
Uber CEO responds to concern that Uber's SF service is decreasing in quality - pud
https://www.facebook.com/traviskal/posts/10151956134345944
======
crbnw00ts
> All of Uber's old school power users have gotten used to Uber and simply
> expect our service as a baseline at this point. What I mean is that as you
> have gotten used to Uber, your expectations of basic fundamental service
> have risen.

Yeah ... no. I got fed up with taxi service in SF about 2 years ago and
started using Uber. At first I was astounded: very clean cars, very nice
drivers who were accommodating and pleasant (all I want is a quiet ride
without the radio blaring or the driver shouting into his phone the whole
way). Best of all, the drivers were knowledgable about the city and didn't
need me to tell them turn-by-turn how to do something basic like get across
town. It was what I always wanted, and totally worth the extra cost vs. a
regular taxi.

It's hard to put my finger on exactly when it started, but in the last few
months the "black car" service has degraded to the point where it feels like
the old taxi days. Usually the car is dirty, smells bad, the driver has the
radio blasting loud (and doesn't exactly react all that well if I ask to turn
it down or off), and the driver's attitude is frequently incredibly grouchy
(I've had to listen to them complain about their jobs quite a bit lately), and
worst of all, they don't know their way around the city at all.

Just to make sure I wasn't experiencing what Mr. Kalanick is suggesting in
terms my expectations being calibrated differently, I have made it a point to
take regular taxis a few times lately. Instead of a categorically different
experience (which is how I would have described the difference between Uber
and a taxi in the past), the only differences now between the taxi and the
Uber "black car" service seem to be the price and the color of the outside of
the car. Oh, and in some cases the regular taxi drivers actually know the city
better than the Uber drivers.

I don't really blame Uber for all this, as I'm sure it's really hard to
maintain that level of quality while growing at double-digit rates. But I do
think they need to take a good hard look at the "black car" service and make
sure the drivers know what kind of experience they are supposed to provide. It
really should not feel like a taxi with a different coat of paint on the
outside.

~~~
tolmasky
_> and worst of all, they don't know their way around the city at all._

This is my main concern. I am notoriously bad at directions and hate having a
driver that I basically need to direct. Especially because that just means
I'll be pulling out my Maps app instead of him using the navigation that I can
clearly see sitting on his dashboard (I am SO confused by this behavior).
Sometimes they'll just get frustrated with me (because I don't know how to get
there!) and then finally type it in themselves as if its some huge
inconvenience.

~~~
andrewf
UberX drivers seem increasingly inclined to expect me to pull out the maps app
and navigate for them. It is annoying. Aren't you the one being paid to drive?

I have not necessarily been to a particular destination before. Even if I
have, I might want to have my attention on something (my phone, my laptop, how
much I want to go to bed..) other than the road.

~~~
xgarland
I've experienced this far too often in the past few months, it's starting to
become a bit unbearable. Just not sure why Uber continues to onboard drivers
who seem incompetent and have no sense of direction.

It'd be nice if I can get in the car and get to my destination without feeling
like a got damn TOM TOM by the time I arrive.

------
smokey_the_bear
We started using Uber this year to get to the airport. Though we are happy
with the price, and very happy with the ease of scheduling, every single ride
has made me uncomfortable with the safety and comfort of the service.

Over four rides to the airport this year, these things have happened:

1) Three of the times the drivers claimed the AC wasn't working, and we had to
drive on the interstate with the windows down.

2) The driver missed the exit for SFO, and drove through the median to get to
it

3) Two drivers did not know how to get to OAK

4) I (a pregnant woman) was traveling alone with my infant son. Driver did not
help load stroller and luggage into the trunk. Threw luggage out of the trunk
onto the curb when we arrived at the airport.

Transportation always kind of sucks, and maybe this is the best you can buy
for $72 from Berkeley to SFO. My Uber experiences have been uniformly worse
than my taxi to/from airport experiences. But they are slightly cheaper and
easier to schedule.

~~~
1qaz2wsx3edc
This is the problem with Uber.

Most drivers, don't give two shits about the job. And it's hard to blame most
of them if you understand the dispatcher-model they generally work under. It's
very cut-throat and has high pressures.

While this isn't an excuse on Uber's part, I think it's where Uber can step in
and improve things. Originally Uber's goal was too make Taxi's an app. They've
succeeded with that. Now they need to improve quality, and not necessary the
quality of the app, but the drivers. They have to force a cultural shift
through an antiquated market, where education levels are highly variable. They
should test a drivers knowledge about Uber and ensure they know what customer
expect in terms of service. On the flip side, it should be very clear to the
customer what they should expect in terms of service.

They also need to improve there mechanism for feedback. They need this because
they _must_ force out bad drivers. It's single handily ruining their
reputation.

Uber is great, the drivers are variable.

All that said, I live in a city and almost completely replaced my taxi usage
with an eBike, so I hardly use the app anymore, but when I was a regular user
(10-20 rides a month). Classical dispatching companies were much more reliable
then Uber.

~~~
_delirium
Uber claims [1] they have a " _series of rigorous screening tests, including a
background check, an in-person screening, a city knowledge exam, and other
ongoing quality controls_ ".

If true, that would seem to address your point about screening driver quality.
But a number of people are reporting drivers who don't really know their way
around the city, which suggests (if those reports are true) that the city-
knowledge exam is either not rigorous enough, or somehow not testing the right
thing.

[1] [http://blog.uber.com/2013/02/25/uber-sf-to-add-more-
drivers-...](http://blog.uber.com/2013/02/25/uber-sf-to-add-more-drivers-to-
uberx-more-cars-shorter-wait-times/)

~~~
michaelt
Even if you have a perfect city knowledge exam, how do you ensure the guy
driving the car is the guy who passed the exam?

~~~
rhizome
London has been using The Knowledge for 150 years, it's a solved problem.

~~~
_delirium
To replicate that, though, Uber would also have to replicate some of the state
apparatus around it, which they may or may not be able to do (or even want to
do, ideologically). The London exam is effective in part because it's backed
by law: it's illegal to drive a taxi if you haven't passed a licensing exam,
and it's also illegal for someone who is properly licensed to lend out their
credentials to a friend who'll pick up some people on their behalf, while the
licensed driver takes the day off. And as you make the exam more rigorous,
those counter-pressures increase, so if Uber had an _actually_ rigorous
knowledge exam, they would also have huge levels of cheating if there were no
attempt at serious enforcement.

Uber _could_ try to institute both a rigorous knowledge exam, and a high level
of enforcement of the rule that only people who actually passed it may drive
cars under Uber's name. But they would need some credible way of doing that,
like roving undercover inspectors.

~~~
kamkazemoose
You could have the app send you a picture of the person who should be picking
you up. The user could then report if someone else comes to pick them up. The
only problem I'd see is that it might make riders uncomfortable if it is
someone different, they might not want to cause a scene or any sort of
confrontation, and they want to get to their destination, but they also
wouldn't want to ride with someone unlicensed.

So I'm not sure exactly how you'd get around that problem. Maybe you give
people who report that they have a different driver say $20 credit, and the
ride is free or something. Of course then you'll have people trying to cheat
the system.

------
pg
It's a sign of strength in a company when the CEO can talk candidly about
problems like this. Every company has problems, most worse than this, but they
rarely talk about them except in the blandest, most evasive way.

Conspicuous candor.

~~~
droopyEyelids
It was candid, but before I'd call it conspicuous I'd like to see him explain
the driver on-boarding process and the level of knowledge it requires of city
routes. This especially applies to UberX. I think it'd help everyone adjust
their expectations.

~~~
onedev
Knowledge of city routes isn't THAT relevant when you can easily depend on
Google Maps. Almost every time I use Uber, the drivers have used Google Maps
if they didn't readily know where I wanted to go and I didn't mind them using
it either. It instill confidence in me that they're following an optimized
route provided by Google.

~~~
wwweston
I don't know how it is for SF, but in LA, Google's routes are not necessarily
optimal, _particularly_ at rush hour. I like Uber, and many of the drivers
I've had have been great, but there's definitely been a handful of trips where
I thought drivers relied on Google's routing when they shouldn't have.

~~~
onedev
I guess I'm speaking as someone who grew up driving in the era of smartphones
and readily available GPS so even when I personally drive, I depend HEAVILY on
Google maps. Like I'd really be lost without it.

I guess not relying on GPS map routing is something that I cannot fathom. It
always impresses me when friends can just rattle off highway routes and
directions.

~~~
wwweston
> Like I'd really be lost without it.

You might be lost for a while. What would probably happen next is that you'd
start to build a mental map of the relevant territory, augmenting personal
experience with some kind of map, paper or digital. Then you'd start
developing the habit of getting directions or studying a map before you went
somewhere there was a gap in the knowledge in your head.

At least, that's how it worked for me when I moved from a city so small (and
grid-based) that nobody I knew used any kind of nav aid at all... to Los
Angeles. I'm a little hesitant to say it would _certainly_ work this way for
_everyone_ , given that variety in people's backgrounds and brains. But I
suspect navigating is something people are generally more wired for than not.
Chances are, you could do it too.

------
smackfu
That's confusing that he pulled a response to someone else's post into a
standalone post, without quoting this Noah person for context.

Here's the original complaint:

============================================================

I'm a huge #Uber fan, but the service has been getting really bad lately.
Anyone else experiencing these issues?

-App shows a car 2 minutes away, and when I reserve, it then says the car is 8 minutes away

-Drivers who increasingly have no knowledge of the city and/or driving routes

-Drivers who increasingly have trouble communicating in English

-After booking, the car gets further away (significantly) before it gets closer on their way to pick me up.

-Surge pricing becoming the norm--even during traditional "non-peak" hours

Again, I've been and continue to be a huge fan of Uber, but the past couple
months have been disappointing. On the plus side, I had an awesome Pakistani
driver yesterday who had a great story to tell about how he emigrated to
America and is making twice as much driving for Uber than his old taxi. Pretty
cool.

[https://www.facebook.com/noah.lichtenstein/posts/10100797782...](https://www.facebook.com/noah.lichtenstein/posts/10100797782090093)

~~~
PilateDeGuerre
The complaint about the time going from 2 minutes to 8 minutes and also the
car getting further away before getting closer sounds like the Uber drivers
are doubling as Lyft drivers or other taxi-like apps. They have every
incentive to always have a passenger in the car. It sounds like they are
communicating with Uber that they will pick Noah up while they are almost done
delivering a passenger from another service.

~~~
russell_h
What I've seen a lot of is drivers marking my ride as complete when they get
within a few blocks of my destination. I originally wrote it off to the driver
trying to earn a better rating in light of heavy traffic or navigation
difficulties, but it seems to be becoming more routine. In a few cases they've
accepted another fare before they even drop me off.

Recently I saw this for the first time on a trip to SFO, which actually makes
a lot of sense - since its a fixed price, they're not giving anything up by
marking my ride complete as soon as they hit the exit for SFO.

------
noahdanlic
As the original poster to Facebook that Travis is responding to, I'd just like
to add a few thoughts here. First, I'm an early adopter of Uber and have been
+ remain a big fan of the company. Second, I commend Travis for taking the
time to write out his thoughts and provide a well-thought out response--even
if I don't fully agree with everything he wrote. Third, I think it's a good
sign for Uber that a) people care enough to be talking about
it...passionately; and b) their CEO is involved in the debate. Fourth, the
quality in SF has been declining for those of us with a longitudinal view over
time, and even if the top-line metric of overall reviews inflates the NPS
score, the fact that this is striking a chord with "power users" should be
alarming. Fifth, I think this is correctable, and is not unique for a company
scaling this quickly. Thanks everyone for the debate. - Noah Lichtenstein

------
annon
Perhaps the reason that the quality numbers have been mostly flat is because
drivers have been pushing to get 5 star reviews.

In case you didn't know, as a customer of uber, the driver gives you a star
rating just like you give the driver. A lot of people in SF have figured that
out, and a lot of time I'll get an offer of "5 for 5." The drivers are letting
you know that if you give them a 5 star rating they will give you one.

On top of that, drivers more and more push for a good rating, trying to make
you feel bad if you don't give them 5 stars.

I can't recall these pressures in the past, and if they are working, then
quality numbers staying flat actually mean they are quite down.

\----

That said, I am still an avid user of Uber, using it almost every day. My
biggest concern is the same others have voiced, the drivers have no idea where
they are in the city. I'm not talking cross streets, I'm saying a lot of time
they don't even know how to get to a whole neighborhood. They also don't
appear to be good 'city drivers,' and frequently seem to put bikers at risk
due to that.

~~~
lukasb
Why they push for five stars: apparently you get fired if your star rating
falls below 4.6 or 4.7 (can't remember which.)

Source: Uber drivers, so biased, but have you ever seen a driver with a 4.5
rating?

~~~
Matt_Mickiewicz
I can confirm, I've heard this from drivers as well.

As an anecdote, the one time I left a 1-star review, the next day I had a
20-min wait to get a car. Not sure if it was bad luck or I was getting
penalized for leaving a bad review...

~~~
rhizome
Yeah, well, my auto shop told me they were going to send me a survey about my
visit and that, "anything less than a 10 is failure," so don't discount gaming
the stats on the provider end.

~~~
krrrh
That seems to be part of the program for vendors like Ford, where the employee
asks the customer to call them if there is anything that they can't rate
perfectly so they can fix the issue for them. They use the survey as a way of
flushing out issues that the customer wouldn't otherwise voice so they can
deal with them. It's less about collecting stats, and more about having an
extra tool to get the customer to happy.

------
gmisra
For me, the convenience of Uber was always in the predictability of when the
car would arrive. Flywheel
([http://www.flywheel.com/](http://www.flywheel.com/)) has finally effectively
solved that problem for regular cabs, after half a dozen apps tried. Anecdotal
conversations with taxi drivers indicate that they are pretty happy with the
Flywheel service as well - it is definitely the best received app by drivers.

Using an app that seems to treat driver's more fairly is worth something to
me, YMMV.

~~~
BrianEatWorld
How does FlyWheel differentiate from other apps such as, HailACab in Austin,
that seem to offer the same three primary benefits?

You mention the experience for cab drivers. Do they have some sort of smarter
queuing or other benefits?

It seems all these apps address the consumer facing side of things, but to
truly address the driver side, wouldn't it make sense to leverage data to try
and better predict needs or routes so that there is less time lost waiting or
traveling between fares?

------
digitalinfinity
I think some of it might be self-inflicted too rather than purely a scaling
issue. Anecdotal evidence here but probably relevant- I got a mail from Uber a
while back, where (presumably) some automation noticed that I was taking a
bunch of uber rides to the airport when I was in Boston, but never from, so it
offered some Uber credit to use from the airport. I was pretty stoked that
Uber had such great analytics and this past Saturday, requested an uber when I
landed. Once I got picked up however, it was a different story, with the
driver claiming I had "tricked him" and that it was illegal for him to pick
anyone up from the airport and that Uber had specifically given him guidance
not to pick anyone up from the airport. Clearly there was some
miscommunication there and although he calmed down once I explained my side of
the story, it still creates a bad experience (probably for both the customer
and the driver). Uber support was reasonably prompt in getting back to me but
it was somewhat of a non-reply and I still don't know if picking people up at
Logan Airport is a supported scenario or not. However, my positive experiences
with Uber far outweigh the negative ones and I think Uber still has that
built-up goodwill going for it which should cushion it through these growing
pains.

~~~
jamestnz
> and that it was illegal for him to pick anyone up from the airport and that
> Uber had specifically given him guidance not to pick anyone up from the
> airport

This potentially has some truth to it. Many times, to operate a passenger
service to/from the airport requires the operator to purchase a (costly)
license from the airport authority. Depending on bylaws etc, unlicensed
operators who provide passenger service to/from the airport will be subject to
fines. In other words, providing access to ground-transport operators seems to
be a revenue stream for the airport, but also likely serves to protect the air
passengers from cowboy/dodgy transport operators outside the terminal.

Anecdotally, I once struck up a conversation with a taxi driver in Sydney,
Australia. We'd passed a pedestrian who (for some reason) was standing on
airport land, some distance from the terminals, trying to hail the passing
taxis. The driver remarked to me that they'd be waiting for a while, as no
taxi would ever stop there: Apparently it is stipulated in the contract that
the taxi company has with the airport, that they can only collect and drop
fares in the designated areas outside of the terminals. If they pick up a fare
at any other location on airport land, they are subject to large fines (he
said $10k, but perhaps this was hyperbole). I found this an interesting
insight into the level of regulation apparently applied to airport ground-
transport operators.

------
thrillgore
I remain unconvinced. In Atlanta alone I find myself waiting up to 30 minutes
for a UberX because nobody tells them about potential traffic conditions, and
nobody knows the city routes. Maybe its different when I price up to just Uber
service, but this is pretty inexcusable.

~~~
brodney
I've used Uber over a dozen times in Atlanta. I've used each of the three
tiers of service as well, and in varying traffic conditions. I used Uber, and
UberX whenever it was available, morning and night going to Dragon*Con in
downtown Atlanta (read: bad traffic) and every time they were punctual and the
trip was quick. I typically wait no more than 10 minutes for a driver of any
tier.

We're both just a data point, but I'm surprised you've had such a bad
experience where I now refuse taxi service in favor of Uber. The quality
difference is night and day.

------
bsgreenb
I prefer taking Lyft to Uber because with the former the default mode is
friendly conversation. When you take an Uber the assumption is that neither of
you will talk to each other, like in a Taxi or Limo. In this sense Lyft is
more revolutionary than Uber because it fundamentally changes the social
dynamic, not just the economics.

~~~
_delirium
Huh, I've always thought of chatting as the default in taxis (though not
limos). Drivers seem to usually engage in small-talk with me, at least in
California and southern Europe. I'm so used to it that the first time I took a
taxi in Scandinavia, where the default is no chatting, I was sort of weirded
out by the awkwardly silent ride.

~~~
snogglethorpe
It sort of depends on the location, but yeah, some places in the U.S. seem to
have super chatty drivers; I've heard some great stories that way.

Interestingly, this _hasn 't_ been the case any time I've taken a taxi in NYC
(where taxis seem even more a fundamental part of everyday life than most
places) in the last decade or two. Now the drivers usually just yell into a
cellphone nonstop for the entire ride...

~~~
_delirium
That's been the same for me in NYC, but the whole taxi setup in NYC feels very
"high-security", with only a small window peering through a bullet-resistant
barrier between the front and back seats. That makes it feel more like a limo,
since the driver is in a quasi-armored compartment separate from you, and it
doesn't really encourage a friendly chat. In most other parts of the world a
taxi is just a regular car, without internal barriers.

Actually now I'm a bit unsure: what is the regional etiquette on whether a
single passenger should sit in the back or the front? When I lived in LA, I
usually just sat in front, which nobody ever complained about, but in
retrospect maybe that was weird? It's definitely more conducive to smalltalk
if you're in the front passenger seat, sitting next to the driver.

------
etler
Anything is better than waiting an hour for a taxi to show up, and then having
to call a friend because the company just forgot about you.

~~~
gscott
I have had this happen to me so when I see people concerned about waiting 8
minutes instead of 2 I have to wonder, do they want the cars to have wings? 8
minutes sounds pretty good to me.

~~~
prawn
Then tell people it's 8 minutes. I think it's the difference in reported vs
reality that's frustrating users.

------
blhack
I wonder what kind of response we would get from the CEO of Yellow Cab if
people complained that their service was degrading.

------
pla3rhat3r
It's a challenge to be a popular company that everyone would like in their
market. Yet, in every single city there are differing rules that govern taxis.
I'd LOVE to have Uber in Portland but the local Government is the road block.
In cities that Uber is available, they're growing.

I love this company and use them any chance I can. I know that they're doing
everything they can to be the best company and the best service for those that
want to use them.

------
andrewljohnson
I had a bad ride to OAK from Berkeley, wrong freeway, no AC, it was a mess.
But the Uber app prompted me for feedback, and I got a personal support
message and a credit when I complained.

I will Uber again, as it is easily the most convenient way to get to the
airport, and I can tell that the software is rigged to continuously improve
the company. After a lifetime of cab nightmares, I'll take Uber with double
the warts.

------
ameister14
I've definitely had mixed experiences with Uber in San Francisco; In LA the
drivers were excellent, here it seems to be hit or miss.

This seems to be a particular problem as regards UberX. With the Surge pricing
making UberX more expensive, it's not really worth it for me if I have to show
the guy where to go and he's not nice or accommodating in any way.

------
malandrew
I would really like to see an aggregate app that only handles the buy side of
the market and let Uber, Sidecar, Lyft, taxis and others handle the sell side
of the market. This way, you could have an app that shows you the rating of
the companies relative to one another. Every vote for a driver would also be a
vote for the company as well. If a company wasn't great, you can opt to stop
seeing drivers from them.

------
ruggeri
Like several others, I've had the problem where I need to give directions,
despite the driver having a GPS enabled phone. Do we know why they do this?
It's by no means a big inconvenience for me, but it's somewhat perplexing, at
least...

PS: I'm extremely happy with Uber. My experience with calling cabs was forged
on the south side of Chicago, where they seldom ever actually came. It was
miserable.

------
bjeanes
They are looking at average quality metrics. I think they should be looking at
perc based quality metrics. That would have reflected a drop and the
variability far earlier on. In this sense, it's akin to performance metrics —
you want to find out what % of your users are experiencing what levels of
service.

------
jasonwilk
Uber, at it's worst, is still far better than any experience I've had with
traditional cabs.

------
ffrryuu
You get what you paid for.

------
dyc
2 and 8 minutes? Are you serious? Sure you're being promised something and
getting something else, but....

At least it's better than being promised that a cab would come in 15 minutes,
and then having to wait in the rain for 50 minutes instead.

~~~
smackfu
Here was the original comment he was responding to:

-App shows a car 2 minutes away, and when I reserve, it then says the car is 8 minutes away

The only way that seems like it would happen is if the driver who was 2
minutes away rejected the call.

