

Ask HN:  Rate this Start Up - Venmo.com - keltecp11
http://www.venmo.com

======
tseabrooks
I like it - it's software the encourages you, maybe even forces you, to share
the experience with someone else turning every user into evangelist. It also
seems like it would make financial transactions very simple.

My only concern would be that phone numbers still haven't become non-
transferable identification.

I'm sure you have considered these issues before but I would wonder about:

My parent dies and their cell phone account is turned off - how do I get their
money out of this service?

My wife and I share a cell phone but we don't share checking accounts.

Someone has already created an account for my phone number.

I use multiple cell phone numbers.

etc.

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simon_
Just curious: Do you eat the transaction fee if people fund their accounts
with credit cards? If so... it seems like people might pay themselves
thousands of dollars to rack up rewards at your expense.

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chaosmachine
It's a great idea, but in reality, it's going to be a very tough job to make
it secure and legal. If you haven't read the PayPal chapter in "Founders at
Work" yet, you should.

~~~
chasingsparks
Or, PayPal Wars: [http://www.amazon.com/PayPal-Wars-Battles-Media-
Planet/dp/09...](http://www.amazon.com/PayPal-Wars-Battles-Media-
Planet/dp/0974670103)

It also mentioned the legal hoops they had to jump through...and was a very
interesting read.

------
joubert
In South Africa (I moved to New York five years ago), it is common for people
to transfer money from their bank account to that of a friend's electronically
- either online or on your phone.

I was quite surprised coming to the US that it is not common here as well.

~~~
flooha
It's the same in Europe. My wife is Spanish and when I learned that you could
transfer money to anyone's bank account easily and free, my brain exploded.

It's amazing that the U.S. is (was?) considered the leader of technological
innovation, but we're still so backward on something like this. It reeks of
corruption and lobbyists.

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mgrouchy
The fact that the site is "godaddy secured" fills me with confidence.

~~~
callmeed
I get the sarcasm, but I don't get the point. Does the fact that GoDaddy has a
horrible site/shopping experience from a usability standpoint somehow
translate into a security stamp of approval that is "watered down"? Has GD has
some major security breach? (maybe they have, I don't know).

Are everyday users of this service going to care?

~~~
tdoggette
The point is that GoDaddy has destroyed their brand to the point where their
security guarantee inspires nothing but a visceral "ugh" reaction from
everyone who's ever used them.

~~~
callmeed
250% revenue growth over 3 years isn't evidence of a destroyed brand, IMO.

[http://www.inc.com/inc5000/2009/company-
profile.html?id=2009...](http://www.inc.com/inc5000/2009/company-
profile.html?id=200912410)

------
hristov
That will work only if it is guaranteed that the sender phone number in an SMS
message cannot be spoofed. Is this the case? Does anyone know?

~~~
tptacek
SMS isn't secure.

~~~
mmelin
Not even close to secure.

I haven't worked with US phones, but in Europe I can send you a SMS message
that appears to be from any MSISDN (phone number). Violates all kinds of terms
of service and contracts, but there's absolutely no technical verification of
origin of standard SMS.

------
mikeryan
What's the revenue model?

~~~
mtrimpe
I love how this comment has no upvotes.

~~~
heyitsnick
It clearly states on the site they make money of every text message sent.

edit: from the info pages

"We charge a transaction fee every time you receive money. Sometimes, the
person sending you money can pay for the fees associated with the transaction.
Those fees are outlined on our Venmo Fees page."

There's also a premium service for businesses.

<http://info.venmo.com/pricing/pricing-plan-comparison/>

~~~
kevinholesh
But the person who submitted the story says otherwise:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=948793>

~~~
keltecp11
As of right now they are not charging... it is open beta... but i'm sure that
will change.

------
ankeshk
You need some kind of a security code / pin system to prevent against fraud.
Venmo has to match the pin in the message sent along with the phone number the
message is sent from. And proceed with the payment only if the pin matches.

Venmo $10 to Jenny 1990

Where the last 4 digits of the message - 1990 in this case - is the security
pin code.

------
kortina
A bunch of you all emailed for invites--we're sending a batch out later this
week. We'd love to hear more of your thoughts once you use it. A few cursory
answers: everything is free for now (we're still trying to figure out what the
transaction fees will look like, but they will be competitive with credit
card), Paypal is a great comparison and as someone recced with a link Paypal
Wars is an awesome read, we love the Godaddy brand too, the syntax is very
flexible and constantly adapting to the way people want it to work, if anyone
knows the textpayme guys would love to chat with them (i'm @kortina),
Fundraiser events-YES!, and yes security and fraud are tough problems but we
are eager to tackle them. Think that covers most of them. Again, thanks to
those who wished us luck and provided criticism.

------
orblivion
If it's a service that holds any large amount of money, I'd want to make sure
it's associated with or somehow endorsed by a major, trusted organization. The
site looks nice and all, but still like a small business.

Also, doesn't Paypal offer this?

------
DTrejo
_and we use advanced encrypting algorithms to protect the financial
information stored in our system._

encryption algorithms

------
marltod
Have you thought about giving the option to link to paypal accounts?

Early adopters will not have venmo accounts but will have paypal accounts. You
may get more new users if you give the option to use funds in the paypal
account. The service could at minimum send the user an e-mail with a link to
the paypal destination and amount.

------
aditya
<http://www.crunchbase.com/company/textpayme> anyone?

~~~
DanielStraight
Also:

[https://www.paypal.com/cgi-
bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/Marketing/mobi...](https://www.paypal.com/cgi-
bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/Marketing/mobile/MobileAdvancedFeatures-outside)

------
rsingel
There are A LOT of rules around money transaction services and the feds have
only gotten stronger in their enforcement of them post-9/11. You'll need to
watch out for so much fraud from carders. Best of luck, but perhaps you should
talk to the textpayme guys, who did some very fancy things to avoid
regulation.

------
jeremyw
I'd make that "godaddy secured" animation static. It completely distracted me
from your how-it-works anim up top.

------
CytokineStorm
I think buying your own SMS short code is key to making this service look
legitimate to new users. No one wants to text information about money
transfers to a phone number that could be anyone.

Also, the phone graphics on your homepage are copied directly from the
TextMarks site!

------
astartupaday
This is a hot space, note that Gartner just released a list of the top 10
consumer mobile applications for 2012 and Money Transfer via SMS is #1:
<http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=1230413>

------
pgbovine
first impression - how flexible is the input syntax? as a user, i'd be mad if
i thought i typed in something syntactically correct (e.g., "venmo $5 to bob
for lunch") but there was actually a syntax error and my transaction didn't go
through

------
fjabre
This is almost exactly how Paypal started - except they 'beamed' it over
instead of using SMS.

Eventually they realized that people were much more interested in using their
website to transfer money, hence what we have today..

------
prpon
Nicely done interface. A minor nitpick, if you send SMS to 646-863-9557,
shouldn't the second screen have a different phone number? Or does all of the
interaction you show there happens on the person sending the money?

------
kirpekar
Very cool & good luck! I hope you can bring down PayPal to their knees.

------
idleworx
what happens if someone picks up your phone and writes venmo $100 to
555-123-4567 for hack. 555-123-4567 being their number? how can you issue a
refund or deal with issues like this?

~~~
evandavid
They got around this with Pago in NZ
(<https://www.pago.co.nz/section261.aspx>) by working with the banks. The
money doesn't get transferred from your primary chequing account - you have a
separate account which is your Pago 'wallet'. Only that money is accessible to
the service, and you have to use internet banking to transfer money from your
chequing account into your wallet.

~~~
idleworx
i understand. but the money still gets transferred from your 'wallet' account
to the destination. how is that a reversible action in case of user error or
malicious intent?

------
sunkencity
Pretty cool, but I don't like the logo, it's hard to read. V & e have too
similar colors and the "Ven" part is too tight above each other.

------
makmanalp
My bank does this for free, and I can also withdraw the money from any of
their ATMs as cash instantly if I want.

~~~
IsaacSchlueter
Your bank lets you send payments via SMS? What's your bank? Mine doesn't do
that, I'd be interested in switching.

~~~
makmanalp
<http://www.garantibank.com/index.html> Best online banking I've seen so far
too, I think they've won awards for it.

~~~
Raphael
Home page has annoying animation. Guess there's still room for improvement.

------
jeffiel
I tried it out, it's super viral... I think it'll spread very easily, just
like Paypal did.

~~~
evandavid
That's what I thought when I signed up for Pago - an identical service which
launced in New Zealand three years ago:

<https://www.pago.co.nz/section261.aspx>

It was launched by one of the major banks in co-operation with one of the
major wireless providers. Still, it never took off. I certainly never found
myself using it. I would've thought New Zealand was a prime test market,
because we are incredibly reliant on txt messaging down here; around 85% of
the population regularly use txt messaging.

I should note that when I say 'identical', it was identical. They have since
shifted more toward online payments. It used to be solely for one-to-one
payments. In fact one of the use cases on their original marketing website was
the ability to 'split a restaurant bill'. Which is similar to the use case
from the venmo website.

------
chrisstanchak
Whoever makes mobile payments ubiquitous will make billions.

------
johnrob
There are no transaction fees?

~~~
keltecp11
100% free

------
vorador
I don't see the point here. I mean, I could pay Jenny back next time I see
her. Am I missing something ?

~~~
ruchi
There are a few things here - 1) You don't have to remember that you need to
pay. You pay instantly and be done with it. 2) Jenny may be someone you don't
often see. 3) You're away but want to pool in for a gift or celebration back
in town.

~~~
vorador
Thank you.

------
zackattack
Word.

1\. I am confused if I text a shortcode, or if I have to text that 646
bullshit?

2\. I should be able to click on step 1/step2/step3 in your animation in case
I want to review the information contained in that slide a little longer.

3\. You have to be EXPLICIT about fees on the front page.

------
keltecp11
Think about use for Political/Charity Fundraiser events... I think the product
is very beneficial.

------
kapauldo
great idea, very clever. i posted this to pikk: Thrive or Fail? Send And
Receive Credit Card Payments Through SMS Text Messages [VOTE] -
<http://www.pikk.com/297fd>

~~~
sebg
I am not sure why you would want to do this. If it is interesting, then please
discuss it here. Don't spam for another website to discuss it there.

