

Renouncing citizenship to avoid taxes may mean Savarin can never enter US again - brown9-2
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2012/05/buh-bye_2.php

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btbuilder
The article quotes law/procedure that indicates that he would be 'excludable'.
I didn't see where it gave evidence that he would be excluded, such as
precedent? All aliens are supposed to be treated as a possible immigrant and
must provide reason/evidence to prove otherwise.

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medusa666
This may come as a shock, but some people manage to lead perfectly fulfilling
lives without ever visiting the US.

About the only inconvenience I can imagine would be the inability to change
flights (or refuel his jet) in Miami, but I'm sure he'll manage.

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bunderbunder
Not being allowed to visit your hometown or college buddies might also be
rather inconvenient.

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pan69
It seems people are very sensitive about someone renouncing his citizenship,
as if it's a big crime that's being committed here.

The guy has decided to go live in another country, for reasons none but his
own, so why should he hold on to his US citizenship? Oh, I see, it's a US
citizenship, given to you by the grace of God himself. You don't just
throwaway a precious gift like that. Now do you?

To me it seems there is quite some spite about this with various overly
patriotic people out there.

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bunderbunder
I think it's really more about the taxes. The US is (almost?) unique among
countries for laying claim to the income of citizens who are living and
working abroad, and the government has an established record of being pretty
nasty about it. This law wouldn't be the first time I've heard of the US
government taking a "if you don't give us money we won't let you visit your
family" attitude towards its expats.

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sp332
Good thing he's not avoiding taxation then. I'm not sure where that idea
started, actually. When he leaves, he will have to pay an "exit tax" that's
just as if he'd sold all his stock. The standard 15% capital gains tax would
come to about half a Billion dollars! So he's actually going to be paying a
lot of taxes when he leaves.

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itsmequinn
Yes, but then he won't have to pay additional capital gains tax on the stock
if it happens to skyrocket in the years following his renunciation of
citizenship. You only pay tax on the profit you make on stock investments, so
any profit he stands to make in the years following his renunciation will be
tax free.

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sp332
Any profit he stands to make in the years following will be _taxed according
to the laws of his new residence_.

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xiaoma
As itsmequinn said, tax free.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax#Singapore>

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dguaraglia
Yeah, I'm sure the US will close the doors to a billionaire... just out of
spite.

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mistercow
Is it "out of spite" when the government fines someone for speeding?

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intev
It's not "out of spite", but it's because they are _breaking the law_. What
Saverin is doing is completely legal, and it would be petty on US's part to
not even give him a US tourist visa.

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mistercow
> but it's because they are breaking the law.

No, it's because fining them is a deterrent to other would-be speeders. What
Saverin is doing is not _completely_ legal. It's _technically_ legal. And the
reason for that technicality is that the US can't really impose criminal
penalties against non-citizens. But that doesn't mean they can't create a
deterrent by denying those non-citizens visas in the future.

I would argue that it is quite worthwhile for the US to send the message that
there are consequences for coming into our country, taking advantage of our
corporate ecosystem to become immensely wealthy, and then skipping out before
tax day (which is an exaggeration, I know, but you get the point). I don't see
anything remotely petty about that.

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gm
Your statement that the US cannot impose criminal penalties against non-
citizens is very wrong. There are a bunch of non-citizens in the USA who are
arrested and penalized if they commit a crime. there are countless
extraditions that happen for foreigners who commit crimes against US interests
while being outside of this country. and of course there is Guantanamo.

No one is unreachable from the US, American citizen or not.

And what Saverin did is _legal_. You cannot have something be partially legal,
or technically legal but somehow still illegal; it's the same with being
pregnant. You either are, or are not. There is no middle ground.

And if we were smart, we would grant Saverin a visa right away. Anyone in the
USA would prefer that money is invested in the USA than anywhere else. Or do
we not want outside investment? "We don't want your money, go create jobs
somewhere else!"

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mistercow
The law provides for a deterrent penalty to be used against people who
renounce their citizenship to avoid taxation. Whether or not that makes it
"illegal" is a matter of semantics and completely irrelevant to whether or not
the law should be enforced.

And yes, there is some revenue lost by not letting a billionaire into the
country, but that has to be weighed against the consequences of letting people
skip out to avoid taxation.

~~~
intev
I think you're making an assumption here that when they forgo citizenship they
get all the good stuff (money) and they don't have to deal with the bad stuff
(taxes). Saverin won't be able to make an investment in the US easily. He also
won't be able to own or buy properties/businesses. If he truly wanted to earn
more, he would pay up the taxes in order to take advantage of the privileges
of being in a country like the USA. I'm not from here, and you guys have it
great. If I were in Saverin's position, I would choose to stay because I would
still want to contribute to the economy. But I also see the argument for
wanting to take time off in other countries. I think its incredibly unfair for
a ex-citizen to be denied a visa just because he chose to forgo its privileges
and taxes.

