
Fairphone 2: world's first modular phone goes on sale - rwmj
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-34982724
======
rsync
I've been browsing their (extremely heavy, intensive) website trying to figure
out "what are the modules" ... and all I can see is that there is a removable
battery and that I could replace/repair parts like camera and speaker and so
on.

But it looks to me that all of the actual functions of the phone are
integrated into one big SoC.

That misses the entire point of a modular computing device - phone or
otherwise.

I want a wireless comms module (which contains not just the wifi/bt/cellular
antennas, but the chipset itself) that I can remove or _hard_ disable with a
switch.

I want an inputs module that contains _not just_ the mic and speaker, but
their enabling circuitry so I can remove it or _hard_ disable it with a
switch.

I want a GPS module ... a USB ports module ... a camera module.

That's what a modular smartphone is all about. There's nothing modular about a
big monster (closed, telco-owned, user-hostile) SoC that contains all of the
actual functions.

~~~
jansc
I disagree (Disclaimer: I'm one of the early backers). The current trend in
mobile phones is towards more closed systems. Components are glued together,
and often it's not often possible for a user to even change a battery. That's
what I would call a big monster.

The Fairphone is the first phone to get a 10/10 repairability score from
ifixit. Though there could be more components, it's definitely a step in the
right direction. The whole point is to a able to use that phone for 4-5 years.
If one part breaks (touchscreen, battery), you can replace that part yourself.
If a better camera becomes available, I can choose to update just the camera
instead of buying a new phone. Cheaper for me as a user and better for the
environment.

~~~
Swizec
All my iPhones have lasted 4-5 years. Granted I had to get the screen replaced
on one of them after my bird dropped it off the counter.

Wtf are you people doing with your phones? I downright abuse mine (think
longboarding falls at 50kph with phone flying out of pocket) and it survives
all.

~~~
nerfhammer
You have a bird that carries your phone?

~~~
StavrosK
It's UK slang for girl.

~~~
Swizec
I also have an actual bird who once pushed my phone off the counter because
he's a dick.

------
djsumdog
It's about time. There's almost no difference between the Sony Z1c and Z1c
except the Z1c is made of metal instead of plastic and is actually a better
phone. Why are we replacing our every two years when phones from 2012 should
still be able to do most of what we need to? Why are some of our newer phones
built worse?!

The only thing I'm afraid of is this company won't survive because, after
initial purchases, there'll be no reason to buy new phones. They'd need to
grow horizontally, pulling in more customers from other brands.

They'd also have to push upgrades for cameras, screens, etc to keep existing
users buying new parts. Even with an amazing device like this conceptually,
capitalism and consumerism will find ways to rear their ugly heads to make
this business with a superior product fight for survival while those companies
with less durable/upgradeable hardware will tend to make more money because
they can always push the latest device to the market.

~~~
gsnedders
> There's almost no difference between the Sony Z1c and Z1c

I wouldn't expect there to be. :)

~~~
djsumdog
Oops Z3C vs Z1C :)

------
GFischer
Specs look good, and the value proposition is interesting, as many articles
state, it's about time a manufacturer did something different.

My wishlist for this kind of phones:

\- OS support and updates beyond the standard 1 or 2 years (TBD, but I think
they're aiming for a 3 year lifecycle)

\- upgradable RAM, check :)

\- upgradable internal memory, check :)

\- replaceable battery, check :)

\- glass fixable separately, nope (they do say it's much more sturdy than
standard phones though)

\- alternative OSs, check :)

things that don't influence my buying decision that much

\- fairly traded materials (their original value proposition, which DID appeal
a lot to the early backers :) )

Their success depends on appeal beyond their initial core backers, and whether
someone comes up with cool or killer app modules :) (they mention some like
solar cells, etc.)

~~~
rzwitserloot
Unfortunately this ships with an already outdated version of android and
fairphone has explicitly said they will not guarantee support for Marshmallow.
They have solid reasons for this, but that is a pretty big down side as a
potential customer.

In fact, I'll go so far as to say: If the android OS cannot be kept updated,
claiming that this phone has what it takes to last you more than 2 years is
ridiculous. Even if you somehow get to keep security updates coming, there
will be features in the new OS that are worth upgrading for even if the
hardware is still perfectly fine, and apps will begin requiring an OS version
you don't have.

~~~
gcb0
newer version of android stop being relevant after 4.4

down vote all you want, but there's no security or functionality after that.
only silly animations and insane bright color schemes.

~~~
skybrian
Android 6 fixes the permission system. That's pretty fundamental.

[http://developer.android.com/training/permissions/requesting...](http://developer.android.com/training/permissions/requesting.html)

~~~
gcb0
that's in my list of useless features.

if you don't use your phone like clueless people used their computers (i.e.
install 20 browser tool bars and such) you have zero need for it.

also, that was included since 2.3 but never exposed (some custom firmwares
did)

~~~
mcintyre1994
I disagree. There are perfectly reasonable reasons for Facebook's messenger
app to request access to my photos (so I can send them). If I don't use that
feature though, there's no reason they should be able to secretly upload all
my photos - which they could if they got the permission at install.

------
chinathrow
The cost breakdown is astonishing. Close to 40 EUR or 10% of the average net
sales price goes away for IP roalties.

[http://fairphone.com/costbreakdown/](http://fairphone.com/costbreakdown/)

I would love to see which IP holders receive what portion for their IP.

~~~
mschuster91
Most likely the usual suspects: MPEG LA (for hardware video decoding),
Microsoft (FAT patents), Google Play license, reference designs for the
hardware, WiFi/BT/GSM licenses and patents, ARM and others for the CPU design.

------
limaoscarjuliet
If I can use PC ecosystem as an analog, in grand scheme of things this will
offer no price reduction to end consumer.

Me and my son just upgraded his PC. It was a 4 yr old PC. We wanted new
graphics card and we had to replace entire PC except power supply (barely!)
and the case.

Even more fun, we wanted to build a PC from the leftover parts for friend of
my son who is less fortunate. OK not top of the shelf, but he can play some
games. We ended up spending $150 for new power supply, overpriced memory
(DDR2), thermal grease, new fan (plastic leg broke off the original) and set
of screws (where are they when you need them?).

In the end, upgrade = new PC, setting up the old one was still super expensive
($150).

Another factor is: these phones get a beating in daily use. While it may still
make sense (technically) to keep some components during upgrade, they will be
in bad bad shape.

It may make sense in context of repairs. Just like a car: I will fix it buying
parts as needed, but after N years and M miles I will replace it.

~~~
tshadwell
I also recently upgraded the GPU in my ~4 year old PC, it cost me only the
price of the new GPU and it's one of the only upgrades I've needed to make in
that time.

It sounds like you're kind of an outlier in the build your own PC market --
it's pretty impressive you managed to find a motherboard supporting only the
old DDR2 ram and having to replace the CPU fan. You also seem to have had to
replace the motherboard to support your (likely PCI-E) GPU. Even before I
built my first computer PCI-E was long supported by even cheap pre-built PCs.

There's a sweet spot around $600 for a PC, if you buy in this range you'll
save money because you won't need to upgrade the majority of components in
many years. I often recommend logicalincrements.com as it has PC prices per-
component in tiers.

$150 is insanely cheap for a gaming PC and I don't think $150 has ever been
"super expensive" by PC standards.

~~~
nickpsecurity
"There's a sweet spot around $600 for a PC, if you buy in this range you'll
save money because you won't need to upgrade the majority of components in
many years. I often recommend logicalincrements.com as it has PC prices per-
component in tiers."

Exactly. It's the same mantra I've always used when doing computer builds.
Incidentally, the last gaming rig [1] I built was about $600 with more power
than necessary. :)

[1] [http://elitegamingcomputers.com/gaming-
computers/#2](http://elitegamingcomputers.com/gaming-computers/#2)

------
hackuser
I think the 'fair trade' aspects are important and should be universal. I'd
also like to see equal concern for 'fair trade' for consumers, who shouldn't
have to accept being spied upon.

I've spent months trying to find a reasonably simple way to have a smartphone
where I have end-user control over my data and communications, and it seems
impossible (without building my own phone or OS).

I know many people don't care; that's fine for them, but I should have the
option.

------
lovelearning
URL: [https://www.fairphone.com/phone/](https://www.fairphone.com/phone/)

------
heavenlyhash
I'm eagerly awaiting the market's return to phones that you can actually fit
in your human-sized hands. Bigger is not always better.

I recently bought a phone that's so large it takes both hands to operate it.
If I'm grasping it reasonably tightly, my thumb can't navigate to over 30% of
the screen. If I stretch uncomfortably to try to reach those areas, the phone
is likely to slip out of my fingertips entirely. I do not have small hands.

I'm not sure what the market standard definition of "phablet" is, but for me,
a 136mm x 68mm device has served me fine for years, and this new device (which
I'm returning after almost accidentally throwing it across the train for the
n'th time in as many days) is 148mm x 76mm. Apparently that extra ten
millimeters is a big deal. (Interesting to look at Apple's product page for
their sizes. They measured this too, evidentially -- the 6 and 6s went up to
exactly 138x67 and aren't budging; they use the Plus series to probe over that
line.)

The fairphone2 is 143x73 -- it's not as big as some other flagships on the
market right now, so huge kudos for winning the miniaturization battles so far
-- but I bet they're falling prey to competing on screen size, and
frustratingly, though I'm interested in everything else about this phone, I'm
honestly not sure _I 'll be able to hold it in my hand_.

~~~
rsync
"I'm eagerly awaiting the market's return to phones that you can actually fit
in your human-sized hands. Bigger is not always better."

I never bought a smartphone because I never wanted to carry around huge
devices ... for the last few years I have used a motorola F3 ("moto fone")[1].
I _loved_ this phone.

It finally broke, however, so I was forced to buy a modern phone, and I found
the Neptune "pine"[2] which is a phone-watch, but you can detach it from the
watch band and it essentially becomes a very, very tiny _full featured_
android phone.

I have been using it for about two months and it is great - it's basically a
very tiny hotspot device that I use for mobile wifi and bluetooth, etc., and
it works great as a phone ... and texting/typing isn't ideal, but it works.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Fone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Fone)

[2] [https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/neptune/neptune-pine-
sm...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/neptune/neptune-pine-smartwatch-
reinvented)

~~~
nickpsecurity
Looks more lightweight than the last secure phone design I had. The need for
dedicated chips for CPU hardening, baseband firewall, and power isolation made
it quite bulky. Looking for a commercial model, I settled on this:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_9000_Communicator](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_9000_Communicator)

Didn't build it for obvious reasons. It was the shit back in the day, though,
with probably some people willing to buy if they get trusted chips. Not sure
enough on return to want to risk it, though.

------
Animats
If the goal is reliability, modularity may not be the right way to get there.
Why not just build something tough enough that it doesn't break? There are
militarized rugged smartphones.[2] You will break before they do.[3] If you
bend the frame on your modular repairable smartphone, you can't fix it anyway.

If the goal is upgradability, you don't just need modularity. You need a whole
ecosystem building components to some standard. The Fairphone doesn't have
that. Google, in 2014, was talking about an upgradable modular phone held
together by magnets. It didn't work very well; if dropped, it fell apart.[4]

IFixit likes it if you can unscrew and replace every part. This does help
maintainability. But do you want to go there? Here's the extreme case of that
- a Model 15 Teletype. Every small part, of about 2000 of them, is
replaceable. Here's repairing a damaged Model 15 from a dumpster, something I
did last year.[1] Just because you can doesn't mean it's an effective use of
time.

Phones should Just Work. Make them indestructible, not field-modifiable.

[1]
[http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,43672.0.html](http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,43672.0.html)
[2] [http://www.catphones.com](http://www.catphones.com) [3]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVPku-
xItv8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVPku-xItv8) [4]
[http://www.techtimes.com/articles/77985/20150819/googles-
pro...](http://www.techtimes.com/articles/77985/20150819/googles-project-ara-
phone-falls-apart-when-dropped-release-pushed.htm)

------
l1feh4ck
Actual phone cost 12K. Repairing cost 13K (INR)

I would like to share a terrible experience which I had with Micromax. I got a
brand new phone Micromax Canvas A350 (2GB ram, Octa core processor) as a gift.

After a week of use I accidentally dropped the phone and broke the screen. I
took it to Micromax service center and they asked me for 6K to change the
screen. Since the warranty does not cover these type of damages.

A local repairing shop fixed the screen for 2K but now the warranty is
violated. After a month of use power button failed and GSM signal receiving is
too weak. I opened to phone to see that the antina wire was broken. (which
connected GSM module to the mother board)

I took the phone to Micromax customer care they gave me a list of things to
replace: Whole case + GSM module. Total cost : 7K + 6K = 13K.

Only things broken was a power button and a simple wire which will not even
cost 10 INR. The cost of a new phone is only 12K

~~~
ymse
10K Indian Rupee (INR) ~ USD $150.

------
voltagex_
I'm fairly sure the bootloader fuse will still be blown on this as it's a
retail Qualcomm board - no bootloader upgrades for you.

~~~
justin66
> the bootloader fuse will still be blown on this

What does that mean?

~~~
joenathan
Practically nothing in this case. In the case of a phone like the S6, Samsung
detects if the fuse is blown, indicating modification by the user, and will
disable certain features, fingerprint reader, Samsung Pay, etc..

~~~
voltagex_
Maybe I've got it wrong in my head, I thought it disallowed modification of
the stage 1 loader (in the case of the Nexus 4 and 5, it's LK)

------
Fradow
I like the idea. The execution, on the other hand, not so much (especially
compared to Ara project, from the pictures seen so far).

From the animation on FairPhone site, I counted 17 screws and 6 standoff. How
many people, who would not even try to repair their phone will find this easy
enough to start repairing their phone?

For comparison sake, there are 10 screws on a Nexus 5 (according iFixit
teardown). Sure, the Nexus 5 (or other smartphone) will be a little harder to
repair. But the difference is far from huge, and won't make someone take a
FairPhone over another "good enough" smartphone, repairability-wise.

The upgrade ability? Sure, it might be nice. But, as the PC market as
demonstrated (which has a lot less contraints, too), you can only go so far,
until you need to replace the whole thing. Since it's not a well-established
project, it's not even a sure-bet you'll still find parts at an affordable
price in a few years time. And at that price point, it's not a given that
FairPhone + upgrades in a few years costs less than one similar phone now, and
a similar to the upgraded in a few years.

That leaves social impact and openness principles. That might appeal to part
of the geeky crowd (the ones that buys Librem), and social-aware persons, if
they are not turned off by the price. Let's see if it's enough to sustain a
smartphone line. In the current saturated market, I have some doubts.

~~~
zlatan_todoric
>From the animation on FairPhone site, I counted 17 screws and 6 standoff. How
many people, who would not even try to repair their phone will find this easy
enough to start repairing their phone?

So we developed into society where 17 screws is such a major problem to deal
with it... Also people who wouldn't not even try to repair their phone will
not try even if there is no screw.

In my opinion such phone should appeal to what you call geeky crowd and from
there it should initiate some social change (probably via media such as
Internet) where changing 17 screws will not be difficult task but highly
rewarding in terms of being human and hardware/cost wise. After that it should
spread to people and with it the hardware becomes industrial standard (parts
at least) so the price of changing goes down both in cost and finding them.

------
drewm1980
If we really want to get serious about keeping our phones for more than a few
years, we need to solve the problem of software bloat. I would love to see an
open ecosystem with some sort of distributed benchmark so apps are strongly
incentivized to be implemented efficiently. Which of the 1,000 egg timer apps
should you pick? The one that doesn't run out your battery before the egg is
cooked! But how on earth do you even know which one that is in the current
ecosystem?

~~~
vostrocity
On iOS, I find that it's mostly the OS that becomes unusable. However, that's
an interesting idea.

------
voltagex_
Looks like about the same price as a Nexus 5X in Australia, excluding
shipping.

Wouldn't it be more environmentally friendly to keep my current phone or to
buy a second hand one?

~~~
avtar
The order page states "Designed for use and service in Europe only". Hang on
to the Nexus 5 :)

------
frik
It's a first good step.

What I want is freedom of PC hardware of the 1990s in a smaller form factor. A
smartphone consists of a system-on-chip (SoC) computer, memory chip, modem,
display, cameras, antennas, sensors, card slots, battery - all could be
modular. And be of a convinient form factor so that several companies offer
such parts.

Android took the omnipresence role of Windows 95 on smartphones and tablets
(though Android device driver are hard to find).

Back in 2006 I had a modular notebook built by an OEM sold under different
brands. (picture:
[http://p-fst1.pixstatic.com/51b62f6dfb04d67b66000b29._w.540_...](http://p-fst1.pixstatic.com/51b62f6dfb04d67b66000b29._w.540_s.fit_.JPEG)
) What a great hardware platform.

In 2016 the notebook market is in a bad shape - business notebooks: lower
build quality (no Thinkpad robustness), higher prices and no modular notebook
platform. And on PC the trusted computing (UEFI, GPT, Palladium) accelerated
by Microsoft is hostile to non-Windows 8+ operating systems. Hopefully, the
EFF can do something there.

~~~
watchdogtimer
Have you considered the pi-top ([http://www.pi-top.com](http://www.pi-
top.com))? It sounds like it has many of the features you are looking for.

------
voltagex_
This phone is too expensive for me right now but this is utterly excellent:
[http://shop.fairphone.com/catalog/category/view/id/10](http://shop.fairphone.com/catalog/category/view/id/10)

~~~
moonbug
Assuming those are all the parts one needs to construct a full phone, you save
around 50% of the list of the assembled unit by building it yourself.

~~~
usrusr
That list are the parts of the FP-1, which is an entirely different phone than
the recently unveiled second generation. And a much cheaper one, even when it
was new, so there is definitely no hidden self-assemble bargain. But things
certainly do look good for repair!

------
jkot
Apple is absolute nightmare, but most other makers have pretty serviceable
products.

Checkout youtube videos for Samsung or Lenovo phones. In amateur conditions it
takes about 10 minutes to replace "build-in" battery. Or 30 minutes to replace
broken glass or motherboard.

~~~
cbeach
That's a bogus argument. Any flagship phone from Samsung or Lenovo will make
the same tradeoffs that Apple does between thinness/weight and user-
servicability.

In any case, you suggest Samsung/Lenovo phones take 10 minutes for a battery
replacement. The iPhone 6 takes just four minutes:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgmtNJuqEHI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgmtNJuqEHI)

~~~
nickpsecurity
"The iPhone 6 takes just four minutes"

Jesus, it's gotten that bad...?

------
unusximmortalis
I am looking forward for the similar idea for cars to be realised.

~~~
tbarbugli
good news, it's already like this. you can buy parts and replace them yourself
:O

~~~
unusximmortalis
you don't get it...

