
A letter to today’s young people - Shank
https://marco.org/2016/11/11/letter-to-young-people
======
vtange
Not the best message to young people: that puts people on either "the good,
progressive side" or the "bad, conservative side". This is what creates the
divisive, no-compromise society we see today. In addition, for some folks, it
will seem like someone is telling them how to think.

The world is often more mixed than you'd think. For example, it's not like
Trump supporters all absolutely reject progressive ideals.
[http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-voters-climate-
cha...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-voters-climate-change-
poll_us_572a3072e4b0bc9cb0455ee4)

~~~
maxxxxx
Americans need to stop dividing themselves into liberal and conservative.
People are much more complex. This way of thinking is the best recipe for an
eventual civil war and in the meantime it stops any reasonable political
discourse.

~~~
rrrrsss99
Not really. Most of the population is near the middle and doesn't care how you
label them. People on the fringes are loud. That's all you're hearing.

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chrisco255
Some of the best, kindest, most giving people I know are conservative. They're
your firefighters, your nurses, your doctors, your mechanics, your teachers...
Many, many people that are deep and complex and everything they believe is not
wrong. This author would do well to acquaint himself with the side he
demonizes and get to know people outside his bubble and the lens of
propaganda.

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xiaoma
This piece is disturbingly ageist and naive in parts:

 _" That’s not because you’re inexperienced — it’s because you’re right. Your
generation is, by definition, further ahead on the march of progress than
everyone else. It is literally you who cause the progress as older people die
and you rise into power."_

The exact same thing was claimed by the young generations who grew into
adulthood along with the rise of multiple fascist and communist regimes.
Sometimes change is progress and sometimes it's not. Assuming that new beliefs
are correct _because_ they are new is dangerous and wrong.

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xupybd
If being liberal is right, why do a lot of people switch camps when they get
older. You get less correct with age? Or maybe it's a little more complex than
that?

~~~
jdale27
I think in general people just want more stability as they get older,
including protecting the wealth and status they've accumulated. Rightly or
wrongly, this might encourage them to support the "conservative" side, which
purports to want to protect the status quo and the way things were in "the
good old days".

~~~
xupybd
When dealing with the conservative, liberal divide I don't think right or
wrong are the correct way to look at things. I myself have shifted from
liberal to conservative. I don't think patting my self on the back saying I'm
correct and congratulating everyone who agrees with me is productive. I want a
better society for myself, my family and for everyone else. My view on the way
to get there has changed, that doesn't make me better or worse than someone
that wants to try a different way.

~~~
jdale27
Agreed. I think "a better society for myself, my family and for everyone else"
is what a lot of people want. (I would have said it's what _most_ people want,
except for the part about also wanting it "for everyone else".) Unfortunately,
strategies for attempting to achieve a better society reside in an incredibly
complex multi-dimensional space, but the media and the US political system
force those strategies to be projected down onto a single dimension of liberal
versus conservative, then discretized into two sides. The end result being
that probably most people are unhappy with the way political discourse is
carried out, but can't do anything productive about it. At least that's how I
feel right now...

~~~
flowersoldier
A lot of people I know feel that way too. We're all somebody's son or
daughter. We may have sons or daughters of our own. I don't have kids, but I
want to see a better world for my niece and nephews.It's really about the
kids.

Things have been working Great for a lot of people in this country, but not
for the average working person working 40 hours/week for $16k dollars/year.

It used to be we could expect our kids to have more opportunities than their
parents, but that's no longer the case.

That's what we have to fix.

~~~
jdale27
Sure. But while most of us are happy to work our asses off to improve our own
status and our family's status, how many of us really put a significant amount
of effort (time or money) into improving things for people who are worse off
than we are? Especially when many of the people who need help seem to hold
opinions that we find repugnant -- racism, sexism, LGBTQ hate, etc.

One thing this election has made clear to me is that we can't rely on the
government to safeguard our society. The Republicans, of course, want to
actively dismantle the government, while the Democrats (at least as
represented by Clinton) will put in the minimum effort required to give the
appearance of adequate progress to their base, while still effectively
pursuing the same primary goal as the Republicans: further enrichment of the
1%. In other words, I don't see another New Deal or even a Great Society
happening any time soon, unless there is a huge swing of the pendulum back in
the other direction in 2018 and 2020.

I've been trying carefully not to turn this into a partisan rant. What I've
really been wondering to myself the last few days is whether and how it's
possible to effect positive change in society in a way that is scalable and
routes around the brokenness of politics. (And preferably doesn't require me
to quit my job and work for some broke-ass non-profit...)

~~~
xupybd
Racism, sexism and homophobia are not issues the government need have a
monopoly on. More good is done when attitudes are changed and hearts are won.
I'm not sure the current approach of vilifying opponents will work. But most
people have more compassion than they're given credit for. Engaging with
people challenging false ideas and encouraging good ones can improve things.
But in order for that to happen people from the differing views need to have
contact and meaningful dialogue. I fear society is stratifying. Telling people
they need to love people of other races, genders, sexual orientation and
faiths while calling them nasty bigots sends mixed messages.

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superbatfish
This piece isn't great. Sure, I agree that the election outcome was bad. In
fact, I think it was an utter disaster. This piece tells young people
(presumably, "millenials") not to worry, it'll be okay in the end. But it's
too easily interpreted as "don't take action, it all works out in the end
anyway".

A TON of millenials didn't vote in this election, and that's why the values
they cherish (or will soon realize they cherish) will be trampled over.
Marco's message isn't a call to action; instead it's placating. I hope someday
we can look back and say "well, that was just a wrong turn." But goshdarnit, 3
days after the election is too early for that!

PS -- Like other commenters, I agree that this piece is a little too
simplistic in its view of young=liberal=good and old=conservative=bad. I don't
agree with that, and besides, it's a little tasteless to imply "don't worry,
those people that disagree with you will die soon enough."

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gravypod
> Obama didn’t (and couldn’t) fix everything Bush broke. But we did fix most
> of it, and made a lot of progress in major new areas as well. Overall, we
> came out way ahead.

The Drone and Stuxnet programs are far from a step forward. Every president
seems to bring us to a worse state then before. It's not a political line that
needs to be drawn but instead one of corruption.

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rrrrsss99
"we suffered through that horrific administration"

Thousands of Americans died and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's and Afgani's
died. You obviously weren't one of them. Your weren't part of that. You went
to college and lived your life in peace, but somehow you suffered as much as
the people who watched their families die and their countries fall apart
because your "conscience hurt".

