
Ask HN: Quit job to avoid burnout? - matburnout
Hi HN!<p>Apologies for throwaway, I&#x27;d rather minimize chances anyone I know reads that.<p>I could really use some advice here. I&#x27;m a 28 years old robotics engineer working at a small startup near one of the most expensive cities in the world (my partner received once in a lifetime opportunity here).<p>I feel like I&#x27;m heavily burned out. I&#x27;m the most senior person in my team (at 4 years of experience!!!) and for the past six months I&#x27;ve been doing nothing but writing documents, presentations and coaching junior devs (that&#x27;s actually the most enjoyable part). What contributes to me feeling burned out is the management micromanaging everything I do and undermining most of my decisions (even though they don&#x27;t have engineering background and and are quite open about not knowing much about technicalities). I brought those facts up to my manager attention lately but it didn&#x27;t change anything.<p>The only way I grow my technical skills is through learning at home or making side projects but I feel I can&#x27;t catch up properly with any technologies after hours.<p>I&#x27;ve been trying to find some alternative job but find it quite difficult because of language barrier, not having a CS degree and the fact that there are not many robotics companies in the area. I sent out over 20 CVs in the past month and I received negative answer for every one of them.<p>I have enough money to support myself for 6-8 months and my partner willing to help out if things go really south. I also have one freelance project on a table that would add another month support. I also have a SaS idea and a hardware startup idea that I think could take off if I spend some time on them.<p>I&#x27;m your view is it worth it to quit without having secured a job and go into freelance&#x2F;consulting? I would need to earn 1000 Euro a month to pay my bills and have something to eat.<p>I would love to hear your opinion and experiences.
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psyc
I have a lot of experience with burnout, and I've formed a pretty strong
opinion of it. The risk of burnout has practically unlimited downsides. If you
can 'tough it out' then it isn't really burnout. If not, then the upside is
limited to collecting another month or two of salary, at ever increasing risk
of serious health issues. If you believe you're actually burning out, my
advice is to just get out. There are a lot of jobs out there. A lot. No need
to make yourself miserable over one job. I don't have a degree either. Also
from experience: living on a tight budget is much better than health problems.
Living on a tight budget is much better than hating your career.

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Qworg
Woof, that's rough.

RE: Robotics firms - start looking at adjacent industries that value
sensors/hardware/computing knowledge - things like IoT, manufacturing, or home
automation all seem reasonable side jumps.

RE: Consulting - you have a specialized skill set, so the initial set of jobs
may be harder. If you feel you can learn quickly on the fly, it may work out.
From the euro comment, you're overseas? I'm unfamiliar with labor law, so I
don't know how bad/good consulting is in your area.

I'm open to chatting more if you'd like - email is in my profile. Us robot
folk have to stick together.

~~~
matburnout
Thanks for the encouragement. It's a very good idea about IoT companies. I'll
definitely give it a shot.

You are right, I'm based in Europe now (moved to Geneva, Switzerland from
other EU country).

I'll try to follow up in an email in a couple of days after I digest what
others suggested in this thread. Thanks again!

~~~
seren
I am working on a medical device with a (simple) robotic arm, most people we
have recruited have done low level/middleware development in automotive or
aerospace. All these domains are using very similar technologies with very
similar hw or timing constraints (not mentioning regulatory). So you could
probably also work in these areas too (if you have some inclination to writing
specifications for days).

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antonkm
I am only a stranger on the internet, but if I were you I'd leave the toxic
environment you're in.

You're 28 years old, burned out and have 6-8 months saved up. I'm 30+ now and
live a happy life, but I was severely burnt out between the years 23-26.

It took me those years to get back to my normal self after crashing. I feel
like those years are lost for me. I felt numb and didn't care about anything.
All because of bad management and me being a constant overachiever. Life is
not about working until there's nothing left of you - get out and try not to
worry too much. The change will probably be scary but you'll find a new path.

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muzani
Consulting is highly risky at this point, until you have a couple of clients
lined up. The way it's worked for me is that one of my job's partner contacts
me on a deal, I do a good job, they recommend me to 5 of their friends (as
they know people in the industry), and it snowballs from there.

You just have to get to that sweet spot of meeting the client. Managers are
usually smart to put a barrier between the person who does the work and the
person who pays for it.

But in your case I would take the risk as your job seems quite dead end.

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p0d
I told my employer I planned to leave 3 years ago and they were kind enough to
let me go part-time. I have a sideline which pays the bills the other two days
of the week.

Two thoughts. When you are in a dark place sometimes things are darker than
they seem. Is part time an option?

The truth is it’s hard making your own money. I was all set for downing tools
but retrospectively this would have been hard financially.

I can also see now some of my stress was expectations I put on myself. If you
are more stressed as an employee than your employer there’s something wrong in
my book. You sound like a high output person. I now have an attitude of, “you
want to pay me for doing stupid things, go ahead”. I chose my battles and
don’t get so wound up as much about other’s decisions. Having my own side
business helps in this regard as well.

Finally, my stress was stressing my wife. Looking back she had stomach
problems which mapped to my unhappiness. A great help for me was taking an
hour after work and not bringing all the aggravation home.

Things will get better for you, the transition may just take a little longer
than you hope.

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Blackstone4
From what I've read, I feel like you have the ability to weld considerable
power to change your circumstances. You are the most senior engineer at a
technical startup. If you leave it could kill the company. At the same time
the management might not have the wisdom to see that.

What is making you feel burnt out? Long hours? Management? Long commutes?

How can you mitigate the feeling of burnout in the short term to give you some
room to think and plan your next move? Could you take a holiday. Could you
work less hours? Could you bring in healthier boundaries with your manager and
colleagues.

If you can alleviate the stress in the short-term, it could make it easier to
find another job/opportunity.

If you see no way of doing this, then quit. Your health is your most important
asset.

Believe in yourself that you can find something and the future is bright. :)
You make your own luck and fortune favors the brave.

~~~
matburnout
Thanks a lot for those questions, they are really helpful in self evaluation
and deciding on further steps. Sometimes I think I should be more patient but
somedays I feel like I should just drop it and hope for the best.

~~~
Blackstone4
Glad you found them helpful.

I might also suggest meditation and using the Headspace app to get started :)
I found doing just 10 minutes a day helped me through a stressful period.

~~~
matburnout
I just started meditating last week, after realizing I'm starting to feel
miserable. Did you feel better after first sessions or did it take some time
before you saw some changes?

~~~
Blackstone4
It takes time so keep at it.

It won't necessity solve your problems but you'll be able to better process
your feelings.

I found it helped give me more clarity over what I wanted.

Stay strong and find a solution that works for you. We all hate uncertainty
but it's a big part of life. Reading Buddhist philosophy helped me realize I'm
going to be okay no matter what happens. Even if I lose my job. No matter what
happens I can deal with it

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istorical
If you are thinking of quitting anyway, why don't you take the risk of telling
management that you need them to change the way they work with you or you may
look elsewhere for work?

If you make some gentle demands and explain the way you're feeling, while
offering constructive suggestions, and say it all politely and nicely but with
the threat of leaving if things don't improve, then the worst case scenario is
they fire you. But you wanted to quit anyway so it's OK. The best case is they
change and things improve and you either decide to stay or you have more time
to look for another job while it's less mentally taxing.

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wkrause
My 2 cents, do more to try to fix the environment you're in. If you're adding
the kind of value it sounds like you are, then you might have more power than
you realize. Worst case scenario they push you out, in which case you're in a
similar position to just leaving.

6-8 months of savings is okay, but might not be enough especially if you
haven't yet gotten traction when applying to new jobs. Burn out is bad, but
the desperation that can come from a long job hunt as your savings dwindle can
be a different kind of hell.

~~~
matburnout
I'm really trying to make things better however for most of the ideas the
reaction I get is "make a proper business case and we will look into it".
Sometimes I'm even wondering if I should give up with trying to change things.
I just want to do some proper engineering work for a change

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serpix
as a recent burnout recoveree, it is possible at this point you have already
lost a significant portion of your reserves and capacity to recover. You need
to make immediate changes which allow you to recover energy. Burnout recovery
is painful and you do not come out the same person.

If you are having a hard time sleeping or have unexplainable pains and aches
this is your wake up call to act, your body WILL stop you at some point.

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hahahaha23
I’m in a similar situation and considering quitting. I also have had a mvp
built for a saas idea but I don’t know if that can give me financial
independence. Maybe 6 months later, after spending too much savings, I will
need to look for a new job again.

I’m being approached by a startup also. What they promised (the work I will be
doing) seems to be nice. But I am hesitating. Don’t want to be burnt out
again.

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jakobegger
If you have a partner who offers to support you, there's nothing wrong with
accepting that offer. That's the nice thing about having a partner -- you
don't need to support yourself 100% of the time -- you can also rely on your
partner some of the time.

~~~
ffwacom
This is risky, could shift relationship dynamic and add more onto OPs plate.

~~~
Blackstone4
Life is full of risk. If people stopped doing things because they were
risky.... well then nothing would happen. Computers wouldn't exist.....ahhhhh

~~~
quickthrower2
And there is only the Tao. In other words the 'bad thing' that one is 'at risk
of' is a blessing, and it isn't.

