
Ask HN: Do kids make you happier? - tyrex2017
Below are my 2 cents on the topic, but I would love to read anno-2020 views as I need to decide at some point.<p>I think there are 2 things why people like having a child (after it is there):<p>1. You have someone who loves you which is typically a plus<p>2. You have someone who needs you, thus giving you a higher purpose in your life: to care for it<p>Thus, the fewer loving relationships you expect to have and the less purpose or goals you have in life the more benefits a child brings you.<p>The more loving relationships you have and the more purpose you have already the less benefits a child brings you.
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jetti
In my almost 2 years as a parent I say no. I love my son and he makes me laugh
a bunch and is such a sweet little guy but the minute he was born my life is
no longer mine, it revolved around him. There are late, sleepless nights and
the unpredictability of a toddler means that planning get togethers or any
kind of event gets complicated.

Another thing, there is no guarantee you will feel a connection with your kid,
especially as a male. It took about a month and a half before I felt a
connection and it was incredibly hard to get up late at night with a screaming
baby that meant nothing to me. There were times I wanted to just open the
window and throw him out. From the reading I did, there are men who have not
even felt a connection after 5 years. Could you imagine having to take care of
a child who you feel nothing for? That doesn't sound like happiness to me.

Like others have said, it looks like you are looking more so for a pet than a
child. Though, if you would be up for it I am sure there are mentoring
programs (such as Big Brothers Big Sisters program) where you could have a
meaningful impact on a child's life with the ability to walk away if it isn't
for you.

~~~
codingdave
It gets better once they are past the toddler years. Parents with young
children sometimes don't realize that a day will come when they'll be
independent enough to just tell you "I'm going to the park, see ya later", and
you say "OK!", and when most of your day is your own again.

I'd agree that no, they do not make you happier for the first couple years.
But then they do make you happy when they are between 4 and 12. Then teenagers
are tough again. My own parents tell me it is pretty great when they are
adults.

Overall, if my kids are I are both in the world for 50-60 shared years
together (hopefully), the 40-50 good years totally make the 5-10 tough years
worth it.

~~~
jokab
12 yo daughter. Seems like yesterday she was my baby girl. Now shes an
emotional roller coaster.

There is a good analogy I heard from her schoolmaster about handling kids her
age.

The swimming pool analogy.

People in the swimming pool gets tired and comes to the side rails to catch
their breath. When they're ready, they kick the walls to go back to the deeper
end of the pool.

The walls are us parents and when they kick us is when our kids go back to
their friends to hang out and such.

When they go to rest on the sides is my kid telling me about her day and all.
Its just brief but I couldn't be any happier.

The kicking part ranges from "your annoying stop talking to me" to completely
ignoring and switching back to discord mode to talk to friends.

It hurts quite a bit when they do that we even end up fighting. But after
hearing this analogy I now know how to feel and react.

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probinso
You're describing a dog.

Kids are orders of magnitude more in all sorts of ways. Kids give the
opportunity to learn so much about the world and yourself. They are so much
work. They're also individuals.

thinking about kids in the context of benefits, proportioned relationships,
and happiness probably means that you don't really want them. At least it
means that you have a lot more thinking to do.

If you have more thinking to do, I would suggest talking to friends who are
parents. Also babysitting or teaching at multiple ages.

~~~
gremlinsinc
I'm not sure I wanted kids, i did for a long time, when i was more religious,
but after leaving Mormonism was like eh... whatever. Wife was born to be a mom
though, so we kept doing fertility treatments and got two little boys.

FFS, I almost missed out on this dad thing? Scares the shit out of me, I could
be so callous about the best thing ever in my life. I'd probably steal a nuke
or something and attack china if anything happened to my kids (sarcasm), but
seriously. They brighten up my day most of the times I see them (when they're
not sending me into a rage because there's baking chocolate everywhere lol).

tldr; Dadhood scared me, worried me, and I started getting comfortable as a
childless person, but wouldn't trade being a dad for a million dollars. Not
even a billion.

~~~
agent008t
When did you start feeling like this? As in, what age were your kids?

With toddlers, how were the responsibilities split between you and your wife?
I am assuming she was delighted with having kids since she wanted it so much?

I'm just wondering if you got to enjoy the good parts and mostly avoid the bad
parts.

~~~
probinso
I can't speak for this person, but my life totally flipped around when I had
the opportunity to participate in a kid's life. I had been always interested
in helping to raise a kid, but never really worked towards it seriously. I
started a relationship with someone 2 months after they had given birth. I
tried to adopt as much responsibility as was appropriate while I was
available, but with a young relationship and some logistical concerns there
were reasonable limits to that participation. What I can say is that there
were no bad part. Things got hard, but there is something powerful in needing
to rise to such an occasion. What I have recognized is that I am bad with
kids, but good with individuals. As soon as I changed my perspective that this
person was an individual not a kid, there's a lot more capacity to our shared
environment. I had to make this realization very quickly. I had the
opportunity to participate for 2 years. I would Never give up that time

~~~
agent008t
"Raising a kid" sounds alright. The gritty details of changing nappies,
feeding, cleaning up, dealing with a toddler that is not really yet a person
for years - day in day out, with little sleep - that does not sound good at
all. If all that implementation can be abstracted away, and you get to spend a
few hours with them in the evenings + weekends, then I see how it could be a
great experience.

~~~
probinso
All of those things were part of what I did, as well as cleaning the house in
evenings, planning activities/trips, hospital visits, managing travel, bottle
prep/cooking, playdates. I would stay for multiple days (typically 4-7 at a
time) in a row every time we were together. Often create an environment for my
partner to take a day or two off. They are an individual much earlier than you
would expect. I concede I would get a ~2 weeks off in between to catch up on
work and grad school, in a different city. They were always on, which is way
more work.

Hardest part was that I had to relearn everything often, cuz if it's not
everyday it doesn't stick with you the same way, and you have to catch up to
the kids new preferences.

------
AnimalMuppet
Kids eat your time and your brain. If you focus on that - on what you're
losing - then kids will be very difficult. If you look instead at what you're
getting - love, smiles, someone who looks up to you - then it can be great.

I spent way too much time looking at what I was losing, rather than on what I
was gaining. It's a waste, and it makes you miserable. Don't do that.

~~~
gremlinsinc
Very true. I was worried about what we'd be giving up. We waited a long time
because of fertility issues, but I started to get tired of the doctors visits,
and everything and was ready to quit, at 38, after 13 years it gets tiring.

Then we got two sons round 8 and 10 of IVF. When your kid walks up to you and
says "I love you daddy" and gives you a big hug, when you're having a rough
day, best feeling in the entire world. Nothing tops it. Not romantic love or
sexual pleasure or delicious food. The love of a child, who accepts you and
thinks you're the best thing in the world and trusts you with their life even
though you know how flawed that is...lol It's hard to explain the feeling.

I feel like I'm having hormonal issues cause I get teary eyed whenever there's
a sad or happy moment between father/child on tv, and I go into an absolute
rage when I see a child in danger, hurt, molested either in fiction or news
media. I think of all the things I'd do to the perp if that were my kid, and
it isn't pleasant.

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avenger123
You've asked a question without an easy answer and answers that will be
different for everyone.

It's easy to live life in our society where we are the center of our own
universe. Having a child disrupts this notion quite radically. Your life is
still your own but now a child is affected by what actions you take. So you
now have a responsibility to this other human being. Every person handles this
responsibility differently. One way to look at this responsibility is
transactional. I think your two points fall into this category.

Another way to handle this responsibility is to understand that child is now
dependent on you and is an extension of you in every way. They will grow up to
be become their own but you played a significant part in bringing them into
this world and have a significant role in shaping them. Their happiness is
your happiness and your happiness is their happiness. And unfortunately,
sometimes it's the deepest unhappiness and tragedy that any human can face. I
consider anyone that has healthy children with being greatly blessed.

So to answer your question, yes, kids can make you extremely happy and kids
can also make you extremely miserable. Where you land on this depends on so
many factors,some that are in your control and others that are not.

One thing I will say is that we can choose to be a parent but we don't choose
our children. They can be born healthy or extremely unhealthy with a terminal
disease, or other medical conditions. It's a gamble. Raising a healthy child
will certainly have a higher chance of being happier. Raising an unhealthy
child would certainly be in the range of unhappiness to abject grief.

I speak from personal experience but I can say that a relationship with a
child isn't the same as other loving relationships in ones life. I don't know
how to articulate this but being a father or mother brings out the best in us
more so than other relationships. I can say I have experienced a fuller life
as a result of being a parent (with measures of happiness and unhappiness). I
am more human as a result of being a parent.

------
htanirs
Have two kids. They have been my antidote so far. There are tough moments,
additional responsibility and finance one needs to account for. But overall I
feel grateful I have them.

Also I don't have a purpose based on parenting. I am just happy to be around
them and try to be a good parent. It is nice to share things that I wish I had
known from young age. Things that help you deal with life but are never
taught.

Also I feel other relationships do not compensate the love we give and get
from our children. It is very unique.

All being said I think it is good to be open minded about expectations.
Children are unique and the relationship may flourish or take a sour turn
depending on circumstances.

On whether one decides to have kids or not, I think there are no wrong
decisions here.

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rawgabbit
Your child may not necessarily make you happy. As a parent, it is your
responsibility to take care of your child and not the other way around.

------
spicyramen
Having a kid is not like having a dog. So don't use it. Before I have kids I
read, I ask and the only thing I learn was that having a child is not easy.
Actually is very very hard: they need you for fun, for food, for clothing,
protection, guidance, role model, money, etc from the moment they are born
till very late age. Your partner relationship is going to change and the new
focus is the baby. A child is not a benefit is a person so you cant.really
give them a value. For everyone means something different, for me it means
giving an extra 200% so I can provide the best opportunities and I can spend
the most time with him.

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ratsmack
The most fulfilling thing I've had in my 66 years on this planet is raising my
three boys. Even with all of the bumps in the road along the way it was well
worth the effort, and especially now that I have four grandkids.

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steve90
I've enjoyed having children but they are extremely hard work and you need to
accept that their needs take priority over your own. Very few people are able
to maintain any significant hobbies or social life, at least when the children
are young. There will be some extremely tough times - up all night, illnesses,
tantrums etc. and sometimes you just need to grit your teeth and get through
it. At other times you will experience love and joy which is unlike anything
else you have felt before.

------
Gustomaximus
2 kids, 8 & 11

Happier, not sure. I think its gives higher highs and lower lows to life whist
becoming more content with it all, though maybe the latter is age.

More content I think. More purpose to many things.

I think they have helped my partner and I settle down more. Enjoy a quieter
and a simpler life.

They add meaning to things.

Definitely more tired and time poor.

I've said before kids are 70/30 in good bad they bring to our life.

If I was doing over, I would start earlier and have more.

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souprock
Perhaps I am an expert, with 12 kids so far.

I think "happier" is kind of vague. It could include being content, joyful,
less depressed, amused, and more.

You often won't get #1. Kids can be cruel to parents.

You'll have better luck with #2. Life without kids could seem pretty
pointless. I never could imagine that life. What do you do that isn't just
empty hedonism?

~~~
gt2
Did you always want to have many kids, or more after you started having them?

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sunstone
Apparently kids make you happier once they are over 5 years old. That is, once
they are eligible for the state baby sitting service, oh I meant to say,
public school system.

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diehunde
I don't have kids and I'm pretty happy in general. I wouldn't risk that
happiness and stability for something I'm not sure I want. I think if I ever
want kids but it's too late it would suck. But it wouldn't make me depressed.
On the other hand if I have kids and I don't like it there's just no way
around. You're stuck for many, many, many years.

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troydavis
Dan Gilbert talks a lot about the science behind this:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwQFSc9mHyA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwQFSc9mHyA)

The part about kids starts here:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwQFSc9mHyA&t=770](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwQFSc9mHyA&t=770)

~~~
zurfer
worth watching. short summary: on average marriage makes people happy for some
years, money makes you happy (but with highly diminishing return over
$75k/year), kids do not make you happy (on average). But highs are higher, and
humans remember the highs better, so looking back you might think you were
happier, although you weren't.

------
thorin
Children made me happier than I ever thought I could be.

Children made me more miserable than I ever thought I'd be.

Children broke up the most important relationship I've ever had.

Children give me the strength to carry on, and improve myself.

My dad recently asked if I ever thought about walking out on them. I told him
I enjoy the challenge and I appreciate the opportunity.

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a-saleh
I would say the event of having your own child is probably the highest stakes
on the most personal scale you can get.

I have a kid (6yo), I have definitely found a lot of my happiness in being her
father, but I see it as a giant responsibility first.

Like, it is amazing, and I see I get, as you'd say a lot of benefits, but the
lens you view it seems weirdly side-ways.

Counter point, the fewer loving relationship and purpose you have in life, the
harder is to raise your child, the more loving relationships and purpose you
have in life, the easier and more rewarding it can be.

(Counter-counter point, yes, you can have many loving relationships and great
purpose and goals in life that would be anathema to raising a child)

I'd say, go talk to your friends that already are parents? This seems to be
one of those conversations that deserve full attention of a in-person
conversation.

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gremlinsinc
Wife wanted kids since we got married. Infertility made it nearly impossible,
but after 8 rounds of IVF we finally got one, then round 9 was a dud, but
round 10 was our 2nd.

I often wavered and thought, I'm cool not having kids. Now that I have them,
it's a totally different thing.

You become someone completely different. You live for nothing else but seeing
what new cute thing your kid does today. The other day my 1.5 year old took
his sock off and said "I did IT!" in a partial squeal. Cutest fucking thing I
ever saw.

Sometimes they make your life a living hell, but you get to see them make
choices, and decisions and in a way you get to live your life again through
them.

When our first was born, I had deep bouts of depression. The only thing that
could bring me out of them was just cuddling with him on the couch. You look
down at this little guy who needs you for everything, and its hard to be
selfish and think of self-harm. I got therapy and stuff, and found out i had
ADHD and my lack of focus was causing my depression. Been better ever since,
even lost 90 pounds.

Lots of people probably feel the opposite that kids hold them back, but some
people just aren't meant to have kids. Some people are so mad that schools are
closed because they have no clue how to be a parent and be with their kids
extra time (the ones who were already homemakers or stay-at-home or had the
money to afford to, not the ones who need schools for childcare to work).

I mean a lot of people try to spend as little time w/ their kids during the
week as possible and do a family activity on Saturday and that's that. So,
it's definitely a tough decision. Like I said, I wasn't really sure anymore,
esp w/ my depression and stuff, but wife insisted so I kept signing the
paperwork and paying the bills. Now, I'd not change a thing and can't imagine
what I'd do without my two little boys. I get teary eyed with parent/child
bonding crap now, and songs about fatherhood like Fade in / Fade out. It
really messes up your sentimentality switches in the head.

------
marviio
The question sounds individualistic. More than what it gives to ME I think
about what it means for US as a couple. Our children are the fruit of our
union. Family is such a basic concept, engraved, at least in me. A man and a
woman (in our case) who promise to be true to one another and bring new life
into the world. "Purpose" is almost a too small word, I guess it's
archetypical. Maybe we are old-fashioned but for us marriage and bringing
children into the world is The Thing. "What's in it for me?" is a poison.

~~~
agent008t
That sounds more like a religious belief than a philosophy you have
consciously arrived at.

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kohanz
The two points only consider the child loving and needing the parent, but the
love you'll feel as a parent for a child is like no other love you'll feel in
life. Not that it's "better" than love for a soulmate, relative, or friend,
but it's different and in a class of its own.

This also seems to miss is the journey. Raising children is a challenging,
varied, rollercoaster experience. It's nearly impossible to go through it
without growing tremendously as a person. In most cases, kids will help you
become a better version of yourself.

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rman666
A child is not a pet. Please do not refer to a child as “it.”

Being a parent is an major commitment for the rest of your life. Many people
think it is an 18 year commitment. That’s just the start. Many of your most
important contributions as a parent will take place after your child is
already a legal adult. The same is true for many of your most rewarding
moments.

The decision to have a child should not be, “Will a child make me happier?” It
should be, “Am I ready to put someone else’s needs before my wants for a
significant portion of the rest of my life?”

~~~
tyrex2017
Point taken, I just wanted to use a shorter version than her/his

~~~
sethammons
Meh. My grandma loved babies. Each and every one of them was an “it.” “What is
it’s name?” “How old is it?”

------
RemingtonLak
Your assessment is the most astute observation I've ever read about what a
child means to you. wow.

For me, it's the former where the child will bring me more/higher purpose to
my life.

I am a father to a 1yr. I've never felt (never having a pet) unconditional
love. My boy (currently ;-) does not care how much I have or make, what I look
like or my personality outside of not mistreating him. In return, he gives me
a look, a hug, and a kiss that is undeniable unconditional love. My wife's
look, hug and kiss are "conditional." ;-)

Before going any further, let me preface with my thoughts about family; I've
never experienced a family. I grew up in a broken one where I was physically
abused and I ran away at 18. Before having my child in my 40's, I did _not_
want to be a father incase I became what my father was.....resentful, hate
filled, neglecting asswipe. Having grown up in that environment, I wanted to
make a difference to children who may be in the same or worse situation. So I
volunteered to became Big Brother to 3 fatherless boys in my 20's. I grew
up...fast. Kids are special and found out just being there for them is good
enough to make you Superman. That's all it took. No need to lecture or do
psycho analysis to make the "better", but instead just being there was all
they needed. PS> the 3 boys became my grooms men.

Does my child make me happier? yes and no. Happiness with a child is a
weighted question. Does my child make me happy? yes. Does he make me happier?
difficult to answer but I lean towards no.

I think the answers to your question will be weighted by: what age you had the
child, where are you in your career, are you happy with yourself and your
life, do you love your wife and extended family? Will your child be a trophy
you craft or someone you mentor allowing them to grow based on your
influences?

Am I happy right this minute? Well, it's 2am, I just got finished cleaning his
playarea of dried up breast milk and food, cleaned all of his bottles and
toys, prepared meals for him for next few days and to top all that off, he
just woke up crying in the middle unexpectedly. No reason why. FYI I'm a
fulltime dad.

Is the happiness so strong it can overcome the hardship of doing something
that doesn't come with instructions? this very minute; no. Tomorrow morning
when he wakes up cooing at you? yes.

Lastly.. omg. Can't wait for him to turn at least 5 if not 7ish for this first
Disney World trip and start on the Star Wars series of films :) Having high
expectations that he will like the same...I'm over the moon about my potential
happiness. I can only hope but never force. He needs to lead the way to his
happiness...not mine.

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tmaly
I would say no. It’s different though. You have your hands full when they are
young. You get to have at most one hobby if you are lucky.

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nradov
Your question appears to be based on an unstated assumption that happiness is
a desirable goal. Have you really thought that through?

~~~
tyrex2017
thats a good point

i dont make that assumption. just wanted to keep the topic simpler.

i agree, on the other hand, that my question is just one factor among a few
when deciding on whether to have children

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thelastinuit
No idea. Have never felt that hmmm wanted kids. I dont have many friends. All
of them have kids now. They seem happy.

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muzani
I think it's a bit outside our social models. The Western capitalist model
says that the more luxuries and security you have, the happier you are.
Children give you less. And therefore children make you unhappy. Asian model
adds a little twist on this - children take care of you as you get older and
they're a retirement fund.

But no, that's not it. Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs add another model - humans
need love, a sense of belonging, esteem, and self-actualisation. A cat/dog
will give the first three, a career gives the last. Being loved is nice, but
honestly I feel like you get more love from a spouse than from kids (death
mourning lengths of child vs widow reflects this). So that's not entirely it.

I think it's simply that we're happier giving than taking. Maybe it's more fun
to give gifts than receive them. It's more fun feeding a child than being fed.
It's also the joys of teaching, where you're imparting information to someone
and happy when they do something with it.

My happiest times are lying in bed, looking at my phone, together with my 2
year old who's also looking at her phone. This doesn't seem like anyone's idea
of happiness, but it works for me.

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AliBoukeroui
kids are blessing :)

