
Stealing from Self-Checkouts - prostoalex
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/03/stealing-from-self-checkout/550940/?utm_source=atlfb&amp;single_page=true
======
wwweston
>There is NO MORAL ISSUE with stealing from a store that forces you to use
self checkout, period. THEY ARE CHARGING YOU TO WORK AT THEIR STORE.”

So, here's the link to that particular reddit gem, in case you want to read it
in all its glory:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/Shoplifting/comments/56saoh/selfche...](https://www.reddit.com/r/Shoplifting/comments/56saoh/selfcheckout_stealing/daqte1q/)

I'm... _almost_ sympathetic to an argument that amounts to the
frustrating/dark side of automated assistance, which is probably something the
audience here would do well to consider. I get frustrated with tech too and
sometimes want a way around it.

But I wish that discussion was still active so I could reply... WTF, man.
They're offering an automated way to complete a purchase, and it's not like
you got paid to interact with the checkout cashier before. But let's say you
see it that way. Let's assume that cashier was costing the store $25/hr
(maybe), so the 6 minutes (maybe) they worked on _your_ purchase might be
worth up to $2.50. Are you scrupulously making sure you only evened the
score/took the store to the tune of ten quarters?

Unless you can't for some reason, pay for your groceries, don't inflate the
prices everyone else has to pay to offset the cost of "external shrinkage,"
and keep society in the crucial resource of trust.

~~~
rhaps0dy
To be honest, I prefer to use an automated checkout. With a cashier, I'm
always stressed because I have to put the items in the bag as quickly as they
scan them, to avoid delaying the queue and wasting the cashier's time. In the
automated checkout however, I can take my time to organise the bag and pay
when I'm ready.

~~~
5555624
It depends on the automated checkout. In the Washington, D.C. area (U.S.),
Giant Foods installed automated checkouts that are the same "length" as a
regular checkout. You scan your items, put them on the belt, and they go to
the bagging area at the end -- you can't bag them as you scan them. Once
you're done, you're rushing to bag items as someone else decides to start
scanning their items and send them down the belt, mingling with your items.

At Harris Teeter, on the other hand, you scanned an item and put it in the
bag. You could load the bag as you wished.

------
ggm
I'm probably not the target audience. I queue up to use a checker. I like
talking to them as they squeeze my Charmian and if they get paid to swipe
things past barcodes while studying before university class we're all winning.
Self checkout is slower for more than two or three things and th conversation
is bad. FELLOW ROBOT GOOD DAY HOW IS YOUR IBN PRODUCT CODE LASER MINE IS RED

~~~
CM30
I'm much the same way, though I think another reason behind preferring the
human checkers is the fact most self checkout machines are horrible in terms
of usability. Oh no, you removed an item from the bagging area! Time to shut
down the whole machine until some staff member comes over and unlocks it
again!

Why? Who in their right mind thought this was a good design decision? It
doesn't stop theft, it doesn't stop scams, it doesn't do anything other than
infuriate legitimate customers at seemingly random.

Or in another example, trying to find the item you're buying if it's not a
standard product with a bar code on the bottom. If the shop has a bakery or
meat counter or whatever, that usually means lots of scrolling through pages
trying to find the item you bought while hoping you can remember what the name
of the damn thing was on the shelf in case two items look almost identical. Or
in case you can't make out certain details on a tiny icon properly.

A human cashier can usually sort this stuff out much quicker than a customer
using a self service machine could.

------
js2
> When Voucher Codes Pro, a company that offers coupons to internet shoppers,
> surveyed 2,634 people, nearly 20 percent admitted to having stolen at the
> self-checkout in the past.

I weep for humanity. But there's no way the grocery stores would tolerate that
level of theft. There's obviously strong correlation between people who steal
and people who respond to Voucher Codes Pro surveys.

~~~
saurik
FWIW, the local supermarket near where I live decided to get rid of their self
checkout, and I heard it was due to theft (and I do not live in a neighborhood
where I would have thought theft would be an extra-serious problem...).

~~~
jstarfish
Don't know about your specific situation, but in my past experience and
positions, even if your store is in a "nice" area it isn't insulated from
coordinated mobile shoplifting rings operating from the "not-so-nice" areas.

I got out when self-checkout was just becoming a thing but even in those early
days, the lack of accountability was already being taken advantage of by means
of all the very scams listed in the article.

------
jgh
I guess I'm type B for boring because I pay for everything at the self
checkout.

~~~
nickstinemates
Honestly the thought never even crossed my mind

------
DoreenMichele
Dupe:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16292254](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16292254)

------
racer-v
There's one thing that prevents me from using self-checkouts: they have an
annoying synthesized voice that says things like "place your items in the bag"
or "please insert cash". I'm opposed on principle to voice interfaces that
can't be muted, and machines telling me what to do. So far my best experience
was with a checkout that let me change the language, so at least I couldn't
understand it.

~~~
wlesieutre
_Unexpected item in the bagging area_

------
rdtsc
Someone I know was working at a grocery story when they were introducing self-
checkout. The store did an internal test and they asked employees to try to
steal using self-checkout. It was incredibly easy to do. However they went
with it anyway. The idea was that people were honest and overall it was still
an improvement.

However one thing that's different now compared to 15 years ago is there are
online communities where those who are dishonest can share tips and tricks.
Someone already mentioned but this exists:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/Shoplifting/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Shoplifting/)

\---

If you're here to preach morals, enjoy your very brief stay. If you're here to
learn and share, please help contribute to our wonderful community ...

\---

~~~
DoofusOfDeath
> If you're here to preach morals, enjoy your very brief stay. If you're here
> to learn and share, please help contribute to our wonderful community ...

I'm not sure, but it seems like you're implying that preaching morals cannot
be a contribution to your community.

If so, I think it raises some interesting issues about community and morality.

~~~
rdtsc
Exactly it just seems like a strange sub doesn't it. Even has nice mascot -
the cute Reddit alien with a mask on.

Are there subs for other crimes like medical malpractice, robbery? What about
more serious ones say rape or contract killing. I am sure assassins would
"benefit" from sharing tips and tricks of the trade.

At first I thought, oh maybe these are people who are hungry and have to feed
their family so they are stealing an extra bag of rice or potatoes. But I see
them bragging about electronics, media, expensive clothes. The one that caught
my attention is bragging about stealing thousands a month from Whole Foods.
They justify it by saying Whole Foods treats their employees badly.

------
jonnycomputer
A trustless society is no society at all.

------
crankylinuxuser
So, given that the article didn't cite __which __subreddit, which reddit group
made those comments?

~~~
syncsynchalt
Probably /r/shoplifting or /r/stealing .

~~~
crankylinuxuser
Yeah, I finally found the post by searching the body text.

Just crazy on /r/shoplifting - people bragging all the time about their
"scores". They don't know that their profiles are pretty readily accessible
via snoopsnoo.com , Im guessing.

------
AlexCoventry
You'd have to be an idiot to do that in this day and age of ubiquitous video
surveillance and smart machine visual perception.

~~~
mlevental
you drastically overestimate the value of catching a couple of people stealing
a couple of things vs implementing the system that catches them using video
surveillance and cv

~~~
AlexCoventry
Statute of limitations for larceny in Massachusetts is 6 years. Would you
really want to bet that it'll still be that hard in 2024?

~~~
extra88
Right, like CVS is going to keep all their surveillance video for over six
years.

~~~
Broken_Hippo
That wouldn't suprise me, considering the amount of other information they
legally must keep on hand for some years on-site and then years in mass
storage. (former CVS employee). Some of a pharmacy's surveillance would be
kept just for instances of robbery and prescription fraud. The last one isn't
always known upfront. There is also the issue of employee theft.

------
lerie82
I guess, surprisingly, I'm the good guy for actually paying for my things.

Wonder how many small businesses go under because of this kind of theft.

