
Microsoft offers webOS developers free Windows Phones and dev tools - Flemlord
http://www.winrumors.com/microsoft-offers-webos-developers-free-windows-phones-and-dev-tools/
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disgruntledwp7
Throwaway here.

I would take whatever Brandon or other WP7 dev team managers say or promise
with a heavy grain of salt.

Recently, I was in discussions with a couple people at Microsoft to swing one
of the free developer phones they were offering on Twitter.

They speak of giving one away like it's no big deal. So I had some back and
forth with them on an app, and they said something like "Ok, get a MVP and
we'll see about getting you some goodies". I got the MVP done and sent off
emails and haven't heard back from them in weeks. Not even a "no".

So yeah, I feel a little bitter about it all. It's not like they owe me
anything, but just take whatever Brandon, Ben, and gang say with a great big
grain of salt.

I see a lot of talk about supporting developers from Microsoft, but not a lot
of action.

~~~
BrandonWatson
Tell me exactly to whom you have been speaking. I want to make sure we make
good on our commitment to you. My email is ThePhone [at] Microsoft...please
reference this HN post.

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steverb
Say what you will about MS's blunders, but I've always found their developer
support and outreach to be top notch.

Although they've yet to offer me a free phone.

~~~
rbanffy
I'll consider developing for it as soon as the dev tools run on Linux. I
really don't want to run Windows.

edit: burn, karma, burn

~~~
mahmud
Why is this guy being downvoted? Mobile development tools don't need to be
tied to a desktop OS. Microsoft tauts Mono as a portable alternative. Let them
release a WP7 SDK that works on Mono. The Java SDK is much richer & much more
sophisticated, yet it has the same experience everywhere. Really, only
differences between writing Android apps with Eclipse on Win32 vs Linux vs Mac
are the window decorations.

Heck, even Postgres has portable tools. The GUI installer & PgAdminIII look
exact everywhere.

~~~
runjake
_Why is this guy being downvoted?_

Probably because he trolls Microsoft story submissions all the time.

------
potatolicious
What for? So these guys can get burned twice instead of once?

Sorry for the snark - I like WP7, I think it's a refreshing take on smartphone
UI, but adoption is really at a standstill. It's been _how long_ since it
launched and I've only ever seen one in the wild that didn't belong to someone
affiliated with MSFT.

God knows I'd love to have a viable third player in the mobile platform wars,
but as it is it just isn't happening.

~~~
rkwz
_> >It's been how long since it launched and I've only ever seen one in the
wild that didn't belong to someone affiliated with MSFT._

Not a fair comparison:

WP7 was launched in October 21, 2010[1] [2]

Android was launched 2 years earlier [3]

iOS more than 3 years earlier[4]

[1]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Phone> [2]Assuming that you're
talking about WP7 and not Windows Mobile
[3]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_%28software%29#Hardware>
[4]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_%28Apple%29#History>

edit: Please explain why I'm wrong before downvoting.

~~~
technoslut
Maybe I'm wrong, but the circumstances are different for WP7 than it was for
the iPhone and Android. I don't think that there was going to be any question
that the iPhone was going to be a success with the long lines at launch and
devs breaking into the OS to get apps to run. With Android, they were the
first true competitor to iOS when it came to touch-based phones.

With WP7 there doesn't seem to be the enthusiasm for the product. It's a
terrific OS but I get the feeling that they're really late to the game. This
could all change but I don't think anyone is willing to bet their money or
time on it, especially after the swift demise of WebOS.

~~~
cageface
I think the problem for WP7 is that there are now two "good enough" options
out there now so all new contenders are going to have to take things a big
step forward to attract any interest. From what I've seen of it WP7 isn't
enough of an improvement to be genuinely disruptive.

And Microsoft's indecisive churn on its development stack lately has got to
make developers a little wary.

~~~
mahyarm
They key to WP7 is that it's a competitor to Android. Apple iOS is not
available to OEMs, but Android and WP7 is. If handset OEMs do not have a
second choice, they'll have a single external dependency on Google and Google
will use it to push them around or Google might screw it up really bad. It's
in the OEMs best interest for WP7 to at least become somewhat successful so
they themselves have a second option.

~~~
rbanffy
There is no such dependency on Google with Android because it's open source.
You don't have to ask them permission or pay them money to build a phone with
it. I agree life may be hard if your competitors get the code before you do
and that you may want to have a cozy relationship with Google (and cooperate
with your competitors on some level) but it's nowhere close to the dependency
you get being a WP7 OEM.

If I ran a phone maker, I'd keep a WP7 handset or two in the lineup (because
there will be people who'll want it) and because I don't like to be cornered.
But I'd also keep a team ready to run with Android without Google support,
knowing exactly what I'd have to change if I couldn't use Google brands or
software.

But, again, you don't have to depend on Google like you do with Microsoft. And
true great devices come from the careful matching of hardware and software and
that's hard to do if you don't get the source code.

~~~
coob
You need a decent relationship with Google to maintain access to the
Marketplace, however.

~~~
rbanffy
You need to work together with Google to gain access to the whole ecosystem,
but nothing prevents you from having your own market and it may make sense in
some verticals (like B&N does)

------
mattwdelong
To be honest, I'm rather interested in trying out a WP7 phone. The problem
that I have is the fact that it's a huge barrier to entry to dish out hundreds
of dollars just to test out a small device. I'm not in a position to be able
to just dish money out like that, and I assume there are many people in the
same boat as me. I guess that's the greatest burden to anyone trying to break
into this market - everyone questions why they should dish out the same amount
of money for x phone, when they could just get an iPhone for approximately the
same amount of money - they already know everyone loves the iphone.

With that being said, I think Brandon Watson is doing his job extremely well -
he is eliminating that barrier to entry and getting hackers using WP7 devices.
Perhaps creating evangelists.

On a side note, Windows 7 has got me to switch back to a Windows OS, from
Debian, that I had been running as my main OS since Vista came out. I'm just
one guy, but Microsoft is doing _some_ things right. Maybe they can make WP7
work?

~~~
runjake
FWIW, you can commonly score an HTC Surround for about $100 on Craigslist, and
they are completely capable, albeit unsexy, devices. I never experience the
slightest lag or slowdown with Mango on mine, and it feels much faster than my
iPhone 4.

~~~
mattwdelong
I currently run an unsexy Android phone, so I could bare with something less
than optimal. It runs, makes phone calls and I can play with it, so I am happy
and fairly easy to please. With that being said, I just checked ebay and
you're right, the surround is listed quite cheap. I'm currently in Canada (for
now) so I wonder how easy it is to unlock so I can run it on a Canadian
carrier?

~~~
runjake
I paid $25 USD to get mine unlocked from htcimeiunlock.com. I'm told you can
get them for half that price. Got an unlock code back about 15 minutes after I
paid for it.

------
larsberg
That's neat and I'm glad to see it's so high-touch. I tried writing an app for
my phone, but got stymied... by the sign-up/verification process. Tried using
DreamSpark (<https://www.dreamspark.com/default.aspx> ), and unlike the Apple
sign-up there's this weird third party verification that you're a real human
developer or something and after weeks of trying to figure out how to get them
to actually validate me so I could install apps onto my phone, I just gave up.

And mind you, I pretty much know what I'm doing. I was on the Visual Studio
team for 7 years, I sold > $100k in iPhone apps, and I do work on compilers
towards my PhD right now. A poor undergrad might not even be able to get as
far as I did...

------
strmpnk
After seeing this I installed Windows (shocking, I haven't used Windows since
Windows 2000) and installed the express SDK to check it out.

I have to admit I'm actually liking what's there. While I didn't quite have my
webOS apps ready to be published, so I don't really qualify for this I guess,
I might have to consider the platform. The UI itself is fresh and much better
than what I saw from CE on PocketPCs years ago. Of course, not having an
actual phone hurts so maybe I'll wait and see how things evolve with the mango
release first; I'm still feeling pretty burnt on investing in webOS hardware.

------
rsanchez1
I tried sending him an email but got no response. Either the demand is too
much for them to keep up, or he's just blowing a lot of hot air.

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vipivip
I welcome Microsoft into the mobile platform competition.

~~~
rbanffy
I assume you are being sarcastic.

They have been in this race since the first release of Windows CE in the late
90's. They even dominated the segment for quite some time.

~~~
megablast
What is the deal with companies who have dominated the mobile sector, Palm,
Nokia, Microsoft, just losing focus, ignoring it for a while, and then letting
someone else come in and start making all this money.

Will Apple and Google head down this path? Unlikely, it seems to be worth more
money now than ever.

~~~
rbanffy
They start thinking the whole world revolves around them. They fail to take
competition seriously and fail to employ disruptive innovation to create their
next generation products. They forget people are buying usefulness and think
their clients want their products. The average user doesn't want a
computer/PDA/whatever - the average user wants to do the things they once
needed computers/PDAs/whatever for.

Will it happen to Apple and Google? Not sure. Possibly.

When companies get big, they start to abhor change. Change is what keeps
companies smart.

------
quattrofan
So what another 10 people will now have WP7 phone for a total of about 12
people (including Steve Ballmer and one mate of mine)?

