

Announcing HackStars - brianculler
http://www.techstars.org/2009/04/03/anouncing-hackstars/
You do some unpaid programming for interesting TechStars startups, in exchange for the ability to listen to other startups get advice about their startups.  Can't wait to sign up!
======
mechanical_fish
If you're going to donate this much of your time, spend it writing open source
software. Stuff that you can take with you. Stuff that will remain in your
toolkit and in your portfolio until _you_ decide otherwise.

------
akeefer
In general, any sort of unpaid internship biases against people who aren't
well enough off to work for free (i.e. whose parents won't support them while
they do). It's really a kind of class discrimination that prevents people from
lower socioeconomic standing from having much of a chance at certain jobs
(like in the finance world) that tend to rely heavily on unpaid internships.

One thing I've always liked about my profession is that we tend not to do that
in the software industry, which I think makes it more egalitarian and at least
helps open up opportunities to people who actually do need to get paid for the
summer. It's disappointing to see a reversal in that trend.

~~~
BobbyH
Besides any ethical considerations about class-discrimination, unpaid
internships are illegal unless the intern gets class credit, because it is a
violation of minimum wage laws. Calling a job an "unpaid internship" does not
revoke the minimum wage laws. However, these laws are not enforced, which
results in more and more companies offering unpaid internships...

~~~
gojomo
IANAL, but I believe a strict literal enforcement of minimum-wage laws also
prohibits founders working for their own corporation without salary. (Equity
doesn't count for minimum wage calculations.)

Much of the bootstrapped-startup culture we celebrate may thus rely on lax
enforcement of these laws.

~~~
BobbyH
Good point, but only employees must be paid the minimum wage. If you founded
the company, you are not an employee because you direct your work. The IRS
says an employee is "anyone who performs services for an organization is an
employee if the organization can control what will be done and how it will be
done" (<http://www.irs.gov/charities/article/0,,id=131137,00.html>).

~~~
gojomo
But as soon as you incorporate, take on cofounders and investors, and adopt a
title, you're essentially working at the direction of the organization. Your
equity is likely subject to a vesting schedule and (given the right
constellation of agreement among the other founders and investors) you could
even be 'let go'.

Also, the IRS doesn't enforce minimum wages and labor laws, so its definitions
aren't necessarily relevant. (For example, it will tax equity compensation
that doesn't count toward minimum wage calculations.)

So you may be right, but I'm not yet convinced. The strict letter of the law
seems to suggest that corporations must pay even their founders minimum wages.

And if there's some 'bright-line' rule that clearly tells us when this is not
the case, I've never heard it. (For example, if "5%" is traditionally enough
ownership, by statute or administrative ruling, to count someone as an owner
rather than employee, that would be very good to know -- you could have
exactly 20 equal founders and no investors and still have founders bootstrap
with their own donated labor.)

~~~
wheels
I'm pretty sure it's tricker than that because there are a number of high
profile executives with their $1 salaries and now even some of the bank folks
that are in non-executive positions that have elected to take no salary. It
seems like those would be more prone to scrutiny than unpaid interns.

------
mechanical_fish
Any software startup that would accept an "intern" on the team is failing one
test of viability. The last thing you need in startups is more than one level
of hierarchy. [1] You don't want people to expend valuable mental and
emotional energy trying to figure out if task X is "right" for a mere intern,
or if it's really important not to have conversation Y in front of the intern,
or (in general) whether or not the intern is really a member of the team. One
likely result is that your team will not gel. Another is that the team will
gel, but suffer a breakdown when the intern inevitably quits. A third is that
the team will defend itself by shutting out the intern, assigning him or her
to go mend broken XHTML tags or make coffee while everyone else does the real
work. Which is another good reason not to be that intern. ;)

Interns are for big companies, where they make only a tiny marginal
contribution to the already massive political overhead. ;)

\---

[1] Two levels, if absolutely necessary. But the best leaders are the ones who
always manage to convey the feeling that it's _really_ only one, that they're
only the leader because _somebody_ has to have their name on that line of the
corporate charter and be forced to take tedious phone calls from big clients.

I can also attest that, if it grows, eventually your software startup _will_
need a hierarchy. But at the beginning it's probably just unnecessary
friction.

~~~
jeremytliles
I think this is a great point. At the stage a TechStars company is at, they
need founders and advisors. Anything else is going to create inefficiencies.
And if they're lacking in hacking talent such that they _need_ one of these
interns, then they just don't have the right founder mix.

If a team is missing some key capabilities for producing a functioning
prototype, then it should bring someone else in and provide some equity.

------
kapitti
$6,000/founder and as many 0.375 FTE slaves as they can round up - MBAs around
the globe rejoice, TechStars has solved the "I've got this amazing idea, if
only I could find some developers" problem.

~~~
dasil003
How many do you think they'll round up? If I was fresh out of college and
didn't need any money I'd just start my own and hang out at the meetups
instead of working for free for someone who may or may not have a clue.

------
feverishaaron
I am going to reserve judgement on this for now, but I am really going to be
surprised if this works out well for the TS companies. The old adage, "you get
what you pay for" is especially true with developers/UI designers who are
interested in startups. Without some sort of compensation, whether it be cash
money or equity, I wonder if you are going to get the "right" kind of
interest.

You have to ask yourself, who is their target talent here?

The real talented AND motivated developers/designers in Boulder and probably
Boston (AKA "The Gurus"), who have an affinity for startups and TechStars
probably applied to the program themselves and didn't get in. Either way, they
know the value of their time and are hard at work on their own startups.

The other talented and motivated people are probably consultants or working
full time at a company. Despite this being a poor economy, I've found that
there is no shortage of work for the "right" people.

And of course, there are a fair share of those that fit a combination of the
above.

This leaves us with the last two groups. The people that are either talented
and unmotivated, or lack talent, but have the motivation. My suspicion is that
you will get people volunteering to the HackStars program who are TechStars
fanboys at best. They like the idea of doing a startup, or being a part of the
"startup culture" but in truth may not want to put in the work, or worse, are
benched because no one wants to work with them.

I may be totally wrong. Either way, I don't fault the TechStars team for test
driving an idea like this. But if I were a founder who made it in to the
program, I would be very skeptical of the value of the volunteers.

------
gojomo
Even if this program deserves a critical assessment, that doesn't belong in a
sarcastic headline.

~~~
vegashacker
Agreed. Headlines are not supposed to editorialize. The HN editors should fix
this one.

~~~
brianculler
Yes, lets sanitize and PC everything, instead of calling things like they are.
Read all the other comments in this thread.

~~~
allenbrunson
there is a time and place for everything. everyone is being allowed to express
their opinions. just not in the headline.

snark is never productive. it only serves to harden other people's opinions
against you. if you believe techstars is in the wrong here, you're certainly
not going to change their minds by mocking them.

------
andr
So, like, I can be in the same room with the mentors? WOW!

~~~
evdawg
You mean I'll finally get to meet Paul Graham?! No wait... that's not
TechStars...

------
dawie
I can't help to wonder if adding more people that are "Learning" won't just
get in the way of the founders actually getting work done.

~~~
mahmud
Cf. Fred Brooks.

------
donw
It's all about mutual benefit. For example, I'm going to be doing a few server
installs for a friend while I'm traveling, in exchange for some cycles on
those machines to use for my own project.

My friend is happy, because he doesn't need to spend $2k per server to have an
engineer fly out and install them. I'm happy, because I'll be traveling
anyway, and I get to use a pile of machines around the world without having to
pay for and install them myself.

No money is changing hands, and we both benefit in a way that we find
acceptable.

An unpaid 'internship' for a 'guru'? Fifteen hours a week for no pay and no
equity?

I think not.

------
tptacek
If you really want to commit 15 hours a week to doing free work for an up-and-
coming startup, don't do it this way. Make a list of the top 20 companies
you're fascinated by, and contact them directly, one by one.

If you can't be bothered to "sell" free dev/tech work to the companies you're
most interested in, you're not going to make it as an entrepreneur anyways.

------
mhp
Unpaid internships are becoming EXTREMELY common (if not in the CS field,
certainly elsewhere). In NYC this used to be only the case for fashion, but
has now spread to basically every other industry.

We had a discussion the other day at lunch whether this was legal/ethical. I'm
still not sure how I feel about it...

~~~
physcab
I'm in an unpaid internship right now and I love it. The employer actually
hires most of their talent through the unpaid internship program. They get to
see if the people who do the internship are really there because they want to
learn and contribute regardless of monetary compensation.

I know everyone can't do this because at some point you need compensation, but
the arrangement has taught me a great deal about how to program scalable
applications that I will definitely use in the future.

~~~
mechanical_fish
_I know everyone can't do this because at some point you need compensation_

Which is why using unpaid internships to screen your hires is unethical. It's
an artfully disguised form of class discrimination.

Lots of very smart and hardworking people cannot afford to work for free.
Apparently those people are at a severe disadvantage when applying to work at
your company. And it's not as if unpaid internships offer financial aid, like
schools do.

I think it's fine to screen prospective employees as _paid_ interns. I also
think it's fine to try them out as consultants first, or even to have them
perform a _few_ hours of work for free, as a test. But in general work should
be paid for. Unless, as I've said elsewhere, it is 100% free-software work.

Of course, just because it's unethical doesn't mean it doesn't happen or that
you can do anything to change it.

~~~
physcab
Unethical is way too harsh. This is NOT class discrimination. If you ask
me,judging on the basis of GPA alone is class discrimination. Poor people
don't stand a fighting chance.

But that's a slightly different argument. Unpaid internships don't impose
requirements that would keep you from getting paid elsewhere, so regardless of
your economic situation, you can decide how much you want to work. My employer
doesn't care if you work 30 hours or 2 hours...they just want to see how much
you enjoy doing the work.

Any smart and hardworking individual wouldn't be at a disadvantage because
they could find a way to make it work.

For the record I'm pretty poor myself. I have two jobs to pay my bills. But I
don't see anyone who has significantly more money having more of an advantage
than me.

~~~
mechanical_fish
_they just want to see how much you enjoy doing the work._

Here's what I'd say to that: "I enjoy doing work that _adds value_. If you
have something valuable for me to do for your company, pay me what it is
worth. If not, I'll be happy to sit in your air-conditioned office writing
free software that has value for _me_. And then you will be able to see how
much I enjoy doing that."

But you probably shouldn't say that out loud. You're not in a very strong
negotiating position, after all.

This illustrates another reason why unpaid internship is pernicious: It
doesn't teach _anyone_ how well you add value. Because your time is unmetered
and unpaid, you have no incentive to spend it wisely. And your employer
certainly has no incentive to track it -- at least not out loud. (Imagine the
conversation: "Wow, last week you worked 10 hours for free and saved the
company $100k. Have a muffin!") What, exactly, is either of you learning? I
guess your employer is learning how much value you can be coerced to add, for
free, without you noticing or complaining. And you're learning how to look and
act like a model employee.

Onward. "You can decide how much you want to work?" Yeah, I guess. I could
also "decide" to live in a cardboard box and save on expenses. If I have a
family, I could "decide" to never see them because I have to work two jobs
instead. If I've got elderly parents I could "decide" not to take care of
them.

But, more likely, an unpaid internship requirement will tend to select for
young people with no family and a lot of time to spend at work. How
convenient. Especially since _overtly_ screening your employees for these
traits is against the law.

Do you see why I'm tempted to call this "unethical" yet?

Anyway, none of this is to suggest that _you're_ doing the wrong thing. We
have to live with the hands we're dealt. Congratulations for finding a way
forward, and good luck with your jobs.

~~~
physcab
Wow. You are very passionate about this aren't you? (I'm not being sarcastic,
I really admire you for voicing this).

I guess I just don't see this practice as unethical because if I look at the
whole spectrum of unethical behaviors, this seems very minor to me. Does that
make it excusable? Probably not. But to me this is just about acquiring a
skill which I previously did not have. It's not about recognition or
compensation.

But even still, I fail to see what my employers are doing wrong. You will be
compensated for the skills you bring to the company and what you produce. And
if you're middle aged with a family to support you could get a paid job there
if you had the skills. If not, you could apply for the unpaid internship.

But nothing bars you from getting hired, so that's why I don't view it as an
injustice. At the end of the day, its a choice, and if you didn't like the
terms, you are perfectly free to go somewhere else.

~~~
mechanical_fish
_You are very passionate about this aren't you?_

I went to graduate school. A Ph.D. program is like being an unpaid intern for
_six years_.

(And, yet, in some ways it's better. There is _some_ pay. And a Ph.D. is a
regular old-fashioned apprenticeship program: The bad news is that you're a
slave, but the good news is that your adviser has a fairly strong incentive to
help you graduate. The commitment goes both ways.

And, of course, if you've got an apartment and a web connection you can teach
yourself to be a professional programmer -- _especially_ if you already have a
CS degree -- but you can't say the same for semiconductor engineering.)

------
bhb
(Disclosure: I'm one of the founders of Devver, one of the TechStars 08
companies)

I think that some of the variables will likely need to be adjusted (for
example, 15 hours per week seems high to me), but I think the fundamental idea
is interesting, although it's clearly not for everyone.

At 15 hours a week, it's clear that a volunteer developer is not going to come
close to replacing a technical founder or a full-time employee. Any team that
tries to primarily rely on volunteer developers will suffer for it.

I can imagine this appealing to developers (including those in college) who
are strongly considering doing a startup or working for a startup, but want to
learn more about the process and want to make great contacts (both technical
and business).

There may very well be problems with the quality of some applicants, but
assuming the application process doesn't filter them out, I would guess things
will work themselves out during the summer. That is, the so-so devs will be a
net drain and teams won't ask for their help, while any talented hackers won't
be donating their time for long - they'll quickly get snapped up by the
companies they help out (either during the summer for all equity or after a
funding round for salary + equity).

Of course, this is all speculative. Maybe it won't work at all. But I suspect
that connecting a group of hackers with teams that will, either immediately or
in the near future, want to hire hackers could work out for everyone involved.

~~~
bhb
Just something to consider - there were at least two TechStars 08 teams that
had summer interns that they have hired as employees. Granted, they worked
more than 15 hours per week (and I think one of them was paid, but I'm not
sure). In any case, if HackStars can successfully make more matches like
these, it'd be a good program.

------
bbuffone
Fuck That! - EDIT

I think that they should at least mention what the benefits of such an
arrangement would be. Just hanging out with cool people doing work for free
people isn’t really that beneficial.

Everyone also knows, once a developer starts working on something like this it
will be more than 15 hours of work; they will work all night and day to get
things done. It should be more formal and give the developers something in
return. The companies will be looking to sign up "real advisers" during this
time but they will get something in return. Also this will need to be very
carefully orchestrated because if people are working on things that are
patentable; the volunteers will need to be listed on the patents.

~~~
mechanical_fish
+1, Hilarious Insight Into The Compositional Process

------
bradgessler
Jeff said it best when he was asked the question at an event in Boston, "What
is better, YC or TechStars?"

Jeff's answer: "You can teach a hacker business, but you can't teach a
businessman how to hack".

'nuff said.

~~~
ryanwaggoner
Ah yes...there's something magical about hackers that means they can learn
business, but "businessmen" can never learn the mystical arts of hacking.

Give me a break.

Actually, rather than repeat myself, here's my comment from a couple weeks
ago:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=515978>

~~~
ericb
Magical hits it on the head, except not the way you think. Magical thinking is
what you can't do and be a good hacker. Magical thinking won't stop you from
being a good business person with good instincts for opportunities who
understands the bottom line, or from being a great sales guy who can close
faster than a bank at 4.

The subset of hackers who can learn "business" is greater than the subset of
business people who can be hackers because the particular style of thinking
needed to succeed as a hacker has a unique rigor and need for persistence, and
is comparatively rare.

This is true for comparing any less common skill to a more common one. The
subset of NFL quarterbacks who could be good programmers is surely
proportionally greater than the subset of programmers who could be NFL
quarterbacks.

It isn't all about arrogance (although I don't deny arrogance is a factor).

~~~
mroman
It's not arrogance when it is the truth.

If I could stay awake long enough, that MBA spiel is ELEMENTARY

PLEASE

~~~
unalone
Ah, so you have an MBA? Which you earned while sleeping through that
simplistic spiel? Please talk about your experiences so I can develop a
similar distaste for an oversimplistic overhyped major, or else stop talking
about things you have no personal experience with.

~~~
mroman
(YAWN)

(YYAAAWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNNN)

Here is one you can understand:

Successfully represented myself in US Federal Court as a plaintiff in a civil
rights case, and won! no legal training at all, just read a couple of books,
went at it, won, no help, nothing, just me and a couple of books, oh, and I
did most of this over the US Postal service, while locked up in a US
immigration jail, with a barracks full of neanderthals around me whom I didn't
get along with (but I held my own, no one fd with me), and neanderthals in
uniforms on my case . . . want a docket number? 98-0711-CV-W-2-P Roman v.
Conard, US District Court for the Western District of Missouri, Kansas City,
Missouri . . . Law is at least a somewhat interesting topic that I can
respect, it can at least be intellectually challenging (for some time anyway)
at times . . . but MBA crap? PUUUHLLLLEEEEEZZZZZ PUHLEEZZ

------
gscott
When I went to the Techstars for a Day thing last year I did notice that many
of their teams were light on developers. Several had people who learned to
program right there or one person who could program a little but all had at
least one who knew what he was doing. This may be more of an unofficial way to
fill out the teams a little as someone else noted it would be hard to do only
15 hours a week. Either you are in all the way or your not serious therefor
likely not reliable except maybe as a programming mentor if you drop by once
and awhile.

------
MicahWedemeyer
I think part of the problem is that some hackers might sign up thinking it
will give them an inside track to TechStars in a future round. But, giving 3
months of part time as an uncompensated intern is a high price to pay for the
possibility of a second look at your application.

------
richieb
One problem is that they will not get good developers. According to Joel
Spolsky, good developers never look for jobs (they re always working), so they
are not likely to work for free...

------
brezina
Question - does anyone else get offended by the name "coder" I've always found
that people who write code prefer to be called developers or hackers. I'm a
bit of a hacker myself, so maybe i'm overly sensitive, and i know this is a
small point, but i always feel like the people who use the word "coder," don't
understand them or what they do.

~~~
mechanical_fish
This is offtopic, but...

...the problem, as always, is that the words have different connotations
depending on the community.

As you probably know, the word "hacker" means "computer criminal" to the
majority of the English-speaking world. As a result, calling yourself a
"hacker" only works if (a) you only care about your reputation with other
hackers, or (b) you are trying to cultivate an ambiguously dangerous persona.
It is not a word I would put on my resume if I were applying at SAP, unless I
were already well known for being Steve Wozniak.

So you're down to "programmer", "developer", or "coder". My impression is that
most people use "developer" as a highfalutin synonym for "programmer"... but
in some environments it connotes "a person who spends a lot of time talking
about software but never uses the computer except for Outlook, Office, and
Twitter". So, if you want to emphasize that you actually spend the majority of
your day in emacs, lean towards the other words.

Sometimes "programmer" carries too strong a connotation of "code monkey". I
find it best to just avoid places where this is true.

I don't like the word "coder" -- it doesn't offend me, but it's ugly. So I use
the other words at random as whimsy strikes me.

~~~
brezina
i don't think it is off-topic because "coder" is exactly the terminology the
author used in the blog. I believe it reflects his general misunderstanding of
programmers/developers/hackers

------
jmtame
Here's my initial impression: 15 hours a week? Is that even going to get
anything done?

~~~
quellhorst
Basecamp was made with 10 hours per week. Doubt you'll find a DHH working for
free.

~~~
jmtame
Basecamp is among the only applications I know of that were built on 10 hours
per week (assuming that's true), and even then it was a side project.

Most successful start ups I know of were spending that much time in a single
day.

~~~
colins_pride
The Apple II was a side project

<http://www.foundersatwork.com/steve-wozniak.html>

------
gord
Mind you... it might be much better use of time than jobhunting.

but then you'd have to seriously compare with Open Source contribution - a
faster way to learn, smarter people to work with and more social benefit...

OSS work likely has even more commercial potential...

------
wastedbrains
Um everyone mentions that the money isn't the real value of TS or YC. This
lets hackers that didn't get accepted into the program get many of the
benefits. They get to meet the mentors, see some of the presentations, spend
time working with and getting to know the community. I don't see how that is
considered so much worse of a deal than the actual program. Consider hackers
still in school, hackers not ready to make the leap and start their own
companies...

It seems like an interesting way to become involved and learn a ton about the
start up process.

(disclosure I was part of Techstars 08)

~~~
petewarden
(disclosure, I've received a lot of free help and advice from David Cohen and
Brad Feld, two of the main TS backers)

I would have changed the way they presented this but the idea of opening up
these sort of programs to the wider community is a good one. TechStars offers
a _lot_ of benefits to its members, this is another door to getting involved.

------
hotpockets
I agree working for free would be foolish. But, once you meet your prospective
team just ask them how much equity you'll be able to get. If it doesn't meet
your standards I think you could just say no thanks. Seems like a reasonable
way to join an interesting startup (if there are any interesting ones in their
summer class). If you have actual skills they need, you do have a good
bargaining position.

------
gord
I guess there is a real market niche that ycombinator flushed out-

namely, Impedance matching between -

    
    
      a) investors with too much cash and too little time for small startups
     
      b) startups who don't need or want large amounts of cash
    
    

You'd think it would be more efficient to cut out the middleman, but I guess
the aggregator / 'broker' serves a valuable role, as a retailer.

------
Tichy
Let's have a TV show, I think in the US they are called "American Idol"? In
Germany we have "Germany's Next Topmodel" and "Germany's next Superstar", both
concepts could be easily extended into a show that portrays the making of a
HackStar.

~~~
mroman
I am sorry, that would be NAUSEATING.

------
pclark
wouldn't you agree internships are a good opportunity for students?

Seems like a similar thing but specifically orientated around startups. They
should get (a slither) of equity, maybe..

~~~
endtime
To me, an unpaid internship can make sense if you're making coffee and hoping
to absorb some experience/wisdom from the bankers/lawyers/whoever you're
working for. But if you're someone with actual skills (e.g. " a UI/UX guru
and/or a strong coder with PHP, Java, Flex, .NET, Ruby/Rails, or Javascript
skills"), making an actual contribution, you should be paid.

~~~
jpwagner
"should" is a word that doesn't belong in this discussion. The "hackstars"
don't have to take this opportunity. They can choose to find a paying job.

~~~
endtime
I agree with you 100%, and my reply nearly included that if one believes in
free markets then one can't call it unethical. The only thing that gives me
pause is that interns are often young and inexperienced and may not realize
that their skills have value. While the burden of such education is on the
interns (intern candidates, young 'uns, hackstars, whatever), it still seems
morally questionable to me for companies to intentionally exploit that
inexperience.

------
mroman
What really gets me is how these types, the come-work-for-free scammers, don't
give up - but then again that is assuming they have enough presence of mind
and brains to realize that

A. This has been tried before, many times

B. There are many who have seen this, and can see right through it

Never fails to amaze me, the room temperature IQ crowd. The crowd that really
thinks that someone who is bright enough to do what we can do will - at the
same time - be dumb enough to fall for a 7th grade level scam.

------
sscheper
They can spin this any way the want, at the end of the day, they're trying to
do one thing:

find programmers dumb enough to work for free.

~~~
mroman
Notice how bright the suits are?

The people that would get into that, are EXACTLY the kind of people that they
need least.

~~~
swalkergibson
Why is this us vs. them? Starting a successful company requires a balanced,
capable team, a ton of luck, and long hours. If this is your attitude, I would
not want to hire you regardless of your self-proclaimed technical prowess.

~~~
mroman
HAHAHA

out of all 4 strawmen you posted, you hiring me was the funniest . . .

"self-proclaimed technical prowess"

Ok buddy, please quote me proclaiming my technical prowess or do STFU

------
dinkumthinkum
Some people also call this slave labor.

------
twoz
Dark comment: Could this be the perfect opportunity for a genious hacker with
enough "fuck you" money _(yet doesn't care about their own reputation
afterwards)_ to sneak behind enemy lines (whatever that means), work for
nothing, and provide a totally unexpected mentor experience - possibly have
them running around in circles and setting up a bunch of startups for failure?

 _"You're using PHP! That doesn't scale! You'll need Java. I'll show you
how."_

 _"You're using Java! Performance will grind to a halt! You'll need PHP. Lemme
see that keyboard."_

An infamous HackStar, indeed.

~~~
tptacek
Nobody with "fuck you money" got it by caring that much about what companies
in a third-tier seed fund are doing.

------
defendersown
I think that there are some people on this forum that are missing the point.
Just because you are a hacker, does not mean that you have the ingredients to
make a successful company. As some have already noted, this is a program for
those people who were rejected from TechStars initially to get into the
program and glean most of the benefits by donating some of their time. Fifteen
hours per week is only two hours per day, and that time could be spent simply
providing another set of hacker eyes to a new feature (not building the whole
thing from scratch), or another techie to bounce your idea for server
architecture off of. What I don't understand is why they do not provide this
same system for business types to "hack" into TechStars.

~~~
mroman
"I think that there are some people on this forum that are missing the point.
Just because you are a hacker, does not mean that you have the ingredients to
make a successful company."

AND?

Who cares?

You are talking as if making a "successful company" is the be all end all and
the ultimate objective of hacking.

Hacking is about Hacking, it is not about money, companies, meetings, sub 90
IQ's in suits, etc etc etc

~~~
swalkergibson
Well, I think that based on the context of this forum (YCombinator is a seed
stage incubator fund) we can assume most people here are interested in either
starting a company themselves, or getting involved with one. So, is making a
"successful company" the be all, end all? No. However, TechStars is attempting
to open a door here, and many people are slamming it shut.

~~~
mroman
it is called Hacker News for a reason

