
.mail app - tomazstolfa
http://dotmailapp.com/
======
astral303
Best of luck w/ the implementation. However, reading the concept, I am
unimpressed.

In Mail.app, I can already mark e-mails with different-colored flags, which
allows me to come up with my own "get back soon" or "get back later" type of a
system.

The assertion that e-mail hasn't changed since 1970's is false. Modern e-mail
clients manage it much better. Compare Mail.app, Outlook and GMail to PINE--
the difference is staggering. The true innovator in the e-mail space has been
GMail, which has brought things like autosave, concepts such as embracing the
fact that it is not truly productive to file every single e-mail into a
purposeful folder, embracing that tagging is better than folders. GMail also
really pushed the conversational view and presented it in a single-screen way
that was innovative (compare how long it took e-mail clients to catch up with
that... and no, "group by thread" did not compare).

I'm also very wary of anyone advertising "clean typography." People start
adding spacing and now I only end up previewing 2/3rds of what I could preview
in one screenful.

~~~
rmc
_really pushed the conversational view and presented it in a single-screen way
that was innovative (compare how long it took e-mail clients to catch up with
that... and no, "group by thread" did not compare)._

I love GMail's conversation view, but AFAIK, not really many other desktop
email clients have adopted it. Who else has it?

~~~
wonderzombie
Apple Mail has it. I think you can tell it whether you want to see newest-
first or the reverse, as well.

~~~
danneu
Actually, Mail.app's lack of conversation view was one of its definitive
dealbreakers for me.

In particular, it doesn't include you or your sent mail in the conversation
(<http://i.imgur.com/Atkcu.png>). It only lets you expand the email quotation
to let you dig through nested context (<http://i.imgur.com/1Zj2e.png>).

Compare this to gmail (<http://i.imgur.com/mLel3.png>) that actually handles
it as a conversation. It's one of the reasons I use Mailplane (thin wrapper
around gmail) instead of Mail.app.

~~~
taylorfausak
I too was frustrated by Mail.app's lack of a proper conversation view. Turns
out, there's a setting to show messages you sent. In the "Viewing" section of
Mail.app's preferences, enable "Include related messages".
<http://imgur.com/i5Eaq>

~~~
tamal
This seemingly minor preference is what makes Mail.app useable.

------
davidcollantes
From: <https://vanschneider.squarespace.com/mail-the-first-summary> \--
"Currently I'm developing a prototype and then hopefully move on to
Kickstarter. But there's no plan yet if it's going to be a WebApp, MacOS or
Windows app."

In other words, vaporware (so far).

~~~
untog
That summary was posted on July 18th, so it's not necessarily up to date.

~~~
trekkin
Yes, a lot could have changed in one week... really?

~~~
untog
Well, within a week someone can decide to turn a prototype into an actual
project. Thus, not necessarily vaporware.

------
jvm
Whoo boy does that site ever not work without javascript... Sort of ridiculous
since it's a static page advertising a desktop app, neither of which should
require javascript at all.

EDIT: Oh God, and hot pink highlighting does NOT complement their color
scheme. And for all its javascript fanciness, it doesn't handle resizing at
all. Sorry to be so negative, this site just pushes all my buttons.

~~~
dchuk
well it's 2012, the overwhelming majority of users have JS enabled

~~~
twelvechairs
You are right, but nowdays there is an (albeit small) trend in the opposite
direction (dont enable javascript) with privacy-conscious users using
noscript/scriptno and such.

~~~
lukifer
In which case, those users should be accustomed to half-broken sites and
creating exceptions where necessary, just as I am with Flashblock.

~~~
jvm
This site is not "half broken" without javascript, it just doesn't exist at
all. I'd understand that if it did a bunch of fancy js tricks, but it doesn't,
it doesn't even adjust the layout for small screens (which would be easy given
their design).

------
kyro
First thing I thought of when I read the heading Actionsteps was being able to
tailor actions specific to each email. For instance, you receive an email from
Twitter saying someone's following you, and you're given the options to either
"follow", "@reply", "ignore", etc, and similarly for Facebook. Receive a bill
from ATT and your next steps are "pay bill", "file as important", "put on to-
do."

You're essentially containing all of the work necessary to resolve the subject
of the email within the client itself. You could allow for app
plugins/extensions so that others could develop hooks into various services.

Other than that, it looks clean and simple. I'm eager to try it out when it's
launched.

~~~
mnicole
Is IFTTT too generic to do something like that?

~~~
kyro
I suppose it could handle some tasks that apply universally to one type of
email message from a given source, but not for most that involve highly
personalized/sensitive information – bank statements, scheduling appointments,
etc.

------
3JPLW
What is it? It took me quite a while (and a few web links) to discover that
it's a Mac email client.

Interesting how many new email clients are emerging this summer. I'm taking
note due to the likely abandonment of Sparrow. Also due to come out "this
summer" is Mail Pilot: <http://mail-pilot.com/>

~~~
masenf
From the video: "Our servers store metadata about your messages, but not the
messages themselves"

It's difficult for me to invest the time (and effort) required to use a
service like this, when that investment could easily just go away when the
service is pulled for whatever reason. Or, if their servers are down will I
have robust access to my mail client?

One of the nice things about old email is that it is portable. Metadata on 3rd
party servers seems to cast this positive aspect about email aside.

Some aspects of these new emerging services are novel, specifically the UI and
layout of features. As many have pointed out recently, similar functionality
has existed in mail clients for years. However, not every email user is aware
that their use of email could be made more productive just by utilizing the
tools already in their email environment. I would guess these mail client-
services are catering to that market -- the less technically inclined.
Consequently, these customers are less likely to know or care about the
implications of spreading vital work-related or important data across new and
potentially volatile services.

That said, I do support nice-looking and more usable email clients, just not
at the cost of dependence on a 3rd party service.

------
antr
I've just installed OS X Mountain Lion... and gone back to Apple's Mail (no
more Sparrow). I'm too tired of chasing another email/to-do client that might
get acq-hired, with no future support.

Having said that, the idea behind .mail app is elegant, well thought and a
step forward. Kudos.

~~~
tjohns
What do you mean no more Sparrow?

Last time I checked, it's still available for download. My understanding was
that it just isn't in active development anymore.

I use it as my primary mail client on my personal machine, and it does pretty
much everything I'd want as is.

~~~
nestlequ1k
I've used Sparrow every day for over a year.

It's got a great UI and I love it, but it's buggy as hell. Slow, sometimes
doesn't refresh, the DB grows to 10s of GBs.

As much as I like it, the fact that there's not going to be any more updates
has gotten me to switch off it.

Software is fluid, not static. Any software that is not being updated, I
believe any rational user should move on to ones that are.

------
calinet6
I'd like to be able to read my e-mail address while typing it please...

    
    
        $("input#email").css("color", "#333");
    

Otherwise, fantastic. Thanks. Ideally you just buy Sparrow and add the 2
features it was missing. We can only hope.

------
jmduke
It's good to see some actual followthrough on the initial concept.

I honestly like the proposed Attachments and Notifications features (I'm also
not a mail client aficionado, so I don't know if these are particularly
groundbreaking), but the Actionsteps thing sounds clumsy to me. If my problem
is that I don't have enough time to parse, read, and respond to all of my
email, I don't understand how adding another step will alleviate that.

~~~
chipotle_coyote
_I don't know if these are particularly groundbreaking_

Other than the "Actionsteps," a lot of what's in this proposed client sounds a
lot like features in Postbox. I can switch to a "show me all attachments"
view, for instance, and Postbox works very well with a lot of GMail-specific
features (labels, priority, etc.).

------
chimeracoder
> "When the first email was sent in the early 1970's there was no big
> difference to the email we know today." - And this is the problem.

Actually, this is the greatest advantage of email: its extreme portability
across platforms and clients.

We can reinvent the way we interact with it, but we don't need to reinvent the
technology itself. This is an immensely important distinction.

------
joshaidan
"Actionsteps solves the flagging problem, where every email you know that you
need to respond to is of equal importance."

Wouldn't it be interesting if the sender of an email could specify what
Actionsteps are required for a given email? i.e. The sender specifies that an
email should be: read by the receiver, replied to by the receiver, forwarded
to a specific department, complete a specific task, etc.

~~~
Spooky23
Sounds like it's time to party like it's 1992 with Lotus Notes.

------
bigdubs
A bone to pick with the name: Leading "." in filenames usually causes the
Finder (and ls) to omit the files in listings.

Maybe not a great look for an email app.

------
jameswyse
For anyone who is confused, this is the implementation of a concept which was
posted 2 weeks ago.

It's looking really good, can't wait to try it!

Link to concept post: <http://www.vanschneider.com/work/mail/> And original HN
post: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4223869>

------
almost
Looks interesting, there's definitely stuff that can be done to make email
better. It'll be interesting to see how this works out.

If you're interested in this and you're a GMail user you might also be
interested in Active Inbox[1] which adds some useful features on top of Gmail.
It lets you mark emails GTD style as "Action" (requires an action), "Waiting"
(waiting on someone else) or "SomeDay" (there's an action to take, but you
might not do it now). It also has an easy way to sort emails by project and
some other useful features.

Disclaimer: I met Andy of Active Inbox recently and ended up doing a few days
work on the product. But I was a happy (and paying) user of Active Inbox
before that!

[1]: <https://www.activeinboxhq.com/>

------
Iaks
Just a heads up, if the creator is reading here, your page loads 0 content
with javascript blocked. A minimal plea for javascript unblocking might gain
you extra traffic - I know I didn't care enough to add you to my whitelist,
since I had NOTHING to go on.

~~~
sp332
You intentionally disabled a chunk of your web browser, and are now
complaining that some websites don't look right?

~~~
lukeholder
i agree. people that disable javascript these days are just plain weird.

------
axx
Pretty nice timing: \- Sparrow announces that they've been acquired by Google
on the 20th \- on the 23th <http://dotmailapp.com/> gets created (as far as i
can see it from the DNS record)

------
raikia
I'm confused. Is this only for Mac (it looks like it from the screenshots)? I
find it a terrible business move to have a start-up release their product only
for a platform that is much less than 10% of the world's personal computing
marketshare.

It looks nice, but I think you have shot yourself in the foot for trying to
release a Mac app first. Windows doesn't have any good email application that
is still developed anymore. Pretty much the choices are Outlook and
Thunderbird (the latter of which was just announced would have no more feature
developing). People are looking for the next email client to flock to...

------
state
What I think is most interesting about this is how successfully implemented
this PR campaign is. I think some of the criticism of the app is warranted:
but we have nothing concrete to look at, and no real information about how the
app will be developed. It seems likely to be a case of someone believing too
much in the power of 'design' while overlooking the importance of
'implementation'. If I could somehow be convinced that these two things were
conceived of holistically by the creator I'd be much more interested.

I do, however, really applaude the precision with which this project has
appealed to people's desires.

------
5h
With the gmail web interface I already have all of these features,

actionsteps are stars in gmail, i use yellow & red bang, and red star .. just
press s to rotate,

attachments have never been an issue but maybe thats just me, searching for
"from:a@b has:att<down><tab>" is quite quick enough

and using filters & labels gives me the notification functionality, e.g.
messages from facebook get a label, i can see facebook (3) or whatever on the
left, but it will work for any type of email i wish.

"meh" is my main reaction to this, unless it has something new and is as
transparent to synchronisation across devices as gmail i won't be interested

------
glennos
This looks nice, but doesn't strike me as a revolution.

What I would love to see is a mail client that does away with the antiquated
inbox/sent paradigm. It would be replaced by active/archived. If I send an
email, it would appear in my active list until the expected outcome is
achieved (eg. a reply). At that point I archive it. Sent and received would
sit in the same view (like Facebook, etc), why they don't already on clients
is beyond me. I shouldnt have to manage 2 views to ensure I've acted on
received and others have acted on my sent.

------
ChronoGawd
Seem very similar to Mail Pilot (www.mail-pilot.com), although Mail Pilot
seems that it will still be a monthly paid service, as .Mail app doesn't (at
least I couldn't find if it is).

Which is a big deal for me. As for .Mail seems like you pay for the app such
as Sparrow (which it looks similar too) and not have to pay monthly for it.

I plan on buying it if it comes out as it shows and does what it does.

Anyone know when it is coming out? And if it will have a monthly cost?

~~~
bman101
Looks like Mail Pilot will have apps for Mac, Windows, iOS, and Android.

~~~
ChronoGawd
I am in the beta and it looks pretty heavily Java. Which I personally don't
like as much as Sparrow being a native app in all OS's... I feel like the
Desktop apps are going to be Adobe Air, or some web Java app as it is now.

------
jenius
Perfect timing on this, right after the demise of sparrow. I was starting to
really get down on the idea of having no really nice desktop mail client for
OSX.

Really looking forward to checking out this app, and I really hope Tobias is
either secretly an incredible osx programmer or is going to get one on board
to help, because it would be a shame to see a beautifully designed interface
like this be brought down by poor implementation.

------
winter_blue
It would be great if instead of having to build a new app ground up every time
we want to add a few features, if we could simply add those features to the
existing application.

This would be a lot easier if that application was open source, but having a
modular architecture and malleable/extensible design would be more important.

Does anyone have thoughts on application that are designed such that features
can be added to it easily?

~~~
mike-cardwell
Thunderbird uses similar technology for it's addons as Firefox and is just as
extensible. If you can write JavaScript, you should be able to figure out how
to extend Thunderbird. The entire calendar and pgp functionality comes from
addons.

------
mehulkar
As long as you don't sell your product to Google and stop development as soon
as I get used to it and start liking it.

------
adhipg
Isn't there too much emphasis on 'click' on the page? The interface gives a
feeling that it not benefit power users.

I usually never leave my keyboard when reading/writing emails. Keyboard
shortcuts on GMail (and Sparrow) have been the most important feature for me
to get my mail done faster.

------
kwamenum86
Smells like an acquisition in a year or so (and I mean that as a compliment).
Congrats in advance.

------
dsirijus
I didn't think concept was flexible enough when it originally ran here on HN
frontpage.

------
shocks
Any plans for cross-platform support or is this yet another Apple only affair?

------
tastive
Assuming one of the creators reads this: "A clean and Actionsteps."

I would like better attachment management than I've got now, so I'll probably
take a peek. Thanks.

------
modarts
Issue in Chrome [v 20.0.1132.47 m]

Focusing in the email textbox, followed by tabbing out causes the box to shift
down (pretty sure that's not intentional)

------
ricardobeat
Now is the perfect time to re-create Sparrow.

------
stefanve
Would love to have a ubuntu version of this. Will pay up to 30$. Or any other
mail client

------
dysoco
".Mail is coming to your dock" Well... I supposed it won't come out for Linux.

------
brianbreslin
Am I the only one who worries about the branding of this?

------
joamag
Looking awesome

------
89a
Someone wants to work at Google/Facebook then.

But on a more serious note, it doesn't look like a cocoa app to me so I'm not
that keen on it. Too much custom UI and looks more at home on Windows 8

~~~
aklofas
Really? Cocoa and Objective-C are ungodly messes that best be avoided, me
thinks.

