
Amazon Prime Wardrobe lets you try on and return clothes free - janober
https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/20/amazon-prime-wardrobe
======
berberous
Other than the discount for keeping multiple items, I'm not sure what's so
special about this. You can order a box of clothes from most major retailers,
with free shipping and free returns, and with usually a 30+ day return policy.
Here, you only have 7 days to return.

~~~
xxSparkleSxx
As someone that buys 80% of my clothes online, this has rarely been the case
for me. I'm lucky if I can get free shipping to my home and have only
experienced free return shipping, uhhhh, well not sure if I ever have.

Where do you buy your clothes? I use Gilt, Mr. Porter, and brand specific
pages. My last online purchase was from sevenforallMankind where I bought a
pricey pair of jeans and if I needed to return them it would have been $5 for
shipping.

~~~
kunaalarya
Gilt is a poor example because it's a nearly out of business discount shop.
but Mr porter and most online stores will offer free shipping and returns. The
exception are a lot of brand specific pages - 7formankind i always found to be
really bad. But try all the hundreds of boutique web stores - i've never seen
them charge for return shipping.

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notfried
I think what's a game-changer here is if they only charge your credit card
after the 7 days. It's not very clear, but they do say that you only pay for
what you keep. And this could be huge.

15 items could easily be $1,000, and asking someone to pay a $1,000 just to
try, even if they know they can return and get a refund, is a huge barrier. If
Amazon would indeed charge you only after the 7-days, they could convert a lot
of store buyers their ways.

~~~
colinbartlett
Indeed this is a very common practice in the high end fashion business where
people use personal stylists to help them pick clothes. The stylist grabs a
bunch of products for the client, sends them "on memo" or "on consignment" and
they pay for only what they don't return. Even when you're dealing with
clients for whom floating a few thousand dollars is no big deal, the
psychological impact of not actually hitting their card until the return is
compelling enough to retailers that they are willing to give up the inventory
for that 5 to 10 day period.

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cseelus
For German customers this is nothing special.

As a customer, you can order from any Retailer and return within 14 days
without giving any reason, as we have a special "Fernabsatzgesetz" (Distance
Selling Act).

Nearly every Retailer offers free returns and above 40 Euro purchase value,
returns even have to be free of charge.

Many Retailers offer more than 14 days, 30 days is nothing special and some
like Zalando (a Zappos clone) even offer 100 days of free returns.

~~~
germanier
> above 40 Euro purchase value, returns even have to be free of charge

This was removed from the law in June 2014. Retailers can now say that
customers need to pay a carrier for the shipment back regardless of value.
Some do, most don't. They can however never charge "restocking fees" or
whatnot. The same day the EU Consumer Rights Directive was put in force so all
EU customers now have this protection.

(The Fernabsatzgesetz was removed in 2002 by the way. This topic is now
regulated in the usual BGB.)

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wonder_bread
Not a good day to be Stitch Fix...

Classic Amazon/Google move, take away the easy appeal and marginalize the
growing competitor, forcing them to innovate if they're going to find a role.

~~~
Eridrus
I don't think this will have much of an impact on Stitch Fix.

Stitch Fix's proposition isn't free returns - plenty of places sell clothes
online with free returns - Stitch Fix's appeal is that they will do the work
of picking out potential items for you so that you don't have to comb through
hundreds of items to find what you want.

It mostly just seems like Amazon is bringing free returns to the low end of
the market.

~~~
jawns
Bear in mind that Amazon already has all the pieces in place to offer ML-
driven recommendations, and I would be surprised if it didn't offer that
option once this gets out of beta.

It's possible ML-driven recommendations may surpass the recommendations of
StitchFix's "personal stylists" in terms of accuracy. And unless "personal
stylists" is just a market-facing name for "algorithms," ML-driven
recommendations by Amazon would certainly surpass StitchFix in terms of
efficiency and operating costs.

~~~
claytonjy
You might be surprised how much data science drives StitchFix; I sure was when
this came out recently: [http://algorithms-
tour.stitchfix.com/](http://algorithms-tour.stitchfix.com/)

~~~
wonder_bread
Wow. It doesn't tell you fully how they actually do it, but I'm still a little
surprised they put that out there

------
losteverything
So now knock off clothing will be the new electronics on Amazon. Fake
clothing, fake brands.. who really knows.

In our town there is a boutique in a strip mall. They cut off the tags from
other store's products and put their on their merchandise. A high schooler kid
was heard telling her friends her job is to do this.. Some were clearance from
Walmart; others Kohls.

Amazon should really figure out how to not allow knock offs.

~~~
schitzapplebits
> So now knock off clothing will be the new electronics on Amazon. Fake
> clothing, fake brands.. who really knows.

It already is, unfortunately, at least that's been my personal experience.

------
rootsudo
This is one of the things I miss most of the USA, ability to return anything,
especially clothes.

In most of Asia, and maybe around the world. There's no return policy. It
sucks.

~~~
yulaow
In EU you have 14 days to return anything bought online without giving any
reason, and seller must refund you as soon as it gets the items back. Some
give more weeks, but 14 days is the legal minimum.

~~~
ProblemFactory
The EU 14-day online returns is an extension of the older regulation against
high-pressure sales tactics, like telephone sales, door-to-door sales, and
booths on the street.

It allows you to change your mind if you made an impulse purchase, but not
really to "test" a product. The returned item must be unused and in new
condition, with any seals unbroken - generally if you open the box or rip any
plastic bags the online retailer doesn't _have_ to accept a return any more.

~~~
yulaow
The seals unbroken is valid only for a very restricted type of items (sealed
audio, video or computer software, such as DVDs, which you have unsealed upon
receipt [1]).

Also, in general, there is no "unused" or "box sealed" condition. Just you
have to return the item undamaged and "as it was".

You are required to take good care of the goods and you may be liable for the
reduced value of goods caused by handling them beyond what’s necessary to be
sure they work and are what you ordered. [2]

[1]
[http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guar...](http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-
returns/index_en.htm) [2] [https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/shopping/buying-
online/your-ri...](https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/shopping/buying-online/your-
rights-online/#Changeofmind)

------
dragonwriter
So, like every online clothing and shoe retailer has for years,since not long
after it was Zappos initial distinguishing feature which everyone copied since
it was so obviously highly preferred by consumers.

By now, that's about as notable as delivering goods to your door in cardboard
boxes.

~~~
kin
But the game changer is the 10-20% off your purchase. That's a pretty big
deal. Not only that, but no upfront costs.

Amazon already had free shipping and returns before for Prime users. This
however is a completely different psychology to online shopping.

~~~
dragonwriter
> But the game changer is the 10-20% off your purchase.

[...]

> This however is a completely different psychology to online shopping.

“Buy more and get a discount which increases, within some range, based on
quantiry” is not new in any area of retail, including online shopping.

~~~
kin
> “Buy more and get a discount which increases, within some range, based on
> quantiry”

What amazon is doing is not the same as this quote. This isn't buying in bulk.
This is more kin to B&M retail shopping where you don't have to pay any
upfront costs to try on an article of clothing and assess fit. Only now, it's
in the comfort of your own home.

The discount would be icing on the cake, but in the realm of fashion, 10-20%
off is game changer.

~~~
dragonwriter
> The discount would be icing on the cake, but in the realm of fashion, 10-20%
> off is game changer.

Quantity-based discounts of 10-20% at volumes of 3-5 items are _low_ in
clothing retail; 25% at a quantity of two isn't uncommon (consistency and
simplicity across the board of the Amazon discount structure might be somewhat
novel, but the _level_ of discount is not.)

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gnicholas
> _Pick well and you get a bonus discount. But pick poorly and the most it
> costs you is a trip to UPS_

In the video, they say/show that it includes a printed prepaid label and home-
pickup. So you don't even have to go to UPS.

~~~
gnicholas
The article has been updated in light of this comment.

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MikeKusold
Why doesn't Amazon leverage Zappos (an Amazon subsidary)? Their service and
return policy (1 year) are amazing.

It seems odd to compete with Zappos when it already has a loyal user base.

~~~
thinkling
I think it's safe to assume that Amazon has a reason to not "leverage" Zappos,
e.g. maybe Zappos margins are much lower or there's substantial upside to
having people shop on the main Amazon site and throw some electronics in their
cart while they're at it.

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DanBC
I think they have to do this, in the UK, under UK trading laws.

It's a bit of a problem because, "this is why we can't have nice things", some
people are arseholes.

[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37711091](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37711091)

> "I return half of what I buy," says 30-year-old Alex Demetri, who spends
> £500 to £700 on clothes each month.

> She also admits to wearing some of her clothes first before returning them.

> It is customers like Ms Demetri who are causing problems for shops, which
> are "struggling to cope" with the number of items returned, new research
> suggests.

------
yalogin
I don't understand why this is a differentiator in clothes shopping online.
The thing is you can return stuff without going to the store. But the most
time is spent in browsing through items and trying them out. Returning items
at a store does not take time at all. He cannot imagine that alone being a
selling point for either Amazon prime or for trunkclub.

------
6stringmerc
Psychologically it strikes me as quite a similar approach to micro-transaction
mobile gaming. I mean, the incentive to "save" by purchasing more really
bothers me on a fundamental level. As in, my imagination is running wild with
what percentage of the eventual Customer Base are, for lack of a better term,
suffering from a Compulsion or Addiction to Buying Things? I'm sure an
algorithm could spot it, but why bother? They're good for business, right?

Between housewares, groceries, and now clothes, is there any more clear
philosophy that Amazon wants us to never leave the house and socialize with
one another? I mean, it's not that far from potential reality. Between mobile
phone self-isolation and never having to actually go to stores where people
work to make a living, this is kind of an unnerving future. Well, for those of
us who want to preserve some shreds of humanity under the shadow of the
Amazonmandyias Bezos is building.

~~~
mtberatwork
> Between housewares, groceries, and now clothes, is there any more clear
> philosophy that Amazon wants us to never leave the house and socialize with
> one another?

Well, I suppose you might have a point if your only source of interaction with
other people is at a mall. However, the less time I spend in a shopping mall
or grocery store, the more time I have to get outside, take a bike ride, hike
with the family, sit outside at a cafe, garden, etc. If anything, the less
time I need to waste at a physical store, the more free time I have to leave
the house and socialize with others in a much more authentic setting.

------
blueside
I remember reading about a large company in Russia doing something at least 4
or 5 years ago (I think it was Lamoda?) where they sent along a "fashion
assistant" with your selection of clothes.

The fashion assistant drives to your place with all the clothes you want to
try, waits for you to try them on, perhaps offers some suggestions, and then
leaves with whatever you don't want.

Has this type of idea ever been explored in the US?

------
tracker1
As a large guy, this could be potentially a big deal (no pun intended). I hate
clothes shopping, and usually wind up having to try on 2 sizes of everything,
sometimes the larger size fits, sometimes the smaller... often I need to have
a collar lifted regardless.

Frankly, if custom ordering shirts/pants weren't hard to do right and as
costly, I'd just do that.

------
dawnerd
Noticed there's a flag on certain items for Prime Wardrobe. Since there's a 3
item minimum I wonder if this is really just a way to force people to buy more
than they normally would.

They do the same thing (kinda) with Prime Exclusives, which are laughably
almost always available at Walmart and Target for the same price or cheaper...

~~~
thinkling
The most annoying thing (to me) on Amazon is the fact that some items can
_only_ be bought as PrimePantry shipments.

I understand PrimePantry for heavy/bulky items like laundry detergent. I don't
get it for lightweight stuff like razor blades. I can't figure out why those
items can't be bought as Add-On items to regular shipments.

~~~
dawnerd
Even addon-items. I'd gladly pay extra to ship them. But no, gotta force me to
buy 30 dollars of junk I don't need all for a little box of paperclips.

------
datamingle
My girlfriend does this already, but uses the return system from various
stores. Buys identical things in different sizes to see what fits best,
returns the ones that does not fit.

Makes sense to have the discount if you keep items, savings from processing
returns.

~~~
bitL
As a retailer I hate this style and we make sure we add a hefty restocking fee
if an outfit is no longer in a pristine condition. We compete on price, strive
to bring best deal US-wide to our customers, but can't really sustain/accept
model allowing this. It's also unbelievably damaging to environment and
customers like this aren't worth anything to us.

~~~
davb
I work at a company doing retail return analytics (pretty niche) and we've
found that looking at returning customer segments gives a wider picture. In
many cases, high returning customers can be your most profitable in the long
term even after considering cost of returns. Particular segments keep more
than any other (from a financial perspective) despite being returning a
disporportionate amount of the things they buy. They're the most loyal, most
tolerant and often the highest value customers.

~~~
bitL
Clothing retail is super low margin unless you sell high-end luxury goods.
This approach eats basically all the profit and it's not worth for us to have
an average gain of $0.01 on such a customer; we go gladly without them. It's
also like some photographers buy an outfit for a photoshoot and return it back
right after they are done. We can then only sell it off for scraps on eBay
etc. giving us both headache and unnecessary work. If Amazon wants those
customers and burn money on them, let them.

~~~
davb
We work primarily with fashion retailers. Our customers have fairly high
margins even though their clothes range from low end to high end.

Wear and return is certainly prevalent though our customers see it more often
in occasion-wear (for example bridesmaid dresses). Their average customer
values (even their highest returning customers) far exceed $0.01. I'd be
really interested in learning why things are so different at your organisation
(not that I doubt you but it would make for a really interesting dataset!)

We generally try to help clients integrate returns prediction into their
business rules. For example if you've got scarcity of stock, perhaps
prioritise customers who are most likely to keep items. Or if you're handling
customer calls at the contact centre, prioritise customers who are returns
sensitive (those who probably won't shop with you ever again if they have a
poor returns experience).

------
pizzetta
How does this differentiate from the offerings of other clothiers like
TrunkClub (which is a Nordstrom's acquisition)?

Perhaps because it's not a subscription model in the way TC works, people feel
less pressure to keep something?

~~~
VikingCoder
> How does this differentiate from the offerings of other clothiers like
> TrunkClub (which is a Nordstrom's acquisition)?

...because it's Amazon.

No, seriously. Having a feature working somewhere on the internet, is totally
different from having it working on Facebook, Google, or Amazon. Usage goes
through the roof, because people already know and trust those behemoths.

~~~
wonder_bread
^Also true

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mmagin
So does this mean I'm going to start getting other people's bedbugs if I buy
clothes on amazon?

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suyash
Just wait till so many of these boxes will start to get stolen if you just
leave them outside the house.

~~~
xsmasher
Retail sales has "shrinkage" too; I wonder if the rate is higher or lower than
package theft.

------
tuna-piano
First they came for the booksellers, and I did not speak out - for I was not
Barnes and Noble.

Then they came for retailers, and I did not speak out - for I was not Macy's.

Then they came for the cloud, and I did not speak out - for I was not IBM.

Then they came for grocery delivery, and I did not speak out - for I was not
PeaPod.

Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me.

RIP TrunkClub and Stitch Fix?

~~~
dbecker
Wow, borrowing a Holocaust quote.

You just compared good customer service to the largest genocide in human
history.

------
bebna
The question unanswered is: What are the limits?

\- Can I have a box each week?

\- How many items can I put in the box?

\- Do they need to be washed until return?

Why buy, when I can get free ones every week for a fee I already potentionally
pay?

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Jazgot
The best way to get clothes for photo sessions :)

