
A take on some of the criticisms being levelled at the new MacBook Pro models - binaryapparatus
https://9to5mac.com/2016/10/31/macbook-pro-diary-opinion-criticisms/
======
dcole2929
I think the simplest explanation here is that where previously the MacBookPro
was a device for professionals with Mass Market appeal, it is now a device for
mass market that hasn't quite lost the professional price. When your company
has catered so heavily to one demographic over the years it's more than a bit
disingenuous to use the same product name to sale vastly under suited machines
to those individuals. The new MacbookPros are clearly not going to work in a
lot of pro use style environments. It's fair to argue that most people don't
plug anything in but power, and that 16gb of memory is already overkill but
I'd argue that's what the Air and non pro lineup are for. The pro moniker has
meant something for the past 15+ years, and these machines do not honor that.
If Apple isn't in the business of making machines for developer and serious
creatives that's fine but they need to do a better job communicating that.

Also as a side note the new iPhone not coming with a cable is just bad.
Directly connecting the phone to the computer remains the easiest way to
transfer content and the only real way to reset the device in certain
situations. Just complete failure to not have that included.

~~~
itsdrewmiller
People keep saying this "for professionals" thing, but what about the previous
generation of Pros was so different compared to this new one? The 13" still
only had integrated graphics and a dual core cpu. The 15" still only had the
option for a kind of bad discrete graphics cards, and the more-or-less top of
the line intel laptop chip. Other than 32gb ram, I'm not sure what they could
have done here to satisfy "professionals" on the specs.

To me the reason these are Pro devices is they use top of the line materials
and manufacturing techniques to make a powerful and portable device that
basically lasts forever in computer years. Nothing so far has led me to
believe the new MBPs will fail at this. And very little suggests PCs are
competitive on this dimension yet.

~~~
FireBeyond
Better GPU? I wonder how the 13" will fare when hooked up to the LG 5K screen
coming out in December.

~~~
pyrophane
I wondered about this as well, since I have an (I think) early 2015 13" and
notice some slowness when using the display scaling feature or connecting it
to an external 4k monitor.

Ars mentions this:

> It’s also much more feasible to use the scaling modes with current GPUs than
> it was with 2012’s GPUs, which were prone to dropping frames even at lower
> resolutions. I noticed no slowdown or jerkiness whatsoever in 1440×900 or
> 1680×1050 mode on the new Pro—you don’t need to worry about performance, so
> just pick the mode that treats your eyeballs the best.

Doesn't address 5K, but at least seems promising in terms of the ability of
the new Iris chips to drive the display at higher resolutions. Hopefully 5k
won't be an issue, and Apple is specifically advertising it as supported.

My gut, however, says that if you want to run 5k without any noticeable
slowness, you'll need the 15.

------
whiskers
I have a new Macbook Pro on order, I'm excited to try out TouchBar, I hope it
hangs around and isn't just a gimmick that falls by the way side.

The price is high and I'm surprised they pushed it that far (being in the UK
it's even worse since at the same time they corrected for the USD > GBP
exchange rate changes) but I'm also not hugely price sensitive. I just like a
robust, light, laptop that works.

I use Windows, macOS, and Linux daily and while I'm comfortable with all of
them I'd never choose anything else for a laptop (equally I never use macOS in
a desktop setup).

macOS feels, to me, like an operating system designed for laptops. The power
management is excellent, the hibernation is robust, the screen (on the Macbook
Pro line at least) is high quality and crucially the OS is well optimised for
a high DPI display.

I get the feeling there is some sort of internet/blog drama war going on here,
it just doesn't seem to warrant the response it's getting.

~~~
Someone1234
Legitimate question: How much time right now do you spend staring down at your
keyboard as opposed to up at the screen? How do you think looking down at the
TouchBar will impact your productivity?

~~~
whiskers
Perfectly fair question! I touch type, so basically never. But I'm open to
seeing what possibilities it brings. :-)

I mostly use Sublime Text, Slack, Google Docs, and the terminal. That pretty
much covers everything I need to achieve. I appreciate I'm a special snowflake
and other people have other requirements.

Disclaimer: I only ever use the function keys for display brightness, volume,
etc. They are just not part of my routine keyboard usage.

------
Moto7451
The analysis here pretty much echoes my own thoughts.

Computers are becoming closer to appliances as time moves forward and "we" are
not the target market. A lot of the chatter here has been about how Apple has
"forgotten about us", developers/power users. The same outcry happened when
Apple moved away from catering to video professionals. It doesn't seem like
that really hurt their sales.

I know more people who own Apple products that are not power users. They buy
their Apple products to read email, take care of their photo, music, and movie
needs, and maybe do some homework. Being light, sleek, and fast enough is more
important than having every port under the sun with the absolute newest CPU
with the absolute maximum memory. I feel pretty confident that Apple is
chasing their main user base.

~~~
nolite
I can pretty much guarantee that that segment you mentioned, doesn't need a
$3000 computer to read email and do homework... And as much as they appreciate
light, sleek, and fast enough, they'll appreciate keeping money in their bank
accounts a bit more..

~~~
JTon
True. But that segment does care about aesthetics and build quality; which is
arguably what they understand most about their Apple machine. They also tend
to care about their social projection. As long as Apple remains king in those
areas, they can continue to charge the prices they do. Anecdotally, every
Apple user I talk to says agrees their machine is expensive but also says it's
worth the price.

~~~
dcole2929
That's the entire point of product lines. One should buy the air or regular
macbook if they don't need the beefier hardware of the pro.

~~~
rys
Except those machines are (arguably) full of compromises in today's market. I
don't feel the same personally, but I get the general impression that if they
kept each product line healthy and active, then the differences between each
line wouldn't be so stark at any given point in time.

For example the MacBook Air would be fantastic with a Retina display, but it's
a tough sell without one in 2016.

~~~
cwyers
But Apple could have upgraded the Airs.

------
merb
The highest price of the 15" MacBook Pro 2013 was 2300 € with a 512 GB SSD,
2,3 GHz Intel Core i7, 16 GB Memory and a Nvidia Whatever Card. Basically I
even added a 100 Euro/140USD extra Storage with 256 GB to fit my needs
([https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WGARJGU/](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WGARJGU/)).

Now the cheapest model with 512 GB SSD would cost 2500 € without a Extra Slot,
which would make it 200 € pricier without taking inflation into account but
which would only be 20€ - 40€ in Germany and I forgot that it won't have a
dedicated graphics card which the 2013er had for a smaller price. (And not
taking into Account that SSD prices are dropping) Actually even their
additional option do suggest that "Developers" are not their target. You can
preinstall Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro, you couldn't pre install that on the
2013er and now you can even upgrade your dedicated graphics card memory, so
that makes it even a bigger target for Designers, Movie specialists etc.

Just not useful for developers, since they will probably need more dongles
than just one, I can count myself at least buying 6-7 of them.

~~~
aq3cn
You are forgetting that people like to buy Apple product for status symbol.
Like $10,000 gold Apple Watch. It works same as $400 watch but along with that
it also work as a good reminder of your wealth. Apple products are not for
poor folks and it has been made clear several time.

~~~
merb
price is not a problem, but getting worse and having a higher price is bad.
Also I actually used the function key, the SD slot and need at least one USB
slot. and there aren't many USB-C docks available so keeping my old
Thunderbolt dock would be great, but that is possible by buying another Dongle
for 50 Euro
[http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMEL2AM/A/thunderbolt-3-us...](http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMEL2AM/A/thunderbolt-3-usb-
c-to-thunderbolt-2-adapter)

So my overall sum would be at least 3000 € to have at least 756 GB storage 16
GB memory enough Dongle's and a dedicated graphics card. For the 2013er
version we actually had a bill of 2600 Euro, but we also bought a dock,
additional storage and a additional charger. If Apple would actually provide
enough value to satisfy the price increase, i would say that it's fine, but
they didn't they even made it pricier and removed stuff that I actually need
to pay more for Accessoires. I'm actually really really happy with my late
2013 15" but I probably need to wait till for the new one till USB-c is more
common to satisfy the additional price and I basically never need the touch
bar, I don't see any value in it. I mean contextual bases switching is
nonsense. I want to stop the music without having iTunes open.

~~~
vetinari
Actually price is starting to be a problem, for businesses in some EU
countries.

We have a tax law, that exactly specifies what you can expense as a tax-
admitted OPEX during a year, and what you must depreciate over several years
as CAPEX. For laptops, the amount is below 1700 EUR (without VAT, so that
makes it 2040 EUR with 20% VAT) and the duration of depreciation is 4 years.

No way most businesses are going do depreciate laptops for 4 years, unless
there's a very pressing business need. The recent 200 EUR price hike severely
limits the useful configurations available.

------
gnicholas
> You do have to buy a new cable, yes, but you don’t need any clunky adapters
> [to plugin in an iPhone 7 to a new MBP]

I think the semantic distinction he's trying to make is that a new cable is a
replacement for the old cable, and that you don't need to carry around a new
thing in addition to your charge cable.

But for most people, we'll now need to carry around two types of iPhone
cables: one for use with our shiny new MBPs, and one for use everywhere else.
My wall chargers? USB-A. Every charger in a hotel room, coffee shop, or
airport? USB-A.

So while it might be possible to buy a new cable, it would actually be easier
(and five bucks cheaper!) to buy an adapter because it's smaller than a cable,
and multi-purpose.

~~~
acomjean
Not to mention the millions of existing devices that use USB-A style cables.

I very much doubt that over the next couple years you'll see a mass migration
to USB-C cabling. Every device you buy for this thing (printer, hard drive,
usb stick, card reader....), you'll now have to buy an adapter.

Maybe in 3 years it won't be a problem, but I doubt it.

I think part of the issue is we're being told this is one connector "To Rule
them All" to this machine. There are only 2 types of ports and one is a
headphone jack. I think most of us would love that in an ideal world, but this
world isn't.

~~~
matt-attack
It's taken 15 years to get to the point where USB is simply everywhere (cars,
airports, chargers for random $20 quad-copters from Fry's, keyboard/mouse
connections on servers, etc). And it's kinda nice right now. I'm better _much_
more than three years to get to this point again with USB-C. I'm claiming it
cannot be worth it. I'm aware of the advantages of USB-C, but we're so
extremely invested in the USB-A ecosystem...

------
jakobegger
One of those new Macbook Pros, combined with that 5k LG display, would be my
dream setup. Plug in a single cable, and you're connected to power, keyboard,
display, network & mouse.

I don't use VMs, so 16GB are enough for my development needs (thanks to
compressed Memory I seem to rarely fill up my RAM anymore). CPU performance
has never been an issue for me.

Since I carry my Macbook Pro with me every day, and I often use it on public
transport, I appreciate low weight & long battery life.

One thing I'd really like would be a built-in 3G/LTE modem because connecting
to public Wifi or personal hotspot seems like an unnecesary hassle -- I'd like
to have my Mac be always online without any manual intervention.

Yes, I'd probably need to get a new cable for my keyboard, but at least USB-C
is a standard that everyone agrees is the future!

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
> Plug in a single cable, and you're connected to power, keyboard, display,
> network & mouse.

I suppose this might be a “feature” of the 12″ MacBook. Since there's only one
port, it forces you to use a single-cable setup, and creates a market for
accessories that fit this use case, which will also work with the MacBook Pro.

------
TazeTSchnitzel
Regarding the ports, I think it's worth pointing out that the specific set
Apple is offering is the most powerful possible. Inconvenient at present,
perhaps, but consider that a USB Type-A port can't do USB 3.1 10Gbps, can't do
Thunderbolt, and can't charge the machine.

USB-C, on the other hand, can do all of these. By having four of them, the
laptop is maximally versatile (USB, Thunderbolt, DisplayPort, power input,
configure as you like) and offers maximum peak I/O bandwidth.

Keeping one of the older ports would be more immediately convenient (no need
for an adapter), but would mean a less powerful machine overall if that means
sacrificing a USB-C port.

The lack of an SD card slot is sad, though. Losing MagSafe is maybe a shame,
too, but you do gain a standardised port (so one companies other than Apple
can make chargers for), a power cable detachable from the brick, and the
ability to connect it to either side of the machine.

I guess the best way to describe the port configuration is “far-sighted”. It's
extremely future-proof and capable, and will be great once USB-C is
everywhere, but it's painful right now.

~~~
spacehacker
MacSafe is probably also not as effective as it was advertised. I had a
situations where the cord dragged the MacBook in the opposite direction of the
MagSafe port and it almost fell of the table, and conversely I cannot remember
having a situation where the plug saved my MacBook in 5 years. One needs to be
very careful either way.

Fortunately, I am not a photographer. I can imagine that they will miss the SD
slot.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
Modern MacBooks, with their aluminum unibody design, are pretty sturdy things
in any case.

------
sulam
I agree with most of this, but the dongle thing is pretty silly and he does a
bad job of covering it. As a developer I need:

* a thunderbolt 2 dongle for my external monitor

* a lightning dongle for my phone (not for backups, for dev work)

* a usb dongle for my mouse (the trackpad is great for casual use, but a real mouse is still far more productive -- and I hate bluetooth mice with a passion due to recharging hassles and the fact that after so many years they still haven't completely solved the interference issue)

* a second usb dongle for my video conferencing USB headphones

Keep in mind I bought one of these things the second the site opened up, but I
_still_ had a moment of "oh shit, yeah, I need to buy a lot of dongles!"

If I could have I would also have bought something that lets me use the 4
power bricks I already have with the new box. Not looking forward to having to
buy a few extra of those.

~~~
r00fus
How many of these could be resolved with a really decent USB-C hub? Is there
none that currently exists?

~~~
tomwilson
[https://www.amazon.com/Satechi-Aluminum-Multi-Port-
Adapter-E...](https://www.amazon.com/Satechi-Aluminum-Multi-Port-Adapter-
Ethernet/dp/B01FWT7MEK/ref=cm_wl_huc_item)

------
qwrusz
People seem to forget there are a lot of smart people working at Apple on the
business side who know what they are doing.

 _Apple has calculated how many customers will be upset, lost, indifferent and
gained due to various product decisions._

Apple is not perfect or flop-proof, but they must make product decisions.
These decisions, whether short term or long term, consider customers,
competition and technology trends. Every decision has benefits and costs.

I agree Apple may have lost its way a bit and taken too far the old Steve
Jobs' approach of "don't ask the customer what they want, they don't know, a
company has to show them what they will want".

If you have decided not to upgrade to the new MBP because of the price or lack
of ports. If you are going to buy a non-Apple laptop next time you do need to
upgrade. Apple already knows this, you/we are statistics, and while they want
customers to stay, they know a certain % of customers will not.

The removal of the headphone jack on the iphone went through the same
calculations.

Still worth voicing our opinions, Apple listens as does the competition.
Someone will offer what enough people want.

------
CalChris
I just plugged my iPhone SE into my 2014 MBP to charge it while I'm also
charging my MBP. Yeah, I do this frequently.

Offering USB-C and USB-A would have been a safe move. I think Schiller said
*we don't design for price, we design for the experience". This is a bad
experience.

Removing the chime seems like a pointless slap. Again, experience.

I do like having the T1 Security Enclave. We'll see about the function keys
but that'll probably turn out pretty good.

16GB DRAM cap is really low, especially when prices got kicked up. Battery
charge isn't great since they went with thin. Again, bad experience.

Lastly, I really don't want a thinner MBP. That is the Air which seems to have
died. I want a powerful MBP because the P in MBP stands for Pro.

------
uptown
I think part of the problem is they capped the RAM at 16gb and many buyers of
these devices expect to use them for 4-5 years. It's questionable whether 16gb
will be suitable in 2021. Also - raising the price and taking away ports
creates this vacuum just asking for opinions -- and since they're not
shippping for a couple more weeks - there's no way to physically see how big
an impact these changes will have - so it's fair to be skeptical of something
that seems disruptive in a bad way.

------
pyrophane
The pricing keeps getting brought up. I understand the prices have gone up
especially for some non-US buyers, but for those in the US, where are you
seeing the hit? I might be insulated from this because I usually opt for the
high-end 15", and from what I can remember the price on that hasn't changed.
Is it the 13" models where the price has gone up?

------
Randgalt
The 16GB limit is the real issue for me personally. There are plenty of
Windows/Unix laptops that can do 32GB or more so all the excuses I've been
hearing are ludicrous.

~~~
aq3cn
[http://superuser.com/questions/40113/does-installing-
larger-...](http://superuser.com/questions/40113/does-installing-larger-ram-
means-consuming-more-energy)

Increased power consumption with higher RAM may be true.

~~~
sliken
A bit more sure. Although generally power scales mostly with the number of
chips (or number of dimms). The graph mentions SDR, DDR, and DDR2 for a factor
of 6 decrease in watts per GB.

Presumably DDR3 and more important DDR3L have continues to improve the
watts/GB.

Generally the CPU/GPU and LCD are the leading consumers of power on laptops.
LCDs get somewhat warm, but have a large surface to dissipate heat from. CPUs
on the other hand often need active cooling, where dimms (generally) do not.

Seems unlikely compared to a 28 Watt CPU and a 500 nit 13.3" display that the
16 -> 32GB upgrade would be particularly noticeable. Especially when apple
claims that the low end and high end models have the same battery life,
despite the low end model having a 10% larger battery and lower power CPU,
GPU, less ports, and no touch panel.

