

Ask HN: Free weights, do you use them? - bluemetal

I have two 10kg dumbbells that I use to keep up my fitness since moving to the city from the family farm, but I'm not sure if I'm using them correctly or if they're even the right equipment. Does anyone on HN have some experience with free weights? Maybe post schedules, favorite techniques or blow apart any misconceptions I/others might have?
======
philk
Okay, a few thoughts:

1) Two 10kg dumbbells will be insufficient in even the short term. The idea is
to make progress over time; ie being able to lift more weight for the same
number of reps.

2) You need an exercise program built around the compound lifts. That is:

* Deadlifts

* Squats

* Bench Press

* Overhead Press

* Chinups/Pullups

There's quite a few of these around; Stronglifts and Starting Strength are two
that come to mind. Find one of them on the internet and stick to it
religiously for a few months. Don't try to tweak it yourself.

3) To perform these properly you'll either need to join a gym or get access to
the following:

* A 20 kg olympic barbell and plates

* A power rack

* A bench

You'll use the power rack to do the pullups/chinups and protect you while
squatting and benching (it's much more vital when you don't have a spotter to
help you if you try lifting something too heavy for you).

4) Form is vital. You can do quite a bit of damage to your body with shitty
form.

5) Get plenty of rest and healthy food. Diet is probably harder to stick to
than working out simply because it takes up so much time.

6) Three full body workouts each week is plenty.

7) Track your progress. It's much easier to stick to something if you can see
that you're putting on muscle/losing fat/whatever. Use spreadsheets with
weight/weights lifted, photos of your physique over time, the works.

~~~
billswift
1 is pure BS, you can do a maintenance program, or you can increase reps
rather than weights, to increase your stamina.

2 is more, you can do whatever program you want, unless you want to become a
competitive bodybuilder, there is no need for conforming to someone else's
idea of what you should do. I would suggest reading in a decent book - I like
Garhammer's _Strength Training_ \- and take what you want.

3 is gross overkill.

4 With free weights and gradually increasing the weight form mostly takes care
of itself. If it is actually painful, rather than just hard, then don't do it.

5 is actually general enough that I can't criticize, nice change.

6 is also true. On the other hand, relatively light, but long, maintenance
workouts _every day_ are useful in burning excess calories.

7 is good if you are trying to "progress", on the other hand it doesn't help
much on a maintenance program. The best advice is to simply try to set up a
program you can enjoy, then do it. Working out with someone else is generally
the best motivator.

~~~
freescale
On the off chance some people might takes billswift seriously and injure
themselves, let me state that 'gradually increasing the weight' does not
induce good form. Moreover, much of the benefits of deadlifts and squats will
not be had either unless performed correctly.

Get 'Starting Strength' by Rippetoe and buy a few sessions with a (good)
personal trainer who knows power lifting. Best money you'll ever spend.

~~~
billswift
More BS. It is nearly impossible to hurt yourself with free weights unless you
drop them or try to lift something much too heavy.

~~~
mattmiller
I can't tell if you are being serious or not. A lot of people who lift hurt
themselves at some point, especially as they get older. It happens, it is
usually because of not focusing on form and pushing too hard.

Form is important, and not always intuitive.

~~~
starkfist
It's easier to hurt yourself on the machines than it is with free weights.
Your brain/body won't let you try to squat way more than you can actually
squat. If you can override this instinct and actually try to throw up more
weight than you can handle, the way olympic weights work make dumping the
weight almost automatic. You will embarrass yourself but won't get hurt. You
should be using a spotter anyway.

However, you can load up a hip sled machine with way more weight than you
should be attempting and destroy your lower back or knees. Personally, I
believe leg press machines and their ilk should be banned. I know too many
people with fucked up knees and backs from using those (myself included.)

------
gexla
This is too big of a subject to be addressed at hacker news. Just do your
research on the web. Honestly, you will probably get as much misinformation
here as you will get anywhere. It also depends on what your goals are.

You are seriously limited by 10kg dumbells and if you lack space then your
only option for a real free weight workout is to get a membership to a gym.
Even if you could fit in a bench and more weights, you should also have access
to a squat rack which you certainly wouldn't have room for.

Start out with the most basic free weight exercises for each of the major
muscle groups and then go from there. Also, start out with just the bar or
some small weights to get the form correct. If you don't have experience with
free weights you might get a trainer to start out with you and check your
form. Alternatively you might find an experienced lifting partner. If the
place has mirrors you can check out your form that way as well.

Check your progress towards your goals. Those goals will also determine what
sort of scheme you end up with. When starting out, you only need to hit the
gym a few times per week and probably for about 45 minutes. You don't have to
do anything fancy. Once you hit a plateau it's time to change it up, though
you need to change things up before you hit that point.

As long as you have good form and you don't get injured then you don't have to
worry about getting everything else totally right. You will learn along the
way and at first you get the benefit of fast progress even with a less than
perfect routine. By the time you hit a plateau then you will be far enough
along to figure out how to tweak your routine.

Also, try to turn this into a lifestyle change. Otherwise you will be one of
those people who buy a membership and never go. ;)

~~~
billswift
Squat rack isn't all that useful. It is only really necessary for squats, and
deadlifts work the same muscles; and they are safer since you never have the
bar where you can drop it on yourself.

~~~
starkfist
Squat rack is actually very versatile. It can be used as the place where you
leave the bar for bench press and military press, and barbell curls. This way
you can just get a simple flat bench instead of a dedicated bench press bench.
Also you can put pull up holds at the top which can be used for pull ups as
well as hanging leg lifts. Lastly, you can store the plates on it.

------
rleisti
At the beginning of April, I picked up a book called "The New Rules of
Lifting". I like it, because it explains how to do a variety of exercises of
six kinds: squat, deadlift, lunge, push, pull, twist. Also, it describes a few
programs, which I find very good for motivation as it gives you specific
things to do on a regular basis.

When I started, I acquired a barbell, two dumbells, a swiss ball and about 80
pounds or so of plates. I quickly got a squat rack (just something simple; you
can only lift so much up to your shoulders and drop it back down safely), but
I only recently got a bench. I now have over 200 pounds of plates, which I got
at a used-equipment store. I've found that you need a lot of weight for a)
squats and b) so you can move from one exercise to another quickly without
having to move plates from the bar to the dumbells.

I also got a "power gym": the pull-up device that hangs in a door frame. With
slight modification to one of my door frames in the basement, I found it works
pretty well.

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lukenathan
People have gotten way too technical with this.

You need to do some sort of a squat, pull, and press at least once a week. Go
heavier each workout, or at least each week.

You don't need to read any fancy books about physiology, and although I think
that Starting Strength is the best book on the market for learning how to
train sensibly, it's no replacement for a good coach. If you go to
StartingStrength.com, there is a directory of coaches. Or, just find someone
at a gym who is strong, and ask him (or her) to show you a couple of lifts.
Start comparing what he tells you to videos you watch online, and go from
there.

Jim Wendler (of EliteFts.com) likes to say that he's glad the internet didn't
exist when he was learning how to train because it forced him to go out there
and just lift instead of wanking around on internet forums and trying to find
the perfect 8 week program.

------
da5e
I would suggest that you can get a lot out of 10kg dumbbells by being creative
and very aware. Figure out things to do with the dumbbells that are difficult,
then do them carefully with constant awareness of possible injuriousness.
Asymmetrical stuff is helpful since most of our activities don't happen on
both sides at once (for instance, like carrying groceries) So carry one
dumbbell around the house or office with you while you do other things. Set it
down. Pick it up with each hand. Put it under the desk. Then fetch it out. Do
the things you do every day but do them with weight. Standard weightlifting is
great but it can ignore all the smaller muscles that we use every day that
support the larger ones. Just don't hurt yourself by either doing the right
thing too much or the wrong thing once too often.

------
Skyline
Also, if you're already in decent shape and have the time to devote at least
an hour per day to working out, I highly recommend P90X:
[http://www.beachbody.com/product/fitness_programs/best_selle...](http://www.beachbody.com/product/fitness_programs/best_sellers/p90x.do)

You've probably seen cheesy late night informercials for it on TV, but it
really is a GREAT way to build muscle and lose weight if you dedicate yourself
to it and have the willpower to push yourself to the limit.

But don't just take my word for it. It has 4.5 out of 5 stars from 500+ people
on Amazon.com: <http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000TG8D6I/ref=cm_sw_su_dp>

------
mbenjaminsmith
In college I used to weight train 6 - 7 days a week. I've never been able to
get results out of a single set of weights. You really need a full range of
weights and a full set of benches (incline, decline, upright, etc) to build
any muscle mass.

Since you can't really increase mass, you should think about doing a
relatively high number of reps and whatever exercises you can come up with.
You'll at least maintain muscle tone doing that (you may drop some muscle mass
or add fat, depending on your diet).

If you just want to be healthy, you can't go wrong with an aerobic exercise
(whatever fits your current circumstances). I live in a crowded city and
running saves my sanity.

~~~
bluemetal
Thanks for the response. Currently I am doing:

mon - 100 bicep curls - 100 hammer curls

tue - 100 shrugs

wed - rest

thu - 100 shrugs - 100 bicep curls - 100 hammer curls

fri - rest

sat - 100 shrugs

sun - rest

Several weeks in now and I have bulked up a bit, but not a very large amount.
Quite willing to hear recommendations/tips about what I'm doing. I have
trouble finding time to get out and get much aerobic exercise, but find I can
get some reading done while I lift weights in front of my screen or lift them
while wait for food to cook.

EDIT: oh, and I go in lots of ten, so 100 = ten reps of ten if I've got my
terminology right

~~~
thompo
there are a million things that need to be addressed but i'm going to be as
basic as i possibly can.

#1 - if you can read while you exercise, you're not exercising. if you want to
accomplish something meaningful with weights while "waiting for food to cook",
you're in for a world of disappointment.

#2 - a decent olympic bar and basic assortment of plates (5/10/25/45) can be
had on craigslist for cheap ($30). you're going to outgrow those 10lb
dumbbells in a week.

#3 - you're only working two of the smallest muscle groups there are. you need
to focus not on building biceps, but building an overall strength base and
level of fitness. this is best achieved with BASIC BARBELL MOVEMENTS - squat,
deadlift, bench press, overhead press, barbell row, clean, lunge, etc.
research and learn these movements, they're the key to unlocking both mass and
strength gains. body weight exercises like dips and pullups are crucial as
well. (and for the love of god, if there's one thing that you take away from
this, it's that you have legs and they're the biggest muscle group you have...
work them!)

#4 - find a popular template such as the stronglifts 5x5
([http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5-beginner-strength-
tra...](http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5-beginner-strength-training-
program/)) or one of the Westside for Skinny Bastards programs
([http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/38-articles/60-wes...](http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/38-articles/60-westside-
for-skinny-bastards-part1.html)). these will give you a basic understanding of
how to build a program around the common lifts.

#5 - diet is equally as important as what you're doing with the weights. sleep
is the other leg of the tripod.

#6 - set goals. and have fun. :)

EDIT: there's another thing i should add that is absolutely crucial --

please learn to perform these lifts properly. study videos online, look at
pics of other lifters, and practice with a broom stick. hell, you'll gain more
in a month from practicing the basic movements with a broomstick than you
would from continuing your current program for five years. i cant stress
enough that these movements are the basic building blocks of all strength
fitness, and when done properly they can transform you into a lean, mean
animal. when done improperly, however, you risk everything from looking like a
fool at the gym to eventually blowing a disc in your lower lumbar and spending
the next two years rehabbing rather than achieving your fitness goals.

double edit-- <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1401515>

reference this older post of mine for more detail on some program templates,
and definitely look into "never gymless" if you're interested in what you can
achieve without weights.

~~~
thompo
and if we could get some feedback from you, the following would be helpful --
current height/weight, your average daily diet (meals, meal times, snacks,
everything)

~~~
bluemetal
Other information:

My diet is mostly chicken stir-fry with rice, or something based on baked
beans for dinner. I'm trying to cut back on pasta because of weight gain but
still have it with beans or vegetables once a week.

I often miss breakfast, but when I don't it's muesli or weetbix, on rare
occasions porridge.

Snacks are mostly bananas or ham and cheese wraps. Also carrots with hummus,
or cuppa soup. My lunch is usually some mixture of these. I only drink once a
week, sometimes once a fortnight.

My schedule is approx. 8:30am breakfast, 1pm lunch, 6:30-7:00pm dinner.
Usually with a snack before lunch and maybe after dinner.

My height is about 179cm (5 foot 10?) and my weight sits around 98kg (215.6
lbs).

Hope this is what you were after.

Edit: forgot to mention microwaved potato as a fairly common lunch

------
hellotoby
I would suggest reading The Poliquin Principles
([http://www.amazon.com/Poliquin-Principles-Successful-
Strengt...](http://www.amazon.com/Poliquin-Principles-Successful-Strength-
Development/dp/0966275209))

It provides a great insight into not only the difference between light and
heavy weight but also reps and timing.

------
Skyline
I highly recommend replacing those 10kg dumbbells with a set of adjustable
dumbbells like <http://www.powerblock.com/blocks.html>

I purchased a set about 7 years ago and it's probably the best fitness/workout
related purchase I've ever made in terms of overall use and value.

------
anemecek
[http://www.dumblittleman.com/2008/10/six-rules-of-
building-s...](http://www.dumblittleman.com/2008/10/six-rules-of-building-
strength.html)

