
Europe Learned to Fear China - jseliger
https://www.politico.eu/blogs/the-coming-wars/2019/04/how-europe-learned-to-fear-china/
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kashprime
The author, Bruno Macaes, is an unusually astute observer with his own book
"Dawn of Eurasia" that covers this topic at length. He's from Portugal, a
smaller recovering economy with a lot at stake in the health of EU. I find his
Twitter feed very informative on this topic, and European policy makers would
do well to heed his advice.

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aussiegreenie
There is an old diplomatic saying, "Russia is never as strong as it looks and
Russia is never as weak as it looks". China is the same.

China is a large, poor country with an aging population. It is a badly run
dictatorship that is more likely to return to warlordism than become a world
power.

Australia and Canada are the primary targets for Chinese interference. Both
are used for money laundering. Uncle Xi is destroying the little political
legitimacy from growing the economy. The social credit system will further
undermine the ability of China to move from a source of cheap labour to a more
advanced economy.

China 2020 = Japan 1985.

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nopinsight
This post greatly underestimates China. And China is _already_ a world power.

Its economic dynamism distinguishes it from Russia. Its size and military
independence make it different from Japan.

A more apt comparison might be merged Korea multiplied by 15.

That is a force that cannot be dismissed.

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ginko
It's still boggling my mind that Germany allowed KUKA to be sold to China.

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LifeLiverTransp
To be honest, i expect a lot of robot producers to be sold off for the same
reason. Robots - as they are produced now are a dead end. The reason beeing
the expected compatability to legacy software and programmability by low skill
labour. Robotsystems, are softwarewise for a large part - still stuck in the
90s, pre object-orientation.

So to sell of kuka, was a smart move by the shareholders, because like most
tradrobot producers, kuka had peaked. Industry 4.0 and lots of other
Innovation (NN-driven self optimization, etc.) simply will and can not happen
with what is sold today. Most robot systems are little, bug-riddled walled in
gardens, while the industry of factory automation, actually needs a steam like
system to provide cheap, reliable modules.

And when it will happen, giants like google and amazon are actually positioned
pretty well to take over the whole sector. They have the tech, they have the
talent, and they even might get the chance to stripmine a whole industry for
the core-knowledge, by being the cheapest and best robot producer out there.

This industry is like the paper roadmap industry waiting for the
[https://www.google.com/maps](https://www.google.com/maps) to be registered.
Its ripe for the taking. If you look carefully, several companys have been
gobbled up there already in preparation, the only thing holding back advances
beeing national governments afraid of jobloss.

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thesumofall
Aren’t there similar stories of US states courting Chinese investments that
are not necessarily in the “interest” of the federal government? Believe I’ve
read a couple of stories here on HN.

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im3w1l
The article talks about economics but that is not the only part. In isolation
it wouldn't necessarily be a problem.

The other component is that China is a dictatorship that has an ambition for
worldwide dominance. They are targeting their critics abroad. Uighurs,
Tibetans, ethnic Chinese that criticize the regime. All face espionage and
harassment from Chinese operatives. Even if they don't live in China and are
not even citizens anymore.

China is telling foreign companies how their maps are supposed to look like -
Taiwan should be shown as Chinese.

There was recently a belief that China would "automatically" become a
democracy once they became more prosperous. Dictatorship and wealth were a
contradiction, so people believed. It is now becoming obvious to everyone that
the west fell for it's own propaganda in that regard.

~~~
esilver
You highlight an important point. China is an aspiring regional and global
hegemon and the Europeans are learning what that might mean for them
materially and otherwise.

I don’t doubt the United States could hold its own in a rebalanced
international order but I’m less optimistic about the Europeans and even less
so about our allies in East Asia.

~~~
joejerryronnie
It’s really going to be a cold war all over again, with the US and China
carving up the world into their spheres of influence. This very likely will
lead to the usual support of “enemy of my enemy” strongmen, proxy wars, arms
races, and significant unintended consequences. We’re already seeing this
happen with China’s Belt & Road initiative and military modernization. A major
US response will not be far behind.

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Leary
The fact that Trump is threatening the EU with $11 billion in tariffs pushed
the EU together with China [1].

[1] [https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-china-summit-result-
assis...](https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-china-summit-result-assist-
donald-trump/)

~~~
NicoJuicy
Trump is temporary.

Europe knows it, China knows it.

Trump stands "alone", in the white House and internationally.

Wait the day he is President no more, his cookie will crumble. His few
loyalist will disappoint.

~~~
LifeLiverTransp
I wouldnt bet on this. The disenfranchised who voted for trump are getting
more and they are there to stay. Trump may be the first of a series of "small"
emperors, and the mildest as still struggling with institutions and a not
rewritten constitution.

~~~
NicoJuicy
Are your sure about this? Trump had been a fraud from the start.

"The Apprentice" is literally produced by him. He has gone broke ( stock
market) and everything seems to be way too shady.

He just rents out his Trump name, as a real estate agent. Buildings are owned
by others.

The only thing is the Trump tower, seemed to be a lucky shot with Daddy's
money and the first thing he did that succeeded.

Fyi, we'll see afterwards if he succeeded as president.

We'll only know for sure when his IRS is released. If he's smart, not
releasing them was a smart move for misdirecting everyone. Because it will get
released one way or another.

We'll see then.

