
I’m the Wife of a Former N.F.L. Player. Football Destroyed His Mind - uptown
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/02/opinion/sunday/nfl-cte-brain-damage.html
======
andrewl
NFL player and mathematics doctoral student John Urschel retired last summer
because he was afraid of possible brain damage. He'd had a concussion and
found that for some weeks after his ability to think about math was impaired.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Urschel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Urschel)

~~~
edanm
Thanks for this! I always think of him whenever discussion of the NFL comes
up, and I had no idea he retired.

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j9461701
>But who these men have become is not who they are, and I write that with
conviction. The symptoms they display are beyond their control and occur
through no fault of their own. These men chose football, but they didn’t
choose brain damage.

Completely true, and the previous generation of players rightly deserves
compensation for being lied to by the NFL. They didn't know the devil's
bargain they were striking. But the next generation? The ones who do now know?

Muhammand Ali was suffering from severe brain damage as early as 29, but kept
boxing anyway because he was addicted to the fame and the glory. He'd come out
of a match slurring his words and struggling to maintain a normal stride, yet
would still deny any possibility of his brain being damaged by all the
fighting. He was too tough, he was too fast, he was too macho. Until he
wasn't, and then it was too late. This all coming after nearly a century of
research showing the degenerative effects of boxing on the human mind.

Some jobs simply carry with them the understanding you are going to be "used
up" by participating. Wrestlers, boxers, hockey players, and now footballers.
Some men are willing to destroy themselves in pursuit of wealth and fame, and
it's difficult to say it's our job as a society to overrule their choices
about their own bodies.

 _However_ , I do think pop culture should try to stop downplaying the effects
of this kind of stuff. Super heroes, for example, send the message to kids
that you can engage in violence altercations for decades, and the only
negative impacts will be physical (if they exist at all). I laughed out loud
during TKDR when Batman's only injury from all his fighting is a bum knee and
a few scars - his brain should be mush, are you kidding me?

~~~
foobarchu
That's all true, but I'm not sure you can even blame current generations. Yes,
the knowledge that football or boxing cause heavy brain damage is pretty
widespread, but nobody is telling participants that when they get into the
sports. A youth football program isn't going to emphasize how dangerous it is
when kids get older, and you'll see even less discussion about that among
players and administration as they get older. I doubt that a newly drafted
college player will be asked by the coach "hey you know you'll get concussions
regularly, right?"

So is it really their own fault? Or is it an institutional issue?

~~~
banned1
Not everything has to be somebody else’s fault.

------
criddell
NFL players are at least well compensated and are adults making decisions for
themselves.

My problem is at the high school and college level. The kids are playing with
great intensity for nothing more than love of the game and maybe the
opportunity to move up. The long term risks seem way too high.

I'd say the same thing about kids playing soccer. I don't think heading the
ball should be allowed in high school or college play. I was relieved when my
daughter quit soccer.

~~~
bpicolo
> adults making decisions for themselves

That's the crux of the biggest issue. The NFL actively covered up/denied
evidence that concussions were damaging for decades.

~~~
w0m
This is one of the key points to me - NFL actively hid the fact from their own
fans and players for years. That should have been a much bigger deal I think,
criminal negligence.

~~~
unclebucknasty
> _should have been a much bigger deal_

Yeah, and it's a pattern we've seen before (e.g. Big Tobacco).

I think it's a playbook. They string out the lies over a long period, then let
the suspicion trickle out slowly. So, there are moments of muted outrage along
the way, but by the time the full story comes out the pressure build-up has
already been relieved. Beyond that, the finally-admitted truth is something we
already knew for so long that our outrage has waned.

Basically, a PSYOP.

~~~
gameswithgo
>Yeah, and it's a pattern we've seen before (e.g. Big Tobacco)

And fossil fuel

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justaman
50 years ago when there was only had a small leather helmet, players wouldn't
go head first into each other. I thought this is an overlooked point worth
mentioning. Without a doubt the level of roughness has increased in 50 years
and so has the methods of diagnosis for injuries.

~~~
wcarron
Indeed. I played rugby and found that players are much more concerned with not
injuring themselves. There were not any spear-tackles or leading with the
head. Mostly cause you'll literally get knocked unconscious (or break your
neck) if you try it.

Additionally, in rugby it's illegal to lift a player off both feet, and high
tackles are much more heavily enforced, which forces players to use proper
wrapping tackles instead of just smashing into each other trying to knock the
ball-carrier down.

However, at the high level, spinal injuries are more common and actually a lot
of players have been paralyzed. Especially in scrums.

Just wanted to compare football and rugby in this context. I think both sports
are dangerous but, generally, I agree that the increasing protections provided
by helmets and gear enables football players to take much bigger risks and
hits. It's definitely a factor in the increase of CTE instances.

~~~
potta_coffee
Tackling in rugby involves wrapping the legs and immobilizing the player
rather than slamming into them as hard as possible. (Maybe inaccurate but
that's how I was taught to do it).

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alva
As I come from the UK and am not familiar with NFL, what moves specific to
this sport cause this? This issue is not prevalent at all in Rugby, which is
arguably more dangerous (no pads or helmets)

~~~
bmj
According to this article[0], concussions are just about about prevalent in
rugby as in professional football.

[0] [http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/16029747/rugby-nfl-
concu...](http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/16029747/rugby-nfl-concussion-
issue-figured-out)

~~~
amoorthy
I played rugby for a few years in high school (not exactly stellar credentials
but bear with me).

The first thing we were all taught to do was tackle. The technique was to wrap
your arms around the opponents legs, particularly below the knee as that would
guarantee their stoppage. This was a simple but very effective technique. We
never tried to go for the head, or lower our heads and hit them.

I never played football so I can't say if this technique would work there but
it's at least one reason no one on my team suffered a concussion in two
seasons.

~~~
jessriedel
The single biggest difference between rugby and American football tackles is
that (typically) in rugby you put your head behind the the runner while in
American football you put it in front, i.e., across the body of the runner.
The latter technique is only really possible without frequent facial injury
when you're wearing a helmet and is used because it is more reliable (harder
for the runner to run through). It also leads to more head, and especially
head-to-head, contact.

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wbracken
Honest question - football helmets have not changed that much in what, 25
years? Are there any efforts underway to use technology to improve the
protection provided by helmets? What about a softer layer outside the hard
plastic. What about crumple zones for lack of a better term - that means
helmets are designed to absorb one large hit, then be replaced. I am sure
there are studies underway, but seems like an area ripe for "disruption"...

~~~
unclebucknasty
The problem is that helmets--including the designs you describe-- are designed
to protect the skull and not the brain.

The brain suffers damage from slamming against the inside of the skull due to
inertia changes during collisions that are inherent to the sport.

There is literally no way to protect the brain as the sport is played today.

~~~
wbracken
My understanding is the brain slams against the inside of the skull due to
stopping fast. Wouldn't a crumple zone (again for lack of better term) allow
for a slower transition and thus less rattling around in the skull?

~~~
unclebucknasty
> _the brain slams against the inside of the skull due to stopping fast_

Yes, that's the inertia change I referenced.

A crumple zone is unlikely to mitigate the problem in any meaningful way. The
problem is that in a hard collision, the head still stops in an instant, but
the brain continues to travel at the same rate of speed until it slams into
the skull. Effectively slowing the distance over which the head comes to a
stop by a few millimeters or so won't meaningfully offset that impact. The
brain is still traveling too fast.

The kind of design you're referencing works in vehicles because its purpose is
to dissipate the energy of the collision around the zones instead of through
the vehicle. But, the goal here is to avoid damaging the vehicle so
extensively that the damage intrudes upon the cabin (and its occupant).

However, the vehicle's _deceleration_ itself is not altered in any meaningful
way by crumple zones. So, this system really only works if the driver is
restrained (e.g. by a seat-belt). Otherwise, the driver would still bear the
force of the sudden deceleration when she collided with whatever was on the
other side of the empty space in front of her.

Similarly, if the brain could be restrained in its skull, then helmets might
have at least some value in protecting it.

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Waterluvian
My concern is that changing Football will be difficult, if not impossible. It
would be like asking them to change the Bill of Rights because some of it is
outdated. It's a religion to many Americans.

~~~
Clubber
It will be a slow process, but you hear parents now saying they would never
let their children play, while when I was growing up, parents encouraged their
children to play.

College is a feeder to the NFL. High school is a feeder to College, etc. Once
you limit the source of nourishment, it will die in it's current state, but it
will take a while.

~~~
roguecoder
College donors can also have an impact here. Right now, football makes
colleges money. There's been recent controversy over Wesleyan, for example,
focusing on football because of the money it makes:
[https://slate.com/culture/2017/12/wesleyan-university-
footba...](https://slate.com/culture/2017/12/wesleyan-university-football-is-
good-business.html) If donors stopped giving in response to football and
started demanding accountability for the long-term effects of the sport, it
could have a major effect.

It may also require coordinated action, since no one wants to be the first
college to give up the cash cow. This is where action by the NCAA or even
legislation would be helpful.

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bproven
I still assert if you take away all (or most) of the armor that modern players
have the injuries would go down. All of the spearing, head leading etc would
no longer happen.

~~~
roguecoder
While we see these sorts of chronic problems and a rise in repetitive
injuries, the number of deaths dropped dramatically with the introduction of
helmets. "Between rule changes and the 1973 creation of NOCSAE, the National
Operating Committee on Standards for Athletic Equipment, head-injury
fatalities in high school football declined by three-quarters.":
[http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-
Magazine/The-312/May-2012/...](http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-
Magazine/The-312/May-2012/A-Brief-History-of-Football-Head-Injuries-and-a-
Look-Towards-the-Future/)

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cypherpunks01
Excellent Intercept article came out about this yesterday-

[https://theintercept.com/2018/02/01/nfl-concussion-super-
bow...](https://theintercept.com/2018/02/01/nfl-concussion-super-bowl-
protocol-football/)

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SCAQTony
Take the pads and helmets off and make it flag football. Therein, the game
will be transformed into both athleticism and grace and would probably attract
females into a womens league as well.

~~~
unclebucknasty
Interestingly, my kid's flag football league cites stats that there are more
concussions in flag football than in tackle, at least in that age group.

I am not sure that I totally believe those stats, but the larger point is that
any concussion in flag football would be due to an incidental collision.
However, in tackle football collisions are built into the game, so every play
is an opportunity for a sub-concussive blow, the accumulation of which has
been found to be more damaging than the one-off full concussion.

So, yeah. Flag football FTW.

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nashashmi
[https://www.theplayerstribune.com/jermichael-finley-
packers-...](https://www.theplayerstribune.com/jermichael-finley-packers-
injury-retirement/)

“They Basically Reset My Brain”

I thought this was an interesting read after reading the headline. It is an
article about a person who struggles to regain his mind after concussions
after concussions.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14436417](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14436417)

------
crb002
Also a high rate of insulin resistance. You can't stay on an NFL diet after
you retire. The NFL should get retirees a free pre-made meal plan and gym
membership.

~~~
wenc
How so? The NFL diet seems pretty protein and vegetable-rich, and low on
simple carbs. Simple carbs are correlated with insulin resistance.

[https://www.bonappetit.com/people/article/nfl-players-
diet](https://www.bonappetit.com/people/article/nfl-players-diet)

~~~
TheCoelacanth
Seems like some of them are doing that, but not universally. "Waffles", "pasta
and chicken for lunch, double-portion on the pasta" "lasagna with some more
chicken for dinner. In between, he’ll put away a peanut butter and jelly
sandwich or two" certainly doesn't sound like a diet low in simple carbs.

------
banku_brougham
There’s a lot of discussion on whether players are compensated for the risk.
I’ll add that the career average earnings should include all the players who
aspired to an NFL contract but did not succeed.

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zaphirplane
What aspect of playing a contact sport causes brain damage, is it the sudden
stop from a tackle or falling and hitting your head on the grass or ...? Can
it be mitigated

~~~
wdr1
Repeated collision of your skull, even if it doesn't result in concussion.

Linemen are the most prone.

[https://www.forbes.com/sites/leighsteinberg/2017/07/25/cte-s...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/leighsteinberg/2017/07/25/cte-
study-sends-shock-waves-through-world-of-football-part-1/#94c4cd54e64d)

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dominotw
mma fighters like Eryk Anders who were once NFL players claim that NFL is much
more dangerous than mma.

yet MMA seems to get much more scrutiny( bans ect) than NFL.

I saw an interesting house regulatory committee meeting where people like
Randy Couture testified on this topic
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S03Z6a2ABWk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S03Z6a2ABWk)

~~~
roguecoder
The NFL spends massive amounts of money deflecting responsibility:
[https://www.healthnewsreview.org/2018/01/nfl-cdc-
tbi162490/](https://www.healthnewsreview.org/2018/01/nfl-cdc-tbi162490/)

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onewhonknocks
I think it may be a little unfair that the NFL has to pay out for damage that
was done in aggregate over an entire lifetime (starting at Pee-Wee and moving
on through primary school and Uni).

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iteriteratedone
He destroyed his mind and got paid well for it. There are many dangerous jobs
out there and usually the pay reflects it. The player union and company needs
to invest in solutions. If there are none apparent it might cost less to up
salaries then invest in R and D. The owners dont want players to get long term
damage. Mining orgs dont want miners to get black lung.

Tech solutions are a great place for this but its not a moral issue. He chose
to play pro football. Its not footballs fault. And not every player gets brain
damage so lets hear some numbers on that. What was this guys diet? Some people
get brain damage that dont play football.

~~~
Retra
Why would you think player pay has anything to do with risk of injury? There
are _very_ few occupations where this is true, and celebrity sports are close
to the last place to assume that is happening.

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dmitrygr
I'm surprised that American football doesn't come with a prop-65 like warning
in CA. Seems like it should now that the link with CTE is confirmed. Maybe if
it was labeled as what it is (slow suicide for the sake of random people
watching), it would start to finally lose popularity

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rplst8
First off, I mostly abhor football.

But there are all sorts of dangerous jobs. Deep sea fishermen, coal miners,
oil riggers, heck even long haul truckers are high risk due to how dangerous
highway travel is. People are allowed to make decisions on their own about the
trade-offs and run their own lives.

If you want a job that is less risky, study hard and go to college. Then you
can get an office job and all of the things that come with that (obesity,
diabetes, and heart disease).

~~~
oh_sigh
Sure, but most people aren't sending their 13 year olds to training camps for
coal mining or oil rigging, whereas football is figuratively and literally
drilled into the heads of a huge swath of young men in our country from the
time they are born.

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shkkmo
Let's keep this in mind next time there is a domestic abuse scandal involving
an NFL player. Perhaps shaming the NFL into booting the player and cutting off
his benefits isn't a appropriate solution for someone whose behavior may
partially be the result of brain damage accrued while providing us with
entertainment.

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debt
I don't mean to make to big a stretch here, but shouldn't the advertising
companies also be held morally culpable for exacerbating CTE?

I mean the NFL had an incentive to increase the hits and blows to make it more
entertaining, to draw more people, to sell ads.

I do see a future, where, unless the sport changes, companies will start
pulling their ads from football games.

~~~
kareemsabri
Sure, but there's degrees of moral responsibility. Shouldn't the spectators,
should the player's parents etc.

~~~
chrxr
"Who killed Davey Moore, Why an' what's the reason for?"

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_Davey_Moore](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_Davey_Moore)

