
Trump Nears Victory - nbmh
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/08/us/politics/election-live.html?pagewanted=all
======
thewarrior
It is possible to view this as an isolated event or a trend. Coming on the
heels of BREXIT this is a trend.

The attempts at building an interconnected globalised world are beginning to
fail. A bunch of elites decided to create their own trans-national utopia
unchecked by borders and dismissed all criticism as racist or bigoted. The
globalisation project has been rejected by a majority of the population.
Whether it is for economic reasons or just plain bigotry is something for the
sociologists to study and not something I can pontificate on.

Also people seem to care a LOT about immigration and preserving their culture.
Instead of patronising these people it's time we tried to understand their
concerns and try to assuage them.

There is no genuine leftist alternative. It's a choice between center-right
"left" that's sold out to the establishment and the far right.Economists need
to stop acting like priests in the medieval ages who justified the existing
order . The rural voter who lost his job doesn't care about the theory of
comparitive advantage.

If this trend holds this will soon take hold in France and other European
nations. This is a return to the world of the 1920s. Not gloom and doom but a
much more unstable global order with every country for itself. Not what we
need when we face planet scale threats like global warming.

Get out of your bubble. Hang out more on subreddits you don't agree with.

The divide is bridged one person at a time.

Life goes on.

EDIT: Its a shame they killed this thread.

~~~
gonvaled
> A bunch of elites decided to create their own trans-national utopia
> unchecked by borders and dismissed all criticism as racist or bigoted. The
> globalisation project has been rejected by a majority of the population.

The globalisation project is a consequence of:

1\. People move: they have legs.

2\. Technology has made moving easier and faster.

3\. Technology has made keeping in touch in a decentralized network easier.

So it is not the elites, it is technology. You can try to stop it, by force,
but you will not succeed and you will create lots of suffering.

~~~
angersock
Which of the free trade agreements and IP and copyright rulings have hurt the
masses, and which have helped? Which economic policies of globalization are
helping Ireland, Portugal, Italy, and Greece?

The folks passing those agreements are the "elites" by any stretch of the
term.

~~~
gonvaled
The trade agreements are not to blame: they have increased trade, which should
be good for everybody.

The opposing force, making globalization unfair for the masses, is unchecked
capitalism, which has increased inequality by allowing financial elites to
concentrate capital.

Trump, May et al are not goint to put any fight against inequality, so you
will be surprised how little borders are going to help the poor.

------
barsonme
I'll echo a comment I made on Facebook:

    
    
        I think Mark Zuckerberg's comments show both ways we can react to this election. You've got to decide:
        will you be constructive or destructive?
    
        "We can't create a culture that says it cares about diversity and then excludes almost half the country
        because they back a political candidate ... There are many reasons a person might support Trump that do not
        involve racism, sexism, xenophobia ..."
    

I didn't vote for either candidate. So I'm not advocating either way. But I
think America really, really needs to decide how it wants to take this and how
it wants to move forward. _We_ , by our actions and state of mind, choose
whether this is a good or bad thing. Take control. Be constructive. Do good.

~~~
heartbreak
America decided it wants to move forward with the candidate it just elected
for President. I may not agree with the candidate, but that's the decision
that was made. That's how America decided to move forward.

Perhaps you meant that the left needs to decide how it will move forward given
this result.

~~~
barsonme
The right too. I have many friends who've taken to gloating over this. That
won't help this divide, only widen it.

If the right can't see past itself to be graceful in victory and try to
understand the left's anxiety and worries it'll only make things worse.

------
siculars
If you are a blue collar worker in the rust belt who lost his or her job
because your factory moved to Mexico or China, there was no way you were
voting for Clinton. And here we are.

The echo chamber of CNN, MSNBC, NYT, et al., is deafening. If you've been
watching these outlets you know that they have been calling the election for
Clinton for more than six months. The arrogance is just stunning. And here we
are.

Now let's talk about the DNC. These folks are so crooked they literally
colluded to steal the nomination from Sanders. How can that possibly sit well
with anyone? Frankly, Bernie would have won vs. Trump. And here we are.

And for these reasons and a host of others, here we are.

~~~
codecamper
And now your blue collar can see his entire retirement check vanish in one day
of market trading.

~~~
AlexandrB
Doesn't matter to him because:

A. He probably has no retirement savings.

B. The fat-cat on Wall Street that cost him his job probably lost _a lot_
more.

------
broodbucket
Really sad to see so many members of the technical community act like brats on
social media over the result. Whatever happened to respecting the viewpoints
of others? Whatever happened to being humble in victory and respectful in
defeat?

Democracy means you don't always get what you want. Be excellent to each
other, whether you voted for Trump, Clinton, a third party candidate, or
nobody. It's tragic seeing people isolate themselves into echo chambers of
ideological refuge.

~~~
mtgx
What happened to Peter Thiel in the media and probably in more private circles
was really shameful. Zuckerberg's counter-argument to that is probably the one
time in the past few years when I agreed with him on something.

[https://s13.postimg.org/ohe1sci6f/mmexport1476831885441.jpg](https://s13.postimg.org/ohe1sci6f/mmexport1476831885441.jpg)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12739582](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12739582)

------
WaxProlix
Honestly it's impressive -- how do you lose to Donald Trump? Failed
businessman and mediocre reality TV star. You've gotta be pretty good at what
you do to fail over this guy.

~~~
hellodevnull
I understand that this place is 99% liberal and that you went as far as to
petition to kick Peter Thiel out because of his trump support, but please
realize most Americans agree with trump. That's how you lose to him. Make
jokes all you want, we won.

~~~
untog
> most Americans agree with trump

This is the problem, though - there's no data that agrees with you. Nor is
there any that disagrees with you. Because we've seen today that all the
polling data was a load of complete nonsense.

It _could_ be that Trump won because most Americans agree with him. The
popular vote totals would suggest this is not the case. Rather, a majority of
Americans in swing states either agree with Trump enough, or disagree with
Clinton enough, to vote they way they did. It's going to take a long time to
get to the bottom of which combination of those factors is what.

------
blondie9x
If Clinton would have been a little tougher on immigration it wouldn't have
even been close. That was one issue Trump supporters cared about most. If she
spoke a little tougher on that she would have won.

~~~
codeonfire
The sad thing for Trump supporters is Trump wants visa slaves and fruit
pickers just as bad as liberal elites. I predict no changes on immigration
policy over the next few years.

------
symlinkk
lol at all the people here pretending like they saw this coming. this is a
surprise for everyone. the NYT and every other major news outlet had Clinton
winning with a chance of over 80%. the silent majority won.

------
gdilla
One can understand distaste for washington, globalization, politicians and
middle america wishing for manufacturing jobs to come back, but to think Trump
will fix any of those things is beyond comprehension.

------
unixhero
Well well Trump! I am going to go a head and grab some popcorn.

~~~
siculars
This. Buckle up, it's gonna be interesting if nothing else.

------
codecamper
flagged for what? this is the most f'ing important thing EVER.

SCREW THE TRUMP GOVERNMENT. I"M DOING EVERYTHING IN BITCOIN.

~~~
inimino
Political posts are usually flagged for the tendency to attract highly
emotional, low-content comments.

~~~
codecamper
ok buddy. flag on.

------
mozumder
Definitely encrypt all your communications. The Republicans are hardcore about
violating any privacy rights (or any Bill of Rights) that they can, and will
make sure to expand the NSA to spy on the US citizens communications. (it's
currently illegal for the NSA to spy on US citizens comms..)

~~~
inimino
How's the Democrats' record in this area?

~~~
mozumder
Under Obama, the Snowden leaks reveal that there are filters that remove
communications from US citizens from NSA mass collection, to comply with law.
Remember that this was a classified program that was leaked, so they were
still being compliant when no one was looking.

Trump obviously would remove those filters.

------
dudul
I guess all these medium posts from Silicon Valley techies didn't convince
enough people...

~~~
mtgx
People who voted for Trump saw right through them and through all the "we're
just neutral and just trying to get people to vote" attempts.

I mean, obviously people should go to vote and should be encouraged to vote.
It's just that it was pretty much an open secret that the reason all of these
tech companies and Silicon Valley people were suddenly "so involved" in
getting people to vote, is because they thought most of the people they'd
reach would vote for Clinton. And it's another open secret that most of
Silicon Valley companies wanted Clinton to win.

I, for one, would've welcomed attempts to fix the _real_ democracy issues in
the U.S. (which are far bigger than just low voter turnouts), and attempts to
fix the real problems that got half of the country to vote for Trump.

Hint: it's not just because of racism, but also because people are sick and
tired of polished-up, corrupt politicians. Trump may be a very poor, or one of
the worst possible alternatives to that, but at least he was an alternative.

These people really don't get it why Trump and Sanders saw such a rise in
popularity. Tuesday's Reuters poll shows black and white why. I'll just copy
the results here:

 _\- 75 percent agree that "America needs a strong leader to take the country
back from the rich and powerful."

\- 72 percent agree "the American economy is rigged to advantage the rich and
powerful."

\- 68 percent agree that "traditional parties and politicians don’t care about
people like me."

\- 76 percent believe "the mainstream media is more interested in making money
than telling the truth."

\- 57 percent feel that "more and more, I don't identify with what America has
become."

\- 54 percent feel "it is increasingly hard for someone like me to get ahead
in America."_

[http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-poll-mood-
idU...](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-poll-mood-
idUSKBN1332NC?il=0)

And if you're not convinced, or you still don't quite get it, listen to
Michael Moore and Jimmy Dore explain it in more colorful terms:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOcstHhtL4Y&feature=youtu.be...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOcstHhtL4Y&feature=youtu.be&t=1m38s)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZNwvXZbAfg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZNwvXZbAfg)

~~~
AlexandrB
This is exactly right. And to add, this is the result of pretending income
inequality is not a big deal. It's a big deal because it results in a pissed-
off population looking to change things up.

The rising tide better _actually_ lift all boats.

~~~
serge2k
so they voted for a guy who's plan is to fuck over the middle class.

Genius.

~~~
AlexandrB
They voted for a guy who scares the political class and Wall St.

I'm pretty sure the "rust-belt" middle class doesn't see how their situation
could get any worse. They might be right.

~~~
serge2k
Do they not remember 8 years ago?

------
robg
One upside: Peter Thiel on the Supreme Court is a sorely needed perspective on
so many levels. Every current justice went to the same groupthink law schools
and never worked outside the system.

~~~
serge2k
Holy shit that sounds awful.

The man doesn't believe in democracy and thinks the country went wrong when
women got the vote.

------
djsumdog
The people who were funding Trump/Hillary were funding them equally. Is
doesn't matter who won, they banks, oil companies and large media
conglomerates still control the country like they have for the past several
decades.

I see in our future ... the exact same presidency. More US led wars. More
predator drones. More CIA guns and money to fund revolutions that we then
fight with out predator drones. Just remember the election is like Whose Line
is it Anyway, the points are all made up and none of it matters.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tu32CCA_Ig](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tu32CCA_Ig)

~~~
gozur88
>The people who were funding Trump/Hillary were funding them equally. Is
doesn't matter who won, they banks, oil companies and large media
conglomerates still control the country like they have for the past several
decades.

Yep. That's what makes it so hard for third party candidates. The donors fund
both sides so they don't get left out in the cold if their guy loses. They
have to believe you'll have a chance to win to fund you, and if they don't it
becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

~~~
djsumdog
eh..that has less to do with funding and more to do with the First Past the
Post system. Look at Australia's order of preference with instant run-off (you
literally can't throw your vote away; plus voting is mandatory. There's a fine
if you don't at least pretend to cast a valid ballot) or New Zealand's MMP.
Both are a lot better at representing the public in parliament.

The US system was actively designed to not be democratic. That's why we have
an electoral college; the vote was (and still is) the peasants suggestion box.

~~~
gozur88
I agree instant runoff would be better.

But the idea the US system wasn't designed to be democratic is a pretty gross
exaggeration. You can't win without votes from "the peasants" no matter how
much you spend to convince them. Otherwise Jeb Bush would be president-elect
today.

------
pmoriarty
Now the nightmare begins.

------
flojito
enjoy your vote :-(

~~~
toomuchtodo
We lost months ago, when the DNC rammed Clinton through over Sanders.

EDIT: You simply cannot say it was the peoples' fault for not voting for her
(pick someone electable next time); she had her choice between picking between
what was best for her and what was best for the country, and we all lost
because she was selfish.

I hope Sanders supporters step up and begin purging DNC incumbents in down
ballot races. It is the only way forward.

EDIT 2: Sanders vs Trump polling:
[http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/ge...](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-5565.html)

[http://www.270towin.com/maps/sanders-trump-electoral-
map](http://www.270towin.com/maps/sanders-trump-electoral-map)

[http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-
meter/statements/2016/mar/...](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-
meter/statements/2016/mar/08/bernie-s/bernie-sanders-says-he-consistently-
beats-donald-t/)

And regardless how useless polling appears to be, its _impossible_ to say that
Sanders was a less liked candidate than either Clinton or Trump.

~~~
gozur88
I'm not sure Sanders ever had a chance of winning the general election. He's
pretty far to the left of the American center.

~~~
AlexandrB
Counterpoint: Trump won the general election.

This was never about left vs. right but about overturning the status quo.

~~~
gozur88
It would have been about left vs. right if Sanders had been the nominee, since
neither of them was a status quo candidate. Sanders has ardent supporters, but
not very many of them.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Both Wisconsin and Michigan went for Sanders in the primary, both very
unexpectedly, and then went heavily towards Trump in the general. Sanders
would've easily won.

~~~
gozur88
In Wisconsin, maybe. Easily won the general? I'd bet money against that. I
think he'd be crushed.

------
erikbye
Won my bet (it was not an endorsement).

