
Apple Abandons Development of Wireless Routers - james_pm
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-21/apple-said-to-abandon-development-of-wireless-routers-ivs0ssec
======
taurath
What I miss most about Apple was that Apple was the company that made
reasonable decisions for you, when it came to security and all those technical
details that was/is endemic in any computing. They had Opinions with a capital
O - and made sure that every product you'd buy would be guaranteed to work
with other products. If you had the money, you could focus on what you were
trying to get DONE rather than spend forever learning about the implementation
details. Abstract people from the hardware - focus on the use cases.

Now it seems they're leaving people who depended on that behind. No company
offers an ecosystem that doesn't require "fiddling" to get things to work
correctly. Maybe this is the way it has to be, but I really wonder what
Apple's strategy is going forward, because its clear that they've slowed down
or stopped development on everything other than their phones/pads and the
occasional laptop. What are all their engineers doing? What is the use of
having hundreds of billions in the bank if you're not investing it in growing
or creating product lines?

~~~
Lewisham
Disclaimer: I work for Google.

FWIW, having played around with Google's routers, they work _pretty well_ ,
even from iOS. Chromecasts "just work" in the old Apple sense of the term: you
plug it in, you find the thing you want to watch online that you want on your
TV, press the button in Chrome and hey presto, you got your cat video on your
OLED.

If you're OK with having Google store data on you[1], I'd say the Google
hardware division has a lot of what you talk about here.

[1] Before the flood of angry HN replies come in, I get that is not everyone,
but knowing what I know about Google's privacy practices, I am perfectly happy
with that.

~~~
denzil_correa
> Chromecasts "just work" in the old Apple sense of the term: you plug it in,
> you find the thing you want to watch online that you want on your TV, press
> the button in Chrome and hey presto, you got your cat video on your OLED

I wish. Chromecast could not mirror or could not stream audio. Eventually, I
was fed up and I bought an Apple TV.

~~~
rictic
Couldn't mirror in what sense? I know that you can cast your entire screen
from a desktop or from an Android. Unsure about iOS devices.

~~~
duaneb
On iOS, chromecast support is up to the app. This means no streaming movies
you got from Amazon or Apple. This kind of behavior might make sense from a
service, but not from an appliance.

That said, chromecast has probably my favorite interface for interacting with
the set-top box. I mourned moving on to the apple tv.

------
appleiigs
For the past decade I've been blindly buying Apple products (but been using
Macs since late 90s), while looking at alternatives with disdain. Paying the
Apple premium allowed the tech to get out of the way. Very happy to continue
paying, but it seems like Apple is forcing me to leave. In this relationship,
I'm the one getting dumped. I'm not sad about it, but from a business
perspective why they are actively pushing me away? Canceling product lines
(routers, mac pro), not updating the active ones (mac mini, iMac), and being
difficult with the products they do update (MBP, iPhone).

On a relative basis, Apple has infinite resources. It has cash, the brand and
can attract the right people to run the business. Each product line, like the
routers and mac pro can be focused on because they have the resources to do
it. Most companies re-focus on core products because they are spread too thin
- Apple is not.

~~~
addicted
I think the answer is margins.

If you're not making 40+% profit margins you're bringing the company's overall
margins down and have to go.

~~~
tammer
Its not about margins (well, it is, but not primarily): its about story.

The AirPort line was born during a time when your ISP only provided you with a
modem, if that. Wireless connectivity was a brand new world that required new
hardware.

We're not in that world anymore: ISPs set up (and support!) wireless access
with their networking at no extra charge. To most consumers, the AirPort went
from being the simplest gateway to wireless coverage to being an accessory for
the Apple-centric household. That's why you saw so many features added to the
AirPort over time (hard drive, print server, airplay server). Bluetooth
speakers, airplay receivers, AirPrint, etc. have over time obsoleted these
uses.

There's another story for the Mac Pro - although many professionals who look
to the Mac as an option among many systems probably won't like it.

~~~
newscracker
The ISP story you're talking about does not apply to the entire world. There
are hundreds of ISPs who still charge for a WiFi router separately. No
firmware updates coming in is a huge concern for all these routers and
devices.

~~~
symfoniq
Indeed. And where I live, pretty much everyone has municipal fiber. There is
no ISP-provided default router—just an ethernet jack in your wall.

------
falcolas
This restriction of their efforts on only the most profitable offerings like
this seems like a continued step backwards for a company which used to do so
much innovating. If all you work on is the iteration and merging of existing
devices, you're going to be left in the cold as you're out-innovated by your
competitors.

This is what happened to Microsoft, and it took many years and a major
internal upset to get them back on a positive track. And now look at Microsoft
since they've started diversifying and innovating again: they are providing an
OS (and hardware) which is genuinely interesting to professionals in a variety
of fields. They are going to steal Apple's thunder here soon, unless Apple
really makes an effort.

~~~
kilroy123
Or someone else will come around to do the same. I really think we need a very
solid and paid-for desktop Linux OS.

Something that is well designed and innovative. I for one would pay for one.

~~~
uabstraction
A commercial Linux distro aimed at consumers would be cool, but things aren't
so bad as it is. Making the switch will surely require some adaptation and
getting used to, but when you get settled, things are pretty smooth, and only
getting better. I've been happily running Debian as my primary OS for 8 years
now, and I spent a few of those years running Linux exclusively.

The way I see it, Apple excels on the whole overarching synergy thing, while
Linux excels on individual component quality. Considering that each component
is an independent project, the Linux ecosystem will never be as homogenous as
Windows or Mac. That said, it's a trade many of us happily make for the power
of choice.

------
joakleaf
So what is Apple working on now?

• iPhone 7 looks like iPhone 6 sans the headphone jack. So no design changes
for 3 years. To me, 7 does not feel like a significant update over 6.

• Macbook Pro got a touch bar. Otherwise, minor design changes since last
revision. Does not feel like a significant update.

• iMac not updated for 12 months. No significant design changes for years, but
the screen resolution is now Retina.

• Macbook Air not updated since March 2015 (still low resolution). No
significant design changes since introduction.

• Mac Mini not updated since 2014. No design changes since 2011.

• Mac Pro not updated since 2013.

• iOS 10 and macOS are minor revisions.

• Thunderbolt display and now Airport extreme/express are dead

• The iPad Pro 9.7" looks like iPad air (1 or 2). iPad pro 12.9" looks like
any existing iPad but bigger. The iPad minis all look alike.

• They didn't release new iPads this fall. Isn't that a first?

It feels like the hardware line-ups are getting more confusing: Two different
iPad sizes called Pro as wells as "Air 2" and the minis. It made sense that
the Pro was the largest one, but they confused us by releasing a smaller Pro
that looks like an Air 2, but has a better display than the large Pro. How
many iPads do we need?

There is the main iPhone line (... 6 6S and 7) that comes in two sizes, and
then the evil cousin called iPhone SE which looks like a 5.

The laptop line is getting more messy too. The Macbook is like a slower
Macbook Air but with higher resolution and 12". They killed the 11" Air, but
we now have 3 laptops at 13" (Air + two types of Pro). Is the 13" Pro without
touch bar option really necessary?

All these series ("", Air, Pro, SE, Mini) which pop in and out of existence
feels like they are trying different names for marketing reasons (especially
for the iPads).

I appreciate the yearly impressive but predictable CPU/GPU and software
improvements, but it is really starting to feel like they are either
struggling a bit, or working on something that takes a lot of resources from
non-essentials and focus.

~~~
Corrado
This reminds me of when Jobs came back to Apple and the first thing he did was
clean house. At the time they have tons of different computer models (Performa
2xx, 3xx, 4xx, 5xx, 6xx, 63xx, 65xx, etc.) built specifically to cater to
dealers. Jobs came in and said that they only needed 4 computing devices; home
desktop, home portable, pro desktop, pro portable. This made is much easier to
decide what to purchase - everyone loved it! Except the dealers, I guess.

Anyway, it just feels like there are way to many different models now. Are
they trying to please the bean-counters and not the customer? What advantage
is there is having so many different types of computing devices that really
are very similar?

~~~
joakleaf
That's exactly how I feel too.

The worst part is that the old Macbook Pro was my go-to model previously, but
the new one just feels like a more expensive step in the wrong direction.

I don't really want a touch bar (I use an external keyboard 75% of the time),
and I do actually like to have the earphone jack, SD card, Magsafe, and
traditional USB ports.

... So despite the messy list of models, there isn't really one that I want
anymore.

Oh, well. Maybe it will make sense in a year or two.

------
abakker
Ugh, this is the first news that I've seen that I feel is really _bad_.
Monitors were ok, that seemed understandable since they were for professionals
to go with the mac pro. Apple's monitors were at best "prosumer".

Wifi though has always been a very big PITA for consumers, and Apple's
hardware/software integration has always been a better bet for ease of
configuration, and honestly, reliability.

The optimist in me hopes that maybe they'll have something better for us, or
are making an acquisition to replace their current product lineup completely.

The pessimist in me thinks that maybe they're leaving this market to avoid
needing to develop hardware that meets its publicly stated standards for
protecting consumer privacy. Potentially they have been approached/mandated to
enable some kind of backdoor in it, and they chose to stop producing it,
rather than comply. /tinfoil_hat

~~~
PaulHoule
If you really want high performance networking, use wired. It is stupid to
connect a television set, for instance, via WiFi. You should plug in anything
that doesn't move around, and leave the limited bandwidth WiFi for those who
need it.

People won't listen though because in 2016 it seems most people think wires
are ritually unclean.

~~~
Angostura
> People won't listen though because...

... they don't particularly want to lift floorboards, and drill through floors
and ceilings if the wireless solution is 'good enough'.

~~~
equalarrow
Exactly. I have a few things wired in the house where they're actually close
enough to a switch. But for phones and tables and laptops (we have several),
wired is not an option.

This is also shitty news because I had very high confidence that an Apple
router would not ship with any kind of malware or other crap I don't need.
Now, I have to find something better, comparable in price, and works well with
Mac household.. Sad face.

~~~
Nullabillity
> and works well with Mac household.. Sad face.

Apart from Apple's and Google's idiotic antics, what routers require anything
more than a browser to configure?

~~~
wahern
Requiring a browser implies that the device has a full web stack on it,
including one of Perl, PHP, or Node.js. That's the last thing I want on my
WiFi router, or any router!

As annoying as it is for some, the configuration interface for Apple AirPort
used a simple SNMP interface. Now, lots of SNMP software has had bugs and
remote exploits, but all things being equal it's a much simpler interface to
export and requires shipping less code, not least because it doesn't have to
support a GUI, directly or indirectly.

That said, I always configure my WiFi router (AirPort or w'ever) in bridging
mode and put them behind my gateway. And I try to disable any web GUI entirely
if at all possible. People who use the built-in WiFi capabilities of their
Cable or DSL modems are begging to be hacked.

~~~
extra88
> Requiring a browser implies that the device has a full web stack on it,
> including one of Perl, PHP, or Node.js.

Not really, CGI can be written in anything, shell scripting, C, whatever. But
security-wise, it doesn't much matter the language because the programmers
working on the web interfaces of such embedded devices rarely do a good job.

------
nodesocket
I see a major problem at Apple. They are being run by committee. Tim Cook is
not a visionary or entrepreneur at heart. He is a logistics guy.

The best run technology companies are run by dictators with a strong
technology and product background (Jobs, Elon Musk, Reed Hastings). Let me say
it again... Yes dictator. You are never going to get a large group of people
to agree on something, if you do it's watered down, compromised, and lacks
ambition.

~~~
draw_down
I think this is more about their growth than any of that. Things like routers
and monitors just aren't worth making to them anymore. I'm not sure a
different CEO would have seen things differently. I think a lot of people have
seen this sort of thing coming, but I wonder if it's happening now because
they're not breaking financial records every quarter anymore and want to cut
non-essential (from their perspective) biz units.

Recall that one of the first things Jobs did upon his return was to focus the
product mix, and he got rid of lots of stuff. Cameras, printers, and most
famously the Newton.

~~~
dpark
Yeah, but Jobs did that when the company was in steep decline and genuinely at
risk of failing. The current Apple is in a very different place financially.

~~~
draw_down
True. But he did that in order to refocus on the company on what was important
to it.

------
kalleboo
Third-party routers have gotten a lot better in reliability since I got my
first AirPort (when getting a consumer router that would do 100 MBit NAT
routing was nearly impossible, and my parents had one of those lamp timers on
their ADSL router to reboot it every day at 3 AM).

I felt this coming as long as Apple never added iOS backup support to the Time
Capsule. The APFS migration seemed like it would be the final bullet.

Had to ditch my latest-model Time Capsule when I got fiber since Apple doesn't
let you change the MTU (required for my PPPoE over fiber), and getting faster
Time Machine backups than Apple's anemic CPU could muster was just a plus. I
was hoping to reuse it as an 802.11ac bridge to my TV/Media center, but, nope,
Apple removed wireless bridging as a feature a couple years ago.

Good riddance.

edit: just got reminded they spent a bunch of money developing special paper
and ink for a $300 book instead of this. OK, yeah, no there's logic here.

~~~
Eric_WVGG
APFS is my theory too. Given that Time Machine would need to be wholly re-
written to support APFS, and the Apple strategy is to move everything to
iCloud, this makes total sense.

I also expect that APFS will make superior alternatives to Time Machine from
third-parties possible, so IMO in the long term this is a net plus. It is
probably unfortunate for Apple that this news got out before Time Machine 2:
iCloud Bugaloo could be announced, though.

------
electic
I think what you are witnessing here is a shift in demographics within the
company. When Jobs was around, product was king. When engineers said we needed
these components, the business folks would figure out how to make the
economics work.

Now what we are witnessing is the product people are not in charge. The
business folks are. So you start to see them tell the product folks they can't
do something because it is not cost effective and that is profound.

~~~
samsolomon
There was an interesting idea floating around Designer News—Without Steve Jobs
nobody can contain Johnny Ive.

Jobs was a champion of the user. Tim Cook's specialty is in logistics, and
probably defaults to Ive on many product decisions. In the mean time Ive
continues designing beautiful products that focus on beauty and compromise on
function.

I doubt that's the case, but I like the theory.

[https://www.designernews.co/stories/76730-jony-ive-shows-
app...](https://www.designernews.co/stories/76730-jony-ive-shows-apple-design-
studio)

~~~
flukus
Isn't Johnny Ive responsible for a lot of the awful skuemorphic design?

~~~
matthew-wegner
No, that was supposedly Scott Forstall (and Ive flushed it all with iOS 7 once
Forstall was fired).

~~~
flukus
Thanks.

------
symfoniq
It's kind of funny:

I recently decided that Apple's ecosystem no longer works for me, and that I'm
gradually going to start putting most of my tech eggs into other baskets.

And whaddaya know? Between the monitors, the wireless routers, and the high-
end professional workstations, Apple seems to agree with me that their
ecosystem no longer works.

I guess it's nice to have some confirmation.

~~~
lisper
> other baskets

Which other baskets? There seems to be nothing out there today that Just Works
the way Apple products once did. :-(

~~~
symfoniq
At this point, I'm just hedging my bets: Windows for creative stuff; Linux for
development; still using iOS for my phone (maybe the Pixel 2 will finally
convert me to Android).

I don't find that Mac OS X (sorry, macOS) or iOS "just work" as much as they
used to, so that's not really a requirement going forward. The platforms to
which I migrate just need to be heading the right direction (which is to say,
the opposite direction of Apple).

Microsoft is looking like a newly reawakened company. Between the Surface
Studio announcement and the Connect() conference, it seems that Microsoft is
serious about pursuing both developers and creative types (I'm in both camps,
and Apple is underwhelming me in both areas).

Right now, I'm using Windows and Linux to get work done, but Microsoft's
efforts at improving the Linux development story might eventually let me boot
just one OS again.

------
gchokov
That's just too sad. I was thinking recently how my 3 year old AirPort express
was the best router I've owned. These routers were always super easy to
configure and I remember maybe one reboot in its lifetime... it powers: 2 MBP
pros; 2 iPhones 1 Apple TV 1 Roomba 980 cleaning bot 1 Footbot - Air quality
monitoring 1 Apple Watch 1 Sony PS4 ... everything working flawlessly

Sad day for me.

~~~
baldfat
You would be shocked at how good an ASUS router is comparably. I always have
people tell me I have over killed my houses wifi but the speed are awesome and
I own a home built in 1894 and has plaster walls.

I don't understand how a router can be simpler then just typing in the
password unless your trying to accomplish something more complex.

~~~
MrBuddyCasino
Yup, the trick is simply to not buy a shitty router. I got an Netgear AC1900
Nighthawk, and its working flawlessly.

~~~
mikestew
Yup, and that trick _used_ to be "go buy an Airport". Now the trick will be
"go read a bunch of web pages and hope you make a good choice". I'm not
looking forward to it when my AirPort Extreme dies.

------
lsadam0
I'm all in the Apple ecosystem, but I'm starting to feel pushed out. First the
Mac Pro, then Displays, now this? Is Time Capsule next? My airport extreme is
the most reliable home router I have ever owned.

~~~
tptacek
Time Capsule really should be next. Apple doesn't have any real comparative
advantage in backup software. The Time Capsule interface is interesting, but
it's not what most people need from a backup solution (what most people need
is set-it-and-forget-it that works from arbitrary locations).

~~~
dsacco
I disagree with this. I think that Apple's time capsule is not well suited to
an _offsite_ backup solution, and it probably shouldn't even be the primary.

But if you're in the Apple ecosystem anyway, I think it's really convenient to
take complete disk images for a full system restore. I think it's cool to use
a 3-2-1 backup chain with a backup system image.

Granted, this is coming from someone who uses Tarsnap, Arq and Crashplan; but
I've used Apple time capsules and I really admire their usability. In a
restore scenario I don't have to choose particular files or folders, I just
have to choose a date and the entire system is back. This is not without its
downsides (no granularity in restore), but it's super convenient if it's what
you need.

If I were in a decision making position, I'd get rid of the Apple routers like
they are doing and double down on time capsules by providing an integrated
offsite solution, perhaps marketed with end to end encryption as a nod to
privacy advocates.

~~~
colomon
Huh? I've only ever used Time Machine to grab individual files from backup,
which is dead easy. (Okay, I have grabbed all the most recent files when doing
a full system restore.)

------
oceanswave
So I've ignored all the chatter of the headphone jack and the MBP and chalked
them up to being in a transitionary period both for wireless and USB-C.

But this move seems to indicate a fundamental misunderstanding of the Apple
ecosystem. Starting with the WiFi in a consumer's house, today, the Apple
'System' provides you with the entire experience from simply using your
iPhone/iPad to easily playing your music on your speakers through AirPlay to
watching content on Apple TV to backing up your computers via TimeMachine and
providing remote access through Back-To-my-Mac.

Further, the devices provide guest and "Mesh" like functionality to have an
extended WiFi network -- before mesh wifi technology existed.

All this and easily configured though, most appropriately, an app.

Shutting down this most fundamental base functionality of AirPort to me is a
signal that Apple really doesn't want to be in the business beyond iPhones and
iPads.

This coming at a time when the competition is actually ramping up providing
WiFi devices (Google WiFi) and providing something that Apple has had for
years.

It's mind boggling.

~~~
pat2man
Apple can easily sell something like the Eero at the Apple stores and provide
a similar (app based) setup. Apple tends to try to innovate where they think
other companies are dropping the ball but the wifi router space is getting
quite crowded. Not really an opportunity for Apple to blow everyone out of the
water.

~~~
eridius
Agreed. I think Apple can still sell the entire experience if you shop at
their store, they just no longer feel the need to have the Apple logo on each
product you buy. For monitors there's a strong argument that the monitor is a
very visible piece of technology and so should retain the Apple design, but
routers generally are put in some out-of-the-way place and, as long as they
work well, it doesn't really matter who makes them.

------
phs318u
I can relate to the sadness of those witnessing the slow-motion atrophy of an
epic company. Apple have been the company that "did it right", that made it
"just work" and got out of your way, all while looking ridiculously beautiful,
without compromising on engineering quality and with sensible security baked
in. Once upon a time I thought/hoped Apple would by Sun - what a world that
would have been!

Given that's no longer the company we're being left with, is there a window of
opportunity for a new entrant to step in and start filling that void using the
same principles of design and cohesion that Apple have made famous? A sort of
"Apple for Nerds"[1].

[1] BTW, this is not Google, nor should it be any company where the "customer"
is actually the product.

~~~
FT_intern
>Given that's no longer the company we're being left with, is there a window
of opportunity for a new entrant to step in and start filling that void using
the same principles of design and cohesion that Apple have made famous?

Xiaomi can steal the entire process and product sell that same product for
half the price

~~~
RCortex
>Xiaomi And it will never be of apple's quality during its heyday, or even of
the quality apple offers now. Copying isn't enough, or sony snd toshiba or
samsung woukd be able to make comparable laptops.

------
jarjoura
The problem with Apple's internal culture is that even though engineers are
brilliant and fully capable, products are designed from the top down.

Apple employs people who are a very passionate about wireless technology. VERY
passionate. They just don't get the resources or freedom to take their
products to the next level. They have to wait for someone from above to be
sold on the idea. Yet, it never happens because the engineers are told to keep
fixing bugs and keep things humming along. File a radar, and keep doing your
job.

Probably what happened, a few senior engineers got yanked onto the Watch
project or this fabled car thing. They worked and worked and worked on it, and
left the junior guys fixing macOS/iOS airport bugs. Then when it came time to
build a new revision, they noticed suddenly they were WAY behind the market.
Meanwhile, engineers continued fixing macOS/iOS bugs, this time for 3rd party
systems, and bam, someone in upper management probably asked, "umm, why are we
still building our own thing?" They probably merged the OS wireless teams with
the driver team and called it a day.

So here we are today, Bloomberg most likely got a tipoff from a disgruntled
employee who didn't like they were killing the project.

------
mikekij
How does Tim Cook not see that the ease of use of their entire ecosystem (from
routers, monitors to software utilities) is what justified spending twice as
much on a mac or an iPhone as a competitor's product? Thinning that ecosystem
makes their hardware premiums much harder to justify.

~~~
mmcconnell1618
Unless Apple is going to put 5G chips into all their future devices and get
into the carrier business.

~~~
croon
If they only want regional markets, sure, but they can forget a global market
at that point.

------
anexprogrammer
I'm less bothered by an exit from routers than monitors and the other changes.
That said they were nicely implemented and reliable.

All of the current changes are taking away.

Aesthetics were and are a huge part of the appeal of an Apple filled desk. Not
a one of the other makes gets close yet Apple haven't even asked LG to make
their 5k screen look _nice_ or even complementary.

After the underwhelming MBP with rubbish travel-free keyboard, and not having
a monitor to sit alongside my iMac, they seem incoherent. Where's the new
Mini, Pro, 34" curved Cinema screen or iMac?

We just need someone else to discover aesthetics and they have a real problem
to contend with. I care what the overall look is of things in my home.

------
brianbreslin
I think its harder and harder for Apple to charge $199 for a router when you
can get a modem/router combo for $70, or "free" from comcast. The margins on
these devices are declining fast. Additionally Google just released their
router, and netgear/linksys etc have been dominating that market for ages.

Why allocate the manpower when the others on the market have caught up with
ease of use and this generates less than 1% of your revenue?

~~~
brandon272
Wasn't this always the case with Apple's routers? (cheaper or free
alternatives)

~~~
brianbreslin
yeah but back in the day the price difference wasn't as stark. Linksys routers
used to be $150-200, now they're $40-80

~~~
beedogs
The decent ones are still $200 or more.

Sure, they'll sell you a cheap, shitty N router for $30, but it'll probably
catch fire.

------
ksec
The Apple Router is an absolute Joy to use. Most people, especially enthusiast
keeps talking about range, speed etc. But none of them is as important as
stability! What is the point if connection suddenly dropped, or you need a
reset. It is by far the best consumer Router. While its competition has
improved, ASUS, TP-Link, Netgear, Linksys, DLink. They are properly the
biggest 5 consumer brand routers, it still hasn't reached the Airport Extreme
yet.

The Airport are based on NetBSD, and if you follow Apple you could trust them
leaving no backdoors opened.

I fully agree with some have said that we need Time Capsule, or a local iCloud
Storage that sync between the local and online iCloud. Making iPhone / iPad
and Mac backup much faster and has a iCloud Subscription comes with it.

I was hoping, with Apple making ways towards wireless, to make their own WiFI
chipset. The 802.11ax that makes everything better in 2.4/5Ghz and a 60Ghz
implementation of 802.11ay.

------
twblalock
I'm on Apple's side on this one.

I know a lot of people who have worked, or currently work, at Apple, and a lot
of other Apple fans who buy almost all of their technology products from
Apple. I don't think any of them ever bought an Airport.

Airports were a lot more expensive than most consumer routers, and ease of
setup is not a huge differentiator. With most routers, you go through the pain
of setting them up the day you buy them, and that's it. Even non-technical
don't seem to have too much trouble setting up their generic consumer routers.

I would much rather see Apple focus its engineering resources on a good iPhone
7 than waste them on a wifi router that is not nearly as important to the
company's ecosystem and revenue.

~~~
symfoniq
My own anecdotal evidence is that there are at least two dozen Airports in my
neck of the woods because that's what I recommended to friends, family, and
coworkers who wanted a wireless router than "just worked." And "just work"
they have. This post is being routed through a Time Capsule.

My own opinion is that Apple is being shortsighted by culling so much of what
made their ecosystem deep _and_ wide. The bean counters are running Apple now;
I wouldn't touch their stock with a ten foot pole.

------
nerdwaller
This is pretty disappointing. I'm not an Apple fanboy, but after I went
through a new router every 6-8mo for two years (none of which were low end) -
I decided to try the Apple one. It's now been at least 3 years or so with zero
issues.

Here's to hoping AC is good enough for the foreseeable future. I'm presuming
it will be for the average joe.

~~~
donatj
This. Exactly this. I'd blow through routers but I've been using the Airport
Extreme happily for several years.

~~~
nerdwaller
My sister has the original Airport Extreme (2007, b/g/n). She got it when they
graduated college in 2007, still no issues, and `n` is still more than enough
for a large portion of the population. That is what originally made me try out
the APE.

------
noir-york
Another sad decision by Apple. My Airport Extreme and multiple Expresses
worked great. Loved the Utility app to help configure them - handy little
tool.

With Apple's resources the router division cannot have been a distraction, nor
would not having it materially or even to any large extent, affect Apple's
numbers. Maybe this reflects a retrenching mindset taking hold within Apple?

~~~
grzm
_" Loved the Utility app to help configure them - handy little tool."_

I agree. It may very well be just what I was used to, but I've always found
the networking/configuration software very straightforward.

~~~
tstrimple
Until you need access to a feature that the latest version of the tool doesn't
support, so you have to jump through hoops to find and download an old version
and attempt to get it to run on a newer unsupported version of OS X. I see no
good reason not to just provide a web interface which enables you to configure
the router from any computer with a web browser.

------
IgorPartola
It's 2016 and Wi-Fi is still a pain. Security is non-trivial, firmware is not
patched, joining a network is complicated, extending coverage is very tricky.

My solution has been to use a TP-Link router running OpenWRT as the router,
and a UniFi as an access point. I run the Ubiquiti controller on a separate
server. This gives me very good performance and coverage, but the ease of use
is zilch. It requires me to know way more than an average person should need
to know just to get the network set up.

I have never used the Airport routers from Apple, but I understand that they
aimed at fixing a lot of these issues. Ultimately I chose not to go with them
because they were still not a turnkey solution, while not giving me nearly the
performance (speed and coverage) I wanted.

I wonder who will be the go to recommendation from now on.

~~~
dawnerd
+1 on the UniFi gear. I think it's the closest to what apple was trying to go
for but a lot more complex. Their site isn't all that clear what you need when
you're looking at the products and their documentation kind of assumes you can
read their mind - especially if you get an edgemax router with a first gen
firmware on it. But, once it's all up and running adding new devices is
actually quite nice with the controller app.

~~~
arca_vorago
There is a reason for this, if I remember correctly, some of the core Ubiquiti
engineers were actually senior devs at Apple. I have personally quite enjoyed
Ubiquiti, for all their faults, I still find them better than almost every
alternative at the current moment.

~~~
pedrocr
How do you compare it to just buying nice off-the-shelf APs and installing
OpenWRT on them? I've been doing that for quite a while now and it's
reasonably painless. The things I've seen mentioned are that Ubiquiti makes
the config easier (don't really care at this point) and has better support for
seamless handoff which was an issue when doing VoIP over WiFi sounded like a
good idea but these days normal cell coverage is too good and too cheap to
bother.

~~~
dawnerd
I've found their APs to be far better - There's a reason a lot of businesses
have ended up installing them. I used to buy regular aps and install openwrt
but I could never quite get the performance out of them that I wanted. I've
been able to max out my gigabit connection with the UAC-PRO

~~~
pedrocr
The hardware does seem tempting. I've been planning on buying one of their APs
and just using it like my others by installing OpenWRT as well. Their bullet
line in particular seems quite tempting for simple outdoor applications. I'm
not too keen on not using open source firmware because I don't like having
lock-in going forward, and the added features don't seem particularly tempting
for me.

------
carsongross
The bean counter mentality ruins product companies again and again (see autos)
and yet even a company as powerfully idea-driven as Apple falls victim to it.

I was skeptical of the predictions of apples implosion once Steve was gone.
How important can one guys contribution be?

Oops.

------
lowbloodsugar
Seems like Apple has missed the point. I buy expensive devices for the
ecosystem, and that ecosystem includes the routers (of which I have four in my
house). I also bought the expensive devices because they would expand to meet
my needs: my 2011 17" MBP came with 8GB RAM and now has 16GB. It now appears
that Apple is the iPhone company. Someone has looked at the numbers and
decided that everything else is tiny by comparison. Except its only tiny by
comparison to iPhone.

------
matthewmacleod
That's annoying. Airport routers have been the only ones I've bought that
don't randomly quit working or require periodic restarts.

Time to look at something like Ubiquiti I guess.

~~~
aeharding
Ubiquiti routers are really great. I highly recommend them; I've never had to
restart one.

~~~
pzb
I agree 100%, but they don't have an AP + CloudKey + Security Gateway in one
unit. That is what many people effectively want for home use.

~~~
astrocat
Well, it's not at all equivalent to an AP, Cloudkey and SG, but they DO have a
consumer product: [https://amplifi.com/](https://amplifi.com/)

Unfortunately details are sparse on their incredibly annoying, scroll-
hijacking marketing site. But it seems to be a simple enough, plug-and-play
mesh network setup, and the industrial design is quite nice. I think Ubnt just
doesn't have the marketing machine needed to really push it in the consumer
space.

~~~
calebm
I bought an Amplifi with high expectations, and my expectations were exceeded.
The router is great, but my favorite part is the included smartphone app. It
makes diagnosing network problems, enabling guest networks, figuring out who's
using all the bandwidth a cinch.

As I write this, I realize it sounds like an ad, so for clarity: I'm in no way
affiliated with Ubiquiti - just a satisfied customer.

~~~
astrocat
Super happy to hear that. I've been thinking of getting one for my parents
since their house is quite large. What kind of sqft are you covering?

------
nathanvanfleet
Wow, so no more simple Time Machine backup product, and no more to stream
music to (maybe they couldn't accept that they had a headphone jack?). This
sounds like it's actually quite the departure from their previous strategy to
have a digital hub with numerous features about the home.

I honestly think they have become myopic. They aren't seeing the big picture
of what some of the less profitable products and features are accomplishing.
They just aren't making enough income.

~~~
izacus
Hmm, pretty much any NAS out there (Synology, QNAP or WD) will expose itself
as a TimeMachine target as soon as you turn it on. What's not simple about
those (+ they give you actual protection from HDD failure)?

~~~
DenisM
It used to be just one small neat white box, and now it becomes two less neat
boxes: a router with pointy antennas and a NAS. More things to plug, more
wires to run, more devices to setup.

------
mindcrash
In case anyone is looking for replacements: Ubiquiti makes some really great
professional grade stuff (in regard to design and hardware).

I would recommend pairing a couple Unifi AP AC Pro Access Points (with a
maximum throughput of around 1.3Gbps on the 5Ghz band) with a Unifi Security
Gateway and for most scenarios you will be done and probably never look back.
If you really are into networking you could also take a look at their EdgeMax
series which has some router features the more simple Unifi products do not
provide (like a shit ton of routing features, and the ability to hook it up
directly onto a fiber cable using the provided SFP port)

Take a look at [https://www.ubnt.com/](https://www.ubnt.com/) if you are
interested. Hope this helps :)

~~~
anexprogrammer
Not saying you're wrong, but when I was looking at router replacements the
Amazon reviews didn't inspire confidence. I ended up buying another Netgear
putting DD-WRT on it.

eg [https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Unifi-Security-Gateway-
USG-P...](https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Unifi-Security-Gateway-USG-
PRO-4/dp/B019PBEI5W)

~~~
aseipp
The main complaints I've seen about the security gateway are mostly that it
just doesn't have a lot of features, and some people hit some bad performance.
It's really lacking some important features for anyone even remotely a power
user. But it seems like they're porting over a lot of features from the
EdgeMAX router line to the Unifi line -- so in a few version cycles, you'll
get more powerful routing, full VPN, DPI, etc. etc. I'd probably wait on
buying a security gateway, though I admit, they're nice for "coherence".

The EdgeMAX line is apparently great. I've never used it, but their basic
routers are about as cheap. You just don't get fancy SSO/integration, but they
are reliable and fast as hell, from what I've heard.

That said, I wouldn't let the security gateway dissuade you too much. Their
Unifi product line is still generally very good, especially WiFi. I have a
small atom board running pfSense as my router, but it's backed by 2x Unifi AC
AP Pros (802.11ac), along with a Unifi switch, and a Unifi Cloud Key for
running my controller. It works really well, allows remote access, decent
breakdown of where my bandwidth comes from vis a vis APs and switch, etc. The
AC AP is probably one of the best direct APs I've ever used in terms of
quality, though there was a firmware bug that annoyed my Apple devices for a
short time...

Unifi is almost certainly never going to get close to the features of pfSense,
but maybe in a few years down the line when I retire it I'll look again. The
WiFi APs and stuff are good though, I'd recommend them, even if you don't go
with the switch/router.

------
nodesocket
As an Apple shareholder, and very happy user of Time Capsule this is extremely
disappointing. My time capsule is the best value for a solid wireless AC
router with 2TB of disk backup which I use to backup my iMac and MacBook Pro
with Time Machine.

Can anybody name a solid alternative for $299?

~~~
jdhore
I personally think that a good alternative is the Synology Router (RT1900ac I
believe is the model number) and plug a USB hard drive into its USB port.

The router itself is $150 and you can easily find even like a 5TB external HDD
for another $150.

------
qwertyuiop924
Good riddance. I've had an AirPort for years, and the thing never worked
right. If you're all apple, things are fine, but if a Linux or Android device
connects to your network (I use both), you can forget it: The connection will
be awful, and it will slow down and drop constantly.

And yes, it actually is the AirPort, as said devices actually work fine on
other networks.

~~~
gkop
This is true. I worked for a couple years at a ~10 person start up whose
office used AirPorts. Indeed, it was reportedly rock solid for Apple devices,
but flaky as hell from Linux.

------
Negative1
My Airport Extreme finally died a few weeks ago and I replaced it with an
OnHub (the TP-Link one). Couldn't be happier -- my Wifi range extends well
beyond the perimeter of my house, speeds (appear) to be faster with less
connection issues _and_, I can monitor router activity and other stuff
directly from their App (though that is the one area it could use a few more
features).

Google is definitely winning some points in the "simple and works" category.
Pricey but worth it, IMHO.

------
nashashmi
The Post-Jobs Apple:

\- Steer Apple towards its more established areas of expertise, where margins
and competitive advantage is high, and the rest of the competition is dismal;

\- Clip non-innovative departments where purpose and identity are lost;

\- Concentrate resources where Apple's leadership is comfortable in;

\- Sunset all else.

~~~
danieldk
This starts to sound increasingly like Balmer Microsoft. Optimize profits,
kill creativity.

~~~
adgasf
I don't agree with that assessment. If Balmer was following that strategy, MS
would have moved to just 2 products: Windows and Office.

------
rxlim
According to the NetBSD Wikipedia page[1] the firmware in Apple wireless
routers is based on NetBSD.

I have heard a few people say that their Apple router has been very reliable,
so maybe it has to do with it running NetBSD, or at least I would like to
think that is the cause.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetBSD#Examples_of_use](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetBSD#Examples_of_use)

------
tlrobinson
_" sharpen the company’s focus on consumer products that generate the bulk of
its revenue"_

I'm sure Apple of all companies knows this, but revenue of a particular
product doesn't necessarily show the whole picture when some of your brand's
appeal is that customers can buy all Apple products and be fairly confident
they work well together.

Separately, I'm very happy with Ubiquiti products, but I'm also a power user.

------
gigatexal
I hate this. One of the draws for me to Apple has always been their vertical
integration: everything made by Apple (> 90% of the time) just worked. I never
had any issues with my airport extreme and was looking forward to what cool
things they would do with them: mesh networking, integrating home automation
points? Fuse them with Apple-TV? Alas, just put all your eggs into the Iphone
I guess.

------
mahyarm
When are we going to get an airplay express now the airport express is going
away. And I don't want to maintain a raspberry pi or deal with some airplay
speaker's bad airplay implementation.

~~~
closeparen
There isn't any maintenance. I've had 2 RPi Shairplay servers running in my
parents' house for 3 years now, no service calls.

~~~
mahyarm
How often do you update them? Do they autoupdate themselves like an apple
airplay router could? Has that gone wrong?

~~~
closeparen
I let Debian install security updates automatically; they haven't broken
anything so far. The devices are only available from the LAN and only expose
SSH, Bonjour, and the actual Airplay protocol server, so I'm not too worried.

I wrote a systemd unit for the daemon so it comes up again on a power cycle,
and encapsulated the config in a puppet repo for repeatable deploys (did the
first one by hand, developed puppet and used it for them both when it came
time for the second installation).

Hardest part was WiFi, you have set some config flag to keep the dongle from
falling asleep when idle. But I caught that on the first day of deployment,
and it hasn't been an issue since.

If you don't want a Linux project or an expensive project, there are cheap
Bluetooth audio receivers on Amazon.

------
Randgalt
Damn - I'm speechless. What the heck is going on in Cupertino? The Airport
Extreme is THE best wireless router you can buy. Also, it has the integrated
Time Capsule which is incredible

------
usaphp
if you think about it - they've abandoned monitors, routers, Mac minis,
MacBook airs, iPods, what the hell are all those people who worked on these
products are doing now? I can understand if they had some other great products
in the works but Mac Pro has not been updated for a while, iPhone and MacBook
updates are pathetic, looks like Apple is now focused more on marketing and
social buzz than creating actual products...

------
post_break
Displays, wireless routers, next headless macs?

~~~
harryh
Don't scare me with that prediction! I <3 my Mac mini!

~~~
spiderfarmer
The last _good_ Mac Mini is from 2012, so the Mac Mini is even more neglected
than the Mac Pro.

If they ever release a new Mac Mini, it will probably be their last.

~~~
harryh
That isn't making me feel any better! Nor is your username spiderfarmer.

~~~
newscracker
Sadly, that's the truth. I have a Mac mini from 2007 that's still going good,
but I didn't feel that the 2012 model would be a good replacement when it came
out. The 2014 model was a disaster beyond that (down to dual core, no more
user upgradable RAM or HDD). Short of a miracle, the Mac Mini is dead or will
be updated with something even worse than the outdated and expensive model
still on sale.

~~~
spiderfarmer
It honestly makes me wonder if I should stick with Apple. Every product I
loved apart from the iPad, iPhone and Macbook Pro has been cancelled or
ignored and these 3 remaining products are updated with such small increments
that I don't think Apple is leading us into the future of computing.

------
weaves
It's awesome to see all the discussion here regarding eero and mesh networking
as a whole!

If you have been waiting to update your home WiFi, there is no better time
than now. I'm excited to share that from Black Friday through Cyber Monday,
you'll be able to find eero at a discount, including $100 off a three pack.
For those that already love Apple products, I'm confident that eero will be a
very comfortable networking solution for you.

We have thousands of happy Apple customers. Plus, if you already use a Time
Capsule for backing up your data or an Airport Express for Airplay, you can
bridge these to an eero network so you can continue to use these features that
may be essential to your current home network.

Let us know if you have any questions! Feel free to give us a call at
1-877-659-2347 or email us at support@eero.com.

------
scarface74
I don't see any reason for the AirPort. I can only think of a few scenarios
with respect to consumers and Wifi:

1\. The router they get from their ISP is good enough, they can get support
for their internet access and their wifi from one place and they don't mind
paying the $7-$10/month. This seems like it would be the easiest for the non-
tech user.

2\. A combined router/cable modem is desired but you don't want to pay
$7-$10/month. Buy a device that is compatible with your cable modem -- again
something that I don't see Apple making.

3\. You want a separate ISP modem and more advanced wifi router -- the only
case that an updated Airport would satisfy.

4\. You want an easy to configure mesh network for better coverage -- buy some
Eero devices.

5\. You want a versatile travel router -- one that can serve as a regular
router (ethernet -> wifi bridge), a wifi->ethernet bridge, a wifi->wifi bridge
(to create a private network from a public network), or an extender. There is
already a $30 router that can accomplish that. I have one of these:

[https://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-TL-WR802N-Wireless-
Repeater-3...](https://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-TL-WR802N-Wireless-
Repeater-300Mbps/dp/B01CVOLGOG?th=1)

~~~
philwelch
6\. You want to back up your Mac, so you buy a Time Capsule.

------
mrlambchop
My assumption is that voice assistants (alexa, google home) and mesh network
access points (ubiquiti, eero, google wifi) will fast converge soon into a
single device.

------
kimshibal
I have a friend at Apple. The wireless team will be moved to Dongle
department.

~~~
kilroy123
Can't tell if sarcasm or real.

------
ceejay
I'm actually pretty disappointed to hear this. With all the known security
vulnerabilities with other routers, and Apple's stand against the surveillance
state, I was 100% certain the only choice I could make for a new wireless
router was going to be Apple.

Now looks like I'm back to the drawing board w/ my research.

------
laughfactory
I'm astonished to hear Apple is abandoning no longer developing monitors and
routers. The only way to understand their behavior is from the accounting and
finance side. Someone in accounting/finance must've pointed out that they
don't make a lot of money making and selling routers and monitors and such. So
it seems like an easy win to drop those lines of the business.

BUT, I suspect this will prove very short-sighted in the long run, and
possibly endanger the company as a whole. The one thing Apple is (it seems)
overlooking is the ecosystem effect. While some may not buy Apple monitors or
routers, many do. Sure they last a long time and you don't need to constantly
buy another one, and there may be viable substitutes, but if you're one of
those people who considers themselves Apple-only (I have a non-techy friend
like this) then eliminating Apple products just reduces their attachment to
all things Apple. Pretty soon they start realizing that, hey, this non-Apple
router works just fine! Hey, this non-Apple monitor works just fine, too! And
the importance of the brand is reduced. Then they inevitably start thinking
about how maybe a non-Apple laptop might be just as good (too) and cost a
boatload less. Or maybe the new Pixel phone is as good as their aging iPhone.
After all, they've heard good things about the camera.

So, yes, in strict accounting terms it may make sense to eliminate product
lines with thin margins and low volume, but on the whole it props up the whole
brand. Personally, I like knowing that I could go buy an Apple monitor. I know
they're exceptional quality, and beautiful to boot. I may not have the cash to
do it now, or even soon, but it's something to look forward to. Same with
their excellent routers. But now? I guess I'll have to keep an eye on what
Microsoft is up to.

It's ironic to me that Apple has lost sight of what supports and nurtures
their brand, while it seems Microsoft has discovered Apple's secret sauce.
Microsoft is creating beautiful expensive products which are almost certainly
thin margins and low volume, but is doing so because of the cachet that comes
from doing so. From the perception that the Microsoft brand is associated with
beautiful, high quality, electronics. This rubs off on everything else they
do. And man, do those new Surface Studios look nice.

I've been gradually moving the whole family to Mac-land, but now I may have to
rethink. It seems Apple has lost touch and is now run by accountants and
analysts--not designers and engineers.

------
rconti
They already abandoned my Airport Express.

It's too old and can't be managed with the new version of the Airport Utility.
The old version (which was very difficult to find) wouldn't run on a modern
MacOS.

Fortunately I have a 10 year old Mac Pro and was able to download the old
version of the software and make it work, but it's just not worth the effort
every time I have to reconfigure it. IMO the Airport Utility software was
already pretty wonky, it was a bit confusing to try to connect to the unit.
You'd have to do a few resets of the device before it would show up.

Once it works, it works GREAT though.

Oh well, I've got all Meraki gear in my house and it works flawlessly. 4k
streaming over wifi, no problem. That said, I was lucky enough to buy a house
wired with cat5, so all of my bandwidth-hungry devices are wired anyway.

Ubiquiti is probably the way to go for most people though. Get rid of the
consumer junk.

~~~
FussyZeus
How old is your Express? I managed my Express from MacOS two days ago.

~~~
mikeash
The original 802.11g AirPort Express only works with the old AirPort Utility.
Which is really unfortunate, because they're perfectly viable otherwise, for
things that don't need speed, or just as a place to plug in some speakers.

~~~
rconti
Yeah, it's a shame because it's a great device. Good reason not to rely on
devices that need proprietary software to configure them, I suppose. Though,
to be honest, I ran into an issue on 2 Linksys routers where the UI was
incompatible with any Mac browser (it threw an error any time you tried to
commit a change), so relying on browser-based UI is not perfect either.

I can't imagine it would have been difficult for Apple to simply retain
compatibility with the old AX; they just chose not to, which is frustrating.

I've not learned my lesson since now I have cloud-dependent Meraki gear :)

~~~
mikeash
The old AirPort Utility actually ran on more recent OSes for a while with some
simple tweaks. And I'm sure the code for the old devices could have been
included in the new versions of AirPort Utility. Frustrating indeed.

You're right that web-based isn't perfect. In my experience, the odds are at
least better.

I am starting to feel like I should just resign myself to considering this
sort of hardware to be disposable, and assume that it'll stop working due to
software obsolescence after a few years, just as surely as if it lets out the
magic smoke one day.

------
digitalneal
From my point of view, the market is saturated with all these startups
offering mesh wifi services that are already "Apple-fied" in terms of
simplicity to setup and activate.

Why bother developing in that space when you can just buy whichever startup
matures to the largest market share? Throw those engineers somewhere else.

------
dvcrn
This is sad. I loved Apple routers and hoped for an upgrade anytime soon.

I know there is enough hate towards Apple here and I will probably still buy
their new 15" Macbook, but I'm hoping for either Apple to get back to what
they did before, or some other company stepping in and taking over the things
Apple stopped doing.

Looking at Google for example: Started building high-end phones (iPhone),
released a pretty good router (Airport), actively pushing chromecast
(AppleTV). What if Google were to make a powerhouse of a laptop that's not
running ChromeOS? Could that be viable?

The next Macbook I buy will hopefully last another 5-6 years, or hopefully
longer. So for me 5-6 years for Apple to build something truly impressive. Who
knows? Maybe Apple really does have a broader vision that we just don't see
yet.

------
phmagic
I'm not sure if this is good or bad news for companies like Eero. In the short
term, this is great news because of less competition for the extremely easy to
use Wi-Fi router, but I have wonder why Apple got out of this business since
they often see technology trends years down the road.

~~~
theluketaylor
Apple should just buy eero with change they can find in the couch. There is a
real benefit to apple's business model to ensure a extremly high quality, easy
to install wifi option exists. The market is so confusing with different
standards and wildly different quality levels between devices. being able to
walk into an apple store and get the one that is guaranteed to just work is
really valuable. Even if an apple owned eero just breaks even, high quality
wifi is so critical to both the mac and ipad product lines it's worth the
investment.

~~~
phmagic
Agreed, it would make Apple more successful in the home than all of their
HomeKit efforts have been so far.

------
mcgrath_sh
To those asking about replacements... I built a home router with about
$150-250 of parts, an old, small in space HD, and an old comouter case I had
laying around. I have wireless access points on 2/3 floors (old Cisco router
for the basement, an N ASUS router for the rest of the house). I used PF Sense
on the box. I have wired internet on as much as I can and wish I could use it
for more. I don't understand the desire for everything to be wireless. My TVs,
desktops, gaming consoles, etc. do not move.

I have never been happier with my internet setup. The only time I have had
issues was when FIOS was out. The only restarts I have had to do was when my
power went out. It has been close to two years now and this is the least
amount of maintenance I have ever had to do.

~~~
JohnTHaller
Quite a few folks are living in places where they aren't allowed to start
making holes in walls or between floors to run network cables.

~~~
mcgrath_sh
Aah, that is completely fair. I am lucky in that I can run those wires. A
scenario where someone couldn't didnt cross my mind. Thanks for pointing it
out!

------
darklajid
Not affiliated (but a customer): I will probably go with a Turris router for
friends and family, whenever they ask me for help.

Previously I tried to find a cheap OpenWRT based router, but then I kinda
inherited the burden of supporting that: Initial configuration is non-trivial
even with Luci, but that's a one-off thing and it usually Just Worked
afterwards. And started to bit-rot, because I certainly didn't leave remote
access for me to update the thing and had no inclination to do that either.

Enter Turris: A powerful router based on OpenWRT. Automatic updates included.
For basic setups you get a really, really easy UI, for advanced stuff you can
still open Luci or ssh in.

------
Khaine
I'm getting really frustrated by Apple's attitude to the Mac. Apple let key
product lines stagnate, let the ecosystem wither and die (see monitors and now
airport).

They are building an ecosystem around the apple watch (see all the watch
bands, and iOS), but at the same time killing all of the supporting ecosystem
to macOS.

Whats more frustrating is that apple does not outline its vision for macOS so
we all have to divine what they f __k they are doing. They fire the head of
automation, and the more changes they make like this, the lest I 'm willing to
trust Apple with the future of my computer. Apple is slowly eroding the trust
with its users.

------
douche
Interesting to see all the love for AirPorts here. In my experience, they've
been pretty garbage, and it was a great relief when we finally ditched them
and bought some TP-Link equipment instead, and now we have far less trouble
with the office wifi.

------
computator
> _Apple shares rose 0.9 percent to $111.07 at 11:03 a.m. in New York Monday._

I wish business articles would cease the silly habit of quoting the stock
price as if it has anything to do with the story. They're implying that the
shares rose because Apple dropped wireless routers.

A 1% change in the stock price is completely normal and random day-to-day
fluctuation for any large company. Even if it were a 5% change, you still
couldn't say what caused it unless you went out and spoke to the buyers and
sellers. It could be due to something completely unrelated like the whole
market experiencing a rally or a sell off.

------
optimuspaul
I hope they still make an airplay device that can take over for my Airport
express.

~~~
molecule
For Airplay, I replaced my Airport Express w/ a RaspberryPi running Shairport
a few years ago. Works much better, perhaps because the Pi is on wired
ethernet, for one less streaming signal over the wireless (?).

[https://computers.tutsplus.com/articles/using-a-raspberry-
pi...](https://computers.tutsplus.com/articles/using-a-raspberry-pi-as-an-
airplay-receiver--mac-54316)

[https://github.com/abrasive/shairport](https://github.com/abrasive/shairport)

~~~
mahyarm
You can connect an express on ethernet too, and it works pretty good for me.
And I don't have to maintain a rasberry pi.

------
JamiePrentice
I love the reassuring sound of my hard drive in my Airport Timecapsule
spinning up when I got back to my desk at home.

The Timecapsule was pretty much plug and forget, easy to use. Now when it
comes time to retire the Timecapsule I'll have to look outwith the Apple
ecosystem and find something else, tinker with its configuration (more than
likely for hours) and hope it continues to support my devices with firmware
updates.

I'm sure my QNAP NAS has Timecapsule functionality but I'm new to the NAS
world and I don't think my onsite backup is something that I feel comfortable
trusting with it yet.

------
sigzero
What are some good alternatives? I have the last "tower" version.

~~~
mercurysmessage
Netgear and Asus make good routers. Also last I checked I believe Netgear had
the fastest wireless router on the market. Someone please correct me if I'm
wrong!

~~~
izacus
Both Netgear and ASUS AC1900 routers are good, you just need to buy off the
top of the line (~80-120EUR price range).

~~~
danieldk
How regularly and how long do they provide security updates?

(No attack, just wondering...)

~~~
croon
I have an Asus RT-AC87U, which I bought in 2014, and it gets a few updates a
year. Not sure how long they'll keep up.

Ok, just checked RT-AC66U as well, which is from 2012, and it still gets
updates too.

~~~
ryao
Asus has semi-unified firmware for product line. It makes keeping things up to
date easier. Quality went down hill on the RT-N66U (wireless instability), and
rather than stick with older firmware that had more security holes than I
could continue to track or try to fix it, I went with Ubiquiti equipment.

~~~
croon
Ah, that's a shame. I have nothing but good things to say about mine, but if
issues like that happens in the future I'll likely move to merlin/tomato/some
wrt (if the hardware is still viable).

------
adolph
Hopefully they will open up PowerNap backups [1] to non-Apple hardware. For my
next home router I'd like to go the scooter computer [2] route, but having to
have the MacBook open and awake to back up is obnoxious.

1\. [https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204032](https://support.apple.com/en-
us/HT204032)

2\. [https://blog.codinghorror.com/the-scooter-
computer/](https://blog.codinghorror.com/the-scooter-computer/)

~~~
sigjuice
Where does it say that PowerNap backups require Apple storage?

------
tomovo
I wonder what would happen if Adobe released Photoshop for Linux. Or if
Ableton for Linux was released. I'm pretty sure those would make them try A
LOT harder on the desktop front.

------
jstsch
Hmm, since there is currently a great Airport with 802.11ac support out there,
what would Apple develop right now? Might it be that they'll come out with a
new product when 802.11ax is due to ship, which might be a few years down the
road?

For the rest, I'll repeat what everyone says. The Airport is an essential part
of the Apple ecosystem. It just works. I'd be surprised if they actually drop
the product.

------
lowken10
Sometimes people make the mistake thinking that people want the perfect
solution when often good enough is fine. One great example is .mp3 vs lossless
audio compression. The average listener (myself included) don't care about
about perfect audio. We are perfectly happy with good enough.

Wireless networking falls into this category. Yes a wired home network would
be faster by for the vast majority tasks wireless is fine.

------
mozumder
I'm surprised Apple could never figure out a way to make a profitable wi-fi
router. Every household needs one, so what prevented them from differentiating
their products from generic routers? It really could have been a hugely
profitable product.

I would have gone with a server approach to a wi-fi router, one that does
everything in MacOS Server - email, VPN, web, etc..

~~~
csomar
Here is my guess: Your average iPhone user probably have never heard about the
airport router.

------
ausjke
Really do not like the ISP routers, that bundle the DSL/Cable-model with a
Wireless-router together. Just let the modem be modems, and let the router be
router, this way you can use any router model you prefer and do not need get
stuck with the ISP ones.

------
zanybear
I don't understand why this cannot be a differentiation for a product
competing with Amazon Echo and Google Home, certainly you can install one in
each room and will provide better networking and see your presence and respond
in context.

------
olssonm
What's next, the iMac? =(

~~~
rcarmo
I honestly wouldn't be surprised.

------
mixmastamyk
Unhappy, settled on the airport express a while ago as a nice little box that
was secure and kept out of the way. No faith in other companies to deliver a
streamlined experience without vulnerabilities.

------
rabboRubble
Much late to the convo...

Although my old Apple router is still chugging along perfectly well, I'm
bummed about this change. First router I have ever felt 100% comfortable with
the configuration and operation.

------
shmerl
I always used routers that allow installing customizable OS, so Apple was
never a good choice. Something like Linksys WRTs today are way more
interesting than whatever routers Apple made.

------
tedmiston
This seems consistent with their decision to get out of displays.

------
rhelsing
This sucks.. Of the apple routers I've owned they have "just worked".. which
is the best feature of any router I have ever encountered IMO.

------
TYPE_FASTER
They are probably looking at competitors entering the space. Starry, Google,
and more are entering the $200 "we'll take care of that for you" market.

------
XorNot
I've never really liked AirPorts, but they were featurful. Honestly though, if
Ubiquity would slap a Web UI on their stuff, they'd take-over the market.

------
themagician
They may just throw a router into the next AppleTV. AppleTV is already
positioned as the "center of your home" for HomeKit-enabled devices.

------
redial
This is the way the world (of Apple) ends, not with a bang but with a whimper.
One for each unit that turns off the lights...

~~~
kalleboo
When Steve Jobs came back, he killed off a bunch of accessories - printers,
cameras, Newton, etc etc. Apple isn't in dire straits as they were them, but
just like how back then their printers and cameras weren't innovative, neither
are their routers now

Killing off accessories is fine. But if they're not focusing on that anymore,
and no new Macs in ages, what the hell ARE they focusing on?

~~~
uptown
iPhones, watch bands, $300 books and iPhones. Oh, and also iPhones.

~~~
kalleboo
Yeah the book thing kind of ruins any supportive argument doesn't it

~~~
lostapathy
The book is probably a case of somebody working on it to make a handful of
copies to satisfy somebody's ego. Selling more copies is just gravy.

------
Razengan
I wonder if this has anything to do with agencies like the NSA "requesting"
Apple to put backdoors in their future routers..

------
whywhywhywhy
Worrying that they outlived displays and Mac Pros

------
tinus_hn
Time for our daily 2 minutes of Apple hate!

------
fiatpandas
I have a feeling that we'll see new wifi-emitting hubs from Apple in the near-
term. They just won't be what we conventionally think of as routers, and will
feature a host of new features to support a new ecosystem of Apple products
for the connected home. e.g. thermostats. The new centralized hubs will be
different enough in concept from airports to support abandoning the airport
line completely.

------
dictum
Wireless routers don't sell like hot cakes, but this was never the point of
Apple making them.

Just try to imagine Steve Jobs setting up a generic router.

* * *

Now imagine him searching for a wireless router and seeing some Google product
in the top rankings.

(EDIT: I tried to play with the "Steve wouldn't allow this" trope and failed —
removing it to reduce the noise)

~~~
madeofpalk
> If there's one thing Steve wouldn't allow is this move.

Can we _please_ not bring this up. What makes you think you know anything
about what Steve Jobs would have liked?

~~~
dictum
I'm sorry. I don't like this argument either (it's used for every minor
annoyance related to Apple) and I'm not comfortable ascribing intentions to a
deceased person.

------
kirkdouglas
Do they still sell Time Capsule?

~~~
grzm
There's still a product page.

[http://www.apple.com/shop/product/ME182LL/A/airport-time-
cap...](http://www.apple.com/shop/product/ME182LL/A/airport-time-capsule-3tb)

I can imagine that they would want people to migrate to iCloud. That would be
less helpful for those that don't have a (reliable) internet connection.

~~~
Tepix
I have a great connection but I don't want my data in the cloud if I can avoid
it.

------
KiDD
This is wild speculation...

Why would Apple need to upgrade the AirPort Extreme anyways?

------
peterwwillis
Dear Apple users,

There are still wifi routers that you can use. Which one you choose makes
almost no difference whatsoever. Just like with Apple, you can go out and buy
a random wifi router, take it out of the box and plug it in, and it will just
work. Stop freaking out.

Love, the non-Apple universe.

