
iPad 9.7‑inch - smoser
http://www.apple.com/ipad-9.7/
======
JohnnyConatus
There is a legendary story about how Steve Jobs, upon his return to Apple,
drastically cut-down the number of models that they offer. How on earth have
they forgotten that lesson? Trying to figure out the differences between the
9.7" iPad and iPad pro is not easy, and regardless, it makes it harder to buy.

~~~
squeaky-clean
I always thought that was the iDevice's strength. With Android, you have
nothing actually made by Google but by OEMs, with different names and branding
that don't give any real information.

Which phone is "the android"? My mom doesn't think she has an android phone,
she thinks she has an LG and that Android is a different thing. People buy a
low end Android phone and hate the entire ecosystem because the phone performs
like crap. I have a friend who thinks the Galaxy S7 would be a crappy upgrade
because they already have a "Galaxy Core Prime".

When there was just the iPhone, it was really easy. It was expensive compared
to other options, but you knew it was the best iPhone, and the one with a
higher number was better than one with a lower number. Yet an LG G5 is better
than a Samsung Galaxy S6, they are somehow both "Android", and Marshmallow is
better than Jelly Bean.

Now the iPhone isn't that bad, but it's not simple anymore. iPhone 7, iPhone
7Plus, iPhone 7S, iPhone 7S Plus, iPhone SE. Which is better?

~~~
nkkollaw
It's still not that bad.

It's always a version number (ex., 7), the following version they add an 'S'
(ex., 7S), then the following version they will increase the version number
(ex., 8). "Plus" means bigger, and you can regognize it because it's bigger,
"SE" means lower-end, you can recognize it because it costs a lot less.

I currently own a Huawei Y6II, which I read is a clone of the P9. No idea what
it means, what the following version will be called, or what the previous
version was called.

~~~
squeaky-clean
> "Plus" means bigger, and you can regognize it because it's bigger, "SE"
> means lower-end, you can recognize it because it costs a lot less.

It's also a smaller phone, just like how the Plus is larger and costs more,
but isn't any faster. The name or price of SE doesn't imply lower end at all,
they've even removed the number so you don't know which one it's comparable
to.

I agree it's not awful, just that it's slipping.

~~~
nkkollaw
I don't know, I tried switching to PCs for a while, I couldn't get how their
naming works.

I mean, where do you even begin to try to figure this out:
[http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/](http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/)

~~~
komali2
You just look at the hardware and read reviews. There isn't really a sliding
scale for PCs, that's the awesome thing about manufacturers that let you
customize. Doing a lot of gaming or modelling? Better graphics card. Running
shitloads of processes? Better ram. Better processor. Extra HDD, or SSD, or
optical drive? Etc.

~~~
nkkollaw
So, because they aren't sane enough to figure out a naming scheme that makes
sense, I have to waste hours or days looking at reviews just to understand
what the difference is between the models? From what I could understand it's
possible that the X67L is a good laptop, the X67LX is a crappy low-cost
plastic netbook. How dumb is that.

Also, why do they ask me if my laptop is for work or home? What if I use it
for both (which I do)? It doesn't make any sense.

I bought the new MacBook Pro mostly because of macOS, but also because I
couldn't figure out how PC name their products, nor why they have to have 50
different barely-different models.

~~~
davnn
Coming from the PC universe, the process is different.

1\. Define: You first decide what you actually want 2\. Search: Your search is
entirely based on value for money (you have defined value before) 3\. Decide:
You read reviews and decide which one to take 4\. Buy: Find the cheapest offer

Not once should you have to care about the name of the product, it simply does
not matter.

There should be more than enough databases that let you sort and filter the
latest notebooks.

~~~
nkkollaw
If it doesn't matter, they should pick easier ones.

They lost at least myself as a customer. I doubt I'm the only one on the
planet who didn't buy a PC because he couldn't figure out the offer.

~~~
komali2
Well, to be honest, it sounds like you care about the "name" and thus the
value the company trying to _sell you a product_ wants you to believe that
product is worth.

So apple could release the iPhone 8 with the same specs as the 3GS, and you'd
get bamboozled because you can't be bothered to do your research before
purchasing something.

------
berberous
From a Reddit comment, in addition to the bump from a A8x to A9 chip:

\- It's as thick as the iPad Air 1 (and thus thicker than the Air 2/9.7" Pro).

\- No laminated display (and no AR coating, True Tone, or wide color).

\- Air 2 quality camera.

\- The iPad mini 4 is now only available in 128GB, at $399.

\- The chamfers look matte, like the iPhone SE.

Also, no Pencil support or smart connector.

~~~
hellofunk
> Also, no Pencil support or smart connector.

the website shows pencil support:

[http://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/](http://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/)

Edit: My apologies, I thought we were discussing the 9.7 Pro.

~~~
throwanem
No, it doesn't. The only models with a check mark in that row are the two Pro
models.

Perhaps they've just updated the page?

------
Larrikin
I've gotten a lot of use out of my iPad 3 and, up until it stopped getting
updates and the touch screen started breaking down in the past few months,
found no reason to upgrade or replace it. I use it nearly daily but mostly for
reading textbooks and novels, reviewing language cards, and occasionally
watching YouTube videos. It's been extremely useful for taking to the gym and
allowing me to study while on the elliptical.

But I got it in a different time. There weren't many tablets available at the
time and a retina screen was critical for small text. As I've looked around
recently, it's become very hard to justify getting a new iPad over something
like the surface.

How do people justify the purchase in 2017? Seriously asking as I am looking
to replace my iPad with something in the next few weeks.

~~~
mixmastamyk
Still have an iPad 2, which works fine except for Safari on a heavy site, runs
out of memory I think. Very happy from that angle.

But, I've moved to a Nexus 10 for movie watching, for the screen and because
it is so much easier to _copy a freaking file_ to it! I need to copy movies
ripped from DVD often, or the occasional download. Apple goes out of their way
to prevent that, and why I can't really recommend purchasing another. A shame
really, talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

~~~
djrogers
> Apple goes out of their way to prevent that

Hardly... drag ripped movie into iTunes, sync movie to iPad, done. Or just
give up on DVDs and buy/stream digital movies :-)

~~~
mixmastamyk
No, I use Linux on my laptop, hasn't worked with Apple devices for three years
or so. But even if I didn't, I would not use that 100mb monstrosity to copy a
file.

I do stream with Netflix, works fine on Android. Many of the files are from
torrents as well, DVD is not the issue in itself.

There is no advantage for iPad for a movie-watching tablet, and why I switched
for that use case.

------
J0-nas
I just hope for the one big presentation where they refresh iMac, Mac mini,
Mac Pro, and maybe some "next big thing" for desktop PCs.

And for the love of god, if they do this please have some USB-A ports...

~~~
Kyro38
USB-A is dead.

~~~
tim333
USB-A is still the most widely used port. My friend bought the new macbook and
how he loves to have to lug the stupid dongle adaptor thing everywhere.

------
wnevets
I know kids and grandparents that use tablets all the time but not really
anyone outside of those age groups. Is anyone else finding that to be the
case? I know I personally haven't used the ipad in months if not years at this
point.

~~~
achompas
I'm 31 and I use my iPad Air 2 constantly. Great for reading textbooks/papers,
as a second screen for TV shows, or for streaming (whether at home or on
trips).

It is very much a consumption device, though -- the most I "create" with it
are short emails and blog post drafts.

~~~
joshschreuder
Same here, I use it as a consumption device to stream video and read RSS
mainly. If I need to create something I have a laptop, so I see the iPad as
different use case that I have no intention of merging (such as with the
Surface)

------
wietsehage
Starts making a lot more sense when you try to forsee the future product
lineup:

# Was

iPad Mini 2 (7.9)

iPad Mini 4 (7.9)

iPad Air 2 (9.7)

iPad Pro (9.7)

iPad Pro (12.9)

MacBook Air (13)

MacBook (12)

MacBook Pro (13)

MacBook Pro (15)

# Becomes

iPad (9.7)

iPad Pro (10.5)

iPad Pro (12.9)

MacBook (12)

MacBook Pro (13)

MacBook Pro (15)

~~~
kalleboo
You're missing the iPad Mini 2 in "was", that was discontinued today

~~~
wietsehage
Fixed, thanks!

------
aikorevs
Could not find what's new. Any hints ?

~~~
apricot
"Could not find what's new. Any hints ?"

This sums up Apple's problems better than anything I've seen.

~~~
giarc
It's because their naming conventions have gone out the window.

When it was iPhone 4, 4S, 5, 5S you knew where on the product timeline your
phone was. Now it's iPad Air, Air 2, 9.7 Pro, 9.7, 12.9 Pro, mini 4. It's all
over the place.

~~~
apricot
When Jobs came back to Apple, there was a similar chaos regarding the
Macintosh models. Lots of numbers, letters, and qualifiers, and the purpose of
a new model was seldom clear.

He canceled the majority of them -- the "great extinction" of 1998 is plainly
visible on the image at
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Macintosh_models](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Macintosh_models)
.

------
sgt
I use my iPad 2 every day. I bought it in 2011, so it's basically 6 years old
and battery is still in great quality. I disabled a few animations/transitions
and such, and I run iOS 10. It's not as fast as it used to be (newer iOS not
being optimized for slower iPads) but it's still perfectly usable for reading
books on the Kindle app, some surfing etc. When I am not using it, I tend to
put it in Airplane mode.

~~~
knd775
If it's on iOS 10, it's not an iPad 2.

Also, the iPad 2 I got rid of like 4 years ago was horribly slow and pretty
much useless at that point.

~~~
woof
Correct, the oldest iPad running iOS 10 is the first Retina -aka iPad 4.

I bought mine in 2012, still using it daily.

~~~
NocturnalWaffle
The first retina was actually the 3, which I have. I think the only upgrade in
the 4 though was a switch to lightning. (Maybe some spec boosts)

~~~
gurkendoktor
The iPad 4 is roughly twice as fast as the iPad 3. Won't help it though, I'm
sure Apple will kill 32-bit iOS in autumn.

------
constantlm
Hmmm. Most people I know who own iPads have had them end up as rather
expensive children's toys.

~~~
g051051
Mine's not a children's toy, but it's almost useless now. Once they stop
updating iOS for a device, it's pretty much game over. Many apps have stopped
working due to the developers making mistakes and publishing incompatible
updates. Just about the only app I can still use is NetFlix.

~~~
k-mcgrady
>> developers making mistakes and publishing incompatible updates

If Apple thinks your device is old enough to end support (and Apple's pretty
good at pushing updates for old devices for quite a while) why would devs keep
trying to support you (when the app probably only cost $1-2 and 5 years have
passed).

~~~
sbov
Why are the only two options devs supporting them or their app breaking? I
have software that is close to 20 years old that is both unsupported and still
works.

~~~
k-mcgrady
If you don't update the app and don't update the OS there's no reason it
shouldn't continue working. You update the OS and you run the risk of
deprecated API's getting called.

------
nsxwolf
This might get me back into iPads. I had a 4th gen, and it broke right around
when I transitioned into the Plus sized iPhones. Spending $500 on a new iPad
didn't seem like it was all that necessary considering my phone now did an OK
job replacing it.

But at $329 it's a lot more attractive.

------
zelos
Can anyone see what changed with the iPhone SE? They seem to have updated it
as the store now says "place your order starting 3/24", but all the specs look
identical to me.

~~~
n1000
Apparently Apple doubled the storage.

[https://www.macrumors.com/2017/03/21/apple-iphone-se-
in-32gb...](https://www.macrumors.com/2017/03/21/apple-iphone-se-in-32gb-
and-128gb-capacities/)

------
gtirloni
How can they justify the extra $130 for a cellular chip and antenna?

~~~
zie
you also get GPS, which works regardless of cell connectivity, handy for Maps
:)

~~~
Yhippa
Does Apple Maps support offline map downloads? If so this is a great selling
point.

~~~
lorenzhs
I don't think so, but Google Maps does on both iOS and Android. Quite handy
when abroad.

~~~
4ad
There are way better apps than Google Maps for offline maps.

~~~
lorenzhs
Yes, for that I usually use maps.me which is based on OSM. But most people
don't know about these or find it too cumbersome to have to download the maps
upfront, etc. Google's offline routing is also a lot better and faster.

------
whostolemyhat
The scrolljacking on that page is painful. Maybe it's just the massive images
they're loading that's causing the chug on my machine (Macbook Pro), but it's
really off-putting.

------
ropiku
Looks like they tried as much as possible to make a low-cost full sized iPad.
Would've been a good opportunity for Apple to have P3 wide color displays on
all their lines.

Even more surprised it doesn't have laminated display, possible reason why
it's thinker and heavier than the 9.7" Pro.

------
plg
the news here isn't the new specs but the price point, which is low

apple is trying to expand their market share in the tablet space even more

------
Gentenop
For me the choice is easy: do I need a 7" tablet for every day use, a 9.7"
tablet for reading and watching movies, or a big iPad 12.9" with a Pencil for
graphics?

If the choice is storage space and LTE, I go with what I need or want. If any
of this seems confusing, I recommend stopping by an Apple Store, they can
clarify features and benefits.

------
kalleboo
So by killing the iPad Mini 2, they've raised the iPad entry level from $269
to $329

~~~
snuxoll
You probably shouldn't have been buying the iPad Mini 2 in the first place,
and Apple really shouldn't have been selling it for as long as they did. I'm
all for keeping entry-level devices, but the Mini 2 had underwhelming
performance to begin with.

------
djhworld
I've had my iPad Air since 2013, still going strong, see no reason to upgrade.

------
rebootthesystem
It sure feels like Apple is getting desperate. Not sure what's going on. I
know this is a single data point but just a few days we went to our local
Apple store. It wasn't quite empty but it was nowhere near as busy as it was,
say, a year ago. No buzz.

At my personal level, we have not updated our iPads and iPods for a number of
years. Don't plan to.

I still have a 4S. I have disliked everything Apple has done since then and so
did not upgrade. The device is getting slow over time. This, by itself, is
enough to bother me. It used to work fine. Software updates have made it
sluggish. This is wrong. I know I will have to upgrade at one point yet I am
not looking forward to upgrading to another iPhone. Apple probably has one
shot at convincing people like me with iPhone 8. Hint: I am sick and tired of
"thinner". I could not care less. "Thinner" ceased to be a benefit a very long
time ago. They need to solve real problems. Beyond that, you can only say
"beautiful" so many times before it becomes a joke. Beautiful, beyond a basic
aesthetic, isn't a solution to any real problem. At least none I have.

Past that, we have pulled our last app from the app store. Actually, Apple
required an upgrade and I decided not to invest the time and money to do it.
Why? Because the app store is useless unless you get lucky, throw money at it
or both.

App discoverability is impossible. The other thing that is also impossible is
to create relationships with your users. Business is about relationships and
this walled garden prevents you from creating such relationships. In a way I
equate this to groups on Facebook. FB has made it so that you have to pay to
reach an audience you worked hard to create. You can have a million person
group and only reach a couple thousand or less people per post. If you want to
reach more you have to pay. In other words, you don't "own" your audience the
same way you would through an opt-in email list.

And so, it is goodbye to the App store, it isn't worth our time, money and
effort.

All of the above leads me to conclude that the Apple era is in jeopardy if
they can't come up with enough of a pivot to provide value and get people
exited again.

~~~
greedo
You're complaining about an almost 6 year old smartphone being sluggish with
iOS updates. And then complaining because Apple is requiring you to update
your app. Ironically, the reason that discoverability in the App Store is so
bad is because it's filled with abandonware apps where the devs don't update
to fit with the newer versions of iOS. I think that's what my dad used to call
chutzpah.

~~~
rebootthesystem
And you are failing to recognize that virtually nothing of value has occurred
in the segment during those six years. There's absolutely nothing, zip, nada
of real value between an iPhone 4S and the latest greatest.

Thinner? Please.

Resolution? C'mon.

Faster? OK, but to browse Facebook (which is what most people do with them)
the prior phones were good enough.

Larger? OK, sure.

Battery life? I've never had a problem with this.

Games? OK, sure, we have more CPU power so a greater segment of our society
can waste their lives clicking things on a screen. If you don't have kids you
won't have the experience of attending family events and parties where a bunch
of kids are completely removed from the social gathering while they have their
faces in those screens. Believe me when I tell you it's a terrible thing. We
were making educational apps for kids. At least we tried.

Storage? Meh

Photos? The resolution arms race is a joke. Anyone who knows anything about
imaging knows increasing sensor resolution isn't enough to actually capture
higher resolution images.

Look, most people use these things for photos, SMS, email, GPS and Facebook.
Web browsing is a painful experience, even on an iPad. I have serious doubts
--based on our analytics from various businesses-- that people are using
phones to shop online. When we run AdWords campaigns we EXCLUDE mobile devices
because we have proven to ourselves that they don't convert at all. Desktops
do.

I had great SMS and email going back to Blackberry devices. They also had
rudimentary web browsing (not good).

A stand-alone GPS or an in-vehicle nav system has always been better than
using an iPhone. They are impossible to operate while driving. It's almost
like the integrated printer + scanner + fax machines where none of the three
are any good.

Smart phones were hot many years ago. People were grabbing-up apps and filling
their screens with icons. Go as anyone just how many apps they use and how
many new apps they look for on a monthly basis. Most people I know haven't
installed a new app in years.

The interesting Jedi trick Apple benefited from for many years was the
mindless frenzy to constantly upgrade for no good reason. I know people who
have burned thousands of dollars in upgrades and ended-up with nothing to
really show for it.

There are those who need to chase after shiny things and those who do not.

What's interesting here is that on the computer side of the world nobody would
think twice about using a four to six year old computer. Up until very
recently my main workstation on my desk was a 2009 machine running Windows
Vista 64 bit. Three monitors, lots of memory, half a dozen drives. Ran
Solidworks and other engineering software just fine. We upgraded to newer
hardware and software because some software vendors started to drop Vista
support. Other than that, no issues whatsoever.

Why is it that one can't expect a $600 phone to last six or more years? Apple
has ruined a previously perfectly good iPhone 4S thought every-more-taxing
updates that deliver virtually no additional benefits. In other words, they
are breaking their older devices through updates in order to force people to
upgrade.

As far as our educational apps for kids. There was and there isn't anything
whatsoever wrong with them. Not a thing. In fact, our analytics show that kids
are still using the apps every day all over the world. Imagine if Microsoft
invalidated apps this way, people would go insane. How is it that this is OK
on iPhones? Not sure I see it.

Why do we have to be forced to upgrade apps when users are happy and there are
no problems at all? And, what's the benefit of upgrading anyway? The work to
upgrade a dozen apps is non-trivial. In exchange you get no improvement in
visibility or discoverability. We are back to the same place: You have to burn
more cash than the other guy to become visible. Worst yet, depending on the
niche you get to burn $3.00 to make $2.95. The motivation to devote time,
money and effort to upgrade evaporates very quickly when that happens. It
stops being a business and it becomes a liability.

But, wait, I forgot, all corporations are evil except for Apple.

> App Store is so bad is because it's filled with abandonware apps

No, the App Store is bad because the App Store is bad. It has been a disaster
for years. It only serves Apple. The most fundamental issue is that of
ownership. If you think you own your users and actually have a "business" in
the App Store just wait until Apple decides to remove your apps from the App
Store. An App Store business can be a flash in the pan and you have no way of
knowing if you are going to wake up next Monday and still have a business.
That has nothing whatsoever to do with abandonware.

~~~
greedo
I guess we have to agree to disagree about how smartphones and specifically
the iPhone have advanced over the last 6 years. I think the market disagrees
with you fundamentally, and not because of any Jedi Mind tricks, Reality
Distortion Field or marketing. Today's mobile devices are far better than what
was available 6 years ago. The changes may not fit your needs/desires, but
again, the market disagrees.

The changes you cavalierly dismiss are important; people want lighter, more
powerful mobile devices. They don't care about your desktops. You also throw
in a huge amount of judgement about how people use mobile devices, while
ignoring the good use cases. Mobile is no different than any other technology,
it can be used for good or abused.

An in-vehicle nav system is horrible; the displays are terrible, the maps
rarely updated, and if updates are available, expensive.

The reason people don't upgrade their desktops as frequently is because
desktops are a mature field.

And I think you're way off base in dismissing sales via mobile devices;
perhaps your ad campaigns fail because your customers aren't on mobile? This
article is a bit out of date, but 70% of Amazon's holiday sales were done
through mobile devices. [1]

And your last paragraph is telling. You don't "own" your customers. The App
Store has huge flaws, but in no business do you "own" your customers. Try
selling merchandise on Amazon, or via Walmart. See how much you "own" them
there. See how the business relationship is tilted towards those creating the
storefront. Apple isn't much different. Doesn't mean that they shouldn't
improve, but when Walmart tells Vlasic to create a $1 gallon sized jar of
pickles, Vlasic jumps. If you don't want to update your apps (you didn't say
what Apple expected), then that's tough luck for you.

1.[http://time.com/4162188/amazon-holiday-shopping-
statistics-2...](http://time.com/4162188/amazon-holiday-shopping-
statistics-2015/)

------
goalo
no 3d touch? guess 3d touch is dead then.

~~~
prodikl
its a pro feature, are you a pro?

------
dvcrn
I was kind of hoping for a revamped 12" MacBook but looks like we didn't get
one.

I wonder if this bump is already the usual spring revamp or if something else
will come in April

~~~
leggomylibro
Seriously; everyone is talking about jumping ship from Apple's products, all
doom and gloom, but I'm coming from the opposite direction. I do not like or
use Apple products unless my work strenuously requires me to.

But the dearth of offerings in high-quality laptops under 13.3" is
astonishing. While I personally prefer the 10.1" form factor, I think that
Apple is onto something with pushing a 12" 'daily driver' model for people who
want a power/portability compromise between a Chromebook and a 13-15"
workhorse.

So if Apple came out with something like that which had more than a single
port, I'd probably jump on board with it. If they don't, I think that
Chromebooks may take the market within a few years. Right now you need to do a
bit of tinkering to turn them into fully-fledged computers, but Google's been
adding some really cool features, both official and unofficial.

~~~
dvcrn
I agree. I am still longing for the new Apple MacBooks and love the tech they
are putting out.

I was highly hoping for a 12" revamp so I could finally get one. The first
model was nice but didn't convince me just yet, but what they put into the
recent MacBook pros like the new keyboard and tb3 put my hopes high for a 12"
that could make me pull the trigger.

~~~
anamoulous
Was hoping for the update too. My personal is a 2011 11" and am waiting for
the update to 12" to upgrade.

------
philfrasty
Anyone actually uses an iPad excessively? I owned 2 (non retina then retina
mini) and it has been the least used Apple product over the last 25 years for
me.

\- Looks great in marketing/ads

\- Want to read? Naaah too uncomfortable to hold

\- Want to work? Naaah working on a touch-device is no fun

\- Want to play? Naaah got a gaming-console for that

\- Want some music? Naaah got my iPhone

\- Everything else: iPhone

------
perseusprime11
I think this will pave way for iPad Pro in two sizes 10.5" and 12.9". They
will probably keep iPad at 9.7"

------
grenoire
What does "refreshed" mean in this case?

~~~
annerajb
A diff between the previous generation ipads and this one would be
appreciated!

------
jrnichols
I think it's a decent product at a lower price point. I just got rid of my 1st
gen iPad Mini and was looking at the iPad Air.

This product fits perfectly in my budget and what I wanted. I still wish that
the cellular one wasn't $100 more though.

------
reubenswartz
This is a nice upgrade, but my iPad2 is still going strong for what I need.

(If I could get an iPad with pencil support for $329 or even $429, that might
be a different story. Looks like I'll wait another year.)

------
jlebrech
if they want everyone to use ipads they should make an ide for it.

~~~
simonh
Why wait for Apple? There are dozens of development environments and coding
tools already available, several of which can be used to build App Store Apps
right on your phone or iPad, although you'll need to export them to XCode to
build the app package. Check out Codea, Pythonista and the Kodiak Javascript
and PHP apps for starters.

But yes, official support for development on the device would be very welcome
and given the examples above is completely doable.

~~~
jlebrech
i'm just hoping for a revolutionary new way to develop.

------
roflchoppa
This feels like the release of the "the new iPad" which was after the iPad
two, but housed a Retina display, internals were the same if I recall
correctly.

------
lazarus101
is iPad mini dead?

~~~
simonh
It's a bit weird, only the 128 GB Mini 4 is available at the moment, which
means the Mini is $70 more expensive than a base level iPad 9.7".

~~~
kalleboo
So they killed the Mini 2 which was cheaper than the new entry-level iPad. But
the 128 GB mini 4 costs what the 32 GB mini 4 cost before today, so that value
got quite a bit better.

------
ungzd
Immediately googled "9.7 inch in cm" because it's hard to imagine size in
proprietary units used in only one country. But then encountered "1 lb., 7.5
mm" on the website. That's unit trolling. They should've used megahartleys per
decimal second for LTE speed.

~~~
FroshKiller
There is nothing proprietary about the inch. It's 2.54 cm. We don't have a
secret "reference inch" kept under lock and key that everyone else has to ape
with reverse engineering or anything. And it's used with great success in more
countries than just the U.S.

~~~
Cyph0n
Why not just use centimeters directly like the rest of the world? I've started
to get used to measurements here in the US, except for Fahrenheit. My trick is
to mentally approximate using: 32+2*C.

~~~
js2
I just remember 20C = 68F as an anchor point, then it's easy to jump in 5C/9F
increments.

------
arihant
I'm extremely put off by Apple line up getting frustratingly confusing. The
devil is in the details here. There was a time, where you could simply trust
that an Apple product is built like a tank, that a technology once introduced
(like, say, glass screens, or force touch) will always at least be default in
the upcoming models.

But it is frustrating that Apple started removing fundamental features in a
random fashion, even from flagship products with no intimation of them. Retina
Macbook Pro does not have a glass screen. Users did not realize that until the
staingate issue cropped up. It feels even blowing air on the screen will pull
off coating. In this iPad, they conveniently removed the lamination.

I cannot even imagine Apple doing that back in the day. Imagine a version of
iPhone, let's call it 4E, which does not have 3G.

It feels like I have to do a spec comparison about _everything_ before
deciding which Apple product to buy. Because there is no knowing what they
silently removed.

~~~
tptacek
Wait, what? What's "Staingate"? My screen isn't glass? I'm confused.

I took a (1 generation older) rMBP to the Apple Store a few months back to get
a keyboard replaced. I had a stuck pixel or two (I'd dropped it about 30-40
times) and the guy at the store told me there was a screen coating issue (he
pointed to the black side of the screen) and said I could get a free screen
replacement if I wanted it. Is that "Staingate"?

~~~
arihant
If you have a 2015 rMBP, we have the same model. There is no additional glass
on top of the LCD, which every unibody model always had. One can argue LCD
itself is made of glass substrate, but that's about it and that's not what
Apple meant by glass screen on unibody macs.

Poke your screen lightly and poke screen of any other macbook. You'll see by
distortion on the screen that you directly poked the LCD.

~~~
tptacek
I've had every MBP (or equivalent) Apple has made going back to the Titanium
Powerbook. I was worried after all the noise about the 2016-2017 rMBP (the new
thin one). I bought the non-Touchbar version; it's the best Macbook I've ever
owned. But then, I've said that about basically every Apple laptop I've
bought.

I do not doubt "staingate" is a real thing. What I doubt is that it's a
harbinger of declining quality. There have always been things like this on
every Apple product. The first generation of Intel Macbooks had (frankly:
gross) case discoloration problems so bad an aftermarket sprang up for
products to cover the parts of the case your hands rest on.

------
nkkollaw
Is that all? Is there anything else, like laptops or desktops?

Was there an event?

~~~
k-mcgrady
Take a look at 9to5mac.com. There's quite a few other things (although no PC
stuff I can see).

------
shurcooL
Does anyone use a cellular iPad mini as a phone replacement?

~~~
scott_karana
Apple doesn't give you the "Phone" app on iPads, do they?

~~~
shurcooL
No, but there are VoIP solutions, such as Google Voice, FaceTime audio, Skype,
etc.

------
gchokov
Decent price for the non-Pro model. Might get one.

------
mrfusion
Why would you pay extra for the mini?

------
qball12
No GPS on Wi-Fi Model, Seriously?

------
metafunctor
So what? Is this somehow interesting or noteworthy?

~~~
simonh
Given how important the iOS ecosystem is to Y Combinator companies, if Apple
twitches HN is usually all over it.

------
bestest
How about the Apple Pencil support? Or is that only for iPad Pro?

~~~
vorpalhex
It doesn't appear to have it, which is a shame. That would of been a killer
feature on a tablet this size for a lot of people.

~~~
8draco8
Small iPad Pro is exactly the same size as this new iPad

------
bitmapbrother
Can't innovate anymore, my ass.

~~~
Noctix
What is the innovation here?

~~~
eliben
The OP sounds like sarcasm to me :)

------
mcs_
another device to test...

------
erikig
All hail the Paradox of Choice!

------
wenbert
Who needs this?!

------
awjr
I'd almost hoped they would have released a refreshed Macbook Pro range. I
realise they are unlikely to recognise the joy and immense pleasure working on
a MBP has brought me over the years, with the previous MBP being the pinnacle.

Sadly I see the current MBP as something I will not be buying and will more
than likely move back to a high end windows laptop.

~~~
nkkollaw
You should give the new MBP a try (the version without the touchbar, of
course).

It's the best laptop I've ever used by a long shot.

~~~
sqldba
Most complaints about the newest one are that it's slower, palms keep
activating the larger track pad while typing, and of course the lack of
memory.

Most people who enjoy the touch bar are video designers rather than devs etc
who use a lot of function keys.

~~~
baldfat
Who does serious video editing on a laptop? The difference between editing on
a laptop and a high end desktop is night and day and can't even imagine
working more then a few hours on a laptop for editing.

~~~
derrickdirge
Louis CK edits his show on a MacBook. I don't know if you consider that
serious, but it's a pretty good show.

~~~
baldfat
I imagine for him the portability is required or he just hasn't tried it with
a desktop :)

------
hasperdi
They did not have the courage to ommit the headphone jack this time

------
dav43
Throw in old leftover components from a generation ago and call in NEW!!

Apple, do better than this. This is not how you answer critics, and the
market, who are starting to question your products relevance.

~~~
Shivetya
Well going from iPad to iPad Air back to iPad is a bit disappointing. They
should have pushed to hit the 299 dollar mark for the physiological impact.
Did notice the Mini is a 128g device where the larger iPad is a 32g. The iPad
market is just to fragmented.

The oddity is why is it as thick as the previous generation and where did the
laminated screen go? Is that no longer needed or cost cutting?

~~~
snuxoll
> The oddity is why is it as thick as the previous generation and where did
> the laminated screen go? Is that no longer needed or cost cutting?

Yes, it's cost cutting. They just made a 9.7" tablet available for just over
$300, right in the iPad Mini's price segment.

Honestly, Apple is probably feeling some pressure from the Android market -
lots of vendors have "good enough" tablets available in this price segment
(Amazon, in particular) and I've been seeing the app selection slowly getting
better over the past couple years. By putting the iPad with a full-size retina
display just $55 above the 32GB Fire HD 10 they can likely get a decent chunk
of people looking for a cheaper "big" tablet to justify the cost difference
and go with the Apple device.

> Did notice the Mini is a 128g device where the larger iPad is a 32g. The
> iPad market is just to fragmented.

Either Apple wants to kill the Mini with this change or make it a premium-ish
product where you pay more to get the smaller form factor. Either way, it's
likely to be less popular now that there's a 9.7" device right in its price
point so simplifying the device down to one SKU makes supply chain management
a lot cleaner.

------
dluan
> "WOW!"

> "It's lit."

------
shams93
The most comedic thing about Apple is that my raspberry pi3 with chromium has
support for webmidi and webrtc but not even the iPad pro can do webrtc chat
with mobile Safari. Sure I know they're not fans of the web but it has to be
hurting them at this point when a $35 system has more browser capabilities
than a $1000 device.

~~~
draw_down
They don't sell on feature checklists

