
Why Aren’t American Teenagers Working Anymore? - JumpCrisscross
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-05/why-aren-t-american-teenagers-working-anymore
======
StevePerkins
I wonder why so many financial publications, who supposedly know a thing or
two about economics, sound so woefully ignorant when contemplating the
behavior of younger generations?

" _Millennials are buying fewer cars and houses. Does their 'culture' favor
non-ownership?_"

No... they have higher levels of student load debt than previous generations,
and lower income prospects due to stagnating wages. Almost everyone I know who
DOES get a high-paying job eventually winds up buying a car and house.

" _Fewer teenagers are working jobs. Are they more lazy?_ "

No... there are more unemployed adults these days, who are forced into the
restaurant and retail jobs traditionally filled by teens. As professionals in
the financial industry, surely you understand well enough that the official
"unemployment rate" does not reflect the true "labor participation" rate.

Is all of this _willful_ ignorance? Or are financial writers not researching
and thinking anymore?

~~~
bgun
The actual article does indeed address most if not all of the exact issues you
just raised, for example:

 _Why aren 't teens working?... They're being crowded out of the workforce by
older Americans, now working past 65 at the highest rates in more than 50
years. Immigrants are competing with teens for jobs... College-bound teens
aren't looking for work because the money doesn't go as far as it used to._

Perhaps the headline is asking a "willfully ignorant" question; but the reason
is to get you to click through to the article, which does seem to be trying to
put forth some theories.

~~~
Consultant32452
I'm surprised there's no mention of the minimum wage pricing teenagers out of
the market.

~~~
vilmosi
That's because the buying power of the minimum wage has been getting lower
over time, while teenage employment has been going down. It's not the reason
teenagers aren't working.

~~~
Consultant32452
A lot of these arguments about retirees taking minimum wage jobs and all that
is simply increased supply of labor which should push wages down. But they
can't possibly go down below the minimum wage. Remember, the minimum wage is
just the legal requirement that employers prejudice against the least
productive members of the work force. If minimum wage is $10/hr but your fair
market wage is $5/hr, you're unemployed.

------
tshibley
"Parents are pushing kids to volunteer and sign up for extracurricular
activities instead of working, to impress college admission counselors."

I think this is one of the reasons I see most often (I graduated from high
school 2 years ago). Many students think that taking a minimum wage job for
the summer won't do them any good, and their parents push them to believe that
"education is their job", so they opt for things outside of working to fill
their summers.

~~~
michaelchisari
Those students are right. I've never heard of a college admissions board that
saw working as a valid extracurricular.

I had to work at least a part time job from 15 on, and I was at a big
disadvantage to people who didn't have to work. I gained a lot from it, better
work ethic, an understanding of workplace professionalism, money management,
etc. But college would have much preferred I played a sport, was involved in
school clubs, or even volunteered.

So if college is in the plans, and a kid doesn't absolutely have to work, then
there is no reason for them to do so.

And then, of course, there's the economic reality that plenty of traditionally
"teenage" jobs have been taken over by 20 and 30-somethings (and even older)
who desperately need the work.

~~~
ryandrake
As someone who went to college in the early 90s, this just sounds so bizarre.
Have things changed this much? Nobody I knew gave a shit about any of this
stuff. We all had part time jobs to buy a video game now and then or a new
pair of shoes. I did even more work over the summer, and was able to buy my
first PC after 3 months of pretty much full time work. College was just a
matter of getting reasonably good grades in high school, applying to 10-20
colleges, and going to the one that accepts you. Done. None of this ridiculous
optimize your life along a single "what admissions boards want to see" metric.
I mean you kids are paying 10X now what it cost back then, _AND_ you're
jumping through all these silly hoops as well? Insanity.

~~~
michaelchisari
For the record, I graduated high school in 1997, and while I don't think
working was _actively_ seen as a disadvantage, it was a functional
disadvantage (less time for extracurriculars and studying), and college boards
didn't see working a part time job as any kind of life experience or
extracurricular.

I think it's only gotten much, much worse since then, though.

~~~
mixmastamyk
> college boards didn't see working a part time job as any kind of life
> experience or extracurricular.

So, so wrong. An honest job is what every kid needs. While not neglecting
their studies of course.

------
Mikeb85
Because high quality jobs for adult workers have disappeared, so those adult
workers are taking jobs that teenagers would have done in previous
generations. There's massive under-employment in most western countries at the
moment.

------
tmh79
Background: I worked ~20 hours a week at a restaurant/grocery/greenhouse from
age 15 to age 18, in addition to school, sports, and research.

When I have kids, they will not work jobs like bussing tables, or bagging
groceries. I would support them taking on entrepreneurial activities like
starting their own mowing/leaning/whatever business, but bagging groceries is
a waste of time if you don't need the resources. If I was able to do it over
again, I would do more to specialize in a skill set early on at the expense of
less menial labor at 6.50/hr. Time is the most expensive resource we have, and
the ROI on the current level of minimum wage jobs is little to none.

~~~
Declanomous
I think it is important to have one 'menial' job at one point in your life,
just to get some perspective. I think it staves off a lot of the attitudes
that make someone a poor employee (or employer).

There's a time and a place to tell someone that the work they want you to do
is not your job, but if you've worked in a true-entry level job you are far
more likely to have some perspective on the matter. Plus you have to
communicate with a wide variety of people in most of these jobs, which is a
really important skill that I think a lot of my well-off friends who never
worked before graduating college are missing.

Time is definitely our most important asset, but I think it's also possible to
try optimizing a bit too much. Not that I want my kids working in a steel mill
or a slaughterhouse as a janitor like my dad did when he was a kid. But I
think a menial job is pretty important for development.

------
Fezzik
I can't imagine high school without a part-time job during the school year and
full-time hours in the summer. I mean, I did AP and Honors courses, plus
soccer in the Fall and Winter and Track in the Spring, and worked at Dairy
Queen year-round (having a blast with my friends) to make some money and
migrate my way in to adulthood. I know many families were more well off than
my mom and I were, so maybe such work seems wasteful... but the experiences
from almost any work as a teenager seems invaluable: time
management/scheduling, earning your keep, learning how to interact with all
types of people (including managers who, often, you will butt-heads with
ideologically)... all things you simply cannot learn in school, or studying.

And, completely anecdotally, but measuring my friends it seems like the
earlier a person started working the more well-rounded and level-headed they
are today.

~~~
AdamN
Yeah, but having worked as a dishwasher in a restaurant means I wasn't doing
much else besides leaving school, getting to work, coming home smelling like
fish, showering at 11pm and getting up the next morning at 6:15. I guess it
gave me character but didn't do great for extra-curricular activities to put
on my college application.

------
abakker
Wanted: Minimum wage worked to open and close video store, nights and
weekends.

Requirements: 5 years experience with Customer facing roles and Point of Sale
systems. College degree preferred.

~~~
noonespecial
Teen: WTF is a "video store"?

It seems to have gone unmentioned that the internet up and ate a great many of
the jobs teens used to do.

------
legitster
I was lucky enough to get a fast-food job at the age of 16. I definitely feel
like it gave me an early head-start as a teenager. Extra income, more
responsibilities, I could afford to keep a car running. In college I got
slightly better jobs where my peers had to start at entry level.

Our work got an influx of teenage applicants once because the Carl Jr's down
the road was acquired by a corporate owner and they laid off everyone under 18
(apparently for liability reasons). We picked up a ton of great workers.

Part of the reason I feel is minimum wage. In my state, I started out at
$10.50ish with health benefits! (I did not have my own through my parents). As
a teenager, this was more than enough money for me, I would have gladly taken
less for more hours. But management always (rightly so) gave more hours to
older workers with more experience and who needed the money more.

If you think there is intrinsic value in teenagers working (which I do),
dependents should probably be allowed to work for less than minimum wage
(there are already such allowances for pre-teens or farm workers). I have to
imagine teen employment will fall to practically zero with some of the
proposed $15 an hour minimum wages (it's after all a "living wage", not a
dependent one). This may displace the more expensive adult workers, but we
also need a pipeline for younger people entering the workforce to gain
experience at a discounted rate, whatever that may be. Maybe I'm alone in
this.

~~~
WorldMaker
Could be the other thing too: if the minimum wage is high enough to be a
living wage it encourages teens that they too might be independent sooner
rather than later. That path to independence can certainly be quite motivating
and that "there was more than enough money for me" feeling can part of the
thrill.

------
dragonwriter
> Why Aren’t American Teenagers Working Anymore?

The article mentions a lot of possible factors, bit I think the best of two
are (both are mentioned):

* For teens from working class backgrounds that otherwise would work from need, adults (both seniors and underemployed younger adults) are doing the jobs they would have done, and

* For teens from more privileged backgrounds that would work not from need but for spending money and to help defray college expenses, the fact that the pay for the jobs they would do hasn't kept up with general (or, by an even larger margin, college cost) inflation means it's just not worth it.

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eli_gottlieb
Because employers prefer to hire from the abundant pool of adult workers who
need those jobs, I would think.

~~~
brockvond
yeah - Adults are better at almost any job and will care more lol.

------
moneytide1
I recommend the book "Folks, this Ain't Normal."

The author describes a time before child labor laws, where energetic teenagers
were a valuable asset on farms (before the onset of industrialization). As
children even, they worked and learned concepts and virtues that schools try
to teach, and they were exposed to enough bacteria and dirt during their
outdoor labor to establish strong immune systems early on.

It is appalling that a teenager can say that he or she is "bored" or get into
trouble in the late hours. There could be plenty to do around the family
property if parents knew how to live self-sufficiently using traditions
inherited from pre-industrialized generations.

~~~
tdb7893
Are you advocating that most families should farm a little?

~~~
logfromblammo
It doesn't need to be farming. If you want your kids to study hard and stay in
school, almost any low-paid job heavily reliant on manual labor will do.

First, you have your kid work that grueling and thankless job. Then you can
take them to your desk job, and show them your company's lowest-level job
postings.

 _Many_ of the people I know with really nice jobs have a story about _that
one job_ they worked before graduation that taught them the value of working
_smart_ rather than _hard_. Mine was on a shipping dock.

------
omegaworks
Because there are more seniors with few retirement prospects desperate for a
role with medical benefits and/or social security points:

[https://www.ssa.gov/planners/credits.html](https://www.ssa.gov/planners/credits.html)

It's another cruel way the system screws over teachers:

[https://financeforteachers.com/can-i-collect-trs-and-
social-...](https://financeforteachers.com/can-i-collect-trs-and-social-
security/)

------
GhiliaWeld
Teenager here! First of all like many have pointed out there are a lot of
older people with more experience filling up these traditional "teen" jobs, so
people my age can't get any. Second of all I've been experimenting with
investing in cryptocurrencies and I've been doing pretty well so I think I'll
focus on that this summer. Besides, I'm pretty sure Investing experience looks
more appealing than working at McDonald's for a summer on a resume.

~~~
reboog711
I can't imagine why I'd put investing experience on a resume...

What type of jobs do you think you'll be going after later in life?

------
orionblastar
They can earn more money panhandling or making Youtube videos and having a
patreon account for people to donate too. Plus they still have room and board
free with parents.

Why would they take a minimum wage job if there are nonjob ways to earn money
with passive income?

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notadoc
Just for fun, put an ad up and try hiring a teenager to mow a lawn..... good
luck!

------
pcsanwald
I wouldn't trade my time working as a busboy -> dishwasher -> line cook as a
teenager for anything. I definitely recognize it may just be a lot harder to
get these kinds of jobs these days as a young person.

------
bluedevil2k
Because they shouldn't be wasting their summers on a very low-paying job
(maybe $5 after taxes, since they're likely claimed as a dependent). They have
the rest of their lives to work.

------
Simulacra
I think all of the reasons listed by the article carry some weight. When I was
a teenager in the 90s my parents did not want me to get a job, and instead
focus on studying. When I finally landed that awesome job making chicken at
$4.75 (training wage) my colleagues were older, in their thirties and up,
white and African American. Returning to that same restaurant in 2015 I found
the majority of the employees appeared to be of Hispanic origin. So maybe it's
just a combination.

------
rdxm
dunno where this is coming from...my kids both went and got jobs immediately
after getting thier DL's on thier own. And they both have/had heavy academic
and extracurricular scheds.

they just wanted to make their own dough. both already have retirement
accounts running too...even the 16 year-old...we had bank accounts for them
starting in 6th grade and forced them to balance, etc...

get 'em going early then they get on autopilot. gotta get the good feedback
loop going asap...

------
galfarragem
The encouragement that american society used to make on teen work might have
been one pillar of their economical supremacy over Europe. Why? It' not
uncommon that europeans have first contact with real world during their mid
20s. This is disaster for entrepreneurship.

------
nthcolumn
Overwatch.

~~~
saint_fiasco
Not sure why this is downvoted. Cheap high-quality entertainment increases the
perceived value of leisure and the opportunity costs of working.

~~~
okreallywtf
I think it is perceived as a glib assertion that it is laziness or something
but I'm not sure thats the parents intention. Like you say, why would you want
to do menial, mindless and/or backbreaking work if you had lots of quality
entertainment and could possibly avoid it?

When I was growing up I at least got to do interesting outdoor work (yardwork,
carpentry, tiling, etc) and learned skills from other older skilled people,
but even then doing volunteer work would probably have been a better choice in
terms of college applications.

~~~
ue_
I was in school not long ago. I loved my summers, not because I was working,
but because I was just having fun. I thought, if I'm not going to have
holidays like this in future (after university), why the hell would I spend
them working? And I enjoyed myself with friends, doing my hobbies (programming
and learning Japanese) and travelling and of course, shooter games.

This coming summer I'll be doing a job (I'm at university), and while it is
appealing in some sense (I'm getting paid for it), I know what I'd rather be
doing.

I just don't understand why parents are asking their children to spend that
long time of summer to do things they don't want to. They're already given
homework, and school life is stressfull, especially when most of it is days
that last from 9am until 4pm with added homework and maybe learning an
instrument meanwhile.

I say let them do what they want, and they won't come out worse for it. I
think it is a very strong criticism that only "official" extracurricular
activities are looked upon favorably by the capitalists, and I suggest there
ought to be a shift in that situation. You don't have to start getting people
on the wage labour mill as soon as possible, and for me it's quite sad to
learn that it may be becoming the norm.

~~~
okreallywtf
I find it slightly amusing (and kind of sad since I don't wish any hardship on
anyone) that my parents always thought games were a waste of time and/or were
actually damaging, but my brother and I have turned out to be as or more well
rounded people than a lot of the other kids we grew up with. Most of them were
the kids of my parents friends (who you always find yourself compared to) who
did not play games. That is not to say I think I'm more successful or better
or anything, but a lot of the people that I grew up with had more "normal"
social habits (that usually included drinking, parties and drugs none of which
I'm necessarily against) but the end result was that a fair number had to drop
out of college due to alcohol and drug problems or something else and a
surprising number ended up back home or nearby not too many years after. I
can't help but feel like video games, while not necessarily preventing
alcohol/drug use can provide a more active outlet that can be social in and of
itself. Looking back I do wish I had diversified more (more volunteering, for
one) but given that I grew up in a really remote area without easy
transportation, gaming (especially online) was actually a pretty great outlet
and I ended up interacting with a lot of people I never would have otherwise.

My friends and I got together last weekend to lay about and play video games
(Paragon and L4D2 for what its worth) for the first time in a while (everyone
getting married and having kids etc) and I can still feel the slight
condemnation but given we're all stable, good job having members of society
nobody can really say anything about it anymore ;)

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anomie31
Maybe there'd be enough jobs if there weren't so many people with multiple.

------
brockvond
I'd rather deal with an adult who cares about their job and customer service
than some dead-eyed, gaping-mouthed, bovine-brained, fashion-concerned
teenager any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

