
Samsung’s Foldable Phone Is the $1,980 Galaxy Fold - Tomte
https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/20/18231249/samsung-galaxy-fold-folding-phone-features-screen-photos-size-announcement
======
jashephe
Tangentially, it's interesting to see how Samsung's reveal video (at the top
of the article) [1] is so uncannily similar to what Microsoft came up with a
few years ago for the Surface Studio [2], right down to the music selection.
Something about technology killing creativity, perhaps? /s

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r_UgNcJtzQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r_UgNcJtzQ)

[2]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifZXp2geVKI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifZXp2geVKI)
(apologies that this isn't a link to an official source; Microsoft doesn't
seem to have it online anymore)

~~~
merb
actually it's more like the first iphone reveal.

~~~
nvr219
Simply magical.

------
nickelcitymario
While I won't be an early adopter for this, I think the concept is great.

The things I'll be watching out for if this takes off:

1) How does the screen holdup in daily use? Does the Infinity Flex Display get
work out or glitchy at the hinge after 10,000 folds?

2) Will the device get thinner? This is currently the size of two phones
stacked on top of each other. I can't imagine carrying that in my pocket long-
term.

3) What's it like to actually use? Is it comfortable to hold when fully
opened?

Other than that, I could see this being pretty awesome, personally.

~~~
Niksko
If IKEA can build a machine that repeatedly flexes their chairs until failure,
I'm forced to believe that Samsung can build a machine that repeatedly flexes
their screen. Surely that's not going to be the failure mode, it's more likely
to be grit in the mechanism or fragility after dropping.

~~~
TheOtherHobbes
You would have expected Apple to test its keyboard designs in the same way -
we know how that turned out.

Ironically - if that's the word - I think a larger laptop format device with a
tactile folding hinged screen would be more interesting than this enormo-
phone.

This device will probably sell moderately in the nouveau Asian markets, but I
doubt it's going to be a storming success, or the template for the next
generation of devices.

~~~
NowThenGoodBad
Fun story for you on that:

I applied numerous time for their Failure Analysis Engineer, Reliability
Engineer, and other similar positions but repeatedly got rejected (or simply
ignored by their ATS, I don’t play that keyword game very well).

My professional career in Materials Science and Materials Engineering has had
a large focus on reliability testing and failure analysis. In parallel with
inventing new technologies or pioneering research projects I have had to
rigorously test and verify the robustness of the products. To put it plainly:
the position descriptions were me. I had a bit more experience and
qualifications but not so much that I was “over qualified”.

When I see some of the things that get through their engineers, I scratch my
head and wonder what’s going on internally. Is there a lack of empowerment?
Are those positions more or less for show and, while filled with legitimate
engineers, not really leveraged as they should be?

At any of the places I’ve worked stuff that Apple has let slip through would
have never flown.

The iPhone 5S compass/accelerometer issue (those of you who had it know, it
was a bummer) and solving that by replacing the phone with another faulty one?
The 2010-MacBook Pro discrete and integrated GPU switching failure? Right now
I’m sitting in front of a 2017 MBP that has been used as a stationary desktop
and babied with a keyboard cover and much TLC that has strange screen
artifacts that seem to indicate that it was pinched or there’s adhesive in
those regions while the rest of the screen is trying to pull away? Whatever it
is has been there since I got it and I didn’t realize it wasn’t suppose to be
that way until recently.

I stopped applying to Apple because nothing was coming of it and the thought
of working for a company that claims to be detail oriented but let’s that
stuff slip through was enough to put me off.

What’s inspiring though is that it gives their competitors and easy way to
jump on the market. I’ve seen plenty new students choose Surface Books or
Pro’s over Apple computers or tablets.

There’s a point where companies forget to continue earning their success.

I expect the foldable phone technologies have gone through considerable cyclic
testing. That doesn’t mean that some manufactured ones won’t be flawed and
that also doesn’t mean that people won’t be doing normal consumer things that
cause failure sooner, but it’s likely these won’t be too bad.

~~~
sosborn
> I’m sitting in front of a 2017 MBP that has been used as a stationary
> desktop and babied with a keyboard cover and much TLC that has strange
> screen artifacts that seem to indicate that it was pinched

[https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203671](https://support.apple.com/en-
us/HT203671)

~~~
snazz
That’s ironic. A product intended to solve one major fault in the laptop
caused another one.

------
splonk
Honestly, if this is even vaguely usable, it's going to replace my phone and
my tablet, simply by reducing the screen size for both while still having some
modern hardware behind it. I find 5" phones to be just slightly too large to
comfortably use one-handed (and forget about the larger flagship phones that
come out these days). I at least have some faith that I'll be able to reach
across the 4.6" screen, although who knows how annoying the large vertical
bezels will be.

The tablet side is actually more exciting to me, completely independent of the
folding feature. I still don't have a good replacement for a Nexus 7, and this
looks like the first tablet that's come out since 2013 that's both close to it
in size and on par or better in terms of hardware. The N7 was basically the
perfect form factor for my hands, and since I finally gave up on it I've been
using an 8.4" tablet that's just narrow enough to hold in one hand but more
than uncomfortable enough that I still complain about it years later. Even if
the Fold is unusable as a phone, I might spring for one anyway as a pure
tablet replacement. If it's also comfortable enough to carry and use as a
phone, that's just gravy.

~~~
VuWall-Matt
Speaking as someone who's never owned a tablet, but always buys iPhone+ sized
phones (6+,7+), I'm exited for this (and maybe Apple's iteration of this?) in
the coming years. I am the type to even hate turning my phone sideways
(because it's always on rotation lock) so being able to physically open a
thing would probably reduce the barrier to entry of enjoying of my phone /
all-in-one device.

Honestly, as a first publicly available iteration it's pretty sleek. I'm
excited for the future all over again as this becomes mainstream.

------
arzeth
These Samsung's and Xiaomi's foldable phones don't excite me as much as Nokia
Morph.

On 2008-02-25, Nokia showed a _concept_ phone Nokia Morph [1]. I have just
watched the video about it [2] again and I am still as excited about it as I
was 11 years ago.

> The phone's theoretical feature list would include the ability to bend into
> numerous shapes, so it can be worn around the wrist or held up to the face;
> transparent electronics, which would allow the device to be see-through yet
> functional; self-cleaning surfaces that can absorb solar energy to recharge
> the phone's battery; and a wide range of fully integrated sensors. [...] The
> manufacturer believed that some of the device's imagined features could
> appear in high-end devices by 2015.

So, I am waiting for something like Nokia Morph but also with a screen that
can take the form of a standard physical keyboard and give me the same tactile
feel.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_Morph](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_Morph)

[2] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX-
gTobCJHs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX-gTobCJHs)

------
coryfklein
More like a foldable tablet that can make phone calls.

What I like is it eliminates one device you may be carrying around. If you
previously had a $900 phone and a $1100 tablet, you could essentially have
both for the same price and fit them in your pocket.

~~~
manmal
I find it hard to believe that this ~7“ device with a strange aspect ratio and
without a foldable keyboard can replace a $1100 tablet like a Surface Pro or a
12.9“ iPad Pro.

~~~
bunderbunder
No, probably not, but it could quite plausibly replace an iPad Mini. I could
see even replacing a midsize tablet, for someone for whom that amount of bulk
elimination merits a compromise.

~~~
whoopdedo
At around 4x the price? It's not replacing anything.

~~~
adventured
Foldable devices like this won't remain $2,000. It's not replacing anything
today. Tomorrow it will when you can buy good devices that are comparable for
$600 or $700 and Samsung is forced to compete on price.

------
franciscojgo
That just seems gimmicky at best IMO. No ecosystem. I expect it will sell for
2-3 years and then die off and have them lose money on it. What type of niche
market actually needs a phone that can display 3 apps at once and fold down to
a brick sized phone?

It's good that companies take these leaps of fate but they sort of seem
reaching.

Why not wait and keep pushing the tech until it's worth releasing a beautiful
product that can capture actual market share?

~~~
jblow
I want a phone that I can read books on, and spend quality time with, rather
than reading crappy stuff like Twitter. I fully expect to buy a foldable (not
sure which one) and would easily pay $2500+ for it.

(It's not like I can buy laptops any more, since those are all garbage even
when I pay $4000 for a supposedly high-end system, so I certainly have spare
device money laying around!)

~~~
goatlover
Kindles are cheap and light, if digital reading is your goal.

~~~
djhworld
I often read PDF versions of books (especially technical books) or PDFs of
academic papers etc

I've never been able to view these properly on a kindle. Well, last time I
tried anyway, is it better now?

~~~
Shorel
Kobo Aura One seems to be the right size for your use case.

~~~
photojosh
Yep, I'm currently reading my EPUBs and PDFs on an ancient iPad 3. I
researched a newer solution and settled on a Kobo Aura One (or perhaps the
Forma which came out only recently) running the open-source KOReader [0],
which is apparently much better than the built-in app on the Kobos. But I'm
too cheap to upgrade while the iPad still works.

[0] [http://koreader.rocks](http://koreader.rocks)

------
ksec
Both the Samsung S10 Series and the Fold are technical Marvel. Even if you are
an Apple user one should appreciate how Samsung's technology are improving.
The OLED is 1200 nit, while the reporting numbers are always off to actual
testing results, it is still an amazing achievement to have 1000+ nit.

Purely from a Hardware Perspective, this is the best you can buy with no Trade
oFfs. Apart from a slightly slower Single Core Pref Compared to Apple, the
NAND, the RAM, The Display, 5G, WiFi 6, Battery, UnderScreen SuperSonic Finger
Print, better Bezel less design, Best Camera Module on the front and the back.
This is Samsung going all out.

Not sure how the market will react to it, but I sure hope Apple takes notes.
You cant rely on iOS and Software forever.

~~~
tinus_hn
My iPhone has a screen and I’m fine with it. And it isn’t even the top model!
I don’t need a solarium display.

Apple will release phones with foldable displays when they invent a real use
case for it. Apple wouldn’t be able to rely on iOS if they released shitty
phones. But they don’t.

------
justfor1comment
Really impressed that Samsung has matured the display manufacturing process so
much that they can launch a mass market foldable screen. Also, surprised to
hear the speaker say 7nm processor in the Fold. I didn't know the technology
to fabricate 7nm chips existed.

~~~
zzen
7nm has been around for a while. All 2018 iPhones are using A12 which is
manufactured using 7nm.

~~~
empyrical
AMD's next Ryzen CPUs will be 7nm as well. And their Radeon VII uses 7nm Vega
chips

------
bradenb
This looks a lot nicer than I thought it would. I even kind of like that in
phone mode it's a slim bar like mid 2000s phones. As an avid and long-time
iPhone user I look forward to seeing how this thing performs in the wild.

------
jonplackett
Considering a 512gb iPhone XS Max is $1450 I guess it's hard to call it any
more overpriced than an iPhone. But both are too over-priced for me.

~~~
bradenb
$1500 is a LOT for a phone, but $2000 is a whopping $500 more than that. It's
not exactly a "little" more than the top iPhone model.

------
salimmadjd
Slightly OT: IMHO, I think Samsung made a huge mistake announcing the Fold
along with their other products.

1 - This is a new product category and I think it deserves its own stage.

2 - Fold is overshadowing everything else Samsung announced. Galaxy, etc. are
their biggest sellers but they lost the main attention to the Fold. Basically
Fold's hype will cannibalize market attention of their new announcement that
will make most of their revenue.

~~~
dstaley
The Fold is $2,000, so I highly doubt it'll cannibalize the sales of the S10.

~~~
SomeHacker44
By definition a more expensive item cannot cannibalize sales of a less
expensive one, at least when I learned it in business school. :)

------
pjc50
This is a tiny glorious technological miracle, and it's also absurdly
expensive.

------
jolmg
I wonder how many times you can fold the display before it makes a crease or
splits in 2. Hasn't that been a long-standing problem with flexible displays?
You can bend them but you can't fold them? I imagine that like paper, you can
only fold it so many times before the same thing happens.

~~~
colordrops
It seems to me that the fold is more of a tight bend rather than a crease,
with the hinge width keeping it from fully folding.

I'm still skeptical of the screen surviving long-term wear too, but I'd
imagine they've tested this with countless repetitions with some robot.

------
z2
It's good that this design puts the foldable screen in the inside. The
surfaces of these screens probably won't be using scratch-resistant glass any
time soon.

~~~
excalibur
Agreed, but I wish they had designed it to fold along the other axis. This
thing looks weirdly thin and elongated when folded, and seems to have a lot of
wasted real estate above (and maybe below) the external screen. Folding in the
other direction would be much more natural. It would just look like a smaller,
thicker tablet.

------
ChuckMcM
Pretty amazing. I like the trademark name of "infinity flex" which implies you
can open and close it a lot of times, but wonder what the engineering spec on
that is.

I also wonder if there ends up being a note version and how well that works
with the stylus. All in all its a pretty fascinating device.

~~~
herogreen
Someone will build a lego technic testing device for sure.

------
twiceaday
The weight, which I am assuming is going to be around twice as much as a
normal phone, will be a huge turnoff for most people. And unlike a normal
phone you won't be able to use a pop-socket to help holding it or likely even
a case for protection when it falls.

~~~
gibolt
There is a surface without a screen that will be the back in all layouts. Why
wouldn't a pop-socket work?

~~~
twiceaday
It wouldn't be in the center when the phone was unfolded so you'd have to deal
with the phone wanting to rotate in the direction of the heavier side.

~~~
dstaley
I don't think you'd use the unfolded form one handed. I imagine it'd be more
like holding a small tablet.

------
ypolito
All these new transforming devices remind me of my old Nokia N90. Due to their
initial cost, way too few people had one and the ecosystem was lacking.

This one is way too expensive for me but I really appreciate the form factor
and the technology innovation surrounding it. I'd love to see someone like
JerryRigEverything [1] stress test and disassemble it.

I wonder how much Xiaomi's foldable equivalent will cost, which has no visible
hinges.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/user/JerryRigEverything/videos](https://www.youtube.com/user/JerryRigEverything/videos)

------
voltagex_
$2,747.35 AUD if it was going to be a 1 to 1 conversion (which it won't).

I'm being priced out of high end smartphones, and I have a well paying job.
This does not feel good.

~~~
megy
WTF? If you have a high paying job, this is a couple of days work, and it is
tax deducible in oz if you work in the industry.

~~~
Marsymars
The income required to make that a couple days work is several times more than
what I'd consider a "well paying job".

------
AdmiralAsshat
So how the hell are you going to put a case on this thing?

------
solarkraft
It seems to be the nicest iteration of a foldable phone so far.

I'm still doubtful about the usefulness, though. Does it support the S-pen?

I suppose they made it fold to the inside because their display technology
limits them to it (even though intuitively I'd expect the opposite to be
true), I would find it folding to the outside much more useful, since this
thing you'll have to unfold to (properly, the outside screen is quite small)
to use, but then it becomes a tablet ...

So far I see it mostly as a technology demo. I'm glad that manufacturers are
actually selling them, though, it gives a good feeling of the practicability
and readiness of the technology (and something for rich hipsters to buy).

~~~
dstaley
I'd much rather it fold inside to protect the display.

------
pxtail
This is amazing and the real game changer unlike some gimmicks like notch and
similar things. It's refreshing to finally see something different on the
market where all products are basically same since 5-7 year.

------
ChuckNorris89
Is that a huge notch in the upper right corner of the "tablet" screen?

~~~
cm2187
That was my first reaction. And when they watch a video, it looks like the
notch removes like 1cm of screen width. Which means that the videos gets
scaled down a lot from what it could look like if they placed the notch
differently.

Watching videos, reading ebooks or browsing websites on a large screen is the
first use I can think of for this screen.

~~~
anotheryou
the display is quite square, there will be black stripes bottom and top with
most videos anyways.

For reading: notch fits the status bar, so no text should scroll behind it.

------
hmexx
Does anyone know why both the Samsung and the other announced foldable phone
have huge bezels on the OUTSIDE screen? That's just a regular non-foldable
screen, why is it not edge-to-edge?

~~~
DennisAleynikov
Likely cost savings, also its the auxillary screen. They likely wanted it to
be useable with one hand and more for texting and email when on the go.

The star of the show was the inside screen with nearly no bezel even less than
the tab s5e or iPad Pro except for the camera cutout in the top corner.

------
veidr
This looks like a cumbersome phone to use. OTOH though, I would love it if my
11" iPad Pro could fold in half to fit in my pocket, even without any
usability when it was folded.

------
_bxg1
Low-key killer feature: a hand-sized display on a 2019 flagship

------
bitlax
Anyone know if the S10 or Fold will support Linux on Dex?

~~~
epmaybe
I'm glad someone mentioned this, or had a question about this, since it's the
one thing I would really want on a fully convertible device.

Currently the s9 and s9+ have open betas for Linux on dex, and it works on
note 9 and tab s4. I am pretty optimistic that the fold will support it.

But seriously, think about how great this would be: phone that could turn into
a tablet when you want (say, to read or consume media, or edit photos, or take
notes). That device would also be able to run in a desktop mode for you to
carry out work when you need to. The device as it currently stands does the
first two, with Linux on dex you get closer to the third.

~~~
DennisAleynikov
it 100% should support Linux on DeX and later this year Google should be
officially launching Android Studio for all AOSP devices so you can develop
apps for your Galaxy Fold right on your Galaxy Fold.

What a beautiful time we live in.

~~~
epmaybe
I had the Motorola Atrix when it first came out, my first Android phone. The
experience with the laptop dock blew me away, and installing chroot and a
terminal made it my daily laptop my freshman year of college. It was
unfortunately never updated, and the system was just a bit too slow for me.

I'm really hoping the experience on this will be much better, and really get
me the convergent experience I've wanted since then.

~~~
DennisAleynikov
highly recommend you test out any of Samsung's recent phones or tablets. s8
and up all have Samsung DeX which polishes the Atrix idea to be usable daily.

Samsung is really attacking this from the business side (automatically load
work desktop at work) and actually use it for development on the DeX team.

Its amazing that we can now write android apps on android itself.

------
jplayer01
$2000, and no pen? Well, that seems like a waste.

~~~
gibolt
I love being able to put my phone on a table and click the pen's button to get
a group shot with everyone in it.

Since this is so new, they had to trim all the fat to make the size
reasonable. The Note variant in v2 or v3 should provide

------
throw7
I'm more interested in a foldable smartphone than a foldable notepad, but I
can see how this would be the first iteration.

------
mxcrossb
Cool tech, but the design seems fundamentally flawed. There should be two
screens, not three. Putting them both on the outside does increase the wear
and tear, and it’s tough to know which side the user wants to use, but having
so much capability sit idle is a problem.

------
Invictus0
This is a classic case of the technology taking precedence over the
functionality. Samsung's TV division has invested billions in developing
flexible displays, thinking that this would be the future. Once the technology
got to the point where it was actually feasible, THEN they started thinking
about how they could market it.

Good product design starts by asking what the problem is and then building the
solution. Samsung started with a technology and then tried to figure out how
to sell it. The result is the gimmick you see here which, like all of the
tablet-phone combos that came before it, does nothing particularly well and
costs more than two solutions designed specifically for each use case (iPhone:
1000. iPad Mini: 400). When will people learn to stop jamming toasters and
vacuums together?

~~~
dragonwriter
> The result is the gimmick you see here which, like all of the tablet-phone
> combos that came before it, does nothing particularly well and costs more
> than solutions designed specifically for each use case.

Aren't Samsung's long line of successful phablets (and the influence they've
had on other flagship phones) a stark disproof of your claims about “all
previous tablet-phone combos”. Clearly, the utility the market finds in them
differs from the utility you find in them.

------
mcphage
I guess smartphones getting too expensive isn't a thing anymore?

~~~
rchaud
It's not. I had a Nokia X6 w/ 64GB storage and 6GB RAM shipped to me from HK
for US$300. Lots of good deals on devices from Xiaomi and Huawei as well.

Samsung sells smartphones from $50 to (now) $2000. You are taking the highest
possible price point and using that to push an argument about phone prices in
general.

~~~
mcphage
> You are taking the highest possible price point and using that to push an
> argument about phone prices in general.

 _Is_ that the highest possible price? I see the article says "starting at
$1,980" but I don't know where it goes from there.

------
jumelles
Samsung's answer to a $1,000 phone is a $2,000 phone? Bold.

~~~
overcast
Considering the first iPhone was $600, $728 in today's money, and did
basically nothing. I don't see how $1000 is completely unreasonable. Video
games still cost exactly the same(without inflation), with 100x the budget, as
they did 40 years ago, and people still bitch. People love blowing things out
of proportion.

~~~
DennisAleynikov
considering the iPhone X didn't have a single standout feature over the
smartphone market it's reasonable for people to criticise the price of $1000,
even apple realized that's not a viable strategy and released the XR at $750
as to avoid losing all of their customers with those exuberant prices offering
little more than camera upgrades and meaningless changes avg consumers can't
notice.

the avg person will tell you they don't know why the X is better it just looks
more futuristic and that's why apple sells it for $1000.

~~~
overcast
Well, X was lightyears better than my aging 6s. Is there a major leap year to
year to justify the cost? Of course not. Is everyone upgrading year to year?
Of course not. I'm not trying to justify a $1000 phone, but Apple hardware has
always been more expensive than the sum of its parts.

------
mr_spothawk
The future (of folding screens) is here, and it's gaudy.

------
mhb
So how do they have a continuous display across the hinge?

~~~
vb6lives
The led panel is flexible. LG has a 1mm screen you can roll up in a tube.

~~~
dzhiurgis
Travel display for laptops hhhhhnnnngg

~~~
Marsymars
I've played around with various travel display solutions, and IMO, the biggest
problems aren't in hardware portability, they're in software and connectivity.
Every solution feels like a finicky hack with various problems. (Display
software can't handle laptop going to sleep and back, extra display trashes
laptop battery, macOS updates randomly break displays)

I wouldn't expect a good travel display until Apple or MS makes a first party
one.

------
agumonkey
Could have designed a middle ground use case where you use the thing half
unfolded with interface at the bottom and content on top

------
Judgmentality
Am I the only person who found that entire presentation awkward? That guy just
seemed...uncomfortable up there.

~~~
vxNsr
No, it was incredibly weird. also the dude demoing appeared very nervous
(understandably, but still).

------
rfung_tika
How do people feel about Samsung's Fold vs Huawei?

------
skookumchuck
> run three apps at once

There are 3 numbers with programs - 0, 1, and infinity (or, more
pragmatically, "run out of memory"). Programs that have arbitrary limits like
"3" are just wrong.

It's like the filename length limitations in operating systems. No matter how
long they are, they are arbitrary and somebody overflows them. The real limit
should be the size of the disk drive.

~~~
duckerude
This is a user interface decision, not a programming decision.

Allowing simultaneous viewing of arbitrarily many apps may not be a problem
technically, but it would make the system more complex to use, with more
possible interpretations of actions. It's a tradeoff.

~~~
skookumchuck
Next year Samsung will announce a new phone with FOUR apps that can be open at
once! Or Apple will do it for them.

~~~
DennisAleynikov
they announced that with the Note 4 actually since that phone supported
Facebook messenger style floating windows for as many apps as you wanted.

Android nougat added that to the AOSP source so any android phone can open up
to 8 apps at once in floating windows. This is not new tech. The 3 way app
view is just a tiling window manager managing it in a weird way it's not a
real restriction

------
elindbe2
Brb, taking out a second mortgage.

------
slowmovintarget
I still want the Global Link from Earth: Final Conflict.

Need more screen... just pull it a little wider.

------
YeahSureWhyNot
so happy Samsung didnt follow Apple in making their 'budget' version, the S10
E bigger than their S10. Cant wait for them to start promotions to pick up one
for like $500

------
leowoo91
Somebody please make a foldable vr.

~~~
drusepth
Like, a foldable VR headset? Wouldn't that be Google Cardboard or similar?

~~~
leowoo91
Something smaller, that fits into our pockets perhaps but with its own screen.

------
chasing
Eh, looks pretty gimmicky to me. Like Samsung is desperate to find uses for
its folding screen technology.

------
syspec
Weird flex, but okay

------
skilled
$2,000 for a smartphone? HA HA HA...........

~~~
rfung_tika
Agreed it's a high price point but also thought that about the iPhone XS and
people still didn't flinch to pay that for face lock and animoji's.

