
App Academy is an intensive web development course in San Francisco - ruggeri
http://appacademy.io
======
hnriot
I recommended this class to a friend of mine, she applied, but the day of
acceptance came and went and she never even got a rejection email. I emailed
Ned and never heard back either. It seems that all they managed to do was add
her to their mailing list. So I cannot recommend them anymore for their way of
dealing with applicants. Simply not responding is rude and unprofessional.

~~~
CesareBorgia
This fell through the cracks. It's our fault: it's our responsibility to keep
track of applications.

If you're willing to give us a second chance, I'd be happy to port over your
friend's application. You can reach me at kush@appacademy.io.

~~~
hnriot
Thank you, I appreciate it, I have passed this message on.

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ethan_t
This should have been an ASK HN question: But I am wondering how a curriculum
like this could possible place a candidate into Apple, eBay, Twilio, or Box? I
thought the interview process for those companies involve low-level, tough
algorithm/data structure problems, which requires an intensive college
education or participation in TopCoder, CoderChef... -- not just how many
shiny toys you can play with (iOS, HTML, JS, CSS, ruby...)

It would be interesting to see statistics on those candidates being placed
into those top companies

Please advise

~~~
ruggeri
We're not trying to replicate or replace a traditional four-year CS program.
Over 500+ hours, working full-time, in pairs, and with constant access to
instructors, students have rapidly built skill and experience with
programming. Ultimately, that's what I think employers are looking for in
junior devs.

We have also spent considerable time reviewing traditional CS topics like
algorithms and data structures.

We're a couple weeks away from hiring day, but companies including Apple,
airbnb, Lytro and Twilio have signed up. These companies are making the
investment to send senior engineers to hiring day; they don't do this lightly.

~~~
ethan_t
It's awesome that you are able to get attentions from those top-level
companies like those. I did take a look at the curriculum and you do in fact
have some data structure/algorithm classes.

It would you be nice if you can provide us with candidates' interview
experiences and outcome -- just to provide a roadmap for future candidates

------
telephonic
Ok, so you're competing directly with Dev Bootcamp (<http://devbootcamp.com>)
by underpricing them.

I'm reading the tuition section here: <http://www.appacademy.io/description>

It looks like the student pays you 12.5% of their first year's salary.
Normally wouldn't the hiring company pay?

If I'm reading it right -- and I might not be -- how is that different than a
student loan? Wouldn't that just be 12.5% off the top of their first year's
salary? It's not like a potential employer would offer 12.5% more just because
you're charging the student.

You've already run a few iOS classes, too. Can you talk about outcomes?

~~~
chriszf
Is that a problem, underpricing the competition if the market bears it? Dev
Bootcamp's cost has risen meteorically since they first opened their doors in
February of this year. It is now roughly the same cost as a year's tuition at
a UC. Apples to oranges, sure, but it gives the number some perspective.

The difference in the pricing model here is that you don't have to pay it back
should things go pear-shaped after the course. Obviously, it's in their
interest to secure 100% placement, but at least it's not a financial burden on
a student if it doesn't work out. This is an important consideration for some
people: these bootcamps are sometimes a last resort for people jump starting a
new career after long bouts of unemployment in the current economy. As good as
any of these schools are, the risk of dedicating months to a program and
taking on additional debt with no guarantee of a job is a tough thing to
swallow.

~~~
at-fates-hands
Not only has Dev Bootcamp's cost risen, they're getting super selective about
who they let in the program. The other huge issue would be for people who
don't live in SF. On their website they say they work with the best recruiters
in SF who are "waiting for you to graduate.". Yeah, so if I'm not from SF,
then what are my odds of getting in? Probably slim to none.

~~~
lachyg
I find the matter of fact tone of your comment interesting. From what are you
basing "they're getting super selective about who they let in the program".
Our interview structure and selection criteria has remained the same for a
long time, only just now is that changing and by no means is it becoming more
selective.

We also don't discriminate based on location, gender, etc.

~~~
gmaguyon
I've read somewhere that Dev Bootcamp applications for future sessions is now
1000+ for future cohorts. Does everyone have a chance at an interview, or are
there specific qualities you look for in an application before giving the
interview 'greenlight'?

------
FD3SA
Hi there, this sounds incredibly effective and I know a number of very
talented friends who'd be interested. I briefly read through the description
but couldn't find the answers to the following questions:

1\. How are accommodations handled? Do we have to arrange that on our own or
are they provided?

2\. Do you help with visas? My friends are Canadian so not sure whether they
can stay for 9 weeks in the USA without a student visa.

3\. Does the entrepreneur lesson plan differ at all from the regular
employment plan? Or are you in the same plan and just pay differently?

Thanks in advance for your help, phenomenal company and vision.

~~~
CesareBorgia
Hi! Thanks for the kind words! They mean a lot to us.

1\. We help you arrange housing by connecting you to other App Academy
students moving to SF, as well as by connecting you to local hacker/startup
houses, but ultimately accommodation is the responsibility of the student.

2\. We have accepted international students in the past, and will continue to
do so. However, we unfortunately don't have the resources to help you with
visas.

3\. The only difference for entrepreneurs is the payment plan.

------
slykat
I find it a bit weird that you have shifted from iOS to Rails given: 1) There
is an established rails bootcamp in the area (Dev Bootcamp) while there are
very few iOS bootcamps anywhere 2) Before yesterday, the website was taking
applications for iOS classes 3) The only batch of students you've had go
through your program were iOS students and haven't been placed yet

Makes it a bit hard to judge the quality of the program since you've wiped the
slate clean by changing technologies before your first batch has finished.
It's a bit hard to gauge your student comments since they were trained on
different technologies and haven't even been placed yet.

~~~
CesareBorgia
The demand for both Rails and iOS devs in SF is huge, the market is nowhere
near saturated. It's really the opposite: as Devbootcamp gains success, the
applicant and recruiting company pools grow larger.

We taught Ruby/Rails for the first 3 weeks of the current iOS course; several
of our alumni directly speak to their experiences learning Rails in their
testimonials. That said, the most important (and hardest) concepts to learn
through these programs are the fundamental skills of software development (how
to model a real-world problem, how to design a solution, how to debug...).
Those core, essential skills are common to both Rails and iOS, as well as any
other software development work.

------
xiaoma
I visited these guys a couple weeks ago and played some 7 Wonders with some of
them after class. It was a fun group and it was really neat to see how it's
run.

I've been working pretty hard in improving my skills on my own via Coursera,
Code School, etc... but this is way better. Pair programming and then chatting
with all the other pairs working on the same thing looked like it was not only
effective, but also motivational. It was a fun group to hang out with, too.

The organizer was even kind enough to share a few tidbits of advice for in in
terms of learning materials, etc for me to pursue on my own.

I'm definitely applying for their next batch.

------
srunni
How useful would this be to a non-software engineer with significant self-
taught programming experience? I have programmed (mainly Python & Java, no
Ruby/Rails and little web experience) for several years within the context of
biomedical engineering and could probably teach myself the material, but this
would provide some external discipline and, more importantly, make finding a
job much easier (my resume and some other links are on my profile page, if
anyone would like to hire me).

~~~
avalaunch
Your experience level sounds a lot like mine before I was accepted into the
App Academy (I'm a student here right now). I'm not a software engineer either
but I had been teaching myself to code in Python (with a Django framework) for
about a year to a year and a half before applying.

It took me about 1 month here to cover the same amount of material that took
me 1 year to cover on my own. Being self taught is great, but learning in a
classroom full of equally motivated students guided by an incredible teacher
is even better. If I get stuck, I can turn to any of my fellow students and
they'll help me out. Likewise, I often learn the most by helping others get
unstuck. And, of course, our instructor is always there to help us think about
problems in new ways. He gives lectures daily and then for the rest of the day
he helps us out in a more personal, one on one basis. His great skill is his
ability to break down complicated ideas and present them in an easy to
understand manner.

While I could learn all of this on my own, it's hard to overvalue the effect
of learning in an accelerated environment like the App Academy provides.

I've actually been blogging daily about my experience at the App Academy. You
can check that out here: <http://krisallenfields.tumblr.com/>

------
wrathsu
This is a fantastic idea. I wish I could go back in time when I was graduating
high school and enroll in something like this. Would have saved me tens of
thousands, and increased my earnings over lifetime by quite a large amount.
Congrats.

~~~
heydonovan
Completely agree! It's just a shame that only a handful of companies offer
such a program. I'd gladly give my tuition money to programs like these.

------
vukmir
I'm starting with Rails and this sounds like a great deal. The only problem is
that I'm some 6500 miles away from SF. Anyhow, I like what you're doing and I
wish you success.

~~~
slykat
There are bootcamps sprouting up in a lot of places now (NYC, Chicago,
Toronto, etc.). Here's a handy list:

[http://www.quora.com/Computer-Programming/What-are-the-
best-...](http://www.quora.com/Computer-Programming/What-are-the-best-
programming-bootcamps-courses-available)

------
obijuan
My current family and financial situation is such that it'd be possible to
move to SF for the course, but difficult (not quite impossible!) to stay for a
job afterwards. Do any of the companies who have signed on to hire graduates
allow remote workers and/or offer jobs at locations other than SF?

~~~
CesareBorgia
Yes; some employers are flying in from across the country for interview day!

~~~
obijuan
Thank you for the quick reply.

------
linuxfault
Can you guys partner up with a hotel/motel/apartment company/something? I'm on
the east coast and would love to attend on one of the available dates but I
have no clue about the sfbay area, apartments, etc other than craigslist of
course. And craigslist on the East Coast can get weird lol

------
arkonaut
Am a fan of this fee/tuition structure over Dev Bootcamp's and know a girl in
the current class - She built a grocery shopping/calorie counting app that
blew me away within 3 weeks of the course. No prior programming knowledge or
experience.. was impressive.

------
alxndresp
What made you change course and focus on Rails development instead of
continuing with iOS?

~~~
CesareBorgia
Hey! Thanks!

We want to expand the business and teach all the things! The iOS class will be
back as soon as we can run them both simultaneously :-)

~~~
danny_g
Hi, I applied to App Academy a little over 2 weeks ago before the curriculum
change. Will this affect my application or should I still be expecting a
decision? Thanks

~~~
CesareBorgia
We'd be happy to consider you for our Rails class. Let me know if you're
interested in that course, and I'll transfer your application over!

~~~
danny_g
Yes, definitely! My email is included in my profile in case you need to search
for me by email. Thanks a lot for your help!

------
bcjordan
Google Cache:
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.app...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.appacademy.io)

I'm getting a domain parking page:

<title>Appacademy.io</title>

<meta name="keywords" content="cash advance debt consolidation insurance
appacademy.io" />

<meta name="description" content="Find Cash Advance, Debt Consolidation and
more at Appacademy.io. Get the best of Insurance or Free Credit Report, browse
our section on Cell Phones or learn about Life Insurance. Appacademy.io is the
site for Cash Advance." />

<http://i.imgur.com/9MHjY.png>

~~~
ruggeri
Thanks for the bug report; looking into it... Hmm; maybe an old DNS update?
Seems to be working with everyone I checked with.

~~~
stefanobernardi
I get the parked domain too <http://cl.ly/image/360p2Q0C0Y09>

------
fourstar
Who exactly is this for? If you are looking for beginners, why even ask for a
github profile?

~~~
ruggeri
Many people who take our program have done some study on their own but now
want a more immersive environment. Some already have projects that are pretty
cool.

------
chris11
This looks interesting. I also really like the pricing, it definitely looks
like it reduces risk for students. That said, what are the costs like for
housing and other living expenses in S.F. for the two month period?

------
tankbot
I really want to participate in one of these programs (App Academy, Hungry
Academy, Hacker School, etc.) but location is a deal-breaker. Does anyone know
of similar events in the Portland, OR area?

~~~
obijuan
While not exactly what you're looking for, I believe a few of the Hungry
Academy graduates will be relocating to Portland after graduation. So if (a
big if perhaps) you can pull the 5 months away from the area for the class,
you don't necessarily have to permanently relocate.

~~~
tankbot
During the last HA round I noticed that LivingSocial has Portland offices, as
do a few of the companies that App Academy works with (vmware springs to mind,
was just there yesterday).

My problem is there is no way I can leave for a couple months to participate,
it's just not possible in my situation. I truly believe that the immersive
programs offered by these companies would work best for me - in ways that
school or self-study don't - but location is a huge mitigating factor.

------
Quizz
Any plans to open similar schools in other major metro areas like Los
Angeles/Orange County, Las Vegas, Atlanta, etc.? I'm assuming the biggest
obstacle is finding qualified instructors.

------
gyardley
The first company to offer intensive programs like this over the Internet will
do well for themselves.

~~~
startupfounder
I disagree.

A program like this would be like Knewton online for GMAT training. They
charge $500 per program and can't begin to charge $10k. The other point is
that these programs are set up to find great people, teach them to code and
then hook them up with a company looking for great people who can code (go
figure).

The company that is going to win will set up courses like this in multiple
cities, SF, NYC, Chicaco, etc. and build an online component.

I look forward to seeing what companies the alumni work for and project they
build.

------
gmaguyon
How many applications do you receive per cycle and what is the percentage
admitted?

