

The real reason why developers are awkward - swombat
http://trogger.com/discussions/the-real-reason-why-developers-are-awkward

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pmjordan
Maybe this is true for some people. I can't really find myself in this
article, though. I'm pretty sure I remember finding certain everyday social
situations difficult when I was little and had never touched code. I'd have to
say the same for a hacker friend who I've known since age 6 (!) - he "didn't
quite fit in" from the start.

Programming hasn't made me awkward. Instead, I've taught myself how to deal
with situations, making me much _less_ awkward. (to the point of being pretty
normal and hardly awkward at all)

And as the reverse of the article, I find hours of social interaction (mostly
with people other than friends) extremely exhausting. Unlike the author, I
don't warm up, I just feel drained and want some time to myself to regenerate.

~~~
kwamenum86
<http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200303/rauch>

~~~
pmjordan
Awesome. I'm forwarding that to my girlfriend.

 _"It has even learned, by means of brain scans, that introverts process
information differently from other people (I am not making this up)."_

Just as the rest of the article, this part certainly rings true for me. The
fact that I don't think in terms of words seems to baffle people. I always
thought this might be because I was raised bilingually, so my thought process
might be happening on some kind of superset of the two languages. Maybe,
however, it's this that the author alludes to and has no connection with
language? It'd have been nice if he had covered more of this angle.

~~~
edu
I've been rised bilingual (Catalan and Spanish) and now I think I'm fluent in
English, and I find myself thinking in the three languages (mostly Catalan and
English) in different moments.

What is more weird is that I'm more or less social depending on the language
I've to use, being much more social talking in English than in Spanish or
Catalan. I think it may be due to the fact that the English classes I took
where very participative and I was usually forced to talk. I really don't
know.

(And for the article, right now after 5 days of vacation, back at work, and
after 6 hours coding I'm really looking forward to go out and socialize a
little bit more (I'm pretty happy I have a very good environment at work), but
sunday after spending all day with people I was eager to sit in front of my
computer and code for hours.).

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ktharavaad
Programming makes weird because even though I'm not coding, I'm thinking about
my code all the time and as a result of that, I rather live in my own head
than interact with people around me.

However, its also during these times ( not in front of computer ) that I often
think of the most brilliant re-factoring, algorithms and ideas for my code. So
strange as it sounds, socializing helps me to code.

~~~
atas
"So strange as it sounds, socializing helps me to code."

Too bad it doesn't work the other way too...or maybe it does?

~~~
access_denied
It could make you better at UID.

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swombat
I have to agree with the thesis of this mini-article. The mind-set of
productive coding (for me) is extremely anal and abrasive. The computer
doesn't care about niceties, it only cares about correctness, and so to feed
it, it is more important to express things exactly and correctly than nicely.

I often find myself being a lot more brutal in my communications if I'm in the
middle of, or emerging from, a coding session, than the rest of the time.

~~~
quan
I have the same experience as well. Whenever I'm most proficient with coding
and have to leave for lunch with my coworkers, I find myself just sitting
there not participating in the conversation at all. The reverse is also true,
it often takes me substantial amount of time to get back to my most efficient
coding mode after going out.

I think the reason is more than just b/c my mind is immersed with the problem.
Even when we work in the same team and discuss the same technical problem I
still find it difficult to engage in the conversation. As a bilingual speaker
it's always awkward for me to switch between English and my native language,
especially if I spend a long duration using one exclusively.

My guess is developers won't feel awkward if we can socialize in machine
language. That also saves tons of time spending on switching in and out of the
awkward mode.

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matthewking
Being a developer gives you an endless source of learning, there's always
something new to experiment with. For me that meant that in my late teens I
was often messing about with code and reading books whilst my friends were
calling saying they were bored, as a result they'd look to social interaction
to solve their boredom, including going out to parties etc.

I think that's the start of the divide. When you do eventually pop your head
up from your laptop, your friends have all developed superior social skills
than you, so you're instantly out of place and on the back foot in highly
social situations such as parties and nights out.

I recognise that I lack certain social skills required to flourish in big
crowds and groups, but I think its just a matter of forcing myself to attend
events, be more open with people and it'll improve. If you do something all
the time, providing you're a good learner - it _should_ get easier.

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plinkplonk
I am not sure I agree with the "developing makes you awkward" idea. I don't
know if there is any scientific basis to the introversion/extroversion axis,
but I've had great success in building up an extrovert persona that I am
completely comfortable in, though all the tests I've taken puts me strongly in
the "introvert" end of the spectrum.

The Myers-Briggs test for example gives me an INXJ profile (with a very strong
"I" score). About a decade ago, I figured out that "becoming" more of an
extrovert could really balance my life out, and now it is something I can
swoitch on and off as well to the point where (a) I am equally comfortable in
either mode and (b) people who have seen my "extrovert" side can't believe I
am perfectly happy sitting alone in a corner and coding for a few days or
weeks if that is what the situation warrants, or alternatively party for a 12
hours staright. I don't know if this is relevant, but I am extremely
comfortable with public speaking and quite enjoy theatre(performance) and
music(performance).

I wonder if this whole "personality" thing isn't very fluid (and thus
hackable). Just one anecdotal data point against the "development makes you
awkward" idea.

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sown
I started out awkward from a young age.

Programming just suits me.

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puzzle-out
I'm not a hacker, but work with a at times very awkward programmer, who often
sends out emails which are a monument to pedantry. Reading this article makes
me more understanding. On the flip side, should one be worried if they are
working with a programmer who is not awkward, then?

~~~
mechanical_fish
_should one be worried if they are working with a programmer who is not
awkward, then?_

Part of the article's theme is that the awkwardness comes and goes. When the
author is not programming he doesn't feel awkward at all.

It's also important to realize the range of human variation. There are
programmers who can code at top speed while carrying on a continuous patter.
They're not common, but they exist. There are programmers who do all their
work with an IRC session chugging along in an adjacent window. I can't seem to
cope with that, myself -- I can't focus when messages are scrolling by in my
peripheral vision. I also can't focus when there's music playing, but other
people can't code _without_ music.

~~~
LogicHoleFlaw
I find that when I'm in the middle of an intense coding session I become
abrasive and distracted from others' perspective. If you interrupt me when I'm
working on a problem, I will lose it! In several senses. I find that I can't
work when there is music playing - generally when I start working I have music
quite loud but as I get more immersed in the problem it becomes quieter and
quieter until I mute it completely.

On the other hand I'm comfortable in social situations so long as I have some
time for that mental intensity to dissipate. I just need a buffer to switch
modes.

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christofd
It probably matters how you program. If you spend more time doing research,
then you are not so much in danger of wasting time with hacking away at stuff
in the hope that enduring trial and error will solve the problem.

I try not to spend that much time actually coding stuff and probably spend
more time working stuff out on paper and talking to people before using a
computer.

~~~
christofd
I guess in my heart I'm not really a hacker. But computers are good at getting
things done.

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wglb
Disagree. Been a hard-core programmer for 43 years and an occasional manager.
My friends think of me as being as social as anybody, as do I.

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plesn
Social interaction requires you to relate to other's experiences. When I'm
often in the zone, I not only feel more distant, but also have less to say as
usually I read less then, don't go out much.

Moreover, I often feel dissatisfied of myself while I don't have some tangible
results at work. Then I feel shy and can't enjoy the moment. People see that
(and especially girls I think!).

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mannicken
Programming made me over-rationalize surroundings in a sociopathic, House-like
way. I don't find it particularly hard to not be awkward but in most cases I
don't see why.

Being awkward helps me deal with (unwanted) attention and loads of bullshit
that most people try to unload on me for some reasons.

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redcap
I'm working from a functional spec and just getting used to the business at my
new job. Because the spec sometimes isn't very clear I have plenty of
opportunities to talk to my supervisors to ask them to clarify things.

Of course this is very different from shooting the breeze over a drink or
lunch.

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ssharp
These articles are mostly boring and they seem to constantly pop up. I think
programming tends to attract less social people because you can do so much on
your own. It's also a brainy activity and a lot of smart people are not
particularly social.

It's a genetic fact that all personalities are different. Some people are more
naturally social than others. That may lead them to careers other than
programming. However, this shouldn't excuse the developer from being socially
awkward. Humans are naturally social creatures and learning to be social
should not be something that is ignored. I think people who are more social
are more happy and lead more fulfilling lives. Why you may enjoy sitting
behind a screen for 12 hours a day, I think you'd be a lot happy spending 8
hours behind the screen and the other 4 interacting with people.

~~~
LogicHoleFlaw
_people who are more social are more happy and lead more fulfilling lives_

Wow, that's a bigoted extrovert perspective. Really, I'm just fine being alone
with myself and my thoughts. Sure, company is nice from time to time but no
amount of training will change the fact that introverts find other people
draining.

I took a class on public speaking once, and the instructor mentioned that I
was the most personable speaker she'd ever known. I still need plenty of alone
time to recharge after dealing with people for any extended length of time.

Don't underestimate the calmness, power, and meditative qualities of
introversion and self-acceptance.

~~~
oz
Hallelujah. You can find good articles in this vein at sengifted.org

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biohacker42
It's not as bad for me, but I do sense the same things. After a long day of
coding it takes me about 30 minutes of conversation to get back into talking.

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timothychung
Shouldn't we make programming more social? Something like programming 2.0. :-)

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timothychung
I wonder why I get a vote down for this comment.

Programming 2.0 is happening as open source development. Just because I
presented my point in a casual way does not mean my comment is meaningless and
negative to the community.

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travers
If people were logical and did what I said we would get along just fine.

