
Ask YC: How can I guide my brother towards success in school/life? - dmnd
For certain reasons of family dysfunction I have a greater than usual parental role with my youngest brother. I want to ask YC for advice to help my brother become successful in school and life in general.<p>Some background information is necessary. I am the eldest sibling and was the typical high achiever in school and university. He was also successful in school at an early age, and used to joke about beating my own achievements. I encouraged this friendly rivalry, but over the last few years he seems to have withdrawn. I think he is somewhat ashamed of this which makes him afraid to be honest with me. This makes it difficult for me to know if I am helping him or if he even wants my help.<p>He was one of the top students at the local public school and just managed to get in the best public school in the state. Entrance to this school is based only upon academic merit, not money. He's been there two years and since has seemed to become disillusioned with academic achievement. This might be for a number of reasons.<p>Unfortunately he lives with our mother who is a terrible example to him. She injured her back 25 years ago and has not worked since. She blames anyone but herself for her problems which include alcoholism, general poverty, and no real serious will to improve herself. This is a very complicated situation that must be having a negative effect on my brother, although he recognises our mother is an example of what not to be like in life.<p>His school has a very academic reputation, but it also heavily encourages extra-curricular activities. My brother enthusiastically participates in a number of sports and also Army Cadets. I know he enjoys these activities so I try not to be critical, but I don't like how he seems to be able to trade hard academic subjects for things like sport which in the long run provide minimal benefit.<p>He has developed a level of racism. At his school there is a large population of Asian students who excel academically. Amongst his group of Caucasian peers the Asians that excel at maths or science are described as people with 'no lives but study'. They seem to think that as only Asians do well at those subjects, it is not worth trying as hard as they perhaps could.<p>He also says his friends do not study much which in turn leads him to believe he shouldn't need to either. Given the school he is at I don't know how true this is of the other students, but in any case it makes his own lack of motivation obvious. Next year he starts the local high school certificate upon which entrance to university courses is based. He tells me he wants to go to university, but he does not know what he wants to study there.<p>I always recommend that he try hard at maths, science and english so that he can get into a good course. I don't want to force him to do something he will not enjoy or be passionate about, but I also do not want him to make the mistake of falling behind academically when the next two years have a disproportionate effect on his later life.<p>How can I motivate him to try to do well at school and life in general? He is very apathetic regarding academic subjects at the moment. I have tried to communicate to him the importance of the next few years, and although he agrees I don't think he really believes it - it feels like I am not getting through to him. Does anyone have suggestions that may help me make him understand the opportunities he could be wasting?
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qhoxie
Finding a way to rekindle the friendly competition you once had is key. Openly
discuss your successes and aspirations in a means that is not overwhelming,
but rather though-provoking for him. Challenge him in this way to focus on his
goals and then develop a path to get there. This doesn't have to be explicit,
but highlighting what has helped you and what has hindered you will most
likely assist him.

Help him to learn from the mistakes you have made and those of the people
around you. Some things take learning from one's own follies, but others can
be taught in this way, especially if he looks up to you.

~~~
dmnd
I agree about the competition. A problem is he seems to be afraid to ask for
help now that he is struggling, but when I offer help he declines.

I often try to let him know which things lead to my own success and which were
distractions, but it's hard to know whether he internalises this advice or
just agrees to quickly end the conversation.

~~~
qhoxie
If he won't be open with you about it, you might try being less direct. Try to
bring it up only in context and make it as implicit as possible. It could just
take exposure to positive thoughts on the topic for it to have an effect.

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iamdave
Don't just motivate him to do something, show him how to do something. Be an
example. It starts with you. Sure it sounds lame, and I don't care if it
sounds lame, take him out and show him the things you're doing.

~~~
dmnd
I do talk with him about things I am building and even hint that he could be
involved if he wanted to be.

He doesn't enjoy coding though. I bought a beginner's guide to Python a while
ago and gave it to him being careful not to pressure him into it. It didn't
interest him. Since then he's also tried a programming subject at school, but
he obviously didn't enjoy it as he doesn't wish to continue with it.

I think he could have the skills for engineering if he tried, but once again
it's hard to interest him in it now that he has apathy for maths.

I can't really serve as an example in other fields but perhaps I could try to
spend more time with him that isn't leisure.

~~~
qhoxie
If he hasn't yet, convince him to take survey courses and courses in arbitrary
topics. One of two things generally happens there: He either finds a new or
suppressed passion, or he is pushed back toward a previous interest. Each
provides a path.

~~~
dmnd
He has tried a couple of electives in school, and seems to be somewhat
interested psychology, which is good because it's enthusiasm for _something_.

There are only limited opportunities to try new things at school, though. What
would be good is finding a useful interest or hobby outside of school that is
not sport. For most of us here this is coding, but what do people in other
fields do?

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nostrademons
Oh man, if ever there was a topic where "advice = overgeneralization + limited
life experience", this is it. I can share bits and pieces of my own life
story, but take any advice I give with a grain of salt. People are different;
what worked for me may not work for your brother.

Like your brother, I did well in the early grades. But when I reached age 11,
I completely rebelled, went on "strike", and refused to do any work. I didn't
_want_ to be successful, because I realized how empty conventional definitions
of success are. By 13, I refused to go to school at all. I just walked out of
the building when they made me - had the cops called on me several times.

The best decision I ever made in my lifetime was to go to a brand-new charter
school for high school. I didn't want to at first - I was incredibly cynical
at that point, and believed that every place would be the same and the world
just sucked. (My dad is like your mom in some respects, though he has
redeeming qualities as well.)

But when I got there, I found that was I was surrounded by people who, when
faced with a problem, said "Let's fix it" instead of "The system sucks, so why
should I bother doing anything?" Over time, that rubbed off. It didn't happen
immediately - it was about 3-4 years before I said to myself "I want to be
like _them_ ", and about 10 years before I actually started acting like them.
I'm still working on it.

I guess one piece of "advice" I'd give you is to do your best to surround your
brother with people who are actively choosing to make the world a better
place. This is hard - most of us forget how small our worlds were when we were
in school. It's hard to choose the sort of life you want to live when you're
not given a lot of choice in anything.

Something else to think about:

By the time I was 16, my parents and nearly all the adults in my life had
given up on me, and gave me a free pass to not do any work. Remember how the
Randy Pausch lecture said "When you screw up, and people close to you don't
tell you you've screwed up, that's a _very bad sign_ , because that means
they've given up on you"? Well, for me, it was actually the most liberating
thing in my life. Because it meant that whatever I did, I was doing _for me_ ,
and not to please somebody else's expectations of me. (Okay, I did go to
college to please my parents, and that was nearly a disaster...) Once I'd
thoroughly demolished everyone's dreams of me becoming a famous mathematician
or physicist, I could do what _I wanted_ to do, and do it with far more
passion than if I was just fulfilling my parent's broken dreams.

As much as you want your brother to succeed, it has to come from him. It's his
life to lead, and his life to screw up if he chooses. You can point the way,
but you can't drag him there.

So - I dunno what advice to give you. I don't think I'm even qualified to give
advice on this. I guess if it were my kid, I'd try to show him just how big
the world is outside the gates of the schoolyard. There're so many niches,
professions, and hobbies that you don't even know about when you're in high
school, and many of them can be quite exciting. Get him into an internship or
two, or a non-McDonalds job. Introduce him to folks in different fields. Let
him surf the web and explore what's out there.

~~~
dmnd
Thanks for your input. I might try to remove the implicit expectations that
are placed on him. Even though since he withdrew I am careful not to pressure
him, I'm sure he still feels there are expectations upon him.

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noodle
coming from someone who was in a similar position, i feel that this is key --
you _need_ to get your mother involved. have a talk with your mother and try
and convince her to and help her change.

that was the downfall with my cousin. no matter what awesome influences i or
my immediate family could provide for him, he went back, spending most of the
day, with bad friends and a bad family situation, so he's turned out bad.

good luck, sir.

~~~
dmnd
Part of the reason for getting into his school was so that he could be exposed
to better influences.

As I said, the problem with our mother is complicated, but I have tried to
talk to her about this. Her problem is that she never sticks at anything, and
that her lack of perseverance is always someone else's fault. I guess I could
try harder to get her to improve or at least to get out of the way.

~~~
xenoterracide
getting the mother more uninvolved could be better (it's all highly
circumstantial) I'm in a similar place with my sister. I have no advice, as I
haven't found a good solution.

~~~
noodle
this is also a decent potential solution that we considered but couldn't
follow through with

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rantfoil
The racism is pretty disconcerting, and it sounds like the friends are the
problem. We absorb the attitudes of the people we spend time with, and our
peer group is who we respect. If our peer group is great, we rise to meet
them, but if they are trash, we ourselves become that trash.

~~~
dmnd
Yes, it is. I'm going to talk to the school about that since it must be a
pretty widespread problem. Maybe next year he can be placed with other
students in his core classes.

