
Under military rule, Venezuela oil workers quit in a stampede - tomohawk
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-oil-workers-insight/under-military-rule-venezuela-oil-workers-quit-in-a-stampede-idUSKBN1HO0H9
======
montrose
This must have been what it was like in the late Roman Empire, when successive
emperors tried to stave off decline by decreeing how the economy would work.

~~~
eesmith
Many countries have "tried to stave off decline by decreeing how the economy
would work." Including the US.

Eg,
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incomes_policy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incomes_policy)
.

In the US, Truman placed the railroad under US military control in 1950, and I
recall at least threats of having military take over coal mines both in the US
and UK, because of worker strikes.

~~~
montrose
What Venezuela has in common with the late Empire is that economic controls
are pervasive, without the sort of punitive completeness you'd find in the
USSR, or China under Mao. While few controls works, and being a police state
sort of works (if there are free-market economies whose products you can
copy), this middle strategy doesn't work well at all.

~~~
HenryBemis
> this middle strategy doesn't work well at all

I will translate your suggestion like this:

-Either be a full-on dictatorship OR

-Be a modern democratic state

~~~
ekianjo
And thats basically what we have in the world in terms of relatively stable
regimes. Nothing in between.

~~~
coldtea
If "stable" merely means "persisting over time", then all kinds of between
regimes have been very stable...

~~~
ekianjo
Such as what kind of regimes?

~~~
infinite8s
China is in the middle.

~~~
ekianjo
China has only been in the middle for very, very short time. Let's see where
they are 50 years from now.

------
swarnie_
When this eventually falls apart which superpower is going to own the country?
USA, China or Russia?

Who has the most influence here?

~~~
roymurdock
Whoever owns the most Venezuelan debt:

 _Q. Who are the major holders of Venezuela and PDVSA bonds?

A. These securities are popular among funds that invest in emerging market
bonds. Their high yields - which are close to 10 times higher than those of
neighboring Colombia - help increase the overall profitability of the
portfolios.

Institutional investors with big holdings include T Rowe Price Associates Inc
(TROW.O), Ashmore Investment Management Ltd (AGOL.L), and BlackRock Investment
Management Ltd (BLK.N).

Q. What would be the consequences for Venezuela of default?

A. Creditors could seek to seize assets Venezuela owns in other countries,
including refineries such as those operated by PDVSA’s U.S. refining and
marketing subsidiary Citgo._

Article also discusses role of chinese and russian financing

[https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-bonds-
q-a/implic...](https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-bonds-
q-a/implications-of-venezuelas-proposed-foreign-debt-restructuring-
idUKKBN1D3250)

------
gaius
The silence from Jeremy Corbyn is deafening

~~~
swarnie_
Because its not real socialism.

~~~
duncan_bayne
Which is why socialists around the world mourned Chavez' election at the time,
right? /s

Venezuela, like Cuba, North Korea, China and the USSR were feted by socialists
the world over, right up until their failings (often in the form of millions
of people starving to death) became visible to the world.

Then of course they ceased being _real_ socialists.

~~~
pavlov
It’s the other way around: the vast majority of socialists never “feted”
Chavez, but your strawman argument depends on the premise that those people
are not real socialists.

~~~
duncan_bayne
Come off it. Socialist groups were still fawning over him and his "success" as
late as 2013.

[http://www.socialistinternational.org/viewArticle.cfm?Articl...](http://www.socialistinternational.org/viewArticle.cfm?ArticleID=2202)

Not all, of course. Socialism is a broad camp. But _many_.

 _Edit_ : and in fact they're still at it in Australia, where I live:

[https://www.greenleft.org.au/content/venezuela-solidarity-
gr...](https://www.greenleft.org.au/content/venezuela-solidarity-grows-
australia)

 _Edit_ :... and how about Castro? Is he your idea of a real socialist?
[https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/hugo-chavez-and-fidel-
castro...](https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/hugo-chavez-and-fidel-castro-a-
father-son-bond-until-death-515293)

------
pista
Meanwhile we're complaining about open floor offices.

"You're posting too fast, please slow down"... for an hour. OK, let's make it
a year.

~~~
dazc
Fair comment but if enough people complain about open floor offices it might
actually make a difference (eventually).

With Venezuela, what can we actually do that's going to change anything?

~~~
throwaway84742
Abolish socialism?

~~~
simonh
Because outlawing a political movement supported by millions of citizens has
always worked so well?

My country, the UK, has been ruled by socialists for two fifths of my lifetime
and we're doing fine. OK, so the 70s were pretty bad, but it's not like Chavez
is the ideal socialist leader, any more than Batista and Pinochet are the
ideal republicans.

~~~
throwaway84742
Ah, the good old “it’s not real socialism” argument.

~~~
ekianjo
Yeah its like there is never any real socialism, even though something like 20
different countries with different cultural backgrounds have been at it. And
following pretty much to the letter what Marx intended. Yet some folks refuse
to see facts for what they are.

~~~
ulzeraj
Its about time for people to realize that it’s a broken complex system which
relies on unhealthy controls over economy and actually empowers corruption and
opression it claims to oppose. And I suspect that is the case since most
discussions nowadays are based at the moral level rather than economics.

~~~
ekianjo
>And I suspect that is the case since most discussions nowadays are based at
the moral level rather than economics.

It's pretty obvious why. Communism/Socialism has failed big time in economics,
in an unmistakable way, so the only ground left to fight is on
philosophy/morals. But even then there's ample evidence this leads to bad
outcomes, no matter how good intentions one starts with.

------
zeth___
Venezuela will surely fall apart any day now. American economists have said
every day since 1999.

~~~
simonh
Venezuela has fallen apart, both economically and socially. This is what a
country that has fallen apart looks like.

~~~
zeth___
Much like the child that cried wolf, calls that Venezuela is doomed any day
now, have lost all potency. If the media hadn't discredited themselves in the
00's with the coverage of how terrible the place was we could actually believe
them today. Unfortunately going from "it's hell on Earth" in 2004 to "it's
hell on earth for reals this time" doesn't inspire confidence in the message.

~~~
pp19dd
Eight years ago I was on a commuter train from DC to Baltimore and a strange
woman sat next to me and started asking all sorts of questions about the train
and Baltimore. By strange, I meant that she was talking: no one talks on a
commuter train, we're all zombies. Turns out she was from Venezuela and was
visiting her young niece being treated at Johns Hopkins after being severely
injured by a family pet down there.

Let that sink in for a moment. Child was injured in Venezuela, and Kaiser flew
her all the way up to JH in Baltimore for treatment back in 2010. The
Venezuelan family, obviously on the affluent side back in those days, had
purchased a health insurance policy made available from Panama because they
felt the socialized health care system run by Venezuela was grossly
inadequate, and as they discovered, it was.

Fast forward to today and you have two major government-run systems collapsing
beyond recovery. First one is oil- state income is beyond a systemic collapse:
oil workers simply don't have enough calories to work the actual jobs. There
had been a longstanding incentive to work in the oil field because there were
oil cafeterias feeding the workers and they've now run out of supplies to
sustain that. Now, oil workers are fleeing in unrecoverable numbers. Latest
news here is that the military has taken over policing this function out of
desperation. The second system is healthcare.

These are old articles (hospital one is two years old) but very germane to the
discussion. Beyond a soft paywall, so open in incognito windows. Also steel
yourself before looking at the photo gallery, as outdated as it is.

1: [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-02-22/hungry-
ve...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-02-22/hungry-venezuelan-
workers-are-collapsing-so-is-the-oil-industry)

2: [https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/16/world/americas/dying-
infa...](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/16/world/americas/dying-infants-and-
no-medicine-inside-venezuelas-failing-hospitals.html)

So what's happening now? Venezuela stopped paying its debts and is in default.
Foreign embassies are closing and leaving the country due to instability.
Official currency has cratered to a point of you needing a dump truck of cash
to pay for a loaf of bread, if you can find it, so black market currencies are
being used for transactions instead. Elites running the country are messaging
that everything is fine and pitching some make-believe cryptocurrency tied to
a physical oil barrel (which they won't be able to produce with the oil
industry labor drain) as a way to save the country. Venezuelan citizens have
fled in vast numbers (Colombia by way of Miami Herald alone estimates
600-800k, wiki entry has it at 4 million), and though that effect slowed the
food crisis from worsening in mere places, overall effect is unstoppable
because neighboring countries are tightening the borders. I didn't even get to
mention rising violence and neighbors fighting over contents of garbage cans.

I just don't see how you can call this an exaggeration. Venezuelan government
cronies couldn't squander the money fast enough fifteen years ago, and here's
the end-result of their mismanagement.

