
Wisconsin Officials Urge People to Stop Vaping After Sudden Rise in Lung Disease - lnguyen
https://gizmodo.com/wisconsin-health-official-urges-people-to-stop-vaping-a-1836921788
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exogeny
I sort of hate these articles, because the comments always boil down to three
main categories:

1\. I vape and this hasn’t happened to me, therefore I’m an expert on public
health policy

2\. I vape and because it’s better than cigarettes, it’s safe on those terms
alone

3\. What the hell is wrong with you idiots, safer than cigarettes is not the
same as safe

You’re either irrationally defensive (1, 2) because you feel attacked, or
you’re a smug dick (3) that trivializes addiction.

~~~
colechristensen
Think link is about 11 cases identified (and a cluster of 8, whatever they
mean by that).

That would not point to "vaping" being specifically dangerous, but a specific
dangerous product batch either vaporizer or fluid causing lung disease. It
wouldn't be surprising given the loosely/unregulated status of many of these
things and the ease of importing supplies from questionable origins.

~~~
9wzYQbTYsAIc
Some of the liquids causing this particular “pandemic” were obtained on the
black market and included THC... May not even really be a case of something
slipping by the professional sales of eliquids.

------
hprotagonist
Note that the black vape on the right in the photo is very much unlike the
other two.

It’s a dry herb cannabis vaporizer —- oddly, one of the very few that’s a
certified medical device. (it’s a storz and bickel crafty)

There’s a vast difference between concentrate/ejuice/distillate vapes and
something like a crafty.

It would be nice if the two categories of vapes could be separated more
cleanly when discussing health effects because it would separate a lot of the
variables.

~~~
Quanttek
Agreed but I wouldn't try to infer from a stock photo to the substance of the
story. The vast majority of vapes used, especially those by young adults and
teens, are not black vapes.

~~~
mattmanser
It clearly says in the story they had all vaped 'THC', AKA a catch all term
these days for dodgy shit.

More than likely, given how this hasn't happened in the rest of the WORLD,
they vaped something extremely dodgy that they knew was dodgy.

if you need me to spell this out for you, this has NOTHING to do with vaping
and everything to do with dodgy drug dealers.

~~~
hprotagonist
Yeah this smells like “someone bought a street cart”. You can buy unfilled 510
carts that claim to be Brass Knuckles or any other major brand, on alibaba,
for pennies. Fill it up with whatever you want.

pro tip, don’t buy carts unless it’s from a dispensary. And even then, flowers
nicer :)

------
buttcoinslol
They likely got a bad batch of THC cartridges, there's a ton of black market
ones going around all over, with who knows what in them.

Millions of people use nicotine vaporizers daily with no ill effects.

~~~
leggomylibro
Yeah, a local cluster of ~8-20 cases and the patients say they were using
'THC' cartridges in a state where it's illegal?

People were putting synthetic cannabinoids in e-juice over a decade ago, and
I'd be surprised if there wasn't still a market for it. I'd also be surprised
if the actual chemicals being used haven't evolved to keep up with regulations
- at this point they'd probably be dozens of analogues away from what was
presented in the original Huffman papers, huh?

I think it's probably a very bad idea to knowingly use that sort of thing, but
I guess the underground market might not have very well-regulated labeling
standards.

~~~
buttcoinslol
Yes, from own experiences, the cheap carts [dank/mario cart] which are black
market only labels use thc analogues while the ones that make it here that
_are_ sold in dispensaries are generally legit [rove/tko]

From what I've read about opiate analogues, whatever thc analogues they're
using ~15 years after the Huffman paper are far removed from their original
state.

I can also confirm there is a tremendous demand for thc carts in non-legal
states.

~~~
SynthCann
Very interesting to see JWH discussed on HN. This stuff was BIGGG about a
decade ago, and then I stopped hearing about it. It's crazy to see they are
still playing the game of cat and mouse with these analogues, and even getting
them into the black market carts.

I have medical so thankfully I don't need to mess with the black market at
this point. I would _highly_ advise against using any synthetic cannabinoids.

~~~
tempguy9999
> I would _highly_ advise against using any synthetic cannabinoids.

Any specific reasons to say this? Medical knowledge, personal experience or
other?

I did have one experience with a synthetic cannabinoid and it was very bad
indeed, took me days to recover. FYI. I'd not rule out trying it again but
with great care. Though now it's illegal in the UK, so prob won't happen.

~~~
sterlind
I remember there being a number of deaths from some cannabinoids, but after
doing some research I can't confirm. This is what I found:

AMB-FUBINACA caused a "zombie outbreak" which sent 33 people to the hospital
in Brooklyn: [https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/14/nyregion/zombielike-
state...](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/14/nyregion/zombielike-state-was-
caused-by-synthetic-marijuana.html)

Anecdotally, AM-2201 seems to cause enlarged liver and other health problems
with long-term use:
[https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=95702](https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=95702)

I remember CP-55,940 and WIN-55,212 having serious side effects but I couldn't
find information..

~~~
tempguy9999
Comprehensive answer. I particularly appreciate you made it clear what you
couldn't verify, or what was anecdotal. I wish I could upvote it twice for
that alone.

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patientplatypus
This is what happens when you make the drugs that have been safe for years
illegal. People who make marijuana illegal don't care about children - they
would rather have a few die as a moralistic lesson to others than allow anyone
to get high. Because they're assholes. Full stop.

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systematical
Is their research on people who have ONLY vaped? Most people who vape are
former/current smokers. For me, I vape when not drinking and smoke cigarettes
when drinking. This means I smoke about 2-3 packs a month, the rest is vape.

It's harm reduction for me and allows me to still perform at a reasonable
cardio level in beer leagues. Now my evidence is shotty, but my lungs "feel"
better and I have a noticeable improvement in cardio when I haven't touch a
cigarette in a few days and have just been vaping. My ability to stay on the
ice (I play hockey) is noticeably better. I don't start getting really tired
until the third period, whereas with cigarettes I am dead by the second
period.

~~~
mkl
This reasoning seems pretty strange to me. Why not quit entirely?

~~~
kolinko
There are often quite a few psychiatric issues that nicotine helps out with.
Also, probably a good chunk o population has issues that are just slightly
below threshold of what is considered a condition, but niccotine helps them
out a lot.

As an ADHD-diagnosed person, to function properly I need some sort of a
stimulant. It's really "choose your adventure" kind of a situation - I need
either sugar, ritalin or nicotine, and the less I take of one the more I need
of another to function properly.

Keep that in mind when you see someone smoking - unless you're 100% sure that
they are neurotypical, you don't know if it's addiction or self-medication.

------
kortilla
10 people go blind drinking moonshine, Wisconsin officials urge people to stop
drinking. Wtf is wrong with them giving this overreaction after a cluster of
bad cases of people who smoked “THC” juice.

------
Havoc
meh. Inhaling a bunch of chemicals was always gonna be a roll of the dice.

Better question is whether it's more dangerous than smokes cause people will
want their nicotine fix one way or the other

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badrabbit
So, I am just trying to understand how it's worse than caffeine.

I vape but I simply don't get how bad it is compared to the normal smog and
other impure air we breathe. Nicotine aside,what makes vaping risky? Like are
there specific chemical substances? When i starter it I assumed it was
nictone,water vapor and flavorings which have no known side effects on the
lung.

~~~
noja
What do the ingredients on your packet say?

~~~
buttcoinslol
Vegetable Glycerin, Propylene Glycol, Natural and Artificial Flavorings,
Nicotine

~~~
brokenmachine
Natural lung disease flavor.

Seriously, could they be any more vague than "Natural and Artificial
flavorings?"

------
swebs
Is there a better source than Gizmodo? It's basically a tabloid

~~~
martey
The very first link in the article is the original source - a press release
from Wisconsin's Department of Health:
[https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/news/releases/080219.htm](https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/news/releases/080219.htm)

