

Ask HN: Can I work for free for your startup? - KG1

Hey guys, my name is George and I really want to get involved with a cool startup or idea. I am not looking for monetary compensation, just the ability to build something cool with awesome people. I am currently in New York (Upstate) and looking to move to the Valley by October&#x2F;November. I am business &amp; marketing grad from SUNY New Paltz and I am self taught in graphic design &amp; currently learning UI UX Design. I am not a programmer, however I will learn in order to get the job done. I never back down from a problem and I will do whatever it takes to help us achieve our goals. If anyone is interested please shoot me an email at georgealvaran0305@gmail.com for resumes or any questions. Hope to hear from you.
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markonthewall
I find your desire to improve very impressive, but I think you will be better
off finding a paid opportunity, as counter intuitive as it sounds.

Most of the time, the only technical skill you will develop by doing an unpaid
internship is how to simultaneously make coffee and photocopies. This is not
what you want.

When a company commits financially, the stakes are much higher and not
training you properly will actually result in a waste of money. It will be
hard with no prior programming experience but we fortunately, are a field
where what you can _do_ overweight where you come _from_.

This is only true to a certain extent of course, and you need first and
foremost to be able to _do_ things. It will take years and thousand of hours
before you become a decent programmer.

For companies to invest in you, you need to demonstrate that you are sweating
to get better and that you _will_ actually get better.

It means reading, writing and studying code, programming methodologies and
paradigms. Overwhelm yourself, learn passionately and ruthlessly. It may sound
like a platitude but there is actually very little else you can do.

 _Start doing that now_ , yes now. Focus on that, take a job as a waiter and
learn, learn, learn on your free time. When you start feeling a little less
inept, it will be the right time to send a couple emails, calls and posts on
HN.

This will also act as a test, you might be a little delusional and drank a
little too much koolaid. Working all day and studying at night will let you
truly assess whether it is the case or not, whether you are chasing a mirage
or a vocation.

Technical internships, jobs should be viewed as opportunities to get better,
professional and familiar with new problems and technologies. if you want
people to invest you, start investing in yourself.

~~~
KG1
Mark, I truly appreciate your detailed response. I fully understand I must
invest in myself prior to any company investing in me. My goal like most
people is to build a great network of like minded individuals so that when I
am ready I can build something on my own with a real team. Thanks again Mark.

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dangrossman
You can't work for free for a startup. Federal law requires you be put on
payroll and paid at least minimum wage. No employment contract can supersede
that law. Silicon Valley has to be one of the more challenging places to live
without a high-paying job: the average rent for a 1-bedroom apartment around
San Francisco is over $3000/month. Why don't you want to be compensated for
this labor you're looking to provide to a startup?

~~~
mslev
Unpaid internships exist, although I believe they often substitute class
credit for actual wages.

~~~
dangrossman
Unpaid internships can't involve the intern doing work for the benefit of the
employer, which is what he's offering. Here's the six criteria test for unpaid
internships from the Department of Labor:

[http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.pdf](http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.pdf)

Virtually all internships in tech are paid internships. Colleges that run coop
programs give credits for internships _in addition to_ the students getting
paid: it's sold to them as a way to help pay their college costs while getting
work experience before graduating. An employer can't pay you in college
credits.

~~~
KG1
Dan thanks again for all the feedback. I truly appreciate it.

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theaccordance
Hi George, welcome to Hacker News. If you're looking to join a startup, here's
a couple suggestions on how to improve your odds when posting on HN:

\- Make things easier for the companies you're trying to attract. Provide
links to your Resume, LinkedIn, and/or Portfolio in your Ask HN post.

\- A Jack of All Trades is a Master of None. You mention having background in
Business, Marketing, Graphic Design, and UI/UX. Pitch 1 competency, preferably
your strongest.

\- Find ways to build experience and reputation in your current situation. I'm
not seeing either based on what you've written.

~~~
KG1
Thanks for the great post I will do that. My major at school was Business &
Marketing, after graduating I worked in the music business for about 5 years
doing mostly admin work & product management. That's my background however I
want to make a career change and get into the tech space that's why I made
this post. I am currently learning UI/UX design and am no pro by any means
yet, I just wanted to show potential companies that I am team player willing
to learn and create value.

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jklein11
According to other comments you have been employed for the past 5 years. You
might want to leverage the contacts and relationships you have built first.
These are the people who already know your work ethic and could provide a warm
lead to a job/mentor. You'd be surprised how small the world is.

