

Cost of living adjusted, NYC poorest city in America? - cwan
http://www.city-journal.org/2009/eon0806em.html

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jsackmann
For all sorts of reasons, multipliers like the CoL adjustment in this article
don't work for New York. (And really, they don't work in general.) To be
"equally well off," there are a lot more factors than living in an equally-
sized apartment with an identical car ... after all, living in a place that
doesn't suck counts for something. As does not needing that car. Or having an
immense amount of stuff to do (much of which is free or close) that keeps you
out of that apartment.

On a personal level as a NYC resident, I live in a nice apartment in a nice
(though not ritzy) neighborhood for $600/month, my transportation costs are
$100/month and everything else is just about the same as it would be
elsewhere. Every time I think about moving somewhere else, I have a hard time
figuring out how I could come close to my current level of expenses without
sacrificing quality of life.

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warfangle
Absolutely. While apartments are smaller and more expensive per square foot in
NYC, the city itself calls you out. You spend time in a park; at a sidewalk
cafe; on a friend's (or your own) roof-deck. I guestimate that I spend 50%
more time outdoors living here in the city than I did living in a suburb down
in NC. I also spend a lot less in transportation costs, and go to a lot more
concerts.

While, according to this guy's statistics, NYC is the poorest.. well, that's
not taking into account the culture, the convenience, and so forth.

(I'm in a share with a couple friends; My monthly bills - including rent
[utilities included], phone, and transportation - are about $900. If you
consider that a job that would pay $30k elsewhere will pay $40 or $50k here,
and that if you're smart you can live on the cheap - you'll be able to retire
a lot sooner if you plan on retiring out of the city, because the money that
doesn't go far here goes very far elsewhere..)

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jeremymims
I think costs in New York can be crazy if you live a certain kind of
lifestyle. But I think we're just used to living with less of certain things
(mostly due to our space restrictions) that don't necessarily translate well
across other cities (We rented a whole house in Cambridge when we were there
for YC last summer for about what you'd spend on an apartment 1/3 the size in
New York).

There are certain things that augment the high cost of living though: * We
don't drive cars and most of us take mass transit most of the time. * We buy
fewer possessions (no place to put them). A side benefit is that when you do
buy something, you tend to buy better quality. * When we do buy something, it
usually involves recycling or selling what we had before. * We don't see our
living space as our own private paradise. We don't tend to duplicate resources
the public already has. We have parks instead of lawns. We'll use taxis and
zipcar when we need them instead of owning cars. * We tend to live very close
to where we work and could walk there if necessary. * Restaurants face a large
amount of competition. You can get excellent food with excellent ambiance for
less money than I was used to paying for a comparable experience elsewhere. *
Lots of free or nearly free experiences. Art, museums, concerts, performances,
groups, and lectures.

The way I feel about (or rationalize) New York City is that I get to live in a
place that offers so much more for only a slight premium on what I'd pay to
live in San Francisco.

The big down side is that you miss out on the tech community in SF, although
others argue that this can be a net positive.

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spolsky
CoLA figures for New York are B.S. They're all based on buying an identical
basket of goods. New Yorkers don't buy the same goods. 54% of New Yorkers
don't have cars, because we have good mass transit. New Yorkers live in
smaller apartments and don't have gardens, because we usually opt for
walkability and nearby culture and entertainment instead of square footage. If
you want the square footage instead of the walkability, you move to the
suburbs of New York... problem solved.

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krschultz
54%? I don't know anyone here who owns a car!

It is damn expensive to rent, but once you subtract out car payments, car
insurance, car maintenance, and gas you can save $1000 a month easily that
goes towards rent.

Getting around NYC costs $89 a month.

~~~
spolsky
Don't forget that includes queens, staten island, etc, where people actually
have a car or two.

$1000/month in car payments = $2000/month in pretax salary. That means a
$60,000 salary in NY goes as far as an $84,000 salary - car costs.

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lutorm
I just read "The Corner", about life on the drug dealing corners in West
Baltimore. (It was the basis for the show "The Wire".) When they quote a cost
of living for "Baltimore", do they average over all parts, even the ones where
no one wants to live unless you really are using all your cash for drugs and
can't afford the hundred bucks a month it would cost you extra to live one
block away from the drug dealers?? Because that average would seem to indicate
an unfairly low cost of living then...

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DannoHung
How have they accounted for purchasing residences in New York? Which, unlike
almost everywhere else, has not seen a precipitous decline in property value?

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muckster
quality of life != standard of living

