

The BaseShield App Store for Windows launches (YC Winter 08) - skuzins
http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/11/25/ycombinator-startup-creates-a-better-download-app-store-for-windows-baseshield/

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pg
I have to salute the Baseshields for their imagination. Originally the
virtualization sw was going to be the product. Might still be. But then they
realized that, having built it, they could basically take over the delivery of
software on Windows. I was blown away when Patrick came by YC to give me a
demo. I thought I was going to be seeing a demo of virtualization sw, which,
frankly, is not that interesting, and instead they'd built the Windows App
Store.

~~~
adamsmith
They could turn it into even more than delivering software on Windows. I'd pay
to have a virtualization layer that transports settings/environments across my
computers. For example, I like to set up custom keyboard shortcuts in my text
editor, but every time I set up a new computer I have to reconfigure all of
those settings. That shouldn't be necessary.

BTW I feel like the TC article didn't communicate the key point very well.
They didn't mention virtualization until eight sentences in.

~~~
marcus
Hmm, combine BaseShield with DropBox and you might have a winner...

You should also add a way for developers to bundle their software directly
with the BaseShield so they can distribute the bundle as a single package on
their website. This will save small developers a ton of effort in writing an
automatic software updater, they'll be able to simply rely on your mechanism.

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swies
Hi everyone!

We'd like to especially encourage any news.yc readers who write windows apps
to distribute them via BaseShield. Just get in touch with me at my personal
email: pat (at) baseshield.com -- if you want to list it for free we'll get it
up right away, if you'd like to charge you'll be at the top of the list once
we get payments going.

Thanks!

~~~
jwilliams
Not sure if you have this on your radar, but this would be useful in the
corporate world.

Corporates spend massive amounts on deploying desktop software - and even then
it's a painful, risky process. This would assist that process in a lot of
ways.

(Edit: And when I say massive - I mean massive. I've seen XP deploys that were
in the 10's to 100's of millions. A big chunk of this is software packaging
and deploy).

~~~
thorax
It is a big marketplace with huge players (i.e. Microsoft, Symantec, Citrix,
etc) already doing app virtualization/streaming. Still, since it's so large
other major companies will be looking for a good platform to build upon if
they can get into it, too.

I made a comment above which is probably better suited for this thread:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=377308>

~~~
jwilliams
> Still, since it's so large other major companies will be looking for a good
> platform to build upon if they can get into it, too.

Yup - And I don't think any of the big players have really "nailed it" by a
long shot yet. Corps still spend a vast amount of time in packaging/testing.

Also, there is probably a neat open source niche there - take on a BaseShield
style service, then simply pick up pre-packaged X-Y-Z, with all the
updates/etc. Just as you would a mature distro.

I can see that being a really appealing model.

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biohacker42
Virtualization layer!

That's something I would not have thought of first. Despite the fact that
windows security was on my mind when I started reading that article.

Virtualizatin is a hefty technology chunk to bite of for a small team, very
impressive.

Best of luck to the BaseShield dudes and dudettes.

~~~
bprater
Agreed. It always annoys me that I have to reinstall my OS every six months
because of the crap I end up downloading.

~~~
Kaizyn
Not downloading and installing crap would significantly improve your
experience of using the computer.

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markessien
I read the description, and though - that sounds pretty cool. But trying it
sucks:

1\. I don't know what these 'apps' are. Only baseshield apps or any
applications at all?

2\. I'm using Mac OS X. It offered me a .exe. Tell us that on your homepage

3\. Surely you can spend a bit of money to get some proper icons and not use
icons that hundreds of people are already using

4\. Give me some sort of idea what apps are in there without requiring me to
install a .exe. Is it worth it at all - I can't know without some idea of the
apps.

In general, it's a pretty good idea, and something like this is neccessary for
windows.

~~~
spydez
Concerning #2: Right below the giant "Install Now" button it says, "Beta |
14MB | Runs on Windows XP and Vista".

I don't think they expect OS X folks to download it...

~~~
stcredzero
Actually, if you packaged a Windows installation with it, you _could_ put a
special version of this on OS X!

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dmpayton
Idea time.

Every time I reformat my windows machine I have to manually download and
install all the programs I use. So what about the ability to create common
configurations? Or tag apps?

You could simply click "Install all apps tagged with 'X'", go make dinner, and
and come back to a machine that's ready to go. For those who reformat often or
are always setting up new vbox/vmware instances (like me), this would be very
handy. Of course, it also depends on which apps are available.

Note: I have not yet used BaseShield, so if something like this is already in
place, ignore me.

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tocomment
Wow, that's actually a really good idea. I always assume there can be no
innovation left for the desktop. I've got to stop thinking that.

~~~
stcredzero
Algorithm for determining if there's innovation left for X. Ask yourself these
questions:

    
    
        1) Are there lots of people who really want to use X?
        2) Is there something that sucks about X?
    

Your answer is the AND of these two.

~~~
aaronblohowiak
You may have a useful algorithm, but it does not determine if there is
innovation left for X. It seems to be a function that determines if there is
potential profit in innovating for X.

~~~
pchristensen
There's _always_ innovation left for X. This algorithm determines if it's
worth pursuing.

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s3graham
Neat, seems to work reasonably well.

Inkscape's a bit slow, and the breakout game has some horrible sound lag, but
the get/install/run UX is really great.

Anyone know how the virtualize is done?

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illumen
I don't really see how you can claim it makes apps safe if you provide access
to 3D hardware. Anyone who has done any 3D hardware programming will know that
it's easy to crash/exploit through 3D APIs.

Having said that... nice one!

I see some code I wrote on there is being offered up! So can you please send
me the source ;) You should provide any source for binaries you are
distributing that require such things... including diffs to changes you've
made (for software with those licenses).

There's lots of these types of app stores(portals) around... but I like how
you've at least attempted to make it safe. I still think a process of review
and trust will help just as much, so I hope you have those ideas mixed in.

Also, are you doing anything to try and stop piracy for paid apps?

~~~
ivank
Can you actually completely take down Vista 64 through 3D APIs, given the
user-level drivers? It would be very interesting if you could. The only
plausible way I know of is to repeatedly crash the driver for several minutes,
and even this is uncertain (I've seen this happen with Forceware + DirectX
10).

~~~
illumen
Not entirely sure about vista 64.

However I've taken down vista 32 and win XP.

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halo
A few comments from using it:

* The installer is utterly terrible and gave me no options whatsoever like installation location or where to put icons, which is just outright obnoxious in the Windows world.

* The application installs it itself in C:\Windows\system32\BaseShield\BaseShield\Data\AppStore. This is extremely bad karma - I have /never/ used a legitimate application that did this. Hiding your application amongst the operating system is just something you outright don't do.

* The uninstall is flawed. It did not remove the applications and left data in c:\Users\Username\AppData\Local\BaseShield, c:\Users\Username\AppData\Local\BaseShield\ and c:\Windows\System32\Baseshield\Baseshield. It also did not uninstall the application I installed to test (Abiword), leaving 24 megabytes of data on my hard-disk drive, and I had to uninstall it by hand, along with removing its icon from both my desktop and start menu.

* Using an application's icon in the application stub that launches the main application is dubiously legal at best.

* The user interface is bad, and makes Steam look good, which is a scary state of affairs. Please use Windows-native widgets where possible.

Personally, I would not use, nor recommend anyone use, the application as
currently designed.

~~~
skuzins
This installer makes it as easy as possible to install the product without
asking the user to make unnecessary decisions. The reasoning is that the few
users who don't want a desktop icon are likely to be advanced users like you
who can easily delete the icon.

Regarding installation in the Windows directory, flash also does this
(C:\WINDOWS\system32\Macromed\Flash). For BaseShield there are technical
reasons why some components need to be below the system32 directory.

Please use the one click uninstall to remove downloaded applications before
uninstalling BaseShield. We need to make this more clear or automatic, sorry.

Feel free to contact me directly at sascha (at) baseshield.com with any
technical issues.

Thanks for trying it out and for your feedback!

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kenshi
This could be awesome if it takes off. I've always thought the biggest barrier
to desktop app adoption vs webapp adoption is the problem of finding and
deploying apps. If this takes off we could witness a rejuvenation in the
market for desktop apps on Windows.

As a developer who is often frustrated by how much application development
these days is limited to the capabilities of the browser, something that
solves the problem of safely deploying and managing application installs,
really appeals.

Good luck Baseshield guys!

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epall
Man I wish I had this for OS X apps. I know there are tons of awesome apps out
there for the Mac, and I use many, but if there were some central place to
find them I'm sure I'd buy more.

~~~
joshwa
<http://osx.iusethis.com/> <http://www.versiontracker.com/>

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staunch
I really do like this and if it's good and there's good software available
through it I would definitely recommend it to friends and family.

But, by making it safe, easy and quick to install desktop applications again
one could argue that BaseShield is really the enemy of every web application
in existence. It's going to have to die.

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snprbob86
Really cool product/tech!

Have you looked at Softricity and their product SoftGrid? SoftGrid was a
similar app virtualization platform. It was quite mature and complete. They
were acquired by Microsoft a few years ago. I think some of their tech is
being used in Windows 7 with the pending Application Binary Interface break.

~~~
Feynman
Exactly. This product is like a very, very early SoftGrid... which has been
out for a few years now. It's now called Microsoft Application Virtualization
(Softricity was purchased by Microsoft about 2 years ago).

This certainly isn't anything new -- software virtualization on Windows.
VMWare has a s/w virt. product, so Does Altiris, and so does Citrix Xen. I
suppose since these products are mainly enterprise focused, most people never
even hear of them.

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endlessvoid94
Doesn't support 64-bit windows?

I'd LOVE to use this product. I'll be watching avidly for a release that
supports 64-bit vista.

Not to be overly critical, I realize 64-bit isn't a priority for a startup,
but why wouldn't it be supported? Is there really that much of a difference
for an application?

~~~
skuzins
You're absolutely right, no fundamental reason why it wouldn't work. It's
mainly that some components need to be re-compiled for 64bit with some
adjustments for Wow64. It's high up on the list of things to get done.

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vizard
Well I guess there is still a long road ahead. They are a
service+infrastructure provider. I would approach some ISVs to actually deploy
via BaseShield and to also approach some IHVs to bundle BaseShield with new
PCs perhaps.

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bprater
Hopefully, it won't require developers to use a specific language or
framework.

An interesting alternative idea might be to create a cross-platform "app
store" written in AIR that delivers cross-platform AIR apps.

~~~
snprbob86
That's the beauty of virtualization: You just find a layer to slice at below
everything else, cut there, and everything above it should work. Hopefully,
reguardless of language or framework if you make your cut at the right place.

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pavelludiq
I really liked how the icons on the right side of the home page look
surprisingly gnome-like :D

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suaku
Great Stuff! Hope this will become the next Apple iphone app store for the
rest of us!

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ideamonk
How do I put my own app on sale on BaseShielf App Store ?

~~~
swies
We have a form linked from the front page of the App Store just below the
featured apps.

You can also just get in touch with me: pat (at) baseshield.com and we'll get
you going quickly. Because of our secure virtualization layer apps can run
safely with no modification needed.

