

Mac OS X Lion: Coming In July For $29 - sandipc
http://techcrunch.com/2011/06/06/mac-os-x-lion-coming-in-july-for-29-and-you-wont-be-able-to-buy-it-on-a-disc/

======
callahad
Hallelujah! "OS X Lion [Terminal] includes editable ANSI colors in preferences
and support for 256 colors and BCE (background color erase). The default TERM
value is xterm-256color."

Cite: <http://www.apple.com/macosx/whats-new/features.html#unix>

~~~
dreamux
Full-screen terminal is [sadly] the only feature I really want in this update.

~~~
fredoliveira
No love for command+tab number? That alone made me move to iTerm 2.

~~~
lloeki
The one feature that made me move to iTerm 2 is separate settings for
left/right alt keys (resp. meta/system alt). Essential on a French keyboard,
where '|' is alt+shift+L and '~' is alt+N, while keeping meta alive.

------
mortenjorck
This App Store-only distribution has me concerned about small business
upgrades.

Let's say I have an office with 10 workstations. How do I upgrade? Do I have
to create an iTunes account for each computer, and enter a company credit card
number on each one? Can multiple iTunes accounts even share the same credit
card number?

Perhaps I could get by with two accounts, since iTunes allows sharing on up to
five Macs. But that's still far from an elegant solution, and it doesn't scale
any better. And what about users who already have their workstations activated
with their home iTunes accounts?

~~~
nettdata
Historically you could use OSX Server as a local update/patch server, and have
other Mac's on the LAN use it instead of downloading the same stuff again.

They say they're making Lion Server free and easily configured, and I'm hoping
that they're integrating the App store components as well.

~~~
webfuel
Unless I missed something in the presentation, Lion Server isn't free. It's a
separate app that costs $50

<https://www.apple.com/macosx/server/>

~~~
nettdata
Ahhh... I was just going by what was reported by someone at the keynote.
Still, it's priced way cheaper than the previous versions, and I'd gladly pay
the $50 for the convenience of a local patch/app server. (I have 5 macs in the
house).

My biggest peeve is the download-only for the OS, as I have rather crappy
internet access, and dread the thought of downloading a multi-GB update.

~~~
r00fus
Perhaps the fact that they've recently discovered delta updates would make the
download process a lot easier.

~~~
nickbarnwell
From my understanding of it the delta updates are only for the y part of x.y
versioning, not whole point upgrades, and only for iOS. OS X already uses
delta updaters and has done so for years.

------
mark_l_watson
The download only distribution will be a nuisance for 64G SSD MacBook Airs
like my wife's laptop. She often only has 5 or 10 GB of free disk space.

~~~
rauljara
The download is 4 gb.

~~~
troutwine
Surely it will have to unpack itself a bit.

~~~
sipefree
They said that the update is done in-place and apparently without a reboot.

~~~
code_duck
The unix style of file locking sure is showing it's advantage over Windows.
Not that rebooting for an OS upgrade is too onerous, but using Windows one has
to reboot for the most trivial things - Adobe Acrobat, Skype updates and the
like.

~~~
iaskwhy
This has been said many times before but on OSX you actually need to reboot
after updating Safari. I'm not 100% sure about iTunes but I believe it still
needs a reboot after updating.

~~~
calloc
Hopefully that will get fixed. Generally the reason why the reboot is required
is because WebKit gets updated and that is a library that is loaded into
various different applications the best way to restart all of them is to
reboot, with the new state keeping that Lion is doing that will become
simpler.

------
follower
4GB isn't insignificant in countries with bandwidth caps.

~~~
decadentcactus
Speaking from Australia, I'll assume that at least iinet will have it on their
cap-less servers to download. For example most major Steam games are and don't
count against the cap.

~~~
ejdyksen
Interesting...in the case of Steam, does the ISP run that server, or do they
just whitelist the Steam server IP?

~~~
seabee
I know some UK ISPs have their own Steam servers.

Some also cache YouTube videos for this purpose, for example.

------
tvon
dsplittgerber seems to have a valid point, though one that is understood by
anyone who has followed Apple for long. Still, unsure why the comment is
[dead].

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2625727>

To respond, Apple has never had a problem re-implementing a 3rd party app and
integrating it into the system, Dashboard is a classic example of this. It's a
bit hostile towards 3rd party developers, but generally good for users (at
least that's the argument).

------
thomasgerbe
Great news.

Now if only they just did away with the optical drives on MBP's. I have used
mine about... twice in three years since owning my current laptop.

~~~
matthew-wegner
You can put another HD (or SSD) in your optical bay:

<http://www.mcetech.com/optibay/>

Cheap eBay brackets are ~$20 and accomplish the same thing.

There are a couple of caveats--here's everything you need to know:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2493938>

~~~
thomasgerbe
How is the battery life?

~~~
matthew-wegner
Seems unchanged for me (I added an SSD, so the existing 7200 RPM HD became a
rarely-used media drive).

I see ~5.5 hours real-world use on a 15" MBP, and my development environment
includes a virtualized XP install.

------
rythie
Title is misleading, $29.99 to zero decimal places is $30 not $29.

~~~
tudorizer
That's how our whole consumer culture is tricked :)

------
vault_
There's a complete list of new features here:
<http://www.apple.com/macosx/whats-new/features.html>

To address the concerns of re-installation, they're including a partition with
the system install disk on it (which can get to Time Machine or whatever else
you need).

------
config_yml
It's only available through the Mac App Store. So how can people upgrade from
10.5 without going the extra step to 10.6, which is required for the app
store?

~~~
lysol
Can't you typically only upgrade to the next revision up? e.g. 10.5 to 10.6

~~~
wmf
No, some people used to skip versions to save money. But now that each update
is only $30 they can afford to stay current.

------
koenigdavidmj
I wonder how much of a wrench in the works that will be for Hackintosh people.

~~~
minalecs
If you install a valid registered copy of the OS on the hardware, I imagine
none. For the people that obtain the OS through not so legal means, then I
imagine they'll still be able to get around it as most application on the
appstore are obtainable through other means.

~~~
sandipc
technically none of the copies of Mac OS X running on Hackintoshes are "valid"
-- Apple's Leopard/Snow Leopard boxes are technically upgrades only, not full
installs, even though they work perfectly fine as full installs.

------
furyg3
Hmm... so what happens if my hard drive crashes and I replace it myself?

~~~
cefstat
From [https://www.apple.com/macosx/whats-
new/features.html#interne...](https://www.apple.com/macosx/whats-
new/features.html#internetrestore)

Internet Restore and Utilities

* Built into Lion: OS X Lion includes a built-in restore partition, allowing you to repair or reinstall OS X without the need for discs.

* Browse the web with Safari: Recovery mode now includes the Safari web browser, so you can check your email or browse the Apple Support site.

* Reinstall OS X: OS X can be reinstalled on your Mac from recovery mode.

* Restore from a Time Machine backup: Use recovery mode to restore your Mac from a Time Machine backup.

~~~
AlexandrB
That doesn't answer the question at all. A dead hard drive will have an
inoperable restore partition.

This seems like it will be a total PITA. PC restore partitions I've worked
with always had weird quirks (strange partition types, special MBR boot loader
code) that make them hard to copy/move to a new drive successfully.

------
Newky
I don't mean to be off topic, but I really feel, although this is an
improvement on the price of Windows upgrade, I think that there is nothing in
this release that would drive me off any Linux, particularly a rolling release
distribution.

I know that for certain fields, such as multimedia, apple offers a lot, but
with new offerings such as Gnome 3, a mature KDE 4, and Ubuntu's unity, for
the standard desktop user or developer for that matter, I argue that Linux
should enthrall and for one of the first times the difference in price tag
isn't the only plus. Stability, Safety and polish are quickly becoming
relevant keywords for Linux desktops.

Although the new Unity and Gnome Shell may lack the stability, you can always
fall back on the watertight Gnome default desktop.

~~~
astrange
Would you say this is the year of Linux on the desktop?

~~~
Newky
No, please just ask and I will remove this comment, I am not here to try and
cause agitation, I was just pointing out the changing landscape and how a
release such as Lion, no longer has the impact that such a release would have
had perhaps 4-5 years ago.

I am not here to declare that Linux on the desktop is beyond these offerings,
I am far more realistic and believe more in the fact that its prevalence in
other markets (embedded among others) is where the true potential is.

------
wildmXranat
Will they offer a usb stick option for $29 ?

------
Groxx
> _Resize from any edge

You can now resize a window from any side or corner._

Interesting that they _did_ finally do this. And without adding huge-ass
borders to everything...

~~~
anonymoushn
If they added borders to everything, how many pixels do the borders take up?
I'll probably avoid the upgrade if there are borders I can't get rid of...

~~~
Groxx
Other way around. It was a combination of "oh, that's nice, people have been
requesting that for _years_ " combined with a bit of snark at Window's ever-
increasing border size - which people often defend by saying that you need the
borders to resize / know where the edge of the application is. I cry foul, and
now I have more ammo :)

------
frou_dh
If Lion supports TRIM for all SSDs, I want to zap my Intel drive and do a
fresh install so that there are no mystery regions on the drive.

I hope a normal DVD will be available on the quiet.

~~~
matthew-wegner
There is a TRIM Enabler for Snow Leopard: <http://www.groths.org/?p=308>

~~~
frou_dh
Thanks, but unofficial kext patching would knock me out of my I-can-trust-the-
machine groove.

------
dongsheng
Oh come on apple now we have to do everything through your stores?

~~~
noarchy
This is not a total change in direction for Apple, just a fleshing out of what
they've been wanting to do for a while. Expect more of this in the future, not
less.

~~~
ojilles
And seeing how I now first need to order physical disks to upgrade to Snow
Leopard in order to get this latest release, I kinda reflect back and wish
they had done this sooner :-)

------
ary
After all the talk about delta updates in the keynote I had hoped that Time
Machine would be doing file deltas now. A read through the Lion features page
doesn't turn anything up. Anyone know?

~~~
thurn
Time Machine has always done deltas (unless I have no idea what you're talking
about?)

~~~
dchest
No, it has hard links to already backed up files, but individual files are not
stored as deltas. If you have a big file that changes often, say 4 GB virtual
machine image, Time Machine will just copy it every time.

------
toomanymike
Curious for one of my favorite apps, can anyone comment on BetterTouchTool
(<http://www.boastr.de/>) quality on the new build?

~~~
ivarv
The first part of today's keynote had a strong emphasis on multitouch and
gestures being integrated into the OS. As a BTT user myself I'm very curious
to see if BTT has been obsoleted by Apple.

------
iramiller
Has anyone seen references to how the server tools will be distributed? The
rumor mill had indicated that there would be a mac app store version but I
have not seen a confirmation on if these pieces are in the regular 10.7
upgrade or not.

The server edition of 10.6 was $500 and distinct from the $29 regular edition
so I am expecting a separate paid download to be required...

~~~
callahad
It's an additional $50, as per <http://www.apple.com/macosx/server/>

The upgrade path for existing Server users is Snow Leopard Server to Lion,
then Lion to Lion Server.

------
ojilles
"Auto setup for Gmail and Yahoo! in Mail[.app]

When you first log in to your Google, Yahoo!, or AOL accounts in Safari,
you’ll have the option to use them with Mail, iCal, Address Book, iChat, and
other applications on your Mac."

Thats pretty smart to keep Mail.app relevant in the web age! (I hope it
handles "guest" logins on the web gracefully though!)

------
MatthewPhillips
Really wish this was coming out sooner. I plan on getting the Samsung
Chromebook on the 16th, which will be my primary "fun" computer. I'll keep my
Macbook for development, but I'm not sure I'll use it in the way that these
consumer features are meant for. If it was coming on now I'd go ahead and get
it just to play around with. Now I don't know.

~~~
saturdaysaint
"Your Mac must have an Intel Core 2 Duo, Core i3, Core i5, Core i7, or Xeon
processor to run Lion. Find out if your current Mac has one of these
processors by clicking the Apple icon at the top left of your screen, then
choosing About This Mac."

------
jevinskie
It will be interesting to see how the OS installs over itself now that it is
being distributed through the app store. I wonder if they will create a new
partition with the installer and reboot into it.

~~~
drewcrawford
According to [1], Phil Schiller said "no reboots". Any idea how that is
accomplished, or was it a misstatement?

[1] [http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/06/wwdc-2011-liveblog-
steve-...](http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/06/wwdc-2011-liveblog-steve-jobs-
talks-ios-5-os-x-lion-icloud-an/?sort=newest&refresh=60), Ctrl+F for "reboots"

~~~
wmf
They probably mean no _additional_ reboots; in many OSes first you boot the
installer/upgrader, then you install, then you boot the installed OS.

~~~
rimantas
He said that no reboot from optical disk will be needed to _start_ the
installation.

------
eapen
While they are at it, I am surprised Apple didn’t integrate
LaunchBar/QuickSilver/Alfred functionality into Lion (and take those guys
out). It would go really well with the full screen apps.

------
enterneo
any news on whether it is for 64-bit processors ONLY? my core-solo mac mini
wants to know :-S

~~~
orangecat
Lion is 64-bit only. Although the early minis have socketed CPUs, so you could
theoretically replace it with a Core 2:
[http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/mac_mini_core_2_duo_swaps...](http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/mac_mini_core_2_duo_swaps.html)

~~~
enterneo
oh! good to know!

------
blinkingled
Finally high res larger cursor that is crisp.

The other updates/features are looking solid too. Well worth the $29.99.

------
recoiledsnake
Not sure why below comment is dead. The account seems ok and not hell banned.
Was it flagged to death? If so, anyone who flagged it,why?

dsplittgerber 24 minutes ago | link [dead]

Anyone else surprised by how many hugely popular apps Apple is going to kill
with new Lion/iOS? Instapaper built-into Safari now, all kinds of messanger
apps killed by iMessage, some of those photo apps going down the drain as
well, Reminders app is a huge one as well. All targeting really popular app
categories.

Sure, some people care about thing X being done supremely well and will still
pay for some apps. But the huge majority will probably be really fine with
Apples version.

~~~
ansy
This is par for the course with Apple. I remember back in the day there was
this super popular shareware app called Aaron that gave System 7 users a
System 8 looking theme. Keep in mind this was the dark ages of Apple.

Aaron evolved into Kaleidoscope. A general purpose shareware theme manager
that was met with enthusiasm by the Mac community. Kaleidoscope was synonymous
with themes on Mac OS.

<http://www.kaleidoscope.net/What_is_Kaleidoscope.html>

By the time OS 8.5 rolled around Apple introduced Appearance Manager. Which
was no more than a total rip off of Kaleidoscope. Apple engineers even wrote
an internal utility that would convert Kaleidoscope themes into Appearance
Manager themes.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appearance_Manager#Kaleidoscope>

The shareware author got zero credit. Zero money. He just got ripped off by
Apple. In the end, though, Appearance Manager never took off. It was a
combination of Kaleidoscope's momentum and the taint of Appearance Manager
that kept theme authors from adopting it.

EDIT: I also add the story of Konfabulator, written later by some of the same
people that did Kaleidoscope. Konfabulator was also ripped off by Apple in the
form of Dashboard.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dashboard_(software)#Comparison...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dashboard_\(software\)#Comparison_with_Konfabulator)

~~~
adamta
I remember Konfabulator and Watson (is that what it was called? The one that
was ripped off as a new version of Sherlock back when that was still a thing),
but I think you're mistaken about why Appearance Manager never took off. If I
remember correctly, Apple just never provided external developers with theme
authoring software or documentation for the theme format, because between the
original DP period and the public release, they(/Steve) decided that they
didn't particularly _want_ to promote wildly different UI styles. They never
even officially released the themes they had demoed, other than Platinum.

~~~
duskwuff
Indeed, for years there was an unexplained drop-down menu in the Appearance
control panel labeled "Theme", with exactly one option available ("Platinum").
Third-party developers _eventually_ figured out how to build their own themes
(with some help when Apple's alternate themes - Hi-Tech, Gizmo, and Drawing
Board - got leaked), but it was never officially supported.

Apple's alternate themes, as well as all the third-party ones, were visually
distracting enough to be nearly unusable anyway. I really can't blame them for
dropping the feature.

------
recoiledsnake
>This isn’t actually the first time Apple has offered an OS upgrade at a steep
discount compared to its Windows rival (which typically runs over $100) — Snow
Leopard made its debut at $29.

A pretty flawed apples to oranges comparison. OS X is more similar to bios
updates... you buy the hardware, the vendor makes money off it and gives away
the software. With Microsoft, you're paying the OEM money for the
hardware(with razor thin margins usually but that's another story), so
Microsoft doesn't make bank on expensive hardware and upgrades to RAM/HDD/CPU
that Apple makes.

Edit: Not to mention that 10.5 to 10.7 is not upgradeable, you have to buy and
install 10.6 first, install the App Store and then install 10.7. Windows 7 may
not be upgradeable directly from XP without a format, but atleast you don't
have to but and upgrade to Vista first!

~~~
mikeleeorg
I have 10.5 and held off on purchasing 10.6 because I was waiting for 10.7. It
bums me out that now I'll need to purchase both 10.6 and 10.7, regardless of
how much the Windows upgrades cost. Judging from some of the tweets & comments
I'm seeing elsewhere, a lot of other consumers are bummed too.

~~~
pistacchio
if you can afford a mac, i guess you can afford saving 0.80 dollars a month
for buying a $30 OS update every 2 years.

~~~
mikeleeorg
Admittedly, I'm cheap. I prized my $400 Dell Vostro for years and reluctantly
switched to a Mac because I was ultimately convinced it was a better machine
for software development. I ended up buying a used MBPro for ~$800.

------
jrockway
I love the Apple hype cycle: an incremental OS update for $29, and it's one of
the most-commented HN articles of the day.

I get an incremental OS update every day for free. It's called apt-get. After
you've done it every day for nearly 15 years, it gets a little old...

What's next, a central Mac software repository? (Oh yeah, "the Mac app store".
Innovation!)

