
Headspace vs. Calm: A Meditation-App Battle That’s Anything but Zen - yarapavan
https://www.wsj.com/articles/headspace-vs-calm-the-meditation-battle-thats-anything-but-zen-11544889606
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altairiumblue
Many of you are correct that you don't necessarily need an app and you
definitely don't need guidance after a point. But Headspace specifically has
been extremely helpful in teaching me how to approach meditation and how to
make a habit out of it.

For anyone who is just beginning I would definitely recommend going through
Take10, all the Basics packs and all the Pro packs in Headspace. In this order
the guidance gradually decreases and by the time you finish you will have
built a good routine and will be ready to switch to unguided meditation.

At the moment I use Oak - it's free but only available on iOS. It effectively
acts as a timer and tracker for my unguided meditation, nothing more.

I've tried Calm and I don't get appeal - the content, design, progression,
voices... everything seems strictly worse than Headspace or Oak.

~~~
mercer
Agreed! Headspace was what finally got me to consistently meditate, unlike the
other apps I've tried including Calm.

It could be a matter of taste though. The creator/'guide' of Headspace, Andy,
has a kind of British bloke-ey voice that I really prefer over the deep,
'spiritual' guide of other apps. Maybe that says more about my distaste of the
woo-hoo that is common in this field, but still. I've talked to people who
dislike Headspace because of Andy's voice though, so YMMV.

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meowzero
I've been using Headspace and the 10% Happier apps for about a year (I started
with Headspace, canceled subscription, and tried 10% later). I think they're
very helpful. They're especially helpful for beginners who want to try
meditation.

I'm reading some comments here and see some people mention how easy it's to
meditate. I'm wondering if they actually meditate or know what it is. Before I
started meditating, I too had similar thoughts. But I had some misconceptions
of meditation before I tried these apps. These apps helped me to start my
meditation on the right path.

After a year, I don't think I need these apps anymore. The guided meditations
are distracting themselves because the teacher jumps in at random points to
remind you of things that you already know. I do like the teachings they do
before an after meditations. Sometimes, they are helpful and insightful.

I think these apps are fine for beginners. Once you get used to meditating for
20+ minutes every day, you probably won't need them anymore.

~~~
superasn
But as a beginner who wants to start too, my question is it better to use a
paid app with monthly subscription than to listen to the same guided
meditation on mp3 or youtube?

~~~
meowzero
It's up to you. All these apps have few several free sessions you can try out.
Heck, download all the meditation apps and try all their free sessions. Those
are probably enough to help you get started.

I didn't mind paying for subscriptions. They do get into different techniques
and insights that the free content don't give you. Although I never tried
insight timer; that app seemed to give you a lot more content for free.

------
amanzi
I'm a fan of Insight Timer
([https://insighttimer.com/](https://insighttimer.com/)). It has tons of free
guided meditations as well as meditation courses that you can pay for. I tried
both Calm and Headspace and I just didn't like the _feel_ of them. Both seemed
to tick all the cliche monetisation strategies of mobile apps.

~~~
jlengrand
I used headspace for a while, but then got hammered so heavily with ads so I
heard the dude's voice for months on endm, interrupting my videos. To a point
that I just can't stand him any more and considered reporting.

I don't understand how an app that claims to want to help you meditate can
invest so heavily on harassing users with ads everywhere. This really pushed
me off meditation altogether to be honest

~~~
claudiawerner
This is the first time I'm hearing anything about headspace and the whole idea
of ads in a meditation app is simply absurd! Even if they don't play while
you're supposed to be meditating, aren't ads one of the features of our world
which is _known_ for detracting from mindfulness?

~~~
yoble
The ads are not in the app itself - headspace seems to spend a lot in
marketing and you can get hammered by repetitive ads promoting it in youtube,
etc.

End result is associating the app with annoying ads.

------
vntok
> “The irony is not lost on me,” says Rich Pierson, CEO and co-founder of
> Headspace, of the rivalry with Calm. But he’d rather focus on his Santa
> Monica, Calif.-based company’s authenticity, he says, which is drawn from
> co-founder Andy Puddicombe’s 10 years of studying meditation at Buddhist
> monasteries.

> “If you were going to see a psychologist, you’d probably want to know where
> they trained and qualified. It’s the same with meditation,” Mr. Pierson
> says. Calm’s founders previously worked in online gaming and advertising.

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tlrobinson
> “Since winning App of the Year, we seem to have a much higher growth rate
> than they do, and we’ll surpass them from now on,” Calm’s Ms. Wang says.

This statement alone makes me root for Headspace.

~~~
bsenftner
Capitalism wreaks the concepts of meditation.

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procinct
[https://outline.com/AXH95C](https://outline.com/AXH95C)

~~~
asaddhamani
Thank you

------
acqq
> anything but Zen

Well... Zen isn't just what people today associate with it:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_at_War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_at_War)

and when we're there:

[https://www.tofugu.com/japan/bushido/](https://www.tofugu.com/japan/bushido/)

------
momentmaker
Try oak meditation app by Kevin Rose. I've been using it for a while now.
There is guided or unguided meditations.

------
skilled
These apps make no sense to me. What's wrong with going outside and sitting
still? Do you really need all this tech/sounds/talking/etc,. to find stillness
in yourself?

Meditation can be tough to learn, but you only have to do it once. I find it
hard to believe that one can find true balance in their practice by using a
meditation app. And what is the deal with having to pay for something that's
essentially free?

Is it the entertainment value, or is it so that we can tell our friends, "Hey
John, I just spent $5 on that new 'stress release' meditation and I have been
feeling so zen!!".

~~~
hug
Why pay a personal trainer when you can just do pushups instead?

Why go out for dinner when you could just cook for yourself?

Why pay for a therapist when you could just stop being depressed?

Why pay for a financial advisor when you could just do your taxes yourself?

~~~
chewz
Exactly, very good question.

Why not just do pushups, walk the stairs or just go running, cook for yourself
and your friends, know yourself instead of paying for therapy. Even doing
taxes yourself isn't such a burden.

~~~
yoz-y
It's really not that hard to find out at least one reason for each of these.

Because just doing pushups is not enough and even those can de done badly.
Because cooking yourself is a completely different experience from going out
to eat, part of the experience is precisely _not having to cook and clean_.
Because some people can't help themselves and could end up in really bad
places, because for some people spending time doing taxes could be very well
used otherwise...

~~~
chewz
I advise everyone reading Die Kunst des stilvollen Verarmens. Wie man ohne
Geld reich wird [The Art of Growing Poor Stylishly] by Alexander von
Schönburg.

This is a book about why you do not really need all this stuff that commercial
capitalism is trying to sell to you. It has inspired me years ago.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander,_Count_of_Sch%C3%B6n...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander,_Count_of_Sch%C3%B6nburg-
Glauchau)

[https://www.rowohlt.de/fm/592/sample%20translationSchoenburg...](https://www.rowohlt.de/fm/592/sample%20translationSchoenburg.pdf)

[https://www.amazon.de/Die-Kunst-stilvollen-Verarmens-
reich/d...](https://www.amazon.de/Die-Kunst-stilvollen-Verarmens-
reich/dp/3871345202)

~~~
mojuba
Skimmed through the sample translation and to my surprize not everything said
there was as obvious as I was expecting it to be. Thanks!

------
sn41
I just didn't find headspace to be effective on a long term. One simple
mindfulness exercise I _did_ find useful is noting, especially observing when
you change posture. After the initial promise however, I found that the
effects did not last. I will try insight timer, since it seems to get
favorable reviews.

------
rjbwork
I find the voices used in both quite terrible. I quite like Sam Harris's voice
and so I got his app.

His actual voice is just endlessly zen, so when he's really trying to be
soothing and calm in a guided meditation. It's just really calming and
transparent, so I can focus more on the technique of meditation.

He also has more of a hands off approach compared to Headspace and Calm.
Whereas the other apps are pretty high touch, Waking Up is fairly low touch,
and Sam lets minutes go by with no guidance, just letting you attempt the
technique on your own after the introduction.

------
Accacin
I'm not really into these apps, but personally I love listening to one or two
ASMR channels on YouTube. If I'm feeling stressed I have 3 or 4 that I listen
to very often and they help me a lot.

~~~
vidar
Can you share the links?

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remir
Meditation apps certainly helped a lot of people discover that practice. In a
stressful world, that is great.

But it's funny how this turned into a big business.

------
billfruit
Is meditation really different from doing any focussed activity? Especially
isn't reading a book same thing as meditation, only more educative.

~~~
dwaltrip
Mindfulness meditation, at least, is very different. A key attribute is
awareness of the current moment -- the here and now. Books, including non-
fiction, take the reader to another place.

------
timka
TRY MEDITATION! ⁱᶠ ʸᵒᵘ ᶜᵃⁿᵗ ᵇᵉ ˢᵘᶠⁱ –Idries Shah, Knowing How To Know

------
EGreg
What do you think of Sam Harris’ app specifically? Pros and cons?

~~~
relativeadv
I've always meditated on my own. I tried Headspace to see what the fuss was
about and thought it was laughably bad...but i'm not a beginner so it probably
just wasn't aimed toward me.

Sam Harris's app is the only one i find actually valuable because he
frequently releases 5 to 30 minute "lessons" that are audio of him teaching
some aspect of meditation or purpose. Talks on death, gratitude, the goal of
meditation, thought experiments, etc. I don't do his 30 day guided meditations
that are also in the app, but I'm sure they'd benefit some people.

The pros with Sam's app is that he is going to give you a unique experience
and ask you to "look for things" in your meditation that might otherwise take
you years to realize you should be looking for.

The con is the same with all guided meditations. An app can't tell what level
of concentration you happen to be at during your 30 minute sit, and so it
often interrupts you just as you're making some real progress.

------
desireco42
I think both of those are... well kind of stupid. If you want to meditate, you
can use some guiding meditation in first few times, but really you want to be
able to meditate on your own.

In interest of many commercial products is for you to be dependent on them.
This is opposite to benefits of meditation in my view.

Now as always, real thing is much harder than pretending to do it, which is
why those two apps are popular. Sam Harris app is much better in that regard
for example.

~~~
playpause
Even people who have been meditating for decades often do guided meditations,
not because they can't do what you call the 'real thing'.

~~~
johnisgood
Via apps? :D

~~~
johnisgood
Oh yes, here we come: Guided meditation through VR! Westernize meditation too.

How about going outside to meditate in nature? What happened to that? :/ Do it
while you still can, as we have not completely destroyed our planet yet.

~~~
mbrock
I thought meditation historically has mostly happened in seclusion from
nature, in temples, monasteries, bedrooms, etc. Going indoors to sit in
meditation isn't a "Western" phenomenon!

~~~
johnisgood
Westernization is a "process whereby societies come under or adopt Western
culture". It does not necessarily have to happen in the West.

Anyway, these monasteries are actually on mountains or deep in the forest for
a good reason, so not exactly in seclusion from nature. Buddha himself is said
to have attained Bodhi under the Bodhi Tree. Meditation and nature are
strongly tied to each other. Are you trying to suggest that it is not the
case? It definitely did not happen "in seclusion from nature", that would be
not only counterproductive, but it is historically incorrect.

~~~
hanspeter
Meditation and nature are not tied at all. All you need for meditation is your
brain. You can meditate in your basement, on an airplane or under a tree.

Maybe you are confusing the mindful meditation with the spiritual meditation?

~~~
johnisgood
I did not say that you cannot, however it is more difficult to do so,
especially for a beginner, because of over-stimulation from the environment.
Of course there are many ways of doing it and with different intentions. I
said that meditation historically did not actually happen in seclusion from
nature.

------
rv-de
I really don't understand why one would need an app to meditate. Meditation is
really simple. There's no need for automated guidance.

------
bsenftner
Christ people, this is a glaring place where an app is a complete joke. Don't
be so stupid!

~~~
ryanwaggoner
You definitely sound like a good source of advice on how to be more zen and
less reactive :)

------
new_guy
These apps are horrible. They function as a crutch for people who just don't
know any better (not necessarily their own fault) and what they teach isn't
even actual 'meditation'.

And that makes it even worse because then you get all these people saying 'ooh
I meditate' when no, they've not even meditated once.

It's all western BS about making money, not about helping anyone. And people
are too stupid/lazy/dumb to know any better, it's the same with 'learn to code
in 24 hours', '6 abs in 6 weeks' etc.

If you want to meditate - actually meditate - get rid of the apps. Just go sit
somewhere and turn your attention inwards, it's so simple, children should
know this.

There's also a world of difference between 'being present' (which should be
your default mental state) and actually meditating, they're as different as
night and day, that's something else people don't get.

</rant>

The constructive part, if you're actually interested check out Raja Yoga,
again 'yoga' that westerners do is a bastardized form of Hatha Yoga which was
nothing more than a warm up in itself. There's a good series of lessons from
the 1940s. You'll find them if you're meant too.

~~~
alexashka
Please take a look in the mirror, your ego is out of control.

Words are for people to communicate to one another. They're not a stand-alone
entity that will remain correct, regardless of time and place.

In the west, yoga and meditation mean something other than what they mean, in
other cultures and time periods. That's perfectly fine.

Folks are doing stretches and holding poses, they like it. Great. Folks are
sitting down and listening to something soothing for 10 minutes, they like it.
Great.

There is no downside here - the only downside you're finding is inside
yourself, being projected outwards.

~~~
heavenlyblue
Neither do I like the tone of the parent comment, and neither have I went to
the meditation lessons, so I am not an expert, but:

>> In the west, yoga and meditation mean something other than what they mean,
in other cultures and time periods. That's perfectly fine.

You know, in real life we take care of our children because they will never
know better if we don't teach them something at the right time. So often it's
actually beneficial for someone to push you in order for you to understand the
finer things in life.

In my stretch class it would probably take me a few months to reach a split if
my teacher wouldn't just push me (by pushing I mean literally - physically
push my legs apart). Because I was afraid I would tear something apart - be he
otherwise knew it wasn't as unsafe as I've thought.

So... Yeah. Make sure you've got a good teacher before you start. Because most
of them generally do not care at all.

