
Impossible Foods says it is close to finishing a large-scale production facility - prostoalex
https://qz.com/939320/a-startup-says-it-can-now-produce-enough-for-4-million-meatless-burgers-a-month/
======
jkarneges
I haven't tried Impossible Foods yet, but I have been dabbling with Beyond
Meat (both companies backed by Bill Gates apparently).

In case anyone is curious about this product category, here are my thoughts on
Beyond Meat:

Beyond Meat has a normal burger replacement. Other than the factory-formed
shape (easy to fix I'd think), the texture and taste approach the real thing.
It probably wouldn't pass a blind test and it's expensive, but if they got the
cost down and In-n-out started cooking with it I could see myself preferring
it.

They also have a healthier burger (Beast). This one's not trying to be as
convincing and isn't going to convert any carnivores. I don't really recommend
it unless you must eat something healthy in patty form.

Then there's the Beefy Crumble. This is a ground beef substitute that isn't in
patty form. It's on the healthy side and isn't going to fool anyone either,
but I use it all the time as it's nice to have another protein in the rotation
(all the Beyond stuff uses pea protein). Easy to throw into burritos or pasta.

Looking forward to the future of this space.

------
linkregister
[https://www.impossiblefoods.com/faq/](https://www.impossiblefoods.com/faq/)

    
    
        Nutrition Facts
        Serving Size (85g)
        Servings Per Container about 85
        -------------
        Amount Per Serving
        Calories 220    Calories from Fat 120
            Calories from Saturated Fat 100
        -------------
                         % Daily Value*
        Total Fat 13g            20%
          Saturated Fat 11g      55%
          Trans Fat 0g
        Cholesterol 0mg           0%
        Sodium 380mg             16%
        Potassium 250mg           7%
        Total Carbohydrate 6g     2%
           Dietary Fiber < 1g     4%
           Sugars 1g
        Protein 19g
        -------------
        Vitamin A 0%  - Vitamin C 25%
        Calcium 2%    - Iron 10%
        Thiamin 1260% - Riboflavin 15%
        Niacin 20%    - Vitamin B6 10%
        Zinc 15%      - Vitamin B12 50%

~~~
saycheese
This is easier to read on mobile:
[https://www.impossiblefoods.com/images/faq/nutrition-
facts.p...](https://www.impossiblefoods.com/images/faq/nutrition-facts.png)

EDIT: Here's a link to the FDA comment I deleted, but is reference in the
comment below:
[https://www.fda.gov/downloads/Food/IngredientsPackagingLabel...](https://www.fda.gov/downloads/Food/IngredientsPackagingLabeling/GRAS/NoticeInventory/ucm427026.pdf)

~~~
linkregister
Your deleted comment from the FDA filing was interesting. I also couldn't make
much of it due to unfamiliarity with the terminology.

My favorite part was the "this is submitted on a certified Virus-free CD".

Original comment:

 _> Not sure what to make of this doc:
[https://www.fda.gov/downloads/Food/IngredientsPackagingLabel...](https://www.fda.gov/downloads/Food/IngredientsPackagingLabeling/GRAS/NoticeInventory/ucm427026.pdf*)

~~~
saycheese
Of note in that filing is that Impossible Foods later requested that the FDA
not review that PDF linked to above and the FDA agreed to stop reviewing it:

[https://www.fda.gov/Food/IngredientsPackagingLabeling/GRAS/N...](https://www.fda.gov/Food/IngredientsPackagingLabeling/GRAS/NoticeInventory/ucm489241.htm)

~~~
linkregister
I hope you don't mind that I resurrected your comment; I thought it added
value.

~~~
saycheese
Nope, don't mind; deleted it because I could figure out what it was.

------
LeanderK
This is something i am really (REALLY!) excited about. I am a Vegetarian
because of the environmental impact, but the desire for the taste is still
there (been a few years). All the substitutes i have tried (until now) were
bad and left me disappointed and i still have to fight the urge to order a
good old schnitzel at a restaurant.

EDIT: if somebody asks why i am being so strict...i will stop being strict
when we start living sustainable on a global scale. I don't see that happen in
my lifetime. Until then being a strict vegetarian has a good impact on the
people around me. I don't try to persuade anybody, i will even grill your
meat, i am just a vegetarian for myself and the planet.

~~~
subpixel
I've scaled back my meat consumption radically in the last six years or so and
in my experience, taste is just a factor of habit. Change your habits and you
can change what you perceive to be delicious.

Anecdotally, eating meat infrequently has resulted in me finding chicken and
turkey generally flavorless and gross when I'm in a position where I must eat
them. And while the smell of a burger cooking somewhere is still nice, the
smell of bacon being cooked in our building has gone from sublime to rank.

When I do eat meat that I find tasty (burger, steak, kebabs) I've slowly come
to appreciate that less is best, and more can turn my stomach. A thin patty
ala Shake Shack is vastly preferable to an $18, 3-inch tall burger at a hip
restaurant.

I haven't yet come around to vegan cheese. But based on other changes I can't
rule that out.

~~~
rboyd
I'm with you on the cheese. I've only found one vegan cheese that I like, it's
Follow Your Heart Provolone. If you haven't tried it yet, give it a shot!
Great replacement on pizza, burgers.

------
glibgil
I tried it. It tastes good because of the heme, but it tastes wheaty
otherwise. I think most people would like it, but not going for gluten-free
recipe seems shortsighted

~~~
twic
Where do they get the haem? Yeast or something?

~~~
glibgil
Yeah, GMO yeast

------
news_to_me
I wonder how this kind of burger compares to lab-grown burgers. I would
imagine this process is significantly cheaper than lab-grown – in which case,
why don't we just replace all burgers with this?

~~~
entee
The major problem with lab-grown burgers is that cell culture is quite
difficult and expensive to do at even small scale. There are obviously efforts
to radically decrease those costs, but some things are going to be quite hard
to do cheaply and at large scale.

For example, on their own, cells have zero defense against invading
bacteria/fungus. And yet they're being grown in high-nutrient media where any
bacteria would thrive and possibly outcompete the growing meat cells. So you
probably need a very sterile environment, which isn't so easy to do at very
large scale.

In contrast, these burgers are made using materials we know how to handle
safely and can produce at large scale. These should be quite a bit easier to
get to market. As for taste, I think both have challenges, but can't speak as
much to that because I haven't had either.

Full disclosure: Pat Brown was on my PhD committee in grad school

~~~
WalterSear
[http://www.sciencealert.com/lab-grown-burger-patty-cost-
drop...](http://www.sciencealert.com/lab-grown-burger-patty-cost-drops-
from-325-000-to-12)

~~~
entee
Yup, the relevant part of that article:

"Post and his team are now working on replacing the serum [fetal calf serum]
with something that doesn’t rely on animal products, and told the ABC that
while they’re making great process, it’ll be at least a couple of decades
before they can scale the technique up and make it commercially viable."

If you're using fetal calf serum (FCS), you're definitely not particularly
vegetarian, nor are you reducing the need for physical cows. Let's assume you
can eventually get rid of that requirement though.

Cost estimates for something that is quote "decades" away isn't quite
meaningful. The hard part is scale, and it sounds like they're quite aware of
that problem.

Finally, $11 per burger is still insanely expensive. I can get a burger, with
bun, cooked and handed to me on a platter for $1 at McDonald's. It's an
enormous challenge to get lab grown meat down to an industrially relevant
cost.

I'd still bet on Impossible Foods's approach.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Finally, $11 per burger is still insanely expensive

Yeah, the price ($80/kg) is apparently quoted down to a quarter-poind burger
portion of bulk "meat"; it's about $44/lb, which is around 11× the average
_retail_ price of ground beef (about $4/lb.) [0]

> I can get a burger, with bun, cooked and handed to me on a platter for $1 at
> McDonald's.

To be fair, the "hamburger" on the McDonald's menu is a 1/10 lb. (precooked
weight) patty, which is much smaller than what is priced out.

[0] [https://www.bls.gov/regions/mid-
atlantic/data/AverageRetailF...](https://www.bls.gov/regions/mid-
atlantic/data/AverageRetailFoodAndEnergyPrices_USandMidwest_Table.htm)

~~~
entee
Fair enough on 1/10 vs 1/4 pound. Better McDonalds number: they will sell me a
quarter pounder with cheese for $3.79, and that includes all the logistics,
preparation, overhead etc.

And yeah your bulk price is a better number anyway :)

Fast food is mind blowingly cheap though, and yeah maybe higher end things
will help move down the cost curve, but I think the technical difficulties
around cell culture are truly massive. I'd be much more interested in things
like making meat-like components out of yeast (easier to culture) than taking
full on myocytes and culturing those to get a burger.

------
Taek
Does anyone know how the nutritional content compares? For me, the fact that I
can cook a 300g burger that, after trimmings, is 1000+ calories is a big deal.
Also the massive amounts of fat and protein, and the low carb profile. All
these things make burgers a great meal choice for me (taste matters too
obviously).

If these fake burgers are cheaper, have similar macros and calorie density,
and are better for the environment, I am super interested.

~~~
linkregister
A 300g Impossible Burger would be

(from 85g serving size):

    
    
        300g / 85g = 3.53
        Calories 220 * 3.53 = 777
        Fat 13g * 3.53 = 45.9g
        Protein 19g * 3.53 = 67.1g
        Carbs 6g * 3.53 = 21.2g

~~~
linkregister
300g Beef Burger (source: wikipedia)

    
    
       Calories 612
       Fat 48g
       Protein 45g
       Carbs 0g

~~~
Taek
That's without the trimmings. Add buns, cheese, bacon, sauce, etc. and you can
easily hit 1000.

------
Dotnaught
I've tried the Impossible Burger twice at Cockscomb Restaurant in San
Francisco. It's almost identical in taste to a good beef burger, when prepared
by a professional chef at least. But at $19, it's not competitive with a $7.75
Super Duper Burger or any cheaper variants one might find at In-N-Out or fast
food joints further down the ladder.

~~~
pan69
I might be more fair to compare their $19 Impossible Burger with their $15
Hamburger rather than an In-N-Out burger. I haven't tasted an Impossible
Burger (yet) but I'd be more than happy to pay the extra $4 if its "almost
identical in taste to a good beef burger".

[http://cockscombsf.com/menu/lunch-menu/](http://cockscombsf.com/menu/lunch-
menu/)

------
pier25
> wheat, coconut oil, potatoes, and heme

Replacing meat for carbs is not a great idea.

Edit: I was wrong. 200cal only have 6g of carbs which is pretty good IMO.

~~~
pault
What if animal fats are too heavy for your personal digestive system and you
aren't obsessed with your BMI?

~~~
pier25
> What if animal fats are too heavy for your personal digestive system

You could get vegetable fats from avocados, olive oil, etc. Fats are essential
to life.

> and you aren't obsessed with your BMI?

It's a myth that eating fats will increase your BMI. It's eating too many
calories that causes that.

~~~
pault
> You could get vegetable fats from avocados, olive oil, etc. Fats are
> essential to life.

I agree, those and coconut are my preferred sources of fat.

> It's a myth that eating fats will increase your BMI. It's eating too many
> calories that causes that.

This is the opposite of my intended meaning. I was referring to GP's blanket
statement that replacing meat with carbs is bad. The "BMI obsession" snark is
a response to people advocating extreme low carb diets as if they are
inherently healthier (rarely are the components of that diet discussed) than a
diverse diet of unrefined foods (including the occasional carbohydrate). Keto
is great for showing off your six pack. I don't think that means that it is by
default healthy.

------
thoreauway
I've had the hamburger before in NY (~$9 w/ fries) and it's pretty delicious.
Probably would have thought it was real beef if I hadn't already known. I'm
extremely bullish on IF.

------
libertymcateer
Headline is a dramatic overstatement.

> In an announcement today, the Bay Area company said it was _close to
> finishing_ a large-scale production facility in Oakland, California that
> _can_ produce as much as 1 million lb (454,000 kg) of meatless meat a month.

1\. Facility not done.

2\. Facility not tested.

3\. Capacity not demonstrated.

4\. Regulatory approval -- pending?

This headline needs editing.

~~~
WalterSear
> 4\. Regulatory approval -- pending?

Their product is already on the market, so I don't see how there would be any
more red tape other than certifying the new facilities.

~~~
libertymcateer
> any more red tape other than certifying the new facilities

That is a very substantial amount of potential red tape.

------
mamon
This was clearly inspired by Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode "Doublemeat
Palace" :)

