

YouTube's thoughts on Flash and the video tag - tensafefrogs
http://apiblog.youtube.com/2010/06/flash-and-html5-tag.html

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not_an_alien
Interesting that the people whose business model actually rely on video
distribution (Hulu, YouTube) have opinions that are the opposite of the common
user consensus in Redddit or Hacker News ("Flash is dying", "HTML5 is ready",
etc).

~~~
megaman821
Maybe HTML 5 isn't ready for YouTube or Hulu, but for people who just want to
post a video of their cat on their blog, it is a lot simpler to use the video
tag than a Flash solution.

~~~
TotlolRon
_for people who just want to post a video of their cat on their blog_

The simplest way is via a YouTube embed. So if it isn't ready for YouTube, it
isn't ready for the web.

~~~
danudey
There's a distinction to be made here though. The reason it's not ready for
YouTube is because HTML5 doesn't support things like content controls (e.g.
DRM). Most of the videos on YouTube don't have that.

It's disingenuous to say that HTML5 isn't ready for YouTube; it's far more
accurate to say that HTML5 isn't ready for _content providers_. I mean, I
can't blame them. HTML5 video in its current state would turn YouTube Rentals
into a free movie download service within minutes. Still, the core of what's
being uploaded to YouTube is perfectly satisfied by HTML5's current offerings.

Perhaps what would be needed in that case is some kind of encumbered meta-
format, one for which codecs could be installed on the local system that would
provide the 'content protection' that copyright holders want so badly, without
needing Flash as a bloated overlay. It wouldn't be much better than Flash, but
it would be a start.

~~~
asmosoinio
Are you saying all the points in the article, besides the DRM one, were
untrue?

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RyanMcGreal
>For YouTube Rentals, video owners require us to use secure streaming
technology, such as the Flash Platform's RTMPE protocol, to ensure their
videos are not redistributed. Without content protection, we would not be able
to offer videos like this.

[clicks link]

>This rental is currently unavailable in your country.

Geographically segregated, non-redistributable content: just what the web
needs!

~~~
gnubardt
Geographically separated content isn't unique to flash/rtmp, a user's ip
address can still be matched with a region when retrieving content over http.

~~~
vetinari
Nobody said it is unique to flash.

The original reasoning was, that without RTMPE they would be unable to provide
such content.

Well, at least for me, they are still unable provide such content, so from my
POV this argument could be removed from debate and nothing would change.

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WilliamLP
> Google, Mozilla, and Opera have all committed to support WebM, and we have
> already started making YouTube videos available in the WebM format. Adobe
> has also committed to support VP8, the video codec for WebM, in an upcoming
> Flash Player release.

If Apple isn't going to support it for iPhone and iPad, and you seek a common
video encoding, you might as well say straight out that it isn't viable.

The cover-all solution for video is exactly what YouTube uses right now -
Flash and H.264. There is absolutely no chance in the foreseeable future of
eliminating the H.264 piece, because of Apple. There is some chance of
eliminating the Flash piece, depending on IE9 becoming widespread and Firefox
either relaxing their stance on H.264 or becoming irrelevant some day.

These facts make people upset, but they are facts.

~~~
vetinari
You are overestimating the power of Apple.

If Youtube uses native webm, with flash fallback for browsers that do not
support webm and native application with low-resolution for iPhone (i.e.
status quo on iOS), where do you see the problem?

Apple will have to provide a very good reason why they are sole platform
vendor refusing to support webm in any way.

~~~
WilliamLP
> where do you see the problem?

1\. iOS isn't just iPhone, but includes one of the fastest selling devices in
tech history.

2\. low-res for the iPhone isn't going to cut it either anymore.

3\. Apple's customers are precisely the people who are most willing to pay for
products. Treating them as second class web citizens is the worst business
decision possible.

~~~
codingthewheel
Apple's has a minority share of the mobile device market. You are drastically
overestimating the importance of a vocal minority. iOS already doesn't support
Flash; won't support Flash; can't support Flash because that would threaten
the closed App Store. And the rest of the world has gotten along just fine.
Indeed, the only people Apple's refusal to support Flash hurts, are Apple
users.

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dchest
"Without content protection, we would not be able to offer videos like this."
Indeed... <http://i.imgur.com/NWJut.png>

Also, is it so difficult to not use PR-speak in a blog?

~~~
pavs
Which specifically PR-speak are you referring to? I thought it was very
direct.

~~~
mambodog
The word 'excited' in press releases needs to die.

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rtrunck
I particularly like this part:

"While WebKit has recently taken some steps forward on fullscreen support,
it's not yet sufficient for video usage (particularly the ability to continue
displaying content on top of the video)."

I.e., we need to put ads over the videos.

~~~
litewulf
Or annotations. Or the playback controls...

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danudey
One of the things I'm surprised by on my iPad is videos on the web that won't
play. By that I don't mean that most videos won't work because the iPad
doesn't have flash - quite the opposite. I'm surprised when a video won't play
_because it so rarely happens_.

Maybe I just browse all the wrong sites, but 90% of the video I come across on
the iPad works just fine without jumping through hoops. Some of that is
because YouTube videos are ubiquitous, but even going to a site like Penny
Arcade for the first time on my iPad got me video that worked well and looked
good.

HTML5 may not be ready for YouTube, but for sites that don't need (often-
draconian) content controls, HTML5 is here already.

~~~
radley
It's not surprising that someone on HackerNews won't be affected by the lack
of video options - this simply isn't a creative arts forum.

But for creatives like myself, Apple's restrictions are difficult to bear. My
own blog, vj.tv is difficult to view on my iDevices because half of the
embedded videos are unplayable (vimeo only offers HTML5 playback directly from
their site).

It's painful to have a hardware/OS/music company dictate the terms of how we
can access our stuff when clearly the "standard" is lacking. I and others
appreciate someone from YouTube coming forward and supporting our views and
needs.

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Fice
Following the link in the Content Protection section: "This video is not
available in your country." (I am in Russia) Feels like discrimination.

Also if the video is streamed to my computer, which I have full control of,
there is always a way to capture and redistribute it. That "content
protection" is cheating both publishers and viewers.

~~~
roc
> _"Feels like discrimination."_

It should, because that's exactly what it is.

Copyright agreements explicitly created the right to discriminate based on
locale, so that copyright holders can set prices for individual countries
based on local willingness and ability to pay to ensure maximum revenue at the
expense of consumer rights and product value.

Vote with your currency of choice.

------
Linear
>Concerns about patents and licensing have prevented some browsers from
supporting H.264; this in turn has prevented the HTML5 spec from requiring
support for a standard format.

I thought this was an odd statement since the original "standard format" was
not H.264 but Theora. It seems you could equally rephrase that as "Concerns
about profits and licensing have prevented some browsers from supporting
Theora".

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poundy
I was expecting YouTube's thoughts in a video!

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tfdu34
John Harding, Software Engineer,

He is more the Engineering Manager for APIs, Mobile, and other aspects of
Syndication at YouTube.

What's wrong with Google/Youtube using wrong titles in blog posts ? Do they
tried to make us believe that even the low software engineer in the chain can
publish under the Company's name ? Lame.

~~~
tensafefrogs
Not sure why it matters so much to you, but for the record, most managers in
google are also software engineers. John's earned that title, let him use it.

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sdurkin
Changing the policy of a large corporation is like turning a tanker ship at
sea. To avoid upsetting the balance, one has to go verrrry slowly.

This was a load and clear signal that Youtube knows full well that the time of
HTML5 is coming soon.

~~~
not_an_alien
Or maybe a loud and clear signal for people to stop assuming they're doing it
just because of their beta HTML player.

