

GNU Emacs 23.2 released - boskom
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.announce/17

======
geocar
The NEWS file <http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/NEWS.23.2> is more helpful.

* CEDET <http://cedet.sourceforge.net/> is now part of emacs(!!!)

* RMAIL now uses mbox

~~~
swah
__js.el is a new major mode for JavaScript files.

I think js2.el (Steve Yegge) was combined with javascript.el to make a new
mode. Might be interesting...

~~~
jrockway
No, it's espresso, not js2. But don't worry, that was the only sane Javascript
mode; js2 is like its own program, completely independent of Emacs. Cool, but
useless for real work.

espresso/js actually works like Emacs, and it doesn't try to treat Javascript
as a dialect of C anymore.

~~~
swah
Useless for real work? I never saw negative comments from js2 users...

I remember it was similar to nXML in having its own parser... do you think
nXML is badly engineered or useless too ?

I wrote a mode inspired by your Stylish for Lua one day. I wish there were
more editors that would let you do that kind of thing...

------
__david__
Mac OS X users can get a binary at <http://emacsformacosx.com/>.

~~~
mark_l_watson
Thanks for that link. I spent some time late last night comparing this new
_pure Emacs_ release with _Aquamacs_. I have been a happy _Aquamacs_ user for
a long time but I will probably switch because of the faster startup times and
cleaner looking interface. When _Aquamacs_ is released with an update, I would
like easier options for simplifying the look and feel (e.g., having to hide
the button bar, etc.)

BTW, really off topic, but does anyone know how to bind the speedbar to the
main frame window instead of being in a separate frame window?

~~~
div
As a tip, if you enjoy quick startup times, you might want to try running
emacs in daemon mode. Just fire up a emacs --daemon instance, and you can then
use emacsclient to instantly connect to it.

~~~
sjs
You can also put (server-start) in your .emacs config.

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Xurinos
_The maximum size of buffers (and the largest fixnum) is doubled. On typical
32bit systems, buffers can now be up to 512MB._

This limited buffer space has long been a criticism of mine and an often-used
point I make when I choose to play the Holy War game between vim and emacs.
512MB is still a weak and arbitrary limitation (vim just uses up your memory),
but this is much better than it was.

~~~
vorador
Can you give me a situation where you would need more space ?

~~~
Xurinos
\- Viewing/modifying a fasta file containing human chromosome data

\- Extremely large log files

Why not use less? Because it's ugly and does not allow me to edit or copy
specific sections out. I like having the full power of a good text editor at
my back.

I have brought this concern up before, and the excuse I heard was, "Well, you
should not have to work with files that large." Seems someone in emacs-land
disagrees; now you can play with files up to 512 MB on a 32-bit system! If
there is a legitimate use case for, oh, 500 MB, we can imagine a use case for
2 GB. The world is moving on; we aren't playing with 64 KB systems any more,
and data keeps growing.

In 2010, our text editors still have hardcoded memory limits? (I understand
emacs's architectural reasoning for it -- and that is a choice.) IIRC, DOS
6.2's Edit could handle large files; it accomplished this with a partial-
loading/paging trick, rather than actually loading the entire file in memory.

So yes, I would like to and have enjoyed opening files of large size.
Admittedly, I have to wait a bit for the I/O to catch up! :) I also have to be
conscious of my memory usage, since I am unaware of any paging mode in vim (or
emacs). I expect, on average, to have the option to open a file of at least 3
GB size -- and that is without taking advantage of swap. Next year, I expect
more.

I know it is not a common desire, so I do not blame anyone for imposing an
arbitrary limit other than to say "nyah nyah; I am free".

~~~
reneky
> I understand emacs's architectural reasoning for it -- and that is a choice.

I think the choice they make is to spend their very limited time on more
useful features. I'm sure many of the core Emacs developers would be very
happy if someone would fix this limitation. It would be a very invasive
change, a fair amount of work.

~~~
jrockway
Any change on 32-bit machines will require special CPU instructions, massive
Lisp slowdowns, or massive integer math slowdowns.

Considering you can't even buy a new 32-bit machine anymore, however, I don't
really see this as a major problem.

~~~
koenigdavidmj
>Considering you can't even buy a new 32-bit machine anymore, however

Netbooks.

~~~
dagw
Most netbooks that have come out in the past 6 month have a 64-bit CPU. Only
the old atom N2xx series is 32bit, and they are rapidly being phased out.

------
sjs
Great summary of clipboard and mouse related features here:
[http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/c1gsi/emacs_232...](http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/c1gsi/emacs_232_released/c0pm5aa)

------
avar
From NEWS.23.2: "The pointer now becomes invisible when typing.Customize
`make-pointer-invisible' to disable this feature."

~~~
silentbicycle
You might also like mouse-avoidance-mode. I've got it set to 'exile.

------
Tycho
Can someone very briefly explain the popularity of emacs and vim among
programmer types? I'm aware that they're unix based text-editors with some
degree of reprogrammability... but what's the big deal?

~~~
snorkel
It's a fair question. Emacs is one of few editors left that makes it possible
to work on multiple files at once without taking your hands off the keyboard.
No fumbling with the mouse. Watch someone who has mastered Emacs edit some
code and you'll understand its appeal.

~~~
Tycho
Hmm, I'm still not quite sure I 'get it.' For instance, your comment, 'no
fumbling with the mouse' confuses me. I've always viewed the mouse as
something that _saves_ time, a shortcut to where you want to go or what you
want to do. Especially on a Mac with non-maximized windows and Exposé mapped
to a mouse button, I've never felt like I was 'fumbling.' I guess I'll ask an
Emacs user to demonstrate next time I meet one.

~~~
silentbicycle
Exposé breaks down when you have a hundred buffers open, though. iswitchb cuts
through that like a bullet through butter.

The mouse is better for some things (especially relative/spatial stuff), and
the keyboard for others, but interfaces that make you switch back and forth
are clearly problematic. Rather than popping up dialog boxes and alerts, Emacs
displays results (such as compiler output) in _another buffer_. If it needs
immediate input, it uses the minibuffer, a one-line buffer at the bottom of
the screen.

In either case, its full text-editing functionality is available. You can run
a directory browser/editor, a web browser, shell, interpreter, e-mail client,
irc client, etc., and it's just another text window.

FWIW, Marco Baringer's SLIME screencast ( <http://common-
lisp.net/project/movies/movies/slime.mov> ) is a pretty good example of
proficient Emacs usage. That convinced me to try Emacs after using vi for
several years.

~~~
Tycho
Ok after watching that link and reading these comments i'm starting to
understand a little. I installed Aquamacs (other emacs clients were too ugly
IMO). I can see that emacs perhaps had a lot of features Visual Studio had
BEFORE vs, and that it's a stable, multi-platform, multi-language environment.
I can see also that some of the text editing/formatting functions would
probably work better than what I currently use Excel for. I can see the
attraction of an uncluttered dashboard/interface too. And extensibility. But
as a beginner I can't yet relate to this 'context-switching' problem and the
appeal of running all sorts of applications inside a text editor.

~~~
silentbicycle
No problem. I'm not trying to convince you one way or the other (heck, I use
vi too), but I figured a video might help.

Also, for you or anyone else reading this thread, <http://emacswiki.org/> is
the place to go for info.

------
glaze
Nice to see that CEDET is now included.

~~~
tree_of_item
I can't seem to get it to work, though. The information on the CEDET website
for setting things up doesn't seem to be valid anymore.

Specifically:

    
    
      (global-ede-mode 1)                 ; Enable the Project management system
      (semantic-load-enable-code-helpers) ; Enable prototype help and smart completion 
      (global-srecode-minor-mode 1)       ; Enable template insertion menu
    

Throwing in (require 'cedet) doesn't seem to work either.

~~~
monk_the_dog
I'm having the same problem. I searched the code for "semantic-load-enable-
code-helpers" and it isn't in any of the .el files in any of the directories
under "lisp". Would be nice to try this out, but I'm too busy to get this
going today (I'd love it if someone else solves this tho :-)

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kprobst
Do they have a C# mode yet, or is that still p[r]etty impossible to do?

~~~
bretthoerner
<http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/CSharpMode>

~~~
bmj
I may not have the latest version, but I find that sometimes this mode has
issues with syntax highlighting, especially around comments.

Not a deal breaker for me, though.

------
knweiss
They are still using MD5 checksums?

~~~
dublinclontarf
What should they be doing?

