
Facebook couldn’t have been British - yangyang
http://cityam.com/news-and-analysis/allister-heath/facebook-couldn%E2%80%99t-have-been-british
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retree
_it is taboo to drop out of universities, which remain poor incubators_

This is definitely true. I'm currently at a top UK university, and there is
very little incentive to start a startup. Whilst a friend a Stanford has
access to an entrepreneur group with a budget of half a million dollars just
for having a good idea, we have business plan writing competitions.

The very idea of dropping out of universities is met with horror, by other
students, staff and relatives. They would rather you just go through uni and
get a job at a nice bank or accounting firm somewhere. Starting a startup as a
student isn't the norm, there seems to be too much friction.

There also appears to be much less of a can-do atmosphere and much more
aversion to risk in the UK for current university students. This isn't to say
there isn't a good startup scene here - but it's mostly hardware/biotech; most
of the other stuff seems started by mid-30s ex Goldman Sachs bankers.

Edit - I've just found this article -
[http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/rorycellanjones/2010...](http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/rorycellanjones/2010/07/uk_tech_is_anyone_listening.html)
from Rory Cellan-Jones of the BBC which is a good read as well

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pmjordan
I doubt it has much to do with the university drop-out rate. In Austria, it's
the norm to drop out of university but my gut feeling is that the UK has more
startups per capita.

That said, I got my degree in the UK (York, in the top 10 at least at that
time) and there was no entrepreneurial angle at all. There was one guy in the
careers office who encouraged you to enter business plan competitions and ran
one or two seminars (which were vague and focused on coming up with an idea,
not practicalities) but you only found out about that if you looked for it. I
only ever contemplated opting out of the standard "get a job" career path
because I stumbled across PG's essays via his "plan for spam". Up to that
point the "get a job" indoctrination was working perfectly. As far as I can
tell from friends, it's similar in Austrian universities (except they don't
even tend to have careers offices).

Honestly, I think the best way Europe could help the startup situation is to
somehow convey the message that the worst that can happen if you fail isn't
really too bad. Also, everyone seems to be scared of the "business angle", so
that could be addressed by running a module or two on _practical_ small-
business bookkeeping, accounting, tax and incorporation basics in sci/eng
degree courses. Because, let's face it, those things are _not actually that
hard_ , at least not in the UK. Rest of EU needs to get rid of their idiotic
capital requirements for setting up limited companies and severe penalties for
bankruptcy. Lower social security/tax rates at low self-employed income levels
would be appreciated, too. (those could easily be financed by killing all
those stupid grants schemes that are so complex no small company could afford
the lawyers required to figure them out)

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retree
It's definitely true that the UK has lots of startups. But I think the problem
is that people at universities, or university staff don't even consider it.
Looking at the two best known (to your average consumer) startups in the UK -
Betfair and Ocado, both were started by people in their mid 30s. I can't think
of many started by people in their early 20s, which I think is a huge
oppurtunity being missed.

There is definitely a stigma of failing. It feels like if your startup fails
in the USA it isn't too big a problem, you just pick yourself up and start
again. In Europe I get the impression that a failed start up reflects poorly
on you - leading to a risk averse culture.

~~~
pmjordan
_But I think the problem is that people at universities, or university staff
don't even consider it._

Universities have historically not been the place for training up
professionals or business people, but pure scholars. The vast majority of
staff at universities are in the latter category to this day, probably less so
in engineering disciplines or medicine. Expecting them to prepare students for
the real world in a job, let alone running a business, is unrealistic. (nobody
even teaches you how to do basic things like salary negotiations, forget about
raising capital)

I'm not sure what the solution is, but making professors run awkward "soft
skills" courses is definitely not it.

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mooism2
On the "universities are poor incubators" claim:

Cambridge is probably the top UK university. Every single Cambridge college is
(legally) a charity. This means it is illegal to conduct business activities
on college premises; in particular, it is illegal to conduct business
activities in your college accommodation.

~~~
retree
It's true, my college tenancy agreement explicitly says _"The student agrees
... not to use the room for any professional trade or business."_

Not only businesses, but any jobs are forbidden at Cambridge as well. If
you're not allowed to work behind a bar for minimum wage, it's sort of implied
that they're hardly going to look kindly upon you running a business are they?

~~~
auxbuss
But I bet you are allowed investments, sit on boards, and draw funds from a
trust. If so, what a horrible throw back to ancient times. Are you sanctioned
to work during vacations?

While creative accountancy can sidestep some of your restrictions -- say, pay
yourself a dividend, take a director's loan -- this hardly solves the
entrepreneurial issue at hand. Unless, of course, Cambridge students are
expected to legitimately subvert the regulations, thereby preparing themselves
for a lifetime of sailing close to the wind :)

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ig1
Refutation - British Y Combinator startups by university:

Cambridge: Immad Ahkund (Heyzap), Jude Gomila (Heyzap), Rahul Vohra
(Rapportive), Martin Kleppman (Rapportive), Sam Stokes (Rapportive), Ian
Hogarth (SongKick), Pete Smith (SongKick), Michelle You (SongKick)

Imperial: Tim Davey (SnapTalent), Sumon Sadhu (SnapTalent), Niall Smart
(Echodio), Nathan Chong (NewsLabs)

Oxford: Peter Nixey (Clickpass), Harjeet Tagger (Auctomatic), Kulveer Taggar
(Auctomatic)

Bristol: Tom Riley (Fabricly)

Kent: Mike Laming (Propable)

(Apologies if I've missed anyone/misspelt any names as I'm writing from
memory)

~~~
Caligula
But they went to America to pursue their startup. Their incorporation is in
America and they live/operate in America.

They left Britain to pursue their startup. So I think your refutation is the
opposite of what you intended it to be.

~~~
ig1
Well I guess there's two issues at play here:

1) Is it due to cultural reasons that Britain isn't producing young tech
entrepreneurs

2) Are British young tech entrepreneurs going abroad to start companies.

I think my argument refutes the first but supports the second point. While
there are young tech entrepreneurs in the UK (Mashable for example was started
by a 19 year old, numerous indy gaming studios are led by 20-somethings) a lot
of the more talented ones who are aiming at global consumer markets are
clearly head abroad.

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devmonk
At first the American side of me read this post title and agreed. It just
didn't seem likely. But after reading the post, I don't think it did a very
good job of describing why Britain hasn't produced more successful startups.

The primary reason that Britain doesn't accel at more, I think, is both
opportunity _and_ size of the population. If Britain were at least the size of
the U.S. with otherwise the same ratio of opportunity to excel vs. the U.S.
counterparts, they should have produced at least one startup-gone-global-
household-name by now.

~~~
zeemonkee
The article mentions the Victorian times - you don't need to go that far back
- Richard Branson, Alan Sugar, Clive Sinclair come to mind, although that was
the 1980s. But why haven't there been any huge new successes in the last
decade or so ?

I can think of a few (over-generalized) reasons:

\- over-emphasis on banking and finance. The City is where the big money was
made, and is disproportionately important to the UK economy (even now) so
that's where the polymaths -our homegrown Zuckerbergs and Brins and Gates -
went to make their fortune.

\- class system. Business and government leadership comes from a very narrow
circle of ex-public school and/or Oxbridge graduates who share a common
disdain for science and technology. Time and again scientists and engineers
have left for the US and elsewhere because they couldn't get funding at home -
businessmen and politicians simply didn't "get" the potential of research.

\- over-centralization. If you think Hacker News is bad with its Silicon
Valley-centric worldview, come to the UK. If it's not happening in London,
it's not happening. London however is a horribly expensive place to live,
pushing up salaries, office costs, etc - not the ideal place for a startup.
Start your business in the "provinces" however and nobody will notice you.

\- bureaucracy. Both UK and EU legislation have increased the amount of
paperwork needed to get started - for example employment legislation. Not sure
how this compares to the US (which varies state to state) but it hasn't
helped.

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alexyoung
Maybe another reason is too many British people think in terms of the
government solving the problem, or starting projects funded by quangos: "what
we need is a startup scene, therefore we need government funding!"

Getting startups in touch with funding sources and getting the word out that
you can fund your ventures without living off baked beans for 18 months might
help encourage more people to take the leap of faith.

~~~
zeemonkee
That's true. With the recent government cutbacks and slashing of quangos that
might (hopefully) change. More than money though would be a better startup
community - or communities - all over the UK, which is up to us, I suppose.

One assumes however that students and recent graduates are living off baked
beans anyway (I suppose that's our equivalent of ramen profitable - Heinz
profitable?)

~~~
pmjordan
_One assumes however that students and recent graduates are living off baked
beans anyway_

Exactly. Based on observation of people's reaction to me being self-employed,
the biggest fears are the bureaucracy and what happens when you fail. Neither
of which are anywhere near the biggest challenges, so diminishing those fears
seems like an easy target.

It would probably also help to get actual startup entrepreneurs to speak at
universities, which by and large are run by people who have never been outside
"the system".

~~~
alexyoung
I'm self-employed too, I didn't get much encouragement from people until I
landed a corporate client.

~~~
pmjordan
My parents until recently still sent me emails with links to "real jobs" I
should apply to. :-/

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adrianscott
I dunno... I'm British and I founded Ryze, a pioneering social network which
was a huge influence on Friendster, which in turn led to MySpace and Facebook.

And I never went to high school.

But then again I never lived in Britain, so maybe the article's hypothesis is
fine, just not the headline... ;)

And there is the example of Bebo also...

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ig1
By that logic Y Combinator's also British because Paul Graham is Welsh...

