
Ask HN: Courses/resources to improve my self-esteem and believe in myself more? - tinktank
I&#x27;ve been well aware I suffer from low self-esteem for many years and have worked with a therapist to try and address this but it&#x27;s obvious I&#x27;ve got as far as I can go with my current therapist. Before I just change therapists I&#x27;m looking for empirical evidence from HN readers that might have gone a different route that has yielded tangible (if personal) results.  Does anyone have anything to recommend?
======
thomk
Yes, I wish I could PM you.

I spent lots of time in front of therapists as well. What I got for it was an
education in how I got to be who I am today. My recommendation is to save your
money, watch School of Life videos
([https://www.theschooloflife.com/](https://www.theschooloflife.com/)) and you
can figure out why you are you. The short answer is; your upbringing, because
it's very hard to change that internal original programming.

The goal of therapy is 'know yourself'. So when you do eventually do 'know
yourself' therapy is not going to be much help; you have achieved the goal of
therapy.

(Side note: If you have had recent or unresolved trauma then 'yourself' has
changed, go back to therapy to locate the new you.)

Although I do not like the term AT ALL, it sounds like you know who you are;
you are a person with 'low self esteem'. I too, had "Low self esteem" as the
therapists put it. What they didn't say is "Ok here's what you do with that".

Here is what I heard: "Go volunteer. Give back. Help others.".

Bullshit. That is misguided advice. You end up acting charitable and feeling
used.

Or I hear "Go out, meet people."

Also, bad advice. I'm struggling and you are asking me to put social
interactions on top of that too? No.

A Zen Buddhist monk once told me something that I think is applicable to you.
"You can not directly control your emotions, they are too powerful, all you
can control is your behavior. Control your behavior long enough your emotions
will change."

That goes directly inline with the advice I'm about to give you, which is
simply this:

Be competent.

Focus your energy on directing your behavior on being absolutely competent in
one single area of your life and get mastery over it; absolute competence.

Once you feel like you have changed and have gained sufficient competency,
move to the next thing. Build yourself up brick by brick by your actions and
behavior.

It is much, much harder than just sitting talking to a therapist, but an order
of magnitude more effective.

~~~
playing_colours
Can you please elaborate more on being competent, and how ti is related to
controlling your behaviour? Do you mean, say, to fully focus on mastering
professional skills?

~~~
thomk
Not necessarily just professional skills, but all skills.

I am saying that confidence comes from being able to navigate the world with
skills you have learned and _not_ from dwelling on your history (alone or with
a therapist) long after you already understand it.

Your emotions are too powerful to control and you can't change the past.
Literally the only thing you can control is your behavior. What you
personally, actually physically do.

If you take that control and focus it on being competent; you will gain
confidence. You will trust yourself.

Meditation and therapy are good for introspection and knowing yourself. I have
had a ton of breakthroughs of self understanding with both of those. But it's
the times that I took action that made an actual tangible difference in my
life.

I am a competent singer (for instance). That did not come easy. I spent
hundreds of hours at karaoke sitting there my heart pounding waiting to get
called up in front of people I didn't know. I have been boo'd. I have been on
a stage when someone yelled YOU SUCK when my new girlfriend was there.

I kept going back and now, at the beginning of the night when everyone is far
too sober to sing, I sing 4-5 songs. I have absolute confidence that if there
is a microphone somewhere I will walk up to it and sing. Without music or
prompting. I love music and that was my driver, but it was the focus of my
__behavior __that lead me to being competent at singing. When I was single I
'd ask attractive women to go up and sing with me. It bonds you to sing with
someone, it feels great. I am not a great singer, but I'm more than good
enough for karaoke, which is all I care about.

Replace singing with communication, coding, negotiating, driving, cooking,
debating, talking to women, bidding on jobs, leading developers, writing, etc.

~~~
hisnameisjimmy
I have done this successfully with two things in my life: dating and
interviewing. There's some overlap, but I sucked at both. The only way I
realized I would ever get better in any reasonable amount of time was to do it
over and over and over again.

I will say, it is emotionally very difficult and painful, but leads to the
most rapid results.

Two major things happened to me from massive amounts of repetition: 1) I lost
my fear and could be my authentic self (which is maybe what confidence is) 2)
I really started to understand what 'good' and 'bad' were within the context
of whatever I was trying to improve.

I would add, if you decide to do something like this, make sure to take care
of yourself. Facing your fears like this, especially if you're doing it
aggressively, is stressful. Make sure to exercise or do something else that
allows you to blow off emotional steam.

~~~
atwork95
> lost my fear and could be my authentic self (which is maybe what confidence
> is)

can you share more about this? material you have read and steps you have taken
that helped you with your dating life and more specifically with being more
confidence.

~~~
hisnameisjimmy
The major step was deciding to do a ton of dating in a shorter period of time.
I would go on 3-4 dates a week. It's exhausting to do this, so I could only
manage this pace for a month or two before taking a few weeks off and trying
again.

What I found is that the repetition allows you to reframe the situation. I
started to no longer 'get my hopes up' or really anticipate the date, so that
I wouldn't have an agenda coming into it. Instead it was much more casual:
just get to know them and see if there's a good vibe or connection.

I want to point out that this is different than trying to sleep with a bunch
of women. I was really going for connection, and if you go on a lot of dates
you start being able to tell pretty quickly if there's a connection.

I really do think there's something to essentially 'brute forcing' your way to
getting better at something. Make it so your primary goal is learning and
getting better, and, remarkably, you will.

------
noncoml
Bodybuilding. Seriously. Go to the gym and lift heavy. Lift daily. Spend
1.30-2 hours daily lifting weights. Start with a trainer if you have never
done any competitive sports before. Fix your diet and eat a lot of protein.

I promise you that you will not recognize yourself in 6 months to a year. Both
physically and psychologically.

IMHO a lot of issues we face in our times are because of the lack of exercise.

~~~
someguy101010
Can not upvote this enough. It does get easier, but you have to do it every
day, that's the hard part, but it does get easier

~~~
pulkitpahwa
The initial days will be the toughest, it's only after a couple of weeks that
you will be waiting everyday for your gym time.

------
joncrane
This is going to sound like circular reasoning, but bear with me:

In order to raise self esteem, one must do esteemable things.

Volunteer, be kind, let people in in traffic, work out, do these things
consciously. You have to spend energy every day. Choose to spend it in
positive ways.

Note: the results are not instantaneous. Nor are they overpowering. It's
subtle, and you often only notice after things have been better for a while.
Sometimes, others in your life notice for you.

Try to stick with it for 90 days. Worst case scenario, you made the world a
little bit better for three months. Hard to lose.

~~~
matwood
I agree with everything you said. I would also add jiu-jitsu. Few things in
life can both take someone with too much ego and put it in check, and take
someone with a lack of self-esteem/confidence and give it to them. It's hard
to overstate the life lessons learned through training.

~~~
harimau777
I came to this thread to post about BJJ, found that someone already did!

Jiu-jitsu's actually not even my preferred martial art; however, for someone
looking to improve themselves I think its about the best there is for a couple
of reasons:

\- Since it's grappling, you can spar from pretty much day one with minimal
chance of injury (compare this with something like boxing where sparring means
getting punched in the face). In addition to the martial advantages, sparring
is a great way to build confidence.

\- Jiu-jitsu is very learnable. Virtually everyone who trains it seriously for
a few years becomes a formidable fighter.

\- You tend to meet people from many different backgrounds and walks of life.
Also, I've found BJJ practitioners to be very welcoming.

\- Since competition tends to be an important part of BJJ, there is sort of a
built in assumption that everyone is there to help each other become a badass.
Even if competition doesn't really interest you, I think that sort of
environment translates to people helping you become a more confident person.

\- There is a lot to learn and people are always innovating.

\- Since many other martial arts do not practice ground fighting, if you
eventually decide that some other style of martial art is the one that's right
for you, having trained BJJ will always be an asset.

Note: I mention becoming a good fighter or a "badass" because those terms are
easy to understand. I don't mean to suggest that you should become some sort
of macho, aggressive jerk. From what I've observed, even if someone starts
training the martial arts because "they have something to prove" as they get
more experienced it stops being about proving how tough they are.

~~~
matwood
Thanks for expanding :)

The badass part is interesting. Knowing that someone who knows more BJJ than
you will beat you, regardless of size and strength I think balances people
out. Also, aggressive jerks either self select out or get the aggressive jerk
beat out of them while learning. I haven't met an aggressive jerk yet whose
ego survives getting choked out by a 120# woman.

------
dpflan
Changing your perspective can be important here, and optimism can be useful to
nurture and uphold. Martin Seligman is a renowned psychologist researching
such topics, and his book _Learned Optimism_ [1] is illuminating. My father
introduced me to this book at point in my life where I was questioning my own
abilities and my own future. It helped me breakdown negative thought patterns.

I've also recently learned that Coursera has a _Foundations of Positive
Psychology Specialization_ [2] put on by UPenn (where Seligman is a professor)
-- it includes a course on Positive Psychology taught by Selgiman.

[1.] _Learned Optimism: How to Change Your Mind and Your Life_ \-
[https://www.amazon.com/Learned-Optimism-Change-Your-
Mind/dp/...](https://www.amazon.com/Learned-Optimism-Change-Your-
Mind/dp/1400078393)

[2.] Coursera Specialization:
[https://www.coursera.org/specializations/positivepsychology#...](https://www.coursera.org/specializations/positivepsychology#courses)

~~~
mettamage
While Martin Seligman didn't make it on my list in my comment. I read him as
well and IMO he's completely legit as a psychologist (way more legit than I
am, and I even published a paper on the neuroscience/psychology of gamer
frustration and engagement). He has studied the concept of learned
helplessness (a fascinating concept) and optimism itself.

Simply following his advice will make anyone's life more awesome.

~~~
dvsfish
I would love to read that paper of yours if you have it handy!

~~~
mettamage
Email me, this account is pseudo-anonymous.

------
sethammons
As a child of the 90's, I recall the self-esteem movement. All kids get a
ribbon. All kids participate. Tell all kids how good they are. I think the
movement missed the boat. The key word is "self" \-- it doesn't come from
others (though others might help you see it). Kids knew they sucked at a
sport; the ribbon didn't really do much.

To gain self esteem, you must accomplish things. The good news? You get to
pick the things. The hard part might be seeing what you've accomplished.

Lift weights and track progress. It is great to see the first time you lift
100, 200, and/or 300 pounds. Grow a garden. Raise a plant. Train a dog. Build
a website. Create something tangible. Create something intangible. Finish a
book. Have a fun conversation with someone. Help someone. Volunteer. There are
so many ways to impact your life or the lives of those around you. Take time
to notice the positive impact your actions have on yourself and others. And
know that you don't have to be perfect.

~~~
WalterBright
Related - respect isn't given. It's earned.

------
thom
Hi! Tell us a bit more about yourself, I bet there's loads of stuff that you
already _should_ feel great about but might be struggling to see. Given that
you were brave enough to post this under your real username I took the liberty
of browsing some of your comments and I don't know if this helps at all, but
you've got lots of things to be proud of. You're smart and well educated,
you're paid well in an interesting sounding job. You also have by far the most
interesting side hustle of anyone I've come across on here. On top of that you
have a nice way of interacting with people, you're generous with praise,
inquisitive, even handed and empathic. Kudos!

But, given all that and where you find yourself emotionally, I wonder if
you've perhaps made a bunch of choices you're not happy with, and now you're a
bit burnt out. Might I ask, what options do you have in your life right now?
How locked in do you feel to your current path?

------
_myles
Insecurity comes from you comparing yourself to others, which, in reality, is
silly once you've experienced/seen enough. Not to say it's easy to get past,
but there are ways to sort of clear that up. I mainly use sorts of meditation
and read quite a bit on religion, philosophy, and psychology.

I suffered from major depression most of my life until last summer when, after
trying to work out what was going on in my head, was able to essentially
remove what I thought I was going to live with the rest of my life. So it's
possible.

My advice to you, and anyone dealing with mental/emotional health issues, is
to analyze yourself. Ask yourself questions about yourself and the environment
around you. Follow your own intuition and curiosity, if you really want to get
better you will find your own way to do it; you just have to put in the effort
to do and look.

You can get better, but only you can do it for yourself.

------
riyadparvez
As someone who is also suffering from low self-esteem issues for long time
please see a therapist (not CBT therapy, I'd argue a lot of self-therapy books
philosophically are some variations of CBT techniques).

My self-esteem issues are the products of childhood abuse and trauma. I was in
denial about my trauma, but therapy helped me accept the reality and work on
treating the root cause, not the the symptomps. Your self-esteem issues might
not root from abuse. But it's a good idea to get help from a professional.
Otherwise you might be just treating the symptomps, not the disease itself.

~~~
fastball
The problem with "professionals" is that they are not incentivized to help you
fix root causes either.

~~~
riyadparvez
> The problem with "professionals" is that they are not incentivized to help
> you fix root causes either.

That's a big accusation against a community of people without any
corroborating evidence. Do you have anything to support your claim?

~~~
fastball
Where is the accusation?

------
supr_strudl
I’m currently reading Feeling Good
([https://www.amazon.com/dp/0380810336](https://www.amazon.com/dp/0380810336)).
It was recommended by someone here on HN. I’m half way through and I’d dare to
say it’s already changing my life for the better.

~~~
texasbigdata
I've read this and it changed my life. And I've bought a few copies for
people, and on one occasion had (what was at the time an acquaintance.....heck
lets not be opaque it was the bar back at my favorite bar) hug me and cry
saying the book helped him not be suicidal. That it changed his life and
brought him back from the brink while struggling with a crippling physical
disability that was emerging in his early 20s.

I've read a LOT of these books. And there's a few in CBT that are helpful
(including this one). There's DBT. There's practical self esteem work
(confidence is repeated domain specific success). There's some philosophical
work that helps. Lifting heavy weights helps. A blood test from privatemdlabs
where you can see everything inside you (if you can afford it) helps.
Nutrition helps. Sleep helps. Etc.

But feeling good, which has to be 20 to 30 years old, by far is the most
effective thing I've ever seen.

Pro tip: type up the excersizes (or google them) and try journaling them into
an evernote. The progress is 10x faster. 2 months of feeling good probably did
as much as a few years of weekly CBT counseling.

Strongly recommend.

------
sfsylvester
I'm currently in week 4 of the most popular course in Yale [0], but was made
available online on Coursera[1].

I think for the most part I've learnt I've learnt that much of what we think
about happiness is consistently shown not to work. And that many of our
expectations of what we think will make us happy, simply won't. If we want
genuine happiness, it takes an honest self-assessment of what we're doing,
what's stopping us from being happy and what would be the best way to map the
parts of our life we can control to actually make us happy.

Anyway, the course seems well respected and highly recommended [2]. But I hope
you're doing ok, and whatever you choose to do next, you find what you're
looking for. Best of luck.

[0] [https://www.inc.com/betsy-mikel/yale-let-anyone-take-its-
mos...](https://www.inc.com/betsy-mikel/yale-let-anyone-take-its-most-popular-
class-ever-for-free-heres-what-1-guy-learned-in-5-weeks.html)

[1] [https://www.coursera.org/learn/the-science-of-well-
being](https://www.coursera.org/learn/the-science-of-well-being)

[2]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19903628](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19903628)

~~~
mettamage
I wish I had the time to watch this. What are the biggest ideas that you've
learned?

------
thrwaway69
There is some good advice in the thread. I will add one point, apply yourself
more. Without engaging in a task and completing it, you won't feel confident
about it. You need engagement regularly to stimulate your worth. You might
also need others to acknowledge it which can be hard. I know I personally
stopped believing any praise or acknowledgement I was given irl. I didn't
compare myself to others per se but I was extremely stuck on the idea that
every attempt of mine should produce better results than the previous. _People
didn 't notice my critical flaws then how can they be good at praise._

As for any specific thing you could try, find something that is interesting to
you. Find a small internet community about it and engage. Learn from them and
tell them what you know. Build trust, then try to move it to offline meetup or
places. Someone you trust and idolize telling you how valuable you are as a
person is a great booster.

------
Ghjklov
I don't want to rain on the parade of everyone here recommending you to train
and lift weights, but I want to give just another piece of anecdata as someone
who has very low self-esteem.

It hasn't done it for me. I enjoy the benefits of being stronger and like
training and do it regularly now, but it actually hasn't made that much of an
impact on my actual self-esteem and how I choose to see things or how I live.
Am I just not ripped enough yet or are there still other issues (finances for
example) that I need to cover? My post is just to say that physical training
isn't a silver bullet, so it's good to take some more time to think deeply
about what is causing your low self-esteem. But hey, it's better to have low
self-esteem and huge muscles than low self-esteem with no muscles I guess. :)

------
vsareto
If you are happy with your current medications, try Vitamin D if you are in a
cloudy area or do not get out often.

If you're good on those things, try increasing your exercise level.
Walk/run/sprint or lifting. You can do body weight exercise at home if you do
not feel comfortable in a gym just yet.

If you are happy with your exercise level, pick up a new hobby, tech or
otherwise.

~~~
wigl
Not a physician but have heard from others that Vitamin D supplements are not
really helpful and just a routine insurance cash grab. In my experience,
bright lighting indoors had more of an effect but YMMV.

~~~
vsareto
The supplements are pretty cheap in grocery stores. If it doesn't work, you're
not out much. You can always change the lighting or try other things if it
doesn't work -- the key is to keep trying until something works for you.

It seems to work for me as we can have 5-7 days straight of cloudy skies where
I'm at. I spent the first two days without it and the next three with it and
there was a difference.

~~~
wigl
The Rx concentrations are higher and generally cholecalciferol instead of
ergocalciferol which is less absorbable and not as long-lasting. It’s fine to
try it out. What I’m casting doubt upon is the blood test of Vitamin D levels
and whether low levels are even an indicator of a problem. In my case I had
very very low blood levels of D and was prescribed supplements and sun
exposure. Years later, I found out I actually have a form of sun allergy. As
mentioned, YMMV.

------
songzme
I speak from personal experience and this may help or it may not. The one book
that boosted my self confidence and changed my life is 12 steps and 12
traditions: [https://www.amazon.com/Twelve-Steps-Traditions-
Alcoholics/dp...](https://www.amazon.com/Twelve-Steps-Traditions-
Alcoholics/dp/0916856011/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=12+steps+4th+edition&qid=1579462655&sr=8-2)

I read the book and reread it and work the 12 steps into my daily life. The
single best thing it did for me is that it made me a more honest person, to
others and myself. I no longer try to push myself to make deadlines. When
things starts sucking at work, I say it honestly. When I wronged someone, I am
quick to apologize. I no longer have the need to fulfill people's expectations
and since I have nothing to hide, I look into people's eyes during
conversations and I genuinely connect with people better.

I was introduced to this book during AA meetings (which I started going to
voluntarily to get the courage to say no to alcohol). The people who go to AA
meetings regularly because they choose to, are amazing people. Maybe going
there regularly will help you boost your self esteem, as it did mine.

FYI, most people have a hard time with step 2 and 3. If you are like me and
don't believe in God, it helps to redefine God. God could be nature, fate, an
apple, or whatever makes sense to you that seems like a recurring source of
comfort for you. For me, God is the innate goodness in people that makes them
want to do right by others.

Good luck.

------
sethammons
Thinking of talking to a therapist, I'm curious to hear what others have on
this interpretation (which I openly acknowledge as "could be wrong" and I've
never seen a therapist aside from once in couples counseling where they asked
if I was ever diagnosed with aspergers): you grow the feelings you feed.

What I mean is: when you dwell on things and focus on them in therapy, are you
feeding negative emotions or traits and growing them? Could seeing a therapist
make it worse?

------
dpflan
Have you noticed moments or sequences when you have not had low self-esteem?
For those times, what has been different? What sorts of situations increase
your self-esteem?

------
sakoht
Often when someone says they want more self-esteem, they want to stop feeling
bad. You have an ugly idea of who you are and think that replacing it with a
not-ugly version would be good. People try to solve the problem by building
themselves up, in practical ways in reality or in their minds. Then they chase
a bunch of external things in order to keep that esteem up when it seems to
work for a while.

If you get into a healthy space, though, you realize you will always feel a
little bad/good about circumstances, but your _core_ sense of "feeling good"
doesn't need to be connected to that stuff. It's actually not. Mostly, you can
shed the major part of depression, anxiety, and worrying about your "self" and
whether it is esteemed, just by changing how you breath, how your spine is
positioned, and a few other things that can be done pretty quickly. Quickly,
but lots of practice makes it a lot better.

I recommend taking the Inner Engineering program at ishafoundation.org. It is
basically meditation and "yoga", but there is not really the "exercise" thing
that people do in the US. I'm not into New Age things, or trying to have
"beliefs", and certainly not interested in following gurus or donating money
to anyone. I spent 4 days at their ashram and got a set of skills over a year
ago that makes everything in life easier. Nobody ever tried to sell me
anything afterward. I know 4 other people closely who have done it, and kept
with it for years afterward, and met a few dozen others from the class that I
keep up with. I know they have had classes in the Bay Area in the last year
too, if India is a bit far away. I walked out of the first day of class there
"in the zone" and spent a ton of time there afterward. It's really great.

------
sircastor
One thing I would recommend that you set obtainable goals, and do them. There
is a tremendous amount of power in the finishing things that you intend to do.

In the past I've started with big projects and struggled with my own
confidence because I haven't finished them. Making small goals and
accomplishing them really gives me an positive sense of self, and ability.

------
CodeWriter23
Do esteemable acts on a regular basis. Start with simple things like holding
the door for others or picking up what they drop. Let that evolve into an
attitude of service; what can I bring to this situation that is actually
helpful? Don’t seek recognition of any kind for such acts, the reward for
doing the right thing is doing the right thing.

------
SirensOfTitan
I think you may find Albert Ellis's work valuable (he founded the Rational
Emotive Behavioral Therapy process, a cousin of CBT). He discusses self-esteem
a lot in his work, particularly around the risks of both low self-esteem and
high self-esteem.

You may also find meditation helpful--particularly some kind of light noting
practice (perhaps not Mahasi-style noting, but Shinzen Young's Unified
Mindfulness/See Hear Feel technique). Deconstructing emotions and thoughts
into their constituent parts not only will allow you to see your patterns more
clearly, but breaking a complex emotion down also makes it more manageable to
deal with.

As with most habits, you'll get most out of what you're willing to do not only
during therapy sessions or formal meditation sits, but during every day life.

~~~
clarents
A related book that I found very helpful is Radical Acceptance by Tara Brach.
It introduced to me the idea of "self-compassion" which has been much more
beneficial to me than self-esteem, and has also discusses meditation as a way
to better understand one's self.

------
planxty
An excellent therapist is always a good thing to identify, but excersize can
definitely also have a massive impact on self esteem, energy levels, and mood
in general.

I found that strength training has radically changed my life, and I've
certainly plumbed the depths of profound depression and anxiety in my own
life. So far, nothing has come close to helping me as much as strength
training. Working out regularly gives me a way to care for myself, and I can
walk around knowing that I'm doing work that will have a lasting benefit for
all aspects of my life. It's a lot less about looking perfect or weighing some
ideal amount and more about caring for myself, and celebrating those small
victories in the gym as evidence of personal resilience and growth.

Excersize may not be the magic bullet for your situation, but the same
experience of caring for yourself might come from other experiences, like
volunteer work, studying a new skill or hobby, etc.

By the way, I've certainly let mediocre therapy go too long. Nothing wrong
with exploring other therapists, it's a deeply personal search, and needs also
change over time. Trust your instincts on whether you are receiving the right
care for you. The worst that can happen is that you try someone else and
realize you prefer your former therapist.

You are worth it! Best of luck.

~~~
xwowsersx
Same, don't know where I'd be without powerlifting/BB.

~~~
texasbigdata
Can you advise how to gently gain exposure with this world?

~~~
xwowsersx
Yes. Begin with a novice linear progression program such as Starting Strength
or StrongLifts 5x5
([https://stronglifts.com/5x5/#gref](https://stronglifts.com/5x5/#gref) even
has a nice Android/iOS app which will tell you everything to do).

These programs can be boring in the beginning because you are starting with
such light weights, but because you progress linearly (adding weight each
workout), the weight adds up quickly and the light weights in the beginning
gives you a chance to get comfortable with the movements. Watch videos on
YouTube of good techniques for squat, bench and deadlift (this is a
neverending pursuit though in my experience - I'm still working on perfecting
form 4 years in).

Do the linear progression program as long as you can to get the most out of
it...obviously you cannot keep increasing the weights each workout forever,
but run it as long as you can. In the beginning, since you are untrained, you
will make what they call "noobie gains" and get stronger every single workout.
When that stops working, you can run a program that is still linear, but where
progression is weekly rather than each workout. Then after that, you'll need
to do more research into the proper "periodization" you'll need in order to
continue to progress.

------
nick_urban
Exercise is an excellent way to build outer confidence and self-esteem. On the
inner level, I would recommend practicing compassion meditation, especially
self-compassion. Many of us have a belief that there is something wrong with
us, that we are deficient. If you can face this feeling in a gentle and self-
compassionate way, you can bring the emotion to the surface and release it.
Over time it subsides. This will also lead you to feel compassion for others.

You could start with something like this:

[https://www.tarabrach.com/meditation-the-rain-of-self-
compas...](https://www.tarabrach.com/meditation-the-rain-of-self-compassion/)

------
fancythat
I made this account only to answer you, since I have few insights that might
help you.

Following noncoml's advice on bodybuilding, there is a truth in that
direction: you need a challenges and victories to get out of your state.

Most enlightening reads on that subject are:

David Goggins - Can't hurt me Jocko Willink - Discipline equals freedom field
manual

The center point of your problem lies in a fact that you are measuring your
self in comparison to others, while the problem is within you - therefore, you
need to challenge yourself in many ways and overcome those challenges in order
to set yourself straight.

Warning - this is a journey not a shortcut.

~~~
clSTophEjUdRanu
Good. Now go do some burpees

------
throwaway3647
I had always quite good self esteem and confidence (this originates mosty from
encouragement and recogonition from parents) but I sometimes suffer through
periods where I lose it a little bit and maybe my observations can help you.

You didn't say on what kind issue you have exactly, so I can give you generall
advice.

IMO this might help you(if man): * test testosterone level * start lifting
(this feels like cheeting when it comes to confidence) * care about yourself *
take pride of your work, values, decisions, commitment * get more social * say
no, don't conform to others expectations, have FU money

------
gdubs
Have you considered meditating on a daily basis? There’s also mindfulness
Cognitive Behavorial Therapy, which sounds intriguing. In general, anecdote of
1, but I find that frequent, consistent meditation can have a very positive
effect. Mindfulness meditation can be a good starting point, but recently I’ve
found a lot of value in “emptiness” and compassion focused meditation. The
book, “A Profound Mind”, by the Dalai Lama was really good (for me). Eastern
philosophy has quite a lot to say about “self”, which might be helpful in your
case.

------
ergocoder
A good next step might be interacting with real people to get used to being
supported.

Some comments say volunteering. I disagree. Volunteering doesn't force you to
interact with people. It might not work for you.

Toastmasters, on the other hand, forces you to speak to others. Toastmasters
explicitly trains members to be supportive and forgiving and to approach you
to interact. Toastmasters is like a newbie environment that lets you build
your confident. I'd recommend you give it a try.

Also, an evening club is generally more relaxing than a day club. So, start
with that.

~~~
wenc
> Toastmasters, on the other hand, forces you to speak to others. Toastmasters
> explicitly trains members to be supportive and forgiving and to approach you
> to interact. Toastmasters is like a newbie environment that lets you build
> your confident.

I agree with this, with just one caveat: many people join Toastmasters with
the intention of getting better at public speaking -- and this intention needs
to be put in perspective.

How much you truly improve depends very much on the peers you have in your
local Toastmasters chapter. The reason for this is because in the
Toastmaster's setup, there's very little solid, bespoke instruction on
technique (at least at the chapter I attended), and most of the feedback you
get are from peers (who are themselves on a journey and have not received any
instruction) workshopping your pieces.

Like you say, most Toastmasters communities are often very supportive and
encouraging, so if you have latent public speaking skills that just need to be
unlocked by means of external validation, Toastmasters will do that for you.

In my case however, I had no baseline skills at all, so I benefited much more
from actual instruction and tough love critique (which I got from a place like
Second City in Chicago). I was not only taught technique but also fundamental
skills on how to structure a story for emotional connection. My confidence
grew from my own perception of improved competence rather than from
encouragement from others. I personally believe the confidence one gains from
competence to be more valuable than mere encouragement, because it obviates
the need for one to seek external validation. YMMV.

~~~
qfarhan
Which class as second city did you attend? Do you have ideas about their
different programs for adults? Thanks.

~~~
wenc
Most adult evening classes are open to the general public, and many dedicated
aspiring artists actually take the same classes. Even so, the atmosphere is
very safe (not at all intimidating, even for non artists like me), and
beginners are welcome. It’s non-auditioned so you don’t have to worry about
that. There are auditioned programs which are tougher to get into (I believe
people like Stephen Colbert and Tina Fey were graduates of these programs) but
the general classes are accessible to all.

There are dedicated public speaking classes, but the class I found most useful
was “storytelling” (oral). It wasn’t hard per se but it does push one out of
one’s comfort zone a little (not in a bad way), and for me, I could actually
see the improvements in myself. (Bearing in mind I was starting from a low
baseline)

------
brucefromindia
I also had the same issue and hitting the gym helped me a lot. Dont worry
about any other variables in the beginning. Just keep showing up. I read a
beautiful answer which sheds some light on the same thing.
[https://qr.ae/TUhWqE](https://qr.ae/TUhWqE) Start small and keep building on
it. Make compound interest work for you. All the best :)

------
2snakes
I do not think placing self-esteem as subordinate to your finite mind, body,
and ego is wise. For me, universalizing human experience and studying and
concentrating on the Atman has been useful. Keep a positive attitude by
remembering we’re all god-in-the-making and this self continues to be
projected and manifested and always remember self-surrender.

------
rubenabergel
Checkout this YouTube channel called Social Animal, it’s basically about that
through interacting with people, very interesting and unique perspective:
[https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsMcTtQH_YWD-
qBgy3vY9JQ](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsMcTtQH_YWD-qBgy3vY9JQ)

------
amelius
Perhaps related, but I'd be interested in resources that can help me
appreciate/love myself more, since I've recently found out that subconscious
self-hatred could very well be at the root of a lot of problems I've been
dealing with, including anxiety. Many thanks in advance for any pointers.

------
yashvanth
Everybody suffers from low self-esteem at some or the other point of life.
Recognize what skills you think you lack and work on them and eventually
you'll pick other skills along the way. To start off with this, you've got to
be optimistic even in the worst of situations.

This worked wonders for me!

------
dvfjsdhgfv
I started to follow Tibetan Buddhist teaching, where high and low self-esteem
are treated in the same way, as a manifestation of pride, which is considered
one of the 5 main emotions. Once you go deeper, your low self-esteem is gone.
There are very practical methods for that.

------
sjg007
There’s a book called 10 days to self esteem by dr David burns. Try that or
CBT or his team based therapy model. If you are a developer or coder, work
through hacker rank problem sets too. Also expand your social network and see
friends and family. Make it a routine.

------
blaufast
The book “6 Pillars of Self Esteem” is excellent. It’s research based and
actionable.

~~~
texasbigdata
I've read this a few times. Agree it's good. But....its from 1994 and it
really doesnt feel research based. Its also highly counterintuitive in its
approach. And at least for me it took a few weeks to work through the first
time due to the required work.

His work is a great resource but glancing at this thread theres a few other
things that might have higher ROI. At the same time, if you're not
substituting with something else, this book is world better than not reading
anything.

------
aantix
Life lessons from clinical psychologist Jordan Peterson.
[https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQZmtHjTgPB-
NMBr1QmN0...](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQZmtHjTgPB-
NMBr1QmN0AEzXqmuypcO6)

Edit: Why the downvotes? His lessons surrounding common issues in life that
he's seen in therapy sessions are authentic and incredibly helpful.

~~~
mettamage
Hmm... I like Jordan Peterson, but not regarding self-esteem. I simply like
the advice of "make something of your life". In my opinion, he's too
conservative and Christian to relate to me on how to get more self-esteem.

I also think Jordan Peterson is a tough person to understand. The reason for
that is: (1) sometimes he has a science-based psychological discussion (e.g.
Big 5) and (2) sometimes he talks about Freud and is a lot more into
metaphore/language stuff that isn't science-based and IMO philosophical at
best.

~~~
texasbigdata
Am I the only one that like just didnt fully grasp his system? It came to
highly recommended from a few credible friends, and some portions like taking
care of yourself or helping yourself like you would help a friend were great,
but it's super difficult to a) summarize his "method" / "system" and b)
implement it or share it with a friend in a way that's helpful.

~~~
mettamage
IMO, he is tricky to listen to and get right. Therefore, you need to be
ruthless about cherry picking the advice that you believe will work for you.

I mostly find him interesting because whenever I agree (a lot) or disagree
strongly (also a lot) with him, he is quite articulate about it. He is one of
the people that keeps me out of my filter bubble. Second, his fuzzy/Jungian
side in psychology is fascinating. In my psych degree we were only scientific,
but if you let that go then you can go much deeper! Just because something is
subjective doesn’t mean the information should be disregarded right away, you
just need to understand the limitations and dangers of subjectivitt. I use
that psychological side of him to think more philosophically about humans and
to compare it to my own experiences and scientific literature.

My advice for my 20 year old self would be to avoid him other than his clip on
DMT, his IQ + personality lectures that have statistical underpinning and
“make something of yourself”

In short: if you don’t get him, feel free to ignore him. If you eant to watch
Mathieu Ricard his TED Talks. He is a Buddhist monk and used to do research as
a postdoc in molecular science.

------
pgcj_poster
I suppose that you first need to identify what's causing your self-esteem
issues. I've had a problem with always looking at "the big picture," and
consequently, seeing how little of a difference I ultimately make.

I'd recommend reading _The Conquest of Happiness_ by Bertrand Russel [1]. Some
great excerpts:

> When I was a boy I knew a man bursting with happiness whose business was
> digging wells. He was of enormous height and of incredible muscles; he could
> neither read nor write, and when in the year 1885 he got a vote for
> Parliament, he learnt for the first time that such an institution existed.
> His happiness did not depend upon intellectual sources; it was not based
> upon belief in natural law, or the perfectibility of the species, or the
> public ownership of public utilities, or the ultimate triumph of the Seventh
> Day Adventists, or any of the other creeds which intellectuals consider
> necessary to their enjoyment of life. It was based upon physical vigor, a
> sufficiency of work, and the overcoming of not insuperable obstacles in the
> shape of rock. The happiness of my gardener is of the same species; he wages
> a perennial war against rabbits, of which he speaks exactly as Scotland Yard
> speaks of Bolsheviks. […]

> But, you will say, these simple delights are not open to superior people
> like ourselves. What joy can we experience in waging war on such puny
> creatures as rabbits? The argument, to my mind, is a poor one. A rabbit is
> very much larger than a yellow fever bacillus, and yet a superior person can
> find happiness in making war upon the latter. Pleasures exactly similar to
> those of my gardener so far as their emotional content is concerned are open
> to the most highly educated people. […]

> To all the talented young men who wander about feeling that there is nothing
> in the world for them to do, I should say: “Give up trying to write, and,
> instead, try not to write. Go out into the world; become a pirate, a king in
> Borneo, a laborer in Soviet Russia; give yourself an existence in which the
> satisfaction of elementary physical needs will occupy almost all your
> energies.”

Now, you probably don't want to go _that_ far. But the point is: your life
doesn't have to be grand or world-changing in order for you to be happy. You
probably won't end up in the history books, but there's still a lot of cool
things you can do before you die. You probably won't be the next Charlotte
Brontë, but maybe you can write one book. You probably won't be the next
Florence Nightingale, but maybe you can donate to the Against Malaria
Foundation and save a dozen lives.

[1]:
[https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.222834](https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.222834)

------
spikepuppet
This is something i can relate to in a big way. For me, the two things that
helped are Bodybuilding and Boxing. While both have been mentioned here
already, i honestly can't overstate how good both of them are in building up
your self esteem and belief in yourself.

Bodybuilding is amazing because you literally get to watch this visible
transformation happening in front of your eyes. You see the weight climb, you
feel parts of your body grow and strengthen, you feel better and better each
day. It's an amazing thing.

Boxing too works wonders because it really teaches you to rely on yourself and
to think on the fly. You learn to think fast, adapt, rely on your training and
to always be looking for an opening. It works wonders on your mental state and
physical fitness (just be careful which gym's you go to).

TL;DR, do both, or any of the number of awesome choices people have
recommended like BJJ, or any other competitive sport. You'll notice the change
and thank yourself for it.

------
chrisaycock
I loved this MOOC, which covers a lot of the research on happiness:

[https://www.coursera.org/learn/happiness](https://www.coursera.org/learn/happiness)

------
mettamage
Edit: sorry for the long comment, but my username is partially a result (the
metta part) for going through a period of having low self-esteem.

Tal-Ben Shahar Positive Psychology [1], it's a Harvard course and self-esteem
is one of the lectures. It's old, but the big ideas that changed my life are
there.

So based on that course you'll want to learn about meditation. I've got the
right book for you from a Google engineer who made sure most of it was
evidence-based [2].

Obviously you'll also realize because of the course you want to pickup aerobic
exercise.

David Burns is my favorite psychologist (I read Intimate Connections from him,
his claim to fame is Feeling Good). He has an answer to your question, which
is Ten Days to Self Esteem [3]. Though, when I read the reviews you might just
want to get one of his other books. I'm a fan of Intimate Connections, other
people are fan of Feeling Good. You'll definitely learn a lot about cognitive
behavioral therapy. CBT changed my life.

And what the heck, not sure if this counts towards your question, but it's at
least related to it and good for the soul. Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor
Frankl [4]. What's interesting about his book regarding self-esteem is that he
basically invents half the field of positive psychology 50 to 60 years before
it even exists. Also, it's just mandatory reading for any human being IMO, but
that's again IMO.

Then, some personal advice that I've seen to work.

You need to be brutally rational and empirical about self-esteem. I know one
programmer friend and I noticed that he wasn't able to do that. What I noticed
was the following: HE DIDN'T TEST HIS ASSUMPTIONS! Yes, that warrants a caps
because I told this to him every single time and it didn't get through to him.
So, do find your assumptions and do some experiments.

Some experiments I have done in the past:

1\. People are mean. Experiment: walk up to 10 people and say hi and see what
happens. Result: people say hi back, and the pressure of not saying anything
sometimes caused a conversation to happen which was fairly pleasant. In other
cases it was awkward. In conclusion: people were never mean.

2\. Stating to a woman that you want to kiss her doesn't work. Instead you
have to make the move. Experiment: when I feel I have a bond with a woman [a]
and I want to kiss her, then state it _politely_ and leave it at that, repeat
every 2 hours (if you still feel that way and have been fully platonic
otherwise). Results: to my surprise, _every_ woman kissed me. Heck, some just
kissed me out of curiosity despite feeling no attraction to me. Weirder still,
one of those curious kisses was one of the best kisses we both had in our
lives. Note: I didn't ask any random woman on the street to kiss me. If the
constraints of [a] weren't satisfied, I'd feel too unsafe to kiss her, and in
almost all cases wouldn't even want to kiss her.

[a] Minimally 3 hours of _intense_ talking about life, ourselves, our
families, hopes, ambitions, the works, preferably 6 hours. This excludes
having fun. Without getting a feel about someone and without feeling a strong
connection, kissing feels a bit too dangerous for me to do. Since I had low
self-esteem I wanted to feel safe.

3\. I am not attractive. Experiment: go up to 30 people for which you want to
be attractive to and give them a survey. Ask them at least: from a scale of 1
to 10 how attractive you are, and from a scale of 1 to 10 how attractive you
could potentially be and what you'd need to change and why it would make you
more attractive. While I didn't do this experiment, I have had enough feedback
about my attractiveness. Long story short: I think I'm not that good looking
(I have a scar on my face since birth). But most people that I want to be
attractive to find me actually quite attractive. I've also been called ugly
enough times, so ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯. I think a strong moderating variable is whether
you simply click with the other person in that moment.

What I've learned by experimenting: my assumptions and ideas about social
interactions and dynamics are terrible. Sometimes I was right, most of the
time I was quite to horribly wrong.

Other advice I want to give:

(1)

Self-esteem / confidence is knowing about understanding what you are afraid of
and then understanding what success looks like, a successful failure case
looks like and a horrifying failure case looks like. When I learned to ski
this was crystal clear.

Successful case: I am able to turn, break and go straight.

Successful failure case: I am about to ski of a cliff, but I am capable of
falling right now to break. I know that by falling it won't really hurt that
much and I won't injure myself.

Horrifying failure case: (I had this one as a kid) you ski towards the ski
lift and while at full speed you realize that you're going to slam into the
ski lift row and you can't break (and can't realize that falling was a good
option). Helloooo hospital, how are you? :D

Pick the topic and map out these 3 cases and try to find ways to make
horrifying failure cases into successful failure cases. In the skiing example:
if I just fell down before slamming into the ski lift row, I would not have
gone to the hospital. Back then I didn't know that falling was relatively
painless.

(2)

My self-esteem issue had to do with romantic relationships. What I learned was
that if I was capable of giving me self love and didn't need a relationship,
but see a relationship as the cherry on top, then life is awesome! And it was.
One attitude that really helped with that was: treating life as playful and as
positively as possible. I got all my relationships where I realized that I'd
like one, but I didn't need one and I didn't crave for it. I learned how to
kill the craving (thanks meditation).

So yea, hope this helps.

[1] I found a link:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8qpn6kNfPc&list=PLF6A3AC0B7...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8qpn6kNfPc&list=PLF6A3AC0B711AEF28)

[2] [https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12921211-search-
inside-y...](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12921211-search-inside-
yourself)

[3]
[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/19295.Ten_Days_to_Self_E...](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/19295.Ten_Days_to_Self_Esteem)

[4]
[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4069.Man_s_Search_for_Me...](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4069.Man_s_Search_for_Meaning?from_search=true&qid=G2do38dJfg&rank=3)

~~~
yesenadam
If you learn more about Frankl you may not be so impressed! The truth about
him is pretty horrifying. See my recent comment and replies here
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21901602](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21901602)

~~~
mettamage
Oh dear, I am definitely interested!

------
fffff1
Hi,

I think we are wired to create social stories about things that happen. Find
new ways of being social, feeling connection, getting praise. To overrule your
current mindset.

Also, have you checked out EMDR? Best of luck!

------
naveen99
My mom recommended this:
[https://youtu.be/6LEJWeVmOXw](https://youtu.be/6LEJWeVmOXw) Bk Shivani. It
helped me.

------
hatmatrix
Self-esteem can come from empowerment. Becoming good at something is
empowering.

So instead of self-help books I would recommend books/videos on a hobby you
want to become better at.

------
voisin
Full Catastrophe Living by Jon Kabat-Zinn. There’s an 8 week mindfulness
program - free! - that you can do at home and will help with your feelings.

------
auston
Generally speaking: I really liked “The obstacle is the way”.

But I have a question: is there any particular part of your life you notice
especially low self-esteem?

~~~
texasbigdata
And the accompanying daily reader which is fantastic. But it's a very slow
process going through stoicism if you're currently struggling and suffering
more acute symptoms in my opinion.

------
whiddershins
I think, from direct personal experience, you might get the best results from
really focusing on making yourself better, and this will to some extent make
you feel better.

Develop skills to a new level, really figure out if you live according to an
ethical system you believe in, keep seeing how much you can accomplish in the
direction of goals YOU find meaningful.

Again from personal experience you could try reading a bunch of Jordan
Peterson, and maybe try his self authoring course.

His insight in to these topics has been very helpful to me.

I also have gotten a metric ton of great results from exercise. Either lifting
weights and/or a skill based exercise (like martial arts or whatever) in these
domains you get the mental health benefits of exercise, and the psychological
benefits of measurable increase in capacity over time.

I also have gotten amazing results from meditating, specifically the Waking Up
app by Sam Harris, which has helped me see my thoughts a little more
dispassionately, so I can start to see how they affect me.

I have gotten good insight from the work of Scott Adams, I think it was “how
to fail at almost everything and still win big” which presents his moist robot
framing for how to help yourself feel differently.

Also 7 Habits of Highly Effective people by I think Steven Covey.

Also How to Win Friends and Influence People which is an old and amazing book
that reframe interpersonal interaction, which influenced my self esteem
dramatically.

Feel free to message me directly if you want more tailored opinions to your
situation.

------
toohotatopic
Why not go with low self esteem? Not trusting yourself should boost your
motivation to be right. Depending on your goals in life, that could be useful.

Have you checked if it's you and not your environment? Maybe you can improve
your life by working with and spending time with people who don't put you
down?

------
sneak
I also wish I could DM you - get in touch if you would like to chat about it.

------
dantodor
[https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/anxiety-another-
name...](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/anxiety-another-name-
pain/202001/the-myth-self-esteem)

------
wolco
I would recommend the following:

[https://store.tonyrobbins.com/products/personal-
power](https://store.tonyrobbins.com/products/personal-power)

~~~
mettamage
Tony Robbins is not science-based. Some resources here are.

I think science-based resources are slightly better on average than things
like Tony Robbins. Simply because researchers tend to talk more moderate and
less hype, and there's a slightly higher likelihood of what they say is
actually true, in my opinion.

That said, one can always see something like Personal Power and take out the
inspiring bits and see what works for you.

------
carapace
General advice:

See more _different_ therapists until you find one that works well for you. A
good therapist in 2020 should be able to fix you up in a few sessions _if they
're right for you_. Don't be afraid to explore weird things, who cares if it
doesn't make sense if it works for you? "soul retrieval", "past life
regression", etc...

\- - - -

I can't give you specific advice over the Internet, but here's my personal
recommendation based on my own experience: Neurolinguistic Programming.

Unfortunately, it's panned as pseudo-scientific, and many of its promoters and
practitioners don't do much to help with that. However, from my POV, based on
my understanding and experience, it's the only really rigorous psychological
science.

For example, they developed early on an algorithm called "Five-minute Phobia
Cure" (because it takes about five minutes and it cures phobias.)

I personally was cured of clinical depression in a single session of hypnosis
with one of the founders of NLP. He has produced a book for the mass market:
[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3803577-get-the-life-
you...](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3803577-get-the-life-you-want)

\- - - -

What ever "low self-esteem" is, it has specific physical patterns: feelings in
certain parts of your body that correspond to e.g. tensions in muscles and
fascia. You can "get at" your "low self-esteem" directly and physically
(without interpretation of it's "meaning" or "origin story" or any of that) by
various means of e.g. massage, relaxation, Rolfing, Feldenkrais, Reiki, etc...

Remove the physical basis for the subjective feelings and you "cure" your "low
self-esteem".

In the limit we have what W. Reich called "orgiastic potency", the natural and
healthy ability of the body to let orgasm flow throughout the whole body,
unimpeded by tensions and "blockages" ("character armor"). Reich claimed that
in a person who has full "orgiastic potency, neurosis is impossible to
maintain."

Feldenkrais also points out that, when the soma (body) has become fully
integrated (proprioceptive is accurate, all unnecessary tension has been
relaxed) enlightenment occurs (he doesn't make a big deal out if it.)

\- - - -

(Honestly, I feel like a time-traveler from the future in re: therapy and
such. Like McCoy in the save-the-whales Star Trek movie... "Dr. gave me a pill
and I grew a new kidney!")

------
dasil003
There's a lot of good advice in this thread, some of it may apply to you and
some of it may not. One thing to keep in mind though: many accomplished, good-
hearted, and wonderful people have low self-esteem. Similarly, many horrible
sociopaths have high self-esteem. Self-esteem really says nothing about your
value as a human. Not to minimize your pain, but maybe that perspective can
help you find a path to feeling better.

------
mike128
Ayahuasca worked for me

------
rufflez
There are some good videos on YouTube- charisma on demand, Vanessa van
Edwards, school of life, Jordan Peterson

IMO, it can be difficult to overcome this all by yourself. Having someone in
your life who is willing to help goes a long way

------
faisal_w
Stoicism.

------
Wootah
I literally watched Jordan Peterson say self esteem doesn't exist.

