
Dogs learn to drive in New Zealand - dmmalam
http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/12/06/watch-dogs-learn-to-drive-in-new-zealand/
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po
I have long thought that it's the most intelligent dogs that have the worst
behavior problems. Although, it's not their fault, it's the fault of an owner
who thinks they can reason with their dog using people-logic when they really
need to learn more about how dogs think and behave.

Owning an intelligent dog is like signing up for acting classes. The dog will
watch your every move and play you like a chump if you do the wrong thing. It
requires you to act like the alpha dog (which is a very awkward feeling to
most people) in order to maintain the behaviors you want. This means
understanding how dogs see reward, punishment, encouragement, etc… or at least
learning what to do when you see behavior that you don't like and
understanding how your own behavior affects the dog.

I wouldn't say that less intelligent breeds/individuals don't have issues, but
a super-smart shepherd or hunting dog can easily get bored and turn that
creative energy into a destructive streak.

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pbiggar
Agreed about bored dogs having the worst behaviour, and the rest of your
comment is spot on, but I'd like to correct a common but incorrect belief that
you bring up:

> It requires you to act like the alpha dog (which is a very awkward feeling
> to most people) in order to maintain the behaviors you want.

The "alpha-dog" theory has been totally disproved by dog behaviourists. It was
an extrapolation from a single case study in the 1930s, of captive wolves. It
has since been debunked, and is not even applicable to wolves, never mind
domestic dogs.

All the dog training which is based on this (such as Cesar Milan's submission-
based training) holds no merit, and is far more likely to be detrimental than
positive, as it relies on terrifying the dog. Note that this was only debunked
in 2000, so a huge amount of dog training and research needs to be revised as
a result.

Much more detail here: [http://www.whole-dog-
journal.com/issues/14_12/features/Alpha...](http://www.whole-dog-
journal.com/issues/14_12/features/Alpha-Dogs_20416-1.html)

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adrianbye
the page you links to cites one solo "debunking" study which was done by a guy
named Dave Mech, who links to occupy wall street and likes "evolutionary
biology and social justice": <http://www.davemech.com/>

people's personal views often influence research

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pbiggar
You make him sound like a fringe lunatic. After reading your comment I
pictured a young hipster writing pseudo-science to suit his political agenda.

In actual fact, his "solo debunking study" is one of a very long academic
career of studying wolves and other prey. Quoting from
<http://www.davemech.org/>: "L. David Mech (pronounced "Meech") is a Senior
Scientist with the Biological Resources Division, U.S. Geological Survey and
an Adjunct Professor in the Department of Fisheries, Wildlife and Conservation
Biology, and Ecology, Evolution and Behavior at the University of Minnesota.
He has studied wolves and their prey since 1958, as well as several other
species of wildlife."

He has a massive list of peer-reviewed publications, going back 50 years
(<http://www.davemech.org/publications.html>), and looks exactly like every
serious academic researcher I've come across.

Yet he links to OWS from his personal site and all of a sudden that's all
invalidated?

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adrianbye
frans de waal is another along the same lines.

check out the two sides of evolutionary psychology - the bonobos and the
chimpanezee. the bonobos are the feminine, nice, friendly monkeys that are
dying out. the chimpanzees are warlike and aggressive and are quite strong.
both are closely related to humans.

researchers will generally take one side or another depending on whether their
views skew more to the left or the right

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papa_bear
As much as I respect this for being way cooler than anything I'll ever teach
my dog, I can't help but think there are better things to teach them to make
them seem more adoptable. Maybe train them to fetch beers from a minifridge,
then package the adoption with a dog-accessible minifridge and a 30 rack for
an extra $200. Boom, sustainable charity

~~~
pbiggar
I showed this comment to a shelter volunteer, and they were livid. They felt
this would attract the wrong kind of people to adopt dogs: dogs need loving
homes, not people who view them as kitschy party tricks.

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papa_bear
This driving thing is already a kitschy party trick. And I teach my dog wacky
tricks mostly to show friends when they come over, but it doesn't mean I don't
love him.

I think the only reason it invites the idea that it would attract the wrong
kind of people is because I used a beer example. But if dogs came knowing how
to fetch drinks from the fridge, I think few would complain.

~~~
pbiggar
The driving thing serves their purpose: a wide reaching campaign to show that
dogs are really smart, even shelter dogs.

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pbiggar
There's a really interesting question about incentivization behind this.
Everybody knows that there are too many dogs, and as a result many die in
shelters because they aren't adopted. Yet many folks continue to buy dogs from
breeders, particularly in America where they actually sell dogs in stores!

So what is the best solution so that exactly the right amount of dogs exist
and none are killed. This is innovative, but I suspect training doesn't scale.
Perhaps make it illegal to sell dogs until we're out of strays? Maybe a tax
deduction for adopting a dog, or a tax penalty on buying a dog? Or an anti-
breeding campaign (like the anti-fur one which has been very successful)?

I'd love to hear some cool ideas here.

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ScottBurson
Professional breeders are not the problem. It is not in breeders' interests to
flood the market and collapse prices.

The problem is irresponsible pet owners who fail to neuter and spay their
pets.

Santa Cruz County, California, where I used to live, enacted in 1995 a law
requiring neutering and spaying of pets. (A breeder's licensed can be
purchased for something like $100 annually, IIRC.) The numbers of animals in
the shelters dropped dramatically.

Efforts to pass a similar bill at the state level failed, however.

~~~
pbiggar
I doubt it's an either-or situation.

However, I'll note that all shelter neuter and spay, so if it irresponsible
pet owners who are responsible, than it is limited to those owners who did not
get their dogs from a shelter.

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carey
The original story is at [http://www.3news.co.nz/SPCA-teaches-dogs-to-
drive/tabid/367/...](http://www.3news.co.nz/SPCA-teaches-dogs-to-
drive/tabid/367/articleID/279037/Default.aspx), though I don’t know if it’s
available outside New Zealand.

~~~
paupino_masano
Haha, I saw this a few days on the Herald. It's my only tie back to news in NZ
at the moment! The link for that one is:
[http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&obj...](http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10851829)

But looks like 3 News did cover it first :)

~~~
lostlogin
I know the feeling. I can't stand the herald, but how else do you know what's
going on

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Pr0
This is impressive on so many levels. It's not so much that they are taught
basic tasks over and over, but that together those tasks amount to something
so much more complex.

~~~
stcredzero
One can say the same for human beings.

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tamersalama
Sorry - couldn't help it.

Related: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ueg7Q7hO7U>
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwpWaLrDHnU>

There was another prank but couldn't find it

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nigelsampson
Nice to see NZ on the front page for something other than Kim Dotcom.

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stcredzero
The dogs in the video look supremely pleased to me. There's something about
the way dogs stick their heads out the car window that makes me think most of
them would love to drive. I'm not the only one. I remember hearing someone's
song about the same thing and wishing they could let their dog drive the car.
If in 30 years, with advances in genetic engineering and our understanding of
intelligence, dogs were driving cabs, I wouldn't think that's wrong at all,
but somehow right.

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redact207
Granny-shifting. Not double-clutching, like you should.

~~~
jordan0day
Maybe if the dogs were driving 30 year old cars. The dogs obviously know those
Minis have synchros.

~~~
qbrass
Yes, the dogs are smarter than the writers for The Fast and the Furious.

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DigitalSea
I'm surprised they didn't try and teach sheep how to drive instead, ha ha.
Seriously though, this is kind of cool and scary at the same time.

~~~
jQueryIsAwesome
At least the risk of drunk drivers would fall to cero. Also they are probably
more polite than the average driver.

~~~
Ziomislaw
and dont try to run over all cyclists they see (just the mailman ;P )

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ichinaski
That´s not a dog. That´s an ewok.

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rhokstar
A new game of fetch! LMAO!

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derleth
"I am driving! I like driving! I am an excellent SQUIRREL!"

That said, if these dogs drove cabs I bet they'd stop for _everyone_ who
hailed them.

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indiecore
Ok so who else is seeing an opportunity to completely undercut all those Taxi
startups?

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billiam
Proving that hipsters are as trainable as dogs?

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frozenport
Most hipsters are too cool to drive.

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rerere
After we started letting women drive, this was only a matter of time.

