
Gordon Murray-designed ‘OX’ flat-pack truck - kaishiro
http://www.topgear.com/car-news/big-reads/can-flat-pack-truck-save-world
======
sandebert
”Three trained (but not necessarily expert) people can put an OX together in
approximately 12 hours.” (from [http://oxgvt.com/the-ox-all-terrain-
vehicle/](http://oxgvt.com/the-ox-all-terrain-vehicle/))

I'd love for them to put up a full 12 hour video on YouTube showing the whole
process, with no fancy editing or disturbing music. Just three engineers
working away in a big, empty hall, turning a package into an OX. I imagine it
would be mesmerizing to watch.

~~~
loxs
I recommend you watch the ongoing Project Binky series:
[https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGSOZAHg1yQEatqhWza_a...](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGSOZAHg1yQEatqhWza_ae83e313-GLTO)

~~~
MagerValp
Project Binky is pretty much the opposite of what the GP asks for though,
they're clearly experts and it's taken much more than 12 hours :) But Binky is
hands down my favorite thing on YouTube, though Clickspring would have to come
in second: [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCworsKCR-
Sx6R6-BnIjS2MA/vid...](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCworsKCR-
Sx6R6-BnIjS2MA/videos)

------
tarikjn
When Gordon Murray designs a truck, it's worth paying attention. The McLaren
F1 road car pioneered a lot of new and creative technology that is still
trickling down in consumer cars today, while remaining an excellently built
car loved by enthusiasts and that has appreciated in value several folds. It
almost defined the brand of form following function in super cars. McLaren are
also known for building a lot of their own parts and tools down to the nuts
versus using suppliers. Given Gordon Murray's attention to details, there is
probably a lot more interesting things about this truck than the article can
mention.

~~~
cromulent
I haven't heard much about his iStream technology recently. I wonder if anyone
but Yamaha has taken it up.

[http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/news/a6665/gordon-
mu...](http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/news/a6665/gordon-murray-i-
stream-website/)

Murray "... even claimed that the process is so simplified that Walmart or
Apple could use it to start manufacturing cars."

~~~
jonah
the BMW i3 is probably the closest production vehicle. It's pretty
revolutionary:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDr4L6BzpP8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDr4L6BzpP8)

~~~
fwr
Is there a text version or an article about this?

~~~
jonah
The full report is available for $500k!

DDG says:

[http://www.hybridcars.com/teardown-reveals-bmw-i3-is-most-
ad...](http://www.hybridcars.com/teardown-reveals-bmw-i3-is-most-advanced-
vehicle-on-the-planet/)

[http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/01/05/reverse-engineering-
bmw-i3...](http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/01/05/reverse-engineering-bmw-i3/)

[http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2015/01/04/video-
unl...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2015/01/04/video-unlocking-
the-secrets-of-bmws-remarkable-car-of-the-future/)

But for more you'll just have to do some searching.

------
cbr
I was curious what it looked like flat-packed: [http://oxgvt.com/wp-
content/uploads/Flat-Packing2.jpg](http://oxgvt.com/wp-content/uploads/Flat-
Packing2.jpg)

~~~
jonknee
Thank you! I can't believe that wasn't in the article.

------
mrb
This reminds me of the soldiers who can disassemble and reassemble an entire
Jeep in 3 minutes:

[http://www.military.com/video/logistics-and-
supplies/militar...](http://www.military.com/video/logistics-and-
supplies/military-vehicles/soldiers-strip-and-rebuild-jeep-in-
minutes/694682404001/)

------
swatkat
Design looks similar to Australian OKA 4WD ATV[1]. Hindustan Motors in India
used to manufacture a licensed version called RTV, back in the 90s.

[1]
[http://web.archive.org/web/20121021203320/http://www.oka.com...](http://web.archive.org/web/20121021203320/http://www.oka.com.au/)

[2]
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.the...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.thehindu.com/2001/06/23/stories/06230005.htm)

~~~
digi_owl
Similar problems, similar solutions.

------
forkandwait
I want one! Where do I order?

Anybody know about the emissions and if you can drive it in the US (non-
California)?

I also wonder if the parts are easy and standard enough to make in more widely
distributed factories. Seems the revolution waiting to happen is when a small
country can make at least some of the parts in a small factory and trade with
other similar partners to commodify the ecosystem, like PCs in the 1990s etc.

~~~
jonah
As a " kit car" I suspect you can legally register and drive it. They're not
held to the same standards as a production vehicle.

~~~
ChuckMcM
Exactly one, but yes you can register it.

------
rihegher
"Murray says the inspiration for the dynamics came from the Renault 4, once a
much-loved off-roader in Africa and Southern Europe."

for those who are interested the renault 4 also called 4l is used for an
international race run by student every year since 20 years.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/4L_Trophy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/4L_Trophy)

------
gambiting
Wasn't an ultra cheap Chinese-made truck banned in EU, because in a head-on
crash at 30mph the whole cabin would just basically fold into itself, killing
everyone inside - does this extremely simple design not suffer from the same
problem?

------
bikamonki
How exactly is £10-15000 cheap in developing countries?

~~~
PieterH
The real cost hits over years of use. These things will effectively last
forever, as each part can be replaced as needed. There is plenty of money in
developing countries, just poorly distributed. You can easily see how the Ox
would pay for itself in reducing transport costs to/from remoter communities.

Also, the price will fall, these trucks will be sold second, third, tenth
hand... Same as with "expensive" mobile phones in years past.

~~~
sangnoir
> These things will effectively last forever, as each part can be replaced as
> needed.

You will find that Toyota comfortably holds this niche in most developing
countries. Toyotas are reliable, and there's a glut of cheap Toyota spares due
to network effects. The only advantage the Ox has over a Toyota Hilux is that
it can carry about 800kg more (about double). On all other points, the Hilux
is ahead or on par.

~~~
exDM69
There's a caveat... it's the old, pre-2000s Toyota Hilux cars that are durable
and easy to repair. A newer Hilux isn't as simple and reliable as the old
ones, and the old ones are in short supply.

Although the new Hilux cars seem to be quite popular in Africa and Middle East
too. Perhaps it's the brand, or perhaps there are some similarities (or even
interchangeable parts) that make it desirable.

------
grecy
Not much information on the diesel engine used.

Is it a Common Rail, computer-controlled diesel?

I'm in West Africa now, and the diesel quality down here means you really want
an all-mechanical injection pump, not a CRD.

Cool idea, but he's got to remember that virtually no body down here (save the
UN and big NGOs) buys new vehicles. They're all clapped-out things shipped in
from Europe - even the land cruisers have 400,000+ kms on them when they get
here.

~~~
exDM69
> Not much information on the diesel engine used.

It does mention that it's an off-the-shelf Ford Transit diesel engine and
transmission. I'm sure you can find the answers to the rest of your questions
based on that.

~~~
maxerickson
Likely some variant of
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Duratorq_engine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Duratorq_engine)

There are quite a few.

~~~
sbierwagen
These are all turbodiesels, which wouldn't be my first choice for use in a
place where you can't get spare parts.

~~~
grecy
Except for the computer running everything, the high-pressure common rail that
will hate bad diesel, and the touchy injectors that cost an arm and leg to
replace, and also hate bad diesel.

Those engines are great in the first world, not so much in the 3rd.

~~~
sbierwagen
Note the use of "wouldn't" in my comment.

------
vessenes
I can't believe I'm the only commenter who seems to want one of these. I
really want one of these. I'd like my kids to be able to mess around with car
repair as they get older, and this just seems perfect for teenagers --
camping, glamping, drive 11 closest friends around -- seriously, I love this.

This is just a very modern car/truck. I love it.

~~~
tsomctl
Get an old Toyota pickup. They go anywhere, reliable, cheap, easy to work on,
parts are cheap.

~~~
exDM69
Old Toyota Hilux pickups are hard to come by (in any kind of decent shape) and
if you happen to find one, be prepared to pay a lot of money.

Even here in northern Europe, a mid-1980s Hilux might sell for 5000 eur in a
barely runnable condition. There are two reasons, first: these things are easy
to repair but spare parts are an issue. Second: it can be in quite shitty
condition and can still be sold to Africa for a decent amount of money.

Then there's the indestructible reputation that surely brings up the price.

------
kragen
Can some Englishperson kindly explain to me what these phrases mean?

\- "sand ladders"

\- "a blockable front brake"

\- "a six-speed power take off"

Also, why is there no video? Doesn't Top Gear have anyone on staff who can
edit video? Or am I just missing the link?

~~~
schismsubv
Not English, but easy enough. \- A sand ladder is a weight distribution
mechanism that may be used to improve traction on loose materials. You can
achieve the same effect by putting a board under a tire when stuck in sand or
snow. \- A blockable front brake would allow you to lock one wheel, allowing
spinning the other freely. If that other one were jacked up out of earth
contact, the adapter provided would allow you to easily connect the wheel to a
standard PTO, with the advantage of a transmission. This would allow you to
pump water, generate electricity at a larger scale, run stationary farm
implements, etc.

~~~
kragen
Thank you! I hadn't heard of a PTO before.

------
ChuckMcM
Boy, this would be pretty fun to hack. I can imagine the RV possibilities.

------
andyidsinga
very cool ..I would buy one.

I'm assuming there's more to the name...unlike normal trucks that can only go
up to 10, this one can go all the way to 0xB ;)

------
afarrell
Could this be easily disassembled and stored in a way that it doesn't degrade
while in storage? If so, could the same design techniques be applied to
building MRAPs that don't end up as military surplus?

------
thesmok
Looks like OX is doing the same to trucks what Raspberry Pi did to computers.

------
JoeAltmaier
Designed to be hand-manufactured - no robots. Interesting choice. Is it
because labor is cheaper where this might be made? But its made in England...

~~~
rcoder
The tooling and engineering required for a modern car (even just a refresh of
an existing model) costs hundreds of millions of dollars. Ignoring that cost
automation might be cheaper, but if you expect to produce thousands, not
millions, you're almost certainly better off using old-school machine-shop
equipment and processes.

Going that route also lets you do manufacturing closer to the intended market,
vs. requiring supply chain, power, and other infrastructure that could be in
short supply in the developing world.

------
Nux
It looks like you'd need a cat C license to drive this (in UK), alas.

Still, the DIY-er in me loves the idea, hope they do well and get even
cheaper.

------
noonespecial
So about the same price as a _brand new Hilux_? Which are already produced
100's of thousands per year and are already all over the place in the
developing world.

I've got much respect for Gordon Murray but did I miss something here? At
something like 1/3 the price he might be on to something, but like this, its
just another rattle-trap diesel truck only suitable for 3rd world use. They've
got lots of those already. Plus at a cost that high to start with, I'm not
sure "you can save a few bucks in shipping if you put it together like an IKEA
couch" is actually a feature.

~~~
willvarfar
> And most of all, despite its strength, the OX has an extraordinary weight-
> to-payload ratio. It weighs just over 1,700kg ready to roll, but can carry
> another 1,800kg. Most pickups weigh much more yet will shoulder much less. A
> standard Ford F150 or Toyota Hilux takes barely 1,000kg.

> And because the OX is much cheaper, a buyer could have a bigger fleet.
> “There is just no competition, anywhere,” says Murray. “OXen would have a
> five times ratio of carrying capacity to cost versus Hiluxes.”

~~~
ddeck
_> “There is just no competition, anywhere,” says Murray._

How about a jeepney then? Perhaps the Ox has an advantage for extremely rugged
terrain, but it's hardly cheap. In the Philippines for example, a brand new 20
passenger jeepney costs GBP 8k:

 _" For the record, a fully-appointed 20-passenger jeepney--with an "Isuzu
4BC1 engine, 75-percent stainless-steel body, stereo system, stickers, halogen
lights, side aluminum jalousies"\--is priced at P510,000 if you buy it in
cash"_ [1]

That was in 2011, but prices remain similar.

[1] [http://www.topgear.com.ph/features/feature-articles/how-
much...](http://www.topgear.com.ph/features/feature-articles/how-much-does-a-
jeepney-cost-these-days)

~~~
handedness
The Ox's kit will be manufactured in the UK, where the average wage is 11x
higher than in the Philippines.

That aside, Jeepneys are horrendous vehicles for anything other than their
primary use: going from stop to stop on flat ground, while carrying human
cargo with a high turnover rate.

The Jeepney weighs twice as much as the Ox and struggles with any incline (up
or down–given the weight and their generally shoddy brakes, stopping quickly
is out of the question), handles poorly with suspension that would have been
unsophisticated a half a century ago, and becomes a hazard at any speed above
gridlock.

The cargo capacity of the two appears to be significantly different, as the
Jeepney's optimized around having two benches for people–the rear opening is
positively small for cargo, removing the bench is a hassle (if it isn't welded
in place to begin with), and the roof is fixed, giving no allowance for oddly-
shaped cargo.

The two vehicles are hardly comparable.

~~~
ddeck
_> That aside, Jeepneys are horrendous vehicles for anything other than their
primary use: going from stop to stop on flat ground, while carrying human
cargo with a high turnover rate._

Agreed, but that's sort of the point. It's a cheap local solution perfectly
suited to local requirements. Similar solutions exist for transporting cargo
both on land and sea. It's also produced domestically, which benefits both the
price, maintainability, and local economy.

The reason for my comparison was to challenge the points in the article that
seem to suggest that the developing world is crying out for a solution like
this at this price point. It certainly looks like a decent product, but I
can't see it being a game changer in any way.

------
digi_owl
The first thing that came to mind was the WV Beetle.

------
ajuc
If developed world works anything like 90s Poland - people would prefer used
cars with more features/better comfort to a new car with less features/worse
comfort.

For carrying capacity it's nowhere near a tractor + a trailer combo. And also
tractor can drive anywhere, even places that 4WD won't, not mentioning weird
2WD.

It seems to be a cool project not solving any particular problem.

------
tajen
Part of the immature me wishes we don't invent new _diesel_ trucks for
developing countries, especially not with the goal of making it accessible to
massive new markets. Doing so will extremely accelerate the global warming and
local cancerigen pollution, both of which are there for the duration of the
vehicle line (40 years?). I wish we'd start issuing electric models and
portable ...nuclear plants? Solar systems? With wifi? This is childish, but
the irresponsible pollution aspect of new diesel vehicles is worth pointing
out.

~~~
gambiting
The thing is, that supplying a diesel truck to a rural community might
dramatically improve living standards in the community. The damage done by
burning diesel is small compared to the improvement of livelihood of dozens of
people.

I would say, if you are worried about trucks polluting the earth, we should
stop ordering shit online and expecting that every supermarket everywhere has
all the freshest produce from every corner of the world. I'm willing to bet
that the ecological cost of my local supermarket having fresh cherries from
Chile or watermelon from Argentina(I'm in UK) is an order of magnitude greater
than all diesel trucks used by 3rd world African villages combined.

~~~
joosters
Fresh fruit or flowers from remote parts of the world are often flown to the
UK via backloads, i.e. planes that would otherwise be empty. So the ecological
cost is not as great as you may think.

~~~
gambiting
I know that plane manufacturers try to make their planes as light as possible,
because every kg translates to actual fuel needed to fly - so even if a plane
would fly empty otherwise, filling it up with fruit has a cost. Not to mention
this fruit has to then be taken to shops on a fleet of trucks etc etc.

Don't get me wrong, I love that I can buy fresh produce any time of the year -
but I just wanted to point out that denying the developing world basic
transport technology to fight pollution, while we burn through monumental
amounts of oil just to get stuff that improves our lives marginally, is not
really fair.

------
pinaceae
The overall design is a riff of the Steyr Pinzgauer:
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinzgauer_High-
Mobility_All-...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinzgauer_High-Mobility_All-
Terrain_Vehicle)

The British Army is using them, so Murray has likely been inspired by it.

It was designed for Mountains in Austria, is pretty much unbeatable in tough
terrain - just put on chains and gogogo.

Original had petrol engines, not diesel to avoid freezing up in winter
conditions.

As a driver in the Austrian Army we basically learned the whole thing front to
back, assemble and disassemble like a rifle.

Such a fun ride.

