
Terrorism Experts Say QAnon Conspiracy Theory a Threat to National Security - pmoriarty
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/889kgp/terrorism-experts-say-qanon-conspiracy-theory-a-threat-to-national-security
======
ncmncm
Apparently pedophiles are the new communist moles, who were the new witches.
Who did the witches fill in for, apostates?

~~~
core-questions
Are you denying that there have been tons of high-profile pedophiles, child-
trafficiking rings, etc? Did you miss the whole Epstein thing? It's reasonable
to assume that that's just the tip of the iceberg; not that there's any reason
to believe the Q people are going to get to the bottom of any of this.
Regardless, it's a reasonable open area of investigation that impacts many
people's lives.

Do you deny that there was Communist infiltration into government decades ago?
McCarthyism may have caused a lot of collateral damage but it's clear to
anyone that there was plenty of espionage work happening on behalf of Russia
at that time. Hell, if you believe the election tampering meme, it's still
happening to this day.

Both of those things are/were real. We may never know the whole story, but
that doesn't mean there's no reason to look into it.

Witches don't need to be brought into this, though of course it seems clear to
me that Salem was successful since there aren't any witches now ;)

~~~
ncmncm
> " _Are you denying ..._ "

No.

It is hard to understand what you are arguing. Are you criticizing the
comparison because it is not apt, or because it is?

In the mid-20th century, there really were communist moles in governments;
just not as many as were claimed, and mostly not the ones accused. The craze
to root them out mainly swept up, and blighted the lives and careers, of
innocents.

There really were individuals who would supply poisons, but the overwhelming
majority of those hung for witchcraft were women who owned property the Church
wanted.

The people who take advantage of Q will not be rooting out actual offenders,
and any of those who are in positions of authority can use Q to divert
attention from themselves.

I suspect, but cannot support, that obsession with witchcraft arose only
after, and largely because, the supply of heretics dried up.

~~~
core-questions
> It is hard to understand what you are arguing.

Well, you appear to be drawing a false equivalence between pedos and
communists (real, proven) and witches (not real, unless you believe in magic).

~~~
ncmncm
There is a very real equivalence in people promoting hysteria about pedos,
communists, and witches, completely independently of their expressed targets'
existence. Are there actual pederasts and human traffickers? Yes. Do you
imagine they are the individuals the Q enthusiasts accuse? I doubt.

~~~
core-questions
> Are there actual pederasts and human traffickers? Yes. Do you imagine they
> are the individuals the Q enthusiasts accuse?

Who do they accuse whom you think has a really solid excuse? Some
demonstration of a false or plausibly-false accusation would be nice.

~~~
ncmncm
As always in such cases, they will accuse anyone they don't like. Being
disliked by demogogues is not probable cause.

------
mikece
QAnon is as much of a treat as Emmanuel Goldstein was to the Ministry of
Truth.

------
waterheater
So they're admitting that QAnon is to be taken seriously? That it's not fake?

~~~
Rebelgecko
Just because something is to be taken seriously doesn't mean it's "real". For
example, the US took the cult of Jim Jones seriously (and this was shown to be
warranted when Congressman Ryan was assassinated). However, that's orthogonal
to the accuracy of the cult's beliefs-- taking Jim Jones seriously doesn't
actually mean he was a prophet or Messiah. What made him dangerous was that
his adherents _believed_ he was.

Just like how the Comet Pizza conspiracy theory should be taken seriously even
though it's kinda silly- it becomes dangerous when people start shooting up
restaurants looking for non-existent children in a non-existent dungeon

~~~
waterheater
But that's the weird thing about calling QAnon a conspiracy theory: we label
something as a "conspiracy theory" when it's presumed to be based on
information which is...hmm, untrue? Hard to pin it down.

Jim Jones was not a conspiracy theory. It was a real belief system. By
admitting the existence of the beliefs, we don't automatically recognize
correctness. So why should QAnon be flat out labeled as a conspiracy theory
when its existence as real as Jim Jones?

------
bzb3
>Qanon is going mainstream and that’s bad.

Is it? My completely uninformed impression was that it was dying.

~~~
eihli
"Identical shares (3%) of conservative Republicans and moderate and liberal
Republicans have heard or read a lot about the conspiracy theories."

[https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/03/30/qanons-
cons...](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/03/30/qanons-conspiracy-
theories-have-seeped-into-u-s-politics-but-most-dont-know-what-it-is/)

How many of those 3% who have heard or read a lot about it actually believe it
is hard to estimate.

I have family that are fervent believers so this hits close to home.

If you've heard or read a lot about it, it's either because you believe it or
are personally invested in it (I presume most likely due to having
relationships with people who believe it).

Take a rough slice and say 10% of those people who have heard or read a lot
about it are believers and the other 90% are their friends and family.

Sooo... 55 million registered republicans; Guesstimate 50% of those are
considered "conservative" republicans by the terminology of the Pew poll; 3%
of those have heard a lot about Q; 10% of those are believers. 55 * 0.5 * 0.03
* 0.1 and that's ~800,000 Q followers.

Is 800,000 mainstream for a conspiracy theory? I wonder how many people
believe the earth is flat.

~~~
jakeogh
The last thing you mentioned, if you made a list of it's uses, here for
example... what would you find?

Consider the possibility that it's not designed to convince you earth is flat.

------
core-questions
Qanon is silly. It's basically "Plan Trusting", i.e. the idea is that Trump
et. al. have a grandiose plan that will not be revealed that will clean all
the bad people out and put good people in; it's wishful thinking to an
extreme, and it's backed up with Nostradamus-style non-falsifiable predictions
that get rationalized after the fact.

It's harmless. It's a distraction. It's not a threat to anyone - if anything
it takes people who could potentially be activists and redirects them into
inaction.

Antifa is a much bigger, more real, more visible threat to national security.
Where's the Vice article calling them out?

------
jakeogh
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23904590](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23904590)

