
Ask HN: I’m visiting Bay Area and I dislike the “hacker” culture. Please help - oldboyFX
I understand the irony in posting this on “hacker”news but please bare with me.<p>I’m a 25 year old european developer&#x2F;designer. I’m visiting for obvious reasons (startup scene), and some less obvious (I dislike winter in Croatia). I’d like to get a feel for the area and see what all the fuss is about. Also do some networking, meet new people etc… the usual stuff. I&#x27;ll be staying for 2-3 months.<p>Unfortunately I have an issue. I dislike people who call themselves hackers, rockstars, ninjas, nomads etc. I don’t care about yoga, organic food, vegans, feminists or spirit animals. I dislike overuse of the word “community” and I think the whole “lifehacking” thing is retarded.<p>Online articles give me the impression that most of the techies in Bay Area are like this. Hipsterish, self absorbed, holier than thou, buying into hype&#x2F;industry fads etc.<p>Is this true?<p>I’d like to hear other’s opinions on this, especially from people who live in the Bay Area. I’ve never been there, so I’m judging based on online research. I could be totally wrong.<p>I’m the type of person who likes eating meat, drinking beer, talking about politics, money, science, entrepreneurship, programming etc.<p>My intention isn’t to be a hater. People are different, cultures  are different, that’s fine :-)<p>I’d just like to hear others opinions and get some advice. Like where should I stay during my visit, which meetups should I attend and so on. I’m on a budget and would prefer spending less than $2500&#x2F;month. I don’t mind living with roomates as long as they’re not rockstars. That’s a bit too loud for me :O<p>Edit: I&#x27;m not saying that everyone in the area is like that. Again, that&#x27;s the impression that I got from online research. I find it hard to believe and that&#x27;s why I opened this thread.
======
Rantenki
You are probably overthinking it. As a Canadian who visits the bay area on a
very regular basis for work (and lives in the backwoods in a community of 2000
people and takes a boat to get to a real airport), there is a jarring
disconnect between the media portrayal of bay area culture and the reality.

I too eat meat, drink beer, and talk about the same topics. You'll find that
is true of most "hackers" in the bay area too. The term hacker is used more
often as shorthand to describe somebody who is into technology without getting
into the details (software&hardware&ux).

I have seen precisely one person ever describe themselves as a rockstar, and
we rejected his job application for plagiarizing his code samples. Nobody in
the real world does this, and you're unlikely to get force-fed yoga,
lifehacking, etc.

There are still things that weird me out about the bay area, but overall I
really enjoy my time there. I encourage you to check out some tech meetups.

Oh. And Noisebridge and it's mailing list aren't representative of the larger
geek community in SFO either, just saying ;)

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kordless
> I think the whole “lifehacking” thing is retarded

Regardless of your general "help me understand the Bay" stance, this a HUGE
negative blaming statement that originates from you alone.

I live in the Bay. I regularly modify my diet to see how it affects my health.
I found out I'm allergic to gluten by testing its effects on making my ears
ring, stomach ache, etc. Riding my bike clears my mind like nothing else. Why
I do this, how I do it, talk about it, terms I use to refer to it and pretty
much anything else _I choose to do_ is up to me, and shouldn't be judged by
you unless it affects you directly, even if you did read it somewhere. Which
it doesn't, and you didn't.

I hear you when you want other opinions about the culture here, but as others
have stated, the Bay Area has a massive number of people in the technology
scene. We have compassion, asshats, brilliance, idiocy, over-achievers, under-
achievers, massive revenue generators, massive cash burners, and everything in
between. All from direct observations, FWIW.

If you want a good experience, then let all your expectations go and don't
worry about it. Seek out meaningful conversations and experiences and let what
will be, be.

In other words, come live in the moment, for a moment is all that you have
here.

I hope your stay is an enjoyable one. I, for one, love it here.

~~~
forgottenpass
Finding out how food and exercise affect your body and adjusting your behavior
accordingly is very different from what "lifehack" is in popular media.

Even if we ignore the bad ideas and generally superfluous stuff branded as
"lifehacks," the bare-bones of lifehacking is often steeped in the smug self-
righteousness of the Bay that is a throughline in OP's post.

~~~
kordless
A right click and click on define divulges lifehacking as "a strategy or
technique adopted in order to manage one's time and daily activities in a more
efficient way". Given gluten is a drain on my brain, and riding at a certain
time increases my clarity levels for creating, I'm going to strongly disagree
with you here.

I also have NFC tags on my desk and near the front door to speed the time it
takes to configure my phone for the commute to the city.

That there are some who are smug about their personal experiences practicing
things I practice is up to them. Expecting to ONLY find smugness because
people in the Bay (may) practice lifehacking is simply setting negative
expectations. Nothing more, nothing less.

~~~
grmarcil
Cool sounding NFC setup - have you written anywhere about that? Or do you mind
describing what the NFC points trigger on your phone here?

~~~
kordless
:) I use NFC Tools from the Google Play store + Whiztags with write
capabilities, not that's necessary for executing predefined phone actions.

The update to the Nexus 5 now allows you to use the tags for unlocking the
phone based on unique ID on an NFC tag as well.

------
rm999
I know exactly where you are coming from: a few years ago I decided I was
going to move to either SF or NYC from socal. I interviewed at a bunch of
places and spent time socializing in both cities, e.g. going to parties,
meeting friends of friends, etc. It was an involved decision that I made
carefully.

In the end, NYC was a no-brainer for me. I consistently found the bay area has
developed an homogenous culture that even pervaded my non-tech friends' lives.
People always asked the dreaded "so, what do you do?" way earlier than they
did in NYC. And unlike in NYC, I often felt like I was being judged for my
answer. I hated this because I like a strong work-life seperation. In NYC I
found there's less of a social "hierarchy" based on profession. At a typical
party you can meet an artist, an actor, a doctor, a hedge fund investor, and a
marketing executive, and all may kick ass at their jobs. I got exposed to an
insane amount of culture in NYC that I didn't see in SF.

Keep in mind that this is written from the perspective of a professional -
there are probably large parts of the two cities that culturally overlap.
Also, I'm not trying to say SF is a bad city, but it isn't for everyone.

~~~
oldboyFX
Thank you for the reply! I also prefer NY but as you said, the startup culture
is weak compared to SF. We'll see.

~~~
gargarplex
> the startup culture is weak compared to SF

I live in New York and I consider this a good thing.

------
logfromblammo
I'm an American developer, and I feel exactly the same way.

There is more than one "hacker" tradition in the US. For instance, Caltech
near Los Angeles, on the west coast, and MIT, near Boston, on the east coast,
have been rivals for a long time. They have different cultures.

As someone native to the Midwest, educated in the Mid-Atlantic, and currently
working in the South, it is readily apparent to me that there is no monolithic
American culture. I can't stand the Western hippy-dippy nonsense, the Southern
obsession with church and football, or any of the idiotic management fads that
affect my work culture.

But the San Francisco/Silicon Valley culture has massive amounts of cash
pumping through it at the moment, and bits of it are metastasizing elsewhere.
As a result, I have seen open-plan offices, complete with ping-pong tables and
people wearing shoes with separated toes, in places like Denver and Nashville.

What I really want is to see a company that hires for competence rather than
cultural fit, values aptitude over experience, and doesn't try to pretend to
be anything more than a place of business--where people go to do work, finish
it, and then leave.

I also like the things you like, and I dislike the winters in Wisconsin. It
would be very nice if there were a place other than Silicon Valley to enjoy
the networking effect, without the cultural trappings that are such a giant
turn-off to people elsewhere in the world, and even elsewhere in the US. But
if you're looking to get paid, you may just have to suppress your irritation
for a while.

------
angersock
First, don't believe everything you read. I'm willing to bet the majority of
devs in the SF startup seen are relatively quiet, very overworked, and not
overly political (unless, say, trying to pick up a member of the preferred
gender).

Second, it's not like you're going to have a vegan feminist drum-circle (to
use your own caricature) pounding away in your coworking space while you're
trying to get work done. I wouldn't worry about that.

Third, your self-description should be able to fit in perfectly. Again,
regardless of what it might seem like on the internet, there aren't roving
bands of evil liberals looking to go all Clockwork Orange on you if you're at
a Starbucks listening to a Glenn Beck podcast or whatever. Most people just
don't give a shit.

Fourth, please reconsider posting like this. You paint with a really wide
brush, and not only does it make you seem like an internet right-winger (which
may not actually be true), it also reeks of ignorance of getting along with
other people and being open-minded and excited to meet cultures outside of
your comfort zone.

Lastly, if you want to visit a place with real diversity and make that money
stretch (seriously, that's like 3 months rent here), check out Houston. Or
Austin. Or Dallas.

------
mtmail
Remember 8 million people live the Bay Area so the scene is diverse. I'd say
more than 5 million of those don't care about technology or startups at all.
What you read online is the few who shout the loudest and promote themselves
or their idea.

------
smtddr
_> >My intention isn’t to be a hater. People are different, cultures are
different, that’s fine :-)_

 _> > I dislike people who call themselves hackers, rockstars, ninjas, nomads
etc. I don’t care about yoga, organic food, vegans, feminists or spirit
animals. I dislike overuse of the word “community” and I think the whole
“lifehacking” thing is retarded._

~~~
slayed0
Actively being a "hater" is very different from politely listing groups or
ideologies that you are trying to avoid.

~~~
smeyer
And describing something you try to avoid as "retarded" is not exactly
"polite".

------
calbear81
There's definitely the stereotypical "hacker"/techie person you mention in San
Francisco and Silicon Valley but there's also every other type of person you
can imagine. Generally we have a "live and let live" mentality so people are
free to be who they want, even if it's offensive to you.

Regarding some specific comments:

Hipsterish - Yeah, we are hipsterish because we think of ourselves as trendy.
We also are more laid back than New York so t-shirts, jeans, sweatpants,
sandals, are all a-ok with us.

Yoga - What's wrong with liking yoga? Stretching and meditation have been
shown to help clear the mind and improve your mental wellness.

Organic Food - We are the pioneers of the organic food movement and have some
of the best food in the world. It's just silly to hate organic food on the
basis that it's pesticide free. People are passionate about their causes here
so they take it to extremes.

Feminists - Okay, not touching this one with a ten-foot pole.

Spirit Animals - I'm not sure where this stereotype came from but I have to
admit I have had multiple conversations at different parties about what
everyone's spirit animal is.

Roam around the Bay Area, it's a big place, and you'll find people you are
interested in hanging out with. You'll find more diversity in Oakland if
that's what you're looking for (although there's probably more feminists and
activists as well). Stay away from Berkeley because Yoga + Organic Food.

Enjoy your stay.

~~~
forgottenpass
_Yoga - What 's wrong with liking yoga?_

Nothing is wrong with yoga the activity. Just like nothing is wrong with
owning a gun, flying the flag, or living in Georgia. But tell me with a strait
face that "gun toting, flag waving, Georgia boy" doesn't conjure the image of
a person that is more than the sum of those parts.

~~~
pizza
Sure it does, but is that reason enough for dismissal?

------
famousactress
TL/DR: I'm pretty sure everyone in [insert group/place] are a specific kind of
asshole and I'm looking for a _different_ kind of asshole to surround myself
with. Please help!

You're talking about close to a million people, maybe chill the fuck out and
show up with more of an open mind. Or like, don't.

[Edit]

Uggh. I should probably leave the comment alone, but I feel bad about it so
I'll try to add something more constructive. Like every large-enough
subculture, the startup-scene tropes have some truth to them but it's still a
very large and diverse set of people and ideas. If anything, I feel like the
tendency toward a hyped up monoculture has receded in the last couple of years
(somewhere in 2011 it seemed like we hit peak-food-photo-founder-rockstar).

I don't live in SF but I work for a startup there and travel up there a lot.
All told, it's a really incredible city and while there's plenty about the
startup culture to find fault in, it remains true that there are is an
incredible density of really smart and motivated people there passionately
working on stuff.

No apparent shortage of meat or beer, either. You can probably go a full day
without being forced to eat tofu.

------
brandonhsiao
Don't worry; people in the Bay Area are annoyed by people who call themselves
rockstars and ninjas too. As for what you're reading online, of course some
people are like that, but in my experience they are for the most part not the
interesting ones anyway. The best people I know don't care for fashions.

How are meat, beer, and broad discussions antithetical to your perception of
how people in the Bay Area live?

~~~
oldboyFX
> How are meat, beer, and broad discussions antithetical to your perception of
> how people in the Bay Area live?

I'm not saying it's antithetical, I was just trying to describe myself.

~~~
brandonhsiao
Oh, all right, I misunderstood.

------
ocharles
I don't have any advice, but you seem to suggest that the whole "scene" is
problematic. Ignoring that is a massive sweeping statement, perhaps consider
if _you_ are causing yourself to be the problem - you've already decided
you're not interested in meeting anyone here, because you've already formed
opinions. You might do better to take it as you find it.

~~~
oldboyFX
Ofcourse I'm interested in meeting people there. Yes I formed some opinions
but they might be totally wrong.

I just want to hear what people think about this subject.

------
cblock811
Hey there,

I would be happy to show you around, introduce you to some good people, etc.
if you like. I have a car and can take you to some places outside the
immediate SF area (plus it gives me an excuse to drive somewhere). Always
happy to show people around :) My contact info is on my profile.

~~~
oldboyFX
Haha, I'll probably take you up on that offer..

~~~
cblock811
Sounds good. Just have something clear for your email subject so I know who
you are :)

------
forgottenpass
Asking here is a mistake. Living in the culture of the Bay normalizes you to
the idiosyncrasies that stand out to outsiders.

Like any loose collective, the techies in the bay will allow themselves to be
labeled as a subculture when their ego is getting stroked. But if pressed with
a criticism you'll find that they're just a diverse group of people that may
share a profession and hobby or two but can't possibly be a considered a
subculture with general defining traits. And neither way to see them is wrong.

The good news is that the prominent attitudes are not shared by everyone, or
even most people. The bad news is that the people that exhibit them are
annoyingly prominent. And everyone worth knowing has a coping strategy to
blend in.

------
dylanrw
Normally you'll only see that behavior if you eavesdrop at a coffee shop,
visit some startup's office (not all are like this), end up working in a co-
working space, or couch surfing at a hacker hostel of some sort (these are
normally whipped together by 4+ people renting a giant house and trying to
split rent).

Visit the bay area, enjoy the good food. Find a way to head into any of the
surrounding hills for a nice hike. Visit the computer museum. Have some coffee
at the Philz on Middlefield Road. Enjoy your time there.

------
dllthomas
There surely _exist_ people such as you describe, but I think they're far less
prevalent than you might worry. Amongst techies I know in the area, maybe 40%
have at least one of the negative (from your perspective) attributes you've
listed; I don't think I know anyone personally to whom they all apply, and _"
the type of person who likes eating meat, drinking beer, talking about
politics, money, science, entrepreneurship, programming etc."_ could describe
most of my friends.

------
eli
I think if you go in expecting to have a bad time, it may become self-
fulfilling. Maybe focus more on the things you like and less on the things you
hate?

------
area51org
The media portrayal of the Bay Area and of California itself is wildly
misguided and wrong. Like all stereotypes, the image of the vegan "rockstar"
self-important hacker has a basis in reality, but it's a cartoonish
exaggeration.

 _I’m the type of person who likes eating meat, drinking beer, talking about
politics, money, science, entrepreneurship, programming etc._

You'll find plenty of company.

------
pascal1us
I've lived in the bay area for 10+ years as a Software Engineer and follow all
the local news. But i don't get the sense that the things you mentioned are
more popular than the other stuff you said you like. There's lots of people
here who like talking about politics, money, science and drinking beer. It's
not nearly as white and black here as you imagine.

------
smackfu
I think you're a bit caught up in stereotypes, to be honest. There aren't many
people who are all those things you think you dislike. If you meet someone
cool, and then they happen to be a vegan, what's your plan? Argue that they
suck?

I'd say, you are going to somewhere new. Keep an open mind. You might find out
you like some of this stuff.

------
AlexBlom
I went through a similar thing in my first few trips to the Bay area, and
ultimately decided to not move there for the same reasons.

I've found subsequent trips to be much easier. Unfortunately, the most vocal
and easiest to meet within the community were the most abrasive / kool aid
driven. Keep digging.

------
jtfairbank
We're moving to the bay area from the midwest for 6 months, starting January
first. If you want to grab coffee sometime, shoot me an email and I'll
introduce you to my team. Email address in profile.

We work on enterprise MedTech web-apps in the healthcare administration field.

~~~
oldboyFX
Sure. :) Wrote down your username.

------
brickmort
For what it's worth, You sound alot like me, but I've never visited
California. On the other hand, I've lived in New York my entire life and I
love it.

Come visit New York and see how you like it!

------
eastsideatx
Spending less than $2,500/month may require some lifehacking IMO

~~~
oldboyFX
I guess I deserved that :P

~~~
eastsideatx
On a side note, I find the term life-hacking, and it's strange cousin travel-
hacking pretty annoying as well.

A friend of mine tried to 'travel-hack' SXSW by renting a U-Haul and
attempting to stay there instead of renting a hotel...

He forgot that it: (A) might be pretty chilly and (B) would remain unlocked,
unless he wanted someone to lock him in and unlock him in the morning.

Needless to say he ended up crashing on the floor of my house, which really is
a much better and long-standing 'travel-hack' to begin with.

------
lanstein
If you were here already I'd invite you to PagerDuty's 12 Pubs of Christmas
tonight. We don't have any rockstars. Anyone is welcome - we start around 5:30
at Red Dog.

~~~
oldboyFX
That sounds mighty fine :O

------
whistlerbrk
> I’m the type of person who likes eating meat, drinking beer, talking about
> politics, money, science, entrepreneurship, programming etc.

Honestly sounds like the NYC culture is more your thing

------
carapace
It sounds like California might be wasted on you. You might like Edinburgh (in
Scotland.) Seriously, though, you'll find what you look for wherever you go.
;-)

------
cjfarivar
Totally affordable if you live in Oakland. :-)

(Disclosure: I live in Oakland.)

------
pascal1us
I had to look up "life hacking" \- its not nearly as prevalent here as you
imagine. But, why would you not like something that makes life easier?

------
d--b
Just move to New York already, lots of meat, beer, politics and money, and a
common hatred for the West coast. Sorry about the winter though.

------
gargarplex
Yeah, come to New York. You belong here.

------
sysk
> I don’t care about yoga, organic food, vegans, feminists or spirit animals.

You forgot standing desks :)

~~~
oldboyFX
I actually find those useful :O Guess I'm a hacker now.

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tzakrajs
Do you want money or not? Also, $2500/mo is unrealistic.

