
The US military is using online gaming to recruit teens - paulpauper
https://www.thenation.com/article/culture/military-recruitment-twitch/
======
parsimo2010
They also sponsor a bunch of sporting events. They've even done the video game
thing in the past
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America%27s_Army](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America%27s_Army)).
I suppose you could argue that Twitch is a little different, but the idea is
the same. They are trying to reach platforms that are popular among their
recruitment demographic- young Americans. They aren't going to waste their
money trying to recruit people with ads on the Hallmark Channel.

~~~
TACIXAT
I played this game in high school and it is still top of my list as one of the
best games I've ever played.

The matches could be incredibly slow. You could start a match and go grab a
snack and you'd still be alive. On the flip side if you died it could be 10+
minutes to respawn. Sound was really important. I think eventually you could
tag enemies on a minimap, but we had a ton of abbreviations for calling out
locations in chat. The weapons had their quirks too.

The training and qualifications were also hella tedious. Like to get medic
qualified you had to sit through this classroom lecture and take a test. The
special forces qualification (opened more levels and weapons) was also really
tough.

I hopped on in a later update and it was just constant respawn like any modern
FPS. Anyway, loved that game. Never joined the military but I thought about
it.

~~~
parsimo2010
> I hopped on in a later update and it was just constant respawn like any
> modern FPS

Yeah, I think the thing that made it such a good recruitment tool at the
beginning was that it wasn't like most video games. I wouldn't quite call it
realistic, but if you were the type of person that liked AA, you were probably
a good fit for the Army. The revisions gave it more mass appeal but probably
lowered the hit rate as a recruitment tool.

------
gundmc
This isn't something new:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America%27s_Army](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America%27s_Army)

~~~
blueboo
Streaming video channels featuring children’s idols strikes me as meaningfully
different than a computer game.

~~~
Waterfall
Is Joshua “Strotnium” David a children's idol? I bet most kids never heard of
him. Unless they're getting pewdiepie to tell people to join the navy this
seems like reaching too far.

------
Waterfall
People think military is cool, even those who are against the military are
donned in milspic gear and want to train with their tactics. Twitch makes it
cooler. I don't understand why its so upsetting, I thought the military was
cool before they were on twitch, before I watched movies on them just because
as a kid I thought they were strong ant powerful people that excelled at war,
kill or be killed. Military gets great treatment and I don't see what the
problem is. Do we consider action figures of GI Joe a recruitment problem?

>I had just reminded viewers of the United States’ history of atrocities
around the globe, and helpfully provided a link to the Wikipedia page for US
war crimes.

Can you name any military that hasn't done anything wrong? Not unique to any
military

>The practices employed on Twitch by military e-sports teams are part of a
system by which recruiters target children in unstable and/or disadvantaged
situations. Recruiters take advantage of the poor seeking steady income, the
vulnerable longing for stability, and the undocumented living in fear because
of their citizenship status. Now, at a time when all those factors are
magnified by a pandemic that has left half the country out of work and over 30
percent unable to afford their housing payments, conditions are ripe for
recruiters to prey on anxious youth.

Prey on anxious youth? Seriously, it's like they assume nobody wants to join
the military for any reason, if it wasn't for the pandemic. Giving young
disadvantaged kids discipline when their parents don't isn't bad. The article
brings up military sexual trauma and suicide as if that is not going to happen
anywhere but the military, or if its a normal thing. I have family in the
military, in fact that is how my family immigrated to the US due to a great
uncle serving in the military.

>“Twitch is unlike anything I’ve ever experienced in my career, and it’s
because you’re live for hours on end, talking to these people in the chat. You
develop a community and know your individual chatters. There is an ecosystem
in every Twitch channel,” Piker said. “Recruiting in this predatory way is a
violation of [the users’] safety.”

Seriously? You can find that kind of community on chaturbate or any of the sex
streaming sites.

~~~
ceilingcorner
Disappointing that this is so downvoted. Say what you want about militaries as
a general concept, but compared to essentially any prior state/country/empire
in the history of the world, the American military is remarkably benign,
especially considering their overwhelming military strength in comparison to
rivals.

If the Americans had even 10% of the imperialistic mentality of the Roman
Empire, British Empire, Ottoman Empire, Japanese Empire, Mughal Empire, etc.,
the entire world would be a single imperial state.

That certainly doesn't justify the numerous crimes that the American military
has done, but context is key, and like should be compared with like.

~~~
renewiltord
I don't think that's true. Warfare in general has advanced quite a bit, and
expertise exists in many places. You can't really hold an empire with just
force these days. The US would crumble under an attempt to take over anything
more than North America.

The approach of the modern superpower is much more effective: decentralized
power but overall alignment. There's no coincidence to America's approach. It
isn't ideological. It's pragmatic.

~~~
ceilingcorner
Maybe that is true today, but:

1) Much of that expertise has come directly from US involvement. See: Western
Europe, Japan, Korea.

2) Much of the other expertise developed specifically because of US non-
involvement. See: the Soviet Union and the states it influenced and supported.
There were even plans to attack/nuke the Soviets, who were the only real rival
post-WW2.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Unthinkable](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Unthinkable)

Had the U.S. wished to, it could have easily formed an imperial state
following WW2. That would have been in-line with essentially every large state
in human history. Thankfully, they didn't, and the world is better off for it.

~~~
renewiltord
I actually think America couldn’t have formed an imperial super state. That is
really, really hard. Even the pre-eminent superpower of the pre-World-War Era,
the United Kingdom, was having her empire fray and tatter before the Wars. The
forces at play are too powerful. Rapid collapse would have followed. And
that’s even assuming we could have beaten the USSR by 1949 (First Lightning),
when opposition nukes enter the picture and the game changes again.

The tools of modern warfare are too widespread and easy to adopt. You can’t do
it anymore, the old school empire is just as dead as old school fortresses.
Technology has broken it.

I have friends who served in Afghanistan. I’m not unfamiliar with how powerful
the US military is. But even that power is too weak.

America’s approach is way more resilient and the control exerted is much
easier to retain.

~~~
iguy
Besides the technology of weapons, a big change here is that the economics of
running an empire was completely changed by industrialization.

Every empire since the year dot captured land, with peasants farming it, who
could be taxed, to pay the soldiers, to capture land... that was the business
model. A little profit was left over to pay for cities, palaces, pyramids,
etc.

This flow of money from country to towns was reversed by the industrial
revolution. Within almost every country now, the cities are taxed to pay the
rural voter base (or to pay off the rural might-be-revolutionaries, in places
with less voting).

Not the only thing going on, of course -- changes in weapons matter to the
balance, as mentioned. So does the rise of literacy & nationalism, which made
the idea of rulers who are too distant (by ethnicity, language, or religion)
from the population base (as they were in empires, almost by definition) into
a rallying point. And thus raised the cost of holding land.

------
atlasunshrugged
This isn't shocking at all - recruiters used to come to my high school and
then eventually they set up an ROTC. I've even seen them put out attractive
girls in the park at recruiting booths with giveaways, not surprised they'll
do whatever they can to attract people.

I have an aversion to these tactics because I know I sure as hell wasn't
mature enough at 18 or even a decade later to be in a position where I could
be deciding to kill someone in combat and I don't like the idea of kids being
recruited with some slimy tactics, but I do think Silicon Valley needs to do a
better job of working with DoD and the US govt, I sure as hell would rather
the US be the undisputed world leader than Russia or China

edit for misspelling

~~~
Waterfall
>I know I sure as hell wasn't mature enough at 18 or even a decade later to be
in a position where I could be deciding to kill someone in combat

You could easily be a non combatant, and most are not combatants jobs. Its one
of the greatest misconceptions of the military. Wars and battles only occur
during a failure of diplomacy and negotiation.

~~~
atlasunshrugged
Sure, I could easily be a non combatant and likely would be (although I scored
in the high 90s on the ASVAB and the recruiters said I could pick my role...)
but my understanding is that you don't really get a choice. When you sign the
papers they own you and you wouldn't have much of a choice if they decided to
put you in that position.

I'm not sure I agree that those are the only situations where wars and battles
occur - maybe in great power conflicts but was there really much diplomacy or
negotiation before the U.S. invaded Iraq?

~~~
cbozeman
I scored a 96. I was supposed to go Navy Nuclear Power School and become a
nuclear power plant technician of some kind. Either a Machinist's Mate (MM
Nuclear), Electronics Technician (ET Nuclear), or Electrician's Mate (EM
Nuclear).

Turns out I'm color blind. I already had the top secret clearance, ended up as
a quartermaster (QM) for Patrol Coastal Crew Charlie at Naval Amphibious Base
Little Creek in Virginia Beach, under command of SOSCOM (Special Operations
Support Command).

A lot of driving around spec ops units on a RHIB (Ridged Hull Inflatable Boat)
up and down the Um Qasr river (which is actually more an estuary and canal
system, and actually has a lot of different names as it shifts... but that's
another story - everyone just calls it 'Um Qasr').

Bottom line, the military will put you where they need you most. Smart people
get put into advanced training for very technical ratings. I would probably be
working in a nuclear power plant today had I been born with normal color
vision. Such is life. Smart people are too rare to waste on shit like
infantry. There's plenty of people that can hold a rifle.

~~~
CapricornNoble
>>>Smart people are too rare to waste on shit like infantry.

Nitpick: the infantry needs intelligent people too, especially in the officer
ranks. McNamarra's Morons suffered massively-higher casualty rates than
"normal" draftee infantry, for example.

------
s9w
I don't get it. The article is basically saying that the military is something
bad? Then just say it like that. Don't make it about those perfectly fine
twitch channels.

edit: Oh this article is written by Jordan Uhl

------
andrewstuart
This is the core story of the science fiction story "Ender's Game". It seemed
far fetched at the time.

~~~
justaguyonline
How does an article about military recruitment for voluntary enlistment share
the core story of a children's book where the main character is drafted? I
find it hard to imagine more different themes.

In Ender's Game, the main character repeatedly tries to out smart the military
and avoid his draft by becoming more and more brutal.

In this article, the military is portrayed as a group of pseudo drug dealers,
seducing poor youths into a life of violence and war crimes.

Really, this article is fascinating in how it assumes that the reader will
agree with it's unstated thesis that entering the military is the worst thing
that could happen to a person.

------
Simulacra
Dare I say haven't they been doing this since the days of War Games?

------
Causality1
This is news? The US military has been actively recruiting online at least
since 2002 when they released the America's Army first-person shooter whose
sequel releases continue to this day.

------
stunt
I know this isn't new.

But, I'm not sure if it's a good idea to recruit least disciplined people who
love shooting more than everything else, and aren't even good at what they
area doing in digital games (otherwise why would they leave it).

I still remember the Apache footage that WikiLeaks published. The gunner was
so enthusiastic to shoot people. "c'mon let's shoot. let me shoot"

He thought he was playing CallofDuty.

------
GaryNumanVevo
> The Twitter account for the US Army e-sports team links to a sparsely
> populated page with register to win! at the top, no details on what one
> could even win, and a sign-up form that, according to a tiny disclosure at
> the bottom of the page, welcomes an eventual harangue by an Army recruiter.
> It allows people as young as 12 to submit the form, but adds a notice on the
> post-submission page that recruiters are not permitted to contact a child
> under the age of 16.

Wow, baiting 13 year olds into signing up for the military via a fake contest
is something straight out of Starship Troopers

~~~
LanceH
Hmm, under 16 not contacted by recruiter.

Starship Troopers specifically discouraged people from joining the military.

~~~
GaryNumanVevo
That's a new take on Starship Troopers I've never heard before.

The entire movie is supposed to be a pro-military propaganda film for that
specific universe. One cannot be a citizen without military service. They even
used child soldiers [0]

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_7FaWnlhS4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_7FaWnlhS4)

~~~
RobRivera
Depends on whether anyone caught the satire. The director grew up under nazi
occupation and modeled the film as such, nazi propaganda.

------
sdinsn
I think this is great- much better than the long-standing recruitment methods
of military band concerts / color guard events / etc.

------
paulie_a
Isn't this just part of their marketing budget? Not exactly news anyways or
certainly anymore. They even had their own videogame.

------
parsimo2010
First: Yes, this is my second comment on this post. I wasn't sure if I should
just edit my comment but this has a different theme so I'll keep them
separate.

You should note when reading this article that it is written from a
progressive/leftist perspective. The author isn't trying to hide it. I want to
comment on some specific points just to offer a little balance and some inside
knowledge from my experience being in the military (experience the author does
not have). I'm not a recruiter and none of this represents an official stance
from any organization, it's my personal views.

\- "None of the military branches or Twitch would comment on paid promotion or
how branches might qualify for prominent placement on Twitch’s homepage" It's
money. Literally just money. There is nothing nefarious on Twitch's part about
selling featured space.

\- I'll admit that the whole promising a chance to win an Xbox controller and
then redirecting to a recruiter is kind of scummy. But if you're going to get
mad at recruiters, get mad at them for lying to recruits about their potential
jobs based on their ASVAB scores. They will tell low scoring kids that they
can do whatever job they desire just to get them to sign papers, when a lot of
jobs have specific requirements that the recruiter knows they don't meet. This
is a really bad thing that recruiters do and it's way worse than lying about
an Xbox controller.

\- But as scummy as recruiters sometimes are, let's acknowledge that the
military can be beneficial to some people. It _really_ does pay for college,
both with tuition assistance while they are serving and with the GI bill after
they get out. For me personally, I have received a bachelor's degree, a
master's degree, and a PhD all without taking a single loan because of the
military. I have also helped tutor airmen taking college math classes while
they were deployed. A lot of them would not have thrived in a traditional
college environment, but while deployed they would work 50+ hours a week and
also knocked out six credit hours of classes in six months. A lot of those
airmen have now finished their bachelor's degrees with zero debt and are now
stellar civilian employees with great lives.

\- The military can help people raise their station in life. This phrasing "a
system by which recruiters target children in unstable and/or disadvantaged
situations. Recruiters take advantage of the poor seeking steady income, the
vulnerable longing for stability, and the undocumented living in fear because
of their citizenship status" screams that it was written by a privileged
person that looks down on poor people but wants to look like they care. The
reality is that a lot of people that came from poor families and broken homes
really appreciate that the military gave them a new family, a good paycheck,
secured their chance at citizenship, etc. No, the military isn't for everyone,
but it's not a nefarious supervillian preying on the underclass of society.

\- The anti-recruiter says "They don’t talk about military sexual trauma." I
do want to acknowledge that this exists and is a problem. But every branch of
the military is making serious attempts at getting better. There are pockets
of absolute filth, but most people in the military want to fix the problem and
do not tolerate sexual abuse or abusers in their units, and act swiftly and
appropriately when it is discovered. I am confident saying that you are now at
far greater risk of being sexually assaulted if you attend a college frat
party than you are joining the military.

\- This part "Despite being older than most of his young viewers, he speaks
like them" is how you should communicate with people. Most groups/cultures
appreciate it when an outsider speaks or makes an attempt to speak the native
language. It's not a bad thing.

That's probably enough commentary. It's true, the military isn't perfect, and
sometimes pulls some shady tricks when recruiting. But this article is
slanted, so keep an open mind when forming an opinion. The truth probably lies
somewhere between the radical left and the radical right, it's up to you to
find it. There are a _lot_ of proud veterans that appreciate their time in the
military and the benefits it brought them. There are too many happy veterans
for them to all be psychopaths or brainwashed or idiots, some of them have to
be decent regular people. There are also a lot of veterans that regret their
time in the military for various reasons. Many of them have real trauma and
legitimate complaints. But I think overall, using Twitch to reach young people
for recruitment isn't a bad thing.

~~~
sdinsn
> "None of the military branches or Twitch would comment on paid promotion or
> how branches might qualify for prominent placement on Twitch’s homepage"
> It's money. Literally just money. There is nothing nefarious on Twitch's
> part about selling featured space.

It also might not be money. I follow a popular twitch streamer (averages 30k+
viewers) who is often featured on the front page. He says he just asks his
contact at Twitch to be put on the front page, no money required. They do have
additional rules though (he isn't allowed to swear too much or they will
remove him from the front page).

------
oehtXRwMkIs
Time for a US Air Force Tactical Timeout.

------
RandomInteger4
This isn't a bad thing.

------
sleavey
As a European I find the patriotic displays before sports matches in the US a
little vomit inducing. It's paid for by the military and not some spontaneous
display of love for the country, and it's a little fascist in that anyone
refusing to take part (Colin Kaepernick? But also people in the crowd who
don't stand) stands out like a sore thumb. Then there's the "let's clap for
veterans" mid-way through the game and whatnot, sometimes bringing one or two
onto the pitch for everyone to gawk at. It seems to me like the whole thing is
a choreographed process to show impressionable youngsters who lack self
respect that they will be respected by society if they wage war on its behalf.

~~~
burfog
That reaction is an unfortunate part of modern European culture, and I'm sorry
to say that the USA encouraged it after World War II. I say "unfortunate"
because it takes away the natural urge for self-preservation and will
ultimately lead to the demise of European culture. Culture dies if it is not
defended.

~~~
dang
Please don't take HN threads further into nationalistic flamewar. Denunciatory
rhetoric is particularly unwelcome here, since it's the opposite extreme of
curious conversation.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

------
29athrowaway
Which percentage of hardcore gamers can pass an army fitness test? or meet
their health requirements, including body fat?

~~~
pests
Many because not all gamers are the stereotypical south park caricature?

~~~
29athrowaway
Even if you are within what most consider normal, the army does not aim for
normal.

You need to be in good shape to make the cut.

~~~
rclayton
You sir, have not seen most soldiers.

~~~
29athrowaway
You sir, have not seen most gamers.

------
marcoperaza
It is right and just for a nation to encourage its young to defend their
mothers and fathers, and children and grandchildren not yet born. Any nation
that sees this as wrong has lost its will to exist and is living on borrowed
time.

~~~
hnick
That's fine. Should it trick them though?

> Twitch viewers in the Army’s channel are repeatedly presented with an
> automated chat prompt that says they could win a Xbox Elite Series 2
> controller—an enhanced controller with customizable options and extra
> paddles for advanced play that costs upward of $200—and a link where they
> can enter the “giveaway.” It, too, directs them to a recruiting form with no
> additional mention of a contest, odds, total number of winners, or when a
> drawing will occur.

~~~
marcoperaza
If that’s true, it’s wrong. And was it a policy or a few losers trying to pad
their numbers? I’ll withhold judgment at least until the official army
response.

