
Ask HN: Given opportunity to become manager. What do I do? - big_bing
Hi,
So I just got offered a manager role in my company. It &#x27;s one of the very large enterprises.<p>For a while, I have been working as a lead on all things Devops, Big data, automation, Cloud etc and my manager thinks that now I should step up in a manager role.I think I would like to try it out.<p>My questions are:
1) It is a major career change. Can I ask for a major salary hike? What would be the ballpark?<p>2) How should I go about it to ensure I make the most of this opportunity.<p>3) what should I do in the next few months?
======
oneshoe
For sake of perspective I am a VP of my IT department (smaller company, about
300 employees, about 40 reporting to me)

1) Me, personally: I wouldn't ask for a raise (and this might be me just being
pedantic) but I'd ask IF the role change has a scheduled raise and what is to
be expected. I'd use this answer to help me make a decision. I'd (me,
personally) would assume the role would have a minor raise and future raises
based on my performance in that new job. I'd try to secure a 15-20 percent
increase in pay for moving to a manager role - which, btw, is hard. Moving
into a manager role means learning a new job - this isn't (or shouldn't be)
your other job with a couple new responsibilities. This is an entirely new job
that isn't your old job... sure, you can help people when they ask but that is
entirely different than hiring/firing, writing people up, or trying to
determine what sort of a raise somebody deserves.

2) Be humble. Find a mentor. Read a lot. Be humble. Be humble, be humble. I
believe that power exposes more than it corrupts but it can also corrupt. Work
from goals. Give clear expectations. Also, you may not like this role. I've
hired a lot of developers leaving their company because they were great
developers that were put into management roles and learned to hate it. Good
luck! Me, I love it. (to each their own)

3) Learn. Read. Read. Learn. Read... and remember: In theory practice always
works, in practice theory doesn't - You are now dealing with PEOPLE not
COMPUTERS. People are emotional beings and often unknowingly irrational. HOW
you say something is much more important than WHAT you say.

Lastly - learn to manage UP as much as you learn to manage DOWN.

Best of luck!

~~~
big_bing
Thanks for the excellent reply. I happen to enjoy reading and I am looking
forward to it. Any books you recommend. Primary management skills where I
lack: \- I tend to look at people through my tech lens. if someone is more
technically skilled than me, I look up to them and I cannot accept laziness,
non-commitment, bullshit etc. Now I understand that I need to stop doing that
and see people as just people who have different moods on a daily basis. What
books would you recommend to become non-judgemental, and empathetic

\- What do I do about actually non-competent people. You see, while I am
excited about the role, I am also scared. I have been very good in my tech
role and my management career will depend upon my team. But, in the fast few
years, my team has accumulated a lot of baggage and a lot of people are
totally unmotivated and non-committed. I feel like I am being given this role
because noone else wants it. any suggestions?

~~~
JSeymourATL
> Any books you recommend. Primary management skills where I lack:

\- FYI: For Your Improvement, A Guide for Development and Coaching>
[http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/847538.FYI?from_search=tr...](http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/847538.FYI?from_search=true)

\- High Output Management by Andrew S. Grove >
[http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/324750.High_Output_Manage...](http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/324750.High_Output_Management?from_search=true)

\- The Personal MBA: Master the Art of Business by Josh Kaufman >
[http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9512985-the-personal-
mba?...](http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9512985-the-personal-
mba?ac=1&from_search=true)

------
mikeleeorg
1) Sure, it never hurts to ask for a raise. The range would depend on a bunch
of factors, such as your location. Try looking up the salary of your position
online, such as "technical manager salary" or "engineering manager salary" or
something like that.

2) Assuming you will be managing individual contributors (and not managers),
there are two basic types of first-line software managers:

2.1) Managers who need to still be individual contributors. These are the
types where you will still be expected to do some of the former work you did
before. It's a lot like being a technical lead, except you are suddenly now
thrust into a world of people management. Most technology companies view
first-line managers as having this kind of a responsibility, though larger
corporations with more established hierarchies may not.

2.2) Managers who are not expected to be individual contributors anymore. This
is a role where your responsibilities are managing the projects and people on
your team. (If your company has project managers, then that aspect of the role
won't be necessary.) In terms of people management, the responsibilities
include managing the career growth of the individual contributors in your
team, removing roadblocks from their paths (i.e. political, bureaucratic,
etc), potentially moving them around from project to project to better
allocate your resources to company priorities, recruit and retain people on
your team, mentor and train junior employees, set and reinforce a team
culture, and think strategically about how to make your entire team more
productive.

3) If your company offers management training, take it. If you like to read,
there are a ton of great management books out there. One of my personal favs
is "Now, Discover Your Strengths", though you can find plenty of
recommendations online if you search around. Talk to managers, senior
managers, directors, and VPs that you admire; interview them and ask them how
they do their jobs. HR or your manager will likely give you a bunch of
information on how to do performance reviews for your team. The art of
delivering constructive feedback can totally be learned, though if you are new
to it, it may take some time to become comfortable doing it.

This is all just off the top of my head. I'm sure I'm missing a lot of other
info, but this ought to be a good start.

Being a manager is not for everyone. Some call it "herding cats," which it may
sometimes feel like. But it can also be a tremendously rewarding role,
especially when you can set everyone up for success and can see them humming
along efficiently and effectively.

Good luck!

------
JakeAl
When you become a manager expect to train as a supervisor first. Ask or accept
a salary hike as a supervisor that is half of what you expect as a full blown
manager. Work your way to manager because if you don't have management
experience on resume by the time you are 40 expect nothing but freelance work
over the age 40 if you lose your job. Management experience is what separate
the expendable labor from the non-expendable staff. Management sucks, I mean
having authority is great but having to hire and fire sucks. It's a great deal
of responsibility and needs to be taken seriously and to be good you really
need to work hard at being empathetic, unemotional, and balancing risk versus
reward at the risk of your own career. To not do so just means you are a
riding a paycheck and not contributing a whole lot. I made the mistake of
going for the job of doing things I enjoy, worked on a lot of really cool
incredible projects for well known companies and found myself unemployed over
the age of 40 without the ability to get an interview despite my knowledge and
experience all because I was a go to guy who got the most complex jobs done
but was not a manager. Don't be me. Be humble, tell your superiors you want to
work your way up to management and spend time as asupervisor first so you can
train in the role as someone who must manage people and deal with HR issues
while not being a manager first. Set goals and mnilestones alonga timeline and
make sure they are checked off as accomplishments in your reviews. You need to
train as someone who has to get your staff to do what you want despite their
personalities but not make decisions about the company. Being a manager means
both. Once you become numb to taking a chance on employees and learning how to
communicate or have crucial converstions (read the book Crucial Conversations)
it becomes second nature to make business decisions and not get hung up on the
risk. I'd say set a goal of being an entry elevel manager at the age of 35. By
40 tha would make you a skilled intermediate to entry level senior manager
that every one repects because you've learned to master the skills.

~~~
big_bing
Thanks you for sharing the experience. I totally understand what you are
saying. Especially the part about 40+ and getting only freelance jobs. But I
have a question: As an entry manager, how do I go about managing the
incompetent team members. The reason I am being given the opportunity is that
they don't have anyone to take this role and the senior manager is finding it
hard to deal with so many people. But I have been working with the team as a
lead and it has been quite frustrating a few times due to total lack of
motivation,commitment and in many cases ability to learn from many members. I
am now being given the responsibility to manage them. I worry that I might be
getting into a role set for failure from the beginning itself.

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djb_hackernews
Just some feedback I haven't seen yet.

Most very large enterprises have 2 tracks: IC and management. Typically most
employees start out at IC and through defined and mutually agreed to career
development plans train for the management track. This may take a few years.
When the time comes for you to be a manager you have been operating in a
management role for some time. This is the Peter Principle.

I'd be _extremely_ wary of a surprise promotion in to management where a
discussion about that possibility hasn't happened. I've seen this before and
it can lead to disaster. You may be setting yourself up for failure or even
worse someone is setting you up for failure.

------
viraptor
1) You can always ask for a raise. If you work in a very large enterprise then
likely you've got a predefined levels / brackets for most positions up to a VP
or similar. If not, just ask them what the raise is for that position. There's
also a good podcast which may help you
([http://www.kalzumeus.com/2016/06/03/kalzumeus-podcast-
episod...](http://www.kalzumeus.com/2016/06/03/kalzumeus-podcast-
episode-12-salary-negotiation-with-josh-doody/))

------
debacle
1\. In my experience, managers in professional fields don't make vastly more
money than the people below them. If it's an addition of responsibilities, I
would ask for more money. If it's just a change, then does it make sense to
ask for more money?

2\. Learn, try and find a good mentor, get feedback, and set objective goals.

The hardest part about management is playing the carrot and stick game without
turning a report's life into a carrot and stick game.

~~~
GFischer
About 1), that depends on the country. Everywhere but in the U.S. (and a few
other exceptions), managers make vastly more money than ICs.

------
kapv89
[https://medium.com/@jessenoller/zen-of-python-applied-to-
man...](https://medium.com/@jessenoller/zen-of-python-applied-to-
management-424cf5bf9ea6#.oij4xohfj)

