

Video: Disappearing Car Doors - mattholling
http://vidergy.com/2011/05/disappearing-car-doors-i-want-these-on-every-car/

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JoeAltmaier
I imagine its a fair-weather solution. Raining? Everybody gets wet when
anybody gets in or out. Kids in the back? They scatter before you can get out.
How about arm rests? My Mom is 82, and uses the door to help get in and out.
Any controls on the door? How would that work? Wiring would have to be
creative. And forget about map pockets.

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dandelany
All great points. Not to mention the additional cost of the hardware, and
extra moving parts which will inevitably require maintenance that cannot be
done by your average mechanic.

All of this for a solution which provides zero-to-marginal benefits over a
normal car door. I don't understand the appeal. It seems to me that almost
every industrial designer I've ever met has a dream of re-inventing the
world's commonly used objects (doors, umbrellas, mousetraps, etc.) - an
obsession so strong that they usually ignore the object's common use cases and
completely neglect cost-benefit analyses for the sake of cleverness.

~~~
jtheory
Well... many of the problems people are listing seem to apply to other door
styles as well (like a minivan's big sliding door, or a two-door car), and
actually aren't noticeable problems there.

It's a bit too easy to get caught up in shooting down ideas, I think.

Here's a shot at spinning it positively:

\- if you have kids in the back, no need to worry they're going to open their
own door while you're doing 75 on the highway (sure, there are child safety
locks... are you sure the little switch is where you think it is? If you ever
carry adults in the back, or once your kids notice there's an interesting
little switch there, it probably isn't)

\- tight parking spaces; you (or your child) will never ding another car again
while opening a door! I'm also frequently in super-narrow parking garage
spaces, where it can take some creative gymnastics to squeeze through the
door, particularly because I have to get a baby from a rear-facing carseat in
the back of a 2-door hatchback That highlight in the video looked pretty
appealing to me -- this is a frequent annoyance. I also have a nice little
dent on my own door (the only dent on the car...) where someone banged my door
with theirs in a parking lot, and left without leaving a note. These are
pretty common use cases.

\- Raining? Zing open the big door (and pop open a big umbrella or two) and
let everyone get out at the same time, quickly and easily, helping each other
without dodging around four large wet pieces of metal jutting out of the side
of the car -- you can even hop out of the back seat to help your grandma out
of the front without a big, wet, dirty door in between you.

I'm not sure I want these doors -- to be sure, there'd be a price premium, and
there may be other downsides I haven't seen yet -- but I'd consider it, with
or without a map pocket (er, they could have one with a closing lid, I
suppose).

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JoeAltmaier
...windy? Open the door just a little and squeeze out without the entire car
contents blowing into Kentucky? No way. Grandma likes to go anywhere alone?
Nope, unless she can enlist a random stranger to hoist her out. Car battery
dead? Maybe the door opens, no way it will close. Everybody doesn't have this
cool door? You still get door dents just the same. And again, raining? Better
have a mop and bucket to clean the rear seat when the kids take 2 minutes to
get unbuckled, find their umbrella, open it INSIDE the car, struggle to close
it again, finally get it closed, get out of the car, forgot their lunchbox...

~~~
jtheory
You're making my point for me. You can spin it only negatively if you choose
to do so, but it's not hard to find good points.

In your complaints here, it's pretty clear you aren't even trying to sort out
a reasoned view at all.

I mean, look at these: why would more blow out of a car with a sliding door
than, say, a minivan with a (much larger) sliding door? Why wouldn't Grandma
be unable to use grips at the top & side of the door (or: maybe cars targeting
aged drivers don't need to switch to this kind of door? There are plenty of
other target markets)? Why would the door be uncloseable with a dead battery
(can't we assume it would be counterweighted or on springs, to minimize motor
requirements)? About door dents: if there were any significant number of these
doors around, my own car would be that much less likely to be dented -- plus,
I'm not keen on denting _other_ people's doors. For the whole final scenario
with kids in the rain -- er... just don't open your door until the kids are
ready. You're sitting right there, and you control the door (unlike if they
have their own door in the back).

But what's the impulse that's driving you & other commenters to just knock
down the idea as quickly as possible, rather than explore it?

It's not my idea; I don't have any stake in the game, but if I notice problems
with someone else's idea, my first thought is "are there ways to fix that, and
are you implementing these solutions".

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stretchwithme
Have you ever had a power window not close properly or at all? Or fail to
open? And you were still able to drive away, right?

Well, we can complicate that for you.

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puls
8,000 BMW Z1s were made with this type of door:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_Z1>

Wikipedia:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sliding_door_(vehicle)#Vertical...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sliding_door_\(vehicle\)#Vertical_doors)

~~~
jtheory
Purchasers of the Z1 probably wouldn't be worrying about the problems of added
moving parts requiring more (or more expensive) maintanance.

But this (from the wiki page) was interesting:

"The windows may be operated independently of the doors, although they do
retract automatically if the door is lowered. Both the window and door are
driven by electric motors through toothed rubber belts and may be moved
manually in an emergency.[6]"

That could apply to any installation of this kind of door, actually -- if your
battery is dead, you have to use a keyhole to unlock the door, then you could
manually push down the window & then door structure. If they are well counter-
balanced with weights or springs, etc. (as they should be to avoid wasting
energy in normal use) and the motor doesn't cause much drag, that would be a
bit awkward-looking, but not too hard.

~~~
jnhnum1
Not true - in general, the reason you can't push down car windows is because
they're driven via a worm gear to increase the force exerted by the motor, but
you can't back-drive a worm gear.

~~~
jtheory
I was pointing out that it was interesting that in the car that was actually
produced with this type of door, they used belts (instead of the worm gear
you're talking about) so that the door could be manually opened.

This is probably the approach that any other mass-produced version of this
door would take as well -- avoiding the worm gear so that the window & door
could be manually moved if needed.

That addresses the main concerns people had.

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iandanforth
Anyone know a rule of thumb to equate number of moving parts to failure rate?
I've always assumed a positive correlation but don't have any numbers to back
that up.

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brk
This is cool, it's been around for about 10 years. I seem to recall there was
crash safety and leakage issues with this setup.

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noonespecial
So, umm, how do I get in if the battery is dead to open the hood and jump the
car?

~~~
stretchwithme
Good question. Can't put a lever on the outside without making it likelier
that criminals can open your hood. You can't do it with your remote.

Maybe there'll be a place to use your key that lets gravity take the door out
of the way.

~~~
noonespecial
But it looks like the window has to roll down first to avoid damage. It looks
to me like out of power, out of luck.

~~~
stretchwithme
Damn. I'll put a stop to my patent application.

I guess they'll just have to put a lock on the hood that unlocks with your
key.

~~~
jtheory
Ah, wait, you did actually mean "hood" above.

Nah, they need to solve the door problem, regardless (so the hood latch can be
in the car). It's not just a question of opening the hood; you also have to
open the door anyway, unless you want to replace the battery when a simple
jump would do. (And electrical failures more serious than a dead battery
happen as well on occasion...)

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joshu
Blog spam. Why isn't this a direct link?

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tahu
Nice idea, but it is a failure in safety - imagine a side impact..

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rapcal
Video posted on youtube on september 2007, and the domain registered that same
year.

Here's the horrible website: <http://www.disappearing-car-door.com/>

And Flickr: <http://www.flickr.com/photos/disappearing-car-door/>

Has to be a hoax...

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kefs
More info:

[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-4491...](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-4491..).

If you scroll down you'll find the "consultant for the marketing" MIGHTYTHOR
who responds to some questions. Funny that it was exactly today, last year,
that he replied.

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Vitaly
convenience - yes, safety - not so much. I wouldn't want the back sit with the
kids to be open while I'm still in the car. I want to personally open it while
standing outside.

