
Inside the Creation of the Microsoft Surface Book - _nh_
http://mashable.com/2015/10/07/microsoft-surface-book-inside-story/
======
anjc
What a bizarre conclusion at the end. Is it a Macbook alternative? Yes but no,
because "Switching ecosystems is dicey business."

Tech journalist's reasons for the Surface not being a viable option are
getting ridiculous. The SP1 apparently wasn't powerful enough as a laptop and
didn't have the battery of a tablet. The SP2 was powerful enough with a longer
battery, but it's hard to use full Windows in a touch device. The SP3 is
powerful enough, long lasting battery enough, light enough, with a big enough
screen to use via touch, but then "lapability" became a metric in articles.
Now everything's great, but "switching ecosystems is dicey business".

It's strange the way goalposts keep getting shifted with each iteration. I
switched completely to the MS ecosystem with the SP3 and it was easy.

~~~
untog
Switching ecosystems _is_ dicey business, though. I definitely want a Surface
Book, but my entire development setup is now UNIX-centric having used a
Macbook since 2006(?). It's not that I can't switch back, but there's a big,
$1,500 leap into the unknown to be made, which is a professional risk.

~~~
m52go
The point (as I understood anjc) is that "switching ecosystems is dicey
business" would be a ridiculous statement to make in a review for an Apple
product.

The press tends to treat Microsoft like Cinderella's stepmother treated her:
unreasonably critical.

~~~
untog
I actually find it kind of interesting.

Historically, Apple absolutely would have been the risky platform to go for (I
waited until their Intel laptops, using Boot Camp as an insurance policy). But
these days people have iPhones, iPads, some even have Apple TVs... the Apple
hardware ecosystem is actually far stronger than Microsoft's. You absolutely
_are_ risking that syncing with your iPhone etc will be worse.

~~~
sbov
Why are people trying to bend over backwards here? Let's step outside the
startup world for some facts:

iPhone market share in the US is 43%. Macbook market share is 12%. So the vast
majority of iPhone users are "risking" this.

Which is really not a risk at all, because if it really were a risk Apple
would be shooting themselves in the foot. They would be killing one of their
most successful products for the sake of some of their least.

~~~
jon-wood
I don't know for sure how many iPhone users have ever plugged their device
into a computer for anything other than a quick battery top up, but my hunch
is most people just don't sync phones with computers any more, they sync them
with iCloud or Google. I don't own an iPhone, but I've never even attempted to
synchronise my phone with my laptop - contacts, calendar, and email come from
Google, music from Spotify, and video from Netflix or Amazon. The closest I've
come is copying some photos off the SD card.

~~~
muddi900
But that is on Apple. Copying music to an iPhone is about as cumbersome as
Apple can make it without destroying their music business.

~~~
bluedino
You just add it to playlist in iTunes

------
nilkn
I'd _really_ like to get one of these as my next laptop/mobile computing
device.

However, with the Surface Pro 4 (and all previous iterations), it seems
impossible to actually use on your lap. Granted, I haven't had an opportunity
to try it, but the kickstand and attachable keyboard seem like they only work
on an actual desk. I very rarely use my current laptop, a MacBook Air, on an
actual desk.

The Surface Book easily solves that problem, but I've seen reports that the
battery life is only about ~3 hours with the screen detached as a tablet.
That's low enough to make me question the purchase. I've had to wait at an
airport for over 3 hours before, and that means that my tablet would have went
from 100% to 0% battery before even getting on the plane. Granted, the
keyboard base has more batteries built into it, so the device would not be
unusable in this scenario, but it would not be usable in its ideal form
factor.

(This article, for what it's worth, claims 4 hours for the tablet and 8 hours
for the bottom -- slightly more generous numbers.)

Edit/update: I forgot when writing this that the Surface Book's screen can be
attached to the base backwards with the base folded back, thus getting the
full ~12 hour battery life (plus the discrete GPU) at the cost of some extra
bulk. Depending on just how bulky it is, that just might solve the problem for
me.

~~~
yread
Check out the pictures in the article. Especially this one

[http://rack.2.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDE1LzEwLzA3L2U5L01pY3Jvc...](http://rack.2.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDE1LzEwLzA3L2U5L01pY3Jvc29mdF9NLmVlNTBlLmpwZwpwCXRodW1iCTEyMDB4OTYwMD4/892f624c/d32/Microsoft_Meeting-3.jpg)

it has 3 people using Surface on their (gasp) lap!

~~~
dogma1138
I have the SP2 and it's almost impossible to use on your lap as a laptop it
doesn't stay put.

The keyboard is not hard enough to type on comfortably and there aren't enough
points of contact to prevent the damn thing from constantly sliding and
tipping over.

The SP3 might be a bit better, the keyboard is supposed to be considerably
better but as far as the SP2 goes the best way i found to actually use it on
your lap is to lay it pretty much flat, using the kick stand never worked for
me.

~~~
Armisael16
The SP3's continuous kickstand makes it a lot easier to use it in your lap. I
upgraded from an SP1 to an SP3 (it hit a tile floor corner first), and while I
know exactly what you're talking about, I don't think it's an issue anymore.

~~~
dogma1138
Could be, the biggest issue I have isn't with the angle of the kickstand
(although if you don't sit a manner that allows you to have your thighs
perfectly horizontal the SP2's angles are a huge limitations as there isn't an
angle in which it won't want to tip over forward or backwards).

My biggest issue with the kickstand and I can't believe I'm using that word is
the thigh gap... since there isn't a base and the keyboard isn't stiff enough
to provide one the moment you move your your legs a bit either further apart
or up / down the kickstand tilts and the surface slides down.

For me using the surface as a _lap_ top pretty much means for me that i have
to remain still and close my legs so much that I feel like I'm crushing my
private parts, It could be just me but i got quite long legs and and if I keep
the Surface closer to me i just can't type on it or see the screen without
hunching over or breaking my neck.

------
ZanyProgrammer
I really wish MSFT would hurry up and make a plain old one piece ultrabook. I
really don't want a device with an innovative hinge and removable screen. An
ultrabook with this level of design quality, and vanilla Windows you can buy
at the MSFT store, would be an instant winner in my book.

~~~
criddell
I'd like that too. My current device is a Thinkpad Yoga that I love, but I've
lost a lot of trust in Lenovo and don't think I would buy from them again.
There really isn't anything out there other than a Macbook (running Windows in
a VM or reformatted) that I can see myself getting.

I also wish they would release a smaller version of Windows for business use.
I want my operating system to simply support the software I run. Cortana, live
tiles, and most personalization functions decrease the value of Windows 10 for
me. I'd get rid of all the Bing apps (Weather, Finance, Sports, News, Music,
etc...) too. If you don't use them, it's just bloatware and I don't understand
why they make it difficult to uninstall those applications.

~~~
scholia
Try checking how much space the Bing apps take up, preferably before you've
used any of them....

Windows 10 is actually quite economical in the space it uses. Remember, the
full OS runs on 32-bit tablets with only 1GB of RAM and 32GB of storage.

The MacBook means giving up the touch-screen, tablet and high-end pen
functionality that you would get with a Surface Pro.

Also, it seems a little inconsistent to worry about the space taken up by Bing
apps while contemplating a solution that requires two whole operating systems
and a VM ;-)

~~~
criddell
> Try checking how much space the Bing apps take up

Space is one concern. The other is that these things tend to be taking up
cycles in the background. So there is some power consumption and bandwidth
use. Plus, none of them are bug-free and so there are security concerns as
well (not to mention the privacy issues).

> giving up the touch-screen, tablet and high-end pen functionality that you
> would get with a Surface Pro

If those functions were useful to me, I would be happy with a Surface Pro or
Book. I have a Thinkpad Yoga that can do all that stuff and I've never
actually used any of it other than to try it.

> it seems a little inconsistent to worry about the space taken up by Bing
> apps while contemplating a solution that requires two whole operating
> systems

The difference is that I have no interest in running any of those applications
whereas if I had Mac OS available, there are Mac applications I would run (I'm
a big fan of the Omni Group's software). No matter what machine I have, I'll
be running Linux in a VM anyway, so that VM overhead is acceptable.

~~~
scholia
> I have a Thinkpad Yoga that can do all that stuff and > I've never actually
> used any of it other than to try it.

That surprises me, since I've just had to admit to myself that the ability to
manipulate the screen directly is extremely useful.

Thinking like you, I recently bought a new laptop without a touch screen (it
was cheaper). A couple of weeks later, I returned it and paid the extra for
one with a touch screen.

Re Bing apps, they take up almost no space, use almost no resources, and are
completely sandboxed. You might want to look into Windows Runtime, including
[https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-
us/library/windows/apps/hh4649...](https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-
us/library/windows/apps/hh464925.aspx)

~~~
criddell
I work mostly with text so the most important thing to me is having a good
keyboard. I don't like touchscreen laptops because I don't like fingerprints
on the screen.

> I recently bought a new laptop

What laptop do you use and how do you like it?

As for the Bing apps, I get it that for what they do, they are efficient. But
for me they provide no value and so the fact that they use some space, CPU,
bandwidth, have bugs, and have privacy issues means that I would like to be
able to uninstall them and not think about them. I don't understand why they
aren't at least easily uninstalled. It makes me wonder if the data they send
back to Microsoft is valuable even when they aren't actively used.

~~~
Amezarak
It looks to me like all you have to do to uninstall them is go to System ->
Apps and Features, select the app, and click uninstall.

Am I missing something? I tried it on a few and it seems to work fine.

~~~
criddell
When I tried to do that, a bunch of them had no uninstall option and I had to
do a PowerShell command to get rid of them.

I followed the instructions on this page:
[http://www.howtogeek.com/224798/how-to-uninstall-
windows-10s...](http://www.howtogeek.com/224798/how-to-uninstall-
windows-10s-built-in-apps-and-how-to-reinstall-them/)

Uninstalling Cortana is even trickier so I haven't done anything with it yet,
but it's probably the feature I would most like to get rid of.

~~~
scholia
Microsoft said: "You can turn off Input Personalization at any time. This will
stop the data collection for this feature and will delete associated data
stored on your device, such as your local user dictionary and your input
history. As Cortana uses this data to help understand your input, turning off
Input Personalization will also disable Cortana on your device. At
[https://www.bing.com/account/personalization](https://www.bing.com/account/personalization),
you can also clear data sent to Microsoft, such as your contacts and calendar
data, user dictionary, as well as search and browsing history if your device
also had Cortana enabled."

Cortana is just a cute name for part of the indexed search feature, which is
controlled by Group Policies:

[https://technet.microsoft.com/en-
us/library/mt577208%28v=vs....](https://technet.microsoft.com/en-
us/library/mt577208%28v=vs.85%29.aspx#BKMK_Cortana)

Cortana is not turned on by default, and if she's not been turned on, there is
no real benefit to removing "her".

However, for the record, I think Cortana is great....

Since Windows 10 is "Windows as a service", patched and maintained remotely,
I'd expect random screwing around to be repaired remotely. However, it would
be interesting to know if this will affect Windows' stability or performance.
However, in general, it's probably a bad idea to mess around with the workings
of things you don't understand.

This is one of the reasons I don't mess around with Android, or try to remove
all the Google apps I don't want, or remove Google Now ;-)

~~~
criddell
Thank you for all the information.

I don't have a Microsoft account, so the account personalization link doesn't
work. Unfortunately, my machine is still constantly contacting Microsoft. It's
a problem because I'm often tethering my computer to my phone and I have
pretty limited bandwidth caps.

~~~
scholia
Ah. Have you set Windows 10 to not download from a metered account?

The main point of Windows 10 is that it's a mobile operating system with cloud
integration. (Remember, the same OS runs on smartphones. Cortana, apps, and
Live Tiles came from Windows Phone.)

The Microsoft account gives you access to 15GB of free space on OneDrive, and
the online Office apps (including OneNote and some new ones). The idea is to
use the same apps on iOS and Android smartphones and tablets so you get the
benefits of a cross-platform ecosystem.

It's also maintained and updated on a continuous basis -- remember it's
"Windows as a Service". If you read all of this page (1), it will give you a
good idea of the telemetry involved.

If you had Windows 10 Pro laptop joined to a company domain you would get a
lot of control, but if you're operating as a consumer/amateur then you're
fighting the whole design of the system, and that's probably a losing battle.
It's like a vegan complaining about a steak-house menu.

Try running ShutUp10 from [http://www.oo-
software.com/en/shutup10](http://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10)

Have you thought of switching to Linux Mint? ;-)

(1) [https://technet.microsoft.com/en-
us/library/mt577208%28v=vs....](https://technet.microsoft.com/en-
us/library/mt577208%28v=vs.85%29.aspx)

~~~
voltagex_
That will work if you're tethering via WiFi, but Windows won't let you set an
"Ethernet" (RNDIS) connection as metered, presumably because no Microsoft
engineer has encountered such thing as a bandwidth cap.

~~~
scholia
Ah, many thanks for the info!

------
TheMagicHorsey
I think the Surface tablets are superior hardware compared to the new iPad
Pro, HOWEVER, since I'm mainly going to use the iPad Pro for art, I'm afraid
the apps on iOS are actually going to be cheaper and better.

I've been surprised by the quality, low price, and useability of of iOS and
OSX creative apps. Hype, Pixelmator, Sketch, and Over. Are really good tools,
and they are cheap.

The Adobe Creative Suite (Photoshop, Illustrator, etc.) are still the best
tools from a feature perspective, but they are expensive, and they are now on
a subscription plan. I don't make art for a living ... I do it for fun ... so
I can't justify spending that much money every month, for something I might or
might not use.

I have rented Creative Suite to use for a month on occasion (to edit a Wedding
video and to design some invitations), but day to day, I'm usually messing
around in Pixelmator these days.

The only thing I miss from Adobe is Lightroom. There's nothing like Lightroom.
I'm stuck using the last non-subscription version of Lightroom, and will
probably never upgrade. Pretty sad about that.

I wish there were products like Pixelmator and Sketch for PC.

~~~
exhilaration
_The only thing I miss from Adobe is Lightroom. There 's nothing like
Lightroom. I'm stuck using the last non-subscription version of Lightroom, and
will probably never upgrade. Pretty sad about that._

Lightroom is actually available for purchase separately, I think it might be
the only Creative Suite product that's still available that way. Just search
Amazon for Lightroom 6 or buy directly from Adobe.com.

~~~
UnoriginalGuy
Indeed, since Apr 21, 2015.

I will say I like Lightroom but the way Adobe force updates annoys me. Instead
of a new Lightroom offering new features and benefits, you HAVE To upgrade
Lightroom for new Camera Raw versions (meaning if a camera is newer than the
next version of Lightroom, it won't be supported on the old version).

For example, I own Lightroom 4 (2012), it does everything I need but I cannot
use it with my camera purchased in 2014 because Camera Raw doesn't support it
(even though the actual format of the RAW files is identical, just the
camera's ID metadata has changed).

PS - Disclaimer: I actually have Creative Cloud now. Got it after my Lightroom
4 stopped working. It is the "At Home" deal via work ($10 per year for me for
home, because my work already pays for an enterprise license).

------
pcunite
> I realized just how far from irrelevant Microsoft has become

When I stay away from the media, I tend to keep this realization. I don't
think people realize how nimble Microsoft can be. They've done many firsts in
their labs. Microsoft never left the ring.

------
strictnein
Maybe I missed it before, but this is the first article that I've read that
specifies the battery split between the base and the screen:

> "The top gets four hours of battery life, and the bottom gets eight."

~~~
masklinn
I've seen previous mentions of it (probably on /r/microsoft or somesuch),
though they stated 3h in "tablet mode" (screen only, not design mode with the
screen reverted on the base)

edit:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/3npv7p/microsoft_sur...](https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/3npv7p/microsoft_surface_book_claimed_to_be_twice_as/)?
has multiple mentions of the 3h "screen only" version
([e.g.]([https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/3npv7p/microsoft_sur...](https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/3npv7p/microsoft_surface_book_claimed_to_be_twice_as/cvqgc5u\))),
I'm guessing it was made explicit during the unveiling or just after.

------
rbanffy
I'd love to know how much pressure can the hinge withstand before deforming.
Since the lid does not rest flat on the base, all forces are applied on
relatively small regions and it seems like it'd be easy to either deform it or
just crack the tablet side.

------
peletiah
There's a lot of fluff in this article, but little technical details. I'd be
curious how the hinge works, and although a whole section of the article is
dedicated to it, I explains nothing.

> It’s also, claims Panay, a first. “It’s never been done before. This product
> is the first ever where the GPU is in the base and then a second GPU is in
> the top.” The result is a “balance” between hardware and software.

Yeah. Right.

~~~
MBCook
That line struck me too.

Apple has had GPU switching for quite a while (my 2010 MacBook Pro has it, and
I don't think it was the first). So clearly MS didn't invent that.

I wonder if what he's talking about is the fact that it's a mainstream
production system where the dedicated GPU is actually removable. Not a "Plug
this into your Thunderbolt port" thing or a "Turn it off and stick this module
in", but a "just pull it apart and the GPU is no longer there".

The balance part was questionable writing.

~~~
scholia
GPU switching is old, but not with the GPU in a separate location that can be
physically detached....

~~~
ygra
I remember ThinkPad docking stations that could have a discrete GPU in the
dock.

~~~
scholia
Well remembered! But in that case, the external graphics card was used to
drive a separate external monitor, not the ThinkPad's LCD.

------
stinos
So if mechanically unlocking the screen has a dedicated key and software
sound, does this mean you cannot get the screen off the keyboard if the OS
isn't running? That would be unfortunate, for what seems like an otherwise
great product.

~~~
tonylemesmer
To energise the nitinol requires battery power at least. I would hope that it
would be able to do that without being powered up. But yes, that detail is
missing.

~~~
pablovidal85
So, why wasn't a mechanical hook used instead? It seems to me they
overengineered that part a bit.

~~~
yannyu
Well, given that the Surfacebook utilizes computing power in the attached
keyboard, maybe disconnecting it without properly checking processes could
cause bad things to happen?

~~~
bsimpson
At least when it's on, it needs time to switch from the processors in the
keyboard to those in the tablet.

------
MaysonL
So, given that Tim Cook has welcomed Microsoft onto the stage at the last
keynote, and Satya Nadella has been fairly aggressive pushing Microsoft
software products onto Apple gear, when will the Surface Book, OS X edition,
appear? Or will we have to wait for bastardized hackintosh versions?

------
4rt
the bits about the importance of the "hinge being able to connect two devices
going forwards" in the middle of the article really made me remember the MS
"courier" prototype.

i really suspect they'll launch a "second touchscreen" peripheral that
replaces the keyboard section of the surfacebook.

------
acd
Think Microsoft is back on the right track with Satya Nadella.

Will Surface Book run Linux well?

~~~
MichaelGG
I've taken to simply running VMware in kiosk mode. Full-screen Linux desktop
(cause life without xmonad...), no Windows in sight except via the "boss key"
sequence. Then I get the benefits of using Linux, with the battery life,
sleep/resume, drivers, etc. of using Windows.

I'd love to not use Windows as a host, but life's too short for dealing with
Linux on laptops. Despite how ThinkPads are great for it and stuff "mostly
just works".

~~~
aeroevan
Linux on laptops hasn't been an issue for a while...

The surface pro 3 is fairly well supported, and I've been using linux on
MacBook Pros for years.

------
ececconi
The fact that the surface pro 4 has a much more robust battery life, without
the keyboard attached, makes it my product of choice if I'm going to buy one
of these things. Thing is, I don't need all the extra horsepower from this
machine. Awesome design.

------
barkingcat
Wow this reads like a commercial for the surface book. It's so superlative in
all its adjectives.

~~~
teachrdan
I think this is a promotion / "native content" paid for by Microsoft. The
article is unreadable for its fawning over the new Surface laptop. And I even
think it looks decent as a piece of hardware!

------
diebir
I suspect that regardless of how good a device MS comes up with, they can't
win with the consumers, since Windows is strongly associated with the dreadful
office computers and the IT-tyranny of the workplace. Who wants to use Windows
at home after using it in the office all day?

Besides, every single Windows computer I have had in family after a 6 months
of use turned into slow as crawl horrible insufferable piece of junk. A full
minute to switch users on a pretty powerful machine! The Macs, on the other
hand, seem to be holding pretty well. Viruses, crappy drivers, bad software,
the entire Windows ecosystem just does not work all that well, and it is very
apparent to people using it at home.

I suspect the same group of people that bought Lumina phones and Zunes will
buy this, a couple of idiotic suits at work will show up with it, and a couple
of years later this will wither and die like all other things Microsoft. MS is
yesterday and there's nothing they can do about it.

~~~
agentgt
_I suspect that regardless of how good a device MS comes up with, they can 't
win with the consumers, since Windows is strongly associated with the dreadful
office computers and the IT-tyranny of the workplace. Who wants to use Windows
at home after using it in the office all day?_

I'm sure lots of people think of the office when they boot up their Xbox One.
Also most offices I have seen don't even run the consumer version of Windows
(Windows 8 tile mode).

I think many techies especially techies like myself that live in say Boston,
New York, San Francisco are in a microcosm of Apple is everywhere. Other than
mobile phones MS is actually pretty damn ubiquitous and is not necessarily
going to wither and die.... speaking of which do know how many times Apple has
come up with things that have withered and died? Or any big company for that
matter? Also wasn't Apple yesterday at one point but then rebooted? Try to
keep an open mind.

