
Gainesville, Florida, put its internal emails online with few limits - danso
https://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/story/news/local/solutions-journalism/2019/09/05/gainesville-florida-put-its-internal-emails-online-making-residents-angry-frustrating-journalists/2196171001/
======
secstate
As a public official in a small town, I have thought about doing this before.
The legal issues always come up. But I also think that the people upset with
the exposure after emailing public officials maybe don't fully understand that
anything you communicate to a public official is defacto public and can be
requested from anyone at anytime. The alternatives to that default are
terrible for public confidence in officials.

~~~
Keverw
Nice to see public officials understanding this stuff :)

So many cities have people untrained on this sort of stuff, I know there's
been cities or other departments in cities deleting Facebook comments, and
there's been some lawsuits over that. I kinda always got a feeling public
officials feel like they are gods and above the law. Plus I think local
officials can get away with things more compared to say a congress person or
president since stuff they say and do have a bigger spot light on them.
Probably more corruption happens at the local level is an assumption I've
always had.

Then if you go on YouTube can find tons of videos where cops or city officials
get mad at being filmed, people go into the lobby of their local city and film
the clerk there and some of them freak out or even goes as far as assaulting
the camera person. However, I think some of those YouTubers though do it just
to kinda just stir things up to see how people react so they'll get views, but
technically it's still a first amendment protected activity.

~~~
jawns
> some of those YouTubers though do it just to kinda just stir things up to
> see how people react so they'll get views, but technically it's still a
> first amendment protected activity.

These are popularly known as First Amendment Audits, and there are some
riveting ones on YouTube. I know it may seem like they're trying to cause
trouble, but in almost all cases, they're really just trying to determine
whether constitutionally protected activities are being respected as such.
But, honestly, the videos that show unconstitutional treatment are the most
interesting to watch.

~~~
Keverw
Yep, I watched some before and got distracted watching them for days once
since YouTube starts showing them everywhere like on the home page if you
watch a few. Kinda gets you in a very depressed mood by how these people get
treated for filming and exercising their rights but even some of the people
filming I think are wrong too. Like some are very professional acting though,
sorta like what an investigative journalist would be doing but some are kinda
punks and just cussing and making fun of people though doing their jobs like
even unelected employees. I mean sure you can cuss and flip people off since
it's your right as speech but I kinda like the idea of respect and treating
people how you'd want to be treated. I guess one of those pick your own
battles type of things.

But also watching them it makes me wonder if sworn police officers even have
read the constitution, or just raised their hands and repeated what they were
told during the swearing-in ceremony ... Then some of them seem to think the
first amendment only applies if you work for the local news outlet such as
channels like 2, 5, 7 or 12, etc... Like in some of the videos cops ask what
news station or paper they work for. On the other hand though maybe the cops
know anyways but try to use it as an intimidation tactic. Kinda like if you
even know your basic civil rights, and start trying to exercise them they ask
if you are some lawyer or something or if you are young ask if you are some
law student. I guess they think only lawyers can know the law?

~~~
ficklepickle
I believe that YouTube's algorithm can exacerbate mental health issues.
Watching too much dark or otherwise unsettling material can absolutely lead to
a downward mental health spiral for some people.

After many years of dealing with mental health issues, I am constantly
monitoring the effect that my behaviors and activities are having on my mental
state. I have personally experienced watching YouTube contribute to a decline
in my mental health.

I've developed a few strategies for mitigating this:

First off, I monitor my urges and behavior for warning signs. If I find myself
drawn to dark or unsettling things, I try to determine the contributing
factors. Often, I come up with things going on in my life or unmet needs that
are likely contributing factors which I can then work on addressing, or at the
very least acknowledging.

Second, I only watch YouTube videos via the web interface while not logged in
to a google account, with cookies being discarded at the end of the browsing
session via incognito mode or a temporary browser profile. This helps ensure
that any darkness I stumble into doesn't follow me around and drag me down. It
does result in YouTube's recommendations being useless, but useless > harmful
IMO.

Take care of yourself. This pandemic is not only going to be hard on physical
health. My email is in my profile if you ever wanna chat about anything at
all.

~~~
Keverw
Thanks, yeah I feel depression is more of a symptom that something is wrong in
your life, but I guess for some people even if you gave them a million
dollars, they still wouldn't be happy. There are problems in this world (both
inside and outside the US) that's bigger than me, along with other things that
bother me but I guess not much control over that, so I find myself focusing on
something else to distract me.

I use a Chrome Extension Distraction Free YouTube, even non-depressing topics
it gets distracting like tech or gaming stuff. I try to use YouTube mostly to
look up a topic I'm interested in like programming or tech talks, etc but some
people I like their vlogs so I hit the bell button and have Gmail auto-apply a
label...

I wish though services had a way to turn off things like related videos, etc
though or some settings to show only if you reveal it - not sure the best idea
from UX. Same with Quora or any other type of site, curious about something
and then related questions distract. I guess they design them to be addicted
and time sucks though, since more time you spend in the site it benefits their
metrics and ad revenue.

I've been toying around with a product idea I have in my head but still super
early but since I'm a fan of the freemium model and hopes to sell
services/digital products on the platform, advertising or related content
wouldn't be as important since I'd hope to actually have a thing of value to
charge for, however, I feel ads if done tastefully and related content can add
value, and maybe you're bored and want to find something to do... but if you
use the platforms for both fun and education or work that can be distracting.
Not sure if many platforms have attempted to tackle that problem much though.

I guess though doing less of these things that platforms do or give people
more controls, probably would tick off your VC firm or shareholders as they'd
see money being left on the table even if you were still profitable without
it. Then there's dark patterns too. Like some game on my iPhone, is having a
sale and as soon as I open it pops up a screen to buy gems, which is great way
to get someone to accidentally spend their money I think. If I want to buy
gems, I'll click the button myself... Actually very temped to uninstall it
just for that reason.

------
turbinerneiter
Meanwhile, in Germany, 2 ministers (one acting, one former) have wiped their
phones, including text messages, although there were ongoing investigations in
misconduct.

These are the people who are now using Corona to gain access to our location
data collected by our phones. One set of rules for the rich, one set of rules
for the poor.

~~~
aleksaxyz
Please be specific? I looked up "Germany ministers wiped phone" and saw a
story about how the overall Defense Ministry wiped a phone of someone related
to military contracts. What does that have to do with COVID-19 and data
collection?

~~~
xnyan
I would assume they are referring to the to the widespread [1,2,3] use of data
gathered from smartphones for getting epidemiological data. Every nation is
doing it.

I would say it's not a great comparison, bad actors wiping their phone is not
the same as gathering of bulk data to address a pandemic.

1) [https://www.technologyreview.com/s/615329/coronavirus-
south-...](https://www.technologyreview.com/s/615329/coronavirus-south-korea-
smartphone-app-quarantine/)

2)
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2020/03/14/coronavir...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2020/03/14/coronavirus-
spy-apps-israel-joins-iran-and-china-tracking-citizens-smartphones-to-fight-
covid-19/#5e444c31781b)

3) [https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200330/United-States-
tra...](https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200330/United-States-tracking-
mobile-phones-to-map-spread-of-COVID-19.aspx)

~~~
jacobush
Sweden is not using smartphone or base station location data for tracking of
Corona.

[https://www.datainspektionen.se/nyheter/coronaviruset-och-
di...](https://www.datainspektionen.se/nyheter/coronaviruset-och-digital-
smittsparning/)

------
tomatotomato37
Transparency does have its pros & cons. One of the reasons for the whole
Florida Man meme is because of Florida's powerful Sunshine laws that make
police reports easily accessible to the public

~~~
BubRoss
This sounds all pro to me.

~~~
kreitje
Yes and no. I have received a handful of requests from lawyers to remove their
clients charges from a news aggregator I ran. All of them had their charges
dropped but when potential employers were searching them online they would
come across the booking information.

------
Spooky23
It's a big money saver probably.

FOIA laws usually make most of this stuff public anyway, except you run it
through lawyers and waste alot of time and energy. PII shouldn't be in email
anyway.

~~~
saila
Most people still think email is private for whatever reason.

City and other government contact pages should have big red flags making it
clear that your correspondence could be made public at any time.

Even the record of correspondence with a government agency should be
considered PII and/or sensitive, depending on the agency and subject matter.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Florida government websites do have these warnings, as well as in email auto
responders.

------
newfeatureok
Florida gets a lot of flak but this is good. Transparency is the only way to
fight corruption. The only real downside to such absolute transparency like
this is that most people don't want to be accountable.

~~~
Ididntdothis
I am not sure if this really fights corruption. It may also lead to a
situation where official communication will be sanitized and the real stuff
gets pushed to private channels.

------
CapriciousCptl
A problem with complete transparency like this in our new era of yellow
journalism is bad actors can cherry pick basically anything and get pageviews
and mindshare by manufacturing outrage. Moreover, the kinds of things that are
legitimately controversial get moved to other mediums.

~~~
BubRoss
People might even make hyperbolic assumptions about the future while preying
on uncertainty.

------
ocdtrekkie
This reminds me of politicians "going transparent" in The Circle. I would
loathe to be in a position where every casual conversation I had was subject
to public scrutiny.

~~~
aleksaxyz
Having worked in the public sector in the U.S., email conversations are
sterile for the fact that they are always potentially accessible through
Freedom of Information Act requests. No one's having thoughtful and personal
conversations over internal emails.

But there does need to be a warning to the public that their emails are going
to be public. Just so they aren't surprised and can schedule a call instead of
going into detail via email.

~~~
Alex3917
> But there does need to be a warning to the public that their emails are
> going to be public.

It seems like Gmail et al. could just add a popup warning folks before sending
anything to a .gov email. Folks running their own email servers hopefully know
better already.

~~~
inetknght
> _It seems like Gmail et al. could just add a popup warning folks before
> sending anything to a .gov email._

If I'm not mistaken, Gmail _also_ keeps a record of your emails too, does it
not?

------
jotakami
I’m a resident of Gainesville and I was completely unaware of this. Now I know
not to send anything sensitive to a local government email address...

~~~
cool_dude85
In Florida, almost anything you send to any level of state or local government
is public. If you're a customer of GRU, it's very likely that I could request
your last year of bills, your address (if I know your name), etc. There are
definitely some drawbacks of the very broad public records laws here.

------
wyxuan
They mentioned Palo Alto, and I think it's a decent example. If you email Citi
council, your email will be printed out and made accessible during council
meeting and also made public. However, the sheer volume of email and the
obscurity surrounding the existence of this public email makes it very non
controversial.

------
qznc
What is the matter with losing a little bit of privacy? You have nothing to
hide, don't you? /s

------
iveqy
Even if Sweden doesn't have a webpage for this, anyone can request anything
[https://www.government.se/emails-to-the-government-and-
minis...](https://www.government.se/emails-to-the-government-and-ministries/)

