

Ask HN: From contractor to permanent - anpr

I currently work at a Fortune 500 software company in the UK doing a lot of greenfield software development.<p>Lately I have been considering leaving my permanent role and moving into contracting, mainly due to substantially higher net salaries.<p>My concern however is; should I do this for a few years, and then wish to move back into a permanent role at companies such as MS&#x2F;GOOGL&#x2F;FB - would it be frown upon? In other words, do companies prefer to hire people that have been working steadily in a code base for prolonged periods of time?<p>Thanks!
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seanrrwilkins
I've been back and forth as an FTE and contractor for the past five years, and
it's been nothing but beneficial. I use the contracting to gain a variety of
experiences with different companies and screen them over time to evaluate
whether I want to work with them full time.

The variety of experience is key as you'll hone your problem solving skills in
a more valuable way than in your F500 gig. You're forced to get scrappier and
deliver consistently in a tighter timelines. It just forces you to be better.

And as a programmer the world is your oyster these days. Do the work to zero
in on your specific skillset and language/product focus so you can better
target you outreach.

Starting with an agency can be easy, but they'll take 20-30% and limit your
opportunity for a direct relationship with that client. You could ease into
this with a few months of side work while you keep the safe F500 job. Build a
couple clients in your portfolio and break out when your personal pipeline
equals, or beats your current salary.

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fecak
I think you'll find your instincts on this one are a bit off. These days,
companies seem to value some variety over stagnating at one company or on one
project. Hiring managers like to see people with a variety of accomplishments,
and that can be pretty easy to demonstrate if your contracting projects are
interesting and give you the ability to see the task all the way through.

When you are comparing money from contract to permanent, keep in mind there
may be lots of hidden costs. I can't speak for the UK, but in the US
contractors need to be thoughtful of taxes (and the cost of having your
returns done if you can't do them yourself), health insurance, PTO
(contractors are only paid for the hours they work), insurance,
retirement/401k, etc.

Be sure to do the math.

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anpr
Thanks, that makes perfect sense. I guess my worries came from the fact that
in my current company I don't know of any of the 100s permanent devs that came
from a contracting background, so I sort of raised flags for me. That could
possibly be because contractors dont often go back to permanent roles, rather
than them being undesirable for a permanent position.

Really good point on the Math's side of the business. I am based in the UK,
hence things like Health and Dental and very good and free, therefore no need
for costly private insurance. Pensions, the same, although I would make
arrangements myself to contribute to it privately also. Taxes and other
deductions, I plan to hire a good accountant that can both ensure I have all
my affairs in order as well as look after my financial interests.
PTO/Instability is the only true financial downside I can see, however, for
the latter (at least in UK) even if you are a contractor they need to give you
1-2weeks pay should they wish to terminate the contract early - which should
keep me afloat while finding new work.

All that being said, I think the main difference between US and UK when it
comes to permanent salaries is that the US has much higher base in average
rates than when compared to the UK. Not to mention the buying power of that
salary is order of magnitudes higher than over here. Therefore in a way, it
seems more unlikely (if I were to be over there) to do contracting when
balancing the pro's and con's of both options.

Thanks again for your words, and advice.

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cik
The reality is that it depends on the narrative, teh story that you have. It's
very easy to explain why you chose consulting (other than money), and have a
narrative that resonates. I've found that consulting actually results in
exposure to more varied problems, technologies, and solutions - so I'm not
nearly as pigeonholed.

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anpr
Thanks that's good validation.

I assume from your comment you must be a Contractor, can I ask how do you find
it?

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cik
You're welcome to - I love it. I've never been happier. Like everything else
there are pluses and minus, but I've found that professionally, I've been able
to meet my goals in a way I never could as part of an organization. In fact,
clients find me more valuable, because they know that I'm in to get things
done, done solidly, and done forever.

Interestingly enough, I also feel as if I'm a key member of every team I join.
I don't do the loan gun in the basement thing, which is probably a key part of
it.

~~~
anpr
That's so encouraging thanks man!

If I could abuse your kindness, I hope you dont mind - could I ask what you
average contract length are? What is the average period it takes you between
finishing a contract and finding a new role?

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kwasbob
When you say a substantial increase, how much of an increase is that?. And
also, are you considering other expenses/losses such as accountants, pensions,
etc, etc

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anpr
My current package is along the following; 45k, 2k bonus, pension, private
health, private dental, some training, and perks (gym, subsidised food, etc).

Regarding the pro's and con's in terms of benefits yes, I am considering them,
and still a substantial net salary increase (2x)

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loumf
No.

There is a world-wide shortage of competent programmers, and companies are
starting to realize that irrelevant biases are hurting them.

~~~
anpr
Fair point

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chippy
what matters is interest, passion, maturity and experience, not length of time
in one place.

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anpr
>> experience

Good point! And that's my concern (eg. Broad = Contracting Vs. Depth =
Permanent)

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pdhanda
What is your background?

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anpr
I'm 25, strong academic background (BSc + MSc).

4 years professional experience at the same company, currently a Senior Dev.

In my current role I do a lot of greenfield development, machine learning, big
data stuff and working with Open Source technologies.

~~~
cpncrunch
I was in your position back in 1997 and I went into contracting in the UK. It
worked out great for me, and I would definitely recommend it. I found it very
easy to get work through jobserve.com. In fact once I'd done a few contracts,
I built up networks of other contractors and recruitment agencies who gave me
tips about upcoming contracts.

You just need to set up a ltd company and manage your own
payroll/accounts/pension and then find an accountant to do your end of year
accounts. Or you can pay an accountant to do it all for you (but it will cost
more). I found it difficult getting a reliable accountant in the UK - every
single one of them were late preparing my accounts.

As long as you don't mind moving to a new company every 6-12 months and
working on potentially boring projects, it is a great experience. The money is
great in the UK, and the work is generally relatively easy. I eventually got
fed up with mind-numbingly boring projects and sitting with nothing to do most
of the time (I think I work too fast), and eventually ditched it and worked
full-time on my own startups.

I would recommend waiting until you get your first contract before quitting
your job (that's what I did). Some want you to start immediately, while others
will let you wait a month to give your notice.

~~~
pdhanda
What would you say a realistic rate is for a contractor?

Also, would you suggest charging per hour or day?

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cpncrunch
These kind of long-term contracts pay the 'market rate'. Back around 2000 the
market rate was about 30-40GBP/hr or about 300GBP/day, or higher in the city.
Although I haven't done any contracting in the UK for quite a while, I do
occasionally look at the contracts out there and the rates seem to be about
the same these days. Just go to jobserve.com and you'll see.

Right now I live in Canada and charge US$100/hr for short term contracts (up
to a few days), although normally I quote fixed-price and it works out roughly
$100/hr or a bit higher. This is mostly for customizing my own product to a
customer's requirements.

