
Eat, Drink and Be Wary: Ex-CIA Officer Reveals How Eateries Are Key to Spycraft - lnguyen
https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2019/10/16/770368584/eat-drink-and-be-wary-ex-cia-officer-reveals-how-eateries-are-key-to-spycraft
======
mysterydip
This is well known but often ignored for convenience. Go to any restaurant in
the DC area around lunchtime and you'd be amazed at what you can learn from
the table next to you.

~~~
opportune
Also true for the Caltrain, coffee shops, and nicer restaurants between SF and
SJ. And SFO, SJC, and SEA airports; I think I hear some salesman loudly
talking about a deal almost every time I fly out of those places on weekdays.

~~~
User23
Fun fact: Using knowledge gained in this way isn't insider trading[1].
Conceivably a person could even sell tips based on information heard in public
places to traders. During the golden age of Wall Street, this was extremely
common. Traders or their lackeys would visit businesses (or the bars near
them) and pump employees for info.

[1] Not a lawyer, not legal advice.

~~~
joezydeco
What's even wackier is that in commodities trading, insider information _was_
allowed.

The loophole was a key plot point in the movie "Trading Places" and when the
2010 financial overhaul rules were passed, this section was nicknamed "The
Eddie Murphy Rule".

[https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2013/07/09/200401407/epis...](https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2013/07/09/200401407/episode-471-the-
eddie-murphy-rule)

~~~
latch
Only wacky if you think insider trading is a bad thing. There's a pretty vocal
minority of economist who thinks it does more harm than good.

One of the most objective summaries I've seen is from the Federal Reserve Bank
of Atlanta (1).

Subjectively: intentional or not, insider trading laws drastically protect and
enhances wallstreet's information asymmetry advantage.

(1)
[https://www.frbatlanta.org/-/media/documents/research/public...](https://www.frbatlanta.org/-/media/documents/research/publications/economic-
review/1997/vol82no4_hu-noe.pdf)

~~~
bernawil
"insider trading" is one of funniest many exceptions to the rules of
capitalism. Like someone said "The financial system works! you support
companies you think will do good for profit! it's great, it will regulate
itself! Only, you can only bet with bad information and we'll make great
expense into regulating you are not using good info!.

------
deftnerd
I wonder what criteria is used to determine "the most operationally optimal
seat in the restaurant".

If it's a standard formula that most agents use because it's tried and true,
then it could be viable to bug one or two tables in select restaurants in the
DC area.

Basically, cast a wide net and see what information you get.

Same could apply at restaurants where business deals are discussed in order to
perform insider trading, but unless they have a "movers and shakers" booth or
room, it would be harder to pick the right table. Probably easier to pay
waiters for intel.

~~~
pjmorris
My wife likes to sit in what she calls 'the Mafia seat', the seat in a
restaurant that is best-protected by walls, etc, from behind, and that gives
the best view of the rest of the room, so you can see what or who is coming.

She's not in the mafia or allied professions, AFAIK, but I'd wager that
similar metrics are used by the professionals.

~~~
OJFord
Sounds like what many people (perhaps your wife is one of them) subconsciously
prefer and tend to, which as I've been informed on HN before (I am one of
them, I'm aware I have such a preference but it's not consciously deliberate)
is Zen's 'command position'.

I believe it came up before in the context of office desk arrangements. In
office or restaurant, wherever, I find it very uncomfortable to have things
going on behind me.

~~~
solidsnack9000
Zen Buddhism’s command position?

~~~
OJFord
I confess I'm not really familiar, I was just trying to repeat what I'd been
told after previously describing the feeling (and the position). Having
searched briefly for more information, it seems I meant feng shui rather than
zen.

------
jwilk
Text-only version:

[https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=770368584](https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=770368584)

------
oska
> invited her to a pub called the Fuggle & Firkin

 _Fuggle_ is a classic English aroma hop, released in 1875 by Mr Richard
Fuggle. [1]

 _Firkin_ is an English brewery cask unit, specifically one fourth of a barrel
or half a kilderkin. [2]

There used to be a chain of Firkin pubs in the UK, all of which featured
Firkin in the name, e.g. Fettler and Firkin, Goose and Firkin, etc. [3]

[1]
[https://www.britishhops.org.uk/varieties/fuggle/](https://www.britishhops.org.uk/varieties/fuggle/)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_brewery_cask_units#Fir...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_brewery_cask_units#Firkin)

[3]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firkin_Brewery](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firkin_Brewery)

~~~
charwalker
fox and Firkin in my hometown closed but the brewery there now rocks sours.

~~~
hawaiian
California in a lesser known town? I know of a Firkin & Fox.

------
comicjk
I found this title subtly wrong, and it took me a little while to realize why:
my accent doesn't have the Mary–marry–merry merger, so "Be Wary" and "Be
Merry" don't rhyme for me.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-
language_vowel_changes...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-
language_vowel_changes_before_historic_/r/#Mary%E2%80%93marry%E2%80%93merry_merger)

~~~
apendleton
As someone who does have this merger, which one (of Mary/marry/merry) does
"wary" most resemble for you?

~~~
junar
I think the answer is "Mary".

[https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Rhymes:English/%C9%9B%C9%99%C...](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Rhymes:English/%C9%9B%C9%99%C9%B9i)

~~~
hisnameisjimmy
Mary and Merry are exactly the same as Wary to me.

------
ryanmercer
>and how to commit suicide.

And that's when I'd come to my senses, realize all the sweet talk they lured
me in with was rubbish, and hand in my 2 second resignation notice, if an
employer is going to train me on how to end my own life I'm out.

~~~
Scapeghost
heh you were downvoted for that. Apparently someone approves of

* An employer training their employees to kill themselves.

* A line of work where employees may have to kill themselves.

* Dying for the US government (more like actually the interests of the elites) and the "greater good".

How is that different from the indoctrination of suicide bombers?

Before someone retorts with "because they kill innocent civilians", do you
think the CIA etc never does that?

~~~
bitlax
> How is that different from the indoctrination of suicide bombers?

Presumably the CIA mission is not dependent on the agent's suicide. This is an
action taken in a worst-case scenario to avoid torture.

~~~
macintux
Right. They’re going to be killed anyway after immeasurable misery and
betraying their contacts, so best to end it themselves.

------
RcouF1uZ4gsC
I wonder how much of CIA spycraft has been made obsolete because of social
media?

In the past finding out who someone's family, friends, interests, political
leanings, where they travel, and skills might involve sending a human to
secretly follow them around. Now you can just see who their family and friends
on Facebook are, look at their daugther's Instagram page to see where the
family has traveled, see their comments on reddit to know their political
leanings, and looked at LinkedIn to see what skills they have.

~~~
blantonl
CIA agents are trained to be perfectly just like "one of us" leading
apparently normal lives.

There are most likely CIA agents among us here on Hacker News... functioning
as technology executives, sales people, engineers, developers, etc

~~~
Mirioron
> _technology executives_

I've always wondered what the upper limit for this is. How high up on the
social/wealth ladder do you have to go for there to essentially be no chance
that the person is an intelligence officer?

~~~
Der_Einzige
The higher you go in the ladder the more likely you are to be talking to a
spook

------
cheschire
I wonder if they give a class in juggalo paint at the farm, and other means of
bypassing facial recognition programs. The tenure of a field operative these
days must be incredibly short

~~~
rm_-rf_slash
Facial recognition countermeasures can be considered in some ways obsolete in
an era of stance and gait recognition.

~~~
caf
At last the Ministry of Silly Walks shows its value to the wider bureaucracy.

------
goatinaboat
_to "the Farm," a secret CIA facility in Virginia where their grueling
training included all the obligatory skills of what Fox refers to as "the Bond
business": how to flip or crash a car; how to use a Glock; how to parachute;
how to use a speedboat; how to withstand torture; how to use a grocery bag and
duct tape to bandage a punctured chest; and how to commit suicide_

This is over-egging the pudding a bit.

~~~
chimi
You'd think the "commit suicide" lesson would just be "perform any of the
prior taught skills not well enough."

~~~
tempsy
You laugh, but this story from a few months ago is crazy
[https://nypost.com/2019/07/24/fbi-agent-brother-to-cop-
accus...](https://nypost.com/2019/07/24/fbi-agent-brother-to-cop-accused-of-
murder-for-hire-plot-dead-by-suicide-sources/)

Some redditors who were at the bar posted on how he was with agents that were
bartenders

------
nitwit005
Should one be surprised that the CIA have lunch meetings when recruiting
people?

Honestly, that part of things always seemed quite similar to a sales or
marketing job. They also apparently do things like go to conferences, meet
people, and collect business cards.

------
zby
Warning: I tried to read it - but after half of it I found no content.

~~~
unethical_ban
Did you have a technical issue with npr.org or are you stating your opinion
that the article wasn't interesting?

~~~
zby
It was an opinion. I am now sorry for being snarky - but my opinion did not
change - whole article about the surprising iformation that spies meet at
restaurants.

------
rasz
>Moran moved on from the spy world. Moran heads communications at the
Environmental Investigation Agency.

"EIA is a 501(c)(3) independent, international, non-profit advocacy
organization based in Washington, D.C.". 30 year old environmental non profit,
totally not _the_ perfect front organization for spy operations, right up
there with jet chartering business (Aero Contractors, Pegasus Technologies,
Tepper Aviation, etc).

------
walshemj
Interesting that one passed on SIS (the traditional tap on the shoulder by a
don)

I was surprised that the CIA will take dual nationals on as Officers.

~~~
seppin
> I was surprised that the CIA will take dual nationals on as Officers.

You keep your citizenship but cannot carry two passports.

------
ncmncm
The most essential skill of spycraft is extortion, not dining.

------
c3534l
When did "eatery" become an acceptable term for restaurant?

~~~
OJFord
I don't know that I've ever used it, but there are plenty of places to eat
that I wouldn't call a 'restaura t', and that's what I'd assume someone using
it was referring to (a d possibly including restaurants in a context such as
this).

Cafés, 'diners', crêperies/breakfast places, anywhere in a shopping
centre/'mall', that sort of thing.

~~~
c3534l
Wouldn't a cafe be a drinkery?

