
4chan has been blocked in NZ “for security reasons” - EE84M3i
https://www.reddit.com/r/4chan/comments/b1aqz4/pol_member_commits_mass_shooting_in_new_zealand/
======
ripdog
Kiwi here. This block was not initiated by the government, as far as I can
tell. I believe certain ISPs blocked the sites preemptively, as the block is
not in place on my connection.

Thankfully, NZ has no mandatory internet filtering, though the department of
internal affairs offers a child porn blocklist which some ISPs apply.

~~~
lostlogin
> the block is not in place on my connection.

Spark (NZ ISP) gets there ok for me.

Edit: on further testing, some things are broken. 4Chan works fine, which is
puzzling.

~~~
r721
Spark managing director Simon Moutter:

>Our Spark security experts are working hard to close off the websites
attempting to distribute the hateful stuff originating from the perpetrators
of the massacre in Christchurch. We hope it causes minimal inconvenience to
legitimate internet use by our customers.

[https://twitter.com/simonmoutter/status/1106418640167952385](https://twitter.com/simonmoutter/status/1106418640167952385)

~~~
pbhjpbhj
"working hard to close off ..."

Suggests ongoing and continuous effort, but that thread suggests it's a simple
DNS blackhole.

I imagine they added the domain(s) to their blacklist and flushed the cache
(or removed specific entries). And this doesn't prevent access.

Sounds like using a tragedy for marketing. Maybe I'm being too cynical?

~~~
lostlogin
You can’t be too cynical. If you aren’t already aware, Spark was part of
Telecom before the NZ government broke it up. The then CEO controversially
described using confusion as a marketing strategy.

[https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&...](https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10380894)

------
yingw787
First, my condolences to all the affected. Nobody should experience a
shooting, least of all a mass shooting in a place of worship against innocent
people, including children, in a coordinated attack by foreign organizations.
I hope the NZ government will grind the organizations responsible for this
attack to dust, with help from their friends and allies and our taxpayer
dollars.

Second, it's very important to not be taken advantage of. Whether it's funeral
homes raising the prices of coffins, or governments taking away civil
liberties, people have a habit of accepting bad outcomes because they (very
understandably) can't think straight. Oftentimes, those decisions are very
difficult to reverse when things calm down and the scales fall from your eyes.
An alert, vigilant citizenry is the keystone for a democratic society.

If I was the NZ government, I'd be _very_ interested in screening foreign
travel into NZ and banning firearms on arrivals. I'd also be _very_ interested
in what the AUS government will be doing about domestic terrorism and
spillover, and would scream for greater intelligence sharing. I'm highly
skeptical that banning a website will even partially address this issue; I'd
rather honeypot it and trace any terror cells for physical locations. And I
would increase funding for domestic security, and demand machine-readable
receipts for said funding available to anybody with the proper security
clearance.

There's no unicorn technical solution to the problem of terror and fear.
Technical solutions must be weaved into an overall change in social paradigms
and political strategy to address the task at hand. I do think that's our
place in this world.

------
robocat
Context:

No similar event has occurred in New Zealand before.

Guns are not readily available in New Zealand. You can get one suitable for
sport, but it is a serious process to get your license first. I presume these
guns must have been illegally imported from somewhere.

I think New Zealanders are mostly reasonably liberal, even laid-back, although
we do have our share of "rednecks" too.

Size, geography, and population of NZ is somewhat similar to Oregon.

Generally our government is reasonably well run and the less fortunate get
some care: I suspect because the families and friends of our politicians have
varied backgrounds (it is difficult for politicians to live in an elite
bubble).

Generally we don't like being told what to do by our government, or anyone
from overseas.

Personal opinion:

I am from Christchurch, and I think censorship is dangerous, but there needs
to be some way to prevent the _easy_ access to forums and videos of violence,
hatred, and abuse.

I don't want my friends, or their family watching this mentally damaging
video. I know friends and the children of friends that have watched the
livestreamed video, because it is easily available.

This block is unprecedented here, and has little legal or technical
infrastructure in place to enforce it.

NZ will sort our shit out about this, hopefully without too much interference
from the societies that caused this atrocity in the first place.

~~~
insickness
> there needs to be some way to prevent the easy access to forums and videos
> of violence, hated, and abuse.

Why? There is no evidence viewing it leads to violence while there is plenty
of evidence of the dangers of censorship. I feel like we are back in the 80s
with the PMRC clutching their pearls, talking about how heavy metal music is
causing children to worship the devil.

------
ripdog
Link is inaccurate. 4chan and 8chan are not blocked on my NZ home connection.
I can only presume this is a preemptive action by certain ISPs.

There is no mandatory internet filter in NZ.

~~~
philip1209
Do you use custom DNS? It's possible that they're just modifying the DNS
servers of ISPS.

~~~
ripdog
Now that you mention it, I do use unbound on my router. I should check to see
if you're right, though I can't right now.

There is no mandatory block in place, that much I am sure. Such a thing could
not be put in place without me hearing about it, I'm sure about that.

------
snvzz
That anybody'd even think to block a website on such grounds is worrying.

That it actually happened is alarming.

~~~
seem_2211
Shutting down a largely toxic website that fuels the flames of extremism is an
order of magnitude less alarming than 50+ people losing their lives.

I don't really see much value lost in taking 4chan down, just like it's not a
big deal if Stormfront or an Isis affiliated site was blocked.

Freedom of speech doesn't mean you get to do whatever you want, with no threat
of consequences.

~~~
StanislavPetrov
>Freedom of speech doesn't mean you get to do whatever you want, with no
threat of consequences.

No, it means the government cannot prevent you from saying whatever you want.
Its frightening how widespread opposition to free speech has become
(especially among the younger generation who has been conditioned to accept
authoritarianism).

~~~
odessacubbage
we deprive children of their liberties for 12+ years and put them in a box
where they are taught explicitly and implicitly that all that matters is
appealing to authority, so why is it any surprise to see them so drawn towards
authoritarianism? for that matter, why would they care about freedom of speech
at all when they never get to use it? it might as well be as foreign to them
as the polar bear.

~~~
StanislavPetrov
Its no surprise at all - I agree completely. Its extremely ominous all the
same.

------
growlist
Controversial opinion incoming: perhaps the audience for sites like
4chan/8chan reflects a curiosity created to some extent by the ever narrowing
range of permitted news topics allowed by the MSM.

~~~
RandomGuyDTB
A range which has been narrowing recently, meanwhile the chans have been
popular for decades now. I agree with you in part; 4 & 8 have been gaining
popularity because people just don't trust the news, but it's not because of
fake news that people are joining. It's because the news doesn't agree with
them.

------
LegendaryPatMan
But not 8chan? Where he was a user?

~~~
ganeshkrishnan
You are right, Users like these were booted out of 4chan and formed 8chan.
4chan got it because it's more popular

~~~
mrguyorama
Have you never been to the /pol/ board? 4chan is very much still a hate filled
place that encourages harmful actions.

~~~
jack1243star
Have you never been to a board other than /pol/? There's plenty of other
harmless exchanges going on. 4chan is not primarily a political site.

~~~
seem_2211
Sure, shut down /pol/ and /b/ and you solve most of the 4chan problem for the
moment.

~~~
cwkoss
These people tend to be extremely online, I am skeptical blocking a couple
websites will change their overall behavior or ideologies. I suspect they'd
just make a different website.

------
Giorgi
Reddit itself is being censored right now banning users left and right due to
shooting video

~~~
danso
Just noticed r/watchpeopledie was banned about an hour ago:
[https://reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/b1hjtn/rwatchpe...](https://reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/b1hjtn/rwatchpeopledie_has_been_banned_please_discuss/)

Which makes sense, if Reddit wants to ban the Christchurch video. Banning just
that video and not the many others posted and discussed daily would be a
difficult needle to thread as a coherent policy.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
This event doesn't seem to change the moral justification, or otherwise, for
r/watchpeopledie? So why ban the sub now, rather than impose heavy moderation
(or indeed do nothing?)?

~~~
danso
I'm arguing that there isn't a particular moral justification; it's driven by
public relations. And one can hardly claim that Reddit was caught unawares by
the potential for controversy -- r/watchpeopledie was quarantined half a year
ago [https://www.newsweek.com/reddit-quarantine-subs-toxic-
contro...](https://www.newsweek.com/reddit-quarantine-subs-toxic-
controversial-moderators-1144663)

------
r721
>Confirmed. NZ ISPs are blocking access to Liveleak, 4chan, 8ch, a certain
farm, Mixtape, Mega, and many other sites that are not complying immediately
with the takedown orders.

>Even @Bitchute is removing the video mirrors.

[https://twitter.com/eldarmark/status/1106463828768747520](https://twitter.com/eldarmark/status/1106463828768747520)

>Earlier today Bush said he was aware that footage of the shooting had
appeared on social media and police were doing everything they could to get it
removed.

>"It shouldn't be in the public domain."

>Facebook Australia-New Zealand policy director Mia Garlick said videos which
appeared to show the Christchurch shootings had been taken down.

>"New Zealand Police alerted us to a video on Facebook shortly after the
livestream commenced and we quickly removed both the shooter's Facebook and
Instagram accounts and the video."

>Spark managing director Simon Moutter said the company was working to close
off websites attempting to distribute the footage.

>"Our Spark security experts are working hard to close off the websites
attempting to distribute the hateful stuff originating from the perpetrators
of the massacre in Christchurch. We hope it causes minimal inconvenience to
legitimate internet use by our customers."

>Vodafone NZ spokesman Richard Llewellyn said: "Industry players are working
at a technical level now to block some of the hate sites involved in this
content."

>Spark spokesman Andrew Pirie said technical staff had identified three
primary sites where footage had been posted but there were a number of
"copycat" sites popping up.

>The internet providers had joined forces to block access to these sites, he
said.

[https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&object...](https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12213076)

~~~
snvzz
They're using the chance to get every site they can blocked. It's a new take
on the good old "think of the children" to erase anything they'd like to for
everybody, children or not.

------
b1r6
Why do these people think censorship works? The more you don't want me to see
it, the harder I will try to see it. I think this is pretty universal human
nature. Instead let's use this as a learning opportunity.

~~~
deogeo
> The more you don't want me to see it, the harder I will try to see it.

That comes into play only after you know there's something to see.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
So we should suppress the news?

------
jdck1326
My ISP banned 4channel.org/lit ... a place for discussing literature and
philosophy. Bit dumb.

~~~
fbgdsf
the left wing plan to destroy the world with their hypocrisy

------
g51
4chan currently read only for me in NZ. cannot post to any board, only view.
Appears sys.4chan.org is not resolvable.

------
g51
I cannot post to 4chan from NZ at this time. Appears sys.4chan.org is
currently not resolvable.

------
doomsday437
Isn't working for me either however using a vpn lets me on

------
Dubzac58
this is all bullshit

Your shutting down rightwing websites and free speech the phase hate speech"
is nothing more than an essuse to take away NZ freedoms and religious rights
in Orwellian attack on right wing voters and attack on freedom of association
and discrimory laws both of which are illegal in NZ.

leftwingers are currently the only ones with free speech so what you are doing
is outright illegal no matter the jusifcation

------
781
Leading media, New York Times, The Guardian, Washington Post are calling for
immediate and drastic action against 8chan.

It's only a matter of time until it will be shutdown.

~~~
faissaloo
As someone who browses 8chan I'd rather the entire site doesn't take the hit,
since not the entire site partakes in this. It's only /pol/ that needs to be
removed.

~~~
odessacubbage
8ch is jim's ego project now, it'll continue to exist as long as it amuses him
or is regulated out of existence. removing /pol/ wont remove /pol/ users.
however, removing places like /pol/ or /baph/ would fundamentally kill 8ch as
it would no longer be a free speech site. nor would such a move appease the
disingenuous opportunists who use tragedies like this for their own personal
gain.

~~~
faissaloo
Modern 8ch has been overrun by /pol/, they've been a consistent problem that's
only gotten worse. 8ch already isn't a free speech site, /pol/ will ban you
for even questioning their rhetoric. Sure you can create a new board, but
almost no one ever browses those except to stash CP when they eventually get
abandoned.

Removing /pol/ would certainly remove /pol/ users, they would need to find
another place and it takes time for these sorts of communities to regroup.

------
ydnaclementine
delete pol

~~~
pbhjpbhj
Won't people just use another forum. It might disrupt things briefly but
doesn't seem like a solution to anything much except for those running the
chans escaping the heat, and politicians who will say "look that hate forum is
gone, problem solved; vote me!".

------
o10449366
Why do Twitter, Reddit, Facebook, and YouTube continue to turn a blind eye to
the hate that populate their platforms? Why do they continue to enable them?
The only argument I've heard is that regulating speech is a slippery slope,
but I don't find that very persuasive.

[https://twitter.com/fraser_anning](https://twitter.com/fraser_anning)

It makes me incredibly sad how blatant calls for violence and racist and
backwards ideologies are freely pushed on Twitter. Please stop giving these
people a platform.

~~~
steveeq1
You're also going to ban the hate in rap music, right?

~~~
lostlogin
What is a moderate approach? Blocking distribution of a gunmans rampage seems
ok to me. Allowing angry rap music seems fine. Where is the line?

~~~
pbhjpbhj
What about angry rap music that demands policemen are shot?

