
I’m a Developer. I Won’t Teach My Kids to Code, and Neither Should You - pseudolus
https://slate.com/human-interest/2018/12/against-teaching-kids-to-code-creativity-problem-solving.html
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HereBeBeasties
It's not like there's any correlation between practicing a complex learnt
art/skill when you are young, and your aptitude and ability for it later in
life, after all.

Otherwise all the best footballers would save themselves until they'd paved
their way to learning how to play by baking cookies and taking pride in it.

Or violinists. Or opera singers. Or mathematical prodigies. Or chess players.
Or engineers.

~~~
arandr0x
I've been a software engineer 10 years. There is in fact no correlation
between age started programming and programming aptitude, if taken for granted
that the person can code at all in adulthood. (There is a great correlation
between never coding as a child and never coding as an adult). I'll admit that
I'm talking about people who are over 30 today, so that when they learned as
children, it would have been of the calculator project and lighting DELs in
basic variety, and maybe kids today can learn some of the higher level more
directly work-relevant frameworks like React.

But still. Some of the best people I know when it comes to making up
algorithms for cutting edge problems, had definitely reached their adult
height when they first learned what a compiler was.

(I will grant I don't know any really good programmer who started coding at
e.g., 40. But there are relatively few people who change careers at 40, so my
sample size is very small. )

~~~
HereBeBeasties
Obviously I'm not saying that you absolutely _need_ to start young, but I
suspect there's a very strong correlation between people who discover and
stick at programming when they are young and those who are good at it.

I also suspect that if you flex those particular muscles hard from a
relatively early age, they will become stronger relative to someone who
doesn't. The original author believes that programming requires a unique
combination of skills/abilities which is why he is fond of it. If that's
genuinely the case you're better off starting practicing that earlier than
later, surely?

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DFXLuna
These kinds of blog posts are always awful. "These cash-grab books about
teaching kids to program are bad so teaching your kids to program is bad."
Throw in some anecdotal evidence about how the author is doing it right and
then show off to the internet.

It's not like there isn't a better underlying point that could have been
discussed (forcing STEM on kids) but the author didn't.

~~~
fatnoah
Totally agree. Teaching a kid to code is like teaching carpentry. Both are
skills that can be used to accomplish certain things and can be outlets for
creativity.

~~~
ido
Most importantly be observant of your child's natural interests and support
them in learning & improving in that direction.

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marsantwo
This author makes a few good points about teaching children to solve problems
, but, there is an unnecessary dis and a click-baiting title about not
teaching kids to code.

Teaching kids to code is not about turning everyone into a software
engineer/programmer/developer . It is about providing a key skill required to
work in whatever field in a world that is becoming more "software defined" .

Kids who grow up with these skills will have an advantage over those who need
start later in life .

Magazines like Slate should not be posting incoherent opinion pieces when the
whole industry is trying to up-skill the populace with job oriented skills.

~~~
ido
YES ^

Absolutely teach your kid (if they are actually interested) to code. It
doesn't matter that they'll write horrible, barely functional code. That's how
we all start.

They don't have to learn "proper" long-term coding etiquette - if they choose
to do it professionally they would have plenty of time & opportunities to
learn that.

Just get them started _anywhere_ so that that kindling of interest can grow
and they can make their mistakes and learn from them in a safe environment.

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nerpderp82
I am teaching everyone to think. Everyone should read this [1] article by
James Somers. Code is a problem not the solution, in my experience we have a
huge lack of creativity and domain knowledge. Cultivate those, and please
don't rob your children of their childhood with STEM. Like Papert, the
computer should be a tool FOR education, not the goal.

[1]
[https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/09/savin...](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/09/saving-
the-world-from-code/540393/)

~~~
lioeters
Thanks for an article with a relevant and related point to make. It sure made
me think about what I'm doing, and gave me a glimpse of a possible future.

"..a software developer’s proper role [is] to create tools that removed the
need for software developers."

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sinuhe69
Yes, I totally agree that for young children nurturing curiosity is far more
important thsn mastering any particular skill. Only reading has the same
impact on the development of children. But programming can be a lot of fun,
too. When I introduced my son to programming, I started with something visual
and has direct feedback like Scratch. Such environment frees children from the
tyranny of the syntax so they can focus more on the problem at hand and have
fun. Nevertheless, you can teach them a lot of computational thinking using
such visual environment. And I think the key issue is computational thinking,
not learning some particular languages or knowing how to solve a specific
problem using some specific features. I would not buy coding books for my son
when they present problem solving like a recipe book, even though one can get
inspired from some of the problems in such books. In my experience, combining
programming activity with other fields like maths, gaming or robotics can be
very rewarding. Children will understand that programming is only a tool and
not a purpose for itself and they will start looking for connection between
different subjects. Once they start to reflect on their activities, they will
learn a lot more than just doing it.

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kiriakasis
"You’re teaching them the world is full of interesting things to discover.
You’re showing them how to be passionate and look for that ephemeral sense of
quality in everything they do."

"Good coders don’t just get something to work. They want it to be good.

That feeling of quality is the hardest thing for many developers to master.
Well-designed code feels good to work with, and ugly code will make developers
involuntarily cringe. [..] Learning to trust that aesthetic feeling is as much
a part of development as any algorithm or coding pattern."

Some comments were about how the author says that people should teach problem
solving, but he actually proposes to teach an appreciation of quality and deep
inspection.

Another commented

> Next up, "I won't teach my kids arithmetic, and neither should you."

And this would apply depending how you teach arithmetic (also most people will
never need to code, everyone will need to do a lot of basic home finance) if
you want your child to become a mathematician then teaching multiplication
tables and long division are very inefficient focuses.

~~~
lern_too_spel
Arithmetic, carpentry, and coding are tools that enable you to solve certain
problems. In order to solve most problems, a person needs to pay attention to
detail, which was the author's point, but the author fails to understand that
paying attention to detail is orthogonal to the choice of tools to equip a
child with.

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Carpetsmoker
The last paragraph ("You’re teaching them the world is full of interesting
things to discover. [..] Adults can learn syntax. Only kids can learn to
embrace curiosity.") is why teaching some of the basics is probably a good
idea, I think. Just as teaching/showing the basics of _many_ things is a good
idea.

I agree with this article that some organisations (and parents) are _too_
focused on practical programming skills at a far too young of an age, but that
doesn't mean that showing _some_ basic stuff isn't a good idea. Ideally I'd
like my kids to be exposed to many different experiences, including the
experience of making a computer "do stuff".

I wrote a brief article on this last year: [https://arp242.net/weblog/kids-
programming.html](https://arp242.net/weblog/kids-programming.html)

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cweagans
While I generally agree with the point that teaching problem solving is
valuable in itself, my life would be far different if I didn't know how to
write code. I have a number of friends that are exceptionally good at problem
solving, yet they're struggling in dead end jobs that don't pay enough.
Software engineering, while certainly frustrating and occasionally tiresome,
has given me the financial flexibility to do more or less whatever I want in
my off hours. Hell, it's given me the flexibility to even have "off hours".
Programming isn't for everyone, but it's certainly not a bad thing to have at
least a little experience with.

~~~
toomuchtodo
I have made more money in my lifetime with Excel than I ever have with code.
Datapoint of one.

~~~
cweagans
It's certainly not the only way to make lots of money, but it's _a_ way.

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lern_too_spel
Next up, "I won't teach my kids arithmetic, and neither should you." Because
arithmetic is useless without problem solving.

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gnicholas
I liked the article well enough, but based on the title I was hoping for a
more thorough treatment of how the jobs of the future will not depend on
coding the way they do today. In pushing kids to code, we are "skating to
where the puck is" — not to where it will be.

What will the jobs that exist in 20 years require? Probably not as much coding
as some people think. It's still good for people to understand how
code/computers work, but I see too much focus on coding these days (I work in
edtech).

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BXLE_1-1-BitIs1
In ye old days programmers psychoanalyzed domain experts and attempted to
manipulate bytes in a way that met the desire of the domain experts (hopefully
without their manager mangling the specs).

Nowadays with Excel & SQL people off the street can get a lot done in the
application space.

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just_myles
You can teach your kids to problem solve, sure and more emphasis should be put
on that. So once children choose to start programming, they will already have
the knowledge to think critically and will have a much easier time resolving
issues. That is what is so good about critical thinking. It can be applied to
any field. Hope what I said makes sense.

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nielsbjerg
Kid brains are a sponge. I don't get why the author is either or in his
mindset. Sure problem solving and curiosity are more important than syntax,
but there is ample room for both.

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bitxbit
Teach your kids how to write. Short and long essays.

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sytelus
TLDR; post is without much of clear systematic argument. It seems author is
saying it's better if kids are not forced to practice _syntax_ and instead
spend their time in problem solving with physical activities.

