

Ask HN: How do you decide when to turn down a job? - j2bax

I work with a small agency and I'm in the middle of negotiating a project with a very large client. It's an amazing project and I feel incredibly privileged to get to do this kind of work. Unfortunately their budget is pretty unreasonable and they don't seem to be willing to sacrifice features to get the project even close to their budget.<p>If I turn it down, it will quite likely close down a channel of our business that we love and get to create really cool work for.<p>If I accept it, it will set a precedent for what our time and skills are worth.<p>I'm leaning heavily towards walking away at this point, but I just wanted to know if anyone here has had similar experience and what the outcome was for them.
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paulhauggis
"Unfortunately their budget is pretty unreasonable and they don't seem to be
willing to sacrifice features to get the project even close to their budget."

Run fast. I've worked with too many companies like this and this problem will
not end. No matter how much you try to rationalize or explain the situation,
they will not listen.

In the end, you will most likely get blamed for not making the insane
deadlines.

~~~
j2bax
Yes, I have dealt with the insane deadlines firsthand many times in the past
with this particular client.

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ebiester
There is always the "non-turndown turndown." Tell them to engage with someone
willing to do cutrate work, and come back when they aren't getting the results
they want.

Either another group will be able to meet an unreasonable request, or they
won't. Someone will try to overpromise, and when they underdeliver you will be
there.

~~~
j2bax
Yes, my thought is that the only people that would take this job for this
price would be a smaller company than us, and if they take it, they will
likely be crushed, or way under deliver.

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orangethirty
Here is what I do in those situations.

\- Break down into weekly sprints. Write down a weekly list of tasks that will
be done by a given day.

\- Put a price on each weekly sprint. Don't just break down the original price
in _n_ amount of weeks. No. Charge them what you would make in a week under
normal circumstances.

\- Take half of the payment up front. The other half when you are done. This
allows you to keep a good flow of cash while avoiding getting scammed.

\- Sell them on the fact that this is cheaper for them because _they can
always get stuff done in weekly sprints._ There is no long-term commitment for
either side.

If they don't play ball with this option, then fire them right on the spot.
Doing so will show them that you mean business. Seems right now they think
your team is weak and can be bullied.

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chrisbennet
If they are cheap/unrealistic now they will only get worse. I think you
already know that though don't you?

~~~
j2bax
Yeah... Sometimes its just challenging to turn down work as a smaller company
that wants cool projects. I can't justify devaluing our services that much.
Have you been in a situation where you had to turn down a project that you
really would have loved to do and was being handed to you?

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codegeek
"If I accept it, it will set a precedent for what our time and skills are
worth"

You said it. Knowing what you have told us so far, I would say No Deal. Once
you set a precedent, it is very hard to go back and tell the client "Hey I
took that shitty pay because I love the project. I have been with you for a
while now. Can you now give me what I am worth". Most likely, client will say
No.

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centdev
Running a web dev shop for over a decade, as longs as you break down why it
costs as much as it does then you are doing the right thing. If their budget
is lower than what you need to be happy, cover costs, etc than walk away. The
worse thing is working on a project knowing you got low balled. It affects
productivity and can create tension.

------
JohnHaugeland
My phrasing would go something like this.

"I really would like to do this project. This is an amazing opportunity for
me, and I feel incredibly privileged to be considered as a potential vendor.

"Unfortunately, I think we are at a fundamental disconnect regarding the
amount of work to be done. This budget does not cover the amount of time that
I believe I would need to spend to deliver a product to you at adequate
quality, on time, with this feature list.

"I would love to have this project. Turning it down may, indeed, close down a
channel of our business; we love this channel, and we get to do really cool
work as a result.

"The problem is that I'm looking at having a precedent set for the price of my
work which isn't actually something that I can survive; this budget would
force me to deliver something shoddy, which would damage my reputation and
possibly also yours.

"I think probably that you can find someone who's willing to do this work at
this price. Still, I want to caution you: there's always someone willing to do
work at basically any price; maybe they don't understand how much work it is,
or maybe they expect to just add hours once you're dependant on them. I want
you please to be careful while looking for another vendor at this price; I am
very concerned that this budget is not in fact possible, which is why I'm
walking away from an offer which means so much to me, both in business and in
emotional terms. In the vernacular, you get what you pay for.

"But I'm not willing to do damage to you in order to accept a low-ball budget.
Part of my responsibility as a contractor is to say no to impossible budgets,
and with all due respect, this is an impossible budget.

"I have very much enjoyed working with and for you, and I don't want to lose
this channel. But I must maintain my clients' safety, and at this price, I
cannot.

"If you find another vendor, and if they don't work out for you, please
consider my door wide open. I would love to retain your business and your
relationship, even after a delay, and it is my belief that no contractor can
succeed at this price.

"But, I apologize. I cannot accept this price sheet; it is unrealistic.

"Please be well, and understand that I remain available to you if you find
that contractors willing to accept a rate like this are not able to deliver a
quality with which you are satisfied. I look forward to the likelihood of
doing business with you again soon, and I will make a rush rate available to
you at a much lower cost than usual, to help you get back on schedule.

"Thank you for your consideration, and I hope the best for you. Please keep me
in mind if you need a reliable contractor in the future."

~~~
j2bax
Wow! That is an incredibly well thought out response. Thanks so much. I have
already made my response and while it wasn't quite as eloquent and elaborate,
it essentially said that we would love to prove to them that we are worth the
extra budget but we can't commit to their current pricing expectations. I will
surely reference this in the future as it shows an incredible amount of
respect while being completely honest.

