
Countries where Americans can study at universities, in English, for free - wyclif
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/10/29/7-countries-where-americans-can-study-at-universities-in-english-for-free-or-almost-free/
======
wil421
Well in my state, Georgia, anyone can go to any public college in the state
for free with the Hope Scholarship.

Have a 3.0? Dont have any drug arrests or convictions? Legal resident of
Georgia/USA?

Then all of your tuition will be paid by the state unless you drop below a
3.0. The lottery is what funds this scholarship and its really great.

~~~
cafard
I'm glad to hear that Georgia provides the scholarship. It is a pity that the
state can't come up with a less regressive tax than the lottery.

~~~
brational
The demographic that buys lottery tickets is largely die-hard anti-tax red
that would never vote to fund education from raised taxes on anyone's
income... a bit ironic when you think about it.

~~~
freehunter
If that's true, it's not ironic. Buying a lottery ticket is a choice. Paying
taxes imposed on the entire population is _not_ a choice.

------
maaaats
Note that the grading systems in most European countries are very different
from the one in USA: We use the whole range. No "B is ok, A is good". Here A
is mostly excellent, and C is an acceptable grade to get. It's good to keep in
mind when researching our universities. So you don't get put off if the
acceptance grades are low or if the average grade is low.

It's weird going the other way (from Europe to USA). They told us we couldn't
continue the studies if we got below B-, and we were like "???".

~~~
quotient
I'd like to remark that there's a similar trend that seems to go on in high
schools and with college admissions. By all accounts, I've heard that it's not
too difficult to attain perfect high-school grades (save for some of the very
competitive high schools), whereas that's usually a _serious_ achievement in
European schools. There's a similar comparison for the AP vs. IB examinations.

------
yodsanklai
Concerning France:

> Public university programs charge only a small tuition fee of about 200
> dollars for most programs.

Public universities are indeed very cheap and they tend to offer more and more
English programs to attract foreign students. However, they're usually not
prestigious as there is very little selection to get in. The brightest
students usually follow a different path.

> Other, more elite institutions have adopted a model that requires students
> to pay fees that are based on the income of their parents.

I think they refer to business schools which are mainly private and more
expensive. However, the best scientific schools are public (and pretty much
free) but there are very specific admission conditions, and teaching is mostly
done in French.

~~~
S4M
This comment is very true, but I would like to add that if the public
Universities have quite a bad reputation for the first two or three years, the
level of the Msc (in France it's 5 years of University) is decent, and still
free.

------
gambiting
Bear in mind that positions in international rankings mean almost nothing, as
most of them are calculated by looking at the number of cross-linked papers
from a university to judge its final score. That immediately puts non-English
speaking universities at a huge disadvantage, and I would argue that top-level
universities of each country are at pretty much same level despite their
ranking positions.

~~~
ma2rten
_That immediately puts non-English speaking universities at a huge
disadvantage_

How so? I studied at University of Amsterdam, everyone spoke English at
graduate level and everyone published in English. Many faculty where not even
Dutch. I would expect the same from any international class university.

~~~
gambiting
>>and everyone published in English.

I really doubt that. I am sure we can both provide anecdotal evidence, but
there is no way 100% of papers are published in English. And you picked a very
specific example, because an overwhelming majority of Dutch people speak
English at a very good level.

------
portlander12345
So a tuition-free Masters in Mathematics in Germany sounds pretty intriguing.
Has anyone here studied in the German system as an expat? What was your
experience? Is it feasible?

~~~
x3ro
I can't speak for myself since I'm German, but e.g. at the university and
technical university in Hamburg there are lots of foreign students who seem to
enjoy themselves :) I do not have any hard numbers at hand, though.

~~~
Cyph0n
What are the living costs for a student couple in Germany? I'd really like to
learn German and want to get a Masters degree soon. I could work while
studying if I find a job.

~~~
kaybe
I live in a WG (a group rents a flat or a house and everyone gets a room,
common kitchen and bathroom) and spend around 600€/month including health
insurance (you need that, 70€/month, don't know about foreigners). Depending
on the city, it's harder or easier to live on that because rent can differ a
lot. (200-400€/room, I pay 250€.)

edit: To clarify - the university requires you to have health insurance, but
there is a special tariff for students. Students below 25 are mostly covered
by their parent's insurance here, after that you need to cover yourself.

~~~
captaindiego
As a foreigner in Germany I can confirm the 70€/month is for foreigners as
well (on a student visa)

------
scobar
I don't know about the other countries, but the author has left out some
important conditions about Brazil's universities. I checked on the two he
listed to confirm, but most public universities in Brazil have similar rules.

They are tuition free for students who are accepted based on a standardized
test given in Portuguese called the vestibular. This test, similar to the SAT
in the US, is the entire basis of admission. Students choose a major, then
take the vestibular. Public universities will have X slots available for each
major. If T = the total amount of students taking the test who chose the same
major, then you would be accepted if you scored better than (T-X) other
students of your same major. The article seems to imply you don't need to know
the native language to study there tuition free. In this case it's simply not
true.

The other way an English speaker could be permitted to study at those
universities is through an exchange program from a university where one is
likely already paying a tuition. Even then, exchange students are only
permitted to study for up to a year.

Last, the tuition may be free, but the dorm conditions in Brazilian
universities that have them are pretty dismal to my knowledge. Most students
live off campus, so room and board would likely still be a pretty big expense.

------
lumberjack
I'm very sceptical of this.

For example I just picked Lund University in Sweden. No it's not free. It's
$15K a year. [1] The University of Helsinki is indeed free though. [2]

In case of Germany, the entry requirements are quite hard. Not impossible but
hard enough that many Germans end up studying in neighbouring countries
because they cannot get in a German university for some courses were there is
competition.

Also If you go on course aggregation websites and filter for English you will
get like a hundred courses taught in English, but then you realise that they
are mostly humanities. It's much harder to find English taught natural science
BSc programmes.

1\. [http://www.lunduniversity.lu.se/lubas/i-uoh-lu-NGNAT-
FYSI/tu...](http://www.lunduniversity.lu.se/lubas/i-uoh-lu-NGNAT-FYSI/tuition)
2\.
[http://www.helsinki.fi/studying/fees_and_costs.shtml](http://www.helsinki.fi/studying/fees_and_costs.shtml)

~~~
Tombone5
The article explicitly mentions that only PhD studies are free in Sweden (for
non-EU citizens).

~~~
arnsholt
To say that PhD studies in Sweden (and the rest of the Nordics) are free is a
bit of a mdisnomer though. PhD students in the Nordics are bona fide paid
employees, and the salary is a perfectly de3cent public sector wage (that is,
more than enough to live on).

------
Joeri
If people are considering this, let me throw out another option: antwerp,
belgium.

Tuition isn't free, but affordable. Around 3000 euro per year for non-EU
students (subsidized through taxation). Admission requirements are not strict.
When i was studying CS we had a few foreign students and accomodations were
made for them so they could study in english. Living costs are reasonable,
lower than london, amsterdam or paris. The city itself is very international.
We have more nationalities living here than live in New York. Most people
speak english, and in fact i have a ukrainian coworker who isn't even
bothering to learn dutch because english is sufficient. You can be in
amsterdam or paris in two hours, and cheap travel to anywhere in europe is
available. The city has a rich history and culture. You can drink beer in bars
which are half a millenium old, and visit buildings which were centuries old
when columbus discovered the americas.

In fact, even if you don't come to study, come anyway, for a vacation :)

~~~
nojvek
Coming belgium this Jan. Excited!

~~~
raphaelj
Sweet. Where will you go?

There is a lot of Universities with a great student life en Belgium (Ghent,
Leuven, Louvain-la-Neuve, Liège...). Price are very low and a lot of programs
are starting to be taught in English.

------
alisa8181
Article is correct in general, though very wrong in details. Yes, you can
study (not for free) but cheap (for like 3000 dol. a year). If you want to
study for free you need to learn the language. If you learn the language,
there will be a special governmental scholarship granted to those American (or
any foriegn students).

Brazil has free education if you study in portuguese. There are much more
countries not mentioned that also have free education for foriegners.

Germany is very difficult country to study. Very compatative even for Germans.
The foriegn students will be accepted only after German. Admission to programs
is different from US and difficult.

------
jessaustin
TL;DR: Germany, Finland, France, Sweden, Norway, Slovenia, Brazil.

~~~
ingve
When it comes to Norway, be aware that the Government has proposed the
introduction of tuition fees for international students outside the EU / EEA
despite a unanimous Parliament that said no to this under a year ago. [0]

[0] [http://isu-norway.no/blog/](http://isu-norway.no/blog/)

~~~
vesinisa
Same goes for Finland, just today the government announced plans to introduce
4,000 €/year tuition fee for non-EU (EEA) citizens starting from 2016:
[http://yle.fi/uutiset/tuition_fees_planned_for_non-
eea_stude...](http://yle.fi/uutiset/tuition_fees_planned_for_non-
eea_students/7573518)

------
abhididdigi
I'm really interested in this. Especially Germany. Do any one of you have a
link handy for me to see the good Universities in Germany? Please? Thx

~~~
kaybe
Basically, all state universities have a good level of teaching, it doesn't
matter where you go on the undergrad level. Later, your field is important;
universities have different specializations. Some people prefer smaller
universities (more intimate teaching), others bigger universities (more
different lectures - more choice). If you only know English, it limits your
choices of course.

So start with the subject you want to study, or with the kind of city you want
to live in. Do you want to live in a big city or a small city? Do you prefer a
big university? What's your level - do you need general teaching or do you
want to get into specialities? In the first case, any university that offers
the course is fine, in the second, look closer.

------
pnathan
This is very interesting, as I expect my next or next+1 move to be seeking a
PhD in computer science. My wife and I are open to the idea of living in
Europe.

Does anyone care to comment on Germany or Scandinavia for computer science
programs at the PhD level?

------
bobajeff
So what are the requirements for these programs? Are there GPA averages,
background, personality requirements? Or can I just fly over there present my
GED and register for a semester?

~~~
somehnreader
German here, studied CS at 4 German universities.

No idea about your visa, but if you are enrolled somewhere that shouldn't be a
problem.

Application process: will vary widely, for many human sciences you can just
enroll (Sociology, History, Gender Studies, all that stuff). You might even be
able to just enroll for Business in some places.

For CS degrees sometimes you have to apply formally and show what projects you
have done, submit your grade sheet, sometimes interviews. For my M.Sc. I was
allowed to interview via Skype because I was abroad at the time. They gave me
proper coding and interview questions and grilled me for 45mins. Some proof of
A-Levels will be required.

Living costs: Will vary depending on where you go. Berlin will be dead cheap,
so will be many places in the former GDR, while southern cities like Munich or
Stuttgart will be more expensive. Hamburg is also fairly expensive. Nothing
like the Bay Area or NY though.

A very nice resource for German Universities is:
[http://ranking.zeit.de/che2014/en/](http://ranking.zeit.de/che2014/en/)

No idea about the other mentioned countries, but I was surprised that Scotland
didn't show up, but they might be only free for non-english EU citizens.

------
darkhorn
Not free but cheap, mostly founded by the USA; Middle East Technical
University. One of the best 100 universities in the world.

~~~
sampo
> _Middle East Technical University. One of the best 100 universities in the
> world._

According to which ranking?

Does not appear at top 500 in the Shanghai list ranking:
[http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU2014.html](http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU2014.html)

~~~
tzs
#85 on the Times Higher Education ranking [1].

#164 on the new US News international ranking [2].

Around #400 on the QS rankings [3].

[1] [http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-
ranki...](http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-
rankings/2014-15/world-ranking)

[2] [http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/local/us-news-
global-t...](http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/local/us-news-global-
top-500-universities/1409/)

[3] [http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-
uni...](http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-
rankings/2014#sorting=rank+region=71+country=134+faculty=+stars=false+search=)

------
jchendy
Canada could be a good option for many people. International tuition fees can
be competitive with in-state tuition at public US universities. There are also
funded masters degrees in some disciplines, which is extremely rare in the US.

~~~
3pt14159
My program was 22k/y to foreign students. And that was 10 years ago. Don't
forget that tuition is 75% subsided.

~~~
jchendy
Looks like you're right. My experience in a graduate program doesn't
extrapolate to undergrad. Just looked this up: international undergrad tuition
at UBC is about $24k and international graduate tuition is about $7.5k.

Edit: to further clarify, it appears that graduate rate is only for "research"
graduate programs. "Professional" programs can be much more.

------
odyssestudent
FREE is relative and you need to do the cost benefit analysis. The advantage
of professor connections of Columbia U. to Wall Street and consulting vs.
Stanford U to Silicon Valley MUST BE EMPHASIZED. However, who knows where your
journey will take you. 1 don't have kids, so HN are we 'related like family'?
2 rhetorical question 3 Go to a middle level college, borrow student debt and
4 BE A WAGE SLAVE FOR LIFE. BE A WAGE SLAVE FOR LIFE. 5 YOUR LIFE CHOICES,
IMHO

6 1.) middle level college - NO 7 2.) Stanford or Columbia U because they have
8 plenty of scholarships. 9 2b.) avoid Cooper Union, NYC. Although with 10
zero tuition for now, THEY ARE BANKRUPT.

11 3.)low level college, cheap community and 12 learn how to weld. Then, get a
job for 13 $200 thousand per year in the fracking 14 oil industry. Boss
chooses between a middle 15 level 'state college' and C grade at top college,
16 I PREFER THE top college.

17 [http://www.alternet.org/education/looking-
escape-](http://www.alternet.org/education/looking-escape-) 18 high-cost-
college-these-7-countries-will-educate-you-free 19 insert the missing
countries and the URL for the 20 calculator as to DETERMINE YOUR LIFE COURSE.

21 Oh, me? I chose #2 with very little student debt. 22 Thanks friends for
letting me doing the illegal 23 apt roomie thing at Columbia Engineering. 24
Perfect for me, as I was not as 'hard-core geek' 25 as M.I.T.

26 1.) Germany. the problem is that you must think in 27 Math AND GERMAN. No
exceptions. Key advantage is 28 the real deal the Chaos Club makes Defcon look
like wimps. 27 Math AND GERMAN. No exceptions. Key advantage is 28 the real
deal the Chaos Club makes Defcon look like wimps. 29 German practicality
places this as a higher choice.

30 2.)Finland. Some of the strangest friends I have ever known. 31 Lack of sun
and Vitamin D means most as well as you will be 32 depressed. Cheer up with
the better than Poland math skills. 33 Easy to get a job on Wall Street.

34 3.)Why avoid Poland? World War III ring side seat with Russia, 35 Poland,
Ukraine, etc.

36 4.)France. Spend most of the time eating and dating. Much more 37 woman
friendly and family friendly by MANY MEASURES. 38 Forget about manufacturing
expertise, but the cryptography/math 39 seems to rock.

40 5. Norway: We LOVE the freezing cold and time spent on oil rigs. 41 The
minature Germany, except for lack of good beer.

42 6. Slovenia: Skype and other software starts in Eastern Europe 43 or the
former USSR.

44 7. Sweden: Could be a one way trip to Sweden. Good for learning 45
communitarian and cooperative work process, which is not taught 46 in the USA.
47 this is not in order. mileage will vary greatly.

48 8.) Brazil. Untold wealth and you too can play anthropologist/ 49 miner in
the Amazon jungle. Assumes you live to tell the tale. 50 The sugar/ethanol
industry means they are an oil wealth producer. 51 More effective chemical
engineering than US ethanol 52 relying on 'king corn.' 53 9.)China. Third
world poverty country with billionaires. 54 Like Brazil, likely the best way
to become a billionaire, 55 unless you are a math genius. Teaching English
while doing school 56 could be an exercise in sleep deprivation. 57 Plenty of
entrepreneurs, unlike Germany. Due to the 'culture' 58 or German beer vs
Chinese 'stinky socks' mao-tai? 59 hey Asians, I am Asian. Please do not flame
me.

60 10.)Russia. Included for political incorrectness. Likely a 61 one-way
ticket, since Russia is on the present enemies lists. 62 But if you are into
nuclear engineering or natural gas pipelines, 63 for they are building the
world's largest ...

64 11.) Florida, listed as 'separate country' Do the work program 65 at the
yacht club and get a backer for the Donut franchise. 66 Donut franchise
creates millionaires (for select few)

82 12.) Gaming the system? Women who got some money apply to Barnard 83
College. Major in basket weaving or physical education. 84 Take all the
worthwhile courses like business, egineering at 85 Colubmia University, which
cross lists courses.

86 After all you want a great experience and REAL education, 87 not a fake
piece of paper, right HN? 88 bon voyage from old man Odysseus.

------
pitt1980
T

------
company
Is America one of them because if you go to any state school (better than most
schools in the rest of the world) and you dont have enough income you pretty
much get a full ride + stipend.

~~~
cwal37
That's simply not true. I'm the oldest of 6 kids. Plenty of state school
attendance between myself and my siblings, and neither us nor our parents were
ever able to just pay for school each year.

We've all gotten the best local scholarship from our high school so far (4/4),
most of us got additional scholarships, and also some aid from the school.

All of us have had to take out loans.

EDIT: Going a bit further, I went to school in-state, and the semester I spent
abroad in a world class city was cheaper than a semester staying in central
Illinois.

~~~
theklub
All depends where you are. I know plenty of kids that get paid to go to
community college using various programs.

~~~
mhurron
You already know this but University and Community College are not the same
thing, and they don't offer the same things.

Even throwing that out as a valid alternative simply continues the position of
only those who have money are worthy of getting knowledge.

~~~
Amezarak
You can go to a community college for two years and then transfer to a four-
year university, which will generally save substantial amounts of money.

~~~
moron4hire
This is actually a bit of a boondoggle, because your university will either
not recognize your community college credits, or they will have their own
requirements likely to be incompatible with the credits you took at community
college, leaving those first two years basically wasted. So you get to pay for
2 years at a community college, then 4 years at a university. That's not
saving money.

Hell, it might not even work to transfer from one university to another! I
transferred after 2 years at a satellite campus of Penn State (where the
curriculum is identical to the main campus) to a state school, stayed in
Computer Science, and had to cram 4 years of CS at that school into 3 years
just to be able to cut some of my losses because apparently taking intro to CS
at a school that does it in C means you have to take it over again in a school
that does it in Java.

~~~
Amezarak
> This is actually a bit of a boondoggle, because your university will either
> not recognize your community college credits, or they will have their own
> requirements likely to be incompatible with the credits you took at
> community college, leaving those first two years basically wasted.

Well, you certainly can't do it willy-nilly - you need to have a idea of where
you're going after community college and what your major is. Generally, most
community colleges work with local universities to ensure that their programs
will transfer wholesale _if you take the prescribed courses_ , which do not
necessarily match up with what the community college recommends for other
students.

I have indeed heard a lot of horror stories about transferring credits in
general between universities or colleges - if the institutions don't have a
relationship that keeps transfer students in mind it seems you're pretty much
boned.

I did this, following community college direction, and all my courses
transferred and I wasn't set back at all, though I was highly front-loaded on
general education rather than CS-specific courses. At the time community
college tuition and fees was $800/semester, while university tuition and fees
was $5000/semester. That would have been a substantial savings! As it was, I
really lost money, because I would have qualified for a full scholarship to my
university academically anyway, but I lost it since transferred in and ended
up paying the next three years (one year of grad school) out of my minimum-
wage-earning pocket.

~~~
VLM
Another way to work it is CLEP tests. If they don't accept a transfer credit
for ... american history or whatever, but you took the class, and they do
accept CLEP tests and those aren't terribly hard... Note there are exam fees
and transfer fees to consider, usually nominal.

My personal experience at a couple schools is the smaller the school the more
often exceptions will be granted. Or maybe rephrased across all sizes of
school the (someone) will grant 10 exceptions per year and maybe 1% of
students will try to get an exception, which is awesome odds if its a 500
person private college, not so awesome odds at a larger 5K person school. So
even if on paper, calculus won't transfer, if you make a bit of a pest of
yourself the dean or dept chair will eventually sign off. Also you can game
the system, OK you won't accept my calculus transfer credits, very well, I
will get instructor permission to take diffeqs without pre-reqs and when I
pass diffeqs I will petition the dept head yet again for calc credit.

