

Many criminals are intelligent people with good heads for business and healthy appetites for risk - daviday
http://www.economist.com/world/na/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10880952

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inovica
I once did some research into this whilst at university. Basically the
criminal mindset is often very very close to an entrepreneurial one - if not
the same. It comes down to value systems generally with the individual,
although entrepreneurs are often found to bend or change the rules to suit
themselves. For example Richard Branson, when he first started, ended up in
trouble with the law as he exploited what an export-import system for records,
ultimately ending up with a heavy fine, though no jail time.

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astine
Right, lets take violent criminals and place them in upper management. I can
see it now:

"I used to be a drug dealer; now I'm your boss. Now get to work bitch before I
cap, I mean, fire your ass!"

...

In all seriousness, I see a danger in using people who have a demonstrated
disregard for the lives and property of others. At least with the current
individuals we have reasonable doubt as to whether they would kill or steal to
get their way. In highering ex-conns we know.

~~~
inovica
Is it nature or nurture that makes people this way? The debate on that will go
on forever, however it has been demonstrated that through good education
people (not all I agree) can discover that they have a true worth and can make
money whilst giving back to society. Its bringing these people back into
society that they probably felt outside of. According to the story, the people
who have been on the program have a very low potential for re-offending. This,
combined with criminal -> entrepreneur I think is a positive step. Breaking
the cycle and giving people a purpose in life, embracing them, can make a
difference

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Shooter
"Breaking the cycle and giving people a purpose in life, embracing them, can
make a difference"

This article doesn't remind me of the gang stuff in Freakonomics so much as it
reminds me of a bonus feature on the "Sicko" DVD. Michael Moore goes to a
prison in Norway that allows everyone, including murderers and rapists, the
opportunity to work amongst the general population doing fulfilling work.
[They mention a prisoner, for example, that killed two people with a chainsaw.
He was allowed to finish his sentence by working in the forest freely with a
chainsaw!] Norway doesn't have a death sentence, nor even a life sentence. The
maximum prison sentence is 21 years. And, by the way, Norway usually has the
lowest murder rate in the world.

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icky
> She is particularly interested in people who have already demonstrated these
> skills—for example by running a successful drug business or achieving a high
> rank in a gang.

That's what you list under "Extracurricular Activiites" on your Harvard
application! ;-)

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amohr
There was actually a study at the University of Chicago that Steven Levitt
writes about in "Freakonomics." A sociology student got really close with a
gang in downtown chicago - and it turned out that the local gang leader had a
business degree and kept fastidious records of the gang's income and
expenditures.

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uuilly
I think this is a great idea and I can relate. I was a wayward youth. I never
did anything serious but I was constantly on the wrong side of the law and my
success / failure rate was pretty impressive. Though it's not as bad anymore
think I was just allergic to authority. I eventually turned my need for risk
and self determination to mountaineering and entrepreneurship. A life of crime
is very dynamic and intense. Quite similar to startup life. I can see this
program being successful and I wish these gentlemen luck.

As for the moral dilemma people are concerned about, I don't think it's such a
problem. My rebellion was much more rooted in an inability to walk lockstep
through a life of following directions than a rotten soul. I tended toward and
environment that I thrived in, one of raw risk and raw reward. A program that
recognizes these folks and steers them away from the brink sounds like a
really good idea. The only laws I've broken in the last 8 years have been
speeding and running stop signs. And I refuse to ever give that up.

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Mistone
many people startoff in bad situations - may be hard to believe but not
everyone gets pushed along the path of grad'ing from a good school. there is
no excuse for hurting and stealing from others, but we must also recognize
that the odds are so stacked against poor people that there options are very
slim. poverty is a major problem in the US, currently the best solution the
govt has come up with is build more prisons to house the poor when they get
arrested in the projects.

according to pg, it all comes down to building something people want, many
people in prison don't want to come back, and want to actually do something
legit with their lives, building a business is the best way I know to change
your life and make something of yourself. bravo. next step is too make sure
they get a bit of tech skills with the biz classes.

~~~
strey
This is from talks I've had with parole officers. Often, the prisons can
merely act as Criminal U. Coming out it is hard to get a legitimate job, and
they've learned more criminal skills while in prison. It's much easier to just
go right back into the criminal lifestyle, a vicious cycle.

However, a concern I have with this program is that gang members can bring
their criminal connections with them into business. In times of tough
competition they may be tempted to use these connections.

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daniel-cussen
YConbinator

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joshwa
Somebody's been watching too much "The Wire" ...

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ojbyrne
My main problem is that this is for people who got caught. If all criminals
have something in common with entrepreneurs, then it seems logical to assume
that this program isn't getting the cream of the crop (those who don't get
caught). Though perhaps that group succeeds without any help or notoriety.

~~~
Mistone
nice point - but just as failing does not make you a bad entrep., getting
caught doesn't mean your a bad crook, repeat offenders my be the most
determined.

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ssharp
I've always been fairly impressed with organized crime's ability to locate new
areas to exploit.

Then again, how much of an advantage is it to use "illegal leverage"? I'm sure
Movable Type would have a larger install base if they could send goons to the
doorsteps of those using Wordpress.

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falsestprophet
I want to know how she is managing to spend $3.2 million on just 39 prisioners
($82,051/prisioner).

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emmett
It sounds like it could be a promising program, but my question is:

Why do you have to go to prison to be offered a chance like that?

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dgabriel
If you can afford a suit, have an idea, and can find a mentor, you're leagues
ahead of the men with criminal records. This program provides a framework for
people who have nothing and are likely to relapse, and it helps integrate them
into normal society.

If you're already integrated (which I'll unfairly assume you are), then you
probably wouldn't get much out of this program. You'd be better off joining
the local rotary club.

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staunch
The story about the drug-dealing gang in Freakonomics comes to mind.

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pistoriusp
This _really_ explains my previous boss.

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nazgulnarsil
has anyone read The Demolished Man? :)

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Shooter
No. Summary?

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nazgulnarsil
a businessman plots to kill a rival in a Minority Report esque future where
"peepers" (people with esp) are used to prevent crime.

it draws some interesting conclusions on the subject of this thread.

~~~
Shooter
Thanks. I just picked it up from the library.

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edw519
yconfinorator

