
Paul Buchheit: Did anyone else notice that TechStars and Y-Combinator have the same application? - paul
http://paulbuchheit.blogspot.com/2007/03/anyone-else-notice-that-techstars-and-y.html
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rms
Techstars is a clear second to Y Combinator. But there's nothing wrong it.
They have a solid program lined up. Yes, the application is completely
plagiarized. PG, did they ask permission or did they just do it?

Regardless, the YC application is pretty much perfect for this type of
program, so I can understand that they didn't want to mess with something that
worked. Plagiarism is a high form of flattery. The three or four changed or
new questions make the TS application worse than the YC one, they shouldn't
have bothered.

A venture capitalist is one of the founders of TS -- PG sees that as a
negative but it could make it easier to get money from a friendly venture
capitalist or provide insight into the notoriously obtuse mind of a VC.

TS also has more than one session a week. I see that additional structure as a
good thing but I'm sure PG would argue that it's taking time away from
hacking.

The website of each company certainly shows a difference in mentality -- YC is
stylized minimalism, TS is over the top web design you get when you pay
someone too much to design you a site.

So what should you do? Apply to both. Don't sell yourself short. Boulder's a
nice city. So is Boston (even though the trains don't run past midnight).

~~~
pg
No, of course they didn't ask permission to copy the application form. And
it's not just the application form. Reading their site is a freaky experience,
because I keep coming across bits and pieces of my own thoughts, and even
idioms.

I'm a bit indignant about the whole operation, actually. I feel like J. K.
Rowling would feel if she came across a book that was set at a boarding school
for kids with magical powers, with a hero called Henry Potter, who lived with
his disagreeable non-magical ("moggle") step-parents, his own parents having
been killed by the evil Valdemort...

~~~
MobileDigit
Even as someone that rejects intellectual property as invalid, I suppose I can
understand why you are displeased.

However, as for your example, why would anyone buy such a book unless it
explored new stories or otherwise filled a void in the market?

~~~
jw
The book analogy falls apart here, because only a limited number of people are
accepted to YC or TS, while a (practically) unlimited number of people can
read Harry Potter. The existence of two YC-like programs doesn't significantly
decrease the amount of interest per program, especially since you can apply to
both. It does, however, significantly increase (approx double) the number of
entrepreneurs funded, and the competition may encourage YC to improve its
program further.

As for your book example comment, if somebody wrote Henry Potter, I imagine
lots of people would read it. The story in each new Harry Potter book isn't
new and exciting either... it's the same story, new details. Also, just
because Harry Potter was the most popular series with that story line doesn't
mean there's no demand for other similar books.

~~~
pg
We don't accept a fixed number of applicants. We'll fund anyone who seems good
enough. If we suddenly got 30 great applications, we''d accept them all, and
worry later about how to cram them all into our space.

------
python_kiss
I think TechStars made three mistakes:

1\. Low publicity.

2\. Asked too many questions (i.e. what does it mean to be an entrepreneur?)

3\. Deadline too soon.

They should've kept the deadline for applications at April 12th since by that
time, all YC applicants will know if they have been accepted/rejected. The
rejected ones could then apply at TechStars. This is not necessarily a bad
thing since YC only picks 15 teams, while leaving a big pool of other great
startup ideas and founders behind.

I have had phone conversations with numerous entrepreneurs on news.yc, and
almost all of them plan on applying to TechStars while keeping YC as their
first option.

TechStars could have, for marketing purposes, used aikido strategy and turn
Y-Combinator's strength into weakness: since TechStars is new, they could've
claimed that they place greater focus on the startups they fund as a way to
prove their model superior to YC. A lot of people would've bought into that
argument.

Having competition actually validates Y-Combinator's business model. While two
similar programs may not be good for either parties, it is definitely good for
the prospective founders.

~~~
abossy
It's great that support for young entrepreneurs is expanding. The
entrepreneurial world is a brutal one and you want as many people on your side
as possible.

Because I live in Colorado (but go to college in Austin), I'm surprised I
hadn't heard about this before -- despite it launching about 4 months ago.
Boulder is an awesome town, and you have the Rocky Mountains all around.

Regardless of the detrimental effect the attraction of nearby ski resorts
could have on a startup (which also makes it a great place to live), I feel
that Denver's/Boulder's weakness is that there aren't universities with better
computer science programs. All the major startup hubs have excellent
universities nearby whose talent they can feed off of:

Cambridge: MIT, Harvard Silicon Valley: Stanford, Berkeley Seattle: University
of Washington Austin: University of Texas

(Darn -- After visiting PG's website, I realize I am re-iterating what he says
this in his essay, "How To Be Silicon Valley.")

I can see this first-hand, attending the University of Texas. I've interviewed
with many startups, and you can see how they're student quality is evident in
the company's work.

I would imagine this is true even moreso in the better CS programs like MIT
and Stanford, and double that with towns that have two great programs.

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zaidf
I have been following Brad Feld's blog longer than any other blog. For sure
TechStar has a solid lineup and I am sure the entrepreneur pool is larger than
what YCombinator and TechStar can support together meaning there shouldn't be
any lunch stealing between the two.

My biggest problem at the moment with TechStar is their 5% non-negotiable
valuation. I understand they want to keep it simple and totally respect that.
But that does not take away the unfairness of things when you give the same
valuation to a start-up that is already operating and a start-up that is only
an idea. I am sure going forward they will adjust that.

-Zaid 

~~~
Elfan
Is there something you like particularly about his web log or other reason you
have been following it?

For reference here is where he introduces TechStars:
<http://www.feld.com/blog/archives/002136.html>

Does anyone know what programs besides YC he is talking about?

~~~
zaidf
There was this traditional VC firm that started something modled after
YCombinator. But even then, they required a business plan and fund minimum
250,000 so they must be targeting another audience than YCombinator. They were
featured in Wall St Journal along with quotes from Paul Graham too if I
remember right.

I came across Brad's blog while reading a post where he stresses good UI.
Since then I have found to enjoy his insights though at the moment I would say
Brad's askthevc.com is a more useful read than feld.com

------
ecuzzillo
I think YC was bound to attract clones, although I don't think it was bound to
attract clones quite this clonelike. YC has created a new investment stage,
and a new niche for investment companies (which is to say, the seed-funding-
plus-advice niche), and I don't think it's particularly surprising that there
are more companies entering that market. I would bet that YC is going to be a
bit like the Sequoia of seed/advice firms, and that most other such firms will
enter the market because they see YC's success, fail to make money, but
continue to operate, much like most VCs don't make money.

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brett
From their app: "What does entrepreneurship mean to you?"

Seriously? Does TechStars come with a free team building retreat?

~~~
pg
That was one of the three questions they didn't copy from ours.

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nickb
I guess times are tough. What did Hunter S Thomson used to say... "when the
going gets weird, the weird turn pro."

Brad Feld, the all knowing VC prophet, left Mobius Capital after Mobius
cratered and now he's trolling for scraps with "borrowed" equipment. He used
to do deals for millions and now he's throwing $10Ks around. Sad.

<http://valleywag.com/tech/brad-feld/feld-folds-vc-blogger-brad-feld-goes-
silent-199802.php>

~~~
zaidf
May be you should do your homework. Brad's pretty heavily invested in
potential hits such as FeedBurner and TechStar is led by David Cohen and is
more of a side thing(it appears) for Brad.

I am personally biased in favor of people who take time to reply to strangers
seeking advice. Paul Graham, Brad Feld, Seth Godin and few others are great
examples of folks you can write to and expect some valuable words of wisdom in
return.

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Alex3917
Having to listen to all those speakers would be extremely annoying. If you
aren't intellectually curious enough to read through all the books and blogs
written on these subjects on your own, then you're probably the kind of person
who should be working for someone else. There is a reason why so many
entrepreneurs drop out of school...

Plus, their website makes them look really creepy.

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staunch
A group of people who copied someone else's funding idea verbatim are supposed
to be good at picking original ideas?

------
ericwan
Despite Techstars' copying of YC's approach, it definitely is an appreciation
of YC as a viable business model. And it is a great thing for student
entrepreneurs unless, as people may suggest, a VC-run YC copycat do
entrepreneurs more harm than good.

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yc1
ok here is a problem:

Say you have a great idea (don't we all :))

But we don't know if either TechStars or Y-Combinator will actually accept our
idea so to hedge our bets we apply to both. (of course YC is first option).

Now TechStars will send their results on Apr 5 and the deadline to accept, I
think is Apr14 . This is before the Apr22 date when YC decides which companies
it will fund.

So on Apr14: if you are one of the really good ideas that both TechStars and
YC like - because of the timeline - you get into a dilema: if u say no to
TechStars there is no guarantee that YC will accept u but if u say yes to
TechStars - then u give up on your first choice without even getting a chance
to hear the YC results.

Seems like a cunning way for TechStars to get all the best ideas this summer
before YC can get them. (I bet they try to pull this off every six months to
try and steal all the best ideas...)

So, YC needs think about how to solve this potential issue - (maybe bringin
the dates of their decisions??)

~~~
pyc
I think this is going to backfire. Some of the start-ups they want will say no
just because they are waiting on YC, then when YC turns them down, TS will
have missed out on one of their top choices who now will have to seek a THIRD
source of funding.

Smart money is for that third VC to pick up YC's 9th through 16th choices, and
any of TS's top 8 that turned them down waiting on a YC acceptance that never
came through.

------
Elfan
TechStars almost sounds too good to be true. What's the catch?

There's no catch. You can do this!

~~~
paul
Is that a quote from their site?

~~~
Elfan
Yes. I didn't want to just dismiss these guys, it looks like they are new,
going through some growing pains, and trying something interesting. However,
the mix of Y Combinator hacker talk with bright flashy graphics is just
disconcerting. That quote was the most over the top part of the site.

I look forward to seeing in the future to see if they can evolve into a niche
besides YC or decide to directly compete.

~~~
jw
I agree the site is way over the top and disconcerting. When I loaded the main
page it just felt like they were trying way too hard to sell me something. It
looks more like an ad for the 4th of July sale at Macy's than a startup
funder. Either that or an ad for Citizen's bank, I cant' decide. It's a stark
contrast with the YC site, where you have to read a bit to figure out what's
going on. I don't think they need to be worried about getting people to apply,
they're giving out free money after all...

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zach
"Over 30 of the best entrepreneurial minds in Colorado" seems like a lot
(especially for Colorado). Is this an educational experience or capitalist
enterprise for the founders?

------
wastedbrains
Yes which was odd. Their video was also rather scary. They do have a few
interesting people involved in the project.

------
dfens
I wonder what the odds are of a TechStar startup competing with a YC startup?
That could be interesting.

