
Nuclear War or Invasion: The False Dichotomy of Hiroshima and Nagasaki - anonymfus
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2020/08/05/nuclear-war-or-invasion-false-dichotomy-hiroshima-and-nagasaki
======
waynecochran
It is interesting how the farther we get from an event the more we want to
change history to fit our narrative. I had the joy of speaking with Lawrence
Johnston (an emeritus prof a U of Idaho at the time) who worked on the
Manhattan Project and who one of the only persons to personally witness both
bombings of Japan. I can assure you, if the Americans had felt there were
other reasonable options, we would have done so.

~~~
rbecker
I suppose we'll have to weigh your assurances against the historical record
of:

> In a 1960 interview, Bard reiterated that "the Japanese were ready for peace
> and had already approached the Russians" about capitulating.

> General Dwight D. Eisenhower, later said that "the Japanese were ready to
> surrender and it wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing."

> "Japan was already defeated and dropping the bomb was completely
> unnecessary," President Eisenhower wrote in 1954.

> The same morning that Nagasaki was destroyed, Prime Minister Kintaro Suzuki
> addressed the Japanese cabinet, declaring that "under the present
> circumstances I have concluded that our only alternative is to accept the
> Potsdam Proclamation and terminate the war." Suzuki did not learn about
> Nagasaki until the afternoon of August 9.

~~~
waynecochran
You do realize that Japan did _not_ surrender after the complete and utter
destruction of Hiroshima.

The allies who surrendered to Japan in Batan and elsewhere were treated as
inhuman -- "surrender" was the ultimate shame -- there was no honor is
surrender. It wasn't until _after_ the bombing of Nagasaki and the news of
Soviet attacks in Manchuria, the complete and destruction of numerous other
Japanese cities, and potential mass starvation that surrender came. They were
more fearful of being occupied by the Soviets, than surrendering to the
Americans.

America has her sins, but she is not the monster the revisionists make her out
to be.

~~~
rbecker
> You do realize that Japan did not surrender after the complete and utter
> destruction of Hiroshima.

Were you hoping I wouldn't check the dates? Hiroshima was bombed on August
6th, Nagasaki on the 9th, and Japan surrendered on the 15th. It took them 6
days after the 2nd bomb (and Soviet declaration of war) to surrender, but the
2nd bomb dropped 3 days after the 1st. Diplomacy takes time. If the US had
dropped 10 nukes in 3 days, would you have said "Japan did _not_ surrender
after the 9th nuke - clearly the 10th was warranted"?

And nothing you wrote disproves that the Soviet declaration of war alone would
have been enough for surrender, while the whole article is full of accounts
indicating unconditional surrender was at hand (let alone _conditional_
surrender). Just saying "nu-uh" won't make the article go away.

Not to mention the bombs could easily have been delayed by a week to check.

~~~
waynecochran
History books of are replete in their description of Japan's attitude towards
surrender. They certainly would have surrendered by the end of the year, but
the casualties for Japan (and China and the US) would have been horrendous.

Concerning the bombing of Hiroshima I'll quote an excerpt from
[https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/japan-
surrenders](https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/japan-surrenders)

    
    
          After the Hiroshima attack, a faction of Japan’s supreme war  council favored acceptance of the Potsdam Declaration, but the majority resisted unconditional surrender. On August 8, Japan’s desperate situation took another turn for the worse when the USSR declared war against Japan. The next day, Soviet forces attacked in Manchuria, rapidly overwhelming Japanese positions there, and a second U.S. atomic bomb was dropped on the Japanese coastal city of Nagasaki.
    

As horrific as the bomb was, it put a decisive end to the war. Everyone,
especially the Japanese, avoided a massive slaughter (and starvation) that was
coming.

