
Car firms linked to child labour over glittery mica paint - azuajef
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2016/jul/28/vauxhall-bmw-car-firms-linked-child-labour-mica
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mc32
I see two sides to this. One, the government of the country that allows this
to happen is ultimately responsible. India is not a banana republic where
companies can parachute in and muck about. So they bear responsibility for the
working conditions they allow their fellow citizens to work under.

Two, yes firms with long and convoluted supply chains still have an obligation
to ensure the suppliers follow local regulations, at the cost of contract.
That said, supply chains are convoluted and can be difficult to follow, and
the best way to address it is by the people closest the problem, the local
people. If the locals are corrupt or don't care much about their fellow
citizens, it does not absolve the foreign firms, but it does make things more
difficult. It would help if there were established a WTO-like mechanism, but
for pollution and labor concerns, to help enforce by way of treaties and thus
penalties.

An option these economies would resist, I suspect would be to impose tariffs
commensurate with their deviation from minimum international baselines for
pollution, labor laws, etc. These growing economies, their governments and
even the labor force, I suspect, would resist such efforts to bring progress
in these areas.

Let's not forget western economies grew on child labor in the 19th century as
well. It doesn't make it acceptable, but it should provide context.

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zaroth
Very sad article, not even so much that this material is in the supply chain
(official India mica production is just a fraction of total exports) but the
individual stories of the families caught in bondage to do this mining work
for $1/day paying off a "loan" at 200% interest.

Now if only the fine for allowing this material to reach your end product was
treated as serious of a negative externality, as say, putting out a bit more
sulphur in the exhaust than the latest EPA standard.

I mean, sorry, but what a _horrid fucking double standard_?! Cheaters causing
pollution in my backyard that statistically will result in perhaps 100 deaths,
fine the bastards $50 billion and shut the company down. Modern day slavery
and child labor producing 75% of India's mica output into our car paint and
cosmetics causing untold suffering of thousands? Oh, but the standard contract
language says they shouldn't do that, so companies wash their hands of it.

If an equivalent agency to the EPA cared about this negative externality as
relatively as much as the EPA cares about emissions, this would be a $1T fine
which would completely shutter the companies profiting from the illegally
mined mica.

~~~
mikeash
It seems reasonably consistent to me. This stuff stops at the borders. If they
were employing slave labor in the US, they'd get hit hard. Likewise, when
companies produce horrible pollution in foreign countries, we don't really
care. I'm not saying this is necessarily a good way to do things, but I don't
think it's quite a double standard.

~~~
zaroth
We fine companies millions of dollars for illegally dumping waste in
international waters.

EPA raided a company and jailed the executives for purporting to recycle but
actually shipping the waste overseas.

So it doesn't have to stop at the borders. US law can and does punish
companies for damage even outside the US.

I would have hoped for something like child slave labor, companies would be
looking at potentially facing a full embargo on their goods. When you put the
fear of God into a company for something like that, they will make damn sure
their supply chain is clean. I see it as the best way to stomp out these
horrific abuses.

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ancap
I for one support child labor and recognize that people cannot be lifted out
of poverty by fiat. Children working along side their parents means these
families can eat, and trying to legislate that away only prolongs and
exasperates their poverty.

Every advanced economy started with child labor and other, from our
perspective, deplorable conditions. The people must be able to gain enough
capital first, before children can go to school, adults can have higher level
jobs and enjoy other similar benefits of an advanced economy. But getting
there is not a matter of outlawing child labor, instituting a minimum wage or
other notions some have for "helping" the poor.

~~~
jon-wood
> The people must be able to gain enough capital first, before children can go
> to school, adults can have higher level jobs and enjoy other similar
> benefits of an advanced economy.

Why? So that we don't have to give up a small amount the relative luxury we
live in to help fund people who had the misfortune to be born in the wrong
part of the world?

If everyone would just get over themselves we could fairly easily fund decent
living standards for everyone without first requiring people to rent out their
children.

~~~
ancap
Several decades of African aid has demonstrated that is a lot easier said than
done.

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tombert
It upsets me at how completely unsurprised I am about this. At this point,
I've kind of started taking for granted that corporations in America depend on
child labor.

~~~
rfeather
Not just America. Most of the manufacturers listed are European. Not to say US
corporations are innocent of this.

It's pretty upsetting to me since I own a car with glittery paint from one of
the listed companies. It makes me curious as to how to solve the product
sourcing traceability problem for the ethically minded like us.

~~~
jdmichal
If you have "glittery" paint, you might have a metallic color which doesn't
use mica. It's the pearlescent colors that use mica.

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arprocter
Reminded me of this previous discussion -
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11246071](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11246071)

