
Apple and Other Tech Companies Tangle with U.S. Over Data Access - jeo1234
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/08/us/politics/apple-and-other-tech-companies-tangle-with-us-over-access-to-data.html
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jackgavigan
_> Microsoft said federal officials would have to get an order from an Irish
court, because the emails were stored on servers in Dublin._

The feds are being hoisted on their own petard somewhat here, having long
argued that a foreign person's data held on a US server is subject to US
jurisdiction. The logical corrollary to that argument is that data held on an
Irish server is subject to Irish jurisdiction.

It is standard practise for companies in Europe (e.g. the bank I'm consulting
for right now) to ensure that, when they subscribe to cloud services, their
data is held stored and processed in datacentres within the EU, so that it is
subject to EU legislation and, hence, the EU's data protection laws.

~~~
ed_blackburn
> It is standard practise for companies in Europe (e.g. the bank I'm
> consulting for right now) to ensure that, when they subscribe to cloud
> services, their data is held stored and processed in datacentres within the
> EU, so that it is subject to EU legislation and, hence, the EU's data
> protection laws.

Absolutely. EU Data Protection Laws are so enshrined, I would argue that they
are part of the culture. In the UK it's part of the educational syllabus to
learn about the Data Protection Act.

If American companies cannot adhere to the act, companies will walk away from
those services. I see a lucrative market opening up for "private clouds"
whereby the requirement is, is the data "safe" is it vulnerable to American
jurisdiction?

Is there a business opportunity here to brag about 100% none American? I don't
see that being conducive to a free, open, global economy. Least of all between
two of the largest economies.

There is rule-of-law in the EU and warrants do get issued and executed. The
rabid pursuit of this by the US can only be counter productive in my mind. For
everyone.

~~~
DanBC
Health services moving to digital working pay money to have software and
services that respect privacy and that don't send data everywhere.

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harkyns_castle
Any time I read this type of article, I keep recalling what irritated the hell
out of me with the Snowden leaks and responses of US citizens. To paraphrase:
"It's terrible they're spying on US citizens (but everyone else is fair game,
geez, whack a splicer in that fibre channel asap)".

The US has reinvented the concept of borderlines on the Internet with what the
NSA/TLAs have been up to. I'd say that's a distinct step backwards.

~~~
Tloewald
The response of most US citizens has been, "Snowden?"

But then there are plenty of people on HN who should know better who are
outraged, OUTRAGED to discover the US is spying on people, but seem to have no
issues with their own and other governments spying on them. So it's ignorance
and hypocrisy all-round.

~~~
harkyns_castle
Well, all of the Five Eyes are complicit, no argument there. Certainly a top-
heavy weighting from the US though, with basically control of the net, and a
stellar budget. The peons just follow the marching orders.

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AdmiralAsshat
_“Only Congress has the institutional competence and constitutional authority
to balance law enforcement needs against our nation’s sovereignty, the privacy
of its citizens and the competitiveness of its industry.”_

What competence?

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tzs
How do these things work in the case of physical goods and documents?

For instance, suppose you and I are both US residents, residing in the US. You
loan me some item. I fail to return it and you sue me. The court orders me to
return the item to you.

If I had that item in a storage locker in Los Angeles, there is no question
that the court would have the authority to order me to retrieve that item and
turn it over to you or to the court.

Suppose, however, I have taken the item to Mexico and have it in a storage
locker there? Can I now get away with telling the court that since the item is
in Mexico, the court does not authority to order me to retrieve it (or to
order me to instruct the storage facility to retrieve it and ship it to me)?

Similar question for physical documents. For instance, if GM set up a
documents storage facility a few miles away from its headquarters, across the
border in Canada, and kept all documents not actively in use at the Canadian
facility, would they then be able to fend off document subpoenas from US
safety investigators this way?

~~~
cletus
There are two entities in question: you and the object.

You are within the jurisdiction of the U.S. And can be held in contempt,
charged (even in absentia), etc.

The object is now within the jurisdiction of Mexico so it gets complicated. A
Mexican court can be petitioned to require the entity that (unwittingly or
not) possesses it to turn it over, etc.

The difference with data Ina server is that a company has the power to turn it
over regardless of where it's stored and the U.S. Government is having their
hat on that.

By physically locating servers in other jurisdictions you have to comply with
their laws too and that gets complicated. You can end up Ina situation where
one government doesn't recognize the authority of the other and you're damned
if you do, damned if you don't.

Personally I find the constant overreach of the U.S. Government to be
appalling and entirely short term I it's thinking.

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codezero
In practical terms how much will this set back the U.S. Govt? Won't they get
rapid support from European countries and just make the process streamlined?

