

IAmA: I sell an app for iPhone and Android. I make $10k per month. - sadiq
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/caq8f/iama_developer_who_sells_the_same_app_both_in_the/

======
hugh3
It's an ask-me-anything where you can ask him anything _except_ the one thing
you really want to know: what app is it and what does it do?

As such the top question at the moment is "What do you do with the money?"
which seems like a pretty dull question. What does anyone with $120K a year do
with the money? The usual stuff, no doubt.

~~~
andreyf
Read it. While the average post on news.YC is better than the average on
reddit, there are many diamonds in the rough.

 _what app is it and what does it do?_

It's called "360 Live", it lets you see your friends' Xbox 360 Live stats.

Some other notes:

    
    
      * single developer, aged 29, maintains separate day job
      * ratio of iPhone:Android sales is 3:1, but Android is unquestionably growing
      * his sales are ~90% US, ~10% UK
      * he very strongly prefers the Android dev environment
      * but he prefers the AppStore to the Marketplace
      * about 27% of Marketplace apps are "returned" (he suspects they're pirated)
      * on Android, copying an app to your SD card lets you refund but keep the app
      * he likes Java over Objective-C (but reiterates that it's a personal preference)
      * the back-end is written in .NET, which he works with full-time
      * best place for help on writing an app is Stack Overflow
      * the app got traction by being mentioned in a popular industry blog
      * he started the app on a hackintosh
      * evolved from personal hobby (gaming)
      * feedback and a lot of iteration were essential for a good application
      * personal phone is Nexus One
      * Apple's marketplace makes taxes easier
      * he has no plans to move to Window 7, Blackberry, or Nokia (no $ incentive)
    

My biggest take from it: when you have an industry that is very "tight" and
hence easily targeted (gaming platforms, specific games, etc), making a great
product into a successful product will require absolutely minimal marketing.

~~~
trafficlight
I recall there being a Penny Arcade strip about just this sort of thing...

Ah, here it is: <http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/6/19/>

~~~
hugh3
I have to say that it does seem like an app of limited utility. Surprising
that thousands of people per month have decided that they really want to see
their friends' xbox 360 stats when they're away from their xbox 360s.

Still, good luck to him!

~~~
sonofjanoh
For some people xbox is their facebook or twitter.

------
sshumaker
Some interesting points:

* 3x profit on the iPhone version ($7500 vs. $2500)

* android store piracy: 35%. iphone: 10%. (apparently it's easy to abuse the android 24-hour return policy)

* OP claims that eye candy is extremely important - "50% of the battle." Android doesn't require you to follow design guidelines, which might be why most of the apps 'look like crap'.

* Advice: "Find a broad niche and study your competitors. If you see room for substantial improvements, go for it. You'll make money."

~~~
pkulak
I'm not sure I buy that all of those returns are piracy. His app could just be
broken on the G1, for instance. Or people could misunderstand what the app is
when they download it. I find it hard to believe that many people have rooted
phones.

~~~
trin_
the numbers he mentions are all piracy. his app involves a server-side so he
counts the users on the server-side and the actual paying users per platform.

~~~
ZeroGravitas
Both the numbers seem high to me, but that could be a function of targeting
the young, techy gamer crowd.

------
sadiq
Sorry, had to totally butcher the title to get it in to 80 chars.

He mentions his app works on the iPad too.

I find the 3:1 ratio of iPhone:Android sales to be quite interesting actually,
higher than i'd expect given what i'd read about people's experiences (or
maybe those doing well from it are just keeping quiet?).

~~~
lanstein
Well, he did say that the app gets returned 27% of the time on Android, which
certainly doesn't help (he guessed a large number of the returns are because
the user pirated the app and returned it).

~~~
lotharbot
Later in the thread he mentioned the actual piracy rates (computed from number
of instances that access his server vs number of units sold):

35% android, 13% apple.

Looks like, even if all of the pirated Android versions were paid for, he'd
still be making about twice as much on the Apple version.

~~~
whatusername
That figure might be overestimating though?

At least on the App Store - when you buy an app it's tied to the account - not
to a device.. So In my house there are two devices that use a paid version of
the app..

~~~
jasonlotito
But the app is set up in such a way that even if you had two devices, he'd
know it was still one user. The numbers could still be off, but knowing what
the App is and what it entails, it's actually pretty easy to get a fairly
accurate piracy rate.

------
dpcan
One interesting point he makes in the comments is that he does NOT offer a
free version of his app.

------
pkulak
That's actually pretty cool that the guy is making $2500 a month on Android.

------
famfam
These kinds of posts always send me into a tailspin of jealousy. :) I've still
not made enough money on the AppStore to even be paid out once. And my app
went up almost a year ago!

~~~
mirkules
I'm in the same position, had an app out for a while now. Released it for free
for two weeks, seen INCREDIBLE numbers -- almost 200K downloads -- then back
to paid, and... fizzle.

Does anyone have any experience in marketing apps? I would love to know which
methods have the most results.

~~~
famfam
I have friends that game their apps into the Top 50 by buying it with 30 or so
different accounts they set up. This is not in the entertainment category
though. I hate marketing and I hate marketing for the iPhone more than
anything. So many of the iPhone app review blogs seem like payola plays too.
"Expedite your review for $200" and that kind of crap. This guy's smart
because he probably got Xbox blogs to cover it, not iPhone blogs.

~~~
mirkules
Agreed about payola, although most of the avenues I've advertised through did
not require anything other than a free copy of my app (game). Some wanted you
to advertise through them, although it's a no-obligation deal.

But I like your comment about getting XBox to cover your app -- the XBox
market probably isn't very saturated with iPhone apps, so his must have stood
out well. Good idea, thanks :)

------
greyman
I like this AMA format. Can we have something like that here on HN as well?

------
SingAlong
I just read most of the thread and there are a lot of posts concerning about
app piracy on Android where the user buys the app and returns it for a refund
after copying the binaries.

But interestingly a user on the thread pointed out this... _"You can't backup
any app on Android. You can set the apk to non-distributable, which won't
allow it to be backed up."_ Others say you can copy the app if you have root
access.

And I found another thread on the Android Market forums Google.
[http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Android+Market/thread?...](http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Android+Market/thread?tid=1d4d0b7df8ac88b3&hl=en)

Can any other android developer here throw some light on this?

~~~
jsz0
That is correct. Rooted users can copy whatever they want. I believe some of
the popular GUI file management tools like Astro won't allow it even if you're
rooted but that's only a minor stumbling point. You can do it via a shell or
use one of the utilities that does it automatically.

~~~
SingAlong
So the answer to the question "will i make enough $ on android with the piracy
problem?" would be "depends on the number of generous users".

~~~
orangecat
Sure, just like most other platforms. Pirating apps on the iPhone is trivial
as well.

His return rate seems high; mine is less than 10%. No idea what my piracy rate
is, and I don't really care. Although I would if my app required server
resources that I was paying for.

------
watty
I'm making about $30/month on Android... damnit

~~~
starnix17
If it makes you feel any better you're beating me :-)

I'm pulling in about $22/month...

