
Edward Snowden says he didn't cooperate with Russian intelligence services - known
https://www.npr.org/2019/09/19/761918152/exiled-nsa-contractor-edward-snowden-i-haven-t-and-i-won-t-cooperate-with-russia
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duxup
I'm not sure he would have a choice if asked to, nor would he be allowed to
say anything else.

He still could be correct, but his status makes it hard to simply believe what
he says outright.

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everdev
Something is really bizarre here on both sides.

Russia has a track record of intimidating or killing journalists and political
activists and has an aggressive anti-spy program. It's really hard to believe
the official narrative that a former NSA employee with technical skills and
security clearance shows up in Russia and after he refused to cooperate they
"didn't know what to do with him" so they left him alone. I find it hard to
believe they don't have someone tracking him 24/7.

The US was fighting tooth and nail to get Snowden extradited in the early days
of his escape. After that their strongest public statements have been
encouraging him to "repatriate and defend himself in court" which they know
he's not going to do.

The more likely scenario seems that the US and Russia are already getting what
they want from Snowden or are perhaps simply negotiating the price of his
return with the US acting like they don't care and Russia calling their bluff
by letting him make public appearances.

~~~
duxup
I think it is possible the US "doesn't care" to the extent that they're not
going to bother with someone who is generally out of reach beyond some extra
ordinary measures that they're not willing to expend on someone like Snowden.

US intelligence agencies generally hunting down every last spy or leaker is
just not a thing historically. They have "given up" on such people to the
extent that they don't take extra ordinary measures many many times in the
past.

Russia has done the same, or at least did regularly during the cold war.
Recent history is a bit different and difficult to compare though with Russia
as the motivations and who is in charge of what security service do not all
appear to be aligned for any given person.

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vasilipupkin
it's possible, of course, but I rate this as a very unlikely scenario that
Russian security services would have failed to induce him to cooperate at
least to some extent or in some way during all this time.

~~~
PhasmaFelis
I'm not sure what they'd need him to cooperate with. He already gave up all
the sensitive information he had.

But I suppose he has been reluctant to openly condemn Russia's own human
rights abuses. That could be simple self-preservation, or he could have been
threatened.

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avmich
US judicial system is far from perfect. In this case it seems to be too
dependent on intelligence services declaring Snowden un-judgeable. That, I
think, caused the flight.

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GVIrish
Eh I think Snowden rightly figured that he would have had a hard time
prevailing in court based on his situation. Intelligence agencies can't just
say, "this guy doesn't get a trial". It's just that a trial would have been
hard for him to win.

To use whistleblower protections, he would've had to go through official
channels. But doing so would have made it likely that his concerns would be
quashed and that he would've faced retaliatory action. Previous NSA
whistleblowers didn't fare well.

So with that defense out the window, he would've had to hope a jury would not
find him guilty because of what he was attempting to expose. The government
would have argued that he stole classified materials and that he signed oaths
that he would protect classified materials under penalty of law. They would
argue he should be convicted of this theft, whether or not his intentions were
noble.

That would have been a big gamble to take in court, because if he lost he
would've been looking at a long, long time in jail. He could've made a plea
deal, but again, a good amount of jail time.

~~~
avmich
> To use whistleblower protections, he would've had to go through official
> channels. But doing so would have made it likely that his concerns would be
> quashed and that he would've faced retaliatory action. Previous NSA
> whistleblowers didn't fare well.

That's - logically - the point of his defence. Since Snowden can plausibly
argue that he couldn't go through official channels - and his proof is
previous cases - he doesn't have a choice other than going around them. The
perceived interests of American public - which are for grand jury to
determine, IMO - require, in case when there is no regular way, to do it
"irregularly". Otherwise the law breakers - the intelligence services - go
uncorrected.

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leftyted
Cooperating or not, by being in Russia, he's helping Russia, which is why
Russia has agreed to put him up.

I think that -- had he faced the music -- he'd be out of jail by now and
considered a hero by most Americans. I don't blame him for avoiding
imprisonment (I doubt I'd have done differently) but I do think he made the
wrong choice. There's a reason the stories of Socrates and Jesus have endured.

Please note: I'm not saying that he deserved punishment. I'm saying that
submitting himself before unjust punishment would have been the correct choice
with respect to achieving his stated goals.

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notafraudster
What's the argument to support the claim he'd have served a 5 year jail
sentence only? Reality Winner, who leaked far fewer documents in a far less
damaging way several years after Snowden's leak and who had not become a real
political football, got 5 years in a plea bargain. Chelsea Manning got 35
years commuted to 7. We know Obama wouldn't have commuted Snowden -- and at
any rate the Obama pardon of Manning seemed as much about the human rights
issue of a transgender woman in military prison receiving fairly poor
treatment -- but even if we assume Snowden would have gotten commuted at 7
years he'd still be in jail.

Ending a claim that starts with "He'd be out of jail by now" with "He'd have a
better reputation if like these other two guys he let himself get executed"
also makes it a little hard to reconcile.

~~~
leftyted
> We know Obama wouldn't have commuted Snowden -- and at any rate the Obama
> pardon of Manning seemed as much about the human rights issue of a
> transgender woman in military prison receiving fairly poor treatment -- but
> even if we assume Snowden would have gotten commuted at 7 years he'd still
> be in jail.

We don't know that. If Snowden had handled his situation differently from day
one, he very well could have been pardoned. It all hinges on the American
public's perception of him, which is today largely negative (HN is an
outlier). My sense is that Americans would have approved of his actions had he
made his case in a court room.

But we're both just speculating about events that didn't happen.

> Ending a claim that starts with "He'd be out of jail by now" with "He'd have
> a better reputation if like these other two guys he let himself get
> executed" also makes it a little hard to reconcile.

I made two separate claims. The first is that I think there's a reasonable
chance he'd have been pardoned or avoided significant jail time had he not
fled.

But the second doesn't depend on the first. Even if he hadn't been pardoned,
Snowden would be a more effective symbol of the misuse of state power from an
American jail than he is today in Russia. I understand that's quite a
sacrifice and, like I said, I don't "blame him" for fleeing. I'm just stating
my opinion that he'd have been a more effective advocate had he not fled.

Ghandi, Mandella, King, Suu Kyi all did time. There's a reason Letter from
Birmingham Jail is so powerful.

~~~
tekkk
I felt opposed to your argument that staying would have been better for him.
His and our visibility what the outcome would have been is near zero. He would
have been in prison, but how long - no one can say. A smart person wouldnt bet
on such unsure thing.

But what you said about the human rights activists, i completely agree. Had he
stayed i'm sure he would have had a much greater legacy. But to willingly
decide to go to prison and leave the normal life, your girlfriend, your
hobbies behind for indeterminate amount of time. A tough decision to make.
Speaks volumes about how a story like Jesus would spin an entire religion
around it. Cant blame him for the decision he made. He already gave up a lot
when he blew the whistle and to give up even more for idealism's sake? We see
it in movies, but when it actually happens to you..

------
avryhof
Putin: Hold my Vodka

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systematical
It's in Russia's best interest to make him complicit in espionage. They then
hold dirt on him. A potential vicious cycle for an otherwise patriotic
individual. I'm team snowden.

