
Norway plans to cull more than two-thirds of its wolf population - eloff
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/sep/16/norway-wolf-cull-government-wwf-friends-earth-environment-protest
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2trill2spill
It's amazing how low the wolf population is in Norway, 68 wolfs in the entire
country! While here in Minnesota we have nearly 2,300 wolfs across 439 wolf
packs mid winter 2016[1]. But that puts them only at 3.2 wolves per 100 km2 of
occupied range[2]. That must make the wolf density and total range in Norway
absurdly low, why would they "cull" the wolfs when there are so few.

Plus the wolfs are not really a problem here in Minnesota, a few people's pets
have been killed, which sucks but thats all you really here about.

[1]: [http://news.dnr.state.mn.us/2016/08/22/minnesotas-wolf-
popul...](http://news.dnr.state.mn.us/2016/08/22/minnesotas-wolf-population-
remains-stable-2/)

[2]:
[http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/wildlife/wolves/2015/survey_wol...](http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/wildlife/wolves/2015/survey_wolf.pdf)

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ObeyTheGuts
dude norway has no forests, land is all steap mountains fragmented by fjords,
only in southeast there is little suitable wolf land, nothing compared to
minnesota.

~~~
lobster_johnson
38% of Norway (146,364 km2, or 56,509 square miles) is covered by forest and
woodland.

~~~
ObeyTheGuts
typical nerd, taking statistics and not real life. "forest/woodland" is not
same thing everywhere -
[http://www.borealforest.org/world/images/norway_wilderness_l...](http://www.borealforest.org/world/images/norway_wilderness_loss.jpg)

wolf relevant forest is tiny tiny tiny

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dazzawazza
For thousands of years humans have farmed with wolves near by. The Japanese
used to use Akita to fend off wolves who are looking for the easiest, lowest
risk source of calories. Seems to me that the Norwegians should ask the Sami
people of the region how they lived with wolves for so long while herding
reindeer and maybe look at using the Lapphund to guard their herds.

Of course that may mean they would have to go out and shoot the wolves after
the dogs warn them but that would have a positive effect on the wolves
teaching them that they get shot if they go near the sheep. Culls don't teach
the wolf packs anything.

That may also mean the farmers have to live with their herds which doesn't
blend well with modern life so maybe we should scrap the sheep farming and not
the wolves?

~~~
Tuna-Fish
The traditional way the Sami people manage wolves is by systematically killing
all of them. The method they do this is that whenever anyone finds any prints
on the snow, they encircle the area, laying a kind of "streamer" that smells
like people (so wolves don't want to approach it), constantly reducing the
area until the wolfpack is trapped in a small enough area that they cannot
hide or escape and can be slaughtered.

The reindeer herding areas of Lapland have no wolves, and have not had any for
any long period during recorded history. The Sami claim the right to kill all
wolves on their territory despite environmental legislation and their
endangered status as part of their unalienable rights as indigenous people.

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jackgavigan
This is sad.

Although the gray wolf as a species is classifed as "Least Concern" by the
IUCN (International Union for Conservation of Nature), the Scandinavian wolf
population is classified as 'Engdangered'.

Instead of killing wolves, we should be trapping them and redistributing them
to help ensure genetic diversity in isolated populations like Scandinavia's.

~~~
krona
> we should be trapping them and redistributing them

European wolves routinely travel 60-80km a day for food, and since they are
very social (pack oriented) hunters, a lone wolf (forced away from the pack,
for what ever reason) can travel many hundreds of kilometers per week in
search of other packs, new hunting grounds etc.

Meanwhile, Norway is full of hill farming in areas suitable for wolves.

I can talk about the livelihoods of people and families that have been
decimated by the increase in the wolf population in Sweden, but instead I will
say that many of these people would rather risk a jail sentence and hunt them
themselves than try to convince the government to do anything about it.

> This is sad.

Agreed.

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Dylan16807
78 wolves in Norway and 340 in Sweden? If you as a farmer can't handle one
wolf per 28 thousand humans, I feel bad for you, but the lives of those wolves
are more important than a slight increase in farming profits. This is not wolf
life vs. human life.

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marvin
Farming in Norway is largely unprofitable anyway. All West Norwegian farmers I
have talked to consider it an expensive hobby. Most Norwegian farming is only
economically viable due to government subsidies, which have a long tradition
due to famine in old history and living memory.

~~~
digi_owl
Also a cold war policy of being self-sufficient if shit hit the fan.

And i think farming did better until we started pumping oil, and the export of
that drove the exchange rate out of whack.

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maxander
There are ~200k sheep in Norway, about 1mil livestock total [1] and less than
100 wolves. Unless these wolves have devoted themselves totally to taking down
sheep, the idea that they're a real issue is preposterous.

[1] [http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-
explained/index.php/...](http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-
explained/index.php/File:Figure_5_Livestock_by_main_types_NO_2000_and_2010.PNG)

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clumsysmurf
Sounds like a really bad idea

"A recent study in the journal Science, "Trophic Downgrading of Planet Earth,"
examines how the near disappearance of upper levels of the food chain—big
cats, wolves, bison and great whales—has altered ecosystems around the world."

[https://www.fastcoexist.com/1678282/humanitys-biggest-
impact...](https://www.fastcoexist.com/1678282/humanitys-biggest-impact-may-
be-the-extinction-of-predators)

And more recently "... pups of predators in socially disrupted packs are more
likely to prey on livestock."

[http://www.publicnewsservice.org/2016-09-15/endangered-
speci...](http://www.publicnewsservice.org/2016-09-15/endangered-species-and-
wildlife/study-killing-wolves-may-not-protect-livestock/a54029-1)

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known
Highly deplorable :( Norway is a wealthy country;
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_wealth_fund#Largest_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_wealth_fund#Largest_sovereign_wealth_funds)

~~~
digi_owl
On paper yes, in reality no. There is a high chance of basically trashing the
national economy of that is spent, depending on what effect it would have on
the exchange rate etc.

~~~
kwhitefoot
Which is why the government of Norway is careful about how much they spend.

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0x07c0
>That population would be below the level necessary to maintain genetic
diversity. At least in NZ, the Kiwis have the decency to say that they want a
species eliminated outright. The Norwegian wolf population is a common
population with the Swedish population. The total is something like 400 wolfs.
(For the record I support a robust wolf population.)

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guard-of-terra
It's weird that they have just 70 wolves in such a huge country. Heck, how
could they even count them when I would expect them to roam freely from
Finland and Murmansk and back. Wasn't Norway mostly huge wilderness actually?

~~~
ptaipale
The count is indeed a very disputed number precisely because wolves roam
across the borders between Norway, Sweden, Finland and Russia. Those who
suffer damages from wolves often claim that the number of wolves is actually
much larger. Conservationists offer smallest numbers.

I don't know if Norway is so huge. Land area is about 300 000 km, for
Americans: about three-quarters of Montana.

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MindTooth
Not our proudest moment..

Regarding lost life stocks, this can be solved by having a herdsman watching
over the life stock. But no one wants to work as such, and therefore they kill
the wolfs instead.

(My grandfather was a herdsman.)

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smackay
This decision is probably for political reasons in favour of two groups within
Norway: hunters who probably want to shoot more deer and elk or perhaps moose
and the Saami who get paid by the state based on the number of reindeer they
have roaming the tundra in the mountains and the north of the country.

Not sure if the latter is still the case. When I last visited the far north
the effects of overgrazing by reindeer were starting to be severe in places.
The densities of reindeer are pretty high so wolves would have a spectacularly
easy time and would do very well as a result.

~~~
digi_owl
I don't think the wolf has ever been a problem up north.

Nah, this is a local issue in the counties near Oslo.

The decision is not even made centrally, but left to the counties.

You can bet your behind that they were leaned on heavily by local farmers.

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vsviridov
Damn, I imagined hordes of wolves roaming about, but then I open an article
and learn that there's only 68.

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zunk
[https://g.co/kgs/6tfjQu](https://g.co/kgs/6tfjQu) A Little wolf-pro activism
from Follow Him to the End of the Desert. Not Norwegian, but Swedes.

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musha68k
I'm disappointed of Norway, they could do so much better than that.

It's strange as they usually do - remember how humanely and thoughtful they
handled the terror incidents of 2011.

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tn13
Why not allow people to buy these wolves to be kept in private forests ?

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kiiski
I'm not familiar with the details of Norway, but the Nordic countries have so
called "everyman's rights" which among other things say that owners of forests
can't restrict people from roaming in their (uncultivated) land. Building a
fence around your forest would most likely not be allowed.

~~~
tn13
Bad for the wolves. But I think the wolves can at least be sold to the keepers
of exotic animals or even sent to other countries which might be interested.

We need an international market (legal) for exotic animals.

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sandworm101
How many sheep do these few dozen wolves kill?

How much do sheep cost?

How much does Norway spend on promoting tourism?

This isn't about the business of raising livestock. This is an ideological
hunt. This is killing wolves to make wolves dead. When in a few years they
come knocking on Canada's door for new wolves, as America once did for
Yellowstone, I hope we charge them millions.

