
Qwant Maps: open-source and privacy-preserving map - arghno
https://betterweb.qwant.com/qwant-maps-a-open-and-privacy-focused-map/
======
MayeulC
> All components developed by Qwant Maps are open source so that users can
> contribute directly to improve their experience with the map: they can
> contribute either to the Qwant Maps code or to the enrichment of the data
> directly in OpenStreetMap.

This is an important takeaway.

One of the pain points in the OpenStreetMap experience has been lack of
performance of the reverse geocoding engine (input lat/lon, get POIs/adress).
Or so I hear/see. It looks like they worked around this by only letting the
user click on known POIs.

One small nitpick: I find the simplified polygons to be... too polygonal
(forests, bodies of water, etc) at lower zoom levels. I don't know much about
this field, but that's probably a result of not picking the right points when
reducing the shape complexity? A bit like what bilinear/other filtering does
for raster.

~~~
rathel
The simplified polygons are a result of using vector tiles, more specifically
from OpenMapTiles project, as noted in copyright notice. They need to be
simplified in order to achieve reasonable size. Although we can argue how much
is too much.

~~~
MayeulC
This is true, but you can be smarter about which points you prune from the
polygon. If you take a random polygon and delete random points, you will
likely end up with a pointy shape (more so if you only leave a triangle).

I don't see why vector tiles should lower the end result's quality. In the end
this is strictly an aliasing issue.

Take those two zoom levels as an example. In the middle of the screen, a big
portion of the forest is discarded:

[https://www.qwant.com/maps/#map=7.92/50.4850901/16.1876218](https://www.qwant.com/maps/#map=7.92/50.4850901/16.1876218)

[https://www.qwant.com/maps/#map=8.10/50.4787168/16.2208950](https://www.qwant.com/maps/#map=8.10/50.4787168/16.2208950)

This isn't a very good example because those polygons were likely distinct,
but a better job could be done by joining them. I wonder what kind of data is
available to the vector engine. Would the pruning/simplification be done
server-side, or client-side (with the client only requesting parts of the
dataset)? In the later case, I feel like a smarter ordering of the primitives,
and maybe some hinting metadata, could make a visible difference already.

On the other hand, it seems that they went with splines instead of polygons
for roads, which produces a smoothed-out result. I think they should probably
do the same for water bodies and green areas at lower zoom levels.

------
188201
The problem with OpenstreetMap based map is that there are no good reversed
geocoding to search locations. For example, Osmand app is perfectly fine to
use except I can't search location by postal code. Pasting the address does
not work and searching only the street name leading to multiple city with same
street name.

What I am doing now is searching the location in Google, getting the
coordinate and searching the coordinate in OSM for offline map. A pretty dumb
workaround but nothing can beat Google's resources on refining their map.

If this project aimed to be the consumer version of openstreetmap, then I
would claim that reversed geocoding is the first thing that need to be fixed.

~~~
mintplant
Is that not what this very article describes?

> Mimirsbrunn (or simply Mimir) is the search engine of Qwant Maps. It allows
> to search for the following "punctual" geospatial objects: addresses,
> administrative areas and points of interest. It is a web service of
> geocoding (or more precisely geoparsing) that matches the user unstructured
> text query with a specific point (or area) on the map (i.e. a latitude and a
> longitude). The complexity of the problem is to disambiguate user requests.
> The roots of this ambiguity are numerous. First of all there are a large
> number of possible interpretations in the world for a given mention of a
> place: the difficulty is to choose the most "relevant" interpretation. Then
> there is the natural ambiguity due to the natural language: the user often
> looks for a place whose the exact spelling is not necessarily known.

~~~
tuukkah
How does Mimirsbrunn differ from Pelias?
[https://pelias.io](https://pelias.io)

~~~
ephesee
Both are geocoders using OpenStreetMap data and backed with Elasticsearch. The
main difference is how they handle geographical context, eg to determine in
which city/region each place is located. Which is useful both for indexing the
data and producing human-readable labels.

Pelias is using its own gazeteer
([https://whosonfirst.org/](https://whosonfirst.org/)) to index locations and
remarkable zones. Whereas Mimirsbrunn relies only on OSM data for this task
using Cosmogony ([https://github.com/osm-without-
borders/cosmogony](https://github.com/osm-without-borders/cosmogony)), a tool
that extracts official administrative boundaries and other shapes from OSM
data. But the world is a complicated place, and OSM tagging scheme doesn't
always lend itself to geocoding purposes. So it comes with a lot a caveats
which are still being working on :)

~~~
tuukkah
Thanks! I can see how using Cosmogony can make sense if Who's on First is too
complex but I'm afraid OSM doesn't have enough coverage of administrative
boundaries. The boundaries are mostly not visible in the physical world and
thus cannot be mapped in the traditional sense.

I wonder if there's an open catalog of boundary data analogous to
[https://openaddresses.io/](https://openaddresses.io/)

------
est31
Link to the live map:
[https://www.qwant.com/maps/](https://www.qwant.com/maps/)

~~~
jonas21
Thanks! It's absolutely baffling that they would write a blog post introducing
their map and not include a link.

~~~
J_cst
I've been looking for it too, with no luck! Thanks for the link

------
orblivion
I hate to be "that guy", but in their enthusiasm I think the writers forgot to
account for the "what is this?" demographic. I know what OSM is. I understand
that Google Maps tracks me to no end. I'm curious what exactly this is in a
nutshell, and it would be good for one of the early paragraphs. It looks like
a UI on top of OSM, but this wouldn't be the first. I assume there's something
else special here.

I appreciate any work in this area. I like the idea of a self-hosted map, if
indeed this is open source to that extent.

------
jstanley
This is cool, but how is it privacy-preserving? The server gets to see my
exact search terms, and also which tile areas I'm zooming in on.

Is it just that it's not linked to an account? If so, openrouteservice fits
the same bill:
[https://maps.openrouteservice.org/](https://maps.openrouteservice.org/)

~~~
black_puppydog
Trying out the live map, it does seem like "just" a much, _much_ nicer
interface to openstreetmap. And it does seem to do routing, but
openrouteservice is something that I use when I plan a multi-day hike in the
mountains, while qwant knows/shows the opening hours of shops around me, more
like google maps.

The two seem to be quite complementary. Each seems to beat google maps in
their own arena, at least where I live.

~~~
metildaa
StreetComplete has been collecting business hours for OSM, that is likely
where this data is coming from.

------
nickserv
We're getting to the point where mapping is becoming a simple apt-get install
away, and that's a great thing.

Projects like this are important not so much because of the service they
provide, but for the software that's being open sourced.

For example I was able to set up a mapping server by compiling (only to get
the latest versions) mapnik and osm2pgsql, downloading data from OSM, and
voilà... Next step is way finding, and there are a few options available.

Now I have another one to look into ;-)

------
iagovar
I really tried to use qwant, but their exact match operator (« ») is unusable
from a spanish keyboard, and guess the same happens for other languages, while
"keyword" seems more reasonable. I've tried to contact them many times through
many channels, never had a reply.

Qwant is not bad as a google alternative, but if this simple things are not
polished and it's basically impossible to give them feedback, I'm not even
gonna try.

~~~
solarkraft
I used Qwant for a while (lite, the main version is so cluttered), but found
the results to be hardly usable.

I do hope they manage to stay afloat though, as I am happy about any Google
challenger.

~~~
iagovar
Results in spanish are not bad. For the time I used it it was useful. But
there's the problem I mentioned. I use operators a lot and I can't live
without them. I don't want to use alt+numbers just for the basic one, and
also, everything seems or not translated to spanish, or only half-translated.
I don't really get it, since you have Spain + most latin america as a market.

------
chewz
I could recommend mapy.cz (there is English language interface).

[https://en.mapy.cz/](https://en.mapy.cz/)

They are based on topographic map with very high accuracy - better for biking
and walking in the forest. They search the route for road bike and mtb.

There is also an Android app.

------
abrowne
Glad it has bicycle directions, since that's my main use personally.

I just tried a search, and it got a POI location (a Minneapolis park building)
right even though I misspelled it, which is something other non-Google maps
are weak on in my experience. But weirdly I couldn't get it find my home
address (also Minneapolis), either with street number/name/direction, adding
the zip code or in full.

~~~
Doctor_Fegg
OSM-based geocoding often fails if you include the house number (because that
number almost certainly isn't mapped in OSM). Try removing that.

obPlug: if you're after OSM-powered bike directions, I run
[https://cycle.travel/map](https://cycle.travel/map)

~~~
abrowne
That makes sense as an explanation. But it means it's hard to use in a city
that has long streets with the same name the whole way.

------
Terretta
This may work in France, but it’s shockingly bad in New York.

I’m unable to find addresses that it doesn’t think I mean Brooklyn or Queens
instead of Manhattan. If I replace New York, NY with Manhattan, NY in the
search, to try to stay out of Brooklyn or Queens, it ends up showing addresses
in Europe instead.

For instance:

    
    
        144 W 48th St, Manhattan, NY
    

Goes instead to:

    
    
        144 Rue Frédéric Manhès (Champ-sur-Drac)
    

I haven’t deciphered how the search works to take me even to famous addresses
in New York City, unless the address is in the place’s name.

If I try to find a hotel called “Grande Cloche” in Brussels, it’s the top
result:

    
    
        A la Grand Cloche
    

If I type Hilton NYC, doesn’t work, but Hilton New York does. Seems like it’s
ok with literal names, not ok with addresses or geo names.

Of maps that work well for location finding, directions, and transit, in both
Europe and America, Apple Maps seems relatively privacy preserving.

------
eruci
The accuracy is terrible, try searching for "Bitzighoferstr 6 6060
Switzerland" and you get "Embassy of Switzerland in Moscow".
[https://www.qwant.com/maps/place/osm:node:698892171@Embassy_...](https://www.qwant.com/maps/place/osm:node:698892171@Embassy_of_Switzerland#map=18.00/55.7652453/37.6405076)

It should return:
[https://geocode.xyz/Bitzighoferstr%206+6060+Switzerland](https://geocode.xyz/Bitzighoferstr%206+6060+Switzerland)
"6 Bitzighoferstrasse, Sarnen, Switzerland 6060 / 46.90353,8.2472 "

Even adding the latitude,longitude manually for reverse geocoding returns some
strange results:
[https://www.qwant.com/maps/place/osm:node:1024510041@353_km#...](https://www.qwant.com/maps/place/osm:node:1024510041@353_km#map=18.00/49.3091298/142.8656364)

------
alias_neo
Trying to get from east London to Euston on foot, it suggests I walk on the
Thames for about 60% of the journey.

I'd love to be able to walk on water, but alas, I cannot.

Guess it's still very much Beta.

~~~
Fronzie
Isn't it routing you via a Ferry?

~~~
Symbiote
It seems to be [1].

Perhaps there's a miscalculation for when to use ferries.

If I wanted to get from Canary Wharf to Euston without a car quickly, I would
take the metro. If I want to walk, I don't want to use a ferry.

But of course, sometimes it's essential to use a ferry to get somewhere, like
an island. Perhaps that's why walking directions include the possibility to
use a ferry.

[1]
[https://www.qwant.com/maps/routes/?origin=street:osm:way:193...](https://www.qwant.com/maps/routes/?origin=street:osm:way:193407944@Canada%20Square&destination=osm:node:6472516924@Euston%20Square&mode=walking#map=13.03/51.5150907/-0.0929096)

~~~
tuukkah
The metro and other public transit is difficult to include in the directions
because it's highly time-dependent given operating hours and transfers (for
that, there's OpenTripPlanner). In addition, it's difficult to manage such
complex data correctly in OpenStreetMap (as opposed to separate GTFS files and
tools). OsmAnd for one is trying to get us there with a beta release of public
transit directions based on OSM data:
[https://osmand.net/blog/osmand-3-3-released](https://osmand.net/blog/osmand-3-3-released)

------
lwb
So this is basically a UI layer on top of OpenStreetMap?

Would be cool to see Android/iOS versions -- I rarely look at a map unless I'm
navigating somewhere, usually in the car.

~~~
rathel
I think "basically" may be an understatement. With OSM you get "only" (or "as
much as") data. The rest of the stack is up to you - whether you use some
ready-made open source solution or roll your own.

------
rathel
It's quite nice, although I prefer basemap style of maps.sygic.com - a similar
venture. It's much more legible.

~~~
everybodyknows
Hosted on Azure. Pushes an Android-browser user hard to install the app.

Based in Czechia: [https://travel.sygic.com/en](https://travel.sygic.com/en)

~~~
iagovar
Hey! It's actually good! I'd use it :)

------
visarga
Quant Maps search seems to be quite lacking. Searched for a large store in my
city, where I recently drove using Google Maps, and it can't find it. It just
responds to a match to the city name. When I used just the name without the
city, it found a pub half way around the world with exact name match.

------
Kinnard
Looks like this crowd would love BSV Maps. It puts crowdsourced map data onto
the Blockchain:

[https://twitter.com/justicemate/status/1144481701290078209](https://twitter.com/justicemate/status/1144481701290078209)

~~~
dewey
Why exactly is a Blockchain needed for that?

~~~
Kinnard
1) It's an experiment. Perhaps it will be abandoned.

2) Curation/Upvotes via transaction needs to be on chain.

~~~
dewey
2) Why do you need the overhead of a blockchain to increment a counter?

~~~
Kinnard
It's not a counter, people pay bitcoin to upvote.

------
m463
I think what folks need is download + local search.

\- download everything about a large area: city or county or zipcode or
similar

\- do any kind of searching on the local machine within that data

This would be basically localized offline maps and would preserve privacy.

~~~
mkesper
Osmand can do a lot there.

------
Ambele
These OSM-based maps are pretty! Is there a way to set the distance and
scaling in Miles instead of Kilometers for all of us USA folk?

