
Ask HN: Hiring at crummy wage – how to make it better? - bassmaster
In short: I&#x27;ve recently started a small game studio and I was considering bringing in an artist as an employee.<p>Now, we&#x27;re still a little way off getting any real money in (consulting is the majority right now), so I have worked out I can afford to pay not really more than around £20-25k&#x2F;pa. At least initially.<p>I was hoping to offset this somewhat with the following:<p>* 35 hour weeks max<p>* 40 days holiday&#x2F;pa<p>* Work remotely<p>* Some budget for training etc<p>* Some equity TBC<p>* Decent wage jump in the future<p>The last one depends on the applicant not thinking we&#x27;re full of crap of course.<p>Other relevant info: this is in the northern UK, so whilst still lower, this is not comparing against SV wages.<p>Does this sound at least somewhat reasonable to you? Alternatively, what would you want to see that would make you consider such an offer? If indeed anything!
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JSeymourATL
> this is in the northern UK --

The profile you are looking for is the young kid, who needs the space to
exercise his talents. This person is most likely not 'looking' for work. They
merely love creating, tinkering, & gaming. Actually getting paid is a bonus.
Think Steve Jobs @ Atari>
[http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/127537/Steve_Jobs_Atari_E...](http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/127537/Steve_Jobs_Atari_Employee_Number_40.php)

You will find them by networking with teachers/professors even a sports coach.
Anyone who works with young people. Incidentally, managing this talent also
requires special skills.

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andymurd
Is it possible to hire a young, newly qualified(?) artist for the role but
also spend some money on training and mentoring? Aside, do artists
need/benefit from a qualification for a role like this?

Or hire a mother that is returning to the workforce. Choices can be very
limited for people that need to pick up the kids after school and take time
off during holidays. There's a massive pool of talent in that demographic.

~~~
threesixandnine
I know of a marketing company that hired a mother recently. 3-4 days a week
and come in hour later and go out hour earlier. She put to shame all
20something young guns. High quality work and fast.

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saluki
That's why they call it work . . . (Lots of people work for a crummy rate, I
think about it, it bothers me, do what you can to be a good employer and
improve lives.)

I know I'd like to pay everyone six figures but market rates apply . . .

Avoid the headaches and cost, don't hire an employee . . .

Use contractors as long as you can. Take what you'd pay them as an employee
and pay them above market rate for small gigs.

Distribute holiday pay as bonuses for work well done.

This will keep them happy and coming back to you plus you can try different
people out and have someone in mind when you do grow to the point where you
need someone full time.

I expect you could use contract employees even as you grow as I expect
artists/graphics work could be completed as bundles of work.

Avoid hiring a full time employee . . . until it's absolutely necessary.

Paying a contractor more than market rate and nice bonuses would make you a
great employer and build loyal contractors that will stick around.

Good luck with your game studio.

If you have an interesting game coming out post it here.

Especially Space, Sci-Fi and strategy games = )

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sfrailsdev
I'd look at hiring remotely. But I would see if I could split initial elements
up into smaller contract tasks and hire people piecemeal to get a sense of
work product for remote employees, and make the best of them an offer.

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bassmaster
We've tried this but so far they all prefer the contracting life - and we need
some consistency rather than switching contractors often as they pick up new
work or just vanish.

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emilburzo
There should be a website for crummy wages...

I wouldn't mind exchanging some money for a remote job with more (then usual)
freedom and a humane team/owner.

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loumf
I would keep it simple

1\. Figure out what the market is for the normal work-week.

2\. Scale the work-week until you can afford it.

3\. When you can afford more, add more hours.

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kobigurk
Could you clarify something for me? How do you have budget for training that
couldn't go into salary?

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bassmaster
Well it could, but then there'd be nothing left for training.

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nickfromseattle
Create a story around your vision, product and team. People will pursue
opportunities for less income if the opportunities help them achieve their
goals or align with their values. I can't tell you what your story is, but
here are a couple examples to get you started.

 __We 're a small group of extremely driven, passionate game developers that
like to have fun while we work.

 __We 're a small, humble studio with plans for world domination, our game EFG
has XYZ growth metric and we need you to help us scale to the next level. We
expect you to grow into a team lead and manage ABC aspects of our business.

 __We 're building the next generation gaming platform that is exciting
because of XYZ.

 __We 're industry veterans from XYZ famous companies building games focused
on X because of ABC compelling reasons.

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atsaloli
I've hired a brilliant young man at low pay (but appropriate for entry-level).
32 hour work week, flexible schedule (he starts at one p.m.), plus profit
sharing on side projects and I'm mentoring him.

He spent the first two months studying, at my expense, to qualify as a novice
sysadmin and gain a contract at my client.

This arrangement is working for us both. He's making more than ever before.

He's asked me to 2x his rate on the next contract.

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paulcole
>He's asked me to 2x his rate on the next contract.

I don't understand your implication? Is this a good or bad thing?

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atsaloli
I wasn't implying anything, just sharing my experience. He's doing valuable
work. I can definitely get him a higher rate now that he has a year of
experience. Not sure I can double it. I'll try!

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ddorian43
Hire (out of country) remotely. For some it's a very good wage (it was once
for me too).

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bassmaster
I had considered that but it's a bit of a headache for a FTE at our size.
Might be worth looking again if all else fails though.

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atsaloli
Other possible benefits are flexibility in schedule and profit sharing.

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hijinks
If you want a real perk due like 20 days of mandatory vacation.

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bassmaster
Not sure what you mean? There'd be 40 days of paid vacation without any
onerous conditions other than perhaps taking day 1-40 off.

