
Cheap smartphones are about to change everything - x43b
http://www.wired.com/2014/05/cheap-smartphones
======
sbierwagen

      And then there’s dual SIM (or even quad SIM). It’s a feature 
      that’s really popular in Asia and Latin America where people 
      might use one network for a local call and another for an 
      international one. That’s largely something MediaTek drove, 
      but now it’s in the Moto E, which also has a feature called 
      SmartCalling to help people set up and swap between SIM 
      preferences and automatically configure access point names. 
    

[https://bbot.org/blog/archives/2013/10/28/programmatically_a...](https://bbot.org/blog/archives/2013/10/28/programmatically_advertising_mobile_bandwidth_cost_a_proposal/)

    
    
      You know what would be cool? If your phone knew how much 
      bandwidth from each carrier cost, and could switch between 
      them on the fly, depending on which one was cheapest, like a 
      multi-SIM phone that didn't suck.

~~~
netcan
Dual SIM is such a cool feature and so common in asia that not having it in
Western markets almost seems like a conspiracy.

Work/private phone. Burner. Try out a new network. Add a local SIM when
traveling.

~~~
icebraining
Not having it on Western markets? Are you sure you're not confusing US with
Western? Here in our very western European country they're common and often
advertised. Both my previous phone (crappy Samsung) as well as my current
cheap Android were dual sim.

~~~
adrenalinup
What country in western Europe ? Never heard about anyone talking about a
dual-sim telephones in France. But there is not much point of having two
subscription to two companies that prices are aligned.

~~~
icebraining
Portugal. The reason I have one is because I have a company-issued SIM card,
besides my personal one. But here prices are not actually aligned, since some
providers have free, unlimited calls between members of the same plan, but not
between members of different providers.

------
enscr
Often, the word 'cheap' carries a negative connotation. Talking specifically
about Moto G & Moto E, I'd say they are phones that are priced correctly.
Before we start talking about lack of features or compromises, just look at
how much they charge for incremental memory. Just $20 for 8GB extra.
Smartphones makers are slowly accepting commodity pricing and I hope they
realize that skinning Android isn't always a value add.

Cool new features like fingerprint reader sure catch the fancy of those
waiting to upgrade their phone. But expecting to price the phone at more than
twice what they are worth when you add an evolutionary feature may not work
for too long. The difference in build quality between Android & iOS phones is
way smaller than Windows & Mac laptops.

~~~
ghshephard
"But expecting to price the phone at more than twice what they are worth "

Apple has a gross margin of 39%, which is pretty good, but presuming the
minimum gross margin an electronics manufacturer requires for a sustainable
business is 20% - It's the difference between charging $560 for a $400 BOM vs
$480.

Even if you don't value Apple's Operating System, Ecosystem of Developers,
content, support, quality, design - let's say that all has absolutely zero
value - Apple is still charging about 16% more than what their phones are
"worth."

Where Apple really cleans up is in the 32/64 GB iPhones - They really take
their customers to the cleaners for the extra 16/48 GB of flash ($100 and $200
respectively)

~~~
enscr
They are making money from the ecosystem of developers & content separately.
Why should it be counted in the price of the phone? Secondly, I didn't
discount the quality/design from the phone price.

Apple doesn't just overcharge for additional flash, they overcharge at every
possible item in your phone. Example : $30 cables/connectors/chargers. On top
of that, they sell you last years model at a premium too. Up until a few
months, they were selling iPad 2 at some ridiculous price. The BOM cost goes
down significantly with new rev of components coming out, be it the camera
module, the previous generation app processor, the foundry charges, the low
res LCD,...

~~~
Turing_Machine
"Example : $30 cables/connectors/chargers."

When it comes to chargers, you really do get what you pay for. See:
[http://www.righto.com/2012/10/a-dozen-usb-chargers-in-lab-
ap...](http://www.righto.com/2012/10/a-dozen-usb-chargers-in-lab-apple-
is.html)

Note that the HP Touchpad charger is rated slightly higher than Apple's
charger, but it's not cheap either. Right now Amazon lists the HP charger for
$17.99 and the Apple 12w iPad charger for $19.00. Not much difference in
price.

The $2.00 chargers are gambling with your device (and maybe even your life).

~~~
enscr
I knew someone was going to post that link. There's no price justification in
that link other than saying $2 chargers are bad & so are $19 ones. So, does
that mean $30 is the price point. Ofcourse not.

You are missing the point. I'm not saying $2 chargers are the right price. I'm
saying, Apple overprices everything, include headphone cables, phone cases and
what not. Their retail price is BOM + Retail_Markup + R&D + Apple_Markup. That
last component is what I'm talking about.

~~~
Turing_Machine
I provided evidence.

You provided none other than your opinion.

Kindly provide a link to a charger of comparable quality to Apple's that costs
significantly less than the $19 you can buy one for on Amazon.

~~~
enscr
The link that you posted is an excellent comparison BUT no evidence that "$30"
is the right price point for a good charger. The iPhone charger has poor
rating on current sag. The ipad charger has poor rating on voltage sag.

~~~
hatbert
Actually, the Apple chargers in that link displayed the expected behavior for
the USB 2.0 "extended power" (can't think of the actual title) specification.
The author has a fancy oscilloscope, but that doesn't mean he/she knows
everything.

------
ChuckMcM
I really like the Moto-G, and the Moto E looks like a solid phone as well. I'm
interested to watch what it does to the App market, that much more volume and
even a small fraction of a huge market, is a worthwhile thing.

The other thing I'm wondering about is Apple's response, if any.

~~~
ido
As an app developer I can tell you that the problem is that these people don't
spend money (on software). So even though there are now many more android
users than iOS ones (world wide) it's still not a very lucrative market.

~~~
netcan
I wonder what percentage of app developers are really that sensitive to app
_sales_. Ad-supported and underpants gnome supported seem to be bigger
categories.

Users directly paying for mobile apps is like users directly paying for web
apps, a smallish part of the overall game.

IMO, the bones of the business case (beyond the sheer number of these devices)
is here:

“ _for a vast number of people in a vast number of countries, the cheap
handset will be the first screen, and the only screen._ ”

If you want to show these people what movies are playing, sell them flights,
let them share videos, shop online, etc. Targeting these “low end” machines is
the way to do it.

App sales are a small part of the overall picture.

~~~
icpmacdo
> underpants gnome supported

What does this mean?

~~~
omni
I'm guessing this means apps from companies without any business model at all
that are propped up entirely by VCs.

~~~
netcan
I meant all companies for which the relationship between making software and
making money is complicated.

------
userbinator
_Both are based on a platform from MediaTek, a Taiwanese giant you 've never
heard of. It makes white label handsets that operators can customize for local
markets._

Technically this isn't the case; MTK don't make handsets themselves, they're
fabless and only provide reference designs based on their chipsets. It's the
innumerable Chinese OEMs that use these reference designs to make handsets.
(See
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaTek#.282013-present.29](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaTek#.282013-present.29)
for a non-exhaustive list of smartphones that contain them.) Because it's a
reference design, most of them have very similar features, since OEMs don't
have to expend much effort to add features themselves. In fact I'd say it's
unusual to _not_ have e.g. dual-SIM, expandable storage, FM radio, or
removable battery in a MTK smartphone; they're pretty much standard. The
variation between models is mostly in ROM/RAM, camera and screen sizes, and
case styling (there are models with small screens but the fastest SoC, for
example.) Also, the MT6589 platform does _not_ have 4G, it's 3G.

MTK is certainly relatively unknown in North America but in Asia the situation
is very different - you'll find far more mention and phones using them,
hardware-level repair/modding information is common, and they also cost
significantly less than the flagships from Samsung, LG, and the other big
companies.

Edit: looks like Wired covered this a year ago:
[http://www.wired.com/2013/02/mediatek/](http://www.wired.com/2013/02/mediatek/)

(I bought a generic 5" MT6589 smartphone in China and have been quite
satisfied with it.)

~~~
kalleboo
> Also, the MT6589 platform does not have 4G, it's 3G.

The confusion probably comes from the fact that US carriers were branding
HSDPA as "4G" to fool the US public that they were keeping up with the rest of
the world.

~~~
briandh
If by that you mean T-Mobile, sure.

The US has actually been on the leading edge of LTE deployment. Compare the
map [1] to [2]. Then take a look back at 2012 to see how far along the US was
even in 2012 (relatively far) [3] [4]. Then check out a more recent look (less
than a year ago) [5].

And that's not counting WiMax, for whatever it's worth.

[1] [http://lazure2.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/gsa-map-
worldwide...](http://lazure2.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/gsa-map-worldwide-
lte-network-commitments-launches-and-trials-6-july-2011.jpg) [2]
[http://www.4g.de/wp-
content/uploads/2014/02/GSA_LTE_MAP.jpg](http://www.4g.de/wp-
content/uploads/2014/02/GSA_LTE_MAP.jpg) [3]
[http://www.fiercewireless.com/tech/special-reports/lte-
cover...](http://www.fiercewireless.com/tech/special-reports/lte-coverage-
targets-and-subscriber-numbers) [4]
[http://www.networkworld.com/news/2012/111512-lte-4g-264316.h...](http://www.networkworld.com/news/2012/111512-lte-4g-264316.html)
("The U.S. is one of the fastest-growing 4G markets in the world, thanks to
aggressive LTE deployments by Verizon Wireless and AT&T Wireless") [5]
[http://gigaom.com/2013/09/20/mapping-out-the-worlds-lte-
cove...](http://gigaom.com/2013/09/20/mapping-out-the-worlds-lte-coverage-its-
in-fewer-places-than-you-think/)

~~~
kalleboo
> If by that you mean T-Mobile, sure.

[http://tasel.wordpress.com/2012/03/13/lte-hsdpa-dc-hsdpa-
exp...](http://tasel.wordpress.com/2012/03/13/lte-hsdpa-dc-hsdpa-explain-this-
alphbet-soup-of-4g-to-me/)

> after Verizon and Sprint started using setting up their LTE networks and
> touting speeds of up to 14.4, AT&T started to sat that their HSPA+ networks
> also “4G”

They even got Apple to make the iPhone show 4G in the status bar when you were
on HSDPA.

------
DiabloD3
Problem is, too many cheap phones are still shipping with Android 2.3 because
the manufacturers just don't care.

Android 4.4 is a boon to cheap phone manufacturers because of low memory mode
while retaining all the modern features. A $99 phone that isn't shit that runs
Android 4.4 and has BLE would enable so much stuff that the rest of us take
for granted.

~~~
radley
2.3 stopped months ago. 4.0 is the current min (more like 4.2).

~~~
ctz
Entry-level Android phones running 2.3 are sadly still common:

[http://www.carphonewarehouse.com/phone/samsung/samsung-
galax...](http://www.carphonewarehouse.com/phone/samsung/samsung-
galaxy-y/handset)

[http://www.carphonewarehouse.com/phone/samsung/samsung-
galax...](http://www.carphonewarehouse.com/phone/samsung/samsung-galaxy-
ace/handset)

[http://www.carphonewarehouse.com/phone/samsung/samsung-
galax...](http://www.carphonewarehouse.com/phone/samsung/samsung-galaxy-ace-2)

[http://www.tesco.com/direct/virgin-media-alcatel-one-
touch-t...](http://www.tesco.com/direct/virgin-media-alcatel-one-touch-tpop-
black/619-7823.prd)

[http://www.tesco.com/direct/t-mobile-samsung-galaxy-
pocket-n...](http://www.tesco.com/direct/t-mobile-samsung-galaxy-pocket-neo-
grey/290-7235.prd)

The Galaxy Ace range is pretty popular here, too.

There are also a slew of super-cheap chinese phones which come with 2.3 --
check out aliexpress.

~~~
radley
The first 3 Samsung phones you list were all released 2-3 years ago. The last
2 were both released over a year ago (Jan / Apr 2013).

They're not new models being release with the old OS.

------
buzzybee
My last phone was my first smartphone. It cost $80 and ran Android 4.0 very
poorly with pauses and crashes.

My current one runs Android 4.1 and cost $60. It runs smoothly enough that I
have no pressing reason to upgrade in the near future; but when I do I expect
to get even more for less.

These are both Virgin Mobile pre-paid phones.

------
awjr
I have a Nexus 4 and my next phone is also probably going to be an Android
phone but my shopping list now comes down to how well it takes a photo (N4 is
horrible) and if it gets reasonable OS updates.

I can now get this for around £100.

------
Synaesthesia
Cheap phones really are capable these days. I just got a 2nd hand Lumia 520
for ZAR1000 (about $100) and it can do everything my much more expensive
iPhone 5 can. It's good enough to be my primary phone which is pretty amazing.
Even has wifi internet tethering. Windows Phone 8.1 is a solid OS. The Lumia
630 with dual sim looks very appealing to me as soon as it's available.

~~~
theintern
Off topic, but I see you're in SA, I'll be living there for a year or two
soon, I'd be really interested to get your perspective on the state of the
technological landscape over there, things like ISPs, getting new electronics,
tech jobs etc.

~~~
hgh
ZAR caught my attention as well. I'm an expat in SA, based in Cape Town. Feel
free to get in touch - hans@zoona.co.za

------
qwerta
Phone for $130 is not cheap. Perhaps the title should be "The dusk of
expensive smartphones".

~~~
enscr
I agree with what you are implying, maybe it just came across as negative to
whoever downvoted this. For devices that you upgrade every year or two, $130
(free with subsidy) is a good price. It feels cheap because Apple etc. have
set the bar too high (on pricing).

------
webwanderings
Cheap or expensive, it is one-time cost. The recurring cost of cellphones are
ridiculously expensive.

------
zem
the wired article gets one thing absolutely right - the excitement has gone
out of the high-end smartphone market, but is palpably there in this one.
ubiquitous cheap devices spreading everywhere and getting smarter and smarter
is a lot closer to the world envisioned by gibson, sterling et al - the high
end of the market has become more like a shopping mall than a cyberpunk
bazaar.

------
caligarn
"About to change everything" \- this title is a few years too late.

------
cognivore
We need to stop calling them "smartphones" and call them what they really are
- "personal computers." The previous personal computer is now a "work
computer."

A smartphone's phone capability is now a small facet of its growing
capabilities.

~~~
DanBC
Most smartphones are much more restricted than personal computers are.

------
chaired
I had to write code for Androids, and so I 'used' them quite a bit while
testing. To this day, every time I have to use an Android phone, I want to
claw my eyes out, mainly over the lousy touch response, and somewhat-stupider
UI. I fully understand they're still good iPhone knock-offs and more than
adequate for many. But as someone who now uses my phone as my primary computer
(and for me iOS is now only just barely adequate for this), I honestly don't
know how y'all do it.

~~~
briandh
To give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not merely trolling:
what handset(s) did you use?

------
leorocky
Cheap smartphones are going to change "everything?" HN still has a wired.com
problem. I flag pretty much every single wired.com article that pops up past
the new page. I really think wired.com is gaming the system they pop up so
often.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
That sounds like you are abusing flag. Most Wired articles are written well
enough, even if written for a more general audience.

