

Malcolm Gladwell asserts that Gates, not Jobs, will be remembered in 50 years - mschen
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-57449162-71/in-50-years-steve-jobs-will-be-forgotten-gladwell-says/

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chollida1
Is this considered a controversial point?

I would have thought that most people would have thought the same thing.

it's really been amazing to see how Bill Gates reputation has rebounded in
tech forums in the past 5 years.

5 years ago it would be the rule rather than the exception for Bill to be bad
mouthed in tech forums. Now I've noticed that it's mostly the opposite.

My guess is that in 50 years Bill Gates will be more remembered because his
achievements will seem alot more amazing that Steve Job's.

Bill will be remembered as the guy who put a computer in every house and then
went on to save billions of people.

In 50 years Apple may no longer even exist, it will be much harder for people
to remember Jobs as the guy who saved apple and help make computer animated
films popular.

~~~
pbreit
Not only is it controversial but it's probably wrong. Bill Gates hardly comes
up in conversation anymore and Microsoft's relevance is way less than a
company of its revenues, product usage and stature should be. I couldn't even
name a single thing the Gates Foundation is doing, much less has accomplished.
No one will remember desktop computers in 50 years when computing will be all
around us (moved ever so far forward by Apple products). Your last sentence is
drastically understating the impact Jobs had on multiple massive industries.

~~~
eaurouge
You can't name a single thing the Gates Foundation has done because you're
uninformed and, unfortunately, don't seem to see anything wrong with that.

~~~
pbreit
Well, I would consider myself pretty well-informed. But, no, I did not have
the Gates Foundation's education and malaria funding top-of-mind. And after
some brief research am still not quite sure what the money is going towards
and if it is accomplishing much.

~~~
eaurouge
The Gates Foundation has arguably had more impact on human welfare than any
other private organization in history, and yet is still in its early stages.
So when you say you know nothing of this work, it suggests a lack of awareness
of, and lack of curiosity in, global matters.

 _And after some brief research am still not quite sure what the money is
going towards and if it is accomplishing much._

When you follow up with this, it suggests that either your "brief research"
was too brief or your research skills are poor.

Now perhaps you've said all this to make a point, but that's not how it comes
across.

------
kschua
I agree that Gates and not Jobs will be remembered in 50 years, but for a
different reason.

Gates vision of "a computer in every home" made computers a common item in
most household in developed countries. People are using computers in their
home and offices, where would we be without them.

In the same way people remember the Wright Brothers for planes, Edison for the
light bulb (yes, he wasn't the first to invent it, but that's beside the
point). Gates will probably be remembered for the personal computer.

If he succeeds with the malaria vaccine, it be just another feather in his cap

~~~
pbreit
I don't really associate Bill Gates with "a computer in every home" and in
fact it was Steve Jobs and Apple's vision well before Microsoft. And in 50
years I think we are going to be much more aware of "a computer in every
pocket" and probably computers everywhere. The whole desktop thing will be
quite quaint.

~~~
kschua
Do you have links which says that "a computer in every home" is Jobs' vision?
Google search throws up Bill Gates. There is even a plaque for it
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/mwichary/2184937614/>

Though I believe that there are others who should also be remembered, but I am
of the opinion that rightly or wrongly history will remember and associate
Gates with computers much like Edison is to lightbulbs, Wright is to planes
and Bell is to telephones (this is what kids are still being taught)

~~~
pbreit
We will see. Apple made the first widely used home computer and its "computer
on every desk" predates Microsoft's "computer on every desk and in every home"
(no surprise that Microsoft co-opted Apple's vision here).

I have a hard time believing that someone will be remembered for "computers"
when he didn't even make them (same for Gates' involvement for whatever
eventually happens with malaria since the one thing for certain is that Gates
will not have been the one to eradicate it).

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Goladus
This depends on whose memory you are talking about. For leader-types,
academics and historians looking to study someone with massive charisma and
ambition, it's Jobs they are going to remember. Videos of speeches and
interviews will be preserved, and where Jobs and Gates are side by side it's
clear that Jobs is the one with the presence.

For everyone else including the general public, it'll probably still be Gates,
but Jobs certainly won't be forgotten, if for no other reason than his
involvement in Pixar. Pixar's original string of hits (Toy Story{, 2}, A Bug's
Life, Finding Nemo, etc) are definitely going to survive in public
consciousness longer than 50 years. The narrative of Pixar itself will
probably survive that long as well.

~~~
SudarshanP
One of the videos that will be circulating around for quiet some time is
[http://ed.ted.com/lessons/steve-jobs-at-stanford-
university-...](http://ed.ted.com/lessons/steve-jobs-at-stanford-university-
commencement-2005)

------
technosmurf
rprasad wrote:

> You can quibble over whether he donated a dollar or two to some bum
> somewhere, but ultimately, Steve Jobs donated less to charity than either of
> us.

I don't know how to reply to individual posts, so I'll write in the main
thread. Rprasad, you are still assuming many things about Jobs' private
attitude in regards to charitable giving. After the New York Times opinion
piece that appeared to stir up controversy after Jobs' resignation on Aug. 24,
2011, Bono wrote this as a response:

"Apple has been (RED)’s largest contributor to the Global Fund to Fight AIDS,
Tuberculosis and Malaria — giving tens of millions of dollars that have
transformed the lives of more than two million Africans through H.I.V.
testing, treatment and counseling. This is serious and significant...

You don’t have to be a friend of his to know what a private person he is or
that he doesn’t do things by halves." [1]

What most people don't know when they compare Bill Gates and Steve Jobs is
that Jobs' Buddhist beliefs probably influenced the nature of his charitable
giving, which is to do it anonymously.

[1] [http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/02/opinion/bono-praises-
steve...](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/02/opinion/bono-praises-steve-jobs-
as-generous-and-poetic.html?_r=3)

------
sendos
I disagree. Jobs achieved the greatest comeback in business history. He was
ousted from his own company, the company almost goes bankrupt, he returns, and
with one innovative and wildly successful product after another manages to
make it the most valuable company in the world (in terms of market cap).

I don't think this story will be forgotten in 50 years.

I also don't think Gates will be forgotten either in 50 years. Maybe in the
much longer term Gates will be remembered more than Jobs.

------
msabalau
Clara Barton founded the American Red Cross, which provides disaster relief,
first aid training, and large amount of the blood that saves people's lives in
the US.

I suspect that she is less well known than many historical figures with no
humanitarian impact. PT Barnum, Harry Houdini, or Bonnie and Clyde spring to
mind.

Gates humanitarian work is commendable. One could make an argument that he is
a more important figure in the history of the business of computing than Steve
Jobs.

But I doubt that merit or rational argument will determine who will be
remembered in 50 years.

Steve Jobs is a compelling character. His life is a colorful, primal and
enthralling story. He said interesting things, in an interesting way. He will
be remembered long after the guy who spent a lot of money to eliminate a
disease that people will not be dying from.

Fair? No. Likely? Yes.

------
siglesias
It's somewhat odd that folks are suddenly measuring greatness along the
dimension of philanthropy and forgetting that people who make history come in
all shapes and sizes--good, bad, greedy, selfless, originals, remixers,
creators of that which has fallen and creators of that which is still with us.
To suggest that Jobs won't be with us simply because he didn't donate to
charity is to forget a great number of reasons why people are remembered.

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brainless
I have for the last few years personally thought about this many times over.

I am from India and understand the problems that Bill Gates is trying to help
solve, with his money, management skills and time.

I am a tech fan-boy and love good gadgets, I work hard to earn and buy a
gadget. But people like me are minority. And moreover those gadgets die in 3
years flat.

For countries like ours, it is crucial to solve the socioeconomic problems and
head towards a better tomorrow. In that respect what Bill Gates has been
doing, has inspired me to think differently. He has made capitalism also look
much better (I come from communist backgrounds). You earn and then you give
back, the way you want to, where you want to.

Having an impact on actual living conditions of people is far more important
than building better OS with a Metro UI or even a better phone with dual
cores.

------
Kilimanjaro
So, a software baron in the same league as Pablo Escobar, who made billions in
shady ways and tried to clean his name giving it all away, will be remembered
more than a guy who was a living god among artists, creators, marketers and
geeks?

Sure you can buy a couple of pages in history, a billion a piece, but your
tarnished reputation won't wash away easily, no matter how many vaccines you
fund or how many shills to down vote me you pay.

You can spend all your money buying a heaven but that won't make you a saint.

~~~
BlackJack
This is moronic. You're suggesting that Gates' work to eradicate malaria is
worth less than Steve Jobs being worshipped among creative people? This kind
of stupidity is prevalent among those who have never seen poverty in life.

I didn't downvote you because I respect your opinion, but I think you're dead
wrong.

~~~
Kilimanjaro
Have you seen poverty? Do you know where I live? Do you know how much money I
have? Do you know what I had for lunch today? You don't. You won't win this
fight so you better put the gloves down.

Back to the original idea of the post, you can't glorify a man who has ruined
countless lives amassing a fortune with unethical practices, perhaps not
illegal, but morally reprehensive no matter how you look at bribery, strong
arming, patent trolling, fudding, and many more vicious ways of making money
while keeping your competitors at bay, going bankrupt, and erasing them from
their path to world domination.

So now that I have billions to boot and I will be remembered like a ruthless
extortionist I decide to clean up my name and contract the greatest PR firm
who tells me to give it all away in the most humane way possible, curing
people, and paying bold headlines every time my "charitable donations" solve a
third world problem.

Look pal, I don't know you and neither Gates nor Jobs put food on my table so
fuck them all, but don't tell me I don't know poverty for I have seen the ugly
innards of the beast and Saint Gates won't get me out of here, thanks but save
your compassion.

Don't talk about stupidity if you can't even grasp the meaning of ignorance.

\----

Please accept my apologies if I offended you, this stupid fight won't make us
better persons.

------
scorpion032
Both Bill and Steve are class individuals right in their own accord and have
changed the world for ever in their own ways.

They haven't (and shouldn't) base their life's actions on what will be
remembered some indefinite time after their death but on what their calling
is; on their existential view of the world and their purpose in it.

Since their actions are not optimized on how to be remembered the most, I
think it is naive for us to try to predict it and while doing so, judging two
highly accomplished individuals in the same scale. There is no absolute scale
of who is better. It is all relative. We would all do better trying to focus
on our purpose and calling in our existential view of the world and
acknowledge others'.

------
faramarz
You can watch the video here
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyL9H4wJ0VE&feature=share](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyL9H4wJ0VE&feature=share)
(I recommend it).

This statement is part of a larger Entrepreneurship discussion

------
franze
some weeks ago i got talked into setting up the internet connection on windows
vista machine (of a friend) - a very simple task i though. it was a horrible
and unbelievable stupid experience. it took me two hours(!!!)

according to a quick google at least 88 000 000 windows vista copies had been
sold. i expect that at least (and on average) every vista user had run into a
similar issue at least once (probably more often, but lets calculate with
"just once").

this means at least 176000000 hours have been wasted in a similar fashion.
that's 7333333.33333333 days or 20091.324200913 years. well, if we calculate
with a life expectancy of 70 years, this means that this was the life time of
287 people.

well, i think with this track recoded, yeah, bill gates will be remembered.

~~~
moreorless
Not everyone is as inexperienced as you are in Windows Vista networking. Just
because it took you two hours to figure out something, doesn't mean that it is
the same thing for everyone.

~~~
Samuel_Michon
I've put a lot of time into making a home network with both Vista and XP. It's
near impossible. I'm not dumb, Windows is dumb.

------
ajju
False dichotomy.

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codgercoder
Probably not Ritchie, either.

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rprasad
Everyone remembers Carnegie, Mellon, Rockefeller, and Stanfurd because of
their generous acts. Nobody remembers their almost-as-successful, but far less
generous competitors.

To date, Bill Gates has donated more money to charity than _Steve Jobs was
ever worth._ Steve Jobs...has donated less money to charity than your average
churchgoer.

~~~
shpoonj
Oh so you have Jobs' personal finance records? That's amazing! And you're
breaking the news here on HN of all places!

Okay but seriously, you don't have a clue what Jobs did with his money and
neither do I. So there's no point speculating.

~~~
kennywinker
According to the NYT "there is no public record of Mr. Jobs giving money to
charity" ([http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/08/29/the-mystery-of-
steve-...](http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/08/29/the-mystery-of-steve-jobss-
public-giving/)).

Giving publicly is important if you want to be remembered for your charitable
work.

~~~
shpoonj
Right. Wanting to be remembered is just as selfish of an act as attaching your
name to a donation.

Whether Jobs donated anonymously or didn't donate at all, I can respect him so
much more for not chasing attention and approval.

~~~
sliverstorm
So you're completely discounting the value of Gates attempting to inspire
others to give- particularly other rich people?

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rsanchez1
Well, all the attention around Jobs was pretty much fanboyism, and it was more
of a fad that arose from the iPhone/iPad. In 50 years, there will be another
fad with another face on it for fanboys to obsess over, while at the same
time, Gates' philanthropic contributions will be remembered as the model
billionaire.

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shpoonj
It's funny when people who won't be remembered at all try to detract from the
legacies of great people.

Okay not funny, just stupid.

Gladwell has joined the ranks of those who make ridiculous statements about
things they are ignorant of just to grab headlines.

