
Obama sharply criticizes China's plans for new technology rules - NietTim
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/02/us-usa-obama-china-idUSKBN0LY2H520150302
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balabaster
I laugh at the blatant double standards held by the U.S. government here. They
want to do exactly the same thing in the U.S. with all companies, yet they
criticize China for wanting to do the same thing there? You can't have your
cake and eat it too. If you want China to drop that policy, then you have to
be willing to drop that policy too.

~~~
dharmach
The basic US premise is that we are the good side so the same rule for all
does not apply to us. Only police can have weapons not everyone.

~~~
balabaster
and we all knows what happens when you walk down that path... even if
benevolence is your goal, that's a dictatorship, not a democracy. You will do
what we say, not what we do. That's hypocritical and is the cause of things
like terrorist attacks.

If you want to live in harmony with the world around you, you have to _work_
to live in harmony with the world around you... with all the world's leaders
one team, working together for the good of the world. You can't have one in
there telling everyone else how they're going to act and then acting
completely contrary to that themselves. That's not how things work.

Have these people not seen Star Wars? That's what happens when you try and
control everyone. The U.S. is The Empire trying to enforce their will on the
universe... and the terrorists, as clumsy and abhorrent as they are, are
playing the role of the Jedi - except they're playing without honour or any
form of human decency it seems.

That's what happens when you enforce your policies on other nations who have
their own internal problems to worry about without you bitching about what
they are or aren't doing for you.

If the U.S. wants to stop being at war with terrorists, how about find a way
to give the terrorists an appropriate voice at the table. What is it they
want? Why do they want it? What are they hoping to solve by getting it? How
can the U.S. help them find a morally decent solution to their problems? Maybe
then instead of constantly making enemies, they can make some friends. Friends
are what you need when times are tough... and given U.S. unemployment, poverty
and levels of incarceration just now, I'd say times are pretty tough. They
could do with making some friends instead of just working to be part of the
popular crowd
[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes)].
It's about time to drop being the school yard bully throwing their weight
around and expecting everyone to bend to their will.

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gygygy
Wait, wasn't it his own government which decided to spy on their own people ?
Didn't he force his own country's companies to spy on his own people?

I used to like obama a lot. Used to...

~~~
shillster
He also said he was against warrantless wiretapping during his campaign.

~~~
NietTim
To be fair, people change opinions.

~~~
msandford
To be fair if you make campaign promises and then change your mind as soon as
you're in power it doesn't look so good.

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SeanDav
China is only trying to be upfront and public about things the US and Western
countries have been doing in private for years.

That is not to say I approve, (I do not) but my respect for Chinese
authorities just went up a notch. The good thing about this is that it brings
debate far more into the open and shines a light on some very shady policies.

~~~
kailuowang
The Chinese government never never really care about counter terrorism, all
they care about is keeping their power. To keep their power they need to
control their people's mind, to control people's mind they need to control the
internet. That's it. It's not about privacy, it's about free speech. Please do
not confuse this with the debate (about privacy) happening in the western
countries.

~~~
dragonwriter
The debate about online privacy vs. the government in the West is largely
about free speech vs. governments exercising total control to maintain power,
so I'm not sure what distinction you are trying to make.

I'm not saying that there isn't a very large difference in the current state
of China vs. the West in this area, but the _subject_ is the same.

~~~
kailuowang
In China the control over internet is simply control over people, there is
absolutely no benefit for the people - if you keep speaking against the
government without hiding your identity, you are in trouble. So, there is no
debate over whether more control from the government is good or bad.

In the West there is at least still a debate between privacy (potential impact
to free speech) and safety against terrorism.

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alfiedotwtf
It only took two people (Manning and Snowden) to remove any remaining
credibility left in US foreign policy. You almost have to feel embarrassed for
Obama and co.

~~~
tomp
Well, in reality, the two people that removed any remaining credibility left
in the US foreign policy are George W Bush and Obama. Dick Cheney and
Condoleezza Rice helped, though.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Come on, are Obama and W much worse than Reagan, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy,
Rossevelt? The US will keep using up the last of its credibility year after
year, and of course that just means it isn't.

~~~
jMyles
I'll bite.

Yes, in terms of foreign policy, I think that W and especially Obama have been
profoundly, historically, difficult-to-believe bad.

I'm not trying to downplay Iran-Contra, Gulf of Tonkin / Vietnam, etc., but
the last two administrations have taken what was unduly hostile (and
expensive) logistical capability around the world and turned it into Empire.

The needs, wants, representative processes, laws, and sovereignty of other
nations have reduced in relevance to the Empire's decision making process to
zero.

It's interesting you bring up Roosevelt: don't forget - that was an actual,
declared war - by Congress. So in terms of assessing foreign policy that's
different for sure.

By comparison, Obama has attacked no less than seven different countries in
undeclared wars. I think this is, as you say, "much worse."

~~~
seanmcdirmid
The last two presidents will always be the worst ones then? There was a lot of
shady stuff going on during W2 that makes today's situation look like child's
play.

The last 8 years have been relatively quiet compared to the 00s or 90s or 80s.
Historically speaking, I bet 20 years from now most of Obama's interventions
are mere footnotes, like Reagan's mostly are.

~~~
mkr-hn
It's hard to top putting hundreds of thousands of citizens in camps and
stealing all their property. And that's just if we limit it to the 20th
century to present.

~~~
jMyles
Of course that occurred to me, but I declined to mention it because it's not,
strictly speaking, foreign policy.

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higherpurpose
This appeared mere days after Yahoo's security chief told NSA's new boss, Mike
Rogers, that this is exactly what would happen if US, the "freedom loving
country", would push for backdoors.

NSA's chief brushed it aside as a non-issue, saying "I'm sure we can find a
_legal framework_ " for backdoors to work.

Well, here's your "legal framework", America - from China. How do you like it
now? Does taking your own medicine taste good?

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJZNvEPyjlw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJZNvEPyjlw)

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leke
Interesting how he 'sharply criticises' while it is his desire, and to a point
already an achievement, to do the same thing.

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rayiner
I disagree with Obama. Government computers have become national-security
critical infrastructure. No reason for countries not to roll their own, if
they can. It's one of the dimensions along which a country should be self-
sufficient, along with food and defensive military capability.

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LinkPlug
How many ways can HN say hypocrite?

~~~
yen223
This is a logical fallacy we always fall for: just because someone is a
hypocrite, doesn't mean he's wrong!

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xacaxulu
Did China put out plans for NOT monitoring all of their citizen's
communications? Because then the title of this story would make sense.

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ed_blackburn
I have to mirror the general sentiment of most posters. Nationstate's
criticising these measures are entitled to but in my opinion are committing an
act of hypocrisy. At least I am entitled to that opinion I suppose. Even if it
means I may be investigated for terrorism, without a warrant, behind my back.
The audacity of criticism.

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lgp171188
Classic case of pot calling the kettle black. Perhaps they consider themselves
to beyond all the rules like they are in their own country. Given the
standards they have set for themselves, they have to expect and deal with
other countries trying to do the same.

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gamesbrainiac
Oh the irony.

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crazychrome
"This is something that I’ve [p]raised directly with President Xi," Obama
said.

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shit_parade
It would be funny if it wasn't the fact that deranged, warmongering nuts like
Obama run America.

~~~
NietTim
Hm. I'm no particular fan of Obama, but warmonger? Why that? It's not like he
started a war for false reasons or anything like that, right?

~~~
mycroft-holmes
Continued wars. Drone strike killed an American citizen. Didn't close
Guantanamo. Engaged in new wars. If all this had been done under a president
named Bush the left would be outraged.

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mvip
Oh the irony.

