
Software engineer salary numbers in the US - tomwinter
https://devskiller.com/infographic-software-engineer-salary/
======
eganist
The bay is greatly skewed down by the number of startups skipping on base and
offering buckets of equity in exchange. More established companies offering
less in equity but keen on retention are driving compensation battles
resulting in medians closer to 250/y.

But even then I'm shocked at some of the numbers. A median of 98 is poverty
level in the city of San Francisco when you consider studios can go for
2500+/mo in the outskirts of the city. Shoot, after taxes as well as rent and
_before_ utilities and other costs of living, my napkin math suggests you'd be
left with less than 24,000 a year. Doesn't matter how much equity you get,
that's not liveable.

Considering I'm also a hiring manager and have seen others' offer letters when
negotiating (and have also seen some of the competitive research that goes
into pricing our own roles), I'm also pretty convinced the dataset used here
misrepresents reality.

~~~
gambiting
I'm really curious, how is ~$2000/month not livable?

~~~
monkeynotes
$2,000 a month livable? I have a small ~$230k mortgage and just the cost of
owning the house (power, water, sewer, city taxes, insurance, mortgage
payment) comes to over $2,000 a month.

We have a hard time making $4k a month cover expenses when you factor in a
home repairs, car, gas, food, health care, internet, cell phone. Shit adds up
so fast. Saving for retirement or a vacation is not easy.

~~~
gambiting
Once again, I was replying to a post saying that $2000/month _after rent and
taxes_ is not livable. I don't live in SF so I am genuinely curious how two
thousand US dollars is not enough _after taxes and rent_ to live comfortably.

~~~
monkeynotes
My bad, skim reader here :/

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throwaway2016a
This graph is interesting for a few reasons:

1\. The range is way off. The top of the range is $113k with someone with 15+
years experience making $101k? Where do those number come from? Salary.com has
the median for a Software Engineer V where I am at $150k with 75th percentile
of $170k and I'm in New Hampshire not SV (small suburban State north of
Massachusetts / Boston)!

2\. No Boston in the list of cities?

3\. Using high heels as a symbol for woman. Really?

Edit: Apparently they changed the graphic so #3 is no longer relevant. Except
for the fact I think it is relevant that they chose that symbol in the first
place.

~~~
ttoinou

       3. Using high heals as a symbol for woman. Really? 
    

Refresh, it has changed.

And read the comments before :)

~~~
throwaway2016a
I know I'm not the first one in this thread to notice that (I upvoted the
other post that said something) but I opted to include all my thoughts in one
message even though there is another thread for #3. I mean... technically I'm
not the first one to make point #1 either in this thread. I think some
duplication of thoughts is OK.

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ObjectiveSub
It's so strange seeing these numbers and thinking "Really, I thought we got
paid more?" It's making me think that perhaps I'm in a bubble. Everyone I know
around me (friends, coworkers, etc.) makes at least 200k combined income, with
the average being in the high 200s. This is at FANG, mind you. Are the
salaries outside of FANG really that much lower? Even in LA/SF? Can anyone
comment on that?

~~~
cimmanom
I don't know anyone making $200K outside a bank. Senior salaries in NYC (which
is a high-price/high-salary city) tend to run around $150K, give or take 20%
(for 10+ years of experience, not someone with 2.5 years experience and a
"senior" title).

~~~
monkeynotes
I assumed by `combined income` the commenter meant household combined - AKA
two earners, I'm unclear on what the intention meaning is now.

~~~
mcargian
The original linked article calculated combined income by combining salary +
bonus + profit sharing.

~~~
monkeynotes
TIL I need to get a new job.

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nyae
I just don't know if this data is accurate. The people around me all make
around 150-200k, but this graphic makes that out to be exceedingly rare. Yet I
know I could do a quick search and find plenty of opportunities in that range.

~~~
leetcrew
it's hard to know how to interpret all this data when the sources report such
different values. in particular, i really wonder what to make of the fact that
the bureau of labor reports median pay that is significantly higher than most
of the values for average pay reported by other sources. if this were actually
true, it would indicate a very wacky pay distribution.

------
Glyptodon
Probably goes to show that tech bubbles are real - perhaps for every
developer/engineer working at big tech or in startups there are several
working at SMBs or in other industries on unsexy line of business stuff for
mediocre or low wages?

I've certainly applied for jobs at a few non-tech places (or at least places
were they don't identify themselves as tech even when it's pretty central) in
non-coastal states and discovered that even asking for $80k or more can be
asking for much more than current leads or senior devs/engineers are being
paid. Has lead to some awkward phone interviews. At some of them there also
seems to be a sort of naive thing going on where they don't feel comfortable
paying developer "engineers" the same or more than their "real" (mechanical,
civil, chemical, aerospace, etc.) engineers when they're hiring someone to
"just" work on web-based line-of-business type stuff.

(Somewhat related, I'm _very_ _very_ done with job ads/recruitments that don't
somehow indicate competitive compensation up front. So many places sort of
understand that they don't pay well, but feel like it's somehow justified
because employees are supposed to put the business first or something stupid,
and still seem to think they can find decent employees. Which, given that
wages in many places don't seem like they've changed much over the last few
years, they probably are at least finding minimum viable employees at their
rates.)

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jawns
In one of the infographics, high-heeled shoes represent women and mustaches
represent men. Seems strange to choose two gender attributes that are so ...
optional.

~~~
badpun
How many men were high heels and how many women have mustache? I don't think
the infographics introduce confusion.

~~~
throwaway2016a
That's not the point. No one was confused.

Heels are a controversial thing in the work place. Some people see them as a
symbol of oppression for women because they are uncomfortable and serve little
purpose but to make women taller and their legs look longer (which to many
people translates to sexier).

On the flip side. In past history men have worn high heels too. And some
feminists see them as a symbol of empowerment.

There have been more than a few controversies over workplaces forcing woman to
wear hears. Especially on jobs where they are on their feet all day like
retail.

In any case, not the best choice of a symbol.

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firebird84
The contrast between colors in some of the national maps is really bad...I
can't associate the colors with the data, especially for the lime green one.

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swagtricker
Those number are way off for the greater Seattle area. $70k is what university
students make their first year if they interview well and have had an
internship/summer job before graduating. You factor in contracting rates for
folks with 10+ years experience and principle salaries at Microsoft, Amazon
and local Google/Facebook expansion offices and you start moving strongly into
the $200k/year + stock & benefits neighborhood (assuming you can stomach the
political bullshit, that is...).

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tacogordito
These seem low. Glassdoor and other websites don't normally account for stock
options and the massive stock appreciation that has been occurring.

~~~
ryandrake
Aren’t these sites powered by self reported data, which, I would imagine,
skews high instead of low. As averages I totally believe them. Reading HN,
you’d think everyone makes $300k but these comp packages are for outlier
employees at super outlier companies. Find me a software developer at a small
mom-n-pop company that makes that much. That company’s president doesn’t even
make that much!

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kbutler
Here I am in the lovely state of JT.

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webrender
These numbers seem low, based on both anecdotal evidence, and compared to
Hired's 2018 tech salaries map: [https://hired.com/state-of-
salaries-2018](https://hired.com/state-of-salaries-2018)

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mathattack
“Given that compensation is the second biggest obstacle to attracting top
talent, companies may need to be more flexible when it comes to negotiating
pay. This means that candidates have gotten used to and are now more confident
when negotiating pay. As an employer, you need to prepare a strategy of how
you want to communicate during negotiations.”

This will exacerbate gender differeneces rather than improve them. [0] It
introduces bias and favors hiring people with more aggressive self images.

[0] [http://gap.hks.harvard.edu/do-women-avoid-salary-
negotiation...](http://gap.hks.harvard.edu/do-women-avoid-salary-negotiations-
evidence-large-scale-natural-field-experiment)

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JohnJamesRambo
I can't wait for my plumbing engineer to come fix my toilet.

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thrownaway954
doesn't mention what programming languages they used for the data.

~~~
tomwinter
a really good idea for the next infographic. If anybody can help with sources,
I'll be happy to go through the data

