
David Cameron: TV crime dramas prove we need warrantless electronic surveillance - gb
http://boingboing.net/2014/01/30/david-cameron-tv-crime-dramas.html
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fit2rule
This is so typical of the British attitude - its on TV, so it must be true, or
have weight, or .. something.

I cannot fathom how an entire nation of people can allow themselves to be
duped so well, by so few. The entire 'keeping people safe' position is a
button that gets pushed and pushed - do the English really fear for their
lives so much that they are willing to give up so much freedom, and to allow a
powerful elite to rule them? The answer, centuries old: YES.

It is my belief that the English zeitgeist is so riddled with guilt over what
_IT_ did to its colonies and foreign possessions, that it is currently in the
death throws of a society crippled by its own crimes against humanity. This
notion of the elite nature of the British Empire serves no purpose other than
to polarize the people of that tiny nation against all others .. and this is
terribly shocking.

The British people will _never_ be truly safe for as long as they continue to
deny their own empires criminal behaviour. What England did to Ireland; what
it did to its colonies; what it continues to do in foreign lands, daily - this
is the true source of danger for the English people. No amount of
pontificating/Mind Control being force-fed on the British public will ever
address the dire straits in which England has forcefully left millions of
people, not subjects of their empire but nevertheless victims, all over the
world.

~~~
lewispollard
> I cannot fathom how an entire nation of people can allow themselves to be
> duped so well, by so few.

The same reason as in every western democracy, including the US: massive
marketing budgets & the media.

> It is my belief that the English zeitgeist is so riddled with guilt over
> what IT did to its colonies and foreign possessions, that it is currently in
> the death throws of a society crippled by its own crimes against humanity.

What absolute nonsense. So many countries have committed atrocities on a
similar level, and many more recently than the British empire. Should the
Norwegians be crippled by guilt for the actions of the vikings? Should the
Americans be crippled by guilt for crimes against the native people? Should
the Japanese and Germans be crippled by guilt for atrocities committed in WW2?
People don't live in the past.

~~~
fit2rule
Nobody should be crippled by guilt - but todays generations ought to damned
well be held responsible for the wealth they enjoy as a result of the slaves
their parents owned. It wasn't that long ago, and we still have people in
modern society who _are_ responsible for atrocities, yet are nevertheless
getting away with it - because, as you say, 'people dont live in the past' ..

~~~
lewispollard
> but todays generations ought to damned well be held responsible for the
> wealth they enjoy as a result of the slaves their parents owned.

No. People should by all means recognise the privilege they have and make
ethical decisions based on that privilege - but they shouldn't be 'held
responsible' for it as if they're criminals themselves.

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bdfh42
I don't know. His parents spent all that money to send him to a public school
(that's private for most of the world) and then a top university. And it turns
out he gets all his ideas from newspapers and TV drama.

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DanBC
Shitty source means people are not commenting on what he actually said. The
actual law any how right / wrong it is is ignored; what happens if that law is
broken is ignored.

This is a type of article that Hacker News fucking sucks at - ignorant
flamebait attracts indignant comments which get many upvotes. Ignorance is
spread and people don't bother finding out the reality.

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cyphax
I have to admit that I think I understand where this idea comes from. I
watched The Wire a while back. In the series, the ability to tap phone lines
is vital to uncovering the criminal activities they seek to end. So vital, in
fact, that they named the whole show after it. It proved to be an important
tool.

The problem is that it is fiction, so I don't worry all that much about
privacy of characters, because they don't exist. It is also absolute, in terms
of us knowing who the bad guys are, and why. So while it might be a realistic
enough view on events that happen in real life, it's still bound by it being a
TV show and therefor I'm not too sure if we could ever use it to illustrate,
let alone prove anything this important (our privacy).

I should hope that the prime minister of the UK makes this distinction, too,
before basing any actual decision on it.

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mavus
The actual BBC article linked on boingboing is less editorialised and contains
the actual quote: "In the most serious crimes [such as] child abduction
communications data... is absolutely vital. I love watching, as I probably
should stop telling people, crime dramas on the television. There's hardly a
crime drama where a crime is solved without using the data of a mobile
communications device."

While I strongly oppose any warrant-less surveillance bills. I can agree with
the statement. Nothing makes me a sympathise with the police more than crime
dramas. So much to the point where I feel some American TV procedurals are
almost propagandist and a lot of people assume the police have more rights
than they do because of TV. But this is reality and things aren't as black and
white as that.

~~~
bengillies
> "There's hardly a crime drama where a crime is solved without using the data
> of a mobile communications device."

All you can really tell from that statement though is that script writers
enjoy adding in wiretapping, etc as it's both reasonably engaging to watch and
really easy to write about. It says nothing whatsoever about actual policing
or indeed the ramifications involved.

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KiwiCoder
From the BBC article referenced by boingboing - "He said TV crime dramas
_illustrated_ the value of monitoring mobile data."

From the boingboing article - "David Cameron: TV crime dramas _prove_ we need
mass warrantless electronic surveillance"

~~~
Squarel
I am not sure that makes it any better.

Crime dramas illustrate many things, not all of them related to reality.

~~~
collyw
Yes, all passwords can be cracked by using a unix terminal and typing fast
enough.

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DateK
The April Jokes season is starting early this year.

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Ygg2
Wat.

Wat.

 _blinks_ Wat.

This must be stupidest thing I've ever read in my entire life. It's like
saying that we should all affix a gun to our hand because it works so well in
FPS.

Or that hiding in a corner makes you recover from cancer. I don't care if he
didn't say it really.

I blame either him for saying or the journalist for writing so illogical.

~~~
gb
The exact quote from the linked BBC article is:

 _" In the most serious crimes [such as] child abduction communications
data... is absolutely vital. I love watching, as I probably should stop
telling people, crime dramas on the television. There's hardly a crime drama
where a crime is solved without using the data of a mobile communications
device."_

~~~
Ygg2
Ok, then the writter is just a moron.

It's a weak position, but he is using an analogy, so that makes (slightly)
more sense.

I wonder how much of such data can be used in a police investigation? I'm
actually Ok that they use it to prevent a crime, but charging you for it, if
they don't have any legal evidence is also fine by me.

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cafard
Damn. I look forward to his thoughts on driving.

