
Founders: would you hire a telecommuting, part-time (but talented) college student? - Psyonic

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thomas23
Bottom-line, you need experience. I'm young, 22, but got my job as lead
developer when I was 20 and in college because no one could argue with my
experience. I don't mean you need to go and work for a dozen companies before
you can get a job where the founders trust you. Do what I did, manufacture
experience. I've written around 10 medium-large scale projects by myself, one
being a social network that wowed the founder of my current company.

One thing I know for sure, school means almost nothing. It helps a lot but
only when you spend the time learning as much as possible about web
technologies. As well as developing and refining your skills as a web
developer.

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Psyonic
That is precisely what I have been doing. I spend considerable amounts of time
learning about web technologies and refining my skills, and it really has
nothing to do with making myself employable. On average I would rather
experiment with Seaside than play a video game. I am 21, and actually already
have considerable experience in the work field so far, but have been
unsatisfied. I think I would find a startup much more to my liking. Perhaps I
will have to follow your lead and develop a pet project into something
impressive.

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sbraford
Build something cool. Throw it up online; see if it catches on.

The best gigs I ever landed were obtained without the use of a resume. Simply
an email + a link to a cool site that I've built.

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jsjenkins168
Yes, but I would treat him as a contractor and not give him equity.

At least until he is willing to relocate and become involved in the day-to-day
operations.

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cmars232
Yeah, it would have to at least start as a pay-as-you-go model for services
provided. That's the only way I could see managing the risks (potential
inexperienced + remote location).

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bkrausz
As a college student who has tried starting a business and still does
consulting work on the side: yes, but don't rely on them. Allow me to relate
my situation regarding working while in college:

I have one particular client who relies on me greatly. They accept the fact
that school comes first and we work around that, but things have slowed down
significantly while I'm in school. I find it more draining to sit in boring
classes all day than to sit at a desk working on an interesting project.
Between that, homework, and the distractions of college life, I get little
consulting work done.

That's just me though...I flourish when at a desk with a large monitor, not
sitting in my messy dorm room with a 13" laptop. He may be the type who can
handle both an education and work, or he may be at a school that requires very
little of him. Everyone functions differently in different situations. Bottom
line? Keep him with you with small projects, even if he is busy. You never
know when he, like myself, will have the sudden urge to take a semester off
and work on a startup (and be sure to be there to take advantage this
opportunity if it should come along).

P.S.-There's also a lot to be said for working in the same location as
someone, telecommuting kills my productivity, but again, I'm not the standard
for anything :)

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webwright
Sure would. I'd start on a contracting basis (more "at-will", less
paperwork)...

The challenge is actually understanding whether a telecommuting college
student was really digging in, putting in the hours, and generating high-
quality code. And, of course, there's the challenge of a distributed team (but
that's a pretty well-understood challenge).

If you have a passion for productivity/GTD and that sorta thing, feel free to
drop me a line. If you have passion for other things, it might be worth
posting a link to a bit more information about you and what you enjoy. The
only thing cooler than writing great software is writing great software that
solves a problem that you care about.

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Shorel
Well if you want to check if somebody is putting in the hours, you could
manage it all with Subversion and commit scripts. Then you just check commit
time and frecuency ^^

For quality code you need (to be) a good developer to know that.

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Psyonic
Another question for those that have already responded to this thread: What
kinds of things would you be valuable to you in making a hiring decision?
Personally I find resumes to be a weak indicator of abilities. Not to say I
don't have one, but I don't think a checklist is nearly enough. Would you find
a personal blog regularly updated with development related posts worthwhile?
Should I spend time learning (reading books, etc) or would I be better off
getting a few small pet projects going? In a world with no time limitations, I
would like to do all of these things, but that just isn't practical (right
now, at least).

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yubrew
For start ups, I would much rather see someone with a track record with
finished projects. Programs, code, apps, open source contributions, references
from people you've worked with are all the things I look for as far as skills.

A blog is nice, because in an interview process, I only really get to know you
for like 1 hour tops. In a blog, I can better understand your values, your
interests, and what you've done.

Resumes have their place, if you have hundreds of potential candidates to go
through. If you are a good candidate, you should have pages and pages worth of
experiences, and it's now a matter of picking the experiences relevant to the
task.

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tx
I would. If I could afford you now :-) Because if you are really good and
really talented, getting you to work with us 2 years after you graduate will
be one hell of a lot harder.

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gyro_robo
Yes. I don't think start-ups need to be super-careful about _hiring_ , they
need to be careful about _evaluating_ and _retaining_. The only way you know
if someone is good or not is to give them a shot.

I would have no trouble hiring someone, but they have to get up to speed
quickly, as I also have no trouble firing someone. Hiring should be flexible
and provisional.

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yubrew
Early hiring is very important. I would evaluate you like a potential
cofounder, and start you on a summer project to see how you do. IMO, from the
founder's side, it is a small bet to place for a potentially large gain if
things work out.

What kind of experience are you looking to get out of it? What skills you got,
and where are you located?

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Psyonic
I answered very similar questions below in response to davidw, so look there
for a breakdown. As for the experience I am looking to get out of it... hard
to explain exactly. I just find the idea of working with a small group of
developers on something innovative to be extremely appealing, and the
risk/reward ratio of startups to be satisfying as well. I would much rather
work for a startup with a chance to make it big (and a considerable chance to
fail) than work for a corp with a guaranteed chance of office politics and
mindless drudgery.

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yubrew
I like that attitude. Any way I can contact you? My e-mail is in my profile.

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mm
why not? with the increasing efficiency in cross border communications, i
don't see how remote hiring wouldn't work.

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Psyonic
I ask this partially for myself (as I will be attending school as again in the
fall, and am really drawn to the startup environment), but also just in
general. What kind of qualifications are generally expected?

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catfish
How much are you looking for an hour? Do you have a pet project in mind? How
many hours a week can you work on the project?

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Psyonic
I would be willing to seriously negotiate pay per hour dependent on the
project. I really want to work for something I find interesting and enjoyable,
and that is more important to me than money right now. As for specific pet
projects, I don't really know at the moment. My interests are many and varied.
As for hours per week, starting in August around 20 (I would be willing to
increase this for crunch times, but within reason.) Also, another thing I
haven't mentioned yet in this thread, once I graduate, if I was already
involved with a project, I would be very willing to relocate. Basically all of
the software mechas appeal to me (SF, Seattle, Austin, Boston), so that is a
non-issue.

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catfish
Perfect. Please send your contact info to jobsdca@yahoo.com.

I would like to hire you.

Answers that question, doesn't it....

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joshwa
A college student is already a risky proposition, part-time makes the
potential payoff smaller, and telecommuting means that it's much harder for a
hiring manager to judge the "talented" part of the equation.

So, no.

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Psyonic
Josh, I expected as much, but it is unfortunate to hear. I really want to
finish up my degree, but there is not a lot of startup activity in my area,
and I am really itching to get involved with one. I've considered starting my
own, but I don't yet have a good idea to go with, and I'd like more experience
before I jump the gun. What if the student were willing to work for equity
(obviously a small amount) rather than pay?

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davidw
Where are you and what skills do you have?

I think starting your own or getting involved with something locally is your
best bet. That's the fastest way to get experience.

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Psyonic
I forgot to touch on the skills part of things. I am three years through a CS
degree, so I have the experience you'd expect from that (Java/.NET/C++
development, UML, some design, significant math (Calculus, Linear Algebra,
Stats), but I have also been working as a Ruby on Rails developer for a year
now, and really dived into it. I really love software development, and I am
learning Scheme on my own right now. I've been working through SICP and have
almost completed chapter 2, doing every single exercise on the way. I've also
dabbled with smalltalk and seaside, and that looks appealing as well. As far
as what I would be looking for in a job, I don't really care about the
language. If it is one I know already, great, if not, I'd be more than happy
to learn a new one. I just want to work with smart, ambitious people in a
setting where I can actually do significant work, rather than the drudgery
that I have experienced from my corporate experiences so far.

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avibryant
Since you mention the words "smalltalk", "seaside", and "dabble" ;), drop me a
note - avi@dabbledb.com.

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richcollins
Yes. Email me (richcollins@gmail.com)

