
Norway – An Inside Perspective (1986) - pmoriarty
http://www.robertpriddy.com/Nos/Nor1.html
======
erlend_sh
I'm Norwegian and I find this to be a fascinating read. I don't want to
comment on the content until I've read it all the way through. I just wanted
to say that I would __love __for this to be a live document, kept up to date
on a platform like GitHub. I wish I could see what those 2015 changes were.
And it 'd be even more amazing if you did another revision in 2035.

~~~
pmoriarty
Don't miss part 2:

[http://www.robertpriddy.com/Nos/Nor2.html](http://www.robertpriddy.com/Nos/Nor2.html)

that goes in to a lot of detail on other aspects of Norwegian society as the
author saw it.

I'd love to hear your reaction and that of other Norwegians. How accurate or
fair is the depiction? How does your perspective differ? Would you have
anything to add?

~~~
messo
I'm a Norwegian (born mid '80s) and feel like this is a rare window into my
country's past. A lot of what I have learned at school and trough other
typical sources has never been able to give me a neutral and observing
perspective.

Remember, the young people of today (below 30y) has only experienced the oil-
fueled side of Norway, and a rapidly increasing globalized version of our
culture.

I have not read everything yet, but sure will!

~~~
Broken_Hippo
Most recent immigrants only know the oil-fueled side of Norway, actually. I'm
one of those, and found this reading absolutely fascinating. I'm probably also
somewhat lucky - my Norwegian mother in law and extended family fill me in on
some history. I did speaking practice in a nursing home, and learned quite a
bit from some of the residents, and had a few language teachers that taught a
broader view of Norwegian history in class alongside language.

I read some passages to my spouse (Norwegian) and he found some parts outright
funny, though he agreed with some as well.. though, our perspective probably
is slightly different as we are from the previous decade.

------
pmoriarty
This article really shattered some of my illusions about Norway being a
progressive utopia.

The accounts of human rights abuses, imprisonment without trial, judicially
condoned murders perpetrated by police, and their coverups and falsification
of evidence were truly terrifying.

The section on Norway's ill-informed and close minded drug war seemed to
mirror the United States, and was the very opposite of progressive.

On the other hand, the country's political and social egalitarianism (for
those compliant enough or fortunate enough to escape being victims of the
police) certainly seemed to be quite admirable in comparison to what I know
about most other countries.

It would be interesting to find out how things have changed since the article
was written.

~~~
chrisseaton
What does progressive really mean? If you think drugs should be legalised then
relaxed drug laws are progressive to you. But if you think drugs must be
eliminated then maybe you would think that harsh drug laws are progressive
towards that goal? I'm not really sure 'progressive' means anything then.
Anyone except literal conservatives not wanting to change anything thinks that
the changes they want to make are in order to make progress towards a better
world.

~~~
mantas
Who is literal conservatives though? If they're the ones who want to keep
status quo, then center-left would be current europe's conservatives. The
traditional right-leaning conservatives would be kinda progressive at the
moment..?

~~~
pmoriarty
The accusation towards conservatives which want to change the status quo is
usually that they're being reactionary -- usually trying to change society
back to some idealized, mythical "golden age" that never actually existed, and
to bring society back from the ashes of moral decay to some kind of ancient
purity (of "blood", race, ethnicity, culture, or nationality).

~~~
mantas
If that golden age never existed, wouldn't that technically be progress?

~~~
pmoriarty
The golden age may not have existed as a reality, it reflects old ideals that
did exist -- especially for those of certain privileged classes, sexes, and
races, and to the detriment of the rest. That's why they're opposed and called
regressive or reactionary by progressives.

I'm sure conservatives would consider it "progress", but I doubt many of them
would want to adopt the term "progressive" to their cause, as that term has an
anti-conservative connotation. And certainly those who do label themselves
"progressive" would not call that "progress" but "regress".

Also, it should be pointed out that the golden age that conservatives often
refer to did not exist _as they describe_ , but aspects of it did exist in a
much seedier and painful form.

For instance, the golden age that some conservatives paint of the institution
of slavery being a benefit to and desired by slaves -- that did not exist. But
slavery and slaves did exist. Those conservatives that do favor slavery would
have us go back to a slave-owning society, and would paint a rosy picture to
convince those gullible or uneducated enough to think it would be a good idea,
or to try to give themselves a fig leaf of respectability or deniability.

~~~
mantas
So it's just a label for leftists. Even if they are being conservative at the
time.

Fun story. During the collapse of USSR, a local band wrote popular song that
had a line saying "conservative idiots strangled us in wires". Later on, most
of independence movement formed Conservatives party. As in, the word itself is
party title. Song quickly dropped the "conservatives" word :)

------
digi_owl
Dear deity this is an old one...

~~~
dang
Historical material is warmly welcomed here, and some of the best posts we
see. Interesting historical material that hasn't appeared on HN before is
particularly great.

We've added 1986 to the title, although the author says he updated the article
in 2015.

~~~
digi_owl
While the document may be labeled 1986, much of what he described was from the
50s-70s. And quite a bit of it is no longer valid, thanks to changes pushed
both from above and below.

~~~
dwc
Hopefully people will take the age of the writing into consideration. As
someone who has learned about Norway over the past several years, it was very
interesting to read this account.

