
Indian startups have raised a record $11.3B this year - jmsflknr
https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/23/india-tech-startups-fundraise/
======
harshvladha
I think the current situation of India is similar and can be compared to the
DotCom bubble of '90s (in US). In Bengaluru it is said that, in almost every
home you will find one CEO of a startup.

I might be wrong but just thinking out loud.

For example: PhonePe app - It's just a payment transfer app by Flipkart
(although it is much better than GPay, in terms of usage speed) - its current
valuation is around 7-8B+ USD. I don't get the much reason. There are no
intermediary charges as PhonePe uses UPI Payment Interface
([https://www.npci.org.in/product-overview/upi-product-
overvie...](https://www.npci.org.in/product-overview/upi-product-overview))

~~~
omk
I have always suspected the beefed up valuations of payment apps in India
related to lack of regulations in place for use data protection and privacy.
Most of these apps seem to be making money on some sort of data driven
business models.

If that is true, the valuations do make sense. If you can provide purchase
power metrics for half a billion users, a $7B valuation might start to seem
modest.

~~~
harshvladha
Thanks for this perspective.

I think CRED is also doing the same.

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ignoramous
I really really hope the Indian "startups" aren't closet selling $2 for $1.
Given the slew of discounts, cashbacks, and offers, I am left to wonder if at
the cost of growth, the fund management has gone to the wolves.

The Indian consumer is very fickle and always shops for cheapest alternatives
and looks for the best deals. I'm yet to see any kind of loyal behaviour,
though, I must say, they prefer to trust only the bigger brands (in terms of
presence) when they do occasionally spend big.

Another symptom is a lot of businesses acting like software startups riding
the wave, when in reality, as a reductionist argument, could be simply
classified as companies that _get_ mobile and internet.

It also isn't uncommon for the business to exploit the low income wage
structure to improve margins. Worker rights, contractor rights, in this gig
economy is absent.

That's not to say some of these startups aren't delivering real value. They
are... but race to the bottom seldom ends well for countries plagued with
corruption, income inequality, and unemployment; and burderned with looming
humanitarian crisis.

In my personal opinion, businesses serving other starups / enterprises
(Zscaler, Cloudflare, Brex, Stripe, GitHub, slack, aws et al) remain the most
secure of the current lot.

I don't think this disproportionate infusion of captial is going to end well:
There do exist super valuable businesses but I highly doubt if they can
justify their hype when they do go public. The investors are usually smart,
but I hope they don't get dragged into hopeless optimism or become desperate.

Some engs and mgrs arguing the Indian market is better than Canada are
overestimating their monetary gains and grossly underestimating the
environmental, political, and societal benefits, imho.

PS Indian startup scene investments tracker: [https://trak.in/india-startup-
funding-investment-2015/](https://trak.in/india-startup-funding-
investment-2015/)

~~~
blueblisters
I love this argument, there’s a lot of nuance to unwrap here. I see a lot of
India startup cofounders who are really smart but fail to understand the
challenges (often out of their control) that are in their way of making their
businesses sustainable. Aside from the political, regulatory and socioeconomic
challenges, India has a huge void to fill in terms of energy needs,
manufactured goods, labor productivity and infrastructure before the economy
becomes efficient enough to support high level services. The startup
ecosystem, barring a few companies in logistics, is not focused on making any
tangible improvements in productivity in the larger economy, for example, to
start moving people away from agriculture.

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jsondiv
This is really impressive: "It’s fascinating turnaround for the nation, which
just 10 years ago had a very small startup ecosystem. In a recent interview
with TechCrunch, Paytm founder and CEO Vijay Shekhar Sharma recounted the
early days of One97, the parent firm of Paytm, and how difficult it was for
him to raise a few hundred thousand dollars."

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paxys
The USA took literally all of India's top engineering talent for the past ~25
years, but thankfully that trend is reversing now. While improvements in
standard of living, more urbanization, emergence of a real middle class, more
local opportunities etc. are definitely all valid reasons for this, I believe
the biggest one is that there is no path to US residency or citizenship for an
Indian today. Even those educated at top universities there have to eventually
come back (and that is great!).

~~~
ramraj07
Not sure that it's necessarily great. I love my home country and all but I
hate that I don't have the same freedom of movement other Nationals seem to
have just by birth no matter how hard I work for it.

~~~
ganeshkrishnan
I stay in Canada. My parents are from India and my in-laws are European. My
in-laws basically pack their suitcase and turn up to visit us. Meanwhile my
parents had their visa rejected twice, we spent close to $10k on legal fees
and lost couple of flight tickets (can't apply for visa unless you show flight
tickets but visa is not guaranteed) and my brother was never ever allowed to
visit us. And it's extremely common for other skilled immigrants (even if they
are citizens) in Canada as well to have their family visit visa refused.

Paradoxically, US tourist visa was the easiest for all of us.

When I hear people complain about how the "Government prioritizes immigrants
over the local people", it's just mind boggling how they come to this
conclusion?

~~~
ramraj07
I wasn't aware that tourist visas for parents in Canada can be very difficult.
I was planning on applying for PR to Canada precisely because I thought it'd
be easier to have parents over there (what is this thing called a Super Visa?)
- does this change if you have a PR?

~~~
ganeshkrishnan
It doesn't change even if you are a citizen. Super Visa takes a very long time
and is for longer duration. All in all its a draw of the luck, give it a shot.

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aditya
Zomato, Swiggy and Paytm alone are expected to close rounds worth as much as
$3 billion in the coming months - wonder where the other $8bn is going

~~~
jmsflknr
Indian tech startups have already raised $11.3B -- the new financing rounds of
Swiggy, Zomato, and Paytm if they happen this year and if it is indeed of $3B
size would make Indian tech startup's raise this year to over $14.3B.

------
GaryNumanVevo
We're currently having issues hiring in Bangalore. We've been looking for a ML
Infra person to help during non-US hours. Unfortunately hiring for such a
position is bimodal in that market, you've got people with substantial
experience really know their stuff, most of whom are getting snapped up by
startups who pay much better, and then you've got the people who just threw ML
on their LinkedIn to get into your search and can't tell you what a linear
regression is.

~~~
snicker7
Then you'd have to pay more.

~~~
desi_ninja
Exactly! I have lost count of how many times people on HN rant about quality
of "Indian software engineers" when they are paying so less that they get
bottom of the barrel. And they make quick stereotype out of that experience
without any introspection.

~~~
rolltiide
That's a component and a big component of it is the non-technical managers and
wannabe founders that are working with the indian software engineerings and
failing to articulate anything in anyway for any engineer to accurately
deliver upon.

~~~
dmix
That's part of the software engineers job too is it not? They're the hired
expert.

When I was consulting I spent half my being a product development/manager
person because I needed to be.

~~~
ian0
This skill is likely what enabled you to do consulting. Understanding and
critiquing what your building is a really important part of being an engineer,
but it's relatively rare - which is a shame.

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pansinghkoder
That is very encouraging. Given that we Indians are such foodies, it is not
surprising that Swiggy and Zomato are doing so well.

I am trying to keep tabs on electric two-wheeler startup industry in India.
Ather energy is emerging as a big name. Anyone knows how they are doing?

~~~
spectramax
I always found the term “Foodies” strange. Given that we are hardwired to
enjoy food and literally need it to survive, something is terribly wrong with
the person’s health if they’re not a “Foodie”. Have you met someone who says
they hate food and they only have it because their bodies need it to survive?

Indians are no more foodies than the Americans or the Italians or the
Japanese. Food is a central aspect of basically all cultures.

~~~
lotsofpulp
Being a foodie isn’t about liking to eat, foodie is about enjoying different
cuisines and having a discerning taste. Some people are okay with
pizza/fries/burgers of any style, while a foodie would seek out specific
characteristics and generally want more than just carbs/salt/sugar.

I’ve met people that go to a big city and stick with eating from the chains
they know from home. They like eating, but they wouldn’t fall under foodie, as
opposed to someone who is researching different types of food or cooking them
and using various spices and ingredients to add flavor.

~~~
spectramax
I feel like this is a very narrow, elitist view of the world. Even folks who
are not “foodie” in this definition given the opportunity to try new foods,
they will.

There is something about the term “Foodie” that bothers me because it’s such a
general thing that applies to 7 billion people in the world.

I can understand if a person is a musician or a doctor or something
substantial they’d have to do to attain that title. What do you think of the
term “Chef” or a “Cook” or a “Restaurant critic”? There is definitely more
specificity.

Foodie is a bullshit term for people that like to eat good food - basically
all 7 billion people. It bothers me because I am an air-breathing enthusiast
or as they say it a “Breathie”. I have a discerning smell for breathing air
from various countries.

~~~
zrobotics
>> Even folks who are not “foodie” in this definition given the opportunity to
try new foods, they will.

Not to be argumentative, but I fail to understand how you think this applies
to everyone. For example, recently me and some friends were looking for a
place to eat. Search turned up an Ethiopian restaurant that sounded
interesting (none of us had any familiarity w/ the cuisine). Most of the group
wanted to go to try it, but one friend flatly refused- he would rather just go
to a chain place. Which is fine, not everyone enjoys trying new things and
would prefer comfort foods.

Me and another of the group ended up going to the Ethiopian place later, and
while it was excellent if we had drug the reluctant friend along it wouldn't
have been fun for him (no silverware, just the flatbread).

I get that you find the term irratating, as I think it is almost as annoying
as 'maker', but foodie connotes more than just 'someone who enjoys food'.
Foodie describes someone who makes a partial hobby out of the act of consuming
food. I hate the term b/c English already has an appropriated term that
describes this better- gourmand. There is a difference between enjoying eating
and being discerning about what one eats and being able to critique what is
wrong/right with a dish.

~~~
spectramax
“Maker” bugs me as well! You have some good points and I get that “Foodie” is
a term for enthusiasts of various foods. The way it’s used is not in a good
way - Where I live (Silicon Valley), there are so many kinds of restaurants
and cuisines to be had that being a “Foodie” is a dull hobby.

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bigil
I'm afraid given the lack of awareness on what exactly UPI is (without
considering usage) and the ability of politicians to kill projects for bribes,
it may be eventually replaced by the wallet model. Corruption is a huge issue
in India which contributes to loyal users eventually leaving the platform.
Zomato, Swiggy and UberEats have had huge growth over the last year but I see
a lot of regular users (office goers, bachelors living alone or with other
bachelors...) thinking hard before ordering food. The number of quality
restaurants are in less ratio and there is only a subset of them being
consistent. A huge portion of this quality restaurants offer cuisines not
Indian (Thai, Chinese, Italian, American..) which is not preferred routinely.
My guess would be, growing up most are accustomed to Indian cuisine and the
cost factor. Majority of the restaurants cater to offers and provide cheap
food and lack basic hygiene and food preparation standards. This "restaurants"
(most of them have now converted to takeaway only) should have been closed
after inspection(s) but bribe and stay alive. This startups have enabled this
restaurants to thrive and profit just by providing cheap food and cutting
costs (waiters, restaurant space...). Most of this "quality restaurants" have
always had delivery options and so this startups are not providing much value
to them or consumers. Unless better food preparation standards are followed
along with it being transparent loyal customers will be a tiny minority and
majority will try to exploit the offers and leave. This is amplified
(anecdotal, not verified statistically) by health issues of frequent users due
to poor quality food.

~~~
llampx
Providing cheap daal, rice and butter chicken is a recipe for a race to the
bottom. I can see why, as a restaurant owner, you might not want to cater to
that market. There's more profit in going after the customers who are looking
for a new experience and will pay for quality and exoticness.

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modi15
IMO the biggest Indian startups are dramatically reducing the cost of urban
living. The fact that India's cities are heavily disorganised counter
intuitively helps in this.

The other sectors which is mostly overlooked but just getting started are
military startups. IMO this should also scale dramatically over the next
decade.

This number might be a record but my prediction is that it would rapidly climb
higher over the next decade or so.

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NTDF9
What's incredible is that once you factor in PPP, this is equivalent to $200B
in local purchasing power.

Imagine how much new economic activity that is for a country whose GDP is only
$2.5T

~~~
aatharuv
More like $30-$40 billion not $200 billion. The current PPP multiplier is
somewhere between 3 and 4.

PPP is most useful when looking at domestically manufactured items and
services. When looking at anything that needs to be imported, normal exchange
rates are a much better tool. In fact due to import duties in India, many
international goods are more expensive in India that in most of the west.

~~~
NTDF9
I literally used the multiplier here:
[https://data.oecd.org/conversion/purchasing-power-
parities-p...](https://data.oecd.org/conversion/purchasing-power-parities-
ppp.htm)

As shocking as it sounds, PPP multiple is really 18x

~~~
h43k3r
If you compare just the house rents in all the major Indian metros then PPP is
around 4 5.

~~~
NTDF9
Then compare it with major US metros only and not entire US.

The multiplier again becomes 18x

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limeman
Everything speculated here is VC money and financial bubble with unrelaible
financial values. Zomato, uber, paytm, flipkart throw discounts at the rate of
losses. May be few can survive at the end. This hurts a lot for SMB too.

~~~
puranjay
Flipkart has already had a successful exit. Though if I'm honest, I don't see
a path to profitability for PayTM and Ola.

~~~
bahularora
Paytm will be one of the leaders with the new Ecomm model. I am sure they will
be a huge player in ecomm also dont forget they would be the largest bank in
India.

~~~
puranjay
Their losses increased from some ~1300cr to ~3000+cr while their revenue grew
by 8%

Not sure where you can draw a path to profitability from that.

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avocado4
I'm really hoping for India, the world's largest democracy, to overtake China
as an industrial and tech powerhouse of Asia in the next 10-20 years.

~~~
sombremesa
I'm no expert, but I'd imagine that India being the world's largest democracy
is not guaranteed to be a good thing given that only 33% of Indian citizens
get through high school (and 8% graduate college). Many politicians are
themselves uneducated, and it's easy to sway the opinions of the masses using
religion and hatred as leverage.

~~~
pcx
Education is a bad indicator for the health of a democracy. Looks like the US
isn't doing any better with democracy despite having higher education levels.

~~~
sombremesa
Can you tell me exactly what you mean by this? It's a different thing to
compare public sentiment (which seems to be vastly different between the two
countries), and it's different to compare standard of living and economical
factors (which are again vastly different between the two countries). It seems
like you are picking one and comparing it to the other, is that correct?

~~~
sombremesa
Nice, good job - you downvoted me rather than having a good faith discussion.
If the denizens of this site operate in bad faith, I'll go elsewhere.

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GrayTextIsTruth
_growth. growth. growth. growth._

we chant as we march to our death.

India is starting to boom now that climate crisis is getting worse.

~~~
rrrazdan
Yes we should freeze everyone's growth and maintain the status quo. Clearly
only the Western nations deserve a high standard of living. The others need to
make sacrifices for the greater good.

