
Introducing Apple Music - brbcoding
http://www.apple.com/live/2015-june-event/215baa98-f26b-4a74-8f50-bdfb062ea294/
======
mercer
I don't quite understand why they put so much emphasis on 24/7 radio. First, I
knew few (younger) people who listen to radio. Second, it's technically not
that impressive.

But most importantly: music is very divisive and tastes differ greatly. Apple
has usually done a great job to keep their image as neutral as possible.
There's a reason why the types of artists they generally associate with are
rather inoffensive (Coldplay, The Beatles) or at worst found annoying (U2, or
rather Bono).

So who gets excited about such a radio station?

(I just saw Drake get on stage, which actually illustrates this. He's neutral
enough to not offend, but because it's _music_ , I imagine a collective groan
from pretty much all of my friends.)

To be clear, it's kind of a _cute_ idea, but why emphasize it so much?

~~~
austenallred
I would kill to be able to go to the party Spotify will undoubtedly throw
tonight.

There wasn't one thing in the entire presentation that was even intriguing,
let alone in innovative. The reason I loved my iPod is because I didn't _have_
to listen to the radio. And now Apple is making that the killer feature?
_RADIO?_ Like it's freaking 2002?

Other than that and artist communication (which I would _maybe_ care about for
_one_ artist), Apple Music is Spotify. Their solution for finding what you
want to listen to? "I like rock and alternative" (whatever that means). This
has been done a dozen times, and rarely well.

Spotify has been iterating exact same concept for years and has all of my
friends listening to it, as well as all of my playlists. People tell me Rdio
is similar, but I've never had reason to use it. The only way Apple wins is if
the power of something being the Apple default is truly that strong. Having
Siri integration is literally the only thing that Apple has a leg up on any of
the other music services on.

And then they call it "revolutionary" and throw it in a "ONE MORE THING!"
slot? That's pretty bad. And I'm an Apple fanboy.

~~~
JonFish85
"The only way this wins is if the power of something being the Apple default
is truly that strong."

For something like this, yeah, Apple default is probably that strong.
Considering that it'll button right into all of their hardware (laptop, iPad,
iPhone), I could see it being a fairly significant thing for them. It's one
less app to have to use, one less payment interface to deal with, and
integrate with whatever music the user already has.

Not to mention that Apple probably has a lot more clout in the bargaining
arena with the record labels than Spotify does, and a LOT more cash to throw
around.

~~~
dperfect
I've been an avid Rhapsody user since the early days. One thing that still
annoys me about Rhapsody on iOS devices is that if the app has been closed or
backgrounded (not playing music) for long enough, hitting the "play" button in
control center (or bluetooth devices) often goes back to playing from iTunes -
which I don't use.

The ideal solution would be Apple fixing that - allowing for a user-defined
default player. I'm sad to say it, but if that doesn't become a reality, I may
be tempted to switch to Apple's streaming service for that one reason alone.

~~~
NathanKP
That's the exact reason they designed it that way.

Apple is intended to be a walled garden rather than a true equal platform for
the app devs. As much as I like Apple hardware I hate their mobile OS because
of this approach of building special integrations for their built in apps that
you can't even remove, while denying other app devs access to the full range
of device integration, except if you go through their limited API's.

------
seivan
Looking forward to ditching Spotify. Stopped paying once they removed Cmd-F
filtering and the app started to lag on my 2014 Macbook Pro (with dedicated
GPU).

Also, I agree with the keynote speakers, Spotify "Radio" never worked for me.
Always got repeated songs or songs I hated.

I wanted automated "thumbs up" if I finished a song, or "thumbs down" if I
skipped it, without having to worry about repeated songs.

And a million of other complaints.

~~~
ryanSrich
I'm so glad I finally have an alternative to Spotify. They removed staring,
apps, and filtering. Their radio is abysmal (almost as bad as Pandora).

What I'd really like to see is a radio feature that plays songs that sound
like the song you requested. What all these algorithms seem todo is play songs
that other people listened to after or before the song you requested. Or they
just play something in the same genre. Genres are kind of dead now, so it
doesn't make sense to recommend songs this way. Why not suggest songs with
similar guitar riffs? Why not suggest songs with artists that have similar
voices?

~~~
jessriedel
> What I'd really like to see is a radio feature that plays songs that sound
> like the song you requested.

Isn't this exactly what Pandora does?

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_Genome_Project](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_Genome_Project)

~~~
ryanSrich
That's what they advertise but based on my experience (I used Pandora for
years in college) it's quite a ways off.

~~~
jessriedel
OK but you said

> What all these algorithms seem todo is play songs that other people listened
> to after or before the song you requested. Or they just play something in
> the same genre.

and I am pretty sure that, under the hood, this is _not_ what they are doing.
They really are using individual attributes about the song (e.g., tenor
vocalist, minimalism, heavy distortion, etc.) to try and find something that
sounds the same.

So I think your real complaint is "I don't think the algorithms are good
enough yet, even though they are trying to do exactly what I want".

------
stock_toaster
I found this entire part of the presentation a combination of boring and
awkward. Honestly couldn't care less about it.

I did find it funny when Iovine said "revolutionary" though, and a few in the
crowd seemed to chuckle/laugh, and he appeared a bit confused.

~~~
cjensen
It was a very un-Apple-like presentation. Apple has a reputation for
rehearsing presentations many times. The presentations are critiqued in order
to make sure they are clear and to the point.

These presenters didn't fit the usual model. They acted like hadn't rehearsed
much (Iovine in particular). It was wildly unclear what, exactly, they were
talking about. Lots of abstract hand-waving instead of keeping things concrete
and clear.

I'm mystified how this happened.

~~~
hamburglar
Eddy Cue was embarrassing. He made so many grammatical errors it was like he
was winging it, and when he tries to seem hip it's cringeworthy. There was a
moment where he queued some stuff up and then stiffly said, "yeah! I think I'm
really gonna enjoy this playlist!" as if anybody in history has ever exclaimed
that.

------
thirdsun
Concerning Radio: While I like the general idea of putting human curators in
charge, I think the very broad target audience and the mainstream appeal +
expectations of Apple will render this service close to useless for anyone
who's really deep into music. I don't want to sound like a hipster, but I
spent a lot of time digging up old and new gems in music and I really don't
expect Apple's radio station to bring a lot of worthwhile discoveries to the
table.

The format itself is great - NTS radio has been doing similar stuff for years,
independent from ad money or any other influences, just the taste of the
respective show host. Apple however? They have to appeal, in general, to
everyone and you can't have it both ways - it's either deep, niche and
interesting to a small crowd...or very wide and superficial.

Playlists: The suggestions coming from their playlists, don't sound more
interesting than what rdio and probably every other streaming service (I don't
use Spotify, can't compare) is doing - we saw Bruce Springsteen and "Big Rock"
as automated playlists in the demo - not the hardest usecase I imagine. I'm
less confident when it comes to obscure jazz fusion krautrock crossovers from
the early 1970s. In that case you'll probably have to get your hands dirty
yourself, with countless open tabs just like it has been for years. Not that
I'm complaining, I enjoy going down those rabbit holes.

~~~
k-mcgrady
>> "They have to appeal, in general, to everyone and you can't have it both
ways - it's either deep, niche and interesting to small crowd...or very wide
and superficial."

Why can't they can do 'shows' like regular radio catering to different tastes?

------
baldfat
> Revolutionary

Really Apple Revolutionary? You are years late tot he game and you bought
Beats. Revolutionary and you have Jimmy Iovinne do the presentation?

~~~
pavel_lishin
Who is Jimmy Iovinne, and what's with the juxtaposition of him and
'revolutionary'?

~~~
k-mcgrady
He's one of the world's most successful record producers and also co-founder
of Interscope. He worked on Springsteen, Tom Petty, U2, Dire Straits, John
Lennon records and more.

~~~
arfliw
He also cofounded Beats with Dr Dre and sold it to Apple.

Many speculated that was partially a talent acquisition, to get him working on
projects exactly like this.

~~~
k-mcgrady
Did he co-found Beats? I couldn't confirm. AFAIK he joined up early and got
lots of stock or something like that.

~~~
arfliw
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beats_Electronics#Formation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beats_Electronics#Formation)

>The company was formally established in 2006,[1] a time when Iovine perceived
two key problems in the music industry...

My understanding is he essentially WAS Beats, with Dre lending his name and
like consulting on style and whatnot. Iovine being the brains. That has
carried over to Apple where Iovine works full-time and Dre does not. Apple
wanted Iovine.

------
devindotcom
Would have been a great 5-minute update - "we're adding in direct interactions
with artists, and a cool new worldwide radio station DJed by a couple really
clued-in people. It's reasonably priced and works with all your existing
iTunes stuff. First three months free!!"

But that looong, rambling explanation of every little feature, punctuated by
clips from hip-but-safe artists, was entirely too much show for it.

~~~
davidhperry
Perhaps they needed to fill space after nixing the revamped Apple TV
announcement, if recent rumors are to be believed.

------
Animats
So what is this new product? The Apple site doesn't say.

If you just want background music, try Radio Coast.[1]. This is a successful
streaming music project which annoys the RIAA because it doesn't have to pay
royalties. Years ago Seeburg, the jukebox manufacturer, offered a background
music service, using a special record changer which played 1000 songs over and
over. The music was recorded by their own in-house musicians, so they didn't
have to pay the RIAA. They never copyrighted the records, which you had to do
back then to get copyright protection. Instead, they used a primitive form of
DRM - the speed, record size, groove width, and hole size are all nonstandard.

All those records have been converted to files, and there's a streaming site.
Hundreds of hours of 1950s elevator music.

[1] [http://radiocoast.com/](http://radiocoast.com/)

~~~
istvan__
This is literally the best content in this thread. I haven'd heard about this
but this project is freakin amazing.

------
nostromo
That was an inordinate amount of pomp and circumstance for an updated Music
app.

A radio station? No time shifting? People replaced their radios with Walkmen
and iPods for a reason...

And "Connect" just sounds like Ping 2.0.

~~~
zyxley
> That was an inordinate amount of pomp and circumstance for an updated Music
> App.

"We're basically cloning the entire feature set of Spotify and integrating
that into our existing services" is bigger than you give it credit for.

~~~
underyx
It's not even the entire feature set. For instance, it seems like I can't
control different devices with it, which has lately grown to be an essential
feature for me — 60% of the time when I have my phone on the charger, I can
just yell 'Okay, Google' from across the room, and Spotify will put whatever
music I ask it to on my PC's speakers.

~~~
threeseed
Pretty sure that's available today.

I just say 'Hey Siri play XYZ' on my watch and the music plays on my car
stereo.

------
d0m
The link just open a modal with "Introducing Apple music".. I couldn't find a
way to watch the video or text associated with it. Is it a browser issue? Or
is the link wrong?

~~~
Nicholas_C
You have to click the X at the top left. For some reason it's a popup over the
intro page.

------
jameshart
So with "News" and "Music", Apple's positioning themselves as a provider of
curated, editorialized content. Isn't this a bit like the old Yahoo/MSN portal
play? Are Apple betting they can actually found and fund a media consumption
channel solely through subscriptions?

------
zyxley
"Beats One" sounds like it's halfway an attempt to move into the SiriusXM
space - live radio over the 'net and on devices, with actual DJs and so on,
packaged in a way that's slicker than most internet radio streams. It will be
interesting to see if it's any good.

------
god_bless_texas
I think the most exciting part of Apple Music is the idea of allowing
musicians to put their music into the apple store. Much like the Apple store
gave a storefront to small indie developers, this might do the same for
musicians worldwide. The idea that a small time guy can get a small profit via
the app store instead of just posting onto Youtube and crossing his or her
fingers is cool.

Aside from that, I really have expected thought changes more than anything
from Apple WWDC and this one is just disappointing.

~~~
k-mcgrady
Little guys have always been able to get music on iTunes. CDBaby/Tunecore etc.
allow you to upload your music and have it distributed everywhere including
iTunes and Spotify. Artists will still want to go through those services as
they enable you to upload one place and be available everywhere.

~~~
threeseed
It may have been available on iTunes but it sure as hell wouldn't ever be
discoverable.

Apple Music should help out with this.

------
r721
>As Tim Cook and Jimmy Iovine revealed Apple's music streaming service on
Monday, Spotify's Daniel Ek, whose streaming service is a direct competitor to
Apple's, tweeted a two-word reaction that summed up his feels: "Oh ok."

[http://mashable.com/2015/06/08/daniel-ek-spotify-ceos-
apple-...](http://mashable.com/2015/06/08/daniel-ek-spotify-ceos-apple-music/)

------
temuze
The product page is live now:
[http://www.apple.com/music/](http://www.apple.com/music/)

------
heyts
The "connect" feature is eerily reminiscent of Ping if you remember that. It
was part of iTunes and was a failure from the start and subsequently killed at
some point. I'm really wondering if they will succeed this time.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITunes_Ping](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITunes_Ping)

~~~
rimantas
Connect is about connecting artist to listeners. Was Ping about that?

~~~
tjl
Yes it was. I think the main difference this time will be integration with
Twitter and Facebook. If the artists know that what they post on it can show
up in Facebook and/or Twitter they'd be more likely to use it. We'll see. It
could flop like Ping, or it might not.

------
jhgg
Surprised they are also releasing this on Android!

~~~
tjakab
There's already a Beats Music app on Android, and possibly with a not-
insignificant subscriber base. Since Apple Music is replacing Beats Music
outright they probably didn't want to leave those subscribers out in the cold.
They'd basically be handing over customers to Spotify and Rdio.

~~~
johnward
That plus the family pricing thing is enough to have me consider the service.
My wife loves iOS. I currently use Android. $14 a month isn't too bad for
multiple users.

------
jameshart
"Music has been part of the Apple DNA from the beginning". That quote's
probably enough to get them back into the High Court...
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer)

------
LesZedCB
I'm curious what exactly the _EDIT: Artist_ payment model will be, especially
compared to spotify

~~~
dudus
9.99 for individual and 14.99 for a family plan. With 3 months free

And free ad supported stations as well.

[http://www.apple.com/music/](http://www.apple.com/music/)

~~~
LesZedCB
Oops I meant artist payment model!

------
capkutay
Before talking about doing 'revoluationary' things in the music industry, I
would love it if iTunes reliably had the music I paid for every time I opened
it up instead of a greyed out list item with an ambiguous cloud icon next to
it.

~~~
j2bax
Oh I know. This kills me. Make sure iTunes Match is turned on in your Settings
> Music. Somehow it got switched off on mine at one point or another. After
turning it back on, everything is appearing now. I'm still not incredibly
happy with the streaming though. Sometimes a song will end mid song and go to
the next one. I kind of wish it could keep a cache of the last couple hundred
songs I listened to to reduce network usage as well.

------
rconti
Spotify has done a far, far better of integration with devices like Home
Theater receivers than Apple has. Airplay works on my receiver, but Spotify is
awesome. Fire up a playlist on the laptop, close it, switch to my phone, it
can now control the playlist I started on the phone which is now running on
the receiver.

The receiver itself plays the music directly rather than being streamed from
the device I started playing on. Nifty.

------
ConAntonakos
Twitch.TV has actually taken up a large portion of my time listening to live
DJ streams. Now if only I could easily use it on my phone while the screen
light is off. If this is what Apple is trying to accomplish, then that's
interesting; otherwise, there are so many products from which to choose.

------
chillytoes
Apple Music is so underwhelming. I see nothing which differentiates it from so
many other music products. It was a little sad to see the word "Revolutionary"
projected above the stage. _snore_

------
hyperbovine
Any mention of whether it works offline / on which devices? All I want in life
is to play sports while listening to Spotify on my iPod shuffle.

------
glomph
Funny that they chose exactly the same name as google.

------
unsignedint
Wonder if they'll be providing web player for it.

Personally, that would be a big deciding factor, as I don't want/can't run
iTunes.

------
kyledrake
It's just offering radio at cost?

Download VLC and click on "Icecast Radio". Tens of thousands of streams, for
free.

------
cletus
It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

iTunes Radio, Apple's first attempt in this space, is awful. X skips per hour?
Really? The story went that Apple's execs actually had no idea how Spotify
worked so thought they really had something.

It's the kind of fiasco that would've earned the execs a bollicking in the
Jobs days and, to me, the buck had to stop at Tim Cook.

I'm a paid Spotify subscriber. Generally I like it but it has its warts:

\- They did an app update a few months ago that's viewed as pretty much
universally awful for reasons I can't really explain;

\- Their catalog has many holes (eg Australian music, in this case probably
because Spotify doesn't have an Australian service);

\- I used to think artists were being Luddites by opting out but there's
actually good reason for this. They don't earn royalties proportional to the
actual plays. The royalty scheme imposed by the record companies gives a
disproportionate amount to currently popular artists;

\- Because of the last point you have artists who are missing or, in some
cases, you have all their songs except their 1-2 money makers;

\- Worse, for some songs, particularly for things from the 70s for some
reason, you can't get the original. You just get some shitty remaster that
sounds like bad karaoke.

\- Spotify's radio feature is the real weak point for me. Repeats (sometimes
with only a song in between) and the thumbing up and down I don't think really
has the desired effect. Like I might be on a good string of songs but I know
the worst thing I can do is thumb anything up OR down as experience has taught
me this can only make things worse.

Really "thumbs up" should probably mean "don't change anything". Or at least
me listening to something in full is itself is a positive indicator.

That being said, I'm not really sure you can do satisfying recommendations
here. So much of music is I think tied to memory and nostalgia. You might like
a particular song because of a particular person, place, time or event. How
does liking that inform any other music choice?

At the same time your radio playlist has to be large enough not to be too
repetitive.

What's more, there's actually an art to playlist selection. It's why, for
example, at a concert you'll generally see a band start with something upbeat,
play anything a bit more mellow in the middle and finish on a high note.

Curated playlists (which I guess Apple is calling "guest DJs" because that's
what it amounts to) is an idea with some history (eg Songza, bought by Google
last year I think).

I actually find myself listening to iHeartRadio a lot. I pick a music style
I'm in the mood for and just try different stations until I find something not
too objectionable. Sure there are DJs (99% irritating) and some ads but at
least I don't need to build a playlist, worry about what's on Spotify and what
isn't or make a decision each song about whether to thumb it up or down. It's
it or nothing (well... something else).

Radio really has a low cognitive cost.

------
oneeyedpigeon
No new iPod announced yet. Disappointing.

------
dvcc
So the radio, shared playlists and Beats? Except now when you listen to the
radio, you get to eat away at your data plan.

~~~
uncletaco
Unless you use Sprint in the US. Or connect to wifi when you're streaming
music in your home.

~~~
vbezhenar
It's funny how much of Apple functionality is tightly coupled with US. In my
city (capital of my country) Apple Maps are worthless, Siri suggestions are
worthless, PayPass is worthless, Apple Pay is worthless, iTunes Movies are not
available, Bookstore is not available. Now streaming will be worthless too,
because mobile data plan for 1 GB per month costs more than this Apple Stream
(though I might listen to it at home or at work, but I prefer to listen music
in car or while walking, so it's less attractive).

~~~
johnward
Most of those things are kind of worthless in the US too still. Many retailers
have no idea what NFC or Apple Pay is. I used Google Wallet at gas station a
few months ago and blew the cashiers mind. The only thing I know about apple
maps is my wife still prefers Google Maps.

------
piyush_soni
"Remember when Steve Jobs said even Jesus couldn’t sell music subscriptions?"
[http://www.theverge.com/2015/6/8/8744963/steve-jobs-jesus-
pe...](http://www.theverge.com/2015/6/8/8744963/steve-jobs-jesus-people-dont-
want-music-subscriptions)

