
What a stranger taught me about Japan - hwayern
http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/20170413-the-mysterious-man-who-gave-me-japan
======
jpatokal
I find Pico Iyer's writing insufferable and this is a good example why: how,
exactly, do random interactions with the Japanese equivalent of a spoiled
trust-fund kid who can afford to spend his life noodling about with haiku and
abstract painting show the "living heart of traditional Japan"?

Then again, given that Iyer can't read Japanese despite living there for
several decades and he seems to take perverse pride in being illiterate [1],
he's not going have a lot of other local sources for insight...

[1] [http://m.dailygood.org/story/1092/the-art-of-stillness-
pico-...](http://m.dailygood.org/story/1092/the-art-of-stillness-pico-iyer/)

~~~
cloakandswagger
The first thing that struck me about this story was the absolutely terrible
writing:

>An elegant middle-aged man, in a spotless black jacket, came up to me, hand
extended, to say hello, and I was startled. My neighbours in Japan tend to be
formal and reticent; few of them are eager to take the initiative. And we were
simply standing around an art gallery on Kitayama Street in northern Kyoto, 20
years ago, where a handful of us had gathered to see an exhibition of a
friend’s pen-and-ink drawings.

This paragraph is awful from a purely grammatical perspective.

The second thing that becomes apparent is a definable arrogance and
pretentiousness from the author. As you said, the "essence of Japan" isn't a
trust fund baby selling his poems. If anything it is getting hired on at a
zaibatsu, working yourself to death, living alone in a tiny apartment and
developing alcoholism by age 30. This image isn't as fantastical as the one
Pico presents though.

~~~
nihonde
Japan is a very complex place, which is why it's so annoying when people like
Iyer reduce it to window dressing, or when you reduce it to some dystopian
Japan Times 過労死 click bait headline.

Edit: In case my point wasn't clear, I'm saying that it's better to taste the
tea, and useless to talk about it.

~~~
micaksica
> I'm saying that it's better to taste the tea, and useless to talk about it.

Yes, it is better to taste the tea, but useless to talk about it? That's a bit
strong, IMO. It is futile to reduce a culture to cliches, sure, but there is
always something to be learned from the discussion thereof - in fact, even
this shitty article has raised the point that "Japan is more than just this
cliche, so ignore this hack."

------
GuiA
The artist of which the author speaks is Notomi Shinsuke:

[http://www.artnet.com/artists/notomi-
shinsuke/biography](http://www.artnet.com/artists/notomi-shinsuke/biography)

The only work of his I can find online is "Sans Titre" (Untitled):
[http://www.arcadja.com/auctions/en/notomi_shinsuke/artist/46...](http://www.arcadja.com/auctions/en/notomi_shinsuke/artist/468532/)

Which seems to have sold at an auction in 2013 for 100 euros:

[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:VwAMXiI...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:VwAMXiI3PkUJ:www.sothebys.com/es/auctions/2013/hommage-
crommelynck-pf1334.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

He also has 2 book listings on Amazon, unsure if it is the same person:
[https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=dp_byline_sr_book_1?ie=UTF8&tex...](https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=dp_byline_sr_book_1?ie=UTF8&text=Shinsuke+Notomi&search-
alias=books&field-author=Shinsuke+Notomi&sort=relevancerank)

Edit: After some digging around, it seems that the kanjis used for のとみしんすけ are
納富慎介.

Google Images reveals a few additional works, and a scan of a ticket for a
gallery opening where his work was exposed in 2010:

[https://www.google.com/search?q=%E7%B4%8D%E5%AF%8C%E6%85%8E%...](https://www.google.com/search?q=%E7%B4%8D%E5%AF%8C%E6%85%8E%E4%BB%8B&client=safari&rls=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjt4sfT3LPTAhUHrVQKHfFUB14Q_AUICCgB&biw=1274&bih=1329#imgrc=isV_vC294_w6OM):

See this page particularly:
[http://crossroads.ldblog.jp/archives/51728356.html](http://crossroads.ldblog.jp/archives/51728356.html)

And the books on Amazon do seem to be his.

------
savanaly
This was a good article, but I think it was good because of the portrait it
paints of the man he met. I'm not calling all the claims about having learned
something "about Japan" unwarranted, but let me offer by way of counterbalance
this invaluable essay I read some time ago and to which I've returned whenever
someone brings up Japan like this. [0]

[0] [http://noahpinionblog.blogspot.com/2014/08/let-me-explain-
ja...](http://noahpinionblog.blogspot.com/2014/08/let-me-explain-japan-for-
westerners.html)

------
justifier
i used to work at a hotel and one year there was a japanese person staying at
the hotel

one day i was walking to a park to play some guitar and enjoy the sun and i
saw this person walking in front of me

i ran to catch up and asked the standard traveler questions: how long have you
been here? how are you enjoying the states?

thae explained that thae really enjoyed the us because, 'in japan it is all
take take take, and in the us it is all put, put, put'

i laughed, 'really? did you get that backwards? how do you mean?'

thae explained, 'in japan there is a really strong core of tradition from
which everyone draws from in order to live their lives, and in the us there is
a strong core of tradition that everyone adds to and changes'

i laughed, 'wow! that's great, do you want to hang out?!' ;P

it ended up being a great friendship and we even lived together for a few
months

i still think about that pearl of wisdom from time to time

------
ishi
"a culture in which the truest sign of intimacy is not needing to say a thing"
\- what a wonderful sentence! I must have been Japanese in a previous life :)

~~~
greggman
Actually that part drives me insane.

Maybe we're taking about different things but... My understanding is in the
USA it used to normal not to talk about affection for your partner. In the 70s
and 80s there was a huge cultural push to stop doing that and verbally express
your affection and appreciation. It was drilled in that assuming your partner
understands you feel for and appreciate them without saying it is like
believing in fairy tales. Your relationship will end in ruins and your partner
grows distant not knowing you actually care, appreciate , etc..

So here I am in Japan where I hear this stuff about not needing to express
that stuff. You should infer it. Except I can't accept that because it was
taught to me it's BS. So many spouses whos partner leaves feeling unappecisted
and the other partner is like "but I shouldn't have to say it you should just
know". There's 1000s of books on why that silence is a recipe for disaster. In
sex as well the advice in the USA builds and builds , say what you want, don't
expect your partner to read your mind. They won't (mind reading is impossible
and expecting your partner to devine what you want is childish). Your be
disappointed and frustrated and then take that out on your relationship.

So I don't buy it. They just sound old in the same sense that blood letting is
old.

~~~
mikekchar
Pretty much anybody I've met who comes to Japan with the romantic ideas
embraced by this article in there head ends up hating it. I'll be honest, I
think that this "silence" thing was never a Japanese thing in the first place.
I believe it is a misinterpretation of several cultural phenomena.

1\. The Japanese language allows you to be more imprecise but still have
people understand what you are talking about from context. If I've been
speaking Japanese for a long time, switching to English seems like a pain
because you have to spell everything out. Also, mood can be transmitted in
words where in English you would need tone of voice. In novels, you don't have
to describe that a person is irritated because you can simply choose to have
them say something in an irritated way. Similarly, people can make absolutely
cutting remarks without changing their tone of voice or getting agitated.

2\. Culturally, most shared spaces are understood to be quiet spaces. Man, I
hate riding the train in the UK. People think they are still in the pub. In
Japan, you can spot the foreigners in public spaces with your eyes closed
because they are invariably making a racket. This has nothing to do with
silent communication. It's just silence. In other places Japanese people are
_very_ noisy.

3\. Japanese people are raised in Japanese schools. This is where they are
taught manners, how to behave, etc, etc. I taught in a school in Shizuoka
prefecture, which has a relatively large Brazilian population. The children
from Brazilian families are quintessentially Japanese because they have been
taught the same way. It's very different than our method of letting parents
determine how to raise their children. The result of this is that Japanese
people have a huge base of common culture to work from. It's not that you
"should infer it" \-- it's blatantly obvious because it's been drilled into
your head 1000 times when you were at school. And _everyone_ has had the same
experience.

There is no magical transmission of knowledge. And as you said, crappy
marriages exist here just like anywhere else. Miscommunication is common. But
lots of things are understood by context, by culture or are simply not spoken
of. The timing of when, where and how you discuss things is completely
different, too.

~~~
knight17
> Japanese people are raised in Japanese schools.

I would like to know more about Japanese schools. You seem to know about
Japanese culture a great deal. Is there any material (fiction, non-fiction)
accessible in English that talks of this 'national character building'
occurring at Japanese schools.

~~~
mikekchar
I typed in some of my experiences, but it's too long for HN :-). Email me if
you would like my to send it to you. My contact details are in my profile.

------
bitwize
This story is kind of hokey, but it reminds me of the time I was on a layover
to California where I had lunch with a woman from Oregon and a finely dressed
old British gent. The Oregon lady was telling a story about how she allowed
her (retired) husband to buy, ride, and maintain a motorcycle without
complaint because it's a hobby he truly loves and enjoys. The British gent
replied with something like "You should always follow your dreams and pursue
what you love; if there's you truly want in your heart, you should go for it."
It would have sounded like utter horseshit coming from a motivational speaker,
but I was struck by the twinkle-in-eye sincerity with which he said it.

As he got up to go to his connecting flight he said "By the way, you should
look my name up on Google." I asked him what his name was and he replied
"Bobby Teale. T-E-A-L-E."

Bobby Teale was the man who informed on the Kray twins, Britain's most
notorious gangsters at the time, in the 1960s. He had gone into hiding for
_decades_ and re-emerged only just recently to reconnect with his brothers and
tell his life story.

------
sytelus
May be I'm missing something but all I read was this writer met an painter few
times. What did they discussed? what were his stories? what the author learned
more about Japan? There doesn't seem to be hint of those. Feels like I wasted
my time reading the whole thing through in anticipation author would say
something about the mysteries behind the mysterious stranger he was talking
about.

------
lol768
Meta note: if you're in the UK, this work is apparently not funded by the
license fee but the cache works:
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:AJEIClX...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:AJEIClX7_k4J:www.bbc.com/travel/story/20170413-the-
mysterious-man-who-gave-me-japan)

Definitely an interesting character that the article describes, I liked the
writing style too.

------
ksec
Completely off Topic:

With Catchy headlines ( Link Bait ) and people voting by the headlines, ( I
honestly dont know anyone who read the article first before giving it an
upvote ) I tend to skip the article and Jump to comment first. Not only for
Td;DR, but also reaction.

------
emodendroket
I'm amazed that people still write this kind of stuff.

~~~
slackstation
It seems that much of this article is about how little the author knew about
this person and then extrapolates an odd intimacy in the mysteriousness of it
because this eccentric guy remembered him and sent him gifts.

Further more, even though this guy acted completely different than every other
Japanese person he met, it somehow gives him greater insight into the culture?

------
yladiz
One thing that struck me about this article is that every single picture on it
has the author's name on it. Iyer, Iyer, Iyer. It really is strange to see 5
seemingly unnecessary photos, especially since the photo captions are just
explaining something or quoting something in the story, and aren't taken by
the author.

In any case, I feel this is a romanticized version of Japan that people really
try to find when they visit. I've certainly had some magical moments in Japan
-- Kyoto, especially Arahiyama, is very beautiful and some parts of it feel
magical -- but in general having visited multiple times and currently staying
here, I feel like Japan is an eastern Asian country with a separate language
and potentially more indoctrinated politeness. I'm curious why people get so
fascinated with Japan... Not that it isn't, but what makes it more fascinating
than, say, Korea, or New Zealand?

Also, is it common for things that aren't editorial or news to appear on BBC?
It feels out of place.

------
yawaramin
Great article, I'm wondering if Shinsuke's 'I'm dead' joke was wordplay on his
name? If I'm not mistaken, 'I'm dead' translates to 'ore wa shin da', which
sounds similar to 'ore wa Shinsuke da' ... then again, I could be way off :-)

------
johnnyyokohama
Iyer's article has inspired me to devote my first ever Youtube rant to it. He
makes a handsome living out of passing off really poor quality fiction as
mysterious "travel" journalism, written about where he actually lives. I think
you have to travel to qualify, Pico.

------
pyre
Anyone else getting this[1] vibrating text effect on the site?

[1]
[https://www.dropbox.com/s/fqupnni4jtjnraj/Vibrating%20Text.m...](https://www.dropbox.com/s/fqupnni4jtjnraj/Vibrating%20Text.mov?dl=0)

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teh_klev
For those of us in the UK:

[http://archive.is/M8y6o](http://archive.is/M8y6o)

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pitaa
Not the kind of article I typically read, but I thought that was incredibly
well-written.

------
gumby
So delighted to see work by Pico Iyer on HN. His writing is always thoughtful.

