
Twitch nabs exclusive streaming deal with Blizzard for e-sports events - janober
https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/20/twitch-nabs-exclusive-streaming-deal-with-blizzard-for-20-major-esports-events
======
nawgszy
I think it's very important for Twitch to do this, and I think they need to do
it more, to be honest. Let me tell you a story.

I am a big Counter-Strike: Global Offensive fan. I play a bit, but I vastly
prefer to watch professional play. I got into the game a year ago or so, and
that seemed to be a glorious time to spectate the game. Streams were virtually
exclusively on Twitch, and every weekend it felt like there was a ($100k+
prize pool) tournament, and every week there were high quality pick-
up/practice games between professional players being streamed.

Of course (who can blame them?), YouTube Gaming wanted a piece of this pie.
They cut some exclusive deals with a couple online leagues and tournament
organizer, bringing a sizable chunk of the content with them to YouTube
Gaming.

However, the users DID NOT follow (and UX over on YT can be almost entirely
blamed), and the ensuing fracturing of the community has seen CS:GO drop from
consistently top 5 in Twitch games to regularly outside the top 10. The thing
is, though, the missing viewership mostly didn't migrate to YouTube, instead
just deciding to not watch at all. The appeal behind Twitch and CS:GO was that
there was basically non-stop _very high_ quality content being streamed, and
you didn't need to put in a single ounce of effort to find it. YouTube very
much does not have that same user flow down, at all.

And now (even though the position isn't particularly degraded), owing to the
relative difficulty of finding tournaments on YouTube OR Twitch, I find myself
watching a lot less. So goes the general vibe of the community. Sure, woe is
us, 2 whole sources? But consider this: YouTube's discoverability is horrible,
its UI plagued with reruns emblazoned with a red "LIVE NOW" that screams for
your attention at first and later leaves you unwilling to trust any visuals on
the site; Twitch, on the other hand, with its inability to pause / rewind /
stream a smooth 1080p60 (hell, even 720p60 stutters 10x as much as YouTube's)
leaves you comparatively upset about video quality when you watch there.

So I guess my point is that Twitch clearly loses in the tech department to
YouTube, but its benefits (more entertaining chat, better discoverability and
UI/UX) are more than enough to make you a dedicated user when exclusivity is
part of that package. It'll be interesting to see which side can overcome its
issues to gain the advantage.

Note: edits for readability have occurred over the 5 minutes following the
posting of this comment

~~~
throwaway91111
Who watches twitch?

I mean this seriously; not as a dig. Why be exclusive when everyone knows
youtube? I may even watch a video if i see it when browsing.

But who just watches OTHER PEOPLE play games for fun? How can you build a
hugely expensive business off this? Is it all basically advertising for video
games funded by companies?

~~~
Pfhreak
Millions of people do? I do. There's a few reasons I do:

* Streamers connect with their audiences, I can chat with them live - ask questions about the game or technique

* Streamers are entertainers. They joke, cry, rage with you. They are engaging people.

* Community. I'm a subscriber to person X, so are you!

* Skill. Streamers are often the best in the world at their games.

* Can't play now. Cooking? Folding laundry? Watch some twitch.

* Events. Exports, and charity events like games done quick are amazing.

* Discoverability. Finding a new game or a new streamer for a game I like is super easy.

How do you build a business? Some streamers have thousands of people paying
them $5 a month. Twitch takes a cut. They show ads, they collect donations,
they sell in game products and the games themselves. (Twitch splits the
revenue for those with their streamers. ) It's powered by viewers and ad
revenue, is what I'd guess.

~~~
omarchowdhury
How can you chat with your streamer when the live chat feed is a massive spam
box due to the sheer volume of users? Unless of course you're watching the
lesser known streamers.

~~~
Pfhreak
Steamers shape their communities. Even with 10k people watching, some have
very civil chats.

------
xfalcox
This sucks for the consumer. During DotA's The International I can choose
between many services (in-game, Steam, Youtube, Twitch) and pick the one which
works better for me.

~~~
ekianjo
yup. Exclusive deals are just like exclusive games for consoles. It only feels
good for the first party publisher and the fanboys but its bad for pretty much
everyone else.

~~~
jakebasile
I wish more people were able to see this. Any exclusive that isn't due to
actual limitations and is solely being done because someone paid for it is
harmful to consumers. The console manufacturers do it to prop up their
consoles, Netflix et al. do it to prop up their services. In this case, Twitch
is doing it to ensure their dominance in streaming.

There are exclusives for the Nintendo consoles that depend on their wacky
hardware. There are more PC exclusives than all the other systems combined for
many reasons: no cost to release, no cost to update, no online service costs,
vastly superior compute power, unrestricted machine access, and special
peripheral support (e.g. HOTAS for flight sims) which combines to enable lots
of smaller, niche games to come out on PC.

Paid exclusives suck. They exist purely to make companies happy because it
forces people to buy what they don't already have or need and it makes the
people who construct their identity around a brand happy because they have
something other people cannot have.

~~~
zanny
> There are exclusives for the Nintendo consoles that depend on their wacky
> hardware.

Not really. Actually, not at all. It is a terrible excuse for Nintendo, who I
think is one of the worst offenders in the gaming space at using exclusivity
to drive hardware sales and lock in.

The Wii Mote, for example, has been fully supported on PCs since about 2008 -
a year after it came out. And there were probably beta drivers dating back to
its release. It uses bluetooth, after all, its just an HID device. You can
easily ship a game for PC that requires that controller.

Since their Wii U pad was just a dedicated computer that communicated over
wifi (proprietary, I think?) with the base console, that kind of logic code
can be ported anywhere. It just requires a server that converts the pads touch
events and controls into a local touchscreen + joypad with haptics and gyros.
_Every_ major OS supports these, and has since well before the Wii U came out.

And don't get me started on the Switch. It is _just_ an Android tablet (and
the worst part is Nintendo stopped Nvidia from releasing a much needed Shield
Tablet 2 because it would have just been a literal Switch without the
controller parts included for half the price in exchange for using their SoC)
with attachable joystick pieces. Again, every OS can support this input style,
and any game can require it.

Nintendo has invested in manufacturing and distributing really shitty
computers (since the Gamecube every Nintendo console has been underpowered
compared to the _average_ PC and was way behind its contemporary consoles) and
writing a giant proprietary freedom-hating set top OS for them that uses
proprietary APIs that are non-portable for developers to target for what I
believe _no reason_ than power hunger. There isn't even a profit motive in it
- they make a tiny amount of money per console sold, nobody ships games on
their systems anymore so they aren't getting any licensing money, and the vast
majority of their income is from first party sales. But their first party
titles _only ever support their shitty hardware_. It means they are
dramatically reducing their potential audience of $60 pure profit releases per
box (and their games have ravenous fans, even those that cannot _afford_ a
redundant $300 piece of junk) to move console units that don't make any money.
The _only_ reason to do that is because that is what you have _always_ done.
So you keep doing it, because you are addicted to having that level of
control, even when it doesn't have a business benefit. It is pretty stupid.

~~~
ekianjo
> exclusives for the Nintendo consoles that depend on their wacky hardware.

He was talking about games, not the hardware itself, I think.

------
niftich
In the past 12 months Blizzard has integrated Facebook login [1], Facebook
Live streaming [2], and Facebook friend lists [3] into their revamped Blizzard
App (previously known as the Battle.net Launcher). The live streaming
functionality was particularly a shot across the bow [4][5] against someone
like Twitch/Curse, so it's interesting to see that Amazon has now responded
and forged this new deal with Blizzard. I'm curious if it's just about the
content (driving viewers to the platform) or if there's more in the works
between these two.

Warning, slow links: [1] [https://venturebeat.com/2016/06/06/facebook-to-
provide-login...](https://venturebeat.com/2016/06/06/facebook-to-provide-
login-and-live-video-for-blizzards-overwatch-game/) [2]
[http://www.wowhead.com/news=255393/blizzard-and-facebook-
str...](http://www.wowhead.com/news=255393/blizzard-and-facebook-streaming-
and-login) [3] [http://www.wowhead.com/news=260084/battle-net-and-
facebook-f...](http://www.wowhead.com/news=260084/battle-net-and-facebook-
friends-integration) [4]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12371440](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12371440)
[5]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12381447](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12381447)

~~~
j_s
Also noticed they are headlining Destiny 2 (from Activision+Bungie) in the
Blizzard App store, and that it will be launched from the Blizzard App ( _"
Blizzard Desktop app and registration required to play"_)

~~~
ihuman
Activision and Blizzard are both owned by Activision Blizzard, so by putting
Destiny 2 in Battle.net they can keep the share Valve would take for selling
it on steam.

------
LandoCalrissian
Can I just say that the Justin.TV to Twich pivot was one of the best examples
of pivoting to your market that I have ever seen?

~~~
bballer
Agreed. I loved listening to the startup school radio episode about how they
got started and how they pivoted.

[https://blog.ycombinator.com/startup-school-radio-
episode-2-...](https://blog.ycombinator.com/startup-school-radio-
episode-2-how-justin-dot-tv-became-twitch/)

------
randomdrake
Twitch has some very serious moderation challenges ahead of them, that they
haven't proven they're able to solve, before I can be convinced this is a good
thing. Online communities rely on good moderators and moderation tools to be
able to thrive.

I am a big Hearthstone fan so I enjoy watching the competitions sometimes.
It's been consistently the highest viewed Blizzard game on Twitch for a long
time now so it's important to bring up in this discussion.

PlayHearthstone[1] is the official channel for Hearthstone events so you would
think it would be representative of how Blizzard wants to operate in the
competitive space. Whether it is due to technology, lack of oversight, or
simply not caring, Twitch chat is notoriously atrocious; rampant with
trolling, vitriol, spamming, and terrible behavior.

To make things worse, there's absolutely no consistency with how events are
moderated, if they are at all.

For one event, members are banned for simply asking questions, or providing
constructive criticism to the casting of the event with mods creating trigger
phrases or words that lead to users getting banned immediately without knowing
why. For other events, the chatters are allowed to use all manner of racial,
sexual, demeaning, and outright threatening and horrific text towards the
casters, the events, and the participants.

It's disgusting to watch, completely unprofessional, and something that has
been brought up multiple times by the community with no concrete resolution.

Either Blizzard finds it acceptable, Twitch finds it acceptable, or they
haven't figured out how to do well in moderating live chats with thousands of
people.

Given their track record, I'm hesitant to be excited about the exclusivity.

[1] -
[https://www.twitch.tv/playhearthstone](https://www.twitch.tv/playhearthstone)

~~~
jsnk
Please no, I love Twitch chat the way it is. If streamers want to moderate
chat some way, let them do it, but I really hope Twitch doesn't enforce one-
size fits all topdown moderation rule. That's how you kill vibrant communities
and subcultures who are the top 10% who make Twitch fun, and streams' finances
sound. If you find memes and jokes crude for some stream, go to some other and
support their streams.

So many games and communities have been killed by topdown approach to content
moderation.

~~~
WaxProlix
They need to provide tooling to _enable_ moderation, not necessarily enforce
it. Forsen's chat isn't going to change, you will still get your gachi on, but
official tourneys need a way to stop the insane racism. Look at TerrenceM's
comments about how he hoped his parents didn't see the chat while they were
rooting for their son in his first competition - it shouldn't be that way, and
Twitch (and Blizz/Playheartstone) is failing streamers and competitors by not
providing anything in this area.

~~~
broodbucket
It is difficult because even if you ban racist words, people will still find a
way. The old BrainSlug emote is a perfect example of this (for those who don't
know, it was the face of a black streamer. He was so sick of people using an
image of his face to be racist that the emote was changed to a Futurama-esque
actual brain slug).

It's tricky. If someone in chat is spamming ANELE ITS JUST A CLOCK BRO ANELE,
it certainly has racial connotations, but is the statement itself _racist_? I
don't know. I don't like it but I'm not sure if I'd be comfortable with
someone being banned from chat because of t.

~~~
bduerst
But do they find a way that is still relevant to the public?

I doubt he would be as embarrassed if commenters spammed _88_ , as opposed to
more openly, well known racist terms. If they want to speak in a secret code,
then there's already a long history of racists doing that which isn't unique
to online.

------
detaro
Interesting this is now news, where a few years ago it would have been almost
obvious that these events would be on Twitch, where else could they be? (not
quite, there were competitors, but more specialized)

~~~
hkmurakami
In the west, YouTube gaming. In Korea, AfreecaTV. In Japan, Nicovideo I think.

~~~
satsuma
China has DouyuTV as well as a few others I'm no doubt forgetting

------
spicytunacone
Wonder if Twitch somehow got a hold on major Brood War events, namely the
Afreeca Starleague, seeing as how it was already getting restreamed in English
on Twitch. With the HD remaster I imagine Blizzard would want to take back
more control and hold more events of their own, too.

On that note, I still don't know what version/patch the competitive community
wants to use going forward, either.

------
Aissen
Twitch is nice, but my biggest grief is that it's not YouTube. YouTube is
literally everywhere, on every TV, set-top-box, cast device, etc. Twitch is
not. Which make it more complicated to watch streams and vods/replays.

It's the same issue Netflix competitors have. They need to get everywhere
_fast_.

------
sergiotapia
That's a shame, I like Mixer so much more than Twitch. Twitch at this point
feels like MySpace, with all the custom bullshit sprinkled around. Mixer is
nicer and clean, and f-a-s-t. I'm waiting for the Mixer apple tv app and I'll
be all set.

------
diziet
Blizzard e-sport events were already streamed primarily on Twitch.

------
james4k
A little surprising given that Blizzard owns MLG.tv, but maybe there are some
more interesting details.

~~~
kevhsu
Not surprising in light of the fact that mlg.tv has not been a serious
competitor to twitch for ages.

------
falcolas
As noted in the article, Twitch is owned by Amazon now, so they have a lot of
money and other leverage to play with. It's not a knock against Twitch, but
it's also not as much of a coup as the headline and article suggest.

------
ArlenBales
Exclusive streaming deals are bad. E3 proved that Twitch has trouble with high
viewer counts. YouTube had higher viewer counts on just about all major
conferences at E3 and had no network problems.

------
gigatexal
Sweet! I’m more likely to watch eSports than the NFL or the NBA

------
blitmap
I'm just tired of bundling deals together. I saw an ad online today saying if
you're a Twitch Premium user you will get a gold loot box in Overwatch. I just
want to enjoy Overwatch, and it feels like those loot boxes almost never deal
out good loot anymore. I do not look forward to earning loot boxes.

~~~
adrr
Loot boxes don't effect gameplay.

~~~
bduerst
If loot boxes don't have value then why are they being used as a carrot?

~~~
secabeen
They have social and visual value, but not gameplay value.

~~~
bduerst
That's my point. Saying they're not affecting gameplay doesn't mean much when
they have other value to players.

~~~
atom-morgan
Doesn't mean much other than the fact that Blizzard implemented a feature that
doesn't ruin the integrity of the game.

~~~
bduerst
Blitmap seems to think it means something. Again "integrity" or "mechanics" of
gameplay aren't the only value here.

------
l33r
It's more like Amazon* nabs exclusive streaming deal with Blizzard.

------
eterm
Twitch has destroyed the way I consume twitch. I used to stick twitch on my TV
while eating dinner or for big events such as csgo majors or LCS finals.

But as of about a month ago twitch now blocks chromecast.

I can no longer watch twitch on my TV and I hate that fact. And no I'm not
going to buy a 'fire stick', I don't like being manipulated into buying
something when it previously worked well and has been deliberately downgraded.

~~~
Aissen
I only watch Twitch on Android TV (with their awful that decides to log you
off periodically), but seriously, WTF Twitch ? Why block Chromecast ?

BTW, did you try any technical workaround?

~~~
MachinShinn-
TIL there are hacker news readers who use such awful garbage as chromecast and
Android TV...

~~~
Aissen
Not all HN readers/commenters are in the Bay Area ;-)

------
6stringmerc
Wait, 320 Million viewers? That has to be a historical aggregate of sorts.
What kind of source for that claim exists? Oh, let's check the link!

Hmm, okay, it goes to an article that cites another source. The BBC? Reputable
source, so here's the deal:

> _Esports generated $493m (£400m) in revenue in 2016, with a global audience
> of about 320 million people._

So yeah, that's an aggregate of all of 2016. Let's compare it to the highest
watched Super Bowl on record - Broncos vs. Seahawks: 111 million US viewers.
In ONE DAY.

Yes I understand that I'm skewing pretty hard, but even the worst Super Bowl
viewing in modern times pulled 39 million or so.

My point is that yeah, eSports looks like it has some numbers, but I work in a
high rise building full of financially successful people that are desired
marketing targets and I have little doubt barely 0.01% of them watch eSports.

Or, if I want to be a real jackass about it, I could just call eSports the
equivalent of K-Pop. The numbers are there to show it's popular, sure. It's
just not the target market for millions of dollars of advertising budget for
US eyes.

~~~
djloche
To put "eSports" into perspective, let's take League's 2016 World Championship
in the context of the other world championships.

2016 Basketball Worlds Final Game: 31M viewers 2016 Baseball Worlds Final
Game: 40M viewers 2016 League of Legends Worlds Final: 43M viewers

So, okay. eSports isn't quite at the American Football level. But, it right in
line with the other top broadcast sports

