
Microsoft Is Building Internet Explorer into Its New Chromium Edge - dfabulich
https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18527875/microsoft-chromium-edge-new-features-build-2019
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tantalor
"totally seamless... you’d never be able to tell the difference... designed
exclusively for businesses"

Sounds like a security nightmare. I assume IE mode is vulnerable to XSS
attacks that the normal Chromium mode protects against. So a user might be
duped into thinking they are safe when they visit a random site that forces IE
mode. Because it's "totally seamless" they won't notice. Better yet, it only
affects business users, the prime target for XSS.

~~~
javagram
If the feature is in fact designed exclusively for businesses, the IE11 mode
will only activate on a whitelisted list of sites pushed out via your
corporate provisioning process.

I believe this is how the feature already works today in Edge anyway, it just
opens a new window instead of a new tab.

~~~
Mindwipe
The biggest offender seems to be SharePoint nowadays. Maybe Microsoft could
try and make it less of a heap.

~~~
freeone3000
Sharepoint 2017 doesn't have this problem, Sharepoint 2007 does.

~~~
Mindwipe
Opening a folder from SharePoint in Windows Explorer still requires IE in
2017.

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bla3
On one hand, it's commendable how seriously Microsoft takes backward
compatibility. On the other hand, I can't help but feel that this is part of
what's holding them back in their "modern browser" efforts. Edge felt like a
new start but failed. Chromium Edge feels like yet another new start, but
again is tied down by support for ancient IE versions from day one.

~~~
thelarkinn
On the Edge team and I can tell you, in no way, does supporting IE, hold back
our development capabilities.

If anything, it enables more companies to adopt Edge without concern of
breaking support for their legacy applications.

We see that Developers are the ones held back by older versions, and we see
this as a huge win for them.

~~~
bla3
So implementing this took zero work? Probably not. Do you think it will cost
nothing to maintain? Probably neither. So I don't see how "in no way" could be
true.

~~~
thelarkinn
I never said there wasn't a cost. Every technical decision comes with trade-
offs.

But costs don't hold us back from developing amazing new features [for
developers and consumers] for the future. <3

~~~
mariondaly
I work on the Edge team as well.

\-- This is largely work that already existed in the older Edge instance, just
made more seamless and with a proper allow-list to make it more secure.

It didn't take zero work but it didn't need an overhaul of the DOM or anything
like that.

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dfabulich
This could be the feature that finally kills off IE11. A bunch of businesses
mandate IE11 to ensure compatibility with unmaintained internal systems; if
they can use Edge in IE11 mode, there's no reason to use the IE11 app.

(This really makes me wish IE11 mode had been a feature of Edge from the very
beginning. Think of how much time we've lost!)

~~~
spankalee
I'm not sure how much it would have mattered to have IE mode before, since
Edge only ran on Windows > 8.1

IE mode is really killer when combined with the fact that the new Edge will
run on Windows 7.

~~~
dfabulich
Windows 7 isn't my biggest concern, though I agree that IE mode on Edge for
Win7 will strike a killing blow.

According to my site's analytics, 41% of our IE11 users are on Windows 10,
plus another 5.63% on Windows 8. (Windows 7 reaches End of Life in January
2020.)

~~~
yjftsjthsd-h
So then ~53% of your IE11 users are still on Windows 7? That certainly sounds
like something you should still care about.

~~~
dfabulich
I do care, (and of course we still support IE11 on any OS version) but
Win7/IE11 users are gradually upgrading on their own.

I was afraid that IE11 would literally never go away. Microsoft has said that
they'll support IE11 until Windows 10 reached End of Life. But they've also
said that Windows 10 is the "last version" of Windows, that they'll continue
shipping new updates for Windows 10 in perpetuity.

Now, I have hope.

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chrismeller
Oh great. So we’re back to “is it running in quirks mode” level crap now?

Just like it _seemed_ like a great idea that would be “seamless” last time
around, it will again...

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Hamuko
Hopefully web developers can be given a tool to force their site to never run
in "quirks mode". Like having a meta tag or something.

~~~
yjftsjthsd-h
That seems worse? If anything it should be opt-in.

~~~
lol768
I suppose the issue with it being opt-in is that legacy, unmaintained internal
tools won't have the opt-in mechanism

~~~
tantalor
Your domain admin could enable IE mode for certain sites and block it for all
others.

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gscott
This is important. There is a Government website that I use that only works in
IE. They built it years ago through contractors using .Net and I bet they
don't have any ability to change it. I wonder if they even have the original
source code.

~~~
nnq
...another point in the favor of _legally forcing_ governments and public
institutions to use open-source software and open data formats.

This should be as plain and simple as stating that _" if there exists a fully
functional open-source technology that satisfies a public institution's need,
the institution should be forced to use such technology instead of any
proprietary alternative, or to demand it's contractors to develop a custom
open-source solution, even if it's more expensive then a proprietary
alternative"_ (with some "sane" limit like it can be "up to but not more than
5x as expensive" \- there's befits to society from funding "a bit" of os dev
from public funds, but not over do it...).

"Software capitalism" and public infrastructure don't mix well. And private
companies can still make tons of money _developing_ , _customizing /extending_
and _supporting_ open-source software for use by gov clients.

 _But if it 's paid from people's taxes, it should only be open-source!_

~~~
ljm
How do you solve the issue of a tech-illiterate government throwing bundles of
cash at the first company that sets the most unrealistic expectation at a cost
that still seems 'valid'?

Half the stuff a government has contracted out for mils or bils could have
been mostly implemented by small shops charging a few hundred K tops.

Unless you still believe a glorified CMS/ERP takes billions to write.

~~~
majkinetor
It can be solved. Gov tech people could be excluded from the laws dictating
gov salaries. They must have concurrent salary.

Given that, most would stay in gov I think - the domain is fantastic for
serious engineers - entire country of clients, usually all domestic companies
or people must be involved, most services should work 24/7, have zero downtime
etc. Its as hard as it can get without being at Google and Facebook IMO.

There are other ideas to solve this problem too, but let me not digress here.

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beart
I'm concerned this will actually discourage companies from updating to move
away from IE11. It's a lot easier to install a new browser than it is to
actually update whatever is running in it.

~~~
skybrian
I'm thinking that's their problem (and Microsoft's opportunity). As long as
public websites don't see traffic in IE11 mode, it doesn't affect other web
developers. Hopefully.

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Someone1234
If it supports Java Applets, I'll do a little dance.

We have to keep supporting IE11 because Java Applets continue to be used for
intranet corporate and government stuff. No other browser officially supports
them except IE11.

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hackily
Will IE mode be available on the other platforms? OSX? Testing IE on non-
windows devices is a pain in the unmentionables, maybe this can make it
easier.

~~~
tracker1
Pretty sure this will be a Windows only feature... the IE Active X (COM)
engine is already running on windows, this is just a relatively small feature
that uses it.

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antaviana
What will happen to the embedded webbrowser control? Will it continue to be
IE, will it be Chromium or will it disappear from Windows?

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leshokunin
I'm really confused by the fact that both IE and Edge exist. It seems so
contrary to the move towards convergence (having Xbox on Windows, Linux kernel
on Windows, Windows on ARM...). Why the need for two brands?

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partiallypro
I'm hoping this means they are going to strip IE from Windows entirely now.

~~~
pndy
Pretty sure they can't because Trident is still being used in rendering a lot
of stuff inside Windows, not mention the 3rd-party programs

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futurix
We migrated from the age of IE shells (2000s) to the age of Blink shells...

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kgwxd
Will "IE Mode" support "Compatibility View"?

