
Sex toys and the Internet of Things collide – what could go wrong? - kawera
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/09/sex-toys-and-the-internet-of-things-collide-what-could-go-wrong/
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SwellJoe
While I don't have any of this kind of device, I bought a Dropcam a few years
ago, when they were new, without knowing that they stored everything on their
servers. I was mortified, and immediately got rid of it. I feel like a home
webcam is at least on par with this device in terms of how profound the
invasion of privacy is.

That said, in this case, a lot of the stuff the device does couldn't readily
be done without some sort of connection to a server in the cloud, I would
think. I mean, Bluetooth can handle the local controls (and probably should,
when available), but even the remote control app for my Fire TV phones home
rather than using a local link; and that's a situation where I'm guaranteed to
be in the same room with the device when I want to control it from my phone.
But, they should be really clear about how much information they're passing
around and where it ends up.

That was what upset me most about the Dropcam...I read the box, saw it had all
the features I wanted, but no mention of, "BTW-We'll also be sending every
video over the Internet to our servers, where we will sell you access to that
data." I think one shouldn't have to guess about how a company implements
stuff like this, particularly if there are other, non-privacy infringing, ways
to implement the features. Hopefully they'll be more clear about it in the
future.

~~~
victorhooi
I also bought a Dropcam Pro a few years ago, and from memory, it was pretty
clear that it was cloud based. I've been pretty happy with it, but my goals
are different.

I suspect you weren't the target market for Dropcam. It was sold, and is sold
as a turnkey camera that works out of the box, that anybody can setup on
minutes, has native mobile apps that let you watch from anywhere in the world,
and records up to 30 days of footage, with motion/sound (and more person)
alerts.

In contrast, I've also setup local hosted cameras (Unifi video cameras) for
somebody else recording onto a rack mounted Dell R610 with S3 backups.
Different needs.

Many of the features of Dropcam (now Nest Cam) aren't really possible without
it being on the cloud. In particular, the new person alerts take advantage of
ML in the cloud, as does the new Sightline feature that lets you scrub quickly
over a few days in seconds.

~~~
TeMPOraL
> _Many of the features of Dropcam (now Nest Cam) aren 't really possible
> without it being on my butt._

Oh, they totally are. They just chose not to do it this way. Some of that is
because of it being a "turnkey" solution, but let's not pretend the cloud is
required for most of them.

> _In particular, the new person alerts take advantage of ML in my butt_

It shouldn't need to. Detecting people on video streams is something your
smartphone camera now does on-chip. At most it requires a DSP unit.

> _as does the new Sightline feature that lets you scrub quickly over a few
> days in seconds._

That's just a video player with some added precalc on the video stream.

You could have all those features with your own storage server and interface
in a local network. It's just that it is a little less "turnkey", so it
wouldn't sell as well.

~~~
DiabloD3
Ahem, Cloud to Butt is enabled ;)

~~~
TeMPOraL
I know ;).

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taneq
I know the default stance here is "everything should be internet-connected and
everything should stream all available data back to the mothership whenever
possible" because generally we're the ones building the things and receiving
the data (and data is great, who doesn't love data?!)

But from the point of view of the person buying and using the things, this is
just getting creepier and creepier.

~~~
erikb
Actually people are both at the same time. The more you have to develop this
stuff the less you use it. 90% of the developers I know don't have a smart
phone, no facebook account, don't use gmail as mail client, etc.

~~~
taneq
Yeah, the more people know about this stuff the more likely they seem to be to
turn it off.

I'm amazed that you know that many people with no smart phone or facebook
account, though - I know one person who doesn't have facebook, and no-one (as
of a couple of years ago) who doesn't have a smartphone.

------
flippyhead
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teledildonics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teledildonics)

~~~
raizex
I can't help but laugh and be impressed by the name at the same time.

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bpizzi
From the article:

"However, given the intimate nature of our products, the privacy and security
of our customers’ data is of utmost importance to our company. Accordingly, we
take concerns about customer privacy and our data practices seriously."

Just. Anonymise. Your. Data. At. Source.

This isn't that hard, come on. Your company's futur is at stake here.

~~~
Lio
"Accordingly, we take concerns about customer privacy and our data practices
seriously."

This is typical of the meaningless boilerplate that companies use to
acknowledge there's a problem but that they won't take any concrete steps to
solve it.

Usually when I see something like "your privacy is important to us" but with
nothing back it up, I interpret that as acknowledgement that they're going to
sell all your data at some point in the future, maybe through acquisition such
as when Google bought Nest.

~~~
taneq
It's like the stock phrase "we use your data in ways including ..." which,
because it doesn't exclude other ways to use said data, makes the whole
statement meaningless fluff.

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martin_a
While I can see the fun and useful part in collecting this kind of data ("80%
of our users use the 'high' setting - let´s improve Gen 2 on that point"), I
think more and more companies are losing track of what´s "good and bad" for
the sole purpose of improving products. Why not directly ask the customers,
make an opt-in or whatever, instead of anonymously collecting this kind of
data from everybody. Come on, in the end it´s quite private after all.

~~~
ddebernardy
> Why not directly ask the customers?

As you correctly suggest, "it's quite private" and users don't openly discuss
their turn-ons with strangers.

~~~
hwh
Maybe not with open identity, but they surely do discuss. There are lots of
mostly non-commercial forums that are full of people discussing their "turn-
ons". In most cases I encountered, in a very civilized fashion. Discussions
are more technical than one might expect, especially compared to "real-life"
discussions about turn-ons, which often end in shame, giggling or bragging. A
look at Amazon or other commercial platforms and the customer reviews shows
about the same. As long as people aren't forced to show their full name, they
are just fine about discussing such matters.

~~~
michaelt
Works fine until someone posts your anonymous online survey to 4chan and you
achieve... less product-market fit than you anticipated.

------
dildoBoxen
If it were more clear, the nature of the packaging, and the installation
process for any software included/offered with the device, it might be easier
to develop an opinion about whether the user was sufficiently warned about the
level of scummy behavior they could expect to suffer while using a remote
control massage apparatus.

On the one hand, having ripped so many EULA warning stickers, and clicked
through oh so many zombie consent rubber stamp dialogs, I'd figure that with
enough labeling, and smile-and-nod EULA prompts, the plantiff would be doomed.

But, then again, given the slipshod and middling tendencies toward product
packaging and general software hygiene across the adult entertainment
industry, I'd be completely unsurprised if they cut corners, and shipped an
autorun.inf CD-ROM in a paper sleeve, alongside a vacuum-molded plastic shell
inside a scotch-taped cardboard box.

Without understanding the the packaging (which is probably nsfw) I can't
really draw conclusions about which direction this case is headed in.

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quickthrowawayy
In a long distance relationship networking sex toys for remote-control is
blindingly obvious and super fun!

------
glasz
my goodness. sex toys + internet just gave me a great startup idea in the
dating space. oh my. who do i talk to?

