

Show HN: A toolbar you actually want to use (No download, no registration) - photon_off

http://www.dashler.com/toolbar/<p>Dashler Toolbar is a bookmarklet that opens up a toolbar of shortcuts to various webpages, and allows for super easy bookmarking.  You can open the toolbar, highlight content, then open up a floating window of the results on any of (currently) dozens of websites, like Wikipedia, IMDb, various dictionaries, translate, etc.  Some shortcuts use the URL or Domain of the page you are at.  For example, you can jump to Quantcast/Alexa results for the page you're viewing, shorten the URL, or search within the site with Google and ilk.  [Advanced: For shortcuts that use a URL, you can drag and drop links onto them to activate that shortcut.  While dragging a URL, eligible shortcuts will turn green.]<p>The toolbar is customizable via drag and drop. You can drag and drop to re-organize the toolbar and/or add shortcuts and tools.  Use "Quick Find" to find shortcuts for sites you're interested in, or related to the page you're viewing.  For example, there are some neat HN tools (threaded comments, sort by hotness, etc) that I use daily.  To add them, search for "HN" in quick find, or open the toolbar at a HN page and click "find related shortcuts".  You can create folders / subfolders and organize your toolbar to your hearts content.<p>Dashler Toolbar also works well for managing bookmarks.  You can bookmark the current page from the Main Menu, or you can drag and drop any links on the page you're viewing.  Title and tags will automatically be pulled from Delicious, and you can instantly search for anything you've bookmarked by URL, title, or tag.<p>Finally, it works on all modern browsers.  Create an account in seconds (no e-mail required, just username and password), and have a synchronized toolbar across all computers and browsers.<p>Let me know what you think.
======
fragmede
This is way cool and a good MVP. Congrats on getting this far. Some notes
which may or may not already be on your todo:

You need to spend some time/money on design/designer. The top left icon should
always be clickable. Ouch, favicons scaled up that large are terribly
pixelated, especially Wikipedia's. (Also, no reusing icons, but you knew that)

On the toolbar itself, the Google category looks poor (align those boxes!).

The toolbar itself should have an 'add bookmark' button for the current page.

On the page itself home vs. toolbar is too confusing a distinction at this
stage (it seems the toolbar is really the point right now).

The intro page could actually have the toolbar loaded, and point at it, and
describe things you can do with it, starting with the 1-step install procedure
(Drag [this] to your bookmarks bar, and point to where the bookmarks bar is by
default).

The 'windows' that come up, green vs red square top right is a bit confusing,
also should have a button to actually go to the page inside the iframe. (extra
credit if you detect browser OS, and copy that on the fly). Actually, the
window/iframe feature shouldn't be a separate function (eg. why is clicking
'search my bookmarks' different, menu/window-wise, compared to the google
menu.) Closing the toolbar itself should close the iframe in any case.

Also confusing is clicking on the icon on the toolbar vs. floating and having
the menu come up anyway.

I would be less conservative about using screen real-estate if the toolbar has
already been activated. (Eg. instead of clicking reference, then urban
dictionary and _then_ entering the word, clicking reference should allow me
show me a box for urban dictionary). The user has expressed intent to see the
toolbar, take advantage of it.

The analytics section should be redone (have the name somewhere, tooltips
shouldn't all be the same...)

Maybe have a split button for tools? eg: [ Readability | (cfg icon)] Clicking
readability on the left would activate it, so it's 2-clicks to run it instead
of 3. Clicking on the right would bring you to arc90's config page for it.

Maybe the bookmarklet could toggle the toolbar?

The page timer is cool and all, but too noisy on an already busy page?

"Customization: Intuative drag and drop interface." (Spelling)

You need a punchier tagline, something like Dashler: Your web, when you want
it, wherever you want it.

Also, push that the customization of the toolbar, and the shared-ness: "Add
your own toolbar to any page. Includes tools and bookmarks you choose, and is
shared between your computers. What's more, it's free!"

The 'Useful Shortcuts' section (<http://www.dashler.com/toolbar/>) mentions
stock quotes and weather, but neither of those are actually on the linked page
(also those section headers should be links if possible).

Are you planning on running your own bookmarking backend?

~~~
photon_off
Wow! A lot of great stuff here.

Yeah, I need a better design. That's for sure. The scaled icons are going to
have to stay, for now, because I don't have the time or resources to go
through and custom design about 60 different favicons. It's "good enough" to
have them automatically generated. I can't re-use favicons? Are you sure?

How could I fix the Google category? I could add a line break before each
textbox, which would align all the textboxes, but then it would cause more
vertical space to be taken up. Any suggestions?

You can bookmark the current page! It's in the main menu, the first item. Just
click it, or drag and drop it anywhere into your Toolbar.

I will absolutely make dashler.com be all about the toolbar.

I'm working on a new frontpage right now. I think I may ditch the video, and
start off with something you're describing, that gets users more involved and
impressed straight-away. One problem I'm encountering is that there is so much
stuff this toolbar does, I don't know where to start.

The green vs. red square on the windows could use icons. And the browser
detect idea is absoutely awesome! Though, that might actually cause some
confusion...

Clicking an icon on the toolbar "locks" the menu, so that you can highlight
text or drag and drop something into the menu.

In terms of real estate, that's a good suggestion. However, I think if it
takes up too much space it could end up getting in the way. Per your UD
problem, everything in the toolbar can be moved. Go to reference -> urban
dictionary -> and drag the shortcut by it's icon. You can place it outside of
the subfolder if you want.

The bookmarklet did originally toggle the toolbar... however there's one use
case which made me want to change it to reloading the toolbar: You can log in
via the main menu, but then you need to reload the toolbar in order to see
your personal toolbar. There is a menu item in the main menu that says "reload
toolbar" but I figured most people would just press the Dashler button again.
It turns out nobody is using this thing anyway, so I suppose anything I do
won't matter much anyway.

I'll get rid of the page timer.

Thanks for the spelling heads-up.

To sum things up... I'm finding it incredibly difficult to come up with a way
to explain what the toolbar can do to people in a sensible way. It's starting
to bother me quite a bit. How do I explain an abstract concept like "a toolbar
that goes on top of anyway webpage you are viewing, which connects highlighted
content with other webpages. Oh, and the thing that connects highlighted
content with other webpages is called a shortcut. You can add more shortcuts,
and drag and drop them to customize your toolbar. Also, you can access your
customized toolbar from any computer! And by the way, you can bookmark pages
and it automatically fills in tags from delicious so that later on you can
instantly search your bookmarks. Oh yeah, and there are "tools" which can
modify the page you're viewing, like greasemonkey"

Thank you so much for your feedback! I appreciate it. Also, thanks for the
"great work". I'm about ready to give up on this idea. It's just too
complicated. Le sigh.

~~~
fragmede
> I can't re-use favicons? Are you sure?

Sorry, I didn't mean you couldn't reuse favicons - I meant to point out that
the icon for 'social media' is the same as for 'search my bookmarks'.

> How could I fix the Google category? I could add a line break before each
> textbox, which would align all the textboxes, but then it would cause more
> vertical space to be taken up. Any suggestions?

Yeah - take up the vertical space, or take up more horizontal space. Either
way, it's not an unacceptable amount. Alternately, have 1 box (that auto-grows
vertically to handle addresses) and have 4 different submit buttons.

> You can bookmark the current page! It's in the main menu, the first item.
> Just click it, or drag and drop it anywhere into your Toolbar.

That, specifically, is unclear. I know what page I'm already on; don't show me
the title. Have it be an 'add' button instead; at least have the word 'add',
if not 'add bookmark' in that menu. My less specific complaint is that _so_
much really cool functionality is 3 clicks away(1 for the bookmarklet, 1 for
the menu, and 1 for the actual action), when it could be 2-clicks. Especially
if there's only one child item; eg in the UD category, the only choice is UD
define.

> One problem I'm encountering is that there is so much stuff this toolbar
> does, I don't know where to start.

Who is Dashler for? More specifically, do you have any clue what bookmarklet
penetration is? (I have no idea how I'd even go about gauging that. Maybe
arc90 stats or something?) One possible approach would be 'the bookmarklet to
end all bookmarklets' if users are at all familiar with the concept.

> Clicking an icon on the toolbar "locks" the menu, so that you can highlight
> text or drag and drop something into the menu.

Yes, it does and it's kinda cool - but I'd consider the click-activated
locking a droppable feature, just have the menu not close so automatically
instead. Same goes for the 'windows'. I get that it's an iframe and does have
some reason for being differentiated from a menu, but for user's ease of use,
I would not have the iframe be different than any other menu.

> In terms of real estate, that's a good suggestion. However, I think if it
> takes up too much space it could end up getting in the way.

You could go overboard, and implement a 'dashboard' level takeover of the
page. That would be a slightly different product with a slightly different
focus.

> Per your UD problem, everything in the toolbar can be moved. Go to reference
> -> urban dictionary -> and drag the shortcut by it's icon. You can place it
> outside of the subfolder if you want.

Thats cool - but again, the minimum number of clicks is still 3, when it could
be 2.

> The bookmarklet did originally toggle the toolbar... however there's one use
> case which made me want to change it to reloading the toolbar: You can log
> in via the main menu, but then you need to reload the toolbar in order to
> see your personal toolbar. There is a menu item in the main menu that says
> "reload toolbar" but I figured most people would just press the Dashler
> button again. It turns out nobody is using this thing anyway, so I suppose
> anything I do won't matter much anyway.

It seems you could code around that - the login form submission sets a flag.
If the bookmarklet is re-activated and that flag's been checked, reload the
toolbar instead, and clear the flag.

> To sum things up... I'm finding it incredibly difficult to come up with a
> way to explain what the toolbar can do to people in a sensible way. It's
> starting to bother me quite a bit. How do I explain an abstract concept like
> "a toolbar that goes on top of anyway webpage you are viewing, which
> connects highlighted content with other webpages. Oh, and the thing that
> connects highlighted content with other webpages is called a shortcut. You
> can add more shortcuts, and drag and drop them to customize your toolbar.
> Also, you can access your customized toolbar from any computer! And by the
> way, you can bookmark pages and it automatically fills in tags from
> delicious so that later on you can instantly search your bookmarks. Oh yeah,
> and there are "tools" which can modify the page you're viewing, like
> greasemonkey"

Explain to me what a computer can do for me. Explain to me what Excel can do
for an accountant.

Taking another look at it, I'd break the functionality into two groups. Group
one is 'cool tools for the current page'. Readability, any of the analysis,
some other bookmarklet tools (like one to change all references to <a
href="uri.jpg"> into <img src>) - basically anything without an text input
field. Make this the user's 'dashboard'. (Whether or not you chose to take
over all of the user's browsers window is orthogonal to dividing
functionality.)

Start by imagining pushing only the dashboard features. Push arc90's
Readability to the masses: no ads, no distractions. Push the ability to run
analytics. Hell, you could make a list of url shorteners and make an entire
category out of that.

Or, to go another direction, just push the fact that you can share bookmarks
between two computers with a such a simple and easy bookmarklet. No special
browser needed (past not using IE), no need to even restart your computer, or
even your web browser.

Make a user page, which is just a list of all of my bookmarks, newest first,
and productize that. Offer up arc90 et al from a 'default' set of bookmarks in
the (eg) tools category. If you want to go down the social route, see other
people that bookmarked that page, let them comment on it, etc.

The other large piece of type of functionality is to act on selected text.
There's definitely use-case here; Safari, Firefox and Chrome all have 'Search
in Google' as the only option, you've extended that quite far. I don't know
how best to implement it - as part of the existing bookmarklet if there is
text already selected or as a separate bookmarklet; but on activation, grey
out the rest of the browser window, show the selected text in big, and offer
up a slew of buttons to operate on it. If I've selected "Abraham Lincoln" I
want to be able to, in two clicks, to be able to look it up on wikipedia _or_
urban dictionary, or any number of any other sites. (IMDB - what actors have
played him in movies? Dictionary? Thesaurus?)

That alone would be kinda awesome, actually.

All of my other comment's aside, I'd say stop coding for a while and work on
polishing the rest of the site

But I think most importantly - Don't forget to add the Asteroids bookmarklet
to Dashler!

------
joebo
It's novel and somewhat useful. I've added it and will see if I continue to
use it. It's the first time I've seen the the bookmarklet applied like this,
so that's cool.

It could benefit from some UI design - the icons are rough and there is too
much stuff crammed on the menus.

I hope you're tracking which buttons people actually click and use. Use that
analysis to streamline the UI and remove underused items.

~~~
joebo
I also suggest making it possible for me to extend it/customize it. You can
then get a community around it to further develop 'plugins' to your toolbar.
Your advantage is in the 'toolbar bookmarket' platform - esp if you make it
easy to plug in javascript snippets to do other interesting things.

~~~
photon_off
This is definitely something I've been considering, but I first wanted to see
if it's even worth investing more time into it.

It would be pretty easy to allow users to create their own shortcuts and
tools. A shortcut is just a url that contains special keywords, like %url%,
%text%, %domain%, and a corresponding text "Search Google %text%" (%text% gets
converted to a textbox). The hard part, in my opinion, is explaining this, and
providing an interface for the user to make it.

Javascript snippets is a whole other world. I wanted the toolbar to be able to
use any GreaseMonkey script, but there are some things I can't make the
toolbar do, since it's just javascript on a document (like cross domain POST).
There are a large variety of GreaseMonkey scripts that would work on it,
though, and I was thinking about allowing them to be easily integrated into
the toolbar.

It was fun hacking together a few HN tools, like "sort by hotness" which I use
_all the time_ now. It looks at the stories of the frontpage and sorts them by
how much activity (points + comments) they've received per unit time. To find
it, search "HN" in Quick Find. So, I agree, there's potential for opening it
up as a platform much like GreaseMonkey.

~~~
joebo
The HN tools are neat. I would use some of them. That's similar what I had in
mind. I shouldn't have to type HN though - it should have showed up
automatically based on the page I am on. It doesn't find tools for
news.ycomb... but you probably already know that.

I played around with Greasemonkey scripts a few years back but then abandoned
them. I just looked into it again and spent 4 minutes trying to figure out how
to use them on Chrome and then abandoned the search. I guess it supports it
but it failed the 2 minute test for me. I even went to userscripts.org and
then got even more lost. In my opinion, if you make that experience easier
with your tool and show the top 5 scripts for the current URL then that would
be a huge win. You could do top 5 based on how often they are clicked on.

~~~
photon_off
In "Quick Find" there's a button that says "Find shortcuts related to
news.ycombinator.com". When I click it, it does show HN tools. You're right
though, there should be some sort of indication that there are tools available
for the page you're viewing. Even better would be "most common tools/shortcuts
used on this page" ... that might make you want to check the toolbar at each
interesting page you view.

------
todayiamme
One of the things that really stood out to me was the site design and how
cluttered everything is. I've noticed something about people; they can't
assimilate information when it reaches a certain density and I think that's
the case with your site.

At first glance, I was taken aback by the sheer amount of info you've stuffed
into the landing page. The bottom panel really should be a learn more drop
down. As it takes away the main message of what you're trying to get across;
simplicity.

Moreover, the theme feels a bit depressing to me, but that's just a matter of
tweaking the color.

I have a feeling that all of this might have something to do with dashler
being a bootstrapped startup. Is there anything I can do to help?

[ego edit: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1783930> :) ]

~~~
photon_off
The advice in your edit is exactly the feedback I'm looking for. It's
admittedly difficult for me to come up with an easy to digest pitch for the
toolbar. Marketing is just not my thing, at least not when the format is HTML.
What you've just written is better than anything I could come up with, and I'm
grateful for it.

In short, yes, there is a lot you could do to help. But there's not a lot I
can offer beyond a share in whatever is to become of Dashler. If you believe
that I have a good product here and are interested to work on it with me,
shoot me an e-mail. The address is in my profile.

In the meantime... any chance you could throw out some more freebies? :)

~~~
todayiamme
Wow.

Thank you. I had no clue that you would find that useful. I just wrote the
fist thing that came into my head.

Of course, I like helping people out. :)

Oh and check your inbox. :)

~~~
photon_off
I've been thoroughly absorbed by this project, and have lost the ability to
see it from a fresh perspective. Any ideas anybody has about how to explain
this thing, or what their immediate impressions were, are extraordinarily
helpful.

Oh, I replied :)

------
Terretta
Multiple "About" pages are confusing:

"Dashler is a bookmarklet. When clicked, it opens up a toolbar on top of the
webpage you viewing."

"Dashler builds things that make browsing the web faster, easier, and more
productive."

"Dashler is a bootstrapped start-up founded by Sam Mati."

"Dashler is not a search engine, encyclopedia, dictionary, social network, URL
shortener, video website, news aggregator, website analytics provider,
blogging service, stock analysis tool, e-mail provider, etc."

"Dashler is content to let others innovate in these areas."

"Dashler is a bookmark. There's no download."

Also, the hovering toolbar gets in the way of sites using top nav. I'd
recommend trying it more like the Digg bar or Reddit bar, glued to the top of
the window, and styled to match the detected browser's default chrome.

------
SHOwnsYou
As I mentioned in another thread, the actual toolbar seems kind of obtrusive.

But you may want to consider reworking the splash page (or the others too, but
definitely the splash page).

<http://yobiz.com> has a nice splash page. Headline, subhead, video on the
left, benefits on the right, all above the fold.

<http://icontact.com> has a smart layout. The first thing you see is social
proof in the form of testimonials + actual, non professional pictures and real
benefits for real people on each slide.

~~~
photon_off
Thanks for the feedback. What could be done, in your opinion, to make it less
obtrusive?

~~~
SHOwnsYou
Maybe it's not too obtrusive. I can't sit around at work and watch full videos
(especially one with lots of random stops). So I tried to make some guesses
about the toolbar.

One thing I would certainly do is get some audio in the video and remove the
pauses.

~~~
drake2010
How about a gallery of screenshots with captions at the bottom?

------
city41
Just a minor point, you really should add a voice over to the video. Even if
you don't like your own voice, it's way better than nothing. I spent the first
30 seconds trying to figure out what was wrong with my sound.

~~~
photon_off
You're absolutely right, it's something I need to fix, and I'm definitely
losing a lot of potential engagement and clarity by not having a voice over.

I used YouTube annotations, since I have no experience at editing videos. With
YouTube annotations, the sound would pause as well... so I opted to just have
no sound at all. It sucks, I know.

~~~
city41
I'm new to making promotional videos too. If you have a Mac, give iMovie a
shot, it's _fantastic_. For Windows, I've had good success with CamStudio for
doing screencasts with voice. Even better CamStudio is open source and free.

The major difference is iMovie is a nice movie editing platform, where
CamStudio is just about recording, so if you only have CamStudio, you have to
get it all correct in one take.

~~~
photon_off
I used Camtasia to do the screen recording, and I think it worked great. The
zoom and pan features are really cool. If you watch the video without the
annotations, it's a pretty neat demo. I was fearful it would be too confusing
without explaining what was going on though, so I added those annotations.

I'll definitely be making a better version of the video. One very difficult
part of doing the take was scripting it. There are quite a few awesome
features of the toolbar that I wanted to show off, but jumping right into them
could be confusing.

~~~
city41
It's amazing how seemingly little things can be so difficult. I'm currently
working on a landing page for a product idea I have. The product itself is
actually really simple and trivial to get if you see it in the flesh, but
explaining in the confines of a landing page has proven extremely difficult.

~~~
photon_off
Like they say: "The little things... there's nothing bigger."

It's really difficult deciding on things when every single word matters. I
spend a lot of time and energy either being stuck in analysis paralysis, or
trying to avoid it.

------
rezrovs
A few things:

1) no download, no registration - but I still have to enter a username and
password. So I don't understand why you say 'no registration' when I still
have to register a username

2) there is no compelling reason for me to install this - it took a while to
find this which I guess is the main reason I would install it: 'Synchronized:
Access Dashler from any computer and browser.'

3) When I clicked on 'Home' I expected to go to
<http://www.dashler.com/toolbar/> \- I did not realise that the toolbar was
not the main thing about Dashler. Then it also took me a while to work out how
to get back to the toolbar page again.

4) I agree with a previous poster that I would have loved to see screenshots
as I can't view videos at work

Lastly - looks like fun and an interesting idea, but it's not completely clear
to me why I should want it. Perhaps you need to make that more clear on the
front page.

~~~
photon_off
You don't have to enter a username and password, it's optional. If you don't
provide an account, it will create a temporary Guest account, and use a
cookie. It's entirely an optional process to type in a username and password.
If you want to use your Toolbar across multiple browsers, or if you don't want
your toolbar to reset if your cookie is destroyed, then you need to make an
account.

You can try the toolbar without installing it by clicking "try it out".

I've found it very difficult to describe what the toolbar does without showing
it. Perhaps you are right, I may need screenshots or a slideshow instead of a
video.

You're absolutely right, the navigation is odd. The Toolbar might just become
all of Dashler. I wanted to offer a start page that allowed you to search
multiple sites, as well as instantly search anything you've bookmarked with
Dashler. I might scrap it and make the whole focus the toolbar.

The compelling reason to use it is that it ties together the page you are
viewing with a variety of shortcuts and tools. I frequently use it to
reference a URL I'm viewing against, for example, Reddit. There's a shortcut
called "is this on reddit?" which shows me reddit submissions for the URL I'm
viewing. There's a shortcut to find which pages link to the page I'm viewing.
A shortcut to find conversations across all social media sites for the URL I'm
viewing (via BackType). I can search within the site with Google, or get
traffic ratings from Quantcast, or see how it's been tagged on Delicious.

On top of that, it's an easy way to bookmark things, and manage your
bookmarklets.

------
smokeyj
I had to spend a good deal of energy trying to figure out a) what it is your
product actually does, and b) why I'd want to use it over my default built in
google search box. Maybe you should try having a landing page with the example
already launched and a video with sound nearby to make it quicker for users to
'get it'.

~~~
photon_off
This is a huge issue that I've been trying to overcome. I've found it
extremely difficult to explain what the toolbar does, and usually resort to
just showing a demonstration of it. Once people see me use it in person, then
they love it. If they don't see me use it in person, then they are generally
very confused.

Does anybody have any ideas on how to explain what this toolbar does in a
concise, easy to digest manner?

~~~
todayiamme
How about this?

Dashler is an attempt to re-imagine the toolbar minus all of the frustrations.

[Screen shot of dashler]

 _Be more productive:_ Using dashler is like putting a swiss knife in your
pocket. You just whip it out when you need it. Get your job done quickly and
easily inside of it. Smile and whip it back in. All without leaving the page
and other messy stuff.

[Screen shot of search inside dashler]

and so on...

(I used this analogy because I'm using it with my bookmarks bar)

------
photon_off
Splash page: <http://www.dashler.com/toolbar/>

How to use it: <http://www.dashler.com/toolbar/howto.php>

Browse shortcuts, drag and drop them into toolbar:
<http://www.dashler.com/toolbar/browse/>

~~~
Terretta
You may want to check your use of apostrophes.

For example, "to let" means "to allow": "The product lets you do stuff."

The word "let's" means "let us": "Let's install this today!"

To build trust, grammar and spelling should be impeccable.

~~~
photon_off
Thanks for pointing out the spelling mistake. It was a spelling mistake.

------
photon_off
I feel like I am doing something wrong here. Of the 150+ people that have so
far opened the toolbar, only _five_ people have modified it in any way. Just
five people have reordered the icons, added something, or deleted something.
Why is this? Is it really _that_ bad? Is nobody curious enough to play with
it?

~~~
sage
It wasn't obvious to me how to delete icons. A permanent "trash" icon rather
than a context sensitive "trash" icon might help. Also, you could add a note
to the Dashler menu letting users know they can drag icons to reorder them.

Annotated screenshots might be more useful than a video. I think most HN users
want to jump right in and use a tool rather than watch a video. Screenshots
can be absorbed more quickly.

By the way, I like the pulsating "Get Dashler" button.

------
nailer
'Dashler Toolbar is a bookmarklet that opens up a toolbar of shortcuts to
various webpages, and allows for super easy bookmarking. '

I have a very limited attention span. You need a better opener than that -
'shortcuts to various webpages' is vague and doesn't give me anything beyond
my existing browser bookmarks.

~~~
photon_off
You're absolutely right. The most difficult thing I'm dealing with is
explaining this thing. I'd be grateful if you could give it a test drive, or
watch the video, and let me know of a better way to explain it.

