
Colemak keyboard layout - sirsar
http://colemak.com/
======
dmnd
I'm not sure how relevant this is to anyone, but this post is as good excuse
as any to talk about my transition to Colemak.

In January I moved from Qwerty to Colemak, and also from a staggered to a
columnar keyboard layout (on a Kinesis keyboard[1]). My Qwerty speed was only
75 wpm and my accuracy was terrible. Also I couldn't touch type - I never
learnt to type properly with Qwerty; I just started typing when I was young
and developed lots of bad habits. By the time someone tried to teach me how to
type properly my habits were too ingrained to change. (Or maybe I was too
stubborn -- I also have a strange way of holding a pen.)

Anyway, I decided to change to Colemak, and to learn to touch type properly. I
also liked the idea of a columnar layout so I changed to a Kinesis. What's
interesting is that because of the physically different keyboards, I actually
cannot type in Qwerty on my Kinesis, and I also cannot type in Colemak on my
laptop keyboard. This means I have maintained my Qwerty skills.

My current maximum speed is roughly 70 wpm in Colemak, so I am almost at my
Qwerty speed after 6 months, although now I can touch type so it's more
useful. When I type with Qwerty now, it feels like my hands are flying all
over the place. I also feel like I have a lot of room to get faster than I
currently am with Colemak.

So even though I have maintained my Qwerty skills, the only reason I need them
is because I can't get a laptop with a columnar keyboard. I may end up just
biting the bullet and switching to Colemak on that laptop keyboard anyway,
though missing the thumb cluster is killer.

One other interesting thing I learnt is that using Colemak on a smartphone
completely sucks. Having commonly used keys on the home row on a small
touchscreen means that it's much more error prone, as you're hitting the same
area on the screen consecutively.

[1]: [http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/advantage.htm](http://www.kinesis-
ergo.com/advantage.htm)

~~~
veidr
I am very jealous of you -- my inability to maintain QWERTY after I switched
to Colemak was what forced me to grudgingly switch back.

I just couldn't do it; after I became acclimated to Colemak, my QWERTY was
just destroyed. I had to _think_ about where the keys were in QWERTY, and I
realized I don't even really know, because typing is a doing-without-thinking
activity. So I ended up having to _look_ , which is extremely inefficient and
finally I abandoned Colemak. (I couldn't avoid QWERTY because part of my job
these days entails showing people how to do things on their own computers,
which aren't using Colemak.)

The same thing happened when I learned Japanese; I used to be conversant in
Spanish, and after I got to roughly the same level in Japanese (from living in
Japan) one day I noticed that the Spanish wasn't there anymore -- I would have
to think about what I wanted to say in my native English and convert it to
Spanish.

Seems like a way different thing, but it felt the same, because it was like an
unconscious activity being supplanted by another, and thus becoming something
I had to _think_ about. Which broke it.

It made me sad though, because now typing QWERTY feels idiotic. Kludgey and
stupid. Colemak didn't make me a significantly faster typist (maybe it would
have had I done it for more than 9 months) but it was way more _comfortable_.

~~~
mbrock
I use Dvorak, and I have almost no problems typing QWERTY. But this only came
after I became completely fluent in Dvorak. When I still had to think to type
Dvorak, I couldn't switch to thinking about QWERTY without getting all
confused. Now I just peek a little at the keyboard with QWERTY, especially for
non-alphanumeric symbols, but it's no problem.

~~~
JungleGymSam
I had to abandon Dvorak because it killed my ability to do QWERTY. It was also
an _almost_ traumatic experience because when I was going through it I felt
like I was going crazy or that I was just plain stupid. How could my brain
possibly discard 20+ years of QWERTY after just a few weeks of Dvorak.

But having said that I recently learned that other people have had the same
experience and so now I don't feel so bad and I want to change again.

/lifestory

------
nhamann
I tried to switch to Colemak once, but it was too big of a change. I did,
however, successfully switch to an alternative of the Carpalx QWKRFY layout:
[http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?partial_optimization](http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?partial_optimization)

Instead of 5 swaps, I only do the first three (K/E, J/O, F/T). According to
their scoring function, it gets you most of the way there anyways. (Whatever
that's worth).

Their rankings of popular layouts might also be of interest:
[http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?popular_alternatives](http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?popular_alternatives)

------
deadfall
I am cautious to change my keyboard layout because I use a lot of different
machines. Has anyone tried this or the Programmer Dvorak layout?

Ref:
[http://www.kaufmann.no/roland/dvorak/](http://www.kaufmann.no/roland/dvorak/)

~~~
nknighthb
I use the standard Dvorak layout. It hasn't been that big a deal for me.

Things have gone something like this:

1) Learn Dvorak at a time when I only used my own machines. Stay that way for
~3 years.

During this time, after my typing speed and error rate had reached QWERTY
levels, the occasional use of QWERTY on someone else's PC was highly annoying.

2) Spend 2-3 years in jobs involving near-daily use of machines I couldn't
switch off QWERTY, but still did most of my work on Dvorak.

A few weeks into this, I was able to use QWERTY effectively again, still
typing faster than most people ever can (though slower and more error-prone
than I was with Dvorak).

3) Go back to exclusively using my own machines for ~2 years.

After a while, annoying to use QWERTY, but not nearly as bad as during period
#1.

4) Spend ~9 months in similar situation as #2 again.

After a while, same as 2, a few weeks in things were pretty OK.

5) Now (for ~2 years), using only my own machines.

Occasional QWERTY is annoying, but even better than during #3.

I only speak English, but I suspect switching between Dvorak and QWERTY is
kind of similar to switching between a language you use a lot and one you use
a little. Degree of fluency in the little-used language goes up and down based
on how much practice you're getting.

~~~
disc
I switched to Dvorak 11+ years when I was in college and had a lot of time to
kill. I think your spoken language fluency analogy is pretty accurate; I
imagine I'll always retain a bit of my 'native' qwerty muscle-memory, but the
more I practice it, the easier it is to make the mental 'switch' between
languages.

That said, if I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't switch to Dvorak. The
efficiency gained on my keyboard layout does not offset the efficiency lost on
shared computers.

~~~
nknighthb
I definitely wouldn't suggest anyone switch for performance reasons. I
switched because of pain. It helped that a lot. Made virtually no long-term
difference in typing speed.

(Then again, my typing speed has been 90+ wpm since I was about 9, so I'm an
outlier in various ways.)

------
thatswrong0
I've used Colemak for a year and a half now. The common shortcut keys are in
the same place still (ctrl-c, ctrl-v, etc.). I use Vim and keep the default
bindings and it works fine (though movement is odd.. up and down are
inverted). I used to type at around 100 wpm with QWERTY and can reach that or
higher now. I can still use QWERTY when I need to although I have to look down
a bit.

All in all I like it. It feels good and efficient to type. I initially
switched because I wanted to learn to touch type on QWERTY.. Not only was it a
struggle to change habits but QWERTY felt just.. Awful and slow. So I wanted
to learn a new layout. Colemak seemed less radical than Dvorak and also more
efficient (less finger movement). Learning a whole new layout was quite hard
(especially in the middle of a semester), but I think it did make learning to
touch type easier. The hardest part was 's' being moved a letter to the
right.. I confused 'r' and 's' for a while now. So yeah, if anyone is thinking
about trying it, go for it. Don't rearrange the keys, just print out the
layout and look at that for reference so you learn the locations by feel.

~~~
leod
I'm a Vim user as well, and when I tried Colemak for a few months some years
back, Vim was what made me go back to QWERTY. It was just too awkward as I
would like to be able to work with both layouts.

Creating new bindings didn't work for me at all (especially since I didn't
want to lose the ability to use someone else's Vim, or a vanilla Vim). I think
the key might be to focus on what shortcut key you're actually pressing
instead of where it is on the keyboard. This turned out to be pretty difficult
for me with the hjkl keys, which are, as you say, fairly odd.

Interestingly enough though, today I can still write Colemak fluently whenever
I accidentally switch to it, and it's a lot of fun! So I might give this whole
thing with Colemak a new try, knowing that someone went the same route as I
(keeping the default Vim shortcut bindings).

~~~
thatswrong0
It also helps that I wasn't too proficient with Vim, if at all, when I started
using Colemak, so I didn't have to deal with any burned in habits with Vim
either.

------
HNJohnC
The author of that site should site stats comparing Colemak with Dvorak
because that's really their 'competition' so to speak.

~~~
thatswrong0
There's a link right on the front page ('Compare') to an applet which compares
QWERTY, Dvorak, and Colemak..

~~~
vehementi
Yeah but the author doesn't provide any summary stats or analysis like he/she
does vs. qwerty. I would potentially be switching from dvorak - on average is
there much difference?

I ended up pasting some posts from this thread into the compare tool. Colemak
and dvorak seem pretty similar, with colemak consistently having slightly less
same-finger usage (i.e. two keys in a row being pressed by the same finger).
Both are about the same improvement over qwerty. Doesn't look like it's worth
switching from dvorak.

------
brendyn
I observed something quite strange that readers might find interesting. When I
first tried to learn Dvorak two years ago I found that it completely destroy
ability to type qwerty. I simply couldn't type either layouts! I ended up
giving up early and regaining my qwerty powers. But then just last year I
tried to learn it again and found that it had genuinely no effect on my qwerty
ability. I could switch between them like a fluent multi-linguist. Naturally I
gave up again :P until last week when I decided on giving Colemak a proper go.
I have been on Colemak for 3 days without changing back until right now when I
wrote the second half of this with switching back to qwerty, and observe no
difficulty in typing, except for backspace where I keep occidentally hitting
the CAPS key which is what I use as backspace for Colemak. Not sure why my
brain seems to treat backspace differently such that that happens... I also
have no idea how my strange experience happened, but for those concerned about
forgetting their qwerty ability, know that you don't need to even if at first
your mind turns to spaghetti and you can't even type with any layout

------
beaker52
I switched to Colemak in December last year so I'm 6/7 months in. Anecdotes
and tips within.

At the same time I picked up KeyboardRemap4Macbook (not just macbooks, but
osx) which has some other interesting features. One important one I use daily
is using held down spacebar to enable arrow navigation by UNEI, and "return"
on O. Related is the terribly named but essential PCKeyboardHack which allows
one to remap the CAPSLOCK key to backspace, giving me a more accessible
backspace key. I suspect this is a double edge sword though, lowering the cost
of an error.

When I started with Colemak I was slow. I forced myself to write even urgent
mail in it, else I wouldn't succeed. I ended up writing emails as if English
were my 2nd language but after a week I was over it.

Changing my phone to Colemak was a very helpful aid. Avoid writing in Qwerty.

I also learnt for a while on a keyboard without the letters on the right keys.
This screwed me up big time at first (i didn't touch type) but I pushed
through. Now I work daily on a keyboard with Qwerty layout but don't give it a
second thought and it just serves to mess with the minds of my colleagues.

I still have to look for numbers because I just don't type them frequently.

I haven't had a massive speed increase because my speed is limited by my
ability to decide what I'm going to write which is dreadfully slow. I make
fewer errors.

Going back to qwerty is relatively easy if I free my mind. I typed cowboy
Qwerty with my hands flying all over the keyboard for so long that it is
possible for me to call it back. I am sure this is made easier in part by the
two layouts being typed in completely different styles, Colemak formally and
disciplined by correctness and touch, Qwerty as an untempered and free dance
of my fingers and hands.

------
fooyc
What matters most when programming is all the non alpha numeric symbols.

You likely type symbols such as ', ", (, and ) more often than all numbers,
and more often than half the letters.

If these symbols are accessible only by using the shift or alt gr keys, your
keyboard layout sucks for programing.

Colemak sucks as a programing layout (just like virtually all keyboard layours
actually).

~~~
sirsar
Remapping my AltGr layout has done me wonders. I can press AltGr with my right
thumb, and then I get {}[]()_= as the no-motion home row. Colemak has nothing
to say about AltGr.

------
jawngee
I type about 125 wpm with QWERTY. I've been touch typing since I was 6 though
(Dad was a writer and bought me my first typewriter when I was 5).

Interestingly, I get about a 5-10 wpm bump when I smoke marijuana.

I tried switching to DVORAK to see what the hub bub was about. Spent about two
weeks with it but never attained the same speeds. I'd try Colemak but I'm not
sure what I'd gain.

Keyboard makes a huge difference for me too. Apple's keyboards suck and can
put a serious dent in my speed. I've been using the Moshi Luna and it's like
playing a piano, though it's more cheaply made then it appears (I've been
through two).

I'm fastest on an IBM Selectric typewriter though. When the fingers are
blazing there is definitely a rhythm that you fall into that maintains that
speed, so long as your brain doesn't jam up.

~~~
DennisP
You might like a nice mechanical keyboard. This is a good source:
[http://www.elitekeyboards.com/](http://www.elitekeyboards.com/)

A good starter keyboard is the Leopold with Cherry brown switches. There's a
slight feedback bump partway down, and that's as far as you have to press to
register the stroke. Your fingers can just float across the keys, very
comfortable and, after a little practice, very fast.

I recently bought that one, and another with Cherry red switches, which lack
the feedback bump. Now I'm completely hooked. And as a bonus, it costs about
the same as your Luna, is rated for 50 million keystrokes, and if you spill
something on it you can just soak it in water and let it dry out a couple
days.

Lots of good discussion at geekhack.org.

------
chaetodon
Lefthanders like me need an inverse Colemak to remain effective, given that
many of the most used letters are on a QWERTY keyboard on my left hand (while
with Colemak e.g. the E has moved to the right). Does an inverse Colemak
exist?

~~~
m_ram
I don't think this exists. Using the keyboard layout analyzer [1], it looks
like your perceived hand usage might not match up with actual usage. At least
for typing out _Alice 's Adventures in Wonderland_, Qwerty slightly favors the
right hand (52% vs 48%). Colemak is only slightly worse for a lefty (56% vs
44%). Dvorak greatly favors the right hand (65% vs 35%).

[1] [http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-
analyzer/](http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/)

------
paduc
I wonder if switching to a new keyboard layout is easier for people who are
already used to switching between layouts (I use both Azerty and Qwerty), like
it's easier for someone bilingual to learn a new language.

------
codered
I'm not sure why every new layout decides to remove the CAPS LOCK KEY. I
imagine coders aren't the inventors of these layouts.

~~~
portmanteaufu
May I infer from your post that you use Caps Lock at least semi-regularly?

Myself, I abhor it. I've always just held Shift, even for long runs of capital
letters. As far as my usage patterns go, Caps Lock serves only to foil my
attempts to type my password. :/

------
malkia
The FPS shooter fans would be delighted - where previously WASD were used now
they read WARS!

~~~
sirsar
Just remap it within the FPS (don't they all have this option?), or press
Alt+Shift when you enter the game.

------
shocks
vim config?

