

Ask San Franciscans: Is it worth taking a 2 week holiday to SF? - newsisan

Sorry for the brief title.<p>I live in Australia and am considering Uni in the SF region.<p>Currently trying to decide if it is worth taking a 2 week trip to SF to help my decisions regarding university.<p>If I go, what should I do?
Can I get a feel for Unis like UC Berkeley and Stanford?
Can I get a feel for the 'startup culture' and maybe even check out a startup?
Can I get a feel for living in the city?<p>Moving here for 4 years is a pretty large commitment, and I would love any opinions you can offer.
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dotBen
Nothing to do with startups, I think spending _some time_ visiting campus
before you apply is a wise idea. Like you said, it's 4 years you'll be here.

Just remember that neither Berkeley or Stanford are in San Francisco and if
you attend either it is unlikely you would be living in San Francisco during
your studies.

I'm assuming, therefore, you meant the SF Bay Area in which case definitely
come and spend time in the East Bay (for Berkeley) and Palo Alto region (for
Stanford).

The East Bay is known to be 'gritty' in (most) places and so if you've not
lived in an inner-city area with social problems then its worth finding out if
it is for you. Berkeley itself doesn't have quite those problems but many
people who study there don't necessarily live in Berkeley itself.

Stanford does have a great campus, but for me the wider area is incredibly
boring. If you just want to study for 4 years it's ideal, but if you see
university life as a rite of passage as much as an academic experience you'll
find yourself spending a lot of time in SF.

I should say, I'm envious _(in a positive, good way)_ you are in a position
academically and financially to be able to apply to either - I would have
loved the opportunity to go but sadly never made it to university, let alone
either of these fine institutions.

~~~
gojomo
All good info, except I think the "(most) places" overstates how "gritty" the
East Bay is. There are more poor neighborhoods than on the peninsula and
valley, yes, but also plenty of everything else as well – it's expansive and
diverse in every dimension.

(The areas a Berkeley student is likely to live are more urban/dense than many
a suburban – or Australian – newcomer might be familiar with, but still far
from 'inner-city' conditions. The prevalence of panhandlers/streetdwellers is
likely to be the most notable 'grittiness', in SF/Berkeley/Oakland, for people
who haven't seen it before.)

~~~
dotBen
North of San Jose, its only East Palo Alto that comes to mind as an area of
crime/danger/social issue - and frankly EPA has been massively cleaned up and
gentrified since Ikea was built.

Oakland remains a dangerous city, with large 'no go' areas after dark (and
even some during the day). Yes there are some nice parts, Piedmont is very
trendy and Berkeley is pretty mellow. But you can't deny there remains some
very serious issues in large parts of the East Bay.

~~~
gojomo
...but still not "most" places in the East Bay. (And though it may be a
statistical anomaly, for homicides in 2011 so far SF is running even with
Oakland, and San Jose almost as many.)

 _Edit:_ Corrected; at first I wrote that SF and SJ each had more than
Oakland, but the actual numbers seem to be SF-11, O-11, SJ-10... if the rate
continues, each will have a much worse year than last year.

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gsivil
I have visited SF only for a bit and I had the chance to visit Berkeley and
Stanford. I really liked the city a lot and I want to give you my two cents
about these two Universities. If you get accepted by these Universities (and
let's say you do not have any offers from better places on the East side) do
not hesitate in accepting it even for a second. Stanford stands out not only
as academic institution in terms of ranking but as a feeling in the campus.
But Berkeley has the advantage of being so close to SF.

All the best for your choice and your trip

~~~
bugsy
If he's doing engineering there's not much on the east coast other than MIT.
Stanford, CalTech and MIT are the three on the top and there is a big gap
before the next one down.

Of these three, Stanford is the only one where a normal social life is
possible, assuming that's desirable.

~~~
gsivil
I do not know what he is about to study but for example in CS there are very
very good places on the east besides MIT.

[http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-gradu...](http://grad-
schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-computer-
science-schools/rankings)

The OP does not want to get details info in rankings and at such a top level I
think being in Berkeley or Stanford or Cornell or Princeton is not so
different.

~~~
bugsy
Cornell and Princeton have very poor engineering schools compared to Stanford.
Princeton's physics and sciences are great, but not engineering is not
comparable at all.

~~~
_delirium
From the perspective of CS academia, I don't think of Stanford and Cornell as
having particularly noticeable prestige differences. Stanford is considerably
larger, so is better-known in more areas, while Cornell specializes in a few,
with a math-heavy, formal focus. Stanford's business/VC connections are
definitely better known, though.

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kmiyer
Deciding whether it's a good idea to visit depends heavily on your financial /
visa situation. If it's feasible, then it's a great idea! I came to Berkeley
as an international student without having the opportunity to visit and things
turned out just fine, but in retrospect I'd have loved the opportunity to get
to know the area beforehand.

As others have said, most students at either Berkeley or Stanford don't live
in SF. Staying there makes sense as a tourist though, both are easily
accessible through day trips and you get to enjoy SF.

If you do visit Berkeley, a great way to get a feel for it is to sit in on
classes. You can see this semester's CS classes here
<http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Scheduling/CS/schedule.html>. If you talk to the
EECS department before hand they'll be glad to organize a mini-tour for you
where can chat with a current student. If that doesn't work out, there are
enough Cal students (like myself) frequenting Hacker News who'll be glad to
show you around.

Edited to add: [http://www.quora.com/Which-place-should-avid-technophile-
per...](http://www.quora.com/Which-place-should-avid-technophile-person-visit-
for-his-first-trip-to-San-Francisco-and-Silicon-valley-in-March-2011/) would
probably be of interest to you.

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drallison
Visit the Universities and walk around campus. If you know what you will be
studying, go visit with some of the faculty. People are generally friendly and
open. Both UC and Stanford have open lectures, for example, the Stanford EE
Computer Systems Colloquium, <http://ee380.stanford.edu>. Check out the Hacker
Dojo in Mountain View and Noisebridge in San Francisco. Take a look at
<http://www.dorkbot.org/dorkbotsf/> for an ongoing program of people doing
strange things with electricity.

There are lots and lots of things to do in the Bay Area. There's the wine
country to the north, Big Sur, Monterey, and Carmel to the south. Don't miss
the Exploratorium and the Computer History Museum. One of my favorites is the
SF Waterfront. If you have an iPhone, there is an App for that:
[http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/san-fran-
waterfront/id4075675...](http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/san-fran-
waterfront/id407567581?mt=8) that will guide your tour.

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bugsy
I'll speak from the perspective of an occasional visitor there with relatives
and friends who live there.

Yes, it's a great city, the absolute best one of its size in the US. One of
the few with good public transportation. There are fantastic places to go
nearby like the Redwoods to the north and vineyards to the east.

Watch out though, if looking to party, most parts of the city has no nightlife
except on weekends.

If you are doing engineering and can get into Stanford you should go there
rather than Berkeley.

There are hostels that run $20 a night or less if you want to go on the cheap.
Or you can couch surf if you have friends there already. Or since you are
Australian you can probably find a girlfriend on okcupid to move in with for 2
weeks, they like the accent and most unattached men are gay, but it might be
more trouble than it's worth.

Then again, since you are considering paying out of state tuition at a couple
very expensive colleges, you must be fabulously wealthy and can just check
into a suite at The Palace or Hotel Palomar.

~~~
gojomo
Upvoted for the suggestion of OKCupid as a short-term housing solution, I'd
never heard that before and it made me chuckle. For more formal but still
person-to-person accomodations, try AirBNB or Craigslist. :)

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bartonfink
From Australia? Absolutely it's worth an extended visit, although 2 weeks is a
long time. If you stay busy, you could probably explore the Bay area
thoroughly in just one week. If you want to stay on the Pacific coast, I'd
probably check out Seattle for another week just so you get the most bang for
your visit.

~~~
bugsy
If you do this, take the Coast Starlight train from SF and stop in Portland on
the way.

~~~
AndrewO
Portland's one of my favorite cities in the country (and I'm a lifelong East
Coaster) and it's definitely worth a visit.

That said, if Stanford and Berkeley are in the mix, I don't know if any
schools in Portland can quite compete.

~~~
bugsy
Oh sorry, to clarify, I didn't mean stop to look at schools, I meant if you
are headed to Seattle for whatever (not sure what there is to do in Seattle, I
lived there and don't really think of it as a tourist destination of any kind,
but maybe Vancouver?), definitely take the train since it's a fun train (even
though it will leave 6 hrs after it is scheduled to leave) and then might as
well do a stop in Portland on the way. Just to hang out and check things out
for a couple days since there's lost of fun things going on and interesting
people. Not to look at schools.

~~~
AndrewO
You know, I reread what I wrote and it does sound like I was calling you out.
Sorry about that. Let's just say Portland's awesome and if he gets a chance he
should go. :)

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mc32
Yeah, I think if you're going to scout the city and want to get a feel for
what it would be like to live in SF (rather than vicinity, which is completely
different) you should want to spend at least two weeks in SF.

I would say stay at an AirBnB for lodging. I think that will give you a better
window into what daily life might look like for you. A hotel is going to be
disengaged.

"Silicon Valley" kind of has as its epicenter in Palo-Alto. However, that
really is a rough geographic description. Most mature companies are HQd in SF
or San Jose (those are the normal boundaries). SF has companies and startups,
tho most could be considered companies which use web-technologies to provide
services (AirBnB, Yelp, Craigslist) whereas peninsula companies might fit more
the web-infrastructure and platformy (Google, VMware, Verisign, FB) side of
things. Mountain View-Santa Clara-San Jose is more Hardware (Intel, Cisco,
IBM). That's overly simplified. It's just to give you some rough bearing.

UC Berkeley is 30 mins away via Rapid Trainsit (Bart), Stanford U is about 1hr
from SF on Commuter Rail (CalTrain)

SF is a bit expensive to live in, as a student with little income. Your
situation might be different. Many people share rent or the sort, to make
things more affordable, if they do want to remain in SF. However, that
introduces the vagaries that come with having roommates.

You can look for upcoming events you might want to check out here
<http://sf.funcheap.com/events/san-francisco/>

Lodgning at: airbnb.com

look at rent info: <http://hotpads.com/> also
<http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/hhh/>

Proto- Startup Culture, maybe a quick stop at Hacker Dojo?
<http://wiki.hackerdojo.com/w/page/25437/FrontPage> (It's in the middle of a
middle-aged non-descript office park, but it's reachable via Caltrain Mountain
View Station ~10 min walk)

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marshray
Speaking as one who lived in hip college towns for years and didn't attend. At
the end of your stay, nothing about the town will be as memorable as the
school itself (unless you get arrested or something).

Unless you have a spouse who won't be in the same univ, I'd suggest ignoring
the city entirely. Plan to live (i.e., spend the entirety of your productive
life) in the school. Avoid having a car if at all possible.

Of course there's a crapton of stuff to do in the area, it's a world-renowned
city. But save it for when relatives come to visit!

~~~
mattdeboard
I'm sorry, what? Have you ever BEEN to San Francisco? I lived there for 2.5
years. It's unforgettable, and I miss it every day.

~~~
marshray
Been in the area once. Spent most of my time at the awesomest bookstore in the
world on the Stanford campus.

~~~
cema
The "area" of San Francisco is nothing like the city of San Francisco.

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mtviewdave
Whether or not a trip to the SF Bay Area would be helpful or you is hard to
say. But two weeks strikes me as a very long time just for the Bay Area. A day
at Berkeley, a day at Stanford, a day or two hanging out at some startups,
maybe going to a meetup or two. A week strikes me as plenty.

If you want to stay more than a week (and having done SFO<->SYD myself, I can
understand if you would), you should think about visiting other cities.

If you're staying in San Francisco, you can get to either school, or anywhere
in San Francisco proper, without a car. But a car starts to become necessary
for anything beyond that. Note that many car rental companies won't rent to
someone younger than 25, and those that do, will generally charge extra. And I
suspect a lack of an American driver's license would further restrict your
options.

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hsmyers
It has been too many years since I spent careful time (on foot with backpack
in the late 60's) in SF so I can only relate my experience in Berkeley. First
an admission--- I am invariably biased in or out of favor of a city based on
it's bookstores. Berkeley has so many good ones that there is no real
competition in the Bay area. Two prime examples and worth at least a couple of
days attention each are Moe's Books and Cody's Books. You would wind up with
an excellent education just by attending both even if you skipped all of your
classes at Berkeley. As for the startup culture, perhaps someone else with
hands on knowledge will chime in here...

~~~
beoba
FYI Cody's is closed:
<https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Codys_Books>

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AndrewO
There's plenty to see in the Bay Area, but if you need to get out, there's a
lot of natural beauty elsewhere. When I visited, I rented a car and drove down
the Pacific Coast Highway[1] to Big Sur and it was absolutely amazing.
Dramatic views of the coast, beautiful canyons... Loved it. I definitely came
away with a case of coastline envy (although I don't know how it compares with
Australia).

You can get there and back in a day if you get an early start (or you can
overnight).

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Coast_Highway_(Californ...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Coast_Highway_\(California\))

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vnchr
With public transportation, I've been able to cover most of the valley and
downtown SF in a few days. It's a great place to make the most from a short
visit.

Budget at least 2 days for each university. Stanford is very walkable. I've
covered the whole thing in under a day--it's my favorite part of my visits.
You'll want more time to talk to students, learn about its academics....

And just head to an entreprneurial Meetup that's convenient. If you ask enough
people, someone who works for a startup will be willing to bring you in for a
day.

Have fun! As a non-San Franciscan, it's my favorite place to visit alone and
explore.

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tjsnyder
The best thing you will get are the friendships and connections in the startup
world. If you want to be in a startup, your best opportunities will come from
bring in sf.

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dreur
Thanks for asking since I am also thinking about taking two weeks there in
May. But not for the same reasons. I am starting my professional career in May
just finished a CS degree at the U of Sherbrooke (Quebec).

I would like to visit the city and do some networking there too. Maybe try
some surfing.

Any ideas how and where to start ?

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xargs38
I'm orig from LA, lived in Vienna for a few years, then moved to the bay area
for the past 10yrs. You'll feel at home and like it just fine, it's a no
brainier IMO.

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georgieporgie
Definitely consider couch surfing during your visit, as it will give you an
instant connection to the area and local advice.

SF itself is heavily populated by hipsters, which is either your thing or very
irritating. SF is foggier and cooler than the surrounding areas, particularly
in the summer months.

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zmanian
The San Francisco area has

