
If Jesus Never Called Himself God, How Did He Become One? - ValentineC
http://www.npr.org/2014/04/07/300246095/if-jesus-never-called-himself-god-how-did-he-become-one
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callmeed
Weird that JC in on HN. Completely odd premise to me. I wasn't aware people
discounted the gospel of John when considering this. Here are some of basics
as I understand them (as a christian):

* OT prophecies refer to Jesus as "God with us" and "mighty God" [1][2]

* He said "I am in the Father and the Father is in me ..." [3]

* He said "If you had known me, you would have known my Father also." [3]

* He said "I and the Father are one." and immediately afterwards, jews attempted to stone him, citing "because you, being a man, make yourself God." [4]

[1] [http://www.esvbible.org/Isaiah+7/](http://www.esvbible.org/Isaiah+7/)
(verse 14) [2]
[http://www.esvbible.org/Isaiah+9/](http://www.esvbible.org/Isaiah+9/) (verse
6) [3] [http://www.esvbible.org/John+14/](http://www.esvbible.org/John+14/)
(verse 11, 7) [4]
[http://www.esvbible.org/John+10/](http://www.esvbible.org/John+10/) (verse
29-33)

 _Note: no desire to debate these points (too busy atm). Just wanted to point
out where some get their stance on the topic._

~~~
BetterLateThan
Matthew 19:17 - "Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that
is, God".

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cup
>If Jesus had not been declared God by his followers, his followers would've
remained a sect within Judaism — a small Jewish sect, and if that was the case
it would not have attracted a large number of gentiles.

It's interesting he raises that point because in Islam Jesus is considered a
prophet and explicitly not God and in doing so tries to establish the argument
that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all the same religion from the same
source but that the differences are a result of changes (human error or
addition) over time. Hence, while being the most recent of the monotheistic
religions, Muslims argue that its a return to the 'original' religion of
Abraham, Moses, Jesus etc.

~~~
azth
Islam maintains that it is the religion of all the messengers (read:
Submission). Abraham, Moses, and Jesus were all Muslims (Submitters).

On a side note, there exists at least one sect of Christianity that does not
believe in Jesus as God.

~~~
JacobSkyler
In Muhammad's time there were quite a few sects that denied Jesus was God. He
would have been familiar with the concept before he started getting
revelations.

It's interesting to note that Muhammad also taught that a lot of other
historical figures were prophets too, e.g. Alexander the Great.

~~~
azth
> e.g. Alexander the Great.

Citation needed. This is a fallacy that has been spread unfortunately.

~~~
JacobSkyler
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great_in_the_Qura...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great_in_the_Quran)

~~~
azth
I have come across that page before. Unfortunately it is full of false
information (I researched it). For instance, the Alexander romance incidents
that match the Quran were actually copied from the Quran, not the other way
around.

Furthermore, note that even what is mentioned on that page is speculation from
certain Islamic scholars. There is absolutely no authentic Hadith (or even
non-authentic as far as I know) that mentions Alexander by name. All that is
mentioned in the Quran is the "Two-Horned One", which could be Cyrus as
mentioned on the wikipedia page, or it could be someone else completely.

One last point, the person in question here was never declared to be a prophet
in the Quran as you claimed, but just a righteous king and person.

~~~
dingaling
If it's wrong then please contribute to it and fix it. Your knowledge of this
subject should be shared.

Online society's attitude to Wikipedia seems to have settled into two camps;
those who refer to it as an authority and those whose avoid it due to negative
experiences with inaccuracies or politics.

I'm trying to move from the second group to a third; patch-up articles for the
benefit of other people.

~~~
azth
I have had mostly good experiences with Wikipedia regarding technical
subjects. I think this was the first topic I came across that really stuck in
my mind where Wikipedia was conspicuously wrong (which I affirmed even more
after doing some research).

I will take your advice into consideration and attempt to amend that page. I
don't know what the monitoring procedures are on wikipedia, and if they will
allow such changes to persist.

~~~
projct
The Guerilla Skepticism on Wikipedia people may be of assistance in following
the rules and making sure your edits are sufficiently scientifically
skeptical.
[http://guerrillaskepticismonwikipedia.blogspot.com/](http://guerrillaskepticismonwikipedia.blogspot.com/)

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danieltillett
Wasn't it decided by committee like all important decisions [0].

[0]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea)

~~~
JacobSkyler
No, the link you provided tells you what Nicaea was about. It standardised the
method for calculating Easter and condemned Arianism. (Arianism denied the
trinity, not Jesus's divinity.)

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shmerl
According to Jewish sources it's rather simple. He was made into one by his
followers, primarily Paul (Shaul) in order to advance Christianity. Author's
conclusion in the end is pretty much the same.

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jrs99
that's a question that many people, such as isaac newton, were obsessed with.
to newton, it was a total fraud.

It's very possible that sometime after Jesus reached puberty, God decided that
he was the same thing as Jesus.

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o0-0o
The OP question from the NPR article is a logical fallacy. The story is that
there is only one God, and Jesus is the son.

