
Ask HN: I'm way too shy, please help - ptn
I'm genuinely shy.<p>I stopped playing the guitar because I was too shy to play in public. I couldn't even play for ONE other person. I wrote some songs and publicized them...in forums, to strangers, not to people I knew.<p>I quit blogging because I just wouldn't tell people that I had a blog. I think I'm kind of scared to expose my work or something.<p>Needless to say, if I had an app or even started a business, it'd be hell for me to advertise it. I really can't picture me trying to convince someone to use my product; if a cousin asked me what it does, I'd start to stutter.<p>This applies to live interactions, not stuff like email, forums or HN. I'd have no problem in showing you guys my work and asking for comments and reviews.<p>What can I do? I think starting a blog again and telling people about it would be a good way to start, because it'd expose my work without me feeling intimidated by the presence of someone else. Would you agree?
======
samh
No I wouldn't.

Question one, are you more attached to your self image as someone who has a
real problem with shyness or are you more attached to the idea that you need
to solve this problem for real ?

Are you serious about overcoming it ?

If you are, what you need to do is to take steps, possibly very small steps,
every day, to push yourself past your comfort zone and be around other people
and overcome your shyness.

There is no knowledge that will help you, you cannot read, think, research or
write your way out of it, you can only practice and train your way out of it.

\- Every day this week I will smile at a stranger. Then smile at two a day,
then ten. \- Every day I will say 'hello' to people as I pass them and smile.
\- When I deal with a cashier or serving person I will say "Thanks, you having
a good day ?" I will practice small talk.

Action not thought will help you.

~~~
ptn
Wow, the smiling to strangers thing sounds like It'll help, thanks for that.

Here's another one I came up with: I live in a 12-store building where 44
families live. I will say hi and bye to everyone that shares the elevator with
me instead of looking at my shoes and pretend they are not there. And I will
smile while doing so.

~~~
soyelmango
Saying Hi and Bye is a great idea to get you started, because it will do two
things for you:

1) They might respond well to you, which can boost your confidence.

2) They look at you like you're a weirdo - this might seem bad, but it's
really a good thing because you will teach yourself that sometimes, there's
nothing wrong with you, and it's the other person that has an attitude
problem!

Good luck, and please report back to let us all know how you get on :)

------
armandososa
Perform.

I used to be very shy, so much that I wasn't even able to talk to girls (yes,
like the guy in TBBT) and I was always afraid of doing something seemingly
embarrassing even if it was not. I cannot even make anything ressembling a
dance because I was convinced that people will laugh at me.

One day I realized that this was ridiculous so I've started fighting my
shyness one baby step at a time. First, I've started wearing sunglasses which
I've used consider pretty lame. I was prepared to be mocked out by people but
I noticed that nobody actually care!

Then I got my first girlfriend which dumped me after one month. I was so angry
that I went to this party acting like a douche and I got 3 numbers from pretty
girls.

So I got the keyword is 'acting'. I didn't like acting as a douche though, so
I keep being pretty shy.

Well, like seven years ago I've started playing in a christian ska band. What
I did then was this: I will disguise myself as a rudeboy with sunglasses and a
hat and a checkboard tie so nobody could recognize me and then I will 'act' as
a ska rockstar. That worked pretty well, one year later I was dancing like
crazy at the stage and three years later I even got some personal fans :D

Man, being a rockstar even a completely-obscure one is awesome.

So my advice are this two things: 1) Do one little ridicule thing at a time
and 2) perform.

So when you want to play the guitar don't do it as yourself. Grab some 70's
rockstar wardrobe and act like one. For some strange reason rockstars don't
get laughed at. So act as one.

I've translated succesfully this approach to other areas of my life. Two years
ago I got invited to give a talk in the first big web conference in Mexico. I
was completely nervous but I knew that this was a turning point for my career
so I did it.

I watched a lot of talk videos on the web and when I finally got into the
stage I stop being myself and acted like a mix between Jason Fried, Gary V and
Troy Mclure (the guy from the simpsons). It's funny but acting like an
arrogant star boost your confidence.

I'm not saying that it works for everybody, just that it worked for me. I'm
still not Gary V but at least I'm not Raj Koothrappali.

~~~
ElliotH
Totally agree - you'll find that people who know you will expect you to act a
certain way. And if they've always known you to be the shy person who doesn't
speak out then thats how you'll behave (I mean they're friends with 'old' you
not 'new' you right?) What you've got to realise though is that people
actually don't mind when people act a bit unusually - especially if its 'baby
steps' like you suggest.

And the part about playing the rockstar role approaches the problem from a
different angle - go and see some people who don't know you as 'old shy
person' and instead see you based on their first impression.

------
tomhoward
Be careful of advice involving putting yourself in stressful situations, eg
public speaking classes, improv, talking to strangers, approaching women, etc.

Shyness is a generally a combination of the emotional (painful memories of
embarrassing/humiliating situations) and the physiological (neurological
stress & oversensitivity). These two aspects can influence each other, making
the situation steadily worse as you pass through life, and can push you to
breaking point if you can't work out how to escape the cycle.

If you have become hypersensitive to criticism or the feeling of
embarrassment, that's a real physiological condition, and deliberately
invoking this sensation through "fear conquering" exercises can make the
situation worse - ie, add to the pile of painful memories and exert further
physiological strain on your body.

There's a bunch of ways you can make your nervous system more robust, through
nutrition (food+supplements), physical health & fitness, and crucially,
"letting go" of painful memories (it seems wacky, but many people find
"tapping" or EFT to be really effective).

Over time, this can enable you to be more relaxed and confident.

If you're going to do anything to challenge yourself, make sure you're taking
small incremental steps. It's important to get yourself on a success
trajectory, where each day or each week you're getting a little better than
the last, and never suffering a major fall or setback. Minor setbacks are OK,
as long as they're not too painful they'll become a way of figuring out when
you're going right or wrong.

I'm aware some of this stuff may sound absurd, but it's based on my own
experience, which includes learning that common "wisdom" about this stuff,
including conventional advice from mental health "professionals", is
ineffective at best and terribly damaging at worst.

The good news is you really can overcome the difficulty you find yourself in,
and life can be far more enjoyable than you ever imagined possible.

If you want any more advice, email me: tom.howard/gmail.

------
jacquesm
hey ptn,

What are you afraid of that makes you so shy ?

People rejecting you or ridiculing you ?

Is there something in your past that made you decide to 'play it safe' ?

The instrument thing I can completely relate to, I used to play the saxophone
(I managed to blow a small hole in one lung so not any more), and I really
didn't dare to play it in front of others, I felt completely naked doing that.

And then one day a guy I knew in Amsterdam changed that, he played as well and
said, come, the weather is good, let's go outside and play. He was _way_
better than I was and there was no way I was going to be caught dead playing
out in the street (Amsterdam, so you're pretty much assured an audience).

But he kept on needling me until I gave in, one song only. So we went out and
played that one song. One song became 10 and before long I really enjoyed it,
even if I never played outside again I did lose my shyness about that.

With people in conversation it is a different thing, writing is a lot easier
than speaking because when you write you can re-read your words before you
click that 'submit' or 'reply' button and that gives you some time to get your
thoughts in proper order.

People that are good at 'thinking on their feet' usually have less of a
problem with interacting with others than those that need to think for a bit.

I really suggest you read darkxanthos' blog posts about all this, he has a way
with words that I can't hope to match and his experiences are chronicled in a
way that you actually get something from it that you can use.

There is this song called 'sunscreen', one line in it stands out for me: Do
something that scares you every day.

best of luck!

Jacques

~~~
ptn
People don't ridicule me _now_ , but they used to, up until I was 16 or so.
That's probably it.

~~~
jacquesm
Ok. So, here is my take on that:

Kids are cruel, but they grow up to become adults and those adults _can_ be
just as cruel, only they're more clever about it. It never goes away,
unfortunately. Pettiness seems to be somehow part and parcel of groups of
people.

You have to have a fairly tough skin to get around, and one of the things that
being shy is a real problem with is that it opens you up to people that 'use'
you simply by being normal to you, they might gain an edge that way.

I've been on the receiving side of that twice, always looking for that pat on
the head or if someone is simply nice to me I'll nearly kill myself to please
them. It's a weak point in my character.

The cruelty you can learn to deal with, the other part I'm not so sure. Every
time something like that happens it dents my self confidence for years.

Still, like that famous ancient story, this too shall pass, and in the end
whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger, sometimes much stronger.

I'm going to make a really weird suggestion: forget about a startup or
something like that for now, go and do some volunteer work for a while.

It's two birds with one stone, it will have a real and measurably positive
impact on peoples lives which will help you to build confidence and it will
cure your shyness like nothing else can because it reverses the usual role
patterns that you fall in to.

A friend of mine from Canada did that in order to find a way to deal with the
aftermath of a car accident she was in, it worked very well for her, I figure
it should help you deal with your shyness for much the same reasons.

There are always people below you on the ladder, simply being confronted with
a lot of real world hardship will help to give you the tools with which to
deal with your own, and will put you in a position of having to deal with
people on a daily basis.

~~~
ptn
I think you nailed it with the volunteering work. That sure sounds like it
would help, it would really get my out of my comfort zone.

------
fretlessjazz
If you're young, get a job at a help desk or tech customer support. It will
work wonders, trust me.

~~~
cracki
actually, it'll only make you a cynic and a misanthropist.

~~~
jamesbritt
That's a choice you make.

------
sev
I'll tell you a little about myself, hopefully my history regarding shyness
can help you.

I used to be shy, at school, around friends, even at home (outside of my
parents and siblings). Until I was chosen to be one of the lead characters at
a school play, which I was pretty much forced to be a part of. I had a stomach
ache to the point that I couldn't stand up straight, I was so scared. Somehow
though, I was able to recite the lines properly. Thereafter I was complimented
so much by so many different people, even people I didn't know (such as other
actor's parents), that I was able to gain self confidence and thought that I
was truly a great actor who can maybe become one in the future. This play was
a turning point in my life, because to this day, I'm not shy, and I know I'm
not a very good actor. The worst that could have happened at this play was
that I wouldn't be complimented (no way anyone would insult my skills, as it's
not expected of a student to be good, let alone amazing). In hindsight, it was
worth the shot for a possible less shy future.

As a teenager I had quite a bit of acne, and that caused low self-confidence
in me for a while. How I got over it was simple, yet accidental (or
subconscious, as there is no way I would have thought of doing this on purpose
at that time): overt confidence display. Basically, act extremely self
confident, and do things that even the bullies in class wouldn't dare to do.
This causes people to look at you in a more respectful way (at least in
school, but with some modifications can be applied elsewhere), one in which
they stop seeing your face, but what you've done, your history, your "self-
confidence", etc. It's kind of like being a fat ugly rock star or famous
actor/celebrity/CEO. Overt self-confidence display can lead to really bad
behavior though, which I was able to control, but try to keep that in mind.

Currently, I've removed the "overt" part from "overt confidence display."
However, it was necessary at first, to make as strong of a first impression as
possible.

In theater, they teach actors to consider the audience members as donkeys or
some other animal sitting down and watching them, to create a less
traumatizing experience. Try to do something similar when you play the guitar,
or talk to someone. Who are they to cause you to fumble or stutter or cause
anxiety? No matter who they really are, they're no one to cause any of those
symptoms.

Sorry about the long essay.

~~~
cmos
Being forced into doing drama also changed my entire life. I cannot recommend
it enough. I was relatively talentless and put in the back of the chorus (sang
happy birthday during tryouts for a summer musical), but that only gave me
more time to socialize with drama people, who are completely different from my
close, safe group of friends at the time.

The drama crowd taught me how to relax, how to enjoy life, and how to speak my
mind amongst chaos.

It was my mother who forced me to try out (literally threatened me). I was so
angry at her for making me do it and so very thankful every day after for
having such a life changing experience.

------
puppetsock
Find a good therapist (psychologist) to talk to about this. Working through
shyness will be a long process, and having a smart caring person to coach you
through it will be a big help. Therapists are people who are genuinely
interested in helping people in this way, and they have been developing and
honing the relevant set of skills. I'd say it's important to find someone who
works well for you and your personality, so maybe it would help to talk to a
few to see who you have the best rapport/connection with.

~~~
briancarper
I second this. If your shyness is bad enough that it seriously, negatively
affects your life, consider talking to a psychologist. Speaking from personal
experience, it can help. There's no shame in it. A psychologist offers a non-
judgmental, safe atmosphere to talk to someone well-versed in the kinds of
problems you're facing. Social anxiety is a much more common problem than most
people would guess, and there are ways of thinking and habits you can form
that can help you overcome it.

Some people can overcome these things without help, of course, and more power
to them. Just another option to consider.

------
nonrecursive
Hi ptn, I would recommend two books for you: The Places that Scare You, by
Pema Chodron, and How to Win Friends and Influence People, by Dale Carnegie.
If you send me your details I can send the books your way (my email is in my
profile). Alternatively, you could add those books to an amazon.com wish list
and I could get them for you that way. I wish I could write more about why I'd
recommend those books, but I have to get to work :)

Good luck, buddy.

------
maxklein
Everything becomes easier the more you do it. If you're shy, there is an easy
way to get over it: break it into component parts (talking to people, going
new places etc). The break each part into steps that you can take. For
example, talking to people an easy way to start is to talk to fruit sellers
about their fruit, then asking for advice on clothes and so on. Now, everyday
make it a mission to go and conquer one level of it til you are comfortable
with that. Then move to the next level.

The way I am advocating is slow working, but it's easy to do and it changes
the very fundamentals of who you are.

Also travel to other cities alone and just walk around and discover the city.
Being in a new environment will open you up to being more accepting of things
you don't know or understand.

------
patio11
I used to be shy and have a bit of a speech impediment. To get over it, I
joined the forensics club (competitive public speaking). It is amazing how
much that has helped me over the years. ("Presenting my new idea to the CEO?
Pfft, just another speech. Need a joke for the intro... always start with a
joke for the intro...")

If you're still in school, I recommend that or debate. If you're not, I hear
Toastmasters is pretty decent.

------
weaksauce
Have you tried a job in retail? I did computer sales for a while and I know it
sucks but it did help me by forcing human interaction in mass numbers. The
company was bad, but it was good on a few fronts: coworkers were generally
interesting to talk to, I got a part time job on the side from a customer that
gave me a lot of experience, I started a company with a few coworkers doing
computer networking which afforded me some interesting experiences. Overall it
was a net win.

This _will_ get you practice in human interaction which is invaluable.

------
iamelgringo
Great suggestions here. I'd also suggest improv classes or acting classes.
Most large cities have improv classes of some form, and your local community
college is bound to have some acting classes. They are a great way to get in
front of people in a controlled setting, and try to do weird things. After
pretending to be an elephant in front of an acting class every week for 3
months, it's amazing how much easier it is to talk with a stranger about your
product.

~~~
ptn
I was actually considering the same thing. This does seem like a big step, so
it's like step 2 or 3 of the plan.

------
krmmalik
I used to be painfully shy too, but i started to get much better when i
realised that were many other people who had the same problem.

Some things i have learned that sometimes it can come down to self-esteem, so
if you solve that problem you've got most of it covered. I dont know if you
are male or female, but there is video series on youtube by David DeAngelo
(its a little crude) caled "On being a man", its worth watching. Just as a
"gaining insight" exercise. I wouldnt take the whole thing literally, but it
helps.

Other than that, i agree with the other commenter that the more you do
something the better you get it. Start with the slightly easier things first
and then start pushing yourself further.

Also, get a pen and paper and for each thing that painfully frightens you list
down a few reasons as to why it frightens you, i.e. worst case scenario, and
then list why the worst case scenario itself frightens you and keep
extrapolating that back as much as you can. that REALLY helps (hope it makes
sense, email or skype me if you want to know more). (khuram@xs-pro.co.uk)
skype: krmmalik

and lastly there's a book called "Feel the fear and do it anyway" by Susan
Jeffers. Its worth reading.

(sorry for the information overload, just take one thing at a time)

------
ptn
A very big "thank you" to everyone that posted a reply. There are true gold
mines here, and every bit helps.

------
cheald
Find your local Toastmasters chapter. The pitch is to learn how to become a
better public speaker and leader; everyone I've ever known that's been a part
of it has raved about how it rounded off their shy edges and made them
massively more confident. They'll make you uncomfortable as hell, but just
remember that everyone else is there for the same reason to some degree.

------
ahi
Practice practice practice. Like anything else you get better by trying (and
occasionally failing). You have to put yourself out there to overcome shyness,
leaving your comfort zone. There is no switch to flick that makes it go away.
I'm not much for formal education, but one thing it has given me is required
presentations. With a few very painful public speaking experiences under my
belt I am far less scared of it because I know I am getting better. At some
point you just have to say "fuck it" and do it. No pain no gain.

Maybe this is a reach, but I'll use the Woz as an example. When he was making
the Apple I doubt very much he was capable of managing a coherent
conversation. He was the quintessential socially inept nerd. 30 years later
he's still no Jobs, but he can give a decent interview. I suppose it helps
having "fuck you" money, but really he's just had a couple decades of
practice.

------
bricestacey
It helps to do something... a little more mundane. No one goes around casually
talking about their complicated lives (of which both guitars and blogs fall).

For example, I was cleaning up my backyard today (something mundane) and saw
that some flowers had sprouted. I took a picture and posted it on Facebook
exclaiming that Spring was here (again, something mundane) and when I go into
work tomorrow I'm going to boast about the newfound glory of Spring to every
single person I see.

You might take up a simple hobby like running (mundane), but it's something
you can easily talk about. "I went for a run today. It was so nice out."
Simple. If they're interested, you can fill in some more details about how you
now have shin splints or that you stepped in a puddle. If they're not
interested, no big deal. You had some top-notch small talk.

------
rokhayakebe
ptn, you may be afraid of rejection.

Maybe you could start by telling yourself that whenever you are too worried
about someone's opinion, you are in fact saying "S/He is more important than
me".

I am a very shy person. I fear others' opinion. So I turned my fear into a
game. For example If I go out, I only talk to girls that intimidate me. During
meetings I talk the least, but I take notes, write my talking points before
speaking.

In other cases I literally imagine myself standing on the side watching me
talk to people. I think this is not me, I am over there, watching my clone do
this.

The most extreme I went was having a goal to say hello and smile at anyone I
saw in a day (at the store, bank, work, street, etc...). Then I went further
and chatted with at least 1 stranger everyday.

Take it as a game. It will be fun and soon you will start not to care.

~~~
ptn
Fear of rejection is definitely a component here. Fear of failure is another
one.

~~~
peterwwillis
well, they say the best way to conquer your fears is to face them. my
suggestion: get embarrassed. fail.

it's a funny thing, fear. fears always make things seem worse than they are. i
think you should do something that would normally embarrass you, and when you
are done review what happened as a result. then do it again. each time you get
in that situation you come to grips with the totality of your fear, and each
time you walk away from it you become that much better at dealing with it.

i think the thing to keep in mind is that yes, you will fail. yes you will get
embarrassed. but after going through it you will learn how to deal with it.
i'll bet you after the 50th time playing guitar in public or singing all your
fears would be gone. maybe you can extend that to other parts of your life
too?

i also agree with looking at people in the eyes, smiling and saying hello
whenever you pass. it shows confidence and it trains you to cope with people's
rejection should they not smile back.

------
ax0n
Get out and find people a bit like yourself. My advice: Find a hackerspace
where you can collaborate with people in person. You can start by helping
them, or giving them input without exposing your work all at once. You'll be
around people who understand your type, and some of them will likely be shy as
well. Many of the meetings at these places are not overwhelmingly crowded, but
there are enough people there that you can lurk if you want to. As you get
more comfortable with the people, you'll find it easier to share. Eventually,
you might even give a presentation with another member, to the group. Or maybe
you'll give a presentation yourself. You'll be able to practice your
interpersonal skills on people who won't judge you very harshly.

~~~
ptn
You just wrote a description of my job. I only got there 6 weeks ago, so I
haven't had the chance to do all that yet, but I will take the first chance I
get.

------
rajat
Either you are too shy, and the usual prescription of go out there and
overcome it isn't going to work. I was painfully shy when I was younger, and
it took determined and sustained effort to overcome it. Even today, after
years of this, it often takes a moment of deliberate effort for me to talk to
a stranger. At parties, I am often one of the people holding up the wall.

It's clear, however, that that will not work for a small number of people, and
if you are one of them, then you must consider counselling/therapy. For a
really small number, drugs are called for. If you find that a determined
effort to be outgoing is not possible/helpful, then I seriously encourage you
to seek out the right type of counsellor.

------
jacoblyles
I don't have a problem as severe as yours, but I was able to reduce my shyness
by forcing myself to go through with situations that I was afraid of. It was
sort of like jumping into a cold pool. Once you're in the water it is not as
unpleasant as your fear told you it would be. And once you learn that, it gets
easier to jump in the pool the next time.

It's also something you can't learn by thinking about, or by reading advice.
You have to learn by doing.

But honestly, I'm not that shy of a person. I'm only shy in certain
situations. So I'm not sure how much it will help you.

------
pasbesoin
Exercise. Heavily.

The best time of my life was the fall after a summer of cycling every day. I
gained several (real) new friends. I started participating in intra-mural
sports, at which I was actually good. (Some quite negative "jock attitudes"
had kept me away from organized sports in primary and secondary school.) I
reconsidered my education and began to see past all the "don't do that" advice
towards a course of pursuing what actually interested me.

There's a lot more to this, especially as researchers look at and measure
various biological changes and effects, than just a one liner. But to
summarize: When you feel better, you feel better about yourself, and, feeling
better about yourself, you approach others on a more equal footing.

I was cycling 2 - 3 hours a day. It may not require this much activity, but I
am talking about more than a 15 or 30 minute workout. (Well, maybe a heavy 30
minute routine would suffice. Others might have more to contribute in the way
of details.)

P.S. I may be mistaken, but I seem to recall some good threads on this (both
shyness and exercise, and the union of the two topics) back in the "early
days" of HN. Unfortunately, I don't have references at hand, but a look
through

<http://searchyc.com/>

<http://www.gabrielweinberg.com/startupswiki/Ask_YC_Archive>

might turn some up.

------
psyklic
Here is a really great blog by someone who made it into a game, with
challenges for himself and simple stages. Maybe you can find some inspiration
through his posts:

<http://socialskydivingwithjustin.posterous.com/>

Also, a trick that I use to practice new ideas is to go into places where I
don't know a single person. Then, I can try all kinds of crazy things, knowing
that I'll never see any of the people again :)

~~~
ptn
> Also, a trick that I use to practice new ideas is to go into places where I
> don't know a single person. Then, I can try all kinds of crazy things,
> knowing that I'll never see any of the people again :)

That's why I want to move to the valley to do my startup. I couldn't do it
here.

------
CaptainZapp
It was mentioned already and I'd like to re-emphasize :

Talk to a good psychologist or psychiatrist and consider medication for a
limited time at least.

I was the same. No problems with friends, colleagues or on the internet, but
walking into a bar or into a party would frighten the holy crap out of me.

Cognitive therapy in combination with Effexor (Efexor herearound) helped me a
hell of a lot. It's basically an antidepressant, which is also indicated for
Social Anxiety Disorder in a relatively low dosis and in the extended release
version. There may be others, but this worked pretty good for me.

A major disclaimer :

Although I seem to recognize a lot of the symptoms that I had (sometimes have,
but this is much rarer now) I am not a physician or even a psychologist.
Anecdotal experience may be valid in my case, but each person is different and
what works for one, may be a side effect ladden horror for others. Before you
even consider altering your brain chemistry (which I don't think is inherently
wrong and meds are pretty subtle nowadays) you must discuss this with a
professional, period.

In any case: I _guarantee_ that you can do something about it. it may need
work and a professional to get there, but you can do it.

Good luck on your journey

------
jasonneal
I used to be pretty shy myself. I would say to some degree I still am, but
when necessary I am able to overcome that.

I can say a few things that helped me a long the way. First off though, on the
computer you feel "shielded" from reality. Even if you showed me your blog,
and I told you it was horrible, I still have no clue who you are, so you feel
a little more safe. So having the blog and showing it to people that do
actually know you might help a bit, but I think this all starts in "public."

I took a speech class in college. I was absolutely terrified that I was going
to have to take this class, because all throughout high school I had to do
speeches for certain classes and it was always a headache. However, college
was far more different. They allowed me to give speeches on topics that I was
already interested in. Being interested in the topic made things a lot easier.
I would say that speech class didn't help immediately, but in the long run it
was a big help.

I also had a bunch of customer service style jobs early in life that required
me to interact with the public...I think these early face-to-face jobs helped
a lot.

Good luck to you!

------
Mz
I am wondering if you have a keen sense of smell. Since it is in person but
not online, I would guess there is something physiological involved.
Anecdotally, my son is very strongly impacted by the feelings and reactions of
people around him. He also has a keen sense of smell. I suspect the two things
are related since pheromones are also picked up by the nose (olfactory).

I was bedridden at one time and largely housebound for a long time. During
that time, I spent a lot of time online. Getting out into the world again and
around people was a headtrip. I have found that it is much easier to drop
someone a polite note, send them an email, etc in order to talk about
difficult subjects because it removes that physiological component. If they
have a strong negative initial reaction, I am not exposed to it. They can take
time to calm down and compose themselves before replying, etc. If handled
properly, it can do a lot to defuse potentially highly charged situations.

Yes, start a blog again and do more stuff online. You might consider planning
a web-based business or project.

------
jvictor118
I heard somewhere that people's #1 fear is public speaking (#2 being death).
So I certainly don't think your alone.

Simply put, I'd like to emphasize that the problem is entirely within you.
This can all change without the action (or awareness) of _any_ other people.
You simply have to ask yourself -- why is it that I allow other people's
opinion of me to influence what I think about myself? Why is my self-image
tied up in the opinion of others?

I used to struggle with this (in middle school) until I realized that other
people's behavior is governed entirely by their own problems, their own
insecurities and concerns -- so their reaction to you has _very_ little to do
with you, and a whole LOT to do with them. So not only is it not healthy, it
is ILLOGICAL to allow others' opinions to sway you at all!

Meditate on this when these feelings start to paralyze you. Remember that
plenty of great work was ridiculed and derided when it was first accepted --
think about Galileo! No matter how bad the publicly responds to whatever you
show it, it will likely not be as bad as it was for Galileo. :)

------
jpatte
The mind works with automatisms and reflexes. They condition the way you
interpret any situation, and the emotion you feel because of this
interpretation. The key is to become aware of these mechanisms: don't let them
control you.

In your daily-life, inevitably you will interact with other people. At this
moment, there might be a little voice in your head (litteraly) saying "Don't
do this. It's dangerous. Remember that time..." + flash images of painful past
situations. It's your instinct, acting to protect you. The problem is the
association you made between people interaction and pain (probably because of
a difficult childhood). You need to fix this.

Actually there might be several broken mechanisms acting in different
situations.: don't try to fix them all at the same time. Focus on each one
independently, then "force" it as much as possible to replace the bad behavior
by the behavior you want. It will be hard at the beginning, then easier.

A psychologist might help you identify these broken mechanisms in your daily
life. But the key is to gain awareness of them, acting in your head. Some of
them could be:

\- taboo: being shy or feeling uncomfortable is not a taboo. Talk about it.
Everyone enjoy talking about what they are concerned about. This is your life,
so talk about it. People will actually appreciate knowing you better, and you
might be amazed to see how many people feel the same.

\- judgment: people are not judging you all the time. Most of the time, they
don't care about you. Don't think anything you do will be evaluated, judged,
and blamed.

\- perfection: nobody is perfect. Why would you? People learn from failures.
If they don't fail, they don't evolve. Don't feel shameful to ask for help.
It's very positive.

\- right: you have the right to exist. You have to right to make suggestions.
You have the right to decline others' suggestions.

It's a long road, but it's worth it. Hang on!

------
Tichy
"I wrote some songs and publicized them...in forums, to strangers, not to
people I knew."

This just made me think, perhaps you should simply hang out on ChatRoulette
for a while :-) (Haven't tried it myself).

But seriously, I think just practice. I recently read one of the "The Game"
books out of curiosity (about the pickup artists, I read "The Mystery
Method"). Not sure if I like it, but one thing stood out: in their seminars,
they make people go into night clubs and chat up at least 10 women per night
(or was it even more, don't remember for sure). in other words, they simply
practice a lot.

I know this is not (just) about talking to women, but I think in general
anxiety really can be overcome with practice. Take smaller steps, though -
playing your music in front of an audience is comparatively huge. One thing I
did is for a while ask a question at almost every conference/public talk I
went to. I felt a difference very quickly.

------
Tycho
I divide activities into two categories: those I'm supposed to be good at, and
those I'm not. For instance, I'm fairly articulate and knowledgeable about
certain subjects, so I should be able to get up and explain/present them to
other people. Whereas, I'm a poor guitar player, lack 'rock star looks' and
have got a weak singing voice, so performing music is probably not my forte. I
find I continually grow in confidence with the former activity, and just don't
attempt the latter activity (or have need to attempt it).

Of course there will be some things I need to do but am still bad at. Still
working on that one! (acquiring more skills would always help though. don't
think of 'social skills,' think of things like 'sense of humour' that you can
improve).

------
ankeshk
Countdown to failure. Make it into a game.

Rookie salesmen - the best instruction they receive is not: go and get 10
sales. The best instruction they receive is: go and get 30 Nos.

The goal of 30 Nos means they won't give up before that even if they face a
lot of shit.

A lot of pickup artists do this too. They instruct people to go and approach
as many girls as they can with a made up opening line before they are rebuked
a 100 times.

Counting down to failure works better in making sure you don't give up before
you can raise your confidence level.

Action Summary:

Figure out what you consider your failure point.

Come up with a number. You need to reach your failure point that many times.

Eg: It could be 10 people asking you to stop playing your guitar within 2
minutes of you starting to play.

------
durbin
I would have considered myself shy in the past and one of the rationalizations
that helped me get over being shy is that everyone projects how they would
react and feel on other people.

Do you judge others work or blogs harshly? Are you judgmental of others
opening themselves up and putting their work and thoughts out in public? I'd
say the first step is making sure that you are not judgmental of others
putting themselves out there and in turn you'll realize the best people (and
the only ones you should care about imho) are the ones that aren't judgmental
and embrace people sharing what they are thinking and realize its tough to
have brilliant ideas all the time.

------
stevoski
Medication worked wonders for me.

I had anxiety problems that were crippling my life. Two years ago I was
prescribed Paroxetin. The changes it has done me for are great. I sleep much
better. I'm not so irritable. I don't worry so much about failure and what
other people think. I am far more open about my life, even with strangers, as
readers of my blog know.

A pleasant side-effect is that I can coolly walk into a crowded room or bar. I
used to be close to panic in this situation. Last Saturday night I started a
random conversation with two girls in a local bar and talked to them for a
couple of hours. And if they had dissed me - I wouldn't have cared.

The past was not like this for me.

------
kingkawn
I used to be awkward, then I realized that by talking to people when I feel
that way I can transfer my awkwardness to them, and split between the two of
us its not so bad. The shyness comes from trying to handle it all on your own.

------
CraigBuchek
I used to be a lot like that, and I worked on changing it. So that's my number
1 piece of advice -- work on changing what you want to change. Work on the big
things as well as the little things.

I used to put my head down when passing people, to avoid eye contact. Silly as
it sounds, I was able to help with that by humming the Argent song "Hold Your
Head Up" in my head when passing people.

Another thing I did was to put myself in situations where I HAD to interact
with other people. Sometimes this worked, and sometimes it didn't. I found
that bars didn't work -- I'd mostly just stand there by myself. Then I'd go
home and feel like a failure. (Note that I felt like a failure for NOT putting
myself out there and talking to people. To me, that's more regrettable than
anything stupid I might have done.)

Joining some clubs where I had an interest helped a lot. At first I just took
it in. Then I started offering input during discussions. Eventually, I got to
the point where I gave presentations in front of the group, and even larger
groups. Now I also run the group (a local LUG). I wrote myself some tips on
giving presentations, as well as for others, to share what I learned. My best
tip to stop being nervous in this situation is: "Remember that the audience
members are just like you, and are interested in what you have to say."

Leverage what you're good at to improve the things that you're not good at.
For example, as I said, I was terrible at bars. But I'm good at writing -- and
conversation once I know people. So I found that online dating worked really
well for me. I got to meet people, but only after I got them interested in me
from our written exchanges. At this point, I'd be more comfortable talking to
them in person.

Another thing you can do is latch onto a friend that's more outgoing. Make
sure it's someone who won't push you out of your comfort zone too far too
fast. But have them take you places where you can meet people. They can
introduce you and get the conversation started.

Eventually, you'll get to a tipping point where you realize that "failing"
isn't so bad, and that "failures" are just learning experiences. Then you'll
be able to say "what the heck" and not care so much about what other people
think.

Good luck!

------
noodle
with respect to a blog, create a fresh anonymous online identity, and go from
there. no need to show it to people you know. let it continue to be closed off
so that you can comfortably show off your work. include it on resumes only if
it is applicable, where you can feel more comfort in the fact that you're
putting a whole lot of yourself out on the line and that adding the blog is
just a drop in the bucket.

with respect to app/business, find a partner who is willing to be the face of
the company, and operate behind them. no one really has to know that you're
supplying the code.

------
iworkforthem
@ptn ... quote 'oprah an't that beautiful either' and she got her own show.
this an't going to work if you r not going to get out of your comfort zone.

upside, posting a Ask HN is a good stand. Try make a video next.

------
almost
Not directly related to shyness but I think this video might possibly help:

[http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/alain_de_botton_a_kinder_g...](http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/alain_de_botton_a_kinder_gentler_philosophy_of_success.html)

I think it's important to remember that most people are insecure in some way,
it's just that different people show it differently. So maybe the loud
extroverted guy is really scared to.

Good luck with stuff, work on it and you will improve. This is not something
you're stuck with, it's just a hard work to sort it out.

------
jarmop
I used to be very shy. Not any more. I still don't like crowds, and I prefer
to be with one or two people - but I can make a speech for five or five
hundred persons, who usually tell afterwards that it was the best part of
their day - or the whole week. What helped:

I went to a course in our university, "confidence as presenter" (bad
translation of the name, sorry). The teacher was excellent, and I guess that
is what really is what counts.

So, my advice would be: go to some course about communications or such, but
make sure that the teacher is excellent.

------
warp
I used to by shy, then I fell in love.

In past, I would fear what others would think of me, which made me very shy.
When I fell in love I only cared about what my love interest would think.
Obviously I was even more shy around her, so that relationship didn't work
out. But in the meantime I didn't care anymore what others would think, this
got me into a positive feedback loop and fixed my shyness enough to no longer
be a problem.

Not something you can easily trigger, but you need to find some way to get
into that positive feedback loop.

------
Debugreality
There is some good comments here about practicing, the trick is to find what
works for you.

Make a list of small things you think you can try. Try them. If one doesn't
work for you that's ok, write down what you learn from it not working. Maybe
you can try it a bit differently next time, or try something else.

Just keep at it, it usually takes a few missteps to learn new things so don't
worry about it. That's part of learning.

Good luck!

~~~
Debugreality
Oh another good trick regarding shyness is to focus on your motive. Why be
fearful if you are acting with the other persons interests at heart. Try doing
things for others, like smile to make them happier.

A lot of people are in the same boat as you, why should you all be miserable
:)

------
switch
99% of people are worrying about what other people think of them. People try
to hide it in different ways - saying too little, saying too much, hiding from
the world, overexposing themselves.

just realize that most people are so busy caring about what other people think
of them they don't really care much about how you come across.

why do you care what other people think? what's your answer to that question.

------
petervandijck
It'll get better.

1\. Yes, practice little things.

2\. Yes, you'll die, so don't focus only on the shyness.

3\. Don't worry, it'll get better with age (age brings practice and
confidence), and although you'll likely always have some level of shyness, it
will get to the level where your shyness is charming, and just an aspect of
your personality. Nothing wrong with that.

------
j053003
Don't take life too seriously--you're not going to make it out alive anyway.

Edit: or what Anonjon said

------
missizii
You might find the book "The Highly Sensitive Person: How to Thrive When the
World Overwhelms You" by Elaine Aron helpful. Shyness isn't the same as being
highly sensitive, but sensitive people are often considered shy.

------
oscarduignan
Haven't read the article, I just like the picture...

[http://plpatterns.com/post/307982918/its-hard-to-change-a-
li...](http://plpatterns.com/post/307982918/its-hard-to-change-a-little-its-
much-easier-to)

------
davidw
I enjoyed learning salsa dancing a lot, and it helped my confidence, and
ability to just approach people (well, girls, specifically). Plus, it's
actually fun. My wife and I still go occasionally, these days:-)

------
rajat
Either you are too shy, and the usual prescription of go out there and
overcome it isn't going to work. I was painfully shy when I was younger, and
it took determined and sustained effort to overcome it. Even today, after
years of this, it often takes a moment of deliberate effort for me to talk to
a stranger. At parties, I am often one of the people holding up the wall.

It's clear, however, that that will not work for a small number of people, and
if you are one of them, then you must consider counselling/therapy. For a
really small number, drugs are called for. If you find that a determined
effort to be outgoing is not possible/helpful, then I seriously encourage you
to seek out the right type of counsellor.

------
martin_valiente
Try acting or locution classes. Actors do silly exercises to take away the
scenic fear. If you have been a dog or a tree in front of several people, then
being human seem a lot easier.

------
anonjon
Just keep in mind that you are going to die eventually, and that life is
short, so it will be relatively soon.

There's so few ways that embarrassment will kill you but there's many ways
that being really really alone like that will kill you.

Worst thing happens is you get laughed at, best thing happens is something
really good. So focus on the really good. laughed at isn't anything.

~~~
ptn
That one was pretty drastic, but very true. Thanks for the advice.

~~~
whalesalad
Sounds like you just need to man up and grow a pair. Honestly. If you think
what he said was "harsh", then you're in for an interesting world. At some
point in my life... I think it was the start of my senior high school year, I
just became comfortable and cool with myself. I started not caring about what
others thought, and just did what made me happy. I made new friends, ditched
old ones, and started my career. Confidence in yourself is the best thing you
can have. As soon as I graduated high school I moved to Hawaii to work for a
new startup, and haven't looked back. Live life from the perspective of "will
I regret _not_ doing this?" rather than "will I regret doing this?".

Also, at the chance of coming off as cheesy... think about the legacy that you
want to leave for yourself. What are people going to say at your funeral? What
will your tombstone read? What can you surround yourself with so that every
day that you wake up in the morning, you're excited to get at it and live it?
I think that's where true happiness comes from, and that's what truly matters
in life :) </end-hallmark-card>

~~~
ptn
I didn't think it was harsh, but "A: I'm shy. B: You are gonna die! Don't be."
really caught me off guard.

I can totally see your point and agree completely. My legacy is something I
think about constantly.

When I die, I want to say "FUCK YEAH! Let's do that again!", not "Yeah I felt
safe".

~~~
fleitz
Put yourself in embarrassing situations. Go to a karoake night and "sing"
spoken word style, hopefully off key, the great part is this isn't hard for
most people. Take the guitar to some kind of open mic night and absolutely
bomb, make sure it's tuned wrong before even going on stage.

Go with the intention of being bad.

After that you'll get over it.

------
sscheper
Don't want this to come off rude, but here's my tip: Get outside.

~~~
ptn
I do go outside. Parties, bars, the casual get-together. No problem meeting
new people. Wanna go grab a beer? :-)

~~~
angusgr
Is it possible that the actual problem is fear of failure, and/or fear of
mediocrity, rather than shyness per se?

When you meet new people, do you show them a different you, one who doesn't
write songs or think about writing apps or starting businesses? One who is
safe from criticism, because he/she doesn't do anything that would be worth
criticising?

The two things are not necessarily related, but I've come to see both of them
in myself. For a long time I've had two very different sets of thoughts and
activities, internal ones that I didn't tell people about and external ones
that I did. I convinced myself that noone IRL was interested in the first set
of stuff (projects, niche interests, thought experiments) so I just kept it
all to myself, sharing it online or (mostly) not at all. It's only recently
that I'm starting to let more of that out, overcoming the fear of either
boring people, sounding silly, or being ridiculed.

Things that have helped me have been:

\- Getting involved with a group of people (IRL) who are interested in the
same things. In my case it's been helping found a Hackerspace, but in your
case music could be an equally good outlet and support group. This has helped
me get used to talking about those things, and it's helped me feel more
legitimate about these things being of interest and worth to other people, and
not lame/useless/boring.

\- Social media. It's convenient to be able to occasionally give notice of
your thoughts and activities to a fairly wide group of people you know in
person, without any obligation for them to respond if they don't want to or
are not interested. I've been surprised at how many people have shown interest
(both online and offline in social situations), though.

I still have a fair way to go. For example, I created a blog to help encourage
me to push projects through to completion (or failure) instead of abandoning
them early on. However, I haven't written up any of the things that I'm
working on yet, instead I can always rationalise an excuse about "no time to
write about it" or "not quite good enough for public consumption yet".

~~~
ptn
Wow...that's exactly the case. I have felt for a long time that I am two
_very_ different guys, one when I'm alone, my true self, and the one that
meets people and doesn't tell anything about the other one, actively hiding
him. I now see that the reason is that I don't want to give others a chance to
criticize me.

~~~
angusgr
I thought you sounded a bit like me in the OP. :).

From the vague amount of pop psychology that I know, the "two different guys"
is the hallmark of an introverted personality, and totally common. Although I
think the amount of difference varies between people.

It also reveals the distinction between "introverted" and "shy". We
introverted people aren't necessarily shy. It's possible to have a very open,
outgoing, public persona. It's just not the same persona that you have when
you're by yourself, or perhaps with closest friends.

(Take with large grains of salt, as I'm not any kind of psychologist.)

------
sutro
Fill a bathtub up with Axe body spray, anabolic steroids, and Old Crow whiskey
and soak in it for a couple of hours. Problem solved.

