
How ISIS Produced Its Cruel Arsenal at Scale - Eduardo3rd
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/10/world/middleeast/isis-bombs.html
======
jacobr
For a more detailed story on how they ran their manufacturing, regarding
armored vehicles in particular, there is a fascinating story about The
Workshop

> The facility would perform a wide variety of overhauls and upgrades on
> nearly all types of armoured fighting vehicles in use with the Islamic
> State, ranging everything from installing multi-spectral camouflage on tanks
> to the up-armouring of AFVs and even constructing modular turrets for
> installation on four-wheel drive vehicles such as the Toyota Land Cruiser.

[http://spioenkop.blogspot.se/2017/08/armour-in-islamic-
state...](http://spioenkop.blogspot.se/2017/08/armour-in-islamic-state-story-
of.html)

That blog has several really interesting articles about DIY armour and
fighting vehicles.

~~~
mr_spothawk
Excellent source.

I'm impressed by the variety of tank modifications!

~~~
plussed_reader
Yeah, I don't see why we need a defense industry. Obviously the boutique
market is handling demand just fine.

------
chrisseaton
Some of this is pretty patronising. Amongst the advanced techniques they are
surprised Islamic State are able to apply they include 'even affixing written
instructions [to weapons]'. It shows you how much people have underestimated
them when they are writing articles about how they can write notes and stick
them on things.

~~~
azernik
Doing so consistently for standard weapons indicates a certain level of
bureaucratic organization.

~~~
chrisseaton
Well that's what I mean. People seem absolutely dumfounded that these people
are able to form basic bureaucratic organisational structures. They aren't
simple people. Many of them have higher education from western countries.
They're running their military using the same techniques we do, all the way
from similar formal tactics on the ground up to social media PR operations.
Them being able to write notes on weapons is the least of our worries.

~~~
gaius
_They 're running their military using the same techniques we do_

Well, of course they are. American Green Berets ran an extensive "train the
trainer" programme in Afghanistan, bootstrapping the precursors of the Taliban
into a military that could take on the Soviets.

Then once the Soviets were gone, the factions turned on each other, which
meant, they continued to practice and refine what they have learned. An ISIS
equivalent of a Drill Sergeant probably isn't too different from his Western
counterpart...

~~~
azernik
That's the Taliban in Afghanistan. ISIS grew out of the very different Iraqi
context.

The real origin of ISIS's organizational skill is the disbanding of the Iraqi
military in 2003 - a totally unnecessary decision on the part of the US that
played a big part in the ensuing chaos in the country. Lots of military
officers from the old regime, disproportionately Sunni, out of a job, and none
too picky about the specific ideologies of the groups that would advance their
sectarian interests, transferred their knowledge to groups like AQI, the
ancestor of ISIS.

~~~
boomboomsubban
The disbanding of the military was part of the DeBa'athification doctrine. It
also banned all members of the Ba'ath party from public employment, including
the various affiliated corporations. Private jobs were surprisingly hard to
find, given the stigma and the whole war thing.

So not only the military knowledge, but the people that know how to run the
factories and the people that can handle the logistics of such a thing. Not to
mention teachers, medical staff, and similar posts.

~~~
sprafa
It seems like it was one of the dumbest decisions in history. Had they kept
the first admnistrator, Jay Garner, who wanted to have elections in 90 days,
you might have had everything Bush stated he wanted - a democratic country in
the Middle East. It would probably have fallen into Iranian influence anyway.
The decision to go for Paul Bremer who chose to disband the Baath party, all
of its members, and delay elections, might eventually be remembered as one of
the greatest geopolitical mistakes in history.

~~~
gaius
They did a ton of other stupid things around the same time. Like changing the
flag for example - all that meant that the old flag became a rallying point
for the rebels. You would think Americans of all people would realize how
potent a symbol a flag is. Then they set up headquarters in Saddam's old
palace...

------
zabana
Western Governments: These terrorists are coming to get you !

General Population: But, but why ?

Western Governements: Because they want to take away your rights and freedoms,
of course !

[Proceed to do exactly that ...]

~~~
musage
That's still way too tame.

> "War is essentially an evil thing. Its consequences are not confined to the
> belligerent states alone, but affect the whole world. To initiate a war of
> aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme
> international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains
> within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."

[http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/judnazi.asp#common](http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/judnazi.asp#common)

Remember embedded journalists? Remember "Mission Accomplished"? Remember
people being accused of "supporting Saddam"?

I'm not excusing ISIS, they are responsible for what they do. It's "just" that
plenty others, still welcome in polite company, are responsible, _too_.
Without that war of aggression built on lies, there would be no ISIS, not at
this scale. That is how ISIS came to produce a "cruel arsenal", as opposed to,
say, a generous arsenal of peace and nation-building, like drones with which
to kill "fun-sized terrorists" (
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/18/life-as-a-
dron...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/18/life-as-a-drone-pilot-
creech-air-force-base-nevada) )

~~~
wallace_f
It is dark to wonder how many of these failures that perpetuate evil in the
world may have been intended? When Eisenhower warned of the creeping power of
the military and its network, was that what led to these circumstances today?
Like the War on Poverty has shown, bureaucratic inertia is a more powerful
force than the good nature of people. Crazy world. We've inherited technology
capable of solving the scarcity problem of food, housing and basic needs but
still find a way to create more BS and misery in the world.

I hate the modern idea that "doing that which is in your best interest is
acceptable. That was very true of the average war-age male during Nazi
Germany. The radical ideology, as was mentioned above of ISIS's origins,
likewise probably played a secondary supporting role to the economics.

Killing people for profit is not OK:
[https://theintercept.com/2016/09/09/wolf-blitzer-is-
worried-...](https://theintercept.com/2016/09/09/wolf-blitzer-is-worried-
defense-contractors-will-lose-jobs-if-u-s-stops-arming-saudi-arabia/)

~~~
musage
> It is dark to wonder how many of these failures that perpetuate evil in the
> world may have been intended?

One person's intention is another's incentive, so in-between that, I don't
think it's dark at all. "Iraq For Sale: The War Profiteers" (
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYa_3oh1-s4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYa_3oh1-s4)
)

You might say "Cheney's buddies" profited from destroying and murdering, they
also profited from "rebuilding", and then the very people who helped create
the mess get even more air time to give their expert opinion, as seen in the
Daily Show's "Now That's What I Call Being Completely F __king Wrong About
Iraq " (
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqzzWr32srk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqzzWr32srk)
).

Hitchens can call comparisons between Haliburton and Islamism "purely
frivolous" and outright orders one to "drop it", like in video linked in the
sibling comment, but such a bald assertion can quite easily be countered with
"no, it's not" and "make me". I prefer to remember the Hitchens that still had
spine and priorities (namely the priority of the actions of oneself and one's
allies being more important than those of people we don't support or even
oppose), as seen for example here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3nAoTev-
RE&t=1h20m00s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3nAoTev-RE&t=1h20m00s) .. the
whole thing is interesting, and quite a stark contrast; he used to advocate
for putting out fires with water, later he started cheerleading for pouring
oil on them. I like the man too much to let him get away with that.

------
knowThySelfx
Suddenly one day how did this "ISIS" spring up so well organized with great
"PR" work. While they were plying their trade in Syria, they didn't seem to
know that their sworn enemies lived just across the border. Wonder why they
never really attacked that country.

~~~
dfsegoat
Because the IDF would have annihilated them. It's far easier to pick on
haphazard regimes, who are generally incapable of organizing strategic
defensive efforts.

Beyond that, ISIS was more about power and wealth than it was about ideology.
The ideology was just a vehicle.

~~~
binarray2000
> Because the IDF would have annihilated them. It's far easier to pick on
> haphazard regimes, who are generally incapable of organizing strategic
> defensive efforts.

Then why do I read an article like this in Jerusalem Post, quoting WSJ:

[http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Report-Israel-treating-
al-Q...](http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Report-Israel-treating-al-Qaida-
fighters-wounded-in-Syria-civil-war-393862)

They even quote Assad:

“Some in Syria joke: 'How can you say that al-Qaida doesn’t have an air force?
They have the Israeli air force',” Assad told Foreign Affairs magazine earlier
this year. “They are supporting the rebels in Syria. It is very clear.”

> ISIS was more about power and wealth than it was about ideology. The
> ideology was just a vehicle.

ISIS/AQ/Whatever-name-their-master-gives-them is a project to destabilize
Syrian government that didn't want to play along with plans of the US empire
for the Middle East. Quick summary of a FOIA document obtained by Judicial
Watch:

[http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/05/newly-
declassified-u-...](http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/05/newly-declassified-
u-s-government-documents-the-west-supported-the-creation-of-isis.html)

BTW, this document was produced in August 2012 by DIA (Defense Intelligence
Agency; basically, Pentagon's Intel Agency). At that moment, guess who was its
chief: Gen. Michael Flynn. Yes, that Flynn you now see in the media.

EDIT: A video of Flynn:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6Y274U7QIs&feature=youtu.be...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6Y274U7QIs&feature=youtu.be&t=8m11s)

~~~
dfsegoat
My apologies for being ignorant of these sources, and even just for failing to
have the imagination to think about that scenario. I will do my homework
better next time. Thank you.

------
exodust
Now called WasWas.

According to the prime minister of Iraq's announcement on Twitter a few days
ago, "Iraq's armed forces have secured the western desert & the entire Iraq
Syria border...this marks the end of the war against Daesh terrorists who have
been completely defeated and evicted from Iraq".

Can we have the name Isis back now? Or at least call them Daesh, they hate
that name.

------
djsumdog
They left out the part where the CIA gave them all their weapons.

~~~
craftyguy
Source?

~~~
josefresco
He/she is probably referring to this:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone)

Which is and isn't relevant.

~~~
knowThySelfx
Or maybe something like this:
[https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/831858/Iraq-ISIS-US-
Mos...](https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/831858/Iraq-ISIS-US-Mosul-Nouri-
al-Makiki-United-States)

~~~
josefresco
All sorts of wrong in the linked article - the source is dubious at best.

"“The same way, ISIS was created to counter the Iraqi stance, which did not
agree to blockade Syria, was against no-fly zones in Syria and against
American military bases.

"The Iraqi society is against foreign military bases on the country's
territory coming back to Iraq and setting up bases here."

The Iraqi official also claimed that it was the country’s military that were
mainly responsible for driving ISIS out of Mosul."

