
Chicago is tracking kids with GPS monitors that can record them without consent - 0xmohit
https://theappeal.org/chicago-electronic-monitoring-wiretapping-juveniles/
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kemiller2002
My favorite line:

"To the court’s knowledge, no probation officer has used the device in
violation of the law"

Which implies, they can, they just haven't yet or no one has caught them.

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moate
Or they do, but they haven't been caught not catching them. As long as they
have plausible deniability right?

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pmiller2
>Milhizer said in an emailed statement, ... that the communications feature is
used “to inform the juvenile if the battery is low or that he or she entered
an exclusionary zone where there is somebody or a place they must avoid.”

Bullshit. If that was all it was, then a warning alarm would be enough. They
could also have had a warning alarm to indicate when to call into the
monitoring center. Such a device would be so easy to operate, a dog could be
trained to do it ([http://www.iaadp.org/rescue-
phone.html](http://www.iaadp.org/rescue-phone.html)).

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lotu
I don't know, building system that handles all complex cases and can respond
intelligently to any 16 year old is hard. Having a human in the loop that
calls you up and says, "Remember you have to plug the device in." is going to
be a lot more effective than a blinking red light or an auditory beep when the
batteries are low, (after all the user might be asleep when that happens), a
human would be able to remind the user before the battery is low or even
escalate to another human for example calling a parent to remind the child in
person.

It is fair to question if this extra flexibility is worth the cost in privacy.
Though personally I think the GPS monitor is a much bigger incursion on
privacy, but I think we generally accept that the benefits outweigh the costs
in this situation.f

If you don't think this for communication as described what do you think it is
for?

I don't think covert surveillance makes sense because the wearer is already
going feel surveilled (that is kinda the literal point of the device). Sarah
Staudt, Chicago Appleseed Fund for Justice, obtusely suggests the device is
for sexual deviants.

> The idea that an adult can turn on a listening device while a child is, say,
> in the bathroom or in their bedroom is not good.

I presume she is referring to the fact this is where children masterbate/have
sex, as otherwise listening to a person sleep or use the bathroom really is
not interesting or particularly hard to do (though if you do that is kinda
creepy).

Anyways, this feels like way too much work if you just want to listen to 16
year old sexy-time, and the decision makers (like the mayor or chief
prosecutor) isn't even going be in a position where they get to abuse the
system to do that.

Perhaps this is a form of public corruption? Build an unneeded system in
exchange for kickbacks this feels the most plausible but I don't see anything
here that would make this more likely the case for the system mentioned in the
article over any random public contract.

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Nextgrid
Just wondering as to why these devices are used to begin with? They don't
prevent someone from re-offending or disappearing by just removing the device
and destroying it, so why use it in the first place?

If someone can be trusted to not re-offend nor disappear then just trust them
without the device, if someone can't be trusted then how is this device going
to change anything? They'll just get rid of it and disappear at the earliest
opportunity anyway.

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rayiner
I don’t agree with your premises. These aren’t elite criminals. They can’t
flee the country or go into hiding. For the most part they’re low level
offenders that run in bad crowds and made some bad decisions. But they still
live in the community and are dependent on it. It is not hard to believe that
a constant auditory monitor would change their behavior patterns.

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djtriptych
Is it even true that more surveillance = lower costs / safer streets?

Regardless, this program should be struck down on constitutional grounds as
you're almost guaranteed to infringe on the rights of 3rd parties when
listening in on minors of all people. Totally absurd.

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Nextgrid
I have doubts about that. These spy devices don't actually prevent anyone from
re-offending, and if anything could give the state a false sense of security
(I can't imagine it being too difficult to take off the device without it
noticing, as to make it look like everything is fine when you're actually on
the run).

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sodosopa
The title is a little more clickbaty than what it is. It's an ankle monitor
for when kids are on house arrest for juvenile crimes.

> On March 29, court officials in Chicago strapped an ankle monitor onto
> Shawn, a 15-year-old awaiting trial on charges of armed robbery. They
> explained that the device would need to be charged for two hours a day and
> that it would track his movements using GPS technology. He was told he would
> have to be given permission to leave his house, even to go to school. But he
> found out that through his monitor, officers wouldn’t just be able to track
> his location, as most electronic monitors do. They would also be able to
> speak—and listen—to him.

and

> In January, Cook County, home of Chicago, awarded a contract to the
> electronic monitoring company Track Group, which will lease 275 ankle
> monitors to keep tabs on children awaiting trial.

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djtriptych
Not clickbaity enough.

Chicago is tracking kids and listening to potentially anyone in the city
without consent.

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rayiner
“Kids” awaiting trial for armed robbery. (The infantilization of teenagers is
ridiculous. For most of human history, young men at 15 were fighting wars. If
you’re old enough to rob someone with a gun, you’re not a “kid.” Under certain
circumstances it also may not be reasonable to treat you like an adult for
purposes of the law, but calling the accused a “kid” is a disingenuous way to
try to downplay the seriousness of his conduct.)

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dragonwriter
> For most of human history, young men at 15 were fighting wars. If you’re old
> enough to rob someone with a gun, you’re not a “kid.”

The hormonal peaks and incompletely developed executive function that made
male adolescents excellent pawns in violent policy (and also contributes to
their engagement in violent crime, often as similar pawns) is exactly part of
them substantively being a kid.

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droithomme
Let's just fast forward 10 years and deploy these to everyone because if you
have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear. That's what they keep telling
me!

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RandomInteger4
What's more damaging to the future of these kids? An ankle bracelet or
juvenile detention?

It seems easy to have a knee jerk reaction to this, but you have to understand
that these ankle bracelets aren't being just randomly slapped on innocent
kids. They're being placed on kids that have committed crimes or are awaiting
trial. This is a lot better than the alternative to getting locked away where
worse things can happen to them.

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wolfpwner
Black Mirror Arkangel is coming to reality!

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Animats
With 5G, every felon can be so equipped.

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HeWhoLurksLate
> With 4G, every felon can do so _right now_ [1]

FTFY

[1] See all the posts on bounty hunters as of late.

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amatecha
I keep typing messages and deleting them because I can't possibly sum up my
disgust with this whole approach.

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malikNF
This and the other front-page article about the prison video call system makes
me wonder, just who are these engineers that are helping build this kind of
evil systems? What's the difference between them and some war criminal "just
following orders"?

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amatecha
"Are we the baddies"? heh ;)

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lotu
This article shows many issues with society but the title is super click-
baity. It doesn't mention that it is talking about juvenile offenders, leaving
the reader to assume Chicago is picking arbitrary children and tracking them.
Furthermore, the main point of the article is not about GPS monitors, as those
are already long accepted, as a condition of release, but instead about a two-
way auto-pick-up call system built into the device, and the fact those calls
are recorded.

Also lot of the issues they talk about go beyond the main privacy focused
thrust behind adding a two wall call system to GPS tracking bracelets. How
kids can get re-arrested because they forgot to charge the device, or are
humiliated and effectively drop out of school because the device beeps in
class, or are unable to eat because they are not permitted to leave their
house which has no food because their family is poor.

These are real issues and deserves more attention, it is a shame that we only
see because there is a clickbait headline. The problem isn't this specific
feature being added to these devices, but rather a larger "emergent system"
that is the result of many individuals and organizations acting independently
and in a self interested fashion. As a society we have not managed to ensure
the moral character of those with power over other people.

Technology isn't the cause or the solution to this problem because the problem
is the people. People will find ways use things to be cruel or kind to each
other regardless of of if that thing is latest advances in telecommunications
or just fist sized rock.

