
Zero-Bullshit Method for Recruiting a Sales Force - takinola
http://a16z.com/2015/09/16/the-zero-b-s-method-to-recruiting-a-killer-sales-force/
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codys
Not in sales, but:

Author expects interviewees to "tell you what you want to hear", recommends
requiring their W-2, admits that companies oversell themselves too, but
doesn't appear to offer the interviewees the same insight into company data,
expecting them instead to "probe for related information and same truths 20
different ways".

Maybe I'm just a bit cynical (or not familiar with how sales works), but it
seems that this is a mechanism to give an interviewer more cards.

That said, it is an article from an interviewer's perspective, so I suppose
that's a bit expected.

~~~
jdp23
Yeah, he starts by talking about how the power dynamic is so key, especially
in sales recruiting, and can get in the way. Good point. But as you say his
proposed solutions all seem to put him, the interviewer, in more of a power
position.

~~~
nickpsecurity
It's supposed to be because the company is doing it for their benefit. He's
demonstrating being a salesperson as he describes it. ;)

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rl3
I hope Mark Cranney (also an a16z partner) writes a follow-up article to this.
It would only require a slight modification to the title, just swapping the
word _Recruiting_ out with _Motivating_ :

 _Mark Cranney walks up to the podium, looks at the crowd of fresh new
recruits, and says, ‘I don’t give a fuck how well trained you are. If you
don’t bring me five hundred thousand dollars a quarter, I’m putting a bullet
in your head.’ [0]_

[0] [https://medium.com/book-summaries/the-hard-thing-about-
hard-...](https://medium.com/book-summaries/the-hard-thing-about-hard-
things-82dd119d5b86)

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barrkel
"Start with dedicated sales recruiting to get the best sales force"

This doesn't really jibe with my experience in a startup selling software to
the financial sector. We got approximately nowhere until we were able to
convince a sales guy to join us, who had connections all over the City. He got
us a bunch of sales, dramatically increasing our revenue and that we can
upsell later, and then recommended we bring in another guy. He in turn has run
sales for some very large organizations, and cherry-picked another two people,
one in the US, one in Luxembourg, who had a large number of pre-existing
contacts in the banks we're trying to sell to. We're in a very good position
to grow; it's back to us on the dev team to increase our feature set to close
more deals (almost every customer wants this one little thing...)

My point is: for enterprise sales, contacts are everything. If you've got a
good product, you should be able to sell yourself to a good sales guy; and you
can follow networks from there.

However perhaps sales to the financial sector are a different category of
sales to the ones the OP is talking about, where large numbers of bodies is
more important.

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joshuaellinger
I am slightly surprised that it is legal to ask potential employees for W-2s.
I guess it is not like health records but tax filings are in-general private.

If I were asked for W-2s, I would respond by asking for the same information
from the company on the existing sales reps.

~~~
takinola
This is fairly standard for recruiting sales people. Sales is unique in that
there is a clear metric to judge performance. A W-2 is incontrovertible proof
that they have been able to hit their numbers. It's a great way to cut through
the bullshit.

~~~
nickpsecurity
I have limited experience in sales but I agree. People look at all kinds of
things for individuals and companies. I look at revenue, cash flow, and
customer loyalty. Revenue for obvious reasons. Cash flow because it's what
they're bringing in for real. Customer loyalty because it hints at what they
can sustain and build on.

For sales people, it might be what they made in terms of compensation plan and
customer loyalty in terms of what they can bring to the new company. One thing
not mentioned in the article, but which I've witnessed, is that great sales
people often bring their customers with them to a new company if they can. One
recent example from people I know involved a guy who moved to a competitor
with literally over a million in sales. He just fed his customers's egos to
get and keep their acquisitions then benefited when they sold their own
companies on the change that mainly benefited him. Made a killing on this
approach despite not even trying hard to get new customers lol. So, always
worth remembering that this might happen if your product/service is
interchangeable with others.

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vlehto
What happens when everybody is asking for W-2?

If your company starts doing bad because there is some problem with the
product(s), the sales force will be gone before you can blink an eye. They
just can't take a hit to their record if they wish to stay employable. So when
the company is in tough spot and should be selling very difficult to sell
products and need that loyalty, there isn't any.

I don't have any better alternatives. But this seems bit flawed.

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LatteForClosers
Want to measure BS...

(1) Get a life skill that used to be called reading people / empathy. If you
don't have it, hire someone that does.

(2) Hire more recruiters who actually read and evaluate resumes and ask
strategic interview questions outside the cookie cutter 99% standard.

(3) Stop scanning resumes for "key words".

The day any great sales rep will show their W2, is the day when startups
disclose all their financial records.

Until then, I'd rather take a sales test (remember those?) that cannot test
for empathy, drive, and creativity.

Engineers commenting on this topic, I will just say this...great sales people
have been selling $h!t since they were a kid. No different than great
developers, you don't just learn sales by taking courses at Stanford.

p.s. I stand behind my W2s, but I find this insulting to the true sales
community. Especially in the Valley, where easy as pie "sales" roles at cos.
with unicorn technology, an avalanche of inbound leads, or zero competition
are landed because it's not about (say it with me) "what you know, but who one
rushed with at Stanford".

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lunaru
Regarding W2s: I suppose expectations are different when you're in the sales
world. I had a conversation with a marketing person the other day and she was
surprised that engineers spend so much time during interviews. When I
explained that we spend the time doing actual coding, whiteboarding designs,
and doing in-depth technical discussions, her reaction was much like the
reaction the HN crowd gets when W2s are mentioned. And it makes sense -- when
NFL players are drafted, they're expected to go through a combine. Every
occupation has a "prove it" moment during the interview process.

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nickpsecurity
Great article. Could use more research into these data-driven methods. I like
how he comes up with something to cut through the BS. I also agree that Sales
is a different animal than the rest: need recruiters, management, and so on
specialized for handling them.

That putting a bit more into sales than engineering is a good practice is
supported by all the huge firms that did exactly that. Although, I recommend
making sure your company delivers mostly on whatever sales people are
promising. Can't overdo the gap between the two.

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cwilkes
Odd that for a story that tells you to get data about sales people is ...
surprisingly free of any detail on past experience on if it worked. Maybe the
author just wants us to take it on faith?

Also I chuckled at "two people connecting and talking about working together,
being part of something larger than just themselves" which then turns into a
"SHOW ME YOUR W2!!!" Honestly I thought the article was satire.

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dmourati
Taken aback by the assertion that recruiting would ask to see W2. I'm an
engineer and have no idea how things work in sales but to me that would be a
deal-breaker request.

Do companies actually ask to see W2s? That seems really forward and
inappropriate to me.

In fact, if someone asked me to see my W2, I'd probably shoot the question
right back at them.

~~~
parasubvert
Sales people aren't negotiating their salary, which is usually pretty basic.
They're negotiating their OTE (on target earnings) and EP (earnings
potential). Their comp package will vary from year to year, but a hotshot that
makes $1m a year by blowing out their quota consistently will want
accelerators and the like in their comp, whereas the company will want proof
they have done it before.

The only way to prove your past sales performance beyond references (who will
often lie) is to share proof of earnings.

