
In Ferguson, Washington Post reporter Wesley Lowery gives account of his arrest - ForHackernews
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/in-ferguson-washington-post-reporter-wesley-lowery-gives-account-of-his-arrest/2014/08/13/0fe25c0e-2359-11e4-86ca-6f03cbd15c1a_story.html
======
suprgeek
In Ferguson we are finally getting to see the glimpse(just a peek) of the
tyranny creeping up on us in America.

\- Fully militarized police with a Tank(!) and multiple snipers with assault
rifles confronting unarmed civilian protesters.[1]

\- Tear gassing and arresting reporters

\- Al-Jazera news crew was shot at and tear gassed [2]

\- No fly zone over all of Ferguson

\- Street level blockades & teargassing of porches to keep people inside

\- No badges, tags or any identifying marks on police

\- etc, etc,

This is a disgrace for America and a wake up call for all of us.

[1]
[https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bu9CVPGIYAA_tFz.jpg:large](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bu9CVPGIYAA_tFz.jpg:large)
[2]
[https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bu-N9uIIIAEImna.jpg:large](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bu-N9uIIIAEImna.jpg:large)

~~~
bayesianhorse
On a slightly apologetic note: There were actual, real, violent outbursts. If
you put yourself in the shoes of a police officer, you might understand the
police' reluctance to stand up to a potentially armed and certainly aggressive
mob without any protective gear, and in completely standard police cars.

The individual misconduct of these officers should be prosecuted. But these
rioting mobs won't stand a chance changing these "bullying" tactics or getting
the police to "demilitarize".

In some part, the protective gear actually decreases the need of applying
violence against protesters, because the officers don't have to defend
themselves as "actively" when trying to control a crowd.

~~~
jmathai
While I can see your point you have to really see this in context.

Imagine a black community that largely feels (and by data proven to be)
oppressed. Now that community has one of its children murdered by the police.
When they want to take a stand they are confronted by a wall of heavily armed
police that look like they could be fighting a war in Iraq (but as many have
said they're even better armed).

What possible reaction do you envision the black community having? I applaud
them for keeping their composure as well as they have. I could not do that.

~~~
bayesianhorse
As callous as it sounds: Responding with violence is not going to change a
thing. Also, telling such a community that their anger isn't helping, also
helps nobody.

Peaceful, non-violent resistance might work.

~~~
onli
Citation needed.

Really. There were peaceful protests that were successful. But there were also
many violent ones. Violence can and has changed many things.

I don't like violence, but I like those wrong etaist pacifist statements even
less.

 _Edit_ : Or are you talking only about this specific situation and this is
your opinion? Then nevermind, could very well be true here.

~~~
bayesianhorse
You can research Gandhi's non-violence principles.

In essence violence justifies counter-violence. The more the angry protesters
threaten or attack the police, the less "wrong" the current response looks.
Non-violence tries to starve the legitimization of excessive force.

This militarization is not a good idea and should be limited or abandoned. But
"riots" are hardly making a point against military gear.

~~~
th0br0
By your logic, assuming that violence justifies counter-violence, the arms
upgrades etc. that the police have received in the past could be portrayed as
a form of violence. (If not physical, then at least psychological as a form of
intimidation or similar) Therefore, the violent reactions are justified, also
if they are more violent than past ones.

~~~
bayesianhorse
No, I am not implying "ultimate" justification, but yes, it goes both ways.
Look at the comments in this discussion to view evidence of how people are
sympathizing with a rioting mob which destroyed or harmed the businesses,
property and person of totally innocent third parties.

In the near east there is a similar problem. There is so much violence going
on from both sides, that people can sympathize with cruelties from both sides.

------
olefoo
One striking thing about this and many other accounts of police misconduct is
the refusal of law enforcement officers to identify themselves.

"""He was denied information about the names and badge numbers of those who
arrested him."""

If hiding the badge numbers or other identifying marks distinguishing law
enforcement officers from each other isn't already a crime it ought to be. And
it ought to be one that disqualifies the officer involved from serving in any
position of authority over the public.

There is no excuse by which law enforcement can expect to have both legitimacy
and the cloak of anonymity. If there is one thing the last 4000 years of
recorded history has taught us; it is that unaccountable power will be abused.

If our civilisation is to have a solid foundation of law; it's law enforcement
authorities must be more law-abiding than the average citizen rather than
less. As is so glaringly the case in Ferguson tonight.

~~~
gadders
In the UK, police man have been sacked or disciplined for hiding their badge
numbers.

~~~
treerock
Not often though.

>some senior officers it had interviewed "did

>not appear to believe this was a disciplinary

>offence"

[http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/mar/18/g20-protest-
office...](http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/mar/18/g20-protest-officers-not-
disciplined-report) [2010]

------
baddox
> “My hands are behind my back,” I said. “I’m not resisting. I’m not
> resisting.” At which point one officer said: “You’re resisting. Stop
> resisting.”

One of the scariest subtleties with these situations is how police officers
always chant "stop resisting" regardless of whether the person is resisting.
It's almost as if they are explicitly trained to repeat that mantra. It's
eery.

~~~
saeranv
The more charitable interpretation here is that the cops may actually be
perceiving everyone as acting much more hostile than they actually are. The
cop's perception is being filtered through their own fear and implicit bias.

There's also of course, the conclusions about abuse of power drawn from the
Stanford Prison Experiment:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment)

Either way, these cops should not be given such heavy weaponry.

~~~
baddox
Your interpretation actually isn't much different than mine. I suspect police
are trained to feel threatened by civilians and to escalate along the use of
force continuum while maintaining some semblance of reasonableness and
legality. I don't intend to be uncharitable toward the average individual
officer's character, or even the intent of departmental policies. I just don't
think those policies are desirable.

------
idlewords
It's striking in the photos coming out of Ferguson to see municipal police in
full military gear. They have even brought out armored vehicles, and there are
multiple reports of police pointing automatic weapons at journalists and
protestors. These cops seem out of their depth. They should not have access to
this kind of firepower.

~~~
mikeyouse
This is my 'favorite' picture so far.. I can't even imagine what's going
through this kid's head.

[http://i.imgur.com/YBPeneA.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/YBPeneA.jpg)

~~~
mcfunley
Here's one that doesn't crop out the graffiti on the mailbox:

[http://cdn1.vox-
cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/36894460/...](http://cdn1.vox-
cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/36894460/453505316.0_cinema_1200.0.jpg)

~~~
bdevani
and the amazing discordant 'reaction' by the police, armed with a variety of
fringe all provided no doubt by the US military which probably had an excess.

------
jonknee
The Economist recently touched on the militarization of US police forces. It's
worth a read:

[http://www.economist.com/news/united-
states/21599349-america...](http://www.economist.com/news/united-
states/21599349-americas-police-have-become-too-militarised-cops-or-soldiers)

> But it is hard to see why Fargo, North Dakota—a city that averages fewer
> than two murders a year—needs an armoured personnel-carrier with a rotating
> turret. Keene, a small town in New Hampshire which had three homicides
> between 1999 and 2012, spent nearly $286,000 on an armoured personnel-
> carrier known as a BearCat. The local police chief said it would be used to
> patrol Keene’s “Pumpkin Festival and other dangerous situations”.

And worse:

> Householders, on hearing the door being smashed down, sometimes reach for
> their own guns. In 2006 Kathryn Johnston, a 92-year-old woman in Atlanta,
> mistook the police for robbers and fired a shot from an old pistol. Police
> shot her five times, killing her. After the shooting they planted marijuana
> in her home. It later emerged that they had falsified the information used
> to obtain their no-knock warrant.

~~~
junto
I used to think that Alex Jones was a complete Looney tune, bit slowly I'm
starting to realise that he's been warning Americans about this exact scenario
for years.

~~~
aaronbrethorst
Two examples off the top of my head of crazy shit Alex Jones believes:

* The Boston marathon bombings were a false flag attack by the US government

* The US government creates (some) tornadoes, and uses them to destroy US cities

------
jmathai
This really got me. Mike Brown's mother said this [1].

    
    
      You took my son away from me. You know how hard 
      it was for me to get him to stay in school 
      and graduate? Do you know how many black men 
      graduate? Not many. Because you bring them down
      to this type of level where they feel like "I don't
      got nothing to live for anyway. They're going to
      try and take me out anyway."
    

[1] [http://theweek.com/speedreads/index/266242/speedreads-
white-...](http://theweek.com/speedreads/index/266242/speedreads-white-cop-
calls-black-protesters-animals-in-ferguson-missouri)

------
spain
I wonder how long it's going to take for people to take up arms (unless they
already have), as this is exactly the kind of event _some_ people use to
justify gun ownership (huge emphasis on the some, I personally believe you
don't need justification for gun ownership and that it's a human right and I
know I'm not alone in this, but I also know _some_ people have used it as
justification and I wonder if they'd ever put their money where their mouth
is). It's a miracle some nut hasn't snapped and engaged in all-out warfare
already.

EDIT: Why the downvotes? Honest question, how much more are people willing to
take?

~~~
rodgerd
> I wonder how long it's going to take for people to take up arms

When it starts being white people targeted. Killing an unarmed man, cordoning
off the city with millitarized police, and shutting down the press sure sounds
like the scenario that 2nd amendment fundamentalists like the Oathkeepers
claim they need their AR-15s to deal with, but they're conspicuous by their
absence.

~~~
SyncTheory13
[http://beforeitsnews.com/u-s-politics/2014/08/militia-in-
mis...](http://beforeitsnews.com/u-s-politics/2014/08/militia-in-missouri-to-
protect-americans-from-tyrannical-police-state-as-martial-law-draws-
near-2473302.html)

------
SyncTheory13
None of this is new as anybody involved in protest (most recently and notably
- Occupy) could attest to. This was the single most radicalizing event that we
witnessed. Peaceful protestors that had once struck down any radical
protestors suddenly turned radical themselves upon watching family and friends
get beaten for filming and arrested for not obeying conflicting demands. A
close friend of mine was only able to save the SD card in his sock and switch
it out with a new one before the cops took it, pocketed the (unused) SD card
and then spiked his digital camera on the asphalt.

This situation is going to keep escalating. If you visit Ferguson, you'll see
the business-district smashed up but the residential areas nice, calm, well-
kept - with families literally everywhere walking around. The community is
united and organizing. I can only hope that the period of chaotic rage settles
down into something strong, long-lasting, and effective. This would be a true
tribute to Michael Brown.

Last - I want to mention that a St. Louis City Alderman/Protestor was also
arrested tonight. He remains peaceful as his respected reputation depends on
it, so one can only gather that it was to silence his filming.

[http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5677157](http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5677157)

An account of STL police two years
ago:[http://antistatestl.noblogs.org/post/2012/03/19/a-personal-a...](http://antistatestl.noblogs.org/post/2012/03/19/a-personal-
account-of-the-eviction-of-occupy-the-midwest/)

And some resistance: [http://antistatestl.noblogs.org/post/2012/04/22/welcome-
to-c...](http://antistatestl.noblogs.org/post/2012/04/22/welcome-to-compton-
hill-reservoir-park/)

~~~
colanderman
_Last - I want to mention that a St. Louis City Alderman /Protestor was also
arrested tonight. He remains peaceful as his respected reputation depends on
it, so one can only gather that it was to silence his filming._

This is how every representative should act – willing to stand with the
populace on the right side of history. Imagine if Obama went there incognito,
sans entourage, and did the same thing. Instant place in history.

------
grecy
How many incidents like this need to occur and make headlines before citizens
of America realize they often don't have the "Freedom and Liberty" they so
often drone on about?

~~~
npinguy
Someone white needs to die, and maybe people will start giving a shit.

~~~
barry-cotter
No, they don't care when white people die either, but it's not national news
because [retracted]white people don't riot and[/retracted] it doesn't fit the
narrative.

[http://articles.latimes.com/2013/aug/21/local/la-me-ln-
zacha...](http://articles.latimes.com/2013/aug/21/local/la-me-ln-zachary-
champommier-20130821)

>In a mixed verdict, a federal judge awarded $3 million to the parents of an
18-year-old honor student shot and killed by plainclothes drug enforcement
agents, but also determined that the authorities were not negligent in their
actions.

U.S. District Judge Michael Fitzgerald said that DEA agents had reason to
believe they were in danger, but determined that the agents should not have
fired their weapons at Zachary Champommier's car because shooting at a moving
vehicle would not have helped their predicament.

~~~
bdevani
"white people don't riot" you're right, when white people are on the streets
its a protest.

~~~
pavanred
It's a peaceful protest even if the people are heavily armed [1]. But at
Ferguson unarmed protests are considered as non peaceful protests and dealt
with force. There's one conspicuous difference between the people who were
protesting on each occasion.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_standoff#Confrontations_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_standoff#Confrontations_and_protests_in_April_2014)

------
jmadsen
I'm really surprised that I don't see anyone already providing this
information. I'm afraid I don't have a lot of time right now, so won't provide
links to back up these statement, but others please do:

I don't believe the issue you are seeing with regards to the militarization of
police stems to anything so terribly insidious. Instead, I think it is just
another sign of corruption in politics & business as usual.

There is a terrible amount of money being tagged for "Homeland Security".
Police departments are _still_ strapped for cash, but are given the option of
buying expensive toys with funds that can only be used to buy these toys from
the companies of successful lobbyists. In other words, "sorry, no money to
hire more officers this year. however, we can give you a grant for $20,000 to
spend on an armored carrier - but nothing else"

The money won't go away, because if a congressman _does_ stand up to this sort
of abuse, they just give a big donation to his opponent to runs TV ads saying
he's "soft on terrorism"

So what's a police chief to say? it's free

After that, we enter the simple world of psychology - it's a well-known fact
that when you give people pads and helmets, they will act in a riskier and
more aggressive manner. If you give them a mask, they will become more
belligerent. Toss in an "us vs. them" situation, stand by your team, etc.

So, these men are simply doing what psychiatrists say we would all do, if you
strapped us into a Robocop getup and told us to go protect the city.

That said - the Chief of Police should be experienced and responsible enough
to judge the situation and tell his officers "No riot gear". This is their
normal riot gear, but someone should have used some common sense to tell them
to leave it at the station. That is the fault at the local level.

------
sschueller
This is just the tip of the iceberg.

The US has such poor police training that this problem will not go away. There
are also way to many people in the force that are mentally not fit for the
job.

Sadly the the Police appears to reflect the conscience of the country. Where
force rules over diplomacy. Shoot first ask questions later and revenge over
forgiveness.

------
bdevani
If you're looking for a live stream of activity you can find it here:
[http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9035483/events/3271930](http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9035483/events/3271930)

Anonymous has claimed that they will be releasing the name of the cop who shot
Mike Brown if they recover it:
[http://www.salon.com/2014/08/13/anonymous_released_alleged_a...](http://www.salon.com/2014/08/13/anonymous_released_alleged_audio_from_st_louis_county_police_dispatch_from_the_day_michael_brown_was_killed/)

~~~
jmathai
I've been listening to the dispatch recording and haven't heard anything about
the shooting. I've even forwarded it to 2pm. If anyone finds a direct link
then paste it in.

------
Shinkei
It takes a lot of courage to stand your ground in these situations. Sounds
like the classic South Park "Respect my Authoritah" sums up the cause of this
confrontation.

------
ugh123
Police have enormous protection from their unions. Their internal
investigation units are often staffed with people directly affiliated with the
union or former police personnel. This is often the reason why they can run
with no accountability or recourse for their actions.

------
bdevine
Here's an article detailing just how it is that all these local police
departments are getting such lovely weapons of mass murder:

[http://www.newsweek.com/how-americas-police-became-
army-1033...](http://www.newsweek.com/how-americas-police-became-
army-1033-program-264537)

(Short answer: Congressionally-enabled DoD surplus transfers.)

------
BenSS
What's going on with the moderation here? Nearly 200 points and it's vanished
from the first 120 results of the site.

------
Grue3
When did HN turn into /r/politics?

------
bayesianhorse
Stop bitching, start suing...

------
venportman
This thread is going to be deleted, censored, disappeared, etc.

