
Show HN: Kontext – Learn new words by watching movies in a foreign language - m3tr0s
https://kontext.xyz/
======
m3tr0s
Most of you actually don't get it, so I will try to explain it without this
marketing-ish language which I used on the landing page - obviously not very
well.

Consider you already know English well enough to consume your favorite shows
in the language. We all do this to maintain our knowledge, improve our
understanding or pronunciation by listening, or just to hear the show in its
original language.

Imagine you hear words and expressions, even full, shorter sentences which you
don't understand. It doesn't really matter, because you understand the story
as a whole, but you obviously miss an opportunity to learn new words. This is
the moment when you can pick up your phone and press the bookmark icon next to
the subtitle line, to get back to it later. That was scenario (use-case) A.

Or, you might not understand longer sentences, even complete dialogues for a
few seconds. This is when you can use the app to see the translations for that
actual part of the movie. That was scenario (use-case) B.

The app promises that it "helps you understand your show better and allows you
to quickly save expressions you want to remember". It don't want you to learn
a new language. Actually, it assumes that you know the language well enough to
watch a movie in it.

It wants to help you to learn new words. Do you know why you don't learn new
words easily after you reach a specific knowledge level? Because there are
less and less of them, and you don't hear them again and again, and you don't
recall them. This is how you learn new words in school when you start a
foreign language.

So I started to build this app for myself to be able to grab new words out of
kontext (do you see what I did here?), and re-read them later again until I
finally learn them.

~~~
DoreenMichele
I thought most of it made sense. However:

 _Open the translation

If you don't mind the distraction, you can also check the translation of the
current subtitle line while you are watching the movie._

I would shorten that. For starters, take out the intro phrase "if you don't
mind the distraction." It's an unnecessary distraction.

My mother says she learned English by watching TV. She had less of an accent
than most German immigrants I knew growing up.

I think this is a great idea.

~~~
davchana
I learned spoken english by purely watching english movies & tv shows,
initially with subtitles & re-watching again until I hear & understand all
dialogues, & later other movies without subs.

Later, I started working with some British co-workers & socializing also, &
developed a British accent. I am Indian/Punjabi by birth & hav spent most of
my life in India only.

------
kstenerud
It's a cool idea, but unfortunately subtitles are notoriously inaccurate. Even
in normal translations, you lose context and meaning due to cultural and
structural differences in the language whose intents are difficult or even
impossible to preserve. Add in the space and time constraints of subtitles,
and you're basically forced to provide a bad translation of what's actually
happening. This is especially true for poetry, lyrics, and jokes. And that's
of course assuming that the translator is any good at it, or hasn't inserted
politically motivated inaccuracies (most commonly with sexuality for
translations to English). I've seen some HORRIBLY inaccurate subtitles and
dubs, even by professionals ( _cough_ Akira _cough_ ), even to the point where
the "translation" is a complete fabrication in some places.

Movies with subtitles are a nice aide, but to properly learn a language, you
must learn it IN the language, WITH the attached culture.

~~~
bunderbunder
Thoughts on subtitles also in the language you're learning? My sense is that
this helps with my comprehension, but it may also be a crutch.

Unfortunately, they're no help on Netflix, because they apparently farmed
dubbing and subtitles out to two different teams that came up with independent
translations.

~~~
always_good
That's a popular beginner complaint on /r/learnspanish, where I try to help
people, but it's a weird fixation.

Deviating every once in a while from 1:1 dub:sub matchup is not even close to
an obstacle to language learning. In fact, if anything, you hear and read two
different ways to express the same thing at once.

If you depend on 1:1 matchup, I'm not sure you were consuming either dubs nor
subs in a way that's all that productive to language learning. Consider
relaxing and getting used to fuzzier comprehension which is necessary for
transcending to conversational speed+slang.

Also, I recommend graduating to reading books ASAP to avoid languishing in the
limbo of Netflix for language learning.

~~~
bunderbunder
The ones I've tried aren't deviating every once in a while; they're using
completely different translations.

I find that challenging because I've focused on reading for so long that I'm
severely under-developed on my understanding of vernacular, spoken language.
The upshot of that being, if the subtitles and audio differ significantly, my
brain handles it about the same way as if I'm watching with English subtitles:
The ears get disconnected from the brain, and I default to reading without
really listening.

------
catherd
I can't get it to load and the "about" isn't terribly informative, but (I
think) I made a proof of concept of a similar thing. Mine is an offline video
player that shows dual language subtitles. It has modes for skipping non-
dialog sections, repeating the same dialog section, and slowing down playback.

What killed it, though, was a near impossibility of finding a movie that
wasn't edited differently in each language (causing at least one of the audio
track or language tracks to be out of sync or otherwise unmergeable). Maybe
that was just an issue with Mandarin and other languages have better
availability, but for me it ended up just being an endless swamp of comparing
subtitle files to see if they were different, screwing around with time
offsets, and eventually giving up. The player itself worked, albeit with a
terrible UI, I just couldn't find more than a handful (OK, actually only one:
Lost in Thailand) movies + dual sets of matching subtitle tracks to use it
with.

If anybody has a solution to this I'd love to be able to use it again and even
willing to post a cleaned up version if there is interest.

I also had vague thoughts of looking at the youtube API to see if there's a
solution there for videos that already have multiple subtitle languages, but
haven't gotten around to it yet.

~~~
m3tr0s
Most of the information is on the landing page now. Congratulations for your
app, but no, mine is not for that. Please read my comment:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17627899](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17627899)

Also, take a look at this, it is related to your problem:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/8ue04x/le...](https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/8ue04x/learn_new_words_by_watching_movies_in_a_foreign/e1g1ufk/)

If you still have time, please explain what happened exactly, how and where
didn't it load for you?

~~~
catherd
Same as Inanek2. Looks like maybe related to this (Firefox 52.8 on Linux, from
China, via VPN):

Blocked loading mixed active content
“[http://www.opensubtitles.org/en/captcha2/redirect-%7Cen%7Cdo...](http://www.opensubtitles.org/en/captcha2/redirect-%7Cen%7Cdownload%7Csrc-
api%7Cvrf-19bf0c5a%7Cfilead%7C1953178609.gz”\[Learn) More] app.kontext.xyz
Cross-Origin Request Blocked: The Same Origin Policy disallows reading the
remote resource at [https://dl.opensubtitles.org/en/download/src-
api/vrf-19bf0c5...](https://dl.opensubtitles.org/en/download/src-
api/vrf-19bf0c5a/filead/1953178609.gz). (Reason: CORS header ‘Access-Control-
Allow-Origin’ missing). (unknown) Error: XHR error
vendor.c1d3cea4dc48e57eff24.js:333:26904 GET [https://www.google-
analytics.com/collect](https://www.google-analytics.com/collect) [HTTP/2.0 200
OK 355ms]

~~~
m3tr0s
From the error message, it seems that it really didn't load, Inanek2 had
different problem (I think).

That "captcha" part in the request to OpenSubtitles.org is strange, I will ask
them about it. You should try it later, maybe it is some sort of rate-limiting
as a lot of people started using the app after I posted on HN.

------
lnanek2
I guess it's broken? I picked Chinese, then Shutter Island, then at the "Start
the movie now, then press start here." prompt the play button didn't do
anything.

That said, I've found this implementation to be really great:
[https://support.viki.com/hc/en-us/articles/231829048-How-
to-...](https://support.viki.com/hc/en-us/articles/231829048-How-to-use-Learn-
Mode-)

Although not all movies have all the extra subtitle work done to support learn
mode.

~~~
m3tr0s
Have you clicked on the play button? Well... it is not a button. The black one
is the start button, which says start.

------
crypt1d
As someone who learned English purely from Hollywood movies, I can confirm its
a solid way to learn a language. I even picked up the accent to the extent
that I'm frequently asked if I'm American - even though I never lived in an
English-speaking country.

It may not be for everyone though. The only reason why it worked for me is
because I've seen so many US movies and TV shows. I started with subtitles and
gradually moved to watching without them (though I had lots of difficulties
understanding everything, especially in the beginning). I'd argue its a great
way to learn the little language 'quirks', expressions, idioms, etc.

~~~
m3tr0s
Thank you!

How much time did it take?

~~~
crypt1d
Hard to say really, as I didn't exactly start with the intention of learning
the language, I just liked the movies. If I had to guess, I'd say probably a
couple of years to get to a fluent, above-average level.

------
weeksie
Cool app!

Unfortunately, I'm not sure how useful it would be for language learning. I've
been using the Fluent Forever approach and whenever I've dipped back into
"translation" style methods like Duolingo it feels counterproductive, like I'm
tying English words to Spanish words rather than creating a direct connection
between the Spanish word and the object or concept that it represents.

I like the idea of subtitles _in your target language_ while watching a show
or movie in your target language but that's usually available without third
party help.

~~~
lisardo
Care to explain what is Fluent Forever approach and how do I download their
app?

~~~
weeksie
I would probably stick to Anki, I'm a little suss about the app. The website
is [https://fluent-forever.com](https://fluent-forever.com) and the book
outlines a method for using Anki to learn languages. The approach is to start
with pronunciation first, then work on phonics, then vocabulary, then grammar
rather than learning a bunch of canned sentences.

The book mentions moving on to movies and tv shows when you have a decent
grasp of grammar and know the ~800 most common words in your target language.
I have a trip to Spain coming up and my plan is to spend the last two weeks
before I go watching movies and reading/listening to audiobooks in Spanish.
(Listening so I can follow along while reading.)

I'm very happy with my progress so far after having little luck with Rosetta
Stone and Duolingo.

------
azinman2
The UX doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. It’s totally separate from the movie
itself, I have to click any one line to see a translation (which doesn’t mean
I’d want to “save it), clicking a line doesn’t pause the actual movie which I
had to start elsewhere... I’m failing to see how this is an effective language
teaching tool.

I think there’s something there in leveraging movies/tv to teach language, as
well as leveraging the existing subtitles. But it probably would need a deeper
understanding of the languages themselves... for example being able to even
map a given word to the translation versus an entire sentence (and perhaps
being able to expand further).

That said, one of my best friends growing up learned English at age 11 by
watching American TV. She was from Poland, and had no formal teaching. Several
years later not only did she know English fluently, she has a perfect American
accent. It helps that she was young and motivated (and really smart).

~~~
m3tr0s
Please read my comment:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17627899](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17627899)

The app is working differently because it solves a different problem. It
actually need a deeper understanding of the language as you just wrote.

------
levesque
I'd rather just watch content with proper subtitles in the language I'm trying
to learn. Say I'm learning German, I could either watch some original movie in
German with English subtitles, or watch an English movie with German
subtitles. This problem seems already solved.

~~~
bamboo_7
That was my thought too... why not just watch a foreign film? Those even take
place in the country you want to learn about.

~~~
m3tr0s
I wanted to solve a different problem. Please read my comment:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17627899](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17627899)

------
JansjoFromIkea
Cool stuff, I've had similar ideas but can never figure out the best approach
to go about it. Just coming up with an approach that makes some kind of sense
is an achievement in itself!

How do you go about syncing the subtitles? For huge films it's generally not a
bother as the top subtitles will often be from the same source (and therefore
follow similar formatting rules, if nothing else) but you can get pretty wide
deviations when you get down to things with fewer subtitle options available.

~~~
m3tr0s
Thank you! Yes, actually it is the 3rd iteration on the implementation of the
idea.

Handpicked movies are subtitle pairs which were selected carefully to be in
sync (both of them are webrip/webdl/nf). The sync itself is done by simple
intersection, and the user can delay the subtitles to each other by an offset
value (available clicking on the cog icon). It can help fixing the differences
like the first subtitle file includes the intro/theme song, but the second
doesn't. If the cut is totally different, it just won't work. It can be
avoided by following the hints for choosing the subtitles which are available
on the search page.

Also there is an interesting idea which I will consider in the future: it is
possible to search on OpenSubtitles.org by fingerprint. Those who are watching
something download from torrent, could search basically by the movie file
itself, and they will get a list of subtitles which will match perfectly.

------
hajderr
Great work! How does this work? Do you map the subtitle timings?

------
wuyishan
I like the approach - might try it out - even i need to look at two screens at
the same time ;) Maybe consider to have the app in a pop-out window, which I
could overlay on my Netflix browser tab?

One thing I noticed, Query Strings contain the SRT filename, indicating the
content could come from an unofficial, pirated source, such as
"Se7en.1995.REMASTERED.1080p.BluRay.6CH.ShAaNiG.srt" ...

~~~
m3tr0s
Thank you!

The app doesn't work like that. Please read my comment:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17627899](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17627899)

Yes, the subtitle files coming from OpenSubtitles.org, they have unofficial
and official subtitles too. If you use the search in the app, you can select
the subtitles you want.

------
0x4f3759df
I guess you start the movie on Netflix and mute it, and then read the
subtitles taken from 'Open Subtitles DB' The UI using a list is a bit jarring,
I would prefer a smooth scoll, like a very large page scolling down, not a
listbox populating.

"Find more movies in German" button not working as expected, takes you to a
screen where you have to choose your language.

~~~
m3tr0s
No, the app is not for that. Please read my comment:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17627899](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17627899)

Thank you for your honest opinion about the UI. I'm experimenting with it, I
will try out what you advised.

Find more movies in... buttons just continue to the search page, and it has
this one-time native language selector page before that. From the landing page
you can only see the handpicked subtitles, but you can also search for any
movie in the app itself (on the search page).

------
allisterb
It's a pretty cool idea I think and is a great adjunct to traditional language
learning. Maybe there could be an API so that open-source media players would
be able to show the text on the screen together with the video. Hope you make
it.

~~~
m3tr0s
Thank you!

There are other apps for that, it doesn't meant to do that. Please read my
comment:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17627899](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17627899)

------
ramoz
Wasn't able to figure out how it works. I guess you start the subtitles at the
same time as the show/movie? --Not sure how I could possibly learn this way. I
cant read Japanese, so what good is seeing Japanese subtitles?

~~~
m3tr0s
Please read my comment:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17627899](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17627899)

Hope it helps, and maybe you will try it out!

------
ggg9990
I find it hilarious to put on a cheesy American comedy that I’ve seen before
on the TV in a foreign language. I wouldn’t watch it actively but it’s
something nice to have on while I clean up or do dishes.

~~~
m3tr0s
As others commented here, you can even learn a whole new language in a way
like this! But without the cleaning.

------
costein
The thought of building something like this has definitely crossed my mind
while trying to learn Spanish. Looks cool, I will definitely try it out!

~~~
m3tr0s
Thank you! Let me know what do you think after you tested it.

------
baal80spam
I'm getting [https://i.imgur.com/NrcA5v6.png](https://i.imgur.com/NrcA5v6.png)

~~~
m3tr0s
Is JavaScript disabled?

~~~
baal80spam
I had "3rd party scripts" disabled in uBlock. After enabling it, looks OK.

~~~
m3tr0s
Yes, the landing page is not part of the bundled Vue.js app, it loads Vue as a
standalone script from a 3rd party - from a CDN specifically.

------
o_____________o
Cool, I'll try this out later! Would be nice if you could convert the Chinese
characters to Pinyin, which is far easier to learn

~~~
catherd
I have a python script that will convert chinese character .srt files to
pinyin. It's not perfect (sometimes doesn't recognize word boundaries
correctly and puts spaces in the wrong spots). But it's good enough for me to
tolerate watching a movie with the output. Send me an email (in my profile) if
you want it.

