
Hard Numbers on Stackoverflow Careers - fogus
http://www.cforcoding.com/2009/12/hard-numbers-on-stackoverflow-careers.html
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spolsky
First: you're missing all the users with less than 1000 reputation that have
paid for CVs. There are actually about 1500 paid CVs in the system.

Is there critical mass? I would say, in major tech/development areas, or for
national-footprint employers who relocated candidates, absolutely yes. A
company like Google, Microsoft, Pixar will certainly find plenty of good
candidates on Stack Overflow.

In smaller cities without big tech industries, and for people who don't want
to relocate, mostly the answer is "not yet" although I expect to get there.
The little startup in Tulsa that needs an embedded systems programmer but
doesn't want to relocate someone... won't find them. The guy in Oklahoma City
who won't move elsewhere isn't finding good tech jobs because there aren't any
in Oklahoma City, not because we don't have critical mass.

As for the revenue, earning money was never the point of charging job seekers.
We charge job seekers a minimal amount because it eliminates a huge number of
unserious, unqualified, and other candidates who really don't stand a chance.
If it's free, job seekers have an incentive to post their resume everywhere
"just in case" which employers hate, because they have to filter through lots
and lot of junk. We're actively looking for better ways to do this kind of
pre-filtering. I'd like to lower the cost as much as possible without opening
the floodgates, and I imagine we'll find creative ways to let high-rep
stackoverflow users get a CV without paying very much. Nothing is set in
stone.

~~~
freetard
> earning money was never the point of charging job seekers

Really? Why don't you give all the money to charity then Joel?

~~~
spolsky
That's not a bad idea, actually, I'll talk to Jeff about that.

~~~
freetard
Actually, if you really make that little money out of it, the publicity stunt
of giving it all to charity might be more profitable in the long term than
keeping it to yourself.

~~~
scotch_drinker
Translated: Hey Joel, I'll always suspect your motives regardless of what you
do even if it's a binary choice so you can't win. What does whether or not
Joel is doing this for the money have anything to do with whether or not
StackOverflow Careers is a good or bad thing?

~~~
thrdOriginal
Exactly, some nice false dichotomies going on here. Also: what's the sin in
making money while also helping programmers get better jobs, regardless of
whether or not that money is the primary goal or a side effect?

~~~
joe_the_user
Have you read the article _describing_ the problems implicit in SO careers?
Also, look at <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=997068> the high post on
this thread.

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heyitsnick
I know this is going way off topic, but I've been meaning to ask this
somewhere. My knowledge is a little rusty (~8 years back I worked for a
software development company that wrote recruitment software), but it was my
understanding that, at least under UK law, you were not legally allowed to
charge candidates to upload their CV or to search for jobs. Is stackoverflow
careers open in the UK? Does this law not exist in the US or other countries?

edit: Sorry, I see <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=997197> asking the
same question.

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tokenadult
The one person who definitely should be hired from Stackoverflow Careers is
the one who teaches Jeff how to make back-ups and check that back-ups have
been made properly.

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kw_
Looking at Stackoverflow Careers from a hiring perspective, I don't really
understand the point.

If suddenly 20% of my candidates have a CV that includes some "reputation"
score, and other information from a programming website, what am I to do with
that?

Does it mean they spend time on stackoverflow instead of working? Does it mean
they're a genius who knows all? Does it mean they simply ask and answer a lot
of simple questions, but are useless on complex matters? Do I really want to
try to figure that out?

In the end, I want to do apples to apples comparisons, and I'm not sure how SO
Careers fits in there.

Are there suggested Best Practices for how to integrate SO Careers into a
candidate search? Perhaps somebody can enlighten me if I'm missing something,
but I don't get it.

~~~
dagw
If you have a candidate with a good CV and he's given you his stackoverflow
account name, then it should take you about 5 minutes to get a good idea of
how much time he spends on the site, what kind of questions he asks/answers
and how well those questions are asked and answered. What you want to do with
information is course totally up to you, but I fail to see why having that
information is in any way a bad thing.

I agree that a raw number means very little, but the info gleaned from looking
up their stackoverflow account can tell you quite a bit.

~~~
kw_
Stackoverflow Careers is based on the premise that it's worth $5,000/yr to me,
plus $99/yr/candidate for the candidate, to share that information.

Do you really see that much value, versus simply asking all candidates 'Are
there any publicly accessible technical forums or mailing lists that you
participate on a regular basis? If so, are you willing to share your
username?'

I prefer the latter, because it's a question I can ask _all_ candidates, and
it doesn't cost me $5,000 to ask. Nor does it cost you $99 to answer.

~~~
dagw
I guess it's a perspective thing. To me it seems more like you're paying $5000
to get access to CVs by programmers who are dedicated enough to the whole job
hunting process and secure enough in their ability that they're willing to pay
$100 just to list their CVs. The stack overflow score seems fairly incidental
to the whole process.

~~~
kw_
Again, I'm simply not buying the argument.

The reality is that I'd never _just_ use StackOverflow to find candidates, so
these are people who have other ways to find out about the positions, and
apply.

I'd rather see the candidate spend the money on an ACM membership (or similar
professional development) than spend it simply trying to reach me.

That said, I think I now have a pretty good idea of the value proposition as
it might exist for other employers, but it seems clear that the equation
doesn't balance for me. Thanks for clarifying your argument, I appreciate it.

~~~
barrkel
I bought ACM membership. They never sent me the monthly CACM on time (8 months
before receiving 6 issues in a box(!!!) in the mail, then 1 more 3 months
later, still missing 5), _and_ they sold my address and now I receive junk
mail advertising academic books.

Joining ACM: just a plain bad idea. Only value is older papers not available
ungated on citeseer or elsewhere.

