
 Tim Cook Says Apple Is Focusing on an Autonomous Car System - nthuser
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-13/cook-says-apple-is-focusing-on-making-an-autonomous-car-system
======
delinka
Dear Tim,

Please _focus_ on Mac hardware. Please _focus_ on giving me the hardware tools
to work and play on the macOS platform. Continue improving your mobile
devices. Consider adding and improving only those things that will continue to
make my business and leisure tasks smoother, simpler, and more enjoyable.

I'd rather you didn't take focus from the things you've traditionally done
well to do something that's never been in your wheelhouse. If you want to get
involved with automobiles, work with the industry to improve my life while I'm
riding along in the autonomous vehicle, but please don't try to build the
autonomous vehicle. I'd prefer you wait until the market is saturated with
terrible implementations so you can learn from others' mistakes and come along
with a much-improved offering.

But for now, just give me and my fellows Macs we can depend on for everything,
a reliable mobile experience that doesn't throw out the habits we gained on
the previous iteration, and the tools to make great software for your
platforms.

\--d

~~~
IBM
Reminds me of this classic comment on Macrumors when the iPod launched [1]:

Sounds very revolutionary to me. :mad:

hey - heres an idea Apple - rather than enter the world of gimmicks and toys,
why dont you spend a little more time sorting out your pathetically expensive
and crap server line up? :mad: or are you really aiming to become a glorified
consumer gimmicks firm? :mad:

[1] [https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apples-new-thing-
ipod.5...](https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apples-new-thing-ipod.500/)

~~~
badsectoracula
Didn't people said the same thing about iPhone, that Apple would fail if they
enter in the already oversaturated phone market and they should stick with
what they do best instead?

~~~
bvi
Indeed. Can't wait to look back at this thread 10 years from now.

~~~
maneesh
The only difference is Jobs and Cook

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lovemenot
How is this going to play out for Apple? Ideally, they'd want to make all the
hardware, software and services. Just one model at first.

Yet that was too much of a stretch. So they are focusing on autonomous driving
systems which would have to integrate with third parties' dumb cars.

I could see Google or Microsoft executing such a strategy. Not Apple though.
They'd need to control all the parts.

Only Tesla can make the car that Apple would be proud of, but couldn't make on
their own. So I predict that Apple acquires Tesla for its brand, products and
heir-apparent.

~~~
gutnor
Would Apple buy a big already established large player ? Their style is more
like buying a tiny player, integrating it and rebranding their expertise under
Apple flag.

I was thinking that Lotus would have been the type of Apple candidate and on
the market for acquisition. That's basically starting the same road as Tesla,
15 later - seems a bit late for that. Volvo is another company that would
align nicely with Apple design goals, but similarly they have progressed along
too well.

Maybe brand like Saab that has still retained enough engineering capability,
had some traditional car design know how ( interior design like seat, ... )
that can quickly (i.e. Apple need a fully autonomous car in the next 10 years
top) be capitalised with Apple own know-how into a decent Tesla, VW, BMW,
Volvo 2025 competitor ?

~~~
chadgeidel
As both a Lotus fan and an Apple fan, I'm not sure their goals are at all
aligned. Lotus is singularly focused on a "pure driving experience" and their
cars are minimalistic (very few driving aids, very little noise insulation,
thinly padded seats, firm suspension damping) by design. They only recently
adopted automatic transmissions in their "flagship" car (the Evora). I really
don't think an autonomous Lotus would be "a Lotus".

I would be shocked if any current or potential Lotus owner would be interested
in a "automated Lotus". That being said, I think the number of "current or
potential Lotus owners" is a vanishingly small market, so it may not matter.

------
tomkinstinch
Interestingly, I saw a white "Apple Maps" branded van in my city recently,
with four (Velodyne?) LiDAR heads on the roof, one on each corner, along with
cameras in the center. Such a system would produce way more LiDAR data than
they need for routine mapping, but perhaps enough to build a database for
autonomous driving. I live far from Silicon Valley, so they must be confident
that data will be useful eventually—enough so to justify the cost of driving
around the country and storing an immense volume of LiDAR data.

~~~
michaelt
Quite a few mapping companies have some LIDAR on their vehicles these days.

Tele Atlas:
[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tele_Atlas_camera_au...](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tele_Atlas_camera_automobile_2008-02-29_1.jpg)
TomTom:
[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mapping_van_tomtom_w...](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mapping_van_tomtom_with_five_lidars.jpg)
and of course Google:
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Google_M...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Google_Maps_Car_at_Googleplex.jpg)

While detailed LIDAR data is valuable for self-driving vehicles, you can also
put it to more mundane uses. For example detecting where the kerbs are
relative to the mapping vehicle; and detecting whether that featureless
concrete-coloured thing the cameras captured was a barrier or not.

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some62345
Apple is very good in coming into a market that has existed for a while and
applying their design principles. I don't usually associate them with cutting
edge technology.

Autonomous cars haven't existed for a while so I'm a bit skeptical Apple will
be able to deliver something trustworthy.

~~~
slap_shot
This assumes Apple is going to release the car before autonomous cars become
an established market. Apple probably could have released HomePod back in 2014
around the time Alexa was released. They chose to watch the market unfold and
enter when they felt was right.

There's no reason they can't be working on a car that won't be released for 5+
years, after the market has matured.

~~~
Avenger42
Apple typically doesn't announce that far out, though. They usually announce
when their products are much closer to market, once they've got a device or
two built and in hand that they can show off (like the recent HomePod and iMac
Pro).

Granted, earlier this year we saw them meet with Apple-centric press to tell
them "don't worry, we're building another Mac Pro, just not in 2017", but
those present pointed out how un-Apple-like it was to make such an
announcement.

~~~
slap_shot
That's exactly my point - there is no working demonstration. This could be 5+
years away for all we know.

If Tim Cook unveiled the new car today, som62345's concern would be valid.

For now, we just know it is an area of interest for Apple and they may one day
release a product.

Perhaps the more interesting part of this is that this is the the second time
since Steve Job's death that Apple has revealed an area that is working in
before unveiling the product.

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mrweasel
The fact that Apple is repeatedly referred to as "The iPhone maker" makes me a
little sad.

Anyway: except for the obvious answer "money" I don't really see why Apple
feel the need to compete in the autonomous car market. Is it because Samsung
makes cars?

~~~
dingo_bat
Almost their entire profit comes from iphones. I think it's fair to refer to
it as "the iPhone maker". Most people have heard of Apple only in relation to
iPhone.

~~~
sspyder
I disagree. It might be what they are most talked about now, but I think most
people are familiar with their history. Steve Jobs, the old macs in schools,
iPod, iMac, etc.

~~~
pound
Nope, if you'll consider most people (as in worldwide) today vast majority of
people have no idea what old macs in schools are. But iPhones are big.

------
cx1000
After reading all the speculation about Apple's car project for so long, I'm
actually a little underwhelmed hearing their plans. I'm not surprised at what
they're doing, but there has been so much secrecy over nothing. I wonder why
they kept it so close to their chest.

~~~
dustinarmstrong
Investors. Don't want to be seen as straying too far from the path or doing
anything risky.

~~~
johnsmith21006
Think investors want the opposite. Apple to get in there and innovate again
and do something. No 4k or HDR or VR or AI or 2 in 1s, etc.

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pakl
In the interview, Tim Cook says nothing about working on cars. He recognizes
that a new core technology is needed for autonomous systems, but doesn't say
anything to imply they're working on a car.

Along with Cook recently saying humans should be involved in decision-making,
there are some very interesting AI-related statements coming out of Apple
these days.

------
PayForPeenus
Apple, like Tesla, share the same valley space in Southern San Fran. Elon Musk
has eluded to this as well, as a reality in the very near future. To be
perfectly frank, it's a natural fit for these two to be on the same vector and
with the OS developer cycles with Apple after iterations with Darwin / Unix -
which oh ya BTW runs some of the NASA space junk we have floating around - is
the natural fit for Tesla. Maybe .. just maybe we see the Apple OS running
Tesla cars in this fashion. I mean, it's almost obvious that these two are
dating. I think the rest of the world maybe ignores it, but to me .. it's damn
near obvious what the collaboration is, possibly already.

------
intoverflow2
Bothers me that Apple invests it's time on this.

Honestly if Apple disappeared tomorrow someone else would manage to fill this
car gap just fine. But if Apple disappeared tomorrow who would fill the gap
their computer hardware and OS left?

Windows is getting slowly better but I don't think it will ever truly manage
to be as slick as OS X. Especially when the passionate Windows insist on using
an 8 year old OS and devs insist on writing software using the same systems
and libraries they were using 15+ years ago.

To me Apple is only valuable as a computer company, an Apple car would just be
a toy for the super rich.

I do wonder if this project came about as a way to keep talent in the
building?

~~~
askafriend
Yeah I agree with you, Apple is only valuable as a computer company - they
should have just stuck to computers. They should have never wandered off into
making mp3 players and cell phones which are just toys for the rich.

/s

~~~
intoverflow2
Think your privilege is showing that you're equating a three figure purchase
to a six figure.

~~~
askafriend
Focusing on Autonomous and straight up building and selling a car are
completely different things.

Everyone here is assuming the latter with no evidence to support it.

------
Shivetya
Going to be interesting to see how the final regulations are written and which
company benefits the most. By this I mean this whole area is will pretty much
the Wild West. There are initial regulations governing the requirements of
such work but they are by no means final. An example of how favoritism towards
manufacturers works in this area is the 7500 tax rebate for battery equipped
cars. It was practically carved out to meet the requirements GM had for the
first generation Volt. GM also played a big factor in how DRLs were regulated,
they wanted to save money on the the voltage converter so a higher limit was
allowed.

------
KKKKkkkk1
If the interview took place June 5th, why has Bloomberg been sitting on it
until now?

~~~
sparkling
1\. Wait for a big AAPL stock dip, like in the last week

2\. Buy high-leveraged CFDs on AAPL

3\. Release the news

4\. Profit

~~~
jetti
Wouldn't that count as insider trading as they would have information that
wasn't yet released, AFAIK, to the public?

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desireco42
I think Apple is seriously in need of direction and good vision. I never
believed that Jobs had such immense impact, I thought that he as a excellent
leader was providing vision and guidance but also using a lot of other smart
people like Jonathan Ive and Cook to create excellent products. To me, it
seems that without him others are lost and just doing 'what is right' is hard
for them.

Wish them the best, but they need to get their core business right (said he
who types this on 6 yrs old Macbook Air)

------
ebbv
I'm convinced one of the issues with Tim Cook era Apple is failure to focus.
Trying to do too many things at once is what leads companies to be mediocre at
all of them.

~~~
scj
"... it comes from saying no to 1,000 things to make sure we don't get on the
wrong track or try to do too much. We're always thinking about new markets we
could enter, but it's only by saying no that you can concentrate on the things
that are really important." \- Steve Jobs

------
MarkMc
I can't see any sustainable competitive advantage in autonomous car tech.

The iPhone has strong network effects and a luxury brand. But auto driving
tech is strictly a commodity - if the next Ford Focus comes with a "Powered by
Apple" label nobody will pay more than if the label read "Powered by Google".

~~~
dep_b
I would pay less for a car labeled "Powered by Google", I don't know if that
counts? If I'm going to be datamined while it works and left stranded with a
device that I can use for 20 years yet only gets 3 years of updates, then I
want that car maker to pay me to use it, not the other way around.

But powered by Apple? Meh. For many people it still means "but I'm not using
anything by Apple".

------
yodon
This seems completely backwards.

In terms of its products, Apple is already essentially a luxury automobile
manufacturer today, it just happens to be a luxury auto manufacturer that
makes laptops rather than cars. They make expensive, high grade physical
products whose quality and status help people of means define their personal
brands and lives in ways that bring joy and function. That's indistinguishable
from the role of a BMW or Audi or etc.

Google, Amazon, and Microsoft are all much better equipped and positioned to
build amazing AI. It's that Jony Ives chassis, exterior, and interior that
that would set the automotive industry on fire.

~~~
amelius
> It's that Jony Ives chassis, exterior, and interior that that would set the
> automotive industry on fire.

If his car design is anything like his watch designs, then I doubt it.

~~~
yodon
Good point (normally I'd just upvote you but that doesn't do as good a job of
communicating you'd influenced the opinion of the person you were responding
to)

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skc
This is fantastic if only for the competition and innovation such an
announcement will bring.

I feel autonomous cars going mainstream could be more transformative than many
realize.

------
deegles
I have a theory that the drop in Apple's software quality over the last few
years can be attributed to the 'top' internal talent moving to this project.
It would be a great career builder and since it requires a big investment
there would be demand from up high to have the best talent in place, even at
the expense of other projects.

~~~
photojosh
Drop? I updated from 10.10 to 10.12 on my 13" MBP only recently, and it is
worlds better. Likewise I've found iOS 10 to be the most stable ever, even as
I do more and more on it. I have experienced some recent bugs (couldn't
download any apps for a while), but they got resolved fairly quickly.

Yes, you have people arguing there's been a drop in software quality, it seems
to have been a great click-bait topic in 2016 particularly.

I think this article accurately describes the situation:
[https://medium.com/@AlexandraMint/apple-s-elephant-in-the-
ro...](https://medium.com/@AlexandraMint/apple-s-elephant-in-the-
room-5383a43dc413#.54i4rzaqs)

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skyzyx
You realize that he didn’t mention anything about cars, right?

------
aerovistae
again?

~~~
heavymark
Apple has been focusing on it for many many years, but the news today is that
Cook himself has admitted it is a focus rather than they his limited past
remarks such as that they are watching the space.

------
chrismealy
Apple's genius will be to get people to pay luxury car prices for something
built by brutalized Chinese labor.

------
amelius
.

~~~
vlozko
I'm not sure you actually read the article you linked. The focus is on delayed
purchasing of cars, not an outright lack of ownership. There's no way I'll
ever be using a rental service when I have to constantly worry about having a
stroller, diaper bag, car seats, and so much more. I don't see the issue of
family mobility solved anywhere in the horizon by "cars as a service."

~~~
cx1000
The article says it may be delayed but it also says this.

> Some critics are skeptical that millennials will ever catch up. Prolonging
> car-buying, they say, means fewer cars purchased during one’s lifetime, a
> problem for the auto industry.

and

> millennials are looking for cars from manufacturers that integrate
> seamlessly with their smartphones and sync with other technology

Which actually is in line with what Apple is doing. Either way, I agree it's
not a stupid move.

~~~
dagw
_Prolonging car-buying, they say, means fewer cars purchased during one’s
lifetime, a problem for the auto industry._

I bought my first car when I was 36. Compared to friends who got their first
car when they where 18, the main difference is that I've bought 1 fairly nice
new car in my life and they've bought 1 fairly nice new car and 5 pieces of
crap. By the time we're both 65 we'll probably have spent about the same total
amount of money buying cars in our lifetime.

------
ruffrey
How about focusing on putting 32 GB of memory in a laptop.

