
Announcing the Surface 3 - JoelSutherland
http://blog.surface.com/2015/03/announcing-surface-3
======
Someone1234
I own a Surface Pro 3, and when I first got it I'd describe the experience as
just mediocre. However Microsoft has been aggressively updating the software
as has Intel, and as a result of those effects the SP3 has really stepped up
and is now quite a good little tablet/ultrabook combo.

I only have two remaining concerns with the SP3: My i5 version continues to
get extremely hot near the middle of the device (e.g. when gaming or using a
lot of CPU, like BitTorrent). Worryingly hot in fact. And the Magsafe like
connector fails right near the magnet (the wire un-twirls), see Amazon's
reviews of the power supply for examples and photos.

I think this new 10.1" could be interesting form-factor for this device and a
top end Atom CPU really distinguishes it from the SP3. The naming is getting a
little confusing, I checked the posting date to make sure this wasn't an old
announcement for the SP3. Surface 3, Surface Pro 3, Surface 2 RT, uhh...

PS - Does anyone else keep seeing a completely white screen when visiting
Microsoft's web-sites. It goes completely white for like 5 seconds and only
then does any content load. I am using Chrome retail latest.

~~~
danieldk
_Surface 3, Surface Pro 3, Surface 2 RT, uhh..._

Well, at least it is better than before, when people bought a Surface tablet
expecting it to run regular x86 desktop applications, because Windows. Having
nearly the same name (Surface RT vs. Surface Pro) didn't really help.

~~~
martijn_himself
Microsoft has taken a leaf out of Apple's book and simplified product lines
and names, and are up front about availability and configurations. Other PC
and laptop manufacturers seem to go out of their way to make things as
confusing for the consumer as possible. I was briefly contemplating getting
the Asus Zenbook UX305 but it is available in different configurations in
(different) global markets, with the European market seemingly getting a very
raw deal in terms of RAM and SSD size. As always it is unclear where I should
buy them (obligatory nonfunctioning map with resellers on their website) and
when they are available. They also have way too many different models
available. I swear I will never buy anything again from manufacturers that do
this.

~~~
stinkytaco
I feel like Apple's fallen of the wagon on this one, however. Look at the iPad
line. From what I can tell there are at least 6 different models and all of
those are available in different storage capacities and with different
connectivity options. Additionally, there are 3 different iPhone models. If
you're a consumer walking into Best Buy for an iPad, I can definitely see you
getting a raw deal if you don't already know what you want.

~~~
npunt
I respectfully disagree, there's only two raw deals I see with your example:
buying a 16GB model, and going to Best Buy.

There were always 6 SKUs for any given region (3 size options and 2
connectivity), and now there are 3 colors, and the iPad Mini form factor.
That's a lot when you add it all up analytically, but that's not how consumers
experience it -- they're not presented with 36 different iPads and asked to
figure it out.

The consumer experience hasn't fundamentally changed since the original iPad,
because each option is understandable by the user rather than buried under a
confusing set of names [1]. iPads with cell radios are really only for people
who already know what it is and want it, so that choice point is reduced. The
form factor (iPad or iPad mini) is something the consumer can hold in their
hands and figure out, as is color. Those are tangible, immediate, human
choices.

RAW DEAL #1: Storage, and specifically the 16GB model, is the biggest issue
with iOS products because later you'll find you can't download many apps or
have too many photos before storage fills up. Bad user experience. See past
iOS upgrades for outrage.

> if you don't already know what you want

Apple has invested _huge_ amounts in iPad's branding and awareness, that
translates to consumers understanding more and walking in having at least a
vague understanding of which form factor and color they would like, with a
visit being more of a confirmation of the choice. Note that Apple's other
branding reinforces this, by sharing color across iPad, iPhone, and now
MacBook, meaning more possibility for consumers to come in closer to having
made a choice. Same with storage capacity if they evaluated iPhones. They also
don't name it something different each time they launch a new one, they reuse
the name [2]. The brand value/awareness of 'iPad' alone is probably 100x+ that
of Asus or Surface. Brand awareness persists between products, so with 800m
iOS devices out there, each SKU represents maybe 20m iOS devices worth of
brand recognition that precedes it [3].

RAW DEAL #2: Walking into Best Buy -> raw deal. For. sure.

There's a reason Apple built stores - its to control the experience and reduce
choice anxiety through consistent messaging, better presentation of products,
positive sales experience, few choices, etc. Best Buy shits that away and you
wind up in a chemical-smelling store filled with crappy products that subtly
increases paradox of choice, talking to a spikey hair drone that doesn't
understand the product, forcing comparison to unlike products, putting
pressure on you to buy the replacement plan or accessories or shit you don't
need, with flashing images from a wall of TVs nearby sucking your attention
away from your purchase decision like the TV with a skateboarding video on at
the bar you're at with friends that keeps pulling you away from the
conversation you were just having. Ugh. Best Buy.

[1] Apple made this mistake in the 90s with the Performa brand, introducing
too many models causing consumer confusion
([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_Performa](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_Performa)).
Thus, iPad is iPad, and specs do not play into the name of the product the
user buys. Most other competitors such as aforementioned Asus Zenbook UX305
_just don 't get it_.

[2] Because people think in years, not obscure model numbers ('oh thats the
iPad from two years ago' vs 'oh thats the Zenbook umm... UX31A? UX42VS?').

[3] Yeah this is a super janky way of representing brand awareness, its just
to illustrate how much more carrying capacity the brand has for variations
relative to others. Marketing budget might be another way, except that doesn't
account for people's actual purchases and their sharing with friends, plus the
ridiculously valuable free marketing you get from the media talking about the
device. Hence, the big unveil strategy.

~~~
freehunter
RE: The Zenbook

How do companies not get this? Don't call it the Zenbook [Impossible Number].
Call it the damn Zenbook and be done with it. No one cares that its part of
the UX300 line, because UX300 means nothing, and you're only going to have
three computers in the UX line anyway before you discontinue it.

But you know why they do that? Price matching. They can sell a SKU on Amazon
for $700 and sell the exact same computer at Best Buy for $750. When you try
to price match with Best Buy, oh whoops you're buying the Zenbook UX305-XYZ,
that's the Zenbook UX305-ABC. Same hardware? Doesn't matter, different SKU, no
price match.

~~~
bandrami
What's particularly galling is when the UX305-XYZ has a different chipset or
wireless controller or whatever than the UX305-ABC. You try the XYZ and think,
"great! It's got Intel wireless, so I can run BSD without a problem", then you
get the ABC and, no, it's on Broadcom for that sub-line.

------
geerlingguy
Actual product page: [http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en-
us/products/surface-3](http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en-
us/products/surface-3)

And buy now page with tech specs:
[http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/productI...](http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/productID.314885500#buy-
product)

Looks like $499 for 64GB storage and 2GB RAM, $599 for 128GB storage and 4GB
of RAM (WiFi models; 4G LTE model pricing wasn't showing for me).

~~~
Someone1234
That 2 GB, 64 GB model just looks painful to use. I've seen a lot of Windows
installs use up more than 64 GB, in particular as WinSXS grows as more updates
are installed (thus more duplicate DLLs are stored). If anyone asked me, I'd
describe 128 GB as the "minimum" storage needed for Windows. And even then you
aren't storing much if any user data on it.

4 GB is the minimum I'd run anything newer than Windows XP on. The SSD's speed
might be able to "save" the 2 GB from being completely unusable, but it is
still going to be damn slow with the amount of paging that's going to occur.

Honestly, I get that Microsoft wants to hit that magical $500 figure, but that
device is going to give a really poor use experience in my opinion.

~~~
Vexs
I really can't even use a computer that's less than 4 gb these days,
especially once chrome gets it's grubby hands all over my RAM. Just running
baseline I find that most windows systems take up about two GB of RAM, and
after you load up chrome, word, whatever; it hits the 4GB+ range. I mean,
we're starting to see phones with 2GB of ram, it's completely unacceptable for
a modern tablet.

~~~
tjoff
8 GB is absolute bare minimum in 2015 (I'd say 2012 but the world seems to
disagree). I'd be very hesitant buying something today that didn't have 16 GB.
Unfortunately that is quite hard to come by in the ultrabook range.

But 2 GB? And maximum 4 ? Just kills me inside. Way to ruin the device.

~~~
WorldWideWayne
Minimum for doing what?

My home workstation has 32GB and I can remote into that anytime I want from
every device that I own, so I tend to lean on that.

~~~
tjoff
Surfing the web or doing any form of multitasking.

But of course, the sad reality is that the only reason there is a 2 GB version
is so that they can have a ridiculous premium for the 4 GB version yet still
lure customers with the low starting price point.

I wonder if, when the market has matured enough, that there will be honest
companies making products that tries to make good _mainstream_ products rather
than trying to get away with whatever they can. There is no reason what so
ever that there should be any high-end smartphone available for purchase with
less than 64 GB of storage. But now we have 16 GB and, for a $100 GB premium
you get, gasp, 32 GB!

Phone storage has not gone up, in many cases down, in the last five years...
And that's like 120 years in the tech world.

But hey, 2 GB of ram is certainly enough for the 5 min demo you get in the
store...

~~~
luddypants
$100 more for 2x RAM and storage, that doesn't seem like a "ridiculous
premium". Unless you mean ridiculous in some other way than the actual dollar
amount.

~~~
e12e
Considering that $100 easily buys you an 8GB so-dimm _or_ an 80 GB intel m.2
ssd at retail prices, I think it is pretty steep for an increase of 2GB of ram
and 32GB [ed: whops, 64GB, but still] of storage...

------
forgotAgain
It's just sleazy that all of their advertising is centered on how the keyboard
differentiates the device from other tablets and then the keyboard isn't
included in the base price.

~~~
Someone1234
I strongly agree with this.

The keyboard is great. Having a choice of keyboards is also great. However
Microsoft makes the keyboard a core part of this device (both literally, and
in adverts) so to me there should be no scenario where it doesn't ship with
one.

They should just set the price at $599 and include the keyboard. At least it
is an "out the door" price then, not $500 with a hidden $100 tack-on.

~~~
joshuapants
I believe the idea behind not including it is that you can choose the color of
your keyboard without them having to anticipate demand for certain colors and
package them together. I don't think that's a very good rationalization (just
give them an option for keyboard color and ship a second box!), however.

~~~
seunosewa
Nobody needs colored keyboards. The keyboard color should just match the
device it's made for.

~~~
joshuapants
I'm kind of dumbfounded by this. People like personalized goods, this is no
different from picking a colored iPad case or wanting your car in some color
other than Ford Black.

------
melling
Wish they could have gone with the new USB standard. These form factors would
really benefit from it.

[http://www.anandtech.com/show/8377/usb-typec-connector-
speci...](http://www.anandtech.com/show/8377/usb-typec-connector-
specifications-finalized)

~~~
yAak
I agree, if only because I want adoption of that new connector type to spread
quickly.

But given that it only has one USB port, I'm not surprised that Microsoft
chose not to ship something that would basically require an adapter.

I imagine they are shaving pennies to keep cost down without giving up
quality, but I wonder what the added cost would be to have two USB ports? (And
how much extra the new USB parts would cost?)

~~~
Someone
I would think having two USB-C connectors poses a problem.

If you allow charging over only one of the connectors, customers will find
that highly confusing.

If you allow charging the device over both, you have to be prepared for the
case where people plug in two power sources (yes, some users will do that, if
you give them half a chance).

I think your best bet would be to go for #2. I think that requires software
(or maybe hardware) that reliably handles the 'two power sources' problem. I
wouldn't run that on the main OS and CPU, so you need something else, maybe a
single chip that drives two USB type C connectors. I guess those may not yet
exist.

(That's quite loose thinking, so it may be hugely incorrect. Educate me)

~~~
CamperBob2
It wouldn't be much of a challenge at all to support two power sources, or at
least to keep them from doing any harm. Couple of diode-connected MOSFETs,
maybe a penny each at the scales we're talking about.

------
ykl
Wow, at that price point and feature set, I think Microsoft finally has
something that can plausibly be considered an iPad-killer.

~~~
lostgame
When I can actually download an MP3 from my browser and open it on my iPad
I'll consider using it as an actual thing again.

Until then? It's not a computer. This is.

~~~
freehunter
Kind of off topic, but related: I recently bought an audio book from Humble
Bundle and have been trying to figure out how to put it on my iPhone.I don't
listen to audio books at home, only in the car or while I'm walking.

Anyone know how to easily download an audiobook from Humble Bundle and put it
on an iPhone to listen to later?

~~~
M4v3R
As others said - canonical way is to use iTunes.

Another way is to use app like GoodReader, which has a file system of its own,
you can create folders, and you can download files from websites/URLs to them.
GoodReader can not only store and organize your files, but it also opens all
the popular formats in the app (PDFs, images, MP3s, etc.).

~~~
walterbell
GoodReader can also sync files via an iOS web server, and open-standard SSH
(sftp) and WebDAV, not just the usual cloud storage vendors.

------
thoughtsimple
The Atom CPU in the Surface 3 doesn't seem competitive with the A8X in the
iPad Air 2. Geekbench results:

    
    
      Uploaded	Model			Processor		Frequency	Cores	Platform	Single-Core Score	Multi-Core Score
      Feb 21, 2015	Intel CHERRYVIEW	Intel Atom x7-Z8700	1601		4	Windows 32-bit		984		3210
      Feb 13, 2015	Intel CHERRYVIEW	Intel Atom x7-Z8700	1601		4	Windows 64-bit		990		3451
    
      Uploaded	Model			Processor		Frequency	Cores	Platform	Single-Core Score	Multi-Core Score
      Jan 27, 2015	iPad Air 2		Apple A8X		1500		3	iOS 64-bit		1814		4665

------
artmageddon
I'm definitely going to keep my eye on this. My iPad 3(30-pin connector) is
still going strong for me, but I'm highly considering this when it's released.
The fact that it'll run Windows 10 is definitely exciting too, though I wonder
if it will get bogged down upon the arrival of Windows 10 as certain iOS
devices have for certain iOS releases. Glad to see Microsoft is making strides
in this space.

------
mikelat
I was honestly hoping they'd give up on the whole touchscreen + mouse/keyboard
interface integration, this announcement pretty much confirms they're in it
for the long haul. Both inputs are vastly different so their UIs are full of
compromises and over-sized controls.

~~~
BinaryIdiot
Have you tried Windows 8.1 on a touch screen (especially a tablet)? I find
Windows 8.1 awkward to use on a desktop or non-touchscreen computer but for a
touchscreen? I absolutely LOVE the interface for launching applications. I'm
actually kind of sad it's all going away in favor of something closer to the
desktop in Windows 10; I would have liked the Windows 8.1 style to stay when
in a touchscreen or tablet mode.

~~~
ehaughee
My understanding is that tablet devices will have some defaults to keep them
closer to 8.1 than the desktop-friendly changes made for Win10. I am currently
running Win10 and can confirm you are able to set the default behavior of the
start menu to the 8.1 screen or Win7 menu behavior. Not sure if that addresses
all of your concerns but it does seem like Microsoft understands at least some
people enjoyed the start screen.

~~~
BinaryIdiot
Ah that's good; I installed and tried out Windows 10 a few weeks ago on my
tablet / convertible and I didn't see any way to bring a Windows 8.1 like menu
back only the Windows 10 start menu. I'll have to look into it, thanks!

~~~
numo16
If you swipe from the right side of the screen to bring up the notification
center, you'll see a "Tablet Mode" button on the bottom that makes the OS more
tablet friendly.

------
wz1000
Does anybody have experience of running Linux on previous Surface devices?

~~~
AlbertoGP
Yes, I've been using a Surface Pro 3 as my primary computer since last year,
with Ubuntu (dual boot with Windows, secure boot, no problems). It works well
enough after I made my own kernel patch to have both multi-touch trackpad and
keyboard with the type cover. There are patches for the cameras too but I
haven't used them yet. Wireless is iffy but it works every time if I connect
manually instead of letting it connect automatically.

Touch works surprisingly well, but multitouch support in Ubuntu is quite
primitive still. The pen works allright but without pressure sensitivity.

Coming from a ThinkPad W500 I'm very happy with it but it still has rough
edges, like the lack of suspend mode. I do a full shutdown instead.

~~~
e12e
> like the lack of suspend mode.

Huh? Some UEFI trickiness, or some kind of quirky intel cpu? Do you mean that
it doesn't work for Ubuntu, or that there's no way to get s2disk/s2ram to work
on the thing with a Linux kernel?

~~~
AlbertoGP
It does not have S3 power mode, that is no suspend to RAM but only Microsoft
Connected Standby (AKA Intel IntantGo) which is how it works in Windows 8.1,
although hybernate (suspend to disk) has been reported as working in Linux.

I starting setting hybernate up but I needed it encrypted and it seemed like
too much trouble; AFAIK there is no special difficulty in this machine.

Another thing I forgot to mention and I actually find quite annoying is the
volume buttons, which don't work for now. There was some tentative patch /
module when I last tried last Christmas but it did not work at all.

~~~
e12e
> It does not have S3 power mode, that is no suspend to RAM but only Microsoft
> Connected Standby (AKA Intel IntantGo)

Ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying. Another thing to look for if/when buying new
hardware then (lack of s3/and or instantGo support arriving in Linux)

> I starting setting hybernate up but I needed it encrypted and it seemed like
> too much trouble

Not sure what you mean here. You'll need the encryption key on startup, of
course (but you need that on a full boot anyway). Perhaps look into putting
the/a copy of the key on an usb stick?

Unless Ubuntu has been been messing with the cryptsetup/luks boot/initrd-magic
as found in Debian, it should "just work".

Works fine on my Thinkpad -- I generally just do "s2disk" from the command-
line (I did look into getting S3+S1 to work -- that is first s2ram and disk,
then after a while turn off, awakening from disk rather than ram -- that was a
bit more of a hassle to get working -- and in the end I rarely need it
anyway).

Fwiw I use the "hibernate" package along with a fully encrypted (except /boot)
system, using cryptsetup/luks.

[edit: Tangentially related:

[http://www.oxygenimpaired.com/ubuntu-with-grub2-luks-
encrypt...](http://www.oxygenimpaired.com/ubuntu-with-grub2-luks-encrypted-
lvm-root-hidden-usb-keyfile)

(note the bit about preparing the usb key with the encryption key is in a
linked post)

I'm not sure I see much value in having the key be some random part of a
randomzied usb stick... but it mentions most of the things required to mount
encrypted partitions -- and the keyscript-option.

Also, be wary of Dragons when systemd comes around:

[https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-
bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=618862](https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-
bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=618862) ]

------
kyllo
Does it overheat? Does it have a fan? Overheating and fan noise are a couple
of the biggest complaints I heard about the Surface Pro 3.

~~~
sz4kerto
Probably not/no, it doesn't. It has an Atom X7 with 2W SDP, while the least
powerful Surface Pro 3 has 6W SDP, the i5 and i7 versions are somewhere closer
to 10W.

~~~
slantyyz
When my Atom-based Vivotab Note runs at 100% CPU, it feels mildly warm. Which
is nothing compared to when my Surface Pro 1 gets hot.

------
sixothree
I hate to say it but I'm dreading whatever awful television commercials
they'll start putting out. They really do make it embarrassing to own a
Surface Pro 3.

~~~
Someone1234
I don't know about you but all I do all day is constantly click the keyboard
on and off, and open/close the kick stand... Just over and over again, like I
am a QA robot...

But seriously, Microsoft has some of the worst advertising period. I cannot
think of a major company which is worse than Microsoft at advertising in
general.

~~~
dv35z
Are there any more cringe-worthy than Songsmith? -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oGFogwcx-E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oGFogwcx-E)

~~~
hansjorg
Maybe I'm getting old, but that wasn't as cringey as I remember it.

And the program actually seems pretty cool and hi-tech. Crank up the jazz-
slider!

------
jonknee
In the video, having the price starting at $799 and then dropping down to $499
was clever. Seems like a great deal.

------
ChicagoDave
I had an ASUS tablet a year ago (sold it to my brother who loves it). I do a
lot of coffeehouse meetups with fellow entrepreneurs and one thing I loved
about the ASUS was the pen and being able to draw pictures easily in OneNote.

Having played with the Surface Pro 3 tablet at BestBuy a few times, it's a
dream to use. I've wanted a Surface Pro 3, but the price is prohibitive and I
already have a Yoga Pro 2 and a MacBook Pro. I don't really need a development
laptop, but I want that OneNote pen-drawing capability to communicate.

So the Surface 3 looks about right. I'd need the 4GB model with 128GB and with
the SD slot you should be able to add more. And that pen. That pen is simply a
dream to write with...and I want one.

I just wish they'd make a better (metal) keyboard and include it in the price.

~~~
higherpurpose
> Having played with the Surface Pro 3 tablet at BestBuy a few times, it's a
> dream to use

> So the Surface 3 looks about right.

You realize this has much lower performance, and most likely won't give you
the same experience, right?

~~~
alsocasey
It should manage drawing in OneNote ok, though.

------
robertwalsh0
The type cover seems like a good thing in theory, but in practice feels very
"tacked on." Especially in that you have to find a level surface (no pun
intended) to rest the device on.

~~~
TheTaO
That was the case for the old keyboard covers. The new ones are much better
though.

------
djloche
I am looking forward to the Surface pro 4 announcement. edit: to clarify - I'd
like to buy a surface pro, but it is a tough call knowing they have a yearly
product release cycle.

------
orf
Looks interesting until I see that it's $499 in the US and $945 (£639) in the
UK. Why!

Edit: Was looking at the Surface Pro 3, the standard Surface is only ~$620.
Not too bad I guess.

~~~
MCRed
The UK charges taxes at all different levels of industry. This causes imported
products to be more expensive. Happens to the products in the USA too, but the
overall tax rate is lower.

~~~
Someone1234
Plus in the UK taxes (VAT) is included in the headline price, whereas in the
US taxes are shown during checkout (although, yes, US tax is typically around
5%, as opposed to the UK's 20%).

I did a quick calculation and it seems like the UK is "only" being overcharged
by $21/£15 when you take into account VAT. Which may exist due to exchange
rate shifting and the additional regulatory costs perhaps.

PS - An extra 15% sales tax for free healthcare is a good trade if you ask me.
But each to their own. :)

------
pckspcks
Well, I'm not getting one for three reasons:

1\. The laptop sometimes sits on my lap. The surface keyboard doesn't work as
a laptop.

2\. The resolution is a joke.

3\. There is no sane pen storage. For a pen device, that's dumb. Thinkpads add
a few mm, and have a hole you put it in which stores it securely. There's a
move to move everything out of the device to make it small, but carrying
around 50 gizmos is worse than one slightly bigger gizmo.

~~~
Ezhik
1366x768 is a joke. 1920x1280 is actually a pretty nice resolution, even if
not a very common one.

------
Aissen
So Windows RT is dead ? I'd say good riddance, it was just too closed. I
remember having a family friend buying one of those devices and trying to
install Chrome on it. Well, no luck, WinRT's closed policies won't allow that
(and it's _not_ a technical issue.). But their store policies will still allow
fake "Chrome" apps packaging an IE webview.

~~~
Amezarak
> Well, no luck, WinRT's closed policies won't allow that (and it's not a
> technical issue.).

It's true that Microsoft doesn't allow alternative rendering engines on WinRT,
but it _is_ ARM instead of x86, so there is a technical component; Google
would have to port Chrome.

~~~
Dylan16807
Port?

Android, ChromeOS... Arm is a first-class compile target.

~~~
Amezarak
Yes, in theory. What a blessing it would be if cross-compatibility was always
as simple as "recompile with this as the target."

That doesn't mean you can take Chromium for Windows and recompile targeting
ARM and get something that works on jailbroken WinRT. As best as I can tell
nobody has gotten Chromium running, but they have gotten many other x86
applications running.

People have already tried. There's more work than that involved.

~~~
Dylan16807
Right, there's work involved, but it's taking code that already works on ARM,
and already works on Win32, and making it work with the ARM version of Win32.

Since microsoft disallows that, there's much less incentive to do that work.
But it's not an enormous barrier.

------
emsy
Slightly off-topic, but my wife needs a new PC with pen input (as she needs to
draw a lot). Does anyone with an Atom tablet happen to know if this will work
with Photoshop (it's the heaviest program she'll be using)? If not what are
the alternatives? I heard the Lenovo Yoga 2 is better than the Surface Pro 3
but I'm terribly out of the topic since a while now.

~~~
scienceoflife
I would suggest a touch screen that supports a professional drawing stylus.
There are styluses that can do more features.
[http://www.sensubrush.com/](http://www.sensubrush.com/)

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Well, if you want to go pro, you would have to go with a Wacom Cintiq.

~~~
emsy
That's where we're coming from. She was using my Wacom Cintiq, but she's
mainly comfortable working on the couch and she needs it for elaborate line
drawings, rather than paintings (she works in education). The iPad just didn't
work out because she's uses a special windows software for the whiteboards. So
a Win 8 tablet with a digitizer seems like the perfect match, I'm just
uncertain which tablet to buy.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Check out [http://penny-arcade.com/news/post/2014/05/23/surface-
pro-3](http://penny-arcade.com/news/post/2014/05/23/surface-pro-3), they've
fixed many of the problems gabe pointed out (helps that Lynwood is near
Redmond). I suggest trying one at a store somewhere.

The 10" with an Ntrig might be a better bet because if it is more portable.
Otherwise, not many win tablets still have styluses (especially the Wacom
resistive kinds).

~~~
emsy
Thanks! We already tried it and she liked it so far, but unfortunately, the
tablet had only Paint installed. She doesn't do hardcore art, but the sketches
she draws should have a certain quality (No jiggy edges, which I heard was a
problem when drawing slowly). I think I'll ask for a demo with a sophisticated
drawing app next time I'm in the store. But the linked article gives me hope
that this might be perfect for her work.

~~~
greeneggs
Here's a good test to try in the store. You can do it in OneNote.

Using a business card as a ruler, try to draw a diagonal line, slowly (a few
seconds to cross the card). Unless they have fixed it recently, the Surface
Pro 3 cannot draw straight lines in this way, and they will be quite jagged.

In practice, you might never draw lines in this way, but the same jagged
features will pop up everywhere, especially if you draw fine shapes carefully
(as opposed to large strokes sloppily).

~~~
seanmcdirmid
I really like Adobe's solution for this:

[http://www.adobe.com/products/ink-and-
slide.html](http://www.adobe.com/products/ink-and-slide.html)

We need that at Surface...

------
awalGarg
+1 for lowering the price alone. Even though I don't like Windows much, I
think Surface is quite a nice device for a lot of people.

------
arenaninja
This comes as a complete surprise to me. I had no idea it was coming out, and
I've been generally excited about progress on the Surface.

I wonder if Mike Krahulik will be doing another write up, since his review of
the Surface Pro 3 was immensely thorough.

Can't wait to see it at stores, I think I'll jump in on this one.

EDIT: I also hope they have a video showing Windows 10 on this Surface

------
pervycreeper
With the Chromebook pixel having the same screen ratio, is 3:2 the new 4:3 ?
Any context for this new trend?

------
nabaraz
Why the heck would they only have 2GB Ram? I know they are trying to achieve
that sweet < $500 price range but they could have just externalize the RAM
modules than just soldering directly to the motherboard.

~~~
IanDrake
Because paging with an ssd is pretty fast and these machines aren't meant for
memory intensive apps anyway.

------
doczoidberg
It is to expensive! Here you get the smallest SP3 Pro with i3 core for the
same price tag. It has a bigger screen, more performance, double RAM and a
better kickstand.

------
lmnm
Granted this is anecdotal, but using a colleagues surface pro 2 recently was a
frustrating experience. Keyboard had horrible response time and the device
itself had a lag of a few seconds.

Couldn't see myself using one anytime soon. That being said, I'll give the
Surface 3 a test drive as I don't want to write off a new product based on the
failings of its older siblings.

~~~
huxley
I've got a Surface Pro 2 which I use like an appliance (in my case, a mobile
drawing tablet), it works well except for the alleged trackpad on the keyboard
which is the absolute worst thing about it. Even the key travel I can live
with, but the trackpad is awful.

------
fit2rule
I'll buy one when Linux is a first-class OS on it, and not a moment before.
I'd love to have sexy hardware from Microsoft, running Linux. I don't know why
thats so hard for the marketing-peeps to comprehend .. make it first-class,
and you've got something that might have a chance against the rMBP-using
'elite' ..

------
BinaryIdiot
Overall this looks great but I wish they wouldn't have eschewed the kickstand
from the Surface Pro 3; the kickstand on this thing only have 3 levels versus
the amazing kickstand on the Surface Pro 3.

Honestly that's a complete deal breaker for me (not that I was going to buy
one anyway but if I was in the market I would not bother).

------
seanmcdirmid
With the stylus, this would make a great sketching, note taking device. I
think that is the killer app here.

------
Sealy
Does anyone else see the glaring difference between how Microsoft markets its
products VS how Apple markets their products?

Microsoft: List 101 features. Tell everyone how amazing each new feature is.
Remind everyone that there is a huge array of features. List them out again.

Apple: Take a nice photo. Done.

~~~
symmetricsaurus
Main points from
[http://www.apple.com/macbook/](http://www.apple.com/macbook/):

* Dimensions * Keyboard size * Screen resolution * Trackpad features * Wireless capabilities * No fan * Battery design and battery life * Operating system * Apps ...

Seems like a bunch of features to me.

Can't view Apple's videos since I don't have Quicktime, so I can't compare
there.

Edit: Apple's page is prettier than Microsoft's.

~~~
Sealy
Fair point. What I wanted to get across is that when Apple releases a new
product, I see the picture, and I just want it.

When Microsoft releases a product, it seems like their marketing department
just wants to hammer a list of features into my head which just results in me
not wanting anything.

Any marketer want to give their two cents?

------
arikrak
I'm waiting for PennyArcade to write a post about using this tablet for
drawing...

~~~
wlesieutre
Photoshop is not a program I'd want to run on an Atom x7. It's not an in-order
architecture anymore, but it's still not fast.

------
martijn_himself
I wonder if the Atom x7 SoC combined with 4GB of memory can do a reasonable
enough job at running Visual Studio 2013/2015 on the move. I expect it is a
bit too much to ask.

~~~
freehunter
I've run it on a dual-core Atom 1.6Ghz with 2GB of RAM on an old Thinkpad
Tablet 2. It wasn't fast, but it ran. A quad-core Atom with 2GB of RAM can run
Skyrim, so I would guess it would handle Visual Studio okay as long as you're
not using it to compile a project the size of Windows Vista.

~~~
martijn_himself
I've pretty much decided on getting one (the 4GB RAM version) if it gets
positive reviews. The work I do in Visual Studio is fairly limited- not nearly
the size you are alluding to- and I'm pretty heavy OneNote user which I am
pretty stoked about to try out with the optional pen. If I could play the odd
indie game on it that's even better.

------
hcal
"educational institutions like University of Phoenix"

------
reustle
I would buy this exact device running Ubuntu in a heartbeat.

------
noteloop
Looks like this is the first 14nm Cherry Trail device with its fanless Quad-
core Intel Atom x7-Z8700 processor. Hopefully it will be a great CPU for HTPC
use.

~~~
slantyyz
I'm pretty sure the last generation was good enough for HTPC use, so this one
should be better. Probably not good enough for real-world 4k, but up to 1080p,
yes.

------
raindrop777
Does anyone know if the 256GB SSD is user upgradable to 512GB. The price
difference looks too much?

~~~
JBiserkov
User replaceable? No.

Brave hacker replaceable? Hell YES!

[http://liliputing.com/2015/03/upgrade-a-surface-
pro-3-with-a...](http://liliputing.com/2015/03/upgrade-a-surface-pro-3-with-a-
power-drill.html)

[http://surfacepro3ssdupgrade.blogspot.mx/2015/02/surface-
pro...](http://surfacepro3ssdupgrade.blogspot.mx/2015/02/surface-pro-3-ssd-
upgrade-i7-with-1-tb.html)

------
jason46
Its stated this runs "full windows", wtf does that mean? Can it be joined to a
domain?

~~~
JBiserkov
"full Windows" means it's not the bastard child that was Windows RT

Business users will get a Windows 8.1 Pro.

------
dejv_cz1
I would like to see comparison of Surface 3 and new Macbook... at least
Surface has more ports.

------
vinceyuan
As a iPhone/iPad/MacBook user, I think Surface 3 looks good. R.I.P. Surface
RT.

------
hobarrera
In the spirit of slashdot:

But does it run linux?

------
gcb0
is there any non-marketing comparison to the pro version?

i'm scrolling up and down that page and i can't even answer if it is the same
as pro3 with the crippled OS.

~~~
gcb0
smaller screen. crappy cpu. two smallish storage options. no pen included.

still could not find about SD card and usb ports.

------
bitL
Atom, 2GB RAM, Full HD for $499? No, thanks!

------
serve_yay
I think the way they are arranged is awkward. All the weight is where the
screen is, instead of where the keyboard is. It's disorienting.

------
argimenes
April Fools?

------
chetangole
No USB-C?

------
m0skit0
Most important question is: can I install Linux on it? (Haters gonna downvote)

~~~
Dylan16807
It's x86 so probably? Enjoy your downvotes for being antagonistic, though.

~~~
m0skit0
Yeah, I really had hard time sleeping because thinking of the downvotes...

Linux supports any architecture, that doesn't matter. I'm asking if anyone has
tried or knows about this: Is there a bootlock? What's the shipped BIOS?
Question is legit, this is M$ we're talking about, not precisely known for its
openness. And just for asking, I'm being downvoted and called "antagonistic".
You fanbois are just hilarious. It's called "freedom of choice". Yes, that
actually exist outside your little world where companies decide what you have
to use. I prefer to make my own choices. I might like the hardware design
(which is actually nice, and M$ usually makes nice and functional hardware)
but I don't like Windows. Period. In fact, I'm not even surprised of your
answer and the downvotes, didn't expect otherwise from M$ fanbois ;)

~~~
Dylan16807
Microsoft has a policy of no boot lock on x86, boot lock on arm. They are only
anti-choice in certain situations.

I'm astounded that you can take an issue where microsoft has done something
you agree with and turn it into a persecution complex.

------
mg1982
Bet the optional* keyboard costs like $300 now, though.

*not really optional

~~~
sz4kerto
You'd lose the bet. Keyboard is $129, docking station is $199, pen is $49.

~~~
mg1982
You got me there. My point, as you no doubt know, was that they're advertising
a low headline price and then jacking it up with 'optional' extras that
provide core functionality.

~~~
whoiskevin
Do ipads or other competitors come with keyboards, pens, covers? Seems they
are right in the market then doesn't it?

~~~
27182818284
No, but they also aren't shown on the company's product page with a keyboard
in the photo and "Great pen experience" as a subheader.

[http://www.apple.com/ipad/](http://www.apple.com/ipad/) vs
[http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en-
us/products/surface-3](http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en-
us/products/surface-3)

