

Ask HN: Manager making me jump through hoops, is it worth it? - Chirag

I am working in good "fortune 500" company. I have had this job for past 1.5 years. Now its time for long-over-due hike and promotion, but instead, giving the deserved hike,  my manager dangling a new carrot in front of me each time I start this discussion. This is getting stupid. I mean, I like the company and possibly if I play the game I may get the hike, but somewhere I am not comfortable doing all this.<p><i>I want to know your views on this are, is it worth it or should I just move.</i>
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btilly
I would recommend reading [http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-
principle-o...](http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-
the-office-according-to-the-office/) and then evaluating your goals and the
people you are dealing with very carefully.

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pasbesoin
The following can be summed up as: Move up, or move out. But keep the current
market in mind and have a firm landing established before taking the leap.

This is based upon years of personal observation. On the other hand, I'm not
the most successful person in this environment. I've done very good things,
technically, and have done very well interacting with people on a peer and ad
hoc level, at all levels of various organizations. But I've never fit in too
well, politically. I don't match the personality type that pre-dominates in
corporate management.

0) (Cautiously) try to determine where this behavior is originating. Is it
initiated by your immediate management, or is it coming from higher up? Is
there a pay freeze or budget constraint that your immediate management can do
nothing about? Are they going to bat for their reports, or just rolling over,
either not requesting the increase/funding or not pushing back when first told
"no".

(I had one manager who seemed to find some combination of necessity and pride
in keeping his department budget low. He repeatedly screwed over his reports
to make himself look better (in his eyes; maybe also in his management's eyes,
depending on how lame they were -- underpaying and abuse are not good long
term strategies). He probably could have obtained a budget increase (or
maintained what he previously had) to avoid some of these situations, but he
didn't try.

Later, at the same company, I had a different set of managers who produced
double digit increases for me at a time when that "simply wasn't happening".
They went to bat for me (after I pulled some proverbial rabbits out of hats).
When there subsequently was a pay freeze, they found a way -- on their own
initiative -- to pay for a conference trip I was already intending to pay for
personally.)

1) Whether it's starting a job hunt, continuing your education, or something
else, take some action that appeals to you and places you, in your own mind,
on an equal footing with your manager/management. Don't allow yourself to feel
caught indefinitely in their regimen.

2) Don't let this situation continue indefinitely. Either they take action to
end it, or you do. Their action: Promote you and treat you like an adult, or
terminate you. Your action: Grow within the position, or leave.

Think about it in terms of a learning experience. And from their perspective,
what are they learning if/as you allow it to go on indefinitely? That they can
jerk you around. Is that really what you want them to learn?

Further, if they "learn" this about you, your future with them is likely
significantly diminished. Their eventual decision, if you leave the decision
to them, is more likely to be to leave you parked where you are (or in very
"incremental" growth), or to terminate.

(By the way, the means by which I moved from the first set of management to
the second was by taking advantage of the open door policy of a new senior
manager, after determining it to be genuine, and telling him without threat
but plainly what had been going on and that I'd had enough. I already had the
other management team interested in me; the senior manager simply removed the
red tape preventing the move. This actually made life easier for him; he could
simply let me move, rather than having to formally address my grievance.
Though he did correct the situations of a couple of other department members
while they remained in their positions. And having three or four members of
the same department approach him with similar grievances very likely made a
strong impression and influenced the outcome. The "quiet" people finally spoke
up.

He deserves credit; it never would have happened, or happened so effectively,
without that open door policy. Credit also to the one non-quiet department
member who acted first in approaching him and thereby showed us the way.)

The job situation (in the U.S., I'll assume) is terrible. So I wouldn't just
jump ship without having a firm landing established, and I would be very
cautious about communicating this perspective directly (or
passive/aggressively) to them. Short term, you may have to take it. But work
and plan to establish eventual exits from it, one way or another. You'll
likely feel significantly better. Regain some measure of control.

I hate to sound like I'm promoting an expressively aggressive attitude as the
means to success. I've seen too much of it, in excess. But passive doesn't
work well, in the corporations I've seen. I've watched time and again as
moderately competent (sometimes perhaps marginally) but self-promoting people
have passed by truly competent but "quiet" people. Or perhaps it's that the
former have focused on the competency that matters more with regard to career
advancement: Politics (and all that goes into it, which is a considerable
effort including identifying what attitudes and results matter to whom of
importance and focusing primarily on producing these, or the illusion of
same).

I don't mean to sound too judgmental in this: It's what the system appears to
require. Be sure in evaluating your own situation to consider this
perspective.

------
smg
move

~~~
Chirag
That makes more sense. Thanks.

