
After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete - dsgerard
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-20/after-60-years-i-95-is-complete
======
T-hawk
> Near the Pennsylvania border, drivers have long been forced off the
> interstate and onto other roadways, only to join back 8 miles away.

This is a misleading overstatement. This is only true if you want to drive the
roads labeled as I-95. There are indeed two segments labeled as I-95 that are
discontinuous: the NJ Turnpike south until exit 6, and from Trenton southwards
through PA to Delaware. But those segments are linked by the remainder of the
NJ Turnpike, which forms a continuous highway route from northern NJ through
to Delaware, and the signage indicates that all through traffic should do
that.

Ascii art diagram:

    
    
          A
          A
      BXXXA
      B   C
      B  C
      B C
      BC
      B
    

A and B are the discontinuous sections of I-95 (A is the NJ Turnpike; Trenton
is at the north end of the B section); C is the remainder of the turnpike; X
is the "new" section. X already existed, it's just being redesignated as I-95.
The only thing actually missing was the interchange between X and B. But none
of that really matters because C is the more direct route anyway.

~~~
jcranmer
There's a slight inaccuracy in that diagram. While NJT does (via a short stint
on I-295) intersect I-95 in Delaware on the southern end, the northern end has
a rather more roundabout connection. I-95 continues up as a beltway around
Trenton. But the beltway continues as I-295, which turns south and parallels
the NJ Turnpike. If you're trying to go north on I-95, you end up heading
south instead for ~7mi and then needing a ~7mi stint on I-195 to continue
north.

~~~
T-hawk
This is correct; I knew it but didn't try to illustrate it for simplicity.

~~~
BonesJustice
i.e., highways in Jersey are a quagmire of poor planning.

Actually, that applies to pretty much all roads—not just highways.

~~~
jimmaswell
At least a lot of our roads, including city roads, got to be planned at all -
still better than the mazes of very narrow, disorganized roads established
hundreds of years ago you get in very old locations in Europe, particularly
old cities. At least this is the impression I've gotten reading some accounts
on the subject online - can't vouch for it 100%.

~~~
kbenson
Just imagine what our planning will look like in one or two hundred years (or
even 30-40 years). I would bet those more walk-able and bike-able cities will
look a lot more attractive...

~~~
jimmaswell
I don't see self-driving cars/pods making better roads not be a benefit unless
they're airborne.

~~~
kbenson
Current planning assumes a lot of parking is required. Streets allow parking
on the sides, access routes are optimized for cars, every business wants to be
as close as possible to street, etc.

I also think the shifts coming in transportation will be a lot more than an
"automated uber". There will likely be a lot of automated carpooling and
carpool discovery along the line of ad-hoc ride-sharing discovery. Bottom-
line, I assume there will be a lot less parked hunks of metal in city centers,
which will itself alter what an efficient layout entails.

The entire US is designed around personal automobile ownership to an
incredible degree. Anything that affects that one way or another drastically
changes optimal design layout for both residential and commercial planning.

As a simple example of this, if you've ever driven down a corridor of highway
or an arterial route that is one strip mall after another behind parking lots,
imagine how that changes is a large chunk of people are no longer driving
their own cars leisurely, but instead hiring transport to a specific point.
Road visibility is much less important. Parking lots in front are mostly
superfluous. Basically, walk-able downtown areas and enclosed malls may see
(and I think already are seeing) a resurgence.

------
dcole2929
Stuff like this is why I have exactly zero faith in the US ever building the
type of high speed rail systems that other countries have and we clearly need.
These projects are simply to expensive for private entities to undertake alone
and federal and local governments can't stay aligned long enough to see
anything that last longer than an election period through to it's finish.

Unless someone invents teleportation, what we have currently for
transportation infrastructure is probably as good as it will get, with
possibly hyper local, minimal improvements.

~~~
mikeash
Somehow this stuff got built before. There must be a way to get back into that
state.

~~~
Analemma_
It was built when the top marginal tax rate in the United States was above 70
percent, a level which would make a lot of people go into fits of apoplectic
rage if you were to suggest it now.

~~~
bovermyer
Wait, what?

~~~
nightbrawler
Some interesting statistics of tax rates:
[https://bradfordtaxinstitute.com/Free_Resources/Federal-
Inco...](https://bradfordtaxinstitute.com/Free_Resources/Federal-Income-Tax-
Rates.aspx)

\- During WWI it peaked at 77% \- During WWII it peaked at 94%!!

~~~
throwaway76543
It didn't really, though. That's the marginal income rate, not capital gains
-- it's a tax rate for an empty bracket. It was super effective wartime
grandstanding which is still fooling everyone decades later.

Capital gains -- the rate the upper class actually pays -- has never risen
above 35% at the federal level. And that's within a few points of 2018
marginal rates when we factor in state level taxes for places like California.
The tax moved from federal to state (or to earmarked federal, like NIIT)

Capital gains:

1945: 35% federal + 6% state = 41%

2018: 25% federal + 3.8% NIIT + 13.1% state = 41.9%

Prior to losing SALT, wealthy Californians paid slightly lower marginal rates
than in 1945. Trump's changes cause the current marginal tax rate for wealthy
Californians to be higher than in 1945 -- the year you're calling out as a
peak.

No one really paid 94%.

~~~
nostrademons
It did affect certain people, though, like movie actors like Ronald Reagan.
His stated rationale for supply-side economics was that back during WW2, him
and his peers would do 2 movies/year and then be done working, because doing a
3rd would put them in the top tax bracket and the government would get all the
money.

[https://toomuchonline.org/the-tax-that-turned-ronald-
reagan-...](https://toomuchonline.org/the-tax-that-turned-ronald-reagan-
right/)

~~~
throwaway76543
Yeah. I should say "virtually no one." The tax did apply to a very tiny
proportion of high end income.

------
underhill
This doesn't really change much unless you spend much time in/around Philly.

As it currently stands, there is no direct interstate highway between Philly
and New York. If you ever take a Bolt or Megabus between the two cities you'll
notice it usually takes exit 4 on the Turnpike and drives through suburban
Cherry Hill NJ to get into Philly. To get between the two cities you have to
exit and take a more local road through NJ for a couple miles. This
interchange will connect it so you can go directly from "Pennsylvania 95" to
I276 to "NJ Turnpike 95". (Except now all called "95")

If you are driving direct from New York/Boston to DC, you'll in all likelihood
never see this interchange and continue take the NJ Turnpike all the way down
to Delaware in order to bypass Philadelphia traffic and construction.

------
mbostleman
For sixty years, and maybe more, there have been those in either the press or
politics that claim America's roads and bridges are disintegrating and the end
is near. Yet I have lived in multiple regions of the country, in both dense
and sparse populations, and if there's any impression I've had is that there
is a very sustained, robust, and aggressive effort to maintain roads and
bridges. In fact, it's something that has always amazed me as a visual
indication of the magnitude and strength of the economy. Is there reliable
data over this period that actually shows a downward trend? If there is, it's
not referenced in this article.

~~~
jdpedrie
The only statistics I ever see cited are those of the American Society of
Civil Engineers, an interest group with a vested interest in increased
infrastructure funding. I'm not hostile to the idea that we should spend more
on maintenance, but I agree that we need some data from a less obviously
compromised source. And that is setting aside the problem that increased
funding has self-evidently not resulted in better quality of infrastructure.
Kickbacks and corruption are rampant in that sector, a fact made clear
recently in my hometown and county, which has seen a raft of corruption
indictments and convictions related to public works projects over the last few
years.

~~~
JustMatthew
I can understand your skepticism, but the ASCE is a long-standing, globally
respected professional association for credentialed civil engineers - the
annual infrastructure report cards they issue are based on the field surveys
that not only ASCE member engineers but that various local government and non-
government bodies from all around the country take part in and carry out as
well.

If you say that you don't want to trust data compiled and reviewed by an
association of civil engineers, then you should probably stop using ADA
approved toothpaste and cease getting those AMA recommended medical check-ups.

I hope that didn't come across too harshly, but there seems to be a wave of
anti-intellectualism that has been spreading across the US. Obviously that
sentiment has formed in no small part due to actual abuses that have been
carried out by those with vested interests, but we need to be careful that we
don't take what would otherwise be a healthy skepticism of the actions and
proscriptions of organizations too far and mis-trust all professional
organizations or everything that they publish...

~~~
jdpedrie
It's not "anti-intellectualism" to be skeptical of the word of someone who
stands to directly benefit from the course of action they recommend. I'm quite
sure that the ASCE is a fine organization populated by conscientious and well-
meaning people, but there's a reason why scientists use double-blind studies,
and why judges recuse themselves from cases in which they have an interest.

I agree that we shouldn't take skepticism of expertise too far, and I'm rather
baffled at how you'd attribute the sentiment you're denouncing to my comment.
What I want is more evidence from more sources. Only the most uncharitable
reading of my point would conclude I'm advocating any srt of anti-
intellectualism.

------
apo
Reminds me of the Growth Ponzi Scheme:

 _We 've done this because, as with any Ponzi scheme, new growth provides the
illusion of prosperity. In the near term, revenue grows, while the
corresponding maintenance obligations — which are not counted on the public
balance sheet — are a generation away._

[https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2016/11/7/the-
infrastruc...](https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2016/11/7/the-
infrastructure-time-bomb)

------
acheron
Glad they finished that. Now if they could just complete I-70 in Breezewood
PA...

~~~
dougmwne
I knew I'd see something about Breezewood in here. For those who've never had
the pleasure, just before you hit the PA Turnpike, there's a 500m gap in I-70
where you are forced to exit and reenter all while dodging a minefeild of gas
stations, red lights and fast food. Those 500m can add 30 mins to your trip.
It exists as a political aberration. In the 60's, the feds and state couldn't
agree who should pay for an interchange connecting the two roads, so no one
did. Like a stubborn wart on the highway system, Breezewood remains.

------
shakil
Meanwhile, in China they can build an entire railway station in one night.
[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/chinese-
worker...](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/chinese-workers-
productivity-build-nanlong-railway-station-nine-hours-longyan-a8173881.html)

------
mrfusion
Now let’s fix the parts in NC and SC where it goes down to two lanes and gets
backed up every day.

~~~
sndean
I was curious about how much that'd cost. At least for SC, it was estimated at
~4 billion [0] in early 2017. There's a proposal saying they could raise ~600
million of that per year by increasing the gas tax by 10 cents/gallon. I don't
know where that proposal went, if anywhere.

[0] [https://www.thestate.com/news/politics-
government/article128...](https://www.thestate.com/news/politics-
government/article128186934.html)

------
coleca
Guess we're just going pretend that I-95 through Boston was completed then?
Instead Route 128 was relabeled I-95 after Governor Sargent cancelled plans
for it.

[http://www.bostonstreetcars.com/bostons-cancelled-
highways.h...](http://www.bostonstreetcars.com/bostons-cancelled-
highways.html)

------
swebs
I really don't understand the problem. From NY to just outside Philadelphia,
I-95 is part of the Jersey Turnpike. Then the Jersey turnpike is suddenly
labeled I-295, and I-95 teleports to the highway running through Philadelphia.
You can see it from this map [1]. They both then meet up again in Wilmington,
where they both merge into 1-95 again. Why not just keep the designation of
I-95 on the Jersey Turnpike throughout the entirety of New Jersey?

[1][https://goo.gl/maps/GpjeGtvmrJ42](https://goo.gl/maps/GpjeGtvmrJ42)

~~~
T-hawk
Because the southern part of the NJ Turnpike (exits 6 through 1) is not
constructed to Interstate standards at all points. Things like lane width,
curve radius, visibility distance, shoulder space.

~~~
3ondfbv0
There are a lot of Interstates that don't meet Interstate standards, such as
every one in NYC.

------
ipsin
I-710 in Los Angeles is another freeway that's taken 60+ years (proposed in
1954), and at this point I don't think it's ever going to be connected to the
I-210.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_710](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_710)

------
WalterBright
It took about 20 years just to complete the interchange between I5 and I405 at
Alderwood. It was constantly being torn down and rebuilt. The cost must have
been incredible.

~~~
iv597
... and it's still a disaster that completely clogs I-5, particularly
northbound, to a standstill. Wonderfully done, y'all!

------
Simulacra
Tolls. Oh yippee

~~~
toomuchtodo
User fees are the most "fair" way to pair for infrastructure. It's not
economically efficient to collect taxes on fuel in the aggregate, and then
piecemeal out highway funding by any other metric than usage (although it
makes for great politics).

~~~
swebs
Could you go into more detail? I always wondered why public roads would opt
for awful toll plaza back-ups over increasing the gas tax.

~~~
jcranmer
You don't have to put a toll gate and slow everyone down to 15mph to collect a
toll. Open-road tolling, such as in the Chicago region, can easily read a
transponder (or a license plate) at 70mph. Some places have gone so far as to
move to all-electronic tolling, with no toll booths (e.g., Mass turnpike).

~~~
michaelper22
Many more crossings in the NY metro area are now open-tolled for both EZPass
and toll-by-mail: Whitestone, Throgs Neck, Tappan Zee

------
nadermx
This article talks about increased mobility as the end goal. Clearly the
highway transportation act did not actually increase mobility. Mobility is
design in a sense to require less commutes with multi use land use.

This instead forces users to have to commute large lengths regardless in a
system that was designed, specifically, to reduce mobility all through the
United states.

~~~
GavinMcG
If you think the article is clearly wrong to use a certain word, consider the
possibility that they're using a different definition than you are.

I, for one, would never identify "requiring less commutes" as a key facet of
mobility. To me, it means that it is easier to get around – and on a large
scale, that's absolutely the (successful) goal of the interstate system.

~~~
nadermx
The interstate system was responsible for decimating entire down towns,
completely reducing any sense of mobility for all parties involved. Uprooting
trolly systems that spanned across large parts of the country. It's not a
specific issue with the word, it's a issue with what the overall view of
highways portrayed by the article, and the reason it was done to begin with.

~~~
icebraining
I'm not an American, so wholly ignorant on this, but how was the uprooting of
the trolly systems the result of the interstate system?

~~~
jcranmer
I suspect it's meant to refer to
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_consp...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy).

------
cryptozeus
Projects like these should be sponsored by private firms. Let them put up
ads/billboards on the sponsored highway. This can provide fund to finish the
project.

~~~
tdb7893
I doubt that billboards would recoup much of the cost of interstate highways,
they go through major metropolitan centers often only every couple hundred
miles and billboard ads really aren't that expensive.

