
Nanodegree Plus: Get hired within six months of graduating, or tuition refund - ingve
https://www.udacity.com/nanodegree/plus
======
1024core
Reminds me of a scam surrounding recruitment (in armed forces) in India. 100s
of potential recruits come to the recruiting event. So scammers would go
around pitching their services: give us 1000 rupees, and we'll get you in. If
you are not selected, all your money back.

In reality, they did nothing. If the guy got selected, they kept the money; if
he didn't, they gladly refunded it. Easy money.

~~~
rdudekul
For $299/month, Udacity does a lot of work. I took a couple of their courses
(could not complete) and those courses take substantial effort to complete. If
someone is motivated enough to go through their (in my view) rigorous program,
I could see how potential employers would be interested. More over there seems
to be a shortage of solid Android/iOS developers. Solid training with
Udacity's Nanodegree would be a definite plus.

~~~
osoba
Could you name a specific course you found too difficult to complete?

My experience was the exact opposite - most Udacity courses seemed
(disappointingly) lightweight. I remember taking their Object-Oriented
JavaScript course, which is marked on their website with "intermediate
difficulty", and completing it all in an evening.

~~~
rdudekul
It was JavaScript Design Patterns. Its not that the courses are difficult. Its
just that they take time and good amount of effort to complete

------
bruceb
"Udacity will help you find you a job (as defined in the program Terms and
Conditions) at a partner company, land you a paying internship, or secure for
you the opportunity to make money through Udacity’s global mentorship or
freelancing programs. We will achieve this within six months of your
graduation date, or refund your full tuition."

Paying Iinternship or "freelancing programs" is a bit slippery. You freelanced
once that is a job! This being said Udacity should be commended for taking a
step forward and putting money up in a way to back up their service.

~~~
fweespeech
Yeah. It is really saying "One of our partners will take you for _something_ "
without any real guarantee the results are in line with the expectation of the
student.

Then again, Udacity is really trying to be a Software Dev Technical School so
that is par for the course imo.

~~~
johnnyo
Well it does set a minimum

> Further, in your new job Udacity guarantees that your gross income from such
> job will be in excess of your cost of tuition (pre-tax) within a 3 month
> period following job placement

But given you are paying about 3600 for the degree, that comes out to making
minimum wage.

~~~
dsp1234
Looking further at the terms:

"* Graduate has not rejected any job offers."

~~~
bluehawk
Probably to fix a pretty obvious loophole:

* Obtain degree

* Turn down all jobs for 6 months

* Get refunded, then get a job.

~~~
goodJobWalrus
So, you forgo 6 months salary, in order to get $3-4k tuition back. I guess if
you didn't want to work anyways...

~~~
monsieurbanana
Backpacking through the world for 6 months while earning a bit of money? Count
me in.

~~~
1024core
Refund of your own money is not "earning money"...

------
dhawalhs
Here are the four Nanodegrees that are eligible for the Nanodegree+ program:
Android Developer, iOS Developer, Machine Learning Engineer, and Senior Web
Developer.

The name scheme is interesting because it tells you what you will become
rather than what you will learn. The ML and Web Developer Nanodgrees are
pretty new, but we already have reviews for the first two:

[https://www.class-central.com/certificate/ios-developer-
nano...](https://www.class-central.com/certificate/ios-developer-nanodegree--
nd003)

[https://www.class-central.com/certificate/android-
developer-...](https://www.class-central.com/certificate/android-developer-
nanodegree--nd801)

~~~
drpgq
Machine Learning Engineer? Seems on a pretty different level that iOS
Developer or Android, but things are pretty hot right now I guess.

------
j_h_s
I'm really fond of Holberton's tuition scheme, where you pay 25% of your
salary for two years after graduation. In this scheme, everyone is
incentivized to help the student get a high paying job, so the school simply
can't become a degree factory.

~~~
rhc2104
That makes sense for a full-time in-person school that costs a lot of money.

But Udacity's part-time remote program is $299 a month,
[https://www.udacity.com/nanodegrees/nd009](https://www.udacity.com/nanodegrees/nd009)
so charging by percentages is less worthwhile.

~~~
j_h_s
You could charge something like a quarter percent for only a few months as a
placement fee, and keep the standard $200 rate for all classes, with placement
services as an option. While that's not as attractive as a full refund, it
does avoid the issues pointed out in some of the other comments (like counting
a freelance job as employment).

------
peterchon
I graduated from their front-end developer nano degree program last year when
it first launched. It doesn't feel great that none of these new "guarantees"
applies to me.

~~~
madengr
Did it result in a decent job (if that was your goal)?

~~~
peterchon
I was already employed as a FED, but it feels like they keep introducing these
"enticements" and don't really care about the other cohorts.

~~~
abustamam
They actually care about their alumni more than most universities care about
theirs. The university I went to pretty much pretended I didn't exist, except
for the once-a-year mandatory letter that said "Give us $100 to maintain your
status in our alumni network." The benefits I'd get were basically socializing
with other alumni, which I had no interest in doing.

If you graduated already, and therefore stopped paying tuition, it doesn't
make sense for you to expect any additional services. I'm really grateful
that, even a year past graduation, they still review my resumes and other
professional documents. I haven't paid them a penny since I've graduated.

------
gbuk2013
I once went through something similar years ago in London when I was looking
for my very first IT job.

Although I was already quite technical (already running Debian as my OS of
choice, back when it was not as frendly as it is now) I had a totally non-
computer-related degree, so I decided to get some paper certs to get me
started.

I found a recruitment company in London that also did training on the side -
technical and also job application coaching. The deal came with a guarantee:
job within 3 months paying £20K+ (at the time a very reasonable entry salary)
or your money back.

I thought it was a great system - the company got a pool of candidates that
they got to know well over a few months and supervised their training and we
got a lot of help getting that entry job (more difficult at the entry level in
my experience than later as you move higher up).

In the end I got a job before the end of the course and through a different
agency but it was still a useful experience.

------
tryitnow
One complaint: "Nanodegree" is awful branding.

"Nano" implies "really small." So am I too understand that this degree will
get me a really, really, really tiny bit of knowledge about the subject?

I think using the traditional term "certificate" is a better bet. It's also an
easier thing to sell employers since they're already familiar with that
language.

~~~
gt565k
I disagree. To me, certificate sounds like something tiny. I.e. you're a
certified .NET developer.

Traditionally, a degree can be very broad. For example, a CS degree can cover
a lot of classes in different areas of Computer Science in addition to other
non-major classes.

In contrast, a Nanodegree, sounds like a specialized degree to me. The Nano
implies that it is small, but degree has that well known definition to most
people. Together, it brings a sense of being a highly specialized program.

~~~
cgio
focusDegree would sound better imo and address your points.

------
tryitnow
What I like most about this is the incentive it places on Udacity to actually
create a curriculum that employers find attractive.

It's far from perfect and students shouldn't expect miracles, but it's a step
in the right direction.

------
griffinmb
It would be great to know what the curriculum actually is. "Senior Web
Developer" is for "intermediate front-end developers" \-- does that mean it's
front-end focused? Maybe I'm missing the links to the syllabi, but if not I'd
like to see them.

Edit: I feel dumb now. If you scroll down on the detail page, there is more
information. For some reason I thought it was just the footer down there.

------
rahimnathwani
The linked page has a testimonial from someone who received offers from top
tech companies to be a software developer. Although I'm a fan of Udacity (and
completed one of their nanodegrees) I was surprised.

When I clicked through, it turned out that the person had also completed a
'B.S. in Computer Science at UCLA'.

------
imh
What an evil and misleading testimonial. They're trying to imply that he got a
job at google because of the nanodegree, while you find out after the
clickthrough that he simultaneously got a CS degree from UCLA.

~~~
subrat_rout
I agree. I am one of the Nanodegree holder from first cohort in Front End Web
Dev with healthcare background and healthcare related degree. I completed
Nanodegree around 6 months ago. All I can say is I am facing a big hurdle to
get an entry level position.

~~~
abustamam
We were probably in the same cohort. Send me a note and I'll see if I can help
you out.

rasheed [dot] bustamam [at] gmail [dot] com

------
bdcravens
Sounds good, so long as they don't pull what some bootcamps do, which is hire
former students

~~~
saganus
Why?

Is it wrong for boot camps to do that?

I am genuinely asking since I'm not familiar with that. What exactly goes on
and why is it bad?

~~~
bratsche
Two reasons come to mind:

1\. People who just graduated from a 12 week bootcamp are not really practiced
and skilled enough to be mentoring others, imo.

2\. It sounds like a way to inflate the bootcamp's placement rates, which
seems really sketchy and borderline false advertising to me.

My friend is considering this bootcamp around here called DevMountain and was
telling me that the placement rate is supposedly around 90-95% within 3 months
of graduation. This is for a 13-week program that costs over $10,000 I think.
It might be a great program, but it sounds expensive to me and that placement
rate sounds too good to be true. I warned my friend that they've probably
found some way to manipulate that number, like people getting short-term
contracts or something. My friend hears "90% placement within 3 months" and
thinks he's got a 90% chance of getting a good, full-time job within 3 months
of finishing the program (which is probably what the bootcamp wants him to
think).

~~~
Obi_Juan_Kenobi
I don't recall which one, but one of the bootcamps does an independent jobs
report where they hire some firm to track down how a cohort does. The 90-95%
rates could be accurate, but probably for a 6 month period.

------
k__
Did anyone take the "Tech Entrepreneur Nanodegree"?

How was it?

Did it change anything in your life?

------
darklajid
Aaand - ignoring all the other insightful comments: It's one of those...

\---

I am an international student. Why is this restricted to the US?

We hope to expand this program in the near future to other countries. Stay
tuned!

~~~
repsilat
They didn't answer the question, but I'd guess it's because it rests on their
relationship with "partner" organisations. If those companies largely reside
in the US, and if most students can't be expected to get a working visa in the
US, then Udacity could find themselves paying for a lot of students' courses
themselves, rather than having some "employer of last resort."

------
goodJobWalrus
Their title is misleading. You are not guaranteed a job, just a refund of
tuition if you fail to get a job. Still, this is a lot more than your average
university will guarantee you.

~~~
izzydata
Isn't that what a guarantee is? They are giving you a guarantee which in this
case is getting a job (or your money back).

~~~
codexon
guarentee != guarentee or your money back

otherwise why would people bother stating the "or your money back" part?

