
Nexus 4 Unusable for VoIP Calls - cdoxsey
https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=41626#c20
======
georgemcbay
I have a Nexus 4.

I don't use the OS native sip functionality on it, but I do use GrooveIP and I
have run into this issue. With GrooveIP you can work around it by fiddling
with the various echo cancellation options GrooveIP supports at the cost of
introducing a voice latency on your outgoing voice that is just long enough to
be annoying (but usable once you acclimate to it), in my experience.

There are generally a lot of audio related issues with this phone with various
users unable to get loud-enough volume from the device either on calls, from
the speaker or via the headphones Seems to be a software bug as many people
report if you root the phone and run alsamixer you can boost the audio up to
decent levels, but this isn't a great fix because any time an app adjusts the
volume at the SDK level the problem returns.

<https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=41042>

Google's stellar customer support consists of no-questions-asked replacing
your device (which is great) with one that has exactly the same problems out
of the box (which is not so great). Haven't seen any kind of official
acknowledgement of this as an issue despite it being very commonly reported
online (google: "nexus 4 volume too low")

An otherwise great phone hampered by a pretty serious fundamental issue.

~~~
general_failure
I have no audio issues with my nexus 4 whatsoever for normal calls. It's quite
great actually audio wise.

But yes, GrooveIP is unusable. I bought it for 4 bucks or something and hardly
use it since the voice quality is terrible.

~~~
modulusprime
I get GSM quality calls on my Nexus 4 (at minimum) via cSIPsimple, pbxes.org,
and Google Voice, usually over a mediocre repeated WiFi connection. If there's
interest, I'll write it up.

Mild configuration hassle but reliable. Helps to move Google Voice to an
account where where you never IM.

~~~
jasonparekh
I'm interested, please write it up

~~~
modulusprime
Noted, will do.

------
fletchowns
I don't understand how bug reports can sit around for months with dozens (if
not hundreds) of comments on them without a single response from somebody with
an @google.com username. I feel like I've seen this happen for all kinds of
Google products, not just Android. Or am I missing something here?

~~~
joshmlewis
So how does Google get away with "legendarily bad" customer service while EA
cannot? I guess in a way EA charges a good bit for the games and good support
is expected, but still. I paid $300 for a Nexus 4, I should get something more
than a message board.

~~~
Lewisham
This is as opposed to the bug reports you can file with other smartphone
makers?

I'm not trying to be snarky (well, a little bit), but you simply can't file a
bug about an iPhone. You can go to the Apple Discussion Forums and see threads
that go on for pages and pages with no involvement from anyone from Apple at
all.

The only difference is that Apple releases one model at a time, so if there's
a problem, everyone has it at once and it garners enough media attention to
warrant a response.

I have no idea how one would file bugs about Windows Phone 8 either.

That Google makes their bug tracker visible doesn't mean they're doing any
more or less than the other guys.

~~~
redcircle
Apple's bug tracker is accessible to developers: <https://bugreport.apple.com>

------
rdtsc
Argh, this smells like the audio latency issue. An issue with 500 comments
pleading Google to do something about it for 4 years. Ladies and gentlemen, I
give you issue #3434:

<https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=3434>

There has been some improvement lately but it is hard to find devices that
support the "special" low latency mode.

This sounds like a similar thing. Just pointing out the level or response and
engagement you'd expect from Google (hint: almost none).

~~~
illicium
This is one of the issues keeping Android from being an excellent platform for
music applications. Coupled with the general hackability of Android devices
(Accessory Development Kit, etc.), it could be an amazing platform for digital
audio workstations, synthesizers, samplers, and audio effects processing.

iOS is better in this regard, but still not perfect. Audio routing between
applications is a dicey affair (done through a 3rd party app that runs in the
background), and it's not possible to charge while using USB accessories, like
audio interfaces or MIDI keyboards.

~~~
alexbell
Yep. Say what you will about Apple products, but it's no coincidence that
professional audio applications are so much more prevalent on Apple products.
Core Audio is a fantastic base for developers to work with.

------
mik3y
Incidentally USB Host is also crippled on Nexus 4 [1]. Surprising to discover
another big feature broken on a flagship Android device.

[1]
[https://android.googlesource.com/device/lge/mako/+show/f608d...](https://android.googlesource.com/device/lge/mako/+show/f608db225c5ead1c255fd84fa7f5431c2e3b3a72%5E2)

~~~
voltagex_
Crippled in hardware - there's no +5V line so even when you patch that code
you need to use a Y cable.

------
swah
I was sincerely thinking that buying an "official" phone mean't zero problems

(currently having a very bad experience with my LG O2X, where I'm still
running CM7 - announced as the "world's first dual core smartphone" or
something).

~~~
eli
I bought a Nexus One and the only problems I never had the any unexpected
problems with it. (The extremely limited memory for app storage seriously
hampered its usefulness, but that was a design limitation that I knew going
in.)

------
xur17
In addition to the echo, background noise is really bad during VoIP calls.
This comment has some interesting details:

<https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=41626#c20>

------
Zigurd
I have not paid much attention to SIP recently but aren't the implementations
of theAEC and other components up to the OEM to create or license, as much as,
say, baseband firmware, graphics drivers, etc. are the OEM's responsibility?

If Google actually had their own unencumbered implementations, wouldn't they
be in the AOSP source tree?

------
epoxyhockey
EDIT: please disregard.. I have been getting complaints, but they may not be
related to this issue.

 _This would seem to explain all of the 'echoing' complaints I've been getting
when using google voice on my N4._

~~~
ryanhuff
I thought Google voice didn't use VoIP.

~~~
tadfisher
It doesn't. The parent may be using GrooveIP or another GV-SIP gateway?

------
andor
I guess that just as with the native email client, there's not much
development happening on the native SIP dialer.

Instead of improving the core Android apps, which would benefit other phone
manufacturers as well, Google is mostly working on their web service frontends
(Gmail, Google Plus, probably Google Voice as well) nowadays. The result is a
platform packed with features that only work half the time.

Did you know that the native Email client doesn't even set the In-Reply-To
header, i.e. breaks threads?

------
keda
As someone in the google thread point out, latest csipsimple nightly is worth
a shot <http://nightlies.csipsimple.com/trunk/> if you are experiencing this
issue.

------
shakeel_mohamed
Well, maybe I'll hold off on buying one for a little while. Yikes.

~~~
snaky
You better buy now, Nexus 5 will contain even more bugs considering the
process of dealing with them at Google.

~~~
shakeel_mohamed
Well maybe I'll just buy a Windows phone :|

~~~
snaky
Well maybe you would think again.

Where on Android you can fix something by reading XDA, installing CM or other
custom build, change the application (thanks, Intents!), or just patch the
source code, on WP8 if something doesn't work or just doesn't present (like
VPN, call log grouping or even call duration info!) all you can do is just buy
another drink.

~~~
shakeel_mohamed
Sorry, I thought the ":|", and mention of "Windows phone" implied sarcasm.
Perhaps that was too subtle.

~~~
snaky
Ah, sorry, I thought everybody have adopted new mnemonics for sarcasm -
[http://pseudotrue.com/2013/04/10/a-new-punctuation-to-
highli...](http://pseudotrue.com/2013/04/10/a-new-punctuation-to-highlight-
sarcasm/)

------
grumps
I have a N4 and I'm not noticing the issue at all. I've been using Vonage and
GrooveIP.

I would normally pick up on it from the 3 years of VoIP and other real time
audio work I did.

I didn't get a chance to read everything but as a I recall some of the codecs
used could have some serious echo side effects. Did someone mention the codecs
being used?

------
snaky
On this reddit thread some solutions like using SIP gateway with echo
cancellation were discussed.

[http://www.reddit.com/r/nexus4/comments/15ip1v/is_voip_just_...](http://www.reddit.com/r/nexus4/comments/15ip1v/is_voip_just_plain_broken_on_the_nexus_4/)

~~~
xur17
The problem is that:

1) Software echo cancellation doesn't work as well as hardware echo
cancellation.

2) The phone uses a second microphone to cancel out background noise during
calls. This isn't used for any voip calls. I'm told it is extremely loud when
a car drives by, and a little bit of wind make it sound like I'm in a
hurricane.

Is there some hardware reason they can't open up access to this chip? Does
audio for calls get routed directly to the gsm chip, so we don't have access
or something?

------
dewiz
I know it is probably unrelated, but this made me think about the power Google
has and could use to affect third party sw...cough...skype....cough...

Anyway, I have a Nexus 4, looks like a good suggestion never to rush with
upgrades... if it works dont touch it?

------
fiddly_bits
Nexus 4 also cannot do wifi-calling, seriously degrading its usefulness in
spotty celular zones. <http://support.t-mobile.com/thread/38694>

------
dror
I have a Nexus 4. I use it with GrooveIP. I don't experience the issues
described in this issue.

------
imperialdrive
i bet a lot stems from this (forgive if other people already mentioned it)

<http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=41631>

Can't use BT with WIFI at same time!!! all nexus 4, 4.22 OS, just plain sucks

------
ck2
Do they mean unsuitable for speakerphone calls?

Because why not a bluetooth headset?

------
fakeer
I've a Galaxy Nexus and the cellular operator's 3G usage pop-ups in screen
make my life hell. It just keeps on receiving them. Whenever there's a
background transaction of data, even a kilobyte. That means if my phone is
kept for 30 minutes and I get a call, I need to click through those 10-20
accumulated pop-up windows on my Android screen to receive the call or do
anything on my phone. On mornings when there's no Wi-Fi I usually get some
70-100 such pop-ups. I counted. Sometimes I better switch off and then switch
on the phone to avoid clicking through those pop-ups.

The cellular operator (Airtel India) says it's a feature and argues that every
operator has it and that iPhone, BlackBerry and Windows (etc) users don't have
this problem. True.

Samsung support says - this is Google feature and then is quick to add - _but
we never sold Galaxy Nexus in India. No support there. Sorry, bye-bye._

I go to raise a Google-code issue just like this. Well, there's one already
logged - years old. _Of course without a fix or response from Google!_

I'm an Android developer(day job) with a laaarge OEM but I doubt an Android is
going to be my next phone. I am not comfortable with paying for anything very
expansive then being on my own.

This is how Google provides support. They don't.

~~~
hahainternet
> This is how Google provides support. They don't.

This is a completely unrelated issue caused by your carrier. Why are you
posting it here?

~~~
fakeer
>> _completely unrelated issue_

Technically, yes. One deals with AG, RIL and call app another deals with
Notification management.

>> _caused by your carrier_

No, it's not. The carrier has to send the updates. It's upto OS on how to
handle it and they ought to handle it the way other mobile OS do.

>> _Why are you posting it here?_

Because the nature of issue is same and so is the reason/origin. Left by
google. OP's issue is old. Used to crop up in Galaxy Nexus too. I worked on an
OEM work around for Europe model and it was there in S3 too.

~~~
divtxt
I have to say that it's (mostly) the carrier's fault.

I have the same issue sometimes with Airtel India, and I'm pretty sure this
notification was turned off 2 years. [ _edit_ or maybe i just had a good data
connection then]

Also, this issue is not consistent. I'm guessing what happens is: carrier
sends usage alert when you "turn off" data + bad connection that keeps
dropping => many notifications even though you never turned off data.

There are a few apps that convert USSD alerts to notifications - try these -
but it would be nice if this was a built-in feature.

~~~
fakeer
>> _the carrier's fault_

As I said the behaviour is present in other operators too. I've asked a
friends on Idea and Vodafone too(with Android). I just called a friend(before
writing this comment) and he confirms that he is not facing this issue on
Idea+iPhone5(he faced the issue on Nexus S with Airtel and then Idea too).

I had asked a friend with a Lumia and on Airtel and he said he doesn't have to
do this.

>> _carrier sends usage alert when you "turn off" data + bad connection that
keeps.._

No, it sends whenever there's 3G transaction and the usage period ends. I've
observed that when I am using browser, I usually get the alert after I close
the browser.

Airtel technical team(I was told they were the tech team) also confirmed that
it is based upon usage and usually many apps/features rely for background
syncing/net-access solely upon 3G/data so that is what makes the number of
pop-ups too much. They also confirmed that it happens even when the phone is
continuously on WiFi(I concur).

>> _There are a few apps that convert USSD_

Tried. Actually the most famous one is developed by an Indian guy(makes me
think he was a victim himself). Didn't work.

Planning to root it. Google will push probably the last upgrade with 5.0(if at
all). Will see if there's any ROM that handles it.

~~~
divtxt
I just polled some friends on chat:

\- iPhone + Vodafone Bangalore - SMS notifications - inconsistent frequency

\- Galaxy Y + Airtel Bangalore - SMS alert only

so it seems carrier/plan dependent to me!

> it sends whenever there's 3G transaction and the usage period ends

Sure - what I was guessing is that sometimes the phone is on a "single" 3G
connection all day & there's no alert, and some days the phone makes "many" 3G
connections & there are lots of alerts. (or perhaps it does not work this way
& there's some other cause - not a telecom expert!)

[EDIT: oops both friends say they get SMS not USSD alerts]

