
Post-Olympic Abandonment - pmcpinto
https://medium.com/studiotmd/post-olympic-abandonment-d13783033e36#.ojwj64oli
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saalweachter
Would it negatively impact the Olympics if we stopped rotating them at this
point? I mean, besides the IOC missing out on the opportunity compete with
FIFA on graft?

Let's just locate the Olympics in a permanent facility -- Greece, if they'll
have them, for tradition. I think between "not rebuilding everything from
scratch every four years" and the expectation of recurring events, the single
host country could both run the games more efficiently and it would benefit
the economy a lot more -- sure, it'd only benefit the one host country, but it
would be going from "not benefiting a lot host countries (who go over-budget
and never make back the money on tourism)" to "actually benefiting one host
country".

Let the IOC auction off the opening show if you want to give one country a
chance to show off every four years.

~~~
sizzzzlerz
So Greece, for example, becomes responsible for the maintenance and updates to
the facilities, which they obviously can't afford now? Having a single host
country works only if all the participating countries chip in annually
according to their GNP or some other measure of their financial worth. How,
then, is that enforced? You can always exclude those countries who are in
arrears but that only harms the athletes. For example, losing the Kenyan
runners from the Olympics because their country won't or can't pay would be a
travesty and cheapen the events. Either that or the world class athletes would
relocate to a wealthy nation, sending yet another blow to their home country.

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untog
I'd be interested to know how the financial benefit of hosting the Olympics
(tourism, etc) would compare to upkeep of permanent facilities. In theory the
crowds coming to town every 4 years would be a big economic boost, though
perhaps not enough of one.

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nhaehnle
It depends a lot on whether the facilities can be put to good use and how big
the tourism effect is in the interim.

An interesting case to study here is the town of Oberammergau in Bavaria.
Several centuries ago, the people there vowed to put on a passion play every
ten years if they were spared by the plague. They stuck to that vow and have
been doing it ever since, putting on an absolutely top quality production each
time. The next one will be in 2020, and tickets tend to be sold out years in
advance.

Even though the town rakes in a _lot_ of money during passion play years, they
tended to be in financial dire straits all the time because of the enormous
fluctuation, and (comparatively recently) started to use the rather large
facilities that were built for the play also for other cultural events in off-
years.

10 years gives you a bigger gap than the 4 years of the Olympics, but I'd
expect similar issues to arise.

BTW, the story of Oberammergau really is absolutely fascinating. One of the
rules is that only people born there can participate in the play, with the
consequence being that the town systematically produces a massive amount of
talented musicians, actors, and other artists, considering how small it is.
Really makes you think: if there's so much potential there, then how much
human potential are we wasting almost everywhere else!

Another fun fact is that one of the first electrified railways in Germany was
built specifically to connect Munich to Oberammergau.

~~~
mulmen
I think previous commenters have suggested this but what about splitting the
Olympics up into four years of competitions. So 1/4 of the the events are
played every year. There would be "premiere" events to draw people in but the
less-viewed sports could actually get more attention because there is less
competition for viewership.

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sizzzzlerz
It seems to me that the countries that maintained their Olympic facilities
(England, Australia, US, Norway, Germany, China) all tilt to the wealthier end
of the spectrum. Conversely, the poorer ones, Brazil and Greece, really
couldn't afford hosting the games in the first place, let alone maintaining
the venues afterwards. These days, its the wealthier countries that turn down
the offer to host because of the costs while the poorer ones, often led by
corrupt and bankrupt governments, are awarded the "honor" resulting into even
deeper poverty for their people and short-term glorification of the
government.

~~~
chiph
Even in the US, cities are catching on that hosting an Olympics is likely a
money-losing event, and they'll be saddled with poorly-built large facilities
afterwards (why build well when you can build fast?).

Permanent facilities, perhaps two or four per continent (for winter & summer
games, and two have two host countries), would likely be a good answer.

~~~
omegaham
In the US at least, this is offset by the fact that large metropolitan areas
have excellent D1 college facilities along with multi-use professional sports
stadiums. More importantly, those facilities are already being used and will
be used in the future.

As far as I can tell, the biggest hassle for American cities is traffic. All
of the facilities are there, but putting them into use all at once with tens
of thousands of foreign tourists would be an utter nightmare, especially with
American reliance on cars and lack of public transportation options.

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sethhochberg
Olympic bids often do help encourage public transit development in the US,
however - a great recent example here is the extension of the 7-line subway in
NYC, which was originally planned as part of the city's bid for the 2012
Olympics. After the city lost the bid, it was decided to go ahead and build
the line anyways as part of another redevelopment project.

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santialbo
I like to think that Barcelona is a good example of how Olympic Games should
impact a city. Growth was controlled and it allowed for regeneration of some
shady parts of the city. They didn't build crazy venues and the ones they did
build are still in use today 25 years later.

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eloycoto
I fully agree with this. Barcelona is one of the best examples as for how the
Olympic games can help.

London is a great example, but in London is easy to use the large venues.
Barcelona was more challenging and they made well.

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intoverflow2
> London is a great example

The area was regenerating itself just fine. As someone who lives in it long
before the games. The olympics did nothing for the area and it's now partly
going to be host to a cement factory, thanks Olympics.

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lhopki01
There are many articles about abandoned Olympic venues but I've never seen one
about successful former Olympic venues. I'd like to see what happened to all
the venues in London and Beijing. From my bit of knowledge a lot of the London
ones were temporary or have been successfully transitioned.

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StevePerkins
Atlanta has always felt snubbed by hostility from the IOC, who didn't like the
level of private corporate sponsorship used to fund the 1996 Games (nevermind
that two decades later, it would be considered modestly quaint today).

However, it was overwhelmingly a successful Games. It created a lasted
economic boom, and much of the construction saw continued use or was
repurposed afterward.

Today, Atlanta is not really remembered as a "bad" Olympics (because
international sports organizatinos like the IOC and FIFA have become more
disgustingly capitalistic than we ever were). We are likewise not really
remembered as an "success" story either, frankly because most cultural
commentary prefers not to think about southern American cities at all outside
the context of sweeping generalizations about racism (1). But quietly, it was
an example of a success story for the host city.

(1) _Yeah, between the '96 Games and this year's Super Bowl, Atlanta sports
fans are a pretty bitter crowd. Don't mind us!_

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SnacksOnAPlane
Damn straight.

The aquatic center is still in use at GA Tech. And Tech also got a lot of new
housing from the Olympic Village, and a nice new student center.

The Olympic Stadium turned into Turner Field, which will now be a stadium for
GA State University.

I believe the velodrome is still in use, although not totally sure about that.

Basically, Atlanta planned very well for the post-Olympic legacy. And I think
we threw a pretty good Olympics, all in all. Yeah, there was lots of
advertising, but because of it, the city didn't go into tremendous debt.

Plus our opening ceremonies were the world debut of wacky waving inflatable
arms guy, so that's gotta count for something.

~~~
libria
Not to mention Centennial Olympic park is a venue for concerts and events.

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echelon
Are you going to Shaky Knees? I'm always eager to meet other Atlanta-area
engineers, especially if they have similar music tastes.

~~~
libria
Apologies, I'm no longer in the Atlanta area. Maybe a local Meetup group
perhaps?

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Animats
There were articles like that before the Rio games.

The Beijing facilities, which were in a city that could use big sports
facilities, are now mostly abandoned.[1] The big "birds nest" stadium now has
an ice rink in it, but the huge grandstands are unused. London is doing OK
with their leftover facilities.[2] The ones that aren't near a large city,
such as Sochi, are abandoned.

[1] [http://www.reuters.com/news/picture/ghosts-of-olympics-
past?...](http://www.reuters.com/news/picture/ghosts-of-olympics-
past?articleId=USRTR30UOB) [2]
[https://www.theguardian.com/cities/davehillblog/2015/jul/23/...](https://www.theguardian.com/cities/davehillblog/2015/jul/23/london-
olympic-legacy-three-years-on-2012-games)

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grabcocque
This is an entirely unfair representation of the current state of Olympic
venues in London. The Olympic stadium is used by West Ham Football Club every
week for league and championship football. The Olympic village has been
converted into state of the art affordable housing set in a gorgeous new green
space.

The swimming and diving and velodrome facilities are state of the art,
oversubscribed, and at the forefront of creating a new generation of athletes.
I myself am having Kayaking lessons at the London White Water centre Olympic
course.

Of course other major Olympic venues predated the bid and have continued to be
in continuous use. Wimbledon, Wembley, the Excel, the O2, Eton Dorney...

London has not simply "abandoned" anything, and to pretend otherwise is
dishonest.

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timr
The photos, and most of the text, are about venues other than London. London
is called out as an example of good olympic development, not bad.

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marcosdumay
Rio is a bad place to look at. The place is broken for the same reason its
last 3 governors are on jail (and older ones have been there), not because it
hosted the Olympics last year.

I don't think the ROI was positive, but I also don't think that level of
abandonment will last.

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StavrosK
Hey, at least they're in jail.

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marcosdumay
Yep. I do personally have the opinion that the World Cup and Olympics were
worth much more than their cost just by the fact that they bankrupted every
kind of government here and pressed the people into revolting.

I estimate they were the hightest ROI project our government ever had when
considered that indirect gain.

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StavrosK
I'd agree with you, I wish lots of our corrupt officials went to jail, but I'm
afraid it's not happening...

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marcosdumay
Well, our most important of our corrupts are still free, and nobody is certain
if they are ever going into jail (what is already a huge improvement).

The good part is that it takes an entire mafia to run a country. I doubt its
heads alone are powerful enough.

~~~
personlurking
Well, it (Lava Jato) still hasn't reached the Judicial, plus Pezão is in hot
water and Lula possibly will make a 2018 return. With all the people taken out
of poverty in the early 2000s having returned to it, perhaps people will
somehow want Lula back....if not, it could be Bolsonaro following Temer. So
much going on.

~~~
marcosdumay
Yet, I don't think politicians will find many complicit business people to
overprice services and pass them the difference anymore. And anybody that
loses an election has a good chance of going to jail (except for Sarney it
seems). Does that mean politicians will fight tooth and nail? Next year will
be interesting. Also, don't forget rules for Legislative elections changed
last year.

The worst Judicial offenders are working hard into winning some irrelevance so
that nobody will care to mess with them. I can live with that kind of result.

And about Lula, I doubt he will be free by 2018 (he's being judged right now,
but it takes time), but I'm also wary of who will win the elections.

Overall, I'm optimist.

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mixmastamyk
I had hoped for more investment in sports in Brazil as a result of the games,
and indeed the transportation improvements in/out of Barra are incredible. But
unfortunately, the govt of Rio is now totally broke and on the brink of
failure.

To put it into perspective, in much of the country they have stopped paying
their police officers a salary. ((boggle)) Not the safest city in the first
place, and maintenance was never a strong suit of Brazil. So the stadiums are
just a symptom.

Did they move the futebol games to Engenhao or something? Why would Maracana
be abandoned? Where are they playing all the games that still need to be
played? It would make sense to rotate them to keep the stadiums used at least
part of the month.

I'm trying to think of a way to maintain them and provide sports activities
for kids. Normally, I dislike the branding of stadiums, but perhaps a
corporate sponsorship of each stadium is a solution, while the govt should
focus on its citizens.

~~~
personlurking
Brasília made their WC stadium into a bus parking lot, IIRC. Recife built
their WC stadium, the Arena Pernambuco, in a neighboring city, thinking it'd
be a good way to build inland and incentivize development, but I'm pretty sure
that has not happened. People would have to basically take the bus an hour or
more to get there, and with 500 assaults on Recife buses in 2017 alone, it's a
bit hard to do so.

A light certainly went out in Maracanã when they removed the "geral" (cheap
seats for the working class) in 2005, long before the WC or OG.

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emondi
Starts with a bad example. The maracaná is from the 1950 world cup, also used
last world cup.

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cbernini
Not exactly. It wasn't the same stadium at all. The original Maracanã received
something around 1.2 bi BRL (387.55 mi USD if we consider today's rate) in
order to receive the Olympic games. Sergio Cabral' (former RJ governor)
prision was motivated (among other things) because of that

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emondi
So is it not going to be used again?

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woliveirajr
Probably it will. Problem is the "owner" (Odebrecht and EBX, both companies
involved in many issues in the Lava-Jato investigation) don't have money to
fix it, nor are potential "clients" (soccer teams) willing to contribute to
fix it or to pay the amounts that are being charged to use it.

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sly010
As the article also mentions, London spent a lot of it's olympic preparations
thinking about what will happen to all the building and materials after the
games. I was in design school at the time and we all submitted proposals for
reusable architecture, etc. There was so much idealism, we all assumed things
will be turned into sculptures or street furniture and the olympic park will
itself will become an open site where people will hang out, etc. I wasn't in
London for the games, but planned to go back to see the park after. When I got
there a month after the Olympics, it was all abandoned, closed, fenced around
and all you could see is giant empty parking lots. If they did any recycling I
didn't see any of it.

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sandworm101
Glad to see Vancouver doesnt show in any of these articles. It can be done
well enough. Nobody seems to have any great complaints about those games
(2010). The facilities are still in regular use ... which one would expect of
a winter games in canada.

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schwap
The facilities from the '88 games (Calgary) are similarly still actively used
for training and by the public.

edit: '88 not '86

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cbowal
The Olympics were held in Calgary in 1988.

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schwap
Yep, absolutely correct (d'oh).

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roystonvassey
'Average overrun for Games since 1960 is 156% in real terms' [1]. On the
whole, costs of hosting Olympic Games is a net-negative for most cities.

I think it isn't as popular as it once was in attracting tourists; soccer
world cups are probably better for that. Given that this is the case, they
should just fix one host city/country and host the Olympics only there. It
will save unnecessary expenses, especially for developing nations such as
Brazil.

EDIT: Added source here

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_the_Olympic_Games](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_the_Olympic_Games)

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Joakal
Politicians talk of lasting legacy but a lot of studies pretty much showed
that no one wants to hang around once the Olympics is over. So, to recover the
cost, maybe they need to host a really long Olympics?

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erelde
Makes me think of the Roman's tradition of building wood theatres, but now
instead of wood and clearly saying "temporary" it's cement promising
"stability and prosperity".

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a3n
Any local government or ngo that proposes to its local citizens that it should
host an Olympics should immediately be investigated for corruption. (Tongue
barely in cheek.)

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ryderfast
Why not just have one venue, but have different hosts organise the opening
ceremony? Stick one large venue on an island somewhere, and then hand the
responsibility of running it to a different nation each time.

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65827
Really proud to be able to say I voted against hosting the olympics in
Colorado a lifetime ago, seems like we are always a bit ahead of the times.

~~~
joeframbach
The Colorado Springs Olympic Training Center is excellent, though!

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prodikl
Living in Seoul, I played hockey at the olympic stadium there. There are
regular baseball games and the entire area is very developed.

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praptak
Big sport events are a huge scam. The corrupt organizations that have the
rights keep money from ads, tickets and bribes, sometimes even requiring
changes to the local law to protect their revenue. The supposed benefit for
the host is that they can keep the infrastructure, paid by their own money.
How generous!

Fortunately the public opinion has generally recognized this fact and there
are protests against organizers. I for one, am proud that we told the fuckers
to GTFO of Kraków.

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mikeweiss
Maracana Stadium was not built for the Olympics, it was just used as a venue.
The stadium was built in 1950...

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lawless123
There is analogy here to be drawn with winning the lottery. Both look great
but lead to ruin if not managed properly.

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warcode
There really should be a rule that you have to maintain and operate the
olympic venues as a public serivce for at least 4 years after their completion
if you want to host.

~~~
funkymike
Wouldn't it be better to plan further ahead and make a requirement that the
venues need to be in use for X years prior to the games? This would ensure
that the facilities are usable outside of the Olympics.

