
Show HN: HeapSort – Jobs for Full Stack Software Engineers - ckinsey
http://www.heapsortjobs.com
======
ckinsey
Hi Guys--I'm a co-founder at HeapSort. We just launched our MVP this week and
we're looking for constructive feedback from the developer and startup
communities.

In the coming weeks we'll be launching a series of powerful resume building
tools specifically for full stack engineers. It's not just another job board--
we're going to totally change the way developers convey their skills to
employers.

We welcome any thoughts, comments, or suggestions.

-Casey

~~~
j45
Please include a broader description of Full-stack developers accurate to the
term historically over the years.

Full-stack to many (more than not) means hardware, software, and the
associated network setup, all in one person.

Being fluent in front/backend software only was normal, not specialized.

Edit: added detail to request

~~~
rschmitty
Is this still true in the days of the cloud?

~~~
j45
The cloud is nothing new, where openstack exists today to run your own cloud,
there were ways to do it in the past. Many solutions end up on dedicated
servers in the long term as well.

------
nchuhoai
Interesting idea. I've been thinking about this a lot lately.

I love the full stack and want to pursue it as my post-grad career. That being
said, it seems like full-stack people are only really valuable in situations
in which their full-stack capabilities of wearing multiple hats is
competitively needed.

IMO, that only happens in the early stages of a startup or temporary resource
constrained company (i.e. a project etc.). I.e. the working arrangements are
in somewhat temporary in nature.

So the biggest issue I see with become a full stack developer is how to chase
after these inevitable temporary work arrangements. That's my biggest
hesitation: How do I make sure I have a constant stream of work if I assume
that my current gig/work is gonna be limited in time.

I'm no expert, but I don't expect the conveyance of skills to be a major
problem, it's more like a matching problem of people who need something done,
but can't afford to hire multiple people for that.

~~~
ckinsey
Good points.

First off, thanks for checking out the site. You are absolutely correct that
full-stack engineers are _not_ needed at organizations of every size and
structure. They are, in my experience, in the highest demand in any
organization that has a small to medium size technical team. The reality is
that many teams of this size exist--there are far more small teams than their
are large ones in the workforce. I come from a background in news media,
specifically newspapers. Let me tell you that EVERY news organization, even at
the local level, needs full stack developers. Almost none of them need, for
example, an Angular.js specialist.

Larger organizations, especially proper software companies, can afford to
diversify their workforce into highly focused and manageable skillets. But,
that does not mean there is no place for the full stack engineer in these
companies. Positions like Operations Managers, Data Architects, Heads of
Technology, Directors of Application Development and even some Project
Managers are filled very well by candidates with full stack engineering
backgrounds.

So its important to note that these positions do exist in organizations of all
sizes and in many cases, they are a fast moving career path into management. I
do recommend this path post grad--I've been working as a full stack developer
for nearly a decade, and the biggest struggle I've had is having to turn down
work. That's exactly why I started this project, because I have more jobs
coming across my desk than I can apply for.

In my personal experience recently as Head of Technology for a startup
company, conveyance of skills really was a big challenge for us. We needed
highly capable engineers, and headhunters were throwing us lots of unqualified
talent. That's a tough pill to swallow when you are paying many thousands of
dollars just to _search_ for talent on a startup's budget. I felt that had I
been given some very quality insight into the skills of the talent pool, I
could have done a much better job of vetting the candidates myself for our
specific needs--another concept that pushed me to start this project!

-Casey

~~~
nollidge
And it really depends on how the company breaks down their development teams.
Some do it by function, but some large enterprises divide things by business
area - so you'll have a team for accounting, one for packaging, one for
manufacturing, etc. In that sort of structure, generalists are much more
valuable.

------
nfoz
"full stack web developer"

What do we call people that are _actually_ full-stack, rather than just the
front-end client/server parts?

~~~
chc
In the context of Web development, what are the parts of the stack that are
not the client or the server? I thought those were the things that defined the
Web.

~~~
coolsunglasses
I'm a full stack dev that's built out distributed systems and has filled in
for the role of "resident DBA" while still doing backend and frontend dev.

Now I'm learning biomedical NLP.

So what do we call me? Stuffed-full-stack dev?

There's more to life than knowing Rails and Coffeescript.

~~~
chc
Note that the phrase employed here was "full-stack _web dev_ ". It sounds like
you aren't doing web development, so that would be the distinction.

~~~
coolsunglasses
The point in time I was referring to, _was_ full-stack web dev _plus_ DBA &
scale-out work.

------
noir_lord
Not sure what a full stack developer even is.

Take me for example...

I've been programming since the 80's (started at 7), I have 16 years
experience with Linux as both a desktop and a server OS, I've programmed for
money (often as side jobs) in VB6, Delphi, C# and PHP/Python.

I've put entire systems into production from design to deployment, some of
which have up-time’s measured in years.

I know database design (I can normalise, understand the value of key
constraints, views, triggers etc), I know a couple of different PHP frameworks
(I currently use Laravel for most things with composer and vagrant). I know my
way around JS mostly (I generally just pick up what I need on the front end),
I have an excellent knowledge of HTML and CSS.

I also have a good grasp of SME networking (I ran the network for a multi-
occupancy shared office building as well as been in-house developer).

That is about a tenth of the crap I've picked up over the years.

Am I a "full stack developer"?

~~~
krapp
I bet if you started calling yourself one you could get away with it.

------
rpwilcox
What kind of filter will be in place to be assured that these are full stack
jobs?

For example, for the Bradford and Galt Consulting Python/Django job... "some
Javascript". This does not scream "full stack" job to me, "some Javascript".
What do they use for DevOps? Will I get to write C or Go? Unless they use the
SomeJavascriptMVC.js framework, I'm guessing their JS is... mostly trivial. To
say nothing of DevSales or project management responsibilities.

~~~
ckinsey
The filter is not there yet, but it will be soon.

We've got a proprietary algorithm in development that identifies the scope of
both a candidates skills and the skills required by a position.

Without divulging too much secret sauce, we'll be filtering out positions that
do not meet our definition of "full stack" and we'll also be conveying to
candidates just how "full stack" each position is with a rating system.

~~~
rpwilcox
It'll be interesting to see what, if any gradients emerge.

Technically the "generic OSS based web" stack starts at debugging Linux kernel
code (and sys admin _cough_ DevOps _cough_ ), up through the OSI layer (with
particular stops at the application(?)/HTTP-serving layer (and supporting
code! aka: breaking out C to write a faster Rails router) and then again at
the WebKit/Blink rendering engines, plus v8/JavascriptCore-whatever-Safari-
names it, through CSS (Safari's CSS JIT work anyone?) through behaviors of
said implementations. Plus add a stack of project management, requirements
analysis, business analyst, and product design/UX.

To make this problem worse that's just one of many stacks. The native app
development stack. The good boys and girls doing work with custom hardware
(robotics, waldos etc) with realtime hardware requirements for example. A
"generic MS based stack" which behaves similar in parts with very noticeable
differences in places. Etc.

How-some-ever I suspect most, if not all of your employers will be looking for
some sliver of the "full stack". Like the employer I mentioned earlier, whose
definition of full stack is "Mostly Server-side Python but you should be OK at
simple HTML/JS/CSS too". Or the new startups looking for people who can "write
Javascript on the serverside too!"

~~~
ckinsey
The reality is that "Full Stack" means different things to different people,
as evidenced by some of the threads here.

That said, "people who can fill multiple roles" isn't exactly a marketable
title for a demographic. And while "full stack" may have a variable degree of
definitions, there is a commonality between them, and it resonates with our
target audience.

You're right, different gradients will emerge and we'll facilitate that--we'll
be the ones grading them, in fact, and make it easy for you to find the jobs
that align with your skill set.

------
commentortoday
your city search is broken ... i type in gibberish ("asdfasdfasdfasdf") and
get a Django error dump. Srsly ... this should be fixed asap. I'll say one
thing about your clientele they rather have things work good then look nice.
But both are important, welcome to the web.

------
saregama
Are there any sites which match "Vice Presidents/Product Managers/Program
Managers/Directors" to companies who need them ? and showing samples of their
work !

------
rschmitty
It would be nice for job boards to require companies to post salary ranges.
But I guess you wouldnt get much traction from companies that way because they
want all the leverage..

~~~
doughj3
To some extent, this is what Hired.com (formerly Developer Auction) is trying
to resolve. I think they're able to coax salaries upfront from companies
because they filter and curate the applicants.

------
grej
This looks like a really cool idea. I like the idea of having a place for full
stack developers to build a "digital cover letter" and showcase code samples
within it.

------
thinkpad20
What distinguishes your site from a site like AngelList.co?

~~~
ckinsey
I'd say quite a few things. We're focused on developers, not companies. This
is not a place to showcase a startup or court VC money; this is a place where
developers can build a new type of interactive resume and leverage it to find
solid jobs.

------
j45
I thought full-stack meant hardware, software, and the networking layer? If
anyone's like that, interested to chat.

