
An Unusual Subway Stop in New York - jseliger
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/16/opinion/a-very-unusual-subway-stop-in-new-york.html?mabReward=CTM&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&region=CColumn&module=Recommendation&src=rechp&WT.nav=RecEngine&_r=0
======
yummyfajitas
This article is a bit clueless. The state has more than adequately provided
the MTA with money. The place where the state failed is providing sufficient
oversight to make sure the MTA isn't wasting it.

Paris spent 1.3B euro on the 14 line, which has 9 stations. The MTA spent 2.4B
on a single stop on the 7 line. MTA construction costs drastically exceed
worldwide norms - the MTA spends $1B/kilometer.

[http://www.systra.com/IMG/pdf/metro_meteor_en.pdf](http://www.systra.com/IMG/pdf/metro_meteor_en.pdf)

[https://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/2013/06/03/comp...](https://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/2013/06/03/comparative-
subway-construction-costs-revised/)

Apparently the only project outside NYC to cost more than $1B/KM is London's
Crossrail. Even the Jubilee line extension is only $0.45B/km, and that's
pretty pricey.

[https://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/2011/05/16/us-r...](https://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/2011/05/16/us-
rail-construction-costs/)

tl;dr; Funding is adequate, costs are simply out of control.

~~~
morgante
Why are costs so much higher in NY though?

~~~
shalmanese
Costs are higher throughout the entire US for infrastructure projects. The US
routinely pays an order of magnitude more per mile for similarly scoped
projects compared to countries like Spain.

The root cause appears to be in the unique way projects are bid on in the US,
where details need to be laid out in excruciating detail ahead of time and
then any unplanned changes are cause for cost padding.

~~~
brenschluss
Sincerely curious: What's an alternative to the bidding process you mention?

~~~
rmxt
Historically, most projects in the United States performed by public agencies
have been of the "Design-Bid-Build" variety, but there are a number of other
styles. Most of which involve the owner/agency contracting to _fewer_ entities
who do _more_ of the various types of work that need to be done (design,
constructing, managing, operating, financing etc.). Traditionally, in Design-
Bid-Build the owner contracts with one company to design, they perform the
bidding process, and a separate entity does the building, with financing also
coming from their own operating/capital budget. The alternatives shown here
[1] spice up that process. DBB isn't completely evil, the wiki page does a
good breakdown of it's pros and cons. [2]

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_delivery_method](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_delivery_method)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design%E2%80%93bid%E2%80%93bui...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design%E2%80%93bid%E2%80%93build#Potential_problems_of_design.E2.80.93bid.E2.80.93build)

------
IIAOPSW
10 years to build a rail station! For comparison, 10 years ago the metro
system in Shanghai was barely useful and now it is one of the worlds largest.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Metro#/media/File:SHM...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Metro#/media/File:SHM_evolution_mid.gif)

We don't build like that in America anymore. Partly because it is more
expensive (safety standards and such). Partly because population growth hasn't
demanded it. But those things not withstanding, 10 years and a billion dollars
for a one station extension is unambitious to say the least. And don't even
get me started on the cluster-fudge that is BART / muni / AC / whatever.

~~~
Gravityloss
That is a very impressing thing about China.

------
empressplay
One of the things that makes this station more interesting:

[http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/30/nyregion/trouble-with-
diag...](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/30/nyregion/trouble-with-diagonal-
elevator-held-up-no-7-subway-expansion.html)

------
hownottowrite
A little more background on the funding arrangement:
[http://www.wsj.com/articles/new-subway-station-opens-on-
nycs...](http://www.wsj.com/articles/new-subway-station-opens-on-nycs-far-
west-side-1442171470)

------
kirklove
Got to ride this yesterday, and I've seen a lot of NYC Subway stops. This one
is amazing. Comes at a price though for sure.

