

A painful Apple recall process - sklivvz1971
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/28613587/apple_letter.html

======
gilgoomesh
> a product recall which is your fault in the first place

First: it's not a mandatory recall. You didn't need to replace the iMac hard
drive.

Second: Western Digital hard drive failures are not directly Apple's fault.
Apple package the product but it's only indirectly their fault -- Western
Digital screwed up here.

Third: The affected products are all past their warranty date. Apple are being
better-than-average by offering this recall at all.

Does this makes Apple look like a "dysfunctional, hideous and dystopian
company"? Not in my opinion. In fact, you sound like you've gone completely
off into ridiculous hyperbole-land.

> I am surely able to do it, considering the poor skill level of your staff.
> You should offer this as an option.

You don't have any backups of your hard drive (which is why the easy options
all disappointed you) but you think you're skilled enough to replace an iMac
hard drive? Do you have a full set of Torx screwdrivers and suction cups?
Maybe you should sell your Torx screwdrivers and buy a backup drive.

~~~
sklivvz1971
A part from the fact it's Seagate, they provide the product as-is and they
make the choice of what's inside it. Therefore they _are_ responsible for it.

Secondly, I do have backups. I didn't have a _last-minute_ backup. The kind of
backup you do right before shutting down and changing a hard drive. What makes
you think I can't do it myself? I've build my own PCs since I was a kid... :-)

~~~
snowwrestler
I don't know which model of iMac you have, but on the recent ones, replacing
the HD requires removing the glass pane on the front, which is a very tricky
operation. The pane is very thin and very large, which means if the force is
applied unevenly, it can crack. Apple techs have a stiff aluminum frame with
suction cups that they attach to the glass, then they use that to pull the
glass off.

~~~
jrabone
Regardless of all the other issues here, that is a triumph of form over
function. Consumer hard drives are not noted for their reliability (or they'd
come with 5 year warranty like the enterprise version).

~~~
sbuk
The function of an iMac isn't to remove and replace hard disk drives.

------
charliesome
> _I wonder what would Steve Jobs say about this quality of support._

Every time Apple does something that someone doesn't like, everyone has a
bitch and a whine about how that'd never happen with Steve around.

Get over yourselves. Sure it would. Apple haven't all of a sudden decided "oh
look Steve is dead, we can be as terrible as we like now."

~~~
mhd
Yeah, Apple never was the pinnacle of support, and that wasn't any different
when Jobs was at the helm. I did a short stint as a hotline supporter, so for
a change I actually know what I'm talking about… The products on average were
quite good and the process was friendly enough, which in addition to the RDF
got Apple some good marks regarding customer support, but the big competitors
(HP, Dell, IBM) usually had better warranty handling, especially for desktop
products (pickup etc.). And Apple had a hard time with the increased warranty
periods enforced by European countries (which is still part of their excuse
why their products are that much more expensive over there).

It's not like Steve personally delivered your fixed product with a ribbon
'round it back in the days.

------
hieronymusN
I have two 27" iMacs under this recall and I live in Brooklyn. I simply called
Apple and told them it would not be possible to transport these iMacs to a
store in Manhattan for servicing as I do not own a car (which I don't). They
sent a service person to my house to do the drive swap. The tech was a 3rd
party contractor and highly knowledgeable. We had a good discussion about the
engineering in the iMacs as well as the current state of tech.

In short, I called Apple and politely walked through the issues and they did
not hesitate to help me out, even after noting that I lived geographically
close to many Apple stores (Grand Central, 5th Ave, etc), but also
acknowledged the difficulties in actually getting to them.

~~~
protomyth
We got a list of our machines, called Apple, and a tech did the work. Low
pain.

I have had the best luck with Apple and IBM since they send techs. HP (which
has some sort of hard drive problem with the netbooks Verizon is selling) is a
call / RMA / Ship company. Acers were just eat the cost when they fail.

~~~
hieronymusN
Agreed. Apple has replaced two logic boards in an old MBP (one for bad video
card and one for fried firmware), the drives in my iMacs and swapped out a
faulty power supply for an old Mini. I've found that if you're polite and
competent the Geniuses will help you out. Doing some preemptive research and
work like making sure you have backups, etc also goes a long way to ensuring a
smooth experience.

------
experiment0
I used to be an Apple store employee in the Family room (where the devices get
fixed). In fact I used to work as the exact employee who mainly checked people
in for their appointment. The store I worked in had an extremely high volume
of people coming in for repairs. Our store policy was, if the person had
missed their entire appointment (E.g. 15 minutes late for mac appointments and
10 minutes late for mobile) then they would be turned away, except for in
exceptional circumstances (multiple repairs etc).

We reserved some appointments each day for "walk-ins" and these became
available every hour, however they were immediately snapped up within 5
minutes of become available.

My point is that, this is a reservation, much like an eye checkup or dentist
appointment. If you miss your reservation, that is your responsibility and not
ours to try and fit you in. The booking process is explicit in reminding you
not to be late.

If the OP genuinely did get turned away for being 5 minutes late, then that is
quite harsh, however I think its more likely that he missed his allotted
appointment time and in that case it is 100% his fault for not making it. And
oh yeah bringing up the Steve Jobs point is so irrelevant and is just
hyperbole.

The recall itself is another matter which IS Apple's responsibility and
probably should have been handled better.

~~~
st3fan
> If the OP genuinely did get turned away for being 5 minutes late, then that
> is quite harsh

He was not turned away. He wrote:

 _Also — I arrived at 12:20, wholly 5 minutes late. The first thing the
“genius” told me is that I was late and that my appointment was forfeit. When
I told him it was for the HD replacement, he “magically” found some time for
me._

So yes, he did not show up on time but was helped anyway. I think that is
great service and not something to "magically" complain about.

------
kordless
I'm getting a little bored with all these negative postings. I don't need to
get all torqued off at Apple just because some guy had problems getting his
computer fixed by them.

I've had good experiences with Apple, and I've had horrible experiences with
them. The bad bits usually correpond to me being in a foul mood or being short
tempered when I'm talking to them. That, interestingly enough, correlates with
my desire to tell everyone and their dog about how bad it was while I was
dealing with them.

[http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/24/your-money/why-people-
reme...](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/24/your-money/why-people-remember-
negative-events-more-than-positive-ones.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0)

Let's all take a moment to be grateful we live in such wonderful times.
Technology like Apple makes is awesome, it works more of the time than it
doesn't, and yet it does not define who we are at our cores. You are alive and
human - take the time to go out and smell the fresh air, talk to a stranger
and find the things that bring you joy.

And then share the good bits with us on HN! :)

------
swombat
That sounds like a pretty dismal support experience. My own experience is that
I've had good interactions with apple support, but mainly because I knew what
I wanted and I was willing to push the "I'm not happy" button, which I
understand is hard wired into all Apple Geniused at the factory in China, and
automatically flicks them into "maximum helpfulness mode". But if you don't
know about the magic button, it can be a bit tricky, I guess!...

This is certainly something Apple should look into. Their main customer base
is the mass market of tech-unsavvy consumers, people like my parents, who
don't know how to find that button and believe, rightly, that Apple stores are
full of condescending youngsters who treat them like idiots and give them bad
advice.

~~~
rdl
The Apple Stores in the Bay Area are great, in my experience, if you schedule
an appointment, show up on time, and are pretty clearly competent -- "I've
already backed up this machine, these are the specific symptoms, ...". "I'm a
developer" also helps. The Geniuses have wide latitude in what they can do, so
being friendly, polite, and easy for them to serve goes a long way -- I've
gotten a MBP3,1 fully replaced, 3 replacements of my new iPhone 5 in the days
after launch to solve a not-fully-understood-by-Apple WPA2+AES wifi problem,
fixing machines where I'd replaced the HDD+ODD with SSD (but the problem was
unrelated), etc.

(I really should just do the $300 certification to become an AASP so I can fix
my own stuff with Apple-provided parts, though.)

That said, their tier-1 phone support is horrible. Doing whatever is possible
to get bumped to 2/3 as soon as possible is essential. (it's all contracted
out, actually). I wish there were an easy way to pay a one-time or annual fee
to get bumped automatically to tier 2/3.

------
rdl
Replacing the hard drive on an iMac is about as difficult as replacing the LCD
panel on a laptop. Not impossible, but does require removing a large piece of
glass with multiple suction cups, etc. I don't think self-repair would be a
great choice in this case, at least as a standard option.

------
taylodl
Next time buy your computer at Best Buy and see how that goes for you.

Not to be too terribly snarky hopefully you've learned some valuable lessons
here in dealing with Apple. You should have expected tech support to have
regurgitated the contents of the email. The only reason you would have had for
calling them is finding the name of the 3rd party company that would be fixing
your computer and how to go about arranging that service.

The second thing you've learned is the Apple geniuses aren't, well, geniuses.
They're simply more knowledgeable than average, which takes care of 80% of the
problems a typical customer will experience. The important thing to know is
they're not doing the work. And, hello, since this was a general recall there
were probably a boatload of machines "upstairs" waiting to be repaired. They
told you 2 weeks because they prefer to under promise and over deliver and
have your machine back to you in a few days.

I know Apple can do seemingly amazing things, but good grief you need to have
realistic expectations.

~~~
st3fan
> The second thing you've learned is the Apple geniuses aren't, well, geniuses

Sorry, but how did you come to that conclusion? They helped him correctly
right?

The procedure for a recall is very simple: you bring your mac and they take it
in and you get it back when they have replaced the drive.

The OP made things more complicated by not planning ahead and backing up his
drive. Even though the email clearly states that you need to backup your Mac
before you bring it in. He did not. So what did he expect? A free external 1TB
drive? A magic backup that happened in a few minutes?

It is the OP that did not do the right thing by coming in late and not being
prepared.

Stop blaming Apple support.

~~~
sklivvz1971
I expected them to be able to do `dd /old-hd /new-hd` but that was too hard.

~~~
sbuk
No backups? That's _entirely_ your own fault, especially with Time Machine
being stupefyingly simple to use.

------
SurfScore
Apple is rather polarizing in this regard. For every one of these nightmare
stories that you hear, there's always one about someone getting their 5-year-
old laptop replaced for a brand new one for free. I guess the human element
comes into play here more than anything else.

------
vm
I have never seen this blog format - html uploaded and shared on Dropbox. What
are the benefits? Anonymity?

It seems that many blog for publicity or driving traffic (both valid reasons),
which leads to using simple publishing tools (tumblr, svtble, weebly, etc),
custom domains, links to the author's other content, a personal profile, and
an overall media-centric approach. Curious why the OP went with this approach!

~~~
sklivvz1971
I am the OP, and I don't normally blog. This format seemed to be the simplest
solution.

~~~
JagMicker
I think you are complaining too much. You should realize that the majority of
Apple customers are not technically-inclined, so the support procedures will
be geard towards them. Seeing as how you are smart enough to read and submit
articles to HN, you should know to expect these kinds of things when dealing
with _any_ kind of tech. support (let alone, a drive replacement). You should
have already backed-up your data and wiped the drive before going to the Apple
store. You submit articles to HN and you expect (and trust) Apple to move your
data from one drive to another?! Come on, man...You should know better... And
posting stuff like this just makes you look bad.

------
st3fan
Wow that is a lot of complaining about nothing.

Getting an email about a recall is painful? You think the vendor posting a
recall notification in a newspaper works better? Or did you expect a personal
phone call? Really, what is the problem?

Why did you call tech support? This is a recall, not something that can be
fixed over the phone. You should have followed the first advice to make an
appointment.

And really, what is the problem of having to make an appointment for the
Genius bar? Have you ever been in an Apple Store recently? It is crazy busy.
You _want_ an appointment.

I've done this three times now, including for an iMac that needed something
fixed. You make an appointment through their web site, show up on time, things
get fixed right away or they take your hardware in. Both times it worked
really well. I have nothing good to say about Apple support.

Nothing but complaining going on here. Move on.

------
grandalf
I once owned a PowerBook 5300 and at the time Apple's tech support process was
horrible, and the company didn't stand behind its products.

It took me years to be willing to buy another Apple product, which was an iPad
Shuffle. Turns out I really liked that product, and Apple had finally started
to fix its tech support process.

I now own tons of Apple products, including several macs, an Apple TV, iPhone,
iPad, etc. My last stop by the Genius bar resulted in no questions asked
replacement of a few pieces of Apple gear that had broken (headphones, a
bluetooth keyboard). I was extremely impressed.

A recall is a different thing, since it is ultimately a decision about the
cost of the recall vs the harm to the brand of not doing the recall... this
leads to the desire to have the recall be as inexpensive as possible.

Nonetheless, I hope this isn't a sign that Apple is reverting to its old ways.

------
reiichiroh
Why is it unreasonable to expect the customer to buy their own hard drive and
back up their own data?

~~~
nanodeath
I think because this was part of a product recall. Apple says "hey, we screwed
up, we need to replace your hard drive", so you'd think they'd provide the new
one and do the back up themselves, instead of "we screwed up, you should drop
$100 to fix the situation we put you in".

~~~
NoPiece
He really should have been backing up his own data anyway. And if you really
have important data on your computer, why would you send it off to strangers
to back up anyway? I'd format the drive and zero it out before returning it.

~~~
sklivvz1971
I do, but you still need to back up the last days or so right before replacing
the drive. That is also why I didn't want to buy a HDD - I already have a back
up solution.

~~~
reiichiroh
That's not Apple's responsibility.

------
isa
Yikes, customer service is everything. Hope you've received What's due to you.

------
htrees
You're coming across as a spoiled customer. An "if Steve Jobs were" statement,
really? Sometimes I fail to understand why Apple consumers feel so entitled. I
think it's more acceptable for less technically-inclined consumers to feel
like Apple should be kissing their feet, but I expect that tech people (who
read and submit to HN, at least) know better than to put quotation marks
around Apple's Genius employees.

I mean, I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but you could've inflicted less
pain on yourself by doing your own last-minute backup on the first indication
that it was difficult to get a hold of Apple Support. I'm sure you have your
reasons why you chose not to, but dude you waited two weeks. In that window,
you could have backed up your drive so that you'd be free of worries when
Apple finally comes around to replacing your hard drive!

