
Are rich people meaner? Two teams find errors in each other’s work - abrax3141
http://retractionwatch.com/2017/10/13/rich-people-meaner-trying-find-two-teams-find-errors-others-work/
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davidshalev
The majority of wealthy people became that way by some combination of lying,
cheating, stealing, fraud, misrepresentation, intimidation (extortion and/or
blackmail), market manipulation, insider trading, aggressive selling to
vulnerable people such as seniors, etc...... If you succeed on Wall Street,
you're most likely engaging in that behavior. Do people actually think that
most of these billionaires added billions in value? That every exchange is
voluntary and makes each side better off? Is the old lady with dementia who
unknowingly signed up to a terrible annuity "better off". Was the woman with
dementia a "sucker" for signing up and placing trust in the broker? The
ethical way to become rich is largely by inventing or innovating. Corporate
raiders such as Kravis, Icahn and Peltz are very far from being moral.
Arguably sociopaths with a mean streak. Surprised with the naive posts.

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averagewall
Who, besides dementia sufferers, are being cheated by those rich people?
Anyone with a sounds mind is surely making a rational decision that they
probably benefits themselves. If they're just trading at better prices than
the market, that still means they're providing value by actually being
available to trade with.

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davidshalev
There are enough vulnerable people to become rich off of? When I worked in
sales the calculus was pretty simple - either you sell to these people to make
money or you'll barely make money. The dirty little secret of success in sales
is is scoping out people who can be manipulated. Most products being sold do
not benefit the buyer. There is not enough ingenuity for that. The view that
capitalism just creates a collection of voluntary exchanges that better both
sides, is ludicrous.

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trapperkeeper74
People often conflate nebulous “evil” with more specific rational self-
interest, good investments and cheating/underpaying/stealing from people.

There are a lot of middling rich people whom do underpay people because it
works and don’t care about long-term views of themselves or of the
relationship... this can sabotage greater opportunities later on or current
income streams now (it’s a small world and a hyperconnected one). There are
many whom don’t because it also reflects poorly on them and their associates,
and it turns off their friends, potential customers, investors and partners...
also some people have integrity and wouldn’t dream of it.

In fact, the more connected someone is, the less likely they are to screw
people over because it’s a bigger risk. The big headlines of harassment or
scams are the exceptions. Certainly, there are instutions like many banks whom
obscure their wealth extraction from less rich and transfer it to their
investor/owners. They are culpable but may not believe or realize they are.

Wealth is a spectrum, as are integrity and personality. How is squishy
“science” going to “measure” take those nuances or mentally-
compartmentalized/hidden wealth transfer into account?

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hwillis
> Wealth is a spectrum, as are integrity and personality. How is squishy
> “science” going to “measure” take those nuances or mentally-
> compartmentalized/hidden wealth transfer into account?

By measuring on a spectrum of wealth and integrity, and choosing a sample size
so as to to ameliorate personality to p < .05. They have graphs of
socioeconomic class vs. unethical behavior. A few studies also included
priming the subjects to think in "greed is good" ways and measure the impact.

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trapperkeeper74
Spectrum isn’t an axis. There is much grey in the world statistics can’t
capture. Looking for data to fit a narrative is political science, not
science.

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drawkbox
The game is selfish, players must be selfish or self-interested to survive.
This game efficiently works out niceness/sharing as a matter of survival.

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warent
Do you have any research to back up that claim? In my experience, selfishness
and self-interest leads to isolation where nobody will help you with anything
worthwhile. Gotta care about other people and be a team player to succeed

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testvox
If you are being a team player because that's what's needed for you to succeed
personally then isn't being a team player the selfish strategy?

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allendoerfer
Taken to the extreme: If you do good to feel good, you are selfish. But I
don't think it matters to the outside. Let's judge the whole person and not
some Freudian ego of him.

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grasshopperpurp
I agree with this as a standard for judging others, which is what your post
addresses, so I have no disagreement with it.

For your self, though, if you are doing good only to feed your ego, the
appetite of your ego is still the driving force, so your morality will be
subject to the whims of your ego, which means that you're a fair-weather do-
gooder - sure to do bad when your ego demands it.

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esmi
I was super interested to read how they defined "rich". Is it just networth
greater than X? Is someone who saves diligently for 50 years to get X also
rich in their definition?

Sadly those details appear to be behind a paywall and it seems what they
really wanted to determine was the relationship between greedy attitudes and
social economic status although their summary does use the word rich plenty,
again, without defining it.

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chibg10
Equally important is how you define "unethical." I'd imagine people in higher
socioeconomic levels are more likely to lie in a negotiation or ignore traffic
laws (traffic penalties fines are regressive in the sense they are fixed,
skill in negotiating is probably correlated with skill in lying), but less
likely to commit violent crimes or engage in drug abuse.

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flachsechs
> _less likely ... to engage in drug abuse._

i really doubt this.

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jstanley
Less likely _to get caught engaging_ in drug abuse, maybe

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charlesdm
Or be convicted, definitely.

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KGIII
There is so much right in the above three posts that I'd vote twice, if I
could.

The wealthy buy drugs from people who drive nice sports sedans and wear suits,
or similar. They aren't down at the crack house giving blowjobs for dime bags.

Some of the biggest stashes of drugs, that I have seen, have been inside what
you'd probably call a mansion. No, this wasn't dealers. This was for personal
consumption and/or to be consumed by their guests.

Those guests may well have included people who work in the judicial system, by
the way.

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big_youth
Back in college my cocaine dealer was a city police officer. I had no idea
until I saw him eating at a local restaurant in his police gear.

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KGIII
I don't want to be too specific, but one of the best 'cooks' that I've known
was the ADA and now holds a higher elected position.

Cooks, for those who don't know, turn coke into crack, a smokable form.

She would do it with a stove and a coffee pot, as much as an ounce at a time.

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flachsechs
the biggest dealer at my college went to a "very good" law school and is now
working in DC.

go figure.

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stmfreak
This is confirmation bias epitomized. Rich people mean? Or do rich people
simply have a different view of the world than not-rich people? My kids think
I am mean. They are not rich by comparison. The differences in our behaviors
are the major reasons for our differences in incomes.

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Simulacra
I think wealth can sometimes give a false sense of superiority and
invincibility

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averagewall
You imply there is a true sense of superiority somewhere. What could be more a
true measure of general superiority than wealth? It comes from succeeding in a
game that everyone's playing.

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randyrand
Is this even a question?

Having spent my teenage years in what would otherwise be called a ghetto and
now living in a wealthier suburb, poor neighborhoods have _way_ more selfish
assholes. I'm very glad I got out of there.

I think being an asshole hurts you more than is helps you as you get richer.

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mruniverse
I have the same experience. When I was younger I was puzzled when my friends
mom (richer family) was so nice. Cooked large breakfast for us when I stayed
over, etc. And his friends were nice. And they talked normally to each other
and were funny and clever.

Where I came from, the norm was just anger. And the conversation was mostly
putting each other down. Or challenging each other. Still trying to overcome
that.

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mirrormind
How do you define rich?

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hwillis
You don't. You compare wealth/class to mean-ness. Arbitrarily defining a
cutoff would affect the results from the onset.

