
The forbidden railway: Vienna - Pyongyang (2008) - tobiasbischoff
http://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.de/2008/04/how-everything-began.html?m=0
======
lmm
I went London-Shanghai (and ultimately Osaka) last year; one of the most
affecting parts of that journey was going through the deserts of Kazakhstan
and north-west China (e.g.
<https://www.cliché.net/photos/2012-04-02%20Trip/SDC16011.JPG> and
<https://www.cliché.net/photos/2012-04-02%20Trip/SDC16084.JPG> \- hosted on my
home connection so will be slow), which you miss by staying on the trans-
siberian line. It's also a chance to see a really different side of China (as
a European it's easy to imagine China will all be the same, being a single
country, but of course it's as big and varied as, well, Europe) - and the
route I took goes right past Baikonur, so there's always the chance of a
rocket launch.

It's no good for going to North Korea (you finish in China, and as noted the
line Beijing-Pyongyang is closed to tourists), but if you were just thinking
of a big rail trip like the trans-siberian, have a look at the route via
Kazakhstan too.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
I took a train from Shanghai to Urumuqi once, took 2 and a half days; China is
just freaking big.

Beijing Pyongyang is/was open to tourists at least a few years ago, they put
you in a special car while everyone else gets off somewhere in Liaoning.

~~~
theorm
The train Beijing-Pyongyang is still running indeed. I took it half a year
ago.

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mercuryrising
Wow that was really cool. It's too bad the pictures started breaking when he
was documenting his time in North Korea, all of those would be really
interesting to see.

Odd how easy it was for them to get in. Flash a couple passports, visas, and
fake like you like the great leader and you're in.

He commented that the route he took is no longer an option for tourists - not
that it really was in the beginning, but the travel agency where he bought his
tickets was informed that that one was no longer available. He said that when
asked who recommended the tickets and where he found them, he responded with
"we found them and bought them". I wonder how the travel agency got involved.
(After reading more - he contacted the travel agency late enough for them not
to alter the travel plans, but soon enough to talk to the Koreans to set up a
guide).

I never knew how isolated South Korea was because of North Korea (no road/rail
transport to the rest of the world).

That was pretty cool, and ridiculously in depth.

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veb
I saw this posted in the comments on another thread and spent hours reading
the whole thing -- epic journey, and I absolutely adored the photographs of
North Korea.

It looks surprisingly beautiful, in its own way.

------
adrianm
I really had no idea how horrible the humanitarian crisis in North Korea
really was until I began reading about it yesterday after checking out the
blog post that was on the front page here. I feel ashamed I have been ignorant
for so long.

In summary of what I've learned, it's generally accepted that there are around
200,000 people kept in active concentration camps [1]. There are two types of
camps: those for political prisoners (and those related to suspected
defectors, because you're guilty by association with the convicted individual)
held until they die, and re-education camps for "minor" offenses. Regardless
of the prisoner classification, both are subject to a similarly deplorable
fate.

Conditions are eerily reminiscent of concentration camps operated by Nazi
Germany and Imperial Japan.

This includes: 1) Constant threat of public execution at the whims of guards.
2) Deplorable conditions including: lack of suitable sleeping areas, lack of
general access to toilets except on a twice daily basis. 3) Malnutrition.
Amnesty reports 40% of inmates die due to malnutrition. Highly rationed diet
consisting of 100 grams of corn (if you're not being punished) and salt soup.
Finding and eating rats raw is generally considered a blessing, but at the
risk of punishment by guards. 4) Torturing prisoners is commonplace. Without
going into the gory details, suffice it to say, it is horrible. 5) Human
experimentation performed on prisoners a la Dr. Mengele. 6) Infanticide of
babies born in captivity.

I remember when I first learned about the Holocaust in school and wondered how
in the hell did the world stand by for so long while these atrocities were
being committed? Now I understand.

When you are, by pure randomness, lucky enough to be living in a part of the
world where these horrible acts are distant enough to barely register on the
press radar, reading about these things do seem unfathomable, almost fake.

Most of what I've heard about North Korea in the past has focused on their
bizarre cult of personality and generally bizarre culture. As comical as North
Korea is made out to be in much of the internet, there is a serious
humanitarian crisis ongoing. Given that the Korean War ended in 1953, the
situation has perpetuated for sixty years now.

If the statistic of six million Jews murdered during the Holocaust shocks and
disgusts you, I shudder to think about what we shall uncover after the North
Korean dictatorship falls (if it ever does at this point if the situation
continues) and their dark history finally becomes public knowledge. It really
makes me feel nauseous to think that we always have to wait until after the
atrocities end to learn from them.

Is there anything we can do? I'm sure there is, I just don't know what. Ugh.

[1] Amnesty International Media Briefing on North Korean Prison Camps
[http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/ASA24/001/2011/en/26...](http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/ASA24/001/2011/en/2671e54f-1cd1-46c1-96f1-6a463efa6f65/asa240012011en.pdf)

~~~
Sulfolobus
This is why I'm getting a bit annoyed with all the "visiting North Korea"
stuff. You are directly funding the regime.

~~~
ars
You are, but ignoring things and people never visiting would be worse.

~~~
wahnfrieden
The people visiting only see staged theatrics, it doesn't do a whole lot of
good.

~~~
ars
I don't know - I certainly found out a lot about North Korea from those
visits. I assume you did too.

------
dirtyaura
Awesome travel diary. I took Trans-Mongolian from Moscow to Beijing with my
friends in 2002 and it was quite a trip. I can just imagine how did the OP
feel when they crossed North Korean border. Based on the photos he took,
country-side dwellings in North Korea are of better quality than my impression
was.

------
contingencies
If you are curious about North Korea, just look across the border from China.
You can see plenty. Near the town of Changbaishan (and slightly west of there)
is the best area. You're only a few meters across the river, and you can see
everything, even a full scale city. If you're a train nut, you can even
satisfy your curiosity by seeing a failed short-haul train the North Koreans
took years to build. There's no need to go there and fund them.

------
rayiner
That was great. I fricking love trains.

------
julianpye
Lovely story! If the author ever wants to apply to YC, he has a perfect answer
for the 'hack a system in real life question' :)

------
alenart
Amazing story, from beginning to end - the bucolic DPRK countryside hides such
dark mysteries.

------
Heliosmaster
such an amazing story

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OGinparadise
It's great as long as you know you are not getting a full picture. You see
what _they_ want you to see, if you think any different you are delusional. If
you approach anyone on the street, you will most likely get them in trouble
and it's very unlikely for them to tell the truth (even "the veggies are kinda
brownish" is subversion and by now they have seen what happens to their
"subversive" neighbors and maybe family members).

Not to mention that almost all of them have been born and raised in that
system, they know no better and are fed daily propaganda to make them believe
that the outside world is much worst. I'd bet that most North Koreans would
pass a lie detectors test with flying colors when saying that they love their
current system.

~~~
dmm
History will judge us very harshly for what we have all allowed to happen in
north korea. Everyone should see Adrian Hong's speech:
<http://www.c-spanvideo.org/clip/4170683>

He's co-founded a NGO that helps escapees from dprk.

One challenge I always have when I speak about North Korea is I run out of
adjectives for how bad things are. And many of you that follow policy or human
rights situations oftentimes get jaded with numbers,”

“It’s very easy for us to write off bad things because we just assume these
are bad things that happen ‘over there,’ and many times they don’t necessarily
affect us. And the challenge with North Korea in particular is that things are
so bad on such a scale and scope that it sounds fake. It sounds unfathomable,
it’s impossible to really comprehend.”

~~~
derleth
> History will judge us very harshly for what we have all allowed to happen in
> north korea.

Is there any way of stopping it short of a bloody, protracted war?

~~~
mjn
The proximity of populated areas of South Korea, and the touchiness of China
over intervention in the area, are particular problems. If it weren't for
those, the U.S. would probably have bombed the North at one point or another,
especially once the nuclear tests gave a plausible excuse to do so. If
anything there was a better argument for attacking North Korea than for its
fellow "axis of evil" member Iraq (on either humanitarian or "WMD" grounds),
but Iraq was a much easier target. It wasn't really for any lack of interest
on the U.S.'s part: for a few years, very pro-intervention neoconservatives
had a strong role in the Bush administration's defense policy, and they
investigated North Korea options, but presumably couldn't arrive at one.

~~~
kalleboo
But what strategic interest does the US have in North Korea? To get closer to
China?

