
Robot Disinfects Greater Boston Food Bank - r_singh
https://news.mit.edu/2020/csail-robot-disinfects-greater-boston-food-bank-covid-19-0629
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beambot
I'm highly skeptical of their area coverage claims. The amount of UV-C
insolation required to effectively disinfect a surface is substantial. The UVD
Robots require 10-15 minutes to disinfect a single hospital room [1];
SmartGuardUV claims 1000 linear feet per 8 hours [2]; and we've modified our
safety & security robots to do disinfect elevator panels, doors, & other heavy
interaction points, which requires several minutes of exposure to be effective
[3].

You might be able to disinfect 10,000 sqft of space in 8 hours. But the MIT
robot doing 4k sqft in sub-30 minutes is highly suspect.

[1] [http://www.uvd-robots.com/](http://www.uvd-robots.com/)

[2]
[http://smartguarduv.com/specifications/](http://smartguarduv.com/specifications/)

[3] [https://cobaltrobotics.com/](https://cobaltrobotics.com/)

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mhb
I don't think anyone doubts that MIT can build a robot that can navigate a
factory or that they can attach UV lights to it. It would be more compelling
if they measured the efficacy of the disinfecting.

~~~
giarc
I'm pretty aware of this space (I work in healthcare and did my Masters in
contamination of hospital environments). There are a number of companies that
sell these units specifically for patient rooms. There was one that include 4
sensors that you placed in the corners of the room. They would detect the
amount of UVC light reaching them and adjust the 'clean time' to allow enough
UVC to reach all corners. As for the effectiveness of UVC light on pathogens,
that's pretty well known.

I suspect you are looking further, and asking if using a tool like this
actually reduces infections in a place like this food bank. I suspect no. For
one, coronavirus (and other resp viruses) don't live well on surfaces,
especially when going from varying environments (refrigerated storage,
delivery truck, someones house). Additionally our environment is covered with
a lot of (mostly) harmless bacteria, such as Bacillus sp. Bacillus can be
worrisome for people with no immune system, but for general population it
won't do anything.

I personally think UVC equipment has utility in specific use cases, such as
patient rooms, but in grocery stores, food banks etc it won't do much. In
those situations, its mostly about close person to person contact.

~~~
wittyreference
Coronavirus stays suspended in the air for hours. UVC disinfection affects
those suspended articles, which surface cleaning does not.

~~~
giarc
>Coronavirus stays suspended in the air for hours.

In controlled lab environments. Also, it likely doesn't stay in loads high
enough to cause infection. Any airborne virus will be affected by volume
displacement, air currents, air exchanges in addition to things like UV light
from the sun, humidity and temperature changes. If I were asked to pick a
disinfection method, I would not take disinfecting the air into my
consideration.

~~~
elliekelly
There’s some evidence it happens in the real world too. In the very early days
of the pandemic first there was a case in China where an infected but
asymptomatic person went to church and sat in a pew. That person left the
church and a different person who later sat in the same spot became infected.

~~~
giarc
That case was mentioned in a popular paper with about 8 others I recall. One
big issue is that they all occured pretty early on when testing wasn't so wide
spread. So there's also a good chance it was just a concidence and they were
actually exposed to someone else.

This is one issue with the media. That paper, with less than 10 case reports
of asymptomatic and potential airborne spread was spread much more rapidly
than the WHO report which reviewed ~70k Chinese cases and most spread within
household contacts.

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atonse
This is great for our time, but I worry about the long term effects on the
immune system of us living in what are going to be Hyper sterilized
environments everywhere we go. (And breathing ultra clean air too)

~~~
scotty79
The only side effect of living cleaner so far (although this is still
disputable) is not having parasites anymore and not having immunity
suppressing effect they have on your system. This still is net benefit though
since parasitic diseases take a toll on the body.

~~~
forgotmyp77
problem is immune system has been tuned to develop with parasites and
malfunctions without them.

~~~
mc32
Hence auto-immune diseases.

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cushychicken
Is this robot dangerous to be exposed to? I'm under the impression that UV-C
is very dangerous to eyesight.

Side note/digression: the Greater Boston Food Bank can provide somewhere
between 3-4 meals for people in need per dollar donated. They are my local
foodbank and I've been giving as generously as I can during COVID times. I
encourage you to do the same with your local foodbank. Food banks can achieve
synergies with grocery chains and food wholesalers that individuals cannot.
Your dollars go a long way there!!

~~~
wiremine
> I'm under the impression that UV-C is very dangerous to eyesight.

Yes, among other things. It also has negative side effects on the surface it's
cleaning. But there's some interesting IP in the space to maximize the
effectiveness while minimizing time and energy used. Not all UV-C is the same.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Far UVC is supposedly safe for humans.

> To continuously and safely disinfect occupied indoor areas, researchers at
> Columbia University Irving Medical Center have been investigating far-UVC
> light (222 nm wavelength). Far-UVC light cannot penetrate the tear layer of
> the eye or the outer dead-cell layer of skin and so it cannot reach or
> damage living cells in the body.

[https://www.cuimc.columbia.edu/news/far-uvc-light-safely-
kil...](https://www.cuimc.columbia.edu/news/far-uvc-light-safely-kills-
airborne-coronaviruses) ("Far-UVC Light Safely Kills Airborne Coronaviruses")

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ape4
I'm disappointed that it's remotely driven by a human.

~~~
BlahGod420
Humans just have to set waypoints. It's no roomba though.

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jayrot
Imagine that thing just fucking bumping into everything over and over to
navigate....

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remote_phone
I think Far-UVC light is going to be the next generation method of general
santization. Far-UVC light is neither harmful to skin nor the eyes, making it
safe for general use. I don’t believe it creates ozone either.

I bought a couple of UVC light bulbs early in the pandemic and used them early
on but found it extremely hard to use, especially because of the ozone
generated. Also because it’s light, it doesn’t cover everything unless you
move the object around. I think there’s a lot of promise though so it’s
something I’m looking forward to.

~~~
mc32
Line of sight of course as you mention is the big drawback compared with
something like ozone which can get into nooks and crannies.

~~~
giarc
There is also vaporized hydrogen peroxide that is used to disinfect surfaces.
Doesn't have the same shadow effect that UVC does.

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scotty79
What do you think about using ozone generator to disinfect items that might
have contact with the virus, like groceries or mail?

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exhilaration
Ozone is a lung irritant and damages plastic, you've gotta be careful with
using it around your home on a regular basis. Maybe inside a sealed container?

~~~
scotty79
That was my thinking. I basically built something like that. I bough small
ozone generator that has a pump, inlet and outlet (it was designed for
bubbling ozone through water). I put both inlet and outlet inside large
cardboard box and when I run it I put the whole box outside because the box is
not sealed and small leaks or venting it at the end would release ozone into
my apartment which as you say is lung and throat irritant. I haven't notice
any damage to plastic. It may have some effect on glue on the duct tape I used
to modify the box.

I'm running the generator for 10-15 minutes and then let the stuff sit in
generated ozone for additional 20 minutes. But I have no idea if I'm improving
my security or just performing security theater for my own amusement.

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seemslegit
Quickly gets dismantled after developing consciousness, insisting to dwell on
the nuances of sexual misconduct allegations against prominent former staff
member.

