
Towards a repeatable and practicable strategy for customer development - zackattack
http://www.zacharyburt.com/2010/01/towards-a-repeatable-and-practicable-strategy-for-customer-development/
======
jacquesm
What's your secret Zachary, 4 upvotes in 0 minutes.

It can't be that good :)

A while ago there was a question here by someone if there was evidence of
voting posses and bury brigades, if this isn't it then I don't know what would
be it.

see here: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1017031>

~~~
zackattack
I asked all my friends to read it while i was drafting it. Then I posted it
and asked them to upvote it. I guess the ethics are ambiguous because there's
no mention of it in the HN submission guidelines and as far as I know it's
common practice.

At the end of the day I posted it to spur discussion about a relevant topic to
the HN community and in the spirit of that I ask that you generously apply
your intelligence to criticism of the article's claims and suggestions.

~~~
jacquesm
> Then I posted it and asked them to upvote it.

Do you think that's ok?

~~~
zackattack
I do, or I wouldn't have done it. This is beginning to feel suspiciously like
a game [1].

[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transactional_analysis>

~~~
jacquesm
Ok. Fair enough.

Here is what I think, and we disagree strongly about this:

I think it goes _entirely_ against the spirit of what HN is about. I may be
wrong about that, but that's what I feel.

If you use your friends - and sockpuppets apparently - to cheat your way on to
the front page as a long time and fairly visible member of the community then
you are setting a very bad example.

It's true that plenty of 'good stuff' scrolls off the new page before it gets
enough upvotes to make it to the homepage, but that's life, everybody takes
their chances with that.

You are essentially changing it from a level playingfield in to a 'how many
friends can I muster' game.

The fact that it isn't in the guidelines is not relevant, I think that you
could easily work out for yourself that even if it isn't in the guidelines
that this is not the way HN is supposed to work.

The same mechanism (bringing your friends along to flag an entry that you
don't like) could be used for burying content.

I'd hate to see HN go down the drain the way digg did because of behaviour
like this.

Ethics is not what's in the guidelines, ethics is knowing intuitively what is
wrong and what is not and then living by that.

Lawyers read the guidelines and figure out how they can cheat without getting
caught, nice people play by the rules even when they're unwritten.

edit: I completely fail to see what that link you added has to do with the
price of tea in China.

edit2: I've posted an 'Ask HN' to get an idea about how others feel about
this: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1035206>

~~~
zackattack
I agree with your points only because my goal is to offer an idea and then
have it be sublated as a result of discussion, with new truths revealed.

Because I used an unorthodox tactic, the thread was derailed. So nobody's
discussing anything about practical Customer Development.

~~~
jacquesm
Essentially your argument is 'the end justifies the means' because somehow
your posting is important enough for this but those of others are not.

The thread was derailed because you chose to cheat and got called out for it,
but most likely it has worked wonders for you in the past.

Look, I have 0 clout on this site, but if this were _my_ site you'd be booted
out for this, it's as simple as that.

There are plenty of people that have been kicked off HN for just their tone of
voice (unalone comes to mind, he may not be the most polished of characters
but some of his stuff was quite interesting), the only saving grace as far as
I can see is that you at least are honest about what you did.

What I'm really wondering about is how common this tactic really is. If you
think it is ok and you ask your friend to vote your stuff up, it stands to
reason that you'd do the same for them, it is proof positve that there is a
back-channel that is being used to muster voting and/or flag power beyond what
'ordinary' users have.

That's a really really bad development in my eyes.

Or would you like to state that you are not aware of anything like this
happening in the past because of you asking your friends to vote stuff up or
flag it and / or you voting stuff up for your friends and / or flagging stuff
at their request?

------
apsurd
in alignment with the meta-discussion sparked by jacquesm, and after reading
the actual submission, boy it sure _does_ seem like we've been gamed.

Is a shortened regurgitation of a steve blank book sleeve really worth being
on the front page? If so, why not just a link to his blog or the book on
amazon?

<http://steveblank.com/>

<http://amzn.com/0976470705>

I know why you wrote the post; to market your website, but HN front page-
worthy? I should _hope_ not.

~~~
zackattack
Did you read my entire post? Is it really nothing more than a "shortened
regurgitation of a steve blank book sleeve"? Do you at least see what I was
trying to do?

~~~
apsurd
After reading it again, yes it is regurgitation.

My intent is not to scrutinize and demean your efforts. I think we both know
why you wrote the post, to market your app. I have no issue with that, so long
as you are honest with yourself. I understand people repackage content all the
time, it's business as usual. But this is HN, you are asking for a discussion
on the merits of what _you_ have to say. And in that respect, you've said
nothing.

 _#1, Market Assessment, is the hard problem._

That's quite hard to believe. Especially when your solution to this problem is
essentially 3 links. A survey, a splash page, and your twitter app. (2 of
which are free).

So how is implementing these 3 things _harder_ than:

    
    
      2. Product Building
      3. Get product into hands of early customers
    

For the technical minded, building a product may not be on their "it's really
hard" list but most likely just because they love to do it (myself included).

I think #3 is probably the hardest for most of us here on HN. Do you mean to
tell me its easy to get lots of early adopters to actually give a damn about
your product to fill out your survey in the first place? Please write a post
on how to get 50 dedicated users to fill out my survey and I'll be the first
one to upvote that story - I promise. Oh and if it works, I'll sign up for
your app too - dead serious.

------
yycom
> You must have Javascript enabled to view this site.

And who the fuck are you?

------
devinbalkind
Agreed. Great links.

