
Facebook chooses Canada for Dating feature launch - Futurebot
https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/facebook-dating-1.4824745
======
Spivak
Let's put aside the "Facebook is evil and therefore everything they do is
evil" tangents for a minute since if you're in that boat then its hard to have
a useful discussion about this specific feature. And I want to talk about the
details of Dating.

Facebook is exactly the right company to pull this off in a way that actually
changes the 'industry'. I really want this to be successful and as good as I
hope it can be.

* Dating apps live and die by their userbase so we're already doing pretty good there.

* Using the social graph for matches is _brilliant_ since its actually how people IRL do it and you have a built in endorsement system with mutual friends. Having what amounts to an audit trail of "I know this guy, he's cool" gives me a lot more confidence that I'm not getting into trouble.

* More than any other dating platform they have the tools to combat bots and fakes at scale.

* Strongly connecting dating with IRL identity is basically mandatory for safety.

* Facebook has huge potential to make dating safer by knowing when you're together detecting suspicious activity. Integrating their crisis response system would be a game changer.

* Dating apps necessarily collect a lot of user information, there isn't much way around it, and for all their faults Facebook has way more experience than anyone else in protecting it.

* Good on them for removing picture messages, I can't say I'm ever happy to receive unsolicited dick pics.

~~~
eksemplar
Are you sure facebook is the right app though? They obviously have a large
user base, but is facebook really being used anymore?

This is anecdotal, but everyone in my social circle is considering quitting
facebook. They stick around for the same reason I am, because events are
planned on facebook, because everyone is there.

No one really uses the wall though, and messenger completely died when it
started forcing you to use it on mobile and people simply started using other
message services because half their friends wouldn't respond until they were
at computers.

That's not to say facebook the company is struggling. The wall has moved to
instagram and a lot of people obviously use watsapp, but facebook itself is
almost exclusively a better meetup.

Maybe this is different in the US, and it's certainly anecdotal, but it's the
story I hear everywhere.

The user base is big, like you've said, and that means facebook has better
potential than almost everyone else, I'll agree with you there, at least in
theory. I just don't think Facebook is really a company with enough vision to
disrupt online dating. If they were, they probably wouldn't still be trying to
push facebook as their core product, and certainly not at the expense of their
new apps that people actually like. I mean, it feels like the world is moving
on, and Facebook isn't realising it, maybe because of their company name, but
it just feels like they don't have the or any vision anymore.

~~~
CodeCube
I mean, you kind of answered the question yourself, "considering quitting
facebook. [but] They stick around"

~~~
thanatropism
I spend 4-6 months at a time without logging in. I don't delete my facebook
because I used as a kind of blog for years and don't want to delete all that
content yet.

------
scottlocklin
Internet dating is one of those businesses that superficially seems like it
makes sense; aka "hey, let's use data and statistics to fix people up" -but
ultimately couldn't possibly work to the benefit of the people it purports to
fix up. Two main reasons.

1) Histocompatibility -some people smell right. Some people don't. Chemistry
isn't something you're gonna capture over the internet, even if you enjoy the
online bantz and have tons of stuff in common. Barring breakthroughs in
genetics and even more privacy invasions, the FBs of the world can't help
here.

2) Principal agent problem: for all payment techniques thus explored for
online dating, the interests of the dating service are not in alignment with
daters who want a monogamous LTR. Dating apps who collect monthly fees want to
continue to collect monthly fees. Dating apps that rely on advertising want
continued obsessive engagement. Alignment of interests would look something
like an old school matchmaker who only gets paid if they succeed in making a
match -you're not going to pull this off with an app. Facebook, of course
wants to keep you on their platform.

The statistics, of course, back all this up, for example:
[https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-mating-
game/2016...](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-mating-
game/201609/the-ugly-truth-about-online-dating)

~~~
icebraining
(1) is like saying that job ads don't work, because you still have to
interview candidates. Dating apps get you to meet more people so you can test
that chemistry and have an higher change of finding a match.

~~~
ken
Job matching is drastically asymmetric, though. For a company, it may work,
but from a person's perspective, I wouldn't describe it that way. I don't want
a dating website to treat me as poorly as any job website does.

Simply meeting more people isn't useful unless you have reason to believe the
people are good potential matches -- even if you're on the strong side of the
asymmetry. Companies don't find their new CTO by going through the phone book
in order and interviewing every person.

------
dvtrn
_The offering will support text-only conversations between matches in an
effort to minimize "casual encounters" by building long-term relationships
instead_

What's to prevent two people from having similar interests and deciding they
actually only _want_ a casual encounter? Would that be against terms of using
the feature?

I'm sure fb is probably just trying to absolve themselves of the chances
someone will hook up with a child on the platform but there's probably better
ways, already built into the site, no?

I guess I'm just wondering why Facebook cares if someone just wants a non
committed hookup partner or not. Why do they want even want the burden of
adjudicating completely normal dating and sexual choices?

~~~
DoreenMichele
"Dating" tends to be an asymmetrical market where you cannot be successful (as
a service) unless you can get the heterosexual women to opt in (in
sufficiently large numbers to make the thing make sense). Guys tend to be
openly looking for hookups. Women who are amenable to hookups tend to have
zero problem arranging that. So the people you need to appeal to are the women
looking for a _relationship_ , not a hookup, and who want assurances this will
be wholesome and not another means for total strangers to sexually harass them
with dick pics and the like.

Though I have read a few things that indicate that dating sites have helped
increase the number of interracial marriages and made it much easier for gays
to find a mate. If you are gay and not out to your family or whatever, you can
go on a dating site and admit that you are gay there and it vastly simplifies
navigating a complex situation like that. Some gays still pretend they are
straight and their lover is just a roommate to help make life in the big city
affordable or whatever.

~~~
toomuchtodo
This is why I love Bumble. Women _have_ to reach out first, so its much less
hassle (as a male) of messaging over and over and over again into a black hole
with no response.

> So the people you need to appeal to are the women looking for a
> relationship, not a hookup, and who want assurances this will be wholesome
> and not another means for total strangers to

Not in the casual case. You simply say, "Only looking for hook ups, something
casual, etc". No one's time is wasted. When my Bumble push notification comes
in, I know it's someone who finds me attractive based on my honest photos and
okay with something casual. It's the perfect filter for all involved.

Disclaimer: Still have a Facebook account, but rarely log in.

~~~
DoreenMichele
_Dating_ is an imprecise word that covers both more casual relationships and
the process more rightly called _courtship_. I am not familiar with any sites
that list themselves as _courtship_ sites. (Sites offering that service are
typically listed as _dating_ sites, though some dating sites explicitly cater
to either/both.) Courtship is the process of sorting out who is a good match
for a long term relationship and forming that bond and so forth.

Courtship typically requires one to also sort out how you fit into the larger
social fabric of each other's lives. In contrast, hookups or casual flings
typically are looking to cut you out of the fabric of their social lives.
People generally don't want to introduce casual sexual relationships to
important people in their lives, thus expressions like "The kind you don't
take home to mother."

Facebook is a social network. Their value position naturally readily aligns
with the idea of courtship and they are apparently going with that.

I don't use either dating sites or hookup sites. I'm not the target market.
I'm just making observations based on reading up on how asymmetrical markets
work and this is a standard thing that you run across. I have read that it is
why you see "Ladies night" at bars. The guys are going to be there anyway. You
need to find some means to entice the women to show up.

(Disclaimer: I also don't drink, so this is just stuff I have read about
working with asymmetrical markets and developing a service when you have a
chicken-and-egg problem.)

~~~
toomuchtodo
Agree entirely. If I had to do it all over again, I'd want a co-parenting
website, to find a partner of sufficient character and grit to have kids with,
but we'd both be free to date other people while raising our kids together.
Who I want to have kids with, have a casual relationship with, or enjoy
activities together with might not be the same person.

Social networks are part of the problem, but people not knowing what they want
is also part of the problem. People are hard, and cannot be solved with
engineering.

~~~
gowld
That sounds nice in theory, but why do you think your coparent would be
interested in such an arrangement? Dating your spouse is far easier
logisitically than dating anyone else, once you have kids eating up your time.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Because they too don’t want a monogamous relationship (ie polyamorous
lifestyle). Life is too short to commit to only one person (my opinion, ymmv).

Shared Google calendars solve the logistics issue.

------
dgzl
I'm speaking as a long term and paid user of both Tinder and OKC. Online
dating is complete garbage and I feel regret every time I open the services.
The fact that Facebook is joining the game makes my stomach churn.

~~~
Rinzler89
It's only garbage when you're not in the top 10% of desirable males or top 80%
of desirable females :)

------
gaius
I am happily married now (and haven’t used FB in a year) but this strikes me
as a terrible idea. Why would you want dating and current and previous
partners integrated with the entire rest of your social life? This just has
drama written all over it. Then again it’s good for engagement I guess.

~~~
nano81
Your dating profile is not linked to your regular FB profile/network when
shown to other daters

~~~
r00fus
So I read up on this. If FB Dating is almost a separate network (you have to
opt-in) then what's the point?

Given the profile example, it seems hard to be somewhat pseudonymous... I
could probably look that person up as a 2nd - 3rd order connection on FB or
e.g. Linkedin.

I don't see a draw to this app.

~~~
wild_preference
Tinder used to require a connection with your Facebook account so that you
could only use pictures that you've used in your profile-picture history on
Facebook.

I thought it was brilliant because now all pictures have to at least pass the
social proof of being one of your public profile pics. It's more trustworthy.
Though they've since relaxed the requirement, probably because they didn't
want to be so tied to Facebook.

It's true that you can often google/facebook search matches on dating sites. I
have done that before just to get a better idea of who someone is. But that
already exists.

But I think there is value in enforcing a Facebook profile linkage to a dating
profile. It's hard to bullshit, and it's harder for someone to then waste your
time.

------
cschmidt
This is kind orthogonal to comments about the FB dating features, but my
company chose to launch a major feature this week in Canada as well. I guess
it is the natural choice as: 1) it is English speaking, so it is easier for
our English speaking employees to diagnose, 2) it is small enough that the
traffic won't be too much, 3) roughly the same time zones as our devs so we
can be online at the same time.

~~~
soperj
Not sure if you're actually unaware, but a large portion of the population
here speaks French (1/5th) as their first language.

~~~
cschmidt
Sure, of course you're right. Our website is in 26 languages, so they would
have been accommodated. I was just meaning Canada would allow English speaking
developers to use the site and debug issues.

------
devit
Seems potentially great.

The problem with apps like Tinder is that they focus essentially only on your
skill at taking photos, posing for them and retouching them and secondarily on
your appearance, and obviously photo-taking skills are completely irrelevant
and appearance is at best secondary even for one-night stands.

Hopefully Facebook can actually deliver matches based more on personality,
what someone is looking for and how pleasant a person is in general.

------
analyst74
I'm a little confused, the article mentioned that

> The offering will support text-only conversations between matches in an
> effort to minimize "casual encounters" by building long-term relationships
> instead

But then showed a screenshot similar to Tinder, with pictures and stuff. What
exactly is it, text-only or tinder-copy?

~~~
dao-
I think it means people can't send pictures (of their penises etc.). Profile
pictures are public anyway.

------
throwapay232
I've used tinder/bumble since their inception, even had 3 long(ish)
relationships form. I think the value the apps bring is connecting people who
would never meet irl (i.e many degrees of social separation). I don't like the
idea of only connecting friends of friends, it promotes insular social
circles, harder for bigger cities to become open when everyone stays in their
cliche. I feel this becoming more of a thing with social media, people are
losing the ability to branch out.

Like others have already commented, the apps also put females on a pedestal to
a ridiculous degree. I'm (barely) in the range of "top" males and even getting
a lot of matches (~10-20 a day), the number of girls who are open and willing
to create a genuine connection (on the app) is approaching 1 in 100.

------
jhanschoo
I think FB is well-positioned to provide a better online dating experience
than specialized online dating platforms. Specialized online dating platforms
have a disincentive to cater to people looking for stable relationships, since
these people typically stop using the platform once they have found a match.
For example, I find that OkCupid's redesign last year/earlier this year (I
forget the exact time interval when) smells of a reorientation towards
catering to heavy users of the platform.

FB users, on the other hand, probably do not see (or see as much) a decrease
in activity if/when they enter a stable relationship, and so FB can be more
well-aligned with the relationship goals of its users.

------
Waterluvian
I don't want my friend circles anywhere near my dating. I'd be terrified to
even try, lest Facebook try to optimize some synergy and starts suggesting to
girls that I want to go on dates with them.

------
ravenstine
> "Arguably folks should be more comfortable with Facebook now given all the
> scrutiny they have gone through in terms of their recent missteps because
> everyone is watching everything they have done,"

That's quite the logic we have here. I feel sorry for anyone who buys it.

------
greendestiny_re
Facebook Dating is going to encounter the exact same problem all dating apps
do – too many men aggressively soliciting their matches and too few women
responding to such solicitations.

By the way, did anyone notice the linked CBC article has nearly all paragraphs
consisting of a single sentence, two at most?

------
ohkaiby
It's gonna be interesting to see how existing dating services who use
Facebook/other social graphs (like Coffee Meets Bagel) will react to this new
service.

------
simlevesque
How can I enable it ?

------
xfitm3
Interesting feature. However, I choose to date people who don't use facebook.

------
LinuxBender
Isn't this what Mark Z. originally created FB for in the first place?

------
thelastidiot
Canada is the beta testing country of the USA.

~~~
giarc
Except when you are beta testing a populist leader.

------
dbg31415
The problem is that nobody under 50 still uses Facebook, and all the 50+
dating is handled by eHarmony.

Said in jest... but not really.

------
booleandilemma
Will LinkedIn follow, I wonder?

~~~
mrfusion
Coming to your contacts inbox soon:

“Congratulate booleandilemma on their upcoming date”

------
buboard
This is going to be huge.

------
linkerzx
its singles day everywhere! this week!

------
kache_
This is a great opportunity for selective breeding of humans. Promote the
mating of people who are more susceptible to ads.

~~~
TomMarius
I don't think that's a thing. These traits are not inheritable as these are
predominantly shaped by parents/school/other kids/culture.

However I most certainly hope they will try to introduce a "genetic mate"
feature - that finds someone who is a good mate based on both genetic AND
social factors.

Even better if they analyze what I like - including appearance.

~~~
SpanishConf
Can't wait until my mate, my job, my life, and my position in society is
decided before I am even born :)

Yay!

~~~
jackpirate
Your parents' salaries do a very good job of predicting all of that already.

~~~
bootaccount
I disagree. My parents emigrated to different lands (with me) to provide me
additional opportunity to excel. I'm early into my career and have a higher
salary [6fig] than my parents', primarily due to the sacrifices they made over
the years.

My job, life and other attributes couldn't have been predicted by salary nor
any other vanity metric.

~~~
Joe-Z
But just the fact that your parents emigrated makes you part of a fringe
group.

GP's point, as far as I understand, wasn't that it's impossible to move up the
social ladder, just that it doesn't happen for most people.

~~~
dagoat
> it doesn't happen for most people.

Is there data showing that?

~~~
the_duke
The only widely available data that comes to mind for me is social mobility
aka economic mobility.

It's not so easy to find a good compiled list by country but here s a start
(see especially the chart at the bottom):
[http://www.verisi.com/resources/prosperity-upward-
mobility.h...](http://www.verisi.com/resources/prosperity-upward-mobility.htm)

