

China state media accuses Google of political agenda - cwan
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62K0A120100321

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shib71
For a company in Google's position the line between policy and politics is a
fine one. Their business depends on being the middleman between users and
content. Censorship isn't an abstract ideal or a cultural artefact in that
situation - it's a key factor in every decision they make, in China and
everywhere else.

~~~
fnid2
I wish more ideas in the U.S. were censored. Like the idea that it is okay for
bankers to make millions for creating zero value while putting people on the
street. Or that it is okay for the government to invade a sovereign entity and
take their oil. Or that it is okay to fly people to other countries on
corporate jets so you can torture them.

------
buster
Kudos to Google, the only company out there openly saying what everyone is
thinking. I don't know another company that would dare to do this (especially
in the lights of a huge, fast growing market and billions of dollars to lose).

~~~
fnid2
Have you ever really _thought_ about what it takes to run a country with 1.5
billion people in it? People are not rational.

Just click on this link and see what you get:
<http://duckduckgo.com/?q=the+world%27s+oldest+civilization>

Google has been around for 15 years. They come from a country that is 230
years old -- and is dying.

People aren't rational. People do stupid stuff all the time and while I agree
that putting people in prison for talking about stuff is harsh (the U.S. does
it too), china must keep much worse things from happening to protect the
_lives_ of over a _billion_ people.

They've been doing it successfully for thousands of years and it seems quite
arrogant and ignorant to suggest that it is a good idea for some punk from
across the pond to set the level of discourse necessary for China to continue
operating effectively.

If you want to see what "open communication" provides, just look at the U.S.
Did open communication stop an illegal war in Iraq? Did it prevent the
destruction of our 200 year old constitutional rights? Did it stop a dotcom
bubble or a housing bubble or a gold bubble? Has it promoted a study of
history or learning or _rational thought_? No.

It is really beyond me why people from America, one of the biggest pilferers
in the world, murderers in the world, and _secretive organizations_ in the
world would expect that increasing anything in china the way google is trying
to do will lead to something good. It hasn't led to something good in the U.S.
It's led to misery, suffering, and global catastrophe.

China is going to squash google like the little bug they are.

~~~
dublinclontarf
Worlds oldest civilisation? The CCP is not another dynasty and is only 60 at
best.

What the CCP has been doing is keeping itself in power and keeping the gravy-
train rolling.

Life in the U.S is far better for most than in China.

And the last time the CCP tried to run the country up to 80Million died, now
they let most things run themselves and just collect the protection money.

You sound like one of the 50cent gang, how much did the CCP pay you for this
post, and do you get more for it being in English?

~~~
fnid2
It's far better for Americans, but it's far worse for countless individuals
around the world.

Look, my life is not better because thousands of innocent people are dying in
Iraq. I suffer. My mind is full of regret that my life is what it is due to
torture, murder, and the theft and destruction of other people's property.

It's wrong and our society should hold our collective heads in shame.

I am not saying what china is doing is right. I am saying it is _wrong_ for us
to go into their country, profit off of their citizens and _break their laws_.
If you want to take their money, obey the law.

This is why I am anti-google. They are the example that proves we are a
lawless nation. Google has been allowed to break the law _repeatedly_ and
continue to profit. If any individual around here broke the laws that google
breaks every day -- making millions of dollars for doing it -- we'd be fined
or in prison.

~~~
dublinclontarf
Pfffsssht. you sound like China isn't full of arbitrary laws that make it
impossible to be "legal". You also sound like the people living there are
represented by their government, as opposed to being ruled by it.

Note, it's the "laws" of the CCP's dictatorship, not the citizens.

And all Google is doing is attempting to operate without complete political
censorship, of things that embarrass the CCP.

Your a shill, probably a poorly paid one.

~~~
fnid2
I was working for the 888 karma points. Please neg me so I can be more lucky.

------
cstross
Google is, in any event, an American corporation founded by Americans with
American political values (specifically those of the liberal/socially
libertarian west coast technosphere). "Don't be evil" is a _very_ political
agenda for a corporation in these days of profit maximization as the default
setting, and Google -- by the nature of their business model -- also has a
profit motive for maximizing uncensored communication.

So from the Chinese communist party point of view, it's absolutely correct to
say that Google has a political agenda.

(The question of whose political agenda -- the Party's or Google's -- is
_better_ is (a) a value judgement and (b) utterly irrelevant to the question
of whether Google's agenda is compatible with that of the Chinese ruling
party.)

~~~
est
> Google is, in any event, an American corporation founded by Americans with
> American political values

Baidu is, in any event, a Chinese corporation founded by Americans with
Chinese political values

~~~
garply
Robin Li is an American? Who are the other founders?

------
motters
The usual incoherent/conspiratorial rant that you'd expect from a totalitarian
state media. Google isn't trying to impose a political agenda, it's merely
trying to provide access to the world's information, which may include things
which the Chinese government prefers its population to remain ignorant about.

~~~
araneae
Not to mention the flat-out lies.

"In fact, no country allows unrestricted flow on the Internet of pornographic,
violent, gambling or superstitious content, or content on government
subversion, ethnic separatism, religious extremism, racialism, terrorism and
anti-foreign feelings."

The US does not restrict access to most of those things, as far as I know. The
only exceptions are child pornography laws, gambling, and presumably state
secrets are also kept off the net.

And hardly any countries restrict access to "superstitious content." I suspect
that's only the case in communist countries, where atheism is mandatory. In
fact, I didn't even realize China did this; what do they do, ban
www.dontwalkbehindladders.com ?

~~~
fnid2
It is funny that they include the superstitious stuff considering china is the
world's biggest consumer of shark fin soup, 8's and porcelain cats with
endlessly waving paws.

------
maeon3
From the article: "China requires Internet operators to block words and images
the ruling Communist Party deems unacceptable, including those involving
politically sensitive topics."

Google's political agenda is to stop China from setting the Agendas and
"approved thoughts" on the internet. The rhetoric and hot air is dense with
this story.

~~~
fnid2
There are approved thoughts in the U.S. too. Larry Summers wasn't allowed to
think it is possible that there may be some gender differences in intellectual
leanings. You get stiffer punishments for "hate" crimes. Try posting into a
chat forum somewhere that you want to do something that a political leader in
the U.S. wouldn't want you to do to him or her and see what happens. The
secret service will show up at your door -- it _has_ happened, because
"threatening the President is illegal."

[http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/16/teen_myspace_protest...](http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/16/teen_myspace_protest/)

It is humorous to me, that we are allowed to have guns in order that one day
we can defend ourselves against tyranny, but merely _talking_ about what may
be necessary to do that is illegal.

The level of hypocrisy in the google vs. china debate is bewildering.

------
maxklein
I personally strongly believe also that Googles actions were politically
motivated. Google is not standing up for free speech or anything like that -
they are just supporting the position of the United States government.

I expect a company to which I entrust my data to be neutral politically. I
don't care if my data is used to benefit someone, but I do not want my data to
be used for political purposes.

Google, in towing the line of the American government, has shown that it is a
political entity, and at some point, it could decide that anyone "anti-
american" would have their data handed over to the American government.

A company that has so much information about me should not be making any kind
of political statement. What if this were Nazi Germany and Google decided to
take the side of the government, and provided my data to it?

I can understand a company when it says that it wants to make money, it's
motivations are very clear to me. But when it says it "supports freedom",
well, who is the person that defines freedom? Who is to say that that
definition of freedom is the same as mine? Was Mandela not called a terrorist
at some point and at another point a freedom fighter?

