
This white powder will kill me one day - DanielRibeiro
http://jacquesmattheij.com/this-white-powder-will-kill-me-one-day
======
santry
One day about 3 years ago I quit sugar "cold turkey." At the time I was rather
highly motivated by seeing a friend nearly killed by necrotizing fasciitis.
(Not that his illness was sugar related. It's just that seeing a close friend
nearly die puts things in perspective.)

My taste changed within just a couple of weeks. By the third or fourth week if
I accidentally drank sweetened iced tea instead of unsweetened I would nearly
spit it out due to the awful taste. I also cut out all artificial sweeteners,
effectively eliminating any experience of sweetness from my diet. I think
previously I had drunk so much Diet Coke and eaten so many sugary things that
I had conditioned myself to need that sweet taste on a regular schedule. I
think one thing that helped was that I started making tea using high-quality,
whole-leaf teas from adagio.com. They have such interesting flavors, I find
they don't need sugar.

I'm not sure I can speak to the work-related effects of not eating sugar since
I was spending most of the time in the hospital with my friend. I can say that
my overall mood became much more stable; there were no more mid-afternoon
crashes and I genearlly found I had more energy. Being about 360 pounds at the
time, this one dietary change was enough for me to lose 60 pounds over the
next 12 months while still leading a mostly sedentary lifestyle.

~~~
stcredzero
I have just quit sugar cold turkey. Carbohydrates in general, actually. (< 20
grams per day.) One thing that I will highly recommend to everyone who is
trying to do this: small amounts of powdered Psyllium supplement. The best
known brand in the US is Metamucil. This might set off some mental alarms, as
it is marketed as a "laxative." However, it's just a concentrated source of
soluble fiber that acts to bulk up material passing through the gut, helping
to keep it passing through. This prevents many of the disadvantages of eating
mostly foods that are rich in proteins and fats. The instructions on this
stuff allow for 1 to 3 doses per day. I'm only taking 1/2 a dose at any one
time, so it's acting more as a fiber supplement.

That said, I also cook and eat lots of vegetables. (Green beans are quick and
great! Just rinse them, steam them, and don't eat any inedible looking ends.
It's best if you don't overcook them.) I never feel run down after meals any
more like I used to, though I can still feel a bit tired after a particularly
high fat meal. On the whole, I have a lot more energy, though I have been told
that I'm a lot more irritable now. Maybe it's time to do some programming "in
anger?"

~~~
Ixiaus
There is a major misconception that all carbs are bad. Specifically bad
sources: refined sugar, high-fructose corn syrup (much worse than sugar),
grains (wheat - gluten, is the worst, worse than sugar; rice, etc...), and
legumes (particularly soy beans).

Sweet potatoes as carbs are very good for you; fruit (particularly pears,
apples, coconut - very good for you, pineapple, bananas).

The topic is quite complicated and difficult to navigate, but there's a lot of
good information out there. Particularly in the primal/paleo lifestyle (which
I think is a little bit extreme but the knowledge and rationale is sound).

~~~
shawnz
> high-fructose corn syrup (much worse than sugar)

> gluten, is the worst, worse than sugar

These sound like dubious claims to me. Do you have a citation?

~~~
ars
It's not just dubious it's wrong. Gluten is a protein, not a carb.

And to say legumes are bad when they are actually by far the best kind of carb
you can eat is nuts. (Nuts are good too.)

~~~
Ixiaus
Most people think bread is a carb, which there are many carbs coming from it -
you also get gluten in that mix. You're right that it is a protein [gluten]
and not a carb but this is a classic example of an unhelpful HN comment thread
where pedanticism is slowly taking over unless my writing has the quality of
oral debate speech followed by scientific citations.

~~~
ars
Bread is a carb and a protein, obviously.

You think you were helpful and I am not because you believe what you say. But
you have not stopped to consider that perhaps you are simply wrong and I am
calling you out on it.

Your problem is that you wrote something wrong - doubly wrong. You wrote that
gluten is a carb, and that it's bad for you. But not only is it not a carb,
it's also not bad for you unless you are sensitive to it. Wheat is what took
humanity from weak scattered encampments to full civilizations, it's not
called the staff of life for nothing.

And when you added the legumes are bad for you, all doubt I had if perhaps you
were right vanished.

~~~
Ixiaus
I never said you weren't helpful! I think you're being pedantic - asking for
sources on everything! If you ask for a scientific opinion on why something is
bad or not for you; you can come up with sources for both sides!

I'm telling you straight up, STOP being pedantic! This is a discussion forum,
not a scientific peer-review!

"...all doubt I had if perhaps you were right vanished." who the hell wants to
even have a reasoned conversation with you? I sure don't - I'm willing to be
educated or have my mind changed but now you're both being pedantic and
throwing insulting sentences into the mix COMPLETELY throwing out my desire to
be educated BY YOU.

Fuck off. You're an example of what's wrong with Hacker News IMHO - this used
to be a great place for conversation but its devolved heavily into a hostile
discussion environment.

~~~
ars
I asked for sources? Are you confusing me for other people who replied?

And I never said anything even remotely pedantic. (Thinking gluten is a carb
is not pedantic - it's wrong.)

You have been told you were wrong from a whole bunch of different people, but
somehow decided they were all me. It's interesting to speculate on why you did
that. A mental defense against being told you were wrong perhaps?

It's time for you to go restart your eduction on this matter from scratch -
and not from me.

------
dredmorbius
Buried lede: sugar is bad for you.

While the entry notes some well-known harms of sugar, it fails to note a few
thing points:

\- Sugar withdrawal can be modestly severe, but it's _not_ physiologically
habituating, and a couple of weeks of abstinence will get you through the
worst of it.

\- Quantity, quality, and timing matter. Keeping total carbohydrate low (~50 -
150g day) will minimize much of the effects. Keeping sugars/carbs mostly low-
glycemic minimizes the negative impacts. Consuming carbs in the morning or
post-exercise (when body stores are naturally depleted) puts them where they
can be utilized immediately (liver and muscle glycogen stores, not converted
to fats).

\- Much of the sugar in the standard American / standard western diet
(SAD/SWD) is in the form of hidden, added sugars in processed foods. A
teaspoon of added sugar in tea is minimal. The _10 teaspoons_ in a 12 oz. can
of Coke (or any other soft drink) are rather more. Or the sugars in various
canned, prepared, baked, or other foods. _Make your own food or eat raw /
natural / unprepared foods and you'll greatly reduce your sugar intake._

\- Exercise, both strength training and cardio, change _how_ your body
processes sugar, and greatly reduces the negative effects of same.

Something's going to kill you. Need not be sugar.

You have agency.

~~~
com2kid
> Sugar withdrawal can be modestly severe, but it's not physiologically
> habituating, and a couple of weeks of abstinence will get you through the
> worst of it.

Simple carbs spike serotonin levels, and then collapse them soon afterwards.
People want to feel good, so they eat more sugar, which leads to another
spike. This is by definition addictive!

It is also a vicious cycle. Too much sugar consumption can lead to obesity,
which can then lead to depression, and of course sugar is already a person's
go to treatment for feeling "down".

Thus the cycle continues.

~~~
dredmorbius
I probably should have said "phyiscally" rather than "physiologically".

Heroin withdrawal can kill.

Sugar withdrawal will not.

~~~
wiggins37
Actually, as someone who has treated many people over the past week for heroin
withdrawal, I would like to add that heroin withdrawal very very rarely kills
people unless they have an underlying medical condition like coronary artery
disease that can become worse with stress. On the other hand, alcohol, benzos,
and baclofen withdrawal are much more common ways that people die.

------
fatbird
Off the top of my head, a large part of his problem seems to be the need to
overdramatize issues like this.

If he's that biorythmically dependant upon sugar, then the likely problem is
that he's not getting sufficient sugar elsewhere in his diet. He could reduce
the sugar in his tea while adding fruit and likely achieve the same end more
effectively (while upping fibre intake, for example).

But phrasing this as a problem of addiction to a "poison" is a loaded approach
that closes off less dramatic and likely much more effective measures. And
honestly, if his weight's not a problem, then relax and enjoy your addiction--
you could have it a lot worse :)

~~~
JohnsonB
>adding fruit

Just a sidenote: fruits are carby, so you still have the same problem if you
replace wheat/sugar with fruit. They are slightly better for you because of
the balance of fiber, but if you just replace wheat and sugar for fruit you
are likely to end up similar health issues.

~~~
crazygringo
Even though an apple might have up to half the sugar of a 12-oz can of Coca-
Cola, somehow it affects my body completely differently.

From a Coke, you feel the stimulation and then the drop in energy afterwards.

An apple just makes me feel good. There's no over-stimulation like sugar, and
no drop in energy afterwards.

It's well known that the body processes sugars in foods very differently
(sodas, honey, fruits, etc.). Unfortunately, not much is known about why or
how, from what I know.

But something to keep in mind: humans have been eating fruits, presumably as
long as we've existed. Drinks and desserts with concentrated cane sugar is a
new thing. It wouldn't be surprising if evolution has adapted us well to the
former (in moderation), but not that latter.

~~~
caf
You don't think that difference could have a lot to do with the caffiene
content of the Coca-Cola?

~~~
crazygringo
Definitely not -- a Coke stimulates for maybe an hour, then leaves you with
less energy for around an hour. Like everything else with lots of processed
sugar.

Whereas caffeine stimulates for several hours, and I never feel _less_ energy
afterwards with caffeine.

The effect is definitely the sugar.

------
msutherl
The reason that peer pressure to do drugs is so intense is that for those
doing the pressuring, you look like a crazy person.

They look at the vast majority of people in their environment who do drugs on
a regular basis, often throughout their entire lives, and appear to be fine
and happier for it. Then they look at you and, since you are in the minority,
immediately conclude that you are overreacting.

I grew up with a few friends who abstained from drugs completely. As they grew
older and gained perspective, they slowly let down their guard and most of
them fell into familiar patterns of reasonably healthy, occasional drug use. A
few others had drug problems.

The fact is that a minority of people have the right mix of personality,
circumstances and chemistry to become addicts. To make the decision to abstain
from any kind of drug use, you are eliminating the small chance that you could
become an addict, which is commendable. But what you don't know is that
eliminating that chance comes at a great cost. What your peers were trying to
tell you was "dude, trust us, it's worth the risk!" A good friend might have
said, "friend, if you never take risks, you'll never experience the full
richness of life!"

If I were your friend, I would say, quite honestly, that I cannot, almost as a
rule, trust anybody who has not tried a variety of mind altering substances.
The insight that they provide is, in my opinion, essential to developing an
open mind and a deeper perspective on life. Moreover I would be wary of
anybody so, to me, risk averse.

But your argument would still be that I don't properly understand the risks.
Perhaps that is true, but here is my point:

I respect your decision to eliminate the risk of your becoming an addict, but
I don't think that it is appropriate for you to be indignant. Rather, you
should be sorrowful.

~~~
chops
> I cannot, almost as a rule, trust anybody who has not tried a variety of
> mind altering substances.

 _EXCUSE ME?_ I'm sorry, but _give me a fucking break!_

I work hard, hit my deadlines, contribute to open source, am loyal to my
friends, ready to help at the drop of a hat, and I'm risk-taking enough to be
an entrepreneur, yet, _look out_ , I can't be trusted because I choose not to
smoke it up? How does that follow logically?

I've attended many parties through the years (the early ones were what are so
commonly called "drinking parties" because, well, they're college and high
school kids getting drunk), and I grew up in a family who enjoy with a few
beers after work and on the weekends.

And throughout this exposure, I've never once had even the _slightest_ itch to
actually partake, despite the incredible amounts of peer pressure. But I
attended the parties, I hung out with my friends and watched them get drunk
(and later high, as they experimented further), and never once I did think
"Hey, these conversations are so stimulating, I should totally do this too to
improve my cognitive faculty."

No, I thought "Hey, you continue doing what you're doing. Me? I'm going to go
back to playing the piano and talking with whomever is coherent enough to hold
a conversation, and tomorrow, we'll laugh about all the stupid shit you won't
remember doing."

Instead, watching folks get drunk, and holding conversations with folks who
were high has only helped to strengthen my complete lack of desire to do these
drugs. Not because of some aversion to risk, but because I just frankly don't
like what I see in people when they are under the influence - they're
generally just idiots.

And yet, despite all this, I know I can trust the trustworthy and not trust
the untrustworthy, and I do not hold it against someone if they choose to
enjoy certain recreational drugs. Indeed, despite my teetotalism, I paid for
the open bar at my wedding.

Frankly, your almost complete trust-wise dismissal based on such a trivial
criterion as "willingness to do drugs" is as closed-minded as I can imagine.
At least I haven't completely written off an entire section of the population
because of a disagreement in how we spend free time.

~~~
Alex3917
I don't see any reason to consider all those who haven't experienced various
altered states of consciousness to be inherently untrustworthy. That said, if
you haven't experienced these things then you probably can't fully understand
the large swaths of civilization that were inspired by them: art, language,
architecture, writing, film, religion, etc. And the odds are that if you can't
fully understand something, then you can't properly value it.

~~~
msutherl
What I was trying to express. I can't really have a deep relationship with
somebody who doesn't understand these things.

------
apaprocki
Personal anecdote: I just started a ~30-50g carb a day diet 15 days ago. I had
maybe 2 days of withdrawal from all the sugar/carbs I used to consume, but
afterwards had way more energy than I ever did in recent memory. (Assuming you
eat the right amount of fat/protein.) After 2 weeks I've also lost 10 lbs
(4.53 kg). I recommend everyone give it a try to see how it changes your daily
routine and general sense of health.

~~~
olliesaunders
Where do you get your energy from then? Are you just eating masses of fat and
protein?

~~~
crazygringo
That's usually the case. Colloquially known as the paleo diet.

The same as our ancestors did for tens of thousands of years. Remember, dense
carbohydrates like wheat and carb-rich potatoes are a very recent phenomenon
in human history.

~~~
nrlucas
Anatomical modernity of humans is about 200,000 years, flour processing is
around 30,000 years. Sorry, I fail to see that as being recent.

~~~
crazygringo
I'm curious, where are you getting 30,000 years from?

From what I know, any kind of significant flour processing arose together with
the agricultural revolution, which produces large quantities of wheat for the
first time. The agricultural revolution started around 12,000 years ago (but
then still had to spread), and Wikipedia mentions:

"It was discovered around 6000 BC that wheat seeds could be crushed between
simple millstones to make flour."

In widespread evolutionary terms, we've only been generally been eating flour
for a few thousand years.

 _Homo sapiens_ has been around for 200k years, but that is just the tip of
the iceberg of the much longer evolutionary process that led to us. We and our
ancestors have been eating meats, fats, fruits and vegetables for millions of
years.

So our high-carbohydrate flour-eating diet is certainly a sudden and recent
disruption of our diet, and it is reasonable to expect that there's no way
that, in just 100-200 human generations, the gene makeup of _homo sapiens_
could so quickly adapt in a healthy way to such a drastically different diet.

~~~
nrlucas
[http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/10/08/1006993107.abst...](http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/10/08/1006993107.abstract)

But in widespread use probably quite a bit less.

------
Zenst
I can see it now; Soft drink cans with sugar will start having to do pictures
akin to the smoking ones. First there will be the small label warning, then
the larger ones, then the full blown pictures of somebody out of a horror
movie type extreme. Heck even a picture of dirty British teeth (I'm a Brit so
I'm allowed that one pandering to cliché). It will happen eventually.

But that is only if people start using it irresponsibly, like anything, be it
water, any vitamin, in excess will not work out great for you. It is when it
starts having a noticeable effect upon many that laws and acts change. That is
one drive of change, but probably the first sign will be insurance forms
asking how many sugars you have in your coffee and how many per week/day.

But as long as I don't have to hovel outside a fire door in the poring rain to
get my sugar fix then I'm not too worried about my addiction, worry causes
more ill health than the excess sugar I consume and in that I raise my cup
(though I did use brown sugar and I'm talking the supermarket version).

~~~
jarin
Might I recommend spellcheck

~~~
Zenst
That I can do, involves copy and pasting but it has been done, I better
appologise for my grammer now, though feedback well receieved and thank you
for that.

~~~
tisme
Grammer? Appologise? receieved?

Maybe you can set your browser to use English as the default language, then
words that are spelled wrong will show up with a red underline.

------
jacquesm
I'm kind of surprised to see this one on HN, it definitely wasn't the
intention, there is no link to hacking here as far as I can see.

That said, now that it is there it is a great source of feedback, for all
those that have made constructive suggestions in this thread and in the
comments on the blog post, thank you _very much_ , and I will certainly take
some of those suggestions to heart and implement them.

~~~
gbog
I skimmed the comments and did not see this obvious suggestion: you are not
really drinking tea, you are drinking tea-coke. Just start drinking the real
stuff, a few leaves of green Chinese tea in hot water. I usually go for
longjing tea. It is a tad sour with chocolate fragrance. No one would ever add
sugar in this dope.

------
Ixiaus
It also sounds like you're addicted to caffeine. You're probably addicted to
Gluten as well.

The paleo/primal food lifestyle would probably interest you greatly.

(notably, sugar is my most major vice - I kicked gluten, caffeine, alcohol,
and many other substances a long time ago. I still consume wheat here and
there, but sugar (particularly in juice) is the worst.

------
ryanwaggoner
You're not alone: sugar is the only thing I'm really addicted to, other than
maybe the Internet.

The only thing that has worked for me is going completely cold turkey for my
two big sugar vices: candy and soda. I haven't had candy in about a year, and
I haven't touched soda in three or four years. It gets easier...I don't really
crave either of those things ever anymore. I still eat things that have sugar,
but I don't really go overboard with anything other than candy and soda, so
it's not a problem.

Quit cold turkey; some of us can't handle moderation for some things.

------
zdean
"Extra frustrating because I know just how bad taking in these quantities of
sugar is."

Well, the same thing can be said about anything. Drink water in excess and it
can and will kill you (the dose makes the poison). These pieces are
frustrating because they take something (fats, sugars, carbs, etc.) that is
perfectly healthy in moderation and within a balanced diet and position it as
a vice when in fact the vice is the person's over-indulgence. A better title
would have been: "Something that I consume too much of will kill me one day".

------
eavc
"I drink tea, lots of it, several liters per day...If I don’t drink my tea my
head feels like mush."

Sugar may be a red herring here. That sounds like a massive caffeine
dependency.

~~~
crazygringo
Yeah... several _liters_ a day?? That's absolutely insane. That is not healthy
_at all_.

~~~
wisty
AFAIK, there's only been one recorded death from lethal tea poisoning. I think
it was something like 14 liters a day.

200 cups a day can be lethal, but the water poisoning will probably get you
first.

The real dangers are alcohol + caffeine (the caffeine stops you getting tired,
so you can drink more), or caffeine powder (one spoon can kill you).

Several liters probably isn't healthy though.

~~~
eavc
The headline is pure hyperbole. He thinks he has a problem because he gets a
fuzzy head when he doesn't drink his tea. That's caffeine withdrawal.

~~~
jacquesm
I ruled out caffeine addiction already, it's the sugar.

~~~
eavc
I would really encourage you to revisit that assumption. I'm sorry to
challenge you on this, but unless the tea you drink has very low levels of
caffeine, you are ingesting quite a bit of the drug each day, levels that
would cause dependency and addiction. The fuzzy head thing is a typical
description of caffeine withdrawal.

Why do you think otherwise?

~~~
jacquesm
There are many kinds of tea, some with more, some with less caffeine. For a
lark I finally tried the lightest in caffeine tea that there is: hot water.
And as long as the sugar was there the same kick was present. As far as the
science of it is concerned, I have no clue what the exact pathways are but the
effect is tangible enough that I think I can rule out psychosomatic effects as
well, though it is always hard to be 100% sure of this.

~~~
eavc
Best of luck to you regardless. My opinion would be hard to change on this
issue without really exploring the details your caffeine consumption and the
particulars of how you became convinced that that's not what it is. I don't
want to badger you about it. Maybe just file this thought away somewhere.
Caffeine is a drug, and you may be ingesting large quantities of it daily.
That will affect you.

------
lubos
I'm reading this article while drinking bottle of Red Bull and eating
chocolate. Through the first paragraph I'm telling to myself "he is going to
talk about sugar, he is going to talk about sugar".

Then it comes. He says "Sugar" and I scream "Fuck!!!"

~~~
fingerprinter
You didn't get that from the title? You must be new here ;)

------
Kishin
I too was pretty much addicted to sugar. Mostly dessert-like foods and soda.
There are a few things that will help reduce the sugar cravings:

\- Eat a little more protein. No need to go crazy, but just have more protein.

\- Eat more fiber. Very few people eat enough fiber. Eat more fruits and
vegetables. Fruits are a great way to get some sugar, but the fructose in
fruit is absorbed more slowly than a cookie.

\- Have some cinnamon. I sprinkle a little cinnamon on everything.
Occasionally I'll even take a cinnamon tablet. Supposedly helps with cravings.

\- Drink more water. When I pretty much stopped having sugar I was having 3-4
liters (roughly a gallon) of water a day.

\- Eat good fats. Nuts, peanut butter, almond butter, avocados, etc. Helps
with cravings too.

\- And of course exercise. There are too many good things exercise does for
you.

I have pretty much stopped having sugar (other than in social situations i.e.
given a piece of birthday cake). I drink my coffee black, no sugar in my tea,
and don't drink any more soda.

------
gburt
It sure sounds like he's addicted to caffeine, and just happens to put sugar
in his tea.

~~~
philf
First I thought that, too, but he mentions explicitly that tea alone doesn't
work for him. So I tend to agree with what someone else on this thread said,
that he might need to simply up his intake of nutrients in his diet.
Especially protein and fat which produce more stable energy levels.

~~~
eavc
Unless he's drinking decaf, several liters of iced tea intake a day would
almost certainly indicate addiction and dependency.

Replace 'tea' in this article with cocaine. The cocaine alone doesn't do it
for him, he requires there to be some sugar in it. And then blaming the sugar
withdrawal for his fuzzy head.

That's basically what's happening here. Except that people tend to ignore that
caffeine is a drug that can have some pretty pronounced effects when used a
lot and over a long time.

~~~
nisa
> that caffeine is a drug that can have some pretty pronounced effects when
> used a lot and over a long time.

As an avid coffee-drinker - what are these effects? I've read upon caffeine
and I've found no clear evidence for permanent harm or good out of coffee.

~~~
eavc
Dependency is the big one relevant to the OP. Withdrawal can impact energy,
mood, cognitive function, and cause bad headaches, among other things, I'm
sure. Caffeine use can also compromise sleep, raise blood pressure, and
increase anxiety. Caffeine intoxication is an acute state and has a range of
effects as well, but that's not really what you're asking about.

The wikipedia article actually has a good summary of some of these issues as
well as others.

You'll notice that the higher dosages given in that article as being risk
factors for things are within the range of 'several liters of iced tea.'

------
rcthompson
Something to consider regarding artificial sweeteners: your digestive tract
has the same sweet-taste receptors as the taste buds on your tongue. It uses
these to decide when to activate sugar metabolizing/storage pathways. Since
artificial sweeteners activate the receptors on your tongue, it is reasonable
to assume that they also activate the ones in your digestive tract, thus
misleading your body about how much sugar it has consumed and causing it to
respond inappropriately, probably causing something like a sugar crash as your
body releases insulin to combat an influx of sugar that never arrives.

~~~
pault
I can only speak for myself, but this is exactly what happens when I consume
artificial sweeteners. I get tired, cranky, and hungry about 30 minutes
afterwards. I switched from the 'milkshake' style protein drinks after
workouts to pure whey isolate and my late night food cravings stopped
completely. Too bad the whey isolate tastes, well, awful isn't strong enough
of a word.

------
rcthompson
I can't tell if this article is completely serious or partially tongue-in-
cheek. The bit that really stuck out at me:

"If I don’t use sugar ... then I simply get ... very low on energy. ... I’m
not sure what the link is here, all I know is that without that chemical in my
bloodstream for some reason I can’t get my head in first gear, let alone
second or third."

I found it hard to take that seriously, given that your body will put sugar in
your bloodstream regardless of what you eat, and without any sugar in your
bloodstream you would quickly die.

Of course, the overall point of the article still stands.

------
alan_cx
Dunno about any one else, but I suddenly went right off sugar, suddenly it
tasted foul.

I have no idea why at all. I used to have 2 teaspoons in coffee, like normal
coke, sprinkle it over cereal and fruit, and so on. One day I made my usual
coffee and it was just sickly. I chucked it down the sink and made a new one
with out sugar and its was fantastic. Same for everything else. Weird, but
there it is.

------
wldlyinaccurate
Try keeping a glass of water by you and drink that whenever you feel like
having a cup of tea. If you can swap even half of your tea intake for water
you'll start to feel much better within a few days since the caffeine and
sugar is actually dehydrating you.

I can't help but wonder if you had acquired a taste for beer as a teenager
whether you would have less of a sweet tooth now...

------
sbochins
Abstaining from sugar, tobacco, alcohol, or marijuana seems kind of silly to
me. I know that the culture on HN is to try to empower people to be supermen
and do extraordinary things. But, when I think of the dedication required to
abstain from all these things given the environment I live in, I feel anxiety.

I think anxiety and stress is something that is much more harmful to me than
smoking a blunt or drinking a glass of whiskey. I never understood why some
people take such a black and white (simple) perspective on this. I guess the
only reason I could see is if someone very close to them died from one of
these vices, but that is kind of an irrational reaction. I understand it, but
wouldn't advocate anyone reacting that way.

In short, I don't really see how soft drugs or unhealthy foods in moderate
quantity are really harmful in the grand scheme of things.

------
EGreg
Your brain consumes a lot of energy, and it feeds off the sugar. I am not sure
what studies have been done about intense concentration and conscious brain
activity involved in coding and so forth, but I can see why your brain has
developed a habit of relying on sugar.

Sugar is actually more addictive than many other drugs. Rats often preferred
it to cocaine and got addicted to it just like a drug.

<http://sarvahealthandwellness.com/?p=402>
<http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2008/12/12/22428/>

You might try varying the sugar to brown sugar or honey. Or eat fruits such as
grapes which are a source of glucose! Also, apples have been known to wake you
up in the morning better than coffee.

------
ChristianMarks
I have never taken narcotics. I have no interest in alcohol or tobacco. These
days, the thought of sex is revolting. Peer pressure means little to me: I
avoid people as much as possible, which helps. If I didn't, I might have to
listen to self-serving, fatuous nonsense about how I ought to have an open
mind about taking drugs or drinking, or at least take the trouble to examine
every controlled substance on a case-by-case basis, despite a lack of interest
and time. My justification for not doing so: I am rational, according to a
cost-benefit analysis I haven't done. (Which is to say, I don't need a
reason.)

That said, I've tried to reduce my sugar intake--no sugar in coffee, etc, but
this has been difficult.

~~~
nacker
Why do you think it is "self-serving" to suggest that you ought to have an
open mind? If you don't want to take the trouble to investigate subjects which
are of no interest to you, and for which you are just too darn busy, that is
just fine, you don't need a reason.

You might choose to live your life in a cardboard box, after all, as long as
you're happy there. Plenty of people will think you are missing out on life,
though. But since you avoid people, you wouldn't care, I guess. Have a good
one...

~~~
ChristianMarks
Why do you think I wrote that it is self-serving to suggest that I ought to
have an open mind _per se_ , when I wrote that it was self-serving to suggest
that I ought to have an open mind about taking drugs or drinking? When you
figure out what led you to distort my meaning, you should have the answer to
your question.

------
shanev
Some people much smarter than myself, like Dr. Robert Lustig at UCSF, believe
that sugar is the main cause for "diseases of affluence" like diabetes, heart
disease, and cancer. I've been on the Paleo diet, which eschews refined sugar,
for over four years. I've lost a lot of weight and feel better than I have
felt in many years. I know this is just an n=1 study and doesn't vilify sugar
in isolation, but I believe it played a huge role in making me healthier.
Sugar is just as bad as those other drugs and maybe more so. Eating it is like
shooting yourself, but with a very slow moving bullet. It'll catch up to you
at some point.

------
dllthomas
Rather than dropping the sugar from your tea, try finding some good coffee and
drinking it black. That way, you're not getting almost the same experience but
without the sugar. You're getting a radically different experience with most
of the same chemicals. Not that this is guaranteed to work, by a long shot,
but it seems worth a try.

Edited to add: The above assumes it's mostly psychosomatic, which seems quite
possible and worth testing but isn't anything like guaranteed. If there is a
nutritional component then eating more, smaller meals may help. I assume
you're eating breakfast in the first place?

------
mistercow
You can buy pure sucralose (the stuff in splenda) online for $10/ounce. It's
around 600 times as sweet as sugar, so that's equivalent to paying about
25¢/lb of sugar.

The upsides are that there are no documented negative health effects, it
tastes pretty much like sugar, and it has no calories.

The downsides are that it doesn't work like sugar chemically (you can't
caramelize it or use it to activate yeast), and that you have to dilute it (I
like to just make a very sweet sucralose+water solution to sweeten things
with, but you could easily cut it with some other powder like maltodextrin).

~~~
olliesaunders
And what happens after you eat this stuff for 50 years or so?

~~~
klausjensen
You might be dead. Then again, I expect to be dead in 50 years regardless...

~~~
olliesaunders
What about your children?

~~~
mistercow
That's pointless speculation, and you can play that game all day until you're
arguing that nothing is safe. How can we really be sure, after all, that trace
compounds from sea salt aren't causing slight DNA damage that will turn our
descendants 150 generations down the line into eight-legged mutants?

The fact is that there is no more reason to believe that sucralose will have
some as yet unobserved negative health effect than there is to believe that it
will have some as yet unobserved health benefit.

------
adrinavarro
Same could be said about salt — and salt really seems to be way worse. It is
everywhere (but you can avoid it if you cook your own food and take care of
what you put in it). It's quite an addiction too, as one can feel food to be
tasteless when not using it (because we end up using it in excess everywhere).

I wonder how abundance of almost everything we want (foods, variety,
condiments and abuse) will affect our (my) generation when we're old…

~~~
jrajav
Large amounts of sodium are bad for you, of course, but it doesn't fill you
with cheap energy and mild euphoria.

~~~
Zenst
Ahhh but if you offset that with cans of diet cola you they will reduce that
excess sodium. Salt+soda balanced diets work. Also don't forget a little fat,
milk before a meal will also actualy reduce the amount of food you absorb.
Whilst were on about eating more then reducing your vitimin D by avoiding
sunlight will effect the vitimin C's ability to take on and absorb foods. But
a adict can argue anything, even a salt, sugar caffine, never going out addict
:-).

Rule of thumb everything is bad for you, some take larger amounts than others
so in that everything in moderation works best.

Also worth noting that if you work in a very hot enviroment were you sweat
alot then as well as water salt tablets are required, signs of low sodium are
headaches, aches, and flu like sympton feeling and generaly feeling shit, too
much salt may be bad for you in general in the longterm but not enough can be
more detremental.

------
digitalWestie
Why is this on the front page?

~~~
duey
I actually like these health articles appearing on HN - I understand it's not
on-topic, but the majority of people here sit on computers all day so the
occasional tip is useful.

I guess you could argue being healthier makes you a better
entrepreneur/engineer/etc?

------
JohnsonB
Quitting sugar is hard without a diet replacing it that satiates your appetite
on a daily basis. I highly recommend _Why We Get Fat: And What to Do About
It_. Basically, an Atkins diet. That means eat as much as you want, but low
carbs, high protein, high fat (including sat. fats, but no tranfats, etc.),
high vegetable diet (and few fruits too, fruits are sugar.)

~~~
redcap
But fruit has fibre, which counteracts the sugar in them, so eating fruit is
ok.

But fruit juice is a different matter as the pulp has been removed.

~~~
crazygringo
Yeah, I'm kind of amazed by people who won't drink a Coke because it's
unhealthy, but have no problem downing a 20 oz orange juice.

The sugar in it may be natural, but it's still a mind-blowing amount of it.

~~~
ig1
If you're in the US Coke has corn syrup rather than sugar.

------
delinquentme
Sensationalist headlines! YAY!

And seriously if your head feels disconnected without tea... you could
probably use some exercise.

------
graeme
I found Stickk and chains.cc aren't bad for kicking habits. I'm currently
trying to quit sugar. If I don't, I give $200 to a disliked politician.

It's depending on me not lying, but making that committment has already made
it a lot easier.

17 days in so far, and hasn't been hard, after total failure before.

~~~
dreeves
Ooh, do you know about Beeminder? Cold turkey is probably fine for sugar but
if you want to gradually wean yourself, or if you want to build in some
flexibility like averaging at most 2 days of the week where you eat sugar
(without pre-specifying which days those would be) then Beeminder's more
quantitative approach should work better. Good luck either way!

Danny (of Beeminder)

------
ams6110
Try replacing the sugar in your tea with fat, i.e. cream. Will help you feel
more satiated.

~~~
duck
Or a lemon... that is what worked for me. Now I can no longer drink sweetened
tea.

------
Tichy
Try drinking tea without sugar? Better to wean off the caffeine, though.

------
hcarvalhoalves
Use honey or brown sugar. Quit drinking sodas and other crap you don't know
how much sugar was poured into. Problem solved.

Quitting carbohydrates altogether is a stupid idea. Don't do it.

~~~
eurleif
Brown sugar is no better for you than white sugar.
[http://www.seattlepi.com/lifestyle/health/article/Reality-
Ch...](http://www.seattlepi.com/lifestyle/health/article/Reality-Check-Is-
brown-sugar-healthier-than-1240510.php) Xylitol is my preferred sugar
substitute. It's lower in calories, and it has a much lower glycemic index. It
also helps prevent cavities.

~~~
hcarvalhoalves
Well, in Brazil you can buy real brown sugar (raw sugar). I don't known the
crap they sell elsewhere under this name. You can even buy it in blocks here
(google "rapadura").

The problem isn't in the calories, which is equivalent per gram with refined
sugar, but the fact refined lacks many nutrients. The article you mention is
full of crap and doesn't link to any studies, but I can tell you raw sugar has
~5mg per 100g of Iron alone. Refined sugar has absolutely zero. In a 2000kcal
diety, you're consuming 50g of sugar daily. You're getting along 1/4 of daily
Iron intake if raw sugar is used, for free. I'm not even going to mention
Magnesium, which 70% of the world's population is deficient on. I wouldn't say
the benefits are negligible.

About Xylitol... what's the point in using an artificial sweetener that lacks
any nutrients just because is has lower calories? Just cut caloric crap from
the diet. The only benefit is for diabetics.

------
endtime
Try stevia, which (as far as we know) is a totally non-toxic sweetener. It
doesn't work for everything, but I think it'd be just fine for tea.

------
001sky
Milk & Honey for your tea, folks =]

------
cmccabe
When I go to a restaurant, usually the only non-alcoholic things I can bear to
drink are unsweetened tea and water. I really don't know how people can bear
to drink the rest of the stuff. Putting sugar in drinks is nasty. Drinks with
artificial sweeteners taste even worse.

On the other hand, I hear the Chinese put salt in tea sometimes. That would be
even worse. So how can I complain.

------
nacker
"I vowed to simply abstain from any drug at all. No Beer, Wine, Spirits,
smokes, hash, coke or other dope for me. I wanted to be healthy and to live as
long as possible while keeping my body in as good a shape as I could."

Well Jacques, it is quite strange and disappointing to see that you have spent
your life following such a simplistic approach to human brain chemistry.

You seem to have accepted uncritically the message promulgated by your local
government about the effects of psychoactive chemicals, that is, that alcohol,
"smokes", hash, coke, or "other dope" is bad for your health, and will reduce
your lifespan.

In the first place, does it seem rational to you to group the effects of such
a wide range of different chemicals together? Tobacco and alcohol, for
example, have nothing in common chemically or pharmacologicaly. Their effects
on your health or longevity are completely independent of each other. What
they have in common is that they have a psychologically pleasant effect, like
the other varieties of "dope" you mention.

Perhaps you have bought into the Calvinistic worldview that what is
pleasurable must be ultimately harmful. Do you not indulge in such temptingly
wicked practices as dancing and umm, recreational sex either?

How about an item by item rational, scientific approach to each chemical? I'm
not going to attempt to be exhaustive here, as anyone can look up a hundred
resources, but, as a first approach, I think that your strategy of "complete
abstention" is misguided at best. Of course _anything_ can be overdone to the
point of being harmful, even internet usage, so all of my comments below apply
only to moderate, reasonable, sensible use.

Alcohol: Legal, moderate addictive potential, overuse increases violence and
recklessness. Numerous studies have shown than moderate usage is beneficial to
health. Overuse causes liver problems and Korsakoff's Syndrome. Social
lubricant enjoyed around the world.

Tobacco: Legal, highly addictive, carcinogenic. Mental stimulant.

Cannabis: Illegal. Barely to zero addictive potential, cancer
preventative/therapy. No known overdose. Stimulates creative ideas. Dissolves
obedience to authoritarian world-views.

Coke: Illegal. Highly addictive. Mental stimulant. Causes holes in internasal
septum and generally manic asshole behavior.

Psychedelics: Illegal. Highly NON-addictive. A large proportion of users say
they have caused the most significant experiences of their entire lives. No
known physical effects.

Personally, although I agree with you about sugar, I'm really more concerned
that you have accepted a bland, timid, dumbed-down, boring, government-
dictated life, than that you are taking any serious health risks.

I think you should take a few risks and get out a little, before you die. How
about a fat spliff, a hearty Merlot, and an Ayahuasca trip to the Amazon? You
never know, you might find that you've been living your life so far in black
and white.

~~~
jacquesm
I don't know you, and I'm pretty sure that you don't know me if you want to
suggest that I've been living my life in black and white. Oh, and Colombia is
indeed a beautiful country, I spent quite a bit of time there. I couldn't
comment on 'fat spliffs' or 'Merlot' but I think that it is quite possible to
enjoy life without those. I don't judge people that use this stuff, they
govern their bodies as they see fit, I govern mine as I see fit.

Some people need drugs to loosen up, I can assure you I'm plenty loose without
that.

> I'm really more concerned that you have accepted a bland, timid, dumbed-
> down, boring, government-dictated life

I appreciate your concern, but I promise you that that is not the case.

~~~
nacker
I don't know you, and I can't comment on Colombia, as I have never experienced
it. Of course, I can enjoy life without that possibly hazardous trip. I'm only
suggesting to you that there are non-governmentally approved,very worthwhile,
and perfectly healthy experiences that you are missing out on, as I have
chosen to pass on Colombia.

Each to his own. I enjoy your posts enormously. Maybe some day you will have a
change of heart and post about a life changing mushroom trip one day. Stay
loose!

[http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/10/03/drug-
in...](http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/10/03/drug-in-magic-
mushrooms-linked-to-long-lasting-personality-change-for-the-better/)

