
The Unique Weapons of Ancient Japan - Thevet
http://www.tofugu.com/2015/08/07/katana-rocket-launchers-unique-weapons-ancient-japan/
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digi_owl
Ah yes, the Japanese weapons.

A pet theory of mine is that they get so much attention because the Japanese
held onto feudalism far longer than the colonial powers. As such, the colonial
representatives attached some romanticism to Japan and the Samurai.

Something similar laid the foundation for the troubles Iraq has faced to this
day, if Adam Curtis is to be trusted.

[http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/entries/2989a78a-ee94-...](http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/entries/2989a78a-ee94-385e-808f-c9c7c38d1cb7)

~~~
Zikes
Is it not also possible that they get so much attention because they are
genuinely interesting?

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dragontamer
They are genuinely interesting in part because they're "Far East" and seem
foreign.

With that said, knowing Western designs of weapons is also extremely
interesting. The progression of simple sword -> sword+crossbar -> sword+
crossbar + ring guard -> Rapier -> Basket-hilted sword says a lot about
Western Martial Arts (aka: Fencing).

At some point, people figured out that grabbing the crossbar was more
comfortable and more precise. So additional protections needed to be added to
the top of swords (finger-rings / sweepings).

The full anatomy of the Rapier is astonishing. Every part of the weapon serves
a purpose.

Even then, Rapiers were mostly status symbols for the rich. Weapons of War
were far more simple and practical. (Well... not always: Landsknechte
Zweihander == lulz. They probably discontinued that weapon because it was too
expensive, heavy, and unweildly. But man, what an awesome looking sword )

~~~
pherq
Zweihanders/montantes/whatever you wish to call them were extremely effective
and not nearly as heavy as you might think. In general, even the largest
swords didn't weigh much more than about three kilograms (and thus were
lighter than rifles and some polearms), and the hands were far enough apart
that you had enough leverage to move quickly. If you poke around on youtube
for people sparring with such weapons you'll see that they're as quick as most
other swords (and have an advantage in reach).

On the article itself, while it's a nice list, it perpetuates some myths about
the weapons in question (e.g. that katana was in someway superior to western
swords -- high quality specimens on either side would probably be pretty
closely matched), and has some fairly glaring admissions (e.g. the yari
(Japanese spear) which was one of the most common weapons among footsoldiers
for a good deal of Japan's history).

~~~
dragontamer
Agreed for the most part.

I guess Zweihanders were ultimately still "too short" for real warfare though.
Practically speaking, by the late 1500s or so, people only used Halberds and
Polearms (ie: English 18-foot Pikes and whatnot). So perhaps it is more
accurate to say that Zweihanders were not "unwieldy enough". In any case,
Zweihanders only saw use in a period of one century or so... from the late
1400s through the mid 1500s.

With that said, Pier Gerlofs Donia's Zweihander was 6.6kg (~15 lbs) and 2.15m
(7 feet) long. Zweihanders definitely could go above and beyond 3kg.

As far as Yari, yes, that is the most glaring omission in the article.
Fortunately, the Naginata (arguably a kind of Yari) has representation.

~~~
pherq
Assuming the sword attributed to him is actually a war sword (not a ceremonial
one), and noting that he was apparently superhumanly strong and large...

As for the disappearance, I think it had more to do with improving firearms
making heavy armoured shock troops impractical, and armies becoming much
larger things mostly composed of musketeers with relatively limited training
(rather than the smaller armies of very well trained professionals like
landsknechtes). The pike disappears fairly soon after, when infantry switch to
using bayonets to ward off cavalry.

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crdb
A fantastic graphic novel that covers these and others (such as the bell
warden's third son's sajinrai [1] in vol. 4) is Lone Wolf and Cub, which was
written by amateur Edo historians and effectively cemented them as legends of
the manga community.

It is a great work which inspired many others including Frank Miller's Sin
City and Ronin, and Collins' Road to Perdition. I personally think that it is
on par with Watchmen (arguably the greatest graphic novel, and one that tops
most lists) - certainly no other works had the same impact. Perhaps because it
is in black and white, very long, and originally in Japanese, it's nowhere
near as famous.

[1] "a blinding compound comprised of a mix of ferrous sand and strychnine
nitrate"

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sdrothrock
Some notes:

\- You may be familiar with tetsubi in the West as "caltrops."

\- I've seen yawara for sale on keychains and cell phone straps for young
women.

\- The sasumata still exists today, minus the nasty barbs around the haft;
every public school has one or two to be used for subduing intruders. I was
(un?)lucky enough to participate in a drill once -- they did a pretty good job
of subduing me and pinning me down!

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sfjailbird
I shudder to think of living a life where I would have to employ weapons like
these.

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dragontamer
Ancient Weapons of Japan are definitely interesting... as are weapons around
the world in general!

The most interesting to me are the various non-lethal (erm... less-lethal)
weapons that have been invented. The less-lethal weapons around the world give
insight into the minds of Police across all ages.

Today's weapon of choice for Police is the Police Baton... which is basically
a Japanese Tonfa. But seeing the Japanese Jitte, Sai, Kusarigama, Manriki-
kusari, and Sasumata... you can see how Police from previous ages were focused
on:

* Bashing (Tonfa, Manriki-kusari)

* Disarming (Jitte or Sai)

* Binding (Kusarigama or Manriki-kusari)

* Pinning (Sasumata)

\----------

Western Society had Armor (ie: Gauntlets) for catching weapons. Armor in
general is also a major advantage in grappling / pinning foes. I'm not really
aware of any weapon explicitly built for disarming... since a Knight could
always just grab the Peasant's Sword with his gauntlet.

But the "Anti-Peasant Weapon" has always been the Mace or the Flail in Western
Cultures. Both are similar in concept to the Tonfa and Manriki-kusari: smack
people with a blunt object. The goal is subjugation and intimidation. Spinning
weapons (Flails) are intimidating but ultimately less lethal than a Sword or
Spear.

Knights and Soldier statues use swords and spears: weapons of war.

While statues of Kings and Princes are armed with Flails and Mace: symbols of
"less lethal" weapons of law enforcement.

All weapons tell a story. The Kuwa (Japanese Hoe), Kama and Kunai are peasant
tools... and tell a story of inventive rebellion. Seeing a master Kuwa or Kama
fighter says that "anyone can fight, even lowly farmer peasants... even with
farm tools"

Much like Pitchforks and Torches, except Japanese Martial Artists have honed
the peasant weapons into a martial art in of themselves.

The Polearms tell a story of the horrors of battle. The multi-point Halberd is
shaped to stop a horse (spear tip that widens to stop momentum), pull the
rider off a horse (hook), and break shields (axe).

Japanese Yari are similarly diverse as western polearms. The different Yari
designs give the greatest insight to warfare in Japan. (I bet you the Jumonji
yari was used to stop charging horses. The massive crossbar is there for a
reason).

Hozu hi Yari and Kama Yari are similar to Halberds, in that they are clearly
designed for "single weapon / multiple uses".

Just some food for thought.

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scentoni
Disarming: Sword breakers
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parrying_dagger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parrying_dagger)

~~~
dragontamer
Interesting. And it looks almost the same as a Sai / Jitte as well.

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some1else
They didn't mention bo-shuriken[1], which is a spear-shaped throwable metal
"dart". The throwing technique is in some ways similar to the way a katana is
swung. A circular motion, taking the hand behind the wielders shoulder and
unrolling straight in the opponents direction. As there is no rotating motion
involved, these are short range projectiles. The ones I saw were top-heavy and
had tail feathers. Checking the YouTube videos, some users instruct a more
knife throwing grip. However, the technique explained to me was leading with
the back hand side, releasing the dart from the palm[2] towards the end of the
motion.

[1]: [https://www.google.com/search?q=bo-
shuriken&safe=off&hl=en&b...](https://www.google.com/search?q=bo-
shuriken&safe=off&hl=en&biw=1376&bih=761&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAmoVChMInazwoa6exwIVChUsCh0s9Q57)

[2]: [http://cl.ly/image/012R0D1W0t3T](http://cl.ly/image/012R0D1W0t3T)

~~~
bunderbunder
It's a difficult method of throwing to learn, but if you can master it it has
the advantage that you don't have to worry as much about distance to the
target. With the traditional spinning throw, you need to make sure the knife
will reach the target at a point in the turn where the blade is pointed toward
it.

I think it's probably a much more appropriate throw for use during hand-to-
hand combat. My understanding is that the shuriken was primarily intended as a
weapon swordsmen could use to gain an advantage by distracting their
opponents.

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venomsnake
> Japan’s most famous weapon needs little introduction. Japanese blacksmiths’
> method of repeatedly heating and folding the steel made a katana’s sharpness
> and strength unique among the world’s swords.

And you can stop reading here. The author probably has not done due diligence
on his research.

~~~
JimmyM
I think that people are downvoting you because they're not sure what you're
getting at or have an issue with tone, as I think I know what you are
referring to here:

[http://www.thearma.org/essays/hype.htm#.Vchr7RNViko](http://www.thearma.org/essays/hype.htm#.Vchr7RNViko)

The Japanese blacksmiths' method of repeatedly heating and folding the steel
was actually a way of countering the poor quality of the raw material they
had, according to some other sources I've read but cannot find right now.

I assume that you didn't include this information because you know a lot about
the topic and thought it was all common knowledge, but I'm not sure that it
is.

~~~
Steko
So I downvoted the comment mostly because it was dismissive of the entire
article seemingly for the terrible crime of ... not going out of it's way to
mythbust the 'Katanas Are Just Better' trope? I think the article as a whole
was interesting and even if you concede parent's point on forging (see below),
the rest of the article had a lot of information.

Also is the article even wrong? The forging does create a very sharp edge
(your own citation and other ARMA articles like Katana vs Longsword [1] go
into this) and yes a very hard core. Yes the primary point is to remove
impurities but why does the article become worthless for glossing over this, a
point which is likely not interesting to casual reader looking for basic info
and pictures of new weapons?

[1] [http://www.thearma.org/essays/longsword-and-
katana.html](http://www.thearma.org/essays/longsword-and-katana.html)

~~~
venomsnake
It was perpetuating the trope actually. Not not mythbusting it.

Forging does not create a sharp edge. The micro structure that gives sharp
edge is created during the heat treatment.

~~~
Steko
This seems excessively nit picky. Is the 'heat treatment' technically part of
the forging? Technically no but for the layman's idea of forging it probably
is ok to say yes.

Did that one line in the article perpetuate the trope? In the sense that it
means 'merely wielding a katana makes one a superhuman fighter' I would say
'clearly no' but in the sense of 'katana is the coolest sword' perhaps. Did
katanas have world renowned sharpness? I would say yes. World renowned
'strongness' (which can have a lot more meanings)? Notsomuch.

~~~
dragontamer
Damascus Steel is cooler... and probably sharper and stronger.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_steel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_steel)

Its basically the Katana folds, except you can explicitly see the folds
between multiple kinds of steel. Damascus Steel is also the stuff of legends,
because it is literally a technique lost to history (although people claimed
to have reverse engineered it).

Furthermore, some evidence points that true Damascus Steel had carbon
nanotubes and cementite nanowires strengthening the blade (possibly created
through the unknown ancient forging process). Not bad for Steel made in the BC
eras.

[http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/28/science/28observ.html?_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/28/science/28observ.html?_r=0)

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neotrinity
Woah ... pressure points (Nardi) is the same in Tamil too ! South Indian
martial art form covers the use of Nadi (pressure points/nerves) to
disarm/disable opponents. I think this would have reached Japan from mainland
China. Also some research and folklore suggests that Bodhidarma was in fact a
Pallava Prince who went to China and spread the marital art forms. However
hard evidence is quite scant esp. in India.

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FroshKiller
That is not the word "nardi." It's the name Nardi, as in Thomas Nardi, the
author of a magazine article cited as a source at the end of the post.

~~~
neotrinity
Hmmm. I might have got over excited there! Should have become suspicious when
google din't give me anything related to "Japanese + nardi"

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norea-armozel
The Tekkan and Hachiwari remind me of warhammers and claymores that were used
against armored opponents in European warfare. It seems once you rely on armor
someone has to always figure out a way to deal with it. In Europe, it was the
"spam in a can" approach that won out. The hachiwari looks more like a "peel
the shell" approach. Either way it seems to be an effective approach.

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edem
Very impressive. I was not aware that ancient Japanese weaponry were
so...thorough.

~~~
ekianjo
Medieval weapons in Europe were very thorough as well but they don't talk
about it as much.

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mhd
Swords and bows are unique? Edo period is ancient?

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Eleutheria
Hey guys, off-topic and forgive me beforehand but I know there was an article
about ramen and soups very similar to those in that page a month ago but I am
unable to find it not even in google.

If any kind soul knows the url it'll be greatly appreciated. I love japanese
food in all its presentations.

Btw, that site rocks for japanese info.

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brokencup
A Guide to the Regional Ramen of Japan ?

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9622949](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9622949)

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eifskdlcmrs
Zatoichi's cane sword is not listed.

