
How to Read Self-Help - tomjcleveland
https://tjcx.me/posts/more-from-self-help/
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jordanpg
My main objection to these types of books is how overly verbose they tend to
be. With a few exceptions, this category of book is built around a nucleus of
few possibly valuable pearls of _wisdom_ , and then 300 pages of filler is
added. Usually lots of anecdotes ("Let me tell you about my friend Alice..."),
checklists, and needless exposition.

If this really is _wisdom_ , it does not follow that it takes 300 pages to
communicate. But I suppose the propounders have to make a living somehow.

To be honest, I don't object to buying the book if it's really got some good
wisdom, but I would be more likely to if they shipped with some sort of
executive summary.

~~~
kristianc
> If this really is wisdom, it does not follow that it takes 300 pages to
> communicate. But I suppose the propounders have to make a living somehow.

The article makes the point that the wisdom really does take much longer to
communicate - a nugget of wisdom like ‘accept yourself’ seems trite when taken
alone, but the examples (presumably filling the other 300 pages) are what
makes the advice actually sink in.

~~~
ahoka
The Enchiridion is like 60 pages and contains the wisdom a lifetime.

~~~
zentiggr
And many read it and can't digest it, let alone put it into practice.

A couple of very capable people I know can hear the story of something that
happened to someone, and they get glazed eyes and can only say "Huh?" Then I
rephrase it as "Imagine you were _______ and then _____ happened and afterward
you were _____" and they're like "Well why didn't you just say that?"

Or the exact opposite.

Or like me. Give me an anecdote about something and I'll "Huh, interesting."
Tell me about the reason you found it interesting, and I'm way more interested
and engaged. Relate it to an event in my own life and now you've got me. But
don't ever try to frame it that way for my wife, she'll get bored after the
first five words.

It's not the message, it's what the listener gets from it.

~~~
ahoka
"It's not the message, it's what the listener gets from it."

I begin to think that if you don't understand the advice, you simply don't
need it _yet_.

~~~
zentiggr
I've sen quite a few quotes around that very point, similar to "You'll get the
teacher you need when you need them" or

"You'll read it again and understand it on a whole different level" or

"The people in your life are there because you need them now. Don't mourn the
loss of an acquaintance, it's because you don't need their lesson anymore"

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brenschluss
I’m a fan of some self-help books. However, a major aspect that this article
misses is that self-help is not a purely mental & cognitive activity. In my
experience, the best books are pathways to action - they are like recipe
cookbooks, where you actually have to try out the thing in order to experience
a change. Neurosurgeons don’t get their wisdom by reading - they practice,
watch other people, assist, perform, and train. They learn by training. Self-
help is the same.

Evaluating self-help books by what we understood by reading it is like trying
to feel full and satiated by reading a cookbook of recipes. The cookbook and
self-help book is there to be acted on.

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znpy
The thing I dislike the most about self-help/self-improvement books (example:
Getting things done, by David Allen) is that they spend a lot of the book
trying to convince you that their method work.

What I'm saying is: I already bough a copy of the book, you don't have to
convince me anymore. I already gave you my money. Just explain me the stuff.

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vincentmarle
The best “self-help” books I’ve read are the ones that are able to formulate
known insights that I already had, but put in much better words than I could
have done myself.

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BeetleB
I recognized only one book from his initial list: Quiet by Susan Cain. It's a
good book. It is not, nor does it claim to be, a self-help book.

The same can be said of Gladwell's books.

There's a bit of strawman stuff going on in the article.

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kody
I recommend the podcast "By The Book" if you're fascinated by/interested in
the self-help book genre. The hosts select a self-help book, try to live it to
the letter, and report their findings.

~~~
nestorherre
Thanks for the heads up. Checking it out atm and it seems valuable.

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attemptone
If we're talking about books that contain a lot of wisdom,Imight suggest
reading 'letters to a young poet' by Rainer Maria Rilke. It left a lasting
impression and I get back to it from time to time. Anyone that wants to get a
teaser can watch: [https://youtu.be/F5tZ8X-EnAg](https://youtu.be/F5tZ8X-EnAg)

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ravenstine
Our culture and our algorithms value quantity. It's the same reason why so
many YouTube videos are now mostly fluff. We assume a video greater than 20
minutes or a book that's over 100 pages is worth something. But a simple essay
or booklet can be worth their weight in gold.

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munificent
The article says that good self-help that leads to wisdom is obvious but hard
to imply.

The natural corollary of that is that you probably already have the necessary
wisdom in your head (because it's obvious). And thus, if you're debating
between spending two hours reading a self-help book and spending those two
hours doing basically anything else, the latter is likely the better choice
because there is at least some chance than in those two hours you will apply
some wisdom or otherwise enrich your life.

The reason self-help books are bad is not because they contain bad
information. It's because reading them burns time that could otherwise be
better spent.

~~~
amurthy1
Just because something is obvious once shown to you doesn't mean it was
immediately present in your mind beforehand, so being made aware of it can
still be valuable.

But agree that there's diminishing returns from these insights and focusing
more on the specific details of your life is usually more impactful.

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Invictus0
Self help that you read and learn is just knowledge; self help that you live
and breathe is understanding. Moving from knowledge to understanding is
difficult: you can tell a kid that the stove is hot but they just don't get it
until they're burnt.

I think sometimes the problem with reading self help is it prescribes too many
changes and people become overwhelmed. Learning to understand incredibly
simple, trite things like self-acceptance can take a really long time. Simply
knowing that you should accept yourself is not enough--ask any depressed
person. There is a lot more work to be done before you can fully understand
that notion.

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blueyes
In my opinion, the medium is the problem. It's easy to read advice. It's hard
to know how to apply general advice to a concrete situation. For that, you
need to be in a live conversation with someone wise or knowledgeable.

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MadWombat
So... now we have an article that helps you read the books that help you...

~~~
BitwiseFool
It's just guides all the way down...

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danvoell
I think that's the first time I have seen the social validity person be
someone I know. I always assume its boilerplate photos. Way to go Mehul!

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paulpauper
There is also Jordan Peterson, who blurs the lines between self-help and
textbook-based knowledge

