
Was ditching the headphone jack a good idea? - bunderbunder
https://www.soundguys.com/was-ditching-the-headphone-jack-a-good-idea-13825/
======
peapicker
I say no. I use my iPhone heavily as a synth or guitar processor etc.
Bluetooth latency is too high to make it useable wirelessly so I require a
hardwire into a mixer to perform. The iPhone has the lowest latency audio
stack of smartphones when used with a wire. This is important and removing the
headphone jack means dongles or latency. What makes this especially bad is
that the iPhone camera connector dongle is already required when plugging in
many MIDI controllers. This has prevented me from upgrading beyond my 6s as
many of my apps are challenged without a real-time audio output that doesn’t
also use my lightning connector which I need for the camera connector.

~~~
delinka
This is the rub. With the removal of the jack, Apple is _telling_ us that
their phones are not [music/audio] creators' tools. Apparently it's their
desire that creators use, what, iPad? Their ever-disappointing line of
laptops? The outdated Mac Pro? I just don't know.

I do know that from the entire collection of screen sizes and hardware
configuration options I'd like to choose my mode of creation, but Apple seems
to think that telling me "iPhone is not a creation device" is Just Fine®.

~~~
tazjin
> Apparently it's their desire that creators use, what, iPad? Their ever-
> disappointing line of laptops? The outdated Mac Pro? I just don't know.

Or maybe ... none of the above? Content creators are probably a tiny fraction
of Apple's user base at this point. I think they just don't care.

~~~
bdamm
It’s a mistake. We’re paying $1000+ for this tool that presents itself as a
versatile information slinger, well I hope it can do more than Facebook,
Instagram and Gmail. This is an amazing platform, completely damaged by its
limited IO. Apple is moving away from its roots. Not good. Creators will go
elsewhere, their desirable creations will become native elsewhere, and the
sheep will follow.

~~~
sandov
Why try to appeal to the creators when people are willing to pay thousands of
dollars for pretty social media boxes?

------
dabbledash
I was not irritated by the thickness or weight of my iPhone 6 and its
headphone jack. I am regularly irritated by the fact that I can’t charge my
iPhone and plug in headphones at the same time.

Obviously I can plan around this, but it’s gone from something I don’t have to
think about to something I have to think about.

~~~
mauvehaus
This was originally going to read "Phenomenally stupid question, but why
hasn't somebody brought out an adapter cable that provides both charging and a
3.5mm jack?"

But I figured I should google first. Does anybody have any firsthand
experience with Belkin's adapter that lets you do both simultaneously? Asking
since my wife's work phone just got "upgraded" and we found ourselves unable
to listen to a podcast on our last road trip.

~~~
Big_crimpin
You may find this helpful

[https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/5/18/17369236/a...](https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/5/18/17369236/android-
usb-c-charge-listen-headphone-jack-adapter)

If you're on Android the answer is no, there's no way to do it.

~~~
mjrpes
This was true until recently. A new product has come out:

[https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07FCZY1ZB/](https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07FCZY1ZB/)

I bought this for my essential phone two weeks ago and it does actually work,
like reviews state. It's been wonderful to get that jack back.

Bluetooth, as cool as it is, has never been 100% reliable for me. Getting
random choppy audio and charging headphone batteries is something I don't want
to deal with anymore when I am sitting in bed. I tried it for nine months, and
the experience sucked big time.

Bluetooth still works fine in my car, though. So I'll keep using it there.

~~~
B1FF_PSUVM
_" This is the World’s FIRST USB c to 3.5mm audio adapter that supports
listening music from usb c phone and charging the phone simultaneously"_

Whelp, good thing those Android phone makers ensured this existed before
pulling the plug ... oh, wait ...

------
crazygringo
I was totally on the hate train with how ridiculous it was to remove the
headphone jack, and how unnecessary Bluetooth headphones were...

...but once I got my first pair of Bluetooth headphones and realized I never
need to deal with tangled/frayed/broken/caught wires again, I'm never looking
back. Charging turned out to be, surprisingly, a non-issue.

I'm totally convinced Bluetooth headphones are the way forwards, and it's
silly to have a jack for old tech. And for the small x% of the time or x% of
the users where things like latency or line-out are needed... there's a
dongle, it works perfectly, and it's fine. And if you need to charge at the
same time, get a dongle that charges at the same time.

That's the whole _point_ of dongles -- a smaller/simpler device for 90-99% of
people, at the cost of a tiny bit more expensive/complex solution for the
remaining 1-10%.

Feels like the right tradeoff to me.

~~~
tomc1985
Ugh, no. Those considerations are fine for people who are like you.

Some of us have different considerations and we're sick of being run over by
these convenience freaks

To all the downvoters, these are some reasons:

* Low latency applications

* Existing high-end hardware one may own (old Sennheisers mop the floor with a pair of "high end" Beats)

* same port in use everywhere for past 50 years, there are a ridiculous amount of products for it

* Ability to connect a non-USB headphone amp

* Everybody understands it

* No need to charge your headphones(!)

* No stupidly expensive tech to license to make something as simple and dumb as headphones

* No stupidly complicated tech to master to make something as simple and dumb as headphones

* WHY would you put logic and circuitry in a simple mechanical device?? Do manufacturers just LOVE skyrocketing costs?

* Do any of these guys value simplicity in design any more? Or is tech charging full-steam into unnecessary complexity?

And on the subject of wireless standards:

* Other 2.4ghz wireless standards have way better range. (I used to work in a large factory-type building with literally thousands of consumer printers all turned and broadcasting their individualized ad-hoc 802.11 signals. We would have chronic issues with the Wi-Fi (on account of thousands of networks) and I could be on the other side of the building with my headphones and still get clear audio. (Oftentimes it would cut out depending on location but the range I saw was a good 3x what I could get with bluetooth)

* * *

C'mon this is like 100-year-old tech that everyone understands and loves,
EXCEPT for the cable. Way for the technology makers to throw out the baby with
the bathwater, so that they can sell you their crap all over again.

~~~
TheJoYo
I have high end sennheisers and airbuds. The only time I pull out my
sennheisers is when im doing recording or live sampling. Bluetooth is
opensource, it's not overly complicated it's just new to you. This technology
was already being used in live performances with no one complaining.

~~~
userbinator
_it 's not overly complicated it's just new to you_

Download the Bluetooth specification and try to read it.

How is that not "overly complicated" compared to three copper wires?

~~~
TheJoYo
Specifications are used to reference in conjunction with an implementation.
There are many specifications I could point to that would overwhelm most
engineers yet they use those standards just fine.

~~~
userbinator
The point I'm making is that it is a very complex standard whose use-case goes
far beyond carrying audio from a device on a person to the headphones in
his/her ears.

To give another example, GSM is also a very complicated standard (or more
precisely, set of standards) but no one would really advocate for all
landlines in buildings to be replaced with non-mobile GSM phones attached to
the wall.

~~~
derefr
ISDN and SIP are complicated standards, but telecom engineers _do_ advocate to
their customers, whenever possible, to drop POTS in favour of VoIP softphone
service run over the same lines.

VoIP-over-ISDN solutions are far easier to wire a large building for (it's
just the existing ethernet drops, coming from the same switches the building
already has, now carrying an additional VLAN); it removes many potential
sources of interference; it increases voice quality; and it's just plain
easier to deliver.

All that despite being, in pretty much every way, "more complicated."

------
pornel
I've got AirPods and I'm sold. I'm not going back to wired headphones.

Apple has got proximity-based pairing nailed so well, it's easier than
plugging a jack in. I can connect to other iPhones as easily as mine. Macs
logged in to my iCloud don't need pairing at all. It works like it should, not
like a typical Bluetooth crap.

The charging case is more convenient to carry than a bundle of wires. And of
course I can walk around, zip my jacket, etc. without minding the wire.

It's more expensive, proprietary, it doesn't work well for some people. But I
can definitely see why having AirPods Apple thought wired headphones are the
next floppy drive.

~~~
madeofpalk
I love my AirPods. I find them fairly comfortable and the audio quality is
fine, perfect for podcasts (theory: the rise of AirPods and rise of podcasts
are related).

However, AirPods don't require the removal of the headphone jack! The removal
of the headphone jack is still so consumer hostile: it serves zero benefit to
anyone apart from bluetooth accessory makers. If Apple really was serious
about advancing bluetooth headphones, they would _at least_ license the W1 for
the pairing magic to other manufacturers.

Good Bluetooth headphones AND headphone jacks can exist at the same time!
Anyone arguing for the removal of headphone jacks aren't grounded in any sort
of reality tbh.

~~~
wilsonnb3
> Anyone arguing for the removal of headphone jacks aren't grounded in any
> sort of reality tbh.

The problem is that there isn’t really a good argument to keep the headphone
jack. It’s a redundant port because lightning/usbC and Bluetooth both handle
audio. You would need a strong justification to keep it when you could use
that space for other stuff in the phone.

~~~
madeofpalk
No.

What _disadvantages_ come from the removal of a ubiquitous headphone
interconnect that's been on our devices for years? iPhone's have gotten
_thicker_ since the removal of the headphone jack. Apple's made iPods much
thinner than any of the iPhones, and they all had headphone jacks.

There's no problem. It's not redundant if you want to charge your phone and
listen to audio at the same time - I have those Bose headphones noice
cancelling headphones that everyone travels with. To use them, I need to carry
around an adapter which is a pain. When I fly, I have to choose whether to
charge my phone or listen to audio.

Look, I love my iPhone X, but I've gotten absolutely nothing out of losing the
headphone jack. It's only come at costs.

------
exabrial
Is there enough bandwidth available in a cubicle farm or 787 for everyone to
use their airpods?

I doubt it. Headphone jack was a nice reliable piece of hardware. Thank
goodness some other brands are rooted in reality.

~~~
threeseed
Headphone jack is a nice reliable piece of hardware. But it comes at the
expense of more space for batteries or features that more people will use.

Ethernet is more reliable than WiFi. Power is more reliable than batteries.
But the world doesn't want wires so Apple has to listen.

~~~
NeedMoreTea
OnePlus did a poll that got the answer 88% of customers wanted them to keep
the headphone jack. Which they then got rid of anyway. Presumably the poll was
hoped or expected to reinforce a decision already made.

It's very clear consumers aren't clamouring for losing the jack. There are a
lot more dollars selling wireless and they have an inherent limited life
thanks to battery lifespan.

The SE, with a headphone jack, is roughly the same thickness as the new XS
without. They both have bluetooth for those who might like wireless.

That's not Apple or whoever listening, that's them imposing.

~~~
threeseed
Of course consumers want the headphone jack. Nobody likes having any
functionality taken away.

But did the poll ask them which they want: Thinner iPhone/No Headphone or
Thicker iPhone/Headphone

~~~
NeedMoreTea
The XS is 7.7mm thick, the SE 7.6mm. It's not a relevant question.

Were the new generation of phones _thinner_ than the jack I'd have to concede
you may have a point, but that is not what we're getting.

If the question becomes "would you like 0.2% more battery or a headphone
jack?" I doubt many would vote to remove.

~~~
timjver
I doubt the difference will only be 0.2%.

~~~
zaroth
My rough calculation is that you get 165 mAh for every 1 cubic cm. A headphone
jack will take approximately 1 cubic centimeter inside the case.

The iPhone X battery is rated for 2716 mAh.

So if you could use 100% of that volume efficiently for increasing battery
volume, I think battery capacity increases approximately 6%.

------
peterbraden
I'm more angry at google for removing them from the pixel than for apple.

I want to vote with my dollars, but at the moment the options for phones with
headphone jacks and no crapware preinstalled are exceedingly limited.

~~~
imandride
I have found OnePlus does the trick for me. I actually prefer if it to any of
the mainstream phones.

~~~
marcolussetti
I gather OnePlus is removing the jack in the 6T though.

------
coldtea
> _With the new iPhones coming out today, I wanted to revisit the whole Apple
> vs. headphone jack fiasco._

You keep using that word, fiasco. I don't think it means what you think it
means. It doesn't mean "hoopla". It means "disaster/failure".

With the phones selling more than any model before them, I'd hardly call that
decision a fiasco for Apple.

~~~
silverbax88
But Apple isn't the top selling phone any more. It's the Galaxy models. The
only time new Apple phones retake the top spot is when they first release a
new model.

~~~
coldtea
> _But Apple isn 't the top selling phone any more. It's the Galaxy models._

The iPhone rarely was the top selling phone and never had the majority of the
market (though it was of course a single company against 4-5 other companies
anyway).

It was the phone that caught most of the top end (pricy) market and almost all
of the profits, and it remains that.

That said, not sure what's this "isn't the top selling phone any more" is
supposed to mean. The headphone-jack-less iPhone X killed it in the market:

[https://www.cnet.com/news/iphone-x-was-best-selling-
smartpho...](https://www.cnet.com/news/iphone-x-was-best-selling-smartphone-
in-early-2018/)

~~~
silverbax88
That report is EXACTLY what I mean. Apple is having to push the narrative
based on segmented data in order to appear to have market dominance. 'Early
2018' is when they released their last model - and prior to the S9 release.
Even then, Apple was barely beating Galaxy models 2 and 3 years older.

That report was the moment I knew Apple had lost their position as the leader
in the market, because they had to take specific dates in time to say they
were best-selling...as opposed to a few years ago, when they were best selling
all year long in a runaway.

~~~
coldtea
Err, Apple always posts their results quarter by quarter.

Besides, not even sure what you're going about. Apple never sold the most
phones.

If anything it's the opposite: they're catching up to Samsung:

[https://www.statista.com/chart/7941/apple-vs-samsung-
smartph...](https://www.statista.com/chart/7941/apple-vs-samsung-smartphone-
shipments/)

~~~
silverbax88
Do you even read what you post links to? You are posting ONE quarter results
from winter of 2018 that completely backs up what I just wrote. You need to at
least review what you are randomly Googling.

------
totallymike
While I’m definitely not a fan of losing the headphone jack, and don’t love
not being able to use my headphones and charge my phone, I do see one positive
side effect, and I wonder if Apple is doing it on purpose.

You can now buy $20 bluetooth earbuds from Anker that are pretty decent. Apple
saying “guess what, everybody: you love bluetooth” has forced the market to
respond, and that whole price-down-quality-up thing is really starting to
happen.

This, of course, is of no use to people who depend on minimal latency. It will
be a very long time, if ever, before bluetooth can match hardwired latency.

What we really need next from Apple is for them to replace lightning with
USB-C. I’d love to see the ability to _choose to_ externalize the
DAC+amplifier without buying either a lightning-only accessory or a camera
adapter. Oh, and also be able to charge the phone while we’re at it.

~~~
pohl
Regarding latency: although I love my AirPods and I do not miss the headphone
jack, there’s one real application that I doubt will ever be adequate over
Bluetooth: monitoring the audio while you’re playing electric guitar through
an amp simulator on your phone. The tiniest amount of latency really stands
out while you’re playing.

~~~
chillingeffect
similarly: wireless microphones for blogging.

~~~
tomjakubowski
Could you elaborate? Do you mean the latency for wireless microphones is
unacceptable for dictation, or what?

------
nopacience
I like wires. Every time i can, i choose to use a wire. Be it for internet or
headphones.

The reason for my wired preference is security. I trust cables more than i
trust wireless.

Bluetooth is insecure. I dont think it is secure to walk around in a mall with
your bluetooth turned on. (correct me if i am wrong)

Wifi WPA2 is probably secure. However wifi WEP is completely insecure. For
many years WEP has been widely used. Another problem with wifi are fake
networks that use the same name as a public network.

Another interesting fact with wired headphones is they wont fall down directly
on the floor, because of the wires. The same goes with the computer mouse..
sometimes it moves to the edge of the table and might want to fall.. the wire
will hold it.

Wireless keyboards is definitively a no go since teorically its possible to
passively listen for pressed keys just like a keylogger.

Wireless technology sure looks better without all the wires, however when
people choose convenience(wireless), they lose some security.

So when i can, i choose wires.

~~~
IshKebab
> I dont think it is secure to walk around in a mall with your bluetooth
> turned on. (correct me if i am wrong)

You are wrong. I don't recall any Bluetooth security issues from just having
Bluetooth _on_ or from having an established connection. Those things are
pretty well solved in all vaguely modern wireless standards.

The issues are always around the initial connection and key exchange. PIN-
based pairing has various flaws in Bluetooth, but Bluetooth headphones use
"Just Works" pairing, which I don't think has had any issues, other than the
_design_ compromise that it is vulnerable to MitM. That is vanishingly
unlikely to happen with Bluetooth headphones though.

WPA2 is secure if you use a very strong password. WEP is basically extinct.

~~~
tsxxst
Just a year ago, a remote execution vulnerability was discovered in bluetooth
stacks across major OSes:
[https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/09/12/bluetooth_bugs_bede...](https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/09/12/bluetooth_bugs_bedevil_billions_of_devices/)

> "Just having Bluetooth on puts you at risk," said Izrael.

------
tomduncalf
Ended up attaching my dongle to my headphones with a Velcro cable tie after
forgetting it one too many times (I need to take it on and off all the time to
connect it to my Mac, as it doesn’t have a Lightning port - the fact that that
situation exists feels like an omen that Apple aren’t quite firing on all
cylinders). It sucks and looks stupid but it kind of solves the problem.

I wish they’d not removed the port, it’s a real pain and I’m not willing to go
wireless until there’s a way to do it with zero latency. I’ll be really
disappointed if the new iPad removes the headphone socket as it’s pretty
essential for music making on the go.

~~~
Feeble
I use a dongle too. I got it permanently attached on my headphones.

i think he makes a false dichotomy in his article. He is not bringing up a
dongle at all and makes the choice to either a phone with a 3.5mm output or
bluetooth. I would give this more credibility if this was discussed as well.

~~~
philjohn
It was called out in the comments, and a link provided to the product page on
Apple.com with nothing more than a "nuh-uh" to accompany it.

------
jmull
I get why some people are annoyed, but it’s not like the 3.5mm jack was so
great.

If you forget the massive number of compatible headphones in existence, the
3.5mm jack isn’t that great. If we were designing the ideal audio interface
today, it would not be the 3.5mm jack.

For an audiophile experience, you’d better love the DAC built into your phone.
You also probably need to live with whatever audio processing parameters the
phone manufacturer chose because probably few, if any, are exposed. You’re
largely shut out of control over audio processing details.

Meanwhile, for mobile use you, need to thether your head to your phone and
manage the cord. Not a great fit for mobile uses because you don’t want to
move around too freely. It gets worse in the oft-mentioned scenario of
charging while listening, because now you’re generally tethering your head to
a wall or at least a battery pack. Not great.

The 3.5mm jack also doesn’t have a decent protocol for on-device listening
controls. There are workarounds so maybe you can play/pause or skip tracks,
but then again maybe not. There are wide compatibility problems. Forget about
anything advanced.

It’s not like lightning connector is perfect, and neither is Bluetooth. I’m
just pointing out that the 3.5mm jack isn’t a no-brainer by any stretch and it
makes sense to look for something better, whether or no you think Apple or
other OEMs succeeded.

~~~
nikofeyn
> For an audiophile experience, you’d better love the DAC built into your
> phone.

that's why i use lg's v series of phones that include a high-end audio dac.

> Meanwhile, for mobile use you, need to tether your head to your phone and
> manage the cord. Not a great fit for mobile uses because you don’t want to
> move around too freely.

that's a false argument because the inclusion of an audio jack does not
prevent the use of bluetooth. i use high-end headphones at work, home, and in
certain travel situations like a plane and use bluetooth everywhere else like
with my car and wireless bluetooth speakers.

you said the 3.5mm jack would not be the interface designed today, but yet,
you didn't come up with an alternative. the sound with a proper dac and
headphones and a physical audio jack is incomparable to bluetooth and
bluetooth headphones. and having the physical audio jack makes it much easier
to do what i want with the audio when i want. whether it's attaching to a bose
bluetooth speaker or outputting audio to sample on my op-1, it's the best of
both worlds.

the problem i have with apple is that they have never given a compelling and
logical reason for removing the audio jack. my lg v35 has the audio jack plus
a high-end audio dac and yet the design is every bit as sleek and compact as
the iphone x phones, in fact, maybe even more so because the camera doesn't
protrude.

so all of this is pointless arguing simply because apple can't even answer the
question of "why", as in why even remove it in the first place.

------
hanief
Apple is pursuing the wireless future, as simple as that. Be it audio, data
transfer, or even power. In the case of headphone jack, they pursue that goal
by fixing the bluetooth flaws not by content with what we have right now. Is
it a worthy goal to pursue? Time will tell.

~~~
StreamBright
I am not against the future but shouldn't we have the alternative ready before
we kill the 'previous' version of something? For me the new wireless
headphones are not an option because of lack of hi-fi options and because of
the need of charging frequently. If we had the same exact experience (great
sound quality for lossless and once a year charging) than I would be more
inclined to buy it.

~~~
threeseed
But you're part of an insignificant minority.

People charge their phone everyday so it isn't a massive deal to charge your
AirPods as well. And the sound quality right now is more than good enough
especially given that you're asking people to tradeoff their data usage.

~~~
Yetanfou
What makes you think it is normal to charge your phone every day? I charge
mine on average every 4th day when the battery has run down to about 30%-35%
(or at around 12 hours of screen time). I use two phones, one for daily use
and another for work in the forest/on the farm. The daily phone is a Xiaomi
Redmi Note 5 which can last for up to a week on a charge, the work phone a
Motorola Defy of around 8 years old which now lasts for around 4 days, it used
to last for a week as well. While I might be a bit of an outlier with these
devices I don't see charging a phone daily as a norm to be espoused. In the
age of "dumb" phones charging the thing once a week was the norm, not the
exception. If these devices are to be the go-to for all things digital they
_should_ have longer autonomy.

~~~
StreamBright
Exactly this. People don't realize that almost nobody needs better CPUs in the
phones and almost everybody would benefit from higher capacity battery. If
batteries were developing at the same pace as CPUs we would have batteries
that last for years with a single charge. For me the ideal phone is iPhone 6s
that does everything that I have ever wanted to do with a phone, and even more
that I do not actually need. The only missing feature is a long lasting
battery.

------
einrealist
I am still pissed at Apple for removing the jack and I held on to my iPhone
6s, until now. I ordered myself an iPhone Xs Max, but only because Shure now
offers a Lightning cable for their IEMs. I use the SE846. The biggest issue
with the Xs is still, that I cant charge and listen at the same time without
using a dongle. And since I travel a lot, this could make me reconsider to buy
Apple in the future.

Apple really lost points for removing the jack.

~~~
komeijist
Not pissed enough to reconsider the heavy iphone xs max investment apparently,
which, in the end, might have made a difference compared to continuously
feeding them money.

~~~
einrealist
That's true. For me, the advantages of a stable Apple ecosystem outweigh the
issue with the missing headphone jack. The fact that I can still use and
upgrade my iPhone 6s is validation. With Android, I always fear that I don't
get updates anymore after just two years. And I never liked Google's app
store. There too many malicious apps in the store.

I probably use the new iPhone at least as long as I used the old one. The
update cycles are getting longer as these phones get more powerful.

------
BurritoAlPastor
I'm pretty disgruntled about losing the 3.5mm jack, but I don't buy this idea
that Apple did it to sell wireless Beats, for one reason: the product lineup
_sucks_.

Apple knows how to make truly great audio hardware; the AirPods really are
extraordinary. But the Beats lineup clearly hasn't received any serious
attention, as evidenced by two things:

1) they still sell wireless hardware that _doesn 't_ have the W1 chip, _two
years_ after it was first released

2) for God's sake, all their devices charge over micro-USB!

~~~
user5994461
>>> but I don't buy this idea that Apple did it to sell wireless Beats, for
one reason: the product lineup sucks.

Counter argument. The product lineup sucks so they had to help the sales in
any way possible.

------
VintageCool
Reading these threads, I feel like I am the only person in the world who has
had problems with headphones jacks.

There's a big scuzzy pop when you plug in or remove the jack while speakers
are on.

I've had several devices get crud in the jack, so that you have to rotate and
push and position the jack just right to get sound.

Still, I appreciate having the wire and I wish that USB-C headphones had done
better. I would have liked to get phones with two USB-C ports.

~~~
CodeWriter23
You’re not the only one. But now I feel like I’m the only one who has the
exact same issues with Lightning connections.

I get the same pop when jacking in using the Lightning-to-3.5 dongle. And I
mean, making the 3.5 connection first, Lightning second.

Also, Lighting (and I suspect USB C) female connectors are dust, lint, and
particulate magnets. What happens when those get fouled, the gold plating on
the Lightning cable is scraped off one or more of the pins. So then you have
either a broken cable or one that will charge but only if oriented correctly.
So same issue, rotate the connector and maybe it works.

AND the thing that pisses me off the most...I have to carry around some old
earbuds with the 3.5 in case I want to watch some Netflix on my MacBook Pro
because I can’t plug my new EarPids into it. There’s no Lightning jack on any
Mac. And there’s not even a dongle for that use case. All the USB M to
Lightning F are for charging only.

~~~
toxik
Huh, I got 3.5mm earphones and an adapter with my phone. Also, get AirPods.
Unless you call for several hours uninterrupted every day, like somebody up
thread claimed.

~~~
Fnoord
Airpods? Lets see. MacRumors Buyer's Guide says "caution - approaching end of
life cycle" [1]

Furthermore they look terrible. They're white, and they look like I have an
Oral B toothbrush in my ears. I have no option to avoid either of that? Thank
you, no.

As for the discussion: I'd like to be able to enter a store, listening to
music, with all my radios off. It is called airplane mode. Was removing 1 gbit
ethernet from laptops a good idea? I miss it, but having an adequate amount of
USB ports solves the issue. Why not have two 2 USB-C ports on a smartphone and
be done with it?

[1]
[https://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#AirPods](https://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#AirPods)

------
jjuhl
I recently needed a new phone and ended up buying a Nokia 8. The fact that it
had a headphone jack was one of my main reasons for selecting it. I'm not
going to ditch my collection of high quality functioning headphones just to
spend more money buying new ones and getting worse audio quality.

------
albertgoeswoof
I use the headphones for phone calls, I often work remotely / travel and have
maybe 3-4 hours on the phone a day on average. Wireless headphones don’t have
a mic I can hold close to my mouth, and headsets look doorky, especially if
I’m travelling. Not to mention that if the battery runs out I’m stuck holding
the phone to my ear (no ability to mute) or on speakerphone (can’t work in an
open office or public environment).

Not being able to charge the phone and be on the phone at the same time is
incredibly annoying. Sometimes I take video calls on my laptop and I can’t
plug the lightning headphones into my laptop without an adapter.

I didn’t think it would annoy me so much but there are times when I need to
get work done and this gets in the way, and the alternatives just aren’t
reliable enough.

Having a thinner phone is irrelevant because I have to put a case around it
anyway.

It’s frustrating that we have so many different connectors (lightning, 3.5mm,
Bluetooth, hdmi, mini usb, usb C, usb A, MagSafe, ...). I wish apple would
pick one and go for it (usb C maybe?)

~~~
aembleton
Why do you need to hold the microphone close to your mouth?

I often answer calls whilst wearing these cheap Mpow earphones. Even with
background traffic noise people can still hear me
[http://amzn.eu/d/8zNp1kz](http://amzn.eu/d/8zNp1kz)

~~~
albertgoeswoof
People can’t hear in some cases, especially as I work with people from all
over the world and English is often a second language. You need to be 100%
clear, consistently without failure.

Also, it looks weird if I don’t pull the mic closer. With your headphones
people can’t tell you’re on the phone.

We’ve had telephones for over 100 years so I don’t think it’s too much to ask.

------
gaspoweredcat
no it was not, some of us still like our high quality wired headphones. with
that said im also a great believer in having a dedicated device, while ill
occasionally use my phone for convenience i generally use a separate device
for music as it can provide much better sound quality and not hammer my phones
already under capable battery but im a little more serious about my audio than
most people.

it does however highlight an interesting point, most portable devices make a
consideration for air travel in their design, the dell xps15 for example has a
97wh battery because 99wh is the limit for taking into an airplane cabin, yet
turn on airplane mode on your phone and it disables all wireless connections,
bluetooth included so if you were relying on your airpods to provide your in
flight music youre out of luck

~~~
beojan
You can turn on airplane mode, then turn Bluetooth on specifically.

~~~
gaspoweredcat
is that an iphone specific feature? (im an android user so not that familiar
with ios) if not ive just not noticed it before

i guess it highlights how stupid the ban on wireless connectivity on planes is
(not like it wasnt blatantly obvious that theyd never let a vehicle carrying
hundreds of lives into the sky with unsheilded components that could be
brought down by anyone with a ten quid nokia)

~~~
Symbiote
It works on my Android phone, and the last few flights I've taken have
specifically said "we don't have WiFi, but you can activate airplane mode then
turn on Bluetooth".

(Your writing would be much easier to read with capital letters and
apostrophes.)

~~~
gaspoweredcat
probably and were i not jobless, homeless and using a knackered old laptop
with several non working keys including the at/apostrophe key and incredibly
intermittent shift keys id likely use them more often but such is life

------
woolvalley
I like bluetooth headphones, but even the airpods have trouble connecting to
my iphone at times, and UI to connect the headphones is a complicated 5+ tap
process. And if they aren't airpods, then I have to go into the settings app
specifically and add 3 more taps for even more annoyance.

And when I tap to connect a specific bluetooth headphone, it may or may not
connect. If it doesn't, its an even more annoying process of turning bluetooth
on and off and the headphones on and off to get a connection.

It's this part of bluetooth alone that is the most annoying part of them. On
top of apple not giving a good dedicated UI to managing your bluetooth
headphones. Burying it 3-5 screens deep is not a good user experience.

Too bad android is a security and privacy mess.

------
chiph
So Apple did it to fatten the bottom line of their Beats subsidiary, which
currently owns about half the Bluetooth headphone market. So why is everyone
else dropping the jack on their phones? They don't have a similar profitable
arrangement. It seems like they're just pissing-off potential customers, but
without an income stream to compensate.

~~~
geerlingguy
It also reduces the bill of materials (cheaper and easier manufacturing),
saves a decent chunk of space inside a very compact electronics device, and
greatly improves ease of maintaining water resistance.

Not saying I like the trend, just that it does make sense even if you don’t
sell wireless headphones too.

------
b3b0p
Removing the headphone jack, but allowing the option to use a dongle, I can
live with. What really drives me nuts is all these (expensive) wireless
headphones and earbuds, but the batteries are not replaceable. After a year or
few they basically become useless because the batteries end up degrading and
lasting only a fraction of when they were new.

------
sedachv
I put a mid-range Kenwood head unit in my road trip car last year. So far only
one person has been able to figure out how to pair their phone to it over
Bluetooth (the instruction manual is in the glove compartment; doesn't help).
The Bluetooth audio skips. The audio jack requires no set-up, works 100% of
the time, and never skips.

~~~
bootlooped
Maybe that is more the fault of the head unit than anything else. Several
years ago I bought and installed an aftermarket stereo which could play mp3s
from a usb stick. I think it was a Kenwood in the $150 - $200 range. I recall
being stunned by how horrible and behind-the-times the UI and menus were. I
thought "all they had to do was copy the iPod menu layout" (or any other
decent mp3 player).

That and other experiences with car infotainment systems have lead me to
believe that any electronics that go in a car are at least 5 years behind
their non-automobile equivalents.

------
jkabrg
Problem with non-wireless headphones is that they break. One side of the
headphones stops playing sounds; you can sometimes spin the connector and get
the sound back, but that gets annoying, and it stops working eventually. The
less wires and connectors, the less things can break, no?

~~~
pdkl95
Cheaply made products that break easily are always a problem; there are
certainly a lot of terrible headphones on the market, with or without wires.

However, the problem you are describing:

> One side of the headphones stops playing sounds; you can sometimes spin the
> connector and get the sound back, [...] and it stops working eventually.

I suspect that might be terrible quality _wires_ , not necessarily the
headphones. The quality of patch cable at the usual big-box consumer stores
has fallen dramatically over the last ~5-10 years. It can be really difficult
to find a cable hasn't changed the outer protective wrapping from traditional
softer rubber(?) to some sort of cheap plastic. The wrapping on the new cables
can harden badly over as little as 2-3 months, leading to sharp kinks/bends
forming over time that break the delicate wires inside.

The newer cables also tend to lack protective stiffeners at the ends for
protection against damaging the wires if the cables is pulled at a right angle
to the connector.

Once the wire has started to break, you might be able to get it working again
for a while by turning the connector (if the break is at or near the
connector) or otherwise moving the cable until the broken ends of the
conductor touch.

On the other hand, most of the cables that I bought in the late-80s/early-90s
still work fine. (they never formed permanent kinds) The problem is race-to-
the-bottom we're seeing everywhere as businesses try to squeeze every last
cent out their products. This will happen to wireless headphones eventually,
but for now they are in a honeymoon period where they are still a "new(-ish)
tech" that is experimenting with new designs. Eventually the value engineers
and must-meet-growth-targets management will get around to "optimizing" their
quality and longevity too.

~~~
blattimwind
> traditional softer rubber(?)

FWIW audio cables in consumer stores were pretty much always PVC, though, as
you like many other people discovered, there are quality plastics and cheap
plastics. The former will last quite a number of years before turning hard and
brittle, the latter won't, smells badly and probably gives you cancer for
free, too.

Speaker, microphone and guitar cables for studio / stage use often have rubber
sheathing (~neoprene), though many are just higher quality PVC.

> The newer cables also tend to lack protective stiffeners at the ends for
> protection against damaging the wires if the cables is pulled at a right
> angle to the connector.

Using the tiniest of ferrules seems to be a conscious design choice, though
incorrect material and manufacture are commonly seen as well. In any case, a
bad design that's poorly manufactured is not going to work.

As usual, non-consumer products don't have the problem, at all.

> The problem is race-to-the-bottom we're seeing everywhere as businesses try
> to squeeze every last cent out their products.

While that's certainly true, the ali/bangood-mentality also has to do with it.
"Oh look, I can get $thisThing for 2.5 $ delivered from China, which normally
costs 10 $". A compounding problem is of course, that the 10 $ store item is
the same as the 2.5 $ Ali item, so you actually need to turn to the proper
online store to get the quality matching price point.

------
kaneua
I see another reason for Apple to exclude headphone jack from iPhone. Now
third-party accessories makers can't bypass Apple's Lightning certification by
using headphone jack for data transfer. For example, Square used headphone
jack for their card reader.

~~~
reddit_clone
You may be on to something here. It might just have been a control/money
issue. Not a technical issue at all :-(

It may also be related to water proofing , eliminating another source of water
risk.

~~~
kaneua
It's definitely not a waterproofing issue. They have waterproof lightning
socket with exposed contacts, therefore they can make 3.5mm one. Apple's
rivals — Samsung and Sony both have examples of waterproof phones with 3.5mm
jack.

------
joshvm
> Audiophiles probably aren’t too keen on being unable to listen to high-
> bitrate files.

Ignoring issues of latency and connection robustness, is this a bandwidth
limitation of Bluetooth or is it that the driver/codec support isn't there? Or
is it audiophile hyperbole?

There's no technical reason why you couldn't stream lossless digital audio to
a pair of headphones, which might well have a better DAC chipset than the
phone.

~~~
zanny
Bluetooth radios generally operate at an order of magnitude lower power than
wifi or cellular radios, especially in LE mode.

Really the Bluetooth protocol is _mostly_ just a ultra low power 802.11. It
has more channels but they are thinner bands are only 1-2 Mbit (depending on
classic or LE mode).

That being said its not really a bandwidth limitation. One device can use
multiple channels and thus you can easily get, say, the 6 Mbit that DVD
quality PCM takes up.

It is more that being so low power means bluetooth gets pummeled with a lot of
inference. This isn't much of a problem if you are using one channel and
alternating to avoid hot regions but the 2.4 band is super congested. Trying
to drive constant 6+ Mbit through Bluetooth losslessly would take way more
power than most Bluetooth devices are capable of or willing to spend to
accomplish it.

~~~
superseeplus
There are codecs which make Bluetooth audio suck less, but they are a
fragmented mess. The two really popular ones are AAC and AptX. iPhones support
only AAC while Android phones might either not support either or support only
AptX. Sony has its own proprietary codec LDAC which only works with their
headphones. To make matters worse, not all headphones support both AptX and
AAC.

~~~
_emacsomancer_
Add to that the fact none of those are codecs I'm interested in. Give me
flac/opus.

------
protomyth
No, it is not a good idea. It actually is a massive pain in the butt for iPad
labs where we issue headphones to keep the students from getting distracted
with each other. Now, the new iPads are rumored to not include the headphone
jack. That is just going to be wonderful buying a bunch of adapters that can
get lost or stolen.

Also, how the heck many things do I need a charger for now? Its bad enough
they created a mouse that cannot be used during charging because of the poor
placement of the charging port. If I was to go Bluetooth with the headphones,
I need to buy a new cart with additional chargers for each headphone. Never
mind loosing the damn things or their cost.

From an accessibility point of view, I take it Apple's design team has never
heard of Talking ATM[1].

1)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_ATM](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_ATM)

------
mnm1
I've never met a Bluetooth device that connected and worked 100% of the time
like wired headphones do. $10 headphones these days sound like $100 headphones
from ten years ago. The technology has already peaked. There's no reason to
spend more or to settle for a technology like Bluetooth that fails to work on
a consistent basis. None whatsoever. I will never choose to buy a phone
without a headphone jack because of that. It's that simple. Not to mention the
low audio quality of Bluetooth. This is definitely an example of an inferior
technology being pushed out simply for profits to replace a superior one.

------
screye
Not for me. (Addressing the general industry trend)

The way I see it, taking a feature away needs to be justified with some
proportional advantage.

The parts themselves are pretty cheap, so the only argument against the port
is space. Apple did not use the space for anything useful (same battery , same
features , more expensive). I have heard water proofing as an argument, but
many manufacturers can do both & the jack is more useful than water proofing
to me.

As I see it, manufacturers took a away a relatively useful feature for nothing
in return.

The decision was very much guided by greed, and that very much irks me.

------
chairmanmow
I think so. 3.5mm wasn't always a standard, it used to be 1/4". 3.5mm is a
consumer standard, replacing it with Bluetooth makes more sense. I say this as
someone who does Pro Audio stuff, I just don't use bluetooth for that. I've
usually had to hook up a 3.5mm to 1/4" adapter for some headphones anyways. I
have a 48 channel patch bay everything's wired into. Why would I complain
about having to use a dongle to get non-latent audio for pro-purposes on my
Phone seems a little absurd given the way most other pro-equipment behaves.
And there's a dongle if people really care, and it came for free with my
phone. I'd rather use bluetooth headphones anyways for most stuff, for
convenience.

If you need pro-gear, there's usually a pro-option. Sometimes form factors
change and you need to swap out some of your gear, it happens. Anyways, 3.5mm
wasn't ever the 'pro' standard. It's a consumer level adaptation, and so is
Bluetooth. I have no problem with it.

------
qwerty456127
Absolutely no. The idea of introducing one universal connector standard itself
sounds reasonable but it still is a way ahead of time. Nothing should be
"ditched" before the new standard and its ecosystem matures (do you remember
for how long did USB co-exist with COM&LPT and for how long did ISA slots co-
exist with PCI? - that was good!). Also one port is not enough, I want to
connect my wired headphones and a power bank to my cellphone at the same time
without using any additional dongles! And at last but not at least there are
things tat are so good (with simplicity of their technology nature
contributing to this) even while being a very old invention that inventing
reasons to ditch them is either hypocrisy (aren't big corporations pushing
digital audio transfer technologies just to facilitate vendor lock-ins and
DRMs?) or onanism. Do we really need to reinvent a wheel just because it is
not patented?

------
bnastic
It’s a big red herring when someone tells you “I have high end headphones and
need hp output”, or “I record my guitar into iPhone and need a jack”.

\- if you are really an audiophile you will have at least a Dragonfly or
similar feeding your expensive cans off of USB. You would not use iPhone’s
(previous) tiny dac/amp. Also note that iPads still have a builtin DAC/amp and
that they are, in fact, really really good.

\- Same for music making on iPhone. You will have one of many audio interfaces
for iOS. I mean, come on, you are not recording guitars into your pc over a
builtin audio input, surely?

I don’t believe this whole “cornering the market” argument. I do believe
removing unnecessary hardware and making way for bigger battery/thinner phones
or whatever other benefit may come out of it.

------
pasbesoin
With the universal disappearance of the jack, I can't help thinking that there
are behind-the-scenes pressures and incentives driving it.

As in television (and so, movies on television), all analog links in the chain
of delivery are being driven out.

Even if you agree with that (and I don't), this means that simultaneously, any
and all other use cases for these analog channels are simply fucked. Too bad,
screw you.

Big entertainment, and its big dollars, monopolizing the platform for its own
benefit.

I don't know this. I just can't help suspecting it -- not just out of thin
air, though, but rather based upon what I've read about how these industries
work and advocate, in general and in other specific cases.

------
ryandrake
It was a great idea because the removal of the headphone jack serves a
lightning rod for everything anti-Apple, and drowns out other, more serious
and valid issues with their HW and SW quality. There are a lot of real
problems with their products to complain about, but all those valid complaints
are drowned out by the rage over the stupid headphone jack. It's been two
years, and people still can't get over it, and the press can't stop mentioning
it. Great for Apple, because that's the only problem that gets air time.

------
amaccuish
I think this is a false comparison. If USB-C had been better defined and
chosen by all manufacturers, we wouldn't have had a problem with replacing the
headphone jack I feel.

------
what-the-grump
Oh man, I’ve been using my 6s all this time and forgot. Just when I was
thinking about upgrading to the Xs, this thread is a reminder of why I’ve been
holding off.

May do another year with the 6s.

------
taylodl
Actually it worked out to the best for me. There’s two occasions where I use
headphones: mowing the grass and working out. In both cases the headphone wire
gets in the way and causes problems yet I was too cheap to buy a Bluetooth
headphone set. By forcing me to buy Bluetooth headphones (I didn’t buy iBuds -
I’m way too cheap for that!) Apple actually improved the quality of my life.
Even if only a somewhat minor aspect.

~~~
_emacsomancer_
I agree about those two specific circumstances. But just because you need no
headphone port to be motivated to buy bluetooth headphones isn't
justification. I have a long public transport commute where I _don 't_ want to
use bluetooth headphones for many reasons. When I'm mowing or working out, I
can use my bluetooth headphones. I get the choice.

------
skywhopper
I agree... mostly. Till the end when the author portrays the lack of a
headphone jack as a complete block to using TRS connectors. iPhones do come
with working wired headphones and at least used to include a Lightning-TRS
adapter (it can be had for $9 if not). Not ideal, no. Offensive, maybe. But
it’s a ridiculous overstatement to say that this requires users to spend
hundreds of dollars on Bluetooth replacements.

------
err4nt
These jacks come from, not the 20th century, but the 19th century! It boggles
my mind how something we've have had since the 1880s is suddenly obsolete.
There's a plethora of devices in existence manufactured over a span of decades
that all interchangeably work together, and we toss it now out for what? Do we
really believe that all devices for the next 130 years will work on the same
bluetooth protocol?

------
lawry
I do not have experience with the iPhone and Apple's Bluetooth headphones, but
I've tried a bunch of 3rd party brands with moto g and oneplus smartphones.
Sadly at home we only have 2.4Ghz for Wifi, which means it's absolutely less
than ideal to stream something over wifi and listen to it on wireless
headphones.

I'm surprised this is not a problem for the iPhone, or I've never read
anything about it yet.

------
abakker
As someone about to board a plane with my SO, one problem that would be nice
is if apple devices could do simultaneous devices connected. My iPad plus
headphone splitter is ok, but, I’m mostly on Bluetooth only headphones. If you
want to share a listen, you need wired ones. Seems like they could fix this
audio stack to allow this, or maybe we need a big upgrade to Bluetooth
hardware to allow it.

~~~
floo
Not saying that this is a proper solution for everyone, but Bose does support
listening to the same phone with two pairs of headphones. You would just have
to pair them.

I agree that this would be useful to have at the OS level though!

------
DanielBMarkham
I'll never forget when I realized people were paying for ringtones. Why the
heck would you do that? I just downloaded some and stuck them on my phone.

Then I bought Star Wars and watched it at home. VHS for the win! Then the same
frickin' movie came out on DVD. I decided to buy it. Why would I do that?
Because I was sold on the feature combination of DVDs. Then BluRay. I bought
again. Why? The movie had new features, and BluRay was more cool.

I had become those people I was laughing at with the ringtones, spending money
for stuff that either should be free or was basically worthless. I love
movies. I have a lot of movies in various formats. But re-mixes of the same
stupid movie? I'm being taken for a ride.

Now they keep the same movie, the same plot, the same hardware -- but re-make
it with currently-popular actors. Why would people pay for this....I asked
myself as I sat in the movie theater a couple of months ago.

There's less and less "new people creating new things that enriches society"
and more and more "You bought X, you'll really love X1!"

Anybody that doesn't know where headphoneless-phones is going hasn't been
paying attention. Ten years from now, when they've finally locked down DRM
audio from the seller to the actual device you listen to it on? They'll be
charging you multiple times to _listen to the same sound_.

 _Plus_ they make money on the hardware. Double bonus points for getting you
on a hardware upgrade gravy train also locked in by vendor.

------
wilsonnb3
Terrible article that, like most comments and articles about the headphone
jack, completely ignores Lightning and USB C adapters.

It’s much easier to make the case that removing the headphone jack is a huge
money grab and inconvenience if you ignore the fact that a $9 dongle _included
with your phone_ lets you listen with any pair of headphones you want.

~~~
Eric_WVGG
Possibly more annoying is that he ignores the Lightning to 3.5mm cables that
are available. Those nice expensive headphones all have replaceable cables,
you don’t even need a dongle.

[https://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Audio-Cable-Lightning-
Connecto...](https://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Audio-Cable-Lightning-
Connector/dp/B07CY1GMN9)

------
cimmanom
How much of this is due to media companies trying to eliminate analog audio
and video outputs so as to better enforce DRM?

~~~
justtopost
I suspect this is the primary motivator, and oddly far down in the discussion.

------
KozmoNau7
It was an absolutely terrible idea. I use the headphone jack on my phone every
single day, either for my high-quality earphones that I'm not in a hurry to
replace, or for plugging in to a PA or stereo at a party, to stream music.

I don't want to carry a single around, and the 3.5mm jack is _the_ standard
for analog stereo audio.

~~~
lemiffe
Not only audio, but now my selfie stick is irrelevant!

------
Jgrubb
The day I was sold on ditching the headphone jack was actually last week when
a giant wave surprised us and nearly washed my wife's (brand new) phone away
at the beach. We took it back to the house, rinsed all the sand and salt water
off under the tap and it never had a single issue.

~~~
cm2187
I believe Samsung phones are as much water-resistant while having preserved
the headphone jack.

------
fouc
I wonder if anyone with a jackless iPhone compensates by carrying an iPod nano
for listening to music with?

~~~
grvdrm
Absolutely. I’ve kept my nano for years.

------
tomcooks
Most outdoor people (7+ days charging on solar or limited electrical outlet
access) hate the idea of having to charge an extra device, when they could use
a pair of cheap headphones. Hard pass for me too, I'll stick to my cheap,
outdated tech.

------
delinka
"...Some people can only afford $20 headphones"

Have you _seen_ the prices on Apple devices?

~~~
sparkie
The main complaint is that manufacturers of budget phones are following suit,
but damaging themselves in the process because they're misguided about what
their users really want. Having android phones with 3.5/2.5mm jacks would keep
the analogue headphone industry alive, but if the whole industry moves to
bluetooth only headphones, we're worse off for it overall.

------
mcculley
I hope to never use wired headphones ever again and I appreciate my phone
being waterproof. I know that some people like wired headphones, but that is
no reason to think Apple ditched that connector only for profit reasons.

------
paul7986
Not for me as wireless headphones are quickly lost and cost more then wired
which were less then 10 bucks. If you lose/lost them not a huge deal you'll
can easily afford another pair.

------
konart
I'm still waiting for a decent pair of bt earplugs that wouldn't cost me a
fortune. Still have to use Sony SBH50 + Marshall Mode EQ as a half-way
solution.

Wired wirelessness.

------
teknico
Nope. Nor is grey text.

------
8bitsrule
It's even dumber than when Apple ditched the serial port, dooming a whole
generation of fine hardware to obsolescence.

Just another marketing win, engineering loss.

------
talltimtom
What the people who keep complaining about this don’t realize and will never
realize is that there are tons of users who prefer the new Jack and will never
have any issues with it at all. You keep arguing about this “fiasco” but in
reality Apple is fine, the majority of users are happy and this is all just an
imagined issue like when they introduced the iPhone which would fail because
it was just an iPod with a phone in it, or the touchscreen that would never be
able to compete with tactile keyboards or the tablet that didn’t even run a
proper desktop operating system.

------
swingline-747
It's possible to make an iPhone 6S 16 GiB into 256 GiB with a chip programmer
and swapping BGA chips. Cost for the chip is around $50 USD.

------
xte
No. Simply because it have many use, from music play with external stereo to
mobile-POS (credit card payment via audio/dummy modem) etc.

------
johnchristopher
The headphone jack of every portable devices I ever owned have all broken at
some points.

I'd rather have Bluetooth everywhere with USB as a backup now.

------
0xakhil
Some 3rd party accessories used 3.5mm jack to transfer data without MFI chip.
Maybe Apple didnt like that for some reason. Just a thought.

------
hayksaakian
Does anyone truly believe they removed the headphone jack for any reason other
than to sell more dongles and more wireless headphones?

~~~
evil-olive
Yes. I've worked on phones in the past (Amazon's ill-fated Fire Phone) and
there was no pressure that I perceived to sell more third-party accessories.
There was, however, a very tangible pressure to make the phone thinner and
lighter, and at the same time to pack it full of more shiny-seeming software
features.

It's entirely conceivable, based on my experience, that removal of the
headphone jack is attributable to ignorance and not to malice.

~~~
smegger001
Does anyone actually want it thinner and lighter or is that just an assumption
we have had and never questioned? I mean most people end up putting their
device in a case anyway to protect it already. They are to structurally flimsy
and fragile. Hell otterbox is valued at 2.5 billion and all they sell are
thick bulky phone cases. A inch thick phone would be fine and have more room
for battery, storage, etc, etc, etc... and still have room to have a sturdy
case and most people wouldn't care.

~~~
wmeredith
Yes. I think this a “people want a faster horse” situation. The people who
don’t want phones to go thinner and wireless everything aren’t thinking it
through fully. I miss the head phone jack on my phone right now, I’d like
longer battery life... but there is a future where a smartphone is the size of
a credit card, is waterPROOF, and never plugs into anything ever. If you think
it’s not possible, consider that the chips in each AirPod are more powerful
than the one in the first iPhone.

I am temporarily annoyed with the audio jack removal, but I get it. It’s a
“burn the boats” type strategy of pushing for the wireless, portless future.

------
atomical
I use USB + Dragonfly. The obsession with the headphone jack is strange
because the audio isn't very good.

------
tobyhinloopen
Was using light text on a bright background a good idea?

No.

~~~
jwilk
I added this to my Firefox's userContent.css:

    
    
      @-moz-document domain(soundguys.com)
      {
        #sticky-bar {
          position: absolute !important;
        }
        p, div {
          color: initial !important;
        }
        body {
          text-shadow: initial !important;
        }
      }

~~~
mrob
I use Firefox's Reader View to fix low contrast text. You need to edit
userContent.css to get the full contrast:

    
    
        @-moz-document url-prefix("about:reader") {
        body {
          background-color: #FFFFFF !important;
          color: #000000 !important;
          }
        }
    

If Reader View doesn't work, it's usually easy to find the font color CSS in
the Web Developer tools.

------
shmerl
It surely was a bad idea. A good idea is to ditch handsets which ditched a
headphone jack.

------
rad_gruchalski
I’m using an iphone 8 for the last 9 months. Not missing the jack at all.

~~~
rad_gruchalski
Thanks for downvotes. Explain.

~~~
rad_gruchalski
Oh yeah, someone got really upset now. Explain instead of clicking this stupid
downvote button.

------
microtherion
Author must have been heartbroken when cell phones started removing VGA ports.

------
CosmicShadow
No.

------
helpfulTroll
There are a few reasons it was a terrible idea:

    
    
      - You can't take lightning headphones 
        and use them as headphones in all 
        lightning ports.
    
      - You can't take lightning headphones
        and use them on any other Apple 
        product other then modern, premium 
        iPhones.
    
      - It doesn't enable compatibility with 
        other new Apple products. In fact, it
        hinders compatibility with USB-C ports
        in newer Apple laptops. *What?*
    
      - If Apple went all-in on USB-C with 
        laptops, the lightning port on new
        iPhones feels like either an anachronism
        or accentuates the lock-in attempt.
    
      - Bluetooth really isn't very good, not
        at a level that guarantees perfect,
        continuous audio streams. It's not 
        an ideal step up from a good, durable wire.
    
      - Air pods and  other headphone upgrades
        are double disposable, in that, not only
        are they particularly expensive options,
        but easily lost, stolen or destroyed.
        Laundry and drop hazards, above and beyond 
        theft, basically add constant anxiety to 
        the total cost of ownership for air pods 
        in particular.
    
      - General inconvenience of replacement 
        forces odd work-around strategies for 
        times when you can't find your headphones.
        If you're running late, and you lost them
        in the couch cushions or under the bed, 
        what are your options?
    

I can think of a number of additional diminishingly valuable what-ifs, but you
get the point. Life always turns out better with the widely adopted
standardized options, since headphones take on the primary expendable
accessory, and the alternatives are hemmed in, such that they're always worse.

But now what? It's just going to be this irritating thing, until an excuse
lets Apple back down while saving face.

Whatever.

------
obviously1999
try the iphone 5 or SE

------
brian-armstrong
It is painfully obvious that Apple removed the jack not because it was the
right choice but because it lets them sell more accessories. Discussions about
this choice should be framed in that perspective. It was a user hostile
decision.

------
tlarkworthy
My wife dropped her phone down the toilet. It survived! So the no Jack was a
big win for her.

The article is missing that very reasonable use case for no Jack.

~~~
pgo
There is no correlation in being waterproof and not having a headphone jack.
Several phones have both

~~~
tlarkworthy
It's one of of the quoted reasons at least:
[https://www.macrumors.com/2016/09/07/apple-explains-
headphon...](https://www.macrumors.com/2016/09/07/apple-explains-headphone-
jack-removal/)

------
cmiles74
The case made by the article strikes me as surprisingly clear: 50% of dollars
spent on wireless headphones we're going to Apple and they wanted that
percentage to grow larger. Forcing their customers to buy wireless headphones
directly increased the amount of money Apple makes and has allowed them to
dominate another product segment.

This argument about the quality of the headphones seems very much beside the
point. For those purchasing these newer smart phones, there is only one type
of headphones that work. Clearly that is the one they will buy.

------
megakwood
To paraphrase Doc Brown, "Where we're going, we don't need headphone jacks"

Airpods are awesome, and they'll only get better. A cord running to your
pocket is seriously a thing of the past, and all these posts will age
terribly. Just like the serial port ones, the floppy ones, the cd rom ones...

And for all this noise, what I can't for the life of my understand is why
these people can't just use a god damn adapter. They make high quality DAC
ones, too. Just leave it attached to your headphones. What's the damn problem?
The rest of us get a better, thinner phone.

~~~
bambax
Did you read peapicker's comment before posting your own? (It's older by an
hour). Some people need wired headphones and if the port is used for something
else then they can't.

Also it's completely untrue that the iPhone is "thinner" without a headphone
jack; this guy added a jack to an iPhone 7 without external modification:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utfbE3_uAMA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utfbE3_uAMA)

The video has over 6M views.

Apple doesn't care much about their users -- but it's hard to blame them,
since said users are apparently happy with it.

~~~
AnthonBerg
Is the modified phone as waterproof as before?

~~~
justtopost
I assume not, but a factory designed one would be. Several of my phones are
waterproof and have 3.5mm plugs.

~~~
AnthonBerg
I would so very much like to know how the design and engineering analysis was.
For the original.

From my limited knowledge it certainly seems _easier_ to make it waterproof
without a headphone jack.

