
Reserving your Model 3 - uptown
https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/reserving-model-3/
======
shizcakes
Reading the fine print of the reservations, I am a little surprised to see how
non-binding the $1000 reservations are. A few tidbits: It can be canceled by
you (this is a good thing) or Tesla (not great...), it might be an input to
your "order on the list", but the final order is only decided by Tesla, etc.
If it can be canceled by anyone at any time for any reason, and doesn't
necessarily bind your "place in line", what is the point of the $1000
reservation?

~~~
paulsutter
I made a $5000 reservation for the Model S long before it was available, and
they told me a number that was my place in line, and that they'd contact me
when it's my turn. I chose the color and everything.

It's funny because they still haven't contacted me, nor did they contact
anyone else I know who placed the reservation. Worked out fine for me, I've
been mostly in Japan, and now that I'll be back in Seattle I'm planning to
contact them and really curious what they say.

Everyone else got their car eventually but had to call and check multiple
times. To each person they apologized and said it must be an oversight.

The whole thing leaves a really bad impression of the company. I wonder how
they account for the money on their books over the past four years.

~~~
jacquesm
The Model S has been out for a long time now, it looks as if that's a pretty
bad way to deal with downpayments.

Here in nl the law is pretty strict about downpayments, if you accept a
downpayment you _have_ to keep the item in reserve for that particular
customer. That's easy enough to check with a vehicle (they have a VIN after
all).

At a minimum you should get some compensation for financing them to the tune
of $5K over a longer period of time.

~~~
greglindahl
Tens of thousands of people have successfully used Tesla's reservation system.

I'd bet that if Tesla took reservations in NL at all that they complied with
the local law. For example, in the US it doesn't turn into a firm order until
you go through the final feature pick right before production. Before that
either side can cancel for any reason. That might make it not a downpayment in
NL.

------
rdl
Seems safe to predict that unless you're waiting in line on the West Coast on
3/31, you won't be getting the full $7500 tax credit. They've sold about 50k
Teslas so far (Roadster/S/X); the credit goes to 50% for 2 quarters after they
hit 200k total vehicles from one manufacturer sold.

I'd be expecting another 50-100k S/X delivered between now and 2017-12-31 when
I predict Model 3 will start shipping. Probably every Model 3 shipped in 2018
will be to either an existing Tesla owner, or someone who does an in-person
deposit on 3/31\. I would be amazed if they don't do 200k units on 4/1 alone.

~~~
gohrt
What's this? Do consumers have to check their purchase ordinal to know whether
they get the credit? That's a horribly unfair and overcomplicated tax
structure.

~~~
rdl
The deposit doesn't even count as purchase, so you don't particularly know.
Plus the deposits aren't 100% deliveries -- people ahead of you might drop
out.

Seems worth sitting outside with an iPad for a few hours in a week to maximize
my chances of $7500 vs. $3750 in 2 years, though.

------
dangrossman
> When production begins, we will begin deliveries in North America starting
> on the West Coast, moving east.

If California is getting them in late 2017, it'll be years before I might be
able to buy one in Pennsylvania. Bummer.

Looks like it'll be a Chevrolet Bolt replacing my Leaf later this year. Same
price tag, same 200+ mile range, can't be too upset.

~~~
atonse
We're considering pulling the trigger on a Leaf, but have theoretical
anxiety... How's it been for you?

I loved the test drive and love the idea of going electric for 95% of my use
(and possibly just renting a car for longer road trips).

~~~
dangrossman
I love the car. It's fun to drive -- smooth, quiet, and zippy acceleration
from a stop. I haven't paid for gas or any kind of maintenance in over a year.

But I would definitely not buy a Leaf unless you're a 2-car home and have
something else for a backup and long trips.

If you have any fun with your car, as opposed to driving in eco-mode all the
time, never accelerating hard, coasting down hills... you won't get the rated
range. If it's cold out, you won't get the rated range. If you like to blast
the heat and A/C, you won't get the rated range. Which means you will limit
yourself to a 20-30 mile radius to feel safe, which is much less than the
80-100+ miles the sticker says you'll get.

The battery also degrades pretty fast. You can't tell what you're buying used
unless you buy a copy of Leaf Spy Pro for your phone and hook up a bluetooth
OBDII scanner to the car to actually find out how much of its battery life is
usable. My 2012 model has 16kWh of the original 24kWh available for driving,
though the dashboard shows 11/12 battery life "pips" remaining. That means I
get a max of 70-some miles driving conservatively in good weather. It'll only
go down the longer I own it, which is why I'm looking forward to that Chevy
Bolt, hopefully before winter when my usable range drops even more.

~~~
atonse
Glad you love it. I work from home and commute sometimes to downtown DC (about
25 mi each way). So I am thinking the 107 mi would be more than enough even
being conservative and expecting a 60mi range.

But from what you're saying, it sounds even worse!

We really aren't expecting to do any road trips with the car, instead opting
to rent a car for that occasional weekend trip. Seems like a good balance. Why
choose a car for the 3 road trips you take every year?

------
eljimmy
I've wanted a Tesla for a while, but being someone who repairs and maintains
their own car, I can't see myself ever buying one as they seem heavily opposed
to allowing anyone but themselves to work on their cars.

~~~
jonknee
You should probably not get a new car at all, they are all going that way.
With electric/hybrid cars it's probably a good idea, there's a _lot_ of
current in those batteries.

~~~
vvanders
Yup, last I checked the P90DL was around 500kW(!) at peak, that's 1,250A @
400V.

Someone accidentally steps on the brake pedal while your near a HV line(400V
can jump a bit) to one of the two motors? Yikes.

~~~
makomk
The Tesla has contactors in the battery that isolate the HV and a facility to
lock them out - and they'd better be reliable even if someone accidentally
steps on the brake pedal and the car's in pieces, because rescue workers have
to rely on them in order to avoid electrocution when extracting people from
crashed and mangled Teslas.

Besides, a lot of the failures are in low-voltage systems like door handles
that are covered by a much shorter warranty than the drivetrain and HV.

~~~
mikeash
There are two wiring loops you can cut which will cut power to those
contactors and isolate the battery. If the car is sufficiently mangled, the
first responders' first order of business will be to cut those loops, which
will render the car safe no matter what controls people activate.

But if you haven't cut those loops and you're taking the car apart and haven't
isolated things yourself, there's nothing preventing the car from closing
those contactors and energizing the high-voltage system while you're elbow-
deep in it.

------
scblock
The "agreement" is a joke. If you give them your money next week, you may or
may not get a place in line that may or may not exist, to eventually maybe or
maybe not buy a car. The date and time which you may or may not make a
decision to possibly but probably not buy a car may or may not be known, and
the price may or may not be what you think it is.

~~~
NotSammyHagar
I think most agreements look as bad as this one. I bought an original,
upgraded for auto drive and will probably get in line for this to replace my
wife's car. Since they struggle to make enough to meet demand, they seem to
make many of the same car with the same options at a time, delaying various
combinations of features. They already announced that people who previously
bought one would have a priority in the queue this time. I'm pretty certain
I'll put my 1k in.

------
mattiemass
I am so nervous/excited for this reveal! I can only imagine the butterflies
and sleepless nights for the actual team involved. Good luck everyone!

------
rdl
I'll go to a Bay Area store to put in my reservation on 3/31\. Not really
feeling up to camping out overnight, but showing up at 0600 or so seems
reasonable (since they open up at 1000).

Now...which store? Burlingame is probably the most convenient for me, but
driving down to the Fremont factory seems maybe more appropriate. Not sure
which locations would be most amenable to "arrive hours early" \-- probably
not Stanford Shopping Center. There's a 24h Safeway a couple blocks from the
El Camino Palo Alto location.

It would be entertaining to have some kind of HN meetup in line at a Tesla
store.

~~~
beamatronic
There is also a nice one at Santana Row.

~~~
praneshp
And near wolfe and el camino intersection in Sunnyvale

------
RIMR
On one hand, I really want a Tesla car. On the other hand, I live in a city
and take electric busses and trains everywhere.

Maybe I'll trade in my 15 year old SUV for a Tesla Model 3 when they hit used
car lots.

~~~
imglorp
Consider this guy's opinion. The used Tesla market might not look like it does
for other cars.

[http://syonyk.blogspot.com/2016/03/is-tesla-building-
throwaw...](http://syonyk.blogspot.com/2016/03/is-tesla-building-throwaway-
cars.html)

~~~
cowardlydragon
Once there are enough Teslas, there will be aftermarket repair howtos. This is
inevitable.

I guess you could argue that Tesla will try to do the Apple thing and not
support older versions of devices, but 50000$ cars and 500$ phones are
different beasts.

Generally speaking, highly integrated ICE cars are quickly approaching the
complexity of Teslas anyway.

On the other hand, a tesla is basically 1-2 motors and a big battery bank. No
engines, crankshafts, pistons, sparkplugs, radiators, alternators, exhaust
pipes and sensors, catalytic convertors, oil pans... I still have some faith
that the fundamental simplification of electric drivetrains will result in
longer lived vehicles.

~~~
imglorp
I'm not sure I agree here.

A car is network of serious computing, including proprietary API's, busses,
and signed firmware. You might change the tires yourself but you won't be
putting a third-party sensor in there. The talk of bricking your car is no
joke.

See also John Deere giving its farmer customers a hard time about self
servicing big tractors.

The only question is, does the customer have the right to tinker?

~~~
zanny
It isn't even a right to tinker. Do you _actually_ own the car - which means
you should have the right to do whatever you want to it - or are you borrowing
it from the manufacturer?

If Tesla keeps their cars as draconian DRMed as they have been, then you never
actually own the Tesla in the exact same thought process that you don't own an
iphone.

------
Fastidious
Is there, somewhere on that page, information about the price of the car we
can make the reservation? Are they taking reservations without stating the car
price at all?

~~~
bandwevil
It was stated a while ago that the pricing would be $35,000 before incentives.
They probably don't want to say a specific price if incentives aren't nailed
down yet.

------
bmj
Wouldn't it make more sense for non-Tesla owners to get priority in the queue?
Seems like a better way to get more people driving EVs.

~~~
mikeash
That would be a pretty dick move. "You gave us a ton of money buying a
ridiculously expensive car, and as your reward you have to wait longer than
people who we've never even seen before."

I could see just not giving priority. As it is, they're rewarding customer
loyalty, which is a pretty common thing to do.

~~~
arprocter
But the model 3 is supposedly the 'affordable' one, so prioritizing rich folks
who already own one of the pricey models seems a little backwards.

~~~
mikeash
Well, either rich people want "the affordable one" or they don't. If they do,
why not reward their loyalty? If they don't, then it doesn't affect anything.

In any case, I don't think it'll be a major factor. All current owners already
have a car, after all. How many need another one? Out of ~120,000 current
owners, how many head-of-line orders will that translate into? I'd think it
would just be a couple thousand, which won't make a particularly big
difference in the timeline for others.

------
selectout
Is there any chance that putting the $1,000 USD down for reservation will
qualify as purchasing the EV and getting the EV Tax Credits before they are
all used up? Or is the Model 3 most likely going to be out of contention for
those credits as the Model S is well over 100,000 units sold already.

~~~
chc
Only sales in the US count, and the Model S is not over 100k here. Most
estimates I've seen agree that the tax incentive probably won't go into phase-
out mode until the latter half of 2018.

~~~
selectout
Awesome, thanks for the clarification on US only, I was not aware of that
part.

------
sremani
Will Tesla put out the specs and pricing details before the Reservation date?
It would be fair, because unlike their other two products, Model 3 has a
competing product, and it would be only fair for TSLA to give more details so
the consumer can compare it with Bolt EV and choose what fits them.

~~~
rdl
It's a refundable $1k deposit. Seems like there's very little risk.

------
kylec
Any idea what forms of payment they'll accept for a deposit? Will a debit or
credit card work?

~~~
pilingual
Yes.

Edit: they also accept PayPal, of course. ;)

------
breitling
Any idea on the cost yet? Is this still expected to be around the $35k range?

~~~
mikeash
Yes, they've said that it'll start at $35,000. Exactly what you get for that
is still unknown, besides some sort of car with a 200 mile range. It's a
pretty safe bet that things like autopilot will be an option on top of that.

------
angryasian
So does anyone know , even though the event is at - March 31st at 8:30pm PT...
Are they accepting reservations that morning the day of ? Or will they accept
reservations after the announcement ?

------
saurik
Is it the height of a normal car yet? :/ I am kind of tall (6'3.5"), and it is
comical just how poorly I fit in a Tesla. I can sit more safely (which is the
correct word, not "comfortably": my head bangs up against part of the ceiling
in a way where even a very minor collision would cause me serious head trauma)
in a Miata. I would love to get a Tesla, particularly this new cheaper one (as
I can't really justify >$100k; I waste a ton of money on my current car
scheme, but it is still cheaper than a Tesla), but it feels like trying to buy
a trendy shirt and realizing they don't bother making it in my size as my size
simply isn't as trendy as their shirt :/.

~~~
ido
That's odd, I am nearly as tall as you and had no problem fitting in a Tesla
(the fact it didn't cross my mind probably means there was plenty of buffer
space left).

~~~
saurik
I don't know what to tell you: this is an incredibly common complaint on Tesla
forums, though "your mileage may vary" as people are proportioned in all sorts
of different ways. Here is a thread that is particularly verbose and well-
researched (showing comparisons to another car based on technical measurement
specifications).

[https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/will-the-
model-3-be-...](https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/will-the-model-3-be-
better-built-for-taller-people.63066/)

Though that person claims to have managed to have found a "comfortable"
position with the seat moved entirely back: that doesn't fix the safety
issues. I can also feel comfortable, but if I rock my head even slightly to
the left it slams into the frame of the car, as the only reason my head fits
is because some of the models have a divot in the top of the car.

I have a friend with a Tesla S (who is a major major fan of the company) who
adamantly didn't believe me until we finally had an opportunity to go out to
his car and have me sit in the driver's seat: he shut up pretty quick ;P. (He
had wanted me to drive us to our destination, so as to fall in love with the
car, but instead I ended up in the passenger seat with the seat extremely
reclined, feeling only slightly claustrophobic.)

~~~
jlv2
This is almost funny. The reason I have a LEAF (see my post above) and not a
Model S is because it doesn't fit _small_ people. Everything about that car
seems to be built for the 6' tall person with no thought about those of us not
that tall.

I'm 5'6\. My wife is 5'1\. When I test drove the Model S I found there was
nearly 3' of foot room behind the driver seat. That doesn't really bother me,
but it told me the car was made for taller people.

When my wife test drove the Model S, after adjusting the seat so she could
reach the peddles, the drivers should belt went right across her neck. After
15 minutes of driving she had a noticeable red mark there. She was unhappy to
say the least. We went to adjust the seat belt anchor to make the belt not
cross her neck.

We were surprised that an $80,000 car doesn't have adjustable seat belt
anchors. ($80K as we would have configured it)

The "salesperson" (are they called that?) in the Tesla store suggested we get
some kind of cover for the shoulder belt to avoid it irritating my wife's
neck. My wife was "you mean I need to jury-rig something to make this $80K car
comfortable to drive?"

We've never bought expensive cars; a Honda minivan was the most we'd ever paid
for a car. That was comfortable and cost 1/3 the Model S. My wanting to buy
one was already stretching reasonable limits. The seat belt issue made the
Model S a non-option as far as my wife was concerned.

------
enahs-sf
It would be cool if you could make your reservation by buying TSLA shares.

------
mathattack
The beauty of this (for them!) is that this seems to take away all the
negotiation about pricing, terms and taking used cars in.

But aren't they leaving money on the table with such a long wait list?
(Granted - creating artificial shortages can work if you have a monopoly)

~~~
jonknee
> The beauty of this (for them!) is that this seems to take away all the
> negotiation about pricing, terms and taking used cars in.

This is because they don't have a dealer network. If you don't like their
price you can't go down the block and make an offer to the next dealer.
Probably necessary because dealers normally make their money on maintenance
and there just isn't much to do for Tesla vehicles.

~~~
keehun
> there just isn't much to do for Tesla vehicles

I'm all for Tesla, but I don't think this is true.[0]

[0]: [http://www.consumerreports.org/cars/tesla-reliability-
doesnt...](http://www.consumerreports.org/cars/tesla-reliability-doesnt-match-
its-high-performance/) [1]:
[http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100598_tesla-
reliabilit...](http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100598_tesla-reliability-
take-two-are-newer-owners-less-tolerant) [2]:
[http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-tesla-model-
s-p85d-...](http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-tesla-model-
s-p85d-10000-mile-update-review) etc

~~~
jonknee
Some warranty work to replace defects for new cars isn't the same as a
reliable maintenance schedule for ICE vehicles.

------
xutopia
So few details on the car itself though...

~~~
mikeash
Details will be discussed as part of the unveiling on the 31st.

------
MrMan
I will go with the Chevy Bolt.

------
Bouncingsoul1
It's a shame they didn't call it model E. But S3X is close enough. And now i
take my head out of the gully

~~~
will_hughes
Ford has the trademark on 'Model E' \- they contacted Telsa when the name was
floated and warned them off it.

Elon Musk has joked several times that 'Ford killed off SEX'

