

Ask HN: 'Enterprise' hater - alifaziz

Define and share what is 'enterprise application' in your words.<p>Rules:
Simple.
No marketing terms.
======
DrJokepu
I like Steve Jobs' definition: With enterprise software, the people who are
making the purchase decision / order (whether it's in-house or externally
developed) are typically not the people who're going to use the software.
There are exceptions, of course.

~~~
acon
I like this definition. It is short and zesty and feels true. However I don't
think it is a sufficient condition for something to be enterprise software.
Some tools for software developers or other highly skilled employees are too
expensive to be bought by the employees themselves, but I still don't consider
it enterprise software.

I think for it to be real enterprise software it must also be dictated from
the powers that be that the minions should use it, wether they like it or not.

------
umjames
\- Costs 5 or 6 figures

\- Has often unnecessary hardware and software requirements to reduce sticker
shock. For example, requires Solaris on SPARC and the database must be Oracle
or MS SQL Server when it's just a glorified CRUD web app.

\- Is buzzword-compliant (extra points for more esoteric buzzwords (like
JSR-170 compliant)).

\- Is often written in Java to allow your typical IT drone to write the
necessary glue to integrate it with other enterprise software.

\- Is excessively complex at all levels (UI/UX, configuration, extension).

\- Is poorly documented due in part to the excessive complexity and more in
part to the fat support contracts the vendors rely on.

\- Makes your IT boss happy, because it continually uses up their yearly
budget allotment, generates a lifetime of status meetings, and gives more of
their subordinates something to do.

\- Makes you, the IT worker, miserable because you have to continually fight
it in order to keep it working.

\- Makes you, the office worker, miserable because you have to continually
fight it just to get anything done.

------
harscoat
I worked 5y at an Enterprise Search vendor. For us there, Enterprise
application was:

* to be used "within" a large org or corporations (vs web facing apps)

* which deployment/usage is through the overall organization (not just departmental (=specialized app) this is why often the 2 types of license sold were "corporate or Enterprise license" with 1 important parameter: the number of employees (per seats) of the corp

* Most of the time, installed within the firewall on the corps own servers (vs cloud)

* if modern architecture the app to be deployed globally should have "connectors"/connectivity so that it can communicate with other pre existing systems

* very often deployed by system integrators or at 3 to 4 x the price by the engineers of the Enterprise App vendor

------
towndrunk
An internal piece of software built by so many people that no one can agree on
a feature set. Usually way over engineered using the latest technology buzz to
enhance developers resumes.

------
d4rt
An application is a software product which fulfills a useful purpose
(performing a task, storing data, etc.)

An enterprise application is an application which is suitable for use in a
wide variety of environments seen in companies. (for example, as a point of
difference, an enterprise application might support a wider variety of
platforms or data, or at greater scale than a non-enterprise application)

~~~
alifaziz
Thanks d4rt.

What about collection of different applications which is inter-dependent with
each other. Each application must be communicable and extensible with less
pain. That's what in my mind for enterprise right now..

~~~
d4rt
Enterprise extensibility and inter-operativity or inter-dependency is
extremely complex to get right.

Multiple standards exist for just about anything, and most implementations of
something are broken in one way or another. I've seen obvious and subtle
breakage in things that ought to be simple: * timestamps (not unambigious, not
including timezone data) * mac addresses (within SNMP, in a variety of formats
in different places on the same kit) * integration with LDAP (group membership
only looking at primary membership) * etc.

We live in hope. Postel's Law applies.

------
fs111
"One size fits no-one" software

~~~
CyberFonic
Sold by people who promise everything and deliver very little after a lot of
high priced consultants customise it to what they think your requirements
should be. Costs a fortune to buy and several more in 'maintenance' fees. New,
incompatible version, is released a month after you go live.

~~~
nailer
* Has known bugs that will not be resolved until the newer version is purchased.

* Is developed and delivered in big-bang style rather than incrementally.

* End users and support staff are not involved in purchase or evaluation.

* Primarily sold by offering decision makers (people with budget) tickets to the British Open, Premier League football, great meals, etc.

------
ratsbane
A software system intended to store and manage a large portion of the data
created and used by the members of an organization.

Most of the comments I see here so far are funny, pejorative, and spot-on
accurate but the original post asked for a definition.

\- a software system: an enterprise application is like a library (as in
books) except that instead of books it stores smaller pieces of information -
employee names, timecards, purchase orders, etc.

\- intended to: because they don't always actually do that

\- store and manage: not just store but make provisions for users to add to
and look up the data stored there.

\- a large portion: because a single spreadsheet shouldn't count. Postings on
TheDailyWTF notwithstanding.

\- by the members: enterprise apps may involve public-facing information
services but if that's all they do then they don't count as enterprise

\- of a an organization: not just businesses but schools, governments, and any
other groups with a defined membership and purpose.

------
Hoff
An environment that combines the most intractable features of the La Brea tar
pits and an industrial-scale cash furnace, with attendant performance and
maintenance issues, dependencies on custom kudzu code, and all of which is in
aggregate entirely critical to on-going business operations.

If you can afford to rip it all out and replace it - without seriously risking
blowing up your business, your entire revenue stream, or risking having to
issue a mea culpa to a legal entity, or having to jack-hammer congealed
product out of your mongo-million dollar manufacturing line - then it's not
Enterprise code.

And yes, stuff that might not be traditionally thought of as an enterprise
installation can fit this definition. The large-scale deployments of Microsoft
Windows and Microsoft Exchange and SitePoint can fit this definition, as can
your own large-scale deployment of your own customized software platform, as
can anything to do with financial verifications or controlled substances, too.

------
exline
A large application trying to do many things at once. Has a very long sales
cycle and is expensive. It requires sales and marketing effort teams to get
sales. Support services offered because it is a pain to install and/or run.

------
AmberShah
Total cost > $500K

A site license is > 500 seats

Long, intensive sales cycles

Heavy support and uptime requirements

And I'm not against it or anything. It can be more work than small or med
businesses but it's also significantly more money. In fact, the amount of
money is probably inordinately more. So you can actually become more
financially successful doing enterprise software.

------
itgoon
This is the version of the software with one or two additional features, and
one or two additional zeros on the license cost.

------
redorb
I am building one right now ~ its a system to track piece pay for factory
employees...

it takes all parts, processes and prices for those processes and generates
reports.

Its enterprise to me because it could be valuable to many other companies.

------
macros
My friend Kragen wrote a good post about enterprise software:

[http://www.mail-archive.com/kragen-
tol@canonical.org/msg0010...](http://www.mail-archive.com/kragen-
tol@canonical.org/msg00109.html)

------
rayvega
Software that aims to reduce the costs for a business and does not aim to
increase its revenue.

------
noodle
an application that is large, redundant, complex, and build to do lots of
different things; costs a lot of money/resources; and is subsequently
configured and customized down to fit the needs of the customer.

------
pasbesoin
I'll add that selection is often the result of a top-down decision, with an
attendant disconnect between the needs and interests at the top as compared to
those in the trenches. The greater the separation of those mindsets, the worse
the result, speaking generally.

