
Delta Air Lines Tightens Rules for Service and Support Animals - rafaelc
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/19/business/delta-airlines-service-animals.html
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ffumarola
I have a pit bull who is amazingly well behaved, including having a CGC
(Canine Good Citizen) training certificate. However, moving in to an apartment
in San Francisco was damn near impossible. I was on the brink of leaving the
bay area because of how hard it was to find someone willing to rent to me,
until I found a private landlord who took pity on me.

Many times I had friends suggest I just lie and say my dog was an emotional
support animal. It was quite tempting because of how awful it can be to find a
place to rent in SF with a dog. If you think it's bad and you're not a pet
owner, imagine it being 10x worse. The only reason I didn't do that was
because I didn't want to contribute to rules like this which make it harder
for people who really need the ESA.

~~~
chrisper
I do not want to say it is your fault for these rules, neither do I want to do
the "pit bull stereotype," but when you chose the breed you did, you should
have known that you will have issues finding a place with that breed.

If this is only the case in the Bay Area, then my bad. I only lived there, but
of the few apartments that allowed pets, almost all of them did not like pit
bulls, huskies, etc. So getting a pit bull while living in an apartment is a
bad idea imho.

(But I'd have chosen the dog over bay area as well!)

~~~
Judgmentality
I have a labrador and it's almost impossible for me to find an apartment
either, I even upped my price to $5k a month and I still can't find anything
that isn't awful (and that's ignoring the price).

~~~
chrisper
Is it because of the weight limits? I have a lab too and remember having that
issue as well.

I only had found two places that were okay with my dog back then.

~~~
Judgmentality
The first problem is most places are not pet friendly at all. Then when you
find a place that does accept pets, they almost never accept large pets. And
even the places that supposedly accept large pets are always going to choose
the tenant that does not have a pet, even if you offer more money. In SF,
where there are multiple bidders on everything, it's almost impossible to find
a place if you have a large dog. As someone who's lived with large dogs his
whole life I have always had this problem, but not _nearly_ as bad as it
currently is in SF.

I've been so frustrated with this lately I actually tried to think of a way to
solve this problem from a business perspective, but haven't come up with
anything much better than being a super niche insurance company which would
have an incredibly hard time getting buy-in from landlords (who hold all the
power already). There's no doubt in my mind pet owners, or would-be pet
owners, would be willing to pay more for their loved ones - but how to create
a market for that when the landlords hold all the cards is something I haven't
figured out yet.

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pfarnsworth
I'm glad. I hope this spreads across the entire industry.

Emotional support animals are the biggest scam. I have friends who openly get
emotional support certificates for their animals on the Internet, and brag
about how they are avoiding paying extra fees for their animals. It's selfish
and it hurts people with real needs. I think they should only allow real
service animals with proper medical documentation and not emotional support
animals on planes.

~~~
js2
Not sure why you were down voted since it's absolutely an example of why we
can't have nice things.

There are properly trained support animals that their owners are absolutely
justified in having.

But sadly, there are also definitely some folks taking advantage in order to
bring their poorly behaved pets into places they wouldn't otherwise be
allowed. It's pretty disgusting actually.

From the story – there's absolutely no excuse for this:

> In June, a 70-pound support dog mauled a passenger on a Delta flight in
> Atlanta, biting the man’s face multiple times.

Disclosure: dog owner for many years.

~~~
cobookman
> There are properly trained support animals that their owners are absolutely
> justified in having.

ESA's do not require training. Only service animals are trained.

~~~
js2
Thanks. I didn't know the difference till now. Apparently w/regards to
airlines, ESA's fall under the Air Carrier Access Act. From what I've read,
the ACAA is less restrictive than the ADA (which only requires service animals
be allowed access) but airlines can be more restrictive than FHAA.

I wish we could have nice things, but this is why we end up needing
licenses/permits/fines.

------
j_s
Stop Faking Service Dogs |
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15178803](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15178803)
(September 2017)

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rectang
It's a messed up situation. The ADA requirements around inquiring about
service animals have the good intention of preventing endless harassment, but
they're too sloppy and subject to abuse. A targeted fix would solve the
problem. But because many congresspeople would rather repeal the ADA in its
entirety, it won't get patched.

~~~
cobookman
Why can't we just enforce a fine for fraud? Say $2,000 + having to vacate your
apartment in 48 hours. With the money going to the landlord or service
provider who calls them out.

~~~
x0x0
Probably no way this could possibly be abused.

~~~
exabrial
That was my thought too, this would likely also get abused. Lets say a
Landlord didn't like you, or wanted to move someone else in that would pay for
more rent than you.... for example.

~~~
cobookman
You can't get kicked out or fined if you didn't lie. This would be no
different than paying police to fine those who park in handicap spots
illegally.

~~~
piva00
Who is responsible for investigating? What constitutes proof? This might open
loopholes on the weakest link, the tenant.

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exabrial
Why is it so hard to fly with a dog? A person can fly with a cello if they buy
an extra seat.

Source: [https://gregorybeaver.com/the-2017-guide-to-flying-with-a-
ce...](https://gregorybeaver.com/the-2017-guide-to-flying-with-a-
cello-f27439d329ec)

~~~
cobookman
A cello doesn't give people allergies, or make noise. Honestly I don't see a
reason why you shouldn't be allowed to travel with a 70lb dog if you buy
another seat though.

~~~
tdb7893
My dog is 80 pounds and he's a good boy but between the alergies, the fur, the
possibility of disrupting other passengers, and the fact that he takes up two
seats (a dog would have to be pretty small to comfortably curl up in one seat
for multiple hours) I can see why airline companies aren't keen on it.

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fapjacks
My best friend uses a (very well-behaved and trained) emotional support animal
for PTSD that completely changed my perspective on emotional support animals.
They would change your perspective, too. I agree with other posters here that
some kind of minimal documentation is acceptable, and completely agree with a
big fine for abuse of the system.

With respect to this news item, and since the law is pretty clear, what
exactly do they mean by "documentation" here? "... it would require
documentation about their health and, in some instances, a promise of good
conduct"

Oh, so basically... Nothing worthwhile. These are the kinds of changes that
just gum up any system and end up causing a bureaucratic nightmare after the
whole thing gets tons of these totally useless processes and requirements
slapped on. You wanna talk about fining people for something? There should be
a fine for creating this kind of inefficiency.

