
Testosterone is the drug of the future - mparramon
http://fusion.net/story/42619/why-testosterone-is-the-drug-of-the-future/
======
davak
MD here. Just remember that women live longer than men. Although it'll never
be proven that hormones are part of that provess, I think it's a good
assumption.

Many males as they get older become more lovable and more pleasent to be
around because of natural hormone declines.

There are a ton of health issues such as balding, coronary artery disease,
prostate cancer, obstructive sleep apnea that are related to testosterone.
Whether these clinics can find the correct cocktail to find a healthy balance
isn't clear.

I'm neither pro nor con. I've seen people who have been positively and
negatively impacted by steroid supplementation.

~~~
gadders
>>Many males as they get older become more lovable and more pleasent to be
around because of natural hormone declines.

I resent that. I don't have low testosterone but I'd still say I was a loving
father and husband and a generally good person. Being "manly" doesn't mean
being a dick, quite the opposite.

~~~
slantyyz
I think you're overthinking what he's saying.

He's simply talking about the side effect of reduced testosterone -- I think
he's just trying to say men simply mellow out more when he says "more
lovable".

I can speak to this with first hand experience. I had testicular cancer for a
_second_ time in my 30s and while I was waiting several weeks for a chance to
see an endocrinologist about replacing the testosterone my body could no
longer produce, I noticed a big change in how I saw things.

Traffic, which in my city is a big stressor, no longer bothered me. People
would cut me off, and I'd be like "oh well" and move on. Totally unbothered. A
lot of "irritants" were no longer nearly as irritating. Now that I'm on
testosterone replacement therapy, not so much the case any more. Not saying
that I'm more irritable, it's just that I'm not nearly as mellow as I was in
those weeks my testosterone levels dipped very low.

~~~
vldx
I've read somewhere that Testosterone could be described as simple as - Fuck
or Kill :)

------
freshfey
As someone who went from 430 ng/dl to 1024 ng/dl naturally in about two years
time (from age 23 to 25) the only thing I can say is don't jump to too many
conclusions here.

\- Your testosterone should be naturally high if you're below 30 (and male)

\- If not, something is wrong and you need to fix it (start with blood work,
check your diet, move)

\- If you testosterone is in the normal ranges (blood work recommends between
600 and 1200, which is ridiculous), you'll feel good 80-90% of the time

\- the 10-20% are probably psychological worries that you might have, start
meditating

\- I didn't get huge muscles or less body fat with more testosterone (huge
myth that I thought would change for me)

\- TRT is used heavily in pro-sports (look for UFC fighters and bodybuilders,
they have the most experience, since a lot of them are doing it)

\- TRT is a problem if you keep going for too long, because your body just
doesn't produce testosterone as it used to, because it expects it from the
outside, so below 35 or rather below 40 year olds: don't sign up for this too
quickly.

\- Cold showers/baths do work, but probably not for increasing your
testosterone, still, do it from time to time :)

\- Intermittent Fasting helps immensely with boosting your testosterone
naturally.

I can provide more info or details/specifics if wanted/needed.

~~~
Simp
_" start meditating"_

Research has not shown that meditation beats a placebo

Studies about meditation are usually of poor quality.

Source: [http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-
check/2013/03/08/r...](http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-
check/2013/03/08/research-has-not-shown-that-meditation-beats-a-placebo/)

~~~
callum85
How could there be a placebo for meditation? A placebo has to replicate the
experience of going through the 'real' treatment being trialled. How could you
create the _experience_ of meditation without the subject actually meditating?
The claim being tested is simply that the experience of meditation is
beneficial, so I don't know what form a placebo could take.

It would be OK to do a trial where one group is instructed to meditate and the
other is not given any instructions, and you check back with each group in a
couple of weeks and ask them how they feel. If there's a difference in the
meditation group, that proves there is value in meditating. Placebo doesn't
come into it, because no one is claiming there is any benefit to meditation
that _doesn 't_ come from simply experiencing it.

For comparison, I once heard of a way of testing acupuncture against a placebo
– someone invented needles that look and feel the same but don't actually
penetrate the skin. So they could compare the reported benefits of 'fake
acupuncture' with real acupuncture, and see if there's any health benefit to
the physical intervention, or if it's all just theatre. And if it is all just
theatre, that's OK – it doesn't negate the health benefits of acupuncture, it
just helps us understand that it's all about the experience of having someone
slowly and dramatically stick pins in you, which is interesting. It's not the
same as saying that acupuncture doesn't work.

~~~
return0
i think you 're supposed to compare the _claimed effects_ on people who
meditate vs people who don't (control group)

~~~
vidarh
A control group that does not do anything and does not receive anything is not
using a placebo.

A placebo is very specifically a substitute for whatever you want to measure
the effect of.

You can have both a control group and a group using a placebo and get
substantially different results for them, and that's exactly why placebos are
used: People report substantial effects from sugar pills and the like when
they believe there should be an effect.

~~~
return0
well yeah , you would then have to have a "sugar pill" group. I wonder whether
these studies include an third" no intervention" group.

------
johnward
I'm 28 now and I have hypogonadisn and have experience using T and other
options like clomid. My total T was <120nd/dl. The lab range for this is
usually 300-1000ng/dl. I was severely depressed. Moody and very angry. I
experience "roid rage" in the opposite of what most people think. When my T is
low I am a completely different, awful person. I literally thought I was going
to kill myself.

I finally went to the doc. Got the blood work and was put ona low dosage of
Testosterone. Enough to get me to the 500ng/dl range. My quality of life
improved dramatically and I was the happy and productive person I used to be.
I felt like I did in my early 20s instead of like I was approaching 50. Now I
have to take clomiphene because the T kills my fertility. Clomid gets my
hormones to the 500ng/dl range but I do not feel the same. My brain is
"foggy". I'm not as sharp as I was. I'm up and down with my mood. On a higher
dosage of clomid I even had experience where my brain just didn't make sane
decisions. I rammed a car one time in traffic. I ran over my mailbox backing
out of my garage, even though I did this thousands of times before.

Testosterone can be a miracle for some people. It saddens me that it get such
a bad rep for being used/abused by athletes.

~~~
eyeJam
If anyone's ever watched the documentary "Bigger, Stronger, Faster*" they
raise some interesting points questioning why steroids are demonized.
Professional musicians take beta-blockers, athletes get laser eye surgery and
take cortisone and opiate shots before/during competition, programmers take
Adderall and Modafinil, male porn stars shot their penises full of drugs to
stay erect for hours on end, etc. etc. Plenty of examples of professionals
"cheating" without widespread media outcry and pearl-clutching about the
sanctity of the profession.

Furthermore, taking steroids won't improve your muscle-memory, proprioception,
agility, sports IQ, etc... In my opinion they should be allowed in sports in
some limited cases, such as recovering from an injury, where it would be
administered in a controlled environment by a licensed doctor to accelerate
recovery. They're a very useful drug if used properly.

~~~
seestheday
Unfortunately the problem is that they work too well. Every time they are
legalized in a limited capacity they are abused in professional sports.

The effect is massively amplified if you give women drugs because they don't
have testosterone levels like men do. Those records that were set in the 70's
pre-testing will likely never be broken.

The issue is that if it is legal, there is a huge incentive to take it to an
abusive point especially in a celebrity economy like what exists is
professional sports.

In some sports, professional athletes are almost constantly injured. Off the
top of my head I can give you MMA (UFC) and american football as examples but
I'm sure there are many others.

Healthy sports end where competitive sport begins.[1]

Right now we have an arms race that barely keeps it at bay. It's not an ideal
solution but I think its better than athletes fully abusing their bodies with
massive amounts of drugs like they did back in the East German Olympic days.

For non-professional athletes, I agree with you. It should not be demonized to
the extent it is.

1\. Quote from Brecht, referenced many times, e.g here
[http://gladwell.com/drugstore-athlete/](http://gladwell.com/drugstore-
athlete/)

~~~
johnward
The issue that athletes abuse the drugs seems like a problem the athletic
association/league/body should prevent instead of classifying anabolic
steroids as schedule III drug.

~~~
seestheday
Agreed.

------
stevepotter
I went through a major testosterone-related health scare when I was 31 (4
years ago). I was in the midst of launching a startup. Stressed out,
financially strained, hardly sleeping, hardly exercising, drinking too much. I
thought I was eating right but turns out I wasn't. I began feeling like an
empty shell of my former self. And yes, it totally affected my sex drive. Went
to doc and had blood work done. My test levels were about 200, which would be
acceptable had I been 70 years old. I was terrified.

After ruling things out, the doc prescribed me Androgel, a gel-based test
delivery system. You rub it on your shoulders and it absorbs in. But you have
to be careful to not let it get on other people. I had a baby girl on the way
and sat there thinking that I never want to worry about touching my wife or
daughter. Plus this wasn't a temporary treatment. You are a slave to it, and
pay about $10/day for it. Oh, and it turns out people, especially younger men,
have a higher chance of stroke on that stuff. That's no life, so I decided to
try and cure it naturally.

And I did. My testosterone is normal now (forget the exact number). And I feel
great. It was simple. First, I started strength training. Weights, especially
compound moves like squats, will build test levels. And helps with sleep.
Check out stronglifts.com if you want a good starting point.

Second I fixed my diet. Check out the book The Perfect Health Diet. I learned
I was not eating enough good fat. I started using more olive oil, coconut,
ghee (butter), and quality rumen meat. It made a huge difference.

Finally I cut out the stress. The startup ended up not succeeding but that had
nothing to do with me deciding to ease up. I'm happy I did and learned a
valuable lesson that health comes first.

So there's my story. If you are going to supplement, be prepared for a long
bumpy ride. And remember you can boost it naturally.

~~~
johnward
Studies have shown that creams are pretty terrible. Especially if you happen
to have thyroid problems. They seem to work at first and then fade out for a
lot of people. Shots just simply work and are cheaper.

~~~
slantyyz
I'm on TRT for life as a result of having testicular cancer twice.

There are pros and cons to the various types of testosterone you could take.
I'm using Androgel.

From what I remember when researching my options in 2007 (things have possibly
changed a lot since then):

Monthly shots -- the thing with shots is that your levels go up right after
you get your shot and slowly taper off. It's possible that your moods are a
little off at the beginning and then you mellow out again by the time you need
your next shot. Your options are to have a doctor do it for you or self-
administer. Having developed an aversion to needles after my first bout of
cancer, I kinda ruled this out quickly, even though it probably is cheap and
effective.

Pills - easy but apparently not very good for your liver long term

Gel/Cream -- you have to worry about keeping your hands clean and physical
contact, but it maintains your levels consistently since you're putting it on
daily. It's admittedly inconvenient but works for me.

~~~
johnward
I took weekly shots at 100mg. Cypionate is usually prescribed in the US.
Enthate everywhere else. Monthly is way too long. Most doctors recommend every
two weeks. However, there was a new report
([http://rd.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-642-72185-4_11](http://rd.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-642-72185-4_11))
that shows the half life ([http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/articles/article-
steroid-half-li...](http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/articles/article-steroid-half-
life.aspx)) of which they thought was closer to 12 days is actually something
like 8. So at the end of the second week you're likely to start feel physical
effects again (I know I do). Let me see if I can find it.

Orals shouldn't be considered.

~~~
seestheday
What about pellets/implants? Aren't they supposed to release more consistently
over a longer period?

Please excuse my ignorance on this, I am in Canada, have been blessed with
naturally high T levels, and have no experience with anti-aging clinics, but
I'm fascinated by the subject.

~~~
johnward
I don't know much about pellets other than I have read forum postings about
people not liking them and I prefer injections.

------
hellodevnull
>I was just at the gym watching the 30-year-olds at the pull-up bar building
muscles in three weeks. And I’m at the pull up bar and nothing’s happening

While many of you are thinking that he's making excuses (he might be) or that
the other guys worked long and hard to build muscle, I can relate: I've been
lifting weights three times a week for the last four years. I still look
average, and yes I'm eating and exercising properly.

I believe it might be something to do with testosterone. I was always skinny,
high body fat and frail. I worked super hard to even start exercising,
eventually I was able to get into routine but still now I feel like I should
look much better after all this time.

What's the deal with testosterone in UK? I'm 27, is it likely that I can get
it? Are there home test kits I can get (reliable ones)? Do testosterone
boosters actually work (I can't verify without testing)?

~~~
benihana
> _I 've been lifting weights three times a week for the last four years. I
> still look average, and yes I'm eating and exercising properly._

People _always_ says this. They always eat well and recover properly, but they
just can't make any gains. Everyone else can, but they can't and instead of
looking at the simplest explanation, they do hurdles to convince themselves
they have low test and that's why they're not perfect. Have you been going to
a trainer? A nutritionist? Might want to check out other alternatives before
taking synthetic hormones. And get off /fit/. This seems like the kind of
genius idea that someone on /fit/ came up with.

~~~
hellodevnull
I just made a post saying I didn't jump to conclusions, it was only after
years of training that I even considered the possibility that something was
wrong with me. Never browsed /fit/ not sure what you're trying to say... I
won't try to convince you -- I'm sure there are many that like to make excuses
so you think I fall under that category too.

------
jesstify
Transwoman here, and I have some personal experience in this regard. I've been
on T blockers for about 2 years, and I have seen significant mood, hair, and
skin improvements, not to mention a lower resting heart rate. My chances of
getting prostate cancer have been reduced to basically nil, which is pretty
great. A significant portion of the benefits are from the estrogen, but just
reducing bioavailable T does make a big difference in skin, mood, and hair. On
the flipside, a close friend who is a transman (meaning he is on T), and when
he went on it, he became very aggressive and prone to angry outburts,
developed significant acne, and a very significant increase in body hair.
So... ya know, just be careful so you don't end up having crazy moodswings and
back-ne

~~~
loucal
I'm sure whoever is prescribing you estrogen has told you that synthetic
estrogen is incredibly hard on the liver. The reduced risk of you getting
prostate cancer is as far as I understand it FAR outweighed by the likelihood
that at some point you will have liver issues to deal with. Also, I am on TRT
and this is somewhat anecdotal (although many 'bodybuilder' types that use
testosterone support this) I have noticed the effects on skin mood and hair
are stongly related to estrogen, prolactin, and progesterone levels (meaning
they should be in the normal range for male or female depending on what your
goal is wrt testosterone). I also agree with the commenter somewhere on here
that mentioned he feels the 'roid-rage' when he is low. Also anecdotal but
generally agreed upon by the community is that the mood swings come from
actual 'swings' of testosterone (and bad moods are when you are low, they
should call it roid-affection instead). FDA approved esthers in the US (for
injection) do not allow precise daily control to mimic the natural cycle, so
there can be some very minor mood changes throughout the week (my dr is open
minded and lets me pin the cypionate twice weekly) but I would honestly
suggest that your friend had some placebo effect goin on there. As for his
'back-ne', I would check my prolactin levels if I had bad acne on my back
(sometimes I do get it, and the levels are always slightly elevated... what to
do about it is another story).

Anyway, all due respect of course and I have much admiration of anyone who
goes through such great lengths to 'be themselves' but please do make sure you
are educated on the risks and minimizing them (I remember hearing it mentioned
that the patches of estrogen are much easier on the liver than injections but
that was from a tv show I think so take it with a grain of salt) I do believe
that you are correct in saying >A significant portion of the benefits are from
the estrogen, I just don't think you realize how much. As someone who lost a
fair portion of my natural production almost instantly I can say with
confidence that even if one were considering to transition to the fairer sex,
losing your test without boosting the estrogen has pretty much NO positives
except perhaps the reduced prostate cancer risk.

------
toadi
Read about it 15 years ago in a Belgian magazine. A Belgian doctor was
claiming the same.

To be quite honest I use it already for 15 years and indeed it changes you. It
helps me to be in "sana in corpore sano". Let's hope the negative health
impacts on long term are not to bet so my body stays sano :)

~~~
paulojreis
Would you be kind enough to share your experience?

I ask you this as a 29 yrs old who's mortified of aging and feels guilty as
hell for having a "all-day-sitting" job.

~~~
stinos
_mortified of aging_

Isn't that rather a psychological issue? After all, aging is still quite
unavoidable. Would postponing the unavoidable end really make you less
mortified?

 _feels guilty_

Sort of the same remark as above. Moreover, it is (afaik) not proven taking
any kind of drug will counter or reverse the damage done by sitting all day -
so taking drugs anyway would just act as a placebo: it doesn't really help
with the actual problem, but you wouldn't feel guilty because you would
_think_ it does help. Which is maybe worse than your current situation as you
would be less tempted to find a more suitable solution. Which is hard to
figure out without knowing your particular situation, but would typically
include things such as less continuous sitting, more breaks, more moving
around.

~~~
brianwski
> aging is still quite unavoidable. Would postponing > the unavoidable end
> really make you less mortified?

Yes, I want to postpone the unavoidable. Death is unavoidable, I'm trying to
postpone it. I will probably be in a wheel chair like my father eventually,
yes I want to postpone that as long as possible so I can walk around in nature
and enjoy it. If my hearing starts to fail, I will get hearing aids to try to
postpone deafness as long as possible. (My elderly mother wears hearing aids.)
I don't care if deafness is inevitable, I will fight for every extra day of
hearing birds chirping and the hearing the ocean waves.

What am I missing? Isn't everybody just like me? _SOME_ parts of aging are Ok,
but most of them are super bad - when your bones get thin due to Osteoporosis
if you fall you might break a bone, which in turn might end your life. Nobody
wants to get Osteoporosis sooner, we are all trying to postpone it as long as
possible, right?

~~~
stinos
I'm not saying one can not or should not postpone the unavoidable, but rather
questioning whether postponing it would make one less scared of it.

------
ajarmst
This article seems pretty imbalanced. Modifying your natural endocrine levels
(and the decline of testosterone with age in men is natural) can have
significant unanticipated long-term effects (witness the problem with estrogen
replacement therapy in women).

A quick Google Scholar search pops up paper with titles like "Serum
testosterone is associated with aggressive prostate cancer in older men",
"Increased heart attacks in men using testosterone: the UK importantly lags
far behind the US in prescribing testosterone", "High Estrogen in Men After
Injectable Testosterone Therapy" and "A review on the relationship between
testosterone and life-course persistent antisocial behavior". There is clearly
medical literature that contradicts the rosy view indicated by the article's
sources.

I would have liked to see the article discuss those issues and the associated
studies.

------
yummyfajitas
Can anyone link to a gwern-style review of it?

Unfortunately a google search for the same just yields a bunch of T-Nation
style spam aimed at wannabe bodybuilders.

~~~
aydinhan
Gwern wrote a section about Testosterone in Nootropics article:
[http://www.gwern.net/Nootropics#testosterone](http://www.gwern.net/Nootropics#testosterone)

~~~
yummyfajitas
I like the experiment it proposes, although I wish someone else tried it
first.

------
codingdave
Maybe I am overly cynical, but...

There are a lot of reasons that people may be tired and not in optimal health
as they age, testosterone being just one. So when testosterone comes around,
and is being pimped by high-cost cash-only doctors, it looks to me as much of
a way for a doctor who hates the current medical industry to escape it, and
build a high income private practice, as much as a truly holistic approach to
improving their patient's lives.

I just have some inherent distrust of people who get rich quick when I blindly
accept whatever they are selling.

------
return0
I wonder if it is possible to compare today's T levels with men of 100 years
ago or even more. It could be that the industrialization and urbanization has
caused a massive change in T levels because of natural reasons (less sun, less
exercise, less anxiety, processed foods, tight clothing, what have you)

~~~
beaumartinez
Alcohol, plastics (which leech from containers into the liquid they contain),
pesticides (on fruits, vegetables)—there are a host of environmental factors
that reduce our testosterone levels.

And as for anxiety, I think our modern urban lifestyle far increases our
anxiety levels compared to our ancestors.

The human body was not meant for the world we live in!

~~~
epaladin
I've wondered about the effect that environmental factors might have on
Japan's current predicament- something in the water? did processing of soy
products change at some point such that levels of the estrogen analogs ended
up being higher? I guess I haven't been quite curious enough to see if there
have been any rigorous studies that have compared T levels there over the last
few decades.

------
dr_
Assuming there are a significant number of men on here who hope to some day
have a family, it's inportant to note that a significant side effect of
exogenous testosterone administration is male infertility. Simplified, the
excess testosterone in the blood stream sends signals that shut down the
hormones essential for sperm production. This may not matter if you are mid
life or older and already have children, or if you don't plan on having any,
but otherwise do NOT take exogenous testosterone.

~~~
cylinder
HCG, Clomid can be taken to counter that.

~~~
dr_
And anastrazole. However you would have to stop taking exogenous testosterone
and take these meds and it still potentially may not work and you could
require surgery for extraction. They would raise testosterone levels, but you
would not see the same "physical benefits" as a testosterone gel would
provide.

------
basicallydan
I totally get the argument for using testosterone for sex changes.

But as a man who takes his health and fitness into his own hands, I can't help
but wonder if something like testosterone would become slightly addictive. Is
it something one can use to get out of a slump and then stop taking, or is it
more that when one gets to a certain age, it becomes necessary for staying at
desired fitness levels?

~~~
gadders
I've never tried it, but listening to strength training/powerlifting podcasts
they do say that after coming off it can be psychologically addictive as your
lifts and physical capabilities drop.

------
ninguem2
Be very careful. Usually low T has no discernible cause but sometimes it is
caused by a (treatable but potentially very serious) cancer of the pituitary
called a prolactinoma. Testosterone treatment can mask the symptoms until is
too late. See an endocrinologist before embarking on these "over the counter"
treatments.

~~~
johnward
Yep see and endo and urologist. I had a mri of the brain to rule this out.

------
DonCarlitos
Don't forget that Testosterone "feeds" prostate cancer, and that most men will
have one variety of prostate cancer or another by age 75. It's often slow
growing, but if one feeds it, a different story. So potential "T" users should
think twice about messing with this particular hormone.

------
tormeh
It would be nice to have broader shoulders, but an increased sex drive sounds
inconvenient. Life is just more dignified without so much neediness. I don't
get why anyone (without a more sex-hungry partner, ie most men) would want
that. Is it just a gender stereotype / bro thing?

~~~
collyw
I would have assumed wanting broad shoulder would be so you look more
attractive to the opposite sex (or the same sex, if that's what you prefer).

The reason being you are more likely to get more sex...

~~~
tormeh
Well, yes, but the timing is important. I wouldn't want a higher sex drive
unless sex comes easily, which it doesn't.

------
jriley
I found DHEA in the natural aisle of local grocery store under $10. I take a
low dose daily (in my early 30s). Worth researching.

[http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehydroepiandrosterone](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehydroepiandrosterone)

~~~
chrisbennet
Given the recent revelation by the New York attorney general's office [1],
what confidence do you have that you are actually getting what is on the
label?

(I didn't down vote you.)

[1] [http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/03/new-york-
attorney-g...](http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/03/new-york-attorney-
general-targets-supplements-at-major-retailers/?_r=0)

~~~
jriley
Fairly confident, although I do believe there is snake oil on the same aisle.
I've used brands Natrol and Nature's Bounty.

I understand DHEA as a steroid hormone that is a precursor to testosterone. I
consider the drug's banned status in athletic competition as a signal it might
be effective.

From Wiki: "DHEA is legal to sell in the United States as a dietary
supplement. It is currently grandfathered in as an "Old Dietary Ingredient"
being on sale prior to 1994. DHEA is specifically exempted from the Anabolic
Steroid Control Act of 1990 and 2004 It is banned from use in athletic
competition."

~~~
chrisbennet
While DHEA may indeed be effective, if 80% of the natural supplements that
were tested did not contain what the label said, one might conclude that there
is an 80% chance that a bottle labeled "DHEA" really doesn't contain DHEA.

~~~
camouso
80% of /store brand herbal/ supplements. This is an important distinction.
Brand names were fine.

~~~
chrisbennet
Yes, after closer reading of the news articles it does seem that they only
mentioned "store brands". However, I couldn't find anything where it said
brand names were "OK".

My Google foo is failing me, I can't seem to find an actual report, just news
articles. Help a fella out with a link?

------
Xcelerate
I have a hard time believing this. My testosterone level is 1,114 ng/dL
naturally and I sure don't feel pumped full of energy and ready to go all the
time (I'm 24). And I was even a D1 athlete. All it means for me is a greater
risk of prostate cancer (which both my grandfathers had). My doctor was
concerned about it being that high.

Also, I think the rumors about men with high testosterone being aggressive or
having a "player/alpha" mentality have been disproven; I don't remember which
journal that study was in. I'm about the least aggressive person I know. If
anything, I'm too passive and have a difficult time expressing what I want.

------
adrianoconnor
Presumably if you go this route you can't enter any organised sporting events
or do any form of competitive racing? Just saying, because as you get older,
if you start getting some fitness back you'll possibly want to start
challenging yourself this way -- look how many vets enter triathlons and
marathons, ride gran fondos etc. I'd see supplements like this as a last
resort, for when a changed diet/exercise regime etc. haven't worked.

------
whizzrd
Read the leaflets for this product: side effects may differ depending on the
region of application ;)

AU: [http://www.besins-
healthcare.com/pdf/testogel%20patient%20in...](http://www.besins-
healthcare.com/pdf/testogel%20patient%20information%20leaflet%20%28Australia%29.pdf)

US: [http://www.besins-healthcare.com/pdf/androgel_PI.pdf](http://www.besins-
healthcare.com/pdf/androgel_PI.pdf)

~~~
WhitneyLand
This is utterly useless. Many safe drugs have long, scary side effect
descriptions. Conversely, many drugs that have proved harmful over the long
term have done so in ways that weren't described on a side effect disclosure.

~~~
whizzrd
You may find it useless until you experience serious side effects (>1% -
<10%): headache, dizzyness, paraesthesia, amnesia, hyperaesthesia, mood
disorders, hypertension and gynaecomastia

Wondering if someone using this product can confirm these symptoms.

------
bikamonki
[http://www.drugwatch.com/testosterone/side-
effects/](http://www.drugwatch.com/testosterone/side-effects/)

------
anigbrowl
[http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html)

------
nether
You can get (expensive) testosterone (DHT) cream from dhtcream.com. No
prescription, legal everywhere.

------
lafar6502
I wonder what will be the effects of all these tons of testosterone goingh
through humans into water, soil and all other organisms.

------
alecco
This is quack science. I wouldn't exchange temporary muscular gains for
getting bald and other nasty long term side effects.

~~~
WhitneyLand
What is quack about it? Lots of people are noting anecdotally that is has huge
benefits. Are there strong studies disproving this? As to the negative
effects, what is the largest/longest term/most reputable citation you have for
us?

~~~
corin_
What's quack about it is testosterone users calling themselves "doctors" to
sell testosterone to other people. I haven't looked into research on either
side so couldn't tell you whether I think it's a good or stupid thing to do,
other than that if I did consider it I certainly wouldn't be considering the
anecdotes of these people useful data.

------
6stringmerc
Big fan of supplementation...growing up as a couch potato that medical
professionals said should never, ever lift weights due to a physical handicap,
I had a lot of body image issues. The fact I really enjoyed comic books didn't
help my perception either. Just take a look for yourself and the way the Super
Hero bodytype looks like. Straight up juiced[1].

Then, I started natural using a book from the library. Weightlifting actually
helped manage a lot of my physical handicap - by being stronger, I was
reducing the wear and tear on my body. Well, because I still wanted to break
through to another level, I started researching supplements. Using the mind to
grow the body.

Protein, Glutamine, BCAAs, Tribulus, ZMA - all of them are natural ways to
increase physical strength and also grow into a lean, muscular person. They
were good, and eventually I found my way to some PH products. If 19-Norandro
was good enough for Mark McGwire (it wasn't he was on the real stuff, that was
just a cover story), then I was game to try it! Worked great, enjoyed it but
also knew that doing so over a long period of time would have side effects.
Eventually 19-Norandro got banned. There are chemists doing great work in the
field (I've got my eye on one vendor in particular), and they'll always be 1
step ahead of the law, IMO.

I did a couple more different products but never stacked to the point where
I'd need PCT. Honestly, I think budget and liver damage fears were my driving
motives. Just look at Arnold - he had to have heart surgery, and I'd bet a lot
of money it's related to the muscle being exposed to years of heavy steroid
doses[2].

These days I avoid PH or the juice outright. As I age, I might get back into
the scene, but it's a crap shoot. There are far, far too many placebo type
products out there, and the really good stuff has side effects that must be
planned for, otherwise the whole quality of life part goes down, and where's
the fun in that?

Overall, I'd say TRT/PH/Juice are definitely not for everybody, but they're
not inherently evil. Sort of like alcohol. Not everybody can knock back a
dozen beers during a weekend marathon session at home and still be productive
/ nice / etc, but it's possible depending on the individual.

[1] Freshman year of University the next door neighbor was a Pre-Med, about
5'2" and 205 lbs. We became pals and he let me in on the steroid secrets
(cycling, GHB for sleep, etc). We did have a good laugh talking about how
comic book characters reflected different steroids: Want to be Captain
America? Deca. Wolverine? Winstrol. Sabretooth? Deca + Winstrol! It was a joke
in a lot of ways, but kind of not...

[2] Arnold is coming!
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sHvWYAzIRo](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sHvWYAzIRo)

~~~
RankingMember
Just curious, but would you mind specifying the handicap this helped you
overcome? I'm genuinely curious and it would add more context to your story.

------
svantana
Is it just me, or did this article completely assume that it's reader is male?

~~~
floatboth
It definitely assumes the reader wants to be (more) masculine...

