
Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro - minimaxir
https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-for-macbook-and-macbook-pro/
======
bangonkeyboard
It's illuminating how predictable Apple is in these matters. The subhead of a
month-old article on one of the class-action lawsuits filed over this issue:

 _" Apple faulty product flowchart: Deny --> Get sued --> Admit --> Initiate
repair program"_ [0]

The next step is for the class-action suits to wither on the vine because
Apple can say it's providing relief.

[0]: [https://www.techspot.com/news/74772-apple-facing-second-
clas...](https://www.techspot.com/news/74772-apple-facing-second-class-action-
lawsuit-over-faulty.html)

~~~
cmurf
Then repair with the same substandard part that ends up failing again later.
e.g. 2011 Macbook Pro with the GPU problem.

I've got such a 2011 Macbook Pro, and it had a logic board replacement to fix
the GPU problem in late 2014 and now that logic board has failed with the same
problem.

~~~
bangonkeyboard
The program only covers "4 years after the first retail sale of the unit." All
Apple has to do is kick the can down the road until then.

~~~
IcePenguino
Four years seems like a reasonable amount of time to cover an issue. If it
fails after that, it’s time to buy a new computer anyway.

~~~
sumedh
> it’s time to buy a new computer anyway.

Why if your older computer is working fine and you are happy with it?

~~~
steve_musk
Don’t buy a new computer then...

~~~
sumedh
That is my point.

~~~
IcePenguino
And my point was that 4 years is completely acceptable amount of coverage. If
you want to keep your computer longer, by all means, but you shouldn't expect
repairs to be covered forever.

~~~
sumedh
> but you shouldn't expect repairs to be covered forever.

or you could design your products so that if it breaks, its easier for the
user to repair it themselves instead of advocating for throwing it in the
trash and buying a new product.

~~~
SmellyGeekBoy
Vote with your wallet and buy a ThinkPad?

~~~
DerDangDerDang
I have a Thinkpad from work and a MagSafe MacBook at home. I wanted to love
the Thinkpad so I don’t have to even entertain the possibility of being ripped
off buying a new MacBook in the next couple of years. It’s a great pc laptop,
better than most I’ve used. But it’s not in the same league as my old MacBook.
A lot of the problem is how the hardware works under windows - it just doesn’t
quite ‘click’. It feels disjointed and it’s really not enjoyable to use. I’ve
only had it for a few months so it may grow on me. But the trackpad is really
bad, like all other pc laptops I’ve tried. How on earth did they (Microsoft?
Lenovo?) decide dragging a single finger on the trackpad could sometimes be a
drag, rather than moving the pointer? Did anyone actually test it and decide
it was good? Or just ‘good enough’?

------
petecooper
Sometime computer technician here. I've replaced a few keyboards on some of
the earlier affected models. This is tedious, time-consuming repair with a lot
of small screws.

Here's a photo of the screws with a grain of uncooked rice for scale:
[https://imgur.com/gallery/En32MFP](https://imgur.com/gallery/En32MFP) (image
safe for work)

For most of my repairs, it worked out more cost-effective to purchase a new
MacBook top with keyboard attached, and just transfer the logic board, than
spend time unscrewing, fitting the keyboard and refitting the masses of tiny
screws.

On labour/consultancy alone, I suspect this will be an expensive per-case
recall.

~~~
volkl48
Among my many hats, I do some official Apple work.

What you are talking about is not allowed for work done under Apple.

The top case is one part which cannot be disassembled so far as they are
concerned. It contains the main part of the shell, the keyboard, the trackpad,
and the battery. A failure in any part of it is to be serviced by a complete
replacement of the top case.

It is not an exceptionally expensive component, but it is a significant amount
of labor. The top case is pretty much the "base" that all other components are
attached to. Which means you take everything else out (logic board, display,
fans, vent, etc) and move it to the new one.

Also, the touch ID bit is a bitch to move.

~~~
fyfy18
Maybe something like this will finally force Apple to start making their
laptops more serviceable.

After being an Apple user since 2006, I’ve just switched to a Thinkpad for my
home machine. Compared to a MacBook Air, the X series is only 1mm thicker, but
smaller in all other dimensions, including weight. Yet I can upgrade the
storage and memory, and replace parts myself that fail (the battery can be
swapped while it’s running). It also has a full array of ports including USB
type A & C, HDMI, headphone jack, SD card slot (the latest version has
replaced the Ethernet port with a dongle).

Admitidely they don’t look as nice, but I’m not really a design sensitive
person.

~~~
eksemplar
How is the trackpad? I intentionally bought a MacBook Pro late 2015 version
just before they went out of stock because I actually like all those “old”
ports, the old keyboard and so on.

I’d prefer to stay on os/x because Linux is still tedious in the way that you
have to configure it to make it tolerable and windows had gone from great (7)
to something that annoys me on a daily basis (10).

But I’m mainly scared of the mouse. The MacBook trackpad is damn near magical
and I’m not sure I could ever use a laptop with a trackpad that didn’t come
close to it. The price point and the design choices on the MacBook line as
well as it’s price point (price can be mitigated by buying older versions like
I did) have made me consider other options, thinkpads being the main
competitor. But how is the trackpad?

~~~
lloeki
A coworker got himself a T470p (I think), the trackpad hardware is fine,
albeit a bit small for my taste; the problem to me is more about how it is
leveraged by the software (OS) side of things: both Linux DEs and Windows make
visual feedback of multitouch gestures feel weird somehow. Maybe that's a
habit of mine being used to macOS though. I'm not overly fond of the
trackpoint, but that's a nice option and it's right on the home row next to
HJKL. I hate how the B letter is offset though, kinda ridiculous but I find it
a real eyesore and an aesthetic failure somehow.

~~~
Joeri
I have a t460p for software development, which is basically the same machine
as that t470p, and absolutely love it. It has workstation-class performance
with the quad core i7, 32 gb ram and dedicated nvidia graphics, all of which
can run full blast without throttling. But if I use it moderately it still has
all day battery life.

I almost never use the trackpad, preferring a mouse. I don’t like them even on
macbooks (I also have a macbook air for casual use). But it’s definitely worse
than macbooks.

I never noticed the offset b, but now that you’ve pointed it out to me it’s
going to bug me. Thanks. I do like the keyboard better than the air’s
keyboard. I haven’t used the new mb pro’s keyboard to any extent so can’t
compare, but I like a bit of key travel so probably would still prefer the
lenovo.

------
lando2319
I've been putting off buying a new laptop over concerns about the keyboard and
overall fragileness. I was debating ditching Mac for the first time in like
15years. This makes me more likely to choose Mac since they are admitting it's
a problem and they'll fix it out of warranty without question.

My big concern was getting the extended warranty and then having it break just
outside the warranty period leaving me stuck with a big repair bill.

Personally I still think they should make a 32Gig Memory MacBook Pro, that's
built like a tank, maybe it weighs 5+ pounds, who cares, people who want a
light fragile comp can just get the non-Pro model.

edit: updated "4 pounds" to "5+ pounds" since apparently it's already 4.5
pounds

~~~
moonman272
I personally think this issue is overblown in terms of frequency in the
internet outrage echo chamber. So so many of these devices among the people I
work with professionally, not a single failure out of anyone I’ve ever met.
Yet, reading Apple posts online, you would think every MacBook Pro sold has a
failing keyboard.

~~~
tptacek
This issue is not overblown. I've used nothing but Macs since 2001, and am now
at the third company I've worked at that maintains a substantial fleet of
Macbooks. This most recent keyboard debacle is the worst thing that ever
happened to the Macbook platform.

Literally every single MBP in our office has failed, some of them more than
once. The failure mode is always the same: the keyboard gets flaky, then you
lose a key for a couple hours until you manage to finagle it back into
working, then you lose 1-2 more keys and they never work properly again. The
only fix is to turn it over to Apple for several days, _which means you can 't
count on a single MBP per employee_, because at any given moment --- with near
certainty --- someone's laptop will be taken out for several days.

On the plus side, it's a little bit like Chaos Monkey for backups, since you
always know you're probably just a day or two away from needing to swap
machines.

It sounds like a minor thing, I get it! "Sticking keys, oh no!" The problem
is: _you can 't type_. The only way to be typing again on your machine is to
have it sent away for several days. That's a disaster.

~~~
jsjohnst
> Literally every single MBP in our office has failed

I respect you and your posts generally, but I can guarantee that’s a
hyperbolic statement if sample size is greater than maybe a small handful.

~~~
kasey_junk
My sample size is 1 and I’ve witnessed this exact failure mode.

This computer is far and away the worst machine I’ve had in my professional
career.

~~~
tinus_hn
That settles it then! We have now proven that the amount of devices that fail
is 100% with an uncertainty of about 100%.

------
Cacti
The quality at Apple, in both software and hardware, has obviously declined in
the past couple years as their supply chain has come under strain.

In the past three years:

my MacBook has had replaced

\- The screen

\- The battery

\- The keyboard

My iPad had it's screen replaced, and my iPhone had its battery replaced.

None of these are covered under AppleCare, they've all been replaced under
individual recall programs.

Sure, they have fixed each issue for free, so that's fine, but for what is
supposed to be the most dependable consumer hardware on the market, it's
rather surprising.

~~~
asafira
To me, this speaks to the incredible layers of protection Apple has in making
sure their hardware consumers have as good of an experience as possible, even
when they have unexpected issues. I really think some people would choose
Apple solely because Apple would do these repairs for free, in a way that is
the least amount of hassle to the consumer. (i.e, you can have a real
conversation with a real person.)

Otherwise, do people generally think that other computer manufacturers have't
had issues, or that Apple is purposefully trying to have a lower quality
product? Are people away of the amount of reliability testing that Apple does
in house? It's easy to point an ignorant finger at them, but we're better than
that. Where's the data?

If anything, the closest thing we have to data right now is what they say on
their website: a _small number_ of laptops have a malfunctioning keyboard. Is
it even legal for them to say that if it really were most of them?

~~~
woah
This is a ridiculous take. I have a MacBook 12” that had key problems. I went
to the Apple store and they wanted to charge me $570 to fix it. I got a
replacement key online for $13 and did it myself. Charging $570 to fix your
own mistakes is not taking great care of your customers.

~~~
asafira
I totally agree that sometimes they do ask for high fees for repairs --- you
still get to talk to a person though, and I definitely know a good number of
people who didn't have to pay for their mistakes. (Even things that were
definitely their fault, and they didn't have accidental coverage)

------
hs86
Did they actually solve the reliability issue or is this just a (one time?)
free service to get another of these error-prone keyboards?

~~~
Analemma_
It seems like you'll be getting the same keyboard, but the program says
nothing about limits per-computer, so if it happens again I think you just
send it in again.

I have to assume this implies a redesigned keyboard is coming, though. This is
going to be expensive for Apple and it would be insane to stick with a design
that they are tacitly admitting here is faulty.

~~~
ymolodtsov
A lot of people say that 2017 keyboards perform better. Had no issues with
mine so far and really like it.

~~~
madeofpalk
They don't.

The 2017 keyboards feel and sound better, but are no more reliable. I've owned
two 2017 MBPs and both keyboards have had issues.

------
ysleepy
I have the theory this is one factor that prevents a 2018 MacBook. They cant
make the keyboard work properly.

This and the fact they can't upgrade to CoffeeLake without going to 28W TDP.
Theyd have to use 2core CPUs with Iris graphics instead of the now standard
4core in the Ultrabook space, which would make the device look like a toy. And
Intel cant deliver 10nm chips. It is not looking cool. Maybe they only bring
out a new, slightly chunkier 15" with 32G of lpddr4 and CoffeeLake 4core which
would make a lot of video and pro people very happy.

EDIT: Coffee Lake does not support lpddr4 yet. So thr macbook is stuck with
16G RAM.

~~~
IgorRinkovec
But it looks like they already have:
[http://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.aiw?docid=20180068808&SectionNum=1&...](http://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.aiw?docid=20180068808&SectionNum=1&IDKey=F0B1C5BB130C&HomeUrl=http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-
Parser?Sect1=PTO1%252526Sect2=HITOFF%252526d=PG01%252526p=1%252526u=%2525252Fnetahtml%2525252FPTO%2525252Fsrchnum.html%252526r=1%25252)

~~~
akvadrako
This looks great - waterproof and dust free.

------
ciscoriordan
I'm on the phone with Apple customer service right now. It looks like I'm
going to get a refund for the $257 I paid to have my spacebar fixed in March.
The rep on the line says I'm the first person she's talked to about this but
she expects a lot more.

~~~
bitmapbrother
That's just crazy. $257 for a space bar fix. That's like the price of 2
quality mechanical keyboards with RGB lighting.

~~~
lolsal
It's not just 'a space bar fix'. It's a key on a highly specialized keyboard.
A MBP is the same price as N Chrome books but they aren't in the same ballpark
in terms of functionality.

~~~
mos_6502
I'm sorry, but $257 for a spacebar repair is simply absurd. To put it in
perspective, $72 more would get you a base-spec iPad.

I don't know about you, but a single chiclet key and a full-fledged tablet
computing device aren't in the same ballpark in terms of functionality,
either.

~~~
freehunter
You'd probably be surprised to find out how much it costs to replace one 2x4
in your house then. It's just a 2x4, right? How much could it cost?

Until you factor in the cost of tearing out the drywall, putting up a
temporary support jack, tearing out the 2x4, putting the new one in (plus the
cost of nails, of course), then running the electrical cables back through the
new board, then replacing the drywall, and then of course painting the wall
again.

But, you say, but you could save the extra cost and expense and labor by just
not having drywall covering your 2x4s. That's certainly an option, and I'm
sure some homeowners choose that.

But no, it's just a 2x4. It should be cheap, right? But when you add it all
up, just another couple of dollars would buy an entire new wall!

------
ralmidani
Eligible models include:

MacBook (Retina, 12-­inch, Early 2015)

I used to be a Free Software fanatic (and still prefer to use it when
feasible). But Apple stands behind its products like no other computer company
(see also its battery replacement program) and frankly, I've been craving a
Mac lately (currently using a Dell Developer Edition and a self-built desktop,
both running Ubuntu).

I think I'll save up for a Mac Pro since the RAM, graphics, and SSD (not to
mention screen) are relatively easy to replace or upgrade.

~~~
killaken2000
They stand behind their products and all it took was them getting sued first.

~~~
Rjevski
Honestly, it's still better than nothing.

Apple is obviously in the wrong here and they had to get sued before admitting
the mistake, but it's no worse than other manufacturers. At the very least,
_once_ Apple admitted it, the replacement experience is usually pleasant and
takes a single appointment at an Apple Store.

Compare that with other manufacturers where you have to ship the machine to
some service centre abroad _at your own cost_ and wait god knows how long
before getting it back.

~~~
hocuspocus
With a $2000+ laptop you should really get an extended warranty, and all
serious manufacturers send a technician to you.

Having to go to a physical Apple store implies that there's one nearby.

------
drchiu
This is great news for MBP/MB owners. The lack of a 2018 release of notebooks
while they properly address this is the right thing to do. I wonder how much
the class action lawsuits had to do with this, but I feel happy about the
outcome regardless of how we got here. Net-net though, I think Apple did lose
out in the sense the faulty keyboard drove a segment of their user base to
experiment with a Linux or Windows based work environment when news of
keyboard reliability issues surfaced after the 2016 release. Having not used a
Windows based system for years, I now have a Lenovo X1 Carbon as a backup
notebook after my 2017 MBP had keyboard issues. And to be honest, it's not bad
with the Windows Linux Subsystem (Ubuntu installs as an app from the app
store). Losing mind share is probably one of the worst things that can happen
to a brand.

~~~
raegis
I don't know about that. My wife recently needed a new Macbook Pro, and I
bought her the 2015 15" model since it has regular plugs. I use Linux
exclusively, but those 2015 Macbook pros are perfectly fine office machines.

------
caseywebdev
I've had my topcase replaced and the problems just came back months later.
Does anyone know if they have a solution to this problem or is their plan to
just have me ship my machine to them every six months and avoid the class
action?

~~~
threeseed
The problem is that you’re getting dust, food etc. behind the keys.

The solution is to use a keyboard cover. It also helps with noise as well.

~~~
dsego
Is this the “you're holding it wrong” argument?

~~~
threeseed
I’m not making a argument. I hate the design more than anyone.

The problem has been acknowledged by Apple as being particles of dust, food
behind the key mechanism. So the obvious solution is to cover the keys. I’ve
had a cover for a while and now have had zero issues.

~~~
bitwize
I'm sure Apple has a generous keyboard-cover licensing program for third-party
vendors.

------
oliv__
I need a new computer and I've been loving my 2011 Macbook Air until now but
to be honest, with the current offering, I almost feel like buying another Air
before they are killed.

It's hard to beat 12 hours of battery life, Magsafe, a super slim form factor,
a soft, silent keyboard, more ports, and the lit up apple.

I just wish it had smaller bezels and a better screen but apart from that,
it's looking like the more logical option to me, as strange as that might
sound.

~~~
jpkeisala
Is there a reason why you are not considering PC?

~~~
dijit
I dislike these questions because they almost feel like bait.

As in, someone is going to try to refute the arguments for choosing a Mac over
a PC but usually only in the shallowest of ways.

> 12h battery

"Well, the spec of a dell XPS with a 6-cell upgrade says 12 hours!"

> Thin and light

"Well, the HP Spectre is lighter!"

> MacOS is a good OS and works quite well

"Linux is good these days!"

> Magsafe

"You can buy a magNeo..." or "Well, that's not such a big issue!"

Pedantry aside, my point is that the whole package was just _slightly_ better
than the alternatives. No single thing was causing the platform to be so good.
The answers to these topics rarely look holistically.

And, no, I'm not a Mac fanboy- I like it enough because it has MS Office and
Exchange integration along with a slew of other proprietary tools needed to
work with my Microsoft heavy company, tools which do not work at all on Linux.
And I cannot possibly stand Windows. (But, otherwise would prefer Linux on my
precision 5520)

------
ilikehurdles
I’m glad they’re admitting there’s a problem. Two of my macbooks have had keys
just flat out fail in different ways.

------
chris_wot
They want to be exceptionally careful in Australia. They got fined $9M the
other day for misleading consumers about repairs:

[https://www.smh.com.au/technology/apple-us-
fined-9-million-f...](https://www.smh.com.au/technology/apple-us-
fined-9-million-for-misleading-some-australian-customers-20180619-p4zmbi.html)

~~~
madeofpalk
On this particular issue at hand, Apple is relatively quite careful and has
been for a number of years. If you present a device with an issue, they will
service and cover it for free for _at least_ two years. Apple's interpretation
of Australian consumer law was pretty straightforward.

~~~
chris_wot
That’s not Australian consumer law. There is no specific timeframe. This is
not the first time they have been caught out on this.

~~~
madeofpalk
I was referring to the keyboard issue, not the error 53 issue or whatever.

For the keyboard issue, it’s a simple case of honouring ACL saying that
devices should last for a reasonable period of time. Two years is the baseline
automatic baseline for iOS and Mac within Apple, with discretion used past
that.

I think the error 53 thing was a bit more nuanced and that was a genuine
misinterpretation of the laws.

~~~
chris_wot
Yes, that's the point I'm making though. Their two year "baseline" is what
seems to get them into so much trouble.

------
slivym
Finally, I've had to replace the keyboard on my current laptop twice and I've
had it less than 18 months. It's just ridiculous, it's not designed for every
day use.

------
Exuma
As annoying as it is, I REALLY hope they don't get rid of the butterfly
keyboard. It's superior in every way for typing, ease of fingers, speed, etc.
The one problem is the annoyance of stuck keys sometimes but I just buy canned
air and fix it the second it happens and it keeps it OK.

~~~
toyg
Uh, “superiority” is clearly in the eye of the beholder. I hate it, the super-
short travel literally makes my fingers hurt. It’s like tapping on a brick.
Without an external keyboard, I would have thrown away this machine after a
week.

~~~
Exuma
Make sure you're not talking about butterfly v1 (which was awful, like typing
on a piece of wood). V2 is where it's at

~~~
toyg
Mine is the MBPR late 2016 model, which I believe is v2 (v1 being the first
one-usbC macbook).

------
patrickg_zill
A good friend of mine has literally been a Mac user his entire life, for over
twenty years, he's about 27...

He bought his first ThinkPad last month. And no longer uses a Mac for his main
laptop.

The Second Moribundity of Apple is nigh...

~~~
Rjevski
I was a Thinkpad user my entire life.

I bought my first Apple laptop a year ago. I no longer use a Thinkpad as my
main laptop.

Your story works both ways so what's the point you're trying to make?

------
boomskats
Lenovo should be all over this with their Thinkpad marketing.

~~~
bitmapbrother
Here's their first ad campaign:

Lenovo - we don't charge $257 to fix your space bar.

~~~
volkl48
Lenovo is pretty terrible with parts availability. It's not uncommon for parts
for an enterprise-class, in warranty laptop to be unavailable/on a _long_ lead
time.

Dell is far better with parts availability, although (much as I personally
don't like them), Apple is better than either.

~~~
nandhp
> Lenovo is pretty terrible with parts availability

Really? That's too bad - I had to replace the fan on my Lenovo T500 some years
back (~2011) and they had sent one overnight-by-10:30 (and it was pretty
inexpensive, too). It certainly made an impression.

I guess back then IBM still ran the parts and service business, even though
Lenovo had taken over the manufacturing and marketing several years before.

------
butler14
Sounds familiar. Our repair from earlier this year. It broke twice, once
within two weeks, then within about a further 2 months.

Just what you need when you've spent £lol money on a premium/flagship laptop

Issue: Keys sticking and popping Cosmetic Condition: Device is in good
condition otherwise. Proposed Resolution: New TC & LCD

Display Assembly, Space Gray Top Case with Battery, ISO, Space Gray Hardware
Repair Labor Total £ 890.50

------
modernerd
Just had my MBP 15" keyboard replaced in full under warranty, similar to
what's being offered here. Pluses:

\- Full top sheet replacement includes the battery (it's glued to the top
sheet), so you get a new battery too if Apple decide the keyboard needs full
replacement (this is at their discretion, but you could insist on it if you
have multiple failing keys). It's nice to see that battery cycle counter reset
to zero.

\- I'd forgotten that the out-of-the-box keyboard feels great to type on (if
you're comfortable with the low travel and having to bottom-out your
keypresses, which mechanical keyboard purists tend to hate). And it's quiet.
Before the replacement a train passenger asked me if I could please type more
quietly. I'm a light touch-typist but it really did sound like bacon crackling
at one point. There's nothing much I could do except move carriage or put the
laptop away.

\- In all other respects the MBP is the best laptop I've owned, after ~20
years of Apple/Microsoft/Dell/IBM/Lenovo hardware. I considered switching away
from Apple gear but now think I'll stick it out. It's hard to find comparable
trackpads, screens, software, and batteries elsewhere.

Downsides:

\- The service technician said there's nothing fundamentally different about
the new keyboard parts. They are flawed like the old ones.

\- Also said there's nothing much I can do to prevent this. I use an external
keyboard about 80% of the time and still encountered issues with keycaps
working loose and keys crackling and sticking; I expect I'll see it again
before AppleCare and the 4-year replacement period is up.

\- They recommended selling the MBP as soon as Apple offers a new model
without that defect. I suspect others will do the same if something better
comes out, and resale values will likely take a hit as a result.

~~~
zaidf
> In all other respects the MBP is the best laptop I've owned, after ~20 years
> of Apple/Microsoft/Dell/IBM/Lenovo hardware. I considered switching away
> from Apple gear but now think I'll stick it out. It's hard to find
> comparable trackpads, screens, software, and batteries elsewhere.

My experience could not be more different. I’ve had two MacBooks die in the
last 3 years: one from spilled water near keyboard and the other just booted
with dead pixels one morning. To make matters worse, in both cases I was quote
$800+ by Apple for repair.

In contrast, I have Dell laptops with 2-3x usage going back a decade that
still work just fine even after fairly rough handling and numerous spills. On
couple of occasions during 2000s when I did have a Dell fail, Dell either sent
a replacement or sent a technician to my house to do a full repair.

------
ollysb
I took my laptop (macbook pro 15 2017) into the store today because the 'i'
and 'f' keys are now only held in place by gravity. I was surprised to hear
that not only would they replace the whole keyboard but that they've resolved
the issues in the replacement that I'd be receiving. Anyone know if this is
true?

~~~
threeseed
It’s not true. The replacement top case you get will be identical to the one
you have now.

And it will continue to break. Source: two replaced top cases.

~~~
prewett
It's possible that something has changed between your last visit and today...
Given that Apple announced a recall, I'd say it's highly likely that they
think they have fixed it.

~~~
gnicholas
I am curious about this also. And since I have an appt at the Apple Store
tomorrow for my busted keyboard, I will be reporting back! Hopefully they will
at least have a permanent fix by the time the 4-year period is up, even if
they don’t have it ready yet.

~~~
gnicholas
Reporting back: the Apple Store Stanford was able to remove the key and clean
underneath it. They said if it happens again they can replace the top case,
but that this happens out of store and takes 3-5 business days. (They can
apparently do this in-store as well, but if something goes wrong then they
have to send it out to be taken care of. Also, it's no faster if they do it
in-store, apparently).

They did not know whether the new program involved replacing keyboards with
improved keyboards that might be less prone to these problems.

------
packeted
Would be very interested to hear whether this is actually a long-term fix to
the problem. I have had this issue many times with my MBP non-TB model,
usually resolved by some compressed air under the keys.

------
gonyea
Where “certain MacBook and MacBook Pro models” means every single one? Ok.

~~~
tbodt
I believe the models listed includes every model with the new type of
keyboard.

------
pdq
Since this only covers specific models from 2015-2017, I hope this means the
2018 Macbook/Macbook Pro models (whenever they are released) will have an
improved keyboard design.

~~~
lando2319
Or maybe it's not on the list because the comp doesn't exist yet, maybe
they'll add it to the list when it comes out.

I hope that's not the case, and we'll see a brand new redesigned, reliable
keyboard.

------
viburnum
I've missed four Apple recalls (Mac, Apple TV, and two iPhones). What's the
best way to keep up to date on them? Apple has never contacted me.

------
gnicholas
I'm glad to hear this. I've already been in once because of an up-arrow
problem, and I'm headed back tomorrow because my space bar sticks.

Does anyone have any feedback on whether the cleaning they do in-store is as
good as getting a new keyboard installed (or how long the installation takes)?

My guess is a lot of folks will be taking their MBPs in right before the four
years is up to get a new keyboard going-forward.

------
dillondoyle
I'm definitely going to send mine in and am hoping for basically a new
replacement (has happened before in old models when they do repairs for me).

My keys not only stick and sometimes the left shift doesn't work half the
time. I feel like they get dirtier somehow than the old model. And the black
scratches off easier.

Late '16 15 inch retina here, my keys started getting fucking about +6 months
of every day use.

------
toomanybeersies
My work Macbook is 6 months old, and the delete key only works if you hit it
with a certain pressure at a certain place.

I'm tempted to send it in, but the problem is that I sort of need it for work.

I don't think I will send it in, since it's not my personal laptop, and I just
use an external keyboard at work because the Macbook keyboard is terrible
anyway.

I'm sure that I'm not the only person in this position.

------
dom96
As much as I love Apple hardware I am really annoyed by how wasteful their
products are. I recently took my Early 2015 MBP to the Apple store because one
of the rubber feet came off, I was told that the warranty doesn't cover "non-
functional issues" and that I would need to pay them £100 to replace the full
bottom panel.

Anyone know a reason why they do this other than greed?

~~~
donarb
Because it costs money to store and inventory small parts. It needs a sku and
a price for the part, then a sku/price for the repair/replacement. How many
small rubber feet should an Apple Store keep in stock for the occasional
customer who comes in and loses one? Easier to just replace a whole part that
contains many of the smaller attached parts.

~~~
JamesBaxter
I’m pretty sure all the MacBook feet are exactly the same, certainly the MBP
line are. They could store 10000 rubber feet in a pretty reasonably sized
box....

I was amazed when two of the feet on my 2014 MBP came off on the same week.

------
chvid
This is very good and the reason I keep coming back to Apple is that they
actually do stuff like this.

I am currently on a 2012 mbpr and it has had its screen replaced by Apple (due
to the keyboard scratching the screen) and the logic board replaced by Apple
(due faulty soldering around the GPU).

No other consumer electronics company offers that level of service.

~~~
tartrate
They are doing it because they were sued.

~~~
jpkeisala
Yes, exactly. They even denied problem exist til very end.

------
electic
The problem is that this service will mean sending in the computer because the
keyboard is not easy to replace on this model. I've heard from techs they just
end up replacing the whole thing.

Does anyone know if the keyboard they plan to replace it with is better? Or is
it the exact same keyboard that will end up sticking again after a month?

------
gnicholas
PSA: the replacement parts that Apple is now using are not identical to the
original parts that are taken out.

I learned this today from a Genius Bar employee at the Apple Store Stanford.
He said that they have slightly tweaked the parts so they aren't as
susceptible to jam/malfunction.

------
thewizardofaus
Will never forgive apple after they refused to fix my late 2011 MacBook Pro
which suffered from the GPU flaw.

------
pytyper
This is rich. Most manufacturers would not need to start a special program,
you just mail your laptop back, no lawsuit needed. Lenovo will send a repair
person to your home. Apple really is trash. You can't even replace a hard
drive in their laptops. Fisher Price laptops.

~~~
edwinjm
Most manufacturers send a repair person when the product is out of warranty? I
don't think so.

------
millzlane
I stand corrected. I'm glad they finally decided to acknowledge the issue. We
know the way they work. It probably took them months to do the CBA.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17312885](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17312885)

------
synaesthesisx
One of my machines (a $3000+ 2017 15") has had several keys fail. I actually
use an external keyboard just so I don't have to deal with the unreliable
keys. Between the frustrating touchbar and this I honestly can't recommend the
current generation of MBPs...

------
moltar
When they say “sticky keys” do they mean let’s get stuck in depressed position
or that they feel sticky, like adhesive? Because I’m feeling the latter. All
jokes aside I tried wiping it to no avail. I don’t eat at the computer and
always wash hands.

~~~
gnicholas
Stuck in depressed condition. (Much like their owners, who await an MBP with
more ports and a functioning keyboard.)

~~~
moltar
lulz :D

------
code4tee
Annoying that Apple pretended there wasn’t an issue for so long but they have
a decent track record of doing right by their customer in the long run. I’ve
seen this keyboard issue first hand on machines and it’s both legit and highly
annoying.

------
eaxitect
At last. I've made my MBP repaired previously. Fortunately, it was still under
warranty, and I did not paid anything. OTOH, I had the feeling that the same
problem might occur in future. This program with 4 yrs coverage, is a must.

------
sssparkkk
Apparently it's pretty difficult to make a keyboard that works correctly,
because in case you're wondering whether to go for a Dell instead: they have
similar key repeating issues on various (high end) laptop models.

~~~
AhtiK
Lenovo latest X1 keyboard has close to zero issues and perfect for most with a
size comparable to mbp line.

------
stephenwilcock
My retina MBP developed a really sticky 'L' key. A few blasts of compressed
air and a few taps it sorted it out completely. Your mileage may vary, but
worth a go.

------
dawnerd
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is the keys on the MacBook lose their
clickiness and the computer is put under load. Cooling it down the clickiness
comes back.

------
plg
Are they changing it in some way? Or is this just “a random subset has
problems and we will repair them as they emerge but we’re not changing the
design”

------
karmicthreat
Hopefully the Apple store can do these repairs same day. I actually bought a
magic keyboard and trackpad so I can have this issue not happen as often.

~~~
Someone1234
It is unlikely, the repair is pretty extensive see:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMueATtTcQg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMueATtTcQg)

------
jason_slack
I ordered a MBP 13 without touchbar and it is shipping now. I wonder if it
will be subject to this issue or if new models are already “fixed”

~~~
pier25
It’s a design flaw. It will only be fixed with new design.

------
spiritcat
touchbar - 1, legacy physical keys - 0

------
jarym
Love to see the feature matrix spin for this...

Keyboard repair program

\- Apple: included

\- PC vendors: none

------
tigershark
Small percentage???

~~~
ymolodtsov
Yes, small. Because every person who had it complained online but there’s so
much more users who are doing fine.

~~~
tigershark
If the design is as flawed as it seems it is just matter of time before a much
bigger percentage fails..

~~~
luigi23
Thats true, since its clearly an overall design flaw, not a problem with some
units. But even that they will state ‘small percentage’ to not make it clear.

------
maxdo
Are there any examples other big vendors eg hp or Lenovo did the same for 4
y.o. laptop ? Yeah it’s tooo late but better later then never

~~~
djsumdog
Apple also hasn't updated this line in quite some time. Dave2D recently did a
new laptop review where he couldn't recommend any MacBooks because they're
still using far older architecture than their PC equivalents like the Dell XPS
15.

------
kisanme
Finally, at least they responded :(

------
vs2
ha when I try to submit a case I get

Service Unavailable - Zero size object

typed slowly as my spacebar is so sticky!!!!!!!

------
pankajkumar229
I have a late 2013 with the same exact keyboard problem. Apple quotes a crazy
repair price. Can someone sue for us?

------
intrasight
Honest question: as the keyboards suck anyway, why not just spend $100 and get
a quality mechanical keyboard?

~~~
e1ven
A large appeal of a laptop is the portability.

------
post_break
At least they are covering it for 4 years. But after that you're still sitting
with a time bomb.

------
make3
this failed on my 2014 mbp, costing me 300$ in repairs. too bad my laptop is
not covered

~~~
slig
The 2014 model has the old keyboard, and they're repairing the issue on the
newer, butterfly models.

------
Overtonwindow
Better late than never, Apple!

------
rakic
A classic Friday news dump.

------
coldseattle
“Small Percentage”? Ha!

------
dawhizkid
Finally

------
sunpazed
“A small percentage” ... this is so Apple

------
gepeto42
It was about timeeeeeeeeeee

~~~
rhacker
I don't know why you were downvoted - this is exactly what I thought when I
read it.

------
akulbe
OH. Is there a Repair Program for High Sierra too? Repairing the keyboard only
goes so far if the OS still sucks as bad as it does. </s> #sorta

I really hope Apple gets back to reliable and "Just Works" again.

