
Mary Anderson, a Founder of the Outdoor Cooperative REI, Dies at 107 - BobbyVsTheDevil
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/10/business/mary-anderson-died-co-founder-of-rei-cooperative.html
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macNchz
I have a lot of appreciation for the fact that, despite how large the company
has become, it's very clear that outdoorsiness is still a big part of the
REI's DNA, especially with so many companies these days owned by private
equity firms that seem to be most interested in milking their brands for all
they're worth.

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mbesto
It's worth noting that REI is a co-op, which means it's owners are actually
it's customers.

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Bartweiss
I'd never actually dealt with a co-op before REI. The profits shared aren't
huge, but combined with the membership discount it's often cheaper than
shopping online resellers. I'm impressed.

~~~
mbesto
Well technically speaking, REI profits aren't huge because its a retailer.
You're looking at generally 2-10% margin businesses.

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Bartweiss
Yeah, I don't meant to imply they're shortchanging anyone - retail sales are
tough even on higher-margin goods like outdoor gear. I was just comparing to
online retailers, where profit-share + member discount brings them to rough
parity.

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SnacksOnAPlane
REI is my favorite toy store. I know their prices are higher than, say, Wal-
Mart, but I actually feel good supporting them. Plus, you can find insanely
good sales if you're a member and you go to their garage sales.

One year I got an entire ski setup (boots, skis, bindings, and installation)
for under $300. Ended up reselling them for like $500 3 years later when I
moved away from Boston.

Got great boots at a garage sale for like $30, too. You just have to be
prepared to get there early and scavenge.

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devy
> REI is my favorite toy store.

It's mine too. Do they advertise garage sales or you have to be friends with
the store manager to get the scoop?

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praneshp
They advertise them. Just go to the store's page, for example Mountain View is
at [https://www.rei.com/stores/mountain-
view.html](https://www.rei.com/stores/mountain-view.html)

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ejlangev
What a great company, always feel like they have good products, good sales,
and helpful employees. Never regretted buying something from REI.

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hueving
Except for the insane prices for everything, sure. It's great for people with
money to burn, but it's definitely not a good place to shop if you're into
outdoor activities and not rich.

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dirtae
Where do you recommend shopping for outdoors gear that offers a significantly
better value than REI? The gear at REI is not cheap, for sure, but it's also
high quality. You can get cheaper gear at big box stores and discounters, but
it will also fall apart more quickly, often negating the lower price.

When shopping for gear, I look around and check Backcountry.com, Moosejaw, and
other retailers, and on average, REI's prices are not out of line with those
other shops. And, of course, if you pay full price for something at REI, you
get 10% back as a dividend at the end of the year, and REI's return policy is
very generous.

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avar
A lot of mountaineering gear costs a _lot_ , but lasts for a really long time.
It's like buying a car in some ways. So your go-to solution should be to buy
used.

There's no shortage of people who bought an $800 backpack along with $2000 of
other gear, who thought they'd be using them regularly, who later find out
that they made a significant investment in a hobby they don't care much about.

Unless you're swimming in money buying gear from those people should be your
first choice.

Knowing what to buy is also a huge factor. E.g. the market for backpacks is a
bit like the market for racing bikes. You can easily end up spending 3-4x what
you actually need because you're convinced that you need the latest &
greatest. A bit like the weekend warriors who buy $4000 carbon fiber racing
bikes to shave of a couple of kilos, which, unless you're competing, is a
complete waste of money.

~~~
up_and_up
> So your go-to solution should be to buy used.

Unless you are talking about mountaineering gear like anything climbing
related: ropes, cams etc.

How in the heck can you trust that used gear will work 100%? I would rather
spend more $$ to reduce risk.

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avar
I'd buy that used too.

You know there are climbing gyms where you're using both dynamic ropes &
carabiners used by thousands of people before you? Those places aren't death
traps.

Ditto mountaineering tours etc. for newbies that usually have every incentive
not to report if they damage some of the equipment.

Carabiners, ropes & the like are tested when they're manufactured. Any damage
likely to damage their structural integrity is usually going to be quite
obvious. E.g. the carabiner won't close, or the rope will look like shit
(although puncturing the core of a rope with crampons can be a subtle
exception).

All other things being equal you're likely to be better off with brand new
equipment, but you're also probably way better with used equipment where you
spent that extra $500 you saved on some safety course & expert instruction,
than skipping that and buying a brand new rope & carabiners.

Failing to properly secure a knot to a used carabiner is a _way_ more likely
cause of death than the carabiner itself failing.

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snowwrestler
I agree with you on metal hardware--if it looks and works fine, it probably
is.

It's hard to evaluate a climbing rope by visually inspecting it, though. The
strength depends primarily on the core strands, which are hidden away behind
the sheath. Chemical damage is not as visible as people assume it is.

It's especially hard for lead ropes, because every significant fall takes some
the elasticity out of the core. A rope can look perfectly fine even if it is
no longer capable of absorbing a lead fall. The danger here isn't so much that
the rope will break, but that the lack of stretch will overload your pro, your
body, or potentially even the anchor.

So I would be very hesitant to buy a lead rope used, unless you really know
and trust the person. Top-roping should be fine because the fall factor is so
low. You can top rope with static cord if you're attentive to the belay.

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Paul-ish
Why aren't more businesses run as coops owned by either the workers or the
customers?

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iamatworknow
Because that means less money for the people on top. Most people don't start a
business out of altruism.

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dikdik
...but I thought most entrepreneurs wanted to "change the world" with
"revolutionary" businesses?

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cies
Haha. That's the "get everyone to look in the same direction, aren't we a
lovely family, infesting a take more ownership than you take shares" story
that private business tells. In the end the ones making equity investments in
the business walk away with the surplus (both in profit and in valuation). :)

I think coops are more suitable for that "change the world" while being
"revolutionary" story. In fact many anarchists (and market socialists, and
mutualists) envision a big coop sector to democratize work life. I think it's
pretty revolutionary in that way. Noam Chomsky and Murray Bookchin promote
these ideas.

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dikdik
It definitely surprises me that with all the talk of "following your passion"
and "changing the world", we see pretty much 0 innovation in HOW a company
works/is owned/etc. Instead all innovation is focused at the product level.

I don't think there's anything wrong with caring about money, in fact I think
it's a mistake not to care about money in a system that revolves around money.
However, listening to people tell me how "passionate they are about 'X'" when
in reality they are only passionate about making money is one my biggest pet
peeves.

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subpixel
As a member, I get an annual dividend from REI. I can assure you that sending
customers money is a great way to engender loyalty.

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regulation_d
I guess it depends on how you look at it. I think technically the "dividend"
is a refund on an overpayment. Which is kind of like them saying, "Hey, why
don't you give us money as membership fee and and we'll give you a 10%
discount. Then you're going to overpay on all your goods by 10%. And we're
going to hold on to that money, interest-free for you for like a year or
whatever, but eventually we'll give it back."

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snowwrestler
The dividend is like a profit-sharing plan.

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davidw
I wish we had 'Decathlon' in the US. It's kind of similar to REI, but the gear
is much cheaper, and in some cases of more modest quality (but still quite
functional rather than 'cheap crap'). This is a great tradeoff to make if
you're pretty casual about this or that activity and not ready to invest the
big bucks.

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justinator
Decathlon just reminded me of Sports Authority or Dicks or something like
that. Except, you know: French.

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davidw
I found their stuff to be a bit better than the 'cheap outdoor stuff' places
in the US. It's not super high quality, but it seems to get the job done and
not fall apart.

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anon263626
REI usually has fantastic gear good enough to not have to seek out specialty
stores. Just one example: I got a better, rugged water bottle (7 gal) for less
that the cost of the crappy (3 gal) one offered by the local water store. If
you needed an ultracompact sleeping-bag and tent for protesting in North
Dakota winters, REI probably carries it. Or climbing gear. Or a titanium
spork.

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nether
What type of rope coiling is that on Mr. Anderson's shoulder?

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scottcha
Looks like a daisy chain:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75XNCMKW7XE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75XNCMKW7XE)

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bmj
Technical climbers will often refer to this as an electrician's coil[0]
because a daisy chain[1] is a specific type of runner.

[0]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaEv9wm6gy0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaEv9wm6gy0)
[1] [https://www.rei.com/product/113898/black-diamond-12mm-
dynex-...](https://www.rei.com/product/113898/black-diamond-12mm-dynex-daisy-
chain)

~~~
semi-extrinsic
The electrician's coil is very nice, especially the quick unraveling. I always
re-tie survival bracelets into these kinds of braids - I dunno who has five
minutes to untie their regular-braid survival bracelets in case of emergency.

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code4tee
REI is a great company

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arkis22
107\. Holy cow. Dude did something right.

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zzalpha
Yes, _she_ did...

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helthanatos
Why italicize she?

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rwc
"Dude" is typically understood to be male.

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Aloha
Where I grew up _Dude_ is typically non-gendered.

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stephenhuey
I've used dudette frequently over the decades.

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Aloha
either-or really.

