
The top international cities for software engineers - ohjeez
https://techbeacon.com/top-12-international-cities-software-engineers
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royka118
I live and work in Bristol in the UK, would really recommend it. Such a
vibrant tech scene here plus lots of established companies as well as newer
larger ones opening offices (JustEat for example).

The city itself has a-lot going on (not all tech focused too) and is
surrounded by countryside. Loads of nearby places to visit too such as Bath or
Frome

Also has great transport links to the rest of the UK plus has its own airport

Some tech focused events/groups \- Bristol JS -> www.meetup.com/BristolJS/ \-
techspark -> techspark.co

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a_humean
I live and work in London as a developer with about 2 years work experience,
and I do feel the pull of moving somewhere else like Bristol. Hell of a lot
cheaper than London and seems to have quite high living standards. I have a
feeling its going to get more expensive as more and more people escape
unaffordable London.

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royka118
Wages are good and rent and stuff is not too unaffordable just yet! that being
said houses prices are going up and up

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al452
Regarding the headline: why do Americans say "international" when they
actually mean "not American"?

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guard-of-terra
Because there's no commonly used word in English to represent "not American"?

UPD: there is

Then you'll run into the new problem, that in context of kinda-international
HN it will sound a bit off.

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al452
The common English word "foreign" has that meaning and is perfectly well
available in American English. But it seems like Americans think it's rude or
insensitive to say "foreign" and say "international" (whose primary meaning is
different) instead. I am interested, what's going on?

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ethbro
As a citizen of the US and native English speaker, I would say the
connotations differ.

"International" \- similarity to US / Western political systems and values,
but not in the geographic boundaries of the US

"Foreign" \- different from / opposed to (depending on how xenophobic whoever
you're talking to is) US / Western political systems and values

So, in many ways mirroring the definitions. International is a thing in and of
itself. Foreign is a relationship to something else.

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markplindsay
I've always read that Singapore is NOT a great place for startups, and that
software jobs don't pay well vs. the cost of living.

I would love to hear otherwise because I've always wanted to live and work
there.

~~~
brilliantcode
The rule of thumb is that engineering and startup talent pool is going to be
severely restricted-people will revert to job security at larger corporations
due to the depressed wages, especially for engineers.

This was actually a big reason why I turned down the opportunity to do a
startup in Asia, there's very few unicorns and exits, and while living
standards might be very good in places like Singapore, I felt like it would be
hard to find a marketplace like the United States.

Most of my Asian Canadian friends have moved to Shanghai to pursue high tech
work and hyping China and frankly I just didn't buy any of that
ideological/racial bullshit. At the end of the day, North America still
remains a very open and multicultural place (West Coast at least) that makes
it easy to do business with a diverse group of people which is far more
exciting (for me anyways) without having to travel.

Despite Trump, I feel like entering the US market is a far more exciting. I
think the US economy will experience another major surge while Russia slowly
goes into bankruptcy (again) and China implodes under it's debt/sociopolitical
unrest that follows.

I'm doubling down on North America over China & Asia-providing jobs in Canada
and United States with the expectation that I will see _yuge_ returns.

~~~
reloop
China is in a totally different league though. There's nothing else like it in
the world today. Completely understandable that not everyone can or want to go
there (especially since there are also many downsides), but you can't take
that away from them.

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donretag
Interesting to see South Africa at the top of the purchasing power list. I
received a job offer from Amazon in Cape Town (where AWS originated), but I
turned it down. Your money did go very far there. Sadly, I could not accept
the job for multiple reasons, but I do think about my decision constantly. I
really loved Cape Town.

One aspects which made me not regret my decision so much is that I would have
gotten paid in rand, which was been greatly devalued since my offer, causing
me to lose money in terms of USD.

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abpavel
The crime rates and the sociopolitical climate should be taken into account as
well. I think you made a good decision.

~~~
donretag
I did get used to being always vigilant. The beautiful homes surrounded by
high walls and electric fencing. I've been playing the lotto recently so that
I can quit my job and make it to Cape Town by March to compete in the Cape
Argus.

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elvinyung
>Hamilton, Canada

What the _fuck_?

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Diederich
Can you expand on that?

I don't know too much about Canada, but
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamilton,_Ontario](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamilton,_Ontario)
indicates that it at least sanity checks.

~~~
usful
Was primarily a steel industry town that has collapsed in the 90s. Hamilton
has a high unemployment rate and high crime rate compared to other Canadian
cities.

However because of very affordable housing a lot of young professionals have
started to move back and revitalize the city.

Many people still associate Hamilton with drugs crime and poverty.

~~~
Diederich
Thank you for the clarification!

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allemagne
Shanghai and Taipei are at the top of my personal list for when I'm looking
for another job, so I'm excited to see them mentioned on some of the lists
being used.

Are there any developers currently working in those areas who could share
advice or experience? For context, I'm a white American who can speak
conversationally in Mandarin and has some experience living in tier 2 cities.

~~~
soyiuz
Are you worried about air quality? Seems to be a deal breaker (due to adverse
health consequences).

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CodeSheikh
What about quality of life for "single" people? IN terms of activities etc. It
is a huge factor for young people.

~~~
brilliantcode
Yeah, this is actually an overlooked variable which is significant.

Millenials are't getting married and having kids like previous generation. Lot
of professionals living by themselves.

I thought hard about how to fix this social isolation plague that is
especially bad in city core. Especially for people who are on the autism
spectrum disorder, ptsd, add and severe social anxiety.

I don't see any solution. This is the outcome of our free market capitalism
experiment. It explains why communal and group orientated cultures suffer
under the weight of isolation and work stress. South Korea, Japan, Taiwan,
China all suffer from high rate of suicides probably in that order.

I often wonder if this capitalist system that structurally oppresses a large
chunk of the population with our things, wants, race to obtain scarce goods,
was purposefully installed to keep people in-line.

Take a look around next time you are packed into a tiny Skytrain box. Everyone
is a slave to this tiny screen in their hands. A lot of those people probably
live by themselves and not talk to anyone at work or outside. They wear fancy
clothes or cars or new condo but these are ephemeral they add diminishing
returns to the quality of our life which is tied to human connections.

We've replaced humane aspects of our society with things and I feel like none
of the cities they listed in that article really is a good fit for "human
quality of life"

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burger_moon
You look at it as a problem and think we're broken, but I quite enjoy being
alone. I cannot imagine I'm alone in that opinion either. I guess I just don't
see the problem with wanted to live alone and have personal hobbies that don't
require group involvement.

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ionised
I enjoy solitude too, in fact I require it in large, prolonged time periods or
I go crazy. Socialising is something I like to keep to short, controlled
doses.

Many people (I'd wager most) are not this way though. Loneliness and solitude
are two different things. We are not broken when we are alone for long
periods, but most others are.

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reacharavindh
Moving to Aarhus, Denmark later this year from Raleigh, NC. Primarily because
my girlfriend got a job there and wishes to stay in Europe (she is EU
national). But, she and many of my European friends have been convincing me
that quality of life is so much better over there(subjectively) inspite of a
deep cut in my earnings. I do care about the highest quality of food, sensible
political climate, and flexibility to travel more. So far Denmark seems like a
good choice to me. Anybody have relatable experiences or comments?

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soyiuz
Was in Aarhus over the summer. Thousands of bikes. People leave them unlocked
outside. Seaside. Forests. An amazing food scene. Canals. A world class
university. Happy people everywhere.

~~~
reacharavindh
Thanks! It helps to hear it from fellow HNer. Do you have an idea about the
tech scene over there? I'm having a hard time finding good tech jobs that are
relevant for me there :-(

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oriettaxx
Chiang Mai has been some how sponsored by many, but believe me it is not
interesting at all. The air is _really_ polluted all year around (worst in feb
and march), and the so called "community" to me does not exists. It is just a
cheap place to live, but at almost the same expenses you can live south of
Thailand, seaside, which at least is less polluted.

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ethbro
As someone who visited recently, socially it also seemed fairly conservative
(albeit in the friendly Thai way).

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UweSchmidt
If I ever get to work 100% remote I'd probably check Nomadlist.com

No offense to Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, but I need more arguments before I come
visit :)

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ci5er
If you are truly nomadic, why wouldn't you visit for a bit to see for
yourself?

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latenightcoding
What type of visa would you apply for if you are self employed. For example if
I want to move to Russia what type of visa would I need to be there 1 year
working remotely for American companies.

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guard-of-terra
You can always ask on Expatriates Stack Exchange but I assume it wouldn't be
easy. If you plan to work you're usually assumed to work for a local company.

You could probably pull it applying for a business visa and then registering
as an enterpreneur (ИП) - but you should definitely ask for a qualified
opinion.

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rihegher
"Cities with the fastest Internet speeds number 1: Bordeaux, France" This is a
joke!

