
Netflix will now interrupt series binges with video ads for its other series - downrightmike
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/08/netflix-begins-testing-ads-for-its-own-series-between-binge-season-episodes/
======
unimpressive
I've recently noticed a lot less enthusiasm for Netflix than I used to see. I
suspect that they've run into the problem where it's possible to subtly
degrade your product without immediate consequences. People stop being devoted
to you, but that doesn't show up in numbers. It's a bit like a marriage where
star eyed lovers learn to fall out of love with each other many years before
the divorce. What caused the divorce? A long campaign of subtle harms.

~~~
cageface
I used to feel that Netflix was an amazingly good deal at $10/month. Now I
feel like it's just _barely_ worth that much and if there are many more user
hostile UX changes I might just bail out entirely. So much of their current
interface seems designed mainly to hide the fact that they don't actually have
that much good content.

~~~
MrMember
I canceled my Netflix account about a year ago. Terrible UI changes, steady
removal of great shows and movies (yes, I know this isn't technically their
fault), and price increases made it no longer worth it to me.

~~~
modells
I cancelled and share with family. Their catalog is shit, their apps are anti-
viewer, some of their content is okay but they're turning the customer
experience into repugnant, corporate shit.

------
dreamcompiler
Netflix used to be a neutral pipe, just like Comcast. The trouble with pipes
is that they hate being pipes and they always aspire to being a content
creator. Whenever that happens, they instantly have a conflict of interest and
cease being a decent pipe.

So far my house's plumbing system hasn't tried to get into the beverage
business, but I expect it's only a matter of time.

~~~
EpicEng
>Netflix used to be a neutral pipe

Netflix has never been a "neutral pipe". Their business model is to
curate/acquire/create content that people will pay a monthly fee to watch. How
does that in any way resemble an ISP?

~~~
harperlee
Netflix started business lending you dvds by mail. They were providing all
content they could get their hands on, not curating (except if you call
Blockbuster or any other videoclub a "curator of content", based on the fact
that they did not have any film on existence). So yeah, they were a "neutral
pipe" until they started creating content.

~~~
dragonwriter
> They were providing all content they could get their hands on

No, they weren't. Even Wwith DVDs, they had selection criteria. Though, sure,
until streaming—and until streaming got competitive—breadth was a bigger
selling point than it is now.

~~~
harperlee
Sorry perhaps I was not completely clear. (Part of) my point is that just
having a selection done does not automatically turn your business into
"curation". Early Netflix users used Netflix for the film availability, not
for the film curation. In other words they valued the "positive
existence"/access of the offering much more than the "negative existence" /
curtailing of bad movies (users chose the films, so not so interested in
curation when users also did it).

------
AmVess
_In a statement given to Ars Technica, Netflix described the change as
follows: "We are testing whether surfacing recommendations between episodes
helps members discover stories they will enjoy faster." The reasoning,
Netflix's statement says, comes from its last controversial decision: to add
auto-playing videos, complete with unmuteable audio, while browsing through
Netflix content.

Netflix offered a major rebuttal to at least one Reddit claim, pointing out
that the ads for Netflix content are entirely skippable._

I'm guessing they aren't getting views they want, especially with a lot of
their shows being duds.

The obvious response would be to increase the quality of their programming.
The easy response is to jam their current programming down our throats.

I quit Netflix, and even a _single_ ad about anything is enough to keep me
from ever returning.

Trust me, this is just a start. They know people hate autoplay videos, yet
they added them anyway. They know people hate ads, but they are going to be
using them anyway.

What's next? Product advertising? I don't doubt this. Ad/ad free streaming
packages?

~~~
hndamien
The solution is simple. Stop spending large sums to produce crap. Spend small
sums to produce crap and admit it is crap (Kevin Hart), and there is an
audience for that. Spend large sums on good prior art - eg. rebuild things
that were popular elsewhere and inadvertently died - Arrested Development,
Futurama, Longmire etc. Pay big sums for the artists - Matt Groening
(Disenchanted), Chris Rock, Louis CK, Dave Chappelle (not Kevin Hart).

~~~
Something1234
I think you've been eating memberberries. Futurama should stay dead, it should
not be brought back as a zombie. It should be allowed to rest in peace as the
fantastic show it was.

We need to move forward, but most of the content I've seen on netflix is crap.

~~~
hndamien
I actually agree, I just meant that the bringing back zombie strategy is a
pretty risk free and effective one that can work in some cases.

Maybe not zombies, but premature deaths because they catered to niches that
were too small successfully.

And get the artists to make new works.

~~~
beaconstudios
> Maybe not zombies, but premature deaths because they catered to niches that
> were too small successfully.

Imagine the PR they would attract if they were able to bring back Firefly.
Especially given Nathan Fillion is a big-name actor now.

------
Rotdhizon
Not sure if anyone covered it here yet, but Netflix doesn't take user
feedback. They've stated that they base their decisions on whether or not to
include new features based on how many users click on it. People complained to
hell and back about them putting in auto play videos, but it was included
because so many people clicked on that feature. Same is going for these ads,
they know people don't want them, but they hide behind their click metrics as
an excuse for going forward with it. Many, many people will quit Netflix over
this, I wonder if it will noticeably hurt their profits.

~~~
1123581321
The simpler explanation is that their data show that people end up liking new
things they complained about. It’s not an uncommon story with software
customers. I would be surprised if a feature passes their tests by showing
more usage of Netflix only to lead to cancellations. I am interested in
understanding the potential path to this, though.

------
rryan
Loud swearing doesn't show up on metrics. This drives me insane about Amazon.
My behavior won't change, even though my perception of the brand is going down
the tubes.

Netflix is also horrible about autoplaying trailers with sound. Maybe I went
to netflix.com to check whether something was in the catalog while my spouse
sleeps next to me. You do not have the right to pump sounds through my
speakers until I hit play.

~~~
erichurkman
It at least remembers the 'mute' icon on auto play videos now. That was broken
for a while. Still, it's infuriating.

It opens with a huge header image with a brief sentence or two about the thing
it's showing you. You're three words in reading and the intro text disappears
into a minute-long preview that spoils the show. What the hell?

Or worse, you've loaded your dashboard and are about to click into starting
the show you left off on, only for the hero image/preview to load and shove
the page down three inches. Your click now opens a new, unrelated show. You
frantically click 'back', only to end up on the page prior to netflix.com.
When you re-load Netflix, the show you accidentally clicked is now in the
'continue watching' section — right where your desired show is. !@#^*!)#

------
14
Our house used to have netflix. Then came the different tiers, like pay more
and you can have 4k video or more then one person at a time streaming. I
didn't like the change but I was still able to keep the lower tier and it was
still convenient at that time. Then we had a huge reorganization at work and
though I didn't lose my job my hours were temporarily tanked and I was
desperately running lower and lower on funds to the point where at one point I
had $23 on my prepaid credit card. The same card had just expired and I was
sent a new one with new numbers. Well after a month netflix tries to take a
payment and can't since it is a new card. Then start the emails about needing
a payment or I will lose service. Shortly after they did cut service. I was
all too stressed to even deal with them and just figured, oh well I will be
back once things are better at work and I can afford it. But before that could
happen, I guess they can find out the new card numbers from the bank or
whatever, so after cutting off my service for a month, while I am literally
broke to the point I am unsure about future meals and $23 to my name a netflix
payment came off my card. That was the last straw. I canceled immediately and
will never go back.

~~~
darpa_escapee
That's absolutely insane. I have separate cards for different bills, and had
Netflix done something like this to me, it would have severely messed up some
careful planning.

I'm sorry to hear that it happened to you while you were in a vulnerable
position.

~~~
jonknee
It's a feature not a bug, you signed up for something, didn't cancel and were
billed for it.

~~~
abraham_lincoln
They cut his service for lack of payment, then charged him.

~~~
1123581321
I don’t blame OP for being in a bad situation but Netflix can’t add another
card on their own. That’s preposterous, sorry.

I’m guessing that OP tried to start another free trial and inadvertently paid
because they weren’t eligible. Last I checked, Netflix makes the trial-
ineligible payment screen similar enough to the trial-activation-with-valid-
card screen that this is possible. It’s a bit of a dark pattern. But it would
be national news if they worked with banks to steal new credit card numbers.

~~~
14
I did not try and start a free trial and the story is accurate. I take the
blame, fool me once as they say, as apparently netflix is part of the Visa
Updater program [1] which allowed them to get my new details without me giving
it to them. A learning experience for sure. It is meant to prevent lose of
service when you get a new card. I had never heard of it before so had to
learn of it in a difficult way.

[1]-[https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/download/merchants/visa-
accoun...](https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/download/merchants/visa-account-
updater-product-information-fact-sheet-for-merchants.pdf)

~~~
1123581321
Ah, I did not know about that “feature.” Sorry; I was wrong. I think an email
letting you manually agree to each institution to receive the update would be
much better than silent and automatic here!

------
sjwright
This is currently a "test" feature. You can opt out of tests here:

[https://www.netflix.com/DoNotTest](https://www.netflix.com/DoNotTest)

~~~
skissane
I wish they gave you the ability to opt out of specific tests rather than all
tests across the board. That might actually be a good way for them to get
feedback on which specific tests are upsetting their customers.

------
askaboutit
The tides are turning on Netflix. People just don’t love the product anymore.
I wonder if they’re pivoting for a sale to Disney or they’re just starting to
be too big for their own good.

Either way. I wonder what will replace it.

~~~
stock_toaster
Their UI/UX is /awful/. Probably purposefully bad, to hide how shallow their
back catalog has become, but regardless.... It’s so bad it makes amazon UX
seem tolerable in comparison!

~~~
askaboutit
The worst part is the VPN blocks even for their own content. But their UI/UX
is incredibly boring and does make it hard to search for items. They seem to
want to feed you their own choices instead of helping you find what you want.

------
CamperBob2
From the CNN article at
[https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/18/technology/business/netflix...](https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/18/technology/business/netflix-
video-promotions/index.html): _In 2016, Netflix launched video previews that
play when users browse. Netflix said that the videos cut down the time people
spent browsing 'significantly.'_

Every action this company takes seems to have one goal, above and beyond all
others: to make sure their customers never catch even a fleeting glimpse of
just how few titles they have in their streaming catalog.

A strange model, but it seems to work for them.

~~~
meesterdude
And the titles they do have are incomplete. A number of shows i've gotten into
only have a few seasons on netflix despite being several years old already -
and more frustrating is it's not always season 1.

------
amiga-workbench
The first time this happens to me I'm yanking my subscription.

~~~
severine
Well, I'm not a Netflix user, but IMO a proper binge includes muscle memory
for the shortcuts to exclude openings, endings, teasers and _in previous
episodes_ intros...

Thinking about autoplaying, unskippable ads/trailers/promos makes me giggle. I
can't imagine paying users reacting well to this.

------
kawsper
If they are serious, I do not think they know their customers very well.

~~~
goostavos
Never underestimate what a data scientist can make you "know" about your
customers.

------
throw2016
If you don't pay for it you are the product, if you pay for it you are still
the product. If you don't pay for it you get ads. If you pay for it you still
get ads.

It's like some people are making up things as situations arise to shield
corporate interests and diffuse blame to the individual to evade
accountability and cover up greed.

------
jondwillis
Lots of folks here are very negative on what seems to be a clear-cut example
of an A/B test. If Netflix sees improvement of their objectives, they will
roll it out. Maybe they will even use predictive modeling based on your usage
as to whether or not they show interstitial ads to you or not.

~~~
ebbv
You’re showing a lot of faith that they will interpret the results fairly and
act on them. The auto play video while browsing is pretty universally reviled
and they haven’t turned that off.

~~~
jondwillis
Yes, I am. I like the auto playing feature. I like the idea of interstitial
promotional ads. I am Netflix’s target user and I consider myself a fairly
nuanced consumer of their media.

~~~
josho
What value do you get from ads running on Netflix?

------
pasbesoin
Netflix's streaming UI keeps getting (substantially, for me) worse.

And a good part of this appears to be in the effort to hide and mask the
increasingly crap quality of their catalog.

Bye bye, stars. Bye bye, user comments. Hello rotating tile images -- now more
rapidly rotating tile images. Guess what? It's the same tired, B or C (or D)
list title they've been pushing at you for weeks and months.

Oh yeah, and the fan on my laptop kicking in everytime I pull the site up,
because now every tile has to have some irritating animation upon hover. Ooh,
shiny! But a lot less useful for finding something I might actually enjoy
watching, than stars and user comments.

(Think movie trailers, versus talking to a friend. Yeah, that clip may be
"compelling". But your friend will tell you it's the best 5 seconds of the
whole waste of time.)

10 bucks or so a month isn't that much. But you know what? I've had enough of
the increasingly gamed UI and lamed catalog.

I have Prime, as well, and while it isn't the greatest -- all of streaming is
becoming so balkanized -- I'm spending the vast majority of my fixed price
streaming time in it, these days.

Recently, they've adopted the "big tiles" like Netflix. But so far, they
aren't gaming the UI to nearly the extent that Netflix is.

And, starting a couple of months ago, I've gotten to revisit "Babylon 5".

Meanwhile, on Netflix, "Iron Fist" 'season' 2? Season 1 was bad enough...

------
j-c-hewitt
My wife and I really enjoy watching cooking competitions. We have probably
watched several entire series of them both on Netflix and on others. Netflix
produced a couple of their own originals. We could not make it through more
than a single episode of any of them.

One was actively offensive and disgusting in which the competitors were
floridly incompetent and the challenge was to make something gross. After that
experience which was like watching the worst of Youtube except with a 'made by
Netflix' label I do not search for cooking competition shows on Netflix
anymore.

------
unethical_ban
Netflix used to have anything the the world practically, on DVD. So much of
that didn't move to streaming. My dad has never used streaming, because they
don't have the old movies he likes.

~~~
humantiy
The dvd service is still around and actually the catalog looks far better than
what is streaming. the issue of course is that instant gratification and
convenience vs waiting for something to come in the mail.

------
yAnonymous
The shitty UX will probably be the reason when I cancel my subscription one
day.

You're a billion dollar company and your web player has problems getting the
focus right.

You still haven't found a decent way -other than notification and email spam-
to remind users when the series they're watching start a new season. Like,
keep them in the user's list, but apply an "inactive/watched" filter so they
don't mess up the list of currently running and unwatched series?

~~~
flanban
I canceled mine, somewhat for UX reasons, but I'm with you it blows my mind
that their UX isn't better given their resources.

Although I've worked in a small company that got big and subsequently lost
their speed in making the product improvements/changes that led to their
success in the first place.

I suppose the difference is when you're small you work for your customers and
when you're big you work for your investors.

------
rafaelvasco
Well, time to up my game on Torrent and Usenet then. I particularly like
UseNet for movies and other content, apart from XXX.

------
Krasnol
So, who's going to be the new Netflix?

~~~
stock_toaster
Disney or Amazon.

~~~
mirceal
IMHO I don’t see Disney pulling this off. It’s more likely they’ll go the HBO
way where after multiple failures to spin their service they will end up
selling their content as an add-on subscription.

------
meesterdude
Netflix's response to poor quality of content is to remove user reviews and
introduce unskippable ads. Looks like netflix jumped the shark. They used to
be a cool place people wanted to work at, but looks like they love is
leaving/gone. A shame! the alternatives aren't nearly as appealing.

------
p1necone
The second I see one of these ads I will unsubscribe. No ads, and being able
to watch things on demand are the two features I pay Netflix for. It's
unthinkable to me that they think this is a good idea.

~~~
p1necone
Actually screw it, I'm unsubscribing now. Whoever thought this should even be
trialed should be fired.

------
rainbowmverse
So they want to shove their shoddy recommendation engine into the few
interesting things I find. I don’t think they thought this through.

------
staticassertion
The recommendations are benign if they are the ones that show up when a series
ends. I have no issue with this - they can actually be helpful.

------
p2t2p
Ads in the paid by me streaming? Off to torrents, see 'ya (or rather not).

~~~
crysin
So a service provider behaves in a way you disagree with and you decide to
break the law and torrent copyrighted material?

~~~
p2t2p
yep. I have bad relationships with laws. There used to be laws which
prescribed certain people to wear a yellow star. Or when a black person could
not use the same water fontain as white person. So yeah, modern copyright laws
are flawed on basic philosophycal level so I have no respect for them.

------
jusonchan81
They are only testing it. If it leads to cancellations or drop in viewing or
not a successful project then they will yank it. And the guy who proposed it
will likely get fired too. They are humans, sometimes stupid choices will be
made, but their data should help correct its course eventually.

~~~
lancesells
But this is where A/B testing is fuzzy. Let's say it increases views but
erodes brand sentiment to where the next thing they do starts getting people
to cancel their subscription. Data is not everything in all cases.

I haven't seen it so no idea if I like it or not. Seems like people don't like
it but who knows? Personally, I think they need to focus on the UI and slow
down on all the mediocre content. It's choice paralysis and I'm finding it
hard to want to even take a chance on many of their originals as there is too
much.

------
King-Aaron
Time to dust off bittorrent.

------
wjp3
Cancelled. Made sure to state the reasons why, too.

------
steve19
And so it begins...

~~~
trumped
it started a while ago: [https://reelgood.com/blog/netflixs-us-catalog-has-
shrunk-by-...](https://reelgood.com/blog/netflixs-us-catalog-has-shrunk-by-
more-than-2-500-titles-in-less-than-2-5-years/)

(actually, I think it started prior to that... maybe when they started to push
people away from DVDs by almost doubling the cost)

------
erikb
The moment I see this I will stop paying them.

------
modells
Fucking Netflix

------
ishanr
so its time to get rid of the membership then.. cool

