
Why are left-handers called “southpaws”? (2015) - js2
http://www.history.com/news/ask-history/why-are-left-handers-called-southpaws
======
hluska
The article on wordorigins.org contains more information, including this
quote:

 _Use of southpaw to mean the left hand goes back all the way to 1813, long
before baseball, as we know it today, existed. It’s used in a letter appearing
in the Philadelphia newspaper The Tickler on 30 June of that year:

“Luk here mon, and convince yourself,” said he, holding up the Tickler, in the
right paw, between the ceiling and the floor, and with the south paw pointing
to the “bow, vow, vow.”_

(Source -
[http://www.wordorigins.org/index.php/site/comments/southpaw/](http://www.wordorigins.org/index.php/site/comments/southpaw/))

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nematode
The article just kicks the can down the road: why is the left hand called the
'south paw' in boxing?

~~~
derekp7
If I had to guess -- in a normal defensive stance, where both hands are held
out in front, the right hand is typically higher and slightly in front of the
left hand. Top being north, bottom is south.

~~~
treyfitty
For a lefty, you're correct. But for a righty, then the right hand would be
south. So, that can't possibly be the reason why boxers call lefties
'Southpaws'

~~~
akaru
The parent comment makes perfect sense to me: a left-handed person would have
their left hand south. So their main hand is the south paw.

~~~
skepticaldrunk
Your parent comment points out that for a right-handed person, their right
hand would be south. The same is true for either handedness, thus does little
to differentiate the two.

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danans
On the subject of direction word trivia, the Sanskrit word for right, a
cognate of Latin "dexter", is "dakshina." In this case, however, it eventually
came to mean "south".

Why? It makes sense when you realize that the the word for ahead/in-front
"purva" came to mean east, the word for back/behind "paschima" came to mean
west, and the common word for north "uttara" can mean left. So the words imply
an eastward-facing world orientation, which itself probably has its origin in
worship of the rising sun.

~~~
balsam
Also:

    
    
         purva -> "first"
    
         uttara -> "second"
    
    

A anti-clockwise orientation..

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kazinator
Possibly related: why does "going south" mean degrading, spoiling, breaking
down ...

The "paws" in "southpaws" clarifies that it is a derogatory term, suggesting
that the left-handed are clumsy.

Could it be that the sense of south in "going south" is a back formation from
southpaw?

Etymonline documents "going south" as meaning "vanish, abscond", tracing it to
1920's America: _" American English, probably from mid-19c. notion of
disappearing south to Mexico or Texas to escape pursuit or responsibility,
reinforced by Native American belief (attested in colonial writing mid-18c.)
that the soul journeys south after death."_ It could be that the "turn bad"
meaning derives from that.

~~~
stevekemp
Remember that sinister is the Latin word for left-handed..

Historically, the left side, and subsequently left-handedness, was considered
negative in many cultures. The Latin word sinistra originally meant "left" but
took on meanings of "evil" or "unlucky" by the Classical Latin era, and this
double meaning survives in European derivatives of Latin, and in the English
word "sinister".

Meanings gradually developed from use of these terms in the ancient languages.
In many modern European languages, including English, the word for the
direction "right" also means "correct" or "proper", and also stands for
authority and justice. In most Slavic languages the root prav is used in words
carrying meanings of correctness or justice.

Wikipedia also has a fun article here:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias_against_left-
handed_peopl...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias_against_left-
handed_people)

~~~
nickpeterson
Because most people are right handed, there is a notion of it being 'natural'
to use their right hand. This is probably where we get the overlap with words
that mean 'correct'. Doing something left-handed, for most people, is doing it
backwards.

People are rarely left-handed, so there is an 'us verses them' notion behind
the term. Right handed people are the default and left-handed people are
different. Note phrases like "right hand man" describing someone you rely on.

Finally, a large percentage of leaders seem to be left handed (for reasons I
cannot fathom), so perhaps sinister meaning evil has some root in people's
criticism of those with power?

~~~
kls
Theory goes, left-handers have an advantage in battle (everyone has fought and
trained against a right hander). Those that won, and had good political skills
got to rule (and remain ruling) and reproduce, so it was self selecting for
leadership. What is odd about that theory is our almost static percentage of
the population thru the ages.

~~~
hghhhggv
> What is odd about that theory is our almost static percentage of the
> population thru the ages.

> odd

That simply means the theory is wrong, not "odd".

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pavement

      The earliest baseball mention of a “southpaw” - as 
      found by Tom Shieber, senior curator at the National 
      Baseball Hall of Fame—appeared in the New York Atlas 
      in 1858, but in reference to a left-handed first 
      baseman, not a pitcher.
    

The first documented use of a phrase or term in print, does not mean that the
writer used it according to the original intended context, especially since it
does not specifically get used in a passage that explicitly states the
intended use and origin.

The atlas doesn't explicitly state: "We decided to call him a southpaw,
because we're inventing this new term, and not because of convention, and it
means 1, 2 and 3, because x, y and z."

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pflats
Etymological research is rarely cut-and-dry. The authors are aware of this,
and the quotation is being held as a counterexample to "the conventional
wisdom that the word “southpaw” originated “from the practice in baseball of
arranging the diamond with the batter facing east to avoid the afternoon sun.
A left-handed pitcher facing west would therefore have his pitching arm toward
the south of the diamond.”"

The article goes on to point out that southpaw was almost definitely a boxing
term before it was given its baseball "etymology".

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sremani
Rocky movie has an explanation about Southpaw, may be it is here say or not,
but it does.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jK4lxjvrhHs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jK4lxjvrhHs)

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nathan_f77
This post must be related to the recent "How do you draw a circle?" [1]
article. They used the term "southpaw", which I had never heard before.

EDIT: Strange, I definitely read the word "southpaw" somewhere in the last few
days, and I remember learning that it was a term for left-handed people. Now I
can't find it anywhere in the circle article, the HN comments [2], or the
Reddit thread [3].

Little things like this really make me want to sign up for fetching.io again.

EDIT 2: Ahh, I found it! It was in a Quartz Daily Brief [4] news summary that
I had skimmed earlier today:

> Left-handed people are more likely to be geniuses. The trait indicates
> greater connectivity between brain hemispheres, which may explain why
> southpaws seem to have an edge at math. ([5])

js2, I'd be really interested to know if that's why you posted this, or if it
was just a coincidence.

[1] [https://qz.com/994486/the-way-you-draw-circles-says-a-lot-
ab...](https://qz.com/994486/the-way-you-draw-circles-says-a-lot-about-you/)

[2]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14579728](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14579728)

[3]
[https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/6i5pa0/how...](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/6i5pa0/how_cultures_around_the_world_draw_shapes/)

[4] [https://qz.com/daily-brief/](https://qz.com/daily-brief/)

[5] [https://qz.com/1006075/left-handed-people-are-more-likely-
to...](https://qz.com/1006075/left-handed-people-are-more-likely-to-be-
geniuses-in-math/)

~~~
js2
None of the above. :-)

My daughter was doing geometry homework that had a question about the
direction of a baseball field and claimed they are often oriented so that the
batter faces east.

I wanted to verify the assertion, and Google led me to this article. I was
familiar with "southpaw" but always thought it was a boxing term and didn't
know its etymology.

~~~
nathan_f77
Haha, that's great. Just the Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon for me, then.

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notadoc
I have never heard that term before

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paulddraper
Do you watch baseball? Because I would be surprised if you hadn't heard it
there.

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galago
Different parts of the UK had different names for left-handed people. It
predates baseball or rounders. I can't remember which, but one region used the
term 'southpaw'.

I've seen a map explaining this but I can't find it at the moment. Its a weird
feeling when I completely can't find something via Google, even though I've
seen it online.

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AdmiralAsshat
Well, southpaw doesn't have a pejorative connotation, so I guess it beats
being called "sinister".

~~~
kls
sinistra, in Latin proper, simply meant left. It was later that someone
decided that left = evil and sinister, well became sinister, but the
historical root simply means left and is the original archaic definition of
sinister.

Personally I am more concerned by our higher than average death rate than I am
worried about being touched by the devil.

~~~
dudul
A quick Google research will return a few articles explaining how the studies
that started this myth about higher death rate in the 80s and 90s were flawed.

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kls
Good to know, it's been some time since I read about left handed deaths and
only recall the articles being all the buzz back then.

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dudul
I had never heard of this higher death rate thing, and being a lefty myself I
was curious after your comment :)

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rdiddly
I'm glad this expression won out, instead of the briefly popular but terribly
clumsy "antipodean-gripper." /bs

~~~
js2
And for footedness, a lefty is "goofy foot" in board sports.

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pacaro
Except that "regular" is left foot leading and "goofy" is right foot leading.

In my experience learning to ride "switch" is only a matter of practice, and
not much at that.

Anyone who juggles, or plays keepy-up (aka foot juggling) knows the importance
of practicing evenly on both sides

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wyldfire
My dad had always told the story regarding the orientation of the stadium.
Interesting to learn that it may not be the case.

