
Inside the fight to reveal the CIA's torture secrets - secfirstmd
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/09/cia-insider-daniel-jones-senate-torture-investigation
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jimrandomh
When President Obama entered office, one of his first acts was to sign an
executive order to close the Guantanamo Bay prison. That order was disobeyed.

Congress published a report describing crimes against humanity committed
there, in great detail, naming names. No one who was named has been punished.

The CIA has exhibited a pattern of committing crimes against humanity,
interfering with attempts at oversight by the White House and by Congress, and
destroying evidence. One is left with the impression that it is not, in fact,
loyal to the Washington DC government in any meaningful sense, but in fact
exists only to protect itself while providing cover for sadists and other war
criminals. The president's and congress' failure to take strong action, to
outside observers, does not look like any sort of policy decision; it looks
like weakness and cowardice, from a government whose de facto power falls far
short of its de jure power.

~~~
spaceguest
There's also something like the anthropic principle at play here. Any type of
borderline policies that involved mild torture would likely be carried out by
the CIA. And they serve at the direction of the President. The CIA didn't
initiated these policies, they just fulfilled them.

Also it's not like every CIA employee supports torture. It's hard to say but
this scandal represents a fraction of what the CIA does everyday, that truly
serves the best interests of the American people.

They are easy to demonize by default.

~~~
krapp
>Also it's not like every CIA employee supports torture.

I feel like if you work _for_ an organization that tortures people as a matter
of policy, instead of _against_ it, then yes you support torture, at least
implicitly.

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tdfx
Most interesting to me was that the "junior CIA officer" who ran the most
infamous black site ("the Salt Pit") appears to be incredibly financially
successful in the 15 years since, presumably via continued government service
[1]. Just one of his multiple homes was apparently purchased for $1.3mil in
the Virginia suburbs outside CIA headquarters. Whether he made this money as a
blue badger or a green badger [2], it's still pretty surprising to see what
appears to be a career public servant raking in much more money than is ever
advertised on the CIA careers page.

To those who are aware of what goes on in these circles: did this guy actually
get rich working for the CIA? Is this commonplace in a post-9/11, contractor-
focused world? Or did this just inherit money from a rich uncle and his
sub-100k CIA salary is completely misrepresented by these articles?

[1] [https://theintercept.com/2014/12/15/charmed-life-cia-
torture...](https://theintercept.com/2014/12/15/charmed-life-cia-torturer/)
[2] [http://www.govexec.com/federal-news/fedblog/2007/07/green-
ba...](http://www.govexec.com/federal-news/fedblog/2007/07/green-badgers-vs-
blue-badgers/37686/)

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gragas
The CIA is one of the US' greatest assets. It's not going to be "exposed" and
go away. Sure, many of it's atrocities might come to light and the public will
be mildly upset. But the CIA isn't going anywhere.

~~~
Synaesthesia
All the basic human rights the USA enjoys has been won by popular struggle.
The abolishment of slavery, civil rights, freedom of speech, women's rights
etc. Similar things where said during these struggles for example, slaves are
"one of the US's greatest assets" and that slavery was "not going anywhere".

I see no reason why the popular struggle to improve human rights will not
continue.

~~~
gragas
You provide a good counterpoint, but I think slavery was nowhere near an asset
that the CIA is and has been to the United States (whether this has been a
good thing for humanity and human rights as a whole is another question).

The CIA has overthrown and installed numerous governments. It has forced
ideologies and laws upon people all across the world. It has turned many
_countries_ into mere puppets for decades at a time. [1]

Again, the CIA is by no means a humanitarian organization. It has overlooked
countless basic human rights to achieve its goals. It has unarguably shaped
the course of the history since at least the 1950s, and continues to do so.
But we're not going to have a civil war over the CIA.

1\.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Intelligence_Agency#Hi...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Intelligence_Agency#History)

~~~
Synaesthesia
I am aware of the activities and achievements of the CIA. I think you
underestimate slavery's importance to the US becoming a global agricultural
and industrial power. That's not really the point I want to make, but rather
that I think we could have a popular revolt against the CIA on a moral basis
if the populace were better educated and informed. Sure propaganda has been
enormously successful thus far but there's nothing preventing that from being
overcome eventually.

Maybe not soon,it may take long but still. The horror of slavery in the US
persisted for centuries but it still was eventually overcome. Same with
women's rights, it took centuries to overcome, eventually making substantial
progress by the 60's-70's.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Pedantic: From 1619 (first slaves in Virginia Territory) until 1865 is indeed
(two) centuries. But it wasn't the USA until 1776, so just about 90 years.

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joshuaheard
"Enhanced interrogation" was not "torture". Before starting the program, the
CIA asked the Justice Department to take the definition of torture from the
Geneva Convention, and design guidelines to exclude any such behavior from the
Enhanced Interrogation program. So, to call it "torture" in the headline, only
exaggerates the description of the program and demonstrates a bias in the
reporting.

~~~
sammorrowdrums
The Guardian is a British newspaper. In the UK we still consider it torture. I
think the UK has basically always reported it like this - we do not see eye to
eye on this topic.

Crucially, the CIA's aggressive covering up says something about the perceived
risk of the public and legislature knowing fully about this.

~~~
arethuza
Perhaps that reporting here in the UK was influenced by some of the horrors in
our own recent history - such as the military use of the "Five Techniques"
against UK citizens during the NI troubles:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_techniques](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_techniques)

~~~
secfirstmd
And collusion with Libyan torturers more recently

[https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/06/09/dispatches-still-no-
just...](https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/06/09/dispatches-still-no-justice-uks-
role-rendition-and-torture)

