

Test drive: DC to Boston in a Tesla Model S - ck2
http://money.cnn.com/2013/02/15/autos/tesla-model-s/

======
potatolicious
Not really a surprise - I don't think there was really any doubt about the
performance of the Tesla in normal weather. The NYC area right now is well
above freezing, approaching +10C in the daytime, nowhere near the deep freeze
that occurred during the NYT drive.

This still doesn't put to rest the expected (but somehow controversial)
concerns about lithium battery performance in cold weather. This concern IMO
needs to be put to rest if electrics want to break into the mainstream market.
Early adopters may be willing to plan judiciously around range and expected
weather, but I doubt mainstream consumers will be so forgiving.

Having a car of (somewhat) limited range lose a large chunk of its battery
just sitting overnight in a parking lot, in weather that is cold but hardly
unusual for the region, is a problem. That both on-board software and human
advisers seem poorly prepared to compensate for this is hardly a nail in
Tesla's coffin, but does need to be sorted out.

~~~
willvarfar
Teslas are big sellers in Norway and Switzerland, yet (and I travel there
often and even looked in Zurich showrooms) I don't hear them concerned.

~~~
eli
If you drove the distance from Boston to DC in Switzerland, you wouldn't be in
Switzerland anymore. The whole country fits inside New York State.

~~~
genwin
Switzerland is about the size of West Virginia.

~~~
stcredzero
And even slightly more rugged in terms of landscape.

------
alan_cx
I kinda sit in the middle. We need this technology, and people like Musk
pushing and investing in it. But equally, his attitude to criticism borders
childish and is very off putting.

What I don't get about any of this, from both sides, is that this is the early
days of the technology and its clearly work in progress. As usual, early
adopters pretty much know what they are investing in and expect and accept
that there are going to be problems and that the systems are far from perfect.
I mean, imagine a review of the first petrol engined cars, a few years after
initial conception. Musk should be constantly reminding people that problems
will happen, and this is the beginning of decades of development and
evolution, while motoring petrol head journalists need to stop trying to
pretend Musk is selling a perfect petrol car replacement, and that it is
indeed work in progress at a relatively early stage.

To me it is clear that the Tesla car is still problematic, but it is also
clear that its improving at a decent rate. In a decade, I imagine the whole
system will work flawlessly, ish.

Sadly all I see are two camps, Musk supporters and petrol heads almost raging
at each other like political parties, while Musk stirs it, resulting in non
partisan parties look on aghast, keeping wallets well closed.

As for the idea that this CNN review, just after a controversial one, would be
anything other than perfect is a delusion. Even if we bin foil hat theories
that CNN were soft on Tesla for what ever reason, Tesla would have done
everything to ensure this test went perfectly and contradicted the previous
one. What ever we are up to, if a test goes wrong, we would all make sure the
next test was an improvement. If not, then we have no business in any form of
development.

~~~
analog
The experience with Top Gear has probably influenced the reaction here. I
don't find it childish to strongly defend your product if you believe a
journalist has written a hack job on it.

~~~
taligent
>I don't find it childish to strongly defend your product if you believe a
journalist

Childish really is the best word for it.

It wasn't a measured, intelligent response. It came across as a "beat the
journalist up" because they posted a bad review. Reminds me of the sort of
thing you see bad restaurant owners do when they respond to diner's
complaints.

~~~
atacrawl
_It came across as a "beat the journalist up" because they posted a bad
review. Reminds me of the sort of thing you see bad restaurant owners do when
they respond to diner's complaints._

I disagree completely -- a better analogy would be that a restaurant owner
gets pissed off because the reviewer complains of a fly in his soup when
circuit cameras reveal this was never the case.

~~~
jlgreco
And then everybody rushes to the defense of the reviewer saying _"He was just
explaining what a fly in the soup would have been like!"_ and _"Yeah, but the
soup was cold and took to long to come out!"_

------
DigitalSea
Regardless of how much warmer the weather is than when Broder drove the car.
If Broder had charged the car completely instead of partially regardless of
the obvious drop in capacity in colder weather he still would have made it.
CNN have just proven the car is capable, cold weather aside nothing would be
much different here.

Are we forgetting the data from the NYT review clearly showed Broder driving
around in circles in a car park? The CNN reporter even said he got lost and
yet still made it with miles to spare in the batteries. When you consider the
amount of on-board power drawing computing functionality, sensors and logging
equipment on the Tesla 200+ miles is impressive.

If you're buying an electric car for driving 200+ miles in one go, an electric
car is certainly not for you. Tesla fills a niche of drivers who commute to
and from work, occasionally to meetings and maybe the airport but don't expect
luxury taxi service companies to start buying and driving Tesla electric cars
any time soon...

Quite personally I am sick of hearing about this whole situation. It's like
watching a primary school fight, lots of name calling and accusation slinging,
but no violence.

~~~
TwiztidK
> _Are we forgetting the data from the NYT review clearly showed Broder
> driving around in circles in a car park?_

It didn't. It showed him driving .6mi after exiting the highway but there is
no proof that he was driving around in circles in a parking lot.

~~~
DigitalSea
It might not prove he drove in circles in a parking lot, but you have to admit
there are discrepancies in the data that have not been explained fully by the
NYT editor that don't prove he didn't deliberately try and drain the battery
all for having the scoop review that tries and dispels Tesla's claims of
efficiency.

~~~
free652
There are a lot of claims that were not proven by Musk, like driving through
the downtown Manhattan.. When Lincoln Tunnel is nowhere close to Downtown..
(or properly Lower Manhattan)

Let's not start nitpicking, that stop was new for the reporter. He stopped
once on the different side of the highway (North bound) and on this side of
highway (South bound) the tesla station was in a completely different place.

So yea, it's very plausible that he was looking for it.

~~~
cube13
It was the northbound trip before the first charge. For the southbound trip,
the car was effectively dead on the tow truck(it didn't have enough charge to
disengage the parking break):

[http://jalopnik.com/towing-company-the-nyt-tesla-model-s-
was...](http://jalopnik.com/towing-company-the-nyt-tesla-model-s-was-dead-
when-it-196100064)

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Shank
It's worth pointing out that they're staying at the Milford SuperCharger quite
a lot longer than Elon's data showed NY times did. They're charging it a lot
more - and would even if it was too chilly out for the batteries to operate at
optimal discharge rate, they'd still be in the clear as a result.

This is more of a PR move - of course if you calculate it out it's possible -
the NY Times driver wasn't staying at SuperChargers long at all and missed
mark by 30mi.

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brudgers
Every time someone reads this, a kitten gets run over:

 _"Instead, I found myself maneuvering around slower cars. Now, I normally
spend most of my time on the New Jersey Turnpike out in the left lane going at
least 10 or 15 miles an hour faster than I was in the Model S. But sitting in
the middle lane, I was keeping up with traffic. I certainly didn't feel out of
place -- except for the fact that I wasn't burning any gasoline."_

It's supposed to be a performance car. A proper review should imply hoonage
and speeds likely to raise the author's insurance premiums. It shouldn't take
the Consumer Reports first impression of the Nissan Leaf as it's model. The
Tesla S is not a fucking Prius.

The only thing more dull than hypermiling stories are hypermiling videos, and
the only saving grace of this story is that we are spared those.

How Musk can act incredulous over assertions that the Model S is impractical
for US intercity travel while acknowleding one hour fuelings every three hours
is beyond me.

~~~
AlexeiSadeski
>How Musk can act incredulous over assertions that the Model S is impractical
for US intercity travel while acknowleding one hour fuelings every three hours
is beyond me.

Bingo.

~~~
makomk
One and a half hours if you actually charge to 100% rather than 90% - which
CNN presumably did since their charging stops lasted that long. (And that's
with top-of-the-range Superchargers; standard 240V dedicated car chargers are
basically useless for long trips unless you're planning to stop and leave the
car charging overnight.)

~~~
AlexeiSadeski
Woah... I'd assumed that the 1.5hr charge was with a standard charger...

Does using a "Supercharger" stress the battery?

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kylec
It's been significantly warmer the last few days than it supposedly was when
the first trip was done. Given that temperature has a big effect on the car's
energy, both the battery capacity and use of the heater, I'd say CNN's results
don't disprove the NYT article.

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spullara
This is totally bogus. CNN didn't even try and break it!

~~~
ishansharma
Yeah, they totally missed the circling in a parking part. And they did not
call any towing service as well, whose people were experts in high end cars.
:)

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doktrin
The constant back and forth on this issue (whether or not this luxury car can
in fact drive further than the supermarket) feels absurd.

I have to honestly say the Model S is very, very low on my list of cars-I-
wish-I-had. It screams conspicuous and vapid consumption to the nth degree.

~~~
bruceboughton
>> It screams conspicuous and vapid consumption to the nth degree.

Unlike, say, gas-guzzling SUVs.

~~~
doktrin
Gas-guzzling SUVs can serve a legitimate purpose justifying their price point.
Luxury electric cars don't, neither from a conservation, ecological or
(apparently) practical standpoint.

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Yaggo
"I was given battery-conservation advice at that time (turn off the cruise
control; _alternately slow down and speed up to take advantage of regenerative
braking_ ) that was later contradicted by other Tesla personnel."

The emphasized part makes no sense (vs. driving at constant speed), regen
braking is not perpetual motion machine. Technology reporter should know that.
Still amazing how such a foolish advice was given him by Tesla personnel.

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abat
This doesn't really mean anything if the temp is much warmer now.

~~~
stcredzero
I hope people keep doing this until the weather turns.

~~~
ics
The new Route 66– at the dawn of the 21st century, and the consumer electric
car... Yeah, maybe.

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niggler
Regardless of the "success" in the trip, the ultimate failure was in Musk's
petulant response.

~~~
slantyyz
Completely.

And I would say the secondary failure is in the advice given to Broder over
the phone.

Had the people on the phone just told him to charge longer, anything Broder
said about the extra time charging would have come across as a simple,
forgettable nitpick. It's extraordinary events like getting stranded that
readers remember.

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ZeroGravitas
_"a route 30 miles longer that avoided New York City, and it's battery
draining traffic congestion, altogether."_

I would have thought that slow, stop-start traffic is the ideal conditions for
an electric car, both in terms of driving pleasure and energy use compared
with traditional cars.

~~~
krschultz
He's talking about taking the Tappen Zee Bridge vs the George Washington
Bridge. I actually used to live in Groton CT (the terminus of both trips)
after graduating from the University of Delaware (the origin of both trips). I
would never ever use the GWB. The extra 30 miles is always worth it. You can
sit on the GWB and associated roads for 3-4 hours on a Friday night to go 10
miles. Not a good situation no matter what kind of car you have (and
ironically, there aren't a lot of gas stations in that area, definitely not
well marked).

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DanBC
Tesla just needs to buy a bunch of gopros for all the people in Norway and
Sweden who have Teslas.

Let's see Teslas commuting to work in arctic midnight.

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Cushman
If I were Tesla PR, I'd jump on this. Drop everything else about the article;
just throw a big party in DC in the morning, and ferry people to Boston for a
big party the same evening (with refreshments and entertainment available in
Newark and Milford, naturally). Get owners' clubs involved, make it an annual
pilgrimage.

Of course there may be a reason I'm not in PR.

~~~
DannoHung
If I were Tesla PR, I already orchestrated the entire thing, including
instructing the CNN crew to fully recharge at every station and not stop
overnight.

~~~
hatcravat
The overnight stop is really a red herring: The battery only lost about 5-7%
of capacity overnight, which is much less than the difference between a
standard charge (90% of capacity) and how much the Times charged the battery
(72%). Actually, it's too bad CNN didn't stop someplace for the night just to
prove this.

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joshfraser
Tesla are getting a ton of free press out of this story. Sometimes I think
they pick these fights on purpose just to get all the free PR.

~~~
analog
I doubt they orchestrated the original article. Their choice is pick a fight
or let the article stand. Picking a fight looks like the better choice to me,
though personally I have no interest in reading someone else's bunfight.

------
ck2
Live twitter logging of the trip with occasional photos

<https://twitter.com/PeterDrives>

<https://twitter.com/AbigailBassett>

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BryantD
Can we get the Tesla logs of this trip as well?

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tjoff
How well does the batteries in an electric car age?

Will anyone be able to do this drive, under any conditions, in a Model S with
batteries that are 2, 5 or 10 years old?

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xwowsersx
Man I want this car badly.

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OGinparadise
_That mere 70 miles of buffer made me a little nervous, especially after I
missed an exit and added a few miles to the trip. I followed Tesla's
recommendations and kept the cruise control pegged to between 60 and 65 much
of the way and kept the climate control at 72 degrees. And I minimized stops.
But I made it_

What's the point of having a car that costs north of $50K and as much as $90K
if you have to worry about missing an exit? This whole thing is bad press for
Tesla, they thought they had the "gotcha" moment ("he went in circles in the
parking lot" for a whopping.......0.6 miles while trying to find the charging
station) but it just showed a prospective buyer how fragile this very
expensive car.

Let me repeat it: this car is very expensive and cannot be relied to go for a
few hundred miles because it has so many variables. This is a niche car at
best, a rich person maybe can brag about it while having other normal cars.

Hybrids would probably be best for me.

~~~
dkhenry
I see you have never missed an exit on the NJ turnpike. Even with a ICE you
can easily run out of gas due to the large distance between exits and Service
plazas. Thats one _more_ point towards the car, Even during a normal
disturbance it can still work just fine if you you know actually charge it.

~~~
OGinparadise
they are a lot of differences:

You can exit and drive a few miles into a town to find a gas station and fill
up in 2 minutes. If you filled your tank you know what you have inside, it
will not drop due to temperature (relatively speaking)

A tow truck can ultimately bring you gasoline.

All these things rule the electric car out for me and many others, unless I am
worth $20 million and buy one as a third car. I'd be scared of running out of
power all the time.

Yes, for the record even with GPS I got lost.

~~~
dkhenry
If what your saying is true, then there is no reason for there to be tow
trucks with gasoline , but there are. I know we have better infrastructure for
ICE. We have built it out over 100 years , and because of that I think we
still have a bias against switching to electric vehicles, but the real
takeaway is that the problem is now infrastructure level. The cars are as good
as if not better then their ICE counterparts (in many ways they are better and
forced to be better due to the infrastructure limitations) There is always
going to be the chance that your going to run out of juice. I would say its
marginally greater then the chance your going to run out of gas , but thats
not a car problem, and from just the car standpoint the number of things that
can break is greatly reduced.

