
Announcing the new Windows Phone 8 Developer Platform - TazeTSchnitzel
http://blogs.windows.com/windows_phone/b/wpdev/archive/2012/10/30/announcing-the-new-windows-phone-8-developer-platform.aspx
======
sambeau
It wasn't totally clear to me what tools you'd get if you joined. After a
bunch of clicking I found this:

 _"The Windows Phone SDK 8.0 is a full-featured development environment to use
for building apps and games for Windows Phone 8.0 and Windows Phone 7.5. The
Windows Phone SDK provides a stand-alone Visual Studio Express 2012 edition
for Windows Phone or works as an add-in to Visual Studio 2012 Professional,
Premium or Ultimate editions. With the SDK, you can use your existing
programming skills and code to build managed or native code apps. In addition,
the SDK includes multiple emulators and additional tools for profiling and
testing your Windows Phone app under real-world conditions."_

Obviously you need Windows 8, too.

~~~
icey
Unless I've missed something, you don't need Windows 8 at all. Could you point
us to that requirement?

~~~
akanster
Under "System Requirements" [http://www.microsoft.com/en-
us/download/details.aspx?id=3547...](http://www.microsoft.com/en-
us/download/details.aspx?id=35471)

~~~
icey
Thanks!

To verify, I downloaded the installer and tried to run it on a Windows 7
machine. I got an error message stating Windows 8 was required to run it. I am
definitely surprised that they decided to go this way; there's no way in hell
I'm going to upgrade my windev machine to Windows 8 just to develop phone
apps. I assume there are many other developers who feel the same way.

~~~
reddiric
Windows Phone 8 is based on the Windows 8 kernel and shares plenty of
technology with it. The SDK emulator and debugger use client Hyper-V on
Windows 8 to run the phone as a guest operating system, which isn't available
on Windows 7.

~~~
sliverstorm
That's actually pretty cool.

------
brackin
Microsoft left it so late for developers to get on the platform. The consumer
announcement was yesterday, the developer summit was in June! Yet there's been
no SDK until today. Even Apple releases a number of beta's for developers. The
first Windows Phone 8 devices will be released in a matter of days.

All of the people that bought Windows Phone 7 devices (even if it was last
month) won't be able to run any of the apps complied for Windows Phone 8
because it's core is based on Windows 8.

How do you expect your dedicated user-base that for years has been complaining
about slow hardware and a lack of apps while the iPhone, GS3, etc has been
blowing up to react? All of the current Windows Phone users are not going to
buy a new phone to make their current phone, that they purchased six months
ago work. They're going to pickup and iPhone 5 or a Galaxy Note. They have a
core base of users that are passionate about Windows Phone, many of those I
know are leaving.

Having spoke to startups that have apps on Windows Phone, most of them have
been paid by Microsoft to hire a developer to build it and aren't going to be
updating it. Unless Windows Phone got a huge lift in traction but the chicken
and egg problem is stopping them and all of these old apps have to be rebuilt
for Windows Phone 8.

------
pjmlp
I followed the links and .NET applications are also compiled AOT before being
made available for download.

[http://blogs.msdn.com/b/dotnet/archive/2012/10/30/announcing...](http://blogs.msdn.com/b/dotnet/archive/2012/10/30/announcing-
the-release-of-the-net-framework-for-windows-phone-8.aspx)

~~~
michielvoo
Saving phone battery power (JIT was done on the phone every time an app
started) and using green energy no less!

"With the new code generation approach in Windows Phone 8, apps are compiled
in the Windows Phone Store with AC power generated from the Columbia River in
Washington. That’s a better battery to use than yours! As you can see, we’ve
removed an entire category of battery use on end-user devices."

~~~
randomfool
This feature seems like such a no-brainer. Ngen (Native Generation, .NET's
precompilation) has been around for years.

~~~
pjmlp
This is different, because NGEN can only be used with strong name assemblies
that get deployed to the GAC.

This feature on the other hand, means that you already get a native compiled
executable, compiled with much better optimization algorithms than what NGEN
offers.

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victorantos
$8 registration fee for the next 8 days, instead of $99

~~~
danieldk
But oddly enough, you pay $99 first, and get $91 returned in 'the next 30 or
45 days'. Why not charge $8 in the first place?

~~~
numo16
They just mentioned that they're working on updating the page right now on
build live, I think.

------
phaet0n
I hope this question gets answered, but what is the best place to start if
you're a *nix person and are considering developing for Windows (Phone) 8 but
want a better understanding of the mechanics of application execution? This is
for example if you wanted to develop your own language runtime, or compiler
tools. For example on Linux, you'd discuss ELF objects, the _start symbol,
dynamic linking, the XCB library, etc.

When I think of Windows I feel overwhelmed with all these terms that mean
nothing to me, like WinRT, C++/CX, and seemingly infinite ways of
accomplishing the same thing in different and incompatible ways.

~~~
dugmartin
Learning about the Portable Executable Format is a good place to start:

\- <http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc301805.aspx>

\- <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_Executable>

------
robomartin
I just can't get excited about developing for Windows anything these days. And
mind you, I've been using PC's almost exclusively for a very long time.
Somehow, somewhere MS lost it's way. Some might argue that it never had a
"way". That's fine. I don't care. I've made a lot of money using MS products
and the Linux world probably wouldn't exist without the commodity hardware
created by the MS ecosystem. Credit where it is due.

It's hard to argue with the assertion that MS has failed to be a thought and
technology leader for a long --long-- time. And so, when they roll out Windows
Vista, 7 and then 8 and then Metro and Windows Phone 8 and they keep, well,
fucking it up...

I am not in love with Apple. Not by a long-shot. They are user-friendly and
developer-hostile. And they make dumbshit moves of monumental proportions too
(Maps, anyone?). Still, for a new or even an existing venture, I can't see
considering doing mobile development much outside the iOS ecosystem.

In other words, in order to gain real traction and find a market it is a no-
brainer that you should develop the app/service/product for iOS. Somewhere in
the adoption curve it might make sense to deploy to Android and a far, far
distant third might be WP8.

What would MS have to do to change that sentiment? I don't know.

On the tech front I really do like the idea of my phone, tablet and desktop
playing nice with each other. Or having mountable file system access to my
phone and tablet. But that's a geek thing. Grandma doesn't give a shit. She
doesn't even know. So, I'll count myself out as a "typical customer"
--whatever the hell that might be.

Market penetration might be the key here. Nobody, outside of tech circles
--and barely at that-- is talking about WP8 or MS tablets. The Surface
commercials I saw are retarded, to say the least. To take a stab at my "what
can they do?" question, I'd say: They have to fire their entire marketing
department and bring fresh thinking into the organization. The technology is
probably good-to-excellent.

EDIT: An example of the brain-dead marketing is the commercial that spends
tons of time highlighting the desktop stand flap on Surface. Really? You (MS)
really think that you are going to get me to buy Surface over iPad because of
a frigging plastic flap? Fire them all! They are a bunch of morons.

They've enjoyed market supremacy for so long that they've never really had to
be good at marketing. It's the old "You don't get fired for buying IBM" saying
from the mainframe days. MS has always sucked at marketing. Apple has always
owned them on that front. Now Apple makes a dumbshit move (Maps, anyone) or
two and neither MS nor Google have any semblance of a fine-tuned marketing
drive to take advantage of it.

So, when faced with such marketing incompetence I, as a developer, look at the
situation and conclude that I have to stay with the company that is better at
selling. If you are good at selling you can sell pet rocks. If you suck at it
you are selling polished gravel. The quality of the rocks doesn't matter.

It's not a chicken-and-egg situation. It is a very clear market dominance and
financial-risk situation. I have zero interest in taking the financial risk to
participate in an offering that is marketed, sold an supported in a half-assed
fashion.

So, yeah, great Developer Platform. I'm a business man. Show me the market
opportunity and I'll carve code into stone tablets in hex if it is worth my
while. Anything else is just bullshit.

~~~
lotso
I've heard this argument against the Surface ad, and it really only came from
developers. As far as I know, the reception has been pretty positive about the
commercial. The purpose of the commercial is to build awareness about Surface,
and I think it does a pretty good job at that. Remember, there are commercials
specific to Windows 8 that explain the OS and how it works.

~~~
robomartin
I understand. As an engineer it is easy to focus on things that are completely
irrelevant to end-users. I get it. I've done it and will probably do it again.
However...

The commercial in question has a bunch of college-age folks dancing around a
table while flipping the stand open and closed. I can't, for the life of me,
imagine any consumer understanding what they are being sold. If the MS name or
logo wasn't in the ad one could very well think that it is a cool iPad case.

I happen to think that it is completely ineffective. I've done lots of
marketing for my own products, both hardware and software. Rattling off (or
showing off) features is a loosing proposition. Techies might get off on that
at some level, but Grandma does not.

What does Grandma or Uncle Fester want to know?

    
    
      Can I surf the Internet with it?  
      Can I take pictures?  
      Can I look at my pictures?
      Can I email?
      Can I watch movies?
      Can I connect it to my PC?
      Can I connect it to my TV?
      Will it break if it falls?
      How long does the battery last?
      Does it run standard PC software?
      How much does it cost?
      Can I expand it?
      Can I connect a standard keyboard to it?
      Can I connect a standard mouse to it?
      Can I connect my photo or video camera to it?
      Can I print from it?
      Can I have multiple user accounts?
      Can I make it safe for my kids?
      Can I secure my personal data?
      How do I back it up?
      Can I share my apps with other devices/computers I own?
      Does it become a hot-spot?
      What built-in apps does it have?
      How good are the maps?
      Can my kid use it for school work?
      Will it blend?
      and more...
    

I have yet to see a commercial that answers any of these questions. Instead,
we see a magnetically attached keyboard and a desktop stand. Really? I wonder
how much that creative effort cost. I still hold the position that MS hires
morons for marketing. The local butcher could do a better job with a little
training.

It's almost like the brilliant scene from "My Cousin Vinny":

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBL0q707fAg>

~~~
sliverstorm
_What does Grandma or Uncle Fester want to know?_

If you actually pay attention to Apple adverts, and then look at Apple's wild
success- well, looking at the two together, I can only surmise Grandma and
Uncle Fester want to know how (Apple thinks) the product will make you _feel_.
Any nod to features is merely coincidental.

Really, I notice time and time again- us geeks seem to be _completely_ out of
touch with what makes for the most effective marketing to everybody else.

~~~
robomartin
It is about communicating features and benefits but not in bullet form. Apple
does this very well. The early ipod silhouette ads communicated tons of stuff
with a a silhouette dancing to music while using an ipod. I could make a list
of the features that were communicated in thirty seconds but I suspect almost
anyone who saw the ads could.

I think that the key here is to communicate the RIGHT features and benefits.
That's why I am so down on the Surface ad I saw. I truly thought it was
moronic. What the hell were they communicating? I asked my non-tech (Doctor)
wife if she wanted one and the answer was: "it's just an iPad with that stand
thing".

Which makes my case. All MS managed to communicate to my wife was that they
have an iPad with a built-in stand "thing" that she couldn't care less about.

------
runjake
I wrote WP7 apps. I can't justify paying $99 once, let alone each year for the
privilege of developing for a fledgling platform.

The fee is $8 for the first year right now, but note they still charge you $99
and refund the difference in 30-45 days.

~~~
desigooner
At $8, I thought it was worth a punt and decided to sign up. Alas, I cannot
complete the process as it gives me an error each time I try to submit the
payment information.

Only if MSFT got their sh!t together..

~~~
cbhl
So, I ran into this problem -- found out that you have to have the same
password on the developer center as you do for your Windows LIVE account. If
you have a more secure (or just different) password on the former (e.g.
because you have a grandfathered Hotmail account) then you need to change both
to be the same to finish the registration process. I suspect that there's some
hokeyness in the back-end where the developer center logs in to your Windows
LIVE account to mangle something or other.

~~~
desigooner
Not sure that'd be accurate for me since I logged into the dev center using
the live account I have (non-hotmail).

------
nubela
I hate this trend. Why should I develop a native app for _ platform? On my
startup, our initial approach of both iOS/Android right at the start proved to
be dooming simply because there was way too much to juggle between platforms
for us to iterate on features. This is why we chose to focus on iOS for the
next iteration, at least till we found market fit.

As a developer, or even as a startup, why should I give a shit about Windows
Phone 8 platform? More work for a remarkably small market share. Unless all
I'm looking for is to be a platform leader, but that's another story by
itself.

~~~
trimbo
> Why should I develop a native app for _ platform? .... This is why we chose
> to focus on iOS for the next iteration

You just made the argument for the web. I'm curious, why didn't you refocus
there?

~~~
rimantas
That's not argument for the web. By choosing web you in fact develop for
neither platform. And it shows.

------
w33ble
As someone who's never worked in the Microsoft development world, is a "Dev
Center" account what one needs to publish apps to the MS Store, or is this
something else?

I have an interest in playing around with WinPho/Metro apps, and if dropping
$8 now means I can push anything I create to the store, then this is pretty
appealing.

~~~
farhadabas
Yes, Dev Center is where you publish and manage your applications for WP/W8.

------
sergiotapia
I tried creating my account because I read that it was possible to pay using
PayPal, but on the final checkout screen under payment options I can only see
Credit Cards listed. Is it because I am from Bolivia? Can anybody in the US or
Europe double check for me?

Thanks!

~~~
sondh
Same thing happened to me, for registering a Dev Center account and purchasing
Windows 8 Pro. I'm from Vietnam. It's similar to other gateways (like
Facebook), they only accept PayPal payments from a limited number of
countries...

