
Apple wont let bad guys use iPhones in movies, director says - laurex
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/26/apple-wont-let-bad-guys-use-iphones-in-movies-says-knives-out-director.html
======
epriest
The title claim is untrue and trivially falsifiable, but I haven't seen any
articles that have actually made an effort to verify it.

Here are screens from two recent movies where villainous characters use
iPhones:

[https://productplacementblog.com/movies/apple-iphone-
smartph...](https://productplacementblog.com/movies/apple-iphone-smartphone-
used-by-ben-mckenzie-in-line-of-duty-2019/)

[https://productplacementblog.com/movies/apple-
iphone-4s-smar...](https://productplacementblog.com/movies/apple-
iphone-4s-smartphone-in-hustlers-2019/)

~~~
andrewla
I think a lot of product placement comes down to more extortion than
permission. The production wants Apple to pony up some money or free stuff in
exchange for having their product promoted -- "promotional consideration". In
the case where you are shaking down Apple for money, they probably demand
certain assurances in return.

You could just use Apple devices and pay for them, and then Apple would have
no say.

My theory, too, is easily falsifiable -- check whether the movies you linked
have "promotional consideration provided by" lists that include Apple.

~~~
paulie_a
Why would you have to pay apple to use them in a movie?

~~~
shkkmo
You would pay to purchase the Apple products, and then you would be able to
use them however you wanted in your movie.

The idea is that most producers want to get paid for using the products in the
movie, or want to at least get free products.

------
austincheney
I suspect this behavior occurs due to product placement. Apple pays movies and
television to prominently feature its products. Apple products do not appear
on screen by accident. Apple pays for them to appear. Also, then, there is
incentive for screen production to never display Apple products on screen
without a contract knowing Apple will pay money to ensure their products do
appear.

I suspect Apple includes this limitation in their contracts.

~~~
i1856511
Is there evidence to suggest the product placement is paid? I had always heard
that Apple does not do this, and that the products are simply in the media due
to the director's choice. But that's what Apple would want me to think!

~~~
RandallBrown
If you watch any of the AppleTV+ shows that are set in modern times, they all
have iPhones, Macs, and lots of other Apple stuff.

Not sure if it's "paid" product placement or just part of the contract for
being on AppleTV+, but it can't be a coincidence.

In Mythic Quest, there's a scene where you can see some iOS code on one of the
screens. (Which wouldn't be _that_ odd for a MMORPG game, except that it's
code for controlling the camera.)

~~~
bhj
Razer laptops also make a surprising number of appearances in Mythic Quest, to
their credit. I didn't catch if there was promotional consideration, but
either way, it's a great show.

------
djhworld
There was a time in racing/car based video games where a lot of licensed
vehicles could only suffer superficial damage in the game, due to onerous
policies like this.

Its look hilarious when you crashed into a wall at 120mph and drove off with
just a scratch on the paint and a bit of windshield damage

~~~
manfredo
Apparently this is the main reason why Burnout games had fictional cars.

~~~
Cyph0n
Isn't it the same for GTA?

~~~
sybarita
with GTA i imagine there's also the consideration that these brands don't want
their cars to be seen used in drive-by's and robberies. if they're sensitive
enough to not want to see cars damaged they'd prob have a problem with images
of their cars running down prostitutes on the street lol

------
julesallen
I've worked at studios and at agencies and this is anecdotal but what I've
picked up on over the years during drinks/drunks with account and creatives.

There's a whole product placement sales team that monetises brands who like to
see their products being handled by the good guy. Hero saves the world with
0.3 seconds left on his shining Galaxy S20, maker logo in prominence.

Piss that brand off? You might not see revenue from them for a couple of
seasons. Or ever. Oh dear.

There is also logo and other IP/copyright enforcement. Why is made-up-spy-
agency's logo over the Apple logo on what's obviously a three generation old
MacBook? Because somebody didn't have the budget to factor it in.

In a lot of cities you can't even include _buildings_ in b roll without legal
clearance.

It's fascinating when you dig in, the amount of payola for this kind of thing
is really interesting (and thinking how to monetise it…).

~~~
sleepybrett
The 'Cloud Gate' in Chicago has a bunch of bullshit around it re licensing and
photography permission. Asinine for a piece of 'public' art.

~~~
JadeNB
> The 'Cloud Gate' in Chicago has a bunch of bullshit around it re licensing
> and photography permission.

I'm all too willing to believe this, but Wikipedia doesn't know of anyone
getting in trouble but the NRA:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_Gate#In_popular_culture](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_Gate#In_popular_culture)
. (Not that it's OK if only one group is subject to onerous restrictions, or
that other groups couldn't be targeted, or if others have just been pre-
emptively stopped from even trying.) Do you have a reference?

~~~
sybarita
I'd be shocked if Anish Kapoor doesn't have ridiculous restrictions like that
on Cloud Gate. You know about what he did with Vantablack?

------
_vertigo
I haven't seen the movie but was planning to - is this a spoiler? Does this
mean when I watch the movie and see that a character has an iPhone, I know
that they're not the real killer?

~~~
slg
Do you really want an answer to that question if you are trying to avoid
spoilers for the movie? Right now, you don't know whether it is a spoiler or
not. It is Scrodinger's spoiler. Why open the box and risk finding a dead cat?

~~~
2zcon
Then you spend the whole movie obsessing about if it's true or not, making it
even worse.

~~~
slg
It is a whodunit. Those movies are designed for you to obsess over every
detail to figure out who actually committed the murder. Just consider the
suspects' phones as extra clues that could prove to be either vital in solving
the crime or a complete red herring.

------
mongol
Not sure how that works. If the director wants the crook to have an Iphone,
how can Apple prevent this? I assume they will not sponsor the movie, but it
is not in their power to disallow it, certainly?

~~~
dubcanada
I assume you must have some form of approval if it is a central part of the
movie.

I assume companies can say, no random director you cannot use a Microsoft
Surface to nuke the world.

There must be something about it showcasing a product in a negative light.

~~~
gowld
Why? Do I have to go around getting approval for every piece of clothing
actors wear? The furniture and appliances?

~~~
anewhope
Not every piece but if it’s prominent yeah, a product release authorization. I
think it has to do with protecting against defamation actions.

------
ChrisArchitect
other discussion.....

* [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22427546](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22427546)

* [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22430397](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22430397)

* [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22431243](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22431243)

* [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22426385](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22426385)

* [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22425435](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22425435)

* [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22425435](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22425435)

* [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22424848](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22424848)

------
lacker
Beware, the post is a spoiler for the movie it's talking about! Normally in a
spoiler you know what movie is going to be spoiled, but in this case if you've
read the headline you know how it will be spoiled, but not which movie it is.
I advise people who care about any movie spoilers to not click the link.

------
Zenst
Won't this spoil many films?

By that I mean it will act as a spoiler - see a charter without an iPhone and
you can presume that they are a bad guy/gal and with that spoil a plot twist
later on. Equally, if they do have one, you know that they are a good guy/gal
till the end!

------
RcouF1uZ4gsC
I wonder if this type of thing will have the bad guys using open tech thus
giving a bad impression.

The bad guy's computer can't be a Mac (Apple objects) or Windows (Microsoft
objects) so it is Linux.

To type up the evil manifesto, they can't use Google Docs (Google objects) or
Microsoft Office (Microsoft objects) so they use Open Office.

To find directions to their target, they can't use Google Maps (Google
objects) or Apple Maps (Apple objects) so they use Open Street Maps.

To chat with their evil buddies, they can't use Messages (Apple objects) or
WhatsApp(Facebook objects) so they use Matrix.

Basically, in the movies of the future, the bad people will all be using open
software/hardware.

~~~
oehtXRwMkIs
My goodness, when will people stop mentioning Open Office? It's been almost a
decade, please replace it with Libre Office in your mind.

~~~
GuB-42
You mean Star Office? ;)

Anyways, Open Office still exists, it is now owned by Apache. But yes, Libre
Office mostly took over.

------
shaneprrlt
Kind of like how Amazon Studios won't allow movies that show villians with
bald heads like Lex Luthor.

~~~
DevKoala
Is this true?

~~~
cgrealy
God, I hope so.... that would be hilarious.

------
wolfpwner
Danny Trejo will be using Huawei phones from now on.

~~~
mcphage
Apple probably should include an exception that Danny Trejo can use whatever
he wants. He’s earned it :-)

------
seemslegit
* Contains a spoiler for "Knives out" \- rot13 to read

Zber vzcbegnagyl, va "Xavirf bhg" gur thl riraghnyyl qvfpbirerq gb or gur
ivyynva vf gur bayl bar jub bcrayl ershfrf gb gnyx gb gur cbyvpr jura rirel
bgure cynhfvoyr zheqre fhfcrpg qbrf fb rntreyl naq nyfb unf n pybfrhc fubg bs
uvf cubar jura rznvyvat na rkgbegvba yrggre sebz n cebgbaznvy nqqerff.

~~~
v01dlight
V ybir gung gurl hfrq cebgbaznvy. Vg vaqvpngrf fbzrbar va cebqhpgvba tnir fbzr
npghny gubhtug gb ubj na nabalzbhf rznvy zvtug or frag, be unq n plorefrphevgl
pbafhygnag uryc gurz trg gur qrgnvy evtug. Zber bs gung naq znlor npphengr
unpxvat/plore fghss jvyy orpbzr znvafgernz va zrqvn!

~~~
seemslegit
Gehr, ohg vtaberf gur ynetre pbagrkg urer, ershfny gb ibyhagnevyl gnyx gb gur
cbyvpr naq hfr bs nabalzbhf rznvy ner orvat hgvyvmrq ol gur nffubyr-ivyynva -
va gur zvaqf bs ynl ivrjref cebgbaznvy vf orvat nffbpvngrq jvgu arsnevbhf
npgvivgl, abg frphevgl. Gur "vaabprag crbcyr unir abguvat gb uvqr" cebtenzzvat
fubhyq or n ovttre pbaprea guna oenaq cynprzrag.

------
snek
add this to the list of things I wish I could unlearn

------
DevKoala
I was looking forward to watching this movie, and this is a a spoiler when you
put two and two together. The actual murderer is the one character who never
uses an iPhone in any scene. :/

------
terminaljunkid
Apparently basic phones and feature phones demised after mangolian gangster
characters used it in movies.

Apple is defending themselves against the same thing happening to them again.

------
cletus
So, Apple care enough about their brand that they are circumspect when it
comes to what they pay for in regards to product placement? Say it isn't so!

Literally _everybody_ does this. Even the US armed forces do this [1] eg:

> A study of the internal correspondence shows that the script changes the DoD
> requests fall into three categories: accuracy (historical and technical),
> behavior of individual serviceman, and overall image of the military.

[1]:
[https://preserve.lehigh.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2328...](https://preserve.lehigh.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2328&context=etd)

------
julianozen
Which is ironic because in real life the villains use iPhone because the FBI
can’t break into them

^This is a joke and not commentary on whether encryption backdoors should
exist

------
chillingeffect
how can a company prevent people from making movies with their products in it?
if I sell someone a $x, can I sue someone if it appears in their movie?

~~~
wlesieutre
Not to my understanding, but every phone in a movie is an opportunity to sell
product placement, and if Apple's agreement says "good guys only" then you're
either stuck with that, or you don't agree to it.

You could give a bad guy an iPhone for $1000, but you might rather have
Motorola pay you to use their phone instead.

~~~
wolco
Good guys use Motorola in that case.

------
nathankunicki
I think this policy has existed for almost 20 years now. I remember in earlier
seasons of 24, all good guys used Macs, and bad guys used PC's.

------
squarefoot
I'm pretty sure car companies did similar things in the past in movies showing
good guys chasing bad ones.

------
BearOso
I dunno. In Knives Out the whole family was toxic, so I think Rian Johnson got
around this rule with ambiguity.

~~~
logfromblammo
Or maybe Apple doesn't have a problem with douchey racist rich folk using
their brand, per se, so long as they don't try to pin their attempted
patricide (avucide?) on a servant.

------
zantana
This only detracts from the best mystery in the movie which was why is there a
laptop running XP!?!?!

------
abiogenesis
Define "bad guy". Not all movies have characters that are either black or
white.

------
Apocryphon
So does this mean Howard Ratner in Uncut Gems wasn't a bad guy?

------
JadeNB
The apostrophe in "won't" somehow got swallowed.

------
Zenst
Is this in the terms and conditions for Apple products?

------
kempbellt
Interesting that they have any say at all

~~~
dewey
This only applies if there's a product placement deal in place. If you just
use it for free there's probably not much they can do.

------
adaisadais
No bad guys in the movies but bad guys in real life can use them. Nice.

------
roflchoppa2
wow dude, spoiler alert

------
dfox
I noticed interesting and opposite pattern in various TV shows: when somebody
drives a Tesla then he is at least morally shady if not outright bad guy. And
it looks like that is intentional.

~~~
i1856511
I've noticed this true, but the same could typically be said for Mercedes Benz
and BMW. I think it's less Tesla specifically and more "murdered out luxury
car".

~~~
dfox
Often the show goes out of its way to somehow emphasize that it is a Tesla
(shot of door handles popping out, namedropping in dialog...), I haven't
noticed that so much for other luxury brands.

------
Pigo
In my experience most people who use iphones are at least a little bad. It
definitely puts a check in the "I probably won't like this person" column.

------
riazrizvi
There’s a political drive to force Apple to provide encryption back doors on
every phone, an argument = _you can’t have privacy anymore because bad guys
now exist_. So I think this is a good move by Apple. I don’t want an
uninformed and propagandized public from electing someone who takes away
privacy because some producers want to collect that data-gathering lobby money
for their movie.

EDIT: Here’s some research on how lobbying works in Hollywood:

[https://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/17/5/313](https://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/17/5/313)

