
Laptop of choice for a Programmer, Need Help - alnayyir
I'm going to be getting a new laptop soon for a variety of reasons. Also, I have a list of necessities and niceties I'd like to see in a laptop.<p>Reasons for getting a new laptop:
1. My 14" Dell 600m is falling apart, literally. Pieces of the case are falling off. I get electrocuted by the battery regularly. The screen hinges are on their last leg.<p>2. I need a reliable back-up machine because my desktop has some serious irreconcilable gremlims. This is particularly true because I tend to rage if I lose code when a machine goes down.<p>3. I just lost ~$1500 of stuff including my desktop computer monitor (amongst other things) and had to borrow a couple CRTs from some friends to get my desktop back up and running. I'd like to invest in a machine I tote with me.<p>Necessities:
1. DVD Burner. Non-negotiable.
2. Not 17", not a netbook.<p>Niceties:
1. Mac OS X. Huge bonus. This means hardware that can run mac OS X natively that isn't a netbook, or an actual macbook if there are no options. (I haven't found such a non-apple laptop that is not a netbook and can run leopard natively, do you guys know of one that isn't an MSI Wind or Dell Mini 9?)<p>I want the unix without the hassle. I likes my bash, but the situation with Linux and the lack of robustness for the power user/home user is getting absurd. I've been using Linux for a decade, and I'm tired of hoping it'll sort itself out.<p>2. Something under $1.5k, preferably under $1k. I'll take suggestions above that mark if they're sufficiently z0mg-great, but I just had a lot of stuff stolen and don't need to dump a car worth's of cash on a laptop.<p>3. Within the 13-14" range. 12s are too small for long-term use, 15s too big for what I use a laptop for. 13 and 14 is usually perfect. I can deal with 15 for the right laptop.<p>4. A graphics chip that can run a few games (Eve Online in my case) is a plus. This is particularly notable because again, if deskie goes down, it'd be nice if this could take up <i>all</i> functions inherent to my desktop. Not a necessity for the right laptop.<p>5. Illuminated keyboard. Wicked yo.<p>CANDIDATES SO FAR:<p>New Last-gen Macbook: $999 &#60;=== this is shaping up to be a poor deal. No DVD-burner, integrated graphics, and high'ish price. However, this can be rectified with a refurb model I found from apple. $949 for 2.4GHz White model with DVD Burner and 2 GB of ram.<p>XPS M1330: This occurred to me because of CodingHorror, but fer godssakes, in order to get the dedicated graphics I hit the macbook price point, which at that point, I'm buying a macbook.<p>Dell Studios and Inspirons are out of the question. Price efficient to an extent, but too big and the reasonable-sized Inspiron (13") isn't easy to turn into an all-rounder without making it get within sniffing distance of the $949 Macbook.<p>Lenovo Thinkpads (T400/X300?):
Wonderful machines, and I love the hardware compatibility with Linux/BSD. However, the price enters the stratosphere quickly (buying a macbook at that point, again), and the build quality isn't as good as it used to be. I have nothing but love for the trackpoint though. A trackpoint is the only interface related improvement I could make upon a macbook pro personally.<p>Sony VAIO Laptops: Great build quality, I like the chiclet keyboards (not just because apple uses them, I'm just fast with them). Nice machines, and the price isn't as bad as it used to be, but it's impossible to get one with something better than integrated graphics without bumping into macbook territory. The accessories are hell on earth expensive too, like Lenovo.<p>What do you guys use? How do you use it? How many of you are using Macs? Seems like a lot these days.<p>Software I use:<p>I do do some .NET programming, but I'd like to migrate to using more python/ruby. I don't mind dual-booting a mac in case I need to.<p>EDIT: Another plus to the Macs is I'd love to give iphone dev a try!<p>Suggestions?
======
astrec
Sounds like you really want a MacBook - you'll find a way to amortize the
couple of hundred bucks extra it'll cost.

As for me, I use a 1st gen black MacBook w/Leopard, added a bigger HDD and
aftermarket RAM to 2GB. I use a Logitech V470 bluetooth mouse which I carry
everywhere, and I've got a couple of bluetooth apple keyboards (shorties
without the num pad) - one for the office and one at home. For external
monitors I've got a cheap Dell 23" widescreen in each location.

For the occasional Windows mission (usually to load updates to my N95) I was
using Win XP via Parallels, but my experience with the performance of the last
few releases has left me wanting and I'm currently using a trial copy of
VMWare Fusion.

~~~
alnayyir
How's fusion?

~~~
chris123
VirtualBox is free / open source: <http://www.virtualbox.org/>

From the site: Runs on Windows, Linux, Macintosh and OpenSolaris hosts and
supports a large number of guest operating systems including but not limited
to Windows (NT 4.0, 2000, XP, Server 2003, Vista), DOS/Windows 3.x, Linux (2.4
and 2.6), Solaris and OpenSolaris, and OpenBSD.

On this site, you can find sources, binaries, documentation and other
resources for VirtualBox. For up-to-date press coverage about VirtualBox:
blogs.sun.com/VirtualBoxBuzz

------
TheNational22
This may not be popular, but, I use HP laptops almost exclusively, I'm a
Python and PHP mostly programmer (I have been learning Java for about a year),
and I have three HP laptops. A dv2300 pavilion, an HDX 16, and an older one,
can't remember series, that still works. They all dual boot windows and linux
(sorry, no OSX, just doesn't appeal to me). As long as you can easily add ram
and HDD's (one of the reasons apple doesn't appeal to me), almost any
mainstream laptop will suit your needs

~~~
alnayyir
I've used HPs, they feel like they're made of the plastic they make trash cans
out of. Keyboards are just as bad. They make me want to cry because I know
what kind of hardware HP is capable of making.

~~~
kajecounterhack
actually the new HP line is really really popular (HP has surpassed dell as
the #1 PC maker) -- and the quality isn't bad at all. you can get the latest
nvidia geforce 9800go with a 17 inch screen, dvd burner. if you get the really
popular models, hackintosh is a snap (there's one hackintosh thing that makes
it super easy, I dont remember if its iatkos or something else...) -- and
linux is also.

keep in mind that on ANY computer, you can install windows and dual boot
ubuntu with the WUBI installer, which is a REAL linux installation that uses
your windows partition to run (so it doesnt use the extention filesystem).
that solves the "hassle free linux" problem.

I personally have been using a Dell Precision M70 Workstation with a Quadro
1400go gfx (1920x1200 res) for the past 3 and a half years, which has been
awesome. Like you, my system got old, and I customized a cyberpower laptop for
1 grand. I got geforce 8600gt (yes last gen I know but that was months ago),
core 2 duo (the fastest I could afford at the time), minimum ram (I bought
another 4gb later to install), dvd burner, and all that jazz.

Love it.

~~~
alnayyir
I've been using Linux for a long time. What exactly is the hassle with
repartitioning a machine or resizing an NTFS partition?

The partitions were _never_ my problem.

Here are my problems:

Fucking sound will break when I update my software as Ubuntu asks me to do.

I'll fix this, install compiz, then X.org will break. Uninstall compiz, get X
back, but on the wrong resolution.

Fix the xorg.conf, get my resolution back. Now my 3d Acceleration isn't
working.

Install propietary drivers, fix xorg.conf AGAIN. Fix my resolution AGAIN.

Now I'm back in my desktop, and I haven't installed Java, flash, mono
(UGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH), or much of anything else.

Wubi slows it down too.

There is no single laptop model that I know of that is 100% hackintosh
compatible other than the MSI Wind, and I'm not looking to purchase a toy.

~~~
kajecounterhack
I don't know, when you said you had linux problems I assumed you were new to
it and that installation might be a problem. Sorry I assumed wrong...

If you're asking for anything 100% "hackintosh compatible" I don't know what
to tell you. By 100% you mean pop DVD, install and go, no? Well, that's asking
for a bit much. I have friends who have it running on dell and HP laptops all
around. All took plenty of screwing around. And same goes for linux. If you
can't deal with driver issues, you probably shouldn't be using linux...though
you say you've used it for a long time. Are you just fed up now?

May I add that Wubi eliminates all those problems, and the slowdown is
minimal. It really is, I used a wubi installation for quite a long time.

There is another option: install ubuntu with wubi, and then use LVPM.

here: [http://www.linuxhaxor.net/2008/12/06/graduate-from-a-wubi-
in...](http://www.linuxhaxor.net/2008/12/06/graduate-from-a-wubi-install-to-a-
dedicated-partition/)

It even says "Purely performance wise you won’t see much difference when you
move from a wubi install to a dedicated install - considering that you have a
fairly fast hard drive and that your windows partition is not heavily
fragmented."

Also, you have been checking dealcatcher.com and slickdeals.net right? there
are a lot of sites out there with awesome deals on laptops that you can get
cheap (and reliable). I mean if the only game you're playing is EVE, you
really don't need more than any discrete gfx card 2 or 3 generations old,
counting from today, right?

~~~
alnayyir
Capable of handling driver issues, I'm just losing my patience with how it
seems to waste gobs of my time.

You're correct on the gfx chip.

I've been having stability issues on my desktop that prevent me of late from
using anything other than...get this...Windows XP. Everything else freezes in
the install. I'd forgotten about wubi. I'll get my unix fix that way.

Make no mistake, I'm not comfortable with the control Apple exerts over the
hardware and software.

EDIT: Btw, Windows 7 is very nice if you use windows on a regular basis. Very
fast on my 14" Dell 1.4 GHz Celeron 1GB Radeon 9000.

------
old-gregg
Ughh... Tough times... Seems like right now there aren't any usable notebooks
on the market. I have two of the "dream" machines you have mentioned: Thinkpad
T61 and prev. generation Macbook Pro. Both are junk: Lenovo uses one of those
el-cheapo dim and terrible colored screens and MBP also uses a 6-bit LCD
albeit with LED backlight. My MBP also runs OSX, which blows ass compared to
superior Ubuntu/Gnome on a Thinkpad. Please don't moan: I've learned to be
_VERY_ productive in Gnome+Compiz and while I like Macs, I highly recommend
you guys check those out.

Back to the hardware: I keep jumping between the two. I wish I could just run
Ubuntu on a Mac, but I absolutely need Adobe software for work: our designers
as well as business people use Fireworks and Photoshop all the time, so I
gotta be able to read and modify those files, so I'm trying to bear with
OSX/Finder... Ughh.

I am also a photography nut and the situation with laptop LCDs is grim right
now: the total degradation compared to what we've had 2-3 years ago. I don't
know a single laptop manufacturer who offers 16.7 million colors on a laptop
LCD... So if you pay any attention to LCD quality, I don't think you'll be
happy with anything.

But it's either Thinkpads or Macs, as always. There aren't anything else out
there. DELL makes the nice Latitude series, but as always, they couldn't
resist the urge of saving a few dollars and opted for the cheapest touchpad
possible, rendering the machine useless: that ALPS junk just doesn't work.

~~~
kajecounterhack
Have you tried Dell's Precision Mobile Workstation series? They're brilliant.
Plus goldcare support = god. they send technicians to your house to fix
anything. burnt motherboards, shattered screens, etc.

Then again I got this laptop on a research grant...

------
gherlein
I just got a Dell XPS 1530 - bigger than you probably want, but for me it's
outstanding. 1920x1200 LCD, HDMI out, 4GB RAM, Core2 Duo, 320GB haard drive -
for under $1500. A huge seling point for me was that it can be ordered with
Ubuntu so it's fully linux compatable.

~~~
alnayyir
As soon as a windows laptop cracks 1k, it's macbook buying time I'm afraid.

~~~
kajecounterhack
Hey hey hey, you spend $2k on a REALLY nice PC, and install Ubuntu via wubi
for ZERO driver problems (granted you need to install windows beforehand but
that doesn't look troublesome since you play eve online).

Who said macbook was the only way to go over 1k? ever read zed shaw's horror
story? yeah.

~~~
kajecounterhack
Another question, gherlein's suggestion actually sounded really good. What
makes over $1000 automatically a macbook? Is there something about over $1000
PCs that you can't stand? Does the fact that the XPS can come with
preinstalled linux (meaning minimal driver issues as dell probably extensively
tested it to work) not help? 1920 res (meaning good gfx), dvd burner, 4gb ram,
great processor, solid support (I will vouch for dell support believe it or
not as almost a 4 year dell user), and everything else you've asked for....

Or are you just hell-bent on getting a mac and none of this discussion really
matters?

~~~
alnayyir
I want a unix-based OS that isn't going to waste gobs of my time on
hardware/software-package related issues. Mac OS X is the only one that fits
the bill.

Failing that, it makes me nauseous thinking of paying over 1k for hardware
that is as poorly constructed and ugly as most PC laptops tend to be.

Exception: Sony VAIOs. Pretty little thangs, and the predominance of intel
hardware makes me think they're Linux compatible. If I can configure a sharp
looking VAIO with dedicated graphics for under 1k, she's mine.

~~~
kajecounterhack
Hm, you probably could have simplified your original post to:

"I want a mac, but anyone have suggestions for decent PCs under 1k with DVD
burners?"

and then when your karma hit 150, you could start a poll for "how many people
use macs" like you asked --

...instead of a tirade about electrocuting batteries and whatever the heck
else you talked about cause mix a mac survey with computer suggestions and
you're looking for a mess.

And seriously, VAIOs? You might as well go for a Mac. I mean, all that tells
me is that you care about how your lappy looks and not about what it does. Get
a Sager for god's sake. you can configure one for about 1k and it will run
better and last longer than any silly overpriced vaio out there. I mean if
you're looking for 1k computers, you should chuck the word vaio out the
window.

~~~
alnayyir
I configured a rather nice 15.4" from Sager with 1920x1200, HDMI out, and a
9800M, but christ almighty it's 1.8k

The sagers look (reviews back this up) sturdy though.

------
drinian
I just picked up a Sager NP7350 a few weeks ago, in part because Sager
resellers like PC Torque or Xotic PC will sell you a laptop without a Windows
license (and I'm going to use it entirely with Linux).

$1750 including 13" screen with LED backlight, and one of those Intel solid-
state disks. Believe the hype, they are ridiculously fast. The machine is dead
silent when the unfortunately loud fan isn't running.

Ubuntu 8.10 Intrepid supported most hardware out of the box, aside from a
nasty bug in the wifi support that will be solved in a kernel update,
hopefully soon. No support for the fingerprint scanner and possibly the
webcam, I haven't tried it.

Sager is essentially rebranding machines made by a Taiwanese company called
Clevo, and cater mostly to highly technical users. Most tech support won't ask
you to open up the back panel and reset the CMOS battery yourself before
RMAing (true story), and I like that.

<http://forum.notebookreview.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1017> is a big hub of
information.

One thing I would watch out for, Intel VT is not yet enabled in the mainline
BIOS. Clevo just recently enabled it, and Sager has yet to get their rebranded
BIOS in stock yet. However, one BIOS flash will fix this.

~~~
alnayyir
I just started poking around and checking out some of the Sager laptops. Oddly
enough, taking from the reviews, they seem to be the only well built laptops
anymore. I'm poking around the 12 and 13". If I do the SSD, I'll but it
separately, they're way overpriced if you get them from a reseller. That and
I'm holding out for the inevitable price-drop from SanDisk and their SSDs.

~~~
drinian
The reseller price for the Intel X-25M solid state disk seemed to be in line
with what Newegg was charging, and there is a huge difference in write
performance between the Intel MLC disks and everything else on the market
right now. Some of the other MLC disks have such latency problems with random
writes that they can cause your OS to panic.

You are right that there is going to be a big price drop, though. Samsung will
have an Intel competitor with larger capacity on the market soon, and that's
just the beginning.

------
therubberduckie
just wanted to say that Macbooks DO come with a DVD burner (SuperDrive) even
the last gen ones.

~~~
alnayyir
For extra money (last gen ones).

The $949 model I mentioned that is refurb has a DVD-Burner.

~~~
jonknee
The last-gen $999 model for sale at the Apple Store right now contains a DVD
burner. But I couldn't see getting the last-gen. $300 more and you get a big
upgrade. If you keep it a while, you'll never go back and wish you had the
$300.

~~~
alnayyir
Which makes this none the easier. :P

------
tower10
Second hand (or refurbished), last gen 15" Macbook Pro. I use one of these for
development, no complaints.

~~~
zackola
Agreed. Find a mac addict on craigslist who bought one right before the new
ones came out. Spend 50 bucks at crucial to max out the memory to 4GB. Mmmm.
Tasty memory.

~~~
alnayyir
Not a bad idea at all, finding one that is affordable is critical. Also, I
don't even own a mac other than my powermac G4 and I still check (macrumors is
it?) that one site that has a guesstimate on when new models are due to come
out. That way if I buy a new one, I don't get screwed.

------
vco
15.4" Lenovo Thinkpad with the WUXGA+ display really really provides valuable
screen real estate for code

~~~
alnayyir
Well over the mac price point. Nice machines, but not as well built as they
used to be.

~~~
amastilovic
Well over the macbook (not mbpro) price point - and for a reason.

I don't think Macbook could ever compare to Thinkpad T61/T500 for some serious
development. Ever.

Macbook Pro is another story, with another price tag too :)

~~~
alnayyir
FBSD compatibility is a plus and a half.

------
thomasmallen
Well, you want a cheap(er) Mac laptop, 13-14"...sounds like you've already
made up your mind.

------
Eliezer
I _strongly_ suggest looking on Craigslist. I got my last two laptops there
and they were both way above what I could have gotten new at that price point.

~~~
alnayyir
Been poking around on there. Might try to snag a cheap MBP off of there.

------
aposteriori
I've been a long time Linux user and recently got a macbook, partly because it
just works and I don't have to read 1001 web forums trying to decide whether
the specific NVidia chipset is compatible with the latest Xorg driver.

So it's really easy to set up and easy to use, once you get used to the
oddities (command Q...). It's basically a BSD, so you get Bash and Python and
gcc and Vim etc.

However, I'm starting to discover while it is Unix, it's got its problems. On
Ubuntu, everything is just an apt-get away. I can check out bug reports on
launchpad and get unstable fixes, and not have to wait for an update from the
Apple gods. On OSX, you need to use fink or darwinports, which isn't
integrated with the OS (anyone said Apple gcc vs fink gcc?). Apple just likes
doing things its own way, like rewriting config files for you (even though you
edited them manually), having obscure config options
(.MacOSX/environment.plist???).

So as much as I enjoy the interface, I think my next machine will be some sort
of Thinkpad + Ubuntu, for all that brown themed ugliness :)

(oh, and I swear the white macbook scratches and scuffs the second you take it
out of the box, get a black one or a pro.)

~~~
alnayyir
I've been poking around a cheap Thinkpad on Craigslist.

I didn't know the situation was that hairy with the ports on mac os x. From
the way others spoke of macports and fink, it had that same apple 'just works'
going on.

~~~
aposteriori
Fink/ports work enough, but like I said it doesn't integrate with the OS like
on Debian/Ubuntu. I've already mentioned the issue of clashing versions (gcc
from Fink vs from Apple, etc.)

But OS X is nice, if only Ubuntu and Linux in general had the drivers, the
overall polish, better menus (System Preferences on OS X are nice, on gnome
they are a dog's breakfast) and dropped the ugly brown theme...

I think I'll stick to Mac laptops and Linux desktops and enjoy the best of
both worlds :)

------
tortilla
Get the current gen MacBook (MB466LL/A) if you can swing the price. The extra
$200 over your budget is well worth it.

It's $1229.99 (1179.99 after $50 rebate) at Amazon.

~~~
alnayyir
Checking that out right now, didn't know they had them on sale.

------
nanexcool
I'd get a XPS M1330. I dual boot Windows 7 Beta and OS X 10.5.6 with no
problems. Got 4 GB of RAM, and both OS fly. I've installed Ubuntu on it as
well and everything works.

Only things that don't work in OS X are Ethernet, Card Reader, and you have to
manually press the Power button for 5 seconds to power down. Other than that,
it's great.

~~~
niels_olson
Maybe I'm wrong here, but what good is a laptop to a .NET developer if it
doesn't have ethernet? Do you mean the wired card doesn't work, but wi-fi
still works?

~~~
alnayyir
He does, which is highly bothersome to me.

~~~
varaon
[http://www.tuaw.com/2008/01/15/accessories-for-macbook-
air-u...](http://www.tuaw.com/2008/01/15/accessories-for-macbook-air-usb-
ethernet/)

Possibly compatible, who knows.

~~~
alnayyir
Nah, I know for a fact that works.

------
bprater
I love my MBP 17" with 1900x resolution. It allows me to pack my screen full.
It sounds like it isn't in your budget, but as a developer, you might think
about screen real estate.

I had a 15" but couldn't develop on it. Since I got this 17", I've used it
100% of the time, 10+ hours a day.

~~~
alnayyir
Eh, this needs to be a portable machine, and I fully expect to have an extra
monitor available to plug into if I need the real estate for coding. I've
simply never needed that much space while on the go. Can't say I'd mind the
space, but it's not feasible with my budget.

If the Dell Studio 15's were compatible with leopard, I'd go with that because
there's a 1900x1200 resolution upgrade that is VERY reasonably priced.

~~~
bprater
I have a backpack and I take it everywhere. Not sometimes, but every single
day I hit up a coffeeshop. So it's very portable.

If you regularly plug into a bigger screen, a smaller machine might be better.
If the Dell isn't compatible yet, I'm sure it will be in the future. Darn
hackers!

~~~
alnayyir
It's not that simple. There just isn't a lot of people working on the OS X x86
situation. There was one guy making tons of progress single-handedly, but he
_disappeared_.

There just isn't much in the way of progress. The only people out there making
any (somewhat) progress is the macvidia team and they're still fundamentally
reliant upon Apple's willingness to support a given chip for the Mac Pro.

It's not a matter of time if no one cares.

The problem is that people either already own a mac and don't care about
people who can't afford one, or they don't care about using the OS.

I love the hardware, I really really do, but I'm not dumping that kind of
money into a machine. It's not feasible on my income (meager).

------
matthall28
Definitely go with a MacBook. Seems perfect for you

~~~
alnayyir
Thanks for the suggestion, it's just financially painful compared to a
natively compatible hackbook or other idea.

~~~
streblo
If you're a student (it doesn't sounds like you are, but...) you can get the
student discount, which can be around ~$200 for most laptops that apple sells.
Maybe you know a student who can actually make the purchase for you? Just a
thought.

~~~
alnayyir
The student thing is a good idea, and no I'm not a student. I've already made
a post looking for ideas on how to get back into school. :P

------
anthony_barker
Thinkpad T42p 14" with ubuntu 8.10 + 24" LCD with USB hub + keyboard +
wireless logitech mouse, + 2 GB RAM

Laptops are like cars - they depreciate the most in the first year or two. Go
for a corporate laptop just off the refresh cycle.

\- IBM build quality \- fast enough as a decent backup to a desktop \- runs
windows in vmware for testing, .net apps \- Ubuntu just works \- good size,
weight \- Costs approximately laptop: $350 + LCD $300

Alternately I bought my daughter an MSI Wind with Suse (switched to Ubuntu)
and I find myself using it quite frequently. Very light, great build quality +
great screen.(Also Mac Compatibility now with the Realtek 8187SE drivers).

~~~
alnayyir
Seriously considering a Thinkpad so that I can run BSD/Linux without hassle.

------
CyberED
I'm using two HP/Compaq Presarios, both with Ubuntu v8.10 and Mac4Lin. I was
going to buy a Mac, but considering the price differential the Compaq's are a
better deal. Ubuntu upgrades also come at the right price.

~~~
alnayyir
:\

I don't want Mac OS X because of the appearance. I want it because:

My 3d acceleration will always work. My sound will always work. My resolution
will display properly. Shit won't break FREQUENTLY when I upgrade software.
Shit won't break FREQUENTLY when I upgrade "os" versions. There's non-trash
software available for Mac OS X. (Textmate, darkroom, etc) Media will playback
without complaint, hassle, or copyright-related zealotry. If I plug in a
second monitor, it will _just work_. No config file editing, no bullshit. Just
work.

~~~
kajecounterhack
_My 3d acceleration will always work. My sound will always work. My resolution
will display properly. Shit won't break FREQUENTLY when I upgrade software.
Shit won't break FREQUENTLY when I upgrade "os" versions. There's non-trash
software available for Mac OS X. (Textmate, darkroom, etc) Media will playback
without complaint, hassle, or copyright-related zealotry. If I plug in a
second monitor, it will just work. No config file editing, no bullshit. Just
work._

This may sound slightly crazy.... but you might want to try a PC with windows.

You're on a budget, play EVE, do some .net, and don't care about UI. You
_could_ dual boot some sort of linux (hell if you hate upgrades so much, then
just install slackware and stop updating your kernel. if it aint broke don't
break it) for whatever *nix shit you need to do, and the rest...all work. You
want instant compatibility with about EVERYTHING. Okay man, Windoze seems to
suit you well.

;) and don't forget AVG antivirus. It's a dangerous world out there!

~~~
alnayyir
Well, that's my current situation, I'm using Windows right now. (Installing
Windows 7 as we speak)

However, I happen to rather like GNU tools and the unix-style shell
environment (bash).

Windows doesn't offer either, and it isn't conducive to contributing my time
to an open source project either.

~~~
kajecounterhack
Question: So if you get a mac, are you going to install windows on it also?

~~~
alnayyir
For .NET work, yes. I have to. Might do VMWare Fusion but I'd be worried about
IIS or something going pissy on me about the networking when running under a
virtual machine.

------
streblo
To echo what a lot of people are saying: It sounds like you really want a mac,
so I'd say go ahead and swallow the cost and just get it.

Personal testimonial: I own a G4 Powerbook that I bought about 5 years ago,
and a MacBook Pro that I acquired about three years ago. Both work really
well, and their longevity has been more than worth the price tag. My Powerbook
still runs Halo flawlessly on medium settings. Any time I've had a problem
with either, I've gone to an apple store and they've fixed any and all
problems I've had.

~~~
alnayyir
I have an ancient PowerMac G4 (500 MHz) that still works to this day. Too bad
I can't get XCode to install properly. :(

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riobard
Every passionate developer deserves an aluminum MacBook + an extremely big
external screen with resolution at least 1920x1280.

No, don't go for the plastic refurbs, even it saves you some bucks. In the
long run you'll be much much happier.

Dell 600m ... I used to live in the same dorm with a guy owning such a machine
back in college. Things impressed me include:

\- key caps kept falling out while typing

\- hot enough to burn your hands in summer (turned out to be very useful in
winter, though)

\- extremely noisy fan

\- battery recalled due to possibility to explode (Sony's fault, as I
remember)

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pj
I dind't read all ur long post, but the only rational choice is a mac book pro
15" do bootcamp if you want windows or need to flip over to test something.
all doors are open with the macbook, why even consider anything else? you
wouldnt run mac os on a HP.

look, mac is about the hardware. it's superior hardware. run whatever OS you
want on top of it, the hardware is the best in the industry, there just isn't
any comparison.

~~~
alnayyir
From the comments, it seems like that is what I'm gonna do, but I'll have to
get a used one. I _cannot_ afford a new one.

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alex_c
This depends on how urgent it is, but if you have some time and really want to
save some cash, keep checking the refurbished Apple store a couple times a day
for a week or two. The listings change regularly, but the good deals can be
gone within hours.

<http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac>

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Bplus
you obviously want a mac, so just get a mac. you aren't going to regret it.

~~~
old-gregg
Sure about that? I bought two (Macbook + MBP) and I do regret. Wasted $3.5K.
LCDs on regular Macbooks are as cheap and healthy as $0.99 cheeseburgers and
OSX/Finder can't hold a handle to Ghone/Compiz when to comes to window/file
management. Font rendering isn't in the same league as what Linux/Freetype is
capable of, especially in languages other than English. And lots of
interesting software requires googling to install: most are 1st class citizens
on Linux and 2nd - everywhere else.

Both of my Macs developed some hardware issues in their first year, and both
issues are quite widespread among other Mac users according to Apple forums.

Just pointing out that the world is bigger than it seems.

~~~
sethbc
While I certainly haven't had the same experience when it comes to the
hardware or installation issues, I couldn't agree more with the first part of
your post. I moved over to the mac for a long time, but I find myself more at
ease in Linux.

In fact, I never understood why the RoR guys insist on macs for development -
I've found development much easier on linux. On the other hand, I'm also not
trading in my mac any time soon - it's by far the best music recording
platform out there.

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ihartley
I highly recommend the last gen macbooks. I have a second to last gen one and
it's a great computer besides the fact that it can only address 3gb of ram.
I've recently upgraded to the new unibody macbook which is an amazing machine,
but a little beyond your price point of $1000

~~~
alnayyir
Most are recommending that I either get a lastgen mac or the current-gen. The
current-gen is _quite_ an upgrade, and it seems that I might just sell off
some stuff to make up the difference and get a current-gen. There's just too
much great software on OS X for me to pass up.

~~~
whatusername
Depending on timelines - don't forget that snow-leopard is coming out soon...
Not sure if it's worth the extra couple of months waiting?

~~~
alnayyir
I can wait. If I do, I'll def. have the money for a macbook/macbook pro
outright.

~~~
kajecounterhack
Wow...then just WAIT if you can, buy what you want, and don't start huge
threads on news.yc that essentially become macvangelist madness.

~~~
alnayyir
Well, the alternate option is buy a Sager now, now that you've directed me to
them. Which was the point of this. I knew there had to be a decent no-name'ish
brand out there.

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misterbwong
Seems like you really want a macbook so you should get it. I've found that
academic stores usually have very good prices. My alum is currently clearing
out the old MBP for ~1200.

------
timcederman
I am impressed that you keep reviving yourself from electrocution.

Anyway, I love my XPS m1330, and I picked up the 3GB RAM/250GB HDD/dedicated
graphics version for $500 just over a year ago. If you get it on sale, it's
excellent value.

~~~
alnayyir
I just explained that my Dell regularly shocks me because of the shoddy
construction and you recommend another one? :(

Also: yes the M1330 is okay, and if you get it refurb/on-sale the dedicated
graphics model is respectable, but bleurgh. Dell's build-quality makes me sick
to my stomach.

~~~
old-gregg
_... my Dell regularly shocks me ..._

Shut the fuck up. I bet you're lying your ass off. Computers are designed not
to shock people. This is why I'm starting to steer towards enterprise as
opposed to consumer market: making products for regular folks just isn't worth
it because of little lying bitches like you.

~~~
kajecounterhack
Whoa there calm down he's probably just over-exaggerating some small problem.
We get the point.

~~~
alnayyir
It's a small problem in the grand scheme of things, but the battery contacts
_are_ exposed and they _do_ arc into me, and it _is_ painful.

Am I suing? hahahah, fuck no. That shit is funny as hell more than anything, I
don't like dozing off to a movie in bed with the laptop...shifting a leg, then
getting woke the fuck up.

