
Benefits of Sarcasm - v4n4d1s
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-surprising-benefits-of-sarcasm/
======
6stringmerc
To me, sarcasm is a form of a riddle, albeit one highly dependent on the trust
and relationship between the two or more parties involved. A sarcastic
statement does not always have to convey a "belittling" or "malicious"
overtone, but can be much closer to a maxim, a form of wordplay, a metaphor,
or an allegory. Or, in the case of the following Futurama quote, sarcasm can
be a container for one of the above literary devices:

 _Professor Farnsworth: Is it true that stem cells may fight the aging
process?

GeneWorks receptionist: Well yes. In the same way an infant may fight Muhammad
Ali._

I like how the article points out that the over-arching caveat to the benefits
of scarcasm involve the 'human capital' of _trust_. That reminds me of why my
friends and I would use sarcasm with each other as games of wit, and why, on
occasion, I'd cringe when one of my friends would be sarcastic, sometimes in a
not-very-nice way, to a stranger who was simply trying to do their job. Or, in
other words, sarcasm is a very powerful weapon in the "put down" game, and a
large swath of the population isn't really mentally equipped or practiced in
the contest, so it's a belitting thing...but when sarcasm ace meets sarcasm
ace, holy cow it can be some funny material.

~~~
AndrewKemendo
_but when sarcasm ace meets sarcasm ace, holy cow it can be some funny
material._

Also known as British Humor.

Maybe we should call this a Monty Python scenario.

------
danso
One of the few lessons to stick with me from high school English was during
the lesson on irony, when a student asked "Is sarcasm the same thing as
irony?" and the teacher thought about it for a moment, before responding that,
yes, it is, kind of, but it's the lowest form of irony.

I really enjoy irony in life and in literature, so I try to avoid sarcasm as
to not cheapen the fun of "higher" forms of irony (like finally understanding
Alanis Morisette's "Ironic").

~~~
jkyle
> like finally understanding Alanis Morisette's "Ironic"

Would you mind explaining the deeper meaning of Morissette's song?

~~~
RKoutnik
Not OP, but here goes:

None of the examples in the song are actually ironic (i.e. taking an action
with the intention of causing A which actually prevents A [or vise versa]).
"Rain on your wedding day" isn't ironic, as "getting married" isn't attempting
to prevent rain.

However, writing a song that's supposed to be chock-full of ironic things
where _not a single one_ actually demonstrates irony _IS_ ironic.

So the song is meta-irony.

~~~
coldtea
> _None of the examples in the song are actually ironic. (i.e. taking an
> action with the intention of causing A which actually prevents A [or vise
> versa])._

Actually most (if not all) of the examples in the song are actually ironic.
And the example given above is not the sole definition of irony (but could be
an ironic situation).

From the dictionary:

(a) the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies
the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect.

(b) a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what
one expects and is often wryly amusing as a result.

The "10000 spoons when you all you need is a knife" is obvious with the latter
example.

As for the "rain on your wedding day", it fairly obviously presupposes the
expectation (of the "stereotypical" woman planning her wedding) that it would
be some perfect sunny day.

E.g. imagine a bride to be planning her reception, and after weeks full of
summer sun, it pours like crazy in her wedding day ("a state of affairs (...)
deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often wryly amusing as a
result") -- it's this feeling like the universe is mocking you, like you know,
the weather changed on purpose.

Of course a song has to tell those things elliptically, and people expect to
see irony either in the form of (a -- most comments I've seen allude to that)
or in a blatantly explicit (b).

~~~
yarper
It raining on your wedding day isn't ironic unless you're marrying an umbrella
shop owner who has recently gone out of business.

Being stuck without a spoon to stir your tea in a spoon factory would be
ironic.

It's like good advice you just can't take? No?

~~~
coldtea
> _It raining on your wedding day isn 't ironic unless you're marrying an
> umbrella shop owner who has recently gone out of business._

Rain on one's wedding day isn't by itself ironic (in England for example it
would be par for the course, as it almost always rains anyway).

But it can be, under certain expectations (e.g. an expectation and
preparations for a ceremony with nice weather, sudden rain ESPECIALLY on that
day, when it was all well and sunny for weeks before, etc).

------
rtl49
_Instead of avoiding sarcasm completely in the office, the research suggests
sarcasm, used with care and in moderation, can be effectively used and trigger
some creative sparks._

Who really has the presence of mind and self control to use sarcasm with "care
and moderation" when in the midst of a work-related social interaction? I
think this is just a silly extrapolation to draw from the evidence presented.

Sarcasm can be amusing and perhaps useful in satire and social settings where
there's no risk of generating animosity between people, but in the workplace
where relationships don't necessarily arise from a sense of mutual
understanding, I think this article gives us little reason to believe it can
do more good than harm.

~~~
pjc50
All professional communication demands a certain amount of care and
moderation. Not just for humour but for criticism, praise, discerning
preferences etc. Use of _appropriate_ humour can greatly improve things but
you have to know your audience.

~~~
rtl49
Humor, sure. But sarcasm comes by definition at the expense of an idea or
another person. Thus I submit that the article has not adequately supported
the argument that sarcasm can be helpful in the workplace.

~~~
jerf
"But sarcasm comes by definition at the expense of an idea or another person."

Even to the extent that is true, which I could quibble with, the sarcasm can
be at the sarcastic one's expense, as a form of self-deprecation, or it could
be at the expense of a person not present and one who may not even properly-
speaking exist.

Sarcasm at a coworker's expense isn't wrong because it's sarcasm, it would be
wrong because _any_ social interaction at a coworker's expense is generally
wrong.

~~~
rtl49
At the risk of quibbling, my opinion on the definition of sarcasm resembles
that of Wikipedia's article on the subject:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm)

Other than that bit, what you've written doesn't conflict with what I wrote.
Even if sarcasm is used at the expense of nonexistent parties, it stands a
reasonable chance of making those who don't know you well wary.

One illustration from my own life: I was very sarcastic as a younger person,
but generally had no malicious intent. Once I thought I was getting along
quite well with a girl, who was laughing at some of my sarcastic remarks. At
the end of the evening, she stormed out of the room, upset after I made yet
another sarcastic comment. This came to the great surprise of me and others in
the group who knew me better. Here there was no evil intended on either side,
yet sarcasm combined with the intrinsic difficulty in understanding another
person created a very uncomfortable and socially destructive situation.

------
corin_
Not directly related to the article but just to the topic: one of the biggest
things for me to get used to when I moved from the UK to France earlier this
year is the lack of sarcasm used/understood by French people. There's a couple
of French people I know who get my sense of humour, for everyone else I have
to conciously knock off what I think of as the UK part of my joking and keep
it to "international-friendly humour" only.

~~~
song
Oh, I've noticed that... That's why as a French I tend to love UK comedies. We
tend to use less dry sarcasm in France. So much the pity.

------
moonchrome
The worst thing about using sarcasm with coworkers who aren't on the same page
is when they miss it and not only take it seriously but accept the statement.
If you tell them/they figure out you were being sarcastic not only did they
miss it in the first place they actually supported a sarcastic statement so
they hate you for making them look stupid. If you don't tell them they find
out it's wrong and think you're an idiot for suggesting it. It really curbed
my use of sarcasm after school :(

~~~
vlehto
I'd hate you mostly because of the lost brain power. Obvious sarcasm is OK,
it's the guesswork that gets under my skin.

~~~
moonchrome
But that's just it - how "obvious" something is is completely subjective. I
was baffled that the other person took me seriously because it seemed
obviously ridiculous to me. After a while I just accepted that I can't be
sarcastic with people I don't know well enough if I care about getting my
point across.

~~~
vlehto
Point was that it's not necessarily "because you made me look stupid". If that
was the case, I would believe to be utter moron by now. (Getting sarcasm is
not my thing, but that doesn't keep me from using it..)

------
lakeeffect
> Other research has show that sarcasm can be easily misinterpreted,
> particularly when communicated electronically.

I can't tell if the comments thus far are sarcastic.

------
brianclements
This is anecdotal, sure, but I think worth noting. Of my youngest students
that I teach, starting around 4 or 5, I've consistently noticed that the most
developmentally advanced students in terms of language, patience, and focus
are the ones that have very sarcastic and witty conversations with their
parents and/or me. They are also always very pleasant to work with (sense of
humor!). There are times where I am surprised the student even understands
that what's being said isn't literal, but they do get it and will joke back.

I'm convinced this type of rhetoric forces an additional cognitive load on the
child's brain that helps with context, perspective, and self-awareness which
in my mind, are the absolute most powerful aspects of becoming an intelligent
individual. This is sort of the basis of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy as well
and is the most important "gateway" concept when teaching anyone anything.

------
jeffehobbs
"Great" article.

~~~
DrScump
Yeah. As if.

------
ScottBurson
Boy, HN really needs to hear this. Nobody likes sarcasm around here.

~~~
riskable
Hmm... I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

~~~
ScottBurson
:-)

------
bitwize
Way to shake things up with the finding of the century there, guys.

~~~
troubleden
Probably not a productive comment

------
takee
I feel that when one's conveying sarcasm in electronic forms, a wink emoji
goes a long way in making it clear. However the sarcasm purists might
disagree.

------
Nickersf
I'm sure this concept will be well received among the soft millennial college
students.

------
miseg
I was very surprised.

------
kelukelugames
I've worked at a lot of companies where the devs are incredibly snarky. Most
of the people making the jokes are straight, white, and male. I wonder if this
is perceived as another barrier to minorities.

~~~
yarper
I heard that minorities don't understand sarcasm.

~~~
kelukelugames
I'm referring to brogrammer/jock culture. Don't be so sensitive when people
criticize sarcasm. A few women have written about the way some men communicate
with each other can be alienating.

~~~
yarper
Sarcasm failure

~~~
kelukelugames
Comments like this don't belong on HN. please reconsider how you disagree with
people.

