
CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows - Someone
https://www.hanskamp.nl/en/cowtoilet
======
leroy_masochist
Not sure how this makes a lot of sense commercially. By way of background I
work remotely from my family's small cattle farm (we have 225ish head of
grass-only fed cattle).

In simple terms, cow piss has a bunch of nitrogen in it which makes the grass
grow faster (especially when you have a well developed soil biome).

I watched the video and appreciate that quality engineering went into this
product, I just don't get why it would make sense for any farmer who has cows
in pasture to invest in this technology, even if it were available at mass-
produced-in-Asia prices. More specifically, it's hard to imagine a use case
for cow piss that makes it valuable enough that I'm going to spend tens or
hundreds of thousands of dollars on machinery to harvest it, at an opportunity
cost of less nitrogen going into my fields.

Maybe it makes more sense for feedlots? They get a bunch of nasty health
issues going on with their animals living in mucky high-density conditions, so
reducing the ammonia in the muck might lower the amount of sores their animals
have, or something like that. But taking a step back, I guess I don't get the
general wisdom of inventing technology that makes bad practices marginally
better on the animals and/or environment.

~~~
michaelbuckbee
In the "Death of the Family Dairy Farm" article that was on HN the other day,
the clear trend was toward CAFO's (Concentrated Animal Feedlot Operations) -
aka giant farms.

Along with these, there are really clear environmental impacts as the density
of the herd/land is just overwhelming to the point where it's not "cows
fertilizing the field" but being legally required to create massive manure
lagoons, etc.

What's clever about the cow toilet is that it opens up new options for
treatment of both manure and urine.

This is the article from the other day, find "manure lagoon" in it to see all
the problems

[https://blog.abevoelker.com/2019-03-06/on-the-death-of-my-
fa...](https://blog.abevoelker.com/2019-03-06/on-the-death-of-my-familys-
dairy-farm/)

~~~
elmolino89
There are places where animal manure is being used for the biogas production.
The scale of the cesspool in the link is way above any small farm biogas tank,
but then there must be better ways to speed up the biological decomposition of
the manure. Mixing it with plant material, increasing surface and pumping air
i.e.

------
markstos
Eating less meat and dairy also helps solve the ammonia problem.

Plant-rich diets have been identified as a top solution to climate change.

[https://www.drawdown.org/solutions-summary-by-
rank](https://www.drawdown.org/solutions-summary-by-rank)

Harvard research found switching away from dairy products to be a _necessary_
contribution to meeting climate change goals:

[https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14693062.2018.1...](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14693062.2018.1528965?af=R&)

~~~
SeriousM
Or no meat at all! I can't say how much wrong it is to rape cows, steal their
kids and after many births kill it. And now someone wants to take them the
pleasure to pee whenever they want? WTF is wrong with this guys? Diary farms
are a very bad place already...

~~~
toper-centage
Killing this cows is probably the best thing farmer's do to them, considering
the helish life they live.

------
londons_explore
If the urine goes on the field, then the farmer gets to dispose of it for
free.

If the urine gets collected in tanks, suddenly it's hazardous liquid waste and
very expensive to dispose of. The farmer couldn't just dump it in a river!

Unless a commercial use for cow urine can be found, or laws changed, I can't
imagine this product going anywhere.

~~~
cwkoss
The idea that technology will allow us to keep cows happy and healthy in
cramped prison-like conditions seems like incredible hubris.

It seems like a much better solution to this 'problem' is let cows live
outdoors and graze on grass.

FDA should mandate that all cows raised in confinement conditions get labeled
as "prison beef'.

~~~
vlan0
>It seems like a much better solution to this 'problem' is let cows live
outdoors and graze on grass.

With the number of cattle on this planet, this would require an insane amount
of land.

>FDA should mandate that all cows raised in confinement conditions get labeled
as "prison beef'.

I'm sure people would consume less if the simply put slaughter pictures on
each piece of meat they buy. Rather than outsource the killing to a third
party, which keeps people emotionally detached from the killing of billions of
animals every year.

~~~
NeedMoreTea
> this would require an insane amount of land

Which would constrain consumption, and cause prices to rise. Eventually we
might end up at a sustainable amount. If that means most of us can't afford
nearly as much, then that is probably _great_ for our future and the planet.

> if the simply put slaughter pictures on each piece of meat they buy

Hmm. Sounds reasonable, except pictures alone didn't do that much to smoking
rates. Pricing and eliminating marketing did.

~~~
nightski
Except smoking is actively harmful to your body. Meat is much more
controversial. Actually, it's not a controversy at all to many practitioners
and doctors promoting a low carb lifestyle. There is a lot of scientific
evidence to support eating meat of all kinds being incredibly healthy!

So comparing eating meat to smoking seems pretty ridiculous.

Also if you look at government reports on greenhouse gas emissions animal
agriculture only accounts for < 3% of U.S. emissions. It's a factor for sure,
but not worth our primary focus imho.

~~~
NeedMoreTea
Except I am only comparing the effect dramatic pictures had on sales. (Not
that much). I'm not equating the two in terms of health or legislation that
should be brought forth. Implying I am seems pretty ridiculous. :p

Rising meat prices, for whatever reason, would tend to reduce consumption.

~~~
nightski
It depends on the type of marketing those pictures were. Pictures used in
anti-smoking campaigns were of the humans consuming them and the related
health issues that ensued. They weren't of manufacturing cigarettes.

If you showed a bunch of in shape healthy people on low carb diets I'm not
sure that would cause meat sales to decline.

If you mean slaughter, well maybe it would have an effect on sales, maybe it
wouldn't. But it's not comparable to the anti-smoking ads.

------
chris_va
> "Once located, the nerve, which triggers the urinary reflex, is stimulated
> and the cow starts urinating. ... The visit to the toilet is combined with
> the receival[sic] of their daily portion of feed."

May be stretching the definition of voluntary.

~~~
loceng
Yeah, using the word voluntary is disingenuous. I'd be interested to see
third-party research to determine if there's a developed preference, where
both options are provided to cows - two different physical locations that they
are both introduced to, and see if they're indifferent or if a percentage
prefers one or the other.

~~~
mft_
Cows have learned to voluntarily (genuinely) use automatic milking machines.

(Now, apparently they like it because of the relief it provides to their
swollen udders, which are swollen thanks to the hormonal state they are kept
in, but still...)

------
munificent
Very disappointed they didn't call this a "moo loo".

~~~
wesammikhail
you should consider a career in marketing!

~~~
xrd
Cows don't have much purchasing power, so you are wrong.

------
fbelzile
I really like the design of the product logo:
[https://www.hanskamp.nl/uploads/webshop/products/2019/jan/ha...](https://www.hanskamp.nl/uploads/webshop/products/2019/jan/hanskampcowtoiletlogodef_25.png)

For some reason, it's oddly satisfying to see two concepts merge into one
cohesive logo.

~~~
mbel
I have the exact opposite feeling. Connecting head with toilet feels somehow
wrong and I don't really feel comfortable looking at the logo. Also the
"recycling-ears" feels like unnecessary addition to main concept of unholy
merge of cow with toilet.

~~~
sxates
a "golden cow" so to speak?

------
bloudermilk
> Noteworthy is that cows visit the CowToilet voluntarily. The visit to the
> toilet is combined with the receival of their daily portion of feed.

"Voluntarily"... right

~~~
AnIdiotOnTheNet
I guess it is roughly true, in the same way that employment is voluntary.

------
zerop
People in India drink cow urine. It's considered holy and healthy.. Google
"why indians drink cow urine".

~~~
muthuraj57
*Some people in India

~~~
elbrian
OP didn't say "all people in India" so your correction isn't at all necessary
or helpful.

~~~
joemi
It's an understandable correction though. For instance, if one were to say
"People in the US are are Nazis" you can be certain many people would argue
that a correction is both necessary and helpful.

------
jv22222
For me, it's really sad to see animals in that high density scenario as shown
in the video. I'm not a plant based eater but I do feel myself getting pulled
in that direction as time goes by.

~~~
toper-centage
I want everyone to go vegan, but I'm pragmatic and can recognize it's a life
changing choice. But eating vegan 2-3 days a week is already a healthy step
for you and you'll be saving 100+ animals per year from this kind of
treatment. (source:
[http://thevegancalculator.com/#calculator](http://thevegancalculator.com/#calculator))

------
peterwwillis
This just makes me want to consume dairy/meat less, and I'm an omnivore.

~~~
fnovd
Technically vegans are omnivores, too: being an omnivore means you are able to
consume both plants and animals. Humans as a species are omnivores. _Choosing_
to consume animal products is something else. I had always considered being an
omnivore exclusive from being a vegan but I didn't have a good answer for lack
of symmetry between a diet I am _capable_ of eating and the diet I _do_ eat.
The "vegan" word for it is Carnism [1].

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnism)

~~~
aviv
Humans are frugivores, you got your whole history/life concepts wrong.

------
ChuckMcM
I think it is great that people are working on solving problems like this. As
a feed stock for other processes I'm guessing that the big win here would be
use in a modified Haber process to produce bulk Ammonia which is used in a
number of chemical plants.

------
cw-dunn
My husband sent this to me.

We had a small Jersey house cow,years ago, with only 1 ac to graze and 1/4 ac
veg garden, that one cow produced more nutrient load than the land could
absorb... composted before (there by reducing volume) spreading. Friends with
a real dairy herd had 150 acres to use, and even they had a problem using it
all.

This device is brilliant for the larger milk producers, and even a small New
England Herds kept inside for the winter. Even a few hours eating in the
atanchion barn leaves a lot of waste. To be able to collect and redirect this
urine is solving Many problems on many levels. It makes a world of Common
Sense to Me.

As to the manure waste, many country’s burn dry dung, and the clever folks who
designed ‘Cow Pots’, have redirected manure in a beneficial way.

In Africa they still ‘pave’ the floors with cow dung and seal it with blood.
It wouldn’t be a Martha Stewart approved design here, but certainly dried dung
(mostly odorless cellulose) could be added to wood chips and made into bricks
for fuel.

I think the Cow Toilet is a practical device and hope it will be affordable to
any dairy that wants to implement it.

As for feed lots like the escresent ones in Coilinga CA.& elsewhere, be they
Bovine or Porcine, or poultry; understand that the rules on the books need to
be Enforced, and the graft/lobbyist elements removed. They’d get cleaned up or
shut down darn fast without the greedy business machinery supporting them in
government hallways.

A restoration farmers point of view from seven decades looking at life

------
amarant
I'm not sure this makes any kind of sense actually. My girlfriend, who is a
biologist and works at a waste water treatment plant, tells me the ammonia
from (cow out any other kind of) urine isn't really that much of a problem.
There are other components that might be (mostly residues from various
medicines, but those are hard to separate from the water) but according to
her, ammonia is essentially less of a problem than the erosion caused by the
cows walking on the ground in most cases.

~~~
Someone
These cows typically don’t walk on ground; they walk on a floor in a stable,
and ammonia is a problem in the Netherlands, if only because the EU has set
sets national emission reduction commitments
([https://www.eea.europa.eu/themes/air/national-emission-
ceili...](https://www.eea.europa.eu/themes/air/national-emission-
ceilings/national-emission-ceilings-directive)), and cattle farms are a major
source of ammonia.

------
morningmoon
So now we’re going to force them to pee by stimulating their urinary nerves!?

Another reason to stop our inhumane practice of enslaving, raping, and
slaughtering cows to serve our tastes. We don’t need to do this to have
nutritious healthy lives.

~~~
nkkollaw
> Another reason to stop our inhumane practice of enslaving, raping, and
> slaughtering cows to serve our tastes.

Do a lot of people really rape cows..?

~~~
morningmoon
Only cows that have been pregnant produce milk. Cows are made pregnant to
increase the duration of milk production, and to produce more cows for dairy
or meat. (Edited for clarity)

The process of artificial insemination involves sticking a rod/hand with bull
semen into their vaginas. Just do a quick search for this and you can see
videos of how artificial insemination works. There’s also a process of hormone
injections to ensure cows sync up for more efficient AI.

Usually most farmers justify this by talking about how it’s safer than letting
a bull fuck the cow while it’s confined to a pen (how it was done in a bygone
era).

Oh, and if you’re wondering about how they get the bull semen they have them
fuck artificial vaginas, or masturbate them if that’s not working out.

~~~
simion314
>Only pregnant cows produce milk. Not true, a cow will produce milk many
months after she gives birth.

Cows naturally get into heat, the behavior of the cow changes, she will start
jumping on other cows and it is dangerous to be around it, you have to bring a
bull or have it inseminated.

I know this because I was raised at a low tech farm, I am not aware of
procedures or reasons to make a cow get pregnant more often but maybe this
exists somewhere, if this was true probably it would be used for getting more
meat not more milk,

Anyway there is no rape involved, if is artificial inseminated then it is a
medical procedure, similar how fixing cows birth problems that involved
doctors pushing their full arms in the cow is a medical procedure to save the
cow.

~~~
scotty79
Any medical procedure without a consent is an assault. Then again sometimes
consent can be inferred...

~~~
simion314
Are you sure on ANY? how do you get consent from your pet to treat it?

------
danielecook
What about capturing methane from cows? Isn't that arguably bigger problem?
Cows emit an enormous amount of methane which is a much more potent greenhouse
gas than CO2.

~~~
mchannon
Careful with the whataboutism. Methane's largely been solved by food additives
that discourage methanogenic bacteria. We're talking about urine and ammonia
right now.

Methane is more potent as a greenhouse gas, but it's shorter-lived, way less
of a contributor to global warming than CO2, and doesn't appear to have
anywhere near as much impact on the health or growth of animals or plants as
heightened CO2 levels do.

~~~
Pharmakon
Solved, but not implemented on a wide scale. I don’t know if it’s the added
cost, availability or what else, but solved problems aren’t really solved if
the solution is never implemented.

------
CodeCube
> Urine as a businessmodel

lol ... I think this is enough internet for today

~~~
djsumdog
The video was so serious, but the 7 year old deep inside of me was just
laughing the whole way through. I wonder if they realized the absurdity of
this as they were making the marketing materials.

------
rdiddly
This partly addresses problems pointed out a few days ago in this:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19368542](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19368542)

It's neat when that happens on HN.

------
droithomme
That's extremely cool. It serves a need and apparently (according to their
description) it actually works and the cows will use it.

 _(And obviously not needed for free-range grass-fed cows as opposed to
congested feed lot cows.)_

------
Noxmiles
I understood the concept, after he made the cow pee with his hand within 10
seconds of stroking her slowly and tenderly.

------
toper-centage
They call it "voluntary" then say the creepy machine locates a nerve in the
cows rear and stimulates it to induce urination. Nothing voluntary about
forced urination... But these are animals routinely force-impregnated so maybe
they're used to be abused.

------
hsnewman
Is there a bull toilet?

~~~
gatherhunterer
“Cow” includes bulls, heifers and steer.

~~~
bunderbunder
That might be something that varies regionally.

In the usage I'm familiar with, "cow" specifically means a female who has
given birth. As opposed to heifers, who haven't. The general term for any
member of the species would be cattle (both singular and plural). You might
use "cows" to more generally mean any female cattle, but using it to include
males of the species, too, would be understood as humorous.

~~~
gatherhunterer
What is your source for this information? I have worked with meat for years
and have never heard anyone react with humor to steers or bulls being referred
to as cows. Go into a butcher shop and ask where their cows are raised and
they will answer you without hesitation. Ask them without using the word and
they will readily refer to beef as having come from a cow.

EDIT: Even googling "beef cows" provides a wealth of contradictions to your
statement.

~~~
bunderbunder
My source for this information is how the language is spoken among members of
my social circle. Which admittedly doesn't include any butchers, just dairy
farmers. Maybe our social circles are different. That's regional variation for
you.

------
hereiskkb
Get it to India. Huge potential market!

------
bensonn
From the inventor of the Moth Ladder.

------
dkarl
The product video shows the device working... after it shows a guy doing the
same thing manually.

------
Magi604
Outside the box thinking!

------
smnplk
Now just make bottled water from cow urine and profit.

------
therein
I thought it was going to turn out to be a new copy-on-write zero-day given
the name.

~~~
grenoire
The vulgar cousin of Heartbleed and Meltdown.

------
sangd
Most of cow's methane comes from his mouth, not the other side.

~~~
sabareesh
Not sure why this is being downvoted. I am not sure even ammonia is even a
problem to start according to the top comment here

------
uhtred
"cow friendly" whilst showing a picture of a cow in a cage. Fuck dairy.

~~~
skrebbel
Picture any human on a toilet and it'll effectively also be a "human in a
cage". What's the difference?

~~~
floatingatoll
To an outsider, the metal bars remind of both human jails and stacked chicken
cages.

It’s not easy to realize that they have to look like jail cell bars in order
to avoid being damaged by the cow, and it’s not well-known that cows are
taught to enter metal frames for food and such to let human work on and around
them occur more safely.

Humans don’t as often need metal bars to avoid knocking the bathroom walls
down, but when we need metal bars for support (ADA bathrooms), they look a lot
like the cow bars.

------
dev_dull
I love our society. Always chasing after solutions to things that aren’t
really problems. Ban straws. Ban glasses of water. Ban cow pee. Forget that
none of those things here make any material difference.

~~~
markstos
Single-use plastics is a big problem. It gets solved by chipping away it from
a lot of different angles. Plastic straws are one piece of the problem.

My family loves straws and brings steel straws when we go out. No big deal. No
one is banning steel straws.

The only hit I get when I search for "ban glasses of water" is this post.
Perhaps you referring to bottled water? That's another piece of the single-use
plastics problem.

Shifting away animal agriculture is one the top solutions for climate change (
[https://www.drawdown.org/solutions-summary-by-
rank](https://www.drawdown.org/solutions-summary-by-rank) ). So yes, cows and
all their poop and pee are a very real problem. I don't think moving the piss
around differently is nearly as a good solution as breeding and killing fewer
cows, though!

~~~
UncleEntity
> The only hit I get when I search for "ban glasses of water" is this post.

Used to be when you went to a restaurant they would automatically bring a
glass of water to your table. Then "they" decided this was a bad thing so now
you have to specifically ask for water if you want water.

~~~
Pharmakon
I go out to eat at least twice a week, and I’ve never run into this. It sounds
like the Daily Mail fed Grandpa Simpson LSD and wrote down whatever he
mumbled.

~~~
aidenn0
I live in the 8% of california that just recently went from "drought" to
"abnormally dry" and water only upon request is normal here.

~~~
Pharmakon
Fair enough, but that’s just one state out of fifty, and in the context of a
wider world as well.

------
lwb
Wait why is this here?

~~~
ocdtrekkie
It's a new invention/technology, it has potential impact on our environment,
and it's interesting.

------
t3rabytes
This is such a shitty product. (/s)

Edit: okay, clearly someone didn't get the pun.

~~~
PunksATawnyFill
They’re just being pissy.

~~~
LifeLiverTransp
urinit to deep

