

How to quit your job and build a startup - mikesabat
http://shelfmade.wordpress.com/2008/01/22/how-to-quit-your-job-to-build-a-startup/

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tptacek
Also? Arguing for a raise, and then quitting 3 months later after mentally
checking out of your job for 3 months? Bit of a dick move.

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mikesabat
Yes, it is a dick move. I wrote this post in response to a YCr asking about
quitting their job to work on a startup in the face of this possible
recession.

Not to be a jaded asshole, but there are many companies that don't really care
about their employees and cutback etc to increase profits. Sure 2 wrongs don't
make a right, but this raise will fund your company which can care about
employees. Also, asking for a raise is empowering and a boost to your self
confidence. In my example this comes at a time when you are overworked and a
bit uncertain about your future.

~~~
tptacek
It's funny that everyone thinks of "the evil company" when they make decisions
like this, but never talk about what they're doing to their coworkers.

~~~
mikesabat
I don't understand. Surely you aren't arguing that you shouldn't ever quit a
job because of the way that it will effect your coworkers, are you?

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tptacek
You're correct. Surely I'm not arguing that. That would be a stupid argument.
What I am arguing is that deliberately stiffing your employer for a raise
while spending all your real cycles building your own company can fuck over
your teammates.

Look, you just said you agreed it was a dick move. Great! Do you agree with
what you yourself said, or not?

~~~
mikesabat
Yes of course. I would guess that you check out YC News or Reddit throughout
the workday. Most people take care of personal business or watch funny videos
on company time. Nobody works 8 hours straight.

We are describing 2 different employment situations. You are picturing a team
environment where everyone has to carry the load to reach a common goal that
you feel is meaningful, I'm not. The job I'm thinking of is more like Fight
Club or Office Space.

People that have truly team oriented employment where coworkers are working
towards a worthwhile goal are less likely to be jumping ship for a startup.

It can be a dick move to the company, but I've seen companies treat people a
lot worse.

~~~
tptacek
I'm not trying to prolong this, or be petulant or pedantic, but you don't have
to be working for Greenpeace to have dependencies and shared goals. Your
project slips 6 months because you were dead wood during dev and QA while you
learned Rails, and you just fucked over everyone else whose bonus and raise
depended on the project.

We don't have to argue about this because I think we agree.

The more important point is, if you need to come up with an elaborate plan to
figure out to engage your new company, you haven't figured out what your new
company is. There's a YC meme going around here, along the lines of "is now a
good time to start my company?" or "what's the best way to smoothly transition
into my new startup?". None of that means shit. 2 months into your startup you
are going to face some problem that is going to be an existential threat to
your project, and it's all going to go badly, and you're going to have to
figure out how to work through it anyways, and all this talk about how to
"start the startup" and "milk your last job" is going to sound pretty silly.

~~~
mikesabat
Cheers, we agree. I'm not a programmer so I don't have that perspective
(probably added to the confusion). As I said on your previous comment, I wrote
the post in response to someone asking about quitting their job.

I definitely agree that people asking for random advice on YC about tiptoeing
in may be in trouble when problems occur, and they will occur early in the
startup.

I'm having the 2 month problems now. If I would have quit my job when I was
overly excited earlier in the journey I would be facing some seriously hard
times.

Goodluck :)

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tptacek
I read this article for literally all of 5 seconds before getting pissed off.
The answer to this "question" is simple, but you can get 1500 word blog posts
voted up for it because nobody wants to hear the answer, which is (1) build a
viable startup, and then (2) quit your job. Or! If you're daring and an
extremely excellent salesperson, you can try (1) quitting your job and then
(2) starting a company.

If you need to think past either of these two strategies before "deciding"
whether to start a company, you're not going to start a company.

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mixmax
Start-ups are a cut-throat business where very few succeed. The less serious
you are about it, the greater the chance that you will fail. And to be frank,
working on your startup in weekends probably won't get you ahead of the pack.

If you want to do a successful startup I think that you it needs all your
attention.

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mattmaroon
Does this guy have any credibility? He sure doesn't speak as if his rant is
mere conjecture, yet doesn't have any supporting data or even anecdotes. As
far as I can tell from the about page, he's a guy with a flaming turd of a
startup telling other people how to be successful.

This article seems to be mainly about how to not succeed.

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mikesabat
Hey Matt, Good to meet you as well.

Some perspective: I'm not a coder, yet I am starting a web business. I
previously founded and grew a non-tech startup to 2 million in revenue in our
first 18 months. I fucked it up and made a horrible exit with very little
cash.

Currently, I'm on step 5 of the blog post, with a new raise working both a
full-time job and a startup company.

I do worry about market risk, so I'm researching several customers for the
technology besides the obvious B2C. My biggest concern is a roadblock with
google also focusing on the concept for ShelfMade.
<http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/11/19/google-magazine/>

Not to start a fight, but I will be kicking your ass in fantasy football next
year. And if ShelfMade has revenue or funding, we'll be doing it on Yahoo
fantasy sports, agreed?

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mattmaroon
Ha, sorry to hear about the bad exit. And if we qualify the revenue with some
dollar figure then I'll even agree to the yahoo thing.

