
Another iPhone app, MailWrangler, banned from App Store for "duplicating functionality" - nickb
http://angelo.dinardi.name/2008/09/20/mailwrangler-and-the-apple-app-store/
======
gdee
Apple's stance on acceptance/rejection of these apps is getting more
disgusting by the week. There are many ways to discuss this rationally, and
many have been used already, here and elswere. But the first, straight from
the gut, reaction is just that: disgusting. I know it is their platform, store
and will and right... it's still disgusting.

~~~
axod
Why is it disgusting? Why is it surprising?

People seem to be forgetting Apple is a business. Not a charity.

I think Apples biggest mistake was to launch the app store in the first place.
I'm not interested in pretending my phone is a light saber, or using it as a
flashlight. For me, it sort of "dumbs down" the phone. There are some apps
that look well written, like super monkey balls etc, but most of them are just
idiotic. Wastes of time, and money.

Apple is there to make money, and give users what they want. Not developers.
If there's an app in the store that does something similar to an app Apple
does, but a bit better, guess which one I want as a user? The Apple one. I
want to know Apple will support it, be behind it, make sure it works for
everyone etc. The other app could be a 1 man band who isn't that bothered.

I don't think Apple should have opened the app store, they should have just
exposed all the hardware to javascript, as they did with the multitouch,
orientation changes etc. The only thing the app store has going for it is a
willingness from users to pay money for novelty apps, but I think that will
soon wear off.

In this particular case I can't see why anyone would want the app anyway. What
does it offer above the standard mail app? Do Apple really need the extra
hassle of providing support - "My mail doesn't work Apple!!! Oh um by the way
I'm using some weird app I installed"

~~~
netcan
Would you find it disgusting if they started buying up failed companies for
the patents & suing left, right & centre?

~~~
axod
How is that relevant?

~~~
raganwald
It has to do with the characteristic of the activity being "disgusting" as
opposed to being "not in shareholder's interests," "not in customers'
interests," or even "not in society's interests."

Both corporate behaviours have incited this kind of deeply emotional response.
So it's interesting to ask someone if they have the same emotional response to
each corporate behaviour.

It would be very interesting to me if someone says they find patent trolling
to be businesses making money according to the rules of the game as they are
written but that same person thinks of Apple's behaviour as "disgusting."

I am not suggesting anybody here has that response, just that I see that the
question is interesting.

~~~
netcan
Exactly.

If neither of these behaviours are 'disgusting,' what is? IE if you don't find
these disgusting, then you probably think that no business behaviour qualifies
for this title.

In that case, that comment is out of place. Why say 'why is this disgusting?'
What you mean is 'There's no such thing as disgusting in business.

~~~
raganwald
_There's no such thing as disgusting in business_

No, there isn't. Business is amroal for the simple reason that corporations
are not people.

However, there is such a thing as disgusting when people make business
decisions. The fact that someone owns a business or works for a business does
not relive them of personal moral responsibility.

A business is perfectly correct to decide that offshoring shoe manufacturing
to copuntries with child labour is the right choice. A business is perfectly
correct to decide that offshoring chemical manufacturing to countries with lax
safety standards is the right choice.

The people working for those businesses, on the other hand, are not off the
hook. They cannot invoke the Nuremburg defence, for can they assert that since
the business is devoid of responsibility, and they work for the business,
their decisions while on the job are devoid of responsibility.

Thus, speaking to another post here, I have no _ethical_ problem with a firm
that exists to commit patent extortion. However, I find the actions of its
founders and employees disgusting.

~~~
netcan
I think there is a distinction between disgusting & amoral. One is an
aesthetic judgement, the other is ethical.

------
uuilly
It really doesn't matter whether these stories are true or not. The fact that
they could conceivably be true is indicative of a major problem. After years
of building software around Microsoft's tedious business plans, we developers
are excited b/c the "good guy" is on the cusp of winning the next big war. But
Apple is blowing it badly. Developers flocked to them like refugees b/c they
were allowed to use the tools they wanted and their users had a platform that
worked. Now Apple is playing home court advantage much more heavy handedly
than Microsoft ever dreamed. The iPhone is years ahead of the competition.
Steve does not need to behave like Vladamir Putin to win. Balmer had it right
about one thing even if he never stayed true to it: "Developers, developers,
developers!!!"

Reminds me of the Fight Club quote: "We cook your meals. We haul your trash.
We connect your calls. We drive your ambulances. We guard you while you sleep.
Do not fuck with us."

~~~
axod
If you think the app store is the next big war you're totally missing the
massive ship sailing past.

~~~
uuilly
I think mobile is the next big war. And the app-store is the AOL of mobile.

~~~
axod
Do you think people will spend more time using apps in the iphone store, or
webapps in the browser? I'd bet on the latter personally.

People have been saying Mobile is the next war for the last 10 years.

~~~
unalone
I'm going to have to disagree with you. What was the number Steve gave last
week? 100,000,000 downloads?

Apps are faster, they feel better, they can take advantage of the tilt
properties and of multitouch. Did you not see the new ads? The new focus is
all about gaming. You can't do games on the web with the same level of
quality.

~~~
axod
You can access multitouch, and some tilt stuff from javascript.

I guess it depends on connectivity in your area of the world. As a user, I'd
rather keep applications sandboxed in a nice browser with nothing downloaded.

~~~
unalone
I'm in New Jersey, and there's very little Wi-Fi. That's the other thing,
actually: I speak from an iPod touch perspective, where you can't use a
cellular network. That's something else to keep in mind.

~~~
axod
Ah, very true. I can see the point of apps on the touch more than for the
iPhone.

------
litewulf
Again, if this is something that bothers you, please understand the solution
is to NOT BUY AN IPHONE, and not "whine online and continue to use your
iphone".

RMS once agreed that OSS tools were inferior, but he only used OSS tools
because by doing so (and contributing code and +1 userbase) he was working
towards a future where the OSS achieved parity or became better. Same for all
these other arguments. "But only Apple makes iPhones" is true, but ignores the
greater market impact.

Besides, I fear that with the death of Palm and the increasing distaste
towards WinMo (and the continuing stillbirth of Android) that the lesson
carriers are learning is that closed is better.

~~~
webwright
Eh? Not buying an iPhone is certainly a solution, but it's not the only one.

If I walked into my favorite restaurant and said, "I love this place, but I
wish you had slightly fresher salads," would you say, "Shut up and take a
walk-- there are plenty of restaurants down the street."?

Consumer feedback is important. You're probably right that the most powerful
thing a consumer could do is very loudly announce that they weren't going to
buy for a specific reason. But it's still plenty compelling for a business to
hear, "I'll grudgingly use your app/tool, but I'm continually frustrated by
X".

Watch Apple-- I'd wager they respond to the "whining".

~~~
axod
A few iphone app developers != consumers.

Do you seriously think iPhone users care one bit about this?

~~~
shawndrost
In a second-handed way -- it's pretty clear that iPhone developers care about
this, and that iPhone users care about developers.

~~~
axod
I'd say iPhone users care about apps, or being able to do what they want to. I
don't think they particularly care about developers.

------
antirez
In my opinion this case is much alarming then the previous one (the podcast
application) because here seems like that the guys in charge to check if the
applications are ok or not are not competent enough, or better, they don't
really have a clue if they claim the missing 'edit account' is an application
problem (it can be an usability _feature_ ). Very sad.

------
axod
Please, we get it. Apple reject some apps from their store. How many more of
these 'stories' do we need before everyone gets it?

If this is surprising to you, you should probably read some books on business,
customer service, user experience etc

It's a shame this sort of thing gets upvoted IMHO.

