
Facebook management moves around but people don’t leave - SREinSF
https://www.recode.net/2018/5/22/17340694/facebook-hiring-executive-management-team-mark-zuckerberg
======
rm999
I know a few earlyish employees at Facebook, and they are easily the happiest
people I've met at any company. In some respects this can be credited to
joining the right company at the right time: they got in early at a company
that makes insane amounts of money and has a huge influence on the world. But
this seems to be the icing on the cake to them. Everyone I know at Facebook
who got in before 2010 credits Mark Zuckerberg ("Zuck", ugh). They call him a
friend and say he never wavers in his passion or mission. They seriously look
up to the guy and won't work anywhere else, even though they have built up
generational wealth.

Honestly I don't care much for Facebook's methods and I think they are a net
negative on the world, but I still really look up to Mark Zuckerberg as a
leader.

~~~
aaron-lebo
Just interested, what's impressive about Zuck as a leader?

Money will make people do crazy things. I think he's shown time and time again
in his handling of situations that he's been pretty ineffective and his
primary strategy is to say "we're sorry we have to do better". It's lots of
excuses, that's not good leadership material in my book.

There's also crazy stories like the time he gave a speech proclaiming
"Carthago delenda est", casting Facebook as Rome and Google as Carthage. Then
everyone went into lockdown over the weekend so they could dig through Google+
and copy whatever they could. According to the same book (Chaos Monkeys),
Zuck's inner circle is basically a bunch of sycophants (aka Friend of Zuck).
It also repeatedly refers to Facebook as a cult. Why do you think they had
major failures like the most recent one? Sycophancy is not a working strategy.

Surely he's made some great choices (Instagram acquisition), but how can you
begin to separate his actual ability with the power/wealth he can bestow on
anyone, biasing their view of him? The guy could fail 1,000 times over at this
point and still be a billionaire.

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/business/facebo...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/business/facebook-
zuckerberg-apologies/?utm_term=.e09f48b4f2dd)

[https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jun/16/facebook-...](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jun/16/facebook-
moderators-identity-exposed-terrorist-groups)

The stuff that happens there is kind of comical. Would effective leaders
really run an org like that?

~~~
dv_dt
> his primary strategy is to say "we're sorry we have to do better". It's lots
> of excuses, that's not good leadership material in my book.

Actually, to me, that is incredibly powerful. I can't really evaluate
Zuckerberg's effectiveness, but you can't fix problems if you can't admit
fault, and many in leadership positions never admit fault.

~~~
aaron-lebo
It's only powerful if you actually change. Otherwise you're just using one of
the classic tricks of manipulators.

"I'm sorry, it won't happen this time" is what abusive relationships are made
of.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4zd7X98eOs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4zd7X98eOs)

Do people find this sincere? It seems fake/manipulative and too convenient.
Facebook has been doing this for a decade+.

~~~
ergomarky
It's still powerful if it impacts people. Manipulation, is still powerful if
it works.

Which is where you might be confused, you can be incredibly insincere and
abusive (seems common in business) but still a great leader (great in this
context not meaning just), as they've shown they can a) get out of sticky
situations b) continue making money and c) have a relatively happy team. So in
this scenario what would actually back up your argument would be
demonstrations of the apologies having zero impact, the team hating the
apologies and thus being less productive, and/or a general loss of revenue.

~~~
aaron-lebo
Very well said.

------
xivzgrev
I recently interviewed there, and I definitely got this sense. Everyone in
management had been there at least 3 years, and the directors / VPs had been
there 8+. When I asked one person where people go if they leave Facebook, he
didn't answer. He just said Facebook works hard to retain employees, and that
if he ever felt bored he would leave. The campus is idyllic, designed
apparently by the same person who designed Disneyland. Free food, arcades, ice
cream, movies, etc. I think they try very hard to make you comfortable (no
"stick") and keep presenting you with opportunities to have more impact
("carrot"). To the point where people don't appear to think as much about the
bigger picture and who they want to be / where they want to go. I often heard
that phrase "as long as I'm challenged and having impact, I'll stay here".

~~~
gowld
[https://www.quora.com/What-startups-have-been-launched-by-
ex...](https://www.quora.com/What-startups-have-been-launched-by-ex-Facebook-
employees)

[https://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/03/technology/03facebook.htm...](https://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/03/technology/03facebook.html)

"But a number of Facebook’s early employees are giving up their stable
jobs..."

[http://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-former-employees-
are...](http://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-former-employees-are-funding-
the-next-generation-of-startups-2012-4)

------
adamnemecek
“There are more could-be CEOs at Facebook than any other company”.

This is such a meaningless non-statement.

“There are more could-be Picasso’s at Facebook than any other company”. Wow.
#inspired. If only they picked up the brush.

Be less concerned about being a CEO and more concerned about creating things
of value.

~~~
cjhopman
> Be less concerned about being a CEO and more concerned about creating things
> of value.

Isn't that basically how the article is representing these people? That they
don't care about being CEO and just want to be where they can create things of
the most value?

------
jonbarker
"Impact" is the new buzzword of the creative class, aka the knowledge worker.
Also, it might be noted, someone else cleans the toilets, that comment from
the social good person was just argument by example, and a strange example
coming from the person whose title kind of most closely resembles advocating
for working people. Because the people who actually clean their toilets don't
likely talk much about 'impact'. For folks who are worried about groupthink
and feedback loops at FB look no further than comments like these.

------
WisNorCan
Snap, Twitter and Uber have all had unprecedented amount of turmoil in the
executive ranks of the company. Snap and Twitter's stock are both trading
below IPO. Uber is not public yet.

It makes me wonder about the deeper causality. Do execs stay because of the
mission and that causes stock appreciation? Or do execs stick around because
of stock appreciation and then explain it through the mission?

------
Cthulhu_
Call me cynical, but how many companies could they become a CEO where they
would own more / more valuable stock and/or earn more from said stock?

~~~
vonmoltke
Maybe I am atypical, but I would take a significant discount to run a company.
I value freedom, authority, and responsibility more than money.

~~~
s73v3r_
But money is the quickest way to get those things.

~~~
marssaxman
That has been the opposite of my experience. There's a sweet spot around
$90-$110k where life is pretty good; below that, financial constraints are
distracting, while above it, the sacrifices you have to make in terms of
freedom, responsibility, etc. will rapidly drain away whatever satisfaction
you might have been able to buy with the extra money.

~~~
autotune
I hope you’re not talking about living in SV or SF with those numbers.
Anything less than $120K salary out here usually means roommates, which,
unless you are very good at figuring out good ones from bad ones, can lead to
severe work performance issues due to lack of sleep from incompatible habits
and schedules.

~~~
marssaxman
Seattle, actually. It's not so much the specific numbers I was talking about -
that's just the range which works for me - but the idea that more money can be
less valuable, because the time and energy cost of acquiring the money
diminishes your ability to make use of it.

I have typically chosen to live with housemates regardless of salary, because
otherwise home just feels sort of empty and dead, and it's a lot of work
trying to organize all one's own social hosting single-handed.

------
johnny313
> “When we learned our platform was abused and interfered with, that was super
> shocking to all of us,” said Chief Privacy Officer Erin Egan in a recent
> interview with Recode. “[I was] shocked that we were abused. Angry that our
> platform was abused, manipulated.”

Really? I am genuinely confused about how this would come as a surprise.

~~~
gowld
[https://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/11/30/salary/](https://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/11/30/salary/)

"It Is Difficult to Get a Man to Understand Something When His Salary Depends
Upon His Not Understanding It"

Nowadays, s/Man/Person/. Women of course have equal right to be hypocrites.

------
davidhyde
If money is no longer a driving force and FB is a happy place to work at then
power / influence / impact is what is left. Perhaps the execs simply believe
that they will have more of this by remaining than starting a new company.
Power can be a good or bad thing depending on perspective.

------
xkjkls
I feel like they missed a Hotel California reference.

------
aje403
TBH it does make sense that the "VP of Social Good" isn't going anywhere

~~~
aje403
No but seriously, who else wants a VP of Social Good trophy

------
shubidubi
so the message for new hires is: don't even try, you are not part of the old-
friends-cloed-group

~~~
ozim
Your comment reads like you expect software dev or other entry level employee
nagging he does not have a shot at C suite position right after joining.

You know that how life works, you hire people who you trust and you trust
friends, colleagues you worked for couple years.

Sometimes you do not have option but bring in C level employee from outside,
but that is huge thing. Probably that person will also be from network of
biggest share holders, not person from the street.

------
paulsutter
Sheryl Sandberg should run for President in 2020, not take a CEO role

~~~
908087
If the democrats run Zuckerberg, Sandberg, or Eric Schmidt, they'll once again
be losing my vote. I don't even want to imagine what the future would look
like under an administration run by someone from the surveillance capitalism
world.

~~~
paulsutter
Mark and others designed the total free for all that is Facebook data policy,
I wouldn’t vote for him or (especially) Schmidt, who loves surveillance. Yes
I’d want to hear what she has to say about that.

~~~
908087
Schmidt loves surveillance, and openly idolizes Henry Kissinger. He's probably
the most terrifying possibility of the three people I mentioned.

