
V for Vendetta and the Rise of Anonymous - by Alan Moore - waitwhat
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16968689
======
kqr2
Obligatory quote from the movie:

<http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0434409/quotes?qt=qt0450655>

    
    
      There are of course those who do not want us to speak. I 
      suspect even now, orders are being shouted into telephones,
      and men with guns will soon be on their way. Why? Because 
      while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, 
      words will always retain their power. Words offer the means 
      to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation 
      of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly 
      wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and 
      injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you 
      had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw 
      fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance 
      coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. 
      How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there 
      are those more responsible than others, and they will be 
      held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're 
      looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I
      know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't 
      be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems 
      which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your 
      common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your panic 
      you turned to the now high chancellor, Adam Sutler. He 
      promised you order, he promised you peace, and all he 
      demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent.

~~~
arethuza
As an extremely unpleasant man once said:

"...voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the
leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being
attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the
country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

He was wrong about just about everything else, but in this one statement I
fear he may have told the truth.

~~~
Helianthus
It is all too easy to pretend that people have no say in the actions of their
commonwealth, and much too difficult to believe that patriotism, pacifism,
idealism, and conservatism each have something important to say.

I am unimpressed with your cynicism.

~~~
yaix
"Cynic" is what the idealist calls the realist.

~~~
rhizome
The capacity for accurate observation is often called, "cynicism" by those who
haven't got it.

------
mindcrime
The thing I find interesting / amusing about the "Guy Fawkes" masks from the
movie, is the extent to which they have been embraced by at least 3 or 4
fairly different, even seemingly opposing, groups. Looking around, I've seen
these masks associated with:

1\. Radical libertarian / anti-government types

2\. Tea Partiers

3\. The OWS movement

4\. Anonymous

The moral of this story may just be that these groups have more in common that
you would suspect at first blush.

~~~
heydenberk
Namely: none of them have taken the time to learn about what a completely
detestable theocratic proto-fascist Guy Fawkes was

~~~
semisight
But to their credit, that's not the point. This is touched upon in the novel--
that it's the idea of rebellion that Guy Fawkes has become a symbol of, not
what he was fighting for but that he was fighting at all.

------
wingo
Ah, Alan Moore. I love the man.

Here's a lovely interview with him, from "Mythmakers and Lawbreakers", a work
on anarchist fiction writers:

[http://www.birdsbeforethestorm.net/2009/02/mythmakers-
lawbre...](http://www.birdsbeforethestorm.net/2009/02/mythmakers-lawbreakers-
alan-moore-on-anarchism/)

The book:

<http://www.birdsbeforethestorm.net/mmlb/>

Some of the interviews are better than others, but the Ursula K. Le Guin and
Alan Moore ones really stood out for me.

~~~
gaelian
I don't think it's overstating things to say that Moore's influence changed
the face of the comic industry forever (no pun intended). The man is a true
visionary, pushing the boundary of whatever medium he chooses. I look forward
to reading his novels.

Here is another good and recent interview:

[http://www.honestpublishing.com/news/honest-alan-moore-
inter...](http://www.honestpublishing.com/news/honest-alan-moore-interview-
part-1-publishing-and-kindle/)

~~~
astrange
> I don't think it's overstating things to say that Moore's influence changed
> the face of the comic industry forever (no pun intended).

What, for the better or worse? The comic industry is in no state to be proud
of; they sell at least 100 times less than they used to and their entire
audience is 30 year old white men because they have no ability to attract new
readers.

That's the American-style comic industry; the Japanese one is doing well.

~~~
toyg
Moore et al. kept the industry relevant for more than they should have. VfV
and Watchmen are a few of those works that keep selling 20 years later, while
99% of the US comic production is crap and gets forgotten after six months.
The market is what it is because there are too few Moores and Ellises and
Gaimans , and too many self-referential comic-fans-turned-writers.

------
bad_user
Btw, I'm a Romanian and tomorrow I'll also be joining the protest. I'm in the
process of co-opting some of my neighbors. Please do so too.

------
Interrobang
"Our present financial ethos no longer even resembles conventional capitalism,
which at least implies a brutal Darwinian free-for-all, however one-sided and
unfair. Instead, we have a situation where the banks seem to be an untouchable
monarchy beyond the reach of governmental restraint, much like the profligate
court of Charles I."

I couldn't agree more.

------
imjoel
It's hard for me to align myself with Anonymous because I really don't like
how they give support to the ideas I agree with, but, man, it sure does look
exciting from where I'm standing.

------
tripngroove
Just saw an awesome documentary on Anonymous at the Slamdance Film Festival
(Sundance's indie younger sibling). Interesting and well made. Would recommend
it for anyone who is interested in Anonymous/Hacktivism.

<http://wearelegionthedocumentary.com/>

------
cicloid
Who has the copyright on the Guy Fawkes masks?

UPDATE: Forget it, the design belongs to Time Warner.

~~~
accountoftheday
mine has a label inside indicating it was made under license from the movie
rights owners.

~~~
rbanffy
Obviously, the moral thing is to make your own. ;-)

Mass-production, however, has some interesting advantages. It's harder to
trace it back to its owner, for instance.

~~~
accountoftheday
quite the opposite. it makes it rather easy to cross-reference amazon orders
of said mask with politically active online accounts via isp records to
identify suitable candidates for future re-education internment camps on the
topic of IP and state rights. could be done using the ironically libertarian-
funded Palantir, i suppose.

~~~
pyre
You could also purchase it locally with cash at a costume/mask shop...

~~~
rbanffy
Extra points if you buy a fake version made in China and brought illegally
into your country of choice.

------
KiwiCoder
Tangential Alan Moore - Alternative thought for the day at
[http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9669000/9669590....](http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9669000/9669590.stm)

------
Helianthus
Interestingly, Alan Moore manages to miss the point and be spot-on at the same
time.

Nowhere does he seem to cotton to the nature of Anonymous, the disavowal of
identity that accompanies taking up the mask: even though _he himself_
demonstrated the succession of V.

But that's perhaps to be expected; the movie necessarily completed the image
of the mask by making it abundantly clear that it is when the _group_ takes up
the mask that the mask has power. You cannot punish one if you must punish
all.

At the same time, he is clearly in tune with the movement. "Today's response
to similar oppressions seems to be one that is intelligent, constantly
evolving and considerably more humane."

All in all I read (if I may) V for Valediction from a man who thanks the
movement for validating his work, and encourages the next generation just as
an intellectual parent ought.

And also like a good intellectual parent, he points to his own heritage...
"Some ghosts never go away..."

~~~
jacobolus
> _Nowhere does he seem to cotton to the nature of Anonymous_

By “cotton” did you mean “caught on”?

~~~
dsr_
Colloquial American English expression, used appropriately. "To cotton to" is
to understand and possibly enjoy a phenomenon -- it's always a positive
connotation.

------
paulhauggis
Anonymous is a childish sudo-terrorist group that has thrown multiple digital
temper-tantrums because they haven't gotten their way.

Even if I support their views, I would never want to be associated with them.

~~~
paulhauggis
I also will not follow anyone that silences your opinion merely because they
disagree. This isn't the purpose of down voting, but it's obvious to me that
the supporters of anonymous feel this way.

~~~
slowpoke
You most likely aren't downvoted because people want to "silence" your
opinion, but because your expression of it is aggressive, unfriendly and
borders on ad hominem. That's why I myself downvoted you, at least.

It's fine being critical of Anonymous. Just accusing them of being
"terrorists" and "having no balls" is neither constructive criticism nor an
opinion worth discussing.

~~~
paulhauggis
"It's fine being critical of Anonymous. Just accusing them of being
"terrorists" and "having no balls" is neither constructive criticism nor an
opinion worth discussing."

It's called an opinion. Garbage is spewed about the US government weekly on HN
and nobody calles it "ad hominem" (which you also can't just throw around).

I provided proof. Here is another example:

[http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/anonymous-
hack...](http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/anonymous-hacker-group-
threatens-reign-of-terror-against-israel-1.412118)

They sound like terrorists, act like terrorists, so I'm going to call them
what they are. I don't care if you disagree.

~~~
lukifer
For Anonymous to be "terrorists", don't they have to successfully scare
someone? Or, you know, kill people? Stealing code and DDoSing websites, boy, I
sure am quaking in my boots.

