
How to Ace a Phone Screen - jameshsi
https://engineering.zenefits.com/2015/09/how-to-ace-a-phone-screen/
======
JoelSutherland
This is not really the attitude a company should have when they manage
benefits:

 _On the flip side, with so many people contributing code mistakes are bound
to happen. That’s normal – after all we’re all just people, and people make
mistakes. One thing that I’ve found particularly admirable about our team here
is that people own up right away, and strive to fix things as fast as
possible. No one wants to ship buggy code, but it happens. The nice thing
about working with so many smart and friendly devs though is that you can
trust that someone will be there to catch you if you fall and help you fix
things._

We've caught and reported 4-5 bugs in production to Zenefits on really basic
features. Three of our employees have now been asked to send a screenshot of
the dashboard with the JS console open...

~~~
Someone1234
> This is not really the attitude a company should have when they manage
> benefits

Why exactly? They are talking at the individual employee level, not company
wide. The statement above is: "[As an individual developer] it is ok to make
mistakes, just own up to them and take responsibility."

They didn't touch on test coverage, integration Vs. unit testing, code
reviews, UI automated testing, code quality inspections (both automated and
manual), regression testing, external audits, or a whole bunch of other things
a company can do to improve the quality of their software over the medium to
long term. These exist to help mitigate an individual's errors.

If we take what you said above at face value, you're essentially saying: "It
is unacceptable for an individual employee at a company who manages benefits
to make mistakes ever period." Which when re-phased like that is patently
absurd.

Your anecdotes above may be legitimate reasons to gripe about the quality of
Zenefits' software. But these are issues with organisational quality, not
individual quality. Individuals can and will make mistakes at any endeavour no
matter how mission or life critical, the way organisations detect and resolve
these mistakes is what is key to quality, not pretending that people should be
mistake free, that's a pipe dream.

~~~
eykanal
The problem isn't with the first part ("it's OK to make mistakes"), it's with
the second ("just own up"). When a mistake is made, it's because some part of
the benefit coding process failed. I work in an insurance company where 100%
of benefits coding changes are put through QC, and then another 25% are put
through a _second_ level of QC. The costs of screwing this up are pretty high,
and will make people pretty mad. You need to have a process where the vast
majority of mistakes are caught before they get out the door.

I really can't speak for the company—it's just a single sentence in a blog
post on an otherwise unrelated topic—but I imagine that's what the OP was
thinking about.

~~~
DanBC
> I work in an insurance company where 100% of benefits coding changes are put
> through QC, and then another 25% are put through a second level of QC.

For electronic engineering this is a known fault mode of inspection.

When the first line inspectors are busy they'll shovel stuff theough with less
inspection because there's someone else to do so checking. But now that other
person is busy, and they'll shovel stuff through because if the first line of
inspectors are doing their job properly it should be okay.

So it's interesting to see this not fail in an indistry tha is data driven and
cash sensitive.

It'd be interesting to know what the difference is.

~~~
eru
Give the second line guys a bonus for every error caught, and make the first
line guys pay?

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Yhippa
This is very much unlike the phone screens I've been through. Most of mine
involve the recruiter trying to see if I can back up the words I said on my
resume to see if I am worthy for a technical interview.

This article did little to tell me how to ace it other than a little snippet
of "I did a cool project to stand out". Which, admittedly, is cool, but I
don't feel like it gave many tips on how to "ace" the phone screen. Also the
end was basically an ad for Zenefits (well done).

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fortpoint
Speaking as a hiring manager, showing me a cool hack is nice but acing a phone
screen requires:

* you know something about my company and why you want to work here (visit our corp. site, interrogate the recruiter, read up on our press and know something about our space)

* you know what we're looking for and understand that we're talking to you because there's some intersection between your experience and our search criteria.

* for that intersection in the venn diagram of our candidate requirements and your resume, brush up a little so that you can speak to how you used technology X. If it was 2 years ago or less know it well... if we're talking 10 years ago being more general is fine.

* be able to describe how you got to where you are in your career and where you want to go.

* know who you're talking to in the phone screen and LISTEN to what they're asking you. i can't count how many folks i ask to describe how they built a particular solution go on to just ramble on about feature descriptions and process without ever getting to how something was built.

~~~
brogrammer90
Anybody with actual experience and skills doesn't give a rats ass about your
company's mission. And are you seriously asking devs about where they want to
be in 5 years? I hope you're not any older than 30.

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mikestew
I don't think "make a hummingbird with CSS" is really a universal way to ace a
phone screen. A more appropriate article title might be "how _I_ aced a phone
screen at _zenfits.com_ ".

~~~
myth_buster
I think the takeaway is that it's a competitive jungle out there and some
companies may appreciate your effort to standout from the rest.

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x0x0
Just make sure not to publicly discuss your deal/doubts about the company or
the ceo will tantrum and revoke it. And then, in a bold stand for integrity,
edit his answer to remove the offer revokation.

[https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-way-to-start-my-
caree...](https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-way-to-start-my-career-Uber-
or-Zenefits?s=1)

[http://www.businessinsider.com/zenefits-ceo-rescinds-job-
off...](http://www.businessinsider.com/zenefits-ceo-rescinds-job-offer-on-
quora-2015-5)

~~~
untog
While I agree that the CEO was an idiot there, I also don't have a huge amount
of respect for anyone who judges where they work by whether it is a "buzzword
like Uber".

~~~
cyan_atrus
it's a kid fresh out of college, though -- how is he supposed to know any
better? working for a name brand makes the decision a safer decision; i'd put
the onus on those advising him to point out why that's not the best metric for
making this decision.

~~~
irl_zebra
When one is at the point where they can kind of pick and choose where they
want to go because they have an awesome resume and a great body of work, then
let them choose how they wish. If I were going to my first or second job, I
would go with Google or Facebook or Uber over a smaller/lesser known company
as they would be great signaling mechanisms for my resume for future
opportunities.

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ohitsdom
I like the approach of a small, fun task as "extra credit". But how do you
smoothly bring that up in the interview? I guess if you're being asked about
CSS technical details, you can mention you built this last night and ask if
they'd like to see it. But I'm pretty sure due to nerves, I would make that
really awkward. Like I'd answer the phone and shout "LOOK AT WHAT I MADE!"

~~~
kmdev
I imagine you'd:

A. Include it with your resume before hand

B. Bring it up when asked about previous experience tangential to it

C. Bring it up when asked about your outside work activities or what sort of
continuing professional development you've been doing lately

D. Mention it when asked about the "coolest/most fun" thing you've hacked on
lately

E. Whip it out when asked the usual "what do you think we do here and what can
you bring to the table"

Or, when you start asking your questions about the company/culture/ect.
(DEFINITELY ask those types of questions), weave it in with a question about
what kind of side-project or 20% type program they offer/support.

You could also throw it up on a design site or your blog and drop it in
whichever social media channel they may have.

Cultivating a curious attitude (or sincerely making an effort to fake it) will
help calm your nerves a bit as well.

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Xyik
Click-bait ... doesn't tell us at all about Zenefit's hiring process at the
present at all, or how to 'ace' them.

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minimaxir
I'm not fond of the implication that you can get an interview/job from
pandering to Zenefits by working on a project that _promotes their brand._

~~~
ohitsdom
I viewed his little creation as "extra credit". It shows he knows Sass/CSS and
makes him standout from other "boring" interviewees that may have possessed
similar skillsets.

Why not make it about their brand? It shows his desire that he wants to work
there, and it's also clear he just made this. It isn't some cool thing he did
awhile ago and is showing many different companies in interviews. He wants to
work there, and that initiative shown will go a long way (and was successful,
in this case).

Worst-case scenario is that he doesn't get the job but spent the night
learning more about pseudo elements and how the interact with other elements.
That's a win-win.

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crucini
Albert's hack is definitely impressive, and would make him stand out. I'm
surprised at some nay-sayers here. Suggesting he use SVG? Nothing impressive
about that.

I phone screen a lot, and would be impressed by Albert. However, if you are
strong on resume, knowledge, and interviewing, you don't need any special
tricks. I think such tricks are important if your resume does not support the
position you're seeking: either a mediocre school, no degree, long
unemployment, or switching industries.

As for acing a phone screen - no silver bullets here, but it pays to know
something about the company and the screener. I know we're just company #923
to you, but don't show that.

------
Animats
Trying to draw by writing HTML text is like pounding a screw. It's the wrong
tool for the job. If you want to draw Zenefit's hummingbird, use an SVG draw
program. Inkscape is free and can do that job.

As a way to get past HR idiots, it may be useful.

------
iamleppert
Awesome bird dude! You're hired!

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logfromblammo
The CSS hummingbird _is_ cool. It shows off the awesome ability of the
software professional to take a half dozen stupid, illogical constraints and
somehow end up with something that works anyway. The problem is that companies
would not need to select for this quality if they could avoid imposing stupid,
illogical constraints in the first place.

So the obvious followup question I would ask first would have been, "Why did
you choose to do this with CSS rather than with a language designed for vector
graphics, like SVG?"

Shall we also hire all the other people who can make their cats bark and their
dogs meow?

~~~
baddox
I don't think making cats bark would be very relevant to an Internet
technology company, but it would probably be a good sign in a relevant
industry (say, a company that trains animals).

That's the point. This person did a neat little project that uses skills which
are directly relevant to the job being applied for. The project probably isn't
actually useful on its own, but it shows interest and ability.

------
nmridul
And I thought this was about smart phone display ...

------
Tloewald
I think the answer is "appear to be the person they want to hire" with the
extra degree of difficulty being you don't know the person they want to hire.
On the other hand, who wants to be hired under false pretenses? Not I.

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codeonfire
Trying to flatter an employer by doing a lot of pointless work is dumb and
says something negative about the employers who respond. The "typical" way to
ace a phone screen is: 1. be young and just out of college 2. pay more money
to the person who wrote cracking the code interview and memorize the problems
3. Scan glassdoor and other sites for interview questions that the
interviewers will, as predicted, lazily reuse. The real way to ace a phone
screen is not to be involved in one.

~~~
kmdev
Obviously, this isn't something to do for every place you apply to. However,
for those at the top of your list, as is mentioned in the piece, riffing their
design or code when you're practicing or wanting to expand your skillset
anyway is a great idea. Two birds, one stone and all that.

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strong_code
I had the opportunity to speak with Albert on a developer panel and he told
this story (we were speaking to software developers that had just begun their
job search). He's a very nice guy and I think this is great, general advice
for people just beginning to step into the world of software development and
don't quite yet have a resume that can "wow" people. I'm glad to see Zenefits
recognized that.

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robalfonso
Anyone else getting spammed by these guys? I got like 3-4 emails the other day
from them, really annoying too, saying the'd looked into what we were doing
for our HR etc and thought they could help, except for they were sending
emails to an employee who hadn't been with us for a year (email forwarded to
me), so not really looking at what we do and how we do it, just disingenuous
marketing drivel.

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coleifer
Funnily enough I used to work with Albert Treat at the "biotech startup" in
South San Francisco. He's an incredibly talented individual, very driven, and
contributed massively to the work done at that company.

Great advice, Albert! I'm glad you like your new job, too :)

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wf
Interesting, I didn't know Zenefits did phone screens, they sent me a ~3 hour
coding challenge to do over... I can't recall the services name atm.

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kzhahou
TLDR: Zenefits is an awesome company to work for and is growing like crazy.
Also, do something to stand out during the phone screen.

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adnam
Ah, the innocence of youth.

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mikepalmer
It's not Safari / mobile Safari compatible! -10 points!

It is supposed to be a PHONE screen after all. ;-)

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namuol
Ah yes, nothing says "I'm a team player" quite like a pile of opaque hacks
abusing the wrong technology...

