
The 10,000 Year Clock - mkempe
http://longnow.org/clock/
======
drallison
I'd like to recommend The Interval at the Long Now, a bar that's integrated
with Long Now's presence in Fort Mason in San Francisco. If I were living in
SF, this would be my hangout. Parts of a prototype 10K clock were used to
construct some of the bar furniture--very cool and modern. The bar is small,
intimate, and can be crowded but is usually filled with interesting people.
Fridays brings _Off the Grid at Fort Mason Center for Arts & Culture_, a food
truck event, in the parking lot near the Interval.

~~~
hagurganus
I can attest to the fact that this is one of the coolest places in SF if
you’re into futurism—which I think is saying a lot. It’s the first place I
take guests from out of town.

~~~
dogecoinbase
I can attest to two things -- the Interval is a great spot to grab a good
drink (and the talks they put on are great, and attract a great crowd)... and
I lost a ton of respect for the Long Now Foundation when they pivoted from the
future of humanity to conspicuous consumption three feet above sea level.

~~~
Abekkus
Society will need to overcome endemic unemployment and autonomous weapons
before San Francisco will have to worry about sea level rise.

~~~
torstenvl
Overcome autonomous weapons?

~~~
wpietri
It's not as crazy as it sounds. Consider this, for example:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqHrTtvFFIs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqHrTtvFFIs)

They still might not be a real threat, though. Perhaps you and Abekkus would
like to register a wager with the Long Now prediction registry and betting
site? [http://longbets.org/](http://longbets.org/)

~~~
torstenvl
Is an individual soldier not an autonomous weapon? Autonomy in war is an
unchangeable given, not something to be (or that can be) overcome.

Talking about "autonomous weapons" as something to "overcome" seems like anti-
AI fear-mongering. There doesn't seem to be any real basis for it other than
assuming as a foregone conclusion that AI is necessarily prone to inhumane
malice. I'm vastly more afraid of most humans having weapons than I am of AI
having weapons.

~~~
wpietri
I don't think it's as clean a division as you suggest.

Imagine somebody takes a drone platform with decent processing power, mounts a
gun like that, and builds in basic target-seeking. Then they make 100 of those
and turn them loose in a major metropolitan area. They'd fit neatly into a box
truck and cost under $100k in parts.

It might not be as deadly as 100 people with guns, but logistically it's a
hell of a lot easier and cheaper, and I'd expect it to have a higher terror
value. Especially if you have them mostly land on rooftops and wait for a
random period.

That's reasonably doable given current tech. And we expect a lot of progress
in ML and robotics over the next decade. Imagine ones that listen for police
radio frequency use and then very accurately target people in uniform, for
example. Ones that can wait days or weeks outside charging. Ones that
collaborate to map, track, and overcome threats.

Personally I'm not particularly worried about it. America already has a lot of
weapons and explosives sloshing around; I expect we'll figure out how to deal
with this too. But I do expect we'll have to deal with it. Too much of our
existing defense is tuned for humans. E.g., fences and walls have been an
important part of defense technology for at least 10,000 years.

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lb1lf
Jens Olsen (Danish locksmith and (I believe largely self-taught) watchmaker
designed and (partially, as he died before it was complete) designed what is
to me the most impressive mechanical clock in existence today - Jens Olsens
Verdensur, housed in the lobby of the Copenhagen town hall.

It keeps track of several astronomical events, easter &c - and is, as
mechanical clocks go, allegedly the most accurate clock in existence.

It will only have completed its largest cycle sometime around the year 27000AD
- as long as someone sticks around to wind it weekly and perform maintenance,
that is.

Not quite the same philosophy behind it as the Long Now - but amazing
engineering porn nonetheless, and definitely recommended to drop by if you
ever find yourself anywhere near Copenhagen.

Brief video showing it in action:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2CtSWchTIs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2CtSWchTIs)

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mpweiher
At this point and to me, the clock itself is almost an afterthought compared
to the _Seminars About Long Term Thinking_ (SALT):
[http://longnow.org/seminars/podcast/](http://longnow.org/seminars/podcast/)

Amazing talk series.

~~~
6d6b73
For anyone in New England - new Long Now chapter is now forming in Boston and
we have an upcoming seminar on Feb 5th.
[http://bit.ly/2n2Kc0R](http://bit.ly/2n2Kc0R)

~~~
bbctol
Say they're "organizationally independent but philosophically aligned" with
the Long Now foundation; I assume they at least have some formal arrangement
with the original?

~~~
6d6b73
Yes, we have the blessing of LN and, we're working on creating a non-profit
org.

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11thEarlOfMar
Here's the story from Wired in 1995:

[https://www.wired.com/1995/12/the-millennium-
clock/](https://www.wired.com/1995/12/the-millennium-clock/)

I remember reading it and being inspired, even then. It's taken more than 20
years to bring it to life, which I suppose is appropriate. Why hurry?

------
doh
The creators of the project also wrote a book about their thinking [0]. I
highlighted the hell out of this book.

[0] [https://www.amazon.com/Clock-Long-Now-Time-Responsibility-
eb...](https://www.amazon.com/Clock-Long-Now-Time-Responsibility-
ebook/dp/B003P9XCY4/)

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hawktheslayer
Facinating concept. I like how they embed their philosophy into the article by
saying the idea was thought up in 01995.

~~~
im3w1l
All I see is an octal number. C ruined me.

~~~
Someone
A very special octal number, having two nines in it.

~~~
pklausler
Which of course was fine in original C.

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pselbert
There was a Stuff You Should Know podcast about this just recently [0]. An
impressive amount of engineering has gone into something that seems much more
artistic than scientific.

1: [https://www.stuffyoushouldknow.com/podcasts/whats-
the-10000-...](https://www.stuffyoushouldknow.com/podcasts/whats-
the-10000-year-clock.htm)

~~~
NaOH
There's also a 2004 podcast episode on the clock from a Long Now Seminar.

[http://podcast.longnow.org/salt/salt-020040910-hillis-
podcas...](http://podcast.longnow.org/salt/salt-020040910-hillis-podcast.mp3)

------
lelandbatey
The very first thing that I thought of was the massive clocks in the book
Anathem, by Neal Stephenson, clocks which could run in a kind of "low power
mode" for at least 700 years.

~~~
mulmen
Anathem was inspired by his involvement in this project.

[http://longnow.org/events/02008/sep/09/anathem-book-
launch/](http://longnow.org/events/02008/sep/09/anathem-book-launch/)

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app4soft
After reading this article I still don't understand it's mechanism.

Just got free PDF from it's "Prototype1" webpage[0] for dive deeply in its
mechanics...

[0] [http://longnow.org/clock/prototype1](http://longnow.org/clock/prototype1)

~~~
mtreis86
I scanned through the PDF and it looks like the main mechanisms are torsion
pendulums. I am assuming that's what the two towers with weights are.

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kiddico
I can't wait for the progeny of clickspring to make a video recreating this
step by step.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML4tw_UzqZE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML4tw_UzqZE)

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deeporist
There is an album related to this project.
[https://www.amazon.com/January-07003-Bell-Studies-
Clock/dp/B...](https://www.amazon.com/January-07003-Bell-Studies-
Clock/dp/B0000ACXT6) I known it from a TED speech
[https://www.ted.com/talks/stewart_brand_on_the_long_now](https://www.ted.com/talks/stewart_brand_on_the_long_now)

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larkeith
This project is very cool, but the writing style of the website puts me off
too much to read through the whole thing. Is there another source of info
about this?

~~~
pqs
The wikipedia article is quite good as a general introduction.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock_of_the_Long_Now](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock_of_the_Long_Now)

The official website is badly designed. It is difficult to learn about the
general design of the clock. I couldn't find it!

~~~
larkeith
Thank you for the link, what a fascinating project!

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sshine
I can't help but think: Are they taking earthquakes into account?

~~~
Cyberdog
In Texas? Probably not.

------
mulmen
Has this been completed? I have followed this for years on their webpage but
the only information I can find says it is "under construction".

~~~
discorderant
Not yet. Still likely some time before it will be finished.

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dandare
What is the purpose of this project? Is it just art? I can not help but think
how much good could have been done with the money.

~~~
imglorp
I feel it's more.

We have so many short term ideas: chasing quarterly profits, carrying a
national debt, passing climate decline to our kids, designing garbage
appliances and vehicles that fail right after warranty, and on and on.

This is showing us where the other side of the road is with long term
thinking. How do you keep an institution running--physically and socially--for
10 ky? How do you even communicate with people 10 ky from now? We can't even
read half the stuff written in stone 2 ky ago about big things like kings and
wars; forget about writing a detailed maintenance manual, or describing tools
or materials they'll need in a language probably dead for thousands of years.
Will they even want to?

So by having examples of both kinds of organizations, the middle of the road
is more moderate, moved away from disposable, self serving, instant
gratification and more towards sustainable and altrustic.

------
Animats
It's not finished yet?

~~~
rtkwe
News on the actual clock has been a little sparse over the last couple years
but last I heard they had finished drilling out the main entrance and vertical
shafts for the clock and some of the large central components had been created
(iirc the winder and the escapement). The latest update on their long now
clock Texas website is from 02011 though. Biggest problem with having your
project be a pet project of a mega-rich guy like Bezos, it can die/wither on a
whim, not sure if that's what's happened but it's been a _long_ time with no
news.

~~~
andyjohnson0
The last update to the members-only clock blog was three years ago. It
mentions that the tapering spiral staircase around the main shaft had been
cut. and the 80 foot high chime generator mechanism was completed.

~~~
rtkwe
That's great. I wish they'd put more stuff out to public spots though.

PS when you say members only blog that's a Long Now membership?

~~~
andyjohnson0
Yes, I'm a member.

