
Detroit News Vehicle of the Year is a Tesla - rmason
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/columnists/henry-payne/2018/12/26/detroit-news-vehicle-year/2379185002/
======
throwaway98121
We sold our vehicle because the monthly payment, insurance, gasoline, and
parking costs were adding up to about $1000 a month.

I planned on downgrading from an Infiniti to a 3 year old Honda Civic or Fit.

I visited three dealerships in my area. The experience was horrible at all
three. I consider myself a decent person, but I now judge people who work in
car sales or car sales management and not in a good way.

Anyway, it’s been a year since we sold that vehicle. Our total transit costs
this year have been < $1000 according to mint. Luckily we use a combination of
mass transit and just walking places. The mass transit in my city isn’t that
great, but it’s still thousands of dollars cheaper than the hassle of car
ownership.

There’s no way I’d pay $40K-$50K for a vehicle to buy a Tesla. That being
said, I hope the dealership model dies and these blood sucking, anti
competitive conmen have to fall to a more honest way of living.

~~~
Zanni
For those that haven't had the Tesla experience, it's a refreshing change of
pace. They don't have dealerships, only showrooms and service centers. You can
schedule a test drive at a showroom (or online), and your rep will be happy to
help you configure your car right there if you decide to buy, but you can also
go home and leisurely plan your configuration over the internet. You can see
the price of every option before you add it, and when you're through, you get
an _exact_ total that you can pay through the website. No pressure, no
haggling, no upgrades. When your car is ready, you pick it up at the service
center. That's it. The cars aren't cheap, but the buying process is the most
pleasant I've ever experienced.

~~~
ams6110
Believe me, any dealer will happily escort you thru a similar order process if
you're paying list price.

~~~
paranoidrobot
Problem is, some people don't want to be "escorted", they just want to be able
to look through the options and pick for themselves.

One family member bought a Mazda, and then two months later it was stolen from
their home, stripped for parts and burned.

Insurance would only pay out in the form of a cheque to a dealer, and the
dealer would only deal in-person, even when told they just wanted an exact
replacement for the previous car. The sales guy wanted the opportunity to
upsell on some other feature, rather than take the guaranteed sale.

Even now, with the advent of the internet, it's stupidly difficult to figure
out what options are available, their pricing, etc and to configure a car. Oh
no, you have to visit the dealer to know all that. Bullshit, the dealer's
doing it online, why can't I?

------
rmason
Michigan legislators waited until 2 am to pass a controversial law not
allowing Tesla to setup showrooms in the state. The state's car dealership
organization and General Motors spent big money to make this happen.

[https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15360613/unplugged-
michig...](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15360613/unplugged-michigan-
governor-signs-gm-supported-anti-tesla-bill-into-law/)

Tesla already has a tool and die operation in Grand Rapids. They've even
expressed interest in acquiring a closed GM plant in Detroit yet the state
stands in rare bipartisan opposition to them ever selling cars here. The
nearest place to order a Tesla is Cleveland, Ohio

~~~
jaimex2
If that isn't corruption I don't know what is.

~~~
apercu
Yep. That's corruption.

------
mdeeks
I was surprised by some of the cost benefits of EV. I did a rough total cost
of ownership for my wife's Model 3 vs my Audi A4. Over five years (@17k miles
per year) it came out to the Model 3 being ~$10k cheaper than the A4 despite
the Model 3 having a higher sticker price.

Because I know it will come up, I know these prices are not reasonable for
most people and certainly far from the promised $35k. This is just a
comparison for the Luxury segment we were shopping for.

My TCO notes below if you're curious or have feedback on things I'm missing:

    
    
        Fuel costs for Audi A4
        567 Gallons Gas 		: Assuming ~30 MPG
        * $3.64/gal			: Premium grade in SF, CA
        = $2063 / year
    
        Fuel costs for Tesla M3
        4116 kWh	 Electricity	: 4.13 miles/kWh (310 miles range / 75kWh battery) 
        * $0.13046/kWh		: PG&E off-peak rates (Winter, after 11pm)
        = $537 / year
    
        Tesla Fuel savings = $1526 / year
    
        Tesla Model 3 costs/rebate break down
        $ 56500		: Total cost (out the door)
        + 2685		: Electricity cost over 5 years
        + 1750		: Home charging plug installation + permit
        - 7500		: Federal tax credit
        - 2500		: California rebate
        - 500		: PG&E rebate
        + 5605		: Insurance cost over 5 years
        + ?			: Maintenance & Repair (Unknown, but expected to be much less than Audi)
        ---
        = $56040	: Grand total
    
        Audi A4 costs break down
        $ 50226		: Total cost (out the door)
        + 10315		: Gas cost over 5 years
        + 5845		: Insurance cost over 5 years
        + ?			: Maintenance & Repair (Unknown, but expected to be much more than Tesla)
        ---
        = $66386	: Grand total
    
        Tesla Model 3 is at least $10,346 cheaper for her to own over 5 years.
    
        Notes: 
        - This doesn't include resale value though articles I've seen mention that Tesla's hold their value as well or better than most Luxury cars.
        - She gets free charging at work so electricity costs will be a lot lower for the M3 than the worse case scenario I have above

~~~
mr_luc
Ah, that's an interesting breakdown.

For me, those numbers boiled down to "a Tesla M3 is $10k cheaper than an A4
because it gets $10k of government rebates"

    
    
        - 7500		: Federal tax credit
        - 2500		: California rebate
    

Of course, the argument is that fossil fuel vehicles are the beneficiaries of
unaccounted-for negative externalities, and that these rebates rectify that
somewhat. But it's interesting that the A4 would otherwise be comparable. It
seems that as long as the subsidies exist and it's mostly Tesla benefiting,
it's in Tesla's interest to keep the price up at a level where this is the
case -- where they're only cheaper due to subsidies.

~~~
mdeeks
The devil is in the details though. Things that can significantly swing
prices:

1\. Saving $5k by not getting Auto Pilot (The A4 doesn't have it so maybe it
wasn't fair for me to include that in the price to begin with)

2\. The true MPG the A4 gets on your normal commute (She's in a lot of stop
and go traffic. I had to guess on the optimistic side. My gut feel is the A4
would get more like 25mpg, but I'm being optimistic with the Model 3 range of
310 too)

3\. The actual costs of maintenance and repairs. It's estimated to be a lot
less than the A4 but only time will tell.

4\. You live in an area with reasonable power prices off-peak. That can bump
the electricity costs in some areas by 50% or more.

5\. I've seen people get a home plug installed for 1/3 of what I was charged.

------
mmanfrin
I finally got my Model 3 a couple months ago -- I am not a car guy, I've
always had the base model of sensible sedans, always bought used. This was my
first fancy, new car.

Good _fucking_ lord it is fun to drive. I took my parents for a spin and told
them I'd briefly (if it was safe, mom) accelerate when I felt I had a good
straightaway. I took them up an (uphill) onramp and gunned it -- my mom yelped
at how immediate the force was. I'm 3 months in to owning it and I'm still
thrilled to drive it.

------
nightski
The cheapest Tesla will be $46k once the tax credit expires at the end of the
year. While that is a lot cheaper than before, it's still out of reach of the
vast majority of Americans. I'm rooting for Tesla but that is a huge gap to
close.

~~~
dkhenry
The top selling automobile in America (Ford F150), has a base price of 43k.
The Second best selling automobile ( Chevy Silverado ) is at 42k. In total the
Average sale price of an automobile in America is 34k

Tesla is still above that, but not by much. I think people discount how much
all those trucks and SUV's they see rolling around cost.

~~~
CydeWeys
The F-150 has a base price of $28k. The Chevy Silverado also has a base price
of $28k. Those are MSRPs, so you can get them cheaper with bargaining, though
of course the average person ends up paying more because they're adding on
options.

I have no idea where you're getting those $43k figures from??

~~~
dkhenry
The average person ends up paying a lot more. Here is where I got my data from

Ford F150 - [https://www.truecar.com/prices-
new/ford/f-150-pricing/](https://www.truecar.com/prices-
new/ford/f-150-pricing/)

Chevy Silverado - [https://www.truecar.com/prices-
new/chevrolet/silverado-1500-...](https://www.truecar.com/prices-
new/chevrolet/silverado-1500-pricing/)

Thats the actual average paid.

~~~
CydeWeys
You said "base price", not "average price".

------
purplezooey
Well let's face it, we buy things based on emotions. The wife and/or kids like
something. You can see yourself driving it. As long as that is true, there
will be car dealerships exactly as they are today.

------
RickJWagner
I like the idea of a Tesla, but I can't justify the cost.

I hope they sell a ton of them and the cars go through the usual depreciation
cycle. Maybe then.

~~~
clouddrover
If the idea is an EV with good range at a better price, then there's the
Hyundai Kona:

[https://insideevs.com/hyundai-kona-electric-gets-
shockingly-...](https://insideevs.com/hyundai-kona-electric-gets-shockingly-
low-price-tag-in-us/)

The Kona's quite efficient. It recently finished second in an EV efficiency
race:

[https://electrek.co/2018/12/23/tesla-roadster-24-hour-
electr...](https://electrek.co/2018/12/23/tesla-roadster-24-hour-electric-
race/)

~~~
gnicholas
I recently saw a Kona in Palo Alto and immediately called my wife to have her
google it. I didn't even know it was an EV — I just didn't recognize it and
thought it was a great-looking vehicle.

~~~
CamelCaseName
Only the Kona 19 is an EV, earlier models are ICE.

