
Get Facebook WiFi for your business - BigBalli
https://www.facebook.com/business/facebook-wifi
======
carlob
Real conversation happened to me in an ice cream shop with a home-brewed
facebook captive portal in Cambridge, MA.

me: Excuse me, is there a way to log into the wifi if you don't have a
facebook account?

clerk: No, we've had a lots people doing illegal stuff on our wifi, so we need
to verify their identity.

me: I understand, however I don't have a facebook account. Would you like to
verify my identity with a photo id?

clerk: No, you'll need to get a facebook account.

me: I have serious concerns about my privacy. I will not make one just for the
sake of getting online here.

clerk: Just make one with a fake name!

me: …

~~~
rattray
Why not make a fake Facebook account? I imagine it could be useful in a number
of other similar situations.

(This is a serious question - I imagine there are real reasons _why_ not, I
just can't think of any myself apart from inconvenience/general principle).

~~~
scelerat
Fake names are contrary to Facebook's policy. Your account may get disabled.

[https://www.facebook.com/help/www/112146705538576](https://www.facebook.com/help/www/112146705538576)

~~~
eykanal
It's a FAKE NAME. If it's disabled, just make a new one. Hell, you could make
a new account every time you log on with a random bang-on-the-keyboard
password, what's the difference?

------
dade_
This has been available for several months now. To answer a few questions I've
seen, it uses a typical captive portal approach, so an unencrypted WiFi
hotspot. Upon connection, you are redirected to an encrypted site with
embedded Facebook account verification, at which point you can go wherever the
Internet service lets you. The router typically has content filtering and also
tracks Internet usage (bandwidth, visited sites, etc) as well as limits on
visit length etc.

It is a useful option for merchants, as customers expect WiFi for free.
Further, they expect it to be fast and that doesn't expose them to security
risks. In other words, this gets expensive and difficult to manage. There are
great solutions out there already, but they cost money - so the business case
is based on marketing data. Email authentication would work, but it is
difficult to gain much insight about customers, also you would need to give
people access to their email server to setup their authentication. SMS doesn't
work for people who don't have cell phones, or if there is poor coverage -
also marketing data would be very difficult to gain. So, Social Media
authentication (Facebook) turns out to be a really great option.

Obviously you have the choice not to use the service, but this isn't going
away. Industry codes of conduct need to be set and I don't think they have.
Privacy laws need to be understood and enforced. Retailer and coffee shop
activities with this data haven't caused me much concern, but Facebook is
another story.

~~~
oceanplexian
If your business depends on WiFi (e.g. Coffee Shop), this could potentially
hurt business. Only ~50-70% of US Internet users use Facebook and that is
dropping.

As a business owner I'd be concerned about alienation. Facebook is far from
universal and many avoid it (especially the younger crowd).

~~~
telecuda
A hybrid approach would be nice for your example: check in on Facebook to get
online yourself, or go ask the barista for the WiFi password

~~~
ezrameanshelp
More likely: there will be no hybrid approach and you'll see a piece of paper
tacked to the bulletin board: "House throwaway Facebook account login for
those without an account."

~~~
ryanmerket
Seriously? There IS a hybrid approach (read above comments). Ridiculous.

------
mseebach
This is a pretty good idea. It solves the coordination problem of not wanting
to just provide free wifi forever to anyone by requiring a token "payment". It
solves the identification problem which (unfortunately) is a requirement in
many jurisdictions. And it helps non-technical business owners provide decent
wifi.

~~~
rexreed
What sort of problem is this exactly solving? People seem to get at Wifi no
problem at all. Just wander into any Starbucks around 4PM, especially in New
York or any major metro and you'll see hordes of people accessing wifi. Is it
crowded? Sure? But this doesn't solve that problem. This just eliminates some
login steps and provides value to the provider of the wifi.

Do you feel that trading in your privacy to simplify the login problem (and
allow you to avoid actually paying the people whose space you are occupying
when you use their power and wifi and restroom and hvac) is worth it? It isn't
for me, and so I ask, what problem is it solving?

~~~
lucaspiller
Here in the UK most 'free' hotspot providers like BT or The Cloud already
require you to register and give up your personal information to get access.
When I've been travelling abroad I've encountered hotspots that require a
(local) mobile phone number to get access. Today I accessed a wifi network
that wouldn't let me get access unless I agreed to receive marketing material.
I see this as an easier way to get access, if you must you could always set up
a fake Facebook profile for this.

Also I haven't seen the terms, but I'm wondering if Facebook give out direct
personal information. Assuming they don't, would you rather be seen as John
Smith of 14 Main Street, DOB 1990-08-23 or 18 - 24 male who likes football?

~~~
_delirium
Interesting. I've never seen that in the Nordic countries or the US. Typically
either the wifi is just open entirely, or there's a WPA password written on a
little card by the cash register. Helsinki even has open wifi across the whole
downtown, and in Denmark all the Baresso locations have open wifi (no login or
password). Does the UK have laws requiring the hotspot providers to collect
that information, or are they doing it of their own accord for marketing or
abuse-reduction reasons?

~~~
na85
People in the UK seem strangely at peace with surveillance.

------
bearjew
Forget about logging in for wifi. This is a direct competitor to Nomi.

Facebook will now know whenever your MAC Address walks by a storefront with
one of these routers, regardless if you have an account. For those who have
installed the app (the majority of the country) FB will be able to match the
MAC ID to your account.

In addition to simply foot traffic walking by the store, the router will track
information on when you are actually in the store, how long you stayed there,
and how frequently you visit.

Eventually those with FB on their phone will have ads pushed to them when they
pass one of these routers. I imagine it wouldn't just be for stores with the
routers but those within the immediate vicinity.

Of course none of the data collected will be shared with the storeowners until
they are sold the ads by facebook.

~~~
angersock
Fuck me, you've got an excellent point there sir/madam.

------
ar7hur
First I thought that FB would provide the hardware and internet connection to
the business in exchange for so much information about their customers...

But after reading their FAQ, I realize that no, FB does not provide anything.
The deal is like "give me your customer info and your internet connection,
I'll give you... maybe a few more likes on your page".

Eventually for consumers like me who don't use FB, it's going to be a loss of
service. Some businesses who had open Wifi will now require FB check-in to
provide access. Sad.

~~~
objclxt
> _Some businesses who had open Wifi will now require FB check-in to provide
> access._

Check-in isn't required to get access. My local coffee shop switched over to a
Facebook WiFi point over the weekend (Phillz, who have a branch in Menlo Park
so I assume must be piloting it). All that really changed for me as an end
user was the old splash page got replaced with a Facebook page asking me if
I'd like to check-in (along with a button to skip check in, which I used).

~~~
jmathai
It's not _required_ but let's be honest - it'll be what happens.

Pretty sure the average person would rather "check in" via Facebook than using
the current "click this checkbox and continue".

People trust and like Facebook. They don't trust or like GogoBoingo Wireless.

~~~
oceanplexian
Actually I'd trust Boingo more than Facebook as a platform.

They've been around since 2001, Facebook since 2004.

~~~
lucb1e
That finally explains what that preinstalled crapware on my previous Asus
laptop was. Never came across any hotspot with Boinggoboing though.

~~~
jmathai
I see them in airports...

------
sergiotapia
Absolutely disgusting. These type of things just give me the willies. Everyday
I see that Mr. Stallman was right, it's incredible!

~~~
jasonlfunk
Why is this "absolutely disgusting"? It's good for Facebook, it's good for
local businesses, and it completely optional for consumers. I don't see any
problem here.

~~~
furyg3
It is not optional for users who do not have Facebook.

~~~
jeffasinger
I guess those users have the choice of signing up for Facebook, or not using
the Free WiFi?

~~~
shitlord
before, we could use the free wifi without a facebook account

~~~
maaaats
No, before many shops would not even offer free wifi. This will enable more
shops to have it.

~~~
zaidf
We advise a lot of small businesses and are seriously considering recommending
the adoption of this if it helps them get likes to their fb page. Capturing fb
likes from existing and happiest customers is a challenge for every small
business.

------
swasheck
> Customers simply check in to your location on Facebook to connect to free
> Wi-Fi

wow. not only do they get you to sign up for an account, they also get more
insight into your movements/migrations by forcing you to use a feature that
(for now) you can disable.

nobody says you have to use the service but we'll see how many more sell out
for it.

edit: read more

How do I edit the Wi-Fi code my customers use to skip check-in?

To edit your Wi-Fi code:

Go to your Page and click Edit Page at the top of your admin panel.

Select Edit Settings from the dropdown menu.

Click on the More... tab and select Facebook Wi-Fi.

Select Require Wi-Fi code and edit your Wi-Fi code in the box.

You can also choose not to require a code by selecting Skip check-in link.

Click Save Settings.

~~~
hrrsn
If you don't like it, don't buy a Facebook WiFi router.

For our business use case, this is perfect.

~~~
swasheck
... or don't go to a business that has purchased a Facebook WiFi router.

~~~
stock_toaster
Imagine hotels using this for their "free in room internet". I would seek
lodging elsewhere.

------
pathy
There are privacy concerns but overall I think it is a splendid idea, both for
Facebook and for the businesses that choose to join.

Your run of the mill free wifi is neither secure nor private to begin with and
I don't see Facebook Wifi encroaching on privacy any more than currently
available free wifi.

~~~
zuckerfap
Do you honestly believe facebook won't look for and find ways to encroach on
privacy more than currently available free wifi does? Their entire mission is
to encroach on privacy, and now they've got you connecting to their wifi
hotspots at the gynecologist's office.

~~~
MartinCron
_now they 've got you connecting to their wifi hotspots at the gynecologist's
office_

Nobody is forcing you to check in at your gynecologist's office, which is
something you can already do, if you're into that kind of oversharing

~~~
seszett
Actually, it might very well happen that these Wifi networks all have the same
SSID, which would likely make most devices automatically connect to them.

Even if they don't, they only ever need one connection to link your device's
MAC to your username, and then detect it without ever connecting.

~~~
MartinCron
Yeah, I thought of that the moment I posted.

------
zx2c4
If this becomes widespread, the phishing potential will be huge. Everybody is
used to clicking through SSL warnings, or not having SSL at all when
registering with hotspots. Rogue APs redux here we come.

~~~
mseebach
Any moderately busy location is already abuzz with dodgy-looking access
points. It appears you have to join using an app, presumably that app will
check certs against a whitelist.

------
modeless
Coming soon: captive portals that pretend to be Facebook WiFi and ask for your
Facebook username and password.

------
nextstep
Hell no. Business owners, please don't use this for wifi in your stores! I
refuse to use Facebook to leave a trail of where I am physically just to use
the wifi.

~~~
maaaats
If you bother to read the page, you will see that owners still can set an
"access token" (password) they can give users to log in.

------
dangrossman
I'd consider advertising Facebook on a wifi hotspot as soon as they offer to
pay for it by assuming liability for customers using that hotspot to share a
bunch of film and TV show torrents. As long as courts keep pretending that an
IP address is the same as a person, it doesn't make sense for small businesses
with small pockets to offer free wifi.

~~~
natrius
Pretty much every coffee shop and at least half of the restaurants I walk into
offer wifi, so I think the problem is smaller than you claim.

------
runn1ng
This is evil on so many levels

~~~
nemothekid
God save us from the evils of complentary free WiFi

------
angersock
Jesus Christ, have we all learned nothing?

It's a swarm of lemmings being led by blind moles.

Fucking awful.

------
jglazko
They lost me at "Check in to Facebook". Anything that requires me to use
Facebook is a non-starter.

------
trevmckendrick
Other than Wifi, does the user get anything out of this deal?

Is another free hotspot worth giving up your data?

It would to me if they made wifi ubiquitous and drop dead easy to use.

That said, I don't think wifi is in the plans of the future. Eventually some
other constant data connection will take its place.

------
acjacobson
I am not really sure why so many people here are alarmed at the privacy
implications. Google or Apple and your ISP / Telecom already know where you
are at all times unless you are one of the very few people that don't carry a
cell phone. Your ISP already knows every site that you look at from your home
computer - how exactly is this different? Why is Facebook inherently any more
or less trustworthy than any of these other companies? They are just happen to
also know where you are when you optionally check in?

------
RankingMember
Well that's an interesting one, dangling free wifi in exchange for
joining/staying on Facebook. Personally, I'd just create a throwaway Facebook
account to use for these.

~~~
sbarre
Do you also have a regular Facebook account?

Because it sounds like this could be tied to your mobile device, which means
it uses the account you've conveniently provided in your OS profile, which
would make this difficult...

~~~
RankingMember
I do, but I wouldn't want to pollute it with silly carrot-and-stick-derived
check-ins. I'd probably just de-link my FB account on my phone and use the
dummy account, then re-link later, depending on how hard up I was for internet
access and the expected wait time.

Most people will just click "accept" without reading anything and status feeds
will be flooded with check-ins.

------
edwhitesell
So, since FB "owns" the user, I wonder if that means this service is compliant
with CALEA
[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CALEA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CALEA)]
or whatever the most current version is. It was a mess to deal with back in
the early 2000's while operating WiFi networks.

If FB is not compliant, maybe the government will make an example out of FB
when they are unable to comply with wiretap requests. IIRC, the fines could be
upwards of $20k/day of non-compliance after receiving a warrant for a specific
user's data.

------
oniTony
Facebook WiFi doesn't take over HTTPS traffic, so I can continue to browse HN
comments without Facebook signin. Actually following links doesn't work as
well on average (even with HTTPS Everywhere).

------
ececconi
My friend owns a small tutoring business. They give out free wifi to all of
their students. I think having this as an option would be a great way for them
to build awareness of their local business.

------
debacle
This could be genius if Facebook puts the right momentum behind it.

------
mrfusion
I'm confused what the end user experience is. Do you need a special app that
somehow goes into your iPhone settings and adds a network? How would it work
on laptops?

~~~
objclxt
I actually came across this in the wild last weekend (Phillz Coffee in Noe,
SF, if anyone is interested).

On a laptop it's no different to any other landing page on a public WiFi
network, except you see a Facebook branded page asking you to check-in to
connect (or to skip check-in, which I did, and it connected me straight away).
Putting privacy concerns aside, it was easy to use and pretty painless.

------
ahugon
This is really cool. Wifi being unavailable "in the wild" is something that
continues to be an annoyance; if this actually starts being adopted by
businesses, I think it could have a massive impact on who patronizes which
establishments.

Ironically, I also view this as potentially helping Google with Chromebook
sales... the more prevalent WiFi becomes, the more useful a Chromebook
becomes.

------
pcl
I wonder if they're doing anything with MAC address correlation to track
devices that do not join their net.

------
vrypan
[http://www.zoottle.com/](http://www.zoottle.com/) does this, but gives you
more control and is not limited to facebook login of course. It also gives you
detailed stats (I didn't see any mention of getting visitor stats by FB wifi).

~~~
michaelmior
The fact that their plans appear include a certain number of Facebook likes
seems very sketchy. However, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and just
assume that this number is the number of users who are given the option to
like your page.

------
lightblade
Then use checkins as loyalty card?

~~~
lucb1e
And after that Facebook implements a feature so that supermarkets and other
businesses don't need to give out cards anymore to track what you buy?

That sounds pretty brilliant. Then they have everything you like (or visit
when there is a FB Like button) (probably also implies political views),
probably your school background and places you worked and lived, places you've
traveled to (FB WiFi!) or came by and your phone automatically connected with
its known MAC address (more FB WiFi!), comments you posted, loads of private
conversations with friends and family, and of course your entire social graph.
And, if you cared to fill it out, your DoB, books you read, movies you've
seen, photos of you and your friends (probably during various activities), and
events you go/went to.

Lovely. Guys, the NSA can quit! All the FBI has to do is submit a data request
and they're golden. Lots of laughs while they sift through your conversations,
searching for what they are actually looking for.

On a more serious note, even if Facebook is not evil at all, and let's say for
the moment that they aren't, that is a scary amount of information in one
place. It would be a shame if anyone hacked it. Or legally obtained it. Or
someone simply made a mistake and gave it out to someone impersonating law
enforcement.

------
cpeterso
Does "Facebook WiFi" allow users to access any web content or just Facebook?
The product page only describes how users and businesses can use a variety of
Facebook features. For many people, Facebook access alone would be good
enough.

------
pherk
This is so cool. It lets Facebook amass a massive amount of data about
customer whereabouts and whatabouts. The incentive for merchants is quite
compelling. However, Facebook needs to do a damn good job to convince the
customers to use it.

~~~
jmathai
Really? I don't think they do at all. I know for certain that if my wife were
at Starbucks and had the option of "sign onto wifi using Facebook" that she
would happily do it.

------
starnix17
Philz Coffee (at least the one at Golden Gate and Larkin) has this. Before you
can access any non-HTTPS pages you get a Facebook page with a big "Check-In"
button and a very small "Skip" button.

------
blueskin_
Another way for facebook to datamine people's personal details. Wonderful.

------
bidev
my 2 cents : people will create fake accounts and will use wifi for p2p

~~~
lucb1e
Psst, don't tip them off

------
dignified_devil
Isn't there a direct relationship between bandwidth speeds and mobile
tethering usage? Is it safe to assume that this (free wifi) will become
obsolete within the next 5 years?

------
al2o3cr
Wow. Given that the default FB setting is "HTTPS off", you might as well just
pass around a note with your FB login + password to everybody else in the
business.

~~~
archivator
Facebook has been https by default since July 2013.
[https://www.facebook.com/notes/facebook-
engineering/secure-b...](https://www.facebook.com/notes/facebook-
engineering/secure-browsing-by-default/10151590414803920)

------
Zigurd
My reaction is "Brilliant, daring!" and "Why did it have to be Facebook? I'm
trying to get away from Facebook."

Time to create a fake Facebook identity.

------
Nikolas0
Sounds like trouble for zoottle.com but I guess their product is a little
different (connected to other networks as well, etc.)

------
zerop
Free wifi would actually help Google more..

------
guloizo
So facebook has launched the next step in their attack on the internet, it's
sad that they are succeeding where microsoft failed two decades ago with their
attempt to replace the internet with their proprietary microsoft network.

------
lucb1e
Well, good thing I have a few accounts handy.

------
gonzo
Yet more "Pay Toilet" WiFi.

------
mergy
Up next: Facebook public toilets. "Like = dump"

------
ihsw
And so Facebook encroaches upon the physical world to anchor itself --
storefront businesses will come to rely on Facebook to sell personalized ads.
I wouldn't be surprised if Facebook gets to access data about who purchases
what and when.

If you don't think Google will be doing the same thing with LTE-enabled cars,
think again. Their partnership with automakers is no small challenge, and the
data gathering opportunity is _massive_.

Google can know that most Honda Civic drivers in Chicago (for example) park
next to McDonald's, and that their phones traveled inside the restaurant --
Facebook will know only that people _checked into_ the restaurant. It stands
to reason that Honda could use this information and market the Civic as "the
best" car for eating at McDonald's. Maybe Honda Civic drivers get a special
McDonald's discount?

Facebook pretty much beat Foursquare to the punch on this one, but (most
interestingly) Foursquare relies on OpenStreetMaps -- what does Facebook use?
Is it proprietary? What is "Places Nearby"?

~~~
Peroni
_And so Facebook encroaches upon the physical world to anchor itself_

Not sure if you intended to sound so pessimistic but surely that's only a good
thing? From a business perspective, this is an incredibly clever service. From
a users perspective, this is an incredibly useful service.

Everyone seems to forget that Facebook users are not the consumer, they are
the product being sold. If, by using this service, Facebook delivers me
alarmingly specific adverts, then so be it. I've yet to be hurt by looking at
an advert.

~~~
ihsw
Oh, most definitely is it a good thing. Their initial foray into consumer
products -- the HTC First -- was an absolute disaster. Strategically speaking
I would not at all be surprised that this quells the fears surrounding
Facebook's future, especially if it gains traction.

We're witnessing the end of anonymous free wifi, and nobody is better equipped
for identifying users than Facebook.

------
zuckerfap
It's always interesting to me how, the more an entity has shown itself to
disregard the privacy and rights of it's users/customers/citizens/etc in the
past, the more people are willing to extend the benefit of the doubt that they
won't continue to do so on new ventures.

This will be abused, they will overstep massively at some point, people will
complain, then they'll take a cosmetic baby step backwards, and possibly
provide their users with a pixelated cow icon to make up for it... then
continue on their way.

I'm guessing everyone has already forgotten about the "we read your posts,
even if you don't post them" thing recently?
[http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-
facebook...](http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-facebook-can-
track-users-unpublished-posts-20131217,0,7847582.story)

------
zuckerfap
I bet Zuckerberg's palms are already starting to sweat just imagining how
easily he can use this feature to get creepy on people.

------
kimonos
No thanks! I still prefer to use my pocket wifi..

------
static_typed
I can see the conversations now: "..and they trust you with their wife data?"

"Dumbfucks".

