
Alphabet's Sidewalk Labs to turn 800 acres of Toronto into an “internet city” - jonas21
https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/17/16488942/alphabet-sidewalk-labs-toronto-quayside
======
goatforce5
Waterfront Toronto, the agency that Alphabet is partnering with, is also
responsible for the redevelopment of the Canary District (which is immediately
to the north of the area that Google has just got involved with).

When they launched they put out some press releases about how the Canary
District was going to have free neighbourhood wifi and other fancy things. As
far as I can tell, that never happened, yet they won an award for it being an
"intelligent community".

> Even as the network is being built out, it’s already winning accolades. Last
> year it helped the City of Toronto earn the title of the world’s No. 1
> Intelligent Community of the Year as chosen by the Intelligent Community
> Forum in New York.

Anyone have details?

[http://nationalpost.com/life/homes/full-speed-ahead-
torontos...](http://nationalpost.com/life/homes/full-speed-ahead-torontos-new-
waterfront-communities-get-really-wired-up)

~~~
WrkInProgress
Well they did bring fibre to the two existing developments in the Canary
District. And for a far better price than than Canadians are used to with the
big 3. I don't really see a lot of innovation, they were just able to sign a
10 year contract with Beanfield.

The Canary District is far from finished, so perhaps some of that
infrastructure will be built out when it is completed.

Also, a lot of the developments they mentioned have yet to be completed
(Monde, Waterfront Innovation Centre, Tridel's Aqualina/Aquavista _) and aren
't even in the "Canary District".

_ One of these just started occupancy.

~~~
cal5k
I'm in the Merchandise building, and we have Beanfield too. So I'm not sure
what's so special about that.

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bogomipz
>"So what would a city designed by Google look like? It would likely include
features such as LinkNYC, the public Wi-Fi hubs installed around New York
City."

Make not mistake about it the LinkNYC "kiosks" are digital billboards that
give allow Google to flash ads at residents on every block. I haven't seen
anyone engaging with these "kisoks" for any kind of informational purposes. On
rare occasions I have seen someone using them to charge their USB device.

~~~
rememberlenny
The more interesting aspect are the always on cameras that are built into each
billboard. The data being collected and analyzed across a city over time must
be generating very valuable data.

~~~
vm
Reminds me of eye-scan advertising in Minority Report:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bXJ_obaiYQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bXJ_obaiYQ)

~~~
btown
Relevant: [https://www.bestvpn.com/privacy-news/widespread-facial-
recog...](https://www.bestvpn.com/privacy-news/widespread-facial-recognition/)

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chollida1
To be followed shortly by amazon's second head quarters:)

I didn't see the link posted but this is probably a better link....
[https://sidewalktoronto.ca/](https://sidewalktoronto.ca/)

Toronto is a funny city. Most cities play up their coast line, Toronto gets
scummier as you move towards the water, though they are addressing it and its
improved a lot over the past 10 years with the condo boom.

I really hope they can do something productive with the land because right now
its a big eye sore and its a prime location right in the heart of the city.

~~~
microcolonel
As someone who currently lives on said coastline, I'm really not sure what you
mean by "scummier". In my humble opinion, it is the most pleasant part of the
city, more than half of it is accessible parkland of some sort.

This is what I saw from my roof a couple days ago:
[https://twitter.com/aaronmhamilton/status/919820166833242112](https://twitter.com/aaronmhamilton/status/919820166833242112)

The only sorta crummy building on the waterfront from this vantage is the
Canada Malting Silos, but even that has its charm.

To me, a lot of the rest of the city is an eyesore. Unfortunately a lot of the
large buildings in Toronto are brutal postmodern slabs of concrete spiritual
oppression, including many around New City Hall.

The Port Lands are not actually so bad at the shore, some of the industrial
stuff like the Hearn coal reactor and the recycling plant that went up in
flames a month or so ago is a bit rough, but it's convenient to the city that
these things are within city limits. It is exceptionally unusual to have
facilities like those on the Port Lands and the island airport this close to
the city center.

~~~
dnbsbsva
The Hearn is one of the most beautiful and unique buildings in the city.
Luminato Festival has used the space for the past two years, and I hope to see
more diverse programming there in the future. I would extend similar praise to
the malting silos - both are historic structures that, while certainly
deteriorating and in need of repair and upgrades, are some of the few
buildings that give the waterfront and Port Lands an identity different to
that of the rest of the city. When developers have their way and structures
like these disappear to make way for thoughtless, cheaply constructed condo
buildings, the city will lose some of the few facets of identity that remain.

Developers have already ransacked almost everything south of the Gardiner at
this point, so I suppose it's only a matter of time until they turn the rest
of the city into a quick buck as well.

~~~
microcolonel
Yeah, the lack of character and thoughtfulness in the new buildings going up
is among my reasons for looking to move out (right beside the decline of the
government's respect for civil liberties, and the increase in outright
corruption with the majority party under the leadership of a snowboard
instructor).

~~~
52-6F-62
Were you just looking for an opportunity to slag Trudeau? Last time I checked
he isn't mayor of Toronto -- unless there's just something I don't know about
John Tory. Maybe you can root for Doug Ford in the next mayoral round. I mean,
we're talking about Toronto, right?

~~~
microcolonel
Moving to the United States of America, I mean. Toronto is in Ontario, which
is in Canada. The Mayor of Toronto largely fine, the Premier of Ontario is
questionable, the Prime Minister of Canada is concerning.

You sure have made a lot of assumptions about me: I'd advise you to keep them
to yourself, Rob.

~~~
spollo
If there's anyone I would be concerned about it's the Ontario premier, but
sure go on ahead down to the US where they ostensibly don't build uninspired
buildings in their cities or something.

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zitterbewegung
And then in a year or two they will close down Sidewalk Labs and their
services will be in maintenance mode.

~~~
stuffedBelly
aha, what's Google's robotics division called again?

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salqadri
This reminds me of Google's efforts to reduce harmful mosquitos in Fresno, CA
by introducing millions of sterile mosquitos
([http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-
way/2017/07/21/538470321/...](http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-
way/2017/07/21/538470321/to-shrink-the-mosquito-population-scientists-are-
releasing-20-million-of-them)). I visited Fresno last month, and Fresnonians
seem generally very annoyed at the insane amount of Google mosquitos in the
city now but remain hopeful that this will be better for them in the long-
haul.

~~~
ehsankia
It seems like the residents don't really know what's going on and their
experiences are biased by what they think is going on.

Google targeted a very specific specie of mosquito, which population-wise is
probably insignificant in the perceivable number of mosquito you would notice.
Aedes aegypti is a specie which generally lives in tropic environment, but was
brought over accidentally. The musquitos released are also male and do not
bite.

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bogomipz
>"Sidewalk Labs, the smart city subsidiary of Alphabet with the stated goal of
“reimagining cities from the Internet up,” now has a very big sandbox in which
to conduct its high-tech experiments."

This is some of the "reimagining" and type of "experiments" Toronto residents
can look forward to:

[http://observer.com/2017/06/new-belgium-intersection-link-
ny...](http://observer.com/2017/06/new-belgium-intersection-link-nyc-voodoo-
ranger/)

------
Animats
Don't forget that Google made similar claims for Google Fiber back in 2012.[1]
And Google WiFi in 2006.[2]

[1]
[http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17081508](http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17081508)

[2] [https://gizmodo.com/mountain-view-is-installing-wi-fi-
becaus...](https://gizmodo.com/mountain-view-is-installing-wi-fi-because-
googles-free-1442975805)

~~~
AceJohnny2
Oh man, Mountain View. I remember how the quality was already a joke in 2011.
The network's completely gone today.

In fact, I think XKCD's "Wifi vs. Cellular" [1] strip summarizes the situation
perfectly. Nowadays I frequently _disable_ wifi on my phone in problematic
areas of my house or work, because LTE works better. Makes me wish for a
femtocell...

[1] [https://xkcd.com/1865/](https://xkcd.com/1865/)

That said, I assume Google is bringing lessons learned with their Access
infrastructure work along with WiFi optimization as showcased in their Home
hub, and things will work better this time around.

~~~
ajdlinux
Anyone here who understands Wifi + mobile networks better than I do able to
ELI5 why 3/4G is more reliable than 802.11 in so many situations?

~~~
rayiner
Probably lot's of different reasons. WiFi networks have to share unlicensed
bands with other WiFi networks and hundreds of other things. Cellular networks
have dedicated spectrum. LTE also uses a more integrated and centralized set
of protocols for connection setup ("attach") and traffic management. See:
[https://hpbn.co/mobile-networks](https://hpbn.co/mobile-networks) (scroll
down to "radio resource control"). For example, getting an IP address is part
of the attach procedure. (I feel like DHCP is responsible for 99% of flaky
WiFi). Also, the RRC controls each cellular radio to a much greater extent
than the 802.11 base station controls each 802.11 device.

~~~
ajdlinux
All good points.

Also as someone who's a software engineer working in the firmware space, I
suspect LTE base stations are just plain more reliable than home WiFi
routers...

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plumeria
Is the underground network of autonomous vehicles for deliveries and waste
management just a sketch or actually in the works? [1]

[1]
[https://www.sidewalklabs.com/assets/uploads/2016/10/171012_S...](https://www.sidewalklabs.com/assets/uploads/2016/10/171012_Sustainability.png)

~~~
serhei
I'm more concerned about whether the streetcar running on top of there will
ever be more than just a sketch. An extension of the streetcar network in that
direction has been proposed, canceled, procrastinated, debated for years but
nothing actually happening so far.

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megy
Hopefully there isn't so many damn roads and highway, something that Toronto
doesn't need more of.

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rglover
Detroit 2.

