
Ask HN: Why is applying for jobs such a pain? - malthaus
As someone neither in SV nor a programming wizard being constantly headhunted with good offers i wonder why applying for jobs is such a pain.<p>There are multiple job boards where you have to create email alerts. The same jobs are posted on multiple sites and reposted by recruiters. Some jobs don&#x27;t even exist in reality or are just published for policy reasons. Some are never posted publicly as it would be a sign of weakness in certain roles to apply to job posts.<p>When you finally find something interesting and want to apply you have enter all your data in a custom form on a custom website and upload a PDF motivation letter.<p>Then you wait... and wait... no indication or transparency on status. After 3 months a standard rejection mail might come in after the position was removed or filled. Likely not with you because some intern or algorithm decided you don&#x27;t fit the profile based on missing keywords.<p>I&#x27;m based in Europe, so maybe we suffer from increased bureaucracy here, but from what i hear it&#x27;s not much different around the world.<p>Can someone explain why this is such a broken process? 
Why didn&#x27;t LinkedIn fill this role? 
Why does every HR department re-invent the wheel?<p>I&#x27;m ranting but i&#x27;m also intrigued.<p>If this is solvable, anyone interested to work on a mobile-first lightweight solution?
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AndreyErmakov
Because hiring is akin to dating and therefore it suffers from the same
problems:

1) It's mostly about subjective impressions and often weird ideas of what a
suitable date/candidate must be. There are no official rule books or
guidelines about how to proceed. It's not about hard skills and efficiency, it
very much revolves around soft skills, presentation abilities and invisible
chemistry.

2) More often than not both parties in dating/hiring aren't serious about
conducting a transaction and getting to a serious business. It's about meeting
new people, hanging out, checking the pulse of the job market but no more.
Misrepresenting oneself, one's abilities/features and intentions is the norm
with both dates/candidates(companies), which leads to a lot of frustration and
bad feelings, keeping the success rate of activities in the both fields rather
low.

Different industries, similar problems. And for the both of them no
technological/software solution in sight.

P.S. See how "candi-date" is linguistically just a particular case or subset
of "date". Just another validation of the point.

~~~
Cpoll
> P.S.

I expect this is a joke, but even if this were true, I don't think it'd be a
valid 'validation of the point.'

Incidentally, "candidate" is not a subset of "date." It's from Latin
candidatus, "white-robed." Date is ultimately from Latin datus/dare, "to
give."

~~~
AndreyErmakov
It's not that much of a joke, more of a curiosity, if you choose to look at
both words from a certain angle. I realize that their etymology might be
different, but in the end of the day their spelling has become close and the
concepts they denote have also developed certain commonalities.

------
helen842000
The problem is you're waiting for an advert to be released before you apply to
a job.

If a job is being advertised on a job board or by a recruiter that is a signal
that they are out of options and struggling to hire.

Paid advertising is the last port of call when trying to find candidates. Good
companies get sent speculative applications directly - even before there is an
open post.

Jobs are then advertised internally, existing staff speak to their network and
make direct recommendations as soon as it goes external.

If they have to, companies often advertise (for free) on industry specific
sites to cut straight to those people with the right skills (like the Jobs
page here).

If that fails then it makes its way down to the general pool of jobs. That
opens companies up to a huge volume of applications which makes filtering the
best candidates out a very difficult task so it frequently gets poorly
automated.

Start looking higher up the chain. Circumventing this process is actually part
of the application.

Think about who you want to work for and apply before they are looking.

~~~
ljk
> _Start looking higher up the chain. Circumventing this process is actually
> part of the application._

Any tips on doing this?

~~~
helen842000
Pick a handful of companies you're curious or interested in. Look at what jobs
they are currently hiring for on their own website and search to see what
other sites their adverts are syndicated on. Learn about the culture, get to
know current staff and their work through conference talks, social media,
industry meetups etc.

See if it seems like somewhere you would like to work. Think about what
problems they are solving and consider how you can help them.

Potentially improve your skills in areas or technologies you know they are
after. Make something that is complementary to the product or service they
deliver to put you on their radar.

Contact them directly to start a conversation, share what you can offer and
learn when they might be hiring next for your kind of role, stay friendly and
keep in touch.

You will be surprised how easy it is for things to progress based on being
genuinely interested in working for a company.

------
JSeymourATL
> Why does every HR department re-invent the wheel?

HR must justify its importance and value by making things hard.

It's frequently observed that HR is the bottleneck in the process. If line
managers (as they often do with smaller, more nimble companies) took on the
actual responsibility for recruiting & hiring-- you would find process much
more amenable. Avoid HR, focus your job search efforts on speaking with the
senior executive(s) who you can help.

------
Taylor_OD
I'm a tech recruiter in Chicago. Due to a lot of the reasons you listed my
advice for developers is to reach out to senior
developer/leads/architects/managers/cto's at companies they are interested in
working for.

I work with 85% of the bigger name tech companies in Chicago and they don't
always have their roles posted online. Most of then have urgent roles with no
roles posted online because they rarely get any good resumes from it and
instead rely on recruiters.

Cold email/linkedin message someone at the company you may be interested in
working for and I bet they would at least get back to you. At least you wont
have to fill out a job application.

------
lj3
I'm convinced that most companies have the application processes they have
because it gives them the candidates they want. The reason the application
process at some companies is so one-sided, non-transparent and makes you jump
through arbitrary and ever changing hoops is because that's a skill they
value. Most likely, that's going to be a daily requirement of the job.

Startup companies want to think they're hiring the best and brightest, so they
follow the interview practices of companies or people they think are the best
and the brightest. People who can pass those interviews are the candidates
they want because, in their minds at least, they're Google quality
programmers.

------
gt565k
If you're applying through a company's website / job portal, you've already
lost the game.

You need to network and get your foot in the door through a personal
reference.

Try angel list and hired.com (although I don't know if they service the EU).

~~~
ljk
> _Try angel list and hired.com_

how is this different than applying on a site?

~~~
gt565k
Angel List is nice because salaries and equity are visible. Hired.com, you can
specify what salary you want as well as other things to use as filters. On
hired.com, companies contact you, instead of you having to apply. You have 24
hours to make an initial response. If you don't, the contact disappears.

~~~
ljk
thanks for clarifying, but how is this different than applying at bottom of
the ladder since the jobs are posted externally already?

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brudgers
I don't know about mobile-first and I am not sure it really matters in the
jobhunting space. But I'd suggest looking at StackOverflow Jobs for a
developer oriented resource:

[https://stackoverflow.com/jobs?t=c&r=home](https://stackoverflow.com/jobs?t=c&r=home)

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thorin
What sort of work and where specifically are you in Europe? For instance if
you are in London and have some skills from the last 10 years and work
experience I would think getting contracts or permanent would be fairly
straightforward.

If you can build up a contact network you'll have a greater chance of finding
something interesting with people you like. This is where LinkedIn comes in
handy.

Yes you may have to wait a long time if you are focussed on a particular
company or work area.

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herbst
So far it felt as i would choose my job. It was always easy and straight
forward. I also have several friends that see it similar. I honestly have no
idea what is broken, so i wouldn't be a help fixing it. If you dont like the
hustle of doing this yourself, there are several agencies that do exactly that
for you (usually even better). Europe too btw, Switzerland tho

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transmatter
job hunting is not fair game, you can't wait for the job to come on a
newspaper or job website to apply for it. many times it happens that the job
is posted for policy purposes but the hiring is already done in the
background. this sounds unfair, but it is the truth. job is something that
helps you get on with your life and places the food on your table. so its only
common sense that people who are already in power of recruitment would give
the job to someone they already know and call in the favor afterwards, instead
of posting it publicly and hiring a complete stranger.

