
You couldn't pay me to work for Ballmer - sant0sk1
http://37signals.com/svn/posts/2380-you-couldnt-pay-me-to-work-for-ballmer
======
edw519
_I wish Microsoft had their evil genius back._

Not me.

I've had 3 career phases: BMS, DMS, AMS, Before Microsoft, During Microsoft,
and After Microsoft.

I remember how cool things were back in the good old PHP/VAX/Microdata/CPM
days before Windows fucked everything up. Then I suffered with every
enterprise who had adopted all things Microsoft. Now that people feel we
actually have choices again, I don't ever want to look back. Any wonder I feel
like a kid again?

~~~
culled
Just curious but could you fill me in on what PHP stands for? I've tried
googling it but I'm, of course, getting the other PHP.

~~~
sfphotoarts
I think what was intended was PDP. (see DEC history on wikipedia)

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thesethings
The OP is both right and wrong.

Ballmer may not be the best visionary, product person, or have a good nose for
the market.

But I really don't think MS could do anything to compete with the Internet
era, and its results would likely be extremely similar with Gates in charge.

Also... let's not be revisionist. Gates was there long enough into the
Internet era for us to know what he thought/how he responded. His attitude and
approach was quite similar, and in some ways worse.

He was much less complicit to web standards on both the client and server
sides.

These days, MS's intranet products retain this approach (Sharepoint), but its
Internet ones are really good citizens and saying all the right things (Azure,
PHP friendliness. Silverlight is old-school, but still less borg-y than stuff
released in Gates-era). It's only that we have absolutely no reason to use the
MS web-stack, and (rightfully)have trust issues that explains their lack of
popularity.

So yeah... Ballmer is a dork. But MS's gradual demise is a natural effect of
the Innovator's Dilemma and the Internet.

~~~
kenjackson
And I think a lot of people misunderstand the Innovator's Dilemma, even
Clayton to some extent. I've heard people say things like, "We should eat our
lunch before someone else does". The problem is that starting lunch too early
can result in you losing your core business too quickly.

For example, if MS is making $15B a year in client products right now. And
over time, against Google and such, that number will drop $1B/year until it
hits $3B. Or they could accelerate that drop, such that it drops $3B per year,
but they can generate $1B dollars per year by eating their lunch.

While it may be "fashionable" to be the cutting edge company generate $1B/year
on some cool technology. It's actually prudent to fight against the new
technology as the incumbent for as long as you can. And try to find totally
new markets, rather than eating your own lunch.

~~~
lincolnq
What does eating lunch mean in this context?

~~~
SoftwareMaven
Undercutting your own existing, successful business with a new business better
prepared to go into the future.

Specifically, think about Office. MS could have released a web-version of
these at a price-point that competed with other web office stacks. Doing so
would have put them in position to succeed in the Internet world, but it would
have gutted their Office profits in the process.

Given their cost structures are set up around those profits, no sane business
person will make that decision. Hense, the dilema: you can see you are going
to die to companies who change the rules, you know what you would need to do
solve that, but the economics of doing that would mean anybody who really
tried would be out on their ear.

------
antidaily
I don't think you could pay DHH to work for anyone but DHH.

------
latch
I found the questions the most telling.

Questions to Jobs were firstly about Apple and secondly about Google; with
questions about Microsoft almost always having a historical "back in the day"
feel about it.

Questions to Ballmer were largely about Apple and Google.

Apple and Google are just far more relevant. What are you gonna do? Ask
Ballmer about Kin and Xbox?

~~~
SkyMarshal
Kin?

( /tongue-in-cheek )

~~~
daniel-cussen
Kin?

(just don't know what a Kin is and looked it up)

------
Rickasaurus
My favorite quote: "I wish Microsoft had their evil genius back."

Bill Gates is an amazing man in so many ways. He may have had an evil edge in
business, but that ruthlessness is what brought him success. It would have
been neglectful to his shareholders to act in any other way.

Now he works full time spending his fortune on making the world a better
place. Truly a great man.

~~~
jkndrkn
> Now he works full time spending his fortune on making the world a better
> place. Truly a great man.

Remember, he amassed his fortune through monopolistic practices that valued
control and subjugation of competition over product innovation and creation of
value.

Is it possible to both be a notable philanthropist and also not engage in
business practices that perhaps run counter to the generous philosophy of
philanthropism?

~~~
Kilimanjaro
Exactly, like Capone killing half of chicago to amass his fortune, then giving
it away to aww-so-poor orphan kids (the same kids he killed their parents) to
clean his face from blood stains?

~~~
megaman821
Yes, because bundling a web browser with an OS is exactly like killing people.

~~~
waivej
Just curious, how different is IE in Windows versus Safari on OSX? (or iPhone)

~~~
awa
Coz OSX doesn't run >90% of world's computer. Else it would have been same

------
philk
From watching that I got the feeling that you could ask Ballmer about his
thoughts on (for instance) the steel refining industry and receive a
remarkably similar stream of business pseudo-speak.

~~~
bradhe
>stream of business pseudo-speak.

My thoughts exactly -- and spending time at MS, that is the MS lingo, at all
levels. I think the janitorial staff only speaks in business pseudo-speak.

------
alexandros
Given the introduction, I expected to see Ballmer saying something outright
idiotic. I didn't see it. He merely said that whether it's a tablet or a
laptop or a desktop, it's still a personal computer. Fair point. Perhaps he
used the word productivity to mean creative activities? Maybe someone could
take issue with that? Sure, go ahead. I wouldn't work for Ballmer either, but
this video is not why.

~~~
bradgessler
This reminds me of the interview with Ballmer about the iPhone
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcUicfqelC8>

"Right now we [Microsoft] are selling millions and millions and millions of
phones per year, Apple is selling 0 phones per year. In 6 months they [Apple]
will have, by far, the most expensive phone in the market place."

~~~
Tichy
I am still not sure he is incorrect in that. Maybe the time frame is wrong
(when did he say it?), but still.

------
pcestrada
I think part of the problem is that Ballmer doesn't have a deep technical
background. And unlike Jobs, he doesn't have a world class sense of design to
point him in the right direction.

~~~
threepointone
possibly also that he doesn't seem to consider MS as a consumer company,
pandering more to enterprises and OEMs.

And he seems to dismiss his competition with hyperbole.

...it's a wonder he's the CEO, really.

------
dpapathanasiou
Without even reading the article, I thought, " _Ballmer probably feels the
same way about hiring you_ ".

------
douglasputnam
For someone who espouses grand principles (Rework), David is taking the low
road with his petulant ad hominum attacks. Calling Ballmer's stage presence
uncool is a little disingenuous when it's clear that Ballmer was just being
himself and trying to get his lethargic team pumped up. Before casting too
many more stones, David should reread his mentor Kathy Sierra's post about how
unhappy people drag down the level of discourse.

------
chasingsparks
I typically like what DHH has to say. Consequently, I expected him to actually
produce good comparative graphs. He did not.

AAPL is '98-now() and MSFT is '89-now(). If he wanted to compare MSFT to AAPL,
put them on a single comparative chart.

If he wanted to compare Gates to Balmer, use NASD-100 to factor out (very
roughly) the environmental differences.

------
shoover
Never mind the fact that the author didn't select the video of Jobs waving his
hands about why their phones don't work, or that in this video he was well
spoken but still didn't answer the questions as asked. What is the point of
this?

------
S_A_P
you could pay me to work for Microsoft, or Apple, or whomever(within reason)if
the price was right...

Sure Steve Ballmer doesnt seem to be all that successful as MS' CEO. They are
still very profitable, make _some_ great products and have some really smart
people there. I would argue its probably middle managers and bureaucracy that
is the bulk of their problem. I suppose a more charismatic leader would
probably try to fix that though.

------
houseabsolute
You could pay me to work for Ballmer.

------
blizkreeg
Regardless of whether you want him back or not, the truth remains that Gates
was, and is, a visionary.

Would I prefer seeing him back at MS or in his current role? Without a
question, I would like to see him use his fortune to address bigger and more
pressing problems like poverty, disease, and malnutrition.

I have no qualms about his 'evil genius' side - he ran a business, a wildly
successful one at that, and I think you can fairly attribute the widespread
use of PCs to Microsoft (I'm a Mac). But the world could make better use of a
visionary, compassionate, and generous (isn't that ironic how his current role
contrasts with his past business image?) person like him.

------
czhiddy
The 10-year charts for MSFT and AAPL are pretty astonishing when plotted
linearly, not logarithmically :

[http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&...](http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=Linear&chdeh=1&chfdeh=0&chdet=1275681600000&chddm=997050&chls=IntervalBasedLine&cmpto=NASDAQ:AAPL&cmptdms=0&q=NASDAQ:MSFT&ntsp=0)

~~~
Keyframe
even more so when plotted from 1987:
[http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&...](http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=Linear&chdeh=1&chfdeh=0&chdet=1275681600000&chddm=2447660&chls=IntervalBasedLine&cmpto=NASDAQ:AAPL&cmptdms=0&q=NASDAQ:MSFT&ntsp=0)

~~~
raganwald
Yes, but we're comparing executives, not companies. Jobs returned to Apple in
1996. Ballmer became CEO of Microsoft in 2000. It's relevant to compare the
stock performance under their tenure.

~~~
Keyframe
Yeah, I was just responding to a post. What you say must be put in context
though. Sure, without Jobs there would be no modern Apple - it's a fact, let
alone current growth. However, considering microsoft during and after late
90's you must take into account there was this thing called dot-com bubble.
Take a look at Cisco for example, during the same period (late 90's)
[http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&...](http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=Linear&chdeh=0&chfdeh=0&chdet=1275675960000&chddm=1977104&chddi=86400&chls=IntervalBasedLine&q=NASDAQ:CSCO&ntsp=0)

I think they were the first company in history worth a trillion dollars if I
remember correctly.

edit: or it was a talk about it being the first big T company, can't remember
correctly, it was a crazy time with madness like DOW 36,000 and fantasies like
that.

------
Tichy
I don't know much about Ballmer, but I think the comparison of the interviews
was not quite fair. They were completely different types of questions. Ballmer
got a bla bla question and answered in the same vein. Jobs got a specific
question that had been posed just shortly before all over the news, so there
was plenty of time to think about it.

------
volomike
Do you guys feel what I'm feeling? I'm feeling a general lack of mindshare on
new development and new technology coming out of Microsoft. Linux, Mac, and
Droid is where it's at -- where developers are flocking because of the cheaper
costs, better direction without getting screwed over, stronger security, wider
community base, and more innovation. It's coming to a point where you see more
non-Microsoft platform developers than Microsoft platform developers. And
Windows is popup and virus city.

------
dabeeeenster
Is it just me, or does Ballmer appear to be on medication/drugs? He seems to
be slurring, with lazy eyes.

Seriously. Is this just me noticing that?

~~~
thesethings
Your comment just spurred me to watch the video.

I noticed something, too.

[Edit. I previously ID'd a specific condition. While I stick by my
observation, and would comfortably say the same thing in a hallway
conversation, it's probably not cool to say it in a public forum. I'm in no
way important or a shareholder in any company involved in this discussion. But
a commenter below got me thinking. HN is a widely-read, influential place. I
don't want my passing observation to be responsible for anybody's pain.]

~~~
imajes
Hey, just a quick tip- it's probably best not to suggest specific diseases or
suggest such a thing about notable figures (especially those whose health has
an effect on their share prices).

It's better also if you can spell their names properly; "multiple sclerosis",
a disease of the nervous system, isn't specifically describable as a
neurological issue, however does cause many.

It's also just as likely that he was tired after having to travel and then
appear on stage to talk about his competitors.

~~~
huherto
"(especially those whose health has an effect on their share prices)." if
Ballmer were sick, would MSFT price go up or down?

------
petercooper
It's cute to see someone's intelligence being insulted in a syntactically ill-
formed sentence.

------
sahaj
Now compare both the Steves to Mark:
[http://video.allthingsd.com/video/d8-video-under-mark-
zucker...](http://video.allthingsd.com/video/d8-video-under-mark-zuckerberg-
hoodie/F403BCCE-661B-451B-8BC8-12536D12A82A)

------
SandB0x
Pay you on top of what you be paid for your paid job?

