
Be My Eyes – Lend your eyes to the blind - khebbie
http://www.bemyeyes.org/
======
mwcampbell
Nice idea, but I think it would be better if it were commercial, with the
blind user paying, the sighted helper getting paid, and the app developers
getting a cut. The payment could be by the minute. I think the general public
will be more inclined to treat blind people as equals if we demolish the
notion that blind people require charity.

Addendum: Lest anyone think I'm talking out of my ass, here's a blog post from
a blind programmer who previously had the idea of doing something like this as
a business. Unfortunately, it looks like he abandoned that project, since the
home page now redirects to something else.

[https://thewordnerd.info/2014/04/01/perceptron-the-first-
rea...](https://thewordnerd.info/2014/04/01/perceptron-the-first-real-time-
marketplace-for-independent-living-help/)

~~~
ndarilek
Actually, I haven't abandoned it--literally working on it this very minute, in
fact. :)

The problem is that multi-platform video interchange is a hard problem. Very
hard. SIP only gets you so far even with web RTC, then you hit issues where
server X doesn't like delegating authentication to anything else, Y does but
requires super-indepth knowledge of the protocol, and Z may or may not but
it's got so many modules it's hard to tell. Then there's the issue of needing
some degree of call control so connections can be terminated for using too
much time, which the hosted SIP services I looked at don't seem to allow. And,
unfortunately, the hardest problem of the launch list is the one I need to get
right, meaning I've spent months looking for a good, low-cost, cross-platform
(desktop, Android and IOS) video exchange solution and have only recently
found something that may work. It's possible that I've just used bad Google
keywords or something, but none of the legacy SIP servers seem to like being
plugged into a web app as opposed to managing everything themselves.

So, yeah, definitely not abandoned, I've just spent way more time than I liked
finding a possibly good media server, plus continuing to earn money so I can
keep the lights on and pay the rent. :) Hoping for a launch in the next couple
months, assuming my current path pays off.

BTW, how the hell do you accessibly (I.e. via the keyboard) click the button
to submit comments here? :P I have to poke around on my touchscreen until I
find it, then double-tap. Surely there's a better way?

~~~
ndarilek
Also, something else that bothers me a bit about lots of the comments in this
thread:

It's nice that people want to keep things free and to avoid the influence that
money might bring to a thing. But the unfortunate reality is that we live in a
society that doesn't let me buy groceries, beer or housing with goodwill.
Sure, help is a good thing, and I'm the last person who wants to live in a
society where our interactions are commoditized. But there's a cost for the
convenience of near-instantly beaming that help to your phone/desktop/smart
glasses. Put simply, I'm just as much a consumer as are you, and I think that
regarding services like these as something that should be given away for free
is a big reason there's next to zero innovation in how I as a blind person
interact with my world.

Put more practically, I've probably spent ~$100 on audio-only games in the
course of my lifetime (would likely be more, I'm just not a huge gamer.)
Additionally, I've purchased Twitter clients, book readers and other apps
specifically designed to be highly accessible because their mainstream
equivalents aren't, or their accessibility implementations are laughably bad
(see Kindle for PC, which I'd rather crack Kindle content than use.) We're
here, we're buying things, and while there's certainly a large segment of the
community that will vocally complain if things aren't free, we're happy to
fund new innovation for folks who can deliver something beyond another
currency/color identifier or minor screen reader iteration.

~~~
walterbell
There are various ways to segment customers to extract money from those who
can afford it, while offering low-cost or free services to those who cannot.

We need companies like this to have high cash flow, so they can hire top
developers and create jobs where an engineer's daily work goes directly to
improve human quality of life.

~~~
jareds
I'd like it if this would force you to pay based on how long something was
going to take. I want to install freenas in a virtual machine so I can test
the web interface accessibility before spending the money on a server to run
it. I'd gladly pay $10 or $15 to have someone walk me through the install by
me pointing my phone at my laptop screen if that were possible but don't want
to ask someone who's expecting to spend 30 seconds reading a label spend 30
minutes walking me through an OS install instead.

------
ejstronge
Oddly relevant - a This American Life episode recently explored whether
cultural expectations of blind individuals' abilities have been
detrimental[1].

1\. [http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-
archives/episode/544/b...](http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-
archives/episode/544/batman)

~~~
adamvalve
That is the first thought I had. The expectation here is that the blind need
help, which may not be the case. The interesting thing to me was that the
blind can "see" through echo location. Very cool stuff.

~~~
memonkey
SOME blind people can see using echo location. From what I understand,
children can learn faster in detecting objects with sound vs someone much
older where it may take much longer. There is a pretty good Wiki on it that
explains more and includes some people from the show[1].

[1][http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_echolocation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_echolocation)

~~~
simonster
There are also various auditory vision substitution systems
([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensory_substitution#Auditory_v...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensory_substitution#Auditory_vision_substitution)).
The vOICe creators claim that blind individuals can achieve the equivalent
20/250 vision with a week of training
([http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/dec/07/voice-
soundsc...](http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/dec/07/voice-soundscape-
headsets-allow-blind-see)).

~~~
Dylan16807
20/250 vision is... really good. Able to use a full 80x24 terminal with ease.
Able to drive as long as you're not too picky about legality or reading signs.
Able to read facial expressions in a conversation. I'm very curious about the
details of 'equivalent'.

~~~
cowpewter
Wow, yeah. I'm 20/400ish without my contacts in (nearsighted, -3.75/-4.0, plus
some mild astigmatism), and while I couldn't drive a vehicle like that (or
rather, wouldn't - I could probably stay in the lane okay during the day, but
wouldn't be able to read any signs, and after dark the whole experience would
be terrifying), I can certainly interact fine with others, read facial
expressions as long as a person isn't on the complete other side of the room,
can easily navigate unfamiliar rooms, and use a book or a screen as long as I
hold it within a foot of my face.

~~~
simonster
With nearsightedness, you can have nearly normal vision 1 foot away even if
you have much worse vision 20 feet away. With this system I suspect you can
see things better when they're closer just because they encompass more of the
visual field, but you probably can't see something 1 foot away nearly as well
as a myopic person with 20/250 vision.

On the other hand, you might still be able to read. The vOICe people published
a paper
([http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0896627312...](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0896627312007635))
that shows that regions of the brain that are activated by letters/words in
normal individuals and by Braille reading in the blind are activated by vOICe
after training.

------
ikt
My only question is how do you handle trolls, idiots, abuse etc?

What happens if for example 4chan decides to 'raid' your app and direct blind
people into unfortunate situations. I must admit it's a very low act but
that's my only real thought about this.

If abuse wasn't a possibility I think the app is 100% amazing.

~~~
khebbie
We do have abuse handling

~~~
robmcm
Not only intentional abuse, but what about lag? Especially when say, crossing
the road!

~~~
wingerlang
I will only assume that crossing the road is not a huge problem for blind
people. I am sure most know how to do it safely, traffic light sounds or
simply asking someone to help. I doubt anyone would rely on internet/videochat
for something as high precision as that.

I don't know anyone blind, so I might be wrong on some part(s).

------
walterbell
What the industry needs is OPEN _training data_ for image and voice
recognition, which can be annotated by human volunteers and used to improve
new algos. This data can be hosted by archive.org under a permissive license.

For example, there is a commercial service in the "visual search" space which
has been around for a few years, which uses a combination of algos and human
employees. It is available as an API and app (8 cents per picture, or $10 per
month unlimited).

 _" Besides CamFind, the Image Searcher, Inc. team also created TapTapSee,
which is a similar app for the blind and visually impaired. It uses image
recognition technology with photos taken on your smartphone and then a voice
actually speaks the results. This earned the team an Access Award just one
week ago from the American Foundation for the Blind"_,
[http://www.builtinla.com/blog/camfind-brings-visual-
search-y...](http://www.builtinla.com/blog/camfind-brings-visual-search-your-
smartphone-putting-google-goggles-test)

An AFB review from 2013 (at that time the app was free),
[http://www.afb.org/afbpress/pub.asp?DocID=aw140704](http://www.afb.org/afbpress/pub.asp?DocID=aw140704)

How much faster could this research area have moved if the collected data was
open? What if Facebook/Instagram decided to contribute in some manner, given
their large database of photos and tags?

------
rdez6173
I find the thought of communicating directly with someone a bit anxiety-
inducing, but I would really love to volunteer for something like this.

I would be happy to transcribe a letter, or product expiry date so that I
could be read back to the user with text-to-speech in real-time.

I suspect that I'm in the minority and this is likely a non-issue.

~~~
ndarilek
That's actually an interesting bit of feedback. Thanks. I'm using SIP/web RTC
for my for-profit version of this and had considered adding text chat, but I
couldn't come up with a good use case so left it out. It'd probably also be
useful when the text of something is important and you'd like a record after
the call ended. I'll add that to the features list.

~~~
elicash
Yeah, I was about to use the Be My Eyes app to help and as soon as I realized
I'd have to actually have a video/audio chat with a person, I admittedly
chickened-out.

~~~
khebbie
That is very interesting feedback. I am a developer from Be My Eyes. What
could be done to make it less intimidating?

------
TeMPOraL
From the little I talked with blind people, I think this could be a great
solution for shopping. People I talked with said that crossing streets or
moving around ain't big problem for them, but one of their biggest pain points
are grocery stores. More and more, Mom&Pop stores are replaced by network
supermarkets, in which you need to search for the product yourself instead of
asking for it, and employees are often not prepared/willing to help a blind
customer. This app could help a lot here.

------
rlpb
Are there any legal consequences if a blind person is helped crossing the
street and gets hit by a car?

~~~
johlindenbaum
It wouldn't be any different than the passenger in your car telling you, like
"clear right". Any resulting accident is still the driver's fault afaik.

~~~
masukomi
there isn't network delay when your passenger tells you its "clear right"

~~~
bambax
Yes; also, if the person is in the car, they're risking their own life -- not
so if they're hundreds of miles away.

------
leapius
If only there was an Android version I'd be on it right now. In fact I think
it would actually be quite an enjoyable past time answering requests,
especially for lonely people.

Think about how interesting it would be to help out a complete stranger from
anywhere in the world. I think it would become quite addicting.

~~~
aluhut
Not only lonely. Just bored.

I also hope for a release on Android soon.

------
khebbie
I am part of the team who created the app and api.

Many blind users use the voice over feature built into ios as @rgoodwintx
mentioned.

~~~
dntrkv
One problem that I see (you guys might already address this) but if I'm a
helper and I get a call from a blind person and I have just a couple minutes
to help but the blind person needs 10 minutes of help it would be inefficient
to connect me with them. One way to solve this would be for the blind to
select a time range of how much help they need (1 minute, 5 minutes, 10
minutes, etc...) and then when it calls the helper it will show how much help
is needed, so they can either decline or go into the call knowing how long
they will be busy for.

Also you may be able to introduce pricing in this way, where anything under 5
minutes is free, but over 5 minutes you charge however much per minute and
then split the cost with the helper.

~~~
khebbie
We didn't think about that but will take it into consideration. The app will
probably stay free as that is the whole base of this. But the expected
timespan is very usable. Thank you.

------
joshdance
This is my lack of experience, but how does a blind person launch the app and
find the correct button to push? I have toyed around with the Accessibility
Features on the iPhone, is there a mode that will speak out what you are
tapping on?

~~~
johlindenbaum
You should try VoiceOver and the gestures that come with it, it's mind blowing
how well it works. I've found plenty of usability improvements that are really
easy to make so that VoiceOver works flawlessly in apps I've worked on.

~~~
tobiasdm
Let me know if you find any ways to improve Be My Eyes related to Voice Over.
Or help out here [https://github.com/bemyeyes/bemyeyes-
ios](https://github.com/bemyeyes/bemyeyes-ios)!

------
yawz
Could someone who has used the app tell us about the real-life experience
please?

~~~
khebbie
Well I have used the app as both blind and sighted. A blind person simply
presses a button which sends requests to a helper. If the helper does not have
time, the api sends a request to another helper. When a helper takes the call,
he/she gets a video and audio stream from the blind persons phone. The blind
person gets an audio stream from the sighted person.

A conversion about the problem to be solved can now take place. Whenever the
blind or sighted person wishes to disconnect, they press a button and the call
is finished.

Is that what you were asking for?

~~~
yawz
Yes, thank you. I was also wondering what kind of problems this app is
solving. I'm not visually impaired so I'm probably not good at imagining real-
world scenarios where this app can be useful. It sounds like a great idea and
very promising.

~~~
khebbie
Well: "Does my socks match" "Is this milk too old" "which of the three cans in
front of me is the coconut milk" Only the imagination of the users sets the
limit...

~~~
yawz
I'm assuming (maybe wrongly and naively) that those are already solved
problems. I'm assuming a visually impaired person already has his/her routines
to avoid those problems. That's why I wanted to hear from the users of the
app. For example, a volunteer who helped someone.

~~~
JshWright
Here's an example from real life (in person, not via this app).

I have a buddy who is blind. In the US, paper currency is all the same size
and shape, so it's impossible to distinguish them by feel alone. He uses a
system of folds to remember which bill is which, but if he drops one, or the
cashier doesn't tell him what the denominations are, etc..., he ends up not
know which bill is which. Occasionally that means he has to ask someone,
despite having a 'routine' that is generally very effective.

~~~
GabrielF00
There are scanners that a blind person can keep in their pocket or on a
keychain that will scan currency and speak the denomination.

[http://www.orbitresearch.com/ibill_details.php](http://www.orbitresearch.com/ibill_details.php)

~~~
mcguire
iBill® Talking Banknote Identifier, $119 with free shipping.

------
Cieplak
Reminds me of [http://pornfortheblind.org/](http://pornfortheblind.org/)
(nsfw) which is a service where people watch and narrate videos for blind
people.

------
greggman
After listening to the latest This American Life the first thing that occurs
to me is though the intentions of this are good and their are some good uses
for it this might have unintended consequences

The EP of This American Life is that basically with a little practice most
blind people can learn to see with echolocation. Yes I know it sounds
incredible but listen to the episode. The TL;DL version would be

(1) blind people can learn to echolocate

(2) MRI scans prove they are actually seeing, no colors but shapes

(3) People that could see but then went blind and learned to echolocate
confirm they can see.

(4) The fact that most people think blind people can't do anything and need
and then offer so much help prevents most blind people from learning to
echolocate and start seeing.

don't shoot the messenger.

[http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-
archives/episode/544/b...](http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-
archives/episode/544/batman)

------
thret
It might be nice if your SO/parent/etc could get first priority, and then
outsource if they are not available. That way couples could use the app for
their own convenience too.

------
fredley
I watched Charlie Brooker's new Black Mirror episode 'White Christmas'
recently, and it deals with technology not entirely dissimilar to this. Well
worth a watch.

------
troymc
There's a similar market to connect students with tutors, e.g. "I'm stuck on
this physics homework problem, can you help me right now?"

Examples:

[http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/blog/2014/12/15/quickhelp...](http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/blog/2014/12/15/quickhelp-
quickteach-apps-harvard/)

[http://www.astutetutoring.com/](http://www.astutetutoring.com/)

------
tobiasdm
The entire project is Open Source – check it out on
[http://github.com/bemyeyes/](http://github.com/bemyeyes/) !

------
nagiek
Why would a blind person carry a touch screen phone??

~~~
ssalenik
Both iOS and Android now have pretty good accessibility features for the
blind. I think iOS is still slightly ahead though. Basically the phone reads
out the button or action when you put your finger over it and you have to
double tap to click. When you go to a new screen, it reads out the contents.

You can try it yourself if you have an iOS or Android phone by enabling the
feature. But I've met blind people who use their touch screen smart phones
every day.

------
djb_hackernews
Great application of remote crowdsourced guidance.

Of course the end game is to allow remote "workers" to take control of
appliances in your home to do certain tasks that aren't easy to automate yet,
ie clear the dinner table, wash the dishes, clean up after the dog, etc.

Another lucrative application would be remote operation of heavy machinery.
Imagine road work with no "Men at Work" signs.

------
frantzmiccoli
I have installed the app on my iPhone 6, tried to use my Facebook account (but
I prefer OAuth to setting up a Facebook account on my device), so I have
created an account (through email address) and now the application just
crashes every time I launch it.

I have uninstalled it and logged in again, but the crash loop is coming back.

Otherwise your concept is great, but the app needs improvements from here.

~~~
khebbie
Can you please send an email to info@bemyeyes.org with the details, as we are
very interested in fixing this issue

------
wiradikusuma
Looks like a novel idea! I'm wondering what's the purpose of giving "points"
to the helpers? I can't find anywhere in the website mentioning the points'
purpose.

It's a non-profit/charity, and (I think) people understand they won't get
anything in return (other than good feeling), what's with the points? (pure
curiosity)

~~~
TeMPOraL
Gamification. "Internet points" have a way to boost one's self-esteem while
not perverting as much as monetary rewards do. Even though I totally want to
help for free, I'd personally like to look every now and then and see how many
people I've helped over time, just to boost my feelings of self-worth.

------
putzdown
Curious: a couple of the images of "blind" eyes show eyes with no pupils.
Forgive my ignorance, but is this common among blind people, or is it a
Photoshopism? If a Photoshopism, then is it wise for a website offering
services for the blind to misrepresent the physiology of blindness?

~~~
williwu
They are all pictures of actual blind people. There are no "Photoshopism"
involved other than the usual enhancing brightness or contrast etc.

------
chiurox
This would not work in Brazil, at least currently, where our 3G/4G are
laughable... But it's a good start. The machine learning applicability could
be awesome. Maybe one day we can have a smartphone guiding the blind without
the need for an actual human to be on the other side.

------
ctdonath
Sounds like a prime candidate for Amazon's Mechanical Turks. Vet & train a
core group, and pay them to narrate pictures/video. Not hard work, not high
pay, but (as a friend has found) there are competent people willing to do such
work for humble pay.

------
yellowapple
Yet another iPhone-only application. I guess I won't be helping blind people
as an Android peasant ;)

Great concept, though, and it being FOSS is a huge plus in my book (and will
probably help with developing more applications around this for non-iOS
platforms).

------
tersiag
Great idea guys, this will benefit the visual impairment community greatly :).
I had a similar idea several years ago but for the web. Where you could use a
sighted person's eyes to navigate a webpage.

------
ianferrel
I just downloaded it, and I'm stuck at the "please enable the following to
fully join the Be My Eyes network". I approved all the permissions. Nothing's
happening.

iOS 8.something on an iPhone5.

~~~
borabey
iOS 7 here, had same problem.

just switch between apps, it goes normal but there's no direct transition.

------
MrBra
Now that's one of those ideas that are so ingenious that it's actually giving
me chills. Also, it's always great when IT improves people health condition.

------
RIMR
Watch out for 4chan. They posted a bunch of strobing GIFs in a epilepsy forum
a while back. I wouldn't put it past them to find exploiting this app
hilarious...

~~~
tobiasdm
Currently we have builtin abuse reports in the app, if either end of a call
thinks something is odd. Hopefully we can catch abuse through this mechanism.

Please let us know if you hear about anything like this in relation to Be My
Eyes – sounds horrible.

------
josephjrobison
This seems amazing and world changing. Would love to see more apps like this.
Downloading now...

------
Oras
Great idea, very pleased to see app with this passion to help and change.
Great work

------
jdstafford
Crossing the street? Really??

------
jsta
Am I the only person that saw this app and immediately thought of google
glass?

------
hellbanner
Mostly sighted users on this app.. when will I be able to see for someone?

------
elwell
Now my eyes are watering. Good job on the introduction video.

------
dyeje
Any chance of an Android version?

Edit: Sorry, should have looked at the FAQ.

------
dimman
Thanks, really, for showing hope for humanity.

------
armed10
Does the app keep in mind that it's nearly impossible for blind people to
operate a smartphone? There's no keyboard or braille on such a device.

~~~
damncabbage
The iPhone has VoiceOver, and there are bluetooth Braille keyboards/displays
for typing.

This page goes into a bit more detail:
[https://andreashead.wikispaces.com/How+Do+Blind+People+Use+a...](https://andreashead.wikispaces.com/How+Do+Blind+People+Use+an+iPad,+iPod,+or+iPhone)

------
bvanslyke
The small heading "Blind Requests Assistance" should probably be rephrased.
You don't wanna use a disability as a noun like that.

------
beauzero
Ok...that is just cool.

------
ohaio
Oh what happens if a serial killer uses it to lure blind people in?

