
LG launches open-source version of webOS - spacemanspiffy
https://sdtimes.com/os/lg-launches-open-source-version-webos/
======
mindcrash
Actually this is the second time webOS is open sourced.

First time was by HP after the acquisition and Palm more or less went _poof_ ,
just about 4 years ago.

In fact, the original repositories are still available on GitHub:

[https://github.com/openwebos](https://github.com/openwebos)

~~~
niutech
According to [https://pivotce.com/2018/03/19/open-source-webos-now-
brought...](https://pivotce.com/2018/03/19/open-source-webos-now-brought-to-
you-by-lg/) "they open sourced…well…bits and pieces of it back in 2012." So it
wasn't a full release.

------
aidenn0
When I had to go from my Palm Pre to an android phone it was a giant leap
backwards in functionality and usability. They got so many things right from
the get-go with WebOS, but it would have had to have been perfect to break
into the already existent duopoly.

The ship has long since sailed and android now is almost certainly better than
WebOS ever was, but this does make me nostalgic.

~~~
sjs382
Even beyond smartphones (I never used WebOS on a smartphone), it was amazing
on the HP TouchPad. I acquired one after the fire sale and used it _waaay_
past it's EOL. Sad that it just stopped booting one day. :-/

~~~
garmaine
I've got 3 of them in various states of working I'd happily ship to an
enthusiast who'd value them. I've long since switched to the iPad Pro, but I'm
too nostalgic to throw them away / recycle. What a wonderful device it was,
just poorly price (before the fire sale).

~~~
wastedhours
Same - I have one from the firesale laying around, but can't bring myself to
get rid of it. Was a really nice device, and the OS was a dream.

~~~
garmaine
My kids loved it as I had it loaded up with their favorite Disney movies, and
they had figured out how to operate the camera. The interface was simple and
intuitive enough for a toddler to use. They still call the new iPad a
"TouchPad".

I continued using it as a glorified e-reader until the Apple Pencil--taking
notes and markup PDFs is what finally made me switch. I wouldn't go back as
iOS has finally surpassed what Palm/HP had half a decade ago, but it still
holds a place in my heart. Kinda like the Amiga, Commodore 64, and BeOS.

------
SlowBro
Embarrassing admission: I still carry a Treo 700p running Palm OS 5.4.9. Not
as a phone, I have my work phone for that. It's for carrying personal info.
The OS fits me hand-in-glove so I love it.

I tried converting to Android but every app I tried (and I tried dozens!)
either had some critical missing feature or cost too much. And the work phone
is locked down, so I can't put any personal info on it.

So I have a bump in the left pocket and the work phone on the right hip. A
Google Voice number as my personal "cell" which gets forwarded to the work
phone.

I imagine I'll die with a Treo in my pocket. They're reliable, but if one
breaks they're $15 on eBay in almost new condition. Since one can still find
the original Palms also on eBay, I expect to be able to find replacements for
one of the last Palms made for a lonnnnng time.

~~~
martinald
Your bigger problem is going to be EVDO networks shutting down...

~~~
SlowBro
I don’t use it as a phone. It’s just a classic PDA. Got the work phone and
Google Voice for calls/Internet/email.

------
Sophistifunk
The only way this becomes interesting is if you can deploy it to your TV. Then
you could comment out all the "features" and dumb your TV down to where it's
not spying on you and showing you ads.

~~~
bhaak
In what application does a LG TV show you ads?

I get the spying part, as long as we talk about the standard "needs a internet
connection to do whatever a Smart TV does these days".

Or is there more to it?

~~~
cbo100
> In what application does a LG TV show you ads?

The home screen/main menu shows ads on the left hand side all the time.

In my case, in Australia, it's often "BigPond Movies" which I'm not a
subscriber to.

See for example this screenshot from a review...

[https://www.idgcdn.com.au/dimg/1200x1200/dimg/img_20170518_1...](https://www.idgcdn.com.au/dimg/1200x1200/dimg/img_20170518_141717.jpg)

~~~
bhaak
Interesting. No, I don't have that.

Maybe a country specific thing or even outright prohibited in Europe.

~~~
Vilkku
Probably just country specific, we have the ads here in Finland as well.

------
rhencke
For those looking for the source: [https://github.com/webosose/build-
webos.git](https://github.com/webosose/build-webos.git) will get you started.

~~~
bokchoi
And also

[http://webosose.org/](http://webosose.org/)

------
seorphates
This a solid five years behind schedule but I'll take it.

I believe any solid grab for a more open handset os starts here.

~~~
walterbell
This is built on OpenEmbedded, which goes back to OpenZaurus,
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenZaurus](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenZaurus)

 _" In its original form, the project was a repackaging of the SharpROM, the
Zaurus's factory supplied kernel and root filesystem image. In order to make
the Zaurus's OS closer to the needs of the developer community, the SharpROM
was altered through the use of bugfixes, software additions, and even removals
in order to make the package more open.

The OpenZaurus project was revamped completely, becoming Debian-based built
from source, from the ground up. Due to the change in direction, OpenZaurus
became quite similar to other embedded Debian-based distributions, such as
Familiar for the iPAQ. OpenZaurus, in its current form, facilitates an easy
method for users to build their own custom images. The efforts of Openzaurus,
along with other embedded Linux projects, were integrated into the
OpenEmbedded Project, which now provides the common framework for these
projects._"

------
vanadium
I was among the first batch or two of webOS app developers in 2009 (into
webOS' smartphone death in '12) and wow, this makes me nostalgic all over
again. I'm going to need to have a look at this when I have some time.

Good to see LG keeping it even tangentially relevant.

------
antirez
LG TVs thanks to WebOS are the only TVs with a software experience that makes
sense. Cool to see this news happening.

~~~
mmanfrin
I disagree, I feel LG has done a horrendous job on the software side --
always-on recording (illegally), ads that you cannot remove on their $5k
flagship tvs, delays/loading times for plain menus.

~~~
themihai
where exactly are the ads? I have one and I've never seen an "LG ad". There
are apps with adds(i.e. youtube) but it has nothing to do with LG.

~~~
fyfy18
I bought a 55C7V last year which shows ads. When you open the menu there are
ads on the left side (usually for streaming services), and again in the app
store at the top of the screen.

~~~
themihai
My LG is older(first OLED generation) so I guess that's why it doesn't have
this new "feature". Ads in AppStore make sense but displaying them in the menu
is outrageous.

------
ocdtrekkie
Easily my favorite smart TV UI I've ever been burdened with, for what it's
worth. I doubt we'll see a smartphone push with it... but hey, a guy can hope
for a new open source OS option.

~~~
wlesieutre
Is there a premium TV brand where I can pay $100 extra to _not_ be burdened
with smart TV features?

I just want an on/off button, a good panel, and a single HDMI input. The TV
displays what comes in from the HDMI input.

From the searching I've done, apparently this is too much to ask for.

~~~
ocdtrekkie
I've actually never had a hard time finding dumb TVs. (I have three 2015 model
Samsung dumb TVs on my desk, the smart TV variant cost about $20 more per
unit.)

Where it becomes unavoidable is if you want certain features. Like my LG is
the last generation of 3D TV, and one of the only TVs with Passive 3D on a 4K
panel. I found that all 3D TVs were smart TVs, but if you're just looking for
a panel, numerous brands will sell you a panel.

Also, note that smart TVs are only "smart" if you connect them to Wi-Fi. It's
not like they have cellular radios. Don't give them Ethernet or Wi-Fi, and
they'll do pretty much just what you want them to.

~~~
wlesieutre
I've seen smart TV's with annoyingly long startup times, more similar to a low
end cell phone than a television, but I haven't investigated enough to know if
that's a consistent issue across manufacturers.

~~~
wlesieutre
Re: features, I'm planning to get 4K HDR for my next TV, which appear to be
all smart. But all the smarts I need are already happening in my receiver and
various devices connected through it, so anything other than displaying a
single video input is unneeded (and unwanted).

------
tomne
The whole build-system talks about using a Raspberry Pi, but what of existing
webOS products?

I'd love to be able to have picture modes that would remove all image
processing to reduce input lag, and get the image as intended, especially when
I'm using the TV's native resolution.

Perhaps around here:
[https://github.com/webosose/avoutputd/blob/master/src/video/...](https://github.com/webosose/avoutputd/blob/master/src/video/videoservice.cpp#L765)

~~~
donpdonp
I dug through some files in the build-webos repo and it appears that the
raspberryPi is the only build target. I am looking for a pre-made qemu image
so I can at least try out/look at webOS OSE. The README says the build needs
100GB of free disk :O

------
_bxg1
I have WebOS on my TV and it's the first "smart TV" software I've ever used
that doesn't deeply offend me on a UX, UI, and implementation level. It's
competent, pretty, intuitive, and unobtrusive. That said, I'm not sure what
else it will be useful for.

~~~
BoorishBears
In a more fair world, the Palm Pre would have taken Android's throne.

~~~
bitmapbrother
No fair world could have prevented the incompetent management that sealed the
fate of WebOS.

------
kev009
I really liked the HP tablet with WebOS, got it for $99 when they blew them
out and it was useful for a couple years and then the web browser became too
obsolete.

It would be interesting if some kind of political rift propelled WebOS back
into phones.

~~~
acct1771
Like, Google having too much power over manufacturers? Like LG?

~~~
kev009
Yeah imagine some mfgs saying enough is enough and Samsung and LG teaming up
on a transition to WebOS across budget and flagship phones. They'd have enough
power to gain meaningful presence in some countries. I think you'd probably
need an Android sandbox to bootstrap any worldwide competitor.

------
diggan
I don't have a lot experience with TV hacking, but would this be possible to
build and run on my LG TV I have today or is this for legacy devices stuck
with some special version of webOS? I think my TV currently runs webOS 3.0.

~~~
Jonnax
The update binaries likely use signing to prevent modification

~~~
diggan
Thanks for the reply. So basically the TV has to be jailbroken (kind of)
before being able to flash it?

------
hugh4life
With web assembly there really is a big opportunity for a browser based mobile
OS like webOS or Firefox OS to potentially take off.

~~~
untog
Not really. Firefox OS failed for market reasons (impossible to break through)
and performance reasons, but those were DOM related, not JS related

~~~
hugh4life
JS performance leaves a lot to be desired and there are a mass of developers
who won't bother if there is no escape hatch to get that performance when it's
needed.

~~~
nallerooth
A lot of people get confused about JavaScript and DOM performance. Now, of
course it's possible to write terribly slow apps in JavaScript, but the same
is true for C.

When used properly, JavaScript can actually be quite speedy (but don't use it
for huge calculations).

------
hapnin
This is great to hear. I had an HP Touchpad and loved it.

------
j45
Good to hear - the HTML & JS approach as the entire mobile OS was a good 3-5
years ahead of it's time.

~~~
frou_dh
Then it subsequently had its time with Firefox-OS?

~~~
freehunter
Maybe, but not in the way WebOS did it. Palm Pre devices weren't top of the
line but they had enough power to run HTML and JS apps. FirefoxOS seemed to
focus on devices that really didn't have enough power, with hardware designed
to hit a price rather than any performance metrics.

There may not be a market for a straight-up Linux system with first-class HTML
and JS apps anymore, but judging it based on FirefoxOS isn't really fair.

~~~
xenadu02
You must be remembering a different webOS than I am. I remember 20-40 second
app launch times.

People love their rose-colored glasses.

------
vondur
I always thought webOS was really nice and ahead of its time. I assume making
phones using this would be difficult without having good driver support from
the hardware vendors?

~~~
Yoric
Speaking as someone who has (a bit) worked with Firefox OS, the answer is very
much yes. Also, that's only the start of your worries.

~~~
tostitos1979
Curious what you think the problems are. Drivers are a huge one IMHO (as the
parent poster mentioned). From a tech perspective, perhaps the biggest one.
The only other tech major tech challenge I see is getting app developer
support (basically, what killed Windows Mobile).

~~~
acct1771
Baseband is one, if the other commenter doesn't get back to you.

------
egfx
"As we move from an app-based environment to a web-based one, we believe the
true potential of webOS has yet to be seen." \-
[http://www.lgnewsroom.com/2018/03/webos-enters-next-phase-
as...](http://www.lgnewsroom.com/2018/03/webos-enters-next-phase-as-global-
platform-under-lgs-stewardship/)

But I said this in 2015.. "The web will eat up everything, watch." \-
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9458505](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9458505)

Enyo was/is truly a pioneer in the field of web technology. It still is and I
believe it's magic is just being under utilized at the moment.

Though, haven't used my LG devices in years :(

I worked at Office Depot and got my hands on a few of the early Palm devices,
Pilot, Tungsten3T and then then the European only Pre3. The integration with
the Touchpad was underwhelming though and a real disappointment.

~~~
pjmlp
Nokia was the first one to try with their web runtime for Symbian, I am still
awaiting for web apps to match in performance my daily Android, UWP and iOS
apps.

I would already be happy if webgl demos that keep being regularly posted here
would run as smooth as my OpenGL ES native ones.

------
thinkloop
> As we move from an app-based environment to a web-based one

This is very exciting. I was saddened when Firefox quit its web OS initiative.
Similarly when they removed the ability to create application shortcuts -
chrome also seems to be de-emphasizing them.

I'm a believer in the web becoming the future of apps, and by extension the
operating system. Apps are in a sense today's Flash - closed, proprietary,
custom, prettier, faster. As the web catches up - it's getting there - its
free, open standards and develop-once-guaranteed-to-deploy-anywhere
characteristics will win out.

I'd say this reasoning was the main catalyst for Apple killing Flash, and why
they only allow their own rendering engine on iOS (chrome on iOS, for example,
uses the same internals as Safari).

~~~
yoz-y
The main difference though is that flash was the resource hog in the old world
and now it is the web. Until we have way more energy efficient CPUs this will
remain a problem. I have since given up on HTML rendering getting more
optimized.

------
vadimberman
Concerning another dead mobile OS, I never understood why Microsoft did not
try to spin off or open-source their mobile effort.

In fact, the rationale for killing it seems an example of corporate waste: it
had user base in double-digits in mid-size markets like the UK and a growing
base in major non-North America markets. Why not let it grow outside of
America?

It was also an OS ahead of its time, at least in terms of the UI. Where else
can I pin a huge preconfigured icon to the main screen to quickly activate it
when I'm in a rush? Where else I don't have to scroll through the endless list
of tiny icons to find what I want?

~~~
bri3d
Much the same as iOS exists as a fork of OSX and shares the kernel and a lot
of userland frameworks, Windows Phone 8 and 10 were just forks of Windows and
shared the kernel and even more of the userland. It's unlikely Microsoft would
want to open-source that.

~~~
vadimberman
That sounds plausible but they do collaborate with the .NET open-sourcing
efforts, that could be an opportunity for them to test new waters.

------
andrewstuart
Where would this be used in 2018?

I'm curious to understand the corporate motivation here... do they see
specific use cases that the market is demanding that open source WebOS can
meet?

~~~
pjmlp
Yet another horse on the IoT OS race.

[http://www.lgnewsroom.com/2018/03/webos-enters-next-phase-
as...](http://www.lgnewsroom.com/2018/03/webos-enters-next-phase-as-global-
platform-under-lgs-stewardship/)

------
cocacola1
webOS on their TVs isn't to bad. I just wish more companies developed apps for
it. Roku is fantastic, but it'd be a bit cleaner if everything was just
integrated into webOS.

That said, I do have a nagging feeling that the interface could be improved if
it looked a bit more like Roku's. Some people complain that Roku's is archaic,
but it's perhaps the most navigable I've come across.

------
EmojilessPsyko
I hope that means someone could implement 120hz 1080p over HDMI on 2016
models. I have a B6 and that is the most missing feature which 2017 models
have. It should be doable since the TV can interpolate to 120hz internally.
2017 models support 120hz 1080p having practically the same panel afaik.

~~~
bni
Yes but sadly there will never be a way to actually install binaries built
form this source code onto actual LG TV products.

------
crudbug
LG should buy back Palm trademark from TCL and make it a premium brand in its
mobile portfolio.

------
ramboldio
Nokia and webOS Team should team up: Indestructible Hardware meets
indestructible software.

~~~
Nux
Nokia no longer build their own phones, it's Foxxcon nowadays.

------
darkhorn
I hope they fix that bug where when I press up at 18th channel it goes to 23
and then if I press down it goes to 22.

And if I eant to go to 5 from 6 by pressing down I need to wait 15 seconds. If
I don't wait it skips 1-5 range and lands on channel 1300 something.

------
pjmlp
This just sounds as a way to try to make anyone besides LG to actually bother
to try to target webOS, or yet another attempt to gain a foothold on the new
IoT OSes fight for market share.

------
ThatHNGuy
i hope one can install open webOS on old LG TVs (2014/2015)

------
kreutz
5 years too late

~~~
ZenoArrow
webOS was first open sourced 6 years ago.

[https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=LG-
webOS...](https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=LG-webOS-Open-
Source-Edition)

~~~
kreutz
It doesn't matter - webOS died the day Palm was sold to HP.

~~~
mhneu
Sad but true

