
Samsung’s Chromebook Plus now supports Linux apps - artsandsci
https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/6/5/17428806/samsung-chromebook-plus-linux-app-support-beta-launched
======
drcode
I have the chromebook plus and just want to caution that this support is super
early and there are significant shortcomings at the moment (lots of apps crash
when trying to use the clipboard & java based apps seem to crash
intermittently for unexplained reasons) but likely this will clear up in the
coming weeks, given the fast pace of bug fixes in crostini so far.

In contrast, the Pixelbook (currently on sale for $750) has the exact same
feature set but is very stable- This is the one I'd recommend any person to
buy who wants to use a chromebook for development.

Also, I have a clojure project and it takes 24 seconds to build on the
Pixelbook, but takes 64 seconds on the Chromebook Plus- Keep in mind the
Chromebook Plus uses the same ARM processor as a typical phone, so this is
still very impressive for a compiler running inside a VM.

~~~
forgot-my-pw
How's the Pixelbook? Anything missing for software development? Can you run
everything without needing crouton/ubuntu installed?

~~~
drcode
Works great, just enable linux support and you can apt-get whatever you want
and run UI apps right next to chromeOS windows. Glitches are few and far
between, though it's still only a beta feature.

EDIT: Yes, the lack of GPU support is still a major limitation.

~~~
forgot-my-pw
What's your to go IDE / text editor to code in Chromebook?

~~~
drcode
debian version of UI emacs works great

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anderber
It's still very early on, but I feel like this is a game changer for
Chromebooks. Between web apps, Android apps and now Linux apps, they will
become very developer friendly.

~~~
rhombocombus
This is the thing that I have been waiting for to try one for development: A
non hacky way to use linux tools on their lightweight machines.

~~~
tjoff
A lot of people use termux on android/chrome-os for that purpose. I haven't
done real work on it though I am absolutely in love with it, after trying tons
of apps having the ability to just create a script with some rsync commands
for syncing pictures etc. is a godsend.

~~~
imtringued
I tried to use termux. It doesn't support openjdk which makes it useless to
me.

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bonyt
This is cool. I've got a couple Chromebooks where I re-flashed the firmware
(SeaBIOS or, more recently, Tianocore UEFI) to get a full linux distro
running, but it looks like this will get you full linux software with Chrome
OS's security and containment features.[1]

Plus, it looks like Samsung's Chromebook Plus is ARM based - I've wanted an
ARM-based laptop for a while, where I'm willing to trade some power for
battery life. And using a non-Intel machine is also just fun for the novelty
of it.

[1]: [https://techcrunch.com/2018/05/08/you-can-now-run-linux-
apps...](https://techcrunch.com/2018/05/08/you-can-now-run-linux-apps-on-
chrome-os/)

~~~
WhiteOwlLion
Make sure you get the Plus version which has the OP1 ARM processor according
to the article below:

[https://www.theverge.com/2017/2/10/14570480/samsung-
chromebo...](https://www.theverge.com/2017/2/10/14570480/samsung-chromebook-
plus-laptop-review)

Processors:

Plus: OP1 ARM Pro: Intel Core m3-6y30

------
chimeracoder
I have a Chromebook Plus, and I have to say, it's not a device I'd recommend.
I only use it as a tablet replacement (watching video and reading digital
comics), and if manages to fail miserably at both of those.

As someone who uses Linux on all of his desktop and laptop devices, it kills
me to say this, but if you're looking for a tablet-like laptop, I'd recommend
getting a previous generation Surface, which is about the same price, and a
vastly better device.

I'll just copy my previous comment[0] about the Chromebooks here.

I have a Samsung Chromebook Plus, and I absolutely despise it as a tablet.
Compared to my Nexus 9 (which is still kicking), it's a far inferior device.
My primary uses for my tablet are watching video and reading comics. It
manages to fail at both of those two things.

1\. No system-wide support for red-tint (aka "night mode", Flux, Twilight,
etc.)[1]

2\. Buggy rotation lock - this works very inconsistently across apps.

3\. Heavy (compared to keyboard-less tablets)

4\. Buggy soft keyboard (sometimes the soft keyboard just straight-up doesn't
work in certain apps, so I have to unfold the device from tablet mode just to
use the hardware keyboard to type).

I still use my Nexus 9 over the Chromebook Plus every time I can. When my
Nexus 9 dies, I'll probably end up getting a Surface to replace it.

[0]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17213097](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17213097)

[1] There is finally support for it on a per-user basis, but it took years for
them to introduce this. And even now, if you close your tablet and have to
unlock it again, you'll be blinded by the unlock screen.

~~~
duxup
>I only use it as a tablet replacement (watching video and reading digital
comics), and if manages to fail miserably at both of those.

As another Chromebook Plus owner I find this really surprising. I see your
list there but I'm not sure how the video and digital comics fail. I've found
it a pretty versatile device.

~~~
chimeracoder
> As another Chromebook Plus owner I find this really surprising. I see your
> list there but I'm not sure how the video and digital comics fail.

Lack of red tinting (system-wide) is a non-starter. If I'm reading late at
night, I don't want to blind myself.

The rotation lock is really buggy and app-dependent. On Android tablets, it
just works.

~~~
vatueil
Night Light works system-wide for me, including the lock screen. Samsung
Chromebook Plus, single user, stable channel. If yours is bugged, perhaps
setting a dark wallpaper background might help mitigate the issue?

The rotation lock, I can't say I've had any issues with it, but I don't think
I use the Chromebook Plus in tablet mode nearly as much as it sounds like you
do.

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ghaff
I'm somewhat torn about feature creep on Chromebooks.

On the one hand, I like Chromebooks a lot and frequently travel with a small
one.

On the other hand, as price tags creep up for the fancier models and laptop
capabilities start getting added, at some point, I wonder why not just use a
Linux laptop (or other laptop of choice). There are some tradeoffs like
battery life but it almost feels that we're recreating this sort of odd web
browser/laptop hybrid.

On still the other hand though, I suppose if an Android or Linux app gives you
that one capability you feel you can't live without on a Chromebook, what's
the harm?

~~~
Eridrus
You can't fuck up a Chromebook.

I've been using Linux distros on and off on personal and work computers for
something like 15 years, I don't really want to deal with administration for a
Linux machine unless I have to. Especially on a laptop, which like you said
has power management challenges.

I'm typing this on a corp-managed Linux laptop and I get intermittent screen
flickering that I would consider completely unacceptable from anything else.
We have corp-managed Linux desktops and those sometimes just have the entire
UI lock up if you use too much RAM. I did some Deep Learning work at home on a
Ubuntu partition and that would also have the UI freeze up sometimes until I
rebooted the computer.

~~~
frostwhale
I try to avoid using a graphical display while doing deep learning (or any gpu
intensive work). It reserves some, albeit not much, vram and while it
shouldn't cause issues like the one you're stating, it definitely can.

~~~
londons_explore
A bunch of chrome tabs can quickly use enough vram that a model which trained
fine yesterday fails today.

Sshing to the machine from another makes it far more consistent in that
regard.

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jug
It's stuff like this that is necessary to at the very least give "Linux on the
desktop" a fighting chance.

It's very welcome to me. I love where Linux has quietly got on the desktop
over the last five years, sort of below the radar during all the Windows 10
ruckus and mobile OS happenings. Something like Linux Mint or Ubuntu strangely
now feels _friendlier_ and more _fun_ than Windows (what happened there!) and
with a higher average quality "app store" too, i.e. the good old repositories
with friendly UI's. Microsoft Store is still a cesspool in many respects and
so sad to watch at times.

I think this new wave of Chromebooks will be very useful at least to me,
especially as complements to my stationary PC and smartphone, instead of a
tablet. They seem to get what it takes to be so versatile and fun to use, as a
home user and developer catching a breath after the work hours.

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simonh
My concern with this is how well such apps will integrate into the native
Chromebook environment. I don't think just being able to run arbitrary
Xwindows apps will be all that interesting outside the geek/developer
community. To be truly useful the apps need to work well with each other, with
ChromeOS services like notifications, etc. How will application storage and
file sharing, and backups be managed? How will integration with Google Drive
work?

On all these points, the details of how the user experience works really
matter. I hope Google has seriously thought all this through for once, and
isn't just throwing this in as a feature because they think it's easy. I would
actually much rather this was a custom native app framework specifically for
the Chromebook environment, than just putting in a Wayland server and calling
it done.

~~~
jacksmith21006
ChromeOS supports Wayland and the gnu/Linux applications integrate well as
they go in the app drawer.

It will be better for people new to gnu/Linux as more familiar. This will open
up use of gnu/Linux in a big way. Especially for schools in the US as the
defacto standard is Chromebooks and Google ecosystem.

Now with also Android ChromeOS becomes a great option and perfect for my
needs. Have not turned on my Mac since getting a PB.

Big thing is ChromeOS is the most secure desktop OS you can buy.

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hammerandtongs
I'd be interested but ...

4gig ram.

Nice screens, reasonable processing power but they throttle the ram to make
you want to spend the $500-750 for the "power" of.... 8 gigs of ram. But with
the bloat of a useless(to me) windows license included.

How long is the chromebook spec going to stay like this? It's awful and
holding them back.

It's nonsensical in 2018 to have this little ram on a laptop,chromebooks
included but there it is still.

~~~
pgeorgi
there are models with 8gb. with the expanded scope (android, linux), there
will be pressure to increase RAM.

Just like Android already increased the storage availability (3 years ago
people would have laughed about a chromebook with 256gb storage - what's the
point? And now there's Pixelbook)

~~~
hammerandtongs
Yes and the 8g models of chromebook (there are 2 right?) are $750+

~~~
bpye
HP Chromebook G1 goes up to 16GB with the M7 model. I have the M3 one with 4GB
RAM and it works well for me with either ChromeOS + crouton or plain Ubuntu
18.04. It should get Linux app support too, it's a fairly recent device.

EDIT: looks like you can get the M7 for <600$
[https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M29N9BR/ref=as_li_qf_sp...](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M29N9BR/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=chrome09d-20&camp=1789&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=B01M29N9BR&linkId=919eb11b3ed4a7c8f27369582806e5a2)

~~~
hammerandtongs
You know I'd rather see some of these chrome books with 8g and still in the
$300 range.

But thanks, that's actually a nice little machine.

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SN76477
I just got a chromebook plus 12 hours ago. Nifty.

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gd2
Maybe I gave up too soon, but I could not get either Android Studio or VS Code
Studio running, because of ARM. I figure those issue get solved by people who
know better than me soon.

Anyone able to point to simpler instructions on how stand up containers on
CB+?

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ams6110
I've been using Termux to run linux software on a chromebook for about a year
now.

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WindowsFon4life
Very nice.Been using the bsd/Linux support to run all my favorite Android
apps. X11 throguh xiwi is seamless and already provides the gnu/Linux apps I
need.

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paulie_a
The problem is that it is Samsung so I'm assuming they put a bunch of their
custom shit software on it.

~~~
ChrisLTD
I had one of these machines for a few days and I can assure you that Google
handles the OS side, and there is no pre-installed crapware from Samsung.

~~~
forgot-my-pw
Same goes with other Chromebooks I've used (ASUS and Acer).

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kingosticks
Is this particular Chromebook US only?

~~~
pier25
Amazon US ships it internationally, at least to my country.

~~~
kingosticks
True, but then you're stuck with a US keyboard. At least USB-C means you can
easily use your native power plug.

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shmerl
Is it VM or native support? Also, what kind of display server does it use in
such case?

~~~
jacksmith21006
Google hardened the KVM and what is used. So native instruction execution but
sandboxed.

Then the gnu/Linux applications run in containers.

So do not lose the secure aspect of Chromebooks but get native gnu/Linux.

~~~
shmerl
Do you mean it runs a whole OS in the container, or it binds application to
the host OS?

~~~
jacksmith21006
Google has created a hardened KVM that it is using. So the GNU/Linux
instruction run native on the processor but just sandboxed from the Linux
kernel used by ChromeOS.

Then they use containers between the GNU/Linux applications.

This is different than how they did Android. Android is done using the same
kernel as ChromeOS and using containers. But it is locked so can be secure.

Google implementation of GNU/Linux is going to be far more secure.

But all of this is hidden from the user. From the UI standpoint the user has
no idea what is happening under the covers. You install a GNU/Linux
application and it is added to the app drawer like an Android app or anything
else.

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hcs
Stupid question: how is this better than crouton?

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jacksmith21006
Been using the new gnu/Linux support on my PB and has been really stable and
just love it. My wife does have a CB+ I got her to replace her iPad but she
uses to play animal crossing with a stylus more than anything and not into
software development.

Finally having a big company like Google supporting gnu/Linux with a
commercial offering is a big plus. But then also get Android.

Love how they implemented as secure and separate. So containers between
gnu/Linux applications and then gnu/Linux sandboxed from ChromeOS and Android.

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jklinger410
I have heard Chrome OS is going to support Android apps and Linux apps yet
these rollouts are always so delayed and limited that it's not even worth
discussing.

Wow, 2% of the Chrome OS ecosystem now has access to something that will
barely get used and may or may not actually end up in future releases. The
Google ecosystem could not be any more fragmented.

