
Sitting All Day: Worse For You Than You Might Think - matth
http://www.npr.org/2011/04/25/135575490/sitting-all-day-worse-for-you-than-you-might-think
======
forgottenpaswrd
Am I the only one in hacker news that does not sit down at all at work? We are
bipeds designed for standing on our two foot and moving from a while.

I have lifeguards friends that talked to me about the change in the body shape
they have seen over the years, especially women as the spend more and more
time sit down in front of the computer.

So I decided to change, it took months to get used to it as all musculature
had been trained by years to sit down as since school time and on kids-adults
are forced to sit down.

I had worked as a teacher for kids and is really really interesting HOW THEY
OPPOSE AND RESIST sitting in the same place without moving. One day we had
strong hail storm out there and the principal-director forced us to keep kids
inside on playtime. Other teachers forced kids to sit on their chairs so they
could count and control them easily. The next class I had the kids almost
exploding under their desk with painful anxiety. So I let them stand up and
move as they wish while I was giving my class!!. It worked wonderfully.

If I sit I use a Bar Stool, but I'm standing up 90% of the time. My computer
is in front of my eyes. I love it.

If you try it, CAUTION, it will take time for your musculature to adapt, at
least a month.

~~~
efsavage
Well, we're really designed to walk/run. Sitting at a bar school or standing
still all day comes with its own set of health issues (not saying if they're
equal or not, but they're present).

------
singular
I don't mean to sound facetious, but aren't we designed to also sit as well as
stand/walk/run? That's what the buttocks have evolved for, after all:-

"Physiologically, the buttocks enable weight to be taken off the feet while
sitting" [1]

Of course, having said that, we probably weren't designed for the amount of
sitting a typical officer worker does, and certainly weren't designed for
being sedentary.

[1]: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buttocks>

~~~
singular
Well, not surprising that was down-voted, but seriously - if somebody contends
that we're 'not designed for X', yet we have actually evolved to be able to do
X, I think it's reasonable to point that out, even if the fact is that we do
too _much_ sitting down.

~~~
shpxnvz
While it may in fact be true that we evolved to able to sit, the sentence you
quoted is in no way evidence of it. A link to supporting evidence, or even a
well reasoned argument, would go along way towards backing up your claim.

~~~
singular
It was indeed an (uncited) quote from a wikipedia article which is hardly the
same as concrete evidence :-)

Regardless, it is certainly the case that we have evolved to be able to sit
comfortably and take weight off our legs - that, I think, is indisputable.

I would argue that the buttocks provide a structural base for the weight of
the body which would otherwise be transmitted through the upper parts of the
legs more so than they are in reality. That is something of a guess, however.

------
lpolovets
I am not going to disagree with the article or dispute that sitting all day is
not as healthy as occasionally moving around, but does anyone else feel like
this is the latest "health scare" meme? It reminds me of how leg embolisms on
long flights were the focus of attention a few years ago. (i.e. completely
absent from the news at first, then an overabundance of stories once a single
scientific study is published.)

~~~
maxxxxx
It's definitely a real issue. I have been working at a desk since my 20s. Now
in my 40s my legs go numb after sitting for a half an hour. The problem goes
away when I am on vacation for a few weeks. I bet a lot of health issues would
go away if people could spend less time sitting.

~~~
mgcross
Same with me. 41 and never had a problem sitting until about a month ago. Left
leg goes numb and/or hurts. I do pretty intense strength training at lunch 4
days a week, but it's not enough. I now have to get up and walk more during
the day or even alternate between standing at my desk and kneeling.

~~~
maxxxxx
Same here. Left leg goes numb. Daily exercise of around one hour can't
compensate.

------
postfuturist
This sort of 'science writing' is infuriating:

"Specifically, he found that men who reported more than 23 hours a week of
sedentary activity had a 64 percent greater risk of dying from heart disease
than those who reported less than 11 hours a week of sedentary activity. And
many of these men routinely exercised."

Well, is he controlling for those who exercise or not? If not, then what is
the point?

~~~
niels_olson
As a physician, I find NPR is generally good at addressing issues at a level
the average person can understand. No one is claiming the NPR article _is_ the
study. They do link to the studies in the text.

As for controlling for exercise: the whole point of the article is that
researchers are finding that outcomes are at least reliably associated (with
or without causality) with sedentary activity, that is, specifically measuring
the amount of not-doing-anything-physical.

The Warren study very specifically looked at driving and watching TV as it
relates to cardiovascular disease. In the introduction, they specifically
address your contention:

============

Sedentary pursuits represent a unique aspect of human behavior and should not
be viewed as simply the extreme low end of the physical activity continuum.
For example, several studies have demonstrated that excess TV viewing time,
independent from overall physical activity levels, is adversely associated
with metabolic risk factors (18)

[ed: ref 18 is Hamilton MT, Hamilton DG, Zderic TW. Role of low energy
expenditure and sitting in obesity, metabolic syndrome, type 2 diabetes, and
cardiovascular disease. Diabetes. 2007;56(11):2655–67.]

============

~~~
carbocation
I've written to NPR previously about errors that I've found in their
presentation of clinical trials and invariably they respond with, "Well, this
is our interpretation." Nevermind that said interpretation would get them
laughed off of the wards at any teaching hospital. Not saying that about the
current article--merely pointing out that even NPR gets it egregiously wrong
sometimes.

------
kleiba
_[...] he found that men who reported more than 23 hours a week of sedentary
activity had a 64 percent greater risk of dying from heart disease than those
who reported less than 11 hours a week of sedentary activity_

Wow, there are people who sit only 1.5 hours per day on average? I spend more
time sitting on my way to work and back alone.

~~~
andrewjshults
If it's self reported (which seems to be the case from the article, I could
imagine that people reporting under 11 hours might be using different criteria
for what they really consider sedentary activity compared to those that report
over 23 hours a week. I fall closer to the 11 hours a week (standing desk,
bike to work, bar height dining table at home) but agree that even with all of
that it'd be rare that I'd be sitting for less than 1.5 hours a day
(especially factoring in weekends).

------
Someone
I think varicose veins are evidence that standing up all day isn't what we
were evolved for.

Looking at chimps, gorillas, orang utan seems to conform that. In my limited
knowledge, those species spend hours sitting or lying down.

=> I would guess it is not the sitting, but the sitting for long stretches in
the same posture that is the problem.

~~~
oconnor0
Interesting. What research is there on people standing all day getting
varicose veins and the negatives of that versus sitting all day and the
negatives of that?

~~~
cormullion
Plenty of anti-standing information here:

<http://www.hazards.org/standing/index.htm>

------
andrewvc
Maybe this has no basis in reality, but one reason I stopped cycling as a
primary form of cardio ( I run now ) is I just felt wrong moving from sitting
at a computer to sitting on a bike.

~~~
beaumartinez
So don't sit on your saddle—take it off. (Bonus reason: saddles {with a nose}
also cause erectile dysfunction; I don't have any sources at hand but I'm sure
if you search you will find).

~~~
mjallday
It appears you're onto something with the erectile dysfunction. Apparently
however, it's not that common and you can get seats that minimise the issue.

[http://bicyclehabitat.com/articles/saddle-seats-and-
erectile...](http://bicyclehabitat.com/articles/saddle-seats-and-erectile-
dysfunction-the-myth-exploded-pg97.htm)
[http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/cyclingworkouts/a/BikingI...](http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/cyclingworkouts/a/BikingImpotence.htm)
[http://www.webmd.com/erectile-
dysfunction/news/20050825/stud...](http://www.webmd.com/erectile-
dysfunction/news/20050825/studies-link-bike-seats-erectile-dysfunction)

------
brown9-2
The New York Times magazine published a longer article on the same subject a
few weeks ago:
[http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17sitting-t.h...](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17sitting-t.html?_r=1)

------
ck2
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2450170>

Between this sitting-is-death and the sugar-is-death, there should be tens of
millions of dead office workers who died before 60 in the past few decades.

~~~
arn
well, heart disease is the number one cause of death.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_causes_of_death_by_rate>

------
rbxbx
Related article: <http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39523298/ns/health-mens_health/>

Previous HN discussion: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1834671>

ps: standing desk :)

~~~
shii
Also see: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1311857>

------
DanielStraight
I'm only one data point, but I felt significantly better in two or three days
after hacking together a sit/stand desk. I can point to specific aches, pains
and other minor medical issues that I simply no longer have now that I divide
my time between sitting and standing.

~~~
SomeCallMeTim
I'm another data point. Built my own standing desk and bought a drafting
chair; I frequently stand most of the day, and it's improved my posture
markedly.

I'd gone through a series of various expensive "ergo" chairs, and yet I would
get a feeling of suffocation when sitting for too long. Now I can work for
extended periods without the need to "get up and walk around."

And when particularly good music comes on the radio, I can dance to it during
compiles. Yes, I work in an office where no one can see me. ;)

------
vehementi
Is there data that excludes obese people?

------
LarryA
I'm totally all for having recess, and we need more playgrounds for us older
kids. :-D (Imagine the recess scene in the spoof movie Fatal Instinct)

To that - with my hours cutback at work I now have a home office with a
standing/sitting desk now, it's great.

------
nzadrozny
I love my stand-up desk, which I hacked together from an Ikea Galant:
<http://flic.kr/p/9kYneT>

Total cost: around $200.

------
jaysonelliot
I'm lucky, I have a shelf in my office that happens to be perfect standing
height for me. I decided to put my laptop on the shelf when I came in this
morning, and give it a try.

My office: <http://yfrog.com/h7m5ajhyj>

So far today, I've gotten far more done than a normal Monday morning, and my
energy level is way up.

This could be good.

~~~
city41
I'm two weeks into my standing desk experiment. If you stick with it, you're
in for some discomfort. My legs adjusted quickly, the bottoms of my feet are
still toughening up.

The problem is my current standing desk only allows standing. I'm 100%
committed to standing if I am working. That's fine 95% of the time, but there
is that 5% (like after I've worked out for the day or already put in 10+ hours
of standing but found I need to get some emergency/last minute stuff done)
where I really do not want to stand.

After two weeks I feel like my conclusion is the ideal desk is one that can
easily adjust between standing and sitting, but stand most of the time.

~~~
georgieporgie
How about a standing desk with a taller chair for the times when you need to
rest your lower half?

------
yewweitan
Shameless Plug for a piece that I wrote that talks about some of these issues
and more importantly, their practical resolution.

'Should I get a Standing Desk?' - [http://www.yewhealth.com/2011/04/03/should-
i-get-a-standing-...](http://www.yewhealth.com/2011/04/03/should-i-get-a-
standing-desk/)

------
proponentia
Explanationless science always gets into difficulties.

That said, I suspect that watching TV all day everyday _would_ kill a person,
eventually, _because_ thinking without a break depletes the CNS of resources
which would otherwise be used to regulate the body.

(Note: TV watching is a kind of externally driven thinking. More draining than
thinking about the show would be the guilt thoughts caused by watching TV all
day given that our culture believes (a) that watching too much TV is bad, and
(b) that productive work is good.)

However, it's misleading to claim that sitting around all day is unhealthy.
For instance, you won't get a heart attack if you are a Buddhist Monk sitting
in meditation.

Also, _moving around all day_ would kill people, eventually, by similar means
and for similar reasons to TV watching. For example:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dancing_Plague_of_1518>

~~~
minsight
"For instance, you won't get a heart attack if you are a Buddhist Monk sitting
in meditation."

There's a claim that I won't buy without some sort of a citation.

~~~
hugh3
I googled "died while meditating" and found this dude:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luang_Pho_Daeng>

who not only died while meditating in a lotus position, but supposedly failed
to decompose afterwards. (I don't know whether it was a heart attack
though...)

------
a5seo
I've started using the Pomadoro technique, 30 mins focused work and 5 mins of
"break" (there's more to it, but that's the gist).

I'm going to make a real effort to use those 5 minutes to walk around and do
something instead of look at lolcats from now on...

------
teyc
Standing all day in a single spot can be pretty tiring too. A footstool can
help a little, but it is probably best to have a mix of postures.

------
benihana
>Those who were sitting more were substantially more likely to die

That has to be the stupidest quote I've ever read. Are you telling me that if
I sit less often, I'll be less likely to die?

------
ramblerman
Is that third cartoon doing a boogy?

------
j_baker
I don't see any evidence that this is causation and not just correlation. I'd
believe that people who sit more are at higher risk for heart attack. But I'd
also argue that those people are more likely to get less exercise.

~~~
msluyter
But didn't these studies control for exercise?

 _But now, researchers are beginning to suspect that even if you engage in
regular exercise daily, it may not be enough to counteract the effects of too
much sitting during the rest of the day._

~~~
assiotis
That is not what the researchers suspect. The article misquotes the study. You
only have to go as far as the abstract to find: "Regardless of the amount of
sedentary activity reported by these men, being older, having normal weight,
being normotensive, and being physically active were associated with a reduced
risk of CVD death."

