
Gumroad Gets $1.1 Million To Turn Any Link Into A Payment System - noahyeh
http://techcrunch.com/2012/02/08/gumroad-gets-1-1-million-from-chris-sacca-max-levchin-and-others-to-turn-any-link-into-a-payment-system/
======
sahillavingia
It all started here on Hacker News:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2406614>

So... thanks! :)

~~~
HardyLeung
Congratulations! I remember it very well when I saw your post on HN. At that
time I thought this is such a simple problem and simple solution that is ...
hmm... bound to be successful! Just like pen.io which was just as simple, but
if you think about it, why does it have to be difficult? I'll sure look
forward to using your service.

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csmeder
I'm confused. Once some one buys the link do they get the real url? Could this
person share this real url on Facebook?

I understand that with a traditional online store, a customer could upload the
downloaded file as a torrent and share it on Facebook, however, the ease of
sharing a link compared to creating a torrent is pretty large.

I guess the idea is to use this for content that you never really expected to
make much money from, so if it is shared you are okay with that.

I almost feel like the service should have a pay what you want option. Some
people may use the stolen free link if the only pay option is $10 but would be
willing to pay $5 if it was an option.

~~~
citricsquid
I think Sahil addressed this elsewhere before, but my own assumption is that
if someone is willing to hand over money for something they understand that
creators deserve to be paid for their work and they won't then go ahead and
distribute it at no cost. The latter shouldn't be a concern anyway, even if
the link was unsharable someone could still download and re-upload elsewhere.

The technical solution I assume (which actually goes against what appears to
be the idea of Gumroad -- simple for everyone) would be a Paypal IPN type
system.

You can upload directly to Gumroad and that has no issue of unauthorised
sharing, but if you use the pay wall for a link type then you do risk it.

~~~
mikeknoop
Gumroad could proxy the download (what else would people be selling?) but I
suppose that implies large bandwidth costs.

~~~
citricsquid
They already offer that option (to upload directly to them) it's an option
alongside using a link. Even if someone uses the upload link the problem of
buying -> downloading -> uploading elsewhere exists, just like it exists on
itunes and any other service, so really it's a none issue...

------
HardyLeung
Two suggestions:

(1) Provide a trial mode where I can sell stuff (like real) for $0, so I can
validate the whole experience.

(2) Provide an API where I can create new sellable objects dynamically and
programmatically.

~~~
wturner
I'm creating a fake account right now for test purposes and apparently you can
sell stuff for $0. You can easily test it without actually doing anything
"real".

As a seller my only issue is the sales link has a Gumroad logo that is kind of
big and would be better listed as "powered by Gumroad" instead of just Gumroad
as not to confuse users, but I have a feeling that will be a premium feature
:)

The rest of the product is extremely simple to use.

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sakopov
I'll be honest here. I worked on the same exact idea and ended up abandoning
it when i discovered your app on techcrunch a few months back. Couldn't have
done it better! Great job! I'm glad it's moving forward! My only question is
how do you plan to deal with potential copyright infringements. This almost
seems inevitable to me.

~~~
fatbat
I emailed that question and a few others (ie- handling disconnections). Shall
update when I get a reply (if not already). :)

~~~
fatbat
The reply. Not exactly the answers I expected...

[Q: How do you stop a download link from being shared?] A: We don't. We bet on
the god will of mankind.

[Q: Are links screened for copyrights, fakes, etc?] A: No. Gumroad isn't a
marketplace so we don't need to do this as much as others do.

[Q: How are disconnected downloads handled?] A: Working on improving this. We
do OK.

~~~
sakopov
It's pretty scary considering what just happened to Megaupload. I suppose one
could implement some sort of community-driven screening process for sellers.

Thanks for posting this!

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cgart
I am happy for sahillavingia that he get the investment, however isn't it
little bit funny that in the techcrunch article most of the time they tell how
good his designer skills are :) ? (no doubt, they are)

I see this not for the first time, that a really simple and straight forward
project get much attention just because of nice design. Such kind of projects
is easly copycated, don't they? So, that means that whenever you have a nice
idea but your design skills sucks, then don't publish it before you haven't
polished it, otherwise it will be copycated with much nicer look'n'feel and
you sucked. Is this is not a contradiction on its own (that we were told to
publish as eary as possible) ?

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snagage
Awesome idea. Not only does it open new markets that were previously too
difficult to monetise, but also give sellers finer control over what they
sell. eg. Users can buy one broker report without having to sign up with the
stockbroker, read one article without having to sign up for a whole
subscription.

Not sure this is in the works or not: affiliate codes will absolutely rock on
this platform.

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lukeholder
When you first announced gumroad I had already built something similar, can I
ask if you looked for investment or they came to you?

My system allows the users to use their own stripe account keys, so we dont
take a % or 30c.

~~~
blissofbeing
Is this something that is publicly online yet?

~~~
consultutah
Yep. <http://jungleblaze.com>

~~~
citricsquid
FYI your Facebook login doesn't work, displays Facebook error message when
clicking it and also Twitter login redirects back to homepage, on the second
click it logs me in.

~~~
consultutah
FB Fixed - thanks for bringing it to my attention. Looking into Twitter now

------
pbreit
The original "Show HN" submission:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2406614>

Nice job turning a weekend project into $1.1m in investments! It seems like
the payments industry will support new approaches into perpetuity.

------
dvdhsu
Wow. I remember when this first got started on HN a while back. It's amazing
to see where you guys are now.

Congratulations Sahil!

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jasonshen
Sahil is very sharp and a great designer. What's more amazing is how well he
understands the underlying gears that drive Silicon Valley. Congrats and
expecting big things.

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freshfey
I love how Sahil learnt all the stuff he built into Gumroad along the way,
through other projects. Beautiful design: Dayta, Pinterest and turntable.fm.
Short links & payments: Crate. He started small, kept on learning and now the
product looks amazing. Congratulations and all the best!

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ph0rque
From the article:

'Gumroad monetizes by taking a 5% cut and 30 cents out of every transaction'

From the HN launch thread:

'I think something like "5%, but at least $0.30" would make more sense'

Good on ya for listening to your potential users :)

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psychotik
Hey you should get someone like Louis CK to use this to sell his next show.
Win-Win for all!

------
thedangler
How did you manage to automate transferring money to peoples bank accounts all
over the world? I'm very interested in how you managed to solve this.

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pinaceae
As an European, I seem to have a different stance on the morality of
customers.

So your first user buys the link. Say to a mp3 or a pdf. Now has the link in
plain text.

What's stopping the user from posting that very link all over twitter,
facebook, etc? "omg check out kanye's new single!1!!"

Seriously at a loss on how this will work in real life, with real customers.

~~~
danabramov
There is nothing stopping user from posting the file on megaupload (oops)
another file sharing service as well.

Any protection, including DRM, link obfuscation or IP filtering, makes user's
life harder. If they want to post it, they will post it. But once you started
the war with a customer by putting those little obstacles in their way, you
can't stop it.

Imagine a different scenario, where it's easy not to pay but you only have to
deal with your conscience.

Imagine _why posting a new chapter of the Poignant Guide. Randall Munroe
releasing a charity comic. Stephey Fry kickstarting a funny ebook
([http://unbound.co.uk/books/how-to-have-an-almost-perfect-
mar...](http://unbound.co.uk/books/how-to-have-an-almost-perfect-marriage)).
Radiohead releasing a new album.

There are million cases when you can pirate easily but it's more fun to pay.
Because you respect the artist or want to support the cause. I guess this is
exactly the use case for Gumroad that I see.

~~~
pinaceae
i understand your ethical argument, but i still fail to see the practical
usefulness.

easy beats free. piracy/copyright infringement means free.

you want to get people pay for something - you can't do this by optimizing the
payment method. who really gives a crap about that outside of the techies who
build that stuff?

example: first one to make tv episodes _globally_ simultaneously available,
with local ads embedded or whatever will win over piracy. just look at the
most popular torrents on pirate bay, etc - how i met your mother, etc.

itunes (as an example, same goes for netflix, hulu, amazon,...) is broken in
that regards. non-us credit card and/or IP address? you're _fucked_. welcome
to being a third-rate customer. well, fuck you then, pirate bay it is. movies,
series, even apps are being restricted. even though the fucking majority of
people (consumer!!) live outside the US.

------
aaronblohowiak
What are you going to spend the money on?

------
mahmoudimus
Congratulations! I'm looking forward to seeing how this turns out. Well done
sir :)

------
kleiba
Hi, Sahil, I'm getting a small glitch in the right-hand side menu on the FAQ
page:

<http://imgur.com/kjh5n>

That's in Firefox 10 on Ubuntu 11.04

------
briancary
Wow...nice work Sahil! Looking forward to seeing more great stuff from you. We
should plan another Saturday brunch.

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jamesbritt
Why won't existing URL-shortener companies now add an option for a toll? They
already have name exposure.

------
phreanix
Aaand I think we (and techcrunch coverage) just killed your site, hehe. Really
slow right now.

------
newman314
Is it just me having a hard time reaching the site?

------
wiggum
5% cut? No way. Dwolla <https://www.dwolla.com/> takes $0.25 per transaction
and NOTHING for amounts less than $10.00

~~~
dangrossman
Dwolla doesn't let you take credit cards. People buy things online with credit
cards.

It's also inappropriate for the flow this app wants. You click a link, enter
your CC#, get your content. Takes 5 seconds.

With Dwolla: click a link, sent to Dwolla, create a username, password and
PIN, add an address, wait to receive a phone call or SMS, click a link in a
verification mail, add your bank account, wait 2-3 days to verify your bank
account, go back to the site and finish your payment...

~~~
wiggum
You only need to that the first time. Once you have it set up it's just as
fast and way cheaper for both merchants and buyers. There are plenty of
payment services that take a percentage cut, Dwolla is the only one that
doesn't.

~~~
dangrossman
That's not true. There are lots of flat rate ACH payment processing companies,
just like Dwolla. Your utility companies probably use them, for example.
Almost any company that lets you pay your bill by providing your bank account
details is using one.

Being paid by ACH through PayPal is free and has been free for the past 13
years. PayPal only charges once you upgrade to a Premiere or Businesss
account, which is what allows an account to accept credit card payments. It
also lets you pay someone having to deposit money in advance like Dwolla --
PayPal calls these payments eChecks. The merchant is notified immediately
about the payment then again when the transfer clears.

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aymeric
Why is GumRoad getting more buzz than <http://www.kout.me/>? They seem to be
very similar products.

Is Sahil very well networked?

~~~
thesethings
Kout doesn't really seem to be launched (you can only sign up for list).
Whereas Gumroad lets you sign-up right now.

Gumroad's design is also a bit more inviting.

I hadn't heard of either of them until today, but one is definitely in a place
where I would share the link with buddies, and the other I wouldn't.

You ask about "buzz" and I definitely think launching a working product is
more newsworthy than a beta sign-up page. That said, Kout seems interesting as
an idea.

------
jasontan
most importantly, Sahil went to Singapore American School.

