
Psychological Effects of a 1-Month Meditation Retreat - idclip
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5149565/
======
ChuckNorris89
Yeah, that study is pretty worthless but anecdotally, I have been to a similar
retreat and even though it was _only_ 10 days, it was totally worth it.

10 days of not talking to anyone, meditating everyday in a group, sleeping
with a schedule, eating clean, being away from acquaintances, away from
smartphones, social media or electronic distractions, away from shopping and
ads, away from the soulless job and the crushing commute meant I could no
longer ignore or drown out those thoughts in my head keeping me up at night
and I had to _consume_ them so they no longer haunt me.

The effects were long lasting, better than what I got from meditating at home
with the aid of apps, but only if you commit to living a healthy lifestyle
after. If you go back to eating junk and swiping on Instagram at 2 A.M, it's
on you.

Would recommend you give it a try of you can.

~~~
noobhacker
Could you suggest a low cost option for meditation retreat? I'd really like to
do one, but the idea of paying $1000 for what's supposed to be a no-frill,
minimalist, anti-materialistic experience still trips me up. (As a reference,
I rarely spend more than $500 for any kind of leisure trip.)

I understand that I'm being naive here, that "the Dharma is free but the light
is not." Perhaps if cheap retreat is not an option, you can also reframe my
thinking about the cost.

~~~
q845712
as others have said there's many donation based retreats available.

I can also offer a rough line-item of where money goes, on retreat that have a
sticker price:

1.) Cost. Many communities don't have their own retreat facilities and are
thus basically booking room and board at a venue. Every venue has different
amenities, costs, and profit models, but even a retreat site that operates at
low margins as a gift, where retreatants share rooms and do substantial
amounts of their own cooking and cleaning, even that is easily going to top
$50 per person per day, while having a basically "resort-ish" experience where
the group has single rooms and very little chores can approach $200 per day
(in California).

2.) Back into the community who volunteered to organize it. There's probably
100-200+ labor hours behind every retreat, which is done in part so the
teachings and practice can flourish, but is also motivated by the need to keep
paying rent and other expenses on the community's primary practice and meeting
space.

3.) To subsidize others. I think the teacher or leader of almost anything
typically pays a reduced rate or nothing in recognition for their skill and
leadership. Additionally it's not uncommon for part of the "profit" from
retreats to be rolled into a scholarship funds for those whose ability to
contribute is less than the bottom line costs, when the amount from donations
doesn't match the need.

Also, Buddhism, and even more so mindfulness isn't necessarily concerned with
conforming to our ideas of minimalist or anti-materialistic. While it's true
that renunciation is often presented as part of the Buddhist path, retreats
meet people where they are in their readiness to leave their comforts behind.
A 5 - 14 day retreat might offer such comforts as the presence of a swimming
pool or lounge furniture during break times so that people don't feel like
they've joined monastic boot camp. There's many different things that get
called "meditation retreat" and generally they're each well suited for
different people at different times.

~~~
riskneutral
I like the swimming pool idea.

------
programmertote
Just a personal anecdote. I was born in a family of Theravada Buddhist
parents. My late dad was an avid meditator. He'd go on week-long retreats to
meditate at least a couple of times a year, and my mom also does similar. I
tried meditating a little and gave up because I personally found that I am not
able to stick to a routine (like meditate every day for 15 minutes). As I grow
old, I became an atheist and read a lot of philosophy. I picked up stoicism
and parts and pieces of everything I liked from reading. I use them to be
self-aware and always try to see things as if they are impermanent. That
really helps me calm down in stressful situations and be content with my life
in a lot of ways. I do not meditate because I don't have the discipline, but I
feel like I found my inner peace and live a pretty content, minimalist life.

I have a friend from home country who works in wall streets. She went to
Princeton and is pretty high up there in management echelon. She has a fierce
and competitive personality. She would always encourage me to go on meditation
retreats in MA (Massachusetts), and she goes there pretty often. She also goes
to a meditation group who meet near Times Square every few weeks. But you know
what, I found her life to be miserable. She has had at least two mental
breakdowns that I know of. She is always inquisitive of what I am doing, what
job I have, how much I make at the moment whenever I see her. In my mind, I
wanted to tell her, "Sister (a way of addressing someone older with respect in
my culture), you're always stressed out and need meditation therapy because
you are always worried about what/how others are doing. Meditation wouldn't
help you much if you keep doing this." But of course, I don't want to spoil
our friendship, so I never told her that.

I think I see a lot of meditation posts in HN because people here are chasing
a lot of things at the same time. In other words, people here tend to be over-
achievers and ambitious. I am not one, and I'm okay without meditation. I
always try to take middle-path (that is the core of Buddhist teaching from my
understanding) if I can; limit my wants and only try to fill my essential
needs; try to always judge myself as a human (with needs/wants) first and then
from a third person's point of view (to be self-aware so that I can control
myself when I'm too upset/having a bad day); and in general, I just try to
reduce as much "ah-ku-tho" (bad karma including greed, envy, anxiety, anger,
etc.) as I can from my daily life.

Hope this lengthy post is interesting to some.

~~~
keyle
> But of course, I don't want to spoil our friendship, so I never told her
> that.

Maybe she needs to hear it. The key is to get her to ask herself questions,
rather than telling. It's best done by suggestions and questions that prompts
thoughts.

If you tell a hamster there is no point running so hard in the wheel, it will
probably run harder.

~~~
programmertote
You know, I might one day end up sharing her my perspective. I just need to
phrase it in a nice, non-condescending way. Thank you for the encouragement.

------
surfsvammel
I don’t get it. What did the control group do? Did they go on a retreat of
some kind? Or did they just go on with their normal stressful lives of picking
up at daycare, commuting through traffic jams and passive aggressiveness of
laundry rooms?

I would like to see the effect of the meditation itself.

~~~
elcomet
> The control group was asked not to participate in any retreat (even as short
> as a 1-day retreat) during the 1-month study period. Their usual daily
> meditation practice was maintained (40–50 min/session).

~~~
kdmccormick
Oh, so this isn't even meditation vs. non-meditation... it's being in your
day-to-day life vs. being away from it.

I'd like to see the long-term effects of a month-long meditation retreat vs. a
month-long Carribean getaway, or something similar. I'm saying this as someone
who appreciates meditation.

~~~
mettamage
I know this is scientifically hard, but in spirit I would want to know the
following:

Meditation vs do whatever makes you feel the happiest, as you see fit

~~~
i_cant_speel
It would be difficult to allow people to _actually_ do what makes them
happiest vs doing what the can do to make themselves happy within the
limitations of their life situations.

------
Retric
“any of the mindfulness courses given by our group during the last 3 years”

This is exactly the kind of bias that makes a study questionable. Is there any
good literature tracking such issues, or list of studies with such problems?

------
rasengan0
Studies like these are great for the popsci filter bubble, not so great for
establishing credibility.

I'm biased and believe in contemplation as an overall life sustaining
practice.

Lovely checklist: \- controlled, non-randomized \- small sample size \-
validation by industry standard made up surveys and scales named with stupid
acronyms \- super terrific vague conclusion: "A 1-month Vipassana meditation
retreat seems to yield improvements in mindfulness, well-being, and
personality, even in experienced meditators."

Imagine all the money and effort to get this published.

Earth to researchers: eating avocado toast in 108 seconds seems to yield
improvements in mindfulness, well-being, and personality.

------
rblion
I plan on going to one in 2020, trying to make the arrangements as we speak.

------
hello_tyler
20 person study of people who already practice meditation is pretty much
worthless.

------
lukaa
First of all I have to say that i despise calling something scientific work
that is clearly way more subjective than mesaurable like science. For example
question: does this engine spend less fuel than one before is clear way to
show was that invention good or not, do you have better wellbeing after some
treatment is completely open for placebo effect and can't be in same category.
IMO meditation 'science' if it ever wants to be true science should
concentrate on mesaurable mental qualities like IQ and memory. So true science
question should be: how large is your IQ score before and after meditation
retreat or how much you can remember things in 2 min before and after.
Everything other is not science and is higly debatable. Honestly I'm quite
suprised that engineers spend so much time on so unproved technique to
increase quality of their work and life.

~~~
teyc
You are misinformed. The tools for measuring brain changes are getting better
and more precise. We now have tools to measure brain activity, gray matter
thickness, stress levels, and these reports are as good as measuring NO2 from
engine exhaust. There's so much literature around this, it just knocks your
karma if you spout ignorance just because you choose not to look.

~~~
lukaa
”There is a common misperception in public and government domains that
compelling clinical evidence exists for the broad and strong efficacy of
mindfulness as a therapeutic intervention,” a group of 15 scholars wrote in a
recent article entitled Mind the Hype. The reality is that mindfulness-based
therapies have shown “a mixture of only moderate, low or no efficacy,
depending on the disorder being treated,” the scholars wrote, citing a 2014
meta-analysis commissioned by the US Agency for Healthcare Research and
Quality.
Source:[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5758421/#!po=0....](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5758421/#!po=0.209205)

