
A Design Defect Is Breaking iPhone 6 Pluses - sorenso
http://ifixit.org/blog/8309/iphone-6-plus-gray-flicker-touch-death/
======
pjc50
It's (speculated to be) flexing PCBs under BGA chips again.

This is a serious problem when making devices thinner: they become more
flexible, but the joints are not flexible, so after a while you get a crack
all the way across a joint and it either becomes intermittent or capacitively
coupled.

A decade ago I had a white plastic-bodied Macbook which developed a similar
fault in the graphics. But it's not just Apple, the famous "red ring of death"
was a similar problem induced by thermal cycling rather than physical bending.

~~~
celticninja
except with the RROD Microsoft admitted the issue and provided a replacement
or repair service. Apple are just ignoring the issue and leaving the customer
suck up the cost and hassle.

~~~
marksweston
Are they?

My 20 month old (i.e. out of warranty and with no Applecare policy) iphone 6+
started showing the symptoms a week and a half ago. The "Genius" at the Apple
Store immediately recognised the symptoms and processed a free replacement
(refurbished) phone without any prompting or negotiation on my part.

So while it's true that they are staying very quiet about it in public, it
does seem that knowledge of the problem and a free replacement policy has been
communicated within the company.

~~~
danieldk
Note: if you are in the EU, settle for nothing less than a new phone (rather
than refurbished).

There was recently a lawsuit in the Netherlands where someone sued Apple after
receiving a refurbished phone after replacement under warranty [1]. She won
the case:

[https://www.iphoned.nl/nieuws/rechtszaak-apple-
garantie/](https://www.iphoned.nl/nieuws/rechtszaak-apple-garantie/)

The judge based his verdict on a verdict of the European Court of Justice [2],
so it's likely that the outcome would be the same in other EU countries.

[1] 20 months would still fall under warranty in the EU.

[2]
[http://curia.europa.eu/juris/liste.jsf?language=en&num=C-404...](http://curia.europa.eu/juris/liste.jsf?language=en&num=C-404/06)

~~~
colejohnson66
What's tong with refurbished? With regular devices, only a few are tested each
batch. With refurbished, every single piece of the device should be tested.

~~~
cududa
Of the test batch of new phones, the standards tested for are much higher.

On refurb, many (but absolutely not all point of contact for chips to PCB) are
tested, but require lower tolerances

------
EA
Happened to my launch-week iPhone 6 Plus. Apple employees at the store were
aware that phones had this issue but acted like it wasn't a problem they could
treat. They treated it as a "bad screen" problem by replacing screens. After a
couple of screen replacements the issue didn't go away.

Ultimately, I had to pay $329.00 for a refurbished phone after they swapped
out a few screens which didn't make the problem go away.

There is a class action lawsuit forming:
[http://mccunewright.com/iphone-6-touchscreen-
defect/](http://mccunewright.com/iphone-6-touchscreen-defect/)

~~~
usaphp
How would they make you buy a refurbished phone? I recently dropped my iPhone
6s (again) and screen finally cracked, I brought it to apple - they tried to
replace the screen and it did not work, so they just gave me a brand new phone
for a price that I paid for screen replacement (~$140)

~~~
cududa
My understanding of the heuristics (as an owner of iPhone 6 Plus [not 6s],
with many broken screens)- if there is body damage around the screen in the
thin aluminum parts, you need a full replacement (the screen can't sit
properly and can't seat properly). If there's no body damage, they replace the
screen. If the replaced screen still doesn't pass calibration, you get a
refurbed phone

------
pawadu
Remember "bendgate"? It turns out that while the bending may not be big enough
to be permanent or visible it may still be enough to cause a chip to loosen
from the PCB. Louis Rossmann has a great video on the subject

edit: Rossmann's video is already in the article, so enjoy this other great
Rossman rant
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45rRLkjdgrU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45rRLkjdgrU)

~~~
akgoel
i had this happen to my 6+ a year while under warranty. The Apple Genius Bar I
took it to had seen this problem before and knew to twist it to get it
working. He made sure it was backed up to iCloud and then gave me a
replacement. This new phone also got the gray bar of death after 3 weeks.

I speculate that I was bending the phone in my pocket. I had gained 20 pounds
in six months due to job stress and suddenly my pants were tight and my phone
was stressed in my pants pocket. I bought looser pants and then lost those 20
pounds and haven't had it happen again

~~~
jschwartzi
"Apple advises customers to lose at least 20 pounds before reporting any
issues."

~~~
intoverflow2
Seen as its a Californian company and most of the execs are very cargo pants-
ish I also don't think they're designing products taking into account people
in other parts of the world like to wear smarter skinnier fitting clothes.

~~~
mwfunk
Skinny jeans (comically, impractically skinny jeans even, IMO) are extremely
common in California. Possibly even the norm, if there is a norm.

~~~
maxerickson
Isn't it largely an age thing? They started to catch on about 15 years ago so
people under about 35 favor them.

(of course the preferences above and below that age aren't universal, but I
think that's a reasonable dividing line.)

------
gerbilly
>“But the fact remains—compared to earlier iPhone models, the iPhone 6/6+ is
kind of a ‘bendy’ phone. Its slim form factor and larger surface area subject
the logic board within the phone to mechanical flexion pressure that no other
iPhone has had to deal with[...]”

Thank god they are rumoured to be making phones even slimmer then, _and_
getting rid of the headphone jack as well!

Apple seems to be putting form ahead of function these days.

~~~
xedarius
These days??? How quick we forget the iPhone 4 that didn't work as a phone
when held due to shielding issues.

~~~
mhb
And for how long have they been making the guaranteed-to-fail power adapters
with no strain reliefs?

~~~
thr0w__4w4y
While I totally understand what you're saying and agree with you, I've had 2
of the 85W Mac power adapters replaced out of warranty (2012 rMBP). I'm a
"road warrior", travel around 250k miles / year, probably pack / unpack my
computer 4-8 times per day, and I'm good about winding/unwinding the power
cord, but it's just not designed for that kind of wear & tear.

I think I've gotten replacements because I've been able to show the electrical
arcing that takes place (for anyone reading this who doesn't know what
electrical arcing is, look it up). Between the nice spark, the sound and
especially the smell, employees are pretty damn quick to replace the part. (I
did have an employee initially try to just replace part of it, and when I
showed him how the problem remained, I just walked over and grabbed a new one
off the shelf and told him "I'll just take this." He scanned it and off I
went.)

FWIW, the problem I'm talking about is the little 2-prong AC adapter that
slides on to the main power "brick". On an 85W model at least, all that weight
is borne and supported by the connection, and the torque (or maybe I should be
using a term like "lever" or "moment", I don't recall my physics very well) is
too much over time.

Last comment - generally I just take Shoe Goo and goop it over the weak strain
relief where the cord emerges from the brick. Sure, I don't look cool, but
that part of the power supply doesn't fail.

------
tyfon
"but said Apple doesn’t recognize it as an issue"

Oh, I am so glad we have laws in my country to prevent asshole companies from
doing things like this. Goods that is "expected to last long" has a five year
mandatory warranty here and mobiles are included. The rest has two years. It
doesn't matter if they recognize it as an issue, the phone is broken period.

~~~
hkjgkjy
While all us non-americans can gloat about what great consumer protection laws
we have (and I'm very happy about them as a consumer!) it's not for no reason
that all cool stuff is made by americans. They have the state of Delaware, and
they have the government who prioritize business before social issues.
Correlated (and if you ask me, causative (is that a word?)) is that most
impressive companies and products are invented by Americans.

~~~
susan_hall
You might be interested in a book called The European Revenge, written in 1973
by two writers from the Economist magazine. It made the argument that some day
in the near future, European auto makers, such as Mercedes Benz and BMW, would
be able to make automobiles that were as good as American automobiles.

And they were correct. Mercedes Benz and BMW did eventually catch up to the
Americans. Nowadays, many people would argue that Mercedes Benz and BMW
represent a level of quality that is much higher than what you can get from
American automobiles.

If Europe hasn't yet caught up to the USA in consumer electronics, perhaps
that is because Europe hasn't yet made the concerted effort to catch up.

~~~
Aloha
I'd argue that as far back as the 30's European manufacturers were making cars
every bit as good as those made in America.

That said, they were and are made to a different design ethos - American cars
have never been designed for balanced performance like German cars have, they
instead have been designed for comfort and trouble-free operation (meaning
next to no maintenance). America long made the only car in the world that
could go 100,000 miles with nothing but fluid changes, and other wear items.
No European car can really do that, all of the German makes have a pretty
aggressive preventative maintenance schedule.

Japan to an extent does build cars to the american ethos - they build to the
American ethos, but localized to the Japanese market to a greater or lesser
extent -but then again they were taught car building by the Americans after
WWII - which is I think why Japanese cars have been so successful in the
American market.

------
y04nn
Note that in Europe, whatever Apple says, you have a 2 years warranty for this
kind of problem. Also, do the chip really need a replacement, or a simple
reflow would work?

~~~
pluma
I'm not even sure how they would try to argue against it.

"Yes, the phone developed a fault under typical use within the warranty period
and yes, a lot of other customers are having the same problem, but" ...?

Apple devices are luxury goods sold at a high premium. You expect that stuff
to withstand _at least_ the same everyday handling as their competitors'
products in the same market segment.

~~~
CaptSpify
Just because something is obvious doesn't mean they won't try to argue against
it. Look at the "holding the phone wrong" debacle

------
grej
I actually had this issue show up on an iPhone6 right after the warranty
period expired. I had phone support multiple times and took it in two
different Apple Stores and they acted like they'd never seen the issue before.
They eventually gave up (after a myriad of other fixes they had us try that
didn't work) and said we'd have to get a new phone.

Luckily, we had insurance on it, but it was still a $99 deductible. It's very
frustrating to learn that this problem is quite a lot more common than they
let on.

~~~
robg
Likely affects every 6+ so they are trying to get by without a recall unless
there's some user handling that's the cause. Luckily in Apple store my swap
was under warranty and they tried to run tests, but didn't seem successful so
they are largely trusting customers. First swap took about 30 mins, second
took 15 mins. They are clearly aware it could affect some phones, but they
didn't come right out and say it. They just acted as if they've heard the
problem many times before.

------
lukeholder
I had this same issue with my iPhone 6 Plus screen not responding to touch as
this article explains. Took it into Apple in Perth City (Western Australia)
and they replaced the iPhone on the spot with a brand new refurbished. This
article leads with a story about apple denying it to a customer, but I had my
issue resolved within 25 minutes including running a last minute icloud
backup. Apples legendary support is real.

~~~
pluma
Wait. The device was within warranty and they gave you a "refurbished" (i.e.
not new) iPhone as replacement?

I'm so glad this is blatantly illegal in various countries. They sold you a
faulty brand new product, so they must give you a brand new replacement if
they can't fix the defect on the device they sold you.

This is akin to telling the waiter there's a hair in your soup and getting a
new soup that was returned by another customer but has since been re-heated
and de-haired.

------
thecosas
Update on the first article: [http://ifixit.org/blog/8343/touch-disease-isnt-
going-away/](http://ifixit.org/blog/8343/touch-disease-isnt-going-away/)

------
givinguflac
I agree it sucks they aren't just covering it for people. However, I have a
launch 6+ that I've beat the crap out of and sat on tons of times. It has not
bent even a little and I'm a big person. I've also had no touch screen issues.
Obviously YMMV but I've literally stepped on the thing by accident, dropped it
down a pile of rocks at the beach, and other unintended abuse with no issues
at all.

------
chris_wot
This is going to cost Apple a _lot_ of money in Australia. The average length
of a phone contract here is about two years, and guess what? Courts have ruled
that under the Australian Consumer Competition Law that's pretty much what is
considered a reasonable timeframe for a phone to last. And Apple are scare
shitless of defying them lest they but hit with another record fine by the
ACCC.

------
Animats
This is inept design. If Apple wants to make devices so thin that they flex,
they have to make them more rigid where necessary and allow for more flexing.
There are true flexible PCBs, ones with parts on them, not just wiring
harnesses.[1]

This isn't the first product where Apple has had this problem. It's
embarrassing, or ought to be.

(I don't have this problem; I own a Cat phone (yes, Caterpillar Tractor) which
can be run over by a truck [2][3] and still work.)

[1] [http://www.tendtronic.com/Flexible-
PCB](http://www.tendtronic.com/Flexible-PCB) [2]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xaq3pduPv4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xaq3pduPv4)
[3] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVPku-
xItv8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVPku-xItv8)

------
tempodox
They will say, “don't hold it that way” as long as we let them. A class action
suit sounds reasonable.

Apple clearly have to work on their ability to defeat the laws of Physics
before their devices become fully magical.

------
akerro
Have there been any iPhone without "design defect"? Does any one think "design
defect" is not made by accident since Apple fights everyone who tried to fix
their iPhone on their own?

~~~
mikeash
The 4 had the "you're holding it wrong" antenna. The 6+ is too bendy. What
else has there been?

~~~
RKearney
Didn't the camera lens on the 5 or 5S cause purple lens flares to appear in
photos?

I love my iPhone, just trying to answer your question.

~~~
mikeash
Looks like! [http://www.cultofmac.com/193769/purple-lens-flare-problem-
oc...](http://www.cultofmac.com/193769/purple-lens-flare-problem-occurs-
because-youre-holding-your-iphone-5-wrong-apple-says/)

Don't know how I missed that one, maybe because it's not as serious, but I'd
say it still counts.

I like my iPhone too, but I am curious what other problems are out there.
Seems like they've been pretty solid for the most part, but I say that out of
potential cluelessness, not defensiveness.

------
Joky
"Over time, as the phone flexes or twists slightly during normal use"

I don't flex or twist my phone, I wonder what is "normal use"...

~~~
SlashmanX
Carrying it in your jeans' pocket?

~~~
Joky
Front pocket all the time. It'd hurt if I was flexing it there...

------
thespace123
Wow, didn't know this was widespread! Thanks for the tip! Anyway I turn mine
on and off with the left button until it goes away. Hope that little tip helps
and I hope the issue doesn't get worse

------
SEJeff
FWIW, this exact same thing happened to my wife's iPhone 6+. She took it in
and told the tech the problem. He didn't even look at the phone and took her
word for it. She got a new phone that day.

------
packetized
Apple definitely recognizes this as an issue, because I've had three 6+s
replaced under warranty (not AppleCare) for this issue in the past six months.

~~~
devopsproject
key word: under warranty

Those who expect to use their iPhones more than 12 months are getting shafted

~~~
packetized
Yet, it took nearly 18 months for this to manifest itself before I replaced it
for the first time in April - again, under warranty.

------
intoverflow2
This really has been one of the poorest Apple designs in a long time. Can't
believe it's likely to stick around for another year.

------
hourislate
It seems one of the solutions to this problem is not sticking your iphone into
a back pocket of your skinny jeans.

I constantly see girls sticking an iphone into the back pocket of their pants
that are so tight you wonder how they even got it in there. Then they sit down
with the damn phone still in there. I am surprised it doesn't snap in half.

I typically carry my phone or keep it in my front pocket removing it before I
sit down in fear of bending it.

It's not a wallet, it's a delicate piece of electronics that requires care in
handling.

------
mangeletti
I wonder why this is being flagged (moved like 15 positions down in 3
minutes).

@dang - is worth looking into whether there is a pattern to the flagging of
this post (i.e., IP addresses from a certain company in Cupertino, pattern of
other negative Apple PR being flagged by the same users, etc.)?

------
jokoon
I recently bought a 80 euros Android, 5.5", quad core, 1gb ram, real GPS, 8gb
space, 1280 horizontal resolution. I can break 5 of those and still have more
money than if i bought an apple equivalent.

I'm posting this on a 60 euros android i bought 2 years ago.

~~~
usaphp
What point are you trying to make? My friend just bought a $900 android phone
which has been recalled a day after he bought it...

~~~
jokoon
I'm really skeptical about justifying such price. It is literally 10 times
more expensive, and I'm curious if the phone is really 10 times better, or if
there are power users who really get something out of paying that much more.

I mean the technologies inside it are the same, the specs are higher, sure,
but I don't think it's worth that much. That goes for the price of the latest,
top notch CPU or GPUs. 1 year or 2 years later, the price has dropped
significantly. So either it's cutting edge patents, or that there are many
people ready to pay for a phone that won't the latest one in 6 months.

The point I'm trying to make? Like for everything, top of the line products
exist, and just like you said, those are not shielded from defects, despite
their price. Price is not synonym of quality, performance of durability. 90%
of the stuff you find in an expensive phone are the same.

My point is that despite the price of the iPhone, it's not really worth its
price.

------
pmarreck
Happened to mine.

I got a free swap to a 6S+.

------
curiousgal
Apple think 5-year-old computers are for suckers so why wouldn't they
systematically make their phones last shortly.

------
ebbv
This is pretty breathless reporting for iFixit. We can all draw whatever
conclusions we want based on anecdotes. For example, I know a lot of people
who have iPhone 6 and 6S phones and none of them have had this problem.

But let's look at some numbers; the article mentions that all of these
repairers see "several a week." Let's round up and say that's 4 a week, or 208
per year per repair shop. They only mention a few repair shops in the article,
but lets say as part of the research they actually talked to 100 repair shops.
That brings us to 20,800 iPhones having this problem per year. But of course,
not everyone takes their phone to a repair shop when it has a problem like
this. Let's be pessimistic and say that only 20% of people who have this
problem get it repaired, and 80% throw it away. That's 104,000 iPhones having
this problem per year.

It's unclear to me from the article if this is affecting only iPhone 6 or also
6S, I'll assume both. Apple sold over 13 million iPhone 6S and 6S Plus in its
opening weekend alone. Just from opening weekend numbers 104,000 phones with
this problem is less than 1%, let alone whatever the total number of units
sold over the last two years has been.

I have no doubt this is an annoying and frustrating problem for the people
that encounter it, but try to have some perspective.

~~~
kalleboo
> Let's be pessimistic and say that only 20% of people who have this problem
> get it repaired

20% of people taking their phone to a third-party repair shop sounds very
high. I'd say a vast majority would take their phone to Apple, who say it
can't be fixed and to buy a new phone.

~~~
alanh
No, because the 3rd-party shops are much, much cheaper than Apple's, and also
more widely distributed. (Good luck finding an Apple store in or near a small
town.)

~~~
enraged_camel
Widely distributed sure, but it sounds like Apple is quietly handling this
issue by providing the affected customers with refurbished phones at no
charge.

