
The United States is isolated in the Trans-Pacific Partnership negotiations - Amadou
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2013/11/18/the-united-states-is-isolated-in-the-trans-pacific-partnership-negotiations/
======
r0h1n
Is there no end to what the US Govt will do for large lobby groups?

Here the US seems to be opposing the rights of Lat-Am countries to use
emergency measures to protect their citizens against "Chagas disease" because
that would deny its pharma companies a lucrative & desperate market.

>> Take the following snippet, from Article QQ.A.5:

>> (a) The obligations of this Chapter do not and should not prevent a Party
from taking measures to protect public health by promoting access to medicines
for all, in particular concerning cases such as HIV/AIDS, tuberculosis,
malaria, [US oppose: chagas] and other epidemics as well as circumstances of
extreme urgency or national emergency.

>> Here, "[US oppose: chagas]" indicates the word "chagas" is disputed, with
the United States opposing its inclusion in the treaty. This is a reference to
Chagas disease, a form of trypanosomiasis, a parasitic disease primarily
affecting Latin America. U.S. opposition can probably be attributed to
pressure from the pharmaceutical industry.

~~~
jonnybgood
>"Is there no end to what the US Govt will do for large lobby groups?"

This is not an issue. "Large lobby groups" also include organizations such as
the EFF, ACLU, unions, and foundations such as the Gates Foundation. And let's
not forget the biggest lobby group of all: the American citizenry. If you ever
wrote your elected representative to vote a certain way, you are lobbying.

>"...because that would deny its pharma companies a lucrative & desperate
market."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this doesn't make sense. HIV/AIDS is also a
lucrative desperate market with no vaccine currently available. Heck, why is
the US okay with malaria being on there even?

Also, wouldn't the Latin-Am governments purchase supplies and any future
vaccines from the pharma companies? In a national emergency, the government
throws more money at the issue. So, when there is a Chagas vaccine, the Latin-
Am government can throw more money at the pharma company who is producing the
vaccine. How is the pharma industry benefiting from the US striking out
Chagas?

~~~
alwaysinshade
_let 's not forget the biggest lobby group of all: the American citizenry_

Does the citizenry have the same level of access to negotiating parts of the
TPP as the lobby groups who paid admission? IIRC, the citizenry have been
completely cut out of the process. They didn't even know the contents of the
TPP. What r0h1n possibly implied is that the US Govt backs interests that are
paid for.

~~~
alexeisadeski3
>Does the citizenry have the same level of access to negotiating parts of the
TPP as the lobby groups who paid admission?

If they wanted it, yes.

~~~
vidarh
Are you serious? You do realise that the only reason you've gotten to read
this article was because someone leaked the negotiating draft, right?

While lobbying groups have had direct access to the negotiations, it took
someone violating confidentiality for journalists to even be able to tell you
what's being discussed.

~~~
alexeisadeski3
If senator's phone lines were crammed-full of citizens demanding knowledge of
the negotiations, then the citizens would get that knowledge. But they don't.
No one cares or even knows about this.

~~~
alwaysinshade
_When the executive negotiates without Congress 's participation, citizens
don't get a say in the process. We don't get to review the agreement, or
pressure our representatives into changing or rejecting it. However, special
industry groups do, including the RIAA, as advisors to USTR._

\-
[http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120508/17174518835/time-t...](http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120508/17174518835/time-
to-realize-that-obama-administration-doesnt-even-have-authority-to-commit-us-
to-acta-tpp.shtml)

P.S. The TPP stands for Trans Pacific Partnership. A US senator means jack
shit to someone in Japan, Australia etc.

------
WildUtah
_United States and Japan are relatively isolated in their negotiating
positions. This could bode poorly for the United States as it seeks to shape
the TPP to its liking._

Actually this bodes well for the USA. The greatest enemy of the USA on these
IP issues is the powerful and moneyed insider lobbies that want to destroy our
freedom for a few more dollars. If the US negotiators who are controlled by
those interests might be frustrated, that's the best news the American people
could get.

~~~
malandrew
It would be nice if the news stopped using the term "The United States" for
all these sorts of stories and instead qualified them more precisely. e.g.

"US special interest groups representing the intellectual property lobby
isolated in the Trans-Pacific Partnership negotiations"

~~~
gdy
If not for the fact that these groups act with consent of the government
elected by the people of the United States.

~~~
sp332
Actually, Congress hasn't been allowed to see the treaty either.

------
nl
Ignoring for a second the subject matter, I think it's fantastic to see
network analysis used in a (non-academic) major publication.

It is about time the insights that can give are made available to a wider
audience.

I'd love to see the techniques Bret Victor uses in his "Ladder of
Abstraction"[1] essay applied here especially if they were combined with the
beauty of the NY Times "Snowfall" visualisations[2].

Anyway, well done Washington Post!

[1]
[http://worrydream.com/#!2/LadderOfAbstraction](http://worrydream.com/#!2/LadderOfAbstraction)

[2] [http://www.nytimes.com/projects/2012/snow-
fall/#/?part=tunne...](http://www.nytimes.com/projects/2012/snow-
fall/#/?part=tunnel-creek)

------
vorg
> This graph indicates that the core overlap of negotiating positions
> currently includes New Zealand, Singapore, Chile, and Malaysia, although the
> direct connection between New Zealand and Singapore is weaker than the
> others.

Maybe that's because the 12-country TPP, initiated in 2010, is an expanded
version of the 4-country TPSEP (Trans-Pacific Strategic Economic Partnership)
agreement from 5 yrs earlier among Chile, New Zealand, Singapore, and Brunei.
Their overlapping negotiating positions were cemented 5 years earlier than the
other 8 countries.

> Counting up sole-country proposals, we might have expected the United States
> to take first place; in reality, it turns out to be Canada, with the United
> States and Japan following well behind. Of course, this chart doesn’t tell
> us what Canada is proposing or opposing on its own. It could well be that
> Canada is the sole party capable of opposing controversial provisions.

Maybe this is because the most recent countries to join the negotiations were
Japan (March 2013), Canada, and Mexico (both October 2012).

The article doesn't mention this fact, instead speculates "It could well be
that Canada is the sole party capable of opposing controversial provisions". I
would expect better from the Washington Post.

------
lylebarrere
This is probably more high level academic analysis than the TPP has had in the
previous two years of negotiations, and it shows why open access to the treaty
can provide great benefit to both the people negotiating it and the people who
will be governed by it.

~~~
r0h1n
Great point!

------
jayfuerstenberg
Thank you for dragging the TPP treaty into the light Wikileaks!

Humanity may very well owe you for this.

~~~
sliverstorm
Practicing your overstatements?

~~~
Daishiman
Not for the people who would end up dying of Chagas because they can't afford
medicine.

------
Pitarou
I think the distinctive feature about Japan and the US is that both
governments are (through very different mechanisms) under the sway of their
own internal pressure groups. This makes them unable to take a reasonable
bargaining stance.

Perhaps this is a symptom of Japan's and America's waning power? In the past,
they could afford to take less reasonable stances because they were dominant
in their respective spheres, so their political classes had no incentive to
clean things up.

------
rodgerd
There are a number of options for the US. It could, for example, not be
involved in the trade talks (it wasn't originally); it could make demands that
crash them; it could make ludicrous demands and have them acceeded to; or it
could negotiate as a partner to the other members.

I suspect that the only two outcomes that are regarded as succesful is a
multilateral treaty on US terms, or no multilateral treaty at all. The last
thing the US wants is a multilateral treaty between East Asian and Pacific
nations, which the US regards as its back yard.

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mindstab
Not really surprising. A lot of "big" nations from G8 and other places you'd
expect to see are plain missing from this mess, and those left, while many are
smaller, even they aren't thrilled at being pushed into this clearly US
benefiting gig. The US' international cohesive power is on the wane and this
is great demonstration.

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forgottenpaswrd
When you do business with the US, you see it very clearly: The US is a world
on their own. So big that they don't need to establish connections as they
already have the connections between their States, some of them(most of them)
bigger than Chile or New Zealand.

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CalRobert
I really look forward to the day the rest of the world doesn't give a crap
about whatever the US does. A decadent hegemony in decline that doesn't even
realize how infantile it looks.

------
coldtea
> _The United States is isolated in the Trans-Pacific Partnership
> negotiations_

School bully and his group of 30 rugby playing pals is isolated on negotating
taking the lunch boxes of nerds.

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erikig
I was somewhat disappointed by the articles inherent bias towards the US.
There is no reason why the US should place its strong IP laws and history of
pharmaceutical innovation in jeopardy during the opening salvos of an
international treaty negotiations.

~~~
bobbydavid
This brings up an interesting question. what is the BATNA of these countries.
That is, what is their recourse if nobody can agree?

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quattrofan
So now we know why this is being done in secret, so the US can push morally
indefensible positions such as that over Chagas disease on behalf of big
pharma.

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alexeisadeski3
What's wrong with being alone in pushing an issue? Is this middle school?

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mtgx
I imagine that after SOPA and ACTA, those other countries didn't listen to
every US request anymore, and were embolden to have their own requests.

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xarball
JESUS CHRIST their layout is annoying!

I'm sorry I couldn't even read the article because there's so much CSS garbage
on that page!

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Eye_of_Mordor
Irony: increased openness for a president who promised change.

