
Documentary About Pedophile Priests Shakes Up Poland - blanche_
https://www.apnews.com/14f374e7c6a340e6bbf543223f968006
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phoe-krk
The documentary is very good and based on facts, and the Polish church never
had and still does not have any means of getting rid of people such as the
collaborators who have been implanted there by the old communist governments
or child molesters who proliferate in this environment, having unrestricted
access to children in schools and churches. They are simply moved from one
chapel to another or, eventually, to houses for the elderly priests.

This needs to change, and, as a Polish person, I wholeheartedly welcome this
documentary. I am glad that it has been made - it would never be possible if
it was not for independent filmmaking.

It's time for the Catholic church to stop being associated with child
molestation - and in order for that to happen, the child molestation must be
purged from that church with all appropriate means. Otherwise, that stigma
will just keep on going on.

~~~
jbob2000
But what if there’s nothing to purge? What if the church itself is the
catalyst for creating predators?

The fact that this problem has spanned generations tells me that this isn’t
something you can purge, it’s fundamental to the way the church operates. Ask
a man to be celibate and then give him unquestioned, divine power over
individuals? Of course you’re going to have a predator problem!

~~~
javagram
Institutions such as public schools and the Boy Scouts that do not require
celibacy have had very similar problems. So have some Protestant churches that
allow their ministers to marry.

The John Jay report done on clerical sex abuse in the USA didn’t find the
percentage of abusers in the priesthood to be significantly different from
those in other professions.

The impulse to cover up is not limited to the institution of celibacy by any
means.

Unfortunately as a catholic I fear this is a ticking time bomb for many non
first world churches. The church here in the US only put into place decent
zero-tolerance policies in the late 90s and early 2000s and many churches in
other regions have failed to take matching action.

~~~
jacquesm
> Institutions such as public schools and the Boy Scouts that do not require
> celibacy have had very similar problems.

All have one thing in common: adults with unchecked power over minors.

~~~
ertyuip
Its more common than that as it starts with mothers breastfeeding their kids.
Other scientists argue Pedophilia and others are perfectly natural, you even
see this behaviour in other animals, including castrated male dogs trying to
copulate with younger dogs. For decades, the BBC hid the sexual habits of
Bonobo monkeys from the wider public, they have sex with all ages of their
species, something that was only known in small academic circles. Of course
the accusation of pedophilia and other philia's is an excellent blackmail and
extortion method most often used by security services of all people! Can you
think of a better accusation to make where it can not be defended as it boils
down to a historical event which is medically hard to prove and simply relies
on the evidence of at least 2 people. Now why cant you make up a false
accusation about a teacher who you didnt like and think about how it could be
defended when you put yourself in either persons shoes.

After reading the below, at least you will learn why some men and women get so
angry at mothers breastfeeding in public considering the sexual connotations.

Levin, Roy J. (May 2006), "The breast/nipple/areola complex and human
sexuality". Sexual & Relationship Therapy. 21 (2):237–249.

    
    
        p240-241 wrote:
        Approximately 33 to 50% of mothers described breast feeding as an erotic experience, while some 25% expressed guilt because of the sexual excitement that they felt (von Sydow, 1999). In a few cases the arousal is strong enough to induce orgasm which causes some nursing mothers to abandon breast feeding because of the sexual stimulation (Dickinson, 1949, p. 67; Masters & Johnson, 1966, p. 162). In a questionnaire on orgasm and pregnancy published in a Dutch magazine for women, Gianotten (1988) asked ‘‘Did you experience, while breastfeeding, a sensation of sexual excitement’’, 34% (total n¼153) answered ‘‘Yes’’ and to the question ‘‘Did you experience, while breastfeeding, pleasurable contractions in the uterine region’’, 71% answered ‘‘Yes’’. Of these 153 women who had been breastfeeding who replied to the question ‘‘Did you experience, while breast feeding an orgasm (during or as the result of breastfeeding)’’, 12 (8%) answered ‘‘Yes’’. Ignorance about such normal physiological occurrences can sometimes create gross miscarriages of the law. According to Yalom (1997, p. 254), a mother in Syracuse, New York in 1992 had her two-year-old child taken away from her after admitting that she became aroused on nursing, the authorities claiming that she sexually abused the child. A judge found there was no case and after 8 months the child was returned to the custody not of her mother, but of her grandparents!

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ajuc
The movie is available legally for free on youtube:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrUvQ3W3nV4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrUvQ3W3nV4)

There are English subtitles.

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the_pwner224
Not very related, but I found this excellent yet sad news story via HN search
half a year back:
[https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/christinekenneally/orph...](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/christinekenneally/orphanage-
death-catholic-abuse-nuns-st-josephs)

It's a long read but IMO was worth it.

It seems to be a long-running trend for Churches and similar religious
organizations to do this sort of stuff.

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avgDev
Poland is insanely religious. I grew up in Poland and moved to US with my
parents at age of 14. I became an atheist. Recently, I visited Poland, and was
amazed that people my age are still mostly religious.

Recently, I read a story about people who took down a statue of a priest who
molested children. There was an outcry and some politician had the statue put
back in its place. That is just so twisted. Many people I talked to in Poland
don't want to even discuss church and systematic protection of pedophiles. It
makes them very uneasy but they want to ignore it i guess?

~~~
ajuc
The problem with that particular statue was procedural - they illegally took
down that statue before the city council decided what to do with it as the
accusations appeared. I can understand why these people did it - they can be
frustrated after decades of being ignored.

The late president of Gdańsk said they will take it down, but it takes time
for the procedure, and the activists took it down themselves before that. So
they will probably put it back and then take it down legally. As funny as this
sounds Gdańsk is very liberal for Poland.

But, generally I agree - Poland is crazy religious, and the problem with that
particular priest was that he knew all the highest officials in Poland,
including even presidents. He was the Solidarity priest, that participated in
the protests against communism. At first it was almost a national betrayal to
say anything bad about him (because he was a figure of anti-communism
opposition), then after communism failed he knew presidents and prime
ministers and who would act on these accusations.

So he died without being officially accused, and now it's hard to even get
people to remove the statues...

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david927
Here's another great documentary that reflects the efforts of the Catholic
Church historically to not only hide the offense and move the alleged
perpetrator, but would often move them back to positions where the abuse could
take place again:

The Keepers

[https://www.netflix.com/title/80122179](https://www.netflix.com/title/80122179)

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devoply
Tell sexual humans not to be sexual due to some made up non-sense myths and
put them in positions of power and authority, what could possibly go wrong?
They want to stop child abuse, and sure who is not for that, but how about
stopping myth abuse?

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kleiba
I'm personally not convinced by the often exerted narrative that celibacy
leads to pedophilia. It seems to me that a more likely explanation is that
someone with a certain inclination would seek out a job (perhaps even
subconsciously) that may offer him a chance to get closer to living out that
inclination.

~~~
dmurray
It's probably a bit of both. Homosexuality is, at least stereotypically, more
common in environments where there are no other options, like sailing ships
and prisons, even in cultures where it is strongly taboo. It's a small leap to
say the same could apply to paedophilia.

~~~
SketchySeaBeast
I wonder if there's value in seperating homosexuality, the sexual
preference/identity, from the act - I feel like in many of those "no other
options" scenarios there probably wouldn't be a lot of identifying as
homosexual, nor a preference for homosexual acts, but instead as acts of
sexual pragmatism.

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maxxxxx
Any other organization with that behavior that is not a church would already
have been shut down worldwide and leadership would be in jail. I hope that
believers will put pressure on the church to clean up its act.

~~~
ajuc
So far believers (and the government which is in bed with Catholic Church
here) cry it's "an attack on the church".

EDIT: someone even flagged this.

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mzs
This is an AP story:
[https://www.apnews.com/14f374e7c6a340e6bbf543223f968006](https://www.apnews.com/14f374e7c6a340e6bbf543223f968006)

~~~
dang
Ok, we'll switch to that from
[https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2019/05/13/world/europe/ap-...](https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2019/05/13/world/europe/ap-
eu-poland-church-sex-abuse.html).

