itunes, that triggers a smart playlist called "Watch Podcasts" in the Music
section.

Then the node script triggers AppleScript to Update iCloud Library.

The "Watch Podcasts" smart playlist is added in iPhone Watch app under Music.

Now when the watch is charging any of those podcasts are synced.

Don't have a clean way to share (and selecting podcasts to transfer is manual
on the Mac).

If there's interest I may expand on utility and share

~~~
RobSim
Just wanted to throw another name down for interest in this script! Would be
an awesome feature

~~~
kwerk
Here it is:

[https://github.com/kylewill/apple-watch-podcast-
sync](https://github.com/kylewill/apple-watch-podcast-sync)

I really did hack it together before a run and am very embarrassed by the
code. pull requests welcome :)

------
joshfarrant
This is the single thing preventing me from buying an Apple Watch. I use
Overcast to listen to podcasts on iOS and usually listen while running. As
soon as Apple make these APIs available and Marco is able to create a watch
app I'll be straight down the Apple Store to give Apple my £429.

~~~
enraged_camel
For me it's the battery. Having to charge a watch every 24-48 hours is a
complete non-starter, regardless of its functionality. I don't want to carry
more cables or charging stations with me wherever I go. It's the single-most
point of stress, especially when I travel.

If the battery lasted 7-10 days, it would be _perfect_. That's about how long
my business trips take, so I could charge it to full beforehand and not worry
about it at all during the trip.

~~~
macintux
You won't see a week-long battery life on the Watch for many years, but you
will see a single charging pad for Watch + iPhone + AirPods next year. Seems
like a reasonable compromise for travelers.

~~~
ciaranm
I've been using a plug like this ( [https://www.amazon.co.uk/Charger-
Syncwire-4-Port-Interchange...](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Charger-
Syncwire-4-Port-Interchangeable-Adaptor-
White/dp/B011KPRE1G/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1506355234&sr=8-7&keywords=usb+plug)
)for my phone/watch/headphone/kindle charging for years. It's very handy -
especially when travelling.

------
Analemma_
The Apple Watch might be selling well, but it's definitely not getting the
kind of 3rd-party app support Apple probably wanted to see (me and everyone I
know who has one likes it, but only uses notifications and fitness tracking).

With that in mind, it's crazy to me that Apple isn't beating down Marco's door
to give him his requests. In the limited time that standalone Watch playback
was in Overcast, even in its crappy implementation I used the hell out of it.
Audio is one of the few home-run use cases for Watch apps, whereas in most
other cases it's so much simpler and easier to just use your phone. Why wasn't
that the first API implemented and the one polished to a shine? I hope they're
not trying to make Apple Music the only available option.

~~~
djrogers
> even in its crappy implementation I used the hell out of it.

Then based on Marco's own stats, you were one of about 0.1% of users...

That said, now that the watch is free* from the tether of my iPhone, I'd love
to listen to podcasts on it on a run while leaving my phone behind.

[1] [https://marco.org/2017/08/10/removed-send-to-
watch](https://marco.org/2017/08/10/removed-send-to-watch) [2] relatively

------
uptown
Ironic that progress sync is listed as the deal-breaker. That's the one thing
which doesn't seem to work properly between my laptop and my iPhone with
Apple's Podcasts app and iTunes on the desktop.

------
_ZeD_
offtopic, but on the page there is a note with:

    
    
        There’s one elaborate exception that we discussed 
        in Under The Radar #98: workout apps, which are
        allowed to run in the background and play audio.
        So this all becomes possible if you combine a
        standalone podcast player with a workout app, and
        only allow podcast playback while a workout is
        active that was started from that app.
        But this forces the combination of two completely
        different app types, and users would find the
        workout-during-playback requirement confusing,
        inexplicable, and limiting.
    
        Requiring podcast apps to also be workout apps is a
        user- and developer-hostile hack that Apple
        probably doesn’t intend.
    
    
    

whaaat? what kind of OS has this business rules so embedded?

------
izzard
Somewhat off topic but somewhat related, I have tried a whole bunch of
different smart watches and activity trackers, and my current favorite is made
by Skagen.

Specifically, the "Signatur Connected Leather Hybrid Smartwatch". It looks
like an analog watch, but it has smart watch functions and connects to your
phone with bluetooth.

Favorite things about it: It has an analog subdial that shows progress towards
your daily step goal. It has three 'real' analog buttons that you can connect
to just about any function on your phone. I have one button mapped to
start/stop any music that is playing. Another button moves the hour and minute
hands to point to the date. The third button sets off the ringer on my phone.

And the battery is a normal watch battery, which should last between 6 months
and a year. Check it out, I think it hits the right balance between minimal
analog watch and smart functions.

------
brlewis
Why not just listen to the podcast only on the watch, since you always have it
with you? What's the use case for switching to some other device once the
podcast is on your watch?

~~~
yoz-y
When you have your phone with you it is still a better device for podcasts:

\- You have access to show notes and have a full fledged browser to follow the
links \- You have way more battery life. I listen to about 4 hours of audio
content during a day, I suppose I'd have to recharge the watch more often \-
Exploration of episodes and general library management is better on a bigger
screen

------
ksec
My guess is that Apple takes battery life over everything else. You can tell
that Apple has kept a consistent Talk Time/ 4G usage time over the years with
iPhone. And some of these consideration means Podcast on Apple watch a little
harder to get right.

And I am wondering, how much would people paid for longer battery life on
Apple watch? We do have the tech, solid state battery, it is simply too
expensive if it is used in the size of smartphone, because solid state battery
prices scale exponentially with size. But what about Smart watches?

Are user willing to paid extra $200 for LTE + Solid State Battery?

~~~
detaro
I thought these were still prototype-stage? Do you maybe have I link where I
can learn more?

------
drewg123
Can somebody please, please, please make a podcast app for Android Wear? One
that I can use without my phone, so I can go for a run/hike/walk with just my
watch and headphones?

Even Google Play Music doesn't sync podcasts to wear. Sigh.

I periodically search the play store for AW enabled podcast apps, but the best
I've found are apps that put playback controls for the phone on the watchface.
Sigh.

------
jjtheblunt
Who is "we"?

------
whipoodle
This thing still ain't fully baked.

------
0xbear
Do people still listen to podcasts? I lasted 3 months, and then moved to
Audible.

~~~
dreamcompiler
I don't listen to them nearly as much as I used to, mostly because podcasts
are so ad-laden these days. Listening to a two-minute ad for Ziprecruiter for
every 7 minutes of content gets old fast.

~~~
icebraining
There are still a bunch of great podcasts with little or no ads. Mike Duncan's
"History of Rome" and "Revolutions" (single ad at the start), Omega Tau (no
ads), Econtalk (no ads), and Hardcore History (which has two ads, IIRC, but
the episodes last literally hours).

I think the difference is mostly between shows made by companies, or by
individuals and non-profits. Gotta pay those investors.

~~~
thanatropism
What?

Both Joe Rogan (individual) and NPR (nonprofit) are ad-laden as...

~~~
icebraining
Fair enough about NPR, I sometimes forget they are non-profit.

As for Joe Rogan, I can't say I've heard his show. I was relating merely my
personal experience.

