
Gnome Foundation and Groupon product names – Updated - johngd
https://engineering.groupon.com/2014/misc/gnome-foundation-and-groupon-product-names/#updated
======
joshstrange
Hmmm.... This doesn't seem to line up with what Gnome said [0]:

> It was almost inconceivable to us that Groupon, with over $2.5 billion in
> annual revenue, a full legal team and a huge engineering staff would not
> have heard of the GNOME project, found our trademark registration using a
> casual search, or even found our website, but we nevertheless got in touch
> with them and asked them to pick another name. Not only did Groupon refuse,
> but it has now filed even more trademark applications (the full list of
> applications they filed can be found here [1], here [2] and here). To use
> the GNOME name for a proprietary software product that is antithetical to
> the fundamental ideas of the GNOME community, the free software community
> and the GNU project is outrageous.

Yet Groupon says:

> We’ve been communicating with the Gnome Foundation for months to try to come
> to a mutually satisfactory resolution, including alternative branding
> options, and we’re happy to continue those conversations. And if we can’t
> come up with a resolution, we’ll be glad to look for another name.

If we take the Gnome post as fact it appears Groupon thought they could get
away with this then when they saw the (potential) backlash they backed away
from their position. This may not be the case but I'm much more inclined to
believe Gnome over Groupon

[0] [https://www.gnome.org/groupon/](https://www.gnome.org/groupon/)

[1]
[http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=86200190%0A86200193%0A8620...](http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=86200190%0A86200193%0A86200194%0A86200196%0A86200657%0A86200661%0A86200759%0A86200763%0A86200765%0A86227618%0A&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=multiStatus)

[2]
[http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=86287930%0A86287935%0A8628...](http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=86287930%0A86287935%0A86287938%0A86287940%0A86287946%0A86287951%0A&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=multiStatus)

[3]
[http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=86441913%0A86441922%0A8644...](http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=86441913%0A86441922%0A86441923%0A86441925%0A86441926%0A86441930%0A86441933%0A86441934%0A86441937%0A86441941%0A86441945%0A86441951%0A&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=multiStatus)

~~~
thoughtpalette
Either way Groupon made the right decision here imo

~~~
aDevilInMe
Yet I do not see Groupon apologising for their behaviour, which was evil.

~~~
Udo
I don't think you can characterize it as being evil. There's also no clear
ulterior motive for pushing through with the name, and "capitalizing on the
name recognition of the Gnome project" is not a valid hypothesis since that
name doesn't mean anything for 99% of Groupon's customers.

It looks more like they were just being a typical stubborn corporation. Some
product manager got really attached to the name and they tried to hang on to
it as a matter of course, because they're massive and feel they don't have to
budge to anything. In the end, they caved to negative publicity, as any
company in their position would.

~~~
couchand
You don't say anything that's not exactly right, but you're still missing the
point.

They had the opportunity to own up to their mistake and seek the goodwill of
the community. They missed that chance. Perhaps not "evil", but certainly
worth some continued indignation.

~~~
Udo
_Evil_ was the point, I don't think I missed that. It seems to me _your_ point
is I failed to recognize how much indignation this caused, but that wasn't
really within the scope of the comment I was replying to. And I'm not trying
to debate whether continued indignation is warranted or not.

My suspicion is it'll blow over pretty quickly, though, if for no other reason
than there are more pressing issues keeping most open source developers awake
as opposed to an already resolved trademark dispute which never even went to
court. This was a good day, wasn't it?

~~~
aDevilInMe
Whilst GNOME has not fully disclosed the information, which has been disgust
for months at Board Meetings, I would stand by the evil comment. Groupon, the
massive for profit organisation, made a conscious decision ("Not only did
Groupon refuse ...")to basically say FU to GNOME. They then used their
position as a major organisation to try and coerce them into an unacceptable
situation("alternative branding options") which included filling more
trademark applications.

I would, and do, call them bullies and bullies are evil.

~~~
Udo
I see your point, though I would still reserve the word for stuff that is at
least an order of magnitude more troubling. Including this comment, I said so
three times in different variations, and the fact that we're arguing over this
word still means we probably can't arrive at a common definition of what
constitutes "1.0 units of evil" which we all agree on.

Barring this common definition, I'd rather talk about the facts of what
happened, or even useful speculation and opinions about it, than to discuss
labels that have different meanings for every single person reading this.

It's getting a bit unproductive. I'm sorry to have entered this discussion now
because it makes me sound like I'm defending behavior that I don't actually
support.

------
SwellJoe
How is it that every time I see any article, blog post, whatever, about
Groupon, including posts by Groupon themselves, I find myself feeling kinda
like I need a shower? Some of their sliminess gets on me every time I come in
contact with anything they do.

It takes incredible chutzpah (and not in a good way) to operate the way they
operate. They wanted to trademark "Gnome" for a software product, and expected
the GNOME project to just roll over and let it happen! It's as though no one
else on the planet even exists or matters, in their estimation.

How is it that so many seemingly reputable investors are involved in this
thing again? Groupon should have died on the vine six months into the story,
but it didn't, and now we have to deal with their bullshit forever, I guess.

~~~
Rayearth
Yea, I was wondering where I had heard of Groupon before recently - I assumed
that it was due to some of their shady business practices hitting the news -
and realized that these were the same guys that sent a recruitment email about
a junior Rails dev position to David Heinemeier Hansson.

------
rasengan
Groupon lies. However the end result is good either way for GNOME and open
source. Now the only question is why was the fastest up voted post in HN
history which was Gnome vs Groupon in favor of Gnome moderated to the second
page while this Groupon post is at the top of the front page with almost no
votes!

Does someone at HN have stock in groupon or something? Either way it's time
for a transparent Blockchain based HN/reddit. This moderator bias crap is bs.

~~~
AnkhMorporkian
I want to see any emails before I determine that they were lying. There's no
reason to assume bad faith.

~~~
DanBC
Except they chose to use the name Gnome which was already being used which is
a bad faith move. There's no possible way they didn't know about Gnome -
there's photographs of at least one Groupon employee who was also involved in
Gnome.

~~~
tzs
There isn't anything inherently wrong with using a name someone is already
using. The issue is whether or not the subsequent user's use would cause
confusion in the prior user's markets. Heck, the GNOME Foundation themselves
are using a name that was already being used. The Lake County Nursery in
Perry, Ohio, registered Gnome as a trademark in 1980, and has used it
continuously ever since.

The Lake County Nursery's use is in class 031 (Natural agricultural products),
and within that class it is in the area of plants.

GNOME Foundation's use is in these classes and areas within those classes:

IC 009 (Electrical and scientific apparatus):

• downloadable computer software tools and libraries used for the development
of other software applications

• downloadable computer software development tools

• downloadable computer software for creating and managing a computer desktop

• downloadable computer software for use as a graphical user interface

• downloadable computer software for word processing, database management, and
use as a spreadsheet

IC 042 (Computer, scientific & legal):

• computer software development

• computer software design

• computer programming for others

• technical consulting services in the field of computer software licensing of
intellectual property

It's pretty clear that none of those are likely to cause confusion in Lake
County Nursery's market, so their using a name already in use was fine.

Here are the classes and areas that Groupon was trying to claim the mark for.
They include several areas in the same classes GNOME's are in, so concern on
the part of the GNOME Foundation is certainly warranted. On the other hand,
trademark classes are very broad (e.g., "Electrical and scientific
apparatus"), and Groupon's areas within these classes are fairly far from
GNOME's areas, so I can see them actually believing that they were far enough
apart to not cause confusion. If it went to a hearing, I could see it going
either way.

IC 009 (Electrical and scientific apparatus):

• computer hardware and software for processing point of sale transactions,
payment transactions, voucher redemption, appointment scheduling, customer
relationship management, customer location detection and awareness, inventory
management, analyzing merchant transactions, and for evaluating and managing
information on business performance and customers

• computer application software for mobile phones, smart phones, PC tablets,
and electronic tablets for processing point of sale transactions, payment
transactions, voucher redemption, appointment scheduling, customer
relationship management, customer location detection and awareness, inventory
management, analyzing merchant transactions, and for evaluating and managing
information on business performance and customers

• computer software and hardware that enables users to send and receive
pricing, financial transaction, customer information, and payment processing
information directly to and from a mobile device and a cloud-based server

• downloadable mobile computer apparatus software applications that enables
users to send and receive pricing, financial transaction and payment
processing information directly to and from a mobile device and a cloud-based
server

• computer hardware, namely, hand-held computing devices in the nature of
credit card processing units consisting of electronic machines for reading
credits cards, tablet computers for point of sale transactions, payment
calculating machines, and magnetic coded card readers and the software used to
operate the aforementioned computer hardware

• contact management software used to organize and retrieve customer contact
information

• electronic commerce and transaction application software that allows users
to engage in electronic business transactions via a global computer network

• printer software for operating printers and printing. accounting software
used to track and present financial information relating to sales

• schedule management software used to organize and retrieve scheduling
information

• payment systems and devices, namely, electronic card readers, payment
calculating machines, magnetic coded card readers, credit card processing
units consisting of electronic machines for reading credits cards, point of
sale terminals, and multi-functional computer hardware with payment function

• computer hardware, namely, electronic card readers for electronically
readable cards

• tablet stands

IC 035 (Advertising and business):

• providing marketplace information, namely, commercial information on
merchants, customers, consumer products, and business events and services

• providing business information in the field of point of sale transactions,
payment transactions, voucher redemption, appointment scheduling, customer
relationship management, customer location detection and awareness, inventory
management, merchant transactions, business performance, and customers

• providing a website featuring ratings, reviews and recommendations on
products and services offered by merchants, consumer products, business events
and services, and business information related to sale transactions, payment
transactions, voucher redemption, appointment scheduling, customer
relationship management, customer location detection and awareness, inventory
management, merchant transactions, business performance, and customers

• business planning and management for marketing, promoting or advertising the
goods and services of others

• marketing, promotional marketing, and advertising services

• administration of a customer loyalty reward program to promote the retail
services of others for participants to obtain benefits from purchases of a
company's goods and services

• appointment scheduling services

IC 042 (Computer, scientific & legal):

• providing use of cloud-based non-downloadable software for processing point
of sale transactions, payment transactions, voucher redemption, appointment
scheduling, customer relationship management, customer location detection and
awareness, inventory management, analyzing merchant transactions, and for
evaluating and managing information on business performance and customers

• providing temporary use of non-downloadable software that enables users to
send and receive pricing, financial transaction, customer information, and
payment processing information directly to and from a mobile device and a
cloud-based server

• software as a service (SAAS) services featuring software that enables users
to send and receive pricing, financial transaction, customer information, and
payment processing information directly to and from a mobile device and a
cloud-based server

• providing use of cloud-based non-downloadable software for payment services,
merchant analytics, and for evaluating and managing information on business
performance and customers

• technical support services, namely, troubleshooting in the nature of
diagnosing computer hardware problems and troubleshooting of computer software
problems

• installation and maintenance services for computer software for processing
point of sale transactions, payment transactions, voucher redemption,
appointment scheduling, customer relationship management, customer location
detection and awareness, inventory management, analyzing merchant
transactions, and for evaluating and managing information on business
performance and customers

------
ppereira
From the linked post:

> UPDATE: After additional conversations with the open source community and
> the Gnome Foundation, we have decided to abandon our pending trademark
> applications for “Gnome.” We will choose a new name for our product going
> forward.

------
kstrauser
In the words of Winston Churchill, more or less:

Groupon will always do the right thing... but only after everything else
fails.

------
hadoukenio
As a show of good faith, Groupon should write the Gnome Foundation a check for
the remaining $12k (currently at $68k)

~~~
SEJeff
It would be a tax write off for them either way, so a huge PR win, and a small
tax win.

~~~
pit
Maybe this is actually a really sneaky fundraiser for GNOME, sponsored by
Groupon.

------
fdej
"There is some recent confusion" is such a wonderful euphemism.

------
cpach
See
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8590335](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8590335)

~~~
dang
Thank you. We missed that one.

------
pkaye
New trademark under consideration... KDE :)

------
johngd
Interestingly, their largest publicity bump since July was largely negative,
at least among those that that would read tech news:
[http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=groupon](http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=groupon)

Considering that their <name-TBD> point-of-sale platform was largely targeted
at small businesses that assumingly would follow this type of news, I am
curious how long it takes for them to rebrand this product and how long they
wait to roll it out... if at all.

------
subpixel
"We love open source at Groupon. We have open sourced a number of projects on
Groupon github."

I would have expected some reference to how crucial open source has been, and
continues to be, to Groupon's ability to function as a modern internet
business. Not a small omission.

------
hydrozen
I hope they rename it to "Washington Redskins".

------
eridal
Gnome made more than 60k from this, while Groupon declined their plans.
Flawless victory?

~~~
venomsnake
IANAL but I think it will be nightmare for their accountants.

There should be some safeguards in the law that you cannot easily re purpose
solicited donations for a cause.

~~~
rectang
The GNOME folks considered that in their solicitation. From
<[http://gnome.org/groupon/>](http://gnome.org/groupon/>):

    
    
        If we are able to defend the mark without spending
        this amount, we will use the remaining funds to
        bolster and improve GNOME. 
    

I donated, and I'm pleased that they exhibited such forethought and will still
be able to make good use of the funds.

