
Why Mark Zuckerberg's Writing Style Erodes Our Trust in Facebook - wwwdonohue
https://slab.com/blog/zuckerberg-writing-trust/
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peter_vukovic
The post is a clever implementation of the clickbait technique with a sole aim
of bringing more startup CEOs and executives to visit Slab’s website and
discover their product in the process. The arguments presented in the article
are weak and show no proof of actual trust erosion as a result of Zuckerberg’s
writing style, only a set of arbitrary conclusions on how certain words and
phrases may appear to some people. This hardly belongs on HN.

~~~
carbocation
Paul Graham has referred to ads like this as "submarines."

[http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html)

~~~
CPLX
No, he didn't.

He's talking about articles in editorial media that were pitched by
publicists.

This is a content marketing article published by the company itself to promote
themselves.

Also nobody on the planet calls stories with marketing value submarines,
except the legions of HN posters compelled to post this link every day or two
for some reason.

~~~
PhasmaFelis
> _Also nobody on the planet calls stories with marketing value submarines,
> except the legions of HN posters compelled to post this link every day or
> two for some reason._

This seems like a silly argument even if the article in question is not
actually a submarine.

------
isoskeles
Did whoever write this read some article where words from the Federal Reserve
were over-analyzed (e.g. "patience") and think that this model also applies to
Zuckerberg's Facebook posts? Because it doesn't. There are almost no real
world ramifications from the words he writes on Facebook except for articles
like this and movement of FB stock price.

I also don't understand the direct contradiction between the ideas between #1
and #2 in this article. How does this get past editing, like I'm supposed to
forget you just told me in #1 that Zuckerberg shifts blame and then in #2
there's a highlighted quote where he accepts blame?

I hate Facebook either way, but Mark Zuckerberg has nothing to do with it.
You're missing the boat if you equate Facebook and Zuckerberg and think that
by attacking Mark Zuckerberg you're somehow fighting against the bad aspects
of Facebook. Sure, Mark Zuckerberg embodies Facebook in many ways. But if he
were to be ousted, I don't care if you brought Gandhi back from the dead and
made him CEO of Facebook, Facebook will still be terrible. The platform and
how people relate to other people on it will still be, net, detrimental to
society.

~~~
pdonis
I agree that enough other people have drunk the Facebook kool-aid by now that
even if Zuckerberg were ousted, Facebook would still pursue basically the same
goals and would still be net detrimental to society. However, Zuckerberg is
the one who made the kool-aid in the first place, so I don't think you can say
he has nothing to do with it.

~~~
isoskeles
I remember the internet before Facebook, you probably do too. Being able to
share your photos, whether it was on Myspace or something that required more
effort like an earlier geocities-hosted site, was a fairly novel thing. People
did feel more "connected" at that time. And I wouldn't say it was an invalid
feeling. People wanted to carve out a piece of the internet and say, "Hey, I'm
over here."

Facebook rode that wave. So I don't think when it first became popular, I
would put Zuckerberg at the center and say that he made the kool-aid.

It was more like hundreds of thousands of people were saying, "We want kool-
aid, we want kool-aid." And Facebook said, sure, we can do that, at least
better than Myspace.

~~~
britch
I think a lot of what's wrong with modern Facebook follows directly from
Zuckerberg's original vision and shortsightedness.

It's possible to imagine a Facebook which stayed small scale, friends of
friends, and served primarily as a photo-sharing/chat platform. Partly because
of business pressure and partly because of Zuckerberg's vision they made this
move to connect everyone. This is something they could do from a technical
perspective, but they did not consider the societal consequences.

They try to play the neutral platform, just giving people a chance to "share
ideas" but they pick what's shown and to who. Even if it's obfuscated by an
algorithm that was trained on user-data, they're still choosing.

I think a lot of this stems from Zuckerberg's vision to "connect the world"
without thinking through what that actually means, and what problems would
come up.

------
iscrewyou
Every time I read or hear something he has to say, I keep thinking to myself:
“You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means”

He’s simply disconnected from the world. Still stuck in 2007 with his goals
for Facebook and how he wants it to change the world. It has changed the
world, but a lot of of the change isn’t pretty.

------
Despegar
Does anyone actually still read Facebook's PR blog posts responding to the
latest crisis? I can't think of a more pointless exercise.

What I actually look forward to reading after every Facebook crisis is the
former Facebook employees on Twitter who rush to their defense every time.

This one made me lol irl:

[https://twitter.com/alexstamos/status/1091099413366403072](https://twitter.com/alexstamos/status/1091099413366403072)

------
knolan
There is no trust to erode.

~~~
ori_b
And yet, people keep giving them data. There's clearly still trust, and the
faster it erodes, the better.

~~~
knolan
I see it being somewhat like McDonalds. You don’t trust them to care about
your health but you like eating there because you don’t value your health all
that either. At least not enough to think it’s doing any harm.

A lot of people shrug at the idea of Facebook and Google vacuuming up all
their data. They don’t think there’s anything about them and their data that’s
all that interesting.

------
CalChris
I like the article but the writer really shouldn't blame the _false dilemma_
on classicists. Rhetoric is a different subject entirely. However, pointing
out that when the reader picks up on the trope they lose faith in the writer,
that was spot on.

------
britch
God it frustrates me when Zuckerberg/Facebook/Twitter attack "gate-keepers"
like they aren't ones.

What do you call determining what appears in a feed? Even if they're using an
algorithm trained on user data, they're still selecting who to highlight and
what matters.

------
yellowapple
Re: #3, what exactly is inherently wrong with changing priorities when
something happens to warrant them changing?

If my primary focus for the year was "get into shape", and then my house burns
down, should my primary focus for the year _not_ shift to "find a new home"?

------
qwagmeyer
Yes, it’s the writing style that’s the problem. Maybe if Mark Zuckerberg
changed his writing style, everything would be okay, and we wouldn’t notice so
many problems.

------
deanjones
Well, it's either his writing style, or all the horrible sh*t his company did.

------
tomphoolery
Sorry this is just an old person riffing on the way people younger than him
talk. I'd downvote if I could, but HN doesn't let me have nice things.

~~~
PhasmaFelis
No regular users get to downvote articles, as far as I'm aware.

------
willart4food
"TRUST" is a scarce currency

------
willart4food
Trust is a scarce currency.

------
darkpuma
Wasn't he getting coached to make himself less awkward in social situations
and to come off less sociopathic? I vaguely remember reading an article a few
years ago about him recognizing this personal shortcoming and seeking help
(good for him!) I hope he got a refund.

~~~
oh_sigh
You might be thinking of Linus Torvalds.

~~~
darkpuma
No no, this was many years ago, not months ago. I've found one of the articles
I was thinking of from 2008:
[https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB120465155439210627](https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB120465155439210627)

Relevant quotes since it's behind the paywall:

> _" To season himself, Mr. Zuckerberg in recent years has reached out to
> high-profile mentors like Mr. McNamee and Don Graham, CEO of the Washington
> Post Co. Last year, Facebook brought in trainers including Bill Clinton's
> former speaking coach to help the CEO improve his speaking style."_

> _" Mr. Zuckerberg sought seasoned help. He brought on Messrs. Yu and
> Palihapitiya. Michael Sheehan, a communications coach who has advised Mr.
> Clinton, came in to teach the CEO how to improve his wooden image, in part
> by coaching him in public speaking."_

I also recall articles about Zuckerberg hiring personality coaches coming out
after _The Social Network_ (2010) was released. There has been some
revisionist history on HN recently that claims Zuckerberg's PR problems only
started in the aftermath of 2016, but he's been in the hot-seat for a bit over
a decade now.

