
Web Developers Can’t Sell. Sorry. - hackerbob
http://www.michellesblog.net/marketing-for-the-web/web-developers-cant-sell-sorry
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KevBurnsJr
I would never tell a salesperson he/she can't code just because he/she is a
salesperson.

That would be a foolish over-generalization.

~~~
tptacek
I think she's right. But she's not saying anything 100 other posts haven't
tried to pound into our heads.

~~~
joe_the_user
She's not "right", She's just coasting on a generalization. If I say
"physicists can't surf", I can probably find twenty examples to prove it but
it will still be a ridiculous generalization.

~~~
michellegreer1
The best physicists probably can't surf.

I'd be shocked if a professional surfer could tell me much about physics.

Just because you can, it doesn't mean you necessarily should. I'm a lot more
effective as a marketer when I am selling someone else's code versus something
I could scrap together.

~~~
nir
Garrett Lisi is a pretty good surfer/physicist:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antony_Garrett_Lisi>

~~~
christofd
nice find! amazing guy.

~~~
diN0bot
this is exactly why stereotypes and generalizations are a disservice to
everyone. there are times when statistics are applicable, eg making business
decisions based on market research. maybe it is even relevant when deciding
what to write about. however, it is complete baloney when it comes to making a
judgment about individuals. For that matter, it makes for a stupid, black-and-
white, controversial blog post title...which i suppose is the point.

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byrneseyeview
I've found that the opposite is true. It is much easier for a tech person to
learn selling than for a salesperson to learn technology -- and it's a whole
lot easier to sell if you _start_ by knowing what you're selling, and then
build a case around that.

This piece is surprisingly fluffy. Of the five bullet points, the first is a
cliché, and the second are so obvious that they haven't even reached that
status.

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SapphireSun
I would really love to see more marketing articles on HN. There's a sweet spot
for us hackers who aren't in a situation where we are ready to hire anyone and
would like to know more about marketing to cement their plans. By us I mean me
of course.

~~~
michellegreer1
Good for SEO Knowledge: @mattcutts, @dannysullivan, SEObook.com,
searchengineland.com

Good for Social Media: @mashable, @readwriteweb, @jowyang, @adamostrow,
@tamar, <http://www.chrisbrogan.com>

Overall marketing: @adage

Software marketing: @asmartbear

PR: @haro, @joshdilworth, @skydiver, @briansolis

I hope this is a good starting point for you. :D

~~~
SapphireSun
Wow! Thank you so much!

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mr_eel
This is actually some good solid advice, for _anyone_ selling software.

But I look poorly on the use of link-bait titles. It's deceptive and
ultimately annoying, particularly when it employs a generalisation.

After all, there are a myriad of different people involved in the development
of a site. Many stake-holders and many opportunities for mistakes and
misunderstandings. The basic point is this; there are many reasons why a site
doesn't do as good a job of selling as it could. Blaming it on web-devs alone
and their perceived inability to sell is horse-pucky. Frankly, most web-devs
aren't employed to sell, they're employed to make things. Why should they cop
it?

~~~
michellegreer1
This post was actually directed in a passive aggressive way to a couple of
developers who employed me, only to completely ignore the countless usability
and best practices studies I cited. It was months of pure pain.

The simple truth is, I COMPLETELY VALUE web developers because the work they
do keeps me employed. I don't code, but I also expect that they value the
experience I bring to the table as a marketer as well. This post is
essentially a way of saying, "I don't tell you how to code, so please trust me
to do my job."

~~~
felipe
I agree with mr_eel. Your message is good but it would have been much more
effective if you have used a less condescending tone.

Good web developers DO VALUE the importance of marketing and sales. I think we
have a lot to learn from you, but with this kind of post you are helping to
alienate developers.

Please don't take me wrong, that's just my humble opinion on the matter.

~~~
michellegreer1
Well, I'm sorry. That was most certainly not what I wanted to do. I actually
like developers a lot, and was just a bit frustrated because the developers I
was working with at the time were incredibly arrogant. It's a total bummer
when you spend your time reading up on marketing best practices and some jerk
tells you that Forrester's or Nielsen studies on marketing don't mean
anything.

I didn't intend for this post to get to the top of Hacker News. I should be
more careful next time.

~~~
mr_eel
Just to reiterate, I totally agree with your points.

Also, I perfectly understand your frustration. I've had some opportunity to
see the issue from both sides and it's unfortunate when someone refuses to see
the value in your work.

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dmillar
Yes, this is called specialization of labor. Plato wrote about it. Good
advice, but something any hacker with a lick of business acumen already knows.

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mstevens
One thing that annoys me about sales people sometimes is that they always talk
about "know your audience", but they'll almost never go "this is a technical
audience, we need to talk in terms that technical people will respond to".

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fjabre
'Web developers' should be replaced with 'Engineers' and yes, for the most
part, engineers aren't known for their marketing skills.

And as much as this is drilled into our heads over and over again: keep it
coming. It's all too easy to forget the fundamentals..

Point #1: "Lead with benefits, not with features." was great.

~~~
nzmsv
Actually, this "point 1" is my pet peeve. I hate it when shopping for computer
parts. In fact, I think most web stores overdo the "explanation of benefits".

Every single web store has pages upon pages of meaningless marketing speak on
every product page, and the tech specs are either: a) at the very bottom, in
small font, b) under a separate tab, or c) broken, inaccessible, and
unreadable.

When I have to go to a third-party review site to find out what the resolution
of a monitor is or whether the netbook I'm looking at has an extra RAM socket,
I can't exactly call this a good shopping experience.

~~~
SapphireSun
I can see why though. The focus of the selling company is to move material. If
they provide tech specs, then they are competing on features, which won't
provide the same profit cushion as warm feelings most of the time.

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michaelcampbell
She doesn't sound the least bit sorry.

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NikkiA
She fails to heed point 2 herself - know your audience.

While management is more likely to write a purchase order for salespeak driven
marketing than developerspeak driven marketing, if you're aiming at developers
that might not be so true.

I'm less likely to buy, or ask for a purchase order for, an online source
management system, for example, if it lists 'why we're so great', rather than
features. As a developer, I would be looking for the feature set not some
bullet-point buzzword list.

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xcombinator
I disagree, I know people who is a "natural" with other people, without
studying and have technical skills too. People like them, and buy from them.

Working in the industry I met a guy who was a very good mechanic, but really
good with people. He started selling products while he worked as a mechanic.
He become rich, and he didn't wanted to sell!!! People trusted him because
they knew he was not going to trick them.

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cschwarm
I wish someone would write "Web Designers Can't Sell", for that's probably a
more useful reminder for many people who offer goods via a web page.

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speby
Yep. Classic stereotype and headline generation of an over-generalization to
grab attention. Though she's wrong, she's right _some of the time_.

That said, it probably means she herself isn't too bad at marketing since,
after all, it certainly grabbed quite the attention span here (and exactly the
sort of crowd that would benefit from the knowledge she has shared).

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tiffani
Yup...sounds like this from @rishi.
[http://gettingmoreawesome.blogspot.com/2009/10/examples-
arou...](http://gettingmoreawesome.blogspot.com/2009/10/examples-around-web-
of-focusing-on.html) (There's examples here, at least.)

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quellhorst
I am a coder and I can sell and know plenty of others who can. Learning to
sell is much easier than learning to code.

~~~
atkuebler
I am a salesman/marketer and know how to code. It isn't learning to do the
other that is hard, learning to code wasn't hard. It is becoming highly
skilled in one or the other that is what takes time and is difficult.

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omouse
Ugh marketing.

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c00p3r
<http://heroku.com/>

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Gilson_Silveira
Well, I know a handless woman that can write using her feets. Knowing that, I
don't understand why a developer can't learn how to sell and vice-versa.

