
From Chrome Apps to the Web - Navarr
http://blog.chromium.org/2016/08/from-chrome-apps-to-web.html
======
niftich
The headline is very non-specific. Here's what's going on:

In a multi-stage, two year effort, the Chrome App Store is being deprecated on
Windows, Mac, Linux, but not ChromeOS. They're asking people to migrate to
websites/webapps instead. Extensions and themes are unaffected. By 2018, only
ChromeOS will be able to run apps in the Chrome App Store.

~~~
glenstein
Forgive my ignorance, but isn't the Chrome App Store also the place where you
get extensions?

Presumably there will still be some centralized place to get extensions.

~~~
niftich
Yes, but extensions are unaffected. This is about 'apps' from that same store.

~~~
wodenokoto
I thought "apps" was Chrome-speak for extensions.

------
tdicola
This is going to be really annoying since hardware access from HTML5 is still
very rough and not even standardized. Stuff like talking to a serial port
isn't even on the radar (so good luck programming a board like BBC micro:bit,
Arduino, etc. without a native app), and efforts like WebUSB are still
extremely early and not even a full standard. I feel like the product managers
making this decision are completely oblivious to the major gaps between chrome
app support & HTML5 support. This line in particular is basically a giant
middle finger to folks in this situation: "Developers who can’t fully move
their apps to the web can help us prioritize new APIs to fill the gaps left by
Chrome apps."

So in short, Google proves once again to _never_ take a bet on their
technology.

~~~
jwmerrill
The article mentions using Electron or NW.js if you want to continue building
apps on web technologies that need deeper platform access.

Is there a reason that those are worse options than Chrome apps?

~~~
tdicola
It's possible but it's not an easy switch. And god help you if you have to mix
native code with Electron. Getting a node-gyp toolchain spun up on Windows is
a complete and total nightmare. Add Electron and its very specific version of
Node into the mix (which totally confused node-gyp) and it's really awful.

~~~
comex
There's also the alternative of switching to a Chrome extension, no?

~~~
deno
Different sets of APIs[1]. For example Socket, USB are only App APIs. Though I
guess they could roll app APIs into extensions… hopefully. Socket API
especially.

------
bwang29
Discloser, developer of Polarr for Chrome here
[https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/polarr-photo-
edito...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/polarr-photo-
editor/djonnbgfieijldcieafgjcnhmpcfpmgg?hl=en)

To us as developers, the biggest advantage of Chrome Store is discoverability,
reviews, and store front organizations. As a fairly new developer, we also
have a web app, but it is late in the game and there is no way to out-SEO the
existing players through Google Search. Chrome Web Store was the place where
we felt a fair game where we can compete on product quality and getting better
reviews and out-rank the same competitors who also have chrome apps.

~~~
ocdtrekkie
Don't you really only have that discoverability there because almost nobody is
actually in the Chrome Web Store? For the most popular browser on the planet,
Chrome's store is incredibly sparse.

I was always surprised Google didn't fold it into the Play Store as a separate
category, now that it serves movies, books, etc. that aren't Android-specific.
And the Play Store is a far more mature product than the Chrome Web Store.

~~~
bwang29
In terms of "Apps" that is comparable to a quality web app, I think Chrome
Store is pretty dense. If you look at the photo apps here:
[https://chrome.google.com/webstore/category/collection/pictu...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/category/collection/picture_perfect?hl=en)

It is pretty much a replica of the top search results of "online photo editor"
or "web photo editor". It is as competitive as web but I think the
layout/review/star information in the store is still more useful than looking
at a linear table returned by search.

It seems like Play Store is going to replace the Chrome Web Store. Speaking as
app developer, the only advantage for searching for apps on Chrome Store is
that most apps are optimized for a laptop/chrome book with a mouse and
keyboard, and the apps work better for desktops.

------
laksjd
I've always been somewhat confused by chrome apps. How do (did) they
differentiate themselves from extensions? Even Google seemed unsure about that
as Hangouts has been available as both an extension as well as an app for
quite some time.

As a user I'm really glad to see this move, along with the move towards
android apps on Chrome OS since I'm hoping it will unify the Google-driven
ecosystem a bit more.

~~~
kzahel
Chrome apps can have extensive permissions that web platform does not provide.

\- Full TCP/UDP socket support (AFAIK this is never coming to the web
platform)

\- Bluetooth support (Web platform is getting this, though)

\- Filesystem support (e.g. get persistent read/write access to user selected
directory. Web platform probably won't get this)

Notably the socket and filesystem permissions are not available to extensions.
Most of the other permissions though are available in extensions.

[https://developer.chrome.com/apps/api_index](https://developer.chrome.com/apps/api_index)

~~~
runn1ng
I will add HID API support, that apps have and extensions don't.

[https://developer.chrome.com/apps/hid](https://developer.chrome.com/apps/hid)

~~~
onlykey
We placed a bet on chrome apps because of the USB HID API -
[https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/onlykey-
configurat...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/onlykey-
configuration/adafilbceehejjehoccladhbkgbjmica)

We would have done an extension but there is no USB HID support. Obviously a
web app would be a bad idea. Anyone know if there are plans to make the
chrome.hid api available to extensions any time soon?

------
benologist
I think next year's Android tablets will be more like the Play Store with
Chrome OS under the hood, the apps they are obsoleting today will be a
universally inferior experience on tablets because they were only ever
supported on desktops.

I think Google are betting on the Play Store for Windows and macOS breaking
the Windows/Mac desktop paradigm too ... between Chrome the browser and
Android apps Google occupies a lot of user attention already, they're already
close to all the apps most people need, especially when they're co-installed
on your desktop/laptop.

In terms of functionality they're on the brink of parity with Windows wherever
the dependency is really just x86. A commercial Android version of WINE has
already installed the Windows version of Steam and playable games, just as
sophisticated GPUs start moving to the same USB every cheap tablet will have
next year.

A lot of people will end up completely weaned off Windows/Mac app
dependency... those are platforms on which both native app stores are orders
of magnitude less popular than the Play Store _and_ unpopular with developers.

~~~
benologist
After thinking some more...

Maybe Play Store for Windows and Play Store for OS X will launch real soon...
as Play Store for Chrome.

In Chrome OS they're currently adding the Play Store to select hardware
including x86 laptops using ... "container" technology.

In Chrome OS these apps will start to stop being available in about a year.

In Chrome on Windows and Mac they are losing access to these apps, the vast
vast vast majority of users, they start losing access almost immediately and
completely lose access before this year ends.

So I guess Android will be a small device OS.

Chrome-as-Android will be the tablet/desktop/laptop OS.

And if Google's bet pays off Windows and OS X will be an MS-D...OS.

~~~
frik
Yes. The browser is already like second OS. So if Google provides the Android
API through Chrome. And if Chrome comes with PlayStore, then a lot of people
will be able to run Android apps on Windows 7+, macOS and Linux. And as a next
step, people will ask themself why not just buy a notebook with Android and
run 1-2 legacy apps via Wine or whatever. And the new announced (on Github)
Fuchsia OS that may replace some rusty parts may happen like Win98 to WinNT.
And MS can do little to prevent it, their Phones and tablets have a 1% global
market share, their store is a joke, their UWP platform failed (Win10
exclusive games like Quantum Break already backported to Win7 and Steam), and
they still do their best to scare of their long time users with their
aggressive style, that was unheard of during Balmer era. So Google has a very
good chance to win the desktop market share big time. Just don't forget about
enterprise customers!

~~~
wordtoyourmom
All the desktop OS vendors have to do is allow you to run native apps inside a
tabbed, browser-like shell alongside websites.

------
rogerwang
NW.js supports running Chrome Apps directly:
[https://nwjs.io﻿](https://nwjs.io﻿)

We'll continue supporting it and Chrome App developers can redistribute their
apps after packaging with NW.js

------
hayksaakian
I have a chrome packaged app

I built it about 4-5 years ago

Back then to get any kind of power you had to use a packaged app. Extensions
either didn't have permissions needed to build a real offline first
experience.

Nowadays service workers help with the offline role. I wonder how much
permissions have been expanded to allow the same types of apps to be
extensions.

------
a85
Postman founder here. We saw this coming a while back. Chrome apps have had
several issues related to window switching and menu control. We have been
waiting for a fix for these for ages but they never came. We decided to build
a cross platform app based on Electron last year and now have apps on OS X and
Windows [1] with Linux coming soon.

This is not the first time Google has deprecated things or made a drastic
change in the Chrome platform. Postman had to shift from the legacy style apps
to the packaged style apps in 2014 while it still had hundreds of thousands of
users on the legacy platform. Google's solution for the transition is pretty
bad. You upload a new zip file and everyone sees the new app running outside
the browser and without the ability to do certain things. This transition
system was not available when the Chrome app platform launched and we had to
create a new listing. Other apps that transitioned their users to the new
platform on the existing listing got hammered in ratings as people were pretty
obviously pissed.

1\. Postman apps: www.getpostman.com/apps

~~~
ksdev
Good to hear about electron based apps! Waiting for the Linux version.

------
holtalanm
Why does this feel like they are just giving the finger to ChromeOS users?

So basically, we have an OS that will only run chrome apps, and they are
removing the ability to create chrome apps.

I'd be more okay with this if they gave ChromeOS the ability to install and
run an .apk.

Does no one see a problem with this?

~~~
fokz
Developers can continue to build Chrome apps and eventually Android apps for
Chrome OS, when Google Play store is brought to Chrome OS. However, I agree
there is the problem of losing incentive to maintain a native Chrome app from
the developer POV.

------
alpeb
With Chrome OS now supporting Android apps, this obviously means Chrome Apps
will get dropped there as well even if they deny it now. A real shame since
since those had a chance to become an excellent modern platform for internet-
first desktop-grade apps. As all things Google, they had a great solid
technical start, but at some point the clueless managers had to pull the plug.

------
RRWagner
For K-12 schools, losing Internet access is a frequent occurrence and when
they do have access it's often slowed down by the other 1000+ students using
it. Chrome Apps totally on the web also mean times when there will be no app
at all.

------
seanwilson
So what are developers of existing paid Chrome packaged apps suppose to do for
existing users?

"Starting in late 2016, newly-published Chrome apps will only be available to
users on Chrome OS."

As someone who has been building a Chrome app this sudden change with a lack
of notice has made me very nervous.

~~~
skybrian
Why do you say "lack of notice?" This is the notice. Maybe it's surprising
news, but nothing is actually changing today.

~~~
seanwilson
Four months notice to be told there's no point releasing a Chrome packaged app
you might have been working on (which may not work as an extension) isn't very
much notice.

~~~
notatoad
Four months is plenty of time to repackage a chrome app into electron or
something.

~~~
seanwilson
The lure of Chrome apps and extensions is they're easy and safe for users to
install which is not true of alternatives.

------
ferbivore
So does this mean Chrome Remote Desktop is going to be a Chrome OS exclusive
by early 2017?

~~~
noinsight
There's also the official SSH client that is a NaCl version of OpenSSH, I've
been toying with it since it seems kind of superior to PuTTY on Windows.

~~~
patrickaljord
You should try hyperterm, it's based on the chrome ssh NaCl version shell with
support for plugins on top [https://hyperterm.org/](https://hyperterm.org/)

------
danprime
The moment it was announced that Android Apps/Play store was coming to Chrome
OS, I always wondered about the fate of Chrome Apps.

I built a Photobooth App called Photomatico[1] (for use in
events/wedding/parties). While there is an endless supply of photo/camera apps
in Android and iOS, there were only a few photo/camera apps on the Chrome
Store, and even less that didn't rely on using Flash. I wrote Photomatico
originally as a web app for one of my friend's wedding (super happy with the
use of only HTML/CSS/Javascript).

It was a relatively small effort to package the code into a web app (because
packaged web apps have the added functionality of running
offline/disconnected, kind of like Cordova/PhoneGap) and adding to the fact
that Google handled all the payments - so no need to do extra work and sign up
for credit card processing/Stripe/Recurly/paypal, etc. So all you had to do
was add a few lines of code, zip it up and people would pay you for it!

I think people value the simplicity of an "app" versus a website even though
in my case the functionality is equivalent. From the last 3 years, I find that
non-tech people (i.e. people who celebrate retirement parties, DIY party
organizers, etc.) are pretty comfortable with the concept of packaged apps
(icons, distinct install process) but are even more comfortable with the
safety of an App store. As crowded as it is, users definitely were more
comfortable with a store than navigating and bookmarking a website.

I have built other apps that use the bookmarking feature to launch separate
self-contained windows and my own anecdotal observations show that this
workflow is really hard for them to grasp. Even the "new" way in Chrome is
being dismissed by users because it looks too much like an ad or popup.

A few years ago, I put my Photobooth app on the Chrome Store and slapped a
price (currently:free for selfies, $40 for the "Events" edition). I learned a
lot about pricing/offering (I was surprised when I discovered I had more
people paying $40 for the Events Edition than $5), building an email list
(incentivizing signups), etc.

Just the other day, I was reviewing my revenue figures, and for relatively low
amounts of work/support it's currently bringing in around $150 CDN / month,
with over 40 daily installs, a couple thousand pictures taken weekly.

As sad as it is to see the chrome store go all I can say (in 2018 when they
will shut it down) is: "So Long! Thanks for all the fish!"

[1][https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/photobooth/lcimple...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/photobooth/lcimplempegehiobmomlfepnkfbogaac?hl=en)

~~~
seanwilson
I was working on a Chrome app so this is interesting to read, thanks! Are you
planning to convert your app to an extension now? Is that possible? Did you
consider monetising this as a web app somehow?

------
remir
I think Google is working toward the consolidation of all their platforms,
like Microsoft did with UWP on Windows 10.

You can run Android apps on some Chromebooks but it doesn't feel optimal. I
wouldn't be surprised if both Android and ChromeOS were replaced by "Fuchsia"
eventually. You could have a single platform for mobile phones (including
VR/AR), desktop, IoT (replacing Brillo), server, etc...

~~~
pjmlp
> IoT (replacing Brillo)

Right now Brillo appears much more mature.

However Google being Google, who knows which variant ends up winning.

------
rck404
Does this mean postman app is gone as webapp ?

~~~
niftich
Incidentally they just released a Windows native application earlier this
month (posted on HN yesterday):
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12315371](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12315371)

------
lenkite
1% of Chrome users using Chrome packaged apps is an _extraordinary_ large
number! This is an absolutely stupid decision. Chrome apps gave a clean
convenient way of packaging offline apps without bundling a huge runtime like
the electron framework.

------
zmanian
I suspect many people will migrate to electron instead of web apps. APIs for
USB and Bluetooth and the isolation offered by Chrome apps have no equivalent
in extensions / web apps

------
kevinstubbs
Does this have any effect on the seemingly small pool of games in the Chrome
Store? Has anybody actually made money from that market?

~~~
errozero
It is possible to make some money on there. If you own a Chromebook with
Chrome OS, it's the only place to get software. There is a torrent app for
sale on the Chrome store for £1.89 and has over 50k installs:
[https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/jstorrent/anhdpjpo...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/jstorrent/anhdpjpojoipgpmfanmedjghaligalgb?hl=en)

~~~
GordonS
do 50k installs of this app equal 50k sales?

~~~
errozero
I don't know but there is no free version at the moment. Looking at the
updates in the description it mentions that they will refund any unsatisfied
customers, that was in 2013 so it was for sale back then too.

~~~
kzahel
This is the free version:
[https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/jstorrent-
lite/abm...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/jstorrent-
lite/abmohcnlldaiaodkpacnldcdnjjgldfh)

It's just not searchable in the store by default.

~~~
errozero
Is this your app?

~~~
kzahel
yep!

------
anupshinde
As a developer, I was pretty concerned on what to chose between Chrome Apps
and packaged apps with Electron. Chrome apps didn't make sense.

I chose Electron for obvious reasons, but still wish there was a some simpler
way to package and distribute Electron apps. And a way to restrict app-
permissions on Electron desktop apps - similar to what we do on mobile .

------
sandstrom
Does anyone know what they'll do with Google Apps Marketplace[1]?

It's currently piggy-backing on the Chrome App Store (only for the
listing/entry, they are otherwise different).

[1]
[https://apps.google.com/marketplace/?hl=en](https://apps.google.com/marketplace/?hl=en)

------
dopu
Hopefully this pushes Signal developers to transition from a Chrome app to
building a desktop-native client.

------
swamp40
Any alternatives for Javascript USB connectivity on Windows machines? Just a
Node.js install?

~~~
sowbug
[https://wicg.github.io/webusb/](https://wicg.github.io/webusb/) is
implemented on Chrome today behind experimental flags. It's not an answer for
legacy USB devices, but for new devices that take into account the web's same-
origin policy, it's quite powerful.

------
picrin
What about adblock, adblock+? Is it possible for it to work as a webapp?

~~~
lxgr
Ad blockers use the extension API, which is not going away.

