
MBA builds app in less than 2 months - esgie
http://medium.com/what-i-learned-today/db31b0551c8d
======
jmduke
Lot of comments on HN, Reddit, and elsewhere criticizing the title ("what does
the MBA thing have to do with anything?", "who cares if its an MBA?", etc.),
which I think is a little ironic because the overwhelming mentality on tech
forums is that MBAs are idiots with more money than brains that get paid
absurd amounts of money to play golf and talk about synergy _who could never
do what we do_.

I'm glad that more traditionally non-tech people are being exposed to the
wonders of programming. I'd be equally ecstatic if the title read 'English
major builds app in less than 2 months.'

~~~
bredren
I chose to do a two year MBA from Babson College from 2007-2009. I had worked
at a medium-sized tech company for 3.5 years prior. My undergraduate degree is
in Computer Engineering. Today I run a startup.

I have felt strong anti-MBA sentiment here and elsewhere in the startup
community. Some VCs go out of their way to lampoon the idea of an MBA. If the
author of this article has experienced a similar sentiment, it makes a lot of
sense for this article to be titled this way.

If the prevailing mode of thought is that MBAs aren't useful, or aren't
technical, MBAs must present fact-based argument against this.

I learned a ton about working with people, leadership, finance and
organizational design in my MBA. I also learned to write Facebook
applications[1], cooperated with a friend at Rice to release the first Baby
Names iPhone application.[2] (I ran xcode on a hackintosh) I learned a ton
about how to turn an idea into a real world thing.

Sometimes things I learned during my MBA offers context to problems faced at
startups. However, when I say that things I've learned during my MBA
contributed to reasoning on a particular recommendation, I've learned this
sometimes detracts from my arguments more than add. That is frustrating.

[1] [http://banagale.com/my-first-database-
refactoring.htm](http://banagale.com/my-first-database-refactoring.htm)

[2]
[http://neutrinosllc.com/products/iphone/applications/babynam...](http://neutrinosllc.com/products/iphone/applications/babynames/)

~~~
martingordon
> If the prevailing mode of thought is that MBAs aren't useful, or aren't
> technical, MBAs must present fact-based argument against this.

Part of the problem (at least to the HN crowd), is that a lot of the problems
MBAs solve can't be shared on Github and/or can't be shared outside of the
company (because it would violate NDAs, trade secrets, etc) and so it seems
that MBAs are worthless.

I'm halfway done with my MBA (having come from the software development world)
and one of the biggest adjustments I've had to personally make is to realize
that I've gotten work done (and enjoy the associated sense of accomplishment)
even if I don't have a set of commits to show at the end of the day.

~~~
bredren
>a lot of the problems MBAs solve can't be shared on Github and/or can't be
shared outside of the company (because it would violate NDAs, trade secrets,
etc) and so it seems that MBAs are worthless.

There is definitely something to this. While programmers do perform
undocumented effort, at the end of the day they still have the opportunity to
commit or push to production. In that sense, proof of work in manifested by
looking at Github.

Using email and phone calls alone a business manager can improve a key
relationship or be influenced in a way that will lead to a major impact on a
product's future, and there is just no way to express this in a similarly
auditable fashion.

Running the business of a startup is much about managing the flow of energy.
Energy flows do not have line numbers. You can only feel the effects daily, or
wait until a major milestone like a funding event or growth spurt to clearly
evaluate success.

------
michaelolenick
I wish MBA's would knock it off with their everything is easy meme. Yes -
software, including apps, can be created in two months. In fact we can write
them in two hours, or take two years; it depends. Buried in your post is that
your partner split so you spent 24x7 obsessed on coding which, IMO, is the
right way to learn, and sometimes even the right way to work (in bursts at
least; doing that for too long leads to -- in MBA speak -- massively
diminishing ROI for your time). In any event congratulations on getting your
app out, and welcome to unwritten secret society of computer programmers who
have published software.

~~~
slantyyz
>> in MBA speak -- massively diminishing ROI for your time

I don't know any MBAs who speak like that, myself included. The only people
I've encountered who speak like that are consultants and salespeople who don't
have MBAs.

Having said that, I don't live in the USA, so maybe Americans with MBAs are a
very different beast.

------
127001brewer
I have an MBA and I have created a (very small) business
([https://realpropertyexchanges.com/](https://realpropertyexchanges.com/))
within two months _during late nights and weekends_. But I also have a family
with small children, a great "day job" and other activities and interests
(including some other development:
[https://github.com/mattchoinski](https://github.com/mattchoinski)).

Just from my limited participation in this community, I sense that several
other people are doing great things with limited resources.

It's great that the author accomplished so much, but he's not alone.

------
esgie
The title was changed on me.

It originally said: Is Hacker School/App Academy/ect worth it? (MBA builds an
app in less than 2 months)

And was posted to have a conversation about whether Hacker School and programs
like that are worth it, letting people share their opinions. The MBA aspect
was meant for context.

By editing the title to what it is above, the focus becomes something
completely different.

~~~
eaurouge
_It originally said: Is Hacker School /App Academy/ect worth it? (MBA builds
an app in less than 2 months)_

Let's flip that to: _Is B school worth it? (Engineer builds a business in less
than 2 months)._

I agree with what jmduke and damoncali had to say about this, but I'm pretty
sure Hacker School provides a lot more value than the ability to build an iOS
app in less than 2 months.

------
danielna
I had a lawn mowing business when I was 16. I had marketing, a service and
collected payments.

What's the point of business school?

~~~
Dewie
I'm glad someone brought this up. Someone might be able to start a successful
solo business venture without any formal training. But that is very different
from being an executive or having some administrative job in a medium or
larger-sized company (I am assuming). The guy that started the solo business
has that experience, great - but he's only got that perspective of being a
business administrator. Do you _need_ formal training to do most of the jobs
that MBA's do? Maybe not - but the person who has only done that one solo
business probably does not have enough perspective on that either.

In this case, I don't know if the author is only talking about building that
one first app, apps in general or programming in general (probably just apps,
I reckon). But if the audience is non-programmers who gets the impression that
programming is just about "winging it" and that formal education is totally
optional#, then it only offers a perspective from a very limited vantage
point.

#this could be a valid opinion, but only really interesting to me if it came
from an experienced programmer.

~~~
ValentineC
blindhippo: I thought I should mention that your posts are appearing dead to
me.

------
slantyyz
As much as people here may like to malign MBAs, I don't understand what the
MBA has to do with anything. A smart go-getter made an app in less than two
months.

~~~
TylerE
80% make the other 20% look bad.

~~~
slantyyz
Or, is it the 20% that make the 80% look bad?

~~~
mesozoic
As an MBA I can tell you for sure it's one or the other. I'm not sure which
though.

------
localhost3000
I made this same discovery the summer before enrolling in bschool and then
promptly dropped out of my class. it didn't make sense to take on the debt
once I determined I really enjoyed building software (and was good at it).

~~~
tixocloud
I applaud you for having the courage to attempt something and then saying that
it's not what you're looking for.

------
stevekinney
> You don’t need Hacker School, App Academy or one of those other
> organizations that trades their knowledge for your hard earned skrilla.

Hacker School is free. Essentially, it's a 3-month, self-directed program but
you're surrounded by dozens of like-minded individuals and some incredibly
talented veterans from the industry.

~~~
esgie
A lot of these schools are free to attend but take a percentage of your salary
once you find a job upon completion.

~~~
willbill
You should reword this.

Few of these schools are free. Most supplement a course fee with a placement
fee they receive by acting as your recruiter.

~~~
yaddayadda
So they have a vested interest in your subsequent earnings. Wow, on first
blush, I think all schools should have a vested interest in your subsequent
earnings.

------
ianstallings
If you did this project and enjoyed the time spent, there is a good chance you
are really a programmer that just happens to have an MBA. I hope you continue
down that path because we need people with drive like you. I wish my first
program was this good.

------
jamesjporter
Nitpick, but its worth pointing out that Hacker School as a program and an
institution is a very different beast than App Academy, Dev Bootcamp, etc. and
is somewhat mischaracterized in the article.

------
mmgutz
Shouldn't come as a surprise. Most productive software developers I know don't
have engineering or comsci backgrounds. Programming, in general, is about
problem solving.

------
hello_newman
Disclaimer: I am a student at General Assembly WDI in Santa Monica, and I am
also looking to go to Hack Reactor in San Francisco when this is completed.

I totally agree you DO NOT need to go to these programs. Everything that they
teach is definitely out there for you to learn on your own. I started to get
interested in this stuff last year working on a start-up/project and I like
these schools for a couple reasons;

1\. I get access to instructors. Because I am a "noob" I get flustered when I
spend 2-3 hours looking for an answer. 65% of the time, Stackoverflow has the
answer. But for the other 35% that needs an in depth examination, having an
instructor 10 feet away from me for 9 hours a day is incredible.

2\. Employer confidence. I believe the best way to get fucking good at this
"craft/trade" if you will, is to be gainfully employed where you get paid to
spend in excess of 40 hours a week working on your craft. There is no doubt
you can get a job without these programs by teaching yourself, building some
shit, making a nice github and applying for entry level/intern level dev jobs.
But employers like seeing you came from these programs. It's a "stamp of
approval" if you will. Companies take a chance on hiring junior devs, and
these programs offer some piece of mind being "hey, this person was good
enough to get in this program, and has spent 12 weeks being trained by these
other qualified people".

3\. Network. I have had the absolute pleasure of meeting 20 other incredibly
smart, driven, talented, and fun people. I get to be surrounded, pushed, and
inspired by these people everyday 5 days a week, 9-12 hours a day, for 12
weeks.

4\. Teaching you how to learn. This is huge for me. People on the outside seem
to say that these programs make people "one trick ponies" who only know how to
do some rails CRUD app. But that is really not true. The biggest thing with
this program (and others) is it teaches you how to learn this stuff. Rails
will be gone in a couple years replaced by something new. All this shit is
always changing; it's our job as web devs to stay on top of it, and adapt to
survive. Skills like asking the right questions, reading documentation, where
to go when you're stuck etc.

These are just some of the benefits I can think of off the top of my head.
These are not for everyone, but it has helped me immensely and love doing
this. It should also be noted, I am 21 and dropped out of school to go to
this.

Edit; The title changed. Originally this comment was to note on the original
title of "whether app academy/DBC/HR/Hacker School etc is worth it". My
argument was for why I think, in my opinion, these programs are worth it.
Didn't want this taken out of context.

------
Bjoern
Just a unrelated side note. Why does this page need to break my browser page
scrolling via space bar (in Firefox) ?

------
jrarredondo
Maybe the title for this should have been "Building a simple app is easy"

~~~
toong
I think it's more like: "Building a simple app is hard, but doable"

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Stealx
Title sounds like the start of a joke...

