
A new look, logo, and website for Fastmail - Ultramanoid
https://fastmail.blog/2019/06/24/fastmail-new-logo/
======
enriquto
First time that I read about this scary Australian backdoor stuff. As a (very
happy) client of Fastmail, I regret to have to look for other options.

Are Australian legislators really that clueless? There seems to be a very
strong incentive against making business with Australian companies.

~~~
mfer
Two thoughts...

First, compare practical law impacts if you look elsewhere. For example, in
the US the gov can get email from providers that's more than 180 days old
without a warrant.

Second, Fastmail like Google, Microsoft, and most others has access to your
email. They comply with court orders for email like other providers. Fastmail
has noted the gov doesn't need a backdoor to get to email. Same with other
companies in other countries.

~~~
JumpCrisscross
> _in the US the gov can get email from providers that 's more than 180 days
> old without a warrant_

With a warrant signed by a judge. Also, if the keys are on your device the
service has nothing to turn over. The court can't force the provider to
engineer in a backdoor.

None of those checks or limitations apply in Australia.

~~~
Forbo
In the US, FISA courts can authorize technical assistance orders to force
compliance.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protect_America_Act_of_2007#3....](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protect_America_Act_of_2007#3._Requirement_to_assist)

~~~
extra88
Even if they don't technically call it a warrant the principle is the same,
the executive branch doesn't have the authority by itself, they must get
authorization from the judicial branch.

Most people don't include national security investigations in their threat
model. The more general risk is a court allowing the executive to cast a broad
net to collect information rather than accounts known to belong to targeted,
named individuals or groups.

------
rmbryan
Here is our discussion of fastmail vs. protonmail from 3 months ago:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19372882](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19372882)

~~~
mfer
It would be great if Protonmail had calendar and contacts even close to
Fastmail. Email alone is often not enough.

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dewey
I know there's always the discussion when a new design comes around and
everyone complains but I actually thought the old one looked way better and
unique. The new one feels like a generic startup landing page.

~~~
wjdp
Long time fastmail user. First exposure to this was an unfamiliar icon on my
homescreen, was a bit confused/concerned. I'm sure I'll get used to it but
echo your thoughts, it does feel very generic and while dated FastMail's brand
was very recognisable.

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Tgsgsh
Isn't Fastmail a Australian company?

You forgot to mention about new backdoors.

~~~
garren
Whoa. I hadn't heard anything about Fastmail's backdoor concerns [0]. Thanks
for bringing it up!

[0] [https://reclaimthenet.org/fastmail-australian-encryption-
law...](https://reclaimthenet.org/fastmail-australian-encryption-law/)

~~~
hellcow
Yikes. I hadn't heard of this either. Reconsidering my email host right now,
and that's a shame because I really liked Fastmail.

~~~
digitalni
This is the only reason why I did not go with fastmail. I am still looking for
an alternative to gmail though...

~~~
Deimorz
Making your decision based on that doesn't make sense, because it doesn't
affect FastMail at all. They're not an end-to-end encrypted service. They can
already access all of your data without a backdoor (and need to be able to, to
provide features like search).

More info in this blog post, specifically under "The AABill doesn’t change
your privacy or data security with FastMail":
[https://fastmail.blog/2018/12/21/advocating-for-privacy-
aabi...](https://fastmail.blog/2018/12/21/advocating-for-privacy-aabill-
australia/)

------
hs86
A few weeks ago they canceled my Paypal payment subscription due to "technical
reasons" and now it seems like only credit card payments are available
anymore.

This is a little scary because credit cards are not that common here in Europe
and having such sudden changes it not confidence-building.

Luckily, I use my own domain and if Fastmail turns too unreliable, I can just
switch to an other provider and point my DNS entries over to them.

~~~
dewey
Where are credit cards not that common in Europe? I don’t think I no a single
person that doesn’t have one and most banks even give you a free Visa card
(prepaid) with your normal bank account in Germany.

~~~
flipchart
Pretty uncommon in the Netherlands. Yes you can get one, but most people here
don't have one, possibly due to very few merchants accepting them, and when
they do, they pass the CC fees to the consumer

~~~
dewey
> Nevertheless, around 55% of the Dutch population has at least one credit
> card, which they mainly use during holidays abroad or when shopping online.

Not as high as I expected it to be honest but the article is pretty
interesting. Apparently people have them but don't use them because they are
not widely accepted in stores and they are very debt averse.

Source: [https://www.dutchnews.nl/features/2018/01/credit-cards-
not-y...](https://www.dutchnews.nl/features/2018/01/credit-cards-not-yet-
popular-among-the-dutch-despite-the-advantages/)

------
samwhiteUK
"The circle of trust"

Please.

~~~
imtyler
This is, of course, why they’ve qualified the association as being a personal
one. “For us,” the circle represents…

Implying that this interpretation may/should be true for others comes across
to me as self-serving, though. You can attach whatever meaning you wish to a
circle, but unless you make an actual effort to convey that meaning, then a
circle remains... a circle. And they haven’t made any effort to do so here.

IMO, They’re just serving up a big cup of hyperbole for anyone willing to take
a sip. Par for the usual corporate course, I guess.

~~~
everybodyknows
Indeed -- I'm a less-happy user now. The landing page of blog wastes the
reader's time with big substance-free cartoons, a variable-column layout, and
absence of any item date indicators. You'll need another click on the
"Archives" button to get to a useful listing.

And how about this gob of drivel in the announcement:

> ... makes it easier to talk about why it's important to feel good about
> email.

Meanwhile, documentation of essential features has gone stale:

>Keep in mind that U2F is not enabled in Firefox by default. >Good if you want
the best security and you're only using Chrome.
[https://www.fastmail.com/help/account/2fa.html?u=04c140b1](https://www.fastmail.com/help/account/2fa.html?u=04c140b1)

U2F 'security.webauth.u2f' is enabled by default, at least for the 67.0.4
Linux build, current on Ubuntu 16.04.

------
philips
I have been looking at a number of the providers in SaaS consumer email
including Proton, Tutanota, Soverin, Fastmail, etc.

It is striking how both Soverin and now Fastmail have a breezy abstract style
with colorful illustrations. While the other providers feel like VPS hosting
landing pages or enterprise sales pages.

I wonder if the consumer focused brand of Fastmail and Soverin is aspirational
or where their customer base actually is.

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_Codemonkeyism
"You can rely on Fastmail for service and support, and trust that your
personal information is protected."

Not if I get into a dragnet by Australian security services.

Wanted to get away from Gmail. Evaluated Fastmail, Protonmail, Mailbox.org and
Posteo. Posteo went out because it doesn't do custom domains on principle,
Protonmail went out because search is an issue with encrypted mails at rest.
I'm not using Email for something that is illegal (journalism, opposition,
...) in my country, so encryption at rest has only minor impact on my
decision. Fastmail looked nice with features but keeping my mail in the EU
weighted more. Now that I no longer run a large website, I like the GDPR ;-)

In the end migrated to Mailbox.org on my own domain, went smoothly and I'm
quite happy now.

Minor gripe: I wish Mailbox.org would understand IMAP is an API like every
other API and provide unique API keys for applications (like GMail does).

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nickik
Will the app finally work with 2FA authentication? This really is annyoing if
its impossible to use the mobile app.

~~~
chucky
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but I have been running the app for
years now with 2FA turned on.

~~~
nickik
I'm talking about using security keys. Not TOTP.

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kabwj
Instead of spending money on a redesign you don’t need, make your service
cheaper. Now that’s something I’d celebrate.

~~~
1123581321
Assuming FastMail’s revenue is $10MM and the rebranding marketing work cost
$250k, and lasts three years, you could see a 4c/mo savings on an individual
account. You’re probably better off hoping they can use their brand to achieve
greater economies of scale to keep more substantial costs down.

~~~
_Codemonkeyism
Interesting, could you point me to the source of the $250k?

~~~
1123581321
There isn’t a source. It’s just a rough estimate based on what agency work and
their internal salaried time might cost.

~~~
_Codemonkeyism
So it's just a random number. Based on the CI projects I've been involved in
its around $1M.

~~~
1123581321
It’s based on projects I’ve been involved in, but yes, the potential amount
could range a lot higher.

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dmix
Considering the amount of changes this article is extremely light on details.

Does "new website" mean marketing website or a redesigned web based mail app?
I'm assuming this is just marketing/branding changes given it's written by a
marketing person.

~~~
dombili
If the screenshots on the landing page are any indication, the overall design,
both on the desktop and mobile, looks to be the same but with a new logo.

I can't check it myself because I closed my account with them a couple of
weeks ago, so maybe a current user can confirm.

~~~
unicornfinder
Out of curiosity, what lead you to close your account? I only switched to them
fairly recently and I've genuinely been very, very pleased with their service.

~~~
slenk
Just a thought - the fact that they are in Australia and can be legally
compelled to install backdoors.

~~~
dmix
Did Fastmail make any effort to notify their userbase that this was now the
law in the region they operate in?

~~~
mfer
See [https://fastmail.blog/2019/02/28/aabill-and-
fastmail/](https://fastmail.blog/2019/02/28/aabill-and-fastmail/) and
[https://fastmail.blog/2018/12/21/advocating-for-privacy-
aabi...](https://fastmail.blog/2018/12/21/advocating-for-privacy-aabill-
australia/)

~~~
dmix
Thank you.

