
Winter War - domnuprofesor
https://en.historylapse.org/winter-war
======
halbrukk
Great documentary, going over ww2 week by week (still ongoing).

Here's an episode at the start of the Winter War[0]. The whole series is worth
a watch though.

[0]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUwCd-j5xL4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUwCd-j5xL4)

Edit: Related, the same people did an entire week by week version of WW1, The
Great War (now complete)[1].

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FgaL0xIazk&list=PLB2vhKMBjS...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FgaL0xIazk&list=PLB2vhKMBjSxO1lsrC98VOyOzfW0Gn8Tga)

~~~
StephenAmar
Great series. I created a patreon account just to support them.

~~~
domnuprofesor
History Lapse also has a Patreon account here:
[https://www.patreon.com/historylapse](https://www.patreon.com/historylapse)

------
Sharlin
_> Kulik and Mekhlis then proceeded to ask how much ammunition Voronov needed
for the forthcoming campaign. ‘That depends,’ replied Voronov. ‘Are you
planning to attack or defend? … With which forces and on which sectors? … And
by the way, how much time is allotted for the operation?’ The reply to the
last point came quickly: ‘Between 10 and 12 days.’ Eyeing the map of Finland
hanging on the wall, Voronov replied: ‘I will be happy if everything can be
resolved within two to three months.’ Everybody laughed derisively. ‘Marshal
Voronov,’ Kulik replied sternly. ‘You are ordered to base all your estimates
on the assumption that the operation will last a maximum of 12 days.’_

Well, doesn't _that_ sound familiar...

~~~
sorokod
This scene has a Dilbert quality.

------
blarg1
Anyone know a good book on the continuation war in english?

~~~
juhanima
Henrik O. Lunde's "Finland's War of Choice" is a very good and objective
description. It's focus is in the German-Finnish co-operation, but I think it
gives a very good overview of the war as well.

~~~
blarg1
thanks

------
markvdb
Latvia being my second home country, I found one photo [0] from the article
particularly interesting. It depicts a communist rally on (at the time)
Brīvibas bulvaris, one of the main boulevards of Riga.

The picture can be dated between July 5th 1940, the announcement of Soviet
rigged elections, and the elections themselves on July 14 and 15, 1940 [1].

The slogans are only half readable, but say something like:

* "Long live our agricultural labourers, farmers and worker intelligentsia!"

* "On July 14-15, at the election, vote for ?our? Latvian labourer bloc"

Very notable in the photo are at least four Latvian flags on the buildings.

For those interested, there's a fairly good wikipedia article [2] about the
first Soviet occupation of Latvia.

[0]
[https://en.historylapse.org/l/be4WoPyQxGOv6enG5lVYznV305LlAm...](https://en.historylapse.org/l/be4WoPyQxGOv6enG5lVYznV305LlAmDN.jpg)

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1940_Latvian_parliamentary_ele...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1940_Latvian_parliamentary_election)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_occupation_of_Latvia_in...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_occupation_of_Latvia_in_1940)

------
avar
Why do so many of these articles on the Winter War just narrowly focus that
particular conflict, instead of covering the Continuation War as well?

Was it a fundamentally different sort of conflict after what amounted to a
brief ceasefire, or is it just politically expedient to ignore that the Finns
continued fighting the Soviets shortly after the Winter War as allies of the
Nazi regime?

~~~
sampo
Allying with Stalin's enemy (Hitler) was pretty much the only option for
Finland (population 3.7 million) to keep the independence against the Soviet
Union (population 170 million). But after 1944, having been allied with
Germany became highly unfashionable, so we try to be a little quiet about it.
But we don't apologize for staying independent.

~~~
ptaipale
This is a bit of a diversion from topic, but the population of Soviet Union,
and how it was calculated, is a very interesting issue.

Stalin expected a fast population growth, and when the 1937 census showed that
he was mistaken, and population of USSR was only 162 million, Stalin had
statisticians sent to the GULAG and some were even executed. After that, many
tried to avoid being nominated for top jobs, out of fear for meeting the same
fate.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_(1937)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_\(1937\))

This kind of dictatorship and purges of competent people certainly lessened
the capabilities of Soviet Union, lead to the unexpected result of the Winter
War, and greatly increased the losses of USSR in the coming great war.

~~~
peisistratos
> This kind of dictatorship and purges of competent people certainly lessened
> the capabilities of Soviet Union, lead to the unexpected result of the
> Winter War, and greatly increased the losses of USSR in the coming great
> war.

It's quite a feat to lessen your capabilities, and still be able to repel an
invasion by all of Europe (sans England, as well as smaller countries like
Switzerland, Ireland etc.)

The other view is Stalin had loyal cadre around him during the war, and did
not have lieutenant colonels with links through the high command making bomb
attempts against him.

~~~
dragonwriter
> It's quite a feat to lessen your capabilities, and still be able to repel an
> invasion by all of Europe

Most of Europe was being attacked (or actively suppressed) by Germany, not
attacking the USSR _with_ Germany, and even Germany was fighting on other
fronts, so it wasn't even “all of Germany”.

------
vertis
This is a great story, and I've read some of it before, but the UX is just
terrible. I was a quarter of the way through before I realised half the story
was hidden in the photos.

~~~
domnuprofesor
the creator of History Lapse here. the UX is not terrible, it is in fact
great. You’re just mouse lazy.

~~~
marssaxman
The UX is terrible for me. If I have to do that much work to make the content
show up, it breaks me out of the flow of reading and I do not absorb the
material as well. I rapidly lost interest and did not finish the article. I
applaud your experiment, and I imagine that there are people for whom it will
be effective, but it is a mistake to imagine that any single form of
presentation can be "in fact great" in an objective way that works for
everyone.

~~~
domnuprofesor
I see your point and I agree. You seem to be an experienced reader with an
interest in history. History Lapse is meant towards the uninitiated youth who
lost interest in history because it is "boring". You can read more about it in
our whitepaper here
[https://en.historylapse.org/whitepaper](https://en.historylapse.org/whitepaper).
In this context of operation I maintain my opinion that the UX solution is
great.

~~~
marssaxman
Thank you for explaining the context. I appreciate your willingness to engage
here. Your characterization of my perspective is correct. I had not heard of
your project before encountering this link, and if I've got a moment later I'd
be happy to read your paper and find out more about what you are doing.

[after reading: this is a great project and I deeply appreciate the amount of
thought that went into its design. It would have been nice if there were some
way to bring more of that awareness into the initial reading experience,
instead of just dropping us into something unfamiliar and confusing, but
that's a limitation of the hackernews interface and I'm not sure what you
could have done about it other than show up and explain as you are doing here.
Keep up the good work!]

------
java-man
pahoillani hyökkäyksestä

~~~
aljmyl
tikulla silmään joka vanhoja muistelee

~~~
java-man
I was shocked when, as a kid, I learned that the official justification for
this war was "the border is too close to Leningrad".

~~~
blarg1
They build the city too close to Finland and then complain Finland is too
close to their city.

~~~
mikeash
Not defending the Soviets in any way here, but St. Petersburg was founded in
1703, and Finland became an independent country in 1917.

~~~
ptaipale
Finland was there, however, already long before that, as an eastern province
of Sweden.

It should be noted, though, that if Finland had stayed as a part of Sweden, it
might not exist as a country today; Sweden has had a policy of forced
assimilation which is shown in how the traditionally Finnish (and Sami)
culture in contemporary northern Sweden has been largely replaced.

Tsar Alexander I ended war against Sweden (1808-1809) with a pact with the
local nobility, if we may call it so, where Finland would be "lifted to be a
nation among nations", and as a result, Finland indeed did become an
autonomous nation.

This is why the "faithful Tsars" have statues in Finland. Finland did not see
itself as a part of Russia, but as a separate nation which just has Russian
emperor as the ruler (Grand Duke). Swedish legislation was preserved (some
laws in law book still date from 1734).

Weaker, pan-Slavic Tsars (Alexander III and Nicholas II) then tried to reverse
this development, and suppress Finnish nationalism, and as a result of this,
Nicholas II was called "the oathbreaker", and due to this and many other
similar bad policies elsewhere in his empire he lost his crown and his life.

