
Renewed demand for the metal cobalt is breathing new life into Cobalt, the town - rbanffy
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-10-31/the-canadian-ghost-town-that-tesla-is-bringing-back-to-life?cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_content=business&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social
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Roritharr
My first reaction to the idea of a mining town on the rise was romantic. The
thought of a community of people that are used to hard manual work and create
people like AvE made it sound so nice to make me want to move there.

Then they talked about the toxic sea next to it, the ground instability, the
poverty stemming from having a single industry propping up the local
economy... not as romantic as it first sounded.

Still, it helped me recognize my craving for a place where I can afford to
have a workshop and some land...

~~~
CoolGuySteve
I grew up in a uranium mining town in northern Ontario. After the cold war
ended and larger deposits were discovered in Africa, the town pretty mostly
shut down and my dad lost his job.

I'd say it gave me a nuanced view of some things despite me being quite
liberal overall.

\- I don't think about "the environment" the way most people seem to. There
are many environments and ecosystems typically cover more area than a single
mine or factory can pollute. Places like Cobalt, the tar sands in Alberta, or
Siberian nuclear test sites are basically uninhabitable without shipping food
and fuel in from afar, so it doesn't bother me that they're ecological
disasters. Even if those places are ruined, it's easy for humans to leave them
alone for a century or more without much inconvenience.

\- Mining practices in the 3rd world are exploitative and dangerous but
there's not much you can do about it specifically. My dad designed machinery
to prevent rock fall, that position is inconceivable in Africa. But the market
for cheap minerals will never go away. Even if Tesla stops buying, other firms
in other countries will. The only way to prevent it is to raise the standard
of living in these African countries so that no one would consider taking a
mining job there in their current form.

~~~
Matt3o12_
> The only way to prevent it is to raise the standard of living in these
> African countries so that no one would consider taking a mining job there in
> their current form.

I just don’t agree with that. There are many ways to improve this situation.
Apple has done a lot to improve their supply chains and the conditions workers
work there. As far as I know, Apple has gotten completely rid of child labor
for their products because of its high standards. If more companies would take
that stance, there would a lot less child labor in total. Although I believe
Apple made a pretty big difference because of its size.

Furthermore, the government should regulat how imported goods and raw
materials should be mined. They should have clear guidelines what is allowed
and what is not for raw materials. There should not be a loophole for the
supply chain. Every company chooses their supply chain and is thus
responsible. If every company suddenly demands that their supply chain will
not employ children and use safer techniques in their mines, the supply chain
will make sure demands are met.

Employing such regulations is not unheard of either. The US government already
is pretty strict about bribery in foreign countries, so they should be able to
place similar regulations. Enforcing such a regulation can be hard but it is
possible. If companies cheat, they will get chaught eventuall and if they are
fined appropriately, it should not be worth the risk.

Even getting right and left wing people to vote for that should be easy. The
right wing can use that regulation to keep the mines in the country and
protect jobs, and the left wing can say it is better for the environment and
humanity this way. The real problem are lobbies, though. There are a lot of
companies which would suffer from that a lot and they are willing to spend a
lot of money on lobbing. Maybe Apple, combined with Tesla and other
environmental responsible companies can make a difference.

Just hoping that the standard in another countries suddenly improves a lot is
not enough. We have no control over that country and many thing can prevent
that. Furthermore, this just shifts the mining to another country and it will
continue there. By applying regulations which set standards how materials can
be mined, including requiring a living wage for that country, Afria has a good
way to raise their overall standard.

~~~
bryanlarsen
Sure but the best way to get government to enact regulations is to have
citizens who want the government to enact such regulations. And the best way
to get citizens to care is to raise their standard of living.

Studies have found that caring seems to start at about a GDP per capita of
$10K or so.

~~~
josinalvo
Would you share those studies?

Seems intuitive that there is a minimum threshold of confort for political
participation

~~~
lotyrin
Both minimum and maximum levels of comfort (bread & circuses).

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sandworm101
>> ...are attracting renewed attention as a buffer to rising political risks
in the Democratic Republic of Congo...

So this economic resurgence is based on African politics? Not a very solid
foundation imho. Canada has plenty of Cobalt. Canada has plenty of everything.
It's a big place. But it isn't a poor and corrupt nation where permits may be
purchased and safety standards disregarded. Its resources won't ever be the
cheap option. One day Congo will get its act together and then Cobalt is back
where it started.

FYI, Cobalt is no ghost town. Western Canada is littered with proper ghost
towns that shut when their local mine or sawmill closed. Cobalt may be sleepy
and poor but nowhere near deserving ghost status.

~~~
giarc
I think companies are realizing that cheap labour and poor regard for safety
are not worth dictators that mess around with your equipment, labour pool and
exports.

I can't speak from experience, but I imagine a company foreseeing a large
demand for a material will gladly pay more for a constant, secure supply
rather than pay less for one that could be halted at the drop of a hat.

I once had a conversation with a guy in oil and gas at a party. I'm not sure
what his job was but he basically said that in most African countries there is
hundreds of millions of dollar of equipment just sitting collecting dust. When
a company leaves, the government demands crazy amounts of (bribe) money to
export the equipment, to the point where the company just walks away from it
and writes it off as a loss.

~~~
sandworm101
>> ... hundreds of millions of dollar of equipment just sitting collecting
dust

Much of that equipment, in a place like Canada, is a liability. It must be
dealt with properly and that costs money, often far more than the equipment is
worth. You cannot just leave stuff in the field. I'd be that many of these
companies are happy to abandon oil equipment rather than transport and dispose
of it properly.

~~~
giarc
The equipment isn't non-functioning. If it were in Canada (or other
industrialized country) it would just be moved to another project. However, as
this person said, the governments see the value in this equipment, come up
with some "fee" for moving the equipment out of the country and the companies
just cut their losses and walk away from it.

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alex_duf
> Bell believes the amount of cobalt being used in electric cars could easily
> double in the next eight to 15 years

that's a bit of an understatement... If it only doubles we're in trouble, I'd
say it's going to go 10 to 20x

~~~
ghostbrainalpha
What's the reason it needs to go up so much?

~~~
alex_duf
In my opinion, electric car production needs to seriously increase in order to
meet our carbon targets.

There's a couple of reasons to that:

\- Some cars like the leaf have Vehicle to Grid technology allowing the car to
essentially become a trading machine, buy when cheap, sell when expensive.
This massively helps the spread of renewable as you can let your car plugged
and make money. Buy when production of solar is big (low price), sell at peak
time.

\- Car batteries are exceeding expectations in terms of lifetimes, which means
even when the car is dead, or if the battery has been upgraded (like it's
possible on the Renault Zoe and BMW i3) you can basically stack the old car
batteries in a container and again, store and trade energy on the grid

So it really goes together with renewable, especially the ones that are less
stable over time like solar or wind. The earlier the productions increases,
the earlier the second market can be created for the batteries.

It's also worth noting that it's apparently cheaper to recycle a battery than
mine the minerals, which leaves hope for large scale battery recycling.

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TuringTest
A very fitting news for Halloween day.

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dehef
49000 the house. SO lucky

~~~
randlet
Not really. Job prospects are likely limited to non-existent, winters are long
and harsh (and dark), education opportunities very limited, very few
entertainment options, the availability and price of fresh food will be poor,
it's a 2 hour drive to the nearest city (North Bay with a population of 50
000), 5+ hours to a "real" city (Ottawa or Toronto). I could go on...

I'm sure some of the residents love their hometown, but there's a reason the
real estate is so cheap. Personally you would probably have to pay me _a lot_
of money to move my family there.

~~~
zip1234
To be fair, the latitude is less than even Paris, France. The winters may be
colder than Paris, but there is more seasonal darkness/lightness change in
Paris than in Cobalt

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dao-
The headline is clickbait. The town has a population of 1,100, so it's not a
ghost town, and the article mentions Tesla exactly once, in what's basically a
side note.

~~~
sctb
Thanks, we've updated it to the article's subtitle.

