
In Sweden, a Cash-Free Future Nears - ncw96
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/27/business/international/in-sweden-a-cash-free-future-nears.html
======
mschuster91
Yeah, and allow government, secret services, police and the NSA to track your
entire life. Fuck that, I'm sticking with cash.

~~~
fauigerzigerk
That seems like a solvable problem though. For instance, prepaid cards or apps
based on a similar principle should fix this.

~~~
mschuster91
By KYC laws prepaid CCs have to be registered with your name and address.

~~~
ersii
What jurisdiction are you talking about?

There are prepaid Internet enabled Visa/Mastercards available at
7-Eleven/Pressbyrån in Sweden from the supplier "Spendon" (www.spendon.se). No
questions asked when purchasing them. It's sold as a "gift card" though.

~~~
cdcarter
At least in the US, to enable them for internet use, you have to register the
card online.

------
Aleman360
Big downside: authorities can lock you out of the financial system.

------
Numberwang
This seems to pop up in different forms on HN every now and then and then the
same arguments all take place in the comments so allow me to start.

As a Swede I would not want to have it any other way, and any time I'm abroad
I miss the simplicity.

There are privacy issues and cost issues sure, but this is a general problem
in lots of ways for most nations.

~~~
maaku
Do you trust your government?

~~~
scrollaway
The question is not "Do you trust your government?", it's "Do you trust your
next government?"

~~~
boznz
+1

------
JDiculous
Meanwhile in NYC, paying by anything other than cash generally requires a
$10-15 minimum. I find it incredibly inefficient and am sick of having to hold
cash and constantly go to ATMs.

I understand that the reason these card minimums are in place is because the
card companies charge a non-trivial amount that wipes out the store's margins
at low prices. How can we solve this?

~~~
biafra
Is 3% really wiping out the margin? Square and SumUp charge less than 3% for
credit card payments. At least in Germany that led to smaller minimum amounts.
They are now at about 1€.

~~~
dalke
US grocery stores have a margin of roughly 2-3%.

------
scrollaway
I lived in Sweden (Stockholm) for a year. Here's what bothered me about the
idea of "cash-free":

1\. Cards are controlled by businesses that do not have the customers'
interests at heart. What's more, it is _not_ easy to become a card payment
provider.

2\. Current government may be trustable, but nobody knows what happens with
the next one. The government has various forms of power over card payments
which they don't have with cash. They can trace it, they can block it, they
can know every aspects of your life. And it's not just _your_ government, it's
other nations' as well in some cases.

So putting all your money in one basket here is putting all your purchasing
power and all your privacy in the hands of businesses that cannot be competed
with and institutions that are easily corrupted.

Electronic payments are the future, there's no working around that. But are we
going to find solutions to the privacy issues in time?

------
c_lebesgue
Welcome to a new era, one where negative interest rates have no lower bound.

------
PeterisP
I don't know how it's for native swedes, but last couple times I was visiting
there (and that was a few years ago) I didn't even bother to exchange currency
or have any swedish kronor in my wallet. You just can do everything without
cash.

~~~
nissehulth
I live in Stockholm, Sweden, I don't think I've had cash in my wallet at any
point this year.

Parking? Paid with an app (that charge my credit card).

Paying a friend or my kids for something? Done via the Swift app (instant bank
to bank account transfer).

Buying veggies at the outdoor market? That guy will accept credit cards via a
regular terminal or a phone with something like iZettle. Or perhaps even
accept a Swift transfer to his phone.

Regular shopping, credit cards. At the corner tobacconist you may find an old
and slow dialup-based terminal, but they are rare. Most terminals are online
and operate at decent speed.

I'm sure there are cash-only businesses, but I'm not in the market for illegal
drugs or no-receipt-handymans. :)

~~~
scrollaway
You don't have to buy drugs to find cash-only businesses in Stockholm. Maids
are cash only and so are some removal companies.

------
rayherrick
Biggest benefit of cash-free economy not mentioned in the article: escape from
the Zero Bound in conducting monetary policy
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_lower_bound](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_lower_bound)).
It can't be that central bankers in Sweden aren't realizing this; Sweden's
central bankers have always been a notch above performance-wise.

~~~
barney54
But this also assumes that the zero bound is a problem for monetary policy.
Personally, I believe it is a feature not a bug to have a zero lower bound.

------
willvarfar
the article isn't exaggerating; I take out two hundred kronor (not from an
atm, but from the cashier at a supermarket when I pay for my groceries) and
then it sits in my wallet 'just in case' for months. I carry a 10 Kr coin too,
in case I need to use an old public toilet or borrow a shopping trolley.

Swish is really taking off too. Even market stalls take Swish.

The part of the story that shows its Americanism though is the intro -
churches in Sweden are basically empty :)

~~~
bitserf
It's similar in New Zealand...The last time I had cash in my wallet was when I
visited Japan a year or so ago.

Basically if you don't have an EFTPOS terminal as a retailer you may as well
not exist. Even temporary food stalls at festivals usually have a mobile
connected terminal.

------
z3t4
Imagine if you could get a percentage every time money change hands!

------
jamesblonde
Here in Sweden most people don't carry any cash and would buy a stick of gum
with their card. If you want to give someone money, you "swish" it to them.
Swish is a massive smartphone app for people to people payments supported by
all banks.

~~~
Scoundreller
Is there any fee/commission for Swish? If there is not, was that a voluntary
choice by the banks, or a regulator's requirement?

~~~
fnordsensei
They're supposed to charge 1kr per transaction, flat fee, but they've been
putting it off. They're probably getting people used to the service before
starting to charge for it. Taking a note out of the drug dealer's book I
suppose.

------
gustavcedersjo
For a couple of years, there was a company in Lund, Sweden that offered
biometric payments. It was very convenient. Unfortunately, they quit, partly
because of high transaction costs of the banks.

