
No to Chrome - dredmorbius
https://notochrome.org
======
azdv
Interesting, I just moved back to Firefox after many years of using Chrome.

I have to admit, it has gotten a lot faster recently, Firefox sync is working
very well, and the Firefox Android app is a pleasure to use (being able to
install uBlock origin is a huge plus).

Anything else I missed on Chrome was easily solved by an addon, or a small
tweak on userChrome.css (customizing the browser interface by overriding its
CSS is amazing btw).

~~~
oefrha
I can’t solve highlighting search results in the scroll bar, and apparently I
search a surprising amount and am absolutely crippled without scroll bar
highlighting, so I’ll stick to Chrome until I can’t (e.g. when content
blocking is crippled).

~~~
observr9
>> ... highlighting search results in the scroll bar...

This. I find any browser that doesn't do that to be unusable. The alternative,
in long documents or source code, is to blindly hit NEXT and visit all
locations where a search term is found rather than scrolling quickly to see
the different context regions.

I tried a plug-in or two but they were not nearly as functional as the native
Chrome experience.

~~~
oefrha
Glad I’m not insane, or not the only one insane. Whenever I read one of these
highly-voted “I switched to Firefox and nothing’s degraded” post I wonder if
I’m the only one searching on web pages, or if I’m the only one whose
productivity is massively boosted by knowing where search results are located
and how they are clustered at a glance. But then, modern code editors do tend
to have this feature, so apparently it is important to a non-negligible
audience.

~~~
oarsinsync
> modern code editors do tend to have this feature, so apparently it is
> important to a non-negligible audience

Sorry, but as far as the modern browsers are concerned, we coders are a
negligible market to cater for. The number of non-coder browser-users is
orders magnitude higher than the number of coders.

~~~
oefrha
Not saying coders are a non-negligible audience (although I’d say coders _are_
a non-negligible segment of Firefox user base). My assumption is that the
percentage of coders who value scroll bar highlighting is comparable to the
percentage of those among all web users who read and search web pages of
nontrivial length, since there’s hardly anything about this feature that’s
specifically beneficial to coding.

This and the fact that I heard all the “switched to Firefox and nothing’s
degraded” comments from coders, and upvoted by coders.

------
ropiwqefjnpoa
Even if you have no issue with Google, this is still a good idea to encourage
competition. Honestly, Chrome is not as good as it used to be anyway. For me,
Google Maps and Waze are the hardest things to kick. And YouTube...

~~~
lallysingh
OpenStreetMap had solid data, but my periodic attempts at finding a good app
haven't been successful.

~~~
maze-le
Have you tried OSMand ([https://osmand.net/](https://osmand.net/)). It is not
very pretty, but I definitly love the "offline" feature and bicycle maps.

~~~
namibj
You an combine with brouter to get awesome elevation0-respecting foot and bike
routes. This works all fully offline, btw.

------
jmstfv
I have been using Firefox for several years now. Energy management is still an
unsolved problem on MacOS (Firefox 71 on 10.14.6). They have been making
improvements in the last several releases, but "Avg Energy Impact" remains
around 40 for me (when browsing web pages, higher when streaming video).

I also noticed how different colors are between Chrome and Firefox. That
becomes more obvious in the dark mode.

[https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=44872](https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=44872)

~~~
mrpopo
The comments from noel@chromium.org in this bug report are scary.

"We're not doing as the spec tells us to, BUT that probably gives us
performance gains, most users don't care about it anyway, I prefer it that
way, webdevs should fix it, we should fix the JPEG standard instead (!?)..."

Why so much resistance?

~~~
Izkata
> most users don't care about it anyway

Our designer was pissed off when we discovered this bug, which explained why
Chrome was the only program that displayed RGB values differently from all the
others (not just browsers). She'd been careful about standardizing and
tweaking colors we already used to work better for people with colorblindness,
much of which was thrown out the window on Chrome. Not to mention issues
matching the PNGs and SVGs she created for the site.

Quick edit:

> Why so much resistance?

Comment 34:

> Chromium developers have previously stated this won't be supported for
> reasons mentioned in this old post.

> [https://www.webkit.org/blog/73/color-
> spaces/](https://www.webkit.org/blog/73/color-spaces/)

From that link (posted in 2006):

> The big hurdle that we ran into, though, was with the drawing we did not
> control, namely the Flash plug-in. The problem is that designers specify
> colors in Flash and colors in CSS in the Web page, and they expect those
> colors to match. Because Flash’s drawing isn’t correcting to sRGB, if we did
> it in Safari, there would be color mismatches all over the place. These
> mismatches look far worse than if we just don’t correct at all.

Isn't Flash gone from Chrom(ium) now?

------
hutzlibu
I don't think it makes much sense to mix it all up.

You don't like google? Well don't use it. And yes, adblocking makes sense to
avoid googleads.

But the browser is something different. And to avoid the googleintegration of
chrome but like the browser like me (mostly for dev tools) just use chromium.

Also, some remarks on the site makes it less trustworthy

"Midori includes private browsing which is said to be “totally anonymous” and
fast."

No it is not. Neither totally anonymous nor very fast. Quite sluggish for me.

------
AVTizzle
They really miss an opportunity to say WHY anywhere on the landing page,
instead going straight to: "Chrome is bad. Here's some alternatives."

~~~
FussyZeus
They don't say Chrome itself is bad, and therefore do not seek to explain it.
The page is less a technical break down and more a call to action ala
activism. Chrome itself isn't an issue, it's one of many tentacles, and one of
the bigger ones, leading back to Google.

~~~
asdfman123
If you're arguing for something you need the full argument. Not everyone is
starting with the assumption that Google is bad.

I know Google isn't a completely benign force in the universe but I haven't
been properly convinced I should boycott them.

~~~
FussyZeus
> If you're arguing for something you need the full argument.

No you don't. In fact, for many rhetorically primed things, such as opposition
to Google, and especially in the realm of activism, explaining over and over
why you're doing a thing is often not done because it's not necessary.

Every environmental protest doesn't need to include explanations of the Exxon
Valdez and BP's Deepwater Horizon. Once things reach a certain level of
cultural "it is known" explaining over and over is not required. If you're
attending a protest, you know about these things. If you don't, others at the
protest will tell you. If you do and aren't convinced, they aren't interested
in reaching you.

------
Antoninus
I’m quite satisfied with my move away from google products. Moved from gmail
to protonmail. Chrome to firefox and search to ddg. Ddg isn’t perfect though
and I find myself using !g tag more often than I’d like.

~~~
cyberpunk
Try !s instead -- same results as google (apparently) but via startpage which
supposedly doesn't track..

I don't really understand how startpage is able to operate such a service, I
assume it's maybe because if google started trying to stop them it would be
rather hypocritical?

~~~
RealStickman
Starpage is now owned by an advertising company. I wouldn't rely on them not
tracking me.

~~~
smush
I have also hopped to Qwant / DDG for their proxied Bing search.

Keeping that in mind, doing a !s bang is probably better privacy-wise (bonus -
you get the same results) vs a !g bang, even if it is no longer as good as it
was.

------
throwaway234957
I've been a Google engineer for ~ 10 years. Reading things like their
reasoning are always so painful to me as an employee:

> Google will do everything it can to ensure its ability to extract
> information about you [...] even without your consent and sometimes in
> direct opposition to existing national and international laws.

... and...

> Google is an information colonialist who want to seize all information both
> online and in real life – irrespective of who should have the right to
> access it"

Then I have to turn around and try to justify that I need obfuscated
aggregated data about how our users use my product to determine what feature
to work on.

Or I have to spend half a day going through user data sensitivity training
about fictional consumer footwear. Again. Because I have to do it quarterly,
even though the content doesn't change.

Or I write up a design doc where more than half of it is explaining how
collecting what users could actually see on a page isn't PII, and it's being
aggregated anyway, and we don't capture, target, or in any way interact with
users under 13, and that the content team really does need this data because
they use it to decide what to serve to the user next time so that the user
feels like the experience is new and fresh and more interesting, and that if
we see fewer then {x} unique users over a given period of time we'll literally
delete the data to make sure that nobody can combine it to build any sort of
PII profile, despite the fact that the entire table's data retention is {y}
months anyway.

I get that it feels like Google sucks all this data in. And this data could be
put together in various ways. And it's big and scary and opaque. And nobody
outside knows what is ___really_ __happening with this data, regardless of
what the TOS says. But I can 't imagine any level of transparency that would
satisfy people. Either it's too detailed and we get accused of burying the
data in legalese, or it's too thin and we get accused of being purposefully
vague.

Rant over. I have a design doc to write.

------
tiborsaas
Not really well argued (not at all actually) for a non-techie user who at most
does email, youtube, work and shopping...

They are probably 99%.

The site feels like it's authored with a tin-foil hat on.

~~~
oehpr
I agree with this.

While I agree with the rhetoric of this site, this site really is just empty
rhetoric.

The "why" on this site is, in my opinion, a terrible, ineffective, dogmatic
argument. I agree with the dogma, but I'm not the one that needs convincing.

------
saagarjha
Their browsers website ([https://notochrome.org/find-a-new-
browser/](https://notochrome.org/find-a-new-browser/)) makes it somewhat
difficult to understand that Firefox is also available as an option on macOS
and iOS. Plus it has a link to Midori that looks like it's been taken over by
scam.

~~~
vxNsr
The midori thing is weird... the page appears to be unfinished, checking
wayback archive shows that the whole project went through a rough patch and is
likely on life support if even alive anymore. for a while the homepage was
regular wordpress blog feed. sometime at the start of this year they updated
it to its current state. They also claim to have merged with the Astian
Foundation, but that website also appears unfinished, with lorem ipsum
throughout and a gmail email address.

------
zelly
If the _only_ reason to not use Chrome is Google, then you are in luck because
Chromium is open source software with a permissive license. There are several
libre forks of it, the best-maintained one being Brave. Nightly builds of
plain Chromium are available from googlesource. You could also get community
builds of Chromium from many package managers. You would only have to rely on
Google for the extensions store, but that's not any worse than Firefox's case
because there is only one source for Mozilla addons as well.

So for me to switch from Chromium to Firefox would require an argument on
technical or UX merits, and so far Firefox is currently worse across the
board.

[https://arewefastyet.com/](https://arewefastyet.com/)

------
azangru
Chrome/ium is a wonderful web development environment. Can't see myself moving
away from it any time soon.

~~~
digitarald
Firefox DevTools member here. If you have tried them recently, I'd love your
feedback on what's blocking you.

~~~
purple_ducks
not op - 1 click clear storage/site data button.

Do any of the firefox devs use chrome dev tools to see what's missing in
FF/nice to have?

~~~
RonanTheGrey
Agree with this. Clearing site data is more verbose than it needs to be.

------
city41
There is also the degoogle subreddit:
[https://old.reddit.com/r/degoogle/](https://old.reddit.com/r/degoogle/)

------
petjuh
Is Chrome a bad browser? I feel that unlike IE6 vs Firefox, Chrome is not
inferior to the competition and in fact moves faster, not slower towards
innovation.

~~~
davedx
Chrome is technically excellent software. This is all about how the company
Google conducts its business.

------
tomaszs
Less Google, more internet. Simple as that

~~~
mxuribe
If by "internet" you mean the more traditional thought of internet with all of
its __decentralized __goodness (and services and such), then YES 1000 times!!

~~~
tomaszs
This is exactly what i think of. Internet can become do much more than it is
now

------
emptybottle
Safari is my default browser and it works for me, along with DDG.

I may switch to Firefox at some point, but currently there's a long standing
bug that breaks audio with multi-channel audio interfaces (FF does not adhere
to the mac system output channel settings and instead defaults to channels
1-2)

The only site I need chrome to use is google meet, naturally. Which, if you've
turned on automatic closed captioning and seen it perform speech-to-text with
user attribution in real time, is horrifying by itself.

~~~
mepiethree
Do Apple/Safari offer great privacy?

~~~
emptybottle
Apple's marketing team says yes
[https://www.apple.com/privacy/](https://www.apple.com/privacy/)

Jokes aside it's not perfect and there are different shades of "great"
depending on what that means to you personally. But I do trust Apple over
Google since their business model is not so aligned with mass scale data
collection.

------
monkeynotes
Losing Chrome doesn't necessarily stop you being tracked. If you make a vacuum
it will be filled by someone else. I am not suggesting apathy but opting out
just makes holes for someone else to fill. And as we have seen in the past
competition is great but it quickly gets amalgamated behind the scenes, just
look at the alcohol industry. All those brands look like healthy competition,
but it's largely one parent company.

You can imagine that a young Instagram or What's App could have been on the
safe list of alternate social platforms, but Facebook bought them both.
Firefox isn't impervious to a change of management and ownership 5-10 years
down the line.

So what you are left with is using esoteric applications and social spaces
that no one really cares about. That's analogous to living off the grid. It
just isn't really suitable to the majority of people and as such it isn't a
solution at all.

The problem isn't Chrome or Google per se, it's technology. We should be
pressuring the big guns to conform to our needs, not opting out and abandoning
the people who benefit from large social platforms and convenient, well
supported applications.

~~~
nine_k
The logic is simpler.

The makers of Firefox (and apparently Safari) do have an incentive to keep
your privacy.

The makers of Chrome have an incentive to keep you tracked.

So it's _not_ the technology, it's business models. (Basically it's the rude
awakening to TANSTAAFL.)

~~~
monkeynotes
What I am hearing is it's not right/fair/moral for businesses to compete with
personal data as their primary asset. The proposed solution is for a small
subsect of the technical elite to walk away. That really, really does not
solve anything except an individual's problem.

The solution is to put pressure on legislators to prevent companies like
Google and Facebook trading your data to fund their business. This could
result in Google/Facebook charging for their services, and maybe that's a
really good thing. People would have to think about how much social media
means to them and not ignore the hidden cost of their privacy.

~~~
nine_k
If you give your data to them, it's legitimate for them to use the data. You
literally signed away your rights when accepted their ToS.

I would go for clearer definitions of what personal data are, several most
important kinds of it. Maybe a regulation should require that ToS clearly
state how these data are going to be collected, accessed, and stored. Much
like with medical or financial records.

Then most users would just make more informed decisions, and that might also
inform their online behavior and expectations.

People are mostly not dumb, they just need clear information.

------
ssn
Contributing the diversity of the web is an important action that all of us
should be committed to.

Read Zeldman's "Browser diversity starts with us."
[http://www.zeldman.com/2018/12/07/browser-diversity-
starts-w...](http://www.zeldman.com/2018/12/07/browser-diversity-starts-with-
us/)

~~~
AnIdiotOnTheNet
The battle is already lost. There's really only two serious options today for
browser engines, which is even fewer than there are for OSs! And the reason is
the same: it is far too complicated to create new implementations of either.

------
nytesky
Is there anyway to do multiple profiles on iOS firefox or any non-chrome
browsers? That is one feature I will miss from Chrome on iOS.

And honestly, the profile manager on Firefox is annoying, since you have to
start from command line to access and it can't run multiple instances/profiles
in parallel.

~~~
Analemma_
The profile manager is annoying, but at least for me, Containers do about 95%
of what I used profiles for, and they are much more manageable: you can right-
click a link and use "Open in new container".

~~~
nytesky
I guess I want to have an existing login session, like FFUser1 with its
bookmarks cookies etc, and then another FFUser2 with seperate bookmarks, etc
-- containers are transient correct, so I would have to login each time?

------
lcall
I still use Chromium (and Iridium, a derivative that hopefully doesn't send
info to Google), specifically on OpenBSD, for reasons summarized here (lower
chance of privilege escalation, limiting bad behavior):
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21566041](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21566041)

(...and discussed further in the parents of the above link, like:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21559122](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21559122)
or the full recent related discussion here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21557309](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21557309)
).

Given which, I might switch to Firefox for _some_ uses after the next OpenBSD
release where it will have pledlge/unveil support (preventing it from
accessing the computer beyond config-specified limits).

Edit: One thing I wish I knew about firefox is a way, without extensions/add-
ons, to limit which sites can use javascript/images/etc., and/or to open
multiple config tabs at once to quickly turn those on by exception for
occasional specific sites, as I do with chrome. Exception lists, even better.
This was discussed a little bit at those above links.

~~~
RonanTheGrey
> to limit which sites can use javascript/images/etc

The new privacy tools allow you to tune this from the url bar, but I think it
only applies to cookies, javascript and trackers.

> and/or to open multiple config tabs at once

yeah that's the sticky part. It only allows one open config tab unfortunately.

------
mrbonner
I love Firefox and moved back from Chrome in 2018. But, occasionally there are
websites that just don't work in Firefox and work in Chrome/Safari. For
example, go to [https://my.t-mobile.com](https://my.t-mobile.com) And I will
see:

502 Bad Gateway The server returned an invalid or incomplete response.

Firefox Web Console reports an error: "The character encoding of the HTML
document was not declared. The document will render with garbled text in some
browser configurations if the document contains characters from outside the
US-ASCII range. The character encoding of the page must be declared in the
document or in the transfer protocol."

I'm not sure at this point what the issue could be, and why it works for
Chrome/Safari. I don't have any extensions that could alter the requests or
responses (i.e https everywhere, CORS, etc...)

------
onesmallcoin
I work with chromium using chromes debug protocol (CDP) to do automation.
You'd be suprised how much of the browser your dealing with as a facade- they
sell things like a headless browser that don't oblige by the most basic of
requests given to the browser e.g hide all the scrollbars that in addition to
using double the resources and taking twice as long to preform any operations
I tell you that thing looks shiny on the surface but their is nothing their I
think the work should be done on building and making webkit, blink and gecko
better as the referece implementations before we try and yet again make
something shiny that can barely do the job it should be

~~~
onesmallcoin
also no support for plugins web interfaces on chrome headless meaning every
time you want to test a plugin you have to bring up a virtual X11 server to
deal with it

------
yellow_postit
I only keep a Chrome browser around to access Google properties like Google
Maps or Gmail which are painfully slow in Firefox. It feels like old IE days
where there are sites that only really work in 1 browser.

------
brianzelip
Does anyone know the Firefox dev tools equivalent of Chrome dev tools
"JavaScript contexts" drop down menu? I'm not sure how to describe it, but
here are two screenshots from a tutorial where I saw it:

1\. With mouse hovering over the drop down menu showing the displayed tool tip

[https://imgur.com/a/16lCRWg](https://imgur.com/a/16lCRWg)

2\. With clicked on drop down menu showing the "javascript contexts"

[https://imgur.com/a/SPZuvWr](https://imgur.com/a/SPZuvWr)

~~~
digitarald
DevTools member here: We have a more powerful target switching (hidden) in the
toolbar but are also working to better expose JS context switching early next
year.

Debugger's new threads panel also solves this partially when you pause in a
thread.

Are your use cases extensions, workers or iframes?

~~~
brianzelip
Thanks for all of your team's work! It's a critical tool that I love and use
often.

My use case is more of, I saw something in the chrome tools that I didn't
recognize from FF. I don't do much js debugging beyond console logging. But
I'm starting a PWA project and will be making a service worker, so sounds like
this functionality might be relevant.

ps - enjoyed this Changelog podcast w/ Jason Laster of the FF DevTools team,
[https://changelog.com/podcast/247](https://changelog.com/podcast/247).

------
nojvek
> We can no longer pretend that Google is a positive force in the world.

It's amazing how Google has gone from a "do no evil", where everyone
celebrated every new thing Google did to "it is the evil"

Hard to win that brand back once it's tainted. May be the whole alphabet move
was so Google's brand wouldn't taint it's other brands. But by association,
Waymo is Google-ish and they'll be seen as invading on privacy just like its
sibling companies.

------
pyython
Switching to Brave has worked out great for me. All of my extensions work,
browsing experience is almost exactly the same, etc. I love the built-in
privacy features (Tor is a keyboard shortcut away!). The one issue that I've
run into is that the built-in ad blocker is a little aggressive sometimes to
the point where it breaks page functionality. At those times, I just
deactivate it for that page and go about my business.

~~~
flavius29663
Brave is still based on chromium/blink. You might get more privacy, but you're
still supporting the one monopoly of the web, Google deciding over all the web
standards going forward. That is the real bad thing

------
lavishsaluja
I want to try another browser too. I am not much comfortable with Safari. Can
someone compare Brave browser with firefox? Are there any other better
alternatives?

------
onreact
Also remember that many "other" browsers are also based on Chrome or just
customized Chrome versions. Think Opera, Brave, Vivaldi etc.

------
Jowsey
The one thing Chrome has which makes it 1000x better for me is the ability to
search a site in the url bar itself by entering the url and pressing tab (?).
For example I've used it on alternativeto.net a lot. I personally do use
Firefox more anyway but it makes Chrome so easy when I do use it.

------
TekMol
Nice black and white design.

I would remove the light grey bars behind the logos.

Clicking on the images at the bottom should open the respective website
instead of the image.

The "why" page should mention amp. Instead of ranking websites by user
friendlyness, via boosting amp they rank them by affiliation with Google. I
think that is the most evil thing Google did so far.

~~~
missblit
As long as we're providing website critiques:

* "Google want to automate us" should be "Google wants to automate us"

* They should consider making the page about why not to use chrome in particular more discoverable from the main page

* "Google have been accused of ensuring other Google products don’t work on Chrome" should be "Google have been accused of ensuring other Google products only work on Chrome"

* They block Google search from indexing the page, but they _also_ block all other crawlers. Why not let DuckDuckBot through?

------
theknarf
>Error establishing a database connection

------
husainalshehhi
One of the things I like about google chrome is the omnibar: i can search
within a website directly from the bar. For example, I can type
amazon.com<TAB> and then I can directly search. This also works for many of my
company's internal websites. Can firefox do that?

~~~
eythian
Not sure what's built in, but you can definitely make it do that by right-
clicking on a search box and making a shortcut. I have 'wp' for wikipedia,
'yt' for youtube, etc.

~~~
faitswulff
Firefox's keywords are really nice in general. If you bookmark a URL, replace
a parameter in the URL with %s and assign the bookmark a keyword, you can use
the keyword with an argument to replace the parameter.

------
quotha
Does anyone use the Brave browser? I started a few days ago and it's a pretty
interesting idea.

~~~
scholia
Search the page and you'll find several mentions of Brave.

What I want to know is why someone would pick Brave instead of the Epic
Privacy Browser...

... though personally, I think it's far better to support Firefox as it's now
the only viable alternative browser that isn't based on Chrome.

Chrome is now so dominant that people can just ignore open web standards and
develop for Chrome instead. This is a Bad Thing.

~~~
robbrown451
I checked out Epics page, it says it is always in "private browsing mode."

So you never stay logged into anything? Private browsing has a purpose, but I
can't imagine being stuck always private browsing. That sounds painful.

------
docuru
Google is masking website content into their content. We need to make a move
before its too late

~~~
cies
How?

~~~
ThalesX
They scrape top results and show it directly in a box (think wikipedia, imdb,
lyric engines etc.) thus discouraging users from actually clicking the link.

Personally, I think it’s nice to have the content instantly available and not
having to go to a website for it but I can see how for content producers this
means wrapping their websites and making money out of their content.

~~~
RealStickman
Wasn't that something their search copied from ddg?

~~~
scholia
No. Google's OneBox, Ask’s Smart Answers, Microsoft’s Instant Answers, and
Yahoo Shortcuts all existed at least two years before DDG was even founded in
2008.

Also, DDG's "Instant Answers are open source and are maintained on GitHub,
where anyone can build or work on them".
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DuckDuckGo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DuckDuckGo)

It's not the same sort of massive web-scraping click-stealing operation as
Google's OneBox.

------
zneveu
Jumped from Chrome about six months ago and overall quite impressed with
Firefox. My only complaint is that I can't seem to shake my preference for the
rounded tabs and UI of Chrome...

------
qxnqd
Who is behind this website?

~~~
aviraldg
> No to Chrome is an alliance led by Berlin based Eduardo Smith and UK based
> James Mullarkey.

~~~
qxnqd
Berlin based? Where's the impressum then?

~~~
tyingq
Isn't that only required for a commercial website?

~~~
maze-le
Technically yes, but... In front of several german courts simple web blogs and
other (definitely) non-commercial projects have lost their cases against
"competitors" (usually trigger happy shyster lawyers that see a quick way to
make easy money). The wording of the law states that every publication
platfrom that operates "Geschäftsmäßig" (like a business) is liable to have an
imprint. The courts have defined the word "Geschäftsmäßig" as meaning
regularly -- so it is only important how regularly you post, not if you make
money with it or not.

------
matty22
Can anyone recommend a web-based, privacy respecting alternative to Google
Docs/Sheets? It's the one part of Google products I haven't found a good
replacement for.

~~~
kgwxd
I wish LibreOffice had a calendar with an API, accessible from Calc. The only
thing keeping my Google account open is a sheets/calender script that does
some financial forecasting based on my calendar entries.

------
irrational
I like to think I'm such a trendsetter. The truth is I started using Firefox
before Chrome ever existed and was too lazy to ever switch.

------
carokann
Sold my soul to google long time ago but i'll join this crowd is that manifest
3 shit happens.

------
PretzelFisch
Is it better to push people to firefox and safari or include Opera and Edge as
well so we don't get another defacto standard?

~~~
greggman2
You should definitely not be pushing anyone to Safari. Apple's monopoly on
browser engines on iOS gives them veto power on all web standards since iOS
uses have no alternate browser engines (like Firefox)

------
greatgib
It would be nice to have a nice designed logo with this motto. To print
stickers with that.

------
lykahb
On mobile Firefox with uBlock Origin addon is so much better than Chrome.

------
voisin
Am I the only one that uses Safari?

------
RenRav
If this gains enough traction I can see Google releasing a product as "Noto"
to poison search results.

~~~
kps
You're about five years late.

[https://www.google.com/get/noto/](https://www.google.com/get/noto/)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noto_fonts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noto_fonts)

------
NamPNQ
jk: i think we need nochrome.google domain and also need noyoutube nogmail...

------
msla
qutebrowser is better than both Firefox and Chrome at respecting privacy.

------
elchin
Isn't Google the biggest donor to Mozilla foundation?

~~~
rebelwebmaster
Google pays Mozilla Corporation to be the default search engine in Firefox. I
wouldn't classify that as a donation, though.

------
ossworkerrights
I am quite satisfied with using chrome. Once there will be suitable
alternative i will gladly move away from it tho, just a breath of fresh air.

~~~
alex_duf
Out of curiosity what makes Firefox or any other web browser fail to be a
suitable alternative to you?

~~~
techntoke
Firefox doesn't have hardware video decoding support for Linux, so watching
videos on Firefox is terrible compared to Chromium.

------
jpkeisala
I wonder as being privacy focused, why did they not put Brave as recommended
browser instead of Firefox?

~~~
ailideex
I'm sure you look you can find something which tells you that Microsoft is
also privacy focused in their marketing material. Heck even google says they
are focused on privacy:

[https://policies.google.com/faq?hl=en-
US](https://policies.google.com/faq?hl=en-US)

> We know security and privacy are important to you – and they are important
> to us, too. We make it a priority to provide strong security and give you
> confidence that your information is safe and accessible when you need it.

I guess they should just shut down the site now.

------
StacyRoberts
I've never installed chrome unless I had to to test and fix a bug in it. I
always use ff except on my android phone. By the second out third click ff
crashed on my android phone. It makes me so sad that I can't use it on my
phone.

It makes me so happy that people are finally realizing how evil Google is and
pushing to end them.

They are so bad.

------
aykutcan
That claims about Youtube. Especially "YouTube has contributed to a growth of
the flat earth conspiracies at the expense of scientific fact."

Do you understand how algorithm or statistics works?

They are giving people what they want. Freedom. People is watching that videos
and made them more popular. They are free to share their thoughts.

Even google can't predict all the negativeness and prevent them with computer
systems. Expecting being a god from google is unfair.

I think this is hate for google more than arguments against google.

I dislike chrome and using Firefox for a long time. But i don't think this is
objective and completely true.

~~~
davidu
You know this is a very superficial understanding of what has happened right?
And it doesn't capture how the design of the algorithms are actually shaping
peoples views? The idea that it just gives you what you want is just not an
accurate understanding of what is happening.

I suggest you read the work being published by Stanford U and Renee DiResta --
[https://twitter.com/noUpside](https://twitter.com/noUpside)

