
Ask HN: How do you deal with self-doubt and depression - rottingmind
I am going through some serious self-doubt. I feel everyone around me is better than me.<p>I am feeling crippled inside my heart, I don&#x27;t know how how to put it into words.<p>I procrastinate to keep my mind off things, but it is spiralling me more towards more self-hatred and doubt on my skills.<p>I avoid meeting friends. I try to appear happy when meeting people. But inside I know I am useless piece of crap.<p>I literally am a bad programmer, bad business person, probably a bad friend and spouse.
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RikNieu
I'll suggest an approach that works for me: stop believing your thoughts and
internal narratives.

They are not true and they are not 'you'. And even if they sometimes are
accurate, they're not permanent or true in all cases. But mostly, they're just
plain false, or hyperbole, or misunderstandings, or projections, or just plain
random. They are just mind objects that pop in and out of your awareness,
based on conditioning. Your mind will keep on supplying your awareness with
the kinds of thoughts that it generally focuses on.

So here's how you do it: don't try and suppress your thoughts or make them go
away. But when one pops into your head, simply note objectively that a thought
popped up, categorise it as negative, positive, or neutral, and and allow it
to go away. If it's got some utility to it, like "I need to feed the dog",
follow it through. But don't get dragged into believing it, especially if its
just negative and unhelpful.

Humouring your internal negative dialog is like arguing with crazy strangers
on the internet. It's pointless and a waste of time. You don't have to take on
and identify with their statements and opinions.

Here's a talk(it's from a Buddhist monk) on this very issue that might help
you, if you're open to it. [http://www.amaravati.org/audio/negative-
mind/](http://www.amaravati.org/audio/negative-mind/)

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rottingmind
Thanks. I will give this a try.

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andromeda__
One thing I learnt is that as humans we're probably more alike than we might
want to accept. Many people are probably going through what you are going
through and even though that might not be sufficient to make you feel like
you're on top of the world, the point is, it happens to the best of us so you
shouldn't feel alone.

Secondly, talk to someone you trust. Confide in them.

Thirdly, if you truly think you have room for improvement in your life and
your relationships, do it now. Be better; you can do it. Start now.

Lastly, if you drink alcohol, stop it. It only makes it worse.

Stay hopeful.

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kk_cz
See a doctor. Seriously. You wouldn't ask HN how to solve a chronic disease
affecting your heart or stomach. Why do you try this approach when symptoms of
disease affecting brain kick in? Therapy works. Antidepressants work.

I was suffering pointlessly for several years before seeking help and got much
better in mere weeks of antidepressants use. Don't be as stupid as I was.

~~~
rottingmind
I know what you are saying. I understand it. But I am not able to bring myself
to do it.

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jackgolding
It will be a lot more help than you realise but that's your choice.

Some of us are lucky (educated, able to earn a reasonable income) that we can
choose the rules we play by in life. I went to a top 20 global university and
studied really hard because I thought I had to prove it to someone. Studying
in a top uni like that didn't help in the end because I kept looking like an
idiot next to people who are literally the smartest in the country (ex
olympiad mathematicians etc.) Doing all of this I ended up fluctuating with
weight a lot so I went to a gym and started lifting. I really enjoyed this and
met more friends doing it, they were better at lifting than me but I was
getting good results so I kept doing it. Losing a bit of weight got me more
confidence so I started doing a public speaking course (toastmasters) and this
confidence has helped me excel in my career a lot more than any MOOC I've
studied, course I've done at uni or any project I've completed at work. I
don't work at Google but I don't care because I don't surround myself with
people who value that (a good phrase is you values are influenced by the 5
people you talk to the most.)

In short: I bet there is something that will make you feel better about
yourself more than coding will, so you should try broaden your horizons.

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throwaway13542
As someone who has been through a similar phase (during my Ph.D.) that lasted
years, and who has seen close friends go through the same, I hope the
following will help.

During this phase, I found myself unable to step back from the little failures
and hiccups I hit along the way. I was unable to see the big picture or look
at the effect of small efforts made in the long term. As a result, whenever
something would go wrong or even appear to go wrong on a goal I had set out to
do, it would immediately trigger a flood of gated emotions that I had held
back to start pursuing that goal in the first place.

The only way I managed to dig myself slowly out of my state of mind was to
force 'small wins' on a day-to-day basis.

Go to the gym. Get out of bed and finish a morning routine. Read two to five
pages of a book before bedtime. Try cooking a new recipe on a Sunday
afternoon. Have a date-night with your spouse to reconnect. And so on. I
started by forcing similar small wins for a month and found myself gaining the
confidence to push towards bigger goals, except with a significantly better
outlook this time around.

My advice would be to set up the smallest goals you can, and then go
accomplish them. Remove the possibility of failure from the equation. Start
with just one and go sequentially in the beginning. Specifically, activities
like sports and exercise have built-in metrics that let you see clear progress
over time. The confidence that comes from these small wins provides the
foundation to push yourself a little farther as time goes on. Confidence
breeds confidence. Start with one aspect of your life (e.g. health, or
relationship with spouse) and slowly expand into the other parts of your life.
When things go wrong, just re-think the goal; break it down further or
simplify and try again.

From my own personal experience, a surefire way to fail is to initially set
yourself up with goals that require significant time or patience. With an
inability to step back and see that failure in the short term doesn't imply
failure in the long term, it risks spiraling you back into old patterns that
only provide negative reinforcement.

Hope this helps.

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tabeth
In addition to all of the advice given here, I might add: find a job that's
_easy_ for you. If it requires a pay-cut, so be it. I think doing something
that's easy and being very successful will build your confidence that will
help in solving all of the problems you mention, in addition to all the other
advice.

It's difficult for me to explain, but being notably good at what you're doing
is very healthy. Moreso, I think then being OK and _feeling_ that you're below
average at a more difficult task. I wouldn't do the easy stuff for too long,
as your skills won't grow as fast, but a stint for a couple years can't hurt.

Good luck!

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CyberFonic
I can relate to what you write. I too have gone through such a bleak time. And
yes, the spiral can become a vortex. But there's hope:

People around you are NOT better than you. For the most part they are faking
it and hoping like crazy that they'll make it. In some places, e.g. SF, SV,
everybody is "crushing it". It's an act. Most likely they suffer from impostor
syndrome.

It is daunting to change everything at once. So just pick one area and make
some small improvement. You imply that you are married. That is a good place
to start, sit down with your spouse, tell them how you feel and discuss how
you could make one change (cooperatively) that improves things for both of
you. Then you could repeat this. Having improved home situation is an
excellent start. Emboldened by such a success you could have a similar step
with a very good friend and so it goes on. I would leave becoming better at
work to when you have some wins on the board.

There is no stigma in seeking professional help. It certainly helped get me
onto the right track (I was single at the time and hardly had any friends due
to working long hours).

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rottingmind
I should seek help. I know it. But I find it really difficult to believe that
I am worthy of anything.

I will definitely try talking with my spouse today. I hope this helps me crawl
out of this mess I seem to be creating in my mind.

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wernsey
I would recommend seeking out professional help for this kind of depression.
Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is a keyword you can search for.

If you make mistakes or aren't good at something, there are three things to
bear in mind:

1\. Other people will likely not realize that you've made a mistake. Mostly
because people in general are self centered and they are also worried about
how other people see them. Probably so worried that they don't realize your
mistake.

2\. If they do realize you've made a mistake, you will seem more human to
them. Your mistakes will actually endear you to the people around you.

In the end, you judge yourself more harshly than other people judge you. Next
time you see someone make a mistake, like spill a drink, observe how you judge
that person. You'll probably just feel glad that it didn't happen to you and
move on. That's how other people see you.

3\. People want to be liked and act within social norms. If you make a mistake
and someone points and laughs at you, then that person is acting outside of
social norms, and the fault lies with them and not with you.

Good luck.

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dmitripopov
It's not you, it's your low dopamine level that speaks for you. Funny that
just a tiny amount of chemical make you a different person. Here's what you
can do right now to increase it:

1\. Go for sleep, at least for 10 hours.

2\. Go for a long walk (all day long), preferrably where you never been
before.

3\. Stop drinking coffee and other caffeine-based drinks.

4\. Stop drinking alcohol and smoke

5\. Listen to your favorite music, read a book or do whatever you like.

6\. Spend time with your friends and family.

Do this for at least a week and you will feel better for sure. BUT! If it does
not help you need to visit psychotherapist as soon as possible - this
condition is DANGEROUS!

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beauchef
Very simple points, but important ones. I agree.

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DanBC
Cognitive behaviour therapy is evidence based, and short. A course of
treatment takes about one hour per week for about 12 weeks.

It's effective for about 60% of the people who go through it.

Mindfulness and meditation are useful tools that give you a structured way to
examine your thoughts.

Medication is useful for many people, but you may need to try a couple to get
one that suits you and that works.

If you're having thoughts of suicide you should carefully seek medical help.
If you have a plan you need urgent medical attention.

~~~
rottingmind
Some people like yourself have suggested meditation and therapy. I will try
meditation. I don't know if I will be able to keep my mind still.

I don't think I am suicidal yet. But it gets a bit hard to do normal things on
normal days. I'd much rather lie down and not do anything.

~~~
urahara
Spend time to figure out the reasons. Why do you feel bad about yourself? When
it started? What changed in your life that contributed to your transition from
a happy person to unhappy? What should change to make you confident and happy?
This will give you a list of particular actions you should take to solve your
problem.

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beauchef
I have been there, I know what you are going through. What works for me:
physical activity (running in my case), meditation, and rational emotive
behavior therapy (look into Albert Ellis). A psychologist could help. And if
all else fails, see a doctor. But my most important advice? Don't delay, and
seek help.

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mirandac
Change your thoughts to productive thoughts. Judgmental thoughts are not
productive. Cut out the emotions and be rational. Instead of thinking "am I
bad?" think "how can I get better?".

Without walking the heavy road we never get anywhere. Everybody suffers and
starts out bad, that's OK. Giving up is for losers.

As for relationships: Share happiness and small gestures. It will make their
life better and in turn your life.

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nausea1975
I have exactly the same symptoms. My favorite sport teams always lose or some
of them are out of history, are bankrupted or relegated. Some of my very good
friends died or are very sick. I never found God. I'm afraid of nuclear war,
earthquakes, terrorists , russian invasion, alien abductions. I have a
constant fear of dark. More, I'm very fat. I live just out of curiosity, to
see what can happen and how it will end. One solution is in movie Fight Club,
at beginning ..try to find people under you, with cancer or other deathly
ills.

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psyc
The only thing that ever helped me was meditation. And by 'helped' I mean
solved completely. Even having these thoughts in your mind at all is bad.
Practice having a clear mind that's mostly aware of real present things.

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Vosporos
I've recently managed to see a psychiatrist. It really helps to talk to
someone. Also, tell your friend and your spouse about how you feel. They
should know and could help you. :) Good luck with that.

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johnnydoebk
I had the same issue, solved it by finding a job. Repeated it twice. Every
time I'm not busy with my projects or work for too long, I start doubting.

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rottingmind
How do you guys find passion ? I don't know where my passion lies. Do I even
have a passion ? Do I have to be passionate about something ?

~~~
DamonHD
I think that "passion" is over-claimed and over-rated.

I just get on with stuff, stuff that I think makes the world a little better
each day.

And I concur with many of the points made in other replies, eg others are
often faking it madly and you don't have to be the best in the world to be
worth the oxygen that you breathe.

You will most likely feel batter in time. Give yourself time, and reduce some
of the stresses that are making you feel bad.

I know how bad one can feel, but the very fact that you are reflective and
thoughtful means that you're likely one of the good ones! Hang in there!

Rgds

Damon

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yasha91
take some time to think about what makes you happy and try to pursue
that...you're more than likely to be good at something you're passionate
about.

