
Not a Hacker or a Hipster – How I Got My First Startup Job - elemeno
https://medium.com/tech-london/not-a-hacker-or-a-hipster-how-i-got-my-first-start-up-job-922399a7dfbb#.qaysnclo5
======
na85
> talk to people around you, they’re surprisingly willing to be involved in
> what you’re doing if it’s interesting and not too onerous for them. Counters
> the general assumption that if you talk to strangers they’ll think you’re
> crazy.

Maybe if you're a young woman (as the author is) approaching someone at a
coffee shop, then sure.

Reverse the genders and watch the interaction take on a dramatically different
character.

~~~
slededit
And yet two guys were able to ask everyone in an entire coffee shop what they
were working on with a 95% "super friendly" rate. Perhaps some problems are
perceived rather than real.

[https://medium.com/life-learning/what-are-people-working-
on-...](https://medium.com/life-learning/what-are-people-working-on-in-coffee-
shops-cdf351e28b6#.sbxwsk5yx)

~~~
Bartweiss
I suspect that in a coffee shop in a good area, it really is this easy, male
or female. People are generally pretty social if everyone is on equal footing,
not obviously busy, and not creating discomfort.

Anyone who's tried to get petitions can attest that doing this on a street
corner is a much different beast, but I think hallway testing (or lead
finding, or whatever else) is more viable than most people think.

I'm also reminded of the study about asking people for their seat on a subway
- it's almost impossible to _ask_ , but surprisingly easy to _succeed_.

~~~
slededit
Petitions are a different animal. When asking what people are working on you
are taking interest in _them_. When you want them to sign a petition you are
asking something of them, and making them take interest in what you care
about.

------
rdl
I LOLed so hard at "The thing was at first I couldn’t find one start-up I
wanted to devote the next year or so of my life to building."

Hint: startup is more like 7-10y+ unless you're just playing at it, or it
fails. If you go into it expecting it to be a year, it probably will be.

~~~
uola
I think it's a fair characterization of some sort of minimum commitment as an
employee. Especially if you're new to the industry sticking around for 5+
years is going to be a waste of time, rarely will the company match your
market value.

~~~
AdieuToLogic
Keep in mind what was written in the article regarding the author's job at the
time was:

    
    
      The job was technically sales ...
    

And:

    
    
      Yesterday was my last day there as I’m
      now moving on to something new — planning
      to develop my currently non-existent
      technical skills full time.
    

So categorizing the author as being new "to the industry" at that point in
time (2015/07/30) is nonsensical unless peripheral exposure counts. Not to say
this remains the case, mind you, just that the perspective you describe is not
applicable to the person the author was at that time.

I will add that a person _actually_ in the industry would be wise to "stick
around" their first job or two for at least a year. Failing to do so is a red
flag for many companies as bouncing around early in the CV is often
interpreted as leaving before being fired.

~~~
uola
Sorry, I have little idea what your point is. She's was/is a recent graduate,
she's new to any industry. If you "stick around" long without increase in
salary, equity or experience (preferable all fo them) you're doing it wrong.
How it can be interpreted only matter for people who hasn't manged to get the
right experience to be in demand. In my opinion of course.

~~~
AdieuToLogic

      Sorry, I have little idea what your point is.
    

At the time this blog entry was written, she was working in a sales/marketing
capacity and not as a coder (her words, not mine). IMHO, this means she was
exposed to tech start-ups. She then goes on to say that she had "non-existent
technical skills."

My point was that anyone entering into the dev/tech world would be wise to
spend a year at their first job in order to:

* Learn about what is involved

* Have time to refine their skills

* Be able to show to other companies that they can survive

~~~
uola
"My point was that anyone entering into the dev/tech world would be wise to
spend a year"

Yes, but that was what she was looking for when she said "find one start-up I
wanted to devote the next year or so to building" and what I agreed with as
"some sort of minimum commitment as an employee"?

------
zappo2938
"Apply for jobs you’re a bit under qualified for. Most job descriptions
describe the perfect candidate. Those features are a wish list not a must
have. This applies even more in start-ups where genuine passion for the
company gets you a long way."

This sound like very good advice.

~~~
bobbles
Yeah exactly, hiring managers have this list in their head, and what they're
basically doing is crossing off items that dont apply for each candidate.
essentially the ones with the least things crossed out will likely be top of
the pile...

~~~
eksemplar
In my experience it's a weighted list though, and things like having a
compatible personality and a personal drive for wanting "this" job, often
counts a great deal more than the technical skills on the job description.

Unless we're talking contracts of course, then you'll simply want the best
technical candidate because you need someone who can deliver good quality on
time.

------
exolymph
Chutzpah goes very far. Ask for what you want, and explain why you deserve to
get it -- then offer to demonstrate your fitness. It's an excellent approach!

~~~
mwfunk
I need to work on my chutzpah. I overspecialized in moxie and spunk (the
personality trait, that is).

Chutzpah's critical though- you're usually not going to get what you want if
you never ask for it. You can wait a really long time for people to just give
you what you want, especially if you never express an interest by asking for
it.

It sounds like common sense, but it feels like it took about 20 years too long
for that to really sink in with me. I always assumed people understood me a
lot more than they actually did.

~~~
conjectures
Moxie and Spunk sounds like a great hipster brandname.

~~~
redpanda_ua
"Moxie and Spunk" sounds like a great garage band name.

------
AdieuToLogic
What cracks me up is this proclamation made by said author[0]:

    
    
      Over the 200 waking hours, I managed to
      hit the standard needed. It felt like
      multiple lucky answers and lots of Googling
      that got me there, but that’s how learning
      works. I learnt enough Javascript to
      get accepted onto the course and I spent
      another 3 months, with 15 others,
      Googling things together and creating
      a new app each week.
    
      Now I’m being paid to build early
      MVP’s (minimum viable products) for
      start-ups. So I can code.
    

I mean, really? This certainly cannot be modus operandi for start-ups can it?
Three months of "Javascript Googling" allows someone to brag about:

    
    
      being paid to build early
      MVP’s (minimum viable products) for
      start-ups.
    

And leveraging that incredibly weak argument into a summary of:

    
    
      So I can code.
    

Wow. If that's all it takes for someone to be hired into a start-up, then the
whole "funding is drying up" meme prevalent recently is _really_ making sense.

0 - [http://www.gadgette.com/2016/02/19/how-i-learnt-to-code-
in-a...](http://www.gadgette.com/2016/02/19/how-i-learnt-to-code-in-a-scarily-
short-space-of-time/)

~~~
onion2k
200 hours self-taught followed by 3 months at, say, 80 hours a week is 1160
hours in total. I imagine there are people who spend less time learning to
code during a 3 year university course. Plus her learning would be very
specifically focused on startup-oriented JavaScript instead of trying to cover
everything. I see no reason why the statement "So I can code." should be
wrong.

~~~
dominotw
Man that kind of makes me sad that I've wasted so much of my life over the
past decade learning one useless 'skill' after another.

Its a sad realization that someone who only started coding 3 months ago is
kicking my ass finding jobs at startups meanwhile I am being rejected( when
they respond) constantly .

~~~
onion2k
Coding knowledge is a long way down the list of things that a startup needs
from a developer, especially a junior level one. Enthusiasm, willing to do
boring stuff, personality, culture fit[1], a low salary, etc are all far more
important. Maybe you don't have one or more of those attributes.

[1] I hate 'culture fit' as a reason to employ someone. Employing people who
fit in with the existing culture is a fast track to creating a business
_completely_ lacking in diversity.

------
CameronBanga
Few things grind my gears like the idea that a person who cares about products
being usable and well designed is inherently a "hipster".

~~~
brashrat
few things grind my gears like hipsters telling me how much THEY care about
products being usable LIKE IT'S SOME SORT OF NEW IDEA, like they are the ONLY
ONES WHO CARE.

beards and winter hats in summer seem, counter intuitively, to incubate a lot
of unique little snowflakes.

~~~
digi_owl
If you want to preserve snow through the summer, heavy insulation is key.

------
pmiller2
I wonder how to apply this as an engineer. I'm looking around but finding very
little that excites me.

~~~
rwallace
Where are you looking? OP's idea of talking to people in coffee shops
obviously only works in certain cities. If you're not in such a location, you
need to look online.

------
w8rbt
Great article. It seems that she has an outgoing, friendly personality.
Companies need those types of employees just as much as they need good
technologists.

------
dominotw
>After some more standard interview prep and a short interview at Crowdcube a
few days later accompanied by my newly filled little black book I got taken on
for the job.

Meanwhile, I am being humiliated by stupid whiteboard interviews .

I really need to work on my (non existent ) people skills.

~~~
marodox
> Meanwhile, I am being humiliated by stupid whiteboard interviews .

I just went through my most humiliating whiteboard interview last week. Never
knew how bad it could get until that...

~~~
dominotw
I've come to a realization that no matter how much we complain about it, there
is no way around it.

No matter how experienced you are you have to face this everytime you change
jobs.

