
Show HN: InstaPart – Build circuit boards faster with instant parts - natashabaker
http://www.snapeda.com/instapart
======
natashabaker
Dear HN Community,

I wanted to introduce our startup SnapEDA to the HN community. We recently
completed Y Combinator, and have been quiet about the platform while we've
been improving it. With that said, we’d love to get feedback from the HN
community!

Our goal is to build a canonical library for making circuit boards: one
trusted, centralized place to get digital models. These digital models include
PCB footprints, schematic symbols, and 3D models. The library exports to a
growing set of popular EDA tools: EAGLE, Altium, KiCad, Cadence OrCad/Allegro
(Beta), & Mentor PADS (Beta).

The library is free because we believe in making this data widely accessible
to enable innovation. The purpose of this new feature, InstaPart, is to give
designers an option to "skip the queue" and get a part quickly if it doesn't
yet exist in the free library. Once that part is made, it is then made
available for the entire community to download for free. Growing the library
is a top area of focus, so we hope to eventually render the InstaPart feature
obsolete and just have everything available natively. :-)

In terms of standards, all new libraries are being made to IPC, and we also
source models by partnering with component manufacturers. To ensure quality,
we have an automated verification checker on each part page that provides a
pass/fail result on common manufacturing issues that we plan to expand with
additional checks.

Thanks HN!

Natasha

~~~
Fiahil
> and verified using proprietary patent-pending verification technology

Is "proprietary patent-pending technology" really necessary? It's the kind of
phrasing seen on uninteresting product trying to pretend they're interesting
(ex: "Our Proprietary Patent-Pending Technology Makes Our Product So Great
This Single Mom Can't Even Talk About It. Discover Now For $99.99")

~~~
natashabaker
Here's our motivation for that wording: We know how important verification is
and we spent a ton of time building an automated verification system (still in
Beta) that provides transparency into common issues with CAD models. It can
uncover and display defects, such as the centroid not being at 0,0 which will
cause issues with pick-and-place machines, eventually pin mapping issues as
well. We were trying to find a way to succinctly communicate this focus &
investment into verification technology which differentiates us from any other
library in the market. Apparently that was not communicated well and we'll re-
word to make this more clear. :-)

------
zbrozek
I'm a professional hardware engineer, and doing this kind of work is something
I do frequently and begrudgingly. Having this kind of service available will
be a huge help. Some thoughts:

\- Who writes the style guide? How do you make aesthetic decisions?

\- Will you support multiple symbol styles? Would it be possible to upload
stylesheets or specially annotated schematics and then regenerate already-
extant parts in that style?

\- Is there any intention of making the file writers open-source? Altium, in
particular, has a stupid and annoying file format and it would be a gift to
the community to be able to write good PcbLib and SchLib files. It would make
it easy for me to write a linting and style-casting tool.

\- Is there any chance of bringing down the latency, possibly with the
application of more money? My rule of thumb is that it's worth spending about
a hundred dollars to save myself an hour. A typical smallish library part
takes me about five or ten minutes if I have to do both schematic and
footprint, so waiting a day isn't really attractive at any price. But if I
could throw money at you to get a result turbospeed, that'd be worthwhile.

~~~
natashabaker
Re: Style - As a starting point we follow IPC-7351B for footprints and our own
internal standard as outlined here:
[http://snapeda.com/standards](http://snapeda.com/standards). Over time we'd
like to allow for more customization to account for different styles and
preferences.

Re: Symbol styles - that's really interesting and is an awesome idea. Will
think about how we can do this. Definitely have thought about storing user
preferences. For example, some people like NC pins on symbols while others
like them hidden.

Re: Open Source - Haven't thought about this side yet but will consider it. We
have made open our API and maybe we can expand that to include the exporters.

Re: Faster turn - Anything available on the site already is obviously free and
instantaneous. I think it's worth exploring with my team if we can do a faster
turnaround on InstaPart. We definitely have ideas on how to do this. Our part
creation is a mix of automated and manual work. The longest part of the
process is verification. But again, hopefully eventually this stuff just all
exists readily available without requiring a special request.

------
compumike
Shocking that it's 2016 and the component manufacturers aren't providing this
data free and online, right next to the datasheet link.

Then again, after working with these companies, it's not so surprising!
Congrats on the launch.

~~~
Animats
I'm surprised this is a retail business. Doing this in conjunction with Digi-
Key, Mouser, or Hamilton/Avnet would seem to make more sense. They already
distribute the data sheets for the parts they sell. Also, it would be far
cheaper to make footprints if you did them in bulk, working your way though
long catalogs of similar parts.

Maybe the retail thing is to get some credibility so they can deal with the
major distributors.

~~~
natashabaker
We'd love to work with distributors to help proliferate this content. And yes
internally we prioritize development of content in bulk. But sometimes there's
a model that is needed that is outside of our development efforts. This is
where InstaPart fits in. It's an option to 'skip the queue' and get any model
quickly if it's outside of the models we are prioritizing internally.

------
zbjornson
_Not an EE_ Am I correct that you replace this lengthy process?
[https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/designing-pcbs-smd-
foot...](https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/designing-pcbs-smd-footprints)

~~~
StavrosK
That is the process, yes, but it's not really that lengthy. You can usually
just add the first pin and then copy/paste the rest in the row really quickly.

~~~
rfrank
Yeah, for the most part library stuff is quick. Some tools let you pattern
place the pins and plop them all down at once. High pin count parts like FPGAs
and connectors with weird footprints are the big time sinks.

~~~
akiselev
Weird footprints are really the only time consuming part with modern EDA
software. Tools like Altium have templates, footprint generators, and features
for bulk editing symbols and footprints so all you do is create a quick Excel
spreadsheet with pin number and formulas for x and y (especially easy for
FPGAs and processors with pins in a grid). You copy paste that spreadsheet
into Altium and you're done. It takes me less than 10 minutes to manually draw
a footprint for a 500+ pin processor this way.

~~~
rfrank
Yeah, when I was doing library stuff I used Mentor Expedition which has all
kinds of stuff for speeding up footprint creation. Symbols can be time
consuming for the various XXGAs because some of our customers have fairly...
elaborate standards for visual appearance, pin locations, etc.

------
BrooklynRage
Bookmarked this site. The database seems super useful.

I have mixed feelings about the custom footprint service -- I've worked with
~900-pin BGA SoC-type parts, and paying $30 to do that would be a no brainer,
but paying the same for a 8-pin LDO would be a tougher sell -- maybe scale
prices with part complexity?

The tougher sell to me is trust / verification of the InstaPart models before
the community can vote them up or down. For most teams that I've been on, the
most time-consuming part isn't really the pinout generation, but rather the
checking of large parts (often 2 engineers checking pin-by-pin to ensure that
footprint matches data sheet). I'd be much more comfortable using it if you
outlined how pinouts are verified before sending them out to the customers.

I hope this works out! Making footprints is a huge PITA, and I'd love to be
rid of it.

~~~
mng2
Agreed on the verification aspect. And what happens when an error makes it
through and your customer has to scrap $xK worth of boards?

I work at a $largeco with dedicated footprints people and a long DFM pipeline,
and footprint errors still get through from time to time. When there's tens of
thousands of dollars riding on a board turn, you're still going to check it
yourself.

------
Tom1971
I just created an account with the LinkedIn login option.

When I get back to the front page, it shows for everybody to see with my full
name that I just joined snapeda.

Why???

~~~
natashabaker
Thanks for the feedback. Will share this with my team and see what we can do
about a re-design of that.

~~~
Tom1971
At the very least, you should have allowed new users to change the screen name
first, and inform them of this.

I assume you want commercial users to use your service as an alternative for
DigiKey etc. Some prefer to stay under the radar in everything they do.

Second remark: for all components that I select, the 2D view shows:

    
    
       Th
       P
    

The rest falls off the screen on an iPhone 6. I'm guessing it wants to say
"this part is not available" or something.

You need to test drive your website on more browsers.

~~~
natashabaker
Yes, that's a very good point. Most of our users are professionals like you
mentioned so I think this definitely merits design changes. Also, regarding
iPhone, we aren't yet compatible on mobile (most of our users visit from their
desktops where they download the files), but it should at least still be
usable, so thanks again for letting us know. :-)

------
honkhonkpants
I think your footprints should be shown with dimensions, because before I drop
hundreds or thousands of dollars on a run of PCBs, I'm going to have to check
your footprints to make sure they are correct, and that could actually take me
longer than drawing them from scratch.

~~~
natashabaker
That's a great idea. Will add the ability to toggle to see dimensions as a
feature in our roadmap.

~~~
StavrosK
Yes, a ruler on the footprint page would be great.

------
FreedomToCreate
As a designer, this looks like a great convenience since making a symbol and
footprint usually takes a half hour on average. The 3D feature is the most
useful part as a proper model takes much longer but at $79 dollars it could be
expensive for people like me who design boards with many ICs and and unique
components. With that said, in a very time constrained project with a lot of
new components which we have no symbols for, if I could select and buy
everything I need in a packaged deal, that would be appealing.

~~~
natashabaker
Good to know. You can actually download unlimited 3D models with the Premium
version ($99/month). It is custom 3D models that cost $79 for 24-hour
turnaround, and $39 for 5-day turnaround. (Although symbols & footprints
available on the site are free, 3D models are currently Premium only.)

------
Nanite
This is actually quite useful, as an occasional user of a variety of layout
packages, once in a while run I into that one rare part which isn't in a
library, and end up wasting an hour finding the specs/measuring the part and
figuring out how the component editor works.

------
wyager
Awesome! Making footprints is the single most annoying part of PCB design.
Looks great!

------
jazzychad
Very cool! I can't seem find any links to click on to actually order parts
from manufacturers when I find a part - e.g.
[https://www.snapeda.com/parts/MCP23017-E/SP/Microchip/view-p...](https://www.snapeda.com/parts/MCP23017-E/SP/Microchip/view-
part/)

There's the whole section at the top about availability and average price, but
no link to go buy it? In addition to the InstaPart revenue, are you also going
to make money with affiliate sales to parts sites (a la Octopart)?

~~~
natashabaker
If you go to the Pricing tab you'll see links to buy the parts through popular
North American and European distributors. This data is supplied via Octopart.

~~~
jazzychad
Ah, I completely didn't see that tab... Then perhaps some usability feedback;
maybe create links of the already orange text in the upper left hand box (the
"Average Price") and have it auto-choose the Pricing tab below and scroll the
page there? Make it super easy to find :)

------
LAMike
Is this where people should go to make a production level PCB's for products
that are prototyped on something like a raspberry pi? Or is it serving a
different market?

~~~
natashabaker
Yes, exactly. It's for people designing custom PCBs. That includes people who
have something prototyped on a Raspberry Pi/Arduino, etc. and want to migrate
to a custom board that's ready for production (ie. to get cost, form factor
down).

~~~
nojvek
Interesting. Is there a guide for someone who's not a PCB designer to get his
raspi project as a custom board ?

I want to make a raspi remote controller that controls IR devices around my
house via a web app. This would be a perfect, but I have no idea how to get it
into a PCB design.

~~~
Kliment
Hey, I do this kind of stuff. Email me and I'll help you get started.

------
madengr
Why? Making schematic symbols and PCB footprints is not time consuming, and at
least you'll have the proper paste mask. Altium has an IPC footprint generator
wizard, and 3Dcontentcentral has lots of user contributed parts in STEP
format.

~~~
wott
> _Why? Making schematic symbols and PCB footprints is not time consuming_

Whaaaaaat? o_O

~~~
madengr
The pre-canned libraries will never have the typical customization needed for
PCB.

The paste mask aperatures need sizing depending on what stencil thickness you
use.

Need vias under the QFN belly pad for RF or heat sinking purposes. Do those
need tenting on the back side? They also may need to avoid the paste
aperatures?

How about solder mask relief? Copper defined pads or mask defined pads?

Are the part centroids on the correct layer? Also the keep out regions, and 3D
model?

What I'm getting at is the footprints are more than just copper pads; that's
the easy part. They will still require lots of customization, so you are
better of just doing them yourself and building up your own library.

Now having correct schematic symbol pinouts for that 1024 ball BGA. That is
useful.

PCB library vendors have come and gone over the 20+ years I have been an EE.

Also, as someone else mentioned, the schematic symbols are defined by if you
have a logical (digital) or physical (RF) schematic. For example, pin spacing
should be such that bypass caps can be squeezed between. Even data sheets have
multiple symbols for the same part in the same data sheet; Linear Technology
is a good example of this.

Anyone doing PCB professionally will make their own symbols and footprints. A
hobbyist using free layout software won't pay $29 for a footprint.

~~~
CamperBob2
So, first you say this stuff isn't time-consuming, then you post a list of
very well-thought-out reasons why it _is_. Which is it?

 _Anyone doing PCB professionally will make their own symbols and footprints._

Used anything from Analog Devices lately? They provide symbols and footprints
via Ultra Librarian ( [http://www.analog.com/en/design-center/packaging-
quality-sym...](http://www.analog.com/en/design-center/packaging-quality-
symbols-footprints/symbols-and-footprints.html) ). It works fine. This is just
a vendor-independent alternative, and a welcome one.

That being said: yes, "Trust but verify" are words to live by in this
business.

------
pmorici
Seems like an interesting service. I'm kind of confused by the site though.

On the landing page it says, "Get any schematic symbol and PCB footprint
delivered in 24 hours. Just $29." Then I did a search for a part and clicked
request and, after signing up for an account, it said that to get it in 24
hours I need to pay $79 and $29 was for 5 days service. I also somehow ended
up on a page at one point that said that you could request any part for free.
So which is it really?

I also found the social network aspect of the site off putting particularly
since there was no mention of that and then after I signed up for an account
to give the request a part service a try I see my user name plastered on the
sites front page in a feed of recently signed up users and deactivating my
account doesn't remove that.

~~~
natashabaker
I think you must have been on the 3D model tab, which cost more than the 2D.
(The 2D models are $29 for InstaPart.) And if the parts are already available
they're free. We'll figure out how to make this more clear... Thanks for the
feedback

As for the social media aspect, good to hear that as well. I talk with my team
and see if we can add an option to suppress that, or re-design that page.

------
nzjrs
What's the liability situation if you deliver an incorrect footprint?

------
legulere
Your terms and conditions site has a third paragraph twice:
[https://www.snapeda.com/about/terms/](https://www.snapeda.com/about/terms/)

~~~
natashabaker
Thanks. Will fix this next time we deploy updates.

------
timecop
Anyone who cant spend a few minutes in their EDA tool of choice to create a
symbol or footprint and instead chooses to pay $29 here should not have a job
(or a hobby) making electronics.

------
new299
What license are the footprints provided under? I couldn't see this on the
main page?

~~~
new299
ok found it:

"Individual CAD symbols and footprints on SnapEDA are licensed with a Creative
Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License (CC BY-SA) with the
Design Exception 1.0. This license allows designers to use CAD files
downloaded from SnapEDA for commercial and personal use free of charge, and
make derivative works. If CAD files, or derivatives thereof, are shared
publicly, attribution must be given to the source (SnapEDA and the original
author, as applicable), as outlined by the requirements of the license.

Use of the SnapEDA website is governed by the Web Site Terms and Conditions of
Use.

In short, you cannot use the SnapEDA website for the purpose of sharing the
content on the Internet or within an EDA tool, but otherwise you are free to
use the files for designs."

That's too restrictive for something I'm paying for. Particularly at 29USD a
footprint.

I'd love it if there was an open option here. Particularly if it integrated
with Kicad well and I could automatically upload my footprints.

~~~
natashabaker
This terms of use was originally written for our free library. Basically the
way the license works is that as soon as you use a model in your designs
(Design Exception), there is no license; it becomes your IP. You can re-post
the models online in small quantities so long as you provide attribution to
the source (SnapEDA). For InstaPart, we haven't re-evaluated the license, but
we're open to it if you have better ideas. All our InstaPart users are
professionals who are simply using the models in their designs (ie. not re-
posting to the Internet), and therefore the attribution is not an issue. The
models immediately become part of their IP. Basically the motivation behind
our license was to be as flexible as possible without encouraging people to
scrape and re-post vast quantities of the library without attribution.

------
necdetalpmen
Looks great, someone had to do this :-) Can't wait to give it a try!

------
necdetalpmen
Sounds great, someone had to do this :-) Can't wait to try!

------
IgorPartola
I mostly use Fritzing. Will it be supported at some point?

~~~
natashabaker
We get Fritzing requests occasionally so would like to include it eventually,
but don't have a timeline for it right now. Basically we're prioritizing
formats based on demand so if there's enough demand from Fritzing users, we'll
speed it up.

------
sandGorgon
you should producthunt this!

------
transfire
Nice.

