
Linux developer Seth Vidal killed in Hit and Run accident on his bike. - codesuela
http://www.wral.com/bicyclist-killed-in-durham-hit-and-run/12639104/
======
hkmurakami
Oh man. I was hit by a car from behind while cycling like Seth 2 months ago.
The car was travelling at 50mph and if I had been hit straight on (I was hit
by the sideview mirror) I could have easily, _easily_ been in Seth's shoes. (I
was in the hills and had to be helicoptered to the hospital)

I'm not sure how to describe it but I'm sitting here in front of my Linux
desktop feeling really really uneasy. I tend to laugh off the accident these
days but it's really hitting me that I could have been dead and not be able to
write this post.

~~~
kliao
i'm glad you're ok, haj!

------
rcavezza
Riding a bike is dangerous. Take special precautions. Be aware of your
surroundings. Wear bright colors. Wear extra lights if possible.

I am too scared to ride a bike in Boston, but I always make sure to check
twice before opening my car door after parallel parking.

Be safe, bikers of HN.

~~~
danieldk
_Riding a bike is dangerous._

This really makes me feel sorry for people who live in countries that do not
encourage cycling.

I was born and raised in The Netherlands. _Every_ Dutch friend and family
member of mine learnt cycling as a small child. Many of them still cycle daily
without a helmet, special clothing, or whatever. I cannot remember anyone
having a serious accident. Two persons I know broke their arms, but in both
cases there was no car involved (icy roads).

The difference? We have bicycle lanes. _Many_ of them. They are often
separated from the main roads. When there are lights, there are often separate
bicycle lights. Besides that, laws are highly in favor of pedestrians and
cyclers. For instance, a car driver is always responsible for paying 100% of
damages of children under 14 and 50% of damages of those over 14. So, if a 40
year old cyclist is hit by a car, and 75% responsible for the accident and the
car driver 25% responsible, the car driver still pays 50% of the damages of
the cyclist. One of the results is that drivers of motorized vehicles tend to
be more careful.

tl;dr: ask your government to make more cycling lanes and pass laws that favor
pedestrians and cyclists.

~~~
saalweachter
What are the traffic rules like in the Netherlands?

Every time there's a bike story on HN, there's always a long side thread about
bicycles not stopping at lights, going the wrong way down one way streets, etc
etc, so I'm curious what happens in a place with mature infrastructure.

~~~
danieldk
_Every time there 's a bike story on HN, there's always a long side thread
about bicycles not stopping at lights, going the wrong way down one way
streets, etc etc, so I'm curious what happens in a place with mature
infrastructure._

Pretty much the same things. Even as a cyclist I am amazed what other cyclists
pull off wrt. to violating traffic rules.

But I think the difference is that most car drivers are or were also cyclists
and the law favors cyclists, so car drivers tend to pay attention at
intersections.

------
ned_roberts
Just to add more fuel to the bike vs car fire: Did anyone else catch that the
driver was driving with a _revoked_ license? [1] Clearly he shouldn't have
been operating a vehicle and probably had a history of dangerous driving. But
hey, this is America, we gotta drive.

[1] [http://www.wral.com/man-charged-in-durham-hit-and-run-
that-k...](http://www.wral.com/man-charged-in-durham-hit-and-run-that-killed-
bicyclist/12644209/)

~~~
wizzard
Good to know the guy turned himself in (apparently). This should be the link
of note now.

------
VincentEvans
Personally, I find it odd that traffic laws in US actually mandate (!) that
bicyclists are to use the roadway and not the sidewalk.

Growing up in former USSR, I, along with other kids, used a bike to get around
and for pleasure and have always stayed on the sidewalk (I don't think there
were any laws about bikes).

From experience, I feel there's very little chance of injuring anyone, and
even if it does happen - it is likely to be much less frequent and much less
serious than what we observe with the bikes sharing the road with the cars. On
rare occasions (rural locations) where there was no sidewalk - you'd ride
towards oncoming traffic, same as what common sense recommends for pedestrians
- so that you can see the cars and can avoid them if situation calls for it.
That's probably illegal in US, since it appears that bikes here are somehow
deemed more like motor vehicles and not pedestrians.

To conclude - I think the status quo is misguided (originally wrote stupid)
and dangerous and traffic laws oughtta be changed to put soft squishy humans
on two wheels on the sidewalks.

~~~
irremediable
I used to think as you do concerning the pavement. However, experience
cycling[1] has taught me that the pavement is _not_ a safer place to cycle.
Cars expect slow-moving pedestrians on the pavement, not fast-moving bicycles.
Consequently, cycling on the pavement leads to a lot of collisions with cars
as they pull in/out of driveways.

[1] In Oxfordshire, UK -- this may be inapplicable to the US.

~~~
VincentEvans
You go as far as to say that riding a bike on a sidewalk is not a safer place
for the bicyclist as compared to riding it on a roadway along with cars? I'd
expect you to be in a minority in this, your experience must be very different
from mine.

The way I see it - if my 13 y/o daughter takes a bike to go to convenience
store a couple of blocks down the street to get some ice cream with friends -
I sure hope she breaks the traffic laws and stays on the sidewalk.

~~~
lovehashbrowns
I don't know if it's safer but it is still really stupid to use the sidewalk.
Not for a kid, your 13-year-old would not be told to use the street.

But I live in Chicago and, like you, used to think that it would be safer to
be on the sidewalk because of the really stupid drivers that we tend to have
here. A few days after making that decision, I nearly hit a person coming out
of their house. There was no way for me to see them and not way for them to
see me. As a pedestrian, I've been nearly hit coming around corners and I also
barely managed to avoid getting hit from the front by a jackass who wasn't
paying attention.

It's just not very safe for the pedestrians. There are so many circumstances
where it's impossible to avoid a collision.

Although I will say that I am shitting bricks every time I ride on the street,
even if I am on a bike lane. Most drivers are really good and they pay
attention, but there are some that are just fucking stupid. They have no idea
what the laws are and they think a bike should be on the sidewalk so they
drive erratically to get me off the road or they honk and yell at me even
though I'm doing everything right.

------
unwind
Yesterday's submission:
[http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6013989](http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6013989).

~~~
codesuela
thanks, I hit Ctrl+F Seth but did not find anything in the top or recent
submissions

------
antitrust
The inevitable biking debate continues.

If the US had bike lanes, and bikes didn't choke traffic back to 8 mph as I
see them doing every day on major streets, causing a half-mile backup[1], I
think the US would be more friendly to bikes.

The problem is a sub-set of bike riders who generally are weekenders and seem
to take pleasure in holding up traffic because it makes them feel important.
Then in retaliation, there's a sub-set of car drivers who become enraged by
this and act out typical road rage, except here it's a 2,000 lb vehicle versus
a 48-lb vehicle with no external frame.

I don't think the solution is any of the following:

1\. Car drivers suck 2\. Bike riders suck 3\. We need bike lanes!

I think it's going to require behavioral changes from both car drivers and
bike riders, and probably a redesign of cities to be bike-accessible.

Back to the topic at hand: Seth's death is tragic and he will be missed. I
think a lot of our rage comes from the frustration at losing someone who was
such a talented contributor and also a person many of us admired for his
personal traits as well.

___

[1] Montrose, Shephard, Memorial, Elgin and Richmond.

------
swayvil
Hurtling multiton hunks of steel are incompatible with humans and other living
things. We shouldn't mix them, but we do.

~~~
antitrust
Even bike lanes may not be enough. I'd prefer separate roads. That's sort of
the approach taken by the green belts in my city, which allow you to bike
alternate routes to some major destinations. Unfortunately, it's mixed
pedestrian/bike traffic.

------
fein
This is why we need bike lanes.

Also, make sure you wear lights at night guys/gals. You can buy cheap red
flashers from the dollar store.

~~~
NIL8
Sad news.

I don't ride my bike out on the roads because of the danger of being hit. I
often marvel at the courage, audacity, and sometimes foolishness of those who
are brave enough to ride their bikes on our roads. There needs to be a
stronger push to makes this safer.

Bike lanes should be in every city in the country. Everyone would be better
off if there were bike lanes and bike use was encouraged. I realize that this
probably isn't OP's intended point, but it's worth mentioning.

~~~
fein
I ride in the street every day, and violate our "no bikes on the sidewalks"
rule constantly for my own safety.

Just last week I was almost hit while hogging the lane to make a left into my
apartment complex by a car that thought it would be more fun to pass on the
left (over the double yellow)... while I was making said left turn.

This was in broad daylight; I can only image what would have been the case had
it been at night.

------
gbraad
... :-( Condolences to my fellow Fedora community members and those who have
worked with him at Red Hat. He will be missed.

Thanks Jono Bacon for his message:
[http://www.jonobacon.org/2013/07/09/remembering-seth-
vidal/](http://www.jonobacon.org/2013/07/09/remembering-seth-vidal/)

------
dav
Very sad. A close friend of mine was an acquaintance of Seth's. He pointed out
this video of Seth talking about biking around Durham:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wE3gi...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wE3giRsLKso)

------
Patrick_Devine
Seth, you'll be missed.

------
lnanek2
Kind of silly he was a programmer and should be logical, but then he rode a
bike. It would be great if it was safe to ride around on our roads without a
crash cage around you, but it isn't. Cycling is 1% of all trips and 2% of all
deaths. If you can afford a car/taxi/shuttle/bus/etc. and value your life, you
should not be getting on one.

~~~
nathanb
The crime rate in San Francisco is well higher than the national average [1].
If you value your life, you should not live in San Francisco. It's the only
logical choice.

Heart disease is the leading cause of death in the US [2], and is empirically
linked with dietary and lifestyle choices. If you value your life, you should
not live in the US.

The leading cause of HIV infection in the US (by a large margin) is male-to-
male sexual contact [3]. If you are gay and value your life, you should remain
celibate.

Logical programmers will avoid all of these things.

HN, take note.

[1] [http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-San-Francisco-
Californi...](http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-San-Francisco-
California.html)

[2]
[http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm](http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm)

[3]
[http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/statistics/basics/](http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/statistics/basics/)

~~~
thebooktocome
There's not much "logical" about your arguments. Maybe you meant "rational",
but then you failed to do any actual risk analysis.

~~~
nathanb
Yes, you are correct. Allow me to introduce you to the concept of satire.

