
Man Who Hired Deadly Swatting Gets 15 Months - hsnewman
https://krebsonsecurity.com/2019/09/man-who-hired-deadly-swatting-gets-15-months/
======
makecheck
_Given the way SWAT currently seems to work_ , you should _know_ that a fake
SWAT call is going to cause serious harm up to and including death, in which
case 15 months is far too little. It is up there with “lock someone in a cage
with a lion”; sure, technically _you_ didn’t kill them but you knew they would
die because of your actions so what is the difference?

Also, let us take a serious look at _every other charge in existence_ in cases
like this. If 15 months is the sentence for something resulting in death,
_every other lesser offence should be capped at 15 months_. Illegally voted?
Caught with drugs? Why are _those_ things “5 years” then?

Finally, clearly SWAT itself needs reform. If you’re going to pack a dozen
armed guys in a truck and drive over to somebody’s house to blast down the
door, YOU NEED a system of double-checks and triple-checks to _assess_ the
damned situation first! Given such checks, it should be literally impossible
to assault someone that is not actually a threat.

~~~
me_me_me
Being devils advocate here.

> it should be literally impossible to assault someone that is not actually a
> threat.

The swatting person usually claims that there is armed person with intent to
kill. The SWAT guys come in quick and into potentially very serious situation
with no time for 'surveillance'.

But that's not really all that strong of argument. edit: layout

------
geddy
This doesn't feel like enough to discourage others from doing this, so what's
even the point? Accessory to murder is 15 months now? Someone died from this!
Also, what about the cop who shot him?

~~~
leftyted
It does to me.

The person who made the call was sentenced to _twenty years_. The person who
got 15 months is the one who paid the other person to make the call, not the
person who made the call.

~~~
rwmurrayVT
He didn't pay him. The guy did it for free because the kid didn't believe
anything would happen. He said he loves to do it for free when people don't
believe anything will happen.

The guy got 20 years. When he was in the temporary holding jail he gained
access to the internet and was still tweeting about swatting people. This was
BEFORE his sentencing. Absolutely moronic and showed zero remorse.

------
dsr_
Remind me what the sentence was for the police officer in Wichita who murdered
Andrew Finch?

When the police are trained to de-escalate first instead of shoot first,
swatting will stop.

~~~
davidw
There's tons of room to improve the police. However, in a country with so many
weapons, they're always going to be a bit more quick to fire due to a fear for
their own safety.

You can downvote all you want, but the statistics are that police are much
more likely to face someone with a weapon in the US.

~~~
dlphn___xyz
should the state implement mental health screening for police officers? if a
cop has this much fear and anxiety dealing with civilians they should consider
another profession (let alone carry a weapon).

~~~
fucking_tragedy
> _should the state implement mental health screening for police officers?_

Yes, for a very good reason. Currently, incentives are such that police are
rewarded with long careers and large pensions for avoiding mental healthcare.

Despite having excellent access to healthcare, police notoriously avoid
accessing any type of mental health resources. They're afraid that they'll
lose their jobs for it, which makes sense.

A cop's testimony is pivotal to most criminal cases, and if it is called into
question because of the cop's mental health status, that can be a liability.
Many places have strict policies concerning mental health and policing, as
well.

It's absolutely necessary that the state implements mental health screening
for police officers, because they refuse to implement it themselves.

------
psychometry
Great. When do we lock up the cop who shot an innocent, unarmed man?

~~~
Bootwizard
Which cop?

~~~
rwmurrayVT
We don't know because they won't release his name now that they declined to
press charges!

Evidently after they declined to release his name he testified in the case.
Name below is correct. Justin Rapp. Coincidentally, there's a videographer in
the search results for the name. The blurb below the URL says "About Me Justin
Rapp 2019-05-16T13:29:49-07:00. BORN TO SHOOT THE WORLD AROUND ME" Bad luck
there bud...

------
_edo
The anti-cop sentiment in this thread is disturbing.

I live in a bad neighborhood where gunshots are common. Since I've lived here
there have probably been dozens of homicides within a .5 mile radius. Living
here has changed my perception of officer involved shootings.

People don't realize how quickly things go from a slightly weird situation to
bullets in the air. It goes from somebody standing funny, maybe they have a
hand behind their back or they're holding a towel in a weird way, then
bullets. Fast. A quarter of a second separates "that's weird" from "oh no
somebody's shooting."

If you've ever dropped your phone and had to figure out what to do before it
hits the ground that's about as much time as police have to make these life-
and-death decisions.

In this particular situation, the police believed they were arriving to a
hostage situation where somebody had already been killed.

What happened is tragic. If you've ever dug into this story it's
heartbreaking. At the same time I don't think the anger at police lines up
with what happened here at all.

~~~
stefan_
He was standing in the door blinded by a massive light while a bunch of police
and SWAT were taking cover behind cars and trees. He could not have hit anyone
with any gun in the world.

~~~
_edo
There was no SWAT, only police.

Pointing a gun is a deadly threat and it's hard to believe (assuming this was
a real hostage situation) he couldn't make out even one outline of a human to
take aim at.

The police thought they were at the scene of a murder/hostage situation. They
weren't just protecting their own lives, they were there to protect the life
of the hostage from somebody who they believed had committed murder just
minutes before.

Given ten minutes to think about the situation maybe the officer who fired the
shot would take a different course of action. But he didn't have ten minutes,
he had half a second.

------
hi41
The victim is a father of two. Oh my God. What a terrible tragedy.

------
seamyb88
This is a lot of America's problems in one story.

------
mgraczyk
Another noteworthy but unmentioned fact is that the victim's niece recently
committed suicide, an event which the family claims was caused by her
witnessing the shooting.

~~~
Miner49er
More context: she had been living with the victim since 2002. So they likely
knew each other well at least.

------
rwmurrayVT
12 months 3 weeks after good time and probably 2-4 months in a halfway house.
If he's been without bail then he will get time served and go from there.
Otherwise he'll be out in less than a year from when he self-surrenders to
federal prison.

~~~
jacobush
That part is actually a good thing, you should encourage things that reduces
recidivism.

Edit: I meant getting out before the full sentence is served, is a good thing.
(I don't know _anything_ about federal halfway houses.)

~~~
rwmurrayVT
I am in a federal halfway house. Nothing about federal prison reduces
recidivism.

------
kempbellt
Does anyone have any suggestions for how we should actually handle situations
like these?

Kids playing video games and getting very angry at other players online, is
going to happen. Is there something that can be done at this level?

I remember hearing things back in my high-school COD days. Kids are brutal,
and terrible at coping with their emotions. Saying things like "I'll stab you!
You ....", at the drop of a hat. I always wrote off these types of threats as
a form of venting. But then again, I never shared any personal information
with people online. So I wasn't worried.

Swatting... This has been going on for quite some time now. Maybe we can start
here? Train responders to be aware of these potential scenarios - that the
whole thing _could be_ BS, and you should approach the situation open-
mindedly, rather than expecting a battle. De-escalation training, etc. Why are
police not showing up and assessing the situation first hand these days?
Before taking a 911 caller's word as gospel. Assess the situation, on-site.

Giving some kid more prison time will not dissuade others. There's a lot of
research done to show that negative reinforcement like this doesn't work.

~~~
tastroder
> Does anyone have any suggestions for how we should actually handle
> situations like these?

Mandatory country wide minimal training standards for all LEOs, automatic
investigation when a shot is fired, demilitarization, getting rid of trigger
happy or clearly racist officers, lowering qualified immunity to a remotely
sensible level, it's not like there wouldn't be approaches that work in other
countries. Oh and of course doing something about America's gun culture on the
other side would be another good start but that's never going to happen
either.

The best response in the US so far seems to be registering on potential
victims lists like in Seattle ([https://www.wired.com/story/how-to-stop-
swatting-before-it-h...](https://www.wired.com/story/how-to-stop-swatting-
before-it-happens-seattle/) \- HN discussions exist if you're interested).

~~~
thecyborganizer
The victim list is a good idea, but it wouldn't have prevented this shooting -
the victim in this case was simply the hapless individual living at the former
address of the intended target (who gave that address to the swatter).

The victim list did recently prevent the attempted swatting of Seattle author
Ijeoma Oluo: [https://www.newsweek.com/author-so-you-want-talk-about-
race-...](https://www.newsweek.com/author-so-you-want-talk-about-race-
targeted-swatting-hoax-white-supremacists-1454644)

~~~
tastroder
Sure, I didn't want to imply that the list itself is a bad idea, it's surely a
necessity that works. The "best response" part was merely to point out that
more substantial preventative actions, like better training, would be
preferrable in my view to shift the paradigm to a world where "swatting" isn't
a realistic thing in the first place.

------
mnm1
I expect cops to not shoot unarmed, innocent men but clearly that's too much
to expect and I live in a fantasy world. How come this doesn't happen in other
countries despite their police also carrying guns? Are US police that evil?
Stupid? Scared? Scum? Or all of the above? Because there is no excuse for this
officer doing what he did nor for the prosecutor not prosecuting. This is what
we call justice in America?

~~~
marcosdumay
This happens in every country. Its rate varies.

~~~
mnm1
Yeah but the rate is what matters. The US kills more people in days than some
other countries do in years. [https://www.theguardian.com/us-
news/2015/jun/09/the-counted-...](https://www.theguardian.com/us-
news/2015/jun/09/the-counted-police-killings-us-vs-other-countries)

------
dsfyu404ed
And the cop who shot a man who was no threat gets what? At the very, very
least it's a gross failure to do his job the way he's paid to do it and his
employment should be up for review.

Don't get me wrong, swatting is bad for a bunch of obvious reasons and the
swatter is the one with the malicious intent here but if we had a more
professional police force (you'd think the swat team, supposedly the most
highly trained cops, would have a little more restraint with the trigger
finger) it would end this way a lot less often. Cops showing up expecting
something where there is nothing should not result in anybody dying, it should
result in confused cops and little more. This is very much a two part problem.
If the cops didn't have an itchy trigger finger swatting wouldn't lead to
outcomes like this.

~~~
almost_usual
I had a friend whose dad took a shotgun blast to the face entering a home
serving a search warrant. It's not uncommon. The officer is acting on the
facts that are presented to them. This isn't a domestic violence call or an
assault call. It's a call instructing the police that someone is armed and a
threat to those around them.

~~~
webkike
Sure, but it seems weird to prioritize the life of the police officer over the
people they are sworn to protect. Policing is inherently dangerous. Sitting at
home playing video games should not

~~~
almost_usual
>Sure, but it seems weird to prioritize the life of the police officer over
the people they are sworn to protect.

If the officer doesn't engage out of caution and an innocent person in the
residence (non officer) dies is that still ok?

~~~
webkike
How often does that happen? I can make the same argument about killing
literally anyone because they might kill other people.

~~~
almost_usual
>I can make the same argument about killing literally anyone because they
might kill other people.

This feels like a slippery slope fallacy.

~~~
webkike
That’s my point

