
Trying to corner the market on legal marijuana - seoguru
https://www.gq.com/story/the-great-pot-monopoly-mystery
======
DoctorNick
I went ahead and looked up these patents. This one looks particularly bad:

[https://www.google.com/patents/US9370164](https://www.google.com/patents/US9370164)

This basically grants them a patent on every single cannabis plant which has
>3% THC and CBD, and which Myrcene is not the dominant terpine. Can anyone who
knows their bud say which strains this could be applied to?

Also, the specification on this is HUGE. This represents a large investment;
they're going to filing continuations on this until the cows come home.

EDIT: I found this website:
[http://analytical360.com/](http://analytical360.com/)

This lists a number of strains that could potentially read on this, such as
Gorilla Glue:
[http://analytical360.com/m/archived/261533](http://analytical360.com/m/archived/261533)

~~~
jasonlaramburu
Myrcene is the dominant terpene in all strains of cannabis according to this
study:
[http://www.internationalhempassociation.org/jiha/jiha4208.ht...](http://www.internationalhempassociation.org/jiha/jiha4208.html)

Cannabis has been cultivated and sold illegally in the US for almost a
century. It seems unlikely that the USPTO would be able to enforce compliance
when law enforcement has not.

~~~
Taek
Legal marijuana will push out illegal marijuana. Large, industrial farms will
outcompete anyone who is growing illegally.

And that is going to make it much easier to regulate. Patents have the
potential to pick the winners in this industry if they are handed out
irresponsibily.

~~~
code_duck
Currently, the black market can provide cannabis in colorado, california or
oregon for about half the price of the legal market (and generally, if you
wanted half a lb to stock up for personal use, you can't just go buy it at a
store anyway). Part of the lower price is due to competition from legal
sources, part due to not paying taxes.

Personally, I would rather grow it at home exactly like tomatoes, if it's
herb.

Most of the action these days is in extracts and fine products for
connoisseurs. Don't underestimate the semi-luxury market - the same
demographic who support microbreweries and small coffee roasters like
cannabis. While there will be giant mass market Wal-Weed, and also large
plantations like the wine complex of Napa, there will also be a lot, lot of
small growers, extractors and breeders.

~~~
sethrin
Ah, growing cannabis isn't quite like growing tomatoes. Growing tomatoes is
something that a tomato plant does more or less of its own accord. Cannabis
really wants to be 15 feet tall and to produce lots of little seeds. Getting
it to exclusively produce flowers requires a bit more effort. The 15 feet tall
thing may also require some adjustment.

What I'd like to do is to create something about refrigerator-sized which
would use hydroponics to get cannabis growing as close to being a push-button
operation as possible. I built a prototype a few years ago that was at least
able to provide the entertainment of being able to control the
lights/fans/pumps via cron job, but life hasn't worked out to be able to do
that again. I do think there's a market for such things for pretty much the
reasons you identify.

~~~
spraak
I think you missed the analogy. Firstly, it isn't about the amount of work
required, because growing good tomatoes requires work as well. Yes, a tomato
seed will produce tomatoes on its own, but so will cannabis produce flowers.
But in both cases the product might not be as satisfactory as you'd like. You
may lose some tomatoes to bugs, and they may not be very big. Same with
cannabis, it may be seeded out if there are males around.

Secondly, I think the analogy was more about the enthusiasm a home gardener
has, where tomatoes are often something they would grow. So the poster above
meant that they'd rather cannabis to be regulated in the same way tomatoes
are: you can grow them without regulation at your house, but if you want to
sell them commercially (to stores and restaurants) then further licensing is
required.

~~~
sethrin
I suppose I wasn't clear enough. I do think that his characterization of the
social role of cannabis is accurate, but the technical challenges are a bit
different. Which is mostly just an opportunity to mention my personal
technological interest in this. Which may not be quite entirely topical.

~~~
spraak
I think that the technical challenges of growing cannabis vs. tomatoes is
indeed different, but can be equally difficult or simple, related to the
quality of the product you want. There are similar such inventions for growing
tomatoes to what you mention for cannabis. Tomatoes too have a long history of
breeding for size and other aspects as well, again similar to cannabis. You
can grow "ditch weed" just as easily as poor quality tomatoes by not tending
the plants etc.

------
incompatible
Ah, patents again. Who wants free markets when you can have a winner-take-all
system based on government-granted monopolies.

~~~
etplayer
Ah, capitalism. Who wants the free association of individual producers as
labourers when you can have wage labour and the cycle of capital crisis in a
commodity economy backed up by the State acting on behalf of the property
owners for the benefit of the rich to the detriment of the poor as Adam Smith
noted even in the 18th century?

The free market was so called because it is free from control of its
participants :)

Edit: To be clear, I'm arguing against capitalism as a manifestation of
freedom, I'm sure we both agree that patents and copyrights should not exist
in a free society, though.

~~~
scaryspooky
Ah, socialism. Who wants a non-totalitarian state when you can just enslave
the people like all the utopian socialist societies.

Oh, are we just being hyperbolic? A capitalist would say a socialist is wrong
and this is cronyism. A socialist would say capitalism is wrong and this is
cronyism.

~~~
ringaroundthetx
man, 'socialist' really has a branding problem

Guess the european nations are going to simply need a new word in order to
stop being conflated with North Korea, and former european nations

~~~
tpm
Socialism does not mean redistribution. There are currently no socialist
countries in Europe, if we take the definition of socialism as social
ownership and democratic control of the _means of production_. Some socialist
policies are implemented in some sectors of the economy and society in some
countries, but there is no country in Europe where this is true for large
enough parts of the economy.

~~~
ringaroundthetx
Yeah but any politically active "socialist" in America is talking about
"implementing some socialist policies in some sectors of the economy and
society" just like in Western Europe

and gets run out by other Americans in all levels of society that imagine
North Korea because of the word alone

branding problem. if you are talking about one thing and the other people
don't understand, then the language isn't working.

------
indescions_2017
Headline of this evening's South China Morning Post: How China Quietly Grew
Into a Cannabis Superpower

[http://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2108347/green...](http://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2108347/green-
gold-how-china-quietly-grew-cannabis-superpower)

Article states that more than half of the 600 patents related to cannabis are
held in China. Unclear if they relate to industrial hemp or medicinal uses.

The race to get coveted FDA approval is even more heated. If GW
Pharmaceuticals' stock price is any indication, it may be first out the gate
with its CBD-based epilepsy treatment, Epidiolex.

A powerful drug derived from marijuana is on the cusp of federal approval

[http://www.businessinsider.com/marijuana-epilepsy-
drug-2017-...](http://www.businessinsider.com/marijuana-epilepsy-drug-2017-5)

------
igichdyfhc
Its amazing that we at all allow the possibility of a field brimming with
promise, that resulted in so much oppression to poor minorites, to be
suddenly, just as the moment turned towards freedom, captured and terms
dictated by a small group of rich people when others have bled, been deprived
of their freedom, and were there first.

------
mnm1
This is absurd. If these patents are ever enforced, I hope the cannabis
industry doesn't stop until they've destroyed this company, the people who run
it, and anyone who associates with them. In a court of law or otherwise.

~~~
gcb0
they already are for soy and corn et al...

------
drewmol
I once had an economics professor who insisted the bigger hurdle to marijuana
legalization was monetizing it. It's a quite unique cash crop in that it only
takes a small area and small amout of labor to produce large supply. His
words, paraphrased: "You can grow enough marijuana in your basement to meet
the demands of your whole neighborhood! And it's a difficult thing to patent
to use IP ownership as a revenue model..."

Looks like BioTech Institute LLC (and I'm sure lots of others) are trying to
address the second point.

~~~
grecy
It's also extremely simple to produce enough alcohol for your entire
neighborhood in your basement with a home-made still.

That has not stopped the monetization of alcohol...

People who want to make billions from this will simply lobby until there are
extremely strict laws in place to protect their profits, and then also lobby
to make sure there are wars and extremely strict punishments for violators of
those laws.

~~~
rangibaby
Even the easiest homebrewing requires more knowledge and skill than dumping
some seeds in your garden, which is literally all you need to do to get an
acceptable crop of _weed_

~~~
seattle_spring
Acceptable certainly is relative. If you just "dumped some seeds in your
garden", you would get seedy, low-grade crap weed, regardless of what strain
you planted. Good weed requires proper attention and care.

~~~
malka
Wont kill them or blind them. Will get them High. Wont taste that good.bad
weed is More acceptable than Bad alcohol

~~~
saturdaysaint
At worst, any weed being sold today will make for fantastic edibles.

------
perpetualcrayon
What is the current state of Case Law with regard to DNA in the US? And how,
if at all, would this carry over to the genetics of plants?

How much of a natural product is it safe to say is patentable? And how much of
the patent has to depend on things like "processes of manufacturing", etc?

------
arca_vorago
What annoys me is I was trying to tell people this was were this was headed. I
suspect Monsanto is the big player or affiliated with whoever it is.

The right to grow needs yo be solidified.

~~~
rando444
If you'd read the article, you'd know it's not Monsanto.

~~~
gwern
It would not be surprising if they were counting on the possibility of selling
to the giants like Monsanto. The giants don't dare get involved directly at
the early stage, just too much legal and reputational danger, but they are one
of the logical exits for people who can go in earlier and lock up all the IP.

~~~
scaryspooky
Honestly the biggest fear is you can't lawfully use water to grow your own
food. Patents be damned, you will be in jail in many states if your water use
wasn't to just poop in a toilet. I guess people in a desert like Phoenix will
be able to justify a grass lawn and a pool via some absurd use of water law.

------
erikb
The sad thing about growing up is that most of the magic unicorns die. Yes, it
is a nice story, but if it is not the 1 in a million exceptional story it's
probably one of the five big players behind this company. And if they really
are close to getting a legal lock on the market the other big players are
either making deals with them already behind closed doors or they are
partnering up and we'll soon see legal battles about these patents.

For the end result it also doesn't really matter how the fight will go. Either
1, 2 or 3 of them will find a balance that all of them can live with and the
rest of the market will just die, starting from the smaller participants,
either by going bankrupt or by merging with bigger players. Soon everything
will become legal and you can buy standardized packages in the super market
with a few illegal players continuing to gamble against the law but never
really making big bucks out of it.

------
rando444
Great article.

I love good journalism like this. Well written, informative, and interesting.

Thanks for sharing!

~~~
josefdlange
I in particular enjoyed the narrative it was woven into -- following the steps
of the investigation bit by bit.

------
Animats
Nobody filed a post-grant objection. It's easy to challenge a patent in the
first 9 months, but 9,370,164 has been out for more than a year.

------
millzlane
Funny....my cousin just got locked up for that a few weeks ago.

~~~
stephengillie
Tell him to move somewhere that it's legal.

~~~
Simon_says
His ability to move now might be impeded.

------
rdiddly
So everybody goes back to growing it surreptitiously.

