
Ask HN: As an employee of a company, how do you assess its health? - dpflan
What indicators do you look at to determine whether the company is in good or bad health or trending in a direction?<p>Do you have anecdotes (or even more significant data!) about signs or events or shifts in culture that ended up foretelling a change to the company?<p>[Update(s)]<p>I mainly meant &quot;startup&quot; (i.e. not Fortune 500) when I said company. But I don&#x27;t want to prevent discussions about larger entities, so perhaps we can preface comments with which type of company you&#x27;re talking about if necessary. :)
======
tiredwired
They suddenly decide to inventory equipment (determine company value or
collateral). Cutting back on benefits like 401k matching. Delays buying new
equipment. People quitting and not being replaced. Senior management having
all-day private meetings. They request your background information as if to
determine if you are qualified for current or new positions (if company is
discussing being acquired). Hackathons with a theme completely off target from
current products. Multiple sets of men in suits touring the office. Managers
stop downloading latest version of the beta-test app. Managers stop showing up
for meetings. Managers stop caring about product quality. You look up from
your desk and realize the office is empty when it should be busy - either
those people are being terminated or you are being terminated.

~~~
arethuza
"Multiple sets of men in suits touring the office"

New tenants being shown round the office you are in can be a bit worrying...

~~~
futhey
Not to discount what you're saying, but there are several sets of “men in
suits” that appear long before you lose your office space.

Some are your investors (or work for them). Some are consultants or advisors,
promising to solve all your problems. The service provider you're re-
negotiating payment terms with. Potential acquirers, etc.

~~~
trhaynes
Must they be men?

~~~
khedoros1
Of course not. They also don't need to be in suits. The wording is just meant
to evoke particular imagery. And the comment that you replied to just used
that quoted section from the parent and grandparent, anyhow. If you have a
problem with the wording, then you have a problem more directly with the
grandparent than with this comment, IMO.

------
fnbr
There's a great article on this topic from Steve Blank:

[https://steveblank.com/2009/12/21/the-elves-leave-middle-
ear...](https://steveblank.com/2009/12/21/the-elves-leave-middle-
earth-%E2%80%93-soda%E2%80%99s-are-no-longer-free/)

He argues that a leading indicator is when free food/drinks are removed, as
it's a sign that the company is moving from a growth, "we're all in it
together" mentality to a cost-cutting one.

I, personally, focus on who's getting promoted and who's leaving. If a company
is promoting internally and retaining people, then it's typically in a good
place; if a lot of people are getting hired above others, and new employees
aren't staying long, then it's in poor health.

~~~
arien
When I read things like this, I like to take a moment to realise how fortunate
we are to work in a sector where something like freebies is almost considered
to be a sacred right. Is there any other profession or sector where they get
the same treatment?

I don't think removing or reducing these benefits is a sign of poor health. I
think it's more a sign of turning into a proper business (which needs to
answer to the people who put the money to buy all these drinks in the first
place), which isn't for everyone, but it doesn't _have_ to be a bad sign.

I do agree with the second part. The attrition rate is definitely something to
keep tabs on, but it's important to know why people are leaving.

~~~
fao_
> I like to take a moment to realise how fortunate we are to work in a sector
> where something like freebies is almost considered to be a sacred right.

Bear in mind that, most programmers do not get paid overtime, and are expected
to work like horses. The reason freebies are sacred rights are because those
are, in part, the unofficial payment for working in such conditions.

~~~
fnbr
Yup. I would take getting paid overtime over freebies hands down. 1.5x for
every hour worked over 40? Sign me up.

~~~
walshemj
1.5 is a little low 1.75 after 8 Pm 2x at weekend and 2x plus a day TOIL for
sunday

------
shimon
One simple thing missing in most of these replies: ask questions. Ask your
boss, ask your peers, ask the CEO now and then.

    
    
      - How is the company doing against its goals for the year?
      - What does our runway look like?
      - What signs of product success are we expecting? What are we seeing?
    

Note that in any company, and especially in a startup, all of these questions
are rife with uncertainty and stress. You should expect these to touch a
nerve, and request brutally honest answers. Leaders experience existential
fear on these topics frequently, even in great companies.

In the responses, be wary of blithe positivity more than bad news. Bad news is
normal; a healthy organization learns from it and improves. Optimism
disconnected from reality is either an attempt to mislead you or a sign of
blindness to results.

~~~
JimboOmega
I definitely have had employers that basically refused to discuss such things
(in one particularly egregious example, a company with 10 people).

It's frustrating, but some small company CEOs also get very wrapped up in
emulating what "Corporate" looked like at bigger companies. That includes
keeping information from employees, because if they knew how bad it was they
might leave, word might travel to investors, etc.

~~~
shimon
Refusing the discussion is a categorically bad sign, though of course some
details won't be public. Best case, the leader is deluded in a way that limits
learning. Like an entrepreneur who wants you to sign an NDA to discuss their
idea, this sort of behavior is now obviously bad.

Relatedly, when a candidate asks these types of questions during the
recruitment process, this signals that you're clueful. A good employer will
happily engage. A bad one will switch to a more gullible candidate.

------
corobo
I generally work for smaller companies, < 50 total staff. Most of my variables
and data pieces others have said. My main "rats, sinking ship" is in regards
to others working there;

Health note: Employee churn when churn is not the norm.

Health warning: Certain people leaving with enough business knowledge it's
noticeable they're gone

Health crisis: Multiple health warnings in quick succession (within 2 years).

At warning level I make sure my CV is updated and start setting up job alerts.
At crisis I'm actively applying for jobs to keep my options wide open.

Edit: Ooh reading another comment - I watch the public docs of the company I'm
working for. It's a year or so out financials-wise but you can get some info
from it.

~~~
logfromblammo
I'd actually counsel updating the resume every 6 months and applying to at
least one job posting with it, just to get a sense of the local job scene. And
even if your current company is fine, you might get the chance to switch to
one that is better. At the very least, you get some interview practice, which
never hurts.

One does get slightly paranoid after getting laid off with only 3 days notice
and no severance, one time.

If your management feels that it has to offer some form of reassurance to its
employees, in the form of "Don't worry: X will probably not happen," then you
should create a contingency plan, as though X is happening next month.

~~~
corobo
I do try to keep it up to date every so often - though saying that I've been
in my current job over a year and haven't touched it.. - those yellow and red
flags definitely trigger a more urgent need to update it

HN being the global sort of place I (and others) should really mention where
I'm at - in the UK at least short of anything that gets me fired on the spot I
know I'll have a month's notice if I do need to start looking so that does
give a bit of complacency as it's in writing in my contract.

Having said that it couldn't hurt to keep the eyes open, the job I've got now
was a lucky gem of a find

------
pgt
Cutting of catered lunches is a strong signal that the company is in a cash
crunch. You can try to propose a weekly catered lunch at your company to
"encourage communication" and watch it is a signal. In the past I instituted
weekly catered lunches at a company, which were halved from weekly to bi-
weekly the moment finance knew there was trouble.

Other indicators: delayed salary reviews, senior staff leaving (and not being
replaced, because money) or minority shareholders trying to sell their stakes.

~~~
kzisme
How often do salary reviews generally occur for someone working as a developer
(or IT I suppose?)

~~~
kogepathic
_> How often do salary reviews generally occur for someone working as a
developer (or IT I suppose?)_

It's served me well to have at least one interview per year with a different
company in your field to see what they're offering. Doing this has really
helped me understand what the market is willing to pay for my skills, and has
more than once caused me to shift the direction of my career because the work
they were doing was interesting enough that I switched jobs.

You don't necessarily have to accept the job, and I would caution against
switching jobs every single year, but I've definitely found the experience
helpful. It also forces you to keep your CV up to date, and it's also great
interview practice. I've definitely taken lessons learned from my various
interviews and applied them to interviewing candidates for our company.

~~~
zelos
> It's served me well to have at least one interview per year with a different
> company

That sounds like really good advice: finding out what's out there, getting
interview experience and stopping that "fear of change" feeling you can end up
with when you work for one company for a long time.

~~~
khedoros1
> and stopping that "fear of change" feeling you can end up with when you work
> for one company for a long time.

That's what I'm dealing with right now. I've been 9 years at the place that I
started at, right out of college. Missed some signs of a downward slide that I
should've recognized, and I feel like my current team is a "dead team
walking", just waiting for the company to find a way to get rid of us.

So I've got pressure to move on, and my most solid options mean moving my
family. If I'd been searching over the last couple of years, I'm sure I
could've found something cool and suitable, but still in my current area.

------
VLM
Many answers are negative assuming decline, or provide an extremely
complicated answer to a simple problem. I'd propose based on decades of
observation that you model the behavior and personality of all of management
as if it was one person. Now is that imaginary merged individual person a
lunatic deep in cocaine addiction psychosis? That might be a bad sign. Is that
imaginary merged person a reasonable good leader? Sounds like a good sign. Is
that one merged person in a civil war with its large number of multiple
personalities? Run like hell.

This is what "real" culture fit actually is, whereas what culture fit means in
2017 as currently deployed is "we only hire young white ivy-league(-ish)
males" which is a totally different concept or problem.

~~~
jasode
_> I'd propose based on decades of observation that you model the behavior and
personality of all of management as if it was one person._

The problem I see with this advice is that many technical people (e.g.
presumably many HN readers) are not good at "reading people". It's very
similar to socially-inept engineers asking _" how can I tell if a girl would
be ok with me asking her out on a date?"_ We then respond with more well-
meaning advice, _" if she smiles at you, that's a good sign."_ And then the
engineer might ask, _" well, how can I tell if her smile is genuine affection
or just politeness?"_ ... and so on and so on ... into a sort of infinite
recursion into the mysteries of "people behavior".

If the engineer is the kind of person that can read Ribbonfarm's Gervais
Principle[1] and say to him/herself, _" that was a waste of time because
that's all obvious information"_, then yes, he can follow your advice. He/she
can evaluate the managers as if they were chess pieces and figure out the
health of the company.

If you're the type that's not "tuned in" into how people exhibit _implicit
behaviors_ , you'll need a Plan B. E.g. look at the financials or other
strategy.

[1] [https://www.ribbonfarm.com/the-gervais-
principle/](https://www.ribbonfarm.com/the-gervais-principle/)

------
gwbas1c
TLDR: You assess health by if you're getting paid what you think it's worth to
stay in the job. If you're okay with the pay, and you like the job, be a pro
and stay as long as the pay comes in.

A big warning sign was that my employer interview great candidates, make
offers, and then the candidate didn't accept. The problem was that we weren't
paying competitively.

I tried to express this to upper management, and then instead of fixing the
problem, they just gave me a raise. (From below market rate to below market
rate but able to start putting money in the newly-offered 401k.)

Shortly afterwards, I interviewed at one of our major competitors. The next
day I looked at one of the founders and said, "if there's a chance to exit via
acquisition, we need to take it."

Turns out there was an acquisition deal in the works, but we couldn't know due
to how US law works. One of the higher-ups asked me to investigate "a bug,"
and when I looked at her logs, all I saw were references to an upcoming
acquisition. I then knew to stick around and give the new owners a chance.

There's a lot to be said for sticking through a few months of uncertainty when
it works out to be a great job in the long run.

~~~
hodgesrm
"There's a lot to be said for sticking through a few months of uncertainty
when it works out to be a great job in the long run."

This. You have to know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em. It's not
easy with startups to decide which way to go due to the uncertainty inherent
in new businesses. I would tend toward hold if the following is true:

1.) The company is meeting a real market need even if it's not doing it very
well. The tell: customers 'get' the problem you are trying to solve and want
to talk to you. If they stick around but complain a lot about the product
that's actually a good sign.

2.) You can afford to lose your job. Getting to a payoff involves some
tolerance for risk. Investors take the same risk with their money.

~~~
brational
How would apply this advice to a forture 500 company where "payoff" isn't part
of the equation?

~~~
hodgesrm
It's definitely harder but I would look for your group being in a growing
market that's aligned with the strategic direction of the company. That said,
you have to make an effort to keep your ear to the ground.

If you hear people use the word "cash cow" when referring to your group or you
can't figure out what the company strategy those are signs it might be time to
look for something else.

------
pawelkomarnicki
My dad used to say: "Son, when assessing the company's health, look for two
things: coffee, and toilet paper. If the coffee is not refilled, it means
nobody cares, and the company soon will start having serious trouble. If the
toilet paper is not refilled, it means there's no money whatsoever, and you
should nope out". Worked for me ever since.

------
draz
\- Employee turnover: a large layoff \- Retention: some many know something
you don't, especially at the high levels. \- Restructuring/reorging: there are
companies that view this method as a panacea for all ailments (rather than
treating the underlying issue(s)). \- Projects funded: a concentrated focus on
projects that "reduce cost" or "introduce efficiencies" rather than on growth
and R&D may be indicative of either a contraction to make a company more
palatable for a buy-out, or a simple general state of the money in the bank.

~~~
jermaustin1
I saw all of these in a single year in the IT department of a former client.

\- A new CIO, \- Then within his first week, a layoff of all the network
engineers (except the manager) right before an all heads meeting \- An all
heads meeting where we were to provided an "accounting of our yearly hours"
and it had to equal to 2080 and a reorganization of IT to be instead of a
solutions provider to the company, a help desk. \- Then over the course of the
next three months, a lot of new projects that combined the various services we
consumed (hr, payroll, etc) under one single product, beefed up helpdesk staff
count (all temp/contract workers) and layoffs from various orgs in IT:
security, development, and helpdesk (employees). \- Then over the next two
months, employee staff count dropped further bringing the total at the
beginning from 60 heads to 12. And all the employees were replaced with
contractors.

That said, the company gave out larger bonuses because the bonus pool had
already been agreed to, and the employee count was almost non existent, so
bigger bonuses spread around to the managers (since they were all that was
left). Also the company is still growing elsewhere, just shrinking the places
that are "cost centers".

------
angelofthe0dd
A key indicator I've seen in past companies was when "top skill" or "top
manager" level people suddenly submit their resignation and then spend two
weeks calmly walking around the office with an ear-to-ear grin. Not too long
after that, whisperings of "Why?" start circulating. And shortly after that, I
got an upbeat email from HR about "Exciting new company direction" and
"Rethinking our core strategies for better customer alignment." In all
seriousness, shake-ups and re-alignments are frightening and kill everyone's
morale with fears of uncertainty.

------
scarface74
I've given another answer, but on the meta level, it shouldn't matter to you
if a company is doing well. The only thing that should matter is are you
learning skills for which there is a market? Getting in the mindset that your
"job" does not determine your well being but your skills do.

That mindset presupposes a few things:

A) that you always have your finger on the market and the skills that are in
demand

B) your network is strong - including recruiters.

C) You live below your means and have enough in liquid savings to survive a
job loss and getting a new job.

~~~
johnpython
I completely agree with this approach. The best job security is being good at
what you do. Fortunately, we work in an industry where if you are even
slightly talented, you will have no trouble finding a new job. So, don't worry
too much about how the company is doing. Stick around as long as you are
getting paid, the work is interesting, and you are growing in your
knowledge/skills. Ensure you have savings for any disasters. And always be
scouting the market for new opportunities.

~~~
scarface74
True. I think the only time I really worried about my job is between 2008 -
2011. Between the economy sucking and me not following my own advice, I was in
a very precarious position.

I told myself I would never do that again

------
blowski
It's a bit subjective, and the more general the statement, the less meaning it
would have.

Say a company is becoming corporate and dull, but at the same time becoming
more profitable. Are they in good or bad health? As a short-term shareholder
you might see them in good health, but as an employee you might see them in
bad health.

That said, my experience is to look at team meetings. If they are full of
conflict that is resolved respectfully by the end of the meeting, that's
usually a good sign. If the same person is dominating and everyone else is
quiet, that's a bad sign. If the same arguments keep repeating themselves,
that's a bad sign. If there is no conflict at all, and people just stare out
of the window while others are talking, that's a bad sign.

At bad companies, everyone knows the real story, but nobody says it out loud.
Good people leave, bad people stay, and the problem gets worse.

------
erikb
Also relevant should be the question how to act in different phases. An
unhealthy company is not necessarily dying. And even a dying company is not
necessarily bad for you. It's like with real people. When someone dies some
others start to check out the valuables to get the best for themselves. If you
are working in a brilliant team inside a dying company, you may all get picked
up, get a raise, and be welcomed into new arms. That's one way to get into
Google for instance.

For figuring out the current health status, I'd check:

the product line - is it understandable? is it modern? is it efficient?

the customer base - do they have customers that wouldn't easily change to
alternative options?

the management team - do they have visions? are they cooperating? are they
lying psychopaths, ambitious inventors, calm survivors (thinking Merkel here),
idiotic burocrats?

HR - HR is managements comm channel to the employees. Does the promo material
look good? How close is the promo material to the actual day-to-day work?

People - are there smart people you like to work with? How many of them are
currently joining? How many of them are currently leaving?

Hiring - you are either new and just got hired or there for a long time and
probably at least hear things about the hiring process at the water cooler.
how reasonable does it sound? does it filter out idiots? does it assess
quality attributes like culture? Does the feedback from the interviewers have
influence on the hiring decision (more often than you think they actually just
hire anybody, if they are hiring at all).

~~~
avisser
re: the product line - also, is it sticky/easy to migrate away? I've worked
for places with products that were not great but had institutional customers
who required acts of god to change vendors. We were okay.

~~~
erikb
The list is meant more as a list of variables to compare, not as a list of
possible red flags. If one or two factors are totally bad it still doesn't
necessarily mean that you would call the patient "sick", especially when
corresponding factors are fine.

Strong market position with bad products is usually okay. But if you know that
and then hear about a deal that may risk decreasing the market position, then
you know that there's a good chance it will get a lot worse and you can
already start screening the job market for alternatives.

Also there are some factors, like good colleagues, which can compensate a lot
for you personally, like bad HR department and bureaucratic leadership.

And sometimes things that are bad for you personally are actually good for the
company. For instance if your customer is the government then bureaucratic
leadership may actually be a market advantage over the competition.

------
logingone
Employee experience. The biggest problem at the company I recently left was
inexperience. The company thought they could hire cheap and simply cross train
and up-skill everyone. A FTSE 100 company. Eg a dev manager was a js dev now
managing half the 200 odd dev dept. Hired mostly PHP devs who were all going
to be cross trained as Go devs. My last manager had no management experience
and was also the dept's Go tech lead, with no Go experience - a PHP dev, now
starting at amazon, should be entertaining. Another Go dev on the team an ex-
lawyer with two years dev experience as a ruby dev. The place was
disorganised, frustrating, and not delivering. Toward the end of last year
people started leaving, then more, then more - exodus. The dept has
effectively collapsed as it's now a fraction of the size and a significant
proportion of the remaining devs are new. It won't absolutely collapse because
like all big corps they'll just keep hiring replacements and eventually paper
over the cracks. They're now "restructuring", but the same rookies are still
running the show so they're probably just going to botch it all over again,
just in a different way.

------
ryankennedyio
This is a handy pocket guide. Quite seriously, start looking around if your
gut is telling you to.

[http://wiki.c2.com/?WarningSignsOfCorporateDoom](http://wiki.c2.com/?WarningSignsOfCorporateDoom)

------
kevinmannix
When growth numbers are consistently not hit. Always push for transparency at
a smaller company - if there isn't one already, attempt to implement an all-
hands meeting at least bi-weekly that reviews goals for the quarter / year and
the company's progress. If direction is constantly changing at a 1 or 2 month
cadence, it's likely that there may be a shakeup coming sooner rather than
later.

It's wise to have a bit of cynicism when discussing company goals, progress,
outcomes - things may not always be as bright as they seem. It's a good
exercise to take these numbers and reduce them by a certain percentage, and
see if those numbers are still good for company growth & stability.

~~~
ams6110
It's really hard to tell as an employee.

Management can blow sunshine at these kind of meetings and you'd need second
sight to see the truth.

Last time I was at a company that suddenly imploded everything was great one
week, and then a week later half the staff got laid off.

~~~
kevinmannix
That's true. Stats can be cherry-picked or distorted. That's why it's
preferable to choose the goals / metrics at the start of the period so that
other metrics can't be cherry-picked based on what might show "good" growth to
employees.

------
booleandilemma
I've read that a good way to get an early indicator of future health is to pay
attention to the spending on the small things.

Does your company have paid lunches?

Does it have a snack vending machine or something similar?

A coffee machine with k-cups?

Other little perks that seem insignificant but are nice to have.

If these things start to go away, the company is experiencing financial
stress.

~~~
majewsky
However, if these things never were there in the first place, it just means
that you're not in the SV bubble.

~~~
coldpie
Yeah, here in St Paul, we get only coffee paid for and we're quite healthy, I
think. Not everywhere gets a smorgasbord of free food and snacks and I'm not
convinced it's a worthwhile expense.

~~~
sidlls
Have you ever experienced it? I used to think it was silly, too, but I've come
to appreciate the convenience of not having to buy and pack my own snack
items. It's also much cheaper than salary and benefits to extract extra work
out of younger and naive developers. Sorta like giving the newly hired former
intern the title "senior engineer."

------
bennyp101
The last company I worked at before it was acquired went through a phase of
making everything 'legit' \- which looking back on it now makes sense.

\- Making sure that everybody had their work laptops/phones properly secured,
requiring RSA tags for VPN access etc.

\- Lots of new policies, mainly things that we did anyway, but just fully
documented and meetings to make sure that everybody understood their roles in
them.

\- Lots more focus on 'customer satisfaction' and making sure that deadlines
were met

\- Rewards for helping to clear the backlog of things that needed doing

Basically, a lot of dotting the I's and crossing the T's. Oh, and a lot more
visits from the head guys over in the US.

Edit: Not a startup, just a company doing well.

~~~
Benjammer
Pretty sure things like this can happen for other reasons as well though, like
when a company is going for it's next financing round.

~~~
bennyp101
Very true, I should have prefaced my comment above with "Not a startup"

------
beaker52
I look at a few things. Company structure is quite telling. The relationship
between teams, how teams work together. I usually get a good feel for any
potential dysfunction in an organisation by this. The more splitting up and
dividing there is going on, the more unhealthy it usually is. If the company
is small enough, it should be self organising to some degree of success.

Other questions to consider:

\- Are staff able to be honest?

\- Is the company able to be honest with itself?

\- Does the company have a vision that actually sells itself?

\- Is the company actually pursuing that vision with it's actions?

\- Does the company leverage the intelligence of it's employees, or does it
just hand them work to perform?

------
indigochill
My company's CEO says he looks at the survey answers to "Would you recommend
Company X as a good place to work" as a health indicator of how the company's
doing. Which makes sense to me, since if the employees overall would recommend
it as a place to work, it's probably reasonably stable and rewarding, has
reasonably trusted managers, etc.

I've never delved deep into actual statistics on this, though, so consider
this just an anecdote.

~~~
entrep91
Yup - that's an ENPS survey (more info-> [https://www.fridayfeedback.com/enps-
employee-net-promoter-sc...](https://www.fridayfeedback.com/enps-employee-net-
promoter-score)) and is modeled after the NPS survey organizations send to
customers.

------
Taylor_OD
When the CFO or high performing sales guys leave. They know what they money
situation looks like and are going to be the first to leave when it get's
rough.

------
awinter-py
If you can't get a straight answer from your manager, or your manager doesn't
know, then the company isn't healthy.

Managers (a) love to brag about success and (b) it's their job to retain you,
and part of retention is informing you about the company's financials.

It's totally okay to ask questions like 'how long can we survive if we don't
grow' and 'how long does this continue before we close our doors or fire
people'.

The good news is if you don't know about the health of the company you're
probably too junior to be first on the chopping block.

If you're asking the harder question of 'are we going to be #3 in our sector
in 5 years', you can't trust your managers on that one. They're too
optimistic. Do serious competitive market research like you'd do when starting
a company -- find a way to measure comparative sales, marketing activity, team
strength. Read the linkedin pages of the leadership and key players and look
for missing skillsets.

------
jdavis703
* Late payments to employees (checks, expense reports etc)

* Banker-looking people coming by

* Drawn out fund raising periods with promises every month that next month something will be announced.

* Churn in the C-suite or at VP level.

* Plants being carted away

------
dreamcompiler
One indicator I use is the bullshit level and its derivatives. You can define
bullshit any way you like; my definition is "activity that adds no value to
the company, or (worse) actively impedes people who are adding value to the
company."

If the bullshit level is high, I think about leaving. If the first derivative
of the bullshit level is also positive (bullshit is increasing) I lean heavily
toward leaving. (If the first derivative is negative, the company might be
healthy and pivoting after a setback.)

If both the first and the _second_ derivatives of bullshit are positive
(bullshit is not only increasing but accelerating) it's time to leave
immediately.

------
jasode
Availability of information to analyze will depend on whether it's a public vs
private company.

If it's a public company, an employee can look at the health in many of the
same ways that Warren Buffet would look at it. Look at it's profit & loss
statements for the last few years. If it took on debt, try to find out what
the debt was used for. Look at the credit agencies' bond rating for the
company. If it's not AAA, research why. Look at the company's major customers.
Is it a growing marketplace?

If it's a private company, intelligence gathering is going to be harder and
you often won't have good info until you actually work there. You can try to
synthesize information from glassdoor, Google News (e.g. lawsuits,
settlements, etc), and other sources.

 _> I mainly meant "startup" (i.e. not Fortune 500) _

In this case, I would ask the hiring manager (often the founder) if the
company is cash-flow positive. If not, ask how much "runway" is left before
the company runs out of money. Some founders may push back with _" I can't
disclose financials, yada yada"_ ... maybe because of his paranoia about
competitor espionage. You then have to ask yourself if you're willing to join
a company with limited information. You can join a not-yet-profitable company
because sometimes, it all works out. That said, the idea of concrete financial
dialogue is to _make the risks transparent_ to the employee.

------
golergka
If you're moving to a new open space office that looks for a visitor to be
fantastic but is a pain to actually work in; if your company hires like crazy
without a good idea of what new people will actually be working on; if a CTO
that has been on-hands becomes distant and hires a level of middle technical
managers — all that means that the company is trying to inflate it's value and
be bought. Not necessarily a bad thing, but you can count on the culture shift
pretty soon.

------
robhunter
"Company" is a broad word, and can include a wide variety of different types
of organizations - but if you're talking specifically about startups, look at
the following:

Cash in the Bank / Burn Rate - How much cash does the company have? How much
of that cash is it spending each month? How long until the company reaches
profitability? Could the company be profitable now if it wanted to be?

Headcount - LinkedIn actually tracks this now. How has the total headcount of
the company changed over time, particularly recently? Headcount is certainly
not a measure of success, but a significant decrease in headcount may be a red
flag.

Growth Rate - How fast is the company growing? Ideally you're looking at this
in terms of revenue.

Unit Economics - Even if the company is growing, is it making money from every
sale? Or is it "spending $1 to earn $0.95" ? Getting a handle on the bottoms-
up unit economics of whatever the company is selling is important to really
getting a picture of its overall health.

Grit of the Founders - This may be more important than everything else on the
list! Every startup is going to feel - frequently - like it's in "bad health."
Founders with determination, grit, and the ability to fight through the tough
times will overcome a lot of the problems presented by other items on this
list.

~~~
hammock
Benefit of being an employee in this scenario is that you have access to info
outsiders don't. So take some of your metrics like headcount and unit
economics and make them forward-looking: open job reqs and contract
expirations perhaps.

Other things like grit of the founders can't really be controlled. That will
never change for the life of a company.

------
bsvalley
It's all about the money. Cost cutting such as layoffs, no annual bonus, no
more free snacks, shutting down promising projects.

When a company is doing well, it's usually the opposite.

------
awshepard
Some other warning signs:

\- When you get rid of your QA team in the name of "quality" with everyone
being responsible for testing, but then never provide adequate testing
resources or environments. And when quality and velocity inevitably drop, and
everyone claims they want to improve quality, but it's never actually
prioritized.

\- More generally, when your company is saying one thing and doing another.

\- When your executive team flat out lies, and doesn't even blink when
questioned about it.

------
michaelgburton
One tip I have from years in a company that was undergoing major changes in
its business model is to pay attention to other workers. In my case, the shop
floor guys at an automation company smelled the shift in the wind long before
anyone else, and weren't afraid to call it out. When the vast majority (maybe
500-1k machinists) were let go in rapid succession, it was shocking...except
if you'd paid attention.

------
alex440440
Me and people close to me been a witness to a startup demise several times. In
a startup it's really easy to tell - the product falls short of
revenues/active users expectations, the funding starts to run out, the
management starts to act frantic and invents all kinds of "creative" ways to
"revive" the product, core team members start departing :)

------
champagnepapi
I guess it would depend on the size and status of the company. What I mean by
that, you would judge a startup 1-10 people that is privately held
substantially differently than 1000+ employee publicly traded company. These
indicators that you are looking for are going to be vastly different along the
size spectrum of companies.

------
wolfi1
it does not directly state the health but it indicates if it is a good
employer: number of interns : if the ratio is roughly 1:1 I would quickly look
for another company

------
ethbro
I think employees are a lagging indicator. If the product is being offered at
all, look at customers.

If you're not customer-facing, talk to a customer-facing engineer or even
account manager. "How's the X account?" "Tell me about a customer we've made
successful." Don't accept "The account is fine." _Drill down and ask for
details_ ; they're the only things that matter.

You're internal, so unless your company is really $&#+ed up and silo'd, you
shouldn't have a problem getting a feel with a modicum of social skills.

If you're not making customers happy, and management is proceeding with
business as usual, start looking for a new job.

------
le-mark
One company I was at shipped a hardware product. The hardware would come in
from the manufacturer, the techs on site would flash the firmware, apply
stickers, and ship to customers. When I started they were shipping 10-15 boxes
a day (this was easy to judge, they sat by the entrance and the UPS guy would
come in and get them). Then a few month later, the senior sales guy left, and
a new vp of sales was brought in. Over the course of a year, outgoing devices
went to near zero. That's when I started looking. A year later the company was
still alive, but limping with a skeleton crew of devs and techs. Most who
stayed were fired.

~~~
hammock
The sales team are at the leading edge of product-market fit. I've found that
their level of engagement, or success, or retention, is a great metric.

------
acesubido
I do a simple version of a balanced scorecard:

1) Financial/Stakeholders - Are we raking in revenue? What type of revenue
(high-touch, low-touch. high-volume/low-margin or low-volume/high-margin)? Are
we consistently making this or is it totally dependent on the connections of
1-2 people? Can it be recreated? A bad sign is if people are being shifted to
different projects all the time without one being totally completed/closed.

2) Customer/External Relationships - #1 is dependent on this. You can't make
money with people giving you money. Do we have sufficient customers/market to
provide the type of revenue needed? Do customers like us? What's the market
feedback? A bad sign is if sales is overcommitting through the teeth about the
products/services just to get them onboard.

3) Activities/Internal processes - #2 is dependent on this. You cant
continually create things to sell and build customer relationships without a
proper cycle of operations. Do we have processes? Does the process last long
enough to get feedback? Or are the activities fickle and do not have solid
implementations? A fishy sign is if there seems to be a totally new
sales/engineering process every month, or isn't implemented rigidly and the
org chart changes every 2 quarters.

4) Learning and growth (People-aspect) - Most important. #1, #2, #3 is
dependent on this. You can't have processes/services/products without people.
Based on the product/value that the company is providing to customers, are
they valuing the people that creates this value? (training, leadership roles,
ownership of product/services, etc.). Is there career growth for people that
create this value? A fishy example would be: leadership positions in a
product-based tech startup where there isn't at least one person with a
history of software-engineering/operations and is instead filled with a group
of salesmen. That startup would probably best be a consulting business, since
the way things would be led hampers any kind of effort in building an
effective product development pipeline/operation. Another bad sign for that
type of startup is when key staff engineers are leaving, their positions are
left empty and more managers are hired instead.

------
perlgeek
Cynicism.

If there's none at all, then people likely are afraid to talk openly. When
there's cynicism about everything (revenue goals, vision, hiring, retention,
...), that's a sign that most everybody has lost hope.

------
danpalmer
We have a weekly all-hands where major issues (good or bad) would be
mentioned, and where we get an overview of all core metrics. We have a monthly
all-hands where we go into detail on all the metrics and how each team's
metrics build up to the overall company performance. We know how much we're
targeting/getting in funding rounds. We can ask questions about any of this in
one-to-ones with managers that happen fortnightly.

Basically we're pretty good at transparency, so most people just know all of
this. It's a nice environment to work in!

------
chrismealy
I'm reading a lot of these answers and they could be describing companies that
are hugely profitable and growing. Profitable companies cut back on coffee,
have high turnover, cynical employees etc.

It really doesn't matter. Any company can blow up at any time due to fraud or
mergers or whatever. You might get fired because your boss might want to
replace you with their old college roommate. Or the CEO decides to kill your
whole division because they're chasing some dumb fad.

~~~
vitaminbandit
And extremely fit people sometimes go on diets. But generally, someone on a
diet isn't likely to be extremely fit.

------
bpyne
A good bellwether for a startup is the sales force. They leave when there is
no more money-making opportunity.

(Of course, a startup can still pivot to uncover opportunity.)

------
Spearchucker
Look at churn (staff turnover). It's actually a question I ask in interviews.
If churn is either extraordinarily high or low I want to know why.

------
INTPenis
In my case:

    
    
      * Stock price
      * Attitude of employees
      * Attitude of management
      * Statements and sometimes rumors heard around the office

------
31415
Treat it as a learning opportunity. Three buckets to triage employees into:
(o) the oblivious employees, (i) employees who step up and show initiative,
and (ii) employees who decide to goof off and do nothing since some of the
management chain is likely missing and not being replaced.

Companies that are successful are often unwilling to risk any element of their
success and can be rigid/inflexible.

------
NirDremer
When evaluating startups there are few key matrices \- financial stability -
most notably runway. Taking funding and # of employees can give you a rough
sense of things

\- key people churn

\- business traction graph - depending on the market you are in you can get
some sense through similarweb and the likes

We took it to the next level at Yodas and provide detailed analysis. We help
individuals make better, more informed career decisions.

------
JensRantil
I work at a startup and every second week we run an anonymous
[https://www.menti.com](https://www.menti.com) where all emplyees get to vote
between 1-9 how happy they are at work. It's a simple metric that gives
management some insight about how the company is going.

------
Maro
A simple one is growth. If you're at a startup, it needs to grow. If growth
isn't what it should be, it's decelerating, or it's zero, that's trouble. Wait
for 6-12 months (depending on size and stability of company), if it's not
improving, start looking for other options.

------
blahyawnblah
At my last couple of jobs my raises and bonuses were getting smaller over the
last year or two I was there even though the company was supposedly taking in
more revenue. We weren't expanding or hiring anyone so I started looking for
new jobs. Both went under within a year of me leaving.

------
jaymzcampbell
My main thing is are they at all organised as a whole - if everything is in
disarray and departments have no idea (or interest in) what the others are
doing then it's likely going to be very painful. A company that is pulling in
one direction is an exciting place.

------
0x4f3759df
How fragmented is the industry? A fragmented industry is waiting for a well
capitalized player to consolidate small companies into a industry leader. How
close the founder is to retirement... As the founder approaches age 65, he
might be looking to cash out.

------
TuringNYC
For public companies, it can be an easier task:

\- If executive insiders are buying stock: a good sign!

\- If executive insiders are selling stock: could be a good or bad sign (e.g.,
they might sell because they are purchasing a house.)

\- If executive insiders are selling _everything_ : very bad sign

------
tmaly
Communication, how well are groups within the company communicating? Do groups
tend to re-invent the wheel because they do not know about what other groups
are doing?

Learning, what types of opportunities are employees given to develop skills
and learn new skills?

------
goatcurious
The free-food patterns don't apply on a company which is frugal by nature,
e.g. Amazon

------
tyingq
Make friends with whoever does accounts payable. In many companies, paying
vendors later than agreed terms would be the first sign of trouble. Companies
will often do that before anything directly visible to employees.

~~~
mandude
I heard Trump did this to many of his contractors.

~~~
tyingq
I would guess it happens at every company when financial struggles arise. It's
the easiest lever to pull.

------
if_by_whisky
Quality of snacks

~~~
dovdovdov
or presence of snacks.

~~~
peterkelly
and absence of burnt palapas

------
coldcode
One company I worked for (international) had the new CIO visit our office. He
said "don't worry there will be no layoffs". Two week later they started and
shortly the whole office was gone.

------
HeyLaughingBoy
Generally, when a paycheck bounces, it's a bad sign. Now, in my experience,
the company didn't die for another year after the bounced paychecks, but it
was definitely writing on the wall!

------
a3n
When senior people that you have a personal relationship with, who are no
higher than first level managers and not necessarily managers at all, tell you
that the company is dying. Been there twice.

------
throwawayJPHK
I work for a fairly large manufacturing company in Japan (about 15k
employees). I don't think it will go bankrupt, but I think it is unhealthy and
will eventually be automated with most people being made to leave, or it will
lose a fairly large chunk of its market share and be dismembered and rebuilt
by the American office.

Some things I observed that led me to doing a job search.

> Insurmountable Recruiting difficulties

I was promised a team of 5 junior devs under myself, but that never happened.
There was always a new process, or a new form that had to be filled out; they
got filled in and nothing happened.

Eventually the company started projects to hire people with disadvantaged
career histories (Chinese / Korean residents, women who had left their
previous job after pregnancy, et cetra). I felt this was a great policy but I
was eventually clued into the real origin of the policy and why I never got
the team I was promised.

Apparently, we had (and still have) an excessively poor reputation. Not
criminal; just in terms of leadership (at all levels), salary and work load.
Successful mid-career job seekers could not be expected to join. As such,
disadvantaged workers and the lowest level of university graduate comes (the
kind who has "Tennis Club" as a prominent part of their university
"experience"). My lack of experience at large Japanese corporations is also
why I didn't have the foresight to check 2chan or Vorkers (glassdoor-like
company in Japan)

> New Emmanuel Goldsteins on a regular basis.

"We would be great but... is terrible" is a constant refrain at these sorts of
companies. You can fill in the blank with a C-Level executive, a new employee,
or a clique in the office. If you are assigning real people in a capitalist
enterprise the role of "villain", then the environment is not going to
improve. It is like saving a marriage after you tell friends to take sides.

> Inappropriate focus on loyalty

I have literally experienced a C-level officer making these statements in a
work environment, about people who are so low in rank so as to be below his
level of concern. If a junior accountant leaves for a better position at
another company, one with less stress and better pay, it is the obvious and
correct decision, not an act of "disloyalty".

> No objective source of truth or success

While I ran a business previously, I could be convinced by objective measures
of truth (profit being #1). At my current office, there is no single source of
truth, nor a single measure of success. This creates a difficult spiral of
wasted time and effort when starting projects; in the end, calling in
"outsiders" to resolve the issue (by giving them superuser access over the
project structure) simply delays the hard questions (who is in charge / gets
credit & blame / by what measure are we doing something), and further
infantilizes the office.

> Senior people left and were never replaced

Literally the second most senior person in my part of the org left and wasn't
replaced for more than 2 years. Junior managers reported straight to the
C-suite. His eventual replacement lacked his depth of knowledge and greatly
damaged the collegial atmosphere that existed within the Japanese team before
her hire.

> Easy things are difficult

There are X (where X is a number greater than 5) different approval processes
for me to pay a vendor who has already finished the work.

------
BurningFrog
No news is bad news. If you stop hearing about new developments, the reality
is almost certainly bad.

Looking back to a few layoffs, that was a common sign. I _think_ I can spot it
next time.

------
swalsh
The usually open CEO suddenly starts having closed door meetings.

~~~
lojack
This could also be sign of the opposite depending on the circumstances. For
startups, founders want an exit when the company is at its healthiest.

------
just4themoney
Usually the biggest indication is cutting salary and benefits, I'm including
not giving raises as a salary cut. Cutting vacation days is definitely a
salary cut.

------
aey
Free food :). The last Fortune 500 I worked at the number of meetings with
food provided was highly correlated with how well the stock performed durring
earning.

------
vimarshk
Sales = Company health When the company is not able to make $$ due to bad
product, employee turnaround, Sales or culture it is in bad health.

------
Apocryphon
Cutting vacation days was mentioned. I'm wondering if switching from fixed
vacation days to unlimited is also a sign of penny-pinching.

------
afdfabdcfaadfcc
Glassdoor reviews.

------
dgcoffman
Users and revenue.

User and revenue growth rate.

One bad sign is if the CEO is replaced. Another bad sign is if the company
can't figure out how to make money.

------
inthewoods
Status of accounts payable - is the company stretching out payments to
vendors? Are vendors getting angry or lawyering up?

------
wiz21c
marketing team slices its customers pool into : customer-we'll-soon-contact,
potential customers, potential leads, short-list-customers, customers with who
we have very good relationships, customers who'll introduces to even bigger
customers. You get it, many types of customers except the paying-type...

------
hammock
Executive engagement, number of open job reqs, revenue goals (not necessarily
growth or metrics of past)

------
peterkelly
If you find yourself asking questions like this, that's a sign something might
be awry.

~~~
OpenDrapery
If you are not asking questions like this, you may just be one of the
willfully oblivious ditch diggers who is just there to work. And that's fine.

Even in the days of galley slaves, there was probably only a small percentage
of rowers who actually wondered where they were going. Most people just shut
up and row.

------
mruniverse
CFO left a year after IPO. Then we had things that seemed like busy work.

------
dev360
I would look at Culture and Financial. A lot of other things are fixable.

------
gagabity
They ask you for a list of all the passwords you control.

------
SFJulie
turn over.

A "normal turn over" in IT is 10%

In normal companies it is less.

If more, flee.

------
afdfabdcfaadfcc
Glassdoor reviews

------
scarface74
Simple answer: Any startup that isn't profitable isn't healthy.

More importantly, any company that has negative marginal profit, is definitely
not healthy (i.e. Uber)

------
UseofWeapons1
The easist method is by trend in employee count. If headcount is rising,
that's a good indicator, if it's falling, that's generally bad. Stable can be
perfectly fine, or bad, depending on the company. You may have concerns about
the magnitude of growth, or claim lay-offs were justified or turnover is
natural, but the trend generally holds.

You should also pay attention to other employees; ask yourself why folks who
leave are leaving. This seems easy, but I know one start-up well where a small
trickle of occasional high-level departures turned into an eventual flood and
bankruptcy.

Beyond that, it's the usual. Anything you can tell about sales growth,
competitive intensity, leadership, etc. are all helpful and good data points.

~~~
blowski
Rising headcount is not necessarily a good sign. To the contrary, it's often a
sign that the company is haemorrhaging cash, hoping that if they hire enough
staff something magic will happen before time runs out.

~~~
le-mark
There's also the idea that head count can signal revenue, or expected revenue.
Companies looking to be bought can go on hiring sprees to appear more
healthier to potential buyers. I experienced this at one company, when the new
owner installed their CEO, the first thing he did was slash head count.

