
A Movement to Stop the Covid-19 Pandemic - arto
https://staythefuckhome.com
======
Someone1234
Seems like focusing on blaming individuals rather than:

\- Employers don't allow telecommuting.

\- Employers with draconian sick leave policies.

\- No paid sick leave for the majority of jobs (and or strict limits).

\- Limited access to testing to know if you have Covid-19 (Vs. a common cold).
Which is significant with e.g. Walmarts new policies which ONLY allow Covid-19
paid sick leave.

Ultimately we set up a system where most people lose by default, then we
critique those people for their personal failings without a hint of irony.

~~~
ldeangelis
> _Limited access to testing to know if you have Covid-19_

This is a huge one, at least in France. A friend recently tried to get tested
because he was coughing heavily and had a fever. His doctor asked if he went
to Italy or China recently, he said no, his doctor replied "Well then you
don't have it." and that was the end of it.

~~~
jplayer01
I don't understand. How are doctors this stupid? We have obvious communal
transmission in France (and other countries). And if nobody is fucking testing
for it, the doctor can't fucking say that you can't have it. What happened to
evidence-based medicine?

~~~
kryogen1c
> How are doctors this stupid? ... the doctor can't fucking say that you can't
> have it. What happened to evidence-based medicine?

You clearly have no idea what youre talking about. When something 100x less
severe than the coronavirus happens, there is an ABSOLUTE AVALANCHE of people
calling in on the full spectrum of sickness, from psychosomatic, to actually
sick but with the wrong thing, to actually sick with the right thing but minor
cases, to people that will actually die if not seen but cant make their case
clear. The reality of the situation is that without instant, free, over-the-
phone test results, this is a reasonable response from oversaturated medical
systems.

~~~
jplayer01
Test, test, test. South Korea has tested 100.000 people. In Europe? Nobody is
doing anything. You can't respond to something when you have zero idea what
the scale is. We're literally seeing Europe stick its head in the
sand.somebody comes in with flu-like symptoms, you fucking test. Psychosomatic
doesn't matter, either you have the symptoms or you don't. And if you do, you
test, test, fucking test. Not tell people to go home, you obviously can't have
coronavirus.

The diagnostic is dead simple. Look at any health ministry of any country. It
doesn't take a medical degree to understand that if you have flu-like
symptoms, you need to be tested for the flu. And if you don't have any of the
flu strains making the rounds, test for Coronavirus. You know, exactly what SK
is able to do but somehow Europe isn't.

~~~
kryogen1c
Tests are not free, not 100% accurate, and not 100% available. The doctor you
called stupid is in control of exactly 0 of those factors, and has no effect
on europes policy.

~~~
mumblemumble
What I'd like to see doctors do differently is encourage people to treat their
illness as if it were covid-19 regardless of the test result.

If my health care provider can try to sell me antibiotics despite a negative
strep test, "just to be sure, because sometimes you get a false negative",
then they're surely not ignorant of the phenomenon where tests are less than
100% accurate. (Perhaps they're just variably aware of it, depending on what
the bean counters from the health care network's corporate office are telling
them to do. But still.) And, if you take a "better safe than sorry" attitude
regarding false negatives, then you're not too far off from realizing that not
having the test is not _that_ big of a deal, because you'd be telling people
to stay home when they're sick in either case.

~~~
kilburn
What do you think "treating their illness as if it were covid-19" means?

This is a viral illness. There is simply no treatment. You go home, rest and
eventually get through it in most cases. If you have annoying symptoms, you
try to alleviate those in the usual ways (as if it was any other cold/flu). If
you get life-threatening symptomps, you call for help and they'll take you to
the hospital (at least while they aren't completely collapsed).

What would you like the doctor to say or do here?

~~~
mumblemumble
Sorry, ambiguous language. "treat" in the general sense, not specifically in
the sense of medical treatment.

Specifically, I would like the doctor to say, "Stay the eff home and keep your
germs to yourself, sickie."

More doctors doing this would also help put pressure on employers to change
their policies. Maybe (dare I dream?) we can even get restaurants to start
giving their employees sick leave, and encouraging them to use it, instead of
requiring them to show up and germ up all the food on pain of losing their
jobs.

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ancarda
For many years now, I have - 5 times a week - left a building with a computer
and Internet access to travel for an hour or more to a building with a
computer and Internet access to talk to my colleagues - almost exclusively
over Slack and GitHub - for many hours, before traveling back to the same
building I left earlier that day. Often, I carry the computer I used
throughout the day with me.

Apparently working from home isn't going to be allowed...

Oh well.

~~~
stareatgoats
Any day now, any day now, we shall be released.

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tmountain
Great advice, but the expletive will limit its reach. Consider adding another
alternate domain so that this can be shared with friends/family whom might
find this offensive.

~~~
Aeolun
People now take offense at the word ‘fuck’? They must have a really hard life.

~~~
mcv
In the US they do. The US has a long history of censoring this and a couple of
other words.

~~~
tmountain
People aside, there are lots overly aggressive firewalls that will block any
domain with the word "fuck" in it.

~~~
mygo
bad news for the church of uckerland

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pqs
The page lacks something about how to deal with kids. That's a huge point for
those of us that have toddlers and kids at home.

~~~
livealife
As per news, coronavirus is more dangerous to elders compared children

~~~
ArnoVW
I believe what he meant to say was that if you have a 2-year old at home, it
will be difficult to work at home.

~~~
Aeolun
It’s easy to stay home, just difficult to work.

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Gravityloss
Good idea. A bit unfortunate naming.

~~~
livealife
They wanted to put it blunt. And hence such a name...

~~~
hyperbovine
"Blunt" just comes off as puerile. Why should I take you seriously when you
talk like a teenager.

~~~
happytoexplain
This is totally alien to me. I could understand - though not _relate_ \- if
you were offended, or just thought the use of the word "fuck" here was awkward
or tonally inconsistent. But "puerile" and "why should I take you seriously"
and "you talk like a teenager" is an absolutely ridiculous reaction to me.
I've honestly not met a single person in all my life who reacted like that to
a superfluous curse word.

~~~
sojournerc
This isn't superfluous... it's in the domain name. Smh

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kuu
We started to do this in Spain today and we're LATE.

Please stay at home if possible, the idea is to reduce the amount of infected
and spread the infection over time so we do not saturate the hospitals.

Don't need to panic, just do it.

------
ilogik
a better resource:
[https://www.flattenthecurve.com/](https://www.flattenthecurve.com/)

------
jpg_converter
I'm curious about the 2% death rate number. How can we rely on this number if
test kits are in such limited supply and the rate of "Severe" symptoms is only
15%? Is the death rate only calculated out of known cases? do we only know
about the severe cases?

~~~
mygo
They do not say death rate, but they do mention the case fatality rate, which
is exactly what it sounds like, and as you have described.

It’s the number of people who have died, of the known cases. Not everyone who
is infected becomes a case, for one reason or another. Maybe their symptoms
did not arouse enough concern, or maybe testing was refused to them since they
didn’t fit an erroneously narrow list of testing requirements.

Another thing to keep in mind is that people calculating the CFR from public
data on a napkin typically don’t distinguish between survivors and those who
just haven’t died yet. So the other side of the CFR (the people who haven’t
died) tends to include both the known survivors and will-be-survivors, as well
as the people who are in the ICU hanging on for dear life and could be dead
tomorrow.

For this reason, unless it explicitly states that it’s only counting survivors
and deaths, the CFR is more reliable once the spread has began to decline,
when there are fewer new cases each day than the day before.

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jacknews
What is the point of this?

The tone will not accomplish anything

the content is already known, albeit most of the points are good advice

no new ideas are proposed

stats (morbidity, % critical, etc) are still not stable or very helpful at
this stage

second-order (let alone deeper) consequences are not discussed at all.

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mcv
My work (client rather than employer) has divided all teams in two, where team
A is allowed to come to the office this week, but has to work from home next
week, while team B telecommutes this week and can come to the office next
week.

Despite being in team A, I'm not allowed to come to the office because my son
has a cold that's already cured. But without a negative test, I still have to
telecommute for two weeks.

They seem to be a bit more paranoid than your average health expert, but I
guess it's better to be safe than sorry. I will definitely miss seeing the
other half of my team, though.

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dhhwrongagain
Probably 100K people max will see this website and the audience is probably
skewed toward people who are already well educated on covid-19 precautions

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bb123
Anybody know if there is a safe for work version of this? I would like to
share it with my colleagues but the choice of language means I can't.

~~~
beeforpork
Not the same, but maybe what you want:

[https://www.flattenthecurve.com/](https://www.flattenthecurve.com/)

To avoid TL;DR, search for boxes with green or red background centered text --
that's recommendations of behaviour.

~~~
bb123
Thanks, that is a really excellent link.

------
sebazzz
Corona doesn't stop. Many of us will get infected and many of us [in a
relative sense] will be fine after fighting the virus. The thing we need to
focus on is making sure the contagion happens at a speed so it doesn't
overload our hospitals. German counselor Merkel said that probably 70% will
get infected, so we should focus on having too many people infected at the
same time.

------
pgrote
Quick question ... wouldn't a more appropriate response be to self quarantine
those age groups most at risk?

~~~
robjan
People who are less at risk of complications have the same / more (because
they survive and are more active) risk of spreading the illness.

------
WhyNotHugo
While people in tech can easily do all this, not everyone can. Eg: supermarket
employees can. Much like pretty much anyone who works on-site.

> Do not use public transportation if not absolutely necessary.

Yeah, cause everyone lives within walking distance of their jobs.

------
mark_l_watson
My wife and I are perfectly situated to simply stay at home. We live in a
small town in the mountains (which unfortunately gets 1.5 million tourist
visitors a year, many international visitors).

We always talked about staying at home and just talking with friends and
family via FaceTime or phone during a pandemic. The problem is that I
volunteer at the local food bank and my wife teaches in a reading program, so
for us, STFH means that we are walking away from obligations.

------
jpster
What is the path for rebooting society after all this? In the absence of a
vaccine, what would be the “all clear” signal?

------
nathan_young
If you see any tech tools or data please add them here:

Coronavirustechhandbook.com

------
livealife
Very pleased to see developers trying to contribute to the community to their
capacity. But, I am curious to know the impact of this #StayTheFuckHome
movement.

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the_70x
total nonsense opinion

~~~
jpster
Please expand on this.

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crimsonalucard
>Disclaimer: The content of this website does not constitute medical advice.
The information provided above is meant to be a suggestion for concerned
individuals to follow a loose set of guidelines based on best practices and
anecdotal evidence to protect themselves and their loved ones. There is no
guarantee or scientific evidence that following the mentioned guidelines will
lead to a reduction in new infections or even stop the COVID-19 epidemic.
There is also no guarantee that following these guidelines will reduce the
risk of getting infected with SARS-CoV-2 or any other viral or bacterial
contagion. All information provided on this website is given with the best
intent and will to provide factual information. In no event shall the website
operators be held liable for any claim, damages or other liabilities. If you
have concerns or comments about the information provided on this website,
please write to inquiry@staythefuckhome.com.

Here's a guy who's an expert on COVID-19 because he reads the internet. If you
have symptoms that feel like death I am telling you to discount this persons'
advice, get yourself to the doctor because you may very well be dying.

Also a site that's just better:

[https://www.zocdoc.com/about/coronavirus-
covid-19-2/](https://www.zocdoc.com/about/coronavirus-covid-19-2/)

Here's the advice from this site:

>Contact your primary care provider before going to their office. Be sure to
let them know if you’ve been in close contact with someone who has
coronavirus, or if you’ve recently traveled to an area where the virus is
spreading, whether or not you have symptoms. If you don’t have a doctor to
contact, you can also reach out to your local board of health.

^^that up there is proper advice.

~~~
mnw21cam
> ...get yourself to the doctor...

Every single bit of advice we have been handed out the last few weeks is
trying to get the message out - _Do not_ physically go to your doctor if you
suspect you have this illness. Do not turn up at hospital. Stay at home and
telephone the doctors to inform them of what you think you have, and to get
advice on what to do next. If you are feeling OK, telephone the non-emergency
numbers. If you are feeling like you're about to die, telephone the emergency
numbers.

~~~
crimsonalucard
Where on the site does it say telephone your doctor to determine whether or
not you should go? Nothing. Horrible site.

