
The Hacker's Diet:  Losing weight the hacker way - jjguy
http://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/www/hackdiet.html
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iuguy
I followed this Diet back in 2003 and lost 40 Kilos (about 88 pounds) over 6
months, most of them in the first 3. The key things for me were:

Giving up alcohol for two months Not eating much at all Doing the fitness
regime to boost metabolic rate

By the time I stopped I was on level 45 of the ladder, had never felt fitter
in my life and wasn't ripped per se but was certainly toned.

Since then my weight has gone back up largely due to work and old habits
coming back - I've taken up cycling which is definitely having a positive
effect, but I'm not sure it'll be as effective without consideration to other
areas (crap food, booze etc.)

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jjguy
Four years after reading this the first time, I still remind myself of one
insight: engineer vs. managers and "fixing problems" vs. "managing problems".

You can find this discussion under the heading "Problems: managing, fixing,
and solving" here <http://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/e4/eatwatch.html>

It's pretty brilliant. Even when my (manager) head knows I should be just
managing problems, my (engineering) heart really, really wants to just fix
them.

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fdkz
Has anyone tried the Shangri-La Diet? Seems too simple not to try it. From
wikipedia:

"The diet itself consists of taking 100–400 calories in the form of extra-
light (not extra-virgin) olive oil or sugar water per day, either all at once
or spanned throughout the day. This must be consumed in a flavorless window,
which is at least one hour after flavors have been consumed, and at least one
hour before flavors will be consumed.[4] The consumption of these flavorless
calories supposedly lowers the set point, and therefore, lowers weight."

I just mention this because I've read the authors paper "Self-experimentation
as a source of new ideas: Ten examples about sleep, mood, health, and weight"
and it seemed really interesting. Available here:

<http://sethroberts.net/science/>

~~~
chiffonade
> Has anyone tried the Shangri-La Diet

No, but I've tried the Get Off Your Ass and Don't Eat More Than 2000 Calories
Per Day diet, and it works really well.

~~~
randallsquared
And by 2000, I presume you mean 1500 or less. Most people's bodies can
probably easily adjust to 2000 calories at something near their current
weight. In fact, for most people who want to lose weight, it would probably be
easier just to keep calories/day to "about 1000" rather than trying to hit a
precise target like 1850 or whatever their height and build should require.

~~~
chiffonade
No, those numbers are way off. If you eat 1000 calories a day and are male,
you will almost definitely be in poorer health. You will lose muscle and gain
fat %, and while you may be "lighter", you will almost definitely be fatter.

Use fitday.com or something to ACTUALLY TRACK (yes, actually, as in EVERY DAY)
the calories you eat. You can't "guess" something like this. Furthermore,
google for 'daily caloric expenditure calculator' and find out exactly how
much someone of your height and build is burning, and eat accordingly.

Stop guessing! It obviously doesn't work.

~~~
randallsquared
Of _course_ you'll be in poorer health. You're losing weight, and if you keep
it up you'll eventually starve. The process of "losing weight" has to be
temporary. However, if you could determine the calorie count that would keep
you stable at your desired weight, you will never be able to reach that weight
on that calorie count (all else equal: no extra exercise, etc), because your
body will lower metabolism enough that you'll level off above that.

I have lost weight in a sustained fashion to accomplish a goal just once in my
life so far (~310 to 187 at my lowest; let's agree that I wasn't fatter at
187, eh?), and it would have taken years to drop it had I just started eating
2000 kcal a day. Even 2500 kcal is probably enough to _maintain_ 300 lbs if
you don't exercise and don't actively try to build muscle.

~~~
chiffonade
> if you don't exercise and don't actively try to build muscle.

Which is why I said "Get Off Your Ass".

~~~
randallsquared
I parsed that as a modifier to the bit that followed, rather than a separate
prescription. :)

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blhack
I'm on this "diet" and have lost about 45 pounds so far.

Getting skinny always seemed like black voodoo or something. Looking at it the
way I would look at hacking together a system made it really, really, really
easy.

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gstar
The hacker's diet is a perfect example of a watched metric improving just by
being watched.

When I needed to lose weight recently, I watched what I eat (in a google docs
spreadsheet) and weighed myself every day, and lost 10kg in about 10 weeks.

~~~
Oxryly
Can you see yourself doing that for the next 30-40+ years?

~~~
gstar
No, but the principle of the hackers diet is to keep doing it.

I'm hoping that something I read recently about people likely having two
different weight equilibriums (can't find a link) holds true.

~~~
Oxryly
Your weight equilibrium is definitely not fixed. It depends almost entirely on
your hormone levels. If they are brought in to balance, your weight
equilibrium will fall somewhere in a healthy range of 14%-20%. The good thing
is it will stay that way. You'll have to keep your blood sugar and other
things like cortisol under control, but you won't have to count calories.

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jodrellblank
The link is interesting - it's a diet by the guy who founded AutoDesk
(AutoCAD), and has some good discussion on plotting trends of weightloss,
taking into account large noisy fluctuations in water weight.

There's an unofficial site you can join and plug data into to get those graphs
here: <http://physicsdiet.com/>

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Oxryly
He's right about the fixing versus managing. Although for sanity's sake you
really should think of it as permanent lifestyle changes, not "management."
And also you should try to optimize for overall health with your lifestyle
changes, not weight loss (which comes with improved health anyway).

One place this approach falls down is that it doesn't distinguish the effects
of various types of calories. Just pursuing "variety" isn't going to cut it.
You can eat a ton of fiber (with high caloric content) but you'll actually
absorb very little of it. If you eat a ton of sugar you'll crash your
metabolism, your insulin will skyrocket, and you'll put on pounds even if you
started out burning more than you consume (plus you may induce diabetes).

Really, a hacker approach will acknowledge that what you're really trying to
reduce is fat, not weight alone (is anyone here trying to lose muscle?) And
calories input do _not_ go directly to fat. There is a sophisticated set of
hormone feedback systems that govern whether fat is stored or broken down for
energy, and until you hack your hormone system you may well be chasing your
tail.

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harpastum
The simple formula of 'Calories in - calories out = change in weight' has
always been interesting to me. More recently i've been wondering if there is
some way to measure calories burned accurately using some sort of skin-contact
device. I've seen the "bodybugg",[1] but I have trouble believing a few
sensors and a microcontroller is worth $250+.

Anyone have any experience with this sort of electronics? The "bodybugg"
website claims that it does its measurements with an accelerometer, a 'heat
flux sensor', a temperature sensor, and a sensor that measures galvanic skin
response.

The more I look around, the more this looks like a market ripe for a quality
start-up.

[1] <http://www.bodybugg.com/science_behind_bodybugg.php>

~~~
gaius
Suunto T6 owns this market. To use it right, tho', you need to have a VO2max
test done.

Also, it's not as simple as that. You might think "I'm eating less so my body
must burn fat" but your body is thinking "shit, I'm starving, better conserve
energy" and turns down your metabolism, prioritizes fat storage, etc. A whole
bunch of survival mechanisms kick in. Cutting more than 500 calories/day
doesn't lead to sustainable results. There's no quick fix.

~~~
vlisivka
You right. So you do not need to eat less. You need to eat less calories,
right? Eat meat instead of burger - you will be satiated for much longer time
with much less calories. Also you need to eat vitamins - they will help
organism to convert fat into energy when necessary and you will be less hungry
in average.

~~~
chiffonade
> Also you need to eat vitamins

Since when did "vitamins" replace "fruit and vegetables"?

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vlisivka
While on diet, you need more vitamins than usual.

Fruits and vegetables has calories too. Look at tables:
<http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/calories.html>

1 apple is about 200g (five apples per 1kg), thus it is equivalent to 2
tablespoons of sugar.

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macco
This Diet is way to complicated. A better way is simply:

* Don't drink alcohol. Alcohol has calories like fat. * Don't drink stuff with calories. The best is plain water * Cut back on carbs. Don't eat outside. Most food you buy is not suited for dieting * Eat your veggies. Eat at minimum one pound per day. It is a must. It is healthy and fights your hunger. * After you are down to the desired weight, don't get back to normal. Still eat your veggies and you are fine.

~~~
Oxryly
The diet isn't really too complicated, it just puts the emphasis in the wrong
areas. What you eat is actually slightly more important that how much you eat.

Your recommendations are a good start, but you should add that 50-70% of each
meal should be protein. Protein is the fuel for your metabolic fire (long
term), and will cause your calorie burning to outrun your caloric intake in
general terms.

Part of why the veggies are such a good idea is that they can be mostly fiber,
which are calories that are not absorbed at all, but help you absorb the
other, more important nutrients (protein, minerals, vitamins).

And to maintain this you must view it as a lifestyle and the goal is overall
health, not a certain weight. The right weight will happen as the result of
being healthy.

~~~
xiaoma
That kind of protein intake is absolutely nuts.

On average, the Japanese get over 50% of their calories just from _rice_ and
over 80% from carbohydrates. They also have the longest lifespans in the world
and far lower obesity and heart disease rates than similarly developed places.

~~~
Oxryly
You're probably talking about the Okinawa Diet
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okinawa_diet>). It contains 25% of the average
Japanese intake of sugar and 75% of the average Japanese intake of grains in
general. It is very low calorie.

To get the long lifespan, low obesity, and low heart disease of an Okinawan
you'd have to truly live like an Okinawan... eating exactly the kinds of foods
they eat and having little stress, similar sleep habits, and similar genetic
dispositions. People have not been successful in replicating the approach
elsewhere.

The approach I described is the way to eat to stoke your metabolism and keep
your blood sugar low. It's good for fat loss, muscle building, high energy
levels, and general good health. There's more to it than I described (such as
eating 5 or more times a day), but those are the basics.

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orestis82
I followed this diet 3 years ago and it did have great results. I think that
the exercise had the biggest effect on me, as I was completely flabby. I'm
planning on starting again as I have reverted to my old chubby self the past
couple of years.

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shard
I think he's optimizing the wrong parameter. What's the ultimate point of
hacking weight? For me, it's having good health. Health is not just about
weight, health is composed of quantity and quality of food, frequent aerobic
and anaerobic exercise, and adequate sleep. Hacking the diet is necessary but
insufficient without the other two parts.

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cpr
The main beef I have with his "hack your weight" approach is that he's
strictly counting calories, and not the kind of calories.

Yes, it'll "work," but if you use McDonald's calories instead of Trader Joe's
calories (you get the general idea), your body will be much worse off with the
junk food, even if your weight is down.

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smokey_the_bear
I'd like to try this. It seems like he only has spreadsheets available for
Excel though. Anyone tried to make something similar for gnumeric or maybe
google spreadsheets?

~~~
joshstaiger
He also has a webapp that does the same thing:

<https://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/HackDiet>

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chiffonade
I stopped drinking a 6 weeks ago and I've lost 15 pounds.

You might be surprised how much alcohol (not just the calories) is
contributing to your fat ass.

~~~
philjr
This is a lifestyle thing. It's not just alcohol, but yeh, out partying and
drinking leads to 2am takeaway, hangover foods and the calories in and of
itself in alcohol are bad.

Like everything, you will find people who tell you "the best way to lose
weight is X" ... employ a multi-faceted approach and you'll get the best
results. There is no silver bullet. Some people will not stop snacking, some
people will not stop eating greasy takeaways and some people will not stop
driving 3 blocks instead of just walking. Try "Being healthy" and if you find
it difficult to do everything at once, take baby steps. Eat healthy food on
Tuesdays and Thursdays only, building up one day at a time every two weeks.
Sometimes it can take a while to get used to not being full of MSG-ridden
salty foods and stuff like removing caffeine from your diet can be difficut.
Getting used to the taste of wholegrain this and low fat that takes a while.
It's better introduced slowly... you'll find it more difficult to keep to some
sort of strict that requires that you eat stuff that you don't like 3 times a
day.

It is important to do as much as you can to increase your metabolism. This
means not being sedentary! Get out, go for walks, exercise, go for a jog.
Whatever. Measure, rinse, repeat.

Take a sensible approach to changing your lifestyle and it can definitely come
about. Fad diets, exercise machines, stomach crunchers etc. are useless
without you recognising that you want to be healthy. It's not just about
losing weight and remember that! There are people of average weight living
extremely unhealthy lifestyles who will die younger too.

~~~
chiffonade
> This is a lifestyle thing

"Losing weight" is a lifestyle thing... people with healthy lifestyles aren't
fat, no matter what. I believe this is one of those rules to which there
aren't any exceptions.

