
Trump directs establishment of U.S. force to dominate space - Bhilai
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-space-moon-trump/trump-directs-establishment-of-u-s-force-to-dominate-space-idUSKBN1JE28D
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_kst_
Does the President's authority as Commander in Chief extend to creating a new
branch of the armed forces? The US Air Force was created by an act of Congress
(the National Security Act of 1947), not by a Presidential order.

~~~
mieseratte
Sort-of, the National Security Act of 1947 created the Department of the Air
Force[0]. I've seen previous articles stating that the "Space Force" would
become a sixth branch, but it would fall under the purview of the Department
of the Air Force. This is similar to the Navy / Marine Corps arrangement
wherein the USMC is an independent branch, but under Department of the Navy.

[0] -
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Air_Force#Histor...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Air_Force#History)

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learc83
Here is a recent quote from by the Secretary Defense on the topic.

"I believe it is premature to add additional organization and administrative
tail to the department at a time I am trying to reduce overhead."

~~~
drak0n1c
This directive moves the existing space responsibilities of the USAF (GPS,
etc) into its own department so it does not obscure the department's budget
and compete with other USAF priorities. You could just as easily interpret the
reorg as a clarification of military budgeting and slimming down of the Air
Force's appetite.

When there's a nebulous and expensive operation (USAF space operations employs
nearly 2x the people that NASA does) it's better for it to exist independently
with its own responsibilities than to grow under the cover of an even larger
traditional entity.

~~~
learc83
Why not split off the Air Force Global Strike Command (long range nuclear
bomber and ICBMs), or the Army Corps of Engineers, or the Navy's submarine
operations?

The answer is that what defines "a nebulous and expensive operation" is
incredibly vague and if we start splitting all large military operations into
their own branches we'd just end up with even more administrative overhead and
the designation of separate services would lose distinction.

The big difference here is that Space Force sounds cool.

~~~
lainga
ICBMS, the Corps of Engineers, and submarines have well-defined roles in the
American military. Spacecraft, as of yet, do not. If you want surveillance, we
have the NRO.

~~~
learc83
We already have the Air Force Space Command, which is the mission that The
Space Force is going to take over. I'd say what they'll be doing is about a
well defined as any other forces role.

We don't know what a major war in orbit will look like, but we don't know what
a major war against modern naval powers would look like either.

~~~
lainga
The great-grandparent was providing a justification for splitting space
operations off of AFSC, as its mission is "vague and nebulous" and manages to
eat up money and personnel in an opaque manner.

You countered that other areas of the military could also be "vague and
nebulous" and could be split off as well.

I put forth that the other areas you mentioned have well-defined purposes, but
spacecraft do not.

First: now you have mentioned that we already have the AFSC. Doesn't this seem
a bit circular to you?

Second, AFSC already operates satellites, including the GPS constellation. If
the Space Command inherits ownership of those satellites it will indeed be
"operating spacecraft" without any real or described grandiosity.

~~~
learc83
>now you have mentioned that we already have the AFSC. Doesn't this seem a bit
circular to you?

I said it's hard to define what nebulous and expensive means. I don't think
AFSC's mission isn't anymore nebulous and expensive than a whole host of other
commands.

>operating spacecraft

Operating spacecraft is indeed a grandiose term for maintaining satellites.

~~~
lainga
Alright, how about the X-37B?

~~~
learc83
So they are operating _a_ spacecraft. We don't know what it does but the most
plausible explanation I've seen is that it's just a sensor test bed.

~~~
lainga
You've gone from claiming that operating spacecraft doesn't fit what the Space
Force would do (in your grandparent comment, before you edited it) to claiming
that it's not relevant because they're only operating one spacecraft. I'm
fairly certain you're not arguing in good faith, especially given the heavy
editing of the grandparent comment after I replied to you.

~~~
learc83
I edited that before I saw that you responded. I said that operating military
spacecraft is a grandiose description of what their mission is. It makes it
sound like they have a fleet of spaceships fighting other enemy spaceships.

I never said it doesn't fit what they would do. I said it's not what they
would do. I also never said operating one spacecraft wasn't relevant.

I said that operating spacecraft is a grandiose and downright pretentious way
to describe the mission of an agency with one remote controlled, scaled down
space shuttle, testbed laboratory and some GPS satellites. And it is.

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jcadam
The USAF didn't manage to kill the idea this time, eh?

I remember this (or something similar) being proposed a few times over the
last couple of decades.

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52-6F-62
It started under Reagan didn't it?

"Let's just put some lasers up there"

~~~
Diederich
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Defense_Initiative](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Defense_Initiative)

Lasers, and a lot of other things as well.

~~~
asdsa5325
Which is actually still around, they are just known as the Missile Defense
Agency now.

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josefresco
_The Air Force requested a top-line budget of $120.4 billion_

Air Force spends a lot of money on "space".

 _The budget supports the goal of maintaining assured access to space and
viability in contested and increasingly congested environments by continuing
the block buys of the Advanced Extremely High Frequency System satellite
vehicles 5 and 6 and Space Based Infrared System 5 and 6; and funding five
Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle launch services, three of which are
competitive launch opportunities._

[http://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/652961/af-
pre...](http://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/652961/af-presents-
fiscal-year-2017-budget/)

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medell
More detail here (but not much more):
[https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/18/president-trump-directs-
pent...](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/18/president-trump-directs-pentagon-
defense-department-to-immediately-being-the-process-of-establishing-space-
force-as-sixth-military-branch.html)

~~~
drak0n1c
Also out of the meeting, AP reports a directive to reduce satellite clutter:
[https://phys.org/news/2018-06-white-house-aims-satellite-
clu...](https://phys.org/news/2018-06-white-house-aims-satellite-clutter.html)

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rahulmehta95
Wouldn't this be a direct violation of the Outer Space Treaty?

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Rebelgecko
No. This would move parts of the military that already do space stuff
(primarily Air Force) into their own branch. The OST doesn't ban all military
things in space (GPS constellation for example, is totally legal). The OST
does ban nuclear weapons and 'boots on the ground' when it comes to certain
extraterrestrial environs. But again, despite the name this isn't a Space
Marine type organization that is being proposed. Just a reorg of existing
capabilities.

~~~
andrewtbham
Yeh. Seems like Air Force is already Space Force.

I have always been curious what boeing X37 does?

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-37](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-37)

~~~
ojosilva
Given its size and operating specs I'd say it's a space drone designed for
superiority in the orbital range. It enables the Air Force to attack and
defend at very high altitudes against otherwise unreachable targets and
threats. Or, at least now, since it doesn't appear to carry or need any
weapons systems, it can tow satellites out of orbit (for security reasons,
American or foreign) or run very specific rescue missions.

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tabtab
"I'm gonna build the biggest Dyson Wall to keep those loser space aliens out!
Believe me, space aliens are bad hombres; they poop out of their mouths and
eat our cars at 3am. Those smelly green runts ate my golf cart in the _middle_
of my game! Most come from total sh&thole planets, unbelievable!
#MakeEarthGreatAgain!

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methodover
There’s nothing in Trumps exec. order about a space force[1]. It’s not clear
if Trump was speaking extemporaneously about something they aren’t ready to
pull the trigger on or what.

1\.
[https://twitter.com/AaronMehta/status/1008786783436451840](https://twitter.com/AaronMehta/status/1008786783436451840)

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ourmandave
This is adopting the Jedi "I Have The High Ground" doctrine as seen in that
space documentary.

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krapp
The entire space race was essentially that, mixed with propaganda and a wee
dash of actual science.

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noetic_techy
Good. The Air force consistently drops the ball on space. Its needed a
separate branch for a long time. Who cares if its Trump pushing it.

Divorce your politics from reality:

[https://medium.com/war-is-boring/america-needs-a-u-s-
space-c...](https://medium.com/war-is-boring/america-needs-a-u-s-space-corps-
ab79bebe93eb)

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feefie
Setting aside the constant drama surrounding Trump, to me this seems to have a
significant positive potential.

See reference [1] below to see how many people are currently in space. I would
definitely not call that a "force". A more permanent presence in space for
more people would necessitate a lot more scientific research that will likely
have non-military benefits (like GPS research did in the past). There is so
much for us to learn which is good for humanity and inspiring for young
people.

The excitement around space might make it easier to get additional funding
approved. According to this [2] the Army, Navy, and Air Force budgets for 2016
weren't too far off from each other. It will be interesting to see at what
level the funding will fall for this "separate but equal" department.

According to this [3] the President has announced job one is to declutter
space to avoid collisions and spacecraft breakups, which all spacefaring
countries will benefit from.

As much as I admire Elon Musk, it would be nice to have a government presence
in space for rescue missions, etc. For anyone that has played too many hours
of Civilization IV, you might enjoy Baba Yetu performed by the United States
Navy Band [4]. The rescue force I would envision would be like the small clip
at 2m00s to 2m20s in that youtube video, except in space.

Lots of people talk about things like 'basic income' to protect us when
machines watch what we do and then take over our jobs. I would prefer to push
that day out a little bit by instead allocating money to us doing totally
brand new things, like this in space, that excites me and makes me want to
spring out of bed in the morning!

[1]
[https://www.howmanypeopleareinspacerightnow.com/](https://www.howmanypeopleareinspacerightnow.com/)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States#Total_budget_by_department)

[3] [http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/trump-space-
force-1.471101...](http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/trump-space-
force-1.4711012)

[4]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKWQQQjAEBU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKWQQQjAEBU)

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wyoh
Can't wait for him to call it "Stargate Command".

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stephengillie
Is there room under NORAD for their operations base?

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moomin
Maybe we should work on getting civilians in space first...

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anigbrowl
My guess is that this is a power play - create a new sub-agency of the DoD,
move some projects from existing agencies (railguns and DEWs from the Navy
perhaps), classify everything, and throw together some patriotically-themed
video brochures for Congressional committees.

~~~
tsomctl
It's a distraction from the fact that Michael Cohen might cooperate with
Mueller, Paul Manafort is currently in prison, and it just became public that
Roger Stone had another meeting with the Russians.

