

Germany and Tesla’s PowerWall - iamjdg
http://www.catalyticengineering.com/the-berlin-powerwall/

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sunstone
Just an observation that this analysis doesn't include the powerwall's benefit
of also providing backup power when the grid is down. It's hard to know how
much this would be worth and certainly would vary from home to home.

On the other hand, since Tesla is also selling a battery specifically for grid
backup I would assume that they've done some market research into it and this
value might be higher than one would think.

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semi-extrinsic
> When the grid is down

Historically in Germany (and most of western and northern Europe AFAIK) a
blackout is something that happens every ten years and lasts for two hours.
It's rare and inconsequential enough that no-one bothers hedging against them.

Wind and solar are increasing the probability of large blackouts, but the
proper solution to that is building more nuclear power, eventually
transitioning to fusion.

~~~
toomuchtodo
> Wind and solar are increasing the probability of large blackouts, but the
> proper solution to that is building more nuclear power, eventually
> transitioning to fusion.

Can we stop betting on pipe dreams? Fusion isn't proven, and while I'll
advocate for continuing research into it, solar, wind, and geothermal is here
_today_.

We should be advocating for the installation of solar on every roof, on every
brownfield that can't be used for housing or agriculture, wind where ever
possible, and geothermal where it makes sense.

It is _silly_ that we continue this nonsense that nuclear (fission today and
fusion tomorrow) are our saviors. We have proven, as a species, incapable of
properly managing the small risks that nuclear presents.

It takes 10-20 years and over $1 billion US to bring a new nuclear plant
online, and this does not take into account the government limiting their
liability in the event of an accident. Wind turbine parks and solar fields can
be developed in under a year, with fewer (if any!) cost overruns.

~~~
jotm
No reason we can't do both.

Fusion is the ultimate energy generation technology. It _will_ be real soon
enough.

Your comment reminded me of Interstellar :-)

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netcan
A few points:

1 - Assuming that the power-wall acquisition costs are already "sunk," I
wonder if it could ever make financial sense anywhere to do "power arbitrage."
IE buy electricity at cheap off-peak rates and sell it back at peak times.

2 - The existence of those kludgy sell-to-the-grid solar setups is a gift for
Tesla. There are so many of them installed and they're pretty much just
waiting for a powerwall to come along.

3 - I hope those setups don't crowd out other applications. The obvious one is
necessarily off grid installations. There are a lot of off grid setups in the
world. They mostly run on generators that smell, make noise and get turned off
at night (melting all your ice-cream). Remote homes, hotels, mobile homes,
boats... lots. Yachts alone...

This really is a bottleneck product.

~~~
toomuchtodo
I'm looking at a powerwall specifically for powering a sailboat, with solar
providing the bulk of my power needs with the remainder provided by a diesel
generator while underway.

EDIT: After a quick shower, I wanted to come back to expound on this a bit.

I've also wanted to lead a bit more of an independent life on a sailboat,
traveling within my home. As an engineer at heart, I've always thought about
how to best manage energy to have the top quality of life on a boat with
minimal sacrifice. Solar is almost always the way to go, as the sun is usually
shining where ever you're at (some folks do go with a wind turbine, but
they're unreliable at sailboat scales).

Tesla's PowerWall product enables this. No longer do I have to consider
running a generator full time, or having a dangerous amount of lead acid
batteries onboard to store enough power to meet my first world standard of
living. The more energy I can safely store, the longer I can be aware from a
port, not run a generator, or in short, spend money. The less money I spend,
the less I have to work a job I don't enjoy or want to (disclaimer: I love
technology, I'll always work in it, I just want to be able to always be picky
about the jobs I take)

Dense, cheap energy storage enables everyone to better manage their energy
use, and energy is what (mostly) drives the world now. Thanks Tesla!

~~~
semi-extrinsic
I have good news and bad news.

Bad news: the battery chemistry used in the Tesla PowerWall (Li-ion NCA or
NMC) is not safe for marine applications. Only Lithium-iron-phosphate
batteries, with lower energy density, are safe for this purpose. Putting a
PowerWall on your boat would not only void your insurance, it would carry a
real risk of setting your boat on fire.

Good news: there are already several manufacturers that sell lithium battery
packs that have been safety tested and approved for marine use. GIYF.

~~~
toomuchtodo
I had spoken to my prospective insurance company, and they had assured me a
lithium ion chemistry was acceptable for onboard use, even if I choose to use
it as part of the power train in a series hybrid setup (this is going in a
multi-hull catamaran). I'll have to call them back and get something in
writing. Thanks!

~~~
semi-extrinsic
No problem. Remember when the entire Boeing 787 fleet was grounded due to li-
ion fires - you really really don't want that in your boat. If possible, buy
something that's been certified for marine use by an independent safety
auditor like Bureau Veritas or similar.

