
The problem with foldable phones - nathcun
http://www.nathancunn.com/2018-11-09-foldable-phones/
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mxwsn
_" Ok, so let’s try instead to build the device from a tablet perspective. I’m
going to make one basic assumption: the tablet screen is primarily for
watching TV/film. I’m sure people will find other uses, but in terms of mass
appeal, surely that must be its purpose?"_

Is it just me or are square-ish resolutions pretty common and popular on
tablets? Just look at any iPad, the screen ratio is ~1.3 or 1.4 to 1.

I think the common sense answer here (which is ridiculous since we don't even
know what Samsung's real intention is), is a phone that's close to 2:1 and a
tablet that's close to 1:1. No big deal.

To speculate more: phones have widened to near 2:1 resolution not primarily
because of watching modern TV and film, but because that's the easiest way to
expand the screen while ensuring the phone is easy to hold. It also works well
with vertical scrolling activity.

~~~
nathcun
As I mentioned a 1:1 screen (if you want to watch your content in an assumed
18:9 native content) will at most take up half of the tablet screen. Meaning
your content will be shown at exactly the same size as the phone screen, just
rotated. Under the assumption that the tablet screen is just for media
consumption this gives no benefit.

~~~
ghostly_s
> Under the assumption that the tablet screen is just for media consumption

Why are you making this assumption?

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lsiunsuex
"Far be it from me to assume that I know what Samsung’s plans are with regards
this technology and I’m certainly not rubbishing the innovation, I just wanted
to clarify the basic maths that says these foldable phones just can’t be
bezel-free and in the form factor we expect from modern phones/tablets."

But you did though. We barely have a prototype to look at (short of the demo
on stage) let alone put a technology like that in the hands of Google or Apple
engineers.

There was no need for a smart phone, until there was. There was no need for a
tablet, until there was. Smart watch, smart speaker, and so on.

Version 1 is always crap and most (all) know that? Give it a couple
iterations, a little trial and error and you'll probably get your aspect ratio
or tiny bezels.

~~~
nathcun
"Give it a couple iterations, a little trial and error and you'll probably get
your aspect ratio or tiny bezels."

Did you read the rest of the post? I'm saying that mathetmatically those two
things are completely irreconcilable.

I'm not saying the phone will be bad, just that it is impossible for the both
the phone and tablet to conform to the form factor of a typical phone/tablet
that is out now.

~~~
lsiunsuex
Yes - I read the article.

Phones and tablets come in hundreds of different screen sizes. Ever see this
map?

[https://crossbrowsertesting.com/blog/mobile-
devices/android-...](https://crossbrowsertesting.com/blog/mobile-
devices/android-fragmentation-web-app-quality/)

There isn't a "typical" shape / size for a phone / tablet.

You can say an iPhone screen size when duplicated into 2 side by side does not
equal an iPad screen size, landscape or portrait and I'd completely agree with
you. But to say a new class of device won't have it's screen sizes and needs
to conform to screen sizes of the past... that just doesn't make sense. No one
conforms to screen sizes; past, present, or future.

~~~
nathcun
I know there isn't a typical size, but the trend has been towards taller
phones. The desire to keep to the aspect ratio isn't about conforming to old
phones but conforming to the aspect ratio that films/TV shows are in.

------
buckminster
The ISO paper sizes are a practical example of how you halve the area while
preserving the aspect ratio.

~~~
criddell
Is aspect ratio all that important?

I think articles like this one show a lack of imagination. When I think about
folded stuff in my life, I immediately think of a newspaper or a road map. I'd
love a display that I can fold an arbitrary number of times to get the size
that makes sense for what I'm looking at and where I am.

~~~
nathcun
I'm not saying "aspect ratios don't work, therefore the whole thing's a bust",
just that we should expect that one or other of the devices will be quite a
bit different from what we normally see.

~~~
criddell
There already are multi-screen devices. I could see a foldable screen being
put on a Lenovo Yoga Book and not changing it all that much.

~~~
nathcun
The Lenovo Yoga Book is quite different in the sense that the multi-screens
are never really viewed as a single form. One screen is more of an input
device, while the other is what we would usually see as a screen. I'm not
saying that the foldable phone can't do this, just that it's very different
from a "phone that folds out to have a bigger screen for watching media"
device that I've seen people expect these foldable phones to be.

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IshKebab
This is stupid. I don't think foldable phones are likely for a long time -
foldable screen technology is just _way_ off (sure you can have demos but try
folding and unfolding it 10,000 times and see how it holds up). We much get
foldable phones with multiple displays but there's no real technical challenge
there and still nobody has done it because it's not really what people want.

But aspect ratio is just not even remotely close to being a problem.

~~~
nathcun
Not saying it's a problem for development. I've just seen people ask why the
screens have odd aspect ratios.

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bryanlarsen
Phones weren't made taller to accommodate media consumption. For mass-media
consumption 16:9 is still the best size. Certainly there are movies at 2:1 or
even wider but they are the exception rather than the rule. They were made
taller so that they could have a bigger screen without being too big to hand
hold.

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pjc50
You could make a similar argument about the notch, because now the screen
isn't even properly rectangular - but that didn't stop it taking off and even
being added cosmetically to phones that don't require it.

Let's not forget that smartwatches are popular despite being square.

All sorts of things could be tried. The 16:9 screen that folds to 8:9 could be
like the Motorola Razr? Or you could fold it on the _other_ axis to produce
something like the Nokia communicator?

Hell, why not have _two_ folds? Popup book mechanics?

~~~
nathcun
Maybe my wording wasn't great, I didn't want to say the folding itself is a
problem, the problem is that the aspect ratios of the two are dependent on
each other, making unusual solutions like you mentioned necessary. Not that
that's a bad thing, but it is something that will require some creativity that
we don't need to consider normally.

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Moggie100
Honestly, I kinda like the square phone mock-up. It would be a little weird to
use as a phone, but perhaps there's a compromise to be made for the
pocketability of it all?

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howeyc
huh?? You have an 18:9 phone, you "unfold" it and you get 18:18.

Why would both the phone and tablet mode need to be 18:9, I don't get it?

~~~
nathcun
I've seen people comment on these articles asking why the aspect ratios were
so weird, and why not 18:9 for both? Perhaps, they were just joking, who
knows?

Regardless, an 18:18 screen can only show 18:9 content at the same size as an
18:9 screen can.

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criddell
Anytime I've read about foldable screens, I've been hoping for something
closer to the Microsoft Courier rather than a phone that folds out.

Phones are fine the way they are, but I think there's still a lot of
innovation waiting in the tablet space.

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PhasmaFelis
Any chance it could have multiple hinges?

A 16:9 (~1.78) phone, unfolded twice like a letter, would produce a 27:16
(~1.69) tablet. That seems pretty reasonable on both ends.

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new_guy
Obligatory image:
[https://vine.co/v/Ox2O9YbFTrX](https://vine.co/v/Ox2O9YbFTrX)

