

My interesting experience with the TSA - guynamedloren
http://madebyloren.com/interesting-experience-with-the-tsa

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angersock
What's troubling here in the article is the implicit assumption that the TSA
has any business knowing who is traveling on what planes.

Why don't we allow anybody with a ticket to show up and buy a ticket to
anywhere else if they can afford it? Freedom of movement is very important, as
is privacy--it seems we've lost sight of this fact.

~~~
tptacek
There is still more freedom of movement in the US than there is in any
comparably large area of the world; one of the most jarring things about
traveling in Europe to me was the extent to which my identity was routinely
challenged.

~~~
Udo
_> one of the most jarring things about traveling in Europe to me was the
extent to which my identity was routinely challenged._

Could you elaborate on that? There are a lot of countries where no passport
control at all is taking place if you're coming in from another EU country.

Granted, as a EU citizen I might have an easier time moving around overall,
but in my experience the EU feels more like one big country than a patchwork
of smaller ones - and I move around here a lot. Going on a cross-country
flight within the US is usually significantly more hassle than hopping from
Frankfurt to Oslo. Once you're in the EU you should be able to move freely.

What happened to you?

~~~
tptacek
Nothing bad; I was just routinely forced to hand over my passport. And, on a
train from Zurich to Prague, my bags were taken off the overhead rack and
searched.

Remember, when we Americans want to make the point that we're different from
Europe, we say "papers, please!" to make fun of it. The idea is supposed to be
that we don't _do_ "papers, please!" here. Unfortunately, we've lost a bit of
that in the last 15 years, but we're still only approaching Europe.

~~~
Udo
_> Unfortunately, we've lost a bit of that in the last 15 years, but we're
still only approaching Europe._

You say that with a degree of certainty that deserves to be challenged.

You can travel through large swaths of the EU without showing your passport
even once. This week I was in France, Italy, Switzerland, Austria, and Germany
all by car, all without needing my passport (except hotels, but they do _that_
everywhere in the world).

Although it has gotten stricter in the last few years, flights from Germany to
Norway, Sweden, or Denmark could routinely be boarded without showing any ID
until recently. I live near the French border in Germany, but you wouldn't
even know when you're crossing it. In "heartland" Europe, there are often no
border stations at all. Sometimes you just notice you changed countries
because the street signs look slightly different.

Compared to a lot of other countries, including the US, EU police are doing
almost no traffic stops or other forms of public "papers, please" checks. The
last time I was in a traffic stop was about 5 years ago, and I accrue about
50k kilometers a year.

Compare that to a random Asian country where police are sometimes lying in
wait near ambiguous signage in order to catch expensive-looking rental cars
passing through, or compare that to a rural sheriff in a southern US state who
likes to capture (and throw in jail for a few hours with great fanfare) people
passing by in out-of-state cars when they predictably go a little above the
draconian speed limit on the completely empty and straight highway. In Cairo,
you can't even drive downtown from the airport without being stopped for ID at
least twice.

Maybe I'm missing a bit of the picture because I don't like to go by train,
but overall movement in Europe seems a lot less restricted than pretty much
everywhere else I've been to.

~~~
X4
I'm sorry, but you both don't understand it. The police has training in
identifying persons of interest or suspicious looking people. Tourists are
more routinely controlled, but I believe that black persons are more often
controlled for their passports (because police suspect them of staying illegal
in the country, or it's simply racism, idk). I can say that, because I travel
a lot, with all types of public transportation. WIth a car you only have ID-
Checks at borders, sometimes.

~~~
Udo
I'm sure both of us understand that. It's just that we're talking from
personal experience which in tptacek's case led to him asserting that the EU
is a thoroughly "paper's please" region, whereas the US is simply catching up.
In response to this I felt compelled to counter that notion as I believe it's
not factual. If I was in a polemic mood I'd have asserted that where ever
restrictions on freedom are introduced in Europe, it's because they're
emulating the US in that regard, not the other way around.

------
pmorici
They don't hire for the "id checker" position based on intelligence.

~~~
X4
That guy isn't stupid or less intelligent, don't underestimate people!

He's just ignorant. Never ever underestimate ignorance, dear pmorici.

Ignorance brought as war, death, mass murder and governments..whoops how did
governments slip in here? ;)

------
carsongross
'Do better, TSA'?

Please, God, no. Don't do better.

------
jey
Come on now, Security Theater is for your own good.

------
PhantomGremlin
In that photo Loren does look like a girl.

The TSA agent was simply performing her bit role in Security Theater, I'd say
that the "transaction" went pretty well. The interaction appears to have taken
less than a minute. I fail to see how he "almost didn't make it through
security".

