

Zed Shaw: "rails-core ripped off the idea for Campfire from NextApp Echo2 ChatClient Demo" - rob
http://www.zedshaw.com/blog/2008-04-09.html

======
axod
It's a log of recent chat, with an input bar at the bottom.

This is fast becoming a farce.

~~~
Tichy
But can't you see, the simplicity is the genius of it. Everybody can create a
complicated chat tool, only few can create a simple chat tool. ;-)

------
luigi
Eh, looks just like IRC to me:

<http://demo.nextapp.com/ChatClient/app>

~~~
pius
I think that's the point. :)

~~~
luigi
This is IRC-like chat in a web browser. Campfire is much, much more than that.

~~~
sanswork
Could you explain how it is more?

~~~
luigi
True transcript history (not just the last 15 messages). Searchable
transcripts and file uploads. Inline image preview. View Paste link generated
when code snippets are posted. Invitation mechanism and permission settings.
Better U/I.

~~~
SwellJoe
I'm confused...Every IRC client I've used since the Amiga days had pretty much
everything you've described (except image preview and maybe the "View Paste
link generated" thing that I can't parse into anything sensible in my head).
And all of them had/have a very similar UI to Campfire.

I'm not saying Campfire isn't useful (I don't know, I've never used it), but
it sounds like you're basing your IRC comparison on a client that has long
been lost to history. Modern (as in less than 15 years old) IRC clients have
great transcript support, file transfers, and easy to use permissions (you
have to have channel moderator privileges to use them, but they are definitely
easy).

~~~
derefr
I think the "paste link" thing means that long messages, that would otherwise
appear as floods, are auto-converted into links to auto-submitted snippets of
the same text on a Pastebin-like site.

------
hunterjrj
Zed Shaw is going to spontaneously combust. Mark my words.

~~~
neilc
One can only hope...

------
dgabriel
I find his shtick to be almost unreadable. There may be a salient point in
there, but I'm having trouble wading through the profanity & flaming naked
girls.

To each his or her own, I suppose.

~~~
rrhyne
The flamming naked girls are the point.

~~~
dgabriel
It's hard to see how, but I'm clearly not his target audience.

------
Readmore
He really drives me nuts. I don't know the man, so maybe it's just an Internet
persona thing, but his writing just really rubs me the wrong way.

~~~
ambition
Having spent a few days with him in person, I would say that it's 80% Internet
persona. He's a good guy. He's a strongly opinionated guy with an
overdeveloped sense of justice, but he's smart, kind, and not nearly as
egotistical as he seems online.

But that's just me.

~~~
Readmore
Thanks, that's good to know.

------
urlwolf
Have you read the specs of his "utu" protocol? (check the "saving the internet
through hate" link: <http://savingtheinternetwithhate.com/design.html>).
Coming from the man who coded mongrel, I know he understands protocols (at
least http).

I think he is doing remarkable stuff.

------
axod
Call me a cynic, but I'm not sure these would stand on their own if it weren't
for the language/framework/platform they trumpet.

Would anyone care about campfire if it was written in say php? I doubt it.

------
anewaccountname
>I personally think if you can’t think in a few languages on a project then
your a dumbass

Wait, whose "a dumbass"?

------
quellhorst
Google should just release the source of the chat app.

Zed, dude, will you ever chill out?.

~~~
tx
Why would we want him to chill out? So we can enjoy yet another pointless fake
tech "blog" by yet another always-politically-correct faceless programmer that
reads like an extended version of his resume?

I think we have enough of Rails "blogs" or PHP "blogs" filled with nothing but
technical documentation with "Digg it!" slapped on top. Every day (even on YC
news) I see 2-3 "blog" posts that have nothing in them but _"to code, you'll
need an editor and a debugger"_ or _"there are two types of investors: angels
and VSs"_ from yet another cubicle worm who feels like bloggin.

Nah, thanks. I'd rather have Zed and a few others who still have guts to write
what's on their minds and sign it with their real names.

~~~
quellhorst
Have you read <http://www.zedshaw.com/rants/rails_is_a_ghetto.html> where Zed
mentions being homeless? I worked with him on a project a few years ago and I
can't say it was pleasurable. He could benefit from chilling out.

------
dboyd
I thought Campfire was written by 37Signals, not the rails core team.

------
st3fan
Go Zed!

------
sabat
So what? Even if they did -- that's how the world works. Take ideas,
ostensibly improve them, and put 'em out there. Witness the computer you're in
front of right now. What part of it and its OS came from Xerox PARC? The idea
did.

~~~
icky
He is not genuinely complaining about their ripping-off of anything; he's
pointing out the ignorance and/or hypocrisy of these items:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=158029>

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=158488>

------
mhb
_"your a dumbass"_ ?!?!

~~~
keating
He certainly sounds authoritative to me.

