
Japan orders universities to end education in social sciences, humanities, law - adventured
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-09-20/japan-dumbs-down-its-universities-at-the-wrong-time
======
hkmurakami
It has always been said that in Japan, "it is hard to get into college, and
easy to graduate". By contrast, US universities are characterized by the
Japanese as easy to get in, hard to graduate.

The accuracy of above statements aside, it is true that generally speaking,
Japanese students study much much harder in High School than in College,
because the College you get into traditionally determines much of the rest of
your life. So the stereotype is that students cram to get into great schools,
then party for 4 years because their grades don't matter in landing
employment.

Within this general stereotype, there is a further stereotype that the
students in science and engineering slave away in the labs while the
humanities students have a jolly good time in the social culture group
"circles".

Given the hierarchy of stereotypes above, it isn't a big surprise to me if the
humanities are seen by some as "glut" that can be cut, since government is
subsidizing student partying. But it's surprising since the lawmakers should
predominantly be from these exact programs being cut.

~~~
ekianjo
> It has always been said that in Japan, "it is hard to get into college, and
> easy to graduate". By contrast, US universities are characterized by the
> Japanese as easy to get in, hard to graduate.

I can confirm that it is the case. Once you get it, it's like vacation. 20
hours max of classes per week, no homework, no practicals, it's relax time and
that's when they take a side job to make money since they have so much free
time.

Japan's Universities level compared to how much they cost is completely
laughable, The whole education is done by private companies once the new
graduates enter the workforce, since they know close to nothing.

~~~
stdbrouw
> Once you get it, it's like vacation. 20 hours max of classes per week, no
> homework, no practicals

When I studied philosophy here in Belgium, I attended about 10 hours of
classes a week on average, and while we did have a whole bunch of papers to
write every semester, overall it wasn't particularly taxing. But having a
light course load allowed me to dive much more deeply into topics of interest,
from the ancient sophists to the history of economics, stuff that was never
going to get me better grades but that was fascinating in its own right. I
also spent a lot of time at the student newspaper learning how to code, how to
do print design, how to write and at the end how to manage a newsroom.

Now, more than five years later I'm back in school in an intensive statistics
program, and while it's much more challenging than philosophy was, that
doesn't necessarily make it better: I'm building up a huge list of "things to
study after I graduate because I don't have time now" and even if I wanted to
participate in e.g. the student council, I don't know where I would find the
energy.

If universities are supposed to educate us to become well-rounded individuals,
pushing your students to the limit so there isn't time for anything else is
not necessarily such a great strategy.

I'm fully aware many people would just use any free time you give them to
party. But that's part of what makes this so sad. If people never have to
learn how to meaningfully organize their lives outside of school, there's a
good chance they still won't know how to once they've got a job.

~~~
ekianjo
My problem is not with the hours of work you have to put it, but when you get
a degree in X or Y you are expected to know certain things, and there's a
certain amount of work and experience you need to have developed by the time
you get your degree.

I just don't see how Japanese could be way more efficient than Westerners who
put 50-60 hours per week (speaking from my experience) and get to the same
level in the end. And there is no surprise, they don't. They clearly don't
have the level to compete at the University level, both in experience as well
as general knowledge.

And that's a shame, because the University should be about the subject you are
the most interested to study, and therefore there should be no restraint as to
how much you would be willing to learn, instead of having so few hours per
week.

In the end, the cost is on society as companies waste a year or more to
educate new graduates to make them into productive employees.

------
Animats
I have some doubts about the validity of this report. Bloomberg got it from
Time's education blog, which apparently got it from The Times of Higher
Education (a blog), which claims it got it from Yomiuri Shimbun, one of
Japan's major newspapers.

But searching The Japan News[1], which is Yomiuri Shimbun's English-language
site, there's nothing on this. The only recent reference to Education Minister
Hakuban Shimomura is about a test-cheating scandal.

[1] [http://the-japan-news.com/news/search](http://the-japan-
news.com/news/search)

~~~
hkmurakami
Here's the source (Japanese):

[http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/kyoiku/news/20150824-OYT8T50033.htm...](http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/kyoiku/news/20150824-OYT8T50033.html)

This has a scan of the paper clipping:

[http://matome.naver.jp/odai/2143619433341443601](http://matome.naver.jp/odai/2143619433341443601)

------
paulojreis
Yeah, lovely - I can't wait to see this world where everybody's an engineer...

We're already paying the price of producing engineering-driven business and
products en masse- check e.g. the Internet of Things irrelevance and lack of
real known use-cases. When the boom of all-things-IT end, we will regret not
being user and customer driven. And we will definitely regret ignoring the
guys who know (knew?) something about being human.

~~~
emp_zealoth
I'd hardly call IoT engineer driven

It's VC money spawning this nonsense,followed by "design" (look fancy,do
nothing)

~~~
paulojreis
You're probably right regarding the VC part. I should have said "technology-
driven", actually.

------
jkot
This is just public schools, those subjects can be still studied at private
schools.

Czech Republic has similar system. Education is free, but number of places in
public university is set by number of jobs available. We have lot of engineers
and doctors, a bit less lawyers and very few artists and sociologists. As a
side effect those become elite subjects with really bright students.

~~~
guard-of-terra
> with really bright students

My misanthropic self suggests they're more likely really well-connected.

~~~
emp_zealoth
The good thing about post-commie unis is that we have entrance exams,period.

Not a fuzzy opaque admission system from UK/US where they do 'hire talks' And
no grade curving nonsense

You study,you score points and you either get in or not. The only way money
can help is by hiring extra tutors to prepare you for exams - but a lot of my
classmates at top polish polytechnic were poor as fuck,just brilliant.

The admission system works (the unis themselves have a lot of issues though)

~~~
orf
> Not a fuzzy opaque admission system from UK/US where they do 'hire talks'
> And no grade curving nonsense

We don't do 'hire talks', you get in based on your grades and essentially a
letter you write about yourself and your interests. The latter being important
because there is more to you as a person than your UCAS points.

~~~
jazzyk
You have not applied to college recently, have you?

The times when colleges applied reason/merit to the admission process are long
gone. These days they are racketeering, politically-correct, quota-driven
businesses where educational excellence is less and less important.

Other "important" factors which impact your admission chances are:

\- your race (Asians usually discriminated against),

\- your gender (both females and males can be discriminated),

\- your state of residence (quotas for local residents),

\- your country of residence (overseas students typically are rich and parents
pay full tuition),

\- your athletic prowess in a particular sport (if you are a semi-pro, you are
golden).

Harvard does not make it a secret that a significant number (30%, I think) of
slots is reserved for "legacies" and athletes. The rest are very good students
(who managed to impress the admissions with some unusual after school
activities), who make up for the legacies/athletes.

------
sandworm101
No teaching law? Scream about lawyers if you want, but they serve a purpose.
Nobody wants to live in a society without laws. Equally, a society with laws
but without people expert in that law cannot expect to follow it. Would anyone
want their case heard by someone who hasn't studied? Shall we hand complex
rules of evidence to laypersons? The result would be unpredictability,
commercial chaos.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
What this will do is create a shortage of lawyers, making access to justice
expensive.

Which, if you think about it, is exactly what a conservative government would
like. It's less people able to bring legal challenges against them, and less
people who might defend 'criminals'.

~~~
kristofferR
It sort of makes sense for Japan, as defence lawyers aren't able to provide
any chance of justice anyway...

99% of those arrested in Japan are convicted:
[http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/29/abandon-
hop...](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/29/abandon-hope-all-ye-
tried-in-japan.html)

~~~
sandworm101
The US conviction rate is upwards of 90% in many areas, especially federal
cases. Given how eagerly US police arrest at the drop of a hat, and how
hesitant the Japanese are about arrests, their respective conviction rates
would seem comparable.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
Comparing Japan to the US makes Japan not look so bad, but only because the US
is also quite bad.

------
Daishiman
Whenever I see this happening I find it hard to not think up of unlikely but
satisfactory conspiracies where this is all a plot to make the educated middle
class less aware of social issues and the similarities in the themes of human
struggle of all societies.

In a context where Japan's conservative government seems to be contemplating
future conflict with its neighbors as a more likely outcome, it would help to
shield the populance from the fact that their "enemies" are human too.

Mind you, this isn't just about the Japanese conservative government, but I
just can't see what purpose this could possibly ever serve.

~~~
guard-of-terra
Why would Japan seriously conflict with neighbors? It has shrinking population
and this is going to get worse. Can't sacrifice people, can't make use of what
you conquer.

Of course we can imagine drone wars but what's the point exactly?

~~~
PhasmaFelis
Areas that experience significant population loss due to war or disaster often
have baby booms afterwards, and wind up with more people than they started
within a very few decades. Hey, maybe that's the plan! Kill a bunch of
citizens in foreign wars, and the survivors will surely breed a strong new
generation!

~~~
ekianjo
Yeah,looks like you don't remember that Japan was razed to ground almost
everywhere in the last war they fought. It did not work too well for them.

~~~
PhasmaFelis
Yeah, but check out those population numbers! 1940: 73 million. 1945: 72
million. 1950: _83 million._ A runaway success, for an extremely specific
definition of success!

(Seriously though, I thought it was pretty clear that I was joking when I
suggested war as a practical solution for falling population. Should I have
used more exclamation points?)

~~~
ekianjo
I know you were joking, sadly there are many people who are often saying
seriously "we'd need a good old war to get things rebooted again".

------
ekianjo
>In other words, it will need a bunch of social science and humanities
students.

Hah! Japan has those students for the past 25 years and nothing great came out
of it. I don't think the government should eliminate such disciplines, but
trying to make it seem like they are essential to run your Economy is a very
shallow promise.

Plus, I wonder what they teach in Economics in Japan apart from the government
love for Stimulus, which is all what politicians in Japan seem to do no matter
from which party they come from.

~~~
jevgeni
Because if the Silicon Valley has taught anyone anything, is that it doesn't
matter how well you manage a company as long as it's full of engineers. /s

------
ZenoArrow
Sharing this video here is like pissing in the wind (I doubt there's many
people from Japan here), but here's something for the rest of us to
consider... [http://youtu.be/4D0fLisyjBY](http://youtu.be/4D0fLisyjBY)

When will we learn that science and technology cannot solve all our problems
and apply this knowledge practically? Isn't the pace of technological change
already too fast for our culture to keep up with? Culture should be in the
driving seat, otherwise you get technology for technology's sake (making
things because we can, regardless of the plausible consequences).

~~~
michaelbuddy
Japan has culture and aesthetic handled. Why does everyone think that
humanities college coursework somehow endows students with something exclusive
and rose colored. Humanities courses are enjoyable but too subjective and
liberal. Sociology in the U.S. is a joke. Good riddance. Learning a craft is
better guidance towards understanding human experience. Problem solving in a
workshop is what the soul needs.

~~~
ZenoArrow
"Japan has culture and aesthetic handled."

Really? I enjoy some culture from Japan, but I wouldn't say they've got
everything sorted. Work culture, social isolation, fear of failure, suicide,
rapidly declining population all appear to be issues.

------
danmaz74
I could understand a move to somehow limit the number of students in some
fields where (if) the number of people with degrees there is too high for the
jobs market. But an order to "end education" in those fields is just retarded.

~~~
hkmurakami
This is only public (national) universities, of which there are only 26.

And it is in fact true that there are too many grads in those areas.

------
musername
guess they have enough burger flippers and taxi drivers? /s

------
endzone
what really is the value of studying these subjects at undergraduate level? i
don't think i've ever seen a persuasive argument in favour

------
nwatson
When you corrupt society and industry with social sciences and arts you
eventually come to egg girls
([https://www.google.com/search?q=egg+girls&prmd=visn&source=l...](https://www.google.com/search?q=egg+girls&prmd=visn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAmoVChMIxuuVz4eKyAIVSjg-
Ch1F-grT#tbm=isch&q=egg+girls+Japanese)), tamagotchi, and hikikomori
([https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori)
), and lots of bad comics.

~~~
Daishiman
Nice bit of cultural fascism there. They should go a step further and start
banning the bad comics. I heard they burn very well.

~~~
nwatson
I can't take HN very seriously when people take my comment at face value.

~~~
Daishiman
Did you even read the comment on the original post? It's impossible to tell
the real trolls from the small but vocal minority of people who really _do_
believe the humanities are a bastion of the liberal elite and Illuminati.

Not to mention that there is a _huge_ amount of disdain for the humanities in
some hardcore engineering circles.

