

RethinkDB is hiring C/C++ engineers with irrational desire for world domination - coffeemug
http://rethinkdb.com/jobs/

======
blogimus
So from the open req page:

 _You know C/C++ like the back of your hand._

So are they looking for C _OR_ C++ programmers, either may apply? or are they
looking for strong understanding of the nuances of both C and C++?

I encounter a lot of "C/C++" on resumes and after interviewing a lot of folks,
I've grown a distaste for this joined tag. The problem is that when I see
"C/C++", I never know until I interview a candidate whether the intent is that
"C/C++" is...

1) Shorthand for I program C and I program C++ (I know both well)

2) I program C with classes. I don't really know OOP, but I fake it with big
class buckets.

3) I program in C++ and know OOP well, but I would get lost in the strict
procedural world of C.

If you don't get where I'm coming from, I've programmed in both for many
years, and I will simply say that "C and C++ are two paradigms separated by a
common language."

~~~
coffeemug
This is a great point. In this case, we mean C or C++, as long as you know
your language of choice well.

~~~
krakensden
... is your software written in both? Or you just figure if you can do one you
can learn the other?

~~~
leif
I won't speak for Slava, but I think generally the idea is that knowing either
one _well enough_ implies a certain amount of knowledge about computer guts,
which in turn implies that it shouldn't be too hard for you to learn the
other.

Technically it's in C++, though, if that helps.

~~~
mahmud
Plus it's not entirely unheard of to do the core of the application in C, and
offer a C++ API to users. There is a good reason to have both expertise
inhouse.

~~~
leif
Well, the MySQL API is C++...so....

~~~
mahmud
It says "C API" in their own manual:

<http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/c.html>

Or did you mean rethinkdb's mysql API?

~~~
leif
The plugin engine API is C++. They export a C client API, along with many
other client APIs.

EDIT: I just reread the above, and should mention that I didn't mean it to be
snarky at all. Sorry.

------
biotech
I am impressed by the inclusion of the salary chart right there in the job
posting, as an engineer who dislikes the salary negotiation game (I am
inevitably at a strategic disadvantage, playing against managers who have far
more experience at the game than I). At least this way, the engineer knows
where he/she stands.

~~~
ohashi
I thought it was even more interesting they put stock options right there too.

~~~
gruseom
Not only that, they cut straight to the chase and put the value in % of the
company.

In fact, has anyone ever seen a job post like this? I know I haven't; I'd
remember. It's highly unusual in its straightforwardness. I'd guess that's
pretty appealing to the kind of hacker they're looking for.

~~~
coffeemug
There aren't any others that I know of. Most people are incredibly secretive
about their stock options - to the point that they give you a vague absolute
number (that will likely split or merge at exit) without disclosing a
percentage. It's mathematically impossible to evaluate offers like that. "Ten
thousand shares" sounds better than 0.001%, though.

There are some very good arguments for keeping the information closed, but we
thought we'd try it. So far we've had very positive reaction, but the real
test is internal dynamics as the company grows.

~~~
gruseom
Just out of curiosity, what are the arguments that you considered for keeping
the information closed?

A somewhat related anecdote... I recall with chagrin the first startup I
joined. The CEO was a friend of mine. I kept asking him how much equity he was
offering as a percentage. He kept responding evasively by snowing me with all
sorts of dealy jargon that I didn't understand. In retrospect, of course, he
was concealing the fact that the percentage was negligible. At the time,
though, insecure in my knowledge of business, I walked away thinking that I
was a pathetic noob for having the idea that percentage was a meaningful
metric. (This guy was good at what he did, which was deceive smart but
gullible people.) That experience is one reason I like your job post. I
totally agree with the commenter who said that they hate the jockeying of the
negotiation process and would find it a relief to just know up front.

Anyway, I find your post to be an interesting experiment and I think many of
us would like to see a follow-up report on it someday.

~~~
coffeemug
Suppose you pay your top guys $100k, and a candidate comes along with about
the same level of skill and experience that you really want to hire. But he
won't join for less than $120k. At this point you either have to pass, or you
have to bump everyone else's salary. If you have ten guys, instead of paying
extra $20k, you suddenly have to pay extra $220k - a massive difference. Same
goes for stock options.

I haven't heard a good argument in favor of hiding stock option percentages -
I can't think of any other than concealing the fact that your share is
negligible.

~~~
helwr
why would you have to bump everyone else's salary? its a market, not some kind
of government job

------
ludwig
I wouldn't want to apply there. My desires for world domination are entirely
rational.

------
maxklein
"Introduction to Algorithms by Cormen and Leiserson is your trusty friend."

I have this in my bookshelf. Every time I walk by, I can feel it gloating at
me with a smug expression. The rare times I make eye-contact with it, it seems
to say "Want some more? Come on back, I've got more, I'll teach you another
lesson!"

~~~
coffeemug
This book is like toothpaste - no matter how long you use it for, you can
always squeeze more out of it. There should be a theorem of some kind about
that.

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alexgartrell
I think I might be somewhat representative of the target audience for interns
(maybe), so here's my two cents

    
    
      - Really cool stuff.  Anything heavily concurrent in C is just cool.  
        Highlighting that even more is going to get you more of the right 
        kinds of candidates IMHO.
      - Call for interns in the fall.  Offers start going out for 
        internships in the late fall and early winter.
      - The world domination stuff is hokey.  Every company is feeding 
        us this stuff.
      - Do interns get free housing?  What are the perks?
      - Your pay for interns is very standard (which is a good thing).
    

But seriously, very cool ad.

~~~
coffeemug
Thanks for your feedback, we'll incorporate it into the jobs page. To answer
some points here, we do not arrange housing for the interns (you can probably
crash our place until you find a sublet, and we can put interns in contact
with each other so they can self-organize). We didn't completely define the
perks yet, but it'll be pretty standard stuff.

I agree that the world domination stuff is hokey, but it's catchy and it grabs
people's attention, so it serves its purpose pretty well.

If in doubt, apply! We're pretty flexible when it comes to the details.

------
plinkplonk
This is the kind of job description that I wish someone in India would
advertise. The job boards hereabouts are full of the outsourced "maintain
legacy enterprise systems" crap jobs.

No I am not looking for a job [1], but this ad crystallized what I miss in the
Indian sw/startup ecosystem. Too many people building db backed websites -
clones of successful western products. Not much hardcore tech.

Devs in the USA are lucky to a degree they aren't aware of.

(Mildly) depressed.

And as for jobs with upfront info about salaries/equity, we can only dream.

[1] I am working on a cutting edge (non startup) project that involves a lot
of Machine Learning and algorithmic complexity. If I were to advertise I could
mostly cut and paste this ad - replace DB internals with Machine Learning -
but this is _very_ , very rare in India and I know a lot of talented devs who
would give a great deal to be able to apply for such jobs without going
through visa hassles and so on.

~~~
Aegean
Which job sites in india are you using?

Recently I put a cutting-edge, hardcore (low-level, C, cpu architecture, smp,
concurrency type job) startup job post to Naukri and I only seem to get
mediocre responses.

I believe it's a two sided issue, there aren't that many talented people or as
the saying goes, those that are talented have already moved to western
countries.

I really really would like to find talented people from India but it doesn't
seem that easy.

~~~
signa11
would you mind providing your contact information (didn't seem to find
anything in your profile). i am in india, with approx the skill-set you are
looking for, and am on the fence w.r.t the job scene (our company just got
bought by a large networking company)

~~~
Aegean
I couldn't find any on yours either. We're not hiring right now but please
contact me on bahadir@l4dev.org and lets keep in touch.

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antirez
I'm pretty excited by the fact that in the DB scene there are also new players
in the closed source side. If we want to make sure that in the end we'll have
the best solutions I guess different economic and _development_ models should
compete as well, not only technology. For instance if I remember correctly
MySQL initially started as a closed source product.

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david927
And if you know C++ and would like to beat these guys for world domination in
a co-founder role, contact me. My email is in my profile.

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Rauchg
I thought there were 3 cofounders, now listing only 2. Is my memory serving me
right?

~~~
bkudria
Leif went back to finish his degree.

~~~
leif
This is true.

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swah
Who would say..

~~~
swah
C++ is the language du jour again!

~~~
queensnake
Actually I can see a future for it as energy gets more expensive (it's more
efficient), and people, cheaper.

