
Why do we still not know what's inside the pyramids? - siderly
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20151113-why-do-we-still-not-know-whats-inside-the-pyramids
======
dalke
Why are people using infrared to look for new chambers and passages? Muon
detectors, using cosmic rays for the source, were used in the 1960s to
conclude:

> We can say with confidence that no chambers with volumes similar to the four
> known chambers in Cheops's and Sneferu's pyramids exist in the mass of
> limestone investigated by cosmic-ray absorption. The volume of the pyramid
> probed in this manner is defined by a vertically oriented cone, of half-
> angle 35 degrees, with its point resting in the Belzoni Chamber. The
> explored volume is 19 percent of the pyramid's volume. We hope that with
> minor modifications to the apparatus the complete mass of limestone can be
> searched for chambers. -
> [http://www2.lns.mit.edu/fisherp/AlvarezPyramids.pdf](http://www2.lns.mit.edu/fisherp/AlvarezPyramids.pdf)

That's one of the reasons we know for certainty there is no large, unknown
grain storage chamber in those pyramids.

~~~
burkaman
I'm guessing a big part of it is "The explored volume is 19 percent of the
pyramid's volume." Eliminating the possibility of huge chambers is cool, but
it would also be cool to find out if there's anything in the other 80%.

Do you know if they ever succeeded in searching the whole pyramid?

~~~
dalke
LOL! It's going on right now! As part of this exact research project!

The BBC article only mentioned infrared, but
[http://www.popsci.com/archaeologists-will-scan-egypts-
pyrami...](http://www.popsci.com/archaeologists-will-scan-egypts-pyramids-
with-muons-drone-mounted-lasers-and-more) says the researchers are "[a]rmed
with thermal imaging, muon detectors, and drone-mounted laser scanners."

------
n0us
I wonder why they cannot use ultrasound or something similar where they "ping"
in different locations, then pick up the result by various microphones
attached to locations all over the pyramid. I don't know a whole lot about
this type of engineering so if someone has an answer I would very much
appreciate.

On another note, if they open it up and find out it's been filled with grain
this whole time I might have to consider voting for Ben Carson.

~~~
aaronbrethorst
FTA:

    
    
        “Archaeologists have in fact found grain
        silos in Egypt, they’re well known to us
        and they look nothing like pyramids,” she
        says. Egyptian officials have also chimed
        in recently to refute Carson’s ideas.

~~~
n0us
yes but that part of the comment was sarcastic. My jaw would hit the floor
though if someone told me it was true.

~~~
superuser
They have found grain in the pyramids, but small amounts buried along with the
other treasures as part of the burial ritual. Since grain was "stored" there
then they were technically used to "store" grain.

~~~
lisper
That's technically true, but irrelevant, at least in the context of what
Carson said. Carson's comment was that the pyramids were built _by Joseph_ to
store grain. This is significant because Joseph prophesied seven years of
famine and urged the Egyptians to store grain against it (Ge41). So anything
built "by Joseph to store grain" would have to hold a lot of grain.

~~~
nightspirit
Was he being serious or just trying to score some sympathy of Jews and
Christians?

Nobody has ever found any evidence of Exodus and it isn't like people aren't
trying.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exodus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exodus)

~~~
lisper
Carson is a Seventh-day Adventist, and hence a young-earth creationist. (Yes,
I know. It's mind-boggling, isn't it?) And he's stood by the remark. So almost
certainly he was being (and continues to be) serious.

~~~
protomyth
All Seventh-day Adventist are NOT young-earth creationists.

~~~
lisper
That may be, but it is official church doctrine:

[http://www.adventist.org/en/beliefs/humanity/creation/](http://www.adventist.org/en/beliefs/humanity/creation/)

"God has revealed in Scripture the authentic and historical account of His
creative activity. He created the universe, and in a recent six-day creation
the Lord made “the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them”
and rested on the seventh day."

~~~
protomyth
Yes, they quote the bible. Yes, many Christian churches quote the same text
and call it the same. No, it does not mean all Seventh Day Adventists are
young earth creationists.

~~~
lisper
I didn't say all 7DAs were YECs. But the fact of the matter is that YEC is the
church's official position. And Ben Carson is on record as believing in a six-
day creation, and professing ignorance of the age of the earth. So we can
quibble over the YE part, but not the C part. Ben Carson is without question a
creationist.

~~~
protomyth
"I didn't say all 7DAs were YECs"

your exact phrase was:

"Carson is a Seventh-day Adventist, and hence a young-earth creationist."

~~~
lisper
Really? You want to hold me feet to the fire over my use of the word "hence"?
Very well, let me be as excruciatingly precise as I can.

Ben Carson self-identifies as Seventh-Day Adventist (7DA). Hence, if he
follows the doctrine of the church he professes to believe in, he is a YEC.

Now, it is possible for someone to self-identify as a 7DA and not be a YEC,
just as it is possible for someone to self-identify as a Catholic and deny the
authority of the pope, at least on some matters (e.g. all the self-identified
Catholics who deny that the use of birth control is a mortal sin). But Ben
Carson is clearly a creationist. He's said so on numerous occasions. Arguing
over whether he is a YEC or some other flavor of creationist is really
whittling at the margins. He's specifically proclaimed ignorance of the age of
the earth. He uses YEC code words like "evolutionist" and "micro-evolution".

Finally, it would be exceedingly peculiar for a 7DA to not be a YEC. The
_name_ of the sect derives from their belief in Biblical literalism, and
specifically from their belief in creation as described in Genesis. A 7DA who
is not a creationist would be like a Mormon who thinks Joseph Smith was a con
man. Again, not impossible. People can self-identify as anything they want,
and once you've abandoned science and reason anything is possible. But it
would be really, really weird.

------
corin_
It could be a coincidence, but I wonder if this piece (published 3 days ago)
was inpsired by this 6-day old Reddit thread: "ELI5: Why don't we already know
everything that's inside the pyramids?"
[https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/3s7ljo/e...](https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/3s7ljo/eli5_why_dont_we_already_know_everything_thats/)

~~~
JacobAldridge
I suspect both were inspired by US Presidential candidate Ben Carson's recent
claims that (he believes) they were built by Joseph to store grain (as per the
Book of Genesis).

~~~
tillinghast
For clarity, Genesis recounts grain stores being built, but makes no claim
that the Great Pyramids were those stores. The BBC article does reference
grain storage directly:

> But Stevenson also says that counter-theories about the pyramids actually
> being huge grain stores are not helpful. “Archaeologists have in fact found
> grain silos in Egypt, they’re well known to us and they look nothing like
> pyramids,” she says.

~~~
coldcode
I think building a grain store in the shape of a giant pyramid wouldn't work
anyway. The grains at the bottom would be pretty much unusable and likely you
couldn't get them out except from the top because of the weight. I do wonder
if someone could work out the math though :-)

~~~
tillinghast
If you make the bottom of the pile accessible in some manner (like with a
door), it's more efficient to withdraw the grain from that point due to
gravity.

Peripherally related, this pyramid talk finally made me look up "critical
angle of repose" of various materials:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angle_of_repose#Angle_of_repos...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angle_of_repose#Angle_of_repose_of_various_materials).

The Great Pyramids are around the 50° mark, where modern wheat's angle of
repose is roughly half that (27°). That's not to say a pyramid-like structure
_couldn 't_ be used to store wheat—just that the shape of these particular
pyramids don't directly mimic the free-standing angle that a wheat mound would
form.

------
jedberg
Once we have nanobot cameras we can send them in through the cracks. All the
more reason to invent nanobot cameras.

Well, that and the amazing medical imaging they could be used for.

~~~
ajmurmann
Also spying on everyone.

~~~
jedberg
I was trying to remain positive, but yes, most likely the military will invent
them -- heck maybe they already have.

~~~
veb
Well, that's a given, right?

In other news: [http://news.mit.edu/2013/inexpensive-nano-
camera-1126](http://news.mit.edu/2013/inexpensive-nano-camera-1126)

------
sageikosa
Get some big cranes, take it apart, record where everything goes, then put it
all back together again when done. Carefully of course...

~~~
Raphmedia
What happens when we put it back and end up with extra pieces?

~~~
Roodgorf
Those were just extras in case we lost some.

~~~
Raphmedia
Better make those hotter so we can easily find them with thermal imaging,
then.

------
yeukhon
> Either way, National Geographic reports that the Egyptian authorities are
> already interested in the idea of marketing tourist access to any chambers
> that might be found

I am a big history nerd. I will literally say, I love this history shit. You
can see how passionate I am about learning history.

But I am concerned about this statement. Does a historical figure deserve to
have his or her tomb to be further explored, displayed, and made for profit?

Is there a balance between learning about ancient culture and respecting the
dead?

------
atrilumen
Obviously the illuminati can't have the slave class discovering their
interdimensional portals. Duh.

------
givan
Why do we still think that they were built with chisel and hammer when we know
is impossible with these tools to cut the stones from king chamber to laser
precision or cut stones to make a perfectly symmetric pharaoh statue?

~~~
motoboi
Didn't Rafaello and Michelangelo use those tools to work with rock?

~~~
green7ea
There are two things to keep in mind. Rafaello and Michelangelo worked with
stone that wasn't nearly as hard as granite (granite being one of the hardest
stones). Secondly, we don't believe metals were nearly as developed during the
period of dynastic Egypt and some Egyptologists theorise (but I think this is
crazy) that stone tools were used to carve the blocks.

~~~
rurban
Granite? Who crazy would come up with the idea to build pyramids with
something as heavy and hard as granite.

They were not even carved out of limestone blocks, they were casted by an
early form of concrete created using a mixture of limestone, clay, lime, and
water. Similar to how they would have been built nowadays.
[http://www.livescience.com/1554-surprising-truth-great-
pyram...](http://www.livescience.com/1554-surprising-truth-great-pyramids-
built.html)

~~~
green7ea
The walls of the king's chamber are pink granite. They also happen to be some
of the more precise work in the pyramids.

