
Ask HN: How much do developers make in Toronto? - torontodevs
I&#x27;m curious about how much developers make in Toronto or Ontario in general.<p>Please describe what you do and how much you make. I&#x27;ll post mine below.
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azilnik
Sadly, the compensation for people in technology in Toronto (which includes
devs, designers, pms, etc) is less lucrative than most major metropolitan
cities in the US. I wish this wasn't the case, but in my experience, I'm
making more than double in New York than what I would be making in Toronto as
a designer. Would love to come back to Toronto if it made financial sense.

~~~
adomanico
Same story for me in SF. Would love to come back to Toronto if companies start
compensating fairly.

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jbob2000
I'm a Senior Javascript Developer in downtown Toronto making 75k.

Blatant promotion: My company is hiring more people for the same position.
We're a very small company and we build apps for hospitals and healthcare
providers around the world. Email us at careers@qochealth.com for more info :)

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cheez
Toronto is a fantastic city. I say this having lived in both New York and
Chicago. The best part about Toronto is every kind of person can and does live
here. It's a little bit different than ethnic diversity as there is also an
economic diversity. Nowhere is it more evident than the ridiculous number of
community programs available.

The other side of that coin? The pay as a developer is FUCKING SHIT.

Best strategy is to get paid in USD and live in Toronto.

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torontodevs
I'm a junior web developer with about 1 year experience writing React & ES6.

I started at $40000. After 1 year, I'm now at $53000.

I both live and work in Toronto.

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steven2012
Wow. When I started 20+ years ago in Toronto I made $30k. I can't believe that
starting salaries are that low today. Within 3 years I was making > 50k but
that's because I didn't know how to negotiate salaries. And a year later, I
moved to Silicon Valley and my salary tripled (but my rent quintupled).

Starting salaries today at most silicon valley companies are ~100k or more.

~~~
torontodevs
Well the Toronto housing market is pretty bad... Too expensive for me right
now. Currently living in a decent apartment though and it's not bad.

I'm sure the California market is worse though!

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guiomie
Rent is around twice as high, but your salary will also big twice bigger, or
more. If all you care about is money, then California is a no brainer.

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fouc
For web developers with serious skills in Ruby on Rails and/or Javascript,
(either full stack or backend):

These seem to be the typical salaries for what I've noticed from web-based
companies in Toronto. And I think it's on the low side. Developers should be
paid more.

* Intermediate level (2-4 years): $70-85K

* Senior level (5+ years): $90-120K

A web developer ultimately needs a solid handle on SQL, Javascript
(React/Angular/Ember), and a server-side language/framework like Ruby on
Rails/Node.JS/etc. And be comfortable with Linux/GNU tools. The better your
skills, the higher the salary you can command.

~~~
instakill
these intermediate ruby salaries are 3x the market price for South Africa.

~~~
MacsHeadroom
And 1/2 to 1/3 the market price for San Francisco or New York (adjusting for
CAD vs USD).

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fouc
So does that mean a Toronto Dev is 3x ZA dev

And a SF dev is a 3x Toronto dev

and that's almost a 10x ZA dev

10x devs are real?!

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instakill
fuck, so I'm a 1/10x dev :P

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laranerd
Burlington - 40 minutes from toronto Jr Web dev - Started at 40k. After 1
year, now I get 43k. I have 1.5 year experience.

~~~
torontodevs
Are there many jobs in Burlington? It's beautiful there, I drove through last
weekend.

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busterarm
I haven't been there in just over 10 years but as I recall most professionals
work in Hamilton or Toronto.

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torontodevs
I'm also interested in Hamilton, so this is good to know.

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throwaway8088
Senior backend dev, many years of experience. I made $130k CAD/yr from 2011 to
2013 at three different local companies. I've been working remotely for a US
company since 2014 and making $130k USD/yr, which translate to about $170k
CAD. Wife also makes a little over $165k CAD/yr. All full-time positions, no
contracts.

~~~
throwz
I'm going to be relocating soon and am looking to maintain my current US job.
How does the remote situation work from a tax/legal perspective?

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throwaway0331
Senior database dev in Toronto, working for a large utility. 112k salary.
Contractors here earn between $50 - $90/hr.

I haven't examined alternatives too closely, but I get the sense that I'm
approaching the top end of the salaried pay scale around here (GTA).

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throwaway5906
Making just over 50K as a Java Application developer right out of school.

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RodericDay
Not directly relevant to Toronto, but may help evaluate comparing costs of
living &c: I'm making 65k in Montreal in my first software job, working with
Django + misc.

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dthakur
It was a bad situation when I worked there a few years ago. Looking at the
answers, things haven't changed.

I encourage you to take employment in US, if that's a possibility for you.

~~~
laranerd
Hmm. I'm currently employed in Canada as a Web Developer. Are there many
opportunities for Web developer in US ? I have 1.5 year experience and not so
confident I can get a good job in US. I'm thinking about that since my family
is moving to the states.

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whalesalad
For what it's worth, I was offered a senior-level engineering position at a
fairly small company in Toronto which had recently been purchased by a public
one for ~120k (CAD) annually. This translates to roughly 91k USD.
Unfortunately due to some past legal issues entering Canada is not in the
cards for me, so I had to decline the offer.

The stack would have been a PHP monolith moving towards small/polyglot
microservices with an Angular front-end component.

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lhorie
It varies a lot. Most people whose salary I know earn between 70k and 120k.
Entry-level frontend devs go for around 50k-70k. Tech director level goes for
around 120k-140k.

When I worked for a Toronto firm (1.5 yrs ago), I made 96k doing Angular. Now,
I do remote consulting and it's very difficult to find anyone in Toronto
willing to match what I currently make. Highest I've seen from a recruiter is
150-160k for a CTO role.

~~~
throwaway8087
Any tips on making the transition to remote consulting? I've made some half-
hearted attempts to do the same, but quickly gave up and went back to working
for local companies.

~~~
lhorie
I wouldn't call myself an expert in remote consulting, but being the author of
a thousands-of-github-stars open source web application framework helped me a
lot.

Be prepared to convince people that you can do everything. The Github
portfolio / streed cred thing above helps a lot in giving weight to your
words.

Look for companies in tech hub cities that do consulting themselves. Even in
Toronto, those types of companies have the best offers salary-wise, in my
experience. SF is the stupidly obvious choice for tech hub cities and
consequently, it's extremely crowded and harder to get into. There are many
other US cities that have lively startup scenes.

Startups == funding == people w/ money looking for someone to build their
stuff == profit

~~~
throwaway8087
Thanks, that's actually some very helpful advice.

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throwaway200
Early startup employee. Officially a "VP", more of a principal programmer.
iOS, Android, web, server, whatever I-solve-problems dev.

$150k base, up to 15% bonus.

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paulbennett
This is interesting for me because I am moving to Toronto in July, I've done
research into how much I should be expecting to earn but some anecdotal
evidence is always welcome too.

The numbers compared to my current employment in Cambridge, UK seem fairly
similar, I believe living costs are pretty similar too. Not all of us have the
ability, or the desire to move to the US!

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cnfjti3
Was at a bank. Got $75k per year plus a $10k bonus at the end of the year
after 2 years of experience.

Moved to a company in the US. Now making $170k USD in total compensation.
Exactly 2x previous salary discounting exchange rate.

Incredibly sad how low the tech wages are in Canada.

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throwaway8087
$80/hour as a highly experienced web application developer on a medium-term
contract.

~~~
e12e
Is that billable hours, or would it be fair to guess at ~2000 hours/year, for
~160k/year?

~~~
throwaway8087
Yes to both. It is billable hours which would total 2000 hours/year, if the
project lasts that long. However, the startup might choose to pivot away from
this project at any point.

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throwaway8086
105,000k (before taxes) + bonus at a bank.

Works out to taking home 5200 CAD per month.

~~~
nacs
Why is the take home so much less ($3550 less per month)? Are taxes that high
in CA?

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purephase
Yes. They're that high in that pay bracket.

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AnonNo15
I am a web developer (JS and Python), making 72k

Not too far from downtown Toronto

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browseatwork
Worth looking into the the cost of living in the Toronto (or any) area. What
you make matters much more in context of what you spending power will be.

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aiotaa
Senior developer in Ottawa, not Toronto. Currently working mainly in Pascal
and C++. Salary is $90K - $110K, unionized environment

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instakill
Just under $30,000 PA when converted to USD from local currency - full stack
developer.

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nibs
Junior: $25-30/hour

Senior: $40-60/hour

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mooreds
[http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Job=Software_Developer/S...](http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Job=Software_Developer/Salary/df837bdc/Toronto-
ON) may be interest.

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fatbabyin
How much would data engineers make (scala, spark, kafka) ?

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hardwaresofton
I'd encourage you to look at glassdoor
([https://www.glassdoor.com](https://www.glassdoor.com)). One of the best
sites for finding out what people are getting paid and whether your pay is
truly competitive.

