
Blizzard Says It Wasn't Expecting Fans to Be This Angry About Diablo Immortal - evo_9
https://kotaku.com/blizzard-says-it-wasnt-expecting-fans-to-be-this-angry-1830204721
======
bdz
And Kotaku once again spins the wheel against the players

>The explosion of outrage has many on social media discussing the extent to
which video game culture enables entitlement. It’s not surprising, after all,
that there’s been some pushback on the idea of a mobile Diablo game. What’s
shocking here is the sheer amount of molten vitriol that’s pouring in over
what seems to be a pretty cut-and-dry situation: A proper new Diablo has been
and continues to be in the works, and Diablo Immortal is its own thing that’s
not detracting from that. Also, the game itself is fine, if a little too
shallow. No harm, no foul—aside from maybe some hurt feelings over unfulfilled
expectations. And yet, people have decided that this is the ultimate betrayal,
all because a single game isn’t hyper-focused on the diehard PC and console
crowd. It’s fine and understandable to be skeptical of a big company, but the
reaction here is wildly disproportionate to what Blizzard’s actually done.

Or see Mashable [https://mashable.com/article/diablo-immortal-hands-
on/](https://mashable.com/article/diablo-immortal-hands-on/)

Or this
[https://twitter.com/WillJPowers/status/1058446033724694528](https://twitter.com/WillJPowers/status/1058446033724694528)

Gaming journalism is just terrible trash. The fact that these companies are
trying to be immune and there are people who get paid to defend them is
outrageous. No other medium does that.

And people wonder how the hell do they get away with p2w and gambling
mechanics in games.

~~~
pcwalton
> And people wonder how the hell do they get away with p2w and gambling
> mechanics in games.

Because that business model is profitable, and entertainment is a business
like any other. If you don't like it, you are free not to play it. Besides
some potential for gambling addiction (about which state lotteries are a far
more important target for your ire if that is your concern), mobile games
produce no externalities whatsoever.

I continue to be completely mystified with the concept of outrage about video
games. If you want to be outraged about corporate behavior, there are a
multitude of examples of corporate malfeasance with actual negative
externalities, such as the coal industry's contribution to climate change.

~~~
kowdermeister
This is all fine, but I help demystify the problem here. They marketed the new
game to a completely detached audience as the highlight of the event. And when
real questions came in, like _" maybe a PC version comes later?"_ The reaction
is: _" You guys not have phones?"_[1] I can see people snapping to rage mode.

And then the gaming 'media' calls theys guys out as assholes, which really
shows how strings are really pulled behind the curtains.

[1][https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqjVdPtB9lU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqjVdPtB9lU)

~~~
Buldak
So the complaint is just that Blizzard should have framed their announcement
differently? The project is fine, but just don't present it at Blizzcon? That
seems so feeble to me, and the sort of criticism you get when fans can't
reconcile their displeasure with the understanding that Blizzard is rational
to pursue the mobile gaming market this way. As for "You guys not have
phones?", that was obviously a bad look, but seeing as it was an off-the-cuff
remark in an awkward exchange, I'm not inclined to hold it against the
speaker.

~~~
sharpneli
>The project is fine, but just don't present it at Blizzcon?

Precisely this. It's not that feeble because you must remember what Blizzcon
is. Know your audience. Blizzcon audience has paid $199 to get in. They are
quite hard core PC gamers. If your main show for them is something they are
not interested of course they are gonna be unhappy.

If Blizzard wants to change Blizzcon they should tell the audience that
"Blizzcon 2018 is focused on mobile" before they buy the tickets.

Don't suddenly change the theme and expect a good reaction

~~~
happytoexplain
You're making a point that keeps being brought up about expectations, which is
valid and I get it, but I think the point was not that people should not
rightfully criticize Blizzard for that, but rather that the absolute outrage
seems ridiculous. This sort of over-the-top accusative outrage is a sad
fixture in modern culture, but it seems bizarrely more common in video game
news than elsewhere.

~~~
slothtrop
> absolute outrage seems ridiculous

Well, absolute outrage is not absolute. This isn't something that's accurately
metered. As with everything in outrage culture, the media tells us the outrage
is palpable and we simply accept it. Users voicing their displeasure on reddit
/ twitter / youtube in any capacity is all it takes for the rags to twist this
into an apocalyptic, mouth-frothing rage machine. It's a complete joke. The
barrier to typing a few words for the world to see is paper thin. Displeasure
isn't rage.

It's easy to manipulate discourse this way because anything can be construed
as utter outrage.

------
d0m
Fans aren't angry about the diablo mobile game. They're angry because they
were expecting a Diablo4 announcement and blizzard announced a diablo mobile
game.. this is very different. IMHO the problem was in the way it was
communicated, not with the game itself. It would have been very different if
blizzard said:

    
    
      A) We've hired amazing people and we're working super hard on the next big Diablo title on PC, and here's one cool cinematic / picture to show it.
      B) A *separate* team of amazing devs has achieved the impossible and created a brand new diablo experience on mobile.
    

Instead, they announced to the A) fans they were working on B) instead of A).

~~~
mrweasel
The venue is just weird, why would they even announce a Diablo mobile game at
BlizzCon? The people who care enough about Blizzards games to attend or follow
BlizzCon DO NOT CARE about mobile games, at all.

The people handling marketing and products at Blizzard, and EA, and Bethesda
aren't in touch with their most loyal fans. I can only imagine how much money
there must be in in-game transactions, given that all three companies continue
to upset fans that don't mind paying $60 for a new release.

~~~
UncleMeat
But hearthstone exists. This is clear evidence that some portion of the
community does care about mobile games at blizzcon.

~~~
navbaker
The mobile version of hearthstone came long after the pc version.

~~~
dispat0r
And a TCG is much easier todo on mobile without sacrificing game depth. Diablo
3 wasn't even very deep but you couldn't port that to mobile because the
controls just don't work like that.

------
pkaye
Maybe they can make another "head tilted to the left with mouth open" game.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/8gt6vs/why_yes_i_do...](https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/8gt6vs/why_yes_i_do_have_a_refined_taste_in_mobile_games/?st=jo34kxfs&sh=88945949)

~~~
fileeditview
This made me laugh a lot.. it seems like the icon for Fallout Shelter was
changed to look more like the others. They wrote in the patch notes:

"Vault-Tec has noticed many overseers prefer game icons with faces screaming
to the right. In an effort to raise your enjoyment and thoughtlessly blend in
with the crowd, we’ve updated for a limited time. You’re welcome!"

(this is from a Reddit comment)

~~~
Izkata
It's also not the Duel Links icon (at least on Android). Totally difference
character and facing straight out instead of to the side, though his mouth is
slightly open in a yell.

------
teilo
To make matters worse, this is not Diablo at all. It is little more than a
reskin of NetEase's Crusaders of Light. I'd say the outrage is justified.

Blizzard's claims that this thing is built from scratch from the ground up are
laughable.

------
ben_jones
The Diablo Immortal announcement was essentially the keynote of an already
underwhelming Blizzcon this year. The game itself is just a re-skinning of an
existing Chinese market ARPG with Blizzard's IP - Blizzard a company that has
been known for axing titles for not meeting its quality standards. The game
will be developed by Netease with one Chinese fan quoting "If EA is like a 2
out of 10, Netease is -2859".

Of course Blizzard, Diablo, and ARPG mobile games, have a long history so
there is more context. For one Blizzcon is something this crowd could compare
to WWDC and similar conventions. Tickets start at around $200, with travel,
food, lodging, and other expenses pushing the cost of attendance to over $1000
for many people. Keep in mind that unlike WWDC or other conventions your
employer will likely not pay for you to go - so its straight out of pocket and
people expect to get what they pay for. In addition Blizzard has been pushing
"Virtual Tickets" for $50, where most gaming conventions stream for free to
users on Twitch or Youtube.

It's been over 6 years since Diablo 3, and there was a 12 year wait for that
game after Diablo 2. Naturally seeing Diablo as the topic of the keynote, many
Diablo fans hoped and prayed it was the Diablo 4 announcement.

Finally ARPG mobile games are massive in the Chinese market, with fremium and
micro-transaction models that would make candy crush and Pokemon Go blush.
With a blatant re-skin it was clearly designed for a starkly different
marketing segment then would be present at the keynote at Blizzcon. To force
your developers to pitch that game to that crowd is sheer incompetence,
yielding what will surly be timeless internet memes such as "you all have
phones right" [1], and "this is an April Fools joke right" [2].

[1]: Response to the question if they'd be porting long-requested features
present in the mobile game back to the Diablo 3 PC version.

[2]: Question asked directly on stage by a brave fan.

~~~
3rdAccount
6 years since D2? Did you mean D3, or was there a re-make?

------
ThrowawayR2
Could've been predicted; there was similar backlash against EA for the mobile
game that was themed after the old Command & Conquer RTS series:

[https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-06-10-as-the-
interne...](https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-06-10-as-the-internet-
slams-eas-command-and-conquer-mobile-game-the-developers-call-for-a-fair-
shake)

~~~
swat535
Exactly and then EA caved and started doing damage control on reddit..

[https://www.reddit.com/r/commandandconquer/comments/9nbrfm/c...](https://www.reddit.com/r/commandandconquer/comments/9nbrfm/cc_update_from_ea/?st=JN4YLFFJ&sh=2831010a)

I think the bigger issue here is that companies are being greedy and want to
use their flagship games as marketing to profit on microtransactions (which
are very common) in mobile games.

This is what fans are mostly upset about.

------
lousken
They completly missed their target audience, I'd guess except for hearthstone
95% of ppl on blizzcon are PC gamers and Diablo fans especially so that was
expected. And what was that stupid question at the end about not having
phones? Yes ppl do have phones but most of them don't have and don't need
gaming capable ones and why would they buy one? Mobile gaming is terrible
except for card games and couple of casual trash clicking games. Sure you can
use something like gamevice but that'll cost you even more money. And
obviously PC gamers expect microtransactions on mobile.

So that's why people are angry - they were waiting 5 years and got this.

~~~
erik_seaberg
The PC master race is still upgrading desktops for performance. They're never
going to be content with the severe compromises that make a pocket-sized
CPU/GPU work at all. From their point of view there _are no_ gaming-capable
phones.

~~~
calyth2018
The kind of gameplay that Diablo is known is probably a bad fit for mobile
gaming.

D1/D2 has a sizable backstory that sucked people into the hack-and-slash
gameplay. The pseudorandom map generation made it very playable. The fact that
the game sucked you in and made it hard to stop mashes well with the story.

D3 kinda forgot about the backstory and the tone.

A mobile phone would simply run out of battery maybe an hour into that kind of
game play.

------
bad_user
Diablo 2 was epic. Diablo 3 is just a shadow of its former self. Even the
graphics are arguably worse, which is quite the feat.

I can’t be outraged of course. I gave up on Diablo a long time ago.

The article briefly mentioned there was some outrage when they announced the
console version too. Well, that’s quite understandable, because the game is
really shallow, Zynga-style.

Diablo was never a RPG with depth of course, the gameplay being basically a
mindless point and click, but there was a lot of fun in character development,
and there are entire websites devoted to guides for developing your character
in Diablo 2 and all of that is gone in Diablo 3. Blizzard somehow managed to
completely miss the point of what made Diablo 2 awesome.

If they announced a remastered Diablo 2, I’d stay in line for it. Otherwise I
don’t see the point of a new Diablo, as I know it will suck.

And yes, for diehard fans, I completely understand the outrage.

------
mustaflex
Blizzard kept re-uploading the Diablo Immortal trailer multiple time to
prevent massive dislikes on youtube. The video from the battle.net app is at
its third version now. They should know better, you can't get away with these
kind of shady practices, especially with a fan group that pay attention at
what you do.

------
jorblumesea
The problem is Blizz didn't have anything else to announce at Blizzcon. So
people pay a good amount of money to be there, and the only thing that's
announced is an outsourced/reskinned mobile game. Not even a true Blizzard
title.

So naturally the anger gets directed towards the game. Had they announced
anything else with it such as D4 news, D3 dlc, D2 remaster...literally
anything else, it would have been fine.

Also remember Blizzard is not Blizzard/Activision and many of the old guard
has left. Mike Morhaime and Chris Metzen departures were huge. I wonder if the
writing is on the wall.

------
jasonlotito
The game journalists defending Blizzard seem to be missing the issue here. The
issue isn't the mobile game. The issue is where it was announced and to which
audience.

Let me paint a picture. You buy tickets to see Rage Again the Machine perform,
and RATM come out, and instead of performing their set, the do a mime act and
that's it. They are done.

You'd be pissed. Now, let's realize for a second, they performed for you, and
they're performance might be something some people are interested in. Just not
the audience that paid to see them. So yeah, people are going to be insulted.

People don't care that Blizzard is making a mobile game. What they are upset
with is that the audience they are presenting to, the fans they are reaching
out to that still play Diablo, that were literally present, were completely
ignored.

Finally, let's not ignore the fact that this is really just a cash grab at a
Chinese market. That's fine if that's what they want to do, but it's being
driven by that market (this is clear because they are adopting patterns
popular in China and not the West). Just don't pretend that another audience
is going to cheer for the fact that they are being ignored.

~~~
pier25
Yep.

IIRC fans paid $200 tickets and I imagine even some traveled to go to the conf
because there was so much hype around a new Diablo game.

------
mariusmg
Looks like the Activision part of the company finally took complete control
over the Bizzard part...

------
dqpb
I understand wanting something and then being disappointed when you didn't get
it. But the anger and lashing out is pathetic.

If you really want something, build it yourself. If you can't do it on your
own, open source it and build a community. If you can't do that then your just
begging to be disappointed. Relying on complete strangers to continually
entertain you in exactly the way you want to be entertained, otherwise you'll
lash out - it's sick and dystopian.

~~~
dqpb
That said, mobile games do suck.

------
leotravis10
Related tweetstorm on this, which I agree on:
[https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1058917187061252096.html](https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1058917187061252096.html)

------
roymurdock
i wonder how adoption/reception will be in china. a lot of companies with
digital and entertainment products are now having the discussion of how to
target the chinese and indian markets given the huge populations and growing
middle class. classic blizz games have been mostly NA/European/korean
players...wonder if the upcoming full games will try to blend cultural/lore
references to target a non Western audience

------
prolikewh0a
It's not like those same complaining fans aren't going to all play it and
throw endless money at microtransactions.

Remember COD:MW2 protests?

[https://kotaku.com/5403286/what-modern-
warfare-2-boycotters-...](https://kotaku.com/5403286/what-modern-
warfare-2-boycotters-are-playing)

~~~
wand3r
I am not a gamer so I could be wrong but it’s REALLY hard to believe hardcore
PC gamers are going to play a reskinned Chinese game on a cell phone and pay
microtransactions. It might make money, but not from the people up in arms
about this.

~~~
threatofrain
The blizzard developer quoted in the article stated emphatically that wasn't
true, and that similarities owed to adopting successful GUI idioms in other
markets; does the gaming community have information to update the story?

~~~
philipov
"Successful GUI idioms," is that a euphemism for dark patterns to make people
spend more money? Anyway, even if they built it from scratch it isn't enough
to refute the spirit of it being just a reskin of some other crappy cellphone
game.

Many, though certainly not all PC gamers are serious about not having their
platform choices manipulated by exclusivity deals. It is interpreted as
bullying, and we have had plenty of practice sticking to that belief against
attempts to coerce people to buy every console. Red Dead Redemption 2 was just
released, but even though it looks like an actually good game, it simply
doesn't exist for me until it comes to PC.

~~~
zaphar
Wow, you are harsh. They replicated the control scheme from another game
because it was a good control scheme. Sort of like how most PC games all use
Q,W,E,S for movement.

You don't know what the monetization scheme will be but you are sure it will
use dark patterns to drain peoples wallets.

You apparently didn't read the article to see what the similar GUI patterns
they replicated were but you are certain it's just another pay to win game.

Your bias is showing.

~~~
threatofrain
I do feel that the world of mobile games is tarnished in reputation for good
reason, and that backlash against mobile games is primarily from parents,
because the population they've been targeting has been very young kids.

In some ways it also tarnishes the Android and Apple brand, which is why I
think Google reacted with multi-accounts device sharing and YouTube kids. I
wonder how much mobile gaming revenue is because parents signed in with their
credit card and there aren't multiple accounts on iOS, and you can't update a
game without the parent signing back in, and Family Sharing has no
granularity. I have to think that Apple has walked over every inch of their UX
and knows this.

On Blizzard, I'm feeling what they mismanaged was the fact that their
conference is expensive and anticipated enough to travel to, but what they
announced is for a different audience.

~~~
philipov
Their statements don't make a good case for them doing more than following the
money, and part of the reason for the outrage. The outrage is itself a move
played to signal this. People talk about how capitalism is driven by signals
from the demand side, and this kind of outrage is integral to forming boycott
factions large enough to oppose the advertising and noise produced by the
marketing-industrial complex.

As corporations become ever larger, it becomes harder to make demand-side
opinions observable, and so it becomes necessary to employ more extreme forms
of protest to avoid being overpowered by the sell-side attempts at influence.
If that influence is not opposed, the market will become entirely dominated by
the sell-side and will allow trust-like abuse of power, destroying the
equilibrium pressure by which markets are allegedly regulated. This kind of
market abuse does not require monopolies, and appears to be a blind spot for
many proponents of market economies.

This is not just a problem with gaming, and one could reasonably argue that
there are more important battles to fight. That said, this is probably one of
the few markets where that kind of demand-side mobilization is still possible,
as many others have already been neutralized by divide-and-conquer tactics.

