

The Uncomfortable story to the Background of Facebook - idjit
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/21129674/the_battle_for_facebook/print

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Spyckie
Here's what I'm reading from the story - Mark Z. has an ambition to grow the
company as large as the sky, and those around him didn't have the dedication,
drive, or capacity to enact that dream.

How do you deal with people who you start with that just don't have what it
takes to grow or move the company forward? How do you deal with people who
haven't contributed as much work as you have, who don't take initiative to do
work on their own, and who don't 'get/grow the idea' as fast as you do? (some
of these are gleaned from the article, some I just ask for myself).

Mark Z's actions, if his coworkers were to fall into these categories, are
acceptable, and probably the only way to do it properly. And, considering the
majority of his coworkers were college students who just happened to be nearby
(not hired or specially picked), it is very likely that they didn't have the
capicity or willpower to bring the company along as much as Z. did.

~~~
dcurtis
You might be right. On the other hand, the article does paint a picture of a
greedy, evil asshole with no respect for other people or for his own word. Who
do you know with a business card that says "I'm CEO... bitch."?

There are ways to gracefully push people out, and then there are ways of
posturing yourself by forcefully and publicly kicking people out. He obviously
does not know how to do the former.

------
aswanson
_He is a Nietzschean superdork for the digital age — a college student who
gamed the system, propelled by a primal understanding of how to program
computers to serve human needs._

What a bad writer.

~~~
aswanson
On reflection, that was a pretty mean thing to say. I should have said, "What
a bad choice of words that writer made in that instance."

------
bosshog
Seems like facebook is going through the trough of disillusionment of the hype
cycle. I'm sure last year it could do no wrong.

Did Zuckerberg pull some douche moves or was he savvy? Would you have acted
similarly?

~~~
unalone
I think it's both.

He's an incredibly bright person who cares only about being a success. He's
making some incredibly savvy moves that I think are best for his company, but
at the same time he's being quite a bit of a douche.

~~~
drawkbox
Is it him that is being the douche or is the system rigged where douchebaggery
is a requirement to success of this type?

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bluelu
Taking away that 1/3 share of his partner Saverin (who seeded facebook) by
transfering verything to another company was kinda lame. But I guess, if you
want to be a good business man, you have to be greedy after all.

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akd
"Ideas" are not property. You are allowed to steal them. Who makes the money
depends on business savvy and luck (probably more on luck). Greenspan just
comes across as bitter that the dice didn't fall his way, and that he is not
being compensated for having a similar idea earlier.

~~~
gscott
If someone tells you an idea and you personally do it, great. If you tell me
you are going to help me, then without my knowledge turn around and take all
of the information I have been feeding you to help me and you do it, then that
is a level above just hearing a "good idea".

~~~
adrianwaj
Also, if someone has an idea, who'd be the first person you want on your team
if you like the idea? The person with the idea. Without knowing the facts, the
onus would have been on Zuckerberg to be upfront and try to include Greenspan
as much as possible, I think.

"Hey, I like your idea so much that I actually want to execute on it. Sorry."

At least Z's guilt can dissipate if it turns into a success.

Personally, I've seen people use my ideas and thoughts. Their error is not to
include me.

Blog Nation I think could've started on the back of my prototype site (I'm not
totally sure), but it has now crashed and burned, and I emailed the founder
with a link before BN started. At first I was somewhat peeved, and now it's
somewhat amusing.

People with ideas and executive ability are rare perhaps. Some people can spot
a good idea but not generate one, and they are always on the lookout for
ideas. Others generate but can't separate the wheat from the chaff.

For the former, one might want all the credit and glory and leave the latter
in the cold and isolated as much as possible. Both need to reconcile with each
other as best as possble, as is happening now in the Facebook saga.

Greenspan has learned the hard way perhaps. Sometimes you have to know when to
move on.

------
aston
I like the "pitched Sequoia in pajamas" story. That takes some balls.

Also might shed some light on why Sequoia never got in on Facebook...

~~~
alaskamiller
The scuttlebutt is that Facebook actually passed on Sequoia because of Peter
Thiel.

~~~
aston
Yeah, but is that really true? If so, why'd Zuckerberg even show up to pitch?

~~~
mlinsey
I don't think anyone except the parties involved can know if that's true, so
there's not much point in speculating. But I will note that nothing is better
for getting term sheets than already having other term sheets, particularly a
Sequoia term sheet. I wouldn't pitch a VC that I knew from the outset I didn't
want to work with, but I'm sure some companies do.

------
nadim
This stood out to me:

"In his senior year at Exeter, Zuckerberg and his roommate, Adam D'Angelo,
wrote software for an MP3 player that was able to learn a user's listening
habits and build a digital library based on previous selections. Several
companies showed an interest in the application, including an AOL subsidiary,
but D'Angelo and Zuckerberg had no intention of selling. They didn't care
about money. They cared about code. "They were the most advanced computer-
science students at the school," recalls Kristopher Tillery, a classmate who
set up a site with Zuckerberg that allowed Exeter students to order snacks
online."

And this: "The way he talked, the way he dressed, everything about him
screamed immature," Greenspan recalls. "He seemed unprofessional. I had run a
company since I was 15. It just didn't seem like he got it. That whole persona
just didn't impress me." Although he was congratulatory at the time, Greenspan
now says he was put off by Zuckerberg's original venture, Facemash. "You can
spend time writing software for good or evil, and that was pretty close to
evil," Greenspan said. "It wasn't that he inflicted harm because he enjoyed it
— it was because he didn't care. Which I thought was almost worse."

------
coglethorpe
> a dentist's son worth an estimated $1.5 billion

If they can't monetize Facebook, is he really worth anything?

~~~
jonknee
Until the cash (not stock) is in your account, you have nothing. Considering
the finicky audience and the trouble monetizing it, FB could very well pull a
Friendster.

~~~
alaskamiller
He cashed out as part of the second rounds of investing. I've heard numbers
ranging from 50 mil to 200 mil.

~~~
bosshog
The second round of funding was from accel and jim breyer.

He cashed out ~ $1 million, according to Sarah Lacy's book which she
interviewed him for.

------
lg
>Posted Jun 26, 2008 2:25 PM

scared the hell out of me.

~~~
alaskamiller
This is actually pretty common. The pre-post-date is the shelf availability
date of the magazine.

~~~
Alex3917
What really annoys me is when I buy a book and the copyright date is listed as
the next year. I don't understand how that can possibly be legal.

~~~
xirium
That's a sneaky trick with plenty of scope for abuse. If I postdate the
copyright on a book by five years then, after 20 years or so, it will be
harder to determine the true copyright expiration date.

I'm not a lawyer but I've got a countermeasure for this type of legal abuse.
Copyright is intended to be for a fixed term but I don't recall any details
that allow or prevent this period to be deferred. Therefore, if a book has
next year's copyright then it may not yet be in copyright.

~~~
alaskamiller
That's not how things work.

~~~
xirium
Well, how does it work if people postdate copyright?

~~~
alaskamiller
In the US, copyrights are automatic. You can register pieces of work as a way
to prove that the work was created at a certain date and time so that you can
sue somebody in civil court for damages but the central office is not the
mediator for copyright disputes.

It is that registration date that's important, not so much what the author put
down as the copyright year. So people that post date copyrights will have a
hard time convincing a court that they truly own the copyrights without any
other supporting evidence (such as registration, notarization, or other means
of proving a date).

And I'm not aware of anyone post dating copyrights years ahead. That would
make no sense as copyrights firstly last decades after the person's death and
secondly can easily be extended. So delaying the "start" date of a copyright
has no particular advantage.

------
thinkcomp
Claire used my book as a source for a lot of the article. In turn, you can see
my sources here:

<http://www.thinkpress.com/authoritas/resources.html>

~~~
Spyckie
The real Aaron Greenspan?

Can you give your analysis on the capabilities of the students surrounding
Facebook at the time? They were probably all bright and talented, but did they
have the drive, dedication, analytical skills, and abilities to do what was
required to succeed? I'm curious because Harvard has the best and brighest in
the country (arguably), and I'm wondering exactly what that means in a
quantifiable way.

~~~
thinkcomp
I am indeed real, but if you want my full analysis, I hate to say it, but you
should really consider buying the book. One of the reasons I wrote it was to
offer that analysis in detail.

The short version of my answer to your question is that you really already
answered it--you have to define success first. Mark has succeeded at things
I've failed at, and I've succeeded at things that Mark has failed at. Does
that make one of us "better" than the other? In monetary terms, maybe
eventually, but even those terms haven't been strictly defined yet for the
time being. In moral terms, I think there's a clear answer to that question,
but it's not going to yield a number for you.

Besides, who says that everything has to be quantifiable? Some things in life
just aren't.

------
wumi
"There aren't very many new ideas floating around," he said. "The facebook
isn't even a very novel idea. It's taken from all these others. And ours was
that we're going to do it on the level of schools.

------
hendra
you know you're there when you have that many enemies

------
agentbleu
In the cold light of day, Mark has done nothing more than anyone else would,
there are sharks everywhere 1) waiting to steal your idea 2) to claim you
stole their idea. What counts is ideas first then a whole lot of other skills
and elements but in the end, what happens in the market is the only law there
is. The moral of the story is, if you have the idea and the skills to make it
happen, do it. Don't for one second rely on legal tenets to protect you after
the fact. They don't work and never have. This is the cold sober fact. If you
have what it takes prove it.

Mark did nothing wrong here. There was nothing really novel about FB, it was
clean and doing what others do. FB does not claim Ning and everyone else are
coping them... The only thing that is wrong is the assumptions that others
made about how the real world works and that they are now sour grapes is
absolutely no surprise. It won't be the first nor the last case where someone
strikes gold and the rest of the world claim they helped hold the torch and
then want a cut.

This comes from someone who has had millions in ideas 'directly' (drawings off
the desk) stolen from him...

I don't cry about that, I play by the rules of the world, it's tough out there
and to play you do so by the real ruthless rules of survival of the fittest or
you will be a looser in a court claiming your owed a living.

Sure I had loads of ideas stolen, but I'm also a realist and know that I also
borrow from others whom I stand upon their shoulders when I make my way in my
ventures.

Next time if you have a good idea, don't talk about it do it....

~~~
pxlpshr
I would agree with you on the surface, however the problem in my book arises
when he was contracted to perform services and intentionally delayed
production. It's sabotage, not savvy. Very poor taste and does not constitute
a smart business man nor worthly competitor; a weasel's move. Had he heard the
idea and walked away lacking confidence in their ability to execute, well...
that's a completely different story.

Regardless, I still think he's a genuine entrepreneur and the success of
Facebook is a reflection of his ambition. I only wish I had not heard this
side of the story, it contradicts a more positive image I associated to him.
It also sounds like success has gone to his head, a discount to fortune that
makes it lonelier at the top.

:\

~~~
jacobolus
The assertion that he intentionally sabotaged them seems just a touch far-
fetched. They made an (it sounds like) informal contract with a
procrastinating college sophomore, in the middle of a busy school term.
Occam’s razor would suggest the delays were caused by disinterest,
procrastination, and the busy-ness of his schedule, not malice or greed.

These guys were supposedly working on their site (of a relatively simple and
obvious idea) for a year, with nothing to show for it, and their conclusion
is: “'That's supposed to be us.' We're not there, because one greedy kid cut
us out."” As if the 10 hours of work Zuckerberg didn’t do on their site was
the only thing separating failure from unbelievable riches.

~~~
Spyckie
Yeah, its inconsistencies like these in the article that make you question
just how much of the article is a good depiction of Z and how much of it is
just pure spite.

