
Saudi Arabia and Iran: The Cold War of Islam - leroy_masochist
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/saudia-arabia-iran-and-the-new-middle-eastern-cold-war-a-1090725.html
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FreedomToCreate
To give people some context, the difference between the two (Shia vs Sunni
Muslims) is that the Shia believe Mohammed's son-in-law should have been his
rightful successor (and he eventually did become the leader) while Sunni's
believe that Mohammed Father-In-Law was his rightful successor (too bad God
couldn't have made that more clear).

Also Saudi doesn't just follow plain old Sunni Islam. They practice Wahhabism
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism))
which has a more literal reading of the Quran (which explains the higher
percentage of extremism). The royal family leveraged Wahhabism to gain and
keep power of the region.

As long as the countries remain governed by religious politics and inflict
God's so called will on others, there cannot be an end to the conflict.

~~~
rm_-rf_slash
To get a Western-style wall between mosque-and-state in historically Muslim
societies requires an almost unthinkable rewriting of the social contract.

Islam is not just a religion. It is a very deliberately structured guide for
the entirety of society. "Full-stack" social control as we on HN might call
it. The Quran is a complete manual that details everything expected and
required of a good Muslim, from the food that can be eaten to the appearance
of your body.

Trying to make a wedge between Islam and government in these places simply
will not work. Many European historians contend that Western state secularism
was a direct result of there being no lasting European empire following Rome
to enforce religious doctrines (whereas most of the ME has been in the hands
of one empire or another since the founding of Islam), and the Protestant
Reformation only cemented the expectation among various nobles that they get
to rule the world while the church sticks with ruling the soul.

In short, the greater Middle East will _always_ remain governed by religious
politics. Something has to fix the mess out there, but excluding religion
simply won't work.

~~~
kuschku
> Islam is not just a religion. It is a very deliberately structured guide for
> the entirety of society. "Full-stack" social control as we on HN might call
> it. The Quran is a complete manual that details everything expected and
> required of a good Muslim, from the food that can be eaten to the appearance
> of your body.

Christianity is not any different.

"You shall not cut your hair round or trim your beard". 3rd book Mose, 19:27

Read the Bible, and you’ll find definitions for when to eat what, how long to
preserve what, how to punish crimes, etc.

~~~
rayiner
The difference is that the New Testament explicitly rejects at least part of
the Old Testament's rules: [http://crossexamined.org/cherry-picking-the-bible-
are-christ...](http://crossexamined.org/cherry-picking-the-bible-are-
christians-expected-to-follow-the-levitical-laws).

Moreover, the elevation of faith over adherence to law as the path to
salvation also has the effect of deemphasizing the latter.

~~~
kuschku
And yet, there is a nice quote, attributed to Jesus himself, in the New
Testament, saying that "I am not here to replace the old laws". Which can be
interpreted as meaning that the OT still is relevant.

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AndrewKemendo
Iran and the Persian people have a long and illustrious history, with deep
culture going back as far as human history and a (relatively) vibrant
scientific community. They have a lot of natural resources and the firmament
for a real long sustaining culture.

Saudi on the other hand is very "new" to the world in terms of culture and
influence, only coming into prominence since the 1940s oil boom. The harsh
environment isn't hospitable to living there without extreme energy use.

Both obviously have major regional economic power, but the Saudi society is
built on sand (literally and metaphorically). In the very long term Iran's
importance will come back so if anything the US and the broader world should
be seeking to engage more with Iran and less with Saudi IMO.

That's not getting into a lot of the political stuff obviously, more just an
analysis of the "fundamentals."

~~~
godzillabrennus
It behooves the world to have a lasting peace with Iran but the last thing the
world needs is a consolidated regional religious power of any kind. It'd be
better to focus on giving the Kurds a Kurdistan in the Northern part of Iraq
to call home. I'd bet they'd be great allies to the West.

~~~
wfunction
> but the last thing the world needs is a consolidated regional religious
> power of any kind.

As if that's not happened in Western societies?

~~~
krapp
Western societies improved a great deal after the dominance of the Church was
broken.

~~~
wfunction
Shoot, I completely missed the word "religious" in the original comment! I
totally deserved the downvotes...

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audessuscest
Not so cold in Yemen...

~~~
gotofritz
..or Syria / Iraq for that matter

~~~
leroy_masochist
...but there were plenty of "hot" proxy wars in the "cold" war between NATO
and the Warsaw Pact as well, so perhaps the term is well used?

~~~
audessuscest
Yes but very close to each other so... not exactly

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pknerd
I disagree. This is not a war related to a faith but past history. Arabs and
Faras(Iranians) have grudges since ages.

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eltronix
What about the Turkey in the room?

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venomsnake
> The Islamic Republic of Iran, a Shiite theocracy, claims leadership of the
> Shiites, which make up roughly 13 percent of Muslims worldwide. For both
> regimes, religion is an important tool of power.

That is mightily misleading. It is more important what part of the shiites
make out of Middle East muslims. Because large parts of the muslim populations
live in places like Indonesia, Malaysia, India, Pakistan, China, Bangladesh -
and from bird's eye - they don't seem to care much about sectarian struggles.

~~~
tmptmp
>>Because large parts of the muslim populations live in places like Indonesia,
Malaysia, India, Pakistan, China, Bangladesh - and from bird's eye - they
don't seem to care much about sectarian struggles.

Not so much anymore. With the Salafists/Wahabis spreading their hateful agenda
against the Shias in these parts of the world in a very big way, there are
numerous incidents of mainly Sunnis attacking Shias and a little bit of the
other way round too.

