
Amazon demands we correct an article refering to an Echo as a “microphone” - DyslexicAtheist
https://nitter.net/jason_koebler/status/1303383712160190469#m
======
donor20
This article is pretty interesting.

\- Supposedly Amazon has operated things like AWS at a loss for long periods
of time (I highly doubt this - AWS has never been cheap).

"And it's through this mass adoption of Alexa devices that consumers (and the
army of human beings Amazon hires to listen to consumers) can collectively
train Amazon’s voice recognition system, which is then monetized through
Amazon’s primary source of profits: Amazon Web Services."

There is no way Amazon has echo / alexa out there just so it can develop a
language recognition model. They could just record their customer service reps
talking to customers, train it on the millions of movies and shows with
subtitles on amazon prime or train using audio book narrations. And the
profits from their transcription service are not likely very high relative to
other services they offer.

Whoever becomes the device that people want in their home, the one they turn
to to coordinate their heating and cooling, arming their security system,
getting the weather and traffic is going to be in an incredible position.

Google is also chasing this market, and apple to a degree. Google has an
incredible voice recognition model already. They are chasing this market
because it is THE most powerful and personal way to have a connection to the
consumer. If you don't understand WHY these companies want apple siri, google
assistant or amazon alexa everywhere you don't see the future. These companies
will OWN consumer loyalty. A child growing up in a amazon echo / alexa
integrated house may become a lifelong brand consumer including when they buy
their house and setup their home automation etc.

The other thing, despite all the claims about "amazon microphones" \- people
will PAY for these - by the truckload. If I could get a space already pre-
integrated with home automation etc? Very appealing. And normal people do call
these things echo devices or alexa.

These companies are trying to deliver things to consumers that generate high
brand loyalty. It seems to be working. I noticed this when browsing for cars -
EVERY salesperson emphasizes that their cars supports "apple" carplay etc. My
guess - 50%+ of even CAR buyers want to have a connection to their brand loyal
assistant.

~~~
Xelbair
While their end goal is pretty clear(brand loyalty, profiling).. i doubt that
it will come to pass with our current tech.

Lets face it - IT professionals do not trust such systems, nor use them - they
are inferior to any type of input mode at the moment.

Most normal people do not care about them, nor use them.

There is vocal but relatively niche group of tech enthusiasts who are really
into it, but they are already a brand loyalists.

On a side note - the whole concept of brand loyalty is completely idiotic from
consumer PoV. There is no merit for the customer in it.

~~~
Bud
The first line of this comment is your opinion, which can't be false, as it's
just an opinion, but the other four lines are all completely false.

1\. IT professionals absolutely do use such systems. In droves. It's true that
we are more likely to be wary of them, but a large number of IT pros I know
and work with do use Alexa/Siri/etc. for home automation and all kinds of
other things. And no: smart speakers are not "inferior to any type of input
mode", at least not in a wide variety of circumstances. I can turn my air
conditioner on or adjust its temperature while lying in bed, without getting
up, and without even waking up all the way. Try that with another "type of
input mode". I can turn on lights while I am stumbling to the bathroom in the
middle of the night, but I can easily use only 10% brightness so as to not
wake up my wife. Try that with another input mode. I could go on for pages,
but I trust the point is made.

2\. There are at least 300 million smart speakers out there already, and the
number is growing exponentially. Amazon alone already had 100 million sold by
the beginning of 2019. I don't know the exact number right now, but it's a
very big number.

3\. See #2. 300 million units is not a "niche".

4\. Brand loyalty, in fact, gives substantial benefits to the consumer,
contrary to your assertion. Greater integration of devices and ease of use is
the most obvious one.

~~~
ClumsyPilot
In an ideal marketplace the best product is selected on it's merit.

Brand loyalty, vendor lock-in, financial leverage, etc. are all attempts to
interfere with free market, to prevent a consumer moving to a competitor.

There is also no reason you can't have integration between different vendors,
in fact thats what standards are for. Apple, etc. are notorious for refusing
to integrate to protect their advantage.

The have the right to do that to some, limited, extent, but to advocate it as
good for the consumer is just self-delusion.

~~~
the_other
> In an ideal marketplace the best product is selected on it's merit.

> Brand loyalty, vendor lock-in, financial leverage, etc. are all attempts to
> interfere with free market, to prevent a consumer moving to a competitor

As I understand it, the only way to prevent vendor lock-in is regulation.
Regulation is considered anathema to a “free market”. Subsequently, I’ve come
to expect that a free market _guarantees_ that vendors will attempt to lock
their customers in.

I suspect your “ideal market” is not merely an idealised fantasy but also
self-contradictory and thus impossible.

I’d love it if you could explain otherwise because it’ll probably help me
understand basic economics better.

~~~
johncowan
Without regulation you don't have a market at all, you have war, where the
best and cheapest way to beat your competitors is to murder them. Even the
Mafia found it was better to establish a council to work out beefs and reduce
inter-family violence. Market law goes back to the Middle Ages in Western
Europe, where it was international in scope and enforced by private courts
paid for by the merchants themselves.

We don't have actual war yet. But we do have a world of duopolies, in which
two (or three or four) control almost all of the business between them. That's
_not_ good for customers or suppliers or retailers; it's only good for the
rent-seekers who own those companies.

Unfortunately, the U.S. has for several administrations now basically not
enforced the antitrust laws unless a short-term rise in prices is visible.
Long-time rises in prices, as well as knock-on effects like reduction in
quality, are simply ignored.

------
pwinnski
Read the sentence in context:
[https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qj45kx/amazon-wants-
alexa...](https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qj45kx/amazon-wants-alexa-to-
move-into-your-apartment-before-you-do)

The sentence in question comes eight (8) paragraphs in, and reads: "While it’s
natural to be chiefly concerned about privacy when your apartment comes with
an Amazon microphone pre-installed, we should also be critical about where the
data extracted from us ends up."

In context, no other word makes as much sense, and the request would make the
article worse.

~~~
stingrae
I think people assume that the (amazon/google/apple) microphones are
continuously uploading audio to the cloud. Wake word detection on these
devices would be terrible/expensive if it ran in the cloud.

~~~
takeda
There was an article recently about Google service notifying owner that the
batteries in smoke detector need to be replaced (based on the chirp sound
noises the smoke detector does).

This shows that at very least the "wake word" can be easily changed.

I think that anyone installing device like that without having a complete
control over it is just ignorant. And this is surprising, since many tech
people don't see any problems with it.

~~~
OkGoDoIt
This seems like such a useful feature though. I wish there was a way to know
for certain exactly what the device was doing so I could have this
functionality but also have certainty that Google can’t arbitrarily add other
wake words without my knowledge or consent.

------
noja
Is everyone here missing the point?

Amazon aren't going to "request" just any old correction, the news is that
they don't want an internet connected microphone and speaker to have any
mental connection to the "m" word. Because it would have negative connotations
for most people.

~~~
RandoHolmes
I'm pretty sure everyone is aware of the motivation for the correction...

~~~
karmakaze
I'm not. Is it because Amazon _is_ using it as a privacy-invading microphone
and doesn't want that to be well known, or is it that it just doesn't want to
reduce usage due to unfounded privacy concerns?

~~~
kube-system
You are thinking too far into it. The simplest explanation is usually the most
correct. They have a product to sell and want it to be portrayed positively.

------
altitudinous
It seems a reasonable request to me. How else were they going to suggest that
you do it? There is a cut and paste here, but it isn't a demand, it is a
"request".

Of course this is about to get downvoted because evil microphones.

~~~
TheRealSteel
How is is reasonable that people who don't work for Amazon be expected to
speak like Amazon's marketing department?

~~~
fastball
Referring to an Amazon Echo as a "microphone" is reductionist to the point
where it could actually confuse readers as to what is being discussed. A smart
speaker has a microphone, but it is not "a microphone".

It would be like Tesla taking issue with someone calling their car "an
electric motor". Sure it has those things, but that's not what it is.

Totally reasonable change imo.

~~~
ludamad
It's reasonable in a vacuum but "having an Amazon microphone in your home" is
not the same as "having an echo device in your home." There is a clear intent

~~~
fastball
Yes, the clear intent is by the author of this article to use inaccurate
language in order to scare-tactic readers into thinking Amazon just wants to
spy on you.

Amazon sells literal microphones in addition to the Echo. That sentence could
be referring to literal microphones under the AmazonBasics brand for all I
know.

------
margo209320
This reminds me of Cory Doctorow's Unauthorized Bread
([https://craphound.com/category/unauthorizedbread/](https://craphound.com/category/unauthorizedbread/)),
where poor people have to rent "subsidized" apartments and in turn are forced
to use the pre-installed household appliances, which only work with
"official", overpriced supplies from the manufacturer.

------
natcombs
The screenshot shows a request, not a demand. The tweet’s headline is clearly
clickbait

~~~
dade_
It’s also confusing to refer to an Amazon microphone because I am not sure
what product are writing about. I think most people know that an echo has
microphones and doesn’t read brainwaves.

~~~
fastball
There is even someone in the twitter thread pointing out that Amazon uses the
word "microphone" in their copy, as if that is some sort of "gotcha".

No, Amazon isn't trying to pretend the Echo doesn't have a microphone – they
just think it's _misleading_ to refer to a smart speaker as an "Amazon
microphone", and I happen to agree.

~~~
luckylion
> smart speaker

That's pretty misleading as well. Speakers cannot listen, but the Echo can.

~~~
victords
Microphones cannot speak, but the Echo can.

~~~
andrewzah
Actually all microphones can "speak". All speakers can be used as microphones
as well. It's not like the conversion process only works one way.

~~~
mrob
>Actually all microphones can "speak".

Counterexample:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_microphone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_microphone)

~~~
c22
Countercounterexample: [https://www.livescience.com/64619-laser-sound-
beam.html](https://www.livescience.com/64619-laser-sound-beam.html)

~~~
mrob
That's a laser specifically designed for transmitting sound, not a laser
microphone.

~~~
c22
You know, I had that (extremely pedantic) thought as I was posting, but I
figured someone might find it interesting anyway.

------
ceilingcorner
Reminds me of 1984’s _telescreens_ ; the word seemingly selected to hide the
fact that they are also recording devices.

~~~
eranation
Just reading it, I’m halfway through. I doubt anyone didn’t know they had
microphones or cameras. Contrasting it with the word phone, it implies it has
a microphone... but we still all carry around in our pocket without
hesitation. Yelling “hey Siri” or “ok google” in a crowded place will probably
yield as many or more beeps and blips as yelling “Alexa”.

------
1vuio0pswjnm7
Here's the article:

[https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qj45kx/amazon-wants-
alexa...](https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qj45kx/amazon-wants-alexa-to-
move-into-your-apartment-before-you-do)

[https://web.archive.org/web/20200905234440/https://www.vice....](https://web.archive.org/web/20200905234440/https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qj45kx/amazon-
wants-alexa-to-move-into-your-apartment-before-you-do)

~~~
dredmorbius
And HN submission:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24418856](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24418856)

------
mikece
Private investigator Steve Rambam was offering $1000 to anyone who could
hack/modify an Echo device to answer to "Hey Wiretap" \-- as far as I know
that reward hasn't been claimed and is still valid:

[https://twitter.com/supernerdmedia/status/996778740851007488...](https://twitter.com/supernerdmedia/status/996778740851007488?lang=en)

~~~
jedimastert
AFAIK it isn't actually possible. This is from memory, but there's technical
limitations to trying to listen for and process everything all the time, so
there's a secondary processing unit whose only job is to listen for the
activation phrase and activate the main unit when it hears it. I believe this
was hardwired to only listen for the phrase itself and doesn't use the same
speech recognition model

~~~
GekkePrutser
Devices like this aren't hardwired into anything. Echo is sold in many markets
with different pronounciation. Amazon isn't going to scrap thousands of units
when the Spanish market doesn't want them but the US does :) Or when they
introduce a new market.

Indeed the hotword is listened for by a local CPU, not the remote cloud which
interprets the rest of the sentence received. But you can bet this is not
hardwired in any way.

These devices are field programmable in full. Just nobody bothered to hack
them for a measly 1000 bucks :P

------
paweladamczuk
I think I will start calling all such devices microphones.

~~~
coronadisaster
I think they should be called "active audio monitoring devices" because
microphone is somewhat missing something... or maybe "smart microphone".

~~~
eranation
Should we include our phones, tables and laptops and call them "mobile active
audio monitoring devices" too? They all have microphones and cameras (not just
one, but many have two) and we all carry them around in our pockets or on our
wrists or even in our ears without much issue. They don't even hide the fact
they have a microphone, the name of the device is literally a mobile micro-
phone ("mobile phone", "smart phone"). Many phones also have a wake word (try
yelling "hey siri" in a crowded place). So I really don't get the backlash
around smart speakers. The main use of a smart speaker is to play music, not
to record notes or make calls. And speaker-phone is already taken. I wouldn't
put any evil marketing scheme to calling them smart speakers and not smart
(micro) phones.

~~~
coronadisaster
phone in smart-phone stands for telephone, not microphone

------
whoknew1122
Amazon: "Calling an Echo a 'microphone' is derivative and ignores the other
functionality. It's more accurate to call an Echo... an Echo..."

Journalist: "Within the context of the sentence, the microphone is the only
thing that matters."

Both are right, and both are doing their job.

Amazon PR wants present their products in a positive light, which includes
using the brand name and considering all of the Echo's functionality -- not
just the microphone.

The journalist is pointing out privacy concerns, so the microphone is all that
matters.

\---

I'm a bit curious as to how 'Corrections requested' equates to a 'demand',
though.

------
protomyth
If you're going to go for the controversy, I would have gone with "Amazon's
microphone". The 's will break the idea its a new device and emphasizes who
truly owns it.

------
reegnz
“...for there is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about,
and that is not being talked about.” - Oscar Wilde, The Picture of Dorian Gray

------
FpUser
I had given up on not having a smartphone (still do not have data plan) but I
am not putting any other of those spy gizmos in my house/car.

------
totetsu
They call them smart speakers. Why not name it after any of the other
components..

------
dathinab
Change it to:

Often uniformed user chosen microphone based survivance device which _could_
also spy on your network, where you live and other meta information ;-)

------
nmeofthestate
"slapping a “smart home” premium onto the monthly rent may let your landlord
reverse plunging rents [...] everyone (but you) wins."

This seems clueless - if renters don't want Alexa then they will just rent the
cheaper places without it. And if renters want it then they also won, by
buying something they wanted. And, to head off objections, if renters "are
forced to rent" the places with Alexa anyway when they don't want it, then the
'premium' isn't for Alexa and landlords wasted their money.

------
jerome-jh
They should do the change and add in the introduction what Amazon requested.

I can see they actually did the change with no mention of the edit, and they
still dare to conclude "Amazon did not respond to Motherboard’s request for
comment."

It can by no way be called a "request", that was definitely an "order".

------
drtillberg
What's funny is the original Vice article was very condemnatory of Amazon and
AWS data and business practices. And then Amazon in response metaphorically
requested ... wait for it ... that the author move a comma.

So, the rest of the article is good and on target!?

Was the Amazon correction request from an AI bot?

~~~
murgindrag
My guess is that Amazon reviews for trademarks, proper use of brand names, and
similar, not for content.

This correction came from the same department that would ask you to replace
"Amazon Kindley book readery thingy" with "Amazon Kindle® Paperwhite®
eReader."

I doubt the reviewer even realized how 1984 the proposed correction was.

------
prvc
A bit off topic: what is this site? An unofficial Twitter mirror?

~~~
detaro
yes (alternate Twitter frontend they call it, but same thing)

~~~
jwilk
Discussed in 2019:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21849744](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21849744)
(38 comments)

------
mensetmanusman
I wonder if Apple would demand that you not refer to an iPhone as a
microphone.

Ha

------
rcakebread
It's not a microphone. It's four microphones!

------
mindfulhack
They're microphones who can think.

------
mariuolo
Or else?

------
justaguy88
How is this not called 'spying'

------
darkmoney007
It's common knowledge of the lack of security in IoT devices.

I suspect a hacker will hack alexa and start trolling your family.

Great idea....

~~~
hacym
Are you suggesting it's not possible to build IoT devices with security in
mind?

~~~
beervirus
Anything's possible, but in practice...

------
harry8
"The Amazon Microphone"

Let's all call it such from now.

~~~
harry8
/me waves to Amazon marketing. Glad you hate it!

Amazon Microphone it is!

