
Ask HN: How real is the skill barrier for self-taught/bootcamp devs? - ccdev
Stories about self-taught devs or bootcamp devs that get into web development or mobile development are very common these days. While they may eventually coast well in those areas, they may probably find themselves unable to cut it anywhere else.<p>Someone can say self-taught people can break into the software industry with ease but I haven&#x27;t heard of cases where they shift focus to less common but still respected roles, for example, network programming, HFT, systems engineering or embedded programming. Is there a big skill barrier here? How hard would it be for a self-taught person to break that skill barrier and transition outside of web or mobile apps?
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gregjor
I wouldn't use the term "skill barrier." Any skilled job requires specific
skills and experience, obviously. You can acquire some skills, or at least get
started, in school, classes, bootcamps, and self-study. If you want to advance
or branch our you have to continue to acquire skills and experience, through
practice and study.

Every programmer started out with no skills and no experience, and most of
them advanced on their own, through practice, usually subsidized by a series
of employers.

Skill implies knowledge, ability, and practice. It doesn't mean casual
familiarity, reading about something in a book, or taking a class; those can
start someone on the path but aren't usually sufficient. A bootcamp graduate
with no prior programming experience doesn't possess actual skills. They have
motivation, potential, and just enough knowledge to persuade an employer to
take a chance on them, in hopes that the cost of imparting skills and
experience will be offset by profits derived from labor. Employees who cost
more than they contribute wash out.

Programmers who already have multiple skills and years of experience can pick
up new things quickly from books, web sites, classes because they have a
mental framework of related concepts to hang new things on. New programmers
don't have that, everything looks fragmented and challenging.

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ccdev
Most of your statements have been truisms but I'd like to see some concrete
examples of self-taught or bootcamp devs moving out of web dev to a radically
different field in software. Specifically in things that require an
understanding of high performance, critical or real time software. These jobs
usually have a higher barrier to entry, but you can still learn them on your
own. It was discouraging to hear from a couple people that it's a big "nope"
for self taught devs to take these jobs and that they should become a less
risky hire by getting a traditional CS education. But that's just been without
any examples of why.

~~~
gregjor
I don't have any concrete examples. The bootcamp grads I've met are all
working in web dev with fairly limited skills.

Coming at it another way, many of the programmers I've known who work in areas
like embedded, high performance, real time, etc. were self-taught, mostly on
the job. By that I mean they had some programming/technical expertise and
worked someplace that gave them the opportunity to expand their skills through
mentoring and real projects. I'm a self-taught developer and I've learned all
of my skills that way. But I didn't start with a bootcamp or web development
-- I started 40 years ago on mainframes.

I think it's more a matter of time and exposure. I learned high-end computer
graphics and mapping/GIS on the job at an oil exploration company that hired
me to do traditional business/database stuff but needed people to learn their
other systems. I had to learn all kinds of math and new programming skills but
I had patient, experienced mentors and the opportunity to work on real
systems. I can't imagine learning all of that on my own, from books and online
videos, or at a bootcamp, but everyone has different abilities and background.

tl;dr I don't think going from a web dev bootcamp to a significantly different
or more demanding technical domain is impossible, but it will take a long
time, a lot of work, and the right environment. A CS degree would provide a
better conceptual framework to base new skills on than knowing HTML, CSS, and
Javascript, for sure. The bootcamp model and mentality -- zero to $100K in six
months -- works for web dev for some people because demand is high and you
don't need a lot of high-end skills to build sites from templates or hook APIs
up. The companies that hire bootcamp grads generally have experienced
developers and a process to bring green people up to speed and let them
advance.

