

Ask HN: moving to US - morbidkk

Am based in India and working at the startup. Startup culture in India is lot different that in US. Efforts/Returns ratio is inadequate. Also I feel; am not the founder material yet and I no longer want to work at big firms. Its bizarre and I couldn't manage to get returns on the work I had done there despite performing well. I want to move to US to work for any of the good startups. What I need to do to achieve this? Am bit confused and onsite/H1-B job I want to do is not what most of the folks from India do at big firms there.<p>am sure I'll get genuine answers here. thanks for reading this.
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patio11
If I were you, I'd stay exactly where I was, open a small business selling
software on the Internet to rich Westerners, quit my dayjob as soon as I
covered my previous salary, and then expand your little sideline into
something as big as you want to go.

You may feel you are not founder material yet. Break that down into exactly
what you don't have going for you. Then, learn it as you go. Marketing, for
example, really isn't black magic. Pricing is not black magic.

(If I can make a quick comment based on my previous professional dealings with
Indian companies: "We're the cheapest possible price!" is a terrible, terrible
way to position yourself. However, the fact that you have the cheapest
possible living standards among similarly situated software firms means you
will hit ramen profitability, or curry profitability if you'd rather, much
faster than the rest of us will when charging the same price. That is sort of
nice.)

Take this and all other advice (including the advice you're relying on to make
your determination that you are not founder material) with a grain of salt.

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plinkplonk
why was this downvoted to zero? This is great advice! (I am Indian have lived
in the USA , have no plans to move back on an H1 - the long waiting period for
the GC isn't worth it - but if I were, this advice makes a lot of sense as an
alternative)

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keyist
This image enumerates all the possibilities:
[http://www.reason.com/images/07cf533ddb1d06350cf1ddb5942ef5a...](http://www.reason.com/images/07cf533ddb1d06350cf1ddb5942ef5ad.jpg)

Chances are that you'll have to go the H1B route. Which ain't pretty, because
most employers automatically ignore job applications with those dreaded
letters.

You'll save yourself a bunch of time and trouble by researching the companies
that do employ on H1B. Meebo is one: [http://gigaom.com/2008/07/05/meebos-jen-
how-to-find-hard-to-...](http://gigaom.com/2008/07/05/meebos-jen-how-to-find-
hard-to-find-talent/) .

Also, mention the need for H1B as early as possible in the application process
(cover letter is a good place), so that you don't ace the interviews only to
get rejected for that reason. Another possibility is to offer to pay the legal
costs of H1B applications (in the region of US$5000).

~~~
morbidkk
thanks the image helps

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ronak_sutaria
I think I can somewhat relate to where you are coming from. I did my
Bachelor's in Engg from Mumbai in 2001 and then went to the US - did my MS
there, dabbled in Google SoC, worked in a Sunnyvale startup, lived in SF for
three years and have just returned back for good to Mumbai last week after
living away from here for eight years.

The plan for returning here was to start something of own.

One of my key reasons for returning was the cumbersome H1B/GC process. After
living in the US for five+ years I was still three years away from getting a
GC. And this is hugely limiting if you want to work for a real early-stage
startup which is where the real excitement is.. and they can rarely sponsor
H1Bs.

There is an article by Paul Graham on Founders Visa -
<http://www.paulgraham.com/foundervisa.html>. Honestly, until this becomes are
reality I would say that having a H1B and looking for work with a real YC kind
of startup is not really feasible and rarely works out.

I do not have answers for the questions you have asked above. But I can share
some of my experiences of working full-time in Mumbai, Bangalore and the SF
Bay Area.

One thing you have got right for the startup mindset is your desire not to
work in the kind of onsite/services jobs that the "big" IT firms from India
provide. If you feel you would like to explore some creative/innovative
technology start-up type of work there is a good chance you'll have to form
your own team and take the leap. While I agree with you that the start-up
culture in India is different - I'm not sure I can completely grasp what you
mean by efforts/returns ratio is inadequate. "Returns" is very subjective.

I think if you work on some of the strengths of having a start-up in India but
with global reach and applications - then there is no reason why you would not
be able to get adequate returns as well as the kind of satisfaction.. if that
is also something that you are looking for.

I'm available on email to discuss this further..

~~~
vineet7kumar
"I think if you work on some of the strengths of having a start-up in India
but with global reach and applications ..." - Can you please elaborate on
these strengths of having a start-up in India (apart from lower costs of
living)?

~~~
ronak_sutaria
well - for one 1\. You (the founder of a startup in India) would have a better
understanding of the Indian technology consumer market and the application of
your idea to the Indian scenario than a tech company which is originated
elsewhere. 2\. You are in the same time-zone as 1 billion other people. If you
have ways or means of crowd-sourcing any tasks needed for your startup - where
better to crowd-source than here (of course this depends on how effective are
you at crowd-sourcing) 3\. If you can spot an opportunity in a crisis - then
this place offers you the ideal basecamp to look for those
crisis/opportunities.

I could go on.

I guess at the end of the day it all depends on the problem you are looking to
solve or the "big idea". For e.g. If your startup is about making it easier
for suburban residents to interact with their neighbors or promote
neighborhood activities - Mumbai would be the wrong place to start that
startup. But if you are looking at implementing infrastructure technologies
for dense urban setups than Napa Valley, CA wouldn't be ideal.

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jacquesm
Funny, a little ways below is a thread about people moving _out_ of the US in
order to start a startup so they can decrease their cost of living...

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=751742>

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swombat
If I were you I'd take advantage of the fact that you're in India to start a
local start-up. As others mentioned, your costs will be lower. Not only that,
but you may be able to spot opportunities which have already been filled in
the US, and "port" those solutions to India successfully.

At the very least, you should be able to make yourself enough money that you
can then move to the US without worrying about getting a job.

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tarouter
I think patio11 has some excellent advice. On top of that, why not partner
with someone who is already in US? That way you can have benefits of (one co-
founder) being in India and benefits of (other co-founder) being in US. I live
in US and I would love to explore options to partner someone in India. Being
Indian myself, I know that there are some business models which have very good
potential and require presence in India and US both. e.g. selling westerns
clothes (with traditional india designs) made in india over web. I have other
ideas too, some geeky, some not-so-geeky. If you are interested, send me a one
liner on 'my HN user name' at gmail dot com. we can share some ideas and may
be collaborate if we hit it off.

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chrisgo
You can try for an E5 Visa (investor) -- the companies here are not exactly
high tech but you need $500k

[http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/smallbusiness/0907/galle...](http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/smallbusiness/0907/gallery.eb_5_visa_cash_without_borders.smb/index.html)

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dejv
How about O1 visas (emporary workers and trainees: extraordinary ability or
achievement)? Any experience on how hard is to get one?

~~~
petercooper
The only person I'm aware of in the tech field (though I'm sure there are
_many_ ) who got into the US on an O-1 visa is David Heinemeier Hansson (Rails
/ 37signals).

The criteria for O-1 are particularly tough - after all, you have to prove
you're extraordinary and world class in your field. I suspect David's
application was based significantly around him being the Google/O'Reilly
Hacker of the Year 2005. You need to be at the top of your industry (or be
talked about as if you were) to get one of those babies..

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makmanalp
I've only heard of mid to large sized companies sponsoring H1Bs, but startups
rarely. Maybe they don't have time for the red tape?

~~~
Xixi
I don't know much about the details of H1Bs or implications. But when I was
working in the United States (2005 to 2007) I was holding a J1 then "upgraded"
to an H1B.

To move to the United States the J1 is the best, in my opinion : nearly no
taxes, affordable (~$1,000). But it's limited to 18 months, once in your life.

As for H1B, two problems (for startups) :

\- you need a lawyer, and it's a bit expensive. Count at least k$2~3 in
legals.

\- you need to pay a decent wage. For a software engineer I don't think you
can go anywhere below $5,400 a month (it depends on the state, that's in
NY...). Anyway it's nowhere in the "surviving on ramen" ballpark.

~~~
rms
What happens if you are working for a startup on an H1B and it goes out of
business?

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Xixi
You have around 1 month to find a new job, or you go back home.

This is often cited as the main reason why H1B holders can't negociate wages
as high as permanent residents, and end up being paid much less : they can't
quit easily without taking quite huge risks, and their bosses knows it...

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sdave
hii, i am also based in india. i wonder have you considered working in good US
firms(google, amazon et. al.)in india itself. the reason i am asking is why
one has to move to US if those companies have a presence here(hoping same
culture,work as done in US ).

~~~
vineet7kumar
Work culture in India sure is way different and sadly not quite
entrepreneurial in nature in fact non-professional to some extent :( I am not
talking about some particular company but the general work culture here.

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hajrice
You know, my friend....one thing you could do is marry an american girl? haha

