
Why so many Americans claim Cherokee ancestry - samclemens
http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/160700
======
tlb
"the number of Americans who self-identify as Cherokee or mixed-race Cherokee
has grown substantially over the past two decades."

Assuming completely random mating, the ancestor count of a small group inside
a large stable population should double every generation.

"In 2000, the federal Census reported that 729,533 Americans self-identified
as Cherokee. By 2010, that number increased, with the Census Bureau reporting
that 819,105 Americans claiming at least one Cherokee ancestor."

12% in 10 years, or 33% in 25 years (a modern generation) is less than would
be expected by that first-order theory.

~~~
jessriedel
Yea, this article is weird. Why would a professor lead the piece with a
suggestion that a bunch of this students are deluded and then provide
essentially zero evidence that this is the case?

~~~
protomyth
"In the United States alone, the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma estimates there
are over 200 fraudulent groups claiming to be Cherokee."

The author doesn't go into great detail, but it the estimate is probably
correct given the statistics of the situation. The tribes have the tribal roll
with the ancestry. You can do further reading on the genetic testing and
people's beliefs about their ancestry.

~~~
jnbiche
Based on my experiences with non-recognized tribes of other affiliations, I'd
be willing to best that a lot of those "fraudulent" groups are legitimate
Native American tribes, or at the very least organized groups of people with
shared Native American ancestry, but ones that are not officially recognized
by the US Government.

Yes, there are fake tribes that come out of the woodwork hoping to gain casino
rights, but many if not most of these non-recognized groups often accused of
being fraudulent have verifiable histories going back 100 or more years, and
have been studied by historians and anthropologists (with publications to
prove it). It's a shame that such groups are denied the recognition they
deserve, even after all that has happened in this country.

~~~
plonh
It is also a shame that casino rights is the form of recognition they seek.

~~~
glesica
It's a shame that casino rights is the only meaningful form of recognition
being offered...

~~~
protomyth
That is definitely not true. Federal recognition brings a host of abilities
for a people to organize including the ability to form a government and other
institutions.

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amttc
I'm from the South and hear this all the time. I have no idea how many people
are actually descended from the Cherokee (they were one of the larger groups
in the South). I have a different crackpot theory. Historically, admitting you
were less than 100% white was a dicey proposition. Sometimes I wonder if there
aren't actually a larger than obvious percentage of people who have Native
ancestors, but since they were assimilated, their descendants are only dimly
aware of it and use "Cherokee" as a catch-all for saying they have some Native
American blood in them. I'm sure some people are getting confused or just
retelling tales passed down, but the South did have a lot of Native Americans
in it. Has anyone researched this?

~~~
waterlesscloud
Yeah, I'm from the south and was always told some ancestor was Cherokee. Never
really believed it, since it really is the sort of thing most families say.
But then 23andme confirmed Native American dna as a small percentage for me.
Go figure. It might all be more true than most people think.

~~~
ScottBurson
Well, I have the opposite story. I was always told I was 1/256 Cherokee, but
according to 23andme, I have no Native American ancestry -- however, I'm about
.4% African. .4% is pretty close to 1/256, so I think the race of one of my
ancestors was, um, edited.

I think amttc is on the right track, but needs to take it a little farther.

~~~
Jtsummers
I have a friend with North African ancestry (mother is Spanish) and neither of
her sisters show the same (all with 23andme).

At that distance, it's entirely possible you have the ancestry claimed and the
ancestry discovered, but the DNA which would show it is absent for your Native
American ancestry.

~~~
ScottBurson
Good point. You're right -- it's possible. I don't think any of my other
family members have gotten analyzed. That would shed more light on the
situation.

Edited to add: well, look at it this way. If one _were_ part African in
Alabama in the 19th century, one would be well advised to claim to be part
Cherokee, if one's coloration and features were such that one could get away
with it. Given that, I think Occam's razor inclines me toward the possibility
I suggested.

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serpentor
God damn it. That guy needs to learn to spell out certain key points, when
writing an article. Maybe he'll consider bouncing his material off an editor
from time to time.

    
    
      I’ve long ceased questioning students about the specifics 
      of their claims. Their imagined genealogies may simply be 
      a product of family lore, or, as is occasionally the 
      case, a genuine connection to a Cherokee family and 
      community.
    
      ... help explain why the Cherokees occupy a prominent place 
      in our collective historical consciousness.
    
      ... why so many Americans hope to find a Cherokee in their family tree.
    

He doesn't come right out and say it, for whatever reason, but the thrust of
the article is that such claims are dubious, tall tales.

He needs to add at least one sentence clarifying that he believes most, if not
all such claims to be full of shit, and pants-on-head silly, or just plain
college student shenanigans.

His article would further benefit from a line or three stating plainly that:

1\. The Cherokee possess the most popular of all Native American tribal names.
People who are lying tend to craft their lies around well-known popular
things, especially when a well-known thing might be THE ONLY thing they can
remember in a subject area.

2\. The Cherokee nation possesses a sympathetic tale as part of the fabric of
their historical background. This benefits liars, because it's more difficult
to accuse lies upon a person courting sympathy. You better be sure of your
accusation, or you'll seem to be a villain amongst the liar's audience.

3\. The Cherokee actually DO have a REAL diaspora of actual credible
descendents, larger in size than most other nations. This contributes to a
knock-on effect that ties into reason number one, there are more actual
Cherokees floating around, thus they are more well-known, and thus remain the
go-to Indian name for people who might craft lies to embellish their heritage
in casual conversation.

These are the main points I'm gathering from the author's article, although he
kind of couches his words in oblique assumptions about the reader.

Maybe he's worried about catching heat over proposing these sorts of ideas.

~~~
lobster_johnson
Not saying it was a brilliant article, but I got all three points without
having to read it multiple times, and I thought it was quite clear. I liked
that he didn't spoon feed the reader with predigested conclusions.

~~~
serpentor
I'm complaining about his beating around the bush, not a reading comprehension
thing. I like to know where the author stands on the topic at the outset,
otherwise the article feels dishonest.

For example:

    
    
      I think there are a lot of people lying to 
      themselves and others about their own 
      ancestry.
    

Compared to:

    
    
      Isn't it interesting that so many people feel 
      compelled to form opinions about how we might 
      notice that there are statistical variances,
      when comparing observable heritage, as 
      compared to reported heritage? I wonder why 
      that would be? Some might say these are 
      alleged fabrications, but then again this 
      could all be very innocent.

~~~
lobster_johnson
But that's clearly inferred by this:

    
    
        In the United States alone, the Cherokee Nation of
        Oklahoma estimates there are over 200 fraudulent
        groups claiming to be Cherokee. Visit websites
        devoted to genealogy, and one will find scores of
        Americans expressing their disappointment when DNA
        testing contradicts family legnds about great,
        great grandma being Cherokee.
    

So, first of all, there are groups that outright make fraudulent claims about
Cherokee ancestry. Secondly, there are lots of people who have believed — and
claimed — to be descendants of Cherokee who discover that they have in fact
been mislead.

You could argue that he doesn't provide the evidence (who are these 200
groups, and where do we find these "scores of Americans expressing their
disappointment"?), but that's par for the course in a fluffy article like
this. I don't see any bushes being beaten around, however.

------
noahlt
My family tells a story about a distant great^n uncle of mine, who married a
Cherokee woman. She had grown up without tables and chairs, as you might
imagine, and was more comfortable squatting than sitting. Of course, my uncle
wanted his wife to be at the dinner table with him. So he built a stool of
such height that she could squat on it and be roughly eye level with her
European-descendant family members sitting around the table. And they lived
happily ever after.

I like to tell that story any time someone claims that technology pushes
people apart rather than bringing them together.

~~~
jessaustin
When I worked in Singapore, our office building had only western-style toilets
rather than the hole-in-the-floor type. So of course many employees had to
climb up on them in order to squat.

~~~
davidw
> western-style

The holes in the ground are actually fairly common in Italy.

~~~
jessaustin
"Western-style" is what everyone called them when it made a difference. (In
USA they're called just "toilets"; perhaps Europe is similar?) I've seen the
hole-in-the-floor type in a fancy resort in Japan. Is that also the case in
Italy? Keep in mind this hole still has standing water and a trap and still
_flushes_. It shouldn't be confused with the vault style you see in more
rustic locations, with or without a "toilet" seat.

------
bitwize
"Being part Cherokee in Oklahoma is like being a Cubs fan in Chicago."
\--Sarah Vowell

------
api
I saw a signal for some Cherokee ancestry via 23andme. My family never said
anything about it. I've got ancestors from the Appalachian region so it makes
some sense, and I'm inclined to trust SNP analysis more than family stories.
:)

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eugenekolo2
I'm a bit surprised that the benefit of claiming to be Cherokee for the sake
of college applications isn't brought up. But overall, the author tries
heavily to not take a stand, or insult anybody.

~~~
eplanit
A well-known example of this from the recent past:

[http://elizabethwarrenwiki.org/elizabeth-warren-native-
ameri...](http://elizabethwarrenwiki.org/elizabeth-warren-native-american-
cherokee-controversy/)

~~~
burkaman
That site looks super biased, I think maybe wikipedia
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Warren#Native_Americ...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Warren#Native_American_heritage_controversy))
or news articles would be better sources.

~~~
eugenekolo2
I wouldn't trust something specifically named "elizabethwarrenwiki" as trust
worthy. But, relying on Wikipedia isn't too much better. Not for politics.

------
jagermo
As a German: Could someone explain me, why Americans love to be "1/8th
something"? There is a high chance that whenever I talk to someone, they say
"Oh, yeah, I am 1/64th German!" \- and if I ask them if they know the language
or culture (besides Rammstein) or if they visited Germany ever, almost anyone
says no.

Is it just one of these safe smalltalk topics, like sports or weather? In the
future, should I be interested and ask them about it? Or just say "how nice"
and move along?

~~~
smcl
I think it's innocent enough, a country with a huge amount of semi-recent
(within 2-3 generations) immigrants is bound to have a lot of people with a
bit of mixed heritage, a number of which will be doing a bit of searching for
some kind of cultural identity. An "oh really?" and maybe a polite question
about which part of Germany their family is from, if they are still in contact
with their German family etc will probably suffice.

However there's little excuse for "You're Scottish? Do you know my cousin
Kenneth?" to which the appropriate response is "Ohhh _Kenneth_ ... yeah
everyone knows him. He's a real jerk" :)

------
Steko
A very interesting article along the same lines:

[http://thislandpress.com/2014/08/26/among-the-tribe-of-
the-w...](http://thislandpress.com/2014/08/26/among-the-tribe-of-the-
wannabes/)

------
awqrre
Don't you need to be at least 1/4 (or maybe 1/16) Cherokee native American to
be able to claim it?

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_quantum_laws#Tribes_requ...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_quantum_laws#Tribes_requiring_1.2F4_degree_blood_quantum_for_membership)

