
Boston Dynamics will start selling its dog-like SpotMini robot in 2019 - andyjohnson0
https://techcrunch.com/2018/05/11/boston-dynamics-will-start-selling-its-dog-like-spotmini-robot-in-2019/
======
monkeynotes
How this isn't exclusively military tech is beyond me. If this sort of thing
is available to anyone with a chequebook then what does the military have?

It is begging for a weapon to be mounted to it and sent to patrol the streets
of dystopia.

The Police will for sure be buying stuff like this with the argument that it
will save cop's lives in hostile situations. From there we'll have to get used
to seeing automated enforcement. Oh poop, I am getting into the obvious
slippery slope arguments, it's just so hard to not be cynical about tech like
this. The world is rapidly changing again </luddite>.

~~~
Fricken
There's a term for when people gravitate to worst case scenarios not because
the worst case scenario is likely, but because it is easy to imagine. I forget
the term.

~~~
rxhernandez
I think the term you're looking for is ethical engineering; you probably saw
something like it at an ABET accredited university.

~~~
vpribish
no, that would not be the term. Here are some candidates

"awfulizing" from Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy
[https://qz.com/989112/how-to-stop-jumping-to-the-worst-
case-...](https://qz.com/989112/how-to-stop-jumping-to-the-worst-case-
scenario-according-to-evolutionary-psychology/)

"Catastrophizing"
[https://www.harleytherapy.co.uk/counselling/catastrophizing-...](https://www.harleytherapy.co.uk/counselling/catastrophizing-
always-assuming-the-worse-heres-why-you-should-stop.htm)

"Catastrophic Thinking" [https://psychcentral.com/blog/catastrophic-thinking-
when-you...](https://psychcentral.com/blog/catastrophic-thinking-when-your-
mind-clings-to-worst-case-scenarios/)

------
binarymax
These things just look terrifying. The reversed knee joints, the square
bodies, the vulture beak head, the color, all send a message of hostility. You
want to put one of these things in my office or my home? Forget it.

~~~
protoster
Seems like a solvable problem, stick some googly eyes and bunny ears on it.
Maybe add speakers to make squeaking noises when it walks.

~~~
fixermark
"DO NOT BE ALARMED. I AM A HARMLESS ROBOTIC ASSISTANT. I AM JUST HERE TO
OBSERVE AND MAKE SURE EVERYTHING IS OKAY IN THIS SECTOR."

Said in the most synthetic-sweet robot voice they can find, pouring out of the
speakers every two minutes. ;)

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sschueller
This is most likely also due to competition that is showing up like ANYmal
[1].

[1] [https://www.anybotics.com/anymal/](https://www.anybotics.com/anymal/) [2]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RQDp0Q2vSo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RQDp0Q2vSo)

~~~
mbrumlow
While yeah, those things are super had to make I just could not help to think
of how pathetic it looked compared to Boston Dynamic's Spot Mini.

~~~
dvfjsdhgfv
Now. They'll get there, eventually. I give them 3-5 years max.

~~~
lajhsdfkl
> I give them 3-5 years max.

why?

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notheguyouthink
Damn, seems like this isn't intended for home use. I had my wallet out. No
idea why, but I'd love a little robotic "pet" that was able to navigate the
world.

Bonus points if it had an API to easily "train" it. Endless fun

~~~
PostOnce
the Nao robot was over $20,000 -- how much do you think this will cost? Pepper
is $7,000 and it has no legs. One arm and no navigation skills is $8000, two
arms is $25000 from rethink, right?

I'm guessing it'll be over $100K

~~~
mrarjen
My guess as well, the R&D that has gone into this would certainly allow it to
be that much. But once it's out in the open I'm sure some people will take it
apart and hopefully we will see easier (cheaper) ways of recreating it DIY
style.

~~~
anoncoward111
The hardware on these things is pretty beefy too tbh. Like it's not just
motors and servos from the electronics hobby shop.

it's like legitimate hydraulic suspension and batteries and power supplies and
obviously, LIDAR + it's accompanying software

I would love to DIY this thing but it's a lot more advanced than DIYing even a
Powerwall or a Model S

~~~
PostOnce
I forgot about LIDAR, in that case, my estimate was too low. LIDAR stuff is
expensive, even the lowest end stuff is thousands.

~~~
dirktheman
An agricultural grade LIDAR sensor (for drones) costs $250-$500. I wouldn't
trust it in my Tesla, but for a DIY Spot Mini clone it'll do.

Still, that's just the sensor...

~~~
look_lookatme
Can you buy one of these with an SDK?

~~~
dirktheman
You'd have to roll your own... there are libraries for Raspberry Pi and
Arduino though.

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ape4
I enjoyed its Black Mirror episode

~~~
some_random
Yeah, it was a nice break from the really terrifying episodes. Just a bit of
casual murder.

~~~
glenneroo
<Black Mirror Spoiler> If you consider using a knife as a weaponized appendage
and launching exploding balls with mesh-networked long-distance tracking-
capable shrapnel pieces which embed easily in skin "casual" then I'm almost
afraid to ask what you consider less mundane.

------
tetraodonpuffer
watching the video of the presentation I was saddened by the fact that the CEO
said that one of their most requested features is to create some sort of
wheelchair replacement based on this tech, but it seems they aren't really
working on it (around 16:30 in the video).

Given how hard it is for wheelchair users to navigate the world, it would have
been amazing if this had been one of the first applications. I know friends of
mine on wheelchairs would give a lot to be able to just go for a "walk" on a
normal park trail or on the beach without having to worry about it being
wheelchair accessible.

It is understandable that from several points of view the surveillance
industry is a much easier target for this platform, not to mention that of
course carrying a person-sized weight might be difficult also from a battery
standpoint, however I wish that was more of a priority for the product.

~~~
pdfernhout
An alternative maybe of interest to your friends?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBOT](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBOT) "The
iBOT has a number of features distinguishing it from most powered wheelchairs:
By rotating its two sets of powered wheels about each other, the iBOT can
"walk" up and down stairs, much like a cog railway or a rack and pinion with
the two wheels as the "teeth" of the gear. The wheels can roll slightly at
each step to compensate for a wide range of stair dimensions. When stair-
climbing without assistance, the user requires a sturdy handrail and a strong
grip. With an assistant, neither a handrail nor a strong grip is required. The
iBOT is capable of tethered remote control operation, useful for loading the
wheelchair up ramps into vehicles, or "parking" out of the way when not
occupied. Custom software receives data via various sensors and gyroscopes,
allowing the iBOT to maintain balance during certain maneuvers. For example,
during curb climbing the seat remains level while parts of the chassis tilt to
climb the curb. It allows the user to rise from a sitting level to
approximately 6' tall, measured from the ground to the top of the head, and
depending on the size of the occupant. It does this by raising one pair of
wheels above the other to elevate the chassis, while a separate actuator
raises the seat slightly more than usual. In this configuration the device is
on two wheels, and the 'iBALANCE' software and gyroscope signals control the
iBOT to maintain equilibrium, balancing much like the Segway scooter (which
was a spin-off from the iBOT development). The user may also travel in this
"standing" configuration. It can climb and descend curbs ranging from 0.1 to
5.0 inches, according to the manufacturer's specifications. The limits are
determined by the rider's technique and risk tolerance. It is capable of
traveling through many types of terrain, including sand, gravel, and water up
to 3" deep."

------
nabla9
>“The SpotMini robot is one that was motivated by thinking about what could go
in an office — in a space more accessible for business applications — and
then, the home eventually,”

Both in the home and in the office settings, wheel-leg robot (like Handle)
would be more energy efficient, silent, faster and require much less
maintenance. 99% of the time it would just wheel around.

I'm sure they can sell several thousands of these based on coolness factor
alone, but I don't think it's the future.

~~~
Larrikin
If it had wheels, it wouldn't be able to navigate things like stairs. It also
won't be cool and would just be a Roomba

~~~
nabla9
I said wheel-legs, not wheels.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7xvqQeoA8c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7xvqQeoA8c)

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agotterer
The article doesn’t mention what it’s purpose is? Anyone know?

~~~
anonymfus
It's supposed to be a platform users can mount their own hardware to and write
software for. Its back is flat and contains mount points for custom hardware.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
> Its back is flat and contains mount points for custom hardware.

Well considering the specs...

>The device weighs around 66 pounds and can operate for about 90 minutes on a
charge.

Per physics and current battery technology that run time probably falls off
really quickly if you make it lug around any appreciable amount of weight.

A general laborer costs the employer maybe $20/hr (all inclusive) in most
settings.

Except maybe in situations where the cost of an employee is artificially high
(e.g a role that requires a bunch of certification/training in a union
workplace working on a government contract where the actual job duties are
fairly menial) I can't see a use case where this makes sense.

I honestly have no idea what the use case for this is. Where can a $20k-ish
robot that can carry around 30lb replace/supplement a person well enough to
break even over its lifetime?

~~~
Retric
The most obvious use case is short security patrols around warehouses etc. A
single night shift guard at 20$ / hour * 8 hours = 58k / year so having even 5
of these things could be a net savings over 2 years assuming a ~20k price tag.

Flying drones seem like a better option for a many things but they have short
battery life and significant weight limits. If these things can do 1 hour with
50 lbs over rough terrain that's probably very useful.

Most off the wall use case? Renting them from Uhaul to help you move heavy
boxes up and down stairs. Something of a mid way point between a moving
company and doing it by yourself. 50$/day * 100 days a year puts break-even
around 4-5 years and 50lbs up or down stairs for an hour before charging say
~3 hours a day could easily be worth 50$.

------
announcerman
Will it jump into my bed and sleep on top of me though

------
Animats
No price given. That's the big problem with this technology. It's expensive.
It took Boston Dynamics about $125 million to get to Atlas, from looking at
their DARPA contract data.

If they could sell 10,000 units a year, the price might come down to a few
thousand. The next big improvement in price/performance will probably come
when LIDAR gets cheap. This is about to happen as the various automotive LIDAR
companies get their act together. Once that's a standard auto part, it will be
cheap.

They got rid of the hydraulics. That's progress.

------
JayDoubleu
DARPA is already featuring spot mini like robot in one of their new YT videos
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUCHN2Fyt_0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUCHN2Fyt_0)
at 1:56

------
Dowwie
And then one day SpotMini gets a firmware update to attack me in my sleep..

------
airstrike
If by "dog" you mean killer alien AI, sure

------
erikb
What's the price, tho?

~~~
richmarr
No idea, but I'd expect they'll initially price it for companies until they
get the price per unit down... maybe make the business case that it can
replace a night watchman type position so replaces one or more salaries.

I'd guess $40k based on a 2-year lifespan (I reckon it'll get longer but the
initial versions will have glitches)

Any more guesses? Or... actual information?

~~~
erikb
This is already interesting. I thought for production readiness the price
would need to be 5-10% of that.

------
allengeorge
Looks like what I’d imagine the mechanical hounds in Fahrenheit 451.

------
warent
To the comments in this thread that are panicking about SpotMini:
[https://xkcd.com/1955/](https://xkcd.com/1955/)

------
TYPE_FASTER
/me starts googling diy emp

------
bitwize
Remember that wolfbot that acted as a companion to Raiden in _Metal Gear
Rising: Revengeance_?

------
bhouston
What is the price point?

------
commieneko
From Cordwainer Smith's classic short story "Mark Elf."

Carlotta stared at the machine. It had legs like a grasshopper, a body like a
ten-foot turtle, and three heads which moved restlessly in the moonlight.

From the forward edge of the top shell a hidden arm leapt forth, seeming to
strike at her, deadlier than a cobra, quicker than a jaguar, more silent than
a bat flitting across the face of the moon.

"Don't!" Carlotta screamed in German. The arm slopped suddenly in the
moonlight. The stop was so sudden that the metal twanged like the string of a
bow. The heads of the machine all turned toward her.

Something like surprise seemed to overtake the machine. The whistling dropped
down to a soothing purr. The electronic chatter burst up to a crescendo and
then stopped. The machine dropped to its knees. Carlotta crawled over to it.

Said she in German, "What are you?"

"I am the death of all men who oppose the Sixth German Reich," said the
machine in fluted singsong German. "If the Reichsangehoriger wishes to
identify me, my model and number are written on my carapace."

The machine knelt at a height so low that Carlotta could seize one of the
heads and look in the moonlight at the edge of the top shell. The head and
neck, though made of metal, felt much more weak and brittle than she expected.
There was about the machine an air of immense age.

"I can't see," wailed Carlotta. "I need a light."

There was the ache and grind of long-unused machinery. Another mechanical arm
appeared, dropping flakes of near-crystallized dirt as it moved. The tip of
the arm exuded light, blue, penetrating, and strange.

Brook, forest, small valley, machine, even herself, were all lit up by the
soft penetrating blue light which did not hurt her eyes. The light even gave
her a sense of well-being. With the light she could read. Traced on the
carapace just above the three heads was this inscription:

    
    
            WAFFENAMT DES SECHSTEN DEUTSCHEN REICHES
            BURG EISENHOWER, A.D. 2495
            And then below it in much larger Latin letters:
            MENSCHENJAGER MARK ELF

~~~
Y_Y
For the benefit of non- German speakers,

    
    
        MENSCHENJAGER MARK ELF
    

is

    
    
        HUMAN-HUNTER MARK ELEVEN
    

like it's a pun on the word "mark" indicating a version of something. Feels
weird that it's not rendered as MARK XI, but that's not as cute a name I
suppose.

~~~
milgrim
What’s the pun?

~~~
Y_Y
Mark Elf sounds like a name (in fact there is a famous guitarist with this
name). I assumed that the purpose was to misdirect us so that there was an
"a-ha" when you discovered the real meaning of the words, a-la a garden-path
joke.

I might be reading too far into it though, apparently the story _was_
originally published as MARK XI[0].

[0] [http://mporcius.blogspot.ca/2014/05/three-stories-by-
cordwai...](http://mporcius.blogspot.ca/2014/05/three-stories-by-cordwainer-
smith-war.html)

------
unixhero
I dont say this lightly.

But: I hate this company.

------
app4soft
Spoiler[1]

    
    
      Law I / A robot may not injure a human or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
      
      Law II / A robot must obey orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
      
      Law III / A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.
    

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I,_Robot_%28film%29](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I,_Robot_%28film%29)

~~~
prteja11
Law 0 / A robot may not harm humanity, or through inaction allow humanity to
come to harm.

This precedes the 3 laws.

Source: Isaac Asimov in Robots and Empire

~~~
daveloyall
Don't forget, when Asimov introduced this new law, those (few) robots that
were governed by it also had a modified First Law: "...except when such action
or inaction would conflict with the Zeroth Law" (paraphrasing). That got
interesting, quick!

