
‘How Much Suffering Can You Take?’ - wallflower
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/06/sports/virginia-quintuple-anvil-triathlon.html
======
hprotagonist
In my experience, there's a difference between "how much suffering are you
willing to take", and "how much suffering can you take".

This race is interesting because participants can stop whenever they want to
-- and they know it. So there's a meta-contest happening for each participant.
I have, on very long bicycle rides, found myself spending a lot of mental
energy on knowing that I could stop any time.

This is not always true, even in recreational activities or endurance sports.
I have been on climbs where there is no reasonable option for retreat and
getting off the rock wall is actually a worse option than finishing the climb.
Similarly, I've been on backpacking trips where weather and terrain dictate
that the only reasonable course of action is to (for example) get off that
ridge _now_.

In situations where I don't have the option of choice, I find I'm capable of a
lot more.

~~~
nugget
A friend from my Navy days told me the only way he survived BUD/S hell week
was to mentally accept that he would either pass the course or freeze to death
in the water.

~~~
jacobolus
For anyone else curious, BUD/S = Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL, part of the
US Navy’s special forces training.

Considering the crazy life-threatening things special forces soldiers might be
commanded to do in a real mission, weeding out anyone who doesn’t think like
your friend is likely one of the main goals.

~~~
overcast
Actually SEAL's are Special Operations, US Army has the Special Forces
designation. They are completely different in the context of the military.

~~~
jacobolus
Wikipedia: _Special forces and special operations forces are military units
trained to conduct special operations.[1][2][3] NATO defines special
operations as "military activities conducted by specially designated,
organized, trained, and equipped forces, manned with selected personnel, using
unconventional tactics, techniques, and modes of employment".[4][1]_
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_forces](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_forces)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_special_force...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_special_forces_units#United_States)

> _They are completely different_

From what I can tell “special operations” and “special forces” mean the same
thing, as far as lay definitions of the generic terms are concerned.

Here’s what Collins Dictionary says: “special forces: élite, highly trained
military forces, specially selected to work on difficult missions”

~~~
overcast
I'm just telling you how the military designates the branches.

~~~
rhizome
Sure, and it's useful as far as it goes (I didn't know precisely), but this
isn't the military.

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js2
Pete Kostelnick just ran across the US in 42 days breaking the prior record by
3 days. I guarantee you he tolerated a lot of suffering:

[http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/26/well/move/how-to-run-
acros...](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/26/well/move/how-to-run-across-the-
country-faster-than-anyone.html)

Then there are events like the Badwater 135 and the Vol State which seem
surgically designed to inflict suffering:

[https://ultrasignup.com/register.aspx?did=34762](https://ultrasignup.com/register.aspx?did=34762)

Or the Marathon de Sables:

[http://marathondessables.co.uk/](http://marathondessables.co.uk/)

Or how about the 52 day Sri Chinmoy Self-Transcendence 3100 Mile Race in
Queens, New York City:

[http://3100.srichinmoyraces.org/](http://3100.srichinmoyraces.org/)

I recently participated in my first 24h foot race, completing 105 miles.
Nearly 400 of us running a 1.5 mi loop around a lake for hours on end. Why do
we do these things? I had a whole day on my feet to contemplate that question
and I never came up with a satisfactory answer. I finally decided there is no
why. We do it because it's there. And maybe because we have a bit too much
time on our hands. Nonetheless, I find this text from the Vol State link
poetic:

 _Many will fail. But, for those who find the steely will and muster the sheer
dogged tenacity to overcome the impossible obstacles, and reach the rock on
foot, the Vol-State can be a transcendental experience. No words can
adequately describe the sense of combined relief and amazement to be
experienced at the Rock. No one can explain the regret that this incredible
journey has actually come to an end. Former King, Barry Crumrine probably
summed up the Vol-State experience as well as it can be put into words: “I
found in myself something that I never knew was there.”_

Suffer well my friends.

~~~
dockd
> Why do we do these things?

This sounds terrible, but quite often, it's to say you did.

A joke posted in my gym: Q: How do you know someone has run a marathon? A:
They'll tell you.

~~~
js2
There's lots of variations on that joke. People are proud of their
accomplishments. I've heard it about people who Crossfit, people who run
Boston. I've seen folks with Ironman tattoos. And I'm sure you've seen plenty
of 13.1 and 26.2 stickers, and all the triathlon mileages too. Shrug.

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Mz
Sorely disappointed. I have a chronic illness. I don't get to sign up for five
limited days of torment, prep for it, then be done. Every single day involves
trying to just not give up.

I hate that people with chronic illness get written up like pathetic losers
while people who choose to do stuff like this as a hobby are lauded for it.

Wimps, every last one of them.

~~~
DarkTree
I think the difference is that they are willingly trading suffering for some
personal benefit, whereas you don't actively choose to suffer. While that's
unfortunate, you are unfairly writing them off because you arbitrarily have to
suffer. Sure, it's commendable that you don't give up, but that doesn't negate
the testament to the human will that these individuals are going out of their
way to test. It seems to me that you believe anyone who doesn't endure a
chronic illness is a wimp.. well guess what, some sufferers don't get to
choose to live and have to die in front of their friends and illness due to
terminal disease. Does that make you a wimp relative to them?

~~~
Mz
Eh, _choosing to live_ in my case has been an incredibly long, hard journey. I
would rather have died. Annoyingly, I was too competent and the beat goes on.

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thisrod
I think many HNers would enjoy the Australian version of this:

[http://worldrogainingchamps.com.au/](http://worldrogainingchamps.com.au/)

A rogaine only lasts 24 hours—no one has been tempted to organise a longer
one. On the other hand, the requirement to keep staggering along a running
track is replaced by a stricter one: you need to keep navigating precisely, in
the dark, away from tracks, using only map and compass. The need to stay alert
and keep thinking makes for a more subtle contest, and in some ways a more
interesting one.

Then there's the aesthetic part. Instead of a marquee full of used bandages,
you get the McDonnell Ranges by moonlight, and the feeling of autonomy that
comes when you're running through the middle of nowhere at 3 a.m. with a water
bottle, a snakebite bandage and a few muesli bars.

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austinl
Saw it mentioned below, but if you're interested in this stuff, I'd wholly
recommend watching a documentary called "The Barkley Marathons" on Netflix.

It's a 100-mile race through the woods in Tennessee, with a 16,500m climb and
a time limit of 60 hours. Only 14 people have ever finished.

The documentary does a good job of interviewing the participants and the
founder to get at what drives people to enter the race. Most believe (myself
included) that overcoming truly challenging obstacles is an enriching
experience.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barkley_Marathons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barkley_Marathons)

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bertiewhykovich
My immediate thought was "this is pathological" \-- some artifact of modern
malaise. But on further thought it doesn't seem all that different from the
sort of punishing rituals that people have undertaken for the majority of
human history: mortification of the flesh is a consistent theme. However,
these rituals have almost always been spiritual in nature, with the goal
seemingly transcendence (of the flesh, the self, what have you). It's not
entirely clear that this parallel holds for the event described in the article
-- but maybe I'm missing the point. Is it, ultimately, about transcending
those limitations that "hold the self back"? Is the spiritual height being
reached really just "your best self"?

~~~
0xdeadbeefbabe
> Is it, ultimately, about transcending those limitations that "hold the self
> back"? Is the spiritual height being reached really just "your best self"?

I suppose that's the purpose of life too.

~~~
bertiewhykovich
Well, that's certainly the ethos of American modernity -- but there seems (to
me, at least) to be little reason to believe that it's actually true.

And, even if we were to assume the difficult-to-justify proposition that the
purpose of life is to be your best self, it's hard to buy that this sort of
behavior actually brings you closer to that goal -- any more than the Skoptsy
were actually better able to commune with God after castration.

(It probably sure felt like it worked at the time, though.)

~~~
eli_gottlieb
>the purpose of life is to be your best self

That is a tautology if I've ever seen one. "Best" is meaningless without some
preexisting standard.

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module0000
This article smacks of hubris. While it's impressive that these everyday
people ran, biked, and swam some distance...it can get much worse. The link
below is about as "tame" as special operations training gets, and it's not
"tame" at all.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranger_School](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranger_School)

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bootload
_‘How Much Suffering Can You Take?’_

State of mind.

Turn this question around. Ask yourself _" How much suffering can you take to
stop others being hurt?"_ This in my view is a better question to know the
answer. Put this way I define it as being able to stick an arm in a fire, hold
it there until the job is done.

If you think about this way, you realise the real challenge is mental than
physical.

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hughes
Am I the only one being taken to a login page when clicking this link? Since
when do I need to create a facebook account to read an article on the new york
times?

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kough
Seems comparable to my undergrad experience /s

~~~
curiousgal
ditto! French CPGE for me though.

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clifanatic
Oh, from the title, I thought it was going to be about patch releases...

