
We don’t trust drinking fountains anymore, and that’s bad for our health - sergeant3
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/we-dont-trust-drinking-fountains-anymore-and-thats-bad-for-our-health/2015/07/02/24eca9bc-15f0-11e5-9ddc-e3353542100c_story.html
======
secabeen
I grew up in LA, where water is scarce, and valued. Water fountains are
around, but they have valves, which break, stick, or otherwise cause problems.
When I lived in Chicago, I was shocked to see that their water fountains have
no valves: They run full flow 24x7. Given the weather (frozen pipes) and the
water resources available to Chicago (Lake Michigan), it makes sense for them
to do it this way, but I had a lot of dissonance when I first saw it.

~~~
pavel_lishin
Ditto rome. It just comes out of the wall in places.

~~~
brusch64
And (last time I've been) it was excellent water. Strange seeing other
tourists paying for the expensive mineral water next to a running tap. (they
probably didn't know that the water is fine or didn't care).

~~~
meej
When I was a tourist in Rome I didn't know what they were for at first. After
some research I became an enthusiastic Nasoni user. I really like the trick
where you plug the end and the water comes out of a hole on top of the spout
like a drinking fountain.

~~~
brusch64
had a good guidebook with me when I was in Rome. It said that the water is
excellent and showed the trick with the hole - so I knew it and used it.

Mostly I filled a pretty small bottle with water and carried that around.
Didn't had to carry much, because I could refill it on nearly every corner.

------
davidw
I've always found it kind of funny that in "capitalist" US, there is free
water all over the place. It's one of my favorite things to drink good, clean
water for free in Portland after getting off a long flight from Europe. In
"socialist" Europe, you're pretty much stuck with expensive bottled water in
places like airports, unless you have a cup or something and don't mind
drinking from the bathroom faucets.

OTOH, one of the great things about cycling in Italy is that every little
teeny tiny town has a water fountain, usually near the church or town square.
Even on the hottest days of summer, you could probably get by with one small
water bottle if you're willing to stop regularly.

~~~
dogma1138
There are water fountains in every airport in Europe (and pretty much the
world, it's regulatory) they are usually located in or near the restrooms.

Not to mention that pretty much every restaurant will give you tap water for
free.

~~~
scintill76
I was flatly told "no" when I asked for tap water at a restaurant in Italy.
The waitress seemed a little disgusted I would ask, too. I've heard some
peoples have an aversion to tap water even if it's become safe these days, so
I guess it was that, or maybe some kind of miscommunication.

Maybe she just thought it has a bad taste, but it can't have been bad enough
that I'd prefer paying 2-3 euros for bottled water.

~~~
toyg
_> I was flatly told "no" when I asked for tap water at a restaurant in
Italy._

Modern consumerism at work!

In most of Italy, 30 years ago, asking for a jug of water at a restaurant was
absolutely normal; you would order bottles only if you preferred sparkling, or
if you were acting stupendous.

By the mid-90s, drinking bottled water at home had become normal even in
cities with perfectly working water systems. People worried about hygiene
started requiring bottled water in all circumstances, to be opened in their
presence (god forbid you would actively recycle glass bottles in your
establishment! -- to be fair though, in a country where screwing your fellow
man is considered the smart thing to do, charging bottled-water prices for tap
water was far from uncommon).

Nowadays, it's expected that water should be served in bottles; it's
supposedly more hygienic and it's certainly more profitable for restaurants.

Somebody joked that in Sicily people drink water bottled in the Alps, and in
the Alps they drink water bottled in Sicily. It's all great for the economy,
of course, and terrible for the environment, but hey, _così è la vita_.

~~~
vacri
I had to laugh when a bottle of water here in Australia became more expensive
than the same-sized bottle of carbonated syrup drink.

A barman friend charged a client $X for a round, including a bottle of water.
One of his regulars scrunched up his face in thought, did the calculations,
and said "Did you just charge $6 for a bottle of water?". The reply: "Did you
see her blink?". It's been ridiculously normalised. For the record, my
hometown is supposedly famous for excellent tapwater for drinking.

------
allendoerfer
European capitalism destroying old American traditions and cultures just
sounds wrong to your ears when you are so used to the narrative of McDonald’s
and Hollywood taking over the world.

In Germany I think I saw a dedicated drinking fountain only once. There are of
course fountains, but most of the time there is a sign on them saying "Kein
Trinkwasser" ("no drinking water"). We have exceptionally good tap water and I
think only very few Germans fear to drink it. I notice it every time I brush
my teeth in another country, it just tastes bad. So they got us with another
trick: Germans are just used to sparkling water.

That is a valuable lock-in lesson: Add an unimportant but prominent usage-
detail to your product as long as your customers _need_ it so when an
alternative comes along they are just used to it and too lazy to switch. Works
best when your customers are children.

~~~
pluma
The "no drinking water" signs have to do with health requirements for drinking
water.

Water for firefighting, for example, has to be isolated from drinking water to
prevent any risk of contamination. Due to how it is used, this water may have
to be stored for very long periods of time and provides a breeding ground for
all kinds of things you wouldn't want in your drinking water (e.g.
legionella).

I'm fairly certain most (non-drinking) fountains use something like a semi-
closed loop system where the same water just circulates through the fountain
and fresh water is only used to replace any water lost to evaporation or
spilling. This means the water is easily contaminated and therefore not
suitable for drinking.

In some public restrooms (though this seems very rare), even the tap water is
labelled as not safe for drinking. In these cases the tap water is likely not
sufficiently isolated from the water tank for firefighting and therefore not
safe despite coming from drinking water.

------
brohoolio
The primary reasons I don't drink from water fountains often are there isn't
enough water pressure and it feels like you have to kiss the fountain to get
water or someone spit in the fountain.

Solve those two problems and people will use them like crazy. At U of M the
fountains are everywhere. They even have little Counters saying how many
bottles of water they have saved.

~~~
SilasX
This. Most fountains I find are broken or way underpowered.

~~~
contingencies
Mounting them upside-down might help with the power problem.

Another issue is the run-off, often the base of them is surrounded by muddy
mess, bowls for dogs to drink out of, whatever. Proper drainage and some
awareness of less common use cases would also be important.

------
nosuchthing
Been seeing these water bottle refill stations pop up around:

[http://blog.hughessupply.com/files/2011/11/EZH2O_Single_L_Fi...](http://blog.hughessupply.com/files/2011/11/EZH2O_Single_L_Filterless.jpg)

~~~
rrss1122
I've seen those too. I don't care whether or not they have a filter (my water
bottle does), but I do like that it just makes it way more convenient to top
off the water bottle. Before, I had to tilt the bottle and that would mean I
couldn't fill it all the way.

------
teekert
I always drink tap water here in the Netherlands, in the US where I have been
(Houston, New Orleans, Boston, Long Beach) the water just tastes like it came
from a swimming pool. So much chlorine, I couldn't drink it. In San Fransisco
it was relatively ok though, still a faint chlorine taste but drinkable. I
understand the difficulty of maintaining such a large water distribution net
but I certainly switch to bottled water when I'm in the US.

I do like the fact that you can get free water almost everywhere, there was
often a large can and cups on the bar, free to take. Here a tap water is
sometimes as expensive as a beer (in a bar obviously).

~~~
JupiterMoon
> I do like the fact that you can get free water almost everywhere, there was
> often a large can and cups on the bar, free to take. Here a tap water is
> sometimes as expensive as a beer (in a bar obviously).

Wow in most of Europe this would not be legal. Are you sure your local laws
allow this?

~~~
provemewrong
How can selling water at a commercial establishment be illegal? Bottled water
industry would be out of business, as some of them are known to resell tap
water too. I'm from Europe too, by the way, and don't see the big deal. I'd
say around here it's pretty split - around a half of places will offer free
water, and a half will offer it for money (not for beer prices though).

~~~
nsomaru
Not sure if it's illegal here, but in South Africa restaurants are expected to
serve you tap water if you ask for it. Doing otherwise would be rude, and most
waiters (even at pubs) will clarify if you want 'bottled or tap' and 'with ice
and lemon.'

I have noticed a strange phenomenon in Europe too, please forgive me if I'm
generalising as I'm aware it's a big place, but people there seem like they
won't do something without getting paid.

Example: delivery personnel who would deliver a refrigerator up to your door
(but not further, into the kitchen) and a plumber who refused to even discuss
what the options were for a problem we were having that was not what he had
been called in for.

That doesn't happen here. Instead, the delivery guy usually helps you unpack
the item of delivery, and the plumber will offer his opinion on a job he was
not necessarily called in to fix.

Once again, standard disclaimer, this is anecdata, apologies for the
generalisation.

~~~
tokenizerrr
> That doesn't happen here. Instead, the delivery guy usually helps you unpack
> the item of delivery, and the plumber will offer his opinion on a job he was
> not necessarily called in to fix.

And how much are you expected to tip these people?

~~~
nsomaru
optional. sometimes nothing. sometimes like $2.

------
gingerlime
When I visited Sofia, Bulgaria, it was amazing to see people carry bottles
over to this square where there's natural hot spring water. The water really
tastes great and it was so much fun just being around there. People don't seem
to feel awkward about bringing lots of bottles with them and stocking up on
water.

In Berlin, where I live now, there are fully functioning manual water pumps in
some streets. People don't really use them much, but there's something quite
charming about them too.

------
freditup
Let's start with the assumption (not necessarily true) that one who drinks
from a public water fountain consumes significantly more germs than one who
drinks bottled water. Is this even a bad thing? I would think that this
regular exposure could help strengthen the immune system.

I'm personally uncertain if anything like this is backed by research.

~~~
jobu
When I was elementary school age I saw some older kids at the park taking
turns peeing on a drinking fountain (and laughing). I have used public
drinking fountains since, but only when the need was severe.

There has to be a better option.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Construct outdoor drinking fountains out of materials that naturally resist
bacteria.

~~~
colanderman
Not sure why you were downvoted. This is both a good idea and is actually
done: brass, which is commonly used for outdoor water fixtures, is naturally
antimicrobial (including E. coli) due to its copper content:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimicrobial_properties_of_co...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimicrobial_properties_of_copper#Efficacy_on_brass.2C_bronze.2C_copper-
nickel_alloys)

------
NhanH
When I first came to US, I didn't mind drinking public fountain. But one day,
I walked by one and a dog was drinking from it, licking all over it in the
process. From that day onward, I stopped.

Still, I have to wonder: is that reasonable of me? And otherwise, is it
expected to let your pet sharing the same water source with human?

~~~
ra1n85
Of course it's reasonable of you.

The burden of proof is on the water fountain (or more specifically, the
designers of the water fountain) as to whether drinking from it is safe.

This is not a problem with being overly cautious. This is a problem with an
antiquated design.

~~~
rmxt
What exactly is antiquated about the design of modern water fountains? How
could the designers of the water fountain effectively and reasonably
communicate that the water fountain is safe to drink from, and do so for the
design life of the fixture?

Sure, some water fountains _look_ old...but I imagine that if you live in a
major city, odds are (from a logistical standpoint, unless you live in a new
subdivision) the tap water to your house or apartment flows through pipes that
are older than that water fountain. A dog drinking from the fountain is gross,
but I'm not sure the onus is on the designer to totally prevent people from
acting silly.

~~~
adamiscool
Good design can always find a solution -- off the top of my head, integrating
some kind of sterile recyclable mouthpiece dispenser would assuage most
concerns

~~~
maxerickson
In the case of potable water valves, this is accomplished by preventing
backflow and being made out of a hard smooth material. When you turn on a
drinking fountain, the stream of water flushes any loose dirt and debris, so
as long as you avoid contact with the fountain (the stream should be adjusted
so that this is easy), there isn't going to be significant transfer of
anything.

------
dandanisaur
I think it might be impossible for those of us who have used fountains, but
now don't trust them anymore. I've seen people urinating/vandalizing fountains
in Metro Detroit and would never use them again.

*I think someone mentioned this below too.

------
Tehnix
In Denmark I rarely, if ever, see water fountains. If I saw one, I would never
drink from it. For me, personally, it's a sanitary issue. There also seems to
be studies that link them with pathogens and bacteria, wikipedia links to
some[0].

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_fountain#Cleanliness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_fountain#Cleanliness)

~~~
mturmon
If you chase that link down, you find it is referring to the presence of
pathogens on the handles of toilets, the surfaces of water fountains, and
other moist surfaces like water play tables, in child day care centers. This
is not the same thing as transmission through the stream of water itself.

My take away from that is to be careful of touching such surfaces, but not to
worry about the stream of water.

------
jscheel
Yeah, I stopped drinking at water fountains after I realized that half the
kids I saw drinking from them were practically swallowing the spigot whole.
It's not tap water I'm afraid of, it's the distribution device. It's a
attractive breeding-ground for every form of nasty.

~~~
Someone1234
If you don't touch it with your mouth and run it for a few seconds you'll be
just fine.

Also the human body spends all day killing most common bacteria, mold, and
similar. You don't even know it is happening. If you got sick every time you
came in contact with another person's bodily fluids then you'd be sick almost
daily, you'd certainly never go out to eat again, or ride public transport.

My point is, your fears are entirely unfounded. Water fountains are fine.

~~~
refurb
This is a great point.

It's like the people that open the restroom door with a paper towel. They must
realize that the people who don't was their hands touch all the other
doorknobs as well?

I'd guess the bathroom door is probably the cleanest knob you'd encounter
(since lots of people wash their hands before leaving).

~~~
sliverstorm
Sidenote, when I finish drying my hands I use the towel to open the door.
First, why not. Second, the handle usually has some water on it, and I just
dried my hands.

------
spodek
Besides health, there's pollution.

The opposite of a drinking fountain is The Great Pacific Garbage Patch,
according to Wikipedia: _The Great Pacific garbage patch, also described as
the Pacific trash vortex, is a gyre of increased marine debris particles in
the central North Pacific Ocean located roughly between 135°W to 155°W and
35°N and 42°N. The patch extends over an indeterminate area, with estimates
ranging very widely depending on the degree of plastic concentration used to
define the affected area._

If you wonder where these huge collections of garbage come from, drinking
bottled beverages contributes.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_garbage_patch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_garbage_patch)

------
skriticos2
Tap-water is very much a hit-or-miss here in Germany. In some cities (like
Berlin) it's almost hazardous, while in other cities it's very drinkable. The
tubes the water passes also make a big difference (there are still lot's of
lead tubes lying around in old houses).

We got our-self a home reverse-osmosis filter system that clears water of most
particles and drink very clean water with abandon (~1 ppm non-water
particles). It's really a luxury worth having, especially with kinds. Plus, no
carrying around bottled water.

And no, the lack of minerals in the water did not kill any of us.. that's a
fable. In fact, your body will only absorb minerals from water it if it can't
get it from other food sources that have them in a more optimal chemical
bounding.

~~~
Xylakant
> Tap-water is very much a hit-or-miss here in Germany. In some cities (like
> Berlin) it's almost hazardous, while in other cities it's very drinkable.

I'd like to see a source for that. Tap water in Berlin is perfectly fine and
drinkable. Tap water is actually held to standards that are at least as strict
as bottled water. The only issue that can possibly arise is that you're living
in an old house that still has lead piping, though those are very uncommon
today. If you're in doubt you can have your water tested for 20 EUR, if
there's a pregnant person or an infant in the household it's free:
[http://www.bwb.de/content/language1/html/blei.php](http://www.bwb.de/content/language1/html/blei.php)

------
VLM
How sterile are water reservoirs and lakes? My guess is they're full of
pooping and dying fish, bugs, god knows what. The big city nearby me pump
drinking water out of the same lake they pump treated and untreated sewage
into. The suburb I live in at least uses well water. My point is if the source
of the water is full of living and dead animals and bugs then worrying about
homeless people peeing on the fountain remains gross but is no longer a
serious concern. Pumping that same water into a bottle and charging a large
amount of money for it doesn't make the problem go away either.

------
mironathetin
Here in Germany, water is the best protected good that we have - maybe apart
from beer :o) - and that is as it should be. It usually tastes good and I use
it all the time (stopped buying bottled water long ago).

In a bar or restaurant, tap water has to be free. They don't like that and try
to sell you more expensive stuff, but the law requires free water. Great,
isn't it?

I was indeed shocked by the amount of chlorine that I tasted in Californian
water (I regularly work in Pasadena).

~~~
zapdrive
There is no water fountain at the Munich airport.

~~~
mironathetin
"There is no water fountain at the Munich airport"

True and not necessary. You may go to the restrooms and use the tap there.
Sound a bit weird, but the water is as pure as everywhere else (make sure the
tap is clean) and as the water flows more or less non stop, it is even very
cold.

We usually refill our empty bottles there after security.

------
contingencies
In some parts of China, (frequently older) people routinely spend an hour or
more lugging empty bottles up mountain paths to natural springs in order to
gather spring water for drinking. (The character for a spring is 泉 which is
water 水 beneath a 白 which means something like white/clear/plain but was
allegedly originally a pictograph of an acorn!)

------
davidf18
In Manhattan, almost everyone carries water bottles (CambelBak is common) or
they refill their store bought water bottles which are carried in bottle
pockets on their knapsacks.

Columbia University (at least some schools there) give out water bottles and
have special water fountains which have an overhead spout that fills water
bottles and has a LED counter.

------
deathhand
I don't trust municipal water sources because of the endocrine disruptors.
[http://www.hhs.gov/asl/testify/2010/02/t20100225a.html](http://www.hhs.gov/asl/testify/2010/02/t20100225a.html)

~~~
jaggederest
What, do you think a plastic bottle isn't leaching things into the water?

~~~
deathhand
No- As long as the bottles arent subjected to heat or direct sunlight:
[http://web.archive.org/web/20050830052647/http://www.jhsph.e...](http://web.archive.org/web/20050830052647/http://www.jhsph.edu/PublicHealthNews/articles/Halden_dioxins.html)

------
usr12345
I think this type of behavior might have a lot to do with it:

[http://gothamist.com/2014/06/12/water_fountain_or_dog_bidet....](http://gothamist.com/2014/06/12/water_fountain_or_dog_bidet.php)

------
leni536
I'm currently staying at Switzerland and they have water fountains like at
every corner (with a little bit of exaggeration). I absolutely love it.

------
sosuke
I drink more water than ever after buying bottles. I especially bring bottled
water to places where they only have well water.

------
Sleaker
hmmm article sites Causation but really means correlation.

"The disappearance of water fountains has hurt public health. Centers for
Disease Control researcher Stephen Onufrak has found that the less young
people trust water fountains, the more sugary beverages they drink"

\- That doesn't sound like an actual study to me, just a hunch....

~~~
Nadya
Closest research I could find by Stephen:

[http://www.researchgate.net/publication/259824170_Perception...](http://www.researchgate.net/publication/259824170_Perceptions_of_tap_water_and_school_water_fountains_and_association_with_intake_of_plain_water_and_sugar-
sweetened_beverages)

Can find the rest of his publications here:

[http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Stephen_Onufrak/publicat...](http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Stephen_Onufrak/publications)

------
pbreit
I wonder if San Francisco's ban on water bottle sales (at public events) will
encourage more water fountains?

------
cjensen
Not mentioned is that much of the tap water in the US tastes _much_ worse than
it did 30 years ago due to increased standards which require water districts
to add more and more cleaning agents to the water. Cleaner tap water leads to
greater use of less-clean bottled water.

------
jest3r-
Nestle hires the homeless to pee in water fountains?

------
sliverstorm
So much for drinking from the hose, I guess.

