
Dungeons and Dragons Saved My Life - sizzle
http://newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2014/07/dungeons-dragons-saved-my-life.html
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joe_the_user
_A forthcoming documentary about the game characterizes D. & D.’s origins as
akin to Facebook’s: “A cautionary tale of an empire built by friends and lost
through betrayal, enmity, poor management, hubris and litigation_

I have to object to a statement like this. While it seems about everything
that America invents winds-up in the legal system, the idea that D&D could
have been an "empire" is just wrong-headed. D&D expanded regardless of TSR's
smooth moves or missteps because it has always been a very player-driven game,
the ultimate user-generated-content-game really. Just as much and for the same
reasons, D&D never had that much potential to become that much larger than it
did become. Only a certain type of person would play the game and not very
much would stop them from playing. Some company might make more or less money
from this culture but the size of the culture pretty strictly limits the
profits involved.

It's worth noting that D&D 3.5 was released with an "open gaming license" and
thus the game was forked by the Paizo company who maintain their Pathfinder
system closer the original game than the present D&D 4.0 released by now-
Hasbro-owned Wizards Of The Coast, which just reinforces that no single
company is likely to create or destroy D&D-like role-playing.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathfinder_Roleplaying_Game](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathfinder_Roleplaying_Game)

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DanBC
> D&D never had that much potential to become that much larger than it did
> become.

See, for contrast, Games Workshop which is a pretty big deal in the UK with
shops on many highstreets.

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leoc
It's still roughly the same social niche though. And the Warhammer miniatures
wargame may be semi-mainstream, but its RPG manifestation is much less popular
and so only fitfully supported by GW.

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DanBC
That's kind of the point: the same social niche had the power to create a
company with shops on many high streets playing tabletop games with little
figures and lots of dice.

So for parent comment to suggest that it's obvious for D&D to have stayed so
small is a bit odd. It had potential to be much bigger than it was.

I'm not sure if the not-great animation series helped or hindered D&D uptake.

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joe_the_user
My point isn't that D&D stayed small. The entire US roll playing milieu is
fairly large. My point is that the size of this milieu wasn't very likely to
effected by how well the owners of D&D managed a supposed budding empire (the
original quote compared the Games' growth to Facebook's, remember).

Just as much, you're exaggerating a bit the size of Games Workshop. It's just
a game store that also publishes some games [1]. It's got the size of both
things but that's about it - it's hard the ups and downs appropriate to those
two uncertain businesses. Everyone in the table top game business faces the
challenge that once they successful sell a package, their customers can play
for years and never pay another penny. This makes game-selling a labor of love
rather than empire building, as anyone in business should be able to sell you.

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Games_Workshop](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Games_Workshop)

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DanBC
> Just as much, you're exaggerating a bit the size of Games Workshop.

From the Wikipedia link you provide:

> _The group reported revenues of £123.1 million in 2011.[28] This is a
> reduction in revenue of £3.4 million on 2010 but still translated to an
> operating profit of £15.3 million. In 2011 the company averaged 1,901 staff
> across all activities._

Not too shabby, especially when they didn't have the Pokemon juggernaut to
help them out for years.

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navait
This wasn't really the focus of the article, but I'm annoyed by how so many
articles feel the need to "defend" D&D. The 80's and the height of D&D
hysteria was over 25 years ago.

If there's anyone who seriously thinks D&D is harmful in some way, they are
fringe elements. Even the designation of D&D players as losers is losing
ground. A lot of people that I would never think of as the type to play a
table-top game have joined my campaigns.

I don't even hear very much about censoring violent video games anymore. It's
time to let go of the persecution complex.

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Houshalter
My mom still believes that D&D is some kind of dangerous anti-religious thing.
Not that it disproves your point. And the "nerd" stereotype definitely still
exists.

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thejdude
Definitely. I used to play RPGs as a teenager, but now when I see 20 or
30-somethings playing RPGs (or announcing it on FB), I think "OMG nerd".

When I want to relax I read or play casual games, but other than that I'm just
too busy with, y'know, life.

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dasil003
You seem fairly busy with signaling to others how cool you are. That's sort of
an ironic turn of events if you were willing to play RPGs in high school.

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thejdude
Huh? If you think I'm a bragging idiot/hipster/wannabe cool guy, you obviously
don't know me at all. And wow, did I hit a nerve there, with all the people
downvoting me. Insecure much?

I'm just saying, I prefer (or choose) not to play RPGs any more, because I
have my priorities elsewhere. If you like RPGs, then good for you. It's just
the kind of people I see announcing RPGs, well, they certainly seem very
nerdish, and this is me, Mr Nerd, speaking, so go figure what other,
"normal"/"average" people think.

I was mostly seconding Houshalter's commend about "the "nerd" stereotype
definitely still exists." Yes, it does. Very much so.

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dasil003
I don't know anything about you, I'm just telling you how your comment came
off. Personally I have no skin in the game because I've never played an RPG,
so you should put your defensive accusations of insecurity on hold for a
second and consider whether there really was something about your comment that
made it come off the way I interpreted it. Hint: it wasn't simply agreeing
that table top gamers tend to be nerdy.

~~~
thejdude
Fair enough. I was only sharing my thoughts and impressions, thus the phrasing
"I think" and similar words.

My preference doesn't in any way imply I think less of others that like
playing games. I generally like playing games/watching movies/reading books,
it's just my priorities that often direct me otherwise.

Yes, maybe the OMG Nerd sounds offensive to some, but then that's just life.
It's how others see you if you happen to be a nerd. I am also a bit nerdy, so
I also have to accept that reality sometimes.

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cpeterso
If you are interested in the history of D&D, war gaming, and other role-
playing games, I highly recommend Jon Peterson's encyclopedic _Playing at the
World: A History of Simulating Wars, People, and Fantastic Adventures_ :

[https://amzn.com/0615642047](https://amzn.com/0615642047)

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icosahedron
Good article. My own experiences with the game are a near mirror to the
author.

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gfunk911
My first thought was "Was this article written by Fat Neil???"

I'll get deservedly downvoted for an off topic joke, but this time I don't
care :)

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2Pacalypse-
Apparently even HN can't downvote a Community reference!

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hmnottrue
Please. The people who played D&D at my high school were really tortured
outcasts, and I don't think they had a good time. I doubt D&D was that great
for anyone.

