

The three-day weekend: a dream deferred - rfugger
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/relationships/the-three-day-weekend-a-dream-deferred/article2030623/singlepage/#articlecontent

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jerf
It is fairly well established that how wealthy you feel is established by how
visibly wealthy you are compared to your fairly immediate neighbors. I think
the core fallacy of the idea that as prosperity increased, we'd work less, is
that obviously if we work less then we'll be less visibly wealthy compared to
our neighbors. Our ancient hindbrains do not perceive leisure time as a
visible sign of wealth.

I would suggest the continued popularity of the five-day work week is an
effect, not a cause.

Work-as-religion strikes me as an explanation that flatters the biases of
certain people, but I'm not seeing a lot of evidence for it. In fact as I sit
here trying to dissect the idea so that I can attack it, it's just coming
apart in my hands. Sure, there's some small segment of the population that may
feel that way, lawyers and financiers and others making a lot per hour, but I
just don't hear very many other people complaining that they can't work more.
As a _societal_ explanation for a 5-day work week it's so silly it can't
hardly be attacked without the attacks sounding equally silly.

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waqf
If your thesis were correct, then if employers freely offered 4-day weeks for
80% pay for everyone, then no-one would take them up. I don't believe that:
but in any case, there'd be no reason for them not to try the experiment.

~~~
jerf
"I don't believe that:"

I don't either, but I think that the reasons that would occur are themselves
second-order effects of what I cited, rather than the root cause. The offer
would be unstable and tend to collapse back into the usual workweek, which is
rather close to what has been established as the maximum amount you can work
at a job sustainably. The way in which it would probably collapse is that the
employer would get an offer from somebody to work the full normal workweek and
the employer would tend to take it. It's difficult in a conventional
employee/employer to buck the trend precisely because it comes from something
fundamental to human psychology that no amount of tech is going to solve.

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techsupporter
I've worked a 4x10 shift for most of my years at my current employer and
wouldn't have it any other way. My day is already "ruined" by going to work,
even for 9 hours (8+lunch), that I'd rather get more hours out of a day and
have the extra day off. The three-day weekend allows short trips without
having to use vacation days, and having a day off during the week allows more
time for errands.

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andrewdotcross
It's amazing how this work culture is more or less limited to North America. I
was in Munich a week ago and it's mind-blowing how relaxed the culture is for
a strong economy. Leisure time, which for Germany is drinking time, is highly
valued and not interrupted by work.

What I find amazing is that I would love more leisure time, yet I feel guilty
when I'm not working. It's not even a case of having a boss looking over my
shoulder, because I have my own business.

Anyone else struggle with this and has found a way to deal with it?

~~~
simonhamp
This is definitely more so the case when you run your own business. I do too
and I have the same feelings, so I end up working all evenings and sometimes
all weekend too.

But then I get other guilts, like not spending enough time with my wife,
visiting my parents, or getting enough sleep. My brain doesn't have chance to
switch off and my output is probably considerably lower than if I just stopped
and took a proper break from all the tech and work

This is the main reason why I'm mandating a 4-day work week for my employees.
But this is balanced... I don't then want them to feel the pressure to fit
that elusive 5th day into the remaining four.

The biggest hindrance to this is that the rest of society generally works 5
days. And in the web world, people want you 24/7. But we're balking against
it. Eventually, I'll get down to 4 days myself :) I can feel it

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jowiar
I hate getting political on HN, but, more than anything else, at least in the
USA, healthcare costs are a huge cause of this. That health coverage is tied
to employment creates a fixed cost on employers per-employee, rather than a
transferrable marginal cost. It is nonsensical that we manage to have both
high unemployment and long work-hours, but yet, it's cheaper for this to be
the hiring pattern.

All of that said, within the scope of software development (more relevant to
this board), a major factor is Brooks' law, which leads to the startup culture
of 80-hour weeks being "how things are done".

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waqf
I think your rant is slightly misplaced. I agree that it's a huge problem that
the US employment-related healthcare system prevents a free or fair market in
health insurance. But the specific problem you describe (and other fixed per-
employee costs which would persist even without healthcare) can be addressed
by externalizing the cost: pay the four-day employees less than pro rata.

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russell
The company where I work gives "surprise" four day weekends by giving Friday
off for several of the three day weekends, a nice bonus.

The article is really about the 4 day workweek: 4 10-hour days, which makes a
lot of sense for most people. Of course most HNers would be at a loss at what
to do with all the free time.

~~~
AndrewDucker
Work on their own projects, of course!

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crasshopper
It's not deferred by that much. _The Four Hour Workweek_ has been a super-
duper bestseller for a reason: Many people are actively working toward the
goal of periodic mini-retirements. For those who can earn and save, leisure is
quite possible today.

A second diversion of leisure, I believe, has been the priorisation of "a job
you love". This is a reasonable tradeoff. Imagine you have the choice to work
4 days a week in a tar pit, or work 6.75 days a week to make it as a
photographer. The Blackberry leash isn't so terrible viewed that way.

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fedd
i heard that some people say that in europe there are too many holidays,
especially in those countries that are not very rich. those people say, that
these vacations, holidays and other evidences of socialism (or even laziness)
are the cause of their problems.

i dont know, just wanted to hear thoughts...

~~~
teamonkey
I have 10 days of holiday here in Canada. At my previous job in the UK I had
21 (excluding bank holidays). A few months after I moved here the enormity of
the situation hit me and I nearly cried. Sure, the average salary is much
higher, but I've realised that a day off is worth much more to me than my
daily wage.

People are no more productive here than there; work tends to take up the time
you give it. Burnout rates seem to be much higher in North America, people are
more tired and less traveled.

Because companies here have more control over when an employee can take a
holiday, team members take holidays in groups "when it's good for the team",
meaning that there are a couple of weeks when absolutely nothing can get done
even for those who aren't on vacation.

Another closely-related issue is sick leave. In the UK the occasional sick day
isn't usually subtracted from your holiday allowance. Here no-one wants to be
off sick because they lose a valuable day off, so they come in to work and
spread viruses around to everyone else.

Having said that, I don't think the 3-day week would help. I feel that to
improve productivity, one needs a period of time to completely wind down and
three days isn't enough for that. I think more week-long vacations would be a
better solution.

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rmc
_In the UK the occasional sick day isn't usually subtracted from your holiday
allowance_

In Canada (& I assume USA), your sick leave is take out of your holidays?!
Madness!

~~~
fedd
capitalism! )

