
Reddit bans /r/deepfakes - Hello71
https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/7vxzrb/update_on_sitewide_rules_regarding_involuntary/
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manfredo
Reddit is a private organization that can obviously decide what they do or
don't allow on their site.

That said I am still interested in if the images created by this technology
are challenged legally. The adult actors created and released these videos
with their consent (presumably), and the facial reconstruction of the
celebrities are usually drawn from public sources (Facebook, Instagram, news
articles).

Could they claim copyright on these videos? It's hard to argue that they
aren't transformative.

Supposedly some are challenged on the grounds of defamation or slander,
claiming that these images are falsely claiming that celebrities performed
these sex acts. However, this seems like a very weak claim given that many of
the places hosting these images are transparent about the fact that they are
fabricated.

This specific application of the technology isn't something I care that much
about, but I think it has the potential to set significant precedent about
what sorts of derivative works are permissible with technology that can create
fake media that is increasingly hard to distinguish from reality.

~~~
gus_massa
It's probably illegal, but IAMAL.

It's easy to imagine an equivalent with software:

You can't buy a copy of Windows(R)(TM)(C) and make some patching (or
DeepPatching) to change the icons and background and some of the txt, and then
release/sell it. Even if Windows was released voluntarily by Microsoft. Even
if you use photos of celebrities instead of icons.

[You neither can't modify Linux and release it with another license, like a
proprietary license, BSD, GPL3, ... It also has a very specific license.]

The actors/directors/whatever released the videos with a license, that
probably doesn't allow redistribution and modifications. I'm not sure about
the license of the photos in Facebook/Instagram, but the photos in newspaper
usually have a restrictive copyright.

Perhaps there is a loophole using very old videos, and old photos, but ...
IANAL.(Wikipedia says something about 1923, the Mickey Mouse video was made in
1928 and still is under copyright.)

~~~
YeGoblynQueenne
>> It's probably illegal, but IAMAL.

Sorry- "IAMAL" or "IANAL"?

~~~
gus_massa
Definitively not a lawyer. Sorry for the typo.

~~~
YeGoblynQueenne
Thanks for clarifying!

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orf
Still haven't banned the_donald though, despite breaking far more rules than
deepfakes.

~~~
kaixi
Which rules have they broken?

~~~
SippinLean
[https://np.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/7a4bjo/time_f...](https://np.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/7a4bjo/time_for_my_quarterly_inquisition_reddit_ceo_here/dp6youa/)

>Many of these links are probably in violation of our policy

\--spez

~~~
kaixi
> Generally the mods of the_donald have been cooperative when we approach them
> with systematic abuses. Typically we ban entire communities only when the
> mods are uncooperative or the entire premise of the community is in
> violation of our policies. In the past we have removed mods of the_donald
> that refuse to work with us.

~~~
orf
> I don't accept that excuse. These were gathered by searching for phrases
> that should be included in their AutoModerator config. These calls for
> violence are mod enabled.

[https://www.reddit.com/r/RightAgainstTrump/wiki/violence](https://www.reddit.com/r/RightAgainstTrump/wiki/violence)

~~~
m00g00
Clearly the CEO of reddit feels the mods of r/the_donald have done a
reasonable job at policing their sub overall, despite having missed a handful
of extremely lowly upvoted comments.

Do you suggest the AutoModerator filter for words like "hang", "kill",
"shoot"? Why not implement that site wide? I'm sure that would go over well
with the rest of reddit.

~~~
hrktb
What pisses people off is how spez (reddit's CEO) is dancing around the fact
that for a reason or another he can't/doesn't just punish a misbehaving
subreddit while other borderline subreddits otherwise very cooperative but way
smaller get shut down regularily.

It's a bit like how kids in a class get away with sticking gums two or three
times on their desks "because they were quick to remove it" when other kids
have their parents called the first time they bring a circuit board to school.

Reddit does what it wants, that's their platform. It just looks terrible on
the face of it.

~~~
m00g00
Agreed, reddit's ban hammer is often arbitrary and self-serving and
r/the_donald drives too much traffic to reddit for them to seriously consider
it for them (even more so with Twitter and @realDonaldTrump)

Admins should contemplate banning less, and users on all sides should chill on
demanding it for subs they don't like. No one forces you to go to a sub, and
you can even filter them from the front page without extensions now.

But live-and-let-live is not particularly in-vogue these days. As in this
submission, the top post is (nothing to do with topic) "Why isn't this other
sub also banned hmmm???"

~~~
orf
> and r/the_donald drives too much traffic to reddit for them to seriously
> consider it for them

Ehh, it's not that, the sub is not really that active outside of a core group.
Their user base isn't that involved either, none of the polls they post get
any traction (that's why they stopped posting them) and for the most part
frontpage posts get like 60-100 comments (unless it's a 'big' story). So it's
not the traffic for sure, no matter how much they want to delude themselves
about the 10 million invisible subs or whatever.

It's the press. Because like it or not they would be making a pretty big
political statement by banning the sub, the main 'supporters club' for the
currently sitting US president. Whatever ban reason will be picked apart and
spun by either side of the press and the whole thing will become a big
unmanageable mess, which is not something anyone would want to trigger. Better
to wait it out until, for whatever reason, he's no longer the president. At
that point I'm sure the rules regarding death threats, racism and witch
hunting will be enforced a bit less leniently.

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shostack
Outside of the main use case right now, I hope this technology continues to be
developed and made more user friendly.

I'm looking forward to the day when scanning you and your friends faces into a
cool movie or game is commonplace.

Yes there are concerns that need to be addressed, but I hope we don't throw
the baby out with the bathwater.

To that end, is anyone aware of any projects for movies or gaming that are
taking this approach? I know it is already a thing for high budget Hollywood
movies... I'm more interested in it becoming consumer friendly.

~~~
manfredo
Rainbow six Vegas had the ability to scan your face onto the player model.
Results were less than impressive (but often hilarious)

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pitaa
Tom Scott made a good video talking about this tech:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCLaeBAkFAY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCLaeBAkFAY)

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ggg9990
Does anyone know where this community has migrated to? I know they were
setting it up last week expecting to get banned.

~~~
drdeadringer
You could try Voat.

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IntronExon
Reading down into the comments is quite disturbing. The official stand on
underage posts (which are not obviously cp) seems to amount to, “If it’s a
picture of you, report it.”

Reddit is almost comically morally bankrupt.

~~~
GhostVII
Maybe they are just trying to reduce their liability. Once they start actively
policing content that isn't flagged, they will be held responsible whenever
something gets on the site that shouldn't. If their policy is to only review
content that was reported, it's much easier from their end, and they don't
have to start making as many decisions about what is OK and what isn't, like
sites like Twitter have to.

~~~
commandlinefan
Well, reddit has been policing content for a very long time. So far they
haven't been held responsible for things that "get on the site but shouldn't".

~~~
GhostVII
How so? They ban certain subreddits, but afaik they leave individual subreddit
moderation to the moderators.

~~~
IntronExon
Admins are involved in cases of legal issues such as doxxing, threats, illegal
material, etc. Mods are responsible for the rules of their sub, site-wide
rules ultimately are the purview of admins.

