
AT&T Locks Apple SIM on Activation - calvin_c
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT6499?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US
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Someone1234
Doesn't this completely negate the point of "Apple SIM?" I thought the whole
purpose was to allow people to switch carriers simply and quickly.

They even sold it as something which would allow you to switch into different
inexpensive plans as and when you needed it. That was their damn sales pitch.

If you need to buy tons of $5 SIMs, and walk around with them to switch, then
the entire thing has absolutely no benefit and you should just get a result
SIM which might be free anyway.

~~~
Steko
Apple has a long roadmap to turn the carriers into dumb pipes. The original
iPad deal was the first step. This is the second. Just because ATT locks the
sim today doesn't mean Apple hasn't negotiated an end date to that. Just
because Verizon has their own SKU today doesn't mean Apple won't slowly put
the screws to them to bring them on board a universal model.

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thrownawaya
After 7 years in the telecommunications industry with the nations second
largest telco, I can say for certain that they are dumb, and so are their
pipes.

~~~
rational-future
Telcos CEOs and big shareholders are extremely arrogant, but not dumb. IMHO in
the US, the balance of power between telcos and phone manufacturers is still
in favour of the telcos. To have any chance Apple will have to bring back most
of their foreign profits (and that will cost a ton of taxes) and ally with
other vendors (Google, Samsung, etc.). So not likely at all.

~~~
josho
I would argue the senior staff may not be dumb, but much of their staff is
another story. For example, I was working closely with Verizon staff while
they were petitioning the FTC to allow them to raise 411 rates. Their argument
for the required rate increase was that they were loosing customers to things
like google 411 search, so they need to raise rates to keep their service
profitable.

How's that for logic? "Hmm, we now have competition for our product that is
better and cheaper, oh well we better just raise our rates." Meanwhile they
were very slow to make improvements to their product as a means of countering
competition.

~~~
rational-future
The logic is that they have already lost the knowledgeable, price sensitive
customers. Raising the rates would allow them to extract more value from the
rest, e.g. old people.

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kalleboo
Yeah... I think I'll stick to unlocked phones and swap out regular, 3GPP-
mandated standard SIM cards. I'll know exactly what I get, which isn't
regulated by some shady operator+manufacturer deals.

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0x0
"dedicates the Apple SIM", what a way to avoid writing "locks".

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chrisBob
_Lock_ would be confusing because consumers associate that with being carrier
locked. It is still an unlocked device, and the word choice helps make that
clear.

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craigching
... but you can buy a new SIM to switch carriers if you need to:

> If your Apple SIM becomes dedicated to a specific network and you want to
> choose from other carrier programs, you can purchase a new Apple SIM from an
> Apple Retail store.

Better than having to buy a new iPad.

~~~
kevinchau
iPads from the Apple Store are never carrier locked.

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Bud
Yes. This just highlights the fact that you NEVER, ever want to buy an iOS
device from a carrier's store. Always buy directly from Apple. Not just
because of this SIM lock issue, but also because Apple's return policy and the
way they handle problems very early in the life of a device is very different
if you bought it somewhere else versus having bought it from Apple directly.

~~~
craigching
Wait, so explain it to me. When I bought my last iPad, I could have sworn I
had to choose an AT&T model or a Verizon model. Or is this a new feature on
the iPad Air 2?

EDIT: From the link:

> right from your iPad Air 2 or iPad mini 3

So this is new for iPad Air 2 then it appears.

~~~
tzs
Right. Older cellular iPads supported either GSM or CDMA, so you had to choose
at purchase in the US whether it was for AT&T (GSM) or Verizon (CDMA). Newer
cellular iPads include both GSM and CDMA.

~~~
cloudwalking
The best part about this: iPad boxes never said which carrier it was locked
to. You had to look it up via serial number. Non-Apple sales people didn't
seem to understand this and happily sold me an AT&T iPad when I asked for a
Verizon iPad.

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snsr
They actually do, at least for the past couple of years. My past two iPad
purchases have been clearly marked "AT&T" right on the label.

~~~
cloudwalking
I bought my mom a Verizon iPad a couple of years ago. Unfortunately I was
actually sold an AT&T iPad. There was no indication either way on the box.

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higherpurpose
US carriers are so silly. People can easily use unlocked phones in Europe and
- this might shock them - the sky hasn't fallen! The usual duopolies are still
the same duopolies as they were a decade ago.

You're buying a phone - you should be a allowed to put a different SIM in it
and "cheat" on your network. It's not like you won't be paying them if you're
in the contract anyway. If the contract ends - then you're free to leave them
anyway. So why are they making such a big deal about SIM-locking?

~~~
kalleboo
> the sky hasn't fallen! The usual duopolies are still the same duopolies as
> they were a decade ago

Prices have definitely dropped though. Mobile telephony in Europe is usually
cheaper than in the US.

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jacquesm
Except when you leave your home country.

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billyhoffman
While there are certainly user benefits (like easier switching between
providers) that's not the primary point of the Apple SIM.

Think about SKUs and inventory.

On launch day this month, Apple had 2 phones, with 3 different storage sizes,
available in 3 different colors. Apple SIM is about not have to have another
multiple on top of all those combination about which network the phone works
on (AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile, etc).

Apple SIM lets them go from 42+ SKUS, to 12.

User choice is nice and Apple certainly cares about the user experience. But
Tim Cook made his bones at Apple as master of supply and distribution chains.
Apple SIM helps them, even if the carriers all balk on allowing users to
switch providers via software.

~~~
kalleboo
Why is it so hard for Americans to learn what a SIM card is? "The SIM card is
your phone number". My 85 year aunt knows what one is and how to swap it out.
Why do they have to be preinstalled? So Apple can shave a mm off the thickness
of the device?

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pivo
Maybe because most people here never ever change their SIM card. You buy a
phone and you're basically locked into your carrier until your contract
expires, then you buy a new phone because it's the only way to justify the
ridiculous monthly fees. If you venture overseas you often just put up with
the stupid-high rates your carrier will charge you because it's too much of a
pain or too complicated to call your carrier and get your phone unlocked.

I don't think saving mm's off the thickness is a factor at all because the SIM
is still replaceable. I think Apple thought it was a better user experience to
be able to choose their carrier this way. And of course now they don't have to
stock iPads with carrier-specific SIMs.

Yes, they could sell SIM-less iPads, but that would make for a poor buying
experience, at least for us SIM-shy 'merkins.

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mitchty
The other problem have been the cdma carriers have been and still are the
predominant cell carriers in the USA. That means most never used phones with
sims until recently.

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nsxwolf
Question: Why are they able to? Is the ability to lock some FCC regulation, or
did Apple leave this ability in because AT&T demanded it?

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thorntonbf
Why we as American consumers continue to tolerate behavior like this out of
our carriers is beyond me...

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danmanstx
what's the cost of a new apple SIM?

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moogleii
$5. Not much but not insignificant. I'd rather AT&T just not lock it.

Edit: I thought I had read $5, but now I can't find that source, so who knows.

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JTon
Another commenter in this thread is also saying $5. So it appears your memory
is serving you :) ... unless of course you read it from this thread, ha

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mbertrand
Why? Why does apple allow them to do this?

