
Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market - flormmm
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-02/millennial-men-leave-perplexing-hole-in-a-hot-u-s-labor-market
======
athenot
> _Weary of long days earning minimum wage, he quit his job in a pizzeria in
> June. He wants new employment but won’t take a gig he’ll hate. So for now,
> the Pittsburgh native and father to young children is living with his mother
> and training to become an emergency medical technician, hoping to get on the
> ladder toward a better life._

Perplexing? The opening of this article gives a pretty straightforward answer:
people in that demographic aren't buying the narrative that a minimum-wage job
will necessarily come with growth opportunities. So instead of getting pigeon-
holed, they are trying to jump into a career with better growth opportunities.
Sometimes that requires leaving immediate money on the table.

~~~
ananonymouse
It's exactly this.

I'm a member of this group.

I was told growing up by first-generation college graduates that any degree
was better than no degree. I had persistent doubts, but was told by those same
parents year after year before and during college that "You may not want it
now, but you won't regret having it in the future."

So not knowing better and not being _told_ any better by the university I
attended, I got a history degree and tens of thousands of dollars in student
loan debt. When I graduated in 2012, I was reluctant to leave the town that I
grew up in (where there were no jobs, being essentially only a university
town) and could only find service sector work. The same baby boomers that told
me to put myself in debt to secure a degree now told me that any job was
better than no job at all.

I eventually was able to get a job at a call center after being a temp (twice)
at the same corporation. Yet within a year, I hit a hard income cap. In this
job that I had worked so hard to secure, I could only pay off my debt over
more than a decade throwing all my disposible income at it. And the job was
soul-crushing. All my coworkers were warm-bodies that life had shat upon; my
bosses were all sociopathic and incompetent PMPs that could barely open
Outlook and constantly took the credit for any and all off-paper work that I
did. For some reason, I started drinking heavily.

I was fortunate enough to be able to support my wife while she learned how to
code and through fate, diligence, and diversity metrics, she was able to
secure an IT job. She convinced me to quit soon afterwards and try to follow
in her footsteps, but with apparently less favorable odds. Who wants to hire
an unemployed self-taught 30-year-old white male with an unstable work history
in an entry-level role?

And now, if looking down the barrel of economic obsolescence wasn't enough, I
have to deal with baby-boomers, who by their own admission waltzed with ease
into careers, constantly looking down on me for not gladly and immediately
selling what remains of my youth to pernicious corporations whose five-year
plans inevitably include either automating my position or shuttering because
of the brick & mortar apocalypse.

Yes, it's a very perplexing hole, this lack of participation.

Our pipedream at this point is for me to be a stay-at-home dad and develop
FOSS software when I'm not caregiving or doing home economy, with the eventual
goal of buying a farm somewhere where we can both be doing what we really want
(i.e. living as ethically as we possibly can in a dystopian hellscape far, far
away from the gods of the Marketplace). I don't think this feeling is in the
minority.

~~~
dsajames
I don't know who gave that advice, but I'm ten years older than you and was
frequently told that a history degree would get me little.

------
michaelbuckbee
Anytime the issue of millenials and jobs comes up, I think you have to talk
about what the structural differences in the economy and business world are
now:

"Thirty years ago, she says, you could walk into any hotel in America and
everyone in the building, from the cleaners to the security guards to the
bartenders, was a direct hire, each worker on the same pay scale and enjoying
the same benefits as everyone else. Today, they’re almost all indirect hires,
employees of random, anonymous contracting companies: Laundry Inc., Rent-A-
Guard Inc., Watery Margarita Inc. In 2015, the Government Accountability
Office estimated that 40 percent of American workers were employed under some
sort of “contingent” arrangement like this—from barbers to midwives to nuclear
waste inspectors to symphony cellists. Since the downturn, the industry that
has added the most jobs is not tech or retail or nursing. It is “temporary
help services”—all the small, no-brand contractors who recruit workers and
rent them out to bigger companies."

From the fantastic [https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/poor-
millenn...](https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/poor-millennials/)

~~~
uep
Doesn't this mean that middle-men are just being inserted who are absorbing
some of the productivity (earnings) of the worker?

It seems like this would only make economic sense if the end company isn't
using them on a regular basis, so overall efficiency goes up by multiplexing
an employee out to multiple companies as needed. It seems implied by "Rent-A-
Guard", but I'm musing out-loud. I haven't had a chance to read your article
yet.

~~~
barrow-rider
> Doesn't this mean that middle-men are just being inserted who are absorbing
> some of the productivity (earnings) of the worker?

Essentially, yes.

------
throw_millenial
People love to talk about privilege, but being a male millenial in 2018 is
anything but that. The media says you're a sexual predator. They say you're
toxically masculine. That is, the very hormones imbued within you are to blame
for a host of problems. If you're white they say you are constantly oppressing
people of color. If you're in tech, then you're worst kind of man possible - a
tech bro.

Couple the prevailing sentiment with a change in the type of available jobs.
Physically demanding work is less common now, and manufacturing, long a
mainstay of male occupation, was moved overseas. Office work is more about
people relationships, which generally favors women. Our education system is
similarly biased against men these days.

I'm at the old end of the millenial generation, but if I was 25, I don't think
I'd be too motivated either. I'm not surprised when these young men favor
sitting in a basement playing video games over getting a job. Or watching porn
instead of going after a girlfriend. The culture has shifted. For some people
it's a huge win and there are a wealth of new opportunities - but it is a zero
sum game, and now we're seeing the losers.

------
peterburkimsher
I'm a 29 year old male. I've been trying to get a new job since March, and
I've been unemployed since August. I have an MEng in Electronic Systems
Engineering, and over 3 years continuous relevant work experience.

I have tried applying through Seek and TradeMe, and got no response. I tried
writing custom cover letters and applying on company websites. I've rewritten
my résumé several times based on contradictory advice. I updated my LinkedIn,
and made a second LinkedIn profile to add strangers. I asked recruiters for
help. I put side projects on the web, especially Show HN, to try to get
attention. I asked friends who I worked with at Fisher & Paykel Healthcare
when I was there before. I found random people on Github and offered to work
for free on open-source projects just to get an introduction. I contacted
computer repair shops and asked them to put up posters advertising data
migration services that I could do with my old Apple II. I've contacted every
Apple-certified repair person in NZ/Aus/Can to ask them for help. I've tried
praying about it. I've tried spamming the companies that have emails readily
available, from the accredited employers list. I posted a desperate plea on
Facebook, and followed up on advice (+1 introduction) from friends. None of
these methods are working. I've had only two interviews. Most companies don't
even send rejections. I've lowered my standards so now I'll accept any kind of
job, anywhere.

This is a cry for help. I know I'm doing something totally wrong. I just don't
know how to contact companies. Please tell me what to do. Please tell me email
addresses of people who care.

~~~
Alex63
I looked at the résumé linked from your profile, too. I agree with ac29, plus
the following suggestions:

* Remove all the logos/links. They're not helping the first impression, and they'll almost certainly confuse the systems that are used to scan/store your résumé.

* Take out the reference to military technology in your objective. If you get an interview you can ask them if they do military work and explain your reservations.

* Simplify your work history. Try to make it as sequential as possible, with as few gaps as possible. If you have a lot of work experience that is not directly relevant to the position you are seeking, consider changing the format and just list "Relevant Experience".

* Make your education section simpler. Just list your most advanced degree, or include your Bachelor's degree if it is in another field. Don't show your GPA, but include any academic honours you received while obtaining your degree.

* Remove all the icons on the second page, including the flags.

* Condense your charity work/hobbies/extra-curricular activities to a short list. Do list any directorships you held/hold. Don't list specific job titles unless they directly relate to the position you seek.

* You might consider just saying "References available upon request."

Your résumé comes across as kind of "all purpose". Maybe that's just because
it's the one you include in your profile. If you aren't creating a focused
résumé for each opportunity, you might want to consider doing that.

~~~
peterburkimsher
The problem is not the résumé. The problem is that nobody is receiving it. I
have 3 résumés and I'll make another according to your guidelines. I want only
one thing from you.

Email addresses. Please tell me somebody who can give me a job if I do this
right. I need somebody who can help. Not somebody who will complain. Somebody
who cares. Somebody who can give me food and shelter, a minimum wage.
Anything.

~~~
nasalgoat
You appear quite desperate and perhaps this desperation is coming through to
the people you talk to and the interviews you do. As a hiring manager I can
tell you, desperation is a massive turn-off and red flag.

Change your resume as the others have directed you and keep applying. Perhaps
take a look at remote work options as well. But you need to dial back the
desperation.

~~~
peterburkimsher
I am desperate. Please teach me how to write something that isn't desperate. I
don't know how.

Keep applying which way? Nothing works! Keep sending emails? Keep using job
listing websites? Keep using LinkedIn? Which one will perform differently
after I scale up to thousands instead of hundreds? I need email addresses of
people who care. I need to be introduced to someone who can provide food and
shelter.

~~~
nasalgoat
Hiring managers aren't interested in feeding and clothing you. They want to
hire skilled workers to perform a service. The fact you even bring it up is a
huge red flag.

If you're not getting job interviews when you apply, then you need to tailor
your resume to what they're looking for. You've gotten good advice on how to
do that.

------
MIKarlsen
_" If you get to the point where you’re turning 30, you’ve never held a real
job and you don’t have a college education, then it is very hard to recover at
that point."_

I've raised this point to a fair few of my friends and colleagues recently. I
think it is becoming increasingly hard to contribute to society, because
everything is so gosh-darn technical.

Companies _scream_ for developers - but not junior developers, or people who
they can teach to program - but developers with 5+ years worth of experience.

I think this will only get WAY worse in the future. Unfortunately, I also
think it will mean that people who fail to get a job after taking their degree
will be worse off than people with little or no education, who has always had
a job (no matter the type of job).

So if you're done with college/university (which is when you're around 25-30
y/o in Europe), and you can't get a job, and you can't put your education to
use. You're pretty much shit out of luck in most cases. Of course you can
always dig yourself out, but doing so would most likely mean working a min-
wage job for 8-10 hours a day, and then spending all your free-time and
weekends learning a useful skill, which doesn't leave much time for friends or
family (or making a family).

~~~
k__
On the other hand, how many people can you train to become programmers?

~~~
MIKarlsen
Are you asking if it would be feasible for companies to take in well-educated
people, and teaching them the programming/dev-craft?

I don't know. But right now, companies are trying to solve the problem in
other ways, which is ultimately not addressing their core need.

I just feel like some sort of educational system (bootcamp'ish) would be able
to make a good business case for most companies.

~~~
ams6110
When I finished my undergrad education, my first job was with a big consulting
firm. Early 1990s. They did have a 6 or 8 week "boot camp" and they taught new
hires how to program. Many of them had had no significant prior background in
programming.

------
panarky
It's not perplexing at all. People forget that the market for labor is just
like other markets.

If you're selling a thing and the market price is lower than the thing is
worth, then you don't sell it.

If the minimum wage kept up with the increase in worker productivity over the
last 50 years, today's minimum wage would be about $19.50.

So workers who refuse to take dead-end jobs are simply rational economic
actors refusing to sell a large fraction of their existence for a pittance.

If employers have job openings they can't fill, while workers are idle because
they won't work so cheap, then shouldn't the market-clearing wage increase? If
not, what's preventing it?

~~~
ams6110
> If employers have job openings they can't fill, while workers are idle
> because they won't work so cheap, then shouldn't the market-clearing wage
> increase? If not, what's preventing it?

Other workers will work cheap. See, it doesn't matter what you _think_ your
time is worth. The supply of people willing to work is what determines what it
_is_ worth.

Minimum wage jobs can literally be done by almost anyone who is not mentally
or physically handicapped. You can "refuse to sell" your labor at that price,
but when you have nothing in the way of skills or experience to offer, you
really are just choosing to be unemployed.

~~~
panarky
The key point is that employers have job openings they can't fill [1].

If you are correct that other workers are willing to work that cheap, then the
jobs would be filled.

Workers exist but are unwilling to work that cheap, so they're idle while
employers have unfilled jobs.

Whenever you see a news story that says "employers having difficulties finding
qualified workers," you can safely replace that phrase with "employers are
unwilling to pay the market rate for labor."

[1] U.S. job openings hit record high of 7.14 million
[https://www.investing.com/news/economic-indicators/us-job-
op...](https://www.investing.com/news/economic-indicators/us-job-openings-hit-
record-high-of-714-million-1646316)

~~~
dleslie
Indeed; they're either unwilling to pay the market rate for the labour _or_
they are unwilling to train.

Any time an employer states that they cannot find a _suitable_ candidate for a
position it is an admission that they are unwilling to train.

~~~
gwright
I think you are excluding other scenarios:

A business may not be able to pay minimum wage and training costs. The
solution there is more qualified people (but they take better paying jobs),
lower wage (legally impossible), pass increases on to consumers (higher wages
paired with higher costs). Wage increases can't magically be absorbed,
especially in service industries with plenty of substitutes. Customers will
just disappear.

The best example I can think of is restaurants closing in NYC because the
increased wage costs due to increased minimum wage requirements made certain
business models unsustainable:
[http://thefederalist.com/2018/07/16/15-minimum-wage-hike-
wre...](http://thefederalist.com/2018/07/16/15-minimum-wage-hike-wreaking-
havoc-new-york-citys-dining-sector/)

~~~
dleslie
You gave many reasons why an employer may be unwilling, but it's the same
outcome regardless: an unwillingness to train or pay more.

~~~
gwright
I don't think that is an accurate summary of the situation at all. In
particular your characterization asserts indirectly that that the employer is
doing something wrong, that if only they were "willing" the problem would be
rectified. But it is nonsensical to think that a business is going to
willingly make choices that go against its own self interest, that hurts its
business.

It makes no sense to hire an employee for $X/hour if that won't increase
revenue by at least $X/hour.

It makes no sense to raise prices to cover an employee's wages/training for
$Y/month, for example if revenue goes down by more than $Y/month (higher
prices => less sales)

~~~
dleslie
I don't believe I asserted that the employer is wrong in being unwilling to
train or pay market rates for labour. There are many valid reasons to be so
unwilling.

------
ravenstine
> Men -- long America’s economically privileged gender

It depends on how you look at it. Don't get me wrong, men have had lots of
privileges, but they have long been _expected_ to work. Those social
expectations are rapidly disappearing, and somewhat shifting to women, and
we're seeing rates of depression and suicide rise for women in roughly the
same time frame. Calling it privileged is a very one-sided way of looking at
it, as the "privilege" comes with lot of responsibility that quickly becomes
burdensome. With affordable home appliances, online services through your
phone, video games, Netflix, and PornHub, the house wife/husband is obsolete.
Why take on the same burdens your fathers did when little to none of that
existed?

With wages being stagnant since the 1970s, the ridiculous housing market, the
materialist debt-slave culture, the decline of marriage, and the decrease in
sustainable jobs, why exactly should millennial(and increasingly Gen Z) men
bother working as much as their fathers? I come from a very wealthy area and
only one of the dozens of men my age, with whom I grew up with, own what their
fathers did when they were their age. Millennial men are rife with
disenfranchisement that flies under the radar because the economy has enough
shit jobs to allow them to scrape by, and the media is generally not
compassionate to the issues of men. I mean, just look at this article which is
clearly written as an underhanded criticism of young men.

Let me repeat the question in the last paragraph:

 _Why exactly should millennial men work as much as their fathers?_

~~~
ben_jones
I'm looking at a $400 bill after insurance for a 15 minute doctor's visit.
Nothing fancy he took my blood pressure and listened to my lungs and sent me
on my way. I'm fortunate that I can easily pay this, but what if I was living
paycheck to paycheck? It would crush me. When wealth is so fleeting as to be
taken away by such a minuscule stroke of bad luck, why would people bother
chasing it?

I'm literally going to have to "shop around" for my next appointment should I
need one.

~~~
lawn
There surely is a middle ground here between living paycheck to paycheck and
not making work the most important thing in your life.

~~~
geezerjay
For those that don't have the luxury of having an education combined with
training in a relevant skill, that middle ground is just wishful thinking.

~~~
ravenstine
Or minimalism, which is becoming a trendy topic on places like YouTube for
that reason.

~~~
geezerjay
> Or minimalism

No, not really. Economic constrains are the real issue. It makes no difference
if a person decides to live spending less if he is never constrained by what
he can afford. On the other hand, if someone needs something (say medical
care) but can't afford it then there's a problem.

~~~
sli
Minimalism doesn't really buy you a whole lot when just rent is already half
of your paycheck, anyway. There likely just isn't much left to cut. The things
I already own don't add to my cost of living, I already own them.

------
patient_zero
This article was pretty bad. "Hot" labor market huh? isn't it mostly low
income service jobs and degree required jobs that are "hot"? I wouldn't know
from this article, because it chooses to ask questions rather than provide
info.

I weep for the one young man who is studying to be an EMT. I learned recently
that that job, which is tasked often with saving lives, pays ~12 bucks an
hour. The "hot" labor market is a farce.

~~~
rootusrootus
EMT is entry level, though, and you are basically competing against a
workforce where most people have gone past that to become paramedics. Not to
say that a paramedic salary is all that lucrative itself, but it's about 10K
higher than EMT.

------
Phrodo_00
While the article did a lot of pointing at men not working, it did little to
show what the Hole in the "Hot U.S. Market" was. Maybe the people they were
talking about would benefit from that information.

~~~
bargl
There are a TON of Blue collar jobs that are only getting higher pay in the
Seattle area right now. Entry level Electrician, 25/hr. After the
Apprenticeship 50/hr (2 years I think). I believe plumbing, construction, etc
are in the same boom right now.

That's a really awesome job for someone who is struggling to make ends meet at
a pizza joint (example from article). This is 100% anecdotal and regional. So
take it with a grain of salt.

~~~
barrow-rider
Similar prices to be had around NoVA / DC. Data center electricians with 2
years experience were at 35/hr, and the Master electricians with experience
were roughly double.

No shit, I was a data center manager then and contemplated switching jobs.

Source: I hired both union and non-union (union guys on the side) for
electrical work in DC area data centers.

------
Alex63
Some interesting things in this article. Given what appear to be changing
attitudes to men ("long America’s economically privileged gender"), is this
situation really surprising? When one considers diversity and inclusion goals,
hiring more men seems like a lower priority.

I was also amused by the comment, “I’m very quick to get frustrated when
people refuse to pay me what I’m worth.” This seems like a conversation I have
at least once a quarter with someone. You're worth what the market is willing
to offer you, not what _you_ think you are worth.

~~~
ehrtt
> You're worth what the market is willing to offer you, not what you think you
> are worth.

This is an absurd statement, the market is not a god. It does not have a value
system.

~~~
geezerjay
> This is an absurd statement, the market is not a god. It does not have a
> value system.

The word "market" is just a convenient tag to refer to a collection of
individuals like you and me looking to buy/sell goods and/or services, and
deciding what's best for them given the choices available, their priorities,
and the information they have.

Thus, when anyone refers to what "the market is willing to offer", they are
referring to what the individuals like you and me who are shopping for a
good/service are actually willing to pay in exchange for it.

Are you willing to pay a philosophy major a 70k/year salary for him to
research a topic? No? Neither is anyone else. Thus, in short, the market for
philosophy research is not willing to pay for that.

~~~
ehrtt
Yeah, but there are two sides to that (voluntary) transaction. The person
bidding for labor and the person offering their labor. If the buyer and seller
can't agree then the transaction doesn't take place. The value of the labor is
subjective.

~~~
Alex63
Yes, and no. The value we place on our own labour is subjective, and the value
that a buyer places on our labour is also subjective. You may value your labor
at $100/hour, and if no one agrees to pay that price that doesn't mean you are
wrong, it just means that there's no market for your labour at that amount.

At the same time, we can say that there is an objective value for labour of a
certain type (I'm thinking of commodified labour), which is the going market
rate. Just as there is, at any given point in time, an objective value for a
share of Apple Computer.

------
justfor1comment
The millennial generation is also the first one in history to have mass
exposure to the success of others due to social media websites. This could be
a reason they want to seek better opportunities than the minimum wage jobs
available to them. Retraining in schools does seem like a reasonable approach
to pursue such better opportunities. Don't feel like millennials are in the
wrong here.

------
shagie
The part that made me wonder about the millennials in their job search is:

> Butcher has a high-school diploma and a resume filled with low-wage jobs
> from Target and Walmart to a local grocery store. He’s being selective as he
> searches for new work because he doesn’t want to grind out unhappy hours for
> unsatisfying compensation.

I believe that having a job that you love is a luxury. It is something to look
at once basic needs are met.

There are jobs out there, and even jobs that train entry level in a trade. No,
it may not be the job you love... but as Stephen Stills said:

> If you're down and confused And you don't remember who you're talking to
> Concentration slip away Because your baby is so far away

> Well, there's a rose in a fisted glove And the eagle flies with the dove And
> if you can't be with the one you love, honey Love the one you're with ...

That doesn’t mean one should love that unsatisfying job, but recognize that
not everyone will have that dream job.

~~~
fatnoah
>He’s being selective as he searches for new work because he doesn’t want to
grind out unhappy hours for unsatisfying compensation.

I think this is a large part of the issue here. I only have my experience
employing millenials to go by, but they're a group that seems to be less
focused on compensation and career advancement than generations before them.
They're version of the American Dream is also different than generations
before them. It's not get job, make money, get a house, have kids, etc.
There's nothing wrong with any of that. Society has changed, and the economics
have changed.

I graduated college in 1997 with $30k in debt, which was a lot at the time.
Now, that'd be below average. I was the only one of my large group of friends
that didn't own a house within 5 years of graduation. Contrast that with the
cohort of millenials I've managed, and I don't think a single one out of
several dozen have owned their own home. It's either not a high priority or
seems so out of reach when student loans and the high cost of ownership in
this area (Boston) come into play. Sure, they could maybe buy a place in
suburbia, but again that's a smaller priority than in was before them.

My tl:dr; for the article is that they're less willing to work "just because"
and have different goals than generations before them, and that's hard for
people to grok.

~~~
shagie
Judging by various new grad looking for a job forums for CS that I've seen
(and yes, that is self selecting to a particular set), it is either someone
hyper focused on compensation (has sent out 1000 applications... 100 to each
of the top 10 tech companies, looking for a job that pays significant six
figures for a new grad) or is looking for a place where they will feel needed
and can change the world.

I've seen the "I've been looking for a job for six months and a recruiter
contacted me about a position at {finance, defense, public sector, back office
retail}, but I turned them down because I don't want to work in that
industry."

Sometimes its a "you keep saying that you're looking for a job, but you aren't
applying where there are openings."

I've worked big tech before the layoffs in '09\. Since then I've worked back
office retail, GIS logistics and now public sector... I won't say that any of
them are jobs that I would say that I love (they aren't the dream job), but I
am able to find meaning in them and enjoy the work that I do because there are
hard problems to solve. When I was looking for a job, I took my time picking,
but I didn't say "no" when they had an offer and I was unemployed.

One of the things that the line that I mentioned above...

> Butcher has a high-school diploma and a resume filled with low-wage jobs
> from Target and Walmart to a local grocery store. He’s being selective as he
> searches for new work because he doesn’t want to grind out unhappy hours for
> unsatisfying compensation.

Switching jobs every few months trying to find one that is satisfying means
that the next employer isn't going to invest as much to train that person and
isn't as likely to chose that person for promotion to those higher paying jobs
within the company.

One may claim that they value their (in this case just a high school diploma
job) at $40/h, but if they can't produce $20/h of value for the company, well,
they're not going to get hired at $40/h.

Follow your passion (that seems to be something many millennials have as their
version of the American Dream sounds great... but really should be "Find the
hard work you're willing to do" (see
[http://www.cs.uni.edu/~wallingf/blog/archives/monthly/2018-1...](http://www.cs.uni.edu/~wallingf/blog/archives/monthly/2018-10.html#e2018-10-21T09_53_29.htm)
)

------
specialp
"So for now, the Pittsburgh native and father to young children is living with
his mother" In the past that wasn't so much of an option. You had to survive.
I grew up with parents working jobs like the one he eschewed. They wouldn't
dare try to live with my comparatively much more wealthy grandma.

So now living with your parents into your 30s is like taking basic income.
This is all fine if someone is truly doing this to invest in more education to
get out of the unskilled labor market, but bad when it is just an excuse to be
lazy. I too worked low wage jobs when I was a teen and in college to pay my
way, I find that when people leave the upward trajectory by leaving school or
their job for "something better" they end up becoming lazy and end up worse.

~~~
ams6110
Don't know why you're downvoted. It's very easy for a person to rationalize
sitting at home by telling himself he is holding out for a job that will "pay
what I'm worth" but not doing anything concrete to make that happen.

When I was in my late teens/20s I never thought moving back home was an
acceptable option. Working at McDonalds or delivering pizza and living with
roomates felt more honorable than moving back in with my parents.

~~~
fatnoah
IMHO (and I emphasize that), the main difference is that when I was that age,
getting a job, making money, and being independent were my goals. For the
younger generation, they came into the world at a time of economic turmoil and
skyrocketing student loan costs. By the time things recovered, housing markets
in many areas were back to the races before they could catch up. Throw in more
of an emphasis on doing, making, and experiencing things, and hustling for a
buck is less of a priority.

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thrower123
Is there a good explanation for the bar chart that shows labor force
participation being down or flat for just about everyone other than young
women and old men?

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sol_remmy
I know a bunch of beautiful, accomplished women with great jobs who can't find
good men to start a family with. Young mens' failure-to-launch is becoming a
big problem....

~~~
icedchai
Maybe men are smartening up. They don't want to be saddled with a divorce,
alimony, child support, or several hundred thousand in college tuition costs
down the road.

~~~
supertrope
Both genders. Raising kids is expensive. Student loans are retarding marriages
and house purchases.

~~~
seiferteric
Good point. I wonder how many people out there look at a $12/hour job and
realize they can't afford to live off that after loan payments. Maybe they are
holding out for something better, or perhaps are exasperated and given up?

