

The borderless SIM is finally here - Libertatea
http://qz.com/422401/goodbye-roaming-charges-the-borderless-sim-is-finally-here/

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phlo
Instead of a SIM with one number that works across countries, the article
discusses routing both a belgian and a luxembourgian number to the same SIM.
The customer is then apparently billed by both telcos, depending on where they
currently are. This seems like the worst solution to the roaming problem out
there: Multiple phone numbers, relations to multiple carriers...

With (existing) competitors like OneSimCard or Project Fi, you get a single
phone number, a single bill and (what seems to me like) a much better deal. Am
I missing something there?

~~~
rb2k_
You are right in that it seems like a impractical solution and the providers
should just figure out roaming.

As far as the competition goes: OneSimCard charges 25 cents per Megabyte,
Project Fi doesn't really exist since you need an invite and it doesn't work
on most phones.

~~~
pjc50
Roaming exists, works, and is often horribly expensive to the user. This is
basically a system for arbitraging that away using two numbers on one SIM
rather than two SIMs.

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beseku
I've just come back from Europe (Spain) for the the first time with my
operator and their new free roaming plan - it was amazing.

I pay Three £15 p/m for unlimited data, lots of intra-Three calls and some
messages/calls to other networks (in the country I'm in at the time) and can
now do that not just in the UK but in Spain, the US, Australia and more
([http://www.three.co.uk/Discover/Phones/Feel_At_Home](http://www.three.co.uk/Discover/Phones/Feel_At_Home)).
That's cheaper than most local operators and a much better example than whats
offered here.

I'd wager it won't be long before Three sims are being picked up by tourists
and used as their main operator back at home.

~~~
m_t
I'm using Three too with the same plan, but when I'm in a Feel At Home
destination, I still pay if I send a texts to a local number. It is not
included in my general texts allowance. Am I doing something wrong?

The data itself is free though, which is the most important for me. It is
definitely better than having to go to a phone store and get a cheap sim.

~~~
koyote
Feel At Home basically means that your mobile will act the same as if you were
in the UK.

Sending a text from the UK to a (for example) Spanish number incurs a cost
outside of your allowance. So that same text would also incur a cost when you
are in Spain.

~~~
geocar
I've set up Google Voice -> US SIP -> UK SIP -> 3 Mobile. This gives me a US
number to give out to Americans (who don't want to dial my UK number) that
they can text/call. I can then make calls when on Wifi or using a Phonecard
app which automatically dials my UK SIP and forwards the call via the US SIP
provider. I don't have to switch SIMs or give up my UK number.

This works well for me (since I travel between the US/UK often)

~~~
koyote
Can't you just use Google Voice on Three's 4g connection/Wifi to make/receive
calls/texts on your Google Voice number using Hangouts?

What's the purpose of the two SIPs?

~~~
geocar
Three doesn't have any 4G when roaming, and the 4G isn't that great even in
London (compared to say: Vodafone).

Texting with Google Voice is fine though.

The two sips are registered to the same installation of asterisk: The UK
provider gives me a UK number and rates equivalent to a UK landline.

The US provider gives me a US number (which is registered with google voice)
and rates equivalent to a US landline.

------
cosmolev
So what is the advantage over having two separate SIMs and switching them at
the border? You still have two telephone numbers with only one being active at
a particular moment.

~~~
cowsandmilk
The advantage is not having to switch them... Your phone does it for you.

I mean, it isn't like the border between the Netherlands and Belgium is always
straightforward[1].

[1] [http://www.iamdanw.com/wrote/what-are-borders-
anyway/](http://www.iamdanw.com/wrote/what-are-borders-anyway/)

~~~
cosmolev
That's not even a workaround. I still need to give people both numbers and
instruct them when they should call one or another. That's the pain carriers
should address.

------
culturestate
This isn't as new or novel as the article makes it sound, though I suspect
getting it done in Europe was difficult. Similar options have been available
for years in China; most (all?) of the major carriers offer cross-border SIMs
for Hong Kong and Macau, e.g. [1].

They're available in both prepaid and postpaid, and generally offer the same
rate for calls, SMS, and data within major cities (i.e. Beijing, Shanghai,
Shenzhen, and Guangzhou, which probably covers 90% of cross-border travel.)

1\.
[http://www.three.com.hk/website/appmanager/three/home?_nfpb=...](http://www.three.com.hk/website/appmanager/three/home?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=P200470391219567710594&lang=eng&pageid=561001)

------
brc
I've never understood why roaming charges are so scandalous. Surely the
telecoms know if they dropped their prices they would make a lot more money?

~~~
mschuster91
Part of the problem is that country governments extracted a shitload of money
out of the telcos. In Germany, the telcos paid a combined 96.000.000.000 € for
the UMTS frequencies in 2000 (making 1200€ per citizen, assuming 80M citizens
in Germany), and in 2010 another 3.600.000.000 €.

Now add the enormous capital requirement of first building a countrywide
network of GSM BTS, then upgrade these to UMTS, then to LTE (and, of course,
always having to upgrade the backhaul links) and you see why mobile phone
operators try to squeeze any penny out of the customer's pocket they can.

~~~
pgeorgi
'extracted' as in 'run an auction to let the market sort it out'.

It's popular to blame governments for everything, but if market actors behave
irrationally, there's nobody to blame but them.

~~~
pjc50
Indeed, people are always saying "let the market decide". We ran a market. It
decided.

~~~
pyvpx
to the detriment of the citizens of Germany, as they pay more for less than
just about anyone in the EU for mobile data.

------
benjohnson
If you just need a global "page-me-if-somthing-horrid-happens" the Iridium
based DeLorme InReach works well - there's a pay as you go plans for about $24
+ $.50 per message.

The nice thing is they really do work anywhere, and the per-page-costs keep
your family and coworkers from spamming you during a nice vacation - yet they
can get ahold of you for a true emergency.

------
adibchoudhury
Roaming just isn't a practical solution (way too expensive) but neither is
this. Honestly swapping out SIMs between country isn't too difficult of a
task, and likely saves you a ton of money when compared to roaming or this
"borderless SIM." Lots of countries go with cheap prepaid options anyways.

~~~
ghshephard
The problem with swapping out SIMs is that people who have your phone number
can't contact you.

AT&T Roaming typically costs about $500-$800/month with their international
plan for $120/ 800 MB roaming, $150/Gigabyte. It's a pretty common plan for US
road warriors who are probably racking up $20,000-$25,000 in Hotel/flight
charges already.

------
z02d
Also interesting: [http://www.politico.eu/article/data-telecoms-europe-
divide/](http://www.politico.eu/article/data-telecoms-europe-divide/)

[http://www.transatel-datasim.com](http://www.transatel-datasim.com)

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dionys
I am customer of O2 in my home country - Slovakia and I currently live in
Czech Republic. O2 recently came up with a program that allows me to pay exact
same charges as I would at home (both phone and data). It is much simpler to
have one number than numerous SIM cards...

~~~
vetinari
O2 SK always had a somewhat funny relationship with Czech republic. It used to
be cheaper to call from Slovakia or from roaming in CZ, than local Czech
calls.

------
zhte415
Don't Blackberry do flat rates globally, voice and data? At they did where I
last worked and had a Blackberry. About $100 per month, unlimited (at least,
that's how much it was charged internally).

------
MacsHeadroom
T-Mobile offers unlimited 4G in 113 countries for $90USD/month.

I travel often and haven't had any issues using it to call and text via Google
Hangouts.

~~~
ac29
Is this a specific plan? The plans I know of with unlimited data in foreign
countries are hardly 4G -- they might technically connect to 4G/LTE, but they
are throttled to 128kbit/s. That's roughly equivalent to some of the 2G-3G
transitional technology speeds. GPRS (2.5G) was 80kbit/s, EDGE (2.75G) was
2-3x that [0].

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Packet_Radio_Service#C...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Packet_Radio_Service#Channel_encoding)

------
kyriakos
travelling to Germany / France / Luxembourg next month and was wondering if
there's a good solution for mobile data? I hear in germany you can't get a
local sim card unless you are a resident. is that true?

~~~
rb2k_
For Germany that's false. You can get usually get one of the "no-frills"
prepaid providers at any supermarket register (Medion Mobile at Aldi, Lidl
Mobile at Lidl, jamobil at Rewe, ...). You will usually need internet to
activate it.

I (native German, living in the US) usually just use my american T-Mobile SIM.
Thanks to their free global data roaming, I don't have to care which country
I'm in when visiting Europe.

It is "unlimited", but they throttle you to something like 10 kb/s. Still
works fine for Maps/eMail/Facebook/... It's honestly not thaaat bad because I
still had LTE, so the latency was great, just the throughput was mediocre. I
was even able to use Facetime Audio. T-Mobile also supports WiFi calling on my
iPhone, so as soon as I had WiFi, I was able to just call people back in the
US for free.

------
Galanwe
Sorry, but there is nothing new here. Skype has been providing this service
for years now.

It could either be achieved by buying a "Skype number" in the country you are
visiting, or by using "Skype To Go".

And you don't have to dual-sim, you can route numbers wherever you want.

~~~
thrownaway122
And where does your data get paid for?

