

If Immunity Project (YC W14) succeeds, they'll offer AIDS vaccine for free - ph0rque
http://www.fastcompany.com/3025372/if-the-immunity-project-crowdfunds-this-synthetic-aids-vaccine-theyll-offer-it-free-to-every

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ThePhysicist
This is an exciting project, but as a scientist I think that the data they
present to support their rather bold claims is pretty thin, so far. If they
want me to invest in their startup through crowdfunding, they should at least
be able to answer the following questions first:

-What exactly do they mean when they say that animal studies have been successful? Have they just conducted a proof-of-concept experiment or do they have a working vaccine for mice? If so, how effective is it (1 %, 10 % or 100 %)?

-How mature is the delivery process they intend to use? In their FAQ they mention the use of microspheres and state that "in a petri dish we have been able to induce dendritic cells to take up the microspheres through a process called phagocytosis". Again this sounds like a proof-of-concept experiment, so how mature is this technology?

-Why are there no peer-reviewed publications about their work so far? On their website they state that they're "awaiting publication in a peer-reviewed journal". Which journal did they submit their work to and why can't they publish a preprint of their article? Did they publish some theory papers about the work they did between 2011 and 2013?

If you want my money, please show me the data first :)

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bdcs
I agree with your dissatisfaction with the dearth of data. Unfortunately in
bio(chem) fields, pre-prints are rare. Usually theory papers are too.

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ThePhysicist
Well in physics it used to be like this, with most journals denying the
authors the right to publish a pre-print because it would "spoil" the
publication in the journal. Some interdisciplinary journals like Science and
Nature still enforce this (harmful) policy but many others were already forced
to open up by the scientific community, which really accelerated the
dissemination of important results a lot. After all, with most journals it
takes between six to twelve months to get something published, by then most
results are "yesterday's news" already ;)

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procrastinatus
I'm sorry. I think the idea of private funding for research is interesting,
but this really seems like a scam.

1\. Zero people on the team or among the advisors have any experience doing
research in molecular biology or virology. Check for yourself:
[http://www.immunityproject.org/](http://www.immunityproject.org/) ("Meet the
Team") They have an anesthesiologist, a bioinformatics guy, oncology
researcher, epidemiologist (who studied HIV, but mostly from a community
medicine perspective - e.g. things like gels and microbicides), 4
marketing/biz people, a media strategist, a general pediatrician, and another
marketing person.

2\. They have zero publications and no references to even preliminary data.
Anyone can say they have "very successful mouse data." If these guys are
actually scientists, why don't they talk about their science - their site is
100% marketing jargon.

3\. By not going through the NIH, this group is not required to release any
information about their technology to the public.

4\. It's not trivial to do HIV research. If you are working with the virus,
you are required to work in a bio-safety level 3 unit. Do they have approval
for this? Is there any reason to think that the FDA will approve their trials?

5\. What is this mysterious "final experiment" they need to do before starting
the FDA approval process? ([https://pledge.immunityproject.org/the-free-hiv-
aids-vaccine](https://pledge.immunityproject.org/the-free-hiv-aids-vaccine)).

It really seems like these guys are just trying to make money from the
suffering of others. I find the use of stock images of poor children to be
exploitative. Perhaps the NIH is not funding them for a reason. Who would fund
someone before they've shown any evidence whatsoever that their technique
works.

Okay, I'm off to go fundraising for my Malaria Vaccine Initiative with my
fantastic preliminary animal model data from my lead marketing
anesthesiologist. If the NIH won't fund me before I have data (I just need to
do that one first^H^H^H last experiment), maybe random people on the internet
who don't know anything about science will.

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chrisBob
I am skeptical about a crowd founded Bio-tech company. If they are legit then
it shouldn't be hard to get some NIH funding (you know, the crowd sourcing
platform that I pay into already). Government funded research may not be a
perfect system, but it works pretty well and is peer reviewed.

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danabramov
From their FAQ (at the page bottom):

### If this vaccine candidate is so promising, why can’t you get enough funds
for it from government and foundation grants?

We’ve spoken to many parties and some seem interested, but do not believe this
is the best route for us at this time. The landscape is highly political, and
most bodies are focused on creating a neutralizing antibody vaccine. Anytime a
product completely novel and innovative enters this space, it is extremely
difficult to obtain early adopter. Given the extreme toll HIV/AIDs is taking
on many communities around the world, we must move swiftly. We are confident
these groups will come around down the road, but we do not want to wait.

~~~
return0
Wow that is quite a statement. If this project succeeds, people should really
reconsider the whole way science funding works nowadays.

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untog
Assuming that statement is in any way true.

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rposborne
It's actually surprisingly accurate. This part in particular " Anytime a
product completely novel and innovative enters this space, it is extremely
difficult to obtain early adopter. " Bringing a drug to market is a massive
undertaking and most Biotech Investors look at novel treatments as way to high
of a risk.

~~~
GarrettBeck
Genentech asked Kleiner Perkins for a $3.0 million dollar investment back in
the 70s to see if it was even possible to accomplish genome splicing. The
investment would have paid for building a new lab, new equipment, etc. KP
decided to give them $500k and rent the UCLA lab instead. That was a
groundbreaking investment (and the VC business had only been around for 15-20
years).

In the current landscape of investing, crowdfunding has become the vehicle for
riskier investments that traditional VCs no longer make (because they don't
fit 10% x $2 billion = happy LPs) and I'm sure KP knows firsthand about
dealing with bio-pharma regulations.

Hats off to Immunity and YC.

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acconrad
I'm just really glad that YC is investing time and money into ground-breaking
startups that go beyond popular SV consumer web services.

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3327
Why not, the amount of money and resources spent on a single virus thread is
beyond our imagination. If they succeed and like all startups they have thin
odds and perhaps even thinner because of being in biotech - there are two
massive implications.

1- The obvious an Aids vaccine 2- Disrupting the pharmaceutical empire on a
global scale equal to perhaps a renaissance in the business of medicine and
pharmaceuticals. They get a $50 from me.

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obsession
Where can I donate?

~~~
liuhenry
[https://pledge.immunityproject.org/](https://pledge.immunityproject.org/)

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dnautics
good luck guys! I tried crowdfunding for biomedical research (preclinical) and
I learned a lot about crowdfunding in the process - will be restarting later
this year, I hope to learn from your success. With some knowledge about the
AIDS vaccine field (had many colleagues in that space in grad school, attended
many talks) I think your project is really worthy and a fresh approach. I also
volunteer weekly for an AIDS-related nonprofit, so this is a personal issue
for me, I have seen clients of mine pass away of AIDS. I'll definitely be
chipping in myself.

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run4_too
This could be the most important thing that YC ever does...

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trillium
This is an ambitious goal. Finding an AIDS vaccine isn't easy.

I still vividly recall my Professor who has many years experiences with
viruses saying, "I don't think there will ever be an AIDS vaccine."

I think and hope he's wrong, but it is surely no easy task.

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guipsp
From what I read, they already have one developed.

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wazoox
There have been some vaccines developed already, some even reached phase 1 to
3 human testing, and one even reached actual use.

[http://www.niaid.nih.gov/topics/hivaids/research/vaccines/Pa...](http://www.niaid.nih.gov/topics/hivaids/research/vaccines/Pages/history.aspx)

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1angryhacker
and if the vaccine is successful too

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herbig
"Immunity Project is a non-profit initiative dedicated to developing an HIV
vaccine."

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DonGateley
If it's promising, even with long shot odds, you've gotta wonder why Gates
isn't all over it.

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linker3000
.... Big pharma ...

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sneak
AIDS kills 5,000 per day.

Hunger kills 80,000 per day.

One of these we already know how to cure.

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kamaal
This isn't X or Y, this is X and Y.

Plus, to be really frank. HIV has broader consequences. If it ever mutates to
spread through air or water, like common cold viruses. Then we are staring at
an extinction level event.

The risks are far more higher.

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atgm
Would it really be an extinction-level event? I've read in many places that
the life expectancy of a person with HIV on retroviral therapy is pretty much
the same as it would be without HIV nowadays.

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patangay
Leaving aside the quality of life argument. What about babies born with HIV?
Do you think they'll have the same life expectancy?

