

ASK HN: Do I have to be in America to make success? - ahmedaly

Well..
Around 5 yrs ago, I had an idea for making a statrup.. I worked on it.. and developed it.. and I got thousands of users.. who were using my website..<p>I am from Egypt, and I had an American friend who supported the website.. by paying for it's hosting and all other related fees...<p>Around a year ago, I totally stopped working on it, and even it's shut down now..
My main problem was getting into America..<p>Whatever, I want to re-start this startup again.. but of course it's kind of impossible for a young Arab Muslim to travel to America (This is the truth regardless what you hear in your American media).. so I wonder.. is it possible to make a successful American startup, even if you are not in America? And is it possible to get acquired later by an American enterprise?<p>What gave me some hope again.. that recently an Arabian social network was acquired by Yahoo!.. which is maktoob.com website.. and that refreshed my dreams for making something successful..<p>What do you think?
It's very frustrating to be stopped.. just based on your religion!
======
csomar
Stop your frustration and forget about the world hating you because you are an
"Arabic Muslim". US don't love you because you are a "poor", "third-world"
citizen. Proof? Get $1 million and you'll access the states. Any country,
really!

So the first thing is: It's not about who you are. It's about how much money
you have.

You said your startup is a website (probably a kind of SaaS). If it's
successful why not charge your users. Get paid via FastSpring (they take a
fee, but deliver money to your card, bank, paypal... and manage your
subscription). You don't need access to the USA. You only need to form a
company in Egypt, declare your revenue, pay your taxes, pay hosting with your
card (provided by Fast Spring). Hire programmers in Egypt (they are cheap) and
get yourself off the ground.

Your main problem is getting into the US. But why do you want to get their?
You actually don't, it actually add expenses and Visa problems. And with only
thousands of users, you can live like a Prince in Egypt.

------
donohoe
First, as someone who is not originally an American, it is tough to get into
America legally regardless of your religion or country of origin.

The USCIS, formerly called the BSCIS, formally called the INS is tough to go
through for everyone. You need to understand that this is not becuase of your
religion or whatever - its becuase you are not American like the rest of the
world (be it Irish, French, SOuth African, Egyptian etc...)

They are equally unhelpful and incompetent to people of all nations.

~~~
ahmedaly
Sorry for making a comment off-topic..but you are wrong! Just for your
information, all Europeans can enter U.S. without a visa, through the visa
waiver program... which is not available option for Arab Muslims.

I am talking about entering America, regardless the purpose of travel!

~~~
arst
The waiver program is tied to citizenship, not ethnicity or religion. Arab
Muslims who are citizens of a VWP nation are just as eligible as everyone
else.

------
kloncks
Such an interesting discussion for me. I'm Hany, an Egyptian American,
currently living in the states and involved with technology.

The one thing that I absolutely will say is better in the United States than
other places is funding. The idea of Venture Capital (and the sheer amount of
investors) is found more here than anywhere else. A good network of capable
engineers is nice but honestly you can find that in a lot of places.

To this day, the idea of starting a startup, getting funding, being an
entrepreneur, and possibly failing is very American. To this day, the simple
idea of "failing is okay" is more concentrated here. But other than that, you
can be successful anywhere, really. The odds might be harder but not
necessarily so much harder that it would be deemed impossible. Just my two
cents.

Feel free to contact me, btw. I'd love to help any way I can. Email's in
profile.

~~~
ahmedaly
Well, I am glad to fin you here. :) There are many challenges that guys on
this website are NOT aware of!

For example.. if I want to charge my users, it's very hard to do that, because
PayPal is NOT available for Egyptians. Also it's NOT easy to setup an
international merchant account, to accept payments on the internet.

There are very critical challenges, which makes it much harder to make any
success... not to mention that it's impossible indeed to get funding
opportunity in Egypt, as you know... we don't have this culture here yet..

~~~
trevelyan
Just objectively, I think it's unrealistic for you to expect anyone to fund a
five year old site that has only managed to attract a few thousand users, and
apparently not enough paying users to cover its own server costs. The fact
that you are not in the United States is probably not the reason for your lack
of success to date.

That said, as an entrepreneur who is NOT in the United States, I agree that
setting up payment systems is a real pain point. My suggestion is that you get
a part-time job. It will cost you a few thousand a year to own an
international business (register it anywhere) and you may end up paying
prohibitively for the right to process credit cards (5%+ per transaction).

But it is possible. In the meantime, if you really want to slum it, there is
nothing stopping you from putting up a payment screen and collecting credit
card numbers, then getting your friend in the US to collect the cash for you
while you build a compelling case for someone to lend you the money to do
things more legitimately. I suspect that once you've started your own business
and have a revenue stream, you won't want investment though.

------
Towle_
_... it's kind of impossible for a young Arab Muslim to travel to America
(This is the truth regardless what you hear in your American media)_

Nonsense. I personally live in an area with a large immigrant Muslim
population, both from the Middle East and from Africa. (This is the truth
regardless of what you hear in your Egyptian media.)

~~~
ahmedaly
I don't want to continue commenting off-topic, but I am former Stanford
student, and although that.. I could not enter America! And I am talking based
on applying for U.S. visa, which is a formal information (they release the
stats for visa applicants).

~~~
Towle_
Honestly buddy, keep your stats. I have neighbors. It's difficult for anyone
who's not from a rich country to immigrate here, not just Muslims. It's
difficult for Indians, Latin Americans, Africans, everyone.

edit: By the way, if you didn't want all this off-topic discussion, you
shouldn't have said what you did in the post. You should have asked your
question with just the relevant information.

~~~
ahmedaly
I am not talking about immigration... I am talking about entering America. All
Arab Muslims who apply for U.S. visa, fill a specific forms which created for
Muslim Arabs from age 18 to 45 yrs.

You did not apply for a U.S. visa, so of course you have no idea about it. :)

~~~
burnout1540
What form are you referring to? I've poked around the US Embassy Cairo site
and I don't see any out of the ordinary requirements. Also, I sincerely doubt
there are any forms that only have to be filled out by practitioners of a
specific religion.

~~~
arst
I imagine he's referring to the
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Registration> program, which is pretty
blatantly targeted at Muslims (based on a quick glance, the only nation on the
list that's not majority Muslim is North Korea).

EDIT: See ICE's website for an official source:
<http://www.ice.gov/pi/specialregistration/index.htm> and
<http://www.ice.gov/pi/specialregistration/archive.htm>. The domestic
registration procedures are on an archived page because they applied to people
in the US prior to the effective date of the port-of-entry procedures.

~~~
tokenadult
That's an unsourced article that has been flagged as unsourced for a long
time, for something that ought to be easily sourced. The fact remains that
young people from Arab countries travel to the United States a lot, and some
immigrate each year.

P.S. A test case to try out would be to try to travel to all the countries
that are said to be on that list with a United States passport that has a visa
stamp in it from Israel. That can be problematic too.

~~~
ErrantX
I have to have two passports for this reason - one for entering Israel and one
for everywhere else. A surprising number of countries get a bit steamy about
having an Israel Visa stamp.

Israeli border guards will also stamp a piece of paper stapled to your
passport if you ask them (so it can be removed when you leave)

------
hasenj
It seems like you're fixated on getting into the U.S.

I've seen a lot of people in this state of mind, and it seems to me that
wanting something desperately makes it hard to actually get it (it puts you in
the wrong state of mind).

Focus on building a great product and don't think about being acquired. Make
something people want, get users to love your product. Find ways to monetize
the wealth you created.

It seems like what you're really asking is "I want to get into the U.S., can I
do that by making a website and hoping to get acquired?".

I think the answer to that is "not likely".

------
petervandijck
There are successful people outside of the US, ergo: no.

------
flarson77
Hi, email me at flarson[at]whiteslate.com, I have some connections in your
country and might be able to help you successfully launch your startup.

------
petercooper
Bear in mind you don't have to "be acquired" to do well. You can, more easily,
sell technology, domains, customers, information, or other business assets you
produce to US (or non-US) companies.

Further, even if you don't live in the US, your sites can target US users just
as any US site can. If you need to charge money, you'll need to figure out a
billing system to accept $, but there are few compelling reasons to be in the
US merely to serve users there (though depending on how you do it, the IRS may
think otherwise).

All that said, if you look at and learn from American businesses _and_ you
have a good feel for your local market (or the Arabic market in general), you
might even have a position most of us would envy! You can more easily "take"
ideas that have been proven in the West and do an Arabic twist on them (I
don't know about the Arabic world, but this tactic is common in non English
speaking European countries).

------
jlgosse
Don't use your race to explain why it's troublesome to move to America. I'm a
caucasian from Canada and it is very difficult for even me to move there.
While race does have a little bit to do with it, shitty American politics are
even worse.

------
TheSmoke
Well, actually if you were a "young rich Arab muslim", then you'd enter
without any problems. :)

I have a suggestion, not about entering USA.

From what I have observed, many of non-US based successful start-ups are
domestic projects and then a big company comes and buys them, as in your
example. My suggestion here is, you can target the arab world. As this has
enough people, I can also suggest you targeting the muslim world which
consists of 1.5 billion people. By doing so, you'd not have to leave your
country or deal with the crap.

------
kranner
Why do you have to move to America to develop a product that provides value to
people everywhere, including Americans?

Do that, and I'm pretty sure those American investors will find you.

~~~
ahmedaly
This is exactly the question... would I have a chance to get a funding
opportunity?

~~~
kranner
Well, couldn't you find Egyptian investors to fund you?

~~~
ahmedaly
loool... this is something uncommon here in Egypt. :) In fact, internet usage
stills low yet.

~~~
kranner
You'll find investors with the 'smart money' are very well-informed in
comparison to the general population, as they must be by necessity.

------
jibjab
You don't need to be in America to 'make success'. There are many non US
startups that did very well. Also, getting into the US to startup is nearly
impossible, so you'll have to look for other options anyway.

1) You don't need an 'American friend' to pay for hosting, all you need is a
creditcard.

2) You'll need to properly setup a company. Given your circumstances, I would
look at the free zones in the UAE. There you'll find the most business
friendly places of the whole (Arab) Middle East. No corruption and bureaucracy
there. Second, given the focus you put on being a young Muslim Arab, I'm sure
you'll find your way in the UAE, just a short flight from Egypt.

You can find more info on UAE free zones at

<http://www.dubaiinternetcity.com/> (the Dubai Free Zone for IT companies)

<http://www.rakftz.com/> (the (cheaper) Free Zone of Ras al Khaimah (another
emirate of the UAE).

------
richardw
Write something useful that people will pay you money for, and you can do it
from anywhere. People have been successful since before America was America.
This will continue.

In fact, your costs are much lower outside the developed world, reducing your
risk and how much money you have to find to start your business (if anything).
Your customers can be anywhere. Spend low, earn high. And I'm willing to bet
that the competition is much lower because The Valley isn't even aware you
exist, or that your town or city exist. You could be super-successful and
still be under their radar.

Turn what you consider your weakness, into your strength.

------
semanticist
If you honestly feel that you can't do your startup in Egypt, look to Europe
as well as the US. There's a broader range of immigration policies and plenty
of places with a 'startup culture'.

Alternatively, develop a model that doesn't require external funding, at least
until you've got demonstrable traction. You can create a US company even
without being in the US and it can sell shares as normal.

I know there's this huge pressure to get to San Francisco, but it's really not
the only place in the world where you can succeed.

------
Alex3917
No, you don't have to be in America to be a success. But a much better
question is, "Do you have what it takes to be successful in America?" Because
if you do, then you should come here.

~~~
idiopathic
If someone has "what it takes to be a success in America", they should spend
their time and talent on being a success at home rather than trying to
convince US government officials that 1) they are not taking Americans' jobs,
and for us Arab muslims that 2) they are not a terrorist.

Please note that the problems are 1) you have to do this when your competitors
do not, and 2) your explanations have to go though a government official, ie
you will waste many years and the process has nothing to do with logic or
facts.

I say this as someone who left the USA even after my employer and my wife's
both offered to convert our H1B visas to greencards. But I decided that 6
years (our H1B time in the USA) was already too long that I delayed my
startup, and waiting for the green card again was not worth it.

I think your real problem is not that you are not in the USA, it is that you
are in Egypt. Bahrain, my country, has problems, but Egypt is something else.

So I think you should really go to Dubai. (I want to say Bahrain, but Dubia is
our Silicon Valley, so go there my friend.)

Also, while in Egypt, or Dubai, or anywhere else in the Arab world... apply to
Seedcamp. In my year, Talasim from Jordan won, as did my own company, although
I applied from Cambridge, UK. But now I am in the Gulf, pursuing clients, and
I can tell you that I have access to some here who are more sophisticated than
any I saw in the USA. So use what have, go where you can work quickly, because
that is what you need for success, not being in the USA.

------
Locke1689
If you do choose to target your site at America I'd recommend you work on your
English. Honestly though, why don't you target the citizens of your home
country? You're going to have more trouble fighting the culture barriers in
the US anyway (assuming your product isn't highly technical).

------
BigZaphod
What about this particular startup required you to get to America? The world
is a pretty big place and there's plenty of other places to work within that
don't have the (hopefully temporary) political issues with your religion.

------
igorgue
I don't think your goal should be getting acquired. And many businesses are
successful even in 3rd world countries.

------
allend
No

------
c00p3r
World is much bigger than America. Of course, there are established economic
clusters, like the valley, but it isn't the only destination.

Try Bangalore, India or China. Try to find a niche for your startup around
your home (which means find a people with a task/problem and money and turn it
into your next startup. Usually that is some internet service for an non-IT
established business).

And it is also possible, but really difficult, to bootstrap yourself, if your
startup idea is really innovative. Technology is very cheap nowadays.

And the last but not the least - try to find people in situation like your and
cooperate and collaborate with them.

I'm personally think that geo-dispersed teams, like that one which develops
FreeBSD or Webkit or Go are the answer to the problem. Communication is the
key, not a connectivity.

~~~
ahoyhere
Bootstrapping is easy. Shopping yourself around for funding, and then managing
your investor's expectations and demands on top of your theoretical
customers', is hard.

~~~
c00p3r
It is not so easy if you also need to earn money somehow for living.

~~~
ahoyhere
Right, because I was living off my trust fund…

Here's what you do to bootstrap, a time-honored technique: Build it in your
spare time. Freelance, at a higher rate than you'd earn at a regular job
(totally possible), so you can work fewer hours. Figure out how to create
windfall incomes to help fund your project -- I cowrote a technical ebook, and
develop & give training courses. I only had to develop the course once, and
edit it each time.

That's how I have created Freckle (<http://letsfreckle.com>) and how we are
creating Charm (<http://charmde.sk>), among other products. (I was finally
able to quit consulting on the side in January, except for an outstanding
contract, to focus on products alone. My tactics work.)

------
Charuru
My recommendation is that you bootstrap your startup for now, this should be
possible if your startup is of a social media style thing. Once you have
traction, you can try asking here again and maybe you'll get some more
interesting advice.

------
michaelhalligan
America is a puritanical Christian nation. I'm surprised they allowed the
Catholics in.

