
Amazon Seeks to Ease Ties with UPS - uptown
http://www.wsj.com/article_email/amazon-seeks-to-ease-ties-with-ups-1450835575-lMyQjAxMTA1MDI3MzcyOTMzWj
======
mcarrano
I am starting to question whether my Prime subscription is worth it or not. I
only have it for the 2 day shipping as I don't watch Prime Videos, listen to
Prime Music, etc.

Recently, I attempted to purchase a TV from Amazon. They used a third party
courier, XPO, to do a scheduled delivery.

The day before delivery, I get an email from Amazon saying things are on
track. Delivery day comes and I wait, wait, wait... Lo and behold the
scheduled time comes and goes. I give Amazon a call and they tell me that XPO
has had issues all week and that the earliest they can get the TV to me in
next week.

No thanks, cancelled the order and went to BestBuy to get the same TV. I ended
up spending more time on the phone with Amazon CS than it took to buy the TV
from BestBuy.

I dislike when Amazon uses USPS to deliver my packages. Usually the package
will arrive in the 2 days like expected but it goes to my local USPS office
which will deliver the package the next day.

~~~
santaclaus
> I dislike when Amazon uses USPS to deliver my packages. Usually the package
> will arrive in the 2 days like expected but it goes to my local USPS office
> which will deliver the package the next day.

Before I moved West I lived in Harlem, and the USPS was a total sh*t show. The
delivery guy for our block would routinely forge signatures to get out of
delivering packages to our building, and I'd have to show up at the local post
office to claim my packages. Claiming a package involved convincing the postal
employee behind two inches of bullet proof shielding that a United States
passport is indeed valid identification for federal purposes...

~~~
atomi
It's possible that the quality of service you get from USPS correlates to the
city it's operating from. I prefer USPS in my area. Their delivery schedule is
consistent. In contrast, UPS will sometimes show up in the morning or as late
in the evening as 9 PM and rescheduled deliveries are too commom.

~~~
tjl
UPS has a habit of just leaving a "sorry I missed you" sheet at my building.
Several times, I've been home the entire day the delivery happened, but they
never buzzed my apartment. They just left without contacting me and saying
that I wasn't home as the reason.

------
nkw
Now that Amazon is shipping more and more with USPS with their pitiful
tracking and erratic delivery, I really don't know why I have prime. It
certainly isn't for videos, music, or whatever else they have piled on to it
lately. Now that I'm paying sales tax on Amazon orders, if Amazon can figure
out same day delivery they will stay my go to place to buy everything. If not
they are now the choice that costs more and takes longer.

~~~
jschwartzi
I would for sure pay about $50.00 more a year to only receive packages via
UPS. USPS has made some really inconvenient mistakes, and OnTrac has
repeatedly left packages in strange locations.

Frankly the only saving grace is that I can have packages delivered to an
Amazon locker in most cases. Otherwise Prime has become significantly less
convenient than it was when it was UPS/Fedex only.

~~~
tessierashpool
I'd pay $500 more to only receive packages via UPS. Where I live, USPS and
FedEx are so bad it boggles the mind.

------
mabbo
If you're interested in being part of developing Amazon's own delivery system
(Amazon Flex, [https://flex.amazon.com](https://flex.amazon.com)), the
software team is hiring in Seattle, Toronto and I think Phoenix.

I just transferred internally to it, looks like it's going to be a fun
project. Lots of really great people involved.

My username @Amazon.com.

~~~
justicezyx
Despite being a relatively shitty working place, Amazon indeed have so many
great opportunities for engineers to explore their interests and skills.

------
JoshGlazebrook
I've noticed that Amazon really has been relying on USPS more at least for my
area (West Austin). I have Amazon Prime, and of the last 10 items I've ordered
with 2 day shipping (and even overnight shipping), 9 of the 10 have come via
USPS. I would prefer if they would come via UPS or Fedex as the item comes
right to my door as opposed to me having to find the time to make it to my
apartment's main office during their business hours (they close at 6pm), to
retrieve my package.

~~~
pcarmichael
North Austin here - we routinely get packages from USPS intended for other
houses. Once they mixed up mailbox keys so we got someone else's packages, and
then had to track down whose key they got, then followed the chain to get to
our package. UPS and Fedex here have been much much better in comparison.

~~~
Shank
It's telling that USPS customers regularly experience these kinds of issues.

Packages that come via UPS are at least handed off with some care. In my
neighborhood, USPS is a lottery if your mail ends up in your box or someone
else's.

------
op00to
Amazons own delivery folk - In my area they are mostly Amazon Fresh or
whatever the grocery service is - are excellent for me. It's the strange 3rd
party couriers like A1 and OnTrac that do stupid stuff like mark packages as
delivered at 7:59 PM (there's an 8PM cutoff) with the package actually
appearing the next morning if ever.

~~~
busterarm
Amazon just cares about the lowest bid. They still use LaserShip, for example,
who has a long-standing and well-earned reputation for being the worst
shipping service ever.

I got something sent next-day via Amazon recently and LaserShip made an
extremely half-assed first attempt. I had to spend an hour on the phone with a
LaserShip rep and pass my phone number along to the driver (who is an
independent contractor) to get a second attempt that same day, after they
tried to punt it to the next day with no guarantee that a better delivery
attempt would be made (I live in a no-doorman apartment building).

The interesting thing is that I wouldn't have even have been able to complain
to Amazon until LaserShip noted that they completed delivery -- so I could
have spent days or weeks in limbo.

If there were checkboxes on Amazon where I could choose which carriers they
couldn't use, I would...even if I had to pay the difference in shipping.

~~~
stinky613
That sounds awful. LaserShip was very prompt for me. They promptly lost my
package.

"Thank you for your tracking inquiry. Unfortunately, Lasership is unable to
confirm control of your package at this time. So that you may be promptly
assisted we are deeming this package as Lost by LaserShip. Please contact your
Seller for further assistance."

~~~
tamana
This is the premise of the classic Jiffy Express SNL skit.

------
tempestn
Like USPS, that probably means more Canada Post for us up here as well. Which
is unfortunate, because it's definitely an inferior experience. I've even paid
extra for two day shipping before, been told it's guaranteed to arrive on a
Friday, and had it not show up. Called Amazon and been told it would arrive
the next day, because the carrier unexpectedly had a short day on Friday.
(WTF) No package on Saturday, so I call again, and find out it's being shipped
by Canada post - which doesn't operate on the weekend, but apparently Amazon
didn't know that.

~~~
AYBABTME
Same here, I've been using Amazon heavily for all my purchases and recently
they started using less and less UPS to my great displeasure. Canada Post is
awful to deal with, I've been considering if my Prime membership is worth it
at all.

Getting delivery is supposed to be a smoother experience than physically
shopping. With Canada Post, or Fedex or Purolator or others, it's not. It's
just a major PITA when I have to drive to their distribution center to get a
package of soap that I wish they would just have dropped at the damn door.

It's weird to me, because Amazon has "Customer Experience" at the core of
their values. The customer experience is definitely degrading with the use of
non-UPS delivery.

~~~
tjl
Canada Post is far more reliable for me than UPS. In my building, I've had UPS
say that they "missed me", when I know for a fact I was home all day. This has
happened on multiple occasions.

------
larrik
I was wondering the other day if Amazon should have just outright bought UPS.
I doubt it would be in the public's best interest, but it seems like it would
make sense for Amazon.

Of course, they seem to be on track to compete directly with them instead.

I told my friend a few years ago that Amazon was my best guess for an existing
company to become "the company" from the Alien movies (or other corporate
future scifi), and it seems more and more likely every year.

~~~
protomyth
I would imagine UPS's union would give Amazon pause.

~~~
goldenkey
That union wouldn't allow Amazon to cry workers at their desks over the OLR
performance purging process.

~~~
PhantomGremlin
The UPS Teamsters union represents drivers, not desk workers.

There are quite a few non-union employees at UPS.

------
ghaff
Just so long as it doesn't increase USPS share. The USPS (somewhat
understandably) hates coming down my long driveway. But, as a consequence,
hangs stuff off my mailbox and overstuffs it (even though it's a very large
size), leaving it open. In the winter, I've even had packages basically tossed
in a snowbank.

~~~
stock_toaster
A colleague at work and I used to joke that part of OnTrac's shipping pipeline
must be a giant machine that blows cigarette smoke on packages and kicks them
down stairs. Here's hoping they don't start using them more either.

~~~
op00to
I have the same experience - any time you see a shady dude in a Jetta toss the
package on my porch from the street, you know the whole house is going to
smell like cigarettes from the box.

------
atomical
The bigger problem is that it's taking Amazon longer and longer to ship
packages -- unless you have prime. It's not good for the customer.

~~~
stinky613
My Prime deliveries used to arrive in 1-2 days. Ever since they started
diversifying their shipping partners, I have been getting my Prime packages in
2-3ish days.

I think the real standout was the time where they jammed the package into my
vertical-style mailbox on a rainy day, leaving my auto insurance bill soaked
beyond recognition. Thanks, USPS.

------
moondev
Any other prime members notice that packages take longer then 2 business days
to deliver recently?

------
slumberlust
I Love it when Prime is late. Open a chat and let them know you expected it on
time and they always give money back or extend Prime. Either is OK by me for
the day or two it is late. I even let them off the hook for any tardiness
around the holidays.

------
t0mas88
As a Dutch guy who recently moved abroad I have to admit we're extremely
spoiled in the Netherlands. There is no Amazon here (neighbouring countries do
have Amazon). But our main Amazon competitors (bol.com and coolblue.com) can
both deliver almost anything ordered before 10pm by the next day anywhere in
the (arguably quite small) country.

And delivery costs would be between 0 and 5 euro depending on the size. Mostly
free or 2 euros for both major sites.

Living abroad for a few months has really opened my eyes to how bad this is in
the US. And why people pay for Prime.

~~~
striking
Considering the US has 231x the area of the Netherlands (and the
infrastructure is far worse), we rely on hacks, kludges, and private industry
for stuff to get from one place to another.

Y'know, if you really think about it, the US is just one big growth hack.

Makes me all the more eager to move back to Poland.

~~~
sandstrom
Sweden has 30% lower population density than the US, but still a comparatively
great postal system. I don't think the large area is the only explanation.

~~~
erikpukinskis
I don't think population density is really the right metric:

[http://popdensitymap.ucoz.ru/76.Population_density-
administr...](http://popdensitymap.ucoz.ru/76.Population_density-
administrative_boundaries-ma.png)

[http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-
media/89/71789-004-8887...](http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-
media/89/71789-004-88879E35.jpg)

Russia is almost a third as dense as Sweden. To some extent it really is just
the huge distances that makes the problem hard.

------
delinka
I guess I've just been relying on Prime too much for the last year, but I
wonder: is _Amazon_ relying on USPS more often or are other sellers on
Amazon's site relying on USPS? I ask because, as an infrequent seller,
Amazon's shipping credit barely covers USPS First Class for the Standard
Shipping option that most customers choose. I certainly can't afford to lose
money shipping on UPS's slowest/cheapest offering instead.

------
protomyth
Its funny how different the delivery companies are to different parts of the
country. In my particular area of NoDak, UPS is really good and can find
people with fairly vague local directions. USPS is pretty ok, but has
absolutely no home delivery. FedEx and FedEx Ground[1] have earned my total
hatred. FedEx overnight is often FedEx 3 day and they are the only delivery
company that has made me drive 90 miles to get a package because they weren't
going to deliver it for a week. Never mind the condition of some of the
packages we get.

1) I thought they were the same company but was told differently in a pretty
rude tone by one of their drivers this was not the case.

~~~
jcrawfordor
My experience is that UPS works a lot better in rural areas. When I lived in a
small town off the freeway but otherwise in the middle of nowhere, UPS had a
very small service center in town (open an hour a day because it was staffed
by the driver) and kept 2-day deliveries on schedule. When the whole town was
snowed in, they couldn't get the trucks out, but still showed up at the
service center so you could pick things up.

FedEx didn't have a service center within an hour, always missed their
delivery estimates, and a couple of times declared addresses undeliverable for
no clear reason. When the town was snowed in, they just lost a package
forever.

------
foobarian
Funny coincidence, just today an Amazon van delivered some packages to me in
Natick, MA. I wonder where the warehouse is; there were a number of blurbs
over the last year on different potential warehouse locations. Nothing against
UPS but at Amazon's volume it does make sense to integrate the operations. You
can imagine all sorts of automation opportunities opening up in the warehouse.

------
aaronbrethorst
As always, click the little link marked "web", and then click the first result
on Google.

