
Stanford Grad Sues Snapchat Claiming They Stole His ‘Million Dollar Idea’ - met3
http://betabeat.com/2013/02/fellow-stanford-grad-files-lawsuit-claiming-snapchat-stole-his-idea/
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ry0ohki
I thought this was going to be a lame "I had that idea and told it to them at
a bar" kind of thing. But it seems like it was more then just his idea, and he
was involved in the initial version of the app. (The ghost icon makes so much
more sense now too).

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gojomo
Idea guys: get your partnerships in writing, at least emails, so you're not
relying on photos and verbal agreements for your case.

Implementors: beware 'idea guys' with inflated senses of their own value, and
who may not have the skills/staying-power for all the detail and drudge work
ahead.

Unless Brown is a total fraudster, I'd guess there was some legitimate
contribution but then early falling-out. (The complaint identifies a
contentious phone call in mid-August 2011 as the turning point.)

Assignment agreements and founder-vesting schedules exist for these kinds of
cases... but given the speed and informality of today's ventures, can arrive
too late to save teams from ugly court disputes.

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accountoftheday
With regards to founder vesting, it is worth pointing out that if the fallout
happens before the one-year cliff he gets nothing (if the usual terms apply).

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gojomo
Indeed. I don't particularly like that common cliff, and think starting
monthly vesting right away for those present (and initially equal) at the
'true founding' would be better.

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rdouble
These situations seem tough. I have a handful of artist friends who constantly
give me great app ideas. They can do the logo and icon and other art, but it's
going to be me doing 90% of the work. How does one include the original
concept creator fairly?

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columbo
By giving them 10%.

If (to your description) you consider the idea/logo 10% of the work then
that's what it is worth.

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accountoftheday
10% may seem fair when the company is small but it _will_ cause trouble later.
What if the company becomes Facebook? Will future hires be angry that a short-
time contributor gets 50x their equity upside? Will investors not balk at
paying $500k for 10%, when someone else gets 10% common for having done a
logo?

Imho, the correct way to compensate not-really-founders is with a convertible
note for the market value of their services times an appropriate risk
multiple, or, if you can afford it, cash. (I have actually done this.)

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columbo
Yeah I agree, it really depends on if you are talking about single instance
work (just a logo) or for prolonged support (permanent unpaid).

If I was asking someone to do logo and design work for free (and just that)
I'd offer something like 10% of net income with a end of life maximum at
$35,000. That would allow them to potentially receive much more cash than the
time they invested. It also establishes an upper bound to prevent someone for
getting 1% of a billion dollar company because they wrote some html a few
decades ago.

It's a risk-reward on both sides. Companies die off all the time. The vast
majority of people that do work 'for a percentage' are going to get nothing.

With all that said, cash is always easier

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parfe
"I've got this million dollar idea. I need you do all the work but we can
split the profit!"

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HNaTTY
"I don't know how to code. Lets hire a guy. You can be CMO and I'll be CEO.
We'll be rich!"

~~~
janson0
This is probably the wisest parsing of the correct situation. If you want to
work with your friend or another person and all they have is an idea, then
include them and help them learn new things along the way.

It seems to me the skill-set you start with at the beginning of a startup will
be significantly smaller and narrower than what you have at the end of a
startup.

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DarrenMills
It's such a simple concept though: remove the user's ability to determine how
long they have file access for. You could apply that frame to any media; in
this case the hot topic is photo sharing. I'm sure tons of people are already
trying to make a 'Snapchat with video'.

You could do it with audio too. You could do it with GPS coords. You could do
it with any data feed. Photo sharing is just huge right now.

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logn
If you think you're the type of person who might one day sue your business
partners for being jerks, then maybe you should get more than a verbal
contract about your role in the venture. The brief doesn't include any written
evidence of any sort about their agreements and explains that the entirety of
their contract was verbal.

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Gobitron
IANAL but should that invalidate his claim entirely? An agreement is an
agreement right? It might be he said/he said, but presumably he can show some
evidence that he was involved as an operator. And if that's the case, he may
be entitled to something and I wouldn't consider it total BS if that happened.

This strikes me as different than what happened with Facebook.

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will_brown
>An agreement is an agreement right?

I think what your really getting at is a verbal agreement is still
enforceable. As is always the case in law the answer is: "maybe."

In order to be enforceable certain agreements/contracts MUST be in writing to
be enforceable. It is a contract principle known as "Statute of Frauds", but
despite the name has absolutely nothing to do with fraud. Some examples
include contracts for the sale of real estate, contracts that will take more
than a year to perform, and I think marriage agreements.

Although you are most likely correct, the verbal agreement might be
enforceable here, but it is certain the Defendant's attorneys will argue the
Statute of Frauds applies; therefore, since the agreement is not in writing it
is unenforceable. To speculate on how a Judge would rule on this preliminary
matter would be inappropriate without benefit of all the evidence obtained
through discovery.

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dfxm12
For Statute of Frauds to matter in this case, it will have to be proven that
the terms of the contract must have taken more than one year, but not an
indefinitely long time to perform. Otherwise, any type of verbal contract
should cover this, whether that be oral or written or anything else.

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will_brown
>Although you are most likely correct, the verbal agreement might be
enforceable here,

>but it is certain the Defendant's attorneys will argue the Statute of Frauds
applies; therefore, since the agreement is not in writing it is unenforceable.

>To speculate on how a Judge would rule on this preliminary matter would be
inappropriate without benefit of all the evidence obtained through discovery.

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hobbyist
These guys always forget "Its never a Million Dollar Idea, its a Million
Dollar Execution"

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travisp
While I agree with your statement about execution, it sounds like he was
involved with execution as well. According to the lawsuit, they agreed to
create a joint venture, giving him a third of the company and then they lived
and worked together until after launch. He also claims to have designed the
logo, did much of the social media, and created the TOS, Privacy Policy, and
FAQ, drafted and filed the patent application -- this isn't about ideas vs
execution. I don't know what the other side of the story is, but this is a
really good example of why nobody should ever rely on verbal agreements for
things like this.

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bdc
In ten seconds, the photographic proof will disappear, rendering the lawsuit
groundless.

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seivan
I call bull. The guy didn't build it. And that's all that counts. Mr. Murphy
is the one who built it, and apparently he was comfortable with one of them.

"helped with the UI. " hahaha. Did he code it?

