
Functional programming is a ghetto  - jjohns
http://blog.jelastic.com/2012/07/24/functional-programming-is-a-ghetto/
======
Dn_Ab
I wonder if the original author knows his content is being used like this. I
found the post very misleading in the way it grossly misrepresents the
authorship of the piece. You have to scroll all the way to the bottom to know
that Michael O. Church [<http://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=michaelochurch>]
wrote this and not Judah Johns.

~~~
kd0amg
It might be appropriate to change the HN link to
[http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/functional-
pr...](http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/functional-programming-
is-a-ghetto/)

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readme
Sorry OP, but your defense of ghettos as voluntary enclaves is not accurate.
Please check: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghettos_in_Nazi-occupied_Europe>

They were also not even a tiny bit prosperous.

~~~
gpcz
As you said, the author was probably mixing up ghettos (which are by
definition involuntary) with the concept of an ethnic enclave (
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_enclave> ). It's easy to do because many
ethnic enclaves were historically ghettos, but the involuntary factor was
removed and the region developed a unique culture that remains.

~~~
lrem
To make it even more confusing, I've heard that at least some ghettos in
German-occupied Poland were ethnic enclaves before the war. OTOH, never cared
to find actual sources to support/disprove this claim.

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wtvanhest
The OP made the crucial mistake of not researching holocaust related material
prior to posting. Even if the Jewish citizens of Europe segregated themselves
for their own interest rather than being forced to, today’s widely accepted
definition of Ghetto comes from either poor urban areas or in reference to the
Jewish ghettos set up by the Nazis.

That being said, the OP does make a good point that the programming industry
is a ghetto in the sense that culturally it has a particular way of thinking
and approaching the world. What really isn’t interesting about it, is that
almost every profession has the same thing. HN is an example of an internet
ghetto in the form of a place that allows its users to only associate with
each other if they choose even if they are geographically separated.

In 2011 the SBS talked about how broadband could lead to internet ghettos and
I believe they have a point, but the question is: Is an internet ghetto really
a bad thing? [http://www.news.com.au/technology/broadband-could-lead-to-
di...](http://www.news.com.au/technology/broadband-could-lead-to-digital-
ghettos-warns-sbs/story-e6frfro0-1226018524257)

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ehosca
the idea is to capture your real intent and formulate it as an expression
which can then be evaluated (on demand or lazy) and chained with others ...

this requires you to focus on how to solve the problem succinctly rather than
blindly wiring up factories that eventually get you to the 2m line codebase
mentioned below....

if that looks like a ghetto to you i wonder what other crazy ideas you have...

------
gaius
Clickbaity title obviously meant to invoke the infamous "Rails is a ghetto"
rant.

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debacle
This reeks of ignorance of the industry, gross generalizations, and a ham-
fisted call to action.

People don't use Java because they don't care about programming, or because
they don't care about maintenance. People use Java (or PHP, or C#, or Perl, or
C/++) because:

1\. They get paid to do it. Historically, someone has realized that Java
development was easier/faster/more stable than Lisp development.

2\. Java has hella libraries. I mean _hella_. You can find a library for
almost anything. Lisp...not so much.

3\. Java is a language for doing things. Lisp is not a language for doing
things. I'll change my mind when I see a 2m+ line codebase that's been in
production for ten years.

> What we call functional programming is somewhat of a shibboleth for good-
> taste programming.

Your blog post is littered with drivel like this. I could quote almost every
other line for the same reason.

~~~
hkolek
A 2m+ line Java codebase is not desirable or in any way positive. With a Lisp
(or Haskell or some other nice functional language) you wouldn't need half the
amount of code to achieve the same functionality. Java is especially notorious
for its boilerplate. Lisp is very much a language for doing things, _at least_
as much as Java. A big codebase that has been in production for ten years? How
about 40+ years? <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macsyma>

It's _your_ post that reeks of ignorance and gross generalization.

~~~
debacle
You're trying to give me a 15 year old application and hold it up as a shining
example of Lisp engineering, when the most prominent application in that arena
(Mathematica) is written in C and Java?

Reddit, too, was once written in Lisp. It was rewritten for a reason.

------
ColinWright
Now submitted in its own right: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4285956>

~~~
jjohns
Thanks, Colin. Should have done that to start with. I really liked Michael's
post and thought it could use some new visibility--which is why I wanted my
blogs readers to see it (mostly Java guys).

