
Democracy at 4 AM: What unprecedented protest means for Taiwan - dryman
http://4am.tw
======
dryman
I'm an software engineer from Taiwan. Taiwan is one of the countries in east
asia that has democracy, and we're super proud of it. However, the current
government tried to pass some laws that has deep impact to our economy
secretly. They tried to pass the law in congress restroom, and passed it in
JUST 30 SECONDS.

This is something that Taiwan people can't stand for. We need to fight for our
democracy procedure. A law like this cannot be treated this way. The students
in taiwan occupied the congress hall (Legislative Yuan). Following up we have
so many volunteer from all professions joined us. The doctors started to help
people who were injured; the lawyers defended for people who were caught by
police; hackers who like you and me helped the wifi and real time streaming to
be stable and robust, and also built this website for more visibility from the
world.

It's 4am at Taiwan. WE NEED YOUR ATTENTION. WE NEED YOU to spread what
happened in taiwan to the world. Take a look on those photos and videos. It's
dark in Taiwan, but we believe the dawn will come.

~~~
dryman
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIAe3DREUhI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIAe3DREUhI)
[http://instagram.com/p/l-Duu5By7B/](http://instagram.com/p/l-Duu5By7B/)

Some recorded video of how police beat people

~~~
kbar13
that's a pretty standard riot control tactic, executed quite well. I don't
agree with the beating tho :(

------
scotttsai
The protesters are made up of three overlapping groups:

1\. Those who resent the way the ruling party reneged on its promise of
legislative review and forced a this trade services pact with China through.

2\. Those who have economic concerns, e.g. they worry that Taiwanese small and
medium sized businesses would be acquired by Chinese capital thus massively
raising the barrier to entry in some industries. Another worry is that Taiwan
may face a massive brain drain to China.

3\. Those who have national security concerns because the trade services pact
opens for e.g. some parts of the telecommunications and publishing industries.
China claims Taiwan as a renegade province and has said it'd use force to
unify the motherland if necessary.

So far this is still a Taiwanese domestic issue though with the U.S. and China
watching closely. One WSJ report goes[1]:

"U.S. officials might consider all this as they prepare to resume bilateral
trade talks with Taiwan next week. Advancing bilateral trade—and encouraging
eventual Taiwanese accession to the Trans-Pacific Partnership—would help quiet
nerves on all sides of Taiwanese politics. The U.S. has largely ignored Taiwan
in recent years, but Taipei's current crisis highlights the extent to which
trouble still lurks in that corner of Asia."

[1]:[http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405270230441840...](http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304418404579464670045528380)

~~~
briantakita
I would be scared of annexation if I were a Taiwanese citizen. Heavy-handed
states (including China) have not been kind to dissenters.

~~~
dhughes
Taiwan may get "Putin-ed", step 1 cause citizen outrage, step 2 citizens
revolt against their corrupt government step 3 China moves in to help
stabilize the country without a government.

~~~
guard-of-terra
There is another scenario: 1 cause citizen outrage, step 2 government
successfully ignores outrage/beats protesters/tells lies to general public
step 3 you're Putin-ed still.

------
dryman
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV8JDbtXZm4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV8JDbtXZm4)

We video taped and written a song for the occupation. Even compare to other
protest in countries, we are so proud our people in protest is peaceful and
well organized. People who have profession (like doctors, hackers, lawyers)
setup stations to help people. Other volunteers got organized and pick up
trash and send out food.

Still, we are terrified. The government sent out police to beat up people who
don't have weapons. Even though we have videos to prove it, the government is
still denying it.

This is the worst moment for us, but also the best. We see hope from people,
and we're looking for your help.

~~~
spiritplumber
Keep posting video. They can't deny it if it's all over youtube. Also, post
links to video on newspapers sites if they have a comment section

------
scotttsai
Background: On March 17, the ruling political party in Taiwan passed a wide
ranging services trade pact[1] with China through extraordinary legislative
maneuvers. On March 18, a few hundred protesters, mostly college aged, stormed
and successfully occupied the legislature. Once the news got out, a larger
crowd of tens of thousands surrounded the legislature building.

[1]: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-
Strait_Service_Trade_Agre...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-
Strait_Service_Trade_Agreement)

------
natch
The web site does not do a good job of explaining what their concerns are with
the agreement.

But the pie chart shown (setting aside sample bias...) is stunning: it says
that only 1.6% of people asked said they support the agreement.

This in a country where people believe in democracy as a strong part of their
national identity, and as the main thing that makes them different from
mainland China.

~~~
dryman
Thanks for advice. We have a lot discussions of the agreement, but written in
Chinese. We'll translate those to English and expose the context to the world.

------
scotttsai
Another "colorful" part is that there have been gangsters showing up at the
protest site, threatening the largely college aged protesters. This coincides
with the return to Taiwan of a mob boss with close Chinese ties:

[http://thediplomat.com/2014/02/the-return-of-gangster-
politi...](http://thediplomat.com/2014/02/the-return-of-gangster-politics-in-
taiwan/)

He's been spotted at the scene (the last photo):
[http://www.appledaily.com.tw/realtimenews/article/new/201403...](http://www.appledaily.com.tw/realtimenews/article/new/20140319/363147/)

------
teawithcarl
Democracy in Taiwan is crucial.

The President of Taiwan is nicknamed President 9% (his approval rating). 70%
of Taiwan people favor the students, which is why they have had difficulty
removing them from the Congress (Yuan).

A huge protest is planned tomorrow, March 30th.

Here's some Twitter hashtags to follow events:

#Taiwan

#TaiwanOccupy (they are occupying the congress)

#反服贸

------
cilea
The trade agreement between China and Taiwan that's currently on the table
contains two parts, one concerns publishing and the other has to do with ISP.
Taiwanese in general, like to preserve their own identity, culture, language,
etc. The agreement MAY alter the market dynamics, for example, squeezing out
Taiwan's native publishers. The biggest concern is the control of digital
information. No need to explain on this. Overall, Taiwanese are just afraid of
what-ifs. Personally, I'm OK with publishing but not the digital information
pact.

------
swem
Within a few hours, there will be a protest event in Taipei. Accroding to the
facebook event page, more than 60000 people have signed up to join the event.
We believe more people would standing out on Sunday to ask government to
legislate supervision regulations on Cross-Strait Trade. We advocate
transparency of the trade agreement including review, signing and execute
process.
[https://www.facebook.com/events/1471107093105919/](https://www.facebook.com/events/1471107093105919/)

------
scotttsai
I've been to the protest. One good reporting source is
[https://twitter.com/JMichaelCole1](https://twitter.com/JMichaelCole1)

------
sansword
I'm a website developer from Taiwan. There'll be a protest movement 9 hours
later.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV8JDbtXZm4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV8JDbtXZm4)
This song is made during these days, might explain what happened these days.

------
neilni
More links to the news:

Taiwanese Occupy Legislature Over China Pact, The Diplomat
[http://thediplomat.com/2014/03/taiwanese-occupy-
legislature-...](http://thediplomat.com/2014/03/taiwanese-occupy-legislature-
over-china-pact/)

Taiwan Stands Behind Use of Force Against Protesters, New York Times
[http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/25/world/asia/taiwan-
defends-...](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/25/world/asia/taiwan-defends-use-
of-force-against-protesters.html?_r=0)

------
hhyang
Have you ever noticed this is the brightest moment of Taiwan's Internet
community? It surely is, and it's ongoing.

------
MinwayHsu
Taiwan's democracy is being threaten by China.

Please help us and share.

We really need international attention.

~~~
Gigablah
Threatened by China, or your own politicians?

~~~
jeffrey8chang
Most politicians in Taiwan are either threaten or bribed by China. The ruling
party is heavily corrupted, and large enterprise highly influenced, by the
huge economic power of China, while most average citizens are worried, but
powerless of the situation. This is why the majority of Taiwanese sympathize
with the students' action of Occupying the Congress.

------
cicloid
Someone care to explain the geopolitical situation?

~~~
dryman
Taiwan is a small country next to China. Although people on both side speak
the same language, the culture and government system is different. China,
officially the People's Republic of China, is a sovereign state. Taiwan,
however, is democratic. The Taiwan government originally based on mainland
China, but was defeated by People's Republic of China, and moved to Taiwan.

Officially, Taiwan and China is in war. We never signed up armistice
agreement. Taiwan politicians can be separated into two groups. One believe if
we stay close to China, we can have better economics. A few of them even want
to unite with China. The other group believe we should stay as a country of
our own, and China government hates it.

With those background information you can see, making a economic agreement
with china is sensitive to people, but the current government tried to pass it
without standard procedure in congress. This is why people are so angry about
this.

------
lgleason
I really hope this doesn't become another Ukraine. Obviously the context is
different but still.

------
noobermin
Anyone from Taiwan care to comment?(I'm sure someone from there frequents HN)

~~~
kirstenliu
[https://www.facebook.com/sunflowermovement?ref=stream](https://www.facebook.com/sunflowermovement?ref=stream)

Here have a lot of information translated into different languages. Hope it
might help you understand what's going on in this island. We really need
supports and international attentions :) Thank you!

