
Ask HN: Is there ANY scientific evidence of 5G being harmful - andrewseanryan
I see lots of people talking about negative health effects from 5G but I have never seen any evidence. It is always some guy talking on YouTube or equivalent. If there is any actual evidence, I would like to see it. It looks like conspiracy theory to me but I haven’t done enough personal research to pass judgement.
======
dublin
Wackiness aside, there is some evidence that some wireless technologies can
and do present real dangers (e.g., a Scandanavian study a few years back that
showed pelvic blade bone density was as much as 30% less on the side men
carried their GSM phones on their belts.)

5G is also a horribly imprecise term - it can include anything from 600 MHz
UHF to 40 GHz mm wave, and widely varying modulation and power control
schemes. The lower bands are probably not a problem, as we've been using some
of them for quite a while, though not on our persons. The mm-wave and THz
stuff really is a huge unknown.

One problem is that these technologies don't ever get seriously tested for
biological effects: They just get deployed due to industry/govt/carrier/market
pressure, and by the time we have enough data to even know therer might be a
danger (viz, the GSM study above), we're already experimenting on the
population as test subjects for the next generation of risk. At least as much
as the frequency, the modulation method seems to matter, too, with the very
sharp-edged full-power square waves of TSM/GSM type signals probably being
considerably worse than the noise-like CDMA, for instance. (IMO, there is
probably no current (4G/5G) LTE technology that is nearly as safe as CDMA.)
More recent research does seem to show that there are RF health effects that
are NOT related to heating, but heating is the only thing any of the
gov't/industry "RF safety" regs cover.

This really is one of those areas where an honest person is forced to
recognize that we have no idea what we don't know. RF and biology is a barely
studied field, yet we know that many (most? all?) living things do have
biophoton systems that we don't understand, and have largely ignored. 5G could
be heinously dangerous, or relatively benign. So the answer to your question
is no, there isn't (much) solid evidence yet that 5G is dangerous, and we
won't really know for many years. But neither is there any actual evidence
that it is safe and harmless...

~~~
sinak
I think the modulations schemes are largely the same across the board for 5G.
Also 4G LTE and 5G signal waveforms both look a lot like CDMA.

------
ehutch79
No.

There's questions about the general increase of wireless traffic in general,
but nothing has be proven at all since cell phones came about. Let alone
microwaves, or household appliances. At least not to my knowledge.

~~~
ehutch79
Also, one of the conspiracy theories against 5g is that the towers are
literally sucking the air out of your lungs. :-|

[https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/4/21207927/5g-towers-
burning...](https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/4/21207927/5g-towers-burning-uk-
coronavirus-conspiracy-theory-link)

~~~
oblongx
True, that one is a little wild but there is also another angle as to why 5g
is "bad":
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22480444](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22480444)

------
mrtonypino
Not a scientific study, but a notable anecdote that struck me a while ago.
Firefighters in SF reported a host of symptoms after a 5G unit was placed on
their station:
[https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2018/01/25/consumerwatch-5...](https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2018/01/25/consumerwatch-5g-cellphone-
towers-signal-renewed-concerns-over-impacts-on-health/)

------
redis_mlc
The science-based answer is that it depends on the frequency and effect on
human tissue.

So mounting a telco transmitter on your roof is probably bad for you, similar
to being inside a microwave oven.

Holding it pressed against your ear while talking is also probably bad for you
depending on duration, but mfgs. do tests at various distances from your ear.

If you're a real estate agent using your mobile phone all day, I'd use an
earpiece and put the phone on your desk away from your body.

------
tangent-man
This page seems to have a fair few links to legit scientific studies on the
dangers of 5G and related technologies.

[https://ehtrust.org/science/cell-towers-and-cell-
antennae/co...](https://ehtrust.org/science/cell-towers-and-cell-
antennae/compilation-of-research-studies-on-cell-tower-radiation-and-health/)

I don't think it's a simple matter of: non-ionizing radiotion=safe.

------
sosilkj
there are some interesting links in this HN comment regarding this question:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20038570](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20038570)

in general, research on RF radiation can take time to wade through and you
might not arrive at a satisfying answer one way or the other.

~~~
dublin
Hadn't seen some of the links in that post - definitely some good solid info
there...

------
runjake
Pro-tip: this happened when EDGE, 3G, and 4G were released and in all of the
above cases, were debunked.

~~~
rs23296008n1
[https://www.chicagotribune.com/investigations/ct-cell-
phone-...](https://www.chicagotribune.com/investigations/ct-cell-phone-
radiation-testing-20190821-72qgu4nzlfda5kyuhteiieh4da-story.html)

Not so sure they were. The testing wasn't exactly great and compliance in the
real world is... less than realistic.

------
tangent-man
In my opinion your better off asking this question on a biomedical forum as
Computer Programmers and Electronics Engineers seem to have a conflict of
interest regarding this for some reason.

------
drummer
Yes
[https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2020/6461...](https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2020/646172/EPRS_BRI\(2020\)646172_EN.pdf)

~~~
WarOnPrivacy
Millimeter waves (30-100GHz range) attenuate like crazy & are seriously
degraded by pretty much everything (eg: rain, dust).

For folks who must fret over mm wave tech, it's worth considering that cell
towers have been using 11-83GHz bands for short distance backhaul & linkage
for decades. So have tons of other industries.

Last, I'm about positive that only some approved frequency groups in the 5G
standard will be in use, in any given region. Lower bands should see the
widest deployment.

------
daemonspudguy
Not that I've seen.

------
buboard
no but we also need evidence that it's useful

~~~
freehunter
I’d agree with that. I keep seeing headlines like “5g will enable the IoT” and
“5g will take AI to the next level” but I have yet to see what specifically
about 5g makes that claim any more true than 4g or 3g or EDGE. We haven’t even
gotten the full speed we were promised with 4g.

------
celticninja
no

