
Scoble: Why I'm treating startups more critically lately - domino
https://plus.google.com/111091089527727420853/posts/NN7YJRT7S8m
======
ekidd
MVPs force founders to (1) talk to customers and (2) actually ship something.

Most early-stage founders I meet are working in a vacuum. They have ideas, but
no way to validate those ideas against reality. Mostly, they're just wasting
time on half-baked visions of world domination. The game doesn't start until
you ask a customer for money.

It's a bit like whitewater kayaking: You can float around all day looking at
the rapids, but eventually you've got to let the current suck you downstream
towards the waves and rocks.

Now, maybe in Scoble's world, the rules are different. He sees so many
startups that anything less than perfection on the first try is a failure. But
this suggests that Scoble's market is getting saturated—perhaps we already
have enough mobile/social/local apps for tech bloggers?

Maybe it's time to listen to patio11, and find markets where _any_ solution at
all will make users climb across their desks with a checkbook in hand.

~~~
patio11
It takes an awful lot of work to be the sixth most impressive thing Scoble (or
the New York Times, or Techcrunch, or $PICK_A_GATEKEEPER) will see this week.
It takes much, much less work to offer a better user experience than a) an
Excel spreadsheet sent over email, b) having your office manager act as the
endpoint to a REST API, or c) doing anything involving actual paper. These are
frequently the competition in underserved markets.

There's a million fun, valuable, important problems to solve out there which
you go grow old and die without ever reading about on a Valley blog.

------
pace
Tons of useless advice from a guy who never delivered a product himself --
excuse my harsh words. Scoble was/is/stays a blogger, always blogging while
having a safe job. He never raised, never started a real venture or done an
exit. This guy hasn't got the vaguest idea of what it is to quit your job,
start a venture and take high risks. Never experienced how the lowest points
of a startup-life full of despair can feel. His words are counter-productive,
destroy motivation and are just wrong in many regards (e.g. MVP, etc.).

Those who can, do -- those who can't, teach.

Why should we listen to him?

~~~
revorad
_Why should we listen to him?_

Because he spends a lot of time looking at new products and technologies. He
really tries them out. He does fantastic interviews with founders, often
asking quite good questions about the products.

He's built a huge network of people who consider him a credible source for new
product recommendations. Getting featured by him can be huge for an early
stage product.

Just because someone is a blogger, it doesn't make their advice useless.

Programming is not the only valuable thing in the world. Learn to respect
other professions. You're not going to make it without them.

~~~
pace
Everybody can

\- spend a lot of time with new products and tech (no achievement)

\- try them really out (no achievement)

\- do interviews and they are not fantastic (no achievement)

\- nowadays build a huge network w/Facebook, G+, LinkedIn (no achievment)

It is no achievement to blog while sitting for years at Microsoft doing some
wishy-washy corporate job. But it is an achievement to build a startup, get
traction and raise money w/empty pockets and a family to feed -- and that's
just more than "programming". Don't get me wrong but this is a different
psychological level than blogging from your safe job.

~~~
mgkimsal
He hasn't been at Microsoft in years, and has taken positions at 'upstart'
type companies or divisions within larger companies (podtech and rackspace
spring to mind).

His 'blogging from his safe job' involves a fair amount of travel, disruption
to routine home/family life, and an insane amount of work that goes in to his
productions (hint - he does a lot of video, not just 'text blogging').

All that said, I think he (and most of tech journalism) has given most
startups a bit of a free pass, and glad to see his current stance (although it
feels about 5 years too late).

~~~
pace
Either you start a start-up or you don't -- just being employed by an startup
doesn't make you a good advisor for founders -- again Scoble never founded
something, he is just blogging while having a safe job.

~~~
mgkimsal
If "founders" are that selective and narrow about who they take advice from,
they're going to have much bigger problems down the road.

That accountant they use? Never built a startup.

The lawyer who's managing all their contracts? Never built a startup.

The bankers at Goldman Sachs who's taking them public? Never built a startup.

Yeah - to hell with all of them - they've never been a "founder" so what the
fuck would they know about "founding" something, right?

------
drusenko
Scoble is telling you what he wants to see before you show it to him and hope
he writes about it, but that's literally miles away from where a startup first
gets off the ground.

Before even talking to Scoble, a startup should have come up with the idea,
have built a first version, launched as early as possible (but only after what
you have is better/more useful than what is currently out there), found a core
group of users that sticks around and uses the product, and iterated based on
their feedback.

The fact is, this is likely to take at least a year, if not more. And only
after you think you've achieved product-market fit should you be going after
the press "big guns".

Don't take Scoble's post as advice on how to get a startup off the ground --
take it as advice on how far along you should be before you pitch him.

~~~
david927
No please _do_ take this as advice on how to get a startup off the ground.
There's more here than "Scoble wants polished startups."

What he's saying is that many products are similar to other efforts with
additional features. That's not going to cut it. Page Rank wasn't a little bit
better than existing search engines. It wasn't Yahoo but with feature x,y,z;
it was a completely new approach to vetting results. I won't switch for a few
features. I don't care if you're better; I care if you're solidly different.

Show us the insight! Show us the corner turned. Show us why this rocket has
escape velocity when all others fell back to earth. Stop trying to simply make
money and start trying to significantly innovate.

~~~
nandemo
I don't know, he doesn't sound like he would've given a damn about PageRank if
Sergey and Larry had gone to talk to him back then. He might have dismissed
the first version of Google because they didn't index as many pages as the
leading search engines. Look at his own example:

> Another company tonight that I met showed me a similar app, when I started
> it up (I do that while you talk to me) it gave me an error. Gone.

For all we know that company might have created some revolutionary technology
but, who knows, their build system is still crappy and they forgot to change a
symlink somewhere?

~~~
david927
_he doesn't sound like he would given a damn about PageRank_

He wouldn't have. If probably wouldn't have -- if they pitched the idea but
the site wasn't working. But the first time I used Google I said, "Wow! This
is vastly superior to anything else."

If I understand him correctly, he's not saying, "Don't launch until it's
perfect." He's saying, "Differentiate yourself." He can't see that if your
site doesn't work or it's just Existing Site X with a couple more features. An
MVP works. An MVP shows how it is Significantly Different. In fact, that's
exactly the purpose of an MVP -- not to show that you could build and publish.

~~~
tokenadult
_But the first time I used Google I said, "Wow! This is vastly superior to
anything else."_

That was exactly my experience. I first became curious about Google because it
was spidering my personal website, well before when Google became the name of
the project. By tracing back where the Web spider came from, I tried out
searches, and by the time Google was Google, I was recommending it to all my
friends as much superior to AltaVista (the king of the hill in search in those
days), and all the more superior to the also-rans in search. Being
substantially better at something is what every startup needs to achieve.

------
jroseattle
Scoble is the TMZ of the tech industry. I view him largely in the same sense
as paparazzi. He has a video camera and a bunch of followers, but little in
the way of substance.

His past proclamations, i.e. Google Gears will kill MS Office, Google Chrome
OS has already won, put him on very shaky ground with me from a credibility
standpoint. That said, I don't discount all future comments from the guy.

In this post, he does offer up some sound advice: clear use case, compelling
product -- but really, if you're in the business this shouldn't be news to you
anyway.

Unfortunately, one is forced to look past the short-sighted, the mis-aligned
or the presumptive to find any take-away value. Focus on a use-case, but make
sure the app works for everybody? Magical applications are those where people
make comments right away? Without Facebook or Twitter integration, your app is
lame? The narrow-minded-ness of these comments simply reflect Robert's lack of
scope on the world.

The fact that he's arriving at these conclusions now shows more about his
thought process than anything else.

------
praptak
_"Instagram? I had five comments within two minutes (and that was back when
there was only 80 users on it)."_

Take note: ask your friends back at the HQ to pose as enthusiastic users while
you're pitching your next app :)

~~~
rokhayakebe
Better yet, just Mechanical_Turk it. 2 cents per comment.

------
jiggy2011
_If it doesn't do something with both Facebook and Twitter (with Google+ to
come) then you are gonna look lame._

Am I the only person who feels slightly bored that about 50% of startups I
hear about are basically all about sharing links on social networking
websites?

~~~
YourAnMoran
Well I agree. There are billions of bucks to be made in the domains of
enterprise and industrial applications, and social network integration is not
really a business case there - maybe just a potential security issue.

Since when did start-up become synonymous with _consumer application_ start-
up?

~~~
mindcrime
_Since when did start-up become synonymous with consumer application start-
up?_

If it makes you feel any better, our startup is enterprise focused. Not
_everybody_ is focused on just consumer apps.

I don't know about you guys, but I am enticed by the idea of selling something
to organizations that generally expect to (and do) spend actual money on
products and services. The whole advertising based, or even freemium model,
world of consumer apps just doesn't resonate with me. Not saying it doesn't
work, obviously it does. Just saying that it doesn't feel like where I
personally want to be.

~~~
jiggy2011
Your right, almost all of the consumer apps seem to revolve around ads and
harvesting data. Is there not a market for pay-for consumer apps that let
people do something interesting with their devices?

~~~
AznHisoka
Actually I don't think there is. Consumers have gotten used to free, and 50%
daily deals... The only way to make a profitable consumer business is to make
the consumers the products themselves. This is with apps though, with hardware
it's different obviously. There are some exceptions like Photoshop, and
operating systems... but by and large, it's hard

------
coderdude
Gruber: Tells you to develop apps for iPhone -- doesn't develop apps for
iPhone

Scoble: Tells you how to create a successful startup -- never even tried

Can we start getting some advice from people who actually do this shit for a
living?

~~~
adestefan
Scoble isn't telling you how to create a successful startup. He's telling you
how to create something that he'll use and in turn hype and recommend. If
that's what you want, then listen to his advice. Otherwise, just forget it.

~~~
coderdude
He is telling you how to create a successful startup (see: the ordered list
under "Some advice:"). He just also sprinkles in little hints on how to wow
him personally. He talks about how he scolds CEOs/entrepreneurs because he
doesn't agree with how they're doing things or what they think will make them
succeed. Yet he can only speculate on what might make you succeed.

That's the same as Darren Rowse (problogger.net) not having a blog and never
having blogged before but still giving you advice on how to become a pro
blogger.

------
dchuk
I love how he has 7 key pieces of advice for startups to follow if they don't
want to fail, and there is not a single mention of revenue, let alone profit,
whatsoever.

But don't forget to integrate with Twitter or you'll look like a dummy!

~~~
revorad
If no one uses the damn thing, you won't even get a shot at making any
revenue. That's what he's getting at.

------
viandante
I am assuming Scoble is a famous guy. As he expects quality from wannabe
entreprenours, I would then expect quality in his analysis, which I don't
think (allow me to give a honest opinion) is true.

He forgets totally about the business sector. A crappy looking app with some
errors would still be years of light ahead of consolidating a P&L from 30
different excel files sent from 30 different parts of the world.

Don't know, maybe people are focusing too much on the same thing.

~~~
Angostura
Examine what he says a little closer:

"...the market is very crowded now for certain kinds of apps. Especially
location-based and social network ones. So, if you're gonna pitch me something
it better provide magic. Angels better sing when I open your app up.
Otherwise, why should I use your app instead of Instagram, Foodspotting,
Foursquare, Yelp, or my new ones, Batch, SocialCam, or Oink?"

So yes, he's not concentrating on the business sector. On the other hand, the
very first piece of advice he gives would rule your hypothetical application
in _in_ :

1\. Have at least one very clear, and cool, use case. I.E. have something you
can show someone else that makes them say "oh, my, that's freaking useful."

In fact the first 5 pieces of advice also apply.

~~~
viandante
I did read that, but the focus of his article was clearly on quality good
looking apps. I would push more for quality of processes. How does this app
make the business more efficient? How much the client saves using this app?
Etc.

He makes some good point, they just don't apply everywhere. And even if he
says people are doing too many similar apps, his examples are still about the
kind of apps he complains about in the first place. You see the flaw?

------
tobiasu
I don't know a single app(?) whose names he mentioned in this article. I
simply can not connect these new product/startup names with what they're
supposed to be doing for me.

Curious if anyone else has this experience.

------
JulianMiller520
I'm reminded of a scene in the now-defunct "Playmakers" TV series. It entails
a football player mouthing off to an aide who then bets the player that he can
get the ball further down the field than the arrogant player. The player takes
the bet and launches the ball a solid distance down the field. The aide waits
for a maintenance cart to drive past. He tosses the ball into the back of the
cart and watches as it rolls past the player's ball.

The player assumed that winning the game depended on his arm alone when the
truth was many things had to align with that arm to win games. The vantage
point from the turf isn't the only one.

~~~
mindcrime
_The player takes the bet and launches the ball a solid distance down the
field. The aide waits for a maintenance cart to drive past. He tosses the ball
into the back of the cart and watches as it rolls past the player's ball._

There's a similar sequence in the movie "Tin Cup" where two golfers make a bet
about who can hit a ball the farthest. One hits his ball actually onto the
golf course where lands in some grass, rolls a foot or two and stops. The
other guy hits his ball onto the highway where it lands on the asphalt and
rolls and rolls and rolls and rolls...

 _The player assumed that winning the game depended on his arm alone when the
truth was many things had to align with that arm to win games. The vantage
point from the turf isn't the only one._

Indeed. Having something like that to break one out of one's tunnel vision and
preconceived notions can be a powerful thing.

------
AznHisoka
If I were to make an app/product, I hope Scoble is the LAST guy in my target
audience. I want moms, corporate CEOs, team leads, fitness trainers,
restaurant owners, heck even teachers.. anyone but Scoble.

------
adaml_623
If I say that he sounds like a Hollywood Producer talking about what he wants
to see in his next script then I hope people follow the analogy.

He uses 33000 people to tell him it's good. So you get things that appeal to
the average.

There is no place for niche apps and no cult hits in his world. Just the sexy
and the summer blockbuster.

But there are other lots of other bloggers out there in the world.

------
pace
My thoughts to his post consolidated:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3243330>

------
shouteagle
If your app is targeted at the 40 something marketing demographic, Scoble and
his audience can provide you quite a bit of sound advice.

------
rgrieselhuber
I was hoping to see something about having an actual business model in his
advice. Alas.

