

Perl is not Dead, it is a Dead End - brunov
https://speakerdeck.com/stevan_little/perl-is-not-dead-it-is-a-dead-end

======
nmcfarl
This is worth reading, in spite of it's inflammatory title, as it's really
about a new project: moe ( <https://github.com/stevan/moe> ) an "ultra-modern
perl 5" written in Scala.

~~~
hoola
Some of the problems that the author mentions in Perl5 are actual problems in
Scala, for example the compiler and interpreter latency or start up time, the
complexity of the language, the philosophy TIMTOWTDI and the bigger one is
that other languages are getting better and better. Why just not to translate
the philosophy of Perl to Scala, that is write a book translating the most
common idioms of Perl to Scala. Good programmers could learn the Perl-Scala
way in days, the real thing to realize is that today there is no single
solution, you must master several programming languages, no one size fit for
all problems.

~~~
lazyjones
I mostly agree and believe that before another abomination loosely based on
Perl is written in Scala, people should learn Scala. However, Scala's syntax
is also quite complicated, Scala code is often hard to read (far too much
TIMTOWTDI there as well), so personally I favour Go as a modern alternative to
Perl.

------
fusiongyro
The author doesn't make the case all that strongly. Despite the quantity of
words there isn't a lot of content backing them up. Mostly "fun" quotes an in-
joke references I don't get, which he seems to bemoan early in the
presentation but lapses into about halfway through.

Perl 5 never struck me as something one would set out to acquire from scratch.
Perl 6 does, but there are fresher faces and I wouldn't predict it becoming a
major force anytime soon.

------
idm
great slides; I read the whole thing. This is a very interesting project, too.
I left perl around the time of Moose because I was desperate for a sane OO
system. I'd love to see this succeed.

------
cmccabe
If "Perl is a dead end" (his words, not mine), then why not switch to another
similar language like Python or Ruby?

I guess I don't understand why this guy wants to create yet another
programming language. He spends his entire slide deck complaining about how
bad Perl is, without ever discussing the obvious possibility of... just using
another language. Is there anything good about Perl 5 that other languages
haven't already copied? If there is, what is it? I am not trying to be
facetious here-- just curious.

~~~
draegtun
_> If "Perl is a dead end" (his words, not mine), then why not switch to
another similar language like Python or Ruby?_

Because a lot of the points given also apply to Python & Ruby.

 _> I guess I don't understand why this guy wants to create yet another
programming language._

He isn't. It looks like he's creating an improved / cleaned-up perl5 running
on a new VM. Think of it as perl6 if the perl6 moniker hadn't already been
taken!

EDIT - Hopefully clearer analogy... the project is a mixture of python2 ->
python3 (language cleanup) + MRI -> YARV (new compiler & VM).

 _> Is there anything good about Perl 5 that other languages haven't already
copied? If there is, what is it?_

The author of the talk (Stevan Little) is the creator of Moose
(<http://moose.perl.org>). I think what he maybe striving for is a Moose
implemented on a modern future proofed VM (full threading/multiprocessing,
etc).

The question you may want to ask is why? By sounds of this talk it appears
that his p5-mop proposal/work (<https://github.com/stevan/p5-mop>), which was
originally mooted for perl 5.16, as probably been _blocked_ by the Perl core
team (p5p). It's a shame if that is what's happened :(

~~~
cmccabe
_Because a lot of the points given also apply to Python & Ruby._

Like what, exactly? He even has a slide which says this about Node.js: "there
is no problem." If there is no problem, then what is he trying to solve by
creating a new language? I am confused.

 _The author of the talk (Stevan Little) is the creator of Moose
(<http://moose.perl.org>). I think what he maybe striving for is a Moose
implemented on a modern future proofed VM (full threading/multiprocessing,
etc)._

Moose is cool and all, but it basically just brings Perl up to the same level
of functionality that other languages like Python and Ruby have right out of
the box. Using the JVM seems like a particularly unfortunate choice since it
has such a long start-up time and traditionally Perl scripts were for quick
and dirty jobs.

~~~
draegtun
_> Like what, exactly?..._

Threading / Multicore processing. This is the 800 pound gorilla sitting in all
programming language camps.

 _> Moose is cool and all, but it basically just brings Perl up to the same
level of functionality that other languages like Python and Ruby_

Nope... Moose brings Perl up to the CLOS (Lisp) level of OO which is _beyond_
what you get with Python & Ruby.

