

Ideas for a non-web software startup? - hashbucket

I'm pretty depressed about the current Silicon Valley startup scene. First, it seems that everyone is chasing after the finite pool of ad money, i.e. the game is (at least somewhat) zero-sum. Plus, although AdBlock is right now limited to the tech circles, it will eventually spread to everybody. Second, none of the startups have interesting tech. For example, reddit or digg are just marketing + some pretty interface. There only place where powerful algorithms are employed seems to be at Google. What market should someone who is interested in working with algorithms enter? Is there a bright future in bio-informatics? I want to write software that will actually make a difference, not be the next twitter or facebook clone. Those are fun to play with, sure, but I highly doubt that it changed anyone's life the way Google did or genetic testing will.
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menloparkbum
Just a few comments about bioinformatics:

\- most of the work to be done is the same boring stuff you do at a startup:
maintain the server farm, deal with flaky libraries, tune the database. The
interesting algorithm work is done by PhDs... at universities.

\- the bullshit factor at bioinformatics companies is as high or higher than
the trivial startups you mention. You are ultimately working on tools that
people don't really know how to use and trying to sell them to people that
probably don't need them. The only "real" customers are pharma companies or
larger biotech firms. This makes the environment much like working for an
enterprise software vendor which everyone knows isn't very fun.

\- the bioinformatics companies are either in glamorous places like New
Jersey, Boston suburbs or... Silicon Valley. So, you're unlikely to be able to
escape from the SV scene anyway.

\- at a startup these days, you at least can use slightly less painful tools
like ruby and python. In bioinformatics, you are stuck with ancient Perl/CGI
scripts or some VB/Java time bomb.

I spent 2 years in bioinformatics and will be forever grateful that I was
given the opportunity to escape and work on silly, pointless consumer
entertainment software instead.

~~~
paulsb
menloparkbum, if you are interested in solving the problems you mentioned,
then please get in touch (my email is my profile page). One of the aspects of
my start-up is to solve the problems you have mentioned.

~~~
paulsb
Hashbucket, if you're interested in applying powerful algorithms to semantic
searching within science, including bioinformatics, then get in touch.

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wanorris
I've found Dr. Richard Hamming's talk to scientists, "You and Your Research,"
to have useful advice on the subject.
<http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/YouAndYourResearch.html>

In particular, he talks about keeping track of a set of important problems
worth solving. Then, whenever you find an interesting new technique, compare
it against your library of problems, and see if there's a good fit. I expect
the reverse is also similarly useful: keep a good library of techniques on
hand, and look for one that's applicable whenever you run across an
interesting problem.

This type of approach isn't necessary for building twitter or facebook clones,
but it may well be ideal for looking for new ways to apply machine learning
and other types of advanced algorithms, because it's primarily applicable in
cases where there's an actual problem to solve.

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inovica
Hi there. If you have a good idea, then do it - there are LOADS of companies
that make good money out there. You may not have heard of them, but they pay
the bills for their founders and a whole lot more. Here's an interesting, if
possibly dated, article about Ultraedit, a PHP Editor and how the history
about how the founder quit his job. From what I understand he makes very good
money from this:

<http://www.ultraedit.com/company/IDM_full_story.html>

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cmars232
"marketing + some pretty interface"

Best description yet of "Web 2.0"!

I feel much the same way, which is why I've been learning Eclipse RCP this
year. Not everything has to be a killer website (although RCP apps can be made
into web apps with RAP).

There are still many applications that don't quite fit into the "web 2.0"
mold. For example, think of applications that deal with data users want to
keep private, or share only on their own terms, not through a trusted third
party, however benevolent they claim to be.

Instead of trying to convince users they need to trust their data to your web
app, bring the application to them!

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run4yourlives
So, on a daily basis, what piece of software really pisses you off? What task
can you just not find the right solution for? What do you hear your friends
complaining about and think, yeah, I feel ya?

Build that solution. Sell that solution. You'll have done two things: solved
your problem, and solved someone else's. If you make a few bucks along the
way, so be it!

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dcurtis
To point out one startup using cool math: Powerset.

Google may use cool math, but be careful calling it the "only" at anything.
There are tons of companies you probably haven't heard of doing awesome
things. Everyone knows about Google, though, so it's easy to point to it as an
"only".

I hope that made sense.

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samratjp
Well, again, look for everyday pains. If there is something on some of your
customers' minds when they wake up, find that something and solve that for
them, so they have one less thing to worry about. Really that's what even
Google says AND does, focus on the customer and everything else will follow.

Having said all that, use your skill as a tool! Let's take Octopart as an
example - the founders' pain was they couldn't find their parts easily online.
So, they put their skills (algorithms [well, technically, they were
physicists, but any good physicist is a good mathematician]) to work - they
built a great search that Google doesn't cater to.

Lessons: 1) They identified pain - no search for parts 2) They used their
skillset - math (algorithms) 3) They are making the world a better place* (as
in much more of an impact* than those playthings you mentioned). *-very very
relative

As about bio-informatics, who knows? Heck, no one really knows about any
industry's future. If someone claims to know, he/she is trying to sell
something - may it be an idea, prophecy, or plain bull-shiitake mushrooms :)
Point is that if you have really identified your customers' pain, then they
will happily send their wheel barrows full of love AND money towards your
solution.

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Zak
It's been brought up a couple times here that email software sucks for people
who get a large volume of mail. This is the problem Xobni started with before
they moved in a different direction. I think a lot could be gained by applying
machine learning to this problem. This is the sort of product people would pay
for if it was good. Life changing? If you have 20000 unread messages in your
inbox, it just might be.

Not that there's anything wrong with bioinformatics.

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rantfoil
There are some pretty amazing algorithms at work every day in the financial
markets. If you're interested in that, I can personally recommend Palantir
Technologies as a great place to thrive doing just that. They're applying real
computer science in problem spaces that desperately need it.

<http://www.palantirtech.com/>

My profile has contact info if you'd like an intro.

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ninjastartup
You need to recheck your assumptions. There is no finite pool of ad money. Ad
money is infinite as long as people are buying products and services online
and offline. Reddit & Digg are algorithms none the less. Writing powerful
algorithms need MARKETS willing to pay for your time and provide returns to
your investors. Anyway, if you want to change people's life; its very easy.
Think about Darfur and software that can help. Think about an algorithm that
can use GoogleMaps, RFID, GPS, SocialGraph, CommodityPrices, UNICEF api. I am
sure such a project will be challenging and help with your depression.
Goodluck.

~~~
samratjp
Second that AND if you really want to make a huge impact, write a "social
responsible" network for the mobile phone; Android dev contest rewards well!

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dpapathanasiou
I'm re-reading "Moneyball" by Michael Lewis, and everything he describes about
baseball scouting at that time (i.e., every team is chasing players with
relatively unimportant characteristics while the guys that really contribute
to victory are undervalued) feels similar to what SV considers "important"
right now.

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nuggien
So what are you interested in? Making money or changing people's lives? I kind
of don't understand what you are depressed about. You say everyone is trying
to be a twitter or facebook clone and/or chasing after ad money. Isn't that a
GOOD thing for you since you are trying to do something in bio-informatics?

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asdflkj
What makes you think that "software that will actually make a difference" is
non-web software? A lot of web-based fluff is being churned out these days,
but that doesn't change the fact that almost everything that has made a
difference lately has been web-based, too.

Counterexamples welcome.

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projectileboy
Here's a product that I want to buy, that I don't want to build: I want a
small, waterproof (or at least water-resistant) audio device that has a single
speaker and three (or so) buttons. Pressing the first button plays a long
audio file of hurricane and storm noises. The second button plays a long audio
file of pirate battles. The third button plays a long audio file of WWII
submarine combat sounds. The audio quality has to be very good. I'll pay up to
$20-$25 bucks for this without thinking twice.

Why? Tubby time for the kids! Of course, I _could_ set up something myself,
but I'm too lazy.

Future iterations could include other similar devices (e.g., one with space
sounds), or a "fourth button" that allowed custom sounds to be downloaded.

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mlinsey
First - If you want to "write software that will actually make a difference",
your best bet is to stop worrying about advertising markets and twitter clones
and focus on exactly that - finding some problem in the world and fixing it.

Second - the advertising dollars in the valley are not zero-sum, because the
potential market, while finite, is not nearly what it could be. How to do
effective brand advertising or video advertising on the web are very much
unsolved problems, and whoever solves them will substantially increase the
size of the pie that everyone is fighting over. These aren't technical
problems, but they could have technical solutions (Ooyala in the video
advertising space is a good example).

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Tichy
I feel a bit like you, web development can be incredibly boring. However,
lately there is a bright light on the horizon: social networks analysis should
provide for lots of opportunities to run some interesting algorithms. You
could always start with the Netflix Challenge (not sure what interests you).

Also many people seem to make shitloads of money with "ad opmtimization
software", tools for people to help them optimize their spending on ads. OK,
that is ads again, but I think an area where you could run wild with
algorithms.

What about image analysis? Google doesn't translate images yet...

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sharpshoot
Not all these companies are doing lame things. Particularly check out 23andme
and the stealth bioinformatics startup; <http://snaptalent.com/ads.html>

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wheels
Here's the thing -- as has been pointed out here many times, investors are
conservative. Once a meme catches on everybody rides that wave for a while
hoping for the point where there's some consolidation and those startups get
snatched up.

Doing really cool stuff is riskier. Scarier. There are no rules laid down yet
for what sort of value you're generating.

That said, there are hard algorithms more places than you expect. When trying
to scale something that looks simple on the surface, problems often become
complex enough to be interesting.

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antirez
Just an idea: try to bring programming to the masses. I see a lot of non-IT
people that to solve their everyday work tasks need to write code even if they
don't realize it very well. Currently the mainstream application to do it
is... excel. An environment where people can write code almost without
realizing it to solve specific problems can make the difference.

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edw519
Watch this, hashbucket. Seriously. Take the time. I hope this gives you
another angle to think about.

[http://www.justin.tv/hackertv/98115/David_Heinemeier_Hansson...](http://www.justin.tv/hackertv/98115/David_Heinemeier_Hansson_Creator_of_Rails)

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nazgulnarsil
programmers are always saying that they don't get to work on interesting
algorithms. you know who gets to work on interesting algorithms? traffic
engineers.

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giles_bowkett
Forget about Silicon Valley and startups. Think of something that needs to
exist. Then build it.

The first step is the only hard one.

~~~
Zak
If it's really something that needs to exist, the second step may be harder.

~~~
tjr
Maybe, maybe not. As discussed here before, many hacker types don't tend to
think outside of a very limited domain of problems very well, leaving lots of
potentially useful programs unwritten.

