
Startup Founders Don't Sleep (How many all-nighters do you pull a month?) - transburgh
http://www.gobignetwork.com/wil/2007/8/22/startup-founders-dont-sleep/10188/view.aspx
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Goladus
Loss of sleep is cumulative. After 3 days, you might think you're getting by
fine on 4 hours of sleep per night, but it's catching up to you. You start
saying things that don't make sense, or pausing inexplicably during
conversations. You start zoning out when reading, and make decisions based on
habit rather than logic. Small inconveniences start making you angry, and
complex problems are baffling. Organization becomes impossible. Your muscles
are weak and uncoordinated, you bump into things like you're drunk. You'll
begin to stop caring, you'll stop enjoying things. Over time, it just gets
worse and worse, until you actually start hallucinating.

Adrenaline can get you through some difficult situations, but in the long run
health problems will catch up to you.

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cperciva
I often spend 12-16 hours a day writing code (or, depending on where I'm at,
putting pen to paper while I convince myself that the way I've found for
solving a particular problem will work), but I don't rob myself of my 8 hours
of sleep.

I've found from experience -- both while writing code and during my doctorate
-- that the quality of work I produce when I'm sleep-deprived drops
dramatically. If I'm lucky, I look at my work the next morning, decide that
it's garbage, and throw it out; if I'm unlucky, I end up throwing out said
sleep-deprived work a few days later, after spending many hours tracking down
heisenbugs.

YMMV, of course -- some code is sufficiently straightforward that you can
write it in your sleep, or (even better) has sufficiently explosive failure
modes that you can test it in the morning and (assuming it doesn't explode)
know that despite your lack of sleep, the code is good. And, of course, just
as some people can code perfectly well while drunk or high on drugs, some
people are entirely unaffected by not getting enough sleep.

But as for me and the code I write? I'll stay away from the drugs and make
sure I get enough sleep, thanks.

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brlewis
"I'm a startup Founder, and I don't sleep, I build. If I stop now, there will
be someone else to replace me -- maybe you."

He forgot to add, "But if I destroy your productivity by convincing you to go
sleep-deprived, then I'll be safe."

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pg
This is romantic exaggeration. I would never advise founders to sleep less
than they need, except in brief emergencies. Sleeping 8 hours a day leaves you
16 to work, and that should be more than enough.

~~~
wschroter
then clearly that's the only approach to take.

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alex_c
Ahh, entrepreneur grandstanding.

Would that article make any more sense if it was about olympic athletes?

"I don't sleep, I train. How can I go to sleep when there's so much training
to do? While my competitors are asleep and resting, I'm getting in an extra
lap around the track. I'll sleep after I get a gold medal."

~~~
Goladus
I wonder if it was meant to be a parody?

~~~
wschroter
I was half kidding when I wrote it, but apparently it was only a parody of my
obsessive personality.

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portLAN
I can't count the number of times I stayed up late chasing a bug, only to have
it be something so simple that I would've caught it in 20 minutes or less if
I'd just gotten a normal amount of sleep and looked at it the next morning.

You just get slower and slower as you stay up, until you're sitting there
staring at the screen for 5 minutes before you remember what you're doing.

Any lack of sleep at all will also cost you in productivity the next day. By
having discipline to _let it be_ , you can spend 20 minutes on it the next day
instead of hours on it tonight and messing up your productivity all day
tomorrow.

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myoung8
Quality, not quantity.

The hard part is realizing that quality is dropping as quantity increases. It
may even be a small drop in quality, but if you add all of those drops up over
time, it makes a big difference.

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falsestprophet
None. Don't be ridiculous, sleep is pretty important.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep>

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wschroter
I was writing about sleep as a metaphor for motivation and commitment. I
should have been more literal.

Thanks for informing me that sleep is important.

~~~
brlewis
With all the references to "extra hours" it was inevitable that readers would
take the sleep part literally.

Paul Graham usually runs his essays by a few people before he publishes them.
You might want to start doing the same with your writing.

~~~
wschroter
It's funny, people tend to read the articles differently.

There's a thread in my comments where people pretty much get it, and then
another in the forums where people seem to understand it.

It's good to see the different perspectives.

~~~
pg
> There's a thread in my comments where people pretty much get it, and then
> another in the forums where people seem to understand it.

They didn't get the article with "(How many all-nighters do you pull a
month?)" appended to the title.

~~~
wschroter
paul - that pretty much ties into an earlier thread a few days ago talking
about why admins edit the titles.

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jsjenkins168
Sleep deprivation is terrible for productivity. Staying awake for 20hrs
without sleep puts you in a mental state comparable to being over intoxicated
over the legal limit.

If you want to stay awake for longer periods and retain mental acuteness,
sleep polyphasically.

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ahsonwardak
If you manage your time and life right, you shouldn't have to be sleep-
deprived. Of course, that means you have to schedule your priorities, and some
things won't make it as part of your life. I've gotten my Bachelor's and
Master's, and I never had to pull an all-nighter beyond my first semester. I
don't anticipate any all-nighters in the PhD program either.

One of the founders of the consulting firm that I worked for talked about
never working past 6 or 7 PM. He never ate out, and spent that time working.
You can always work more in your day without sacrificing your sleep and/or
health.

At the same time, if we could all survive on less sleep, it'd be nice.

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transburgh
How many all-nighters do you pull a month?

I actually get a little excited when I know I will have a night that I stay up
late and get a ton done.

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Harj
keeping yourself sleep deprived is a false economy. you need sleep in order to
function at your maximum level of productivity. it's better to function at
100% productivity 66% of the time than it is to function at 50% for 100% of
the time.

exception to this is when you have a specific deadline that needs meeting and
only way to get there is working through the night.

~~~
juwo
all deadlines, except death, are artificial.

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mattmaroon
Even beyond lack of sleep, which I think we all agree is bad in the literal
sense, the law of diminishing returns sets in at some point and makes working
further counter productive. The exact amount, of course, depends on who you
are and what exactly you're doing, but it's probably much far lower than most
people would guess.

I've done a lot of research on this, through both reading and self-
experimentation, and have come to the conclusion that there aren't very many
people who would benefit from hacking more than 60 hours a week in short
bursts, or more than 50 sustainably. I'd take a hacker who works hard 5 days a
week, 10 hours a day, and spends the rest of his time partying over one who
sits in front of a computer 12 hours a day, 7 days a week any time.

There's a wealth of information on the topic out there, and studies are
published all of the time. It's definitely the sort of thing one should look
into when trying to increase their efficiency.

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Mistone
i really liked the article, it sets a good tone for the idea that the more you
can push yourself the farther down field you get. I remember a quote from
somewhere, I think it was in the Godfather, "you have to be willing to do what
the others wont."

and that is what I got from the article

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aswanson
If he was really that stingy and focused with his time he wouldn't have even
wasted any to write that post. Anyone who has done non-trivial development
knows that it is a marathon, not a sprint. Sleep is essential.

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daniel-cussen
This might work. Over the course of high school, I had to stay up to do a lot
of easy, but time-intensive work. This is, of course, diametrically different
from coding.

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dfranke
A lot fewer than I pulled while in college.

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richcollins
Even 16 hours a day will burn you out after a while. I try to work 70 to 80
hours a week.

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rms
An off-label prescription for Modafinil will let you skip as much sleep as you
want and remain productive. You just have to start worrying about the
cumulative health effects of minimal sleep.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil>

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eusman
i make important thoughts and take decisions during sleep if that counts! So,
my 5-6 hour sleep doesn't get in my way

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juwo
zero. my brain shuts down after 11 pm. (unless I am anxious about something -
not programming related).

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rokhayakebe
zzz. Oops i missed that, I was sleeping

