
A myth called the Indian programmer - signa11
http://avinashsingh.wordpress.com/2007/04/05/a-myth-called-the-indian-programmer/
======
prakashk
I might add another "myth" called "Indian blogger" too in this case. The
linked article is a total copy of a news report by Times of India
([http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/sunday-toi/A-myth-
ca...](http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/sunday-toi/A-myth-called-the-
Indian-programmer/articleshow/1633868.cms)). Couldn't the blogger add a measly
line of attribution?

Ok. Back to the topic.

~~~
droithomme
This really is an interesting case of plagiarism since there are multiple
versions of this article by different authors, each who has slightly changed
the other.

February 17, 2007. Author: timesofindia staff?

[http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/sunday-toi/A-myth-
ca...](http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/sunday-toi/A-myth-called-the-
Indian-programmer/articleshow/1633868.cms)

February 18, 2007. Author: Brajeshwar (who does attribute "an article" in
Times of India as "inspired by", but without a specific link)

<http://brajeshwar.com/2007/are-you-a-programmer-or-a-coder/>

April 5, 2007. Author: Avinash Singh

[http://avinashsingh.wordpress.com/2007/04/05/a-myth-
called-t...](http://avinashsingh.wordpress.com/2007/04/05/a-myth-called-the-
indian-programmer/)

2010\. Author: Mohamed Sardhar

[http://www.citehr.com/26128-myth-called-indian-
programmer.ht...](http://www.citehr.com/26128-myth-called-indian-
programmer.html) (exact copy of all 3 pages of the Times of India article,
with no attribution to original, just a new byline added)

~~~
dasil003
Fascinating, this seems to speak directly to DarkShikari's point. It
definitely reads like a mishmash of different people's thoughts.

------
DarkShikari
India's college education system is broken, and the statistics bear it out.
Comparing it to the United States' -- a system that really isn't so good
either -- doesn't even begin to describe how serious the problems are in it.

Industry groups complain that 90% of college graduates (75% of college
engineering graduates) are _completely unemployable_. Not merely untrained,
but _not even worth training_. One of the major industry training companies
has recently increased their training period to a full _7 months_.

Plagiarism is endemic and encouraged on every level, from the Dean down, _even
in graduate schools_. Most students write papers by copying off the internet
and citing "Google". Many "programming" students assemble programs by begging
for "the codez" or otherwise copying "the codez" from existing projects.
Professors rarely bat an eye when the entire class turns in the same work.

By comparison, in America, plagiarism is looked down upon and stigmatized from
as early as the start of elementary school. It's still a major problem, but
it's not _socially expected_ in the same way that it's become in India.

In this kind of environment, it's not surprising that "coders" are being
trained rather than "programmers". Programming is about problem-solving, and
it's hard to teach problem-solving in an educational system that revolves
largely around copying other peoples' work in place of solving problems.

A few of the best students manage to succeed -- after all, even a broken
system can't stop some of the smartest and most motivated from succeeding. But
even for them, the soul-sucking nature of such a system can hardly be
encouraging, and it does no favors for their job prospects -- since being
"Indian" carries the stigma of being a product of that broken system, even if
you managed to become a great programmer regardless.

HN often likes to demonize traditional education, but the most important role
of education is not to teach skills, but to _teach you to think_. That is the
purpose of writing a 10-page critical analysis of a theme in a Shakespeare
play, or building a toy memory allocator: not because knowing Shakespeare or
being able to write malloc is important, but because it teaches students to
_think_ and _analyze_. By plagiarizing papers and programs, students
completely miss the point of the exercise -- to learn to think!

Indian colleges are by and large failing this primary responsibility of
education, and their students suffer as a result. In true cargo cult fashion,
they have adopted the trappings of education without understanding the real
purpose behind it.

~~~
peter_l_downs
I believe you, but these are pretty fantastic claims. Source(s)?

~~~
DarkShikari
Much detail on this is expounded on (with at least some sources) in the
discussions on Wikipedia about the recently terminated India Education
Program.

Postmortem:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/20...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-11-07/Special_report)

Talk page:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:India_Education_...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:India_Education_Program)

The IEP was much like similar programs in other countries -- the idea being to
get writing Wikipedia articles as a class activity for students. In the past,
similar programs have had various successes and failures, but the IEP is
notorious for its sheer size and consequences. It was a total and utter
failure in which around a thousand students ended up flooding Wikipedia with
plagiarized content, forcing mass-reversions and auditing of the entire
program, and eventually shutting it down.

Much of the problem was bad management and insufficient planning/mentoring,
but there's lots of useful detail in the discussions about issues in the
Indian education system, _why_ so many students assume it's okay to copy-and-
paste, and so forth. There's some good perspectives from Indian editors,
particularly the "ambassadors" who were serving as liaisons for the program.

------
ramanujan
India is just an extremely high-variance country. It has produced people like
Google's Amit Singhal (Search Quality), Sanjay Ghemawat (MapReduce), Vic
Gundotra (Google+), Sundar Pichai (Chrome), and Krishna Bharat (Google News).
And it has also produced many people who aren't worthy of the title coder, let
alone engineer.

Rather than wringing one's hands, just ask programming questions in interviews
and let the code do the talking rather than the nationality.

~~~
nbakshi
4 out of the 5 you mentioned are from IITs. The education quality of IITs vs
other institutions matters a lot in India.

~~~
ruchi
You are getting it in the reverse order. People who make it to IITs are
driven; they do well in every field not just IT. Most Indian coders are in it
just for the money, they hardly have concept of basic business or functional
concept to do better and the sad part is they don't want to learn. You need to
love what you do excel.

------
j45
First: The thinking and problem solving required in programming is not taught
enough at universities in North America, nor overseas.

Second: Being groomed to do specwork is the big problem of most institutions.

Third: Many developers thinking they don't need to learn anymore. Or, that
they are done learning and ready to pursue a job/career. This is as evident in
NA as it is overseas. Constant self-learning and self-development as a
programmer is something that simply doesn't happen enough. Overseas, and in
North America.

Fourth: The cultural differences. Done doesn't always mean done and it's
entirely a societal/cultural thing. It's helpful have to define done as
'tested and ready to launch', etc.

Fifth: Outsourcers: Paying weekly helps a lot in a land where people get paid
monthly, if on time at all..

Sixth: No sense on hating on overseas developers taking jobs. IT's the people
paying the bills in NA that decided to take away all those jobs. And I guess
they pay the price in the long run for better, or worse.

Seventh: Job, let alone career opportunities in India seem to suck. Every job
posting gets hundreds, if not thousands of applications. Imagine trying to
pick out the quality, let alone trying to stand out.

Disclaimer: I've outsourced to India. I've hired developers newly moved to
North America from the Indian Subcontinent and had good luck and bad luck,
like any employee.

I have been told I share some heritage in with the Indian subcontinent a in
the past few generations. I'm not an apologist or out to offend. We all can do
better and we should all be supporting each other to become the best we can
be.

~~~
marshallp
edit: I was replying to DarkShikari, so adjust accordingly

I'd argue whether copying is a bad thing. Copying or getting others to do your
work is what great businesspeople and managers do. The system of cheating you
describe above might be actually creating a great stream of
entrepreneurs/networkers. If they could channel that talent to pfoductive use,
like getting 3d printers or robots in their hands, or selling through
telephones, it could be a huge resource for everyone.

On a related note, everyone disparages Nigerian scammers. Yet these are highly
entrepreneurial individuals that western companies should be hiring as
salespeople.

~~~
talmand
Just wow.

A great manager does not get others to do their work. They lead or, let's see
what's another word I know, "manage" other people doing their own work
assigned to them. The system of cheating described can only create a stream of
entrepreneurs/networkers who will ultimately have to cheat to attempt to
succeed but the real world doesn't support that in the long run. They cannot
be a good resource if they don't know how to actually work.

I agree, Nigerian scammers would make great salespeople for industries that
specialize in stealing from people.

~~~
marshallp
I think part of the problem is we in the programming/engineering communities
have a high notion of doing things right/ethics etc. However, in the real
world, where money changes hands and fortunes are made it's the cheaters who
get ahead/make things happen. Do you think most successful politicians, used
car dealers, industry titans are not cheaters. Did Bill Gates or Steve Jobs
ever cheat? (yes, all the time).

The question is, who do you want to hire as your salesperson when you're
struggling and have to pay rent. Mr. Ethical (cs nerd) or Mr. Cutthroat
(nigerian scammer/used car salesman)?

~~~
buu700
To be clear, it is indeed your stance that both Bill Gates and Steve Jobs
lacked any sort of legitimate skills, talent, or work ethic?

~~~
unimpressive
While I can't speak for the author of that comment (And for what it's
worth...) it's a well known fact that Steve Jobs had Wozniak do his job at
Atari for him on multiple occasions. (Including the famous _breakout_
incident. LINK: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_jobs#Early_career>)

I've read multiple times from material written about both of them that their
skills were in management and vision, not necessarily code and electronics.
Honestly though, to extrapolate no legitimate skills (Let alone talent or work
ethic.) from that is a stretch at best.

------
jgmmo
Funny that this article makes it onto the front page this week , because I
just so happen to be in Bangalore India right at this moment on a business
trip training malware researchers we have here.

I can't speak to India's education system, but what I can say is the team I'm
working with here - even though while earning a fraction of what their US
companions earn - are doing a great job and have a lot of excitement and
enthusiasm for their work.

Bangalore India really isn't that bad. I have had a great trip here, and I've
been very impressed with the professionalism and level of intelligence of
everyone I've met. If anyone else gets a chance to visit - I highly recommend
you do so! You will not regret! Just get your shots before coming over, and
make sure to bring Cipro/Azithromyacin just in case!

~~~
keypusher
In my experience working with contractors from India, it was not excitement
and enthusiasm which was lacking. It was the quality of the end product.

------
bdhe
Just a nitpick on an otherwise largely accurate article. IIT Mumbai and IIT
Powai (though commonly used in media) are erroneous ways of referring to IIT
Bombay which still retains the old name of the city Mumbai in which it is
located. Powai is a suburb of Mumbai around the Powai lake where the IIT
Bombay campus is located.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Institute_of_Technology_...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Institute_of_Technology_Bombay)

~~~
bjornsing
On that same subject, I'd say there are rather few "large programs" that "run
into billions of lines" (of code, I presume). By comparison the Linux kernel,
one of the largest monolithic "programs" I know of, would have to expand by
almost two orders of magnitude to fit into that category. :)

------
laconian
Meh. I think India makes a lot of great programmers. I've worked with too many
good guys (and gals) to know that the country is capable of making talent.

But, I think that it also produces a lot of mediocre ones, too, but that might
be because programming is perceived as a respectable "default" profession for
smart but rudderless people. In the US, those people go into law, or try out
medicine, but coding is seen as deeply unsexy. This stigma is unfortunate but
I believe it also acts as a filter as well. Of the people that exit CS
programs with a degree in hand, perhaps a higher percentage might be of the
caliber that goes on to do great impactful things.

~~~
shantanubala
There's also a fundamental difference in the way we (at least try) to teach
our kids. We "strive" to have kids who are creative, energetic, and capable of
critical thinking. We may not succeed, but that's our goal.

In India, successfully raising kids is almost always a matter of income.
There's just a much greater gap in socio-economic status for most Indian
families that "creativity" and "critical thinking" aren't really as useful as
a salary.

In the US, nobody _strives_ for a job that _doesn't_ require some level of
creativity or critical thinking. In India, it doesn't matter to many people,
because food on the table is more important.

~~~
jiggy2011
So basically they are lower in Maslow's Hierarchy of needs.

This leads me to think that the 2nd generation of Indian programmers will be
better since they will grow up with a middle class lifestyle.

~~~
geekzgalore
It may not be really true. Indians are a "greedy" lot, always looking for ways
to improve their lifestyle. So, the 2nd generation Indian programmer will be
looking to work lesser than his (or her) parents and make more money.. and the
software industry will always have slots for people who just understand
instructions and not think.

------
nailer
Personally I think 'coder' conveys better engineering skill than 'programmer'
(though I prefer 'guy who makes web apps' to either).

Programmers are often enterprise types, who don't code in their spare time,
have a degree but don't learn anymore, and love the hours XML generates.

Many Indians-in-India code because their parents want them to be engineers,
not because they love coding.

~~~
eropple
I look at those definitions pretty much exactly in reverse. I cringe when
somebody calls themselves a "coder" because my mental image is somebody who
just throws it at the wall and stops as soon as it's good enough. (Many
"enterprise types" certainly qualify.) "Programmer", to me at least, implies a
greater level of methodology--not something that guarantees better code, but
probably doesn't hurt.

I call myself a software developer, because I don't just write code. I build
(develop) software. I hate the term "software engineer", because we're not
engineers.

~~~
bonzoesc
> I hate the term "software engineer", because we're not engineers.

I don't buy that. We're building software in a time before we have a
universally accepted engineering doctrine for software, but you can hope that
somebody calling themselves a "software engineer" is going to be using some
kind of engineering-like doctrine.

A good presentation about the future of software engineering:
[http://confreaks.com/videos/550-scotlandruby2011-real-
softwa...](http://confreaks.com/videos/550-scotlandruby2011-real-software-
engineering)

~~~
eropple
Very, very few of us follow any sort of engineering-like practices. "Engineer"
has real and meaningful connotations that almost no software developers follow
or _can_ follow.

Engineers have certifications and legal consequences to turning out a complete
turd. If a PE signs off on something that catastrophically breaks, they can be
legally culpable. With very rare exceptions, "software engineers" just file
something in Bugzilla.

------
sho_hn
I'm somewhat nervous about posting this due to its somewhat sensitive nature,
but I'd like to share my own experiences with Indian programming students, and
perhaps some of you who are more familiar with the education system in the
country could provide some background info for me. As in, the following is
definitely not meant to be any sort of judgement, because I'm relatively
clueless and there is significant selection bias to the data my perspective
affords.

I'm involved with programming mentoring program in a large open source
community, KDE. A significant percentage of the mentoring requests I receive,
I'd say about half of them, are by Indian CS students, often in their second
or third year of college education. On average, they share the following
attributes:

* They're nice and polite people, and, a sometimes significant language barrier aside, nice to work with.

* Unfortunately, their education level as pertaining to the programming practice tends to be far below that of Western students who have spent a similar amount of time in CS college education. They've had, say, C++ classes, but their understanding even of OOP basics tends to be lacking, not to mention groking something like an event loop. This is not necessarily a fatal problem considering that receiving programming mentoring is the point of the mentoring program, but we don't quite have the resources to make up for it all -- the idea is more to focus on helping with KDE specifics than general programming.

* Many of them seem to have been explicitly encouraged to participate in international open source projects by their institution. _Some_ appear to do it in order to receive credit from the institution.

* Most of them expect to be told what to work on, and there is a distinct edge of subservience to their communication style with us that you don't see from non-Indian mentees. Often, the first step is to explain how the nature of our community really allows them to choose to work on what they find interesting, or where they perceive a project could need their help the most after making social contact with the developer and user communities and observing the existing pain points. Unfortunately, no matter how gently this is laid out, this is also the step after which we never hear back from many of them: The agency to self-select and self-motivate seems to be lacking.

Of course, for completeness' sake I should also mention that there definitely
are exceptions. I've also mentored Indian CS students who are exceedingly
bright and who have later become valuable contributors in the community. Our
first conference in India was also a great success:
<http://dot.kde.org/2011/03/10/confkdein-opens-bengaluru> and
[http://dot.kde.org/2011/03/12/confkdein-talks-close-kde-
lege...](http://dot.kde.org/2011/03/12/confkdein-talks-close-kde-legend-
sirtaj)

~~~
cmadan
> Many of them seem to have been explicitly encouraged to participate in
> international open source projects by their institution. Some appear to do
> it in order to receive credit from the institution.

Working on an open source project is sufficient to receive credits for an
internship or a co-op in most Indian educational institutions. So,
unfortunately most of them are not there for the love of open source but
because they need the credits and something to put on their CV.

> Most of them expect to be told what to work on, and there is a distinct edge
> of subservience to their communication style with us that you don't see from
> non-Indian mentees.

This is a cultural thing. Even though you are their mentor, they expect you to
play the role of a boss.

~~~
xyzzyz
> So, unfortunately most of them are not there for the love of open source but
> because they need the credits and something to put on their CV.

Why "unfortunately"? Many people (me included) working on Linux, MySQL,
Android, or any other corporation backed open source project do not contribute
because they want to, it's just what they're paid for. Nevertheless, their
contribution is real and useful.

------
MrKurtHaeusler
None of this is really specific to India. The same observations can be made
anywhere.

The fact is, most enterprise software development doesn't require much in the
way of thinking, the challenges are cultural or organisational rather than
technical. But that is fine. The majority of programmers (I will avoid my
thoughts on coders vs programmers vs software developers here) are quite happy
to convert a spec doc into code and throw it over to QA day after day.

Those that want to get more out of their work life, and enjoy some more
freedom to decide not just how to do things but take part in deciding what
should be done, or perhaps want to involve themselves across the wider
business of delivering software solutions have a lot of options open to them.
They can be leaders, or start startups, or become ScrumMasters or coaches.
They can move into customer facing roles if they so desire, or take part in
developing tools that other developers use. They can involve themselves in
academia or open source. They can become architects or help design the
frameworks that encapsulate a lot of the technical complexity so that less
engaged developers can get going quickly.

I think it is all good. There is enough work of the right kind for everyone.
We will always need lots of people happy to just do what they are told for 8
hours per day, and we will likewise need a fewer number of people to step up
and take on more advanced tasks.

This is not specific to India, it is fairly universal in our profession.

------
yzhengyu
Actually, outside of software startups, several software houses I can think of
and the established tech giants, what has been described here is pretty much
the rest of the world.

I guess to use something that I saw on HN the other day, it's the dichotomy of
the creative film crew versus the sterile manufacturing line.

Note that business people can't help themselves. After all, this is what
business school has taught them in how to become managers.

The keyword is "manager". Note that it does not mean leadership. We are sorely
lacking in leaders. At every level.

------
dasil003
This article feels dated for sure. The body shop mentality was just a result
of market forces, and yeah culture probably played a role, but this situation
is not providing great ROI for international clients. The nature of
programming is to automate drudgery, and Indian living standards are going up
all the time, so the economics of this just weren't sustainable. What is
happening and will continue to happen is that Indian firms will grow into
higher and higher market segments while this body shop stuff plateaus and then
starts to decrease. Increasingly Indian firms will find that the real money is
serving their local markets which are HUGE, and which they have cultural
knowledge to produce a superior product. Initially this is done by copying
successful products from innovation leaders worldwide, but eventually the
competitive advantage will come from targeting the differences of the local
population. I believe this will happen regardless of culture, but I do feel
bad for people who were sold on the idea that being an unthinking code monkey
would provide a secure and lucrative long-term career.

------
abc_lisper
May be it's got something to do with this?
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlrzzeFsMXo&feature=relat...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlrzzeFsMXo&feature=related)

------
rehack
First, this article is 4/5 years old. Second, this highlights another
unfortunate Indian tendency to revel in cynicism.

Well, I am a _programmer_ based in India, and know many others who also are.
And although I also prefer to use the 'programmer' word, but believe you can
substitute it withe 'coder' without taking away any respect (remember there is
the elite topcoder.com site )

India is a land of billion people. So you can find all various kinds of people
here. So certainly, you will find a lot of people who may be close to the
stereotype described in the essay.

But if you actually _see_ there are lots of guys, who are doing their best to
try and be world class _programmers_.

And not just programming. They are taking full advantage of the Internet to
learn the silicon valley best practices to create a similar environment within
their own Startups. I know quite a few of such people, actually.

------
sundar22in
This blog post is a result of "Blame culture". The intention here is just to
find faults and exaggerate, but not to do anything constructive. In the end
the blog post does not state anything constructive.

The post is too narrow minded and focuses only on negative aspects. Poor
quality is ubiquitous, its every were. Can you name one country which has only
highquality programmers? Author just assumes people are bad and things are
exaggerated. Blog post creates "panic" which is unwarrented.

Its true that education system needs improvement, but it does not mean that
most people are useless. Also this blog post assumes that everyone must be a
programmer and not coder. Its like expecting everyone to become a CEO of a
company. Expecting everyone to beome CEO and bashing that most are useless is
stupid. There are many great programmers and innovators from india.

~~~
jiggy2011
I would imagine that the best Indian programmers are every bit as good as the
best American or European programmers. It's just that at the low end, people
who are not good programmers in first world countries will gravitate towards
something else as there are plenty of other ways of a making a similar level
of income whereas in India options are more limited so people will stick with
a career to which they may be ill suited.

From what I've seen Scandinavian countries seems to have a very good track
record for creating innovative programmers. A disproportionate number of
highly original languages , frameworks , software and games seem to come from
there.

------
sidcool
This is a painfully accurate article. I can say this as an Indian Coder.

~~~
harichinnan
Most of the Indian Software Engineers work in Software Maintenance business,
production support, database administration, network maintenance etc. They are
all challenging jobs. Some companies perform custom software development for
large clients, and they perform on par with "in-house" software engineers in
US and Europe. Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Zynga and other coll companies
also have offices and they hire the best and brightest programmers in India.
India does not have a startup culture like US.

------
jgw
I think this is the natural result of "programming" or "IT" being perceived as
a comparatively lucrative career.

I believe it happened in North America, too, just not quite to the same
degree.

I first had access to a computer (an Osborne 1) in 1983, at the age of 8. I
think it was inevitable from that point that I'd become an electrical engineer
or computer scientist. As luck would have it, it turned out to be a reasonably
lucrative career choice, but monetary considerations literally never figured
into my choice of university program. I had no idea how much an engineer made.
I think that most of my contemporaries were similarly-minded. Entering
University in 1993, I had never had an email address, and it wasn't until
second year that I first saw NCSA Mosaic and this thing walled the World Wide
Web.

While I was in university, a revolution quietly, but incredibly rapidly, took
place. By the time I graduated in 1998, I was using the web to book travel,
buy stuff in online auctions, and my mum was handy at email and finding things
on the web.

In my department, a huge shift took place in the incoming demographics - the
new frosh were there because Computer Engineering was the hot program to be
in. The Faculty halved the Electrical class and doubled the Comp class, and it
was noticeable, even years later, when this younger blood graduated and was
now in the industry, that many were of a very different mindset to my peers.
Far fewer had followed a genuine passion and fascination with computers, and
had pursued it for what seemed to be far more pragmatic and material reasons.
As one acolyte put it, to my barely-contained amusement, "I'm in software
engineering! Bling Bling!"

I mean no disrespect to younger generations. I recognize that there are many
fine folks here much younger than those I describe who are as passionate about
computer science and engineering as I am, if not more. And there are some gray
beards laughing at this young fool who thinks he was the last of a pure breed.
But to me that brief period represented a very sudden and very sharp switch in
the mentality of those entering the field.

Now take that sudden demographic change, time-shift it a few years to where
the global network infrastructure is in place to enable this work to be
outsourced just about anywhere, and scale it appropriately considering that
this lucrative new field could mean the difference between fabulous
(comparative) wealth and a life of poverty. Add an economic crunch that pushed
companies to reduce costs, and government initiatives to promote that
industry.

That's what India's IT industry has developed - a massive work force that has
been suddenly conjured into being and drawing an even lower common denominator
than I ever saw at school.

[EDIT: disclaimer- I also mean no disrespect to many very fine Indian
engineers and computer scientists; I mean only that the low-end of the
spectrum has lowered dramatically]

~~~
gaius
_a huge shift took place in the incoming demographics_

Hence, "brogrammers".

------
goatcurious
This is a post from 2007?

Its all about the relative scale of numbers. India has a ton of programmers
and a trillion ton coders. There is a place for both.

------
gokulj
“In the last 20 years, 13 students from China have won the International
Mathematical Olympiad,”..."and India hasn't won the prize even once.”
<http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article2889936.ece> There have been
occasions of scientific and intellectual glory, an Amartya Sen here or a
Venkataraman there, but almost all are, as Indian media fondly tags them -
'India born'. Unless we realize and accept that we have a serious problem, of
which the lack of truly great Indian programmers and product companies is just
a manifestation, we are not even going to attempt a solution.

------
digamber_kamat
I got my bachelor's degree from a college where in one course we were supposed
to learn Java. The teacher use to write the example code from the textbook
onto the board and then dictate short notes on concepts like "Inheritance" ,
"Encapsulation" etc. According to her Interfaces in Java existed because they
enabled programmers to overcome the lack of multiple inheritance. You can
implement as many interfaces as you want but you can inherit only one class.
That was her argument. My college was ranked 60th best college in the country
that year.

------
mouly
The projects that are offshored don't require programmer. They require people
who can understand and follow instructions.

------
Varun06
Honestly there is some truth, but if you want to be a programmer(not a coder)
no company, no person can stop you. I agree that companies like TCS etc. get
mainly maintenance work but nobody is forcing you to stay there only, if you
don't love a job, don't do that job..

------
njloof
Is this still true? This article is five years old.

~~~
giis
Yes,Its still relevant.This article will be relevant for next 20 years ,unless
some thing dramatically changes(like creating world class products) the Indian
Software industry.

------
sidcool
That's it, I am going to break this myth.

------
srini1234
a new disturbing trend [http://us.classifieds.sulekha.com/business-analyst-
proxy-int...](http://us.classifieds.sulekha.com/business-analyst-proxy-
interview-female_services_233995)

~~~
scatter
I agree ! There are people exploiting lack of face to face interviews and back
ground checks (particularly for contractors) to end up at jobs they aren't
qualified for. I don't if this is a recent trend, or if it is already known in
the software industry, though.

------
hetaoblog
one question to hackers here, how do you think of the Chinese guys in IT?
coder?programmer?good engineers?

------
luckydev
LAME article

------
prtamil
Would someone Please kill Indian MBA degree(IIM (These clowns take freshers
for Managing Company wtf)). These guys still live in industrial Age. And being
an Indian i can tell most of them are still in colonial age (Indian
Administrative Service Wannabe which is created to create clerks (now a days
nobody knows what clerk is) for East India Trading Company)thinking industrial
age is new century thought or something.

After 40 years of software Evolution such as Internet, Social Network is
creating Revolutions (Arab Spring) and OpenSource Software is running in Mars
etc.. these guys still haven't got clue about what is Software and How to
Create it.

And M.B.A degree is killing common sense in these people and they are
effectively making dinosaurs such as media company executives who's riding
Titanic and thinking themselves as Titans.

As per Calling Programmers Coders please don't listen to these clowns. They
live in way past and accessing future with knowledge created by East India
Trading company(before 1857).

As per my knowledge and my experience The Best way to predict future is by
creating it.

So Please Get yourself openSource Unix Box. Learn
PHP,JavaScript,C++,CommonLisp,Python, Bash etc.. Create Something futuristic
such as TheMatrix etc... That way we can control future.

Please please don't listen to These TCS/Wipro/Infosys Solution Architect's
limited knowledge. And Fellow Indian Engineers please don't ask any advice
from these clowns. If anybody is offering advice ask github Link before
listening to them.

Man is Tool Making Animal. Make Innovative Tools and make a better future.
Evolution will take care Rest.. Sorry for the ranting I can't stand some MBA
wannabe calling me Coder. I really want to be called as a Programmer.

FYI (<http://programming-motherfucker.com/>)

