

Adobe's ad : We Love Apple - bjonathan
http://arstechnica.com/

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Terretta
_"What we don't love is anybody taking away your freedom to choose what you
create, how you create it, and what you experience on the web."_

Adobe, you are not the web. Your apps are not the web. And if anyone chooses
to make a device that consumers can choose to use, they are free to not have
your commercial software on it.

Adobe, a few years ago you yourselves refused to release parts of your
"Creative Suite" for the Mac. You refused to maintain feature parity across
platforms. I was free to create how I liked, _as long as I liked Windows._
When you did that, my designer employees needed to switch their computers to
Windows to offer certain features customers wanted. We resented you taking
away our freedom, and we didn't forget.

Adobe, today you are arguing to take away my freedom to use a device that
_doesn't_ include your commercial product, Flash. I chose that device because
it supports installable HTML5 apps I can build with notepad. A child in Africa
can build apps for my iPhone using a text terminal. I don't want that child to
have to buy Creative Suite for a price measured in thousands of dollars.

Adobe, you saying this is about freedom and choice is just like the
recombinant bovine growth hormone (rBGH) milk producers arguing that their
milk must be sold in organic markets. The organic market is free to not stock
your milk, and I'm free to shop at a market that makes that choice. Anyone who
disagrees can shop at the many more markets, and buy the many more brands of
milk, that agree with you.

Adobe, stop dictating that to be free, I must choose Adobe.

~~~
nailer
(accidentally upmodded you)

You seem to be saying that by offering people the ability to view flash
content, Adobe is forcing people to view Flash content. They're not the same
thing.

~~~
Terretta
If I want to view Flash on my smartphone today, I can buy... Well, if I want
to view Flash on my smartphone later this year, I'll buy an Android phone. I
will have that freedom of choice.

Adobe's handwaving is confusing people. Analysts report more Android phones
are getting sold than iPhones. There is choice.

Your remark fails to consider the Whole Foods Market example. Whole Foods
should be free to manage their own brand and inventory. Nobody should force
Whole Foods to offer milk made using rBGH, regardless of whether offering it
means people have to buy it.

~~~
pwhelan
Whole Foods milk is a disingenuous comparison. There is a fundamental
difference in the product and the ethics involved by using hormones. A more
proper comparison would be saying something along the lines of "Ranchers can
only have worn jeans when working on the farm and in the processing plant --
no khakis or anything else." One can produce organic milk wearing whatever
they want -- the end product is still the same. One can produce quality
applications with various tools -- the end product is still good.

If Apple has a problem with the quality of the applications then it should
reject them from the store. It simply doesn't compare to making a
fundamentally different product.

~~~
Terretta
On the contrary, I deliberately selected this example because the farmers
using hormones to mass produce milk fast have successfully lobbied to force
the organic milk farmers to label their organic milk saying "There's no proof
the hormone milk is bad."

It's the same argument here.

The hormones accelerate milk production, like the cross-platform dev tools,
and the end result is claimed to be the same, like you just claimed.
Defensiveness about production methods and indistinguishable product still
don't mean Whole Foods has to stock milk made that way.

~~~
pwhelan
Except there are verifiable differences in the product of hormone augmented,
traditionally industrialized milk and the organic milk Whole Foods stocks.
There are legitimate ethical arguments about environmental impacts and the
treatment of animals between both systems.

There are not legitimate ethical arguments against someone coding something in
python and porting it over to another environment. Without investigating the
company in question, one could not determine what a piece of software was
originally written in.

Even if something is technically legal or not worth pursuing in court, it
still doesn't mean a company isn't acting uncouthly.

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jrnkntl
[http://s0.2mdn.net/1295336/Adobe_Flash_WeLoveAltHead_728x90_...](http://s0.2mdn.net/1295336/Adobe_Flash_WeLoveAltHead_728x90_std.swf)

and

[http://s0.2mdn.net/1295336/Adobe_Flash_WeLoveTechTandem_300x...](http://s0.2mdn.net/1295336/Adobe_Flash_WeLoveTechTandem_300x250_std.swf)

are the ads on that page.

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barredo
I think Adobe is at 3rd phase in the Kübler-Ross model

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model>

1\. Denial – "I feel fine."; "This can't be happening, not to me."

2\. Anger – "Why me? It's not fair!"; "How can this happen to me?"; "Who is to
blame?"

3\. Bargaining – "Just let me live to see my children graduate."; "I'll do
anything for a few more years."; "I will give my life savings if..." "I
understand I will die, but if I could just have more time..."

4\. Depression – "I'm so sad, why bother with anything?"; "I'm going to die...
What's the point?"; "I miss my loved one, why go on?"

5\. Acceptance – "It's going to be okay."; "I can't fight it, I may as well
prepare for it."

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mambodog
I'm just finishing up developing a Flash-based rich media website. My target
audience includes a large contingent of 'art people' so performance on Mac is
fairly important. "We love Apple"? Seeing the jerky, sluggish performance and
massive CPU spikes on Mac OS I find it hard to believe this sentiment.

~~~
qjz
I'm curious: If you knew Flash was going to be problematic for a large part of
your target audience, why did you choose to base your project on it?

~~~
mambodog
For a start, I didn't realise the extent of Flash's Mac woes. I'm familiar
with the problems with CPU usage during video playback (hence I implemented
YouTube's relatively solid player in the site), and since switching to Mac as
my main OS recently I've had a few browser crashes (mainly caused by blip.tv)
but this was eye-opening. Also, there was a desired level of
'WOW'/impressiveness from the client that I don't think I could have met
without Flash. I'm a Flash developer after all, and while I am also proficient
with HTML & CSS, between the current state of browsers and my limited JS
skills it just wasn't going to happen any other way.

To be fair, it only got _really_ bad when I implemented Google Maps' 3D API
for AS3, but even with that, it is still silky smooth on Windows. Needless to
say, I am watching the progress of CSS3 & JS/Canvas as they becomes a more
viable alternative. At the very least, it can be evenly slow across all
platforms ;)

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ElliotH
This is classy stuff. In my opinion a good way of responding to Jobs'
criticsm. Adobe have gone up in my estimation.

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ironkeith
I tried that link on my phone and got redirected to the "mobile" home page,
then couldn't find the article in question. I'm pretty sure people from ars
are in here, if so: please fix this. I read 90% of my news on my phone during
down time. Thanks.

~~~
iclelland
I don't think it's an article. Looks like it's just a banner ad from Adobe.

And it's a Flash banner ad, BTW, so don't even bother trying on your phone ;)

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ams6110
I guess the ad is invisible if you don't have a Flash plugin enabled....

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maukdaddy
The overuse of the "freedom" argument reeks of GWB.

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refik
there is a website for apple and adobe debate <http://applevsadobe.net>

