
DHH: Fuck the Real World - pet3r
http://www.rubyrailways.com/dhh-fuck-the-real-world/
======
bluefish
You have to give DHH, Jason and others at 37signals credit for not just having
decent business ideas and executing on them but also developing a brand and
image. It doesn't hurt that DHH is stylish and can deliver humorous, slightly
self deprecating lines like “We don’t have 200k RSS subscribers because of my
deliciously swirly hair”. It also doesn't hurt that 37signals doesn't lock DHH
into the code monkey box and instead lets him travel around giving talks and
promoting that image. I've seen him talk in person and have to admit that he
is a great presenter, even on topics unrelated to code.

~~~
tjogin
That, and the fact that they are _giving away_ their knowledge and experience
to anyone who wants to listen. (Plus repackaging it and selling it to anyone
who want to pay for it.) Anyone who doesn't appreciate that can simply not
listen to them — it's an odd request for anyone to ask people to stop
publishing stuff on their own website. I for one am thankful for their free
advice.

People tend to dislike the way their advice is definitive, they see a trait of
arrogance in that. Me, I think of it more as being non-fuzzy, they cut through
to the gist and the focal points.

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mixmax
The most amazing thing about this, and DHH in general, is that it is all
common sense. But he is the only one that has the guts to shout _"but the
emperor has no clothes on"_

~~~
axod
>> "only one that has the guts to shout "but the emperor has no clothes on""

On what point specifically? I really would not trust advice from him on how
well advertising models work. Seek out someone who has made a money from
advertising and trust them instead.

If you've already decided to offer a paid product, 37signals, fogbugz etc all
seem to have good things to say on that model, but taking their advice on
which model to choose seems like a very bad idea to me.

~~~
mixmax
On choosing a business model. Far too many companies rely on just getting
users, and monetizing later.

Of course advice from someone who has had success with _both_ an advertising
and a pay model would be the ideal, but lacking that I'll settle for advice
from someone that has actually had success.

Come to think of it, I can't recall having read about a company that has had
success (as in making enough money to live on within a year or two from
launch) with an advertising model. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just that
it seems to be an outlier.

Charging for your products, on the other hand, is a well-proven model that has
worked for hundreds of years. This is how the vast majority of companies
generate cash. I just think it's refreshing to see someone that actually comes
out and says it, instead of all this get-big-fast hype that only worls out
well for an absolute minority.

~~~
axod
If you're in the UK, check out forums like <http://www.affiliates4u.com/>
There are hundreds if not thousands of users on there making a living out of
affiliate marketing. I don't know of similar forums in the US, but am sure
they exist.

Also check out sitepoint 'websites for sale'. Quite often they include figures
on revenue. Just scan down those and see how much they're making from
advertising.

It's just less news worthy so you don't hear about them - "Another website
makes lots of money from adverts" - big deal. Also lots haven't gone the VC
route so they don't try to court the press/blogs/etc quite so much.

The issue I have with companies that get big with ad income as a model, is the
massive amount they spend on servers, offices, tons of employees. If they kept
lean they could be making a lot of money.

~~~
mixmax
I just checked Sitepoint, and there are currently 17 sites that sell, or have
been sold for more than $50.000. A salesprice less than that probably
indicates you can't live off it. Of those 17 sites:

\- two are getting revenue from affiliate marketing

\- one is advertising porn

\- one has advertising income of $500 monthly

\- one has ad revenues of $3000 monthly.

The rest sell actual products that they charge for.

I still don't think advertising is a model that works well for most companies.

~~~
axod
I did actually mean look at it periodically for a while and check out some of
the sites that come up. You can't really take a single snapshot for a single
day and draw any conclusion from it.

That's like saying there haven't been any IPO's today, so IPO's aren't
possible.

Also it's probably slightly rarer to see profitable ad-supported websites
actually come up for sale, since often they take nothing to run, so people
hang onto them.

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davidw
DNW: This is mostly a rehash of previous things the guy has said.

~~~
tjogin
How rude of him to _not_ assume that everybody already reads and listens to
every word he ever says.

~~~
davidw
I was just pointing out that the article really isn't worth a look for those
who have read most of what he's already written.

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Deestan
He is annoyed that critics take DHH's "Fuck" words out of context, but he's
not really helping the cause with that blog post title.

~~~
mannicken
I suggest critics grow up and stop looking down upon every "bad word" with
perspective of a kindergarden teacher.

People will say brilliant things and a bunch of total complete bullshit both
using "bad words" and not.

Again, I suggest going after the idea rather than attacking individual words
-- it's a signal of inability to criticize everything else.

~~~
jimbokun
I think it works both ways. Sometimes people will find something brilliant
because it was said with swear words, but wouldn't take much note of it if
said with other words. If the idea was not that great without swear words, I'm
not sure how the swear words make it brilliant.

~~~
mannicken
In decent writing every word is said precisely because it needs to be said.
It's not a contest on who can say stuff with most obfuscated and "proper"
words in it. It's a contest on who has the best ideas and who can be a good
telephate. We're just trying to pass stuff from our neural networks to other
people's neural networks through written language.

There's no prize for saying the same thing with less swear words but as each
word, including swear words, carries its own emotional aura and meaning, you
_must_ use them where necessary to convey your thought.

In this case the thought was about humorous, uncompromising denial of blocks
set by the perceived reality. Something a teenager would say when denying
authority or looking to think out of the box, created by the religious past.

If you need word "fuck" to be in the text, then please god-fucking-damnit put
it there!

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Karrot_Kream
“I didn’t start coding when I was 6, but 21, and Jason (Fried) started
business school later too”

On the other hand, I did. And now I'm in college having the time of my life
analyzing frequency responses of signal filters, and doing only peripheral
amounts of coding. Shows how much what you did as a kid has a bearing on what
you end up doing later in life :)

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abstractwater
is there a video of the talk up somewhere?

~~~
tjogin
Upcoming. DHH said on Twitter that he'll tweet a link to it when it comes up.

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boredguy8
I really hate to be the prude, but do we need titles like this on the front
page?

~~~
kirubakaran
Why not? It is not even spelled wrong.

------
MisterMerkin
Some people are just born with the linkbait gene.

------
volida
i am annoyed by the title

~~~
gord
I love the title. Its refreshing.

We should continue to self censor the F-word.. but not for the reasons you
think.

It simply becomes less effective/refreshing/honest/direct/entertaining the
more you use it.. its such an important and nice word, we need to ration its
use in order to preserve its role in the language.

~~~
megamark16
If you say it all day, every day, then your 5 year old will go to school and
use it. On the other hand, if it slips out when you hit your thumb with a
hammer (assuming you're not a very uncoordinated career carpenter) then your 5
year old will know that it must have hurt like the dickens, but that it's not
a word for every day use.

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ahoyhere
The great thing about advice like this is, is that you can give away all the
real secrets to your success, but never fear that people will take you on
because people either feel satisfied just listening to it rather than doing
it, or just don't want to hear it and come up with excuses why the advice-
giver clearly doesn't understand _the real world_.

I've always considered that aspect to be entirely brilliant.

~~~
tjogin
That's half the truth. Jason Fried likes to compare this to how world famous
chefs lets people in on their cooking secrets.

Reading their cook books or watching their tv shows isn't going to propel you
to their level of skill or put them out of business, just help you a bit a
long the way.

The secret to success isn't secret.

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kubrick
I think the world needs contrarians like this, but that the world also needs
to know not to take them entirely seriously.

