
Mexican Drug Gangs Kidnap Computer Hackers and Programmers - voodoochilo
http://resources.infosecinstitute.com/mexican-cartels-infosec/
======
dannyobrien
There's nothing in this article to confirm that headline, apart from the
sentence "Recent claims that computer programmers are being forcibly recruited
by Mexican drug gangs, if true, suggest that these groups are acquiring the
ability to reap the potential profits of cyber-crime", which has no citation.

I'd be very interested to hear of corroborated incidences of such kidnapping
or recruitment occurring. I was in Sinaloa, Mexico this month actively looking
for such evidence as part of my work. There's some indication that the cartel
have reasonable IT infrastructure (which isn't surprising, given their size),
and some growing involvement in physical piracy (counterfeit items in markets
have to be marked with a cartel symbol, which is purchasable). But I've yet to
see strong evidence that they are involved in "cybercrime" in any organized
fashion.

They certainly take discussion forum flamewars pretty seriously though:
[http://www.cpj.org/internet/2012/03/online-news-sites-as-
bat...](http://www.cpj.org/internet/2012/03/online-news-sites-as-battleground-
for-mexican-drug.php)

~~~
sebastianavina
From what I understand, drug cartels need software for running their
bussiness, and because they can't take a call to SAP and have a representative
build a custom solution, they just kidnap programmers, extortion them and make
them build the software they need for bookeping and all the stuff made by
computers on this days.

~~~
adambyrtek
This doesn't seem very convincing. Simply paying programmers lots of money
would be a simpler and more effective solution. They could certainly afford
that, and bookkeeping is too critical to their business to risk. Would you
suggest that they kidnap lawyers and doctors as well?

~~~
sebastianavina
Well, they don't kidnap them... They just hire them, and when they want to
quit or resign the job, they just can't.

------
hef19898
Sounds too much like Password: Swordfish 2.0 to me. Unfortunately I can't
access the article right now. For me, one thin gis sure, the cartels aren't
stupid. At least the leaders and the heads, that is. Don't judge the
organization by the goons welding guns and that get killed. They are running a
multi-billion dollar business, and I'm pretty sure that they know that forced
labour only gets you so far in anything more important than packaging (even
thats not sure, given the budget they have and mexican salaries). So I think
they are rather hiring the best IT-guys they can get along with the best
intel-guys they can get. These hackers may not be of the "don't be evil"-type,
what after the cartels aren't in that kind of business neither.

~~~
hef19898
I'm quite new to HN, so I have a question. Was anything wrong on my comment
that I'm the only one to get down voted on this topic? I'm not going to bitch
around due to that, don't get me wrong, I only want to understand why, tht's
all. :-)

~~~
dagw
Random downvotes are a fact of life on HN, if for no other reason than the
close proximity of the vote buttons (I know I've accidentally down-voted more
than a couple of stories over the years). These things tend to correct
themselves if you're patient and wait a few hours.

~~~
hef19898
Ah, that could be a reason. Again, no offense taken, I just wondered. There is
no other thing like randomness to add some salt to life!

------
malandrew
Were I an activist involved with this, I think that providing a "dead man's
switch as a service" could be quite useful. Were I to engage in risky
journalism, while living in close proximity to these gang wars, I'd want a way
to spill additional information to the media were I to go missing.

~~~
there
<http://www.deadmansswitch.net/>

------
brianbreslin
I was told by some Mexicans that the cartel is already employing (as in paying
salaries to) numerous hackers and IT professionals. They have very high level
of banking access and technology that rivals government spy agencies.
Unlimited funds will do that for you though.

~~~
coopdog
Kidnap is funny though, they could kidnap someone and say comply with
everything we tell you. If either you or your family leave our control (they
could be in separate places) or signal for help we will kill you both. The
only escape would be to perfectly synchronize it.

Would work especially well if two or more kidnapped hackers were forced to
monitor each other, adding a prisoner's dilemma to the mix. If one failed to
catch the other's escape he/she and their family would be killed.

So it isn't impossible to enslave security professionals.

~~~
unimpressive
>Would work especially well if two or more kidnapped hackers were forced to
monitor each other, adding a prisoner's dilemma to the mix. If one failed to
catch the other's escape he/she and their family would be killed.

And you just described what would be an _amazing_ cyberpunk novel.

Two security professionals both try to escape and prevent the other from
escaping at the same time. If done right it could quickly become the best kind
of thriller; the one where you're actually speculating as to what happens
next.

------
alecdibble
The section on the feud between Anonymous and Los Zetas was fascinating. It's
very interesting that Anonymous has that kind of leverage against such
seemingly powerful people.

~~~
FreakLegion
No part of that story has _ever_ been corroborated. Barrett Brown isn't
exactly a trustworthy source.

------
kingpharoah
HN readers around the world should be able to do something to take heat off
the Mexican people.

------
ernirulez
This is a very good opportunity for governments to make public opinion even
worse against hackers and therefore make new laws to control us even more.
That will be very easy for them: Hackers -> Help drug gangs -> Hackers =
Criminals

------
user2459
Events like this are the main reason why The War on Drugs™ is so dangerous for
everybody. It's not the drugs or gangs killing gangs. It's the gangsters that
live through it sitting on piles of money who now have the resources to expand
into crimes that take more than a gun, friends with guns, and some luck.
Because of the prohibition they can now hire hackers to commit crimes for them
in any place in the world. It's going to get harder to implicate them in
crimes, and yet easier for them to make money off them.

Possibly the worst part is that this happened to us(and is still affecting us)
in almost exact detail during the prohibition of the 20s and yet we continue
to shrug our shoulders and keep giving them more money.

~~~
gregbair
Well, first of all, this article is complete BS with no corroboration or even
references.

Secondly, even if there weren't a war on drugs, the gangsters would find
something else to peddle, like people. Gangsters existed before prohibition
and existed after, they just moved into different rackets.

~~~
oinksoft
Oh, come on. Joe Blow wants to buy weed, blow, crank, and dope because his
life sucks, he's bored, or he just likes the stuff. Very few people like that
are in the market for a human being. You really can't compare the
profitability of an easily produced and smuggled commodity with something like
the trafficking of persons.

~~~
gregbair
I'm not, I was simply saying that if all those things were legal, criminals
(the cartels, not the users) would find something else illegal to peddle.
These people look for an easy buck, and right now, that happens to be in
illicit drugs. Take that profit away, and they'll just find something else.

~~~
mjallday
But some easy bucks are easier and less damaging than others. No doubt if
drugs are legalized they will move on to something else but the total market
they can address will be smaller.

~~~
DanBC
People trafficking is the second largest organised criminal activity. It's low
risk with bigger profit margins than drugs. Data is hard to get, partly
because there's little international agreement about what should be measured
as well as the difficulty of finding the victims.

Here's a UN document which is reasonably cautious.

(<http://www.ungift.org/docs/ungift/pdf/knowledge/ebook.pdf>)

Global profits are > $30billion USD.

> _the total market they can address will be smaller._

Bigger profits.

------
shareme
What is sad is that US citizens do not understand that this un-civil war has
been going on for the past 30 years and we as US citizens have done nothing
that has a statistical impact of reversing the damage.

Instead we invade Iraq and Afghanistan based on the political connections of a
former Haliburton employee and stockholder.

And if we do not wake up soon.. WWII will be on our doorstep.

~~~
armandososa
I've thought about it too. You guys catch Saddam and Osama, why can't you
launch some drones and put a missile trough capo's asses?

I guess our lives and peace are not worth the intervention.

~~~
dagw
Can you imagine the magnitude of the political shit storm on both sides of the
border the first time a US drone operating in Mexican airspace with the
blessing of the Mexican government blows up a few Mexican kids?

~~~
yummyfajitas
And unlike Afghanistan or Iraq, Mexico actually matters to the US. They are
our #3 trading partner (Canada and China are #1 and #2), even ignoring trade
in labor (and trade in drugs).

Messing that up would be foolish.

------
trotsky
bullshit

