
Scythe, the most-hyped board game of 2016, delivers - Tomte
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/07/scythe-the-most-hyped-board-game-of-2016-delivers/
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scottdevries
This is one of those games that looks complicated until you start playing. I
was one of the Kickstarter backers, and was a bit unsure of the suitability of
the game for casual play.

After 22 plays and counting with many different people, I can safely say that
this isn't too hard to grasp. Essentially, your turn boils down to picking 1
of 4 (or 5) different actions, over and over again. Compared to Terra Mystica,
this game is much easier to learn.

If you want a succinct rules explanation, Rodney from Watch it Played has a
great tutorial:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffMLIL5qGQg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffMLIL5qGQg)

I will add that Jamey, the designer, has perfected the Kickstarter process for
board gaming. He has a book and tons of free articles on his site - I'm a fan
of his book here:
[http://stonemaiergames.com/kickstarter/book/](http://stonemaiergames.com/kickstarter/book/)

~~~
seanwilson
> This is one of those games that looks complicated until you start playing. I
> was one of the Kickstarter backers, and was a bit unsure of the suitability
> of the game for casual play.

I watched the tutorial video and felt completely overwhelmed less than 5
minutes in! Is it really that easy to play? The tutorial almost felt like it
was reading out game logic source code at points. It feels like it's at the
level of complexity where it should be a computer game with a computer
dictating and enforcing the rules but I can understand the appeal of wanting
to play around a table.

~~~
failrate
What board or card games do you currently play?

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seanwilson
Very few. When I've played games like poker and Monopoly I've seen new players
struggle with the (relatively simple) rules so I was comparing this game to
those.

~~~
failrate
Monopoly is rather complex for the relatively small dose of fun it provides.
Poker is quite simple in its base form, so I'm not sure what to tell you
there. Codenames is quite good and is available from Target. Love Letter is a
modern classic of tight, simple design. These are two examples of what I would
consider gateway games for people who have only ever heard of Monopoly or
Trivial Pursuit.

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dkns
Fun fact: on one of the art pictures you can see bear with satchel on his side
that says 'Wojtek'. It's a reference to real bear named Wojtek that served
during WW2 in Polish army:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wojtek_(bear)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wojtek_\(bear\))

~~~
jonah
From that link:

"He is now referenced in the new Hearts of Iron IV game, as an easter egg
achievement, Bearer of Artillery."

[http://www.hoi4wiki.com/Achievements](http://www.hoi4wiki.com/Achievements)

Looks like someone could update the article to include Scythe now.

~~~
ZeljkoS
I just did.

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ben_jones
Can someone explain to me why it needed to raise $1.8 Million dollars via
Kickstarter? Does that cover production costs as well as development time?

Wouldn't it be more fair to consumers if only development cost was covered by
the kickstarter and then production costs were covered by actual pre-orders?

~~~
dogma1138
Why are people downvoting this? This is a honest question, they had multiple
tiers with some pretty damn silly stretch goals, or at least it can be
considered a stretch as far as the actual costs go.

Kickstarter backers are getting the game now, for the rest of us we can
preorder it for 48 GBP in the UK[1], on average each backer payed 104$ into
the campaign, non backers can get a copy of the game now for 63$ (only 4$ more
than the cheapest get a copy of the game option on kickstarter).

It's not that surprising that some people question what the money is actually
being spent on during those KS campaigns, and with how many of them fail all
the time due to mismanagement not to mention being potentially fraud cases to
begin with I think it's a question worth asking.

I also think it's about time that Kickstarter forces companies to be more open
and transparent about how they spend the money, Kickstarter already takes
power from consumers because they become effectively investors but without any
of the perks that come with being a shareholder and it just might be the time
we get some of that power back.

[1][https://www.theboardgamehut.co.uk/preorders/116-scythe-
preor...](https://www.theboardgamehut.co.uk/preorders/116-scythe-
preorder.html)

~~~
chrisseaton
> Kickstarter already takes power from consumers ... it just might be the time
> we get some of that power back

They're not taking anything from anyone. If you don't like it don't use it.
You're using really alarmist language to talk about a website people go to
voluntarily. It's not food and water. It's board games. Why do you care how
other people chose to use their money?

~~~
dogma1138
I'm not using an alarmist language.

Kickstarter and the rest of the crowd source services mix customers and
investors into a mishmash that effectively strips you from the rights and
privileges of either. You do not receive the rights and benefits of being an
investor nor do you enjoy the guaranteed buyer protection as you would as a
consumer buying a product.

And while you can try and hide behind the "it's a choice" argument this
doesn't pass the simple smell test. Launching a product via crowdfunding is
now cheaper and less risky than launching a product through normal means, like
some one else have mentioned in this thread, there are too many companies that
use it as a marketing and pre-order platform instead of what it originally was
meant to be - a place to get funding for projects that would not be able to be
funded through normal means. If this trend continues and everything moves to
kickstarter like platforms you as a consumer suffer, you lose the rights and
benefits that consumer protection laws provide, while still paying the same
price and sometimes even a premium.

I don't care what people do with their money, I care about trends that could
have a negative impact on myself or society now or in the future. For me this
is no different than the twitter, google, or facebook "censorship" debate, you
can claim these are private services and they can do what they want. I see it
from a different perspective, in my eyes when you reach a certain market
position you no longer can hide behind "I'm just a company I can do what I
want" and you must respect the neutrality of information and the freedom of
speech for everyone.

~~~
lmm
> I'm not using an alarmist language.

Yes you are.

> nor do you enjoy the guaranteed buyer protection as you would as a consumer
> buying a product.

Is this actually true? I mean when you order a product you pay for a contract,
it's possible the company will not deliver and go bankrupt - isn't that
exactly the same situation as when you order via Kickstarter?

> there are too many companies that use it as a marketing and pre-order
> platform instead of what it originally was meant to be - a place to get
> funding for projects that would not be able to be funded through normal
> means.

A lot of websites end up being used for something different from what they
were originally intended for. Heck, the Internet itself was intended for quite
different purposes than those it serves today. Who cares?

> If this trend continues and everything moves to kickstarter like platforms
> you as a consumer suffer, you lose the rights and benefits that consumer
> protection laws provide, while still paying the same price and sometimes
> even a premium.

In a competitive marketplace there is no anti-free-lunch. No-one is getting
rich off board gaming. Rather, more and better board games are being created.
Customers aren't being stupid, they're accepting the risks because they're
worth it.

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forgotpwtomain
I watched half a play-through, someone may point out something I didn't notice
- but it looks fairly uninspiring. The two players playing hardly interacted
(it didn't seem what one player was doing had that interesting of an impact on
another players strategy), further it seems like the common-case where there
are one or two optimal strategies that you derive after a couple playthroughs
and after which there are not enough dynamic elements add much novelty.

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onnimonni
It looks like it has same kind of mechanics as Eclipse[1] and Game of
thrones[2]. I have really enjoyed those two and I hope scythe isn't too
similiar.

Can someone compare scythe for these two?

[1]:
[https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/72125/eclipse](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/72125/eclipse)

[2]: [https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/103343/game-thrones-
boar...](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/103343/game-thrones-board-game-
second-edition)

~~~
orf
I can't talk for Eclipse or Scythe, but we brought the Game of Thrones game
and it was pretty terrible. It seemed needlessly complicated and just wasn't
that fun.

I hope Scythe isn't like that at all.

~~~
1123581321
It is nothing like Game of Thrones. The person who made the comparison was
probably just thinking of how you can choose order tokens to place, but
Scythe's choices are simpler and more dynamic, and in other aspects of the
game, it is quite different.

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EtienneK
The big question is: Is it better than Terra Mystica (the game the designer
kept referencing as its inspiration)?

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petewailes
Short answer: no (but I'm a big TM fan)

Long answer: Terra Mystica works precisely because it doesn't have combat.
It's about gaining points to win, and to do that you have to do other things,
each with their own costs and cost centers. It works because it's about
management of what you've got, when you play what actions, and taking
advantage of the strengths of your particular peoples.

Scythe by comparison is very beautifully produced, and overall it's a good
game, but not a truly excellent one. It's just not at the same level as
something like TM or Kemet, for something else similar.

My main gripe with it is that too much of the game is dictated at the start.
It'd be like playing chess with the first 5 moves dictated to both sides.

TM has a similar setup in that it's a static starting map, with factions that
have static benefits, but the map starts changing fast because of what's
available with bonus cards each turn, what can go where (or not), so you have
to improvise. There's no real benefit to improvising on Scythe - indeed it's
generally going to make things go worse for you. You're sort of railroaded
into a certain way of playing.

Overall I'd give it a 7.5/10

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XaspR8d
After the stunning success of Pandemic: Legacy, I would have said SeaFall is
the most-hyped game of 2016, but hype is subjective.

Scythe does a really great job of blending euro-style resource mechanics
within a strong amero-style theme/board. And I totally agree with everyone;
it's not as complicated as it looks. That said, I wouldn't recommend it if
you're new to modern board games. There are a ton of games with similar levels
of fun and strategy that are more accessible...

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richie5um
Can you recommend some suitable games for a beginner please?

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hashkb
Settlers of Catan was my first modern board game and will always have a
special place in my heart Carcassonne is pretty easy and fun too.

Edit: My phone corrected "Catan" to "Satan"

~~~
ghaff
Carcassonne has a nice iPad implementation as well. (As does Settlers--though
it's a bit more complex and I find it's Carcassonne I come back to more
regularly.)

~~~
cpeterso
I agree Carcassonne is a great gateway game. The basic rules are
straightforward but there is some deeper strategy. There are also quite a few
expansions that can add even more depth in different dimensions, so you can
expand the game to your tastes.

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fleetfox
I really like the art, reminds of Simon Stålenhag.

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RIMR
The box says 1-5 players. Is there really a single-player mode for this game?

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preordained
Ditto on that. Anyone?

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cmdrfred
The article says yes.

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zeroer
Looks complicated.

~~~
markild
I find that, disappointingly, it often takes a complicated game mechanism for
the game to keep being interesting over multiple play througs.

There are several games that are not too complicated, that also has a charm,
but necessarily, more complicated mechanism makes for more variable play.

~~~
oblio
This is not always true. Chess and go don't have complicated game mechanics
and they still have high replayability.

For more modern games, Smallworld
([https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/40692/small-
world](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/40692/small-world)) is a great
example for high replayability and relatively simple game mechanics.

~~~
VLM
The rulebook for chess and go is zillions of published books on pattern
matching and book openings and book responses. To play at a high level you
have to memorize and perfectly apply uncountable zillions of rules and
patterns or you'll just be destroyed by someone who's memorized more rules. If
you don't know all the chess book openings and you play against someone who
does know them, you may as well just save everyone some time and immediately
resign. Much like MtG, how much time and money are you willing to spend to
win? This turned me off from the whole genre of "memorize and pattern match"
games, I just don't find that to be recreational.

The pinnacle of large rulesets is RPG games, anyway. With the possible
exception of some 80s classics like squad leader and starfleet battles there
are no rulebooks that compare in size to the foot or so linear shelf space of
a full set of Pathfinder rulebooks.

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kqr
So what is it you're really asking for? A game where even a beginner can beat
a long-time fan, yet one that is interesting? I think those goals are
conflicting unless we're talking pure gambling.

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MichaelGG
A game that was basically an IQ test might work as well. Like having to solve
those abstract pattern matching or 3D-to-2D geometry questions. Maybe. I'd
guess there's some slight advantage to having answered many of such questions,
but I doubt it is nearly as big a difference as, say, studying Chess or Go.

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Giorgi
Hate games that are over-complicated, with book for rules that requires
calculators, games supposed to be fun not chores.

I see this is ad for Scythe. but still.

~~~
jmilloy
Sounds like you like some games others won't, and others will like some games
you don't. Surprise surprise.

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colmvp
Indeed.

If you are a board game enthusiast, chances are you'll eventually get bored
with basic rules and want something more complicated that allows for
interesting game mechanism or complex decisions. If you look at Board Game
Geeks top games, a lot of them have a high complexity rating.

~~~
threatofrain
I'd note that sometimes complexity comes from surprisingly simple rules, like
with Go or Chess. Next to Terra Mystica, Go or Chess might appear simple.

