

John Mayer on Finishing Awful Songs - jal278
http://blog.joellehman.com/?p=95

======
techiferous
...and sometimes that song of yours that you think is so awful turns out to be
a chart-topper:

 _The thing about 'Sweet Child o mine,' it was written in five minutes. It was
one of those songs, only three chords. You know that guitar lick Slash does at
the beginning? It was kinda like a joke because we thought, 'What is this
song? It's gonna be nothing, it'll be filler on the record.' And except that
vocal-wise, it's very sweet and sincere, Slash was just messing around when he
first wrote that lick._

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweet_child_of_mine>

~~~
gruseom
That's a great quote. This is very common in pop music. The songs that
resonate most with audiences often seem trivial at first to the artist.

I think partly this is because we are less creative when we have a lot of
preconceptions about how a "proper" work is supposed to go. It's supposed to
be hard, for example. Throwaway work can be free of those preconceptions
because one isn't taking it seriously. What one ends up spontaneously creating
can thus turn out to be more valuable. I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds
Sweet Child to be the only memorable thing they ever did.

Wish I could remember other famous examples of classic songs being this kind
of toss-off. Blowing in the Wind is one that comes to mind. But there are so
many.

~~~
heed
One of Death Cab For Cutie's most popular songs is "I Will Follow You Into The
Dark." It was written in 15 minutes.

[http://www.vh1.com/video/misc/657035/i-will-follow-you-
into-...](http://www.vh1.com/video/misc/657035/i-will-follow-you-into-the-
dark-vh1-storytellers.jhtml)

~~~
JoeAltmaier
...and "A Hard Day's Night" was written one night to match the movie title,
which was chosen essentially at random.

------
watmough
Judging by the number of uncompleted projects littering my hard-drive, this
idea obviously has a wider application.

I think Mayer's real point is that, unless you finish something, you don't
gain the benefit of the experience of completing something, and you can never
get to a point where you can judge your results.

In my case, I've switched to using git which encourages me to make lots of
small commits, and I'm really making an effort to 'push the big boulders up
the hill', just a little at a time. I just have to finish more apps, both
because I need the experience, and I need to improve.

You might write shit code, or you might write great code, but unless you
finish, your work isn't going anywhere.

~~~
keeptrying
"I think Mayer's real point is that, unless you finish something, you don't
gain the benefit of the experience of completing something, and you can never
get to a point where you can judge your results."

Thats a pretty nice quote too :) ...

~~~
watmough
Haha, thanks so much!

People always say you should write about what you know, and I've spent far too
long on the not completing work side of the equation.

~~~
keeptrying
LOL ... Dont get so down on yourself. Lots of people dont even start stuff on
the side.

IMHO finishing is more about having the guts to show your project to someone
and taking feedback. Quality is always in the eye of the beholder.

------
thecoriander
This article described my exact experience with writing songs. In the end, you
wind up with a bunch of half-baked, fragmented ideas that don't fit together
into a cohesive whole. Music, like programming, is meticulous, but also
mysterious in the way that sudden inspiration can light a fire under you. When
inspiration fails, however, we have to soldier on and get the work done, all
in the name of self-improvement.

------
keeptrying
Another way to look at it is that "You have to perservere so that your
execution catches up with your taste."

I read a blog post explaining that this is the reason you dont see great
writers who have a Masters or higher in literature. Their taste is so refined
that when they read their own attempts at writing they get very discouraged
and give up.

Hmmm now I have to go finish off my crappy app.

------
rlander
Or: real artists ship.

[http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Real_Artists_Ship...](http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Real_Artists_Ship.txt)

------
hammock
When you get to Mayer's level, you don't have to finish your songs- you have
people, experienced writers who do it for you. Dirty secret of the trade.

~~~
untog
As much as I want to hate Mayer, I'm pretty sure he doesn't do that. That
said, he did make a funny video about it:

[http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/611387370c/makin-music-
with...](http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/611387370c/makin-music-with-john-
mayer-from-john-mayer-judd-apatow-kristen-bell-gerrybednob-ian-roberts-and-
cohenobrien)

------
BasDirks
In art it is entirely personal whether you finish "awful" songs. You really
think Rilke would have been better off finishing every poem he started
writing? Nonsense. If you have a Muse, better obey her.

When it comes to software: perhaps you ought to give things more thought
before you begin?

------
nazgulnarsil
Mayer's quote is a garbled mess to me.

~~~
roryokane
I agree that it is written unclearly. One problem is the use of the word
“possible” where he means “possibly”, but there are many more badly worded
parts. This is what I think he’s saying:

    
    
        Many people give up on writing songs before the songs are
        finished because they don’t expect the songs to be good.
        Most people are wrong about this, for one of two
        possible reasons:
    
        1. they are just being lazy and making up excuses for
           not finishing
        2. they are underestimating the quality of their work
           because they're looking at an unfinished product; if
           they saw how the finished product, they would think
           it’s okay.
    
        Therefore, you should finish writing your song, even if
        it’s a ‘bad’ song, because in the end, it probably won’t
        be bad after all.

~~~
jal278
Maybe it's almost a plus that the quote is a bit muddled; I interpreted it in
a different way:

Even if it is a bad song, at least you've written a full bad song, which means
you may have learned something that may make your next creation better.

Both interpretations are valid, and both reflect something about innovation in
general.

------
cafard
Then there's Flaubert who took friends' advice to throw a novel into the fire
and start over.

