
NASA Adds to Evidence of Mysterious Ancient Earthworks - igonvalue
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/03/science/nasa-adds-to-evidence-of-mysterious-ancient-earthworks.html
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a2tech
The 'swastika' one is interesting to me-with the curved entranceways they look
kind of like funnels. Could it have been used as a place to herd and trap
animals? For example people have used naturally occurring box canyons to trap
horses-could the natives of this region, lacking natural canyons, been doing
the same thing?

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maze-le
If the dating is correct (~6000 BCE), this would still be 2000 years before
the earliest estimations of the domestication of horses.

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Turing_Machine
People were eating horses long before they domesticated them. :-)

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onestone
Google Maps link to one of the figures:
[https://goo.gl/maps/sFgt17ZiYhF2](https://goo.gl/maps/sFgt17ZiYhF2)

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samstave
I'm really interested in the fact it is in Kazakstan -- watch "the botany of
desire" where it talks about how modern humans came really from that region as
well as some significant agricultural discoveries...

Apples are originally from there IIRC...

Great doc regardless.

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alisson
This stone circles are pretty interesting to me:
[https://www.google.com/maps/place/25%C2%B038'08.5%22S+30%C2%...](https://www.google.com/maps/place/25%C2%B038'08.5%22S+30%C2%B021'18.8%22E/@-25.6364635,30.3544043,592m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0)

If you fly around this coordinates you can also find a lot of them:

    
    
      25 55′ 53.28″S, 30 16′ 13.13″E
      25 47′ 33.45″S, 30 40′ 38.76″E
      25 38′ 07.82″S, 30 21′ 18.79″E
      25 39′ 22.42″S, 30 17′ 03.25″E

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sophacles
There have been a lot of cool discoveries in the last few years, particularly
since google earth became available but generally with the easy availability
of satellite imagery. It's even got a name now - satellite archaeology. From
what I've read - at the high end it includes some cool processing using non-
visible wavelengths (e.g. infrared). But my understanding is that so far, it
is still a lot of people looking at pictures and saying "that looks like
people did it!".

Does anyone know of any efforts to automate via image/pattern recognition -
something like (off the top of my head) Comparing features that meet a certain
regularity threshold to maps of "known things" and flagging places that might
be significant and unknown? Seems like a fun project to devote some
time/effort to.

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hluska
I remember reading an article in Archaeology magazine. Some researchers from
some school automated the search for settlements. I can't remember if they
were successful or not.

Edit #1 - That was the most useless comment that I've ever either written or
read, so I did some digging. Here's the article that I remember:

[http://archive.archaeology.org/1207/features/aster_satellite...](http://archive.archaeology.org/1207/features/aster_satellite_remote_sensing_bronze_age_syria.html)

Jason Ur (one of the researchers) has a list of pubs available. Looks like a
few of these would be of value to you:

[http://scholar.harvard.edu/jasonur/node/93931](http://scholar.harvard.edu/jasonur/node/93931)

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toyg
"Jason Ur" is such a cool name for an archeologist, it wouldn't be out of
place in a movie or a book about immortals hiding among humans.

Edit: Wikipedia for the uninitiated:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason) and
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur)

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yodon
The large square with the diagonals is an interesting puzzle mathematically
(or culturally?). The square is 17 hills on a side (or 16 units of distance).
The diagonals are 11 hills from corner to center (or 10 units of distance) or
21 hills corner to corner (20 units of distance). You wouldn't build something
this big and this regular without planning it, so those numbers made sense to
someone at the time.

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fsiefken
yes, i immediately counted the hills too. The number 17 or 16 doesn't seem
like a coincidence. According to the wikipedia list of number 17 has some
intruiging properties. If the number 16 wasn't one of the factors involved in
the design perhaps one of the mathematical or religious properties of the
number 17 was (the 7th prime) or "For example, the patriarch Jacob lived 17
years after his son Joseph went missing and presumed dead, and lived 17 years
after their reunion in Egypt, and the lifespans of Abraham aged 175, Isaac
aged 180, and Jacob aged 147 are not a coincidence. "(The sum of the factors
in all three cases is 17; of what possible significance this is, I have no
idea.)" Leon Kass, The beginning of wisdom: reading Genesis,(Simon and
Schuster, 2003), ISBN 978-0-7432-4299-8, p. 413 n. 10 (citing Genesis 47:28),
quote from p. 629 n. 18

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MrQuincle
The sum of the factors in the prime factorization of 180 is 15: 2+2+3+3+5=15.
2x2x3x3x5=180. Pretty useless comment from my side, but I couldn't resist. :-)

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Alex3917
Given that the history channel believes the stone walls in New England could
only have been built by aliens, I can't wait to see what they come up with for
this.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6tpLjyx-
_g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6tpLjyx-_g)

~~~
dogma1138
Well it's the History channel which defaults to 3 things, Aliens, Nazi's and
Rednecks.

Sadly NG isn't that far behind either, tho i have to admit that the random
episode of Rocket City Rednecks I watched at the gym was amusing.

~~~
smacktoward
If the universe truly is infinite, that means it's a statistical certainty
that somewhere out there is the trifecta: Redneck Alien Nazis.

The History Channel should team up with SpaceX and start looking for them.
Imagine the ratings!

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michaelsbradley
Compare with the petroglyphs and geoglyphs discussed in Dr. Anthony Peratt's
2003 paper, _Characteristics for the Occurrence of a High-Current, Z-Pinch
Aurora as Recorded in Antiquity_ :

[http://plasmauniverse.info/downloadsCosmo/PerattTPSv31-2003c...](http://plasmauniverse.info/downloadsCosmo/PerattTPSv31-2003clr.pdf)

The timeframe (8,000 years old) mentioned in the article generally fits with
the timeframes given in Peratt's paper. So perhaps these earthworks are
further evidence of ancient peoples recording (in some sense) a stupendous
"light show" that defied explanation and ordinary human experience.

Additional publications on the same theory, by Peratt and other researchers:

[http://plasmauniverse.info/NearEarth.html](http://plasmauniverse.info/NearEarth.html)

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wrongc0ntinent
I wish they'd list the coordinates. I think I found some formations, searching
for the "swastika" near Urpek village. In the upper left corner there is a
bunch of green dots similar in size to the ones in the square, etc. They look
like gardens.

[https://www.google.com/maps/@50.0857785,65.2126098,636m/data...](https://www.google.com/maps/@50.0857785,65.2126098,636m/data=!3m1!1e3)

~~~
wrongc0ntinent
(edit window passed) These seem unusual because of the assumption that these
were exclusively nomad lands. Take that away and
agriculture/irrigation/livestock of some kind seems a lot more likely and a
lot less mysterious. There is no information about contemporary techniques in
the area either. While I'm curious about these, there are some clear red flags
of cultural superimposition in the original research.

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ohitsdom
It's really surprising to me that these are big enough to be seen from space
but are only now just getting recognition. Looking forward to hearing about
what we can discover from these earthworks!

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nucleardog
"Big enough to see from space" is pretty meaningless when we have cameras up
there that can zoom in and pick out an ant on a sidewalk.

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BasDirks
"Spotted on Google Earth in 2007 by a Kazakh economist and archaeology
enthusiast, Dmitriy Dey, the so-called Steppe Geoglyphs remain deeply puzzling
and largely unknown to the outside world."

Makes me wonder what else exists that we know nothing of. Specifically I
wonder what can be found in the Amazone region, the Sahara (well all of Africa
really), and now uninhabited parts of Russia.

PS. Can't we get some archeological Kickstarter (platform) going?

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heatherb
As most of the other comments here, I do believe these are footprints from
villages and structures that have worn away with time. The ones with circles
were probably areas where huts and other dwelling units were placed.

~~~
fsiefken
Hi Heather, which 'most of the other comments' are you referring to? If you
are talking about the geoglyphs only the top comment speculates they could
have been remains trappings for animals. The article itself talks about a
neolithic settlement nearby which is not part of the geoglyph. What makes you
think they were huts and dwelling units there? If that were the case one would
presume there would be remains of that. In the article there is link to how
the geoglyphs were made intentionally - so they didn't seem to have been be
villages or structures
[http://e-history.kz/en/contents/view/1562](http://e-history.kz/en/contents/view/1562)

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clueless123
I've seen very similar ground constructs on the valley of Palpa (next to the
Nazca lines in Peru )

The most popular theory is that they were used as ceremonial places.

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aaron695
TL;DR People in the old days got bored as fuck and made cool shit.

Sure we often put it down to religion, but the reality is we can chose to do
what ever we want to worship our gods and some people chose to do stuff that's
interesting and cool.

People are people, who doesn't want to make cool big things that last a long
time.

I like it.

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cesarmound
Those amazed by this discovery may find these other mounds also interesting:
[http://www.thequantummachine.com](http://www.thequantummachine.com)

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maaku
Is this the discovery of the Indo-European homeland at long last?

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fit2rule
Ah, if only Szukalski were alive to enjoy this.

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cpplinuxdude
I got lost a the word "space-age". I don't mean to be the pedantic one. Sorry.
But why would an outlet like the NYTimes use a word that means 1976 when they
don't mean it. Meh.

 _returns to article_

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lobster_johnson
Because it's a valid and appropriate term? Here's Oxford Dictionary:

    
    
        space-age, adj. very modern; technologically advanced: a space-age control room.

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dschiptsov
8000 years old is already nonsense.

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cfontes
Why?

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dschiptsov
Because claims of having some human settlements must be supported by other
factors to sustain assumed population. Without sustainable agriculture,
domestication of anals, established trade routes, developed tools and what we
would call 'best practices' no 'ancient settlement', leave alone 'ancient
civilization' is possible. It must be a very favorable place. This logic
applies to debunk nonsensical claims about inventd by pundits Tibetan
kingdoms, it applies here too.

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emcrazyone
The Discovery (or History) channel, I forget which, has a facinating series of
shows on Ancient Aliens.

This story reminds me of a story in the above mentioned series about a group
of researches who appeared to have been killed by some force in Siberia. Upon
further investigation, there appears to be some domes buried in the ground in
Siberia.

The domes are theorized to have killed the researchers. In the show, they said
an autoposy was done and some of the researchers were killed from the inside
out. In other words, there was no visible trauma to their skin but their rib
cage bones had been shattered.

[http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread544351/pg1](http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread544351/pg1)
[https://soipost.wordpress.com/2013/12/29/what-is-the-
purpose...](https://soipost.wordpress.com/2013/12/29/what-is-the-purpose-and-
who-built-these-mysterious-structures-in-siberia/)
[http://www.utaot.com/2013/02/27/scientists-prove-ancient-
ali...](http://www.utaot.com/2013/02/27/scientists-prove-ancient-alien-
cauldrons-in-siberia-are-real/)

I don't get much of an opportunity to talk about these things at work or
within my family. They think I'm nuts. But this really fascinates me too.

~~~
wobbleblob
Why is it so difficult to imagine neolithic cultures built these things? The
pyramids were designed without computers and built with stone tools, why
couldn't people ancient have made earthworks without the help of alien
technology? All it takes is some manpower and lots of time.

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mhurron
> Why is it so difficult to imagine neolithic cultures built these things

In fact it's incredibly insulting to everyone involved, and basically everyone
who has ever lived, that without the use of modern tools they couldn't
possibly do anything of note.

'Ancient Aliens' is a big fuck you to those who actually did the work.

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cbd1984
> 'Ancient Aliens' is a big fuck you to those who actually did the work.

The majority of whom were brown, if not black.

A lot of the Ancient Aliens bullshit is founded on a core of racism about a
millimeter beneath the surface. The rest is just simple ignorance about pre-
modern engineering and mathematical techniques.

