
Microsoft apparently removing ‘Offline Accounts’ for international Windows users - vezycash
https://www.onmsft.com/news/microsoft-apparently-removing-offline-accounts-settings-for-international-windows-10-users
======
merricksb
Already discussed yesterday:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22382710](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22382710)

(132 points/129 comments)

------
lstamour
This might be old news. The “Offline Account” link appears in Windows 10 Pro
but not Windows 10 Home. It’s unclear which version this is.

[https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/222344/microsoft...](https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/222344/microsoft-
made-major-setup-changes-in-windows-10-version-1909)

~~~
nolok
Agreed, what they say Microsoft is "starting to export outside NA" is already
the norm here in France since at least this summer.

If the computer is connected to the network in anyway, there is absolutely no
way to install with an offline account. Removing all rj45 and not connecting
to the wifi until that step is passed allows to use a local account like
before.

Still not a path I like to see them take

~~~
sys_64738
This almost sounds like they're trying to force a subscription model for Home
users at some point. Give away the OS for free for a good while then charge a
buck a month to use it. Most will cave to the model to keep using it then they
can slowly turn up the fire.

------
jsjddbbwj
Unplug the network cable before you launch the installer.

This was discussed too
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22382710](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22382710)

------
PeterStuer
If you are not Internet connected during the install, the system will still
offer you the option to proceed with the creation of a local account.

~~~
sys_64738
This is so wrong. I hope that this type of thing encourages people to look at
the alternatives like GenToo or Arch Linux.

~~~
timbit42
You mean it is wrong of Microsoft, not that the comment you replied to is
wrong.

------
RaleyField
I use Linux, I am pretty ambivalent about Windows, I don't like adware and
telemetry in my paid-for software but if they really start doing that honestly
that will irritate me enough to start pushing people to Ubuntu when that's
possible.

~~~
jevgeni
Well, if the software is paid in full, there are no ads.

~~~
alxlaz
This is not true. I have Win 10 Pro on my work laptop. It's very much "paid in
full". Some of the things I paid in full for include Bubble Witch 3 Saga,
Candy Crush Saga and Candy Crush Friends, and the Start menu came pre-
populated with a bunch of ads for similarly useful apps (edit: among other
things).

Edit: if someone who's more Windows-savvy than this ol' Unix nerd knows what
information I ought to edit out of a screenshot so that I can safely share it,
I have the screenshot, too. This "if you pay for Win 10 Pro there are no ads"
crap pops up every single damn time so I took a screenshot of my laptop's
untouched Win 10 Pro installation.

~~~
pjmlp
Apparently when a GNU/Linux installation shows messages to try out stuff, it
is "spreading the good for the community", or has a modified motd, when one
gets a couple of links on the start menu, easily removed by right clicking on
them, it is "bloody Microsoft".

~~~
alxlaz
I'm not sure how that's relevant here. Does my post say anything about what
Ubuntu does being excusable in any way?

Edit: also, FWIW, running apt-get upgrade doesn't re-enable the ads in the
MOTD :-)

~~~
jevgeni
The whataboutism defense is absolutely failing at this point. If there was
material criticism on HN of say Ubuntu or other providers for the same stuff
Microsoft gets criticized your words might've been credible. But there isn't
and they are not.

Pretending to be fair and objective is not the same thing as being fair and
objective.

~~~
alxlaz
Whataboutism is a logical fallacy even when the "what about" thing doesn't get
enough attention. If Ubuntu got more criticism on HN, would the ads you see on
Windows become less intrusive, or more appropriate?

But FWIW, Ubuntu absolutely got, and still gets, plenty of criticism for that,
even here on HN.

~~~
jevgeni
Just like the "fallacy fallacy" is also a fallacy.

That's not the point I'm debating. Whether I'm OK with product design choices
of Microsoft is my own consumer decision. But what __really __is getting old,
is the utterly predictable and abysmal level of discourse on this matter on
HN, Reddit or wherever.

My point is, that since the Internet has learned about whataboutism, it is
being used to shut down any criticism of bias. In fact, your comment uses the
common formula for that "Just because A does B, doesn't mean that C can do B."

Sure, but then your actions don't really correspond to your words. If you take
the amount of privacy invasion in Android, for example, HN should be loosing
their collective shit on a daily basis. They don't.

This is obviously just people emotionally bashing things they have been taught
are outside of their "tribe".

And that has zero credibility.

~~~
alxlaz
I'm sorry but really none of this makes any sense to me.

How exactly did you reach the conclusion that "my actions don't really
correspond to my words" based on how HN collectively treats Android? What
actions are you talking about specifically? Using Android? I don't.

An how exactly does this post:

"I'm not sure how that's relevant here. Does my post say anything about what
Ubuntu does being excusable in any way?"

follow this formula:

"Just because A does B, doesn't mean that C can do B."

My original reply said nothing about anything other than Windows, and my
second post hinted that I think both Canonical _and_ Microsoft are wrong in
doing this. If I followed any formula, I'm pretty sure that's "neither A nor C
should be doing B", which is as far removed from whataboutism as criticizing
bias is removed from astroturfing.

~~~
jevgeni
> How exactly did you reach the conclusion that "my actions don't really
> correspond to my words" based on how HN collectively treats Android? What
> actions are you talking about specifically? Using Android? I don't.

I wasn't talking about you, the individual. It's a disembodied, collective
"you" of HN. It's a rhetorical turn of phrase.

I don't know what to say to the rest. It's pretty obvious to me. If you don't
get it, you don't get it.

Also, on astroturfing:

"Astroturfing is the practice of masking the sponsors of a message or
organization to make it appear as though it originates from and is supported
by grassroots participants."

????

------
StanislavPetrov
I've has MS-DOS and/or Windows as one of my boot options on all of my systems
for gaming purposes for 30+ years, but the day they mandate a Microsoft
account is the day I finally ditch them all together.

~~~
pjmlp
You can use the iCloud or Google Play ones instead.

~~~
xylol
How can you use these to login to windows? Using a PC offline makes sense for
many reasons, taking this away reduces the value of the OS.

~~~
pjmlp
By making the point that Microsoft is a follower in this regard, yet the
community complains about them as if Apple and Google eco-systems were some
kind of angels.

~~~
StanislavPetrov
I don't use Apple or Google services.

~~~
pjmlp
So using a feature phone.

~~~
StanislavPetrov
Flip phone. I don't believe in trading my privacy for convenience, much less
being coerced into doing so by Microsoft or any other corporation.

------
qalmakka
Happened to me two weeks ago while installing windows 10 1909 Home - I just
unplugged the ethernet cable and it let me create an offline account... It's
still crap and not acceptable though.

------
jinushaun
Recently ran into this “bug”. Fixed it by unplugging my network cable during
installation. I’m normally a Mac user, but I understand why so many people
hate Windows 10. Hard to make the argument this benefits users.

------
timwis
So basically the android approach

~~~
enitihas
Nope, windows phone took the Android approach. Anyways, android is usable
without signing into a google account. You can use the Amazon app store (which
has most of popular apps), or fdroid or download apk files yourself like
windows of old.

Windows is a paid product, Android is not. Apart from including ridiculous ads
and telemetry some of which can't be disabled, Windows seems to be taking user
hosting steps every day.

~~~
jevgeni
The fact that you have to actively and deliberately fork over cash for
Windows, but not for Android, where it's hidden -- that really seems to trip
people up.

~~~
enitihas
And it's not hidden in windows, where you have candy crush pre-installed and
ads in the start menu. So in windows, you fork over cash, give your data, and
then have to seem some ads.

~~~
pjmlp
Candy crush is not pre-installed, it is just a link to the store, easily
removable with right mouse click.

Gee, I never saw people complain this way with Solitaire, Mineswepper, GNOME
Games Suit, or the dump of floppies they would get on their Atari/Amiga/PC
bundles.

~~~
shakna
> Gee, I never saw people complain this way with Solitaire, Mineswepper, GNOME
> Games Suit, or the dump of floppies they would get on their Atari/Amiga/PC
> bundles.

Strange. Especially as those didn't actively run analytics when you run them.
Perhaps those two situations aren't completely comparable.

~~~
jevgeni
This is very little to do with privacy matters if you look at the comments
here.

------
TazeTSchnitzel
I wonder if this would be illegal in the EEA under GDPR? Tricking the user
into “consenting” is not really obtaining consent.

