
.bit non-governmental domain name registrar, for the post-SOPA era - krig
http://dot-bit.org/Domain_names
======
sneak
Learn from history. Repeat after me: nobody will ever use an alternate root.

The idea is much, much older than your project. Consider ipv6, and everyone is
TRYING to adopt that.

Repeat after me: nobody will use an alternate root.

PS: Yes, I know what namecoin is, and the idea is stupid. It may not be an
alternate traditional dns root, but the point is exactly the same.

~~~
larrys
"nobody will ever use an alternate root"

100% in agreement with this. Take spam which is a much larger significant
problem. In order to eliminate spam you'd have to get everyone to completely
change the email protocol habits usage etc. There is no way to patch over it.
That hasn't and isn't going to happen. Major providers who control access
aren't going to go along with any alternate root. And getting people to
program in individually alternative dns servers or do anything "technical" in
nature won't create enough critical mass. (Majority of domain names registered
even with the availability of alternate tlds and cctlds are still .com)

~~~
mehmeta
"And getting people to program in individually alternative dns servers or do
anything "technical" in nature won't create enough critical mass"

That has happened before. When YouTube got blocked for some stupid reason in
Turkey for months, millions of people used alternative dns servers to bypass
the block. It's easy enough to automate, which means it's simply a matter of
demand.

------
nextparadigms
Can dot-bit.org domain be taken in the name of "facilitating infringement" if
SOPA does pass? From what I hear, I think the answer is _yes_. Sure, they'll
say they have no intention of doing that ... but as along as the law itself
allows them to do it, and a service like that proves to be a pain in the ass,
they'll do it.

~~~
krig
The question is how they would do that, technically, since the system is
distributed.

They could of course force you to give up your domain physically, by seizing
your server. As a non-US citizen, my primary concern is relying on nameservers
located in the US. My machines are located in Sweden. Of course, that's no
guarantee that they would be safe from the FBI...

~~~
thebigshane
I think he's referring the the "dot-bit.org" domain, not the the "*.bit"
domains. The .org is still registered normally and vulnerable to SOPA.

~~~
epscylonb
It could be taken down, I guess a game of whack a mole would ensue with
mirrors popping up.

~~~
recursive
How is this different from the existing SOPA scenario? "Rogue" sites can be
taken down with mirrors popping up. It sounds like it's replacing one problem
for the same problem.

~~~
nowarninglabel
The difference is, this would be whack-a-mole only for the _one_ bit-coin.org
domain, not for all the .bit domains, unlike the current whack-a-mole game
which is being played with _all_ sites using top level domains that the US
government can exert authority over.

------
krig
Another thought: It would be huge if Firefox and Chrome both supported .bit
out of the box. I don't know how possible that is without shipping namecoin
clients in the browsers, but it seems like it shouldn't be impossible to have
some sort of minimal client built-in that can do DNS lookups peer-to-peer.

If namecoin started to "just work" out of the box, that would change
everything in regards to how likely this is to take over from the centralised
DNS system.

Considering that both Google and Mozilla are so against SOPA, I don't see this
as being completely impossible. Then again, I don't see why governments
couldn't make it illegal to be a namecoin peer either, if they are already
causing enough issues to warrant the system to begin with.

~~~
vrotaru
> It would be huge if Firefox and Chrome both supported .bit out of the box.

Yes. But don't underestimate the power of add-ons/extensions.

------
icebraining
I don't get why did they have to replace DNS with some kind of JSON hack which
"mostly" supports the same records. There are already a bunch of alternative
DNS roots[1] with their own TLDs which work fine with the existing DNS
software.

[1]:
[https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Alternative_D...](https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Alternative_DNS_root)

~~~
dissident
This isn't a replacement of existing DNS with some arbitrary JSON protocol,
this is a P2P DNS called Namecoin which happens to use JSON. Arguably, the
flexibility offered by JSON can allow for sophisticated technologies to emerge
which can take advantage of this naming system.

It's clear from the very article of this submission that this is the case. For
instance, the I2P fields are combined in a structure that best represents the
resource on the I2P network. A different structure is necessary to represent a
Tor or freenet resource identifier.

If Internet naming is going to be fragmented, I'd rather it not be wasted on
Alternative DNS roots, which fall privy to the same fundamental problems as
our current domain name system. A Namecoin system cannot be so easily
censored.

~~~
icebraining
_which happens to use JSON_

But that's my point: why? I'm not saying they should implement a DNS root, I'm
saying I don't see the benefit in using a new format, when:

1\. The DNS packet format is compatible with existing resolvers, which eases
the transition (for example, someone could use the new system without
installing anything, by trusting a Namecoin resolving server) 2\. It uses less
space for the common use case - JSON is smaller than e.g. XML, but it's still
hardly a small format. 3\. It's extensible for other use cases (Tor, I2P)
without bloating the common - see EDNS

Frankly, I think they're reinventing the wheel, poorly, by designing their own
format.

~~~
dissident
While it would be much more convenient for everybody if they implemented some
extension of the current protocol/formatting, there are some issues with
accomplishing that.

Names registered with namecoin have to depend on some blobs which can be
updated by the name owner. The blobs need a format of some kind, and since
they're already using a different protocol than DNS to achieve this P2P
system, they might as well use JSON.

Also, as I stated in my comment, the structure of JSON fits better for this
type of system than DNS's formatting. DNS requires redundancy to describe
round-robin, and it's not easy (or elegant) to express complex structures in
DNS, compared to JSON.

One example of this in practice is the I2P field I mentioned before.

------
hippich
I published open source Faucet code recently and also launched test namecoin
faucet at <http://faucet.yepcorp.com>

Feel free to request your 3 namecoins to test things out. This should be
enough for actually registering 1-2 domains at current prices.

Read here more about registering .bit domain yourself with namecoins (not
buying 1 year registration with bitcoins!!!)

<http://dot-bit.org/HowToRegisterAndConfigureBitDomains>

------
krig
I'd love to register a .bit domain just as an experiment/for fun, but I'm a
bit wary of the methods for obtaining bitcoins that I've found.. anyone have a
good tip for an exchange, or experience with obtaining bitcoins/registering a
.bit domain through any other means.. Or, any other related information to
share?

I also can't quite figure out if it's worth my time to set one of my computers
at mining bitcoins, how long should I expect it to take me to mine enough to
register a domain?

~~~
jerfelix
The short answer is that you SHOULDN'T set up a mining rig to mine bitcoins,
if all you want to do is USE bitcoins.

Simply buy or trade for them. The easiest way to do that, in my opinion (from
a US-centric perspective) is to set up a Dwolla account, transfer a bit of
money from your bank to Dwolla. Then transfer that money from Dwolla to an
exchange (Mtgox and TradeHill are two examples), and then buy bitcoins at
market rate.

Then you can use them to buy goods and services (including namecoin names).
Bitcoins are the "currency". Namecoins are sort-of related (using the same
underlying technology), but are a separate product.

~~~
krig
Thank you, Dwolla looks exactly like what I'm looking for.

------
lincolnwebs
The Internet will see SOPA as damage and attempt to route around it. Expect a
lot more articles & technologies like this to suddenly get attention if that
thing passes.

------
api
What we really need is a new protocol based on Kademelia or something, a
decentralized DNS.

Engineering such a thing to scale would be tough, but getting adoption might
be easier than we think. It could be offered via click-to-install browser
extensions and click-to-install free apps in app stores.

~~~
NHQ
Google and other search engines could do a lot to undermine the current DNS as
well, if they supported indexing other nets.

~~~
MBlume
The second they do that, they'll only be available on the other nets.

~~~
abscondment
Can you elaborate? I don't follow how that might come about.

~~~
webjprgm
Easy. The reason for the other nets is because the governmental ones want to
censor out parts. So if a domain on the govt net starts bypassing censorship
by pointing at things on the other nets, the govt will consider that domain
also an infringing domain and censor it too.

Of course, we're talking about Google. The US government wouldn't lightly
block google.com. But it would start some sort of battle.

------
dissident
Namecoin is already established, and although there could be better P2P naming
systems, I'm happy they're trying to snag .bit. I had a similar thought just
earlier this week; Namecoin could work seamlessly alongside our current naming
system as long as .bit is endorced for that use.

------
ajpatel
I don't think I'm quite sure what this is trying to do - can anyone explain?
It seems they want to make a distributed DNS system based on the model of
BitCoin - P2P keys that identify the nameservers for certain domains? This
would avoid the regulation of SOPA.

But there's no way to be certain because I can't make heads or tails of that
spec page LoL.

~~~
chalst
It's an iteration of an RFC for Namecoin:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2546815>

I think the point of the story is not so much the details of the novel content
in this RFC - I find it hard to take seriously an RFC with passages such as "I
would suggest that Verisign offer [us the .bit and .nmc tlds] as a gesture of
good faith so that we can profit all profit from strengthening the original
intent of DNS and the potentially criminal monopoloy handed to them by the US
Government" - but as pointing out that there is movement in Namecoin and
asserting that Namecoin is relevant to the whole SOPA deal.

~~~
shahidhussain
Next line: "I mean, I don't see any other solution to begin the fair
transition into opening name services that keeps them in line with their
stated goals." Perhaps a dose of pragmatism would be good at this point.

------
gerggerg
Couldn't this whole project be undermined by ICANN opening up .bit for
registration with the current dns system?

~~~
marshray
ICANN's current stated policy is to not cause technical problems. For example,
they will never open up .local. But if people start succeeding in popularizing
whatever TLDs they want, maybe ICANN would change that policy just to screw
with them.

Still .bit isn't going to work today without special configuration, so it's
not at all clear that publishing it from the root servers would break anyone
that was already successfully using it.

------
kiba
I written a bit about what namecoin means for the future.

[http://bitcoinweekly.com/articles/technological-jailbreak-
bi...](http://bitcoinweekly.com/articles/technological-jailbreak-bitcoin-to-
namecoin)

------
tucson
what is the point of the .bit ? why would somebody want to use it ?

~~~
thebigshane
I believe this proposal started long before E-PARASITE, SOPA and similar
(pending) legislation, but it has become relevant given the current SOPA
situation. dot-bit (namecoins) has the potential of circumventing the DNS-
censorship that SOPA might enable.

Also, its sister technology, bitcoin, has the potential of circumventing the
payment-processor (ex. MasterCard) type of censorship. (See how wikileaks is
being shutdown/censored)

------
malandrew
For this to succeed, you need to reserve a lot of the legitimate .com
addresses and have them mirror their .com counterparts. If you don't mimic
.com as closely as possible for all entities that matter (real people and real
organizations) then .bit is dead in the water.

------
tucson
The name of the website (dot bit) suggests the domain names will be using the
Top Level Domain '.bit'. Is it the case?

Can someone give an example of a domain that would be provided by this
registrar? Domain.bit would be the typical example...?

~~~
hippich
correct. for example, i have <http://room.bit/> as a mirror to my project
<http://betco.in/>

Although to use these domains you need to do some leg work right now, 'cos
obviously no root domains support this TLD.

Easiest for me was to switch to one DNS server from this list [http://dot-
bit.org/HowToBrowseBitDomains#Use_a_DNS_server_th...](http://dot-
bit.org/HowToBrowseBitDomains#Use_a_DNS_server_that_support_.bit_domains)

------
desireco42
I really like this idea. I think it really needs to be explained better, it is
very confusing how it is explained, pages that should explain are also full of
details that might not help clarify things.

------
katesmith098
bit non-governmental domain name registrar, for the post-SOPA
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------
stanislavb
Smart! Thumbs up!

