
Russian Spy Planes In US Skies - smaili
https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-spy-planes-u-skies-025817534--politics.html
======
dingaling
If the USA denies access to this aircraft then the whole 30+ nation Open Skies
treaty will basically collapse.

The point of it is that each nation is able to monitor each other, within
prescribed limits to number and duration of overflights and sensor resolution.

I mean there isn't even a basis for this objection; the USA's OC-135s that
participate in Open Skies are already fitted with synthetic-aperture radars (
SAROS ) and it's explicitly permitted in the Treaty:

 _Open Skies aircraft can be equipped with four types of sensors: optical
panoramic and framing cameras; video cameras; infrared line-scanning devices;
and sideways-looking synthetic aperture radars._

But the Russkies are fitting digital cameras! Those sneaky buggers. The
OC-135s still use film cameras... embarrassing.

~~~
nnq

      'digital cameras' == 'real-time intelligence'
      'film cameras' == 'non-real-time intelligence'
    

...not a big deal untill you imagine something like ARGUS
([http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/146909-darpa-shows-
off-1-...](http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/146909-darpa-shows-
off-1-8-gigapixel-surveillance-drone-can-spot-a-terrorist-from-20000-feet))
over your country _...now THIS has good reasons to freak you out if you 're in
the spy business :)_

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logfromblammo
American authorities flip out when reporters from a print newspaper take
photographs from a public road of a tank in front of a tank manufacturing
plant--something that is obviously on display to the public--for use as stock
photos the next time the paper needs to run a related story.

This just shows that they are hypersensitive and irrational about photography
of any kind, whether it has actual intelligence value or not. That makes me
suspicious that they are hiding something from us, perhaps something they fear
that the Russians might reveal to the American public. But that could be just
my foil hat talking.

Mutually assured surveillance seems a less dangerous baseline than mutually
assured destruction, anyway.

~~~
huxley
"The Official Secrets Act is not to protect secrets, it is to protect
officials." \- Humphrey Appleby, "Yes, Minister"

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csandreasen
It's worth noting that the Russians have already set precedent for denying
access to their air space under this treaty by canceling scheduled US
surveillance flights during the build up on the Crimean border.

[http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/17/russia-
blocks-...](http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/17/russia-blocks-us-
treaty-approved-spy-flights/)

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oijaf888
Isn't that picture of helicopters? Do Russians somehow stage and fly
helicopters in the US whereas we use OC-135s?

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lotsofmangos
Presumably, if Russia upgrades the observation planes, then the US can as
well.

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tokenadult
As the article notes, the practice in question is governed by the Open Skies
Treaty.[1] The treaty[2] allows party countries to review which aircraft types
are permitted overflight rights under the treaty. So if the United States
initially objects to a new type of aircraft doing overflights, it is simply
exercising its rights under the treaty. This is an issue for international
negotiation by diplomats. As in most matters of diplomacy, how the specific
issues are resolved in this review will be determined in part by what each
side has to offer the other in terms of reciprocity--does the United States
get to fly enhanced aircraft over the territory of other countries, or not?

"Article V

"AIRCRAFT DESIGNATION

"1\. Each State Party shall have the right to designate as observation
aircraft one or more types or models of aircraft registered by the relevant
authorities of a State Party.

"2\. Each State Party shall have the right to designate types or models of
aircraft as observation aircraft or add new types or models of aircraft to
those designated earlier by it, provided that it notifies all other States
Parties 30 days in advance thereof. The notification of the designation of
aircraft of a type or model shall contain the information specified in Annex C
to this Treaty."

. . . .

"Article VI

"CHOICE OF OBSERVATION AIRCRAFT, GENERAL PROVISIONS FOR THE CONDUCT OF
OBSERVATION FLIGHTS, AND REQUIREMENTS FOR MISSION PLANNING

"SECTION I. CHOICE OF OBSERVATION AIRCRAFT AND GENERAL PROVISIONS FOR THE
CONDUCT OF OBSERVATION FLIGHTS

"1\. Observation flights shall be conducted using observation aircraft that
have been designated by a State Party pursuant to Article V. Unless the
observed Party exercises its right to provide an observation aircraft that it
has itself designated, the observing Party shall have the right to provide the
observation aircraft. In the event that the observing Party provides the
observation aircraft, it shall have the right to provide an aircraft that it
has itself designated or an aircraft designated by another State Party. In the
event that the observed Party provides the observation aircraft, the observing
Party shall have the right to be provided with an aircraft capable of
achieving a minimum unrefuelled range, including the necessary fuel reserves,
equivalent to one-half of the flight distance, as notified in accordance with
paragraph 5, subparagraph(G) of this Section.

. . . .

"Article VIII

"PROHIBITIONS, DEVIATIONS FROM FLIGHT PLANS AND EMERGENCY SITUATIONS

"SECTION I. PROHIBITION OF OBSERVATION FLIGHTS AND CHANGES TO MISSION PLANS

"1\. The observed Party shall have the right to prohibit an observation flight
that is not in compliance with the provisions of this Treaty.

. . . .

"ANNEX C

"INFORMATION ON OBSERVATION AIRCRAFT

Pursuant to the provisions of Article V, paragraph 2 of the Treaty, States
Parties, when designating aircraft as observation aircraft, shall notify all
other States Parties of the information specified below.

"1\. Identification:

"(A) type and model; and

"(B) number, category, type and configuration of each sensor installed on the
observation aircraft, as provided in accordance with the provisions of Annex B
to the Treaty;"

[1]
[http://www.state.gov/t/avc/cca/os/index.htm](http://www.state.gov/t/avc/cca/os/index.htm)

[2]
[http://www.state.gov/t/avc/trty/102337.htm](http://www.state.gov/t/avc/trty/102337.htm)

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ajmarsh
Anybody know what type of plane the Russians want to overfly us with?

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notastartup
why did they agree to this? This would've been unthinkable 30 years ago.

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mladenkovacevic
The Russians are coming, the Russians are coming!!

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fixermark
"THIS IS AN OUTRAGEOUS VIOLATION OF U.S. AIRSPACE, AND WE WILL NOT TOLERATE
IT."

~Someone who hasn't been paying attention to how the United States has been
deploying its own air resources for over half a century

~~~
dang
Per the site guidelines, please don't use all-caps on HN. Sorry, no irony
exemption.

~~~
tptacek
I downvoted you to turn your comment into a referendum on the irony exemption,
whose judicious application I support.

~~~
dang
The caps may be ironic, but the pain they cause is all too real.

