
Victorians who flew as high as jumbo jets - otoolep
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20160419-the-victorians-who-flew-as-high-as-jets
======
zipwitch
Great piece! It's a nice reminder that the real world was a lot more fantastic
and steampunk-like than a conventional presentation of history would lead one
to believe.

------
shirro
In an article from April 2016 they mention Felix Baumgartner but not Alan
Eustace? Don't the BBC have google and wikipedia?

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Eustace](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Eustace)

~~~
flexie
I didn't know either. I bet Alan Eustace didn't have the PR of an energy drink
company.

------
esaym
Reminds me of lawn chair larry
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Walters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Walters)

~~~
lawnchair
my hero

------
mkhpalm
I will admit. I have a hard time believing victorian ballooners achieved 37k
feet without dying.

~~~
mizzao
Considering that some have climbed Mount Everest (29k feet, and requiring much
more physical exertion) without supplementary oxygen, it doesn't seem too far-
fetched.

~~~
curun1r
People who climb Everest carefully (and slowly) acclimatize prior to any
summit attempt. Expeditions can spend 40-60 days going up (and down) to help
the body adjust to harsh conditions. Also, the 8k feet difference between
Everest summit and 37k isn't nothing. There will be ~30% less oxygen at 37k
feet than there is at 29k feet and, according to the Wikipedia entry for Mt
Everest, someone accustomed to sea level air pressure would pass out within
2-3 minutes at 29k. So even if they made it to 29k and were still awake, they
wouldn't be when they reached 37k without going upwards in a hurry (3000
ft/min is over 30 mph).

I have to agree with the poster you're replying to...37k seems like an
exaggeration. Somewhere in the mid-20ks seems more likely.

------
upofadown
This is a relevant and good read:

* [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/861](https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/861)

A relevant Gutenberg search:

* [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/search/?query=s.balloon](https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/search/?query=s.balloon)

------
rwmj
How did they estimate their height?

~~~
jzwinck
They likely had a barometer. The very same method we use today to supplement
the rather unsteady altitude reading from GPS.

If they did this, the next question would be how accurate their calibration
was. Barometric altimetry was only about 20 to 50 years old at that time.

~~~
chrisseaton
Why is altitude from GPS unsteady? Do you mean unsteady compared to latitude
and longitude? Why would one dimension be less precise than the others?
Something to do with the position of the satellites being in a kind of domed
plane rather than all around you?

My tactical GPS has a separate digital barometer to help it establish a GPS
location more quickly. I've always wondered why.

~~~
dfc
I kind of giggled when i read "tactical GPS." I imagine the device is all
black and is made by a company whose motto is some variant of "high speed low
drag." Other than that what is the difference between a "tactical GPS" and a
run of the mill GPS?

~~~
chrisseaton
It's a small, ruggedised GPS that interfaces with personal military radio
systems such as Bowman. Tactical meaning used on a person, as opposed to
something on a vehicle with a big antenna. These didn't say they had a
barometer, which is why I made the distinction. I used them when I was in the
Army. What is there to giggle about in any of that?

~~~
7402
Full respect if you used it in the army. The giggling was probably because the
GPS was thought to be "tacticool"
([http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Tacticool](http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Tacticool))
as opposed to tactical.

~~~
dfc
This is exactly what I was thinking. You do not see many comments from Tommy
Tacticool on HN.

------
roywiggins
I wonder if Victorian balloonists experienced an analogue to the Overview
Effect astronauts experience. I can't imagine what being the first people to
see from high above would have been like.

~~~
rogerspace
Think about how we view the ocean today, versus how people viewed the ocean
hundreds of years ago. The same phenomena meant really different things to
different groups of people in different cultural contexts and historical
moments. The same is true with the view of the earth from space. "The Overview
Effect" is the product of cold war total-system thinking; a combination of the
gaia hypothsis, the blue marble, and "spaceship earth". Here is a really good
paper--Bimm, "Rethinking The Overview Effect" (2014)--about the historical
specificity of "overview" an how it is a cultural, rather than natural,
product.
[https://www.academia.edu/5995107/Rethinking_the_Overview_Eff...](https://www.academia.edu/5995107/Rethinking_the_Overview_Effect)

~~~
roywiggins
I will give that a read. I've never been comfortable with the "physical
effect" argument, but I've only ever seen it presented in pop media as a fait
accompli, so it's a relief that there's serious consideration of other
explanations.

------
mizzao
The "cold and lack of oxygen"? How about just altitude sickness?

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altitude_sickness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altitude_sickness)

~~~
coldtea
How is that different from "lack of oxygen"? Altitude sickness is just a name
for its symptoms...

------
funkyy
Great article, its amazing how back in the days so many aristocrats and rich
people were actually conquering the world, breaking the limits and sponsoring
life saving experiments.

It was much different than we have today - get as much money, give %% of them
to charity, hands clean.

~~~
morgante
Plenty of modern innovation and experiments are funded by billionaires today.
Most relevant to HN, Bill Gates, Sergey Brin, Larry Page, and Elon Musk are
all ready examples.

~~~
funkyy
Well not many of them get their hands dirty though, do they? Helping with
money is one thing, but actually as a person diving in to the project and work
on it without dozens of cameras and security guards is different thing.

~~~
morgante
All evidence points to the people I mentioned getting deeply engaged in many
of the experiments they're funding. Friends who work at Space X have confirmed
that Elon at least is intimately involved in the projects.

~~~
funkyy
I agree, but that is just handful of them, isnt it?

~~~
fizx
History tends to distort things. The present is an era. The 1990's is an era.
The 1800's is a era. The renaissance is an era. The stone age is an era.

Of course accomplishments per era could decrease when we're judging the last
few years against much larger time spans of the past.

