
Heart Patient Risk From iPad2 Found by 14-Year-Old - codegeek
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-09/heart-patient-risk-from-ipad2-found-by-14-year-old.html
======
tankbot
Bloomberg, in typical sensationalist fashion, calls this a "dangerous iPad2
flaw" when defibrillator patients are already educated about the risk of
magnets and Apple's manual informs users of the magnets and warns against this
exact problem.

They continue (in the video) and lump pacemakers into the warning even though
their own article specifies that pacemakers were unaffected: "The iPad2 didn’t
interfere with four pacemakers or a loop-recorder, which were also tested."

tl;dr - 14 year old's dad does her science fair project for her and doesn't
win. Nobody learns anything and the news gets it all wrong.

~~~
ctdonath
Not fair.

It was her idea, she concocted the theory, investigation and reported the
results. Insofar as she didn't do part of the full experiment, no teenager
should be allowed to carry out casual experiments involving shutting off life-
support equipment on heart patients - duh, let an adult handle that bit. That
she didn't win doesn't mean anything more than the winners were better
projects, drama aside.

People DID learn something. Awareness is spreading about the issues of
proliferation of magnets strong enough to cause false inputs to implanted
medical devices.

The only thing the news got wrong was the subtle jab at Apple, rather than a
more neutral reference to the many magnet-containing products which have
similar odds of the same problem.

~~~
elithrar
> It was her idea, she concocted the theory, investigation and reported the
> results.

As far as Bloomberg reports. Her father is hinted as being a heart surgeon
("given her father's specialty") but it's never explicitly pointed out in the
article.

She's obviously extremely intelligent—and I have no qualms with a 14 yo
getting some hints from their parents for a project idea—but the article seems
designed to sensationalise an issue that has long existed.

"Apple story == page views".

~~~
tenderpalms
Dad is a cardiac electrophysiologist.

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carbocation
See also [1] for a case caused by the hard drive of a laptop.

Fundamentally, this is a consequence of the decision of manufacturers such as
Medtronic to use a magnetic field to temporarily disable implantable
cardioverters/defibrillators. Note that magnetic fields do different things
for ICDs produced by different manufacturers.

[1] = <https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22353166>

[2] = <http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/585151_2>

------
ctdonath
Having a pacemaker, I've been quietly paranoid about _any_ magnets coming
anywhere close to it. That includes keeping the iPad away from the area, both
because of magnets and the radio transmitter.

One of the first warnings I got about having one was to not dangle earbuds
around my neck where they would hang in front of my left shoulder. Other
warnings about keeping distance from generators, magnets, shoulder-pressed
cell phones, store theft-deterrent sensors, and even chainsaws (cardiologist &
I got a kick out of wondering which would kill me first: the alternator's
fields knocking out the pacer, or my passed-out fall into the still-spinning
blade). MRIs...just don't even go there.

The problem with magnets is more complex than perhaps obvious. There's bad
input, and then there's damage. What the girl is referring to is quite
legitimate: defibrillators and pacemakers typically allow proximity of a
magnet as a "master override" function. When I suffered an unrelated instance
of atrial flutter (heart decided to run at 350bpm, pacemaker hit the brakes at
150...for 12 hours), the ER doc not having a diagnostic system handy forced
the pacemaker to reduce to a much more humane rate by placing a good-sized
magnet over the pacemaker; this allowed a more relaxed 2-hour wait for a
technician to arrive and better diagnose & manage the problem (the subsequent
drive-thru heart surgery is another story). She's raising awareness that
sometimes this "master override" function can be induced improperly and even
unknowingly, leaving the patient in a high-risk condition without knowing
until periodic diagnostics or medical failure. A related issue she may
tangentially raise awareness of is outright damage, with induced currents
overstimulating the patient or frying the electronics (see aforementioned
chainsaw issue).

She's raising a good issue. With the proliferation of tiny super-magnets, an
enduring technical problem must be revisited: how to provide a low/no-impact
way to essentially "hit the reset button" on an implanted medical device when
there is no visible/external contacts? Not long ago, using a strong magnet to
activate a magnetic switch was a sensible solution. Today, stronger magnetic
fields are coming closer more often, risking activating a "safe/master mode",
and there's not much way to alert anyone to the condition.

To address a few other points: Yes, any small but strong magnets like the
magsafe plug are a possible problem. It's not an EMI problem so much as false
input to a magnetic sensor. Defibrillators and pacemakers face the same basic
problem, but the former moreso because the "master override" function needed
is a function shutdown (need a way to turn it off and keep it off), while the
latter responds in a more benign manner.

Glad to hear someone raising awareness of the issue. Amused that it's a child
figuring it out and publicizing it. Thanks, kid!

~~~
DigitalJack
Very informative post!

One comment, the magnet for magsafe power supplies is actually in the laptop,
not the plug.

Have you heard about people implanting a tiny magnet in their pinky finger? I
think they've been mentioned on HN before... could give you insight about
magnetic fields around you (assuming it was weak enough not to be a cause for
concern itself).

EDIT: past story on the implants.

[http://www.iamdann.com/2012/03/21/my-magnet-implant-body-
mod...](http://www.iamdann.com/2012/03/21/my-magnet-implant-body-modification)

<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3734130>

~~~
ctdonath
Glad to know that magnet isn't where I thought it is.

Yeah, I've heard of the magnetic finger modification. I promptly was concerned
about it, not quite sure why but favor caution; sure wouldn't want one given
the possible consequences. Since earbud magnets are enough to warrant concern,
I'll avoid what is likely more powerful.

Woolrich has a line of shirts I want which feature magnetic "button". Can't
convince myself they wouldn't be a problem.

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tnvaught
The construction of her acronym shows how brilliant (and snarky about
acronyms) she truly is.

~~~
eridius
I can't find the acronym. Is it in the video? Because I'm not watching a
video.

~~~
idupree
I think this is the title (I had to web-search)
<https://www.usc.edu/CSSF/Current/Projects/33084.pdf>

"EMIT: Does iPad Use in Patients with Implantable Cardiac Rhythm Devices Cause
Electromagnetic Interference?"

(EMIT looks intended to be an acronym, but what do the letters stand for?)

~~~
tenderpalms
You can see it in this picture:
<http://www.bloomberg.com/image/iZbO1N0jA7eY.jpg>

As I commented above, this is usual practice for cardiology publications. And
her dad is a cardiology subspecialist.

------
carbocation
> " _Walter Chien, a cardiac electrophysiologist, helped his daughter
> coordinate the patient testing._ "

Maybe this is why she didn't win first place? At any rate, if this finding
holds up, this is a serious problem.

 _Edit_ : "the project was beat out for the top spot by work on
electromagnetics and on the effect of punctuation mark placement in keyboards
on carpal tunnel syndrome."

So I guess she's just up against really stiff competition.

~~~
esmansf
Assuming that she was competing for the Intel Science and Engineering Fair
(ISEF), as a former judge, I can say that her project has a major red flag.
One of the disqualification criteria applied to projects is to examine if an
Institutional Review Board (IRB) properly vetted her project and approved
experimention on human subjects. From my perspective, if her paperwork was
anything less than pristine, signed, and notarized, I could not imagine a
judging committee electing it to first place.

~~~
ctdonath
I did the ISEF as a kid (speech recognition on an original IBM PC). Seriously
tough competition there.

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rthomas6
Would this happen with any sufficiently powerful magnet? Also, does anybody
know why the magnets would turn off a pacemaker? Pacemakers try very hard to
filter out EMI.

Edit: Implanted defibrillators, not pacemakers

~~~
vacri
If the pacemaker develops a fault, or you're seeing your doctor and they want
to see your natural rhythm, or several other situations where you want to go
'natural' for a while. There's a leaf switch inside - it's a design feature,
not a fault.

You do need a decent magnetic field next to the pacemaker - having it near a
fridge magnet while you open the fridge looking to sneak a snack isn't going
to do it.

I used to work as a neuro tech, and we would occasionally reprogram vagus
nerve stimulators (sort of a defibrillator for the vagus nerve). Every few
minutes it would send a charge up the vagus nerve, which could scramble
rhythms that might be developing into a seizure. You could dell when it was
firing if the person was talking - every few minutes, their voice would go
funny for a couple of seconds as the vocal chords are innervated by the vagus.
It wasn't the most pleasant experience, but you did get used to it, and it was
better than the general level of seizures you'd have to have to get one
implanted in the first place.

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cma
I wonder if the magsafe (magdeadly?) socket has the same issue; it is probably
weaker overall since you can hold an ipad up by its cover but can't come close
to holding a macbook air by its plug.

