

Hang Around with People who Get Shit Done - jaxn
http://jaxn.org/article/hang-around-with-people-who-get-shit-done

======
eykanal
In the realm of "productivity", there are many different personality types:

\- People with vision, who can recognize potential in a concept or idea

\- People who, given an idea, can conceptualize all the use cases and rare
exceptions

\- People who can initiate projects and provide good momentum for all those
involved

\- People who take a task, buckle, down and get their part done

\- People who carefully examine other folks' work to check for mistakes

\- People who can take a languishing project and bring it through to
completion

\- People who play constructive devil's advocate, helping you consider all the
possible risks

\- People with all sorts of other skills that I didn't think of right now

\- People who slack

When building a team, you'll need almost all of these personality types (you
could probably leave out the slacker, though). Don't throw out the baby with
the bathwater by only looking for the "manager" types or the "coder" types.

~~~
fragsworth
Might just be me, but I feel like you're really over-analyzing things here.

~~~
wtvanhest
Ah, the constructive devil's advocate.

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run4yourlives
This is - frankly - bad advice. Especially for a young child.

It's a bad idea to pigeon hole yourself into "hanging around" one type of
person or one people who are dominant in one type of trait. The whole reason
people build teams is to maximize differing traits to gain the most value from
each. You'll gain the most from life from leaning to recognize this as early
as possible.

In this case, people that "get things done" at youth levels are generally
those with strong implementation skills - the "doers" of the world if it were.
But implementers are only part of the picture. There are several other
personality types that are just as beneficial to outcomes, and by excluding
them you exclude many strengths in the name of pure productivity.

eykanal leads into this in his comment but I'd like to expand on it a bit.

Stereotyping examples here for ease of explanation:

People with strong vision and ideas tend to be able to see 10 steps ahead of
others. However these people also tend to be horrible at getting things done
on their own. Their joy is looking forward, not being in the moment. Without
these people however, we cannot move forward. These people will be the ones
that think it would be neat to build an Eiffel Tower out of toothpicks in the
first place.

People with an eye for detail tend to be strong editors/coaches etc. These
people might not dream up new approaches or work hard to see them to
completion, but they are experts at critique and can notice, for instance,
that the toothpick Eiffel Tower could be 3 feet higher if you simply adjusted
the angle at which you glued the toothpicks together by 5 degrees.

People who "get shit done" often tend to be implementers. They may have seen
that toothpick Eiffel Tower in a book or heard about it from a friend, but
they went out and got the resources and started putting things together.

My entire point: None of these people are more or less valuable than any
other. It isn't the skill-set that is the important variable, but the degree
at which the person employs their talents that matters. Suggesting your child
should "hang around" the implementers _while discarding others_ is basically
teaching them that only certain key talents are valuable and the rest are
garbage.

That type of thinking actually _reduces_ their long term chances of success,
because like it or not, no one person can be outstandingly good at every
viable human talent. People who realize what they aren't good at will team up
with others who excel in that talent and will get much further ahead overall.

Accept and reject _individuals_. Don't evaluate personality types. Some of the
most profound thinkers in history were slackers. Some of the best coaches of
elite athletes suck at the sports they teach.

~~~
jaxn
OP here.

It was not my intent to pigeon hole people based on their outcomes. Time spent
doing is different than creating or implementing.

For instance, reading all of the Harry Potter books is getting something done
too. Flipping channels on the couch all day, not so much. The skateboard
example in my post is also a good one - that is getting something done.
Standing around the ramp and pretending to skate isn't.

Also, coaching is doing something cool.

As for the comment about visionaries. Doesn't that only matter if they can
sell their vision? And wouldn't "selling a vision" be getting something done.
(I don't mean sales in the $$$ way, just in the sense of transferring the
vision to others and maybe inspiring action)

Thinking isn't really doing, but sharing those thoughts is. Frankly, the most
profound thinkers who never shared their thoughts in a way that impacted
others had no real impact on the world.

~~~
TwiztidK
"For instance, reading all of the Harry Potter books is getting something done
too. Flipping channels on the couch all day, not so much."

I've always found it interesting that reading, as a form of entertainment,
always seems to be held on a pedestal compared to television, cinema, or
videogames. It's a kind of elitism that the literati hold over everyone who
doesn't find reading as enjoyable as them. Consider this: one person reads the
entire Harry Potter series and another reads the entire Twilight series, both
are reading but the quality of the material is completely different. Assuming
that literature is de facto superior to any other form entertainment is
completely ignorant and wrong.

In this case, swap "flipping channels all day", which could include watching
informative shows such as Bill Nye, How It's Made, or Mythbusters, with
"watching Jersy Shore all day" and confusion about entertainment quality
preferences are removed.

~~~
shykes
I mostly agree with you, with a caveat: reading involves practicing an
increasingly scarce skill: the ability to focus for long periods of time.

~~~
goblin89
I think this quote is relevant:

“One of my mentors asked me what was better – to spend 10 hours in front of
the TV or to spend 10 hours doing other activities. Of course, I said the
latter – there are few things I think that are worse than just sitting in
front of the TV. Wrong, he said. It makes no difference – because what matters
is how intensely you do any of those activities. It’s how much intensity you
inject into those 10 hours rather than how you superficially spend them. If
you watch TV intensely, with purpose, for 10 hours, you probably spent those
10 hours well.”[0]

I acknowledge that _watching with purpose_ and _flipping channels_ are
different things—the point is, maybe _what_ you do matters not as much as
_how_ you do it.

Perhaps watching TV is an activity that by its nature discourages any purpose
and intensity, while reading has opposite effect? (Although I totally can read
with my mind half-off, so it probably depends on an individual.)

[0] [http://thescenicroute0.wordpress.com/2011/12/10/passion-
make...](http://thescenicroute0.wordpress.com/2011/12/10/passion-makes-all-
things-alive-and-significant/)

------
knowtheory
Dude totally buries the lede.

You gain respect from others who get shit done by _getting shit done_. It's
not just important to hang around folks who do things, you need to participate
in the community by doing things yourself.

The advice "hang around people who do things" and "dump people who don't do
things" is very much losing the forest for the trees.

~~~
jaxn
To me, that means it is a feedback loop. Hang around people who do things, do
things, more people who do things hang around, etc.

Thanks for the feedback.

~~~
nik_0_0
It is a feedback loop, but how can you hang around people who do things in the
first place? Someone in your group has to be the one who initially does
things, so why not make that you!

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ZanderEarth32
While this advice is sound, it borders on extreme. I'd tell my kids (I don't
have any, and don't plan on it btw) to hang around good people. Some of those
good people will 'get shit done', others won't but there is something to gain
from being around good people. Valuing people on their amount of output seems
to cheapen their existence. I know a lot of people who don't 'get shit done'
but are great people who I value, and I am happy to have in my life. I don't
blame my lack of productivity on those around me.

~~~
citricsquid
I'd guess the best way to summarise the type of people you mean are "positive"
people. Positive in their outlook, attitude and output.

~~~
ZanderEarth32
Yes, 'positive' is a better way to describe the people I am referring to.

------
T_S_
I learned this a long time ago: "If you want to get something done ask a busy
person to do it."

~~~
ctdonath
And better is to decide to be a busy person.

My wife keeps asking where I get the energy to do so much. Answer: I don't,
it's not about having the energy, it's about just doing what needs to be done.

~~~
run4yourlives
Just remember that life is what is happening while you are busy getting shit
done.

------
hackNightly
This is so true. Surrounding yourself with people who are making things happen
is a sure fire way to get motivated. Not to mention, these are definitely the
type of people you want to have around you when building a team. Very good
post.

------
jpwagner
Clearly good advice, but I'll add two cents.

Hang around people who are passionate about things and try to make your circle
include people passionate about very different things.

------
efnx
I totally agree with the poster, but at the same time it feels a little
pretentious. I think people might have more fun if they just hung out with
people that make them feel good, which may include 'people who get shit done'
or 'people who are not overly judgmental' or 'people who really like playing
magic'. It's easy to get caught up in constant productivity. There is merit to
the phrase 'stopping to smell the flowers'. 2cents.

~~~
ctdonath
<http://www.xkcd.com/863/>

------
cbp
People like to throw around this kind of advice often. Hanging around people
who "get shit done" is a privilege that not everyone has. What happens when
you go to a cheap college in Mexico where none of the computer science
teachers have ever worked in a large scale application and most haven't even
written one in their lives? How do you apply this advice when 90% of your
classmates can't read a sentence of english and learning something unusual
like python and deploying a toy app on some server not only puts you ahead by
miles of the rest of your class but also of the rest of your entire
generation? Some communities don't have this kind of people. Is someone in
this position supposed to ditch everyone around him/her?

~~~
aurelianito
If you have internet access, hang around on-line communities that get shit
done that interests you. Open source projects are the trivial example, but
there are other options too.

For instance, I do participate in flashmobs organized via Facebook and I
didn't know anyone there the first time I went. Some friends are the core
group of a well known latin-american mailing list dedicated to crack software
(and most of them learned how to use cracking tools by hanging around in the
list). These friends are from small towns around Argentina (where usually
there are very few interesting people). Also, lots of charities and political
parties are open for people who want to do things and organize via internet.

------
EricDeb
Nowadays I think a viable substitute is simply exposure to such people through
a technical medium. A lot of my friends don't accomplish anything, yet I
associate through technology with people and energy that inspires me to
accomplish more.

I also think this advice can have negative repercussions. I have friends who
think "I can only be disciplined and accomplish anything if I am around
inspiring people," and use it as an excuse to accomplish nothing on their own
and be an emotional leech when they are around successful people.

------
chexton
I interpret this in the sense that your environment is a key driver of your
actions.

For me this is most evident when observing where I (/ my friends) live. If you
live with people who drink four nights a week, guess what...you probably will
too. If you live with people who cook healthy food and go running three times
a week there is a much greater chance you will too.

Obviously you can rise above your surroundings but if you have a goal then you
should put yourself in an environment conducive to getting there.

------
wilhow
As the saying goes "show me your friends and I'll show you your future"

------
bking
There is no way to keep up close rlationships with everyone you meet so it is
important to give preference to people with the qualities that you most admire
and desire to replicate.

Driven, Creative, Intelligent, professional, and Open-minded are a couple of
my general "qualifications" I use when deciding where I should put my effort.

It might sound cold and calculating, but that is because I am trying to put no
bias into it. I promis I am not that ruthless and cold.

------
brlewis
Anybody have a twitter list of people who always tweet about things they get
done? I hardly use twitter, but would if I had such a list.

Related: Show HN posts: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4053427>

~~~
amcintyre
I'm going to guess that a non-trivial fraction of people that get things done
don't bother tweeting about it.

------
nswanberg
This advice generalizes well: if you want to lose weight or be fit, join a
running club.

~~~
jaxn
Part of the inspiration for the post actually :)

------
xd
As a dad-to-be I find this "advice" to be awfully elitist and wouldn't
entertain it with my child in the slightest. Judging your friends on there
abilities is sad .. friendships are not made this way.

~~~
jaxn
I think we all try to teach our kids to avoid the mistakes that we made and to
grow from the successes that we have had. Your lessons will likely be
different from mine.

------
pyoung
Reminds me of this:

[http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/25/health/25iht-
fat.4.6830240...](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/25/health/25iht-
fat.4.6830240.html?pagewanted=all)

While the results of this study are fairly intuitive, they also are fairly
profound. When I take step back and look at my core group of friends and how
we have evolved over the years, it is frightening to notice the similarities
in our evolution (if you can call it that).

------
yawgmoth
Also surround yourself with slackers. Surround yourself with people every type
you can. Learn from them all. Even the lazy ones can teach you things.

~~~
nswanberg
"Surround yourself with everyone" isn't really actionable advice. It'd be sort
of like hanging out at the mall or the quad of a large univerity. Maybe
instead spend some time with the niches and factions of life. To continue the
university analogy: stop by the chess club, hang out with some rowers, say
"hi" to the debate team, show up at the stoners' party.

~~~
pashamur
As a chess-playing collegiate rower who likes engage in random debates with
people, I think I've done all of the above :) Variety is definitely important
to keep things interesting - I think getting stuck in one "niche" circle is
fairly alienating - even if that niche group gets shit done. You start
filtering people based on some common preconceptions. Being part of several
different groups with differing viewpoints, on the other hand, should make you
value individuality more and be a more rounded/easier person to be around.

Just my $0.02

------
ByteMuse
This is great advice - I would like to add a bit of philosophy that someone
once gave me:

Experience is more important than achievement.

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allardschip
I would not teach my children to hang out with people to get things done per
se. Just start getting stuff done regardless of others and as a nice side-
effect you will find yourself hanging out with others who get stuff done.

------
ams6110
And the converse: avoid spending time with slackers.

~~~
brd
Depends on your definition of slacker... The original article says "Getting
air on a 10 foot tall ramp with a skateboard? Also cool." yet most people
would describe a skateboarder as a slacker.

I think being around people that aren't necessarily "productive" is perfectly
fine. It's being around people who do NOTHING that is bad but I find that if
you are the kind of person who does things then you will find yourself around
inactive people less and less over time.

Couch potatoes seem to attract one another and repel everyone else.

~~~
_delirium
It does seem to be a fairly context-dependent term. A lot of people here are
one kind: the kind of person who has enough time to accumulate thousands of
posts on HN is, at least in some people's minds, a kind of slacker, the 2010s
version of the 1990s posting-from-work Slashdotter. :)

It even takes a certain kind of slacking, in a sense, to read lots of random
Wikipedia articles, keep up with current events, browse arXiv papers not
directly on the topic of your current work, keep up with recent music, etc.
Arguably reading a lot is not really slacking. But maybe keeping up with
recent musical trends is? Seems all quite subjective, unless you literally are
doing nothing.

I tend to see it more as different thought/work styles along several axes. For
example, on a question of dabbling in side projects, for some people it'd be
good advice to suggest laying off and concentrating more on one thing, while
for others, encouraging a bunch of side projects is exactly the right advice.
Some people need to do less random-walk reading, while maybe others need to do
more...

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neutronicus
As someone who does a pretty middling amount of shit in the grand scheme of
things, articles like this make me sad.

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prisonguard
well i don't have kids but the one thing i'll teach my kids when i get them is
the pomodoro.

The fact that you can be insanely productive in short bursts of time while
taking breaks in between should not be underestimated.

you certainly don't need to be around productive people to be productive.

~~~
keithpeter
I have been using a much simplified version of the Pomodoro Method to
encourage teenagers to do homework/work individually without distractions in
class.

Modest progress; I'll push it earlier next year

------
lbraasch
To quote a previous HN article:

"You are the average of your 3 closest friends"

Pick your friends wisely.

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moron
I would've thought people who get shit done don't do much hanging around, on
account of all the shit they're getting done.

~~~
spaghetti
It's true. People who get stuff done are rare. Hence finding other people to
hang around can be difficult.

------
CubicleNinjas
Everyone believes they 'Get Shit Done'. Its just that everyone places value in
different shit.

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chrisennis
nice job bro...

------
CharlesPal
Solid advice

