
SAP open sources UI development toolkit "SAPUI5" - blahbap
http://sap.github.io/openui5/
======
bobx11
Having worked with SAP via ABAP and Java back in the day (and hating it) I can
still feel the soul of SAP through these web apps. They still feel incredibly
slow and bloated for what they do. Their market dominance is driven by the FUD
of other technologies unfortunately, so they need to create their own front-
end javascript framework to keep the mystique going about how computer systems
are complicated without SAP. On the other hand, when the SAP people retire I'd
imagine they'll be completely out of business because no CTO in 20 years is
going to get behind an SAP implementation as they work today.

~~~
droopyEyelids
It will be called SalesForce then.

~~~
jedmeyers
As if SalesForce is any better.

------
bsaul
SAP Hana is actually a pretty interesting technology for developing data
analysis website. It's a DB integrated with a web server and it automatically
builds web services that let you query the data. It also provides a html/js
framework to easily display and drill down (i think SAPUI5 is tied to that
framework, or even is that framework).

They even got an amazon AMI to start developping quickly without paying the
license upfront. Unfortunately the IDE which you use to build the webapp
requires Windows.

hint : i don't work for SAP at all. I just discovered that technology a few
weeks ago and it was pretty weird for me since i've always associated SAP to
big, bloated, clumsy, and hyper expensive tools, for the enterprise only.

~~~
Argorak
SAP is a strangely technology-driven company on the inside.

They just solve a horrible problem: implementing everyones business process as
they find them at the client, instead of the other way around, with legacy
support for ages.

(disclaimer: I worked for SAP as an intern, a few years ago)

~~~
qznc
SAP (or Salesforce or whatever) comes in. Client wants new tech, but keep the
business process the same. Lots of wasted money, tears, and anger. Client
adapts business process.

The problem is that most enterprise do not reach the last step.

------
filearts
This is not one of the companies that I might have anticipated open sourcing
this type of project. I hope that this helps other LargeCorps begin looking at
open source as a reasonable business decision.

I salute SAP for the initiative and hope more follow suit.

~~~
sirion
Since the project started the developer fought for this internally. Finally
they won.

~~~
filearts
Interesting, I was thinking that SAP might have opened this up to help broaden
the base of developers who are comfortable working with their technology. I
just assumed that there must be some business logic underlying the move.

I imagine that an open-source javascript project would be a great deal more
approachable than proprietary ABAP for developers exploring new career paths.

~~~
easytiger
Yea that's isn't how SAP work. They only want inhouse developers developing on
their platforms

------
vanni
Nice set of font icons included (licensed as Apache License 2.0 too I think,
so you can use them standalone elsewhere):

Icon Explorer: [https://openui5.hana.ondemand.com/test-
resources/sap/m/demok...](https://openui5.hana.ondemand.com/test-
resources/sap/m/demokit/icon-explorer/index.html)

Uncategorized icons: [https://openui5.hana.ondemand.com/test-
resources/sap/ui/core...](https://openui5.hana.ondemand.com/test-
resources/sap/ui/core/Icon.html)

Class sap.ui.core.Icon reference:
[https://openui5.hana.ondemand.com/#docs/api/symbols/sap.ui.c...](https://openui5.hana.ondemand.com/#docs/api/symbols/sap.ui.core.Icon.html)

~~~
vanni
You can find the SAP-icons.ttf and SAP-icons.eot files into the following
folders inside the UI5 Runtime zip file: resources/sap/ui/core/themes/*/fonts/

The copyright lines inside the font files say: Copyright (c) 2013 by Gerard
Keane SAP AG Visual Design. All rights reserved. Copyright (c) 2013 by SAP AG
Visual Design. All rights reserved.

But I still think that the Apache License 2.0 applies here too.

~~~
dstroii
The copyright issue should be fixed. Looks like this was generated
automatically by the software ;)

~~~
vanni
At first I thought you were part of the team and already fixed the font
license issue on the public website, but I just checked and nothing seems to
have been changed.

So maybe I misinterpreted your comment, and you are not part of the team, but
just saying that this issue need to be fixed, and that probably it is there
because of automatic generation.

Could you please clarify the meaning of your comment? Thanks! :)

------
aaronbrethorst
6MB, 150 files, interminably slow load times, a crazy-looking, complicated,
Java-inspired API, and poor text contrast? Yeah, that's about what I was
expecting from a UI toolkit from SAP. Makes me sad.

------
CSDude
I liked the UI because it is compact. I know they are not the only
alternative, but I hate default padding and margin values of Bootstrap. Not
everyone has retina or 4K displays. It is more suitable for desktop
application where you need many components to be displayed, and you have a
mouse to navigate. Bootstrap is good in the other way around.

~~~
smrtinsert
Yeah bootstrap doesn't really have an enterprise look to it. Arguably the
enterprise look is uncool though, so that's not surprising. wrapbootstrap has
stuff that almost bridges the gap, erring on the cool side of things though. I
doubt most enterprises want something that sleek looking.

In short, make your enterprise software look like the Microsoft suite of the
day and you should be ok. I think Extjs fails in that regard, it used to look
fresh though.

------
watty
Lots of negative comments on HN, surprise surprise. Seems like an enormous
amount of code, we should be happy it's now open source for others to use and
learn from.

~~~
jeswin
Most of the criticism is valid though, in this case. This is a genuinely poor
UI framework.

1\. This is extjs, like someone else was mentioning below.

2\. Why would you supplant native HTML/CSS capabilities with shit like new
sap.ui.commons.TextView({ layoutData : new sap.ui.layout.GridData({ span : "L4
M6 S12"...

3\. The problem is that the entire approach is outdated, and fairly slow and
bloated on my machine. Coding with this is going to be as interesting as
legacy Java and .Net "thick client" apps.

~~~
brd
I think SAP deserves some praise for open sourcing some real work. Beyond that
I agree with your critique, this framework is not going to make inroads in the
larger web community.

However, keep in mind that this is an SAP tool geared towards the SAP
ecosystem and it will ultimately be a pretty big deal within that space.

As an SAP developer I am happy to see any progress towards more modern
practices and better technologies and SAPUI5 is, without a doubt, progress.

------
kitsune_
A UI toolkit from SAP, that's rich.

------
steinermatt
What to makeof this thread? I see bias all around - on both sides of the
house! Sure, it's always fun to be thrashing the big guys ("evil empires") and
cheer for the under dog.

Those who have been watching more closely (IMHO, the only ones entitled to
raise public critism) would back me up in saying that there has been an
ongoing change for the better and SAP has really been opening up to the
broader developer community - empowering developers and lowering the entry
barrier!

SAP offers free education and free developer licenses so it's easier than ever
to get started. At the end of the day, it's all about making a living as a
software developer and hence I believe this is a positive trend... And one
that should be acknowledged in a positive way.

------
elsewhat
The basic overview blog is well worth reading
[http://scn.sap.com/community/developer-center/front-
end/blog...](http://scn.sap.com/community/developer-center/front-
end/blog/2013/12/11/what-is-openui5-sapui5)

~~~
computer
And the linked "Reasons to open-source this toolkit" at
[http://scn.sap.com/community/developer-center/front-
end/blog...](http://scn.sap.com/community/developer-center/front-
end/blog/2013/11/20/reasons-why-sap-should-open-source-sapui5).

------
blahbap
Here is a direct link to documentation and examples of all the controls in the
UI library

[https://openui5.hana.ondemand.com/#content/Controls/index.ht...](https://openui5.hana.ondemand.com/#content/Controls/index.html)

------
ch0wn
If you're interested, we have a TodoMVC example for SAPUI5:
[http://todomvc.com/labs/architecture-
examples/sapui5/](http://todomvc.com/labs/architecture-examples/sapui5/)

~~~
lightblade
Took over 5 seconds to load. I don't like this.

------
hawleyal
Looks like UI kits from 3 years ago.

~~~
infinite_snoop
Compared to SAP GUI screens this is like an advanced alien technology.

[https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=sap+gui&espv=210&es_sm=93&...](https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=sap+gui&espv=210&es_sm=93&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=5JmoUsmyGIKF4ASyt4D4Ag&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1600&bih=755#imgdii=_)

------
elsewhat
The most interesting components in this library is in the sap.m namespace.
They are a core part of the new UI strategy of the SAP and are often referred
to as Fiori (see more at
[https://experience.sap.com/fiori#demos](https://experience.sap.com/fiori#demos)).
Designed to handle responsive design and mobile OS device adaptions. Perfect
for combining with a hybrid container such as Cordova/Phonegap (though size-
wise they need to be optimized more ref
[http://scn.sap.com/community/developer-center/front-
end/blog...](http://scn.sap.com/community/developer-center/front-
end/blog/2013/11/26/why-i-want-my-fiori-to-be-lean-fast))

A lot of them are high-level components such as IconTabBar
[https://openui5.hana.ondemand.com/test-
resources/sap/m/demok...](https://openui5.hana.ondemand.com/test-
resources/sap/m/demokit/explored/index.html#/sample/iconTabBarProcess)

TileContainer [https://openui5.hana.ondemand.com/test-
resources/sap/m/demok...](https://openui5.hana.ondemand.com/test-
resources/sap/m/demokit/explored/index.html#/sample/tileContainer) Lists
[https://openui5.hana.ondemand.com/test-
resources/sap/m/demok...](https://openui5.hana.ondemand.com/test-
resources/sap/m/demokit/explored/index.html#/sample/listItemObject)

Forms [https://openui5.hana.ondemand.com/test-
resources/sap/m/demok...](https://openui5.hana.ondemand.com/test-
resources/sap/m/demokit/explored/index.html#/sample/form480)

------
bdg
Am I the only one this isn't working for? I see comments in here describing
all sorts of things but the demo and doc pages only give me JS errors:

> Uncaught TypeError: Cannot set property 'OS' of null sap-ui-core.js:152

> Uncaught TypeError: Cannot call method 'getUriParameters' of undefined
> openui5.hana.ondemand.com/:35

I just see a blank page.

~~~
mkname
Same here. After setting the user agent to IE 8 the page renders fine. (I
guess it can't handle FreeBSD)

~~~
bdg
I'm also a user of FreeBSD.

I've created a pull request to address the issue.

[https://github.com/Incognito/openui5/commit/09a1b50bf73bc6bd...](https://github.com/Incognito/openui5/commit/09a1b50bf73bc6bd6f07c4c4fe47fc8bf41af6dd)

------
jasper_07
Seeing lots of comparisons to ExtJS, in many ways it is similar, but it is
also a lot like Dojo and even Backbone.

Would hope in time we see a proper comparision like in
[http://coding.smashingmagazine.com/2012/07/27/journey-
throug...](http://coding.smashingmagazine.com/2012/07/27/journey-through-the-
javascript-mvc-jungle/)

Where SAPUI5 excels is in providing an easy and consistent way to interact
with SAP based backends. Anyone who has tried to do this with other frameworks
will appreciate the complexity, SAP themselves have used and are using SAPUI5
for developing many application across the globe. It has been used in anger
and been proven to be very extensible and scalable, the kind of things you
look for as a Enterprise Developer.

------
leokun
It's very cool and immensely impressive, but the web moves fast and it's
interesting to note how quickly previous everything and the kitchen sink and
or ui libraries become dated. Just look to dojo, jquery ui, ext.js, jquery
mobile, even Cappuccino looks dated (take a look at [http://www.cappuccino-
project.org/learn/demos/LightsOff/](http://www.cappuccino-
project.org/learn/demos/LightsOff/) for example).

Big libraries can't move fast, and can't adapt to all the latest things
easily, like reactivity, flat ui, new features like webrtc, persistent
websockets instead of REST, etc.

~~~
watty
And the web will continue moving fast and soon enough "flat" ui will look
dated. This is why it can be themed:

[https://openui5.hana.ondemand.com/#docs/guide/ThemingFAQ.htm...](https://openui5.hana.ondemand.com/#docs/guide/ThemingFAQ.html)

~~~
leokun
jQuery UI can be themed, there's a flat theme, few people use it. Those who do
were already using jQuery UI and searched for it.

------
d55
The amount of different controls is impressive. The design, not so much. Look
at those emphasized buttons, for example.

~~~
blahbap
Not so long ago, SAP released a suite of applications under the brand "Fiori"
\- these apps are responsivea, have a uniform look and feel and are much more
pleasing to the eye.

Here is an example from the Demokit: [https://openui5.hana.ondemand.com/test-
resources/sap/m/demok...](https://openui5.hana.ondemand.com/test-
resources/sap/m/demokit/poa/index.html)

~~~
tmikaeld
This looks really good, but doesn't seem to be part of the open sourced UI? If
it is, i can't find it.

~~~
blahbap
It is part of the library - you'll find the Fiori controls under the sap.m
(for "mobile") namespace in the API section.

It's the "SplitApp" element that gives you the nice looking, responsive
container (I was not able to find a good code sample right away).

------
benigeri
Why is it so slow?

~~~
baudehlo
It's 400KB of minified Javascript. Compare with some other large-ish
libraries:

Angular: 97KB jQuery: 90KB jQueryUI: 87KB

It takes a while to load and compile.

~~~
lenkite
To be truly fair, you need to compare this against ext-js which is ~700KB

------
lightblade
This looks like ExtJS, but worse than ExtJS.

------
dschiptsov
Oh my, that "Delphi mentality" in 2013..) ExtJS, if I remember correctly, is 5
or 6 years old already?) But we, no doubt, will read about ground-breaking
innovations from their PR machine.)

Is there any info which "startup" they have acquired or in what third-world
country it was outsourced?)

~~~
blahbap
There was nothing in your comment that made sense to me at all.

>> Oh my, that "Delphi mentality" in 2013..)

What's "Delphi mentality"?

>> ExtJS, if I remember correctly, is 5 or 6 years old already?

Why do you bring up ExtJS?

>> Is there any info which "startup" they have acquired or in what third-world
country it was outsourced?

UI5 was developed in-house by SAP - not sure where it happened, but I think
that particular bit of your comment reeks of arrogance and chauvinism

~~~
dschiptsov
> Why do you bring up ExtJS?

Because it is an JS UI library of the very same kind which were around for
years, isn't it?

Not sure about arrogance, but yes, I do hate SAP because I have seen it in
production.)

~~~
blahbap
Well, you could be forgiven for disliking SAP based on your experiences with
their old UI - but UI5 is luckily their attempt to remedy the situation.

------
frik
The date-picker has a bug, it shows calendar week "53" instead of 1 (first
week of 2014):
[http://postimg.org/image/faubokz5b/](http://postimg.org/image/faubokz5b/)

SAPUI5 is good, finally they can replace the outdated Netweavers Web UI with
its horrible JS code.

~~~
adnam
It's probably defaulting to the 4-4-5 calendar used in finance or something.

~~~
frik
maybe.

I think they coded it for European style calendar format "Monday" = first day
of week, as SAP is a german company. I wrote a datepicker in JavaScript and it
had similar bugs in one of the calendar formats too.

