
The CHIP Is a $9 Computer That Can Almost Do It All - Errorcod3
http://techcrunch.com/2015/05/08/the-chip-is-a-9-computer-that-can-almost-do-it-all/
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dmitrygr
The CPU they use is famous for lack of GPL sources and lack of stability when
using their GPL-non-compliant binary blobs

YMWV! (Your mileage _WILL_ vary)

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bri3d
Additionally, they use ARM Mali GPU IP which is much less open and has far
lower-quality drivers (IMHO) than the VideoCore GPU used on Raspberry Pi and
friends.

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pcwalton
I've had a lot more trouble with VideoCore IV drivers than Mali. In my
experience VideoCore has massive overhead on each call to glDrawElements(),
making it almost unusable for even small numbers of render state changes. When
trying to work around that by batching more aggressively, I ended up with more
than a half dozen or so varyings, which caused the drivers to happily crash
the entire board.

~~~
bri3d
Mali has massive driver stalls as soon as you start touching VBOs directly (ex
to make dynamic VBOs using glBufferData). There are also a lot of fun and easy
ways to shoot yourself in the foot and cause the driver to exhaust memory.

I think mobile GPU drivers in general are pretty much a wasteland, but at
least VideoCore is a documented wasteland.

~~~
pcwalton
Fair enough. It's really sad how we have enormous GPU power available in the
mobile hardware, but in practice the drivers hold them back so much that that
GPU power is really limited.

~~~
TD-Linux
There is a lot of work being done on the Mesa NIR-based VideoCore driver. I'll
be exciting to see what becomes of it.
[http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/VC4/](http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/VC4/)

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mrb
A lot of people wonder how this can be done for $9, but as it was pointed out
tablets based on the same specs (A13 SoC, 4GB storage, 512MB RAM) can already
be found starting at $30 [1]. Take off the display, case, battery, camera,
cable, charger, and yes it is certain the CHIP can be manufactured for
approximately $9.

Also keep in mind the company doesn't need to make profits selling the CHIP
itself. Their business plan seems to be to sell it at cost while making money
on the plethora of accessories: the LiPO battery is $10, the VGA Adapter is
$10, the HDMI adapter is $15, etc. Also they might try to make a $0.50 or
$1.00 profit here and there on shipping costs (the FAQ even has an entry
"international shipping is too expensive").

Enjoy your $9 computer. 15 years ago a machine with these specs would have
cost 1 month of an engineer's salary... I love technological progress!

[1] [http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-A13-Single-Core-8GB-Google-
Android...](http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-A13-Single-Core-8GB-Google-
Android-4-0-Touch-Tablet-PC-MID-WIFI-Dual-Camera-/321747700995)

~~~
noblethrasher
> Enjoy your $9 computer. 15 years ago a machine with these specs would have
> cost 1 month of an engineer's salary... I love technological progress!

I was about to dispute that statement, because I remember that used Dell
Latitude C600 laptops (with 512 RAM and 20 GB HDD) were going for about $700
on eBay around 2002. But, that same laptop cost over $4000 just two years
prior. So, indeed, that could have been a month's wages for an engineer.
Still, it's amazing that something can go from "prohibitively expensive" to
"impulse buy" in the span of 3 years.

~~~
mrb
For comparable specs, on top of the $4000 you need to add:

\- 4GB of _solid-state_ storage. This alone was $4000 for 4GB in 2000:
[http://www.jcmit.com/flash2014.htm](http://www.jcmit.com/flash2014.htm)

\- Wireless adapter. They were very rare and expensive back in 2000 but I
can't find exact price information

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mplewis
They're claiming better specs than the RPi Model A (512 MB RAM, 1 GHz CPU)
with more features (Bluetooth, Wi-Fi on board) for $9 vs the RPi's $25.

I highly doubt they will be able to produce the CHIP for $9/unit.

~~~
bravo22
As do I. They might be able to pull it off with discounts from their suppliers
but I imagine it is difficult to build a sustainable business around that
price.

Even assuming 20K volumes:

Current market price for 4GB of flash is about $2.50[1]; 512MB of RAM is about
$2[1]. Processor -- even if something like A33 -- would be about $4. You have
another $2 of regulator, connectors, etc. The PCB is about $1.75 in volume and
assembly would be $1. That's $13.25.

Even if somehow they manage to make this thing really really cheap and get
below that price, let's assume $7 or 50% of magical discount on top of current
volume pricing, that's not much margin. Even if you sell 100K of these a year
(which is very high) you've made only 200K in profit!

EDIT: I forgot about BLE+WiFI -- add $4!

Some are saying PCB pricing is high: I'm basing that on 2.3"x3.3" 6 layer
board with 8 mils holes, and 4 mil clearance and ENIG finish.

[1] I'm basing this on recent 50K purchases but here is a more public source:
[http://www.dramexchange.com/](http://www.dramexchange.com/)

~~~
bri3d
They're using AllWinner A13, which is quite old now. There's a good chance
that since they mention frequently "working closer with AllWinner," AllWinner
are dumping their old A13 stock onto CHIP at fire-sale prices, or that
AllWinner are moving A13 even further downmarket.

I think your PCB and assembly costs are a bit high, as well.

I agree that their margins can't be good.

~~~
bravo22
It looks like R8 which is based on A13, most likely PoP because I don't see a
DRAM or NAND flash in their pic.

PCB might sound high, but it isn't standard 8/8/10 spec PCB. It will have
smaller holes and tighter tolerances.

~~~
bri3d
You're right, and it must be PoP as I don't see any RAM in the picture either.
AllWinner must be cutting them a hell of a deal, or (as others have
speculated) they must be trying to subsidize the main board with other
products.

~~~
bravo22
I think it is a combination of both. But even then I can't imagine profit of
more than $1-$2 per board AT BEST.

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adricnet
I backed the Kickstarter. Looks like a really neat device with interesting
capabilities and Debian :)

[https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598272670/chip-the-
wor...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598272670/chip-the-worlds-
first-9-computer)

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mintplant
I'm more interested in the PocketCHIP than anything else. For a while now I've
been trying to find a handheld computer (with a physical keyboard) that won't
break the bank. But I'm worried about the quality of the CHIP itself... guess
I'll see how this pans out first.

~~~
ansible
The last good one that I know of was the Sidekick 4G from Samsung. Great
keyboard. In sure you can get a used one cheap these days. Put Connectbot on
it and you've got a small handheld terminal.

Another option is the Motorola Photon Q.

~~~
fragmede
> Motorola Photon Q.

Sadly, that was already old when it was released as new in _2012_. Given 3
years of wear and tear, I was sad when I finally had to trade mine in for a
keyboard-less glass brick.

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ansible
Yeah, I was still considering it at the time, even though I was on at&t,
instead of Sprint. There were some form posts of guys depopulating the chip
SIM, and wiring in a SIM card holder. The thought of doing that to an
expensive new phone and still being sick with 2G speeds stopped me from moving
forward.

I've looked at some BT keyboards with my glass brick, but the keyboards
themselves were terrible.

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ralmidani
I wonder if this would make a good server. Aside from storage, it has specs
comparable to a $5/month Digital Ocean droplet:
[https://www.digitalocean.com/pricing/](https://www.digitalocean.com/pricing/)

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cwyers
> The CHIP has already blown past its $50,000 goal and is now at about
> $200,000. They expect to ship in one year and they’re a Haxlr8r company so
> they have some solid manufacturing support.

TechCrunch, why on earth do you think I know what "a Haxlr8r company" is?

~~~
anigbrowl
I hadn't heard of it either but I found it easy to guess, and Google is only a
moment away.

(One Moment later) Yep, just as I thought: a HArdware aCCeLRATOR, like YC but
for hardware.

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jgome
The anonabox was criticized for, among other reasons, having the "open-source
hardware" logo... its hardware was as "open-source" as of this, yet I can't
see the criticisms in this case.

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bravo22
Dug up some details on the R8 used in the CHIP. It doesn't look like it'll
have much juice. There are comparable chips out there (made by Atmel for
example) in terms of speed/performance.

Single Cortex-A8 (don't disclose cache sizes) DDR2/3 up to 530MHz 16-bit bus
512MB Max capacity Support NAND/SPI Nor/SD Card 1080p30 decode, 720p30 encode
H.264

They don't disclose the clock but can't imagine it is high.

[1]
[http://www.allwinnertech.com/en/clq/R_series/2015/0514/6066....](http://www.allwinnertech.com/en/clq/R_series/2015/0514/6066.html)

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silasb
No one here is talking about the PocketChip, which I think is the coolest
thing. If it's hackable it will be really interesting to see what people do
with it.

~~~
nilleo
I totally agree. When looking at the Kickstarter campaign and reading through
the content my thoughts were "neat" but I wasn't particularly _excited_. When
I got to PocketCHIP part however, I thought "oh that's kinda cool I guess",
and then my hoarder side starting thinking "oooo think of the possibilities of
a packaged, portable computer like this!".

I'll definitely be keeping an eye on how the PocketCHIP turns out.

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jasiek
It's actually $29 per unit with shipping. Nothing to see here, move along. At
$9 a piece they would make very little on each board.

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karmakaze
The product shot is rather contrived. An actual CRT using composite video
juxtaposed with wireless dual analog joystick controllers.

~~~
kondro
I think composite video is built into the chip.

~~~
karmakaze
This is true. Who today has a CRT that they care to use? Perhaps the $9 price
tag or $24 with HDMI _product_ is contrived.

If it had Ethernet or USB, it might be useful for experimenting with
distributed systems.

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bcg1
"The CHIP Is _a fictional_ $9 Computer That _doesn 't exist and_ Can Almost Do
_Nothing At_ All"

Just in case someone feels like fixing the headline.

