
TikTok CEO Kevin Mayer to leave the company - dsr12
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/27/tiktok-ceo-kevin-mayer-to-leave-the-company.html
======
koonsolo
As a European I find this whole story very confusing. A president that can
just force a specific company on very short notice to shut down operation, is
very concerning.

What is even more concerning is that a lot of people here tend to agree
because of the China thing.

If it is that important, why is there no law that enforces this?

~~~
mclightning
I hate this "As a European" generalizations as if Europe has an entirely
homogeneous spread of governance. Take this for a second; Bulgaria and Denmark
is both Europe, or Hungary and Sweden.

~~~
okamiueru
You are absolutely right in that it gives the wrong impression of "everyone
thinks the same". That said, I don't think that is the intention, ever, when
it's used.

There are certain aspects in how things work in the US that are so far
disconnected to how it is, in most of Europe, that is baffling. By an large,
this difference applies to most of Europe.

It is of course an oversimplification. But, here are a few boggling things:
Politics (in particular, money in politics that looks like plain bribery, or
political and misleading ads everywhere), for profit private prisons, no
maternity leave, unpaid internships, healthcare related personal bankruptcies.

The list goes on and on, and, since this is a by and large difference to
Europe, you tend to see the "As a European" phrase.

~~~
askl56
I strongly disagree. There is nobody in Eastern Europe (or Western Europe if
they know enough about politics) who is boggled by money in politics or
misleading ads.

There are countries in Europe that have had Gulags in the last 50 years, I
doubt they are boggled by the idea of a for-profit prison system.

As a European who has lived in America and now in SEA, this "as a European" is
used by people who generally don't understand the variety of different life
experience of people in Europe.

~~~
okamiueru
I wonder if you're not going a git hard on the "strongly disagree". The main
issue I think is that "as a European" tends to excludes eastern Europe in its
generalization. As such, I agree that it isn't very correct. It would probably
make more sense if it was "as a citizen of the more politically homogeneous
Western Europe, in particular Portugal, Spain, France, Ireland, UK,
Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Denmark, Norway, Finland, Sweden, Italy,
Iceland, Austria... and to some extend also but not so much for all topics and
cases the other countries in Europe"... but that is a bit too terse.

I think it also tries to convey how different "a very large number of
countries and millions of people" views X. It will always be a generalization.

So, if you consider "as a European" to be "Western Europe", it very often
applies, overall. It is a generalization, after all. And, as far as
generalizations go, I honestly think "as a European", or... maybe better "as a
Western European", if you will, to be very useful way to express a very
complex connection, and difference in opinion or... zeitgeist. For example, it
helps illuminate the dichotomy in the reaction to private philanthropy in the
US that should have never been necessary. For Americans, it is accepted that
it is a heart warming act, while (for a European), it more often comes across
as dystopian.

As a final note, I'm wondering if you might not want to see that argument I'm
presenting. Because you point out how my case with ads and money in politics
isn't that uncommon in western Europe. Let's be clear, I'm not saying it
doesn't happen, or that Europe is problem free or perfect, or anything like
that, but the problem and perception of it, is worlds apart. Attack ads come
across as a joke that have no place in political discourse, yet, it is
everywhere in the US.

But then again, maybe you are right. It is after all pretending to include the
"shared voice" of people who do might very well not share that voice. It can
be disingenuous. I wonder if making it more specific will still open up for
smaller subsets that disagree. If you say "as a Norwegian", you are still
implying agreement from others that will very much disagree.

------
jld89
What I still don't understand is why European governments haven't made tit for
tat measures against China in corporate law.

Why do we allow free market access to chinese companies when they don't? Are
we crazy? Why not give the keys to our factories/companies while we are at it?

~~~
zorked
The World Trade Organization allows for asymmetrical relations like that for
developing countries.

Same reason why we don't demand a level playing field between sheep and
wolves...

China is a poor, third-world country.

~~~
jld89
So you put China and Burundi on the same category? Really?

~~~
zorked
"I" don't put them anywhere, these categories are pre-existent. The WTO puts
Burundi in a different list, of least developed countries.

~~~
lobotryas
The point is that many countries are claiming that China is abusing its
designation of “developing country” and want that designation revoked. China,
of course, is fighting that tooth and nail.

The only reasons that China passes the sniff test is because they have the
biggest population that skews averages and because they also have insane
income inequality. Only CCP propagandists would try to insist that a nation
with the money for nukes and aircraft carriers is still “developing” :^)

------
tasoeur
Even if Kevin was to stay as TikTok CEO, he would have to leave his role as
the COO of ByteDance. It’s totally understandable that he would want to leave
given the reduced scope (no more head of a global company etc.). What seems
suspicious however is why he would leave prior to an acquisition. As a CEO,
that won’t reflect too good on his reputation... so there’s gotta be a
tradeoff somewhere. Wait & see!

~~~
starfallg
If I had to read between the lines, his leaving is signalling that Bytedance
is digging into their position selling the minimum number of assets (US + 4
eyes) and the negotiations are reaching the crucial stages.

Previously there was still hope of selling TikTok globally.

More importantly it seems that Kevin/TikTok has no influence at all in the
negotiations - it is purely between Bytedance and the relevant companies. This
is probably the real reason he's leaving - he's in no position to shape the
deal and it isn't looking good for him right now.

~~~
dcsan
his usefulness expired, and now HQ want to control the nego directly. Just
like any foreigner used as a local hired gun.

~~~
damuyetu
This is something that has totallly escpaed the western world. This
appointment was just a pr move, similar to hugo bara and xiaomi and many other
ceremonial CEOs at chinese compnaies. it never ends well.

------
throwaway4good
If I were TikTok I would move my international operations to a European
country that was friendly to me and then wait until the anti-China sentiment
in the US settled and then try again.

Rather that than force-selling the US part at a bargain price.

Europe would love a social media giant that could match those of the US. And
just behaved better than the US ones when it came to taxes and data privacy
...

~~~
0xfaded
The sentiment in Europe right now is fear over Chinese money purchasing
European companies piecemeal.

European valuations are kept artificially low by, well, it seems just by being
in Europe. With companies struggling from covid, the usual lack of European
leadership on any sort of stimulus, and the US not in a position to bail the
European economy out again a la 2008, there are a lot of buying opportunities.

Currently the sentiment is mainly confined to political and business circles,
but I wouldn't be surprised if it overflows into the general public once jobs
currently on wage support start disappearing next year.

~~~
jld89
> and the US not in a position to bail the European economy out again a la
> 2008, there are a lot of buying opportunities.

This is new to me, do you have a source? To me the US was in big trouble at
the time, no resources to bail out anyone really...

~~~
0xfaded
This is essentially the austerity that was pushed onto Southern Europe because
the ECB didn't have any mandate to engage in monetary policy until 2012, when
the ECB started to rely on more creative readings. By this time it was QE from
the US Fed that was driving the recovery, but the ECB did eventually engage in
similar practices, if only to bail out assets owned by the northern banks.

------
data4lyfe
I'm confused on why he's leaving. Is the political scope of the role too much
for him and/or is this not the role he intended to occupy?

~~~
ipnon
What's your annual rate for being caught in the middle of a geopolitical
superpower dispute?

~~~
mongol
I am highjacking your comment to express my confusion about this dispute. Not
that it exists, but on what grounds it exists. Has TikTok done something that
is materially different and worse from what, for example, Facebook has? Or is
it only that they do similar things, but they originate from China?

~~~
shrimpx
The stated issue is that TikTok may share American user data with China and
that there’s not any real way for the US to prevent this possibility. So it’s
seen as a national security issue that the Chinese govt could track Americans.
TikTok has insisted that there’s no way that user data could be shared with
the Chinese govt but I think US regulation bodies and intelligence do not buy
it.

~~~
gamingkebab
Is the national security concern that high-profile Americans such as members
of congress, high ranking US military or executive branch officials are
exchanging classified state information across Tiktok?

Or is the national security concern that the Chinese government can force
TikTok to give up their data to Chinese authorities?

So China has 1.4 billion people to data mine on using a minority-report-like
data warehouse mega structure in the like of which the world has never seen
before, and all of those people are in their own jurisdiction. Assuming that’s
the kind of infrastructure the Chinese government can build and is fully
operational, why would they justify the time, cost, and energy required to
fetch what meme someone’s looking at from overseas and risk damaging their
already shaky reputation with their biggest trading partner? Even if there’s a
conspiracy and they cared about what your phone number was or where you lived,
what could they do with it? Yes clearly the most plausible theory is that
they’re kidnapping Americans from their homes in broad daylight. Or perhaps
covid was synthesized in a lab so next year Americans will be getting
biological super weapons mailed to them. Or maybe 5G is a mind control device
that’s hiding the truth from all of us, the truth that you _can_ parse html
with regex.

Anyways, we have a presidency largely based on putting pressure on China with
a proven history of reactionary measures would, make a reactionary anti-china
measure for the sake of supporting a partisan policy right before the November
election.

There are obviously a lot of shady things we are seeing surfacing from the
Chinese government that warrant further investigation, and there are diligent
people are on the ground right now trying to push through the secrecy of that
government. But with Tiktok, it’s a baseless conspiracy theory rooted in
irrational fear that’s being used as a political tool.

------
gumby
I met him a few times when he was at Disney and was impressed by him. Wonder
what he will do now.

(actually Disney as a company impresses me even though I don’t like the
product).

~~~
asdff
What product? Disney is practically a sovereign country.

~~~
echelon
Movies formulated for mass appeal and merchandising.

Theme parks that must remain open.

A back catalog of tens of thousands of movies made since 1924 exclusively
available through your Disney+ membership.

Increasingly, all of American pop culture, super heroes, and sci-fi mythos.

It's a bland brand, but I'm not sure Netflix is any better with their
willingness to fund shows only as long as the cost to viewer ratio is low.

I really want to disrupt these hulking media buffet companies.

~~~
randomsearch
Strong agree on Netflix - for streaming in the UK I use Sky Cinema and it's on
another level.

~~~
vin047
It's been a long time since I've had a look at Sky; I was just about to
comment on how good the offering is on NowTV's Sky Cinema Pass... until I
realised that it only included movies.

For a similar price with Netflix you get movies + TV shows. Granted that the
selection of movies on Sky Cinema do seem better, but if you're a fan of both
then its still hard to beat Netflix's offering

~~~
randomsearch
You can also get Sky's boxsets etc via NowTV. And yep it's 2-3x the price in
total, but my goodness is it worth it. Especially in lockdown, paying £15 for
a month's high quality TV and film is great value.

------
coliveira
The only data that TikTok is stealing is the latest hiphop dance moves by
teenagers! This big hoopla was manufactured to paint Chinese companies as some
kind of monster. Completely absurd. I'm really surprised how a bunch of
otherwise intelligent people in this forum can follow for the disinformation
campaign waged by Trump to paint him as a "protector of American freedom".

~~~
UweSchmidt
The owners of these popular social apps directly control millions, billions of
people by presenting them with the content they decide and taking _all_ the
data about each individual, with stunning implications.

The only ridiculous thing is that this is happening unregulated.

~~~
72deluxe
Conversely, your entire statement could be said about Google or Facebook
surely???

Thought-provoking for sure. I suppose we are all bystanders in these
commercial battles and I am not sure we all win. Sorry times.

------
Ganz7
Two days after they filed the lawsuit

[https://techcrunch.com/2020/08/24/tiktok-sues-the-u-s-
govern...](https://techcrunch.com/2020/08/24/tiktok-sues-the-u-s-government-
over-its-forthcoming-ban/?guccounter=1)

------
lmcp
To me this reads as tiktok definitely being acquired. And as they negotiate
with either Microsoft or Oracle it is becoming clear to Mayer that he will
have more oversight and a greater focus on profitability over growth which
isn't what he signed up for.

~~~
stingrae
What in the world is Oracle going to do with TikTok? For both of these
companies it seems like such a strange acquisition.

~~~
threeseed
a) It will be rewritten in Java and forced to run on Oracle Cloud.

b) Oracle Field Sales will be compensated by how many times they can mention
TikTok to middle managers on the golf course.

c) Endless ads about how TikTok is powered by Oracle Cloud.

------
ponker
I think that with court proceedings and media stunts TikTok can run out the
clock to November 5th at which point the cat will forget about this ball of
yarn and go off in search of some other laser pointer.

------
EE84M3i
I'm confused about why this is big news.

The executive order bans (to-be-defined) transactions with ByteDance and
subsidiaries with the carve-out of "notwithstanding any contract entered into
or any license or permit granted before the date of this order."

Wasn't it going to be required by law for Kevin Mayer (as an American) to
leave TikTok or become a lame-duck CEO? If he didn't leave, he couldn't
accept, for example, new stock grants.

Working for TikTok and holding an American passport is a colossally dumb idea.

------
fqye
I mean, to steer a company through power struggle between the US and China is
very interesting and could be a big plus for future high profile jobs. Unless
he doesn't have much a role at the table and feel hurt. I assume it is the
case.

------
ffggvv
really bad timing for him. wonder what’s next. as i understand he was pretty
high at disney and left when he was passed over for the ceo role

------
gigatexal
So we're fighting wars by meddling with companies now of other countries?

~~~
pedroma
Considering we've been retaliating tit for tat with China for awhile now, it's
inevitable we'd start blocking their tech companies like they've done to
Google, FB, etc. I see the list of blacklisted Chinese tech companies
increasing in the near future.

------
afrojack123
If TikTok gets purchased, all its US employees are going to get a pay cut.

