
Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities - baylearn
https://en.mehrnews.com/news/150023/Women-make-up-54-of-new-students-entering-Iranian-universities
======
Yuval_Halevi
Two months ago I went to a journey called the 'Mongol Rally' which is
basically a race when you need to drive from the Czech Republic to Mongolia in
a shitty car

Because I'm from Israel my team couldn't get into Iran but other teams got
into Iran and all of them were extremely surprised.

Iranians know how to welcome tourists, they were extremely friendly, the food
is delicious, the country is beautiful, and many people are open-minded.

The problem in Iran is their politicians and the image created around the
radical Iranian regime

~~~
nabla9
More I have studied international relations literacy, more surprised I am of
how Iran is misrepresented in public.

Iranian leadership is not crazy group of religious lunatics. Ayatollahs are
very conservative group of politicians who use religion for political control.
There is nothing there that can't be explained by normal power politics. They
have goals and constraints. Their main goal internationally is to become
regional power with recognized influence. They see themselves as protectors of
the Shia Muslims. Destroying Israel is not any of those goals. It's more of a
cynical tool to keep connections into into Shia Arabs and Palestinians.

For the Shia living outside Iran (mainly Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen) Iran is
big brother that helps, but is often too controlling for their taste. The West
has a tendency to see all Shia groups as mindless Iranian puppets. In reality
it's the function of the situation and options they have. Iraqi Shia leaders
have established connection with the US and are playing US and Iran for their
own goals. Houthis in Yemen are not Iranian puppets. They have their own fight
for their own reasons. Iran is just the only one to help them.

Many IR experts see that there is possibility for "the great bargain" with
Iran. It would include recognizing Iran's position as big regional power and
deal with Israel. It would also diminish the position of Saudi Arabia. The
conflict is between Saudi Arabia and Iran over influence is real.

~~~
TulliusCicero
> Iranian leadership is not crazy group of religious lunatics. Ayatollahs are
> very conservative group of politicians who use religion for political
> control.

It's not the motivation, it's the use. From a classical liberal western
perspective, the government explicitly using religion for control _is_ being a
crazy religious lunatic.

We're talking about a country where Islam is the official religion, renouncing
it is illegal, and so is blasphemy against it. For Gods' sake, to apply to
university you have to pass an exam on Islamic theology! With that as a
baseline, you hardly need to go any further before you look like a completely
kooky religious crazyman.

~~~
nabla9
Everything you say applies to Saudi Arabia.

There is no justification to not having Iran as an ally instead of Saudi
Arabia or Pakistan.

~~~
TulliusCicero
> Everything you say applies to Saudi Arabia.

Yes, Saudi Arabia is also full of religious crazies. Anyone who pays attention
to the news knows about Wahhabism, and the morality/religious police there.

------
thinkingemote
The Gender-Equality Paradox in STEM

[https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/095679761774171...](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797617741719?journalCode=pssa)

"...life-quality pressures in less gender-equal countries promote girls’ and
women’s engagement with STEM subjects."

The above paper didn't include Iran (I think?) but Tunisia, UAE, Algeria and
Turkey all had the most proportion of women in STEM and the lowest gender
equality out of all the countries.

They are probably entering university not because Iran is friendly towards
women and girls but because their society is unfriendly towards them. Iran
certainly has a very low Global Gender Gap index. In the bottom 5 countries in
the world.
[http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_GGGR_2017.pdf](http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_GGGR_2017.pdf)

~~~
curiousgal
I can only speak for Tunisia but the reason women go into STEM is purely
economical. STEM jobs pay the most.

The way I see it, a lack of women in STEM is a symptom of a healthy economy,
who wouldn't want to not deal with spaghetti code if money was not an issue?

~~~
tasogare
> The way I see it, a lack of women in STEM is a symptom of a healthy economy

Exactly. What is observable in Japan, where a decent job can still provide for
a whole family, is that more than half of women choose to be stay-at-home mom.
This is not a plot of "the Patriarchy" but something that make sense for them.

On the other side, the current trend in the West to promote women and
foreigner work under the diversity meme could be reasonably interpreted as
scheme from the big companies to lower wages even further.

~~~
greggman2
is that the entire story? there is a pole every year whether a man could
handle having a woman as a boss. In Japan it's still 70-80% say "no". Many
Japanese women might choose to stay home but many effectively have few other
choices

more anecdata: a Japanese friend of mine moved back to Japan (Tokyo) after 10
years in the states to raise her 2 kids. She tried to get a job and was told
"go home and take care of your kids" by several companies. She moved back to
the USA after realizing how much she no longer belongs.

note I've heard the idea the as a society gets more prosperous women seem to
choose less STEM options. That might be true but I don't think Japan is a good
example.

Maybe China?

~~~
Double_a_92
I guess the issue for those japanese companies was not that they don't want
women, or think that women should only be moms. It's that she was indeed a mom
that _had_ to take care of their kids (I assume since you didn't mention any
stay-at-home partner). In that situation she was not able to wageslave her
life away for the company.

~~~
imtringued
Are you saying they didn't want to burden a mother with an awful job?

~~~
Double_a_92
Not that they didn't want but that they couldn't. If your employee got kids to
look after, they won't realistically stay in the office for unnecessary extra
hours.

------
quotz
Actually, most of Western opinion about Iran is misguided and plain wrong.
Iran is really not as terrible as all the propaganda about it. In fact its
quite much like Turkey, except the politicians are better and its not as
corrupt.

~~~
yyyk
Iran bans females from attending sports events and imposes mandatory hijab
(e.g. [0]), Turkey does not.

You can oppose Western policy if you like, but lets talk about the country's
policies as they really are.

[0] [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/10/iranian-
female...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/10/iranian-female-
football-fan-who-self-immolated-outside-court-dies)

~~~
fluffything
Is Turkey really that much progressive than Iran ?

Turkey is quite connected to Germany even though many don't want to admit
that, so I would agree that, superficially at least, it looks more western-
ish.

But IIRC a couple of years ago there was a coup attempt in Turkey, lots of
journalists, academics, judges, etc. were instantaneously thrown into jail,
etc. So I'm unsure how much of that "western-look" that Turkey has is real and
how much is just a facade. Is there democracy in Turkey? Is there freedom of
opinion? Freedom of press? Religious freedom?

I'm not arguing whether Iran is better or worse, and I'm not suggesting that
we should only measure both countries in, e.g., LGBT rights, but while Turkey
might not be exactly Iran, I actually put closer to Iran than to its Greek
neighbor in the "progressive" scale.

~~~
yyyk
Turkey is getting worse and worse, but there's still no outright overt
enforcement of religious norms and a secular opposition is still allowed to
run in meaningful elections. Closer to Iran than Greece? hmm.. sure. But it's
not there just yet.

------
daliusd
I was in Iran last year so let's give some perspective why this metric alone
is useless:

1\. Before university boys and girls learn in separate schools.

2\. After university women have almost zero chances for career. It is more
probably that they will end up being house wives.

I doubt that this has changed in a year. I have not checked my facts - that's
impression from speaking with open minded Iranian families (and we have met
various families).

Basically, university is one of the rare chances for women in Iran not to
marry their cousin.

~~~
skrebbel
I was born in 1983 in the Netherlands. My mom, and all my friends' moms, were
housewives. About half of these moms were university educated or comparably.
All their daughters now have proper jobs.

Sounds like Iran is roughly in the same place now, which I assume is a big
improvement over some decades ago. Just give it another generation.

Anecdotally, I've tought some CS classes at the local university, to a highly
mixed crowd. The Iranian students, every year, were somehow all female, and
they were invariably among the top of their class. I'm going to be very
surprised if these particular women turn out to become housewives.

~~~
NeedMoreTea
If you were to look at Iran before the revolution, you'd find them as liberal
as most and more so than many parts of the West - the Catholic nations - in
the same era. So it's only improvement if you're looking at post-revolutionary
Iran. Extend timeline a little further back and it's a giant leap backwards.

~~~
skitout
I think I read somewhere that revolution actually boosted girl literacy and
girl attendance to school and high school because most of Iran outside big
cities was very conservative and did not trust secular school...

I think there were and there is huge difference between some area in Tehran
and different places in the countryside

~~~
NeedMoreTea
General literacy is very different to university level education. Anyway,
wasn't parent talking of what options are there after the qualification? To
get a career with that BSc, or become a housewife...

That there is difference between capital and countryside is not surprising.
You'll find that in every nation except city states, throughout history -
London compared to the rural parts of Yorkshire or the Scottish Islands.
Washington DC compared to rural Ohio or Mississippi. Actually these days,
London compared to everywhere else in the UK.

------
enjoyyourlife
Working link:[https://en.mehrnews.com/news/150023/Women-make-up-54-of-
new-...](https://en.mehrnews.com/news/150023/Women-make-up-54-of-new-students-
entering-Iranian-universities)

For comparison, the University of California system is 52% female [1] and the
California State University is 56% female [2].

[1][https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/infocenter/fall-
enrol...](https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/infocenter/fall-enrollment-
glance)

[2][http://www.calstate.edu/as/stat_reports/2018-2019/fage01.htm](http://www.calstate.edu/as/stat_reports/2018-2019/fage01.htm)

~~~
adventured
Nationally it's about 56% of students at university are women.

Aug 2017, The Atlantic: "Where men once went to college in proportions far
higher than women—58 percent to 42 percent as recently as the 1970s—the ratio
has now almost exactly reversed."

"This fall, women will comprise more than 56 percent of students on campuses
nationwide, according to the U.S. Department of Education. Some 2.2 million
fewer men than women will be enrolled in college this year. And the trend
shows no sign of abating. By 2026, the department estimates, 57 percent of
college students will be women."

[https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/08/why-
me...](https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/08/why-men-are-the-
new-college-minority/536103/)

------
harperlee
I suppose this is being upvoted as it goes against western preconceptions of
irani society and women rights over there. When reading it, I remembered I
visited Doha earlier this year and I was told that many more women than men go
to university there, because for men it is vastly more likely to be socially
acceptable to study abroad than for women. So that may also be playing a role
here (or not; qatar is quite smaller, richer and more open than Iran)

On the other hand in Europe also more women than men are entering university.

~~~
daliusd
That's not the case with Iran. If you want to study abroad as Iranian you must
either spend 10000€ (or something like that) to get permission to leave
country or spent 3 years in the army. I'm simplifying with 10000€ but idea is
that Iranians with their small salaries can not allow that. Joining military
is not an option as well for some.

------
johnchristopher
I have this vivid pictures in my mind of Iranian women attending universities,
becoming doctors, lawyers, etc. from before the 80's. I wasn't born yet but I
always have that contrast in the back of my mind when hearing news from Iran.

------
distant_hat
Not all Islamic societies are against educating women. Another thing that
sometimes happens in deeply patriarchal societies is that women are freer to
engage in non-earning pursuits. So they study because they don't have to worry
about supporting families but they wouldn't be allowed to work later on. It is
also seen in India, e.g., where lots of women study but gender participation
in the workforce has actually dropped in recent years because it isn't
acceptable for them to work.

~~~
apta
This is not a religious issue. As a matter of fact, Islam is pro-education
regardless of gender. What we see from the likes of Taliban or AlQaeda and
their likes is completely anti-Islamic in many ways.

------
mehrdadn
It used to be 70% in STEM, now it's 49% (edited to clarify):
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/amyguttman/2015/12/09/set-to-
ta...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/amyguttman/2015/12/09/set-to-take-over-
tech-70-of-irans-science-and-engineering-students-are-women/)

~~~
csomar
No. From the article

> 70% of of Iran's science and engineering students are women

This article talk about all universities and all fields. Not just science and
engineering.

------
sasasassy
I've heard the theory that in countries where women are more dependent, like
Muslim countries, they have much higher levels of enrolment exactly to be able
to escape their dependency on male family members. Similarly in poorer
countries, like India and ex-Soviet republics, the enrolment for the sciences
versus arts is larger than the rest of the world.

~~~
TulliusCicero
At least in the US there are substantially more women in university than men:
[https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/08/why-
me...](https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/08/why-men-are-the-
new-college-minority/536103/)

> Where men once went to college in proportions far higher than women—58
> percent to 42 percent as recently as the 1970s—the ratio has now almost
> exactly reversed.

> This fall, women will comprise more than 56 percent of students on campuses
> nationwide, according to the U.S. Department of Education. Some 2.2 million
> fewer men than women will be enrolled in college this year. And the trend
> shows no sign of abating. By 2026, the department estimates, 57 percent of
> college students will be women.

Not sure how it is in other Western countries though.

------
sajithdilshan
This news made my day. I hope this would be the norm in the whole world in
next few decades. Especially in developing countries and whole middle east.

------
babayega2
I wish it was the same in my African country. Among the things that can make
our population slow down a little (5.70 births per woman in 2016), higher
education for women is the efficient one. In high school, girls where the
majority but in after that ... they are in a drastic minority.

------
grimskin
Why there are papers on the floor near each table on the photo in the article?

~~~
stunt
Looking into their faces, Most of them are waiting, and some of them are
trying to read those papers. So I assume there is an exam and those are
questions and the the exam has not started yet when they took this photo.
Probably they are only allowed to pick them up once exam starts.

