
How Did the Casio F91W Become a Terrorist Icon? - joeschmoe83
https://reaperfeed.com/how-did-the-casio-f91w-become-a-terrorist-icon/
======
dvt
I wrote about the F-91W last year in a post[1] that went viral-ish.
Interestingly, it's probably the only article of clothing worn by both
Obama[2], and Osama[3]. I wouldn't go as far as calling it a "terrorist icon"
\-- it just happens to be _literally_ the cheapest mass-produced digital watch
ever made. It's very sturdy, relatively waterproof, the battery should last
around a decade, and it even has a (terrible) LED for low light conditions!

I started getting into watches last year, and the F-91W is a sort of rite of
passage in watch circles. I've since bought a few expensive† ($1000+) watches
for my collection, but I often find myself wearing the Casio. Yeah, I modded
it and it has a bit of personal attachment, but it's not just that. There's
something really strange about it: it fits so snugly on my wrist, so warm, yet
spartan; it simply just _feels_ good.

[1] [https://dvt.name/2019/06/03/hacking-the-casio-f-91w-to-
handl...](https://dvt.name/2019/06/03/hacking-the-casio-f-91w-to-
handle-1000-psi/)

[2]
[https://static.highsnobiety.com/thumbor/hC8faiWSsiFpNpszRf0l...](https://static.highsnobiety.com/thumbor/hC8faiWSsiFpNpszRf0lb7yAkIA=/fit-
in/960x550/smart/static.highsnobiety.com/wp-
content/uploads/2015/09/Casio_F-91W_terrorist-002.jpg)

[3] [http://ethiopiaforums.com/wp-
content/uploads/2010/05/osama-b...](http://ethiopiaforums.com/wp-
content/uploads/2010/05/osama-bin-laden-seated.jpg)

† This is of course relative. Watches can cost up to millions, and serious
watch collectors have watches that can easily go up to $50,000++.

~~~
paulgerhardt
Claude Shannon defined information in part by its ability to distinguish from
noise.

Certain objects are _so_ ubiquitous and their signaling so minimal, it’s to
the point of background noise and contextlessness.

The Casio F-91W is one such object.

The monobloc chair is another[1].

The community jokes a CIA analyst looking at a gritty Polaroid of a monobloc
will have no ability to discern if the picture was taken in Djibouti or
Denmark.

In a certain, Cayce Pollard / William Gibson “CPU” aesthetic, there is cachet
and delight in signalling contextlessness - and a small cult has grown around
these objects. They collectively call objects that share this anonymous
property “monoblocs“ for short and their is a bit of fun in acquiring the most
base form (counter to our every instinct!)

I liked your article’s tangent on incompressibility. As, like fluid, noise is
incompressible and by reinforcing your F-91W, you have made it doubly so.

[1] [http://www.ethanzuckerman.com/blog/2011/04/06/those-white-
pl...](http://www.ethanzuckerman.com/blog/2011/04/06/those-white-plastic-
chairs-the-monobloc-and-the-context-free-object/)

~~~
rozab
There is a YouTube channel called Bryan Ropar's Plastic Chair World[0]. Bryan
is an expert when it comes to these monobloc chairs, and can name every model
by sight and tell you where it was produced.

I think we often underestimate how much depth there is to subjects we are only
casually familiar with, and I'm sure a CIA analyst could glean a great deal of
information from a still of a plastic chair.

[0]: [https://youtu.be/yCotpBAqJho](https://youtu.be/yCotpBAqJho)

~~~
moolcool
I LOVE Bryan Ropar's Plastic Chair World. I never thought I'd see it called
out on hackernews!

~~~
jl6
New fan here. I'm always really happy to see real people with real niche
interests publishing online, in a totally non-commercial context.

------
baron_harkonnen
> One of the detainees at Guantanamo was grilled over the prevalence of the
> watch amongst suspected terrorists. He claimed that the water-resistant
> feature of the F91W watch was handy due to the Islamic requirement for
> followers to wash up to their elbows before prayers. Innocent enough
> explanation, right? Well not really. Interrogators smelled a rat when
> another prisoner claimed the prevalence of the watch amongst Jihadi inmates
> was simply due to the built-in compass that helped them pray towards Mecca.
> However, there is no compass in the F91W.

It's important to point out here that what you're reading about is people
being tortured to confess on the purpose of a watch.

The logic of "Interrogators smelled a rat" is terrifying. Imagine you get
captured by a state enemy and they ask you why so many Americans have iPhones.
They beat you until you tell them and clearly "uh, they're useful? everyone
has one? you can pay for them in installments so the cost is hidden?" aren't
going to be acceptable answers. The interrogator smells a "rat" and wants to
get the "real" answers from you.

Clearly the answers of "so we can do Muslim things" are to appease the
interrogator. The prisoner knows that "I don't know, cause everyone else has
one and they're cheap" is not going to fly.

~~~
zeveb
> It's important to point out here that what you're reading about is people
> being tortured to confess on the purpose of a watch.

It's important to point out that you have absolutely no evidence of anyone
being tortured to confess to the purpose of a watch. The interrogators could
have _just asked_.

~~~
Nasrudith
Given the pattern of behavior of notorious torturers? By that standard the IRA
could have just gotten all of the diesel and fertilier for farming and the car
bombs were British false flags to harm the Irish cause.

------
tmp538394722
_Looks at my wrist_

Uh oh...

Or maybe because it’s a $6 watch...

Kinda like how 90% of murderers have been shown to eat bread within 12 hours
of their killing.

~~~
sharken
Heh, next up could be a story about the AK-47 rifle using the same premise.

~~~
lultimouomo
The article talks at length about the fact that both the F91W and the AK-47
are excellent, sturdy low cost devices, that are therefore widespread both
among terrorists and non terrorists.

~~~
huffmsa
The increased prevalence of F91W, ak47, Toyota N-Series trucks in a region vs
normal levels are a good indicator serious shit is going on.

~~~
dsr_
One of these is not like the others.

~~~
huffmsa
No, they definitely all go hand in hand

[https://9b16f79ca967fd0708d1-2713572fef44aa49ec323e813b06d2d...](https://9b16f79ca967fd0708d1-2713572fef44aa49ec323e813b06d2d9.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/1140x_a10-7_cTC/ATTACKS-
STINGERS-1567912922.jpg)

[https://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/the-toyota-
pick...](https://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/the-toyota-pickup-truck-
is-so-dependable-a-war-was-named-after-it-104487_1.jpg)

[https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/0be/8d1/e46c0791449288f88ea4...](https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/0be/8d1/e46c0791449288f88ea4698a4a02f97bbe-07-isis-
toyota-hilux.2x.rsocial.w600.jpg)

------
YeGoblynQueenne
It's not clear from the article but the Zapatistas is not a terrorist
organisation:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapatista_Army_of_National_Lib...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapatista_Army_of_National_Liberation)

The article describes them as "insurgents" initially, but in the immediately
next sentence goes on about "the terrorists of the world". The photo of their
leader follows immediately from photos of Osama Bin Laden and er, an
unidentified ISIS militant, apparentlY? It's extremely dodgy to lump such
clearly terrorist organisations with the Zapatistas. The latter are an
indigenous liberation army who have fought in opern warfare with the national
army of Mexico and are not known for attacking civilian targets, carrying out
suicide bombings or anything like that. Not to condone armed struggle but one
could call George Washington a terrorist, under such a loose apparent
definition of terrorism.

------
GekkePrutser
Uh oh...

I had one of these when I was young (though it may have been the pretty
similar F-105W actually). I loved that cool blue glow. In fact I think the
only difference between the F-91W and F-105W was the print on the front.

Edit: Nope, the F-91W had a poor green LED, the F-105W had super cool blue
electroluminescent backlight, so that was the difference, thanks to dvt for
pointing this out.

Also, I have a satellite phone, and many radio transceivers (mentioned in the
article). Just the "Large quantities of cash" I don't have (I buy too many
radios and other toys lol).. I suppose I'm on a list now :D

~~~
rejschaap
When my F-91W breaks I will upgrade to a F-105W.

~~~
rmorey
don't hold your breath

~~~
e2021
The watch never breaks, but the strap will break after 1-2 years of continuous
wear, and its cheaper to get a whole new watch than a new strap.

------
knolax
I wear a similar Casio and this article reads like "How did breathing oxygen
become a terrorist icon". I mean come on, it's one of the most common watches
on the planet. The best correlation the article could come up with is that
1/3rd of people caught with it also had bombs. That's worse than random
chance.

~~~
Sniffnoy
That's only worse than random chance if the base rate of having bombs (among
people ending up in Guantanamo Bay, anyway) is more than 1/3\. Were you
assuming it would be 1/2 or something? I don't see any reason to conclude
that. I can easily believe that the base rate would be under 1/3, and so 1/3
would in fact be better than random chance.

~~~
knolax
Fair point.

------
aaron695
I generally try and buy counterfeit stuff, that's my thing.

But I have never checked my Casio F91W is counterfeit, so I figured it's a
good time, I used this -

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGuJAJ0I1Cg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGuJAJ0I1Cg)

My watch says made in Japan, so I guess it's a genuine fake. But it is full of
water, so that bit sucks.

~~~
TedDoesntTalk
I can understand countefeit Rolexes, Breitling, etc...but why would you bother
to buy a counterfeit of a $15 watch?

EDIT: that video is fascinating. The different in beep frequency is a dead
give-away, though.

~~~
superhuzza
I needed a watch while travelling in Vietnam and bought an F91W from a market
stall for a few bucks. It's such a cheap watch I didn't even consider that
people sold fakes.

A few weeks later I noticed it was slowly losing time and had some other
issues, clearly a fake or reject watch. So that's how, I guess.

------
metalliqaz
this seems like one of those things where it's just ubiquitous, so of course
Terrorists would use it. like Toyota trucks [1]

[1] [https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-toyota-pickup-truck-
is-...](https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-toyota-pickup-truck-is-the-war-
chariot-of-the-third-world-ea4a121e948b)

~~~
mherdeg
Does owning one of those trucks get you in trouble?

I still miss the Wikipedia article "List of Guantanamo Bay captives accused of
possessing Casio watches" (I think republished at
[http://wikialpha.org/wiki/List_of_Guantanamo_Bay_captives_ac...](http://wikialpha.org/wiki/List_of_Guantanamo_Bay_captives_accused_of_possessing_Casio_watches)
) which seemed to give evidence that watch ownership was used to classify
people in detention camps.

~~~
GekkePrutser
I think owning a toyota 'technical' mentioned in the article, will get you in
trouble, yes :P

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_(vehicle)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_\(vehicle\))

------
smiley1437
If you like the F91w but want something beefier, the DW5600 has the cachet of
being rated space-worthy by NASA and looks similar but bigger. Costs about
$50, not $12 though.

~~~
nabla9
I have had GW-M5600 for years. It has all you need from a watch and nothing
more. It's almost perfect watch.

1\. It's small and looks like G-shock classic and has typical C-shock
features.

2\. Solar powered.

3\. Multi-band 5 timekeeping from atomic clocks in the US, EU or Japan. I set
the time once after I bought it and just switch daylight savings time twice a
year.

The only issue is that it needs integrated strap specific to the model, not
generic one. Casio straps for G-shocks break in everyday use in every 5-6
years. Durable stainless steel strap costs $100, roughly the same as the watch
itself.

~~~
droidno9
This is my go-to everyday watch. Have had it for over 10 years and it never
skipped a beat. I've had dozens of watches cycling through my collection
throughout the years, GW-M5600 has been the only one that I'd never considered
letting go of. When the straps break, I'll just go with a good black Nato
strap. If I had somehow lost this watch, I'd buy another one without
hesitation.

My only real complaint is the countdown timer is only 1 hour. There are times
I could use a 24-hour countdown timer.

A minor nitpick is the watch's thickness is just a tad too think to be worn
under shirt cuffs. If Casio would ever release a 25-30% thinner version with
the same features, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

~~~
wirthjason
I’d love to get more G-Shocks in this
[style]([https://g-shock.jp/products/origin/gmw-b5000/](https://g-shock.jp/products/origin/gmw-b5000/))
but they are too damn expensive. $100 is my range for a watch but some of
these are $500+!

I don’t know why Casio charges so much. I’d think that if they reduced the
price then people would buy more.

The other annoying thing about G-Shocks is the band. I have a all-black model
with a clasp link band. I love it. It’s super easy to remove and put back on
when I’m using they keyboard.

~~~
skripp
There are kits on Aliexpress/Taobao (I'm guessing Amazon as well) where you
can convert any 5600/5610 to a metal bracelet. It has the casio and g-shock
branding, so you have to be OK with a bit of light piracy. =) I did it last
year and the version I got was really high quality. The buttons are a bit
small on 5600/5610 though, so they are a bit harder to press.

------
totetsu
Word of warning. This doesn't always go down well as a conversation starter if
you meet someone wearing one of these...

~~~
sharken
I would think not :)

Much better if it was the Arnie watch:
[https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/seiko-prospex-
snj025-aka-t...](https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/seiko-prospex-snj025-aka-
the-2019-arnie-hands-on)

------
TedDoesntTalk
The F105-W is what you graduate to after you realize the F-91W is essentially
useless is the dark. I've worn both since the early 90s. The band always
breaks before the battery or watch itself dies. But i still get years out of
them.

------
aplc0r
While certainly not as cheap, the Casio Wave Ceptor watches have great
utility. My favorite travel watch is the WVA-M640-1AJF. It is always accurate,
always charged, and allows me to quickly see what time it is in another time
zone. Before I bought it, I forgot that there were watches focused on function
over form. Don't get me wrong, I love a good looking watch, but sometimes you
want a tool over an art piece.

------
fergie
They are also pretty popular in the British army because they are, in many
ways, the best watch available.

That said, they have a few limitations:

* The backlight is pretty weak

* The stopwatch tops out at 1 hour

* It needs batteries, as opposed to solar or kinetic charging (this is probably why the backlight is underpowered)

* It would be great if it had a compass.

~~~
coayer
> The backlight is pretty weak

The reason for this is because the LED is mounted facing directly up, not
facing the display. I've seen some mods where they replace the LED with a
side-facing and it's far better.

------
PeterStuer
I had one of those in the 90's.

It was nearly indestructible. Never left my wrist during daily jogs, showers,
swims, saunas ... you name it.

After a few years finally some water had gotten into the housing. The watch
was still working, but the screen had become less readable. Still, best watch
ever owned.

~~~
488643689
For me the straps were tearing after about 6-7 years (bought it 2009, might be
less plastizer used). Became shower watch for some more years. Sometimes you
even forget the stopwatch running for month, but the battery still lasts
longer then anything else.

~~~
treve
Now I'm wondering if you turn the stopwatch on, if it stores the time it
turned on, or if it maintains the 'elapsed seconds'.

~~~
488643689
That's a smart thought, I haven't had!

Could be testable by turning the stopwatch on and then change the time. I have
no idea how these clocks work; if they have a Unix time style counter as
internal reference, then this test won't work. Would need a 36 bit memory to
run for 20 years continuous counting; 30 billion times bit flipping on the
lowest bit. Probably done differently.

------
ramanujank
About Goldstar shoes which are made in Nepal - expressed in a similar vein.

[https://www.arabnews.com/node/1247476/offbeat](https://www.arabnews.com/node/1247476/offbeat)

------
alex_young
Is it just me or is this short on details? I don't see any reason this timer
is actually easy to wire up, and I remember my similar watch decades ago also
as being water resistant, so it seems like it's less than ideal?

~~~
djrogers
The back case is actually the piezo speaker, and it connects with springy
contacts not a soldered or wired connection. I would imagine this opens up a
variety of easy ways to connect this to a relay for a "louder" alarm.

------
afroisalreadyin
I used to be a big fan of these watches; cheap, durable, has an alarm and a
chronometer, doesn't look completely dorky, and they even acquired a certain
coolness factor at some point. When I bought one at a watch store in Turkey,
the owner asked me whether I was going to the military; apparently it's pretty
much a must have for new conscripts, thanks especially to the alarm that wakes
you up for guard duty. I stopped buying new ones, though, because the strap is
pretty much guaranteed to rip after a year or so, and a replacement strap
costs as much as the watch.

~~~
ruste
You can replace it with an 18mm nato strap that's never going to break on you!

------
zgniatacz
the watch pictured in head of article is not F91w.

~~~
_eht
It definitely is in the family. I say this while staring at my stack of F91W-1
Classics. The only difference between mine and the one in their header is the
top right says “ALARM” instead of “F-91W”, and a few other minor face label
differences. Unless it’s a counterfeit, but either way every other detail
looks spot on.

~~~
zgniatacz
it looks like casio w217h

~~~
_eht
I think you are correct. I didn't realize they would look so similar.

------
KingOfCoders
I would have thought my GW-M5610-1ER would be the better watch, with GShock
and solar (Love the watch). But perhaps too expensive.

~~~
classichasclass
I have a GW-500A myself (G-Shock, solar, radio clock). It is my favourite
watch but I wish it weren't as bulky/a bit heavy as it is.

~~~
KingOfCoders
I feel like the GW-M5610-1ER is smaller, try out one once.

------
squarefoot
Any ultra cheap (sub €1) MCU can be programmed to wait for long times and
activate a load, and several dedicated even more cheap chips can be used as
well for the purpose. If any 3 letter agency visited my home lab they would
find enough parts to build at least one hundred different timers and remote
controls to activate bombs. One thing is a tool whose primary purpose is to
harm people (guns, bombs, etc.) and a different thing is something that can be
misused as such (kitchen knives, screwdrivers, electronic parts etc.).
Criminalizing or even restricting the possession of the latter would be a very
dangerous practice that could backfire by creating a world a lot worse than
the one they want to protect people from.

------
billfruit
Actually digital watches have been on the downswing lately, with hardly any
new designs/models coming into the market. The only standout one I remember
from the recent years is the Casio Waveceptors WV 59 with their distinctive
large screens.

------
yaur
I've bought a bunch of these to give away to newly elected patrol leaders in
our boy scout troop because they are cheap and get the job done... the job
being to tell time. I wonder if that means I'm on a list now.

------
derjames
Brian Kernighan is using one.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9upVbGSBFo?t=01h07m01s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9upVbGSBFo?t=01h07m01s)

------
mongol
When I was doing my conscription military service (I am Swedish) I noticed how
hard it was to tell time in the darkness of the night with my existing analog
watch.

So I asked my parents for a cheap digital watch with inbuilt light. I got
something similar to this Casio but am not sure if it was exactly this. But
the darkness readability aspect of a watch had never been a concern for me
prior, or after, but during that year the most important feature. Perhaps
terrorists operating in the dark as well have come to a similar conclusion.

~~~
goatinaboat
_I noticed how hard it was to tell time in the darkness of the night with my
existing analog watch._

An analogue watch with SuperLumiNova(tm) will be usable all night from a 10
second blast with a good torch. Source: regularly do this.

~~~
kohtatsu
Torch as in flashlight, for us north americans.

~~~
michaelt
10 second blast with an oxy-acetylene torch and it'll be illuminated for the
rest of its useful life.

------
Diesel555
It's like the Taliban and the Toyota Hilux

Quick google search gives lots of results on this, here's one:
[https://www.wearethemighty.com/tech/how-the-white-toyota-
hil...](https://www.wearethemighty.com/tech/how-the-white-toyota-hilux-became-
the-favorite-vehicle-of-terrorists)

~~~
SauciestGNU
I had a Hilux (although not called that as it was in the US) until a few years
ago. Amazing vehicle, thing was damn near 30, and just a dream to work on. I
can definitely understand the utility of them in a conflict scenario.

------
archi42
I'm wondering why Subcomandante Marcos is wearing two clocks? At first it
seems like he put it on his left arm in one picture, and on his right on the
other - but on the b/w picture casually "hides" the second clock with his
hand.

------
avelis
The horologist community holds the F-91W as a classic for Casio. It's a good
starting point in the affordables category. It has a lot of features for less
than $15 USD. I guess that's why terrorists use them.

------
perryizgr8
I loved my F91W when I was in school. I recently bought one again just because
it was so dirt cheap! It's an excellent watch. Does everything you expect a
watch to do, and does it well.

------
dirtyid
I've replaced my F91W with a miband4 and it feels like the next logical
evolution of cheap ubiquitous wearables if a generic version ever comes out
without ecosystem lock. They already RSVP around same price points, and
there's Casio watch faces for nostalgia. The only thing that's missing is NFC
and a few physical buttons for media controls.

------
simonebrunozzi
> Inventor of the Casio F91W, Ryusuke Moriai, polishes a Samurai sword in
> Tokyo.

The photo caption is wrong, I think. Ryusuke is not "polishing" a Samurai
sword, or Katana. Rather, most likely, he is simply analyzing it and looking
at the curvature, etc, and using a cloth to not leave any fingerprint on the
blade.

------
xwdv
I used to think these watches would be cool to have, but I just can't justify
having a device on my body at all times that only offers a couple features.

