
Texas woman sentenced to 5 years in prison for voting while on probation - phonon
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/03/30/texas-woman-sentenced-to-5-years-in-prison-for-voting-while-on-probation/
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ifdefdebug
How does such an attorney and judge feel after such a trial? Do they feel
satisfied, fulfilled? Taking away 5 years of someone's life over a little
mistake that didn't hurt anyone? I don't get it: why does a free people like
the Americans allow for that kind of sinister figures to be their prosecutors
and judges?

~~~
pixl97
>How does such an attorney and judge feel after such a trial?

They feel ecstatic. They won. The good guys won again, yay! You have a 10oz
pot brownie (with a very small amount of mj in it), that's distribution
amounts, 30 years in jail for you. Yay! The good guys won again.

* I see I have downvoters... Maybe you don't believe me? I've been working around both the prosecution and defense for around 20 years now, have many family members that work for law enforcement and judges. This is exactly how many of them think.

~~~
dwc
Even from the outside this is obviously true. They consider themselves the
good guys by definition, because they see themselves as representing justice,
as defined by the criminal code. A noble calling. Once you accept that, pure
job performance (convictions) becomes an easy metric. The thought of ruining
some individual's (or family's) life over recreational amounts of pot is
either justified or compartmented away. Or like aaronsw...once the prosecutors
are on it, there's no more question of proportion or actual justice, it's a
matter of looking for the conviction.

Edit: I want to amend this a bit. It _is_ something of a noble calling. In a
better world, the executive legal function could depend a lot more on
legislative and judicial functions to produce a criminal code that served
justice better, and just worry about prosecuting what they can according to
the law. But in so many cases now, the law is an ass.

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p3llin0r3
This is a feature, not a bug. The prison system is designed to drag you in and
keep you in.

Just disgusting.

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ryandrake
I think Americans by and large see prison as this dungeon where we store
people we don’t like for as long as possible rather than as a place where
people who have made mistakes go to get the training and help they need in
order to get back on track. That’s the simplest way to explain things like
ultra long sentences compared to the rest of the civilized world, mistreating
people after they’ve done their time (felon status for life and offender
lists), and the extreme racial disparity among the prison population. It’s a
system designed to permanently bifurcate the population into “normals” and
“criminals”, often along racial lines, and to by any means keep the second
group segregated for as long as possible, as often as possible.

~~~
jimbokun
Calling crimes "mistakes" is a terrible euphemism.

It may be accurate in some cases. But many criminals commit their crimes
knowing full well what they are doing, and with no regard for those who are
hurt by their actions, and show little or no remorse (unless they think
pretending can reduce their sentence).

Now, many are in prison due to unjust laws, selective enforcement, or a flawed
prosecution incarcerating the wrong person. But let's not lump those problems
together with those who intentionally harm others without remorse.

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mgleason_3
OK, while I get the sentiment, this story is about a crime that was a mistake.

I think many of us are aware that felons loose their right to vote. I guess I
assumed you would be blocked from voting. So I never thought about what the
penalty should be. Now that I’ve seen the penalty, I’m appalled.

Frankly, I think we should quit criminalizing everything. The governments
responsible for jailing criminals, no-fly lists and a lot of other things. Why
not take responsibility for blocking felons from voting?

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cynusx
I never quite understood voter disenfranchisement. Some quick googling tells
me that 6 million people are disenfranchised in the US, which out of 235
million voting-aged population means 2.5% of the US voting-aged population is
disenfranchised.

It is also majority targeted towards black voters (despite 18% of voting
population, 34% of disenfranchised are black)

Putting it together for me it's clear that police brutality, redistricting and
rigid voter disenfranchisement all serve the same purpose. To disenfranchise
black voters to the maximum extent possible while remaining constitutional.

This should become a supreme court matter someday.

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loceng
Sounds like it should be categorized as cruel and unusual punishment, even if
it's currently the status quo and therefore very usual.

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cynusx
Well, the only reason I can think of that voting while disenfranchised would
be a felony would be to extend the total period of disenfranchisement.

Surely voting by itself doesn't warrant a 5 year jail sentence

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jefe_
Some options:

Hey, you're not on the list, you can't vote.

Hey, you're not on the list, use the computer in the corner to enter your
details and see if you're eligible.

Hey, you're not on the list, here is a provisional ballot, we will verify your
info and if it clears, your vote will be counted.

You should not get 5 years in prison because the election board is incapable
of securing their processes.

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clintonb
The final option (provisional ballot) is what happened. The problem is she
also signed an affidavit stating that she was eligible. It is a completely
victimless crime and a waste of taxpayer dollars.

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RickJWag
_Not_ victimless. That fraudulent vote cancelled a legitimate one.

The punishment is excessive, but there is a real crime here.

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scarecrowbob
Yes victimless: the vote was removed on review.

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chomp
Felon disenfranchisement by state:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_disenfranchisement#In_t...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_disenfranchisement#In_the_United_States)

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pbiggar
As soon as I saw the headline I thought "I bet she's black". And it turns out
she is.

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dmode
What a disgusting story. How come the State is so vindictive towards the weak
and so powerless against people who starts unjustified wars or brings down the
financial system ?

~~~
sexoffender
Their hope is that maybe they'll be able to change the future for the better
by making an example of someone, even if they have to be excessive, cruel, or
unjust toward that person. They're justifying the means by the hoped end.

~~~
blackbagboys
A more prosaic and more likely explanation is that states controlled by the
Republican party seek to suppress black voting by any means possible because
it's a threat to their hold on power.

~~~
cgriswald
I find that explanation unlikely.

First, the vast majority of states have some type of voting restrictions on
felons, with Maine and Vermont being the only exceptions.

Second, some states historically and modernly controlled by the Republican
party ( _e.g._ Montana) return the right to vote after release.

Third, among states with harsher restrictions (ending after parole or
probation) that are historically OR modernly Republican controlled (ignoring
the first point-that many such states are Democrat controlled), the
demographics are, in many cases, such that _all other races combined_ could
not muster even the perception of a threat to the white, Republican voting
bloc.

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colanderman
Why in the world is this a _felony_? If it's "mere" disenfranchisement you're
going for, why not simply… _don 't count the vote_?

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rndmize
Disenfranchisement can be achieved on a greater scale if you make an example
of people. If you take one person and throw them in jail for voting, you get a
classic chilling effect.

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InclinedPlane
I can't quite figure out what the major differentiating factor is between that
case and this one where someone intentionally tried to vote twice and just got
2 years of probation:
[https://twitter.com/ryanlcooper/status/979519186820128768](https://twitter.com/ryanlcooper/status/979519186820128768)

I'm sure I'll figure it out eventually.

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gdulli
Isn't the whole point of probation that you're under a microscope and face
greater penalties for wrongdoing, in exchange for an early release or
bypassing jail for an earlier offense?

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InclinedPlane
The whole point of probation is that you are trusted enough to not be put in
prison.

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rwz
Putting aside the whole "why voting disenfranchisement is even a thing in the
first place" argument, this situation should have been just

— Sorry maam, it seems like you can't cast a ballot this time due to being on
probation. Have a nice day.

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choward
> “I don’t think I’ll ever vote again,” she told the news outlet after her
> indictment. “That’s being honest. I’ll never vote again.”

This reminds of an article I read about a city government considering fining
people for putting non-recyclables in their recycling containers. If there is
a risk of getting punished for doing the right thing and no risk if you don't
try to do the right thing, then guess which one I'm choosing.

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danschumann
This is likely a very old law, or old sentence. I wonder if more of our school
system could be focused on teaching people every single law that could screw
them over.

We learn the rules of math, science, etc, but not our own system?

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auggierose
Ideally, you would not allow people who don't have (additionally) Ph.D.'s in
either Math or Physics make laws, but that's not how the world currently
works.

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gnulinux
Why Math or Physics?

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RickJWag
Reminds me of the monetary damages levied against people who shared music
files.

There was a wrong-doing, but the punishment is excessive.

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jernfrost
Man the US just disgust me. Land of the free my ass. The amount of inhumane
policies is just staggering. The most brutal and unjust “justice” system in
the free world.

That American put up with this system is the biggest puzzle. It seems like the
only freedom Americans care about is to carry a gun. Any other freedom they
are cool with flushing down the toilet.

Sorry for the angry rant, I know there are lots of good and decent people in
the US, but how on earth can you stand by year after year and be so chill
about the inhumanity of the system?

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Consultant32452
>The most brutal and unjust “justice” system in the free world.

I generally agree with you about the state of our criminal justice system, but
I think you'll find US freedoms are a mixed bag when compared to the rest of
the "free world." If you take a step back from just our criminal justice
system, let's compare us to the UK. If you want to be more like them you'll
need to restrict abortions to the first trimester, lose your gun rights, lose
your free speech rights, lose separation of church and state, still can't vote
while in prison, gay marriage is a states rights issue (not available in
Northern Ireland), gain some consumer protections around privacy and returns,
censor the internet, and heavily weigh immigration towards "ability" based
candidates rather than "diversity."

>It seems like the only freedom Americans care about is to carry a gun.

The two rights I hear most about in the US are guns and abortion, but that's
because those two are the most consistently under attack. I think free speech
and privacy is going to be getting more mainstream attention soon because of
what's going on in the tech industry.

