
Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other funds won’t touch - smalera
https://marker.medium.com/the-companies-venture-capital-isnt-allowed-to-invest-in-a59c4cdd5ae
======
LyndsySimon
I’ve mentioned this before, but the firearms industry has a similar issue,
caused by the same clauses. Local gun stores often pay very high fees for
credit card processing relative to other retail stores - and unlike gambling
and pornography, this doesn’t seem to be supported by a higher chargeback rate
as best I can tell. They’ve just been “lumped in” because of the regulated
nature of some of their products.

I say “some of”, because things like magazines and accessories are usually
included in the “prohibited goods and services” clauses, even though they are
typical subject to no specific regulation at either the state or federal
level. It’s honestly kind of weird to me.

~~~
soapboxrocket
What I find so interesting about Vice Ventures is how she has drawn a hard
line on the weapons industry.

~~~
curiousgal
If it's sex or drugs or any sort of addiction, the user is victim. With
weapons, other people are the victim.

~~~
nokcha
>If it's sex or drugs or any sort of addiction, the user is victim. With
weapons, other people are the victim.

At least in the US, a majority of deaths by firearm are suicides. And as for
potentially addictive drugs (e.g., alcohol), the user can cause great harm to
other people, as in drunk driving.

~~~
ummwhat
No. A plurality of the gun deaths are suicide (%33). Accidents and homicide
add up to more.

~~~
danShumway
I think you have your stats reversed.

Fivethirtyeight says about 2/3 of gun deaths are suicides. Around 1/3 are
homicides. A surprisingly small percentage (to me) are classified as
accidents.[0]

[0]: [https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/gun-
deaths/](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/gun-deaths/)

~~~
AngryData
Im not entirely surprised accidents are low, the places with the most guns
have strong gun culture who have learned and put into practice gun safety from
a young age. Many of the older folks have taken shooting classes or done
shooting sport while in school, many of the younger generation have taken
hunter safety courses, and of course military service people throughout the
entire time, and all would teach basic gun safety. You will be kicked off any
range for not being safe and most anyone who owns guns will very quickly
correct anybody not being safe.

The amount of people who know nothing about guns and never shot one under
proper supervision and then go out and purchase a firearm without researching
anything are extremely low, so accidents remain pretty low.

~~~
catalogia
Basic firearm safety instruction is part of it, and the other part is the
general mechanical reliability of firearms. Modern firearms, as a general
rule, will not fire themselves unless somebody or something interacts with
them. Basic firearm safety instruction is often a short dogmatic set of
rules[0] primarily focused on making sure people don't interact with the gun
in a way that makes it likely to go off unintended. These two factors work
together to keep people relatively safe from accidents around firearms most of
the time.

There are some guns for which the basic dogmatic instruction is probably
insufficient. Notably glocks; in some circles "glock" has become a verb,
wherein to "glock yourself" means to accidentally shoot yourself in the leg
with your glock while holstering or upholstering it. More specialized training
can reduce the chances of this happening, but for this specific scenario and
some others like it, the standard basic safety instructions fall a bit short
in my opinion.

[0] One example: [http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/safe_sur/acts-tpto-
eng.ht...](http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/safe_sur/acts-tpto-eng.htm)
Other rulesets often have the same ideas worded in slightly different ways.

------
siruncledrew
I think the biggest win here is the marketing for Vice after putting together
this $25M fund. This is totally on-brand for them, regardless of how business-
viable these investments are. Plus, it’s not Vice’s own money they are playing
with (which is good for them given their profitability struggles as a parent
company).

My inclination is that VCs don’t particularly not-invest in successful “vice-
driven companies” due to their moral compass, but rather due to the financial
friction and PR risk-reward involved in doing so.

I feel like the article understates the point that, given the nature of vices,
if the business turns out to be doing substantial harm and a media shitstorm
hits, the VCs will absolutely be dragged into the mix and publicly shamed for
contributing to the problem. When Juul was going through it’s recent implosion
all the cigarette giants who were investors got name-dropped. When WeWork was
in the news, SoftBank’s name was being dragged right next to it. And the media
was sure to tie Uber articles to Saudi money.

Sure, some investments are bound to not work out for VC firms, but nobody
wants to trash their firm’s legacy and reputation over blowback from the
fickle beast that is public opinion on the internet and word of mouth.

There is still value in these vice industries and proper federal regulations
still need to be figured out for things like Cannabis companies to operate
like ‘real’ businesses.

Not all “vice” companies are equal and I think it will still take time to
figure out to what level different types are socially acceptable and what
restrictions to put in place to keep the good/bad balance in check.

~~~
atdrummond
I don't think this is related to Vice media?

~~~
mmahemoff
Don't think so, but it won't stop some people using it as an opportunity to
claim Vice Media has a conflict of interest.

------
gatherhunterer
There are well-established benefits of CBD use in some patients covering a
wide variety of symptoms, but pushing skin care pseudoscience is wrong.
Isolated evidence like that of anti-inflammatory effects is not the same as an
extensive clinical trial. This is why we need an actual healthcare system: to
allow people to see doctors rather than falling victim to the junk CBD
products that this person is excited to fund.

~~~
cwkoss
Recess's CBD sparkling water sounds kind of cool, but its $5 a can! Yikes,
that's one hell of a markup. I'd try it at half the price, and might be a
customer at 1/3 the price, but $30/6pk is pretty wild.

Each can contains 10mg of broad spectrum hemp extract: high quality broad
spectrum CBD oils are $0.80 for 10mg CBD (10mg of broad spectrum oil means the
CBD content probably 5mg+/-3). Price compare with TonicVibes's 1500mg CBD
(from whole plant extract) for $120 - best quality CBD oils I've found so far.

Even if the other herbs are extremely high quality as well, the margins on
this product are insane.

~~~
harryaka
CBD products in general are quite expensive, for example CBD extracts are
similarly priced to their THC counterparts. I assume this is in large part due
to marijuana prohibition laws. Prices will hopefully come down as those laws
are relaxed around the country and more players enter the market.

------
mtnGoat
the numbers tossed around in these articles always amuse me. I have worked
extensively in the adult industry and can guarantee its no where near $97B.
Print is dead, the internet and PPV in hotels and satellites bring in the
bacon and it's not much.

~~~
snark42
> guarantee its no where near $97B

Worldwide? What if you include brothels, strip clubs, "used" items (ie
panties, gamer girl bathwater,) etc.?

Here's the source for $97B, puts US at $10-12B -
[https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/things-are-
lo...](https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/things-are-looking-
americas-porn-industry-n289431)

~~~
mtnGoat
Yea, see I wouldn't include strip clubs, lingerie, etc. as porn, personally.
But if you add that back in, plus prostitution and all sex work, $97b is
attainable. I guess my view is slightly less encompassing then others'.

------
Ancalagon
Why is esports listed as a vice-venture?

~~~
AllanHoustonSt
It's the equivalent of sports gambling.

~~~
jobigoud
Are you also thinking of Fantasy Sports (virtual teams of real players) ?

I don't see how E-Sports is different from Chess.

~~~
AllanHoustonSt
People bet on chess as well, I have old colleagues who do it actively. That’d
fall under this VC’s purview as well.

I have hold no stigma against gambling, I used to gamble professionally. I
just think it’s important to acknowledge what is and isn’t gambling and to
acknowledge society and legislation generally have a stigma against it.

------
listenallyall
This idea is about 20 years old already: VICEX

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitium_Global_Fund](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitium_Global_Fund)

~~~
mike_d
VICEX is based on "sin" stocks. Casinos, tobacco, etc. already on the public
market.

This is venture funding for edgy products that traditional VCs might not
touch.

~~~
listenallyall
It's called VICE Ventures. Not EDGY Ventures. Anyway, she has 4 investments
and 3 are in beverages, 1 is in video games. Pretty far from "taboo" that the
parent article states in the headline. This is simply astroturf produced by a
PR firm.

------
low_common
Can someone paste the article here? There's a paywall for me.

------
Lerain
After closing the huge sign-up popup, dismissing the Medium-App-suggestion and
closing the cookie-banner I lost all interest in reading the article, which is
a shame.

I sometimes hate the internet.

At least the HN comments were insightful, unlike my rambling. Sorry about
that.

~~~
hunterloftis
Related to an HN article from earlier this week: you might consider trying the
Brave browser. With it, I didn't experience any of that.

~~~
buboard
it auto-closes sign-up popups and cookie prompts ?

~~~
hunterloftis
I just checked again (on mobile). It does show the sign-in prompt (was just
less obtrusive on desktop). It doesn't show app prompts or cookie prompts.

------
Roritharr
I find Unknown Fund more interesting:
[https://www.unknown.fund/](https://www.unknown.fund/)

~~~
dang
A thread about this is currently on the front page as well:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21538748](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21538748)

~~~
Roritharr
It wasn't at the time of me posting, I feared it to drown.

