

Open letter to the Mac/iOS dev community regarding conduct - phwd
http://wildchocolate.tumblr.com/post/12555879965/a-letter-to-the-developer-community

======
alex_c
>maybe the Mac community doesn’t want people like me to be comfortable?
Perhaps they would rather keep this a boy’s club forever, and it’s simply
irritating when people like me disrupt that.

I find this kind of generalization or assumption pretty much as distasteful as
the author found the presentation.

~~~
king_jester
The full line from that quote you pulled is:

> However, what this experience and other similar encounters I have had in the
> last three years as a Mac developer have started to suggest is, maybe the
> Mac community doesn’t want people like me to be comfortable.

The author of the post isn't implying that this singular incident leads to the
conclusion that the Mac community is a boy's club. Rather, a series of
experiences had while working in the Mac community leads the author to that
feeling.

It's been my experience working in computer and programming communities in
general that there is a huge blind spot for privilege among members of those
communities, esp. given how many professional programmers are white,
cisgendered men. The author is stating that her experience has show there to
be a problem in the way professionalism and gender is approached by the Mac
community, and its up to those of us that do have a lot of privilege to
listen, take a step back, and think about that person's experience and examine
our role in that community.

~~~
scott_s
I had to look this up: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender>

------
jonhendry
I wish posts like that would just name names. It would have made it easier to
figure out what, exactly transpired. Having looked at the slides, and Daniel
Jalkut's post linked elsewhere, it appears to be tame double-entendre humor
that wouldn't be out of place on NPR.

I'm inclined to be on the complainant's side, but the complaint makes it seem
much worse than it appears to have actually been.

I'm left thinking the woman involved went to a session that gave every
indication of being very slightly off-color, and was shocked and offended that
it was.

------
paxswill
This isn't just a Mac/iOS community problem, as evidenced by a post like this
popping up every week or two. It's a programming/hacker community problem.

~~~
rb2k_
I'm not 100% sure, but I think that this kind of stuff also happens in most
other communities? At least I've met a few people in the banking community
that had their fair amount of crude jokes.

~~~
ender7
No offense to the banking...actually, you know what, fuck those guys. I'm sure
there are a lot of nice people working there (I have two friends who do so),
but the average level of juvenile bro-tude and that passes for normal behavior
among young ibankers is embarrassing. We are better than that.

~~~
eropple
Apparently we're not.

But we should be.

------
siavosh
I had the same experience when watching the Startup School video on the office
hours when there was an innocent comment by PG regarding the mic and the
female founders, and the whole audience laughed. I felt embarrassed at the
immaturity of the audience and how much this was normal behavior for
engineers. I think the whole cs/hacker field needs to reach for higher
standards of professionalism.

~~~
getsat
What was the actual comment/context?

------
snorkel
I'm surprised the leading providers of mobile fart noise applications would be
so immature.

------
FuzzyDunlop
While the description of the conference from the author's perspective
certainly shows a stark lack of professionalism, it seems to be quite a jump
to then attribute it to a lack of diversity in the field.

That lack of professionalism can't or shouldn't be defended, but neither can
the hypocrisy in the post about it. For a thinly veiled post about sexism and
male dominance in an industry, the author makes no effort to avoid making some
sexist remarks of her own (as highlighted by alex_c[0]).

At risk of going off on a tangent, diversity _is_ a good thing. Discrimination
isn't. By extension, _positive_ discrimination isn't a good thing. And the
sooner everyone realises that the solution to the issue of poor diversity
isn't even more discrimination, the better.

This in its simplest form means not using your own race, gender, religion, age
etc. to make a point in favour of your own demographic, and also not allowing
other people to do the same against you. Because real diversity is when none
of that actually matters.

I have a slight feeling this may not be a popular point of view, but I find
some of the popular thinking to be rather illogical. But the author makes a
good point when taken solely on the merits of professionalism.

[0] <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3217306>

~~~
jonhendry
"it seems to be quite a jump to then attribute it to a lack of diversity in
the field."

Oh? What would you attribute it to?

It's quite likely that it _is_ because of a lack of women. Some immature
people get accustomed to working in a boy's club environment, and don't grow
up, don't know how to act professionally.

Note that you're making the error of assuming that attributing the cause to
lack of diversity implies some kind of quota system to remedy the lack of
diversity.

More women would be great. Better would be for immature developers to grow up.

~~~
FuzzyDunlop
Is it not a quota system that's typically used to remedy the lack of
diversity? In the UK it hasn't been uncommon to do this quite openly as if
it's a good thing. Territorial Army posters used to say they would only
consider women and minorities for application.

At best attributing it to diversity and playing the sex card oversimplifies
things such as the individual's upbringing and his personality. People are all
different, so I find it unfair to say that this is not the product of a person
being a person, but a person who works in a male dominated environment.

Is the implication thus that an industry needs more women for it to be more
mature? That without diversity men (note how the article emphasises this is a
male problem) will resort to making dick jokes and chatting about celebrities
they'd bang all the time? And how is that implication any less offensive than
the lack of professionalism the speaker exhibited?

So to answer the question, I attribute this not to diversity or anything such,
but to an individual who was, as you've said, immature. He alone does not make
the entire development community immature, nor is he exemplary of a male
dominated profession.

------
sp332
Not defending the inappropriate nature of the talk, but these doesn't look
like "boy's club" kind of jokes. I mean "autorelease" and
"NSInsertionPosition" don't seem like they're demeaning to women somehow. I
think men and women are equally likely to be offended by this?

~~~
scott_s
Sexual jokes are naturally divisive if the crowd is gender imbalanced.

It's not an issue of being demeaning. It's an issue of people from a minority
group being very uncomfortable when the majority is talking as if they're not
there.

~~~
sp332
You mean that guys don't usually tell these jokes when women are around, and
therefore just the fact that a guy told this joke was dismissive of the women
in attendance?

If so, would the exact same jokes be dismissive of men, if the gender of the
speaker and audience were reversed? Or is there something about the jokes
which have an anti-women bias?

~~~
scott_s
It's not necessarily being dismissive, it's just going to be uncomfortable for
some of the people in the audience. Let's assume the audience is mostly
heterosexual males. So a women or homosexual male would be a minority. A woman
or homosexual male may not want to be part of a discussion that involves sex
when around a group of heterosexual men they do not know. They're not offended
by the jokes, it's just that there is now an implied topic that they don't
want to discuss with these people.

~~~
sp332
If it was the same audience, same content, but a woman presenter, do you think
more of the men in the audience would be uncomfortable? Do you think the women
in the audience would feel somewhat more comfortable?

To be more specific, do you think this talk could fairly be interpreted as:
_maybe the Mac community doesn’t want people like me to be comfortable?
Perhaps they would rather keep this a boy’s club forever, and it’s simply
irritating when people like me disrupt that._ Because I think that's a pretty
unfair thing to accuse the presenter of.

~~~
scott_s
Again, I don't think that's the main issue. The main issue is bringing up an
unnecessary topic that a minority will be uncomfortable about given the rest
of the audience. The divisiveness, the feeling of "I don't feel welcome here"
is a result of that. Whether or not the presenter intended that to be the case
is not the question.

~~~
sp332
Whether the speaker intended it is _exactly_ what she's wondering in that
quote.

Also, being a heterosexual guy, I would have avoided or walked out of this
talk anyway. So I guess I'm just having a hard time telling how much that
feeling would change if I were a "minority", because apparently I would have
the same reaction either way.

------
bgramer
I had to copy/paste because it was too hard to read in dark reversed style of
the blog's design. Here it is so you can read.

"A Letter to the Developer Community

Dear Mac/iOS Developer Community,

Empathy is the ability to put yourself in someone else’s shoes who may be
different from yourself and attempt to understand/have compassion towards that
person’s feelings, especially if their feelings are different from your own.
If you do not consider yourself to be a particularly empathetic person,
there’s no need to read any further.

I attended a Mac developer conference recently and overall had a great
experience. I had the opportunity to meet and get to know many great
developers while learning a few things too. Unfortunately, I left with a bit
of a bad taste in my mouth. This feeling I attribute to a lack of conduct
standards, and a failure by many of us to understand the changes in the
industry that have been occurring, like it or not, over the years.

Here is what happened. I sat down to listen to a talk that I could tell by the
title of the talk, was going to be inappropriate. I thought to myself, I’m at
a respectful Mac conference, the organizer is walking around in a suit and
conducting himself very professionally, I’m sure it will be ok. This was, in
fact, a poor assumption. The speaker prefaced his talk by basically stating
there was a little substance, but that most of the topics were being presented
simply because of the sexual or otherwise inappropriate jokes that could be
formed from the topics. For instance, jokes that can be made about
“autoreleasing”. I’ll let you think about that for a second and you basically
understand how this went. About ten minutes in, I was thoroughly disappointed
in the immaturity and inappropriateness and walked out of the room. As others
informed me later, it did not get any better. There were tidbits of
information weaved in, but the overarching theme remained the same.

Sadly, this was not the only offensive point in the week. The highly respected
keynote speaker managed to weave in a reference to a female celebrity’s tits
and ass in his discussion, which I found awfully distasteful.

Now, I know that being one of the handful of women in attendance at the
conference, I am in a serious minority in terms of the way I experience and
react to things such as this. I also know that it’s quite possible that others
would not be offended as they may have the same, in my opinion immature, sense
of humor. Yet, in discussing with others, including members of my team, I
found that I was not alone in finding these references uncomfortable.

Why is it that an inappropriate talk would even be permitted on a stage at any
respectable conference? How does this in any way further the advancement of
the software industry at large, and the Mac community especially? In my
opinion, it sets us back quite a bit. During one of the much more informative
and respectable talks of the week, the topic of diversity was brought up. The
speaker pointed out the fact that the Mac community is full of mostly men from
an educated and higher income background. The context was in discussion of how
we tend to gravitate towards like minded people. And in fact, it’s impossible
to argue that this is a truly diverse field by any means because women and
minorities are grossly underrepresented as I’m sure you know.

However, what this experience and other similar encounters I have had in the
last three years as a Mac developer have started to suggest is, maybe the Mac
community doesn’t want people like me to be comfortable? Perhaps they would
rather keep this a boy’s club forever, and it’s simply irritating when people
like me disrupt that.

Wow, does that thought scare me. Coming from a different industry where
diversity is praised and encouraged, could it be that software developers want
the exact opposite? Clearly not all of us. But, perhaps some of the organizers
of this particular conference gravitate toward that mindset.

The Mac development community has changed a lot over the years. There are new
iOS consulting companies popping up all the time. Macs are in more homes than
ever before in history. Mac developers are hiring business partners, even
donning suits sometimes, and prancing into major corporations to work on
exciting applications. It’s a new world, folks. And as a result, there will
likely be growing pains.

All I ask is this…

First, if you are in a position where you can control the conduct and
standards at a software event that is intended to be in any way professional,
you are therefore obligated to do so. Or at least warn people who may be
attending otherwise, so we may steer clear.

Second, before you start to defend this kind of inappropriate behavior in a
professional setting, think about how you would feel if I were your daughter
or your sister. I’m not against inappropriate humor by any means, I just think
there’s a time and a place. This was not it.

Do we want the Mac community to be a place where anyone, regardless of gender,
race, religion, etc. feels uncomfortable?

Diversity is great. It shows that our field is growing up. But diversity can
only happen with acceptance, tolerance, and the ability to empathize with
those who may feel uncomfortable, even if you yourself do not. I sincerely
hope that at future Mac community events, I will not be similarly offended.

Thank you to the wonderful guys who provided support and feedback in
preparation for this article. It’s nice to know we have some gentlemen out
there in the Mac community!

Sincerely,

Brit

Update: After getting in touch with the conference organizers, I have a lot of
hope regarding this issue. They were very concerned, apologetic, and
acknowledged that this should not happen at a professional event. Thank you!

~~~
parfe
In Firefox you can go to View -> Page Style -> No Style.

------
ryandvm
The world would be a better place if people spent less time figuring out ways
to be offended.

~~~
weeksie
Let me guess, you're white and male? Me too, and for a long time I thought to
myself "Gee, I can't believe people get offended at stuff like that." Then
after a bit, I really put myself into other people's shoes. How would you feel
if your credentials were constantly being second-guessed just because of how
you looked, talked, or your gender?

The thing is, as white (or white-looking arab or jewish) dudes, we _never_
have to run into that. The closest I ever came was immigrating to a different
country and constantly getting singled out over my accent — so much so that I
changed it.

~~~
sneak
I'm white and male and live somewhere I can't speak the native language very
well. I'm singled out all the time.

I agree with the parent post - people should stop trying so hard to be
offended about stuff. Being singled out or second-guessed doesn't harm one.

~~~
ljf
but the singled out that you will get as being white and male aboard is very
different to that that most others, who are female and black for example,
experiance. the fact you see both types of 'otherness' as being the same
speaks more of the hegemony of your viewpoint.

------
JulianMiller520
I agree with you entirely but found your use of the terms "tits and ass" a bit
jarring given your topic. I’m assuming it’s an attribution but was unable to
glean that directly from the text. You may want to include quotation marks so
we know who’s speaking, lest we find your post as offensive as the conference
you are mentioning. "Auto-releasing" is offensive when double entendre is
applied, "tits and ass" need no further implications.

------
jarjoura
I am curious what conference and also what session this was?! Word of advice
to anyone reading these comments, when presenting, ALWAYS take the moral high
ground. People are easily offended period, and for all sorts of reasons you
may not care about. The last thing the developer community needs is to offend
people. We're all here to make the future a better place to live in, so lets
act like we care too.

~~~
enra
I'm not supporting this kind of behavior, but I think least think any
community needs is to be too scared about offending people.

Like others have commented, author makes pretty _offensive_ generalizations of
the whole community and people in it, which I think is even worse and untrue,
than some guy having an offending talk.

------
thoradam
I'd understand this post if it were just a cry for more professionalism, which
is welcomed, but how can sexual innuendo be construed to slight women in
particular? Because the speaker mentioned breasts? Is this the '50s?

------
protomyth
Is there any specific information on what conference this was and who were the
speakers mentioned? I find it hard to gauge what I should think based on no
information.

------
dreamdu5t
One speaker at a developer conference does not represent the community. If
anything it reflects the organizer's choice of speakers.

------
fbuilesv
Am I experiencing some bug here or is the author of this really expecting us
to read something like this: <http://cl.ly/0Q1b0i2t191F0R2L0B0t> ?

~~~
Aramgutang
This is what I see (Firefox on left, Chrome on right):
<http://i.imgur.com/RBs0E.png>

Not sure if she's changed the style since you visited, but it's quite
readable. I was tempted to put it down to me using a dark theme in KDE, but
Chrome, unlike Firefox, doesn't inherit the OS default colours for web pages.

------
luigi
As the number of developer conferences increases for a given technology, the
probability of a sexually inappropriate talk approaches 1.

------
spaznode
We wouldn't be having this discussion on the Internet if it weren't for our
love of "tits and ass".

Why are we acting so prudish about sexuality? I know my wife wouldn't care
about a reference to celebrity t&a. What kind of girls do take offense? I'll
tell you what kind, ugly girls. Had to be said.

------
maw
Some empathy for those of us who don't like reading grey text over a black
background wouldn't go astray.

------
fleitz
Who the fuck goes to a talk titled: "The Ten Dirty Words and How To Use Them."
and is surprised that there are jokes of an offensive nature? It basically
screams this talk is going to be unprofessional.

Exactly what could the presenter have done to more fully communicate the
nature of the talk? Put up a green first slide that says "This talk is rated
"O" for offensive by the Tech Conference Association of America."?

~~~
spaznode
Fuckin god damn right. Use some common sense m-fers. ;)

------
zyb09
Well some people say if you are getting offended by "inappropriate" jokes
that's basically your problem, not the problem of the majority of people there
having fun. After all its just jokes, as in having humour. At a developer
conference you shouldn't be so critical about it.

~~~
georgieporgie
_Well some people say if you are getting offended by "inappropriate" jokes
that's basically your problem, not the problem of the majority of people there
having fun._

Do you honestly not see any problem with that line of thought? I'm curious,
how old are you?

~~~
dextorious
I'm 35 and I honestly don't see any problem with that line of thought. But
then again, I'm not a WASP, and I'm not into political correctness either.

~~~
georgieporgie
You seem to be employing exactly the same line of thinking that is used by
people to justify harassment of all sorts. It's fundamentally selfish and
entitled. I see that you're going to deploy the "political correctness"
strawman, though, so I don't think I'll make any headway here.

~~~
dextorious
"""You seem to be employing exactly the same line of thinking that is used by
people to justify harassment of all sorts. It's fundamentally selfish and
entitled. """

No, forbidding people to make jokes because some tiny minority might find it
offensive is "fundamentally selfish and entitled". Forbidding people to make
jokes because _you_ feel offended by them, even more so.

And, btw, you failed to even define what that "line of thinking" is, you just
accused me of "employing" it.

"""I see that you're going to deploy the "political correctness" strawman,
though, so I don't think I'll make any headway here."""

What is this, your personal Godwin's law? Since when "political correctness",
especially in a situation where it exactly applies, is a "strawman"?

It's true though, you won't make any headway here. Not with this kind of crap
arguments.

~~~
georgieporgie
_No, forbidding people to make jokes because some tiny minority might find it
offensive is "fundamentally selfish and entitled"._

No, it's professionalism, consideration, and standards of behavior.

 _you failed to even define what that "line of thinking" is, you just accused
me of "employing" it._

You explained your line of thinking pretty well:

 _Well some people say if you are getting offended by "inappropriate" jokes
that's basically your problem, not the problem of the majority of people there
having fun_

 _What is this, your personal Godwin's law? Since when "political
correctness", especially in a situation where it exactly applies, is a
"strawman"?_

Because there is nothing here about political correctness. This is about
professionalism, consideration, and maturity. Additionally, the term
"politically correct" is used as a pejorative these days, so it's of little
value.

 _Not with this kind of crap arguments._

Please take your attitude back to Reddit.

~~~
dextorious
Professionalism, and standards of behavior and maturity?

Isn't that the exact same reasons given by pointy haired managers against
wearing jeans at work?

That is not professionalism, that is giving the appearance of a "professional"
to people who don't know any better.

Professionalism lies in being honest with your clients, delivering, and
keeping the standards of quality of _your trade_ (IT in our case), not of the
jokes you tell.

And it's funny how, say, Star Wars jokes would have been totally fine with the
audience, but a reference to tits and the gates of hell open. Again,
"professionalism" is not what's under attack here, it's the prudes.

"""Because there is nothing here about political correctness. This is about
professionalism, consideration, and maturity."""

Are you under the impression that if you repeat a sentence two or more times,
you make it an argument? This is exactly what you wrote in your opening
paragraph, and you failed to give any justification.

So, I insist: this is all about "political correctness" --and the fact that
you invoke "consideration", " standards of behavior" and "maturity" only gives
this more credit. Isn't PC a set of "standards of behavior" that are all about
"consideration"?

As for the "Additionally, the term "politically correct" is used as a
pejorative these days, so it's of little value" argument, I can't even begin
to describe how lame it is.

"""Please take your attitude back to Reddit."""

I've never been a Reddit member, and I don't define myself as a HN member
either, it's just a page I read.

What are you, fifteen years old (mentally), to define yourself by some site
you frequent?

And you were ranting about "professionalism" earlier? Right.

------
tux1968
Open letter to open-letter writers. If you're not the kind of person who has
empathy for people with different tastes in humour, there's no need to write
anything further.

~~~
recoiledsnake
This was a Mac/iOS developer conference, not a adult standup comedy show in
Vegas.It's a conference meant to showcase different development methodologies
and paradigms, not awkward base humor.

~~~
tux1968
Indeed, but there is a place for fun even at serious conferences. Some of my
favourite talks at conferences have been filled with humour. Usually they're
informative at the same time, which the talk in question apparently lacked,
but such is life.

The actual point I was making was slightly different, but i'll leave it to the
reader to figure out what it was.

------
recoiledsnake
This trend needs to stop now. I guess this does not happen much in company-
based events where such behavior would be grounds for firing or a warning from
HR(or a ban from other company events for outsiders.) The open hacker
community needs to step up a little and not let things be too casual to a
fault. Diversity is very beneficial to the industry and if a speaker has to
resort to crass humor to attract or entertain attendees, that doesn't reflect
too well on their skills.

~~~
drcube
I supposed "diversity" doesn't include diverse standards of humor? "Let's not
offend anybody" is a losing game. Somebody WILL be offended, so my advice is
to ignore the offenderati and communicate your own way. People will listen or
not, but that's on them.

~~~
jarrett
The OP isn't saying "let's not offend anybody." She's asking conference
speakers and organizers to maintain a minimal level of professionalism and
respect as is standard in pretty much any other industry.

Dirty/sexist jokes in professional conferences do not count as "diverse
standards of humor." They just make our industry look immature and
unwelcoming.

~~~
dextorious
"""The OP isn't saying "let's not offend anybody." She's asking conference
speakers and organizers to maintain a minimal level of professionalism and
respect as is standard in pretty much any other industry."""

So basically make it as boring as an insurance convention...

~~~
cosgroveb
So not being sexist makes an industry boring? Maybe we need to throw in some
racism and make things even more edgy!

~~~
tzs
What slides from the presentation were sexist?

------
funkah
Daniel Jalkut has posted his own take on the situation [1].

I appreciate it, because whenever these situations pop up, they quickly
devolve into "tech is full of unprofessional assholes" versus "stop being such
a baby". He also provides some background for why the session was done that
way in the first place.

[1] <http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/2266/how-to-talk-dirty>

~~~
JonnieCache
Here are the slides from the talk:
[http://www.mactech.com/sites/default/files/Lee-
Ten_Dirty_Wor...](http://www.mactech.com/sites/default/files/Lee-
Ten_Dirty_Words_and_How_to_Use_Them.pdf)

Based on this more specific info, I don't actually think this is offensive at
all, and it's actually rather funny.

 _However,_ as with all jokes, it's how you tell 'em. I can imagine this all
being done in a family friendly way. I can also imagine it being delivered in
a wholly inappropriate drooling-pervert manner. We can't know unless we see a
video.

As jalkut says in the blogpost, the jokes write themselves. You could deliver
this entire talk in a deadpan manner, reading out all the "dirty words" as if
they're perfectly normal, and all the dirtyness is in the minds of the
audience. This is the beauty of innuendo and double entendre, it allows you to
be dirty without actually being dirty.

There is a long tradition of this on BBC radio going back to the 60s, where
_unbelievably, unutterably_ filthy things have been talked about at 6:30pm,
when children are having their dinner, via the potent medium of deadpan
innuendo. The key is that everything should have be able to be parsed
perfectly innocently, so if your children ask what it means you can tell them
with no embarrassment. There have been things said at dinner time in this
manner that would likely otherwise _never_ have been allowed to be broadcast,
at any time of day or night.

In this case however, based on the OP reaction, I think it's more likely that
the presenter was gurning his way through the talk, giving suggestive "LOL
DICKS!" messages through his speech mannerisms and body language. These were
likely the root cause of the uncomfortableness.

But as I say, all this is speculation without video of the session.

~~~
scott_s
I actually don't think they're funny. That's not code for "I think they are
inappropriate" (which at a developer's conference, I think they are
inappropriate), but rather I don't find them humorous. It's the kind of easy
humor people try for when they're not actually funny. I find listening to this
sort of thing painful because I feel sorry for the speaker - trying to be
funny, failing, and having to deal with it.

With that said, even if the speaker did as you said and was completely
deadpan, I would still think it's inappropriate. It's just not the appropriate
place to even attempt to make those references, no matter how you do it. Among
friends, I make and laugh at raunchy jokes. But professional environments
should be more inclusive than that.

This is what topical, appropriate and actually funny humor in a professional
setting looks like: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVp8UGjECt4>

~~~
jonhendry
It would probably have been appropriate to start off with a warning that the
content would deal in off-color double-entendres, giving attendees with
different sensibilities a few moments to leave and go to another session.

And maybe a warning in the program beyond the name of the session.

~~~
yummyfajitas
If only the author had some way of knowing she might be offended. Then this
whole incident might have been avoided!

Oh wait, never mind: "I sat down to listen to a talk that _I could tell by the
title of the talk_ , was going to be inappropriate. I thought to myself, I’m
at a respectful Mac conference... I’m sure it will be ok... _The speaker
prefaced his talk by basically stating there was a little substance, but that
most of the topics were being presented simply because of the sexual or
otherwise inappropriate jokes_ that could be formed from the topics..."

The author is being quite inconsistent here. On the one hand, she thought she
was at a "respectful Mac conference". On the other hand:

 _...this experience and other similar encounters I have had in the last three
years as a Mac developer..._

So even though she's previously been exposed to dirty jokes before at mac
events, she still thinks that "I’m at a respectful Mac conference...I’m sure
it will be ok."

~~~
jonhendry
In this case, it's just a little bit conceivable that the "dirty words" in the
session title could refer to "things to avoid", like over-releasing objects,
excess drawing, etc.

Or the "dirty words" might be private APIs, which like actual dirty words
would get your app rejected by Apple, but might be of interest to people
writing for jailbroken devices.

So in the case of this session's title, there are conceivable alternate
interpretations that a person might hope to be the case.

Thus, if a session is going to involve double entendres or ribald humor, it
would be best to indicate so in the conference materials, so that attendees
can best decide what to attend. (The problem with this would be if session
presenters _all_ wound up adding less-appropriate material)

------
hackermom
No need to freak out. Let people be people, and learn to just shrug your
shoulders once in a while.

~~~
kstenerud
Actually, that's just plain unprofessional behavior, and reflects poorly not
only on the speakers, but on the organizers as well. Though I hear the
organizers were equally concerned over what transpired, so I expect it was
naivety on the part of the organizers in their lack of firm communication that
professional conduct was a requirement in order to be a speaker at the event.

~~~
rimantas
Why should anything professional be sterile, humourless, polit-correct to the
point of being lifeless? Why is any mention of sexuality "inappropriate"? It
is so sad that we degnerate to primitive knee-jerk reaction—spekear mentions
anything sexuality related—I must by offended. WHY? We are _wired_ to pay
attention to this stuff, this is a reason why we are there and I really don't
get this trend to pretend we are all cold, sexless robots.

~~~
sp332
I'm not sexless. On the contrary, I'm physically uncomfortable in a room full
of people talking about sex. People like me are not a tiny minority, and so it
is considered counter-productive to inject unnecessary sexually-charged
content into a professional conference.

 _We are _wired_ to pay attention to this stuff_ Yes, it's a huge distraction
and again, counter-productive if you're trying to pay attention to anything
else.

I'm not saying that _you_ have to be offended. I'm telling you that _I_ am
uncomfortable here, please stop.

~~~
gojomo
I respect your discomfort. But if there is also a roomful of people who _want_
to talk about sex, who maybe even _enjoy_ the discomfort of sprinkling often-
taboo subjects into their discussion, can we as a community accommodate both
them, and people who are discomforted? Can we just go to separate rooms?

~~~
sp332
Sure, but it seems out of place at a tech conference, and I'm not sure it was
clear that this was for a subset of the community. In fact I think it was
pitched as a general survey of the API, so people seem to have confused it for
something the whole community is into, or stands for or something.

------
sneak
A conference I can't hear dick jokes at is a conference I don't want to
attend.

I'll just leave this here: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ISil7IHzxc>

~~~
georgieporgie
That's a great video (Frank Zappa on Crossfire, 1986), but first amendment
issues have absolutely nothing to do with standards of professional conduct at
a conference.

~~~
sneak
It's not the first amendment thing I posted it for - but for the part where he
points out that... "THEY'RE JUST WORDS."

Yes, words have meaning, and that meaning can change the world, but if someone
making dick jokes causes you to get hyper-uncomfortable, maybe you have some
personal sensitivity issues to work through before you start worrying about
the level of professionalism at a conference that you obviously don't want to
be at.

In short: "Yes Virginia, the world has dick jokes in it."

~~~
pyre
Other things that are _just a bunch of words_ :

\- Defamation

\- Slander

\- Sexual Harassment

\- Non-sexual Harassment

\- Yelling "fire" in a crowded theater

Someone wants to spread untrue rumors about you? Get over it! It's just a
bunch of words! Sticks and stones, man!

Someone wants to making constant sexual advances towards you? Get over it!
It's just a bunch of words! Sticks and stones, man!

Someone wants to make constant threats of violence against you? Get over it!
It's just a bunch of words! Sticks and stones, man!

The basic logic that you're using is that the perception is in the eye of the
beholder. If the beholder perceives something as bad, then they just need to
change their perception.

From the perspective of the individual struggling to deal with the world, it
may make sense to apply this logic to try and change perceptions to better
deal with the world. From the perspective of the world as a whole, it makes
less sense.

For example, a rape victim may wish to find some way to view the rape in a
less negative light in order to move on with their lives. Does this mean that
rape isn't bad, but just an issue with how the victim perceives it?

~~~
sneak
I don't think dick jokes are unprofessional. I think the fundamental divide
here is not "likes dick jokes"/"is made uncomfortable by dick jokes" but
instead "simply doesn't attend conferences they don't like"/"blogs about how
unprofessional conferences they don't like are".

Seriously, if you don't like the way a conference is run, vote with dollars
and go somewhere else. The rest of us who don't give a shit about things that
don't matter will be there instead.

