
Milk that lasts for months - akandiah
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20170327-the-milk-that-lasts-forever
======
corin_
There's a very noticeable difference in taste between pasteurised and UHT
milk, and anecdotally, based on discussing with multiple friends over the
years, people who are used to pasteurised think UHT tastes worse, people who
are used to UHT don't notice the difference, or notice but don't mind either
way.

Personally, as a Brit (pasteurised is the norm) who has lived in France and
Belgium, I'd always choose pasteurised. To drink on its own, UHT is
significantly not nice to my tastebuds. With breakfast cereal its OK but still
worse. A small amount in coffee and I don't notice the difference.

In Paris, finding pasteurised was pretty easy to do - although shops gave much
more shelf space to UHT, I rarely struggled to find fresh milk. In Belgium on
the other hand... near where I was living in a city, only one of 4 chain
supermarkets and none of the cornershops sold non-UHT milk.

It's quite possible that if I spent <x amount of time> drinking lots and lots
of UHT milk eventually my preference might change. I'm not planning on trying,
though.

~~~
kyriakos
Massive difference in taste between UHT and pasteurised but you must
understand there's different use for either. I did a course on espresso coffee
and clearly remember the teacher telling us that for the best cappuccino you
should use full fat UHT as opposed to pasteurised milk. You'll also notice
that many coffee chains use UHT. On the other hand eating cereal with UHT has
a funny taste. Either way the benefit of UHT is that it can be stored without
reliable refrigeration, especially useful in developing countries with a
sparse or unreliable power grid.

~~~
jacobolus
As far as I know all the coffeeshops in San Francisco use Strauss milk, which
is pasteurized. The cappuccinos at Four Barrel, Ritual, Sightglass, Linea,
etc. compare favorably against any I’ve ever had elsewhere in the world.
[http://strausfamilycreamery.com/products/item/organic-
barist...](http://strausfamilycreamery.com/products/item/organic-barista-milk)

~~~
wikibob
Yes, nearly all commercially sold milk in the USA is HTST pasteurized. High
Temperature Short Time.

This article is discussing UHT, or Ultra High Temperature milk, which is a
different process that produces a significantly different taste profile.

~~~
jacobolus
Right. The point being that there’s no reason to seek out UHT milk “for the
best cappuccino”.

------
dsacco
This is interesting to me because one of my favorite weird hobbies is going to
my grocery store, taking a photo of the milk with the farthest date, and
sending it to my friends as a sort of game.

I shop at Stew Leonard's most of the time (locations in NY and CT). The milk I
buy there is organic and lasts a hell of a long time compared to the milk I
frequently see in other supermarkets. The current record I've seen is a gallon
of milk with an expiration date 63 days from the day I saw it. I'd say the
median is maybe...50 ish days (I shop on Sundays, when I think they've likely
restocked).

I regularly buy three gallons at a time, and to this day I find it to be the
most fun and humorous part of shopping at the grocery store. This milk has
literally never gone bad for me and it tastes delicious.

After reading this article, I'm really interested in knowing whether or not
it's heat-treated! I have always assumed it lasts so long because Stew
Leonard's owns their own farms relatively close to the grocery stores.

~~~
cauterized
I've had a similar experience. I think the organics companies just clean their
equipment/tanks better or something. Regular milk with an expiration date 3
weeks in the future often turns sour within 3 days of opening, despite
refrigeration. Whereas organic milk with the same expiration date, from the
same shelf in the same store, will last a week and a half. And there's really
nothing inherent about organic milk that should make it last longer.

~~~
CamelCaseName
_Regular milk with an expiration date 3 weeks in the future often turns sour
within 3 days of opening, despite refrigeration._

Wait, what? Are you not refrigerating your milk? This is unusual.

~~~
cauterized
I always refrigerate milk, just wanted to be clear about it to explain that it
wasn't going sour because I was doing something dumb like leaving it open on
the counter.

------
ccozan
After I moved to rural Germany, I was happy to find out that the local farmers
will sell you milk.

Since then I only drink that really fresh milk, milked in the same day. The
first 4 cm of the bottle are just cream. Is incredibly tasty and you can make
any kind of cheese or Yoghurt with it - you need the right bacteria, of
course.

Another interesting bit: I used to cook it and then drink it. Not doing this
anymore. Some people say is not healthy, but I can really see the cows from
where is coming. There is no place where it might be contaminated. And also it
resists about a week in the fridge, after that it transforms into a nice
refreshing fermented milk drink.

------
bad_user
In my mind edible substances that last a long time are free of nutrients and
high in calories, most of the time anyway.

I never buy UHT milk and try buying fresh, locally produced milk whenever I
can find it. I never buy low fat milk either.

The difference in taste between fresh milk and these replacements is actually
huge. I also don't get people buying the low fat variety either. If you're
concerned about fat or cholesterol, it's better to drink less, high-quality
milk, instead of milk-like liquids enriched with powdered milk, pork fat and
dyes (the exact composition of these replacements varies by country, but it's
always processed to the point that you can no longer classify it as being
milk).

~~~
Kurtz79
"In my mind edible substances that last a long time are free of nutrients and
high in calories"

Salted cod, cured meats, pickels, dried beans, dried oats, pasta, rice, beef
jerky, cheese... We have been using preservation methods since ancient times,
which do not have any adverse effect in terms of nutrition.

In terms of taste, in many a case, the method used to preserve can enhance the
taste and create a different (but not inferior) kind of food than the
original.

I don't see why modern methods should have an adverse effect, when done right.

~~~
Zigurd
Fermentation as a method of preservation is substantially different than UHT,
and you couldn't substitute one for the other without changing the product.
Heavy amounts of nitrates are dubious way of preserving food. But your point
is generally correct. For example, shelf stable vegetarian dishes should be
nutritionally very close to fresh.

------
donw
I didn't discover UHT milk until I moved to Germany, and went to the
supermarket. It seems that every culture has its own grocery taxonomy, so I
had to ask an employee where I could find the milk.

She pointed me towards the milk aisle, and I was amazed that none of it was
refrigerated. Sure, you can buy fresh milk in Germany, but it seems that UHT
is considered more the "standard".

I have to say, I preferred the taste to either American or Japanese milk, and
fell in love with the convenience of being able to keep a case of the stuff in
my pantry.

~~~
w-m
Milk usually isn't hard to find: just go to the back of the store, as far away
from the entrance as possible. Works often and in many countries.

~~~
crypto5
Planet Money's story about why is that:
[http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/07/23/334076398/episo...](http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/07/23/334076398/episode-555-why-
is-the-milk-in-the-back-of-the-store)

------
raimue
A few years ago, super markets in Germany (and I guess also in other European
countries) switched from selling pasteurized milk to ESL milk (Extended Shelf
Life). It has actually became quite hard to find any non-ESL milk in grocery
stores.

ESL milk last for 2-3 weeks in the fridge, but it has not been heated to the
same degree as UHT milk. Therefore it still tastes better, but not the same as
pasteurized milk.

------
gambiting
I was actually very surprised when I first moved to UK to find that milk here
spoils within a few days of purchase, I was so used to UHT milk that we would
normally buy several cartons of, and then it would last months(obviously only
few days after opening, but we could conceivably buy a 6-month supply and just
keep it in the basement for later consumption). Nowadays I found where to buy
UHT milk in the UK, it gets me some weird looks from my friends but the
convenience of not having to go to a store to buy fresh milk every few days is
absolutely worth it.

~~~
corin_
Milk actually has a few places in UK's cultural history, one bit of which is
very relevant to the inconvenience of buying milk regularly.

Traditionally, "milk floats" (a vehicle) would be driven by "milkmen", doing
early -morning deliveries of milk in glass bottles, and they would collect the
previous day's empty bottles at the same time. Wiki page has photo examples of
what milk floats look like:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_float](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_float)

This service is actually still available in some places. For example, I just
checked my postcode with
[https://www.milkandmore.co.uk](https://www.milkandmore.co.uk) and they told
me my milkman's name and that he delivers on Tuesdays, Thursdays and
Saturdays. But when I was a kid, say 20 years ago, we'd get it delivered
Monday to Saturday, and seeing milkmen doing their rounds was incredibly
common, with many customers everywhere. Now it's a bit of a quirky thing you
don't see or hear much of, mainly because most people decided that the
inconvenience of picking up from a shop was outweighed by the flexibility it
offered.

~~~
baddox
It's interesting that you described the concept of milkmen as specifically
relevant to the U.K. In the United States, milkmen are well-established in pop
culture, particularly as a quaint symbol of pre-WW2 domestic life. I would
have assumed that milkmen were standard in most every developed country before
refrigeration became widespread. I also would have assumed it's still common
in developing countries.

~~~
corin_
I was replying to somebody who was talking about the situation in the UK, and
the knowledge I have of milkmen is from the UK - I didn't mean to imply it was
necessarily unique to us.

------
altano
I don't find pasteurization to make as much of a difference as other things
like fat content. Whole milk is sooo much better than skim milk, for example.

I love milk and since moving to California I haven't been able to find
anything nearly as good as what we had in Boston. There was this brand High
Lawn Farms that had tangibly better milk. You could even notice the difference
when used in small amounts in tea/coffee, which is probably why every single
local coffee shop used it. Someone should figure out what they are doing
differently.

~~~
mastazi
Are you comparing untreated vs pasteurized milk, or pasteurized vs. UHT? The
article is mainly about the latter.

~~~
ghaff
A commercial producer like the one listed is still selling pasteurized
product. I do like to buy from a couple of small local producers when it's
convenient but I'm not sure I could identify in a blind test.

The availability of raw milk varies by state and is often only available for
purchase on the farm that produces it or otherwise outside of normal retail
channels.

------
davegardner
You can certainly use UHT milk to make cheeses that don't contain rennet such
as paneer, ricotta, and quark. Some argue that you can't make good quality
versions of these cheeses with UHT milk. From personal experience, I've made
quark with UHT milk and it seemed pretty good quality to me.

I do get excellent results making yoghurt with UHT milk. It's also a simpler
process as there is no need to heat the milk first before adding the starter.

------
cedex12
Slightly off-topic, but how far are we from producing artificial milk? It
would seem like a relatively easy thing to do (at least compared to meat), and
with high payoff (vegetarian diet without the ethical and ecological problems
of animal dairy).

~~~
Synaesthesia
There's really nice artificial milk for sale - soy milk

~~~
rydl
...also milk from rice, almond, oat...

~~~
mathw
Are any of these nutritionally equivalent to cow's milk?

Or human milk?

Or some kind of adult-biased version of human milk?

Oh wait, yeah. Soylent, Huel, Mana, 100%Food etc. etc. etc. are effectively
"artificial milk for adult humans", at least in their liquid forms rather than
the ones who sell packaged meal bars as well.

~~~
NikolaeVarius
Why does it matter? Milk nutritionally is simple to replace. It's sugar water
with fat and some assorted vitamins. It doesn't have anything that isn't
easily replaceable.

------
blahedo
About fifteen years ago, I had a housemate who was from Italy, and she thought
the milk I bought (standard US whole milk) was gross and, she said, "tastes
like cheese". I had already been exposed to shelf-stable milk on a previous
trip to Europe, so we soon figured out that was the source of the issue, but
reading this article suggests she may have been exceptionally perceptive with
the cheese comment.

------
dghughes
This would be great for the Canadian north where food is incredibly expensive
due to the cost of shipping and storage. For example a 2 liter bottle of
orange juice is $30, 4 liters of milk $10. the UHT milk could bring that cost
down if it can be stored in bulk for long periods of time.

~~~
9q
> 2 liter bottle of orange juice is $30

Are you serious about this? 2 liters is 30 USD? I'm not sure if you're joking
or being serious.

~~~
mattkrause
Sounds about right. I paid $4.50 for a warm (12 oz) can of Shasta root beer in
Koliganek, AK.

Keep in mind that these prices are for _very_ small, _very_ remote towns where
everything is flown in (or driven over the ice in winter), not downtown
Montreal or Anchorage.

~~~
dhbx9
Unfortunately true for Singapore as well even though it's not remote. Alcohol
tax means a 12oz can goes for around 5 bucks as well.

~~~
inferiorhuman
Root beer (well, Shasta at least) is a sugary soft-drink (non-alcoholic). I
think I paid about S$12 for a pint of actual beer at some pizza place in
Clarke Quay. Don't think they tax the sugary stuff as much (if at all?), but
they'll certainly shame you out of them (hello TAF).

------
matt_wulfeck
This was a really fun comments section to read. It's really interesting to see
how much variation there is in the international milk market!

~~~
aembleton
Yep, I've only had pasteurised in the UK and Ireland and those two taste the
same. If I'm every in the US I'll have to try the milk and see if it tastes
different.

------
chomp
You can't make mozzarella with UHT milk. One nice thing about regular
pasteurized milk is that it forms curds easier and has higher yield. I love
going to the store and buying a gallon to turn to fresh mozz.

------
drivingmenuts
Apropos link:
[http://cnqzu.com/library/Anarchy%20Folder/Fiction/Stephenson...](http://cnqzu.com/library/Anarchy%20Folder/Fiction/Stephenson,_Neal/Stephenson,_Neal_-
_Cryptonomicon/Neal%20Stephenson%20-%20Cryptonomicon%20v2%20\(HTML,%20Fully%20Proofed\)/slide58.html)

I remember reading that some years ago and wondering if it was like condensed
milk (which would probably be pretty awful on Captain Crunch cereal). Now, I
think the cereal might be the key thing to hide the flavor of UHT milk.

~~~
Broken_Hippo
I don't like milk, but will eat in cereal - though I won't drink any leftover
milk in the bowl. It isn't just that cereal changes the taste of the milk, but
the way you smell it is different. In a glass, you have a concentrated
smelling tube you put to your mouth, and cereal you have a dribble on the
spoon. You simply can't smell or taste as much of it.

------
garyclarke27
British / Irish pasteurised milk tastes so much fresher than pasteurised milk
in other countries, must be our abundant green grass, British Beef is also the
best in the world. UHT milk is horrible. Filtered fresh milk is the answer,
needs refrigeration but lasts for 5 times longer than non-filtered.

~~~
Neliquat
You really need to travel more if you think this. British beef is some of the
worst (unless boiling) due to the fat/collegen ratio.

------
cschneid
My local store just started carrying small (1 pint) UHT milk. We don't use
milk in our house, except as an ingredient in other things, so a pint at a
time is perfect, and now it has a 6+ month shelf life, so there's less
planning and feel-bads when it goes sour.

------
pmontra
Pasteurized and UHT have about the same shelf space in Italy with the former
tasting much better than the latter to me. I buy UHT only for the first
breakfast when I come back from a vacation. Full fat milk tastes better than
reduced fat, which is watery in comparison.

However micro filtered milk become common in the last years. It lasts one or
two weeks and tastes as pasteurized. It's the one I buy.

The advantage of UHT is that it doesn't need a refrigerator so it's what I buy
on vacation, when I don't have a fridge or where I don't trust the fridges of
the sellers.

------
phantarch
Anecdotally, I almost exclusively buy Fair Life milk nowadays which usually
has a very comfortable shelf life of 2-3 months. No discernible taste
differences.

They claim that they've got a cold-filtration process which is what allows for
their milk to last so long. Doesn't sound the same as the UHT discussed in the
article, I'd be curious to know what they exactly do.
([https://fairlife.com/our-process/](https://fairlife.com/our-process/))

------
ProfessorLayton
Heh, I keep a box of single serve UHT milk cartons in my fridge just for
making coffee on the weekends, and the occasional recepie. It's a little
pricey at about $1.10/8oz carton, but at my consumption rate I'd be throwing
away most of the 1/2 gallon jug anyway, which typically costs more per oz than
a full gallon.

I don't find it as good as non-UHT milk, but it's definitely worth the
convenience of always having milk when I need it.

~~~
mackey
I do the same thing, but still end up with extra at the end of the weekend.
When traveling in Europe I noticed a lot of places have small tablespoon
servings of UHT milk in little cartons. I wish we had something like that
here, but all I can I find are stuff like "mini moos" which are too heavy.

------
powertower
Non-homogenized milk will also not spoil like regular milk does [though it
still needs refrigeration, but it will last for 2-3 month pass its expiration
date].

------
senectus1
We drink the Lactose free stuff, that stores for months in the cupboard. Oddly
it seems to taste nicer than fresh milk.

------
huherto
This is probably what we call tetrapak milk in Mexico. You buy them in the
supermarket and they last for months. I was surprised not find it in the US.
It is very convenient. I don't think it tastes different than regular
refrigerated milk.

------
philmander
There's quite a big different between 72°c and 140°c. Would 105° produce a
semi-long lasting milk that doesn't taste quite as different (bad) as UHT?

Also, are there any other downsides to UHT besides taste? Are more nutrients
lost?

------
NanoWar
So I go out and order a nice coffee from expensive beans, grinded & brewed
with love -- only to see that they put UHT milk in it instead of fresh milk
... that spoils it for me!

------
sargun
Does anyone irradiate milk? I don't think the Mallard reaction would be
present -- although, the milk proteinase would remain, but traditional
pasteurization would be effective as an interim solution to deal with the
unwanted enzymes.

It seems like this is a low-hanging startup that might actually benefit from
Trump's America.

------
skc
I'm embarrassed that I never looked into the difference between the two.

I've always bought fresh milk on the assumption that it was healthier and
purer than the long life stuff, especially because the long life milk tastes a
tad sweeter and creamier to me (so it must be bad for me, right?)

------
bootload
Pasteurised, UHT but no mention of powdered or condensed milk.

------
d--b
Weird that they don't talk about micro-filtered milk. It removes bacteria
through filtration, tastes like regular milk, has a long shelf life and stays
good for a good week in your fridge...

~~~
matt_wulfeck
If it tastes like regular milk (assuming you mean the pasteurized milk we
drink in the US/Australia/NZ) what are the advantages over it? I regularly
keep milk in my fridge much longer than a week.

~~~
mathw
I've started buying microfiltered milk (am in the UK) because I've always had
trouble with milk going off before I can use it all when buying ordinary
pasteurised milk, but the microfiltered milk stays fresh plenty long enough to
use it all up.

On the bottle the stuff I buy say it's good for 7 days in the fridge after
opening. Experience so far bears this out, whereas normal milk manages about 4
for me.

It's entirely possible my fridge sucks, but I have checked the temperature and
the milk comes out of the fridge at about 2C, so...

------
dkarapetyan
And honey lasts forever.

------
projectorlochsa
Another milk that lasts months is soy milk. Nutritionally superior and cruelty
free!

~~~
claviola
Sure, if you don't think mass deforestation is cruel... Brazil is one of the
biggest soy exporters in the world, and large swathes of rain forest and
cerrado (savanna) have given way to soy farms.

[http://wwf.panda.org/what_we_do/footprint/agriculture/soy/co...](http://wwf.panda.org/what_we_do/footprint/agriculture/soy/consumers/)

~~~
projectorlochsa
More than 85% of soy grown is for non-human animal consumption. Animal
agriculture in Brazil is the leading cause of Amazon deforestation, likewise,
animal agriculture in Argentina.

I'm not even sure if you've read the source you've given as it states the
same.

Not to mention that most soy humans consume is non-GMO (which excludes
practically everything from Argentina and Brazil), and that soy is grown in
China, and for example in suprisingly large quantities in Serbia. So it's not
even necessary to cut rainforests.

~~~
marcosdumay
Actually, soy milk competes with oil in grain use.

What goes to feeding animals is mostly what remains after extracting the (more
expensive) products destined to human consumption.

Besides, Brazilian animal agriculture does not use much soy. It would even
shrink in area if it started using more.

------
sauronlord
Drink milk?

What are you... a baby cow?

This piece was likely inspired by the milk lobby... sales must be sagging.

