
Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review - silvio
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/model-3/2018/exclusive-tesla-model-3-first-drive-review/
======
Roritharr
I really hope the German government does something to make it more desirable
for employees to want the Model 3 or similar cars as company cars.

Just to explain the involved costs: There's two ways the government taxes
company cars for employees, either you get to write a driving log, that then
marks each route as either private or business and then you get the privately
driven part taxed as income OR you just get 1% of the new car value taxed as
income each month and don't have to provide a driving log. The company pays
for leasing, gas and maintenance.

That's where electric cars savings on fuel and maintenance don't affect
business customers, they don't care mostly because the company pays for the
gas anyway and is used to do that so it will stay that way quite a while.

I just hope they give a tax break on the 1% rule, so it's just 0,5 or
something similar that makes these cars more desirable compared to a similar
priced gas guzzler.

~~~
samnwa
Yes, but the Tesla looks cool so even business owners can see that.

~~~
URSpider94
The issue is that many European companies provide cars to their employees as a
benefit. The employees then have to pay tax on their personal use of the car,
at a rate proportional to the price. It's not the business owners who will
care - it's the employees who have to pay the tax.

------
jimmcslim
Is there a HUD or do I have to move my eyes to the centre console to check my
speed? Seems like bad ergonomics to me... and whereas the road ahead is
perhaps still in my peripheral vision when I check my speedo, its less so if I
am glancing at the centre console (which maybe has a bunch of other
distracting things on it as well?)

~~~
laydn
Center console indicators are quite common. One advantage is that, the
indicators are never blocked when you are in a turn. With your traditional
instrument cluster placement, the steering wheel blocks the indicators.

Cars with instruments in the center dashboard:

Mini Cooper: [http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/2010-mini-cooper-
hardtop-2-do...](http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/2010-mini-cooper-
hardtop-2-door-coupe-s-dashboard_100304478_l.jpg)

Toyota Yaris:
[https://cars.usnews.com/static/images/Auto/izmo/306771/2009_...](https://cars.usnews.com/static/images/Auto/izmo/306771/2009_toyota_yaris_dashboard.jpg)

Saturn ION: [http://consumerguide.com/wp-
content/uploads/2014/07/05130061...](http://consumerguide.com/wp-
content/uploads/2014/07/05130061990005.jpg)

Citroen C4 Picasso: [https://s-media-cache-
ak0.pinimg.com/736x/fe/d6/5a/fed65a4f2...](https://s-media-cache-
ak0.pinimg.com/736x/fe/d6/5a/fed65a4f2364be22592dc89c495a4587--citroen-c-
picasso-family-cars.jpg)

etc...

~~~
SideburnsOfDoom
Mini Cooper: There is a speedometer directly behind steering wheel, in a
smaller secondary instrument panel, as shown in the picture.

Toyota Yaris: Not shown in that picture is the Head Up Display projected onto
the windscreen, even closer to the driver's line of sight. I drove a Yaris for
a few days a while back, and the HUD is good - not distracting there's and no
need to turn your head, which would be dangerous.

Citroen C4: Another HUD [http://www.citroen.co.uk/about-
citroen/technology/head-up-di...](http://www.citroen.co.uk/about-
citroen/technology/head-up-display)

Saturn ION: Seems to be the only valid example. I don't know myself, can't
remember ever being in a Saturn ION. Wikipedia tells me that GM does not make
them anymore.

it still seems to me that for reasons of safety , you want _some_
instrumentation to be very close to the driver's default line of sight. Not
necessarily all of it, but a few key indicators such as speed.

~~~
MarcelGerber
I drive a Yaris myself (the center display looks different than the one
pictured, but the concept is the same). It doesn't have a HUD and I actually
love the center display. As stated before, it is never blocked. In a turn,
when a normal instrument panel is behind the steering wheel, I can still
monitor the speedometer and shift gears according to the speed. Also, I
totally have the road in vision when looking at the speedometer.

------
Animats
Nice, but $59,500 as shown. Not $35,000. The real-world price has crept up.
The base model has a small battery.

The Tesla Model S starts at $68,000. So the real-world price is down only 13%
from the Model S.

~~~
_ph_
The "small battery" still has more range than any other electric car out
there, except the Bolt, which has a very small lead, but does not seem to be
made in large numbers. And it matches the promised range (>215 miles). So it
is great value for everyone, who does not need the 300 mile range. So you do
get a sporty (0-60 <6s) 5 seated electrical sedan for 35k, which is great.

~~~
drawnwren
In what world is a sub 6s 0-60 sporty? The WRX gets 4.6, and I'd consider that
the edge of sporty (also cheaper than the 3).

~~~
kllrnohj
The WRX is 0-60 in 5.5s. You might be thinking of the STI which is 0-60 in
4.7s (STI starts at $37k, too).

But 0-60 is not what defines sportiness, it's the total package including
handling and driver engagement & feel.

Case in point: The Miata is one of the all time great sports cars, and it does
not accelerate quickly.

~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
I'm going to definitely agree with that.

The 2005 onward NC model Mazda MX-5 Miata: _A test by Car and Driver magazine
revealed a 0-60 mph (97 km /h) time of 6.5 s for the 2.0 L (120 cu in)
U.S.-spec NC_[1]

I suspect the average MX-5 owner is quite happy with the characteristics their
vehicle. Hell, I consider my long wheel base turbo diesel VW T5 Transporter
quite _sport_ to drive. For a (very basic) camper van.

1\.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_MX-5](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_MX-5)

------
mack1001
If everything goes right, Model 3 can change the business model of cars. Shift
to value add + functionality upgrade based pricing versus a sales and service
oriented model.

~~~
randyrand
Also they own the repair market. You can't get your tesla serviced at a normal
shop as the software, parts, and diagnostics are proprietary, so they could
actually sell the car at a loss and make the big bucks on repairs.

I don't want this. But its a viable business model.

~~~
syshum
We will have to see how long that lasts

Right now there are not enough of them on the road nationwide to justify a
secondary shops wanting to service them, however if they meet their goals with
the Tesla 3 there will be

This will result in law suits against Tesla if they do not provide a way for
3rd parties to make parts and service the vehicles as there are multiple
federal laws the prevent this type of locking down

Car manufacturers have tried this in the past, it always fails to work out of
them.

------
headmelted
I'm certain if I ever own a Tesla, it'll be a long way into the future.

I'm glad they keep pushing forward though, it's causing the infrastructure to
advance to a point where I'm almost ready to go fully EV.

Where I am, a low-mileage (20-30k) 3-5 year old Nissan Leaf is the equivalent
of around $12k with no road tax to pay. And it gets around 150mpg equivalent
due to electricity prices.

Exciting times!

~~~
perryh2
The Nissan Leaf is a terrible EV. The 3-5 year old models you mention have
very low range (~60 miles). That's why they're so cheap. People that own them
are constantly mindful of their charge % and are always on the lookout for
charging stations if they're deviating from their normal commutes. I've seen
many of them run out of juice on the leftmost lanes during commute hours too,
causing even more congestion for miles. If you were looking at new cars, you
can get a 2017 Chevy Bolt with 200+ mile range for not much more than a new
Leaf.

~~~
ctdonath
I drove a Leaf daily for two years. Wonderful vehicle. Know the limits, drive
sensibly.

~~~
headmelted
Genuinely interested in following this up - may I ask why you don't drive it
anymore?

(I hear circumstantially about a lot of people going back to combustion cars
but never why. Is it a range thing?)

~~~
ctdonath
Admittedly, Georgia made it practically free to lease for two years. Lease
ended, gave it back. Buying one outright was a viable option, but buying wife
a nice newish SUV (while I kept the old SUV) won out; she had dibs on the next
vehicle and wanted something big.

------
sunstone
There's also a review up at the verge as well. He seemed to like the interior
for its elegant simplicity. And mentioned that having the speed on the LCD was
likely better for him than having in the usual place. The new prius is similar
in that regard.

------
whitepoplar
For a while, I thought Tesla lacked taste. This new interior proves me wrong.
It is simply stunning. This strikes me as the obvious future of automotive
design.

------
anjc
I'm _sure_ it's a great car in person, but from a casual observer's
perspective, the dash looks like they upcycled the trim from a 70s car/station
wagon/boat by sticking a shitty Android tablet onto it. It reminds me of
something they'd whip up on Mythbusters to remotely drive off a cliff, under
tight budget constraints.

~~~
bryanlarsen
The motor trend reviewer described it as Scandinavian minimalistic, which is
more associated with the 60s and midcentury modern style.

------
elmar
The Tesla Model 3 has the most minimalistic interior I've ever seen

[http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-3-minimalistic-
in...](http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-3-minimalistic-
interior-2017-7)

~~~
_ph_
Which is, as long as it doesn't cut important functionality away, for me very
preferable to an interior style littered with screens and buttons and knobs. I
think the Model 3 is even an improvement to the S there, you have a more
minimalistic looking interior even, but they added important usability with
proper door handles and pockets and the center console.

~~~
hoorayimhelping
I got a 2017 Subaru Impreza with a touch screen interface. Terrible idea on a
car. I'm constantly accidentally grazing the touch screen and changing things
that I'm not sure of cause I'm watching the road. Too many buttons is awful,
but a touchscreen is even worse. You need some kind of physical feeling when
you're not looking at the screen and your brain isn't being tricked by the
screen.

~~~
elmar
Personally I think the touchscreen option was because of lower cost and more
options when updating the car software.

------
Keyframe
While I appreciate almost everything Tesla does, and I may be in minority with
this opinion here, but damn are their cards ugly / generic looking. Especially
so with the interior. I like spartan features, or lack of, but it's just -
ugly.

------
grecy
For all of Elon's attempts to "unsell" the Model 3, this review says it's
fantastic enough to sell itself.

~~~
mandeepj
> Elon's attempts to "unsell" the Model 3

Yes, he tried a lot to unsell it earlier but he was trying to sell it while
giving access to today's live stream :-)

------
acomjean
Rear wheel drive? For those of us in snowy places....

~~~
falcolas
Agreed. Especially really torquie rear wheel drives, where the slightest bit
too much pressure on the gas will send your rear end zooming around.

I'm to the point where I only ever want to drive AWD vehicles in the winter. A
safe and predictable commute is worth the slight markup.

~~~
fulafel
Safety comes from all-wheel braking, not all-wheel acceleration. As long as
you have traction/stability control, AWD is not really any safer unless you're
on a winter rallye track (=want to accelerate into corners).

See eg. this study:
[http://indexsmart.mirasmart.com/25esv/PDFfiles/25ESV-000260....](http://indexsmart.mirasmart.com/25esv/PDFfiles/25ESV-000260.pdf)

~~~
falcolas
That paper acknowledges that AWD does provide more traction than 2WD, it just
says that drivers can become overconfident as a result of that extra traction.

Their data also shows that for cars, across all types of cars, AWD cars are in
fewer overall (though more severe; the focus of the paper) accidents than 2wd
cars.

Given my own experience, even considering this paper, I still want an AWD.

~~~
fulafel
If we're talking about safety, then the injury risk is kind of important.

The paper did not do any research on traction or driver overconfidence so
remarks about these are just casual commentary, but for the record, the
mention of AWD traction is not particularly relevant to avoiding traffic
accidents:

"While these important results imply that AWD shall not be considered as a
safety feature, it should be kept in mind that AWD does have benefits in terms
of improved traction compared to 2WD cars, for instance on icy uphills,
snowdrifts and, depending on the vehicle, in off-road driving"

~~~
falcolas
"AWD technologies should be further developed so that slippery road conditions
are not disguised by the _improved traction provided by AWD_."

AWD provides more traction, and thus more control than 2WD. I have no desire
to give that up because some people take more control to mean "I can go
faster." You're welcome to come to a different conclusion.

------
kumarvvr
What sort of maintenance are performed on these cars??

Seems like there is nothing to be maintained, given the all steel, aluminum,
glass stuff everywhere.

Does it have any oil changes required, like in brakes or transmission?

~~~
mach5
i can't speak for the Model 3, but i own a Bolt, here's the service schedule
for that:

* every 7,500mi: rotate tires

* every 22,500mi: change cabin air filter

* every 5 years: replace brake fluid

* every 150,000mi: replace battery cooling fluid

that's it. crazy!

~~~
izacus
> * every 7,500mi: rotate tires

What's that?

~~~
kumarvvr
You change the position of the tires. The front ones are removed and fixed at
the rear and the rear ones are removed and fixed at the front.

Allows for uniform wear and tear for the tires.

Some even interchange the left and right tires.

~~~
skoocda
Left <-> right interchange doesn't really happen anymore since radial tires
have become standard on most vehicles.

Radial tires are unidirectional, so if you go left -> right your tires will be
rotating backwards, and then they won't be able to channel water out from the
treads.

------
fernly
This is impressive,

> associate road test editor Erick Ayapana had penciled me into a 2.0-liter
> Alfa Romeo Giulia to get here, and it feels like a wet sponge by comparison.

------
adventured
I'm curious about the risk of the center detached tablet becoming a loose,
dangerous projectile in the event of a crash. I haven't seen anything so far
on how they've attached it to ensure that's not a problem in hard collisions.

~~~
akx
I think "tablet" is a misnomer here (though understandable) - calling it a
touchscreen would be better. Anyway, seems it's sturdily attached:
[http://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/5/2017/07/Tesla-
Model...](http://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/5/2017/07/Tesla-
Model-3-front-interior-seats.jpg)

------
booop
No comments on the interiors? It looks more befitting in a prototype than a
$36,000+ car.

~~~
sliken
Never really understood the "luxury" interiors with huge number of details,
materials, mixes of leathers, wood, different kinda of metal, etc.

The interior that stood out to me was porsche 911 from around 1970. Not
distracting, simple, robust, and lasts 30 years (when I saw it).

A larger display for excellent situational awareness (map, gps, dozen or so
cameras, ultrasonic, and radar). What were you hoping for? A few dozen chrome
knobs sprinkled around?

There's already two knobs on the right and left of the steering wheel,
hopefully you can customize them for whatever you use the most. They didn't
mention speech recognition. But if my phone can manage to be woken up and nav
to wherever I need to go, seems like it shouldn't be too far behind for tesla.
Two knobs, big screen, and voice prompts sounds good to me.

~~~
ardit33
Touch screens are terrible to use while driving, especially for frequent
operations (volume, change stations, climate control, hazard lights, wipers,
etc). The current trend is to push more into these touch interfaces, but most
car manufactures have still left some of the more important ones as physical
buttons.

For tesla the matter is not ergonomics, but simply cost.

~~~
martin_bech
Wipers are automatic, volume, stations and fan speed are on the steering wheel
(aling with voice control at other setting. at least on my Model S)

~~~
falcolas
I love automatic wipers. They turn on in the _wierdest_ situations.
Particularly when you've been on a road trip and your windshield is covered
with a nice smattering of bug guts.

~~~
martin_bech
They are pretty good on the Tesla, and i believe have even gotten better, with
over the air software updates :).

------
headmelted
At this price I'm actually kind of interested in what the lease prices would
be.

I realize the waiting list is going to be really long of course, but the lease
prices (assuming no opportunistic markup at the leasing company) should come
in at a price point that actually makes this pretty cheap when fuel is taken
into account.

Hopefully Tesla have the good sense to embrace this wholeheartedly, as I
suspect that's where the critical mass could come from (and due to the short
timeframes on car leases, extremely rapidly).

------
tobyhinloopen
I love the Model S but this one is a bit too minimalistic for me

------
whitepoplar
Today, Tesla's design ability is about on par with Apple's circa 2000. But
Tesla has much higher slope. Watch out.

------
mtgx
> _Tesla’s trying to change the vocabulary we’re using to describe it, from
> “kilowatt-hours” to “range.”_

I understand why they did it -- Tesla's cars tend to be the most efficient EVs
around, often by significant margins compared to competitors. But for someone
who was hoping battery size competition would be the new megapixel race, this
is quite disappointing to hear.

I suppose "range" could be used in the same way, but range is less "hard
factual", as they can twist it however they want, unless they actually use the
EPA and WLTP cycles.

~~~
davidgould
> Tesla's cars tend to be the most efficient EVs around, often by significant
> margins compared to competitors.

Well, yes and no. Teslas have very low Cd, so are aerodynamically efficient
for their size, but they use AC induction motors which are less efficient then
the PM DC motors in most other EVs. Compared to the Bolt or the Hyundai Ioniq
the Teslas are less efficient at lower speeds.

~~~
DennisP
Now I'm curious, what is the advantage of AC induction motors?

~~~
zwily
It's a good question:
[https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/58236/why-
do...](https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/58236/why-does-a-tesla-
car-use-an-ac-motor-instead-of-a-dc-one)

------
foobarge
Nice but still not what I need. I need a long range electric car whose
interior I won't be afraid to damage from time to time. I need something that
moves me, my family and my stuff (skis, bikes, windsurf + sails,
mountaineering gears, etc..) to where I need to be, not something for showing-
off and asserting status.

The large screen in the middle of the car is a non complete non-starter - lots
of the stuff I carry in my car are going to poke nice holes in it: what a
joke.

Tesla (or anyone else), please build a cheap, high-impact plastic, no-large-
screen interior car with front and rear seats I can fold for lots of room and
I'll buy them for the rest of my life.

What I want is a long-range electric 4x4 Renault Kangoo that is not a utility
vehicle. I'm sure it can be built.

~~~
jessriedel
> ...my stuff (skis, bikes, windsurf + sails, mountaineering gears, etc..) to
> where I need to be, not something for showing-off and asserting status.

Not everyone shows off with fancy cars. Some people like to talk about their
rugged athleticism and outdoor adventures.

~~~
foobarge
I'm not exactly implying that buying a car to show off and assert status is
reprehensible. Have I touched a nerve?

Anyways - I'm just saying that I hope EV manufacturer move up (or down) the
immaculate luxurious interiors trip sooner rather than later so that some of
us can buy and start using EVs without having to constantly worry about
ruining a design project we're probably not worthy of.

~~~
RodericDay
He's a fanboy and trying to make fun of your stated use-case as if you were
the one showing off.

~~~
foobarge
Ah - well, Tesla found a way to make EV sexy and I'm sure they have very
ambitious goals. I'm just hoping that what's next steps down a bit from the
luxurious (at least to me) interior and focuses on cargo space that can be
used without bringing in tears ;-)

