
EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard - rahuldottech
https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/01/30/eu-lawmakers-snub-apples-pleas-overwhelmingly-vote-to-push-for-charging-cable-standard
======
BinaryIdiot
The joint motion points to adopting Directive 2014/53/EU which requires common
_chargers_ but says nothing about the port that the phone uses. As far as I
can tell this is only for the back half of the charger / brick that connects
to the wall.

Yet the Apple statement, and most of the articles about this (including the
linked one), are talking about the phone's connector and talks about lightning
and usb-c. Most of the comments online are talking about how this forces Apple
to use usb-c.

So, which is it? Isn't this just regulating the power bricks / back half of
the charging equation? I don't see anything in the joint motion or directive
stating a connector on a device has to be uniform at all.

Joint motion:
[https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/RC-9-2020-0070...](https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/RC-9-2020-0070_EN.html)

Directive: [https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-
content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:02...](https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-
content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:02014L0053-20180911)

~~~
SiempreViernes
Indeed, the text only speaks of a "common charger" without specifying further,
so I'm somewhat surprised you make the claim the directive speaks only about
one sub-part of the charger.

To me things appear thus: the EP passed a directive that states mobile radio
equipment should have a "common charger", sensibly letting manufacturers
decide how to solve the interoperability problem. Apple then argued "well,
it's not explicit that you should be able use the 'common charger' without an
adapter" and continued making phones that can't be charged by equipment made
by others.

This join resolution isn't super clear about it, but does indicate that:
"common charger" really ought to mean you can use the same charger for all
similar devices.

~~~
GeekyBear
Apple's charger already had a standard USB-A port and has moved to having a
standard USB-C port.

It's the cable that they include with the iPhone that has a USB connector on
the charger end and a lightning port on the phone end.

That included cable allows you to charge with any manufacturer's USB-C charger
in the same way that the previous version of the cable worked with any USB-A
charging port.

So, in summary, the cable Apple gives you works with other manufacturers
chargers, and the charger Apple gives you works with other phones, using a
standard USB-C cable that, I would imagine, came with the phone.

If they want to force Apple's hand specifically, they should be focusing on
the port on the phone, not the charger.

~~~
signal11
> If they want to force Apple's hand specifically, they should be focusing on
> the port on the phone, not the charger.

It's worth remembering that the backers of the EU legislation started with the
idea of _reducing_ e-waste, not punishing a particular manufacturer. Nor is it
a Lightning vs USB-C squabble.

Getting people to throw their lightning cables, charging ports, docking
stations, etc away would be counter-productive to their aims. The Lightning
port has been around for a long time and getting rid of that will cause
significant e-waste.

~~~
ern
_The Lightning port has been around for a long time and getting rid of that
will cause significant e-waste._

From personal experience, Lightning already produces significant e-waste. The
lack of strain relief means that my family experiences many broken Lightning
cables each year.

~~~
llampx
That's not a Lightning thing, that's an Apple thing. Most of their cables
suffer the same problem.

~~~
FreakyT
Right, but by using their own proprietary cable, Apple cables (and those
officially “approved” by Apple) are the ones that get sold, and the terrible
failure rates.

------
martin-adams
Let’s say this rule was in place 10 years ago and we standardised on micro
USB. How would it have been possible to advance to the next generation of
technology like USB-C.

This feels that it’s banking on USB-C being forever future proofed or wireless
connections does everything we ever need.

~~~
microtherion
Micro USB would be kind of mediocre. But if the rule had been in place 20
years ago, cell phones today might be featuring SCSI connectors.

And of course, all laptops would be mandated to have VGA connectors,
eliminating a ton of conference room presentation guesswork.

~~~
kevingadd
Why would you use SCSI to charge a phone? It'd be a standardized power
connector, probably like those small round ones that are used for all sorts of
household appliances.

Similarly, your projector is already using a standardized power cable: The one
that goes into your wall socket.

For cables that don't terminate with a regular 2/3 prong on the other end,
there are a few standardized shapes there too. My monitors and PC PSUs all
take the same sort of connector on the non-wall-socket end even if they pull
different amperages.

~~~
nomel
The charge ports of cellphones have almost always had data capabilities built
in.

~~~
anticensor
Old Nokia chargers disagree with various barrel connectors. It is not like
"Anyone with thin-barreled Nokia charger?" was in the distant past.

~~~
nomel
Correct, thus my use of "almost always". For an example of an earlier dual
purpose port, the Sony Ericsson line from 2000.

------
OrangeMango
Apple should just be super courageous.

Their current phones already follow a charging standard: qi. The $5 qi charger
at Ikea charges an iPhone just fine. I have one on my desk.

Now, you are probably thinking that if something goes wrong, you'd rather be
able to fix it than to throw your phone in the trash, generating more
unnecessary waste. So Apple should take the lead and put a diagnostic port on
each phone. Perhaps at the bottom, in the middle. To reduce the negative
environmental impact of designing a new diagnostic port connection cable,
Apple should design their diagnostic interface to be compatible with the
billions of Lightning and/or USB-C cables already in the hands of consumers
and repair shops.

That would be courageous.

------
veeralpatel979
I'm with Apple on this one.

Apple has kept working on improving the charging experience for its phones
over time. The original iPhone cable, then lightning, then wireless charging.
This stifles innovation.

Also: doesn't the government have more pressing concerns to worry about?

I doubt Apple's lobbying against this for some nefarious reason, like locking
users into their proprietary technology.

~~~
wyattpeak
I think Apple genuinely believe that they can provide a better product, and I
believe they can too. I just don't care.

The inability to borrow cables or swap them between devices in the past was a
not insignificant hassle. Keeping boxes of cables, not being able to borrow a
friend's charger when visiting, not being able to replace cables except by
ordering a new one from the manufacturer half a world away. Constant minor
irritation.

The EU's first round of cable standardisation remains one of my favourite
quality-of-life laws. No slightly more reliable cable is worth more than me
than knowing I can use the same cable on as many devices as possible, and that
I'm never going to be stuck in the middle of nowhere unable to buy a
replacement charger for my phone.

It's also a point which the invisible hand has a great deal of trouble
solving, because phones are such a vital part of life that you're unlikely to
refuse to buy simply on the basis of its charger. It's an easy bit of revenue
for manufacturers to jump on, because they know it's probably not quite
annoying enough to significantly affect device choice. I love me a free market
solution, but it's important to recognise where the market fails, and we've
already seen it fail to solve this problem once.

~~~
lallysingh
Agreed. Also let's remember that Apple makes a pretty penny off of all those
cables and chargers.

~~~
Lio
More worrying to me, the charging port on this iPhone is wearing out. Simply
buying a new cable does nothing to fix that because the springs are in the
phone.

Lightning is a crap proprietary design from my point of view. If it was USB-C
I could just change the cable.

~~~
dimman
Your statement would make more sense if USB-C somehow magically would be
immune to wear, but it’s not.

~~~
eurleif
You didn't understand this sentence: "Simply buying a new cable does nothing
to fix that because the springs are in the phone." With Lightning, the springs
are in the phone. With USB-C, the springs are in the cable. Springs are a
moving part, and thus especially vulnerable to wear. Replacing a cable is
cheaper than replacing a phone.

~~~
dimman
I did. The springs wearing out very much means bad contact at the contact
points, we do agree there. However the receiver end with gold plated contacts
points do also wear out. I’ve yet to see anything pointing towards springs
wearing out before the gold plated areas (that is being worn by friction each
insertion/removal) do.

I’ve got a Lightning cable with worn out gold plated contact points, the
springs in the phone are perfectly fine.

My point being that without some reliable statistics pointing to springs being
way more susceptible to wear than gold plated contact points, it doesn’t make
any difference.

(FWIW: I currently work with factory equipment for PCB production testing and
bad contact due to oxidation and wear is a much bigger issue than springs
going bad, but that’s just my experience.)

------
martin8412
I still don't quite understand what this actually means, and frankly I'm not
certain that the politicians understand it either.

Is it just on the connector? Is it the charger plug? Amount of wires in the
cable? Cable gauge? Power rating? Proprietary charging protocols?

If everything about charging portable devices must be truly universal, then
every single piece of the puzzle must be the same for everyone. Sure, Apple is
the most prominent example because they use a different connector, but should
things like Qualcomm's proprietary charging protocols not also be banned then?
Unless they're willing to license it for free to everyone

How much power should the chargers be rated for? 5W, 18W, 50W? Different
devices have different power requirements, so should we just have all chargers
rated at the max that the spec allows for?

Just because the connector is the same also does not mean that the devices
will actually work together, lightning cables already have the requirement of
MFI certification from Apple, and they could probably do the exact same over a
USB-C cable.

~~~
ddlsmurf
I don't think they work at that level of detail that high up, they just vote
"make it universal" and then a bunch of other regulatory bodies need to setup
the exact requirements and negotiate them.

------
GeekyBear
We had the 30 pin dock connector on iPods and iPhones for eleven years and now
lightning for eight.

Forcing people to throw away most of a decade's worth of already purchased
cables and accessories does seem like an odd way to cut down on ewaste given
the fact that Apple already switched the chargers themselves to USB-C.

I guess my lightning compatible alarm clock/docking station can go live on a
nice farm with my long gone 30 pin alarm clock/dock, where they can both run
and play.

~~~
lostlogin
That 30 pin thing was barbaric and probably the least Apple-like thing they
ever made.

~~~
GeekyBear
The original iPod just had a FireWire port.

When they decided to make the iPod PC compatible we ended up with a connector
that was passing through FireWire, USB, audio, playback controls, and the
kitchen sink.

After a certain point, they started passing through video as well.

------
Agustus
A great way to stifle innovation.

Apple has been trying out cables and transfer types over the years
(thunderbolt, CD-ROM, USB, wireless) and they do it on the backs of the luxury
users, not too far off from what the luxury car makers in testing what to
propagate downstream.

Apple has set a standard to use their cable format, which works. If you go
through the litany of USB-B there were power issues, transfer rates, and a
whole host of other items that, while it met the standard, did not work. An
example is my Barnes & Noble Nook needing a special cable to work with the PC;
it was USB-B, but not using the right transfer and power source rendered
cables useless for interface.

If anyone can say the roll out of USB-C has been better, even with the
“standard” then there have been a number of articles on here that have pointed
to fake cables, horrible QC and other items.

So, a government agency has taken the draconian step of forcing a standard,
one which will be helpful for the European companies that produce phones and
people wonder why there is so much money in politics.

~~~
cosmodisk
It is absolutely not,in any way or form.Charger is only second to a power
plug.My TV, router, washing machine and hair dryer use the same type of plug
to get electricity from a socket. It's 2020 and yet we argue how it's
beneficial to have x types of phones with z types of connections...Come on!

~~~
npo9
Electrical plugs also haven’t had any real innovations since the ground wire.
I hope to see innovations in power/data cables to cellphones more frequently
than that!

Edit: even if the innovations is just faster data transfer and more power.

~~~
jakobegger
Electrical plugs have evolved besides adding a ground wire, at least in the
EU. The most recent improvement is that most new outlets are now child-save
(while staying compatible with legacy plugs).

And I think that it‘s a good thing that things don’t change all the time!

Our electronic devices that we use regularly need 4 different chargers! I‘m
looking forward to the day when it‘s all just going to be USB-C.

------
theslurmmustflo
I'll miss lightning when it's gone if only because it was the most satisfying
and secure feeling cable connection I've ever used. USB-C has some slack built
into it by design but it just makes it feel lower quality.

~~~
birdyrooster
The USB-C ports wear out badly after a couple years of use and are loose.
Lightning, as you are saying, still feels good after years of daily use. The
duty cycle is higher for lightning and should be used for things which are
often disconnected and reconnected like mobile devices.

~~~
bagacrap
I've used the same USB c charging port in my phone for 2 years without any
noticeable wear. I did, however, need to scrape out accumulated pocket lint
with a safety pin on two occasions. Are you sure there isn't lint in the port
you're basing your assertions on?

~~~
filoleg
Not the parent commenter, and I am not sure if there is lint in the port of my
lightning powered devices, but I am confident that I have never had to clean
it out to make it charge.

~~~
TillE
I had to clean out the lightning port on my iPhone 6 constantly, it was awful.
With the XS I almost exclusively use wireless charging because of that
experience.

~~~
filoleg
Cannot comment regarding iPhone 6 specifically, as I had been using Android
phones after iPhone 4 up until XS generation came out. It might be that Apple
has upgraded the lightning port tech over all those years between iPhone 6 and
XS, but that's just a guess.

------
_bxg1
I'm not someone who's shy about regulation, but even I think this is totally
unnecessary. As an Apple user, I should be the first to complain about their
own internal (inexplicable) lack of a standard (Lightning for phones, USB-C
for everything else). It's annoying, sure, but it's far from a material burden
on my quality of life.

Is this _really_ the problem we need to be spending our regulatory energies on
in 2020?

~~~
alt_f4
Every time you are buying a charger, wired headphones or any other iPhone
accessory, Apple collects a hefty license fee and you, indirectly, are paying
it.

Originally, the lightning port was a big improvement over existing tech.
Currently though, the only reason the lightning port still exists is because
it is a good way for Apple to use their market dominant position to milk
consumers. It is not good for consumers, it is also not good for the
environment. It is good just for Apple.

It is generally the job of the govt to prevent these types of abuses. Is this
particular law worded the right way for that? Maybe, maybe not, but it will do
the job for this particular case.

~~~
scarface74
How “hefty” can the license fee be when you can buy a pack of five lightning
cables for $14?

[https://www.amazon.com/Charger-AYNGWRNB-Certified-
Lightning-...](https://www.amazon.com/Charger-AYNGWRNB-Certified-Lightning-
Compatible/dp/B07VLLK7WZ)

But if Apple is being “abusive” by having proprietary hardware, does that mean
they should also force Nintendo to use standard media for the Switch? Should
they also force Apple to allow iPhones to run a more standard operating
system?

~~~
mthoms
Fully 40% of those reviews are 1-star reviews (mostly due to the cables not
working out of the box, or failing after a short time).

I get the feeling these aren't legitimately certified.

~~~
scarface74
The average rating is 2.8. They do data transfer and they charge the phone. I
use them now.

------
Rebelgecko
What does this mean in practice? Are Android phone makers going to have to
license the Lightning port from Apple? Or is the EU going to declare that
USB-C is the be all end all of phone plugs?

It sounds like they're trying to standardize the actual chargers, I wonder how
that will work USB-PDs many different modes? What about proprietary fast
charging schemes? (maybe those already died out after the move to USB-c?).

I'm slightly uncomfortable with the idea of a universal standard stifling
innovation, so hopefully the EU will be responsive if something better gets
invented in the future. I'm guessing that whatever comes after USB-C will
exist in the US and Asia for years before its allowed in the EU... which may
or may not be a good thing I suppose. USB-C as a plug has so many
capabilities.

It's interesting that they're looking at wireless charging too. Other than my
toothbrush and an induction stove, I can't remember the last time I saw
wireless charging that wasn't Qi. The only exception is some of the
experimental room-scale charging startups. I suppose they're already fighting
against the laws of physics, the laws of the EU can't be that much worse.

~~~
SideburnsOfDoom
> Are Android phone makers going to have to license the Lightning port from
> Apple? Or is the EU going to declare that USB-C is the be all end all of
> phone plugs?

It looks more like the latter. After all, Apple is the odd one out now.

[https://www.androidcentral.com/eu-may-push-iphones-adopt-
usb...](https://www.androidcentral.com/eu-may-push-iphones-adopt-usb-c-
androids-prefer)

~~~
GeekyBear
Apple's chargers already have moved to USB-C.

It's the cable included in the box with newer iPhones that is USB-C on one end
and lightning on the other.

------
sschueller
The only reason this happened is because one company refusees to play ball.
Everyone else already figured out that it's better for consumers and them.

Apple would sell you a non standard power socket for your house if they could.

~~~
jariel
"The only reason this happened is that one company refuses to play ball"

No, not at all.

It happened because legislators in the EU don't understand tech, don't
understand re-cycling, don't understand the industry, but they all use
iPhones+Androids and wonder why 'there are so many goddam cables'. It's a very
specific problem that just happens to be visceral and immediate with the
people in charge: they can all relate to it. So they want to 'do something'
and 'legislation' is what they do.

It's the wrong approach I hope cooler heads prevail.

~~~
iSnow
Haha, I've been around when tech-illiterate regulators from the EU weren't
around to stymie innovation in the oh-so important field of power connectors.

In fact, I still have a box full of wall-warts from at least 5 phone
manufacturers, and not one would fit on a different maker's phone. In fact,
for some producers, the power plugs were even different for different models.

Yeah, I so miss those days.

~~~
ashildr
I have the same box, with wall warts from my first cellphone in about 1998
until today.

Now tell me, how many of those wall warts are from Apple and _don’t_ have a
USB-Port or a fixed cable? Exactly 0.

Now tell me how many of the other manufacturer’s power adaptors have either a
fixed cable or a non-USB port?

All wall warts that came with any Apple Phone or iPad I ever used are still
usable because they are USB.

~~~
iSnow
>All wall warts that came with any Apple Phone or iPad I ever used are still
usable because they are USB.

Which is totally not a coincidence because back then, the EU was pondering
forcing a common standard down producer's side.

I still have a Apple FireWire-wall wart from my old iPod, though. Again not a
coincidence. It resides in the box with all the fondly-remembered Nokia- and
Siemens plugs from the same time.

------
jonplackett
I thought all these EU tech regulations might do some good

But now when I arrive at any website I have to accept cookie policy, then I
have to accept that they will invade my privacy and log my data (or waste half
an hour un-checking boxes) and only then can I get down to the business of not
signing up to their newsletter and not downloading their app.

Maybe this is simpler but tech companies seem to find loopholes faster than
they can be closed and we just get stuck in the middle with a crap version of
what we had before.

~~~
FeepingCreature
You don't have to accept that, and if you waste half an hour unchecking boxes
that site is doing malicious compliance.

In my experience it's three clicks or so to turn off data gathering. I could
not be happier with the GDPR.

~~~
jonplackett
Some sites make you turn off every ad partner individually!

And it’s not individual sites going rogue. It’s clearly a box from an ad
network. Not sure how you haven’t come across these.

~~~
FeepingCreature
I'd say more that the majority I've seen have been proper, and the nonproper
ones I've just not looked at and backed out. Not like I'm starved for reading
choice.

~~~
jonplackett
OK found an example - this is Reuters. A big proper site.

Go try and get into this site while declining cookies

It just pops up the consent dialogue full screen again (on mobile at least)
until you accept

[https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-electric-
norway/ele...](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-electric-
norway/electric-cars-grab-44-market-share-in-norway-in-january-idUSKBN1ZX27U)

~~~
FeepingCreature
Manage Consent -> Decline All?

edit: Oh wow you have to do that per click. Wow.

Let's hope they get sued for that.

------
norswap
What a load of bad faith from Apple to argue "against waste". Their latest
Macbooks only have USB-C slots, meaning one now needs to discard perfectly
good USB-A/HDMI/Thunderbolt (the last one being a port that they were the
major force behind) devices, or at least buy adapters.

My brother remarked recently: "What's the point of having thin laptops, if you
have to carry a book-size hub with you." (Which is also the reason people
might be tempted to wastefully discard USB-A peripherals in favour of USB-C
alternatives.)

------
SideburnsOfDoom
This is a good move. Finally my partner and I, with apple and android devices
respectively, can share chargers if need be.

it's a pity that Apple didn't play ball voluntarily, and had to be ordered to
be nice.

~~~
defnotashton2
Ahh yes an expensive legislative bill is how we solve that problem, instead of
a 5$, breakout cable from Amazon or most corner convince stores.

~~~
SideburnsOfDoom
Exactly. Less hassle, less wasteful, disposable electronic junk.

~~~
defnotashton2
The costs of the ink this regulation will be printed on will cost more than
whatever its attempting to save.

~~~
SideburnsOfDoom
The message that it sends to companies that don't play ball, and sort
something out voluntarily between themselves that is in consumers' best
interests (and by this I mean Apple), will be worth it.

"an expensive legislative bill" was not the first recourse to "how we solve
that problem". But it is a necessary fallback.

------
falcolas
The iPad Pro uses a usb c charger, as does the MacBook line; stifles
innovation my ass.

~~~
nemothekid
As far as I remember, this piece of legislation has been floating around since
USB mini. We have now gone through 2 revisions to a connector that is now
reversible and can carry video. Locking onto USB-C now could be a very "640k
ought to be enough for everybody" moment.

And if Apple was going to switch to USB C anyways, whats the point of this
legislation?

~~~
lukifer
> Locking onto USB-C now could be a very "640k ought to be enough for
> everybody" moment.

I agree in general; but at some point don't we hit diminishing returns? If I
were to say, "18.4 exabytes of RAM ought to be enough for everybody", that'd
be basically correct, even future-proofing for the craziest sci-fi holodeck
use cases we can imagine, right?

~~~
reaperducer
_I agree in general; but at some point don 't we hit diminishing returns? If I
were to say, "18.4 exabytes of RAM ought to be enough for everybody", that'd
be basically correct, even future-proofing for the craziest sci-fi holodeck
use cases we can imagine, right?_

But the legislation doesn't lock into something that might happen in the
future. It locks the future to what we have today.

~~~
Drakim
Does it actually do that? Have you read the legislation, or are you just
saying what you assume it says?

------
happytoexplain
Standardization is like a dream to me, and every time it advances I feel
ecstatic. However, it's important to note that standardization must not get in
the way of change. Unification does not mean that we can't, in a unified
manner, continue to upgrade. At this point in time, this is especially
critical to keep in mind, as USB-C is physically flawed - it often becomes
loose to the point of losing connection, or even falling out entirely, over
time spans as short as one year. This is unacceptable.

~~~
lostlogin
I’m a longtime Mac user. The current MacBook range is probably using the most
standard plugs of any MacBook range ever. I miss the old way as a range of
plugs is a range of options. Currently things can be plugged in that then
don’t work and most things seem to require a dongle.

------
PaulDavisThe1st
OK, I'm totally confused.

There's 3 parts that I can see to a wired charging situation:

1\. the device to be charged 2\. something that takes "house" power and does
whatever is necessary to convert it for charging purposes 3\. a cable between
them

It seems to me (who doesn't even own a phone, hah, what an idiot) that (2)
already exists in the form of things that plugin to a wall socket and offer 1
or more USB A sockets.

The does leave room for cable waste, as it only pins down 1 end of the cable.

What are we really discussing here?

------
jariel
This is point blank the example of 'effete good intentions -> really bad
legislation'.

It's really quite bad.

One of the primary motivations cited relates to waste and recycling - however
chargers represent an utterly minuscule component of individual waste.

A _much_ better approach from a waste management perspective would be to
require that all electronics gear be 'processed' (like batteries). The price
of the product 'pre includes' the cost of post-processing, so when it's picked
up in its special recycling category, the bit of labour is taken care of.

In fact - this could be applied to a wide variety of products.

As for 'charging standard' \- this can only work if it's led by a really smart
body, nimble enough to enable innovation and adaptatio, and it's most
certainly not the legislative body. The EU could 'empower' such a working
group, but should not be getting into the details.

Of course - this legislation will be hacked immediately - everyone will not
sell funky multi-adapter chargers with proprietary bits connected to the
standard bits. I don't doubt for one second Apple's ability to 'sell you more
crap'.

Finally - Apple uses mostly fairly standard stuff. I have a Samsung that uses
a far-flung USB kind of standard I've never seen elsewhere. Apple has actually
been focusing on USB-C pretty well on their own.

In summary: these kinds of rulings fundamentally do not belong at the level of
the legal draft - they belong in standards bodies. They will not solve the
problems they are intended to solve, and will simply accrue more overhead for
everyone in the EU. Solving issues of sustainability and recycling etc. should
be one elsewhere and likely requires some bigger picture thinking.

------
exabrial
Do we really need governments doing this? Imagine getting locked up for
selling phone cables.

~~~
ripdog
I'm not sure why you assume that this law, should it eventually appear, would
be enforced with jail time? For that matter, why it would even be targeted at
sellers of cables instead of phone makers?

------
qwerty456127
Although I'm more of an Android guy and and would certainly prefer the world
to use just 1 standard, I am to admit the Lightning connector feels like the
best I've ever seen. I would love if it could replace all the micro-USB and
USB-C.

------
1023bytes
Not even the wall outlets across the EU are standardised.

~~~
Al-Khwarizmi
Because they're much more difficult to standardise. They would require each
individual user to change all their plugs in their home, which is not even
something the average person can do.

On the other hand, finding a different connector and cable when you eventually
buy a new phone is seamless.

~~~
anticensor
They should standardise on a fused version of type C/E plug.

------
williamDafoe
I guess Apple has sold one too many $3 cables for $29.95 in the iStore ...

I see companies like Motorola, LG, Kyocera, and Nintendo as more abusive. Sell
a few tens of millions of devices ,(not 100M a year) and still, use a custom
proprietary charging cable and transformer, soldered together in 1 piece so it
hits the dumpster in 1-2Y when the cable frays!

------
SketchySeaBeast
I'm not sure how I feel about the requirements to unify the cables, but does
the Lightening port offer advantages does over USB-C?

~~~
lukifer
This is an instance where I oppose the idea in the abstract, but support it in
the specifics: USB-C has finally achieved a degree of "good enough"
(naming/labeling issues notwithstanding) to be the ideal universal connector.

But: imagine what we might have gotten stuck with if this law had been
implemented 10-20 years ago.

~~~
SiempreViernes
While this resolution isn't actually a law, it does call for the commission to
ensure standards get updated as technology develops, so I'm not seeing why we
should imagine us being extra stuck with some old technology.

~~~
lukifer
I think the fear is, the companies will be hindered from making those
innovations if they have to go through a centralized approval process,
particularly if that process is slow, bureaucratic, technologically
illiterate, resistant to change, etc (to say nothing of regulatory capture).

I'm not deadset against this sort of thing, and I think we could do a lot
worse than USB-C as the new universal connector (at least for the next decade
or so), but given past attempts at regulating tech (cookie banners), I think
it's a legitimate concern.

~~~
SiempreViernes
Well yes, but the upside of standards is that you are not beholden to a single
company that could at any point try to create vendor lock-in and force you to
pay an unfair price.

------
elchupanebre
EU demands common charger standard but does not require a specific type of
charger, right? It does not prescribe USB-C.

So, what prevents Apple from offering lightning connector as a common EU
standard? :) Problem solved!

------
mtnGoat
I find it terribly amusing that e-waste is one of their arguments. Every Apple
device I buy requires a new set of cables. I replace my hardware every the
years... Almost as if creating waste wasn't really a problem for them as long
as they were profiting.

------
krebspsycho
Running with the argument that the EU wants the plug that plugs into the phone
standardized... what about an Apple Watch that can make LTE calls? Would that
be considered under this? Where would you force a company to add a port of any
kind to a device that size?

------
SavageBeast
Great, a phone charging semantic designed and mandated by a committee of EU
bureaucrats. The jokes just write themselves here. Apple will no doubt bravely
respond by removing the charging port completely. Wait until these folks hear
about the Qi Standard!

~~~
vineyardmike
2021: EU forces you to accept a pop-up on every charge to acknowledge you’re
use of the charging functionality: explicit opt-in to charging.

------
finchisko
I hope they will think this thoroughly. Because forcing Apple to use USB-C on
all iPhones can generate significant waste in the early years of transition to
USB-C.

------
dang
Previous thread:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22033341](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22033341)

------
rumori
As a side note: a unified charging port might also mean more usb-c wired
headphones instead of disposable bluetooth earbuds. Another win for the
environment.

------
epicgiga
This isn't that unexpected.

The EU has tended to this kind of thing for a long time now, overriding its
opinions of how things should be "standardised" over the top of liberty. Makes
sense if you think about it: given its nature as an institution, its modus
operandi is to "standardize" and "make uniform", as a core expression of its
sovereignty over what is a highly heterogeneous territory.

Fortunately though, Apple will be around much longer than it will.

------
kmlx
oh man, after countless examples of EU regulation gone haywire (cookies, gdpr,
vat, link tax, copyright, bananas, diabetics, olive oil refills, epileptic
lightbulbs etc etc) one would have thought that the EU bureaucrats would have
finally taken a step back and pause a bit.

let's just hope Macron's push for an EU refresh come sooner rather than later.
because it's not normal looking more towards the UK removing a bunch of these
regulations than looking forward to yet another round of EU bureaucrats
messing everything up.

------
vr46
My iPad and Mac are usb-c. My iPhone isn’t. We all know this and have to carry
two cables or more. However, I already use a common charger as it’s only the
charger End that needs to be considered. We could save on cables, however.

Still, the irony of Apple complaining about being forced to adopt a standard
when they’ve been at the vanguard of aggressively dropping older ports is
amusing.

~~~
kortilla
> Still, the irony of Apple complaining about being forced to adopt a standard
> when they’ve been at the vanguard of aggressively dropping older ports is
> amusing.

Is it? Nearly every big industry player hates being regulated to make a
decision they didn’t make.

------
marta_morena
Wow, this is just yet another display of regulators complete ignorance of
technology. They just don't learn. Regulation is about 10-20 years behind the
current and their solution is to say: "You have to use this method of doing
things"

Yeah right, and next year? What do we do next year? Will we just wait for
regulators to approve a new way of doing things every 100 million years?

------
sh1mmer
If Apple are really bothered by this they should just make 2 versions
(lightening and USB-C) and let consumers choose.

They already do multiple versions for radios (GSM vs CDMA) so I can’t imagine
this would be a terrible challenge for them other than losing lightening cable
licensing fees.

------
PunksATawnyFill
The hypocrisy of Apple once again brings down shame.

And once again Europeans try to protect consumers, while U.S.
“representatives” abet corporations in ripping them off.

------
ajuc
Yay for sensible legislation.

~~~
defnotashton2
It doesn't add enough value to offset the cost of ink it was written in.

------
epicgiga
Standardizing (controlling) by fiat tech they didn't make, with no real need
or justification. Just for the sake of the flex, being busybodies, and
pretending they're important and "the boss of you".

Sooner that rabble gets overthrown the better. One domino has fallen now, hope
the rest follow in short order.

~~~
SideburnsOfDoom
We see lots of this mouth-frothing, hate-fulled rhetoric on reddit, and IMHO I
don't want it to spread.

~~~
t223
I believe it’s too late. In my opinion the current political climate has
fueled outrage culture and from my perspective things have gone from bad to
worse.

------
whatsmyusername
Apple is going to be dropping charging cables so... _shrug_?

------
myblake
iPhone’s not using USB-C is kind of a pain and I’m still not sure I love
government intervention in this area. Lightning is weird in that it works
quite well but as everything else has moved to USB-C it’s become more of a
weird outlier. Definitely a mixed bag overall.

------
mvanbaak
Its sad how almost all of HN blindly points to apple and states they are the
bad guys. With the number of devices out there, its totally more natural that
the standard will be lightning instead of micro-usb ir usb-c.

------
tanilama
I can't see a single reason why iPhone shouldn't use usb-c at the moment
except to build Apple's own walled garden to charge a surplus against its
customer.

~~~
reaperducer
Because lightning was available long before USB-C and there's no reason that
hundreds of millions of customers should have to switch to new cables and
throw billions of old chargers, wires, and accessories into landfills?

When USB-C is superior for using on phones, then I'm OK with it. But right now
it's just exchanging one plug for another because a bunch of bureaucrats say
so.

Does this mean in 20 years we'll still be stuck with USB-C instead of
something better because just Brussels says so?

~~~
ApolloFortyNine
Well right now, if you are not fully locked into the Apple ecosystem, you
require two cables. That's quite a waste, no?

We're quite lucky no PC manufacturer managed to get as big as Apple is today
back in the 80s-90s. There's no way we would have universal RAM, universal
Keyboards, universal Video Cards, etc, etc, today, if that was the case.

~~~
reaperducer
_Well right now, if you are not fully locked into the Apple ecosystem, you
require two cables. That 's quite a waste, no?_

No. I am not locked into the Apple ecosystem. Having two cables enables me to
charge two devices at the same time, no?

~~~
ApolloFortyNine
What if you want a cable in your office, and in the bedroom? One at work, one
at home, one in the car?

Are you going to make me list out every scenario that is doubled?

~~~
eanzenberg
Sigh these arguments are tiresome. I've already went full wireless at home, in
the car and at work. Never been happier.

------
nickserv
Good news, and I hope it passes the commission.

With USB-C there's no real reason to have other standards for charging a cell
phone.

And with that out of the way, manufacturers can focus on developing a
universal wireless charging protocol.

~~~
mrep
> With USB-C there's no real reason to have other standards for charging a
> cell phone.

I'll take lightning over usb-c anyday. I currently have a pixel 3 and it does
not connect half the time and yes, I clean out the stupid port with a
toothpick even though I never had to do that with an iphone.

Android auto is especially annoying as a slight bump can cause it to
disconnect and then it takes like 20 seconds to get it back running with the
map on the dashboard.

The stupid headphone jack connector also sucks because the only way I can work
out with it is if I use 2 rubber bands to pull the usb-c to headphone jack
connector tight constantly or else the slightest movement in my pocket will
disconnect it.

~~~
FireBeyond
Buy high quality cables. I have Philips USB-C cables and I -cannot- move them
in my MBP. Either horizontally or vertically. Not a wiggle. Nothing.

Cheaper lesser quality cables are the issue. Buy a 99c gas station Lightning
cable and see how well it works for you.

~~~
mrep
This work [0] or do you have a link to something you think will work?

[0]: [https://www.amazon.com/Philips-Charging-Compatible-
DLC5206BA...](https://www.amazon.com/Philips-Charging-Compatible-
DLC5206BA-37/dp/B07WFHDQBV/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=phillips%2Busb-c%2Bcable&qid=1580531741&sr=8-3&th=1)

~~~
FireBeyond
Looks good to me. I got the C-to-C:

[https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WFHNFSD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b...](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WFHNFSD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

------
m0zg
Pretty easy: just don't include charger in the box at all. Make Europeans pay
for the idiocy of their politicians. Apple, BTW, makes the best power supplies
in the industry, as confirmed by many teardowns.

If there's anything that needs to be standardized it's the port which is used
to charge the device. That port, today, should be USB-C. But the law doesn't
do that.

------
throwGuardian
Why should the EU government impose restrictions on mobile charger types?

I'm no fan of Apple,and frankly, I find it gratifying that someone is pushing
them around - something Apple routinely does to entities that aren't as
powerful, but regulating chargers in the name of __insert_populist_reason__ is
just way too authoritarian by the EU. Please go solve real problems

~~~
aaronmdjones
Electronic waste created because you can't use the charger from $vendor_x with
a mobile device from $vendor_y -- and subsequently have no use for the charger
-- is a Real Problem.

This is a step toward solving that, and thus, they are solving real problems.

~~~
toomuchtodo
What about mandating Qi wireless charging as well? Think of it as mandating
Bluetooth; you don’t care about the hardware, just meeting the wireless
interface spec.

If I could ubiquitously charge my mobile devices anywhere with gear built into
my surroundings, I’d likely never need future charging cables or hardware.

You lose some electrical efficiency but gain a reduction in physical hardware
churn.

~~~
aaronmdjones
Mandating wireless charging is still a bit of a stretch (it's not popular yet,
so would be a short-term cost and manufacturing increase), but wireless
charging is mentioned in the linked article as something they should look into
ensuring is broadly-compatible (which should help prevent incompatibility
waste when it does become ubiquitous).

Also, presently anyway, wireless charging generally has power limits on the
order of 5 watts, while the USB 3 PD spec allows for up to 100. A modern
mobile phone pulls more than 5 watts from a wall charger, so mandating
wireless charging would also result in a short-term charging time increase.
They're also not as easy to transport and use anywhere (e.g. on a train with a
power socket but without a tray table). Many people would find that
unacceptable.

My Nexus 5 had wireless charging, I had that phone for more than 3 years, and
I never got to use it before it died and I upgraded to a 6P, which doesn't
have it.

~~~
toomuchtodo
I’m on an iPhone 11 Pro Max with Qi chargers in my vehicles, on my night
stand, and at my desk and use wireless charging almost exclusively. Likely
where my bias originates for assuming wireless charging would see broad use.

I would like to see clean solutions in coffee shops and on trains for Qi
charging to enable the most common use cases of course.

------
hootbootscoot
APPLAUSE. awesome. Apple is monopolistic and is guilty of deliberate
obsolescence of even proprietary standards they helped push, like Firewire. I,
for one, and completely tired of them pretending that there is any basis other
than greed and the desire to control others. There is certainly a demonstrable
lack of technical motivations for the vast majority of their choices, and a
standard would presumably take any such concerns into account anyway.

