
How the 'Kung Fu Fighting' Melody Came to Represent Asia - user_235711
http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2014/08/28/338622840/how-the-kung-fu-fighting-melody-came-to-represent-asia
======
chromaton
This tune has its own Wikipedia page
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oriental_riff](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oriental_riff)
. This site has the definitive in depth exploration of the Oriental Riff:
[http://chinoiserie.atspace.com/index.html](http://chinoiserie.atspace.com/index.html)
.

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dnautics
Similarly, there's nothing turkish about "Rondo alla Turca" by Mozart, as
illustrated hilariously by Igudesman and Joo:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNtYYuWILNE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNtYYuWILNE)

~~~
acheron
It's more complicated than that. Mozart was following a "Turkish"/"Janissary"
style of music popular in Europe at the time. Indeed the style was pretty much
unrelated to actual music from Turkey, but there's a history of how it
developed that started with Turkish Janissary bands. (More obviously in
orchestral "Turkish" music than in Mozart's piano sonata, where compositions
used exotic instruments like bass drums.)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_music_%28style%29](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_music_%28style%29)

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teddyh
For a piece of music with a similar association, see _The Streets of Cairo, or
the Poor Little Country Maid_ ¹ which for many have come to symbolize ancient
Egypt¹.

1)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Streets_of_Cairo,_or_the_P...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Streets_of_Cairo,_or_the_Poor_Little_Country_Maid)

~~~
colanderman
Don't forget also the "circus" song:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrance_of_the_Gladiators](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrance_of_the_Gladiators)

the "camping" song:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dueling_Banjos](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dueling_Banjos)

the "end of the world" song: "O Fortuna" from
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmina_Burana_(Orff)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmina_Burana_\(Orff\))

the "nautical" song:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sailor's_Hornpipe](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sailor's_Hornpipe)

the "Italian" song:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarantella_Napoletana](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarantella_Napoletana)

the "morning" song: "Ranz des Vaches" from
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tell_Overture](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tell_Overture)

Just the first couple seconds of any of those songs are universally
recognizable and commonly used to set scenes.

I wonder, is there a stereotypical "American" riff used in Chinese media? The
beginning of "Yankee Doodle" or something?

~~~
acheron
[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StandardSnippet](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StandardSnippet)
has a long list.

~~~
cstuder
Please refrain from linking to TV Tropes during work hours, thank you.

~~~
willthames
On an international site (it's currently 18:30 on Friday evening where I am,
for example), populated by people who might not necessarily do 9-5 Mon-Fri, I
don't think there's any such thing as non-work-hours

If you mean 'please don't link to TV Tropes', say so.

~~~
thisjepisje
I think it was a joke.

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chillingeffect
mfw "the pentatonic scale." Pentatonic is a _form_ of scales. There are
innumerable pentatonic scales, although practically, it's bounded by about
50!/45!. [0] And in everyday 12-tone chromatic use, there are at least 5
different versions [1]. Even in Asian scales, there are numerous pentatonic
scales in use.

[0] presuming a pitch resolution of 2%.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVbGYvHd0qo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVbGYvHd0qo)

Blues music, for example, uses pentatonic scales, yet blues music does not
sound like Thai music.

Now that technical matter has been cleared, I find it hilarious and
symptomatic that researchers didn't look into any CHINESE MUSIC to see if
there were any sounds that might have influenced Western composers. For
example, just listening to music played on a Gu Chin [ 2 ] reveals a number of
similar intervals (such as single step motion and parallel fourths) and stark
tonality that could easily be recognized in attempts by Western composers to
imitate and integrate Chinese music.

That article was less of a "how it happened" and more a "that it happened."
The seething, suspicious racial tension underneath was distracting and
needless. Everyone should ignore it (and probably the rest of NPR) and simply
enjoy Chinese music for what it is: interesting and beautiful. sigh.

[ 2 ] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guqin](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guqin)

~~~
eeaamon
you know more and have suggested more jumping-off points for further research
than anyone else in this thread - so of course your comment is near the
bottom. this site sometimes, sigh.

~~~
rspeer
The comment is smug, unhelpful, and very misleading about the pentatonic
scale.

Okay, you could call any five notes a pentatonic scale, but don't let that
distract you from _the_ pentatonic scale, the set of five notes that appears
in many cultures for solid music theoretical reasons.

The linked video about blues is using the _same scale_ , just with the notes
in a different order. Different modes are not different scales. D F G A C is
the same scale as C D F G A. We should be interested in the fact that blues
and Thai music use the same intervals, not dismissive.

The comment also continues to ramble through several kinda-music-theory-esque
statements whose aim is not to inform, but just to make the author appear
smart.

Yep. This site sometimes.

~~~
chillingeffect
> the fact that blues and Thai music use the same intervals

Blues and Thai music do not use the same intervals. Blues is hemitonic, Thai
music is anhemitonic.

".And the Thai musical scale is indeed different -- for the intervals between
all notes are exactly the same. This means that almost all the notes are
slightly different in pitch from those on the western scale. Only the interval
between a note and its octave, eight notes higher up the scale, is the same as
in the west." [0]

[0]
[http://www.thaiwaysmagazine.com/thai_article/2605_traditiona...](http://www.thaiwaysmagazine.com/thai_article/2605_traditional_thai_music/traditional_thai_music.html)

> D F G A C is the same scale as C D F G A

D F G A C is the D Minor Pentatonic scale [1]

C D F G A is the C Blues Major Pentatonic scale, aka Chinese Ritusen scale [1]

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentatonic_scale](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentatonic_scale)

> Yep. This site sometimes.

The problem with this site is that people don't accept information unless it's
accompanied with a major dose of ass-kissing. "So, pretty please with sugar on
top, clean the fucking car."

> > kinda-music-theory-esque statements > solid music theoretical reasons

Ok, you've done what you've accused me of doing. Care to back your statement
up?

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robbiet480
This is super weird, but I just saw the clip of this from Scrubs, this
morning. Interesting to get the back story in such a short time span.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbXbBoRKLVU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbXbBoRKLVU)

~~~
autokad
not sure why this was downvoted, but upvoted it into the black.

~~~
akamaka
I'm not usually interested in reading idle musings about what the commenter
was doing today, and I tend to downvote those.

I feel like HN users increasingly treat the comments as a place to just spit
out whatever is on their mind. That's great in a regular conversation, but I
don't want the comments section to turn into a place for conversations. I'd
rather see fewer, more informative comments.

~~~
autokad
its not off topic nor offensive. people trying to force other people what to
say and how to express themselves to suit what they want is exactly the
problem we have today.

however, it would make sense to give people an option to choose what type of
comment they are leaving (muse, additional context, rant, etc) and allow users
to filter which ones they see.

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vacri
It seems to me that how it's played is almost as important as the melody
itself. Playing it just now on a clean guitar and a piano, it's not all that
evocative of China. Yes, maybe a little bit, but it does sound 'wrong'.
Curious.

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johan_larson
OK, so it's not a Chinese tune. What would be a suitable replacement? Ideally
something authentically Chinese, broadly recognizable, and somehow
representative of Chinese music.

~~~
PetitPrince
What about looking at what Carl Sagan et al. put in the Golden Record on
Voyager 1 [1] ?

They put a beautiful piece of zither [2].

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contents_of_the_Voyager_Golden...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contents_of_the_Voyager_Golden_Record)
[2]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lReQHyOYgU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lReQHyOYgU)

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morley
Carl Douglas and Biddu are ostensibly both alive; has anyone asked them how
they came upon the riff?

~~~
bmm6o
The riff predates the song. According to the NPR piece it's been in use to
signify oriental culture since at least 1930.

------
rsl7
I heard a little of the backstory on this riff on John Hodgeman's judge
podcast. good stuff.

