
Who Killed Ötzi the Iceman? Clues Emerge - gerbilly
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/26/world/europe/bolzano-italy-iceman-south-tyrol-museum-of-archaeology.html
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woogiewonka
I wonder if Otzi was the instigator in the described conflict. The piece
describes him as someone who was not a laborer but did plenty of walking. I
can imagine a vagabond type individual traveling place to place taking his
pickings from the weaker groups (or perhaps stealing and stabbing in the
process seeing how he had little upper body strength but carried a dagger).
His clothing is made of multiple furs of multiple species yet he doesn't have
a finished bow? I mean, it's possible he was an excellent trapper and caught
all them animals OR did he take his possessions elsewhere? I can just picture
him coming up on a small village, stealing some stuff and stabbing the
individual who confronted him, then retreating back into the mountains. Upon
discovery of a crime, a more practiced village member tracks the villain into
the mountains and without so much as a flinch pierces him in the back from a
distance far off.

~~~
INTPenis
I love all the speculation in this thread so I thought I'd just chime in and
say blood from four different people has reportedly been found on his weapons.
I believe both axe and arrow heads.

This was on HN a few weeks back but I couldn't find that particular article,
instead I found one on NatGeo[1] from 2003 saying the same thing.

1\.
[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/10/1030_031030_...](http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/10/1030_031030_icemandeath.html)

~~~
Alex3917
> blood from four different people has reportedly been found on his weapons.

This article doesn't mention it, but he was also carrying a birch polypore,
which is a styptic.

~~~
INTPenis
That's very cool. 45 years old in good shape in those days must have been a
status symbol in itself. 45 years today is pretty wise already but back then
I'm sure your average wandering 45 year old knew basic field medical
techniques just to stay alive.

~~~
foldr
Not necessarily. A lot of people died young, which lowered the average
lifespan considerably, but once you got through your childhood and teens, your
chances of living to an old age were reasonably high.

~~~
Nomentatus
Actually, take away infant mortality (and maybe even not) and their lifespans
exceed ours on average. Agriculture doesn't provide the same level of
nutrition, no large groups to spread disease, etc.

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berberous
After reading the article, I was curious about all the objects they mentioned
he had carried. This site has descriptions and pictures of each:

[http://www.iceman.it/en/equipment/](http://www.iceman.it/en/equipment/)

Very interesting.

~~~
dmix
Wow, some of that stuff is in great condition. The axe is definately the most
interesting... the only surviving one of it's kind even though it was a status
symbol often buried with bodies of important people. And it's 99% copper from
a body from the Copper Age!

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simonhn
The museum in Bolzano, Italy where Ötzi is held is well worth a visit and the
items found with the body mentioned in this article are also on display with
theories about their use and significance:
[http://www.iceman.it/](http://www.iceman.it/)

~~~
ziotom78
I agree, I think this is one of the best museums I've ever visited! Other more
famous museums (e.g., El Prado in Madrid) overwhelm visitors with a lot of
stuff presented in a quasi-random order. On the other hand, this one is
extremely well-thought, with a good use of multimedia and clear explanations
provided along the path.

Museum's website: [http://www.iceman.it/en/](http://www.iceman.it/en/)

------
xutopia
If this fascinates you I recommend you read
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Better_Angels_of_Our_Natur...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Better_Angels_of_Our_Nature).
It's a book that talks about violence in history. Ötzi is mentioned and so are
a few others.

~~~
linuxkerneldev
Steven Pinker's assertions in TBAOON are nice and intellectually attractive
but ultimately, difficult to prove or disprove. Naseem Taleb had quite a
strong reaction to it.

" "Pinker doesn’t have a clear idea of the difference between science and
journalism, or the one between rigorous empiricism and anecdotal statements.
Science is not about making claims about a sample, but using a sample to make
general claims and discuss properties that apply outside the sample. "

Further here: [https://medium.com/incerto/the-intellectual-yet-
idiot-13211e...](https://medium.com/incerto/the-intellectual-yet-
idiot-13211e2d0577#.mjjzuif7b)

Since at least a bit of that seemed like a personal attack on Pinker, that was
then followed by personal attacks on Taleb by Pinker. He even wrote a quora
post on it describing it as "The paper by Taleb that I saw was a mess: sloppy,
inaccurate, and incoherent."

[https://www.quora.com/Is-Nassim-Talebs-criticism-of-
Steven-P...](https://www.quora.com/Is-Nassim-Talebs-criticism-of-Steven-
Pinkers-work-fair)

I think our recent history with Trump, and the increasing friction with China
suggest that perhaps the celebration of Pinker's ideas was a bit premature. As
Taleb has shown us, a long period of peace doesn't mean that violence is
declining or that we can presume that it will never reoccur with the magnitude
and intensity we saw during earlier periods.

~~~
eyko
> I think our recent history with Trump, and the increasing friction with
> China suggest that perhaps the celebration of Pinker's ideas was a bit
> premature. As Taleb has shown us, a long period of peace doesn't mean that
> violence is declining or that we can presume that it will never reoccur with
> the magnitude and intensity we saw during earlier periods.

I highly doubt the increasing friction between the USA and China (and the rest
of the world to be honest) is leading to any sort of third world war so I'm
confident that a tendency to violence does in fact decrease in certain
societies.

~~~
linuxkerneldev
> I'm confident that a tendency to violence does in fact decrease in certain
> societies.

Could you elaborate on which certain societies you mean? Thanks.

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hn_throwaway_99
Every time I read stories like this, I still am amazed at modern science. A
man is killed thousands of years ago, but we can still deduce with fairly
reasonable certainty the circumstances of his death, and all sorts of facts
about him. Fascinating!

~~~
hutzlibu
Or ... we could be completely wrong and don't know it.

(But yes, the possibilities of modern science are amazing)

------
dannylandau
Glad to see this piece on HN. Very fascinating.

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Jabanga
Otzi looks remarkably similar to Kris Kristofferson

[http://www.writeups.org/wp-content/uploads/Abraham-
Whistler-...](http://www.writeups.org/wp-content/uploads/Abraham-Whistler-
Blade-movie-Kris-Kristofferson-a.jpg)

I wonder if this is an indication that modern people from Scandinavia, where
half of Kristofferson's ancestors are from, are more similar to older European
populations, while the European South and Centre saw more change through
migrations.

~~~
zumu
Otzi is a member of haplogroup G[1], which is fairly rare in Europe,
especially Scandinavia, while more common in the Caucasus and near east.

1:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRXiwWpmSbs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRXiwWpmSbs)

------
srinivaskag
Where are mummies of other villagers? Everyone of the villagers should also be
preserved as icy mummies in the same region. Right?

~~~
simonh
He wasn’t found is the remains of a village, but at a solo camp site far up in
the mountains. He was killed there and his body was covered in snow and ice
soon after, which preserved it.

Analysis of his stomach contents gives evidence that he visited a village down
in the valley where it would be warmer and had a meal there, because semi-
digested food in his stomach is consistent with the sort of food you’d
normally only have access to in that kind of environment. I think that's
mainly from pollen analysis.

It would be very unusual to find an entire village and it’s population
entombed in ice. They would all have to die at the same time (nobody left to
bury the bodies) and their bodies be left exposed and undisturbed to be
frozen. Usually when someone dies the rest of the population would bury them,
but in this case because he was killed and abandoned the body was left in a
situation where it could be naturally preserved.

