

Ask HN: Remote IT workers, are these practices frequent/legal? - xpto123

I mean what they demand on this page http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.toptal.com&#x2F;developers&#x2F;requirements<p>I find it shocking that they expect remote workers on a 7 hour difference timezone to start working extremelly early in the morning and work through the night if needed.<p>I find it also strange to expect someone to be reachable outside their normal working hours without being on call and properly compensated for their availability.<p>It sounds like these companies are taking advantage of the desire these engineers have for better projects without leaving their countries to for them to work in less than human conditions.<p>Amanzingly they only mention european countries where the labour law is said to work better.<p>In you experience, are these practices common&#x2F; legal or is an isolated case ?<p>If they mention these things on their public web page, what else can be going on.
======
jasonkester
No, of course not. No professional is going to work a graveyard shift as a
matter of course just because his client is overseas. I work remotely for a
U.S. Company and simply do my regular schedule regardless of what time that
translates to over there.

I split my year between London and Paris time because, well, that's why we
work remote in the first place, right? A couple months each winter might find
me on a pleasant surfing beach that translates to 'Chicago time' or similar,
so if you need to talk to me at four in the afternoon your time, that would be
a good time to find me.

But again, no. I'm not going to check my email or respond to your Skype
requests late an night. Just like I wouldn't expect them to answer their phone
were I to call them at four in the morning.

~~~
xpto123
That's the type of things that would make remote work attractive to me, but
working at night would basically change everything.

And do you recommend other sites as alternative to them where these things
don't happen? Or was it all via contacts.

Because this seems to be one of the top sites for remote software development
work and they put this in their welcome page, so I wonder if your case is not
the exception.

Thanks.

------
hakanderyal
They are not expecting to start working early and work through the night. They
just want you to adapt to the client's work schedule. So if the client's
workday starts at 7 pm in your timezone, you start working at 7 pm, and work
normal work-hours (8 hours) through the night.

And they properly compensate for the availability, they pay top money for
their developers.

I'm not affiliated with them in any war, nor worked for them, but only heard
good things from developers working for them.

~~~
xpto123
Hello, and is the work at night all the time, or is it shift based only one
week a month? Because that's what happens with people that work at hospitals,
night guards etc. to avoid harming the workers health in the long-term.

------
munimkazia
For remote jobs, these practices are quite common. They aren't making you work
for long hours. Working during odd hours is not uncommon for even local jobs
for jobs which need it (establishments which remain open during odd hours of
the day for example), so I doubt there is any legal issue here.

There is nothing unethical or even shameful about this practice. It is
perfectly legit. Personally, I start work in the afternoon and work till late
night, because those are the hours my employer works.

~~~
xpto123
Hello, and is it work at night all the time, or shift based? How was you
experience doing it. Today couldn't do it myself, maybe at an younger age.

I don't think its shameful, I might have done it myself. Its a first world
problem clearly.

Still I wonder about the legality, because in most countries there are laws
that prevent workers from working at night all the time.

At most you make shifts, and workers do it one week a month, and not all the
time for years to prevent long term health consequences for the worker.

------
mtmail
Is it also shocking and a less human conditions if somebody works in a
supermarket or petrol station and the shift is early mornings or late
evenings? I'd say it absolutely common in a lot of professions, maybe less
with software engineering.

~~~
xpto123
I guess if someone is making a good living out of it and that avoids the
person having to shift to another country its their choice and its OK. But I
am surprised the law does not protect remote workers more from these things in
european countries. I personally think that remote workers should be more
protected.

One thing to bear in mind is that we humans beings have evolved to live during
the day, and there are health implications for living most of the time at
night. This is why petrol workers etc. can only work one week or so a month in
the night, and are compensated accordingly.

But an employer can't just say that an employee will work all the time at
night for years, its illegal AFIK due to the aforementioned health
implications for the worker.

Shift works is one thing, working all the time at night because the employer
is in a different timezone? sounds illegal to me and so the question of its it
frequent.

There are other problems with working all the time at night: the impact on
your social life, if you have kids they go to bed at 8h so if you start
working at 6PM and work through the night basically you never see them etc.

This is why I found it very surprising, because this is apparently happening
with engineers living in european countries, where the law is supposed to
shield them against these things and there is a lack of software developers
everywhere.

