
Ask HN: Am I wasting my time pursuing a math degree? - samvelst
I'm currently pursuing a math degree at the University of Washington. Majoring in CS is out of the question due to some poor choices I made during my freshman year.<p>I'm actually fairly interested in mathematics, but not as much as I am in CS. I also constantly hear how many people wish they'd taken more math classes in school.<p>However, I've always preferred learning things on my own. A lot of the people whom I admire are autodidacts themselves.<p>Will having a BS in math allow me to work at companies such as Google, Microsoft, etc? Or am I wasting time (and money) which would be better spent learning CS/math on my own and gaining experience in the industry?
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impendia
Certainly getting pursuing a math degree is not a waste of time compared to
only studying math on your own.

Washington has a _fantastic_ math department, one of the top 30 in the
country. Max Lieblich is an outstanding algebraic geometer and a brilliant
lecturer. They have one of the top combinatorics research groups in the world.
John Lee is a great differential geometer and a well-known and well-regarded
author. William Stein is an expert in number theory and single-handedly
started the SAGE project.

Do you think you could learn math better without these people's help, or with
it?

The _real_ point of a good university class, once you get through the required
freshman stuff, is that it will expose you to a lot of amazing material that
you don't know is out there yet, and simultaneously it introduce you to
professors and students who are excited about this stuff. I anticipate that
any of the professors I mentioned would be very happy to guide some
independent learning/research if you finished some basic classes, showed some
motivation, and proved that you were good.

Good luck!

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dalke
I see many strange statements in your text. The choices of a freshman aren't
permanent. You can always go back an change your degree program; it just may
take longer. A friend of mine in college decided in his 5th year of
engineering (it's a 5 year program there) to switch to physics, so he was in
school for about 8 years. Even if UW says that you cannot change majors (very
unlikely), you could always switch colleges. The question of course is where
your money comes from, but you didn't say that was a big issue, only a
parenthetical one.

Second, you didn't say anything about getting a minor in CS; why not? What's
preventing you from taking CS courses anyway? Even after you fulfill the CS
minor requirements, take a couple of extra. That would also indicate to
prospective employees that you are interested in learning things even when it
isn't required.

Third, I took too much math in college. My math department let people fulfill
either the pure track or the applied track. I did the pure and most of the
applied. I can say that the calculus of variations has never ever been useful
for anything I did later, and what I learned most from Principles of Real
Analysis II was that I wasn't interested in pursuing real analysis as a
career. Oh, and "Groups, Rings, and Vector Spaces" was the only C I got in
college. Taking that class could have been useful if I decided to go into
particle theory in physics grad school. I instead went into biophysics.

In some sense we are all autodidacts, it's just some of us have more direct
help than others. Sure, you could figure out most of this on your own, but it
really helps to get help from others when you are stuck, or to get a sense of
which problems are important, and to learn what's new vs. what's well-known.

As for working at Google, MS, etc - you do realize there are many positions at
those companies, right? A friend of mine dropped out of school as a film
major, did some work helping out with local GIS companies, moved to the Bay
Area to work with a GIS software provider, then GIS at Autodesk, and is now
Lead UI Designer at Microsoft Games. What you major in can help you advance
faster on your career path, but that's only if you know what you want to do.
As you don't, figure out what it is you want to do, and in the meanwhile,
finish off your BS in math/CS minor while talking to people about options.

Hint: "work at Google" is not a good career goal. After all, what are you
going to do after you are hired by Google? Another hint: don't you have an
advisor you can talk with?

~~~
samvelst
My college doesn't offer a minor in CS, and it's quite hard to get into the CS
department with my current GPA. UW has a bit of an issue with this:

[http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/dannywestneat/20169870...](http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/dannywestneat/2016987078_danny11.html)

And I guess you're right. I should figure out what I want to do more
specifically. I had never thought about it more than just "software".

~~~
dalke
Sucks to be you.... or a CS student at UW.

Math has overlaps with CS. There's surely justification for taking extra CS
classes as part of your math degree. Data visualization requires knowing some
computer graphics (and some art theory), automata theory is very math
oriented, numerical methods of course requires programming (but the boring
sorts of programming that CS departments don't usually teach).

If you want to go more into sys admin, then does your local math department
need help with their system maintenance?

Some universities have a track or certificate in "computational science", and
the EE department might also have CS-like courses.

My biggest regret about my undergrad education is that I didn't do a summer
internship. Now is the time to apply for this summer; perhaps you'll find
something interesting.

You have many options.

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manicbovine
I finished a PhD in pure mathematics three years ago and then abandoned
academia because it's stale. My degree opens a lot of doors, enables me to
attack problems that nobody else can fathom, and generally allows me to do
whatever the hell I'd like.

While completing my degree, I devoted all of my spare time to building real
products, coding all night, and learning to sell my ideas.

A math degree is a valuable asset if you love to do math. It'll give you the
opportunity to solve lots of interesting problems, but only if you also make
things that non-mathematical folks can understand. You must learn to
communicate your ideas to anyone that will listen.

Develop proficiency in some platform, build a product, solve a problem, and
learn how to talk about it -- this is all trivially routine, but it goes a
long way when it comes to executives, investors, managers, and their ilk.

Eventually, you'll reach a point where you'll need to focus exclusively on
mathematics... that's fine and everyone will understand. But before then, be
sure to do something practical.

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codeonfire
Companies such as Google and Microsoft will narrowly focus on algorithms and
data structures, so if you take three or four classes in these areas, actually
learn the material, and can code very, very well, you'll have no problem with
a math degree. Just do an internship.

If you don't finish your degree someone will eventually hold it over your head
and ruin your day (go work somewhere else if you want a raise, wait... you
can't!) When you get those 'why do I need a degree' feelings remember that it
is not to get a job, it is to get a better job. For lack of better expression,
certain people in industry will try to make you their bitch. You need the
ability to walk away.

As far as learning, you are not paying to learn things, you are paying to be
tested on things for which you receive a stamp of approval.

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pmiller2
As a holder of two math degrees, I have exactly one thing to say to you: if
you want to get a job when you are done, do an internship or three. If you get
a couple of decent internships, demonstrating your CS skills becomes
irrelevant, because you'll have already done it on the job.

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naithemilkman
You will never be wasting your time if you're doing something you enjoy.

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jdietrich
It is far easier to informally demonstrate your CS skills than to informally
demonstrate your math skills.

