
I Satisfied My Passion for Software Dev and Open-Source by Doing a Part-Time PhD - izzym
http://omerio.com/how-i-satisfied-my-passion-for-software-development-and-open-source-by-doing-a-part-time-phd/
======
pnathan
Looks like a UK PhD. Can't speak to that. But....

I did a part-time MS in the US at a relatively low-pressure school (I switched
to part-time from full-time after looking at my loan level). I can confidently
say that I don't wish anyone to have the experience of working all day, then
coming home and working into the night on research, day after day, rabbit
trail after rabbit trail. My work quality suffered dramatically between full
and part time grad school.

I would love to have a PhD sometime, but I simply don't have the ability to do
what I would consider adequate research when I work part-time.

edit: Oh yes. There's a collaborative environment when working in the halls of
the academy. That is, IMO, an intangible and extremely valuable experience. It
is _not_ like undergrad in the US.

~~~
light_hue_1
This isn't a UK PhD, at least it's not up to the standard of any rational UK
PhD I've ever seen.

I've supervised Masters theses and PhDs in the US at a top institution. No one
can do a part-time PhD; it's just so much work. The fact that Reading is
willing to sign a PhD with basically no research with one publication in an
absurd venue is pretty sad. This wouldn't pass for a thesis proposal here!

It's also very sad that this person's adviser is willing to shirk her
responsibility and just let him go without a proper education. Part of the
problem with the UK is how funding works encourages this reckless and pretty
selfish behavior on the part of faculty members for their own benefit.

A PhD is supposed to teach you how to do research, pick a big problem, break
it down in several different ways, push the state of the art several times,
and learn how to communicate in reasonable venues. Looking at his thesis and
publication he's done none of the above.

As for the UK vs the US, I have collaborators there and have postdocs from
there. A US PhD is like a UK PhD plus a postdoc. You're basically just halfway
toward being able to do good research by the time you're done a UK PhD so
standards are pretty low, although not this absurdly low. There's a reason why
getting a faculty position in Europe with a European PhD almost requires a US
or Canadian postdoc.

As the parent said part of what the PhD gives you is the access to people that
are smart and capable. Being around them will make you much smarter and more
capable in ways that are intangible but obvious in retrospect. Doing this
remotely defeats the whole purpose. Because of this in the US you would never
get into any reasonable (top 100 or even lower) grad school if you said you
wanted to a part-time PhD.

That being said. A real PhD is worth it. You'll learn a lot. You'll work very
hard for 5-6 years and at the end you'll be far better equipped in any
environment.

~~~
izzym
Typical one-size-fit-all judgement, bigotry, similar to making a statement
like 'All VW cars are polluting'!

> This isn't a UK PhD, at least it's not up to the standard of any rational UK
> PhD I've ever seen.

How do you judge without reading the thesis?, there is no thesis in the
article.

> No one can do a part-time PhD; it's just so much work

You can't generalise, not everyone is the same, some people have the capacity
and capability to put all in. There are part-time PhDs and there are many
people who completed part-time PhDs whilst working full-time. Oxford
University and many others top institutions offer part-time PhDs, it's
possible and doable [https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/graduate/courses/part-
time-a...](https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/graduate/courses/part-time-and-
flexible-study?wssl=1)

> PhD with basically no research with one publication Publications usually
> take a while to get through the review process, many be there are many in
> the pipeline, how do you know?

> Looking at his thesis and publication he's done none of the above.

There is no thesis in the article!, it's very hard to judge without reading
the thesis.

> A US PhD is like a UK PhD plus a postdoc No comment, I'm quite sure this
> debate has taken place in many forums [https://www.quora.com/How-do-you-
> compare-pursuing-a-PhD-in-E...](https://www.quora.com/How-do-you-compare-
> pursuing-a-PhD-in-Europe-vs-a-PhD-in-USA)

And of course if you have to attend classes, it will be difficult doing it
part-time.

> Being around them will make you much smarter and more capable in ways that
> are intangible but obvious in retrospect.

As part time you can still meet those smart people at the university or by
attending conferences.

~~~
mattkrause
I would guesstimate that 75%+ of the "value" of my PhD came from casually
interacting with smart people (classmates, postdocs, profs) working on related
topics.

These same people go to conferences, but they are busy there--they have talks
to see, posters to visit, and friends/collaborators/funders to catch up with.
In contrast, when you're "around", it's possible to muse and mull things over
with the grad student waiting for her turn in the darkroom or the postdoc
brewing coffee. "Hey, did you see this paper?" or "How do we know that <X>,
anyway?"

I'd worry that a part-time student would miss out on a lot of these
opportunities; by definition, they're around only part-time and most of that
time is "business time."

------
reuven
You can do a part-time PhD; I'm living proof of it. But that doesn't mean it's
easy or recommended.

I did it while married with two kids, and a third born in the middle. I
effectively worked on it part time, because I was consulting at night and on
weekends to make ends meet. After my four years of coursework, we returned to
Israel; I flew to Chicago 3-4 times each year (at my own expense) to meet with
my advisor and make some progress.

These were extremely difficult years for me, and for my family. I was working
extremely hard, sleeping very little, and making very slow progress in my
research.

Oh, and my advisor didn't know that I was working during my years on campus;
if he had found out, he would have revoked my funding and/or have me thrown
out of the program.

My wife and children were very supportive in every way, and I appreciate that.
They even agreed for me to go away for the entire summer to write my
dissertation. (Which my advisor didn't even look at until six months later,
but that's another issue.)

I'm glad that the author feels good about doing a part-time PhD, but what I
did to myself and my family isn't something that I wish upon anyone unless
they _really_ want a PhD.

That said, I should note that I'm happy (and extremely proud) to have
finished. By the skin of my teeth, perhaps, but I managed to do it.

~~~
amelius
> You can do a part-time PhD

That completely depends on the subject and on your expectations. A PhD is not
very well-defined in terms of energy you have to invest, nor is it a good
indication of intellectual capacity needed to complete it in a reasonable
amount of time. PhD programs are just too different to say anything meaningful
about these things. Also your supervisor plays an important role, which is
usually another unknown variable.

~~~
mattkrause
It works really well if there's some synergy between your job and PhD. For
example, a friend of mine is working at an R&Dish job while doing a PhD. His
thesis is essentially an excuse to dive more deeply into the problems he's
currently trying to solve during working hours. Everybody wins!

Barring that, I think it's going to be difficult or impossible. My current
(wet) lab would not consider a part-time PhD student. Most of the experiments
we do are time-consuming and can't really be done piecemeal like that.
Theoretical stuff works a bit better, but I think there is a lot to be said
for being "around."

------
gravypod
I know this might be a silly question but what exactly do you do in an
academic research position? How do you choose a topic to look at? What do you
study on this topic and what is the output supposed to look like?

For someone who might eventually want to do a PhD in the space of software, I
don't exactly know what you'd do. I normally just take a problem, and write
software to fix it. How is the process changed when I want a degree from it?

I'm assuming I can't just bring in a flash drive and say "Yea I did some
reading and did some stuff, here is the implementation of my new X for the
Linux kernel. It speeds things up by a factor of BIG_NUMBER."

~~~
light_hue_1
> How is the process changed when I want a degree from it?

When you understand the answer to this question you're well on your way to a
PhD. The PhD is not about implementing something. Although an implementation
is sometimes/often a part of it. The real problem is to read a lot, get a
grasp on what people understand about a topic, think about it, and say
something new and interesting. That might mean coming up with some new
algorithm, or a cool observation that solves a problem, or a theorem, or an
experiment on humans that shows something interesting, etc. Finding good
questions, learning how to ask them in the right way, and how to squeeze out
what's actually doable and important from them, that's the point of the PhD.
When you can do that from beginning to end, you're ready to graduate.
Historically, this was what a PhD thesis was. Your first end-to-end piece of
research.

As for the first few questions. That's why you have a PhD adviser. Someone who
can help you pick your first few questions. Guide you on the path to getting
answers, finding new questions, getting a handle on what's known, etc.

My biggest advice is find a topic you're interested in, read a few papers
about it (google scholar is your friend), find a few people that work on that
topic, read 1 paper from each, and when you apply for grad school in their
department say something meaningful about what they've done (don't suck up, we
know and it doesn't impress anyone) and what you would do instead/in addition.
When people pick grad students they like to know that the student they're
picking is smart, motivated, and knows enough to say something interesting
about their work. It sounds daunting but it's doable. Particularly if you do
summer research while in undergrad or do a good masters thesis. Good luck!

~~~
gravypod
The way you put it, it sounds like you can do what ever you'd like so long as
you come up with something a little extra.

Are there sample "this is what a thesis for a PhD should look like" papers?
Where is the standardization?

~~~
chrisseaton
It needs to be more than 'a little extra'. It needs to advance the state of
the art. It needs to have a new idea in it. It can't just be a better
implementation of something we already know how to do.

There is no standardisation. The level you are assessed against is set by your
examiner.

Don't focus on the thesis or the software - those are just ways to express
your novel idea, which is what is being assessed.

But yes you can do whatever you want, as long as you have a good idea and can
show it works.

~~~
BellsOnSunday
When it comes to being examined there are also the prerequisites to advancing
the state of the art, which include demonstrating you've learned how to do
research and have deep critical knowledge of the field you're working in (so
you know what needs to be done to move it forward).

------
stickydink
I left my PhD position only a couple of months in, to take up a job offer at a
startup half way across the planet. It was one of the toughest decisision I'd
ever made, but I have no regrets. My rewards and experiences that came from
that, have been without a doubt, incredible.

But I do still yearn for academia. A part-time PhD is something that I've
thought about often, but I've found it a little tough to find anything
substantial on how one goes about getting started. It was such a smooth
transition the first time around, I had a fully-funded position lined up
before I finished my Masters.

My educational background was in Physics. My Master's was in computational
physics, but all my software knowledge was self-taught, from a young age.

I would love to research getting into a Computer Science PhD, but I don't know
where to start. Especially given the time since I was in my Masters, 6 years
ago now, and being a different field, is it viable? Realistically, should I be
looking at a part time CS MSc beforehand?

------
trentmb
Barely related-

I've been kind of curious about part time graduate studies- maybe at the
masters level.

I clowned around, partied in college. As a consequence I never made any
lasting relationships with my professors, and had a fairly mediocre academic
record.

I did have a lot of fun in the 'intro to math research' course I got to take.

So I've toyed with the idea of taking a class a semester, maybe as a non-
degree student in an effort to shore up my now rusty mathematical skills and
build rapport with professors whose work I find interesting.

Even if it doesn't pan out, I get to study stuff I like and still have a solid
job.

EDIT- I guess I'm fishing for other people's experiences in part-time post-
bacc studies.

~~~
b_emery
Do it. My university has a path for this sort of thing. You usually have to
pay the same tuition rate, but it's per unit, so it's less than a full time
enrollment. I'm at UCSB, and it's called Extension here. I did this to help my
grad application prior to enrolling. It really helped to a) show that I could
do the work and b) get me excited about it and confirm my desire to enroll.

------
m4dc4pXXX
I did a part-time master's in CS while working full time. I was able to take
one course a term and it was really rewarding. I could dig into the material
for each course without worrying about 2 or 3 other classes - really nice. I
also wrote a thesis rather than just taking credits. It took me a lot longer
(1.5 years start to finish on thesis), but it was immensely rewarding. I
learned so much beyond my thesis + class topics - a lot more than I expected
when I started out. Also helped that my employer paid for the whole thing!

Never thought a part-time PhD was possible (US), but maybe its worth thinking
about.

------
gautamdivgi
I did this too - a part-time PhD with a full-time s/w engg job. So its good to
know there are more crazy folks like me. Essentially I took up my PhD in a
topic that was statistical as opposed to what I was working on distributed
systems/applications.

It greatly helped broaden my horizons professionally. The writing experience
you get doing journal & conference papers is excellent. Your analytical &
critical thinking skills will get an immense boost and you will know how to
critique, publish & communicate well. And when it is all done you will
understand why some call a "worthless academic adventure" is one of the best
things you should have undertaken years ago.

To anyone on the sidelines - do it. Don't think, do it - there will be times
when you think you can't and just have to quit. But have someone around who
can support and kick u back in. I have an awesome wife who pitched for me
every step of the way... Also have someone to provide you with the motivation
to finish. I had an impatient 3 yr old :)

~~~
izzym
It can be done, there are many people out there who did part-time PhDs in
similar situations. Shame to see some claiming it can't be done or impossible!

------
searine
Part time PhD is interesting but probably very challenging.

He seems to have completed it in 5-6 years, which is average for full-time PhD
students, so my question is what got left out? His google scholar lists a
conference abstract, and his thesis. No citations. His github projects have a
total of 1 pull request. Now this isn't a personal attack on the author, just
trying to tally what kind of productivity a "part-time" PhD produces.

If I someone looking to hire a recent PhD. I'd look at what kind of work they
authored (software/publications), and what kind of impact it's had. A PhD
isn't just a line on resume, it's your statement of how useful you can be to
the software/scientific community. If someone claiming a PhD title showed me 6
years of work with no meaningful impact. I'd be skeptical to say the least.

~~~
chrisseaton
> He seems to have completed it in 5-6 years, which is average for full-time
> PhD students, so my question is what got left out?

He did his PhD in the UK, where 3 years is the norm for full-time.

UK PhDs are shorter for a number of reasons.

First we specialise earlier - normally just three related subjects from age 16
- I specialised on computation, discrete maths and physics - and from your
first day at university you will only study your major and no other subjects
such as liberal arts requirements.

Secondly, US students are still doing classes and exams while they're a PhD
student. In the UK you are expected to be researching from the first day of
your PhD and you don't do any classes or exams which take away time from your
research.

Thirdly, US students spend I believe a lot of time doing things like being a
teaching assistant, which have nothing to do with their research. I only did a
couple of hours of teaching during my whole PhD. It seems crazy to me to spend
time doing work like grading undergraduates when you are supposed to be making
perhaps the major research contribution of your life!

Finally, I think there's a culture in the UK that you are released from your
PhD as soon as you can show you can do it. So if you publish three top tier
papers in two years then what else is there to prove?

~~~
argonaut
US CS PhD students only spend on average 2 semesters teaching (at
Stanford/Berkeley/CMU, the requirement is roughly 2 terms of teaching, at MIT
it's 1 term).

------
dvcrn
Not a PhD but is a part-time undergrad possible as well?

I'm a self learned software engineer and very happy with where I am but would
really like to get a degree in math. On top of that I keep running into
immigration / visa issues without a degree and got classified as "not educated
enough" multiple times. I was able to offset the degree with certifications
here in Asia but that doesn't seem to convince everyone.

I come from Germany's 3-class school system and have a total of 10 years of
school experience ("Realschule") + 3 years vocational school on top. Work
experience is at 6 years now. Most universities don't even allow me enroll
because my 3 years vocational school doesn't count as "normal school", that
knocks me down to 10 years of education.

My path to a math degree would be right now:

1\. Go back to school for 2-3 years

2\. Enroll 4 years in university

3\. Think about further studies

I don't mind the 4 years thing or longer part time, but having to put 2-3
years on top just so I am allowed to pay money / enroll seems ridiculous to
me.

Anyone by chance experience with this?

~~~
barry-cotter
No one in the anglophone world will care that you don't have an Abitur. The
UK's Open University has open admission. If you have the £5,000 for a full
time course load for a year they'll let you in.

Assuming three years of vocational school refers to Fachhochschule you would
at the least be admitted straight into most computing degree's second or third
year. Given your work experience you could probably get into some Master's
degrees. Peterep down thread says he got into Oxford's Software Engineering
Master's without a Bachelor's degree. His email is in his profile.

~~~
ldjb
I'm not entirely sure on the details, but I hear that Open University degrees
are not recognised in Germany for the very fact that there are no entry
requirements for bachelor degrees. Of course, this would apply to any
university without entry requirements.

I may be wrong about this (and if anyone here can set the matter straight,
that would be great), but I would strongly suggest finding out more about
recognition if this may pose a problem.

------
lordnacho
I'd love to do this. I think I might be in a position to do so soon, as I'm
setting up some businesses to (cross fingers) generate me some income without
the daily stress of staring at the markets.

I'm interested in doing this in the UK, the south if I have to show up
somewhere. It would be something that requires a lot of coding and contains a
heavy statistical element. A friend of mine got a full time phd where he could
basically sit on his computer all day and crunch numbers. His was in biology,
so I doubt I have the qualifications, but my background is in Engineering (and
economics). I also have considerably more coding experience than he had.

Is there some resource where I can find some likely places to do this?

~~~
ldjb
A lot of universities in the UK offer part-time PhDs. You might like to try
visiting the websites of universities close to you to find out more
information. There are postgraduate fairs around the country from time to
time, which may be a good opportunity to speak to different university
faculties.

The Prospects website allows you to search for PhD courses. Here is a link to
the search results for part-time PhDs in the "computer sciences and IT"
category, but you can adjust the filters to narrow down the selection:
[https://www.prospects.ac.uk/postgraduate-courses-
results?key...](https://www.prospects.ac.uk/postgraduate-courses-
results?keyword=computer%20sciences%20and%20IT&course_hours=16511&qualifications=21368)

------
peteretep
For anyone who wants to do a part-time MSc and can get to Oxford for 10x1 week
periods over 4 years, I can recommend:
[http://softeng.ox.ac.uk/](http://softeng.ox.ac.uk/)

I got admitted without an undergrad, although YMMV.

~~~
sdiq
I saw this recently but wasn't sure whether they will admit me not being a
resident of the UK. Is that possible? Also, like you, I do not have an
undergrad degree but, still, got admitted to another UK based uni.

~~~
peteretep
There were several Americans flew in

~~~
sdiq
Thanks, good to know that.

------
purerandomness
I'm highly interested in how the author managed his time, distractions,
studying, family, and keeping his motivation to continue to do this for this
long amount of time.

Are there any self-management techniques to be learned from this experience?
Is it something you could teach someone else to develop as a trait?

~~~
shioyama
"a family with two children (my 3rd child arrived after I started)"

I'd wager a bet that he has a stay-at-home partner or maybe family filling in
for the time he's spending on his PhD to help take care of the kids. Three
kids + full-time work + all the chores of child-rearing do not leave time for
a PhD.

------
izzym
Very surprising that a few are passing judgement, although there is no thesis
in the article!, how would someone judge without actually reading a thesis?

------
superobserver
It would be more preferable to get (e.g.) 12 degrees in a year and be done
with it. Online schooling that has you take tests and gives you the degrees
would be far and away more rewarding than getting hammered by years of
invested time and a large debt.

Unless you're the kind of personality that enjoys academia, don't bother.

~~~
argonaut
A PhD should not put you in debt (if you don't have university/fellowship/RA
funding you shouldn't be doing a PhD). The only cost is opportunity cost.

------
apatters
Does anybody have any information on completing a computer science
undergraduate degree in this manner? I'd like to do it but I don't know of any
resources that rank the online programs of various schools. Is your physical
presence required at some point?

~~~
ldjb
Universities that offer part-time undergraduate courses have different ways of
delivering them. Some have regular evening or weekend lectures, whereas others
are mostly online.

I'm studying Computing and IT with the UK's Open University. Module texts are
sent through the post or are available online, and there are a mixture of
online and face-to-face tutorials (which are optional but recommended).
Depending on the student's module choice, however, they may be required to
attend exams at an exam centre, or residential school.

I'm not aware of any ranking, but if you are interested in taking a course
that is mostly online, you might want to search for distance learning courses
in your country of residence. Of course, it may also be possible to study a
course offered by a university from another country. The Open University has
students studying online from around the world, for instance.

