
Amazon Alexa Comes to Pebble Core - yurisagalov
https://blog.getpebble.com/2016/06/02/ks3u03/
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rdl
I'm an (unhappy) Apple Watch owner, but this is one thing which has gotten me
to back the new Pebble on kickstarter -- Alexa is the most useful audio
platform I've encountered so far.

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alttab
You won't be dissapointed, although you may want to get an android phone. The
benefits outweigh the costs.

~~~
hauget
I thought Pebble Core didn't need a phone? Or am I mistaken?

~~~
untog
The OP's post is ambiguous - replacing an Apple Watch with a Pebble Core
doesn't make much sense, but replacing it with a Pebble watch doesn't make
sense in this context either as it doesn't have Alexa.

~~~
alttab
My thought was the OP has an Apple Watch, thus obviously an iPhone. If they
want to buy into the Pebble ecosystem, it'd be a better experience with an
Android phone, not to mention you get amazing features like an external
battery and an actual choice in software.

~~~
rdl
I'm Apple Watch/iPhone. I'm probably anti-watch now, thanks to shitty
experience with the AW -- I won't be replacing it with another watch of any
kind. However, I'm super interested in the Core for many non-watch
applications.

I also hate android for many reasons and am unlikely to move away from iPhone
except to something entirely new/better than either, which doesn't
particularly appear to be in the pipeline. In the next couple years I want to
get rid of all uncontrolled radios on my person, though, so I'll probably be
switching to a de-radioed iPhone or iPad or iPod Touch or something.

~~~
alttab
What's to "hate" about android? When is the last time you used one? Android
has closed the Gao with iPhone, and surpassed it in many ways.

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randomsearch
Why Apple Watch sucks:

\- ugly design \- overpriced \- no clear killer app

Why smart watches are inevitable:

\- payments \- swiping through subways, doors, hotels, airports \- effortless
exchanges between individuals (replacing business cards and cash transactions)
\- absorbing the fitness market Fitbit etc

Recently I've been getting very annoyed at Apple's terrible software quality.
I've also had an opportunity to use Android, and I've found it a far
_inferior_ experience (unfortunately).

I want to leave Apple but it's still the best option, even after a year of
tanking quality.

Conclusion: we need a new Apple.

~~~
jeromegv
If you get a new Apple to create your perfect smartwatch, what is that killer
app that they should create? That's an odd & very unspecific feature to ask
for.

~~~
randomsearch
Sorry if it wasn't entirely clear, but the second list were the killer apps I
was referring to.

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sekou
Microsoft introduced the tablet PC in 2001, nine years before the first iPad.
As with Apple's watch now, the experience wasn't worth the cost. Clues about
what the future will look like are already all around us and I think this is
one of them.

~~~
azinman2
If you have a phone on you, a screen and direct manipulation will always win
out. There's too high a perceived psychological barrier compared to being able
to 'do it yourself' with your hands. The echo works because you don't have any
device to manipulate, and often you're using it while shouting at it or are
busy with your hands in the kitchen (and even then the majority of its current
usage is timers and music -- the easier stuff that works decently well with
voice).

If the watch itself has data (cellular or otherwise) and you don't have your
phone, that's when there's some advantage to being able to do this. However
it's unclear when that's better than having a phone -- if its about going on a
run then dedicated fitness trackers might be all you need compared to a watch
that has to solve all problems with a terrible and tiny UI.

There are many reasons smartwatches (not just apple's) have been doing poorly
on the market -- it's a demand from industry rather than consumers, and the
advantages have not been clearly communicated at all (the most personal device
ever? compare that to the iPhone's you can email/web anywhere anytime -- clear
value).

~~~
ajford
Well, don't forget that the article talks about the Pebble Core, which is the
screen-less processing module on the new Pebble Kickstarter. There is no
direct manipulation (other than the two buttons on the device) or feedback. It
is intended for development or things like run tracking.

If you are running, it may be considerably easier (and safer) to use a voice
interface like Alexa than it would be to use a screen. Which is probably why
they focused on Alexa for the Core and not the watches.

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didsomeonesay
Slightly OT question: Would the Pebble 2 be useful as a privacy-respecting
health tracker?

I am looking for a device for long-term heart-rate tracking (additional
included gimmicks appreciated). But I am worried about things like: Does the
health app upload to cloud services? If so, can it be turned off? Is the
Bluetooth synchronization protocol documented to support open-source app
implementations?

~~~
jbombadil
I would not advise to use or buy pebble if you're concerned about privacy. As
a company, they don't seem to be particularly interested in it.

For example: I was investigating some time ago (might have been updated) how
to register a new pin in the timeline from the phone and apparently the way to
do it was to send the contents of it to Pebble servers. Assuming their app
uses the same API, it means every single calendar item you see in your
timeline is actually sent (and possibly logged) in their servers.

I raised this point to their support and in pebble forums and got no answer.

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fra
You're right, the public timeline API does require hitting our servers.

However, the calendar pins we push from our mobile apps do not use that public
API and thus do not - as far as I know - hit the cloud.

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TeMPOraL
Any plans on changing that? I mean, there doesn't seem to be anything in
Timeline that inherently requires routing stuff through your server. That's
the one thing that always perplexed me - you could do almost anything to
Pebble without touching the outside world, and here there's that one thing
that suddenly requires the cloud. If I may ask, what is the reason you built
it this way?

~~~
IanCal
You can put things in the timeline from an external place, so I can push
something to many timelines (e.g. sports scores) using pebbles API. That
definitely requires going through pebbles servers.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Makes sense, but it still shouldn't preclude my companion app from pushing
pins to my watch's timeline completely off-line. The sane model seems to be a
timeline stored locally on your Pebble app that can be synced to the Pebble
cloud. What I understand from the current model is that Pebble app is just a
dumb cache.

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bjorn2404
I wonder if Amazon has ever considered buying Pebble.

~~~
vannevar
It seems like they would want Alexa on every platform, so owning a platform
(other than the Echo, which they needed to launch it) may not be advantageous.
Though you might say the same for the Kindle, and that didn't stop them from
making their own.

~~~
bryanlarsen
You'd think so, but Amazon doesn't think that way. They don't sell chromecasts
or Apple TV's in their store, when they'd make far more money selling them and
getting buyers to subscribe to Amazon Video...

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codeisawesome
Is there a confirmed analysis of this? Just curious because I'm sure Amazon
probably has an army of excel analyst warlocks (and chief warlocks) + a board
to answer to...

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zwilliamson
I was a happy user of the Pebble Time. However, I recently decided to switch
to the Fitbit Blaze to participate in some physical activity challenges with
friends and family. So far the experience with the Fitbit Blaze has been bad.

* Music control intergration with Android is flaky and rarely work * Face of the watch is hard to see outdoors * Minimal Android phone notification integrations / settings * Watch face selection is minimal * No third party app market

My Pebble felt like a very well crafted device, with solid software backing
it. It wasn't perfect but when compared to the Fitbit Blaze it is far
superior.

I am really looking forward to coming back to Pebble Time 2 at this point.

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crumpled
Alexa is already in the app store. What's the story?

~~~
vhold
Does the Alexa app actually let you use voice to ask questions and issue
commands, or is it just an app to configure your Alexa devices?

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crumpled
Oh. It's a companion app. I didn't check closely enough. I only checked to see
if there was an Alexa app.

When I read the announcement the thing I really wondered was: If Amazon has an
Android port for Alexa, what's the motivation for making an exclusive deal
with Pebble? Why is that preferable to offering it on the app store to
everyone?

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vvanders
Dumb question maybe but why not bring this to other pebbles? There's a mic and
you have a network connection via smartphone.

~~~
erohead
Alexa only has an audio output at this time. We'd love to bring Alexa to all
Pebble watches! Tell amazon to add the api :)

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ewindisch
The API doesn't provide access to cards?

Anyway, even if it didn't, the watch could still just display a
speaker/microphone image and a graphic indicating audio playback.

Honestly, this is my personal hold-up on buying a smart watch. I'm pretty set
on getting one with Alexa built-in.

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hosh
I remember reading the article about Pebble and how smartwatch growth had not
panned out.

With a capable voice interface though, I can see the possibility of that magic
combination / killer app. I wonder if the Pebble Core will be as competent as
the Echo in filtering voice. Is this going to be a passive-listening device,
or do you press a button?

~~~
jeeva
Sorry for the late response, but I apparently left it open over the weekend.

I believe that the Core has no inbuilt microphone, instead relying on a
bluetooth headset / 3.5mm jack for sound in/out.

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jamespo
How about "Amazon Alexa comes to countries outside the US"? That would be
nice.

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street
Because having an always-on microphone in your house wasn't enough, let's now
put one on your wrist.

~~~
milesokeefe
This is specific to the Pebble Core, which is not a smartwatch and isn't worn
on the wrist.

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ricksplat
Apple should be starting to get worried. They had a good lead in innovation
but it looks like "everyone else" is catching up again. If apple isn't
bleeding edge anymore, is it relevant?

~~~
mikestew
Anyone relying on "notifications" to define their wrist-worn device is in big
trouble. I just bought a Garmin Fenix after debating to: wait and see what
Apple has at WWDC, or wait for the Pebble to ship. I ended up with the Fenix,
and commented to the wife: "notifications is the baseline, hell, just about
everything in Garmin's lineup can do that, and that's not their main
business."

So we see Pebble trying to define themselves with something other than just
"you have mail!", only on your wrist. To me, Apple seems to be trying to do to
much to not just be "notifications on your wrist", but not doing any of it all
that well. I ended up with the Fenix because after two versions of Pebbles it
seems my main use case for a wrist-worn device is fitness stuff, which Garmin
does really well. Pebble looks to be trying in this next iteration. But do I
wait on Pebble and take a chance they get fitness right, or do I get the watch
from the company I've been buying from for years and have been happy with, now
with wrist notifications? Apple's a non-starter, given that I have to bring a
phone on runs (umm...no).

In summary, when buying a thing that goes on my wrist, notifications are a
given. What _else_ do you have to offer? And that differentiation is what will
decide winners and losers, IMO.

~~~
ricksplat
_> we see Pebble trying to define themselves with something other than just
"you have mail!"_

In fairness with the Pebble Core, we have just that. I love the idea and I
can't think of anybody that's tried anything like it. A cross between a iPod
shuffle, a wireless modem and a keyfob. I really like the concept as a
personal area network focus _besides my phone_.

Oh, and as regards "just" being a notifications device - bear in mind Pebble
were the first, it's simple, and they're _cheap_. Three areas the Apple Watch
just can't compete on. They've gone all wrong - it wasn't glamour that made
Apple - it was solid quality engineering-led product development.

~~~
mikestew
Oh, I'm trying to be fair, and I see Pebble's branching out as a good thing
for them. I just don't see them sticking around otherwise. But I wasn't going
to pre-order (oh, sorry, "back") the next Pebble in the hopes that it can
match Garmin by September. As I also told my wife, "getting notifications to a
Bluetooth-enabled device is a (mostly) solved problem. Getting the fitness
aspects right is a much tougher problem". Pebble has shown evidence of
figuring things out after a few iterations, so they can pull it off.

Yes, Pebble's big selling point is price. But they also show their inexpensive
price. My Pebble Time Steel is a scratch and scuff magnet. The bezel is huge.
But you get what you pay for, and I still feel the Pebbles are a good value.
Hell, the Fenix is a $600 device. Sure, it has sapphire glass and hardy
exterior, alitimeter/compass/barometer, but still...$600. I can put the Fenix
to good use and get my money out of it (big runner and hiker), but I'm
guessing I'm not the mass market.

Apple, though, I dunno. Sure, they've sold bazillions of Apple Watches, but
I'm not sure where they go from there to justify the price. Ours is an Apple
household, but the Watch was never on the radar for us. No GPS in the device
was the deal-breaker for me (see: fitness features), because I'm not going to
carry a phone while running. Other aspects didn't work for me, but if the
Watch were just a bit more money than the Pebble I might have gotten one. But
it's a lot more money. Again, maybe I'm outside their intended demographic,
and not well-qualified to say what the future holds for Apple's device, but I
just didn't see the value.

~~~
ricksplat
Thanks for the info on the steel. Wasn't sure about it but durability is a big
red line for me. I just have the original "white" pebble, which is pocketmoney
price and arguably one of the nicer ones. I backed it on KS cause it was a new
class of device. Same reason I'm backing the core. Disclaimer: I do get
exercise but having a fitness tracker isn't a big deal for me and I'm quite
happy to bring my phone most places - but am still on the smaller form factor
devices.

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mrep
Normally i dismiss most people who are wary of using a lot of services on
AWS/GCE... due to concerns of lock in since I think the benefits of more rapid
development outweigh the costs.

However, this seems like a terrible strategy. Are they really outsourcing all
of the core service and voice integration to Amazon?

This totally reminds of windows. Microsoft built the core operating system
which became the defacto OS to build programs on. Hardware manufacturers then
had to compete with each other almost entirely on hardware specs and price
since most programs would only run on windows giving microsoft an almost
complete monopoly. Microsoft makes $$$ as monopoly, hardware manufacturers
make hardly since they are all competing on specs and price.

Amazon is probably laughing their way to the bank on this one.

~~~
sp332
_Are they really outsourcing all of the core service and voice integration to
Amazon?_

No. It's an Android device and the Echo integration is totally optional.

