
2016 Retina MacBook Pro Caveats - lvh
https://www.lvh.io/posts/2016-rmbp-caveats.html
======
otterley
We bought a 15" 2016 Macbook Pro ("Retina" is redundant; there are no 2016
MBPs that lack a Retina display.) We also bought a LG 27UD88-W monitor to go
with it. (It's one of the few that has a USB-C input.)

I have to say, I'm really impressed by the single-cable solution. The monitor
charges the laptop (57W maximum, which is less than the Apple charger, but
"good enough"), and the laptop sends both video and USB peripheral connections
to the monitor, which acts as a USB 3.0 hub.

One cable. It's kind of amazing and magical if you think about it.

There are some rough edges, though:

(1) Sometimes the computer reports that it's not charging. Sometimes it does.
We don't know why just yet. We can always connect the Apple-supplied charger
though.

(2) When the display goes to sleep, it disconnects all the devices on the hub.
This is a problem for external disks, as the OS complains that it has been
detached without being ejected first. I hope LG fixes this in a future
firmware version.

(3) We can't use the Apple-supplied USB charging cable to connect the laptop
to the display. The connectors are the same, but.. it just doesn't work. As a
technical person, I understand why; but it's going to be unnecessarily
confusing to people if two cables that look alike don't act alike. This is
going to raise technical support costs greatly until all USB-C cables are
capable of all transports and functions and the old ones are phased out. Why
Apple didn't ship a fully-capable cable in the box is puzzling to me.

~~~
Siecje
Why doesn't the Apple-supplied USB charging cable work?

~~~
illumin8
It's for charging only. This seems to be a huge disadvantage to USB-c... you
have to buy different cables for different purposes, even though they have the
same physical connector.

Can you imagine if AC power had the same plug for both 110V and 220V? And you
just had to "guess" which one was the right one?

~~~
revelation
They do?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320)

That's a common problem with power supplies that require setting a hard switch
to choose between 110V and 220V.

~~~
throwanem
Which is why it's rare at best to encounter such power supplies in new
manufacture, and has been for quite some years now. Instead, they sense the
line voltage and configure themselves accordingly.

It's hard to see the profusion of semi- and incompatibilities permissible in
the USB-C connector as anything but a regression.

------
kaypro
I just got back from returning my 15" 2.6 i7 with Radeon 450. First time I've
returned an Apple product ever. The build quality of the machine is superb.
TouchID, display, keyboard and SSD are fantastic. There's something going on
with the GPU's... I'm putting my money on the Intel HD but the framerate is
extremely slow. Just scrolling a simple web page in Safari stutters
considerably. I tried using gfxCardStatus to just use the Radeon with the same
results. My 2013 MBP feels considerably faster. The trackpad misses clicks
just often enough to be frustrating. The touch bar is annoying. I don't get
it. Moving my fingers up to tap a button takes more effort than simply doing
the same function from the trackpad. Not being able to have a volume down
button in the control strip makes reducing the volume more time consuming. I
actually like the new keyboard but the clicks are very loud... annoyingly so.
Very jarring. It's really too bad since it's a well built machine. The form
factor is perfect. I think software updates will fix a lot of these issues but
all at once it's counter productive for me. I'll probably wait till a rev 2
model and update to a 2015 model for now. It's too bad you can't get a non
touchbar model with the faster CPU's as well. If you're on the fence I'd wait
a few months at least or grab a 2015 model.

~~~
tolger
Excellent, concise review. Thank you. There are so many compromises with this
machine, I am going to skip this generation.

------
mikeash
Not supporting DisplayPort with an adapter is just insane. Apple's new top-end
laptop is incompatible with the most common way to connect external monitors?

I've been willing to give Apple and the new MBP the benefit of the doubt on
this stuff, and in particular I don't mind that it needs dongles now if that
means we get universal USB-C adoption faster. But the dongles need to actually
exist and work now!

~~~
stormbrew
My understanding is that it's specifically the thunderbolt-2 adapter that
doesn't support further adapting to other alternate mode mechanisms. This
might be because of incompatibilities between TB2 and TB3/USB3.1 alternate
mode implementations?

It doesn't mean it can't do DP over a specific type-c to DP cable/dongle,
which presumably are or will be a thing (eg:
[https://store.google.com/product/usb_type_c_to_displayport_c...](https://store.google.com/product/usb_type_c_to_displayport_cable)).
The author appears to want to wait for docks that do both DP and power
delivery, if I understand correctly.

~~~
rayiner
There are USB-C to DisplayPort cables. You need some sort of converting cable
anyway--the old MBP had Mini DisplayPort and I've never seen a monitor with a
MiniDP input.

~~~
lvh
(Author here) The Dell P2515Q I have has both DisplayPort and mDP2 in and out
(for chaining).

~~~
compuguy
Do the new MacBook pros support display port chaining now?

~~~
ProZsolt
Older Macbook Pros also supported chining, but not the OS. It's working under
Windows.

------
Rezo
If you're used to the Mac's "force app to quit" Command-Option-Esc shortcut,
it won't work from the touchbar if the app is unresponsive:

[https://twitter.com/technosucks/status/800831482608484352](https://twitter.com/technosucks/status/800831482608484352)

"You might not be able to use the Esc button in the Touch Bar if the app
you're using becomes unresponsive." [https://support.apple.com/en-
ca/HT207358](https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT207358)

Fortunately you can still force the Mac to shut down with the Touch ID button
after it locks up.

~~~
adamio
"If you need to use Esc to force an app to close, you can switch to another
app and try Option-Command-Escape. You can also choose Apple menu > Force
Quit." [https://support.apple.com/en-
ca/HT207358](https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT207358)

~~~
diggan
Heh, that makes me think about Finder that is always open. What if Finder is
the only app you have open, and it hangs?

~~~
kilburn
Cmd+space (spotlight) -> calculator (or whatever) and then force-quit finder
:p

~~~
r00fus
It'd be nice if Apple had an app simply called Force Quit :)

~~~
matt4077
Click the apple in the top left corner -> Force Quit.

~~~
r00fus
Sometimes this simply doesn't work - it's bizarre but the apple menu is
actually part of the App that's running it.

------
MitjaBezensek
A few other problems I came across:

1\. Battery life is much lower than specified:
[http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/battery-life-
for-13-and-...](http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/battery-life-
for-13-and-15-macbook-pro.2015074/)

2\. Some users report graphic card problems:
[http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/pool-do-you-have-
graphic...](http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/pool-do-you-have-graphic-card-
issue-on-new-2016-15.2016743/)

Here is how it looks like: [http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/graphic-card-
freaks-out-...](http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/graphic-card-freaks-out-
with-brand-new-mbp-2016.2015545/)

3\. TouchBar graphics sometimes display on the screen instead of on the
TouchBar:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/5eap94/someones_touc...](https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/5eap94/someones_touchbar_just_moved_to_the_screen_and/)

~~~
Rezo
The 2015 13" Pro has a 74.9-watt-hour battery.

The 2016 13" non-Touch Bar Pro has a 54.5-watt-hour battery.

The 2016 13" Touch Bar Pro has a 49.2-watt-hour-battery!

The components in the 2016 models are more power efficient. But at some point
you'll run into physics.

Apple may claim the battery life is the same as before when watching a movie
(probably entirely HW accelerator offloaded by now), but if you're compiling
code all day I wouldn't expect the new laptop to match the previous battery
life based on the raw numbers alone.

~~~
Bud
Don't be too sure; total power consumption of the new Skylake CPUs is much
lower, as is power use by the display, etc.

~~~
Rezo
It really isn't. Base configuration 13" MBP specs:

2015: 2.7GHz dual-core Intel Core i5, Turbo Boost up to 3.1GHz, with 3MB
shared L3 cache: 28 W TDP [0]

2016 (Touch Bar): 2.9GHz dual-core Intel Core i5, Turbo Boost up to 3.3GHz,
with 4MB shared L3 cache: 28 W TDP [1]

Both chips use the same 14nm process, and there's no free lunch. The "refined"
14nm process for the Skylake chip is put towards a tiny frequency bump.

[0] [http://ark.intel.com/products/84985/Intel-
Core-i5-5257U-Proc...](http://ark.intel.com/products/84985/Intel-
Core-i5-5257U-Processor-3M-Cache-up-to-3_10-GHz)

[1] [http://ark.intel.com/products/91166/Intel-
Core-i5-6267U-Proc...](http://ark.intel.com/products/91166/Intel-
Core-i5-6267U-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-3_30-GHz)

------
Alex3917
The best thing I've seen so far is reports of the touchbar getting stuck on
the screen:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/5eap94/someones_touc...](https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/5eap94/someones_touchbar_just_moved_to_the_screen_and/)

------
Tom1971
While, over time, a lot of today's annoyances with the new Macabook's will
fade away, the lack of ESC key is a deal breaker for me.

I tried it at the Apple Store and it's pretty much unusable. (It had the seen
issue as the writer, apparently relying on the physical click to know whether
or not I had pressed it. In addition, I also mistyped it a lot. Maybe hack to
replace the whole touch bar as one single ESC key will do it...)

I've been told to remap the ESC to CAPS LOCK to vim usage, but I seem to be
one of a rare breed who uses the latter the way it was intended to be, so
that's a no go for me.

~~~
Caballera
The escape key is still there, it's on the Touch Bar, I have no issues with
using it, and I haven't had to re-map it. Also you can hit the 'fn' key and
the 'Function' bar and escape key will appear while using any other 'app' that
changes the Touch Bar.

~~~
51Cards
The prime issue is lack of tactile feedback. I wrote quite a bit about this in
a previous comment, in that we "touch type" because we get feedback from our
fingers. Implementing a "keyboard" interface that requires a change of visual
focus is not a good UI practice.

~~~
eridius
In your comment 25 days ago, you stated that the problem is the layout of the
Touch Bar changes regularly, therefore you need to look at it. But this
doesn't make sense for the Esc key, because the Esc key is always in the same
place on the Touch Bar (and is always available while you're typing).

~~~
51Cards
To me there are a couple problems. One is the changing layout as I mentioned
and the fact you have to shift focus constantly because you can't feel where
things are (esp since they change from app to app). Then secondly the lack of
feedback. I wouldn't mind the touch-bar so much if it hadn't replaced keys
that some people use constantly. As an add on above the keyboard, sure...
while I wouldn't be crazy about it it could be handy for some people. But half
the comments talk about how you can re-map keys to work around it... and that
to me spells UI downgrade. A fair percentage of people are perceiving this as
enough of a loss in functionality they are finding work arounds.

~~~
eridius
I'm willing to bet that most people complaining about it and talking about
remapping it haven't actually used the Touch Bar yet.

------
asragab
I really appreciated the no nonsense, non-editorialized description of his
experiences. Given the recent political climate, it is a nice change of pace.

The external monitor and wifi issues seem egregious, could these be OS related
issues?

~~~
illumin8
From what I've heard, many USB3 interfaces have been causing Wifi and
Bluetooth reception problems for a few years now. This is due to
electromagnetic interference in the 2.4ghz. spectrum.

I wouldn't expect a high-end Apple product to have this issue though; this is
the type of problem you expect from cheap beige box PCs.

~~~
mamon
How about using Wi-Fi in 5 GHz channel ? Should solve the issue, shouldn't it
?

~~~
illumin8
You're right, it should solve the issue, however, there are a couple things at
play:

1\. If you have a newer wifi AP that supports 5ghz, it might allow you to
create a separate SSID for 5ghz, which is great, because now you can specify
which network you want to connect to, and can choose the 5ghz. band to avoid
this interference. Some routers don't let you specify, and use the same SSID
for both bands, which means you can't really tell what you're connecting to.

2\. Unfortunately, 5ghz. has a shorter range, so it will be less reliable in
large houses, or where coverage is weak.

------
ChuckMcM
"Most dongles don't work" was what killed it for me, after reading several
reports that it was really hard to hook up anything reliably to the USB-C
ports given the churn in the dongle market I decided to skip this generation
and go for the next rev.

~~~
slantyyz
>> after reading several reports

We HN users are fortunate to be "in the know" about these issues, because we
keep up with this information.

Can you imagine how the out of the box experience would feel like for less-
informed early buyers of the new MBP who find out about these issues post
purchase?

I get the impression it's going to hurt the "everything just works" reputation
that Macs have had for the longest time.

~~~
matt4077
"Several" isn't really a reliable number. I know of three people with new
MBPs, and none of them are experiencing any of these issues.

------
Bytes
The problems with the new macbook "pro" seem to keep on growing. I am really
surprised that Apple did not find the connecting to external display issue in
internal testing.

~~~
dom0
I'm somewhat surprised by the whole touch bar thing, other manufacturers (e.g.
Lenovo on the X1) tried it before and use acceptance was miserable.

~~~
nilkn
I picked up a new MBP and I have to say I do like the Touch Bar. It's
certainly not a must-have, but Apple's implementation is pretty polished. My
favorite use is music/volume control. I can control music from both iTunes and
a buried YouTube Safari tab at the same time through the Touch Bar.

~~~
izacus
How is that different from pressing Fn + F keys before?

~~~
merb
Not sure why you were downvoted. Actually it works with Fn + F, too.

~~~
freehunter
Can you control two separate volume dials with the normal function keys?

~~~
merb
same as touch bar, if you switch the window they have the functionality of the
new window. (actually depends if the software supports it, else it will use
the old window)

------
adjkant
I still can't believe Magsafe is gone. I swear I save a Mac every month via
Magsafe and worry about when I have to upgrade in a few years. They better
release a clean version of this by then.

~~~
freehunter
I've actually had a problem with Magsafe. When I'm using my laptop on my lap,
my leg pushes up on the adapter, which causes it to disconnect very easily.
But I can lift my 13" 2015 rMBP right off the table by pulling straight out on
the adapter. Seriously, if you're careful enough the Magsafe charger can
support the entire weight of the laptop. Which means it's a great feature if I
_step_ on the cable (which pulls it downward) but if I trip on it and pull it
straight out, it will always, every single time, always pull my laptop right
off the table.

Which makes it worse than worthless, remembering that when I use it on my lap
it will constantly disconnect itself. I'm happy to see Magsafe go, I'm just
not thrilled that it's not being replaced with something better.

------
rayiner
The execution failures are just unacceptable for such an expensive product.
The Surface Book was half baked at launch, but at least Microsoft has the
excuse that Skylake was bleeding edge at that time. Apple is dealing with a
mature stack here.

------
perfmode
Right now is a great time to score a 2015 model. Doesn't make sense to buy a
new MacBook Pro until a 32 GB option is available imho.

~~~
TheDrizzle43
Before it was announced I was 100% sure going to grab a new MacBook Pro but
now I find myself looking at refurbished 2015 models.

~~~
Kiro
Why not the 2016 model without TouchBar?

~~~
r-s
Does not come in 15 inch.

~~~
fancy_pantser
Sure it does: [http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-
pro?product=MJLQ2L...](http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-
pro?product=MJLQ2LL/A&step=config)

~~~
citruspi
If you look at the product code in the link (MJLQ2LL) and check it against the
list of MacBook Pro models[0], you'll see that it's a 2015 model. There aren't
any 15" 2016 models without a touch bar.

[0]: [https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201300](https://support.apple.com/en-
us/HT201300)

~~~
fancy_pantser
I didn't realize that, thanks. Just ruined my Christmas gift to myself.

------
rocky1138
Wi-fi going down when you plug in an external device is completely
unacceptable.

~~~
kaizensoze
This isn't anything new. It's a well established fact that USB 3.0 interferes
with 2.4 Ghz Wi-Fi.

[http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2423604,00.asp](http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2423604,00.asp)

[https://www-ssl.intel.com/content/www/us/en/io/universal-ser...](https://www-
ssl.intel.com/content/www/us/en/io/universal-serial-bus/usb3-frequency-
interference-paper.html)

~~~
mconzen
The PC Mag link claims that this is alleviated on routers with shielded USB
3.0 ports while using shielded cables. Are the ports unshielded on the new
Macbooks, or are the people reporting the issue using unshielded cables? Is
Apple shipping these with unshielded cables?

------
teilo
Here is the interesting thing regarding Display Port: I am using an OWC
Thunderbolt 2 Dock. I have my dock hooked up to using the Apple Thunderbolt 3
to 2 adapter.

I _am_ able to use my external 27" just fine. I have a DisplayPort cable
plugged into the second Thunderbolt port on the dock. It's all working.

This is reminiscent of the way the Thunderbolt Display behaves: You cannot
plug a DisplayPort monitor directly into the Thunderbolt Display, but you
_can_ daisy-chain another Thunderbolt device to the Thunderbolt Display, and
then plug a DisplayPort cable into the Thunderbolt device on the end of the
chain, and then it works.

------
jedberg
The fact that I need a 3rd party adapter to connect my Apple branded monitor
to my Apple branded laptop is patently ridiculous.

~~~
freehunter
But I need an adapter to plug my Apple branded hockey puck mouse to my Apple
branded laptop, too... we're talking two different hardware generations.

Likely the reason they discontinued the Apple monitors is because they
wouldn't work with the new MacBook.

~~~
jedberg
There's a big difference between breaking compatability with a $39 mouse vs a
$1600 monitor that you could have bought a few months ago.

------
toodlebunions
This is sounding like the least appealing MacBook "Pro" ever made.

~~~
city41
And the iPhone 7 is the least interesting iPhone upgrade ever IMO. I'm pretty
disinterested in Apple right now.

------
eruditely
I'm sure you long-time mac users are a little disappointed with the current
generation of macbook pros, but as a long time ubuntu-linux user, I feel that
linux distro's have comprehensively fallen behind the times and am excited to
be with everyone else and have a macbook pro. It's like when I had an android
for a long time, and I actually thought androids were competitive, and then
when I switched to an iPhone 6 it was an incredible difference, all things
considered it was just a superior experience and phone. I had no idea that it
was _that_ much better, and was unsure how people ever talked about androids
vs iPhones like they were even, I'd had an android for 4 generations.

I'm assuming OSX vs linux distro's like ubuntu is the same thing. The sum of
the little things must make you a lot more productive. I cant wait to be
honest. I just need to decide, 13 inch vs 15.

When you do everything 1-off, like different phones than every one else,
different clothes, different hobbies, don't listen to mainstream music even if
it's fun you really get left behind in life & it's a lonely affair.

It was a nice change when one morning I woke up after a long time of running
my life in a different direction than every one else that I got to hit traffic
with every one else. "Oh, this is where every one is, thank god". I think it's
a bad idea to do everything 1-off for some minor advantage in your head.

------
scottlamb
Here are my caveats:

1\. The keyboard. Not the Touch Bar; the rest of the keyboard. There isn't
much travel and I'm afraid it will aggravate my RSI. I've tried pressing the
keys more gently, but sometimes I'm too gentle and miss keystrokes. Pressing
the right side of the caps lock key is unreliable even when I press it fairly
firmly. And the right shift key has gotten stuck once already. I'll give it
some more time to see if things improve, but RSI is a deal-breaker. I'm
considering returning the laptop.

2\. The battery life. It's nowhere near 10 hours when I'm doing development. I
haven't been keeping close track but I'd say less than 5 and less than
previous generations. I think they used a processor which is more efficient at
idle and took away a lot of battery to make it thinner. It's maybe not more
efficient when working, so the battery life is reduced if you use the
processor more heavily than they've anticipated.

3\. The Touch Bar. I'm sure I can make it work, but I would prefer to have a
physical escape key for vim, especially given that the caps lock key is
questionable too so that may be out as a substitute.

4\. That going from 1 TiB of storage to 2 TiB of storage would cost another
$800, and the SSD is not even replaceable later. I don't want to spend that
much, so I have 1 TiB that I'm already close to with photos likely to push it
over. I really wouldn't mind having a 512 MiB SSD and a 2 TiB hard drive, but
that's not an option. It wouldn't be as much of a problem if Apple Photos (or
some other inexpensive product) had good support for auto-selecting part of
the library to have on the SSD as a cache of full storage on a
network/external/cloud drive. (I.e., one library that I could open up and add
stuff to while disconnected, view some recent / starred / non-hidden photos
while disconnected.)

5\. 16 GiB of RAM rather than 32 GiB and not expandable. I gather this lost a
three-way battle with battery life and thickness/weight.

Most of these (#1, #2, #4, #5) are the negative consequences of Apple's
anorexia.

Having only USB-C ports isn't a problem for me. Losing MagSafe makes me a
little sad—it has saved laptops for me—but I like the idea of being able to
plug in just one cable to do everything. Those docks don't actually exist yet,
but they will soon. In the meantime, I have the included power adapter, a
USB-C to DisplayPort cable, and a portable USB-C to three-port USB-A + gigabit
Ethernet hub. It'll do.

~~~
eridius
#5 is Intel's fault. Apple going 32GiB would have a really hugely negative
impact on battery life.

~~~
scottlamb
Yeah, it's unfortunate Intel chose not to support LPDDR4 in Skylake, but Apple
still has some control here. If you want better battery life, put in a bigger
battery. Or at least the same size as the previous generation...

------
fit2rule
I'm using a mid-2014 rMBP now, and I love it - its a great machine, and I'm
seriously content with it.

But for work reasons, I'm upgrading to a new 2016 rMBP, and I'm a little
hesitant .. the reason is, I'm a vi user. So I figure I'll get used to the
difference in tactile response from the current ESC key to the Touchbar
experience .. eventually.

But what I've been thinking is that I'll just map CAPSLOCK to Escape, since I
hardly ever use Caps for anything important. This sort of amuses me a little,
since I've heard of folks doing this for years, when a real Escape key was
available anyway .. but they did it for ergonomics reasons. So, I'm hoping
I'll be able to live with that experience as a dedicated vi user.

What I'd like to know - for you guys who are vi users and have a 2016-rMBP in
front of you - is whether you think this is viable, or just not worth the
hassle - i.e., just use the Touchbar escape and see how it goes. What do you
think?

------
baus
The lack of DisplayPort support is significant. This requires buying new
monitors? Which monitors does the MBP support?

~~~
nicky0
It supports DisplayPort but not with a Thunderbolt 2 adapter

~~~
baus
Ok, so I'm confused. Why would you want to use DP with ThunderBolt 2? Is this
only for 4k monitors?

~~~
lvh
Thunderbolt normally supports multiple protocols over the same plug/cable. The
Thunderbolt 2 port on my old MBP is where you plug in the monitor. Thunderbolt
2 matters, because that comes with DisplayPort 1.2 support, which is necessary
for 4k@60Hz.

------
rebootthesystem
It is starting to feel like the "Pro" is actually more of a consumer toy for
gaming and messing with Facebook rather than a real professional machine.

I need to buy a new laptop today. For development, not to play games. The unix
underpinning of MacOS always made their machines attractive, expensive, but
attractive nonetheless.

I'll go visit the Apple store and see but it is starting to look like it'll be
a waste of time. It looks like I'll make a detour over to Best Buy and get one
of the high end HP laptops with 17 inch screen, full keyboard, lots of ports,
etc.

I can then install VMWare Workstation with Ubuntu Desktop. Add another couple
of VM with Ubuntu Server, run them all at once in a virtual network to
simulate application and DB servers and develop on Linux.

Done deal. Probably half the money. With what's left over I can go buy that
TIG welder I've been eyeballing.

~~~
xienze
Unless you absolutely need the laptop today, don't get something from BB.
They're really not known for selling quality PC laptops. Go online and get
something like an XPS or Thinkpad.

~~~
tolger
It depends on the laptop. I've seen Dell XPS-13 and XPS-15 on sale at BB. Both
of which are excellent.

------
cygned
The first time I plugged in a hub with power and HDMI, I got a kernel panic
and the MacBook's keyboard did not work after the first reboot. I was a bit
scared.

~~~
hackcrafter
Crap! Did it start working after the first time?

~~~
cygned
Yes, I had to reboot again and everything worked fine.

------
kbd
Some people have also reported hours less battery life than advertised.

~~~
nilkn
There are also issues with palm rejection on the supersized trackpads.

[https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/5e094c/users_are_rep...](https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/5e094c/users_are_reporting_trackpad_problems_on_their/)

------
Mister_Snuggles
I had a similar problem with failing WiFi on my mid-2010 MacBook Pro.

When I used a third-party MiniDisplayPort to DVI adapter, wireless would not
work. When I used the Apple adapter, it worked fine.

Interestingly enough, I found that under some circumstances the 3rd-party
adapter will work fine. My working theory is that it doesn't have as much
shielding as the Apple adapter and puts out just enough interference to
clobber my WiFi signal when I'm far enough away from the access point.

Maybe this is the same issue?

------
asd
I have a fully loaded 15" arriving on Monday. If I cannot connect it to my
beloved Dell P2715Q at 4K@60hz, I'm sending it back. This is clownstickery at
its finest.

~~~
lvh
Hopefully I can save you some frustration. If you got the TB2 dongle, it won't
work. Apple suggests you purchase a third party DisplayPort dongle. Make sure
it's DisplayPort 1.2 (that's what lets you do 4k@60Hz). No advice on what to
buy though; except check the reviews to make sure it works on the 2016 MBP!
(_NOT_ the MacBook! Compatibility with the MacBook means nothing.)

~~~
asd
Thanks. @sandipc above linked to this[1] monoprice cable, but it's out of
stock with no ETA. :( I'll keep looking.

[1]
[http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=12908](http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=12908)

~~~
cmenke
This one should work as well:
[https://store.google.com/product/usb_type_c_to_displayport_c...](https://store.google.com/product/usb_type_c_to_displayport_cable)

------
itbeho
Wifi problems on a MBP again? For fuck's sake... I'll probably make do with
what I have for a bit longer or find a 2015 refurb.

Or go all bohemian and spin up linux on a chromebook.

~~~
JoshGlazebrook
They actually reverted back to 2x2 MIMO for the wifi cards. The previous
generation 13" had 3x3 MIMO (antennas), now the new one has 2x2 MIMO. So less
theoretical maximum speed.

~~~
sn0v
Is there a benefit to reverting to 2x2?

------
awesomerobot
A big caveat I have is that the SSD is soldered directly to the logic board.

I've used a single Macbook for stretches of 4-5 years at points and I've had
to pull out the HD when the logic board has died... seems really sad that I'd
be tied to Apple's support in the event I need to access data to use on
another machine when previously it was something I could solve in 15 minutes.

------
thadk
I got my 15" MBP 2016 as one of the first as well. An important caveat when
setting up your system is not to clone 10.12.1 from another system and expect
no hiccups. I used an app called SuperDuper but this probably applies to
CarbonCopyCloner as well. Essentially the image that is on the new Macs seems
to have slightly custom drivers which did not make it into the 10.12.1
release.

Either use the official (and somewhat slow) Migration Assistant/Time Machine
or after you clone your drive from the old machine, make sure to use Recovery
Mode/Cmd-R and reinstall the operating system from the recovery partition. For
me, though it took several hours to install, it quietly retained all my data
and resolved all issues I had been seeing with stock macOS 10.12.1.

------
Elizer0x0309
Any serious developer worth his salt is not going to put up with the utter
shit the new MB(P) are.

I know they're catering to "media" types but for any engineer who also happens
to be a 10x and well rounded, doing art, music and other fields will feel
constrained.

Apple has left the golden middle ground a long time ago and is going after the
"media" types only. News flash: the margins in those youtubers-sectors are
very low, hence the spending will dry sooner rather then later.

I've been using the MBP pro circa 2012 and upgrading/hacking the hardware.

It's aging gracefully and next laptop will be a non-mbp which can run MacOs
through VM. Price parity allows much more horsepower and modularity.

New MBP, pretty but objectively silly.

~~~
CountSessine
_Apple has left the golden middle ground a long time ago and is going after
the "media" types only. News flash: the margins in those youtubers-sectors are
very low, hence the spending will dry sooner rather then later._

I don't think that this is a very good good laptop for media-youtuber types
either. Just watch Casey Neistat's review of the new rMBP. He really wants to
like it, but it's really clear from what he's saying that it's completely
unsuited to his needs. In particular, the loss of the SD card slot is going to
hurt anyone who uses pro camera equipment.

~~~
Elizer0x0309
Haha.

Well color me surprised.

Now I really don't know which target market they're trying to aim for, cause
where I'm standing it's a net miss, aside from the millennial generation which
isn't a bread winning one for the most part.

Maybe I'm not seeing their big picture, but as far as I'm concerned, A net
producer from technical to art, this machine is a fail.

~~~
CountSessine
I see no user's needs being a good subset of this machine's capabilities. It's
just impractical.

I have a 2012 rMBP and I'm thinking of upgrading to a refurb 2015 rMBP. I'd
like to upgrade to the last good generation of MBP; it might be a while before
Apple decides to start making good laptops again.

------
pyrophane
I have noticed that window resizing is a bit laggy on this machine, especially
in apps like iTunes. I wonder if that has to do with the decision to use
Intel's HD graphics instead of the Iris Pro on the 15. The Radeon probably
isn't going to get activated every time I need to resize a window with a few
graphics on it.

Also, I hope Apple fixes the palm rejection on the giant trackpad soon. I wind
up accidentally activating Siri quite a lot.

Otherwise, good machine.

------
api
This is starting to sound like the Windows Vista of Macs. :(

------
outworlder
This is a bad time for Apple to screw up. PC laptops are finally catching up
(HP Spectre, Dell XPS, Microsoft Surface, Razer Stealth, etc). Some are not
only delivering good performance and build quality, but features that Apple
doesn't even have (detachable Surface Book, 360 hinge, external GPUs). And at
a much lower price point.

I love OSX, but no OS is worth that much.

------
heisenbit
Ouch, does that mean my Thunderbolt display is of no use in the future? Any
idea how to continue to use it?

~~~
pilif
If it's a Thunderbolt display, it'll work.

If it's a Mini DisplayPort display (which uses the exact same connector as
Thunderbolt), then it won't work.

------
halilim
On a slightly unrelated note: aren't SSH keys meant to stay in the devices
they are created, and you need to create new keys for new devices? Of course
this is assuming that that SSH key was a private one.

------
huangc10
This is a short article/solution regarding the ESC key problem:
[http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Avoid_the_escape_key](http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Avoid_the_escape_key)

------
ezarowny
Never buy a first generation Apple product. I've personally learned that
lesson.

------
revelation
He has a brand new display (which in displays, is <5 years) and was going to
connect it through a triple chain of dongles and adapters?

Display <> DisplayPort-to-mDP2 <> TB 3 to 2 <> USB-C to TB 3 <> MacBook

What is going on?

~~~
benvds
I've been a mac user for 12 years, have my current retina macbook for 4 years,
consider myself a pro user and want to buy a new "mobile computer". I'm no
longer considering buying an apple macbook. OS X is great but with these
prices I can no longer validate it's value anymore and looking into buying an
xps.

~~~
JustSomeNobody
I would love to see Dell publish some XPS figures before and after the new MBP
announcement. I see a lot of people say they're considering one.

------
kimshibal
I have 6 dongles with my new MBP. It takes more space in my bag than MBP.

------
chmaynard
The signal-to-noise ratio on this thread is rapidly approaching zero. I read
every comment and learned almost nothing.

------
andrewfromx
fyi Control-C = Esc in vim. So the new mac without real esc key just means
leaning to do control-c vs. esc if u can't stand the virtual esc key.

~~~
cygned
<C-c> and <Esc> is not 100% the same because the former sends a signal and
other details.

Because I like to use <C-c> too, I have just remapped it to <Esc> in all
modes.

------
CountSessine
What a train-wreck.

------
ProAm
It just works...

------
TekMol
Jesus. My friends who use Apple computers always make fun of the "tech shit"
that "dos users" like me have to deal with. And how Apple "just works". (Yeah,
they say "Dos" when they mean "Linux". Because they think text on a screen
equals DOS, the old terminal based OS by Microsoft).

And now I read this:

System Integrity Protection (SIP) was disabled ... csrutil status ... boot
into the recovery mode... hold ⌘-R when booting ... open a terminal ...type
csrutil enable and reboot ... DisplayPort-to-mDP2 cable to connect to the
Thunderbolt 2 port ... get a Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 dongle ...
Thunderbolt 2 means 4 PCI Express 2.0 lanes with DisplayPort 1.2 ... Change
the monitor to MST mode ... recover via HDMI ... Apple Digital AV Adapter ...
HDMI instead of mDP2 ... third-party DisplayPort adapter ...

And so on and so on. "Just works"?

