

Spain threatened with trade blacklist for not passing SOPA style law - Hates_
http://torrentfreak.com/us-threatened-to-blacklist-spain-for-not-implementing-site-blocking-law-120105/

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nextparadigms
US seems a little too trigger-happy about putting trade sanctions on countries
these days. They are basically coercing everyone to do what they want _or
else_. And they wonder why the world likes USA less and less.

I don't think this will end well if this keeps up. Free trade is a
prerequisite for a wealthy society. Trade isolationism can only lead to less
wealth and more wars. Trade is probably the biggest factor in reducing
frequency of wars in the world throughout history. Without trade countries had
to invade each other to get the resources they needed.

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pavel_lishin
What happens when the US is no longer trading with anyone, AND continues
passing SOPA-style laws that hinder the internet?

Sounds more and more like a novel I read, once (name forgotten) where everyone
in America believes that China has perfected a firewall, where in reality it's
America that's trapped behind the firewall and cut off from the rest of the
world.

~~~
Symmetry
That would be Signal to Noise by Eric Nylund. Yeah, I've been thinking the
same thing recently.

~~~
pavel_lishin
Damn! I even googled Signal to Noise, but didn't search hard enough. I need to
pick up a copy of the book, I only own the sequel.

~~~
MrMatters
Was that a smaller plot point of the book or have I looked up the wrong one?

[http://www.amazon.com/Signal-Noise-Eric-S-
Nylund/dp/03807929...](http://www.amazon.com/Signal-Noise-Eric-S-
Nylund/dp/0380792923)

~~~
pavel_lishin
The Great Firewall was definitely a fairly minor plot point compared to
everything else.

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Eeko
This is sad for the rest of EU-nationals as well. Being in the trade- and
political union was supposed to protect us from such attacks and pressure
against our political sovereignity. "If we are part of a bigger entity, then
it's harder for the bullies to harass an individual nation." That's how the
Union was sold for many of us.

But right now, not only we face pressure from big foreign powers, but the
Union itself is moving towards greater centralization of power. Especially
financially.

This does not look good.

~~~
lutorm
The EU has done nothing but move towards greater centralization of power for
the past 20 years, if not longer. It's not exactly an institution heavily
anchored in democratic principles.

~~~
danmaz74
If by centralization you mean that more matters are decided at the European
level - well, that's the whole point of a Union, and what could prevent
"divide et impera" tactics against single states.

On the other hand, if the problem you see is that those matters which are
decided at the European level aren't decided in a democratic enough way, then
we should push for less power to intergovernmental bodies, more power to the
EU Parliament, and the creation of a European public opinion - the last thing
we can directly contribute to; we're doing it right now ;)

~~~
lutorm
I mean _both_ a push to centralize things that really should be left to the
countries _and_ a lack of democratic transparency. In Sweden, the debate since
back before the referendum in 1994 has been between a "it's better to be on
the inside to have influence" on the one side and "it doesn't matter because
you have no influence on the inside anyway" on the other. And in the meantime,
the lack of democratic transparency has just grown, not become less.

This lack of democracy was generally sold as "don't worry, the EU is just for
boring things you the people don't care about anyway, an in either case we
have a veto". But now the veto is gone and centralization spreads its
tentacles deeper and deeper into national affairs, so that's been a highly
disingenuous argument.

~~~
danmaz74
Exactly, what should be left to the states, and what to the EU? IP regulation,
for example, look to me like something that should definitely be euro-wide.

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mbrubeck
When people outside the US ask why they should care about US laws like SOPA,
this is the answer. Laws spread quickly from country to country via trade
agreements, copyright treaties, and other forms of influence.

~~~
nextparadigms
I think they know. They've seen America as a bearer of democracy for a long
time, and now it's losing that role model position, or worse yet, it keeps the
role model position, but it's just not a very democratic position anymore, and
everyone else starts following that or gets pressured into doing it. That's
what they fear.

I still think it's unbelievable how disproportionately dangerous the content
industry is to the rights of everyone in the world. I mean even if the US
Government itself set out to try to convince other countries to just be more
dictatorial so they can control their own people, they probably wouldn't be as
successful. But the content industry itself, with some manipulation of the US
Government, is managing to do that on what seems to be like a global scale.

And they even have the nerve to say that we should be more like Iran and China
regarding our Internet. They say that publicly and almost get away with it, as
they list the "benefits" of such a more authoritarian outcome.

~~~
ojbyrne
It's been a very long time since people outside the US have seen it as a
"bearer of democracy."

The USTR has long been a bully that pushes for trade terms advantageous to the
US, even if it tramples human rights.

~~~
nextparadigms
Well I guess that's true, but at least the perception was there, especially
since more than 10 years ago most people didn't have Internet and it was a lot
harder to find out about stuff like this. But now that positive perception is
fading away quickly, too.

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danmaz74
This shows one more reason why we need a united Europe: taken one at a time,
European countries are too little to be able to raise their voices.

~~~
nextparadigms
I agree, for some things it's better to be centralized, but not _too_
centralized. I wouldn't want it to make it _simpler_ for them to convince the
"leaders" of EU to adopt a law for the whole EU. The balance in EU needs to be
weighted very carefully between centralization and decentralization, and
centralization should have the minimum necessary power for the _actual_ good
of the Union. Too bad that knowing politicians, they always get carried away
and think more centralization = always better.

~~~
danmaz74
I agree with you that many things shouldn't be centralized. But a matter like
this (IP protection/freedom) looks to me like one of the things that should
definitely be decided at a European level, not last because this would help a
lot European startups with a more homogeneous market ;)

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pors
Don't forget to read the comments under the article, pure entertainment :)

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stuaxo
Drafting laws for other countries should really not be on, this just really
takes the piss.

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SODaniel
So the US uses it's influence to extort other nations in line with a fascist
state.. Nothing to see here, move along.

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rsanchez1
The government has too much power to do this, if they threaten another country
with sanctions if they don't pass a law. This kind of power should be taken
away from the executive and given to Congress. At least then we would see our
elected representatives debate it, instead of some commission appointed by the
President discussing it behind closed doors.

~~~
nextparadigms
It's the same way the Obama administration forced ACTA (some copyright related
treaty) on some countries, mostly in secret. And now they are trying to get it
passed in EU, too.

