
Fulfilling the promise of an officeless world - Wump
http://blog.screenhero.com/post/47232460599/fulfilling-the-promise-of-an-officeless-world
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nilkn
I love coding and engineering, but I do sometimes regret going into software
development instead of, say, medicine or dentistry. And it's not about the
money per se--it's about the location. One of my friends growing up is about
to start his medical residency and I occasionally think about how a doctor
will be able to work really anywhere in the country and be guaranteed a very
comfortable six figure salary (at the minimum). If I want a similar salary,
however, I feel constrained to go to a few of the tech hubs--Silicon Valley,
NYC--where I will be faced with extraordinary cost-of-living expenses. I think
back to my dentist growing up who had a little private practice in my home
town. He surely made what a Google engineer makes, at the minimum, but he
lived in a town where $500k gets you a literal mansion and $1m homes don't
even exist.

Certainly this is a first world problem in its purest form. But remote
development to me represents one way for software developers to realize the
dream of high-paying jobs anywhere, even in a rural town in Missouri.

~~~
enraged_camel
_I occasionally think about how a doctor will be able to work really anywhere
in the country and be guaranteed a very comfortable six figure salary (at the
minimum)_

I would contest the "very comfortable" part. For one thing, the training and
education a doctor has to go through is an order of magnitude more intense -
and it is expensive as hell[1]. For another, after med school doctors continue
to work like crazy. My parents, who are in their late 50s and early 60s, still
work 12 hours a day on a regular basis, and have to consume entire
journals/periodicals and travel for international conferences just to stay on
top of new things.

Among the hundred or more doctors I personally know of among my family's
circle of friends and acquaintences, only one or two live "comfortably," by
working a few days a week and making a ton of money. But that's because they:

a) have hyper-specialized so that they are one of the few experts in their
sub-field b) live in a geographic area where they can charge a ton for their
services

Compared to this, a software engineer making a low six figure salary lives a
very comfortable life. AND software is much less location-dependent, since you
can work remotely (unlike doctors).

[1]A software engineer goes to college for four years and then gets a job as a
programmer. In stark contrast, a doctor though has to do four years of
undergrad, four years of med school after that, and then three to seven years
of residency. If they want to become highly specialized? Two to three years of
fellowship after residency.

~~~
nilkn
If your parents are doctors, I will gladly admit you probably know more about
this than I do. So it would be silly for me to try to contest everything you
wrote. However, I do have a few points:

> it is expensive as hell

It is incredibly expensive, but there are a few points to make here:

* $150-200k are the minimum salaries for doctors in many areas. Certain specialists can make $300-450k anywhere in the country. I'm sure a select few make far more even than that, but then again a select few software developers are billionaires, so perhaps we'd best steer the discussion away from the best of the best here, otherwise it just gets silly.

* There are army scholarships which eliminate the debt entirely. The catch is you have to work as an army doctor for several years after residency, and the pay there is less than civilian doctors make (although still a lot, even in cheap areas).

* Let's say a medical student goes into $300k of debt (which is an overestimate for most cases). The difference in cost between a nice house in San Francisco and a nice house in a small town is far more than $300k. So in a long run, the doctor who chooses to work in a small town can still come out on top--and with a greater salary as well once the debt is paid off.

> My parents, who are in their late 50s and early 60s, still work 12 hours a
> day on a regular basis, and have to consume entire journals/periodicals and
> travel for international conferences just to stay on top of new things.

It would seem to me that this is not much different from many lesser paying
jobs in the software industry, even (in fact, especially) in hot spots like
Silicon Valley.

> software is much less location-dependent, since you can work remotely

That is the hope, anyway.

~~~
enraged_camel
Doctors don't start out with $150-200k. Remember that they have to go through
residency first, during which they make $40-60k. Which may sound decent, but
when you realize they have to work 80+ hours AND with a ton of debt, it's
actually pretty dismal.

Even after that though, they make around 125-175k. Most doctors do not start
making over 200k until ten or more years of practice. And again, that's with
around 1500-1900 hours per year, which is considerably more than most software
engineers.

~~~
bartonfink
1500-1900 hours per year is considerably more than most software engineers?
Are you sure you haven't miscalculated somewhere along the way to derive that?

Assuming we're talking about the US, I just don't see how that assertion can
hold water. 2000 hours per year is a widely-held rule of thumb for "full time"
employment - 40 hours a week * 50 work weeks per year. 1500 hours means you
average a 30 hour work week or take a tremendous amount of vacation - neither
of which sound anything like the employment situations for "most software
engineers."

~~~
enraged_camel
Sorry, I fat-fingered it. I meant 2500-2900 hours per year.

~~~
pc86
I don't want to nit pick, but even 2500 hours a year is only 52-53 hours a
week with _4 weeks_ off for vacation every year. Use the 2900 figure and
you're still just barely over 60 with a month for vacation. Not a bad deal to
make ~4x the median US salary.

I understand what you're saying though. It's a lot "easier" to go to school
for four years, make $90-120k and have $0-40k in student debt than it is to go
to school for a decade, make $125-175k and have $80-150k in student debt. But
truthfully, when you have that kind of buying power you can live like a
student for just two more years and completely pay off your debt (or very
close to it). Software developers usually don't have that kind of buying
power. Outside of the Valley and NYC an entry-level developer may only make
$30k a year. Even a $200-300/mo student loan payment at that income is tight.

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PixelPusher
First, an office less world is a dream right now. If you plan to be hyper-
competitive, there's no substitution to 'water-cooler' talk. Technology is
nowhere near being able to reproduce that.

Second, why would they put the picture of a communist leader who used to shoot
defectors and kill artists? Why is he any sort of hero?

~~~
hcarvalhoalves
> Second, why would they put the picture of a communist leader who used to
> shoot defectors and kill artists? Why is he any sort of hero?

It's a play with the word "revolution".

~~~
minopret
So, at how many RPM does Che turn in his grave?

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cgh
I've been working remotely (1500 km from the office) as a programmer since
Sept. 2006. I believe there is huge potential for innovation here and that
current collaboration tools are pretty primitive, although I have to say,
Webex is a lifesaver. This Screenhero application looks like a great
complement.

Companies can gain a lot by allowing people to work remotely - they vastly
increase the talent pool and they save money by not having to supply office
space. But like the article said, there's a cultural issue here. The whole
thing reminds me of online dating ten years ago, when the perception was that
it's for losers. Now seemingly everyone does it.

What's needed is basically validation for this lifestyle. Once that happens,
the awesome tools will follow. Screenhero seems like a great first step for
sure.

~~~
pm
Have you seen the people are online dating these days? I don't think much has
changed.

~~~
potatolicious
As someone who works in online dating, it has absolutely changed. Online
dating is more or less accepted in all major urban centers of the country, in
fact becoming a core part of how people date in some (larger) cities like NYC,
SF, and DC.

The attitudes re: online dating a few years ago vs. now are like night and
day.

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flyinglizard
This is the inevitable future, but something else - and related - I've been
thinking about is the rise of the freelance. These two processes go hand in
hand on the path to a more efficient yet flexible employment.

~~~
potatolicious
Flexible sure, but not efficient. There's no way freelancing is overall a more
efficient allocation of labor than employment.

The problem is that in freelance you're getting a bunch of specialized labor
to spend a considerable portion of their time performing a non-productive
task: i.e., sales.

This is suboptimal use of time for the worker, since those hours aren't
billable. This is suboptimal use of time for the employer, since evaluating
bids and candidates isn't free either.

In cases where the employer does not have enough work to justify a full-time
hire, this is an acceptable cost of doing business in order for the work to be
done. It doesn't scale beyond this group though.

Having a bunch of engineers spend a significant portion of their time
performing salesmanship rather than engineering is very inefficient, though it
may achieve locally optimal results for the individual if you account for
flexibility.

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lebek
As an exchange student that doesn't want to go home for his final year, remote
degree would be nice too. Mobile work is a relatively trivial problem compared
to a long-distance relationship.

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aantix
Meh, screen sharing is only part of the solution. I want to see who is
available, who they've been chatting with, and I want to instantly share
screens when I want.

The only tool on the market that does this is Sococo; I don't understand why
it never gets mentioned in these conversations..
<https://www.sococo.com/home#screens-carousel>

~~~
reustle
I would never want to work for you.

~~~
aantix
Why is that?

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tadfisher
I can't help but think of the environmental repercussions of this, should it
come to pass. I can imagine that the cost of heating millions of houses and
apartments during the day far exceeds the cost of heating a lesser number of
shared office buildings and other collective spaces.

An alternative would be if those millions of information workers worked out of
coffee shops and the like during the day, but at that point, what is the
benefit over working in an office?

~~~
justinsteele
Why not have communal workspaces in your neighborhood? Have friends over to
work at your home, or vice versa? I'm an extrovert working from home, and
occasionally struggling with it, but I can see where it would work
beautifully.

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imissmyjuno
UI nag: the fixed header is not functional (how often do people search a
blog)?

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polemic
Beardy: _"$8/month billed annually"_

