
Support for Hello discontinued in Firefox 49 - gerty
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/hello-status?as=u&utm_source=inproduct
======
zbuf
I'd rather my browser focused on being a browser.

And I think that's better for the long term health of Mozilla, and Firefox,
too.

~~~
lucb1e
Where would you draw the line? A PDF reader is very useful, but not a core
browser component. Or Chrome tying in with all the Google services, that's not
browser functionality but Google service promotion. Why does Firefox get shit
for this every time?

~~~
jasonkostempski
I don't even want a bookmark manager built-in. Address bar, tabs, viewport,
dev tools. Done. Make it fast.

~~~
unethical_ban
So to the average non-developer computer-neanderthal who checks weather, movie
times and news, you think it's more important to have dev tools in the
standard build than bookmarks?

I find this "Give me only what I want" attitude quite frustrating. Perhaps you
could argue for a more modular system that disables any given feature, but I
would challenge you 8 days a week that bookmarks are a useful tool for most.

And really, bookmarks? How is that a performance hit? Maybe one would say that
the "awesome bar" takes cycles to auto-search bookmarks when typing a URL, but
you can disable that already.

~~~
jasonkostempski
It was an extreme example to convey a point but now I realize I didn't take it
far enough. My original point was that path keeping should be handle by a
standalone program for several reasons: web pages aren't the only source of
paths I want to keep; my primary browser isn't the only program I want to open
paths in; there is often more data I want to associate with a path like a
tags, notes, user names/passwords (often more than 1 pair), etc. We already
have window managers so tabs are taken care of. URLs are just like file
paths... Actually, my file manager looks exactly like my browser, I just don't
have an HTML/JavaScript/CSS handler that doesn't also have it's own version of
a file manager. The internet is just another file system and we already have
file system browsers. You're right about dev tools, that should be separate,
probably best to incorporate it into gdb. I think I'm on to something here.

------
Jaruzel
The first thing I do on any new Firefox install is remove Pocket and Hello off
the toolbar. I'm pretty sure most people do the same. In fact, I'm struggling
to remember what Hello actually is...

~~~
pmontra
And disable WebRTC because of local IP address leakage. Check yours at
[http://net.ipcalf.com/](http://net.ipcalf.com/) :-)

~~~
daurnimator
why is the local ip considered private information?

99% of people are going to be in 192.168.1.0/24 or 10.1.1.0/24\. so it only
takes 508 guesses.... not to mention that everyone is 127.0.0.1.

~~~
cpeterso
A site can very reliably identify you (across browsers, even) if it knows your
public and private IP addresses. Your public IP address identifies which
organization or network you're in and your private IP address identifies which
machine within that organization or network you are using.

~~~
daurnimator
90% of the time I use IPv6. where I just have a global IP on every device.
Identifies me directly (until I grab a new ipv6 address)

------
nachtigall
I was about to use it as a OS-independent alternative to Skype (I'm on Linux).
And I wanted to use this, also instead of facebook chat and the likes.

The moment they removed the contacts feature it was dead for me. Although, to
be honest, it never really worked (sometimes no audio and stuff like that).

The idea, that I have to first email the chat URL and then I can make a
conversation is like writing a letter first before doing a call. Fundamentally
wrong conversation setup.

~~~
chme
Yes, I would rather see some more traditional FOSS
video/audio/chat/screensharing solution. With an account, contact lists,
account (not device) based E2E encryption* , easy to deploy server software
and something that can be used from a browser (without any plugins) and native
chat applications with an open standard.

* Where messages are de/encrypted readable for every device/endpoint of an account not just for the one with the active session.

~~~
aviraldg
All of what you asked for: [https://vector.im/](https://vector.im/) (E2E has
landed recently!)

~~~
chme
Yes, thanks. Somebody mentioned it here before, looks good.

Not sure if it can do video conferences with E2E encryption, because that
could be very difficult (impossible?) or bandwidth intensive.

Now I just need to convince everyone to switch ;)

~~~
chme
Oh, just one thing. Its apparently missing a desktop client, that isn't a web
app.

I could convince more to switch if chat managers like gajim/pidgin etc. would
support it out of the box.

~~~
aviraldg
It is not, check [http://matrix.org/docs/projects/try-matrix-
now.html](http://matrix.org/docs/projects/try-matrix-now.html)

~~~
chme
Vector Desktop an Electron that wraps the webapp and matix clients without
videoconference support.

It's a good start.

~~~
aviraldg
Tensor and Quaternion, actually.

~~~
chme
Tensor and Quaternion has video conferencing support?

From what I read, they are only matrix clients, not vector clients.

~~~
ThatGeoGuy
Vector is a client for the Matrix communications platform (perhaps calling it
a communications platform is wrong, it's more general than that).

Matrix itself is just a spec / API for sending and receiving messages. Tensor
and Quaternion are two other clients that work with a given Matrix home-
server. AFAIK all of these clients can utilize Matrix APIs to some degree,
however I'm unsure about video conferencing as I only really use Vector. That
said though, other clients' capabilities don't really depend on Vector at all,
unless they're using [https://vector.im](https://vector.im) as an identity
server.

------
vocatus_gate
THANK-YOU, finally got rid of that stupid thing. For a while there it seemed
like every new Firefox version had another stupid non-browser-related plugin
that I had to go find out how to kill off before deploying to the network.

~~~
brunoqc
> I had to go find out how to kill off before deploying to the network.

Why?

~~~
drivingmenuts
Because anything unexpected that is deployed to a network will (not may)
eventually become a security and/or support nightmare for someone. Better to
keep users to a minimum set of features necessary to do their job.

Yes, that sucks from a user perspective. But they don't have to fix the
goddamn network at 3am because Al the Alcoholic in Accounting can't quit
sending pix of his pickled junk to Betty in Brazil.

------
tombrossman
Slightly off-topic but does anyone know the status of the "Send Tab to Device"
function? It is my favorite feature on Firefox for Android and it has
disappeared. Not the first time this happened, either. Are they randomly
adding and then removing support for this? I'm definitely not the only one
affected: [https://support.mozilla.org/en-
US/questions/1087138](https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1087138).

I can visit the desktop version of Mozilla's add-ons site and see an extension
which supposedly does this, but the 'add to Firefox' button is disabled if I
visit the same link on my mobile. Bizarre.

~~~
yaantc
Can't you automatically get the same with Firefox Sync? And indeed, it seems
to me the UI has changed recently. Anyway, if you have sync enabled on both
desktop and device, you can see the other sync'd devices open tabs (if
enabled, what you sync is configurable). From the desktop is from the
hamburger menu, "Synced Tabs" icon. From Android, you now need to go to the
history pane. The first line is "Synced Devices", press this to see other tabs
and open any ones as needed. So instead of explicitly selecting to send a tab
to a device, just wait or force a sync (on Android: from the Settings sync
page) if in a rush.

~~~
tombrossman
It's a bit of a crude workaround but that might work. My use-case is that I
frequently browse to a site on my mobile and want to view it later on my
desktop machine. I could do that with a couple clicks easily before. Now I
will have to keep a bunch of tabs open on my mobile and remember to manually
go and check for them when I'm back on the desktop.

Just one example, I would browse through my Twitter feed before going to
sleep. Any interesting links from Twitter were sent to the desktop machine
from the mobile. In the morning, I would start Firefox on the desktop and a
bunch of new tabs would automatically pop open, which was great.

~~~
technofiend
If you don't find it then consider Pushbullet, which has similar but improved
functionality.

~~~
tombrossman
Just checked the Pushbullet site intending to see if they support Linux and to
review their privacy policies. "Sign in with Google" or "Sign in with
Facebook" are the only options on their sign in page. It does look like a cool
service but not at all aligned with my privacy and open-source concerns.
Thanks anyway.

~~~
technofiend
Blergh, sorry. I could have sworn they had an e-mail option. Sign in with
Google does allow mirror of alerts (texts, hangouts, etc) from your Android
device to others but if that's not in your comfort zone so be it.

------
red_admiral
Is it too much to hope that pocket will be next?

~~~
jhoechtl
The free pocket is really useless. I am helpless now identifying an
alternative which would give me the ability to search for more but one tag (as
is the case with pocket)

------
pbiggar
This is great. Mozilla experimented with a new thing, it didn't take off, and
they killed it. Bravo both for experimenting, and for killing it afterwards.

------
arianvanp
Wait it will be totally discontinued? Not even optional?

So basically, Hello was deemed dead from the beginning?

~~~
akerro
>So basically, Hello was deemed dead from the beginning?

As everyone predicted.

~~~
lucb1e
> As everyone predicted.

After seeing how everyone reacted to it, yeah, that makes it easy to "predict"
people don't like it.

~~~
toxican
I think shoehorning something nobody asked for into a browser that has
historically suffered from bloat and performance issues was a good indication
of what the reaction would be.

~~~
Certhas
So they should have not bothered trying because people were always going to
conflate unrelated things?

------
chme
So is Jitsi Meet the only FOSS alternative?

~~~
akerro
[https://vector.im/](https://vector.im/)

~~~
spditner
vector is using FreeSWITCH for it's audio and video conferencing afaik.
FreeSWITCH also has another project called Verto Communicator built with all
sort of Node.js goodness:
[https://freeswitch.org/confluence/display/FREESWITCH/Verto+C...](https://freeswitch.org/confluence/display/FREESWITCH/Verto+Communicator)

------
FrozenVoid
Good riddance. Firefox having default plugins like this is one of the reasons
i stay in v38.0

~~~
hadrien01
ESR 38 is still updated? I think its end of life was a few months ago...

~~~
JohnTHaller
Nope. Firefox ESR is at version 45.3.0. Firefox 38.x is insecure and should
absolutely not be used.

------
thrkw123456789
This is a shame it was the best chance to get people off Skype.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
If you want me to eat something, don't shove it in my mouth, put it on my
plate and tell me how delicious it is.

~~~
ksk
>If you want me to eat something, don't shove it in my mouth,

To continue that analogy further, perhaps babies feel insulted too.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
Maybe.

The thing is the baby is incapable of reasoning. They're not capable of asking
for food. They're not capable, often, of picking it up to eat it themselves.
They need help but can't ask for it. They don't know what's good for them or
the balance of foods to consume. They'll be hungry and throw the food on the
floor .. they can't tell you "oh, sorry, I didn't mean to do that I was
actually trying hard to eat it but, you know, 9 month old motor-control".
Sometimes you have to just shove it in there, then watch them chew, swallow
and smile and open their mouth for more.

A web browser user that wants to do video calling can use a search engine, or
look up add-ons. They can respond to their browser maker putting a "we
recommend SuperDoublePlusGood add-on for communicating with your friends"
advert alongside the new release information. A browser add-on isn't essential
to life, nor essential to using the browser.

When the baby is already eating I don't shove something else in their mouth
because it's a different brand and I think that brand is better despite it
doing the same thing.

Pushing analogies too far sucks.

~~~
ksk
The other extreme is, if you want what you want, go and make it yourself.
Don't ask somebody else to do it for you.

In any case, defining "what something is" \-- when the nature of the product
is creative, as is the case with all of programming -- isn't helpful. Nobody
has to "ask". A phone can also be a web browser, it can also be a GPS
navigation system, it can also be a camera, it can also be a hand held video
gaming console, it can be many other things along the continuum of personal
electronic devices. Essentially, you're only disagreeing with where the
equilibrium is.

------
nwah1
Hello is essentially a tiny amount of javascript that connects to the existing
WebRTC infrastructure. Other services will make use of this infrastructure to
provide the same functionality.

But the concept of having cross-platform realtime audio, video, and
screensharing is very appealing.

------
burnbabyburn
the idea was great, probably no one ever used Hello because is was
substantially broken.

------
alabamamike
+1 for stripping out feature bloat!

------
threepipeproblm
I was going to try it out -- "one of these days".

------
philliphaydon
I'm on 48 and don't have that feature????

~~~
just_observing
I'm on 48.0.1 - right click your bookmarks toolbar or Customise it. Hello and
Pocket will be options - you may well have removed them?

~~~
philliphaydon
I have a Pocket List option but no hello option. Strange.

------
tangue
As a company, Mozilla is an open-source version of Yahoo.

------
AdmiralAsshat
Never used it. Didn't need it. Not sure how I would get anyone else to use it,
either, as I think I'm the only one in my family/circle of friends still using
Firefox.

Glad to be rid of it.

------
mirap
Yes! Thank you, The Mozilla Foundation.

