
LinkedIn: The Creepiest Social Network - antoinec
http://www.interactually.com/linkedin-creepiest-social-network/
======
imroot
I wish that LinkedIn had the ability to disable your profile.

I'm not looking for a job, I'm not looking to connect with recruiters, and I
really don't like the ability for one of my exes to publicly see where I'm
working so that she can continue to harass me -- on the other hand, My
LinkedIn Profile is around eight or nine years old at this point in time, and
I've amassed a fair amount of connections, that I'd like to keep should I need
to start looking for a job anytime soon. I wish that I could disable it,
hiding it from search engines, recruiters, and anyone else who's looking for
it, until I'm ready to start looking for a job without deleting every one of
my connections and starting over.

~~~
dangerlibrary
You don't pay for LinkedIn.

You are the product, and allowing you to hide your profile makes you a less
valuable product to the customers (recruiters). Until paying customers start
complaining that their response rates are too low because there are too many
inactive/unresponsive profiles, this won't happen.

~~~
LoSboccacc
What I hate the most are the cheapskates recruiters that don't pay for premium
and spam you connection request not being able to send direct mails.

I don't mind being connected with relevant offers, that's what I signed up
for. But then there are those low rate recruiters sending shotgun requests,
asking for connecting and then asking me to do their job (you know, that'if
you know someone interested' part) with mass request that are not even close
to my listed skillset.

I don't understand how people can benefit from employing them, if they can't
even match skills too job most prospects sent to interviews will be a waste of
time for both parties involved.

------
fps
I had an interesting experience last year when I was working in a co-working
space. I noticed that LinkedIn started suggesting to me the other people who
were working in the same space. I had no verbal or virtual contact with these
people, other than basic office small talk, but I never knew their name and
they never knew mine. I mentioned it to them, and they all claimed they hadn't
looked me up on LinkedIn, and that that was very weird. My assumption was that
LinkedIn knew we were sharing the same internet connection and so they linked
us together.

~~~
evilduck
I'm pretty sure Facebook does this too. I moved cities and got a new job
without using my network of friends to get it and I don't keep any [accurate]
personal contact data on Facebook. Suddenly my boss and coworkers are
suggested people I may know despite the only thing we shared in common w.r.t.
Facebook is a set of IP addresses.

~~~
discardorama
I have multiple Facebook accounts (I created them for testing a long time
ago). I use only 1 of them. But it's funny to see Facebook claiming that
Account #2 sent a "friend request" to Account #3. And offering up the other
accounts as "people you may know". The only commonality is the IP.

~~~
boomzilla
What do you think all the "data scientists" hired by these companies do? IP
addresses (or IPGeo) is one strong signal that goes into the "people who you
might know" model. One can argue how effective these models are, but it's
quite likely that they are found to be useful, for some metrics that the
companies care about, like user growth, revenue or whatever. It's also likely
that negative sentiment on a forum like HN is not part of the metrics these
models are optimized for.

~~~
discardorama
As a data scientist, I have always debated the efficacy of the IP address as
an identifier. It _could_ be useful, but used as-is, I think it is not that
great a signal.

Just because a signal gets you some positive results, does not make it useful.
You have to also look at the second-order effects. Does it creep out people?
Does it make people _less_ likely to use your service, thereby negating the
positive effect of added connections?

------
crypt1d
The only thing I find linkedin useful for these days is to keep an eye on open
positions related to my field. Besides, I dont know anyone that uses LinkedIn
and actually likes it. Lets face it, its completely horrible for many reasons:

\- Recruiters sending unsolicited connections requests and spam,

\- Lame articles on productivity ( "5 reasons you should do X", or "5 things
billionaires do when Y" bla bla.)

\- Who viewed your profile feature - seriously, things like this make people
not click on other people's profile.

\- All kinds of statistics on profile views that don't really mean anything of
value.

\- Thousands of collaboration groups that are completely inactive, so
basically no community whatsoever.

I honestly think that the only reason they are still in business is because
nobody came up with a superior product yet, and that makes me sad.

~~~
hamitron
In addition to the recruiter spam, I found that they will simply add you so
they have access to your connections as well.

------
Mahn
> I don’t currently and haven’t previously used the Imported Contact feature

But perhaps the others did? If 'Steve Jacobs' imported _his_ contacts and you
exchanged emails with him, LinkedIn apparently becomes aware of that
relationship. In fact:

> Tami has a total of 5 connections, lives in Seattle, no public company or
> title listed, but we just happened to exchange a few emails a couple days
> prior regarding some questions I had about software her company sold.

Tami probably used the imported contacts feature here, and that's how LinkedIn
would know.

~~~
zatkin
The author argues (in the comments on the webpage) that Tami had a small time
frame to import her contacts, but perhaps she just didn't show up in "People
You May Know" yet.

------
zatkin
Other users who have imported their contact list is probably what causes them
to show up on "People You May Know". I have noticed that people who I'm
suggested to add are ones that I have only communicated with through email.

~~~
AdamFernandez
This is the most obvious explanation. It compares your email to the list of
contacts that other people have imported. If you were on their list, you may
'know' them. Pretty simple.

~~~
interactually
Not necessarily. I've had recommendations from people I've never exchanged
emails or phone numbers with and our only "connection" has been through
Facebook or Twitter. They'd have no reason or way to have me in their contacts
list. As the article describes, they've even recommended people who just
happen to share the same name as someone I DO know, but otherwise have not the
slightest connection in the world with.

------
ams6110
If it's creepy it should just illustrate that it's not too difficult to make
these sorts of connections based on address books and activity both on
linkedin and on other sites that cooperate with linkedin.

What you do online is in most cases not very private. Act accordingly.

------
seren
Creepy experience from this week. We have hired someone for daycare, I only
have exchanged a few mail with that person. And now, her husband is in "people
I know".

I don't have shared my mail credentials with Linkedin, but I assume she has,
and since we are both in her contact list, Linkedin assumed we know each
other. It is somewhat correct but creepy nonetheless.

I am not going to add him but from my point of view, proposing you to add
people you only know remotely diminishes the usefulness of the network. How
can you trust the relation/recommendation/etc if you are connected to your
second cousin's neighbor ?

~~~
vosper
I'm always a bit surprised that people find this sort of thing to be creepy.
It's done automatically at a large scale by an algorithm - I would bet that
there isn't a single human being at LinkedIn who knows that this connection
was made (or is even aware of your existence [sorry]).

Having said that, I completely agree that "proposing you to add people you
only know remotely diminishes the usefulness of the network". LinkedIn should
really dial this back a bit.

~~~
seren
It is creepy in the sense that it reminds me that every action I am taking
online is monitored. And in this particular instance, I don't perceive the
added value. Basically when it is useful, it is cool, and when it is not, it
is creepy.

------
interactually
Just a few more bits of creepiness that have happened since I wrote this
article a couple years ago:

\- My wife signed up for LinkedIn years ago with her work email but never
added any connections. She got an email to her personal email address from
LinkedIn saying "David Veldt is inviting you to join LinkedIn!" I have no
permissions that I could find set to allow such a thing.

\- Just in the past week, two people have requested to connect with me that I
haven't seen in over 10 years and live a couple states away from. Our only
"connection" is that we're Facebook friends. There's no way I'm in their
contacts list. I find it highly unlikely that they've searched or viewed my
profile because we have absolutely nothing in common.

\- The thing lately that pisses me off the most is how much they're trying to
get me to mindlessly give them access to my contact list. On the app,
sometimes a screen pops up when I open it to "Find more connections" but turns
out they want authorization for my address book. Same thing on the
notifications; they show a notification in the connections icon which usually
indicates someone wants to connect, but instead its just a generic "hey, we
can find you more of these!" type of notification. Reminds me of the cartoons
where the salesman keeps popping up from laundry hampers and behind trees.

Might be time for a follow-up article.

------
mlajeunesse
Does anyone else think that LinkedIn should spend less time being creepy and
more time fixing it's basic features? Half the time the site takes forever to
load, the filtering features rarely work and the search is so bad. I don't
know how a site that has been around for this long still has so many issues
with basic features.

------
markbnj
It may be the creepiest social network, but it is also the only network where
I can be endorsed for skills I've forgotten I had by people I've forgotten I
worked with.

~~~
wsc981
I've always found the endorsements pretty pointless, especially since many
people seem to 'trade' endorsements (I endorse you if you endorse me). So I
don't accept endorsements and I also will not endorse anyone.

------
mud_dauber
I completely grok this discussion. Let me add a different perspective.

I work in a remote office with a very small number of keep-to-themselves
colleagues. It's very common to arrive, spend 9 hours working, and leave for
home w/o any dialogue other than a polite "how's it going?". In other words
the place is dead.

The sales force is scattered around the world & doesn't need a lot of hand-
holding. Our marketplace is a relative backwater, so there's not a lot "churn"
to keep things interesting. (I'm a product guy. Interaction is like
breathing.)

The bottom line is that I find myself with a lot spare time to explore &
learn. My first choices are HN & Feedly, but I do enjoy finding colleagues
from prior jobs - and the occasional high school / college friend - on LI. It
definitely serves a remote-networking purpose for me.

------
peterjmag
_LinkedIn has experienced substantial growth in recent years, but they seem to
be overstepping their bounds in certain areas._

I'd argue that they've experienced substantial growth precisely _because_ they
overstep their bounds. They're actively rewarded for engaging in this kind of
behavior, and they rarely (if ever) face any real consequences when they take
it too far. And despite the occasional angry blog post, it will continue until
there's some sort of mass exodus of users—and even that would most likely be
brought on by simple network effects rather than any sort of collective
concern for privacy.

------
traviswingo
It's creepy but its also cool from an engineering perspective. Statistically
we can draw fairly accurate conclusions merely based on the actions of the
people around us. LinkedIn is just taking the data approach to how someones
face looks when someone they know walks into the room. -_-

------
justindocanto
This link is now redirecting to an odd mix of the intended link + the wp
install url

[http://www.interactually.com/linkedin-creepiest-social-
netwo...](http://www.interactually.com/linkedin-creepiest-social-network/wp-
admin/install.php)

~~~
interactually
Sorry about that; my web host sucks and this happens whenever this post blows
up. The problem should be resolved now.

------
msm23
The author pointed out that there is an additional Privacy Controls section in
Groups, Companies & Applications as well as under Profile. However, there is
yet another Privacy Controls section under Account.

    
    
        LinkedIn may use cookies and similar technologies
        on third party sites to understand my browsing interests
        and target ads and personalize services accordingly.
    

If you're going to have a "Privacy Controls" section, then please do not be
creepy and spread such controls through three separate sections.

~~~
interactually
Author here: Thanks for pointing this out, the article is a couple years old.
I like how vague this new bit is as well. I'm sure we'd never find out any
details about these "similar technologies" or which "third party sites"

------
jader201
Title needs [2013] appended, as it's from May 9, 2013.

Original HN thread:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5680680](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5680680)

------
mbesto
> _David Veldt is a digital marketing consultant specializing in building
> online businesses and growing brands. He writes on a variety of topics
> within SEO, PPC and analytics, as well as the occasional ode to baseball._

This is an amazing conclusion coming from a digital marketing consultant who's
livelihood is based on the very principles that he's challenging. This is akin
to a car salesman not realizing that many of the parts of the "American car"
he's selling are probably not made in America.

------
vuldin
I don't like how I still show up on linkedin to other people in spite of the
fact that I deleted my account (to the best of anyone's ability) years ago.

------
rdlecler1
LinkedIn's social graph is much more valuable to the company, if the graph
captures only real offline connections. A fully connected network graph offers
no information insights. As time goes on and LinkedIn's social graph becomes
polluted with spurious connections this will devalue the company. They need
more quality control around this, not more sharsee.

~~~
suttree
Yes, this. You can see them struggling to fill out the graph with more data,
in the belief that more is better, but it's certainly not richer.

Of course, I'm conflicted, building a cultural graph at www.somewhere.com
rather than a social graph - I think those days are over.

------
junto
I had a similar experience with the suggested name of a family member that was
pretty unusual. It had her working for a different company than the one she
works for. I actually asked her some months later whether she was enjoying her
new job, and sue looked at me completely blankly. I have no idea hoe they
extrapolate these false positives.

~~~
HillRat
The only thing worse than a creepy panopticon that knows everything about you
is a creepy panopticon that just _thinks_ it knows everything about you.

------
untog
Deleted my LinkedIn account about a year ago. I'm yet to suffer a single
negative consequence from it.

------
PLenz
Is LinkedIn even a social network? Everyone I know uses it as basically a
resume hosting site. I don't know of anyone who uses it for actually doing
anything 'social' \- just career related things.

~~~
PakG1
I saw a meme post today. Bunch of people liked it. It said, "LinkedIn is not
Facebook. Please stop posting silly brainteasers, what you ate, and so on." Or
something to that effect.

I think the HN crowd wouldn't really care for its social aspects because the
HN crowd's professional online social needs are more satisfied by the likes of
HN, Github, Stackoverflow, and so on. However, I see a lot of professional
discussions on there for people of other career paths.

------
veritas20
I remember reading an article a while back (can't find it at the moment) that
LinkedIn imported iPhone users contact lists without consent similar to what
Path did but much earlier.

------
erkose
What makes it creepy to me is that it is an Experian company.

~~~
fintler
What do you mean by "Experian company"? How is Experian related to this?

~~~
erkose
There is a sign outside their original office (not the new ones) on Matilda
which states this.

~~~
fintler
Do you mean 755 N. Mathilda Ave?

It looks like LinkedIn is just moving into Experian's old office. I don't
think the two companies are related.

~~~
erkose
I'll have to double check, but it looks like you're right
[http://goo.gl/maps/0hMLV](http://goo.gl/maps/0hMLV)

------
interactually
I wrote this blog post almost two years ago. Incredibly disappointed that the
problem has only gotten worse and no questions have been answered.

------
diminoten
They're just suggesting people who've looked at your profile.

Your friends looked you up on LinkedIn.

------
ndesaulniers
Is it at all possible that they have deals with hosted email providers?

------
machosx
It's actually a pretty ugly site. You'd think for a site that popular they'd
hire better designers.

------
p1itopre
My creepiest experience on LI: my six year old niece is a recommended
connection.

------
jamiesonbecker
One time I sent an email to a random celebrity, and literally a few minutes
later he showed up in my 'you may know..' list. I became convinced at that
point that LI is sniffing SMTP headers at peering points. I don't know how you
would cut that deal, but if Google has their CDN everywhere, there's
precedent.

~~~
chatmasta
More likely they get data from their acquisition of Rapportive, which is a
gmail extension that displays LinkedIn info of people next to emails from/to
them.

~~~
jamiesonbecker
Good guess, except neither of us were using Gmail.

~~~
proksoup
Gmail can be used with non gmail domains.

~~~
jamiesonbecker
But gmail would show in the Received headers, right..

~~~
proksoup
Sorry for ignorance, I don't know what received headers are.

Would the same apply if the email you sent is "forwarded" automatically to
another email address that you are unaware of?

Or by received headers you meant you get a reply back from the celebrity?

~~~
jamiesonbecker
> Or by received headers you meant you get a reply back from the celebrity?

Yes, I received several replies back but that was the sole extent of our
contact on the Internet or real life.

Received headers show the previous mail servers that the email passed through
through on its way to you. There can be many; each server adds another.

See
[https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2822.txt](https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2822.txt) §
3.6.7, "Trace fields" and Appendix A.4 for an example. (Or, press control-U in
some mail clients to see the source of an email you received to see all the
headers.)

~~~
proksoup
Oh ...

My money is that they (the celebrity) viewed you on linkedin, and that is the
data linkedin used to make the connection.

That's certainly what I do before replying to strangers, google them and look
at things.

~~~
jamiesonbecker
Good thought! That's quite possible, and he may not have shown up in my "These
people viewed your profile" list for various reasons.

