
DiscussHN: “Plastic = Bad”? - sharcerer
https://twitter.com/_HannahRitchie/status/1215212756678385664
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ksaj
We had a bad side effect here in Ontario (Canada) not so long ago. The LCBO
(liquor store) was using plant-based "plastic" biodegradable bags. Then our
crack- and alcohol- addicted mayor (Rob Ford) passed a bylaw in Toronto so
stores had to charge 5 cents per plastic bag. That sounds like a good idea,
except that the biodegradable plant-based bags were still considered plastic.
So, the liquor store stopped using them entirely, and opted to stick to
standard brown paper bags, which haven't nearly the strength of the plant-
based bags.

Eventually that law was given up because it was hugely unsuccessful - people
didn't even slow their usage of plastic bags, and so a lot of resentment
developed since no environmental impact was to be found, and stores were
clearly happy to profit off of using super-cheap low-quality plastic bags they
still charge 5 cents for.

Several years later, still _nobody_ is providing or using the biodegradable
plant-based bags. People seem happier, or at least numbed to the idea of
paying extra for plastic bags, than either carrying their own bags, or turning
to other solutions.

BTW: The lcbo bags were made out of the same plant-based material as used in
bio-degradable cutlery, which likewise has pretty much failed to replace
single-use plastic ones. For no reason, since there is clearly no shortage of
plant-based material from which to manufacture them.

I believe there to be a serious marketing problem when it comes to already
existing solutions.

~~~
sharcerer
Nice anecdote. Yeah, I have realised that just like everywhere else, virtue
signalling doesn't, won't work. There has to be SITG(skin in the game),
incentive alignment among all parties involved : now achieve this either via
good policy(which is needed for a lot of solutions eg:worked for solar,elec
cars), or free market or both.

Also, many policies confuse waste,plastic waste with climate change. There's
overlap, but for lower earth temperature, policies are going to make the
biggest change, not individuals. And Now I am realizing I got carried away.

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byoung2
We can be sensible about it...for example I don't like using straws to drink,
so I don't ask for one. If I get a burger to go I'll refuse ketchup packets
and just use the bottle at home. And at the grocery store I bring my own bags.
These are small changes that hardly impact my life, but if millions of people
do it, then serious changes can happen.

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sharcerer
from the tweet:

Simple message of "plastic = bad" that can lead to complete plastic bans has
potential to backfire & create larger env impacts.

Because:

– food packaging is important in preventing food waste

– plastic alternatives can have larger environmental impacts.

Links:

[https://www.bbc.com/news/science-
environment-51040155](https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-51040155)

[https://ourworldindata.org/faq-on-plastics#are-plastic-
alter...](https://ourworldindata.org/faq-on-plastics#are-plastic-alternatives-
better-for-the-environment)

2018 article:

[https://news.sky.com/story/amp/plastic-doesnt-reduce-food-
wa...](https://news.sky.com/story/amp/plastic-doesnt-reduce-food-waste-study-
finds-11324558?__twitter_impression=true)

