

$80,000 for a Year Off? She'll Take It! - physcab
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/13/nyregion/13bigcity.html?_r=1&hp

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RyanGWU82
A friend of mine interned at Skadden last summer and has a job offer from them
to start this fall. He said that new graduates are being offered the same
arrangement -- a lump sum to postpone his start date by one year. He doesn't
think he's going to take it, for a few reasons. I don't blame him; I would be
really worried that the job would disappear over that year. They say it's
safe, but it seems a lot tougher to lay off existing staff than to lay off
someone who hasn't started yet.

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wallflower
I remember hearing about Skadden during the Clinton imbroglio. To get into
Skadden is probably like getting into D.E. Shaw

"The salary for a first-year associate (i.e., fresh out of law school) is
reported to be $160,000, not including the annual discretionary bonus.[25]"

"Arguably the most recognizable law firm outside the legal industry, the firm
is considered one of the most prestigious in the world, consistently ranking
in the top five of Vault's annual list of the top law firms in the U.S. and
boasting highly competitive foreign practices. The Skadden Fellowship, funded
by the firm, is considered the most prestigious public-interest grant in the
U.S. and is greatly sought-after by graduates of top law schools."

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skadden,_Arps,_Slate,_Meagher_&...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skadden,_Arps,_Slate,_Meagher_&_Flom)

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spoondan
Employers with a significant number of employees working under stressful
conditions should consider voluntary furlough programs, regardless of the
state of the economy. Vacation, as it is currently implemented, can increase
stress on these employees. If you're expected to clear the decks before you
leave, possibly handle important issues that arise while you're out, and deal
with a backlog when you return, vacation is very unattractive. A well-designed
furlough program can allow the employer to plan for available staffing and let
employees sanely decompress.

Such a program needn't be solely for saving money on payroll. (Obviously, a
partial salary furlough is only really attractive to well-paid employees.) A
good program would increase productivity and bring to the table fresher,
better ideas.

~~~
wheels
When I was at SAP there was a program where you could set aside part of your
salary for 6 months of paid leave after 5 years. Unfortunately you had to be
over 30 to claim it.

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kailashbadu
Why 30 Years, specifically?

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wheels
All I can do is guess: for most German professionals, that'd be within 5 years
of getting out of college anyway (Germans usually start college at 20 or 21
and it takes 6 years, typically.). It's possible that given that, anyone
younger than 30 was still seen as a "new hire" rather than "a career person".
Since I started there when I was 22 though it was rather a disappointment. It
might have kept me around longer, since after 4 years I wanted out -- but
might have stuck around for that break at 5 years, and then who knows
afterwards.

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kqr2
I guess Skadden thinks its economical to pay $80K as a retainer fee than to go
out and recruit the same people with equivalent experience in a year. Another
way to look at it is a generous severance package with an option to rehire.

The alternative is to lay off 2/3 of their associates.

~~~
notauser
Laying off people in a large organization is often very expensive, especially
if you only think you need to cover a temporary drop in demand.

\- Redundancy process fees including consultants.

\- Salaries for the length of the consultation period.

\- Stress and de-motivation in the retained workforce.

\- Severance or early retirement pay.

\- Recruitment fees and signing bonuses once/if the staff are needed again.

\- Loss of efficiency and experience of new hires compared to old staff.

I can easily see that coming to a lot more than $80k per post.

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softbuilder
It boggles my mind that lawyers make so much money.

~~~
jasonkester
$80,000 X 3 = $240k/year

At an industry standard 80 hours/week, that works out to $60/hr. I don't know
any good developers that would take a contract for only $60/hr. Do you?

~~~
geebee
That is a fair point - though I actually doubt that 80 hrs/week is standard.
There are those weeks, but they're not the norm. The lawyers I know (the ones
at the big first) work about 50-60 hrs/week. Still tough, but nowhere near
that bad. Unfortunately, this is all anecdotal, just what I've observed and
what friends have told me.

Also, the lawyer is not contracting - it's a job. I think plenty of developers
would take a job that pays 240K/yr for a 60 hr workweek.

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sanj
This is a very cheap way to figure out which associates aren't interested in
working hard enough to become partner.

Identify them for $80k and then let them go.

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run4yourlives
It costs that much just to hire a new person on average, I'd imagine it would
be even higher for lawyers.

Basically, instead of laying people off and re-hiring them when the time is
right, they're spending the capital up front to create a pool of "firm
approved" candidates. (It's not a flat 80K, it's 1/3 of salary - so cheaper
people actually cost less to rehire than it would to go through the process
after a lay off.)

Smart business running, but not exactly a great career move if you want to do
well there.

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dawie
I heard from friends that the Big 5 Accounting firms are making similar offers
to their employees. 1\3 of your salary for 3 months and you can take it off.

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sethg
Remember that a similar program for auto workers, the UAW's "jobs bank", was
held out as an examplar of union featherbedding.

~~~
jonknee
This is a private company for starters. The UAW jobs bank idea was forced by a
union not management and was simply a move to make sure no one was fired even
when it was cost effective to do so. They were paid between 85-100% salary
too, not 33%.

In this case they want to trim costs a bit but also want to retain the
employees. This will save money, not tank the company and require billions in
Federal emergency loans.

~~~
sethg
_The UAW jobs bank idea was forced by a union not management_

You misspelled "agreed to". Nobody pointed a gun at a CEO and made him sign
the contract.

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jonknee
Both sides made bad decisions, but when forced with the possibility of a
strike dumb ideas like the jobs bank get approved. Even without a gun.

~~~
yummyfajitas
Actually a gun is involved.

Suppose UAW workers fail to show up to work, and the CEO fires them and hires
replacements. In that case, men with guns show up and shut down GM (it's
illegal to fire striking workers and hire replacements).

Also, if negotiations break down, men with guns may show up and broker an
agreement (mandatory arbitration).

Unions, as they currently exist, are based very strongly on using threats of
force against non-union workers and employers.

The CEO of GM did, in fact, have virtually no choice in the matter.

~~~
MaysonL
_Suppose UAW workers fail to show up to work, and the CEO fires them and hires
replacements. In that case, men with guns show up and shut down GM (it's
illegal to fire striking workers and hire replacements)._

This is simply not true, at least in the USA. See for example:

[http://www.thefreelibrary.com/APPEALS+PANEL+VOIDS+PENALTY+FO...](http://www.thefreelibrary.com/APPEALS+PANEL+VOIDS+PENALTY+FOR+FIRING+STRIKERS.\(NEWS\)-a083903004)

and

[http://www.nytimes.com/1992/04/16/us/caterpillar-s-trump-
car...](http://www.nytimes.com/1992/04/16/us/caterpillar-s-trump-card-threat-
permanently-replacing-strikers-gave-company.html?sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all)

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banned_man
Painful read, because this offer's essentially a trap.

Law firms care beyond what is healthy about "professional image", at the
personal level as well as for the firm. Anyone who takes this sort of offer is
essentially penciling himself out for the best assignments and the partner
track. A 6th-year associate is going to know what she's doing and probably has
decided she isn't going to make partner, or doesn't want to do so, anyway. For
her, this might be a good deal. A first-year who takes a stipend to defer is
setting himself up for disaster. It looks really bad; it's a horrible way to
start one's career.

~~~
Retric
She is making 240k/year as an Associate and get's to keep 1/3 of it on her
vacation. I don't think most first-year prospects are going to be making that
much.

PS: If anything this could help you make partner by having something which
differentiates you from the pack. Assuming they do something interesting an
don't just sit at home for a year.

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sscheper
That's fascinating. The partner at my former firm was from Skadden. He said it
was a sweat shop. Sickening. It's good that they're doing something with a
little work/life balance.

Like most lawyers, after a while he found that money wasn't everything. Even
with his nice car, and house, he felt empty--he's now an entrepreneur and
loving it.

