
We live in Aleppo, here’s how we survive - redwood
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/10/21/how-to-survive-in-aleppo/
======
cloakandswagger
Take a step back and you'll realize just how feverish the US media propaganda
machine is right now re: Syria.

Every day we have new pictures of bloodied/dead Syrian children, articles
describing the horrors of war and frantic warnings of a genocide that could
happen any day now.

Now ask yourself: Why did you hear practically nothing about Syria for the
past 4 years? Moreover, is anyone under the illusion that war _isn 't_
horrible? Did you think it was only strong, burly men getting killed before
you saw that video of the kid in the ambulance?

I'm not trying to take away from this story, but I also see it for what it is:
manipulative propaganda being pushed by a country that has a proxy war to win.

Finally, ask yourself this: Do you think all of the guns, bombs and technology
we've provided to "freedom fighters" in Syria were only used to kill strong,
burly men?

~~~
Fluid_Mechanics
What a lovely comment to see on HN regarding the genocidal suppression of a
popular revolt. I suppose it's very tempting to falsely equivocate both sides
when you have a tendency to distrust your own government.

~~~
apsec112
The major rebel forces in Syria are not a "popular revolt". They are
professional, foreign-backed hardline Islamic extremists (which is why they
could hold out for five years against Assad, Iran, and Hezbollah).

"The alliance was formed in March 2015 under the supervision and coordination
of Saudi cleric Dr Abdullah al-Muhaysini. It consists of Islamist rebel
factions mainly active in the Idlib Governorate, with some factions active in
the Hama and Latakia Governorates. In the course of the following months, it
seized most of Idlib province. It is actively supported by Saudi Arabia and
Turkey.

In an October 2015 publication, the Washington D.C.-based Institute for the
Study of War considered Jaish al-Fatah as one of the "powerbrokers" in Idlib,
Hama, Daraa and Quneitra provinces, though not in Damascus province, being
primarily "anti-regime" and "anti-Hezbollah" but not necessarily "anti-ISIS".

At its founding, Jaish al-Fatah contained seven members, three of them—al-
Nusra, Ahrar al-Sham, and Jund al-Aqsa—were directly connected to al-Qaeda or
have a similar ideology. With Ahrar al-Sham being the largest group, al-Nusra
and Ahrar al-Sham together were reported to represent 90 percent of the
troops." \-
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_of_Conquest](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_of_Conquest)

Discussion on Al Jazeera Arabic, "Should We Kill All Alawites?". (Alawites are
the largest group in Syria backing the Assad government.)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULtNYSUqYHw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULtNYSUqYHw)

------
bedros
al nusra front, a terrorist group affiliated with Al Qaeda is controlling
eastern aleppo. it's such a shame that washingtonpost is becoming the
propaganda outlet for Al Qaeda.

I personally know friends who've been suffering from Al Nusra front shelling
their residential areas in Aleppo for the last three year; The majority of
Aleppo residents are supportive of the Syrian gov and Russia finally, going
after the terrorists; except for about 10% who are supportive of Al Qaeda and
al nusra front.

in the following video, a british journalist goes to Aleppo, and meets with
people there, and you'll be shocked that the TRUTH is exact opposite of what
propaganda outlet like WAPO, CNN, etc. want to spread.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8mA0h7dCKI#t=255](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8mA0h7dCKI#t=255)

------
jwtadvice
Quick aside to the fact that in Aleppo, Damascus, Kirkuk, and Daraa, and Mosul
and that many other places in Syria and Iraq are horrible places to be.

The situation in Syria as it stands today is complicated, sure. But it's also
pretty easy to summarize why Aleppo and its outcome is important in the proxy
war.

Aleppo is a major population center and a "hub" in the spoke-and-hub network
of cities and towns in Syria. When - and if - there is a political transition
for the government of Syria, the forces that stand in Aleppo will have an
outsized influence in the outcome.

In this manner Aleppo has been an important battleground for the current
administration in Damascus and the Russians who have national security
interests in the secular government of Syria. For the same reasons the
opposition - the rebel and terrorist forces in Syria - have been trying to
take and hold Aleppo.

The United States and Russia had been trying to broker a ceasefire, but
ultimately the city's value to proxy forces and foreign backers proved too
much and the mutual trust between great powers too little for a negotiation to
be reached.

Now that the ceasefire is off the table, the United States does not have a
legal option for intervening. It has not ruled out - and may be engaged today
in - covert illegal activity with respect to attacks on Syrian Government
forces and infrastructure. On the other hand Russia was invited in by a
government that is still internationally recognized and can intervene in
Aleppo on a legal international basis.

One option open to the United States is to try to intervene in Aleppo on
account of a humanitarian basis, in which case it needs public opinion and
material support to bolster a legal argument.

This is the reason that the United States and its media companies have been
focusing so much on the situation in Aleppo, narrating it as a particularly
horrible instance of the civil war.

The same sort of narrative campaign, it is easy to notice, is absent from
reporting on Sanaa (Yemen), on the current operations in Mosul, of the Turkish
(illegal?) military invasions of Greece and Iraq, of US bombing in Northern
Syria, of Kabul and of military operations in Afghanistan, or of the mass
innocent casualties in a number of places around the world from the Predator
Drone mass assassination programme.

Aleppo is a tragedy. Truly. The proxy war in Syria - and all of the regional
and foreign power who have made it worse by pumping weapons and funding into
it (including the US) - is a horror, and an acknowledgement that we still
aren't at a place with our civilization where we can resolve tensions of
competing international interest with rules, peace, diplomacy, and mutual
benefit.

~~~
BurningFrog
> _invasions of Greece_

What?

~~~
jwtadvice
Said Greek islands that Turkey (under Attaturk) lost when it settled a peace
treaty (Treaty of Lausanne) after WWI and which Turkey has had a habit of
violations and military interventions of since that time (which has continued
to this day).

Know that the invasion of Iraq is of course much more serious, as the are all
of the others in the list. The inclusion of the Greek islands was just
verbosity from yours truly, and not intended to imply more than a touchpoint
for those familiar with Turkey's illegal incursions.

Please don't let that distract you from the more important general topic
written above. If you want ignore the aside about Greece - it's not important
to the overall message.

~~~
low_battery
I presume you are a young Greek. Only that could explain your perception of
events.

~~~
seizethecheese
As if one's views are enough to presuppose one's identity.

~~~
low_battery
Believe me, sometimes it is, I am 99% sure in this case.

------
StavrosK
It's odd how posts like these can bring things in perspective for idle
observers. Before reading this, war was something that happened "somehow". A
building somewhere gets bombed, but there's no context, it might as well have
been a building floating in nothingness.

After reading this, you realize it's happening to people like you. One day,
they were minding their own business, studying, going to work, doing
everything you do, and the next their house got bombed and now they don't know
whether they'll be alive next month.

The world sucks.

~~~
jacobolus
[http://metatalk.metafilter.com/16524/History-from-a-
witness](http://metatalk.metafilter.com/16524/History-from-a-witness)

------
clarkmoody
Foreign policy recommendations regarding the Middle East:

1) The only winning move is not to play.

~~~
M_Grey
There is a cost to not playing the game, as Europe is in the early stages of
discovering. Just like there was a cost to the US, to let Haiti go to hell,
paid for in immigration. The difference is that Haiti is _tiny_ , and the
Middle East and North Africa are _huge_.

~~~
ebfe
Couldn't they just not take in immigrants? This seems like a false dichotomy.

~~~
M_Grey
How are they going to achieve that? Naval blockade? Shoot on site? Millions
and millions of highly motivated people are going to overcame anything short
of overwhelming violence.

~~~
nostromo123
And yet, it will come to that: Europe just cannot take in tens of millions of
people in a couple of years. Once the social systems start collapsing, even
the unthinkable (armed borders and the like) will become an option.

Nice? No. But what's the alternative, committing state-level suicide? That's
why the first rule of rescue is ensuring the safety of the rescuer: if the
rescuer is down, there's no hope left for the victim. And if Europe goes down,
that will not help any migrants, either.

~~~
M_Grey
Europe doesn't have the money or resources to maintain that for the decades
and decades it would take. Resisting the inevitable is suicide, not the other
way around. Is it going to be pleasant or easy? No, it's going to be difficult
and fraught with upheaval, but it's the result of choices we've all made for
decades. Time to pay the piper.

------
danieltillett
There are no good guys here, just various variation of bad. You just get to
choose which bad guys you back.

Personally I find it hard to believe that the USA is backing Al Qaida (or what
ever they have decided to call themselves this week), but that is middle east
politics for you.

~~~
M_Grey
Why is that hard to believe? The USA created Al Qaeda in our first foray into
Afghanistan; they're literally blowback from training mujahedin to fight the
Soviets.

~~~
danieltillett
Even if the USA helped create Al Qaeda (rather controversial) I still find it
hard to believe that anyone in the USA thinks it is a good idea to support
them today.

~~~
M_Grey
In what way is "they're literally blowback from training mujahedin to fight
the Soviets." controversial? I'd love to hear this...

------
maxxxxx
It's amazing what these people have to go through. I hope one day there will
be an agreement that such bombings are not acceptable no matter who is doing
the bombing.

~~~
DKnoll
There is the Convention on Cluster Munitions, which bans cluster bombing
outright, but conveniently neither Russia or Syria signed it.

Even if they did, international treaties/law banning weapons tend to go out
the window in times of war. Take white phosphorus for example, which is banned
by the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons for use as an incendiary
weapon but has reportedly used by the US, Israel, Ukraine, Armenia, Taliban
and Iraq under Saddam Hussein for such purpose.

It's a mad world.

~~~
arjn
The saudis are also currently using cluster munitions against yemenis.

------
josu
>After all that — the beatings, the airstrikes, the war, the bombings — I want
to live in a free Aleppo. I want to stay here, where I was born, all my life.
It’s my right.

I really can't understand his reason to remain in Aleppo after 4 years of war.
I could probably see his point at the beginning of the conflict, but once the
war has been going on for such a long time, what is the point? He is playing
Russian roulette every day; "It was an airstrike less than 100 meters behind
". Yes, the city is under siege, and currently it may be almost impossible to
leave, but that doesn't seem to be his reason for staying.

~~~
GuiA
Very similar to the people who had to be physically forced to evacuate during
the recent floodings in the south of the US, because they felt that somehow
they'd be okay.

Humans tend to be very irrational in times of duress, particularly when
sentimental things are at stake, like the house you raised your family in.

------
meric
I hope Al Qaeda capitulates quickly to reduce civilian casulties, the Syrian
government forces capture the city and restore stable government.

------
ozgurozkan
I am from Turkey and I am really uncomfortable about the situation in Middle
East. I can pretty say that there is only one reality, children die. There is
no second reality here.

------
mstade
This is such a tough read. :o(

~~~
parthdesai
makes it worse when you see how beautiful Aleppo used to be. Makes me sick to
stomach thinking what some humans are capable of doing for money.

------
pcardh0
Thank God this is in the newspaper. Now Barack Obama will know about it. Maybe
he can make a speech and end the war. I think there is a prize for that.

~~~
Gibbon1
Not just any newspaper, the Washington Post!

> My wife and I are among about 250,000 people trapped here in the besieged
> eastern section of the city.

Stopped reading right there.

~~~
seizethecheese
Why?

~~~
Gibbon1
Because after four years of war the number of people in Eastern Aleppo isn't
even close to the pre-war population. The media says, 250,000 to 300,000.
Probably more like a tenth that currently.

Meanwhile there is 1 to 1.4 million people in Western Aleppo.

~~~
seizethecheese
Thanks for the reply. Were there 250-300K people living there before the war,
or was this an estimate at some earlier point in the war?

~~~
Gibbon1
I do not know. And I have no real first person information on Syria except for
one friend who is half Syrian who has some family in Homs[1]. However I'm
dubious about the 300,000 number since it just seems to be reflexively
repeated for years. And because sounds like the number of people escaping
Eastern Aleppo is a small trickle. Despite that it's barely a functioning city
at this point.

Also there is this.

> While aid groups estimate anywhere from 175,000 to 300,000 people still live
> in eastern rebel-held Aleppo, it is difficult to gauge the accuracy of
> figures from rebel territory. For example, Darayya, another besieged rebel-
> held city, was said to have more than 8,000 occupants. But last week, when
> government forces evacuated the entire town, they found fewer than 2,000
> people still residing there.

[http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-syria-
aleppo-m...](http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-syria-aleppo-media-
war-20160830-snap-htmlstory.html)

[1] And she of course knows little

------
meira
It would work so well for them if they give up the western "Assad must go"
motto. But they prefer to pick up some random kids and take photos, because
they are ISIS and Al Nusra after all.

------
jjawssd
How exactly is this hacker news?

~~~
jjawssd
4 downvotes and still zero explanation.

