
Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin - etoykan
https://techcrunch.com/2019/11/12/elon-musk-picks-berlin-for-teslas-europe-gigafactory/
======
iagooar
It is great news for Berlin (and Brandenburg) as it will bring (big) money and
attract talent. It might even attract people from Poland which is only an hour
drive away and has a large pool of very talented and experienced engineers. So
far besides maybe Siemens there wasn't too much industry here, which is more
present in the south of the country.

Being outside of the city center it won't contribute too much to
gentrification and probably it will help Brandenburg getting more people to
live there, pay taxes, buy property, shop, etc.

So far reactions have been neutral to good, which by Berlin standards is an
amazing result.

I kind of wonder if the decision of bringing the factory to Berlin wasn't
based on the amount of software engineering talent that is available, more
than the more traditional engineers.

In any case, I'm happy about Tesla coming to Germany, interesting times!

~~~
lnsru
It’s interesting what kind of talent one needs for a factory. Engineers? I
doubt... These will be simple workers, couple equipment operators with some
education. All the blueprints are coming from Tesla’s HQ anyway, so not much
engineering needed. There is also Tesla in Germany that does all the
engineering:
[https://teslagrohmannautomation.de/de/](https://teslagrohmannautomation.de/de/)

~~~
neuronic
You are thinking of engineering the cars itself. However, in a factory like
this, engineering is much more than that. Engineering, maintaining, and
improving the factory won't be an exclusive gig from across the Atlantic (+
Great Plains + Rockys).

Aside from that, Brandenburg is rich grounds for the other staff a factory
needs. You can combine cheaper EU-labor with mid-range jobs very well in
Germany.

The only thing Tesla could face which it wont like are unions and workers
rights because Germans sure won't put up with 100 hour work weeks or similar
business practices.

~~~
C1sc0cat
Shows you how bad Brexit is for the UK that Tesla chose Germany over the UK.

Maybe like Italy we need reserved seats in the House of Lords for Engineering
and STEM peers.

~~~
Zenst
Do you have any proof that Tesla was going to build a plant in the UK before?
Or are you overlooking how Germany has manufacturing and infrastructure more
suited to building cars over all other EU members, including the UK!

~~~
donpott
Elon himself has cited Brexit uncertainty as a reason for choosing Germany
over the UK.

Source: [https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/13/tesla-
cit...](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/13/tesla-cites-brexit-
as-germany-chosen-over-uk-for-european-plant-elon-musk)

~~~
Zenst
He also said “Some of the best cars in the world are made in Germany. Everyone
knows that German engineering is outstanding, for sure, and that’s part of the
reason why we are locating our gigafactory Europe in Germany. We are also
going to create an engineering and design centre in Berlin.”

Thing is with Brexit, you have 50% wanting to leave, 50% wanting to stay and a
proportional represented result being playout out by a first past the post
system, yielding all sorts of chaotic stagnation. Which all gets blamed upon
the initial proportional vote.

Hence if any business is asked about the UK, the whole uncertainty and chaos
will come up in the subject. Just that people love to presume that was the
single reason and without that things would be different. I don't see any
reason or indication from Elon or Tesla to of picked the UK, even without the
current climate of chaos and limbo finger pointing politics.

~~~
donpott
I think we would probably both agree that it wasn't the _only_ factor, but it
was _a_ factor.

~~~
rob74
Plus, while congratulating the winners, it's more tactful to mention the
reasons that made you decide in their favour rather than saying "we would have
gone to the UK, if not for Brexit".

------
propercoil
Good strategy from Treelon overall. You'll have Tesla producing cars and
employing thousands of workers in the U.S, China & Germany so that no one
would stifle the company's path towards autonomous EV's.

This will produce pressure on Europe to ease for instance the AI regulations
and basically removed Customs tax from many other countries because Tesla can
send the cars from three different locations.

I just don't understand why Tesla is slow in expanding to other countries.
Here in Israel we don't have Teslas and it's an extremely innovative place
with very good conditions for an EV as Israel stretches 424 km (263 mi) from
north to south. like two or three charging locations and you're done.

~~~
jayalpha
I don't understand your post at all.

"so that no one would stifle the company's path towards autonomous EV's."

Who is "stifling"? And many companies work on autonomous cars.

"This will produce pressure on Europe to ease for instance the AI regulations"

What AI regulations in Europe? And what is Europe? The EU?

"and basically removed Customs tax"

This is not how custom taxes work. The EU is one of the biggest free trade
zone in the world. If Mercosul joins, it is the biggest.

"I just don't understand why Tesla is slow in expanding to other countries.
Here in Israel we don't have Teslas and it's an extremely innovative place"

Because Tesla is burning through cash like a motherfucker. And Israel is a
tiny place. This is also why, to my knowledge, nobody build cars in Israel. I
mean, why not Dubai?

~~~
propercoil
EU regulations prohibit the turning angle of the wheel unlike the U.S. You
simply can’t navigate on autopilot in the same way. Also the EU makes money
from the auto companies in their jurisdiction and they don’t want a U.S auto
company competing with them. Now that Tesla opens a factory in Germany
“massages” things.

The customs tax is in regards to countries/jurisdictions other than the ones
with the Tesla factories. For instance a country like Israel might have a 20%
tariff from Europe but 0% from China due to different bilateral deals so Tesla
will send cars from there.

Israel is different than Dubai because literally a third of the population are
in the tech space. Israel’s main export is tech and the tech ecosystem will
build on-top of Tesla (Waze for example was founded here and there are many
auto security startups for instance).

~~~
t0ddbonzalez
>"EU regulations prohibit the turning angle of the wheel unlike the U.S. You
simply can’t navigate on autopilot in the same way."

I've never heard anyone complaining that their car is too safe.

How many people have been killed in autopilot-related accidents in Europe vs
the US?

>"Also the EU makes money from the auto companies in their jurisdiction and
they don’t want a U.S auto company competing with them."

Carmakers can make cars in the EU and pay taxes. Or they can import them from
the US and pay tariffs.

Exactly as EU carmakers are treated in the US...

~~~
propercoil
I wouldn't say limiting the wheel's sharp turn when you need it to do a sharp
turn is safe.

No one said that Europe is doing something that the U.S wouldn't do in return.
Just stating the facts as they are.

------
vertex-four
Watching a SV company suddenly have to deal with German workers' rights
(think: unions, significant protection from being fired without cause, rights
to paid holiday and enforced maternity leave, even workers' councils which
have representation at a management level) is going to be hilarious.

~~~
roomey
I get you are joking, but there are two points that I would like to raise:

There are many, many SV companies with large offices in parts of the world
with very strong workers rights. I work in one of these. There is no problem,
other then I'm not expected to work weekends and be on-call at unreasonable
hours. If this is required I would need to be compensated for it.

Secondly; perhaps I am reading into this, but I get the sense you are implying
that "less work" will be done due to these protections. You may be surprised
to find out that German factories are actually quite efficient ;) , and that
treating workers well gets them to work more, not less. Having a healthcare
system that means you can bring your children to A&E at the weekend and not
get caught for $1000s means you can come to work on Monday with a clear head.

Having protection from "right to work" means you can voice an opposing opinion
without fear.

Having a paid holiday means you can come back to work refreshed with a clear
mind, and not "burn out" as fast.

Having maternity, and paternity leave, means happier parents (like, in a
abstract way, not like in a oh I haven't slept in 8 months I'm soooo happy
way). Let's call it out here. Giving children a good start in life sets them
up for success.

On a global team you can quite clearly see the results of the different work
environments, and the various impacts each environment has. From a tech point
of view, I see this most critically in the ability to voice controversial
opinions, or push back against your manager for example.

~~~
vertex-four
I’m outside the SV bubble for the most part, the “joke” if there was one was
that Tesla is going to have serious culture clash if they try to treat their
German workers like their workers elsewhere, and I’m going to be reading about
the resulting court cases for years.

~~~
hef19898
Rumour has it that Amazon has a dedicated judge at the labour court in Munich.
Just the existance of such a rumour is telling you a lot.

~~~
dx034
Because of their warehouse operations nearby or other functions? I always
thought they treat people in their offices better than their warehouses?

~~~
hef19898
There is only one warehouse nearby, Munich is the German HQ so. Let's just say
that Amazon likes to use the applicable laws to the fullest. Sometimes that
means getting an official verdict at court.

------
choeger
Please drop your inevitable BER jokes below so we can recylce them properly
later.

~~~
jcranmer
Wait, so if I have this correct, the airport took ~6 years to construct and 9
years and counting to correct problems with its construction? Meaning that it
would have been faster to tear the entire building down and rebuild it from
scratch than it is taking to remedy the issues?

 _How_ does that happen‽

~~~
usrusr
According to lore, it all started with the architect deciding against the
tried and tested usage of little chimney-like structure on top of the terminal
roofs for fire protection de-fuming, insisting instead on some novel, less
visible solutions for aesthetic reasons. Those then caused all kinds of
follow-up issues, eventually leading into the construction equivalent of the
perpetual bugfix cycle, where every fix brings two new problems. Compounded by
a colorful parade of high level "fix it guys" taking over the reins and
failing in short progression, adding to the chaos.

~~~
detaro
As far as I remember, the estimation was that the fire system was properly
designed (although more complex for the mentioned artistic reasons) and would
have worked - for the building that was originally planned, which the airport
company then changed massively.

~~~
flukus
Seems like there's a lesson there about sticking to tried and proven solutions
even if you come up with a better one. Or maybe it's a worse is better thing?

------
mellosouls
The Brexiteers scoffing at "Project Fear" and crowing about the uppity
Europeans begging us for our (UK) car business have been strangely quiet on
this one.

~~~
agent008t
To be fair:

1\. Brexit hasn't happened yet. I.e. UK has not been able to introduce
policies that would make it a lot more competitive and friendly for business
than the EU/Germany, make it friendlier for international talent, which is one
of the opportunities created by Brexit.

2\. We do not know what would have happened had Parliament and civil service
been more positive and cooperative on Brexit. It could be a self-fulfilling
prophecy - remainers in Parliament inadvertently creating greater uncertainty,
which in turn drives business away as the leavers are unable to realistically
guarantee a more competitive / friendlier for business Britain in the future.

~~~
agent008t
Could the downvoters please explain the downvoting?

Are you arguing that there is no scenario under which Brexit could make
Britain a more attractive place for business than the EU or Germany?

~~~
JamesLefrere
I’m not OP, but I would argue that. There’s no realistic scenario in which
leaving the single market makes Britain a more attractive place for (most)
businesses.

~~~
agent008t
A combination of:

1\. Extremely easy and friendly immigration policies for world’s top talent -
better than in the US

2\. Legal ability to easily hire and fire people

3\. Legal ability to run a business out of your garage

4\. Lower taxes - income, corporate, capital gains - than in the US

5\. Free trade, even if unilateral, as the US is involved in tariffs and trade
wars

All of this combined, given that the UK is English speaking, could lead to the
UK overtaking Silicon Valley in terms of startups. Most of the world’s top
talent would, all else being equal, prefer to live around Cambridge than in
Palo Alto.

~~~
mellosouls
1\. Plenty of home grown top talent. Nothing wrong with recruiting further
afield, but it's often used to low ball wages and rights.

2\. Workers rights.

3\. I've no idea why you think people don't run businesses from their homes
already.

4\. Depends on the government of the time, and why do you think racing to the
bottom on public funding is a good thing?

5\. We already have free trade. Try getting in tariff battles with no strength
outside the EU.

Tbh all those points seem dubious at best.

~~~
agent008t
I mostly agree with this:
[http://www.paulgraham.com/america.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/america.html)

And I think an argument could be made that being more competitive on all those
points would be easier outside the EU.

I suspect you would disagree with Paul's essay/the goals he outlined, and
that's fine. My point is that if you did agree with his essay, you might see
that Brexit could also open opportunities.

~~~
mellosouls
Thanks for the link, I'll read it later.

I wouldn't dispute there are potential benefits to Brexit, I'm saying there
are no obvious winning arguments, and clear counters to all of yours.

Also by purely framing it in terms of business, you are in danger of making
two errors:

1\. Assuming all business has the same needs, and all business owners have the
same perspective.

2\. Much more importantly, business is just one factor of the national life
affected by the split, and - as pointed out -has a natural tension with other
issues like rights and standards that you haven't addressed.

------
tnolet
I'm curious about how the massive left/anti-fa movement in Berlin will react
to this one.

They kept out Google after massive protests. Not sure this is the same thing
though.

[https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/oct/24/google-
ab...](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/oct/24/google-abandons-
berlin-base-after-two-years-of-resistance)

p.s. I'm based in Berlin. Have no horse in the race except that the Google
office would have been right down the street of where I work.

~~~
pjc50
Tesla isn't particularly political and there's no Fascist angle?

~~~
DanielleMolloy
Can you elaborate on how you think Google is „fascist“?

~~~
jussij
Europe has lived history of governments collecting data on it's citizens.

Since Google openly collects data on it's users, I suspect that fact does not
sit well with that same populous.

~~~
pteredactyl
False comparison. Google users are voluntary. No one forces someone to use
Google like the Government forces someone to pay tax.

~~~
InternetOfStuff
> False comparison. Google users are voluntary.

Not entirely. I can choose not to use Gmail or similar services.

I can opt out of Google ads+tracking only because I'm technically adept
enough. I can't (realistically) opt out of reCaptcha.

~~~
chii
You can opt out of recaptcha by just boycotting the website which uses it.

But of course by "opt out" you mean to remain a user of a service but not the
parts you don't like. Whether you are entitled to do this or not is still up
for debate.

~~~
InternetOfStuff
> You can opt out of recaptcha by just boycotting the website which uses it.

Ah, I was waiting for somebody to make this argument, which I find somewhat
disingenuous given how widespread reCaptcha's use is.

With sites I don't care about leaving them is exactly what I do - but there
are sites I pay a lot of money to use, and can't really avoid using for
business reasons, yet they still subject me to reCaptcha.

The path I've taken instead is to address this with the site owners. Most
weren't really aware of how overreaching reCaptcha feels to some, and I've had
good discussions. Of course nobody changed their site based on my complaint,
but I like to think I raised awareness.

> But of course by "opt out" you mean to remain a user of a service but not
> the parts you don't like.

Specifically, a part of user verification. I'm still not sure why they feel
they need to verify my humanity - they've got my credit card details and
everything.

> Whether you are entitled to do this or not is still up for debate.

Let me ask the opposite question: is the owner of a website entitled to sell
my privacy for their own (debatable) convenience?

Tbh reCaptcha irks me more than ads.

~~~
TomMarius
>Let me ask the opposite question: is the owner of a website entitled to sell
my privacy for their own (debatable) convenience?

Well yeah, they are, you're accepting that by using the recaptcha widget.
Don't use it and then nobody will sell your data.

------
mdorazio
They obviously needed to get one built in Europe sooner rather than later to
boost marketshare there and stay ahead of demand without needing to ship from
China or the US, but why Berlin? Does anyone know if they got subsidies out of
it?

~~~
jariel
Without knowing the backroom deals - Berlin is a nice choice for things
because it's like 'East Europe wages' with 'West Europe capabilities'.

Germany is a very stable robust economy that might be their #1 'export source'
\- there's a lot of related knowledge - and in a 'cramped Europe' \- the
Berlin area is wide open.

FYI Berlin has 'wide avenue streets' which are totally unlike most other
European places, sometimes it feels like Los Angeles and not Europe.

It might have been possible to go to Czech/Poland but there are just a large
number of 'little things' that can go wrong over there, issues best left to
those who know and operate the market well.

Compound this with the probable politics of the game and it makes sense.

In a way it's the most obvious choice.

~~~
Gravityloss
I have heard that a working legal system is one way for a country to attract
long term investment. There is less risk that some politician's friend ends up
claiming your factory grounds.

There are ways yo try to "hack it" like subsidies or having personal relations
with someone high up but I don't know how cost effective and long term they
really are.

So if people want long term improvement, they should vote for a strong legal
system instead of "I personally brought this factory here".

~~~
jariel
It's the 'legal system' \- and everything else.

German/French car companies, with long and historic ties on many levels to
say, Poland, can fathom the risk of going there, especially with a long term
view.

Volskwagen can plan decades ahead in some facets.

It takes 'a whole team' i.e. government (local, Fed, EU), probably
financing/banking on both sides, political buy-in etc..

But for a new US company to go to Czech ... is asking for trouble.

The difference between E/W Europe is definitely centred around competitive
advantage and long-established industries - but I'd argue more than anything
it's 'good governance' at every level, private and public. And it's the same
all over the 'developing' world.

------
tigershark
Thanks Brexit, otherwise it would have been in UK as per Elon:
[https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/tesla/108395/tesla-
gigafactory...](https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/tesla/108395/tesla-gigafactory-
europe-to-be-built-in-germany-not-uk-as-elon-musk-blames-brexit)

------
abstractbarista
Seeing a lot of comments saying their choice is good because it won't
contribute to gentrification.

Doesn't sound right to me. Why is _that_ the first~third thing you're
mentioning? It's almost like we scorn the concept of more people working in an
area towards a positive goal (renewable transport). Yikes.

~~~
Nasrudith
I think it highlights an issue with housing in general - if you judge by
actions instead of words the logical but uncomfortable conclusion is that
/everyone/, poor, middle class, or rich is horribly selfish and unwilling to
agree to any cost which doesn't benefit them directly. From rent control to
property values everyone has a "screw everyone else I have mine" attitude.

I actually start to feel sorry for politicians for a change when they have
people who want mathematical impossibilities.

------
sidcool
How in the world does Tesla execute so fast? The Tesla team seems relentless
in its ambitions.

~~~
grecy
Checkout this internal memo from Elon just as the Model 3 was going into ramp-
up for production:

– Excessive meetings are the blight of big companies and almost always get
worse over time. Please get of all large meetings, unless you’re certain they
are providing value to the whole audience, in which case keep them very short.

– Also get rid of frequent meetings, unless you are dealing with an extremely
urgent matter. Meeting frequency should drop rapidly once the urgent matter is
resolved.

– Walk out of a meeting or drop off a call as soon as it is obvious you aren’t
adding value. It is not rude to leave, it is rude to make someone stay and
waste their time.

– Don’t use acronyms or nonsense words for objects, software or processes at
Tesla. In general, anything that requires an explanation inhibits
communication. We don’t want people to have to memorize a glossary just to
function at Tesla.

– Communication should travel via the shortest path necessary to get the job
done, not through the “chain of command”. Any manager who attempts to enforce
chain of command communication will soon find themselves working elsewhere.

– A major source of issues is poor communication between depts. The way to
solve this is allow free flow of information between all levels. If, in order
to get something done between depts, an individual contributor has to talk to
their manager, who talks to a director, who talks to a VP, who talks to
another VP, who talks to a director, who talks to a manager, who talks to
someone doing the actual work, then super dumb things will happen. It must be
ok for people to talk directly and just make the right thing happen.

– In general, always pick common sense as your guide. If following a “company
rule” is obviously ridiculous in a particular situation, such that it would
make for a great Dilbert cartoon, then the rule should change.

If there is something you think should be done to make Tesla execute better or
allow you to look forward to coming to work more (same thing in the long
term), please send a note to [redacted]

[1] [https://medium.com/@StartupJourney/elon-
musks-6-productivity...](https://medium.com/@StartupJourney/elon-
musks-6-productivity-rules-from-a-letter-he-sent-to-tesla-
employees-b10e3b899da0)

~~~
drchewbacca
Also Elon recently said he has started managing by rhymes. He said

"If the schedule is long it's wrong, if it's tight it's right. The best part
is no part, the best process is no process."

All the hacking away of parts and processes pays off with speed.

------
jansan
According to local news sources, the location of the factory will be at/near
Grünheide near Berlin, roughly here:
[https://goo.gl/maps/orssVTcRQ6hwBTR76](https://goo.gl/maps/orssVTcRQ6hwBTR76)

------
Koremat6666
Why should a GIGA factory be located near the airport and in a city ? A
factory meant to mass produce something should be somewhere the land is cheap
should not it be ?

~~~
danhak
The area immediately around major airports is usually not terribly desirable.
I don’t know about Berlin, specifically.

Also it has to be close enough to the city to make commuting from the
population center reasonable, no?

~~~
pantalaimon
The new train line to the airport is scheduled to open in 2025, then it should
only take 20 minutes there from the city centre.

------
doener
Previous discussion:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21517549](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21517549)

~~~
zwieback
You were cheated, Mr Kebab, upvoted yours.

------
NGC404
The number sold electric vehicles in germany is still exponential not
saturated, the government recently announced to build additional charging
stations across the country in the order of 10 thousands and to increase the
(tax) incentives for hybrid and fully electric cars. It is a good time to
build a factory for electric cars in germany. Berlin is a sweet spot when it
comes to talent in high tech, suppliers and transport connection.

~~~
tannhaeuser
Except Germany has the highest energy prices in Europe, and as long as that
doesn't change drastically, e-mobility is for a minority of enthusiasts and
people who can afford to be bad at math. Just look at actual numbers of
vehicles sold where Diesel still rules. Well, government could raise taxes on
mineral oil (already at 63% [1]), but the German state is already drowning in
cash and could issue bonds with negative yield. Charging stations are also an
area where it goes completely wrong since these are owned and operated by
municipalities and monopolist energy providers. Housing also goes wrong
especially in Berlin where socialist government doesn't seem able to attract
investors and plays ideological games for winning a left-wing electorate
instead despite massive influx of 40000 people per year, in addition to
energy-efficiency laws and lack of capacity making construction unprofitable
(btw. solar industry also goes south).

[1]:
[https://www.bundesfinanzministerium.de/Content/DE/Standardar...](https://www.bundesfinanzministerium.de/Content/DE/Standardartikel/Service/Einfach_erklaert/2018-01-11-grundlagen-
benzinpreis.html)

~~~
Kutta
Within EU, immediate local demand is barely relevant compared to labor and
manufacturing conditions, for setting up a factory. A Tesla factory in Germany
will obviously supply at least the whole EU.

------
navigatesol
Last week, the government of New york wrote down the value of Gigafactory 2 in
Buffalo, which has been mired in scandal:

[https://www.syracuse.com/state/2019/08/elon-musk-is-full-
of-...](https://www.syracuse.com/state/2019/08/elon-musk-is-full-of-s-tesla-
factory-in-buffalo-failing-to-live-up-to-promises-report-says.html)

Yesterday USA Today published an article about the disaster the Nevada factory
has been for the State, and HN didn't care:

[https://www.usatoday.com/in-
depth/news/investigations/2019/1...](https://www.usatoday.com/in-
depth/news/investigations/2019/11/12/tesla-gigafactory-brings-nevada-jobs-and-
housing-woes-worker-injuries-strained-ems/2452396001/)

Today, Elon mentions a new factory one day will be built in Germany, and HN
loves it. This company is bullet proof.

------
IOT_Apprentice
This is all good news. Just wondering about repairs globally as Tesla's start
aging and they need to be repaired, or for whatever the current % of their
vehicles require service year over year. They must have that info given the
amount of telematics they generate AND that they are sole source for
maintenance and repair.

~~~
natch
With no carburetors, alternators, starter motors, fuel pumps, fuel filters,
oil filters, oil leaks, gas leaks, exhaust buildup, spark plugs, timing belts,
radiators, head gaskets, mufflers, rings, manifolds, belts... and with brake
pads that last forever... it's significantly less maintenance.

And Teslas are not designed to milk the consumer for repairs over the years;
they are designed to convince consumers that electric cars are a better
choice.

The Model 3 is designed to last 1 million miles. So sure, it will be
fascinating to see how they do... but that's like 25 or more years from now.

~~~
kwhitefoot
> and with brake pads that last forever.

Not true if you live in an area where the roads are salted in the winter. Then
they don't last any longer than on an ICE car unless you reduce or turn off
regenerative braking. I had to have two replaced at the last service because
of rust for just that reason and the car is only four years old (Model S).

Tesla's advice was to reduce regen in the winter so that the brakes get used a
bit more. A colleague also suggests doing an emergency stop once a year in the
summer on a dry road to scour the brakes, not tried it, no idea if it would
really be effective.

~~~
natch
Yes exception for very cold weather when regen is limited. Not so much to do
with road salting, just use of brake pads versus non use, although salt could
help cause rust to disks, not pads, which could in turn affect pads. But yes
certain conditions may vary.

> Then they don't last any longer than on an ICE car unless you reduce or turn
> off regenerative braking.

This makes no sense. Reducing or turning off regen would make brake pad wear
worse, not better. As an owner I assume you know your stuff so typo maybe?

~~~
kwhitefoot
I was talking about the disks, sorry I didn't make that clear.

If the rust is too extensive then the car will fail its periodic test. All
cars in Norway must be tested every two years (first test when the car is four
years old) and the condition of the brake disks is one of the check points.

I agree that the pads will last much longer with regen but the pads are
relatively cheap compared to the disks.

------
Tomte
German newspapers report that the availability of power from renewable sources
was a big plus for Elon Musk.

------
pjc50
See also: [https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/tesla/108395/tesla-
gigafactory...](https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/tesla/108395/tesla-gigafactory-
europe-to-be-built-in-germany-not-uk-as-elon-musk-blames-brexit)

------
ptaipale
Headline should be corrected: the site is near Berlin, but not in Berlin.

Reported site is Grünheide, some 40 km drive from Brandenburger Tor, and a bit
shorter distance from the under-construction BER airport.

[https://www.berlin.de/en/news/5972608-5559700-elon-musk-
tesl...](https://www.berlin.de/en/news/5972608-5559700-elon-musk-tesla-giga-
factory-berlin.en.html)

What makes me curious is that this village is actually within a nature
protection area, Naturschutzgebiet Löcknitztal. I could imagine that building
such a symbol of international market economy there might attract anti-
capitalist demonstrators and involve protesting and riots. But perhaps I'm
wrong.

[https://www.google.com/maps/place/Gr%C3%BCnheide,+Saksa/@52....](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Gr%C3%BCnheide,+Saksa/@52.4155479,13.8387236,12.25z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x47a83072fa52a477:0x23e432b8d9ec6b!8m2!3d52.4240211!4d13.8204336)

I also find it somewhat interesting that in the political composition of this
village of 8000 residents, the Social Democrats and Linke (Left) have 3 seats,
and two seats are held by CDU, AfD, and.... Freiwillige Feuerwehr.

Yes, the voluntary fire brigade is apparently popular enough to feature in
local politics. I think this is a somewhat sympathetic phenomenon in German
local politics.

[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gr%C3%BCnheide_(Mark)](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gr%C3%BCnheide_\(Mark\))

~~~
oska
Looking at that map I'd assume they're planning on building the factory in the
cleared area at the top, just off the Lichtenower Weg, with good close access
to Highway 1.

~~~
ptaipale
Yes, that makes sense.

It's a bit of a shame that there's no Google Street View in much of Germany.

~~~
oska
It seems my guess was wrong. This map [1] shows where the factory will be
cited (apparently based on some German media reports).

[1] [https://i.redd.it/eze28dydmiy31.png](https://i.redd.it/eze28dydmiy31.png)

------
Havoc
Good stuff.

I see Tesla & Berlin playing out well.

Bunch of tech nomads hide out in Berlin and I'm sure the city is keen to steal
market share from more traditional German car powerhouse cities.

------
radicalbyte
German labour laws are very well suited plus there labour pool of qualified
people is also very large.

~~~
arez
why are german labour laws very well suited? Tesla had several incidents with
injured workers and safety violations

~~~
xedeon
> Tesla had several incidents with injured workers and safety violations

More than the industry average in the state of California? If so, care to site
your source?

~~~
swish_bob
Numerous, repeated stories over the years. They keep claiming they've
improved, and it's possible they have, but stories keep surfacing.

[https://riskandinsurance.com/5-takeaways-from-teslas-
safety-...](https://riskandinsurance.com/5-takeaways-from-teslas-safety-and-
workers-comp-tribulations/)

~~~
xedeon
Again, how do the numbers of substantiated report stack up compared to other
manufacturers? That would be the only metric that matters.

The article you linked looked like an opinion piece and provided zero data
points or official documents.

Lastly, Cal-OSHA has much stricter rules than other states. Tesla is pretty
much the only auto manufacturer in the state of California currently.

Source:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Motor_vehicle_assembl...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Motor_vehicle_assembly_plants_in_California)

------
cwperkins
I wonder if the rent freeze in Berlin will have any effect on Tesla attracting
top talent.

------
lazyjones
It’s less of a good idea than the people here seem to think (especially
Germans). Germany, as a shareholder of VW and very dependent upon taxes paid
by all German car manufacturers is the “enemy” and has a large arsenal of
methods available to hurt Tesla on its turf.

------
sl3e6
That is really interesting. What expertise are you speaking from?

------
gigatexal
Awesome win for Berlin.

------
k__
Could build it on the old airport.

~~~
sneak
[https://brandenburg-braucht-tegel.de/](https://brandenburg-braucht-tegel.de/)

There are a lot of Berliners who love Tegel and don't want it to close even
when BBI is eventually open (whenever that may be). TXL is truly a fantastic
airport, and would become even better when not overcrowded.

~~~
kayoone
there are a lot of cool projects to be built in the area of Tegel, including
more housing. My University wants/needs to expand its campus there too and
people who bought apartments in the area would get screwed over if Tegel would
stay. It needs to go.

~~~
sneak
How would people who bought apartments next to the airport get screwed over?
Are you suggesting that a potentially-inaccurate prediction of the future was
priced in?

Millions of more people use Tegel than use those apartments, and if they
aren’t “screwed over” living near the airport today, they wouldn’t be if it
stayed open.

~~~
kayoone
It wasn't a prediction, this was set in stone and only the disaster that is
the BER construction made some people reevaluate it. Of course it was risky to
buy a home based on this, but there are many other forward looking projects to
be based in the Tegel area, many of which have been planned for over a decade
and that have been invested in already.

------
jansan
Near Berlin means the state of Brandenburg, which is famous for failed mega
projects:

\- Airport BER (still not open)

\- Cargolifter airship factory (now used as a waterpark)

\- Lausitzring (was supposed to host the F1, now hugely unprofitable)

\- Semiconductor factory in Frankfurt/Oder (abandoned, only the building got
finished)

I am not aware of one single project that materialized as planned. The odds
are against Elon on this one...

~~~
Kutta
You can always put a project into a reference class consisting only of failed
projects. You can also put this project into the class of Tesla factories,
none of which failed so far.

------
jaimex2
For some reason the Age of Empires multiplayer taunt 'Hey, I'm in your town'
comes to mind.

