
Stanford scientist searches for answer to his son’s Chronic Fatigue Syndrome - mcone
http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/08/12/stanford-scientist-searches-for-answer-to-his-sons-devastating-condition/
======
tomhoward
My own experience, for what it's worth:

I've been afflicted with what seems to be CFS for at least 10 years.

I've been through the exasperating process of seeking diagnosis and treatment
from conventional doctors.

In the absence of any answers, I had to take matters into my own hands and
attempt to get well with non-conventional remedies like paleo dieting,
detoxing, nutritional supplements, yoga, etc.

Nothing really moved the needle in any sustained way until I started
experimenting with emotional healing therapies that work to identify and
release deeply-held subconscious traumas and self-sabotaging beliefs.

I've been doing that for 5-6 years now, and my wellbeing keeps improving at an
ever-increasing rate.

So, my n=1 anecdata suggests that yes it's a physiological ailment (i.e.,
involves mitochondria, ATP, cortisol, inflammation, oxidation, T-cells, and
many other material processes within the body), but that stress and trauma is
a major factor, and that by addressing the stress/trauma component, the
physiological component corrects itself, slowly but surely.

There is plenty of evidence to give credence to this explanation, if you
simply search for studies linking excessive cortisol (a stress/fear/anxiety
hormone) to immune function, auto-immunity and inflammation.

What seems to be lacking in the mainstream medical zeitgeist is an acceptance
that stress/trauma can be held deeply in the subconscious, and that there are
effective techniques to identify and resolve it.

But I can attest, yes, anecdotally, that it is a real phenomenon, and that
effective treatments exist. If this were to be included in the research, I'm
confident that CFS can be understood and an effective remedy can be made
available to all sufferers.

Any researchers who are interested to know more about my experiences are
welcome to contact me (email in profile). I have some lab pathology reports on
things like cortisol levels, iron/zinc/copper (and other minerals), thyroid
hormones, inflammatory and auto-immunity indicators, chronic infection
antibodies (EBV, CMV). I'd be very willing/happy to get other tests, as I'm
not yet fully healed, so there's still time to do before/after comparisons of
relevant indicators.

~~~
andreasklinger
Hi Tom

Quick question related to "emotional healing therapies": how do you search for
therapists that can actually help here. For me it is kind of hard to differ
between esoteric charlatans and actual experts. Is there any special approach
to searching them you would recommend?

~~~
viwalia
Clinical psych professor here.

This is a tricky question because there is questionable stuff out there, but
on the other hand a lot of scientifically supported therapies are probably
working for reasons other than their purported reasons (due to publication
bias, etc.). To complicate things more, there are some therapies that seem
like quackery that seem to work for reasons no one really understands. So
people purporting to be adhering to "empirically supported therapy" (a kind of
political buzzword) might actually be doing no better than someone else who
doesn't explicitly advertise that, but who is rigorously and critically
evaluating the scientific literature.

My advice is to pay attention to where someone got their degree, and how they
describe themselves. By degree I don't mean you need to fetishize invalid
status stuff, but look for people from degree programs you trust. If you don't
feel comfortable with someone, look elsewhere. Don't feel uncomfortable asking
them about their theoretical orientation or thinking about cases.

~~~
lawpoop
> but look for people from degree programs you trust

How is someone who doesn't really keep tabs on departments of psychology
supposed to have developed a sense of trust of particularly degree programs?

Do you mean like preferring Vanderbilt's psychology program over Harvard's? Or
preferring Psychology over Acupuncture?

------
afpx
After reading all of the Sapolsky books, I'm fascinated and saddened by how
much impact long-term psychological stress can have on Human health. It
seriously wrecks havoc and can subtlety restructure the brain in ways that can
be difficult to reverse.

But, yet, Humans also seem to relish in displaying how much stress they can
withstand while acting like it doesn't effect them at all. It's a sick badge
of honor. I've seen people tolerate and even feign enjoyment of high-stress
lifestyles for decades before finally succumbing to it.

Nowadays, when I even feel the slightest bit of stress response continuing for
longer than a day, I try to completely remove myself from the environment that
could be causing it.

~~~
chrismealy
Sapolsky writes about a certain amount of stress being good for you. IIRC he
cites a study about people in retirement homes do better if they are made to
do chores.

~~~
fernly
There's a fairly well-known study (I could find a ref if wasn't too lazy)
showing that people in retirement homes who were made responsible for the care
of a potted plant, lived longer on average than a control group who were given
a potted plant but told the staff would take care of it. Just having a
responsibility keeps people alive.

------
nihy
CFS is in the blood. There are now several different researchers that have
reported that there is something in the blood of patients that induces
abnormal metabolism in cells. CFS cells taken out of the patient's blood and
into healthy blood are mostly normal. Muscle cells grown in presence of CFS
blood show altered metabolism.

Only one group has published their findings here
[http://insight.jci.org/articles/view/89376](http://insight.jci.org/articles/view/89376)

During this conference Ron Davis showed some of his data on this. CFS cells
subjected to salt stress can't keep up with the resulting increased ATP
demands:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7bBMXQSmuM&t=25748](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7bBMXQSmuM&t=25748)

Another researcher present at the conference also found abnormally low
metabolism in T cells of patients.

~~~
nihy
A better slide from the conference comparing

\- Healthy plasma and healthy cells

\- CFS cells in CFS plasma

\- CFS cells exposed to salt ATP/salt stress

\- CFS cells exposed to pyruvate/salt stress

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7bBMXQSmuMt=25900](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7bBMXQSmuMt=25900)

Pyruvate allows the CFS cells to tollerate the stress, suggesting that there
is a defect in energy production. Pyruvate is one the fuels used in the Krebs
cycle to produce ATP.

------
tudorw
CFS is an umbrella term for a range of symptoms. I find the research into
psychoneuroendocrinology very interesting, it's on the frontier of examining
how our minds interact with our body to maintain a 'state', for example, it
was recently discovered that bone marrow plays a role in the communication
between the brain and the gut microbiota, we are a 'closed loop' system, our
gut microbiota causes changes in our brain, our brain causes changes in
microbiota.

~~~
wellboy
Not really correct.

CFS is a term for mitchondrial dysfunction, which causes a range of symptoms
and where neither cause nor therapy is clear.

~~~
zik
CFS stands for "Chronic Fatigue Syndrome". Syndromes are "a group of symptoms
which consistently occur together, or a condition characterized by a set of
associated symptoms". It is literally a description of symptoms (which may
have a variety of causes).

~~~
tudorw
"Neural mechanisms of central sensitization modulate the amplitude of sensory
inputs and enhance conscious perception of nociceptive and interoceptive
stimuli. Objective biomarkers and mechanisms remain elusive for explaining the
disabling fatigue, exertional exhaustion and cognitive incapacitation.
R01NS085131."

[http://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749(16)32198-4/full...](http://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749\(16\)32198-4/fulltext)

"Conclusion The work supports the assertion that CFS should not be considered
to fall within the spectrum of mtDNA disease. However, the current study
cannot exclude a role for nuclear genes with a mitochondrial function, nor a
role of mtDNA population variants in susceptibility to disease. This study
highlights the need for more to be done to understand the pathophysiology of
CFS."

Clinically proven mtDNA mutations are not common in those with chronic fatigue
syndrome.

[https://bmcmedgenet.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s1288...](https://bmcmedgenet.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12881-017-0387-6)

~~~
nihy
The absence of mitochondrial DNA mutations known to be associated with disease
does not mean it's not a mitochondrial disease (in the sense that mitochondria
are abnormal in some way and relevant to the disease).

Simply put, it's not a genetic mitochondrial disease.

There is a fair amount of evidence that mitochondrial function is abnormal in
CFS.

See for example this study
[http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2016/08/24/1607571113.long](http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2016/08/24/1607571113.long)

~~~
tudorw
Thanks, I did not intend to indicate it was not a mitochondrial disease or
related to mitochondrial function, just that it's not the 'final solution'
other posters seem to have implied. It would seem likely that from further
research that CFS will be subdivided into smaller groups, with some having
clinical tests and causes that have been established, others still eluding a
resolution.

------
djsumdog
There was another Chronic Fatigue Syndrome post a few days ago that has some
interesting comment threads:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14896255](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14896255)

(Not a dupe, just a different article)

------
rrauenza
I felt awful for a few months - achy and difficult to get out of bed. Turned
out to be a vitamin D deficiency. At the bay area latitude, we barely get
enough especially if you don't go outside enough. Worse if your skin
pigmentation is darker.

Thankfully this is something doctors screen as part of a normal blood workup.

It isn't CFS -- but if anyone is having a similar experience, check with your
doctor.

------
nyc111
The GI microbiome and its role in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome: A summary of
bacteriotherapy

[https://search.informit.com.au/documentSummary;dn=1196262314...](https://search.informit.com.au/documentSummary;dn=119626231492520;res=IELNZC)

I hope he sees this comment and have his son examined by a doctor who is
knowledgeable with the microbiome and FMT.

------
dietervds
Sharing this in case it helps anyone.

My wife suffered from CFS for over 10 years. In the final stage she could
hardely walk anymore because of the muscle pain, and was on 26 pills per day.

We spent years on trying all kinds of stuff and seeing all kinds of doctors.
What 'cured' her in the end was us figuring out for ourselves that what was
diagnosed as CFS was actually closer to insuline resistance.

After some experimentation we went on a ketosis diet. Three months later she
felt fine, her blood work was perfect, almost no more pills. Six months later
she was off the pills, and even able to get pregnant (wasn't possible before
because of the pills).

Now we're a happy healthy family :-)

Maybe this helps someone who is in a similar boat.

~~~
Nomentatus
Any chance nocturnal seizures were a factor? Ketosis would address that and
most with epilepsy only have nocturnal seizures (not nec involving movement)
and are never diagnosed.

------
hamsterjam
I thought I had CFS for years. Until I started exercising and eating right and
stopped abusing coffee.

------
rmetzler
Astonishing, how none of these articles and comments seem to mention medical
marijuana. The /r/trees subreddit might be filter bubble, but the fact that
you're able to find individual stories that point at MMJ helping at least
_some_ people with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, seems interesting.

Also notice that the patient from this article went to Jamaica and India, two
destinations famous for their cannabis. Maybe the patient's endocannabinoid
system is off.

~~~
DanBC
> but the fact that you're able to find individual stories that point at MMJ
> helping at least some people with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, seems
> interesting.

No, it's not in any way interesting. You'll always find people saying "this
helped me", where "this" is cannabis, homeopathy, crystals, prayer, some type
of medication, some type of surgery.

~~~
tudorw
Yes, but the OP reply has a point, anecdotal evidence is often a factor in
finding off label uses for pharmaceuticals, so it's worth recording and
investigating anecdotal evidence, it's certainly not the basis for ongoing
advice, but it is a starting point for possibly worthy research.

"When a drug is prescribed off-label, however, the risks may increase. That’s
because the safety and efficacy of off-label uses has not been evaluated by
the FDA. Instead, off-label use is often based on smaller sample sizes and
anecdotal evidence, such as how well a particular doctor sees that an off-
label use has worked for her patients in the past. While information like this
can seem compelling, the drug hasn’t been put to the same rigorous scientific
testing and analysis as it has for its on-label uses. Unexpected side effects
can pop up, some of them serious."

[http://www.rotlaw.com/legal-library/what-is-off-label-
use/](http://www.rotlaw.com/legal-library/what-is-off-label-use/)

------
Nomentatus
Consider EDS, particularly if you also have allergy (MCAS - mast cell
activation) sypmtoms. A lot of people diagnosed with CFS actually have Ehlers-
Danlos Syndrome, which affects 1 or 2 percent of the population and is
undiagnosed in 95% of patients. Very few doctors know enough to rule it in or
out, or have even heard of MCAS.

microbiota may be involved with CFS
[http://www.techtimes.com/articles/198798/20170225/chronic-
fa...](http://www.techtimes.com/articles/198798/20170225/chronic-fatigue-
syndrome-mysterious-reason-traced-to-immune-fault.htm)

------
bsbrown
I wrote in a recent segment and wanted to ask/comment on the mitochondria
issue with the nerves. My illness has been what I consider to be a never
disease; they are inflamed at times or burning. When the CFS comes on I feel
hot and then get nerve sensations. How does this have to do with the
mitochondria? As time has progressed I feel less and less of this stuff in my
body that originally took root in the area of my chest like an infection. How
could this be mitochondria related?

------
Madmallard
It's mitochondrial dysfunction

Fairly obvious if you look enough at the research

mitochondrial disease patients rarely get diagnosed as adults and they often
suffer a lot of complications unnecessarily as a result

Our medical system is awful at dealing with it - chronic stress and anxiety
are certainly related to metabolic disturbances as well according to research
so that makes it an easy target for doctors to "explain away".

also antibiotics cause mitochondrial dysfunction (particularly bacteriocidal
antibiotics)

chronic stress and sleep deprivation "raise your susceptibilty" to chronic
fatigue and fibromyalgia - yeah becuase they lead to excess oxidative stress

CFS patients are probably surgery risks as well then since propofol and the
like inhibit mitochondria

~~~
chmike
> antibiotics cause mitochondrial dysfunction (particularly bacteriocidal
> antibiotics)

You are very assertive, but this proves that you don't know what you are
talking about. Antibiotics are all "bacteriocidal".

Beside, saying the mitochondries are responsible is like saying that the arm
is responsible of an incapacity to move an arm. It could be due to a
neurological, muscular or squeletical root cause. Mitochondries are the
factories of ATP but there are many other factors in play.

A cause could be a lack of oxygen due to nocturnal apnea, etc. Lack of
vitamins, lack of iron and/or red cells, etc. etc.

~~~
evolve2017
I happen to share your skepticism about a mitochondrial origin for this
syndrome, though I am not familiar with the research (would appreciate a
review on the topic - I saw one linked earlier in the comments from BMC
Genetics that seemed to conclude that mitochondria _are not_ involved).

 _> You are very assertive, but this proves that you don't know what you are
talking about. Antibiotics are all "bacteriocidal"._

I also found this confusing when I first learned about it, but some
antibiotics work by directly killing organisms (i.e., are bacteriocidal)
whereas others simply block the ability of bacteria to grow (i.e., are
_bacteriostatic_ ). [1]

There are a few clinical cases where one would _avoid_ bacteriocidal
antibiotics, as the internal contents of a bacterium could further worsen a
patient's symptoms.

1\. By no means an authoritative reference, just a cool demonstration of this
concept:
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24284484](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24284484)

------
c3534l
CFS is a controversial diagnosis.

~~~
55555
Any syndrome, almost by definition, isn't a highly meaningful diagnosis, as
it's diagnosed by symptoms and exclusion. Once the mechanism is better
understood, it'll become a disease and not a syndrome, but most likely it will
split into multiple diseases (and even then many people will be left out,
untreated).

Imagine having Crohn's disease the year before it (or UC) was 'discovered.'
You had a debilitating disease, but you were just told you had "really bad
irritable bowel syndrome". Certain doctors would tell you that it was all in
your head. Or at the least, they would be wholly unhelpful. The general public
would be much worse.

In my extensive experience, doctors are really, very much just people.
Actually, they're often less helpful than regular people because they have
extreme constraints on their time and against thinking for themselves (example
of the latter: a close friend of mine was hospitalized for attempting suicide
and they wouldn't give him benzodiazepines because of the __risk of
addiction__).

Sorry for the rant...

~~~
saalweachter
Re: doctors, I'd also like to point out that, while the goal of medicine as a
whole is to prevent death & suffering, the goal of _doctors_ is to prevent
death & suffering _from treatable causes_.

Individual doctors do better or worse at dealing with patients who fall off
the map of known problems and solutions - from accusing patients of lying
about symptoms to referring them to medical researchers to just explaining
that there's not much they can do but keep an eye on the situation - but the
most important thing, medically, is for the doctor to make sure that your
symptoms don't have a known, treatable cause.

Dying or suffering for years from a mysterious condition sucks; dying or
suffering for years from a well-known condition that just went undiagnosed
sucks worse.

------
Zarath
Has anyone seen how this interacts with the ketogenic diet?

~~~
rfugger
From the anecdotes I've seen, it's like anything else -- helps some people,
and others not so much. I've never seen a reported recovery simply from
following a keto diet, or any other diet for that matter. My several attempts
at keto as a CFS sufferer didn't go well at all. (Yes, I increased my salt
intake :)

~~~
Zarath
Hmm, I see. Thanks for sharing.

------
mac01021
fuel, air, spark, compression.

People are so much harder... :(

~~~
wellboy
We are also engineered machines, just with 1000x more variables. :D

~~~
cpncrunch
If you look at a modern jet, it's pretty darn complex. The advantage is that
if there's a problem you can look at the flight data to figure out why exactly
the plane decided to do something you didn't expect.

~~~
mac01021
What do the flight data mostly consist of?

~~~
cpncrunch
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_recorder#Flight_data_re...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_recorder#Flight_data_recorder)

------
desireco42
"The handsome man was once a photographer and adventurer. He traveled through
the United States, studied Buddhism in India and Nepal, lived in an Ecuadorian
rainforest..."

------
wellboy
Since some comments made the comparison to psychological factors, CFS is not
an imbalance of neuro-transmitters in the brain, which it is the case for all
psychological illnesses.

As for the latest research, it is a dysfunction of all mitochondria in the
body. More specifically, when ATP is reduced to ADP to produce energy, N+ and
O+ radicals are created. Usually, those are eaten up by killer cells. However,
in CFS patients, this mechanism is damaged, so that way too much N+ and O+ are
created or, they are not eaten up fast enough after only very little exertion.
That is why, CFS patients are bedridden for weeks and months after only
running for the bus for 2 mins, because their body becomes overloaded with
free radicals.

Those damage your cell membranes and create all sorts of pain, fatigue, brain
fog, and many more symptoms.

I've been suffering from CFS for almost 3 years now. I went from building my
own startup and loving life to massive pain and other symptoms within 24h.
Over the years, I managed to reduce the symptoms by staying in bed completely
for 1 year and paying a lot of attention to not exert myself for the
remainder. I can do small things now without having "crashes" and am taking a
lot of anti-oxidants after having found a doctor (Prof. Huber) in Germany who
has specialized in CFS and developed a therapy. He said there are only 10 more
doctors in Germany who know about CFS.

Before him, I went to see 30 other doctors who didn't give a damn about
finding out what's wrong with me. Doctors also will not do more than the usual
testing, because they don't want to exceed their per patient budget. You need
to find a private insurance doctor.

So for 2 years all doctors have told me it's all psychological. I went to see
psychiatrists who prescribed me heavy anti-depressant. They told me I have
heavy depression. When I asked them why they would say that, because I don't
fulfill the depression criteria they became angry.

In order to be diagnosed with depression, you need a minimum of symptoms
including suicidal thoughts, sleep disturbances, change in appetite etc. I did
not have any of those, I just had massive pins and needle pains all over body,
blurred vision and muscle twitching.

I told that to the psychiatrists and became angry, because I questioned their
authority. They are the expert and not me. Then they tried to gaslight me by
saying that I feel depressed multiple times even though I told them that I
don't. Then they told me I am a narcissist, manic, anti-social etc. and that
is why I have these symptoms.

After 2 years I finally found a doctor who was not like this and who did more
tests. He found elevated S100B protein (the CRP of the nervous system), MDA-
LDL (free radicals) and low killer cells.

So, this is what you can expect when having CFS, doctors become angry, they
try to actually gaslight you. Doctors vigorously say that CFS doesn't exist
even though it is described specifically in the ICD.

Apart from that, your parents will desperately try to convince you that you're
mentally ill and that it's all in your head, because that's what the doctors
say and become desperately angry to try to convince you and maybe also cut
contact with you, because they can't see their child withering away in bed,
while he/she refuses to "listen to the doctors".

There are examples of recovery, so it is possible. However, most patients do
not recover ever, because they have kids or need to work a job. If someone
with CFS has kids or a they need to work, it's almost a death sentence,
because you cannot do anything for years if you want to recover and you should
not have more than 5 or so crashes in total, because the recovery time
increases by several months for every crash, at least at the current state of
therapy.

So, it's hard, but I've now had a 2 out of 5 main symptoms disappear after 2
years of avoidance of exertion and hope the other ones clear in the next few
months.

~~~
manmal
You seem to have tried everything - have you also tried what Dr Kruse
suggests? He is very pitchy and I doubt that everything he says is true, but
his theory about natural sunlight and DHA sounds reasonable. Basically he
says, get as much DHA as you can, ideally from fresh seafood; and get as much
natural sunlight with proper retina exposure, or get a UV lamp (like Osram
Vitalux 300w) and a near infrared bulb, and avoid LEDs and energy saving CFLs
as much as possible. He claims that electron transport in the body is impaired
if either DHA or retinal UV exposure is absent. I've noticed a lot of energy
improvement since trying that, but have to take it further to be sure. Some
people at phoenixrising have started intranasal infrared/laser therapy and
reported great improvements, though those devices cost up to 1k (I think the
mechanism is that near infrared helps repair mitochondrial membranes in the
brain, which an intranasal laser can actually penetrate).

~~~
Nomentatus
Note before doing this that antihistamines (with one exception) inhibit
tanning. I presume this includes H2 blockers such as zantac/ranitidine

"histamine induces melanogenesis of human cultured melanocytes by protein
kinase A activation via H2 receptors."

[http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022202X15...](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022202X15407730)

Another reason sunlight+tan might be helpful, is that your tan deals fights
heavy metal toxicity:

Recent research suggests that melanin may serve a protective role other than
photoprotection.[36] Melanin is able to effectively ligate metal ions through
its carboxylate and phenolic hydroxyl groups, in many cases much more
efficiently than the powerful chelating ligand ethylenediaminetetraacetate
(EDTA). Thus, it may serve to sequester potentially toxic metal ions,
protecting the rest of the cell.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanin)

------
chmike
I'm on safary (iPad) and can't read the article. Page is blank.

~~~
Angostura
Tap the Reader icon in the address bar and you’ll be able to read it fine.

~~~
chmike
Thank you. Didn't thought of that. Can't delete my question anymore. I
apologize for the noise.

~~~
Angostura
Wasn't noise. You called out poor design.

------
bsbrown
I've had CFS for over 25 years. We should not use the lack of cure as an
excuse to not make progress. With any disease, it needs to be worked on from
two angles, both physical and spiritual. The physical aspect is just a
reflection of a deeper soul condition. We all have something called a karmic
double or shadow--a psychic aspect of ourselves where we store negative
energy. This whole picture goes beyond this one limited life. Most of you have
probably noticed that at various times you feel sad or angry, even hateful.
These are the energies we need to cleanse from our energy fields. They are
downloaded on us the deeper you get into the illness. With chronic illness,
we're often dealing with deep-rooted fear and that is why it takes so long to
heal. It is very important to develop a spiritual life as a sick person, but
I'm not implying that we should all go to church. Meditation can be very
helpful yet towards the end of the illness, you won't be able to meditate very
easily as you'll be blocked from your higher energies. If negative feelings
come up, be with them and allow them to work through you instead of stuffing
them down. Leave yourself time for this. Keep yourself in a positive space as
much as possible. Some people are getting help from figures like Matt Kahn on
YouTube who's enlightened and can teach people how to love in a world filled
with judgment,etc. You will reach a point where you notice definite changes in
your psychic state--more joy, peace and love. You'll become much stronger for
having gone through this process. It does have a purpose.

As for the physical aspect, many theories exists. Sometimes they agree with
our experience, and sometimes not. I've always felt that what I'm experiencing
is a potent toxin and a toxicologist in Hawaii has found that we do have a
toxin in us similar to the ciguatera fish toxin that takes 20 years to get
over. I use Edgar Cayce castor oil packs (abdomen) on a regular basis to
cleanse the liver of these poisons. (They get worse as time goes on). Eat a
good diet (always the first step in any healing regimen), consisting of whole
grains, juices, lots of produce and lighter meats and dairy with as much
organic ingredients as possible. Use herbs and natural substances to help with
sleep--valerian,hops, etc. plus melatonin and suntheanine. Listen to your body
when it comes to exercise. Find substances that support your immunity and
break down the situation in your body. I've had luck with Wipe Out from
Holographic Health, Immunocal by Immunotec, ProBoost thymus extract for
T-cells, Colostrum for boosting B-cells, Neem leaf and milk thistle (liver and
detox support). If you can work around the bouncing blood sugar, try a fast
occasionally with a colonic or Edgar Cayce type enema. Fast on watermelon,
lemon juice, citrus or apples in the fall that will scrape you out (crunchy,
like delicious) You can also use flower remedies for mood--good ones at
Perelandra.

Use vitamins and minerals as support with a focus on anti-free radicals.

Good luck and love to all of you!

------
the_absurdist
This is what happens when parents indulge far-fetched academic haziness
because they don't have the strength to confront the obvious: their kid is
depressed and lacking the social skills to cope with life.

Give that 33 year old a beautiful woman, money, and an executive level role at
a tech firm and watch him suddenly only need 6 hours a day of sleep.

Mystery solved.

~~~
static_noise
The root cause of depression is chemical not psychological. It's a natural
process and everybody gets depressed sometimes. If you get depressed, you can
fix it by behaving like a normal person following normal person schedules and
doing normal person things like sports and eating good food. Well... unless
you can't because you're really sick and not just depressed. Those with CFS
have tried following the recipy of getting cured and failed. Time and time
again. Sometimes they succeed for no good reason but mostly after some time of
being normal it all falls apart again.

~~~
jamestnz
>The root cause of depression is chemical

I wonder if you were speaking generally here, or if you were referring
specifically to the Chemical Imbalance theory of depression/anxiety.

Often espoused by the marketing departments of Big Pharma, and by now firmly
lodged in the public consciousness, the idea that abnormal monoamine levels
(e.g. serotonin, noradrenaline) in the brain causes depression, is (to say the
least) highly controversial. Some might even call it "debunked". Or, more
charitably perhaps, just a highly persistent meme that's never really had much
to do with science from the get-go.

BTW, I say this as someone who saw successful results using SSRIs (Citalopram)
as a treatment for depression some years ago. Given that the relationship
between serotonin and depression seems subtle, indirect, and poorly understood
at best, I don't pretend to be able to explain why SSRI treatment "worked" for
me! Placebo? Coincidence? Genuine effect which empirically exists but we do
not yet understand the mechanism (a bit like lithium)?

~~~
static_noise
The problem with those cures might be that they modify one measurable
imbalance but there may be many more and that imbalance might only be a
symptom of something else. Also, people differ in the ways and rates they
process chemicals. Using those poorly understood pills is akin to hitting it
with a hammer and hoping it starts working again.

~~~
jamestnz
I agree with you - from a theoretical perspective, it seems pretty crazy to be
taking pills that alter the brain chemistry when we don't fully understand the
effects those changes might have.

But the strange fact is that SSRI therapy _does_ seem to help with depression
in many people, just as lithium seems to help with mood even though we don't
completely understand why.

With the example of serotonin, even though the SSRI effects serotonin levels
almost immediately, it can take several weeks for depressive symptoms to
improve. Therefore it is unlikely that inhibiting serotonin transport alone
accounts for the anti-depressive effect. It has more recently been theorised
that the strong anti-inflammatory effect of SSRIs may be involved, as
depression is increasingly known to be related to chronic inflammation.

Lastly I'm pretty skeptical about "imbalances" altogether (though I took it
for granted at the time). For example, when I and others have been prescribed
SSRIs, there have generally been no medical tests given first which might
detect or confirm any such imbalance. In fact I'm not even sure such a test is
possible. Instead, they give the pills out solely on the basis of a personal
report from the patient, which the physician interprets to indicate
depression.

