
‘The Wire’ – Game Day - pmcpinto
https://theundefeated.com/features/the-wire-oral-history-game-day/
======
seansoutpost
In my opinion this is the greatest, television series of all time. The way
every loose end is tied up and they show that really nothing has changed, the
cycle just repeats itself... it's a master stroke. I moved to Baltimore years
after the series ended, but it could still have been made here today. Just
with smartphones and encryption. The players are stil the same and the city is
pretty much unchanged in terms of the underlying issues.

And my apartment is across the street from stringers copy shop :)

~~~
Larrikin
I agree that its the greatest TV show of all time. I used to watch the entire
thing once a year and always saw something new that I had missed before. I
initially didn't like season 2, and its still my least favorite season, but
after finishing the series you realize how important the season was to the
overall story in fleshing out the world.

It sadly has begun to show its age.

~~~
blazespin
Season 2 was huge and i think very prophetic. The whole Trump movement is
based on season 2.

~~~
tutufan
Wat?

~~~
ionised
Jobs being lost to automation and globalisation

------
sleepydog
I think my favorite (hard to choose, there are so many) story line in The Wire
is that of Ellis Carver. You have a character who, at the start, views the
community as a war zone and himself as a soldier.

Then within S3 and S4 he learns that a cop needs to be part of the community;
he needs to know the people he's policing, and they need to know him. There's
a great scene where he starts to chase down a group of hooligans and stops
short, realizing "I don't need to chase these kids. I know their parents. I
know where they hang."

Theres even the parallel with his former partner Herc who sticks to his
soldierly ways and is eventually disgraced.

~~~
nafizh
Don't forget Herc is the one who eventually gave the phone number of Marlo
Stanfield to Carver from Levy's desk. That number was crucial in the final
season.

~~~
annamargot
But did Herb give Carver the phone number so Marlo would need a lawyer / to
generate more fees for Levy? Or was it to see Marlo go down?

------
dforrestwilson
So I used to work intelligence covering Afghanistan and Pakistan for the U.S.
as a linguist.

People always ask me if my old job was like the show 24 or Homeland. I always
tell them it was more like The Wire.

~~~
jftuga
I actually met a retired Baltimore cop a few years ago in Orlando and asked
him about the show. He said The Wire very accurately portrayed his job & the
city.

~~~
m0nty
Ed Burns, the series "script consultant" (if that's the right term) was a
Baltimore cop, and David Simon spent many, many hours hanging out on street
corners with Baltimore corner boys, first convincing them he wasn't a cop,
then getting them to talk to him.

The _Homicide_ book is an excellent start to his writing about Baltimore, and
led to the series _Homicide: Life on the Street_ , which paved the way for
_The Wire_. Apart from the research, he has such a fantastic ear for dialogue
- I can hear real voices when his characters talk, not least because many of
them are based on real people (for example, both Jay Landsman [The Wire] and
John Munch [Homicide] are based on the same real-life person).

It's so good in so many ways, but ultimately for me it shows its characters as
rational and understandable, whichever side of the law they are on. Series 4
and 5 are not as strong as the first three, but still head-and-shoulders above
most other shows. I know some people will prefer _Breaking Bad_ and _The
Sopranos_ , but (good as those shows are) _The Wire_ is peak TV imo.

~~~
praneshp
Actually the real life Jay Landsman shows up in The Wire, as Dennis Mello. He
takes over after Bunny Colvin is fired for Hamsterdam.

> I know some people will prefer Breaking Bad and The Sopranos, but (good as
> those shows are) The Wire is peak TV imo

I watched The Wire, Breaking Bad and Mad Men in the first 6 months into my
first job. It was the most stressful time of my life, but I don't regret it at
all.

------
dmourati
My favorite part of the show is the Baltimore dialect. If you are casually
watching an episode or two for the first time, there is no way you can grok
all the nuances of the local diction. Over time, you start to re-hear words,
phrases, pronunciations, and slang and you feel like you are in on it. Then
you realize, the diction is different across the regional characters.
Sometimes, even the characters can't understand one another.

This joy of language combines with the fact that surveillance and
eavesdropping play such central and indeed titular roles in the show. You then
mix in the racial element for example having the black office secretary
translating street hood lingo to the white cops listening in. It just all fits
together beautifully.

~~~
misiti3780
It all comes full circle when he tells Herc he deserved to be done. "... we
didnt think it matters but it matters, it all matters ..."

greatest show ever created, his books awesome too. i also loved Treme.

------
danso
This bit made me laugh:

> _It seemed kind of strange to me, but David Simon said he had heard about
> something like that before when he was [at] The Baltimore Sun. I mostly was
> excited that I was having an episode that I had more than two scenes in. Me
> and Domenick Lombardozzi referred to it as my Taxi Driver episode, because
> it’s my favorite movie._

I've read just about every book excerpt/oral history/etc I've been able to
find about The Wire, and I've read about Gilliam's and Lombardozzi's and
others' recollections on how they were frustrated at times about their
scene/line counts. No matter how much I read these behind-the-scenes anecdotes
I still have a moment of fourth-wall-breaking-wtf, because the thought of The
Wire having the characteristics common to any other kind of entertainment,
with writers' rooms and cut scenes and actors demanding more minutes, feels so
alien. _Of course_ it's that way, but my mild confusion/shock is a testament
to how seamless and real the show and its content and its pacing feel.

------
weston
Excellent read. Still arguably the greatest tv show ever made. The Wire is
essentialy a classic Russian novel but in the television medium.

~~~
agmcleod
Yeah it's my favourite for sure. I guess depending on how game of thrones
ends, it may be a high contender. Breaking bad was amazing too, but the wire
just felt so real.

~~~
BoiledCabbage
> I guess depending on how game of thrones ends, it may be a high contender.

I don't think you can really compare the two. The wire was literary and so
authentic, Game of Thrones cinematic and epic. They are the two best
television shows made - but in different spaces.

Breaking bad was good but sat in the middle and not as good as either.

But usually the literary honest film holds up better over time than the epic
special effects one.

~~~
RodericDay
I think The Wire was okay, and that Game of Thrones is really bad, so I'm just
gonna weigh in and emphatically disagree with your assessment that "they are
the two best television shows made".

~~~
Matachines
Was there any point to this comment other than letting us know what you don't
like?

~~~
RodericDay
Yeah, letting other people know that it's okay not to like those shows. I
enjoy and upvote when people voice dissenting opinions, so I like to do it
too.

~~~
johnfn
This is Hacker News, my friend. Anyone who has a negative opinion is showered
with praise and upvotes for being a contrarian and a bold ideologue. (Unless
that opinion is about Rust, or, apparently, TV.) Don't just take my word on
it- go see any product launch here, from the small leagues all the way to
Musk's latest work, and watch as people crap on it. (And get upvotes.)

To be honest, I'm not impressed with people who are contrarian for the sake of
being contrarian. Like yourself, it triggers some circuitry in the brains of
many HNers that cause them to enjoy it, even if the actual content of the post
is not as high as an equivalent, non-contrarian post. If you understand this
circuitry is being fired, you can see the contrarianism for what it really is.

~~~
Boothroid
A contrarian to the contrarians!

~~~
johnfn
I know, right? This clearly proves I am more special and intelligent and...
aw, crap.

In all seriousness though, the constant contrarianness on display here _is_
tiring. Not sure how else to put it.

------
vkjv
Lots of people have already commented on the accuracy of the content, but, as
a life long resident of Baltimore, what struck me was the dead on accents.

Baltimore has a very distinct, but evolving sound and vocabulary. Cinema
usually can't seem to escape the 1960s "hon" cliche. I was certain that Idris
Elba had to be from Baltimore until I learned otherwise.

~~~
m0nty
Idris Elba and Dominic West both caught me by surprise, given that I'm English
and I was convinced they were both American. Then I heard Idris in another
production talking proper London ...

Discussion of his accent here from a dialect coach, "This is amazing":

[https://youtu.be/NvDvESEXcgE?t=473](https://youtu.be/NvDvESEXcgE?t=473)

~~~
Anthony-G
Having never seen either actor in anything else before The Wire, I too was
convinced that they were American. While watching the scene where McNulty went
undercover to play an English visitor to Baltimore, I thought his accent was
laughably bad – and that it was intentionally bad to add even more humour to
that scene. I was doubly impressed when I later found out Dominic West
actually is English and had even studied in Trinity College, Dublin (my
adopted home).

~~~
therealdrag0
I had to look that scene up:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBL2Wq5YjSw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBL2Wq5YjSw)

Compared to:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdbWsX6h4eo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdbWsX6h4eo)

------
MrsPeaches
Highly recommend the book The Corner by the show's creators.

Phenomenal book that served as an inspiration for The Wire.

[https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0767900316](https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0767900316)

~~~
sdwisely
There was also the corner miniseries too!

[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0224853/](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0224853/)

------
blazespin
Simon - I would prefer to be living in [a] country where The Wire was less
relevant 15 years later. I would have much preferred to think of the show as
being anachronistic.

------
danso
The exchange between Seth Gilliam and David Simon on the use of the n-word was
interesting to read in retrospect of the kefluffle Simon got into on Twitter
when he used it (as a form of satire):
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-
entertainment/w...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-
entertainment/wp/2016/09/20/the-wire-creator-david-simon-used-the-n-word-to-
criticize-sean-hannity-nope/)

------
sizzzzlerz
Great show with great scripts, characters, and actors who portrayed them. I'd
didn't care for season 2 when I was watching it but came around to really
liking it when I'd finished the series. My favorite part, though, was the
Hampsterdam scenes. It was as close as we get to actually legalizing drugs. I
just can't call it best show ever when comparing against The Sopranos,
Breaking Bad, and Mad Men. They're all in the top 4.

------
danso
Apparently Sports Illustrated ran a retrospective on this very same episode a
month ago (h/t r/thewire):

[https://www.si.com/nba/2017/04/17/the-wire-oral-history-
balt...](https://www.si.com/nba/2017/04/17/the-wire-oral-history-baltimore-
basketball-nba)

------
pasbesoin
I've been putting off watching "The Wire" \-- I stopped shortly into season 1
-- because I just couldn't take any more depressing scenarios in my life.

Yes, this is a personal comment, and probably as such, OT.

But, it's time. As another commenter says, "the cycle repeats."

I got on the wrong side of that cycle. As a quippy quote on Facebook just
reminded me again, yesterday, "The fears we don't face become our limits."

When Trump was elected, I started rewatching "The West Wing."

(By the way, many of the issues we currently face -- issues, not personalities
-- the writers of that show addressed in interesting and informative fashion.)

It's time for the counter-point.

Not quite out there, yet. Still watching a show. But, closer to the world we
live in.

Sorry for the personal comment, here, in a way.

Today's little quote from the same source, on FB: "Be very careful what you
think. Your thoughts run your life."

A reason I held off on watching "The Wire."

But it's time, now.

------
jftuga
Such a great show.

------
packetized
Queen stay the queen.

------
RodericDay
The Wire was a good show for its time but it's already showing a lot of age.

Badass gay character, humanized gangsters, contra-Reaganesque attitude to
drugs, aim at corruption and money, etc. were pretty great for its time, but
now that a lot of media has caught up, the lackluster areas stick out a lot
more.

It's got liberal sensibilities, not leftist ones.

For example, S2 is about the shipping container women. McNulty swears she
won't treat them like a mere blip or statistic, but will remember their
humanity. At the end of S2, they have a gag scene where McNulty goes
"undercover" at a whorehouse, and gets serviced by some prostitutes, while
everyone at base overhearing the mike goes "ooooh youuu McNulty".

I think this shallow and circumscribed commitment to nominal values, not fully
comprehending the extent to which they require a fundamental shift in
approach, is pretty liberal.

There's also plenty of blaming of teacher's unions for shutting down
"innovative" approaches. All the issues chalked up to "capitalism" have to do
with individual corruption and not the regular brutal application of market
logic to human problems (eg: corrupt construction agencies wanting bribes vs.
regular white citizens protecting their interests).

but perhaps the most anti-leftist aspect of them all is how the show is
utterly grim and hopeless and nothing ever changes. all radical initiatives
are shut down and ruin lives, and it works more as a cautionary tale than an
inspiration. if all media is propaganda, The Wire works as propaganda for
obedient incrementalism, and decidedly against anything revolutionary.

~~~
blackbagboys
It would be impossible to make a realistic show that adhered strictly to a
leftist teleology.

~~~
grzm
It would be impossible to make a realistic show that adhered strictly to _any_
teleology.

------
Murkin
Sad how the last season ruined it. All characters lost their senses.

~~~
dualboot
I see this all of the time. I don't understand?

During the final season McNulty flipped the script and began behaving in the
same way that the city/department behaved.

It was purely to illustrate that if a human behaved the way that the Baltimore
Police Department behaved you would view it as a self-destructive deranged
person surrounded by a cast of enabling supporters with questionable morals.

I, personally, thought it was brilliant.

~~~
agmcleod
mcnulty was a bit more understandable, but Freamon was pretty straight cut, it
just felt so out of character. I think part of the problem too is that season
4 was so amazing.

~~~
davewritescode
Part of what made the show great is that it always managed to feel grounded
and real. It had an almost documentary quality to it, while still remaining a
work of fiction.

Season 5 loses that feeling. While it was completely enjoyable, I think it was
missing something.

