
Tesla workers speak out: 'Anything pro-union is shut down really fast' - SmkyMt
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/sep/10/tesla-workers-union-elon-musk
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fisherjeff
> He added that management quickly finds reasons to fire employees who tout
> their efforts to form a union and those who are fired are pushed to sign
> non-disclosure agreements before receiving their last paycheck.

I’d hope this is just a misunderstanding of the facts or something, because
wow that last part’s just horrifying.

~~~
ABCLAW
This is fairly common. Most severance payments are settlements, of which the
first offer is made by the company.

Employees can refuse the settlement, then sue their former employer under
various wrongful dismissal/common law severance heads, but that requires
getting a lawyer, and lawyers are generally more expensive than the few extra
months of wages you'll get back. The cost of getting justice is used to scalp
workers for a month or two of earnings all the time.

... Unless you were sexually assaulted and offered peanuts, or recorded your
immediate supervisor threatening you with physical harm or something. Then
lawyering up pays off.

~~~
fisherjeff
I’m hoping that’s the misunderstanding: Severance != last paycheck.

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yalph
I am progressive as it gets but living in NY and witnessing the current state
of MTA plus attitude of other union workers my ideas about unions has changed
completely. We have to find better ways to protect our workers without letting
them abuse the system.

~~~
anothergoogler
The article doesn't say anything about NYC or the MTA, did you even read it,
or are you replying to the words "pro-union" in the submission title?

~~~
yalph
Since when discussions on a HN thread are limited to the keyword on an
article? It seems like you are the one who did not understand the context of
the article. My comment is about relevancy of unions in our day. I apologize
if everyone else thinks my comment was off topic.

~~~
noobermin
Imagine criticizing coffee shops as a whole because you got bad coffee at a
starbucks. Is there something inherent to unions that make them generally bad?

BTW, the issues with the NY subway have little to do with the TWU and more to
do with mismanagement by Cuomo.

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dmix
Not surprising... the opposite would be the exception, this is pretty much the
rule in 2018.

~~~
opencl
The US auto industry still has a pretty significant union presence, especially
the US-based companies that aren't Tesla. The UAW has ~430k members[1] out of
the ~950k total US auto manufacturing workforce[2].

Most of the foreign companies building cars in the US are quite anti-union
though. Somewhat ironically the building that is currently Tesla's factory
used to be Toyota's only unionized factory.

[1] [https://uaw.org/uaw-grows-almost-15000-new-
members-2017-7500...](https://uaw.org/uaw-grows-almost-15000-new-
members-2017-75000-new-members-since-2009/)

[2]
[https://www.bls.gov/iag/tgs/iagauto.htm](https://www.bls.gov/iag/tgs/iagauto.htm)

~~~
masonic

      Toyota's only unionized factory
    

To my knowledge, _every_ Toyota factory in Japan is unionized.

~~~
opencl
Yes, I should have been more specific. Only unionized factory in the US.

Japan and Germany both have heavily unionized domestic auto manufacturing
workforces, it's just their factories in the US that don't.

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java_script
If I were a shareholder I'd advise Elon to do something truly epic to distract
from this. Like what if instead of the rainbow road easter egg they added a
bacon road?

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erikpukinskis
Shitty if true.

If Tesla is anti-union, and they have every right to be, they can just fire
people who strike. Firing them before they strike is not ok.

~~~
394549
> If Tesla is anti-union... they can just fire people who strike.

I'm not so sure, it seems like they can't in many circumstances:

[https://blogs.findlaw.com/law_and_life/2014/10/can-you-be-
fi...](https://blogs.findlaw.com/law_and_life/2014/10/can-you-be-fired-for-
going-on-strike.html)

~~~
erikpukinskis
Weird. So I could get a job and then just hang out outside “striking” and not
work and still get paid and they can never fire me?

I don’t understand the laws here.

~~~
394549
> Weird. So I could get a job and then just hang out outside “striking” and
> not work and still get paid and they can never fire me?

Striking workers don't get paid by the employer while they're striking. That's
why unions have "strike funds" \-- to keep striking members financially
solvent while they strike.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strike_pay](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strike_pay)

> I don’t understand the laws here.

They're meant to protect the rights of employees to strike. If companies were
allowed to fire union members just because they're participate in union
activities (like strikes), it'd be trivial for management to break union power
for the low wage/low skill jobs that most need unions.

~~~
erikpukinskis
I see. Well in that case it seems like Tesla can just wait for a strike, hire
more workers to replace the ones who are striking while keeping the strikers
on the books without pay, and then if the strikers ask for their shifts back,
just phase them in, while also doing rolling layoffs to get rid of unnecessary
workers (strikers or new hires depending on who has the lowest performance).

Then unions could defeat this by doing rhythmic striking, but I think Tesla
might be in their rights to fire a worker who is repeatedly striking in a
systematic way to interfere with Tesla’s hiring.

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0max
I bet you could get sacked from Tesla for even mentioning the Union of Myanmar

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rjplatte
"Speaking Out" against standard practice, and getting the ear of a reporter
because your company makes headlines more often. Yay.

