
Square Cash - rjsamson
https://square.com/cash
======
meritt
Seems to work amazingly although I'm a bit concerned about the security. A
friend sent me $1. I get an email from square, link to website where I entered
my debit #, expiry and postal. It deposited directly to my debit card (I didnt
even know you could do that). The deposit already arrived!

"Checking Card Adjustment POS Pin (Credit) $1.00"

So I sent him $1 back (to: my friend, cc: cash@square.com, subject: $1). And
it instantly sent it to him. I didn't have to verify my details or anything.

I'd feel a lot more comfortable if there was a security blog explaining how
they are validating that I indeed sent the email and it wasn't simply spoofed.

Edit - I did this from Gmail which I presume authenticates all of the emails
via dkim? I'm guessing this won't work as automatic for other providers?

Edit2 - Just attempted with another friend and had to verify manually. The
automatic-authorization appears to only apply when it's between two previously
validated parties.

~~~
downandout
I just found a major limitation with this thing. It blocks payment from any
prepaid Visa/Mastercard - even reloadable cards attached to virtual checking
accounts that support ACH (payroll cards, Netspend, etc). That eliminates
payments from a huge section of the population.

[http://prntscr.com/1xm5le](http://prntscr.com/1xm5le)

Another issue: if you make a mistake on the initial email, and want to send a
different amount, you're out of luck. When you send a corrected email from the
same address and go to the payment page, it adds any previously unfinished
transactions from your email to the amount being sent, with no way to cancel
the mistaken one. So just never make a mistake, and never do a test
transaction you don't intend to finish, or you'll be required to finish and
pay for all of it when you finally do have the correct amount and want to send
a transaction (which you can only send with a small subset of the debit cards
in existence).

These payment companies are always introducing interesting new things and then
they hobble them with basic oversights and fundamentally flawed policies. In
the last hour I've gone from excitement to disappointment with this service.
It had promise based on the description, but this particular service (probably
not Square itself) will fail very quickly.

~~~
anoncowherd
>> I just found a major limitation with this thing. It blocks payment from any
prepaid Visa/Mastercard - even reloadable cards attached to virtual checking
accounts that support ACH (payroll cards, Netspend, etc). That eliminates
payments from a huge section of the population.

.. Aaand it's not an accident either.

~~~
3825
Is that to meet the money laundering/auditing requirements?

------
philfreo
This is my favorite type of product. Here's why:

\- Take an existing known medium (in this case email) and makes it way more
useful.

\- They didn't try to build a bunch of new UI for connecting your Facebook so
you can find and invite and pay your friends, paying out to your card, etc.

\- It magically hides the messiness of an enormously complex problem (fraud,
different types of debit cards & banks all over the world) behind a very
simple interface.

\- Unlike every other P2P payment system, I can actually sign up and receive
money (or convince my friend to) using _only what 's in my pocket_ (debit
card)... not hunting down ACH/wire details.

~~~
jser
Looks like an excellent target for phishing attacks!

~~~
downandout
That was my first impression. I could rip the site, post it to my own domain,
and start sending out emails saying "you've got cash, give me your credit card
number so we can credit it" in about 10 minutes. Great concept, and I plan to
use the service, but as it gains momentum and acceptance, it's going to be a
great attack vector for the Nigerians.

~~~
viiralvx
As a Nigerian, I'm offended. You know, other countries scam too!

~~~
skore
After getting to know a Nigerian[0], I must say this constant jab against
Nigerians is getting annoying to me as well.

[0]
[http://valanx.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&...](http://valanx.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=145:power-
to-the-developers-nigeria&catid=25:skore-blog&Itemid=99)

------
Tomdarkness
This is one area where the US seems to be behind compared to the UK. I am from
the UK and that service would look quite poor if it launched over here. We
have a system called faster payments service that offers instant (although in
some cases up to 2 hours) bank transfers for payments up to £100,000 (can
differ between banks). You can use this directly if you share bank account
numbers and sort codes but there are also wrappers around FPS like Barclays
PingIt that people can register with and use your mobile number instead. There
is no fee associated with these services.

~~~
ketralnis
The US equivalent is ACH, which has the major downside that using only the
bank ID (routing number) and account number you can effectively wipe out the
target's account. It's up to your bank (or whatever ACH proxy) to keep you
from doing that, not to the interchange, both legally and technically. ACH
also takes several days to work, and has a wide window for either bank to
declare the transfer fraudulent, so many banks stretch the time out longer to
account for that. Most stock brokers will credit your account long before the
ACH transaction completes (with some restrictions of course).

There are also wrappers around this here like Chase's Quickpay or Ally's
Popmoney but most require that both people use the same bank, or that you give
your ACH details to a bank that isn't your own.

Paper cheques just have the routing/account numbers along the bottom, and
AFAIK essentially work via ACH anyway, so they have all of the same downsides,
plus taking longer to complete.

Also, the window for fraud with ACH is so great that when you tell one bank
about another account's ACH details so that you can transfer money, they
"authenticate" this by making small, sub-$1 deposit amounts, and asking you
what the amounts were, to prove that you can see the target account. So this
"linking" process takes the entire ACH transaction time as well the first time
you do it. Some banks have taken to using a service called Yodlee which _asks
you for the target accounts ' username and password_. That's right, Wells
Fargo asks for your username and password on Scottrade to authenticate the
transfer because they don't trust the way ACH's liability lies. So this won't
work to send $8 to your buddy anyway.

Moving money without a service like paypal/venmo/square/google wallet is
really quite difficult, especially if you don't want to trust an organisation
with a history of taking people's money (Paypal) or if you don't want to pay a
transaction fee.

~~~
bloopletech
Are you serious? Why would _anyone_ design a system like this?

In Australia, the equivalent is EFT (Electronic Funds Transfer). You can
deposit money to anyone's account by telling the bank their BSB
(Bank/State/Branch number) and their account number; however this is not
sufficient information to withdraw money.

To withdraw money: 1\. at a physical bank branch: a. you put your credit/debit
card in a POS terminal and enter your pin/sign to authenticate. b. provide
yous credit/debit card and photo ID to the teller. 2\. at an ATM: credit/debit
card + pin number. 3\. online banking: either the credit/debit card number and
a password and often a pin as well, or a separate number and password.

All of these use an independent authentication source to the bank account
number.

Also the delays quotes here are insane: In Australia, there are essentially 2
ways to pay for something (excluding cash): 1\. EFT (Electronic Funds
Transfer) 2\. Credit card (possibly using a debit card) transaction.

On POS terminals, you can choose either; the differentiator being whether you
want to use a savings account (EFT) which goes via your bank, or a credit (or
savings account accessed via debit card) account, which goes via
MasterCard/Visa.

All forms of EFT take 1-2 business days between banks, pretty much all the
time; and they're universally free for the payer.

Credit/debit transactions seem to take 1 day universally.

We have a fairly stagnant banking system, with 4 major banks having basically
the entire consumer market (and the vast majority of the nonconsumer market as
well). Why, in a small, stagnant market like ours, do we fare much better than
the US system?

[edit: I forgot to mention, checks are dead here, they're now almost only used
for large transfers of money where: 1\. you don't want to use EFT; 2\. they're
over the daily online maximum for EFT transfers, and you can't be bothered to
go to a bank branch (although you can only get bank checks at a branch AFAIK);
3\. You want an immediate guarantee that the ammount was paid and the
date/time/payer/payee (as opposed to waiting 1 day for the payment to come
through).]

~~~
vacri
_and they 're universally free for the payer._

Not quite. Vendors can now legally add a surcharge to cover the cost for
payments from a credit card. Some vendors traditionally refused Amex when they
had to eat the charge, since Amex was something like a 4-5% cost to the vendor
as opposed to the 1-2% costs of the other cards.

 _Why, in a small, stagnant market like ours, do we fare much better than the
US system?_

We have strong banking regulations, apparently. I heard somewhere that during
the GFC, there were only ten banks of that kind globally that hung on to their
AAA credit rating, and all four of the Australian big banks were in that ten.

~~~
bloopletech
Credit card transactions do sometimes have fees attached; specifically I was
referring to EFT, which for person-to-person has no fees at all, and doesn't
attract fees to the payer at the POS (whereas credit cards can).

Yeah, the real question I was getting at was, given the Australian market is
even more insular and stagnant than the US, why do we have much better
systems?

What you're saying sounds plausible; a comparison of the US and Australian
regulations on deposit banks would be interesting.

~~~
wildfire
Actually EFT _does_ have fees. Typically between 10c - 25c / transaction.

They are minimal, but they are there.

Plus the fee for the terminal of course. Which varies significantly between
banks in AU.

~~~
bloopletech
Sure; I could have been clearer here.

Specifically, you can do an EFT transfer from a bank account to any other bank
account in Australia via online banking, and it's free (at least in all the
times I've used it).

In the case of ETFPOS terminals, EFT is always free for the payer (the
customer), and credit cards are usually free for the payer, but do sometimes
have a fee for the payer (certainly AMEX and Diners).

As I've now been corrected on, both types of transaction have a fee for the
payee (the merchant).

The fee for the terminal itself is definitely true - I was mainly thinking of
fees in terms of payers, i.e. the customer, not the merchant.

Though given there are alternative methods for credit/debit payments (i.e.
alternative terminal types, like the swipe thingy that plugs into iPhones)
it'll be interesting to see if people keep the combined EFTPOS + credit/debit
card terminals, or abandon the EFT side, as the number of non-debit
bank/keycards dwindles.

------
abalone
The most stunning part of this is the "free" part.

The Durbin amendment regulates the cost of debit transactions over the
Visa/Mastercard network. It's $0.22 + 0.05%.

Mossberg reports that Square is planning to monetize via "premium options"
like international transfers. But still, $0.22+ is a lot to lose every time
someone uses your mass-market service.

Good thing they raised $341M of VC money.

Who said the dot com days aren't back??

Source: [http://allthingsd.com/20131015/the-money-is-in-the-
email/](http://allthingsd.com/20131015/the-money-is-in-the-email/)

~~~
artie_effim
my guess is the '1-2 days' for you to get your cash is how they are monetizing
it. Sure, a poster above got $1 almost instantly, but as volume increases, 1-2
days in some form of investment vehicle will add up.

~~~
drited
They'd want to be making returns north of 20% per year just to offset the fees
alone if the numbers abalone outlined are correct.

Edit: to elaborate on how I calculated that:

1\. We don't know transaction size so I just focused on the 0.05% transaction
fee. Obviously if transaction sizes are small, the fixed element of fee is
higher as a proportion of the amount held for 1-2 days so the required return
to break even is much higher.

2\. If the transaction fee is 0.05%, $1 transferred turns into $0.9995

3\. Square is sending $1 to the recipient. Therefore to break even, it must
turn 0.9995 into $1.00 in the 1-2 days it holds the cash for.

4\. To do that in 1 day, it must earn a return that is roughly equal to 20%
annualized. So the annual return is (0.9995 x 20) = 0.1995. The daily return
is 0.1995/365 = roughly 0.0005.

5\. Adding the return of 0.0005 to the $1 brings you back to the $1 that
Square sends on to the recipient. So they break even if they are earning 20% a
year on the cash they hold before it gets sent on to the recipient.

Note the required return to break even is lower if they hold the cash for 2
days. However I'd guess they don't because one of the banks along the way
probably hold it for at least half that time. Also, even if they do hold it
for 2 days, you still have to overcome the fixed cost, so that moves the
required return back towards my 'north of 20%' figure.

PS - since the Square guys are obviously smart, I'm sure they've done the
above math so I'd question whether they really are paying these kinds of fees
on each transaction. However if they are, Abalone's dotcom days comment is
entirely correct.

------
redthrowaway
Do Interac email transfers not work in the US? They're pretty much the same
thing: send money to an email recipient who then clicks a link to deposit it
in their account. I'm surprised that this is big news, and that it seemingly
doesn't exist down south.

~~~
derefr
Interac is an exclusively Canadian payment-processor. The American equivalents
are PLUS and Cirrus--who could have implemented this long ago, but for some
reason haven't.

~~~
redthrowaway
I didn't realize that. The ubiquity of Interac around these parts, and its
deep integration with all things financial, led me to believe it was an
international institution.

After spending the last week trying to find a cellphone plan for my mother,
seeing a Canadian institution that mostly works and is mostly good for the
consumer is a welcome breath of fresh air.

~~~
aianus
At my bank interac e-transfer costs $1.50 a pop but paper checks are free and
unlimited. It boggles the mind.

~~~
icebraining
Only if you're still tied to the notion that prices are proportional to costs.
e-transfers are more convenient for consumers, so they can charge more for
them.

~~~
aianus
I see it as being incentivized to waste relatively large amounts of their time
and money printing, shipping, and processing my checks for stupid small
amounts like $23.46.

But you're right, I'm sure that for every person like me there are many who
just pay the $1.50 for the convenience.

------
MBCook
Note that it takes 1-2 days for the deposit. They must be using ACH to do
this. The 'free' part is great. Even with Square, I'd be hesitant to enter my
debit card number.

Planet Money recently did a great episode all about the US's ACH system and
why it works the way it does.

[http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/10/04/229224964/episode-...](http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/10/04/229224964/episode-489-the-
invisible-plumbing-of-our-economy)

~~~
kapilkale
Faster transfers are possible. Some companies (Kabbage maybe?) are able to do
same day or instant transfers without wiring.

I believe it's done by opening bank accounts at major banks, and then using
the interbank transfer system which is instantaneous and only requires an
account number and a name. Other services offer pushes to credit cards or
debit cards using bill pay systems or blind credits.

It isn't actually that hard to move money from person to person. The real
issues with this sort of stuff are: a) payments fraud b) money transmission
law and regulatory compliance

~~~
MBCook
Based on the comment above that tried it, your theory of transferring between
accounts in the same bank (and then reconciling later) would make sense.

The Planet Money podcast noted that some banks (Capital One, BoA) offer a
similar service if both ends have accounts.

------
jey
They're obviously taking a loss on this (due to credit card fees) if the
recipient gets the full amount sent. So this must be a loss-leader that's
building up to something else where they expect to make a ton of money.

That "something" is most likely just "replacing cash and cards", but will be
interesting to see how it plays out. It's a bold move regardless.

EDIT: I meant debit card transaction fees, not credit card fees.

~~~
jser
I believe that Amazon Payments is the only system that lets you pay someone
with a credit card, although it's limited to $1,000/month (otherwise people
abuse it, sending cash to each other to rack up points on their credit cards).

~~~
cstrat
I thought that there were now ways for payment processors to flag that a
transaction is not supposed to earn points? (eg. balance transfers, cash
withdrawals etc...)

Otherwise I could deposit $10,000 from my credit card into my on-line gambling
wallet, then withdraw it, repeat...

~~~
encoderer
I challenge you to find a website that will let you charge $10k into an online
gambling account from a credit card. And any that do exist will charge fees
higher than credit card rewards in most scenarios.

But yes, you also will not earn points on balance transfer transactions. But
they typically are processed via ach.

~~~
cstrat
You're right, I haven't tried to deposit more than about $1000.... however I
could just do that over and over again.

~~~
encoderer
With a credit card? Which site? To my knowledge this did not exist. Discount
fees would cost them 2% at least.

------
rmccue
Note that this isn't available everywhere: [https://squareup.com/help/en-
us/article/5136-troubleshoot-sq...](https://squareup.com/help/en-
us/article/5136-troubleshoot-square-cash#square-cash-supported-states)

(Would have been nice to see this on the actual page rather than hidden in
"Troubleshooting")

------
sahaskatta
Hmm neat, however what benefits do I get using this when it's also built into
Gmail and provided directly by Google Wallet?

[http://www.google.com/wallet/send-money/](http://www.google.com/wallet/send-
money/)

~~~
ketralnis
Because you don't use gmail? Because your target doesn't use gmail? Because
you're already a square user and not a Google Wallet user? Because you'd like
to use a debit card without paying a fee? Because you like the letter S better
than you like the letter G?

~~~
sahaskatta
I'm pretty sure Google Wallet in Gmail lets you send money to someone not
using Gmail. But you are correct. I guess it's a good solution if you don't
want to deal with PayPal/etc. when you happen to use your own email setup or
Outlook/Yahoo/etc.

~~~
ketralnis
It has nothing to do with being edge-cases like "if you're hosting your own
email thing". Personally, I just like to limit how many of my eggs are in one
basket, and I already have a lot of eggs in the Google basket. I like my
bank's own built-in system for this right now between me and their other
customers, and for everyone else I use venmo. It works great, and I have no
real complaints about either system.

But really I don't need to be talked out of using Google's like it's the
default, and I'm not clear on why you do. I don't really get the "why do you
use your own favourite toy instead of my own favourite toy?" crowd

------
nly
And composing an email to send someone money is secure how?

What stops someone from spoofing my email address, CC'ing it to
cash@square.com, and clearing me out? And if someone does get in to my email
account I'm toast?

~~~
uptown
You’ll receive a reply from Square asking you to link a debit card."

So you need to confirm it (and provide a debit account) I guess - but not sure
how subsequent transactions are handled.

~~~
pavel_lishin
Presumably linking a debit card only happens once, and afterward, you're only
contacted to verify suspicious transactions.

------
guiambros
Brilliant solution, but can anyone tell me how they avoid fraud? I just sent
money to a friend, and back. It worked fast and flawlessly, as expected.
Supposedly money will be posted to my account in 24-48 hours. All good there.

Now, how can they make sure that the email is genuine and wasn't spoofed?
Sure, they can check for white-listed domains and SPF records, but still seems
fairly weak process. The FAQ [1] doesn't say much either. Human validation is
even worse.

It helps that the send receives an email confirmation with the transfer, but
you may not check the email before the money is posted. I guess they're
pushing the onus of the proof to the receiver -- after all to receive the
money you have to have a bank account and a visa/mc debit card.

Whatever the security mechanism, it's a brilliantly simple solution. If it
takes off, it'll quickly replace Dwalla and other micropayments.

[1] [https://squareup.com/help/en-us/article/5144-square-cash-
sec...](https://squareup.com/help/en-us/article/5144-square-cash-security)

------
kiddz
I'm completely taken back by the simplicity of this + that it's free. So many
times have I paid a contractor via PayPal as a "friend" to reduce PayPal's
fees.

Moreover, why hasn't a bank or credit card company done something like this
yet? Amazing how the solution disappears into a cc: address line and unique
link in your email.

------
ytadesse
The simplicity of this is amazing.

That being said, I have a question: Here in Canada, I can send an email
transfer of funds from my bank account to my contacts by simply logging into
my bank online and specifying the email address of the recipient. Does this
type of system exist in the US?

~~~
medell
Agreed. Once this comes to Canada, it'll kill Interac Email Money transfers
(of which my plan only allows two free per month, and is not nearly this
simple).

~~~
alanctgardner2
I think OP meant the opposite. This is cool, but the incumbents in Canada have
already done it, and it's more trustworthy (it happens on your bank's website)
and 'good enough'. Even if the tech-savvy switch to Square, the average bank-
user will prefer to use INTERAC. At best this could pressure banks into giving
away more free INTERAC transfers with their paid accounts.

------
gizzlon
Looks like it's US only? ZIP code??

 _Residents of 48 US states have the ability to send and receive Square Cash.
Currently, you 'll be limited to receiving Square Cash if you live in the
following two states.._

------
mrtimo
I've had a debit gift card for 10 months with $35 on it. Just used this to
send that money to myself. Awesome.

Amazing what you can do with a card number and expiration date. Don't loose
your debit cards!

------
dangoor
It sounds great, but I'm always left wondering what the angle is for free
services. Will they make their money off of float? Is it something to do with
the way debit cards are charged?

~~~
sbirch
I think linking accounts to debit cards is pretty valuable on it's own. It
opens the door to making payments for a lot of people much easier down the
road.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Like how Paypal encourages you to tie your bank account to your Paypal
account; they get to charge merchants the credit card interchange rate while
taking advantage of the low ACH funding risk on the buyer/purchaser side.

------
downandout
I just scoured the site and saw no limits for receiving through square cash. I
can't imagine that this is actually the case; does anyone have any idea what
the actual policies are?

~~~
sirsar
$2500 a week, or $250 a week before ID verification, according to WSJ.

[http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405270230337690...](http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303376904579137512381777756)

~~~
takluyver
That's described as a limit on spending, not on receiving. It may be
symmetric, but it's not clear to me from that.

------
tiziano88
Reminds me of a similar gmail feature [http://www.google.co.uk/wallet/send-
money/](http://www.google.co.uk/wallet/send-money/)

------
BHSPitMonkey
Seems a little scary, to be honest. It's plausible that malware (or even just
somebody physically using your phone or computer for a minute) could generate
and perhaps send these emails on a user's behalf (and then delete the
confirmation and the "sent" copy, depending on the mechanism). If I were ever
to use this service, I'd surely use a dedicated email address that's harder
for me to casually send mail from.

------
tmsh
I was talking to a colleague about how Dwolla implements a similar pay
network. I don't know Square's implementation. It varies with different P2P
providers. Some create their own 'rails' in the backend (PopMoney, etc.). Some
follow the 'clearing firm' / brokerage model of the commodities / equity
markets. They have accounts in all major banks with deposit (debit) accounts
and simply do an inner-bank transfer on both ends on your (and your
recipient's) behalf.

That got me thinking though. It's 2013. The ideal solution is not to be
beholden to any centralized authority or group of 'clearing' accounts for
routing. The ideal solution is security but flexibility and distributiveness.
The ideal solution is a network of trust with similar 'hubs' / 'clearing
firms' that one can choose to route through automatically, have all the
routing be automated for you via solid protocols.

There is the chance to create clusters of payment routing networks that are
more elegant. It would make money movement so much more liquid in our world.
And would be a really great thing.

Maybe Square is the beginning of that solution. I hope it gets even more
distributed though. It's mostly companies leading the way for this. And good
for them. But there's another possibility: something very open, but given the
right protocols and architecture, very secure.

There is no incentive to create such an architecture other than the amazing
world that it would mean where you could travel to different countries and
authenticate seemless money transactions to whoever had a phone or email
endpoint (again there would have to be name servers + some sort of money
equivalent of SMTP + TLS / chains of trust + distributed clusters of shared
'clearing' bank accounts + routing algorithms to these accounts, etc.).

But that didn't stop Tim Berners-Lee or the early internet folks....

------
cryptoz
I want to learn more! The Help page is a 404 though:
[https://squareup.com/help/en-ca/topic/139](https://squareup.com/help/en-
ca/topic/139)

What banks does this work with?

~~~
kamjam
I wanted to do the same, to figure out how they make their money, but also a
404: [https://squareup.com/help/en-ca/topic/139-square-
cash](https://squareup.com/help/en-ca/topic/139-square-cash)

Looks like the help in only available in US English. If that is the case, and
it looks like they are using some sort of CMS, then it should be fixed up and
and content fallback to something useful rather than a 404. This is a link off
the landing page on a site with very little content, pretty unacceptable in
this day and age (but for now there is the benefit of doubt to assume you are
doing a beta run for feedback).

------
sbirch
I think they've done something quite clever by (I infer) getting people to
join up when they receive money. Venmo puts up an unnecessary wall by
requiring that the payee sign up before they can be paid.

------
SwaroopH
A point about spoofed email, Square always seems to ask the sender for a
confirmation whether the email was spoofed or not. I tested this by sending it
legitimately and through an unauthorized email server.

The only thing that was concerning was when I sent a spoofed email, the
receiver was able to know the sender name (cash account name) – "ABC is about
to send you cash". Very minor but it allows anyone to find out your name
provided they know your email address.

------
zcs
What are they using to do the animations on the demo site?

------
verelo
Yet another US only payment option. I get it, but at least state it somewhere
so people like me don't get excited and then suddenly disappointed.

------
k-mcgrady
I don't see anything on the site but on Google Play it warns the app can't be
installed on my Nexus 4 - I take it this is US only?

Edit:

Looks like it's not even available in all states in the US [1]

[1] [https://squareup.com/help/en-us/article/5136-troubleshoot-
sq...](https://squareup.com/help/en-us/article/5136-troubleshoot-square-
cash#square-cash-supported-states)

------
charleyma
Square Cash is definitely some sort of loss-leader, but for what?

Most obvious long-run plan would be for user/debit card acquisition (which has
lower interchange rates) to support their bread and butter business (merchant
tools) as this would increase their profit margins by reducing processing
expenses, especially since Square simply charges a single rate to merchants...

------
kgermino
>Free. Actually Free.

Ok now I'm confused. I realize it's probably a marketing ploy, but how could
the fees on this not eat them alive?

~~~
toomuchtodo
ACH transfers are stupid cheap compared to credit card transactions.

~~~
philfreo
debit cards != ACH

~~~
toomuchtodo
You can apparently convert debit card transactions to ACH transfers:
[http://www.digitaltransactions.net/news/story/3518](http://www.digitaltransactions.net/news/story/3518)

------
Lifesnoozer
There's a similar thing in Sweden, called Swish
([https://www.getswish.se/](https://www.getswish.se/)). But it's a cooperation
between banks, and you link it with your phone number, the transfer is
instant, you have to identify using something called Bank ID.

Square Cash seems nice, but I prefer the approach of Swish.

------
SeoxyS
I've been using Square Cash for a few months, and it's worked flawlessly. (A
friend used it to send me money, and I jumped on the bandwagon; didn't even
realize it was pre-release!) Square is attacking the consumer payment market
from all angles, and I think it has the potential to become one of the biggest
companies of this bubble!

------
abcd_f
This needs an out-of-bound verification for the transfers. At the very least,
it should confirm every new recipient - "Did you really mean to send $500 to
yahoo@google.cc?"

Seriously, I am all for the simplicity of the system and the flow of the
narration, but where the heck is the explanation of how this is _not_
trivially exploitable?

~~~
addandsubtract
I just tried it (not being a square user) and got a confirmation email.

"You’re sending $1 to xxx@yyy.com Just link your Visa or MasterCard debit card
to send this cash."

If I did sign up and not receive a confirmation email for any following
transfers I send, then I agree, I'd be worried as well.

------
chasingtheflow
I get that this is cool because it doesn't require an app or anything to work.
But I just don't see this replacing venmo for me. Albeit venmo requires a bit
of set up (so does this) and an app, but once that's in place sending money is
quicker and easier and I don't have to remember to cc anyone. Thoughts?

------
ateevchopra
I really liked the idea. Its really good for all the parents who are not so
tech savvy and can send money this easily. And its all free ? I don't
understand why ? i mean I am not saying that it should be paid of something
but being an entrepreneur myself I would love to know how you guys are making
money on this.

------
abvdasker
Not talking about the product for a moment. There are a lot of not-so-great
"flat design" websites out there, but Square Cash's is one of the best I've
seen. I keep seeing these loud sites with full-width graphics and animations
on everything. This is how it should be done. And responsive to boot!

------
kin
Interesting, I currently use Venmo, which ties into Facebook accounts so it's
super easy to find people. But Venmo is only free is you tie your checking
account.

With this I can tie my debit card (which I guess is the same thing). So, I
don't seen any real positive benefit over Venmo IMO. Can anyone else point
anything out?

------
pranavpiyush
This is simply a user acquisition mechanism for the rest of the Square
business. They lose money on every transaction.

Read this: [http://www.quora.com/Square-Inc-1/What-are-the-details-
behin...](http://www.quora.com/Square-Inc-1/What-are-the-details-behind-
Square-Cash-P2P-Service)

------
usaphp
I think thats an awesome idea, in the current world where the cash is not used
as often as before and its hard to just send money to your friend or relative
without dealing with long forms, swift codes, routing numbers etc...I am just
wondering how did they manage to make it free? Any ideas?

------
jonheller
I love and trust Square, but would be extremely hesitant to trust my debit
card anywhere online. Someone going on a charging spree with my credit card
doesn't bother me as much as the thought of someone stealing this number and
taking the money directly out of my account.

------
marcamillion
Anyone know if this will work with international debit cards?

E.g. if I have an debit card with my account at a Jamaican bank, can someone
from the US email me cash and it arrives instantly or is this just a US
service? Can't find any details about this on the site.

~~~
kintamanimatt
I'm guessing it's a US-only service because Google Play refuses to let me
install it, saying it's not compatible with my device. The only reason I think
of (I have a pretty recent phone!) is that I'm not in the US.

------
d0m
I don't really care about that new feature, but man, I love that background
video playing with the animation.. Is there a library to help create that?
Seems like it's a <video> with some animation css on top of it?

------
enraged_camel
I'm not quite sure how to sign up. When I go to "Account" at the bottom right
and enter my email address, it takes me to the purple "how to sign up"
section, but it's not clear what to do from there.

------
sami36
Free. I bite, What's the catch ? I presume recruit users to use the Wallet app
?

~~~
ketralnis
This is similar to competing services on venmo and paypal. I believe they make
money on:

1\. The "float". The interest that they make from the period that people have
cash in their accounts. If an ACH takes 4 days to complete, they may take 5
days to complete it, and collect a day's worth of interest

2\. The halo effect. Now you're a Paypal/venmo/square user, and therefore more
accessible to vendors using them as a payment processor. Those vendors pay the
service transaction fees.

------
keyle
I cannot believe this is happening. This is extremely cool...

But didn't we agree that email wasn't a safe protocol?... How long do I have
to cancel a transaction? Are they going to honor the fake ones like Visa
does?...

------
pradn
Echoing the other commenters: this is really great, but I'm a little weirded
out because it's free. I'd like for them to be upfront about why it's free,
since all the alternatives aren't.

~~~
ketralnis
That's not true, venmo and paypal and google wallet are all free if you use
ACH.

------
bydpark
This looks pretty interesting, but, as everyone said, security sounds like it
will be a huge issue. Will there be other methods of verifying a user for
email, now that it can be linked to your bank account?

------
dalys
I was just impressed by how the colors of the buttons in the top left corner
(when idling at the section with the video background) is synchronized with
the color theme of the video background.

------
AustinLin
Hands down one of the best interfaces / UX I have ever used. It's about time
someone made sending money really simple and free. Can't wait to see how this
service matures.

------
rjsamson
I remember seeing this talked about a while back and not thinking much of it,
but the details look slick. Sending money with no signup required seems pretty
awesome.

------
elwell
If they are really losing 0.05% + 22¢ every transaction, then Venmo should use
Square Cash to make a lot of large transactions, forcing them into bankruptcy.

------
mallipeddi
Since the emails are not encrypted, anyone in the middle who's capable of
scanning this traffic can basically see all the transactions passing by?

------
unclebucknasty
In addition to phishing risks noted below, I wonder how many typo squatters
will pop up for the cash@square.com cc.

------
ya
[http://d.pr/i/oEmN](http://d.pr/i/oEmN) chrome banned the request.

------
Romoku
Aren't emails sent in plaintext? What are the security and privacy
implications of using this service?

~~~
ketralnis
Since it's based on email, the same as email. You can encrypt the body but not
(most of) the headers. So yes, there's a privacy concern there.

------
goeric
Glad they changed it from 50 cents to free. Smart move.

They solve this problem with the least amount of friction.

------
kirk21
Any idea what mailsystem they use to handle all these mails? Or is it an in-
house build system?

------
electic
The security here is very very questionable. It is non-existent and that
worries me.

------
aioprisan
how does the email source verification work? SPF and DKIM checks? any idea how
they can credit a debit card? I'm guessing they rolled out their own solution
with a few of the biggest US banks, having accounts at each one?

------
abhia
Would this still work if someone used a fake email script?

------
taigeair
how do they make money with this? BTW I didn't know I could scroll for the
longest time! I thought it was an animation.

------
magico
It doesn't accept British Pounds yet :(

------
hnriot
on an aside, what a great website, the background video and colorization all
work so well.

------
tapmap
what about sending cash to an international debit card? Has anyone tried this?

------
meonkeys
Did Square just kill Dwolla?

------
hipaulshi
hmm? isn't Email address fakable?

------
maerF0x0
NSA will start to deposit the cash you send, its just "Metadata"

~~~
ketralnis
I understand the attempt to farm karma by mentioning the NSA in every single
unrelated thread, I'm just surprised that this is the best that you could do.
Surely there's a better story to be told in monitoring financial transactions
(which they actually do) than in pretending that they're going to steal the $8
you sent to your buddy for beer.

~~~
maerF0x0
I'm not sure the source of your frustration. The idea was to be funny and hint
at the fact that email is not that secure. I wouldnt feel secure sending more
than $8 on this platform... How am I to know that my email (or packets as part
of the transmission) are 1) Encrypted, 2) Not tampered with 3) From whom they
claim to be from.

email guarantees none of those traits 1. Encryption from server to server is
optional, 2. Who knows how many MXs are hit until it finally makes it to my
mailserver 3. Mailservers have know authentication mechanisms that ensure
someone cannot send mail on my behalf.

Yes, well configured mail servers will make attempts at these things through
SSL/TLS connections, doing direct connections only (no proxies/relays) and by
only accepting mail from servers listed as MX servers or with SPF records etc.

Thanks for the -4pts.

