
San Diego Mayor proposes allowing some housing projects with no parking spaces - DoreenMichele
https://fox5sandiego.com/2018/11/09/mayor-proposes-allowing-some-housing-projects-with-no-parking-spaces/
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jseliger
Donald Shoup's _The High Cost of Free Parking_ is germane here:
[https://www.city-journal.org/html/high-cost-free-
parking-146...](https://www.city-journal.org/html/high-cost-free-
parking-14665.html). It is surprising that the article doesn't even name-check
it.

~~~
johnvanommen
Though I live in San Diego, I generally avoid going downtown because the
parking costs about $30. In a pinch, I'll park a mile north of the city center
and take a scooter or an Uber for the last mile. It's just hard to justify
spending $80 on a night out and nearly 40% of the cost goes to parking.

~~~
DoreenMichele
Have you considered using public transit? A day pass is $5 to $12, depending
on how far out you are, assuming you have a $2 Compass Card.

[https://www.sdmts.com/fares-passes](https://www.sdmts.com/fares-passes)

~~~
binarycrusader
Public transit is not always a great option. For example, where I currently
live in Washington is a ~1hr bus ride to Seattle, but only a ~20 minute drive.
It's awfully hard to justify the loss of ~40 minutes each way just to visit
Seattle.

With that said, I do take public transit whenever I can (including basically
every day to and from work), but I sure wish some of the "long haul" routes
were optimized for city-to-city. Hopefully the light rail system that's being
extended to several cities will help.

~~~
DoreenMichele
I have lived without a car for more than a decade. I spent part of that time
in San Diego. I am specifically talking about transit in San Diego.

It's pretty good for an American system. That doesn't guarantee it will meet
the GPs needs.

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decentrality
San Diego is tending toward car-free living anyway, so this is in line with
that trend. Downtown we have scooters everywhere, as someone else mentioned.
We have free public transit in various forms, for individuals and families
alike.

Parking is generally not included in rent, that is a separate charge normally,
so in essence it's already "no parking space" and you're just getting a better
rate than outside, even when you park under/beside where you live. You're
really _also_ getting security, not just parking. That's the real issue, if
you have a car downtown, which I do.

All this being said, parking is generally very difficult here compared to
other places with less concentrated downtown environments; more in Little
Italy than in the Gaslamp Quarter, and more difficult in Gaslamp versus East
Village. But again, cars are becoming less of a thing, and people are
adapting.

What I hear in the comments so far is a misunderstanding of what a
metropolitan area is. It's not designed to be the same as a suburban area. In
the suburbs, you need "large vehicle" transportion, versus downtown where you
need what's called "last mile" ... like scooters. Any other people need to do
their research and see we even have FRED which is _free rides_ ... so you
could park somewhere that isn't oppressively priced and get a free ride ( not
even pay for an Uber/Lyft or scooter or bike, etc ) and be totally fine.

It's the problem of taking a suburban attitude into a downtown environment
that's causing people to miss out on the actual purpose of the space and the
infrastructure we already have.

~~~
ars
> Downtown we have scooters everywhere, as someone else mentioned.

How do you plan to take children on a scooter? Or is downtown for singles
only?

~~~
rland
Downtown San Diego is basically for singles only. It's a city mostly full of
transients. Once people decide to have a family, they move away or to the
suburbs if they are loaded.

~~~
decentrality
You are incorrect on 66-100% of your statement. I feel like you're just
regurgitating a bias here.

And it's not even about cost of living if you really get down to it, it's
about inability to adapt to the pace of having so many options, that you
choose to have fewer, or preferring a slower pace and less options, which is
fine.

But the homeless situation has been dramatically affected by positive changes,
so no. There are plenty of families, many types of household, so no. And
people generally move away from San Diego entirely, not just downtown, if they
leave. It's an overall lifestyle change usually. San Diego as a whole is
speeding up, and the cost comes with benefits of being here.

But like I said, if it isn't bias, it's preference, and preference is fine!
The bias though, is flawed.

( Major edits since downvote since apparently I needed to spell out exactly
why this is biased thinking, not just question the bias. This is really unfair
to San Diego which is not perfect, but extremely progressive. We've dealt with
the majority of the charges rapidly. Check your assumptions and refactor your
thinking please )

~~~
housingpost
It’s just that your statements are incorrect about families. The real numbers
are: “In the county, children (ages 0 – 17) are 23 percent of the total
population, in downtown, they are only 10 percent of the population.”

~~~
decentrality
The thing is, the statistics have a long-tail, and the truth is that when the
paradigm shifts, like it did and is doing, it's important to hear from first-
hand accounts and not rely on statistics based on overall trends historically.
They track an old dynamic, and the new dynamic is tending toward people living
anywhere they want, especially into dense areas more comfortably, and the age-
old bias toward moving outward at the point of having kids or retiring is
reversing. I've seen it first hand, spoken to numerous people who are early
adopters to this trend, and in all brackets of social standing and model of
domestic life. It is evidence of an overall shift in how we live as people.

The benefits of being in the denser areas versus the believed drawbacks are
changing, so much so it makes me genuinely hopeful about one day having 10
billion people versus 8 on the planet, which for someone who wanted less
people not more, is notable at least and hinges on this shift. So I would
recheck the numbers often and along new metrics, and favor first-hand
information in times of change.

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User23
This is a giveaway to developers plain and simple.

~~~
anonuser123456
What is being given away? Someone has land, someone wants to build on it,
someone wants to buy the result.

~~~
maerF0x0
I would imagine at least a few users of that land will use nearby parking,
which if it's free is a tragedy of commons case. Tenants of the building
should not be allowed to register a car w/o a parking contract.

~~~
User23
Even in the East Village parking is scarce, especially when there is some kind
of large event downtown, which is often. Under current regulations landlords
are required to provide parking for tenants, which as you correctly imply,
means that street parking is relatively more available. Parking is bad now,
this will just make it worse. It's bad for tenants and it's bad for local
businesses. The only people it's good for are real estate developers who will
shave some upfront costs by not building garages in their projects. This
doesn't address the housing shortage because the set of developers who say
"yeah we'd like to build a 200 unit tower, but nevermind because the law says
we need to dig a parking garage" is empty.

Edit: What would be cool though is a legal right for tenants to sublet their
parking space if they choose not to own a car.

~~~
decentrality
All this sounds accurate but hinges on a few presumptions. I'm leaving the
comments I made though I've definitely taken unwarranted down votes for the
same reasons I was first resistant to all this myself. I made all your
arguments once upon a time. And in Little Italy your case is better, but in
Gaslamp it's mostly moot because San Diego is literally the booziest city in
the world by some metrics, so people use ridesharing out of different sets of
necessity than environment or parking. The police blitz the DUI.

The main presumption is negatively affecting business. Not usually. We're not
primarily tourist aimed in East Village. Little Italy is more so and Gaslamp
almost exclusively. Yes, Petco Park traffic and Balboa Park traffic is
frequent, but that's a vibrant aspect of the neighborhood unless you aren't
really part of it and are a commuter. I catch myself taking my own car a few
city blocks and trying to get home is intense, but I ought not have been so
stupid living near a beautiful stadium as a perk and feature of our home.

Businesses are shifting to catering to the buildings around them, and if those
do have parking, we get our guests day passes up to a certain amount per month
as part of our parking rent. It's just about forethought again.

If I were a tourist or unintegrated person yes I'd be disgruntled too. But
understanding your environment takes work and adaptation. If you live downtown
and work elsewhere that's your choice. Live elsewhere and drink or eat out
downtown without ridesharing, same. No friends with parking? Bummer. But shops
here aren't dying for outside business anymore. We patronize local spots
ourselves and Downtown is a short walk from end to end. It's small.

Factoring in all the social changes coming in we're not measured by the old
standards and stuffy norms. We drink a lot. We walk around. We ride places. We
work around the corner or remotely or cowork. We smoke weed more often easily.
We generally get whatever we want delivered. We are here, now, on purpose not
as diversion or at an aloof distance. The city is an extension of our home.

I feel like you're in a bracket of time locked expiration and perhaps bitter?
People should know their surroundings as a rule and don't blame the place for
being itself.

Last, parking doesn't automatically get used if it's there and that's the
point of all this. Developers sort benefit but they need to go deep anyway if
the building is tall enough. It's a shift away from living Downtown for the
look and not actually living here. People actually live here more now, as
present and rooted individuals who genuinely love it. I hope you locate that
sense.

~~~
decentrality
Also the arguments read more coherently in Mission Valley than Downtown, but
again, not any more.

I also lived there, before Petco was built when Jack Murphy was Qualcomm.
Basically a nightmare and not alive enough to justify the hassle because it's
a consumer hub not an actual ecosystem.

But Pokez on 10 & E is a great example. The owner literally parks in metered
or risky parking every day and caters to undriving locals. The lot next to him
is usually reserved for USPS staff.

Tajima a few doors down, similar. Pet stores? Mattress place. These clearly
cater to the thousands living above them. Quartyard, Basic, Tavern+Bowl,
Kebab, grocery retailers. All local or Postmates / delivery geared. Atmosphere
oriented, made for options beyond your own roof already setup for parties and
nightlife very often. It's extremely competitive. Make Pizza is another great
example. Totally geared toward the students of New School. Basically no
parking. IDEA1 has entrances facing into the building and out, not phased by
parking. A lot of pet focused business. Clearly local aimed.

East Village in general is secure in itself and when these new buildings on 11
& F, Park, 11 & G, etc all come in, the momentum is already tending this
rooted and share economy direction. So basically, honestly who besides the
disconnected types care?

People in East Village are by and large pretty happy with their situation and
Downtown caters to our whim, our wishes, not just needs, but in a healthy
relationship of not just myopic tourist diversion but real variety and home
extension. The millenials are really attentive to feelings and aesthetics so
let them be I say. And in thier wake comes a new pride in what we live in and
don't need outside traffic to sustain. And the older generations level up
accordingly as we realize the virtues of being so self centered that you
create beautiful environments purely because you feel like it and not to
create a draw... then you go ultra minimalist in every other area not related
to at... and here we are.

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romed
San Francisco recently held a city council hearing on eliminating parking
minimums city-wide. Houston has no parking requirements in its central
business district. Mandatory parking is looking pretty dumb at this stage of
the climate emergency.

