
The things first time founders do… - andreasklinger
http://klinger.io/post/16308736248/dont-be-a-first-time-founder
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lamby
The "agree? tweet this" link next to every singleee item in the list rather
devalues the whole thing.

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tbsdy
Personally, that hashtag is so unfortunately awesome that I'm going to use it
at every opportunity! #foundersexchange

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pi18n
"I'm not only a founder, I'm a member too!" #foundersexchange

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JMStewy
I appreciate founders sharing their experiences like this, but I feel like
most of this list suffers from premature generalization. Especially if these
are lessons learned the hard way, I'd rather hear more of a "war story".

Some, like "They plan details about sh*t that never sees the light of day" are
quite self-sufficient, but some of the others are pretty vague or even come
across as contradictory. "They seek too much advice from too many sources with
too many conflicting views" but also "They do mental incest by bouncing ideas
off the same people every time"? I know that different founders make different
mistakes, but I'm still in the dark on how to find the happy middle.

For ones like that, or "They have no clue about their market", I want to hear
what happened! What's the story behind the advice?

I know that this is beyond the scope of a list like this, but maybe it could
be fodder for some future blog posts.

~~~
iusable
I agree! Some of the things are even contradictory from what you hear in the
Lean Startup echo chamber now. They would make a ton more sense if they
carried examples or some sort of 'war story'.

I started a new thread just last night for this -
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3498421> \- Bootstrapped Consumer Web
Startup Stories? #Win and #Fail.

I am not sure how to get this conversation started, but I really would love to
hear from the community on HN.

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shin_lao
_They found an “GmbH, SARL, OOD, DOO, LTDa, A, BVO, Sp. Zoo, SRO, TAA or OOO”
and wonder why international VCs don’t bother_

If people want to invest in your company, its legal form is of little
importance.

Changing the legal structure for a small company isn't a problem and any
serious VC can even help you with that.

I never heard of someone not investing in a company because it didn't have the
proper legal form.

~~~
jonnathanson
I think the broader point (I think?) is that first-time founders often run off
to consult with a lawyer right out of the gate. As a result, they'll spend
thousands of dollars, and lots of time, protecting themselves from imaginary
legal threats -- time and dollars that should have been allocated to product
development at this stage in the game.

If, at the moment, your startup consists of the proverbial two guys in a
garage, it's highly unlikely that you need to spend $10,000+ on a lawyer's
counsel and advice. Build your product first. You're not even on the radar
yet, so it's not as if Google or Facebook even know who you are, let alone
want to steal your idea. And chances are, someone's doing your idea anyhow.
Chances are, ten people are doing your idea right now. Your best defense isn't
legal action; it's product traction.

There's a time and a place for lawyers, but right up front is usually not it.
Unless you've got some sort of truly innovative, groundbreaking technological
innovation on your hands.

~~~
mgkimsal
"There's a time and a place for lawyers, but right up front is usually not it.
Unless you've got some sort of truly innovative, groundbreaking technological
innovation on your hands."

The bigger problem I see is that many people actually think they've _got_
something innovative, unique, groundbreaking or patentable. A "social network
for dog lovers" is probably _not_ patentable, certainly not that unique or
groundbreaking, and none of it matters without execution and a userbase
(ideally of paying customers). But I run in to many people who fret way too
much over "how can I protect my (one and only) idea?!!"

We need have a "Founder's Daily Prayer":

"God grant me the wisdom to execute on the mundane aspects of my business,
legal protection for the truly innovative and patentable aspects of my
business, and the wisdom to discern between the two".

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MartinMond
Coming from the hardcore developer side I saw myself in some of those,
especially in

    
    
      They do mental incest by bouncing ideas off the same people every time.
      They have no clue about their market.
      They confuse certain customer assumptions with facts.
    

I'd like to add one that hit me especially hard

    
    
      They turn their sleep cycle into crap due to poor planning and for arbitrary deadlines
    

It's actually strange that it took Eric Ries' to get
verification/falsification into the wider Startup echo chamber. Engineers
should know better :)

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adsahay
They waste time and energy optimizing their code and architecture for a
million users, when they only have a 100.

~~~
rokhayakebe
I know someone who spent days and weeks worrying about this. "But, Rokhaya,
millions of people will come to the site so .....". Needless to say the site
is still on <http://localhost/>

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vide0star
This is too general to be helpful. I think it's dangerous to try to distill
entrepreneurship to a few bullet points of advice. Starting a company is
complicated and nuanced. It takes years of hardwork. It's great to pass on
experience of failures or successes, but would be better served in a more
detailed format so it can be useful.

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rglover
This is kind of a bummer. As a first time founder, it's not really helpful to
read a list of things that you _may_ be doing wrong (especially when there is
no mention of a correct path to take - you're simply led to believe that you
should do the opposite).

Another point of contention was:

 _We have been working on our Startup for 3 years now and there were more
reasons that it should have collapsed than I can think of._

Is it possible that actually _making_ these mistakes is how you get better?
I'm all for primers and advice, but something is missing here.

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andreasklinger
First of all sorry if the list is not helpful. Kinda hoped for people like you
to find santiy-checks for their current process in there.

Regarding your point about making mistakes: I assume the truth is inbetween.

As said it's harder for me to give advice "what works" because stuff that
works is usually more specific. But i will try in future to rather focus on
actionable stuff that works instead of warning signs

~~~
rglover
As far as "sanity-checks," I feel like you've accomplished this. When I see
lists like these, though, I hope there's something I can chew on; a couple of
sentences that further articulate the point being made (this may be a personal
thing, but it helps me to really "get" the point). There's nothing wrong with
warning signs, but warning signs aren't necessarily what you're doing wrong
(rather, just a hint that you _might_ be).

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kyt
Read hacker news all day and don't actually work on their startup.

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andreasklinger
Please share your things you did or notice with first time founders here… I am
happy to extend the list ;)

~~~
revorad
They create some of the greatest companies and businesses the world has ever
seen. Let's not forget that one.

~~~
andreasklinger
love that one :)

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phzbOx
Hacking for 6 months before releasing a mvp before getting in touch with real
customers.

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DrorY
I am sorry but this seems somewhat contradictory:

(i)They are arrogant and ignorant to any feedback they don’t want to hear.

(ii) They seek too much advice from too many sources with too many conflicting
views.

Seeking advice is the opposite of being arrogant, and if seeking advice is a
mistake it's only because you listen to too much of it, thus making you too
responsive to other people's thoughts, not ignorant towards them.

~~~
andreasklinger
Agree.

The second was added by suggestions.

But to be honest. Although contradicting. Both happend to me.

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DrorY
well perhaps these are different phases. At first when you're looking for an
idea you are looking for good advice, but once you've set your mind on
something there's no need to hear anything discouraging. There are enough
reasons why things won't work, I don't need to hear them.

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iusable
The two that really stuck out for me personally -

They underestimate everything apart of one thing: Themselves. They don’t get
that a low burnrate and being prelaunch doesn’t mean you have more time to
waste.

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mmahemoff
Looking forward to the Failboat event, added it on Lanyrd:
<http://lanyrd.com/2012/failboat-february/>

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zbowling
This sums up my attempt doing my own startup with my cofounder last year
perfectly. We did our YC interview and got a reality check. Did about half
these things.

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surfmike
Why is "They launch in one month." a mistake? Aren't startups advised to
launch early, then iterate? Unless he's implying that waiting a month is too
long...

~~~
andreasklinger
because it's never in "one month". This one month becomes half a year…

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skrish
They debate endlessly about getting 'enough' customers who may need a feature
instead of talking to potential customers and actually finding out. :)

~~~
andreasklinger
I agree. they jump the first one, the first 10, first 100 and worry about the
first 1000 ;)

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floris
I'd like to point out that these days it's perfectly fine to have a GmbH as
your company structure for international investments.

~~~
andreasklinger
I'd love to agree. Can you please provide proof for that. I only experienced
the complete opposite. Even if it was "ok" it would have lowered our upside by
a percentage on the long run.

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Iroiso
What do you think is the ideal way to structure your international startup
then? I'm thinking about how to go about this now?

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lfittl
For Europeans: Create a UK Ltd holding company, and a local entity for each
country you operate in. Happy to answer specific questions by email (we're UK
Ltd holding with local AT GmbH)

You can also save that local entity by moving the UK Ltd into your country and
registering it in the local company registry (EU only) - great article on how
to do this: [http://www.internetszene.at/2009/03/31/checkliste-limited-
od...](http://www.internetszene.at/2009/03/31/checkliste-limited-oder-gmbh/)
(German, unfortunately)

~~~
agranig
What was your reason to do both a Ltd in UK and a GmbH in Austria?

We've registered an Austrian GmbH couple of years ago and haven't had any
issues with that so far. The break-down of voting rights and shares are
directly bound to how the common stock (usually 35k€ in AT) is being split.
When it comes to investment rounds, the investors either increase the common
stocks or buy it from the other shareholders for the nominal price (the
percentage of the common stock value). The whole process is strictly bound to
a formal process (a notarial act), which can get quite expensive, which is the
only down-side in the long run.

On the other hand, Ltds still have some shady smack for some reasons over here
(one is that you're seen as being cheap), so when you're an Austrian or German
company, I bet you gonna need to explain as a small startup why you have gone
the Ltd path when talking to big potential customers, and I think this is
something you want to avoid at that stage ("act like how you want to be seen,
not like who you are", and each serious company here is a GmbH). I understand
that it's a big turn-off for young founders to put in 17.5k€ in cash from the
start (which is the minimum amount to be provided when founding), but it pays
off when it comes to reputation, at least when acting in the B2B business.

~~~
lfittl
The simple fact that GmbH law greatly differs from UK/US corporate law makes
it uncommon, and therefore cumbersome for any interested UK/US investors.
Though obviously if you've got the traction they'll just bite through.

Also things like stock options, reverse vesting, convertible notes turn into
overly complex issues when trying to re-create them in GmbH law.

And besides the additional bookkeeping/accounting burden, I have not
encountered any issues with our current setup.

In regard to why Ltd+GmbH: We found the move-the-Ltd-to-Austria process a bit
complicated, and also encountered the issue you mention, that people think of
Ltds being shady/not trustworthy.

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Brajeshwar
Jumping too soon at Partnership deals and thinking that the other parties are
better than you!

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tosh
Great write up & many phrases that sound very very familiar :)

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daylonsoh
guilty for some points. Glad, we moved on.

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tbsdy
Nothing like the founders discussing their change of gender on
#foundersexchange.

~~~
janus
They are missing an underscore there... _#founder_sex_ehh..._
#founders_exchange

