
United States of Paranoia: A growing tribe of troubled minds - elorant
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/11/health/gang-stalking-targeted-individuals.html
======
phren0logy
I'm a psychiatrist. When I went to med school I thought I would go the
radiology route, because that's where all the cool tech is, but one of the
things that drew me in was the unexpected consistency in the themes of severe
mental illness. Paranoia is, on an academic level, a fascinating phenomenon.
It also causes a lot of suffering.

Please remember that these kinds of communities have sprung up in the context
of the ongoing stigma of mental illness, and the limitations of present
medications for psychosis (most have unpleasant side-effects). Other
contributors are a mistrust of authority, and the always-complicated balance
between individual liberties and involuntary treatment.

Finally, a plea for some compassion. Many of these people live a deeply
tormented life, and feel like they can't trust anyone. It's a hard existence
for both them and their families. It might seem like a humorous phenomenon,
but there's a lot of suffering here.

~~~
blazespin
I think a huge source of blame lies in organizations like the NSA/CIA that
have proven to be deceptive / secretive / manipulative. There is a long
history of secret experiements done by government that breeds distrust. Add
mental health issues and the internet and you have a cauldron which can easily
brew up this sort of thing.

I think a good type of treatment for this would be body cameras and mikes
which a therapist could review with a patient and provide them with rational
explanations.

~~~
ilaksh
There's also a long history of governments using accusations of mental illness
to suppress dissidents.

~~~
Endy
Is it still paranoia when they really are following you?

~~~
nxzero
Likely, since even in a situation where they were the subject of a real
campaign, inducing clinical degree of paranoia would very likely be an
objective.

------
tunap
“They end up in a closed ideology echo chamber,”

I cannot deny I often find myself pigeon-holed into this category, the
derision poured upon me to "fix" something has been consistent & unwavering.
Problem is, I was always more interested in books/work over socializing before
the netz, I don't hear voices in my head besides my inner-
monologue(hopefully=not-schizo) and my 'echo chamber' is anything but... I am
drawn to alien, re-framed & unique perspectives of the world I live in. My
solitude is a result of not being current on the TV shows, my choice to avoid
Web2.0 style social(sic) media and a very low consumption fueled lifestyle...
all these are past-times for the mass majority. Good for them, if that is what
people choose. Good for me for not choosing to do the same. My outlier
mentality has subsequently been reinforced by the writings/works of some very
smart people. A few examples:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dragons_of_Eden](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dragons_of_Eden)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demon-
Haunted_World](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demon-Haunted_World)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Swan_%28Taleb_book%2...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Swan_%28Taleb_book%29)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Curtis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Curtis)

edit:added conclusion, 3rd and 2nd to last sentences.

~~~
cortesoft
Just so you know, you can live a non-solitary life and not stay up on TV, not
be on social media, and live a low consumption life. None of those things
preclude interacting with other people.

There is obviously a spectrum between fully social and fully anti-social, and
it is important to find out where you fit on that. There is always value,
however, in avoiding being on the far end of the anti-social spectrum. Having
our thinking challenged by real people, with real interaction, is important to
our mental health.

~~~
tunap
Hear, hear. Everything in degrees; spectrums. Too much of anything tends to be
unhealthy.

------
bpchaps
I do "government watchdog" work, have bipolar and have dealt with paranoia on
a relatively unhealthy level before and to some extent, now.

It's not fun. It's very hard to determine what's "real", who's telling the
truth and who's trying to "get me". I've spoken to my psychiatrist about this
multiple times, but every time I bring it up, he says that it's a perfectly
rational feeling to have considering what kind of work I'm doing and that
thinking through it is all I can do.

To make matters worse, I met up with a journalist the other day to discuss a
couple large projects I'm working on. Later in the night, I was mugged. My
phone, license and credit cards were stolen. My bag with my laptop, etc wasn't
stolen, though. It's very hard to express the sorts of paranoia it caused. The
lack of empathy, lack of cops in a usually cop-laden area and a genuine lack
of interest in checking city camera footage didn't help.

What's worse is that talking about it makes others consider you a paranoid
crazy person. There's very little area for discussion, because the default
discussion is, "stop acting crazy", rather than "Let's discuss why you feel
this way."

~~~
oh_sigh
Why do you think you're interesting enough to be gang stalked?

~~~
bpchaps
Because I'm very, very aggressively seeking Chicago mayor's phone's records
through FOIA.

[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hgG79eIr8MbkjYrCvcTR...](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hgG79eIr8MbkjYrCvcTRN8n876KL8aXYYu5it8Lg0g8)

~~~
studentrob
Why not tell your pyschiatrist that you'd like to discuss the details of why
you feel that way?

I gather you are looking for someone who will believe you, and without
evidence, nobody is likely to believe you, leading you on a deeper and deeper
quest for something that passes as real evidence.

That sounds super tough. Take care, good luck

~~~
bpchaps
(unstructured dump)

I have, and his assessment is that it's basically stress driving something
similar to paranoia. Talking about it with friends and posting on places like
HN helps, though.

It's kind of a long story why I'm doing a lot of this. After a project I'm
(still) working on to analyze parking tickets in Chicago [0], I managed to get
invited to Bob Fioretti's [1] office to show them what I found. They really,
really liked what I had to show. When I brought up proof of [2] from a FOIA
request that they could have used in their campaign, they told me to never
mention it again and never contacted me back. It was very odd and gave me a
very negative vibe. To make matters worse, they began using parking tickets as
a large part of their campaign - without me. A friend suggested that maybe
Rahm was involved with Fioretti, which led to an initial request for the
mayor's phone records was submitted. The weekend before the election, Fioretti
dropped out and gave his support to Rahm, so the negative vibes were possibly
accurate.

The initial reason for the request isn't as important to me anymore, though.
These days, the strong lack of privacy reciprocation and negative comments
such as, "You're naive to think you can do this.", "Stop stalking the mayor."
(my family), "You're crazy", "Nothing will come out of this", etc drives me to
continue. It's incredibly frustrating, but when I finally got the phone
records, a huge weight was lifted, as it showed that those negative comments
were largely unjustified.

That said, a lot of people do believe me and do want to help me out. I expect
to have a story published in the next month or so thanks to those people.

Thanks for the support. :)

[0] proof of concept: [https://plot.ly/~red-bin/6.embed](https://plot.ly/~red-
bin/6.embed) [1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Fioretti](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Fioretti)
[2] [https://thamovement1.blogspot.com/2015/02/is-willie-
wilson-f...](https://thamovement1.blogspot.com/2015/02/is-willie-wilson-
financing-dock-walls.html)

------
paradite
I will probably not be convinced to believe these group of people, but I am
troubled by the fact that the author has written this article with the pre-
assumption that these people are absolutely, without any doubt, sick and being
paranoid.

When you are covering a story where there are conflicting views, it is not
nice to pick one side and see the opposing view as an illness that needs to be
treated. It is just not right, no matter how absurd the opposing view sounds
to you.

~~~
Retric
Always trying to present a 'balanced' view is an extreme form of bias. 10
million well informed people on one side 10 fools on the other. Let's give
them equal air time.

Someone is always going to disagree and trying to accommodate extreme fringe
beliefs basically prevents you from communicating accurately. Worse it adds a
fake air of legitimacy to every wack-job out there.

~~~
Spivak
By your standard, truth is determined by consensus. Ignore the number people
involved, because it's irrelevant, and just look at ideas and arguments.

It's not about creating a numerical balance between groups of people with
differing views, it's about refining an idea by challenging it. If those 10
people really are wrong then the evidence will dismiss their point immediately
and you have nothing to worry about.

Presenting an idea without challenging it, or worse challenging it with straw
man, makes your work less persuasive.

~~~
Retric
I can find plenty of people that think today is Tuesday, but it's consensious
among the informed that it's Sunday. Should I really present a counter
argument to the date?

~~~
jsprogrammer
You should be able to say why it is Saturday, not rely on "consensus among the
informed".

~~~
Retric
Sure, articles are not debates. So, I can simply report the truth without
bothering with nut jobs.

------
orf
I really like the play on words in the title.

These communities seem natural given the nature of the internet. The barrier
to publishing or forming a community is pretty much non-existent, and because
the internet transcends most borders the critical mass of people required to
form communities with non-mainstream ideals is incredibly low. And so you get
groups of holocaust deniers, flat earthers and apparently (+ unfortunately)
paranoid schizophrenics.

It seems like the internet might almost reinforce the echo chamber by
amplifying the feeling that everyone else is a 'sheep', because you see the
big communities of people (news organizations, social media etc) dismissing
your communities ideas and so people turn more inward and focus more on others
who hold the same views.

~~~
vasaulys
The internet also forms a sort of release valve.

People being bigots with words over the internet is better than lynching or
public beatings imo.

~~~
n72
Is there evidence for this?

~~~
MereInterest
It sounds like the Catharsis Hypothesis, which states that the release of
aggression in small ways prevents large expressions of aggression. This has
been rather thoroughly discredited. Small displays of aggression (e.g. ranting
online) train an individual that aggression is an appropriate response, and
leads to larger displays of aggression (e.g. physical attacks).

Source: [http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bbushman/PSPB02.pdf](http://www-
personal.umich.edu/~bbushman/PSPB02.pdf)
[http://blog.uwgb.edu/alltherage/four-questions-on-the-
cathar...](http://blog.uwgb.edu/alltherage/four-questions-on-the-catharsis-
myth-with-dr-brad-bushman/)

~~~
Endy
I provide an alternative hypothesis - most people are basically lazy. I don't
mean that in a very negative sense, but that our brains are wired to take the
path of lesser resistance whenever possible. I forget where I read this first,
but I have seen it corroborated by academia. It is INFINITELY easier to type
out a hateful message and be agreed with by your peers, than to do something
violent and risk real repercussions.

~~~
tremon
That has nothing to do with laziness though, and everything with risk
perception.

Still, if micro-aggressions aren't checked, it is easy to assume they are
accepted. That will lead to an escalation of aggression like the GP described.

------
kordless
First, I want to say that I believe people when they say they are seeing
things. Most humans appear to have a mechanism by which they can visualize
objects as if they are real. This phenomenon of visualization has been largely
unexplored. It would appear people visualize in widely different ways.

These people are apparently tormented by bad visualization system security.
I've hypothesized about visualization systems going bad before when I looked
at working at Magic Leap. If we all end up wearing AR headsets, how is it that
I can guarantee what I'm seeing is an accurate representation of what I want
to see? Don't let anyone tell you we a solution for trusted security for this
stuff! We fucking don't. Yet.

How is it that human's visual systems are secured against penetration? How is
it that some appear to be vulnerable, while others, such as myself, appear to
be completely "locked down" in their visualization systems?

I'm beginning to suspect that this so called affliction "Aphantasia" is
actually a strong feature that is related to insanity. I'm thankful to the
fact I don't have the ability to visualize. I also may be crazy and don't
realize it.

------
wyldfire
> The similarities of the cases spoke to a wide-ranging campaign, he said. “If
> the psychiatrists want to say that this is schizophrenia or delusional
> disorder, that’s fine,” he said. “But every one of these victims have the
> same story.”

Just because there's thousands of folks suffering identical symptoms doesn't
mean it's not psychosis. But it would be interesting if somehow there were an
environmental component to the problem. Likely not a pernicious, perpetrated-
by-ne'er do wells one, but it could be that something most people interact
with daily and thought to be harmless has a harmful effect in some small
number of people.

~~~
danmaz74
In fact, there is an "environmental component" to the problem, mentioned right
there in the article: the self-organized groups on the internet which amplify
and reinforce the persecutory delusions these people are experiencing.

~~~
Decade
People have been developing schizo persecution complexes for as long as I
remember. Just the contents of the delusions differ depending on the victim’s
experiences.

I wonder if modern society exacerbates or amplifies it, though by “modern” I
mean post-Agricultural Revolution. We humans tend to think that we can handle
any problem that we create for ourselves, but I think there is some strain,
and everybody has a breaking point. We don’t all break the same way. See also:
Education practices.

It certainly doesn’t help that the government really is trying to spy on you,
the government really is pushing people to do crazy things ([0] and others),
and the people in government offices really are lying to you ([1], [2], for
why the President is wrong about Snowden having official channels). The
article mentions MKUltra[3], which obsesses one of the relatively harmless
schizos whom I know. Some things are clearly false, or false but difficult to
falsify (mind control satellites, anyone?), but I feel that this nuance is
usually lacking in persecution complexes.

[0][http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/do-f-b-i-stings-
help...](http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/do-f-b-i-stings-help-the-
fight-against-isis)
[1][https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130809/12594124128/obama...](https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130809/12594124128/obamas-
simply-wrong-whistleblower-protections-would-not-have-applied-to-
snowden.shtml) [2][http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/22/how-
pentagon-...](http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/22/how-pentagon-
punished-nsa-whistleblowers) [3][http://gizmodo.com/project-mkultra-one-of-
the-most-shocking-...](http://gizmodo.com/project-mkultra-one-of-the-most-
shocking-cia-programs-1370236359)

------
SonicSoul
this is incredibly sad. could loneliness be a contributing factor? This
reminds of _This American Life_ episode about a man who got off his medication
and felt like there were trained assassins after him. He ended up causing a
lot of damage, attacking cops, and being shot in the process (not deadly).
Luckily we do have medication that can help with such conditions.

[http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-
archives/episode/579/m...](http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-
archives/episode/579/my-damn-mind)

~~~
unimpressive
>being shot in the process (not deadly)

Being shot is _always_ deadly, I think you meant to say he was not _fatally_
shot.

EDIT: This is not a point of idle pedanticism, it's a very common
misconception that there are 'safe' places to shoot a human body such as the
shoulder. There are no safe places to shoot somebody, all shots taken by
police are shots to kill.

[https://www.pfoa.co.uk/110/shooting-to-
wound](https://www.pfoa.co.uk/110/shooting-to-wound)

~~~
acjohnson55
Huh? I think you may be confused. Being shot mean being struck by a bullet.
Inanimate objects can be shot. Whether it's deadly/fatal is a consequence of
the injury.

~~~
unimpressive
Merriam Webster definition of 'deadly':

1: likely to cause or capable of producing death <deadly poison>

[http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/deadly](http://www.merriam-
webster.com/dictionary/deadly)

~~~
acjohnson55
I see what you mean, but when people use "deadly" in retrospect, it's
typically synonymous with "fatal". It would be one thing if there were
potential for confusion, but here, there's really not.

------
andy
It's not paranoia if they're really after you. Read my blog at
[http://surroundedbyspies1.tumblr.com](http://surroundedbyspies1.tumblr.com).
I have written about 1) Cops trying to get me to talk about Muslims in a bar,
after posting a lot of anti Muslim stuff online about ground zero mosque. 2)
Finding a user avatar of Osama Bin Laden on the profile of a contractor I
paid, reporting it to the FBI, and being involuntarily committed few weeks
later for 20 days. 3) Being recruited by the UN and then finding proof via
Rapportive gmail tool that they were spying on me via someone I fell in love
with on Twitter. I wrote Rapportive asking about the proof and Rapportive
stopped using Rapleaf, their data provider, that day. The service Rapportive
is named for. We are not all delusional.

~~~
salgernon
A few months ago, I was in hospital for a major surgery. It went OK, I saw
family but was going to be in for a few days to deal with recovery. Heavy
painkillers.

After a few days, I woke up just after sunrise and discovered an eerie
silence. I realized that I had been kidnapped and put on a train to some
foreign country - they had been coming in every few hours to interrogate me
and check my papers as we passed through different territories - but now the
train had stopped and I was completely alone.

There was a strange city outside the window and I knew that it was my job to
escape - I am a security operative and I'd been taken against my will.

They were putting drugs in me to keep me sedated - I ripped the IV out of my
arm and made my way to a closet area where I ripped through supplies until I
found street clothes (I realized that there was another sedated agent in the
train car as well - he stirred, but I managed not to wake him.)

I snuck out of the train and into the landing tube, which was empty except for
some thugs at the far end; I snuck the other way and had made it to the
elevators before I was caught.

And gently led back to my hospital room, had the blood cleaned from my arm,
and put back into my hospital bed. Where I woke up a few hours later, with
memories of this strange dream.

But it wasn't a dream - I did rip out my IV and try to escape from a hospital.
There was a strange city outside my window - I had to travel for surgery. And
I was conscious when I made my escape and completely and utterly convinced
that what I thought was reasonable and real. Of course I was such a valuable
individual that they would kidnap me - and that there was an external "they"
(or to put it another way "the other") that was doing something to me.

I believed this completely - it was as true to me as my cat (or what I like to
think of as my cat, if you prefer) throwing up on the carpet in front of me
right now.

But now I know that my cat is not doing this on purpose, nor was he poisoned
by the NSA.

Andy, I'm very sorry that you're going through what you're going through, and
my experience informs me that what you feel is absolutely real is what is real
to you - but there are objective and subjective realities and if you can
externalize yourself from the situation you find yourself in, you may discover
that coincidences are coincidences and you don't need to find a hypothesis to
fit a random pattern.

I think that pareidolia can be applied to situations and feelings as well as
visual artifacts. Humans pattern match compulsively.

~~~
andy
Thank you salgernon, everything is fine now with me, but I will never forget
what happened to me. I wrote my blog before Snowden, btw.

------
themartorana
If they only knew the real, actual surveillance they're under every second of
their lives - every call, every packet online, every entrance into public
space, every single move from one location to another...

It's scary that we call these people are "paranoid" for thinking people are
watching them - mentally ill, even - when the reality may be (edit: is) far
scarier than the fantasy.

~~~
salgernon
The difference is that while the cost of performing electronic surveillance
approximates zero for each individual in a society as a whole, these people
believe that the government will pay X agents $N salary to spend time to
target them specifically.

Individual surveillance of course happens - but it probably isn't happening to
most of these people. It isn't reasonable.

~~~
Programmatic
And regardless the yardstick by which we measure the paranoia of people, and
especially paranoid schizophrenics, is whether they are prompted to perform
harmful actions.

"Sometimes they bumped into him and whispered nonsense into his ear, he said."
is a different ball park than believing that the government is watching
everything you say.

------
caseysoftware
> Mental health professionals say the narrative has taken hold among a group
> of people experiencing psychotic symptoms that have troubled the human mind
> since time immemorial. Except now victims are connecting on the internet,
> organizing and defying medical explanations for what’s happening to them.

I think that paragraph has implications _far_ beyond just the paranoia
described...

~~~
studentrob
Maybe if they see themselves in a mirror some will be able to identify the
illusion..

Group therapy works for other stuff

(I'm joking and not an MD, please don't take this seriously)

~~~
mercer
Ha, that reminds me of this here:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three_Christs_of_Ypsilanti](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three_Christs_of_Ypsilanti)

~~~
studentrob
> Rokeach added a comment in the final revision of the book that, while the
> experiment did not cure any of the three Christs, "It did cure me of my
> godlike delusion that I could manipulate them out of their beliefs."

LOL alright, well, it seems the people in the article/video are asking for
help. They similarly would be unreasonable to demand that someone give them
help in a specific way. Beggers can't be choosers.

------
arca_vorago
It's not paranoia if they're really after you!

Kidding aside, while I know the article is talking about gang-stalking and
paranoia of things that aren't there as variations of psychosis, there is a
deeper conversation to be had about the role of real government and private
business in actions and methods that actually encourage them, along with the
fact that sometimes people _aren 't_ just crazy and things really are
happening to them.

So as not to get to distracted from the original topic, I won't expound too
much, but in an era of mk ultra, emf weaponry, massive surveillance societies,
silencing of dissidents, including assassination, and various other trust
breaking experiments or operations against our own citizens, perhaps they
arent all crazy.

~~~
giardini
Don't know why the downvote for OP.

A variant on the same joke: I had a friend who used to occasionally say

"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!"

which always made me laugh. I laugh still but less, because our surveillance
society has now reduced the vague "they" to government/police agencies who
seem relentlessy devoted to shredding any concept of privacy that ever existed
in Western thought.

And the OP is right: the revelation of so much previously-unrevealed
surveillance by government and law-enforcement can only, to someone who is
from suspicious to paranoid, increase their suspicions or in some cases
_prove_ (to them) their fears. When I was a child I feared because my parents
told me that "God is watching you!"; today I fear because God knows who's
watching me! At least, in the case of "God", I understood his intentions.

------
matt_wulfeck
The saddest part about this is probably how alienating it must feel. Any of
your friends that try and convince you that you have a problem are simply part
of the problem working against you.

I bet that at least plays a small role in the documented unwillingness to seek
out professional help.

------
dsabanin
The article goes right into lumping up all the people who doubted official
story on 9/11 with paranoids. Nice.

Reminds me of the way psychiatry was used in Soviet Union to put people who
objected the official party line into mandatory detention in the hospital.[1]

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_abuse_of_psychiatry_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_abuse_of_psychiatry_in_the_Soviet_Union)

------
hashkb
Reminds me of
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgellons](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgellons)

~~~
dash2
OMG. From the linked article:

    
    
      Morgellons successfully lobbied members of the U.S. Congress     
      and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) 
      to investigate the condition in 2006.[4][9] 
    

You know your political system is broken when....

~~~
LionessLover
You think the system is broken when they investigate a disease? You think
because it's "mental" it's no medical condition?

~~~
eggy
WRT my comment below, not the poster you seemed to have replied to, I am not
at all upset about investigating a disease, mental or physical, however, I
believe the initial impetus was to lobby to look into it as a physical disease
(worms, tiny bugs, whatever), and that was where my astonishment came from; 6
years of finding no chemical, or organism, or other physical disease-causing
entity. Maybe I misread the link, but that's how I took it. I am sorry you
took it the wrong way.

------
lovemenot
There is one sense in which they are almost certainly correct in their claims
of being victimised by a group: Trolling.

The article says that _Targeted Individuals_ support each other online. I
cannot imagine trolls do not represent a good number of such a _support_
community.

------
nxzero
Having run into people like this and the fact there really are people that are
the subjects of targeted psychology operations, it's a very troubling and
complex topic.

Guess I'd be curious if there's a way to prove to someone they're not being
targeted.

~~~
alkonaut
No doubt targeted operations exist, but unless you have good reason to believe
you should be targeted (such as you having left the church of Scientology or a
similar organization) then you aren't targeted.

Believing that you were _randomly_ selected for a form of psychological terror
that would take enormous resources from the attacker is a pretty clear sign
you are delusional.

This is a group of people with mental health issues that unfortunately also
self sustain by suggesting relatives are "in on it" and that seeking help is
bad.

~~~
lettergram
To be fair, some people (to a lesser extent) were targeted at random when
Facebook was showing some people more negative posts on their newsfeeds as an
experiment.

~~~
nxzero
Fact that it's random means it's not the same; explicitly talking about
targeted efforts. Also, online efforts are not as resource intensive as in the
real world.

Only way this might be similar is if for training or testing reasons that
someone randomly became the subject of some effort. Given the resources this
would take, such efforts would be short in duration and likely near known R&D
or training spots for entities that would engage in things like that.

------
rotskoff
This article touches on a host issues very similar to those associated with
"The Truman Show delusion." There's a good New Yorker article
([http://bit.ly/1ULiZr6](http://bit.ly/1ULiZr6)) from 2013 about these
delusions and their relation to media and social media.

------
narrator
The problem with these articles is they mix delusional paranoia, which is a
real thing, with investigation into government corruption, which is also a
real thing. The article muddies the waters between the two in a politicized
way and thus helps to legitimize ad hominem attacks.

------
malz
These people found an ally in California's anti-mind control candidate for
U.S. Senate:

"... the freedom to think one's own thoughts free from interferance such as
that from Voice to Skull (V2K) mind control technology ... legislation to ban
non-consensual human experimentation and mind control slavery by means of
satellite weapons systems and and GWEN Tower platforms ..."

[http://www.massiemunroe4ussenator.com](http://www.massiemunroe4ussenator.com)

~~~
studentrob
Voice to skull is much too obvious..

It'd be something innocuous-sounding like the fluffy unicorn program, FUP

~~~
tremon
"Smart media -- for smart people"

~~~
studentrob
Haha, what does that imply, all tech is unnecessary?

~~~
tremon
No, it was just my lame attempt at coming up with a marketing phrase for the
OP's "Voice to Skull (V2K) mind control technology".

~~~
studentrob
oh, haha. Since smart media already exists and is a real thing, I thought you
were making fun of people who use SmartMedia.

------
hackaflocka
Look up "ratting computers" on Google.

It's when someone takes remote control of your computer and then uses it to
harass you (among other things)... e.g. by suddenly opening your DVD tray,
etc.

I wonder if some of them are victims of "ratting."

------
tn13
Why not make sleeping meds and other meds that treat mental illeness over the
counter drugs ? There is simply too much friction to get proper medicines in
USA. A walk into drug store lowers human dignity as one is treated like a
criminal by default.

~~~
mercer
The problem is that medication isn't a cure-all, and can actually
significantly worsen a situation. It would be like selling 'radiation devices'
people can use to treat their own cancer.

Of course, if we have medication that has been proven to work without side-
effects, I'd be all in favor.

~~~
tn13
I know people who had psychological issues. The doctor gave them a simple
prescription for "Restyl"[1]. The person has then simply buys the medicines by
walking into a drug store with the same old prescription for the rest of his
life.

One doctor's visit that is all.

In USA the guys will have to make several doctors visit, renew the
prescription every month. Not to mention the insane amount of friction to get
that doctor's appointment.

I do get the point you guys are making but letting the drug companies actively
advertise their medicines will help in informing customers what drugs they may
buy.

[1] Restyl, also known by the brand names of Niravam, Xanor, and Xanax, is a
benzodiazepine-class, short-acting medication used to manage moderate to
severe panic attacks and anxiety disorders. It is also used as an auxiliary
treatment for anxiety caused by moderate depression. It's available in both
generic form and extended release form (Xanax XR). In America, this medication
is a schedule IV controlled substance under the Controlled Substances Act.

------
eggy
I think it is just being reported more, organizing with support groups forming
due to the internet and other new technologies.

I can't help but recall the opening to the 1997 movie 'Conspiracy Theory' with
Mel Gibson. This is pre-9/11, so there must have been enough whiff of the
zeitgeist to make it then into a mainstream movie. That sort of lends evidence
to my position that this is common to heavily populated urban areas where the
disenfranchised can go unnoticed, and it is not a new phenomenon or
necessarily growing more; it's just more visible.

I worked in the B. Dalton bookstore on 8th Street in the Village in NYC back
in the 80s. One of the clerks was really into conspiracy theories and other
fringe occult and alternate lifestyle stuff. He would throw me a book either
self-published, or from an obscure publisher about many things like the U.S.
government using Orgone energy guns to control the public and weather [1].
These texts were always similar to real academic publications - footnotes,
bibliographies, photos, graphs - they were very fun to read!

He also turned me on to the book 'The Holy Blood And The Holy Grail' published
21 years before Dan Brown's 'The Da Vinci Code', and before learning of the
plagiarism lawsuit, it seemed like a fictionalized account of the book. Of
course Dan Brown created a story outside of just the conspiracy theory premise
[2].

Another was 'Spear of Destiny' published 1973 about the history and occult
powers of the storied spear used to pierce Jesus Christ's side [3]

I also used to go with my bookstore buddy to visit some squatters living in
the East Village. I'd listen to all of the theories about mind control,
tainted water, secret cable TV brainwashing messages, and on and on. Great
fun, really, but there were some truly neurotic people in the bunch. But then
again, also some real rational people just living an alternate lifestyle. I
can relate to being the participant-observer in my life's adventures. I guess
its part of ethnography formally.

But then again, this was the time of the conspiracy-driven, weird film
'Videodrome' by David Cronenberg. I really need to get hold of a copy, and
still see how it compares to how much I enjoyed it back then [4]. Just to see
the video cassette inserted into James Woods' stomach!

'Call me, call me any, anytime' \- Blondie

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgone)
[2]
[https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/mar/28/danbrown.books](https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/mar/28/danbrown.books)
[3]
[https://openlibrary.org/books/OL8111347M/Spear_of_Destiny](https://openlibrary.org/books/OL8111347M/Spear_of_Destiny)
[4]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Videodrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Videodrome)

~~~
rl3
The original _Deux Ex_ (2000) used that same zeitgeist to brilliant effect.

Early in the game, you'd encounter various disheveled homeless characters,
some clearly mentally ill. Many would ramble about seemingly far-fetched
conspiracies.

In my opinion, that was one of _the_ best narrative and immersion devices in
the history of interactive entertainment.

------
beshrkayali
"United States of Amnesia"

\- Gore Vidal

------
cLeEOGPw
This looks like a preparation for society to dismiss anyone who will be
actually targeted as insane. Technique widely used during Soviet regime times.
Asylums were for nonconforming opinions. This looks ripe for abuse for just
that.

------
hugeflyingsquid
This is a serious question.

what differentiates these people from those who say they were born with the
wrong genitalia? In both cases there is evidence to the contrary of the
person's claims (no one is watching the paranoid person, a person's genitals
exist as they exist). Why do we accept a transgendered person as being
reasonable but a paranoid person as not?

~~~
CydeWeys
There are several reasons this comparison breaks down, but here's one:

Transitioning as a solution to gender dysphoria _works_. It drastically
increases the quality of life of those who suffer from it. Sure, in an ideal
world where we had full knowledge of human biology and an ability to edit the
brain, we'd treat gender dysphoria simply by making people believe they were
the "correct" gender. But lacking that ability, we do the next best thing
possible that we can do.

On the other hand, you can't cure paranoid schizophrenics in any sort of
similar way.

~~~
Programmatic
At the risk of derailing this conversation, do you have resources to show that
transitioning works? The debate on both sides has muddied the water for me and
I'd love to see evidence for this. Thanks in advance.

~~~
rosalinekarr
I know this is largely anecdotal and not very scientific, but just listen to
[what trans people have to say about it][]. There are some people who do
regret transitioning, but usually the reason they give is the discrimination
they experience because of transitioning, not any genuine dissatisfaction with
themselves.

There is [a small propaganda war being waged by transphobic conservatives][]
to create the illusion of a large percentage of trans people that regret their
transition, but just look at their references. You'll find every link is
either to the Daily Mail or some other hate group referencing even more hate
groups in a big web of circular reasoning.

Generally, there's not a lot of hard data to work with on issues relating to
the trans community right now, which is a little frustrating, but hopefully
there will be more soon as the scientific community is finally starting to
recognize the LGBT community and conduct real science on this stuff.

[1]:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/search?q=regret&rest...](https://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/search?q=regret&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all)
[2]: [http://www.sexchangeregret.com/](http://www.sexchangeregret.com/)

~~~
Programmatic
Thanks for posting. It would be more interesting to see better studies without
sampling bias, but it was still interesting to see otherwise.

------
bananasabk
Its a real phenomena; I'm a programmer and run r/gangstalkingmkultra.

Humans did not evolve defenses against biohacking, We did not evolve: scales,
snake eyes, ear drums seperate-enough from the skull. We consider these
features ugly, not necessary...

The animal mind is a sensor [of light, color, heat, sound, vibration, emf],
and is extremely sensitive to these. There are 90+ patents for mind control,
everything from Radio, EMF, Infrared, Pulse positioned sine waves, and
ultrasound.

Science wont talk about most of this stuff, for example a scientist told me
radio could not affect the humans nervous system since we are 96% water; they
now claim we are 60% water, but forgot they said radio was not the cause.

Scientists are purposely discrediting these people, and are wrong about/lying
about/not studying so many topics i have compiled a partial list [
reddit.com/r/gangstalkingmkultra/comments/4fb98a/science_lies_relevant_to_mind_control/
]

Its rather bad because psychiatry was a complete fraud. The "treatments" for
one mental illness were [
reddit.com/r/gangstalkingmkultra/comments/4a4y1d/psychiatry_is_a_medical_fraud/
]

    
    
        hand crank drill to the skull and drain blood
        dr freemans icepick lobotomy
        dr freemans shock until KO
        more bizzaro surgeries
        straight jackets 24/7
        tying the person to a bed 20 hours a day
        drugging them and locking them up
        lithium a toxin so poisonous its used for chemotherapy to kill unkillable mutant cancer cells
        sterilization and eugenics
    

and current treatments are worth 10,000,000,000 a month, but I dont think they
cured anyone [their previous treatments were stopped because they did not work
and were barbaric].

Anyways its a real phenomena, web and youtube have videos and articles, ex-
CIA, ex-FBI, ex-Army, ex-NSA, have testified that a global mind control system
exists. google agency name + DEW, mk ultra, or mind control. Theres something
like 30-40+ serial killers/spree shooters that said mind control exists before
they went on their spree.

------
hetfeld
I have a paranoia clicking a link to nytimes because of tons of ads in the
first place.

~~~
stephengillie
I just want to point out the lack of paywall on this article. Either it's not
a big money-maker, or they're going to make up for the paywall profits with
the volume of other ads they're showing today.

------
amelius
> An internet search for “gang-stalking,” however, turns up page after page of
> results that regard it as fact. “What’s scary for me is that there are no
> counter sites that try and convince targeted individuals that they are
> delusional,” Dr. Sheridan said. “They end up in a closed ideology echo
> chamber,” she said.

Could Google help here?

~~~
ocdtrekkie
What could reinforce this viewpoint any more than one of the most powerful
entities on the planet modifying their results to convince them it's all in
their heads?

------
joesmo
When it's just tens or hundreds of thousands of people that believe in
something ridiculous, we call it delusions but when that number gets into the
millions we call it truth. Popularity is indeed the harbinger of truth. In
other words, how is this different than the idiots who are convinced
terrorists are after them? Just because we haven't yet identified the mental
sickness in the latter group doesn't mean their conspiracy theories are true
rather than delusions, but we are fine with even going to war to protect them.
I see no difference between delusional psychotic patients, in other words, and
many run of the mill idiots.

------
ilaksh
Immediately the article associates 9/11 truthers with mental illness. That is
the main point of the article -- to remind everyone that if you believe your
government did something truly heinous, you must be crazy.

There is a long history of governments using accusations of mental illness
when they get caught.

Maybe you are all just living in a false reality created by constant
propaganda on television and a type of collective denial.

9/11 was a false flag attack.

Now people will tell me to 'get help'.

~~~
oh_sigh
Or - is it possible that they weren't talking generally (that is - if you
believe a government can do anything wrong, you're crazy), and they were
talking specifically(if you think the US government did 9/11 - you're crazy)?

Just because governments can do bad things isn't proof that a particular bad
thing happened from the government.

------
bdavisx
Anyone from Hollywood on here, I can think of a couple of movie opportunities
from this story right here:

* people who are actually being targeted because they have some kind of "hidden" genetic "power" or something like that (eg x-men mutants)

* ordinary people who are actually being targeted by some tla organization testing out "mind weapons"

Of course, making a movie like either one of these isn't going to do much good
for the poor people from the story...

~~~
thatcat
sounds like sense8
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sense8](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sense8)

