
Following Sony, Samsung has stopped sales of its laptops in Europe - benologist
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/laptop/3573470/samsung-exits-laptop-market-including-chromebooks/
======
ekianjo
> "It's common knowledge that the PC market is in decline."

Mmm, not so much. Apart from what you hear from tablet makers. It's stagnant,
but it's not in sharp decline.

Source: 2Q13 shipments : 75,700,902 VS 2Q14 shipments : 75,763,725

Yeah, it's "common knowledge" as they say, if you don't bother checking
numbers.

[https://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/2793921](https://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/2793921)

~~~
parag_c_mehta
The advent of SSD has been redefining moment in PC history. Earlier when
friends or relatives complained about slow PC, solution offered was add more
"RAM" which was not possible as "RAM" always kept evolving with tie up to
motherboards.

But now my first suggestion for them is to go for SSD, which instantly fixes
their old "slow" PCs. Thus eliminating the need to buy a new PC/laptop.

~~~
ekianjo
Very true. SSD make a huge difference no matter your hardware, and certainly
makes any old system look fresh as new.

------
hpaavola
If you are looking for a Linux compatible laptop that is somewhat similar to
MacBook Air, look for Asus Zenbook UX* line. Excellent display, good but not
awesome battery life, fast hardware and really good keyboard for its size.
I've bought two UX31A's, one for myself almost two years a go and one for my
dad last Christmas. Everything else works straight away with Ubuntu other than
ambient light sensor. I think there isn't any workarounds for that.

I got Lenovo X1 Carbon (2014, Touch) from work couple months ago and while it
has better CPU, bigger SSD, more RAM and better GPU than my two year old
Zenbook, it's just worse. The Zenbook lid can be opened with one hand, Lenovo
requires both hands. Lenovo has too heavy display and too light keyboard part
combined with too tight hinges, so when trying to open the lid with one hand,
the whole computer lifts up from the table.

Also, Zenbooks have normal keyboards. I hate the keyboard on X1 Carbon.
Instead of normal function keys, there's are adaptive touch keyboard thingy
that tries to figure out what kind of special buttons should be shown in there
with each program, but it just fails. And feels like... well it does not have
real buttons, so I can't feel a thing while using it.

Also, delete button is in the upper right corner in X1 Carbon. And backspace
is on the left hand side of it. And that makes no sense. Backspace is used way
more often than delete, so it should be easier to hit. And upper right corner
is easier to hit than almost upper right corner.

And Zenbooks have normal arrow keys that are not too crowded. Lenovo decided
to put page up and down right next to up arrow. When ever I accidentally hit
page up or down instead of up arrow, I feel like I'm totally lost.

And almost forgot, Zenbooks have good touch pads, X1 Carbon touch pad moves up
and down, so it's like a huge button. Really annoying when you just move your
thumb on it and accidentally press too hard, so it registers a mouse click
even tough you did not raise your finger.

So, in short Asus Zenbook UX* laptops pack awesome hardware, work with Linux
pretty much perfectly and have really good build quality.

~~~
allegory
Or just buy an older ThinkPad X201 / X220 / T410 with 1440x900 display and get
a new 9-cell battery.

The things are really cheap, have a proper keyboard, are bomb proof, every
part is replaceable for minimal cost, they are 100% supported by all operating
systems, have excellent docking support and you can just sling them in your
bag. Mine lives down the back of the sofa cushions when not in use.

I knackered the headphone port on mine from overuse. 5 mins on ebay, £7 spent,
new board installed in 5 mins with a Philips screwdriver and the service
manual.

For every day tasks, I use an i5 X201 with 8Gb of RAM and a Samsung 840 Pro
and it's no different to the stacked HP Z620 I have in the office to use. If I
need _more power_ then I use that remotely.

Totally awesome machine and I paid virtually nothing for it.

PC tech is moving so slowly now it's a better investment to buy two older
machines so you have a backup unit than one new one if you ask me.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
I just bought a second hand X240 and am really pleased with it, the only thing
it lacks for me is a backlit keyboard.

~~~
possibilistic
I've always been curious--what's the use case for the backlit keyboard?

At the surface, backlighting seems largely aesthetic to me; I have muscle
memory of my keyboard layout and do not need to reference the keys at all
while in the dark. (A huge tactile cue is the TrackPoint in the keyboard.) I
understand that there are lots of variables: not everyone uses their machine
as frequently or may not have a keyboard amenable to this.

Does anyone here feel backlit keyboards are essential? Why or why not? What is
the consensus rationales?

~~~
allegory
Anecdote. I had a 2011 MBP with backlit keyboard. Never used it once. In fact,
the machine ended up with windows on it because MacOS made me want to smash
the thing (despite being a Unix guy) and the Boot Camp drivers didn't switch
the backlight off reliably which annoyed the crap out of me.

If you're sitting in a place dark enough to need it, it's not good for you
staring at the contrast between the screen and darkness so turn the light on.

Plus I don't look at the keyboard anyway.

~~~
Fuxy
I never understood the turning the lights on bit I found bright ambient
environments hurt my eyes more when trying to concentrate looking at the
screen then dark environments.

Then again most websites I use regularly have been re-skinned to have dark
themes since white hurts my eyes regardless of the ambient environment.

~~~
allegory
Sounds like you need to see the optician. I had the same trouble and they
sorted it :)

------
scoofy
Wait... what? I'm a bit confused here.

Can someone please explain why Samsung isn't selling laptops besides the
article's dismissive "It's common knowledge that the PC market is in decline."

Is it that they are spinning off their laptop division, or is there is some
other dominant manufacturer? Why on earth are laptops not selling?

~~~
toyg
Basically, in my experience, Dell and Lenovo now rule the corporate market,
while the consumer market is now 1) smaller (since tablets and smartphones
cannibalized some of it) and 2) clearly split between Apple and "everything
else", where "everything else" runs on thin margins and is perceived as cheap
and uncool. My anecdotal datapoint is that, in the last 5 years, I haven't
seen anyone in my sector (finance / IT in the UK) using anything but Dell,
Lenovo or Apple laptops (with the very occasional Sony Vaio, which Sony
recently stopped selling).

On a larger scale, the rise of smartphones and tablets has clearly shrunk the
traditional PC market, a market that already struggled with the end of
Microsoft-led forced upgrades (that "good enough" level others mentioned;
Microsoft used to periodically redefine what "good enough" was, but their
products have substantially fossilized in the last decade). This doesn't mean
PCs and laptops will go away for good; it's just that large margins are now
elsewhere, so the industry is adapting.

~~~
tn13
Your experience is probably anecdotal. I have been using Surface Pro 3 and if
that is not cool I am not sure what else could be.

~~~
Roritharr
I'm a Surface Pro 2 User and a Software Dev and couldn't be happier. I only
have to carry 1.1kg of Hardware around to have my full Workstation with me and
when i'm in my office i've got a perfect Dockingstation. No fiddling with
cables: [https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-
xpf1/t31.0...](https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-
xpf1/t31.0-8/10562485_889313857764519_7397985476542361780_o.jpg)

~~~
showsover
How do you connect 2 screens to it? What software do you run on it? Does it
run Visual Studio well?

This looks awesome, tell us more!

~~~
Roritharr
Those are 2 older Korean Crossover 2560x1440 MDP Screens with Display Port.
Technically the Surface Pro 2 is able to connect to both of them over its one
Mini-DP Connector via DP 1.2 Daisy Chaining, but since those Monitors only
support DP 1.1. i tried connecting them over the MSI Multi-Stream-Transport
Hub, which didn't work reliably enough, the monitors weren't always recognized
instantly and it felt to fickle to work with. The solution was an older USB3
DisplayLink DisplayPort Adapter. It works much better than I expected and I
can dock and undock as often as i want without the configuration or drivers
becoming unstable which was my main concern.

Monitor TL;DR: 2x 2540x1440 Monitors, one via Mini-DP, one via USB3.

There is only one USB3 Bus on the Dockingstation for the SP2 and sadly
Microsoft has cheaped out on the Ethernet Port for the Dockingstation as its
only 100mbit. (The Dock is only Connected via one USB3 Port, one Mini-DP Port
and its Power Connector, so guess they wanted to save the usb bandwidth since
most people don't need >100mbit anyway) As i've got a 1 Gbit Line (we work
next to a server farm) at my office i didn't want to compromise on that too
much, so i've attached an USB3 Hub with included Gigabit Ethernet Port which
is hidden with all cabling under the Desk. With the USB Monitor switched off i
get about 800mbit over the card, with the USB Monitor it varies between
300mbit and 650mbit, depending on what is going on at the Monitor at the time.

Network TL;DR: External USB3 Gigabit Adapter, between 300-650mbit throughput.

We're a JS and PHP Webdevshop mostly, so I run PHPStorm on it, often alongside
Photoshop CC 2014 to review Designs. The hardware takes that beautifully, but
i can push it towards its limits when opening 2-3 animation-heavy sites in
Chrome with the debugger open. Thats the only performance painpoint that i'd
like to see wiped out when i'll buy my next Surface, i guess when they roll
out the 4th or 5th gen. I've also ran Eclipse on it for Android Development
and again, no problem there aswell, so i would guess Visual Studio would run
on it nicely aswell. Unity3D runs nicely to do quick prototypes, but its
obviously limited to the graphics capabilities of the Intel i5-4200u it runs
on, so its okay for a Game Jam, but I (obviously to me) couldn't recommend it
as a professional GameDev device. I've got the top model with 512GB SSD since
it's supposed to last me 2-4 years atleast, i'd just hope for 16GB of Ram so I
wouldn't have any regrets when opening multiple browser VMs (IE6-7-8-9 in
parallel running vms with 6-8 each getting 1gb of ram and 9 2gb makes it run
sluggish aswell), but I didn't find that in any notebook under 1.5kg so I
compromized on that with the Surface and am not disappointed.

Software TL;DR: PHPStorm & Adobe Suite run alongside beautifully, more
graphics power would be nice, but i don't really need it. If you NEED to run
>5GB RAM of VMs, this device isn't for you.

With PHPStorm in PowerSaving Mode it lasts me about 5 hours before I need to
find a plug, which is okay but I hope it to improve in the next iteration I
get.

Battery TL;DR: 5 hours.

I have an IKEA BEKANT electric standing desk[1] and the cables are all tugged
tightly under it and out of the way. On the Desk I have the Google Nexus
Wireless Charger [2] for my Nexus 5 and an Dyson Fan which i've got as an
gift, wouldn't recommend it for being so expensive while just being a regular
fan. I carry my Surface around in a small vertical messenger bag [3] which
contains beside the Surface Power cable an Jabra Speak 510 portable bluetooth
conference speaker[4], an Logitech R800 Presenter[5] and an EasyAcc Battery
Pack[6] which I can charge with the integrated USB Charger in the Surface
Poweradapter.

My whole setup is geared towards me being always ready to do intensive dev
work while staying mobile enough to jump up and do sales or community
management and the Surface fits that purpose perfectly.

[1]
[http://www.ikea.com/de/de/catalog/products/S29022539/](http://www.ikea.com/de/de/catalog/products/S29022539/)
[2]
[https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=nexus_wirel...](https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=nexus_wireless_charger)
[3] [http://www.amazon.com/CaseCrown-Resistant-Vertical-
Messenger...](http://www.amazon.com/CaseCrown-Resistant-Vertical-Messenger-
Microsoft/dp/B009RV2B5A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1411627490&sr=8-1) [4]
[http://www.amazon.com/Jabra-SPEAK-510-Bluetooth-
Softphone/dp...](http://www.amazon.com/Jabra-SPEAK-510-Bluetooth-
Softphone/dp/B00AQUO5RI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1411627614&sr=8-1) [5]
[http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Professional-Presenter-
Green-...](http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Professional-Presenter-Green-
Pointer/dp/B002GHBUTU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1411627671&sr=8-1) [6]
[http://www.amazon.com/EasyAcc-10000mAh-Brilliant-Portable-
PB...](http://www.amazon.com/EasyAcc-10000mAh-Brilliant-Portable-
PB10000C/dp/B00H9BEC8E/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1411628017&sr=8-4)

~~~
showsover
Thanks for the detailed info. You have a sweet set-up.

I'm also looking at the Surface Pro, but sadly I have no need of a laptop or
an extra tablet right now.

------
pacaro
I wonder if differences in implied warranty cut into margin in Europe.

It's not super clear what the actual standard is, but I know that (for
example) a laptop that I had failed at about 13 months old because of a design
flaw and in the US I was SOL, but other complainants with the same flaw in the
UK had the motherboard replaced because the laptop was considered "not fit for
purpose" which if I understand the Sale of Goods Act in the UK is good for 6
years after purchase — that could really eat into the margins in the hardware
industry

~~~
noinsight
In the EU there's a mandatory warranty of 2 years for all electronics.

At least in Finland, the "not fit for purpose" stuff also applies in addition
to that so if you can prove that your hardware failed "unreasonably soon"
because it's somehow defective and not just due to "standard wear and tear",
the manufacturer has to fix it. Of course it has to be a very valid reason for
that to apply.

[http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/ecc/consumer_topics/buying_goo...](http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/ecc/consumer_topics/buying_goods_services_en.htm)

------
contingencies
As this seems a reasonable place to pose the question: I've seen (eg. at
meetups) people using bluetooth keyboards with tablets turned around on stands
as sort of mini-laptops with shell access.

Has anyone here done this with a comfortable hardware configuration for
nontrivial developments tasks? I guess what I really want are tablets that run
proper (vs. Android) Linux, can perhaps handle occasionally running paravirt
at not _entirely_ painful speeds, and (I believe this is the killer standing
in the way) have hardware with open source or reliable enough binary blob
drivers that are therefore safe to frequently deploy very recent kernels to
without losing wifi, sound, camera, GPS, GSM/CDMA, backlight control, etc.

------
hartror
This happened in Australia as well and it really sucks. I run a 15" Series 9
machine and the only thing you can fairly compare it to is a Macbook Air.
They're beautiful pieces of hardware somewhat let down by their crappy LCDs.

I guess my next machine will be a Macbook.

~~~
jfoster
Any idea when this happened in Australia? It's not mentioned in the article
and I remember seeing Samsung laptops in stores as recently as a few months
back, but they do indeed seem to be gone from samsung.com.au.

~~~
hartror
In the past 3-6 months?

------
voteapathy
In a similar vein, I feel that there's a sense that consumers feel tablets are
"vaguely better." By this, I mean a number of things. For example, laptops
often by and large are still sold with hard disc drives instead of solid
state, and therefore tablets are actually a faster experience. tablet and
smartphone UIs do a 'better job' at handling errors; by this I mean keeping
redundant error message pop-ups to a minimum and attempting to more elegantly
kill an app. An app store is a simple and safer place to download new software
than the awful method Windows had going through the 90's and 00's of venturing
out and downloading mysterious programs (which in it of itself has greatly
damaged the Windows reputation).

I guess my point is that these issues are not inherently solved due to the
tablet form factor, but rather better UI and more pointed hardware directed
toward consumer use cases.

------
ljosa
So now it's ThinkPad or MacBook Pro. What is it like to run Linux on MacBook
Pros these days? Does Ubuntu and other popular distributions install without
much fiddling? Does any of the hardware not work with Linux?

~~~
Synaesthesia
Virtualisation is actually a really nice way to run Linux on a Mac.

~~~
72deluxe
I second this. It means stuff typically just works (including that old
chestnut hibernation), plus it means you can write OSX/iOS software still
(which is why I bought one in the first place)

------
MarkMc
I thought Chromebooks were selling like hot cakes, then I asked the guy in
Officeworks if they sold them and he said, "We used to, but not any more". And
now Samsung are pulling their Chromebooks out of Europe.

Are Chromebooks overhyped?

------
ajcarpy2005
It's beginning to seem a little weird when companies refer to either exiting
or entering markets in various regions while remaining unchanged in others.
Obviously this generally effects retail and not online sales.

------
chx
The Samsung Q30, that many of you might know as the Dell X1 was a subnotebook
so far ahead of its time. It was 12", pretty decent 1280x800 resolution,
1.1kg, fanless, less than an inch thick at its thickest.

------
IBM
This is the end game for smartphone OEMs as well.

------
dalore
I literally just bought the Samsung chromebook. Should I return it and get
another chromebook?

~~~
dragonwriter
Why would the fact that Samsung is no longer selling Chromebooks in Europe
make you want to return the Chromebook you already purchased?

~~~
dalore
Well if Samsung don't want to sell more of them, there must be something wrong
with it.

------
prithvitheprime
Sony is just forcing most of the persons to buy windows anyway. Its their
downfall in Europe. But as we can see the growth of tablets; its going to be
end of the road. It don't think Samsung will be back on manufacturing laptops
again in Europe. Like places in India still Samsung, Sony, Dell, Lenovo are
still competitors; even they are now realizing the dead line for laptops

