
Sedentary Behavior and Mortality in U.S. Middle-Aged and Older Adults - happy-go-lucky
http://annals.org/aim/article/2653704/patterns-sedentary-behavior-mortality-u-s-middle-aged-older-adults
======
swframe2
I changed my primary work goal 2 years ago. Now I try to minimize stress as
the most important goal of the work day. I redefined my job; it now is to
solve problems in the lowest stressful way. In other words, my employer is not
paying me to kill myself.

I walk 10 mins every 1 to 2 hours and use that time to review. I try to find
ways to solve problems in ways that are more fun, easier, and effective. So to
me a 10 min break is a work requirement. Solving a stressful problem and not
reducing the stress first is wrong. It isn't just something I do for my
health, it is the way people are supposed to work because it produces much
better solutions.

After 50 mins working on something very difficult my mind gets so mucked up.
Often I discover a simpler solution during the break and end up getting my
work done much faster.

Sometimes stress can peak and when that happens I just take a nap until it
dissipates. Usually just 30 mins but there are times when it can take an hour
or more. Again, I view the nap as doing work because often I wake up with a
simpler solution that also has much less stress. If I can't find one, then I
escalate the issue. Again, it isn't my job to absorb stress to the point where
it degrades my effectiveness.

Please note, I don't work on production system being used by 100s of millions
of users. I've done it; it was fun; it is not possible to reduce stress in
that work so it is not worth the effort. I now make 2x as much and have almost
no stress.

~~~
ourmandave
_I walk 10 mins every 1 to 2 hours and use that time to review. I try to find
ways to solve problems in ways that are more fun, easier, and effective. So to
me a 10 min break is a work requirement._

Ah, the old Walk-n-Talk meeting style.

[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WalkAndTalk](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WalkAndTalk)

If I could get Alan Sorkin's endorsement I'd sell it as a work out routine and
make millions.

~~~
dwaltrip
For breaks, I find letting my thoughts drift to be important. In fact, I try
to avoid thinking about my work doing many of my walks/breaks (sometimes I
can't help it though).

Doing a bit of low-key mindfulness and slowing my breathing has been very
helpful as well.

------
johnny313
The headline result (sedentary behavior leads to increased risk of mortality)
is not completely supported by the results shown in the abstract.

They break the test subjects into four groups ranked by activity level, and
compare the the highest activity group to the rest. But in the results, only
the lowest activity group has a hazard ratio where the 95% confidence interval
does not contain 1. Translation: the data only shows a meaningful difference
in mortality risk between the highest and lowest activity groups. For the
other two groups, the data does not support show an increased risk.

~~~
BenoitEssiambre
Also they didn't randomize the activity level of the subjects by putting them
on different exercise programs.

I would think that people being in an end of life state at the beginning of
the study would tend to be more likely to be tired and avoid exercise.

It could well be that early undiagnosed terminal illness causes people to be
sedentary and not the other way around.

~~~
GCA10
Agreed. We're back in cause vs. correlation territory, no?

The most sedentary people may also be the most obese, the most likely to
suffer from diabetes, the most burdened with respiratory and cardiovascular
diseases, etc. Their expected lifespans will thus be quite shorter.

I'm willing to believe that appropriate exercise is good for you, almost no
matter how robust or frail your health is. But this would be a much better
study if it tracked cohorts with roughly parallel starting health. That way,
the degree of active-vs.-sedentary living could be a study variable that
wasn't tainted by undocumented variations in starting health status.

------
overcast
This should be obvious, however people still refuse to get up, and just walk
around every hour for a minute. I spend a silly amount of time behind a
computer, but I'll do 10-20 pushups / jumping jacks, every hour or so. After
hours, I'll bang out six miles on the hiking trails.

Get up, go get a drink, do a lap around the office. Get a stand/sit desk. Do
some simple exercises. Pushups can be done anywhere, and will alleviate lower
back pain.

~~~
ffumarola
Seconded. I used to feel lower back pain due to the amount of sitting at a
desk. Running and lifting weights did wonders for how I feel on a daily basis.

~~~
eropple
Exercise didn't help me with my occasional back issues, but switching to a
standing desk really did. I didn't get one of those adjustable ones, because
$400 for a desk that raises and lowers was silly--instead I just got a draft-
height chair and stand and sit as appropriate.

~~~
flachsechs
fwiw, they make drafting stool aeron high-chairs. protip: buy one used,
because the new price is high even for HM.

~~~
eropple
You can also buy high bases for existing Aeron chairs. I use a knock-off,
though.

------
Al-Khwarizmi
10 minutes is a high bout duration for sedentarism? Wow. Where did they find
the group with low bout duration then? That would mean having meals standing
up, not driving or commuting 10 minutes or more, not watching even a 20-minute
TV program, etc.

~~~
makemonisonline
I've purchased a stationary bike that I'll go on basically any time that I
watch TV. I can't imagine just sitting down for 20 or 40 minutes to watch TV
anymore.

------
jimmytucson
There was a thread on here a couple weeks ago about how the good and bad parts
of technology go hand in hand. I think this is a perfect example. We went from
hunting and gathering to farming and domesticating, to mechanized farming and
manufacturing, to cubicle farming and so on...

We've made such great technological leaps that we've afforded ourselves hours
to sit on pillows and watch screens and use hydrogenated fat to stave off
hunger and boredom.

EDIT: Found the thread. It was actually about the Unabomber. Go figure:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15145849](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15145849)

------
Greenisus
Here's one thing I've done to increase exercise in my life: I keep a jump rope
in the trunk of my car, and I have a self-imposed rule that it costs 100 jumps
to get into the car. I drive a few times per day, so that adds up to many
small workouts!

~~~
kbenson
If that wouldn't result in me embarrassing myself in the
Target/Costco/supermarket/work parking lot multiple times per week, I would
actually be really interested in that approach.

~~~
krisroadruck
Why in the world do you care what some rando in a parking lot thinks about
you?

~~~
kbenson
Because I've been socially and culturally conditioned to, and no matter how
much I can rationally justify that what other people think doesn't matter
(which isn't entirely true), that doesn't mean I can emotionally accept that
without angst.

Put another way, it's not rational to ignore how you think you _will_ respond
to social pressure just because you think you _shouldn 't_ respond that way to
the pressure. The human mind is not so simple as that.

~~~
Greenisus
I totally understand. I know it's irrational to care what others think, but I
still do. That said, people are positive about it to me.

Think about it: if you were at Costco and saw some random person jumping rope
by a car, what would you think of that person? Would it be anything bad?

~~~
kbenson
Well, given how busy my Costco generally is, and how hard it is to maneuver
with the people pushing large carts through the parking lot, my thoughts would
be mixed. Initially it might be along the lines of "hmm, there are places less
likely to get in people's way to do that..." For a less busy parking lot, it
would probably be much more positive.

That said, I'm encouraged by the positive responses you say you've gotten.
Maybe I'll give this a try.

------
fragsworth
> Evaluation of their joint association showed that participants classified as
> high for both sedentary characteristics (high sedentary time [≥12.5 h/d] and
> high bout duration [≥10 min/bout]) had the greatest risk for death.

Is sleep included in the 12.5 hours per day?

Even if it isn't, I and everyone I know sits for at least that long each day.
Definitely for more than 10 minutes at a time. If we need to interrupt our
sitting bouts every 7.5 minutes in order to be healthy, I don't know how the
hell to do this.

~~~
ams6110
Well these are the same types of people who told us coffee was bad, saturated
fat was bad, low-fat/carbs-rich diets were good, etc. and have been found to
be wrong across the board.

I don't worry too much about how other busybodies tell me I should live my
life.

~~~
bitexploder
Come on. This is HN. No one is telling anyone how to live their life. Well,
people are but we all already know to ignore them right? We are trying to
parse all this data about stand/sit/walk-desk and figure out if there is
anything to it regarding overall mortality. If we can make some relatively
small adjustments to our lives and gain back years that static positions may
be taking from us why not? This is a quest for discovery about what the data
is telling us. Yes, some of the time the data leads us on a path that is not
the best (coffee/fats are bad?) -- it happens. Food and nutrition studies are
worse than these types of studies, I think. There are so many more
complicating factors compared to the broader strokes of these sort of
lifestyle studies.

------
kazinator
This shows a correlation between death, and reduced movement before death.
Pardon the obvious!

You would expect that many of the 340 subjects who died might have died,
rather than accidentally, due to some progressively deteriorating condition
which reduced their movement for a substantial period of time; perhaps years.

We don't know whether the onset of death produced less mobility or vice versa.

A relationship between sedentary lifestyle and mortality requires a very long
term study. Like following large number s of people from age 18 (if not
earlier) onward, and correlating levels of physical activity with life span.

------
touchofevil
I can't recommend varidesk.com or geekdesk.com enough. A varidesk is great if
your company already supplies you with a non-standing desk and a geekdesk is
excellent if you work from home and get to pick any desk you want. Be sure to
get a mat to stand on as well.

~~~
brightball
Big varidesk fan. Got one 2 months ago and haven't lowered it back to a
sitting position yet.

~~~
eropple
What good is buying it, then? You could've just bought a higher desk (mine
sits at 38") and saved three hundred bucks.

Standing desks are awesome for sure, but I don't get the adjustable trend when
draft chairs have been around forever.

~~~
brightball
My house had an office with a built in desk that made Varidesk a great option.
I've wanted to lower it a couple of times but opted to push through for
endurance sake.

~~~
eropple
Gotcha, that makes more sense. Having that much difference between the table
and the desk surface seems clunky though and multiple monitors feels pretty
weird. That's why I ended up just getting a table.

~~~
brightball
I got the dual monitor mount on the back too.

------
sridca
Using a standing desk leaning against the wall is surprisingly comfortable. I
wish someone made a product out of it. This kickstarter comes close, but the
project has no update since 2 years ago:
[https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1133385494/leanchair-
th...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1133385494/leanchair-the-portable-
reclining-standing-desk)

------
pconnelly15
Let's ignore the morality claim and look at this from a pure productivity and
intellectual standpoint. It has been proven, many times over, that being
active (moving) will make you think better, work better and basically
outperform those who do not. So if you need a reason to move around do it for
job performance.

------
FabHK
Would be interesting if the massive (potential) data trove from smartphones
and smart watches could somehow be brought to a similar analysis. Apple has
ResearchKit and CareKit, but not sure to which extent it's deployed and used
and analysed.

------
yodsanklai
"high sedentary time [≥12.5 h/d]"

Suppose I'm sedentary 13 hours a day, and that I walk / exercise for 2 hours,
does it make me sedentary with a high-mortality risk?

~~~
xexers
> “Even if you’re a gymgoer and think you’re safe on account of your excellent
> effort, you are not,” Levine said. “No one gets away from this stuff. …
> Excess sitting, this study seems to suggest, is a death sentence.”

[http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-
sitting-...](http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-sitting-
death-risk-20170911-story.html)

------
hfourm
Honestly, I feel like a study of this nature is backing up what we already
know to a degree.

But, we need to know more and I feel like a 4 year tracking period isn't
enough. For example, how do we know that people who were already the most
unhealthy coming into this study are also the most sedentary? How are they
handling these types of things.

~~~
icelancer
That's the danger of these types of studies. We all know what is healthy and
what isn't, but the methodology here is suspect at best and the analysis shows
weak conclusions. When headlines like the one posted here take root and people
expose the truth for what it is, it damages the credibility of research and
science in the minds of the masses, who are then more likely to ignore science
in general.

------
flerchin
Those about to die are more sedentary?

------
wgaggioli
Is there any evodence to suggest sedentary time is causal?

------
raviolo
Did they die because they were sedentary, or were they sedentary because they
were nearing end of life?

------
phatbyte
I baffled by how many tech guys/girls don't understand this. This is so
obvious it hurts. At my company's last year medical checkup the results were
just absurd, specially for men above 30 years old. Abdominal fat, high
cholesterol, diabetes, etc..Yet, nobody gives a damn, almost no one changed
their habits.

Guys, just get up and move. 30m-40m a day, you can fit this into your daily
schedule, don't come up with excuses. If you can fit your TV shows/gaming or
your accumulative time on social media, you can redirect that to your health
instead. And the output will have a major impact not just to your health, but
to your appearance and your confidence.

Eat healthy, exercise and go to bed on time. You don't have to go to a gym,
you can buy some gear and follow a plan from your home. Trust me, the change
can be quite dramatic.

Before work, or after work, pick a time, have a working out plan, track your
progress, create the habit. After two months it will feel like not taking a
shower if you skip it.

~~~
kitsunesoba
It might sound stupid but one of the things that's stood in the way of
establishing a workout routine for myself is lack of consistent private space
to do it in. The self consciousness and embarrassment is just too overbearing,
and between an open office at work and having a roommate at home, adequately
long contiguous blocks of privacy just aren't there. Gyms aren't really a
solution either, as not knowing those surrounding me doesn't help the issue at
all.

~~~
sliverstorm
Gyms are actually pretty great once you "get it". I totally understand self
consciousness around co-workers and friends, but I can completely guarantee
you that at the gym, nobody cares. Everyone is in their own world.

(Unless you're being a jerk, e.g. hogging equipment)

~~~
tasty_freeze
Holy crap, the number of people who do a set, then sit for five minutes
playing with their phone before doing another set is just horrifying. They
probably wonder why they aren't seeing a lot of benefit despite "working out"
for an hour three times a week.

~~~
sliverstorm
To be fair if you're working hard it can take 3-5 minutes for glycogen stores
to rebuild for the next hard set.

------
subru
Can a moderator please kindly delete this comment and the child

~~~
d3ad1ysp0rk
Your depression may be exacerbated by a lack of exercise/fitness.

~~~
subru
Please kindly remove these comments.

