
Setting the Record Straight on Tor - _mayo
http://corporate.comcast.com/comcast-voices/setting-the-record-straight-on-tor
======
noonespecial
Comcast likely cares very much if you run a Tor _exit_. They don't care at all
(and probably can't even tell) if you just use the browser bundle.

Someone was likely threatened with disconnection for the former. This is
probably the source of the confusion.

~~~
opendais
Eh?

[https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-
talk/2011-June/02...](https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-
talk/2011-June/020657.html)

[http://www.dailydot.com/politics/six-steps-nsa-attack-
tor/](http://www.dailydot.com/politics/six-steps-nsa-attack-tor/)

Yes they can tell if you use TOR. TOR is like a VPN, it can be detected _but_
it doesn't tell the ISP what you are doing while you use it.

~~~
Monkeyget
They don't know what's going on if you are a user or an intermediate node.

If you are an exit node they see all the traffic in clear.

~~~
opendais
Sorry, I thought the context was clear. I was talking about an end user as
described in the OP.

Yes, if its an exit node that is the case.

------
polarix
It's a _very_ good sign that Comcast is posting this kind of correction. It
indicates that they perceive a broad social consensus that supporting internet
anonymity is a crucial responsibility of an ISP, and lends credence to the
ongoing importance of net neutrality.

It also, as a secondary effect, might incline us to look more favorably on
Comcast's arguments regarding backbone capacity negotiations.

~~~
opendais
They didn't actually say they didn't monitor Tor tho. :/

That is why I'm kinda amused by the positive posts.

They said they don't monitor people's browsers and http connections. TOR
wouldn't look like that at all to them. Its a lie of omission. They clearly
monitor Torrents, etc.

~~~
polarix
Even if the details weren't entirely consistent, the fact that they made any
sort of statement at all is cause for optimism.

------
eli
It's a little scary how quickly an unsourced and highly questionable story can
spread when it feeds a popular narrative (in this case that Comcast is evil).

~~~
slg
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its
shoes." ~ Mark Twain, Winston Churchill, Jonathan Swift, or some other person
who said things good.

Whoever said it, they said it before the dawn of the internet. What was once a
figurative embellishment is now the literal truth. This story was almost
everywhere on social media before any of the high level people at Comcast had
the chance to put their shoes on and show up at work on Monday morning to
comment on it.

~~~
jlivingood
Great quote!

------
Gregordinary
"Customers are free to use their Xfinity Internet service to visit any
website, use any app, and so forth."

Any app, but not on any device as I found out when I tried to activate HBO GO
on a Roku. Apparently if Comcast is your ISP, you cannot use HBO GO on your
Roku (or PS3 for that matter).

EDIT: You can see what devices are supported here:
[http://www.hbogo.com/activate/](http://www.hbogo.com/activate/)

~~~
chrisBob
Sort of.

Its important to note that there is a difference between what they _restrict_
in the way of internet traffic, and what they _sponsor_ in terms of allowing
access to specific content over the internet.

The services that you log into via your Comcast account (I use HBO Go, HGTV,
NBC Live Extra...) are provided by an agreement between the content provider
and the carrier. They aren't stopping you from using HBO Go on a Roku with
their internet service, and your friend with FiOS can hook his Roku up and
watch shows at your house over your Xfinity connection.

~~~
Gregordinary
That's a fair distinction.

I guess it's more that you cannot activate HBO Go on a Roku using your Comcast
credentials as Comcast is not an option in that configuration. Not that they
block the traffic or something.

I agree with the distinction, still just as irritated.

------
clubhi
Today we should be thankful that our ruler has a good policy on Tor. Should
they change their mind we could do nothing about it.

~~~
mindslight
The _only_ way to change this is to make it so that enough people are using
(mutually-indistinguishable) encrypted protocols, that blocking such protocols
would cripple the ISP's business.

------
dang
The earlier thread on this,
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8318652](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8318652),
was (appropriately) flagged by users. But it did have a judicious top comment.

------
fsk141
I know it's a word vomit blast, but tried to post this comment on the page; I
doubt it'll get approved or replied to...

" ...educational and voluntary copyright program." \-- volunteer, hum, afaik
_and from what I recall from seeing these in the past_ ; by clicking on _any_
of the links in one of those emails, you are admitting guilt. Please correct
me if I'm wrong, but I take it that if you respond to these you admit that you
downloaded something & if you just ignore there is nothing you (comcast) can
do to prove otherwise (what if you have an open network, share your key with
friends, etc.) Likewise, who would want to volunteer for a program that
profiles what their downloading. While you say you don't "terminate" users
based on copyright infringement, the fact is that you are monitoring your
users to differentiate who's doing what. I don't want to sound like a
conspiracy theorist, but I don't believe this PR stunt. I know it means
nothing, since I'm from the internet (and who should take me seriously), but
I've been a corporate customer, and have worked with residential users of
comcast, and would not doubt nefarious monitoring. If you would like anyone to
take you seriously proof would be nice, not just a inconsequential mess of
"yeah, we promise we're not monitoring you, and I, Jason, am using tor, so
it's okay." For one you're the VP, no one would dare step on your toes, you
don't count! "

~~~
eli
You have badly misunderstood what the copyright program is and how it works.
The ISP volunteered to participate, not the user. And they don't monitor
traffic for violations, they accept notices of violations observered by
outside content companies.

------
rnovak
_We do not terminate customers for violating the Copyright Alert System (aka
"six strikes"), which is a non-punitive, educational and voluntary copyright
program._

Since when is this "voluntary"? I'm guessing in that if you choose not to
subscribe to any ISP, I guess you wouldn't be 'enrolled' in the program, but
you also wouldn't have internet service, about as 'voluntary' as breathing is
to life.

~~~
freehunter
It's voluntary in that the ISP is not forced into using it. They just force
you to use it.

------
bowlofpetunias
Whatever may be wrong with Comcast (connectivity-wise I'm soooo glad I don't
live in the US), this is absolutely exemplary damage control PR.

Clear, accessible, no weasel words, no lawyer-speak, to the point and with a
human touch to round it of.

~~~
opendais
Eh? They stated they didn't monitor stuff via a browser.

The thing is, a client connection to the TOR network wouldn't look like a HTTP
request. So "No we don't monitor your browser traffic" is the equivalent of
saying "Yes, we do monitor if you do something other than use a browser to
surf the web" in a situation where the object of discussion isn't a browser.

------
opendais
> Comcast doesn’t monitor our customer’s browser software, web surfing or
> online history.

I'd take this as evidence they monitor every connection that isn't over http
... which happens to include VPNs and Tor. Otherwise, they would have just
said "We do not monitor your internet connection except to gather aggregate
statistics for billing purposes".

~~~
imacomputer2
"Comcast doesn’t monitor our customer’s browser software, web surfing or
online history." That would imply that they don't even have a log of what
requests are passing through their system. I find that extremely hard to
believe.

~~~
daveloyall
Why would a road keep a copy of cars that traverse it? The 'requests' aren't
addressed to Comcast, they are addressed to... well, news.ycombinator.com for
example.

~~~
opendais
May I suggest you research that analogy?

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_light_control_and_coord...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_light_control_and_coordination)

[http://www.state.nj.us/transportation/business/videolog/](http://www.state.nj.us/transportation/business/videolog/)

"The New Jersey Department of Transportation (NJDOT) maintains traffic cameras
on many interstates and other New Jersey State highway systems. The cameras
are mounted on poles and record traffic conditions, traffic delays, incidents
and weather conditions. They are monitored around the clock at NJDOT's
Statewide Traffic Management Center.

In the Department's video camera system, video is recorded and retained at
NJDOT for seven (7) days. "

You were saying?

~~~
daveloyall
s/would/should/ :/

------
chippy
Comcast seems to get negative press on reddit - at least as much as Netflix
has positive. The site must be very easy for marketeers to game.

~~~
revelation
Or Comcast just is that terrible. I'm not sure people are faking these 30
minutes long captures of a sales person repeatedly asking you to upgrade when
you are calling to cancel.

