
Ask HN: How to form deep friendships later in life? - thepredestrian
About 7 years ago I arrived in Canada from Southeast Asia to pursue a degree in Computer Science. I graduated and landed a decent job right after in the US, and have been working here since.<p>I have made many efforts to go out and meet new people, but unfortunately at this age it gets harder and harder to form deep and meaningful connections or friendships. Everyone already has their own childhood friends, family, support group that they have built themselves around their whole lives and grew up with. To them, I am just another &#x27;colleague&#x27; or &#x27;fellow member of X and Y group&#x27;, and I know our friendships will never go past a certain level.<p>I walk past bars and cafes on Friday nights and I see groups of young adults in merry conversation and laughter. They are most probably friends since childhood &#x2F; high school and I know I will never be a part of a group like that, because it is just too hard to break into a clique that already has formed a common connection amongst themselves, and the &#x27;making friends&#x27; phase is over.<p>How do I overcome this sense of loneliness and dismality?
======
randomsearch
\- Meet people through work. You have to kinda treat this a bit like dating,
and make real effort - when you meet someone you get on with, you'll need to
invite them for coffee etc. Do this sooner rather than later. Go to social
events that are loosely related to your work.

\- Activity groups. Meetup.com, Couchsurfing, Nightclasses. Charities and
volunteering.

\- Become a regular at a bar or a cafe. Go there frequently, even if on your
own to read a paper at the weekend or one evening. Get to know the staff, as
that provides a bridge to knowing other regulars.

\- When you do go out for any reason, be open to talking to people. Get into
the habit of it, and if you encounter good conversations be sure to get the
person's twitter/facebook/phone/email, just look for an excuse to send them
something that you're both interested in. Then if you get a good chat going,
look for an opportunity to meet up.

\- Explore the friendship networks of the friends you already have. When you
go to events with existing friends, make sure you get to know the people they
bring along. There's a much higher chance of liking a friend-of-a-friend
rather than a random stranger.

\- Send social signals about the kind of person you are. e.g. wearing a SpaceX
T-Shirt will definitely attract other space geeks for chat in random
bars/cafes.

\- More philosophically: remember that whilst you might not meet good friends
if you go to the cafe this Saturday, you certainly won't meet them if you
don't socialise at all. And it takes time - for every night or day you
socialise, you probably won't meet anyone interesting about 80% of the time.

~~~
something123
To the first point, I think this might be controversial... but try to avoid
people you work with directly. It seems like it's better at first glance - b/c
you interact with them more - but the reality is there are whole layers of
professionalism and competing interests between you and them which actually
kinda preclude you from building a system of mutual trust.

Maybe "trust" isn't quite the right word, but I'm struggling to find a better
one. The difference between an acquaintance and a friend is that you can
implicitly know they will help you and that you will help them. This involves
being willing to do thing while expecting nothing in return. In a work setting
that usually leads to bitterness

But that's just like my opinion man...

~~~
TrevorJ
It's pretty situation dependant. Mostly depends on the corporate structure,
culture and your positions relative to each other. I've been blessed to work
at small companies where most of the people I rub shoulders with aren't in the
same professional 'track' as me, so there's no real reason for anyone to use a
friendship to jockey for position or something.

------
darkr
Drink.

Alcohol (and possibly other recreational drugs) binds and cements friendships.
After a few drinks, people are more open to talking about themselves in a more
honest way and tend to reveal more of the person that they really are, rather
than the person they present to the world in normal, sober life; as the old
phrase 'In vino veritas' attests.

Note that I'm not advocating or encouraging alcoholism here; I'm talking about
two or three sessions a week with a select few people that you want to foster
a deeper relationship with. Also, friendships (as opposed to drinking buddies)
are based on more than just alcohol. Friendships are ultimately about trust.

------
alashley
I think the best way to meet new people when you feel like an outsider is to
find other outsiders. By that I mean people who are also trying to fit in and
meet make connections. Find things that you like doing that are welcoming to
people who may not necessarily be in a group/family etc.

When it comes to making friends you also have to decide what types of
friendships/relationships you want. Some people need only one or two close
friends or a partner, and outside of their other hobbies, they are fulfilled.
On the other hand, others prefer to have large numbers of acquaintances and be
a part of a few social circles. There's overlap between the two types, but
knowing what you want from your relationships will help you position yourself
better to find what it is you want.

I'm 31 now, and I think there is always the possibility of meeting new people.
Things happen in life, and people's situations and perspective's change. The
friends that suit us at one stage of life may not suit us at another stage of
life, so naturally we seek out other people. A partner that continually
decides to grow and change with you is the exception to this, but we're always
moving from stage to stage.

------
stdbrouw
Friendships form when you repeatedly interact with the same person. This is
not likely to happen at a random bar, but it most definitely can happen in a
cooking class, when volunteering, playing music with people in a band,
routinely getting together every Thursday night with others in your local
makerspace and so on. Especially if you have to actually work together:
perhaps offer your help to a local cause you support, perhaps a CoderDojo?

Also, FWIW, very few adults still know their childhood and high school friends
and most people gradually lose the friends they make in college. It's just
what happens, and while it will be harder for you to form new friendships, we
all have to work at it. I don't know anybody who'd say "alright, I now have
all the friends I desire, I hereby declare a ban on new friendships."

~~~
thepredestrian
Maybe not an explicit 'I hereby declare a ban on all friendships', but in my
experience, I find it hard to draw close to someone simply by virtue of the
fact that we did not form our friendship early in life. No matter how much I
hang out with someone, his childhood friends whom he grew up with will always
take 'precedence' \- I will never be that 'close friend who people can be
comfortable sharing their personal lives with'.

------
mikekchar
Come to Japan and hang out with me? :-) It's super tough making friends in new
cultures and I'm working remotely so I don't meet anyone at work either.

I think the key is that deep friendships take a long time to build. Also,
because your personality is already mostly formed, it is hard to meet people
that you fit with. When you are very young, it's easy to change yourself to
fit the group of people you are with.

My biggest advice is not to rush it. Take every opportunity to spend time with
other people, but if you don't "click", don't try to force it. When I first
came to Japan I spent a lot of time with people who spoke English. It was
something we had in common. In the end it was the only thing we had in common.
I had some pretty bad experiences because I tried to hang on to friendships
that really weren't good for me or the other person.

As others have mentioned, hobbies are a good way to go. Either find groups to
do your hobbies with, or find some new hobbies that will help you meet new
people.

One thing I have done in the past year (since I work from home, and often at
night) is to wander around my neighbourhood and chat with the retired people
where I live. They are lonely too :-).

~~~
dmak
I'm in Japan too! Are you based in Tokyo?

~~~
mikekchar
I'm actually in Shizuoka (in Makinohara). But I come to Tokyo occasionally.
Feel free to give me a shout. My profile name is the same as my gmail account
;-)

------
pja
Friendships are formed most easily when people work together over a period of
time on a shared mission.

Find something that you want to do & go do it with other like-minded people.
Talk to them about more than just the thing you are doing together, put the
effort into getting to know them. Eventually some of them will become friends.

This is why you hear all the advice to 'join a club', 'join a sports team',
'go to church', 'volunteer somewhere' etc etc. But just joining up isn’t
enough - you still have to put the effort in to make those personal
connections.

It’s a long, slow process: we don’t realise how long it takes when we’re young
because the experiences of youth (school, college) automatically create the
conditions in which friendships can grow and flourish. Once we’re adults,
those conditions no longer automatically happen & we have to put the effort in
to making them happen ourselves.

In the meantime, actually doing something that you believe is worthwhile
alongside other people is a great salve for loneliness, even if they aren’t
'friends' at that point in time.

------
natenunez
Everyone struggles with this at some point, so don't worry.

\- People rightfully prefer to be around _interesting_ people. Some people are
intrinsically interesting, but everyone can convey "interesting" by being
genuinely _interested_ in some aspect of the other person's life. Sometimes
this can lead to getting invited to a future event, like an album release
party because of a shared DJing interest for example, especially if the
interest is niche or rare.

\- Pick a friend from work or elsewhere that you'd like to get to know better.
Take them out to lunch or coffee. Do the same next week and gradually
strengthen your current network. Be sociable, and don't be afraid to have
(appropriately) personal conversations or to ask friends for help or advice on
something, even if you don't think you need it. They might have excellent
advice or know someone who would be able to give you excellent advice.

\- Do things on your own. Decide that you're going to a
concert|club|museum|movie|<your scene> on Saturday, and during the days
leading up to whatever it is you've decided to do, text friends about it. Say
something along the lines of, "Hey, we're going to see so and so at such and
such. Let me know if you're interested!" If no one can make it, you'll still
have fun if you picked the right place, and there's a fair chance at least one
person might be able to join.

\- Consciously shape positive, confident thinking. Figure out what you like
about yourself that you can be confident about! Nothing good can come from
beliefs like "I know our friendships will never go past a certain level" and
"the 'making friends' phase is over".

------
acqq
If you work, for example, 60 hours a week somewhere, at worst sitting in front
of a computer, and on a rare times of freedom you ask hourself that question,
it's probably not going to work.

You probably have to change the priorities in your life: work as the support
not as the primary meaning of life. That also means actively investing time (a
lot) in non-work activities. That's what's hard to do, since we acquire the
habbits through the decades. Even worse, whichever company you work for will
probably not like that the time of your physical presence decreases.

It's possible. But you'll have to actively pursue it and change.

------
TimJYoung
I know that you probably want to maintain your privacy, but you just missed a
good opportunity here to make friends via HN. You should say what state/city
you're in, and you might be surprised at how welcoming people can be.

I was in a slightly similar situation in the late 90's when we moved from
Florida to western NY. My wife was from this area, but I didn't know anyone. I
made a few neighbor/friends, but it was tough because my wife hadn't been back
home for many years and we had our own small business (no work acquaintances).
I ended up learning to play ice hockey and joined a local group of guys that
play pick-up every Sunday morning (we go for coffee afterwards and discuss
whatever for a couple of hours). Long story short: I've known them for over a
decade and they're now all like brothers to me.

It's tough to join groups when you don't know anyone. But, don't sell yourself
short. Many people find it interesting that I've lived over a decade in 3
different US states, so you're practically Christopher Columbus in comparison.
Oftentimes the things that we find the most boring about ourselves are exactly
that which makes us the most interesting to others.

Good luck !

------
jotux
I read this a while ago which sums up the problem:
[http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/fashion/the-challenge-
of-m...](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/fashion/the-challenge-of-making-
friends-as-an-adult.html)

The most important thing I noted:

>As external conditions change, it becomes tougher to meet the three
conditions that sociologists since the 1950s have considered crucial to making
close friends: _proximity; repeated, unplanned interactions; and a setting
that encourages people to let their guard down and confide in each other_

------
nikanj
After two years of collecting acquaintances in Vancouver, I decided to start
volunteering at the same place every week. I now have people who call me if I
don't show up at a party!

Prolonged exposure really is the key to friendship, and for remote workers
finding excuses to meet the same people repeatedly is a must.

------
osullivj
I suspect it's very difficult. Later in life most people have coupled up and
had a family, and that's where all their emotional investment goes. Before
coupling and family, in late teens and twenty something adulthood, singletons
have the bandwidth for the kind of deep friendship you describe. I know I did.
So I think your ultimate solution to the problem of loneliness is the same as
that of most other adults - a romantic life partner. In the mean time, I'm
going to make a deeply unfashionable suggestion: what about joining a 'church'
group? Since you're from SE Asia Christianity may not be the right tradition
for you. Perhaps a Buddhist or Muslim congregation may be more appropriate. A
faith community may well be the way to find the automatic acceptance you need.

~~~
methodover
I don't know much about Buddhism, but your suggestion about joining a
Christian or Muslim church is likely to backfire. If you're joining out of
purely a desire for social connection, you may find some difficulty if you
discover the philosophical requirements are too much for you to bear.

In other words, you might make friends, then realize you're not on board with
the theology, then end up with a very rough break up. This happened to me in
college at least. Led to the worst time of my life.

------
rkroondotnet
The most important insights I have to offer is this: Ask for help. Offer it as
well, but you _must_ ask for it. Do you want to be friends with invincible
people who never need your assistance? Probably not if you are anything like
me. Giving to other people makes us like them more, and this goes both ways.
This is the Benjamin Franklin effect[1]

You have called out a desire to have more meaningful relationships, so I am
not going to focus on meeting people, though the more people you meet the more
you will find people with things in common.

Instead think about what makes deep connections? Shared experiences. Fellow
feeling. Giving and accepting affection.

I am Australian and I am lucky enough to have moved to New York for work. I
met some friends through Australian connections but the deepest connections I
have made are through a random conversation at a networking event that led to
some drinks, and then to an introduction to a group of like minded poets,
artists and technologists.

But even then I felt on the outside.

The thing that changed that has been going to them for help with things in my
life (support as I struggled with relationship trouble, homesickness, stress
from work) as well as spending time in their company individually and as a
group in both casual and more intense settings (camping). Part of the help I
asked for I guess was their acceptance and approval of some poetry I was
writing, which I performed for them. I guess that my thesis is shallow
experiences make for shallow friendships and deep experiences (which by their
nature require you to have your guard down) make deep friendships.

"Breaking into a clique" is a bad paradigm I think, you don't want to break
in, you want to be brought in.

The only other thing I would say is seek people who are also seeking. They
will be the ones who have arrived from elsewhere, the ones who are perhaps on
the edges of the society that you are in. They want what you want.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Franklin_effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Franklin_effect)

------
Nomentatus
The science, interestingly, says join a choir.
[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3292784/Why-
singing-...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3292784/Why-singing-fast-
way-friendship-Chemicals-released-brain-helps-people-bond-quickly-group-
activities.html)

------
gloves
I wouldn't have any friends if it wasn't for football (Soccer). I am painfully
shy, but through this shared team activity I've gained many people I know. So
the first advice is hobbies.

The second piece of advice is if you are anything like me, it's not
necessarily a group of friends you are looking for - it's one or two deep
friendships. Concentrate on a couple of key relationships and maybe more will
come through that!

~~~
richev
Exactly what I was going to say! I scuba dive, and whenever I've moved to a
new city the first thing I do is meet up with the local scuba diving club(s).
A sports/activity/social club is a great way to meet like-minded people, but
who are from diverse backgrounds and are of various ages.

------
teekert
Hackerspaces, (Team) Sports clubs, Join a band/music societies. I think it is
easiest when you find a place where people gather that share your passions.
How pleasant are people that become enthusiastic when you tell them about
yourself? Building Friendships is really building, you won't pick them up
somewhere so you need repeated interaction.

I have childhood friends, they feel little enthusiasm when I tell them about
the 434 MHz transmitter I use on a Raspberry Pi to switch my lights. The never
even booted Linux. I feel very alive when among people with my interests: Open
source software, hardware tinkering. My employer (a worker assignment company
(is that English?)) facilitates this, I highly enjoy it. I think I could build
some friendships there, but I don't need it at the moment (young kid at home).
That said, I sometimes feel I should drop some old friends in favor of new
ones... Maybe later ;)

------
breakbot
People in the US have to move fairly often for graduate school, jobs, etc.
While some subset of the groups you're seeing are childhood friends, a large
number of the people you're seeing have probably not been friends for all that
long in the lifetime scheme of things!

Creating new friendships is difficult and quite similar to dating. It sounds
like you're already part of a few groups, that's great! A good next step would
be to approach interesting people w/in that group on an individual level and
see if you have friend chemistry. This blog has a lot of great advice for the
type of person most likely to end up on HN.
[http://captainawkward.com/2011/12/19/question-153-how-do-
i-m...](http://captainawkward.com/2011/12/19/question-153-how-do-i-make-and-
keep-friends/)

Best of luck

------
cableshaft
I don't know about deep friendships, as I really don't have the time to
maintain all my friendships anymore, but I've become friends with quite a few
people by just picking a few groups on Meetup.com and keep showing up to
meetups, do a little chit chat here and there, not a lot, but a little.

Eventually people started recognizing me as a regular and I got to know people
well enough that they started being friendly to me and asking me to do things
outside of meetups.

It also helped that I'm generally a friendly person, albeit somewhat quiet.

So I just made a consistent effort to keep going to these meetups for a period
of two years, and I now know more people than I can keep track of, and made
several pretty close friends out of it.

------
jakobov
Most of the comments here are about how to make friendships, not how to make
"deep friendships".

I have found the best way to work on a mission together. Go out to town
looking for a nice girl(or guy) to date. Work on some project together. Go on
a traveling adventure.

~~~
thepredestrian
Where exactly do you find people to do such stuff? Everyone is busy with their
own work and lives

------
baby
1\. go out there, activities, meetup.com, volunteering... 2\. when you meet
people, try to see them again: ask them out, organize something... 3\. be a
nice/fun guy to be around

The weird thing is that most advice you will find in seduction apply in
looking for friends

------
elorant
Hobbies man. What you lack in childhood friends you can earn through
activities pals. At least half of my friends I met them at some activity or
hobby. People use to bond when they share a common interest. Take some artisan
classes, cooking sessions, art tours, or simply enlist yourself in an amateur
sports club. There are also a gazillion of adventure clubs, from hiking to
mountaineering to the very extremes, targeted to all ages and physical
condition. And even if you’re strictly a geek and you find none of the above
attractive you could try joining a pen and paper old fashioned D&D club.

~~~
br3w5
And if a geek, there are also maker groups and tech meetups, in fact meetups
of any kind

------
dgudkov
My advice might sound unusual, but ... consider moving to another (smaller)
city. I moved to Canada a few years ago and lived in Montreal and Toronto
since then. Toronto is ridiculously hard for socializing. Ridiculously. People
(especially below 40) are distant, reserved, sometimes passively aggressive
(esp. girls) and even rude. At the same time my experience with Montreal was
totally opposite and I made a few good connections in Montreal. I haven't
lived in Ottawa but my impression from travels across Canada is that people
are much nicer everywhere outside of Toronto.

------
wallzz
I'm in the same situation, I came to France recently after I graduated from
Algeria to work in some IT company, and I find it really hard to make friends.
specially in France where people doesn't really welcome foreigners, due to
many reasons, the events of Paris will make it even harder, but sometime I
wonder if its me who is not sociable or the people around me who are less
interested in making new connections.

------
elbows
There's lots of good advice here on meeting people. But in my experience the
hard part has been moving from acquaintance or casual friend to good friend.
It was always easy to meet people through hobbies, but those relationships
tended to end up focused exclusively on the shared activity -- I'm not very
outgoing so I wouldn't really talk about anything else with those people, or
spend time with them outside that activity.

But a couple years ago I joined a very close-knit martial arts group and have
finally made some good friends that way. I think the big difference is that
this group does public demos and attends competitions together. That often
means spending most of a weekend together, including some less-structured time
that encourages more casual conversation. Competitions can also be very
intense experiences, and supporting each other through that helps to form
stronger bonds.

As it turns out, the last time I made a lot of close friends it was through my
college fencing club, which had a lot of the same characteristics.

I guess that doesn't help much unless you're interested in martial arts or
other competitive activities. But it worked for me.

------
eimai134
Is there anything you are really passionate about? Politics, religion, a TV
show, genre of literature, charity, etc.?

I've found that it's easier to form faster relationships by being in a select
"in-group" of people who are united around a cause. The downside to that is
that if you change your views or become less passionate, the people may tend
to isolate from you. Same thing for when you have friends from work. However,
you can try to turn these more superficial friendships into more meaningful
ones by talking about people's kids, dating life, childhood, etc. Once you
talk about things that are more intimate, people will view you as a more
intimate friend than you actually are. And remember you have to "give to get"
\- so talk about yourself and share details that push the boundary of your
intimacy level (not in a creepy way). That will also make people feel that you
have a closer relationship than you do and they will view you as a closer
friend.

And read "How to Win Friends and Influence People" for tips on talking to
people more when you are with them.

------
hunvreus
I was an army brat, moving to a new place every couple years (at least). Later
in life, I started moving in parallel of my family for my studies. I moved to
China right after I graduated and have been traveling more than I'd like ever
since: I actually spent the past 3 or so years living full time on Airbnb or
short term leases between Shanghai, SF, Berlin, DC and NYC.

And I still meet people.

I do have people regularly becoming good friends. Not that many, but then I've
always preferred small circles.

You could very well engineer your way through it honestly, but you must
realize that, like sales or marketing, this mostly involves dealing with
people. And people are tricky.

Code will give you an instantaneous (or close enough) feedback; it compiles
and crashes, or fails test/QA. You get that in seconds, hours, maybe days or
weeks.

With sales, you throw yourself out there and start seeing results down the
line, weeks if you're very lucky, but most likely months after you kicked
things off. And before it yields any results, you have to be consistent in
your effort to reach out and maintain the relationship with your prospective
clients.

You want friends. You really really want to? Well then time to start
organizing dinners with the ones you know already, or throwing a casual party
at your place next weekend. Propose a drink after work once in a while or plan
activities that others can tag along with. Encourage them to invite their
friends as well, and slowly, but surely, you'll get invited back and
introduced to new folks.

Overall, be upbeat and open minded.

But again, and that's the real tricky part, you can't just "try real hard for
2 weeks" and then give up. You'll have to be consistent and resolute for a
while before you get anywhere. Like all good things in life, it takes time.

------
fab13n
As an expat, it's harder than in a country where you master unspoken social
rules. I know this from experience.

I believe your best bet is to meet other people lost in translation, and
especially expats. Ideally not all from your native country: often, such
circles (people from country X trying to make themselves an enjoyable life in
country Y) tend to encourage their members to bitch on country Y, and that's
not the path to happiness.

Internet should help you find people. If you have hobbies, it helps having a
common ground to build upon.

About kids, lovers and family: it's quite difficult to share a social life
between single people, engaged people and people with kids. If the bond
preexists a divergence of lifestyles, it can survive, but each of these
lifestyles come with hard-to-reconcile constraints.

Finally, if you can pass the IQ test, Mensa is a nice community of too-smart-
for-their-own-good people, looking for meaningful and intellectually engaging
bonds.

------
ribs
Go to Burning Man, or a regional event. It's the canonical way. You can make
some serious friendships there.

------
pmiller2
Upvoting this, because I wish I knew.

------
dimitar
I think it is important to understand that friendships usually get built up
slowly. However you don't need patience you need to enjoy the process, so
there is nothing to endure.

My advice is to try to enjoy your shallow relationships with colleagues and
acquaintances. Don't underestimate the rituals of greeting people and
participating in small talk.

Relax, listen and share a little-bit of your life ("Traffic is crap, I really
wish there was a subway here").

Don't try too hard to turn them into big friendships, end the conversation
when it becomes awkward with a "nice talking to you". Try to show up to events
or invite people.

Everything else will come in time, especially if you enjoy yourself.

------
aaron695
> Everyone already has their own childhood friends, family, support group that
> they have built themselves around their whole lives and grew up with. To
> them, I am just another 'colleague' or 'fellow member of X and Y group', and
> I know our friendships will never go past a certain level.

I think you are misinterpreting the local culture.

If they are in their 20's then their friendship networks are still quite young
and are being created, perhaps you are not understanding your value and
potential to the group.

Deep friendships though are just about time and random events. That's why it's
good to have diverse acquaintances -> friendships -> deep friendships.

------
vijayr
I am also in the same boat.

One thing that worked for me (unintentionally) is volunteering - I met some
great people, even formed a handful of friendships.

Another interesting habit (again unintentionally) that worked for me is
talking to old people. I enjoy talking to them as they have lots of stories to
tell and wisdom to share. Some of the best conversations I've had are with
older folks (60's and above).

It is hard though, once we are in our 30's

Are there any apps that we can use to meet people other than meetup.com and
that don't rely on Facebook?

------
digitalengineer
New people find each other every day. They usually form around a certain
common ground or interest, be it religious, Buddhist (1) or even Freemasons if
religion is not your thing (2). Good luck.

(1) [http://www.buddhisttemple.ca](http://www.buddhisttemple.ca) (2)
[http://www.grandlodge.on.ca](http://www.grandlodge.on.ca)

(Edit: deleted 'this will probably get down-voted part of comment)

~~~
JonnieCache
Just so you know you, are being downvoted because you said "this will be
downvoted," which is frowned upon. This community is actually quite
sympathetic to buddhist ideas.

~~~
digitalengineer
Why thank you, I wasn't aware of that. I'll adjust my comment.

------
sreyaNotfilc
A lot of questions like this (how to get dates, rise up the ladder, find
friends, etc.) have the same answer (well essentially). All you got to do is -

1\. Get out there 2\. Be yourself

I wrote a whole essay a minute ago, but really it could be a whole course.
Like the theme of YCombinator with startups, do things that don't scale.

Find a purpose that you can bring to the table. Can you code well, play a
sport, sing, draw? If you have a skill or a hobby then pursue that. I find
friends for every activity I do. Its not that I'm trying, but people are
everywhere doing everything.

Those people you find in bars aren't always friends since forever either. Life
experience tends to make people more emphatic towards each other, right? We
all have gone through schools, jobs, and relationships. Had ups and downs.
Sometimes its just nice to sit down with anyone who's listening to
talk/rant/laugh about those moments.

I'm 31 and work 1hr and a half from home. My house is in a town 2 hours from
where I grew up. I knew no one when I arrived but now know plenty of people.
And not just in my town, but all over. Some of my favorite people I have met
the past couple of years. I tend to see them only once or twice a year. When
we do meet up, we can spend all night talking as if we grew up with each
other.

If you're open to be a little transparent and also are interested in hearing
other people's stories you'll do fine. You'll find it get much easier the more
you allow yourself to chill out.

Try this - If you're really having problems meeting folks try the following.
1\. Find any gathering where people would be active in your favorite hobby 2\.
Give yourself only 10 minutes (you can stay the entire night, but 10 minutes
from when you arrive to when you leave is enough) 3\. Listen in on a
conversation (or join the activity for a session) and add a couple of
knowledge here and there 4\. Leave

What have you learned? You learned how to find people! You may also have found
a couple of people who you ended up hanging out with for the duration of the
10 minutes. You might have even stayed the entire night having fun. You may
even have had a few FB invites coming your way.

Remember, most people are usually game for new experiences. You are that new
experience. Get out there and have some fun!

------
ilitirit
> How do I overcome this sense of loneliness and dismality?

You are actually asking several different questions. But I suspect if you can
overcome this one, you'll find that you won't really yearn for deep
friendships as much.

There are several things you should probably ask yourself:

\- Are upset that you are alone, or are that you are lonely? Remember, there's
two are not necessarily the same.

\- What is making you feel dismal about life, exactly?

\- What is your definition of a "deep" friendship?

~~~
thepredestrian
Maybe I will expand a little bit more on my original post.

A colleague of mind left a little earlier before work ended because he had an
appointment with some of his highschool friends. From what he told us they
don't live in the same area any more but make it a point to meet up once a
month.

After work I made a detour to get some stuff, and I happened to walk past the
cafe where said colleague was hanging out with his friends. I was walking
opposite the street but could see them through the glass windows laughing and
having a good time, and in that moment I felt a visceral pang of emptiness /
loneliness.

I am unable to forge a deep level of friendship with people that I meet in
Meetup groups - simply because they already have their own cliques and social
circle. Even if they do form a new one, it will never be as close-knit as the
ones they have formed throughout highschool simply by virtue of the fact that
one has been ongoing for a longer time.

If you can visualize it like a spider web, where you are in the centre and the
'webs' that branch out are your friends - the more friends you make and the
stronger connections you form (usually happens throughout high school and
college) - the larger your spider web grows exponentially. The closer a person
is to you, the nearer he is to the 'centre' of the web. Think of it this way -
the larger the spider web people have, the harder it is for someone to get as
close to the centre of the net as possible. At this stage of life - almost
everyone already has established their 'spider web'.

I know this because I actually do have such a clique since highschool. We
still maintain contact over Whatsapp but since I am the only one that is
overseas, I am unable to meet up with them frequently. And within that circle
I do have a couple of close friends who I message on a weekly basis, and who I
would call lifelong buddies. No way will the new friends I make over
volunteering/hobbies/meetup groups ever become closer to me than these
lifelong buddies I have - so how how can I expect the same for them?

~~~
rtl49
I'm sorry to hear this is such a painful experience for you. Perhaps some of
us are just so accustomed to moving around that the depth of friendship you
seek is a foreign concept. Some of this is just an aspect of modern society --
we lack strong ties to our place of birth and we don't all share similar
values.

The only concrete advice I can provide is to try finding a romantic partner.
You would be less lonely, any sexual frustration you're experiencing would be
relieved, and you may develop friendships through your significant other. In
many cases, finding such a partner would be easier than happening upon a
person who is looking for the kind of friendship you seek. Dating is common,
setting out to develop friendships not so much.

------
Baobei
Hi. You seem nice. I'm nomadic but don't have a problem making friends that
feel like siblings. I think this has to do with the fact that I try to be
completely open about who I am and my many short comings from the start. For
whatever reason you are more likely to get the same response. Maybe you are a
very open person and this is an unhelpful suggestion. But I'll make it anyway,
because you seem nice:)

------
Spearchucker
So I just read down to the bottom waiting to see the answer - common interests
- but didn't.

It's that easy. Find something you love doing, and you'll inevitably find and
meet like-minded people. You'll naturally gravitate to one or more in that
community and the seeds for friendship awesomeness are yours to nourish and
grow.

Personal experience has yielded 20+ year friendships by skydiving, scuba
diving, radio control, and martial arts.

~~~
Pamar
Joining a Dojo (any kind of group practicing some kind of Martial Art, not
necessarily a Japanese one) is a good idea - in my experience the sense of
camaraderie is a good way to make friends outside of training hours. Also,
there are many different martial arts, more or less ritualized, more or less
strenuous, so there is a good chance you may find something that appeals to
your own preferences.

~~~
A_Beer_Clinked
Speaking of Dojo. Why not mentor at your local Coder Dojo? (Or start one) I've
found it a great way to meet people and have made some good friends with other
mentors and the parents of the ninjas (kids).

[https://coderdojo.com/](https://coderdojo.com/)

------
shocks
Get a hobby. Join a club. Mine hobby is riding a motorcycle. I've seriously
met people and made friends through reddit by PMing them saying "Hey, we live
pretty close, wanna ride?".

Making friends and building relationships, like everything else, requires
work. You won't get it for free, except at school/work where you're basically
forced to be around the same people all the time.

------
solusglobus
Read the book by Dale Carnegie ([http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-
Influence-People/dp/06...](http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-
People/dp/0671027034)). Joining events on
[http://www.meetup.com/](http://www.meetup.com/) can be helpful too.

~~~
solusglobus
To the OP, if you do not have time to read or if you are not sure whether it
is worth reading, you can read the summary at
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influen...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People)

First impression is very important when you are meeting anyone. One of the
most important takeaways from the book is "be genuinely interested in other
people".

~~~
Tomte
I've written another summary, focused only on a few points, but a bit more
flesh, not just bullet points: [http://www.2uo.de/how-to-win-
friends/](http://www.2uo.de/how-to-win-friends/)

------
joss82
Great idea for a website or app!

Here in france, we have a website called On Va Sortir (We Are Going Out:
[http://paris.onvasortir.com](http://paris.onvasortir.com)) that allows people
(mostly newcomers from the rest of the country) to schedule meetups.

It's a bit like meetup.com, just more local and tuned to french people.

Maybe Canada needs its own Meetup?

------
collyw
A lot of cities have meetup groups (www.meetup.com) for whatever interests you
might have. I am in Barcelona, and there are a number of expat groups,
practice spanish groups, as well as tech meetup groups (as well as a ton more
- the ones I mentioned are maybe more relevant to a newcomer in the city).

------
kleer001
"deep and meaningful connections or friendships"

You mean a wife or husband? Or a dog? Maybe find a church you like?

------
EToS
Social groups are good way of meeting new friends, tech meetups, karate,
tennis..

------
Taylor_OD
I always tell people who move to a new city to join a meetup, class, or some
type of group that will force you to repetitively be around the same group of
people. If you have basic social skills you will make friends.

------
brudgers
Pursue your interests, skydiving, wargaming, poetry, dance, futbol, religion,
politics, whatever. This is somewhat likely to lead to meeting people with a
shared interest. That's the basis for community.

Good luck.

------
jacquesm
Were you successful making such friendships earlier in life?

~~~
sgt
This raises a good point. If he wasn't good at making such relationships
earlier in life, he may be a bit challenged. I think part of his problem is
also that he's looking for deep friendships. They don't come easily.

You don't have to be someone's soul mate in order to enjoy time with them.
Those things will come naturally (Or not - but at least you did go out and
socialize.)

~~~
jacquesm
To me deep friendships are the distilled product of having many shallow ones.
One does not go out to make deep friendships, one goes out to make friends or
acquaintances and some of those contacts will deepen over time.

------
cwarrior
Join a local facebook group. I joined a local music/partying facebook group
and have met tons of new people after that through regular meetups.

------
gesman
Join extreme-ish outdoor activity group.

Nothing bonds people faster and stronger than helping each other to survive in
a wilderness.

------
kyriakos
get a hobby - preferably one that requires you to be outdoors (sports, hiking,
photography etc). you can't believe how many people you meet, some of them are
bound to be good friend material.

------
keerthiko
There are ways to make deeper relationships faster. The key is to become an
irreplaceable existence in each others' lives. People fall in love and become
closer than any childhood friends (in several aspects at least) even if they
meet late in life, right? You basically need to create that kind of
relationship with whoever you choose to cultivate a deep friendship with.

You can certainly overcome the time condition with practice on getting closer
faster. I spent 2 years as a nomad traveling through and living in ~8 vastly
different cultures where I didn't even speak the language and had no local
friends before I got there. Before that, I was born in India, grew up in the
Middle East, studied on the East Coast, and worked in California. During all
these transitions I went through lots of periods of incredible loneliness and
missing out on the long-standing relationships others had, which is I guess
how I learned most of this. Some general tips based on that experience.

\- Cut the chitchat. Skip the "where do you work? where did you grow up?
what's your favorite color?" bullshit when you meet someone. It isn't
enriching, and it's more often than not forgettable for both people. You will
learn these things about each other over time if you become closer, so save it
for later. Don't initiate these questions, and find ways to segway out of this
into the other stuff (see below) if the other person initiates it.

\- Forge a mentor/padawan relationship. If you know more about something
they're interested in, or vice versa, go for this, and do it in a respectful
manner whichever side you're on, but also be willing to treat them as a peer.
This instantly makes you irreplaceable as a friend they can and want to learn
from (or teach to), when it's something they're embarrassed to do with their
other friends.

\- Be a good conversationalist. Listen to what they're saying, ask interesting
questions, always prioritizing making them feel comfortable telling you more
stuff and think more, rather than just making smalltalk. Try to relate to what
they're saying but with as little talking about yourself. Direct the
conversation towards interesting aspects of the topic rather than mundane
superficial details. E.g.

Them: Ugh rough day at work

You: Good challenges or stuff you wish you didn't have to deal with? (rather
than "tell me about it")

Them: I guess good challenges, but I wouldn't want to face this too often. We
were having a crisis deciding which one the core feature of our new product
is, and I and the director of product had somewhat conflicting opinions.
(rather than what he would have said "oh, argument with my boss")

This provokes thought, and they associate talking to you with having more
meaningful conversations, rather than just regurgitating the same words they'd
used with their mom or the bartender who said they looked down.

\- Practice under semi-artificial constraints. As someone else suggested,
couchsurfing (or living in dorm-style AirBnBs). You will meet other solo
travelers or hosts who would like to get to know you. Practice these with
them. The time-limit on when you'll depart will encourage everyone to have
more fun with you before you go.

\- Break down your walls. Be open. Talk about deep topics and expose your
flaws and vulnerabilities and things you care about. Talk about things like
this, your loneliness and jealousy over other people having deeper
friendships. You make yourself vulnerable, but it'll appeal to human empathy,
and people will want to help [NOTE: Don't get needy or whiny. Just explore
your internal workings together with people]. This draws them in faster and
they will want to understand you at a deeper level. They don't see you as that
guy who's sitting across the table from them, but as a fellow human being who
is in need of their company. People love feeling needed.

\- Live together, travel together. Don't live alone. When traveling, don't get
a hotel room, go dorm-style. When renting, get a house with a shared kitchen
and living room. Carpool. Do a sport with your housemates, work on home decor
together (furniture shopping, etc). Go hang out in their room.

\- Play games. Sports are not always easy to coordinate, but
football/basketball/tennis with colleagues or other friends is a great way to
get closer. If those aren't feasible, play video games together. Have a video
game party evening now and then for console people, or just play online while
voice chatting in a Hangout/Skype call. Make non-game-related conversation
when between games. Or if you want to be away from the computer, play board
games. With your housemates, a nearby board game meetup, coworkers, etc.
Gaming brings out a lot of personality aspects of people, and they don't waste
energy on chitchat.

\- The above can be summarized as don't just talk to people, but have
_experiences_ together. Suffer something together (sport/school/gym), build
something together (work/cooking/housekeeping), enjoy something together
(concert/games).

The part I didn't talk about much is how to meet people. I'll leave that to
you. I hope this gives you an idea on what aspects of your human interaction
to improve upon so that you can make the most of the pool of people you _do_
get to meet, and get deeper and closer friendships overcoming the aspect of
duration.

------
cafard
Volunteer.

------
tmaly
how about trying some tech meetups?

------
hoodoof
Find a counsellor.

