
Yuzu – Nintendo Switch Emulator - hising
https://github.com/yuzu-emu/yuzu
======
Jack5500
Even if you don't believe in emulation due to piracy, having an emulator
around for the sake of archiving is good for the future, I think.

~~~
rplnt
Emulators don't make piracy legal. So it would be the same argument as for
DRM-enabled videos or music. And that is a pretty bad argument.

~~~
astura
And there's great legal uses for emulation:

[https://hyperkin.com/Retron5/](https://hyperkin.com/Retron5/) (it was pointed
out to me they violate open source licenses, so forget this one.)

every game system's "virtual store"

wrapping old games around an emulator to make them (seamlessly) compatible
with current computers. Allows the publisher to continue to sell decades old
games with vert minimal effort.

I don't know how much rereleases of games use emulation vs rewrites, but I
assume at least some use emulation.

I believe I heard that the xbox360 contains an Xbox emulator for backwards
compatibility. If it wasn't the Xbox360 it was some other console.

Then there's the failed bleem! commercial emulator.

~~~
jsheard
Funnily enough the Retron5 _is_ illegal. Not because it emulates games, but
because the emulators it uses are stolen from open source projects that forbid
commercial use.

[https://www.libretro.com/index.php/appeal-to-game-
journalist...](https://www.libretro.com/index.php/appeal-to-game-journalists-
about-retro-bit-and-about-the-new-retro-emulation-industry-in-general/)

~~~
Karunamon
Aren’t open source licenses that forbid commercial use kind of rare? All of
the big name ones I can think of have no such provisions.

~~~
jsheard
It's more common in the emulation scene. The two emulators that Retron5
infringes on have licenses roughly based on MIT/BSD, but with no-commercial-
use clauses added.

[https://github.com/snes9xgit/snes9x/blob/master/docs/snes9x-...](https://github.com/snes9xgit/snes9x/blob/master/docs/snes9x-license.txt)

[https://github.com/ekeeke/Genesis-Plus-
GX/blob/master/LICENS...](https://github.com/ekeeke/Genesis-Plus-
GX/blob/master/LICENSE.txt)

------
degenerate
"At this time, yuzu does not run any commercial Switch games. yuzu can boot
some games, to varying degrees of success, but does not implement any of the
necessary GPU features to render 3D graphics"

In case anyone thought it was a full-blown emulator

~~~
speps
Actually, it can render some graphics now:
[https://twitter.com/notfunnei/status/952460754996944896](https://twitter.com/notfunnei/status/952460754996944896)

I guess they didn't update the website.

~~~
elliottcarlson
The README specifically says 3D graphics, which still seems to be lacking.

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Fej
Glad that the first major Switch emulator is open-source, it sets the
standard.

~~~
kakarot
Agreed! Cemu is a great piece of software, but coming after Dolphin, the
premiere open source console emulation project, it was pretty lame that they
opted for closed source.

In the case of Cemu, I understand that closed source = $20k/mo in Patreon
subscriptions which enabled a blistering pace of development in 2017. It's my
hope that the developers eventually open up the source after the subscriptions
dry up.

For long-term support, something that is extremely important when you're
dealing with games that will eventually be decades old, open source is
critical.

~~~
dtech
Does it have to be closed source for the Patreon? A significant amount of open
source developers have their own successful Patreon. And it's freely
downloadable so it's not like that is the Patreon incentive.

~~~
kakarot
I imagine they made that choice with the intention of preventing others from
wrestling control from the devs with a libre fork at the early stages of
development when they weren't sure just how much money they would make through
Patreon. The release cycle favors Patreon subscribers by a week or two. As
compatibility rounds out, this will be less of a draw.

It's a little similar to how PJ64 did things for a while with their donor
system, except AFAIK PJ64 is still closed source.

~~~
Fej
Project 64 is open-source now.

~~~
kakarot
Since 2015... wow. I never bothered to check because I haven't been using it
much over the last 2-3 years. That's great news!

------
ry_ry
Much of the Switch's appeal for me was the interesting hardware configuration,
I wonder if Nintendo focused less on obfuscating its inner workings compared
to other current-gen consoles based on that?

Edit: urgh, was supposed to be a reply to another comment. I guess the point
still stands though.

~~~
kakarot
I've had every previous Nintendo console to date except for the Wii U. I've
gone through 2 SNES's, 2 N64's, 2 Gamecubes, 3 Wii's, but 0 Wii U's.

Nintendo had a great streak going, and they just ruined it with such a shit
piece of hardware. Sure, the Wii was pretty terrible, but it redeemed itself
with the ease of which it can be hacked and customized, plus the Wiimotes
_were_ pretty neat even if not perfect.

My solution to shitty hardware? Buy the games and emulate. Never touch that
awful gamepad.

I don't care if full-blown 100% commercial emulation dropped tomorrow, I will
still buy a Switch this year and probably another in a couple years.

Hardware design is _extremely_ important, and with Nintendo's commitment to
continually finishing last in the GFX arms race, it's all they have. At least
with the Switch, they found a way to justify reduced graphical performance
with a hybrid mobile design.

As soon as some nice third-party joycons hit the market, I'm in.

~~~
elsonrodriguez
> Hardware design is extremely important, and with Nintendo's commitment to
> continually finishing last in the GFX arms race, it's all they have.

I'd like to point out that the Gamecube was much better than the Playstation 2
in terms of graphics.

In fact, I'd say that they learned their lesson about being a "Me Too" player
that generation, and began to focus on usability and innovation instead of raw
speed. This is a lesson they should have learned from their portables, but
somehow never applied it to their consoles.

~~~
kakarot
The Gamecube edged out in certain aspects like lighting and color accuracy,
and the Playstation 2 won out in other ways. It was definitely a beefy GPU
that stood toe-to-toe with Sony's... ATI did a good job.

Unfortunately, Nintendo thought it was a good idea to barely increase GPU
performance between generations and with the Wii we basically got a Gamecube
V2 instead of a console that actually competed with the new generation on a
hardware level.

~~~
Brockenstein
Right and the GameCube sold ~20 million units, which is abysmal for Nintendo.
Far fewer than any other Nintendo console up until that point, only the WiiU
has sold worse. But the Wii sold ~100 million units and was an unqualified
success.

I think elsonrodriguez's point was this. Nintendo has released consoles with
enough power to best all or some competition previously, in the form of the
N64 and the GameCube. That power didn't translate into sales. The N64 sold 1/3
as many units as the PSOne. The GameCube sold ~1/8th as many units as the PS2.
But the Wii sold more units than the Xbox360 or the PS3.

>Unfortunately, Nintendo thought it was a good idea to barely increase GPU
performance between generations and with the Wii we basically got a Gamecube
V2 instead of a console that actually competed with the new generation on a
hardware level.

Given the Wii's success it seems clear that they didn't need to compete on the
hardware level to be successful. And seeing how competing on hardware hasn't
worked out for them (terribly well) in the past it's arguably not a good
strategy for them to continue.

It certainly seems like Nintendo's biggest success stories don't center around
unparalleled technical specs. Rather, low cost hardware that's used really
well.

~~~
kakarot
> That power didn't translate into sales.

Certainly, but I think there are a lot of factors at play for why the GCN
didn't do well. For example, Nintendo tends to get its customer base wrong and
often doesn't engage in the kind of hype that Sony and Microsoft do because
Nintendo isn't trying to bleed people dry.

> Given the Wii's success it seems clear that they didn't need to compete on
> the hardware level to be successful

Again, several factors involved, even Nintendo was surprised by their success.

However, very few fans above 8 y.o. looked at their Wii and said, "Yes, I'm
satisfied that this is 480p when literally everything else on the market is
1080p".

A lot of people had expectations going in that were not realized because they
were just kind of expected as standard, and Nintendo failed to deliver.
Resolution, performance, even DVD playback. They really skimped on the latter,
even our toasters can play DVDs these days.

> It certainly seems like Nintendo's biggest success stories don't center
> around unparalleled technical specs.

So what do you believe can be attributed to their success?

And the answer isn't low-cost hardware. That only appealed to a certain casual
market, and Nintendo suffered for it with the Wii U because that market had
already been burned out on Wii gaming and most saw no reason to upgrade.

------
falcolas
<Soapbox>

If you want more interesting consoles that break from the "set top box"
paradigm, be sure to buy a switch.

If you want more games that are awesome and fun to play, buy those games.

Only after you've bought them (or can no longer legally buy them), break them
apart and create roms and emulators for your own use.

</Soapbox>

Artists will often create even without pay, but the scale and quality of many
of these games is beyond what even a group of artists could create in a decade
long side project.

------
zdw
Interesting that they didn't try to make it run on the nVidia Shield, which
has the same hardware as the Switch, but clocked higher.

------
hellbanner
"It's just Emulation!" \- The Challenge of Selling old Games
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16151538](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16151538)

~~~
vlunkr
While I think that video is great, the games on the Switch are the opposite of
old.

~~~
hellbanner
Yes, but in 5, 10 years they will be just like the games discussed in the
presentation.

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thinkpad20
Some of the time stamps I’m seeing on the code are on the order of two years
old. How is that possible, considering how long the switch has been out? I
guess they were able to reuse a lot of code?

~~~
AlexAltea
Yuzu is fork from an existing emulator for the Nintendo 3DS written by
essentially the same developers: [https://citra-emu.org/](https://citra-
emu.org/)

------
rkuska
> don't hesitate to join our Discord and talk to bunnei

Is that you bunnie? Or someone from Boston who was inspired by bunnie?

(bunnie = [https://www.bunniestudios.com/](https://www.bunniestudios.com/)
reverse engineer too, graduate from MIT)

~~~
Retr0spectrum
bunnei != bunnie

~~~
rkuska
I understand that. It's just a bit of coincidence with naming, the area of
interest and also boston.

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jpmoyn
Hopefully this gets developed more and is actually able to run games

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jlebrech
the appeal of the switch is portability, if you need a powerful gaming laptop
to run it it's defeating the purpose, but for posterity it's a good project to
keep an eye on.

~~~
drngdds
This is good for some other reasons too:

\- There are some good Switch exclusives that are worth playing even non-
portably

\- Eventually, this will probably let us play Switch games in higher
resolutions with better textures, post-processing, etc.

\- In the long-term, emulators let gamers get around eternally renewing
copyrights, which are basically just rent-seeking.

~~~
baby
True. I hope that this doesn't scare game developers away though, the switch
is truly one of the best console I've own so far and I'd be sad to see
developers running away from it because of emulators and piracy.

