

I'm boycotting Apple - vibrunazo
http://betanews.com/2012/06/09/im-boycotting-apple/

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kdsudac
Disclaimer: I've been a long time apple hater so take what I say with a grain
of salt.

I get particularly annoyed when people describe Apple as an innovator. They're
really just a mainstream cross over hit, while the real innovators never get
the spotlight.

Apple is: incredible at business; excellent at marketing; great at product
design; mediocre at innovation;

How much of a MacBook Pro is Apple innovation? and how much of it is doing a
great job of pulling together supplier's innovations with some great design
and system integration? Even OSX and iOS are derivatives of BSD.

~~~
pvidler
> How much of a MacBook Pro is Apple innovation? and how much of it is doing a
> great job of pulling together supplier's innovations with some great design
> and system integration?

And how much was it that suppliers were being pushed by Apple into being
'innovative'? Would anyone be producing laptop size retina panels if not for
Apple's demand? How long would we have waited for retina laptops if we had to
rely on HP, Dell, etc.?

Combining old components into new products can be just as innovative as
creating new components themselves. Innovation is not restricted to the lowest
levels.

Edit: let me clarify this a bit. If apple goes to LCD panel suppliers and says
'you only support 1080p in this size, but give us 2880x1800 and we'll buy x
million units', is it the supplier who's being innovative? Remember that apple
also had to get nvidia to produce a mobile graphic chip with a much higher
max. resolution -- it seems to me that it was Apple's vision of the whole that
drove the innovation for the parts.

~~~
kdsudac
I noticed you answered my question by asking another question. You bring up an
interesting point and I'll answer it; however, I'd appreciate it if you
returned the favor and gave me a straight-forward answer to my question.

Q: And how much was it that suppliers were being pushed by Apple into being
'innovative'? Would anyone be producing laptop size retina panels if not for
Apple's demand? How long would we have waited for retina laptops if we had to
rely on HP, Dell, etc.? A: I have no facts on this and probably only LG and
Apple insiders really know. If I had to guess I'd say: LG has been in the
display business for decades and have had a long R&D program to research how
to make better displays. They (and other companies) figured out how to make
very high-res displays at a cheaper price (i.e. they innovated). LG then
shopped the technology to several suppliers. HP, Dell, etc. were interested
but knew that such a product wasn't a good fit for their product mix and would
be too expensive for their typical customer. Apple saw the opportunity (kudos
to them) and are able to command a premium price from consumers so they locked
up a deal with LG.

Did Apple innovate? Personally, I'd just say they saw a market opportunity and
ran with it.

I guess the real point of difference here is how far we can/need/should
stretch the word innovate.

To put a twist on your metahphor: Your boss comes to you and says "hey if you
can make X go 10 times faster for 50% less, they'll sell like crazy" You then
spend a couple weeks figuring out how to achieve that goal. Does that mean he
innovated by seeing a market need and setting a goal? No, he saw a market need
and deserves a pat on the back for that. You innovated a solution and deserve
a pat on the back for that.

~~~
pvidler
I answered with a question because no-one here is in a position to actually
answer any of these questions -- it all really hangs on what was said and done
behind the scenes; I'm just playing devil's advocate and providing an
alternative point of view.

My opinion is that upping the max. resolution for a graphics card is neither
especially innovative nor difficult (early reports seem to show that the chip
is not really fast enough for it anyway -- see the review on anandtech). While
producing a 15" retina display may be more difficult than a 10" model, it
seems to me that it's more of a yield and cost issue (but perhaps there's a
lot more involved).

On the other hand, having the vision (okay, the deep pockets also help) to get
all these previously non-existent pieces together, and to get it working with
reasonable battery life and heat, could be seen as innovative -- if any part
of the MBPwRD is.

(The redesigned fan is actually my favourite part -- I hate whining high-
pitched laptop fans).

As for your final example -- there doesn't seem to be any innovation in it at
all? Innovation is about coming up with something new. Let's change it a
little -- suppose your boss came up with a complete idea for a genuinely new
web app and asks you to build it; much of the innovation is his, in my
opinion. If you do something genuinely new in the implementation, then you may
_also_ be innovating.

I guess my point is that (I believe that) the product can be innovative even
if the parts aren't, and especially if they are.

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holyjaw
The first two paragraphs make it obvious the author hasn't a piece of apple
equipment to boycott in the first place. That wasn't a well thought out
opinion; it was a tech-pundit's idea of Mad-Libs.

I want my page view back.

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raganesh
Did anyone else find it odd that 15 out of the total 20 articles the author
has linked, to back up his arguments, are his own on the same site?

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petethepig
Selling all your apple stuff just because of their lawsuits? Isn't that silly?

Why should I, as a customer, even care about it? All I need is a good product
(and affordable price, which is arguably).

~~~
justinschuh
It sounds like you're arguing that morality and ethics should have no bearing
in a purchasing decision.

~~~
ecubed
In the end, if its a better product, I'll use it. The courts and judges know
infinitely more than I will ever know about patent law, so I'm not going to
run around passing judgement on companies based on a field I'm clearly not an
expert in.

~~~
jamesbanner
Agree with your views fully. The article is nothing more than fanboyism at
it's best.

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ap3
"Apple is an amazing marketer"

Love how he tries to downplay Apple engineering by bringing up marketing.

IMO Apple is one of the top engineering companies around. Others mention their
innovative design but look at how they engineer their products to fit into the
design aesthetic.

I do wish most of these superficial software pattents would go away, but don't
say Apple is not innovative

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anko
in closing, he said; "I close by asking this: If Apple products are so
innovative, why doesn't Apple compete rather than litigate?"

I believe (and I'm not a lawyer) that you need to actively enforce your design
patents or they expire.

That said, I think patents in their current form are stupid, and patent reform
is necessary.

In the general sense, I believe Apple does innovate. Having their magsafe
power adapter has safed my laptop countless times. They didn't invent magnetic
power cables, but they are the first (and only that I know of) to do it in
laptops.

Where

