
British Airways announces immediate retirement of 747 fleet - cockpitherald
https://airlinegeeks.com/2020/07/16/british-airways-announces-immediate-retirement-of-747-fleet/
======
Ambroos
One of my playlists is called "64K", after the seat I had on my first BA 747
flight two years ago, AUS>LHR, my second ever trip in Business Class. I
prepared the music in advance to download it, all nice relaxing tracks (Aimee
Mann / Feist / Beth Gibbons / Norah Jones). I was super excited for the
flight, and really happy that 64K was available, it was supposedly one of the
best business class seats on the plane. Upper deck, window seat, last one on
the right. No need to step over anyone, near-perfect privacy, a massive amount
of storage space, and first in line to get off the plane.

I put on my playlist in shuffle after dinner, and drifted away into a very
nice, long, uninterrupted sleep. When I woke up my breakfast was ready and
waiting for me on the big surfaces below the windows. BA Club World has it's
issues, but that flight was so memorably that I renamed my playlist from
"Night Tunes" to "64K" to remember it.

~~~
jsolson
Beth Gibbons is not a name I usually see called out as a solo artist -- to be
honest, until today I didn't know she had done any solo work, despite
Portishead's Dummy being in my most played albums every year since software
started keeping track of that kind of thing for me.

Thanks for causing me to Google that. Now I've got something "new" to listen
to while I make breakfast.

~~~
Ambroos
The album "Out Of Season" she did with Rustin Man is really good, all of her
tracks on my 64K playlist are from that one.

------
txcwpalpha
The 747s are certainly long in the tooth and A350s, 777s, 787s are better in
almost every way, but it's still sad to see the 747s go. They're iconic and
always so much fun (to me) to see taking off/landing.

Wouldn't be surprised if this means the A380 being retired isn't far behind,
too. It may have some life left in it because LHR really needs those big
planes due to limited landing slots, but if travel doesn't pick up soon and
they can't fill the A380s... yikes.

~~~
lsllc
I've been lucky enough to fly on the upper deck of a 747 a handful of times
(both economy and business, never first!). I've yet to fly on a A380 but I
suspect time is running out there.

That being said, flying long haul (transatlantic) on a 787 is sooo much
better!

~~~
GrifMD
I'm glad I got to fly in a 747 upper deck and nose (thanks BA and Qantas).
Still I really wish I could have flown in the proper nose right at the front.
The idea of having forwardish facing windows just looks so nice.

I will say the A380 is really so much better than 747s (or at least 747-4s,
not sure about the newer -8s). You can just tell how much quieter it is, and
the size of some of the business class sections is outstanding. Emirates'
business class bar is such a fun little novelty that made flying delightful.
And their economy just felt better too.

~~~
Jonnerz
I was lucky enough to fly first earlier this year on a BA 747 to Dubai (Avios
reward flight). I was sat in the 2nd row, but the seat is not that close to
the window which makes it hard to benefit from the angled windows. It was
cool, but not as great as people make it out to be.

------
iso1631
Flown 39 times on a BA 747 to 3 continents in all 4 classes. One flight in Feb
2014 I remember from Mumbai had water pouring from the ceiling on me on
takeoff. the planes felt old then. Most recent flight was down to Nairobi and
back in 2018, they've been really showing their age for a long time,
especially compared with the A350 and 787s I've been flying more recently on
Qatar.

But even the objectively superior business class on QR's new planes can't
compare with climbing the stairs to the top deck, sitting in 64A [0] with the
table and bins next to you for your flight. I first did this in September
2012, on a flight from Moscow to Heathrow. While we were coming in over the
North sea I gave the at-seat phone a go -- it still worked (I think they were
removed from service a while ago), certainly an experience at the time to be
able to talk to someone from mid-air.

My wife and I had a weekend to Seatle in 2014, and bagged seat 1A and 1K at
the very nose[1]. I think the 747 is the only plane you can get where you fly
in front of the pilot (the A380 cockpit is at the front), and a unique
experience.

I wasn't really flying when Concorde was around, and I've always regretted not
flying it, but I'm glad I managed to experience both the upper deck and the
nosecone on a 747.

(Oh yes, BA's 747 was one of the few planes I've flown on with a window in the
toilet)

[0]
[https://21stcenturyjourneys.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/dsc0...](https://21stcenturyjourneys.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/dsc00187.jpg)

[1]
[https://scottmcgee.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/11-ba747-larg...](https://scottmcgee.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/11-ba747-large.jpg)

~~~
jgrahamc
I've had water pour on my on a BA 747. Was quite a few years ago but it's
caused by condensation which then finds a way out when the plane takes off and
tilts upwards.

~~~
benhurmarcel
Yes it's condensation and happens on every airliner, but the water is normally
contained by the thermal insulation and runs behinds the panels down to the
bilge area (at the bottom of the fuselage barrel). Some issues in the
insulation condition or installation can result in water dropping in the
cabin.

~~~
wastedhours
Interesting, thanks! Did always wonder why sometimes you can hear some running
water in the panels. I always assumed it was something on the outside of the
plane.

------
yingw787
I wonder if there will be a Cunard-like airline that flies older planes
because people want to experience them.

I believe Cunard (part of Carnival) operates the Queen Mary 2, the last
running ocean liner on Earth. It does Southampton to New York via traditional
Atlantic crossing, just like the Titanic (almost) did. Not sure if it makes
money, but (pre-pandemic) it was likely subsidized by other cruise ships or by
QM2 cruising herself.

It'd be cool to have a flight from Heathrow to JFK (?) on one 747 for people
who want to experience the same plane. I think an airline enthusiast might go
several times a year, and there's a goodly number of airline enthusiasts.

I think a flying boat tour of the Pacific islands would be a wicked honeymoon!

~~~
lmm
> I believe Cunard (part of Carnival) operates the Queen Mary 2, the last
> running ocean liner on Earth. It does Southampton to New York via
> traditional Atlantic crossing, just like the Titanic (almost) did. Not sure
> if it makes money, but (pre-pandemic) it was likely subsidized by other
> cruise ships or by QM2 cruising herself.

I doubt it's subsidized, given how expensive it is. I'm not sure what
distinction you're drawing between "cruise ship" and "ocean liner" \- I guess
in theory the QM2 runs to a timetable while cruise ships run to ad-hoc charter
schedules, but in practice those cruise schedules are set years in advance and
that timetable can be changed on fairly short notice. When I looked into a
round-the-world trip it didn't seem like e.g. Vancouver-Hawaii was going to be
any harder than NY-Southampton - in both cases you look at the schedule and
book your trip months in advance.

The QM2 is a luxury service but it's not just for enthusiasts - there are
plenty of people who can't or don't want to fly, and are willing to pay the
price.

~~~
yingw787
Oh there's significant structural differences between cruise ships and ocean
liners. Ocean liner's bow is strengthened for travel in adverse seas, and the
stern is cupped rather than box-shaped to reduce roll. The superstructure is
tapered for better balance, and the engines are optimized for power / speed
moreso than vibration / comfort. They're more expensive than cruise ships as a
result.

See: [https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-
ocean-l...](https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-ocean-liner-
and-vs-cruise-ship/)

~~~
lmm
Then presumably those ships doing Vancouver-Hawaii are "ocean liners" in that
sense, and the QM2 is by no means "the last running ocean liner on Earth"?

~~~
mmphosis
With the exception of RMS Queen Mary 2 (Cunard Line: 2004-present), the ocean
liner is nearly extinct.

[https://oppositelock.kinja.com/the-last-surviving-
transatlan...](https://oppositelock.kinja.com/the-last-surviving-
transatlantic-ocean-liners-1691853406)

~~~
lmm
You don't seem to have engaged with the discussion. This was claimed two or
three posts back, but what does it actually mean?

Plenty of passenger ships - to give a concrete example, the _Spirit_ class -
routinely make transoceanic crossings at a reasonable speed following
schedules published years in advance. Perhaps a little slower than the QM2.
Perhaps with slightly more onboard amenities. But I can see no clear
distinction that justifies this talk of the QM2 being somehow "the last" and
qualitatively different from these other ships that do very much the same
thing in practice.

~~~
richthegeek
It was explained wasn't it? The design parameters are different, as the
purpose is different (transportation rather than leisure).

"Bob is the last sheep"

"But I see all these four-legged ruminants wandering around eating grass, what
about them?"

"Those are goats"

"You don't seem to have engaged with the discussion..."

~~~
lmm
I responded to that, and then grandparent just reverted to a blank assertion.
It's more like:

"Bob is the last sheep"

"But I see all these four-legged ruminants wandering around eating grass, what
about them?"

"Those are goats"

"We're shearing them and gathering wool from them; doesn't that make them
sheep?"

"Bob is the last sheep"

"You don't seem to have engaged with the discussion..."

------
ggm
The Boeing of today might not be able to do what the Boeing of yesteryear did,
getting the 747 series to a 50+ year life.

I say this because of the MAX, and some other behaviours which stem from
Boeing moving from an engineering focussed company to a giant shit-show of
mergers, stock games, and west-east mindshare collapse (judged from the
partisan books & articles I read)

I fly Boeing and Airbus mainly whenever I travel, which used to be 10+ times
per year long-haul worldwide. Never felt unsafe and that includes aborted
takeoffs, engine fails on the ramp, and airpack breakdowns in-flight
necessitating fuel-dump and go-back. These machines work. The FCC mandated
engineering around flight safety in operations work.

But.. I trust the 74x and the 380/350 more than I trust the 787 and the MAX
because of some spectacularly bad public engineering exposure.

The battery fire story, and the MAX-no-training-needed story are really not
good for Boeing.

The whole "if it isn't boeing I am not going" thing is long long past.

on the jumbo, It wasn't the first 'passenger plane with a bump' -there was a
couple of precursors in the pre-jet era, including one designed to carry a car
in the body and pax up top. And, it wasn't the first with stairs by a long
chalk, the flying boats had them as did some of the jet era precursors.

But, it was by far and away the bestest, most successful 4 engine plane. The
life extension, (and length extensions!) over the series was amazing. As was
the fuel economy and fitout. I think the decision by Lufthansa to re-tool on
the 8 series was probably a huge mistake, but then so was QANTAS decision not
to take the 777.

Airbus did good work with the 380. I think it is a fantastic ride as a
passenger, in all classes, its quiet, and lovely and when full, good economic
sense. But its dying from a change in the model.

The 747 is going to have a long life in cargo. I think even without a lift-
nose this workhorse has a lot to go yet.

 _(not a pilot: 20+ year international business traveller perspective)_

~~~
bkor
> But.. I trust the 74x and the 380/350 more than I trust the 787 and the MAX
> because of some spectacularly bad public engineering exposure.

I've followed the 737 MAX debacle quite a bit. I've also seen a video from
someone who used to analyse (private) airplane crashes. He made it really
clear that any crash is the result of a multiple of reasons. Meaning, there's
no one root cause, there are multiple causes coming together. This unlike
business where it's almost always assumed that there's a "root cause"
(singular).

One worry of mine is that not enough is done to allow the FAA to properly
certify the 737 MAX. There's been (proposed?) changes, but they feel more like
window dressing. Other aviation authorities used to follow the FAA, due to the
737 MAX you see that this trust has gone. You've highlighted how the change in
culture in Boeing is another cause of this. But aside from that, if this could
happen at Boeing, it could (theoretically) just as well happen with Airbus.
This again due to a multitude of reasons, how FAA is setup, Boeing changed,
competition from Airbus, advantage of reusing an existing type. A lot of
reasons could be applicable again, or apply to Airbus.

Aside from really checking the 737 MAX plus other aviation authorities not
really trusting the FAA I don't see enough comprehensive changes.

Regarding the 747 and retiring of these planes: it seems every new airplane
gives people less space to walk around, less space for luggage, less space in
chairs (chair width is important as well!), etc.

------
maccard
I'm a little nostalgic for this - I flew quite a few trips in the upper deck
of a 747 over the last few years, almost all of them on the back of a long
stretch of work and a "celebratory" night before travelling. It's a strange
feeling but I'm almost sad to see them go.

On the other hand, more modern plans are so much more efficient. An A350 uses
literally half the fuel of an A380, (which itself uses less than a 747).With
lower capacity hopefully comes lower demand for air travel - this can only be
a good thing.

~~~
pdonis
_> With lower capacity hopefully comes lower demand for air travel - this can
only be a good thing._

Why is it only a good thing? Lower capacity for air travel means all kinds of
travel that is of value to people can't reasonably take place any more. People
have relatives and friends that live too far away to make visiting in person
by any other means infeasible. People want to go to see places in person that
they can't feasibly get to any other way. People have business reasons to make
trips that can't feasibly be made any other way. There was a lot of demand
pre-COVID for air travel for a reason. The capacity just vanishing is a loss
for many.

~~~
lmm
> People have business reasons to make trips that can't feasibly be made any
> other way. There was a lot of demand pre-COVID for air travel for a reason.

Maybe. I think we've seen that a lot of those business trips weren't actually
necessary as such, and were more about making an expensive signal of
commitment.

~~~
mr_toad
Those business trips probably were necessary in the 70’s, before the internet
and video conferencing.

But in 2019 I think most trips were more about corporate inertia than
practical need.

~~~
hkt
Also perks. I've had some fun trips to California that I suspect were not
entirely necessary - we'd have been fine if we could have just all shifted our
working days to overlap for a week or so.

------
samvaran
Basic question - where will all these 747s actually physically go to be
retired? Will there be a landfill somewhere with a huge amount of airplane
parts? Will they be left to rust in some hangar in the middle of nowhere?

~~~
jonahhorowitz
Most of them end up in dry desert areas in the southwest United States:
[https://www.airplaneboneyards.com/airplane-boneyards-list-
an...](https://www.airplaneboneyards.com/airplane-boneyards-list-and-map.htm)

~~~
Wowfunhappy
Huh—are these (presumably huge) areas guarded? Am I stupid for wondering
what's to stop a group from making off with a plane?

~~~
quickthrowman
Well, they don’t leave the keys in the ignition ;)

~~~
pirocks
As a random fun fact planes don't have keys.

~~~
Wowfunhappy
Do they have some other authentication mechanism instead?

~~~
plttn
The authentication method is knowing how to fly said plane and getting in said
plane in the first place.

The planes that are relatively accessible aren't flightworthy without effort,
and the planes that are flightworthy require violating federal law (in the US)
to access them.

~~~
gruez
>and the planes that are flightworthy require violating federal law (in the
US) to access them.

That doesn't really answer the question though. Breaking into a house also
violates laws, yet it happens all the time. If you've made it onto an airport
tarmac, can you just steal a plane?

~~~
stephen_g
It's logistically very difficult. Getting fuel into it usually takes a special
truck, so you'd need access to that (when a plane is parked overnight it would
have a little bit of fuel in it, but not enough to get very far after taking
off). Even getting into the plane is difficult - you'd need a stair truck, and
somebody to move the stairs out of the way when you're in. If it's parked
somewhere where you can't just taxi out, you need somebody in a tug to do a
pushback.

So assuming you're that far in, and you know how to start it up, you don't
have a flight plan logged, so the tower isn't going to give you clearance to
take off. If you take off without permission, they're going to call the air
force, so you'd better be in a country that doesn't have a very big air force
or a nearby base, and you probably want to choose somewhere where you can get
into another country's airspace who isn't friendly with the country you stole
the plane from...

~~~
grkvlt
it's easier than you might think. for example, on a 747 you don't need
external stairs, since access is available via the nose wheel landing gear bay
[0] according to a pilot.

0\. [https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/2605/can-
large-...](https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/2605/can-large-
airliners-be-operated-without-ground-support?rq=1#comment141427_2605)

------
afterburner
"the airline believes that the 747s are sustainable"

I guess they meant "aren't".

~~~
cockpitherald
That must be a typo I guess.

~~~
krallja
It certainly wasn’t the only typo in the article.

------
massysett
I don't understand the nostalgia for these planes. I see a big plane and I
think "cattle car." There's nothing nice about sitting in the middle section
of a huge wide-body plane, far from the luggage bin, far from the window, and
with the prospect of climbing over several people or waking them up so you can
go to the bathroom. It takes a long time to board and deplane them.

Moreover, as a passenger I want point-to-point air service at a convenient
time. This is possible with smaller airplanes. Big plane requires funneling
passengers to some big gateway airport so they can fill the gigantic plane.
That requires spending time in airports. Not interested.

If the nostalgia is that there's something elite about a big plane: Gordon
Gekko didn't fly around in a 747.

There's a reason these planes are obsolete. Planes like the 737 have
democratized air travel and made it affordable for everyone. That's a much
bigger achievement than the 747 will ever be. And I'll take the convenient
frequent long-distance service that narrow-body planes offer (US mainland to
Hawaii on a 737? Amazing!) over a 747 any day. A curving staircase on an
airplane just doesn't scream "cool" to me.

~~~
chrissnell
To experience them at their best, you have to fly international first class.
I've had the fortune of doing this a number of times on the 747. I've sat
upstairs (which is typically business class) and at the very front, which is
usually first class. It's fantastic. You have room to stretch and you're
treated very well.

Here are a few photos from my Lufthansa first class experience.

[https://www.instagram.com/p/B00TFMcHA4a/?igshid=caikqjatjldk](https://www.instagram.com/p/B00TFMcHA4a/?igshid=caikqjatjldk)

The photos are:

\- the famous rubber duckies from the Lufthansa First Class lounge in
Frankfurt. They have private bathrooms with full baths that you can use.

\- the obligatory outside-by-the-jet photo that you can take when they pick
you up in a luxury car on the tarmac (not that white one)

\- Seat 1K on a LH 747-800

\- The Porsche that they pick you up in when you're changing flights or going
to the lounge.

~~~
fyfy18
I flew business class with BA five years ago as it was cheaper than economy on
my usual airline at the time (EK) - mainly as it was a last minute booking. I
flew two intercontinental legs (Middle East -> Europe -> North America) and
both aircraft were on old 747s that looked like they hadn't been cleaned for a
week or more. The infotainment system felt just as old, with a choice of maybe
20 movies on the 8" display where the touch screen barely functioned. The lie
flat bed wasn't bad (they had an interesting layout where one seat faces
foward and the next faces backward), and the food was just regular reheated
meals with slightly nicer silverware than economy.

Now I understand some other airlines have better offerings than BA, and if you
fly first class (I think for the same flight it was roughly 8x more) it's
going to be a different story, but at the end of the day you are still just
flying A to B.

The best part was probably the lounge where I had the connection, but I only
had 1 1/2 hours so didn't get to experience it much. However it wasn't really
much more than a 4* hotel buffet.

If I could afford to drop $20k to fly first class whenever I feel like it,
would I? Probably. Do I feel like I'm missing out on anything by not doing
that? Nope.

How much more is it to fly in a private jet? I feel that would be a different
story, given you can schedule it so it picks you up whenever is convenient for
you.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
First class is on the way out on many international routes since all the
demand and money is in biz class. Ya, you can get your own private cabin with
big screen tv and full sized bed (on a Singapore 380 if they still fly those),
but most aren’t going to pay for it and are flying on an upgrade (business
class is full, bump someone to first!).

Business class is nice because you can sleep on a lie flat, which is the only
thing I care about on an 11 hour flight.

~~~
dzhiurgis
With Qatar you now can get your own suite in business.

Personally I hope I'll never have to fly across planet in economy, but also
wouldn't mind flying in bunk bed either. It's sitting up for 26-30 hours or so
that kills me.

~~~
Scoundreller
I’m looking forward to configurations where you can book a coffin to sleep in
for 6 hours on your flight once at altitude.

~~~
dzhiurgis
Air NZ announced theirs right at the start of the pandemic.

6 bunks are not going to be enough for 300-400 passengers tho.

------
philjohn
I last travelled on a BA 747 back in February - first time on the top deck in
Club World and despite being an old aircraft, the top deck is a pretty special
experience; it feels like a private jet, very few seats, excellent service.

Top deck on an A380, whilst a far more comfortable experience with the lower
noise and better air, doesn't quite compare.

------
bfrog
It's a bit sad but not unexpected. I rode on two 747 flight in my life, both
pretty memorable. Maybe the mourning for these planes is less about the planes
but the kinds of epic flights most people would hop on them for. I rode one
from LA to Auckland and back, as well as Chicago to London. Both very
memorable trips for me. I'd always choose to ride one when I could. There was
a sense of, maybe wrongly, safety in the jumbo having been around for so long,
carried so many people safely. Yes they crashed, but most often from what I
recall at no fault of the plane.

~~~
dwd
I flew on one of the early 747SP Sydney to Los Angeles flights in April 1984
which was only feasible because of this amazing aircraft. The London to Hong
Kong leg of that trip with a stop-over at Dubai and the amazing run into Kai
Tak airport was probably my most memorable flight.

------
ChuckMcM
Awesome time to buy a new private jet :-)

My understanding is that many (most?) airlines use a leasing company to "hold"
their physical inventory. If this is the case is this really just notice that
they are going to break all their leases?

I also wonder, given that the 747 has been EOL'd by Boeing as well, how much
one can recover by 'parting out' these 28 planes. Will they live on like the
DC-3 did as a 'third party' airline plane or are they just too big to be
useful in that way? Could make for a heck of a fire fighting fleet I suppose.

~~~
bretpiatt
You don't need to wonder, plenty of active used plane dealers, just like used
car dealers...

You can have your own 747 for $12.5M, flight hour operating costs not so
friendly.

[https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-
sale/810282...](https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-
sale/81028201/1991-boeing-747-400)

Alternatively, this one will run you $275M+ [https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-
zone/23001/qatari-royal-fli...](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-
zone/23001/qatari-royal-flight-747-8i-jumbo-jet-is-up-for-sale-and-yes-there-
are-interior-pictures)

~~~
ChuckMcM
Wow, tempting :-) I had no idea you could pick one up for under $20M.

~~~
m4rtink
I would assume all the other costs to fly one (ground equipment, certified
pilots and engineers, etc.) will dwarf that.

------
josefrichter
It's a good sign, in a way, that airlines have to quickly retire older
inefficient airplanes, and many could come out of this leaner and ultimately
stronger.

Managed to get one transatlantic Lufthansa 748 flight - horrible experience,
seats incredibly cramped. And one transatlantic Air France 388 - got middle
seat, but with wall in front = lot of legroom, + alcohol for free = overall
pleasant flight :-)

------
jonahhorowitz
I'm sad to see the Queen of the skies go. I do hope that I'll catch a ride on
a 747-8 before those get retired too.

~~~
toomuchtodo
[https://thepointsguy.com/news/these-are-the-last-
boeing-747s...](https://thepointsguy.com/news/these-are-the-last-
boeing-747s-you-can-fly-in-the-world/)

------
markplindsay
Remaining airlines with 747s in passenger service:

\- Air China

\- Air India

\- Asiana

\- China Airlines

\- Korean

\- Lufthansa

\- Rossiya

\- Thai

~~~
GrifMD
Lufthansa, Air China, and Korean Air all have newer 747-8i's too, for what
that's worth.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747-8#Operators](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747-8#Operators)

------
grogenaut
Ironically the 2 times I have flown either of the monster planes (747 or a380)
were from Salt Lake City to Jackson Hole, which is a ~25 minute flight. And
basically the shortest flight I've ever taken commercially, well that or
Cin->Louisville.

~~~
KMag
When you fly from SLC to JAC, you might have a skiing problem. (Queue the
"it's not a problem when you're awesome at it".)

~~~
grogenaut
I definitely have a skiing problem, it's the worst. It's not a problem when
your good at a thing that's fun that doesnt tear your acl like a piece of
string like snowboarding.

But coming from STL the good flights was fly to SLC and then hop in with
Delta. Seemed like a lot of places aggregated at a hub and took one giant
plane in a day.

------
tristor
I've flown internationally a LOT. My only time ever being on a 747 was on BA,
and it was really amazing being on a double-decker with the business lounge
area. The 747 is truly a remarkable plane, and one of the most comfortable
flights transatlantic flights I've ever been on. I'm sad to see it go. This
follows on the heels of Delta here in the US retiring the Mad Dogs (MD88 &
MD90) as well as their 777 fleet. Lots of shake-ups in the airline industry,
I'm not sure that all of them are good.

------
aaronbrethorst
Too bad. I’ve really enjoyed watching BA’s daily LHR to SEA flight come in
overhead around 5 or 6pm on weekdays. Sea-Tac doesn’t get too many 747s
despite its proximity to Boeing.

~~~
gms
Unfortunately actually being in a BA 747 is nowhere near as enjoyable. I'm
glad for this.

------
chrisseaton
I always wanted to fly upstairs in a 747, but they never flew on my routes. I
think also surprisingly it’s usually just normal business class up there, not
first?

~~~
JackFr
South African used to have coach upstairs when I flew it. New York to
Johannesburg was an amazing flight, I think it was 16 or so hours. Eventually
you’re just sitting there wondering how long can this thing fly?

~~~
lotsofpulp
That flight is brutal without sufficient entertainment. I’ve gotten bored of
everything I brought and time slows to a crawl.

------
rvz
This is unfortunate news for BA and its fleet and is reminiscent to the super-
sonic concorde days (Which I still miss). I'm a huge fan of Boom Supersonic to
take its place. Recently in the UK we lost two airliners to this pandemic,
Thomas Cook Airlines and Flybe both fell into the adminstrators.

I guess this looks like magnificent news to flight-shamers and climate-change
activists.

~~~
luxurytent
To be clear, Thomas Cook collapsed well before covid. The end[1] occurred on
September 23 2019.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Cook_Group#2019:_Final_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Cook_Group#2019:_Final_year_and_collapse)

------
DrJokepu
I will miss the BA Club World business class on the upper deck. It was one of
the more pleasant and relaxing ways of transatlantic travel.

~~~
iso1631
My wife flew out upstairs from Heathrow to Washington to join me for a short
break (I'd been working there for a week) in 2014, which was lovely.

We returned from Baltimore on a 767, immediate response "It's a bit shabby".
which even compared with a 747 was entirely accurate.

I still prefer flying out of Baltimore though, much nicer airport, and I seem
to get upgraded (either using miles or operational) every time. They've got
787s on the route now - was supposed to fly there this year just as the ban
was brought in.

------
ubermonkey
I've flown a lot domestically in my life, but because I live in the middle of
the US (Houston), I've almost NEVER been on a super large plane like a 747.
I'm kind of sad about that.

In the last few years I've been on a few big Airbus planes going to the
mideast or the UK; they're nice. But they're not the icons that the 747 was.

------
yardie
Some of the things I’ll miss about the 747:

The speed. They fly at 580mph cruising. The others are around 550mph. I
confirmed this in the IFE.

Cabin pressure. It was higher than the 777 and A380. It just felt better and
less headache inducing.

Upper deck. I’m going to miss club world. We travel as a family and it felt so
intimate being able to sit together and not packed in like tuna.

~~~
josefrichter
speed? seriously, you as a passenger have no chance to anyhow notice it or
benefit from it. the difference is so negligible, that it basically never has
any effect.

------
ivan1783
I was lucky enough to fly business on the top deck of a 747. I remember it
felt like driving a building down the runway compared to the A380, regardless
the 747 will always have a special place in my heart <3

------
rado
First sighting in “Die Hard 2”
[http://www.impdb.org/images/3/32/2016-01-03_03h54_43.jpg](http://www.impdb.org/images/3/32/2016-01-03_03h54_43.jpg)
Then flew it a few times. It’s a legend.

------
jesterson
Unfortunately the whole covid situation didn't allow me to have a first long-
planned flight on 747 right in April. I booked Qantas 747 just to feel the
experience...

Now is seems like there will be no 747 passenger flights anymore and even fate
of A380 is under huge question

------
switch007
This news story has interesting timing. It’s also got a long segment on the TV
news right now

It comes right after the leader of the opposition highlighted during PMQs that
BA have forced new, worse contracts on 30,000 staff

------
supernova87a
It's simple -- 2 engine widebodies are more efficient than the 747, and carry
less risk of being less than full. And airlines seem to have gotten tired of
maintaining 4 engines at a go, for some reason.

~~~
tamcap
4 engines = 2x the maintenance cost, even if you ignore the fuel. And 2x the
overhaul cost.

------
discordance
Qantas has also retired their 747s. They are going to be stored in some desert
area with low humidity, and eventually sold for parts.

This surprises me. Surely they could be sold or used at cargo planes?

~~~
missedthecue
How are they going to load cargo? Their nose doesnt tilt up like purpose built
cargo planes

~~~
karthikb
Side door:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747-400#747-400_Boeing_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747-400#747-400_Boeing_Converted_Freighter)

------
exabrial
Riding on a British airways 747 was one of the coolest experiences I ever had.
The entire cabin had first class level comfort. This will surely be missed.

------
ca_parody
Has the 747 transported to most human-distance (people * (km|miles)) of any
other make&model transportation machine? I would imagine so...

~~~
pirocks
I would guess it's actually the 737 or a320. Long haul flights are
significantly less common.

------
frandroid
And here I thought these would be the ideal planes with enough space for
proper physical distancing in pandemic times...

------
glaucon
The link to airlinegeeks.com is seting off a number of av warnings for me.

------
quantified
The 1959 Coupe DeVille of the air.

