
YouTube’s top creators are burning out - ilamont
https://www.polygon.com/2018/6/1/17413542/burnout-mental-health-awareness-youtube-elle-mills-el-rubius-bobby-burns-pewdiepie
======
leggomylibro
>This is all I ever wanted. And why the fuck am I so unfucking unhappy? It -
It doesn’t make any sense. You know what I mean? Because, like, this is
literally my fucking dream. And I’m fucking so unfucking happy. It doesn’t
make any fucking sense. It’s so stupid. It is so stupid.

I think that most people who judge themselves by their accomplishments will
run into this at some point. You'll get there, only to find out that there is
no 'there' there.

Philanthropy seems like it might help. It can feel fundamentally impossible to
be happy or content, when you mix a demanding always-on schedule with the very
human desire to always be looking for more. But we also live in a world where
many people never even have the opportunity to pursue happiness, and what
about their hopes and dreams?

It is vicariously rewarding to see someone else learn how to do something and
get excited by their newfound talent. And every hour of your time that you
donate is an hour that you don't have to spend under the pressures of your
audience or your thoughts.

~~~
bjterry
The hedonic treadmill is very real. If you are trying to get to happiness via
achievement you will either fail to achieve the things you want, or you will
realize after achieving them that they haven't made you happier. I've achieved
things in my life. I didn't have any major failures until I was in my mid-20s.
But no matter what achievements I had (or failures), the changes to my
happiness were always temporary.

I pulled on that intellectual thread and learned that this is exactly what you
would expect based on the research. Achieving your goals only achieves short-
term happiness, and if you base your happiness on that, eventually you are
going to reach a goal that stops your happiness dead.

You have to find the things that make you happy, and none of them have a long-
term impact. They are the things you can do to maintain a consistent level of
happiness, if you put in the consistent work. For me, the biggest impact on my
happiness is regular meditation and regular exercise. Research also supports
gratitude journaling and philanthropy. Simple. But NOTHING has a long-term
impact.

To reiterate, the things that work are the things that give you a little boost
of happiness every day, and if you find the right ones you can get to a level
that is good for you through constant maintenance.

This doesn't mean achieving your goals is unimportant. Anyone who knows me
knows that I have a dogged persistence when it comes to achieving goals. But I
don't expect them to make me happy. The key is to recognize that your goals
reflect your values, the things you believe are important whether or not you
expect them to make you happy.

Purchase your happiness separate from your goals, it's much cheaper that way.

~~~
baxtr
I’ve thought about that recently the same way after I lost someone very
important to me. I think the whole thing can be described by a 2-by-2 matrix,
the axes being:

\- pursuing life goals no/yes

\- being happy no/yes

Some people just live their lifes and are simply happy, don’t pursue any goals
at all. Then other people pursue goals without being happy. Of course being in
the top quadrant is optimal, but many people decide to optimize for one axis
only. I realized that I’m in the bottom left...

~~~
gepi79
It is easier to have pleasant feelings and a pleasant judgement of life if:

\- one has money and success and other things that meet the personal criteria
of a good life.

\- one has none of the problems related to poverty and failure and frustration
and health issues.

Feelings are triggered by hormones and the nervous system.

E.g. panic attacks are related to too much epinephrine (adrenaline).

Quote from the article: “My life just changed so fast,” Elle Mills said in a
video from May 18. “My anxiety and depression keeps getting worse and worse.
I’m literally just waiting for me to hit my breaking point.”

I guess being creative on youtube also means (too) much physical and emotional
stress for some people. Especially for those who already suffer from anxiety
and/or depression.

Dramatic change or lack of change despite efforts is also stressful.

------
d1zzy
Not just Youtube but this is all very applicable to Twitch livestreamers too.
I noticed it on myself, it's a strange thing.

I started doing amateur game streams on Twitch (nothing serious, got a few
regular viewers) but even tho I try to make an effort to just relax/chill and
take it easy, I can't help but feel a bit stressed trying to be at my most
entertaining version throughout the whole stream. Combined with having a
regular schedule (even if it's just 2 hours of stream twice a week) it quickly
builds up a certain stress that can only be described as stress similar to
having a job. I end up hating the thought of "oh no, tomorrow I have a stream
again" when I should be excited for it, I mean it's a hobby, it's supposed to
make me feel good. But strange enough I spend 10 times more time at work and I
rarely get this stressed.

It's hard to explain. I don't know exactly why this type of activity can
become stressful so quickly. Maybe because it's much more related to how I
feel in general. If I have a few bad days it's not going to affect much how I
code at work (maybe reduce overall productivity/speed but code quality should
be in the same ballpark). But if I feel bad I simply cannot be as entertaining
as I can when I feel good and that stresses me out and I make an effort to
still be entertaining, on schedule. Maybe that's what it is :)

~~~
nickjj
It's not just videos and streaming too. Anyone who creates content has these
issues.

Even blogging has the same effect on you and it really sucks because everyone
will say "you need a schedule because it's what people expect, they need to
know when to tune back in".

But once you do this, your whole mentality changes from sporadically posting
something interesting because you overcame some obstacle and wanted to share
your newfound knowledge to "it's time to think about next week's post, and it
must be done because your schedule dictates a new post in 2 days".

It's very stressful, even if you enjoy it.

~~~
perlgeek
With blogs, at least you can write some posts in advance, and use them to fill
in the schedule if you're not creative/productive/healthy/whatever once. I've
used this pretty successfully to maintain a 1post/week schedule for over a
year.

No such option with live streaming.

~~~
nickjj
Yeah, no doubt about it, streaming is way more demanding.

I usually prepare at least 3 posts in advance, but this has its flaws too
because sometimes a certain topic is interesting "today", but it's not that
interesting a month from now.

Also a lot of my posts come from experiencing something first hand and I find
it to be a better writing experience if I write about what happened shortly
after it happened, instead of weeks in the future when details might get
stale.

Lastly, some posts take multiple days to write too, so it's not like you can
just say to yourself "I'm going to crank out 4 top quality posts today and I'm
set for the month".

------
rdiddly
This is just a modern newfangled manifestation of a problem artists have
always had: When your rent payment depends on your art (I am deliberately
sidestepping the question of "what is art?") you are in a shitty situation
indeed. What used to be fun turns into a chore. It's better to have a day job,
even though it means you can't spend _the whole day_ doing your thing. (I
wouldn't necessarily want to anyway, and I don't think I'm alone in that.)

Think of your art or fun hobby as like a horse. Making it pay for your rent
and food is like throwing a heavy saddle on its back and sitting on it. If you
let a day job carry you (or a patron or parent etc.), your thing is suddenly
freed from your heavy ass and you can remove the saddle altogether. It will be
a lot happier, treat you better, and incidentally run a lot faster too!

~~~
egypturnash
I dunno, I’ve been absolutely delighted that Patreon has made it possible to
pay my rent by drawing arcane comics about robot ladies with Phillip K Dick
problems and cartoon animals in space. Especially since I don’t have to crank
out product every single day without any break like these Youtube kids do; I
can actually have downtime to go for a walk in the park, watch a movie, play a
video game... these folks sound absolutely miserable in part because they are
_constantly_ working on stuff for their channels, without a chance to build up
a buffer, or ever do _anything_ else besides bars survival necessities.

To extend your analogy, these folks have to ride that horse all day, every
day, from dawn to dusk, and they are starting to get some serious saddle
sores.

~~~
egypturnash
(And for what it’s worth, when I believed all the advice from web comics folks
from the pre-RSS era that you _have_ to set a schedule and stick to it, no
matter what, I was starting to get pretty miserable. When shifted my official
update schedule from “Tuesday/Thursday” to “aim for two days a week, don’t
fret if life gets in the way”, my job satisfaction shot _way_ up.)

------
rubatuga
Has anyone watched the Netflix series bojack horseman? It seems to deal with
this topic of burnout and mental health in a very realistic and touching way.
In case you haven’t seen it, it’s about an actor who makes it big for one tv
show but becomes aimless and depressed once the show was over.

~~~
foobaw
Just wanted to say: this show is amazing and I recommend everyone to watch it.

~~~
AceyMan
Just pointing out for the historical record: this is an animated show, not
live action.

I will be checking it out, tho, for certain.

------
nstart
In January I tweeted [1] a small thread about how the newer daily uploaders,
especially vloggers do have a problem that they are creating for themselves.
Spectacle over story. I've studied many of the top vloggers from YouTube
rewind and without exception they play the similar part of exaggerated acts to
sell the mundane.

Contrast this to Casey Neistat or purge gamers who started their narratives to
bring about what's unique about them.

There's hardly a facade on any of it. I qualified what I meant by acting in my
tweets. In the case of purge, it's Kevin being Kevin. He'll read patch notes
for 7 hours and doesn't give a toot about what the watch count could be for
that. He's active on twitch but without any mad acts and crazy tricks for the
fans. His unique sauce is just being super analytical. So he does just that
with no crazy voice or "YouTube face".

Either one of Casey or purge could be on the verge of needing a break. But
they've been doing this a lot longer than any of the new stars and still seem
very comfortable being themselves.

This is not to shit on the current Gen of daily content creators. I'm just
worried a lot of them are not going to deeply understand why they are actually
getting burnt out. They are doing excessive amounts of work where the primary
requirement is to shed your self. There is very little difference between what
they do and ye Joe average 28 year old working daily at a software engineering
job that pays well but forces the worker to wake up with existential dread
each morning.

Realising this might mean that some of these content creators might have a
reckoning where they realise that long term they have nothing innately unique
to offer the world of YouTube. I'm worried none of them will come to that
conclusion simply because their brains are going to be fighting back saying
"but this is what I always wanted".

We are all capable of getting what we think we want to do wrong. No shame in
that. Just be willing to save yourself.

1:
[https://twitter.com/kiriappeee/status/953547948754862080?s=1...](https://twitter.com/kiriappeee/status/953547948754862080?s=19)

~~~
Swizec
Great comment! Loved it.

One thing to note is that Casey Neistat _did_ burn out, stopped daily vlogging
for almost a year, and said that even before he stopped, he felt his vlogs
were not up to par because he didn't have the energy/time to make them better.

Now he's back to daily vlogging, but he's back with a whole production team
helping him out.

Similarly GaryVee doesn't seem to burn out on daily vlogging, but that's
because he outsources all of it. He goes about his day saying stuff that's
useful and someone else records it then puts it together into an episode.

------
cf498
I think a largely ignored aspect is the unwanted celebrity effect setting in
with the pressure to stay relevant. Because once you are doing it and have
crazed "fans" showing up your door and calling your friends and family you
better make a living off it. Because its unlikely they will stop once you want
to be done. And your boss is unlikely to be understanding once they show up at
her or his business.

Ironically, this is the lesson a lot of persons learned when they were kids on
4chan and co. Never put your information out there. Never ever period. It will
ruin your life longterm. The internet is not a nice place. It is sadly a
lesson, many people who grew up with facebook and youtube never learned. A lot
of them were likely full of optimism and had a very sudden awakening where the
path back out was no longer viable.

There are rather simple examples like this moment

[https://youtu.be/aGmt5neXURs?t=491](https://youtu.be/aGmt5neXURs?t=491)

And to be blunt, even she was naive when it came to showing the skyline. Have
the right/wrong viewer and you are screwed.

There is a rather sad example of the German Youtuber "drachenlord". He is a
fringe youtuber, out of work and is bullied by people in the hundreds. Yet it
is his livelihood now and thus there are scenes like this

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-27CsOBn5HE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-27CsOBn5HE)

where he is selling posters.

I still think the south park episode about brittney spears is sadly relevant.

~~~
felipemnoa
About the second video, could you please provide some context?

~~~
cf498
His address is widely circulated and he has people showing up at his house in
the middle of nowhere regularly including trowing in his window and general
vandalism . Thus he decided to make the best of it and sell some posters
behind his fence. By now the whole villages hates him, the police is fed up
because he invited people and he files complaints against some of them for
vandalism.

He wasnt that well adjusted to begin with and is completely out of his depth
by now. He is a rather overblown phenomenon because he is incapable to deal
with the attention but the basic problem is rather common. Sadly youtubers are
at the disadvantage towards normal celebrities as their stalkers get to group
up easily. I think very few are prepared for that kind of attention

------
rdl
The crazy and arbitrary demonetization seems like the biggest problem.
Anything to the right of YouTube senior management, anything which touches on
things they don't like (firearms, including historical information about bolt-
action Swiss rifles of the early 1900s), anything even slightly offensive to
anyone, etc. runs that risk (although not guaranteed). If you offend anyone,
others can retroactively go back and flag innocuous videos, either for content
or as a "copystrike".

Some of this is the biases of the YouTube management and employees, some is
the beliefs of advertisers, but it seems incompetently implemented. Many
advertisers would be perfectly happy running in front of "offensive" content
in their same domain (e.g. any ammo company would happily run ads before a
video about guns; maybe Disney wouldn't), etc. So they are basically making up
for limitations in their product with arbitrary and destructive policies
against the content creators.

I hope a non-YouTube, non-Google platform disrupts them ASAP, although this
only seems to be happening inside verticals (like Full30 for firearms).

~~~
ghaff
Dominant distribution channels have always come with their own arbitrary rules
and randomness. It used to be the networks for video.

It's not that there's any shortage of video and other content distribution
platforms. People just want the discovery and monetization associated with
YouTube while not wanting to deal with everything that comes from getting in
bed with the elephant.

------
VikingCoder
Entertainment is great.

But it's also meaningless. Ephemeral. Fading.

If you're improving someone else's life, that's a bit more tangible.

I know people who would have died if they hadn't discovered that helping other
people makes them feel like life is worth living.

So, maybe if you vlog stuff that helps people, that might make it more
satisfying.

Just a thought.

------
MistahKoala
There's a whole 'sub'-culture around very young (as in, pre-teenage) toy and
unboxing vloggers who have got themselves (and/or have been enabled by
parents) on to this YouTube production treadmill (not exclusively YT, but
Insta, too). The self- and peer-generated pressure to increase views, shares,
total viewing time, and in turn, churn out fresh and engaging content and the
requisite social engagement is relentless, even if it's not on the same scale
of these YT celebs. It's perhaps greater in some ways, due to the shoestring
nature of most of them, lacking the specialist skills and resources to work
productively, and having to wear multiple hats that professional content
producers co-ordinate through a team. It's a massive time-suck on parents and
children; I can't help but think there are going to be some latent
consequences to this wide-scale phenomena amongst schoolchildren.

~~~
ghostbrainalpha
I had a concept designed to target the un-boxing video trend, but it failed
really badly.

It's called a "Re-Boxing" video. First kids are happily playing with a mess of
toys. Then a parent comes in and tells them it's time to put that shit away.

The sad kids then have to put their toys away in boxes, and then put them
completely away neatly in closets and such. The camera then just focuses on
the nice clean floor.

Now that I think about it, maybe I should have targeted these videos at
parents instead of children. Well; Live and learn I guess...

~~~
gowld
You could have saved a lot of work by just playing unboxing vids in reverse.
Like the "Reaction" genre, it's the "Reverse" genre.

------
_trampeltier
Already years ago deleted Photonicinduction his whole Youtube chanel because
he said it was to much stress. People allways wanna see something bigger. He
also had a problem when other people started to copy his content and others
went to huge HV Labs and said "I'm better and can do it bigger than
Photonicinduction".

So he deleted all his content.

But he came back and still do some videos.
[https://m.youtube.com/user/Photonvids/featured](https://m.youtube.com/user/Photonvids/featured)

------
chiefalchemist
The Sisyphusian struggle is real. Stop producing and revenue dwindles. Life
becomes less about life and more about the next "pay cheque."

But much like repeated drug use the buzz wears off and the futility of your
existence stares back at you in the mirror.

But with less new creators, what is YT going to do?

It's almost starting to feel like social media is becoming a hula hoop. Fun
while it lasted. Everyone was doing it. But as the novelty wears off so does
the mass and its gravity.

~~~
marcosdumay
> But with less new creators, what is YT going to do?

Somebody else will take the viewers. Older celebrities getting out never
killed any communication means. What kill those is lack of new people to take
their place. YT seems to not be suffering from the later.

~~~
chiefalchemist
Perhaps. But will they be as good? I doubt it. The smart / best ones, knowing
the futility, will take their time and energy elsewhere. It's a brain drain of
sorts.

If the risk doesn't match the rewards the best will look to apply their energy
elsewhere.

~~~
marcosdumay
If the platform does not lose the younger public, yes, they will be just as
good. People burning out on media is as old as language.

------
sushisource
Maybe it's just my linux box but what the hell is up with the font? EvErYthInG
in THiS ArTiCle lOOKs liKE tHiS SEntENCe

~~~
Geee
I tried Linux in 2008 and abandoned it because of font issues. Seems like they
haven't fixed it yet.

~~~
Sylos
You're responding to someone who is surprised by there being font issues. If
it was a common sight, they wouldn't complain about it like this.

And it really is not a common sight. I have not had any problems with fonts in
the three years that I'm using Linux.

------
cf498
Working around the clock and having to be perfect all the time and this isnt a
surprise.

------
dsubburam
I like to evaluate a job across four metrics:

1\. livelihood: does it provide enough $$.

2\. meaning: the end product/service, do I find it meaningful.

3\. people: do I interact with colleagues, customers, etc. whom I find
interesting and respect.

4\. process: do I find the work in and of itself enjoyable, tending to put me
in a flow state.

The YouTubers might be lacking in 3., and depending on their personal
tastes/needs, possibly the others too.

------
linsomniac
Patreon seems to be in a good position to help the creators with the
demonitization situation. One of my favorite Youtube creators has a good day
job and seems to deliberately try to trigger the demonitization in his videos.
But he has a Patreon that he uses to both fund the videos and to limit the
first day or so of release of new videos to fans. I get the impression this
helps kick-start the video so that it doesn't get flagged, based on what he
has said about it.

Youtube is in an interesting position right now. They have a lot of great
content, but there are obvious huge problems standing in the way of run-away
success. Finding new content is another of the big problems, I use Youtube a
lot for "edutainment", but the recommendations engine doesn't really give me
much diversity. And the diversity I explore seems to just confuse their
recommendations.

------
chrshawkes
YouTube is a constant grind. As a YouTuber with 15 million views and 100k
subs, I can attest to this being a real thing.

~~~
gowld
Why? Why not post less often? Is YouTube more of a grind than any job?

~~~
otalp
15 million views will give you around 20,000 dollars. Just on the verge of
being livable but not yet. If you stop now it's very hard to regain the
momentum.

~~~
Scoundreller
You're assuming CPM ads. I assume sponsorship tie-ins, affiliates, promos,
etc. is where the real money is at, which you can negotiate directly for at
that scale.

~~~
wfsn
Depending on the content, that's not always available. And while it's a more
stable source of income with only 15 million views it's unlikely to be a major
income stream

------
exabrial
Cody Don, an incredible scientist, has to keep taking down his videos on
mining because they involved [legal] explosives. AvE had had his share of
complaints. And don't forget the myriad of firearm channels that are fighting
for their livelihood.

While YouTube is a private platform and they are welcome to display whatever
content they feel, it is against American ideals to censor creativity and
speech if fellow citizens.

~~~
rdl
Has AvE ever had videos actually taken down, or just demonetized? He seems
like he'd respond with something colorful and abrasive suggesting one consider
carnal relations with headworn attire.

------
deltron3030
If you have an audience you depend on, you can't really change without risking
of losing that audience. On one hand humans get used to anything (e.g.
lifestyle), and otoh they also feel the need to change and make personal
progress. Of course you'll be unhappy if you're used to your status quo and
think you can't change for the better anymore.

------
gamerslife22
Sidequest: work/life balance of an addict: 'No one tells you how many hours
you should be addicted!'

Jet again another:'Striving for _more_user_ engagement'? I am just trying to
get a little bit canibalism-humor out of: "googleᵀᴹ is eating children"... (-;

------
FrozenVoid
Its really simple, they turned their hobby into work with impossible schedules
and really bad overtime. They're unhappy because the work they invented for
themselves isn't based on their interests but for popularity and viewers
interests. They are afraid of losing audience and missing out of more
exposure, because their work defines them as a person - if they start losing
popularity/attention their persona was based on, it knocks them down a peg,
like a celebrity in the end of their career. So they double down on their
work.

------
voltagex_
I recently watched Avicii: True Stories [1]. The film looks to have been
completed before his death and is all the more sad for it. It's worth watching
to see what happens when people are suddenly put into a high pressure, high
performance environment

1: [http://unogs.com/video/?v=80097519](http://unogs.com/video/?v=80097519)
looks to be available on Netflix in the EU, but for some reason nowhere else.

------
throwaaa_zzz
One aspect is that perhaps the concept of a middleman or agent for creative
people is not as bad as people claim it to be. It shields you from the fans
and a lot more.

------
sp332
I was thinking of this when I saw an article earlier today about teens moving
to youtube over Facebook. You can learn a lot of things on youtube but one
thing you can't learn is how not to make a youtube video about it. For
example, you can learn how to build a PC on youtube, but you can't learn how
to build a PC without posting a build video on youtube, on youtube.

~~~
twic
The one thing you can't learn from a book is how to build a PC without writing
a book about it.

I really like this insight, but i don't know what to do with it.

~~~
sp332
People who watch a lot of youtube will start to feel like making youtube
videos is a very common thing for average people to do. They won't realize
that it takes an unusually large amount of resources and lifestyle changes to
have a successful channel.

------
vinayms
I don't follow individuals on YouTube but I come across their videos when
sucked into the "up next vortex". If they impress me, I check their channel to
see what else they have posted. This is my take based on this experience.

Most youtubers are one or more of these three:

1\. They comment on things, either current events or things in general. 2\.
They are self designated experts in their field and dole out tips and advice.
3\. They make original content of some kind, like comedy skits or other art
forms.

Then there are the so called bottom feeders, the scourge of modern YouTube,
the makers of reaction videos.

Their channels are updated quite frequently, if not daily at most one per
week. Only small proportion of the videos is worth watching. The rest is total
waste of time. Subscribers often vent their frustration in the comments about
the content, but for most people you'd have to go past several pages to see
disgruntled comments. The top ones are usually favorable ones, and I am unsure
of their authenticity.

The fundamental problem is that these youtubers mistook dumb luck for talent.
When, for some inexplicable reason, some of their early videos went viral,
they were egged on by their ego to post more, which is fine. But soon when
they ran out of content, instead of quitting or taking a break to regroup,
they continued to post substandard content.

I know I am being overtly judgemental by using words like 'substandard', and
one might contest that by showing how popular these people are - some were
even guests on popular US talk shows (one shiela was even on Conan) - but that
is my point. I am amazed at the success they got despite such content. I
wonder what kind of people are impressed by such content. Its one of the great
sociological mysteries to me because, unlike a low quality TV show that
persists due to studio bosses persisting with it for whatever reason, on
social media things survive due to direct audience interest.

Quality intellectual output is quite hard. Even the most gifted comedian won't
be funny all the time, the most gifted musician won't make good music all the
time, the most gifted philosopher won't say deep thought provoking things all
the time. In the current state of society where instant gratification is
craved, people don't understand this, and it shows in how mediocrity succeeds
time and again in all walks of life.

I think this burn out thing is their coming to terms with their lack of
quality content and sort of giving up being an imposter. That said, some of
the youtubers who post original content are indeed good. If they take time off
and develop their talent, they could make a proper career out of it.

------
chasd00
You never get paid to do what you love what you love just ends up turning into
a job.

------
jimjimjim
youtube/streaming is a low-barrier to entry version of being an actor.

so all the crap that actors/actresses put up with is likely to apply to
youtube/twitch people.

dreams, pressure, long-hours, fame, ratings anxiety, envy, fans, meltdowns.
etc.

------
himom
_Your Daily Dose of Internet_ guy is teetering on burnout from solo grind.

------
wayanon
Welcome to self-employment: Twice the work for half the pay.

------
bitL
I see the push to publish frequently has turned YouTube into a perfect hamster
wheel :D

Another funny consequence of algorithmic optimization. Seems like people that
came up with it weren't as smart as they thought. Hint: if 99.99% of your
users are consumers and 0.01% are creative producers, from whose only 1/1000
can consistently perform, you wouldn't want to drive them to the ground. Also,
pushing increased frequency inevitable lowers quality and increases noise of
your platform and prevents unique but occasional hits from being properly
rewarded. Is that really good for advertisement?

~~~
ozim
Ideally people would create content and ones that create more often would have
more relevant, better videos because they are committed and professional. It
all looks like it went "Cobra effect" where algo incentives are right but
people are gaming system so they get profits. The same with SEO, more links to
your site better ranking -> people invent link farms. While idea was great in
practice all turns out you got bunch of people breeding cobras, links, videos.

------
Abishek_Muthian
When the idea is to showcase what others want you to be and not what you
actually want to be; I doubt long-term happiness is on the line.

------
HONEST_ANNIE
Many youtubers emote (portray emotion in a theatrical manner) the events and
issues they narrate. Their work description is simply to be emotionally
enthusiastic of whatever happens.

If the content of the channel is not deeply meaningful for it's creator
anymore, the job loses meaning. The attention and popularity are rewarding but
the effect wears out. If the enthusiasm is not genuine, it starts to feel bad.

------
frugalmail
I didn't even know about this person, and this got her a view from me. I just
fell into the trap of watching a useless "vlogger".

Not that I don't acknowledge mental health as an actual malady, Some people
truely need help. Just that I think this particular case is bogus. Especially
when your so called break involves creating so much video.

------
wlkjd
I'm a youtuber with 30M views and 300k+ subs and I can totally see how this is
happening.

Luckily, I'm a little older and have worked in entertainment with the talent
side previously, so I've already had my burn out phase and have also seen and
understand what fame and/or public attention does to someone, especially if
they're mentally unwell.

Not tooting my own horn, but it takes incredible discipline and foresight to
not get sucked into this vortex of needing to please your audience and
sponsors and to do everything all at once.

We live in a time when things that are extremely hard or time-consuming are
supposed to happen quickly and easily (the magic of editing!) No more is this
apparent than on youtube. The main audience on YT are in their mid-20's and
younger, who basically grew up in a world where literally everything is at
their fingertips, at the drop of a hat. This definitely reflects in their
media consumption patterns/platforms of choice. The problem is that for
someone in a business where you (or a small team) basically do everything and
are pressured by fans and revenue generators/sponsors to keep putting out
content at a crazy pace, it becomes all-consuming and unsustainable.

I told our team from day one that collectively, the audience doesn't care
about you - they're vampires. They're voracious and fickle and only care about
you so long as you keep giving them that sweet, delicious content. Yet, if you
start off on the right foot, you can keep their appetites satiated without
screwing yourself over.

My partner and small team and I decided early on that we'd focus on better
content less often, and keep engagement on the platform with fans to a
manageable amount. We knew this would impact revenue and growth, but for our
literal sanity, it was necessary and we're so thankful to have started this
way. We made very little money the first year of doing the business but each
year has gotten bigger and better and sponsors/brands have come through citing
the lack of us "whoring" ourselves out for a quick buck or views as the reason
they're wanting to pay us 6 figures to work together. So while it might seem
like we're giving up fame and riches, you're only partially right - definitely
giving up fame, but the revenue growth has been incredible because we've
stayed the course and kept our heads about us.

As a fan of other channels on the platform, especially Elle Mills and Casey
Neistat, you see that mental illness is a big issue and putting someone
already fragile in a position to deal with immense pressure to produce more
and more that it becomes a pressure cooker and too much to handle. Elle is the
perfect example of this. As a fan of Casey's I'm often struck by his lack of
empathy or understanding that filming constantly, and then editing for 4-8
hours everyday, all while getting 3-4 hours of sleep with little downtime is
not sustainable for 99.999% of people. I'm still unsure if he's one of the few
people that need that little sleep or he maybe is a little bi-polar. As
evidence of the effects of his punishing schedule, he recently started working
with a filmmaker named Dan Mace. He was constantly sleeping on camera, missing
small things in edits, etc that you can't help but feel for him. Casey even
goaded him on a little bit and told him this is how you have to work to be
successful on Youtube - he's not wrong, but he's also not understanding that
success means different things to different people. He clearly loves/needs the
attention, so I get why he thinks this way, but he's missing the bigger
picture outside his little world. Keeping up with Casey's schedule looks
punishing on it's easiest day and is the surest way to get burnt out, all in
the service of something, quite frankly, so fickle.

TLDR; Audiences are like vampires and there's immense pressure on creators to
constantly create/earn revenue/build audience which is not good for anyone
mentally healthy and disastrous for someone not mentally fit.

~~~
ISL
> I told our _team_ from day one

That italicized word makes a huge difference in avoiding burnout. When a team
is right, many things are possible. If it is missing, there is no support for
burnout.

~~~
wlkjd
You're not wrong, but my partner's role was only in the videos for the first
year and we both have full time jobs outside of this. It helped, but not as
much as you'd think, I pretty much did 99% of everything myself.

------
ibdf
Sex sells, but you can't put that on youtube, so the next best thing is drama.
Everybody loves some drama.

~~~
felipemnoa
>>Sex sells, but you can't put that on youtube, so the next best thing is
drama

Not really. Just like everything else it is only the top percent of any
industry that rakes all the money.

------
Applejinx
I'm more of a Patreoner, making around $1000 a month through Patreon and my
audio DSP plugins and around $20 a month from YouTube. I have a good sense of
why these people are burning out.

The only reason I'm able to do that well (still far below minumum wage, if
minimum wage legitimately gave you 40 hours a week which I think generally it
won't) is that I spent close to ten years entrepreneurially running the same
business as a commercial proposition, all by myself. I made between twice and
four times as much selling plugins directly to people, but it was COMPLETELY
unpredictable and the Patreon is not nearly as unpredictable: provided they
don't implode, it's a slow steady growth curve as more people discover what I
do.

And going commercial didn't protect me from things imploding: I went to
Patreon because I'd been using Kagi as a payment processor, and they imploded.
They still owe me two months' pay that I will never see. Patreon was one of
those bold intuitive jumps where I went 'I'm happier giving my work away,
let's gamble my whole life on this working, and if it fails, whatever, I
didn't want to live anyway'. Turned out I was able to survive on it, and the
relative predictability of the admittedly-lower income is good for my mental
health.

That was where keeping up a better-than-monthly grind of product releases got
me, when I absolutely depended on having 'hit' products to sell to make up for
the ones that fizzled, and never knew what was actually going to hit. It's
this which is killing the YouTubers.

It's not just that they don't know which videos will go viral, it's that they
also don't know what the rules are or will be, and worse, they are subject to
being algorithmically handicapped in a way they are blind to. The whole system
is set up to goad them on to unrealistic behavior, and appears to silently
punish them for failure to comply. All they can do is cling to cargo-cult-like
obsessive lowest-common-denominator stuff and double down on what they think
will help them, which is never actually confirmed by YouTube. This is a recipe
for killing people, in action.

Being an entrepreneur and small business owner is already sort of fraught with
uncertainty: you can fall back on 'if I work hard and do what I do, I can get
through to a certain number of people and build a following'. Being a
'Youtuber' is more than twice as bad, because it's that except that your
platform can and does literally stop you getting through to your own people if
they want to connect your people to some newer youtuber that they would rather
stick in the recommendations. The very act of getting through at all is
subject to restriction by the YouTube that you're working for, so it's no
wonder people are going insane trying to please YouTube.

~~~
adbachman
> It's not just that they don't know which videos will go viral, it's that
> they also don't know what the rules are or will be, and worse, they are
> subject to being algorithmically handicapped in a way they are blind to...

That’s a fantastic summary. We’re all, viewers and creators, rats hitting the
lever, not sure when it’ll give us a fresh burst of satisfaction.

------
retox
YouTube is the plantation, farming up views, Google the slave master and the
algo is their whip.

~~~
VikingCoder
...except anyone can leave and get a new job, at any moment.

The "slave" analogy is completely flawed.

~~~
throwaaa_zzz
It is not an analogy, it is a stylistic exaggeration.

European literature is full of this and educated people are expected to detect
it as such.

~~~
VikingCoder
You can just call it "hyperbole."

It's a cheap trick which is why it belongs in dramatic literature, not in a
discussion based on reason and facts.

Another cheap trick is making an alternate throw-away account rather than
having a history of comments that people can refer to, to see if you have
contributed positively in the past, or if you're just an obnoxious troll.

------
josu
Nothing on the top but a bucket and a mop

And an illustrated book about birds

------
zeth___
The sort of person who goes for a job in the public eye is not the sort of
person who is mentally stable. The constant need for validation from other
will in due course found to be yet another mental illness.

That entertainment industries are filled with people like this suffering while
being ridiculously successful is a universal across virtually all media.

~~~
xenihn
>The constant need for validation from other will in due course found to be
yet another mental illness.

Do personality disorders count as mental illness, or are they distinct?

~~~
zeth___
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

Psychology is fad based, mostly bullshit and still not able to deal with the
fact that correlation does not imply causation.

So to answer your question: who cares, these people need help.

~~~
gowld
In psychological science "personality disorders" are a class of so-called
"disorders" that _other_ people believe are bad, but that the person with the
"disorder" does _not_ believe is bad.

It is controversial to claim that someone with a "personality disorder" needs
help.

See:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egosyntonic_and_egodystonic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egosyntonic_and_egodystonic)

~~~
perl4ever
'"personality disorders" are a class of so-called "disorders" that other
people believe are bad but that the person with the "disorder" does not
believe is bad'

I don't think that's accurate. A "personality disorder" doesn't necessarily
involve anosognosia, nor is it limited to things that cause conflict with
other people like borderline or narcissistic personality disorders.

------
anoncoward111
If rent and other serious expenses weren't so costly, then we wouldn't need to
work as much.

Then we could all breathe a little bit and work a reasonable schedule with a
healthy appreciation for creativity.

------
ucaetano
Just like any other celebrities?

------
romanovcode
Talk about first world problems.

~~~
falcolas
FTA: “Like, this is the ultimate. And if you achieve this kind of success on
this platform, which so many people try to do, like, how dare you complain
about it? It is difficult to talk about because unless you’ve been in this
position, I think it’s challenging to empathize with it.”

Of course, I think this also very neatly summarizes our views on mental health
and mental issues.

------
techntoke
They even go as far as threatening suicide to make money:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKBgVlvPXZE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKBgVlvPXZE)

