

Ask HN: Our government is spying on us. What are we going to do? - bsbechtel

Over the past several weeks, HN has been full of articles, comments, and links discussing Edward Snowden&#x27;s revelations, but I have yet to see any real ideas, suggestions, or action on how we, as citizens, can prevent our government from doing something like this (in secret or openly) again in the future. This community is full of some of the most creative problem solvers in the world who love to disrupt the status quo. What are some of your ideas?
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boot

           No, no, go not to Tor, neither private mode, 
    
                  Nor duck-duck-go the tight-rooted, for its secretive wine;
    
           Nor suffer thy pale forehead to be kiss'd
    
                  By anti-cloud sentiment, ruby grape prose of NSA;
    
                          Make not your rosary in tinfoil hats,
    
                  Nor let the politicians, the doomsayers-media be
    
                          Your mournful Psyche. The downy social media
    
           A partner in your sorrow's mysteries;
    
                  For shade to shade will come too drowsily,
    
                          And drown the wakeful anguish of the soul.
    
           But when the melancholy fit shall fall
    
                  Sudden from heaven like a weeping cloud,
    
           That fosters the droop-headed flowers all,
    
                  And hides the green hill in an April shroud;
    
           Then glut thy sorrow on a morning HN,
    
                  Or on the rainbow of the salt sand-reddit,
    
                          Or on the wealth of globed nerds from afar;
    
           Or if thy mistress some rich anger shows,
    
                  Imprison her harsh hand, and let her rave,
    
                          And feed deep, deep upon her peerless eyes.
    
           She dwells with Government—Government that must die;
    
                  And NSA, whose hand is ever at his lips
    
           Bidding adieu; and aching Pleasure nigh,
    
                  Turning to poison while the lying-mouth sips:
    
           Ay, in the very temple of Delight
    
                  Veiled Melancholy has her sovereign shrine,
    
                          Though seen of none save him whose strenuous tongue
    
                  Can burst Joy's grape against his palate fine;
    
           His soul shalt taste the sadness of her might,
    
                          And be among her cloudy trophies hung.
    
    

(Originally By John Keats)

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dgunn
Things like this don't make great revolutions. People won't care enough.
People need to see a real threat to their lives before you can get an
uprising. They have to be hungry or homeless or in some kind of actual pain.

Being spied on sucks. I don't want it to happen to me or you. But in the end,
the government is only infringing on what it, itself, established as our
rights. It keeps the economy moving along just enough to keep food on our
tables and roofs over our heads and thus keeps us, in large, satisfied enough
to stay home and not fight them.

There are other countries which don't even have a false promise of privacy.
Some whose citizens don't eat daily and whose lives are constantly threatened.
These are the countries which have unrest. They fight their governments and
ultimately cause real change. We have had those situations here in the past.
Privacy wasn't what caused it.

You can "#restorethefourth" if you want but it will be like most first world
protests. You'll wrap up around 7, go to your comfy homes, eat dinner and
sleep feeling completely secure and you'll dare not do anything to screw that
up.

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mkstowegnv
crowdfund a new political party with pro bill of rights, anti-corporatist
smaller government platform

specific prohibitions for fourth amendment abuses

better whistle blower protecting legislation

supporting constitutional amendments for all of the following; ending
corporate personhood, enacting real campaign finance reform, restoring Glass
Steagall)

breaking up all too big to fail corporations

when enough money or risk to life is involved making it a capital offense/
treason to: supply false testimony to congress or government regulators, etc,
or to disseminate false information to the public or business (eg LIBOR
distortions), or to unnecessarily make classified any such information

smaller, better government through 'government as a service' Govt 2.0 ideas
(see g.g. Lessig), testing legislators on content of bills before they can
vote on them, line item vetoes

This party would recruit its candidates (not accept those who nominate
themselves) through a computerized equivalent of the way honeybees choose a
new nest (see Sealey Honeybee Democracy). Candidates would have to have a
track record of volunteer service and a minimum history of published political
writing addressing actual legislation - (likely drawing heavily on bloggers
and academics).

~~~
ante_annum
> specific prohibitions for fourth amendment abuses

Not to be coy, but wouldn't that be the Fourth Amendment itself?

Or do you mean to explicitly expand what the Fourth is believed to cover?

------
publiusx
The solution is not in technology, although I suspicion it will be the geeks
that will move this forward. I've already laid out a plan at my site
unfetteredspeech.com. The following url will take you directly to the plan:
[http://unfetteredspeech.com/?page_id=737](http://unfetteredspeech.com/?page_id=737)
Live Free...PubliusX

------
MisterWebz
Do we use politics or technology to fix this?

~~~
bsbechtel
Politics doesn't seem to be working. I'm thinking technology. Our Primary
Election system seems to be broken. It's dominated by extremists from both
parties, and rarely reported on in the mainstream media. The media also tends
to give the most coverage to the most extreme candidates, because they're the
most interesting (and thus get the most viewers). It seems that a system could
be developed using social media that allowed you to nominate those you know
personally for office (using Facebook, Twitter, etc), and give the nominees a
platform (blog, webpage, money-raising features) to discuss their views if
they decided to run. This would at least move the vetting of primary
candidates to a crowd-sourced model vs the media, which is struggling
financially, doing most of the vetting.

~~~
MisterWebz
I won't comment on the feasibility of your suggestion, but you're proposing to
use technology to solve a political problem.

~~~
bsbechtel
I guess it starts with how we define the problem. Edward Snowden whistle-
blowing to the press is a problem, for the NSA. The government using the NSA
to spy on us is a problem, for us. The lack of qualified candidates running
for office who won't spy on us is a problem, for us.

Technology makes our lives better by solving problems. Defining this as a
political problem is only limits the solutions we can come up with. Obviously
the U.S. Government doesn't have any problem using technology for political
purposes. As citizens, why shouldn't we?

I'm not anymore sure than you if my suggestion is feasible, but my point is to
at least throw some ideas out there.

------
ethanazir
If you can't beat them, join them, turn in that weird person today.

------
timmm
Nothing, because no one gives a shit.

Stop flattering yourself, no one is reading your facebook messages or emails.

~~~
future_grad
Damn, you must be one hell of a guy! I am so happy people like you are around
to give great advice!

------
godgod
#restorethefourth pick a city near you and go protest. It's time you did
something real. restorethefourth.net

