
The ACLU Retreats from Free Expression - dsr12
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-aclu-retreats-from-free-expression-1529533065
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wheaties
I, personally hate white nationalists, as they devalue everything good and
decent. I also fully support the first amendment. I want to see them shut up
but I'll be damned if a law is passed that forces it. Bias needs to be stamped
out because we feel it's wrong, not because we're told to do so. External
motivation is far less compelling than internal. Laws are external

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skywhopper
This particular item has nothing to do with laws about free speech. The ACLU
provides legal support to fight government silencing of free speech. But there
are always more cases than it can fight. The ACLU has, in the past, supported
lots of truly hateful speech on principle. However, as others have pointed
out, there's a presumption of good faith. ie, that the hateful speakers really
are being silenced, and need legal help. These days, the "pro-free-speech"
crowd that gets publicized in the WSJ opinion page and Fox News are completely
bad faith actors, seeking to incite hatred and violence, making irresponsible
claims, backed by tons of money, and then crying "free speech" when their bad
faith is pointed out. The ACLU is, reasonably, calling that crap out as not
worth providing legal support to, since those actors are not sincere, they are
just troublemakers, sowing discord because it works to their advantage. The
ACLU ultimately must stand up for its core principles, and not be sucked into
minute parsing of legalistic technicalities, because the bad guys are playing
that game to destroy the ACLU and what it stands for, not because they believe
in "free speech".

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breakyerself
I'd say white nationalists and the like have more than enough representation
these days. They don't need the ACLU wasting limited resources when they've
already got the support of the Whitehouse.

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chrislynch42
Slippery slopes are real.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_..](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_..).

~~~
TheIronYuppie
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance)

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chrislynch42
I had already read it and didn't see anything compelling. Basically it says
its hard to maintain a tolerant cohesive society with intolerant nincompoops
running around.

We have intolerant groups on both sides of many issues. Are we going to censor
all of them?

~~~
charlesism

        > We have intolerant groups on both sides of many issues. Are we going to censor all of them?
    

Who did you have in mind?

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chrislynch42
Abortion, Gun Rights and Religious Freedom are low hanging fruit. To my mind,
as a nation we are becoming less tolerant rather than more tolerant across the
board. One of the reasons I have largely disconnected from Social Media.

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TheIronYuppie
There's a lot of research out there that the reality is more subtle than just
"free speech is free speech".

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance)

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RickJWagner
That's disturbing.

Step one on the SPLC trail.

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wccrawford
Anyone got a source that isn't behind a paywall? I can't find any of those
quotes from the blurb on the web, not even from the ACLU themselves.

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haaen
[https://outline.com/MtGgKs](https://outline.com/MtGgKs)

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wccrawford
Thanks. I don't see anything in there that says they're "retreating from free
expression" as the title here claims. Instead, it actually says that they will
still defend free speech for those they disagree with, including white
supremacists, when the cases make sense.

In fact, the only thing I really see here is them saying that a lot of factors
go into deciding which cases they can take, including the fact that they can't
take all the cases they want to.

Without something more than this, I think the title is clickbait, if not
outright wrong.

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Dowwie
Reminder: The WSJ is owned by NewsCorp, who owns FoxNews and NYPost

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CWuestefeld
Reminder: never believe anything said by members of your out-group. Only
what's written by your own tribe can be true.

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flyingfences
Oh how the mighty have fallen.

