
Meet the Dread Pirate Roberts, the man behind Silk Road - cgi_man
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/08/14/meet-the-dread-pirate-roberts-the-man-behind-booming-black-market-drug-website-silk-road/
======
dobbsbob
The name Dread Pirate Roberts should've given away the fact the site is
supposed to be handed down to different operators if you read/watched Princess
Bride.

This guy is making a fatal mistake of talking to the press. History shows all
blackmarket admins like Max Vision go down shortly after press articles come
out with interviews. Now he went from guy running a drug site to "subverting
the US with propaganda" so the NSA can get involved. Note to future outlaws:
resist the temptation to make yourself famous by giving interviews. Just look
how they amped the Swartz case after he went to the media

Can also now make a pretty good profile of this guy because he talks too much
on his own forum and to forbes.

~~~
sirsar
The interviewer didn't even get the operator's first name. I think he (she?
they?)'ll be fine.

~~~
dobbsbob
We know he found a wallet bug so that immediately gives away what level of
competency/expertise to look for on the bitcoin forums which he undoubtedly
posts there too. How he discovered the site is relevant and will give away how
long he has been on bitcointalk since the orig dpr advertised there. We know
his book recommendations from the forum which he prob recommended on clearnet
in the past, or attached to his FB profile. Theres dozens of other ID markers
he's left which I don't think is misinfo, mainly his Libertarian arguments
which again he prob repeated elsewhere. Stylometry analysis incoming.

#1 rule to stay out of jail by thegrugq: stop talking

~~~
nobodysfool
Not to mention, the dude had to have money (even before taking this over) if
he said the previous owner was "well compensated".

~~~
betterunix
There is no guarantee that the money is actually available to him. He probably
has most / all of it tied up in Bitcoin, and is probably using only small
amounts at a time via exchanges.

It is the classic mafia problem. Yes you can make lots of money on the black
market, but it is useless if spending means getting caught. Hence money
laundering.

------
dmix
For those not aware, the Forbes author of this article wrote a book on the
history of cypherpunks (including the mailing list) which Dread Pirate Roberts
was most likely a part of, or the very least inspired by it's members in some
way: [http://www.amazon.com/This-Machine-Kills-Secrets-
WikiLeakers...](http://www.amazon.com/This-Machine-Kills-Secrets-
WikiLeakers/dp/0525953205/)

Having interviewed Timothy May, Cryptome founder and Phil Zimmermann is
probably how he earned enough reputation to have this interview set up.

~~~
mw6621
I think you mean Timothy May, Cypherpunks founder?

AFAIK John Young runs Cryptome.

~~~
dmix
Correct, I wrote "Cryptome founder" as I figured that was more well known than
John Young's name. Although I see now how the comma placement in my comment
was confusing.

~~~
LukeShu
Incorrect comma usage, actually. You can't omit the Oxford comma (the comma
before an "and") with a list of exactly 3 items. If you do, the middle item in
the list can be parsed too many different ways, as happened here.

~~~
rabbidruster
I beg to differ. I don't see how an oxford comma would fix this confusion. In
fact I think without it his statement is easier to understand. We can easily
see he means three people. If he used the Oxford comma the second person would
look identical to a preposition and would make your parents comment more
valid.

~~~
p4bl0
The easiest way to fix the sentence is to put the least precise term at the
end + using the oxford comma.

> Having interviewed Timothy May, Phil Zimmermann, and Cryptome founder is
> probably how (…).

------
citricsquid
This article was announced before hand and there's been some debate about how
it will affect the price of BTC. BTC has already been on the up in the last 48
hours so it'll be interesting to see if this compounds that growth.

"I'd like forewarn everyone that in about 5 days an article will be published
that is likely to generate a lot of buzz around Silk Road and attract new
people to the site. New information about me, the site and many things will be
discussed and I have no doubt that it will produce some controversy. I will be
available to answer your questions here on the forums, and hopefully we'll
have a fruitful discussion."

~~~
bduerst
BTC exchange prices have been shown to be proportional to the amount of news
that BTC receives.

With Texas making it a currency, NY subpoenaing BTC superusers, and now this
article, the BTC prices are going to go up for a bit.

There are a handful of exchanges that allow you to short now, so you could
probably make some shorts for two weeks from now.

------
logn
I'm pretty sure the government is delighted by Silk Road so that they can
finally justify searching all physical mail in some very advanced way. HN,
you're always asking for startup ideas, why not just get totally evil and
invent technology to scan physical mail at scale and hook it into PRISM? You'd
stand to make at least millions if you did it right. Oh, and part of doing it
right is making sure there's some alternate not-so-evil use case you can demo,
like idk, automatically adding grandma's birthday cards to your facebook feed
and automatically depositing her checks into your checking account.

~~~
gwern
> I'm pretty sure the government is delighted by Silk Road so that they can
> finally justify searching all physical mail in some very advanced way.

Aside from the issue that SR has been running for almost 3 years now without
anyone introducing such legislation - they already scan the outsides of all
letters or packages indefinitely, and can easily search anytime they want to.
The legal niceties aren't why drugs by mail still work, it's because the USPS
alone handles literally billions of things a year and the screening problem
(economical, not too high false positive, USPS does not benefit in any way) is
really hard.

~~~
SolarNet
The government* is also trying to kill USPS by placing unreasonable pension
requirements on it. Sort of hard to justify that when you actually start
needing it to fight crime.

*The people elected to run it.

------
stevewillows
“Silk Road doesn’t really sell drugs. It sells insurance and financial
products,” says Carnegie Mellon computer engineering professor Nicolas
Christin. “It doesn’t really matter whether you’re selling T-shirts or
cocaine. The business model is to commoditize security.”

I thought this was an interesting look at it. In a sense Silk Road is like the
Pirate Bay in that it doesn't hold the items it generates traffic from.

~~~
arcadeparade
So you have a marketplace now for illegal (stolen) digital products and one
for illegal physical products. What other illegal marketplaces will crop up
because of tor and bitcoin?

~~~
icebraining
The Pirate Bay is not a marketplace, nor did its origin had anything to do
with Tor or Bitcoin.

------
mrb
Interesting. I have had a theory that DPR is Satoshi (who invented Bitcoin):
[https://plus.google.com/100577178258662783679/posts/76UcUX4P...](https://plus.google.com/100577178258662783679/posts/76UcUX4Py2c)

But now DPR claims he inherited the site from someone else. DPR could be
trying to disassociate himself from the "Satoshi" identity :)

~~~
dobbsbob
The original DPR was pretty naive, he was selling on his own site with his
girlfriend and didn't make any bones about people knowing. He had to hire a
lot of help in the early days when the site took off because he didn't know
what he was doing, Satoshi would know.

I still remember the SR job ads for database admins and other positions. I
always assumed dozens of feds signed up for them.

------
shrikant
The name "Dread Pirate Roberts" is (quite cleverly, IMHO) picked up from the
character from The Princess Bride [ _aside_ : go watch the film -- it's great
fun!].

It is possible that this "person" is much like Satoshi Nakamoto, given that in
The Princess Bride, the pirate is not actually one person, but a series of
individuals who periodically pass the name and reputation to a chosen
successor.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dread_Pirate_Roberts](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dread_Pirate_Roberts)

~~~
fizzbar
The article states that exactly.

~~~
shrikant
Oh dear, you're right -- the article has two pages! I _was_ a little puzzled
to see no mention of the origin of the name at first.

------
chrissnell
The Dread Pirate's curse is that he'll never be able really spend much of this
pile of currency that he's accumulated, at least not without drawing attention
to himself and getting busted.

History has shown that these guys eventually get busted but rarely for drug
dealing; it's usually the IRS that busts them for tax evasion. If you're
buying fancy cars, big houses, yachts, or businesses, eventually someone is
going to catch on and follow the money trail.

~~~
simantel
As someone who doesn't know much about Bitcoins: Could he just say he mined a
bunch of Bitcoins a few years ago and is now cashing out?

~~~
w-ll
Well if there asking him questions chances are already following transactions,
and its very easy to tell if coins have been mined and maybe shuffled around a
few times vs coins with long blockchain history.

------
jere
>If Roberts is paranoid, it’s because very powerful people really are out to
get him.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

~~~
ihsw
Not at all, paranoia is simply a mistrust without justification. One can be
cautionary and paranoid at the same time.

There are formalized medical definitions of paranoia being a mental condition,
but many words have informal definitions that complement their formal
definitions.

~~~
jere
>Not at all, paranoia is simply a mistrust without justification.

So does he or doesn't he have justification to be mistrustful? The quoted
sentence claims the former.

>many words have informal definitions that complement their formal
definitions.

Yea, I wouldn't have made the post without checking the informal definition
first.

------
javert
> Bitcoin-like digital currency system called Liberty Reserve

No, it's really not. That's about analogous to "absinthe-like drink called
Coca-Cola."

Can the Bitcoin Foundation sue for defamation?

~~~
fragmede
How isn't it? They're both drinks, and slightly poisonous... they're both
digital currency, and as far as any laymen could tell, used exclusively by
criminals.

Oh sure, you can tell me about "mining" and crypto, but that's not relevant
right now. What, if anything, actually sets Bitcoin apart from LIberty
Reserve?

~~~
jnbiche
Do you really believe that the CEO of Paypal[1] and Western Union[2] would
contemplate in public the possibility of using Bitcoin as a funding mechanism
if it were used exclusively by criminals?

1\. [http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2013/04/30/could-paypal-be-on-
ho...](http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2013/04/30/could-paypal-be-on-horizon-for-
bitcoin/) 2\. [http://mashable.com/2013/04/02/western-union-
bitcoin/](http://mashable.com/2013/04/02/western-union-bitcoin/)

------
CassiusCook
If you are struggling to pin an ideology on an enterprise like the Silk Road,
consider ways in which our current rate of technological/scientific progress
has been shaped and guided by the responsible use of psychedelics in the 20th
century. Check out the relationships that Francis Crick, Kary Mullis, Steve
Jobs and Kiyoshi Izumi had with these fascinating compounds to start. From
there it is not difficult for one to rationally assert that Silk Road (and
Roberts) are critical facilitators - spurring innovation by furnishing those
that might conceptualize the future with a powerful means to do so.

------
rdl
I'm surprised he continues to have a relatively high profile, if he truly is
responsible for running silk road. The more linkable things you do, the
greater the risk of your pseudonym being compromised.

I understand that he's commercially motivated to promote the site, but having
a third party do that would make a lot more sense. As the site's admin, he's
both a big legal and technical liability if identified; an independent
promoter would not be.

~~~
rlt3
There's absolutely no reason to believe Dread Pirate Roberts isn't the third
party you mention.

~~~
freework
They allude to just that in the article. DPR is not the founder of SilkRoad.

------
chrischen
Whether it's a victimless crime or not depends on where they source the drugs.

You could argue that aggressive law-enforcement is what causes reprisal
violence, but that still wouldn't justify supporting it in another way.

~~~
shubb
So I smoke normal, legal cigarettes. About 10 a day, 20 when I'm stressed. I
started about 20, borrowing them off friends, and it's been maybe 8 years now.

The first 2 years, I didn't realize I was addicted to them. I just smoked when
I wanted, which was between every lecture and with my friends in the evening.
Then I tried to stop.

Quitting smoking is weird because sometimes you can just stop, and don't feel
the need to smoke (until a couple months later you get drunk and buy a pack).

Other times, it's really hard. As in horrible. Your brain is trying to trick
you into doing it. Telling you that your girlfriend (who asked you to stop)
will leave you if you don't have one and calm down. Telling you that you
haven't seen (smoking friend) in a long time. Just like you can't perceive
your blindspot, you can't spot your own irrationality. This, I think, is the
biggest reason smokers don't quit. It's relatively easy to fend off cravings,
but recognizing irrational, addiction driven thought is hard.

Anyway, so one day I'm in a medical stats class. The lecturer is making a joke
about a graph. It seems to show smoking is protective against prostate cancer.
Smokers are super unlikely to die of prostate cancer. It looks convincing.
Smokers don't survive to die of prostate cancer. It convinces me not to smoke
again. I make my way downstairs, and grab a bagel. I have an exam next period,
and I'm behind in that class. I can't focus without a cigarette. I light up,
and keep lighting up, and now it's 5 years later, and I'm not going to die of
prostate cancer.

There is this idea that humans are rational entities capable of making free
choices, but we know they are really, really not. Thinking Fast, Thinking
Slow, a great (nobel prize winning) economics book explains that there are
situations where humans predictably make bad choices. Addictions are one of
these. If I were not hooked on cigarettes, as a smart, otherwise disciplined
person, I'd be more sympathetic with this libertarians on drugs.

~~~
shubb
@drivebyacct2: I'm hoping what you read wasn't what I meant. I meant that, I
can't agree with the view that people should have the right to decide what
they put in their bodies, because it is based on the idea they are making a
rational decision. As addictive substances is a situation where people
repeatably make irrational, bad choices, then that can't hold.

Like a lot of startupers know most new companies crash, but believe they are
different, I believe that I will quite smoking one day (just never today). So
I don't need protection. Obviously. But other people do. Hopefully I'm someone
elses other people.

~~~
drcube
>I can't agree with the view that people should have the right to decide what
they put in their bodies, because it is based on the idea they are making a
rational decision.

No, it isn't. It's based on the idea that people have a right to make their
own decisions, rational or not. You obviously disagree.

You realize that "The government knows what's best for you, and must therefore
prohibit independent decision-making" is the exact opposite of freedom, and
more closely associated with authoritarianism and tyranny, right?

~~~
shubb
See, you are trying to say that there are two possible positions - either the
government is allowed to interfere with peoples lives, or it is not.

Most people believe something in the middle - there are situations where they
would like the government to interfere. For instance, if they pay you for a
service, and you don't deliver it, they might want the government to take
action against you. In this case, you could argue they are wrong, there are
alternative mechanisms (e.g. escrow, reputation damage).

But there are situations where only potentially violent action will help -
e.g. theft. In the lawless world of Bitcoin, theft is a constant concern, much
less so than in the real world where a man with a gun is just a phonecall
away. Could we maintain a society like this without any enforcement of law?
Really?

So, if you allow me for a moment government interference in matters of murder
and theft, maybe you will allow me interference in matters of identity theft.
Then of fraud?

So most people end up willing to trade freedom for security to some extent.
(And it matters little what they deserve. The world doesn't work like that). I
guess you can choose your level of tradeoff by moving to Somalia or Singapore,
or not moving.

My tradeoff level is 'I think the government should prevent people being
harmed by predictable irrational behavior'. That's why I support an age of
consent, an age of criminal responsibility, regulation of harmful addictive
substances, and socialized mental health care.

You may not. I hear it's sunny in Somalia. If you move, I'd love to stay on
your couch for a bit.

~~~
aclevernickname
> there are situations where they would like the government to interfere

> Could we maintain a society like this without any enforcement of law?

> I think the government should prevent people being harmed by predictable
> irrational behavior

So it seems you believe that a government is a monopoly on force, but think
it's a good thing. a very interesting viewpoint.

How is that different from the famous quote [1] from 1984 about the picture of
the future? I appreciate that this might be considered a slippery slope
argument, but have you seen a benevolent monopoly before? I'm not sure I have.

[1] [http://www.quotedb.com/quotes/3041](http://www.quotedb.com/quotes/3041)

~~~
shubb
>>have you seen a benevolent monopoly before?

I write too much, but you make an interesting point. More interesting because
I find it hard to imagine a world where governments do not have a monopoly on
force and the things function. Clearly, I need to think harder/better.

------
jluxenberg
Contrary to the article, the AMA on Reddit has not been deleted

[http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1fwi48/im_the_ceo_of_a...](http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1fwi48/im_the_ceo_of_an_online_underground_black_market/)

~~~
zaphar
The article stated some comments had been deleted, not the whole AMA.

------
werid
> Then, last month, the FBI exploited a vulnerability in Tor to capture the
> alleged administrator of a child pornography site in Ireland.

Freedom hosting now reduced to being simply a child pornography site.

------
dwaltrip
Might silk road be the largest working example of agorism to date? Fascinating
how they create a network where buyers can comfortably evaluate their options
with the help of hundreds of reviews, and then order from the safety of their
home.

~~~
arcadeparade
Would Wikipedia or Craigslist qualify?

------
robinhouston
Silk Road is an interesting indicator of whether online privacy can be
maintained against a powerful and determined adversary. If it’s still running
in five years time, that will suggest that it may be possible.

I would bet that it won’t.

------
junto
If he setup silkroadlink.com, isn't that a money trail?

WHOIS information for silkroadlink.com: __*

[Querying whois.verisign-grs.com] [Redirected to
whois.PublicDomainRegistry.com] [Querying whois.PublicDomainRegistry.com]
[whois.PublicDomainRegistry.com] Registration Service Provided By:
BITDOMAIN.BIZ Domain Name: SILKROADLINK.COM Registration Date: 04-Jul-2013
Expiration Date: 04-Jul-2014 Status:LOCKED Note: This Domain Name is currently
Locked. This feature is provided to protect against fraudulent acquisition of
the domain name, as in this status the domain name cannot be transferred or
modified. Name Servers: ns1.bitdomain.biz ns2.bitdomain.biz ns3.bitdomain.biz
ns4.bitdomain.biz

Registrant Contact Details: N/A Link Thompson (linkthompson@tormail.org) Ave.
Federico Boyd Edif. Torre, Universal Piso 8 Panama City Panamá,74678 PA Tel.
+507.2638480 Administrative Contact Details: N/A Link Thompson
(linkthompson@tormail.org) Ave. Federico Boyd Edif. Torre, Universal Piso 8
Panama City Panamá,74678 PA Tel. +507.2638480 Technical Contact Details: N/A
Link Thompson (linkthompson@tormail.org) Ave. Federico Boyd Edif. Torre,
Universal Piso 8 Panama City Panamá,74678 PA Tel. +507.2638480 Billing Contact
Details: N/A Link Thompson (linkthompson@tormail.org) Ave. Federico Boyd Edif.
Torre, Universal Piso 8 Panama City Panamá,74678 PA Tel. +507.2638480

~~~
bitteralmond
Looks like a bogus address with only a real email in Tor-land. Domain is paid
with Bitcoin through bitdomain.biz, so that's a dead end too.

~~~
victorhn
If i bought a domain trough bitdomain.biz and somehow i have problems with it
(like getting stolen the password, somebody else claiming it), how can they
verify that i am the person that bought originally the domain.

~~~
nadaviv
You could send them an email signed with the private key that you originally
paid with (Bitcoin has a message signature feature in the GUI).

Edit: see here:
[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=223713.0](https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=223713.0)

------
swamp40
This was really a fascinating article.

------
KSS42
This passage bugged me :

".. was grossing $1.2 million a month in the first half of 2012. Since then
the site has doubled its product listings, and revenue now hits an annual run-
rate of $30 million to $45 million by FORBES’ estimate."

I guess 1.2M/month -> (30M - 45M)/yr makes the growth like much higher than :

1.2M/month -> (2.5 - 3.75M)/month 14.4M/yr -> (30M - 45M)/yr

Maybe he should have written revenue increasing is from 1.2M/month to
45,000,0000 per year.

------
marincounty
Maybe the author made the whole thing up?

