
Princesses Are Not Great Role Models for Girls - urahara
https://thewire.in/157668/princess-role-model-little-girls/
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ClassyJacket
I agree with the title, as it's not optimal for role models to be primarily
women who have power, success and happiness because they were born into it by
luck.

However:

"Mulan is a bold Chinese warrior, respected and followed by her people…all of
whom think she is a man, because she has deceived them by cutting her hair.
The point here appears to be that to become a good leader, a woman should look
and act like a man."

This person has _severely_ misunderstood the point of Mulan.

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giblaz
Thanks. I was wondering if I was the only one who noticed that as well. The
entire point of Mulan was to show that regardless of your gender you could be
a powerful leader and warrior. Her pretending to be a man is there to show you
that the gender roles are bunk.

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gambiting
"With Pocahontas (1995), for example, Disney showed that not even cartoon
women can “have it all”. The Indian princess must choose between success in
the public sphere and a happy romantic life."

If you make a movie about life in a society which does not value women
equally, how can you be surprised that the movie does not present them as
such.

"Mulan is a bold Chinese warrior, respected and followed by her people…all of
whom think she is a man, because she has deceived them by cutting her hair.
The point here appears to be that to become a good leader, a woman should look
and act like a man."

I mean....what? Is that the lesson you got out of that movie??? It's an
_extremely_ shallow interpretation of the message here, one that almost seems
bent just to fit a certain narrative.

"But, the protagonist Elsa has dubious leadership skills. As the elder sister,
she is responsible for governing, but when she gets nervous she lets her
emotions get the better of her. Despite her good intentions, she cannot
effectively wield power.

As a result, she freezes her realm and withdraws into a solitary world. In
other words, she lacks emotional intelligence."

Once again, you are trying to make the interpretation fit the narration. Maybe
she is just portrayed as a normal human being who has flaws, not a perfect-in-
every-way robot? Wouldn't a film where the main character never makes any
mistakes and has perfect control of their emotions be just.....boring? If
anything, I'm really bothered by the fact that in those movies men are shown
as having zero emotions whatsoever, as if men should have everything planned
out beforehand - what a stupid idea.

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exabrial
I agreed with the premise of the article: I don't want my daughters to feel
they are hapless beings designed for a man's pleasure.

But I departed about halfway through the article, at "gender free toys."

It's no secret that _on average_ , women tend to be more empathetic than men,
and men tend to be more assertive/combative than women. There are of course
exceptions to this rule, and of course, reasons why each sex should develop
both skills.

However, after reading "Now, Discover Your Strengths" it's also _vitally_
important that you play to your natural strengths more than anything. For a
large percentage of women, this _may_ mean developing the very valuable skill
of empathy, and for men, this _may_ mean learning to control and focus their
natural aggression. Gender oriented toys can help children develop these
skills at a young age.

There's a wide spectrum of overlap between men and women but denying the very
obvious truth that they are inherently different is not only ridiculous but
can disable people from using their natural abilities to suceed.

~~~
mercutio2
Amen!

How do you feel about the marketing, though? I don't object to my daughter
reveling in dolls, fancy clothes, and Playmobil, but I do object to specific
character brands being pushed at her. I feel they collapse the imagination
space too much.

I have, somewhat shockingly to my sneering internal 13 year old boy, allowed
My Little Pony branding through my relatively strict anti-brand filter,
because the female characters are surprisingly reasonable.

But on the whole, it's a struggle. Every other product my daughter sees at
Target is a branded Disney product, and even though she's never even seen most
of the characters animated, she's drawn like a moth to a flame.

~~~
DanBC
the relentless pinking and bluing of toys is pretty objectionable, and reduces
what children feel allowed to like.

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belorn
Any analysis is incomplete if all it look at is the protagonist without
looking at the mirror image that is the antagonist. Each film is only as good
as its villain, so what does a typical Disney villain look like and what
gender/attributes do they have?

In Pocahontas the antagonist is the exploiter, the disrupter of natural order,
and the destroyer, and male. In Hercules he is the manipulator and
manifestation of evil. In Mulan he is represented as the mindless horde of
destroyers. In frozen he is the liar, the cheater, the bully. In Aladdin it is
the mustache-twirling, eye-rolling, leering, and old man.

There is a small minority of Disney movies that have a female antagonist, but
they are all version of the same evil witch stereotype. Old, infertile,
predator of children.

So what does this teach children about social behavior and crime? What about
who deserve sympathy and who is redeemable? About conflict resolution and
handling of blame?

Disney movies aren't the best places if we want to avoid stereotypes, and that
include the newer movies like Frozen.

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mercutio2
This is a good and interesting article, with which I largely agree (I impose
more extreme limitations on princess products than this author is calling for,
in fact).

But this statement, which the author implies is problematic:

"A successful public life interferes in a woman’s private life."

Just seems true, regardless of whether you replace woman with person.

Pretending all adults have limitless capacity to be SuperFamily while
simultaneously being SuperWorkerBee just seems silly.

As it happens, I tend to think The Kids Are Alright is a pretty good way of
thinking about family/work compromises; it's mostly about adult's preference
to be all things to all people, not about kids' needs.

In a way, I think this idea we're super accessible to kids even when working
hard actually can lead to worse parent child engagement. Really high quality
interactions often take planning, and if you're too busy beating yourself up
over missing bedtime, you don't take the time to plan that special activity.

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wavefunction
Thank god. If ever I am lucky enough to have a daughter I hope to expose her
to the vivacious and remarkable women throughout history, be they scientists
or explorers or athletes.

The reality for most actual Princesses throughout history is depressing and
off-putting, and the fantasy is saccharine and irresponsible.

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ctdonath
Another biased article completely failing to address the natural tendencies
toward "gender roles". Yes, maybe society tends to enforce them, but kids are
not blank slates waiting for gender assignment.

There's a difference between "back off the pink and guns" vs "respect natural
tendencies, and variations thereto".

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DanBC
If you want good role models for girls the book _Good Night Stories for Rebel
Girls_ might be interesting.

[https://www.amazon.co.uk/Good-Night-Stories-Rebel-
Girls/dp/0...](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Good-Night-Stories-Rebel-
Girls/dp/014198600X)

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lupinglade
Do most people really not realize this? Teach your kids to be human and
capable, not princesses and scared of everything.

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easychewie
_1\. Leadership is male.

2\. Women are better leaders when they look and act like men.

3\. A successful public life interferes in a woman’s private life.

4\. When women get emotionally involved, they lose rational thought, and their
leadership capacity fails them._

I couldn't agree more.

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eeZah7Ux
Please quote this in context! The author is criticizing those stereotypes.

~~~
easychewie
I don't agree with the author. With a few notable exceptions, these tend to be
truisms in my experience.

