

Open letter to FB from protest leaders in macedonia. - Gabriel_Martin
http://protestira.me/?p=273
Open Letter to Facebook<p>Re: Protests against Policy Brutality in Macedonia (June 2011)<p>Dear Facebook,<p>We are writing to express our concern over the swift deletion policy that has been imposed on the facebook pages and events that we as participants in a protest against policy brutality in Macedonia are currently dealing with. We have been made aware by the press secretary for the Ministry of Interior that their administrators are responsible for reporting the groups for calls for violence and hate speech, but considering that we know the content of those pages and deny the allegations made by press secretary Kotevski, we wonder how your administrators confirm those allegations before you delete the pages. Do you confirm them at all?<p>The systematic deletion especially of events that bring people together in peaceful protests adds significantly to the climate of fear created by those we are protesting against, so we felt compelled to explain a few things which we hope you will take into consideration next time you receive a request from the Macedonian Ministry of Interior to kill one of our events or pages. We will try to explain in brief the background of the protests, as well as the nature of the protests with the hope that someone out there will realize how detrimental your policies are for our peaceful, non-violent cause.<p>Background:<p>In the early hours of June 6th, shortly after midnight, a 22-year-old boy was beaten to death on the main square in Skopje in front of hundreds of bystanders. Witnesses who were there believed that the perpetrator was a member of the special police forces, but found no evidence of it in the media the next morning. In fact, the only story that was published the next day by a Macedonian news agency merely reinstated what the Ministry of Interior had published in their morning brief: that a young man started feeling sick on the main square the night before and passed away shortly after.<p>The outraged witnesses and their friends called for a protest to demand more information. The first day was marked with confusion, as the boy’s identity had not been confirmed and no one was coming out with official statements, other than to say that they have no information on the case. Fortunately, enough people had come out on the streets that first day, in peaceful protest, to demand more information, so that more than 40 hours after the killing occurred, the police were left with no other choice than to admit it was one of their own who committed the crime.<p>The Protests:<p>The public outrage that followed the official confirmation from the Ministry of Interior helped the protest that occurred on the first day gain momentum. More people came out the next day and even more the next, culminating in a 5000 strong protest a few days later. We have now been walking and blocking the streets of Skopje for 11 days straight and have no intention of backing down until our demands are met. The protest has since turned into a massive protest against police brutality, marked above all by a peaceful, non-violent stance. Which brings us back to our original question: why are our pages and events being deleted? And why has no one in your camp bothered to check the facts before approving requests made by the Ministry of Interior – the same people we are protesting against? The Republic of Macedonia is by no means the best functioning democracy in the world, but we are a democracy nonetheless, and our people still have the right to peaceful protests. In these past 10 days police officers have been walking the city side by side with us, helping us exercise our constitutional rights. Our protests are not violent and we do not use hate speech, and yet our events and pages are still deleted. They are deleted after we have proven time and again that we CAN be peaceful, after various local and international news agencies have covered the protests, mostly in praise of the power of the people. Our protests have been legitimized by locals and foreigners alike, legitimized even by those we are protesting against, as evidenced by the fact that the Ministry of Interior has taken the time to respond (poorly, we have to add) to our demands.<p>If everyone has legitimized our protests, facebook, why haven’t you?<p>As a gesture of good will, we have decided to add descriptions in English to our events to make your decisions easier for you. We urge you also to get more informed on our protests (I have added a number of links from credible news sources that confirm what is stated in this letter) and demand that our pages and events are left intact from this moment onwards. I can additionally confirm that the administrators of our pages and events have been very thorough in dealing with any posts or comments that violate the code of non-violence adopted by the protesters, which is a practice that we will continue to employ. By doing so, we are compliant with the provisions from the contract in which we have entered with you as individual facebook users. If there are any violations that we are committing unaware, we would appreciate additional information on what these are and they will be addressed immediately. If not, then let us be and let us plan peaceful protests uninterrupted by those who are powerless on the ground and have been using you to do what they cannot.<p>Learn more:<p>Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/hundreds-protest-macedonian-beating-death/2011/06/07/AGwsJHLH_blog.html<p>Al Jazeera: http://stream.aljazeera.com/story/macedonia<p>Global Voices Online: http://globalvoicesonline.org/2011/06/06/macedonia-alleged-killing-of-young-man-by-policeman-sparks-protests/<p>More links in English and other languages: http://protestira.me/?page_id=236
======
Gabriel_Martin
Open Letter to Facebook Posted on June 16, 2011 by tanja

Re: Protests against Policy Brutality in Macedonia (June 2011)

Dear Facebook,

We are writing to express our concern over the swift deletion policy that has
been imposed on the facebook pages and events that we as participants in a
protest against policy brutality in Macedonia are currently dealing with. We
have been made aware by the press secretary for the Ministry of Interior that
their administrators are responsible for reporting the groups for calls for
violence and hate speech, but considering that we know the content of those
pages and deny the allegations made by press secretary Kotevski, we wonder how
your administrators confirm those allegations before you delete the pages. Do
you confirm them at all?

The systematic deletion especially of events that bring people together in
peaceful protests adds significantly to the climate of fear created by those
we are protesting against, so we felt compelled to explain a few things which
we hope you will take into consideration next time you receive a request from
the Macedonian Ministry of Interior to kill one of our events or pages. We
will try to explain in brief the background of the protests, as well as the
nature of the protests with the hope that someone out there will realize how
detrimental your policies are for our peaceful, non-violent cause.

Background:

In the early hours of June 6th, shortly after midnight, a 22-year-old boy was
beaten to death on the main square in Skopje in front of hundreds of
bystanders. Witnesses who were there believed that the perpetrator was a
member of the special police forces, but found no evidence of it in the media
the next morning. In fact, the only story that was published the next day by a
Macedonian news agency merely reinstated what the Ministry of Interior had
published in their morning brief: that a young man started feeling sick on the
main square the night before and passed away shortly after.

The outraged witnesses and their friends called for a protest to demand more
information. The first day was marked with confusion, as the boy’s identity
had not been confirmed and no one was coming out with official statements,
other than to say that they have no information on the case. Fortunately,
enough people had come out on the streets that first day, in peaceful protest,
to demand more information, so that more than 40 hours after the killing
occurred, the police were left with no other choice than to admit it was one
of their own who committed the crime.

The Protests:

The public outrage that followed the official confirmation from the Ministry
of Interior helped the protest that occurred on the first day gain momentum.
More people came out the next day and even more the next, culminating in a
5000 strong protest a few days later. We have now been walking and blocking
the streets of Skopje for 11 days straight and have no intention of backing
down until our demands are met. The protest has since turned into a massive
protest against police brutality, marked above all by a peaceful, non-violent
stance. Which brings us back to our original question: why are our pages and
events being deleted? And why has no one in your camp bothered to check the
facts before approving requests made by the Ministry of Interior – the same
people we are protesting against? The Republic of Macedonia is by no means the
best functioning democracy in the world, but we are a democracy nonetheless,
and our people still have the right to peaceful protests. In these past 10
days police officers have been walking the city side by side with us, helping
us exercise our constitutional rights. Our protests are not violent and we do
not use hate speech, and yet our events and pages are still deleted. They are
deleted after we have proven time and again that we CAN be peaceful, after
various local and international news agencies have covered the protests,
mostly in praise of the power of the people. Our protests have been
legitimized by locals and foreigners alike, legitimized even by those we are
protesting against, as evidenced by the fact that the Ministry of Interior has
taken the time to respond (poorly, we have to add) to our demands.

If everyone has legitimized our protests, facebook, why haven’t you?

As a gesture of good will, we have decided to add descriptions in English to
our events to make your decisions easier for you. We urge you also to get more
informed on our protests (I have added a number of links from credible news
sources that confirm what is stated in this letter) and demand that our pages
and events are left intact from this moment onwards. I can additionally
confirm that the administrators of our pages and events have been very
thorough in dealing with any posts or comments that violate the code of non-
violence adopted by the protesters, which is a practice that we will continue
to employ. By doing so, we are compliant with the provisions from the contract
in which we have entered with you as individual facebook users. If there are
any violations that we are committing unaware, we would appreciate additional
information on what these are and they will be addressed immediately. If not,
then let us be and let us plan peaceful protests uninterrupted by those who
are powerless on the ground and have been using you to do what they cannot.

Learn more:

Washington Post:
[http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/hundreds-p...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/hundreds-
protest-macedonian-beating-death/2011/06/07/AGwsJHLH_blog.html)

Al Jazeera: <http://stream.aljazeera.com/story/macedonia>

Global Voices Online: [http://globalvoicesonline.org/2011/06/06/macedonia-
alleged-k...](http://globalvoicesonline.org/2011/06/06/macedonia-alleged-
killing-of-young-man-by-policeman-sparks-protests/)

More links in English and other languages: <http://protestira.me/?page_id=236>

~~~
hugh3
OK, I'd like to hear the other side of the story now.

~~~
jimfl
You have. The other side of the story is that there is no story.

~~~
hugh3
No, I'd really like to hear why the page was taken down, if indeed it was.
Facebook doesn't make a habit of taking down pages at the request of minor
governments unless there's some reasoning behind it. Certainly not repeatedly.
So... I'm guessing there's something that these dudes aren't telling us.

What aren't these dudes telling us?

~~~
CodeMage
You're assuming Facebook is actively complying with the request of someone's
government here, minor or not. I'm betting there's a simpler explanation:
there's probably a fast-track mechanism for taking down pages; you request it
and it's done.

For example:
[http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/anyone_can_take_down_fa...](http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/anyone_can_take_down_facebook_pages_with_a_fake_email_address.php)

------
savramescu
This has been discussed before, I believe, back when someone notified Facebook
that a page violates copyrights. FB took down that page without checking for
facts and told the owner of the page that he has to resolve the issue with the
one that raised the complaint. Even if that would be the case now, how does
Facebook assumes that the protesters can settle with the Goverment of
Macedonia about the pages when they're still in the streets?

------
Ruudjah
One of the reasons why I have not visited Facebook since about a year now. I
do not want to hand over control of my life to some company feeling fit to do
with my data what they want at any time.

~~~
thurston
help me!

<http://www.complang.org/dsnp/>

------
Gabriel_Martin
Same Facebook, different day. Diaspora should have scaled better...

------
loup-vaillant
There's a limit to how much you can trust trusts. Political dissent is beyond
that point. Yet again, we have a demonstration of the need for something like
the FreedomBox. <http://freedomboxfoundation.org/>

------
aristus
FWIW, I've asked the poster for details which would allow us to investigate
what happened, eg which pages, events, and users were allegedly taken down. As
it stands there's not a whole lot to go on.

On a personal note, I'm astonished at how many people on this thread are
interpreting this in the worst possible light. My coworkers and I are not
superhuman.

------
paulnelligan
And this page is down ... Somehow I feel like we're entering the dark ages of
the internet when it comes to political dissent ...

------
antihero
Shit like this is why I'm making wire ;-)

~~~
vetler
Btw, I get 500 Internal Server Error on wire-bbs.org.

~~~
antihero
Ah, I broke some stuff making permissions more restrictive. Should be fine
now. Thanks :)

------
mrkva
The link doesn't work for me :(

~~~
qu4rk
which link?

~~~
qu4rk
protestira.me its been up and down all day today! try again later it worked
for me after a while !

maybe that website is experiencing some troubles like the facebook pages did
!?!

------
drivingmenuts
Facebook is a corporation and as such, is not required to give a damn about
anything happening in Macedonia.

~~~
CodeMage
That's so blindingly obvious that it makes one wonder about the motivation
behind posting it. My current assumption is sheer trollery, but I'll reply
anyway.

Yes, it's true that no laws were broken. The fact that Facebook is a
corporation doesn't make them exempt from moral and ethical expectations
people have. For example, if a large corporation finds a loophole in some law
and exploits it to detriment of a significant number of people, you would get
similar outcry from those people as we're getting from Macedonians right now.

In short, a blindingly obvious reply to a blindingly obvious statement: Just
because no law was broken, it doesn't make what Facebook did good or right.

~~~
drivingmenuts
And yet, people still complain about "how could they do this? oh, the
humanity!"

Which is obviously human nature. But no less annoying than my response.

So, do something about it being obvious. Advocate for a change. Instead of
yelling "how could they do this?!", yell "We will make them change the policy
and here's how and here's why!"

Then you've got something worth responding to in a public debate.

------
bxr
Unless this open letter gets a very significant amount of media coverage,
facebook isn't going to do jack to help any of their users out when the user's
government doesn't doesn't want facebook to. Facebook has become big enough
that they're scared of what rocking the boat, even the tiniest bit, will do to
their buisness opportunities.

------
iamdave
Wow.

People, I think it's time we collectively stopped this onlook of the middle
eastern spring as "those brave people" and started pressuring our "leaders" to
take a more proactive and progressive stance about their resources to do good
for those nations that deserve better.

With this letter the collective consciousness of middle eastern culture thats
looking for a better way of life just placed it's hand on the pulse of what is
for many people in America, THE way to communicate.

That was a powerful letter.

~~~
Iris
I'm sorry, I don't disagree with your point, but are you refering to Macedonia
as part of the Middle East?

It's in Europe, north of Greece, east of Italy and part of the Balcans.

