
A customer recounts Solar City/Tesla installation hell - wil_wheat_on
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10103428251702903&id=207923
======
Animats
Belongs on #InternetOfShit.

It shouldn't need an Internet connection. Adds a point of failure. It might
have one, but it shouldn't _need_ it.

Tesla is sending some of their battery units to Puerto Rico. Will they work
with the network down?

Tesla FAQ: _" Powerwall needs internet (wired Ethernet or your home Wi-Fi) or
cellular service to communicate with the Tesla mobile app and receive software
updates. A reliable connection is required to provide new product features
over time. Powerwall can function if the connection is temporarily lost but
should not be installed in a location without internet or cellular service."_

~~~
ukulele
This is a bit unfair -- charging / discharging / safety on that scale in a
home should be actively monitored and managed, otherwise you end up with real
danger a few years down the road.

~~~
Animats
That's what local alarms are for. Green, yellow, and red lights, and a message
display, both on the unit and remotable to the house, should be sufficient. If
you want remote maintenance, you go to the unit and push the "remote
maintenance" button, and _then_ it phones home, if it can. The service it
connects to probably won't last as long as the device. "Cloud" services seem
to have a life of about 5 years. Sometimes less.

~~~
smsm42
> That's what local alarms are for.

Ideally, yes. In practice, people neglect them and then sue the company for
$millions if something happens because "they clearly should have made alarms
more prominent so I couldn't neglect them". Remote monitoring ensures there a)
independent record of what was going on and b) ability to monitor the system
and take proactive steps if something goes south.

That's not even getting into situations of how unreliable the users are in
reporting both what they did (the dreaded "I didn't do anything and it doesn't
work!") and what happens with the system (the dreaded "it doesn't work, fix it
NOW!").

If you install a complex system on user's side which requires maintenance (and
what system doesn't) you better have remote diagnostics or you'd be a very
frequent guest there. I don't see a reason why Tesla things would be
different.

~~~
sametmax
In practice, we have lethal systems at home already: the electrical system and
the hot water balloon.

They have been working fine for the last decades without an Internet
connection. We do have accidents, but compare to the incredible deadly danger
they pose, it's very low.

How ?

Well they have fail safes that disable the system when it enters a dangerous
state.

You should not need an Internet connection for anything essential in your
home. Certainly not for something that is marketed to take your "off the
grid".

~~~
smsm42
Well, the difference is boilers are old, and Powerwalls are new. People always
discount risks from old things and emphasize risks from new things. Thus, the
risk of being successfully ruinously sued for boiler manufacturer, if they
follow accepted industry practices and something goes wrong, are known, priced
in and probably not very high. The risks of the same for manufacturer of a
system that has no precedent, no established industry practices and no
experience of running it into home environment for decades is much higher. And
if something goes wrong, the first question that will be asked would be: why
didn't you create a monitoring system?

And, also, whoever made old systems has no option for remote internet
monitoring. If they were designed today, the option would probably be added.

> You should not need an Internet connection for anything essential in your
> home.

 _You_ don't need it. Tesla does. And you need Tesla if something goes wrong,
thus by extension you need it too.

> Certainly not for something that is marketed to take your "off the grid".

You can really be "off the grid" if you can maintain this system for decades.
Can you? How many of average citizens can? Given the newness of technology,
you'd probably will go to Tesla for fixes within couple of years for this or
that thing, and will repeat that several times over the next decade (if it
keeps working). You can manage that loop without internet connection, but the
fact is you and Tesla are working together for the life of the product, so why
make it harder? You can design the system that works Sneakernet-style, but
why?

~~~
sametmax
> Well, the difference is boilers are old, and Powerwalls are new. People

The legal and perception issues are a good point. Annoying, but I get it.

> And you need Tesla if something goes wrong, thus by extension you need it
> too.

No, what you mean is that they can get away with it, because among their
customer base, more people don't care that people that do.

> And you need Tesla if something goes wrong, thus by extension you need it
> too.

Trying to get "off the grid" rarely is extreme to the point that you cut
yourself from civilization completely. It's ok to have external help from time
to time. It's just that your daily operation should not depends on it.

------
westondeboer
My solar city installation of the solar panels was a breeze.

~~~
dotancohen
And nobody will report that because it is not "news". Therefore we will see a
disproportionate amount of bad installation experiences reported. Actually,
expect _all_ of the bad experiences to be recounted publicly, while the happy
majority stays silent.

~~~
oculusthrift
why do they have bad ones? they shouldn't. don't try to blame the media

------
ukulele
Sounds like the issue is stemming from the PowerWall (Tesla) side of things
more than the panel (SolarCity) side. Not surprising, since Tesla has been
more product & marketing focused and likely has some growing pains for
something as involved as a home installation.

It feels like this could still be in the window of two large-ish business
units coming together and working out the kinks (~9 months post acquisition),
so it will be interesting to see if more of these stories of clearly botched
service emerge or if OP is just unlucky on timing.

------
markatkinson
As a South African this just sounds like a standard process for doing anything
at all in this country. Took me 8 months to get a fiber line and several
strange holes in my wall.

------
testware
Lovely bit of fuckery. Customer support and ease of installation usually make
or break products. That said, Tesla is probably experimenting several things
by letting David be the Guinea pig.

------
eyeareque
I have a feeling Elon will be reaching out to fix this customer’s issue soon.
Hopefully this can help them fix whatever issues they’ve been having.

~~~
DannyBee
Errr. Seems infinitely more their style so far to use whatever data the
customer has given them to point out why it's entirely the customer's fault
that something happened.

~~~
smnrchrds
I have asked this question before on HN and did not receive an answer: Tesla's
level of access and handling of customer data scares me. Are there any car
manufacturers who respect their customer's privacy? Or does buying a car in
2017 mean I should expect my every move watched by the manufacturer and
available to them to use as they please without my consent?

~~~
DannyBee
I believe, sadly, it's the latter.

They are also required by law (IIRC) to include more and more invasive black
boxes in the cars anyway.

So i guess they figure they might as well use the data.

(I'm just waiting till my car says "Tired of stomping on the brake so much?
Maybe you should stop commuting and try UberPool!")

~~~
smnrchrds
I would be OK if the black box is just that: a black box. A data source that
can only be accessed via physical connection does not concern me. But 24/7
data transmission to manufacturer's severs is way too 1984 for my taste.

~~~
jlgaddis
I have mixed opinions about the "black boxes" in vehicles.

In theory, it sounds like a good idea but I learned recently that police can
quite easily download the data from them (via the OBD port) and apparently it
is common for them to do so when investigating accidents -- especially fatal
ones. AIUI, they are not required to obtain a warrant in order to grab this
data and that is my primary concern.

