
Peter Thiel's Heroic Political Fantasies - listentojohan
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/22/magazine/peter-thiels-heroic-political-fantasies.html
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return0
I get it, the author was very irritated that Thiel spoke for trump, so he
wrote a really bad article full of personal attacks, misinformation,
belittling comparisons etc. Why did the NYtimes publish this garbage ?

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forgetsusername
> _he wrote a really bad article full of personal attacks, misinformation,
> belittling comparisons_

Calm your sensibilities, it's nothing of the sort. It's an op-ed piece that
has a negative bias against Thiel (who has also said dumb things). Why does
this site criticize any piece that speculates are conveys opinion?

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tanderson92
I'm generally one who ignores bias in the Opinion section of the paper, but
one thing that made an impression on me was that this was published in the
"Magazine", not the Opinion section. It reads more like a hit piece against
someone for having the "wrong" politics than a thoughtful essay, IMO. (This,
coming from someone who dislikes Thiel, Trump, and the GOP)

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firasd
I think the narrative in the article may be a bit of a stretch (Thiel is not
against creating restaurants because he thinks they are worthless, he just
says they aren't profitable), but I think the conclusion is pretty much
correct: the question that Thiel's arguments raise revolve around the question
of "What Matters?"

Personally when I listen to talks by Thiel or Musk I almost wonder, do I
really need to drop everything and go build rockets? But to be honest, I find
working on digital products pretty fulfilling. I think it's a real craft. The
deeper question of fulfilment then goes to what you're building with that
craft (I've found marketing campaigns are less fulfilling than user-facing
products, for example), and then the even-deeper question goes to what you
want to do with your life, and then there's the yet-deeper question of how you
want to interact with, and have your life experienced by, other people. At
that point the question of whether you're going from Zero-to-One (what Thiel
calls technology) or One-to-Many (what he calls globalization) starts to
recede in importance when making personal choices.

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zump
> Personally when I listen to talks by Thiel or Musk I almost wonder, do I
> really need to drop everything and go build rockets?

You need to drop everything and make them rich.

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adwn
That is _really_ not Musk's message, not even implied.

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dhoe
Trying to quote Nietzsche in German is not an advisable strategy if you don't
know German, dear hacks everywhere ("das Mann" does not exist).

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pervycreeper
>"das Mann"

that's a bit of jargon from a different German philosopher (Heidegger). IMO,
that sentence is trying to smear Theil as a Nazi, since Heidegger was one and
some of Nietzsche's concepts were reappropriated by them.

~~~
dhoe
I've thought about that too, but if it was referencing Heidegger it should be
"das Man"
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heideggerian_terminology#.27Th...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heideggerian_terminology#.27The_One.27_.2F_.27the_They.27)),
not "das Mann".

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auganov
This very non-charitable reading of Zero to One makes it a hit piece. The
reasoning is plausible and it's well written. But anyone that's in tech, has
followed Peter and read the book knows it was never meant as a general
philosophy/political book. Though admittedly it has gotten so popular that a
lot of people read it as such so perhaps there was no ill intention in the
interpretation (tho the bathroom comment got interpreted rather maliciously).

Personally I think Peter talking at the RNC and [hopefully for me] exerting
some kind of influence on Trump is the best thing to happen. I still see Trump
as a blank slate. With his presidency [IMO] inevitable I think it's super
important that people like Peter start steering him in the right direction.

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roymurdock
Trump isn't a blank slate, he's first and foremost a self-serving businessman.
Sure, he says outrageous things that people want to hear with no intention of
ever doing them, but that doesn't make him a blank slate. It makes him a
sycophantic liar.

Don't delude yourself that he's neutral. He has a clear agenda of promoting
racism, violence, and religious intolerance because that's what his future
Trump Network customer base wants to hear. If he is elected he'll most likely
resign on day 2 because he can make much more money licensing his brand than
actually having to deal with complex problems that can't be solved by simply
building a wall, deporting all muslims, etc. for 4 years.

~~~
drivingmenuts
Put another way:

1\. Get elected. 2\. Resign in favor of Pence. 3\. Get a general pardon in the
Federal investigations against him. 4\. Profit.

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aorth
I identify with "liberal" politics and parts of Thiel's RNC speech resonated
with me, but I'm wondering if those parts were lost on the RNC's target
demographic. For example: he says we should have gone to Mars instead of
starting a war in Iraq (paraphrasing). I feel like the Republican demographic
wouldn't care about going to Mars, and not to mention a bunch of people got
rich off the war (at tax payer's expense of course).

Then there's the part where he said the party shouldn't focus on fake "culture
wars" like which bathrooms transgender people use. How were those parts
received by the RNC's target audience?

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WalterSear
I took him to be somehow blaming the democrats for that.

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nnq
Don't follow american politics that much, but hats off to Peter Thiel for
having the courage to support Trump!

Even if a person seems horrible as a human being, if some of his/her ideas
make sense and align with your ideas, than _it 's OK to support them._ I
happen to like Trump because he happens to think that America's problems are
internal and should be solved internally - no need to make any issue into a
"global issue" and solve it through an international trade agreement or
through a war _that affects everyone in the world_ even if it's not their f
problem!

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Xylakant
> Even if a person seems horrible as a human being, if some of his/her ideas
> make sense and align with your ideas, than it's OK to support them.

No, it's not. Not when that person has other horrific ideas that should not be
supported by any sensible human being. Not if that person is a pathological
liar that jumps from one idea to the contrary on a whims notice. Not if that
person uses racism and violence as a platform. Not if that person openly calls
for committing war crimes and invading other countries. It's - and I'm
deliberately choosing the godwin route here - akin to saying "It was ok to
support Hitler because I support the construction of the Autobahn."

Citations can be found en masse here:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughTrumpSpam/comments/4teoxl/](https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughTrumpSpam/comments/4teoxl/)

~~~
return0
I 'm pretty convinced that most people people do not support trump for what he
claims he will do. He seems so unpredictable that nobody can believe what he
says. What seems to resonate more is his confidence, and his risk-taking
ability vs the very predictable, but very unlikeable Hillary. No amount of
quote-listing or fact-checking is going to change their minds.

~~~
Xylakant
I agree that there is a large chunk of Trump supporters that will not be
swayed by fact-checking. However that's still a vastly important thing to do
because they goal is not to sway those that are unreachable already but rather
to sway the chunk that still can be reached.

On a larger picture: I regard the fact that a large chunk of people by now
seem oblivious to facts and unreachable for civilized dialogue as the
threatening streak in the last major votes, see brexit, see the rise of the
AFD in germany. The crucial question for the next coming years will in my
opinion be how we can enter a reasonable discourse with people that see every
statement as a bipartisan issue that must be decided on principle, regard all
measured statements as lies and political correctness and are unwilling to
compromise on anything. We live in interesting times indeed.

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ZoF
This is just a gutter hit-piece on Peter Thiel because he isn't falling in
line like the rest of SV.

There is zero actual substance here, the author takes a single anecdote from
his book, interprets it to mean that Thiel thinks running a small business is
not worthwhile and then proceeds to end with this:

\-----------------------------------------

Silicon Valley, too, is of two minds. There are those who recognize that their
uniquely innovative culture is a precipitate of a lot of expensive long-term
institutional investment on the part of governments, universities and
corporations, and that to function in a democracy you need to worry about
stuff you personally don’t think is important. And there are those who believe
only in charisma and prowess, the blinding insight and iron will that get you
from zero to one.

\-----------------------------------------

Silicon Valley isn't of two minds, it is of many; and no, the uniquely
innovative culture isn't the sole result of expensive long-term institutional
investment on the part of governments.

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forgetsusername
> _no, the uniquely innovative culture isn 't the sole result of expensive
> long-term institutional investment on the part of governments_

What's the reason then? Are the people just better and smarter there?

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icebraining
I'd say a few smarter/innovative individuals can imprint a culture to a place
that is self-sustaining.

For example, William Shockley's transistor company brought a bunch of smart
PhDs to what was at the time a rural area (Mountain View). A few of these PhDs
- called the "traitorous eight" \- left to work on their own. Over 65
companies in the area over the next 20 years came from there, including Intel
and AMD. You know why William Shockley chose SV? Because his mother lived in
Palo Alto.

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jpstory
Somewhat related: Any ideas why NYT blocks my ability to "Add to Read it
Later" on Safari for OS X? What motivations are there to do that (if they are
doing it on purpose)?

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spyspy
Works fine for me.

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ZoF
It's funny that the left attacks Trump for 'fear-mongering' when their anti-
Trump platform is 'He's literally Hitler!'

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eli_gottlieb
Facts are facts. If Trump talks like Mussolini, perhaps deliberately, then he
deserves the comparison.

Sure, all the fascism in his speeches and platform _could_ be some grand act
just to rile people up, but he's giving no reliable indication that the
terrifying things he says aren't what he really believes.

But I am, of course, biased. As a Jew, I can't stomach anyone who brings white
supremacism and open antisemitism into the mainstream. It's just bad for me,
you know?

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jacquesm
And not just bad for you. Trump will bring misery to a large chunk of the
world if he gets to act on just a small percentage of what he has to date said
he will do.

~~~
ZoF
Yes Donald Drumpf is evil!

It's time we had a woman in office! Hillary has done nothing wrong!

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forgottenacc56
Darth Thiel is one of the most frightening characters on the modern scene....
a man with virtually infinite resources and proven willingness to covertly
carry out long term secret revenge plots against those he feels deserve it.

Princess Leia and Nick Denton would have had much in common.

