
DevBootCamp: Learn Ruby on Rails in 9 Weeks - jeffpersonified
http://devbootcamp.com
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lachyg
Wow! Didn't expect to see this here for a while. We've just finished
redeveloping the entire Dev Bootcamp website. Still a few kinks to iron out,
especially for smaller screen sizes. We'll be making it responsive.

Chris Jennings (from <http://chrisjennings.com>) did all the creative work.

I'm more than happy to answer any questions about Dev Bootcamp, but I think
this does a good job at tackling a few of them:
[http://www.quora.com/Programming-Bootcamps/Other-than-
locati...](http://www.quora.com/Programming-Bootcamps/Other-than-location-
what-are-the-differences-between-the-various-developer-bootcamps-with-
physical-locations-in-the-US/answer/Lachy-Groom?__snids__=57020605#ans1528745)

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elmuchoprez
I'd be curious why RoR (not that I disagree with that decision)? Did you find
a competitive advantage over say PHP or Python? Is it easier to teach? More
job opportunities? Picked out of a hat?

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jfarmer
Hi there! I'm a teacher at Dev Bootcamp. I'll quote my answer to this question
on Quora (<http://b.qr.ae/QkkZtu>), "Are there any programming bootcamps like
Dev Bootcamp or Bloc.io that are Python/Django focused?"

The tl;dr is "No, not really. It's the right mix between what we know and a
good beginner language."

The language and technologies you learn are not the most important bit when it
comes to becoming a programmer. When friends ask me whether they should learn
Ruby or Python I respond by asking "Which language do more of your friends
know?"

Motivation, frustration tolerance, social support, and access to expertise are
all more important than the raw language when you're trying to become a
programmer. Python, Ruby, C#, Clojure, Objective-C, etc. are just means to
that end.

Consider this: if you speak Ruby, understand the fundamentals of software
engineering, and maintain a beginner's mind
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin>) then it will take weeks -- if not
days -- to reach the same level of competence in Python.

Dev Bootcamp focuses on Ruby, Rails, and JavaScript, for example, but two
students from our most recent class received job offers from Hipmunk, a Python
shop. Some students from the spring work at companies where most of the code
they write is Java or PHP.

IMO a good programming bootcamp aims to teach you to program as if it were
teaching you English poetry. Knowing a particular language, whether it's
Python or anything else, is like knowing how to write in English.

To be sure, you have to know how to write English before you can write English
poetry, but that's the smallest part of being a poet.

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irollboozers
I'm really jealous of the folks who can do this. Unfortunately, I feel like
young people will not be able to afford this. Which makes me wonder, what's
the average age of people attending?

Despite being really jealous for how easy this makes it look to 'learn to be a
hacker', I personally will stick to the Zed Shaw school of learning.

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dladowitz
I just finished the summer class. I think the average age was somewhere
between 25-28 yrs old.

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nhangen
Looked neat, and then I saw this:

"You qualify for a $500 scholarship if you're female or from an ethnic
minority group underrepresented in the software engineering field (African
American, Chicano/Latino, Native American, Pacific Islander, etc.). The tech
world is notoriously unrepresentative of the larger population. We believe
that the sooner that changes, the better off we all are."

How is that not discrimination?

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getsat
Wow. They could have saved space and just said "(not White, Asian, or
Indian)".

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unit_testing
You're right.

People with dwarfism are disproportionally not software developers, too, but
it's not trendy to care about them, so DevBootCamp doesn't care.

Transgender people are disproportionally not software developers, but it's not
trendy to care about them, so DevBootCamp doesn't care.

White males born into poverty are disproportionally not software developers,
but it's not trendy to care about them, so DevBootCamp doesn't care.

Hey, DevBootCamp: What makes an affluent latina more important to you than an
impoverished white male? What makes an affluent white woman more important to
you than an impoverished Indian with dwarfism?

Your organization is _toxic_. Go away.

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bgilroy26
Hey, I'm not the biggest "diversity" cheerleader in the world, but I think
this criticism is over the top.

There is a significant difference between an organization's stated rules and
what you can make a phone call and get just for trying. If you belong to the
category of not being a white or Asian man, give it a shot.

Being a sourpuss precludes working with people and figuring out what makes
sense together. It isn't a good idea.

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kapilkale
The caliber of companies interested in Dev Bootcamp grads is promising for
their model.

I'm curious about how employers have felt about the engineers they've hired
from such services vs fresh / semi-experienced engineers with CS degrees.

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lachyg
Jeff Dickey (<http://dickey.xxx/dev-bootcamp>), an engineer at TapJoy attended
our hiring day. They ended up hiring 7 of our grads.

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flatline3
9 weeks isn't enough time for _anyone_ to be learning how to write production-
quality code, much less take a job as anything more than an engineering
intern.

The fact that TapJoy is hiring people straight out of DevBootCamp makes me
seriously question the quality of their engineering organization, rather than
causing me to think highly of DevBootCamp (which may be an excellent program).

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dladowitz
I'm a Dev Bootcamp grad from the summer program. I also just got hired on at
Tapjoy. Can I write production-quality code? Probably not just yet. What I do
know is that Tapjoy isn't the only company hiring grads. In the last 4 weeks
since graduating about 20 people have been hired as Jr Ruby Developers at
multiple companies. Every single one of them had to go through technical
interviews to get the positions. Many companies have decided the grads have
enough real knowledge to be valuable. Average salary has been somewhere around
$84,000.

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flatline3
$84k average salary is surprisingly high for non-production-ready engineers
who are still in training, especially when compared to the rest of the
industry.

I wouldn't have expected there to be so much money in a field that is so
approachable. Is there a dearth of quality rails engineers, or is it related
to web engineers in general?

To tell you the truth, this makes me wonder whether there's significant
opportunity in the web space for senior engineers with traditional software
engineering backgrounds. If people are so desperate that they're willing to
hire brand-new engineers at an $84k average and spend months/years training
them, how much will they pay for people that require no training at all?

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roguecoder
You assume that people with traditional software engineering backgrounds need
no training to move into web development, which is not what I've observed. In
fact, I have personally seen several who either weren't willing or weren't
able to acquire the new skills required at all.

How many C++ programmers grok CSS? How many Java programmers understand
prototypes? How many enterprise developers are used to shipping code at least
weekly? No CS degree I've seen has covered analytics, or even effective
logging at scale. As much as CS-oriented coders look down their nose at web
devs there are skills involved. If engineers can adapt there are huge payoffs
sitting on the table, but they have to actually do so. There aren't very many
who have, not nearly enough to meet demand, and so prices rise and companies
swap from teaching web development on the job to teaching CS on the job.

~~~
flatline3
The skills you list involve very simple knowledge acquisition. Once you have
core CS competency, you can pick those things up _very_ easily, and do a
better job by far than the person that lacks the core CS competency.

To use your examples:

* I'd never worked with web CSS, but I built a CSS styling system for iOS, and used the CSS spec for inspiration.

* I've never worked with web analytics, but I ran a team that built a real-time (non-web) custom analytics/logging/querying system for a _huge_ consumer-facing corporation.

* My team had never written any sizable JavaScript, HTML, or CSS, nor had any familiarity with prototype languages, but we were able to bang out a comprehensive HTML/JS XMPP client using BOSH in a couple weeks. We had an external HTML and web design expert on-hand to actually make it look pretty.

I think the real reason the engineers don't adapt is that we'd have to go work
in environments that are filled with less skilled people using frustratingly
knee-capped technologies. I might be able to stomach HTML/JS/CSS despite their
myriad of flaws, but I'm not sure I could do it if I also had to use Rails and
Ruby working for one of the existing players.

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bjoyce1
Disclaimer: I'm heading out to DBC to join the Fall Cohort! The revamp looks
fantastic. The home page and the video give a great explanation as to why
devbootcamp can be of such benefit. No time wasters needed. People who are
willing to put in the hours and get the work done. The FAQ gives a good
insight into what it's all about. A coherent well put together targeted
approach to learning web development. I'm sure DBC will be as engaging as the
new website is.

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suter
This site is absolutely beautiful. Well done. I'd love to know a little more
about the tools (generators?) that were used as it appears to be a completely
static site.

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jfarmer
It's hosted on GitHub Pages and generated with Jekyll. We also use CloudFlare
for our CDN and other asset optimization.

* <http://pages.github.com/>

* <https://github.com/mojombo/jekyll>

* <https://www.cloudflare.com>

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at-fates-hands
How do employers weight this kind of experience when considering a graduate of
this program? I'm sure there's a lot of companies in around SF who already
know DevBootCamp, but what about employers outside of California?

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dpritchett
I'm sure the right employers love it. These are literally the least pricy
Rubyists available in the U.S. that can be proven to actually know how to
code.

Good fit for a fast growing Ruby shop that is not too picky about depth of
technical skills.

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ionwake
I am a bit of a newb to this site - I just wanted to thank you for a JS
explanation you gave me 104 days ago. cheers! = )

dpritchett 104 days ago | link | parent

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crazypyro
All of the mics on the video only come out on my left speaker. The music comes
out both...

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aidscholar
Anyone know if there is something similar for people who can't attend during
work hours (but willing to put in a full shift after work/weekends)?

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mattnguyen
bloc.io

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lsiebert
Well I like the site. I don't suppose there are any plans to have additional
campuses in the bay area?

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ProfessorNipple
Did DBC do away with the payment plan for tuition?

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photoGrant
And I still don't know how much it costs.

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lachyg
If you click "Tuition" (second from right) it explains the pricing.

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photoGrant
There we go, thank you!

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D9u
No mobile layout? Tsk tsk!

