
The Illegal Ramen Vendors of Postwar Tokyo - raleighm
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/how-did-ramen-become-popular
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jpatokal
Not mentioned in the article, but Japan occupied/colonized large chunks of
China before and during the war: there were close to a million settlers in
Manchukuo alone, plus up to 1 million Japanese soldiers in the China
Expeditionary Army. For those returning to Japan, wheat noodles and rich soups
would not have been a new taste.

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rangibaby
Ramen (Chinese noodles) were introduced and popularized by Chinese immigrants
in Meiji-era Japan.

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kurthr
Yes, they were popular as far back as 1860. I think the Kanji 拉麺 means pulled
wheat (Chinese) noodles, but many of them are cut which confuses me. Modern
Japanese Ramen comes from the early 20th century (~1912?) and is distinct
because the broths were much lighter flavored (like miso, shoyu, or pork bone)
and less funky than those traditionally from China. The latest trends in
Tsukemen ramen challenge this tradition as they go for stronger flavors.

~~~
rangibaby
AFAIK other than the name the Japanese dish ramen doesn’t have a whole lot in
common with Chinese la mian.

There is a ton of food around the world that has Chinese roots but isn’t a
direct analog to any Chinese (country) dish. For example Tenshinhan in Japan
or Chop suey in the US

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ggm
There was an existing soup/noodle culture. There was a black market and
structures to divert central planning into commerce. It was a marriage made in
heaven. I think the best Ramen I've had was either down the end of the toden
line or out Shinjuku by a jr station

~~~
inferiorhuman
> There was an existing soup/noodle culture.

The article covers this. Wheat noodles and a rich broth were new.

> I think the best Ramen I've had was either down the end of the toden line or
> out Shinjuku

Menya Musashi and Fuunji are both generally very well regarded and about a 5-7
minute walk from the SW part of Shinjuku station.

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denimnerd
we went to menya musashi tonight

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inferiorhuman
The wine-braised pork at Menya Musashi is amazing, but I don't recall thinking
the rest was really that noteworthy. Fūunji is worth trying for the very
different style of ramen -- the broth is chicken and fish based.

~~~
denimnerd
Thanks we went to Fu unji and it was great too. My wife got the dipping
noodles and I got the regular. I did like the pork at menya musashi a lot and
the overall flavor of Ichiran the most though. Can’t believe I got some random
shinjuku advice when I just happened to be visiting.

Annoyingly some other americans next to us at Fu unji were complaining about
the pork in the ramen.

~~~
inferiorhuman
Sadly I've only spent a few days in Shinjuku, and those were the only two
ramen joints I hit up. Fūunji is definitely known for their dipping noodles
and that broth. If memory serves, Menya Musashi has a rotating menu so that
can be fun.

My favorite of that trip was actually the Kio chain in Osaka (cold noodles and
beer on a warm summer day were perfect). There are a ton of great resources
for sussing out good ramen in Japan, thankfully.

What noticed though was that while all the ramen I tried was better than what
I've had stateside, each ramen shop would typically nail one or two things and
the rest would be good but not amazing. I never did find an egg as well cooked
as I have in the Bay Area.

Also right by Shinjuku, the French bakery was pretty darn good.

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classichasclass
Hokkaidō ramen. That's the stuff. Find a Santōka near you and thank me later.

[http://goinjapanesque.com/05425/](http://goinjapanesque.com/05425/)

[https://www.santouka.co.jp/en](https://www.santouka.co.jp/en)

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throway32
Japan's turn from a predominantly vegetarian diet to one that is almost anti-
vegetarian, is very interesting. Eating out in Japan is generally a nightmare.

~~~
ur-whale
"Eating out in Japan is generally a nightmare"

My experience has been the exact opposite. Japan is (with Singapore) one of
the best place on the planet to eat out.

You might want to mention what kind of dietary restrictions you're subjecting
yourself to before making such broad claims.

~~~
Sniffnoy
The comment seems to imply that the person posting it is vegetarian; I'm
pretty sure it's meant to be read in the context of that implication.

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dmix
Nice to see some proper research and citations from an internet article these
days... Fascinating article too.

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lovemenot
A few years ago I watched a street performance in Ochanomizu: a post-war
Japanese spiv, wearing a wide pin-stripe was selling bananas.

Apparently in Japan now, banana-selling is one of the strongest stereotypes of
post-war capitalism - for all its good and ill.

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Markoff
introduced by Chinese but it's interesting noodles (soup) as street fast food
ain't THAT popular in China

i don't think noodle dish would first come to mind when thinking about Chinese
cuisine

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contingencies
If anyone knows an expert on Japan (or other non-Chinese Asian nations')
noodle typologies and preparation, please put them in touch. We aim to open
300 robotic service locations across three markets next year.

~~~
krapp
You're planning to disrupt noodles in Asia?

Good luck.

~~~
contingencies
No, we're planning to feed hungry high density urban consumers noodle and soup
cuisines in existing high demand with more availability, choice, consistency,
time-efficiency and profit margin than manual competition, plus complete
personalization support on every order. Think "take-away noodle restaurant
minus overheads", 10-20x faster than delivery options, cheaper and closer to
the consumer. We're located in the largest province of the largest market in
the world, and on track for launch next year in HK/Macau/China. Currently
raising Series A with commitments @ $125M pre and accepted in to YCSS advisor
track.

~~~
jpatokal
At any _tachigui_ (standing-only) soba shop in Tokyo, you can get a bowl of
noodles made to order and customized to your liking from around 200 yen ($2)
and delivered in approx 30 seconds:

[https://digjapan.travel/en/blog/id=11660](https://digjapan.travel/en/blog/id=11660)

There are many opportunities for disruption in Japan; this does not seem like
the easiest or most profitable one.

~~~
contingencies
Sure, there are high volume, low cost, single dish restaurants out there.
Obviously that's not our focus, even though if they can do it at $2 we can do
it cheaper and closer to the consumer, in their language, with full support
for personalization, 24x7x365. Traditional food retail suffers from the
following limitations: relatively high startup cost (real estate location,
rental, renovation, fit-out, licensing), relatively high recurring overheads
(staff, management, inventory management) and internal processes unsuitable
for specific requirements (religious, medical, lifestyle or other specialist
diets, plus other forms of personalization), typically limited hours due to
reliance on staff, limited languages of service staff, food safety issues due
to human preparation. In short we have enough USPs in enough areas that we
don't have to compete on cost - the industry is vast - and if a single
location fails to grow adequately we can literally move it within an hour or
two.

~~~
UncleEntity
> ...and if a single location fails to grow adequately we can literally move
> it within an hour or two.

And one would imagine there'd already be a noodle stand sitting there since
they've had ~80 years to find the optimum spots (going by TFA).

Brings back memories of when they opened a Taco Bell close to the Humboldt
State campus and then had to hire 24/7 security to protect it from the anti-
corporate vandals who didn't appreciate having tasty tacos within walking
distance from campus. I can certainly imagine the mobile robonoodle stands
will suffer many an unexplained breakdown when they try to displace another
noodle stand.

~~~
contingencies
As an outsider it is easy to severely underestimate the dynamism of mainland
Chinese urban environments. Also, according to a recent international study by
HSBC mainland Chinese consumer enthusiasm for technology adoption is off the
charts versus all other countries surveyed.

While resistance to vandalism is a design consideration with any public
facility, mainland China has extremely small rates of petty street crime
relative to, say, the US or UK. Besides, our business model is not "displace
another noodle stand" but "serve frustrated demand wherever it exists" which
is typically somewhere else.

