
Australia concluded China was behind hack on parliament, political parties - baylearn
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1W00VF
======
LIV2
One of our politicians has been caught taking money from a wealthy Chinese
business man and another is tied to the propaganda arm of the Chinese
government so you can guarantee there's a bunch more of our politicians owned
by them that we will never hear about

~~~
fps_doug
Source? If that were the case, what should I even be mad at first? China doing
the hacking or our "own people" (I'm not Australian but generally speaking)
betraying us? What would be so outrageous is that it's the politicians
themselves, not just some IT clerk with a shotty salary they managed to buy.

~~~
southerntofu
In a capitalist society, politics is all about buying/renting other people.
Don't think US/EU diplomats don't buy local politicians elsewhere.

Of course if the commercial negotiation fails, there's always "intelligence"
agencies and military to help overthrow that evil government that does not
want to sell out. Contrary to our western powers and Russia, China is not
doing that _just yet_.

Can't wait for a true democracy without middlemen selling our
resources/interests to other middlemen for private profits. The world would be
a much better place imo.

~~~
pentae
We have no proof that they are not already doing that especially with smaller
countries which they are influencing heavily with debt diplomacy for
infrastructure projects.

~~~
southerntofu
If chinese security services had assassinated democratically-elected
representatives like French/US services have DOZENS of times since WWII, i
assume we'd know. (Although they have militarily invaded a few areas such as
Tibet)

Investing in debt and huge infrastructure projects is indeed a more discreet
and stable way of getting a hold of a country than plainly invading it. It's a
form of economic colonization, but as much as i hate it it's orders of
magnitude less bloody than the self-proclaimed "civilizing mission" our
western countries are perpetuating to this day.

To be clear, i'm not a fan of the chinese regime, at all. Or any imperialist
regime for that matter. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of western
propaganda in regards to chinese activities. That is, i'm refusing to choose a
side in the next world war they're preparing.

No war between peoples, no peace between classes!

------
AlexCoventry
A relevant book: _Silent Invasion: China 's Influence in Australia_

[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36586726-silent-
invasion](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36586726-silent-invasion)

~~~
mytailorisrich
When people try to paint China as a dangerous expansionist country I just
point out that Australia was ruthlessly settled less than 200 years ago by the
British, and is under strong US influence.

~~~
BLKNSLVR
Does that actually work in distracting these people from the fact that China
is a dangerous expansionist country?

What you say is true, but there's not much we can do about anything that
happened 200 years ago. Preventing escalation into a war due to China claiming
ownership of busy shipping channels, for example, is something that is
probably worthwhile attempting now, rather than pointing to it with a cringe
in 2219.

~~~
amaccuish
Countries like Australia and the US act is if they're the fair enforcers for
the world, when in reality, they just want to defend the status quo that
benefits them. They act as if they have a god given right to occupy their
positions on the world stage when in reality they played far dirtier than
China to get where they are.

And if you're say Russia, even virtually surrounded by NATO, they're
constantly being accused of being expanionalist. And the same with China.

So I think it's totally OK to bring up history, because if we look at China's
rise compared with the rise of Western countries, we see that China's path to
supremacy has been far more peaceful.

~~~
jacques_chester
> _And if you 're say Russia, even virtually surrounded by NATO, they're
> constantly being accused of being expanionalist._

Russia invaded Ukraine.

~~~
zaphirplane
Obviously invading A country is a bad thing and Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen,
Grenada and Panama agree. However the Russians attacked to gain access to
crimea without which Russia’s navy would be enclosed. As NATO expanded and
surrounded Russian I’m 100% sure the question of would Russia do nothing while
NATO encircles was raised, someone played dumb. Of course in a fair world
Ukraine can choose to align itself with anyone and do as it choses with its
land.

In practice the powerful flex when they need

~~~
jacques_chester
"But everyone else does it" is playground morality.

------
missosoup
Every Australian needs to read Silent Invasion - China's influence in
Australia[1] and understand how deep CCP influence runs in every walk of life
here. We can't begin combatting the threat until a sufficient percentage of
the population understands exactly what the threat is and how it works.

[1] [https://www.booktopia.com.au/silent-invasion-clive-
hamilton/...](https://www.booktopia.com.au/silent-invasion-clive-
hamilton/book/9781743794807.html)

------
ngcc_hk
Today Hong Kong (look at Cathay) tmr well your country. To say otherwise you
are misguided.

HK is really in the frontline of the fight.

------
remotecool
It's always baffled me as to why Russia gets so much attention when it comes
to election hacking, when they have a fraction of the resources and economy as
China.

~~~
adventured
> when they have a fraction of the resources and economy as China

You answered your own baffle, it's right there.

You know why the US didn't suffer painful sanctions for its Iraq invasion and
debacle (which ~3/4+ of the world was overwhelmingly against)? Because the US-
allied world runs the world, mostly, and the US was the world's only
superpower both economically and militarily (throw in the global reserve
currency for good measure).

China carries an increasingly big stick and a very aggressive attitude that
it's their way or else (and they mean it). It's exactly the same reason Muslim
countries won't do anything to them or say almost anything to them about
Xinjiang; they're afraid of China and they know China does not respond to the
normal stimulus / protest that democratic, human-rights-based nations do.

So Russia has the authoritarian, no-human-rights disregard aspect that China
has, although to a slightly lesser extent (Putin's dictatorship is nowhere
near as powerful or enduring as the CPC party dictatorship). The problem for
Russia is that they're economically weak and backwards. They can be easily
pushed around and contained economically. Russia is also a regional military
power, China is about to be a global military power (certainly within ~20
years). What is Russia going to do, commit suicide by shutting off their
energy exports? Are they going to shut down all their vast factories (which
don't exist) and hammer the global economy? Are they going to lock down access
to their technology & science? Are they going to further restrict their vast
consumer market (which doesn't exist)? The best Russia can do is poke Europe
with energy, tamper occasionally with the Middle East, and mess with Ukraine.
Meanwhile China just went and annexed a country the size of France in Asia -
stealing vast territory from numerous other countries through military force -
in the South China Sea; nobody did anything to stop it or sanction China for
it. Nobody will do anything about it, either. China is in a position now where
they are able to play by different rules than everybody else, and there is
nothing that anybody can or will do about it. That is going to get worse yet,
their military power is nowhere close to peaking, so their projection and
aggression will only increase for decades yet.

~~~
geowwy

      > China does not respond to the normal stimulus / protest that democratic, human-rights based nations do.
    

I wonder how you see them as any different to the US? The US wasn't scrambling
to meet the demands of the Occupy Movement.

I guess there was the brutality of the Tiananmen Square Massacre, but
Tiananmen is the exception in the history of Chinese protests, just like the
Kent State Massacre was in the US.

~~~
jryle70
Information about Ken State Massacre is widely available [0] Can you show me
an online resource about Tiananmen Square Massacre, in Chinese, that is
accessible to Chinese audience?

If it is only an exception in Chinese history, why is it not being mentioned
anywhere, let alone discussed? You still don't see the difference?

[0] -
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings)

~~~
jogging_bobby
I think you'd be surprised to learn most Chinese know about the Tiananmen
Square protests. It's within living memory and the government has made
statements about it which can be found in archives etc.

Most Chinese don't want to talk about it because it's considered a source of
national shame. (Westerners often interpret that as them being afraid to talk,
but that's not actually true.) They also believe the events are used for
foreign propaganda which is not entirely untrue.

~~~
pimmen
So that’s why the CCP blocked all versions of Wikipedia in conjunction with
the 30 year anniversary? Because they didn’t want to bother people with shame?

In Germany people have a completely different perspective on the Holocaust. It
was horrible and a source of great national shame, but still, _never forget_.
Blocking Wikipedia on Holocaust remembrance day would not happen in Germany.

------
test1025
China is a threat to democracy

~~~
DeonPenny
yeh, see HK, taiwan, and japan

------
ratman
FILE PHOTO: A man holds a laptop computer as cyber code is projected on him

