Ask HN: Are you homeschooling your kids? Why? - shafyy
======
potta_coffee
Yes.

\- We have a smart son who is neuratypical. The combination of him being bored
and sensorially overstimulated resulted in some really bad behavior. School
wanted to treated him like a problem rather than a kid with some special
needs. Once we started hearing suggestions to have him put on medication, we
decided to homeschool. He's currently thriving, reading at several grade-
levels higher than his current grade and doing mental math for fun.

\- Our kids are well socialized. The "socialization" argument against
homeschooling is mostly a joke. Kids don't learn how to behave in society from
other kids, they learn how to behave from watching adults. Regardless, our
kids have many friends and play sports and attend many activities. The fact
that we as parents know exactly who they're spending time with every day is a
huge positive factor of homeschooling. This is important to me. I was exposed
to hardcore pornography and drugs before I was 10 years old, I want a better
childhood than that for my children.

\- We don't waste time. We have a class of 3 rather than 30. That means we can
pack maximum education in and still have time for other things. When we were
in regular school, we'd all get home at 5:30 - 6:00 and rush through dinner so
that we could get through homework before bedtime. We weren't spending much
time together as a family, and much of the homework was low-value, IMO. It was
exhausting. Life is so much better for us now.

~~~
throwaway123x2
Are you or your spouse stay-at-home? Does that make homeschooling easier?

Do you pair your kids with other homeschooled kids? If so, how did you find
kids/parents with similar enough values that you were comfortable
homeschooling your kids with them?

~~~
potta_coffee
My spouse stays at home, which makes the whole thing possible. She's a champ,
to be sure.

She's on a number of Facebook groups for homeschoolers and we've been able to
meet other families that way. We've made a number of good friends through the
groups and now we're even involved in putting together our own co-op.

------
jasonkester
Not yet, but I like the idea. There are two things stopping us from pulling
the trigger at the moment:

Socialization. For us, this goes beyond the normal bit where your kids don't
spend as much time interacting with other kids and learning how to live in a
society. We live in France, so the local village school is the perfect chance
to toss the kids in head first to a new language. Both are swimming nicely, so
it'd be a shame to pull them out and lose that before they're fluent for life.

Stigma. In the US, it seems that homeschooling is what crazy bible people do
to shelter their kids from the real world. I don't want to set our kids up for
a lifetime of having to explain themselves to everybody they ever talk to
about education.

But the upsides are pretty tempting. Work-wise, I've been 100% remote for a
long time, so the only thing keeping us from traveling the world instead of
living in a house is having the kids in school. I expect we'll try taking the
kids out for an entire year before long and booking a one-way flight, just to
see how well it works...

~~~
PhaedrusV
I'm 34, and I think the number of conversations I've had where homeschooling
came up could be counted on 2 hands, and all were entirely voluntary on my
part. I was homeschooled 1st-12th. Any sense of not fitting in was gone by
sophomore year of college, and I hear it's pretty normal for freshman to feel
that way.

------
ilkhan4
We are. My wife has to put in a ton of time to make it all work, but my kids
are excelling and enthusiastic about learning now because of it. We ended up
doing it because it turned out that teachers were either keeping kids busy
with make-work, mollifying bullies until they could pass them on to someone
else, or cramming for standardized tests. We just decided that we'd had enough
one day, and thankfully right before our youngest even started.

Funny thing is, they tested as "gifted" (95-99th percentile in the county) but
it turned out they were ~2 years behind where they should have been. They've
been catching up, but the "D's get degrees" mentality is alive and well in
K-12 too.

------
gregjor
I did. Kids all grown now, doing fine. My oldest daughter hated going to
school, asked to stay home, so we started there. Then we read up and got
involved with other homeschoolers. I recommend John Holt's books, "Deschooling
Society" by Ivan Ilich, and anything by John Taylor Gatto.

[http://www.cantrip.org/gatto.html](http://www.cantrip.org/gatto.html)

Not sure how we would have managed if we both had to work, or for a single
parent. I had a flexible job and schedule, my wife was a full-time mom,
teacher, and social director. We didn't follow any curriculum, more like the
Montessori model. All of my kids have high school diplomas (through community
college), one has a BA, another still in college.

I went to private (Catholic) elementary school, then public schools. My wife
went to public schools.

------
ericbrow
I've straddled and blurred the line between being in IT and an educator. I've
seen home schooling go horribly wrong and incredibly right. From my
observations of the few dozen families I've watched, it seems to mostly depend
on the motivation of the parents, and how much time they're willing to put
into it.

The ones that tend to go wrong are those parents whose primary motivation is
to keep their children from learning things, usually on religious grounds. I'm
not saying that parents who provide a religious education do a bad job, but if
the goal is to avoid having kids learn certain basic level facts (like
reproduction), they will have gaps. I've also seen where parents expect to
throw their kid in front of a computer to do all their learning, which also
goes bad. In these first few cases, I've seen situations that come close to
neglect. A third path that can go either way are the single-issue families.
This would be parents who want their child to focus on one specific talent in
order to nurture it, like singing, dance, or a sport. In these cases, so long
as there is other topics covered, the kids can turn out ok as well as be at
the top of their field. There's also cases in this area that can look like
abuse when the parent is a little too vested in their child's success.

The home-schooling stories that are super successful are usually where one
parent (or ideally, both take turns) at turning every day activities into
learning opportunities. One family took at least one trip per week to a
museum, zoo, botanical garden, park, public government building, or
conservation area. The kids had to research the location before the visit,
write up a list of questions they had, had questions added by parents, find
and record the answers during the visit, and write up a report afterwards.
They would research an issue and write or visit government representatives to
discuss the issue as a well-informed member of the public. In those families,
it seemed the entire family was about daily and life-long learning. The
parents also had the kids involved in a lot of outside activities like local
plays, orchestras, sports. Just as busy as the public school kids, just a more
holistic approach to learning.

------
tathougies
We would consider it. My mother was a public school teacher. I have seen the
impossibility of change there and honestly have no desire to support the
schools or teacher's unions. They are not set up to produce excellence.

I would consider sending my child to a catholic school, like the one I grew up
in. However, most catholic schools these days are not like my elementary
school. They lack discipline and are basically public school proxies.

Most non-parochial schools would be out of our price range.

Thus home schooling is the only option left.

------
PhaedrusV
Will be. Was homeschooled myself. Several reasons:

1) I'm responsible for the raising and education of my children, and I'm not
going to outsource the bulk of that to strangers.

2) Less time-consuming. From talking to my friends who have 2+ children in
school it sounds like they spend about 1 hour per day on average driving their
kids around to and from school (not counting extra-curricular activities,
parent teacher conferences, homework help, etc...). My mom says her steady-
state time expenditure was around 40 minutes per day for all 3 of us, mostly
grading math and papers.

3) Way better outcomes. Homeschoolers average at the 87th percentile in
national standardized testing, and homeschoolers whose parents make less than
$35K still average in the 85th percentile.
([http://www.topmastersineducation.com/homeschooled/](http://www.topmastersineducation.com/homeschooled/))
On the anecdotal level, I'm a former USAF pilot-turned drone guy, my brother
is a successful artist, and my little sister is working on her PhD in
Aerospace Engineering when she's not kicking all our asses at fantasy
football.

4) Better socialization. Yeah, I said better. I admit that I'm less used to
spending time with people my exact age than most of my peers, but I interact
much better than they do with people younger than me and people older than me.
Funny thing, it turns out once you're out of college, most of the rest of your
life will be spent with people who aren't your exact age. Homeschooling
prepares you for that way better than public schooling.

5) "The Underground History of American Education", by John Taylor Gatto. Just
read it. It'll blow your mind, and it's well-supported. TL;DR, our school
system was modeled on the Prussian system designed to build an army that could
beat Napoleon's troops. It's designed to create obedient myrmidons who don't
know how ignorant they truly are. Don't worry, I'm sure your school was
different.

~~~
kohanz
I think the social aspect will be extremely dependent on how much the parents
put into that part. The majority of home-schooled kids (now adults) I know,
were socially stunted because of it, but I don't believe this is as much a
fault of homeschooling as it is a symptom of those particular families not
putting enough effort into integrating social environments into part of the
routine. That part comes for "free" in classroom-based education, but it
doesn't meant they have a monopoly on it.

~~~
sotojuan
In my experience growing up the homeschooled kids were usually from very
religious families who did not want their kids being social with the general
population, so you have a point there. I wonder how a "regular" family that
happens to homeschool their kid would differ.

~~~
tathougies
But I mean, if their kids found spouses in the religious group, and had
families, I find it difficult to classify them as socially stunted. Perhaps
they would be socially stunted in mainstream culture, but one is forced to
think they did just fine in their own.

~~~
sotojuan
I guess my point is that in my anecdotal experience, parents homeschooled kids
to "protect" them from regular society. Ergo, they were very sheltered and
only able to socialize within the church.

If it works for them, great, not hating - but I doubt that's what people in
this thread mean when they talk about homeschooled kids having a normal,
social life.

------
wonderofworld
Recently I was inspired to, given a time travel story someone shared. They
said "If you were to travel from 16th century to today, nothing would be
recognizable except church and the school system". In that moment I realized
the sad truth in that. So many critical life skills are taught poorly or in
many cases not taught at all.

Purchasing land/property/home, credit, investing, financial literacy,
emotional intelligence and the list continue -- these are all things that
modern education neglects. I am pro-homeschool and advocate my 4 children
travel and experience the world as much as possible.

~~~
rbg246
I don't know where you live but schools barely existed in the 1500s.

I've been thoroughly impressed with both the public school systems in UK and
Australia where my son has gone. They are greatly evolved places of learning
even than when I was at school.

~~~
JackMinello
My university was founded in 1088 and is in continuous operation since then.
Sure it is a great place to study but sometimes I ask myself if it really
changed that much

~~~
rbg246
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Bologna](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Bologna)

Maybe ask the question how many of the current departments were in existence
in 1088. I would say none of the below were there in 1088 - i would say only
theology existed in 1088 since it was established by a pope

    
    
        Architecture - DA
        Cultural Heritage - DBC
        Chemistry "Giacomo Ciamician" - CHIM
        Industrial Chemistry "Toso Montanari" - CHIMIND
        Arts - DARvipem
        Pharmacy and Biotechnology - FaBiT
        Classical Philology and Italian Studies - FICLIT
        Philosophy and Communication Studies - FILCOM
        Physics and Astronomy - DIFA
        Computer Science and Engineering - DISI
        Civil, Chemical, Environmental, and Materials Engineering - DICAM
        Electrical, Electronic, and Information Engineering "Guglielmo Marconi" - DEI
        Industrial Engineering - DIN
        Interpreting and Translation - DIT
        Modern Languages, Literatures, and Cultures - LILEC
        Mathematics - MAT
        Experimental Medicine, Diagnostic Medicine and Specialty Medicine - DIMES
        Psychology - PSI
        Agricultural Sciences - DipSA
        Management - DiSA
        Biological, Geological, and Environmental Sciences - BiGeA
        Biomedical and Neuromotor Sciences - DIBINEM
        Education Studies "Giovanni Maria Bertin" - EDU
        Agricultural and Food Sciences - DISTAL
        Economics - DSE
        Legal Studies - DSG
        Medical and Surgical Sciences - DIMEC
        Veterinary Medical Sciences - DIMEVET
        Department for Life Quality Studies - QUVI
        Political and Social Sciences - SPS
        Statistical Sciences "Paolo Fortunati" - STAT
        Sociology and Business Law - SDE
        History and Cultures - DiSCi

------
watersb
We did.

It is difficult to make general comparisons based on my own kids. I am quite
biased in this regard. But based on a couple of homeschool groups we have had,
it would seem that the kids are much better at constructive engagement in
conflict.

They need far less time in academic study, with better ability to use the
skills that they learn.

Now that they are older, they are often crushed by the homework load. They get
good marks in their academic work, but enjoy it far less. Like, a lot less.

Now, about homeschool groups: we have experience with remote, rural Rocky
Mountains (western United States) and urban Florida. Out West, homeschool
seems to be mostly "Save Our Kids from Bureaucratic Madness" with the
occasional "Save Our Kids from a Godless, Earth-is-Round Cosmology" family. In
Florida, it was all about Jesus.

Both populations had more "Vaccines Cause Brain Damage" than I would like.

They are in public school now, a hedge against our gamble on educating the
kids ourselves. They have had fantastic music education, we could not have
done that without help. Older kids socialize across age groups and grades
more, so that's ok.

It's still hard. Kids are hard. Good luck.

~~~
shafyy
What's the best way to find "secular" homeschooling groups. It's incredible
how much of the stuff you find on the internet (usually blogging,
homeschooling, religious moms) is in-your-face religious. I don't mind if
people believe in God, but man...

