
37signals becomes Basecamp - okgabr
http://37signals.com
======
alexcroox
While I admire 37signals I do find myself increasingly comparing them to
Google and their offering. They make incredible services, but it's hard to
trust them to build your business workflow around their products. If there
aren't stripping back critical business features such as time tracking for our
billing in the new Basecamp, they are looking to shutdown or sell others a few
years on.

I hate corporate software as much as the next guy, but at least you know it
will be around and supported for a long time to come and without stripping
features core to running your business. /rant

~~~
wlll
The only feature I can think of that we ever removed (I might be wrong) is
OpenID, because almost no-one used it and it was really confusing.

Time tracking is still there in Basecamp Classic, and that's not going away.
If you rely on time tracking in Basecamp Classic you can continue to do so.

See this from the announcement page FAQ:

Q: What about Basecamp Classic? "We are fully committed to running Basecamp
Classic forever." \- [http://37signals.com/](http://37signals.com/)

~~~
ry0ohki
I get the feeling if a majority of people had switched to the new Basecamp,
they would have killed off the old one, but it's such a breadwinner, they are
not going to take it away, although I suspect if it ever gets to the point
that a tiny portion is on Classic, they will change their mind, which is
unsurprising as that's more or less been the concept of their company (to make
bold statements and change them when circumstances change).

~~~
jasonfried
The number of people have nothing to do with it. We won't kill it off because
we made a commitment not to. We're keeping our word. Simple as that.

------
jaimebuelta
It still escapes me why this recent trend of naming companies with the names
of products "for brand recognition" (the other obvious example is 10gen to
become MongoDB Inc.)

It would be interesting to see other companies do that in the past:

\- "Microsoft is going to become Windows Inc"

\- "Apple Computers will be known from now on as iPod Ltd"

\- "The new name of the company will be Air Jordan & Co. Nike no more!"

~~~
teh_klev
I think it all depends. What 37signals have done makes sense because outside
of the tech arena "37signals" is perhaps a confusing and difficult
name/identity. I guess also because Basecamp has eventually become their
flagship product they are primarily identified by it. You can trace this
evolution in the blog post:

"37signals was founded back in 1999 as a web design firm. With the release of
Basecamp in 2004, we began our journey to become a software company. Once
Basecamp revenue surpassed web design revenue in 2005, the transition was
complete."

"However, because we've released so many products over the years, we've become
a bit scattered, a bit diluted."

"So with that in mind, last August we conducted a thorough review of our
products, our customer base, our passions, and our visions of the company for
the next 20 years. When we put it all on the table, everything lined up and
pointed at one clear conclusion. We all got excited. We knew it was right."

"Moving forward, we will be a one product company. That product will be
Basecamp. Our entire company will rally around Basecamp."

"From now on, we are Basecamp. Basecamp the company, Basecamp the product.
We're one and the same."

This makes total sense. Even if in the future they launch another barnstorming
product, if it's under the Basecamp brand/umbrella it will have a stronger
brand identity than being launched as a 37signals product.

The same works for 10gen's rename to MongoDB Inc (even if as a UK citizen I
find "Mongo" to be a difficult name to sell due to certain negative
connotations associated with "mong").

Take a look at Oracle's history [1]:

"Ellison co-founded Oracle Corporation in 1977 with Bob Miner and Ed Oates
under the name Software Development Laboratories (SDL). In 1979 SDL changed
its name to Relational Software, Inc. (RSI).[8] In 1982, RSI renamed itself
Oracle Systems Corporation [9] to align itself more closely with its flagship
product Oracle Database. At this stage Bob Miner served as the company's
senior programmer. In 1995, Oracle Systems Corporation changed its name to
Oracle Corporation."

Again, this makes total sense.

Apple and Microsoft were lucky from the moment of their inception to
incorporate with cleverly simple names.

[1]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_Corporation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_Corporation)

~~~
incongruity
_Apple and Microsoft were lucky from the moment of their inception to
incorporate with cleverly simple names._

Hardly. Apple was originally called "Apple Computer" and, if you recall, they
changed that in 2007 to be _more general_
([http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/apple-drops-computer-
from...](http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/apple-drops-computer-from-name/))
unlike what 37Signals has done here.

Moreover, "Microsoft" is hardly a clever or simple name -- it began as
descriptive -- software for microcomputers -- but it's obscure enough in its
construction and they've been willing to build strong sub-brands (e.g.: XBox)
so its worked.

The point is that neither reflect the strategy taken by 37Signals here -- one
that I believe will cause them problems in the future. Who else has done what
they've done? One name definitely comes to mind -- RIM becoming "Blackberry".
I'm sure there are others, but saying more about RIM would just be cheap shots
-- but suffice to say it didn't do them any favors.

------
OoTheNigerian
Lol. People, why the hate?

90% of the 'issues' raised in the comment thread including that by alexcroox
can be answered by reading the post.

Here, in case you missed it [http://37signals.com/](http://37signals.com/)

The other 10% are outright misleading.

BTW, Alex Croox, once you start a business, you must run it forever right?
Well, I have decided to build my flow around all your project here
alexcrooks.me

Don't shut any down hommie.

------
rwhitman
I'd say this has more to do with an existential crisis - the landscape for
project management collaboration tools is very crowded with competitors, and
some are vastly superior in many ways to Basecamp. I stopped using Basecamp
years ago and groan every time a client makes me log into it. The early
adopters have mostly given up on their core product.

PM collab tools are becoming a commodity product in business, and 37 Signals
got distracted and missed out on making sure that their brand was front and
foremost in customers' minds. They could have doubled down on the brand and
become the "Kleenex" of PM tools. But they waited too late and are now
scrambling to re-affirm their dominance in the space. Thats how I see this.

~~~
jasonfried
No crisis. Business has never been better. The reasons are all honest and all
clearly spelled out at [http://37signals.com](http://37signals.com). We just
don't want to hire a bunch more people and we don't want to have to spread
ourselves too thin. Focus is where it's at and we want to regain it.

------
GnwbZHiU
I still don't understand why basecamp is so popular. In my opinion it's just
an average product, nothing special about it, but it has so many users.

~~~
mhp
You underestimate the power of marketing, design, and timing then. A good
product is not a prerequisite to being popular by any means (although it
certainly helps).

------
jhund
Two thoughts on this:

1) Strategy is primarily about saying "No" to activities that are not aligned
with your goals and values. Here is a great example for saying no in a pretty
gutsy way. 2) I have used Basecamp since its launch for my client work and
like it quite a bit. However, lately I have preferred to work with Trello. I'm
curious to see how Basecamp will change in the near future. Maybe I'm not
their target customer any more...

~~~
Uchikoma
Or their move is because of Trello.

------
speeder
I was wondering from the headline if there was a merger... And from reading
the post, it downed to me: I am one of.those that never realized the Basecamp
37signals connection, and I do read their blog!

To me 37signals was that webdev shop that made Rails and had a cool blog, I
never connected them to any of their products Oo

~~~
kristiandupont
Just fyi, the idiom is "it dawned on me".

------
netcan
Software is a hard business. Novel becomes trivial fast. Competitive edge can
become a standard "best" practice fast and a product or business which was
revolutionary and profitable one decade can seem naive the next.

Basecamp needs to move to keep up. They have their commitment to "not too much
software" and simplicity which is great but has some tradeoffs. In any case,
collaboration between people working on things remotely or in the same office
using the internet is not done yet. There are still big things to be figured
out. The culture and the technology is evolving. Personally, I use Basecamp
and it is better than email for a lot of things, but there are a lot of thing
I wish it did or did differently.

In essence, there is plenty of work for a 50 person team in this space. Good
luck to them.

~~~
taude
And that space has a ton of competitors in it now, too. Some heavy hitters
like Podio, Asana, Zoho.

I don't see any reason why some of 37's other products can't get rolled up
into Basecamp as features/modules though.

~~~
henryaj
> I don't see any reason why some of 37's other products can't get rolled up
> into Basecamp as features/modules though.

Mm - that's what I assumed they would do. Slightly surprised that their plan
is to spin them off to third parties.

------
philfreo
already on the homepage:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7181940](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7181940)

------
henryaj
Basecamp may not have all the power features that some HN readers (and myself)
would want, but in retrospect that's exactly the point - it makes their
software simple and accessible.

I love these guys. 37signals are an inspiration, and I've been using and
loving Basecamp since I was 17 and running a company with my friends in
school.

To the next ten years.

~~~
buttsex
We managed dozens of clients at a time and one of the biggest compliments we
get is on how easy it is to use Basecamp. Really looking forward to the new
ideas they have in store.

------
level09
is it just me or they are saying 'in other words' that only basecamp succeeded
and most other products failed ?

otherwise why not just bring in more devs instead of focusing on one product.

~~~
jasonfried
Campfire and Highrise are not failures at all. They generate millions a year
in profits. They just aren't our focus anymore. We want to focus all of our
energy on one thing, not multiple things. Nothing more than that. No hidden
agendas or hidden news.

~~~
cstejerean
So what does this mean for the future of Campfire and Highrise?

~~~
wlll
Check out the FAQ: [http://37signals.com/](http://37signals.com/)

------
andyhnj
Am I the last guy still paying $7/month for a solo Backpack account? I've
looked for good alternatives a few times, and never found anything I like as
much as Backpack for basic note-taking. As long as they'll keep taking my $7,
I guess I'll keep using it.

~~~
skinnymuch
Haha, so am I. I thought I was the last person on it :P

------
usablebytes
People, please watch these few videos to genuinely understand what 37Signal
guys (David and Jason) stand for before having a say.

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XD2kNopsUs&list=PLuBTPnEIr6J...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XD2kNopsUs&list=PLuBTPnEIr6JJrwgxPpOD2n4OzAJzkchUJ)

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzERXJgi5vQ](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzERXJgi5vQ)
and
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPrvnlvnu-k](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPrvnlvnu-k)

and yea, don't forget
[https://twitter.com/shitmydadsays/status/10390379840929792](https://twitter.com/shitmydadsays/status/10390379840929792)

------
Grue3
10 years after they released Basecamp and apparently it's still their "best
idea". This explains why every 37signals blogpost I read was so devoid of good
ideas. One hit wonders.

~~~
rgrieselhuber
I think most people would be happy to have a single idea that provided the
basis for a multi-million dollar business. Have you had better luck?

~~~
theknown99
That's the point though. It's largely down to luck.

It's not about some cutesy generalizations you distil into a formula for
success and release as a book.

It's certainly not about what language/framework you decide to use.

~~~
3stripe
Somehow I don't think luck is the major factor in determining the success of a
SaaS business.

------
simonswords82
Whenever I think 37 Signals may have started to slow down or stop innovating
they throw another curve ball.

Nice work guys, and thanks for all the stories and transparency. Here's to the
next 15 years.

------
lucasnemeth
Single product company is more Omakase.

------
pooshoot
"When we meet people, and they ask us what we do, we say we work for
37signals. If they aren't in the tech world, they'll squint and say "what's
that?". When we say "we're the folks who make Basecamp", their eyes light up
and open wide. "Basecamp! Oh I love Basecamp!..."

I haven't seen someone so proud of their mediocre-at-best product. Basecamp
leaves A LOT to be desired. We switched to Jira and couldn't be happier.

------
thescrewdriver
Am I the only one who had never heard of 37signals before?

~~~
RafiqM
Wow, as one of the "pioneers" of the SaaS model, and a highly successful
bootstrapped startup for 10+ years, I would have to say... yes, I would
imagine you are one of very few people in this community who would have never
heard of 37signals.

~~~
theknown99
How can you be a "startup" for 10 years? Will they ever stop being a
"startup"?

~~~
officemonkey
I suppose even Yahoo and Google were "startups" at one time. 37signals
probably kept the moniker longer than other businesses because they were
profitable early, and they didn't need or want to grow fast for growth's sake.

~~~
petercooper
_and they didn 't need or want to grow fast for growth's sake._

The HN/YC model of a "startup" is something that is growing rapidly, as per
[http://www.paulgraham.com/growth.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/growth.html),
so perhaps 37signals was _never_ a startup in the HN use of the term ;-)

------
mathattack
Very interesting. 2 observations:

1) Will they lose the ability to experiment as a one product company?

2) "If we can't find the right partner or buyer, we are committed to
continuing to run the products for our existing customers forever." This is
very impressive. Forever is a long time, and comes with a real cost if you're
not putting in new users.

Bravo for a successful company to be willing to make big strategic moves.

------
faramarz
Me thinks they are feeling some pressure from rising stars like Asana and they
are quickly trying to solidify their lead before it's too late.

~~~
droopyEyelids
I don't think Asana competes with base camp, at all. It's an over customizable
nightmare that you need engineers to administer for Big Corps. It competes
with Jira. Basecamp is something that a nontechnical person can use.

------
keehun
Can anyone name a trust-worthy competitors? I've done some searching and most
competitors seem to be still branded with "Web 2.0" bubbles and the apps left
rotting in its own feces the last 5 years.

I'm genuinely looking for competitors to Basecamp for small businesses. Zoho?

------
LeicaLatte
Not sure about the move itself but I am glad they chose Basecamp. Started
using Basecamp in 2005 and still use it. Basecamp is a nice umbrella all their
products seem to fit into.

And I am for making the company and the product as one. One less thing to
sell. For companies of that size.

------
wj
I had just signed up for Highrise but haven't started implementing it yet.
Sounds like the product will live on but I wouldn't mind some recommendations
for alternatives if anybody has some.

I've used both Salesforce and SugarCRM and they seem a bit overkill for my
use.

~~~
melvinram
PipelineDeals and Pipedrive are both I've used and would recommend. If I had
to narrow to one, I'd go with PipelineDeals.

------
rootuid
TeamWork.com their biggest competitor, did this last week.

~~~
doodyhead
It's great to see an Irish start-up having such a big impact globally.

------
bovermyer
Bravo, Basecamp. This is a wise move. Also, you clearly showed a lot of
thought about where the other products will go with your scenarios. I approve.

~~~
jasonfried
Thanks. Glad it came through as clear in the end.

------
anon808
This makes perfect sense, and the 'spin-out' of knowyourcompany.com now makes
even more sense. I think it's a good move.

------
kesor
Who will buy Campfire? Atlassian or GitHub?

~~~
daveoflynn
Atlassian already owns HipChat.

Bet GitHub steps up, as they use it already.

~~~
theknown99
Github would be better to write a campfire clone in a day or so, and roll it
out.

I'm betting github has a larger userbase than campfire, so what would be the
point in paying a few million for campfire?

~~~
adrinavarro
The talent and know-how?

I thought we were already past the "why buy it if you can copy it".

~~~
theknown99
"Talent and know how"? Seriously?

Is writing a webchat client some black dark art?

There's nothing much you need to know to write a webchat client. Campfire
isn't high volume, so it doesn't need to be too efficient either. Last time I
checked campfire processes a few messages a second. Heck you could rewrite it
in PHP/MySQL if you were that way inclined.

Campfire didn't succeed because it was a good product. It succeeded because
they marketed it to their "following" who bought into it.

~~~
timjahn
Your arm chair quarterbacking is adding oh so much to the conversation.

Are we really back to the childish argument of "this is so easy to build,
would just take a few minutes"?

~~~
theknown99
I'm not sure it's quite arm chair quarterbacking. I've written a few webchat
clients.

The point is, if you bought campfire, all you'd really be buying is the
existing customer base.

------
psteinweber
Simple wins, and they know it!

------
MattBearman
So does this mean all their other products will be killed / sold?

~~~
wbercx
They will be kept alive one way or another, as described if you check out the
link.

~~~
MattBearman
Ah, ok. I did read the article, but it was a half read, half skim, so I must
have missed that.

------
contingencies
TLDR; 37signals -> 1 signal: "basecamp"

------
Angostura
No mention of Trello, I see.

~~~
dirtyaura
Why would they mention competiting product?

~~~
Angostura
Because Trello is a Basecamp product?

------
jacobr
> When we meet people, and they ask us what we do, we say we work for
> 37signals. If they aren't in the tech world, they'll squint and say "what's
> that?". When we say "we're the folks who make Basecamp", their eyes light up
> and open wide. "Basecamp! Oh I love Basecamp! _My wife uses Basecamp too!_
> [my emphasis] Even our church uses Basecamp!"

So, "people" = men?

~~~
yen223
Sometimes, right before I submit a comment I'd ask myself, "What do I hope to
achieve by writing this comment? Will people be entertained by this comment?
Will the audience find their worldview challenged? Would the world be better
off with the comment I'm about to make, or am I just wasting everyone's time?"

I'd suggest you do the same.

------
keeptrying
This smells like they are going to try to pull a Atlassian.

And they will also go take VC money ... Going to be fun to watch :)

~~~
jasonfried
Yes, it will be fun to watch, but no VC money. Not our thing. We have all the
money we need to do everything and anything we want to do.

~~~
keeptrying
But Atlassian dreams? :) Good for you guys.

