
Edward Snowden nominated for Nobel peace prize - ahjones
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/29/edward-snowden-nominated-nobel-peace-prize
======
Lazare
Some may find the list of people who can nominate someone for the Nobel peace
prize interesting. From their website:

Members of national assemblies and governments of states; Members of
international courts; University rectors; professors of social sciences,
history, philosophy, law and theology; directors of peace research institutes
and foreign policy institutes; Persons who have been awarded the Nobel Peace
Prize; Board members of organizations that have been awarded the Nobel Peace
Prize; Active and former members of the Norwegian Nobel Committee; Former
advisers to the Norwegian Nobel Committee

Most of those are fairly small groups; but "Members of national assemblies and
governments of states" is a pretty big chunk of people, and "professors of
social sciences, history, philosophy, law and theology" is a simply enormous
group of people.

As a result, nominations are __very __meaningless; any third rate history or
sociology prof at some podunk community college can nominate someone if they
have a mind to, and all sorts of people get nominated, often as a lark or to
prove a point. I believe Bush was nominated repeatedly, for example.
(Well...nominations are secret, but I know of people who have the ability to
nominate, and claimed to have done so, and I don 't see why they'd bother to
lie, so...)

So yes, Snowden was nominated (well, unless these politicians are lying).
Honestly, he was probably nominated dozens of times. This isn't news. Also, a
couple of left-wing Norwegian politicians like Snowden. Also not news. :) The
only real news here is if he wins...

~~~
nivla
> I believe Bush was nominated repeatedly.

Ha even bizzaring, Adolf Hitler was once nominated. [1]

[1]
[http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/facts/peace/](http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/facts/peace/)

~~~
valarauca1
Hitler was TIME magazine man of year, and for a decent while in America
Fascism was mildly popular (circa 1930's). Its strange looking back on a that
time (Post Holocaust and WW2). American Newspapers applauded the works of
fascists claiming, "They got the trains to run on time."

~~~
kaffeinecoma
Being Man of the Year isn't necessarily an honor. From Wikipedia:

    
    
      Person of the Year (formerly Man of the Year) is an annual 
      issue of the United States newsmagazine Time that features 
      and profiles a person, group, idea or object that "for 
      better or for worse...has done the most to influence the 
      events of the year."

~~~
dharmach
2001 title should have gone to OBL then.

~~~
pfarrell
"Though we spent hours debating the pros and cons of naming Osama bin Laden,
it ultimately became easy to dismiss him," said managing editor Jim Kelly. "He
is not a larger-than-life figure with broad historical sweep ... he is smaller
than life, a garden-variety terrorist whose evil plan succeeded beyond his
highest hopes."

They chose Giuliani instead.

[http://edition.cnn.com/2001/US/12/23/giuliani.time/](http://edition.cnn.com/2001/US/12/23/giuliani.time/)

~~~
MichaelGG
"Smaller than life?" What does that mean? For worse, those attacks have had
lasting implications everywhere. Sounds like they realised they'd be slammed
really hard if they stuck to accuracy so they backed down with some handy-wavy
nonsense about being brave.

If their bravery had caused a proper response, similar to how Norway responded
to that mass-shooting, then it'd be worthwhile to note. But despite their
bravery, that "garden-variety terrorist" has succeeded in scaring people into
allowing their government to expand powers.

And the dismissal that it doesn't matter because he didn't think it'd work out
- that's just idiotic. Do we disqualify scientists from the other Nobel prizes
because "they really didn't think this experiment would discover anything"?

~~~
crystaln
So, in your opinion, it was an idiotic injustice that Osama bin Laden was
robbed of being Time's Man of the Year.

~~~
MichaelGG
I don't think it's an "injustice" and I don't think "robbed" is the right word
either. I'm unaware of anyone I know that really cares what some magazine
writes.

I'm just pointing out their terrible use of rhetoric and lack of logic.

------
praptak
While I'm fond of any form of flipping the NSA-backing US administration the
bird, the Nobel Peace prize has not enough reputation to matter in this
context.

Al Gore got it for raising awareness of climate change. Obama got that for not
being Bush. Even if Snowden gets it, it doesn't really matter.

~~~
sergiotapia
In all honesty, Obama got it for being the first black president - it was a
HUGE deal, remember that.

~~~
krzyk
I assume that there are a lot of black presidents e.g. in Africa, I don't
think a lot of them got that award.

~~~
sergiotapia
Don't be unnecessarily obtuse - of course I meant the first black US
president.

------
ck2
Everyone has already forgotten Pfc. Manning rotting away for 35 years.

I saw a "free Snowden" sign the other day which I thought was asinine.

~~~
timsally
> Everyone has already forgotten Pfc. Manning rotting away for 35 years.

Please represent the facts accurately. Manning is eligible for release in 7-8
years. I'm willing to make a long bet
([http://longbets.org](http://longbets.org)) for $300.00 that Manning does not
serve 35 years, or "rot away for 35 years" as you put it. Are you up for it?

~~~
gamerdonkey
I hate that this nitpicking has become the standard response whenever someone
is facing a prison sentence. It utterly belittles the hardship that people
like Pfc. Manning actually face, even if it is for 7-8 years in the end.

Additionally, the parole or probation that she faces even after release are
still punishment. It's not as though the troubles are suddenly over.

Treating the issue in this way makes it sound like the judge announced the 35
year sentence, slammed a gavel, then looked over to Manning with a wink and a
whimsical smile. That's not what happened. 35 years was the sentence, and that
is what you should expect to hear in relation to the case, even if it can be
reduced with work on the part of the defendant.

~~~
sliverstorm
35 years vs. 7-8 years is not exactly nitpicking.

What they get out in, is just as relevant as what they were sentenced to.
Otherwise, why do we get so mad when a murderer is sentenced to 20 years and
out in 2?

~~~
gamerdonkey
I agree that it is a fairly large difference in number, but I still think that
trumpeting on about it distracts from the primary discussion.

At best, this is all speculation. 7-8 years is the time before Chelsea Manning
becomes _eligible_ for parole. Whether or not she is actually released will
depend on a number of factors, including the political climate at the time.
We'll only really find out around 2021.

Finally, and this is something I touched on in my first comment, even 7 years
in a federal prison is nothing to sneeze at. A non-trivial amount of time
spent on federal probation after release isn't exactly going to be a cakewalk,
either. And this is all on top of the time already spent in the military
justice system, including almost a year of solitary confinement. Basically,
I'm just asking that we don't downplay what must be an awful experience simply
because our justice system has wiggle room.

------
Tloewald
He certainly deserves it more than Obama (let's not mention Kissinger).

~~~
znowi
Obama's prize was more of a credit for good deeds in the future. Jagland
himself (Nobel committee chairman) partly confirmed that. Sadly, it didn't
work out. Rather backfired.

~~~
ekianjo
except that obama kept the million dollar prize. since he didnt return it id
call that stealing.

~~~
icebraining
"Kept" is a rather strange way of saying "donated to charity".

~~~
ekianjo
Well he shouldn't even dispose of the money the way he wants if he did not
deserve it.

------
cb_ru
Let's have a look at how the Norwegian Nobel Committee works, that is, the
people in charge of selecting the winners of the Nobel Peace Prize. Currently,
the committee is made up of five members, who have to represent the political
parties of the Norwegian Parliament. Here is the list of these members :

Mr Jagland (for 4 years) Mrs Kullmann Five (10 years) Mrs Ytterhorn (13 years)
Mrs Reiss-Andersen (2 years) Mr Stalsett (1 year)

Jagland has been a member of the Nobel Committee since 2009. The same year, he
was elected Secretary General of the Council of Europe. Note that Norway is
part of the Council of Europe, but not of the European Union. Jagland is in
favor of the EU, although Norwegian people have voted against joining the EU
two times.

All of the other members are politicians from national parties. According to
Wikipedia, Mrs Kullmann Five is also member of the Board of Directors of
Statoil, an oil company which is the largest company in Norway. Mrs Reiss-
Andersen is a lawyer, and she has written two novels. Mr Stalsett is the
Protestant bishop in Oslo.

As we can see, the committee is not a group of international law experts,
famous scientists or peace activists. The truth is, it seems the five members
of the committee do not have the right profile to be responsible for one of
the most important international awards in the world.

In fact, an additional person helps the committee to make decisions. Geir
Lundestad is the director of the Nobel Institute and has been the "secretary"
of the Norwegian Nobel Committee since 1990. He was a researcher in charge of
international relations at Harvard for three years, and a researcher at the
Woodrow Wilson Center, which is the eleventh biggest think tank in the world
(according to the Go-To think tank ranking) with famous members like Hillary
Clinton and Arne Duncan. Then, in 1990, Geir Lundestad came back to Norway and
became the new secretary of the Nobel Committee, and went on for 23 years.

The bottom line is that Geir Lundestad is the real decision-maker. This guy
calls the shots, and he will of course not choose Edward Snowden as the next
Nobel Peace Prize.

------
reuven
First of all, a huge number of people are nominated each year for the Nobel
Peace Prize. So the fact that Snowden was nominated doesn't really surprise
me; I'm guessing that many activists from around the world are nominated.

The list of who can nominate is somewhat restricted -- but given that any
member of any parliament, or any social-science professor at any university,
can nominate someone, that doesn't strike me as a very high barrier to entry.

The bigger question, in my mind, is whether Snowden contributed to world
peace. Yes, he clearly unveiled all sorts of schemes that the NSA had. It's a
good thing for democracy that he did such things; it's clear that the US
government was doing things that it claimed not to be doing, and that US and
foreign citizens alike were rather upset to hear.

So yes, I'm personally glad to hear that these things were unveiled.

However, did this really contribute to world peace? Is the world a less
violent place as a result? You could make the argument that it actually _is_
more dangerous in the world, because the US is less able to spy on people. I'm
not sure if that's the case, but it's not a totally crazy argument.

~~~
tete
Well, I guess since even Barack Obama, a president who spreads hatred by not
abolishing torture, not ending wars, supporting assassinations, etc. won the
Nobel Peace Prize a lot of things are counted.

Since the US obviously fights many secret wars and considers everyone but UK;
Canada and Australia their enemy unveiling the fact that there are secret wars
fought way more intensely than we knew before it is the only possible first
step to end it.

It at least makes more sense to me than destroying a part of (mostly broken or
expired) nuclear weapons. I don't think that the presence or absence of
nuclear weapon will ever be a reason for war, maybe a pretense, but that's
all.

~~~
reuven
I actually think that Obama's generally an OK president. (Not that I agree
with many of his policies, including those having to do with Guantanamo and
drones, mind you.)

But I still think it was kind of weird for him to get the Nobel Peace Prize.
At the very least, it strikes me as way premature.

------
sleepyK
Wow. The ability of people to only see what they want to see is amazing.

So Obama deserved a Nobel Peace prize for running a successful electoral
campaign, but Edward Snowden doesn't deserve one for making one of the largest
exposés of compromises of individual freedom in the history of the world.

Bravo, Americans.

------
lclemente
2009 - Obama

2014 - Snowden

That would certainly be something ;)

~~~
return0
2015: Putin

It's like they are giving the Emmys to the actors of some weird worldwide soap
opera.

------
coldcode
Maybe we can get someone to nominate the NSA for the peace prize. Would make
for fun commentary.

~~~
valarauca1
Well theoretically all this global spying and bombing targets from remote
controlled airplanes piloted half a world away should be making a safer more
peaceful world right?

------
informatimago
The Norwegian Nobel Committee is composed of five members appointed by the
Storting (Norwegian Parliament). The Committee's composition reflects the
relative strengths of the political parties in the Storting, and is assisted
by specially appointed expert advisers.

------
codecondo
He did open the eyes for many, he clearly was 'sent' here to do just that. Who
else?

------
chao-
Wouldn't be a bad consolation for being passed over as the TIME person of the
year.

------
saosebastiao
Well it certainly would say something about the value of the NPP if one winner
was forced into refugee status in one of the worst human rights violating
countries because he couldnt get a fair trial from another NPP winner.

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callesgg
I partly think the peace is like getting a bucket of piss since the time obama
got it.

~~~
philwelch
Obama? Try Arafat or Kissinger.

------
blisterpeanuts
Hear, hear. I would love to see him get the Nobel. I think history will look
kindly at Mr. Snowden, while the NSA's activities will be vilified -- assuming
we are allowed to learn about those activities and those of us speaking out
(or just texting each other about it) aren't fired, denied tenure, or
otherwise removed from public view in the Brave New World of total
surveillance.

------
sdaityari
Wouldn't it be ironical if he wins the Nobel just a few years after Obama?

------
adobriyan
Attending ceremony will be tricky.

~~~
chippy
Norway and Russia share a border. So it may be easier than at first glance.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway%E2%80%93Russia_border](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway%E2%80%93Russia_border)

~~~
Peroni
I think the comment was intending to highlight the fact that multiple
international organisations are trying to arrest Snowden and his appearance at
the awards would put him in jeopardy, not that travel logistics might be an
issue.

~~~
fit2rule
Which international organizations are trying to arrest Snowden?

(Only States can do it..)

------
mh_yam
If Obama can receive it, then I don't see why not Snowden.

------
etiam
I was disappointed he didn't win in 2013. If I remember my reading of the
rules correctly the members of the Nobel Committee could still have nominated
at the point when it was clear what he was revealing and how. Seems like the
obvious choice by far for last year.

As a relatively minor side benefit, Snowden winning the Peace Prize would be
an elegant rebuke to the rulers in the Sixth Eye of Five Eyes - Nobel's birth
country of Sweden. I'd like to see that.

There are many people that would be eminently eligible to share a Nobel Peace
Prize with this sort of motivation though. Only two slots left for the
sharing... Bill Binney and Tom Drake? John Kiriakou? Who are the other strong
contenders?

------
hawkharris
Snowden hasn't officially been nominated. From the article:

"The five-member [Nobel] panel will not confirm who has been nominated but
those who submit nominations sometimes make them public."

~~~
jebus989
You know how the nomination process works right? It won't be officially
confirmed until 50 years has passed.

See
[http://www.nobelprize.org/nomination/peace/](http://www.nobelprize.org/nomination/peace/)

------
patricjansson
It would be critisim agains the committee itself, giving it to someone
pointing out previous laureates as anti-peaceloving.

------
richardlblair
How interesting. If he wins, he will be obtaining the same award as Obama.
That just seems so ironic. You win the same award as the guy who has lied
about what the NSA is doing, and what he is willing to do about it.

------
PythonicAlpha
He will not get it. Since the real kings of the world will prevent it.

They will provide, that more likely a terrorist or mass-murder will get it. Or
even somebody that orders unethical kills of people by drones.

------
kingkawn
Barack and him will have a good chat at the next nobel winner bbq

~~~
staunch
Ah yes, the BBQ is always so delicious at The Annual Nobel Winner Chicken
Dinner.

------
jabits
Here, Here! In the end, more knowledge will lead to more peace. It sounds
hokey, but clandestine infinite historical data storage can only end in
disaster.

------
codex
Given that Snowden has undermined Pax Americana, I find this nomination
surprising.

------
daemonk
When did the Nobel peace prize become the "most-influential" prize.

~~~
hessenwolf
I assume it must have been before it lost the status when they gave it to a
guy who had yet to do anything, other than give some captivating speeches...
so... several minutes sometime?

~~~
Shish2k
> a guy who had yet to do anything

Thus making him infinitely more peaceful than every other major politician of
the era :P

(If by "major politician" you mean "American president", and by "era" you mean
"2001-2010". Which actually is what most people mean, AFAICT...)

~~~
hessenwolf
Let's scale it by how long he had been in power by that time...

------
collyw
It's a shame Obama devalued the prize by accepting a it.

------
mironathetin
That is a great way to make Snowdens life a little safer.

------
wanda
Nobel peace prize =! TIME person of the year

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cordite
What does the peace prize even mean?

------
lechevalierd3on
What kind of message would it send to the world if the US gouvernement was
still trying to put in jail a Nobel peace prize ?

------
icantthinkofone
Anybody can get nominated. Being seriously considered is more important.

