
Steam Controller - cocoflunchy
http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamController/
======
paulgerhardt
I got to hold one of these a few months ago. It's solid. The ergonomics are
there. The same designer[1] was previously at {one of the other three very
large gaming console manufacturers} and knows a thing or two about
controllers. My understanding is it will be significantly more accurate than
traditional joysticks and competitive with a mouse (with a mouse you have a
single 'large' plane of motion, with this, you have two smaller independent
planes for each thumb). For FPS's it will really shine, but keep in mind that
Valve also makes DOTA2 so I'm sure they're more than aware of the need to make
this work across genres.

For Valve to bring PC gaming to your TV/Couch, they really needed to nail the
interface. I imagine they have spent many iterations on the problem, and I am
very excited to see the fruits of their labor.

[1] Full disclosure, by some odd coincidence she happens to be my sister and
also did the industrial design for Lockitron so I am wayy biased here.

~~~
anonymous
I don't see how my right thumb could be as precise as moving the mouse, which
I do with all 5 of my fingers (for tiny movements) or from my shoulder (for
larger movements). If thumb touchpads were good for FPS games, how come nobody
is playing them with their thumb on their laptop's touchpad? Maybe I'm just
old, but I don't see myself ever being able to use this.

~~~
hayksaakian
Long time users of trackball mice will disagree with you

[http://mobile.logitech.com/en-us/mice-
pointers/trackballs](http://mobile.logitech.com/en-us/mice-
pointers/trackballs)

~~~
jjkmk
Using Counter Strike as the flag ship FPS for Valve there currently aren't any
professional players using a trackball:
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AkghPvIh7ZVwdGZ...](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AkghPvIh7ZVwdGZ3WXE0dDlTdk5rT1ZKZm91VXVzREE&output=html)

~~~
gcb0
As a trackball heavy user (i use both thumb and index ones, with both hands) I
avoid playing FPS without a mouse!

the thumbs trackball is more precise. But still not good. A good and cheap
microsoft mouse is always with me when i'm playing FPSs.

Also, even if the control wasn't an issue, no trackball has more than 300DPI.
EVER. The minimum for mouses is 400. I don't know why that is. But even the
overly expensive Kensington ones are crappy even to click on a 10x10 button on
regular usage, let alone to headshot in a FPS.

~~~
phaus
I wholeheartedly agree that trackballs suck for FPS games, but most pro FPS
players advocate keeping the mouse at a fairly low DPI, so that deficiency
isn't really the problem.

I have trouble believing that any device that relies on thumb-only input is
going to be anywhere near as good as a mouse, but I hope I'm proven wrong.

~~~
jamesgeck0
Trackballs really aren't _that_ terrible for precision in FPS. Not pro level,
but heckuva lot better than the joystick control consoles currently use. I
found I had a harder time in StarCraft than I did in UT2K4, but both were
quite playable.

I used a Logitech Trackman for seven years, and the biggest issue was that the
force required to move the ball around wasn't constant; it would vary
depending on how gunked up the little rollers inside had gotten. I had to
clean mine out every day to keep it smooth.

~~~
phaus
If a person prefers using a trackball, that's great, but when the same tools
used by the pros costs about $50, there isn't really any other reason to use
anything else.

------
cheald
I'm actually pretty optimistic about this. It's a big divergence from current
couch input schemes, and the open nature of it might mean that it'll be
improved for ergonomics and whatnot. It's got some interesting promise.

Best of all, worst case, I can fall back to my trusty 360 controllers and use
those without a hitch, so even if this is a disaster, it doesn't sink the
platform (as can be the case with other platforms)

~~~
BrianEatWorld
I would say I am optimistic as well because, having been a dedicated "Big
Picture" user for the past few months, it is clear Valve has put a lot of
thought into this transition. However, what bothered me about the controller
is that it doesn't seem to actually be that different.

I don't see how this markedly improves over current controllers and their
integration. The key genres for which the current controllers don't work, such
as RTS, don't seem to be that much better off with this solution. Maybe its
just a lack of imagination on my part, but I will have to see more to be
convinced.

~~~
blktiger
It sounds to me like you would be able to use the trackpad regions as either
"joysticks" or "trackpads" which means for an RTS game you would be no worse
off than using a trackpad over a mouse. Other games might be better using them
as joysticks where the input re-centers if you lift up from the control
surface. Seems like a pretty big improvement over traditional controllers
without any significant downsides.

~~~
hackula1
> which means for an RTS game you would be no worse off than using a trackpad
> over a mouse.

Just about anyone who plays RTSs would agree that trackpads are completely
unacceptable for input. For a game like SC2, you might as well not even play,
because you would be lose so badly at against anyone at a similar skill level.

~~~
Pxtl
I figure they're trying to be optimistc about it... it might not measure up to
a mouse, of course, but either way it's a huge improvement. This device will
get you from "this is completely unplayable" to "hey I can get through the
single-player campaign and maybe do some co-op comp-stomping with my buds"

~~~
gknoy
Exactly. They could even allow an option for only matching you with people
with similar control configs for some games.

------
Arjuna
_" Steam gamers, who are used to the input associated with PCs, will
appreciate that the Steam Controller's resolution approaches that of a desktop
mouse."_

[...]

 _" The Steam Controller is built around a new generation of super-precise
haptic feedback, employing dual linear resonant actuators. These small,
strong, weighted electro-magnets are attached to each of the dual trackpads."_

Wow.

It sounds as though they have managed to combine mouse-like precision with the
simulated, tactile feel of a physical, analog stick. I suspect that there will
be user-defined settings, so that you can set the precision of the tracking,
allowing you to achieve the perfect "free look" (a.k.a. mouse look) and
standard character movement, based on how much pressure you tend to personally
(and independently) apply to each surface.

That is _very_ compelling.

~~~
joenathan
How would one play something like Street Fighter with this controller, the
button placement seems like it wouldn't allow for a good experience with
fighters or even platformers.

~~~
christoph
I'm not entirely sure it's been designed with games like that in mind. I
imagine the expectation is you use another pad (e.g Xbox controller) for a
game like Street Fighter - or in that case, ideally an arcade stick.

~~~
shmoogin
That is not true, it's designed for you to be able to modify the controls.

~~~
slantyyz
Just because you can modify the controls doesn't mean it's a good controller
for all use cases.

For example, it would be very difficult to do an ultra move in Street Fighter
IV on one of these pads -- i.e., quarter-circle-forward x 2 (LP + MP + HP). A
standard d-pad with tactile buttons is much more precise.

~~~
CatMtKing
How about mapping the triggers to LP/MP/HP and what you would normally have on
the triggers to the right trackpad?

~~~
slantyyz
Might work for some people, but I'm personally used to using a fighting
gamepad that has six face buttons in the standard 'Capcom' orientation.

People who learned Capcom fighting games on normal pads are usually OK with
triggers, but I learned on a stick, so using the triggers goes against my
muscle memory as I still use a stick regularly as well. My fighting pad,
however, is much more portable than my stick.

------
breckinloggins
I'm skeptical that the trackpads will provide the same precision feel that a
good analog stick can do, even with the haptics.

But I'm _not_ going to count it out. I'll reserve all judgement until I get to
try it. And that's the only real sticking point for me on this announcement;
everything else about this controller I love.

~~~
eterm
Laptops all moved from nipples to trackpads a long time ago, surely if analog
sticks could provide higher resolution then that wouldn't have happened, or
there would have been a move back?

~~~
amalcon
Not _all_. Lenovo still provides eraser nub-style pointers on many models. I
personally find them to be more accurate at high speeds than a touchpad.

I actually have no idea how people can use touchpads. You need a huge one to
be able to go corner-to-corner in one swipe and still have reasonable
accuracy.

~~~
Osiris
I hate touchpads. I use an external mouse with my Macbook. I have a Dell D830
with the nub pointer and it was so much easier to use, especially considering
that you don't have to remove your hands from the keyboard and your finger
doesn't need to cross 3 inches of space to move across the screen.

~~~
NoodleIncident
I've always been confused by this argument. I can reach my trackpad with my
right thumb without moving any of my other fingers off of the home row. Is
this an unusual amount of flexibility?

~~~
efraim
I don't think most people use trackpads with their thumbs.

~~~
StevenRayOrr
This is one of those use cases that I'd be interested in seeing some research
on. Personally, it depends a great deal on what I am doing, but I often use my
thumbs to do minor navigations when within a document. Particularly because I
have some RSI issues and using my thumb seems to less of an aggravation.
Milage, I'm sure, varies, but I suspect that there is a subset of folks that
at least use their thumbs a bit.

------
redthrowaway
The bigger story for me is that Valve has managed to once again troll its fans
with a "3" announcement. This is starting to have flavours of Stockholm
Syndrome.

~~~
Demeno
In their defense, while having 3 things to announce, they did "number" them
"O", "[O ]" and "O+O", none of which look like a 3...

~~~
redthrowaway
Nothing to defend; I think it's hilarious. Although I do think it would make
sense to announce HL3 for the Steam Machine on launch day.

~~~
ZoFreX
If they wanted a launch title that would drag in the biggest market, I reckon
Left 4 Dead 3 or Portal 3 would pull in more people (both had large mass media
marketing campaigns and are more recent). Or hey, all three ;)

------
Pxtl
... HN ate my post, I think.

I am super-excited for this. Finally a way to bring FPS (without aim-assist)
and RTS games into the living room. I don't even care about the OS and the box
itself, I crave this device. Even if it doesn't measure up to a mouse, it will
still be a massive improvement over the traditional thumbstick for pointing-
device-oriented games.

My only disappointment is that I wish they'd added a scrollwheel to the right
shoulder. Then we'd have a full mouse control-set in your right hand. The
scrollwheel is nice for zooming and panning in RTS games.

~~~
jpadkins
They could make the trackpads modal (without changing the hw). So you could
hold down left bumper and track left to right (or up/down) to have fine
grained control of zoom.

Only drawback of this is you couldn't control zoom and view at the same time
(which I guess FPS pro's do, but mere mortals like me don't).

~~~
Pxtl
Yup. Especially since I just discovered on closer reading that they've got a
hidden 3rd shoulder-button-set on the back. They could easily make "R3+Drag"
as scroll.

------
mortenjorck
I've been waiting years for someone to build a controller like this.

Somehow, I never actually imagined two trackpads – my concept had always been
a D-pad on the left and a trackpad on the right, mimicking the traditional
mouse-and-keyboard setup of the PC first-person shooter, but this makes far
more sense and allows for much more flexible repurposing of controls to
different games (as well as letting left-handed gamers flip their controls).

This is, at last, the controller for FPS games, and more importantly, for the
next generation of non-shooter first-person games. It's amazing to see the
horrified backlash in the comments sections on gaming sites right now: People
just don't get that this isn't for the button-heavy games they already play;
it enables new interactions with new kinds of environment-based experiences.

I wasn't particularly interested in any of Valve's announcements earlier this
week, but they certainly have my attention now.

------
shurcooL

        > The Steam Community can use the configuration tool to create and share bindings
        > for their favorite games. Players can choose from a list of the most popular
        > configurations.
    

Finally, some real innovation for the "default controls" experience in games
after 10+ years. Very nice. Instead of hard-coded controls that the devs put
in, you'll start with a community-upvoted scheme that can evolve and get
better over time.

------
pak
I've played some FPS games with a trackpad for lack of having a mouse
available, and on a larger, higher precision one (e.g., Macbook size) it was
not a bad experience at all. You can move a finger a lot faster than a whole
arm. Reflex high-res motion at the pro Counter-Strike level isn't likely, but
for the casual gamer, trackpad FPS control absolutely seemed plausible. So I
believe this kind of input will work for many games that need pointing, and I
also believe it will solidly outpace analog sticks for FPS games.

The Halo two-analog-stick model that has taken over the genre was always
awkward and imprecise compared to keyboard/mouse (probably most of the skill
in Halo was simply getting used to the stick dead zones and the
acceleration/deceleration of the look field). I will be happy to see it fade
away.

~~~
jlgreco
> _You can move a finger a lot faster than a whole arm._

If you're moving your arm to move your mouse, there is probably something
wrong with your mouse.

~~~
kgermino
_If you 're moving your arm to move your mouse_

IIRC I've always been old that I _should_ move my whole arm with the mouse.
The idea being that it's a small movement for your elbow/shoulder but a much
larger movement for you wrist so you can avoid wrist injuries by moving your
whole arm.

~~~
jlgreco
Ideally you move your fingers, not your arm or wrist. Realistically though,
nobody is playing games by moving their arm, even if that is perhaps what you
are suppose to do.

I mean, those same ergonomics guides also tell you to keep your back straight
and your feet flat on the floor in front of you. How many people do that?

------
purplelobster
Ok, that's it, if this controller works then I'm in. I played Portal with my
wife, and she loved it, but she's too afraid of the whole mouse+keyboard
control system so in the end she let me play while she just watched. I think
she can more easily learn a controller like this.

Also, I frickin' hate analog sticks for controlling shooters. After having
been a semi-serious CS player, I just can't bring my self to enjoying my
severely crippled aiming on consoles, it just takes 50% of the fun out.

~~~
ZoFreX
Have you checked out Portal 2? It has co-op and decent controller support, I
played through the co-op campaign for a second time with a 360 controller last
week (used keyboard + mouse the first time).

------
kibwen
Are those buttons on the _back_ of the controller? I'd be ecstatic if that's
the case. I've always suspected that having buttons on the back would allow
for a more natural grip than shunting buttons onto the shoulders. It may have
made sense for the SNES' flat bone controller, but not in the age of
controllers with thick, ergonomic palm grips.

~~~
Karzyn
I'd say so. If you look at the sample Portal 2 Bindings [1] the labels on the
bottom seem to pointing underneath the controller and in the disassembly image
[2] there seems to be another button-looking piece in front of the bottom
portion.

[1]:
[http://cdn2.store.steampowered.com/public/images/promo/livin...](http://cdn2.store.steampowered.com/public/images/promo/livingroom/rljKewyz3M/controller_bindings.jpg?v=2)
[2]:
[http://cdn2.store.steampowered.com/public/images/promo/livin...](http://cdn2.store.steampowered.com/public/images/promo/livingroom/rljKewyz3M/controller_parts.jpg?v=2)

------
Fuzzwah
I think that it is obvious that this dual track pad solution could be a good
move for any game style which currently uses dual analog sticks (FPS and 3rd
person, etc).

As others have already mentioned, it is less obvious whether this will be a
good solution for platformers and fighting games. But with a bit of quick
pondering I suspect it could open up a huge range of options for any developer
who wants to try and step outside the normal "the player will use combinations
of button presses to trigger actions".

For example, a platformer which rather than using a "tap button to trigger a
small jump" and "long press button for a larger jump" we could not only see a
"small up scroll = small jump" and "long up scroll = large jump" input method,
but also a "slow up scroll = slower jump" and "fast up scroll = faster, more
explosive jump".

Fighting games could also open up a lot of depth based on the length and speed
of right hand strokes, not to mention the variety of angles and rotations
which could be made.

The more I ponder it, the more I'm hopeful.

~~~
Pxtl
Remember that the track-pads are clickable like a face button, and it sports 2
shoulders and a 3rd pseudo-shoulder in the back-button on each side. That
means that for a fighting-game you've got a full suite of buttons available to
you. That's 9 buttons available assuming you keep your left thumb glued to the
trackpad. Buttons are not in short supply.

The real question is how well the track-pad works as a D-pad. For Mario-style
games that primarily use left and right but don't do much up and down? Should
work fine.

For a Capcom-style fighting game with its elaborate rolls and whatnot, or the
hyper-precise of a shmup? That's the real question.

~~~
slantyyz
>> For a Capcom-style fighting game with its elaborate rolls and whatnot, or
the hyper-precise of a shmup? That's the real question.

Fortunately there are gazillions of USB controllers out there that will
probably work out of the box with the Steam Machine. Many of the BT
controllers will probably work too.

I find the Steam Controller interesting because it's the first console-type
controller I've seen that might actually do a good job satisfying people
coming from the PC gaming world.

------
chasing
Interesting. Game controllers are a fascinating user experience design
challenge. While Playstation and Xbox controllers are fairly well-polished
functional workhorses, I appreciate companies (like Nintendo and, now, Valve)
pushing the envelope.

More than even the games (which, I suspect, will also mostly be available on
other consoles or PCs), this intrigues me enough to want to get a Steam
Machine. (Still, though -- that's a bit of a cumbersome name.)

~~~
ivarious
Just call it a "Machine".

~~~
leishulang
try to google the price for "Machine"

~~~
ijk
Valve has a high page-rank for "Steam", what makes you think that they can't
also co-opt "Machine"?

------
mikelat
Call me impressed. I never thought that the biggest innovator and risk taker
in the console market would be valve. All the other manufacturers have
basically made their platforms "safe" and they're pretty much like the last
generation, but this is pretty ballsy from valve.

~~~
Osiris
Speaking on innovation, the Xbox 360 came out with a brand new controller, but
the Xbox One has practically the same controller? It's like they didn't take
any time to re-evaluate the controller with the new console.

For that matter, the PS4 controller is the same except with a small touchpad
in the middle.

~~~
scrabble
In their defense the 360's controller is considered an amazing controller
already, so I understand them only making incremental improvements.

~~~
pyrocat
That's really the larger point here. The 360 controller is the standard now,
trying to improve upon it when the market is already flooded with that style
controller would be a losing battle for Valve. They decided to take a risk and
innovate, but it was pretty much their only viable option if they wanted to
enter the controller market.

------
smrtinsert
I love how Valve is making me say "I want a Steam machine!" in 2013.

~~~
narwally
So Steampunk.

------
9999
This looks absolutely fantastic, but it's a bit of a shame that they will only
be distributing them with the 300 beta kits. It would be nice if they could
get more of them out into the wild so people can actually hold one and see how
it feels. The only thing I cared about at E3 this year was seeing how the PS4
and Xbox One controllers actually felt in use.

It's interesting that they seem to have designed it largely to be used with
existing game designs and input requirements in mind, but they've also made
something that can create totally new input patterns and uses. The clickable
joysticks on the playstation and xbox controllers were sadly never fully
usable by designers because they don't work in a scenario where you want the
player to click and hold but still be able to navigate with the stick.
Obviously the haptic trackpad solves the click and drag to select mechanism
that an RTS demands, but think of all of the other things that a click, hold
and drag might be able to do in something like a boxing game, an FPS, a shmup
(dual stick ikaruga on one pad with a game designed for it?) or even something
like QWOP.

I really hope they make this available to more people.

------
Pxtl
"Including two on the back"

Holy crap wait what? Not highlighted in any of the diagrams but visible in the
teardown graphic, there's an extra pair of buttons on the back in ring-finger
position too. They said 16 buttons, so it's two front touchpad/buttons, 1
front screen/button, 3 nav-buttons (the bars along the bottom) 4 face-buttons
(a/b/x/y) 4 shoulder-buttons and 2 hidden back-side buttons.

~~~
vinkelhake
16 "buttons" is what we have on current gen console controllers. The 360 has
four shoulder buttons, A, B, X, Y, D-pad, start, select and click
functionality on both analogue sticks. Some games (GTA V) come close to using
all of them.

~~~
Pxtl
Yeah. In the typical twin-stick usage, this thing is missing one button on
each side - it's got an extra shoulder button on each side (the ones on the
back) but in the place of the 4 right face buttons and the left D-pad it's got
2 face buttons on each side.

Realistically, the other 4 buttons (the 3 bars on the bottom and the touch-
screen) don't map to normal gameplay buttons, whereas a Sony/XBox gamepad will
only have two of those "non-gameplay" buttons.

So technically, this thing has 2 fewer "gameplay buttons" than a typical
controller. But it has a touchscreen, and you can put a lot of the low-
reflexes stuff in there.

------
acgourley
This is huge. Consider that first person shooters are the largest genre in the
livingroom gaming space, and then consider this controller may change how
these games are made and played. Other consoles are locked into a thumbstick
system for the next 10 years. How big this is will come down to how the
controller works and feels, obviously, but it could be just massive.

~~~
ivarious
I think the reason that using mouse is more precise is not because of its
shape, but because we use at least all of our palm to use it while with
controllers you only have one thumb to connect the stick with your body.

~~~
icebraining
I disagree. I think the reason is more fundamental: with a mouse, you're doing
a direct translation (distance in pad → distance on screen), while with a
gamepad you're doing an indirect translation (distance in stick → _velocity_
in screen).

This is harder, because you're essentially forced to calculate (in a low
conscious way, of course) distance/speed to know for how much time you should
turn the stick.

~~~
eric_cc
This isn't true. With a mouse you have acceleration settings that greatly
change how distance works. Flick your mouse up quick vs slowly move it and
measure how much distance you've moved your mouse relative to where your mouse
moved to on the screen.

~~~
PeterisP
For any high-dpi mouse this is not useful and not used even in ordinary
windows/mac mode (is it really turned on by default? ugh..); and I've never
seen it used in games.

------
stelonix
I have to say, the biggest letdown for the next-gen consoles was the complete
lack of haptic feedback. It's 2013, and while I welcome better graphics, they
won't be enough to give immersion (still not even close to real life-like).
Haptic feedback can be, in my opinion, a huge factor both in immersion and
gameplay mechanics.

~~~
narwally
Hopefully this announcement will push Sony and Microsoft in the right
direction, they can always come out with a controller redesign after the
consoles are released.

------
beloch
"...gamers, who are used to the input associated with PCs, will appreciate
that the Steam Controller’s resolution approaches that of a desktop mouse."

Initially, I scoffed at this design ("Of course it's not as good as a mouse
for FPS games!), but then I thought about it. Traditional gamepads aren't just
a little bit worse than mice for FPS's. They're utter _shit_. You have to
completely rebalance a FPS for gamepad users because they're so clumsy
compared to a mouse&keyboard user. Still, gamepads are ergonomically fantastic
for what they're designed for. Sitting on a couch, surrounded by buddies, they
can't be beat for comfort and compactness.

Trackpads are a lot better than gamepads for precision control, but they're
still inferior to mice. This is no surprise. A mouse is centered around a
single (okay, sometimes two) point(s) of laser-powered high-precision optical
sensing. A trackpad is a giant array of sensors that are trying to approximate
your intent from where the center of a mushy blob of flesh is mashed up
against it applying pressure. Multi-touch gesture commands can help compensate
for this in many applications, but a FPS really demands a single, focused,
high-quality stream of user input, and the mouse is still god, emperor, and
_king_ when it comes to that!

This steam controller is intermediate between a joystick and a mouse, and
Valve is being honest about it. It's not going to be as precise as a mouse,
but it promises to be better than a joystick. Yeah, that sounds wishy-washy,
but only until you consider just how long the joystick has been with us. We're
talking about a method of input that hearkens back to the first automobiles
ever built. It's a big honking lever for applying force to a mechanical
steering apparatus! The joystick was not birthed out of the need for precision
input, but rather, out of the necessity to amplify human strength. This
controller, albeit an obvious evolution once you've seen it, is _genius_. If
Valve succeeds in delivering it, all existing gamepads will be rendered
obsolete. I don't know if the steambox will succeed because of this, but I
know I'd rather use one of these than the XBox360 controller I (very)
occasionally dust off to play console titles that have been (incompetently)
ported to the PC!

Even if the steambox is an utter failure, I think this controller will be a
runaway success. I know Gabe has a huge grudge against Microsoft over their
app store, but both MS and Valve could benefit if steambox controller support
was baked into the Xbox One. Ditto for Sony and the PS4. This controller could
change the course of the console wars.

~~~
Anonymous9823
I don't understand the FPS debate. Do you know what's better for racing games?

[http://i.imgur.com/HYOmoQl.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/HYOmoQl.jpg) \- Racing
Wheel and Pedals

Flying games?

[http://i.imgur.com/ejf4hPf.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/ejf4hPf.jpg) \- Joysticks

Fighting games?

[http://i.imgur.com/2lrevkG.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/2lrevkG.jpg) \- Arcade
Sticks

There's one device that works best for every single game genre, and mouse and
keyboard is that device for FPS games. Why do people expect one device to
match the functionality of all of the above inputs. They're vastly different
experiences, it's simply not going to happen. Controllers work great for
action games, platformers, and overall, they're the best well rounded device.
They're not designed to compete with the above controllers, they're a general
input device, so they're not going to be as efficient as something built for a
specific task.

If you're a hardcore FPS gamer, bring your mouse and keyboard into the living
room, or play at your desk. This is no different than someone buying a wheel
if they're into racing simulators.

I think Valve is achieving an even more well rounded device. By the sounds of
things, it'll improve the FPS and RTS experience on a controller. It'll most
likely make sacrifices to achieve that goal. For example, fighting games might
work better on a more traditional controller. However, the Steam library has a
much higher number of FPS and RTS games, so that trade off makes sense.

~~~
beloch
You forgot sword-play games, which could really benefit from a controller that
hasn't hit market yet (see Clang and STEM).

All of these game genres exist on consoles, and all of them are most typically
played with a game-pad. While specialist devices exist for most genres of
games, the gamepad is the default generalist that plays them all. The steam
controller promises to be a better generalist. Don't underestimate that.

~~~
f00_
What sword play games are there? The only ones I can think of off the top of
my head are Red Steel, and Skyward Sword. And both were made in service of the
wii.

------
pdknsk
While I applaud Valve for marching in a new direction, I'll remain very
skeptical until I've tried the controller myself. I doubt that the immediate
feedback and precision of a traditional console controller can be emulated
using trackpads, as advanced and "haptic" as they may be.

------
ClarkAulden
This is very encouraging. There appears to be non-trivial innovation here and
that has me excited. I too am interested in how the controller will handle
fighting games. The haptic feedback seems particularly interesting because It
seems possible that just maybe there could be an effect similar to the one
described here: [http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-05/27/disney-
tactil...](http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-05/27/disney-tactile-
brush) that might allow fingers to "feel" as though there were buttons or
edges or some similar effect. That might allow for a precise and traditionally
intuitive fighting game experience as well as interesting new applications.

------
gfodor
Jesus. So I might finally end up playing the ridiculously huge Steam library
I've accumulated over the years. Rad.

~~~
BigChiefSmokem
^ this was my first thought when I saw the controller.

I'll probably build my own Steam box but I'll definitely be buying the Steam
Controller. I think this is what they wanted us, the hardcore PC "gaming
master race" to do, while at the same time offering it up to OEMs for
consumption by the console folk.

<3 Gaben!

------
michniewski
The trackpads look great. Hopefully they can deliver on the promise of making
mouse and keyboard games more accessible on the tv console.

The Y and B buttons look difficult to press. Given the arc that your thumb
travels on pivoting from the base of the controller handles, it may make sense
to shift the buttons down and towards the center.

I would also consider removing the on-controller screen. It adds a big per-
controller cost. Also, when have these been successful? Neither the Wii U nor
the Dreamcast did this idea justice. Was it just bad implementation? I think
its just a bad idea.

------
mistercow
>n order to avoid forcing players to divide their attention between screens, a
critical feature of the Steam Controller comes from its deep integration with
Steam. When a player touches the controller screen, its display is overlayed
on top of the game they’re playing, allowing the player to leave their
attention squarely on the action, where it belongs.

OK, that solves that problem, so I agree with the decision, but why even have
a screen on the controller then? Seems like an unnecessary added cost, when
most players will never actually look at it.

------
ivarious
I don't know, this controller doesn't look like very comfortable for
platforming/fighting/action games.

~~~
Pxtl
Realistically I think fans of those genres will be sticking to the current
approach of using a PS3/XBox pad on their machine. Valve may have to sell a
1st-party knock-off of such a controller just for completeness.

This device is for Valve's massive library of PC games that need a keyboard
and mouse that are normally unplayable in the living room (unless your living
room includes a desk, in which case it's not really a living room now is it?)

------
romaniv
While this might be a good replacement for console controllers, I seriously
doubt that it will be successful in replacing keyboard and mouse for FPSes,
RTSes, point-and-click adventures and other genres that currently make PC game
market _interesting_. Which makes me sad. Valve is effectively turning its
back on the games (and gamers) that allowed it succeed despite competition
from consoles.

Personally, I am keenly interested in a better, more standardized and
streamlined gaming PC, but I'm not at all interested in yet another game
console with limited controls, centralized publisher model and locked down OS.
(And please, don't insult your intelligence by saying something along the
lines of "but you can always plug keyboard in". It's not a matter of what you
plug into the system, it's a matter of what UI design the system encourages.)

~~~
Pxtl
wat?

That PC market is literally _the entire point of this device_. It's meant to
get you mouse-like interactions on a handheld controller.

If you want to sit down on the sofa and play a PC-style game? It's this brand
new gamepad concept or _nothing else_. There is nothing like this thing (well,
except maybe that crazy alpha-grip thingy, but that's freaking weird).

~~~
romaniv
_That PC market is literally the entire point of this device._ This controller
will not help you play Dwarf Fortress or ArmA, and you won't be able to use it
to comfortably play any complicated RTSes either (because those need keyboard
shortcuts to be bearable).

~~~
Pxtl
So does TF2. So does DOTA2. Valve is going to be targeting that group,
obviously. And unlike TF2, RTS games don't need the left touchpad to be a
movement-stick - you could cram an assload of gesture-based stuff in there.

------
rthomas6
The big star picture at
[http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/](http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/)
has gotten larger and brighter after every announcement. Some people on reddit
are speculating that there will be a fourth announcement that comes out of the
star.

~~~
evanmoran
Sadly, at the bottom of this announcement they say "What’s next? We’re done
with our announcements." Which seems pretty definitive.

------
Siecje
It seems like it would be hard to play fighting games where you have to hit
combinations of buttons quickly.

~~~
andybak
Yep. Those kind of games were designed to map very closely to the physical
nature of gamepads so they will be harder to use the further you diverge from
a typical Playstation style controller.

------
muraiki
I have some RSI problems in my left hand that prevent me from holding down
WASD for movement in games. For the most part now I just play controller-based
games, but there's plenty of PC games that don't support (or don't work well
with) controllers.

I had thought for a long time that it'd be nice to have a one-handed analog
stick controller for my left hand, covered in buttons on the back, coupled
with a mouse. It would actually give me finer control over movement than a
keyboard, but with the aiming capability of a mouse.

This device isn't exactly that, but I'm really interested in this device to
see how it helps with my RSI when gaming. I'm also curious as to how the
haptic feedback will work. Maybe I should sign up for that beta after all!

------
thenonsequitur
I think it's great that Valve is innovating on controllers.

Personally, I won't buy one -- I don't intend on getting a steam machine so
I'd only be using it with my computer anyway, and I don't think this will ever
beat a keyboard/mouse in terms of practicality and ease of use.

But that aside, I'm glad they are at least trying to make a next-generation
controller -- gives me hope there might one day be a controller I actually
like. Though I'm not particularly hyped about the controller-specific features
via API. For a game system that usually ranks accessibility very highly, the
idea of device-tied game features strikes me as a somewhat regressive move,
even if the features themselves are progressive.

~~~
methodin
Keyboard and mouse is terrible for sitting in front of a tv, so in that
regard, this is compelling enough for me to play games while not sitting in a
secluded office room desk hah

~~~
thenonsequitur
Yeah, I agree with you. I should have qualified what I said. I meant to say,
"I'd only be using it with my computer anyway, and I don't think this will
ever beat a keyboard/mouse in terms of practicality and ease of use _with a
computer_ ". Agree that for a tv in the living room, or any environment where
a large flat surface in front of you is impractical, that a keyboard/mouse is
not so good.

------
earlz
Suddenly, I see absolutely no reason to buy an XBox One (and I'm a traditional
XBox fan boy)

------
ChikkaChiChi
At first I thought Gabe should have said something earlier in the week stating
"hardware announcements"

Then I realized how much mindshare the gaming community is giving a game that
doesn't even exist a week after a game launches to the tune of a billion
dollars.

The man is smart.

------
trippy_biscuits
It looks like it could work. I think I'd accidentally press the buttons on the
back, though. Does anyone remember the SpaceOrb 360 [1]? I had one for a
little while but returned it because it just didn't work as well for me as did
a keyb/mouse combo. If microsoft won't match console gamers against PC gamers
[2], how will steam pull it off?

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceOrb_360](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceOrb_360)
[2] [http://www.rahulsood.com/2010/07/console-gamers-get-
killed-a...](http://www.rahulsood.com/2010/07/console-gamers-get-killed-
against-pc.html)

------
theschwa
Does anyone have further information on the "dual linear resonant actuators"?

------
lnanek2
Multiple dual axis haptics is interesting. Also an absolute position touchpad
for looking around could actually be the fastest way to look at a particular
position. Plus an LCD. Very interesting. Definitely not just an also ran.

------
ivarious
[http://cdn3.store.steampowered.com/public/images/promo/livin...](http://cdn3.store.steampowered.com/public/images/promo/livingroom/rljKewyz3M/prototypes.jpg)

Looks effing comfy.

------
nzonbi
Just wow. Awesome controller. count me in.

Compared with the traditional mouse-keyboard controller for FPS games, it
easily surpasses the keyboard part as the movement controller. It may or may
not have the precision of a mouse as pointing device. But with the haptics
feedback, and the comfort of playing from the couch, I can see myself
preferring it over a mouse.

The most interesting part, is that with this fresh, even innovative design, it
looks capable of opening new gameplay styles. I can't wait to try it, and even
design software for it.

------
EFruit
I can't wait for it. Oddly enough, it seems like valve used the earlier patent
as flak.

I just hope the Linux drivers are open source, if they're not piggybacking off
bluetooth or something.

------
danso
Wow, the announcements are coming at a fast clip and each more impressive than
the last. I wonder if the final announcement in this round will be that Half
Life 3 is a launch title?

~~~
Pxtl
No, this was the final announcement. Valve clusters their announcements,
always.

------
prawn
Given that it's pretty much symmetrical, I wonder if it would've been possible
to split it into two parts (each the same) and move the touchscreen elsewhere.
The future, if you believe Sixense/etc is in controllers held by each hand
with each arm free to move independently. Allows for less space for
electronics and duplication I guess.

Just find it funny that the future in late 2013 is still something requiring
that our hands are held so closely together.

------
gfodor
Imagine this sucker paired with the Oculus. Interesting times.

~~~
forgeman
My thoughts exactly!

------
saejox
Love it already. Just look at those face buttons.

------
fournm
I'm skeptical and I'm going to stay that way until I actually get to try it
because of the haptic feedback, but..

The face button layout also gets to me. That's going to require some serious
mental gymnastics to re-wire 20+ years of face button layout muscle memory to
use this in some games (edit: especially platformers).

~~~
Pxtl
I'm thinking Valve basically wrote off retrogaming with this device - it's
after the modern genres that are completely split between the PC-style mouse-
and-keyboard and the console-style thumbsticks-and-shoulders.

A retrogaming pad would be nice as an additional peripheral to sell, but
realistically you can use any existing bluetooth gamepad with Steam.

~~~
gknoy
Good point: Since it works w/ any gamepad, in theory, you should be able to
get a nice bluetooth version of your SNES pad and have it Just Work. If you're
already playing those kinds of games, you might already have one for your
computer anyway.

------
avolcano
The key to this is the haptic feedback technology that makes it more than two
weird touch surfaces. Sounds awesome.

------
QuiteMouse
I still have doubts about this controller being worthwhile but Valve has never
led me astray before. I am willing to reserve judgement. Steam needs to
release Source Engine 2 with multi-platform support baked in before they can
ever hope to make a dent in the console market with living room gaming though.

------
coryfklein
My biggest concern is the possibility of touching the screen in the middle
while trying to hit the A,B,X,Y buttons. I know it specifically says you have
to physically press the screen down to confirm your choice, but it would be
distracting to be inadvertently interacting with the screen.

------
pmelendez
I need to use it to have a better opinion but the lack of joysticks is not
looking good to me.

------
mkaziz
"You can’t make a sentence into a question by just putting a question-mark at
the end."

err "You can’t make a sentence into a question by just putting a question-mark
at the end?" <\--- it's a question now.

~~~
narwally
That's just a sentence with a question mark?

~~~
stcredzero
It is?

------
kevinh
It looks like yet another controller with some special, device-specific
features (advanced haptic feedback) that will only be supported by their
first-party games and a few novelty ones.

I wouldn't buy one before trying it.

~~~
timdiggerm
> Even the older titles in the catalog and the ones which were not built with
> controller support. (We’ve fooled those older games into thinking they’re
> being played with a keyboard and mouse, but we’ve designed a gamepad that’s
> nothing like either one of those devices.

------
alexeisadeski3
Why not just use a mouse+kb?

I've been living room gaming w/wireless mouse+kb for years and years now. No
problems at all doing this from the couch. Kb in your lap, mouse by your side
with a hard metal mousepad.

------
wmf
Plus, it looks like an owl.

------
gpmcadam
I'm a bit miffed regarding all of the hype for what is essentially, at this
point, vapour-ware.

Also, why have Valve bothered to spread the announcement over 5 days? Surely
this whole deal would've been more beneficial to be a keynote style
announcement with some actual demos of the tech in question?

As great a product as it may be, in my opinion there's an awful lot of
excitement surrounding the announcement that Valve will _eventually_ announce
something ... next year ... probably.

I think I'll reserve my judgement on all of this until I can actually use it,
or at least see it in use.

~~~
NoodleIncident
Sign up for the hardware beta then. This isn't vaporware.

------
NDizzle
How long before the Thinkpad Nub/pointing stick guys are demanding a nub
version rather than a trackpad version? Think of the size reduction!

------
ambirex
Did I miss any sort of guidance for the cost?

~~~
Anonymous9823
First born.

------
tuananh
IMHO, controllers will not work well enough for FPS for a foreseeable future.

Trying to play sniper with a controller is just hopeless.

------
mikevm
Ay dios mio, this is going to rock!

Heck, as someone who doesn't own a console, this might finally get me to play
games on my TV.

------
X4
Eat that SONY!

This is how you really make a Game Controller.

------
gosukiwi
I highly doubt you can play dota without a keyboard and mouse, but it surely
can work for other games :)

~~~
Pxtl
Dota 2 will likely be one of the flagships of this thing. I don't know how
well it will work - likely you won't make it to the top of the league with
this. But you can be damned well sure that Valve had Dota 2 in mind when they
made this, and they will do everything possible to make Dota 2 play nicely on
it.

~~~
kelvie
I can last hit OK with a trackball (after some getting used to, thanks to
RSI), but edge scrolling is difficult.

With two trackballs, perhaps one of the wheels can be used for moving the
screen, and the other for moving the mouse.

They've implemented a "chat-wheel" with common in-game phrases to help with
communications as well, which seems to be a perfect fit for controller play.

I just can't wait for the day where I can invite people over, buy an 80" TV,
and play Dota 2 split screened on controllers!

~~~
Pxtl
On an 80" screen I'd want to see a DOTA-like game that zooms out and shows all
the action in a single-screen, Super Smash Bros style.

------
fartface
i'm rooting for this thing so hard. i have hundreds of games sans controller
support that i never play because i run big picture mode in the living room
with an xbox controller for the few games that do have controller support.

------
shire
Nice concept! would be interesting to play this with 0 A.D or Age of Empires.

------
journeeman
Is that an Xfce panel on the top, in the image? Looks like Steam on Xubuntu.

------
agumonkey
Very impressive train of release and innovation from Valve. Joy inducing.

------
fosk
Steam is a company that should be feared by the big players.

------
wnevets
mouse > track pad > analog stick

~~~
nekopa
? > mouse.

Do you really think that the mouse which was invented in the 60s (mother of
all demos) is the pinnacle of technology regarding input? It is for now (I do
agree with your premise for my own personal reasons) but such a bold
expression seems a little, how should I put this, _small_ minded.

I feel this is an interesting direction to experiment on.

~~~
Miyamoto
> _Do you really think that the mouse which was invented in the 60s (mother of
> all demos) is the pinnacle of technology regarding input?_

You're kind of pushing what he said. He's referring to gaming, and probably
shooter games. A mouse is definitely the most precise input device for
shooters, or else you'd see professional eSport FPS players using laptop
trackpads.

~~~
inerte
And Valve kinda says it:

"the Steam Controller’s resolution approaches that of a desktop mouse"

------
machbio
I just want to say ^:)^ to steam

------
eddielee6
bravo.

