
The iPad Mini and the cost of Retina - googletron
http://www.marco.org/2012/11/12/ipad-mini-cost-of-retina
======
ekianjo
Wow, that was a _very_ convoluted article to say something utterly simple that
can be summarized in one sentence: "ipad mini does not have a Retina screen
because of GPU and battery restrictions". Marco really knows how to fill pages
with Nothing.

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jeswin
I am going to be that guy. The article may be well written, yet a complete
waste of my time. It presents no insights, and most of us on HN will learn
absolutely nothing from it. HN discussions shouldn't be the same as those on
Engadget and Techcrunch.

Maybe there should be a checkbox which says "Yes, I think this is interesting
for _hackers_."

~~~
cwilson
I hate to burst your bubble, but "Hacker News" as the title of this community
shouldn't be taken literally anymore (this has been the case for a long time
now). PG himself often talks about how startups no longer need to launch on
other tech blogs, because HN is a force of its own (and in many cases provides
much better conversion rates during launches, assuming your target audience
reads this site).

This community is comprised of founders (who happen to play other roles than
just "hacker"), designers, developers, marketers, bloggers, risk-takers, and
generally anyone who likes the idea of creating something from nothing in the
tech industry. This includes reading about and discussing industry news,
trends, and cult-like followings (Apple).

Regardless of the fact that this community was created with a focus on hackers
is now irrelevant, it's become the beast that it now is.

~~~
jeswin
I come to HN because I want to hear from programmers like you, many who are
involved with startups or other interesting projects. Things that worked for
you, things that went wrong.

I agree with what you said though, this is what it is now.

------
andrewfelix
_"Its battery life, portability, or performance would suffer significantly.
(Probably all three.)"_

The existence of the Nexus 7 would seem to nullify the crux of Marco's
argument. The Nexus 7 has a 216ppi display, 10 hour battery life and by most
accounts it performs excellently.

~~~
cubicle67
Apple's hands are tied by decisions made long ago re display layout. Because
elements are positioned absolutely and not via a layout manager, they can't go
with an intemdiate resolution - they're tied to either 1024x768 or 2x that.

~~~
cma
Doubtful: the new iPhone shows they are willing to throw that out the window.

~~~
seabee
If you notice carefully the new iPhone is not a resolution change but a size
change; they can letterbox old apps because the dimensions and resolution is
identical to old iPhones that way.

There is no comparable solution if you simply increase the PPI of the iPad
Mini by 50%. It's either 1x pixels or 4x pixels, there is no middle ground.

------
chromejs10
Honestly I think Apple kind of gypped people by not putting in the retina
display. The competitors in the 7" tablet market have the retina displays
already, and for cheaper. They seem to be banking off the idea that they sell
enough iOS devices that people will buy the mini no matter what. What sucks is
you know the next update (which based on their new release schedules probably
isn't that far away) will sport the retina as the big new feature without many
other changes.

This is all coming from a huge Apple person. A tad disappointing.

~~~
comex
The competitors have higher resolution displays than the iPad mini, but
probably not what Apple would call "retina" - the Nexus 7 has 216 ppi, which
is less than the iPad's 264 ppi, and significantly less than the 326 ppi that
a pixel-doubled iPad mini would end up with - which, considering the niceness
of the iPhone at the same DPI, is probably worth it.

~~~
bitcartel
Got to hand it to Apple's marketing team. This HTC phone has a 1080 display
with 440 ppi, but customers will still be asking if the phone is "Retina".

[http://androidcommunity.com/htc-j-butterfly-
features-a-5-inc...](http://androidcommunity.com/htc-j-butterfly-
features-a-5-inch-1080p-screen-20121017/)

~~~
supercoder
What's the point ? After about 300 PPI you're not going to tell any
difference. Just puts a strain on the battery, GPU, and CPU. Looks great on
the spec sheet, but then I guess that is the primary point rather than how it
actually performs.

------
bitcartel
"Apple didn’t make an arbitrary decision to withhold Retina on the Mini to
save money, upsell more buyers to the iPad 4, or “force” the first generation
of iPad Mini owners to upgrade next year. They chose not to ship a Retina iPad
Mini because it would be significantly worse than the previous iPads in very
important factors."

Er, Apple Maps?

~~~
supercoder
Er, Maps is irrelevant to this point.

~~~
CamperBob2
No, it's a perfectly valid example of a case where Apple shipped something
that was worse than what it had been shipping.

~~~
DeepDuh
Also, it's a good example of how Apple's management is still able to recognize
mistakes and try new ways, even if that means slaughtering an employee who
significantly contributed to their top position in the market (Forstall).

Microsoft's fallout with Sinofsky is an interesting parallel to say the least.

------
josteink
Predictable Marco predictably defending whatever Apple has decided to do for
whatever "reasonable" reasons he can conjur.

Also: predictably trollbait.

------
chj
I would rather they keep reducing the price and weight. Retina? 163ppi is
already pretty good.

------
niklas_a
So basically what he is saying is that Apple was unable to build a iPad Mini
with a retina display and good battery life. But in a defensive move they
decided to enter the 7.9" market anyway.

------
nicholassmith
Good lord some of the commenters on here hate Marco posts. It's a reasonable
and balanced response, and longer than 140 characters. That's not a bad thing.

"I stop noticing after I start doing something with it, of course, but those
first few seconds are a rough reminder every time.", people are looking for
it. Honestly. I've had a Retina iPhone since the 4 and an iPad 2, which when I
bought it I was convinced I could see the pixels. Give it 2 weeks and your
eyes adjust for it.

Also, iPad Mini display in the flesh is _very_ readable, _very_ sharp. Just
not Retina resolution, and if the trade off is for a lighter, thinner, and
less compromised design then it's well worth it.

------
da_n
I don't buy Apple products anymore but when I did I always waited until at
least the 2nd generation of a new product or significant product redesign. The
first release is essentially just a public beta and best avoided completely.

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eloisant
Can we stop repeating Apple's marketing bullshit and drop "Retina"?

~~~
supercoder
What do you propose we use ?

Retina is actually a fairly useful term, it implies a certain pixel density at
a certain point size.

~~~
iaskwhy
By now using PPI should be the same as using GB for the RAM or GHz for the CPU
(pre several cores, now it's a little bit more complex). 300 PPI is classified
as not retina but you wouldn't notice it anyway, that's why we need to drop
the retina classification.

------
otaku888
Maybe it's time they tried a low power amoled display?

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Miademora
I doubt its about size. They can ship the iphone with retina but not the ipad
mini.

~~~
supercoder
960x1136 vs 2048x1536 is a significant jump. It's 2,055,168 more pixels, which
itself is almost 2x as many as the iPhone.

One big issue is the higher the density in pixels the larger and brighter the
backlight needs to be and in turn means a larger battery, more weight and
thickness.

------
drivebyacct2
Ironically in the other tab, I'm hitting refresh:

The Nexus 10 will be available for purchase on Tuesday, Nov. 13th.

for $400.

