
Apple’s new MacBook Pro kills off most of the ports you probably need - bootload
https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/27/apples-new-macbook-pro-just-killed-off-most-of-the-ports-you-probably-need/
======
kabdib
It's pretty bad. We use YubiKeys a lot, and there are no ports for them.

So sad.

Also: Magsafe is _great_ (it's saved my bacon a few times). Gone. ESC key,
gone. Don't know about the keyboard yet, but everything I've read doesn't
point to it being decent.

Probably not buying this generation of MacBooks. Might just bite the bullet
and finally go to Linux on some decent hardware.

So, what's a decent laptop for running Linux? Good keyboard, good trackpad
support, good sound . . .

~~~
eridius
I really don't understand why everybody seems to think the Escape key is so
important. I almost never hit mine, and since the Touch Bar has a virtual
escape key, I don't really see the problem. The best I can figure is everybody
complaining is a Vim user, but if you're a Vim user I don't know why you
haven't already replaced the cumbersome Escape key with something easier, like
binding `jk`, or binding Caps Lock to Control and then using Control-[.

So can you explain why everybody is so upset that they don't have a physical
Escape key?

~~~
nathanaldensr
Your argument consists of "people who don't work like I do are wrong" and you
imply they should pay the price... for using a key that's been ubiquitous
since the beginning of computing time.

~~~
010a
You could say the same thing for removing serial ports, or floppy drives, or
CD drives. People used them when Apple got rid of them. People whined. Apple
still did it. We don't miss them anymore.

Its possible Apple could go too far, but I don't think its fair to say Apple
did anything wrong _yet_. They're always early on removing this stuff, but
they've never been wrong. Literally never.

~~~
falcolas
Ooh, there's a reference to floppy drives. Apple distortion reality bingo hit!

I miss my CD drive. On a almost daily basis. USB drive to the rescue, oh,
wait. Serial ports are fantastic for interfacing with low level electronics.
USB dongle for, oh, wait.

> but they've never been wrong. Literally never.

Riiight. That's why they sell so many dongles which replace all of these
missing parts.

------
franciscop
It's funny how Americans (USA) use the freedom as in this situation "they are
necessary connections that offer you freedom" but don't even realize that's
the same " _freedom_ " they are stuck in the Imperial system; lack of
standardization.

I for once welcome these changes; if companies were not brave enough to let go
of old ports to standarize the USB we'd be stuck in the _old days_ with dozens
of dongles. At the speed of USB-C adoption, in ~5 years I hope it's the most
used port and in ~10-15 I hope not to need any other port for _any_
peripheral.

I wrote a small article about USB-C adoption:
[https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/27/apples-new-macbook-pro-
jus...](https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/27/apples-new-macbook-pro-just-killed-
off-most-of-the-ports-you-probably-need/)

~~~
dsr_
You mean instead of the new days with dozens of dongles?

Gigabit ethernet. Video converters for each external monitor type, plus for
the projector that you only use twice a year. The external mouse that you
really like. The phone. The 2TB USB3 hard disk that you already have. The
external DAC and pre-amp that turned your Mac into a high-quality 4 channel
recorder. The non-bluetooth wireless mouse that you like so much better than
Apple's. The SD card for the video camera that your kids use.

~~~
franciscop
_Now_ you have to carry dozens of dongles, but the objective is long-term. I
almost never need VGA/DisplayPort/etc for instance because it was standardized
to HDMI (and now to USB-C). What port does that non-bluetooth mouse use? USB,
right? Well before you'd have to check, because it could be using a PS2 as the
keyboard. But now you know for sure they use USB if they use any port, which
is a good thing. I remember my older cousin complaining about me having a USB
mouse when I should have a PS/2 back in the day.

Forgot your phone/laptop charger? You can borrow mine as it will be the same
USB-C. Yes, now it's painful, but in ~10 years it will be glorious. However,
the problems of the switch are happening now while the benefits will come
unannounced, which is a pity.

~~~
WalterSear
In ten years, Apple will have already issued ten different formats of phone
and laptop chargers.

------
kobayashi
Throughly enjoyed the Apple ecosystem for the past 13 years. Multiple
AirPorts, Watch, iPhones, iPads, Macs. Never have I ever been so extremely
disappointed with Apple. Actually, I'm not sure that I've ever before been
rather disappointed Apple. I wasn't a fan of the Sierra release because I
don't like using Siri but ultimately it didn't ruin then OS, it was just a new
feature that I wouldn't use.

But now? The pricing is insane. The max at 16GB of RAM is a joke. I was
looking to buy a MacBook to last me years of heavy power-use. Has Apple
forgotten about me?

~~~
minikites
When the Mac is less than 10% of their revenue, why should they bother to
care? They can coast on their reputation and they have a captive audience of
iOS developers who will buy any Mac because they have to.

~~~
kobayashi
This was a company that said they cared. That made products which were far and
away better than the competitors. I paid the Apple Tax, but it was worth it
because I didn't have Windows headaches and because I had a better quality
system that was truly optimized for both easy use and for power users. It was
great. I actually feel crushed by this news. I valued the trust I had in
Apple.

And I don't say all of this lightly. I've read the threads the occur after
every major Apple release. They're always replete with naysayers. I've never
been one of those people. This seems different.

~~~
minikites
I come from a similar background but I started to feel this way a bit sooner,
near the beginning of this year, when I realized that almost all of Apple's
computers were 2-3 years out of date. The Mac Pro hasn't been updated in any
way since 2013. The Mac Mini is almost as old. They used to do "silent speed
bumps" all the time to keep up with technology advances without the needless
expense and effort to redesign everything every 8-12 months. So if they can't
even put in the minimal effort to ship a newer processor, why should we expect
actual greatness at this point?

~~~
kobayashi
I held out hope for this reveal. Did I mention that I'm tremendously
disappointed?

~~~
minikites
I think since I came to our shared conclusion sooner, I did not hold out hope,
as it was replaced by cynicism.

------
rayiner
I'm okay with the port situation--there is an elegance to the 4 completely
symmetrical USB-C ports. Also super excited to ditch Magsafe. It'll be awesome
to be able to just replace a USB-C charger cable instead of the whole brick
when it inevitably frays.

I'm bummed out about the huge reduction in battery capacity. The 13" model
loses 1/3, and the 15" loses 1/4\. With the addition of the touch bar, this
will probably be the first MBP to see a battery life regression.

~~~
rashkov
wouldn't you still need a brick at the other end of that usb-c cable?

Very surprised to hear of the battery capacity reduction. Is that confirmed? I
haven't looked at the numbers. Anyway, I always felt like that is a red line
that Apple would not cross.

~~~
rayiner
The USB-C charger is like the iPad charger--the USB-C cable detaches.

The battery capacity is under "tech specs."

Up to 10 hours wireless web Up to 10 hours iTunes movie playback Up to 30 days
standby time Built-in 76.0-watt-hour lithium-polymer battery 87W USB-C Power
Adapter

Up to 10 hours wireless web Up to 10 hours iTunes movie playback Up to 30 days
of standby time Built-in 49.2-watt-hour lithium-polymer battery 61W USB-C
Power Adapter

~~~
rashkov
Thanks very much. I was on a phone so I couldn't look this up as much as I
liked. Much appreciated

------
eibrahim
So disappointed. I had my wallet ready to order but this is no different than
my current MBP.

A half baked touch screen!!! Not worth the $3500 I was going to drop on a new
MBP.

I can't imagine going back to windows because I enjoy the terminal and vim but
seriously considering it specially that now I can run bash on windows

~~~
douche
It's really quite absurd to spend $3500 on a laptop. That's baffling.

That's more than the down-payment on my pickup truck.

That's more than we paid for the last two blade servers at work, that have a
combined 96 cores and, I think, 288 GB of RAM.

That's just a little less than the seven laptops I have owned in my entire
life.

~~~
criddell
The laptop is a tool that many people use all day everyday. If the machine
lasts you three years, that's about $5 per day which is pretty affordable.

If playing with software is your hobby, then spending $3500 over a couple of
years on your hobby isn't outrageous. I know people that play guitar for fun
and they wouldn't think twice about dropping that much on a used guitar.

------
noahmbarr
For odd some reason, I find myself most annoyed by the headphone situation,
aka, lack of Lightning jack.

Why not just make the iPhone 7 USB-C instead?

~~~
bluthru
>Why not just make the iPhone 7 USB-C instead?

It's too thick going forward. It's already too thick for the Pencil.

~~~
rashkov
Sorry could you elaborate? Not understanding what you mean. Very much
wondering the answer to this question

~~~
VelNZ
The USB-C plug is larger than the Lightning plug. Putting a USB-C plug on the
Apple Pencil would have made it not as sleek.

------
unclenoriega
MagSafe was one of my favorite things about Apple laptops. I'm sorry to see
that go.

~~~
sandipc
Here's an alternative... surprised Apple didn't introduce something similar
today [https://griffintechnology.com/us/breaksafe-magnetic-usb-c-
po...](https://griffintechnology.com/us/breaksafe-magnetic-usb-c-power-cable)

~~~
unclenoriega
Thanks, that looks nice.

------
mattbroekhuis
I was hoping for more RAM capacity. I don't really run into issues but I feel
like I've been running 16 for 8 years or something like that.

~~~
toyg
Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous. The chipset now accepts up to 64gb, there are
plenty of similarly-thin laptops on the market already shipping with 32gb --
there is just no excuse for not having a 32gb option in a flagship model in
2016. It might come with a refresh after Christmas, maybe, but to be honest
today I've just lost patience with Apple.

------
ufmace
Looks like apple is indeed going all-in on USB-C. What's interesting is:

> People won’t even be able to physically connect their iPhones to Apple’s
> flagship laptops without a $25 new cord.

I wonder if this means that Apple's going to switch the iPhone and iPad over
to USB-C? It'd be a pain for everybody invested in Lightning ports, but
Android phones seem to be slowly converging on it. It'd be pretty cool if
USB-C became a real standard port for everything. And they have done it
before, when they switched to Lightning in the first place.

~~~
valine
I was really hoping the iPhone 7 would ship with usb-c. But after watching
Apple promote their lighting headphones I can't really see them switching to
USB-c in the foreseeable future.

------
manyxcxi
I've got a Cinema Display, though it's been relegated to my second monitor it
is pretty nice to have all my cables routed cleanly to that and just plug in
the MagSafe/T2 connection and my MiniDP connection from my big monitor every
morning and just be done with it.

Some cursory searches suggest I'll be anywhere from $80-150 in getting a
Thunderbolt 3 -> Thunderbolt 2 adapter. This, just to get back to even after
an upgrade.

I love my MBP, I've gotten one every other year since 2008, except for that
time I lost my laptop bag off the motorcycle on the freeway. It's the best
blend (for me) of *nix and 'Just Works'. I can't even fathom going back to
Windows, but I might go see what Ubuntu, Mint, and Fedora desktops look like
these days, and I hear Dell has some decent upper end hardware again...

~~~
__david__
> Some cursory searches suggest I'll be anywhere from $80-150 in getting a
> Thunderbolt 3 -> Thunderbolt 2 adapter.

It's $49 on Apple's store:
[http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMEL2AM/A/thunderbolt-3-us...](http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMEL2AM/A/thunderbolt-3-usb-
c-to-thunderbolt-2-adapter?fnode=85)

~~~
manyxcxi
Well I guess I should've looked straight at the source first!

------
quantumhobbit
So who is making good laptops that run Linux well these days?

~~~
chimeracoder
Dell. The Dell XPS 13 is the best line of laptops I've owned. They come with
Linux preinstalled, and all the drivers that they write to support the
hardware are pushed upstream to the kernel, so you can run whatever distro you
want.

~~~
ethbro
Seconded. I picked one up off Dell Outlet as a disposable machine, but it ends
up going with me more than anything else. Actually having Dell dedicate
support resources to Linux makes a huge difference in compatibility too.

------
Matachines
Heh, my "upgrade" planned for this year is going to be a maxed out 2015
Macbook. Hope it lasts forever.

------
smrtinsert
Apple, there is no ESC!

~~~
majewsky
Well, there is, but it's not real. :)

------
Yodoshi
Even worse is that there is no real option if you're developing for IOS.

Imac is a no go due to not wanting desktop and other macbooks don't seem the
right type for heavy multitasking, compiling etc.

It's MBP or bust.

~~~
usaphp
Can you tell me you usage scenario if you are a developer for iOS, what
exactly is prohibiting you from using this new generation of MacBook pros? I
have not used my USB or hdmi ports on my 15" retina for years, the only port I
am using is the thunderbolt to connect 4K display, but the only time I am
using it is when I am at my desk, attaching a dongle to the desk monitor is
quite easy and solves the only possibly issue I might have...seems like most
people who complain here are just trying to find a reason to complain

~~~
Yodoshi
It's not that im prohibited from developing, its that the value proposition of
a macbook pro is going down and I have no other option other than a macbook
pro, all these changes are detrimental to me and I have no alternative.

Can't use (now) old magsafe, can't simply connect hdmi to current screen
without an adaptor, yubikey will be useless and will need a replacement,
adaptor for headphones because I use hd598s and will never use wireless
headphones, need to get used to new f keys when using vscode shortcuts when
meddling with non ios or react native code.

Nothing is a death knell, but feels like they're choosing a death by 1000
paper cuts with these incremental changes.

I honestly can't point to a gain except maybe able to click on a emote faster
using the magic bar and other odds and sods that a magic bar offers.

~~~
grzm
What's your current set up? Is there something about what you're using now
that prevents you from continuing to use it going forward?

~~~
Yodoshi
Macbook pro (2014) and a windows desktop.

3 screens.

usually connect 2 screens to my macbook (hdmi & display port) along with my
k70 keyboard and my g600 mouse.

Im mainly good, I keep my F keys when im at my desk, only when im mobile and
about they go and never done any heavy lifting through that way.

I don't understand how people are treating this as if im the grim reaper
taking a swing at the macbook pro 2016.

It's just many different annoying things that I don't see the positive side to
losing, can someone point to the positive side?

~~~
grzm
I don't think you're the grim reaper :) Personally, I'm reacting to statements
you've made like:

 _" there is no real option if you're developing for IOS"_

 _" other macbooks don't seem the right type for heavy multitasking"_

 _" the value proposition of a macbook pro is going down"_

Those read like universal absolutes rather than nuanced criticisms. You do
make a point with respect to adapters. I've been using Apple laptops since my
first G3 (that's not me trying to display street cred, just trying to
establish that I've been through a lot of different port changes over the
years).

And that's why I asked about your current setup. If you're currently
developing for iOS and it's working fine, then one option is to keep using
what you have. If you have a legitimate reason to need to upgrade, i.e.,
developer tools you need to use are no longer supported for your machine,
that's a legitimate complaint. If you want a new machine because you want the
new hotness (and hey, that can be fun), but the new hotness doesn't match your
expectations, well, I'm sorry you're disappointed. That however is different
from "no real option" or "not the right type".

Another option for you to consider is buy one of the current gen machines or a
refurbished model. Might be a compromise that works for you.

~~~
Yodoshi
Thank you for your insight (G3 is a long time), genuinely helpful and levelled
my head out!

I never meant them in absolute terms, it's just me venting that im missing
reasons to want this version (after always wanting a mac after any keynote in
the past but never being able to afford when back then) after waiting a little
while and just disappointed this time around.

~~~
grzm
That G3 was a beast :) Swappable batteries, drives, all kinds of stuff. And so
heavy!

Glad to share my thoughts, and glad to help. I can understand the
disappointment, too. I wish there were some MagSafe-like feature. I like the
larger trackpad. I like the opportunities the Touch Bar provides, though I
will miss the physical escape key and the hardware volume keys and brightness
keys. Force Touch for the Touch Bar would be great. I'd also like to see more
RAM available. But, that's not what's available now, and what I've got is good
enough for at least another couple of years.

Hope you can find a good solution for your next system!

------
AvenueIngres
Recently bought a Macbook Pro Retina (3 months ago), the charging cable is
already dying and the ethernet - usb adapter they provide is utter crap. Each
of those cost an arm and honestly, maintenance costs isn't something I
factored in when I bought this 1800$ laptop.

All around, the laptop is OK but not great. That experience really contrasts
the very positive one I had five years ago. What went wrong? How can basic
manufacturing quality tank this hard in such a small timeframe? Did they fire
the wrong guy?

~~~
ploxiln
I've used a few usb ethernet adapters over the years, and the most reliable
and performant one in my experience is the StarTech USB31000S which is based
on the ASIX AX88179.

It's been around for a few years so the driver for it is included in all
recent linux distros, and you can download surprisingly up-to-date and
maintained drivers for OS X and windows from the chip manufacturer's website:
[http://www.asix.com.tw/products.php?op=pItemdetail&PItemID=1...](http://www.asix.com.tw/products.php?op=pItemdetail&PItemID=131;71;112&PLine=71)

I use it mostly with OS X. I've actually bought about 5 of them, because some
coworkers had problems that turned out to be caused by flaky usb ethernet
adapters, and it was well worth my debugging time to get them better (but
still cheap!) hardware.

------
elchief
I'm okay with the ports but 16 GB max RAM is a f-in joke. My mom's computer
has 16 GB of RAM

~~~
flukus
What exactly are you and you're mum doing that necessitates more than 16GB?

~~~
manyxcxi
40 browser tabs, two build daemons (gulp and gradle), three IntelliJ ultimate
instances, 2 vagrant VMs, 3 more vagrant VMs I forgot to shut down, Spotify,
Tomcat, and an IntelliJ debug Tomcat.

And that was just what my mom was running!

~~~
AvenueIngres
But then where do you store the nuclear waste from the reactor you had to set-
up in your backyard to power your macbook?

------
d3ckard
Honestly, ports is one thing in new MacBooks I do not understand why everyone
seems to nag about. Right, you will likely need some accessories for now. But
in two years, when basically everything will work on USB-C and your computer
will be in half of reasonable lifetime, it will be a bliss. I hate port
multiplication and I'm happy Apple is in the front of moving to one standard.

On the other hand, I cannot seem to understand decision behind MagSafe, card
reader and keyboard. Why? Everybody with a MacBook has a story about MagSafe
saving his laptop from a fall. Cards are important for many people and they
are not likely to go away. Esc is important and it could be incorporated in
the new design - if they wanted to get rid of function keys, they could go
all-in and just change the whole freaking design.

Also, I do not get their priorities. They made thing thinner, but I would much
more appreciate if they made it smaller (smaller as bezel-free display like
Dell did). I would gladly accept a bit thicker MacBook, if they put better
battery in it and even better fans, so it stays cool.

------
dlevine
To be fair, if you need these ports, it is easy to get a hub that provides
them: [https://www.amazon.com/HyperDrive-Through-Charging-
MacBook-C...](https://www.amazon.com/HyperDrive-Through-Charging-MacBook-
Chromebook/dp/B01BUHY5DY)

And over the next several years, it is likely that people will switch to USB-C
peripherals.

~~~
BigJono
I'm completely out of the loop here. Why would peripheral makers choose USB-C
over USB 3?

~~~
choudanu4
USB-C and USB-3 aren't mutually exclusive. One describes the shape (Type-A,
Type-C) of the connector. The other describes the speeds supported by the port
(USB2, USB3, USB3.1).

------
israrkhan
No Magsafe? it was one of the coolest feature on macbooks. No HDMI? No USB
ports? No SD card? No Escape key.. negatively impact vi/vim experience.

Basically they want you to buy adapters for everything (maybe next version
will also drop the audio jack).

and they call it a step forward? Surface book looks a lot better to me despite
lacking in graphics specs.

~~~
dingo_bat
I think surface book graphics are better but I'm not sure.

------
del82
I genuinely don't understand the drive to make all these sacrifices just to
make the computer a couple millimeters thinner. Are there people who look at
the previous generation of MBP and said "that's too thick"? If so, why?

~~~
minikites
I forget who said this, but "Apple used to make good products that were mostly
thin and now they make thin products that are mostly good."

------
diegorbaquero
Really disappointed, seems like they are forcing 2020 connectors in 2016

~~~
revelation
USB-C isn't some new fancy connector technology that will fully mature in
2020, it's just USB3 + power + pass-through for a bunch of other connectors.

It's not a new connector, it's a connector transformer rather. Only that
doesn't actually work in practice, you can't connect four HDMI<->USB-C adapter
to the four USB-C ports of the MBP and expect them all to work. Similarly, I
can't imagine you can connect four power supplies simultaneously and have it
charge through all of them. Add a bunch of other similar non-obvious
restrictions.

~~~
honkhonkpants
Why can't I do that? GPU can't drive five displays?

~~~
honkhonkpants
Answering my own question: this late-2016 MacBook Pro does support four
external monitors using its four USB-C ports.

------
ant6n
I wish they'd just replaced 2 thunderbolt ports and magsave with 3 usb-c ports
(leaving two usb, a hdmi port and sd card reader), made the screen matte, gave
me 32gb and a fanless design.

~~~
eridius
Fanless design means performance is seriously crippled. The fact that the
fanless MacBook works at all is impressive.

~~~
ant6n
Well, finally a worthwhile problem for Apple to solve. They're pretty good at
solving engineering issues, they've mostly been focussed on making shit
thinner though.

~~~
nickjarboe
I wonder how much thinner helps with heat dissipation?

------
milesf
Third-party cables, docks, and maybe even specialty slim side dongles will
fill the gap quite nicely. I'll still wait for the second iteration of this
lot simply because I've been bit too many times in the past by first-gen Apple
products.

I'm going to let time decide for me if this is a good decision or not. For
decades I have grumped about the death of so many things, that in the end they
didn't really matter.

------
noahmbarr
Next up, $500 external keyboard with Touch Bar?

~~~
snowwrestler
Seems like they'll have to do an external keyboard with a touch strip, so that
folks can access the cool UI stuff when they're docked at a big display.

------
Inconel
I wish they would have kept MagSafe in addition to adding charging via USB-C.
I doubt MagSafe adds much cost to the BOM or that it would have presented much
of an engineering challenge to keep both. It seems like that solution would
have pleased most people while also keeping a unique selling point for
MacBooks.

------
yladiz
One thing I find annoying is in a lot of their promo images and images I've
seen from various first looks, the escape key isn't at the very edge of the
touch pad. Why couldn't they have just made a flush key on the left like they
did with the TouchID sensor on the right? Now you have to hope that clicking
the escape key without looking works, unless there's ways around it.

Thankfully I don't have any plans or any need to upgrade my laptop anytime
soon, but I will miss the SD card slot and the HDMI output slot if I end up
upgrading to a new MacBook Pro in the future. Was it really that much space to
keep the SD card? It's thinner than the headphone jack and the headphone jack
is still there.

I'll also be a little curious how the teardown looks. The MacBook uses up
barely any space inside of the chassis for motherboard (barely larger than a
phone motherboard), and I'm curious how much space the MacBook Pro uses...

------
toyg
I could have got over the ports loss -- or even turned it into a net positive
by finally buying a dock (I literally use _all ports_ on my 2012 mbpr).

... but I'm not going through the pain just to "enjoy" a machine that is only
marginally faster than what I already have (which still works perfectly fine),
with a paltry 16gb of ram and a crappy gpu, and spending _almost twice_ what
direct competitors would charge _for better hardware without the ports
hassle_.

Who enjoys getting mugged?

------
atomical
I want all my devices to use USB.

