
In Memoriam: Ian Murdock - spb
http://blog.docker.com/2015/12/ian-murdock/
======
dang
We've closed this thread to comments by new accounts because of trolls.

If you have a new account and want to comment here, you're welcome to email us
at hn@ycombinator.com.

------
dankohn1
I worked with Ian when he was CTO and I was COO of the Linux Foundation. With
the Executive Director, Jim Zemlin, and a few others, we helped build the LF
from the challenging merger of OSDL and the Free Standards Group.

He was thoughtful, funny, hard working, and incredibly well-connected in the
free (and commercial) software communities. I will miss him.

------
spb
Also, for those who weren't previously acquainted: Ian was the "ian" in
Debian, the Linux distro he created which is the basis for Ubuntu. He started
work at Docker in November, which is why they are publishing this.

~~~
raverbashing
> the Linux distro he created which is the basis for Ubuntu

I'm sure this sounds as vinyl scratching to a lot of ears

Debian stands on its own, though that statement is correct

~~~
vezzy-fnord
It's probably the single most ported distribution, from a variety of remixes
for desktop, netbook and recovery uses alike to usually being the first target
for every microcontroller and single-board.

~~~
cookiecaper
Debian even had a BSD flavor for a while.
[https://www.debian.org/ports/kfreebsd-
gnu/](https://www.debian.org/ports/kfreebsd-gnu/)

~~~
vezzy-fnord
kFreeBSD is still alive, though not a formal Debian port.

------
xtat
I like this better than the docker post.
[https://bits.debian.org/2015/12/mourning-ian-
murdock.html](https://bits.debian.org/2015/12/mourning-ian-murdock.html)

~~~
BuckRogers
Ongoing discussion on the HN post that promotes the Debian source
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10813826](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10813826)

------
segmondy
It really bothers me that traces of someone's existence can be wiped out with
a mouse click, be it on twitter, google, facebook, or other sites. I read the
tweets while this was going on, I was hoping he would find some other means to
cope and raise awareness, and to hear that he actually went through with it.
:-( I go to reread and see if there's anything I might have missed and his
twitter page is gone as if he never existed.

~~~
coldpie
I agree. But I can't blame him for not wanting to involuntarily dedicate his
life to fighting this bullshit. Given the choice between fighting a vastly
corrupt and hostile police force, facing merciless prosecutors, being covered
by the media, many of whom are hostile, being judged and discussed online,
losing the career that you spent your life building, and never being able to
leave any of that behind... and not having to deal with any of that? I don't
know. I can understand how one in that situation would make this choice,
especially in the heat of the moment. Aaron Schwartz made the same call.

It's a tragedy. I desperately hope we get more information.

~~~
dinkumthinkum
I'm sure it's more complicated than that. I doubt there was any real career
ending situation that was about to occur due to police or anything else.

------
minimaxir
Previous thread about Ian Murdock:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10803924](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10803924)

This news is, tragically, new information. :(

~~~
gall
Would the increase in time critical public awareness had that thread not been
deleted have made a difference? Perhaps the chance that it could should
outweigh the urge for propriety in future admin decisions.

~~~
jacquesm
That's an impossible thing to do right, you let it it it might turn ugly, you
take it down you get this. Dang made the right call here, I've been in that
position several times with camarades/ww.com and it is extremely un-nerving.
The problem is that since the authorities were the apparent main cause of the
problem here there would likely not be much positive effect from alerting them
(something I did do in the cases where it might have made a difference and in
at least one of those it did).

Police are one of the more blunt instruments in the toolbox. What possibly
would have helped if someone close to Ian spotted this and would have done
something about it but one can easily imagine that those people all follow
Ians twitter feed and would already be better informed than any of us.

Secondguessing is easy.

------
Quasimoto3000
Is this at all related to his statement on suicide and police brutality? What
was the cause of death?

Source: [http://techaeris.com/2015/12/28/debian-founder-ian-
murdocks-...](http://techaeris.com/2015/12/28/debian-founder-ian-murdocks-
tweets-raising-eyebrows/)

~~~
kragen
It's a good bet that, when a young person in a highly-developed country dies
and the announcements about them do not give a cause of death, they killed
themselves. Given that he was white and had announced an intention to kill
himself the night before, it's almost an open-and-shut case.

~~~
mrschwabe
This seems to have unfolded rapidly and the details are very light so I would
like to suggest that no, this is not 'almost' an open and shut case.

------
eddieroger
This is terrible. I met Ian when we worked at the same company for a bit, and
he was a great man by my interactions with him. Just heartbreaking to read.

He went on a tirade the other night on Twitter after what he reported was a
run-in with the police. The tweets got more incoherent as the evening went on,
but it read like he was backing down from suicide. Since the linked release
doesn't say that and it looks like he closed his Twitter, I guess we don't
really know what went down. He also doesn't seem to have published the
promised blog post. What a shame. I wish he'd found the help he was looking
for.

~~~
erjjones
Really sad ...

------
xtat
Ian was one of the kindest folks I've ever met. The tweets leading up to his
death are troubling and I hope we get some answers
[http://pastebin.com/yk8bgru5](http://pastebin.com/yk8bgru5)

------
r721
>Michael Morisy filed this request with the Federal Bureau of Investigation of
the United States of America.

>From: Michael Morisy

>Subject: None

>To Whom It May Concern:

>This is a request under the Freedom of Information Act. I hereby request the
following records:

>A copy of the FBI's files on computer programmer Ian Murdock (28 April 1973 –
28 December 2015).

[https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-
america-10/fbi...](https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-
america-10/fbi-files-on-ian-murdock-23124/)

~~~
huac
Is it common practice for the govt to release FBI files on people? Or, if it
is, with this little delay?

~~~
driverdan
Once someone dies anyone can submit a FOIA request for their records.

------
spang
Super sad to hear about this, as the Debian project has been hugely
influential on my life. (It's the reason I went to MIT and became a software
engineer.) Rest in peace, Ian.

~~~
davidw
My involvement in Debian is part of what helped me become a programmer too. I
didn't go to college for CS, so finding a group of smart people to learn from
was hugely influential.

------
ianamartin
I have little to say about this.

It's incredibly sad, whatever happened. I've felt the loss from many people in
my life leaving too soon. We all have. Sometimes it's suicide, sometimes it's
a car accident. Sometimes it's cancer. Sometimes people just get old and die.
Sometimes people get mugged by thugs. Or Police. Maybe there isn't a
difference between the last two.

But it doesn't matter right now. The process of justice is a slow-moving
wheel. Sometimes it doesn't move at all. Sometimes it moves the wrong way.

For better or worse, that wheel is not in the hacker community's hands. Keep
records, remember what you saw happening. But it's far too soon to expect
anything concrete.

Instead, I think it's reasonable to think of what the family has to say. At
least for right now.

So I offer this:

I use Ian Murdock's work every day at my job and every evening when I'm just
playing around with stuff.

Debian has been the single most important technology that propelled and
directed my career and my creative life since I started creating things with
technology.

This person, who I never had the opportunity to meet, affected my life in
amazing ways by giving me tools I never had and didn't have the ability to
imagine.

Thank you, Ian Murdock.

------
goddess_divine
My heart goes out to his friends and family. The pain he was in must have been
unbearable. I'm so sad that he felt this was the best way to find peace. It's
a great loss to the community. _hugs_

------
cs702
Very sad.

We all owe him a debt of gratitude for the creation of Debian, the most widely
used GNU/Linux distribution today.[1]

Does anyone here actually know what happened?

\--

[1] Ubuntu is based on Debian: [https://www.debian.org/misc/children-
distros](https://www.debian.org/misc/children-distros)

~~~
sauere
For the sad details, click:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10803924](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10803924)

------
cm3
Even though I've used Debian in the Linux 2.x days, I'll always associate Ian
with OpenSolaris and the opening of DTrace and ZFS first and foremost. Thanks
for all the great gifts you gave us, Ian.

~~~
sengork
Thanks to him, Solaris now has a proper packaging system with dependency
handling and repositories.

------
samstave
I too have suffered from abuse from cops here in the bay area - specifically
the city of Alameda, and one cop in particular.

I also suffer from depression, and have struggled with inappropriate thoughts
due to my experience with police.

It is sad that he has apparently actually committed suicide - as I would have
loved to join him in his fight against state abuse.

I wish I would have had the opportunity to work with / support this effort.

~~~
gist
Sorry to hear that would you be willing to describe the abuse in more detail?

~~~
samstave
Without giving too much detail in public, police were called to my house and I
had just finished putting my children to bed. The officer was talking to me
and then asked me to step on the porch, after doing so they had asked if I had
been drinking - I said yes I had wine with my dinner, why.

They then arrested me and refused to tell me why - their exact words were "you
know why" and took me to jail. I then had to bail out of jail and upon doing
so, found out they arrested me for "being drunk in public". For drinking wine,
hours prior, in my OWN HOME.

I went to court and no charges were filed and the whole thing was dismissed.

But not after I lost several thousand to bail, and I had no recourse at all.

There is a lot more to the story of this particular officer but this arrest
was exactly as stated above.

It almost cost me my job as well, had I not had the ability to bail out. All
for nothing.

If you drop all charges / do not charge someone with anything then the police
should have to not only pay all my bail feed back, but I should be able to go
after them for false arrest.

~~~
dguaraglia
Ugh. Assholes. The tactics you describe remind me of Matt Taibbi's book "The
Divide", where he recounts the experience of people in NYC being asked to
empty their pockets (which the police shouldn't do unless they had probable
cause) only to be charged with "possessing narcotics in public" when they
found they had a joint.

The existence of such a loophole, and the fact that the police knowingly uses
it with impunity, is evidence of how fucked up the system is. They are
supposed to be there to protect us, not to entrap you for whatever power game
they are playing.

~~~
eric_h
I have a friend in the NYPD. One of the tips he gave me is _never_ empty your
pockets if asked to by the police if you are carrying contraband. He said you
should just point to the pocket that contains said contraband and tell them
that it's in there.

~~~
wyclif
So the cop empties your pocket and you get arrested. Same result as far as I
can tell.

~~~
eric_h
In NYC, mere possession of less than 25g of marijuana is just a ticket (first
offense, anyway). Displaying it in public can get you actually arrested versus
just being issued a summons. While again, for a first offense, one can avoid
any real long lasting consequences, the latter situation can be _very_
expensive once you factor in lawyer fees. The former will cost you at most
about $150.

------
warp416
I love Debian, and all OSS/Linux stuff, and I'm just really really sad. I
don't know why people want to speculate on all the twitter stuff. I'm just
gonna be sad, and drink some whiskey, and make a toast to a guy who made my
life, and millions of other people's lives richer by what he gave the world.
To you, Ian. May you find peace and rest. Thank you.

~~~
mkhpalm
Well said.

------
shmerl
I'm Debian user and very grateful for all the wonderful things that Debian
enabled, thanks Ian for creating it.

It's very sad when people pass away like that. Aaron Swartz and Ilya
Zhitomirskiy also come to mind.

------
LinuxBender
Condolences to his family and loved ones. Words can never truly describe the
feeling of losing someone this way.

------
aikah
My thoughts go to his friends and family. I don't want to speculate on what
happened I don't think it is the time right now. Thanks for all your
contribution Ian Murdock.

------
coldtea
His other motivations for his act aside, the deeper societal (as opposed to
personal) issue here is police abuse.

This incident shows nicely how this kind of thing can happen to anyone -- even
a nice person (as say all who worked with/knew him), with no violent past,
having built a huge community project, a family, working in a prominent
startup, etc. White, too.

~~~
cookiecaper
We should probably reserve judgment until more information comes to light.
It's possible he was having a mental breakdown and did not have an accurate
conception of reality.

He says he was given bail, which implies he was arrested. Arrests are usually
a matter of public record. Is there any data on the record supporting this?

~~~
eric_h
this thread has some info:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10814560](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10814560)

------
andersonmvd
"they beat the shit out of me twice, then charged me $25,000 to get out of
jail for battery against THEM" @imurdock
[https://archive.is/KTesC#selection-3101.1-3101.103](https://archive.is/KTesC#selection-3101.1-3101.103)

------
rdtsc
Please let's not dig up links or make speculations about what happened.

He was the founder of the Debian project, let's remember him for that or other
contributions he's made to the tech community.

Debian has grown to be one of the most well known and popular Linux
distribution, used in production, in the cloud, as the base for SteamOS,
Ubuntu and other projects. It is and was a major part of what made Linux
popular.

~~~
kragen
On the contrary: let's dig up all the links we can so that we can find out who
was responsible, and prevent it from ever happening again. Just before he
died, Ian had said he was going to devote the rest of his life to fighting
police brutality: [http://pastebin.com/dX3VSPkM](http://pastebin.com/dX3VSPkM)

Not only would we dishonor his memory by not digging up links and making
speculations about what happened (did he commit suicide, possibly due to a
brain injury from the police beatings? Or was he killed by the police? If so,
by whom?), we are also putting ourselves in danger. What happened to Ian could
happen to any of us.

Of course we should be sensitive to his family and friends and not traumatize
them further. But that's no excuse for leaving the criminals who did this to
walk free and kill more of us.

Don't "wait for the family to release more information". Find the information
yourself, in Google Cache, on Twitter, wherever you can. It may not be there
tomorrow or the day after. And don't wait until people are no longer paying
attention. That's a losing public relations strategy. Seize the day.

~~~
scrollaway
I should probably post this on a throwaway... but this hit somewhat close to
home.

A few years ago I was going through a very tough time. I lived in the UK at
the time and went to california for a meetup. After even more personal crap
happened, I went on a walk seriously considering suicide.

Kept trying to call friends, family, nobody picked up, it was the hardest day
of my life to get through. Next thing I knew I found myself on top of a tall
building at which point I had the clarity to figure out I really should talk
to a suicide hotline.

Unfortunately I didn't know the number and internet abroad was impossible to
get at the time, so I ended up calling 911. Funny that, it turns out when you
do that in california, you are considered a "danger to yourself" and must be
arrested.

Still I figured it was the better solution and let the cops take me. I ended
up in handcuffs for the day, was roughened up quite a bit, treated like cattle
until I was sent off to a ward for 48 hours. My belongings were all taken and
I was not allowed to call anyone overseas (where the only people I knew
resided). When I pleaded for help, I was threatened to be put on indefinite
hold.

Everything I remember about this sucks. It's honestly a miracle I got through
it alive - CA tried very hard to help me kill myself. Had to fake being happy
and well and all of this being a terrible mistake to be released when the time
was up. I later got much better, higher quality help when back in Europe.

I learned one thing: Don't have mental health issues in the US. And if you do,
don't talk to the cops. Never talk to the cops.

~~~
DanBC
> I found myself on top of a tall building at which point I had the clarity to
> figure out I really should talk to a suicide hotline. Unfortunately I didn't
> know the number and internet abroad was impossible to get at the time,

I'm really sorry you had that experience. And I'm so so glad that you didn't
die that night.

I wanted to let you know that there is work currently happening (in the UK) to
prevent death by suicide from tall buildings. For example, in Gloucestershire
we're trying to get multi-story car parks to put up signs for the Samaritans
as a short term measure. Longer term we want to try to improve safety of the
building, perhaps though planning control, or through asking owners to retro-
fit fences.

Alongside that we're trying to improve health services to be more responsive
for people at risk of suicide, especially men.

(If anyone has any ideas about useful suicide prevention measures please feel
free to email me via the email in my profile).

> so I ended up calling 911. Funny that, it turns out when you do that in
> california, you are considered a "danger to yourself" and must be arrested.

This is something about mental health that people often don't understand:
sometimes it's provided by police in a police van or a police cell. They have
very little training in MH. In the UK things are slowly changing. The police
have a power under the MH act to detain people and take them to a place of
safety to be assessed by doctors. In many parts of the country that place of
safety is a police cell, but some areas have specialist Section 136 suites.
(Section 136 of the MH Act).

Thank you for having the courage to speak about your experiences. It sounds
like a difficult time was made very much worse - it sounds awful.

~~~
scrollaway
You mention the samaritans - those people are awesome and they're the ones who
helped me through the tough times when I came back home.

If anyone is looking for volunteer work in the UK, especially if you have
people skills, check them out.

You sound like you work in mental health. Can I ask you who you work for?

~~~
DanBC
I don't work, I'm an ex-service user, currently an "expert by lived
experience". I do some "service user participation work" in Gloucestershire.
This is for 2gether NHS Foundation Trust (the mental health trust for
Gloucestershire and Herefordshire), for the Gloucestershire Clinical
Commissioning Group, and for Public Health.

------
redwards510
Well, it appears his arrest was real, not a delusion. This is all the
information they had on VINE.

[https://www.vinelink.com/vinelink/detailsAction.do?siteId=50...](https://www.vinelink.com/vinelink/detailsAction.do?siteId=5000&agency=39&id=608067&searchType=offender)

Offender Name: IAN ASHLEY MURDOCK Offender ID/CDCR:608067 Date of
Birth:04/28/1973 Age: 42 Race: White Gender: Male

Custody Status: Out of Custody Date: 12/27/2015 Reason:Bonded out

~~~
SoftwarePatent
screenshot [https://imgur.com/xrz4usb](https://imgur.com/xrz4usb)

~~~
metasean
> Why can't I find the _offender_ or court case I'm searching for?

&

> Registration for notification is not currently available for this
> _offender_.

(Highlighting mine in both quotes.)

So much for innocent until proven guilty.

------
jafingi
Wow, such a tragic loss. One of the reasons why Linux is to widely popular
these days (Debian, Ubuntu, etc.).

Amazing work he did - he already did more than many people does in their
entire lifetime. Life is fragile, appreciate it :-( Rest in peace, Ian.

------
bkuhn
I wrote this Requiem for Ian Murdock
[https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2015/dec/30/requiem-ian-
murdo...](https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2015/dec/30/requiem-ian-murdock/)

------
siculars
It's not lost on me that I'm reading and writing this on an Ubuntu desktop.
Thank you, Ian. RIP.

------
dcgudeman
Found a copy of the odd tweets, sounds like he was going through something
awful. Hopefully this will bring attention to how we help people experiencing
mental health issues.

------
gizmo
What a tragic loss.

His recent twitter history shows his apparent motivation:

* [http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:le7oSCj...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:le7oSCjuRxgJ:https://twitter.com/imurdock+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=nl)

* [http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:umvcoAj...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:umvcoAjl8SIJ:https://twitter.com/imurdock/status/681598929205526528+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=nl)

------
cdk
So very sad. Debian is what got me started with Linux. I remember dd'ing base
images to floppy disks since the BIOS on the PC I was experimenting on didn't
support bootable CDs. From then doing a net install seemed so futuristic at
the time.

------
danielvf
The Debian manifesto, written by Ian can be found here.

[https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/project-history/ap-
manife...](https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/project-history/ap-
manifesto.en.html)

Not only is the manifesto a vision for a better way of doing a Linux
distribution, Ian was able to build an organization that was able accomplish
the vision.

------
tombert
I don't really want to make a comment about the reasons "why", but I do want
to say RIP Ian.

I love Debian and it's derivatives. CrunchBang was the first distro I used for
more than two days.

------
mschuster91
Eh, @dang, can we get a black bar in Ian's honor, please?

~~~
Sir_Cmpwn
What happened to the Debian post, too?

~~~
eropple
Merged threads.

------
sydney6
I didn't knew Ian, but Debian was the very first Linux Distribution i had come
across, at a time, when i didn't even knew what a Linux Distribution was. This
experience was the start of "something" that has changed my whole life since
then. Literally, not only in terms of my profession.

------
mbubb
Debian was the first thing I got to work - I tried to install other distros
before that but Debian is the one that worked. Learned about software licenses
(early days of trying ot get wifi to work).

I really wish I could do something. I feel acute distress at this news. It is
not right.

------
dmurphydrtc
RIP Ian...Like others I find this very disturbing and troubling. I hope the
truth comes out.

------
Esau
I am a little disappointed that there is nothing on the Debian home page.

------
innocentoldguy
I only met him once, but I thought Ian was a brilliant and funny man. Debian
was the Linux distribution that sang to me, and is where I've spent the better
part of the last 20 years. Thanks for all your admirable work, Ian!

------
dman
This is a great loss - he leaves behind a tremendous legacy.

------
leandrod
I hope someone writes it up. It seems very strange, and we need to stop what
seems to me a suicide wave in the last few years in the free software
community.

------
2close4comfort
This is truly a loss.

------
bussiere
Fuck , i began to use debian and everyone using tech now own him something i
think.

That's a sad thing to hear. Fuck, people like this don't have to leave to
soon.

Scheisse.

------
fredgrott
Sad to hear, my first exposure to Linux was in fact being a student at Purdue
and trying one of the early releases of Debian..Ian will be missed

------
shirro
Condolences to his friends and family. Ian and the hundreds of Debian
maintainers who followed have left an amazing legacy which I use and
appreciate every day.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suicide_crisis_lines](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suicide_crisis_lines)

------
nxnfufunezn
Very Sad to hear this. My heart goes out to his friends and family. Rest in
peace, Ian. You will be remembered forever.

------
pincubator
I was the OP who posted the first thread which was linking to his life-
threatening tweet minutes after he posted it
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10803924](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10803924)).
Unfortunately it got deleted just before reaching to frontpage because "We are
not going to have a thread to gawk at a human being saying he might kill
himself."

Well, I was thinking exactly the opposite of gawking when I posted it. I
wanted the community to pay attention, I wanted thousands of people writing
him emails/tweets, supporting his fight against the traumatic experience he
encountered with the police. So he could see that ending his life isnt the
only way to reach out to people about his cause. I feel like we actually
closed our ears to what he was trying to say by deleting that thread. What was
so wrong about discussing it here as normal human beings? People in that
thread were actually discussing his experience about police brutality. From
his Twitter logs, you can see that he was tweeting to some Twitter accounts
and was asking for help on his cause :( I just feel like it would be nice for
him to see himself on front-page of Hackernews and see that community is also
outraged by what happened to him. Instead, he was harassed by several random
people on Twitter calling him names and wanting him to broadcast his suicide
on twitch :(

I don't mean to hurt/blame anyone or any moderator. Maybe I just feel very
emotional since I met with Debian when I was 18 and it completely changed my
life. I also met with him at a couple of events and he seemed like a nice guy
in person, too. I just feel a little responsible for not being able to do
anything after reading his tweets :( I do hope that community doesn't let what
happened to him forgotten and fight for his cause.

~~~
hitekker
> Well, I was thinking exactly the opposite of gawking when I posted it.

I suppose it depends on how much faith you have in the community, particularly
in its worst elements. If there is not an outpouring of support (> 95% of the
responses are positive), then broadcasting his calls for attention probably
won't help and it may even further have hurt Ian.

I personally believe that our community would care for this person: an
established man of merit in our little community and certainly not a insecure
attention-seeker.

I agree your original thread should have not been deleted.

------
jMyles
Holy hell. We are losing so many good people.

When I saw the tweets, I thought he just had a really rough night and was
engaging in twitterbole.

What the fuck are we going to do?

~~~
LennyHenrysNuts
We're going to investigate ourselves, and figure out what happened.

We need to avoid a "We did it, Reddit!" situation, but if we proceed calmly
and without frothing mob mentality, we can make a positive impact by finding
out the truth.

------
cmdrfred
I use Debian as my daily driver. Thanks Ian.

------
qwertyuiop924
I miss him already.

------
joe563323
Thats really sad.

------
rdl
This would seem worthy of black banner on hn.

------
bitL
Rest In Peace Ian! Thanks for Debian!

For the rest of you working on free stuff for humanity - go dark now, the
times have changed, don't expose yourself in public. And start lifting!

------
anupamsr
The most surprising this I find is that there is a person who is known all
over the world and who announces to the whole world that he is going to commit
suicide and yet there is no support system in place to help him. Is there not
a single person who knew where he lived? Who could have visited him? Who could
have called him? What a shameful society you guys live in?

This is where women are smart. Random women support random women but men...
what a shame...

------
mixmastamyk
Hmm, I don't understand this story and links here. Why would a very successful
person with family commit suicide over police-brutality? No comprendo.

The appropriate response would be to get even through a court of law, or even
paying to have some legs broken if it were justified.

Perhaps he was depressed or mentally ill?

~~~
Nrsolis
There has to be something else going on when a person is confronted by the
police and they decide to arrest you.

I can only imagine that he was agitated somehow and may have been either
mentally unstable or intoxicated.

Suicide is not a normal response to being locked up by the police for a few
hours.

~~~
SwellJoe
Bullshit. Police beat the shit out of people, unprovoked, every day. They
murder 12 year old boys without hesitation (Tamir Rice). They'll kill a woman
in her jail cell because she knew her rights and tried to exercise them
(Sandra Bland). They'll chase down (stealing a car to make the chase more
exciting) and execute an innocent man because he happens to be black and
trying to go into the bank where he has an account (Larry Jackson, Jr.). I
could type all day and not finish the list of unarmed people who did nothing
wrong who are dead by the hands of cops. The number who've been beaten by
police is astronomically higher.

Ian is a well-known quantity, and what we know is that he was extraordinarily
kind and generous. I don't believe for a second that he did anything to
deserve to have a police officer beat him up. Not all police are vicious
bullies, but I'm more willing to believe Ian had the misfortune to cross paths
with a vicious bully than I am to believe he deserved being beaten up.

~~~
res0nat0r
Ignoring all the nonsense from the first paragraph above, it is most likely he
was having some major mental issues just due to the tweets linked here. The
police were called by someone worried about him, and he is taking his anger
out on them and blaming them for intervening.

There is nothing in the local papers about this so far, which is usually on
par unfortunately with suicide. Sad to see another person gone due to
unfortunate mental/emotional issues.

~~~
cthalupa
>is most likely he was having some major mental issues just due to the tweets
linked here

I don't think we're in any position whatsoever to say this.

Was he experiencing major mental issues when he wrote the tweets? Probably.
Are such mental issues feasible to occur due to abuse at the hands of police?
Sure. Is it also feasible that such mental issues could result in routine
policework seeming like abuse? Yes.

There's not enough information available to us for it to be anything but
irresponsible to speculate on whether this mental condition was the cause or
the effect of whatever it was that occurred with the police.

------
marincounty
I don't know what happened to him. I know, even as a white male, I have been
harassed by police.

I fear police officers. I don't want to be around them. I broke up with
someone, once I found out they dated a cop.

I'm not going to speculate on that Tweet. I could see how a bad run-in with
the wrong cop, could push a vunerable individual over the line. Yes, I know
there's good cops out there. (I saved you a cliche?)

~~~
dang
We detached this subthread from
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10813665](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10813665)
and marked it off-topic.

------
zem
also docker seems to have taken the post down; the link is 404ing and their
main blog posts page doesn't have anything.

~~~
dang
We detached this subthread from
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10813830](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10813830)
and marked it off-topic.

------
jimrandomh
This was _very_ recent, and the facts are not yet in. The best evidence we
have to go on is his most recent tweets, captured on Pastebin
([http://pastebin.com/dX3VSPkM](http://pastebin.com/dX3VSPkM)). His Twitter
account ([https://twitter.com/imurdock](https://twitter.com/imurdock)) seems
to have been deleted, which is extremely strange.

Main notes:

* He was repeatedly beaten by the police. He alludes to having taken photos of the injuries, and having been hospitalized, so this will be easily proven.

* His last tweet is "abcolucity i'll tweet it or twitch it or whenever the rufk can i have 30 minutes toe wtie my suittyes ?" This to me strongly suggests a head injury.

* "The rest of my life is to fight against the police.. they are NOT friends, so don't ever ever believe otherwise."

* "watch my blog later [http://ianmurdock.com"](http://ianmurdock.com") "I'm not committing suicide today. I'll write this all up first, so the police brutality ENDEMIC in this so call free country will be known." There are no posts about this on his blog.

I believe this was murder: he died from a head injury sustained at the hands
of the police. I also believe that the police will rule that it was a suicide;
but he made clear future plans which weren't executed, so this will be a lie.

(EDIT: At some point in this saga, Ian's Twitter account got hacked. The
deleted account, and the strange last tweet, were probably a result of that.)

~~~
ars
"This was very recent, and the facts are not yet in"

Exactly. And yet you write "He was repeatedly beaten by the police" ... "this
will be easily proven".

Your post is incredibly irresponsible. You know nothing at all of what
happened, all you have are the posts of someone having a mental breakdown.

And you don't just stop at what he wrote on twitter. No, you continue with
literally stuff from your own imagination:

"I believe this was murder: he died from a head injury sustained at the hands
of the police."

People's lives have been ruined many many times by other people jumping to
conclusions before knowing all the facts. I don't know if jumping to
conclusions will hurt anyone here, but you should NOT do it. Ever.

PS. This: "but he made clear future plans which weren't executed, so this will
be a lie" does not in the slightest rule out suicide. People committing
suicide almost always have future plans.

~~~
randallsquared
> Exactly. And yet you write "He was repeatedly beaten by the police" ...
> "this will be easily proven".

To "prove" also means to "test", so especially with the "facts are not yet in"
statement that you quote, it seems charitable to assume that "this will be
easily proven" was intended to mean "this will be easily shown to be true or
false".

~~~
jimrandomh
Yes, this is indeed what I meant.

(Although, the fact that something is very easy to test also makes it less
likely to be claimed falsely. I would be extremely surprised if there wasn't a
recorded hospitalization.)

------
amlgsmsn
Looks like people from 4chan were egging him on on Twitter.

[https://archive.is/2Cdj1](https://archive.is/2Cdj1)

[https://i.imgur.com/A1xlnVi.png](https://i.imgur.com/A1xlnVi.png)

Is that something illegal?

~~~
dang
We detached this subthread from
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10813830](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10813830)
and marked it off-topic.

------
SFjulie1
People's last words stated in the form "please do" are called last wishes.

His last wishes went towards asking the community to push his story to the
front page of HN.

Why does the institutions delete information in order to preserve his memory?

I have been in the free software community since 2 decades. Met a lot of
developers. We were a tinge more numerous -compared to the era and time-
freaks among freaks.

The number of schyzophrenic, LGBT, psychotics, diabetics, aspergers, autists
... outcasts of the society were high 15 years ago. Not all outcasts I will
admit. Highly educated ones. Nerds, and geeks like with the true meaning of
geeks before silicon valley in a 1984 fashion made it sound cool.

The bullied at school because of invisible differences. At least when you are
visibly different you are not alone.

Free software was our haven, a community with strong bonds. I never met him
though.

Since linux became "hype" the community has changed. Less freaks, more suits
and ties more "opening to visible diversities" but in depth less tolerance
towards the differences of the minds.

I am uneasy with the deleting of his posts *. Even though I guess I understand
the family. There are so many ways people can be misleaded by his lasts words.
Me included.

His lasts words are stinking of loneliness and oddity for me, though. Like a
bottle to the sea.

I wish to try to open gently this bottle.

Whatever he wishes to have uncovered my clueless guess is the true nature of
facing a world that is violent with a difference and a lack of empathy. Like a
psychopathic society. He may not have been a "nerd" or "geek" or bullied at
school but he seems to have died like one.

His tweets were long enough before his death. Thousands of people made the
news seeable on the internet. Their was time to act. Yet, like for any freaks
on the streets that every one sees and have empathy for, every one seemed
concerned and no one acted. Liking on fb, talk on TED, news on HN are
effectless in the real life.

What I see from the reactions to his last words is ... people are more
concerned about being "correct" above all.

I also see his social shell cracking revealing his inner self. I see people
close to him more concerned about keeping a nice image of him rather than
accepting who he was. As a human. To fail is human, to err is human, to cry is
human, to be in pain is human.

But the dark secrets is we all are freaks. And we face our fears and demons --
alone sometimes. Especially when being bullied. Society tends to blame the
victims of bullying for their own weaknesses.

As soon as you call for help when fighting your daemons in your own honest
language people walk away, by fear, of what? Contamination? Conflict?

My sympathy goes to Ian. My feeling goes to all the people asking for help
that are ignored, but for which we make nice posts, hoping someone else will
take care of it. (NIB)

I am even feeling myself both a jerk and wishing to respect his lasts words[1]
writing this.

Maybe the only thing that we have to look at is at the bottle, and not open
it.

A bottle to the sea is a signal to the world, and some are trying to hide this
bottle.

In fact, I cowardly will not open the bottle. But I see it. I have the feeling
it is important to not negate it.

"i have many stories to tell and do not want them to die with me" he said.

In my point of view not respecting someone's last world is like breaking a
geas that bound generations.

What if no one respected the last wishes of Nicolai Copernicus on publishing
is thesis?

sapere auso[2].

It is our moral contract to the one who passed away to respect their last
wishes, else what will remain of us after our own deaths?

He was a human, he was in pain, he was alone, and that how he died, unable to
tell his stories. And even as a complete stranger, I feel for him.

Maybe he was living in delusion. Maybe he was crazy. Maybe he had terrible
stories to tell about DSA-1571-1. It is impossible for me to guess the stories
he actually wishes to make the front page of HN.

I just read his words and see the pain of a human and respect them as is.

Let's respect the true memory of a man and respect his real last words, not
the façade that is given to us.

[1] yes I assume this is him writing. I cannot be sure, but sometimes you have
to trust and trust include the risk of being betrayed. Sometimes, [2] you have
to dare try to know.

------
jafingi
Why has the blog post been removed from Docker Blog?

As far as I can tell, it was the primary source for the sad news.

~~~
spb
My best guess would be a botched/inadvertent rollback of the content DB in
response to incoming traffic. (It's back up now.)

------
nailer
> I suppose it depends on how much faith you have in the community,
> particularly in its worst elements.

On that note, do you want to reconsider your post about the person who argued
with Ian (who was awfully insensitive, but really doesn't deserve an HN witch
hunt) elsewhere in this thread?

\---

Edit: replying to your post below, due to rate limit:

Your post was flagged because you're mentioning both the full name and online
handle of someone arguing with Ian about whether Ian should have spoken to the
police or remained silent and sued them, in a thread about Ian's death.

The person was arguing for Ian's best interests, but even if they weren't, you
can help the cause of online harassment by not harassing people online.

\---

Edit 2, to reply to your recent edits: posting their handle because they
argued with Ian in this thread is enough, but you posted a screenshot with the
persons first name and last name in post #10814825.

~~~
dang
We detached this subthread from
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10815582](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10815582)
and marked it off-topic.

------
hitekker
Waiting can have a downside as well.

The first thing the NRA will do after a shooting is call for a "meaningful
discourse" and for all the facts to come together.

They stonewall for a few weeks, weathering the storm of emotion, and then hold
a press conference saying that the tragedy would not happen if there were more
guns everywhere.

I personally believe there's a threshold for immediate groundswell of action,
but that threshold is nowhere near being met yet. As you said, it's largely
speculation right now.

~~~
puredemo
Posts like this seem to presume the NRA is wrong in their assessment, but I
simply can't see 140 people getting slaughtered at a French concert had a few
of them been able to fight back.

~~~
hitekker
Given my political bias, I used the NRA as my first example of stonewalling
but I should have included the right-wing perspective as well so that we don't
get too far off-topic.

------
hueving
>mugged by thugs. Or Police. Maybe there isn't a difference between the last
two.

I find it incredibly distasteful to offer this political commentary in
response to a death that has no information about the cause. Please don't ever
do this again.

~~~
jessaustin
_I find it incredibly distasteful..._

Tired and lame tone policing is tired and lame.

[edit: "nu-uh!"]

~~~
hueving
Bringing up police brutality in a thread about someone who died in no way
linked to the police is even more tired and lame.

~~~
DanBC
Ian Murdock was arrested and released only days before his death, and he
talked about police brutality in the days before his death.

In England those officers would appear before the coroner and would have to
justify their actions.

------
mrschwabe
It is concerning to see flagged (deleted posts) which have theorized certain
unlikely yet plausible scenarios. Just because an opinion or idea is
controversial, doesn't mean it is offensive or not-constructive. Speculation
is apart of free speech and should be treated as so.

------
andersonmvd
The top comment of this thread was deleted. Is it censorship or am I mistaken?

~~~
andersonmvd
Some prefer downvote this question rather than answer. Do me a favor. At least
do both.

------
alashow
G

------
rodgerd
HN should be ashamed of itself (but it won't be). This thread is awful.

~~~
Pinatubo
Agreed. I had no idea HN had this many teenage conspiracy theorists.

------
ilaksh
The next release of Debian should have a police brutality protest day built in
that just shows a message about Ian's final tweets and ways to help the
situation with the police, and won't do anything else all day.

