
Has online piracy reached a tipping point?  - peter123
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-10222810-93.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20
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pmjordan
They really don't get it, do they:

 _I'm not fussed about whether it's free or not, it's convenience that
matters._

When my girlfriend and I would like to watch a movie that's no longer in
cinemas, I don't care if it'll cost me a couple of euros if it only takes a
few clicks to start the download, and the connection is good enough that we
can watch it a few hours later. Just the fact that I don't have to look at
porn ads on some torrent site ghetto would be worth money to me.

Right now, it depends on what country I happen to be in whether I can download
a movie from, say, iTunes, at all. (I can't at home, certainly) But wait, I
don't even want to "buy" a movie off iTunes, as that would force me to watch
it within 24 hours. _If I wanted to have my life scheduled by the
entertainment industry, I'd watch TV._

We're finally at a point where I can buy non-DRM _music_ if I jump through a
few hoops and lie about where I live. Except of course it's easier and
_inexplicably costs almost the same amount of money_ to just order the CD from
amazon. Okay, it takes 2 days to arrive, but music usually isn't as spur-of-
the-moment as "let's watch a movie!" Plus, I get a nice booklet (if the artist
cares enough to persuade the label to spend a few cents on presentation) and I
don't have to worry about backups once the CD has fulfilled its original
purpose of facilitating a rip to FLAC and moves into the CD rack, rarely to be
touched again.

I don't see how they _wouldn't_ make a killing if they sold downloadable, DRM-
free movies for about €3-4, albums for, say, €4, and TV series episodes for 50
cents to 1 euro. Sure, it would destroy the industry of shops that sell DVDs,
but amazon and play.com are doing that already.

~~~
lucumo
Unfortunately, paying online is also quite an inconvenience if you live in an
area where credit cards are an exception, not the norm.

The Dutch banking sector solved it quite nicely by creating an online payment
system (supported by almost all banks) that's well integrated into their
online banking systems[1]. It works for the national market, but when your
browsing crosses the border, you're back into the territory of the infernal
credit card.

In this country, the credit card is often seen as a road to debt and as
insecure. The banks' system is seen as much more trustworthy. Even if it
doesn't support chargebacks, where the CC does...

I suppose that moving from no-risk piracy to risky paying is a hurdle in and
of itself, even if the risk is just perceived.

[1] It's called iDEAL. It even has a Wikipedia page in English:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDEAL> It never ceases to amaze me how often my
countrymen translate their national quirks into English...

~~~
pmjordan
Credit cards are pretty rare in Austria, too. (I blame the banks in part;
getting a CC here has been a nightmare for me and has taken over half a year!)
Amazon seems to do fine regardless, as they've just adapted to the local
idiosyncracies. iTunes seems to solve it with gift vouchers. (the latter
presumably being especially useful for kids)

Come to think of it, there must be a substantial market for painless pan-
European payment processing. Hmm! Or has this been tried and failed many times
before?

In any case, to address the micropayment angle, you could optionally pre-
charge your account with a certain amount of credit and slowly use that up.
I'm sure this sort of thing could be solved, given enough demand. The problem
seem to be the copyright holders, though, so I have little hope.

~~~
lucumo
_> Credit cards are pretty rare in Austria, too. (I blame the banks in part;
getting a CC here has been a nightmare for me and has taken over half a
year!)_

There's also a fee associated with having a credit card here, so unless you
use it a lot, it's generally hardly worth your while.

Amazon either completely ignores the Dutch market or it doesn't get a foot in
the door. amazon.nl redirects to amazon.co.uk. There is a Dutch competitor[1]
that's pretty big here. Before iDEAL they just worked around the whole credit
card mess by sending bills[2].

 _> Come to think of it, there must be a substantial market for painless pan-
European payment processing. Hmm! Or has this been tried and failed many times
before?_

There has been a very small scare here that a system like that (in the context
of the Single Euro Payments Area[3]) might supersede the local iDEAL system by
an inferior system. I'm not aware of any previous attempts on pan-European
payment systems. There have been some attempts on the Dutch national market
before iDEAL, but most of them failed (presumably because if it doesn't have
the support of all major banks, the market will end up fragmented).

[1] Bol.com

[2] The Dutch "acceptgiro", you just fill in your account number (if that
hasn't been done already), sign it and send it to your bank. Surprisingly,
there isn't an English Wikipedia page for it :-)

[3] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area>

------
swombat
Tipping point my ass.

Saying something in the newspapers doesn't make it true. Those industries are
going the way of the dodo, whether they want to or not.

------
njharman
Huh, from the title I expected an article about tipping the other way.

The general population is learning how broad, expansive, and one-sided
copyright law has become. Learning the extent that governments are on the
payroll of big media corporations and how the laws, treaties, and enforcement
are largely to protect thier bottom line.

People think it's absurd to be sued for signing happy birthday or reading a
book outloud to their child.

~~~
lucumo
_> People think it's absurd to be sued for signing happy birthday or reading a
book outloud to their child._

When did _that_ happen?

~~~
njharman
<http://www.snopes.com/music/songs/birthday.asp>

<http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090210/1014293724.shtml>

Either are actually crimes, punishable with 5years and/or $250,000 per
incident. Since copyright violations are one of the few civil matters that the
government has been conned into making illegal. But you are extremely unlikely
to be prosecuted. Unlike restaurants (bday) and Amazon ("performing" a book).

~~~
lucumo
From that Snopes link:

 _> Does this mean that everyone who warbles "Happy Birthday to You" to family
members at birthday parties is engaging in copyright infringement if they fail
to obtain permission from or pay royalties to the song's publisher? No.
Royalties are due, of course, for commercial uses of the song, such as playing
or singing it for profit, using it in movies, television programs, and stage
shows, or incorporating it into musical products such as watches and greeting
cards; as well, royalties are due for public performance, defined by copyright
law as performances which occur "at a place open to the public, or at any
place where a substantial number of persons outside of a normal circle of a
family and its social acquaintances is gathered." So, crooning "Happy Birthday
to You" to family members and friends at home is fine, but performing a
copyrighted work in a public setting such as a restaurant or a sports arena
technically requires a license from ASCAP or the Harry Fox Agency (although
such infringements are rarely prosecuted)._

That's what I wanted to know. Actually, I wanted to know about people being
sued over singing "Happy Birthday to You" to their child, but I suppose the
answer is more or less given in the fragment I just cited.

Your other link is about the Amazon Kindle. Hardly a parent reading a book out
loud to their child. It's followed by some highly opined speculation that you
can't read a book to your child, but that's not a source of somebody being
sued for reading a book to their child.

I suppose that also didn't happen, since it would be more or less the same as
singing "Happy Birthday to You" to your child, which your source Snopes
already said was okay.

------
noaharc
I fully expected this to be an article about piracy going the other direction.

~~~
cracki
well, it is. they just try (and fail) to make it appear otherwise.

------
Anon84
"There might be just a point here where the culture is changing on what's
legitimate behavior online," said Mike McCurry, the former White House press
secretary under President Bill Clinton and co-chairman of Arts+Labs, a
collaborative group of technology and media companies. "I think perhaps
something of a tipping point has been reached where people are finally saying
that activity we thought was just okay or skirting around the edge has tipped
over into something both dangerous, criminal, and unfair."

------
tokenadult
Duplicate of

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=569398>

