
Ask HN: Remote developers with a spouse/kids, where do you live? - TbobbyZ
I&#x27;ve just scored my first 100% remote developer job making $150k a year. My wife is a full-time parent. We have two kids that are under 4 and currently live in Los Angeles. I&#x27;m over the high cost of living, crowds, smog, and have a feeling that we should move to save money, but I&#x27;m not sure where.<p>What do you like&#x2F;dislike about where you live?<p>Where would you live if you could? Why?
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scruffyherder
China, close to family and side business opertiunities. I got a night time
support gig.

Even with kids, as we approach summer time, it's time to travel! None of this
2 week crap, take the full 2-3 months. Rent place via air-bnb and go live
somewhere else, and see if you like it. I just always have a hotel for the
first couple days when I arrive just in case of any SNAFU with airbnb, never
go cheap on internet, and always have multiple ways of getting online.

Remember internet now isn't some 'nice to have' thing, if it's down you aren't
billing, and if you aren't billing you are just throwing money out the window.
I have 3 cell phones, each with a 4g+ chip from a different carrier, and I
paid the extra cash to get a business grade internet hookup, because I want
that 24x7x8 response SLA.

The best part, of course is the absolute freedom, the worst part can be the
social isolation. I've found using shared office space from time to time being
okay, or living somewhere more... bohemian than the typical urban environment
a nice escape. My kids are 4 & 2, but they start kindergarden at 3 in China.

It's a big world, and a small world. Get passports, travel, see the world. If
your wife is up to homeschooling then you can be free to go wherever you want
to go, as long as they have iternet.

~~~
TbobbyZ
Are you from China? I'm American, and doing this would be completely out of
the norm for my culture.

~~~
rahimnathwani
"...close to family..."

"Are you from China?"

Probably.

~~~
TbobbyZ
My family is from Europe. I've never been there. Grown up in America my whole
life. Is it possible to have family living in a country you are not from?
Yes..

~~~
rahimnathwani
Replying to your pre-edit comment ("Growing up in America my whole life, it
would be nuts to move there.'):

I moved to China when I was 35. Before that I had always lived within 10km of
where I was born (except for some years at university, which was 100km away).
I am not ethnically Chinese. I had one acquaintance in Beijing. Whether or not
my decision was 'nuts' is just a matter of perspective/mindset.

"Is it possible to have family living in a country you are not from? Yes.."

I didn't say it wasn't possible. But it's very very very rare for someone who
is not Chinese to move to China to be near family. Why? Because 90% of
foreigners who live in China don't know whether they'll be here 2 years from
now. So it wouldn't make sense for their family members to move to China to be
near them (except for a spouse/SO of course).

~~~
scruffyherder
Yes the typical English teacher is here on some "exotic dumplings tour", or
just made a mistake thinking that anime is from here...

But my family started going back and forth in the 1800's out here. The real
shame is that of the land that is worth anything was sold for next to nothing
long before my parents were born.

I know I'm not typical, but really anyone can do it.

------
rahimnathwani
Wow. I just looked at your submission history, and if I'm reading correctly,
you got your first programming job just over 2 years ago, after studying part-
time while supporting a family. And you increased your salary from 35k to 150k
in about 2 years.

This would be impressive even for someone who is single. But even more
impressive to do it with kids to take care of.

Wow!

~~~
TbobbyZ
Thanks! I think my first employer severely underpaid me, which is why I jumped
so quickly. Also, having a wife and kids to support, that really puts a flame
to your feet to work hard.

~~~
ddorian43
Does your work support dynamic timezones ? Or you may end up working 2nd/3rd
shifts ?

~~~
TbobbyZ
It's all currently in one time zone thankfully.

~~~
ddorian43
So you're not very free to move ? Like only +-2 hours ?

My idea would be something like EU (GR,AL,ES) and live like a prince. You high
wage will make it possible to buy time, like housekeeper etc.

Probably do the same in pricier EU countries.

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jdgiese
I work at a fully remote company and live with my spouse on Manhattan (the
upper west side to be precise). I take walks through Central Park everyday and
frequently work at a few of the different public libraries.

I love living in a place with so many people, great museums, and great
restaurants. It’s very walkable and I love the subways. I meet many
interesting people at coffee shops and in the park.

The taxes are a high but overall it is cheaper than I expected.

------
d_p
I live in WA state and really just get to WFH when I want to. Many of my team
members are full time remote though and there are many wonderful things about
WA.

Seattle (where I live) is pretty expensive now.

But living on one of the islands (Bainbridge, Vashon, etc.) could be wonderful
(better cost of living, access to beautiful nature, good schools, small
community vibe).

Bellingham is lovely and has a university in town and also in a really
beautiful part of Washington with access to lakes, Puget Sound, mountains, and
so on. It's also right by I5 and Canada is not far away.

If you noticed the running theme is if you love nature, water, and mountains
and want to share that with your kids consider WA.

WA state doesn't have state income tax for now, and I've loved the 10 years
I've spent here.

Oh yeah, and I guess Portland, OR is cool too. Also pretty, and a happy new
more low key than Seattle.

~~~
burger_moon
Vancouver WA is also a good compromise, and if I can get a remote position I
would strongly consider moving down there from Seattle. Still a WA resident so
you pay no state income tax. Houses are quite affordable compared to Seattle.
Close driving distance to Portland. Oregon has no sales tax. It's a bit
flatter down there than Bellingham but still quite nice and lots to do within
reasonable driving distance.

------
atmosx
I work as a remote SRE from a town in Northern Greece. I would advise you to
take a look at Crete (Greece).

Preferred place is Chania, but if you're going to _cheap_ you can find cheaper
right outside the old city center, especially if you're going to rent for a
year.

The good things:

\- Half a year is summertime \- The food is superb \- The canyons are amazing
\- Many seashores are amazing \- You're close to the sea everywhere, very
strong boost for your your family's immune system \- You can live easily with
less than ~40k/year \- Ppl are accustomed to foreigners and very easy to
befriend

You can find specific info about ppl working remotes all over the world here:
[https://nomadlist.com/?ref=remoteok](https://nomadlist.com/?ref=remoteok) (no
affiliation)

~~~
jlelonm
"You're close to the sea everywhere, very strong boost for your your family's
immune system"

Why is that?

~~~
imhoguy
I think the parent meant overall benefits of the location: low polution on the
island, iodine from sea around and fresh seafood and vitamin D boost with lots
of sunny days.

------
quickthrower2
I'm from Sydney, Australia. I am not remote, but I like the idea of grabbing a
US salary ($150k a year = AU$200k a year, let assume AU$220-AU$240k contract
rate with no benefits, then I can cover my superannuation too).

Compare that to a similar Sydney dev salary, for an experienced dev, AU$140k
would be towards the high end. So a 50% salary increase AND work from home can
be on the cards. All that is stopping me is that my current gig is giving me
learning opportunities both technical and managerial that I might find hard to
get in a remote job. But boy do I love working on code in a quiet room!

A good way to "beat the system" would be to live in Adelaide where the cost of
an apartment near the city is about $300KAU ($225k USD). A 100% mortgage on an
ocean view house, close to the city, for a family would be affordable on a US
tech salary! I guess as long as you don't care about 'house as an investment'
because demand is likely to be higher in the long term in the horrible
overcrowded "big smoke" cities :-)

~~~
jackgolding
we also have brisbane with an expected decrease in apartment values... might
be able to pick up a bargain...

its a shame that dev salaries top out so little here (i'm melbourne) makes you
consider all these things...

------
godot
I'm currently in the bay area, and I've always thought that in a scenario you
describe, moving to Sacramento makes a lot of sense. (curious to see the
thoughts of HN on this topic) You're still close enough away from the bay that
you can visit fairly often (couple times a month) to keep in touch with
friends there, but housing is significantly cheaper. Lifestyle is not
incredibly different than what you would be used to in the bay (Sac and east
bay are relatively similar) -- it's not like you'd be shoveling snow in the
winter.

For you, coming from LA, I'm not sure if it makes a ton of sense, but I would
probably look at smaller cities around southern california in a similar way.

------
dvdhnt
We live in Chattanooga.

I love the outdoor culture, weather, low cost of living, focus on healthy
eating, local restaurants, EPB fiber, small city vibe.

It has been compared to Austin and Boulder. The city schools suck because they
don’t get enough funding. There are good private schools downtown and a good
elementary.

The suburbs have some solid schools if you do your research. Suburbs like
Ooltewah are growing and remain super family friendly. You’ll love the parks
and town squares. Iron man has hosted here often. It’s 2 hours from Atlanta
and Nashville.

It’s a very progressive city given the context of Tennessee and the south.

I could go on. If you’d like to know more, hit me up. I also work remotely.

We would consider moving to Colorado or Europe. That’s about it.

~~~
TbobbyZ
How is downtown Chattanooga for family living? I've seen some cool apartments.

~~~
dvdhnt
I used to live downtown with my kids. The apartment was gorgeous. Southside is
currently going through gentrification, that's where I lived, and is the
younger area. The North Shore is where you'll find the most wealth and private
schools. Lots of young families are buying homes in Highland Park and St. Elmo
because they're less expensive. Again, you have to do your research.

Living downtown allows you to walk to most events - CFC (soccer team), the
downtown market, block parties, restaurants, etc. The public transit isn't
very good but Ubers and Lyfts are cheap. We enjoyed living downtown except for
grocery shopping. It's a bit more expensive and a drive from Southside. It's
not far, but you have stoplights and all of that.

All in all, I'd say 7/10\. I come from a more rural, less dense area, but
coming from the Bay, you'll probably feel like it's easy as pie to get around.

------
DoreenMichele
With small kids, I suggest the following:

Look for a place with good schools. A good place to start is small towns with
land grant universities, like Manhattan, KS which was an awesome experience
years ago when I lived there.

I also like being reasonably close to a good airport.

Make a list of stores, eateries and similar that you like. A town doesn't
necessarily need all your favorites, but you should check that it has enough
to be comfortable for you.

For a time, I very much wanted to live in Cheyenne, Wyoming. It is 90 minutes
from Denver, one of the busiest airports in North America. I never made it
there and happy with where I'm at, but I think it's got a lot going for it.

------
sergiotapia
Miami, we're latino and the kids love it! Great weather and tons of
corporate-y work in the healthcare industry here. Lots of startups cropping up
as well recently.

We also have a great 1GB fiber internet connection, great for remote work.

------
reilly3000
Spokane, WA is a lovely place to live if you can tolerate snow. You could own
a very, very nice home on that salary, have access to a lot of amenities, and
a place than increasingly feels like Seattle and Portland used to. I lived in
and miss LA, but the soul can only handle so much souplantation.

------
cm2012
I live near my parents in the suburbs of nyc. Reasonable price but there are
much cheaper places.

I would move to Ithaca in upstate ny if not for family reasons. College towns
are a nice mix of rural cheap housing and stuff to do.

------
TimJYoung
We're in Buffalo, NY, and love it. We moved here from Orlando, FL for similar
reasons (kids, starting out) in 1998, albeit in our case we were starting our
own software company.

Were you born in LA, or are you from somewhere else ?

For more information:

[https://www.buffalorising.com/](https://www.buffalorising.com/)

If you decide to check out this area, our contact information is available via
our web site (www.elevatesoft.com). Feel free to send us an email and we'll be
happy to show you around or answer any questions you may have.

------
PerfectElement
We moved close to the Bruce Peninsula, Ontario, and we love it so far.

Pros: \- Cheaper than most places in Ontario. We live in a great house that
would cost at least 3x more in any GTA suburb. \- Lots of nature and places to
explore all around us. \- Peaceful and quiet. \- Good balance between country
living and convenience - high speed internet, natural gas, amazon delivery,
big box stores.

Cons: \- More snow in the winter (which can be good if you're into winter
sports) \- Limited number of ethnic restaurants. \- 2 hours away from an
international airport.

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randombit
Been working remote in Vermont for a decade now. Love it here and now that we
have kids I'm not even considering moving anywhere. Nature, plenty of space,
cheap (at least by major city standards), good food and beer scene, people are
friendly, good schools if you pick the right town.

My only complaints would be slow Internet (though fiber is more common these
days) and the ____ticks. And it gets cold sometimes, some people don 't like
that.

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jsqu99
Charleston, SC.

Moved here to escape the Washington D.C. rat race after 9/11.

It's great here, but word has gotten out and prices have gone up significantly
(nothing like LA) over the last few years.

I love it here, but it's scary moving somewhere where there are only a handful
of non-remote jobs, especially as a divorced father of two (I can not move if
I want to be near my kids)

------
bsvalley
Pick up a place that has no state income tax. You'll instantly get a %10 pay
raise. Definitely move away from California because the public schools are
just horrible. Florida, Washington or Texas. These 3 states have really good
schools.

------
muzani
Malaysia is nice as long as you don't pick Kuala Lumpur.

Good weather, good food, beautiful people, fast internet, easy to travel to
other places, very pro startup/tech attitude, nice currency conversion rate
for remote workers.

~~~
vram22
Why not Kuala Lumpur? I've only been there once, on work, some years ago. Was
there for a month or so. Didn't get to see a whole lot (except restaurants,
malls and night markets), but liked what I saw back then. Food was varied and
good (liked the food courts, where you can get many varieties of cuisines
under one roof), friendly people, good Internet (for then), etc. Of course it
is a big city, so some may not like that. But it did have a lot of parks and
trees, IIRC.

Plus the Multimedia Super Corridor was just starting up then, and while I've
not followed its progress closely, I did read now and then, that many startups
have been set up there and such.

~~~
muzani
Traffic can be terrible and hostile, and some people are not so nice either.
It can be rather expensive and it takes far too long to do something like buy
lunch or groceries. There are some networking effects, but they are very poor
compared to other cities.

It's much nicer outside the fringes of KL, places like Shah Alam, Cyberjaya,
Putrajaya, Bangi. Internet is just as good, travel to KL is not bad.

~~~
vram22
Interesting, thanks for the info. IIRC, MSC was in or around Cyberjaya.

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davidjnelson
Chico is really beautiful and has cheap housing plus lots of live music.

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akulbe
I live in the Portland area. Love the city, but it's expensive too. (albeit
not California expensive!)

