
Toilets in a Medieval Castle (2018) - Insanity
https://www.ancient.eu/article/1239/toilets-in-a-medieval-castle/
======
lb1lf
-No history of medieval toilets is complete without reference to Erasmus von Lueg, 15th-century robber baron and lord of the Slovene Predjama castle.

He allegedly met his maker while relieving himself - having made a nuisance of
himself to the Habsburgs, they laid siege to the castle to no avail -as there
was a hidden passageway which let the besieged come and go more or less as
they pleased.

The solution? Bribe a servant into lighting a lamp in a window when Erasmus
went to the latrine prior to bed - a latrine the Habsburgs had aimed their
cannon at in the daytime.

The rest, as they say, is (apocryphal) history.

~~~
softblush
This probably is just a urban legend type story. Or do you have evidence to
point at?

Even the Wikipedia page on Erasmus of Lueg states there is no evidence to back
this up.

~~~
travbrack
That's why the they said it's apocryphal

~~~
travbrack
Dammit. Too late to edit now.

------
game_the0ry
Do you remember the show Modern Marvels on the History channel? Back when it
was about actual history and not reality tv...

My favorite episode was on bathrooms. Did you know that during large
gatherings at the Palace of Versailles people would relieve themselves in
hallways, stairways, and even in the gardens? Or that dining room seats in
medieval Germany had holes with chamber pots underneath so that people could
go while they ate?

I miss Modern Marvels.

~~~
Someone
What’s _even_ about relieving themselves in the gardens, as compared to inside
the palace?

Do I miss some knowledge about French palace customs?

~~~
dmurray
Yeah, if I was visiting Versailles today, I might discreetly relieve myself in
the gardens, but I'd stop short of soiling the great halls.

~~~
jakobmartz3
why not fertilize the flowers while youre at it

------
pbhjpbhj
In the article:

>Walls were sometimes whitewashed with a coating of lime-plaster which
maximised the light coming from the small window and because lime kills off
bacteria. //

Surely not. Bacteria weren't part of the mindset of UK castle builders!?

I'd expect there right about making it lighter in the garderobe, and possibly
over time it was noticed it made the room less smelly?

~~~
pengaru
You don't have to know the _why_ to appreciate lime plasters stay clean/grow
less mold in dank environments through experience.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
Doesn't "because" say they knew why. If it just said "which" instead of
because then I'd agree with you.

Perhaps there was some mediaeval theory relating lime and pestilence?

~~~
pengaru
I don't see a problem with the author using a more modern terminology for
"cause" than would have existed at the time, to describe what anyone working
with lime plasters appreciates on a basic level; the stuff stays exceptionally
white and clean.

Personally I don't like their saying just that it kills off bacteria. It's an
antimicrobial/fungicide in general because of its elevated Ph.

I'd prefer the article take the opportunity to educate me about the practical
value of lime plaster than restrict itself to the limited education of
medeivil minds.

~~~
cgriswald
You might not see the problem, but it's _factually inaccurate_ because there
is an attribution error.

Oddly in this case where the author could have made a correct attribution he
used the word "which" which does not ascribe a cause. If he had simply
switched "which" and "because" we probably wouldn't be having this
conversation, because the sentence wouldn't have been false. It makes me
wonder if the author swapped around the rest of the sentence after writing it
originally.

I don't think anyone is suggesting reducing the information content. Even
wanting more is just fine and dandy, but the proper way to do that would be to
correctly attribute the reasoning of the time, and then add something along
the lines of "which we know today does $x."

~~~
xapata
Either way, I'm glad we can agree that it's important to be precise with
words. Thanks for making my day a little brighter.

------
hermitcrab
Reminds me of the story of the dwarf toilet Ninja, who put the ass into
assassination: [https://jpninfo.com/47201](https://jpninfo.com/47201)

------
throw0101a
If anyone is interested in medieval-y topics the _Shadiversity_ channel run by
Shad M. Brooks is pretty good:

* [https://www.youtube.com/user/shadmbrooks/videos](https://www.youtube.com/user/shadmbrooks/videos)

He's done a few videos on castles specifically.

~~~
arkitaip
Everyone should give Shad a follow. Dude is planning on building a medieval
experience park on land he've recently purchased and it's going to be fun to
follow his journey.

------
tomcam
> besiegers used just such a latrine shaft in 1203-4 CE to gain entry to
> Chateau Gaillard

Wonder who got picked for that job

~~~
beeper-beeps
The Wikipedia article mentions that a solider named Ralph found the shaft, no
word on whether he did the climbing though.

> Following this, Philip ordered a group of his men to look for a weak point
> in the castle. They gained access to the next ward when a soldier named
> Ralph found a latrine chute in use through which the French could clamber
> into the chapel.

~~~
tomcam
correct term is that Ralph "got the shaft"

------
hnarn
The word "garderobe" (Old French "garder", to watch/guard + "robe", clothing)
is interesting, because it's the modern word for a wardrobe in many European
languages. According to Merriam-Webster, the word came into English in the
15th century and was primarily used to "provide English speakers with a word
for a room or closet in which to store clothing". From there, it was then used
for private bedrooms/bathrooms, until the word went out of fashion in the 19th
century and today is only seen to refer to exactly what this article is about,
historical bathrooms/toilets in castles.

------
rachitwatts
me (sitting in the toilet): let's read something interesting on hackernews.
Hackernews: What about an article on ancient toilets?

------
kwhitefoot
> then called a privy

Such things were still called a privy in my childhood.

------
krm01
A picture or two would have been helpful to spice up the story.

~~~
rosywoozlechan
There are pictures in the article?

~~~
omnibrain
They don‘t load on iPhone.

~~~
mrcarrot
Also not on iPad, but they do load, on a stand-alone page, if you click on
them.

------
santojleo
I find it shocking the toilet hasn’t been reinvented.

~~~
userbinator
That's because the digestive systems of humans haven't been, either.

------
DonHopkins
So that's what the weird shaped Lego was for!

------
pugworthy
This reminds me that I should be at Burning Man right now.

------
theodric
Just last night I dreamed of my wife and I jumping through the garderobe's
hole and into the water below to escape pursuers. The simulation is breaking
down!

ｓｙｎｃｈｒｏｎｉｃｉｔｉｅｓ

