
Getting things done - ingve
http://jvns.ca/blog/2016/09/19/getting-things-done/
======
vcool07
IMO, more than motivation, more than all the tip/tricks/productivity hacks,
the one thing that keeps a person going for long periods of time is sheer
discipline. When you make something a part of your daily routine, irrespective
of the external/internal stimuli, you just keep at it. Not because there's
some mega reward at the end of it, not because you're passionate about it, but
just because you are "used to it" ! I think this was brilliantly explained by
Scott Adams in his Goals vs Systems article. Instead of looking for
motivation/passion and stuff, try to build a system / discipline around what
you want to learn / want to be. Rest everything follows automatically. Even if
it doesn't give immediate results, a system just doesn't stop, it keeps going
!

~~~
askafriend
I generally agree with your sentiment to an extent but let me also play
devil's advocate:

Whittling your entire life down to process makes you almost robotic and strips
you of creativity, spontaneity, and just....that je ne sais quoi of life. It's
just too boring.

As always, it's a balance and depends on context. Gymtime? Make it a process.
Hanging out with friends? Yeah...don't schedule that in your calendar. Just go
hang out with them.

~~~
moron4hire
I fundamentally disagree that process prevents creativity in any way. On the
contrary, I think creativity _requires_ process. The idea that creativity is
just something that "comes" to you is an extremely harmful myth.

~~~
askafriend
I fundamentally disagree that creativity requires process. Creativity requires
inspiration and the most common analogy that I think people use to drive this
point home is children at play.

~~~
jwdunne
Creativity requires both.

You have a problem to solve. You first spend time understanding the problem.
This process continues until you understand the problem.

You then start to turn potential solutions over in your head. Lots of research
and thought required - this includes inspiration. You must feed your brain.
You continue this process indefinitely until...

Epiphany. A special kind of inspiration. You come across something unrelated
and your mind connects it to the problem. Ideas in the shower are a typical
example. The epiphany gives you a rush - out of nowhere you have the solution.

Creativity is a process where inspiration is a key part. They don't have to be
exclusive.

~~~
gcr
Creativity is applicable to scenarios in which there is no problem to solve.
What about undirected creative play?

~~~
ace_of_spades
There is always a problem to solve and there is always process, we simply
don't tend to notice it because we take it as a given (i.e.,
evolution/survival).

~~~
gcr
What objective function is a four-year-old maximizing when pretending to be
Batman with friends?

~~~
ace_of_spades
I don't think a kid would be intentionally optimizing anything in this
situation. So if you mean that creativity is not only a tool to be used
conciously, I agree.

I just mean I think it's difficult to argue that anything we humans do can be
viewed as anything else but problem solving.

So in the case of the kid there might be millions of direct reasons (e.g.,
boredom > want to solve that), but I think it would still be possible to map
any of them to some form of problem > effect or cause > effect relationship.
Nothing happens without a reason (without religious connotation).

------
ericdykstra
I've found that, myself included, a lot of the focus on how to "get things
done" in the tech community comes down to tips and tricks. Focus using this
technique, break things down, follow GTD, use this productivity software, use
that todo list, etc.

With a team, working on a project, you have some nice extrinsic motivation. A
team relying on you, maybe deadlines to meet, customers to please, a paycheck
to work for, etc.

But for side projects, even though I knew all the tricks, I still had a really
tough time _actually_ doing anything for a couple of years. I had a couple of
projects that I was super motivated for and completed over a couple of weeks,
but most of my time outside of that was wholly unproductive.

The thing that was missing for me was the _why_ , the long-term vision. If I
was working on something now that has little value to me in that moment or the
days following, I found it hard to find motivation to keep going.

What I found boost my initial productivity the most was _actually conjuring up
the motivation_. After that, it's a series of small wins in increasing that
productivity through software, tips, tricks, support groups, etc. Without the
motivation, though, no amount of tools will get things done for you.

~~~
elliott34
Disagree about motivation. See Steven Pressfield's "War of Art" and "Do the
work."

Motivation is ephemeral. Hard work, habit, consistently applying yourself
regardless of your motivation, is key.

~~~
ericdykstra
Definitely agree! But you need to find it in yourself a driving reason to put
in the hard work.

Tell a depressed, unmotivated person with no goals to just "work hard" and see
how far that gets you. There needs to be some reason to do something rather
than nothing.

~~~
ZeroGravitas
I'm not a doctor, but I think part of the advice for certain types of
depression e.g. people who have let their home get so untidy that they are
overwhelmed at the thought of ever getting it tidy again, and very similar to
advice for breaking writer's block, is just to make a start, and let the small
amounts of progress form a reinforcement to continue.

~~~
Bartweiss
This is true, but it's almost never structured as "just do the work". If
anything, it's the opposite framing: do a little bit, just this one isolated
task, and see the progress you make.

Pressfield's "do the work" annoys me, because it undervalues the importance of
energy and a goal. It's a great approach to make reliable progress and fight
distraction, but it's badly inadequate to the task of creating activity in the
first place.

------
shubhamjain
One chronic problem with productivity on side-projects that I have always had
is valuing what you are doing. With a fresh start towards an idea, motivation
run high, mind is pumped up to work and you are terribly excited to get the
thing out of the door.

Fast forward few more days or weeks, you're unexcited, you think this is
hopelessly daft, you think no will care about it, and slowly de-motivation
creeps in.

I recently started a small blog to write research based articles on
interesting questions with a goal of putting a few posts per month but it
seems I am far behind my aim. I was excited about writing my last post[1] but
gradually, it faded into self-doubt — the writing style is in-consistent and
poor, the points are not strong, research is shallow — most of which come when
I see how others write and inevitably start comparing them with mine. I did
end up finishing the post but I just don't value what I did.

It seems the timeframe between starting and finishing should be as short as
possible. The breaks just kill the spirit.

[1]: [https://newpopsicle.com/should-the-truth-be-sugar-
coated/](https://newpopsicle.com/should-the-truth-be-sugar-coated/)

~~~
matt4077
That reminds me of an idea by Ira Glass (This American Life): when you start
learning something (i. e. writing), what improves most is taste. Actual
competence takes longer to develop.

The result is a (possibly ten-year long) period where you can clearly
recognize that your work sucks but you don't have the ability (yet) to not
suck.

~~~
thirdsun
One of my favorite quotes / ideas that always hits close to home. He continues
this thought with the observation that most people in those situations never
get past this point...and give up, while only a few keep pushing despite their
perceived mediocrity, which is a key part of this thought in my opinion.

Here's the full quote: “Nobody tells this to people who are beginners, I wish
someone told me. All of us who do creative work, we get into it because we
have good taste. But there is this gap. For the first couple years you make
stuff, it’s just not that good. It’s trying to be good, it has potential, but
it’s not. But your taste, the thing that got you into the game, is still
killer. And your taste is why your work disappoints you. A lot of people never
get past this phase, they quit. Most people I know who do interesting,
creative work went through years of this. We know our work doesn’t have this
special thing that we want it to have. We all go through this. And if you are
just starting out or you are still in this phase, you gotta know its normal
and the most important thing you can do is do a lot of work. Put yourself on a
deadline so that every week you will finish one story. It is only by going
through a volume of work that you will close that gap, and your work will be
as good as your ambitions. And I took longer to figure out how to do this than
anyone I’ve ever met. It’s gonna take awhile. It’s normal to take awhile.
You’ve just gotta fight your way through.”

~~~
criddell
Thank you for finding that.

It's funny how strongly I _heard_ Glass' voice in my head as I read that. He
seems like an interesting guy.

~~~
jtrtoo
Check out the video of him discussing this and you'll actually hear his voice:
[https://vimeo.com/24715531](https://vimeo.com/24715531) :-)

------
seren
I think something missing from the list is "learn to say no".

This is not necessarily a very positive sounding message, but when you are
pulled left and right to support or help people, you do not get anything on
your personal task list done.

There is a right balance to find because in a way by helping, the whole team
is progressing. Try to teach people how to fish rather that giving them a
fish.

~~~
Swizec
"The fastest code is the code that never runs"

On that note, postpone noncritical shit as long as you can stomach. 9 times
out of 10 it will resolve itself and you'll find you didn't really care about
the result.

~~~
afarrell
To rephrase maccard's comment: postpone it explicitly rather than explicitly.

If you silently chip the task into the tall grass, then they are left with
ambiguity and frustration. If you are explicit, then you give them an
opportunity to convince you of its value. If you respect them as a colleague,
listen to them and argue with them. If you don't respect them, talk to your
manager so they stop coming to you.

~~~
Swizec
I meant noncritical like cleaning out your closet, donating that pile of
clothes you never wear, or doing the dishes.

At work, the correct response is to consult a project manager person and ask:
"Which project would you like me to deprioritize, in favor of this new
project?". There are people whose entire job it is to balance stakeholder
concerns and decide what you should be working on today/this week/this
month/this quarter. Use them.

If you're in a position or organization where that's your job, then make your
priorities public. When someone asks you to do X, explain that you're already
doing Y. If you can't come to an ad-hoc agreement about priorities, talk to a
higher up.

If you're the last higher up in the chain, then, shit man, hire more people.

But the basic principle is this: If it's not on the roadmap, why are you
working on it? If it's not the next most important thing on the roadmap, why
are you working on it?

~~~
crispyambulance
On the other hand, assiduously doing ONLY what the PM has designated to the
exclusion of everything else is a recipe for misery and organizational
dysfunction.

There has to be some slack for creativity, problem-solving, and some
unstructured collaboration. I run into problems all the time in a "cross-
functional" role with people who refuse to lift their nose from the grindstone
unless specifically commanded by their boss.

~~~
Swizec
Of course, "Use your judgement". I try to fulfill small asks quickly, as time
permits. For bigger asks, I work with the person to get them slotted into the
roadmap.

Same approach for bugs. If something comes up where it's not absolutely clear
that it's a critical production bug, I go ask the roadmap guy whether this is
more or less critical than what I'm working on.

The idea isn't that he's my boss and I only do ahat he says, but that he has
broader insight into the business and criticality of various things. Sometimes
something can be terribe and critical and everyone gets up in a huff, but it's
still not worth doing instead of the business critical project you're working
on.

------
hbt
One thing the post doesn't cover is a defeatist attitude or a poor outlook on
life. Basically, depression (regardless of the reason).

Depression doesn't need to paralyze you. You can be productive when depressed
but it is often followed by a pattern of self destructive behavior.

I used to never understand why addicts would self destroy. They would get a
job, finally get their lives together and then fuck it up.

Long term goals can feel pointless when you believe that you are insignificant
and your life is meaningless. What's the point of improving my life by X
factor if I'm gonna be dead anyway? What's the point of building this if it
will be replaced by technology Y in Z years? What's the point of discovering
this if eventually someone else will? What's the point if the Universe....

That type of thinking about the far future often results in defeatism.

In reality, you wake up the next day, having made no progress, your life is
the same as yesterday, it may have gotten worse if you overindulged in your
addiction and now you feel like utter shit.

A positive outlook on life and a focus on improving now, on evaluating each
activity as a return on investment and building a better version of yourself
feels more serene than admitting defeat.

I think comfort leads to stagnation. The best work I've done is when I was in
survival mode and completely dissatisfied with my life. Once I reach
"normalcy", procrastination and self indulgence kick in unless I see a point
behind a long term goal.

~~~
boodm
>Once I reach "normalcy", procrastination and self indulgence kick in unless I
see a point behind a long term goal.

Greeeeat point. Productivity is incredible while you're in survival mode.
However, is there a time when stagnation is the goal? I often thought, "If I
got rich, I'd do nothing. Sit, enjoy life, travel." But would that lead to the
depression you speak of?

~~~
hbt
Past a certain level of income, the number of things you can directly buy that
will make a significant improvement in your life are extremely rare.

You're back to square 1 and you need to work to improve your life. The
technology, products and services simply do not exist.

Unless you are willing to readjust your world view, attitude and ambition to
be fine with stagnation (i.e "living life"); you will feel dissatisfied.

~~~
mikeschmatz
Yep, yep, yep. Just got "there", thanks to the original motivation. Trying to
just "live life". Sucks...

------
JohnDoe365
> It turns out that I as a human can do a lot on my own!

Reminds of

> If a thing is worth doing, it is worth doing badly

[http://www.chesterton.org/a-thing-worth-
doing/](http://www.chesterton.org/a-thing-worth-doing/)

~~~
hackits
Wish I was told this when I was younger, would of help put the world into
perspective sooner than later :)

------
Andrewbass
"Try to get something done every day" has been the hardest and most rewarding
part for me. It seems like it is mostly just reconciling long term and short
term incentives. I'm incentivized tin the long run to finish and launch my
side project but there are a ton of other short term incentives competing for
my time today.

I put together [https://codeorelse.com](https://codeorelse.com) to help me
with that. If I don't push to GiHub on a day, I have to pay $1 (or more if i
want). Seems to be helping.

------
juiced
What does help me too is to just start on something and not procrastinate. If
you survived the first 2 seconds of starting, you can go on for hours.

~~~
IfOnlyYouKnew
What helps me is a moderate dose of amphetamines. It takes me from being
someone who steps over something on the floor for a week because he's to lazy
to put it away to writing code for 56 hours straight.

And the code isn't actually bad. The real problem is that it also makes you
into a perfectionist who starts to write his own jpeg library if he finds
anything about libjpg that he does't like.

~~~
collyw
I bet if you had said aderall instead of amphetamine that wouldn't have been
down-voted.

~~~
lfowles
A moderate dose of Adderall wouldn't have you coding for 56 hours straight...

------
alphadevx
> Focus (do one thing at a time, maybe two)

I think it is important to focus on an achievable list of tasks each day,
otherwise you can easily get overwhelmed. Getting items closed each day makes
me feel effective.

My personal "hack" is to focus on no more than 5 tasks per day (apart from all
of my regular everyday work tasks), and I am building an MVP to track those:
[https://five.today/](https://five.today/)

I honestly get a great feeling from a completed list at the end of each day
(but I don't always get there!).

------
hagubman
This is a pretty good on all points.

Especially the "Focus" part. God knows how many times I missed deadlines
because I was too stupid to focus on finishing one-two things at a time,
instead of trying to work everything I have to, only to get confused, not sure
what was next for one thing, something else for another... Finally sitting
down and telling myself: "DUDE, FOCUS" As I realized how much easier it was to
do things one at a time was a real life-saver.

------
afarrell
Also block HN and other sites for chunks of time using /etc/hosts or (if you
need non-revocable commitment) [https://freedom.to/](https://freedom.to/) .

------
PieterH
Best philosophy I've found is: take most urgent problem, solve minimally,
check, repeat forever.

~~~
henrik_w
But - when does the important, but non-urgent, get done?

~~~
PieterH
If it is never the next most urgent problem, then never.

------
petetnt
Loved the section "Try to get something done every day". Productivity hacks do
nothing to me. Reading Hacker News while working is nothing off my actual work
as long as I get things done. And I do get things done, lots of work. Not
saying that productivity hacks won't work for someone, but people need to
understand that best metric of getting stuff done is getting stuff done,
regardless what you did in-between of start point and finish line.

------
z3t4
It might seem obvious but "Try to get something done every day" is a very good
advice. You can apply this to anything. Just take one step every day and you
will eventually reach your goal. The hard part is always to start. If you
"start" every day it will soon become effortless. Pick up your guitar, write
some lines of code, go to the gym, etc.

~~~
ekianjo
I dont know if its just me, I have the opposite problem. For me its very hard
to finish things properly. I have the motivation to start and get 80 percent
there but then there is no more pull to polish things further.

~~~
namaemuta
Is it because you have done all the interesting stuff or because you got
distracted with something else (or had to stop working on it) and you don't
feel like working on it again?

~~~
ekianjo
Yeah, I feel most of the interesting stuff is in the beginning to somewhere
around half-way, and then I'm never as motivated to see it to completion
because the "research" part is done.

------
boodm
I think it says something about the Hacker News community that these posts
always float to the top. Hardly a day passes where I don't see a "no more
procrastination" post.

What does this mean? Is it that we're all procrastinators? I don't think so,
many here are highly accomplished. Is it our fear or procrastination? Is it
perfectionism?

Strange.

~~~
projektir
It's a poorly understood subject on a topic that almost all people consider
important.

Given that it is a poorly understood subject, it is then a highly moralized
one, and moralized topics are popular.

------
welanes
> "Try to get something done every day".

This bit is key. Even a millimeter forward beats standing still. It's about
discipline.

What works for me is simply:

1\. Wake up early 2\. Focus one one thing 3\. Give yourself a deadline 4\.
Measure your productivity

\------ shameless but useful plug begins here ------

I've turned this approach into a web app -
[https://lanes.io](https://lanes.io). It's a todo list and timer with
'insights' into when you're most productive. It won't help you with point 1
(try coffee), but it's good for achieving all the the other steps.

The feedback loop from measuring your progress is surprisingly effective.
Trying to beat how productive you were yesterday becomes a game you play.

------
projektir
This doesn't really work if you want to do more than one thing. Many of us
find the highly specialized life incredibly dull.

I guess that's the tragedy of the human existence.

------
soegaard
Note that there is a new implementation of Hendersons's picture language.
Color images is just one of the new features.

Save this file. Open it. Either add your own code at the bottom or use require
to use it from another file.

[https://github.com/sicp-lang/sicp/blob/master/sicp-
pict2/sic...](https://github.com/sicp-lang/sicp/blob/master/sicp-
pict2/sicp.rkt)

------
JohnStrange
There is way more advice in David Allen's well-known book _Getting Things
Done_ , and there are many things to help with this like the _Action Day
Planner_ notebook.

Allen's method is better than many others. Still I have to admit that
personally this self-motivation stuff has never appealed much to me. I'm using
the _just do it - or procrastinate_ method.

~~~
barking
My experience of david allen's GTD is that it's a little bit like dieting.
Every now and then I go on a diet because I'm depressed about my weight. Every
now and then I start using GTD because I'm feeling overwhelmed by the work
that needs to be done. Both make me feel better for a little while but I lack
the willpower to stick at them.

~~~
mikekchar
> I go on a diet because I'm depressed [...] > I start using GTD because I'm
> feeling overwhelmed [...] > I lack the willpower to stick at them

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that it's not willpower you lack.
You stop feeling depressed, or you stop feeling overwhelmed (at least a little
bit). _That 's_ why you stop.

One of the things I learned when I was studying Japanese is that I couldn't
sustain my negative motivation to study. I could only study every day if I
truly wanted to study every day.

It is said that if you keep one eye on the goal, you only have one eye for the
path. For long term goals, it's important to concentrate on making your daily
activities the goal, because the long term goal will not actually come in time
to satisfy you.

Another way I tend to look at it is that people think "I want to be slim" or
"I want to get things done". It's not actually what they want. Rather they are
thinking, "I want to _have become_ slim" or "I want to _have got_ things
done". The key to success is to change your point of view so that the act of
becoming slim (dieting, exercising, etc) or the act of getting things done
(working) is what you desire. Instead of thinking, "Those are crappy things
that I must endure", you must think "Why do I dislike those things and what
can I do to change my point of view?"

Hope that helps!

~~~
cJ0th
> You stop feeling depressed, or you stop feeling overwhelmed (at least a
> little bit). That's why you stop.

Could be. Another problem would be doubt: Is there any value in what I do?
With some goals like loosing weight it is obvious. But how about: should I
write that book?

The method is very efficient no matter what you do. That is, you approach your
goal with 100 miles/hour and not walking speed. If at some point it becomes
clear that you followed the wrong goal you wasted a good amount of energy. I
think knowing this can paralyze you.

~~~
mikekchar
I think that "Is there any value in what I do" a good question, but perhaps
you can think about it differently. For example, "Should I write a book?" If
you start to write a book and don't finish, have you wasted your time? If your
answer to this question is "yes", then maybe writing a book is not a good idea
for you. Again, it's getting into that category of wanting to have written a
book, not wanting to write a book.

Instead you can decide to write. It might be a book. It might not be a book.
In fact, if you have never written a book before, probably it's much better
not to aim at writing a book. For example, even if you want to run a marathon
some day, you don't get up out of bed, never having run before and say, "Today
I am going to run a marathon". Instead you get up and run. You do that every
day for a year or so and _then_ you start thinking, "Maybe I'll run a
marathon".

I think people get confused because they see people just write a book, or run
a marathon or whatever. If you are Stephen King, you can wake up one day and
think "I'm going to write a book" because you already have all the skills you
need to organise and maintain yourself over the period of time you need. You
also know that writing is something you feel comfortable doing day in and day
out. And although I can do many things that Stephen King can't do, _I_ can not
just decide to write a book. It takes experience to get to that point.

Another trick that I use for this kind of thing is to think about what I
currently do that feels like a waste of time. For example, sitting around and
watching mindless TV. It's easier to think, "I'm not going to watch TV today".
But the question is, what _are_ you going to do? Suddenly the world opens up.
You can do anything. Maybe it is running. Maybe it is writing a book. Maybe it
is programming. You aren't wasting your time, but you also don't need some
paralysing overarching goal either.

~~~
cJ0th
All very true but what I meant to say (but didn't actually articulate) is that
when you apply GTD it becomes clear that you need priorities.

Let's say you are well versed in a new technology that is quickly gaining
popularity. Now you are unsure whether you want to write a book about this
technology. Maybe it becomes THE standard book on this topic! Otoh, you could
apply at a company where you can work on a project that uses said technology.

There are obviously pros and cons to both ideas. One Scenario: You start
writing the book because it seems to be the more fulfilling job. Some months
in a stronger, competing technology arrives. Now you think: Was starting the
book a good idea? If I had taken the job at least I'd have earned a paycheck
and had something to put on my CV. In hindsight you may realize that you crave
a more secure lifestyle etc.

The time has passed so there already would be a gap on your CV if you don't
finish the book. So maybe finishing the book is not a bad idea. At least you
can demonstrate that you've done _something_ successfully during the last
couple of months. Let's assume finishing the book would take two more months.
Could you easily complete it when everything is already outlined with GTD?
Further more, could you easily abandon it when everything is already outlined
with GTD?

~~~
mikekchar
I see. I have to admit that I'm especially bad at these kinds of decisions :-)
I don't use GTD, so abandoning my plan is easy for me. I also don't try to
optimise, generally speaking.

The one thing I can say from my experience with software projects is that
plans must change in order to have success. It is rare that you will nail the
correct course of action up front. In fact it is rare that the thing the
customer needs looks anything like what they think they want at the start.
This seems to be true for me in my life as well.

A friend once told me that you should tell the universe what you want and then
wait for it to be delivered. The trick is that the universe never gives you
what you asked for, but rather what you need. Your job is to recognise it when
it comes. Easier said than done!

But anyway, thank your for the ideas. I will have to think about this!

------
VLM
Its a good middle of an essay.

The first half of the article is a rephrasing of the organizational strategy
of focusing hard on things closer to you (in time, priority, physically,
financial, whatever) and intentionally fuzzier on things far away but remember
to at least glance at everything once in a while. Its that strategy dis-
integrated into seemingly unrelated parts without referencing the whole,
although I was able to identify the whole. I'm too lazy to look up the dude
who originally wrote that, probably wrote it more eloquently than I did; none
of this paragraph is my idea.

The second half of the article isn't integrated or I can't recognize what was
dis-integrated to make it. The problem of doing whatever's necessary paragraph
isn't a purity problem or personal problem or usually everything turns out OK,
but is often a code smell problem, which can be counteracted at least
partially by the be organized enough paragraph, just comment the code as
smelly and list it as needing rewriting in the TODO and hope it runs until it
can be perfected. Likewise having deadlines and I can do a lot are dis-
integrated. There probably is a theme to the second part that was dis-
integrated that I can't identify.

I guess both complaints boil down to it needs a wrapper. An intro like "heres
how to break down and concretely apply two wide ranging theoretical and vague
organizational strategies (names here) that help me (insert the rest of the
intro explaining why its important to do so here)" And a summary/conclusion of
the highlights and if you liked this here are some google terms/references
etc. Its "why" and "how" are well written and correct, its just missing its
"what".

Its the meaty middle of a good essay, although an intro and conclusion (and
references) would have been nice additions.

------
pacomerh
Here's the big one for me. Define short deadlines! This is super important, it
will force you to do the other ones automatically (Removing less important
tasks, focusing, etc)

------
lj3
I can't help but think it was easier to do things before the internet.

~~~
Practicality
I did a lot of programming before the internet was widely available. It was
easier to keep working but much harder to get things done.

When you have to use dusty manuals to research anything and everything you
spend a _lot_ of time looking things up and/or a lot of time trying random
possibilities until one works.

(You end up with a lot of "black-box" APIs and functions that you know work,
but you can't remember why or what other things it can do are)

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dvcrn
Am I the only one expecting a explanation or setup guide for David Allens GTD?

