
De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard - x0054
http://sdbr.net/de-suckafying-apples-butterfly-keyboard/
======
nothanksmydude
I wish this was actually a fix for how shitty their keyboards are instead of
what is essentially a fart app. I've taken my 2017 MBP in for three keyboard
repairs at this point. Reluctantly spent $5k upgrading to this after the 2014
i7 air wasn't enough for development. It's easily the worst Macbook I've ever
owned.

The kicker is that repair is no longer what I would consider "trivial", as to
install a new keyboard yourself you have to gut the touchbar out of the old
one because there's no way for users to pair a new one.

I also recently learned they killed Target Display Mode when they introduced
the DCI P3 screens on both iMac and MBP. Perhaps the hardware to do so at that
color depth wasn't available then and they couldn't justify doing it
themselves, but it certainly is now. I doubt we'll see the feature return.

I miss when "Pro" meant actual professional level features

Edit: I should add I really don't mind typing on them, and can go just as fast
as I can on my custom 60% with clears, the reliabilty is just ass for how much
time I spend using it

~~~
kalleboo
> I wish this was actually a fix for how shitty their keyboards are instead of
> what is essentially a fart app

Someone else has actually made a debouncing extension to avoid double-entry of
keys with kind-of-sticky-but-not-yet-useless keys
[https://github.com/aahung/Unshaky](https://github.com/aahung/Unshaky)

------
vinceguidry
A year ago I excised MacBooks from my main computing life. An old System76
Galago Pro with a stand and a bluetooth keyboard became my couch computer, a
Windows 10 with a Ubuntu VM for webdev Lenovo ThinkPad Yoga became my coffee
shop / bar computer, and I turned my work MacBook Pro into a glorified desktop
by adding an external display, keyboard, and mouse. Eventually I want to
replace it with a Mac Mini but can't justify the expenditure this year.
There's also an Arch Linux desktop that I'm typing this on now.

The only thing I use one for is at home in bed at 3am where f.lux Darkroom
Mode on OSX is still unbeatable at what it does, and there's zero chance of
liquid spills.

Apple's legendary quality just isn't there anymore, and the machines are so
fragile to liquid damage and the repair experience went from awesome to utter
shit over the last 5 or so years. I just can't justify it anymore. My next
phone is a Librem 5, my next laptop a Librem 13. I love the OSX ecosystem but
not enough to turn all my machines into hackintoshes.

I really didn't think it would only be a few years after Jobs died before
Apple started whiffing. Now it's easy to see just how well he was able to keep
the jackals away. Now the whole company is solely interested in making stupid
amounts of money.

Such a shame.

------
geophile
I've owned MBPs for over ten years. But my mid-2015 15" MBP ("peak MBP") is
giving out, and I need a replacement. It won't be another MBP, because of the
keyboard regressions -- the butterfly keyboard, and the touchbar. Thinking
about a System 76 Galago.

~~~
giancarlostoro
I felt the same, but I went with a Surface Book 2 instead, I love this thing.
Pretty sweet keyboard and I can get as Unix friendly as I need to with
MobaXterm (use it for X forwarding) and WSL. I have an ASUS Laptop with Linux
on it for my pure Linux itch and I still got a Macbook Air. I was ticket off
that the Macbook came back and the Air looks more like a Macbook than the
Macbook, they should swap names (I've said this too many times) between the
products.

Anyway, I love my SB2, and my only regret is not being able to somehow know
they were going to release it in Black a few months later. I await the SB3 and
will buy it in Black if they offer it.

Another option for you might be Dell. The Dell XPS is a sweet looking laptop,
I haven't had the pleasure yet though.

~~~
izacus
I've been looking at one of these and the only thing that worries me is the
hinge - it looks like the laptop is "fat" at the hinge part instead of closing
together snugly.

Is that a problem when carrying it around in comparison to a mac? Is it an
annoyance?

~~~
apk-d
I've been carrying around my SB2 15" in my backpack's laptop pocket for about
half a year. Here's the summary.

\- Zero problem with the fatness on my end. Looks kinda sexy tbh.

\- The keyboard is really good about from the fn key which acts as a toggle
(if you don't combo it with another key). Can never get quite used to that.

\- The body paint can get scratched and worn down if you're reckless.

\- The hinge itself works fine ~~~97% of the time. Occasionally gets stuck
(can't detach) for unknown reason requiring a reboot or two, or some dirt gets
in the way of the connectors and it thinks it got detached when you move it
around.

\- Battery life _feels_ somewhat disappointing, but I haven't done rigorous
tests. If you're planning to use the gpu, you better bring that charger.

\- The gpu gets thermally throttled pretty easily.

\- Performance at the 4k-ish resolution can be disappointing depending on the
app (even the browser). This gets worse if you add an external monitor or if
you don't run it above the "recommended" performance level. Unfortunately most
devs (including MS) seem to optimize for 1920x1080.

\- My SB seems to have problems with WMR even with the official adapter
(display goes black occasionally).

\- There's a driver (?) bug with the screen brightness sometimes being too
low. I've filed a report on the feedback thing, but I'm not seeing or
expecting any response. Love the screen (and the width\height ratio)
otherwise.

Overall, it's a decent and interesting machine, but the edges can be rough.

------
dkonofalski
I see a lot of complaining about this keyboard online but I have yet to meet
someone in person that thought it was as terrible as claimed. I love the new
MacBook keyboards and Touch Bar but it's possible that I'm a complete outlier.

~~~
eslaught
I wrote my Ph.D. dissertation on the 2016 MacBook Pro keyboard. It's... ok, I
don't hate it, but even after years of using it, I still sometimes get this
odd feeling that something is slightly off. I've _never_ had this feeling
before, with any keyboard except possibly with some of the more aggressive
ergonomic keyboards like the Kinesis (and that was more of a layout issue).

There are the maintenance issues, but that's not what I'm talking about here.
I did have a sticky key (after about a year), and did get it fixed with
Apple's free maintenance (edit: so I'm now on the 2018 keyboard), but this
feeling I've had from the beginning and still do occasionally.

This contrasts in my mind very starkly with my experience with my very first
MacBook keyboard circa 2009. I'd never had a Mac before or any kind of laptop,
but when I first used the keyboard I never had to think twice about it. This
stuck in my memory because of how much people raved about that keyboard at the
time; but I guess it's a property of a good thing that you only notice it when
it's gone.

~~~
glhaynes
When Apple replaces keyboards, they replace them with the 2018 keyboard (the
one with the extra rubber barriers)?

~~~
gergles
No, they do not. Unfortunately, they are replacing them with the keyboard that
your machine came with. Not the 2018 ones that have sort-of fixed the biggest
issues.

~~~
bluedino
My question is, after 3 keyboard replacements will the Apple Store simply hand
you a new/refurb MBP of similar specs?

------
bangonkeyboard
There are many complaints about the MBP keyboard. I don't know whether "not
noisy enough" is one of them.

~~~
navls
The next version of this app will prevent microscopic dust particles from
blocking/repeating keystrokes

------
wodenokoto
Last year I drank the cool aid and bought a mechanical keyboard.

I don't get it. Compared to butterfly they are pretty bad.

Extremely long key travel is supposed to be save me from carpal tunnel. I find
it quite exhausting. More worrying is the tactile feedback. When a butterfly
(or any other chiclet keyboard) clicks, it registers.

Not so much on a mechanical, not even the tactile. It is worst on the linear
gaming keyboards, where resting your fingers on the keys can cause them to
register. Normal linear keyboards do need to sink deeper before registering,
but again, there is absolutely no feedback.

The tactile keyboards have a "click" somewhere, but it is not connected to the
actual keypress registraion.

On top of that they are ridiculously tall.

Like most people I prefer thinkpad or old mac keyboards over the butterfly
keys, but they are pretty fine, and I would call them very tactile, but I
guess that is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way. So maybe I just go
with calling them very responsive, with a high correlation between the audible
and felt click and key registration.

~~~
exergy
Unfortunately, you fell for the myth.

Mechanical keyboards might just be _worse_ for RSI etc, because it's hard to
rid yourself of the habit of pounding on the keys to bottom them out, which
one has to do on a membrane keyboard. Most mechanical (certainly most Cherry)
switches actuate before bottoming out, and through some mindfulness, it _is_
possible to train yourself to type sedately, without bottoming out. But it's
hard, and not possible to do _all_ the time. The long keytravel is also a
literal pain.

The only reason to have a mechanical keyboard is enjoying the key feel, and
noise. Typing at the speed of light is way more enjoyable on a keyboard that
clacks along happily as you type your tome. If a membrane keyboard does it for
you, all the better. Save yourself $$$ on the expensive keyboards and (worse
still) expensive keycaps.

------
forgetcolor
Trying this out. I like it more than I thought I would. But a couple comments:

1) The sounds appear to all be the same, regardless of key. Seems there should
be some subtle variation in the sound, even if it just a very slight
modulation in pitch? This would better map with real mechanical keyboards.

2) The sounds appear too far delayed to me. Like it's slightly out of sync w/
my typing. I turned off the keyup sound—which helps—but not enough. It may be
this is a limitation you can't overcome.

3) The sound quality seems low. Maybe obtain higher quality samples and/or
don't compress it so much?

~~~
lanewinfield
I'm using it right now—it seems like keys towards the right get put more on
the right channel of audio and the ones on the left more on the left, which is
a nice feature.

I think some subtle variation (like, adding an effect randomly or having ~10
recordings) could make this even better.

------
perplex
This is cool (and I don't even use mechanical keyboards). It reminds me of the
movie "The Dilemma" where the characters were making an audio system to emit
fake "muscle car" engine sounds for electric vehicles.

Not a great quality clip, but here is the scene:
[https://youtu.be/Etu44hXY3zg?t=55](https://youtu.be/Etu44hXY3zg?t=55)

~~~
snowwrestler
Some luxury cars play engine noise through the speakers:

[https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15117726/faking-it-
en...](https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15117726/faking-it-engine-sound-
enhancement-explained-tech-dept/)

~~~
munk-a
Reading through that it looks like sometimes the sound is directed inward at
the cabin and other times the speaker is in the engine itself... that latter
setup is just so considerate to us pedestrians who love to hear people tear
their engines out on short downtown blocks - thanks VW! /s

~~~
mintone
I worked with a company that conducted some of the research that led to this -
a major problem with electric cars at the moment is that pedestrians use the
sound of cars to a) register them in the first place and b) judge when the car
will arrive (speed).

If a conventional vehicle is coming around a corner you can hear it,
anticipate its imminent arrival and act accordingly (especially important on
country roads without a pedestrian sidewalk) whereas with an electric car the
pedestrian receives no such audible warning. So yes, the engine noise is a
consideration specifically for pedestrians.

------
villgax
Another better(battery life maybe) one in rust,
[https://github.com/yingDev/Tickeys](https://github.com/yingDev/Tickeys)

------
jhanschoo
Relevant: [https://github.com/rbanffy/selectric-
mode](https://github.com/rbanffy/selectric-mode)

------
jjcm
Tried it out, and while fun, there was just too much latency for me to enjoy
the clickiness. It felt like I was mildly drunk while using it.

------
karmicthreat
I solved this by just setting up a magic keyboard/trackpad at work and home.
I'm happy with the MBP keyboard but I have issues with debris sticking in
keys. This way I can still be a slob, but keep the actual laptop keyboard
clean.

