
Exploring the Abandoned Macy's Midwest Headquarters - philip1209
http://www.philipithomas.com/macys-building/
======
windexh8er
Urban exploration should be defined as the draw to a romanticized past of the,
generally, modern forgotten. A few months ago I fell down the rabbit hole of
looking into this within the Minneapolis area and ran across:
<http://www.actionsquad.org/index.html>

Warning: I got so caught up in exploring what's been explored I spent over 4
hours of a Friday night engulfed in the secrets hidden in plain sight of
somewhere I've lived for 10 years.

While not maintained as of recent the archives are a blast and I made me long
for a small, yet trustworthy group of people willing to put some time and
effort into continuing the legacy. Then again, sometimes the dream is far more
entertainment than the reality...

~~~
beambot
I noticed a few photos of folks chillin' in storm drainage tunnels. Seriously,
be careful. Check the weather forecasts before exploring these. We used to do
that as a kid... until a neighbor boy died during a flash flood.

~~~
waterlesscloud
When I was a teenager, there were a number of abandoned multistory office
buildings in suburban Atlanta where I lived. Maybe 7-8 within 10 miles of my
house, and a couple of cool abandoned restaurants too. There had been a
commercial real estate boom, followed by the inevitable bust.

Anyway, we got in to all of them at one time or another, sometimes via
ridiculously elaborate plans.

What finally put an end to it for most of us was returning to one of our
favorite buildings and finding someone had set up a wire tied to the inner
doorknob that went off somewhere in to the dark hvac room. Our imaginations
about what might be at the other end of that wire convinced us that maybe we
weren't as invincible as we thought. You never know who else is going in those
places.

There was also this weird abandoned castle out in the woods. It was like a
funhouse castle, wooden walls, but with fake stone on the outside. Turrets,
fake drawbridge, the whole thing. No clue whatsoever how it got there. Must
have been some old amusement park? But no one ever found any info on it.

Anyway, it involved parking on the side of this long stretch of country road,
then walking a couple hundred yards through some woods. One night as we pulled
over to park, this fat redneck dude comes out of the dark woods over to our
car. Our windows are down and I'm in the passenger seat.

He points a MAC-10 right at my chest and tells us we need to be leaving.

For one time in my life I have literally nothing to say.

We drive off at a crazy rate of speed and never go back.

Being the south, there's a lot of things that could have been going on there
that night, but the place was a few miles from where a crazy mercenary type
had his commando training compound, so our theory was his people were using
the place that night.

This guy, who also made suppressors for the MAC-10.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell_Werbell_III>

So yeah, things happen in abandoned places.

~~~
MindTwister
Interesting article... this quote struck me a kind of weird though:

 _"The mission, which (according to Federal Communications Commission (FCC)
and the Special Subcommittee on Investigations of the House Commerce
Committee) was financially subsidized, and to be filmed by CBS news, was
aborted when the participants were arrested by the FBI. WerBell was released
without being charged."_

...A war funded by the news?

~~~
waterlesscloud
Yeah, that does jump out at you.

There were always a lot of rumors swirling around him. Probably a healthy mix
of lies, half-lies, and truths.

His compound was along this road that ran between towns, fenced in, with a
rotating police light on a tall pole next to the gate. Supposedly when the
light was on, that meant training was "in session", I guess as a warning to
anyone who might want to enter. Anyway, it meant that all the locals were
aware of him.

One rumor was that he provided School Of The Americas* (a couple hours away)
with special training the military couldn't / didn't want to provide directly.

After his death, his son ran the place for a while, and one of this
instructors, Jason Lau, opened a specialized kung fu school in the area. Their
military supply retail outfit, Brigade Quartermasters, continues in operation-
<http://www.brigadeqm.com/aboutus.asp>

The county I grew up in was very, very, very right wing. Still is to some
extent. So he was in the right place.

* [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Hemisphere_Institute_fo...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Hemisphere_Institute_for_Security_Cooperation)

------
peterhajas
Very cool.

I noticed (especially on the linked-in-another-comment detroiturbex) that
there are tons of abandoned offices, buildings, libraries and schools in
America. Who owns these? How difficult would it be to purchase one, and how
expensive? It would be cool to live in one of these (with power and running
water, of course) and have freight elevators, PA systems and escalators in
your home.

~~~
breckinloggins
> Who owns these?

It varies. Sometimes they are still owned by the original tenants but often
they are owned by a real estate investor that did triple net leases to large
clients. In some cases, the buildings are owned by the city or some other
government entity.

The best way to find out is to take a trip to the local courthouse.

> How difficult would it be to purchase one?

Assuming the owner wants to sell, probably a bit difficult. But no more
difficult than any other large commercial real estate purchase. The buildings
usually don't have some special status just because they are "abandoned".
Things that WILL make acquisition more difficult, however, is if the building
is an historical landmark, condemned, has asbestos or other environmental
problems, is scheduled for demolition by the city, has lots of lien holders
and a complicated title, etc. But all of this is just another way of saying
that large real estate transactions can be challenging. There's a reason there
are large law firms exclusively devoted to this stuff.

> how expensive?

It depends on why it was abandoned. If the existing tenant just went out of
business or otherwise moved out due to their own problems or reasons, then the
building will probably be priced similarly to other properties in the area (in
other words, it's not a given that 'abandoned' somehow entails a price break).

If there are severe location problems (like many places in Detroit, for
example) then there may be breaks based on that.

Lastly, if there are severe environmental, structural, or other problems with
the property itself, you might be able to purchase it for a song, but that
doesn't mean you won't have to spend megabucks to fix it so you can get a
certificate of occupancy. Watch out!

Another way to think of all this is that the word 'abandoned' is a romantic
term with connotations of artistic urban decay. However, sometimes it's just a
vacant building. There's nothing special about it just because no one is
currently in there.

> It would be cool to live in one of these (with power and running water, of
> course) and have freight elevators, PA systems and escalators in your home.

Probably not as cool as you're envisioning. Every one of these things has to
be maintained and/or replaced. That's probably going to be just _slightly_
more expensive than calling a residential plumber. Your heating, water, and
sanitation bills are likely to be atrocious simply because it's a large
building in (probably) an area zoned for commerce. What good is all that space
if you have to keep all of it dark except for a few hundred square feet?

Then, of course, you have to worry about squatters and other people who won't
realize or won't care that there's someone living in there. I don't know about
you, but I'd prefer my home to be a sanctuary and not have to constantly worry
whether I'm going to run into a trespasser who may or may not be friendly.

But hey, despite all this if you can find a really cool abandoned building and
live in it, be sure to blog about it and take pictures so we can all live
vicariously through you!

~~~
saalweachter
You _might_ be able to get a discount if you find a building which is worse
than useless. For instance, an abandoned grain silo in the middle of a city
that no one wants to store grain in is useless and also horribly expensive to
tear down. So you might be able to buy it for less than the cost of an empty
lot in the same area (which could still be quite a lot!) because the people
you're bidding against would buy it and bulldoze it.

------
bane
Most of the abandoned structures I've seen photos of are standalone, the fact
that this is still part of a functioning building is very interesting.

It makes me wonder how many other interesting abandoned "structures" fill up
floors of Manhattan skyscrapers for example.

~~~
Samuel_Michon
Then you'll love Nick Carr's blog. He's a location scout in New York. Some
examples of interesting sites in Manhattan:

Mostly empty post office on 8th Ave & W 33rd St.:
<http://www.scoutingny.com/?p=2691>

Abandoned law offices in lower Manhattan: <http://www.scoutingny.com/?p=2164>

Biplane on top of a Manhattan skyscraper: <http://www.scoutingny.com/?p=4202>

~~~
bane
This is an absurdly amazing blog! Thanks so much for this! To better brighten
my day, I didn't know about the pending conversion of the Post Office building
to help wash away the mistake of the terrible new Penn Station.

The old one was as beautiful as Grand Central in it's time, I feel like we
really lost something when it was demolished for and replaced with the present
day abomination. It's like they finally realized what a loss it was and are
trying to remedy it AND preserve another nearby beautiful building.

This <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Penn_Station1.jpg>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Penn_Station2.jpg>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NYP_LOC4.jpg>

was replaced by this
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Penn_Station_concourse.jpg>
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:New_Jersey_Transit_termina...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:New_Jersey_Transit_terminal_at_Pennsylvania_Station_NY.jpg)
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Britney_Spears_MSG.jpg>

If anything feels like a retrograde in civilization, Penn Station is it.

It won't completely replace what was lost, but I have high hopes it's a move
in the right direction.

~~~
Samuel_Michon
I wholeheartedly agree with everything you wrote, and I see we share the same
taste in architecture.

I love GCT, it's one of my favorite train stations in the world. London
Paddington [1] and Antwerp Central [2] are also quite stunning and both have
an interesting history.

In the same vein, I'd like to recommend watching the new drama series 'Mr
Selfridge' starring Jeremy Piven. It depicts the early days of legendary
London department store Selfridges [3]. Starting March 31, it'll air on PBS
[4].

[1] [http://theworklife.com/graham-
miln/files/2012/01/Beautiful-i...](http://theworklife.com/graham-
miln/files/2012/01/Beautiful-iron-facade-at-Paddington-Station.jpg)

[2] [http://dairyfreetraveler.com/wp-
content/uploads/2012/11/Antw...](http://dairyfreetraveler.com/wp-
content/uploads/2012/11/Antwerp-Central-Station.jpg)

[3] [http://london-sightseeing.net/wp-
content/uploads/2010/04/Sel...](http://london-sightseeing.net/wp-
content/uploads/2010/04/Selfridges-Oxford-Street-London.jpg)

[4] [http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/programs/series/mr-
selfr...](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/programs/series/mr-selfridge/)

~~~
bane
I appreciate the recommendations and will definitely check them out.

As an aside, I read reddit's r/architecture and find lots of the modern
architecture discussed there quite dreadful, the group think seems to think
that lots of flat rectangles with random material use. Everything looks same-
same, unlivable and boring.

Walk around Grand Central and it's a model of efficiency, the number of people
that can move about that facility without getting jammed up on thresholds and
transitions, and oddball "innovative" hallways is staggering. Tall ceilings
bring in ample natural light, the information desk is stunningly easy to find
and offers the most important piece of information a train rider needs, a
clock, large and high enough you can see it clearly from pretty much
everywhere.

And it's simply a beautiful building as well.

It's magnificent. I'm convinced that the post WWII reaction to these older
styles is where we collectively lost our minds, and we're only now starting to
get them back.

~~~
Samuel_Michon
I agree. I like the neo-classicist, Victorian, and Beaux-Arts styles of
architecture. Apart from the aesthetics, the buildings of that time were
(overall) certainly thought out well. As Steve Jobs said: “Design is not just
what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works.”

However, I know of contemporary architecture that accomplishes that as well.
For example, take a gander at Louis Kahn’s National Assembly Building of
Bangladesh [1] or Ton Albers' Gas Union building in Groningen, The Netherlands
[2]

[1] [http://www.archdaily.com/83071/ad-classics-national-
assembly...](http://www.archdaily.com/83071/ad-classics-national-assembly-
building-of-bangladesh-louis-kahn/parliament5/)

[2] <http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=gasunie>

~~~
bane
One thing that's great about Neoclassical, etc. style of architecture is how
well it blended in and complemented earlier styles.

The Baroque Château de Maisons-Laffitte [1] would look splendid next to the
Palais Garnier [2] built 200 years later all in a fictional city next to the
Pantheon [3] built 2000 prior!

[1] - <http://www.maisonslaffitte.net/> [2] -
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palais_Garnier> [3] -
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheon,_Rome>

I think this influence carried forward and evolved into Art Deco [4] somewhat,
and the war simply killed off this entire line of movement.

[4] -
[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/Chrysler_...](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/Chrysler_Building_spire%2C_Manhattan%2C_by_Carol_Highsmith_%28LOC_highsm.04444%29.png)

And then we end up with eyesores like the J Edgar Hoover building

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fbi_headquarters.jpg>

~~~
Samuel_Michon
I love love love the Chrysler building's spire, and Art Deco in general. My
fondest memory of an art outing is of when I went to a general exhibit of Art
Deco architecture, furniture, fashion, jewelry, music, and poster art at the
Victoria & Albert Museum in London in 2003. It was truly amazing. Amongst
other great works, they had rebuilt an entire authentic 30s art deco hotel
foyer in the museum.

<http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2270898.stm>

------
agent86
I've always found this stuff to be interesting on a variety of levels. What
happens when maintenance stops? What state did they leave things? In the cases
where you have before and after shots - or multiple visits spread out over a
long time - it can be even more interesting to see how things turn out.

If anyone else wants to see more of this kind of thing, I've spent a lot of
time looking at places on the Detroit Urbex site.

<http://detroiturbex.com/>

I'm sure there are some other good explorations out there, and I hope this
thread turns up a couple other hidden gems that don't pop right up on a Google
search.

~~~
philip1209
There is a full-time maintenance man for the Macy's building, but as I
understand it he mainly services the occupied parts.

------
enraged_camel
_Because there is a functioning Macy's mall on the first few floors, they
still play mall music. However, they never disconnected the upper floors from
the PA system, so music still plays through these floors 24 hours a day._

Wow. Eerie as hell.

The main thing on my mind as I was going through the pictures and their
descriptions was, "this is what everything is going to look like after World
War 3. Except with more dust, ash and perhaps dead bodies."

~~~
erock
it reminds me of dawn of the dead. just a little bit creepy

------
rmason
In Detroit we call it ruin porn and unfortunately it forms outsiders image of
the entire city which is tragically wrong. You can spend entire weeks on the
web exploring, there's even Europeans who have visited and created sites with
thousands of images.

Here's a few:

<http://detroiturbex.com/content/index.html>

<http://www.forgottendetroit.com/>

If anyone is interested the DetroitTurbex group runs tours.

~~~
wglb
But to be fair, a drive down Grand Avenue can be rather heartbreaking.

------
dylanhassinger
Hey St. Louis'ers - The T-REx is also home to our local startup meetup group.
Once a month we have a kickass St. Louis entrepreneur come out and share their
story. Usually we have 40-60 folks turn out, hope you can join us sometime!

<http://startlouis.com>

------
hyperberry
Wow- Lemme say first I didn't think there were many St. Louisans on HN. Thanks
for sharing a bit about our growing startup community.

I've been in that building plenty of times- most recently for startup events-
and the lobby + 13th floors definitely have a languished feel to them (12th
floor has been better refurbished and has a lot more activity). I had
absolutely no idea, though, the rest of building was so empty.

Quite a bit different from my childhood: that was the flagship downtown
Famous-Barr department store . . . where they decorated the window displays
every Christmas . . . getting nostalgic here.

*Ever been in the WU tunnels (not just the big one between Duncker & January halls)? Pretty expansive system right under students feet that most have no idea about :)

~~~
ben1040
_Ever been in the WU tunnels (not just the big one between Duncker & January
halls)? Pretty expansive system right under students feet that most have no
idea about :)_

I've not been in the tunnels, but in my undergrad I spent a lot of time up on
the roof of the library (I was the KWUR engineer and our transmitter rack and
antenna lived on the roof). Pretty awesome view from up there.

------
justjimmy
For those interested in exploration of this kind, recommend checking out
<http://www.uer.ca/>

Nice big database of spots. There are certain guidelines and unwritten rules,
so try not to spoil it for everyone else.

Personally, the 2 on the top of my need-to-checkout-list for UE is Pripyat and
the catacombs beneath Paris.

I've never felt more alone (as if I'm the only person left) when exploring
long abandoned locations at night.

------
lanstein
Of everything, this goes uninvestigated??

"A microphone for the PA system. Some of them still work, and we assume that
they still play in the main (functioning) mall."

~~~
philip1209
We don't tend to go during the day, and this would require a second person in
the mall. It will be investigated soon, though!

------
andyjohnson0
_"Because there is a functioning Macy's mall on the first few floors, they
still play mall music. However, they never disconnected the upper floors from
the PA system, so music still plays through these floors 24 hours a day."_

J G Ballard would have loved this place.

------
gee_totes
I'm surprised they left the mannequins behind; those things are worth money.

~~~
mikeho1999
Actually... looking at the pictures, I'm surprised about how much was left
behind in general. For example, the kitchen had industrial baking and mixing
equipment, etc., which I'm sure is all worth a decent amount of dough (pun
very very much intended =).

Anyway, all of this reminds me about a documentary I saw called Urban
Explorers (you can probably find it on netflix)... pretty interesting stuff
out there.

Thanks for the post!

~~~
jlarocco
I was wondering the same thing.

The only thing I can think of is it would cost more to pay somebody to go
through it all and put it up for sale than they could make back. I have a hard
time believing it, though.

~~~
waterlesscloud
I suspect the money they'd get from selling it is insignificant compared to
the money they have tied up in the whole building.

So they're probably holding off until they have some sort of actual plan for
the place, then they'll bring in some company that specializes in turning over
that kind of stuff.

------
100k
Minneapolis has a similar building, formerly a Sears warehouse and retail
store, now known as the Midtown Exchange. It houses retail, a hospital, a DMV
office, apartments and condos.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midtown_Exchange>

I believe it was the largest building by square footage in the state until the
Mall of America opened.

~~~
waterlesscloud
Atlanta had a giant Sears building too. Warehouse, retail store, offices. Then
it was City Hall East for a while, housing govt offices and the city homicide
detectives.

Now it looks like they're turning into some sort of giant food market. That
place is huge, gonna be a lot of food I guess.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponce_City_Market>

------
ry0ohki
The "Abandoned Apartment Building" in one of the first pictures looks very
modern and new, are things that bad in St. Louis?

------
smackfu
What does "Macy's mall" mean here? Is it a mall or is it just a big Macy's?

~~~
pgrote
It was connected to a mall called St. Louis Centre. The Macy's itself was the
flagship store and headquarters of Famous Barr, a St. Louis based retailer
bought by Macy's.

------
siculars
The hollowing out of America. See... all of Detroit.

------
snake_plissken
OMFG I want those mannequins!

------
Uchikoma
Feels like Bioshock.

------
nsoun
Hello Amnesia.

