
Ask HN: How to deal with unskilled devs that are older than you? - k__
Most of the older devs I worked with were, as one would expect, much more skilled than me and I could learn many things from them.<p>But once in a while I work with devs that are really unskilled programmers despite the fact that they are much older than me and longer in the job.<p>They regularly cause bugs that let the whole dev team look bad.<p>I want them to get better, but I don&#x27;t know how to talk to them about this without sounding like an asshole.<p>Also, I don&#x27;t know if they even have a chance to get better if they&#x27;re much longer on the job and are still that bad.<p>How would you deal with that issue?
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davismwfl
Age has nothing to do with experience or capability. Time on the job usually
does indicate some level of skill, but can be misleading.

I have worked with insanely talented devs that introduced more bugs per module
than intermediate skilled devs did. At the same time they moved the product
forward faster, better and more consistently. So we would support them with
some intermediate to senior devs to follow up on their work and to
"productize" it. My point being is bugs doesn't always mean incapable, just
sometimes people are better at one part of the job than another. Those same
devs would never be able to cut it building vital systems or doing maintenance
and they shouldn't cause their skills would be misused.

Assuming these people aren't in the misused skills category, the best thing
you can do is not to approach it as they are a problem. Instead if person X
introduced a new bug say, I'd go to him/her and say can you walk me through
your latest fix/code as I am trying to understand your thought process (and
how you tested it). Essentially a code review with less formality. The idea is
not to be confrontational but to let him/her walk you through it as you ask
questions, especially when you get to what you think is the root problem.
Doing this either they will get better, you'll learn something or you'll find
a way to maybe help the team manage their work product better. At a minimum,
after doing this a few times you'll have a solid understanding where the
problem is and can help articulate that if needed to those who need to know.

Also, using the above method, you may also find out that they were tasked in a
way that was faulty so their assumption was bad. Or they didn't ask enough
questions to understand the task for any reason. An easy way to help someone
in that situation is to ask detailed questions if they aren't asking them,
this way you (or someone on the team) makes sure they have a full
understanding.

The asshole way is to say Bob your code sucks and you are introducing a ton of
errors making us all look bad, all your code has to be checked by Susy from
now on. This may be something that has to be done as part of a performance
plan eventually, but it shouldn't be the place anyone starts.

------
xrd
A few questions:

Are they new to the role or team? Any codebase can be challenging if it is
badly written, even with 40 years of experience. Often senior developers know
the "right" way to write software and really struggle to deal with problematic
codebases. New developers might not see an alternative to a poorly written
codebase, but for a senior developer, thinking about how it could/should be
written takes up mindspace that makes making changes to it even harder.

That first question hopefully invites you to be empathetic. Can you do that?
Consider this: you say there are bugs that make the team look bad, suggesting
you aren't looking out for them but for you. Can you step into their life for
a moment?

Are they open to pairing and working together? What could you teach them? Are
you willing to do that, being vulnerable in your own way?

------
__warlord__
Teach them, is the best way for you to learn more and for them to learn more
:) Age should not be a concern in someone else's skills.

------
bufferoverflow
That's your manager's job. Work on your own tasks, stop trying to play someone
you aren't. Concentrate on improving yourself, and if your manager's don't
kick them out, search for a new place to work at.

~~~
k__
> stop trying to play someone you aren't

I don't try to play anything. I just want everyone to get better at what they
do.

~~~
bufferoverflow
Start a school for shitty programmers?

