
Could Russian submarines cut off the internet? - kostyk
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-34639148
======
Alupis
Kind of ridiculous to single out Russian attempts at fiddling with mass
communications, given both the US and UK's recent and ongoing attempts to do
just that.

~~~
johansch
There's a difference though. Compared to e.g. China/Russia the US have had
more practise and act in a smarter way.

Instead of blocking, they allow the traffic to flow, and then implement
surveillance. They have learned from silicon valley companies the value of
data.

(The "education" of the citizens is then done another way, but that's a whole
other story.)

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johansch
Related: a "meter-long" remotely controlled UAV with explosives was found near
the Russian underwater gas pipeline "Nord Stream" (Russia-Germany) just off
the swedish maritime border by the swedish armed forces last week.

The implicit assumption (made by me) is that the US (or perhaps UK on the
behalf of the US) planted it there just in case. It certainly wasn't Germany
or Russia...

[http://www.thelocal.se/20151107/explosive-sub-found-near-
rus...](http://www.thelocal.se/20151107/explosive-sub-found-near-russian-gas-
pipeline)

Side-note: This "ally" thing is odd. Germany and Sweden provides the US with
intelligence in exchange for intelligence and trade contracts. Germany spies
on Sweden. Sweden finds a threat that could threaten gas supply from Russia to
Germany and exposes it to the world. Sweden implements an internet
surveillance program aimed at domestic arabs but also russian internet traffic
flowing through Sweden, to trade with the US for intelligence/favors. US
plants a bomb in order to be able to kill critical energy supply to Germany.

~~~
wil421
Not everything is a US/UK conspiracy. In the grand scheme of things Sweden and
Russians relations is probably not at the top of their todo lists.

Why would the US want to do anything to Germany anyway? They are one of our
strongest allies in the region and house some of our largest military bases
outside of the US. The German politicians were publicly appalled at our spying
but I feel thats only a show for the public. Business will go on as usual.

~~~
johansch
Sweden isn't really an issue here. Only in discovering this UAV. This is about
Russia providing gas to Germany.

You can't imagine a future situation where Germany would have to choose
between alignment with the US or Russia, and short-term energy supply being a
factor?

Who else would have the both the capability and interest to place such a
UAV/remotely controlled explosion device there?

I would even say it would be incompetent of the US administration/military not
to prepare for situations like these.

~~~
eveningcoffee
Nord Stream has very huge strategical value. It allows to sell gas directly to
Germany while letting Poland and Ukraine to "starve". It is in my opinion the
enabler of crisis in Ukraine which possibility was obvious for me since the
Nord Stream was announced - the question was only the timing.

At the same time Nord Stream can used as an excuse to strengthen the Russian
military presence on the Baltic Sea. In this sense the discovery of a UAV is
strongly in favor of Russia.

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imglorp
The interesting thing about ocean cables is everyone knows where they are, and
they don't tend to move too often.

I'd be willing to bet every superpower has a remote cut box on each others'
cables, ready to go in the event of a digital war, kind of a mutually assured
silence.

------
mamon
One thing seems strange: author claims that burying cable one meter under the
bottom of the ocean will make it difficult for submarine to destroy it.
Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't they simply use some torpedo or missile
to accomplish that ? Some tactical nuclear bomb even, if cable is protected by
really thick casing. No more sophisticated equipment needed.

~~~
EA
Sand absorbs a lot of energy. 3-feet of sand will absorb a lot of energy. The
cables are already protected to absorb a lot of energy. A torpedo is only
going to move at 200 MPH.

~~~
mamon
Relevant news: [http://www.bbc.com/news/world-
europe-34797252](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34797252) Seems that
Russians are already working on new generation torpedo. It seems it would be
aimed more at oil and gas pipelines than internet cables, but who knows...

------
terminado
Because orbiting communication satellites are trivially vulnerable to secret
underwater sneak attacks via submarine.

~~~
johansch
What do you mean?

Satellites are either geostationary or not. If they are not geostationary you
need a network of them and complex ground equipment. If they are
geostationary, they incur a ping latency of a few hundred milliseconds making
them worthless for modern mass Internet usage. Either way, bandwidth is quite
limited compared to what is flowing through fibers today.

Also: I am pretty certain US, Russia and China by now are able to kill
satellites at will, geostationary or not.

~~~
slavik81
"The [2007 Chinese anti-satellite missile test] is the largest recorded
creation of space debris in history with at least 2,317 pieces of trackable
size (golf ball size and larger)."

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Chinese_anti-
satellite_mi...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Chinese_anti-
satellite_missile_test)

The US did their test in 1985. At this point, shooting down satellites is
easy, but it has big consequences. The more debris we create, the harder it is
to keep satellites up there.

~~~
Alupis
> The more debris we create, the harder it is to keep satellites up there

Or astronauts, space stations, deep space probes, etc...

Just ask George Clooney ;P

