
Launch HN: SheerlyGenius (YC W18) – Indestructible Tights from Bulletproof Fiber - kathomuth
I’m Katherine Homuth and I founded Sheerly Genius - indestructible sheer tights made from bulletproof fibers. We just launched our product on Kickstarter (<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.2e.go2.fund&#x2F;tights" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.2e.go2.fund&#x2F;tights</a>).<p>Every year $8 billion dollars worth of sheer tights&#x2F;pantyhose end up in the landfill after only one or two wears. Ripping sheers is as easy as accidentally catching them on a fingernail, or simply pulling too hard while putting them on. Our goal is to replace these disposable products with Sheerly Genius, which has been tested to last up to 50 wears.<p>We have been working on this for about 12 months so far and it has been quite an adventure. When I started out I didn’t think we’d be developing our own fiber and machines, but that’s what it ultimately took.<p>The first fibers I looked at were aramids, like kevlar, which of course were attractive for their strength. To be considered sheer (as opposed to opaque), a pair of tights needs fibers that are 30 denier or less. Denier measures the thickness or fineness of a fiber. I quickly learned that the lowest denier kevlar came in was 1000 denier! So it was a non-starter.<p>It turned out that none of the fibers on the market today were both fine and strong enough to make an indestructible sheer product. Ultimately we had to develop our own fiber: a finer, colored version of the non-dyeable polyethylene fibers used in higher end bulletproof vests and climbing equipment. To use these fibers we had to retrofit circular knitting machines with new feeding systems and blades, because the fibers are so strong they break typical knitting machines!<p>My background is in software and manufacturing - building and selling two companies prior to Sheerly Genius. But this is my first journey into textiles. In my last startup I worked directly with many hardware companies, but became increasingly skeptical of the trend in IoT towards “connected” anything. One thing I love about this project is that we’ve been able to innovate in wearables without being connected.<p>Fun Fact: Half of our backers on Kickstarter so far have been men!<p>I’m looking forward to talking manufacturing, textiles, and crowdfunding. Can’t wait to hear your ideas and experiences in these areas. Also happy to answer any questions about our journey in developing the product so far!
======
dfitzpat
FYI: My neighbor developed something similar in the 70s. It was purchased by a
large pantyhose company for many millions with additional revenue promised
from royalties from future sales. As soon as they owned it they killed the
product to maintain their revenue stream from short-lived hose. The inventor
lost millions from sales that never happened. Don't let this happen to you. If
you are successful, they will come knocking.

~~~
erikig
I'm always looking for evidence of planned obsolescense [1] but I didn't
realize how effectively it has been implemented by "Big Pantyhose" and that
move to buy out and phase out a superior product - deviously brilliant!

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence)

~~~
rokhayakebe
I have another one for you: Google >> Aadvark

~~~
golem14
How is this a good example ? What's the quickly obsolete thing Google pushed
to effectively kill Aardvark ?

I'm with you that I'd like some better question answering service, but I don't
think it's fair to blame Google for not trying ...

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samstave
If this material does what you say: you should attack the cyclist market. If
you have thin, anti abrasion garments, a cyclist is yur perfect market.

They have luxury funds (like the golf market) and they want thin, but
protective, garments. (weekend-road-bikers are usually execs/professionals
that spend ~$3-12K on just their bikes...

Put thin, D30 [0], pads at key points/joints (hips/elbows/knees) between
layers of this fabric in small patches...

Now you have a performant, but protective, sheer/light competitive cycling
outfit...

[0] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D3o](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D3o)

~~~
kathomuth
That's a great market idea. Hadn't considered it, but can see a lot of overlap
with what we are doing. Will definitely keep it in mind for our product
roadmap!

~~~
annywhey
One more athletics market: martial arts. If you train judo/jiujitsu, your
existing uniform is a heavy cotton or cotton/poly weave that is built to last
through the abuse of training partners gripping and yanking it every which way
- and the existing stuff works, but it's bulky to carry and hard to wash. A
modernized uniform that can retain the same strength at a lighter weight would
be of practical interest.

~~~
matte_black
Do you train jiujitsu? I don’t really see existing uniforms being replaced
with something lighter and potentially much thinner.

------
salimmadjd
This is VERY cool. It took me into rabbit-hole of learning more about this
material vs. Kevlar -

Ultra-high-molecular-weight polyethylene (UHMWPE):
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-molecular-
weight_po...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-molecular-
weight_polyethylene)

Dyneema vs. Kevlar data: [http://bladebuster.ca/our-products/cut-resistant-
clothing/dy...](http://bladebuster.ca/our-products/cut-resistant-
clothing/dyneema-vs-kevla)

Dyneema vs. Kevlar and new fibers for military: www.army-
technology.com/features/feature98985/

Zylon that was used instead of Kevlar degraded due to body moisture:
[https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=473209...](https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4732098)

Spectra a polyethylene fiber from Honeywell:: [https://www.honeywell-
spectra.com/applications/textiles/](https://www.honeywell-
spectra.com/applications/textiles/)

UHMWPE used in ropes: www.novabraid.com/rope-material/spectra-fiber-rope/

~~~
dsr_
Friends use Dyneema and Spectra to make bowstrings (primarily for crossbows).
They don't mind getting wet, don't stretch, and are extremely strong.

~~~
exDM69
They do stretch a little over time. I have kite flying lines from Dyneema and
Spectra, and they stretch over time and need to be equalized (move the knots
so the lengths match).

But it's very little, I had about 2.5cm change in 25m over a few years. That's
1 part in 1000. This is from irregular kite flying, so not under (very) high
tension or constant stress.

Fantastic materials, nevertheless.

~~~
samstave
F U HACKER NEWS for finding the ONE guy who could have possibly answered this
question.

I love (f) U

------
bambax
This is really cool! (I too make non-connected things and it's great).

Two things:

> _Sheerly Genius sheers are patent pending and our manufacturing process is a
> trade secret._

Patents are the opposite of secret, ie public. You can't patent something and
have it secret at the same time. So your manufacturing process is either
secret, and not patented, or patented, and public. (Of course you may have
patented something other than the manufacturing process, like a specific knot,
etc.)

The second thing is, what about security? Things that never tear or break can
be dangerous, for example if you get caught by a moving vehicle, or other
problem. It may sound far-fetched and completely improbable... until it
happens. What are your thoughts about that?

~~~
kathomuth
Yes - you are right. That line in the video probably wouldn't have made it by
our patent lawyer. We are patent pending. Some elements of how our fiber is
produced (not in our patent), and some of the R&D things we are trying are
trade secret, but for the purposes of simplicity we are patent pending. The
fibers are strong but can be cut with a sharp knife or pointy object -
anything EMTs or emergency services would have on hand, or something like a
seat belt cutter wouldn't have an issue getting through them.

~~~
tropo
Aw darn. My first thought was protection from knife attacks.

If that worked, you could also sell to that company making the anti-rape
pants.

~~~
Hextinium
Yea but if you get incapacitated one of the first things they do to get to the
wound is cut the clothes around the wound area. If you have pants make of
knife proof material your life could be endangered.

~~~
rjsw
Some sports clothing is designed to be resistant to sharp edges [1]. The link
is for some ski basewear.

[1]
[http://www.energiapura.info/158/PANTA-34-ANTICUTTING](http://www.energiapura.info/158/PANTA-34-ANTICUTTING)

------
anna5280
I know sheer is in your company name, but please do some 40 deniers too.

Here in England sheers are for old ladies, teenagers, air hostesses and
conservative offices. 40 denier black are the universal tights - take a look
if you’re ever in London.

Ok they’re stronger than 20d, but they still hole far far too easily. I would
love 40 deniers with the strength you’re promising.

~~~
kathomuth
Thanks Anna!I totally agree. We're definitely going to be going there. We
wanted to start with sheers because that is where the problem is most
apparent, and where existing products last barely one wear. But I agree, 40d
pantyhose still rip - and need to be innovated as well!

------
aresant
That Kickstarter video's first 20 seconds are amazing - funny, informative,
and arresting.

Did you guys write and direct that in house?

EDIT - After watching the entire video - including you hanging from them like
a swing - I hope you are considering direct response TV as a marketing channel
for these. You nailed the informative / circus show balance and I bet you
could edit this into a 30 / 60 / 90.

~~~
kathomuth
Thank you! So glad you enjoyed the video. I wrote the script with the help of
a friend/investor, and we pulled together our friends to make it happen. Elias
of SoulFood productions did the camera magic -
[http://soulfoodproductions.com/](http://soulfoodproductions.com/).

We've always thought television shopping would be a great channel for this
product! And will definitely be cutting more versions of the video :)

~~~
tootie
Your video is the perfect balance of being professional enough to look good
and amateur enough to seem sincere. Everything was clear and to the point yet
nobody seemed like an actor. The reaction to the hanging scene at the end was
fantastic.

------
hannaha_b
So in love with this! As soon as my bf sent me the kickstarter video, I became
a funder.

I love all the women-focused specialty clothing we're getting in the past few
years, especially ones that use modern technology to improve our daily
lives/comfort (and not just make another bra that claims to be the last bra
you'll ever need but that actually still only fits one type of breast...).

And speaking of innovative women's clothing, I'm assuming you are familiar
with Heist Studios and their tights?

~~~
kathomuth
I am so glad you liked the video and that it caught your attention! That is so
awesome to hear =)

I have heard of Heist, and actually bought a bunch and tested them out - sadly
they too have the same problems as all of the other sheers out on the market
today. You can see a video of my tests (including Heist) here >
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXt3vNL8ILA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXt3vNL8ILA)

------
mikekij
hi @kathomuth. Just want to compliment the way you’re answering to peoples’
questions / comments / suggestions. Too many founders come off as defensive,
instead of absorbing what they can from outsiders. Your comments come off as
very receptive, yet informed. Good work!

~~~
kathomuth
Thanks Mike! Appreciate you saying so. I've really been enjoying the
conversation.

------
yagyu
This is really cool :)

Thought, look into nanocellulose fibers for textiles, and your product could
be biodegradable while still exceptionally strong[1]. Tech is probably not
mature, but worth keeping an eye on for future.

[1]
[https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms5018](https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms5018)

~~~
twic
Polylactones are biodegradable polymers available right now, although i don't
think they're particularly strong:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycaprolactone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycaprolactone)

If the fibers can be made cheaply and are biodegradable, then perhaps you
could make deliberately and responsibly disposable tights, in which case their
strength wouldn't matter as much. It's not as cool as super-strong hosiery,
but thinking about it, i quite like the idea of disposable underwear!

~~~
kragen
Polycaprolactone is actually unbelievably strong in one particular way: its
fracture toughness is astounding because its elongation at break is usually
over 1000%, higher even than polyethylenes. No other structural material even
comes close, unless you're counting soft rubbers (latex, polyurethane, or
SEBS, but not silicones), which reach high deformations through
pseudoelasticity rather than plastic flow.

Unfortunately, PCL's tensile strength is kind of lame, tens of megapascals,
like typical polyethylenes — but polyethylenes greatly exceed it in chemical
resistance, heat resistance, and moldability. And its low tensile modulus
gives it a very low speed of sound, which in turn means that in some
applications where you'd really love its incredible fracture toughness, the
impacts are sharp enough that it will break anyway. So, most of the time,
you're better off with metals or stronger engineering plastics for fracture
toughness.

However, the poor moldability and low glass transition point of PCL give it a
rather unique property among reasonably stiff materials: you can _shape the
freaking stuff with your hands while molten_. And so it is that you can find
PCL inexpensively on Amazon under names like ShapeLock, InstaMorph,
ThermoMorph, Kemilove, TechTack, Polymorph, and so on.

Just be careful about the service temperature. Like most plastics and metals,
PCL loses most of its strength well before it actually melts.

As for textiles, supposing you could spin PCL into fibers (which I'm pretty
sure you can, even if nobody has), PCL tights would be pretty much impossible
to get runs in, but they would melt if you spilled hot coffee on them. That
might be a deal-killer.

Rayon (cellophane) is also biodegradable. Usually this is considered a
drawback. Polylactide is probably the most popular biodegradable plastic going
around these days, but it isn't really biodegradable, it's aquadegradable. And
it's probably too brittle to make a useful garment fiber, even if the
hydrolysis problem wasn't a killer.

~~~
kathomuth
Very interesting! This is a fiber we hadn't looked into, seems like there
would be some challenges with our use case (particularly the melting point).
But definitely something I'm going to look more into.

~~~
kragen
Drop US$20 on a few hundred grams on Amazon and play with it. I used it to fix
a lot of things when I was traveling around with my wife in a Volkswagen bus,
even though the temperatures sometimes got too high for it.

~~~
kathomuth
Will do!

------
samstave
really like the demo of you hanging in the climbing harness for a demo of
strength, but I request the following demo of strength:

A belt sander.

Put a side of beef/ham/whatever (sorry vegans) in a pair of these hose and rub
it up against a belt sander.

This will emulate "road rash" that could ensue assuming you do a sports line
(like sleeves/leggings/elbow/knee-pads/etc)

you have established your strength arg, but now please establish your anti-
abrasion claim. Then you become a unicorn.

Also; please measure the hydrophobic properties of your material.

~~~
kathomuth
What a creative demo suggestion! My house is under renos right now, so I'm
sure we have a belt sander somewhere...lol. Our fiber is highly hydrophobic.

~~~
asah
This begs for a willitblend.com style campaign: will it run?

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aaronblohowiak
Neat product! I'm in awe of anyone who can make physical products. I think the
kickstarter video hit a great tone. I'm a big fan of durable products
replacing disposable.

~~~
kathomuth
Thank you! Appreciate your support and glad you liked the video!

------
exolymph
I posted this on /r/femalefashionadvice, should be interesting to see the
commentary there also.

[https://www.reddit.com/r/femalefashionadvice/comments/7xo5jr...](https://www.reddit.com/r/femalefashionadvice/comments/7xo5jr/kickstarter_campaign_for_indestructible_sheer/)

~~~
gwern
'[removed]'

------
jtmarmon
I do not wear pantyhose, so forgive me for naiivety, but I would love to know

1) Is the price not a bit high for something that you can only wear 50 times?
I suppose i'm not sure what the price per wear is of traditional pantyhose

2) Why does something so strong (e.g. you can try to pull them apart) only
last 50 wears? Seems like it's stronger than any tshirt I've worn but I
continue to wear them for years

~~~
Guest9812398
My girlfriend buys generic pantyhose that's $1 (we're in Central Europe). It
looks good, and lasts 1-2 wears before something pulls the fabric. In her
case, SheerlyGenius would cost 3-6x as much.

Another advantage of the $1 pairs is they always look like new, since she
wears a new pair almost every time. How does a SheerlyGenius pair look after
30 wears?

I imagine there's a use case here because people are funding the Kickstarter,
but I feel like $150 pantyhose is a small market.

~~~
Faaak
What I'm going to say is not at all against your girlfriend, but I find
amazing that you could buy pantyhoses for 1$ that are single use. The amount
of waste must be staggering.

~~~
Guest9812398
I was surprised as well. Stores sell 1 packs for $1.50, or 2 packs for $2 at
list price.

I never really put much thought into pantyhose during my life, and I just
assumed they costed $10 and lasted a long time like a pair of socks. I didn't
realize 1-2 wears is normal. It is a huge amount of waste as you said.

Nonetheless, I don't think $150 pantyhose is the solution. My girlfriend can
have three different thicknesses to choose from in her closet for $3. She's
not going to pay $450 to have that same level of selection. I think the price
needs to come way down from $150 to $25 to make sense.

~~~
kathomuth
Great conversation here. Unless you're going to a Costco, I'd say you'd be
pretty hard pressed to find $1 pairs of pantyhose in the US or Canada (which
is I'll admit where I have the most market familiarity). And even if you could
get a "disposable" pair for $1, the problem generally is that you don't know
when during that first where they might rip. Having your tights get a run mid
day is a major inconvenience. It is why a lot of women say they no longer wear
pantyhose. Not to mention the waste of the single wear product (which takes
about 50 years to decompose in a landfill). I don't think everyone is going to
immediately start investing in indestructible pantyhose, but I think there are
very clear benefits for those that do.

------
trhway
while the tights are obviously not bulletproof, yet very possibly to be
knife/abrasion-proof. That opens for example a market for work/sport wear,
like lighter version of those kevlar gloves in Home Depot.

~~~
kathomuth
Definitely! We've had a lot of requests from the sport/workout wear side of
things in particular. For anyone interested in more of a sport related
product, I actually have a list you can subscribe to for updates as we
continue to explore new product variants:
[http://eepurl.com/dkHD6X](http://eepurl.com/dkHD6X)

~~~
samstave
Can you please make a pair of socks from your textile/tech and report back on
how good they work?

(then sell socks to the military's of the planet) (and glove liners, and
Bivys)

~~~
kathomuth
Great idea!

------
empanadada
Great idea!! I'd love to try one out, one question though, how's the breathe-
ability of the garment? I find I have trouble with ones that don't let my skin
sweat or breathe out just a tad.

~~~
kathomuth
It's very breathable! The knit in an of itself is breathable, but our fibers
are also naturally cool to the touch, and are ultra light (they float on
water), making them more comfortable for day to day wear than regular
pantyhose.

------
komali2
>Our goal is to replace these disposable products with Sheerly Genius, which
has been tested to last up to 50 wears.

Out of curiosity, how did you determine this?

edit: omg lol, I love the robber scene in your kickstarter video

~~~
kathomuth
How did we determine the 50 wears metric? We've been producing prototypes
since September, and have been testing them with real women for day to day
wash and wear (in addition to our other more extreme tests like velcro, rings,
and hanging from the ceiling...lol)

~~~
semi-extrinsic
So, originally nylon stockings were pretty much bulletproof and in 30-40
denier, but what happened was, DuPont realized they could make them in 10-15
denier and still last four-five uses. And people bought those like hotcakes,
since they were prettier.

If you can make stockings bulletproof at 15 denier, what's to stop you (or a
competitor) from going to 3-6 denier and make an even prettier stocking that
only lasts four-five uses?

~~~
kathomuth
I totally agree, it's not in the interest of the hosiery industry to create a
reusable product. 30-40 denier products in traditional nylon are definitely
stronger than sheerer product, but are by no means even comparable to the
strength of the product we can produce in the same denier. If we wanted to
produce a 3-6 denier product with our materials, we could. So if that's where
the competition wanted to push the fashion trend we could go there and still
have a way better performing product. Not to mention, the industry's move
towards disposable product has created a massive pain point for consumers, so
we really believe consumers are ready to invest in something they can actually
get through a day in.

~~~
manilafolder
I'm speaking completely outside of my subject area, so take this with a large
grain of salt but hear me out -- I think the video is great and success from
the Kickstarter is proof of that.

But, I think a business needs to have solid distinguishing characteristics. An
ad that basically says, "It's more durable and just a little more expensive,
so if you do the math, it will work out in your favor after a long enough
period of time" doesn't sound like you're playing your strongest cards in your
hand.

If you can make a product that no one else can, such as 3-6 denier, or super-
strong athletic compression tights, then you create name-brand distinction.
Even if it means that the bulk of sales end up being what you just advertised
in Kickstarter, the tail-ends of the market is what defines the brand. "Super-
sheer, super-strong."

~~~
komali2
I think "tougher and more expensive" is enough of a distinction. I buy a lot
of gear in the hiking/camping/onebag world, and a lot of companies there
comprise nothing other than a "our shit don't break" philosophy. For example,
Goruck bags or Wolverine boots.

------
kragen
Have you thought about making woven products with the UHMWPE you're presumably
using? I want to replace my daily-carry satchel, which is leather, and the 200
grams of leather is a big chunk out of my 1500-gram satchel budget. I'd
actually thought about building a machine to unbraid UHMW fishing line and
thread it onto a bobbin for weaving. And 20–30 denier was about what I was
hoping for; I feel like 20–30 denier UHMW twill would make for a satchel that
was satiny, lightweight, impossible to stain, easy to clean, abrasion-
resistant, and damn near bulletproof.

~~~
kathomuth
Interesting use case! I hadn't considered going in that direction, but it does
remind me of a pitch I saw on Shark Tank where someone used UHMWPE to create a
bag. [https://loctote.com/](https://loctote.com/)

~~~
kragen
Oh wow, this is super awesome! Backpacks knit from Spectra! Thank you!

------
netman21
One interesting application is permeable space suit designs. The idea is that
instead of encapsulating an astronaut in a flexible pressurized container you
put them in a tight fitting suit that can apply the 3.5 lbs of force per
square inch necessary to counter the pressure of the air they breath. Cooling
is provided by normal perspiration through the fabric. (Don't forget that
vacuum is a great insulator!)

~~~
kathomuth
I wouldn't be surprised if this fiber was already used in space suits! But
definitely a great application if they aren't already.

------
mejarc
I love this project, but I detest control-top garments—if you branch into
stockings or hold-ups, I promise to invest in some!

~~~
kathomuth
Thank you for your support! Yes, stay tuned - we definitely hope to expand the
product range down the line.

------
egypturnash
My instant thought is “I want an opaque version with custom prints”.

~~~
Faaak
So, a legging ? I agree that it would be nice. Specially for the sports market

------
HarryHirsch
Have you got already got a fabric sample? How do the material properties of
HDPE knitted fabric compare to nylon?

~~~
kathomuth
Yes we already have a number of prototypes out in the wild. Everything shown
on our kickstarter is real product. They look and feel just like traditional
pantyhose, which was actually a bit of a surprise to us too! They have some
perks over traditional nylon knits as well, the PE fibers are natually cool to
the touch and bacterial resistant, making them great for hosiery/intimates.
The biggest challenge for us in getting the knit to work properly was stretch.
PE fibers don't stretch, so we had to fiber out ways to knit/combine with
other fibers, to create stretch, without compromising on strength.

------
zitterbewegung
Can you make a bodysuit of this? Others have mentioned that it might be knife
/ abrasion proof.

Also, other than the resistance to being broken does it have any other
capabilities such as wicking, odor resistance?

Are there any disadvantages to wearing the fiber?

What about allergic reactions?

~~~
kathomuth
You could make a bodysuit, can't see why not - was there a particular
application you were thinking of?

The fiber is bacteria resistant, odor resistant, and naturally cool to the
touch. We have yet to find any disadvantages of this product compared to a
traditional nylon. This fiber has been used in safety equipment like gloves
for some time without issues like allergic reactions - and we haven't see
anything like that in our own testing.

~~~
zitterbewegung
Since someone said that they might be knife/abrasion-proof you could have a
sporting line of undershirts (or would it be overshirts) that one could wear
for these types of applications. I would think that maybe a leotard or some
type of bodysuit might be appropriate for that?

~~~
kathomuth
Sporting has been a very popular use case/product request. So much so, I
actually started a mailing list to collect interest/to learn more about what
people would like to see from that type of product:
[http://eepurl.com/dkHD6X](http://eepurl.com/dkHD6X)

------
randall
Material science is so interesting to me. Like real life mad scientists.

~~~
natalie_C
Yup:) We wanted to create something that was truly indestructible. There are
many on the market claiming to be, but we tested them and they were very
easily ripped. We set out to push the envelope and also to try and
revolutionize the hosiery industry- which we have and we are really excited
for everyone to try them out!

------
RosanaAnaDana
how did the process of fiber development go? sounds like kevlar was a non-
starter, but you ended up with something similar? How many pairs of tights
would I need to stop a 9mm @ ten meters?

~~~
kathomuth
We ended up using polyethylene based fibers, which have similar applications
to aramids. They have taken the place of Kevlar in many applications because
they are lighter and stronger. They were a better starting point for us due to
the fact they come in lower deniers, but were still not fine enough - or the
right color for our application. So we went directly to the manufacturers to
develop our own variant.

~~~
natalie_C
They are also naturally cooling and antibacterial.

------
hemp_tights
You mentioned Kevlar, which hemp can do too. Is hemp a viable option for
tights?

Hemp is also antibacterial; this article mentions a 60/40 hemp/rayon blend by
EnviroTextile for antibacterial teddy bears, scrubs, :
[https://herb.co/marijuana/news/anti-bacterial-hemp-fabric-
wi...](https://herb.co/marijuana/news/anti-bacterial-hemp-fabric-will-bring-
happiness-sick-kids)

~~~
kathomuth
Interesting. I wouldn't expect hemp would have the tenacity as the fibers
we're using. But reading more about it now, it looks like people are trying to
do some interesting things with hemp in bulletproof. One challenge might be
how fine the fiber can be made. But I'm going to look into it!

~~~
hemp_tights
It took a few searches, but I found these useful and relevant:

"Bulletproof with Hemp" [https://culturemagazine.com/bulletproof-with-
hemp/](https://culturemagazine.com/bulletproof-with-hemp/)

> Naturally Advanced Technologies is a company that takes hemp fibers and
> treats them with a patented enzymatic solution that further enhances their
> already protective qualities by making the final material softer and thinner
> than silk, but stronger and lighter. This material, called Crailar, can also
> be converted into plastic materials similar to the kind Henry Ford’s famous
> Model T Ford was made of.

CRAiLAR:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRAiLAR_Technologies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRAiLAR_Technologies)

------
crimsonalucard
>Fun Fact: Half of our backers on Kickstarter so far have been men!

New startup idea: pantyhose marketed towards men. YC 2018 here I come!

~~~
kathomuth
Honestly - the more I'm learning about this market - the more I'm thinking we
need to launch a line / brand marketed just for men. The more you know!

~~~
crimsonalucard
I wonder if it's the marketing or if it's just men that are into feminine
stuff. Will running commercials playing industrial rock music and starring big
burly construction workers wearing pantyhose like it's badass really sell?

Probably you should just keep the marketing low key and just add extra space
in the crotch area for the balls.

~~~
jpindar
For men they're called base layers - like long johns but made of thin nylon in
manly colors.

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CJefferson
My wife is 6'2", any plans for longer pairs? There is definitely a market for
them, particularly internationally.

~~~
kathomuth
Given that pantyhose are stretchy - your wife would likely be fine in one of
our larger sizes, dependant on her build. I'm not 6'2", but I'm 5'10" and have
found that as long as I'm buying a larger pair I'm usually fine. You just
trade give horizonally, for give vertically if that makes sense. I'll also
take a closer look at our size chat are see what extending the height range in
the listed chart might look like.

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kumarski
This is dope. I studied polymer-textile-fiber engineering til my engineering
school shut down the program, it's still incredibly relevant, but it has kind
of gone away in the USA for obvious reasons as a practice.

Wish there was a site where I could learn about new textiles
initiatives/technologies like this.

I was YCS2012.

Textile dye causes 20% of all industrial waste water pollution.

This is a huge win, well done. Very relevant.

Rooting for you(all)

~~~
car
This site has textile news, here an article about textile bike spokes:
[https://textile-network.com/en/Technische-Textilien/TU-
Chemn...](https://textile-network.com/en/Technische-Textilien/TU-Chemnitz-
Textile-Speichen)

And here another interesting application, a textile bike lock:
[https://www.tex-lock.com/en/](https://www.tex-lock.com/en/)

------
mingabunga
10x stronger than steel, and floats on water - sounds a bit like Dyneema. Best
of luck!

~~~
logfromblammo
Or Spectra.

Though I imagine to get the fibers fine enough, you would need even _higher_
molecular weight and a little more crosslinking. Possibly with a better
plasticizer so you could get tighter loops (from the knitting process) without
breaking the strands.

This is awesome. If you can get this to succeed as hosiery, gloves are the
obvious next step, then the inner liners for multilayer outerwear garments.

~~~
HarryHirsch
Apparently you _can 't_ have crosslinking - the melt would be too viscous to
be extruded from a tiny spinneret. You wouldn't use plasticizers in
polyethylene, the "plasticizer" in LLDPE is a tiny amount of long-chain
terminal alkenes that serve as domain breakers.

Fibers is truly where chemistry and engineering collide.

~~~
kragen
This problem is even worse with PCL, which is so viscous it's almost unusable
for most purposes. Thinking about PCL fibers in
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16380491](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16380491),
it occurred to me that I had made some crude PCL fibers by hand — while the
plastic _wasn 't_ molten. So it occurred to me that you could probably make
PCL fibers by the process of die drawing, the same way you make copper fibers
or steel fibers, maybe without even the annealing steps in the middle.
Presumably this would work for a variety of plastics with high elongation at
break.

------
bitwize
I read "indestructible tights" and thought immediately of Edna Mode...

------
quickthrower2
Great idea! This seems more like a shark-tank play than a YC, because it's a
mass consumer product, tv publicity, distribution channels etc. What made you
go the VC route?

~~~
kathomuth
From my perspective, I see a lot of R&D in the company's future, not to
mention a need to invest in growth/marketing - things we wouldn't be able to
do quickly, if at all without VC funding. But I'm curious to learn more about
your perspective - can you expand on what made you think this was less VC
suitable? Would love to hear as it will prepare me for what questions I might
get fundraising!

~~~
quickthrower2
The Sharks do a lot of business with mass consumer retail, so they are well
connected. They have existing businesses. E.g. selling on QVC. Not sure if the
Silicon Valley investors deal with that kind of stuff? Maybe the YC MO is to
let the founder figure that out (so basically the founder is treated less with
kid gloves). The sharks do ask for lower valuations than other investors so
that kind of goes hand in hand.

I am not an expert in this area, this is more of an armchair comment /
question.

------
lanius
So this is what The Hulk's pants are made of!

------
VectorLock
What were the other two companies you sold?

~~~
kathomuth
ShopLocket (to PCH Intl) and Female Funders (to Highline Beta)

------
z3t4
This could be a SaaS "Socks as a service".

------
Ascendency
Did you ever look at synthetic spider silk?

~~~
kathomuth
Yes! Very promising fiber. Sadly none of the manufacturers we spoke to were
ready for any sort of mass production yet.

------
vishalzone2002
great product!! are you raising any angel funding?

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HorizonXP
Congrats on the launch! Excited to see this, I'll definitely forward this to
my wife.

Personally, I think the Kickstarter video might be a bit long and/or verbose?
I know nothing about Kickstarter campaigns, but there's plenty of folks who do
within the YC network.

Also, there was a missed opportunity for a cameo by Zak! (Kidding of course!)

~~~
kathomuth
Zak is the robber accomplice - sitting in the car beside the robber that has
lines :)

Really appreciate your feedback on the video! We're always trying new things,
so I'm sure there are more edits of this in our future. Right now Kickstarter
is showing that 32% of visitors watch the whole video - which I think is
probably pretty good?

~~~
HorizonXP
That's a very subtle cameo, but upon rewatching it, I can clearly see his
long, luscious hair.

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jaclaz
I don't want to seem like a grammar nazi of sorts, but it seems to me that
there are a couple of typos in the points 7 and 8 of the "How we did it":

7/ >the ->them?

8/ >ridicuously ->ridiculously

~~~
kathomuth
Thank you for pointing those out! Fixed :)

------
myf01d
> Half of our backers on Kickstarter so far have been men!

really makes you think

~~~
crimsonalucard
Those backers are planning on wearing it. It's a hidden market.. a niche that
hasn't been exploited.

