
Ask HN: What careers outside technology as I get older? - hguhghuff
I’m wondering if maybe I should leave the technology industry and do something else.<p>Older people I think find it harder to keep a dependable career and I’m not sure I want to continue in technology anyway.<p>But what else to do? I can’t imagine anything else that might be an effective way to make a living.<p>Any ideas?
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eaandkw
Depending on what stage you are in life you could be a lot like me. I'm slowly
but surely losing faith in a lot of things that I took for granted. I'm a
computer security enthusiast and it really is depressing sometimes the
direction things are going. So...I have deleted most of my online accounts and
starting to work on being more independent. I lost my internet connection for
two weekends in a row and it was a little surprising how much it effected how
I live at home. Yes I could used my cell phone for the essentials like email
but for everything else everything I had set up was useless. I would recommend
trying to get a physical hobby where you could create something physical. It
could be carpentry, blacksmithing, hunting/ fishing, etc. The point would be
to get away from tech industry for short periods of time. I think the reason a
lot of older people find it harder to keep a dependable career is because
their values start to change. When you are young you are willing to burn the
candle at both ends to build a career and get established. When you are older
you sometimes don't want to spend your entire waking day working to keep up
with the Jones' or maintaining your career.

~~~
chelmzy
Can I ask what you're losing faith in? I've just joined the infosec workforce
but it's been a hobby of mine for awhile(22 y/o). I've already become jaded
and bitter at this industry. I just see the industry being pillaged by
profiteers at a detriment to the health of the industry.

~~~
eaandkw
To quote a tweet from Brian Krebs, "Being in infosec for so long takes its
toll. I've come to the conclusion that if you give a data point to a company,
they will eventually sell it, leak it, lose it or get hacked and relieved of
it. There really don't seem to be any exceptions, and it gets depressing." [1]

Sometimes I feel like to only way to win is to not play the game. I believe
that is another quote from the movie Wargames.

[1]
[https://twitter.com/briankrebs/status/1045091640480804864](https://twitter.com/briankrebs/status/1045091640480804864)

~~~
elliekelly
Or perhaps we can change the rules of the game? It's noteworthy that he
doesn't consider the possibility that a company delete/destroy the data.

As it stands now, its a no-brainer for companies to save as much information
as they can about a person because there's almost no down side. The risk of a
data breach to the individual(s) far exceeds the risk of a breach to the
corporation. The incentives are massively misaligned. I'm cautiously
optimistic that GDPR (with all of it's many flaws) could mark the beginning of
slow a transition from corporate data hoarding to minimalism. You heard it
here first: Corporate KonMari Consultant will be the trendy Gen Z career.

~~~
eaandkw
I doubt that Brian Krebs hasn't considered that. He works in information
security and I would assume he is not on any corporate boards.

I would however agree that even though I am not normally in favor a
regulations this would be a good place to have something similar to the GDPR.
There should be a balance between data being an asset vs. a liability. Right
now it is only viewed as an asset so there isn't enough emphasis on security.

~~~
elliekelly
Apologies for the confusion. I simply meant that particular quote hadn't
contemplated destruction. And with good reason, there's virtually no incentive
for businesses to destroy data they collect. I'm certain he has given quite a
lot of thought to data destruction as it relates to data security. I was
trying to point out that it was conspicuously absent in his tweet.

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scarface74
The whole ageism thing is overblown.

I’m in my mid 40s and I have a circle of six friends who are still developers
and hands on architects. The youngest is 40 and the oldest is in his late 50s.
The oldest one is our former manager who hired all of us and self demoted to a
developer after his kids graduated.

All of us are able to change jobs like we change shoes depending on how picky
we are being.

We don’t live in SV or on the west coast. We live in a major metropolitan
area. We all aggressively keep our skills up and are careful to not get left
behind the current trends:

\- all of us (except for me) are using the latest cool kids front end
frameworks.

\- we are all developing on top of either AWS or Azure and are actually using
the technologies they provide and not just hosting a bunch of VMs.

\- we can all do Devops in a pinch.

\- all of us are using the latest .Net Core features or Node and most of us
are using Docker.

\- We are all using a combination of SQL and NoSQL databases.

Etc.

We all have corporate jobs and won’t go near any of the cool kids work 80
hours a week at below market wages with the promise of equity startups. We
have grown people bills to pay and want to get home to our families.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
>The whole ageism thing is overblown.

Or maybe you were just one of the lucky few.

~~~
scarface74
How is it luck? I didn’t become aggressive about changing jobs and my careeer
until I was in my mid 30s. I’ve changed jobs a few times since then.

~~~
mixmastamyk
It's not necessarily luck, you've built a network in an area with opportunity,
either on purpose or by accident. That works for both young _and_ old.

The problem is when you have to go in cold and pass a google-style interview
just to get considered for any job, even at a greeting card company. The now
ubiquitous position where "we only hire the top 1%."

With that much competition, being old puts you at a definite disadvantage.
Especially when tech interviews focus on CS trivia rather than engineering
design and experience, to the benefit of those fresh out of college.

Not every place is a startup of course, but the cargo-culting of interview
"best practices" has spread far and wide as stodgy companies yearn to look
cool.

~~~
scarface74
Even after graduating from college over 20 years ago. I purposefully took a
job as a computer operator in a larger city where I still live that was way
below my skillset and the amount I could have made at in a smaller city closer
to home as a junior Dev for the opportunity.

Over a decade later, when I really started taking my career seriously again, I
made the same calculation. I had two choices, I could accept an offer that was
paying more but using a technology that I didn’t see having a future or taking
a job paying only little bit more but was clearly a better long term play
technologically. I’m aggressive about keeping up and having a competitive
resume.

I respond to _every_ local recruiting company that reaches out to me. I keep
them in the loop, I’ve met a few recruiters for lunch and I refer my favorite
ones when I know someone is looking. I’ve also done hiring through recruiters.

 _The problem is when you have to go in cold and pass a google-style interview
just to get considered for any job, even at a greeting card company. The now
ubiquitous position where "we only hire the top 1%." With that much
competition, being old puts you at a definite disadvantage. Especially when
tech interviews focus on CS trivia rather than engineering design and
experience, benefiting those fresh out of college._

I am still hands on. But, I had to elevate myself above being seen as “just a
Developer”. I’ve been asked simple technical questions to determine whether I
had basic competence, but all of my interviews over the past few years have
been along the lines of “draw out an architecture” or “describe how you would
solve these $hairy_problems we are having. I have never been asked a leetCode
type question. The closest I’ve gotten was writing a merge sort on the board -
I did, got an offer but I was so turned off by the entire process that I took
another job instead.

~~~
mixmastamyk
Yes, you made some decisions that turned out to be good, twenty years ago. A
lot of folks didn't. Personally I've got a mixed bag.

~~~
scarface74
Trust me. I haven’t made a lot of bad decisions. But I made a few big ones
between around 2002-2008 that I paid for for years.

Namely staying at one company too long, not keeping up with changes in
technology, not building soft skills and having no network.

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rofo1
It helps if you have a hobby you can make a use of / that you are good at.

For example, carpentry, metalworking and electronics (and low-voltage
electrician) are some things that interest me in my free time, and it looks
like you can make a living off of them, at least in my country.

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PascLeRasc
Have you considered technical work in academia? The culture's much more
friendly to older people and you might prefer the type of work if you're a bit
jaded by industry.

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JSeymourATL
> But what else to do?

At the intersection of career and life purpose-- good interview here with
Simon Sinek on Finding Your Why...

> [https://www.jordanharbinger.com/simon-sinek-whats-your-
> why-a...](https://www.jordanharbinger.com/simon-sinek-whats-your-why-and-
> where-do-you-find-it/)

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sarabande
What are your interests? What do you mean by "effective" way to make a living?

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DrNuke
Local economy always needs personal assistants, salesmen, customer service and
carers.

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brudgers
Artist.

~~~
yesenadam
To make a living?!

~~~
brudgers
Did you mean "to make a life?"

~~~
yesenadam
I don't know what you're trying to say. I meant what I said. The OP was asking
for ways to make a living. (disclosure: artist/musician, distinctly _not_
making a living from that)

~~~
brudgers
The difference between what you wrote and what you wrote plus "right now"
glommed on the end is the optimization function.

~~~
yesenadam
Again, I find it very hard to understand what you say. You write like you're
making notes for yourself, but to communicate with other people, please be
more explicit. Say what you mean. Both times, I've had to guess, because you
didn't say. Only this time, I have no idea. (Or at least, it seems I don't
have the knowledge you assumed I have.)

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winwares
I recommend you to start your own business consulting firm as Consulting is a
significant and growing business.

~~~
scarface74
“Starting your own business” is not always the right answer. I agree with
consulting but working for a consulting company. There is a lot to be said
about being able to go to work everyday, do your job, and go home and not have
to worry about chasing after clients, payments, etc. I like the idea of going
to work every day, coming home and guaranteed money showing up in my account
for the same amount twice a month.

The usual retort is you can be laid off from a job. That’s true. But if you
keep your skills current and marketable, have a network of local recruiters,
and live in a major metropolitan area anywhere in the US, finding a job in IT
is not exactly hard in 2018.

