
GM shuts down car-sharing service Maven - prostoalex
https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/21/21229838/gm-maven-shut-down-car-sharing-service
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twblalock
Over the past few years people were saying that self-driving cars would be the
end of car ownership as we know it, that the masses would adopt car sharing,
and if you needed a car you would just summon one on your phone.

The coronavirus has revealed how bad that idea was. Everyone who has a
privately owned car is glad they have it, and they won't forget that once this
is all over.

~~~
Gustomaximus
I don't a once a century event give rationale people won't share cars.
Generally people are very forgetful. E.g We have economic crashes every decade
or so but perhaps even the majority of people still overspend on credit rather
than sacrifice for rainy day funds.

Ultimately it will come down to price, convenience and personal budget. My
opinion anyway.

~~~
twblalock
> Generally people are very forgetful.

People won't forget about a global pandemic that locked down everyone in their
homes for months. Are you joking?

~~~
ergothus
Can you say any ways life changed due to the 1918 pandemic? Do most people
even know about more recent ones? (1958?)

People are terrible at adjusting, we keep asking for (our definition of)
"normal"

~~~
sveng
Faster horses.

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mdorazio
For those not aware, car sharing in general has been on the decline recently.
This is after GM scaled back Maven significantly last year following bad
financials in cities where it was active [1]. It turns out that different
mobility options like car sharing and scooters have wildly different demand
curves and expected profitability figures depending on where they're deployed
due to a combination of things like culture, infrastructure, alternatives,
weather, and price sensitivity.

[1] [https://techcrunch.com/2019/05/20/gms-car-sharing-service-
ma...](https://techcrunch.com/2019/05/20/gms-car-sharing-service-maven-to-
exit-eight-cities/)

~~~
infinitone
Here is a live dashboard of car sharing growth based on Turo/Getaround data:
[https://www.sharelytics.co/blog/the-state-of-carsharing-
car-...](https://www.sharelytics.co/blog/the-state-of-carsharing-car-
rentals-2-0/)

~~~
cheriot
That's some really interesting detail. Thanks.

Really weird how the growth section tracks a "Running Total" so that flat (at
best) monthly rentals generate an up and to the right line.

~~~
infinitone
Its a metabase visualization thing...

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battery_cowboy
“We’ve gained extremely valuable insights from operating our own car-sharing
business,” Pamela Fletcher, GM’s vice president of global innovation, said in
a statement. “Our learnings and developments from Maven will go on to benefit
and accelerate the growth of other areas of GM business.”

What a load of bullshit, just say the business failed and you shut it down.
This is another example of the post-truth world where anyone can say whatever
they want even if it's stupid and wrong. Startups that fail didn't have a
wonderful journey, products that fail don't give valuable insight into
entirely different lines of business (well, they might give some insight), and
an executive that leaves after 2 months isn't a good sign no matter how they
twist it.

~~~
pm90
The ability to spin the disaster as something positive is exactly why this
person is a VP at GM. This kind of skill is necessary but not sufficient to be
an executive.

~~~
achillesheels
Let’s please not generalize here. One does not need to deceive in order to be
an executive. And we must make a moral example out of organizations and
societies where this is considered necessary for profit.

~~~
maxlamb
Technically she did not deceive though. If you read what she said everything
is truthful.

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reeddavid
I'm curious why the model doesn't work.

I didn't get a chance to use Maven but I loved using ReachNow, Car2Go and
LimePod in Seattle before they each shut down.

I would think the biggest strength of free floating car sharing would be the
utilization rate of of the vehicles compared to private ownership.

Looking at the vehicle availability maps, it was clear that there were a lot
of trips taking place. Of course some cars ended up in low-demand areas, but
on average it seemed there was a lot of rental activity.

I am really curious to know what didn't work, from a business model
perspective. None of the shutdown announcements have provided any specific
details.

~~~
wmichelin
In San Francisco, I attempted to use their service once, and I recall there
being a tiny number of cars in the city, and none of them were anywhere near
my home.

~~~
PopeDotNinja
I used Maven a few times. My biggest complaint was the stupid requirement to
unlock the car with Bluetooth. The last time I rented a car, my phone never
stayed in sync. I had to reboot my phone everytime I wanted to lock/unlock the
car. And you'd better hope your phone doesn't die.

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PaulWaldman
How is Zipcar doing? Maven seemed to have better cars at a better price.
What's the difference in their business models?

Interesting that with everyone sheltering in place, now would be the time
where some people realize that they may not need to own a car. Zipcar, and
maybe Maven could have, been great for occasional use scenearios.

~~~
3fe9a03ccd14ca5
It’s still amazing how uneconomical it is to me _not_ owning a car outside of
any highly dense metropolitan are (where you can walk to get most daily
supplies and parking is expensive).

I mean, even a quick drive to the store to get milk is a $20 fee without a
car. Doing even just a single unplanned trip a week and the economics are way
out of wack.

~~~
shalmanese
Surely two Uber rides would be cheaper than that.

~~~
tjohns
In rural areas, Uber can be downright expensive. In my hometown, Uber easily
charges $30-45 for a quick trip across town.

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chauzer
Not surprised. I had the worst experience multiple times with Maven, having my
car reservation cancelled minutes before picking the car up.

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bilifuduo
Bill Gurley's response to this:
[https://twitter.com/bgurley/status/1252701838496825345](https://twitter.com/bgurley/status/1252701838496825345)

Is he right that aggregating demand is the one and only key to a successful
marketplace?

~~~
zaidf
Excess supply gave the world AWS (abt 15 years ago)

~~~
gruez
AFAIK that's a myth. Don't have the original source but a quick google:

[https://www.networkworld.com/article/2891297/the-myth-
about-...](https://www.networkworld.com/article/2891297/the-myth-about-how-
amazon-s-web-service-started-just-won-t-die.html)

~~~
ghaff
Werner Vogels has also disputed the claim.

~~~
justicezyx
Could you provide a link?

Very interested in reading AMAZON CTO's opinions.

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hhsuey
What exactly does he mean by "aggregating demand" and "aggregating supply?

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Jommi
I think its more related to "commoditizing" than just aggregating.

E.g. if you can commoditize the demand size to a single standard unit (and
then have demand to back it up) that's miles stronger than commoditizing the
supply side.

In this example it seems to refer to GM having the supply ready, but
absolutely failing to find the commodity standard and demand base to grow
forward.

~~~
hhsuey
Still kind of confused with the jargon (what then does commoditizing demand
versus supply mean?)

But to be honest, what I think this all boils down to is that GM created a
service that was not high in demand. IMO car sharing just isn't that high in
demand as ride sharing.

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robodale
I read the title as car-shaming....and thought wow that's a thing?

