

Nexus 5 to be first smartphone with MEMS camera - codelike
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Nexus-5-to-be-first-smartphone-with-MEMS-camera-fastest-on-a-phone-Lytro-like-functionality_id47900

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jordanthoms
This may be a false alarm. The string they found - IMX179 - seems to be
actually a Sony sensor part, which is in use on other phones also. (I.E. the
Meizu MX3). It appears in the MEMS documentation which is ranked first in
Google because their sensor package is based on the IMX179.

However, going by the sample shots from the MX3, it looks to be a good sensor
- so hopefully it still has a good camera (my nexus 4 camera produces really
bad results sometimes).

~~~
benjamincburns
iMX is also a Freescale application processor series, though unless they've
introduced a new line under that product family I don't think it fits their
part number scheme.

~~~
sciwiz
Sony's image sensors have had the IMX naming scheme for a few years.

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Osmium
Can't speak about the camera or if this is just a marketing gimmick or not,
but I can say that MEMS technology is _really cool._

Since the article does a pretty poor job of explaining what MEMS technology
can do, it's probably best shown by example, e.g. see this MEMS gear!

[http://www.sfu.ca/immr/projects/ensc494-01/acoppin/images/Pa...](http://www.sfu.ca/immr/projects/ensc494-01/acoppin/images/Pawl-
gear1.jpg)

And an article here with some more images:
[http://www.physicscentral.com/explore/action/machines.cfm](http://www.physicscentral.com/explore/action/machines.cfm)

What's really fun is when you need to start accounting for, say, the
electrostatic interactions between atoms in your gear design! Of course, MEMS
devices are probably already in your phone. They're commonly used for
accelerometers, e.g. see here [http://www.geekmomprojects.com/gyroscopes-and-
accelerometers...](http://www.geekmomprojects.com/gyroscopes-and-
accelerometers-on-a-chip/) Cool stuff!

~~~
alok-g
>> What's really fun is when you need to start accounting for, say, the
electrostatic interactions between atoms in your gear design!

They do, though often to avoid device failures. Search for "MEMS Stiction"

~~~
HCIdivision17
I was going to mention this. Stiction was the bane of my effort fabricating
even the simplest components as an undergrad. My favorite part was how you can
realistically suggest using diamond ablative layers and the like. Made for fun
conversations to listen in on - invariably it sounds expensive and high tech,
regardless of if it's just sacrificial carbon.

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ambiate
My Nexus 4 paid for itself on Straight Talk within a month by selling my older
phone on craigslist. One of the best decisions I have made in a long time.

My wife's Samsung phone is so incredibly foreign to the vanilla Android
experience. I have had some recent issues with Google Maps draining my
battery, but that was corrected by simply reverting the update. All in all, a
great phone. If I destroy it, I can just get a new one for $250. Flops
consisted of the wireless battery charge, frictionless glass back that slides,
and (original) nubless back that left the speaker against the surface.

~~~
tocomment
Does straightalk work pretty well nationwide? How does it compare to major
carriers?

~~~
kevhsu
it's on AT&T's network. So it should be about the same.

~~~
tocomment
How can it be so much cheaper than AT&T? It seems almost too good to be true,
no?

I'm paying double that for way less minutes/data!

~~~
blinkingled
Straight talk's data isn't really unlimited. It's throttled to EDGE after
2.5Gb. Minutes on the other hand work out well.

~~~
gcb0
My att unlimited is the same for $30/mo extra

------
arkitaip
I am a very happy nexus 4 owner but the camera was obviously sub par; slow
focus, dull colors and lack of sharpness were major problems. Glad to see that
they're putting more effort on the camera in the nexus 5.

~~~
_neil
Seriously awful. All of my instagram shots are blurry/grainy. The upside is
that I've had a reason to practice sniper-like breathing techniques. Not that
it helps with photo quality.

What's weird is that the preview snap might look fine, but what gets saved to
the device is always really poor.

~~~
hayksaakian
Pro Tip: if you use a timed shot you will almost always get better pictures.

When you tap "take photo" on your screen you actually subtly nudge the phone
and it slightly looses focus at the worst possible time.

~~~
_neil
When you say timed shot, do you mean set the phone on something and remove my
hands from the equation entirely? If so, what about downward shots? (Which,
coincidentally, most of my photos are.)

Usually I reduce the tap-nudge by doing hold-and-release rather than a quick
tap to take a photo. I'll give the timed shot a go and see how it works out.
Thanks.

Edit: Eh. Better, but still quite blurry and off color compared to my iPhone
4.

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beambot
"First of a kind camera called MEMS" is _very_ disingenuous. MEMS is a series
of technologies -- ie. MicroElectroMechanical Systems, and includes a lot of
different sensors (eg. accelerometers and gyros). Also, piezoelectric MEMS
focusing elements have been available for micro cameras for some time --
definitely not new (though perhaps first mass-market?). Bad reporting.

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unicornporn
I'd say "Lytro functionality" (focus after capture) is perhaps most pointless
feature ever in a small sensor camera. The only time one might come across
some slightly shallow depth of field to play around with post-capture is when
the subject matter is really close (and the background far away).

Faster focusing is welcome though.

~~~
kbrower
Google has hired the developer of SynthCam, which is IMO the most interesting
computational bokeh app. Combine that with the ability of the mems system and
a fast image sensor to capture images at every focus point and estimate depth
based on what is in focus in each image. You can then pick what you want
blurry and what you want in focus and even how blurry you want the blurry
parts to be. I hope they can make this all seamless in the nexus 5.

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iwasakabukiman
It's not anything like Lytro, though. From what the article says, it just
takes images rapidly and then you choose the one that's most in focus.

Still, being able to focus faster and snap rapid images is a good thing. It
makes getting quality pictures easier, especially with kids, who are
notoriously blurry.

~~~
turing
They don't claim that it's technologically similar to Lytro, just that it can
offer similar functionality. To get any idea of what they mean, watch the
YouTube demo at the end of the post[1]. At about 1:37 they show off being able
to change the point of focus after the fact.

[http://youtu.be/idtmJBa5u3Q](http://youtu.be/idtmJBa5u3Q)

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alok-g
It is certainly a marketing gimmick to call this a MEMS camera. MEMS here is
used just to move the (usual) lens around for focusing the image on the
(usual) sensor. Agreed that this may bring advantages, but "MEMS camera" may
now deceive thousands of people into thinking it to be a fundamentally
different type of camera, which it is not.

This is no different than LED TVs where the fundamental component that
actually synthesizes the pictures is still LCD, just the back-light uses LEDs
instead of CFLs.

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jister
Lumia 1020 so far has the best camera

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JimmaDaRustla
Good, the Nexus 4 camera is terrible.

~~~
tjbiddle
You think? Maybe I haven't been comparing to the right phones - but I'm
extremely happy with mine!

~~~
untog
I have one and I'd definitely regard it as a terrible camera - particularly
compared to my friend's iPhone photos.

~~~
kamjam
A Nexus 4 cost $359 at launch here in Canada. An iPhone 5 cost around $700,
almost twice the price offline. You can't really compare the 2 products
directly.

It's like comparing a Ford with a Ferrari. You would be better comparing the
iPhone with a Samsung Galaxy S4 since they are similar price points.

~~~
hexley
It's a much worse camera than what's in the 4S even.

~~~
kamjam
Yes, I am not arguing that. What I am saying is if you pay peanuts, you will
get monkeys.

You need to compare a $360 with a $360 phone, and you need to compare a $700
phone (iPhone) with a $700 (Samsung S4/Sony Z1/HTC Onc etc)

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jareds
I was going to buy a Nexus 4 as an Android device to play with, not as a
primary phone. Since they sold out and I don’t feel like spending $350 on a
phone I won’t use as a phone, I bought a refurbished $119 Nexus 7 first gen on
EBay instead. I’d be happy with a lower spec phone that has a smaller screen
running stock Android for around $250 but it appears no such thing exists.

~~~
karma_fountain
8Gb Nexus 4 is £150.

~~~
jareds
That is currently $243.43 and I don't know what is involved in ordering from
England and shipping to America. It's out of stock in the United States.

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NatW
In practical terms, my guess is that focusing will:

\- occur noticeably faster (for potentially faster shots)

\- use less power (for longer battery life)

\-- The fast/re-engineered focusing might then enable you to take photos in
new modes, e.g: in an "idiot proof" spray, quickly snapping shots at different
focus depths very quickly - which you can select from afterwords.

I don't personally see much appeal of the 'idiot proof' application yet,
(though I could be convinced) but the first two seem like decent improvements.

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Mithaldu
Assuming the article is right:

Will they make sure that the 450ms savings over the 600ms average will be
useful enough, by reducing the 8 second time from locked phone to photo shot
as well?

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zizee
Is the device actually called the Nexus 5? I have a feeling that people are
calling it the Nexus 5, as it is the replacement for the Nexus 4, but that's
not how the naming scheme works.

Isn't the 4 in Nexus 4 because the screen is 4 inches? Same with the Nexus 7
having a 7 inch screen. When the Nexus 7 replacement came out, it was called
the Nexus 7, because it had the same size screen.

Does this new device have a 5 inch screen?

Pedantic minds need to know!

~~~
poglet
Leaked specs also mention a 4.97 inch display.

~~~
zizee
Awesome info, thanks.

Wow, some of these phones are getting pretty large. Especially considering
this is Google's flagship phone. I wonder what size it will max out at?

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Splendor
Fast focusing is neat, but I'll wait to see how it compares to current top-end
smartphone cameras that offer backside illuminated sensors with larger pixels.

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axus
Did the Nexus 5 receive FCC approval before the US government shutdown kicked
in?

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andrewpi
Parts of the FCC operate on user fees, thus would be unaffected by the
shutdown.

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piyush_soni
Probably not. [http://www.androidauthority.com/nexus-5-feature-mems-
camera-...](http://www.androidauthority.com/nexus-5-feature-mems-camera-
probably-279222/)

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chimeracoder
Why is this article tagged "Verizon"? It's all-but-confirmed at this point
that Verizon users are going to be left high-and-dry with this Nexus upgrade,
for the second time in a row. </rant>

\- A frustrated Verizon user still using his 2-year-old Galaxy Nexus.

~~~
gtaylor
I too am a frustrated Verizon + Galaxy Nexus user, but I'll be leaving them in
December when my contract is up. They have handled their Android line
terribly, and I can't blame Google for not wanting to deal with them. I STILL
haven't got Android 4.3 on this "flagship" device, and it's their fault. I
can't uninstall their bloatware without rooting, either.

Net 10, Straight Talk, and a few others are what I'm looking at now. Going to
save a ton of money and get a better device with comparable service.

~~~
methodin
Any reason you don't root? Just rooted and installed CM10.1 on my Verizon
Galaxy S3 the other day and it's night and day difference. So much better than
the crap they'd be pushing anyway.

~~~
gtaylor
I have before, but I shouldn't _have_ to. CM can be pretty janky at times,
particularly with the GPS. If I'm shelling out this much for a "flagship
device", I shouldn't have to flash a custom ROM to stay up to date. I just
want it to work and expect to get my updates like a Nexus device does.

~~~
methodin
Well GPS was always shitty on mine, as well was wifi stopped working (on stock
software) so I had nothing to lose. No issues with it yet.

~~~
abrahamsen
Apparently the Galaxy S3 is notorious for GPS issues, and those issues have an
easy fix: Tighten the screws on the back.

[http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2201668](http://forum.xda-
developers.com/showthread.php?t=2201668)

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meerita
I'm so waiting this phone. Does anyone waiting it? I am an iPhone 5 owner but
planning to change this time. After using the Nexus 4 a bit I enjoyed many
things.

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zng
MEMS camera - but no microSD slot.

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barista
Good that Nexus is stepping up its game. After Nokia hit it out of the park
with its Lumia 1020 camera, using any other smartphone camera was sub par.
Glad that we will have some competition. Of course its not just about focusing
speed. Hope the sensor can produce some good images

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avty
And what is the disadvantage?

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beyondcompute
When there will be an Android smartphone which is not ugly?

~~~
fpgeek
Um, what about the HTC One?

~~~
kamjam
Samsung Galaxy S4 isn't bad looking either. I'm also a fan of the Sony Xperia
line up.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!

