
Stack Overflow Salary Calculator - lainon
https://stackoverflow.blog/2017/09/19/much-developers-earn-find-stack-overflow-salary-calculator/
======
wainstead
Beware: the Stack Overflow Developer Survey is not a scientific survey.
Participants are self-selected, not randomly sampled.

For true random sampling of the software developers in the United States, use
the Bureau of Labor Statistics, who employ real statisticians:

[https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#15-0000](https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#15-0000)

You can also break them down by U.S. state:

[https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oessrcst.htm](https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oessrcst.htm)

And by MSA (Metropolitan Statistical Area):

[https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oessrcma.htm](https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oessrcma.htm)

~~~
jonshariat
As an interaction/ux/product designer, I always find it odd that government
forms never have a relevant job role in any of its data. They lump us in with
graphic design. :/

~~~
toephu2
Why do you find it odd? A "a interaction/ux/product designer" did not really
exist 10 years ago or wasn't very popular. Do you think the government moves
at the pace of a Silicon Valley startup updating job titles every year?

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sharpercoder
That was terrible UX. After searching for the link (why not place it at the
top?) which can be done easier and clearer. I filled everything in, then it
turned out the location was not supported. So I took the bigger city in the
area. Then I got the message

> We don't support this location. Select a location from the dropdown menu.

There is no dropdown menu. I then hovered over the I icon, to only _then_
learn my country is not supported.

~~~
russelh15
Same thing happened with me, then I saw the error:

"You have exceeded your daily request quota for this API. For more information
on usage limits and the Google Maps Javascript API services please see:
[https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/javascript/...](https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/javascript/usage")

~~~
reificator
Ah, they're still using the dev key for Google Maps eh?

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EpicEng
Apparently the only types of developers are front end, back end, 'full stack',
mobile, desktop, and game. I don't fit any of those.

And only _three_ locations available in the US? How is this useful? I suppose
this tool is awesome if you're a web or mobile dev in Seattle, SF, or NY.

~~~
catacombs
>Apparently the only types of developers are front end, back end, 'full
stack', mobile, desktop, and game. I don't fit any of those.

Do you build houses then? ;)

~~~
personjerry
Production, Site Reliability, Machine Learning and AI, Security, Network, as
some other examples of software developers.

~~~
MikeTheGreat
Genuine question: what does a Production Software Developer do?

~~~
celim307
In my last teams it was a lot of infrastructure. Deployment, disaster
recovery, failover, provisioning, build processes, maybe even building the
testing pipeline, etc.

Can't speak for other companies

------
freeplatform
But where in the form do I put in the fact that I use spaces instead of tabs,
to let them know that I should be making more?

~~~
majewsky
Location: "San\tFrancisco" ;)

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otakucode
Biggest factor is where you live... because we all know that people are paid
according to the value they create, and bits forged in places with high rent
are inherently more valuable.

~~~
pascalxus
Apparently, it's more profitable to pay developers nearly twice as much, than
it is for a VC or CEO to take a airplane flight a few times a year.

~~~
olympus
Or it's theoretically worth twice as much to locate your company near the big
tech companies. Can you really not entice people to move out to another city?
Say Kansas City, which is quite pleasant. If they moved to K.C., a company
could afford to pay devs the same salary as in San Fran, pay for devs to fly
to a couple conferences each year, and give a bigger holiday bonus-- and
they'd still come out ahead with the tax burden, office rent, support staff,
etc. So is a hotshot dev from San Fran really refusing to move to K.C. for the
same salary? They must know that their disposable income would double if they
moved. I've been to both cities, and San Fran isn't that much better.

~~~
gleenn
I think the problem is that most people don't get offered the same in cheaper
areas, that money gets absorbed by the company. Even if you argue that the
actual take-home is cheaper, people aren't as good at evaluating those things,
and SF etc sound like more fun. I say this as a dev in SF. I frequently skim
different locations in the US and abroad and SF usually is highest paying.

------
bradlys
Seems inaccurate for SF.

It was saying that half of devs were making less than $90k for 3 years of
experience. I find that hard to believe. Yes, maybe that's the listings but I
think it's insane to think you get paid that when almost every company here
past seed stage will pay $100k+ for any new dev.

~~~
Bahamut
Maybe inaccurate for the Bay Area in general.

It said $146k or so was 75th percentile in the South Bay for 5 years of
experience, but I am at the second to lowest level of software engineer at my
company (which is one of the biggest tech employers in the area) and my base
is $160k.

~~~
bradlys
You're at a big tech company. The salaries at FB, Google, LinkedIn, Apple,
etc. all tend to be much bigger than at non-big-tech.

~~~
Bahamut
That was the same base salary I had at a startup just prior too.

~~~
toephu2
You are one datapoint. Again, take that survey with a grain of salt. Like
someone mentioned above, if you want real data just go look at bls.gov or get
a rough idea at h1bdata.info and search by city

~~~
acchow
h1b doesn't include equity which is almost half of most people's compensation
in the big companies.

~~~
toephu2
hence why I said rough idea.

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ineptech
I thought of myself as somewhat overpaid, but the 50th percentile for my
job/location/experience was $5k off from my actual salary. Now I want to check
out the listings. Part of the point, perhaps?

~~~
floatrock
> Part of the point, perhaps?

Of course it is.

Glassdoor, Indeed, Angelist... all those have these salary calculators to
attract inventory (your eyeballs, my eyeballs) that they then turn around and
sell as product on their job listing boards.

~~~
seattle_spring
Except these estimates seem laughably low.

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rb808
The Salary chart is interesting, both because of how US developers earn more
than other Western countries, but mainly how a median developer with 20 years
experience earns 60% more than a first job developer. I wonder how many other
professions have that low a rate of pay increase - or maybe its just grads are
overpaid, not sure.

~~~
afpx
Yeah, the numbers are weird. I'm in SF, full-stack, with 20+ years of
experience (and leading several successful exits), but I can't seem to get a
job making as much as a mid-career developer (according to that calculator).

To be fair though, I don't have time or patience for long interview processes.
But, on the other hand, a lot of times I get rejected just after the phone
screen (with no feedback, of course).

~~~
mahyarm
I could coach you if you want, I'm also in SF. I do a lot of those interviews
from the other side. You can get my contact info in my user info page.

------
vasco
What a missed opportunity to gather data on all the countries they don't
support yet by at least allowing you to see how you are vs the supported
countries and using the data to start supporting more.

~~~
joshschreuder
There is a bit on the side to add your own salary which shows countries
unsupported by the main search

[https://i.imgur.com/Hb9sMig.png](https://i.imgur.com/Hb9sMig.png)

------
SCdF
Upon using the calculator, the Location won't fill in properly. Looking at the
console:

> You have exceeded your daily request quota for this API. For more
> information on usage limits and the Google Maps Javascript API services
> please see…

Wow, either the calculator is incredibly popular, or someone didn't change
their api key from their dev one…

------
thurn
As usual, failing to take into account equity and bonuses makes this less
useful. Salary is <= 50% of the story for most senior roles.

~~~
KirinDave
I'm sorry, but I think this is much better for not including funny money from
startups that give private equity grants, at least I in the lower bands of the
range.

I know people for whom half their pay is equity and they can't even afford to
take the options. And for many places I've been, the stock was never sellable
outside of shady private stock trading groups that your board may or may not
let you sell to.

~~~
wvao0e9nt3
Yeah, but not everyone's non-salary income is funny money from startups. I
work at a Fortune 100 and get stock grants (not options, but actual shares) as
part of my compensation. It's real and I can trade it that day (and pay high
taxes on it), or hold it and trade it later.

~~~
KirinDave
I had this situation at my last employer and yes, if it's a publicly traded
company the situation is different.

I don't see why you felt the need to make a fresh anonymous accont to share
this?

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itsmemattchung
Apparently, knowing assembly _decreases_ your salary:
[https://imgur.com/a/8c9fL](https://imgur.com/a/8c9fL)

~~~
smt88
I'm going to bet that "knowing Assembly" is (in this case) a proxy for age.
Older devs are more likely to know it, and older devs face enormous amounts of
discrimination.

------
jedberg
I'm surprised they don't have a box at the bottom, after you get your results,
that says, "How did we do? What is your current salary?"

~~~
cshenoy
There's a box above the graph that asks: "Is this accurate? Please help us
improve the Salary Calculator by adding your salary"

~~~
jedberg
Yours must be different than mine:

[https://imgur.com/a/xCsE9](https://imgur.com/a/xCsE9)

~~~
smurfysmurf
Directly to the right of where your screenshot is.

~~~
jedberg
Not for me: [https://imgur.com/a/agXEb](https://imgur.com/a/agXEb)

------
runT1ME
Why does SO seem to completely omit "backend engineers". I don't work on web
stuff, I write network applications/cloud services.

There are a lot of folks similar doing that at amazom, google, etc.

Does this seem like a huge oversight to anyone else?

~~~
joezydeco
No embedded engineers. No graphics work. No UI work. No keywords for things
like "microcontroller", or "driver", or "Linux".

~~~
bostik
And no security engineers either.

~~~
user5994461
It's much rarer than development roles. Doubt that they have significant data.

------
maaark
Yeah, apparently I'm underpaid by half...

~~~
gshakir
How do you figure that? If you are in the 50th percentile?

~~~
shawabawa3
50th percentile i guess is the "fair" wage

I'm ~30% lower than the 25th percentile... :/

~~~
mberger
I'm at the 25th percentile (in Canada). In my case I'm not in a tech heavy
area so can't job hop to get the usual raises. I imagine in the states the
numbers probably vary more too.

~~~
mesozoic
Remote work

------
seattle_spring
Lol... My base salary at a startup is 50% more than the 75th percentile for
Seattle. Also, coffeescript is listed as a distinct technology? Makes no sense
to me.

~~~
sumitgt
Yeah, also machine learning cannot be added in the skills section.

Not sure what happened here. Stack Overflow generally puts out better analysis
and posts.

~~~
majewsky
> Not sure what happened here. Stack Overflow generally puts out better
> analysis and posts.

My guess is that they don't have enough data for niche topics like ML. (ML is
still pretty niche in terms of headcount compared to, say, webdev.) The tags
that they offer are probably those where they have reasonably many data points
to actually get something resembling a distribution.

------
staticelf
My country isn't supported :(

Also a lot of technologies seems to be missing, like .NET.

~~~
mfoy_
Yeah, they also didn't include a lot of proprietary platforms. For example if
you have 5+ years of customizing and implementing a specific enterprise
platform you're probably highly in demand, but it's hard to approach that from
a "developer salary" point of view.

------
markwaldron
This "calculator" really makes me appreciate the higher salaries in NYC
compared to other places. Yes, the cost of living is higher, but if you are
willing to commute 30ish minutes a day from outside of Manhattan, you can
avoid a lot of the cost.

~~~
EnderMB
I'm in the UK, but I've always thought of moving to NYC one day (despite the
man in government at the mo).

Is it really only a 30 minute commute into Manhattan?! I live in Bristol, and
at times I've had an hour commute by bus. I always assumed that Americans
spent longer on commute in the larger cities.

~~~
lbotos
Currently in Brooklyn, NY, it's 30 min to lower manhattan on this side. On the
NJ side, it's probably about the same from Hoboken/Jersey City.

~~~
itschekkers
even in Greenpoint/Williamsburg/Bed-Stuy/Hoboken you're still paying 1500 a
month to share with a few roommates though.

~~~
phyller
I thought Williamsburg was more expensive than most places in Manhattan now?
You can find a ton of cheaper places in Manhattan (still expensive) if you are
willing to go farther north. But then you have to deal with a longer subway
trip. It's odd that commuting to midtown from Stamford, Connecticut is about
the same from Inwood, Manhattan. If you don't mind an hour commute, and you
work in midtown, metro north is really good and Stamford and the areas around
are really nice and much cheaper. You can buy an actual house.

------
bad_login
If i am not mistaken the salaries given for the US is what the company
actually pays, but the salaries given for France it's not what the company
pays. We (the french) discuss our salaries in 'brut' (gross) and are never
aware of what we actually cost. The company will pays something (close) up to
42% more of this gross value. So i suspect the difference between US salaries
and French (and probably german, uk) is unfair.

------
user5994461
Would be nice to display the UK numbers in GBP and the European countries in
EUR. The numbers in dollars are meaningless.

------
kalal
Data scientist scores top in the chart. Funny to find later on that the author
calls her self data scientist as well. To me this is little off putting. It is
like a doctor claiming that doctors are the most healthy people. Which might
be true, but strange, don't you feel? ;)

------
symlinkk
Wow apparently i’m underpaid. I make $63k as a full stack .NET web developer
in Knoxville, Tennessee. I have always dreamed of moving to Seattle and
joining a startup. How can I make that dream a reality? I’ve tried applying to
a bunch of places and got nothing but rejections.

~~~
jordache
startups generally do not use .NET

~~~
symlinkk
what should I learn then?

~~~
whitef0x
Ruby, Golang, Serverside JS (aka NodeJS) or Python would be a start

~~~
romanovcode
Startups do not use Ruby anymore as well.

------
nartz
For some reason the form lets you have 'negative' years of experience - is
that a thing?

~~~
dotancohen
I suspect that I've got about negative three years of experience in Java 9,
and a good negative five years of experience in C2022. To be honest, though, I
don't expect to ever have positive years' experience in Perl 7.

------
hackermailman
The meager wages for full stack and backend developer are correct for where I
live (Vancouver, CA) except the lowest tier is not low enough. It would be
nice to see the raw data too so I can run my own stats on them. Give this
calculator a public API

------
Xcelerate
Data science is less than devops on average? That doesn't sound right...

~~~
nerdponx
Many/most of the "data science" posts on StackOverflow are actually "data
engineer" or "machine learning engineer" positions.

------
cableshaft
Seems broader than I expected. Entered several different roles, technology,
etc in the calculator and got pretty much identical results. I am in Chicago
though, that might have something to do with it.

------
ksec
I am guessing salary are yearly total?

Lots places uses salary as a monthly unit.

~~~
seattle_spring
Not in the US they don't.

------
KirinDave
The 5 supported tags thing in their form leads me to believe I am undervalued.

Cuz uh, I checked 13 things conseratively that I'd feel comfortable talking
about in an interview.

------
sabujp
How much do programmers, devops, etc make in China? I've always wondered,
because I think that's where everything is headed in terms of wage parity.

------
alexandercrohde
Meh, garbage. I always see these things that are significantly off, by like
$60,000 or more. You're not asking the important questions that relate to
earnings:

\- Were you born in America or has your employer held your pay down because
you have a green card?

\- How many times have you changed jobs (each time probably leads to a $15k
bump or more!)

What garbage. If you're going to do an analysis like this try to teach us
something interesting by looking at numerous factors (race, sex, age, major,
do you have a github, public speaking skill, number of raises asked for, etc)

~~~
nerdponx
I'm so sorry that someone created a free tool to explore an interesting and
unique data set using basic summary statistics. Shame you had to waste your
time looking at that kind of garbage.

Of course you make good points about salary. But this is just using data from
the SO jobs board. What do you expect?

------
tclancy
One thing I was confused by: if I check the box that I work remotely, do I put
in where I work from or where my company is based?

~~~
ryanx435
Company.

------
lin_lin
Not really an exhaustive list of positions... Anyways the figures for my area
are well off and I suspect London-tainted.

------
Jeremy1026
According to this I'm making about 15% under the 50th percentile. Time to go
ask for a raise?

------
pascalxus
Anyways, it's a good example of how to do inbound marketing. It certainly
worked on me!

------
cooervo
The salary stated is at least -10,000€ below what I get paid and my coworkers.

------
tmaly
I have used indeed.com/salary just to get a ballpark idea

------
maruhan2
DevOps is the highest?! Whaaaa. Can someone explain why DevOps is the most
paid?

~~~
Arcsech
Higher pay in exchange for being on-call, I'd guess.

