
What Really Happened at the School Where Every Graduate Got into College - onewhonknocks
https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017/11/28/564054556/what-really-happened-at-the-school-where-every-senior-got-into-college
======
userbinator
This reminds me of things like [https://blog.codinghorror.com/why-cant-
programmers-program/](https://blog.codinghorror.com/why-cant-programmers-
program/) and when I was (briefly --- thankfully) involved in teaching CS
courses a few years ago. More than half the class clearly hadn't actually
passed the prerequisites. Lots of begging for leniency and remarking, some
extremely emotional appeals. It's a difficult situation because if you let
them through, it only creates problems further down the line; and if you
don't, then everyone questions your teaching ability (but strangely enough,
not the _learning_ ability of the students, which most certainly has a huge
effect on how well they do.) I chose the latter and don't regret it --- and
left that industry before long, although not before accumulating a pretty
negative reputation, because my class' grades would always be a _strongly_
bimodal distribution with one of the peaks well below the failing point.

 _School district leaders, including Wilson, defend the use of makeup work,
arguing they want to give students "multiple opportunities" to show they
understand material._

Contrast this with the attitude of some more demanding professions like
piloting an aircraft: "If you don't get it right the first time, it could be
the end of your career, or even your life."

~~~
thaumasiotes
> if you let them through, it only creates problems further down the line; and
> if you don't, then everyone questions your teaching ability (but strangely
> enough, not the learning ability of the students, which most certainly has a
> huge effect on how well they do.)

American policy is dedicated to the principle that no two people differ in
learning ability.

~~~
dragonwriter
> American policy is dedicated to the principle that no two people differ in
> learning ability.

No, its dedicated, depending on how cynically you view it, to either bringing
up the performance of the lower-end of the distribution or to painting public
schools as failing to support privatization. It is absolutely _not_ dedicated
to the principle that no two people differ in learning ability, and, in fact,
rather directly addresses the existence of learning disabilities.

~~~
thaumasiotes
It is dedicated to bringing the performance of the lower end _all the way up
to the level of the higher end_. This can't be done if you're willing to
concede that the higher end might be able to learn faster.

If an innovation in education improves outcomes by 3% for stupid students and
5% for smart students (you know... because they respond better to education),
that's actually a bad thing from the conventional viewpoint, because "the gap"
has widened instead of narrowing.

~~~
dragonwriter
> It is dedicated to bringing the performance of the lower end all the way up
> to the level of the higher end.

No, its not. (Though if it continues without change it will probably have the
effect of narrowing that gap to near zero, but largely by bringing the higher
end down through neglect rather than by bringing the lower end up to it.)

> This can't be done if you're willing to concede that the higher end might be
> able to learn faster.

Its quite possible if you acknowledge that but then consciously plan to
neglect serving the upper end.

------
seibelj
When you financially incentivize teachers to hit measurable data targets,
don't be surprised when they game the system to hit those targets. The same
happens in every industry and job. If I were to tell software developers that
their bonus was dependent on hitting story point metrics, they would suddenly
be exceeding the story point metrics I desired, despite in reality the same
amount of work being completed.

The real problem here is that the stakes are the students' education, and in
truth their futures. I wish I could think of some easy solution to this
problem but it's so damn hard. I believe a lot of it comes down to the parents
and their values, but that's a tough problem to fix.

~~~
schoen
Your observation is related to something called Goodhart's Law:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law)

I guess thinking about this increases my sympathy for search engines and spam
filters not being transparent about the algorithmic bases for their rankings,
even in a week when I've had some personal e-mail blocked as a spam false
positive. The resources that are getting put into discovering how to game
those scores are staggering.

I assume there are also exceptions to Goodhart's Law in terms of metrics that
effectively can't be gamed, or that otherwise better manage to align different
groups' incentives.

~~~
seibelj
The best case in business is when you tell a sales professional that they will
get a percentage of whatever business they bring in, judged the moment when
it's in accounts receivable. It's difficult to game a wire transfer from
another company.

Education is very different than sales. I don't know what the solution is,
especially when measuring "learning" itself is very difficult if not
impossible.

~~~
jeffdavis
"especially when measuring "learning" itself is very difficult if not
impossible."

That's ridiculous. Math, science, vocabulary, history, and reading
comprehension can all be tested effectively, with little risk of "gaming" it.

(at least at the level of a tpyical high scholl curriculum)

~~~
HarryHirsch
Especially high school math can be gamed effectively. For "word problems" you
can drill students to look for keywords and they will arrive at the right
result without understanding the problem.

My wife teaches at a 4-year state school and tells me that one of her students
did just that, she looked for plausible keywords but then didn't know what to
do next, this was chemistry, not math.

Reading comprehension is harder to game.

~~~
yorwba
> you can drill students to look for keywords and they will arrive at the
> right result without understanding the problem

> she looked for plausible keywords but then didn't know what to do next

That doesn't sound like she arrived at the right result.

------
Roritharr
A german friend of mine always used to say:"In any other mission critical
profession, if you are a doctor, a craftsman or an airplane engineer, if you
fuckup something too badly, you will be forbidden to continue working in your
profession for misconduct(atleast in Germany). In our job, people can ruin
lives, destroy whole companies and then have that seen as experience on their
CV."

As horrifying the idea of career ending bugs sound to me, we probably need to
appreciate the fact that there's a level where adding "coders" to the pool is
doing more harm then good when we look at what it will do to the understanding
of what's "acceptable".

~~~
jacobush
I think the current state of affairs is an acknowledgment of the fact that
___we don 't know how to engineer software systems_ __.

------
berbec
At my high school they pulled bs like this too. We all had to apply to our
local community College, which had a 100% acceptance rate. They also had a
100% graduation by changing anyone who wouldn't pass to a junior.

~~~
surfmike
Both sound like good ideas to me. Community college is generally better than
ending your education in high school.

And allowing people to graduate without passing their grade level seems like a
bad idea. (Unless you're saying they were changed to juniors but then no
longer went to the high school).

~~~
stickfigure
Unfortunately, it seems merely being accepted is the wrong metric. From the
article:

 _The school district won 't know how many Ballou graduates enrolled in
college overall until May, a spokesperson says. We know of 183 students
accepted to the University of the District of Columbia, the local community
college. But only 16 enrolled this fall._

~~~
zaroth
It seems to me, and the part of the story that’s missing, I would bet that the
Administration applied on behalf of the “graduates” to the community college
with a 100% acceptance rate.

I think what’s most impressive is how they’ve convinced themselves their fraud
is actually all in the best interest of the students.

------
ravenstine
> The majority of Ballou’s 2017 graduating class missed more than six weeks of
> school

If not for the investigation, would anyone have ever noticed?

~~~
skookumchuck
I doubt many would want to notice, as they are deeply invested in the school
system.

~~~
acjohnson55
What we're invested in is the idea that someone has found a magic bullet that
can ease our consciences of the deep injustice done to kids in poverty. The
semblance of success makes it possible to say, "well, I guess all those
failing schools are failing because they're not doing what Ballou is".

~~~
skookumchuck
Public schools are very good at the facade of success - graduation rates,
course descriptions, claims of excellence, glitzy buildings, education levels
of teachers, money spent, committee reports, etc. But any measurement of
educational results in students is relentlessly dismissed and attacked.

~~~
cinquemb
I think private schools use a lot of the same signals for success as public
schools, however their students are often shielded from the downsides due to
circumstances out of their control (their parents/family background), and
upsides amplified.

~~~
skookumchuck
Since parents are paying the tuition to private schools, the parents are in a
strong position to demand results. Having paying customers makes for a very
different dynamic.

~~~
cinquemb
> _results_

Have you ever met a private school student who came from a well off family and
their parents didn't demand "results" from them, and they still have a nice
life than most people?

Because the opposite is less likely to be true for those who didn't come from
a well off family, regardless of the "results".

These "results" increasingly are meaningless when most people are just prodded
through mindlessly to the next step and even more so when family member /
family friend was already going to give you a nice job anyways…

I guess it also doesn't help either when people increasingly conflate the
"results" with knowledge or education in of itself… at best they are mere
approximations, however from the article, i seriously doubt we're anywhere
near the the best…

------
wolfspider
These numbers are not really that different than many underserved communities
just this school’s spotlight in the media makes all of this seem shocking.
Also let’s just be real here about the reality of future prospects among most
people here in the U.S. but even more specifically the kids in the article-
many of them know it just doesn’t matter. Not so much that things are
desperate or hopeless but the goal at the end may not seem that great so they
opt to enjoy their lives in that moment. I’m afraid still this played out
scapegoating is the reason collectively everyone will look at a situation like
this and think “Well this is why we can’t find super high achieving versions
of these kids”. No, they exist and also there are plenty of other situations
worse than this and different groups of people involved as well. The solution
is actually really simple- stop pretending to be very inclusive while actually
being very exclusive. Demonstrate how education can lead to a fulfilling life
to these kids. Not speeches or abstract situations but real living examples,
people they grew up around, etc.. Really you can only tell yourself so much
that your “paving the road” to help people that come after you until the
realization sets in this will be as far they let me go and everyone like me
too. Just wait a few more years like this and we will see all sorts of people
“gaming” all sorts of “systems”.

------
pitaa
The real question here is what colleges are admitting kids that can't read or
write? Is affirmative action really so strong that these colleges accepted
every kid from a HS where the average SAT score is in the 16th percentile? Or
did the high school also help the kids fudge their applications?

~~~
tatersolid
Some community colleges (and even a few state colleges) in the USA are
required as part of their charters or funding to accept any student who
graduates high school in that area for at least one “trial” semester.

------
HaoZeke
This is crap. Here in India at least, attendance has nothing to do with
college admissions.

One can study better from home anyway. Also considering that it's a poor
school, the teachers are surely not that great either.

This is a puff piece. If the teachers taught better, students would come. This
just shows how broken the system of failing due to low attendance is. These
kids obviously worked hard in spite of school and that should be celebrated,
not investegated.

The teacher's attitude is weird to say the least.

Good kids but didn't deserve to walk across that stage?

The teacher ought to be sacked.

~~~
notyourday
American school system is absolutely bizarre. I'm from across the pond - I
probably cut 80% of classes in my last year of school ( I ended up
transferring to a magnet school in 4th grade ). Most of my "will likely
succeed" peers cut between 20% to 40% of the classes that year.

Our teachers did not care what so ever: you had to be in for the tests, there
were no make up days, your grade was your grade which was an average of all
tests given. Age classes were split into sections based on performance. If you
were in 5A, you probably did better than you were in 5B and you were
definitely miles ahead of 5D. At the end of the every year there was a
reshuffling between the letters based on previous year results. No one,
absolutely no one, wanted to go down a grade.

If your grade was higher than the minimum, you got to take the final test
before graduation. Achieving the minimum score on it allowed you to graduate.
If you did not get there, you did not get to do it which meant another year of
school. That was in _all_ test subjects: literature, math, geography,
chemistry, physics, biology, foreign language (addition only in our class).
There was no curve. Hell, entire concept of a curve still baffles me.

Results of the test: me - 2nd at 127% percent behind a girl who never cut a
single class at 129%. Our of a graduating class of 142, 140 were taking the
test, all 140 achieved the minimum 81% needed. All of people who cut classes
that I knew scored over 94%.

I did not realize how weird it was until I got to an American university.

------
taneq
Is there anyone who actually genuinely benefits from this theatre?

~~~
_rpd
> Playing by the game can have financial benefits. If an evaluation score is
> high enough to reach the "highly effective" status, teachers and
> administrators can receive $15,000 to $30,000 in bonuses.

Fraud can pay very well.

~~~
peterwwillis
If their base pay is just above the poverty level, not really.

There is not some mass of people out there clamoring to be teachers. The only
ones teaching are the ones who will submit themselves to humiliation and abuse
and work 80 hour weeks for the reward of barely reaching a middle class
existence. _Then_ they get told they will lose their job unless they pass
people they know they shouldn't, and are routinely told that tests that
students aced 10 years ago are so difficult the students can no longer pass.

I agree that teachers should not put up with the charade, but it's totally
unfair to put teachers' livelihoods at risk just because parents refuse to
accept any responsibility and administrators cow down to political pressure.

~~~
acjohnson55
I think it's unfair to blame the parents, en masse. Of course there are some
crappy parents. But in many cases, they are just yesterday's underserved
children, born into a situation where the prospects of escape are extremely
slim. The cycle thus continues to their children.

If we actually care about today's children, we have to acknowledge the reality
that not every parent is fully equipped to help their kids succeed and commit
to trying to intervene _this generation_ , to hopefully help many future
generations of children.

As a teacher in Baltimore, I met parents and guardians of just about every
stripe you can imagine. Almost every one of them _wanted_ the best for their
kids. A lot of them lacked the savvy, wealth and social capital to navigate a
better path for their kids.

~~~
peterwwillis
I blame the parents, even when they aren't directly to blame, when they abuse
teachers and administrators for not passing their obviously unqualified child.
Parents don't seem to care if their child learns as much as whether they can
leave the school system.

Really though, the politicians are exacerbating the problems. Not only do they
abandon communities in need, they cut education funding across the board, and
then put price tags on the schools - pass students in my district or we cut
the money even more. Meanwhile, they spend more on the military and kick the
can down the road.

~~~
acjohnson55
I never once had pressure from a parent of a failing student. The only time I
was pressured by a parent was from one of my more well adjusted students. The
"what can we do to make this B an A type thing". Most of the parents I had put
a frightening amount of faith in me to open opportunities for their kid and
trusted my judgment.

I also went out of my way (as is typical in impoverished schools) to let them
know as early as possible if their kid was falling behind. As the teacher,
it's on you to figure out how to make time to try to coach kids back on track.
It's unbelievably overwhelmed to try to do this for a couple dozen kids at a
time, each with unique failure patterns to address.

The pressure comes from administration, whose asses are on the line to have
good looking metrics.

------
platz
> Many teachers we spoke to say they were encouraged to also follow another
> policy: give absent or struggling students a 50 percent on assignments they
> missed or didn't complete, instead of a zero. The argument was, if the
> student tried to make up the missed work or failed, it would most likely be
> impossible to pass with a zero on the books.

It sounds like the grading system is broken.

Does a zero do the thing that we want it to do?

Could there be a different metric, that doesn't weight a zero in a way that
knocks students out like in an elimination tournament? What are the goals of
grades? It seems like they are structured to rank students in a competition.
That's great for the winners. But what do you do with the loosers?

------
mathattack
The line I abhor is this...

 _" It is expected that our students will be here every day," said Jane
Spence, chief of secondary schools at D.C. Public Schools. "But we also know
that students learn material in lots of different ways. So we've started to
recognize that students can have mastered material even if they're not sitting
in a physical space."_

This is typical of the heads of failing schools. Yes, our kids can’t pass
state exams. Yes, our parental survey complain of bullying. Yes our teachers
complain in surveys about school leadership. But you’re just not measuring the
learning that’s happening here.

~~~
gowld
That particalur quote is just saying that they don't uphold the commonly seen
philosophy (creditted to NCLB and friends' funding requirements) of
automatically failing kids who can't get to school almost every day.

~~~
mathattack
Right. But it's worded very slippery. And per the rest of the article, most of
the kids really aren't learning.

------
scarface74
while this may be extreme, don't think that the same types of things don't
happen in more affluent schools \- special projects, make up work, multiple
times to take a test, parents and administrators pressuring teachers, etc.

The only thing I haven't seen in the more affluent schools is the tolerance
for unexecused absenses and tardiness.

