
DataHand - hdivider
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DataHand
======
Judson
I currently own a pair of DataHands I found on eBay. They are pretty unique
items, and start quite a few conversations, but I don't find them very
practical -- probably because I don't experience extreme RSI pain that
necessitates their use.

They are quite large. For instance, I could not bring them to a coffee shop
(for more reasons than this) because the smallish tables wouldn't be able to
accommodate my 15" mbp + the DataHands.

The build quality feel a bit lacking. These guys don't have the build quality
of, say, an iPhone -- and for a $1,500 keyboard (retail), I would have
expected a bit more.

Its a bit strange to move some of the lesser used fingers in certain
directions without hitting other keys. I'm sure this could be fixed with a
little practice, but moving my ring finger without moving my pinky and hitting
another key was/is tough.

Overall, they are unique and interesting to have on a desk and pretend I use
them. But if unless you have serious RSI and these are your last resort, I
would probably recommend another ergonomic keyboard.

~~~
avar
I have a pair in mint condition in a box somewhere. I found the holes for the
fingers to be way too big and after trying it a bit never got used to it.

I wonder what it would be worth these days if I bothered to put it up on eBay,
I bought it used for $280 at the time.

~~~
freiheit
I sold a pair in good condition for ~$1500 (~$1300 in pocket) on eBay a couple
weeks ago.

------
wesley
You may be interested in knowing that someone is working on rebuilding the
DataHand, you can follow his progress here:

[http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41422.0](http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41422.0)

Another interesting project to follow is the Nexus keyboard :
[http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44940.0](http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44940.0)

~~~
TacticalCoder
Most of these keyboards based on the ErgoDox (and the ErgoDox itself) make the
mistake of considering that the thumb is a finger positioned like the others.
And the keys you're supposed to hit with your thumbs are just placed in a
crazy way (totally non-ergonomic IMHO).

To me one of the rare person who really "got it" is "Jesse" (he's both here,
on GeekHack and on Deskthority) with its "butterfly" keyboard.

That's one of the only split (and ergonomic) keyboard that takes into account
the fact that the thumb's opposition-apposition makes it unlike any other
finger.

Look at his "butterfy" keyboard here and how smartly the keys you're to hit
with the thumbs are positionned:

[http://blog.fsck.com/2013/12/better-and-better-
keyboards.htm...](http://blog.fsck.com/2013/12/better-and-better-
keyboards.html)

~~~
mharrison
As an owner of the ergodox, I appreciate the efforts and iteration here.
Sadly, the ergonomics of most non-split keyboards are hardcoded to a magic
number. With the ergodox, I currently have the halves about a foot apart and
really enjoy typing that way. (I have also "tented" the halves in the past).

I agree that the ergodox is not perfect and the thumb clusters could be
improved, I'm just not sold that the butterfly does that.

Here's an old post with my initial impressions of the ergodox [0]. I need to
add an update, but I have since purchased a second unit for home and have been
typing with the "Norman" layout since day 2.

(BTW, massdrop currently has the keyboard up for sale, but you need to act
fast as there is only a day or so left)

0 - [http://hairysun.com/blog/2013/04/02/oh-ergonomic-
keyboard/](http://hairysun.com/blog/2013/04/02/oh-ergonomic-keyboard/)

------
cromulent
Years ago (early 80's) one of my Dad's buddies was a dealer for the
Writehander.

[http://research.microsoft.com/en-
us/um/people/bibuxton/buxto...](http://research.microsoft.com/en-
us/um/people/bibuxton/buxtoncollection/detail.aspx?id=6)

It never really took off, but at the time, it was super cool.

Edit: some more links on chord keyboards:

[http://www.billbuxton.com/input06.ChordKeyboards.pdf](http://www.billbuxton.com/input06.ChordKeyboards.pdf)

[http://www.dougengelbart.org/pubs/augment-14851.html](http://www.dougengelbart.org/pubs/augment-14851.html)

~~~
msutherl
I've been looking for this link for weeks: [http://research.microsoft.com/en-
us/um/people/bibuxton/buxto...](http://research.microsoft.com/en-
us/um/people/bibuxton/buxtoncollection/default.aspx)! Thank you!

------
muxxa
My experiences with RSI leave me sceptical on these types of approaches which
focus solely on minimizing hand and arm movement. E.g. hunt and peck typists
are less prone to small tissue RSI because they make large movements using
their stronger forearm muscles.

The injuries I experienced were due to holding tension in the shoulders and
back (due to working while tired, altered posture while caffeinated and the
self-directed stress of trying to get some work done).

Technical fixes like this might provide relief for a while but I think they
miss the core problem, which imo boils down to your body not being relaxed
while you work.

~~~
AJ007
I went through a period where I spent thousands of dollars on ergonomic
keyboards and chairs.

I bought the Datahand and used it for a good two weeks. The mouse cursor can
only be controlled up/down , left/right with it. With too much graphical work,
that cut my use of it short.

Several years later I started a strength training program, and within a few
weeks my RSI vanished. At its worst, my arms would be numb when I woke up, I
had sustained numbness in one hand for weeks, at one point I couldn't
physically hold a mouse more than 15 minutes. It took a quick Google Image
search to know I would never do a carpel tunnel release surgery.

After adding up the workout time spent, it was about 4 hours of strength
training (no weights or gripping) that ended 5 years of debilitating wrist
pain. From what I've been able to tell many years later, it was all from doing
pushups -- which likely has everything to do with shoulder and back muscles.
That ironic thing was, because the pain was in my wrists and arms, I thought
doing pushups would cause too much pain so I had stopped doing them.

Now instead of ergonomics I think of how to be more active while and between
working.

~~~
muraiki
For two more anecdotes, my coworker and I have had similar experiences. My RSI
isn't entirely gone, but I had to take a long break from pushups because of an
injury. I'm able to start doing them again so I should get to it, because I
had a significant reduction in symptoms after only a week or so of pushups.

This site might seem a little spammy, but its methodology for figuring out how
many to start with and at what rate to increase the # of pushups was a big
help for me. I started at about 3 pushups and even after a long break due to
the injury I can do 15, which is saying a lot since I am completely out of
shape!

~~~
jroes
Think you forgot to include the URL?

~~~
muraiki
Wow, sorry! [http://hundredpushups.com](http://hundredpushups.com)

------
3rd3
There is an open source stenography project called "Plover". The idea of
stenotype is instead of typing individual letters one combines keys to form
sillables (or commands), what makes typing blazingly fast (240 WPM in the
video below) and is overall a less cramped movement, because after each
sillable you can relax instead of keeping muscles tensed for each letter.

[http://plover.stenoknight.com/](http://plover.stenoknight.com/)

Talk: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpv-Qb-
dB6g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpv-Qb-dB6g)

Demo:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAyIMnTqGB8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAyIMnTqGB8)

~~~
NickM
Has anyone had any experience trying to use this for programming? My feeling
when I looked into it a while back was that it's heavily optimized for typing
English, and that it might not be suitable for programming without some heavy
modifications.

Even if it's not good for coding then I might be tempted to learn it anyway,
but now speech-to-text is starting to get good enough that I'm questioning
whether it'd be worth the time investment (at least for me personally).

~~~
0xdeadbeefbabe
I hope to use it for programming in forth sometime soon. Forth is ideal for
steno because it is word based and unstructured.

------
1qaz2wsx3edc
IIRC, DataHands are super expensive and have a high learning curve. Anyone
looking to upgrade should consider a Kenesis, wait for Mark 13:
[http://launch.keyboard.io/](http://launch.keyboard.io/)

That said, I toggle between chiclets and a kenesis.

~~~
swah
There is also the Ergodox... but I think its expensive and you have to do it
yourself. But boy it is beautiful.

~~~
aaronem
I thought about an Ergodox; I don't mind soldering, but I decided against it
anyway, because to me it looks like it's a bit short on the "ergo" \-- it will
help with the need to rotate the wrists outward, but they still have to rotate
out of the neutral position in order to address keys on a flat keyboard, which
makes the Ergodox look to me rather like a Kinesis Advantage without the
Advantage.

~~~
technomancy
It's not too difficult to add tenting to the Ergodox; just replace some of the
screws with a longer variety so they act as legs. Also some of the Kinesis
Freestyle tenting accessories have been adapted to the Ergodox to address
these issues. It's a really hackable design, which is the main draw.

~~~
korethr
I would add that the flatness is only a problem with the kits sold through
Massdrop, which use the laser-cut acrylic case. The original source files for
the Ergodox include a model for a case which can be made on a 3D printer. That
model does include some minor tenting.

------
khafra
Definitely a fascinating piece of data entry history. A friend of mine got one
in the late 90s; to avert an onset of repetitive stress injury. He was blazing
fast with it; I never saw him do a wpm test, but he could put a line of text
on the screen in a couple of seconds.

------
emehrkay
Did you guys see the movie Ender's Game? He was typing on a touch screen by
doing little swipes with his fingers. I would imagine that it functioned like
this DataHand one, but virtually.

Found something on GitHub: [https://github.com/henrahmagix/enders-
keyboard](https://github.com/henrahmagix/enders-keyboard)

------
spellboots
I had one of these, it wasn't very hard to learn - the movements were very
similar to querty. I started getting RSI and this helped a lot.

Now I learnt a bit about typing skills and ergonomics I am fine on a regular
keyboard, but I would have kept on with the datahands if not for its massive
lack of practicality.

Basic typing was great, but using it on a mac for programming was not so great
- all the modifier keys were wrong, and the PS2-USB connection was flaky. Not
to mention carrying it around with a laptop was basically impossible without a
dedicated case...

------
debt
I feel like there's been little adoption of innovative changes to HCI in terms
of software development. Most engineers I know still use the same old
keyboard/mouse/monitor. I am curious if there will ever be a time when
software development resembles something like football.

~~~
aaronem
How do you imagine software development resembling something like football?
I'm honestly curious; that statement gives the impression of considerable
thought having gone into it, but I can't for the life of me imagine what sort.

------
lelf
See also
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorded_keyboard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorded_keyboard)

~~~
leoc
Speaking of which, there's finally going to be a Bluetooth-enabled version of
the Twiddler, the Twiddler3:
[https://plus.google.com/105804767481830727070/posts/j4M9fmRr...](https://plus.google.com/105804767481830727070/posts/j4M9fmRr8dY)
. The best smartphone/tablet keyboard yet?

~~~
mietek
Oh wow. You've just made my week. Thanks!

~~~
leoc
Spread the word! :)

------
jds375
I can see how it might be useful... but the learning curve has to be immense.
There's video of it here:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rzFqEqzhmA](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rzFqEqzhmA)

------
cowmix
DataHand was customer of mine way back in the day here in Phoenix. They
actually gave someone on my staff an early version of the product and after a
VERY steep learning curve he was able to increase his wpm from 90 -> 110.

------
11001
I kind of wish for something opposite, not a tool to minimize my physical
movements, but to actually make me move more. I'm not talking about a computer
on a treadmill. But, for example, if, say I'm moving something from one
virtual place to another (copying files, etc), I would like to be moving
something physically as well, I feel like that would get me more connected to
what I am doing. The same reason it is much more pleasant and less
distracting(to me anyway) to read a physical book that I'm holding, rather
than something on the screen.

I have no concrete suggestions though.

~~~
khafra
Something like the leapmotion?
[https://www.leapmotion.com/](https://www.leapmotion.com/)

~~~
melling
From the reviews that I've read, it isn't quite ready. Has anyone integrated
one into their development process?

~~~
technomancy
The Leapmotion is designed for analog input. Typical software development is
nearly all digital input: hitting keys and such, which is something that you
have to sacrifice in a system like the Leapmotion or a multitouch surface. I
could see it being a lot more useful for games or graphic design.

------
userbinator
It looks like to use this input device you would have to do quite some
wiggling of individual fingers sideways, without moving the other fingers on
your hand, and that motion just feels terribly awkward to me - e.g. on a
normal keyboard, if I move my right index finger to the left to press H, the
other 3 move left as well; I can't just move one finger left/right.

------
crimsonalucard
Unfortunately, I think slower then I type.

