
Suicide rising across the US - daegloe
https://www.cdc.gov/vitalsigns/suicide/
======
rdtsc
Feels awkward posting this but I'll leave it here just in case:

National Suicide Prevention Lifeline 1-800-273-TALK (8255)

~~~
pshin45
And for those who prefer written communication, there's Crisis Text Line[1]:
Text 741741 (US only)

Disclaimer: I'm a volunteer.

[1]
[https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/09/r-u](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/09/r-u)

~~~
Waterluvian
Oh man I'm so happy that exists. As a teen I absolutely would not call and
talk with a stranger. Found help online. Would have loved to text.

------
adamnemecek
The accelerationism of the world is really taking it's toll. I feel like the
political and economical system is, idk, a result of over-application of
certain tenets that might have been justified in the past but are increasingly
less valid but certain forces are clinging to them because these tenets are
all they have.

It's not just the US, the world feels like such a blur. Very important and
fucked up things are happening multiple times daily. Things that don't affect
me but a lot of times actually really do. Some thousand year old struggles
seem to be getting kicked into the internet age and as a result the whole
world is getting involved in local conflicts and is forced to take sides.

I legit feel as if some sort of new conception of government, nations, states,
rights, is really needed. I don't know what but I'm all ears.

~~~
ams6110
> the world feels like such a blur

Get off of social media and twitter.

Stop watching/reading the news every day. If you want to keep up with current
events, read a politically neutral monthly periodical.

I grew up in the 70's and 80's. Every generation looks back on its youth as
"the good old days" but things really were much less stressful then and the
main difference I see is that you were not connected to a firehose of real-
time updates on everything.

~~~
JacksonGariety
The dilemma is that leaving social media is increasingly tantamount to leaving
society, which is the basis for what remains of politics. On the other hand,
the "politics" that occurs on social media is increasingly nothing other than
a popularity contest. It seems hopeless.

~~~
jaredklewis
> The dilemma is that leaving social media is increasingly tantamount to
> leaving society

Aside from my debilitating addiction to HN, I don't use social media. I have a
job, family, large circle of friends, and all the usual attachments to
society. I vote and love to debate politics with pretty much anyone
interested. How exactly would my attachment to society be improved by more
social media? If HN went away tomorrow, would I no longer be a part of
society?

I have found fruitful, enjoyable political discussion and social media to be
more or less incompatible. Twitter and Facebook work great for the purpose of
"rallying the base." Tweeting or sharing the latest polemic showing all your
friends how truly liberal or conservative you are doesn't do much to bring in
converts. But the political bases in the US are quickly approaching max
rallied-ness. From here on out is the actually difficult tasks of changing
hearts and minds, and that doesn't happen on social media.

If you care about politics, the further you get from social media the better.

~~~
natecavanaugh
I dunno about this. I consider HN social media (we are socializing via media
of sorts), but even on Facebook, when I post something that I believe
validates my perspective, my social graph includes intellectually honest
people who chime in with thoughtful counters and we're allowed to have
thoughtful dialogues, and have benefited from their influence (as well as
those types of discussions in meatspace as well). I've also had less enjoyable
discussions in both areas. When I see relatives post things that are
flagrantly one-sided or even untrue, I try to engage respectfully and try to
offer another take. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

But I think increasing communication is one of the side effects, and overall,
generally a good thing. As I like to repeat often, clarity is more important
than agreement, and having more ways to connect with people gives alot more
clarity into who they are, as well as valid counters to my own preconceived
notions. Sometimes, others viewpoints don't change my mind overnight, but
often they either long-term influence more nuance in my own ideas, or even
gird my thoughts to a more defensible position.

And like any social network, virtual or physical, we all tend to have those
oddballs in our lives that are really into watching random things online and
sharing them with others, and that to me just means more spice to life.

Twitter on the other hand ranges from pointless to toxic when it comes to
conversations. It's a broadcast network that by nature narrows positions into
extremes, in my experience.

Of course, like my real world relationships, I need to do some amount of
curation or a break from certain folks or sometimes the entire system, but
overall, it's been a net gain for me socially. YMMV :)

------
castlecrasher2
I'm not finding any breakdown of suicide rates by age, which would be useful
especially comparing to the previous period they measure.

In fact, I'm unable to find which exact baseline period and the "rising"
period they refer to. The article only states "from 1999 through 2016" but one
of their data sources only started collecting data in 2003, in a limited
number of states (16 in 2010, 18 in 2014):
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Violent_Death_Reporti...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Violent_Death_Reporting_System)
. Others like the NIS
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_Cost_and_Utilizatio...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_Cost_and_Utilization_Project))
started collecting earlier, 1988 in this case, and it's unclear how they
aggregated this data together.

I'm aware that best-case approaches to disparate data such as this is often as
good as it gets but I'm uncomfortable with how it's being described without
being able to see the methodology the analysts used.

~~~
DanBC
I agree. I find the CDC suicide statistics very hard to work with.

Here's something from the UK:
[https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsde...](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/whoismostatriskofsuicide/2017-09-07)

In England we have three main tools.

1) Public Health _Fingertips_ : [https://fingertips.phe.org.uk/profile-
group/mental-health/pr...](https://fingertips.phe.org.uk/profile-group/mental-
health/profile/suicide)

2) The Office for National Statistics:
[https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsde...](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/suicideinenglandandwales)

3) The National Confidential Inquiry into suicide and homicide by people with
mental illness:
[http://research.bmh.manchester.ac.uk/cmhs/research/centrefor...](http://research.bmh.manchester.ac.uk/cmhs/research/centreforsuicideprevention/nci/reports/2017-report.pdf)

------
ethbro
Something that doesn't get noted enough in the tech community (and surprised
me).

Farming, fishing, and forestry far outweighs other occupational groups in
suicide rates for men [1].

When standardized against population, at a rate of 90.5 per 100,000 people
[2]; vs the next highest, construction and extraction (52.5).

For comparison, computer and mathematical was at 32.8 for men and 12.5 for
women.

[1] CDC, 2012
[https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/65/wr/mm6525a1.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/65/wr/mm6525a1.htm)

[2]
[https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/65/wr/mm6525a1.htm#modalIdS...](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/65/wr/mm6525a1.htm#modalIdString_CDCTable_1)

~~~
rojobuffalo
I've worked in 2 out of those 3 professions. I'm a little surprised they are
at the top of the list. Contact with nature on a daily basis is really
refreshing. However, economic struggle in these fields is really bad: low
wages, price competition from industrial-scale companies, seasonal
instability. Still surprising that those are the top 3.

~~~
tim333
Farming and the like have always been tough economically - you have to fork
out for equipment and land but the income from the crop varies dramatically -
good year and there is a glut and the prices drop, bad year not much crop and
so on. I think it may be better to either have corporations do it where no one
is hurt so bad if they go bust, or a regulated subsidised market like the EU.

------
test6554
Without encouraging or condoning this type of behavior, I really wish people
had a chance to conduct an exit interview from life. Only after the decision
was solidified and all other methods of outreach had failed.

The data would be remarkable and might save many lives.

World: We're sorry to see you go. Please let us know why you are leaving, and
what we could to do make this a better place to live in the future. Thank you
for giving us a chance to know you.

~~~
DoreenMichele
I have attempted suicide. I am frequently suicidal. I don't hesitate to
comment on it in forums. I sometimes blog about it.

Most people genuinely aren't interested in understanding it. If they
understood, they might feel compelled to treat other people better and that
isn't on their agenda in most cases, basically.

~~~
some_account
I understand it. It's not like the world is a super happy place and everybody
is like 'why would you want to leave this place - it's amazing!'.

Everybody has their own experiences. Their life is unique. Telling other
people that they should stick around can even be selfish, depending on what
they are going through.

However. Living life is a skill, and I believe can you get quite satisfactory
skill levels by making hard choices and changing your life for the better
until it becomes pretty fine. You may even feel happy. Takes hard work though,
and it's very hard to find that energy when you are depressed and your brain
is telling you that your problems are unsolvable. But they are not. That's the
good news I guess. :)

~~~
DoreenMichele
No, you clearly don't really understand it. If you did, you should know that
telling a suicidal person "chin up, it's fixable!" is the worst thing you can
do. Another big sin is offering me encouragement unsolicited as if I need it
when I am not even saying that I am currently suicidal.

Last, I have a genetic disorder. There is no cure for that. Your assumption
that anything is fixable if you just try hard enough is monstrously wrong.

The hell of it is, I am getting myself well anyway, for which the entire world
would like me to know I am insane, an egomaniac, a teller of tall tales, etc
and generally heap abuse on me.

But don't let the facts confuse you. Just carry on with doing things that
could push someone over the edge if you did this to them while they were
actively feeling suicidal.

~~~
castlecrasher2
> "chin up, it's fixable!"

Having been suicidal for a number of years myself and having overcome it, in
my case it was fixable. People suggesting that unfortunately may not be
familiar with something as agonizing as a genetic disorder, and I'm sorry for
what you're going through.

~~~
DoreenMichele
I'm not looking for sympathy. I'm looking to put out useful information.

Telling an internet stranger "it's fixable" when you don't know what the
problem is tends to go very bad places.

My initial assertion was that, no, most people don't really want to understand
because then they might have to be kinder and that isn't usually on their
agenda. Given the pile on of down votes and every reply to me being dismissive
and argumentative, I stand by that assertion.

Whatever interest I had in trying to do some kind of PSA here has basically
died. I think I am done here. I have made my point, though, no, most people
won't see that. They are too busy trying to come up with counterarguments
proving they aren't somehow part of the problem.

~~~
throwaway00006
This resonates with me. It's very hard to win empathy from those who haven't
struggled with suicide. And it's frustrating how many people will confidently
offer you advice they've never needed themselves.

Trying to rationalize suicide to someone will almost always lead to more self-
alienation, so it's a conversation I avoid almost entirely.

Thanks for being forward. Suicide is nothing to be ashamed of and I believe
most of the other comments exemplify the problem. Your message is mostly lost
here but I wanted to make a point that you aren't alone.

~~~
DoreenMichele
I'm extremely tired today, so I am probably not making my points as eloquently
as I would like. Although this is a new account, I've participated on HN
nearly 9 years and some folks are well aware of that. I get recognized as also
being that other handle by a surprising number of people. I have long
addressed controversial issues like suicide. That isn't anything new.

Today is my birthday. I am trying to tongue-in-cheek look upon the down votes
as HN's birthday gift to me.;-)

~~~
mercer
Happy birthday! Hope you don't let any downvotes bother you.

------
User23
The article avoids pointing out the obvious, but the map makes it clear this
rise is predominantly among white Americans.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Clustered in the central US states, primarily due to relationship issues.

~~~
megaman22
It's not really surprising that middle-aged men who have been raked over the
coals in a divorce and left with a hole they'll never get out of, would opt
for an end to the pain.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Agreed. Divorce is one of the most financially devastating events that can
happen in one’s life. The longer I’m alive, the longer I recommend to people
to never get married. Live together, but keep your finances separate (does not
apply in community property states; watch out!).

~~~
ams6110
Prenuptial agreements are a thing. Though there's probably some sound thinking
behind the point of view that if you aren't willing to get married without a
prenup, then you really shouldn't be getting married.

~~~
dsnuh
Good luck actually getting that pre-nup enforced in court!

Just don't get married, unless you are ready to lose it all if it goes south.

------
m12k
Desperation is on the rise. That map of suicides by state looks like a map of
"flyover states" that are probably disproportionately hit by the downturn in
manual labor jobs.

~~~
smashingfiasco
This. Trade deals like NAFTA totally destabilized (if not disintegrated)
industrialized regions of the US. This may not be the only cause of suicide,
but it’s part of the story for sure. The coasts don’t care, they seem to
celebrate it. What I think those people are missing is that this disease can
continue onward and spread throughout.

------
bifrost
If there's ever a reminder to be kind to others and to talk to people who
might need help, this is it.

~~~
Fsp2WFuH
Kindness doesn't solve this problem.

~~~
pwinnski
Not alone, no. But it doesn't hurt, either.

Suicidal urges often last a very short amount of time (ten minutes or so), and
for some percentage of people, a kind word at the right time absolutely does
make the difference. It may be a small percentage, but it's worth being kind
to all.

------
djschnei
Young (white) men are completely lost in the US right now. The most exciting
thing in the majority of my friends lives right now (23-26 years old) are the
current challenges in Fortnite. Everyone is scared of longterm, meaningful
relationships and Tinder provides the instant artificial validation to make
those long-term relationships seem unnecessary. You're a tryhard if you have
serious career aspirations or goals. We go to work during the week to get
fucked up on the weekends. The common political/social narrative is that
you're "the problem". If you're college educated, you're most likely drowning
in debt. Most guys I know actively express feeling stuck in a rut or display
behavior that strongly suggests it. This report doesn't surprise me at all.

Love him or hate him, agree with him or disagree with him, this is why Jordan
Peterson rose to fame so quickly. Guys my age in this country are almost
completely aimless and without meaningful purpose. This report doesn't
surprise me at all...

~~~
krapp
>Young (white) men are completely lost in the US right now.

None of the anxiety or malaise you describe in your comment exclusively
applies to white people or men, so the parenthetical seems irrelevant.

~~~
djschnei
Suicide rates for non-Hispanic white Americans are the highest. Clearly, race
isn't irrelevant.

> By race/ethnicity, non-Hispanic whites and American Indian/Alaska Natives
> had the highest rates of suicide, with rates for both groups showing notable
> increases across periods [1999-2007, 2008-2015] (from 14.9 to 18.1 and from
> 15.8 to 20.0, respectively). Rates among non-Hispanic blacks and
> Asian/Pacific Islanders and among Hispanics were much lower and showed
> comparatively modest increases across periods.

From
[https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/wr/mm6610a2.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/wr/mm6610a2.htm)

------
CamTin
What are they doing right in Nevada?

~~~
tcfunk
The graph is only showing changes in suicide rates. Perhaps Nevada's was
already high?

~~~
Tade0
I dug up some stats and Nevada is pretty high on the list.

~~~
CamTin
The hypothesis being that there is some upper limit to suicide rate that a
society will tend to approach asymptotically but never reach?

------
minikites
Reducing firearm ownership would reduce suicides:
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/business/wonkblog/su...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/business/wonkblog/suicide-
rates/)

The common response is that "people will just find another way" but that's not
supported by evidence.

>“Anything that builds in delay is working in your favor because that fever-
pitch time when you’re actually willing to swallow the poison or pull the
trigger is often fairly narrow,” said Cathy Barber, who directs a suicide-
reduction campaign at the Harvard School of Public Health.

~~~
o203909kd
I am a psychologist and to be honest, I think focusing on methods is well-
intended but misguided because it leaves the pain but takes away the
mechanism.

I'm not convinced that even eliminating firearms completely would reduce
suicide rates as much as some think because people would find another means.
Even the linked piece states "nobody knows what would happen if firearm
availability in the US resembled levels of other developed countries." In
countries where firearms aren't as available, other methods are more
prevalent. I also think there's a lot of differences between the US and other
developed countries along a lot of dimensions other than firearm use.

Even if it did reduce suicides, though, what does that leave people with? It's
akin to saying "we're going to take away this only out for your pain without
addressing your problems."

Sure, keeping them alive long enough might allow you to intervene and reduce
their pain, but the fact that they are driven to suicide to begin with
suggests something failed earlier along the chain.

What we want are people who don't feel driven to suicide, not people who are
unable to commit suicide.

~~~
DanBC
> I am a psychologist and to be honest, I think focusing on methods is well-
> intended but misguided because it leaves the pain but takes away the
> mechanism.

I work in suicide prevention in a country that has seen decreasing rates of
suicide at a time when the government has been defunding mental health care.

Reducing access to means and methods of suicide is the most important thing we
can do to stop people killing themselves.

Barriers on bridges and multi-storey carparsk _save lives_. Smaller pack sizes
of paracetamol prevents death. Gun control would absolutely save lives.

We've had a wide range of natural experiments for this. Two notable examples
are when the UK changed the domestic gas supply from coal gas to natural gas;
and when the UK introduced laws for catalytic converters. Two very common
methods went, and rates declined for some years after.

Of course you need the bio-psycho-social support too, but method removal is
crucial.

------
aquamo
It's interesting they didn't mention the high rates amongst veterans.

According to Wikipedia
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_veteran...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_veteran_suicide)),
in 2012 there were 6,500 which seems like enough to get a slice in a pie
chart.

------
joshuahedlund
Relevant recent SSC post: [http://slatestarcodex.com/2018/05/31/in-search-of-
missing-us...](http://slatestarcodex.com/2018/05/31/in-search-of-missing-us-
suicides/)

------
jagtodeath
Just an interesting observation: People with known mental health conditions
are twice as likely to poison themselves in a suicide than those without known
mental health conditions.

~~~
sp332
Firearms are more popular with men and poison is more popular with women.
(edit: source
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide#...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide#Differing_methods_by_gender))
The charts in the article show that women who commit suicide are more likely
to have a known mental health condition than men, so that could explain the
correlation.

