

Ask HN: How to Organize? - rthomas6

Most people seem to go through a life phase from around ages 9 to 15 where they learn how to organize and arrange their environment, how to clean up, etc. I am 27 and never went through this phase. Every day I look around my massively cluttered apartment and feel like I&#x27;m missing some essential skill that others learned earlier in life. I know this is really basic stuff, but what do I do?<p>Specifically:<p>* How do I efficiently clean up an area and <i>keep it clean while still using it</i>?<p>* How do I put away a large number of miscellaneous items in a manner that I know where they are and can easily be found again?<p>* How do I put away bowls and food storage containers such that they don&#x27;t avalanche on me when I open the cabinet?<p>* How do I organize important documents such that I never lose them and can retrieve them after several years?<p>* About how much time should I expect to be devoted to house chores each day&#x2F;week?<p>* What chores should I do on a regular basis, and how often? (How often should I dust? Vacuum? Clean toilets?)
======
andymurd
I have had to teach my SO exactly these habits. This is what worked for us:

Pick one small area to start with. We chose the kitchen because it is used
several times per day so keeping it clean pays the biggest dividend.

Think about how your storage should be organised. Most frequently used items
in the most accessible cupboards. How should people move through the space?
Where are the bottlenecks/sharp corners? This is a UX problem.

Throw away all the useless, broken stuff and the stuff that you haven't used
in a year. Be ruthless.

Clean your area properly for the first time - every surface, every item. Use
powerful cleaning products NOT hippy, earth-friendly coloured water. Wear
rubber gloves. Break into a sweat. This first clean is hard work.

Next time you do anything in your area, ensure that it is clean before you
start. Throw away rubbish, wipe up dirt, wash up, dry, put away. This should
not take long.

Clean up whilst using your area. Clean up after using your area. You are not a
teenager, pick up after yourself.

Schedule a time for cleaning. I find Wednesday evenings good because
work/TV/social-life is usually empty on Wednesday evenings. It is possible to
clean a (tidy) two bedroom apartment top-to-bottom in two hours, but don't
expect to be this efficient when you start. Two-three hours once or twice per
week is plenty unless you have pets/kids/coalminers living with you.

Take the time to notice that using your area is massively more efficient when
it is tidy and give yourself a mental pat on the back. When you mess up (we
all do), the motivation to get back to the tidy state should be there. You are
now a grown-up.

------
ASquare
A good framework, for overall organization and cleaning, to co-opt, is the 5S
methodology used in Lean Six Sigma Manufacturing environments

[https://goleansixsigma.com/5s-infographic/](https://goleansixsigma.com/5s-infographic/)

[https://goleansixsigma.com/how-to-easily-apply-5s-to-your-
wo...](https://goleansixsigma.com/how-to-easily-apply-5s-to-your-work-
station/)

Its actually quite easy to understand and implement.

------
davismwfl
I can't recommend it enough, hire a professional organizer to setup your house
work area etc and then have them teach you the hacks to make it stick and be
efficient. It does cost a little bit of money of course, but it is SO worth
it.

My wife isn't necessarily a professional organizer but has done it for people
and a few companies. She is one of those super organized people (and creative
about it) and she kicked my ass about my bad habits. She still calls me the
stacker from time to time, because I used to keep stacking shit on my desk for
months and then go through it to organize it. What sucked is like half the
pile would be trash by that point and I missed dates for things etc. She
thought it was ironic because a number of my clients have given me compliments
and sent me emails that say I am so organized and my code and project
deliverables are so clean and well thought out. They just never saw my desk
before.

She changed the workflow for me and has basically made me WAY better. When I
get stressed out I will tend to stack still sometimes, which tells me it isn't
yet 100% ingrained but I am working on it. But I know it has mostly worked
because now the irony is that I get stressed if I see stacks or things aren't
in their place, so its good.

The biggest habit to change is don't say I will get to it, just do it now.
That was (can still be at times) one of my biggest issues.

On the household things, my wife uses the daily & weekly routine. About an
hour everyday spread out throughout the day is dedicated to doing little tasks
so they don't stack up. Like wiping down the sinks in the bathroom after we
are done in the morning, it takes 3-4 minutes but then they don't get dirty
and require extra time to clean. She also planned out our cleaning schedule.
So like my 16 year old does his laundry on Wednesdays, she does my daughters
laundry on Thursdays, and ours on Friday. Sheets and towels are left for
Saturday. She does that with everything so that no day does any one of us
spend more than about an hour throughout the day doing any of the tasks. At
first I thought it would suck but after a while it has turned into the
greatest stress relief and efficient plan for us.

------
rudimental
Consider a professional that helps people get organized. A house cleaner can
help you with some of these, like how often to dust or vacuum. A professional
organizer (that you work well with) could help you with more of them, like
creating systems that help keep track of documents or organizing your food
containers. Check out highly rated people on yelp or get a referral from a
friend or national professional organization.

------
nyrulez
Life Pro tip: For some of these, hire a house cleaner and ask him/her about
these questions (might have to pay extra for that). You can write down the
steps they do and tell you to do, and try to repeat them. You will have a live
demo to guide you as well.

------
zuzuleinen
For me it worked this principle: "Leave everything in the same condition as it
was before using it".

That's it.

You can make an initial order, and after that order will stay if you commit to
this basic principle.

------
pain
Build pattern recognition.

Map your self and items, memory test your script as you try to place things,
find your settings and preferences for variables important.

I find if you make a point of what you do, your organization to find a system
can teach you things about your memory.

------
andrewrice
I'm in the same boat as you! I never developed strong organizational habits
and would appreciate some guidance.

~~~
papa
Hey Andrew, same offer I gave rthomas6 stands for you. If you want some one-
on-one guidance, let me know. papandrew (at yahoo.com). This is a topic near
and dear to my heart.

------
papa
This stuff is pretty near and dear to my heart since I'm a clean
freak/organizing nut. My wife thinks I have OCD.

This might be basic, but I'll give you my answers:

1) This may not be a satisfying answer, but the key for me is that my home is
neat and tidy to begin with. When some activity takes place, I might deploy
stuff to that area but as soon as the activity is done, I clean things up and
put them away. If I'm cooking, I might bring things out and continuously clean
up the kitchen as I go. The main point is that keeping an area organized and
clean throughout the process is part of the key.

2) So for this problem, my solution is two-fold: (1) Find a place for
everything in your home and organize stuff thematically so it's easy to find.
Think of your home like a library with a Dewey Decimal system for all your
household stuff. Hall closet? Maybe that's a good spot for cleaning supplies,
sponges, brooms and the like. I have 3 kids, so one of my closets is all
school supplies, art supplies, pens, crayons, binders, etc etc. The key thing
here is to group like stuff together. This will make it easier for you to FIND
stuff in the future. Also, in order for this to work, you must constantly put
things away after you are finished using it. If you don't do this, you'll fail
with your organizing (b/c you can't find stuff easily). (2) Attack the supply
side of the problem and eliminate unnecessary stuff. This is a big task and a
tough one for a lot of folks. I could go into more detail on this one, but
unless you are willing to purge some crap, effectively organizing stuff will
be challenging.

3) Are your plates and containers a hodge-podge of individual pieces not from
a common set? If so, this is your problem. If you purchase plates and
containers from a single set/design, you should be able to effectively stack
your bowls and plates. Ditto on the containers. If you buy from the same
product line, they often come in sets of nestable pieces or stackable pieces.
Get rid of the one-off odd bowls and get a uniform set (e.g. 6 bowls of the
same make).

4) Physical documents: file cabinet with hanging folders and/or manila
folders. Each folder is a different topic/category: Automotive, Home
Electronics, Bank Info, Home/Property documents, Travel documents/passport. I
probably have 2-3 dozen folder "topics". I get a document that needs to be
saved, I immediately file it in the cabinet. Taxes are always a breeze. As
soon as I finish my taxes for the prior tax year in April, I create a new tax
folder for the current year. Any docs with tax implications (letters from
charities for donations, receipts) goes straight into my tax folder. I do the
same for digital documents. Just carve out a little spot on your hard drive.
Create work and personal life folders. Route the files that you need to save
accordingly. Do this diligently and you won't be confronted with the
insurmountable deluge of documents. You can also solve the supply side of the
equation by periodically reviewing both your physical and digital documents
and purging stuff you no longer need. As with my response to #2, if you file
things properly, FINDING STUFF when you need it in the future is always a
breeze.

5) Depends on your personality and how much mess you can tolerate, but I
typically spend 15-30 minutes in the morning organizing my household before I
go to work and maybe the same at night. Mind you, I have 3 kids and a wife
with a busy schedule, so in order to manage the chaos, I need to organize
things twice a day. This may be overkill for a single guy (assuming that's
your status). The key thing is that by investing a small amount of time here
and there you can keep your organizational system humming. As long as things
are put away, things are easy to find. Once you let things slip, it gets
tough. As a side note, this is usually when I listen to podcasts (so the time
isn't completely wasted on humdrum cleanup).

6) Again this is personal preference and dependent on how much of a mess you
make. Beauty of this is that you can outsource these tasks! After my 1st kid
was born, that's just what I did. Now I have a house cleaning crew that visits
my home every other week and cleans the bathrooms, kitchen, vacuums and mops
the floors. You might be able to get by with once a month. 2x a month is
better. Personally I'd like once a week but I don't want to pay more than I
already pay at 2x/month.

I don't know if these responses are helpful. Happy to chat more about it if
you want more pointers. I've been contemplating an Ebook on this topic, so
would be interested in hearing more about your problems in this vein. If you
want to continue the conversation, let me know: papandrew (at yahoo.com)

------
metanoia
Here are my opinions on how to do this - these ideas may not work for you and
part of the journey will be figuring out what works for you.

* How do I efficiently clean up an area and keep it clean while still using it?

\- First, start with recycling/selling/donating/throwing things that you don't
need. A good heuristic for things you don't need are "If I haven't used this
for X months, I should get rid of it." X will depend on a few things, but
choose X such that it is somewhat uncomfortable. You may regret a few of your
decisions, but that's OK. Of course, your level of nostalgia may work against
you. If there are things that you must keep for sentimental reasons (pictures,
things of value) set these into another pile.

\- You'll now find that you have significantly less stuff, and less mental
overhead. You also will (hopefully) have more space. You __must __now find a
home for everything. Which leads me to the second question...

* How do I put away a large number of miscellaneous items in a manner that I know where they are and can easily be found again?

\- Group items together in logical categories - I have bins filled with
cables, computer stuff, home improvement stuff, clothing, snowboarding stuff.
For smaller things, find divided containers like a clear fishing tackle box.

\- Clear bins that are shallow are best so you don't have to root around to
find something, simply turn the container a few times to find what you're
looking for. Put them under your bed.

\- For things that are more frequently used, put them in your desk or kitchen
drawers. Definitely use drawer organizers.

* How do I put away bowls and food storage containers such that they don't avalanche on me when I open the cabinet?

\- Stack them. If your food storage containers are heterogeneous and don't
stack well, invest in some.

* How do I organize important documents such that I never lose them and can retrieve them after several years?

\- For the most important paper documents (marriage certificates, vehicle
titles, social security cards, bearer bonds, passports, etc) get a fireproof
filebox, or if not paranoid about fire or theft, a filebox. Again, group
things logically in hanging file folders, if you can't come up with a system
just create a file for each item. This box should not have a lot of contents.

\- Go paperless as much as possible. Paystubs, bank statements, etc. should
all be paperless. It is not hard to recreate these if needed unless you work
for someone who writes paper checks.

\- Get a document scanner like the NeatDesk and scan/OCR everything else
(offer letters, receipts, non-marketing material) to Dropbox or Evernote.
Boom. Most things are searchable. There are few documents that can't be
destroyed at this point. Again, this should not be a lot of stuff.

\- Opt out of all pre-screened offers for credit cards. Go to
www.optoutprescreen.com. This should cut your junk mail in half. Recycle the
rest immediately.

* About how much time should I expect to be devoted to house chores each day/week? * What chores should I do on a regular basis, and how often? (How often should I dust? Vacuum? Clean toilets?)

\- One thing I have noticed in my life is something I call the "seed of
disorder." Once an area is clean, and something is left out of place in that
area... entropy develops around that seed. Do everything you can to ensure
that any seeds are dealt with as soon as possible. Papers, dirty dishes, etc.
They all get out of control if you let them.

\- If you do that, you won't have to do more than taking out the trash, doing
and _putting away_ dishes, and cleaning your food prep areas on a daily basis.
If you're in SF and don't have a dishwasher figure 15 minutes a day to do
those things.

\- For the rest, it depends on your level of personal cleanliness (and those
that come visit you!). Ideally, hire someone to come every two weeks.
Bathrooms, floors, dusting, etc. are not fun. Plus, when you have someone come
clean you have to "pick up" and make sure everything is in its place to begin
with. If you can't afford a cleaner to come about twice a month here's a good
frequency:

\- Vacuum carpets: At least once every couple weeks. Get a roomba, it can do
it every day if needed.

\- Toilet: I'm assuming you're a guy. Wipe the rim off once a day. Put cleaner
in and brush once every two weeks, more often if you forget to flush.

\- Bathroom floor: Once every two weeks with a wet swiffer.

\- Dust: Once every two weeks unless you have allergies. More frequently if
you do, but use a respirator/N95 mask. Buy a very good true HEPA air filter -
this will reduce your dusting needs as well. Use a swiffer to dust wood
floors, and a swiffer hand duster to dust objects.

\- Change bedsheets: Again, if you have allergies, more frequently, but at a
minimum once a month.

\- Clean kitchen: Sweep the floors every two or three days, stuff tends to get
on the floor often. I have a roomba robot do this for me. Wet swiffer the
floor weekly. Move everything off each surface and wipe it down at least twice
a month.

\- Refrigerator: Check the refrigerator for bad food at least a couple times a
week. Don't let it get funky - you'll want to deal with it even less. Once
every three months or so get everything out of the fridge and wash down every
surface.

------
seekingcharlie
Something I have realised over time is that mess inherently attracts mess. If
there are dirty dishes in the sink, clothes on the floor etc, you are
significantly more likely to add to said mess (often it's unconscious).

With the above in mind, take a look at everything you own, every single item
in your apartment. Do you really need all of them? Don't fool yourself by
holding on to random crap thinking it will be of use one day - it won't.
Either throw it out or give what you can to Salvation Army. Less is more.

> How do I efficiently clean up an area and keep it clean while still using
> it?

When cooking dinner, for example, I have the sink filled with hot water &
detergent & I go back & forth between cooking & washing what is finished with.
As you're waiting for something to boil, do some dishes etc.

TIPS:

.Rinse all dishes in VERY hot water & they dry very quickly by themselves, so
you can simply put them away after you've eaten.

If you've just fried/cooked something on the stove, scrub the pan immediately
after you drain the food out (while the pan is still hot) with detergent.
Don't give any food/oil a chance to solidify - it will take you 4 times a long
to clean if you leave it until tomorrow.

In certain situations, it's better to leave a pot/pan to soak overnight (e.g.
after cooking rice).

> How do I put away a large number of miscellaneous items in a manner that I
> know where they are and can easily be found again?

Create themes of storage areas for the items that go in them. Garage for
tools, cleaning supplies. Study for stationary, printing ink etc. Basically,
keep things that are related to each other in the same place.

> How do I put away bowls and food storage containers such that they don't
> avalanche on me when I open the cabinet?

How many food storage containers do you have? How many do you need? You know
the deal..

> How do I organize important documents such that I never lose them and can
> retrieve them after several years?

Take screenshots with your phone - archive everything in folders via email
(bills, tax, receipts etc) so that you can always refer back to it.

> About how much time should I expect to be devoted to house chores each
> day/week?

Hard to say without knowing exactly how messy you are. In a general sense,
dinner dishes & hanging clothes in your room are a daily chore. Do a big
vacuum/sweep, mop & clean toilets on Sunday morning each week with some fun
music on. Do a big bathroom clean (bleach, glass cleaner etc) once a month.

Perhaps create a schedule/calendar for yourself to hold yourself accountable.
Start thinking about Saturday or Sunday as "chores day". And when you've done
your chores, make sure to reward yourself in the afternoon/evening to
reinforce the habit.

