
History Will Not Be Kind to Jony Ive - hellofunk
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ywyjmw/history-will-not-be-kind-to-jony-ive
======
Traster
This article is trash. It's basically saying "But Ive's focus on slim design
and minimalism meant sacrifices had to be made in terms of repairability".

Well guess what, that's a design decision and we live in a free market - so if
you don't like it you're welcome to buy a different laptop or phone. The fact
that these design decisions have been integral to making Apple one of the most
valuable companies in the world _probably_ indicates they were good design
decisions.

If you really think what the world needs is airpods with a replaceable
battery, go build one.

~~~
biddlesby
> Well guess what, that's a design decision and we live in a free market - so
> if you don't like it you're welcome to buy a different laptop or phone.

This shifts blame off suppliers and on to consumers. Suppliers can do whatever
they want: it's the responsibility of consumers to choose what is best for
society.

In my opinion this is not an effective approach for society, for example
because of unbalanced information. I think the responsibility needs to be
shared.

> The fact that these design decisions have been integral to making Apple one
> of the most valuable companies in the world probably indicates they were
> good design decisions.

I don't think the author is disputing that the designs were good decisions,
when the goal is profit. They are complaining that sustainability was not
taking into account.

~~~
wincy
This isn’t how markets work. Suppliers can’t just “do whatever they want”. If
there’s no demand for a project you’ll very quickly go out of business that
way. It is up to the consumers, and people chose iPhones over chunky android
phones with hot swappable batteries and the like.

You can’t really be a “sustainable” company (or anything, really) when you’re
out of business.

~~~
ljw1001
people chose iphones when they were far superior to everything else and have
been (largely) locked-in by switching costs ever since.

------
tibbon
What I will agree with here is that we have made devices so thin and fragile
that you instantly have to wrap them in thick cases to protect them. Or carry
around a pound of adapters to shave off a few grams in having more than one
port.

The optimization toward light and thin has gone a little overboard. These
aren’t just art pieces, but tools. Make my laptop 10% heavier but give me a
machine that can take a beating

~~~
britch
I think there's a disconnect between what makes someone buy a device, and what
makes a quality device.

In the abstract I think a lot of people would say they'd take a heavier phone
that's more durable and has a longer battery life.

Unfortunately most phones are sold on "tech-lust." The sleekness and thin-ness
of the device. How futuristic it is. People will pay a lot of money for a
luxury device that feels "right."

I'm not sure how we resolve the conflict. For a sellers perspective you kind
of have to chase the art-piece, especially when people choose it over the
practical tool again and again. But I think most people would be happier if
the design was more tool-like.

------
stupidcar
Was the integrated circuit a mistake because it isn't repairable? The
historical arc of technological development is unmistakably towards smaller,
more complex, more integrated systems that are impossible to access and repair
without highly specialised equipment. Does anybody really believe that
technology 100 years from now will be anything other than nano-tech meta-
materials, the functioning of which is totally opaque to anybody without a
tunnelling microscope and an in-depth understanding of quantum physics?
History will judge Ive no more harshly than one person caught in an
irresistible wave.

~~~
theaeolist
The integrated circuit was not unrepairable on purpose. The amount of plastic
packaging per transistor in an integrated circuit is much much smaller than
for individual transistors. The point is that the Apple devices are not
repairable on purpose. The half-a-millimeter-thinner argument is a laughable
pretext.

------
patagonia
I think what most comments critical of this article are missing is the
“History” portion of the title. Sure. At the moment it isn’t ridiculous to
create headphones that must be broken and thus trashed to replace the battery.
But, when climate change is (very soon) bearing down on us with its full
force, we will revisit these decisions. At that point, with that perspective,
I have to believe that history will indeed not be kind to these decisions.

~~~
unreal37
Yes, we can praise Ive today for being a pioneer. But in 20 years, he'll
perhaps be looked at in a different light.

------
drtillberg
Repairability is really important for sustainable, maintainable systems.
Beauty without reparability-- in hindsight it will be like those illuminated
manuscripts from the middle ages that were created with poisons like arsenic
and stored in sealed containers[1]. It's beautiful, but most definitely not as
functional or impressive as it otherwise might be.

[1] [https://www.livescience.com/63025-poisonous-books-coated-
in-...](https://www.livescience.com/63025-poisonous-books-coated-in-
arsenic.html)

------
m0llusk
It turns out that disassembly and maintenance are features that cost quite a
bit of money all along the chain from design to component sourcing to assembly
and even delivery. Most consumers want rock bottom prices and would rather
just by a new widget with more better features. None of this touches on what
Jon Ive did in terms of making the machines themselves and their interfaces as
appealing and accessible as possible within the constraints of hardware and
software production.

One of the big potential advantages to the current situation is that some
company could design and market computers that are repairable and also hire
Jon Ive to enhance their beauty and interfaces.

~~~
Synaesthesia
The original iMac G5 was easy to dissemble. There are three screws which lift
off the entire back and everything is exposed. Replacing a HDD was a cinch.

In the subsequent models they made it far more difficult without really
changing the outward design. You had to remove the screen, it was a lot harder
and more technical. It was a decision to make macs and other devices non
repairable.

------
nemo44x
This would have been something of an original thought if it were written, say,
last week. But it's clearly an article trolling the actual news. A blogger
decided to write something edgy after a few minutes of thought. The pathetic
thing is this blogger probably believes it is insightful, original, and
intelligent.

And just what's with the concern for how the future looks upon this time in
history? It seems like so many arguments are based on the premise that for one
reason or another, humans of the future will judge the humans of today in a
negative way. Why would I care? Even if I did, I'd assume that at some point
in the future literally nobody will be thinking or judging of humans of today.
We aren't that special. Get over yourselves.

------
Spooky23
I have always despised how publications latch on to anything Apple like a pit
bull. Especially when you’re borderline insulting of a person instead of a
critic of the work.

End of the day, he’s one of a select few household names in the space. His
work helped make Apple one of the biggest Andy most influential companies on
earth. Nobody will remember the keyboards — his legacy is just fine.

------
johnhenry
What about "History Will Not Be Kind to Apple"?

Ultimately, ALL of these apparent flaws were approved by the Apple and Ive
isn't even a company officer. Further, the average consumer has no idea who
Jony Ive is. Apple created the iPhone, not Ive.

~~~
FabHK
> Ive isn't even a company officer.

I can't say it better than Wikipedia:

> On 26 May 2015, the firm announced that Ive was promoted to chief design
> officer (CDO), at the time one of only three C-level executives at Apple
> along with CEO Tim Cook and CFO Luca Maestri (Jeff Williams would be
> promoted to COO at the end of 2015).

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jony_Ive](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jony_Ive)

~~~
johnhenry
I've been thoroughly schooled.

------
pixelbath
It seems like the author has a definite axe to grind here. I can't recall a
single story about Apple's product design that lays the blame for
unrepairability at Ive's feet, yet here's this article that implies nobody
else was involved in the design of Apple's products.

I'm not much a fan of Apple's chosen method of doing business, and can
honestly say I've only liked a few of the product designs that Ive has created
over the years, but I think history will be kind to him; his designs helped
create the juggernaut Apple is today, and he's leaving at a bit of a high
point in his career.

------
sidcool
What a clickbait article. Love or hate Jony's designs, millions have used and
loved the products. There have been issues wrt repairability, but it's nothing
as dramatic as the article claims.

~~~
theaeolist
Love or hate big tobacco, millions have used and loved cigarettes. What an
argument!

"It's nothing as dramatic". Really? Millions of unrepairable wireless earbuds
heading to the landfill every year is not dramatic?

~~~
sidcool
There has to be a strawman like word for this argument. Last I checked, Jony's
products didn't cause Cancer or kill anyone. At worst, all they did was annoy
someone.

Your argument would have held credence without that argument.

~~~
FabHK
GP is not implying that Apple products are like cancer. He is trying to show
that GGP's argument was invalid, by applying to a different case where it
obviously doesn't hold.

A: "X is not bad, because millions have used and loved it."

B: "That doesn't follow. Millions have used and loved Y, and Y is clearly bad,
so A's argument doesn't hold."

C: "B claims that X is like Y, but Y causes cancer, and X doesn't, so B's
argument is invalid."

D (me): "No, B doesn't claim that X is like Y, so C's argument is not sound,
and B's is valid and sound, and A's is invalid."

Or so.

------
jjuel
I tend to think the opposite. When you think of design you think of Apple
(which in turn means Jony Ive). Whether or not they cause some functional
issues doesn't matter. The market has spoken and they love the sleek design
that this man has come up with. If it weren't true people wouldn't be all out
copying the designs of Apple. I think history will look favorably on him, and
pretty much forget the functional issues (whether real or just perceived) his
designs caused.

~~~
FabHK
I can't speak for "the market", but personally I like the seamless integration
(of UNIXy base & consistent GUI, of hardware & software, across different
devices). Not the super-sleek design.

Like many users, I'd prefer if the devices were a bit thicker, but had more
battery life and were more easily repairable (and, for the MBP, had a keyboard
that would just work).

~~~
BuckRogers
They could do all of that, fix the keyboard, put in a 100WHr battery, and
componetize the parts (SSD/RAM, CPU, motherboard) without changing much from
the current look and feel. I imagine it would be a hybrid between the 2015 and
2016 Macs.

------
DLA
Written by a “journalist” about whom history will not even footnote.

“Ive, Apple's Chief Design Officer, is leaving the company. He leaves a legacy
that made its products hard to repair and impossible to upgrade.”

And leaves a trail of epic industrial design, user experience, and
manufacturing genius.

Does one repair/upgrade a pacemaker? A fine watch? A modern heavily
computerized, sensor-filled car? Smart TV? A digital camera?

Article is a pile of poor logic and lack of appreciation of design. Hard pass.

~~~
mkhattab
Yes, one usually does and can repair all those things. Except for the
pacemaker, which I’m not sure.

------
gigatexal
Yeah I disagree with the article. Ive will be sought after for years. Imagine
having his name attached to the next Samsung phone. His singular designs
helped propel Apple to where they are on just the back of the iPhone which at
one point made up north of 60% of Apple’s revenue. History will put him in the
same boat as Jobs.

------
NietTim
And history will not be kind to media outlets that consistently put out trash
like this, aiding in the ever growing distrust in the media _gigantic eye
roll_

