
Visual overview of radiator valves used in Germany [pdf] - rmoriz
https://www.eq-3.de/Downloads/eq3/download%20bereich/Ventilkompatibilitaeten-Model-N.pdf
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rmoriz
I posted this to show how difficult home automation devices can be and how
much one has to invest into proper localization. While the document shows that
for many combinations adapter exist, the price of the adapters is almost as
high as a new thermostat (most vendors changed the size in 1998 so if one has
a 20 year old home you still need an adapter or a plumber to replace the
valve.)

~~~
jonsen
Mount a power resistor close to and below the existing thermostat. The
thermostat can then be controlled by varying the current in the resistor. Only
a few Watts of power should be necessary. Maybe there’s a potential busyness
fabricating som form of “cup” with build in heating resistor fitting over
various types of thermostat.

~~~
jacobush
Wow! I can't believe I never thought of this! What a nice hack.

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dluan
Has anyone ever done a study of free-market configurations eventually
consolidating to a single standard? I almost feel like it's a quirk of
capitalism that initial introduction of a technology results in an immediate
mess of options and styles, before finally somehow there is a single accepted
standard.

For example, in the 90's the design for rollerblade frames (the part for the
wheels attached to the boot) were all over the place, but then a few skate
manufacturers agreed on a single design called the Universal Frame System. As
soon as it was adopted, it unleashed a whole bunch of innovation in boots,
wheels, liners, etc, because suddenly you don't have to fuss over on
particular part and can then spend that energy on smaller, more interesting
innovations in the rest of the product. Like suspension in the frames!

I'm sure there's analogies for open-source standards getting adopted. But if
this is indeed universal, maybe it's an argument for a future techno-socialist
state to mandate standards so that we are not accidentally designing the 99th
radiator valve or javascript bundler, and instead society can get to work on
the cooler problems.

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tomovo
The shipping container. You can read The Box - a book about how much effort it
took to make it accepted.

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max_sendfeld
I generally feel that there's a huge opportunity for companies building
normalization layers for physical infrastructure that future IoT and software
companies can build upon - similar to what Bloomberg did for exchange price
feeds or countless startups currently do for bank accounts

~~~
Cthulhu_
There's adapters for most of these - is that what you meant? Or does it need
to be an IoT internet-connected smart adapter?

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edejong
Perhaps slightly unrelated. We've been using the eQ-3 Max radiator heating
system (from the article) in our house for three years now to control our
radiators on a room-by-room basis. Connected with OpenHAB 2 [1], this has been
a great experience.

Given the low price of each radiator controller, the engineering is top-notch.
Mesh network works all of the time, the batteries last for multiple years and
the installation is relatively painless.

This is one of the few IoT solutions that 'do-not-suck'. No calling-home to
China, no unexpected updates and upgrades, no complicated install process.

[1] Openhab Website [https://www.openhab.org/](https://www.openhab.org/)

~~~
Slartie
I've been using the same system for almost 5 years now, with no real problems.
Has more than paid for itself by now.

I didn't switch to OpenHAB though, but instead hacked their original desktop
control software, which is actually a Java web app with a localhost-bound
Tomcat, to make it runnable on a headless Linux box and bind to the LAN IP.
This way I have their control panel available constantly and remotely. Works
surprisingly well and stable, given that this mode of operation was never
intended.

Their actually-intended remote control path (via a server provided by the
manufacturer) is crap however, very slow reaction time, unreliable and you
somehow have to pay a subscription after a trial period.

~~~
edejong
That's a nice approach. Do you control the radiators using other inputs?

Our current system works using a CalDAV calendar with repeating appointments
providing information about work/home/sleep times. This is combined with
presence detection using our mobile phones and Z-Wave motion detectors. This
also controls lights, light color temperature and our ventilation system. All
events go to InfluxDB / Grafana combo. OpenHAB 2 is the spider in this web of
IoT stuff.

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nmeofthestate
To me, this is a strange document. I would expect anyone wanting to IoT'ify
their TRVs to just get entirely new radiator valves, rather than trying to
remove the manual knob on their existing radiator valves and replace it with
an electronically actuated "knob". (I'm in the UK). The threads that connect
to supply pipes and radiators are quite standardised.

~~~
Xylakant
> to just get entirely new radiator valves, rather than trying to remove the
> manual knob on their existing radiator valves and replace it with an
> electronically actuated "knob"

Replacing the knob is a safe operation that cannot leak water. I could do that
on all radiators in a flat without ever running the risk of causing a leak.
Replacing the valve would require opening the water circuit, thus you'd first
need to turn of pressure, which may or may not be possible (think: apartment
building). Replacing the valve may also not be allowed for people that rent a
flat.

~~~
nmeofthestate
Yeah obviously, but I find it strange that this would be a big issue when
you're doing something like going round changing all your TRVs. Drain the
system, do the replacements, re-pressurise. It is a weird way of approaching
the job from the perspective of how TRVs are sold where I come from.

~~~
jnty
I didn't realise there were any smart radiator valve systems, in the UK or
elsewhere, which needed to be plumbed in - do you know of any? I'm pretty sure
all of them work, in your terminology, as electrically actuated 'knobs' on top
of existing valves.

De/re-pressurising your central heating system and physically replacing all
the valves is a task that's going to require specialist tools and probably a
plumber. It's also pointless, as there's basically only one standard, so you'd
have nothing to replace them with. Replacing the knobs on top is a case of
watching a youtube video and spending two minutes with a screwdriver - which
is the intent of the design.

What you're saying is broadly comparable to "why would you buy smart
lightbulbs when you can just replace the entire light fitting and all the
switches in your home?" \- except I'd argue that's actually easier for the
layman than messing with radiators.

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rmoriz
UPDATE: The URL is broken. New location is
[https://www.eq-3.de/Downloads/eq3/download%20bereich/Ventil-...](https://www.eq-3.de/Downloads/eq3/download%20bereich/Ventil-
Kompatibilitaetsliste.pdf)

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dsfyu404ed
There needs to be an additional column with a "?" for all the pictures. The
name of that valve is "I have a milling machine I do what I want".

Every facility above a certain size will have a few modified parts that were
created (not necessarily with a mill, often with hand tools) and installed
over the years to meet various needs.

Edit: Lol, why is this down-voted? Encountering modified parts is like a
weekly occurrence depending on the age of the systems you're working on. Ask
the maintenance dept. at your local community college if you don't believe me.

~~~
seszett
> _why is this down-voted?_

You are responding with snark, on a topic on adapters for use in homes, with
solutions that you yourself say are for "facilities above a certain size".

Your post is off-topic, but you might very well have been upvoted if you had
presented it in a more positive way, like talking about your prior experience
machining valves for your own heating system. That would have been
interesting.

