
On Contact Tracing and Hardware Tokens - rvense
https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=5820
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AnonC
> With exposure notification, carriers with mild to no symptoms such as Person
> 1 would get misleading notifications that they were in contact with a person
> who tested positive for COVID-19, when in fact, it was actually the case
> that Person 1 gave COVID-19 to Person 4. _In this case, Person 1 – who feels
> fine but is actually infectious – will continue about their daily life,_
> except for the curiosity that everyone around them seems to be testing
> positive for COVID-19.

I didn’t completely understand the part I’ve quoted in italics. Why would
Person 1 just go about their daily life after being notified of an exposure?
Isn’t the purpose of notification meant to be used by responsible people who
will isolate themselves? If people won’t be responsible (which is common),
then how would a full graph tracing scenario with a hardware token with no GPS
be accurate enough or more effective in comparison? People in those scenarios
could also behave irresponsibly, including not carrying the tokens or not
checking for exposure.

I’m sure I’m missing something very basic in this article.

~~~
gilbetron
That's my read, too. I think they are in error, at least the way described.
Maybe what they are trying to say is that Person 1 wouldn't think they were
the cause, and so wouldn't register on the app as having Covid, and so they
wouldn't be backtraced further to notify others? That makes more sense.

~~~
bunnie
Yes, that is the meaning. Person 1's individual time line looks like this to
Person 1:

\- Person 1 contracts the virus, becomes infectious, but shows no symptoms.

\- Person 1 gives the virus to Person 4.

\- Person 4 becomes ill and shows symptoms, thus seeking testing.

\- A positive test result causes Person 4 to report the exposure. This causes
their key to be flagged in the exposure database.

\- Person 1 downloads the updated exposure database and then receives a
notification that they were exposed due to a match to Person 4's key.

\- The next step is up to Person 1. However, a perfectly reasonable scenario
is Person 1 now thinks, "I feel fine, but I will be extra vigilant and in case
I feel symptoms I'll go for testing right away!"

In this case, Person 1 would never register on the app as positive because as
an asymptomatic carrier they would never suspect they have the virus, and thus
never go for testing even though they are infectious.

~~~
masswerk
Without the graph, Person 1's subjective timeline is probably much like this:

"Oh, that Person 4, whom I met five days ago, has become infected. However, at
that time she probably wasn't infectious and I'm showing no symptoms anyway."

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gruez
>unlike an app, where too often uninstalling the app simply means an icon is
removed from your screen, but some data is still retained as a file somewhere
on the device.

What is this referring to? On iOS at least deleting an app means the app and
its data is gone for good, except for keychain data. Same with android, except
for on sdcard/internal storage. But in either case the developer would have to
go out of their way to store data there. If they're being malicious they might
as well upload the data to the mothership to begin with.

~~~
aspenmayer
They are referring to the ways that contact tracing APIs are implemented at
the iOS and Android level, and apps just utilize the API. I believe the
article is speaking to the APIs (Android and iOS) and how they implement
contact tracing independently of third party apps, which use the APIs.

------
brisance
> Furthermore, Person 2 is a hidden node from Person 4, as Person 2 is not
> within Person 4’s set of immediate notification contacts.

This is the system working as designed. What purpose would be served that
Person 4 needs to know Person 2 was also a contact of Person 1? It's not a
perfect system, but this is a strawman argument.

The Google/Apple system isn't perfect, and relies on people behaving like
responsible adults. The real world isn't like that, as the Corrupted Blood bug
shows.

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MintelIE
Isn’t anybody else a little worried about how creepy this all is? The
applications are endless, and I have this feeling that default on will become
the norm, then the setting to turn it on and off and even see if you’re being
contact traced will eventually disappear.

~~~
dr_dshiv
1\. If you aren't careful, you are killing people

2\. First amendment rights do not apply in an emergency

3\. Don't compare covid19 to terrorism

4\. Keep calm and carry on working from home

~~~
mdorazio
I think you missed the point of the parent post. What's to stop governments
from having a perpetual state of semi-emergency with always-on citizen
tracking "because we don't know when this could happen again"? I think some
worry over this is warranted.

~~~
WrtCdEvrydy
> What's to stop governments from having a perpetual state of semi-emergency
> with always-on citizen trackin

The same thing that stops companies from doing it continously and selling that
data to the government, companies, bounty hounters, and ad sellers... I don't
know what it is actually.

