
Using data to determine if Die Hard is a Christmas movie - _xgw
https://stephenfollows.com/using-data-to-determine-if-die-hard-is-a-christmas-movie
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combatentropy
Talk about overthinking it! This thread highlights the recurrent conflict that
arises because my Myers-Briggs personality type is INFJ, but most programmers
are not.

To me a Christmas movie is a movie with the spirit of Christmas running
through it, however weakly. Another definition I have is this. A Christmas
movie is a movie that is fun to watch around Christmas. Die Hard meets both of
these definitions.

Die Hard is not, however, a typical Christmas movie. It's a movie more for
people who are sick of the normal Christmas movies and want a break. Because
of this special status, people who think of Die Hard as a Christmas movie feel
a greater camaraderie than people who think, say, White Christmas is a
Christmas movie. For example, at a Christmas party one of my friends wore, as
his "Christmas sweater," a gray sweatshirt with the words "Ho ho ho" written
in red.

Another thing that makes Die Hard special is the thought and care that the
director put into it, [https://vimeo.com/76739972](https://vimeo.com/76739972)

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clubm8
>Talk about overthinking it! This thread highlights the recurrent conflict
that arises because my Myers-Briggs personality type is INFJ, but most
programmers are not.

Meyers-Briggs has a number of issues[1] and is frankly, unscientific. But
because it uses a survey, it evokes feelings of rigor. Sometimes I feel that
engineers are so obsessed with rigor, they'd rather use a solution that is
wrong but "goes through the motions" than a simpler solution.

For example, whether something is a a "Christmas Movie" is at it's heart, a
matter of opinion. To answer it, simple polling a diverse sample of the US
population could answer the question. But that's not a "sexy" answer - we want
to buy into this idea of One Ground Truth that if we only framed our
experiment perfectly, we can uncover.

The real truth is that qualitative research is messy. Doing a "good" job is
easy, but doing a "great" job is a still unsolved problem... and sadly all to
often we choose the appearance of rigor over actual useful research.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers%E2%80%93Briggs_Type_Indi...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers%E2%80%93Briggs_Type_Indicator#Criticism)

~~~
EpicEng
This comment is exactly what the OP was talking about...

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tsumnia
Know what? I'm fine either way - I'd rather argue with my dad about whether
Die Hard is a Christmas movie than politics and the economy any day.

So here's my vote - arguing ABOUT Die Hard being a Christmas move HAS BECOME a
Christmas tradition.

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avar
This is only an argument because of different ways of defining what a
"Christmas movie" is, which aren't mutually exclusive:

a) Whether the movie is unambiguously set during Christmas, and if so whether
that's clearly an artistic choice, or as much of a coincidence as a movie that
has nothing to do with the weather being set in the summer or winter.

b) Whether the movie is aimed at the "Christmas movie market". I.e. released
around Christmas, this'll usually coincide with a movie being more Christmas
themed.

The article weaves between criteria that'll fall under one or the other,
without ever really acknowledging the difference between the two.

Die Hard meets a) but not b), but the article doesn't mention whether or not
skipping b) was intended.

The studio had a hard time casting the protagonist. Was it initially meant for
a Christmas release, but ended up slipping into July without the script being
changed to de-Christmas theme it?

More importantly, is there a reason to avoid b) without a)? Do mildly
Christmas-themed movies such as Die Hard (it's not integral to the plot) get
penalized in the market as a result? Why don't we see more of them?

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cptaj
Also C: Its a christmas movie if we all decide it is.

If it becomes one more of the christmas-centric traditions, then it becomes a
christmas movie.

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isostatic
Great Escape is a Christmas movie to me, it was always on around Christmas or
new year as a kid.

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rzzzt
Italia 1 shows "Trading Places" each year in Italy:
[https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086465/trivia?item=tr2330606](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086465/trivia?item=tr2330606)

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code_duck
Aha. A local bar was playing 1948 Rudolph the RNR followed by Die Hard, and I
thought it was just a hipster ironic incongruity. Now I’m understanding some
consider Die Hard a Christmas film.

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sys_64738
It has lots of Christmas music and Christmas themes that are the basis of
every Christmas movie. Not sure why people are contrary.

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new_guy
All that 'analysis' and not one mention of the fact that McClanes wife is
named Holly!

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rusk
Wonderful

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ineedasername
My initial sense is it's not a Christmas movie because the typical example of
such is a movie that has something like _" the joy of Christmas"_ as its core
message or theme. But I'm hardly the most buff of film buffs, so I wonder: are
the any movies with something of a negative message, or just any
counterexample that is clearly a Christmas movie that doesn't meet this
criteria of "joy" etc.?

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StevePerkins
" _Bad Santa_ " is absolutely, unironically, my favorite Christmas movie of
all time. And while Billy Bob Thorton's character does have a measure of
redemption at the end, it overall is a dark comedy that is clearly the
opposite of what you describe.

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ineedasername
Okay, that has to be the most absolutely perfect counter example. Excellent
choice, thanks!

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madengr
A Christmas Story is the tradition in this household.

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reaperducer
And in millions of other American households.

In just a few hours, TNT will begin its annual "24 Hours of _A Christmas
Story_ " marathon.

In 2013, each airing had between three and five million viewers:
[http://www.achristmasstoryhouse.com/a-christmas-story-
movie-...](http://www.achristmasstoryhouse.com/a-christmas-story-movie-
facts/viewership/)

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ChrisSD
I wasn't aware this was even an argument. Is this a joke or an American thing?
I must admit my initial reaction was bof but now I'm slightly intrigued. Maybe
it's a meme?

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some_random
Seriously, does anyone actually think Die Hard _isn't_ a christmas movie?

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paganel
The author lost me when he said that “Last Action Hero” is not a great movie,
so I wouldn’t take anything he writes about movies as serious. John McTiernan
is a genius.

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nhebb
I never understood why that movie bombed. 1993 was a huge year for blockbuster
movies, so I think it just got lost in the shuffle. Anyway, underrated flick.

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dylan604
It's a Hollywood story cliche. There are so many continuity problems in that
movie, but if I recall, they were designed to be that way. Here's a decent
write up about the whole preposterous nature of the movie:
[https://film.avclub.com/why-last-action-hero-failed-and-
why-...](https://film.avclub.com/why-last-action-hero-failed-and-why-it-
deserves-to-be-r-1798241845)

