

The Hawkeye Initiative: Woman uses art to explain sexism to her boss - Mz
http://thehawkeyeinitiative.com/post/50432219744/special-guest-edition-the-hawkeye-initiative-irl

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MollyR
I wonder if she understands the role of idealized forms in art, or idealized
forms fit into everything.

We see them not only in comic books, but also on the covers of romance novels.
We also see them in roman statues for both genders.

Edit: Personal anecdote: My asian friends are big fans of bishonen tropes or
mangas, which seems to be the manga counterpoint to western comics
beefcake/cheesecake tropes.

~~~
Retra
Why wouldn't she? Idealization in art is not a problem. Her boss didn't put
the poster up because it was an idealization. If he had, there wouldn't have
been any concern in switching it with another idealization; he would have
simply appreciated the new poster.

But he did appreciate it: not for it's "sexy woman" idealization, but for the
statement it made, and for being a reminder about what is important in a
workplace.

There is more to art than pretty pictures. Focusing on sexy pictures in the
name of "artistic appreciation of idealizations" is narrow-mindedness, no
matter how you spin it.

~~~
MollyR
I agree, it's not professional. Those don't belong in the workplace, and I
admire the way the guest poster went about convincing her coworkers.

Sorry I wasn't clear, when I was referring to she, I meant the creator of the
website, not the guest poster.

>Focusing on sexy pictures in the name of "artistic appreciation of
idealizations" is narrow-mindedness, no matter how you spin it.

I think it would also be narrow-minded to not think that "sexy pictures" could
be a component of art or art in themselves.

My main thoughts are that humans didn't evolve or create things in vacuum, why
do we even value art ? and where in our biological wiring do they values come
from ?

~~~
Retra
It is just very easy to appreciate a sexually-charged picture in a superficial
way. It is so easy, in fact, that I would be hard-pressed to claim there were
any actual value in doing it.

It's like talking to someone who wants to eat chocolate cake every day. Sure,
chocolate cake is good, and we could talk for days about the nuances of cake
making. But if you eat it every day saying "I just like it," you're not being
nuanced. You're being crude and childish.

Now, if you 'went meta' and artfully maintained an appreciation for hedonism
in a way that communicates it well, then that's different. But sticking a
poster in your office is not that, either, because it doesn't really
communicate that intent. Putting a complementary poster next to it as an act
of social awareness or even irony might.

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johnnyappleseed
I've seen this debate, that the other posters are having before.

1) Art is subjective. Some people consider soup cans art. Some other people
consider pin up girls or even suicide girls art.Sexually charged pieces of art
are fairly common. Some people only consider pieces of art to be artwork, if
the creator intended it to be art.

Essentially "art" means a bunch of things to different people. One person
doesn't get to dictate an individuals values. Also putting pretension aside,
there is nothing wrong with just liking something. I think adults should be
free to make that distinction for themselves, and I don't expect them to
defend it to me. Grown-a __adults are free to believe what they want.

2) The borderline between art and products can be thin. Artists need to eat
too. Sex sells period. Some things can be a product and a piece of art. This
can lead to a lot of controversy as people are arguing different things.

3) Business doesn't care about art. They care about making money and not
losing money. If someone finds something is offensive for what ever reason
sexism,religion,explicit language,then take it down. You'll often see only
very neutral business "art" for this reason. Business's don't want to be sued.
There is a good parks and recreation episode about this.

I expect to be downvoted for this. But the hawkeye initiative is stupid. I
think Marvel should be allowed to do whatever it wants. I also think the
customers should be allowed to buy whatever they want. So women are in more
suggestive poses . . , so what ? Why do we need social awareness for works of
fiction ? And if we do why aren't there social awareness campaign against
things like 50 shades of grey, twilight, or unrealistic romance novels.

The whole things screams of "Don't like what I don't like" If women like guys
who are like a half naked Christopher Hemsworths, let them. If guys like women
who are like half naked Scarlet Johanneson, let them.

Let people like whatever they want. I don't like the hawkeye initiative
passive aggressive policing of a product thru "social awareness". It's shaming
people for liking what boobs ?

It sounds an awful lot like religious behavior, and screw that. I didn't let
the church shame me for thinking women and men are equal, and I won't let
feminists shame me for being hetero and like boobs.

Finally I am sick of seeing this stuff on Hacker News, I come here for the
tech discussions, not art or social awareness.

~~~
johnnyappleseed
If you want art or social awareness, Go To Reddit

