

Flair – HVAC 2.0 - dmritard96
http://www.flair.zone

======
bdash
Small nit: the website uses a <video> element and only provides an Ogg Theora
video. This means that the video isn't visible in Safari on OS X and iOS, or
in Internet Explorer on Windows. In Safari on OS X this results in an empty
set of controls being visible for the video element. In Safari on iOS I see a
non-functional play button where the video would be. Furthermore, since the
<source> element doesn't have a type attribute browsers have no way of knowing
up front that they can't play the video and are forced to start loading the
video to determine if it's playable.

~~~
rith87
@bdash Sorry for the delay; we had a whole bunch of meetings in the past few
days. The video plays on Safari on OSX and iOS and IE on Windows. Thanks for
reporting the issues :)!

------
XorNot
I'm curious how this batteryless technology is supposed to work. Without a
secondary source of power you're really just playing the idle game with
electronics. Is there secondary power (small wind turbine using the HVAC
breeze?)

~~~
dsl
Seebeck generator, I assume. Basically stick two different types of metals
together and generate electricity when the temperature changes (i.e. every
time the central air kicks on and off)

~~~
jzwinck
Not when the A/C turns on and off, but rather the entire time it is running.
The hot side would be exposed to the room, cold side to the duct (and vice
versa when heating).

~~~
dsl
Implementation details. My point was really, it's not secret sauce.

------
noddingham
This is cool tech but I wonder about the efficiency claims. Depending upon how
the HVAC system is designed, where vents are located and where return air is
located, you could cause the HVAC system to run less efficiently if you alter
the air flow through the home.

~~~
Frozenlock
This.

HVAC controls most work as a team, otherwise they end up fighting each other.

As a simple example, picture an office building in which each room has a
temperature sensor and air supply.

If a room says "Oh, it's hot here!" The system will try to send cooler air.

Now, imagine that in one of those rooms, there's a little lady who's a little
cold. The system however, is in cooling mode, because the room is slightly
warmer than the temperature setpoint.

The lady won't have it a decides to bring an electric heater. Now she is
heating her room and feels more comfortable. From the point of view of the
system, her room is much warmer than it should be. As a consequence, the
system sends even more cooler air to her room.

The lady now has to crank up her electric heater to counteract this increase
in cooler air...

~~~
dmritard96
There are quite a bit of assumptions to counter here but the first most basic
one is that this is intended for office buildings. It is intended primarily at
residential after market energy efficiency and comfort retrofits. I

Relating your heater example. This applies to current systems even. You plug
in an electric heater under your thermostat and its working to cool while you
are heating...you simply wouldnt do that.

------
Bluestrike2
Very interesting, but it doesn't look like it'd work too well with floor vents
(stubbed toes and the like, not to mention durability in case someone or even
a pet steps on it). Any chance you're already looking at the problem?

~~~
jzwinck
Why would floor vents be a problem? Existing, manual dampers in floor vents
often have the moving parts recessed below floor level. The one extra issue
might be increased chance of spilling liquids on the unit.

~~~
Bluestrike2
The prototype appears to mount on top of existing vents and the dampers are
also fully exposed room-side. A device that's sticking up an inch from the
floor rather than being flush is going to have problems, whether it's tripping
or stubbing your toes over it (and dislodging it by doing so) or just damaging
the dampers by accidentally stepping on it. That said, I imagine that it's
pretty likely that they'll have a solution for it when they get to market.

------
adamfeldman
Would it be more economical to install in a large home than 3 Nest
thermostats? We're talking 3 separate compressors...not my house

~~~
dmritard96
I'm not 100% clear on what you are describing but I'll take a stab. I think
you are saying that in order to have a similar 'microzoning' concept, an
alternative might be 3 Nests and 3 corresponding compressors.

As a retrofit (say, 1 compressor -> 3 compressors [would probably have to
ditch the original], ducting changes and 2 additional nests [assuming you
already have one]), I would say flair will be more economical. That being
said, even if you had a 'large' home with 3 nests and 3 compressors, it is
still going to have N rooms corresponding to a single thermostat hence
opportunity for efficiency gains and comfort improvement.

while flair is a distributed thermostat, it builds on top of Nest in a
complementary fashion rather than competing with it.

------
KaiserPro
So the revolution is to have per room thermostats?

~~~
dmritard96
per room routing. Just knowing the temperature in multiple places doesn't give
you anything actionable.

------
crdoconnor
Nice to see a home automation system with privacy features for once.

------
ansgri
This crashes my Chromium.

~~~
dmritard96
what version. I can try and reproduce

------
dang
We took "Show HN" out of the title. From the guidelines:

 _If your work isn 't ready for people to try out yet, [...] please don't put
"Show HN" in the title. Once it's ready, come back and share it then._

[https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html)

~~~
dmritard96
eeks, sorry about that.

~~~
dang
No worries, and make sure to do the Show HN when it's ready.

