
Google Announces Nest WiFi - aminecodes
https://blog.google/products/google-nest/nest-wifi/
======
ssully
I got a single Google WiFi router (home is small enough to not need the mesh)
last year to pretty terrible results. I mainly got it for more frequent
firmware updates, and easy administration via their phone app (easier to use
then my Netgear Nighthawk; i.e. can show my wife how to use it).

Everything worked great with it for the first few months, but then I started
getting severe speed drops - specifically I was seeing download rates of
20MBps or less, when I should be getting 350MBps or less. I did all of their
recommended troubleshooting (reset router, reset modem, restore to factory
settings and reupdate the firmware, move router away from potential sources of
interference, etc) and could not solve the issue. I still had my Nighthawk and
ended up spending an afternoon testing the two, and the Google WiFi router
would consistently drop speeds, while the Nighthawk stayed rock solid.

I ended up just sticking with my Nighthawk and throwing my Google Wifi in a
drawer. I was outside their return window, and honestly just had no desire to
try and go through Google's customer service (or finding out if it even exists
for their WiFi devices). Long story short, it was the worst experience I've
ever had with a router and I would hesitate to ever try their WiFi devices
again.

~~~
lbotos
Ya know, I'm _literally_ experiencing this right now and It's befuddling. For
the past week or so, I've been using fast.com and _only_ from my Macbook Pro
do I see the speed drop. My phone on wifi only will maintain 200Mbps++ I'm
really mad because it's been seamless until now.

~~~
wstrange
My mac pro sometimes does the same thing, whil other devices in the house
don't seem to have this issue. Reconnecting the wifi seems to fix it.

I'm not sure if this is a google wifi problem (I have the OnHub) - or an issue
with the mac pro wifi drivers.

~~~
lbotos
Right, I noticed that too! The weird thing is... it appears to be a _new_
Macbook Pro driver problem. I have a 2013 and I don't see this behavior on
that one. Just the 2016. sigh....

I restarted my macbook pro 2016 wifi and I'm getting 50Mbps

2013 with the same test: 150 Mbps

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blablaz
Does it mean when Google bans your account, you will lose your wifi as well?

~~~
hysan
Or if they decide that they don't recognize you anymore that you're forever
locked out of your account?

~~~
atomi
Like God forbid you lose your password and their AI refuses to authenticate
you. The Google borg-like organization seems to lack any semblance of
humanity.

~~~
hysan
It can be worse than that. You don't even need to lose your password. You just
have to not login for a long time.

For me, I made a one off account using my personal email/domain years ago. I
think it might have been for a shared link or something. Google required phone
numbers so I gave it one. Haven't logged in since and no longer have that
phone number.

I got a shared link to an interview assignment during my recent job search,
but much to my surprise, Google wouldn't let me login! Password hadn't changed
(I use a password manager). However, Google's AI thinks I'm not me. I can
answer everything but the phone txt during their recovery process; I even have
the original activation email archived so I know the exact date I made the
account. I even dusted off my old old old laptop to try using a "recognized
device". No luck. All I get are warning emails from Google saying, "Don't
worry! We stopped an unrecognized login attempt!"

I asked for access to be given to another email, but I guess I took too long
in trying to dig up old hardware and trusting that Google's recovery process
was sane. I got rejected.

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tyingq
_" The Nest Wifi point also has a speaker with the Google Assistant"_

Ahh. I see.

~~~
ve55
I thought it was funny they said "has a speaker with the Google Assistant"
rather than "has a _microphone listening to you_ for Google Assistant"

~~~
mav3rick
You can disable the microphone via a Hardware button.

~~~
NikolaeVarius
A hardware button that presumably uses software to toggle the mic versus
literally unplugging a cable to the mic.

~~~
Arelius
I know that during the design of the original Pixel laptop, things like
physically powering down and disabling the camera, rather than doing it in
firmware was important to the team at Google. I wonder if they have maintained
that vigilance.

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martin-adams
I don't really have a lot of trust with Google to deliver a great consumer
product in this area. I switched from Alexa to Google Home and just because
I'm a GSuite customer, I have lost the ability to access my calendar or set
reminders. It's like they just wanted to tick a few boxes to show a cool
concept, then forgot to make a well rounded product out of it.

~~~
disgruntledphd2
Honestly, I often get the impression that no Google PM's actually use their
products. They look nice, but never work effectively.

~~~
erid
Even on the development side, I got that impression with the first version of
Angular, they created the framework but rarely used it on their development.

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dannyw
I like my routers dumb and without a speaker and microphone.

~~~
zrail
Personally I like my routers smart and in a rack in the basement. Agreed on
the lack of speaker and microphone though.

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dev_dull
> _You can get a two pack with one router and one point for $269_

No mention of whether it supports 802.11ax. Why are WiFi devices lagging in
speed advancements so much?

I ended up purchasing a second hand AirPort Extreme because it’s still one of
the best performing 802.11ac devices (in my anecdotal experiences of running a
lot of clients)... and it’s OLD!

~~~
pathartl
My experience with the AirPort Extreme has been terrible to say the least.
Over the years I have gone through 4 of them due to some poor design with the
hardware. Usually is was the fan failing which caused a massive slowdown to
the point where it's not usable. I took it into the Apple Store, they couldn't
find the problem, I made a big stink and they gave me a new one. That one
survived for another 6 months and failed in the same way.

I switched to Ubiquiti and won't look back. It's cheaper, enterprise grade
hardware. If you know anything about networking, setting up the environment
isn't that big of a deal, but is definitely a deterrent for some.

~~~
supercommand
Ubiquiti is not enterprise grade anything.

Especially not the last 3 years or so when it’s been a buggy software mess of
outdated dependencies.

------
fjabre
I detest the fact that Google bought Nest. Now I have the pleasure of logging
into a convoluted Google UX instead of the familiar Nest UX.

And here we have another intrusion of Google into our home. It's clear Google
has no respect for anyone's privacy and is now a part of the problem.

~~~
ljcn
Why did you migrate? I was given the option to but haven't (yet, nor been
forced to).

~~~
atonse
I have stubbornly not migrated. I expressly advise people who value their
privacy to not to get NEST now for this reason.

EcoBee is a great HomeKit-aware thermostat and you don't need to sign up to
their account to use it (although it'll keep nagging you to, it's not
required).

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untog
So does this mean my Google Wifi router isn’t getting any new updates, or...?

~~~
kemayo
Isn't it getting incredibly slow updates anyway? I mean, examining the release
notes[1] suggests that there's not been an update since June, and there was a
1 year gap between the last two updates. So: Google behaving according to
form, really.

[1]:
[https://support.google.com/wifi/answer/9378012?hl=en&ref_top...](https://support.google.com/wifi/answer/9378012?hl=en&ref_topic=6246512)

~~~
jumpingmice
I'm not seeing the 1-year gap? I'm pretty sure where it says "January 2018" is
a typo, was actually 2019.

~~~
kemayo
Hm, you're right, that does seem to be a typo. I'll downgrade to "six month
gap".

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beaner
Anyone know why they changed it so that you now need a router + repeater,
rather than every point being a router and repeater like Google Wifi was? That
was much simpler - all units interchangeable. Cost reduction maybe?

~~~
TrueDuality
Most likely it was cost reduction to meet competitors. The router needs to do
more work handing packets than just store and forward (which is basically all
the mesh nodes have to do with packets).

The D-Link Covr series and the Amplifi are probably the best direct
competitors for this. Neither require a cloud subscription to work either.
Both have "tri-band" which basically just means they actually have a dedicated
radio to use as a backhaul (which this doesn't).

The Covr is ~$200 for 2 units and Amplifi is about ~$340 for three units so
this is more expensive already than either of what I think of as its direct
competitors. The only "feature" that this has the others don't is Google
Assistant and in my book the lack of it is a win.

I've personally used the Covr mesh nodes and they're pretty solid and easy to
use.

~~~
tbyehl
AmpliFi does not have dedicated backhaul.

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rainyMammoth
Don't buy a Wifi router from Google. We all know that they are incentivized to
collect data from you

~~~
bpodgursky
"Don't buy consumer electronics from Google to help them build non-advertising
revenue streams, we want to make sure that only DoubleClick is ever
profitable."

~~~
wmf
The HN hive mind theory is that Google consumer electronics exist solely to
collect more data to target ads at you better. It's all advertising.

------
andruby
I wonder how long untill they pull the plug and people are left with a brick
that isn't updated.

For that price, have a look at Ubiquity's Unifi line (and Amplifi). Great
router, great AP's, frequent firmware upgrades and no privacy concerns.

------
Urgo
I've been using the old Google Wifi system for several years now and its been
decent.. with two big caveats

1) I hate the mobile only interface. It's nice to have one, but no desktop
interface (unless I run an emulator) is really annoying when trying to manage
and monitor the network.

2) You need to have a s-H-s type topology where each satellite connects
directly to the main unit. Thankfully most areas of my house are hardwired so
I can plug them in, but there are some areas that don't have good coverage
that I'd love to chain another satellite to, but its too far for it to reach
the hub over wifi (no cable is run), and it doesn't support branching off of
another satellite.

For the new system it looks like their solution to #1 is to put the controls
into an even worse app...

For item #2, anyone know if it will support s-s-s-s-H chaining?

On a related note.. I actually got into a support chat with them once asking
about that and their support rep said it didn't work because my cable modem
had nat enabled and if I turned that off it'd work great _facepalm_. After a
lengthy discussion he thanked me for teaching him about networking.

------
acejam
Many of these features appear very similar to Eero[1]. It's a clear battle
against Eero/Amazon for market share.

If you're looking for simple rock-solid mesh WiFi, Eero is what you want.

[1] [https://eero.com](https://eero.com)

------
yalogin
Having to login using a google account is pretty unsettling to me. What
happens when I lose access to the account?

Also they now have a verified identity to all my data from my router. I know
they will have that anyway given my Gmail sends them the ip, they just have a
detailed view of all urls I use and every site I go to and how long i spend
there. I bought one and it worked fine but in a few weeks I just couldn’t use
it because of this unsettling feeling. Ended up throwing it in the drawer. May
be should have returned it instead, oh well.

------
gnicholas
> _Many routers are ugly, which means they get hidden in a closet or cabinet,
> where the signal is blocked and can be reduced by up to 50 percent._

I never understood why the Apple HomePod didn't have a network-extender
functionality. I'm sure it has the necessary hardware, and it would have
helped justify the high price. I'm glad to see others are putting these
features (smart speaker + wifi extender) together!

------
prepend
I don’t think I’d ever add a box to my home network that sniffed all traffic
and sent it to Google, even if they paid me. Even if it had the functions of a
Star Trek replicator.

I’m worried enough now that my Nest is doing bad things, but I can set that up
on its own network that only it has access to. Giving Google such access to my
home network is scary.

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ProZsolt
All the new products use barrel jack for power which is a step backward form
USB-C or even from USB MiniB (Home Mini).

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spacedog11
How is this different than the already existing Wifi Mesh devices?

~~~
albertzeyer
I also wondered about that. From the blog post:

* "making it even better"

* "includes the Google Assistant" (I guess this means its Google Wifi + Google Home combined?)

* "Nest Wifi is more powerful than Google Wifi, delivering up to two times the speed and up to 25 percent better coverage."

I'm a bit wondering why it has the "Nest" name tag.

~~~
krisroadruck
The 2X speed increase is just coming from better MU-MIMO adoption, moving to
4x4 on 5G from 2x2. This is pretty old tech. 4x4 MU-MIMO has been available
for several years now (since 2016).

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Brajeshwar
How does a Google's WiFi compares to the likes of AmpliFi[1]?

1\. [https://amplifi.com](https://amplifi.com)

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foobarbazetc
Missed opportunity to put out a WiFi 6 device.

Would love one without the microphone, too.

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meddlin
Haha, no. Just no.

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hiven
Sure this will last long.

