

The Oxbridge Fallout Effect - xirium
http://twak.blogspot.com/2008/03/oxbridge-fallout-effect.html

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teamonkey
I grew up in and around Oxford. In my summer I worked for a laundry service
that cleaned the sheets of Oxford students. I know for a fact that they often
made the wrong decisions in many different ways.

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danohuiginn
Any group is surrounded by people who cop the attitude but don't have the
talent. Think of all the wannabe rockstars who focus on the drugs and the
groupies, or the people who can't write, but mimic Sartre in coffee and
cigarettes.

In the case of Oxbridge (and others?) the opposite effect is also important.
There are a lot of smart people around those towns who aren't connected to the
university. Often they don't get the respect they deserve from university
folks, because they don't have the attitude and the style and the in-jokes.

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flipbrad
I go to Oxford, and that post is a gross and in many cases largely inaccurate
generalisation. I'm sorry the oxbridge guys and girls you've known are so
insufferable. I think you're significantly off the mark taking that experience
and making a generalisation that encompasses two entire campus-worths of
students. It's a bad depiction that's likely to keep the myth going and put
off intelligent but maybe from a state school or that are not the most
cocksure (intellectually or socially) of people - but people who could
contribute a LOT to the university over time.

People have to know that it's OK to come here and learn new stuff, and be
bright and contribute something back in your projects, and later, a PhD; you
don't have to come, be socially accepted, show off all the time, and mentally
abuse people in debates down at the Union or even just at the bar. Surprised
this is front page of HN, tbh. Not sure what values it adds to anyone.

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twak
yes, it's a generalisation. yes, oxbridgians put both legs into a trouser.
however the system does build up palpable differences in ability between a
general oxford student and someone just as smart who ends up somewhere else.

But the bulk of the post is about the effect of working with well schooled
individuals - if you're not as smart then copying their mannerisms can often
be a world of hurt for all.

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jsmcgd
> the system does build up palpable differences in ability between a general
> oxford student and someone just as smart who ends up somewhere else

I think this is just plain false. There are plenty of truly smart people at
all universities and the quality of teaching doesn't vary much across
universities. The only real difference between Oxbridge and rest is that
they're harder to get into. Once you're in they're much the same.

The benefit you will get out of any teaching institution will directly
correlate with the effort you put in.

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twak
So, moving away from the point of the post- yes there are many smart & cool
CTOs, CEOs & MDs that didn't go to Oxbridge.

But what you learn at uni is proportional to delta^2 in the intelligences of
the people around you. If it's harder to get in, the people are smarter, and
you learn more. There's less drag, classes move faster. You don't need to be
a-CEO-level-handshaker to meet the right people, because there are so many.
Oxbridge have obscene resources - classes to print your own chips or 1:2
tuition that the next layer of universities down don't get.

There is a mini-valley-effect going on there, that makes it much more likely
for someone to act smart if they've been to an elitist university.

Yes I'm bitter. (Yes they rejected me)

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jsmcgd
Congratulations and welcome to the club. I was rejected too and to be honest I
think they made the right decision. When I applied 5 years ago I definitely
wasn't the academic they were looking for.

Anyway my point is just that I wouldn't put too much stock in the fact that
just because these institutions are filled with arguably the brightest people
in the land that this will automatically propel you upwards. I personally feel
that the value of a university is very closely tied to its curriculum, not its
resources or people.

(anecdotal evidence: I know some people who went to universities with more
stringent entry requirements and left there only knowing how to program in
Pascal. In my university they now teach Haskell, Prolog and Java in year 1).

If you still feel very strongly about the benefits of networking in Oxbridge
you can always apply to do an MBA.

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twak
you just made my day by posting that link - how did you find that post? (was a
late night rant commenting on office politics). Very nice to see :) but maybe
typical of hn's fall from grace from "how to be the best" to "how to compete
with the best"

