
Qatar: Abolish Exit Visas for Migrant Workers - zura
http://www.hrw.org/news/2013/05/30/qatar-abolish-exit-visas-migrant-workers
======
tokenizer
Qatar and Saudi Arabia, which is even named after the royal family (who does
that anyway?) are countries that offer us a glimpse of neo feudalism
([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-
feudalism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-feudalism)).

This is a potential problem for every country. While western governments are
considered much different than both Qatar and Saudi Arabia, the trajectory is
leaning towards the paradigm those two countries occupy. This is of course,
inequality, which is the measure that slavery falls onto one side at the end.

We can look at this policy as a policy, or we can have an intellectual
argument on the merit of this type of governance. GOVERNMENT is literally what
society as a whole, consents to being legitimate use of force. Military, Law,
and Order.

No obviously we can assert that the power of the Sauds and the Thani is
illegitimate today in the western world, because we ourselves have in our past
moved away from the concentrated and hereditary control of power, into the
hands of the super rich (the other end of the inequal spectrum).

So while I applaud hrw.org for pointing attention to this horrible policy, and
more intellectually honest headline could read, "Qatar's People: Overthrow
your illegitimate rulers.".

Any westerners who are reading this article and are upset or angry, need to
fight against neo-feudalism in the US and European countries. The only way we
can _truly_ help the people of Qatar and Saudi Arabia is by stronghand
political means. Not seeing anything from the US regarding these matters
speaks volumes of their slide into neo-feudalism in my opinion. This is
something seen both by anti-authoritarian leftists AND rightists(is this a
word?).

~~~
nknighthb
> _named after the royal family (who does that anyway?)_

Depends on the scope of "that", but...

Kingdom of Hanover (defunct), Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, Liechtenstein,
Virginia, Maryland, Georgia, Carolina (both), Alberta, Prince Edward Island,
Victoria.

And of course Pennsylvania was named for founder William Penn.

Should we start in on cities?

~~~
saljam
I love this game. Ottoman Empire, Bolivia [1], China [2], Philippines,
Mozambique.

1:
[http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sim%C3%B3n_Bol%C3%ADvarl](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sim%C3%B3n_Bol%C3%ADvarl)
2:
[http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Chin](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Chin)

~~~
cldr
May be worth noting that the Chinese didn't name their country China, they
named it Zhong guo.

~~~
benmathes
Which is almost more arrogant, since it translates to "The country in the
center". It's a little easier to understand why there's a strain of "we are
the center of the world, outside our borders are barbarians" when you look at
pre-modern borders: China is bordered by oceans, the russian steppes, the
xinjian desert, and the tibetan plateau.

~~~
cldr
Well _according to Wikipedia_ (yeah I know, but I don't feel like searching
elsewhere) it may or may not be taken with the meaning "center of the world."
And even if it is, it's more of an observation than a boast, since from their
perspective they were in the middle of a bunch of other countries like you
said. And hey, they call America "beautiful country" so they're not being
stingy.

------
jdmitch
This is related to a broader international anti-slavery campaign, as the exit
visa system is essentially the instrument for enforcing wage slavery in Qatar.
cf. recent Guardian articles related to the world cup construction:

[http://www.theguardian.com/global-
development/video/2013/sep...](http://www.theguardian.com/global-
development/video/2013/sep/25/qatar-migrant-workers-world-cup-host-video)

[http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/25/revealed-
qatars...](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/25/revealed-qatars-world-
cup-slaves)

~~~
yapcguy
Yes, given the story of a football slave, how ironic that they are holding the
football World Cup in Qatar.

I hope every true football fan boycotts Qatar 2022 and puts pressure on top
players and FIFA to move the World Cup to more deserving countries.

~~~
kubiiii
I also really hope footballs fan wont go there. Maybe they'll fill the
stadiums with the surviving workers.

~~~
AYBABTME
Those who go might never come back, so either ways...

------
pcurve
"Qatar and Saudi Arabia are the only Gulf Cooperative Council states with an
exit visa system"

They're in a good company. Only other countries to have exit visa are North
Korea and Uzbekistan. (In the latter, you can still travel to most former USSR
neighbors without exit visa)

~~~
genieyclo
Also Eritrea. It is why there are shoot to kill orders for Eritrean border
guards if they see any of the thousands of Eritreans fleeing Eritrea every
month.

~~~
pcurve
I'm embarrassed to say I hadn't even heard of that African country and their
people's ordeal until you mentioned it. Thanks for the information.

------
annasaru
For a migrant worker, it won't be surprising if the passport is deposited with
the Employer at the time of joining work. I don't speak from personal
experience, but from anecdotes I heard from friends and extended family. So
even if there isn't an exit visa required, they don't have the passport, which
means they can only travel with permission of their employer. A modern form of
slavery.

~~~
Larrikin
I've always wondered why the employees can't just report their passports as
lost or stolen in these kinds of situations and get a new one.

~~~
jrockway
Who says they can't? There is absolutely no mention of talking to the French
embassy or consulate in this article. That's the first place I'd go.

~~~
jacalata
In this story, it doesn't say he's missing a passport, it days he does not
have permission to leave the country. I'd be surprised if his embassy could do
anything about it legally.

~~~
jrockway
Plenty they can do. Here's an example: "Give this guy an exit visa, or the
next time your Snowden equivalent flees to France, we're going to make sure
that his name is spelled wrong on the paperwork, if you know what we mean."

------
altero
>The onus is on the expatriate either to find another exit sponsor, who must
be a Qatari national, or to provide a certificate that there are no
outstanding legal claims against the person trying to leave 15 days after
publishing a notice in two daily newspapers.

This seems to be doable workaround. This could be possibly even automated,
perhaps start-up idea?

I do not think this could be changed politically, US and those states are best
buddies and any serious political pressure would be vetoed.

~~~
objclxt
> _This seems to be doable workaround. This could be possibly even automated,
> perhaps start-up idea?_

I am guessing you haven't actually worked in Qatar or Saudi Arabia, the two
Middle Eastern countries that retain exit visas. I have (Saudi Arabia), and I
think it's really naive to think this is do-able, and even a little bit
insulting to think a start-up could somehow solve what's going on here.

Let's consider the two alternatives: first of all, they are both no-goes for
the type of workers who are trapped by exit visas. Placing a notice in two
daily newspapers? Even if you manage to get that, you've then got to get the
certificate. Getting any kind of official documentation out of the bureaucracy
is next to impossible for someone who a) isn't a citizen of Qatar / Saudi, and
b) has no wasta (which roughly translates into 'clout', or 'who you know').

Which brings us onto the other option: finding a Qatari national. The case
cited in the article, of a French professional footballer, is rather unique.
The vast majority of people unable to obtain exit visas are immigrant workers
doing low-paid jobs no Qatari or Saudi wants to do. They are, for all intents
and purposes, effectively slaves. I saw it with my own eyes when I was working
there: indeed, I remember reading several stories of migrant workers trying to
stow themselves away in planes out of Saudi.

So as an exploited worker let's say you manage to find a Qatari willing to
sponsor your exit. Except you won't, for two reasons: firstly, no national
would risk creating trouble with the state (especially in Saudi, which has a
religious police force (the Muttaween), and even if you _did_ find a national
willing to help you (which again, would be virtually impossible) the chances
are they'd have no wasta and would almost certainly end up in a dead end of
paperwork and bureaucracy.

I met many good people in Qatar and Saudi: people who think the current system
of 'government' (if you can call it that) is wrong, and that the large numbers
of workers coming in from India, Indonesia, and the like are being exploited.
But they are simply not able to do what you're suggesting - subvert the system
- without serious and profound consequences.

------
lignuist
Yet two other countries on my personal No Fly List.

...

[x] UK (can force people to hand over passwords)

[x] US (probability that they reject people at the border/airport for
ridiculous reasons)

[x] Qatar (exit visa required)

[x] Saudi Arabia (exit visa required)

...

Even if I'm not sure if those exit visas also apply to short term visitors.
Better safe than sorry.

~~~
objclxt
I don't think Saudi will miss your custom - unless you're a Muslim (visiting
for Hajj) or coming in on business you're going to find it near impossible to
get into Saudi anyway. The only country it is harder to get tourist visas for
is probably North Korea.

> _UK (can force people to hand over passwords)_

You are aware that most, if not _all_ countries can force you to hand over
your passport? If you are arrested and bailed the government don't really want
you trying to flee the country. Even if you're not arrested many courts can
compel you to surrender your passport (for example, in a child custody case).
Some countries will also make you surrender your passport if you're entering
certain disputed territories (Chinese citizens, for example, must give up
their passport when entering Taiwan).

~~~
jzwinck
He said passwords, not passport. The latter is just one tiny document (but, ID
theft is scary). The former is explicitly so they can unlock all your secrets.

