
You Are Not a Commodity [audio] - Tuomey
http://podplayer.net/#/?id=19052284
======
trcollinson
I really enjoyed this entire podcast. One of the best parts (starting at about
21 minutes in), are the counterarguments. So many of these arguments are what
I hear out of a lot of engineers. Compensation, loyalty, stability, leverage,
and mentorship. He really explains what these arguments are, why people
psychologically hang on to these arguments, and why they are fallacies. At the
same time, he is very careful to show why it's ok to work for corporations.
But if you are going to work at a corporation, at least understand that there
are other ways to not be in a situation where you are a commodity, this is so
worth listening to.

The one thing that seems to be missing from his podcast is that he never
really talks about the downside of breaking off on your own. There are many
counterarguments to breaking off on your own, and honestly they follow well
with the counterargument for why you SHOULD leave your corporate job.

For example, one of the counterarguments he gives it the compensation counter
argument. Yet it is true, corporate engineers DO make a very high level of
compensation per working unit compared to, well, just about every other job in
the world (by percentage anyway). Stability is another counterargument. Going
out on your own is not actually all that stable. He argues that going on your
own isn't nearly as unstable as people think. I argue it is not nearly as
stable is big corporate engineering life.

Now this isn't to stay you shouldn't go out on your own. I honestly think you
should. Listen to the podcast, stop being a commodity.

~~~
crablar
This is Jeff from SE Daily. Thank you so much for these comments.

I did try to address the downsides as best I could and I think they are even
better addressed in the follow-up with Preethi.

Most of the downsides of leaving your job are not instability because for most
people in tech, that instability can be stabilized with stuff like debt,
contract work, living in super cheap housing etc.

The main reason people do not go out on their own is either:

-lack of recognizing there are alternatives to the corporate meatgrinder

-laziness and addiction to video games, drugs, or other consumptive behaviors

-shame/defeatist/nihilist attitude

The epidemic scale of all three of these in tech industry is pretty disgusting
--all the more reason to jump ship.

~~~
trcollinson
I haven't been able to see the follow up yet, but I will! And by the way, I
love your style. Excellent podcast!

I got that out of your podcast as well, the points you bring up here. And I
agree 100%. Honestly, it is so sad and, as you say, disgusting, how many
engineers use these excuses to stay in the position of a commodity. It's
really self defeating to the engineers. When people occasionally bring up
making a software engineers union or something of that fashion, it is to
basically alleviate the commodity pain without addressing the causes, like the
lack of recognition, laziness, and defeatist attitudes. Unfortunately, the
only real way out is to break out on your own. Once you do, it becomes rather
obvious that you had nothing to fear at all. Nothing of substance anyway.

~~~
rabidrat
I've struck out on my own twice now. I worked my butt off both times, and made
no money either time. The first time, I burnt out after my business partner
left, and the second time, we tried to make/sell a video plagiarism detection
service.

These excursions did not just cost me the income I would have received from a
corporation, but they also decimated my savings. I have friends who are my age
who have worked at corporations consistently, and they have about 10x the
savings I have now. Two of them are retired (just over 40 years old).

I don't regret my excursions, because I hated many aspects of the corporate
life, and I am the kind of person who has to see for myself. But I won't be
striking out on my own again. Money, like software, is hard to make reliably
at scale. I would no more tell an engineer to strike out on their own in
business, than I would tell an entrepreneur to start making an MMORPG.

------
andrewmu
There's a bit of irony between the title and the wording in the EU cookie
warning:

"We use cookies to personalise content and ads [..]. We also share information
about your use of our site with our social media, advertising and analytics
partners."

------
justinlardinois
That summary could really use some paragraph breaks...

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ashwinaj
Funny thing, I was having this discussion with my friends at a dinner party to
do something on our own (a non-tech business idea). No cigar...

It's so ingrained in a lot of people that having a stable corporate job is the
best you can get. The whole corporate culture makes you so risk averse that
it's hard to venture out to do something on your own. This is despite knowing
fully well that their jobs are disposable/replaceable.

~~~
trcollinson
I think a lot of people say they believe their jobs are disposable/replaceable
but in reality they are thinking "My job is disposable/replaceable if it
wasn't me doing it. I make it indispensable!" That's one problem and
corporations use it to their advantage.

I have been in the position a few unfortunate times where I had to let some
people go. Some for cause, many due to downsizing. It never ceases to surprise
me when people say something along the lines of "but how could you do this to
me? I work so hard. You need me!" and they believe it. Heck, even now as I say
this I can think of times where I thought exactly the same way about myself
and my job. But, it was never the case.

~~~
ashwinaj
Fair point.

There's no cure for ego or being delusional.

------
tbirdz
Thanks so much for providing a written transcript of the audio. I can't tell
you how often I've come across some interesting looking podcast, but haven't
had my headphones, or the time to listen to it. I find I have much better
retention and faster consumption when reading plaintext. When I listen to
audio only content, my mind tends to wander, and I get distracted with
something while the words wash over me without sinking in. Reading text
requires more engagement, and it's easier for me to maintain my focus.

I wish all audio content producers included a text version with their work as
well.

------
mmagin
Wat. We weren't spending $50k/each on servers before Amazon AWS.

~~~
rhizome
I'm sure this one is a bit old (and incomplete besides), but matches my
understanding:

[http://searchaws.techtarget.com/IBMSoftLayer/Adding-Up-
the-P...](http://searchaws.techtarget.com/IBMSoftLayer/Adding-Up-the-Price-
Performance-Advantages-Of-Bare-Metal-vs-Virtualized-Servers-in-the-Cloud)

tl;dr: bare metal 2.5x faster for 1/2 the price.

------
itamarwe
I love the software engineering daily podcast...

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bryng
follow up discussion:

[http://softwareengineeringdaily.com/2016/09/15/commodity-
dis...](http://softwareengineeringdaily.com/2016/09/15/commodity-discussion-
with-preethi-kasireddy/)

------
hrgeek
It's a disputable issue

~~~
sctb
Please don't make unsubstantive comments like this on HN.

------
rhizome
Warning: autoplay

