

Why We Don't Skip Photoshop - petervidani
http://jeffcroft.com/blog/2008/jun/04/why-we-dont-skip-photoshop/
Jeff Croft's writeup in response to a recent article by 37Signals' position against the visual mockup.  Jeff cites that this may work for 37Signals because of their simple, established products and because they are not working for a client.
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mojuba
I'm going to skip Photoshop for an entirely different reason.

All Adobe products gradually became classical bloatware over the past years.
One or two minor features, or otherwise just a couple of crappy-buzzword-
features and you get a binary twice as bigger as the previous one.

When you realize they are doing that just because they need to improve sales,
you feel betrayed. So honestly, today I feel betrayed by Adobe and I'm going
to dump Photoshop, Dreamweaver and Acrobat for something else, forever. Amen.

~~~
bprater
I've used every version of Photoshop since 2.5 (thats back in the day before
layers existed!), and I've consistently been more happy with each version that
comes out.

Often, it's very simple subtle things that improve my workflow, like layer
folders or improved styles or non-destructive layers.

~~~
ardit33
I think you probably can be classified as a fanboi. I don't mean it in the
insulting way; simply you have been using it for so long, that you are used to
it totally, and comfortable with it, and any other alternative would be
considered non good enough.

People that have been using it just for a while, and used a lot of other
tools, can give a more balanced opinion to it.

For me, I have CS2 in my computer, and I almost never use it. Fireworks has
been enough for %90 of my needs.

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antidaily
For the most part, Mr. Croft and 37signals work in too different arenas (as he
points out). Bottom line: if you're designing a webpage, its still ok to start
in photoshop. If you're designing an app with buttons and forms, start with
HTML/CSS.

~~~
redorb
I think his point is if "You are only designing web apps that your will own
and operate or are in a family of web apps that will have a similar look" then
it is ok to skip photo shop

~~~
petervidani
I agree. I think, like it's been said, that 37Signals is a special case. I
believe in the field we all work in, it is wise to assume a graphic mockup as
a step in the progress and then carefully decide whether or not it's a neutral
step based on the history of projects you've completed. In other words, there
is no bottom line.

~~~
davidw
I don't think 37signals is necessarily a special case - there are plenty of
customer oriented websites out there that have _a_ look and feel, and don't
require client buy-in.

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webwright
On the app side, I'm not sure if HTML/CSS always wins.

Between Yahoo's stencils (and some of my own), I can get some clear ideas in
play that look like a web page in Photoshop in an hour or two, assuming I
don't get tempted by pixel-perfection. This is slower than sketching, but I
think just about always causes the audience to consider the prototype more
thoroughly, uncovering problems and potential that a sketch usually won't.

Rails is fast, but it's still cheaper to tweak a Photoshop doc with your team
looking over your shoulder.

~~~
jamesjyu
Yes, I totally agree with this. I typically use Illustrator instead of
Photoshop, just because I think it's easier to mock things up quickly and make
edits quickly.

I will usually get to a stable design, and then bring the whole team in and
put the design up on the projector. We then discuss, critique, and dissect the
design. The whole time, I can rapidly make new versions and forks of the
design based on suggestions. This is just something that you can't do in
HTML/CSS, at least not in realtime.

There's just something about HTML/CSS that constrains you to think in a box.
With Illustrator or some other design tool, it's easier to get your ideas out.
For me, getting to a pixel perfect design after planning in Illustrator is
trivial.

The hard part is getting the actual design down.

I think this whole thread has too many hackers that are either scared of using
design tools like Photoshop, against them because they are expensive or
bloated, or deem them unnecessary because HTML/CSS is "good enough". I
guarantee you that I'm able to iterate on designs faster and more efficiently
using design tools rather than hand coding.

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TrevorJ
Everybody has a a different creative process, and the only important metric to
judge it by is: does it work for you, and does it work in the context of your
team members?

the easiest way to stumble into a wrong approach is to blindly adopt somebody
else's approach without tailoring it to the particulars of how YOU work and
think.

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sabat
Why I voted this up: because the author suggests that there is not just one
correct way to do something. Which is not what 37signals usually suggests.

~~~
bprater
Compelling writing often forces one to take a strong position.

~~~
sabat
Agreed. My point is just that 37signals doesn't have to go as far as they do.
A somewhat milder position would aid their message.

~~~
jraines
Actually it almost certainly wouldn't, unless you mean specifically for you.

They're constantly in the press, they generate conversations on sites like
this, and they've spawned a legion of (number)(noun) imitators. It's one of
the basic principles of copywriting and social media marketing that it pays to
be bold and occasionally controversial.

~~~
sabat
Pissing people off garners attention, sure. I'm not sure it's good business in
the long run, though.

~~~
run4yourlives
Um, they're proving otherwise. They've pissed off a whole boatload of people,
and their customer based is still growing.

It's that old, "it nobody hates you, you aren't doing anything worthwhile".

~~~
sabat
Or, maybe their bullshit hasn't caught up with them yet.

