
Dressing for the Surveillance Age - jbegley
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/03/16/dressing-for-the-surveillance-age
======
DoreenMichele
_When you come from a small town, as I do, where everyone knows your face,
public anonymity—the ability to disappear into a crowd—is one of the great
pleasures of city living._

The thing is that most of humankind lived in small tribes or villages,
everyone knew everyone's business and privacy practically didn't exist. The
anonymity of city life is relatively recent and has often been used to further
social behavior that wasn't acceptable, like secret affairs or criminal
activity.

When everyone you know lives in a really small area, a lot of stuff is
apparent by inference and can't really be hidden. This ends up de facto
reining in behavior without anyone necessarily telling you to stop.

To be clear, I'm not trying to justify a surveillance state. I'm just
commenting on the irony of people acting like anonymity is some long-standing
norm in human society. It's really not. It's relatively new and relatively
uncommon.

~~~
user81048
> people acting like anonymity is some long-standing norm in human society.
> It's really not. It's relatively new and relatively uncommon.

It's not a "long-standing norm", it's a fundamental right, as most, if not
all, fundamental rights we have today.

> When everyone you know lives in a really small area

Even in small towns and villages people had privacy inside their houses, farms
etc.

But from now on, it's constant surveillance everywhere, all the time.

~~~
DoreenMichele
_Even in small towns and villages people had privacy inside their houses,
farms etc._

No, they really didn't. Homes were tiny compared to modern American homes.
Walls were often thin. Windows were often simply openings in the wall with no
glass.

That's exactly part of my point. And it's well documented, though it may not
seem obvious to modern Americans who tend to project images of modern homes
onto the past.

~~~
raxxorrax
I think modern American houses are still made out of paper. The ability to
escape peer pressure was fundamental in progressing society, which would
mostly stagnate with extended surveillance. I see no advantages of going back
there. If you expect more security, I doubt the wishes will ever fulfill
themselves. Would also be quite irrational if we look at the development of
violence.

~~~
DoreenMichele
_I see no advantages of going back there. If you expect more security, I doubt
the wishes will ever fulfill themselves._

I'm going to repeat myself here: I'm not advocating for more surveillance.
That isn't at all why I commented on this.

I commented because I think you don't solve a problem by spouting deluded
nonsense and pretending the world works differently than it does.

The fact that humans have a long history of living with all the neighbors
knowing their business may be part of why surveillance is a thing. Some part
of our monkey brains may be going "We really need to know everything about
everybody and this makes sense." Understanding that may help people articulate
better mental models concerning "What's wrong with this picture and what do we
need to do differently?"

I realize people tend to not actually listen to what gets said and they
project their baggage and fears onto the words of other people, but I
absolutely am _not not not not not_ advocating for more surveillance. I find
social stuff fascinating and my experience suggests that understanding the
social and psychological context is step one in trying to put a stop to bad
patterns and finding better answers.

(Five _nots_ in a row is maybe not the best way to emphasize my point, but we
aren't supposed to type in all caps and I don't know what a good solution is.)

~~~
raxxorrax
Sorry, I didn't mean to say you would do that. "If you expect more security"
was meant to be equivalent to "If one expects more security". Probably a
language thing, my fault.

But back to the topic I still think surveillance being the historical norm
isn't too accurate. For over a decade we got more and more surveillance with
the justification of terrorism, civil unrest and security. Similar aspirations
are probably numerous throughout history.

I think everyone favors stability at some point, but to me it looks like the
classical ambition to remain in control and fears that cannot really explained
by a rational risk analysis, even if officials are in a position of
responsibility. But I don't think that many people are keen on monitoring
others. There is gossip, but that mostly happens due to nearly the same
motivation or is just a detached way to reaffirm each other.

It would be pretty easy to get supporters against censorship. Instead these
security measures are creating the dissidents it fears so much.

~~~
DoreenMichele
_Probably a language thing, my fault._

Probably a language thing, the fault of English. ("FTFY")

I'm recovering from a mold exposure, something I'm allergic to. When I'm not
coughing up phlegm, I'm conked out and sleeping hard. So I'm done with this
discussion, having nothing whatsoever to do with anything anyone here said.

------
moneytide1
We'll be seeing a generation of citizens that have been raised under these
conditions and will understand how to behave in order to please the "eye of
Sauron" which is essentially an automated tensor processing pipeline that
"flags" surveilled instances for review by a politically elevated human, or
digests quarterly citizen economic behavior and determines anomalies in
advance (Minority Report) which subsequently will allocate Facebook-esque
content review labor.

~~~
jacobush
Probably not Facebook-esque, but actually _Facebook_.

~~~
AdmiralGinge
I know it's probably old news to most of you, but Facebook's content policies
are genuinely moronic. I ran a confessions page when I was a student and some
of the moderation decisions were breathtakingly idiotic. They'll let racists,
homophobes, anti-vaxxers (a genuine threat to public health!) and all kinds of
terrible people off scot-free but an off colour joke specific to a tiny
university gets the page removed and the owners are forced to build up their
userbase again.

------
deegles
Ways I can think of to identify if someone is/has been in a crowd (in rough
order of difficulty):

1\. Cell phone data from bluetooth [1]

2\. Cell phone data from your carrier [2]

3\. Cell phone data from Google/Apple/etc [3]

4\. Face recognition with automated methods

5\. Face recognition with human super recognizers [4]

6\. Gait recognition

7\. Using WIFI to detect body shape [5]

8\. Using lasers to detect your heartbeat [6]

So once technology gets advanced enough, you'll have to wear something and
take measures to protect yourself from potentially all of the above if you
want true privacy... which would ironically immediately single you out :)

[1]
[https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/14/opinion/bluet...](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/14/opinion/bluetooth-
wireless-tracking-privacy.htm)

[2] [https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/6/18214667/att-t-mobile-
spri...](https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/6/18214667/att-t-mobile-sprint-
location-tracking-data-bounty-hunters)

[3] [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/20/us/data-privacy-
fbi.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/20/us/data-privacy-fbi.html)

[4]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_recogniser](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_recogniser)

[5] [https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2016/08/using_wi-
fi_s...](https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2016/08/using_wi-fi_sig.html)

[6] [https://www.engadget.com/2019/06/27/the-pentagon-has-a-
laser...](https://www.engadget.com/2019/06/27/the-pentagon-has-a-laser-that-
identifies-people-by-their-heartbe/)

~~~
raxxorrax
Lasers can be reflected. Best target the cameras, because their photosensitive
chips are actually quite sensitive and you would have solved two problems at
once.

I don't think that technological feasibility implies broad use. That would be
pretty terrible with a lot of technologies.

I could permanetely X-ray your house for example. Aside from advances in image
recognition which I think largely is due to the available data, the main
factor for camera surveillance will become a problem is that high quality
cameras have become that cheap.

------
zests
I want some anti-facial recognition clothing just for the aesthetic. It fits a
certain futuristic functional clothing vibe.

~~~
badrabbit
I hope wearing capes amd cloaks becomes a thing to hide gait. I thought 2020
would be the year we all wear capes to work!

~~~
ColanR
Only happens if the importance of privacy becomes as obvious as the style
change.

------
veggieburglar
If you like this, check out Neal Stephenson’s newest book “Fall, or Dodge in
Hell” for an interesting exploration. While you’re at it, it’s probably worth
it to read “Reamde” first as they’re in the same storyline.

~~~
davidgould
Save yourself 17000 hours of tedium and don't read "Fall, or Dodge in Hell".
I'm a Stephenson fan from way back and have read everything, and loved a lot
of it, but Fall is lukewarm garbage. Seven Eves and D.O.D.O. were not great,
but Fall is really 1400ish pages of everything wrong with Stephenson's
writing. Dude seriously needs an editor.

The first 300 or so pages of Fall are not terrible and there are some
interesting ideas and characters -- who are all abandoned in favor of several
hundred pages of retelling the biblical Genesis legend from first principles
and a new cast of characters who are actually processes in a computer
simulated universe who are derived from the original characters but have total
amnesia including about basics like identity, body form and function, and
language. If a hundred pages of the interior monologue of a head injury
patient in a coma sounds like a good time, this may be for you.

For instance, it takes a couple dozen pages for the new characters to discover
shit. I mean, literally, discover shit. First they percieve that they want to
eat, then they discover how to eat, then they tell us how great it felt to
eat, then they sleep and in the morning they discover they have to shit. Then
they tell us shit smells bad.

Once the new universe is up and running and all the characters have
rediscovered everything so they can talk and walk and wipe themselves, they
organize a society which is just as bad as anything they left behind. We
suffer along with them. This takes hundreds of pages.

And then ... oh yes ... we jump way into the future with all new characters
and new settings for the final battle against the final boss. I can't even.

Stephenson has never been good at endings, but this new method of just
wandering away and then gluing another vaguely related book onto the back a
few times is not working for him.

~~~
bluenose69
I cannot disagree with any of this, really. The man seems to get into a mode
sometimes, and forgets where the ESC key is.

Still, I mostly enjoyed reading "Fall, or Dodge n Hell". Not as much as
Cryptonomicon, mind you, and less than Seveneves; Anathem is stronger than any
of these.

Although I have to work to get past the 100-page chunks that fill his book, it
does not put me off reading about a book a year. Quicksilver is on my list,
for example.

All of this is to say that he is a flawed writer, but that there is much to be
gained by reading his work.

~~~
davidgould
Anathem is probably my favorite with The Diamond Age or Snow Crash second. The
Baroque Cycle was very rewarding to read, it really made vivid the invention
of the modern world in a way that most history doesn't, but they were not
great novels. He really needs an editor who could force him to cut a lot,
almost all his books would be improved by being 20% shorter.

------
tinkthank
I imagine this could be neat way to troll Amazon's walk-out stores. I'm not
entirely sure how those stores work, but I'm guessing they keep track of you
with cameras to tie you to a credit card. Someone enters the store, registers
their card, but then just disappears. Suddenly stuff is disappearing off the
shelves, attributable to no customer. Would the system just let them walk in
its confusion or sound an alarm?

~~~
dTal
I imagine the products themselves must be tagged in some way, or you could
trick the system with sleight of hand (I don't think it's _visually_ tracking
what goes into your basket). In which case, I imagine there would be an alarm
if a product floats out of the door, accompanied by a mysterious stranger
while another shopper supposedly in the store is missing.

Or rather than an alarm, they would probably just sort it out later and charge
your card.

~~~
TheGallopedHigh
I believe it is vision tracking that does the monitoring.

------
neonate
[https://archive.md/WdjJR](https://archive.md/WdjJR)

------
oblib
This is a great bit of journalism. Best layman's accessible article I've read
on this subject.

------
0xBA5ED
At this point, there are enough systems working in parallel that fooling one
of them, some of the time, doesn't seem worth the effort.

------
aidman
The article links Adversarial Fashion [0] with some nice looking and
functional designs. Is there a similar service for customizing them? I'd
gladly pay a premium if I could use custom plates instead of the constant ones
from the artist

[0]: [https://adversarialfashion.com/](https://adversarialfashion.com/)

~~~
dhimes
Doesn't that just make you identifiable again?

~~~
aidman
Fair point, but I'm looking more to add noise to a car's data than to make my
body less identifiable

------
Miltnoid
I find it incredibly ironic that the New Yorker doesn't let me read this
article in incognito mode.

------
j88439h84
I wonder why they give an abstract drawing instead of a photo of the actual
clothes.

------
kuu
I wonder why the article lacks of pictures

~~~
GoblinSlayer
[https://blog.dnsadblock.com/static/7bf5b62e92323f8970bfb6c87...](https://blog.dnsadblock.com/static/7bf5b62e92323f8970bfb6c87dc65398/d2391/arvin-
keynes-v4mnfkdmix4-unsplash.jpg)

------
fdghfg
cashless society and soylent green coming soon. one step at a time.

------
Theodores
If evading the cameras and their trackers really matters to you then you just
need to wear a high visibility jacket and ride a bicycle at all of ten miles
an hour. They will never catch you!

I jest, but, as soon as you are out of a motor car, there is no number plate
which is like a database entry without a primary key as far as the police are
concerned. They can't do much without the driver information stuff.

On the bike you can wear a helmet with a cap, reflective glasses, a breathing
mask, gloves and much else that disguises your identity, without anyone being
suspicious. You are just a cyclist, not likely to be the criminal.

The bicycle also gives options for cycling along canal towpaths and many other
urban routes that are just not readily viewable by CCTV. You can also stop to
collect your breath whenever you want, which can be suspicious on other modes
of transport.

Imaginably in places like Copenhagen and Amsterdam there will be law
enforcement able to nab cyclists, but, in places like the UK and the US where
cycling is not how it works, the safest way to not be tracked is to wear high
visibility clothing and to ride a bike at 10 mph. They will never catch you
that way!

