
Stand to Work If You Like, but Don't Brag About the Benefits - tshtf
http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/03/17/470713717/stand-to-work-if-you-like-but-dont-brag-about-its-benefits
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thenomad
Not particularly convinced by this.

All the article is saying is "no studies have confirmed that standing desks
are correlated with positive health effects."

Given that standing desks are a relatively new thing, and as they mention
_there are no good studies either way_ , that's not very surprising.

And the evidence that sitting a lot is bad for you is still there.

So the hypothesis that _not sitting all day_ is a good idea still looks pretty
valid, and sit-stand desks seem like a decent way to achieve that.

~~~
azinman2
There are many, many jobs where people stand all day long. Shouldn't be hard
to find anyone working at cafes, hospitals, etc.

~~~
mmanfrin
Except you can't compare the health benefits of standing vs sitting by
comparing different jobs: those jobs have different salaries, populations,
risks, and benefits which all have a say in health. Good luck trying to
account for all of that to find causal evidence of sitting/standing's relation
to health.

~~~
azinman2
You won't be able to get ideal statistics this way (any large health study is
hard) but you can still do lots to control for these sorts of things. It's not
a new need.

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planetjones
For someone who has a herniated disc in the lumbar spine a stand-up desk has
been life changing.

I genuinely think if I'd had such a desk before and stood for say 20 minutes
in the hour I wouldn't have got into the mess I did with my back.

While some of the benefits may be over-stated I am convinced variety during
the day (sitting and standing) significantly benefits the spine.

~~~
eludwig
Agreed. I think variety is the key.

I also have a herniated disc (L4/L5) and need to get up every half-hour or so
for a quick walk. Works wonders.

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therobot24
The report just confirms my gut on this issue. I had to stand all day when i
worked retail during high school as well as undergrad and i couldn't fathom
why people would think it's significantly better.

~~~
parfe
Another failed expedition on the desperate search for the fountain of youth.

~~~
0xdeadbeefbabe
Wait--it's a fountain?

~~~
Avshalom
well... disused well of youth [http://doublestealth.blogspot.com/2014/07/my-
treadwater-desk...](http://doublestealth.blogspot.com/2014/07/my-treadwater-
desk.html)

~~~
0xdeadbeefbabe
This comment.

(That was an insightful article. It was full of insight)

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fosco
I have a desk that I can move between standing and sitting with the touch of a
button.

I love the versatility -- I am certainly more alert while standing. That being
said, I feel no more or less healthy, but the alertness impact is immediate
and noticeable.

~~~
jharger
I have one of these too, and I agree... but I also become very aware of
everything else going on in the cubicles near me... and it's quite
distracting.

It's much easier to filter it all out when I'm sitting down with my cube walls
around me.

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randlet
I'll happily tout the benefits to me thank you very much!

My standing desk[1] has been a lifesaver in terms of minimizing my sciatica. I
tried a few different (expensive) ergonomic chairs, but nothing has been as
good for me as standing has.

Whether or not standing at a desk will make you live longer is irrelevant to
me. As the other comments here confirm, for some of us the tangible benefits
are obvious. Try it out for a few _weeks_ and see how you make out.

[1]
[http://randlet.com/static/img/standing_desk.jpg](http://randlet.com/static/img/standing_desk.jpg)

~~~
raziel2701
That looks super nice, did you build it yourself?

~~~
randlet
Thanks! My dad is a woodworker so I gave him the dimensions /height and a
rough design and he ran with it.

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arielweisberg
Treadmill desks work for me? You can pull out studies for or against I don't
really care.

I haven't been at my current weight in over a decade. I do 30 miles a week on
it. It's tiring. If that's not exercise then ???

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joslin01
I did this for about ~6 months and developed knees that ached all the time. I
was running at the same time, so maybe that had something to do with it, but
really I never noticed some huge health or energy shift.

The thing I will say about it though is that if you're tired, standing keeps
you paying attention whereas sitting can make you slouch and relax. This is
useful right after lunch, but all day? Save your legs the trouble and join a
gym if it's your physical health you're worried about.

~~~
razvanh
It's more probable that the knee pain was related to your running habit :)

~~~
joslin01
Probably. It was pavement after all back then, but it would hurt more the
longer I kept standing there.

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gurkendoktor
Science is terrible at understanding long-term effects on complex systems
(such as the human body). At some point you just have to listen to your
intuition and evaluate things with a sample size of 1.

For me, buying an adjustable desk two years ago has been a fantastic
investment. I usually spend the middle of the day sitting, but I love to stand
right after breakfast (I get tired when I sit down in the morning) and when I
play multiplayer games after dinner.

~~~
Jemmeh
This. And even if the "average" person in a study works a certain way, you
might just be one of the outliers. People vary a lot and you have to figure
out what works for you.

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danr4
In my opinion, standing vs sitting is irrelevant as long as you work out and
have some muscles to support your spine and help maintaining good posture for
long-ish periods of time.

I would guess fitness accounts for at least 70% of not having back problems,
which makes me believe people with a strong back can sit/stand however the
hell they want.

Can anyone enlighten me with any research or articles that correlates with my
beliefs?

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Htsthbjig
How is standing up new or fashion?

Someone told me an architect studio was selling old stuff and we could
probably be interested on some things so we could pay a visit...

I was socked when I saw they were replacing an entire room of drawing tables
that architects used standing up, with computers that people used sitting
down.

With the drawing tables there were stools. It was normal in chemical labs,
repair shops, teachers giving a class, lots of places.

You could sit when you wanted, you could stand when you wanted. That is how I
had been working for years, with my computer at eyes' level, with a stool I
could sit when I want. Half the time I stand, half I sit without really
sitting down, I just support my weight on the stool.

So because mouse and keyboard computers are hard to move like we do and are
not very ergonomical, we degrade ourselves to computer level: we stare to near
displays and don't move at all for hours.

For me it is not a long term solution. Improvements will happen over time.

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proc0
I stand at work and at home. I'm standing 90% of the time on a computer, and
that's most of the day. First, if there's evidence that sitting down all the
time is bad, then NOT doing that is already better. Second, and most
importantly, standing is better not because you're not sitting down, but
because you're in an active state, in a position ready to move around.

If you stand in exactly one position for hours (as if you're stuck in a chair)
then you're doing it wrong. Standing up is really about having the freedom to
move around as you're reading things on the computer, or taking micro-breaks
to stretch your arm, etc. Constantly being in motion is the best way to stay
active and use the computer all day.

~~~
weego
_First, if there 's evidence that sitting down all the time is bad, then NOT
doing that is already better._

That is something of a logical fallacy. Standing all the time is not
necessarily better than sitting all the time just because research into
sitting suggests it's bad. It may well be the case, but it cannot be concluded
so in that way.

~~~
proc0
What I meant was that since sitting down all the time is bad, then not doing
that is good. So, avoiding sitting down all the time is good (which means you
will stand some of the time).

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henrik_w
I have had an adjustable desk (sit or stand) for the past eight years. The
biggest benefit in my mind is the _variation_ you get from switching between
sitting and standing. Burning calories was never a goal.

I am particularly happy to be able to stand when I feel like it, because I had
a pretty severe case of RSI in my arms, and thought that I would not be able
to continue to work as a programmer. The biggest help came from using a break
program, coupled with an ergonomic keyboard and mouse, but standing also
helps.

More details here: [http://henrikwarne.com/2012/02/18/how-i-beat-
rsi/](http://henrikwarne.com/2012/02/18/how-i-beat-rsi/)

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blisterpeanuts
We seem to be best adapted to squat and hunker, not sit in a chair or even
stand straight.

No studies that I can find, but when I lived in Asia, older men who gathered
to chat, play cards, etc., tended to squat. There were still lots of squat
toilets around, too.

I'm thinking of building a platform so I can squat at my desk rather than sit
on my tush. Alternatively, would like to power my computer by pedaling or
cross-treading, but that's probably a bigger project than I have time for.

But squatting, that's underrated in Western culture. It feels great; more
should do it, and not just while on the toilet.

~~~
twic
> But squatting, that's underrated in Western culture.

At least the Russians know what's up:

[http://weirdrussia.com/2014/04/24/slav-squat-russian-
disturb...](http://weirdrussia.com/2014/04/24/slav-squat-russian-disturbing-
street-trend/)

------
cylinder
I think it's better to invest in figuring out ergonomics of your sitting desk,
chair, arm rests, wrists, keyboard position, monitor position, etc etc.
Combine with regular breaks, walks outside, etc and you're getting improved
energy and less burnout. Ideally your employer invests in a good office as
well, with excellent ventilation, plants abound, and lots of light -- but this
is rare.

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wambotron
This article should just say "do what works for you and keep it to yourself."
Why does everyone need to evangelize every single decision?

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shanecleveland
Anecdotal on my part, but previous, intermittent lower back pain basically
gone after I began standing about two years ago.

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ned_roberts
Anecdotally, standing for half the day has helped my hemorrhoids. Not sure if
they were caused by sitting for 8+ hours a day in a desk chair, but not
sitting definitely helps. Not something I brag about though :)

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andrewtbham
My grandmother ran a store and was on her feet all day long. She had really
bad vericose veins when she was older. That is a real problem with standing.

~~~
milesokeefe
Obligatory "correlation != causation"

~~~
andrewtbham
Obligatory... RTFA

> "I would say that there's evidence that standing can be bad for your
> health." A 2005 study in Denmark showed prolonged standing at work led to a
> higher hospitalization risk for enlarged veins.

If you read the article, they state that their is causation between standing
and varicose veins. I am simply relating a personal anecdote confirming my
experience that standing all day is not good for your health. I always
wondered why this never came up during the standing desk craze.

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justinlardinois
At the very least, I imagine standing for long periods of time burns more
calories than sitting.

~~~
milesokeefe
RTFA

>The extra calories you burn from standing over sitting for a day are barely
enough to cover a couple of banana chips.

>"But you're going to burn more calories standing than sitting. I know it's
not a tremendous amount." Still, he says, "those calories every day over many
years will add up."

~~~
cholantesh
I feel like Carr's analysis was overly optimistic. Even in the aggregate, it
seems really doubtful that 20 years of burning ~12 calories a day is anywhere
near as effective as integrating breaks into your workday and walking around
more.

It's great that folks here have managed to ease some of the chronic
spinal/back pain they're experiencing. But that's really the only positive
effect I feel we can link with some level of certainty to standing (within the
context of office work).

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alextgordon
Useless clickbait. Nobody ever claimed that the one and only benefit of
standing is to "burn excess calories".

Personally I had developed back pain from too much sitting. When I stand, I
have better posture and so I don't get the pain.

~~~
dpark
> _Nobody ever claimed that the one and only benefit of standing is to "burn
> excess calories"._

Well, the article didn't claim that, either. It mentions that as one potential
(arguable) benefit. It mentions this in the broader context of standing desk
improving health in general, and the fact that there's basically no evidence
for this.

~~~
analog31
Agreed. However, it seems to me that "health in general" is potentially harder
to quantify than specific health conditions. It might be of interest to people
who deal with workers in the aggregate, such as insurers and employers.

But I could imagine individual workers wanting to know more about the
specifics: Could standing at work help with my personal health and medical
issues? That question presented itself to me when my doctor told me that my
neck and upper body pain was caused by sitting at a computer all day.
Switching to a standing desk gave me fairly rapid relief after struggling for
more than a year.

Of course that's just my anecdote. If someone else doesn't have the same
problem, then the question is completely different for them.

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bgribble
OMG the comments on that article... a significant chunk of the threads are
talking about the freaking stock-photo model. when will I learn NEVER READ THE
COMMENTS (whitelist=HN,Metafilter)

I like a standing desk. I have had chronic back problems aggravated by a
slumping chair posture, and 100% standing for the last year or so has been (I
feel) really helpful.

