
In India, a Rich Food Culture Vanishes from the Train Tracks - kposehn
http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2016/09/17/494258848/in-india-a-rich-food-culture-vanishes-from-the-train-tracks
======
whack
_She held out a plate to me, which I shyly refused. Go on, she urged me. "Food
is never food unless you share it with others, no?" she said. I accepted and
found love at first bite.

I also remember a hearty Punjabi woman we met on another trip. She sighed at
my mother's humble offering of idlis. "I can never make such soft idlis at
home," she said, as I bit into her fragrant alu paratha (a flaky, potato-
stuffed Indian bread), wondering why anyone who could eat such manna every day
would ever want an idli.

These food exchanges would invariably extend into detailed introductions,
exchange of family histories, discovery of common acquaintances, all
culminating in a boisterous game of cards or round of antakshari (contest of
Hindi movie songs) and a final promise to keep in touch._

There's something very beautiful about complete strangers interacting and
engaging deeply with one another, free of any selfish desires besides that of
companionship. There are many things I love about today's world, but that
sense of camaraderie does seem diminished these days.

~~~
witty_username
> sense of camaraderie does seem diminished these days

Why do you think this?

~~~
netsharc
To pick an easy target, smartphones mean you can travel for 3 months and still
talk to your hometown friend every 5 minutes. Everyone is sharing their
moments with their e-friends, instead of with others actually living that
moment too.

~~~
witty_username
How is using a smartphone not actually living?

------
thr0waway1239
The title is a bit misleading - I thought salt was the food which was being
described as vanishing :-)

I am not going to disagree with any of the other commenters. (After all, it
has been said that everything you think is true about India - the exact
opposite is also true somewhere in India)

The question of trust is an important one, maybe even more than the issue of
an economy which is developing (and hence making people more insular) - people
on HN may not be aware, but there was a time (admittedly quite a few years
ago) when there would be literally a news article every single day about the
"biscuit bandits"\- people who offered drugged cookies, which are usually
called biscuits in India, and made off with the victims' valuables.

I just searched online for "biscuit bandits" and found this ironic story -
although I don't know if it is true.

[http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chennai/CBI-
inspecto...](http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chennai/CBI-inspector-
falls-prey-to-biscuit-bandits/articleshow/4849921.cms)

CBI is like the Indian FBI.

(edit: Changed funny to ironic. To answer webtechgal, I meant funny in an
ironic sense. The problem had been going on for many years when this person
who worked in law enforcement was victimized. If it is possible to dupe law
enforcement in this way, one can only imagine how challenging it is for the
regular folks)

~~~
webtechgal
> ...and found this funny story...

No offense, but if you were at the receiving end of things, you probably won't
find it funny. This (the 'biscuit bandit' thing - though I'm reading it
described thus for the first time), has been a menace plaguing gullible
travelers on India trains for many years now.

With millions of people traveling each day on thousands of routes across the
length and breadth of the country, it is happy hunting grounds for the
culprits. In some cases, people end up losing their life savings. Sad,
shocking, but true all the same, even today.

------
rconti
More generally, the Friedman-esque "flattening" of the world has made a lot of
things less special. It wasn't immediately obvious to me what we were losing
at the time, but I now have a certain nostalgia for a time, just a couple
short decades ago, when you could find things in your travels (foreign and
domestic) that you couldn't simply order online or, at least, find on eBay.
Souvenirs make so much less sense and feel so much less special when you don't
need to travel to get them.

Of course, I do not view the past with such rose-colored glasses that I cannot
understand that these goods have a wider market than ever and are accessible
(both in terms of affordability and physical access) to more people than ever.
The businessperson in a small village somewhere sure isn't sad that their
market has become effectively infinite.

After all, many lament the bygone day of air travel when seats were
comfortable and service excellent without realizing that they, like me, would
not have been able to afford to travel by air at all 50 years ago.

To bring it full circle, it sounds like the author is recognizing that, while
that world of nostalgia is lost to her as she is now able to travel by air due
to increasing wealth, so too a poorer generation of Indians is now able to
afford to travel by train (home-cooked meals or not) when before they could
not travel at all.

~~~
CalRobert
It does feel weird to see that the world's souvenirs are largely made in
China. I like my lamps I bought in Istanbul, but I could have bought not just
a similar lamp, but quite possibly an identical one, online.

~~~
csydas
While these issues are in part true, I think part of what maintains the allure
of still going abroad or at least away from your current city is the discovery
of what you want. Everything on the planet may just be a few clicks and a
credit card away, but there are lots of things you don't realize you want
because you didn't know they existed. Going and experiencing other cultures
can help shape this. For a simple example, I never knew I wanted a cezve until
I went to a place where they were more commonly used. Can I buy a cezve in the
US? Absolutely, but I likely wouldn't have since the odds of someone using one
to make coffee in the US is far lower.

That's just a minor example, but it's representative of the allure that travel
can still bring and what it ultimately brings - the chance to see and find
things you didn't know about before. Souvenirs that aren't from shops labeled
"Souvenir" still are usually much more unique and difficult to acquire without
actually going to the source, and even the same activities just done with a
different mindset or with a different cultural attitude can make all the
difference.

~~~
rconti
That's a wonderful point. You still get to experience the culture -- what is
popular and what makes a place unique, and what works well in that place.

Often when I travel, I take note of things I like and wish to buy, but remind
myself not to make an impulse purchase; I can always buy it once I get home,
if I still want it -- and not have to carry it with me for the next 2 weeks!

I think perhaps that very thought process is the reason I began thinking of
travel as less "special".

------
deanCommie
Every western country went through a similar transition in the last 20 years
with a generation remembering the days when kids would bike to their friends
house, people knew each other in neighborhoods even in large cities, and
communities just felt tighter.

It remains to be seen whether this is reversible and we can still bring it
back, whether we actually replaced it with something better (replacing few
strong social bonds with many more weaker bonds), or even whether it's just
artificial nostalgia that ignores the poverty, discrimination and segregation
of the past.

~~~
CalRobert
I biked to my friend's houses when I was a kid, but any more it seems like the
suburbs are just too spread out to make that practical for a lot of kids. The
traffic is also fast-moving and unaccustomed to looking for road users who
aren't also in cars.

~~~
DashRattlesnake
Suburbs also used to have sidewalks, which made it easier and safer for
younger children to explore a little. It just seems so bizarre to me to see
newer ones with either sidewalks only on one side or the street or no
sidewalks at all. I remember being very young and forbidden from crossing the
street, but I pretty much had free reign of the sidewalk on the block I lived
on.

------
1024core
One subtle point that is being missed (from the comments I read) is the
concept of sharing food with strangers. When I came to the US from India (many
years ago), I used to surprised that my American friends would just open up a
pack of chips and start munching away. In India, it would be expected to at
least offer the chips to the people around you.

------
sandGorgon
No it's not vanishing . This food is part of our culture. It still exists in
the city... And is now reinvented to be kitsch [1]

[1] [http://www.finelychopped.net/2015/11/why-breakfast-at-
khar-s...](http://www.finelychopped.net/2015/11/why-breakfast-at-khar-social-
makes-us.html?m=1)

------
s3arch
>In my childhood days, we could walk up to any house on the street in the
middle of a cricket game and demand water. Often we would get rose sherbet or
lemonade instead of plain water.

Oh how much I miss those days....

------
rajeshp1986
I am from India and I can tell you that there are 2 things that I find in
India are very much unique and exotic.

1\. Indian culinary skills are something very rare. I have travelled around of
the world and seen the culinary skills everywhere, nowhere I have seen such a
great usage of spices and variety of dishes that can be produces with mixing
different ingredients. You can have variety of Roti's or parathas(which are
indian breads) by combining different ingredients with breads. Most people
know the India has so many languages and the dialects change every 100 miles,
but only few foreigners know that it is true for food as well. Each state has
its own set of foods. The food habits in North, central, south, east & west
are completely different. There is so much to explore when it comes to food.
we not only have diversity in religion and languages but also in food.

2\. The train journeys in India are most exotic. There is no where in this
world(im talking about developed countries), where you can have open train
cabins. Just take a long cross country train journey and you will feel more
satisfied and contemplated in the end. You might feel a bit uneasy about so
much crowd around you, but just forget everything and look outside the window
and see the passing by mountain and the setting sun. You will feel satisfied
and have the best sleep in your life in that train journey, if it happens to
be an overnight journey. This is when you will realize there is peace in the
midst of all the chaos.

~~~
witty_username
> best sleep in your life in that train journey, if it happens to be an
> overnight journey

The train shakes constantly and AC is too cold in first-class, I haven't slept
great in trains.

------
contingencies
The author said _India 's vast rail network [...] the world's largest_. I was
certain China had more rail so I looked it up. These stats are from 2008, so
China has no doubt advanced even further...

China has 78,000 "route kilometers" and 154,600 "total kilometers" of track.
(The US and Russia have more) India has "stagnated" at 63,000 route
kilometers.[0]

China has 578,000 freight wagons, 44,000 coaches and 18,300 locomotives,
whereas India has 22,5000 freight wagons, 45,000 passenger coaches and 8,300
locomotives.[0]

Indian's railways carry only ~22% of the freight carried by the China.[0]

In 2007 India moved 750 Million MT of freight while China moved 4.5x that (i.e
3,300 Million MT).[0]

India does move more people, but they count intra-Mumbai commuters as rail
passengers, whereas China does not count subway commuters (which would
probably be greater; since there are _many_ large cities with subways).

[0]
[https://streamlinesupplychain.wordpress.com/2008/12/14/chine...](https://streamlinesupplychain.wordpress.com/2008/12/14/chinese-
railways-versus-indian-railways/)

------
webtechgal
I think this whole article is a click-bait or over sensationalism. The culture
that the author alludes to, authoritatively declaring it to have 'vanished',
has not vanished by a long shot.

If one were to take ten random train trips longer than 6 to 8 hours each, I
bet not one will turn out to be sans signs of the rich food culture. In all
probability, it has reduced, but certainly not vanished.

~~~
lake99
> authoritatively declaring it to have 'vanished', has not vanished by a long
> shot.

I agree with you completely. Indians are quite guilty of giving really weird
ideas of India to outsiders. I mean, the culture is vastly different from
western culture, as it is, but adding a thick layer of nostalgia or
romanticism will only make their expectations more fantastical.

~~~
angry_octet
It is pretty clear that the middle classes rarely take long train journeys any
more. Poor people tend to be traveling for work rather than for holidays. So
inevitability there are more individual travelers than families and people are
(wisely) more cautious.

~~~
lake99
The phrase "middle class" is misleading here[1]. If you are talking about
people with IT industry jobs, they certainly have enough disposable income to
spend on flights or cars. Even lower income migrants travel home for major
holidays, much like the author herself did when she was young.

[1] [http://qz.com/578793/indias-middle-class-is-almost-
impossibl...](http://qz.com/578793/indias-middle-class-is-almost-impossible-
to-define/)

------
tn13
Like everything else there are grey areas here too.

As a child we were taught food is scared because people put efforts into it
over years. In fact we uttered a prayer that meant "Food is God and consuming
is worship." But I strongly disagree with that when people talk about food in
train.

I travelled in the general/sleeper classes often and so many times people
would generously offer food and then steal your belonging because the food was
spiked. A lot of families would carry their gas stoves in the train and
fucking cook food in the running train which is a fire hazard. It was as if
these people would not eat outside food for one day.

People fought, got violent when confronted.

Today most trains have pantry cars and an amazing food culture of railway
stations that changes every few 100 miles. I would say enjoy that.

------
yalogin
That is something sorely missing in the US. People don't want to talk to
someone they don't know. Or may be just not to me :)

~~~
bogomipz
Thats patently untrue. The US is actually very big on small talk and causal
chatter. You can't really make a blanket statement about a country the size of
the US. New Yorkers will strike up a conversation with total stranger without
thinking twice. In the deep south it would be considered rude to not say hello
if you were passing someone on your block or street.

~~~
vinay427
This reminds me of my flight returning from San Jose, CA to the upper Midwest,
my current home. Within a few moments of my choosing an aisle seat, someone
(who I later found out was from my hometown) joined me in the neighboring
middle seat and immediately struck up a conversation. It was about his
recommendation of a book I had in my lap that he had previously read. It was
then that I realized this type of occurrence hadn't happened throughout the
time I was in CA, and was a welcome reminder of home. Perhaps it was just
coincidence that a stranger confronted me on my flight home, but I certainly
have perceived people here to be a good deal more willing to talk to strangers
and seemingly less aloof.

------
suyash
This will give you a better idea of what it was like:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI_47ru03Z8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI_47ru03Z8)

------
sakopov
I had the exact same memories of traveling by train in Russia. Food, food,
food everywhere, at each stop. Unfortunately it's all gone now (after decades
upon decades) due to new sanitary requirements under Putin. I don't remember
getting sick or heard about anyone getting sick from the food. It was always
the highlight of each trip, even if your family's bringing food (usually
wrapped in foil) you still get out and try piroshki and pirogi on the way.

------
shafiqissani
Anybody else feel hungry after reading this article?

~~~
andrewvijay
Hungry and also incredibly sad some reason.

------
rayiner
Sounds . . . pungent.

I used to take the Amtrak every day from Union Station in DC to Penn Station
in Baltimore. Friday evening trains were always full of people who brought
dinner onboard. The food smells were awful--there is a reason Amtrak's Cafe
Car only sells bland food. Being in a train without air conditioning and the
smell of curry permeating the air sounds like my own personal hell.

~~~
rconti
I cannot fathom why some people are so annoyed by the smell of food, which is
of course a necessity of life. It seems like the kind of thing people CHOOSE
to be annoyed by because of some imagined sense of politeness.

Regardless, I suspect if you were in train packed full of people from various
socioeconomic backgrounds on a hot day, the smell of food would be the LEAST
offensive scent on offer.

~~~
sliverstorm
Some food smells terrible, I don't think it's more complicated than that. Do
you relish the smell of stale malt liquor at close quarters?

~~~
wj
Smell is very subjective. What you consider terrible others might consider
intoxicating.

If there is one thing I learned from moving to the American Midwest is "to
each their own." Everybody has their own palate, tastes, wants, and dreams.
Nobody is "wrong" and keeping an open mind is always the best policy.

------
ceilingscorpion
One of the things that Eastern cultures gets so right, that seems so foreign
in the West. The last time I shared a meal with a stranger was in college

------
known
[http://foodnetindia.in/whats-in-your-food/](http://foodnetindia.in/whats-in-
your-food/)

