
Female programmer denied job because of her 'unprofessional' attire - theandrewbailey
http://www.dailydot.com/lifestyle/programmer-denied-job-clubbing/
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dudul
"If I had been a man would it have mattered what I was wearing?"

Pretty obviously yes. One may think it's stupid but this company has a dress
code and wants its employees to look put together period.

Also, based on her post I would say the company was pretty good at reading her
personality. I have rarely seen someone who is yet to graduate but already has
such deep feeling of entitlement. I guess her parents have told her her whole
life how special and amazing she was, and she could do anything without
trying. Welcome to the real world.

~~~
scott_s
If the other programmers indeed do wear tshirts and jeans, as she reported,
then I don't think it's accurate to say that the company has a dress code. Her
attire is appropriate for a tshirt and jeans culture.

~~~
bunderbunder
Perhaps. Playing devil's advocate, though: I've worked plenty of places where
some individuals can get away with t-shirt and jeans but the overall business
tends toward business casual, and there is still an expectation that you get
dressed up for a job interview.

Personally I think that's entirely acceptable. It's not a double standard,
it's simply a policy that acknowledges that there are different social
contexts. A job interview might fall into a different context from your day-
to-day experience. Another case in point: My colleagues and I curse quite a
bit at work, but that doesn't mean any of us would consider it appropriate to
curse at a job interview.

Not saying this is exactly how it played out in reality, and there's always
the question of unequal enforcement of equal standards.

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runamok
I always dress for an interview one step above the "norm" as a nod to the
formality of the occasion.

So if everyone dresses in jeans and a t-shirt I might wear slacks and a polo
or jeans and a button down shirt. If they wear business casual I'd probably
wear a suit (though probably sans jacket).

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classicsnoot
I am a film producer. On a horror short in the woods [VHS 2: RIP segment] we
had a PA (Production Assistant- the grunts of film) show up in a elegant black
cocktail dress and some very expensive heels. She was smart, funny, and
positively radiant. We had her sit around in the office until we wrapped and
did not ask her back. It had everything to do with her attire and nothing to
do with her gender. I will point out that when I asked her about her clothing
choice (as the AD that was completely within my purview) she said, "I thought
I would be working with the Director." Ridiculous.

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ukigumo
I hate it that in this day and age people would still be passed on a job they
are qualified for and willing to do because of the way they chose to dress or
ornaments they chose to use.

Having said this, the article is rage-bait. Remove the "female" from the title
and it's just another Tuesday. Getting a job is hard for everyone.

~~~
0xdeadbeefbabe
Not trying to be cynical, but I feel like days and ages would only shift this
problem around instead of fixing it.

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JSeymourATL
Judging a candidate by looks alone may seem like a shallow thing. But the
profane FB rant demonstrates a definite lack of professional composure. The
company dodged a problematic hire. I'm afraid this poor decision will haunt
her.

~~~
billpg
An FB rant posted as visible-to-friends-only.

~~~
jpetersonmn
Perhaps it started that way, but it's visible to the world now.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
So what? You don't have any co-workers that rant? Most programmers get respect
for their skills. I've worked with all kinds. How? Professionalism. They want
to wear funny hats, or a tutu, whatever. Some of them even make catty remarks
about other employees clothing choices. That's pretty low, but I put up with
it.

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Grue3
When has a company ever described the reasons for not hiring you in such
detail? I've been rejected like 50 times and not once was a reason given other
than "we're searching for a candidate of another profile". Which I guess is a
great way to avoid discrimination lawsuits. If this article is true, OnShift
has the dumbest recruiters ever and I hope they get what's coming for them.

~~~
runamok
That's what stands out to me too. Which HR 101 class did they miss to make a
statement like that to the interviewer?

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omonra
I'd change the article title to 'Millennial encounters real world, fails to
learn lesson."

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swamp40
_" These are the reasons she cited: 1) I 'looked more like I was about to go
clubbing than to an interview.' 2) I 'had a huge run in my tights' 3) I was
late."_

I'm going to make a giant leap of faith here and suggest that the person who
denied her the job was probably a female.

I simply cannot envision a guy telling a girl he wasn't going to hire her
because of a run in her tights.

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DiabloD3
I'm sorry, but what does her being female have to do with this? The company
clearly has a dress code, she did not meet it during the interview.

~~~
jrock08
Business casual is defined constructively for males and existentially for
females. Examples of how to dress business casual for men and women clearly
show this.[1]

Scrolling through the results of an image search for "women's business casual"
vs "men's business casual" also highlight a stark difference.

This leads to unconscious bias against women. It isn't that we don't want to
hire you, it's that we felt like you made a dress Faux pas that a male is
never given the opportunity to make. Your skirt was slightly too high and also
red, the top slightly too low cut, you wore slightly too much makeup, and even
though you paired the skirt with leggings, we just felt you don't "understand"
business dress.

[1] [http://www.wikihow.com/Dress-Business-
Casual](http://www.wikihow.com/Dress-Business-Casual)

~~~
cpncrunch
Yes, women have a lot more choice in what they wear for business attire,
whereas men have it pretty easy. Overall it doesn't really make sense to
reject her for this reason when the dress code is casual for the position she
was applying for. Perhaps if she was going for an executive position it might
make a difference. It might be a problem is she dressed as a hooker, but that
definitely doesn't seem to be the case.

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classicsnoot
Two points:

>This person does seem rather entitled as well as naive. I think her post was
used to continue the "fight against patriarchy" and, much like the Rolling
Stone article about UVA, is rather counterproductive.

>I do feel for women in the workplace, in any vocation, in terms of dress. It
is an unfair standard and attention, impolite and otherwise, is completely
unavoidable. It is a tricky situation: I believe in freedom of choice, but i
know fighting biology is futile. There must be some middle ground between the
burkah and the bikini...

~~~
jrock08
>There must be some middle ground between the burkah and the bikini

Yeah there must be some sort of middle ground, like a skirt and leggings, and
a blouse.

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gregor7777
What's the female equivalent to "always suit up"?

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EliRivers
A suit.

It's basically the same as a man's suit, except that you may swap out the
trousers ("pants") for a matching skirt, and no tie. As such, the blouse
typically leaves the top button undone.

~~~
gregor7777
Gotcha. Figured there was something similar for women. Always suit up.

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jolan
So she was late to the interview yet she thinks her attire is what cost her
the internship?

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edoceo
Interview in highly professional clothes. I'm a software engineer but I wear
collar with matching pants and jacket (no tie) to interview. Work pants,
hoodie+As hat once I demonstrate my value. One must bring A-game to the first
meeting.

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jack9
There's nothing wrong with that attire. In fact, it's not worth commenting on
further. The interviewers have a poor understanding of the state of the
industry, if that was the actual reasoning (which is doubtful).

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kyriakos
its considered acceptable for a candidate when called for an interview to ask
about the required dress code. I did this many times and worked well.

You don't know who will be present at the interview, e.g. it could be upper
management and therefore you should dress accordingly. Asking beforehand also
helps make sure you don't overdress which could make you feel uncomfortable
during the interview and have a negative impact.

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jrs235
To boil down why her clothing was considered "unprofessional", it should be
safe to say that clothing that reveals the pectoralis major muscle is not
considered professional.

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jklein11
I think the recruiters second two comments were the most valid. Being late and
having a run in your stockings seems to show a lack of caring and
professionalism.

The comment about "looking like she was ready to go out" was, in my opinion
just a poor way of saying that she was too casual. I understand that the
company may have a casual dress code, but it sounds like her appearance was
"unprofessional" and not "overtly sexy". I would imagine that a guy showing up
in a tattered suit would have gotten a similarly poor response.

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swamp40
Who wants a job in Cleveland, anyways?

~~~
cpncrunch
People living in Cleveland?

