

Ask HN: Someone else made a "Pro" version of my app. What can I do about it? - albertogh

Subject pretty much says it all. I have a successful free ad-supported application and yesterday I saw someone had published a paid application using my app name and just appending "Pro" to it. I also own &#60;appname&#62;.com, but the name is a bit generic and I don't have any trademarks related to it.<p>The app is basically a poor rip-off, so I don't think they're going to get any of my users. However, since the "Appname" vs "Appname Pro" is pretty common on the App Store I fear a lot of users might end up buying their app thinking that it's an ad-free version of my app.<p>The app developers have like 20 apps named "&#60;something&#62; Jokes" and from their blog (they have all their apps and submissions listed) I can see they've submitted a lot of apps ripping off other's names. They even got the nerve to submit an app named "FaceBook for iPad". I think this proves that this is not just an unfortunate coincidence and they won't be willing to remove the app if I ask them directly.<p>Has any of you dealt with this situation before? Since I'm not in the US, getting some proper legal advice regarding US law with these issues is going to be very difficult, so any advice is very appreciated.
======
naner
In addition to the other suggestions, send a note to Facebook that you
purchased their "FaceBook for iPad" app (include a link to the app store page)
and are extremely disappointed with the functionality. After Facebook legal
complains to Apple about the app perhaps the submitter will be banned and all
their apps removed or at least their apps will be under much stricter
scrutiny. And a request of your own to remove the "Pro" app may be better
received. Also, contact the other devs who had their apps ripped off and urge
them to complain about this submitter as well.

~~~
diab0lic
This is a great idea. If you can get coax a giant like Facebook into action
you'll improve your chances quite a bit.

~~~
kennywinker
Double agreed. If it doesn't fix your problem, at least you've made their life
difficult. Shouldn't be that hard to get facebook to act.

------
robterrell
Contact Apple, but in a forceful way. Word it as a cease and desist, with a
demand that the other app be removed or renamed, and send it to the App Store
team, as well as Apple legal, and the developers themselves.

Apple passes this stuff on verbatim to the other developer. (I have been on
the receiving end myself.) If it's a mealy-mouthed pretty-please, I'm sure
they'll ignore it, if they're dickish enough to name-squat on your app.

It helps tremendously if you've got a trademark for the app name (even a
pending trademark) you're golden. Or, if there's any other infringement (i.e.
they stole your icon, which is copyright infringement) you're in good shape,
too.

Edited to add: not a lawyer, my legal advice is worthless, etc.

~~~
Symmetry
IANAL and this really only applies to US law anyways, but isn't it a
_registered_ trademark that he doesn't have? That is, I thought trademarks
accrued naturally just like copyright, but that registering them made it much
easier to enforce claims. In this case the violation is clear and egregious
enough that I wouldn't presume he couldn't win a trademark infringement case.

~~~
robterrell
That's true, as I understand it. But if he was claiming a trademark on the
name he'd need to put the "TM" after the name. (Not the R-in-a-cirlce, that's
only for trademarks that have been registered.) But this stuff has lots of
corner cases and I don't pretend to understand it all. More info:
<http://www.uspto.gov/faq/trademarks.jsp#_Toc275426672>

~~~
brlewis
IANAL either, but my understanding is that you have common-law trademark
rights from the time you start using the name in interstate commerce, whether
you add TM or not.

~~~
rayiner
This is correct.

It's easier to enforce a registered trademark, but common law trademark rights
are all based on likelihood of confusion, which is present here.

------
martingordon
For what it's worth, here is information on submitting claims of copyright
infringment to Apple:
<http://www.apple.com/legal/trademark/claimsofcopyright.html>

------
btilly
I am not a lawyer but there is an obvious thing to investigate. Does it look
like they used your code, your icons, etc? If so, then you have a
straightforward copyright infringement case, and under US law you can send
Apple a DMCA notice to get it taken down.

~~~
albertogh
I don't think they copied any of my code nor assets. However, their app does
basically the same as mine, but lacking and lot of features and their is UI
not as polished as mine (the app looks pretty amateur).

------
lazy_b
Take a breath. I develop apps and sell them, and this has happened to me about
half a dozen times. If somebody wants to make a cheap knockoff of your app,
just relax. Theyll be gone in a couple weeks if not days.

If somebody wants to one up you, worry.

------
ibelimb
I'm assuming your application is listed on an app store, so have you tried the
simple approach of emailing the appropriate people and asking for the app to
be removed? I'm sure the TOS prevent this kind of behavior and they would be
glad to assist you.

~~~
albertogh
I probably should have mentioned this in the text. I previously had an issue
somewhat close to this one. Someone published an app named "<appname> \- <some
keywords>" while I already had published "<appname>". I emailed Apple and they
just told me they had let the developer know about it. I never heard from the
developer nor Apple again.

~~~
ibelimb
Ah, the old "You're not our friend so its not our problem". While I do not
have any ideas on how to deal with it outside of emailing them, the least I
would do is make a disclaimer in your app's listing stating clearly that you
are in no way affiliated with this "Pro" version if you haven't already.
Better to save a few of those potential customers then lose them to the person
who ripped you off. As far as getting the listing removed.. I'll leave that up
to the powerful HN mind.

------
objclxt
You say you're not in the US - where are you based? Because if it's Europe you
don't need US legal advice. Your app is being sold to those in the EU by
iTunes Sarl, as is the competing/infringing app. I know this isn't immediately
helpful, but you shouldn't be under the misapprehension you can only enforce
things through the US courts vis a vis the App Store. There is also a similar
Australian iTunes subsidiary.

~~~
albertogh
I'm in Spain. I didn't think that getting their app removed from the EU stores
would make a noticeable difference, since the app is only popular in English-
speaking countries. However, your point really makes sense. I'll be contacting
my lawyer later today just in case.

~~~
robterrell
This can work to your advantage. In my case, a developer in the EU made claims
against an app of mine, and since all of the legal documents arrived in a
foreign language, it cost twice as much to have a lawyer simply evaluate the
claims -- they had to use a partner firm in the originating country to
translate the documents.

The ongoing cost of lawyers made me fold and remove the app from the store. I
still maintain to this day that I did nothing wrong, there was zero
infringement and his claim was 100% legally bogus, but I couldn't afford to
keep the lawyers on top of it.

So, what was bad for me might be good for you. Get a lawyer and have him draft
something really strong in Spanish.

~~~
albertogh
I was under the impression that I was responsible for sending them the
documents in a language that they could understand. This sounds really good.
Many thanks for letting me know!

------
Pewpewarrows
Why not just release your own "Appname Pro", take out the advertisements, and
charge $0.99?

~~~
albertogh
Names are unique in the App Store, so it's too late for that.

~~~
gujk
That is slightly bizarre restriction, but can be worked around by naming the
app "AppName Pro by Developer".

~~~
DuqE
Another work around is to create a pro app and offer in-app purchasing to
upgrade to a pro version, at least your profiting from your existing user-base
and they know they are not paying for this ripped off version without
realising.

------
jk8
Curious, what is the name of the app?

~~~
albertogh
I'd the prefer to not disclose that publicly.

------
andymoe
Unless you have a trademark on the name you will not get any help from Apple
and even then it is going to be an up hill battle so I would concentrate on
making your own app as good as it can be.

------
mcritz
Looks like you could add fraud to any list of legal action.

------
rayiner
Lawyer up and sue for trademark infringement.

~~~
bitsweet
_I don't have any trademarks related to it._

What infringement?

------
albertogh
It looks like I can't edit the submission, so I'll add a comment. First, I
want to thank everybody for your suggestions and let you know that I'm seeing
my lawyer first thing tomorrow morning. I've been collecting evidence for a
while now and I realized their app description has some portions copied from
mine, so I think I got enough to fight back. I'll post an update as soon as
I've got substantial information to share. Again, many thanks!

------
Egregore
It seems you hadn't a pro app because you're outside of US and you can't
publish it on android market. I think google should expand publishing rights
to developers outside of US.

~~~
albertogh
It's the App Store. I didn't publish a Pro version because I preferred to use
IAP to remove the ads rather than publishing a separate binary.

------
gujk
What you describe is impossible. Apple reviews and approves every app in the
store, so abusive apps can not be published.

~~~
joshmlewis
And so I guess the guy just made it all up. Looks like it's case closed, guys.

------
xster
Just tell us the name of the app. We'll do a quick check on your story and
mass review the fake app to death (hopefully it's not too expensive). The 0
stars should set off alarms for would-be downloaders. Simple.

~~~
zalew
so your plan is to mass-buy the fake app. makes sense

