
Ants are as Effective as Pesticides - dave446
http://scitech.au.dk/en/roemer/5-2015/ants-are-as-effective-as-pesticides/
======
Tloewald
I think that in general we need to see ourselves as part of an ecosystem
rather absence of one -- eg rather than try to kill all the "bugs" in our
homes, figure out which ones might be beneficial.

It's taken a long time for us to take this approach to intestinal flora and
skin bacteria -- we need to think this way about everything.

~~~
WalterBright
I once had an infestation of spiders. I called the exterminator, who said I
didn't have a spider problem. I had an ant problem - the spiders were there
eating the ants. Dealing with the ants took care of the spider problem.

There's a great book on this kind of thing: "Common Sense Pest Control".

~~~
ChuckMcM
One of my current side projects is to connect a pair of galvos, a 3 watt IR
laser diode, and openCV to run when I'm not there calling it "High Tech Pest
Control with Photons" :-)

We tend to get Argentine ants in the Bay Area and they do attract spiders, but
they also keep down the cockroach population. So there are arguments for and
against keeping them.

~~~
DennisP
Don't listen to the naysayers. Bill Gates is actually funding technology that
kills mosquitos with lasers.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosquito_laser](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosquito_laser)

~~~
unprepare
Isn't this technology owned by Intellectual Ventures - the patent troll run by
Nathan Myhrvold?

Doesn't it seem more likely they developed and patented this and are waiting
for someone else to infringe on their patent, rather than them ever actually
creating a product?

This is a perfect example of how broken our patent system is. We have a
technology that absolutely has demand, but it will never be produced because
it's more profitable to abuse our patent system in the courts than it is to
actually manufacture and sell a product.

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gnufrra
Biological pest control is not a silver bullet. We have a history littered
with biological pest control disasters. These studies need to take into
account effect on native biodiversity. For example Hawaii introduce mongoose
to control rats as it turn out they will kill native birds more than the rats.

~~~
ggchappell
Just a wee bit off-topic, but:

The situation with the native species of Hawaii is actually much worse than
most people are aware -- even people who live in Hawaii. I read somewhere[1]
that, if you walk around a typical coastal town in Hawaii, and look at the
lawns & gardens & parks, and watch the birds & whatnot, that you will
generally not see _any native species at all_. The ones big enough to see are
all confined to the interior.

EDIT. And, by the way, the rats weren't native, either. Hawaii has exactly two
native mammals: the Hawaiian Hoary Bat and the Hawaiian Monk Seal.

[1] I think it was in _Remains of a Rainbow_ , by D. Liittschwager & S.
Middleton.
[https://amazon.com/dp/0792264126/](https://amazon.com/dp/0792264126/)

~~~
lutorm
It seems defining what "native" means on Hawaii is a bit sketchy. Clearly _no_
animals were on the islands when they first were created, so everything is
more or less "invasive".

Speaking of ants that live in trees, the Big Island is being overrun by the
Little Fire Ant, which has already spread across much of the rainy side. I'm
sure it protects the trees from pests, too, but in this case that
unfortunately also includes humans. They have a nasty bite, and are very hard
to control, which is making farming in infested areas hell.
[http://littlefireants.com/](http://littlefireants.com/)

~~~
oh_sigh
They are native, because they existed in no other place than Hawaii. The
species literally did not exist until Hawaii made it so. The first species to
come to Hawaii were invasive.

~~~
MichaelGG
So if I introduce some animal to Hawaii, then wait until they speciate, then
they're native? I suppose that works.

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yellowapple
As someone who grew up raising fruit trees: ants _are_ the pests, since (at
least the Argentine ones that I normally deal with) they not only farm aphids
and such, but also frequently are the ones actually eating produce. Granted,
in my particular case I didn't _really_ care, since a couple ant-holes don't
really hurt anything if you're gonna cut up the fruit for a pie or something
anyway (just wash 'em real good first), but it's kind of hard to sell fruit to
the general public when said fruit has obviously been eaten at by six-legged
hive-minded vermin.

Ants are cool and all, but they're also jerks, and I find much satisfaction in
the latest trend of pouring molten metal into anthills to make artwork.

------
DonGateley
I ceased killing invasive ants with borax, a substance taken back to the hive
to destroy it, when during one such defense I saw them divert from the track I
was poisoning to attack newly hatched termites that were emerging from under
an appliance. They were incredibly effective. They also raid termite colonies
and carry away the eggs. I switched to a lemon oil based repellent applied
locally as needed.

~~~
lutorm
At least here in Hawaii, predation by ants apparently is not effective at
preventing termite infestations. They eat them, yeah, but they don't actually
significantly affect the nests, according to what I've heard at least.

~~~
DonGateley
I'd bet it depends on the kind of ant and the kind of termite. I'm in Northern
Ca and haven't seen trace of a termite since I stopped killing the ant
colonies.

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11thEarlOfMar
> One three-year study in Australia recorded cashew yields 49% higher in plots
> patrolled by ants compared with those protected by chemicals. Nut quality
> was higher too, so net income was 71% higher with ants than with chemicals.

With results like these, there must be some reason why this was not discovered
and put to widespread use already. What are is down side? Containment? How to
keep them from spreading to unwanted areas, like the farm house?

~~~
NeutronBoy
At least in Australia, the existing equivalent case study is Cane Toads, which
didn't turn out so well. I can understand why people may be hesitant to try
with ants.

~~~
MaysonL
Not to speak of rabbits…

~~~
lingben
And camels

~~~
nabeshima
And foxes

~~~
EpiMath
And bumblebees

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theophrastus
i always thought that domesticating insects would be a great boon for
humanity. and/or, why did we stop at honeybees and silk-worms? termites for
bio-reclamation, locusts for invasive plant control, dragonflies for
extermination of mosquitoes, cockroaches for subterranean telemetry..
(probably avoiding preying-mantises out of a sense of 'what could possibly go
wrong?')

~~~
tuxidomasx
Not to mention using insects as food sources-- grasshoppers, crickets, worms,
etc. Excellent sources for protein and super efficient to raise pound-for-
pound.

I guess the biggest obstacles are the cultural ones.

~~~
SixSigma
Edward O Wilson also suggested farming reptiles for meat in his famous book
"Biodiversity"

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._O._Wilson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._O._Wilson)

------
mattraibert
Maybe a bit off topic but reading this brought me back to the early nineties
when I first got a copy of SimAnt. The instruction manual was filled with
information about ants. I remember staying up all night reading about these
amazing creatures!

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efnx
Unless you have an aphid infestation. Here in Northern California ants farm
aphids and are damn good at it. Your plants will have aphids all over them.

~~~
mikeytown2
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpJibC5iA0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpJibC5iA0)
\- A video showing the relationship between ants and aphids. The ants protect
the aphids on the plant from a number of predators and in return the aphids
provide the ants with food in the form of honeydew.

~~~
ultimape
Interestingly, there are some studies that suggest the aphids secrete the
honeydew as a response to high lady-bug populations. In nature, it's hard to
tell who is taking advantage of who.

I <3 ants:
[https://twitter.com/ultimape/status/586512292403093505](https://twitter.com/ultimape/status/586512292403093505)

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malyk
In my backyard garden the argentine ants farm aphids and red scale (at least)
on my plants. So...don't use argentine ants. They are jerks!

~~~
tsotha
That was my experience. If you don't use pesticides spiders and ladybird
beetles will come along and eat the aphids... unless the ants are protecting
them. I ended up having to put tanglefoot around the base of all my trees.

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mhartl
Such stories of ecologically friendly pest control are hard to resist, but
unfortunately the history of introducing species A to control species B is
littered with cautionary tales.

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ZoeZoeBee
This is certainly worth a look in places like Florida and California. I assume
there are hurdles to importing these into the foreign countries like the US,
not to mention the lobbying Monsanto will surely be doing to prevent lost
revenue. It turns out the Chinese have used these effectively for over a
thousand years,
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weaver_ant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weaver_ant)

~~~
colwem
The specific hurdle mentioned in the article is that they only live in the
tropics. However they do mention research looking at using wood ants to
protect Maize or to control winter moths in temperate regions.

~~~
ZoeZoeBee
Yeah, I said Florida and California....

Anyways the weaver Ant is endemic to places that are not just the tropics,
they've been used on citrus plants in China since 400 AD
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weaver_ant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weaver_ant)

~~~
davidw
Florida, maybe. California isn't all that 'tropical' in terms of its climate -
it's mostly way too dry for that, and the wet portions along the north coast
are too cold to be tropical.

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Pephers
Yes, please! What really concerns me the most about conventional farming is
the tendency to control, tame, and in result fight nature (with chemicals),
rather than cooperate. This is of course a consequence of large monotonous
fields with a single crop, which provides habitat for diseases and pests in
very specific niches but leaves out the natural predators (such as ants in
this example).

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frobozz
The opposite is true in the case of aphids, which are pretty serious
destroyers of crop-yielding plants.

Some ants farm aphids for their honeydew. Rather than destroying them, they
encourage their population on the growing-tips of plants. If you introduce
aphid-eating insects, such as ladybirds or lacewings, the ants will fight off
the attackers.

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mapmap
This is not true in all cases. On citrus trees I've seen ants "farm" aphids
and scales by protecting them from their natural enemies and eating their
excreted nectar. Left alone this combo can easily kill a small citrus tree.

~~~
reitanqild
First real plum season this year after I killed off a ant colony farming
aphids under my plum tree. :-)

Edit: Used boiling water to take out the nest, then sprinkled a mix of potato
starch with fine ground sugar around. I don't want to much poison on and
around my fruit trees.

And yes: up to 6 ladybugs had a party in that tree for three consecutive days.
I read somewhere that each of them can munch up to 100 aphids a day so I guess
there was quite a few to start with.

~~~
smcl
What was the potato starch and ground sugar for?

~~~
reitanqild
Supposedly it kills ants but I only have one sample so it might just be an old
wives tale.

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veddox
Very interesting approach! Ants are fascinating creatures, I used to spend
hours as a kid watching them build their nests or raid a termite colony...

And although I agree with many of the other posters here that one has to be
extremely careful with biological pest control when using imported species, I
still think that on the whole this approach is definitely better than
poisoning the ecosystem with chemicals. Of course one has to do one's homework
first, thoroughly, to avoid "Hawaiian mongoose disasters". But after that has
been done, let's go for it!

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benfrederickson
Not only can ants be used as pesticide - in some cases they also act as a
herbicide and kill weeds and other plants that compete with their host tree:
[http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v437/n7058/full/437495a...](http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v437/n7058/full/437495a.html)
. Probably not useful for farming, but still cool.

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fallingmeat
Ants are also annoying. Come to Oakland and experience the 'pesticides' for
yourself!

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sliken
I'd like the same thing for homes. I'd happily buy a bag of sugar occasionally
to be guaranteed to never have termites.

~~~
DonGateley
I think they are just as attracted to the termites themselves. They love the
eggs.

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mhartl
You want ants? Because this is how you get ants.

