
Remembering the Murder You Didn’t Commit (2017) - danso
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/06/19/remembering-the-murder-you-didnt-commit
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cf141q5325
Saw an interesting documentary on the topic lately. They also had an
interrogator who got someone to confess to a crime they didnt commit. And not
just confess but actually believe it with the brain making up details of
something that never happened.

[https://youtu.be/FxOy6z0yq5w?t=1462](https://youtu.be/FxOy6z0yq5w?t=1462)

He was lucky that it turned out he wasnt in the country at the time of the
murder and they found the alleged real killer instead.

Cant repeat it often enough, just never talk to cops. No smalltalk no nothing.
If it comes to it talk to your attorney and then the judge. The police isnt
looking for the truth but for a solid case for a conviction. Finding the truth
is the job of a judge or a jury.

~~~
sonnyblarney
"Don't talk to the cops" is the surest way to get criminals off and to create
ghetto-like conditions.

Yes, definitely 'talk to the cops' unless you're a suspect of something that
you didn't do, and then of course get a lawyer.

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Nadya
"Anything you say _can and will_ be used against you in the court of law."

Note two things about this statement:

1) _Nothing_ you say will be used _for_ you.

2) Everything you say _will be used against you_.

I forget the lawyer's name, but the above is paraphrased from a former
prosecutor turned D.A. Never put forward any statement to the police without
at least consulting your lawyer first. Even if you're innocent, even if you're
providing a witness statement. Anything.

By all means - give witness statements. Help the police do their job. Just be
sure to speak with a lawyer first. There's a very high chance that even though
you did nothing wrong you'll incriminate yourself by speaking up.

~~~
hexane360
Point 1 doesn't logically follow from the Miranda rights. In fact, that's the
whole point of the adversarial court system: everything you say will be used
for _and_ against you, by the defense and the prosecution respectively.

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Nadya
How do you think your defense would obtain a copy of anything you said to use
in your favor? In a situation where you would need it, it won't be presented
unless you happen to have been recording yourself. But if you trust the police
to _not_ use things you say against you then you're also likely to trust them
enough to not be recording your interactions.

The prosecution has no incentive or motivation to present evidence that could
be used to the benefit of the defense.

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hexane360
>How do you think your defense would obtain a copy of anything you said to use
in your favor?

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_(law)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_\(law\))

Specifically:

>Under the rule set forth in _Brady v. Maryland_ , the prosecutor is obligated
to provide to the defendant any information that is exculpatory or potentially
exculpatory, without any request by the defense. Further discovery is
available if initiated by the defendant. For example, a discovery demand might
be for production of the names of witnesses, witness statements, information
about evidence, a request for opportunity to inspect tangible evidence, and
for any reports prepared by expert witnesses who will testify at trial.

~~~
Nadya
You have far more faith in the system than I do and especially that the police
wouldn't deny the existence of evidence that you said what you say you said if
it suited them. Things are conveniently lost, misfiled or "never existed" in
the first place.. They withold your statement from discovery. You claim they
have a written report of your statement and knowingly withheld it. They claim
they don't have it, have never had one, and it's nowhere to be found. Now
what?

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nvahalik
A long time ago, I was brought in for questioning regarding a murder. I was
young and didn't know any better, but "I had nothing to hide".

The DA wanted me to say that I knew something about it and so he walked me
through the entire scene, showed me pictures, told me he entire version of
where I fit into the picture and so on. Showed me some pretty graphic images
of the bodies, etc.

I could see how some people might be traumatized by this sort of "questioning"
and simply allowing whoever they are speaking with to paint the picture and
end up believing that they are in it.

After all, these were people I had known. I had been friends with the accused.
It's not like they were completely unknown to me. I already had memories of
these people. What if some of those memories just needed some "help" to come
to light?

Coupled with whatever intense emotions + this sort of vivid storytelling... I
could definitely buy that people would end up creating memories that don't
really exist.

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danso
Should have retitled this "Not Remember the Story You Previously Submitted"
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14541465](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14541465)

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saagarjha
Ha! I think it might have been long enough that it’s OK to repost this, though
I’m not sure if the moderators will agree.

~~~
Tomte
It has been long enough. The submission is fine.

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EliRivers
Memory is a story we tell ourselves about the past, and the memory is
recreated every time we tell the story. It's very possible to have real
memories of things that never happened. We can make them entirely on our own,
or people can put them into our heads. Real memories of things that never
happened.

Dr Julia Shaw's "The Memory Illusion" contains a readable account of doing so.

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yesenadam
Derren Brown's _The Guilt Trip_ , a British TV special in which Derren
convinces a young man (by various psychological techniques, using a cast of
dozens) to suspect that he has committed murder, and even to confess to the
murder, without interrogation or even being aware of any manipulation. Pretty
amazing. (As are most of Derren's TV shows)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AzTLw0Xwok](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AzTLw0Xwok)

~~~
dragonsngoblins
That sounds remarkably unethical and like it'd cause a great deal of
psychological distress

~~~
yesenadam
Did you watch it? He is extremely careful, in many ways... And it did seem
likely to have a positive effect on the guy's life, from what I could tell.

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KangLi
Thanks for this "Down the rabbit hole" article, that led me to the innocence
project, the Stockholm syndrome [condition that causes hostages to develop a
psychological alliance with their captors as a survival strategy during
captivity], Patty Hearst Trial, the SLA and the life of psychiatrist Joel
Fort. You have made my day :D

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freedomben
Everybody in the U.S. should read "You & the Police" by Boston T. Party.

If you disagree with the author's Libertarian bent then look up one of the
"know your rights" things from the ACLU, tho the breadth of scenarios covered
there is much lower. For example the ACLU doesn't typically teach you how to
avoid having your gun rights trampled by the police using questionable laws
that vary from state to state and city to city, or used as faux "probable
cause" to escalate your encounter toward arrest. For reasons like that I
recommend Boston T. Party's book. The ACLU's stuff is also more sound bitey,
for better and worse. Better yet, read both :-)

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cladari
"I intend to fully cooperate but first I'm going to talk to a lawyer to get
advice on the best way to do that".

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PlasticTank
I have a recurring dream where I murder someone and bury the body, it's always
the same, I'm quite young in the dream too. Wonder if I'm remembering a murder
I actually did commit.

~~~
JadeNB
Unless it's sarcasm, this seems like the sort of thing you should be
discussing with a therapist, not posting on the internet.

