
Are mutts like me welcome on HN? - fnazeeri
I grew up in Boring, Oregon (that's not a typo).  I'm an aerospace engineer by training (public school).  I worked on designing and building electric passenger vehicles back in the 90s (the first time they were cool) but then went to b-school (Ivy league) graduating in 1999 and have been a serial entrepreneur since as founder or CEO (i.e. the "business guy").<p>The first hacking I did was in 1982-ish on an Apple IIe.  The last true hacking I did was in the early 90s using FORTRAN77.  I wish I were more of a hacker now, but alas I don't have the patience.<p>Anyone can read and post to HN (and I have been doing both for about 6 months) but I'm curious who the core folks here are and what's the view of mutts like me?
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andyking
I'm probably about as "un-HN" as you can get.

I live in a small industrial northern English city, about 10,000 miles from
the buzz of Silicon Valley both physically and metaphorically.

I don't know how to code except a bit of really basic stuff, I don't have an
education from a top university, I don't own a laptop or an iPhone or even my
own home PC.

I don't work at a company that makes mashups out of widgets using the Google
and Twitter APIs then turns them into Facebook apps.

But I still work in a startup, even though it's not in the web field. We're a
new regional digital radio station on a platform called DAB. I love the
startup atmosphere; it's so much more rewarding to come in every day and get
stuck into building this thing up. It's not a web app, but it is a blank
canvas for ideas and development-- we really want to do things differently to
any radio station that's gone before and put to death the adage that "there
are no new ideas in radio".

Personally, I take an interest in the way in which radio's using new web
technologies like Twitter to have a two-way conversation with listeners and
turn them into participants. I'm interested in the social news model and how
it could be adapted for our medium. I want to give new life to a medium that's
condemned as dying on a regular basis. We're really not "big bad old media",
you know.

Some of the technical stuff on here goes way over my head, but the quality of
submissions and discourse is far better than other social-news sites I could
mention. I'd rather have a site that's a bit above my technical level than one
that's full of conjecture about Apple laptops or pictures of cats.

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pg
Welcomeness isn't defined for users so much as behavior. Or to put it another
way: you are what you do. Anyone's welcome who has interesting things to say.

~~~
fnazeeri
Fair point. The more precise question I wanted to ask is what behavior is
encouraged/desired on HN? Are there any published norms on, "things to say?"
So far as I can tell there are no published howto's, alas the ask.

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sdurkin
You're an aerospace engineer with an ivy league business degree who's so
concerned about being courteous that you posted this topic. If you're not
welcome here, I'm sure as hell not.

Welcome, you seem like a nice guy. Say what you think and I'm sure you'll be
fine. The closest thing to guidelines are at:
<http://ycombinator.com/hackernews.html>

To quote PG: "The focus of Hacker News is going to be anything that good
hackers would find interesting. That includes a lot more than hacking and
startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything
that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.

It may be easier to say what that doesn't include. It doesn't include most
stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some
interesting new phenomenon. It doesn't include videos of pratfalls or
disasters, or cute animal pictures. Basically, if they'd cover it on TV news,
it's off-topic."

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aristus
Once a community gets large & diverse enough that it starts wondering about
its own composition, it enters a phase in which it has to start to examine a
lot of unspoken conventions. Since Clay Shirky wrote about this phenomenon so
well, I propose we call this stage "Shirky Completeness".

As far as I'm concerned, you've built stuff and want to build more stuff;
you're polite and thoughtful. Enough for me. Welcome. :)

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sielskr
I'm a tech guy, and I think the site could use more guys like you.

~~~
jedc
I've been surprised at just how business-saavy the "tech guys" on this site
are!

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icey
It's probably a side effect of the fact that this was "Startup News" prior to
it being "Hacker News".

~~~
fallentimes
And a lot of founders/small business owners post here too. Most are technical,
but some are non-technical.

~~~
icey
Yeah, I think you're right on the money.

Whatever the mixture is, it's a good one. I've always thought YC was
impressive for it's ability to have spirited discussion without the constant
holy wars that tend to erupt when you get a lot of smart people in a room.

~~~
fallentimes
I always tell people the best part about Hacker News is you can witness people
changing their mind within a thread. How many places are like that?

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randomwalker
Who said hacking has to be software hacking?

The YC application even explicitly asks for evidence of non-computer hacking
abilities.

Your bio, and the fact that you enjoy posting here means that you have the
hacker spirit, in all likelihood. You're more than welcome.

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lsb
Your bio seems like a perfect reason to reconsider thinking things like "What
does this business guy think he is, some kind of rocket scientist?".

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pj
I've been lurking until today. I too am concerned about not upsetting an apple
cart. The rules today are pretty much the same as any other social situation.

Netiquette isn't so much different than etiquette. Treat people with respect,
which you do. Add something of value, which you do. Listen to and learn from
what others provide, which you are doing.

Remember, above all, this is a community (I just created an account today)
like all others and I too am wondering what to say and not say.

I think the very fact that you asked the question shows that you are
interested in this community remaining strong. That's what any community
needs.

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bprater
Don't have the patience?! That's the fun part -- slowly working through the
problems! Fighting the gods until you are victorious!

You should give it a whirl again, you might be surprised.

~~~
qqq
I beat the gods twice today! :D

~~~
ivanstojic
What are you planing to do after lunch?!

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HeyLaughingBoy
How are you a mutt? Think of yourself as multidimensional -- having knowledge
of doing more than web app software.

My undergrad is in Electrical Engineering. I designed industrial data
monitoring & control equipment for a few years, then started doing embedded
software. Got an MS in software engineering. Did more embedded, did some MFC
stuff, dabbled in cgi scripts and Zope for a while. Somewhere in there had a
small 2-person side business building temperature monitoring equipment for a
few years. Now working on movie camera motion control. I'm about as far from
Web 2.0 as you're going to get :-)

I like it here and I also hang out on Spolsky's Business of Software forum. In
both cases I get more out of the business discussion than the software
discussion.

I for one welcome someone with wider scope of experience who can bring
something new to the discussions.

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lallysingh
Being a hacker is more about self-determination than any institutional
credentials.

You build stuff, you can code, and you want to talk about tech stuff. I'm not
sure there's much else to a hacker's definition than that.

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rymngh
You honorably recognize your talents and achievements. But you still start a
topic asking your candidacy?

Then what label can you give me? I'm not an aerospace engineer, I'm not a
serial entrepreneur, and I'm sure as hell that I would never build an
electronic passenger car.

Everyone is welcome here. We humans are extraordinarily curious beings,
curiosity & willingness to explore is the main reason why we kept visiting
this site.

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DanielBMarkham
Sure. As long as you submit your version of our traditional song of "I'm a
lumberjack" on YouTube, wear the funny hat, and learn Lisp, you're as welcome
as anybody else. Oh yes, there's the monthly dues. You can just send them to
me and I'll hook you up.

Just kidding. I think the only requirement is to be interesting, but judging
by some of my posts, perhaps even that is not required.

Welcome aboard!

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mlLK
Don't be bashful; hacker mythology is more misunderstood than it has ever
been, which is what makes it so interesting. We are all part of the elephant
here and while many come and go the myth will remain ever-changing:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_Men_and_an_Elephant>

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adsyoung
I'm aerospace turned hacker myself. Just curious, are there any others about
in the same boat?

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khafra
I'm not, but two of my cousins are aerospace engineers, and hackers in the
inclusive sense. I think a venn diagram showing the essential qualities of a
really good engineer and a hacker would be nearly indistinguishable from a
slightly elliptical circle.

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jhancock
I prefer mutts ;) Too narrow a pedigree is not very interesting to me.

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fallentimes
I'm not a hacker and I've always felt very welcome here. As others have
suggested, definitely lurk around a bit to see what the norms are.

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jmtame
We're all painters.

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hardik
you are welcome enough to be on the front page :) so welcome! (though with
mere 29 points (or karma, or whatever we call it) I don't think I have the
'authority' to welcome you just yet :)

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davidw
Welcome! I grew up in Eugene, which was pretty boring too:-)

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michaelneale
Yes ! Do you startup, er, startups that involve hackers??

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fnazeeri
Is this a test? Are you one of them? ;-)

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michaelneale
oh no - I am nobody of consequence !

But I think you are welcome here. HN started out as startup news, so someone
with you interests would fit in.

