
Ask HN: What's the oldest piece of software still in use? - jgrahamc
I use a 13 year old copy of Quicken for bank account management. I&#x27;m interested in examples of software that are older than that and still being used.<p>I&#x27;m not interested in software that&#x27;s been patched over the years, but code that&#x27;s been unchanged for years and is still in active use. Are you using any DOS programs, for example?
======
edw519
I wrote the lot traceability module of Compufact's ERP package in 1987. 3
years ago, I engaged a company that still used that software. Just for fun, I
searched for my initials in their repository. Good news: that software was
still being used. Not so good news: one of my programs had been changed 120
times, including bug fixes. I pretended that it was written by another "edw".

~~~
yaddayadda
So over 26 years, there have been 120 edits? Including bug fixes? Which means
not all 120 edits were bug fixes, presumably it included other things like
feature enhancements? That's less than 5 _changes_ a year on average for a 26
year old program. In my book, unless you're working on a life-or-death system
or a space-bound system [1], less than 5 changes a year over 26 years is
something to be proud of!

[1] And no one individual programmer should be _solely_ responsible for life-
or-death systems or space-bound systems.

------
jonnathanson
Let's define "still in use," because that's the heart of the question.
Technically speaking, I'm sure someone could dig an Apple IIc out of storage
somewhere and successfully run a game on it. Hell, someone out there might be
doing that right now. To me, that anecdotal experience doesn't translate into
"in use."

I'd define "in use" to mean still in productive service to a group of people
or institutions significant enough to represent a niche market.

For that, I'd probably look to things like avionics software in certain
airplanes, navigation systems on old ships, firmware in medical devices and
diagnostics, or perhaps to inventory management systems in old warehouses.

And who knows what firmware we loaded onto our Cold War-era ICBMs, for that
matter? Or what dusty, backwards-compatible systems we would need to maintain
control over them? Would anyone like to play a game? :)

~~~
tjr
Similarly: I worked on some avionics networking software a few years back,
written in C, and a surprisingly old version of GCC (I think from the late
1990's, in 2006-2007, so approximately a decade old then) was being used. That
particular version had already been qualified for avionics development at the
company, and to upgrade to a newer version would have meant assuming the cost
of requalification.

Just so long as the old compiler worked well enough, they had no reason to
upgrade. (I did uncover a bug in the compiler which I had to work around, but
wasn't enough to warrant an upgrade.)

------
67726e
There was an article a few months back about a company in Texas using a very
old computer dating to 1948:
[http://www.pcworld.com/article/249951/if_it_aint_broke_dont_...](http://www.pcworld.com/article/249951/if_it_aint_broke_dont_fix_it_ancient_computers_in_use_today.html)

------
Nursie
Ask a mainframe shop. The back-compat date for mainframes, even just-off-the-
line System Z boxes, is 1964.

\--edit-- I also play Commodore 64 games in emulators, and they date from the
80s, but I suspect this is not the sort of answer you're looking for.

~~~
mathgorges
I'm doing an internship at a mainframe shop right now.

I took a look into it and the oldest macro I could find that I use semi
regularly is SYS1.MACLIB(DCBD). A utility for working with data control blocks
which dates back to 1977, putting it at 36 years old.

There are definitely older programs on the system, but I'm not sure how often
they're used.

~~~
VLM
I bet IEFBR14 beats it. I also think it wins in the "smallest number of
patches per year for actively used software" category.

~~~
Someone
And (apocryphally) "largest number of patches per byte"
([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEFBR14#History_from_the_RISKS_...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEFBR14#History_from_the_RISKS_Digest))

------
Piskvorrr
Prehistorik 2 (1993) even displays a notice on startup "wow, this game still
runs in 2013", blisfully unaware that it's inside DosBox on an Android tablet.

So indeed, the oldest software will probably be running inside a VM.

~~~
RBerenguel
Titus the Fox also does this (1992 by the same developers IIRC)

------
derefr
The "running unpatched" part would make me bet on embedded software. Maybe
some machine in a factory still usefully following a 50-year-old punch-card to
"print out" patterned carpets, for example.

------
davidw
This seems relevant:

[http://www.pcworld.com/article/249951/if_it_aint_broke_dont_...](http://www.pcworld.com/article/249951/if_it_aint_broke_dont_fix_it_ancient_computers_in_use_today.html)

~~~
pbhjpbhj
The article initially concerns a company that uses an IBM 402 - a punch card
reading/writing accounting machine with plug-board programs - that has been in
service over 50 years.

It covers PDP's and some home systems (eg Apple IIe) too.

------
buro9
WinAmp 2, which I believe is from 1998/1999.

I have a zip of the download, and just keep installing it and moving forward.
I never quite made the jump to Winamp 3 and once I stopped moving forward
every update to Winamp deterred me some more.

~~~
JanezStupar
Try Foobar2000.

~~~
buro9
I have.

Over the years I have tried everything, but I like WinAmp 2.

WinAmp 2 just works great. It's no nonsense and I love the quick find (CTRL+J)
on the library... search file name, path, and metadata. Which is how I need
search to work, based on my file conventions as well as the metadata.

~~~
oakwhiz
Don't older versions of Winamp contain security vulnerabilities?

------
kotnik
Canadian nuclear industry has committed to continue the use of PDP-11 until
2050. I guess they have some software there running from 70s. Here's a recent
ad for PDP-11 assembly coders they're in dire need of:

[http://www.vintage-
computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?37827...](http://www.vintage-
computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?37827-Greetings-from-GE-Canada)

~~~
gruseom
That is simply incredible.

------
TheBeardKing
In military maintenance we use loads of software developed in the 70s on old
test stations. These programs slowly get rehosted to newer testers, or until
the systems under test go obsolete.

Where I work we have hundreds of engineers programming in Teradyne's LASAR
software, rehosting old programs onto new digital test platforms. LASAR was
developed in the mid 80s and we have it running on VAX and UNIX servers. Since
electronics no longer use combinational logic in discrete chips, no newer
software is available.

------
matthudson
I work in a biochemistry research laboratory at a large, well funded
university. It's interesting to observe the software/hardware usage around the
lab.

The boring majority of software in the lab is just the latest iteration of a
'Microsoft-whatever' suite stuffed into a standard enterprise Dell box.

It's the exceptions that are interesting.

For example, a few weeks ago the lab's last PC that ran Windows 95 died. That
really sucked for a few people because a piece of proprietary software that
ran an important microscope camera only ran on Windows 95. (Only ran on Win95
if you didn't want to pay big time for an upgrade to a modern OS.)

Intriguingly, a PI I am working with is planning on using his old Silicon
Graphics machine very soon. He told me there are still certain features
lacking in modern software that can be found on software written for some
older SG machines.

Finally, we are in the process of restoring an old machine that is frequently
used for pulling apart very thin pieces of glass for electrophysiology
experiments. Granted, all the software inside is embedded. But the software
and the hardware still exceed 13 years of age by a wide margin.

It's really neat to see older programs and hardware chugging along. And it's
strangely reassuring to see that while encountering the latest Javascript
framework debate on Hacker News.

------
vtbose
Do space probes count?
[http://history.nasa.gov/computers/Ch6-2.html](http://history.nasa.gov/computers/Ch6-2.html)

------
noonespecial
We use DOS programs within virtual machines to process data that comes in on
1/2" tape from government sources and return it to them on DVD's. The oldest
of these would be mid 80's I guess.

Edit: Changed "in-virtuo" to "within virtual machines" for clarity.

~~~
shubb
The science lot usually call simulation 'In silico' in their papers.
Personally, unnecessary latin makes me cringe.

~~~
noonespecial
You're probably right. I can still edit, I'll change for clarity.

------
zarify
I was doing some work for a friend of mine late last year and he was still
running his DOS-based accounting software from 1987 I think. I can't remember
the name of it though. He wouldn't abandon it, so now that he has a new
computer he's running it in a VM, including a virtual parallel printer since
it wouldn't recognise his new one.

I still tease him about it.

------
jeremymcanally
There is an accountant at a company I briefly worked for who still uses an
Apple II and some archaic accounting software that he learned to do accounting
on. He refuses to change, so they just have a big stack of Apple IIs in a
closet to replace them when they wear out. That software probably hasn't been
touched since 1980 at the latest.

~~~
ewams
Can we get a picture of that?

------
jetsnoc
I worked for a small rural telephone company who still operates a DMS100. One
of my job duties as an on-call Unix system administrator was to perform a
reel-to-reel tape backup on it. This DMS100 was installed in 1983 and the
programs that operate on it must be much older than that. Still operates
today.

------
ambiate
We are using Ingres Databases from the early 90s or late 80s. We have tens of
billions of rows.

List of missing things: EVERYTHING. Primary/Foreign key relationships are
buggy, therefore, not used. Views are somewhat available. Joins are buggy.
Have to build all indices by hand choosing the relational columns and data
structure/allocation. Cannot subtract sets without huge where clauses with
very odd syntax. Rely mostly on WHERE EXISTS/NOT EXISTS or WHERE IN. Can only
perform single column queries in a where clause, no WHERE (a, b) IN. Its free
and it works. IT is a cost center. No new databases anytime in the near
future.

------
Peroni
Does my copy of Asteroids for the Atari 2600 count? It's been locked up in
storage in my mothers attic for about 15 years and the last time I was back
home it still worked perfectly. I believe the game is close to 30 years old.

------
ioquatix
Compilers are pretty interesting- the current compiler was compiled by the
previous compiler. Theoretically, our modern compilers embody ~40 years of
history..

------
anywherenotes
I made a website that's by now obsolete for anyone but me, but I still use it.
It went live in late 2002 and hasn't been patched since early/mid 2003. This
year 1and1 (my host) disabled MYSQL 4, so I moved database to MYSQL 5, but did
not change the code. I have grandiose hopes to update it to look current.

Although now that I look at it, they say my version of php will be phased out
August 1'st :( And they are raising the price on August 1'st ...

~~~
emhart
Link to the site before time runs out? I love seeing "antique" websites.

~~~
anywherenotes
[http://orig.anywherenotes.com/](http://orig.anywherenotes.com/)

If you click something that goes to page-not-found, make sure the link has
'orig' in front of it, because in some places I went directly to www

------
gabipurcaru
Not that old, but I always found it interesting that we learned C/C++ in
highschool using a version of Borland from 1993, which made the program as old
as myself.

------
wtvanhest
This isn't the oldest, but is definitely one of the oldest softwares that is
used at almost every restaurant in the US and maybe other countries as well.

Aloha Restaurant POS

Watch this youtube video, then watch what servers use at your favorite
restaurants.

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlXCfs75SkI](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlXCfs75SkI)

I used it back in 1998 at a restaurant and it felt old then. Still used at
almost every bar, restaurant I go to.

------
TomT
I know of a Government organisation still using 25 year old software running
on VAX/VMS ! Hardware support is the main reason they are getting rid of it !

------
brudgers
Though not the oldest by any means, the testing software used for the
Architectural Registration Exam in the US and Canada uses Microsoft Media
Viewer, Macro-Vision, and the Sirlin engine for handling AutoCad R12 files -
all early 90's technology from before NT and 95 [i.e. Windows 3.x].

It was patched for Vista, but doesn't run fully under any x64 version owing to
it's 16 bit code.

There is a new version in the pipeline at the National Council of
Architectural Registration Boards, but the old validated test engine is still
in everyday use.

The hangup is the Media Viewer 1.3 technology. I believe based on comments I
previously [2007] made elsewhere that this was Windows 3.0 technology - it's
pretty much impossible these days to do a native search for anything which can
be interpreted as related to a current commercial technology.

The practice programs for the Architect Registration Exam still use it and can
be downloaded from NCARB:

[http://www.ncarb.org/en/ARE/Preparing-for-the-
ARE.aspx](http://www.ncarb.org/en/ARE/Preparing-for-the-ARE.aspx)

------
mkl
The software on the Voyager probes is pretty old, 1977, and I can't find
anything that says it's been (or can be) updated since.

~~~
VLM
Amsat AO-7 from '74 handily beats it.

Some of the "program" in AO-7 is discrete hardwired. Depends if you demand its
reprogramable. In which case mask programmed rom devices are unintentionally
removed. Or keyboards which are debounced in hardware instead of software are
unintentionally removed because the debouncing is done in hardware logic not
software. AO-7 is probably "close enough to count" although I can sympathize
with an argument against it.

------
pcdavid
The (probably very small) pieces of software on-board the Pioneer 10? It was
launched in 1973 and has certainly never been touched since.

~~~
Someone
Pioneer 10 didn't/doesn't really have a computer.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_10#Power_and_communicat...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_10#Power_and_communications):

 _" The spacecraft included two command decoders and a command distribution
unit, a very limited form of processor, to direct operations on the
spacecraft"_

If we call what it has a computer, it was reprogrammed remotely:

 _" Much of the computation for the mission was performed on Earth and
transmitted to the probe, where it was able to retain in memory up to five
commands of the 222 possible entries by ground controllers"_

That happened as late as March 2001 (and possibly even later, as communication
was finally lost in January 2003):
[http://www.strobedata.com/home/pioneer10.html](http://www.strobedata.com/home/pioneer10.html)

------
jpswade
It's an unusual question because you've not really defined the goal posts very
well.

I know a lot of old pub quiz machines still running on Windows 2000.

However, the real question here is: Why are you using a piece of software that
is 13 years old even though there are patches/updates for it?

------
mathattack
It's worth ruling out embedded software.

The utilities (include the telecom companies too if you want) have a lot of
assembly code written ages ago that they're afraid to touch. I suspect that's
worth a good first look. I think 50 years is a reasonable guess.

------
lifeisstillgood
The jacquard loom at the museum in France?

How about our very own jgc running calculation jobs from Charles Babbage?

If that's too historical then the chances are good it is written in Fortran,
and being used by a cosmologist on a telescope somewhere up high.

------
stevekinney
For a lot of people in non-technical professions it might actually be Windows
XP.

That is, of course, if we're putting aside some of the basic UNIX tools that
probably haven't changed since the 1970s—which I think is fair.

~~~
chewxy
I believe that honour goes to dc (if you're in linux, you can still use dc).

~~~
pdw
In Linux, "dc" will be GNU dc, which would have been written late 80s or early
90s, like most other GNU utilities. And it would have been maintained/modified
over the years.

(A better example would be the bsdgames collection. It's a lot older and has
barely been touched over the years.)

------
caw
I found some Perl code of my coworker's in a recent internal product. It had
his name at the top of the file, and the year 1997. I mentioned it to him, so
he pulled out the original in his ~/bin, and we diffed them.

The core program was unchanged, there were just some minor changes for this
specific application (e.g. the path changed, and there was like one if block
added for this purpose). So it was pretty much unchanged for over 15 years.

------
DanielBMarkham
The safe bet would be on corporate/academic mainframe software. While lots
have been patched or replaced, I bet there's code from the 70s (perhaps 60s)
still running out there somewhere.

Let's put it this way: there's a market for teaching people how to program
like it was 1975. Nobody around can do it anymore, and the code base is large
enough that both the teaching and skillset are highly valued in some circles.

------
Tinned_Tuna
I know that some of the British Ports systems are running something written in
Delphi 5 that's around 20 - 25 years old for their tickets.

------
kroger
Emacs was launched in 1976:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emacs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emacs)

------
rjohnk
WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS. Why? Because it rocks.

------
anywherenotes
At work we have character-cell UI for financials. New applications plug in
dynamically into the UI. I don't know how old the UI is, but company started
in '78, and I believe that was their first UI. There are various new UI's, but
power users run in character cell - it's fastest and all features enabled.

------
msh
There are still PDP-11's out there running nuclear power plants:

[http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/19/nuke_plants_to_keep_...](http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/19/nuke_plants_to_keep_pdp11_until_2050/)

------
senthilnayagam
Foxpro/Clipper Apps running on DOS , there are couple of shops using them
still in India

------
jonjacky
We're still using a PDP11 with software written in 1981-84 to run parts our
cyclotron.

------
incision
The oldest stuff I've seen in use would be PDP-11s, Wangs, NetWare 3.x and
assorted OS/2 Win 3.1 desktops.

I used 90s versions of Winamp and Xnews until I just stopped caring up local
MP3s and USENET.

------
vacri
gkrellm-bfm. It has had a couple of patches in the past 10 years, so it's not
strictly a fair candidate, but they were trivial.

bfm is 'bubblefishymon', a system monitor that packs a lot of info into a
picture, being that of a fish tank. The level of the water represents RAM
usage, the amount of bubbles indicates CPU usage, fish moving leftwards is
network traffic in, fish moving rightwards is network traffic out, and there's
even a floating rubber duck... which represents a duck!

------
Ashuu
Turbo C 3.0 is still used in many schools and colleges!

~~~
abdulqabiz
I was about to say that, thankfully I searched for Turbo before posting.

I know many who use many years old DOS based Tally, accounting software.

------
robmcm
Lotus notes!

~~~
eliben
You poor soul.

------
bdz
nbench from 95/96
[http://www.tux.org/~mayer/linux/bmark.html](http://www.tux.org/~mayer/linux/bmark.html)

------
31reasons
If we consider all forms of software. DNA is the oldest.

~~~
Zuider
RNA is older.

------
protomyth
When I use Windows, I tend to use PFE as a text editor.

~~~
spydum
I also used to be an avid PFE32 user, but I finally gave in to Notepad++, and
have not regretted it.. you may want to check it out!

~~~
protomyth
Thanks for the suggestion. I don't really use Windows anymore, but will keep
it in mind. I do wish I could find a simple text editor with PFE32 like macro
record and templates for OS X.

------
codegeek
vi. Whenever I log on to a UNIX system, I end up using vi in some shape or
form.

