
Tesla sues Alameda County to force California factory reopening - anandaverma18
https://techcrunch.com/2020/05/09/tesla-sues-alameda-county-to-force-california-factory-reopening/
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merricksb
Active discussion here:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23129942](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23129942)

Also:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23126517](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23126517)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23127552](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23127552)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23129216](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23129216)

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natch
Elon said they have been able to reopen safely in China, and that zero of
their 7,000 employees there have died of Corona.

Joe Rogan challenged him on this, asking “how can you trust the Chinese
media”?

Elon’s answer: We don’t have to rely on the media. We know how many people we
have. We have to; we do payroll.

He has a point. And zero is a pretty good number.

If they know how to do it in China, they can apply those same safety measures
elsewhere. I wish he would also acknowledge family spread and fatalities if
there are any, because that can also be a thing. But still, hard news, this is
something we are going to have to live with for a while. And they are managing
it pretty well in one factory at least.

Also if you haven’t ever been to a Tesla factory... it’s not a place where
people are crammed together by any means. It’s vast. Workers are quite spread
out for the most part.

~~~
cactus2093
I can’t follow his logic whatsoever.

China...actually handled this outbreak. That’s why they can reopen. They were
locked down for months in many areas. So that comparison if anything is a
justification not to reopen right now - stay locked down long enough to squash
this, and we’ll be able to safely reopen like China.

If anything he should be suing the county for putting on such an ineffective
lockdown which makes this take longer than it needed to. Businesses are forced
to close but for individuals it’s basically a completely voluntary lockdown
right now and I see lots of people opting out, not wearing masks, meeting up
with friends, etc.

~~~
natch
The way you talk about people’s behavior, meeting up with friends and such, it
almost sounds like going to work in the factory would actually be safer,
because people are so physically separated there in their different tasks.

BTW if you don’t wear a mask and go out without getting within 6 feet of
anyone, you’re not opting out of California guidance. You’re following it.
Masks are for if you do expect to encounter situations where you are closer
than 6 feet for an extended time. People are lazy and don’t read the fine
print, and they miss this part.

~~~
cactus2093
> BTW if you don’t wear a mask and go out without getting within 6 feet of
> anyone, you’re not opting out of California guidance.

Exactly, this is the type of half-assed measures that may be preventing our
decline in cases. (If it's not, and there is good evidence of exactly what
types of activities California's continued plateau of cases is coming from, I
would be very interested to read about that).

Unless you're in a very rural area, you can't possibly be sure that you won't
have to pass within 6 ft of someone when you go outside. A single other person
walking on the sidewalk with you is going to inevitably be less than 6 ft
away. Not to mention that the 6ft advice was just ballpark to begin with, and
the virus can seemingly travel further in e.g. the slipstreams of a runner or
biker's breath, or even hang around in the air. Masks should be required even
outside during the Phase 1, full-lockdown phase. It's a such a minor
additional inconvenience for people.

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mchusma
I have been wondering for a while what the legal mechanism for shutting down
businesses in the US actually is. I'm not being snarky, I just literally don't
understand the legal mechanism.

Prior to this crisis I would not have thought shutting down businesses at
large scale would be possible without legislation. But I haven't heard of much
legislative proceedings.

Have governor's and local officials always had very broad powers over people
and businesses, they just never used it at scale until the pandemic? I
understand if there is a disaster and you can't convene the legislature fast
enough to respond, and you need 72 hours of time to let the legislature come
together (for example an earthquake or terrorist event). But there has been
plenty of time now for our normal legislative process to resume. Does this
have to do with an emergency declaration? Is there a limit to how long an
emergency can be declared (like 60 days of a year)?

~~~
catalogia
The CDC and/or FEMA having emergency powers during pandemics beyond what might
be expected was something of a sci-fi trope for years. I guess there was some
kernel of truth to that premise.

Example from the sci-fi game Deus Ex:

> Informed Guard: _Executive Order 10990. It lets us take over all modes of
> transportation._

> New Guard: _FEMA can do that?_

> Informed Guard: _If the President declares an emergency. Executive Order
> 10995. We can take over the media._

> New Guard: _All of it?_

> Informed Guard: _Any at all. Executive Order 10997. We can take command of
> natural resources._

> New Guard: _So it 's all legal. _

> Informed Guard: _The National Security Act also falls under our umbrella.
> And the Defense Production Act. If he plays his cards right, Walton Simons
> can pull off a bloodless coup._

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postmeta
Does anyone actually know what Alameda re-opening criteria the Tesla plan
doesn't satisfy?

[https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/blog_attachments/T...](https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/blog_attachments/Tesla-
Return-to-Work-Playbook.pdf)

~~~
thdrdt
I can't find it right now but I read it also had to do with the fact that they
violated safety laws multiple times.

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jmpman
When the China plant reopened, how many new cases a day were being reported in
that plant’s city? I was under the impression that China didn’t reopen until
the detected new infection rate was zero.

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RickJWagner
Given the good Tesla does environment-wise, I'd favor letting them re-open.

Musk sure knows how to get people's attention. Maybe he's got a future in
politics.

~~~
bobcostas55
>Maybe he's got a future in politics.

Hopefully as the first King of Mars.

~~~
ipnon
Apparently many Terrans would be happy to see him gone.

