
Google age discrimination case to proceed - axiom
http://www.centralvalleybusinesstimes.com/stories/001/?ID=6572
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gibsonf1
This may be an unpopular idea, but I think a company should be able to hire or
fire whomever they like for whatever reason. This is best for both the company
and the employee - clearly in the case noted in the article, the employee who
was fired was having a hard time in the Google culture, so why would he want
to continue in the environment? Life seems too short for that.

~~~
bilbo0s
Recently, a friend of a friend introduced me to a young man who is developing
some interesting software. REALLY interesting stuff. During the demo I was
floored at how much more advanced it was than anything currently on the web.
The young man's presentation panache was second to none as well. You see, he
went to his website on MY MacBook demonstrating at once his confidence in his
virtual world platform's ability to run in arbitrary browsers, AND the fact
that it supports MacOSX without stating it! Who IS this kid!?!? I thought.

I am ashamed to say that I was shocked. Oh the software he described was
straight forward enough. Though admittedly my eyes did glaze over during his
explanation of some of the algorithms behind his system. This type of minutia
was NOT something I needed to know. A simple "This demos our booty physics"
engine is fine, I get it.

What REALLY got me, yes even SHOCKED me, was the fact that all of this was
coming from a person who, if I saw he and his friends on the street, would
probably have prompted me to double check my car locks. Maybe that is a little
bit of an exaggeration but you get the idea. How does a black kid, t-shirt,
necklace, sweatpants and all, understand these technologies so well? Now
before you call me racist, realize that this kid had been shopping around a
LOT. Even so, I am the ONLY person, so far, to have invited him to give a
presentation. At least I gave him a chance, and I am ecstatic that I did!

As I have too much respect for a lot of people on these boards to sport with
your intellect any longer than necessary I will come to the point. Though,
being so intelligent, I am certain that for many of you I have already made
it. How does this young man, with intelligence, ambition, and persistence,
become successful in our society if "a company should be able to hire or fire
whomever they like for whatever reason"? Attitudes like that are what leave
him, and others like him, on the outside looking in most of the time now. I
believe that we live in a society with a color-blind ideal. I also believe
that MANY young men, like the young man in my story, suffer due to our failure
to live up to it.

As do women.

As do the aged.

~~~
mynameishere
A product (or person) that has a particular value, but is undervalued for some
incorrect reason, represents an inefficiency in the market. But free markets
are self-correcting, because...

The real money in this world is in recognizing inefficiency and exploiting
(viz, "correcting") it.

Okay? So give the kid some money for a share in his endeavor, and you'll clean
up. Unless you're just BSing.

~~~
bilbo0s
I agree wholeheartedly agree with the first part of your post. Finding, and
exploiting inefficiency is what my role is all about.

No question.

The last part of your post has a few things in it that I have to take issue
with. Firstly, giving this guy money is NOT what I do. I invest in companies.
I think investing in companies is the best way to exploit inefficiencies.
Secondly, simply investing in a company with good people, and good technology
at a good price is part of "cleaning up" as you put it, but it is at times
insufficient to the cause. Now I could list GUBA, Revver etcetera here, but I
believe you get the point. Lastly, take a quick scan through the comments in
this thread. You will notice, in very short order, that yours is the only one
containing profanity. You will get a lot further in life if you do yourself
the goodness of presenting yourself in a favorable light to others. Even when
you disagree.

One more thing, my job is analysis. I look at, and analyze, data in a
dispassionate fashion. Then I give a yea or nay. Normally it is with an eye
towards advising other investors. In this case, I put a little of my own
scratch on the table. My business depends on reputation, I do not lie. I do
not omit. I do not aggrandize. Let me say now that given the attitudes of
people like you, I hope, for the sake of more than my investment, that this
guy is successful in a fashion that forces others to recognize that the
existence of people like him is possible.

~~~
mynameishere
Oh, sorry for the profanity, grandma. It's just that when "straight forward"
software causes someone to get "ecstatic", my BS detector flips a bit. Sorry.

 _You will get a lot further in life if you do yourself the goodness of
presenting yourself in a favorable light to others._

No doubt. (...wondering if you gave this advice to the subject in his
"t-shirt, necklace, sweatpants and all")

~~~
bilbo0s
As a matter of fact . . . I did :)

He didn't call me grandma though . . .

He said, "people don't care about that kinda stuff anymore"

I asked, "If that were true do you think you would be without investors right
now?"

~~~
motoko
I've been reading your comments, and you have interesting things to say. Do
you have a website or email address that you would share?

~~~
bilbo0s
Wow!

I'm flattered that someone took the time to go through my comment history. My
web presence is currently limited to my forum user's accounts at news.YC,
TechCrunch, and the like. The idea of a blog occurred to me briefly when we
decided to start looking at consumer startups. However, we determined there to
be many blogs already in existence doing an excellent job of providing
coverage of the space. It was doubtful that we would create a large enough
audience from which to select clients.

All that said, the idea of a personal blog has been pitched to me. Recently
the requests have been coming more and more often. So perhaps at some point in
the future. Right now I am so busy that I am staying in touch with the office
on the weekends. I would like to actually put thought into blog posts for a
personal blog, and not have it be these more off-the-cuff brainstorms that I
post to the forums.

Thanks again for the interest.

~~~
motoko
A smart guy like you doesn't need to be so owned by an office such that people
can't come to _you_ on their time. Why not post an email address?

~~~
bilbo0s
Is there a feature on this site that will allow me to send you my email on a
private channel?

~~~
motoko
email me at drewyates36@gmail.com and I'll delete this comment when you do

~~~
bilbo0s
OK you should receive it shortly.

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amichail
If you want to discriminate by age, just ask lots of puzzle-oriented questions
that require quick thinking in interviews.

~~~
edw519
This same stupid issue comes up on this board about once a week now (and is
beginning to get a little tired).

Will someone please cite the implied maxim "IF (AGE > X) THEN <something> MUST
BE LESS"

Anyone who believes that is automatically putting themselves at a disadvantage
for many reasons.

OK, ready? Once and for all, people...

WE ARE NOT BASKETBALL PLAYERS!

Hackers do not "lose a step". We often get better with age. I am clearly doing
my best work ever right now and it things keep going this way, hell, by the
time I'm 60 I'll be f*cking James Gosling or <insert your favorite digi-idol
here>, for crying out loud.

The idea that "puzzle-oriented questions that require quick thinking in
interviews" favor younger candidates would be laughable if it weren't so
pathetic.

Where does this kind of thinking come from? One of the many beauties of the
hacking community is that this is one of the last true bastions of non-
discrimination. I don't care if you're a young, old, black, white, female,
gay, republican, left-handed, agnostic, vegan, French cosmonaut. Can you code?
Does it run? Does it deliver value? That's all that matters.

And as far as physical attributes are concerned, I challenge anyone here,
regardless of age, to a 50 yard dash to the donuts when they arrive.

Got it? Good. Now back to your data.

(Sorry for the abrupt tone, but sometimes I gotta call 'em as I see 'em.
Anyway, I've been a little cranky since that last AARP meeting ran into
valuable hacking time.)

~~~
amichail
So you disagree that thinking speed slows as people age?

~~~
edw519
Can you repeat the question, a little slower this time.

~~~
amichail
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1078415.stm>

~~~
BrandonM
Hell... I have some of the symptoms in that article, and I'm only 23. I don't
think the ability to recall random strangers' names or remember why I walked
into a room really affects my coding, though. I would argue that the older I
get, the better I get at remembering the things that really matter (big
picture stuff, the project I'm working on, etc.) and forgetting the rest.

Also, here's a counterexample, a checkers player who was basically undefeated
well into his 60s:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marion_Tinsley>

Presumably he had to play several matches against younger, "sharper"
opponents.

