
A punishing South Korean work culture is gradually being relaxed - nether
http://www.economist.com/news/business/21679214-punishing-work-culture-gradually-being-relaxed-loosening-their-ties?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/looseningtheirties
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sevensor
I worked for a chaebol in the U.S. (not Hyundai). I can attest to the two-week
indoctrination session in the Korean countryside, never leaving before your
boss, never ever contradicting a Korean manager, organizational structure
modeled after the Korean military, the whole nine yards. It's brutal. I'm glad
Hyundai are living up to their name ( _modern_ ) and beginning to shed the old
way of doing business.

~~~
Pyxl101
So how do you handle the situation if a Korean manager is wrong about
something?

That culture sounds like it would be extremely damaging to conductive
effective business.

~~~
MrApathy
Not just business:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Cargo_Flight_8509](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Cargo_Flight_8509)

In most cultures co-pilots are encouraged to speak out when the pilot has or
is about to make a mistake. There were several Korean Air crashes where the
co-pilots knew the pilot was wrong and did nothing, in some cases costing them
their lives. After recognizing this there was a strong push to change the
culture at Korean Air, but I don't know that this was a lesson brought over to
other industries.

~~~
jpatokal
Yes, that's Malcolm Gladwell's theory. The facts are, as ever, more
complicated:

[http://askakorean.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/culturalism-
gladwe...](http://askakorean.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/culturalism-gladwell-and-
airplane.html)

~~~
shard
Here's another layer of complication. Gladwell twists the truth a bit to make
a good story, however AskAKorean also twists the truth a bit to make a good
refutation. Based on the transcript that AskAKorea posted, it's very clear
that the first officer is acting deferentially to the pilot. Specifically, the
first officer uses polite speech with the pilot, and the pilot uses familiar
speech with the first officer. This indicates quite a big social status gap.
As an example, in my company (I am working in Korea), neither my manager nor
my manager's manager uses familiar speech with me, I'd have to go up 3 levels
for that to start happening. What Gladwell mentioned in his book about
hierarchy does not feel exaggerated, and there's likely a large grain of truth
to Gladwell's representation of what happened. Also, if you look through
AskAKorean's previous blogs, you can notice a fairly nationalistic streak in
his posts, which may explain his strong opinions regarding Gladwell's
assertions.

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yongjik
The first paragraph gave me a wry smile:

> MEETINGS to last no more than 30 minutes; junior staff allowed to speak
> freely with superiors; a cut in bonuses for bosses whose teams do not take
> enough holidays. Since 2012 “Pride”, a handbook, has set a new tone for the
> internal culture of Hyundai Capital. Departments whose staff work latest
> into the evening are listed on the firm’s intranet: not to hold them up as
> models of hard work, but to tell them off for not working efficiently
> enough.

Noticed something missing? Like, employees taking initiatives or changing
something. Instead, "cultural change" is mandated from the top. "You have to
be less hierarchical, and here's an employment handbook telling you how to!"

The more things change, the more they stay the same...

~~~
chii
If you took the "initiative" of working less without your boss's consent you'd
be fired. Coming from the top is the only way to legitimize, and thus
bootstrap change.

------
peterburkimsher
I started a Ph.D. in electronic engineering at a prestigious Korean
university.

When the professor refused to pay my scholarship, I took it up with the
international office. The international office had a word with the professor.
The professor's "solution" was to fire me, for "disrespecting his authority".

I lost my professor, so I lost my lab. So I lost my university. So I lost my
student visa. Suddenly, I had to leave the country.

Korea is my ex-country. We had so much in common, but it's over. The whole
culture is judging based on appearance. Cheat in tests, do plastic surgery,
copy shamelessly - just get the results, and nobody cares how you got there.
Students would typically stay in the lab until 3 am and return at 6 am, if
they ever left. Fold-out camping beds were very common. One professor even put
a GPS tracker on an international student in his lab "for research purposes".
Gender equality is abysmal. Forced after-hours drinking was one part where I
actively refused, and I probably only avoided judgment for that because I'm a
foreigner.

Contrast that to Taiwan. Hours here (9 am to 7 pm) are longer than Europe (9
am to 5 pm) and holidays are short (8 days per year), but the culture is
infinitely better. All opinions may be aired. Elders are respected, but are
not considered infallible. Gender equality is excellent in both the corporate
world and the rest of society. Stereotypes do exist, but abusive racism is
rare. Foreigners are welcomed: I will never be a true local, but it's not a
bad thing to be an outsider. The lack of a deep-seated culture makes society
more welcoming, as is common in young countries e.g. Canada, New Zealand,
Australia, even the US. So in short, while Taiwan and Korea seem to get the
same results, in Taiwan, the end does not justify the means, and people here
generally do things the right way.

~~~
jonbarker
Korea is a great place; your complaints are valid. What I learned from living
there is that there can be unexpected benefits to repeated rehearsal (also
sometimes referred to as "rote memorization") which I find to be undervalued
in the US education system. This of course can be taken too far.

------
cballard
Why haven't more liberal/agile (no, not Agile) companies beaten these
companies? That their policies are harmful seems to be considered a fact, so a
company without those policies could be much more productive.

~~~
azernik
Because the society considers such culture good (working at an old-style
company is more approved of); established companies have government, business,
and family ties that give them enough advantage to get away with some
inefficiency; and people who don't believe in these values (i.e. potential
founders of companies that would disrupt these values) are by definition so
far outside of the mainstream that they may have trouble accessing social
resources like capital and advice.

There are endless reasons why societies and economies converge on non-optimal
ways of doing things. The market doesn't fix everything.

~~~
adiabatty
"There is a lot of ruin in a nation." — Adam Smith

This seems to be true of all sorts of large, complicated systems. Smith
naturally focused on countries, but large organizations like companies and
nonprofits can waste resources like this, too. The human body exhibits this
behavior, too — imagine how many things that could go wrong with yours that
would nevertheless still leave you able to go to work.

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cryoshon
Hm, seems quite oppressive. Westernization of the Korean work ethic is
emotionally appealing, but who's to say what works best for them... I imagine
that the mores regarding vacation time and amount of time worked will be very
slow to die, and people who violate these norms (justly) will be punished
socially.

~~~
ddoolin
Anecdotally (~4 years), the vast majority of Koreans I've met detest the work
culture here. Whether it works best or not will not be the deciding factor,
I'd think.

Many of the strict changes will likely be from the start-up world that make
their way up as they are doing now. However, you're probably right
particularly regarding vacation time and time worked. I've worked and have
friends working at start-ups that, while are relaxed about other parts of
company culture, still remain fairly antiquated when it comes to those topics.

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asdfologist
Based on the first paragraph, I'd say most US companies have a lot to learn
from Hyundai.

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OSButler
I really hope this catches on, because there are places with more modern
approaches on paper, but there's no way for the employee to make use of it
without consequences.

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serg_chernata
Are there any stats or numbers on the number of companies converting to these
kinds of policies? It would be interesting to see just how large or small this
trend is.

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johansch
Anyone watch that "Misaeng" kdrama? Is it any good?

~~~
ddoolin
Yep. Pretty good. I keep forgetting to finish it, though...at this point I
need to go and watch most of it over again. :|

