
Fact vs. Fiction: Truths from Inside the Shaolin Temple - jonnybgood
https://radiichina.com/fact-vs-fiction-truths-from-inside-the-shaolin-temple/
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david_shaw
_> I put years of effort into learning Shaolin kung fu and understanding its
culture, but no, I was definitely not waking up at 4:30 AM in the barracks
each morning for a jog up the mountain._

Really? The author learned Chinese, studied kung fu for years, then traveled
to China to train -- only to decide that getting up early was simply too much
effort?

I found this article informative (if someone erratic), but this part truly
baffled me. Still, it's very interesting that a fifth century temple is still
operating -- and making money! -- today.

~~~
dssu
Waking up early is just the beginning. There are also heavy chore
responsibilities, 10+ hr full day of training, frequent beatings.

And the physical disciplinary punishments are brutal.

Oh and you have to keep this up for 5-10 years. Very reasonable to see why
someone would not want to commit to this.

Many of the warrior monks were trained as very young children so they had not
much say in the situation and just had to deal with it.

~~~
hangonhn
The literal translation of "kung fu" means skill through effort. In fact in
some parts of China, the words "kung fu" is used to mean skill in general. To
say a practitioner of some art has "no kung fu" means he or she is lacking in
practice/skill. The more correct term for Chinese martial arts is "wu shu" \--
"military/martial" and "art".

This idea of skill through practice is one of those values that I am very
grateful for because it was sort of drilled into my head at an early age and
has been enormous beneficial to me throughout my life. It's become more
valuable now that I'm older and don't absorb new information as quickly or
easily.

~~~
kinleyd
Thanks. "Skill through effort" is wonderfully worded - a perfect value to pass
on to the young ones.

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projectramo
The myth of Shaolin temple just reminds me of how my values have changed.

As a kid, my dream come true would have been to have been locked away doing
nothing but martial arts training for years till I emerged a fighting machine
who could win any fight.

As I grew up, I realize what a total waste of time and life that would have
been. Far better to learn to read and write, or even dance (college I guess).
Those skills make me far happier. Yet, as a kid, it felt awful to have to go
to school rather than spend my time in Shao Lin.

~~~
tdb7893
Haha I had the opposite experience. Growing up I always liked math, science,
and programming but more and more I wish I could just spend all my time doing
martial arts.

~~~
dorchadas
Same. The older I get the more I wish I could just spend my time learning to
control my body and doing martial arts and such. It'd be so much more fun.

~~~
agumonkey
I still hold a bit of the childish passion in even at forty. I just like
moving a lot and doing things minimalistically (is that a term ?). Monk life
is neat IMO to an extent.

~~~
dorchadas
It's weird, as I'd absolutely love to live as a monk full time. The training,
the studying, everything about it. Like, if I ever reach financial
independence and don't get married/have kids...that's definitely what I'm
going to be aiming for.

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vinceguidry
Ancient Eastern traditional martial arts disciplines can be really amazing. I
used to take Merpati Putih, a form of Indonesian silat, from a couple of
brothers in Ogden, Utah, like 13 years ago. Within six months I was breaking
solid ceramic tiles and hard metal files with my bare hands. I gave up a
really solid MMA gym to go train with these guys.

The human body is capable of really amazing things, and schools like this have
been honing their pedagogy for thousands of years. If only Westerners weren't
so darn skeptical about everything, then we'd have way more of that sort of
thing over here.

~~~
mr_overalls
> schools like this have been honing their pedagogy for thousands of years

I think generally, evidence points to the contrary. It's amazing how quickly
specific martial arts lose their fighting ability when realistic
sparring/fighting is replaced with forms, meditation, light/no contact, etc.

See: 1993-1995 UFC competitions where traditional schools were destroyed by
wrestlers, judoka, and BJJ.

~~~
vinceguidry
Following Eric Lowe on Quora for a long enough time has taught me that "real-
world fighting effectiveness" is the biggest red herring there is when it
comes to martial arts. You either come out of physical violence alive or you
don't, and while training in empty-handed martial arts _might_ save your life,
training with a gun is the only _realistic_ self-defense training worth doing.
Except, you know, for confidence. And if it's confidence you're after,
breaking hard metal files with your bare hands is hard to beat on that front.

I really don't think hardly anybody in the developed world is ever going to
face a true combat situation where they can actually use their empty-hand
skills. It means they couldn't run away, lost their gun, and couldn't find a
improvised weapon. The actual military doesn't train it any more other than
for confidence. When you train MMA, you're really training for MMA
competitions, not for any kind of real-life combat situation, cuz MMA won't
help you there.

We did do bare-knuckle, few-rules sparring in Merpati Putih and it was legit
my favorite thing to do. We hit and got hit hard, but I didn't get near the
amount of sparring time I wanted. Even so, I'd have put my MP skills against
anybody else's in a typical bar fight. Not now of course, those days are long
long gone. My survival strategy these days is to de-escalate, and if that
doesn't work, submit, and if that doesn't work, go momma bear and hope I
survive.

~~~
Balero
"You either come out of physical violence alive or you don't, and while
training in empty-handed martial arts might save your life, training with a
gun is the only realistic self-defense training worth doing."

I disagree with this. It can certainly be true if you are in a situation where
guns are common (eg. Texas). But the majority of people are in a situation
where guns are not available. You should train with what you have available,
and for self defense, with what you are likely to have in a normal day.
Luckily for us where guns are not available, running away is the best option!

"When you train MMA, you're really training for MMA competitions, not for any
kind of real-life combat situation, cuz MMA won't help you there."

Whilst I don't 100% agree (I think training mma will help a bit), you bring up
a really good point. That there is a huge difference to learning to fight for
a competition, and learning to fight for self defense. And like you said, de-
escalation, and situational awareness, are the best course of action.

~~~
giardini
Balero says> _" Luckily for us where guns are not available, running away is
the best option!"_

Its usually the best option even where guns _are_ available (even in Texas).
Unless a shooter is an outstanding shot or very close, its hard to shoot a
running person.

A good rule for some is, if the distance from an active shooter is less than
20 feet and there is nothing between then attack, otherwise run away. FWIW I
always carry a knife.

See Tueller Drill:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill)

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forkLding
The Shaolin monk livestreaming reminds me of that time I saw Tibetan lamas
playing basketball on their basketball courts and I realized how close-minded
I was.

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abledon
If anyone’s interested there’s a fascinating YouTube video of a guy called
peng her demonstrating qigong, a Shaolin monk practice, by increasing activity
in his brain regions:
[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iHTvUdi5LwY](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iHTvUdi5LwY)

To dream of a day when a society of humans all have such capability!

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lenepp
"it also holds onto a significant amount of kung fu tradition"

There is a huge political controversy in the kung fu world that this article
doesn't address, which is the Chinese government's perceived hostility to the
idea of letting its citizens train to really fight, for pretty obvious
ideological reasons.

Essentially, the claim you will hear from some Chinese masters (often part of
the diaspora) is that while the Communists discovered that the veneration of
martial arts was too deeply engrained in the culture to eradicate, they could
transform people's idea of martial arts itself into something more like dance
or a gymnastic performance. They did this through the creation and control of
various wushu institutions and the transformation of the Shaolin Temple into a
training ground for a performance troupe (I said it's a controversial view).

In particular, according to this view, the ancient legends associated with the
Shaolin temple allowed the government to create something totally new, that
people would nonetheless perceive as part of an old "kung fu tradition."

There's only one really good, trustworthy book out there (that I know of) on
the Shaolin temple. It's called The Shaolin Monastery, and it's by a professor
of East Asian Studies named Meir Shahar. Definitely worth a read if you're
interested in learning more.

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zanethomas
After many years of training martial arts I visited Shao Lin a while back. It
struck me as being the Disneyland of Martial Arts. The needle-through glass
trick is just that, a carnival trick.

More serious training can be had at Wu Dang.

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lebowski_2020
Hugged to sleep...

Anyone have a mirror?

~~~
zackb
[https://web.archive.org/web/20181127073257/https://radiichin...](https://web.archive.org/web/20181127073257/https://radiichina.com/fact-
vs-fiction-truths-from-inside-the-shaolin-temple/)

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madeuptempacct
I would love to see accurate cancer, arthritis, and ligament injury rates for
shaolin monk. If they are lower than the general, fit population, they are on
to something.

~~~
abledon
Maybe some clever Chinese professor can Trojan horse a study in under the
guise Of Chinese nationalism with the objective to increase their nations
pride in the ancient arts devised by the monks thousands of years in the
making /end dream .

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muktaakash
Self discipline,training, meditation and concentration. All it needs to learn
in the monastery. It is not about to attack, fight and incapacitated someone
else at first;but believing in self control to withstand all assault,
violation and adversities till a point of justifiable limit with non violent
means, if not successful - invoking the skill and period.

~~~
aryamaan
Pardon if it sounds like a naive question. But when you are in a monastery--
which sounds like a controlled environment-- I get a feeling that you are not
interacting with all those grieves like rejections, loss of loved ones and
other mental conflicts, struggles one goes through in this materialistic life.

Albeit they include artificial such scenarios by having a very rigid
environment which is stressful and one has to learn to adapt to it.

So, practicing being calm there, I am not sure how that will translate to "the
real world". Would really like to know about stories of people who practiced
such things in their childhood or for a long period and how they are faring
post that.

