

This is how you write a reverse job application - JohnnyBrown
http://www.thejohnnybrown.com/?p=21

======
KirinDave
You know, I'm not particularly famous. I'm not the best engineer, software
designer, or manager you will find. I am certainly not the worst of these you
will find, and I enjoy my work and challenging projects; these are aspects
that employers seem to look for in employees.

I have no angry blog posts demanding I am hired, no complaints about how my
work is under-appreciated splashed on a news site, and no demo work thrown out
to the world like a challenge. And so, it surprises me that people feel the
need to do PR stunts to get recruiters to call them. Too many call me. I write
at least one polite rejection a week—the worst it's ever been was 6 in a week.

I'm not sure what I'm doing right and these people doing wrong, but there's
nothing magical about having recruiters call you. Put your name where
recruiters look, and they _will_ call you. But be warned, this is not as
awesome as you might think... most companies are far worse at vetting how well
you'd fit than you are. You end up wasting a lot of time.

~~~
sdrinf
Protip: timewaste comes not from the companies themselves, rather sneaky
recruiters, who will, at some point in the conversation, offhandedly ask 1, to
provide references (previous managers you've worked with), and 2, who's
interested in you currently (usually dressed up as "how do you find the
marketplace?" -type of questions).

Do not, under any circumstances, give out these datapoints early in the game
(personally, I don't give them out at all, but I imagine some large corps to
require at final stages). Recruiters will use this as lead-generation for
potentials to sell candidates of their own. This will not only lower your
chances in potential new places, but destroys your reputation with your
existing clients.

For more information, see the book "Dirty rotten recruiter tricks" :)

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netaustin
I don't know about this. Something about Andrew Horner's reverse job
application was amusing; I find this one a bit creepy. I find his demo
application to be a disheartening demonstration of an oblivious sort of sexism
that's all too prevalent in software development already. And using this to
seek contract work (versus a FT job) also rings false; there are plenty of
better ways about that, too.

What's more, the application needs work; this data isn't useful. Who cares
where the ladies are right at this instant? They're not some foursquare-
checking horde who zip from place to place en masse, and the statistics page
(<http://nolaladies.com/pages/statistics>) shows just how few people use
foursquare in New Orleans at all.

~~~
pavel_lishin
> a disheartening demonstration of an oblivious sort of sexism that's all too
> prevalent in software development already

I don't think it's a demonstration of sexism in software development, but a
reflection of sexual politics in the real world. He built a product people
want.

If he built a product that helped people file lawsuits, would anyone claim
that it's a disheartening demonstration of the litigiousness in software
development? Or if he built a project that helped people find drink specials,
would it be sign that alcoholism is a serious problem for developers?

~~~
netaustin
Let's be honest, this is an appeal for work, or maybe a marketing ploy of some
sort. As an appeal for work it reads "I can be part of the boys' club." But a
product people want? Please. There is not nearly enough Foursquare data in New
Orleans to warrant this effort, and even if there was, can you identify the
user that would look at this for more than a quick amusement? Ratio Finder
(<http://www.weeplaces.com/ratiofinder/>) is better for actual planning
because it shows historical data, not current trends.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to pop over to Imelda's Fine Shoes and hit on
the only female foursquare user in all of New Orleans.

~~~
pavel_lishin
Just because the thing you want isn't feasible doesn't mean people don't want
it. (Example: bullshit diet fads. There's no healthy way to drop fifty pounds
in 30 days, but people still google for it, and then try it.)

And regardless of whether it actually works or not, I think it demonstrates a
familiarity with multiple skills necessary for web development - working with
APIs, hosting a site without it coming crashing down, writing HTML, etc.,
etc., etc.

------
theDoug
Johnny is right in pointing out that this is simply called advertising, and is
part of contracting. He's also entirely correct in pointing out that in the
world of software all you really need to do is produce something.

I think the best way to go about writing a 'reverse' job application is
generally "don't." Trying to copy The Oatmeal, adding in cute images, and
other 'fun' gags to show you think freely (only when compared to an average
9-5er) doesn't make your software any better. Give me someone who wants to
create software that they feel passionately about, and can also express that,
and leave the XKCD comics at home.

The photographer Rick Sammon has said a few times "Before people care how much
you know, they want to know how much you care." Personality is great in any
application, but if you walked into an office with a comic strip, we'd point
you to one of the city newspapers.

~~~
zabraxias
My industry background is primarily digital marketing and if you can walk into
their office with good comic strips it's a guarantee of a great start. If you
can produce something of quality comparable to The Oatmeal you'd have awesome
chances of getting hired.

Creativity has its place but not as much in certain industries I suppose.

------
wheaties
This person gets it. It took me a year after grad school to find a job I
wanted. I tried a semester of teaching first, as an experiment, but eventually
was hired when I could demonstrate the ability to produce new ideas.

That last article had me thinking the same. In one year why not demonstrate
any sort of ambition or drive? Go out and make something. Unless you've signed
a contract giving your current employer rights to all your ideas there's
really no excuse. 4 hours a day looking for work, 4 hours hacking. There's
your 9-5.

------
js2
Maybe, but one of the first things I look for in a prospective candidate is
open source contributions. That is what I consider an ideal reverse job
application. You're benefitting the community and I get to see your code.

~~~
flacon
His Github profile is right here: github.com/thejohnnybrown

------
donniefitz2
Didn't someone alredy write this app a few weeks ago? Wasn't it called Where
The Ladies At? ([http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/02/wheretheladies-at-shows-
you...](http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/02/wheretheladies-at-shows-you-where-
the-ladies-are-at/))

If you're applying for a job with this, I'd say one strike for ripping your
idea off.

------
bluishgreen
Good example of PR. This is a nice example of how you take a story that is
fresh in everyones mind and ride on it.

------
apl

      > Aside from the fact that hundreds of thousands of people
      > and businesses are doing exactly the same thing as him
      > (we’re called contractors and it’s called advertising)
    

Thanks for pointing that out. The internet does offer a lot of genuine
cleverness. Reverse job application with quirky little drawings, though?
That's like one of these Steve-Carrell-pseudo-indie-movies that Fox
Searchlight keeps churning out.

------
some1else
Actually, Github may be the best place to write reverse job applications.

~~~
zackattack
Doesn't it take additional proactive work, unless you write some awesome,
popular software?

~~~
3pt14159
Works like this

Probability of Getting a Job = min((awesomeness of github) * (social skills) *
(visibility at local tech events) * (salary expecting to pay / salary asked
for),(1))

Where all variables range from 0.25 to 1.25.

~~~
eru
Asking for a low salary doesn't really your chances, if you are obviously
worth more. People will smell something fishy, justified or not.

------
charlief
There is no doubt that this a great demonstration, but you could also borrow
elements of Andrew Horner's approach. Something about Andrew's approach is
fresh, and something about your approach is reliable, practical and clearly
demonstrates your abilities.

THE reverse job application is probably a combination of both approaches, your
skills and demonstrations presented in a fresh approach or format. Maybe kooky
drawings aren't the answer, but something more unique than unformatted content
buried in a blog post would grab the attention of recruiters.

------
sp4rki
I don't put myself out there at all and I've always found it incredibly easy
to find jobs in the tech industry. As a matter of fact I get calls from
recruiters at least once a week and the most I've got is 5 calls in a week,
for jobs that honestly are at least decently paid. It's even worse because I
have being stalling a degree in finance (yeah I'm weird like that...) for the
last 4 years, while working as a developer. So I don't even have a degree. At
this point I'd probably explain this because I have work experience that
'proves' me but I didn't have it at the beginning and I still found it easy
anyways.

------
andrenotgiant
erm, no that is how you copy an app: <http://www.weeplaces.com/ratiofinder/>

------
tocomment
My friend has made four awesome sites like this, but everywhere he interviews
at they disregard those sites and assume he can't program because he kind of
stumbles around when answering coding questions. He told me it's a combination
of being nervous and using a lot of notes while he works because doesn't have
a good memory.

I always wonder who potential employers think made his web applications when
they reject him saying he doesn't know enough programming.

~~~
jim_dot
Yeah I'm pretty terrible on the phone, and I have over 5 years of professional
experience (plus coding since I was about 15). So when I get to the part of
the phone call where they ask computer science questions I haven't thought
about in a bunch of years, I usually just fumble about, get concepts confused,
and generally completely blank out.

The better ones are the companies who ask you to do a coding assignment (and
I'm not talking FizzBuzz). Sure I wouldn't want to end up having TOO MANY
companies ask me to do it since it would be very time consuming, but certainly
if you're taking your time to go through the process you should be able to put
some time into writing a small demo app for companies you're passionate about
joining.

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ifesdjeen
OK, that sounds like a marketplace, honestly.

Like: i'm tired of looking for work, let the work find me.

Create an auction with "hire-me" apps. It may be half-baked/weekend
projects/proof of concept things etc. People come over to that kind of a
"marketplace", and make an offer, no CV/interview required.

~~~
btilly
In no time flat it will be filled with apps copied from someone else, and the
people hired will be unable to do any useful work at all.

------
nadam
It is trivial that you should show some of your works in your job
application/CV/website/reverse-job-application (does not matter for me how you
call your pitch).

I think you can further improve this by:

\- Providing the source code. You created something technically quite trivial
(you have to deal with much more complex beasts even at an entry level job at
BigCo), so the fact that you could do this is less interesting than how you
solved this. Your coding style speaks a lot about your programming abilities.

\- Or creating something technically less trivial (in that case the fact that
you could do it is very interesting alone, so the source code is not that
important). This may require more effort though.

------
Tycho
Hmm, when I complete my MSc in a few months I'll have a GAE web app to show
for it. However I never expected that to get me a job, I figured I'd need to
create about 5 webapps, and maybe a complex desktop app before I'd have a
portfolio that screamed 'HIRE ME' (considering my lack of industry
experience). I agree with the general premise but a borderline useless
FOursquare app surely isn't going to impress much? (unless most graduates are
a lot less able than I'm assuming)

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calloc
I expected that when I see a Google Map on a website that I am able to then
click on it and drag it around. That is not the case here, I feel that it
takes away from the website in general.

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erikstarck
There is of course always the option that instead of you going to _look_ for a
job you _create_ a job.

~~~
nadam
I agree, but creating a job is much much harder than successfully applying for
a(n average) job.

