
The People Who Risk Jail to Maintain the Tor Network - Errorcod3
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-operators
======
fiatmoney
Every paragraph of this piece has me yelling "NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE" at my
monitor. Had they wanted to, it would have been incredibly easy for the FBI to
spin any of the many quotes in this article into a "false statement" and an
insta-felony, just out of spite.

If you're going to run an exit node, find an attorney _beforehand_. You don't
necessarily need to put them on retainer, but figure out who you're going to
call instead of walking into an FBI field office like, frankly, an idiot.

~~~
mg1982
It reminds me of the astounding naivete of Aaron Swartz's girlfriend (or
whatever she was at the time) in talking to the FBI and then being surprised
that they were just looking for shit to pile on him and nothing else.

Don't talk to the cops:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik)

~~~
jsmthrowaway
This meme bugs me because it is possible to heed the advice while still
speaking to the police. I find that the only people who parrot it are those
who have never been on the other end of the table. I've seen random people run
over and advise a witness to "not talk to the police" while they were
describing what happened to an officer at the scene of an accident. You can't
package deeper context with something simple like "don't talk to the cops" and
expect people to understand it. I think this general advice does more harm
than good because of the way it's delivered.

The correct conclusion to come away with from the advice is to be vigilant
when interacting with those who have the power to prosecute you, and often
that means invoking your right to remain silent -- but not always. You should
also know when you need a lawyer -- again, not always. If the cops knock on
your door because they're looking for a lost kid, calm down and get over
yourself, they're not looking for you.

Sadly, you and me get that, but others take the advice to the extreme and I've
seen both of my examples firsthand.

~~~
yardie
As a guy that had his name run for bench warrants while being a witness to a
traffic accident, you can speak for yourself. In some cases nothing good comes
about speaking to police, especially in minority/poor communities.

~~~
jsmthrowaway
As a guy who spent four months in county pretrial detention on three felonies
and a misdemeanor and no bail, I _do_ speak for myself. I didn't speak to the
police and lawyered up and I spent 119 days in jail. The next time, the FBI
came; this time, I was suspicious but not actually involved, and I carefully
spoke to the FBI without a lawyer and remained a free man. It's almost as if
there's more to it than the Fifth Amendment.

And yeah, if you're riding a warrant, you probably shouldn't give your name to
a law enforcement officer. That's called being stupid, and if you think it's
shady to have your name run when a peace officer interacts with you and knows
your name, you have some case law to read. That's their _job_. Witness details
go in the same exact system.

I get the gist of the advice but I'm tired of seeing knobs on YouTube with
their phone out recording an officer while shouting "I invoke my rights!" over
and over again, and I think part of it is the way this advice is interpreted.

~~~
dhimes
>As a guy who spent four months...

Holy shit! What exactly _are_ you doing in your spare time? ;)

~~~
ryanlol
You don't necessarily have to do anything, refusing to talk (not necessarily
help) makes keeping people in jail so much easier.

------
aestetix
It's worth noting that if you want to support Tor exit nodes but do not want
to run your own, you can donate to the Noisetor project. Noisebridge, a 501c3
nonprofit, has sponsored an exit node for several years now:
[http://www.noisetor.net](http://www.noisetor.net)

~~~
liotier
And the French equivalent: [https://nos-oignons.net](https://nos-oignons.net)

------
zupreme
This is actually a good piece. It sticks to the facts without an evident
attempt to push an agenda either for or against Tor.

The operator ("Richard") seems relatable to a fellow tech like myself, and by
the end of reading this I found myself thinking, "Maybe I should run an exit
node too, since I have used Tor quite a bit".

All in all, a good piece.

------
plg
I thought Tor originated with the U.S. navy?

~~~
fiatmoney
It did. And the State Department & CIA use it to promote subversion activities
in other countries. And the FBI and NSA try to crack it & discourage its use
to monitor everyone's traffic.

"The government" isn't a monolith; it's made of quasi-independent agencies
often operating at cross purposes.

~~~
dzhiurgis
> "The government" isn't a monolith;

And somehow individual is expected to be.

------
at-fates-hands
So what are options besides Tor right now? Is anybody working on anything more
secure?

~~~
dublinben
It depends on what you're looking for. Tor is still the best at what it does.
Alternatives like Freenet solve completely different problems.

------
mirimir
> For this reason, and ​others listed on the Tor Project website, operators
> are strongly advised to only run their exits remotely, by renting out server
> space.

Better yet, do that anonymously. Always work via Tor. Use a false identity.
Pay with well-mixed Bitcoins. Observe good OPSEC.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
That doesn't sound like a good idea. When law enforcement come knocking, your
position is less defensible if you seem to be trying to hide your tracks.

~~~
mirimir
If your OPSEC is adequate, they won't know where to come knocking.

~~~
rjaco31
I get your point, but it's more of an ideological battle here. Those people
want to be legally allowed to run an exit node, not to use a compromised box &
hide their tracks.

~~~
mirimir
That's a great ideal, and I wish them success. I'm more pragmatic. Raids are
life-changing experiences, even if nobody gets killed, or ends up in prison.
And where I live, freedom to legally run Tor exit nodes is limited, with poor
prospects of increasing.

I am not recommending the use of compromised servers. I'm recommending
anonymous leasing from legitimate providers, which are located in
jurisdictions that are unlikely to freely cooperate with your home
jurisdiction. Ideally you run Tor-ramdisk, and store the node's credentials in
another anonymous server, so there are no logs.

This is rather like preemptively not talking to police except through your
attorney.

------
paulhauggis
I think Tor is great, but I just can't trust the people operating the exit
nodes.

~~~
2close4comfort
You are wise not to. Not everyone who is an exit is on your side. It is better
to assume that they are going to do everything nasty possible to you and your
data.

~~~
cpncrunch
Also, you should probably assume that the FBI is monitoring the exit node you
are using.

~~~
Uhhrrr
Or running it.

~~~
belorn
And the Internet connection you are using.

------
christianbryant
It's a moral responsibility to cooperate with law enforcement when they are
trying to track criminals like pedophiles, terrorists or similarly malicious
persons. I don't think there should be any argument there, Tor operator or
not.

However, we have every right to anonymity and to encrypt our communications
and data such that only those we want to see it can. So what to do?

Perhaps Tor operators can perform some act of vigilantism and expose criminals
like the above without incriminating themselves through booting out and
releasing the data of the pedophiles, terrorists and what have you.

Being a revolutionary and a lover of freedom is not a crime, and the criminals
who give us a bad name are making it one.

~~~
A_COMPUTER
>I don't think there should be any argument there

I'll argue against that point. I don't live in a system where I can trust that
helping the police won't be turned around on me because they're just looking
for somebody to pin charges on or because of bullshit laws that shouldn't be a
law to begin with.

I have assisted the police exactly one time, when I witnessed a kidnapping,
but I had to be extremely cautious because my roommate was a marijuana smoker
before the state I lived in at the time had legalized it, and he had his
stupid paraphernalia all over the apartment. The cops wanted to come in to ask
me questions but I couldn't let them in the house because I didn't know what
shit was lying around, so I had to make up a ridiculous excuse to do the
entire questioning outside on flimsy lawnchairs in the yard. I was put into
the position of trying to decide if I should risk fucking over my friend or
not report a kidnapping.

~~~
bjwbell
You just admitted to lying to law enforcement which is most likely a crime in
your jurisdiction.

Just to reiterate, yes the police are not on your side. My dad had his arm
broken by police purely for not obeying a voluntary evacuation order (forest
fire).

~~~
MichaelGG
That's why it is important to always refuse to talk, refuse to let enter,
refuse consent to searches. Do it as a matter of habit so that you don't end
up lying.

