
The K-Cup Coffee Pod Problem - jsc123
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/print/2015/03/the-abominable-k-cup-coffee-pod-environment-problem/386501/?single_page=true
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cowsandmilk
"It’s digital rights management, the coffee equivalent of Steve Jobs’ attempt
to fill iPods only with music sold through iTunes."

What?? Not really. Keurig machines refuse to use anything other than a Keurig-
brand K-Cup. The iPod always played non-DRMed music. It just wouldn't play
music with DRM from other stores.

Any store willing to sell music without DRM is/was perfectly compatible with
the iPod.

~~~
pmelendez
>What?? Not really. Keurig machines refuse to use anything other than a
Keurig-brand K-Cup.

That's not true.. there are several no Keurig-brand K-cups that are compatible
with Keurig machines.

~~~
uptown
The new Keurig machines enforce a weak form of K-cups DRM.

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dbot
I didn't drink coffee until a few years ago. Starting off with K-Cups, I now
alternate between AeroPress and french press. Using freshly ground beans,
there's really no comparison in the taste. People say K-Cups are easier, but
it's more like a different drink altogether.

~~~
joshuapants
I'm a big fan of the aeropress. Tastes amazing. I think K-Cups taste like
Nescafe.

~~~
ethagnawl
The AeroPress does indeed produce fantastic espresso. If only the process
didn't involve near-boiling water and plastic ...

~~~
semi-extrinsic
What do you mean? The materials it is built from are FDA approved for food
preparation up to 100 C.

And what it produces is very far from espresso. Unless you call your americano
an espresso.

~~~
karlshea
If you brew upside down and don't use a lot of water, you do end up with
something pretty close to espresso (including crema).

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jon-wood
What do you mean by brewing upside down? I stopped using my Aeropress and went
back to a proper machine because I missed the crema, so I'd love to know how
you got one.

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poloniculmov
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0t7p9L02nA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0t7p9L02nA)
That's what he's talking about, but I don't know how he gets the crema because
my Aeropress cannot.

~~~
karlshea
I usually only get it with really fresh beans. I normally use it for coffee
though instead of espresso so if the crema is what you really enjoy an
Aeropress is probably not for you.

~~~
semi-extrinsic
I also brew upside down, and I do get foam. But this is the same type of foam
that you get with a french press. I think the difference is that this foam is
caused by heat, while a good crema is caused by the pressure. It certainly
tastes and looks different.

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asadotzler
Landfills, consumer recycling, composting, etc. are a dangerous distraction.

We have hundreds to thousands of years to solve those problems before they are
any serious threat to our way of life _and_ that of most other living things
on this planet.

We have no time left to solve global warming which is an immediate and
critical threat to human civilization and potentially most life on Earth.

Given the public's astonishing lack of attention to the environment, and the
abject failure of our global leadership to care for us on on that front, we
cannot afford to waste any of the limited attention on non-critical problems
like landfills.

~~~
datenwolf
The problems of waste management and global warming are closely interrelated
though.

First and foremost the more stuff goes into landfills, the more raw materials
have to be mined and processed to replace it, which consumes a lot of energy
and by that increases the greenhouse gases footprint. The main point of
recycling is to avoid the greenhouse gases emissions that are associated with
producing products from raw materials.

A secondary problem with landfills is, especially if large amounts of
compostable material go into them, that the biological degradation there
happens mostly anaerobic, which in turn means it produces lots and lots of
methane, which is a far more potent greenhouse gas.

In a properly setup composting facility, be it small scale in your backyard,
or industrial large scale the degradation happens aerobic, so that no methane
is produced.

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armc
Nespresso coffee pods _are_ recyclable. Our Magnapower eddy sorter has
separated aluminum from plastic after crushing the pods. Video here:
[https://vimeo.com/118085045](https://vimeo.com/118085045)

I don't think K-Kups would present much a problem either, but I haven't had
the chance to try shredding and sorting them yet.

~~~
bri3d
This is actually really cool!

Do many/most/any municipal recycling facilities have ECS sorters? Should I
tell people to throw K-cups in the recycling? I'm assuming the coffee grounds
need to be removed first?

~~~
rrggrr
Most have them. I dont see the harm in putting them in the recycling bin
though thats not to say they wont end up in the landfill fraction for various
reasons.

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deitcher
The bigger issue with the DRM is that Keurig is fighting their own customers.
Great for competitors, not for Keurig. "never Fight Your Own Customers"
[http://blog.atomicinc.com/2014/12/15/never-fight-your-
custom...](http://blog.atomicinc.com/2014/12/15/never-fight-your-
customers-1894/)

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w1ntermute
San Francisco Bay Coffee sells biodegradable K-cups (they call them OneCups).
They're also cheaper than the official K-cups. The only catch is that they
don't work on the new Keurig 2.0 DRMed brewers.

~~~
xemoka
Except it looks like OneCups are now including the "Freedom Clip" with each
box: [https://www.gourmet-coffee.com/Keurig-DRM-Freedom-
Clip.html](https://www.gourmet-coffee.com/Keurig-DRM-Freedom-Clip.html)

~~~
brandon272
Couldn't Keurig sue them for selling that?

~~~
jmgrosen
IANAL, but I would think the Sega v. Accolade case [0] would make this legal
(unless the DMCA applies, but I don't think it would here, due to the more
physical nature of the product).

[0]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_Enterprises_Ltd._v._Accol...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_Enterprises_Ltd._v._Accolade,_Inc).

~~~
paulannesley
HN breaks that link — the trailing period is part of the URL. The path is
“/wiki/Sega_Enterprises_Ltd._v._Accolade,_Inc.”

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bane
My work burns through K-Cups, but we also have a 100% no-landfill corporate
policy. Everything gets recycled, or if it's not recyclable, is processed by a
waste processing company and turned into feed for local incinerators.

Where possible, even "plastic" items like forks and spoons in the cafeteria
are made out of recyclable materials.

But the K-Cups won't die. They're everywhere. They must make up a significant
fraction of our incinerated trash every week.

~~~
jsprogrammer
So, instead of burying the carbon (or just not incentivizing its production),
your company burns the plastic into the atmosphere?

~~~
Dylan16807
Is the little bit of carbon in the plastic anywhere close to the biggest issue
here? Lookup up the carbon offset price gives me under $20 per _ton_.

~~~
jsprogrammer
What is the bigger issue? I did imply that not purchasing the carbon (and
therefore, not incentivizing its extraction) would be better than burning it
(and whatever other pollutants are created by the combustion of K-cups, or
equivalent) into the atmosphere.

My lungs don't really care about your 'carbon offset price' denominated in US
dollars.

~~~
Dylan16807
Your lungs don't care about carbon either. When I hear about things getting
incinerated I worry about all the potential toxic chemicals, and what is done
with the residue. Producing carbon dioxide and water is the _ideal_ outcome.

I bring up the carbon price because they could pay next to nothing and leave
the atmosphere with _less_ carbon in it. That's not the hard part. The hard
part is making sure we're not spilling ugly chemicals all over the
environment, whether that's though burial or burning.

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Spooky23
This is the most overwrought controversy ever.

How many people go to Starbucks, the gas station, McDonald's or any other
store and buy a cup of any beverage? How many wax cups get recycled? How many
compressed polystyrene cups for soda?

If you feel particularly guilty, you can trivially tear off the foil top,
empty the coffee and filter into your compost, and recycle the cup. Total
waste is a few grams of foil.

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driverdan
I don't understand why people still use K-Cups at home. It literally takes two
minutes to make a great cup of coffee with an Aeropress, one that's cheaper,
tastes better, and produces far less waste.

~~~
Kalium
It gets you a decent cup of coffee on-demand with no cleanup and obviates
concerns about how freshly roasted or freshly ground your beans are. You can
zombie through using a capsule.

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keeperofdakeys
> But he was drinking 30 to 40 cups a day. He had to drink that much because,
> intent on starting his own business

I wonder if this means, drinking the cup fully, or only sampling a bit of the
coffee from each cup. I don't think someone could survive drinking 30-40 cups
of coffee a day, every day.

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keslag
I find EZ-Cup the best solution, I use a little paper filter that fits in a
reusable cup, and I get to use fresh ground coffee. Cost per cup is around a
dime or so, and the cleanup is literally just pop the filter into the compost
bucket. It may not be as good as an AeroPress, though I can't tell the
difference. I find the fresh beans, quality coffee, and a good grinder are far
more noticeable to me than press vs. drip.

~~~
zyx321
At that point, how s it different from a Senseo?

As a matter of fact, why would you want a Keurig over a Senseo if all you're
ever going to make is plain coffee?

~~~
keslag
Well, Canada doesn't have Senseo, but why would I use a Senseo over my Keurig.
I really like the reusable cup design of the EZCup, and there isn't any
cleanup. I'm guessing the Senseo by looks of the cups are similar to the
Tassimo design we have here, but the pucks aren't nearly as clean and neat. I
brought one in to the office, and you don't need to be near a sink, so it's
really handy. Converted a Starbucks, Tim Hortons, and a French Press user, and
now they're all using it. The AeroPress user, she hasn't converted, though she
hasn't even tried it.

~~~
zyx321
No, Senseo consumables are biodegradable. There's no cup at all, just coffee
grounds wrapped in a paper filter. There's also reusable filters equivalent to
EZ-cup.

I guess it does drip a little if you're not careful, which was less of an
issue with the cup machines I tried.

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jaachan
Anyone know how Keurig stands up to Senseo[1]? Those have pads that were
biodegradable from the beginning. Also pads available from third parties,
which is already validated by courts.

[1] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senseo](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senseo)

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nemesisrobot
I recently switched over to making cold brew coffee at home. It's incredibly
easy to make a week's worth at time, tastes great, and just as convenient as
instant coffee.

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Dylan16807
Category 7 plastic means 'other', please stop referring to it as if the mix
used in K-cups is the only kind.

