
The Fifth problem: math and anti-Semitism in the Soviet Union - cup
http://www.newcriterion.com/articles.cfm/The-Fifth-problem--math---anti-Semitism-in-the-Soviet-Union-7446
======
patio11
I almost prefer honest, outright, mathematically incontradictable racism to
the American variety, where considerations favoring a diverse student body
counsel holistic evaluation of candidates such that a Goldberg or Tanaka
might, despite being a superior student of math, might be less the student the
university needs than certain other students

~~~
reader5000
Holistic evaluation is legitimate. I'm not sure why people think raw SAT is
all that should matter.

Universities basically function to stamp kids as "qualified for the middle
class". Inasmuch as the USA is increasingly multicultural, it cannot have its
university system exclude entire races from the middle class simply because
they on average score X points less on the SAT. That's not politically
tenable.

The underlying problem here is growing population and not proportionally
growing seats at brand-name universities. There is really no reason that e.g.
Harvard can only produce X number of "Harvard degrees" per year. I realize
scarcity is part of its value, but it can still increase production and remain
"proportionally scarce".

I totally think that admissions councils should strip ethnicity data when
considering individual applications (versus the demographics as a whole). But
I also think doing so would still result in "discriminatory results" where say
the Asian kid with perfect SAT and facility at piano and violin is rejected in
favor of the Black kid with a hundred points less than perfect SAT but wrote
an eloquent personal statement on how he taught a Kenyan village how to code
(or whatever).

I don't really like the assumption that SAT should be the sole determination
in admissions.

~~~
yummyfajitas
_Holistic evaluation is legitimate. I'm not sure why people think raw SAT is
all that should matter._

You don't need to use strictly SAT to have an objective system in which racism
is honest. Before Grutter, that's exactly what U-Mich did.

They gave you points: 20xGPA + SAT/100 + 1 for a good essay + 1-5 for
extracurriculars + etc + 20 if black + 5 if woman in engineering, man in
nursing.

They only dropped this system after the supreme court said they couldn't use
objective systems and be racist at the same time.

[edit: Fixed numbers, here is the actual sheet: <http://www.cir-
usa.org/Images/mich_index.gif> ]

~~~
polymatter
Wait, so they had a choice between using an objective system and being racist
and they dropped the objective system?

~~~
aidenn0
If they had stopped accounting for race, the number of black students would
have dropped greatly. I remember that court decision, and it made absolutely
no sense, it was something like "You can consider race as a factor, but it
can't be the deciding factor for picking a student" which is nonsensical to
anyone who has even a basic grasp of math.

------
yen223
This, right here, is an excellent example of why institutionalized racism is a
terrible thing. In any other situation, universities would be clamoring to
have a student of such calibre study at their institution. But because this
man was, heaven forbid, a _Jew_ , they simply couldn't take him in.

This comment is mostly pointed at my home country of Malaysia, where "special
rights" of members of a certain racial group is _enshrined in our freakin
constitution!_ [0]

[0]:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Malaysia#Articl...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Malaysia#Article_153_-_Special_Position_of_Bumiputras_and_Legitimate_Interests_of_Other_Communities)

~~~
edanm
I think there's a good case to be made that the problem with institutionalized
racism is terrible _not_ just because society loses out on a great
mathematician, but rather, because it hurts individuals by discriminating
against them.

Just because he turned out to be a great mathematician doesn't make his story
any more painful or wrong.

~~~
yen223
You are absolutely correct. People absolutely do get hurt when they are
discriminated against. As a second-class citizen in my country, I truly
understand this.

The point I was trying to make was that the people _doing_ the discriminating
also get hurt in the process, thanks to lost opportunities such as the loss of
this mathematician. There's really no benefit whatsoever to promoting
irrational discrimination such as racism.

------
cma
Harvard penalized Jews in admissions here in the early 20th century by various
means, and continues the sick practice today with Asians.

~~~
yen223
This is the first I've heard of this. How does Harvard penalize Asians?

~~~
anateus
Several admissions officers at Ivy league universities have admitted that
because they get so many applications of similar-profile asian-americans (high
grades, similar extracuriculars) they hold them to a "higher standard" than
similarly-achieving non-asians. This is justified in the name of diversity.

~~~
doctorpangloss
Are Ivy League universities the only ones a student can apply to for a
specific program?

Do Ivy League universities have to admit anyone if they don't want to?

Do students even have only one choice of public discounted universities?

The experience seems pretty distinct.

~~~
jychang
"Don't go to Moscow State University, go to Moscow Institute of Oil and Gas.
They have an Applied Math program too!"

You are implying racism just as the article.

~~~
siganakis
He wanted to study "pure" maths, not applied:

"Moscow had many schools, but there was only one place to study pure math:
Moscow State University, known by its Russian abbreviation MGU, Moskovskiy
Gosudarstvenny Universitet. Its famous Mekh-Mat, the Department of Mechanics
and Mathematics, was the flagship mathematics program of the USSR. Since I
wanted to study pure math, I had no choice but to apply there."

~~~
jychang
Ok, let's say the option was between 2 pure math schools, where one was much
better than the other. My point still stands.

------
PRJIUS
As a preamble there most definitely existed anti-semitism in Soviet Union. I
am a Russian living in the US with Jewish family in Russia. This is a throw
away account.

With that said, stories of anti-semitism told by Russian Jews in US should not
be taken at face value. These folks are subject to a very strong selection
bias. Most of them came to the US as refugees who were recognized by the US
State Department as being discriminated against for being Jewish in
USSR/Russia. Secondly they have interest in maintaining the story anti-
seminitism because it validates their narrative and could potentially help
their relatives immigrate to the US.

Additionally many stories of anti-semitism that I heard were something a non-
jew would experience as well but attributed to anti-semitism. As a personal
example, I was at first denied admission to a specialized school in very late
Soviet period. They eventually let me in because my mother found out that I
had the highest score on the entrance exam of any one. Their excuse was that
they had to let the kids who were in the paid summer program at the school
first and now the class was full. A Jewish kid's parents would have been told
they already have too many Jews in the advanced program. Both cases are just
the admissions persons asking for a bribe.

------
lini
About a year ago I read a paper that listed a number of those "Jewish
Problems" (ambiguous or hard problems given at entrance exams). For those
interested - <http://arxiv.org/abs/1110.1556>

~~~
praptak
They were more than just hard. They were specifically picked for being
solvable using relatively easy tools (so as not to give basis for appeal) with
solutions being extremely hard to figure out.

------
doctorpangloss
My mom and dad faced identical problems in the late 70s. I would urge no
simple comparisons between elite private U.S. university admissions in 2012
and public Soviet Union university admissions throughout the century.

The experience of Jews in the Soviet Union is substantially distinct from the
experience of nonwhites in the contemporary United States.

Remember: If Harvard wants to, it doesn't have to admit anyone at all. There
are lots of universities in America, in fact lots of best ones. There was only
one MGU.

~~~
barry-cotter
There's only one Harvard. It's the most prestigious undergraduate university
on Earth.

~~~
gadders
Apart from Oxford and Cambridge.

~~~
barry-cotter
Hey, I'd prefer to live, study at, or work at Oxford too, or Cambridge, but
there is actually only one Harvard. The first sentence of my post is true and
was responding to its parent post saying there's only one MSU.

Harvard is definitely the most prestigious university in the US, just as
Oxford is definitely the most prestigious university in the UK. Please noye I
said nothing anout quality of education.

~~~
gadders
Yeah, I didn't mean one was better than the other, just that any of them on
your CV would look equally good.

There are probably European and Asian equivalents, (Sorbonne?) but I have no
idea what they would be.

~~~
barry-cotter
In China, Peking, Tsinghua, Fudan are all in the top 5. Not as prestigious as
your kid getting into HYPS, or many other foreign universities. For France
there are the Grandes Ecoles like Sciences Pos or Ecole des Mines. The
Sorbonne is a normal public university, of normal selectivity, with no way of
attracting anything but normal academics. The German and Italian systems have
no equivalent of the Grandes Ecoles. There are good departments but no good
universities.

------
tlogan
As far as know from my Russian friends raise of anti-Semitism in the Soviet
Union started in late 1970s / early 1980s.

Is that correct? Does anybody know why? Was it because of renewal of Russian
nationalism?

~~~
zalew
It started way before WW2 with Stalin's propaganda against Trocki. It rose
once again after WW2 on political grounds when Stalin saw the birth of Israel
as a threat that the vast jew population now having its own nation (and
collaborating with the US) will undermine the integrity of the country.
Contrary to Hitler's vision, Stalin's xenophobia wasn't based directly on
ethnic grounds per se, it were delusions of a tyrant who slaughters its own
people wherever and whenever he sees any political threat. The more modern
antisemitic propaganda supposedly appeared under Putin's conflict with
Jelcyn's oligarchs.

It won't make you feel better, but although anti-semitism is the most
'mainstream' discrimination, Russia is an enormous country full of various
ethnic minorities under threat.

Take note although I've read a few about Russia, I'm far from an expert on it
and it's a really complicated place for me, so you should investigate the
issues I mentioned further to get a better view.

~~~
btilly
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Russia> suggests that it
started way before that under Catherine the Great.

~~~
zalew
I feel OPs question is about the modern era.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Things of today usually have some roots in things of the past.

------
siculars
My mothers father had to bribe the admissions board of Moscow U. to the tune
of tens of thousands of dollars to let her in. This was in the late 60's/early
70's. Anti-Semitism, but of course. They left as soon as possible for Israel
and then America.

Honestly, I often think that if Germany and the Soviets had not hated Jews so
much the world would be a very different place.

~~~
guard-of-terra
Where did he get tens of thousands of dollars (even if in the Rouble
equivalent)? Just curious. Seems to be a sum out of reach of any citizen who
is not a miner, a polar worker or engineer-in-chief.

~~~
rada
I had an almost exact same "forget-it-not-gonna-happen" conversation with an
admissions officer at MSU around 1984 (I think). It was suggested to my
parents that a substantial bribe would reverse my fortunes. We chose not to
apply - I went to my local U instead - but they could have definitely afforded
it: they were both high-earners (my dad headed a science lab and my mom was a
professor) plus they both made the so-called northern coefficient (basically,
2.5x regular salary for living in Bumf--k Siberia).

------
shimon_e
“Do you know that Jews are not accepted to Moscow University?”

“What do you mean?”

“What I mean is that you shouldn’t even bother to apply. Don’t waste your
time. They won’t let you in.”

How awful.

------
kombine
> The problem looked innocent enough at first glance: given a circle and two
> points on the plane outside the circle, construct another circle passing
> trough those two points and touching the first circle at one point.But the
> solution is in fact quite complicated. Few of my future colleagues at
> Harvard and Berkeley would have been able to solve it right away. One must
> use “inversion,” a concept that was not studied in high school and hence
> could not possibly be allowed in this exam.

I became quite curious about solving this problem, I tried to look up what he
means by "inversion" but could not find it. Anyone knows what it could be?

Update: Wikipedia suggests <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inversion_in_a_point>
but obviously this is covered by high school program and is not very
complicated.

~~~
dch
The concept he's talking about is
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_inversion>;
<http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Inversion.html> has a bit more detail.

~~~
kombine
Thanks, and the problem in question is actually
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_Apollonius>

------
rehack
wow! what a great read. This article confirms the anti-semitism in USSR, which
has been described by several others.

I am surprised there is no mention of Grigory Perelman[1] in the discussion
here on HN. The genius mathematician who proved PoinCare Conjecture, a problem
standing for 100 years. And then later on refused the million dollar prize
which was to be awarded for the proof[2].

The reason, this article reminds of Perelman is that he also faced similar
kind of discrimination, in the USSR. But it was more subtle in Perelman's
case. And he was able to get what he wanted from the USSR system, in terms of
going to the university he wanted.

Masha Gessen has written a biography on Perelman in her book 'Perfect Rigor'.
The book also serves as a commentary on the Russian Math culture (which is
very very impressive by the way) and their education system.

Now reading this article, I want to read Edward Frenkel's book as well.

[1] - <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigori_Perelman>

[2] - [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/24/grigori-perelman-
re...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/24/grigori-perelman-
reclusiv_n_511938.html)

Edit: typo

------
JabavuAdams
I'm often amazed by the stupidity of our species, but not usually infuriated.

Well, I guess that whole global race for talent didn't work out so well for
the USSR.

------
tokenadult
I see questions here in the thread about how university selection currently
works in the United States. There is quite an exhaustive thread on that
subject, "'Race' in College Admission FAQ & Discussion," on the College
Confidential discussion site,

[http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-
admissions/13664...](http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-
admissions/1366406-race-college-admission-faq-discussion-10-a.html)

and the first few FAQ posts in that thread link out to much official
information about current United States policies on the subject, current
college practice, and the controlling Supreme Court cases. There is, of
course, a case currently before the Supreme Court that may result in a change
in the controlling law, and commentary about the pending case is also linked
to from that thread. The issue of admission of Jews to United States
universities is also discussed there.

------
mukaiji
thank you for your remarkable courage and determination.

------
sologoub
Interesting read and I've heard similar stories, as well as know one person
who got in, but still talks about how terrible it was even after admission...
this is of course terrible and blatantly stupid of any nation to discriminate
of bright minds on questions of faith or origin... but what does it have to do
with Hacker News?

~~~
tzs
"On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes
more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the
answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity"

This was interesting, as you noted.

------
ucee054
From article: "People of other nationalities, like Tatars and Armenians,
against whom there were prejudices and persecution— _though not nearly on the
same scale as against the Jews_ "

The Soviet Union _killed_ Ukrainians by the _millions_.

