

Ask HN: What approach would you take in my situation? - pawn

First, a little background into myself, then I'll tell you my story.<p>I've been working a corporate job for 6 1/2 years and have been interested in trying to do a startup for a large majority of it.  My biggest obstacle has been that all of my friends are either happy with their job or uncomfortable with the risk associated with a startup.<p>So, last Friday my cousin calls me out of the blue and says he's got a website idea.  We get to talking, and he explains that he and a friend of his have this idea but don't have the technical know-how to do it.  He explains the idea then asks if it sounds like something I'd be capable of.  He originally presents the idea as if he'd contract the development out.  I tell him it does sound like something I could do and that I might be interested in partnering with them. So, he arranges to further discuss the idea in person with his friend.  We met today.<p>The idea has promise, but there were some things that set off flags for me.  Would they set off flags for you?  One, the friend didn't seem to place much stock in a technical co-founder.  His offer was 10%, with the logic that he was taking more risks in going after the money and that somebody he talked to said they could built the site for $7000 and walk away.  I replied back that not having a technical co-founder would probably be a bad idea for him,and that before meeting him, I was thinking we'd all be equal but wondered if 20% might be closer to acceptable for them.  He replied that the two of them would need to talk about it.  The other thing that was discussed before that was whether he had any intention of seeking VC or angel money to be able to pay me to work full time.  They didn't plan on going that route, and were hoping I could work on it on the side while continuing my full-time job, though they were hoping that I might still be able to finish it within a few months if at all possible.  There was more in the discussion about the idea itself, a little brainstorming, and at the end we ended with the two of them saying they'd talk to each other and get back with me.<p>So, at this point, if you were in my shoes, do you think you'd move forward with these two or walk away?  Was I being selfish or selling myself short?
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JoeCortopassi
Simple math: \--Are you comfortable working for $70/hour? \--Do you think this
can be built/polished/updated in 100 hours? $7,000 / $70 = 100 hours

\-- Can this idea be sold relatively quickly for $70,000? \-- Will you be
willing to wait for your pay-off? $7,000 is %10 of $70,000

Honestly though, sounds like you will be treated as a second rate citizen the
entire time while also doing the majority work. If you're cool with that,
that's your business. If you just want to start a start-up, but don't have any
ideas, email me and I can help you come up with some ideas.

Lastly, family and business don't mix. If either party isn't _completely_
satisfied with how the process turns out, you ( and your family ) will hear
about it for the rest of your lives.

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kjksf
Ask yourself: WWZD?

Immediately start implementing the website.

Negotiate with them for as long as possible, so they don't hire outside help.

After promising them (verbally, no written communication) to start working on
the website, don't do any work. When they ask about progress, be evasive.

Launch the website, owning 100% of it.

Profit.

~~~
phlux
This is legit advice.

I'd like to offer some names for your project: ConnectBook.com or conbook.com
maybe even facecon.com

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zbruhnke
Honestly, if it would take you a couple months to implement it full time and
they think they can get it for $7k otherwise its probably not a realistic
estimate on their part and you'll never be respected for what you brought to
the table. An idea is not worth 80% and making it come to life certainly isn't
worth 20% if you truly want to do a startup you have a community right here to
find friends and make connections.

You can set up a repository and both work remotely part time to see if it
works out.

My point is mainly this, you are the only thing stopping you from doing a
startup, so just do it.

But their idea (even if it's a good one) is not the only one that is a
feasible startup so why work on it when you know going into it youre going to
be under appreciated from day one.

Just my $.02

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tikna
With this attitude, they will hardly succeed. I've been through this situation
in the past.

You will be blamed for 100% of the stuff going wrong on technical side, and
will be given 10%. Moreover, I don't think you will be able to keep yourself
motivated with this kind of attitude within the team. You won't be a
considered co-founder, just a technical guy to finish thing off. Remember
"Ideas are worthless".

Don't settle for 10%, not even 20%. Its not about money, but how much they
value your work. Coming up with an idea is not a big deal, but execution is.

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lacker
It might be useful for some money, if he's paying up front. But the equity is
probably not worth anything. All they have is an idea. Their contribution
isn't worth 50%, much less 90% of the startup.

If you want to start a startup, you are better off going to hacker meetups, or
getting a job at another startup in order to gain more relevant experience and
connections.

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benologist
It doesn't sound like they put much, or any real value on what you'll be
doing. Let them go with the $7k guy, if you want to do a startup then do your
own.

~~~
wh-uws
Let them go with the $7k guy, fail when they realize that a technology
_business_ is way bigger than an idea

Then they'll come back with a better offer

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learc83
What are they going to be doing? Does either one have any business skill at
all? Is there any reason to believe they are capable of running the business
while you handle the development side. Is one of them a designer, or an expert
on the subject-matter?

If not, then it's really just a guy with an idea and I'll give you 10% to
build it. That would definitely be a no for me. I'm probably approached about
once a month by a friend who has a great idea for a website. They don't
realize that I have way more great ideas than I have time to build them.

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BasilAwad
Pawn, don't be a pawn! The only way I could justify him giving you 20% is if
he has customers _secured_. Secured means money in the bank account and not
verbal commitments.

And I'm not sure I understand him saying he has more risks. Is he putting more
hours selling than you coding? Is he committing capital? Is he quitting his
job?

I have a project I'm currently looking for an equal technical co-founder.
email me if you're interested.

------
dstein
Walk. These guys are amateurs looking for an easy ride after watching The
Social Network.

~~~
yid
Um.. Which business type character in the social network got an easy ride?

~~~
dstein
The Winklevoss brothers.

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noonespecial
As long as they actually believe that they'll get, well, anything at all
really for $7000, then that's what they're valuing your contribution at. Its
not surprising at all that they would offer you 10% for this $7k "investment".
They probably feel that they're being generous and doing you a favor.

Until your cuz and his friend get some grounding in the real world of web
development, I'd steer well clear.

------
gyardley
Unless these two people have a ridiculous amount of skills you're not
mentioning, I wouldn't touch this with a twenty-foot-pole for any amount of
equity.

It certainly sounds from your note like they don't know what they're doing,
and will end up dooming your company before it starts.

Besides, as mentioned elsewhere in the thread, this guy is family. This
situation likely ends with you mutually hating each other. Who needs that?

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chipsy
They aren't doing fair business. Either they have customers or funding lined
up, or you take an even split.

A guy who gets paid $7000 to build the site is not the guy that keeps the
servers running, is not the guy that backs up the database, is not the guy who
organizes further engineering efforts should the site take off.

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dman
I think you shouldnt waste anytime working in a startup on/with a idea/team
that you dont believe in. Youre potentially going to be taking a lot of risk
by going the startup route - an unimplemented idea from your cousin's friend
is probably worth a week or two of brainstorming. I would say walk away.

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pawn
Thank you all for your feedback. The overwhelming majority of you seem to be
telling me the things I was thinking before, but not necessarily sold 100% on.
I was concerned that I might be biased towards thinking the technical side is
the majority of the work merely because I'm a developer, but you all seem to
be of the same opinion.

For those asking about the other guys' contribution, they were essentially
saying that they had potential investors who said they were interested in
investing, but wanted to see a product first. Not exactly money in the bank,
but a little better than nothing at all. I don't know how sound the logic is,
but the "risk" on their part was stated to be financial, while mine would be
time.

Once again, thank you all for your advice. You've certainly helped.

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davetong
An idea without execution isn't worth anything.

You'll be doing all the work up front and then all the work maintaining and
improving.

You're also not a flight risk as it sounds like you're in it for the long
haul.

They also sound like they're not convinced, which means they either haven't
though it through or they're not worth the risk.

Good luck with the decision. I would vote a no for them as it sounds like you
deserve better and if you keep looking, you'll find some cofounders worth
taking the startup risk with.

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sixtofour
Use the spare time that you would have given them, for 10% of failure, to
build your own side project, then either build that into a business or
leverage the experience for the next thing.

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petervandijck
Lack of understanding of the value of technology and execution that shows from
the discussion you described would be a HUGE red flag for me.

I wouldn't move ahead with a team like this that has no experience and little
understanding of what's needed to be successful.

------
geekzgalore
[http://marcgrabanski.com/articles/long-live-the-hacker-
entre...](http://marcgrabanski.com/articles/long-live-the-hacker-
entrepreneurs)

------
13Psibies
Take cash up front. Be professional about delivering. Make sure that the rate
appropriately values all your weekends and evenings.

Keep your day job.

These guys don't know anything: having their $7000 developer "walk away" is a
disaster and they think it's a feature.

What happens in the future is anyone's guess, but the mostly likely outcome is
that nothing happens. The next most likely is that something modest happens.
Etc. Many of the eventualities will require continued development; you're the
first choice and you'll have the upper hand.

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crasshopper
And the very next day: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2579668>

