

Starting Up, One Year Later: The Downward Spiral - Sujan
http://blog.dislocatedday.com/starting-up-one-year-later-the-downward-spira

======
edawerd
'All the stuff "normal" folks do to unwind and interact with the world outside
of their jobs -- go to the gym, read a book, go out to dinner, watch TV, play
a game, etc. -- I either won't allow myself to do or feel guilty over doing.'

This encapsulates exactly how I feel most of the time. It's really hard for me
to get past the guilt of not working on the startup. Even things like eating
breakfast in the morning, I don't want to do because I feel like I'm wasting
time, so I end up starving myself until lunch.

It's weird because it one of those things that you KNOW you shouldn't do, yet
you somehow find yourself in that downward spiral.

~~~
tdavis
Damn, one of my favorites and I forgot about it. Eating, period, makes me feel
guilty. Maybe because it costs time and money and sometimes I'll watch _The
Daily Show_ or something while I do it?

This is one of those I considered too ridiculous to even rationalize; it's in
the "because why not" pile.

~~~
Sujan
I realized I was feeling guilty for eating the same way you two did. I also
watched TV along the way, so I was feeling even more guilty because often I
stayed far longer than needed. There's so much useless stuff on TV you can
watch for hours anyway.

First try: Cut the TV, read rss feeds or email while eating. Baaaad idea,
obviously. Not only was I still feeling guilty because 'without eating you
would read much faster' but I also degraded eating to something even less
valuable. There was zero relaxation, I didn't even really _taste_ what I was
eating.

Second try: I dismissed TV, rss feeds and everything else while eating. Eating
now is my 30-to-60-minute-break of everything 2 to 3 times a day. I just
concentrate on preparing and eating the food. I even started to eat in my
kitchen again and not on my couch or in front of the computer. Makes a hell of
a difference.

I'm so much more relaxed after these breaks. Often I will stay a little longer
and read a magazine (brandeins, a german business magazin) or even a book.

PS: Next step is to go out for eating every other day to get some sandwiches,
pizza or something. It's a bit more expensive but really helped me to really
get away from everything in my head.

PPS: Of course I sometimes still sit over my keyboard with a pizza and work
while eating, but well, I never said I was perfect ;)

------
raffi
I've felt like you have many times. Whenever I do, I go read this blog post
from Timothy Ferris:

<http://tinyurl.com/4l2gpl>

It contains this gem of a quote from Marc Andreessen:

“First and foremost, a start-up puts you on an emotional rollercoaster unlike
anything you have ever experienced. You flip rapidly from day-to-day – one
where you are euphorically convinced you are going to own the world, to a day
in which doom seems only weeks away and you feel completely ruined, and back
again. Over and over and over. And I’m talking about what happens to stable
entrepreneurs. There is so much uncertainty and so much risk around
practically everything you are doing. The level of stress that you’re under
generally will magnify things incredible highs and unbelievable lows at
whiplash speed and huge magnitude. Sound like fun?”

------
pclark
Startups are marathons not sprints.

If you work 24/7 you will burn out and you'll write blog posts like yours.

Get a girlfriend, take up a sport, join a [non computer] club.

Do something that attaches _you_ to reality. Nothing wrong with working lots,
but do something else also.

~~~
andrewljohnson
This is exactly right. If you can't imagine doing what you are doing everyday
for the next 5-20 years, it's time for a change.

------
ryuio
This is a great writeup. I have also come to disagree with the specific PG
essay mentioned in the post.

Entrepreneurship needs to be more sustainable than what is made out in the
current literature. It shouldn't really be a 2 year binge in the hope of a
cashout. The biggest companies take a lot more than that and if you really
love doing it there is no reason you should be looking for an exit. A long
term commitment also requires entrepreneurship to suit your other life
requirements.

A startup isn't really worth its exit.

~~~
davi
_The biggest companies take a lot more than that_

Seems like in this case, the founders can "exit" into the new, big company
that grew out of the seed they germinated and nurtured during their two years
of insane coding and sacrifice. The seed grows roots, and the roots find
purchase, and the leaves unfurl, and the thing grows like kudzu, and the
founders (if they don't just want to retire) get to manage and shape the
growth, and hire lots of people to help them, so they can stop sacrificing
their existences so completely, and resume enjoying life.

 _A startup isn't really worth its exit._

Do you know this from experience?

I guess what I'm saying is that the steady state of "sustainable" work is
unlikely to produce great startups; and the steady state of complete self
sacrifice is probably a waste of one's consciousness. The real, productive,
and fun dynamic may be in pursuing a set of punctuated equilibria -- brief
epochs of spastic productivity, which punctuate longer spans of "sustainable"
exploration of the results of the last round of spastic effort.

Then, when you get bored of exploring the ramifications of the last round of
effort, get spastic again! Shake it up, and see what the new world you've made
for yourself means.

------
alex_c
The most useful tool I've only started to learn is to focus on PRODUCTIVE
hours of work per day, rather than total hours spent working. I assume
everyone's different, but for me six hours of truly productive coding in one
day counts as a big success (yes, I CAN get more in, but for how many days in
a row?)

Realizing and accepting when you're no longer productive and switching tracks
is one of the most useful skills.

Startup founders have a lot of things working against them - the flexibility
to set your own work schedule can be one of the most powerful tools. If this
involves taking a mid-day break to run around outside for an hour, or going
out on a weeknight and sleeping in the next morning, or working throughout a
weekend because it makes sense, then go for it. With the right balance of
discipline, it'll keep you happier, it'll keep you sane, and it'll keep you
more productive - per hour spent working - than anyone in a cubicle.

------
csomar
I'm facing this same problem "I can't even sit in bed writing this without
thinking, "I should really be working,""

It makes me always pressed and in hurry to complete things, and I can't
control myself about this!

How can I change? it's really destroying my productivity

~~~
tdavis
Rather ironic that being in a hurry to complete things ruins productivity,
don't you think? Although it seems entirely fitting, given what used to be my
normal outlook on life. I remember when I was never in a particular hurry, and
the world somehow managed to not end. Which is something now outside my
comprehension.

------
raheemm
What a great essay! It brings to light the day to day emotional struggles of
focusing 110% on something, especially on a solitary level. Check out this
video of Couchdb founder talking about a similar struggle

<http://www.infoq.com/presentations/katz-couchdb-and-me>

------
Sujan
> And somebody will probably submit it to Hacker News and get karma, so it
> isn't all bad.

done.

~~~
tdavis
You sorta picked a crappy time. Mostly only people wound as tightly as me are
awake and reading Hacker News right now. I hope you get more than 5, otherwise
I will have to write something with pictures of cats to make up the "good
cheer" differential.

~~~
anuraggoel
> Mostly only people wound as tightly as me

Isn't that demographic also your target audience for this post?

~~~
tdavis
Seems I wrote quite the touché-inducing comment. First timezone guy, now you!

------
vaksel
Like everything else in life you need balance. Putting in hundreds of hours is
really not that more productive than putting in 50-60. You may think you are
doing yourself a favor by working such long hours, but in reality you aren't.

At a certain point any additional "work" you do is non-productive, when you
are tired, your mind will start to wander, and you'll start making mistakes.
And then you'll spend all that time you "saved" fixing them.

------
gfodor
You know how they say if you fall off the horse, you should get back on again?
Running a startup can be like falling off the horse, every day, usually onto
your face.

------
Confusion
Sounds like he is describing my university years. I think the problem is
simple: the most important thing in your life is something that can consume an
unlimited amount of time. There's always more to do, to learn, to explore, so
you never feel you've done _enough_. I think that is also the key to solving
the problem: you have to set precise, reasonable, goals and disengage yourself
from that 'most important thing' when you've reached the goals you set for the
day, week, month. Otherwise, the maelstrom will take all your time.

~~~
tdavis
I tried exactly what you're saying, actually; I grabbed a task planner, put
tasks for "Today" in it before I went to bed, then did them when I woke up.
And I took a break when I was done. And spent the whole time telling myself,
"you have earned this break." Which turns out to not be so very relaxing,
actually.

The strategy worked well enough that I feel it _could_ work properly, if only
I could return to equilibrium long enough to enact it. In its current form, it
feels like I'm lying to myself because the other voice telling me I'm not
doing enough is louder.

And I used to be so... _sane sounding_.

