
PRISM update - brokenparser
http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/06/16/prism-update-recent-reports-you-shouldnt-miss/
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dclowd9901
Crazy to me that our government is capable of a monumental task such as
filtering _the_ raw unfiltered data stream into manageable information, but
can't manage to get the VA to get benefits to soldiers in a reasonable time
frame.

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flyinRyan
Priorities. Why would the government care about soldiers that are no longer of
any use?

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dguido
Uhhh, that post looks more like rampant speculation than an update on where
things stand. Here are a bunch of primary sources of info that came out over
the weekend instead:

[http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/federal_government/of...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/federal_government/officials-
nsa-programs-thwarted-potential-terrorist-plots-in-us-more-than-20-other-
countries/2013/06/15/ca868b9a-d614-11e2-ab72-3f0d51ec1628_story.html)

[http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2013306160046](http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2013306160046)

[https://twitter.com/markknoller/status/346414410945941505](https://twitter.com/markknoller/status/346414410945941505)

~~~
cadlin
None of those are primary sources, just FYI.

And from the second article (an op-ed by a Congressman):

>Neither program allows the NSA to read e-mails or listen to phone calls of
American citizens.

This is blatantly false, and the Government has said as much. The entire
article is a mixture of falsehood and slick (read: dishonest) reasoning.

The first link is more unsubstantiated than the submitted link.

And the third link is a tweet about what a Congressman said.

The only one that has any helpful information is the Washington Post article
and it's just a statement offered without evidence.

In case you didn't know, primary sources would be things like internal memos,
pictures, videos, etc that are related to programs like Prism. E.g., the
evidence offered by Edward Snowden and not in any of the links you posted.

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jessedhillon
The evidence offered by Edward Snowden, that you have been able to see, says
very little about actual capability. And without context, we don't even know
if it describes current or proposed capability. We don't even know if it was
created by an NSA employee, and not e.g. a BAH contractor.

So if we're going to be standing on some sort of epistemological high ground,
let's make sure it's not quicksand beneath our feet.

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eik3_de
If they pull everything from undersea cables they must have all CA
Certificates from all over the world to do the man-in-the-middle for encrypted
connections.. plausible?

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ars
No, not plausible.

A CA certificate would allow them to forge a website certificate (and pull off
the MITM), but the website owner would still notice - they would see that the
hash number of the certificate they installed doesn't match the one the
browser is looking at.

Most website owners would not notice, it's true. But some would.

~~~
eik3_de
How does this comparing of certificate hashes work? If the connection is plain
text in the middle, can't the hash also be forged?

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Mordor
PRISM isn't the NSA's only project. They could can it tomorrow and then name
this something else. Only with full unrestricted inspections by the UN can
this kind of abuse be brought under control.

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gasull
PRISM " _provides the government with names, addresses, conversation histories
and entire archives of email inboxes._ "

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w_t_payne
I am not too sure I want to live in this ugly world of ours. Staying alive
feels like complicity with the evil.

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jacquesm
Being alive is the best way to do something about it.

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UniZero
Whether the NSA is capable of rewinding this undersea data stream is an
interesting question indeed. I had always thought managing that much
information would be impossible, but now days one cannot be sure of anything.

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Julianhearn
What about the different dates Google, Facebook etc came into prism. Why would
there be different dates if the government were just collecting raw
unencrypted data?

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DanBC
Slurping raw data from one source gives them that raw data.

Slurping nicely formatted data from known sources gives them nicely formatted
data that they can then cross-reference and use to help data-mine the raw
data.

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rmrfrmrf
What would be the point of harvesting raw internet traffic when any half-
intelligent person would be using an encrypted connection?

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comrade1
I wonder if we'll see a fracturing of the Internet. I live in Switzerland and
I am already seeing reports in the news of companies moving/expanding data
centers here. As someone that lives in Europe (but not EU thankfully) I will
try to avoid sending too much info to the u.s.

yes, I know it's ironic that I'm posting this on a u.s. site.

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chris_engel
And whats exactly the reason for the side blow against the EU? Oo

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akiselev
Most of the EU countries are in cahoots with the NSA (reportedly to get around
pesky legal restrictions on domestic spying; don't remember if this was media
speculation or shown to be true). Wouldn't be surprised if Switzerland is too.

~~~
DanBC
Confusingly the EU has supposedly strong laws about exporting private data
outside the EU.

ECHELON report from EU parliament showed that 5 countries (UK, US, Canada,
Australia, and New Zealand) were part of ECHELON and gave lists to each other
as a way to avoid laws about spying on their own citizens.

That EU parliament report is very old now (pre 9/11) and there are a bunch of
more recent laws that probably exempt GCHQ and others from these laws. But I
could be wrong; I haven't kept up; and I welcome corrections. I have no idea
what parts of RIPA (regulation of investigatory powers act, UK law) are
enacted or not, and what exemptions it has for GCHQ.

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akiselev
Yeah I was way over reaching. I've given up on following the exact details of
the NSA revelations and now I'm just enjoying the ride. It's probably safe to
just assume from now on that I'm always being spied on and that I should stop
looking at nuclear space propulsion papers.

