
Windows 8.1 Preview - ing33k
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/preview
======
zmmmmm
It's interesting to see Microsoft unashamedly exercising what's left of their
monopoly power to force market share of unrelated products up. Defaulting
storage to SkyDrive, integrating Bing as a default search every time someone
does any kind of search, even tying the windows login itself to a microsoft
account, integrating Skype as a default installed app and giving _no opt out_
once you accept linking your Windows login. I notice they've made it extremely
difficult to set Google as your default search engine in IE (no default search
provider for it, can be quite hard to find in the search provider list).

It's the kind of thing that used to get them in a lot of trouble. I wonder if
they are past this or whether they will get rapped on the knuckles for this at
some point?

~~~
RexRollman
Is that really any worse than Google? At least with Windows, the Microsoft
account is optional; you can't even create a local ChromeOS account without a
Google account (which is a little bit more disturbing these days).

~~~
zmmmmm
The difference with Google is that millions of consumers and businesses are
simply forced to buy Windows because that is the only way to run software that
they need. There is pretty much nothing you can run on ChromeOS that you can't
run outside ChromeOS almost just as easily, including all the related Google
services if you want them. Thus people buying it are buying it on its own
merits and people using Google services related to it are using those on their
own merits.

I think the bigger case against Google on this front is with how they are
tying Google+ to Google Search. I am actually kind of surprised they have not
gotten more heat for it - if Facebook ever succumbs its market share to Google
I suspect an issue will be made of it. But then, even with search you have to
work very hard to make the case that people are "locked into it".

~~~
hobs
Android is the place where Google is doing this. Want to use Android without
Google? If you are anyone who is non-technical, you damn sure wont!

~~~
devcpp
If Windows was FOSS and we could "swap ROMs" and extract their stuff easily as
many of us do on Android, it would be much more acceptable. _Forcing_ your
users to use your other products when you have a monopoly is absolutely
outrageous.

As it is, I'm staying on Windows 7 (I have only one laptop and need Word,
otherwise I'd be using Linux instead of a Linux VM) and Paranaoid Android. No
_unwanted_ Micrsoft or Google products anywhere.

------
tiles
"SkyDrive is now the default location for saving documents. So you always have
your files wherever you go, even when you’re offline. And with the included
SkyDrive app, you can manage both local files and SkyDrive files in one
place."

This is a massive play for cloud storage. Will this be replacing "My
Documents" for the majority of casual Windows users?

~~~
veidr
And it looks like it will be a massive annoyance for the user, kind of like
how OS X now insists on showing me iCloud first every time I save a document,
despite the fact that I have never stored any document in iCloud and have no
intention of ever doing so.

~~~
nixme
Annoying, but `defaults write NSGlobalDomain NSDocumentSaveNewDocumentsToCloud
-bool false`

~~~
veidr
You are awesome, thank you. That worked great. :)

------
cpursley
This is actually quite an impressive update.

People like to dismiss MS, but they really understand iterative development.

~~~
embolism
Yeah windows phone smoothly iterated from its early beginnings to where it is
today.

Oh... wait.

~~~
madoublet
My guess is that WP9 will just be a tweaked version of Windows 9 without the
desktop. The WP8 updates have been annoyingly slow, and Microsoft does not
seem to be investing at all in apps (e.g. no Bing apps for WP8).

------
moot
Is this the first time Microsoft has branded an update as a dot X release
instead of a Service Pack?

I for one welcome this change and hope it signals a switch to more frequent
major OS updates.

~~~
lancewiggs
The branding did recall to mind Windows 3.1, which was the first usable
Windows.

The video was clearly not targeted at me - lots of jumping around the product
and distracting. It just seems sad versus the Apple approach of focussing on
end users doing things.

~~~
pedalpete
I agree it was a tad distracting, but I think your comparison with Apple is
slightly flawed.

In the Microsoft ad, you're supposed to be able to project yourself to be the
person doing these things. You're supposed to feel that 'you' are opening an
e-mail and looking at photos or "you" are searching for Marilyn Monroe, etc.
etc.

That is similar to the Apple ads, but the Apple ads do two things differently.
1) they are at a slower pace and with less frantic movement and music, so it
is easier to understand 2) apple ads will often have a voice over explaining
what is happening.

I don't like the Microsoft ad, but the ad does focus on an end user doing
things. Everything in that ad is a user doing things. I think they need to
refine their approach though, and make it about things people care about
doing.

------
sergiotapia
They still refuse to let me purchase a valid Windows 8 licenses here. I'm in
Bolivia.

Hell, I can purchase games on Steam, a VPS from a wide array of providers and
even make purchases on Amazon, but Microsoft doesn't take my money.

Just give me a cart, a checkout page that lets me pay with Paypal and we're
done MS. Just sell me the god damn serial key!

~~~
csomar
I'm in Tunisia, and my experience is that Microsoft products are available in
many retailers and you can pay with your local currency.

------
bobsy
I have been using Windows 8 since launch day and I have hardly touched the
Metro apps. The only thing in this update I see for me is the start button.
Something which I do not need.

The only update I want to see is a 'Shut Down' option when you click you name
on the start screen.

I think Windows 8 is alright but I am somewhat disappointed at how they
haven't even attempted to unify the metro / desktop experience. I thought this
was one of the main gripes people had. As someone without a touch screen, I
would use Metro apps far more if they opened in a container on the desktop.

~~~
shinratdr
[http://www.stardock.com/products/modernmix/](http://www.stardock.com/products/modernmix/)

------
pca
If your titlebar has a dark background color, text and the minimize/maximize
buttons are still unrecognizable. Is it so uncommon to use a dark color scheme
that no one who works on this cares to fix it?

~~~
tajddin
I've been wondering this exact thing. I generally use darker schemes as it's
easier on my eyes, but am forced to use a lighter color as a result of not
being able to read the window caption.

------
suby
Interesting. I heard rumors about them possibly adding something akin to a
start button back in 8.1, but there's no mention of that on this page.

~~~
MichaelGG
Microsoft is being intentionally obtuse here. I think their goal is to
knowingly introduce what people are not asking for, then when people complain
about that, MS can say "see, people complain, start button or no".

No one cares about the start button. They care about the start _menu_. In 8.1,
the button just does the same thing as hitting the winkey or clicking in the
corner in 8 -- you get completely launched from the desktop environment, and
go full-screen Metro-mode launcher.

While at first I thought it'd be the same (press winkey, type, enter), Windows
8/8.1 makes it far more cumbersome and is quite interrupting. Also, on Win8,
you need to select what you're searching for. Unlike 7, it doesn't
automatically search everything.

There is no way that MS actually thinks people want the _button_ , not the
menu.

~~~
renata
> Also, on Win8, you need to select what you're searching for. Unlike 7, it
> doesn't automatically search everything.

This is fixed on 8.1, it searches everything by default.

~~~
drivebyacct2
Ironically, it fails to find "Disk Cleanup" which is rather important if you
want to properly delete "Windows.old" after the upgrade. (BTW, it's
cleanmgr.exe if you want to run it).

------
sjmulder
It looks like Windows 8.1 will be solving many of the issues people have been
having with Windows 8.

On the other hand, it’s such a shame that they’ve made Modern UI a walled-off
platform. The PC’s biggest strength has always been how democratized the
platform was – anyone could build a PC, make software for it.

OS X is sometimes criticized of becoming a closed platform, with GateKeeper
and such, but the sad reality is that right now Windows 8 is the more
restrictive of the two. At least Apple lets you self-sign and bypass the App
Store vetting process (albeit for a fee), and you can easily disable
GateKeeper altogether.

It’s also clear that the Modern UI and desktop teams have been working in
complete isolation. Microsoft keep pushing out new frameworks, completely
ignoring what came before. Will WPF go the way of Windows Forms? What are
people who built XNA games supposed to do about Windows 8? What does modern
Windows desktop app even look like? Most of them spot ribbons, but there isn’t
even a standard component for that.

------
oth3r
The first thing I looked for on that page was an image showing the Start
button they've added back. I guess it's pretty telling that none of those
pictures include the desktop and everything is showcasing the tablet interface
now.

~~~
dragonwriter
The Windows Modern UI isn't intended as a "tablet interface"; its intended as
a form-factor agnostic new interface, the desktop is the legacy interface.

Now, I'm not saying I like the interface -- just that it isn't the "tablet
interface".

------
Maxious
For details, please download this 18 megabyte PDF file (don't mention XPS).

------
pgsandstrom
What surprices me the most is that Windows 8 is so darn expensive. The vanilla
version costs $120, that is the biggest hurdle for my family to upgrade.

~~~
endijs
I bought upgrade to Win8 Pro for 29EUR. Not that expensive. That was shortly
after Win8 was released but anyway - who wanted were able to upgrade cheap.

------
mtgx
So no more Service Packs? Now they're just calling them "new versions of
Windows" ?

~~~
untog
Yep, they're following the Apple model.

~~~
efdee
Except for the fact that Microsoft doesn't charge for the updates.

------
drivebyacct2
Since there are no IE11 threads on the front page, I'm going to hijack to
express some amazement with the IE team. DASH and Media Source extensions
(among the other, more well known HTML5 stuff added/bolstered)?! Awesome! Any
word of CU-RTC/WebRTC though?

~~~
signed0
There was one yesterday about IE11 getting WebGL support:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5942739](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5942739)

------
gordondevoe
".1" aka "SP1"

