

Why are Apple laptops becoming harder to take apart? - shawndumas
http://rc3.org/2012/06/16/why-are-apple-laptops-becoming-harder-to-take-apart/

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trustfundbaby
What I don't understand is why this is an either-or proposition ... was it
really that impossible to build these laptops without alienating the
'enthusiasts' ... people who actually want to swap out hard drives, or RAM?

I just spent two years transitioning my life away from windows, which I used
for about 15 years, to OS X just to suddenly find that I can't run out and buy
a new SSD hard drive to try on my system if I wanted to ... brilliant. The
best part is, If reading HN threads where people are basically agreeing with
this nonsense, because Apple made the decision.

Thats right, just keep taking away choices from the user until the entire
company and its customers become one huge parody. oh, hang on ... we're
already there. yuck.

PS: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYecfV3ubP8>

~~~
jaems33
Well technically, you can upgrade the SSD by buying one specific to the
MacBook Pro, as OWC has done for the MacBook Air.

~~~
trustfundbaby
QED

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jrockway
I look at it as a power play for creating more loyal consumers. Apple asserts
its power by making the device unusable except for its intended purpose. You
assert your submission by paying money for the device and using it like you
should. Like it or not, dominance and submission is a powerful concept for
humans, and Apple is exploiting this to get more of your laptop and tablet
dollar.

(The arguments about thinness make no sense. A torx screw is just as thin as a
pentalobular screw. The unusual screw design is there solely as a "fuck you"
gesture, which many people react quite positively to.)

~~~
stcredzero
_Apple asserts its power by making the device unusable except for its intended
purpose._

How is this distinguishable from paring a device down to the elements
necessary for its function? The ultimate in "form follows function" design
would produce something fairly close to what you state.

 _Like it or not, dominance and submission is a powerful concept for humans,
and Apple is exploiting this to get more of your laptop and tablet dollar._

Yeah, I always did have some sense that dominance of an aesthetic or cultural
sort was somehow underlying everything they did. (And in some sense, it's
always been a disturbing sense.)

------
band5
If you would like to upgrade your laptops, there would be many non-Apple
products.

For most people, replacement would be a better choice then upgrade.

~~~
chii
"For most people, replacement would be a better choice then upgrade."

i dont believe so - they are marketed to as being the better choice. However,
a small upgrade (e.g., an extra stick of ram, a bigger SSD) is really all a
consumer level user would need for a computer to last a bit more than 5 years.
Obviously, this path sells less. But then you ahve to ask, why is it that you
need to buy a new computer? its such a waste if the current one is only
slightly slower, and a small upgrade will make it last another couple of
years.

------
Arelius
> We have consistently voted for hardware that’s thinner rather than
> upgradeable

I'm ok with that, I'd prefer to get thinner hardware than hardware that I can
upgrade, many of us have never upgraded a laptop anyways, and that's OK.

------
azat_co
I always liked to dig into hardware. I customized and assembled my own PCs
from bare-bone kits. But with Apple products it doesn't make sense anymore I
would rather have a new laptop/iPad/phone every year or so than try to revive
outdated piece. I guess this trend will continue and computers will become
more like microwave ovens or TV set. How many people upgrade their
microwaves?! :)

~~~
thisduck
How many people install software on their microwaves?

~~~
johnny22
the software is the most important part. the hardware should be all but
irrelevant except for aesthetics.

~~~
stcredzero
That the software works correctly with the specific hardware is the important
part.

------
jinushaun
Because Apple's end game has always been to turn the computer into an
appliance. This is not a new development. This strategy failed for decades
until the PC became ubiquitous and mass market. When computers are no longer
limited to the tech elite, Apple's strategy of dumb appliances make much more
sense. It's automatic verus manual transmission.

As for me, I've never upgraded a computer in my life beyond adding RAM,
because in 4-years time, my motherboard inevitably becomes incompatible with
everything in the market anyway. In order to upgrade, I'd have to buy a new
motherboard.

So in that case, if I end up having to build/buy a new computer every four
years anyway, is upgrading really that important? I don't upgrade my
microwave. I don't upgrade my toaster.

------
smountcastle
I agree with the author; most people don't bother cracking the case on any
computer they own. We're in the minority on this one and as the author said,
I'd rather have a MBP with Retina Display than an easy to service/upgrade
previous generation MacBook Pro (or any other brand for that matter).

My cars have become increasingly difficult to service myself over the years.
When I bought my first car over twenty years ago I could do routine
maintenance on it myself. Now when I open the hood of my Acura the whole
engine compartment is covered and pieces must be removed to service it. This
car is the most expensive computer I've ever bought and I'd wager it's even
harder for the average user to service than the new MacBook Pro!

~~~
chii
But when the tire wears out, you don't have to go to a special service ship
just to get a better set of treads!

This mac book lockdown is akin to them locking out the tires of a car, so that
the average person cant change it themselves, even tho theres no reason to do
so other than as an anti-competitive measure.

~~~
_pdeschen
To put the car analogy straigth I would compare changing the tires with
replacing the power adapter. I'm not interested in adding a turbo in my
outback like I'm not interested in adding more ram in my laptop.

Happy MBA convert after 15 years of Linux/pc.

------
gavinh
The Apple sycophants are out in force in these comments.

~~~
rsanchez1
The same people who support Apple's closed App Store over the more open
Android model because "most" users don't install software not in the App Store
anyway. Apple knows what's best for you.

------
GigabyteCoin
A laptop isn't meant to be a PC, it's meant to be small, so Apple is doing
their part in my eyes.

That being said... I recently replaced the HDD in my girlfriend's Macbook and
was pleasantly surprised as to how easy it was.

If it comes down to a tradoff between 20% larger size OR 100% inoperability if
any single part goes down... I think I would choose the larger laptop.

~~~
jaems33
I liked what they did before: have two options for people. The slightly bigger
option with customization (MacBook Pro, Mac Pro) and the streamlined clean
option for those who don't want to fiddle with anything (MacBook Air, iMac,
Mac Mini).

The thing I'm annoyed with is the inability to swap out RAM sticks. The recent
MacBook's usually allow for more RAM than Apple specifies. Theoretically, the
MacBook Pro Retina model should handle 32 GB (16gb x 2). However, because the
RAM is soldered, I won't be able to put that build together when those sticks
are available in a few years. Which is kind of ridiculous when considering how
much money ($3000+) is going into it.

~~~
mayonuki
You can still buy standard Macbook Pro's no? What's the issue with adding a
third option? Sorry it's not ideal for you.

~~~
sbalea
The issue is you cannot get a standard form factor MBP with retina display.

------
valuegram
I agree with this article. I was actually thinking about this earlier today
and amazed at all the backlash. There is a trade-off between form factor and
upgradeability. I suspect (and I'm sure they did their homework) that a large
percentage of apple's target demographic favors a sleaker design. This has
certainly been the case with ipods, iphones, ipads, etc.

------
gte910h
Who says next years will also be hard to take apart? They made the thing
really freaking small, squeezing out every little inch. Lets see if it stays
that way.

------
gcb
Conclusion is over the better dumb, sorry.

Remember the story about tire companies buying trolley routes, running them
out of schedule, people opting for other means of transportation because
trolleys were never on time, than municipalits moving to buses because "nobody
takes the trolleys anymore"?

It's the same.

Nobody upgrades their laptops because they are not made to be upgradable. Ram
and hd? Hahaha. That's to easy seller prices not long term upgrade.

Heck, even the keyboard is already an addon on all models, yet there's no
offer of key sizes or layouts.

CPUs could be socket instead of soldered, adding what? 1mm at most? Never been
done.

~~~
tomflack
> CPUs could be socket instead of soldered, adding what? 1mm at most? Never
> been done.

My Toshiba Satellite in 1999 had a socketed AMD K6-II 380Mhz cpu, which I
upgraded 10 years later as a "I wonder if...?" exercise before junking the
computer.

------
anaheim
Oh cracking, missed the point completely and is first page on hacker news? My
trousers could write more insightful articles.

Point: If you _can_ squeeze a couple more years of service out of an
upgradable laptop by maxing out the RAM, you should probably do so since the
alternative is, basically throwing it away as landfill (note that the iFixit
article said that claims about the body being recyclable were basically
bunkum.)

So basically, every time you "never upgraded a laptop anyways, and that's OK",
God kills an environmentally friendly kitten. Or something like that.

~~~
stcredzero
_Point: If you can squeeze a couple more years of service out of an upgradable
laptop by maxing out the RAM, you should probably do so since the alternative
is, basically throwing it away as landfill (note that the iFixit article said
that claims about the body being recyclable were basically bunkum.)_

Sorry, but even this strikes me as dangerously close to FUD. A generic
recycler couldn't be bothered to separate the screen glass from the lid, but I
doubt there's any reason why Apple couldn't figure out a recycling strategy
that would work. (And they basically provide the FedEx fee for you to send it
back to them.)

~~~
anaheim
I was quoting from the iFixit article

"The design may well be comprised of “highly recyclable aluminum and glass” —
but my friends in the electronics recycling industry tell me they have _no way
of recycling aluminum that has glass glued to it like Apple did with both this
machine and the recent iPad._ "

I took this to mean that recycling was essentially impossible (by Apple or
anyone else). Perhaps Apple can indeed figure out a recycling strategy. I
doubt they will spend any time on it unless prompted by adverse publicity
(like this article is generating).

~~~
stcredzero
_but my friends in the electronics recycling industry tell me they have no way
of recycling aluminum that has glass glued to it like Apple did with both this
machine and the recent iPad._

 _I took this to mean that recycling was essentially impossible (by Apple or
anyone else)._

Well, as you basically admit below, the economics and motivations of most
recyclers are _not_ going to be the same as Apple. In any case, this doesn't
mean that they won't take any aluminum that has ever had glass glued to it. It
just means that they won't take something with the glass _still_ glued to it.

I'll bet you $1000 that I could get the screen glass off of a Retina Macbook
Pro with a hammer and an angle grinder or another common shop tool. (You
supply the Macbook.) Most anything I can do inconveniently and dangerously at
a hackerspace with an ordinary shop tool could be done with greater safety and
lower unit cost with an appropriate custom tool.

 _Perhaps Apple can indeed figure out a recycling strategy. I doubt they will
spend any time on it unless prompted by adverse publicity (like this article
is generating)._

So you don't know, and neither does your source. All you have is supposition,
for which you leave yourself an out.

