
A Unicorn Is the Last Thing This Web 2.0 Survivor Wants - gpresot
http://www.wired.com/2016/02/unicorn-last-thing-web-2-0-survivor-wants/
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mikekchar
I really wish startups would pay attention to this: “The nice thing about
revenue is it’s not diluted capital”. Far too often I see people look at their
valuations as something like a scorecard for success. And if you can cash out,
then I suppose more power to you. But this programmer is tired of the ".com",
"web 2.0", "unicorn" bubbles... I wish companies would concentrate on
providing value to their customers.

~~~
rosser
_I wish companies would concentrate on providing value to their customers._

That's just it, though. "Customers" are just another measure of _your_ value
to the people to whom you're actually beholden: investors. As long as you're
providing value (perceived or actual) to them, you're winning this game.
Ideally, that involves providing value to customers, as well, but it's
demonstrably not necessary.

~~~
apalmer
No. Full Stop.

what is being said here is maybe you should minimize the number and scope of
investors.

your response is 'your' value is whatever your 'investors' think it is.

The key point in this is businesses aren't founded to gather investors,
businesses are founded to make money. If you can make money more efficiently
by taking on investors then you should, if you can make money more efficiently
by not taking on investors then you should not.

~~~
rosser
You seem to think we have some point of disagreement.

 _The key point in this is businesses aren 't founded to gather investors..._

Maybe together, we can explain that to the rest of Silly Valley, where
"getting funded" has for some time now demonstrably been a more important goal
than, I don't know, "getting _traction_ ".

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windlep
It will be interesting to see if this one takes off more than a similar one
that launched about a decade ago now...

[http://techcrunch.com/2007/11/15/social-networking-
platform-...](http://techcrunch.com/2007/11/15/social-networking-platform-
crowdvine-targets-conference-organizers/)

CrowdVine also let people setup custom white-label social networks, though I
suppose its founder didn't have as neat of a background story as a Ning
founder.

It's probably a nice business model, but not a "startup" by PG's standards,
since this type of thing doesn't grow rapidly, intentionally.

~~~
lmitchell
I love Hacker News, but my least favourite thing about it all is how we
glorify 'startups'. It's honestly just a really weird business model, that
seems like it's _bound_ to inspire things like the recent Zenefits scandal,
Uber and Airbnb's disregard for regulation, etc. etc. etc. I dunno... like
this story implies, it just seems totally ass-backwards to focus on growth
before you're profitable, and pretty unhealthy to boot.

~~~
anexprogrammer
I've started to prefer (including by using it to influence where I spend
money) companies that grow the old fashioned way: Make some money and use it
to make a little more. Or heaven forbid, were bootstrapped.

Why? Seems from experience to be far less likely to produce an "Our Incredible
Journey" message.

I don't want to sign up for a service, love it, find it useful and be told
GTFO after 2 years, ps Google bought us.

I've also got very wary of using any new Google, Facebook etc service. Chances
are, it won't last.

There's something incredibly unhealthy about the way it's all about getting to
$1bn and to hell with the product, customers, that got you there etc. I also
think the burn rates have got out of hand. Surely there's a better way than
burning £20m a year to produce something you'll shutter without a second
thought when it runs out. What happened to seeking profit and longevity?

I'm very glad I had my time in startups though!

~~~
vmateixeira
Nice comment, you seem to address few of my thoughts on bad products,
longevity and customer support.

I am a bit concerned though companies don't care about the customer and
customer support any more... I wonder if they are counting on peoples laziness
on searching and moving to an alternative product/service or is it as simple
as there are no alternatives with different policies?

~~~
anexprogrammer
Good support is expensive and not terribly amenable to scripting, unless you
want to do it badly (or not at all). It's certainly possible to differentiate
by providing great support, it's just convenient (and very profitable in the
short term) to not bother. Great support is hard!

I think the public have got far too accepting of little or no support. Yes
it's easy to switch, but most people don't unless it's a commodity service -
you have to risk the unknown, maybe migrate years of data with little
certainty that support in the new home will be better. Sales support tends to
be great (and unscripted from more aware staff).

There's a magic size, let us imagine it at 100 people where nearly all human
endeavours become crap. Try getting support out of your electric utility, car
maker, government, phone service, national charity, hard drive maker etc.
Personally I think it's connected with the size where they will still hurt at,
or at least talk about, your loss.

It's certainly possible to get far beyond this size and still give great
support - look at Amazon and Apple. Amazon got far beyond that size before
starting to become a bit rubbish. Essentially until they started ruining the
brand trying to move into food, tablets, 3rd party merchants and _everything._
Apple have the advantage of their restricted OSX hardware, iOS app store and
so on that they have a fairly known quantity to provide support for. I think
the key to be in this category is what you think your brand stands for.

I think in many, particularly social spaces, it's easy to forget we're not the
customer. eg, you can actually get responsive support out of Google adwords or
if you buy a Nexus from them (not always great support, but they answer
promptly enough). So we're never getting support for search, G+, Facebook or
Twitter. I'm sure there;s scope to do it much better, even for the free
services.

Lastly, I think specifically in the startup space when you're aiming for 20%
growth a month, or even a quarter is going to make it far more difficult to do
well. Especially if your offering is evolving as fast - even your staff will
struggle to stay aware. So it becomes about great user stories, and outreach
(PR) and devcons. Good for growth, but chances are individual customers get
lost in the gaps. I think the tendency to shoot for an IPO or buyout is
unhealthy here - individual experience matters less if you don't need to care
about ongoing trading profit whilst getting big fast. That said there's plenty
of services I don't think would have happened, or be great without being big.
Small Spotify doesn't get music licences, small Uber doesn't have availability
when you need it, etc.

EDIT: Didn't realise I'd written that much!

~~~
vmateixeira
Woow, thanks for that! :)

I see your point. Now that you mention, it makes sense that the fear of the
unknown may be preventing people from changing, even though they are not
satisfied with they're current support.

Although, I think it can still be of a very high risk not to have a good
support even when you want to be profitable in short term. I can see a few
companies rushing into launching new/unfinished products, trying to get the
market with their innovations before someone else. That can go really bad if
they don't provide a good support for their new/unfinished/faulty product or
service (maybe bad word spreading can haunt them?).

And yes, I can see the brand as a relevant part in this matter. The amount and
quality of the support provided can definitely help defining a brand and what
it stands for.

Great examples on Google products, Spotify and Uber! Regarding free products
(search, G+, etc), I still think the free experience can lead to a product up-
selling, cross-selling and perhaps in some cases to get customer's loyalty, so
I think this kind of support, although non-profitable in short term, can still
be relevant.

Startups, I don't have much of an input really.. it does look a bit
overwhelming to me to set 20% growth a month goals.. so I don't really know
what to expect.

~~~
anexprogrammer
You're welcome :)

Don't forget people don't usually switch because of support, more because
something is not working or they've upset you. People can switch utilities or
bank easy enough, yet they almost never do, unless they're really upset.
Better the devil you know, I guess.

Good support can pay off for word of mouth referrals, especially if they've
had a bad time elsewhere. I think it works best for techie things like web
hosting, or a SaaS where you're integrating and likely need a little support.
For an ISP you never phone support, until you hate them because it's broke,
then they switch to the next cheapest, which will be just as bad. (I stuck
with a small ISP who gives astonishing support, they cost only a little more)
:)

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headgasket
this is not a story about ning going down, this is a live example on how to
kill your own business by wired. another few minutes of my life not wasted,
thanks abp and an ambush popup!

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qwertyuiop924
Is it bad that when I saw the name of this article, I thought it would be a
critique of the unicorn webserver, probably related to scalability or some
other architecture problem?

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thanatropism
This site first lets me read the article above the fold and then ambushes me
with a "disable ad blocking or pay" screen.

So I disable Adblocker and get the same message again. Fuck you, I'm not
diabling Ghostery and letting you get to my social media information.

The anti-adblocking movement is going too far.

~~~
tempestn
And then if you do disable adblock, it's difficult to read the article because
there's a never-ending stream of animated big macs and bank ads and crap
pasted beside it, helpfully fixed position so you don't accidentally scroll it
off the screen.

I say as someone who makes his living largely from ads, if you have to _force_
someone to view your ads, they're _not going to click on them anyway_! What's
the point? All you've done is potentially driven away a reader.

~~~
sirkneeland
If they're paid by CPI, do they need you to click on them?

~~~
calbear81
For something like McDonald's what's the point of tracking a click? Few will
click and it's not like you can order a Big Mac and fries online. They'll most
likely track it to some type of in-store sales/visit number based on where
they have targeted the ads.

