
Ask HN: Software Engineer Salaries in Berlin - zerr
Hi<p>Can somebody with enough karma create a poll with salary ranges for software engineers in Berlin?<p>Or you could post here, if you have something to share.<p>Thank you!
======
netrus
It really depends. Minimum: 30k EUR Recent graduate: 35-45k EUR Senior: 45-60k
EUR Like everywhere, salaries are higher in larger companies and for older
people.

As Berlin is quite poor, expect maybe 10-15% below German average, but take
into account that cost of living is low (especially rent and food).

~~~
Cyph0n
Interesting. A bit off-topic: how much would it cost per month for basic
amenities for a college student in Berlin?

------
playing_colours
From my experience, salaries can vary a lot. It depends on the following
factors:

\- is it an early startup, something more stable or established company in
some industry. The latter tend to pay more.

\- technological stack

\- experience

For example, as a senior software developer in JVM stack you can make in
startup on average EUR 50 000 - 60 000. Also consider taxes - they vary
depending on if you are single, married with employed/unemployed spouse,
children.

------
peterjmag
Here you go!
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7109180](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7109180)

------
SpaceJudas
I hate to self-promote, but I work at a company called payscale that makes its
livelihood off of building super specific salary range reports out of crowd
sourced data.

Below I'm posting a link for the generalized "Software Engineer" (non-senior)
in the city of Berlin. Obviously where you place in the range is dependent on
a bunch of other factors like your specific skills (some languages actually
pay better than others), company size, and your years of experience.
[http://www.payscale.com/research/DE/Location=Berlin-
Berlin/S...](http://www.payscale.com/research/DE/Location=Berlin-
Berlin/Salary)

If you want to drill down further than that, filling out our survey will give
you a personal salary range based on your skills, experience level, and all
the other compensible factors that we've come up with. Good luck on your job
search!

~~~
adamb0mb1
You posted a link to Berlin, which has several entries for different types of
engineers. But close enough :-)

------
benjaminwootton
Berlin is a cheap place to live even by European standards.

Even though salaries might appear low, Berlin has a really good balance of
culture + nice place to live + affordibility.

~~~
mikecaron
Absolutely true. My rent in the early '00s was equivalent to $200 / month for
a 3 room apartment. Granted, I had a coal furnace in my bedroom, a tiny gas
furnace in my living room and no heat in the kitchen or bathroom (except for a
pull-string infra-red heater over the door for when you step out of the
bathtub). Everything was cheap from beer to food to clubs to travel. I made
half of what I made in the States but I didn't feel it at all.

~~~
markkanof
I can definitely see how that would work when a lot of the necessities of life
are priced lower, in line with your lower salary. How did you feel about
making purchases that are priced at a more global level? For example if you
wanted to buy an Apple computer to do your development work on. I've always
been curious about this as people don't tend to talk about it when discussing
the cost of living in different geographic areas.

~~~
ido
That stuff becomes comparatively more expensive, but still most of your
expenses are for the basics (housing+ transit+ food probably add up to ~80-90%
of most people's expenses) so it's not that big of a deal.

------
seivan
While you're at it, also ask for the taxes for a single person. It's around
35-42%. Of course some will claim that a large of that is not actually tax,
but your pension. Because you know... countries always pay their pensions when
you're old .

Also ask what the tax is for when claiming pension, usually it's higher than a
salaried tax, because you know what the government feels about old people. At
least in Sweden.

~~~
levosmetalo
You can check taxes for yourself. Here's a quick link in English that
correctly calculates taxes based on tax class, and has a short explanation
about different factors.

EDIT: Sorry, the missing link is
[http://www.parmentier.de/steuer/steuer.htm?wagetax.htm](http://www.parmentier.de/steuer/steuer.htm?wagetax.htm)

Also, if you would like to see what is an employers overhead over a given
gross salary, this link (German only) can also help: [http://www.brutto-netto-
rechner.info/gehalt/gehaltsrechner-a...](http://www.brutto-netto-
rechner.info/gehalt/gehaltsrechner-arbeitgeber.php)

~~~
expertentipp
Taxes and other contributions subtracted from your salary are high in Germany,
almost as high as in Nordic countries. There are many gross-net calculators
available, search for "Netto Gehaltsrechner".

------
nichochar
This raises a lot of questions. I'm french and have gone to CA to work for a
startup in SF for a while.

Salaries in Europe << salaries in the US, but you have to take into account
social security, cost of life, country culture,etc...

So although the question is very important, and you should get your answer,
don't make any decision based on only that.

That's just my opinion.

~~~
cake
Ohh I have a few questions for you :

What did you do in CA ?

What was your salary and how would it compare in France ?

~~~
__xtrimsky
I have a friend software enginneer in France, came out of the same school as
me.

I make 7400$ / month, he makes 2600 euros.

But he has health care paid for, 5 weeks vacations, 35 hour work weeks.

------
rdl
What I'm more interested in are costs of employing people in Berlin, vs. costs
in the Bay Area and other markets.

e.g. if salary expectations for a mid-level dev are EUR 50000 vs. USD 120k,
but Germany costs another EUR 50000 in taxes/permits overhead vs. another USD
30000 to the employer in the US, it's a wash.

~~~
a8da6b0c91d
Probably the bigger concern is it will cost a fortune to fire or lay people
off in Germany. Or if an employee gets pregnant they can disappear for
something like five months at full salary, and you can't replace them. Hiring
people in most of Europe is a daunting proposition.

~~~
levosmetalo
Another point is that you can't make people work 60 hours a week easily like
in the USA. That could even make you a serious trouble with the law.

If you want to avoid these situations, then just hire contractors, but that
will cost you more. If not, just stay in the USA. Europe doesn't need
employers that treat employees as slaves. Employment in Germany is more like a
long term two way relation, and regulations are made with that assumption in
place.

~~~
Ancorehraq
So, a long term /three/ way relationship, then? The employee, the employer,
and the state.

~~~
levosmetalo
Well, Germans people have always been more liberal and open minded regarding
relationships, so threesomes are not that rare :)

------
rememberlenny
I was there in August and heard is was 30-40% less than the Bay Area/NYC
salaries. The few web developers I talked to about salaries shared they were
making 30-50k euros a year. That seemed pretty good.

It might not seem like a lot, but cost of living is also a lot less than
NYC/SV.

~~~
drinchev
I live in Berlin ( working as a front-end developer ) and that is correct. My
rent is 700 Euro for a small flat in Mitte ( city center ) and yes, Berlin is
a cheap city in terms of food, party, rent, etc. Anyway most of the people are
not here to make money as far as I can see. Lots of hipsters and other people
just join the city for it's special "culture / party / art" kind of spirit.

~~~
mikecaron
And that really is an incredible motivation to live there. No city on earth
like Berlin.

------
rglullis
It's going to be one of those polls where my old salaryshare can actually
help. :)

I've created a salary
pool.[http://salaryshare.me/a9f54a571d1b0d89a47ee481a61b0da4](http://salaryshare.me/a9f54a571d1b0d89a47ee481a61b0da4).
Please only post a salary if you are full-time employed in Berlin.

If you just want to see the results, please visit:
[http://salaryshare.me/a9f54a571d1b0d89a47ee481a61b0da4/resul...](http://salaryshare.me/a9f54a571d1b0d89a47ee481a61b0da4/results?pass=HnBerlinPool2014)

This is also interesting to me, who happened to have moved to Berlin last
summer.

------
grn
I know a PHP programmer who makes about 6.5k EUR / month as a contractor but
that's my only data point.

I'm considering moving to Berlin and working there as a contractor so I'd love
to see some more data. Keep in mind that the overhead of an employee is huge
(I bet it's over 100%) so a contract may be much better financially.

------
Daviey
I really fail to see what value this polls add. The sample size is usually too
small, and then - only indicates values.. doesn't provide enough detail on
level of skill or responsibility.

------
hdragomir
You should be fine with anything around 2.5k a month.

~~~
siscia
In italy young developer are VERY VERY VERY lucky if the get something like
1200 €/months (and I think that I haven't stretch enough the VERY LUCKY part)

~~~
poulsbohemian
I've been hearing this for 15+ years now, IE: that tech salaries in Italy are
incredibly low. How is it possible, just given the raw supply/demand problem
for tech workers? In every other part of the world, tech workers are somewhere
in the say, top 10% of earners, but not Italy. What is it that's so unique
about market conditions there?

