
Beijing vies for greater control of foreign universities in China - ilamont
https://www.ft.com/content/09ecaae2-ccd0-11e7-b781-794ce08b24dc
======
matchsetpoint
> The Chinese Communist party has ordered foreign-funded universities to
> install party units and grant decision-making powers to a party official,
> reversing an earlier promise to guarantee academic freedom as President Xi
> Jinping strengthens political control over all levels of education.

Sounds like Xi Jinping is really gearing up for possible re-education of
college students with communist ideals and more importantly, party loyalty.
Also rejection of human rights, educational freedom, and democratic ideas.
Will this affect China's already low innovation capability? most likely.

EDIT: also, there have been alot of these desperation moves by the communist
party this year. From recently banning Katy Perry from performing in China
because she wore a Taiwan flag in 2015, to banning Winnie the Pooh. There must
be panic within the party halls regarding the economic decline.

~~~
fellellor
Why do you think the Chinese have low innovation capability? From what I hear
in the news, the opposite seems to be true.

~~~
matchsetpoint
Thought exercise: China's been open for 40 years. Think of all the inventions
from China in the last 40 years. Contrast that with Japan in 1990.

~~~
ACow_Adonis
Does China need to go down the traditional route to innovation when everyone
else volunteers it to them and installs the manufacturing means and capital
into their country voluntarily?

There might even be a curious second order effect that can help cancel out the
lack of independent thought through censored education, due to the increase of
means from disrespecting restrictive intellectual property ideas.

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hd4
I wish I could ask them how long they think they can keep the outside world
outside? And wouldn't the shock for the Chinese people just be that much worse
when control over the information inevitably breaks down? I've posted this
more than once but I'll so it again because it's ridiculous how relevant this
quote from a 20~ year-old game (Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri) describes our
current political state of affairs so well.

"As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century, free flow of
information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people
whose leaders at last lose their grip on information flow will soon burst with
freedom and vitality, but the free nation gradually constricting its grip on
public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism. Beware of he who
would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your
master."

~~~
alexasmyths
"And wouldn't the shock for the Chinese people just be that much worse when
control over the information inevitably breaks down? "

Surprisingly this may not be the case.

Sitting next to a young Chinese national at the train station who goes to
school in the USA ... he told me he likes that the 'state controls the press'
for the following reason: 'because some crazy person could just, you know, get
a knife and start killing people'.

It was all rather odd: that it's all about public safety, and avoiding 'crazy
people with knives' \- but oddly - he was living mostly in the USA. I asked
him 'do you feel unsafe right now, in the US, that someone could come at you
with a knife'? He replied that he did not. But the irony was lost on him.

There are a lot of people who support the 'one state / one party' thing even
if they might disagree with some of the tactics here and there, they just see
it in a different way.

In much the same way Russians on some level are very aware of Putin's
curruption and yet look past it.

~~~
hd4
It's starting to feel like China is a version of NK where they're allowed to
leave the country (presumably in order to share the fruits of their 'logic'
such as the case you mentioned).

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Exit visas haven’t been a thing in china since the early 90s, but they totally
existed before then.

~~~
alexasmyths
Maybe not - but - the state will grab up people's passports for whatever
reason they want, whenever they want.

Of course this happens everywhere, but it's a pretty big deal when it does
happen.

I think China is kind of odd - because you don't immediately get the sense
that the government is watching everyone. I mean - there are far fewer people
in prison. But the 'eye' is there and if you do specific things ... well ...
the silent alarm is tripped.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
China really isn’t like the DPRK. It’s not like you are under surveillance, or
anyone cares what you say or think as long as you don’t have a big audience.
Well, it used to be like that, but things changed in the 80s, progress has
been made.

It is just frustrating that there are so many regressions. The opening up of
the mid-late 80s was of course crushed after 6/4, but then there was the
opening up that happened before the Olympics that was then throttled back
really quickly (and indeed, internet censorship became much more harsh than it
ever was). Annoying to say the least.

~~~
alexasmyths
Yes, I agree, that's what I meant to say.

Not so much 'surveillance' but watchfulness anyhow.

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crispinb
Being the fierce defenders of academic freedom that they are, the foreign
universities affected will no doubt now withdraw from China to the extent that
their current contracts allow.

~~~
Feniks
Ha even Google is crawling back. Universities are billion dollar corporations
in the 21th century.

------
hd4
It's gotta be sheer coincidence that every article/thread on HN critical of
China, all the comments questioning the Chinese state get voted down.

Season 3 of Mr Robot hasn't gone far enough IMO.

------
vfulco
What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it. Well, he
gets it. I don't like it any more than you men.

------
gruez
can we get the title changed? actual title: Beijing vies for greater control
of foreign universities in China.

also, paywall bypass:
facebook.com/l.php?u=[https://www.ft.com/content/09ecaae2-ccd0-11e7-b781-794ce08b2...](https://www.ft.com/content/09ecaae2-ccd0-11e7-b781-794ce08b24dc)

~~~
GauntletWizard
Why would we give a title that's pure spin?

~~~
seanmcdirmid
The current title implies that China wants control of universities foreign to
(outside of) China, not foreign universities operating inside China. That
China has foreign universities operating inside it at all is a concept foreign
to most of us. Heck, it’s probably news to most people inside china as they
are relatively new things.

I’m not sure what you expect from NYU Shanghai, of course the government is
going to meddle and make students take political indoctrination classes.
That’s just how China is. I’m more surprised anyone would expect otherwise.

~~~
gruez
even if they were genuinely surprised, there's nothing stopping them from
pulling out, is there? sure, the government can seize the campus or whatever,
but the real value to them is the branding + profs, both of which can be
unilaterally revoked.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
1\. Sunk costs.

2\. They don’t really care and already expected this.

I believe these are also JVs with lots of Chinese capital involved.

~~~
jiggunjer
What costs? I bet the government paid for the campuses. It has an incentive to
keep citizens inside their borders. Universities already charge top-dollar for
admission of overseas students, so they might not make much more trading a
price drop for a volume rise.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
They definitely have some exposure, NYU shanghai for example is a huge effort
from both shanghai municipal sources and NYU proper. The government does
provide subsidies in the form of land, but the venture typically books land
appreciation right away which they are loathe to lose (the same thing happened
with Microsoft’s Beijing campus). So perhaps it is more accurate to say they
have something to lose even if their initial investment wasn’t that large.

------
Feniks
None of this should be a surprise to anyone. Chinese soil Chinese law.

