
Maillard reaction - firloop
https://www.seriouseats.com/2017/04/what-is-maillard-reaction-cooking-science.html
======
ogre_codes
Anyone who cooks Sous Vide knows the value of the Maillard reaction. You can
cook perfectly rare meat in the water bath, but the taste is mediocre. Hit
that steak with a torch, broil it briefly, or drop it on a piping hot cast
iron skillet and it turns into magic. We just did some ribs last night for
about 90 minutes in the sous vide and 4 minutes each side on the broiler and
they were amazing.

~~~
throwaway1777
I did sous vide steak for many years, but recently switched back to doing it
the old fashioned way: Sear both sides for 30-45 seconds and then throw in the
oven for several minutes at max heat (500F for me) until reaching the desired
internal temp. It’s so much faster and I find the taste at least as good. Sous
vide is still really interesting for certain things, but I don’t see the point
for steak anymore.

~~~
ReptileMan
Sous vide is wasted on ribeyes/filets. It is made for skirt - put the skirt
steak for 4 hours at 45C then 24H at 56C - and you have perfectly beefy meat
with nothing chewy. And juicy beyond comparison.

~~~
gruez
>Sous vide is wasted on ribeyes/filets

I do it just because I don't have to worry about doneness later - the inside
is already cooked, just sear it and it's done.

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deeg
My first introduction to the Maillard reaction was in "Cooking For Geeks",
which turned me on to cooking. It was no longer (just) a chore but a
science/chemistry experiment that ended up being tasty! I'm including the link
here because maybe it'll do the same for others.

[https://www.cookingforgeeks.com/](https://www.cookingforgeeks.com/)

(I am in no way associated with the book or author; just a fan.)

~~~
jpp
Thanks for the kind words! (I’m the author and also daily reader of Hacker
News, but generally just lurk.) Happy to answer any questions; email is
generally best.

~~~
julesallen
Nice work, Jeff. The chapter on eggs was literally a life changer. Or a
breakfast changer for sure.

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wolfi1
my favorite trick regarding the Maillard reaction: use baking soda to speed it
up [1] [1][https://blog.khymos.org/2012/06/04/maximizing-food-flavor-
by...](https://blog.khymos.org/2012/06/04/maximizing-food-flavor-by-speeding-
up-the-maillard-reaction/)

~~~
vosper
You can also bake baking soda to make it extra alkaline. It makes a big
difference for pretzels. There's not a huge difference between baked baking
soda and the traditional lye, IME.

~~~
anfractuosity
That's interesting re pretzels, not heard that before :) Do you have a recipe
you follow?

~~~
jihadjihad
This article is a good overview of the science, and includes a recipe:
[https://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/15/dining/15curious.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/15/dining/15curious.html)

~~~
anfractuosity
Thanks, that's really interesting, and about baking the bicarbonate too.

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sevencolors
Deeper dive on Serious Eats: [https://www.seriouseats.com/2017/04/what-is-
maillard-reactio...](https://www.seriouseats.com/2017/04/what-is-maillard-
reaction-cooking-science.html)

~~~
antonf
I really like The Food Lab book by one of Serious Eats authors, Kenji López-
Alt. It helped me to understand the purpose of different steps in recipes and
what is important about them. For example when recipe asked me to saute
something for X minutes until brown fond forms on the bottom of pan, I usually
continued after X minutes even if brown fond didn't form. It turned out what
the recipe actually asked is to create products of Maillard reaction, and it
was crucial for taste of final product while amount of minutes it would take
can vary depending on type of burner, pan, frequency of stirring, etc...

~~~
sevencolors
That book and Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat by Samin Nosrat are my go to when i want
to understand why something works :)

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joyj2nd
"The Maillard reaction is complex. So complex, in fact, that it's only in the
last few years that scientists have begun to figure out what it actually is.
While they still don't entirely understand it, they do know the basics"

Well, the Maillard reaction is actually well understood. There is also early
and late Maillard reaction products and not all products are necessary good
for you.

"The Maillard reaction is many small, simultaneous chemical reactions that
occur when proteins and sugars in and on your food are transformed by heat,
producing new flavors, aromas, and colors."

...when proteins and REDUCING sugars... Fixed that for you.

Maillard reaction also occurs in your eye, what is a bad thing in the long
run...

~~~
grok22
The author does mention reducing sugars later on:

"Instead, these proteins require "reducing sugars," which are essentially
simple sugars that attract amino acids at certain moisture and temperature
levels."

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karaterobot
Every time a cooking video mentions the Maillard reaction, mise en place,
fond, or setting aside some of the starchy pasta liquid, take a drink.

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anfractuosity
The maillard reaction is important in brewing too -
[https://beerandbrewing.com/dictionary/AVLhhy07n5/](https://beerandbrewing.com/dictionary/AVLhhy07n5/)

And not just in the malting/kilning process, but during decoction mashes and
boiling too.

[https://www.brewersjournal.ca/2017/05/18/science-malliard-
re...](https://www.brewersjournal.ca/2017/05/18/science-malliard-reaction/) is
interesting regarding this.

------
jonmagic
Sear in the rear (edited link) [https://amazingribs.com/more-technique-and-
science/more-cook...](https://amazingribs.com/more-technique-and-science/more-
cooking-science/cooking-temps-when-cook-hot-fast-when-cook-low-slow)

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aabeshou
this article was terribly written. totally meandering, unorganized, rambling.
I was desperately curious to understand it but it barely explained anything
and went around in circles, with gratuitous jokes that just served to further
delay the info.

~~~
dang
Is [https://modernistcuisine.com/mc/the-maillard-
reaction/](https://modernistcuisine.com/mc/the-maillard-reaction/) better?

~~~
aabeshou
thanks, that was interesting. i'm still curious about why maillard reacted
food is more nutritious/bioavailable, that article didn't seem to address
that. the OP may have but i got exhausted scrolling

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gelstudios
If there any fans of black garlic on HN, the Maillard reaction is responsible
for turning the sugars in garlic into that wonderful substance.

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asguy
Nice. More science/engineering-minded cooks should learn about this. A close
second is the Leidenfrost effect[1]; it's the secret to cooking eggs properly
without non-stick. Your omelettes will float on a bed of steam.

[1] -
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leidenfrost_effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leidenfrost_effect)

~~~
lukevp
If you use a carbon steel pan and season it properly, it’s just as nonstick as
a nonstick pan. We don’t use Teflon or any other coated pans because we have
birds and it can be lethal for them if a pan is overheated. 379+ degrees
sounds way too hot to cook eggs, especially scrambled or omelette.

~~~
korethr
I've heard this assertion before, that a cast-iron or carbon-steel pan can be
made just as non-stick as a teflon pan with a proper seasoning. I disagree,
based on my own experience.

I have some cast iron pans that I took the care to clean an polish smooth, and
season well, and they are seasoned better than most other cast iron or steel
skillets I've seen in other people's kitchens. It's smooth enough to cook eggs
on, _if_ I use sufficient cooking fat. And even then, even my cheap teflon-
coated pans are smoother, and can get away with using less cooking fat.

Yes, a steel or iron pan, well-seasoned, can be used for several tasks that
someone might think would require a teflon pan. But even then, there are some
things that are just plain easier on a teflon pan than they are on well-
seasoned iron or steel.

~~~
mikeyouse
Yeah this is my experience too - My carbon steel pan is fine for cooking eggs
if I put a dollop of butter in there - my nonstick pan is fine even without
the butter. I love the carbon steel for like 90% of my cooking, but if I'm
just making an egg or two the teflon is unbeatable.

~~~
lukevp
Do you honestly cook eggs without butter or at least some type of fat?

My carbon steel will stick certain things if I throw them in when the pan’s
not fully heated and completely dry, so I concede that point to you. I don’t
cook like this though and It’s not really a recommended cooking style in
general to start with a cold pan and no fat.

Woks are carbon steel and have eggs cooked on them all the time commercially
for fried rice and such.

~~~
mikeyouse
Nah I always have fat in the pan regardless, but it's more that there will
occasionally be something that causes egg to stick to the carbon pan which
requires a whole process to clean / reseason or whatever when I can just use
the teflon without a care in the world and save the carbon for steaks or
veggies.

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jeffrallen
GBD, baby. Golden, brown, and delicious.

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rezmason
Quacking is a mallard reaction.

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airstrike
AKA how to make your food taste great and get cancer in one fell swoop

~~~
ars
You are speaking of Acrylamide, it's unclear (from reading Wikipedia) if it's
actually a danger or not.

~~~
leetbulb
This is from the NIH: [https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-
prevention/risk/d...](https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-
prevention/risk/diet/cooked-meats-fact-sheet)

No mention of Acrylamide

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stimpson_j_cat
Why is this on Hacker News?

It's a great reaction and all, but I come here for news.

~~~
dang
HN is for anything that gratifies intellectual curiosity. Sometimes that's
news in the common sense of the word, but often it's more obscure things, and
those are welcome here.

I think of the "new" in the "news" in "hacker news" as being like the used
clothing store in my home town that used to be called "New 2 You".

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

~~~
stimpson_j_cat
Oh, I thought of it as "news" and was confused

