
Human Interface: Backpack harness innovation - zdw
https://www.carryology.com/liking/industry/human-interface-a-guide-to-backpack-harness-innovation/
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toomanybeersies
My father had a custom-fitted backpack made back around 1980, which he gave to
me, and it's the best backpack I've ever used.

It goes against practically everything in the book about modern backpack
design.

There's about zero customisability, you can adjust the length of the shoulder
straps and hip strap and that's about it, but I'm a very similar build to my
old man so it fits me almost perfectly.

It's an external aluminium framed pack, with a lot of hard canvas and leather.
The shoulder straps are relatively narrow, and made of canvas, they look
incredibly uncomfortable, but after I broke them in they were incredible, they
moulded to fit me.

The external frame allows for really good back ventilation. The thing I
dislike the most about modern backpacks is that I basically end up with a
giant sponge on my back. The frame also serves a protective purpose, along
with being made out of thick canvas, everything inside the pack stays safe,
you could throw it of a cliff.

Of course, it's heavy, bulky, and if it doesn't fit you it's hell to wear. But
for a 40 year old backpack it does incredibly well.

I think that the biggest difference between old outdoor equipment and new
equipment is that the new stuff is all generic, one size fits all, and
designed to be comfortable from the moment you walk out of the store. You can
buy a new pack and boots, and go on a 5 day hike the next day without having
to break in any of your equipment. Perfect for our fast food, turnkey culture.
Older, and modern bespoke equipment made in the old way, will last you an
entire lifetime, but it takes time to break it in and maintain it.

I've always found it interesting that at the point in history where humans
were spending the most time in the wilderness, we had the least technically
complicated equipment. When the Europeans were exploring and colonising the
Americas they did so with nothing but timber, leather, canvas, and a bit of
steel. Now we spend a couple of weekends a year in the bush, bringing a
plethora of space-age technology just to try and survive: carbon fibre, nylon,
and titanium gas cookers that boil water in 30 seconds.

I feel like people often become more reliant on technology, not less, when
they go into the outdoors.

~~~
andrewljohnson
This seems like a myopic view, like you fell in love with a backpack and built
a worldview around it. Modern backpacking gear is extremely light, resilient,
and comfortable. You can get packs that ventilate your back. The canvas isn’t
really any protection at all from being thrown off a cliff, but a pack filled
with soft stuff is. And the external frame is totally unnecessary if your pack
weighs 20 total pounds because you have modern gear.

And then mix that in with a jab at disposable culture. You can take good care
of a modern pack too, I’ve never had to replace a backpack because it broke.

Sorry to be disagreeable, I just think this comment doesn’t reflect a common
reality. I’m no gear head, someone else buys all my gear... but I appreciate
modern gear.

~~~
ColanR
Here's the difference I see: the gear the parent is carrying could last year
in the wilderness, without reconnecting to civilization. Same goes for the
Europeans colonizing the Americas. Your 20lbs of 'high end gear' lasts until
it breaks, and then you're back to the store because you can't repair it.

I grew up camping, and I know how awesome the modern tech is. I also know that
most people who use it can't go without it.

Can you repair your sleeping bag? When you drop your mosquito cooking stove
'off a cliff' and break the nozzle, can you fix it? Can you and your modern
equipment thrive in the woods after your stove's fuel runs out?

~~~
andrewljohnson
Yes, I can and have repaired my sleeping bags. My pocket rocket stove is very
sturdy and has a sturdy plastic case, and we’ve had it for 14+ years. And I
think I’d be fine in the forest without a stove, but honestly if I ran out of
food I might not last long... I’m not a survivalist.

FWIW, I’d also keep using a pack I liked. But the takeaway shouldn’t be people
should buy old fashioned backpacks... they mostly suck compared to modern
packs.

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PaulDavisThe1st
One thing missing in this survey is the arrival of shoulder strap lift straps.
If you go back to the 1970s, backpacks more or less uniformly had a shoulder
strap that started at the top of your back, sat directly against the body and
wrap up and over the shoulders. This transferred a significant amount of
weight directly to the top of the shoulders.

At some point, people figured out that it made sense to run an adjustable
strap from the very apex of the shoulder strap back to the pack "frame"
(whatever that was), designed to generally run at about a 45 degree angle
upwards. This massively reduces the load on the shoulders, and converts the
shoulder straps more into balance/position elements than load bearing.

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lukebuehler
Having walked over 4000 miles in a Deuter backpack that weighted on average
about 33lbs/15kg, I would just add that while optimizing backpack fit is
absolutely important, it is more important to constantly optimize how much
weight you are carrying. The latter is way more an art than the former.

~~~
magicroot75
As a former AT thruhiker, I couldn't agree more. Though we definitely would
have appreciated packs that were easier on the shoulders and gave less
swampback. We had no frame ultralight packs and sort of molded the contents of
the pack to fit our shorter torsos.

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koobz
Most of the modern backpacks portrayed are heavy and designed for 45+lb loads
(of which some of these packs will comprise 3+lbs).

Would have liked to see more ultralight representation because it serves as a
good counterpoint to all the tech that though effective, adds weight.

Reducing weight has been the biggest advancement in ergonomics for me. A pack
is an important part of that total and many of his examples - ladder back
adjustment systems, contouring supported by robust plastic and foam,
articulating ball joints - add to it.

You Ain’t Gonna Need It - unless you don’t apply that attitude and end up with
a 75lb(!) bag.

~~~
gherkinnn
Yup, it’s a vicious cycle. You carry more, you need a bigger pack, you’re
slower, you need to carry more.

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lifeisstillgood
Fascinating - and just to show how utterly hopeless I am, I think that will be
a great piece of evergreen SEO for their site.

As I read the conclusion I could not help think of the Red Dsarf episode where
they travel back to 33AD :

"Bags! What did people do before they invented the bag then?"

"Drop things mostly sir"

~~~
marci
"Bags? Where we going we don't need [dropping nonexistent glasses] bags."

[https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2010/08/the-art-and-
scie...](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2010/08/the-art-and-science-of-
carrying-things-on-your-head.html)

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telesilla
Fascinating! The entire time I was absorbing why my Osprey women's backpack is
so comfortable, so interesting to get the historical breakdown. Not sure about
that floating backpack though..

~~~
vanderZwan
Funny, to me the physics of that floating backpack immediately check out on an
intuitive level: the less energy I put into making the backpack move, the less
energy I'll expend.

~~~
ahaferburg
My only worry would be that it swings, and builds up more movement than
necessary. In the video at 0:46 the movements look pretty excessive.

~~~
Dansvidania
I imagine one could dampen the motion by regulating the tension of the
bungees? or maybe lock it entirely if you need to jump around for a while?

I think that kind of shock absorption and momentum conservation optimization
over something that happens tens of times per minute (like steps or strides
when running) would definitely make a difference.

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oftenwrong
A few more recent innovations in packs...

Aarn "bodypacks" use front bags to counterbalance the load on the back:
[https://www.aarnpacks.com/](https://www.aarnpacks.com/)

NeoTrekk (formerly LuxuryLite) also offers a "front pack" for counterbalance
that can be used with their pack. However, that is just one of the pack's many
innovations, which include modular waterproof storage, quick-detach hip belt,
camp chair conversion, attachable wheels, and more:
[http://www.neotrekk.com/index.html#stackpack](http://www.neotrekk.com/index.html#stackpack)

The McHale Bypass Harness on McHale packs completely solves the inherent
adjustment problems of the traditional load-lifter design used on most
trekking packs. This innovation is not recent; its US patent has expired.
Despite this, I do not know of any companies that have adopted it:
[http://www.mchalepacks.com/sarc/04.htm](http://www.mchalepacks.com/sarc/04.htm)

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chrisseaton
If you ask people who live and die by their 'backpacks' \- the military
(they'd call them rucksacks in the US or bergens in the UK) - you'll find that
they eschew all this fancy complexity and just use something with a very basic
structure. You may get an internal metal or polymer frame, but that'll be
about it. Keep it simple.

~~~
7952
I do mountain biking and lots of hiking. For years I used an Osprey bag which
was super light and had lots of features. Problems was that it was hard to
clean, the fabric/zips were not strong enough and it was difficult to load.

Now I just use a backpack designed for a laptop. The material is easy to wipe
clean. It is rectangular which makes it far easier to load stuff than the
weird semi-cylinder shape. The material is string and the zips are much more
meaty. And the flat rectangular back is very comfortable for me.

~~~
gonzo41
I had the same issue for a while and I just downsized to a really nice 'cheap'
osprey Rook 65 which is just a big single main compartment and a top lid. It
isn't really meant for huge weight but I can easily get 5 days of food and
gear for alpine conditions.

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jogundas
Surprised to see so few innovations for the sweaty back problem. Are the
"trampoline" and plastic with holes really the only solutions in this space?

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Dowwie
I'm backpacking 8 days into the backcountry this Summer. I was fitted for my
pack in 2009 and used it on a few trips, carrying up to 75 pounds for several
days. Even with a fitted pack, my shoulders took a beating. I don't know
whether upgrading packs will make much of a difference but need to act soon.

~~~
thomaslangston
Yikes that's a heavy pack.

[https://www.rei.com/blog/camp/how-much-should-your-pack-
weig...](https://www.rei.com/blog/camp/how-much-should-your-pack-weigh)

Almost all of the pack weight should be on your hips, not your shoulders.

Good luck preparing for your next trip.

~~~
Dowwie
I alternate the load from hip to shoulder when climbing elevation. I'll try
not to this time..

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jotm
I always thought shoulder straps need more connection between them at chest
level - would that make sense? I think it would even the load better.

~~~
gbtw
My Kriega R30 backpack has that, its not that great for walking in my opinion
but i can wear it all day on the motorcycle (that's what its made for), off
the bike i usually have my pants and jacket and helmet hooked on the top of it
so its very overweight.

[https://kriega.com/riderpacks/](https://kriega.com/riderpacks/)

~~~
jotm
Ah, so they do make them! Yes, that's what I meant, like those R35/R30
backpacks. Haven't seen that before, thanks for the link!

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throw7337
All this innovations, adjustments and frames with joints add extra weight.
Going ultralight might be far more beneficial.

~~~
toomanybeersies
Yes, but we also have the benefit of modern materials science.

You can make a backpack with a lot more parts/materials and still have it
lighter than a backpack made 20 or 30 years ago.

Of course the downside is that you can't repair them when they break. You
can't weld, glue, or sew broken parts any more, and good luck getting
replacement parts or modifying your pack in any way.

Some of us like our creature comforts too. I could go ultra-lightweight, but I
don't want to be eating nothing but beef jerky and snickers bars, and sleeping
under a couple of square feet of tarp. I want to eat real food and sleep in a
tent (actually I've always been a hut man).

~~~
bebna
You can tape it. Easier to do and to carry on the field.

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gherkinnn
Despite all these fancy designs, I see a big trend towards simple packs. A
main compartment, no lid to speak of and a small external pocket.

Pair that with the increasingly popular vest-style designs and we have a
winner.

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Lorin
Could use this research towards further improvement of steadycam systems

