
Initial thoughts on the Rocket announcement - yannisp
http://blog.docker.com/2014/12/initial-thoughts-on-the-rocket-announcement/
======
panarky
How can Docker claim that Rocket does not welcome the notion of portability?
Portability and composability are at the center of the Rocket announcement.

From the Rocket announcement:

    
    
      simple and open specifications for a portable container format...
    
      fill the gap for companies that just want a way to securely and
      portably run a container
    

From the Docker response:

    
    
      these vendors want to create orchestration solution (sic) that are
      tailored for their particular infrastructure or offerings, and do
      not welcome the notion of portability
    

Is this just FUD and sour grapes?

~~~
SEJeff
I think the rocket vs docker idea of open specifications are very different.
Docker is fundamentally an API. In theory, you could create a C# version of
docker that implements the docker api ontop of windows (when Microsoft adds
namespacing support) and it would "just work TM". The same could be said for
FreeBSD or anything else really.

Rocket looks very cool, and while it certainly does prevent some of the issues
with docker security, it misses some of the benefits... like a remote API as
there isn't a rktd, and many people will undoubtedly write them. So in that
regard, I'd have to say rocket offers less openness.

With the current docker design, I see no reason why libcontainer couldn't add
a rocket or lxd backend and be done with it however. As a sysadmin/developer
to builds things, I see this as healthy for the container ecosystem even if it
does certainly come off as a bit uncool from @phillips and the coreos crew.
I'm kind of biased in that I think the only good multi-host docker / container
manager will ultimately be mesos with kubernetes ontop.

------
themgt
This comes off as overly defensive and entitled, like "we brought you
containers and you stab us in the back!?"

I don't see why they need to view this as an opportunity to fight back and
criticize another app container system, rather than enthusiasm about the
continued spread of containers and expressing a desire to cooperate on
building open, interoperable standards.

~~~
conradk
Where's the critic of Rocket ? All I see is that they disagree with the
choices made by the team behind Rocket and they want to blog about it later.
Other than that, Ben seems to only say that Docker was built by and for a
community of developers and devops to make applications run consistently on
different platforms. Ben says that expanding the scope of Docker is the right
choice despite people being opposed to it, if I understand him right.

No, I'm not a Docker fanboy. Yes, I think Docker is pretty cool. Yes, I think
the competition from Rocket is great and I can't wait to see how things go.

------
mmahemoff
Some context, since the article contains neither explanation nor link about
"the Rocket announcement":

CoreOS is building a container runtime, Rocket
[https://coreos.com/blog/rocket/](https://coreos.com/blog/rocket/)
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8682525](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8682525)

(This appears to be a case where the writer is so immersed in their own world,
they forget readers might not be as up to speed as their own colleagues.)

------
orand
For a post that according to the title is about Rocket, it's interesting that
Rocket (and CoreOS) aren't even mentioned until paragraph 12. The previous 11
paragraphs are all "blah blah blah Docker". Seems like Docker is pretty full
of themselves.

~~~
thebeardisred
I see you got a recent copy. The original p12 follows follows:

    
    
      A small number of vendors disagree with this direction. Some have expressed their concern that, as
      Docker expands its scope, there may be less room for them to create differentiated, value-added
      offerings. In some cases, these vendors want to create orchestration solution that are tailored for their
      particular infrastructure or offerings, and do not welcome the notion of portability. In some cases, of
      course, there are technical or philosophical differences. We hope to address some of the technical
      arguments posed by the Rocket project in a subsequent post.

~~~
Titanous
Here's the original:
[https://web.archive.org/web/20141201195306/https://blog.dock...](https://web.archive.org/web/20141201195306/https://blog.docker.com/2014/12/initial-
thoughts-on-the-rocket-announcement/)

------
andruby
> These capabilities should not be monolithic. Individuals should be free to
> use, modify, or not use these services and their higher level APIs.

Let's hope they mean it.

> While we disagree with some of the arguments and questionable rhetoric and
> timing of the Rocket announcement, we hope that we can all continue to be
> guided by what is best for users and developers.

Interesting way to end their reply to the announcement of Rocket. The whole
post reads like a typical PR response without real arguments. I'm looking
forward to their followup post.

------
norcimo5
Why the heck are they being so defensive? I honestly don't get it.

~~~
vezzy-fnord
It's a strategy lifted directly from a page of "Producing OSS" about forking
(in this case not a fork, but a competitor project, and still just as
applicable):
[http://producingoss.com/en/forks.html](http://producingoss.com/en/forks.html)

------
bastijn
"We of docker, advise docker. "

Despite their arguments being valid or not, I cannot help but hearing this
message over and over in my head.

------
ryduh
> While we disagree with some of the arguments and questionable rhetoric and
> timing of the Rocket announcement, we hope that we can all continue to be
> guided by what is best for users and developers.

What's he talking about regarding the timing of the announcement?

~~~
zwily
DockerCon is this week.

~~~
ryduh
Makes more sense. Thanks!

------
brown9-2
I read the Rocket announcement and then immediately read this response, and
find myself very confused at what "mud-slinging" I missed in the Rocket post.

~~~
mrisse
They called Docker broken.

    
    
      From a security and composability perspective, the Docker
      process model - where everything runs through a central
      daemon - is fundamentally flawed. To “fix” Docker would
      essentially mean a rewrite of the project, while inheriting
      all the baggage of the existing implementation.

------
CoconutPilot
I see a parallel with what Docker did with LXC and the libcontainer debacle.
What comes around goes around ...

That said, I like this announcement. Docker was focusing on becoming an App
store. I like that Rocket brings the focus back to technology.

------
pron
> While we disagree with some of the arguments and questionable rhetoric and
> timing of the Rocket announcement

Does anyone care to explain what's suspicious about the timing?

~~~
marcc
DockerCon Amsterdam is later this week. Docker plans to make some
announcements during this event.

~~~
darkarmani
Wouldn't it be better (for coreos) to make the announcement after DockerCon,
so it if it was FUD docker couldn't counter it all week?

------
jafaku
"They are free to use Docker as a single container format."

Yes please, that's my preferred format.

