
Ask HN: Reasonable expectations of a senior co-founder? - funargz
Last August I joined a startup. I really like the company, the work, the ideas, and the people (I'm the 3rd) but there's one issue that is starting to upset me, and it's getting to the point where it's affecting my work. I'm looking for advice on whether or not I'm being reasonable, and what I should do about the matter.<p>I joined as the third, youngest, least skilled, and most junior partner. The others I'll call the CEO and CTO. The CEO is very smart and fairly technical, but not familiar with most of the tools I am going to be using, so he can't really mentor me on my day-to-day work. The CTO is an excellent hacker, and using the same tools that I'll use. I came on with the expectation that I'd be learning from the CTO and eventually rise to his level of technical skill.<p>Our CTO decided to take a working vacation to San Diego, starting Oct. 20, for entirely personal reasons (family + dislike of Chicago weather). When I joined the company, I knew about this, but was led to believe that it would be one month. However, he pushed it out to two months, then a little more, and now it's essentially indefinite.<p>I'm an ardent opponent of the two weeks' vacation policies set by Big Dumb Companies, and I'd be completely fine with him taking a 1-month working vacation (especially since I knew about it when I took the job) but an indefinite and possibly 3+ month absence during a startup's critical phase just seems excessive to me. He's writing code and putting in the hours, but I don't find email and phone calls to be conducive to mentoring. As far as education goes, there are too many intangibles that work only in person.<p>I'm the newest and most junior co-founder, so I'm not in a position to tell the CTO what to do, but I am starting to get pissed about the indefinite nature of the absence, and the fact that his reasons are entirely personal. First of all, I think anyone who has as much equity as he has ought to be fully committed to building the business, which means more than writing code. Building the business also entails being there in person, mentoring the new guys, interviewing (when that becomes an issue), et cetera. Second, his working vacation benefits neither me nor, in any way I can see, the company. It's personal and not of an urgent nature. Third, it's frankly discouraging to me that our CTO isn't planning on coming back to Chi on a definite and reasonable date, and it's starting to affect my work. Fourth, I don't feel like either he or I have "earned" the right to take 3-month working vacations; shouldn't we build a successful company first, and take lifestyle liberties <i>after</i> accomplishing that? Fifth, I wouldn't have ended my job search had I known that one of the partners, especially the person who was supposed to be mentoring me, was going to do this.<p>Am I getting bent out of shape over something I shouldn't, or do I have a legitimate grievance? Also, what should I do? I'm considering bringing the matter up with the CEO on Monday, but I don't really want to "play politics" against the CTO. He's my friend, a co-founder, and a great hacker I hope to learn a lot from. On the other hand, though I might be asking too much, I feel completely shorted on this matter. I'm not learning nearly as fast as I would if the CTO were on-site, and I frankly feel like this point in the company's trajectory is too important for 1/3 of the company to be thousands of miles away.
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gojomo
Thoughts in no particular order:

() a 'working vacation' isn't really a vacation

() make sure there aren't other personal matters which make his indefinite
presence in San Diego more important -- an ill family member, crucial
relationship to be maintained, etc.

() is he still being highly productive, even though not at the level of
personal interaction you desire? If so, it's at least plausible that he thinks
he's doing his role properly, until he's clued-in otherwise.

() physical presence always helps but it's now very possible and even common
for key contributors to be remote, and indeed sometimes that better fits a
person's most productive workstyle. So don't get hung up on location if
everything else is OK (or can be made OK).

() speak directly with the 'CTO' about your desire for more
interaction/mentoring before going to the 'CEO'.

() There are many ways to be 'present' besides physically; give him a chance
to deliver the closer involvement/mentoring you think that you and business
need those other ways, too -- don't make physically "being there" the only
litmus test of commitment.

You concern is legitimate but focus solely on productivity (his, yours, and
team's), not symbolism, and express your concern in a way that gives him many
ways to address it without making it an ultimatum about returning by a certain
date or otherwise making him defensive.

~~~
funargz
He's productive. I'm not bothered by his original decision to spend a month in
San Diego. I think that's reasonable and I wish more companies were accepting
of that sort of thing. I'm just annoyed about (1) the indefinite nature of his
time away, and (2) the fact that I was led to believe it would be a month, not
3+. I probably wouldn't have called off my job search if I had known that the
person who was supposed to be mentoring me was going to be spending a majority
of the time away from "the office" in my first 6 months. At least, I would've
waited till there was more stability before committing to the company.

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cardmagic
I think you are asking the wrong people here. It might sound scary, but it
will be a lot easier than you think to just have an honest and frank
conversation with the CTO. Don't go into a blame game, just explain your
expectations in an honest, direct, and highly respectful tone. You are not
going to make any progress if you do not open up communications and let
yourself be heard.

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mdakin
Arrange for your company to house you in San Diego during this critical period
and enjoy the winter in California.

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jwilliams
Going into business is sort of like a marriage. There is no right or wrong -
just people's expectations, their individual effort and
willingness/determination to get along.

Aside from when people are being ludicrous (it happens) there is no point in
asking "should I be annoyed at this?". The company is something you are
building together and you together get to decide how it works and looks.

Just tell them you find this unusual, you want to discuss - ask what their
view is. They might have a quite reasonable interpretation - of they might be
jerks about it - or you might find out you're being a jerk about it... just
start a rational dialogue first.

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bestes
Having a highly skilled and productive co-founder is a huge asset. Nobody is
perfect and living 3000 miles away doesn't seem like a deal-breaker (not even
close).

Effort (and appearances) are not the same thing as results. It's possible you
are mixing these up to _some_ degree. Consider: face-time, "earning" vacation
and lack of clear policies/directions are all prized in big corporations.

Oh, and I second (or third) the idea that you just move to San Diego.
Seriously.

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lacker
This might be crazy, but if you are afraid to bring it up, you could pull a
Seinfeld-style maneuver and say, it's really important that we all be in the
same place, and suggest that if the CTO doesn't want to ever move back, then
maybe the whole company should move to San Diego. At least it's a way to get
it out there.

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dhimes
I'm not sure I would discuss it unless it really gets in the way. He may have
picked you for a bright team member who can handle it-- and maybe you can.
When and if it starts to be a problem, that is, when you actually are sure you
are not learning what you feel you should be from him and the project is
suffering, then broach the subject with the CEO. Perhaps the guy _will_ come
back when a need is demonstrated.

If this business is a good opportunity for you, just hang tight. The other guy
could have the bigger problem anyway: Your proximity to the CEO is going to
make you very valuable to him if you end up being a reliable player. The CTO
may find himself out of the loop.

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critke
I also think you should discuss it with the other two - this can't be good for
your productivity - which is essential in such a small team. I've always been
pretty good at making sure I'm happy and productive with my work AND learning
stuff. Each of those ingredients is important - I think that even if only one
is not there to your satisfaction, you should think about moving on. But
moving on is not something that should be taken lightly. Because you're going
to have lots of really tough times in a startup. Full of doubt and angst. And
I mean really. And there will be disagreements. Big time.

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vaksel
how does your equity break down?

~~~
funargz
He has 5 times as much as I do. This is reasonable because he's been working
for over a year on the project (all pre-funding, thus on deferred cash) and I
came in recently, understanding that funding (and regular salaries + health
coverage) would probably come circa Nov-Jan. Obviously, if funding is later to
come, I'm going to ask for more equity.

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petergroverman
I'd be disappointed and speak your mind...

