

Openstack: Open source cloud computing software - andyangelos
http://openstack.org/

======
jacquesm
What a great move by rackspace.

That's very impressive, they're essentially risking enabling their competition
by doing this and still they've done it.

This actually will allow the development of 'micro clouds', a thing I wrote
about a while back because I don't like the centralization issues of clouds
for a number of reasons and use cases.

<http://jacquesmattheij.com/node/37>

Getting rid of vendor lock-in is also fantastic.

~~~
chrismsnz
It was touched on in the article, but allowing the actual plumbing of a cloud
to become commodity, it allows them to focus on their core business: managed
hosting.

Along with other benefits such as a developer community around their
infrastructure and ease of friction around moving cloud hosting providers
(i.e. Vendor lock-in) makes this a clear win and an excellent move by
Rackspace.

~~~
jacquesm
This could very well be the biggest announcement of something being open-
sourced made this year. I wonder if Amazon will make a comparable countermove
or if they will join. (Or ignore it altogether, unlikely).

~~~
izak30
They won't have to make theirs open, or join OpenStack. All they would have to
do is write a set of binaries that translate commands from one to another, and
translate return values. Presumably some hackers will sort this out and open
source it.

~~~
jnoller
boto, libcloud, etc, etc mostly support talking to multiple clouds. The API is
far from the hardest part of migration - it's actually pretty simple in most
cases, unless that vendor picks something like SOAP.

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notmyname
I'm a developer on swift (OpenStack storage == Rackspace Cloud Files). We've
been pretty excited about opening this, and I'd love to answer any questions
you have.

Swift documentation is at <http://swift.openstack.org>. Check out the "SAIO -
Swift All In One" page to see how to set up a VM to run it. With some very
small tweaks, you can also run it on a single slice (mount a loopback device
rather than another virtual drive).

Although I don't know as much about it, the compute docs are at
<http://nova.openstack.org>

~~~
mdasen
I'd be curious to hear how Swift compares to MogileFS. MogileFS never took off
like memcached did, but it's another piece of infrastructure that came out of
LiveJournal and similarly allows one to create a storage architecture where
files are redundantly stored on commodity nodes.

I'm guessing that both Amazon and Rackspace took a look at MogileFS and its
architecture so it would be informative to hear what you liked and what you
might have found lacking.

~~~
notmyname
Interestingly, our first implementation of Cloud Files was based on MogileFS.
It's a decent design, but it doesn't scale to the levels we need. The central
DB that stores the metadata was the bottleneck.

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mmaunder
It's open, it's cloud, it's new, it's got NASA involved! So how does this help
me move 20 terrabytes of data and a range of web services and customer facing
applications from my current cloud provider to a new provider?

The theory is that I can take a data snapshot of my 20 terabytes, move it to
the new provider's network by driving it across town (still the fastest way to
move data), "drop it in", switch over DNS and excluding a few lost
transactions during switch-over everything should work fine.

The reality is that this removes the pain of proprietary configuration from a
data center migration but it's still a painful process to switch cloud
providers that involves a lot of work, some risk and down-time. So while this
is a great marketing play from Rackspace there is still a level of lock-in
when you commit to using a provider and so the risk to Rackspace to go 'open'
is minimal but the benefits of being the leader are huge.

~~~
wwkeyboard
I think it's more about the worry that if your chosen provider goes away you
have no way to run the service yourself. You would have to rewrite everything
using google storage to S3 instead of just migrating data centers.

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bretpiatt
If you have questions come join us at irc.freenode.com / #openstack

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dotBen
I'm sad RackSpace chose to market this effort under the term "Open Stack".

A number of us in the open web community have used that term to a great extent
to talk about OpenID + OAuth + Portable Contacts + Open Social
([http://therealmccrea.com/2008/09/19/joseph-smarr-at-
web-20-o...](http://therealmccrea.com/2008/09/19/joseph-smarr-at-web-20-on-
the-new-open-stack/))

Admittedly the initiative has lost momentum (for many reasons and factors) but
things are still out there. This just creates confusion and branding
collision.

I notice RackSpace is pushing a "TM" on their OpenStack branding, which calls
into issue anyone using the term for it's prior and original meaning.

~~~
bretpiatt
I'm sorry, we didn't think the two communities would cause confusion. Almost
everything you can name something these days will cause a "name collision" of
sort. The infrastructure and application folks are pretty separated and so are
the concepts so hopefully the context in which it is used will make it clear.
Detail wise, the OpenID + OAuth... is "Open Stack" and this should be used
only as "OpenStack".

~~~
nailer
Preamble: thanks for the software, looks awesome.

The problem is that the domains are very close. There's a lot of modern web
apps are cloud based and use the open stack (I recall Mike Malone and Joe
Stump doing a great talk at PyCon about these topics using that exact term).
This makes searching really really annoying.

How about OpenSkies?

~~~
smiler
OpenSkies is an airline

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justinsb
I attended the design summit, and I believe this is going to be a really big
deal.

Whether it's a big hosting company running a public cloud, a corporate running
a private cloud, or a smaller dev/test cloud, they can now all run the same
free software stack, and software can move freely between those environments.
It's clear this announcement will have ripple effects throughout the entire
cloud ecosystem. I hope the project will also boost adoption of cloud-style
infrastructures, now that the fear of supplier lock-in is removed.

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alttab
Rackspace had a design summit last week in Austin, TX for Openstack. I was an
attendee and learned quite a bit from the folks at Rackspace. They've built
and re-built their infrastructure enough times they know what they need to
look out for. The drop-and-swap component model is great too.

It was fantastic to see what they've put together and the business model is
great. Commoditizing architecture and software really is the next step.

If anyone is interested, I could write up a blog post about my experience,
maybe provide a little more insight into the buy-in.

~~~
patrickaljord
Please do write a blog post, and what do you mean by "drop-and-swap
component"?

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shabda
You should get a canonical URL. openstack.com and openstack.org both resolve
now, probably better to redirect from openstack.com to .org.

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mark_l_watson
Personally, I find the OpenStack Object Storage component more interesting
than OpenStack Compute. I like the idea and implementation of S3 for saving
important data. Similarly, the same sort of lazy replication of EBS just makes
life easier.

I think that there will be a real sweet spot for smaller organizations who
would like an internal system like S3 that offers robust data security with
using really cheap disk drives and servers.

Hopefully OpenStack Object Storage will have good support for multi-datacenter
replication.

~~~
mark_l_watson
I did downloaded it, looked at the source, but did not install it. OpenStack
Object Storage looks like a very interesting project.

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sushi
Okay I don't know much about Cloud Computing but can anyone tell how is going
to help someone like me who has one or two blogs with some web hosting
company.

Or should someone like me even care?

~~~
jamesbritt
Here's a possible advantage: you have your site, some php code, mysql, apache,
a ton of data, maybe more stuff on disk. Your hosting service jacks its
prices, or announces it's shutting down.

Right now, to move to a new host, you need to handle a number doable but
annoying steps. Imagine tho that you could just download "The Site". Web
server, blog app, database, everything. Including the OS. All as one (albeit
large) file.

And then just upload it to a new host, where it Just Works. No reconfig
because you're on a newer os or have to use a dfferent version of mysql. All
of that is bundled up for you.

This is what virtualization (i.e. cloud computing) can buy you. And an open
standard for infrastructure can make it easier to move your virtual system to
other hosts.

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RK
While I'm running on AWS I strongly support a push for interoperability and
freedom from lockin. We'll just have to see what kind of adoption this project
gets.

------
wrighty
Does anyone know how this compares with Eucalyptus
<http://open.eucalyptus.com/> that's the core of Ubuntu Enterprise Cloud
<http://www.ubuntu.com/cloud/private> ?

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LiveTheDream
In April, NASA's Nebula project was based on Eucalyptus

[http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/28/nebula_goes_to_godda...](http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/28/nebula_goes_to_goddard/)

Does this mean they are completely moving away Eucalyptus?

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anotherjesse
looking forward to the combined efforts.

we really want to make the cloud that hacker news users would want to deploy
on their own infrastructure.

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tamarindo
What benefit does Rackspace get from doing this?

~~~
cturner
They commoditise the software and sell the services.

This reduces the risk that a competitor will come along with either (1) a
popular vertically integrated solution that locks you out of market share or
(2) some arrangement that allows them to dictate terms to you. Further, if a
participant does emerge matching one of those patterns, they are organised
respond through their established platform.

IBM does something similar with linux, which competes with non-free unix
solutions and Windows. Google have done this with android, which reduces the
risk of their being held to ransom by Apple.

~~~
tamarindo
What do you mean by "commoditise the software"? If it's open source, how much
of a commodity can it be?

Also, and again I apologize for not understanding your language here, but what
do you mean by a "vertically integrated solution"? Could you give an example
to illustrate what it would mean for a competitor to do this?

It would be interesting if there is a competing solution on the horizon, the
success of which Rackspace is trying to preempt with this offering. I guess
time will tell.

~~~
cturner
When I think of commodity I think of oil, or grains, or pork bellies. A good
that is generic and interchangeable, 'fungible'. You're not locked in to a
source, you can get it from several sources in a competitive marketplace.

    
    
        Also, and again I apologize for not understanding
        your language here, but what do you mean by a
        "vertically integrated solution"? Could you give an
        example to illustrate what it would mean for a
        competitor to do this?
    

Definitely!

Let's start with an example of vertical integration: Apple has a strategy that
involves heavy vertical integration. They sell the hardware and the software
and the services. If you want OSX, you have to buy the hardware. More so in
the phone space: if you want IOS, you need to buy an iphone. Once you've
bought an iphone, you have to buy apps for it through the appstore. Even if
you hate one part of the Apple solution, you may be forced to take the good
with the bad. Even if you only want one thing, you generally have to get
everything. If you want to run something that's not in the app store, too bad.

A scenario where this could happen with cloud services: imagine Amazon came up
with a really good payment services platform, and then said that in order to
use it, you had to live in their cloud. The market would have to interact with
their cloud to get access to the payment services. Rackspace would lose access
to the segment of the target market that needed this functionality.

By building a capability on the software side of cloud services, Rackspace
will have better options in a situation like the one above:

* They will have a platform that they can build a competing payment services platform.

* It's possible that other groups who want the same outcome will contribute to their platform, strengthening it in lots of small ways to compete against other offerings.

* There may be other developers out there who are skilling up for their own ends, that Rackspace can hire at short notice if it needs to skill up quickly.

* They can start building a library of prior art and patents to use in defence against sniping from one proprietary operators in the cloud space.

In the mid-90s, IBM found themselves in an odd situation. They were offering a
desktop and corporate operating system platform, but weren't very good at it
because it wasn't their focus. Microsoft were good at OS strategy. So IBM
found itself in a situation where it needed to invest heavily in Windows NT to
avoid losing ground, and this meant that another company was setting its
direction to a large extent.

Since then, IBM has got behind linux in a big way. There's far less risk of
agenda-setting coming at them from the linux community. It's a stronger
proposition for them to offer their customers, because potential customers
don't have to fear IBM trying to lock them in to IBM products because in the
way that customers might have been wary about this with AIX or OS/2 (or
mainframes).

Imagine if Apple move into cloud services, and then get a patent on something
ridiculous, and then use that to hound opponents. That's what they're doing in
the phone space.

I think the guys at Rackspace have their heads screwed on. I'm looking forward
to seeing a free and open cloud platform emerge.

~~~
tamarindo

       imagine Amazon came up with a really good payment 
       services platform, and then said that in order to 
       use it, you had to live in their cloud. The market 
       would have to interact with their cloud to get access 
       to the payment services. Rackspace would lose access 
       to the segment of the target market that needed 
       this functionality.
    

Good example, but I thought the idea with OpenStack is to allow anyone to take
this and run with it, customize it as they like and eventually end up with
their own platform, potentially distinct from Rackspace's. In your example,
Amazon says "in order to use the payment system, you have to live on the
Amazon cloud" but I don't see any parallel restrictions in OpenStack, simply
because it's open source and can be tailored unpredictably.

It's for this same reason that I question whether the benefits to Rackspace
that you pointed out above really are such a sure thing for them. Seems like
it could just as easily turn against them if someone else turns their open
source solution to better advantage (assuming the open source license permits
this).

~~~
cturner

        Seems like it could just as easily turn against them if
        someone else turns their open source solution to better
        advantage (assuming the open source license permits this).
    

Sure, but that's their comfort space. They're confident of their skills and
economies of scale here, and enthusiastic for this to be the battleground.

My point with the amazon example was partly that if Rackspace found itself
needing to build something similar, it has a stronger starting point if it
already has a software group. And because the platform is open, they might
have a shared interest with another company who has taken on their software to
collaborate on new features. Or another party may build an open payment system
on top of this open system when they're not even looking, and they benefit
from the network effects.

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andyangelos
Adding the TC synopsis of the project posted in another thread for continuity.
[http://techcrunch.com/2010/07/18/openstack-org-rackspace-
ope...](http://techcrunch.com/2010/07/18/openstack-org-rackspace-open-sources-
their-cloud-services-platform-and-gets-nasa-on-board/)

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junkbit
Seems right that NASA use Launchpad to host the Openstack code

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andy
is there a way to add DNS entries via API yet? I don't see where to get the
code except for swift-1.0.0, and I'm not sure what that does.

~~~
notmyname
swift is the storage piece (think S3 or Cloud Files). In fact, it is what is
running as Rackspace's Cloud Files right now. Although it is listed as 1.0 and
a developer preview release, it is production-ready code that is currently
being used.

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dnsworks
Yay. A marginally competent hosting company just released the code to their
mostly unsuccessful cloud! This is like IBM open sourcing OS/2 a year after
they admitted defeat to Microsoft in the desktop operating system market.

