

Pirate Party Germany now at 8% in nationwide polls - FrojoS
http://www.taiwannews.com.tw/etn/news_content.php?id=1726590

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Igor_Bratnikov
As someone on the ground in Germany I can tell that a lot of Germans, even
techies are still confused and not sure what the Pirate Party represents or
what their actual political program is, which greatly devalues what ever
recent wins they have acquired. Unfortunately a political party must be about
more than just transparency and better IP policies (I agree with both though)
or at least that is how the Germans see the Pirates.

~~~
moe
As a techie my perception is that the pirate party is not about a program,
it's about the process.

They use an internet based system called "liquid feedback" for collaboration.
Every member can propose stuff. Every member gets one vote. The highest voted
stuff becomes the program. All of this happens online.

Yes, it's still young and immature. But please compare to how your
conventional political party operates and tell me with a straight face it
doesn't sound like a good idea.

<https://lqfb.piratenpartei.de/>

~~~
A1kmm
Voting yes or no without discussing why doesn't lead to good policy outcomes.

Consensus works far better for policy; 90% of people might read something and
think it sounds good, while 10% of people might spot a terrible flaw. Simply
voting would let the policy be ratified with the flaw, while in a consensus
process the facilitator would let each side present their views, and someone
might come up with a proposal that addresses the flaw and satisfies everyone.

Consensus doesn't need 100% agreement, and even when you get down to the most
fundamental agreements, people with the same facts who are aware of each
others viewpoints can still disagree (at which point the majority view has to
win), but the process should continue until that point is reached. This
process does require some subjective decision making (e.g. around when
consensus has been reached), so it can't yet be fully automated.

~~~
moe
I'm not a member of the pirate party (so can't speak for them), but I want to
avoid fueling concerns with my simplified description of their system.

I don't think their goal is automating the decisions, their goal is to add
much needed efficiency and transparency to the process by taking it online.

When you look at their software then it's a web-forum with a purpose-built
voting/karma system.

For the first time I (a non-member) can go to the website of a political
party, read their discussions, learn who is proposing what, who is voting for
what and what the dominating opinions are.

You and I may not agree with their (lack of) positions on various subjects.
But, as I understand it, it takes nothing more than an online-registration to
join in on a discussion, and to present your own ideas on a level playground.

As far as I am concerned that's an overdue breath of fresh air.

Unless you prefer the state-of-the-art; backroom-politics with an "old boys
club" calling the shots...

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nextparadigms
They are basically throwing the electorate at them with all the new laws and
proposals for Internet disconnection and all that. They probably don't even
see it coming.

~~~
fab13n
> They are basically throwing the electorate at them

I think they're primarily throwing the non-electorate.

Many young people don't vote because they perceive it to be about boring, old
people stuff they don't really get nor care about. They barely know what are
inflation or the ECB fund rate, they certainly don't have any advice about
who's going to act on it in the most constructive way.

Now mess with their Internets, and suddenly they understand what the poll is
about. Politicians have tailored their rhetorics for a world in which retired
people vote, whereas youngsters don't. It looks like it's changing.

~~~
jbooth
Most old people barely know what inflation or the ECB/fed fund rate are,
either, just sayin.

~~~
fab13n
Yet it doesn't prevent them from having an advice about it, it seems.

Hypothesis: when you're young, you can dismiss these stuff and have no advice
about them, because they're grown-ups stuff. As you age, you have to admit
that they're for smarter people, not merely older ones.

~~~
burgerbrain
s/advice/uneducated opinion/

Yeah, I think I'll stick with _"not knowing what all that shit means, and
being self aware enough to realize it"_.

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rmoriz
So what do we learn out of this? Move your buttocks and bring in your skills
and time:

<http://twitpic.com/6tg4l9> (that's Marina Weisband, Member of the Board,
Piratenpartei Deutschland)

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kayoone
This is good, it shows that the people dont like the mess the current
government is producing.

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jarek-foksa
Posting voting polls in which your favorite party scores well, especially
directly before elections, falls under __political agitation __category. Could
we please keep this out of HN?

I'm suprised that party which seeks to seriously impair (if not completely
blow) the software industry gets so much applause here.

~~~
nickik
This website is called Hacker News. They pretty much represent the Hacker
ethic in form of a political party. Its getting posted here because its
intressting to alot of Americans that don't have a party like this in america.

How exactlly do the impair the software industry? Some (don't know how many
exactlly) of the guys that got elected into the berlin parlament work together
in a software startup. One of them even owns it. Why would they destroy the
industry many of them work in?

~~~
jarek-foksa
I meant HN as a startup scene.

If you are selling software product and all means of fighting with
unauthorized redistribution are taken away from you then you are screwed.
That's all I have to say.

~~~
slowpoke
> If you are selling software product

Well then, there is your problem. Your business model does no longer work (or
rather, is slowly but inevitably failing) - you cannot force people to pay for
the distribution of infinitely copyable data, and neither can you ultimately
force them to pay you to use it.

My question is: How exactly does this entitle you to demand laws to save your
business model?

You could apply the very same argument you are using against Free Software
(the libre kind), which is still nonsense.

Besides, generations of industries have been put out of business by technical
advancements. I don't see why the software industry (or any digital media
industry, for that matter) should be the first to have a special exception
just because they whine loud enough.

How about you stop complaining about inevitable progress and instead try to
find new ways to make ends meet? Adapt or face being made obsolete - it's that
simple, really.

