
I bought my daughter heroin - happy-go-lucky
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-39212295
======
M_Grey
I read this yesterday on the BBC, and was struck by, among many other things,
the fact that this woman was put into this position in the first place. Most
of all, that she was essentially turned into a criminal through the failure of
the state. I also hope that people can read that, and understand the trap that
so many addicts find themselves in. Instead of medical treatment they're
referred to 12 step programs or told to "kick it", unless of course you can
pay, of you're lucky.

The system is set up to create failure and re-offense, although I'm not
arguing that it was designed that way, the result is the same. All of this
comes down to a single root cause _which can be addressed_ : the "war on
drugs". It's insane, it's wasteful, it's already going to have generations of
negative impacts around the world. The sooner we stop it, the sooner we can
start to heal the damage.

~~~
RobertoG
Apart from the terrible human suffering that drugs (and their criminalization
create), there is another factor that is not, in my opinion, discussed enough.

Drugs are and amazing business and making them illegal, make rich to the worst
kind of people. It's giving power to the last people you would want in power.

So, in the consumer countries you have addicts suffering. In the producers
countries you have wars and societies totally corrupted, and the worst of the
worst get rich.

Amazing strategy.

It looks more like a war on humanity that a war on drugs.

~~~
erikpukinskis
It's not a war on humanity it's a war on the working class. The capital class
can pay lower wages the more of the labor class are dealing with drug addicted
family members. Because it makes the employee afraid.

Companies make a 2x, 3x, 10x, 100x premium off of labor. The only way they can
do that is with a perceived shortage of "work". The way they do that is to
make enough political instability that a strong single digit percentage of
people are visibly falling through the cracks of solvency. Drugs help.

Many business owners are aware on some level that they could double salaries
and stay solvent, but they don't think about it, they think in terms of
"market rates" for labor, and they want rates to be as low as possible, so
they subconsciously collude in cultural movements which make work seem scarce,
and life scary and chaotic.

Their brains don't drift to the "what if we all just work hard and get paid a
fair share? what if every employee was on a partner track?" scenario because
they would lose money. And they're the ones deciding what the partner
agreement says so it doesn't change.

There's no technical reason in 2017 for there to be any unemployment, for
anyone to be hungry or need health care, lack access to the internet, or
anyone to work more than 20 hours a week.

The problem is if that happens, the working class will rest up, get educated,
and demand fair compensation for their wages, and the capital class will be
stuck with a piddling 20% of the global economy instead of the 80% they
currently get.

So they fight tooth and nail to keep a certain level of instability, in the
workforce, and in far away places.

~~~
civilian
The war on drugs is reducing the amount of labor available. If we follow the
principles of supply and demand-- if Business Owners wants to pay employees
less, then they want _more_ people to be available to work, and they also want
those people to have lower cost of living. Having people in prison and having
people pay for their family member's drug addiction reduces labor supply and
increase cost of living.

I think you have a conspiracy narrative, and you are trying to fit evidence to
support it.

~~~
orclev
The principle of supply and demand doesn't really work, it's too simplistic a
view. In the small scale, in a controlled environment sure it works fine, but
real markets are messy with lots of factors impacting them, so it tends to
break down rapidly. This has always been the failing of those that hew to the
freemarket capitalist ideal, this unfailing belief in supply and demand as a
market driver.

One (but certainly not the only) missing factor here is a discussion of
skilled vs. unskilled labor. The market for skilled labor is relatively small
compared to unskilled labor, but even in that market companies struggle
sometimes to fill positions, that's one of the claims companies backing H1B
programs make (even if it is a bit dubious). On the other hand, there's an
almost unlimited supply of unskilled labor available, and that's growing all
the time. Further complicating things is the fact that the demand for
unskilled labor is directly driven by the size of the market, and they tend to
scale together.

People desperate for _any_ work to offset their costs of living are more
willing at accept lower pay if it means getting a job and that's exactly the
situation we see evolving now. All of this so far has been predicated on the
supply side of things being the driver, but there's also the question of
demand. If people had options they could fall back on then the unskilled labor
market would _demand_ higher wages and refuse to work under the poverty line
forcing employers to increase wages. The problem is of course that people are
so desperate for _anything_ at all that they're willing to work in jobs that
can't keep them financially viable because it at least slows the collapse.
Eventually they'll either move into a skilled position that gives them a
better chance, get sick, die, or turn to crime or drugs to try to cope. Long
term this is of course economically disastrous, the middle class has all but
ceased to exist, and the economy is slowly grinding to a halt as more and more
of the population finds themselves unable to take part meaningfully in it.
However in the short term it means record breaking profits for corporations.
It's pretty obvious to anyone who's watched the policies that corporations
have pushed for the last 40 years exactly what choice they're going to make.

~~~
badosu
Very lucid viewpoint

------
agjacobson
I want to use this message thread to tell a story and make a point. If it is
off-point, delete it, give it negative votes, whatever.

I had abdominal surgery. They had to remove 14cm of my colon which was badly
inflamed due to diverticulitis. When I woke up, I was so doped up that I felt
no pain. I even danced a jig in my room.

That evening they hooked me up to a hydromorphone injector for the inevitable
pain. Every 12 minutes or so, I could give myself a shot into my IV.
Hydromorphone is about 100 times stronger than morphine, so the doses were in
micrograms. I was allowed, like, 5 shots per hour, and the machine could get
loaded with about 50 shots. I kept a record of the shots in my Iphone Notes. I
tried to space them further than 12 minutes, but I only decreased the
frequency by a few minutes. I liked those shots. They worked. The nursing
staff encouraged me to use this. They could reload the machine, no trouble.

Now the thing about colon surgery is, your colon has to get working. Those
opiate shots very effectively prevent this. I wanted to get out of that place.
So the next night, I quit cold turkey. I was freezing cold, and the pain I
felt was not just from the after effects of the surgery, I am pretty sure. It
was fucking horrible.

Now the things is, I was addicted. I did succeed in quitting cold turkey. My
colon still didn't work for a day, so I vomited almost a gallon of green bile
over the edge of my gurney. It was so much, it lapped up against the walls.
Then my colon worked, and I got to go home.

But I was addicted, and I am a recovering addict, from that one time. And
every nurse I mention this to says, "Oh no, you weren't an addict." They even
quote some bullshit criterion for addiction, which I've forgotten.

I haven't had any problems since, and if I have to take oral oxycodone, or
hydrocodone, there have been no problems or instance of abuse.

But I was an addict.

~~~
coleifer
I don't think you know what you're talking about.

For how many weeks were you on the medication? For how long were you in
withdrawal? Heroin, hydromorphone, oxycodone, etc the withdrawal lasts 5-7
days. Were you in withdrawal for that long? I guess the point I'm trying to
make is that most addicts are on much higher doses for much longer periods of
time -- and the withdrawal is insane. Furthermore, there's a big difference
between physical and psychological addiction. If there weren't, then everyone
who takes prescribed pain meds for any length of time would be "an addict"
because they'll experience a degree of withdrawal. If you identify as a drug
addict, that's fine (though I certainly hope you aren't one!).

IV Hydromorphone is also, by the way, 5x stronger than IV morphine. Granted,
that's a lot, but nowhere near 100x!

~~~
hirsin
Personally speaking I was on hydromorphone (orally) for a shattered ankle, and
just 72 hours of taking it (at 66% max dose) was enough. Dropping from 2 pills
to 1 caused some withdrawal symptoms, and 1 to 0 definitely caused nausea and
insomnia.

The surgeon nodded when he heard about this and said yep, that's expected.
It's addictive over that short a timespan.

~~~
agjacobson
Thanks. I'm indeed not crazy.

------
jokr004
Opiate addiction is hell. Just pure unadulterated hell. I've been through a
lot of hardships in life but I honestly can't begin to explain to you the
amount of pain this has caused me. I'm currently in a methadone program after
relapsing for the first time since I got clean five years ago. Just.. stay as
far away from this stuff as you possibly can. It has the potential to swallow
you whole.

~~~
oxryly1
Not to pry, but did it start with a doctor's prescription for you?

~~~
jokr004
It actually didn't start with a prescription.. For me it started as casual use
here and there and very quickly turned into self-medication. I've had issues
with depression and anxiety for a long time and opiates were a really easy way
of dealing with those problems. However I can't tell you how many people I
knew who started using after being prescribed opioid painkillers.

~~~
gefh
I've only ever had opioid painkillers after dental work, and it's enough to
convince me that I must _never_ try heroin. You have my kind thoughts and best
wishes.

~~~
pgrote
I never understood how people could be addicted to drugs until the middle of
the night screaming in an emergency room bed. A kidney stone was causing so
much pain morphine wouldn't touch it. Unbearable.

The nurse came in and put something in my IV and I just stopped. The pain
stopped. I stopped talking to my wife in mid-sentence. Everything was fine. My
world just stopped and I liked it.

As the nurse left my wife asked what I was given and it was dilaudid, which is
equal to heroin on the equianalgesic scale.

It was right then I understood how people become addicted to drugs. Like you,
it convinced me to never try heroin or any other opiates outside of emergency
medical care.

------
mnm1
This reads like a laundry list of exactly what not to do when you find out
your child is addicted to opiates. Everything they do, from being overly
controlling to kicking her out and pressing charges against her, is a self-
righteous act and harms her greatly. At one point, I thought I was reading a
scene cut from Trainspotting for being too mundane. The naivety about the
legal and health systems is also appalling. These are people who claim the
ability to function in the world, yet they don't know the most basic things
about the world they claim the ability to function in. I think towards the
end, the mother actually starts to get a glimpse of the reality of what is
going on with her daughter and is more compassionate by letting her live in
their house again. I hope their daughter recovers and other parents heed this
story as to what not to do to their sick children.

~~~
tjohns
Out of curiosity, what would you do instead?

From person experience with a family member who had a severe case of
alcoholism (and eventually died from it)... there's very little you can do to
help somebody if they don't want to quit. After a while these behaviors start
to negatively affect everyone else in the household, too.

(Also, keep in mind we're actually talking about an adult here... since
they're old enough to join the military.)

~~~
Symbiote
It says "five years ago, when she was 18".

So it's not relevant, but you can join the British Army at age 16, though it's
controversial: [https://www.child-soldiers.org/uk](https://www.child-
soldiers.org/uk)

------
coleifer
GPs should know about clonodine. It's a blood pressure medicine that
counteracts the massive norepinephrine dump you experience when you kick (and
which is the number one thing that makes it so unbearable). It helps a lot.

Besides methadone there's also buprenorphine and Suboxone, which are opiate
replacements. Not the kind of thing you take to get high, something to use to
taper off so the withdrawals aren't so intense.

Heroin abuse is a big problem that's only going to get bigger in the US. A lot
of folks got addicted back when Purdue was pushing Oxycontin, and now that
it's harder for them to obtain they've switched to the cheaper and more potent
stuff.

Doctors need to know how to treat withdrawal, period. There are lots of
options besides methadone (which has it's own nightmare withdrawal if stopped
abruptly, and which lasts three times longer than heroin withdrawal).

~~~
pmoriarty
_" Heroin abuse is a big problem that's only going to get bigger in the US.
With legal weed, a lot of former marijuana producers are getting wise and
starting to farm the opium poppy. Plus a lot of folks got addicted back when
Purdue was pushing Oxycontin, and now that it's harder for them to obtain
they've switched to the cheaper and more potent stuff."_

I'd really like to see some numbers on this.

From what I understand, there are far, far more marijuana users than there are
heroin users -- like many orders of magnitude more. So, yeah, illegal
marijuana growers could certainly switch to growing opium, but they're not
going to magically get anywhere near the number of customers.

~~~
coleifer
I did a quick google search:

* [https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/data/heroin.html](https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/data/heroin.html)

* [http://www.cbsnews.com/news/heroin-use-in-u-s-reaches-alarmi...](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/heroin-use-in-u-s-reaches-alarming-20-year-high/)

* [http://time.com/3946904/heroin-epidemic/](http://time.com/3946904/heroin-epidemic/)

* [http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/16/health/huntington-heroin/](http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/16/health/huntington-heroin/)

~~~
pmoriarty
Versus the number of marijuana users, please.

~~~
ambrice
Also consider what the average marijuana user is spending per day vs what the
average heroin user is spending.

------
metaphorm
This is really sad. I got the impression while reading through that whole
sorry story that the poor girl's parents really just don't see how they are a
huge source of negativity and pain in their daughter's life. They kick her out
of the house, sabotage her job, put conditions on their provision of love and
support. These are terrible parents. I feel awful just reading about that
whole situation.

~~~
tropo
Here in the USA, you have to kick them out. If you don't, your house can be
taken via civil asset forfeiture laws. Landlords also have to kick out
renters. Kick them out ASAP or risk the loss of your property. You can't even
let them loiter outside.

~~~
metaphorm
that's an absurd thing to say. can you provide a citation of a parent's house
being seized because their child was arrested for drug possession?

~~~
areyousure
While I, uh, don't necessarily support the advice given by your parent
comments ... this was literally the top result of a Google search for [a
parent's house being seized because their child was arrested for drug
possession]: [http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/03/us/philadelphia-drug-bust-
hous...](http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/03/us/philadelphia-drug-bust-house-
seizure/)

Most of the top results are about that case. Maybe it's misleading or simply
inaccurate. However, check out this webpage (the fourth result) which offers
legal advice: [http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/if-my-kid-
arr...](http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/if-my-kid-arrested-
smoking-marijuana-my-house-can-i-l)

Choice quotation: "In 1988, Paul and Ruth Derbacher, a couple in their
eighties, lost their Connecticut home after police raided their house and
arrested their twenty-two year old grandson for selling drugs. Police found
$50,000 worth of marijuana and cocaine in the house. The grandson was
convicted of drug charges and sentenced to prison. The Derbachers were also
charged with drug possession and were placed on probation. Prosecutors claimed
the drugs were kept in plain view and that the Derbachers must have been aware
of their grandson’s illicit activities. Although the Derbachers fought the
seizure of their home, they ultimately reached a settlement agreement. The
house was sold, and the couple split the proceeds of the sale with the
government."

------
brohoolio
And here in the United States we are talking about removing drug treatment
options from our health care. Over a million people.

------
coding123
Economics-wise, drug manufacturing can be the next-big-thing for the US
economy. Sprinkle in some regulation and oversight for quality, and BAM we're
good to go.

------
everyone
This is a good book on drugs and the history of prohibition.

[https://www.amazon.com/Pursuit-Oblivion-Global-History-
Narco...](https://www.amazon.com/Pursuit-Oblivion-Global-History-
Narcotics/dp/0393325458)

------
csense
They teach you in school, drugs are bad. Don't do drugs. Just say no. At least
where and when I went to school, they went out of their way, above and beyond
to ensure this simple message was hammered into every single child.

The image of a drug addict in pop culture -- it's never a pleasant one. They
lie, cheat, steal. They're a burden and a trial to their families.

People are warned about what happens when you get addicted to drugs. I simply
fail to understand why so many people do drugs in the first place, and I have
little sympathy for addicts.

The world is a dangerous place. If you drive your car off the side of a
bridge, or you mix the wrong household chemicals, or you stay in a running
vehicle in an enclosed garage, or you grab on to a downed powerline, you'll
probably die. It's simple cause and effect, and for the most part people
understand it and aren't stupid enough to do these things unless they're
suicidal.

If you do drugs, you'll probably ruin your life. It's simple cause and effect.
For the most part people understand it, but it seems that enormous hordes of
people do them anyway. I don't get it, what's the difference?

~~~
nv-vn
Just curious, but what are your thoughts on alcohol?

------
xkcd-sucks
It seems a little bit dramatic-- Heroin withdrawal symptoms are pretty much
the same as those of influenza, except the flu can actually kill you.

~~~
wintermute42
Have you had severe withdrawals? I've withdrawn cold turkey off of a $500/day
heroin habit. It is the worst pain I have ever experienced. If I had a gun on
me at the time, I am 100% sure that I would have killed my self. You have no
idea what you're talking about

------
ybrah
clickbait cancer

~~~
sctb
Please stop posting unsubstantively like this here.

