

Ask HN: Useful law books? - kirillzubovsky

Does anyone know of a good text book on law? I am looking for something that gets read by the law students, and something that doesn't just talk about philosophy of law, but rather has real cases/discussions/examples?
======
anigbrowl
Oh yes, I have a growing shelf of them :-)

The law is a very big subject, though. Do you want to get to grips with
constitutional law? Or get a bird's eye view on how the law works - which will
tell you a bit about all the major areas and how the courts work, but in a
very 'reader's digest' fashion with only a paragraph or two about famous
cases? Or do you want to know the basics of business law as it might affect
your startup? Or do you like the legal philosophy part, only in much greater
detail?

1\. Constitutional Law [http://www.amazon.com/Constitutional-Law-Principles-
Policies...](http://www.amazon.com/Constitutional-Law-Principles-Policies-
Introduction/dp/073555787X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1310683311&sr=1-1)

2\. Fundamentals of American Law [http://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-American-
Law-Alan-Morriso...](http://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-American-Law-Alan-
Morrison/dp/0198764057/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1310682818&sr=8-4)

3\. Barron's Review - Business Law [http://www.amazon.com/Business-Law-
Barrons-Review/dp/0764142...](http://www.amazon.com/Business-Law-Barrons-
Review/dp/0764142402/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1310682873&sr=1-1)

4\. How Judges think [http://www.amazon.com/Judges-Think-Honorable-Richard-
Posner/...](http://www.amazon.com/Judges-Think-Honorable-Richard-
Posner/dp/0674048067/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1310682947&sr=1-1) or
Overcoming Law [http://www.amazon.com/Judges-Think-Honorable-Richard-
Posner/...](http://www.amazon.com/Judges-Think-Honorable-Richard-
Posner/dp/0674048067/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1310682947&sr=1-1) are
excellent books by Judge Richard Posner. Bad Acts, Guilty Minds
[http://www.amazon.com/Bad-Acts-Guilty-Minds-
Conundrums/dp/02...](http://www.amazon.com/Bad-Acts-Guilty-Minds-
Conundrums/dp/0226425924/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1310683020&sr=1-1) and
Ill-gotten Gains [http://www.amazon.com/Ill-Gotten-Gains-Evasion-Blackmail-
Kin...](http://www.amazon.com/Ill-Gotten-Gains-Evasion-Blackmail-
Kindred/dp/0226425932/ref=pd_sim_b_2) by Leo Katz examines some
philosophically tricky areas of criminal law...although Katz does a better job
with the questions than the answers, IMHO.

You will save a fortune by buying used. Especially now, because a lot of law
students sell off their books as soon as they've passed the bar exams, which
are held around now. It's not important to have the most up-to-date versions;
the more current the issues, the more politicized and noisy the discussion.
Look in the used books section on Craigslist too. If you ask nicely, your
local law school will probably give you a tour of their library or suggest
some starter books, likewise your local community college if it offers any
courses in law.

Since you're in Seattle, you should also check out the King County Law
Library, which is open to the public:
<http://kcll.org/aboutus/generalinformation/faqs.html> finally, the Legal
Information Institute at Cornell is a much more useful resource than its bland
front page might suggest: <http://www.law.cornell.edu/>

~~~
kirillzubovsky
wow, that's quite a list! I read it at a dinner with friends and immediately
had to share. HN is awesome, and so are you :D

I will definitely check out those books, as you seemed to have hit all the
areas I'd be interested in, especially 1 and 4.

Would you also recommend anything specifically on the language of law? Legal
docs are always a ginormous pain to read, and I want to see how lawyers are
taught to structure these things.

Again, thank you very much!

~~~
anigbrowl
Oh, you're welcome! Just be aware that that's a sort of personal preference
list, rather than anything systematic. I can't suggest anything specific to
read on the language side. You could pick up a copy of _Black's Law
Dictionary_ , the standard reference work, but to be honest you'd find good
definitions for most of the common legal phrases on Wikipedia or the Cornell
LII for free. Learning to read legal citations and look things up in a library
is quite tricky at first - and so time-consuming that most lawyers just pay
for a subscription to Lexis-Nexis or Westlaw, which is faster and cheaper for
them and their clients. Fortunately, you can access much of that information
for free on Google Scholar, and most of the citations are already hyperlinked
for you. But look at the hyperlinks and read articles on citation to figure
out the format, because it's essential to have a firm grasp of context at all
times - not unlike variable/object scope in programming.

The structuring and phraseology (as opposed to terminology) of legal documents
is certainly confusing. All I can suggest is read, read, read. If you go to
the public law library, ask for the legal newspapers, and there will likely be
half industry news and half case summaries. A lot of these seem obtuse and
absurdly technical at first, with the longest cases revolving around the most
obscure procedural issues. These are often the most interesting ones, because
procedural rules are created by the courts rather than legislatures, and they
define how legislation should actually be applied to facts. Statutory laws and
fact patterns are like the action in sports or the tactics in warfare: it's
often fairly obvious what the issues are, and fairly easy to tell who's
winning and losing. But as you gain a deeper understanding of the rules and
rule systems (which are in constant flux) then a more complex strategic
dimension comes into focus - both within individual cases, and across whole
areas of law, or indeed society. It's sort of like a jigsaw puzzle with a
large number of pieces; at first it's an intimidating mess and nothing seems
to connect with anything else, but before long you find some edge pieces or
get lucky to find some connections. You still need a lot of patience, but now
it's just a matter of time and patience. Once you have done a few jigsaw
puzzles, you develop a system for dealing with new ones. Now imagine a box
with lots of different jigsaw puzzle pieces thrown in together, some of which
are on fire :-)

The other thing that I've found enormously helpful, especially in
understanding constitutional law, is time spent with history books. Although
courts in general aspire to apply the law objectively, the formation and
implementation of law are intensely political activities. As a non-American
like yourself, the origins or causes of some legal 'facts of life' are
mysterious to me, and my understanding of the relationship between courts,
legislatures, and executives often changes as I learn more about the
individual political actors and the controversies of the time. At first this
was frustrating - there's a lot of history, and a lot of it is disputed
intellectual territory - but on the upside, coming to the society from the
outside means you don't have as many preconceptions or unconscious biases.

Of course, the best thing you can do is make friends with lawyers. I am just a
beginning law student, so you should not rely on me as a good guide! But
although the field is complex, it is endlessly interesting and accommodates
many different cognitive and personal styles.

~~~
kirillzubovsky
Wow, that's quite a response! Now I can see why you've gotten so many karma
points on HN! It seems you've looked up a bunch of info about me, but where do
I find anything about you? :D

------
slessard
Three books that are essential for me:

1\. Hillman on Commercial Loan Documentation
[http://www.pli.edu/Content.aspx?dsNav=Ns:sort_title|101|1|,N...](http://www.pli.edu/Content.aspx?dsNav=Ns:sort_title|101|1|,N:4294941633-165&ID=625)

2\. Securities Activities of Banks
[http://www.aspenpublishers.com/product.asp?catalog_name=Aspe...](http://www.aspenpublishers.com/product.asp?catalog_name=Aspen&product_id=0735518602)

3\. Federal Taxation of Financial Instruments and Transactions
[http://ria.thomsonreuters.com/education/catalog/instruments....](http://ria.thomsonreuters.com/education/catalog/instruments.asp)

~~~
kirillzubovsky
Looks interesting! At $300 a pop, I hope the public library's got them :)

------
kirillzubovsky
Btw, applies to all, I think this video series is amazing -
<http://www.justiceharvard.org>

------
beck5
Without sounding condescending there is a lot of law, is it US or EU law?
related to software, IP, liability etc or murders and fun stuff?

~~~
kirillzubovsky
Good point. I'd say US law. I am just looking for something that goes deeper
than philosophy, but not necessarily so deep that it's focused on a one
particular subject. If I were to choose though, I'd say "fun stuff". Thoughts?

