
First sustainable Lego pieces to go on sale - vs2
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/mar/02/first-sustainable-lego-pieces-to-go-on-sale?
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ars
> polyethylene – a soft, durable and flexible plastic that can now be made
> with ethanol extracted from sugar cane material and, Lego claims, is as
> durable as conventional plastic. As a bio-plastic, it can be recycled many
> times, though it is unlikely to be 100% biodegradable.

As a bio-plastic? polyethylene? What different does it make if your atoms were
cycled through a living plant, or a dead plant in the ground (oil)?

From a chemistry point of view it makes no difference.

This is 100% greenwashing, and it relies on gullible reporters not to call
them out on their nonsense.

You can make polyethylene from _air_. Are we calling it atmo-plastic now?

~~~
typetypetype
Because atoms that come from a renewable resource that can be sourced locally
are preferred over atoms from non-renewable resources that come from distant
lands.

~~~
ars
Why? What difference does it make? We don't have a shortage of atoms.

From your reply and others I can see why they did this. People actually
believe it makes a difference.

The environment is doomed. I'm sorry, but if people can't even tell the
difference between something that helps the environment, and something that
makes no difference, then I don't see how we'll ever make things better.

~~~
bllguo
This is just absurdly overdramatic and frankly, insufferable. Why do you
expect the general public and media reporters to know offhand about polymer
chemistry? Why does their lack of this knowledge doom the environment?

You had a chance to amicably and clearly educate others about the misleading
connotations of the term "bioplastic" and instead you launched into some kind
of weird tirade. This is why society needs better science communicators.

~~~
ars
Weird tirade? It might be tirade, but it's not weird. I'm just tired of people
claiming "I'm green", while actually being worse for the environment.

> Why does their lack of this knowledge doom the environment?

Because people change their behavior based on what they find out. So it
_looks_ like legos are now "better" for the environment, because the plastic
touched a plant.

But not only does it not make a difference, it's actually _worse_ for the
environment.

It reminds me of when BMW used hydropower to make electricity to each ovens
for carbon fiber manufacturing.

[https://www.alternative-energies.net/bmw-produces-carbon-
fib...](https://www.alternative-energies.net/bmw-produces-carbon-fiber-using-
renewable-energy/)

Guess what? That's _worse_ for the environment! Electricity is a very
inefficient way to heat things. Save that electricity for where it's needed
and heat your ovens with natural gas.

Instead someone else is making electricity with natural gas, and the total
environmental impact is _higher_. But then of course BMW doesn't get to
falsely claim "we're green".

> Why do you expect the general public and media reporters to know offhand
> about polymer chemistry?

I expect the reporter to ask a chemist. Go check and see if Lego's claim holds
any water.

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jagger27
It's hard to fault Lego for using fossil fuels to make their ABS bricks. The
bricks just don't get thrown out and they are kept out of landfills and held
onto for decades. I'm sure by 2030 they'll find sustainable precursors for
their ABS production line.

~~~
konschubert
In fact, by turning it into plastics, aren't they effectively preventing the
carbon from being oxidized and released into the atmosphere?

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juanmirocks
Regardless of whether this is greenwashing or not, I congratulate Lego for
being always on top of innovation. They now hop on the train of environment-
friendly and win good publicity with it. They are constantly reinventing
themselves.

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M_Bakhtiari
I'm skeptical of PE as a substitute for ABS for the application. It would be
interesting to see if someone more familiar with the process could weigh in.

~~~
ghostbrainalpha
I wish they would focus these on the Duplo Lego sets for Toddlers.

A Lego death star built by an adult might need to last twenty years. But a
Toddler plays with a Duplo set for maximum of two years, they lose most of the
pieces, and if they break it isn't _that_ big a deal.

Then they move on to more permanent durable lego sets.

~~~
ars
> But a Toddler plays with a Duplo set for maximum of two years

Do you actually have Toddlers when you say that? They play with them till age
7, and often even later.

And do families have just 1 kid now? Do people not give toys away to grandkids
or just friends?

~~~
stevbov
Yeah, our 6 year old niece plays with our 2 year old's Duplos. Duplos we got
for free from a mommy group on Facebook.

Also, I'm pretty sure our toddler would have a breakdown if a Duplo broke.

~~~
ghostbrainalpha
Agreed... but doesn't your toddler have a breakdown about everything, all the
time?

Our life is just jumping from crisis, to the next distraction every 15 minutes
no matter what.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Agreed... but doesn't your toddler have a breakdown about everything, all
> the time?

Mine doesn't, and I'm not looking to gratuitously introduce new sources of
breakdowns.

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hsivonen
Has the ABS for the usual non-flexible bricks changed in a documented way over
the years? White bricks from the 1980s get yellowish, but white bricks from
the 1990s don't. Current bricks seem shinier and have a bit different feel
than bricks from the 1990s (even ones that aren't particularly worn).

~~~
jonathankoren
I think you just need to wait, or expose them to more sunlight. The actual
yellowing is due to a flame retardant.[0]

[0] [http://www.instructables.com/id/Restoring-yellowed-
Stormtroo...](http://www.instructables.com/id/Restoring-yellowed-Stormtrooper-
armor/)

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acd
Producing sugar cane uses a lot of water and draws a lot of nutrients from the
soil.

WWF information on sugar cane production.
[https://www.worldwildlife.org/industries/sugarcane](https://www.worldwildlife.org/industries/sugarcane)

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bradleyjg
A little off topic, but I recently found out that you essentially can't buy
plain old legos+ anymore. I wanted to buy some as a gift and I ended up having
to buy knock offs because the lego company effectively doesn't sell them
anymore.

\+ I.e. full height 2x2, 2x3, 2x4

~~~
ghostbrainalpha
Is this what you are looking for from Toy's R Us?

[https://www.toysrus.com/product?productId=45199456&source=CA...](https://www.toysrus.com/product?productId=45199456&source=CAPLA_DF:45199456:TRUS&cagpspn=plat_123169BE&camp=PLAPPCG-
_-
PID123169BE:TRUS&gclid=Cj0KCQiAieTUBRCaARIsAHeLDCQL_R0M1h-e5mDcriTIqIesKUMQKUDxRjuf8xQoaEYoyjVca6-0zNIaAhplEALw_wcB)

~~~
bradleyjg
That's the closest I found, but it still has plenty of wheels, doors, windows,
half height pieces, round pieces, eyes, knobs, flat on top pieces, etc, etc,
etc. The child I was buying for has some sets like that, but I wanted to buy
just a large number of regular lego blocks for freeform play. I couldn't find
anything on their website like that other than individually picking out single
blocks.

~~~
Avshalom
Pretty sure that's never actually been a thing.

~~~
ghostbrainalpha
The Lego Store near me has bins separated by color. You can buy as many pieces
as you need of each size. Kind of like how you buy bulk candy or nuts at Whole
Foods.

~~~
mcphage
For the price they charge for that, though, they'd be better off buying one of
the creative line boxes and throwing out all of the non-rectangular pieces.
Which would be dumb to do, but apparently they want those pieces and none
others.

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lykahb
I have fond memories about building stuff with Lego and still remember what
they were about. Depending on how this change is reflected in the themes of
the Lego sets, it could have more positive environmental impact from educating
kids about sustainability than from the direct changes of manufacturing
process. More people who prefer sustainable choices over disposable plastics
will make a difference.

~~~
agumonkey
They could make a recycling plant set :)

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beavis2
I'm guessing it's cheaper. Why else would they?

