
Ask HN: Should I include my GPA and/or transcripts when applying for jobs? - CoryG89
I am set to graduate with my BS in Software Engineering from Auburn University in December. I am currently trying to get my resume in order and start sending out tons of applications for jobs in the next month or so. I have been programming and doing web development in some form since I got my first computer when I was seven or eight years old, I am having trouble trying to decide what all should go on my formal resume. Many people online state to only have one page, or one main page with everything important on it.<p>Many people at school are recommending to include complete transcripts with grades (mine are pretty good, I have an overall GPA of 3.4. I generally have A marks in hard major classes such as Algorithms, Networks, Assembly, and Operating Systems.<p>Do you guys think its a good idea to include full transcripts with applications if I have no paid professional experience to speak of? If I do include transcripts should I have my GPA listed on my resume? Many sample resumes I see do not include a GPA. Others include a full list of relevant courses taken, but still no GPA. I thought GPA was pretty common on a resume if its above 3.<p>I did my core (non-software) classes at a Community College and transferred to my Auburn University two and a half years ago. Should I include the community college on the resume, should not be as prominent&#x2F;detailed as the University&#x27;s listing. How can or should I show&#x2F;express my own self-taught experience from years before University on my formal resume.<p>Any advice will be much appreciated! Thanks in advance for your time.
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patio11
Nobody will read transcripts. Few hiring officers read _resumes_.

This issue is vastly, vastly, vastly less importance to your success with your
job search than meeting and making an impression on people with hiring
authority is. The default response to an unsolicited resume is for it to be
silently discarded. Rather than making that the focus of your efforts, start
identifying people you'd like to work for (or companies and, by extension, the
people within them with hiring authority) and pitching them directly. Your
conversations will be much, much more interesting than anything on your resume
or any response to it.

~~~
wglb
_Few hiring officers read resumes._

What is your opinion about cover letters?

~~~
rdouble
As an alternative data point to some of the answers, everywhere I've worked
looked at resumes and did not really consider cover letters. I believe this is
also the case at Google and most Wall Street tech jobs.

~~~
caw
Could you extrapolate this statement (Google and Wall Street) to giant
companies with an online HR application process? Cover letters make sense when
you're sending it to a person, or at least an email address.

What happens when you put your resume into Taleo or one of those other online
application systems? You could be applying to several positions with the same
cover letter and resume in that case. I wonder how many people actually read
them.

~~~
rdouble
You could do that, but I wasn't specifically talking about Taleo or similar
systems. When I was on the hiring end, we just got resumes via email and
didn't read the cover letter.

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tdec
As I've worked for 15+ years in various consulting firms, I have a CV in 2
sections. A brief one with a simple outline of personal information, formal
education and a 1-line summary of positions held, then a much more verbose
section detailing the projects I've worked on. The first section is maybe 1.5
pages these days. The second section is easily 7 or 8 pages and is not always
sent, only when a customer asks for more detailed information.

In your case, I would suggest to emphasise your programming projects. See it
as some kind of portfolio. Nobody will be reading the transcripts so don't
include them. Include your GPA score if you think the rest of the CV is not
entirely convincing. These are the kind of indicators that people will look at
for people that are straight out of school and are not expected to have a lot
of practical experience.

When I'm on the other side of the table and reviewing a CV for (junior)
positions I'm basically looking for a few indicators: 1\. The person has the
ability to think at a certain level that is right for the job 2\. They have
some relevant experience or have shown an interest in the topic 3\. I'm not
starting from zero with this person. 4\. Can they pick up new skills
reasonably quickly and are they willing to do so

Good luck with the job hunt !

~~~
CoryG89
Thank you, I have a considerate amount of outside of school projects that I am
putting together. Most of it I feel are small demos and games and such that I
used to teach myself new technologies and such, nothing actually in use or all
that useful, but I hope it at least somewhat demonstrates my abilities.

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mcx
I would leave your overall GPA from Auburn, 3.4 is pretty good. There is no
need to include the community college. No need to include transcript unless
requested. Projects/things you have shipped/winning hackathons will probably
help make you stand out the most.

~~~
CoryG89
That's what I figured, probably include the GPA and have transcripts ready.
The advisers at the University seem so adamant about sending out my
transcripts whenever I can. I am attempting to get all projects that I haven't
lost over the years together and online. I am hoping to have a very short
formal resume which points online for example projects and a less formal
description of my interests, studies, etc.

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runawaybottle
You have to sell yourself however you can. There are many new developers that
don't have a degree, or don't have good grades, so those people will need to
demonstrate their abilities in other ways. For example, I had a lackluster
gpa, so I made sure to work on my own projects that I could emphasize. If you
think you can show that you excelled in relevant CS classes, then do so. If
you've got stuff you did before college that's interesting, figure out how you
can bring it up. You have to play up whatever potential positives you have.

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teahat
GPA - absolutely. If it's not there, the assumption will be that the reason it
isn't there is because it's bad (especially as a new grad). Like when you look
at a 2nd hand car listing and they leave off mileage - you know it will be
huge. Transcripts, no - they just add unnecessary padding at this stage,
nobody wants to read those unless they absolutely have to, so they'd only be
asked for at the end of the process, if at all.

But more importantly than either of these - you should write your resume
differently depending on what you are applying for. Highlight what is most
valuable to the organization you are applying to. If this means you have to
reduce the number of applications you send out, that's fine, it's much better
to have fewer well targeted applications.

And try to state facts, not claims. By which I mean - don't claim to 'work
well in a team', or have 'excellent X'. Show what you've done and the impact
it had. If you wrote something cool at the age of 10, I can infer that you're
smart and self-directed from that.

Good luck.

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caw
From my experience: Don't include your community college, unless that's where
your degree is from. Even then, if you got an AS at a community college and
then got a BS, just drop the AS.

Include your GPA if it's better than 3.0/4.0. That's the cutoff point for most
companies, and unfortunately some will be 3.5, so unless you know the hiring
manager you'll just get filtered out. Some people try to tweak this by
splitting out "Major GPA" versus "Overall GPA", but if your school was like
mine then your community college work just transferred as credit, and doesn't
impact your GPA outside of fewer classes in the calculation.

Don't include your transcripts; this isn't a scholarship.

My question is at what point do you drop your college GPA from your resume?
After your first professional job, after 5 years, more?

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dylangs1030
I'm a bit late to this, but I'll give you my experience. It echoes what others
have said to some extent.

In every instance I've applied for a job, it began with my casually (but
assertively) stating interest. Here is the process I go through (you could
call it my job hunting "workflow"):

1\. I read about an interesting company or meet/talk to someone with
connections to an interesting company.

2\. I learn what I can about them, researching for a few hours, deciding if
I'd enjoy it (on a cursory level).

3\. I contact people with _decision making ability_ and politely but
assertively state my interest. Note - I don't send a resume (you can, I
don't).

4\. Most cases, I've gotten through an entire hiring process without being
asked for a resume. If they happen to ask, it generally suffices to show them
my portfolio of prior work. This is in fact as simple as linking the list of
projects I've authored on my blog with corresponding code.

5\. Technical interview(s). Negotiation. Wrap up. Bam, you're done.

I highly, _highly_ suggest you read patio11's "Don't Call Yourself a
Programmer"[1] and "Salary Negotiation"[2]. No, really, read both. Absorb
every kernel of knowledge.

The importance of a resume is _grossly_ overestimated, as is the importance of
a transcript. Don't show a piece of paper, show the knowledge that your
education provided you with. Connections are important, and will field you the
most significant leads in finding a job.

[1]: [http://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/10/28/dont-call-yourself-a-
pro...](http://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/10/28/dont-call-yourself-a-programmer/)

[2]: [http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-
negotiation/](http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/)

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alain94040
For a new college grad, the main thing I look at is programming experience
outside mandatory college classes. You say you have been programming since the
age of 8. Surely you must have done something worth mentioning.

This is a competition with your fellow classmates. If all you show are good
grades, you are the same as everyone else.

As to the format: forget transcripts. PDF format please, one page or two max.

[a former hiring manager]

