
Minnesota’s frozen turbines raise new doubts about wind power - transburgh
http://green.venturebeat.com/2010/02/08/minnesotas-frozen-turbines-raise-new-doubts-about-wind-power/
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hristov
Wow, this is a really misleading article. It takes a minor problem caused by a
technical mistake, and turns it into something that threatens the viability of
wind power as we know it.

There are known hydraulic fluids that operate fine in Minnesota temperatures.
There are wind turbines that currently operate without problems in places
colder than Minn.

The only problem is that these particular turbines were designed for the
California climate and then someone bought them used and moved them to
Minnesota without doing a proper feasibility study.

This is at most a story about local corporate and/or government incompetence.
It has nothing to do with the future of wind power.

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hyperbovine
Totally agree. Funny that, in order to diagnose this problem, they probably
drove out to the turbines in a vehicle with hydraulic brakes. Judging from the
tone of this article, that accomplishment constitutes a major scientific
discovery.

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jsz0
It's so frustrating that anytime we talk about _any_ new idea the same old
battles have to be rehashed with a lack of perspective on the current status
quo having its own set of problems. I'm pretty sure we can figure out how to
make a turbine that works and harness solar & wind power efficiently and
reliability. I have doubts we can convince OPEC nations to keep selling us
cheap oil as their production peaks and declines in the near future. I have
doubts that the existing energy cartels will ever invest serious time and
resources into making carbon energy cleaner. I have serious long term doubts
that we can continue to extract carbon energy sources from the Earth in the
required quantities to provide energy for 6 billion+ people. I'm almost sure
we can't do it in an environmentally friendly way. Doubts? Yeah lots.

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devin
This is a tiny technical issue and isn't worth reading about. Long story short
-- they need to paint the turbine black or use a tiny bit of energy to heat
the fluid.

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electromagnetic
Wouldn't switching the hydraulic fluid be sufficient? It's not like there's
one single hydraulic fluid in existence, there's thousands of natural and
artificial fluids that can be used in hydraulics.

The hydraulic fluid was obviously chosen for California weather not Minnesota,
so the hydraulic fluid could suitably be changed for operating in lower
temperature ranges.

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chaosmachine
We have lots of wind turbines up here in Canada, and they spin year round. I
don't think it's a fatal problem with turbines in general, just with the used
ones they tried to transplant from California.

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electromagnetic
Agreed, P.E.I. has countless wind turbines and I've never heard a problem.
They're on an island unprotected from the brunt force of the Atlantic all year
round, if this was a common problem then P.E.I. wouldn't be covered with
turbines.

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Dbug
The writer certainly didn't show any effort to demonstrate non-viability of
fixes, and he also didn't provide any information on performance of newer
turbines or those from other vendors.

This was a case of 20 year old units being purchased used and moved to a much
harsher environment. I would not be surprised if the people involved didn't
even check to see what operating temperature range was specified by the
manufacturer.

I don't think anyone has claimed that wind power is practical everywhere.
Sites must be studied in adequate detail, and in some cases a test
installation is appropriate ahead of wide-scale deployment.

There seem to be far too many writers and anal-ists giving opinions where
they're not qualified to.

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CapitalistCartr
"As new sources of renewable energy are developed like thin film and solar
thermal, for example more and more doubts about wind are coming to the fore."

So technology doesn't stand still. Passive voice is a sure-fire red flag. Who
is raising these alleged doubts. Where are the numbers comparing the other
technologies to Wind. Why are a few 20-year old turbines that some one forgot
to change the hydraulic fluid relevant to the current tech level in Wind
power?

As Heinlein said, "What are the facts, and to how many decimal places?"

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jrockway
Yeah, one turbine is mis-designed, so wind power is a failure. Some other
things that had bugs in their first revision: <list of everything you use on a
daily basis>.

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jbooth
Yeah, but one dude who was doing climate change research fudged his numbers!
That means this wind turbine was set up to fail from the beginning and it's
very existence is part of a conspiracy to dupe people into spending .00001% of
the federal budget on alternative energy!

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jrockway
Exactly. If wind power catches on, the terrorists will have won... or
something...

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Hoff
tl;dr: it gets cold in Minnesota in the winter, and you need different gear
oil in your equipment.

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teeja
At mines in the upper midwest, the diesel fuel used in (expensive, famous-
name) heavy equipment wouldn't flow when its temperature got far below zero.
At that time, they had to let the engines idle all night because they had no
other (engineered) way to keep the fuel warm.

Yet there are obvious solutions to problems like these. So it's not a
"windmill fail" like this newbie journalist is painting it. That they often
put out less than their "peak" power is a self-evident part of windpower, and
matters nothing so long as the plant is cost-effective. Unlike nuclear.

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oconnore
[http://www.greenharbor.org/2010/01/wind-turbines-
installed-a...](http://www.greenharbor.org/2010/01/wind-turbines-installed-
and-operating-in-antarctica/)

Uh, something doesn't seem right here...

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johnl
Every growth industry has it's ups and downs. You find out what works and what
doesn't, fix what doesn't, and keep on going. Shouldn't be a big deal.

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cmelbye
Haha, I live right near this wind turbine. It has literally not spun once the
entire time it has been installed. I'd love to know how much it cost the
taxpayers of the city that it's in.

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jrockway
Probably no more than any other research project.

"Out of sight, out of mind" at its best, but the opposite.

