

Ask HN: In college, how much did you care about grades? - confuzzled

I have been looking at my grades for this year, and they have been extremely disappointing. I'm a bad test taker, but I'd be lying if I said that was the only reason for my sub 3.0 GPA. I didn't have the motivation to do well in tests because I didn't see the point in them; especially classes that are just requirements and uninteresting. 
Don't get me wrong, I do love learning. It's just that I hate being "tested" like a lab rat. I know for a fact that I am hazy on details about things I learned 2 years ago, so what would be the point of testing? At the same time, there is tremendous social pressure to do extremely well. I know so many people who would freak out about a "B", and I have gotten much worse grades than that. :(<p>So HN, how did you do in college? How much did those grades affect your life?<p>edit: Added a little bit more detail
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aaronbrethorst
I _barely_ graduated with a 3.0. The interesting thing about the grades I
received in classes was that they tended to be a lot higher when I got to take
advanced undergrad or graduate-level classes than Freshman-level required
courses.

My first employer couldn't care in the slightest. They were interested in my
past work and experience, and how well I did in the interview. None of my
subsequent employers have ever mentioned anything about my education.

My recommendation: don't kill yourself over grades, but do as well as you can.
If you _never_ find any of the material interesting, then you may have a
problem with your selected major.

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jamesbritt
College, the beta version, I didn't care about grades. I was only taking three
classes (French, English Comp, and Music) and ended up only paying attention
in French class. Came in handy when I decided to go to Paris that summer.

Some years later I read Soul of a New Machine, got excited about studying EE,
and managed a partial scholarship to NYIT.

I cared about _passing_ , and cared about learning (most) stuff, so I mostly
got good grades. Switching from EE to CS helped. :)

My enthusiasm sort of petered put after a while, I started lowering my course
load (school + work was getting hard), then dropped out for bit then went
back, but nine years later I graduated with honors and an award from the the
English department.

I had wicked great English profs, and a few really good CS teachers. Most of
the time teachers would let me slide on assignments if I otherwise
demonstrated understanding and the ability to apply what I knew. So I had some
fun. Had one math prof who gave me a C even though I swear I never got more
than 30 on any test. But I was the only one in class who asked intelligent
questions and could make useful observations. (Thanks, Dr. Vitale!) Sadly, I
sucked on the tests.

Did the grades matter later in life? I doubt it. I think all that mattered was
that I had a degree. Might be wrong, you never really know, but I don't recall
too many people being impressed. Once you get a job all people care about is
what you're doing right then and there, not some college grade.

Overall I think you should learn as much as you can for its own sake, which
often leads to good grades anyway.

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maxharris
I cared very much about my grades in undergrad, and I ended up with a very
high GPA. So far, I'm glad I cared as much as I did.

Will your grades matter after undergrad? That depends on what you want to do.
It will hurt a bit if you go to grad school (your undergrad grades matter for
getting grants). It'll hurt a lot if you want to go to medical school (but you
can still get in to some schools if you bring your GPA up somewhat).

Do you have a project or set of projects that demonstrate ability? If I had to
choose between two people, and one had demonstrated his abilities with great
code/art/etc, I'd pick him over the guy with nothing but grades. However, if I
had no other metric to measure you by other than grades, I'd pick the guy with
better grades.

If you want high grades, you have to push everything else aside and focus on
doing well in your classes, and not taking on more than you can do well in any
given semester. If you can't do that, quit school for awhile. Do something
great in the meantime so that you have something to show _to yourself_. Self-
esteem is something that can't be faked, or given to you by others. You have
to _earn_ it yourself. Either way, don't do anything halfway, because that's
just a recipe for the same mediocrity you're inflicting upon yourself now.
It's not too late to turn yourself around.

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blatherard
I went to a state-related school, so maintaining a high GPA was pretty easy. I
don't think my grades ended up mattering much to anybody other than me after
college, but at the time they helped. I was able to take advantage of some
opportunities during my undergraduate years that required good grades. I got a
fellowship to do undergraduate research, and a two-year full scholarship from
the math department in my last couple of years. At the least, I saved a fair
amount of money.

So, judging from my experience, I'd advise you to keep an eye on the current
financial effects of your grades. Otherwise, I wouldn't sweat it. Unless
you're planning on staying in academia, or applying to grad schools.

I do have one additional piece of advice, which you can feel free to take or
not take. It makes sense for a high schooler to resent testing, since you are
forced to attend. It doesn't make sense for college student, because you're
there of your own free will. Saying "I hate being 'tested' like a lab rat"
indicates that you're not approaching college as the voluntary experience and
opportunity it is. Losing that residual resentment might help you with some of
your motivation and performance issues.

~~~
confuzzled
Thanks for the advice. I do not resent tests by themselves. For e.g. I'm fine
if you are continuously tested throughout the year. However, I have an issue
with a test that is 40% of your grade, and is just 3 hours. It could render
your quarters work useless if you messed up.

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zerohp
I never went to college, but I felt like you do about my high school grades.
Now that I've spent 15 year in industry, on the other side of the table
interviewing college graduates, I know that I haven't given up anything verses
the _average_ college CS graduate.

In spite of this I'm looking to start going to college for the first time this
fall. While I believe the average college CS student has no advantage over a
motivated self-starter I think those who really strive to achieve their best
and take advantage of the resources available to them will end up ahead of the
self-educated. So now that I look back, I believe that attending a good
college and putting forth 100% effort will give me both personal satisfaction
and afford more opportunities than I would have available to me otherwise.

What I'm trying to say is: if you don't care about performing as well as
possible, you're not getting much of a career advantage from going to college.
On the other hand, if you strive for your best you can open up opportunities
that you'd never be able to reach otherwise.

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fezzl
_I know that I haven't given up anything verses the average college CS
graduate._

Except...

~~~
maxharris
Except what?

~~~
fezzl
Ability to spell, maybe: <http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/verses.html>

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hansy
Honestly it depends on what you want to do

If you are looking to go into the non-CS corporate world, grades matter a lot.
This is primarily how companies will screen applicants. However, based on my
personal experience, my grades weren't stellar either, but I managed to
compensate them with other pretty cool things like starting my own clubs,
working a ton of different jobs, being active in the community, etc.

In my personal opinion, grades are a poor indicator of personal achievement.
Just be sure to do something substantial on the side to make up for your
grades.

Oh and regarding the "social pressures" of doing well, fuck everyone else.
It's your life, not theirs.

Edit: Someone else mentioned grades are a measure of work ethic, which I will
agree upon. However, if you can show your employers where you spent a majority
of your time (and why the alternative is worth investing in over school work)
then it should be OK.

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argimenes
To be honest, I cared quite a lot about getting a relatively high GPA and was
upset if I scored below 5.25 (out of 6). I don't think that standardised tests
are good in themselves but they help keep a student intellectually honest.
Some people will tell you that grades don't matter, a creative person reads
freely and off the curriculum -- and that's true. But indulged too much it can
weaken your intellectual discipline, which you desperately need on any
ambitious project (especially a self-driven project).

You've got to love what you do but you've also got to DO it when you don't
love it. I think the best thing is to strive for both: learn your own way,
read what you want, but also push yourself to pass these exams. If you just go
off and do what you want, scraping by academically, how can you be really SURE
you were honest with yourself, that you weren't just making excuses?

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colson04
I think that you're strategy is a little off here. The classes that are just
requirements and uninteresting to you should be the 'easy A' picks. For basic
requirements I always looked for a class or professor that was known for an
easy A - other classmates and sites like myedu.com (formerly pickaprof)can get
you started. Conversely, save the real work and effort for classes that you
are interested in or ones that you think will be most beneficial to you after
you graduate. For these classes intentionally pick profs that you know will
expose you to the best knowledge, even if they're not the easiest. I think
this gives a good balance while in college and sets you up well for your
professional career.

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Abscissa
I never cared one bit about grades my entire life (despite constant prodding
by teachers and parents), and my grades ended up all over the place.
Consequently, my GPA was pretty bad (Not that I remotely remember what exactly
it was).

I've never once regretted any of that. (In fact, the only thing I do regret
about college is ever going in the first place. Colossal waste of time and
money. Libraries are a far more effective and vastly more economical form of
education. Never forget: Post-secondary education is _big_ business.) One you
leave the overrated academic ivory tower, nobody will ever give half a shit
about your GPA, and for good reason.

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veyron
At the end of the day, grades really reflect work ethic. No secret here.

No one can say in retrospect whether or not grades affected life. It's one of
many factors, and no one can say "me | 4.3 GPA" would have had a different
life from "me | 4.2 GPA" or "me | 3.2 GPA"

~~~
hansy
This is the one thing I'll agree about with grades: they do reflect work
ethic. But sometimes, it really is hard to get motivated about subjects that
seemingly have no bearing on one's future.

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unshift
i kept a 3.2 which was exactly enough to maintain my scholarship. CS was a
difficult major at my school and a lot of larger, easy classes suffered from
grade deflation. a lot of times i decided to just take the B in classes i
didn't care about.

i also did a lot of CS group projects on my own which led to a lesser grade
but better learning experience. i put a lot of effort into learning material i
was interested in and got good grades in those classes.

post college, my GPA has had absolutely zero effect on any facet of my life.

~~~
confuzzled
So if it wasn't for your scholarship, you wouldn't have cared about grades?

~~~
unshift
i probably would have regardless because i've been conditioned that way all my
life, but i wish it wasn't the case. i'd have had a hard time dealing with
getting a C, but looking back i wish i spent less time doing busy work for
dumb classes and more time doing other things like chasing girls and having
fun

the fact is i could have worked my ass off for an A in french class, or
writing, or whatever, and years later i wouldn't remember the material
regardless because i didn't care about it at all. in the classes i did enjoy
and did want to do well in, the material stuck with me (partly because it's my
job)

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petervandijck
I cared much more about figuring out what to do with my life (1) than grades.
Never had good grades, never hurt me, seemingly. Then again, it's hard to say.

(1) and girls

