
Death in the clouds: The problem of bodies on Everest (2015) - abhi3
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20151008-the-graveyard-in-the-clouds-everests-200-dead-bodies
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elcapitan
I don't like how the first graphic splits into "climbers" and "Sherpas". If
anything, the Sherpas are the true climbers, as they do that all their life,
and their physical abilities are probably up to olympic athlete level in most
cases. The "climbers" should be labelled "western tourists" (except for the
mountain guides).

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williamgb
Wouldn't the label "western tourists" be wildly inaccurate though?

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_died_climbi...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_died_climbing_Mount_Everest)

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elcapitan
"Rich tourists" would be more appropriate, yes.

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kevin_thibedeau
> The ITBP, however, says that Paljor’s body is hopelessly stuck, and that
> anyway, they can’t guarantee that it actually belongs to Paljor – or even to
> an Indian for that matter

Looking at the pictures it appears that someone has rolled Paljor over as you
can see him resting on both sides with his jacket less faded on the most
recently exposed side. Clearly not that stuck.

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everly
The article goes on to say that he's since been removed altogether so, yeah,
not that stuck at all.

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aorloff
This seems like such an obvious use for robots, and given the explosion of
robots in delivery and other fields now, I'm curious if anyone has tried it ?
Why can't battery powered robots, with sleds, controlled from base camp, clean
up the mountain - picking up the dead and perhaps some trash too ?

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duskwuff
1) You are underestimating how difficult the terrain is. The only types of
robot that'd have a chance would be some of the legged ones from Boston
Dynamics, and even they probably wouldn't be up to the challenge.

2) Lithium-ion batteries perform poorly at low temperatures. And there's very
little electricity available on the mountain at all, let alone near the summit
where a lot of the bodies are.

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rdl
We can make robots that work in space. We can surely make things which work in
this environment. Either heat them, or use thermal batteries for power when
needed. Also might be an interesting application for compressed air.

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JadeNB
> We can make robots that work in space. We can surely make things which work
> in this environment.

Space is a way less challenging environment than mountains for robots, which
are well equipped to handle, say, lack of air and gravity, but poorly equipped
to handle rough and rocky terrain and lots of gravity.

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kaffeemitsahne
As an aside, pretty baffling that people go to all the trouble to travel
through such a unique, pristine environment and still won't bother to clean up
their rubbish (just to be clear, actual garbage, not human remains).

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darklajid
I'm clueless about this whole process. Where would they put that? Carry it up
and down again?

Is that feasible?

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calvano915
Sherpas trek up and down various parts of the climb dozens of times for each
group that hires them setting up the next camps, routes, etc. There are people
paid for cleanup who also do similar.

The tourists/climbers could do it but aren't as acclimated to the environment.
Paying someone else to do it is probably the best way to ensure reliable
cleanup and safety of the tourists/climbers.

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gyrgtyn
Does it really matter if there is trash and dead bodies up there? Who's
bothered or poisoned by this? Other rich people? Is there an ecosystem up
there?

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has2k1
Here is an excerpt from "The Tragedy of the Commons" paper [1]

"""

The pollution problem is a consequence of population. It did not much matter
how a lonely American frontiersman disposed of his waste. "Flowing water
purifies itself every 10 miles," my grandfather used to say, and the myth was
near enough to the truth when he was a boy, for there were not too many
people. But as population became denser, the natural chemical and biological
recycling processes became overloaded, calling for a redefinition of property
rights.

"""

The excerpt seems to convey the same opinion, but if read the paper you get to
see it from many more view points.

1\.
[http://science.sciencemag.org/content/162/3859/1243.full](http://science.sciencemag.org/content/162/3859/1243.full)

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wodenokoto
That doesn't answer the question, except if you are implying that populations
are going to move to Everest in the future.

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has2k1
Can you imagine a scenario in the future where there would be a need to do an
activity at the summit of Everest?

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wodenokoto
No, I can't.

What is your point?

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has2k1
Without significant effort, we are not so good at a judging what resources
that are not essential now yet will be in the future. Even the example, I'm
going to give is lacking because it is rooted in today's technological
activities.

For example, how would the stuff left on Everest affect the remote sensing
requirements of the future? Perhaps there is more, but we cannot have thoughts
about the questions we do not know to how to ask yet. This view point should
not be straw-maned as objecting to any and everything, it is simply
cautionary.

In summary, in coming to conclusions we have to factor in our lack of
sufficient imagination.

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navidvulo
I do find it ridiculous that hikers are allowed to attempt the climb, and that
if they die on the climb their bodies are allowed to litter the landscape
forever.

When you attempt a climb, it should be required that you pay a deposit that
will pay for 1) removal of all trash left by you assuming that everything you
carry becomes trash and 2) recovery and removal of your body in case you die
on the climb.

Since mostly wealthy people do these climbs it shouldn't be a problem at all.

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jessaustin
Your proposal is basically that on the event of a rich person's death, several
poor people should risk their own lives to commemorate the way that he died.
Is anyone surprised that isn't how it works?

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mikeash
Poor people are already "required" (i.e. paid enough money to do it willingly)
to risk their lives helping rich people get up and down the mountain. This
doesn't seem substantially different.

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nradov
Hauling a heavy dead body down the mountain is a lot tougher and more
dangerous than carrying some extra oxygen bottles and food. In the death zone
the porters are already working at the outer limit of human performance.

~~~
webtechgal
This. Never actually been in the death zone - my highest has been just under
7km, but it was hard enough carrying my own stuff up and down.

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herewulf
When I climb a mountain (and I've climbed plenty), I don't want to see people,
living or dead. It detracts from the experience. Everest? No thanks.

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swayvil
I must admit that my first thought was corpse-looting. Also a lifetime supply
of free food.

