
Google Has Dropped Ban on Personally Identifiable Web Tracking - scribu
https://www.propublica.org/article/google-has-quietly-dropped-ban-on-personally-identifiable-web-tracking
======
omouse
The marketers and advertisers have finally won. Google hasn't been an
engineering company for the last 5 years maybe, but this confirms it. It's
like Facebook, they're beholden to the non-developers and non-software
engineers who frankly don't care about other people's privacy and only see the
dollar bills.

So glad I'm evaluating other email providers and use Privoxy for ad-blocking.

~~~
blowski
This isn't a neat split along the lines of "All developers good, all marketers
bad". What has won here is the pressure to grow, and the acceptance of society
and governments to let them do it by any means. We are all complicit in this.

~~~
pmyjavec
True, it's time to make a change and start educating family and friends about
this issue and the alternatives.

I always believed Google was successful because it was pushed and advocated
for by geeks, I feel that those days are coming to an end.

I use DDG and I think it's a pretty solid alternative, although it requires a
little more effort when looking for certain things. Non-tech types have been
curious about why I don't use Google, they seem to be getting the tracking is
not good thing.

~~~
jacquesm
> I always believed Google was successful because it was pushed and advocated
> for by geeks, I feel that those days are coming to an end.

Those days ended the day Google went public, and quite possibly well before
then.

~~~
guelo
I think the change happened when Eric Schmidt left and Larry Page gave his
"more wood behind fewer arrows" speech, which meant engineers down product
managers up.

~~~
yuhong
Maybe, but I want more details on what exactly is happening though.

------
0xmohit
Earlier:

    
    
      We will not combine DoubleClick cookie information with your
      personally identifiable information unless we have your opt-in
      consent.
    

Now:

    
    
      Depending on your account settings, your activity on other
      sites and apps may be associated with your personal information
      in order to improve Google's services and the ads delivered by
      Google.
    

So opt-in becomes opt-out.

~~~
runeb
To opt out, or "Pause" as Google is tellingly calling it, from the article:

    
    
       To opt-out of Google’s identified tracking, visit the
       Activity controls[1] on Google’s My Account page, and
       uncheck the box next to “Include Chrome browsing history
       and activity from websites and apps that use Google
       services." You can also delete past activity from your
       account.
    

[1]
[https://myaccount.google.com/activitycontrols](https://myaccount.google.com/activitycontrols)

~~~
e40
Mine was already unchecked.

~~~
dminor
Mine was unchecked but the same settings on my phone were on.

------
dredmorbius
I'd just like to draw people's attention to a little bit of conflict-of-
interest research some Stanford University researchers published a few years
ago:

 _Currently, the predominant business model for commercial search engines is
advertising. The goals of the advertising business model do not always
correspond to providing quality search to users. For example, in our prototype
search engine one of the top results for cellular phone is "The Effect of
Cellular Phone Use Upon Driver Attention", a study which explains in great
detail the distractions and risk associated with conversing on a cell phone
while driving. This search result came up first because of its high importance
as judged by the PageRank algorithm, an approximation of citation importance
on the web [Page, 98]. It is clear that a search engine which was taking money
for showing cellular phone ads would have difficulty justifying the page that
our system returned to its paying advertisers. For this type of reason and
historical experience with other media [Bagdikian 83], we expect that
advertising funded search engines will be inherently biased towards the
advertisers and away from the needs of the consumers._

[http://infolab.stanford.edu/~backrub/google.html](http://infolab.stanford.edu/~backrub/google.html)

~~~
pyrophane
This really is an important point.

Somehow in this new age of technology companies we have forgotten that
corporations, in the long run, will always converge on what is most
profitable, regardless of the values of their founding team, who will
eventually retire or have their influence diminished.

For that reason, I always pay more attention to a company's incentives than I
do what they say about values. If a company derives the vast majority of their
income showing me targeted ads, I can expect that that will take priority over
any notion of privacy, and we all know that privacy is the bane of targeted
advertising. Unless there is some seismic shift in Google's core business in
the next several years, we should only expect more moves like this.

And as we head into the new era of "intelligent personal assistants," let's
keep in mind which companies are pushing this most aggressively: two ad
companies and one that wants us to make it easier (perhaps even not a
conscious activity?) to buy things from them. It does not take a lot of
imagination to see what these assistants are most interested in assisting us
with.

That's why, for all of the valid criticisms of them, I still use Apple
products. I'm just more comfortable with their incentives, which are, as of
now, mostly to sell me shiny new hardware. Sure, this has led them to do some
things that annoy me like lock down their iMessage platform so I can't use it
to communicate with my Android-using friends. Still I'll take that sort of
behavior over a wholesale disregard for my privacy.

~~~
dredmorbius
Someday someone should write a modern Faust based on Brin and Page.

Yes. Incentives matter. Google thought they could ride the tiger. The tiger's
riding them.

------
atrilumen
> “Some new features for your Google account.”

Oh, yeah, I remember that. I totally clicked "Ok, whatever."

How does one not be herded like cattle by the corporations, without making a
full time job of resisting it?

~~~
wincy
Well, my wife and I just ordered dumb phones and an AWS 2FA key fob (remember
those?) which will be here this weekend, we're selling all our screens except
one family PC. I sold off my Oculus Rift and gaming PC a month ago. We're
going to have to buy a flashlight, GPS or maybe just a map book, calculator, a
CD player, a Blu-Ray burner, a day planner, a wristwatch, a kitchen timer, get
a library card, a shared calendar on the wall, and we'll go from there. I'm
excited but also nervous about it. A few months ago I spent 90% of my free
time staring at a screen. I yelled at my wife if god forbid she wanted to
spend time with me and not just shut up and watch whatever video game I was
playing.

I figure it's a start.

~~~
arkitaip
I admire your dedication and would be interested in hearing more about your
experiment in the future. Maybe some kind of update in the future here on HN?

~~~
wincy
Thanks for the kind words. I was with a group of developers in person last
night and mentioned this plan casually and was amazed by how many questions
everyone had. I'm start to feel like this disconnect is, paradoxically, going
to result in me spending more time on social media talking about and setting
up meetup groups with like minded people. I don't want to bury my head in the
sand, and I'm not a Luddite – I just want to be more intentional about how I'm
spending my time and go to sleep happy with how I've spent my day.

HN was a big part of the inspiration [0] and the few articles I've read about
Tristan Harris have filled me with a desire to reclaim my life. We're in sort
of a planning stage right now and are realizing there's quite a few things
we're going to have to buy, which seems intimidating, but it'll be nice that
my egg timer or flashlight won't become out of date in a few years. I was
looking at a wristwatch [1] I feel embodies how I'm feeling I should live life
lately. It seems a little silly at first but it really struck me as a
timepiece that makes a particular statement.

We don't form memories of what life was like at 12:07 PM or 12:09 PM, at most
we need to know the general time of day. I feel like even the exact time of
day might be too much information. I've started checking email at work once a
day and disabled the always visible clock in OSX and have yet to have any
issues with this. If someone really needs me real time they'll come talk to me
or send me a message on Slack.

I'm thinking about blogging about my experience, but it feels like that might
be against the spirit of what I'm trying to accomplish. Then again blogging is
a different sort of communication than writing 144 character responses, and
may be appropriate to get the word out.

[0]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12678325](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12678325)
[1] [https://www.slow-watches.com/](https://www.slow-watches.com/)

~~~
keyboardhitter
Sharing your experience is a great idea. But I can see your concern with
blogging it. Maybe just write in a physical notebook instead?

------
whistlerbrk
A recent podcast (TAL? Radiolab?) just discussed the retreats Google has made
over time with respect to privacy and intrusive advertising. I tried to find
it - someone have a link? This very much continues the theme. It is important
to note how much Sergey and Larry hated advertising and the belief they held
that any advertising based search engine would inherently corrupt itself.

~~~
quest88
[http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/10/17/498...](http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/10/17/498237314/how-
free-web-content-traps-people-in-an-abyss-of-ads-and-clickbait)

They say what your last sentence said, so I'm guessing this is the podcast
you're thinking of.

------
agentgt
I'm curious what bothers people most about the privacy issues?

Strangely I don't care that Google (and others) know about me. I probably
should but I have just sorted have accepted the lack of privacy today.

What really bothers me isn't the privacy its them using that data to create a
completely unfair advantage to continue the oligopoly that is quickly
consuming all markets.

I used to be such a capitalist but as of the last few years watching what
companies will continue to do to not just grow but grow exponentially with
unfair and unethical leverage in every direction.

I'm curious if others share that feeling or is that just me. Or is it just
invasion of privacy?

~~~
frabcus
I do too.

People tend to want decentralised alternatives partly for privacy, partly for
competition, partly for resilience (hurricanes, wars).

Lots of arts people I speak too also talk about cultural diversity - the lack
of competition is part of that.

Capitalism has always been regulated. More than 10% of any market used to mean
a monopoly. It should still.

There's nothing wrong with capitalism. What's wrong is the weird idea that a
democratic state shouldn't/doesn't regulate it to stop extreme outcomes.

I run Redecentralize which is where I've got the needs from
[http://redecentralize.org/about/](http://redecentralize.org/about/)

~~~
dredmorbius
Do you have a reference on that 10% = monopoly definition?

------
mikeleeorg
For people who didn't read the article but want to opt out of this tracking:

 _To opt-out of Google’s identified tracking, visit the Activity controls on
Google’s My Account page, and uncheck the box next to “Include Chrome browsing
history and activity from websites and apps that use Google services. " You
can also delete past activity from your account._

Links from that paragraph:

* Activity controls: [https://myaccount.google.com/activitycontrols](https://myaccount.google.com/activitycontrols)

* My account page: [https://myaccount.google.com/](https://myaccount.google.com/)

* Delete past activity: [https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/465](https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/465)

------
fencepost
Looking at the My Activity details is actually pretty creepy. Starting today
working backwards, Google includes "Used Phone," "Used [my launcher],"
"contacted [messaging site]," "Used [alarm clock app]," several overnight
repeats of the messaging site when I received alerts, my Chrome-based website
visits from yesterday, my foray into Android Settings yesterday, etc.

It all serves to make me happy that I'm using Firefox with uMatrix as my daily
driver, and only use Chrome (with uBlock Origin) for the rare things that I
can't get to load properly because of all the cross-site dependencies.

~~~
xgbi
Using firefox? Did you tick "Send analysis data to Mozilla"? If yes, Mozilla
has the very same information about your browsing habits and all clicks and
actions you performed in Firefox too.

It's just that Google shows it to you, rather than not telling you anything.

Any sufficiently big Android/iOS app has the very same system in place so that
they can see what people are doing with their app and anticipate interesting
features, down to the location of your finger when you touched that button,
the wifis you were seeing at the time, the battery level etc.

Admitedly though, Google has such a wide reach in all your day-to-day life
that they gather an immense amount of data.

But don't be fooled, anyone else is also doing it. And they are far less open
about it.

~~~
windlep
> Using firefox? Did you tick "Send analysis data to Mozilla"? If yes, Mozilla
> has the very same information about your browsing habits and all clicks and
> actions you performed in Firefox too.

That is blatantly false. The policy page here describes what is sent for each
data feature in Firefox:

[https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/privacy/firefox/](https://www.mozilla.org/en-
US/privacy/firefox/)

Mozilla does not have tracking cookies scattered through-out the web tracking
you. Google via Google Ad's and Doubleclick does (as does Facebook via their
social features).

Neither the Chrome browser nor Firefox sends "your browsing habits and all
clicks and actions you performed" to their respective companies. If you turn
on History sync, the clients encrypt all this data before uploading.

Disclaimer: I work at Mozilla.

edit: Chrome _can_ send all history unencrypted to Google if you ask it to,
under Privacy Checkup, Web & Web App Activity: "Include Chrome browsing
history and activity from websites and apps that use Google services".
Supposedly this is to make the search more relevant. This was unchecked for me
by default though.

~~~
kuschku
> Chrome can send all history unencrypted to Google if you ask it to, under
> Privacy Checkup, Web & Web App Activity: "Include Chrome browsing history
> and activity from websites and apps that use Google services". Supposedly
> this is to make the search more relevant. This was unchecked for me by
> default though

Starting today, that is on by default, and existing users get a screen asking
them to enable it – I just got it pushed to my Android phone, asking me to
enable that.

------
mtgx
Google seems no better than Facebook when it comes to privacy, and I'm not
just talking about how far they're willing to go in tracking users, but also
how they are willing to _lie_ and violate their users' trust so they can
collect more data.

Facebook is now getting into trouble in the EU for breaking their promise
about not sharing WhatsApp data, and yet Google still goes ahead and does
this. I hope the European Commission adds this as one more charge against
Google.

Without real enforcement the companies will continue to do whatever the hell
they want.

~~~
rahrahrah
And when that happens every American on HN will go "look at that old crusty
EU, getting in the way of progress again with their bloated regulations".

~~~
skummetmaelk
The free market fallacy.

~~~
rahrahrah
I'm starting to hate the word "fallacy". What's the free market fallacy? The
idea that not everything that's driven by free market is great? Why call that
a fallacy, why not just call it being wrong?

~~~
skummetmaelk
A fallacy is really any argument that is wrong because of wrong assumptions or
faulty logic, but leads to a believable result anyway. The free market fallacy
is a fallacy because people who believe the free market solves problems base
this claim on the assumption that human beings are rational and have access to
all information.

------
rdslw
Cool.

Yes they deliberatly block chrome extension on mobile chrome, as then ublock
usage on mobile would explode. Together with myth of mobile ads.

Do not evil. Riiiight. As long as it does not hamper our profit.

~~~
Kenji
On mobile, rooting and using a hosts file to block malicious/ad domains is
better anyway.

~~~
kuschku
If you root, you won’t be able to use Android Pay (an advertised feature of
the device) anymore due to the recent changes to SafetyNet that now trigger if
even the bootloader isn’t locked.

~~~
Kenji
Well, we have root access. Can't we completely stump and destroy this stupid
safety net? This should have a very high priority for anyone who cares about
open smartphone systems.

There should be a safety net remover that simply strips all safety net API
calls off a program and inserts all valid flags by default.

~~~
kuschku
The issue is the way it happens.

SafetyNet actually sends its results to a Google server, which validates that
they’re properly signed, and then sends a message to the backend of the app.

The only way to successfully break it is by emulating or replacing SafetyNet
on the device, but as part of it runs in TrustZone, that’s not easily
possible.

------
rmc
This is why we need the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union.
Article 8 covers personal data, and can blocks things like this.

------
solveforall
[Disclaimer: shameless plug, and also previously announced as a Show HN a
while back]

I would like to mention my search engine as another privacy-focused
alternative: [https://solveforall.com/](https://solveforall.com/)

1) Does not track user activity. Hosted in Canada. 2) Does not leak referrer
to visited sites 3) No ads. Will be considering affiliate links, a paid API,
and/or "good" ads -- ads people want that don't compromise privacy 4)
Integrated feed reader which also provides search results 5) Activation codes
(like DDG bangs, so ?g instead of !g) 5) Plugins written in JS/data to be
searched can be added at any time. 6) Deep search -- get results from the
search results page of several sites at a time. Try
[https://solveforall.com/answers.do?q=rx+480&client.kind=web&...](https://solveforall.com/answers.do?q=rx+480&client.kind=web&type=answers&engines=107&depth=1)

There clearly a lot more work to be done, and I plan on open sourcing this
soon, but please try it out and let me know any feedback you have!

~~~
drawnwren
The UI on the left side could use some work. I followed your link, search for
Ars Technica and then spent about a minute trying to figure out why it was
showing me electronics. Everything feels just a bit too large and control
information should probably all be above the page (at least a summary.)

~~~
solveforall
Excellent feedback, thank you! I will work on this.

------
feelix
I use google and have chosen to give up a lot of my privacy to use their
services.

One thing I was never willing to do though, and I had an instant emotional
reaction to _not_ doing, was allowing them access to all my email.

They can have my GPS coordinates at all times, my web search history, etc, but
they can't get into the inner workings of my life and my thoughts.

So back before I had any real use for it I just registered
myname@myfirstandlastname.com and used that for my email address. It felt like
a natural move. It does bother me still that a lot of the people I email do
use gmail, so google still ends up siphoning of a lot of the contents of my
email.

I see a lot of people talking about FastMail instead of GMail, but I don't
know why more geeks don't register their own domain name which has several
advantages (including looking better and more professional). The one downside
is that mail search sucks. I'd love to get some decent search without giving
up privacy somehow.

~~~
ocdtrekkie
FastMail has incredibly good domain name configuration for custom domains. I
just set it up this week. The problem is most users don't have the skill or
time to manage a well-maintained email service. I'd like to, but the risk of
losing important email is too critical to risk. (Even making the cutover to
FastMail, I was super nervous!) And unlike Google, FastMail has a strong
privacy strategy.

But what I did do, about a year ago, was move my email usage over to an
address at my own domain, which was then forwarded to Gmail. By lessening the
references to my Gmail account, it made it easy to switch elsewhere. ...I just
repointed my domain to FastMail's email service.

And because I control the domain name people send email to me on, it's easy
for me to move it again in the future if I have a problem with FastMail or
find something better.

------
barnassey
More and more changes that do not bode well for google, first they changed it
to where they can track what numbers you dial, then they tried that with your
google chrome history and tabs if you synced it to your account and now this?
People wondered why i stopped being a google evangelist after 2014.

~~~
mikeleeorg
Do you, or anyone else here, know of a good, privacy-conscious personal
information management system? Other than Google, Yahoo, Microsoft, or Apple?

Having a system that manages such critical info in a seamless way is huge. I'm
acutely aware that free services are not truly "free," so if there is a good
alternative that has a reasonable premium subscription plan, I would seriously
consider it.

~~~
barnassey
No the thing is i've had to learn all of this the hard way. using opera with a
custom sync phrase, as well as using the opt-out addons that google provides.
Canvas blocker, Ublock origin, and cleanlinks to get rid of the UTM strings on
links. Oh and not using chrome whatsoever.

------
urda
This is yet another reminder that it's important, especially for HN readers,
to continue to give support to groups such as Mozilla and their Firefox
platform. The more widespread Google and Chrome usage is, the more Google can
push these changes with little to no resistance.

~~~
oridecon
I wish I could pay Mozilla to host my custom domain e-mail, encrypted files
and any other services they could offer

------
betolink
Just to give you and idea of how big of a deal this is, go to
[https://myactivity.google.com/myactivity](https://myactivity.google.com/myactivity)
and check what third parties could learn from you, with your name on it.

------
eveningcoffee
Like I have told under other similar discussions. Something in ToS has no
relevance if data is collected. If data is collected then it will eventually
be used (against you).

~~~
j_s
That's a good point: is this change retroactive (will old data be associated)?

~~~
falcolas
Consider the path of least resistance - is it easier to just take one action
across data, or multiple actions based on data age, user opt-in, and EULAs?
Engineers are lazy, after all, and it's fairly easy to change an EULA.

------
snarf
Does anyone know the specifics of Google's privacy practices for G Suite
(formerly Google Apps for business)? They claim no advertising, but do they
use your data for anything else, and do they still build shadow profiles? If
you're already buying 1 TB of storage for Google Drive, then you can instead
sign up for the $10 month G Suite plan and get 1 TB of storage with ad free
versions of their apps.

~~~
jasonvorhe
It says so in their TOS, but if you're wearing your tinfoil hat you have no
reason to believe that they're honest about that.

------
throw2016
I think duckduckgo often becomes an alternative that isn't an alternative, in
the sense yes its there, you are frustrated with Google's behavior and you
persist for a whole day and then have to revert back to Google with tail
behind legs so it's more of an alternative in name.

With the sheer scope of Google properties there is always going to be a
tempation for 'value searchers' within the organization to give in to dark
patterns and compromise users. I have been trying Yandex search and email and
its fairly decent. Email is good, search appears to be a much more serious
offering compared to duckduckgo but still some way to go.

However we need diversity and decentralization to prevent concentration and
inevitable abuse of power.

~~~
pmyjavec
To be honest DuckDuckGo is fine, you just need to put a little extra effort
in. I'll admit it takes some getting used to but I happily use it now.

Also as others have stated the 'sp!' bang is handy.

~~~
icebraining
StartPage is a mystery to me; they say they're "enhanced by Google", but what
does Google get out of providing their search results to a competitor?

~~~
singularity2001
Also heard rumors about StartPage being very shady. Would be nice to get some
confirmation on this or to learn that it was only a campaign by competitors.
Google for "StartPage malware" ;)

------
vonklaus
I expect google will experience outages >15 minutes for core services in the
comung months. This is based on significant uptick in ddos sophistication,
this has been referenced by Schneier-- although not in ref to Goog.

If changes like this announcement convince people to move away; I am all for
it. This just proves not only their power, but the danger of a single point of
failure.

~~~
honkhonkpants
That is the opposite of my prediction. I predict that as ddos attacks become
larger and more sophisticated, only Google and a handful of other huge
operators will be left standing.

~~~
john_reel
Realistically, if it reaches that point, why wouldn’t the first response be
action on the part of ISP and backbone providers? I get that right now it
would be extremely difficult and expensive, but at a point where DDoS has a
significant effect on the market share of a company like Google, I feel like
something would have to be done.

~~~
vonklaus
> why wouldn’t the first response be action on the part of ISP and backbone
> providers?

Schneier points out that these have the shape of probing attacks and are
executed across multifaceted services at the micro & macro level. I feel like
something _needs_ to be done now. There is, I am sure, a fix but with
something like Dyn and other major cloud management, infrastructure, ISP and
backbone companies are getting seriously worked over. There is a saturation
point.

The attackers have capabilities to hit so many different pieces of exposed
surface area, that for small networks/apps/services/companies they are unable
to be repelled. In between small companies and Google tier service, some can
repel attacks, but they still cede some uptime and performance.

Cloudflare has released some insane reports and when you have motivated
powerful attackers striking key pieces of core internet infrastructure, to
some extent, you have to consider the entire system is under hostile attack.

> but at a point where DDoS has a significant effect on the market share of a
> company like Google

I am certainly a layman here, but none of the targets made a choice today to
be vulnerable. I am sure the entire chain is rapidly reinvesting and hardening
the infrastructure, but this should have probably been done years ago. In
between when the companies are pouring resources out (I suspect they are now)
and when they gain enough of an understanding to withstand these attacks,
there will be downtime. I think google will get hit soon. It was reported that
a google core outage of ~15 minutes deadzoned about 40% of America's internet
traffic. Even knocking google out for ~1-2 hours would show 2008 what too big
to fail means. If google DNS, Chrome, google search, gmail, google apps,
hosting, dns, ISP all activities ceased for 2 hours things would get bad.

------
ams6110
I've already stopped using Chrome on my computers and phone. Getting pretty
close to dropping them into my hosts file.

------
CommanderData
Is it enough to install adblock on the router level? This would in theory
block all domains tracking and serving adverts.

~~~
0xmohit
You could also try
[https://github.com/StevenBlack/hosts](https://github.com/StevenBlack/hosts)
to block ads. Quoting from the description:

    
    
      Extending and consolidating hosts files from a variety of
      sources like adaway.org, mvps.org, malwaredomains.com,
      someonewhocares.org, yoyo.org, and potentially others. You can
      optionally invoke extensions to block additional sites by
      category.

~~~
CommanderData
Great to see an updated hosts file. I've and others have been saying, routers
need an easier configuration method. Preferably through an app and common API
across firmware and manufacturers.

------
Animats
Log out of Google. Now. And delete all their cookies. Consider deleting your
Google account. Put your mail on an IMAP server. Your ISP probably offers one.

(I don't use a Google account. My last login to Google was in 2015, and that
was to update a browser add-on.)

~~~
jasonvorhe
Your ISP probably offers the most basic mail setup you can build with the
lowest effort. Your ISP as no reason to give a world class mail service
because that's not something they're good at or that they could make money
from. It's just one something they think is expected nowadays. I don't think
this is wise advice from a privacy point of view, considering your ISP knows
all your internet habits including all your connections to any service you'll
ever use and that most ISPs don't have your interests in mind.

------
pinewurst
Isn't Google moving aggressively to fingerprint-based browser tracking instead
of cookies?

~~~
rahrahrah
Possibly, but even right now when you open Chrome (non-incognito) you
immediately get three google analytics cookies set, which are picked up by any
website using google analytics (i.e. almost every website). If you put this
together with the fact that Chrome knows about Google Account sessions, you
conclude that Google is already keeping track of everything that you, as an
individual, does online and has been for many years, even without
fingerprinting.

~~~
pinewurst
I was thinking of the non-logged-in Google accounts with ad blocker case not
being privacy protecting any more.

------
forsberg
So there are a lot of talk about using DuckDuckGo instead of Google but I'm
wondering if anyone have considered using Bing as a middle ground?

Sure they track you but in my understanding they actually suck at it. :)

------
forgotpwtomain
> If you want to permanently opt out of the DoubleClick cookie, you can
> install the DoubleClick opt out extension.

------
yason
I sometimes wonder if why it is generally held that marketing sucks and
advertisements are evil because they're so random, badly targeted and thus
crappy.

I basically wouldn't mind seeing advertisements if they were relevant and spot
on. And that probably hasn't been possible until all that big data is cross-
indexed with user identities.

It may be that ads are considered bad because good ads happen once in a
thousand.

------
awqrre
You have to be logged-in for the opt-out to be effective... so now they know
exactly who you are...

------
a3n
Don't be evil. Not all at once.

------
JumpCrisscross
Does this apply to paid accounts', _e.g._ businesses', data?

------
c_r_w
That's weird. I guess they like making money.

------
philprx
Bait and switch?

------
qwerty1234567
google.com

------
yuhong
Also recommend that you read
[https://plus.google.com/104092656004159577193/posts/Bo88vgre...](https://plus.google.com/104092656004159577193/posts/Bo88vgre8Nw)
, particularly the comments.

------
yuhong
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12483805](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12483805)

I was trying to figure out what was happening.

~~~
danieldk
[https://www.google.com/policies/privacy/archive/](https://www.google.com/policies/privacy/archive/)

------
gjolund
What are the best alternative email services with a privacy focus?

~~~
milcron
Maybe not the answer you were looking for, but self-hosting email can be a fun
challenge.

Lavabit had a privacy focus and look what happened to them.

~~~
gjolund
That is what I was thinking.

Right now I am debating an on premise email server or something on aws.

------
rahrahrah
That diff in the article, does anyone know where it comes from?

~~~
manigandham
Google offers it themselves:
[https://www.google.com/policies/privacy/archive/](https://www.google.com/policies/privacy/archive/)

Click on "comparison" to see the changes between versions.

------
RodericDay
When I read announcements like these I actually get a bit hopeful. These
companies seem somewhat scared, and their funding bases more fragile than they
let on.

------
ommunist
As for now, there is no viable alternative to Google. There is no distributed,
free independent search engine that provides such quality relevant search
results as Google, and is caring for users privacy.

I do not think either it is financially possible to run such a thing, without
someone's vested interest in metadata behind such possible endeavour. There is
silent demand for such an effort however.

UPD: I know about DuckDuckGo, but look:
[https://www.netmarketshare.com/search-engine-market-
share.as...](https://www.netmarketshare.com/search-engine-market-
share.aspx?qprid=4&qpcustomd=1)

