
Women Lose Out to Men Even Before They Graduate College - lambda_lover
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-women-professional-inequality-college/
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nicolashahn
I'm in a relevant position - I'm a 25y/o male computer programmer who lives
with (along with several other people, and not in a relationship with) a 27y/o
female preschool teacher - we both represent the most common jobs for our
gender according to the article.

We both started college virtually opposing positions - I came in as an Art
major, she a Bio major, with the intention of medical school. At some point,
we both realized what we valued was incompatible with our majors - I wanted to
build things, work on hard, concrete challenges, and make money, so I switched
to CS. After she graduated, she took a long time reflecting on what she wanted
in her future, and eventually realize what she wanted to do was to work with
children (she has an extremely strong maternal personality), so she became a
teacher, despite the pay and that she had the grades to go to medical school -
to her, being able to work with kids and have a balanced life (impossible for
years with medical school and residency) is far more meaningful than money.
She also has a stable relationship with a caring boyfriend who also works, so
her being able to complete support herself isn't a priority. I'm an extremely
independent person (a stereotypically male trait), and am somewhat neurotic
about money due to my parent's passed down habits. I wanted a job where I
would have a good blend of financial stability, freedom, and challenge -
software engineer checks all the boxes.

I realize this is completely anecdotal, but also likely archetypal for many
others. For what it's worth, I make much more than her, but she's a happier
person than I am - despite her "losing out." We're measuring success wrong, at
least for a large segment of the population.

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wyldfire
I think this data is great and there's a lot to learn from it. It just seems
like reporting annual salaries might not be appropriately normalized, though.
Hourly wages would be much clearer, IMO.

Women are not the same as men, and many women rank their role in family
activities higher than their professional development. If they choose to spend
less time at work, then they would likely earn a lower annual salary.

Since the problem that we want to focus on is whether and when women earn less
due to discrimination, that issue is confounded by this data. Though I
sympathize that the ACS data that's readily available probably doesn't track
that. Maybe it should.

EDIT: I thought I was fair in my criticism but I have attracted downvotes.
Let's discuss: what do you think about what I said?

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nathanaldensr
I'm not sure why you're being downvoted. Yours is an opinion shared by many
folks, and is the most common-sense explanation about career differences
between men and women: they want different things. Obviously, things happen to
both men _and_ women that either encourage or prevent certain career choices.
Obviously, not to the same degrees. We should at least be able to apply
Occam's razor to this issue as we do to many other issues.

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justaman
Perhaps we should be praising women for deciding to embrace the work/life
balance to a greater degree than men instead of viewing it as a problem that
needs to be fixed. Biology certainly plays a role in this.

~~~
hirundo
Another way of saying it is that both men and women have about the same
internal work/life balance, but for more men work _is_ life.

~~~
belorn
Considering the direct correlation between high earnings and dating success, I
would agree.

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DoreenMichele
I was a homemaker for a lot of years. I dropped out of college to follow my
husband's military career. I spent years looking at available opportunities to
further my education at every new duty station and finding them largely
lacking.

I eventually completed an AA in Humanities to lock in my old credits so I
wouldn't have to start over completely. I then began pursuing a bachelor's
that supported my goal of becoming an urban planner. I also completed a
Certificate in GIS, the equivalent of Master's level work.

Then I began applying to jobs and internship programs. My resume had a high
call back rate, but I wasn't ever offered a job in my field. I ultimately got
a job at an insurance company.

I don't know why I never managed to get an urban planning or GIS job. Maybe
lack of interview skills. Maybe lack of job hunting skills. Maybe the many
years I spent as a homemaker made my resume not adequately impressive.

But then I had a job in something else and I was busy trying to make my life
work during a divorce accompanied by health drama. One day led to another and
with each passing day I had more experience in insurance and it was another
day further away from when I got my Certificate in GIS.

And now a lot of years have passed. I did apply for a job in my field recently
and I did get past the initial stage, though I did not get the job. And maybe
I should just keep looking for jobs in my field, though it has been a lot of
years. But there tend to be few such jobs in any given geographic area, they
typically require a driver's license and I no longer drive.

I was one of the top students of my graduating high school class. I've done a
lot of therapy and introspection. I tend to understand myself and my life
better than average. Yet, I don't have some clear cut explanation for why I
failed to get my dream job. I usually describe it as "I wanted to be an urban
planner before life got in the way."

So, as I read this article that frames itself as knowing the psychological
underpinnings for different outcomes and frames it as based primarily on
choice, I find myself skeptical. That seems a little too convenient. I don't
think most lives are quite so clear cut.

