
Meet the American Nomads of Walmart's Plentiful Parking Lots - kposehn
http://www.wired.com/rawfile/2013/11/walmart-parking-lots
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austenallred
I lived in my car for three months this summer in Palo Alto as we were getting
a startup off the ground, then when I headed back toward the Valley a few
weeks ago for startup school I decided to relive it all again - from sleeping
in my car to showering at the YMCA.

On the drive over from Utah I stopped in Elko, Nevada to sleep for the night,
and as I had before I found my "spot" in Palo Alto, I drove off into a less
populous street, crawled in the back of my Civic and tried to look
inconspicuous.

This time, however, I woke up to a police officer shining a flashlight in my
window. After I explained who I was and gave him my license to look me up, he
said, "Really you should just go sleep in the walmart parking lot." Since I
had to go to the bathroom anyway, I decided to do just that.

It was after midnight when I pulled in, and there were probably a dozen cars
and RVs in the darker section of the parking lot. Having lived in a car, it's
pretty easy to notice the signs of someone who is set up for permanent
residence as opposed to an overnight stay. I got out of there early in the
morning, but I estimate 10 of the 12 cars in the Walmart parking lot in Elko,
Nevada were occupied by permanent residents.

Go to any parking lot (especially hospital parking lots) late at night and
look for windshield covers on both the front and back windshields, curtains or
rods for hanging clothes, ultra-portable bathrooms or cars full of clothes,
and you'll realize the nomadic and/or homeless population is much larger than
you previously supposed.

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recuter
I'm not from the US but I plan on doing a cross country adventure at some
point. Let me ask you this; If my vehicle of choice was a delivery van of
recent vintage with an artistic decal of a well known soda brand, would that
help with avoiding such encounters?

At worst I could claim to be an Andy Warhol fan, would that fly?

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maxerickson
If you are stressed about it, there really are Walmarts pretty much
everywhere. There's also lots and lots of campgrounds that are something like
$15 a night (you can save that much fueling a smaller vehicle...).

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logn
Yes, campgrounds and also backwoods camping. Many of these are government run
(state and national parks) and many others are privately run. If you want to
live in the backwoods, most parks have rules you need to follow, such as
moving your tent every so often, disposing properly of waste, restrictions on
lighting fires, and obtaining hunting/fishing licenses (meaning: do not carry
fishing rod without a license).

Also, on every highway there are rest-stops and trucker rest areas. Some of
these have pay-per-use showers and most have a parking lot you can park
overnight in and free toilets.

The national/state parks are beautiful and are very welcoming to visitors.

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dcposch
In 2001/02, my family spent two years travelling around North America. All
four of us lived in a bus-style Monaco RV. Instead of middle school, I was
home-schooled by my mom. We drove as far north as Alaska and as far south as
Belize and had adventures---it was a great time.

I just wanted to say: Walmart deserves credit for being very cool toward
travellers. We spent many nights parked for free in their truck spots.

Walmart gets a lot of hate here in the bay area, but I really like them. If I
may wax philosophical for a minute... I see Walmart as basic infrastructure.
They are everywhere; they're always open; they sell everything, nearly at
cost; they employ 2.2 million people, many of which would otherwise be on
welfare or disability; and when you need a place to spend the night, even if
you find yourself in Winnemucca at 1am with a 40-foot long vehicle and no RV
park reservation--they're always there for you.

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rjbond3rd
> many of which would otherwise be on welfare

I get what you're saying, but Walmart employment is (alas) very compatible
with being a welfare recipient, and rather than preventing welfare, Walmart is
actually subsidized by it (at least according to a recently popular theory).

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protomyth
The local Walmart pays better than the local grocery store or any of the small
businesses on main street. There is a reason that so many apply.

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code_duck
Sure, now that Walmart has crushed those businesses, it can afford to pay a
little more than they can.

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protomyth
Those businesses are still around, it is pretty easy given what Walmart
actually sells. Amazon is more a pain for a lot of those businesses.

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code_duck
The ones that are still around, are still around. There's been plenty of
documentation of walmart's negative effect on small cities' retail,
manufacturing and tax bases.

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protomyth
And that documentation would be (the manufacturing and tax base info would be
interesting)? I see it quoted a lot, but I don't see much in the way of
independent studies (and I am disinclined to believe union studies as much as
I won't believe Walmart internal reports).

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code_duck
Walmart's practice of locating stores just outside of municipalities to avoid
local sales tax affects sales tax revenues.

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protomyth
Got the statistics on that with the number of other businesses that followed
the same strategy?

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code_duck
Alas, this is not something I actively research or claim to have expertise
regarding.

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clarebear
Some people love to hate Walmart (and poor labor practices give good reason).
However, providing a space to sleep and not get arrested is an example of
something that is probably good for the nation's poor (as well as RV
enthusiasts). Apparently Walmart is also one of the first places that half-way
house parolees can get a pass to go. If Walmart is acting a portal for
transitional people to rejoin or create there own (harmless) society, that is
a tangible social good.

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aioprisan
I'm taking the cynical route here and think that it's more of a ploy to get
even more customers into their stores. What does it take them to keep the lots
open/secured? Is that more than the money they would get from those people who
will have to get water, food and other supplies in the morning? Most
definitely. Would it cost them to kick out people and possibly turn this into
a negative media campaign? Absolutely.

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mistermann
ploy noun 1\. a cunning plan or action designed to turn a situation to one's
own advantage.

cunning adjective 1\. having or showing skill in achieving one's ends by
deceit or evasion.

Does Walmart have to be considered evil in literally every action? I'd fully
expect they're hoping they will make some additional sales from overnight
campers, I can't imagine this wouldn't be fairly obvious to any non-cynical
observer of the situation. And why shouldn't they - they make a profit from
regular non-camping customers, so I can't understand how making the same
profit from people who just received a free place to camp out for the night
could somehow be considered worse. Seems like a classic win-win situation to
me.

~~~
aioprisan
Oh I wasn't saying that it's not a win-win situation, just that some of the
comments were saying how Walmart was being generous and good, while a pretty
simple benefit analysis tells us that Walmart is making real money off of
this, which in the case of such a big player and their history as an employer,
self-interest is the only driver that counts.

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001sky
Walmart's biz model is to be open 24 hours. Its stupid to kick out people in
the middle of the night who are going be be shopping during the off hours
period. People sleeping in a walmart PL are not there taking up space in isle
7 during rush hour shopping hours. So, from that point, its a ratinal thing to
do. But also from a cultural point of view, its more common than you think, in
remote areas, to need to come in to resupply (with say camping gear, food,
clothes, etc). And if Wally world can save these people (like hunters, campers
etc) 100 bucks for a hotel, they're probably going to increase the chances of
them spending that 100 bucks inside.

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ExpiredLink
> _" We sold everything we have and decided to find, as we put it, our
> American dream," says Josiane Simpson. She, Jared Holfeltz, and their son
> Gabriel are currently living out of their car._

The American dream is a delusion that makes people pursue wrong objectives.

~~~
qq66
Notice that she said "our American dream," not "the American dream." She's not
talking about a picket fence and a dog, she's talking about writing her own
life's story.

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vincie
I did much the same thing in Australia for nigh on 18 months. Good thing is,
in the outback you can pull up pretty much anywhere, drive a little into the
side of the road, watch the spectacular sunsets and go to sleep. Bad thing is,
there are lots of brown snakes (deadly, but diurnal) and scorpions (very
painful, nocturnal). In the big cities, I camped out near university campuses
and truck stops for access to bathrooms etc. Most seaside towns have "surf
livesaver" clubs with showers, sometimes with hot water. You could of course
just swim in the ocean. I also fashioned a shower out of a hose that I would
attach to the taps in public toilets if I was desperate for one. I miss that
lifestyle.

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pdelbarba
This article doesn't seem to cover much but I'd be curious to know the
implications of this. Is this very common? How long do people stay? Are these
people making trips or living there? I've heard a lot about crime occurring in
Walmart parking lots, does this have any effect?

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VLM
"I've heard a lot about crime occurring in Walmart parking lots, does this
have any effect?"

My parents RVed around the country when they semi-retired and occasionally got
stuck at walmart (Reservations? Sir I am sorry but I have no record of you
ever having made reservations... etc)

Real criminals like empty lots and good numerical odds, so its extremely
dangerous to be in a deserted shopping mall lot completely alone except for
the crooks at 3am, or at a park all alone, or anything like that. Its not just
walmart, some campgrounds are pretty sketchy during the empty work week. On
the other hand trivial "crime" is much worse at walmart if by crime you mean
"turned the radio up a little too loud at 8pm to cover sound of having sex"
which might technically be a noise violation, but its not exactly armed
carjacking or murder.

RVers talk a lot to other RVers and from what I heard from my parents, the
culture is very bovine, stay in the herd for safety. The more people in the
lot sleeping, the safer the lot is by definition. You have to have serious
guts, or be a police sting, to be the only vehicle in the lot.

I would imagine the homeless are about the same. They want/need a good nights
sleep and a screaming crime victim is not going to help them sleep, so there's
more than a little self policing. There's ten guys here sleeping every night,
and tonight there's one outsider checking door handles and prowling, well,
there's going to be ten really pissed off guys if the interloper succeeds, so
you do the math on what happens to the one interloper...

There is also a lot of bias in that RV national park touring means visiting
civilized rural areas not uncivilized urban areas. So that means a lot of
hunters and concealed carry and an armed society is a polite society and all
that stuff. So a rural Idaho walmart parking lot where 10% of the people carry
is likely near infinitely safer than a Chicago walmart in the bad part of town
where all the victims are disarmed. As such my parents experience visiting
national and state parks may not be representative of urban ghetto walmart
parking lots. The experience of a cow herd in the presence of wolves varies
greatly if some random selection of the cows have razor sharp teeth and pointy
horns vs a herd where everybody knows all the cows are completely defenseless
so go have as much "fun" as you want.

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marincounty
I applaud Wallmart. They have been allowing this for awhile.

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jmerton
I'm an engineering tech (land development) who lost nearly everything in the
crash. I "lived" (slept) in my truck, which has a custom cap made for the
purpose, for four months this spring. It's not a cheap way to live. It takes
fuel to get food, to take a morning dump, to go to a place to park for the
night. If you're not somewhere you can cook, you're stuck with carry out.
Still, it was an experience I in no way regret. I learned a lot about myself,
which, for me, is a spiritual thing. (See other comment about "Sleeping the
American Dream). Here are some tips: Pennsylvania numbered roads (PA & US) all
have pull-over spots; I was never once harassed by the police in these places.
The Potomac River, due to the National Park proximity, is absolutely to be
avoided. Interstate rest stops are only good for one night at a time. There
are also what I call "late in - early out" spots everywhere: bars with off-
street parking, hotel lots, repair garages, state forests with hunters
parking. A little imagination will give you other ideas. I've over-stayed my
welcome with a friend (while I developed an idea that I could not seem to
market successfully.) and will be back to daily pay ($42 a day) and sleeping
in my truck for the winter. Its not really that bad. It can actually be an
adventure at times; it all depends on your attitude.

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code_duck
I've slept in Walmart parking lots more than a few times on my extensive road
travels. There are few choices for brief naps out on the road, and while still
somewhat dicey Walmart is safer than rest stops or random roadsides. If it's
after 4 am, hotels won't even rent you a room (too close to checkout time,
they say. And why can't they just let you check out at say, 6? Or a steady 15
hours after checkin?).

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SteveGerencser
My folks RV half the year. Walmart is their one night stopover destination of
choice. There are books out there that tell you which Walmarts are best to
stay at and the love it for quick grab some sleep before pushing nights.

They make great rest stops too. Dad hops in back to get a nap while mom heads
inside to do a little shopping or get some food at the deli counter.

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busterzzz
In picture three, that chick in the green shirt is pretty hot.

