
Square Arrives in Canada - joshma
https://squareup.com/news/releases/2012/square-arrives-in-canada?a=1
======
run4yourlives
You are useless in Canada without Interac (debit, but not really from a US POV
[1]). This is the number one choice of payment in Canada. Hell, I don't even
_carry_ cash anymore because Interac is near universal.

It's going to be difficult to gain traction for Square if they are offering
businesses a solution that only provides half of what the competition does,
even if it is cheaper.

Square has - unless they know something they aren't saying - massively
misunderstood the reality of the marketplace in Canada. It is not the US with
funny tax laws. In the realm of consumer banking/payment, we are light years
ahead of the US in certain key ways.

1\. In Canada, our bank/atm cards are our debit cards. The entire system is
linked with a joint network called Interac. When you open a bank account you
get a chip/PIN enabled card that allows you to make direct withdraws from
ATMs, as well as instantly buy something from a terminal at a store. Credit
Card providers are shut out of this system, and its 100% penetration with
Canadian banks has made it the primary consumer choice for payments. Yes,
security is a bit of an issue, hence the high rate of chip adoption in Canada.
See: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interac>

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amccloud
In the US our bank/atm cards are our debit cards. I don't see how that is
light years ahead of the US.

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msbarnett
Our debit cards don't have credit card companies man-in-the-middling the
transactions, instead using a standardized network governed by a non-profit.

Also the debit system has been ubiquitous for 28 years.

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zllak
What is really amazing is to launch a website this big and have a typo right
on the front page. "Sains frais" just means nothing. My guess is they wanted
to say "Sans frais", which is "without fee". Nobody speaks French at Square ?!

~~~
jameswyse
Their English isn't much better.

"Square Register is the free app that allows anyone to safe and secure credit
card payments with[...]"

That said, it isn't a big deal to me. Square is really cool and I hope it will
be available in Australia at some point, though I won't be holding my breath.

~~~
zachalexander
More startups should hire writers, or at least, people with some level of
writing skill who will notice stuff like this.

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skeletonjelly
Definitely under appreciated. Writing is everywhere!

~~~
zachalexander
*under-appreciated

;)

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nchlswu
Some of the comments criticising stripe-only and lack of Interac support, seem
a tad hyperbolic.

While these are valid concerns, Stripe transactions are still accepted and I'm
sure there's a decent chunk of places using stripe. By the time chip is
universal, I'm sure Square will have addressed this shortcoming. As for
Interac, I'm presumig that the expansion to Canada will also include the
Starbucks partnership, so I imagine it can't be far behind.

The regulatory environment is much different in Canada. The biggest thing I
see here is the fact that a startup with significant attention and traction is
entering our market. When they partnered with Starbucks, I was curious if that
would mean they would provide coverage across North America and it definitely
looks like they are. In the short term, I think Square Wallet is the key
takeaway here. Mobile payments are gaining some serious steam and Square has a
big chance to establish an early lead.

~~~
kerryfalk
I think some of my fellow Canadians are being a bit harsh on Square here. You
raise some good points, Starbucks is also one of the only places here in
Canada that I still swipe at. Most other places insert chip.

But I think it will take a long time for those others to switch or even
consider using a different platform. I'd guess that this is also what Square
assumes.

But there's a big opportunity here that I enjoy dealing with in the US but
hate here in Canada. I don't use cash and I travel a lot. I have to go to the
airport by taxi frequently. In Canada it's a pain in the ass because they
actually get out the old carbon copy machine and the drivers complain all the
time. In the US the driver hands me his phone with a Square on it. So much
better.

~~~
ConstantineXVI
Square's goal seems to be removing as many barriers as possible to accepting
CCs; they aren't aiming for people who already take them as much as those who
otherwise couldn't (easily). The hardware needed to accept chipped cards is
far more complex than the simple mag-stripe reader they're currently using
(not to mention likely not universal); it'll take time to start production on
those. The incumbents will still be around to displace once they're ready to.

~~~
subsystem
They could buy iZettle ;)

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blackysky
Someone should tell Square that in Canada we use smart chips...I don't
remember the last time I swipe a card....Cool product with prehistoric
technology...

~~~
jonny_eh
Canadian credit cards still have stripes on them that work. I don't see the
problem.

~~~
blackysky
You are right but you and I know the Square brand so I won't have a problem to
use it but here in canada any time Banks give you a brand new card with smart
chips , they tell you to stop using the swipe system because it's not as safe
as the smart chips... Guess what!? my mom stops and refuses to use a swipe
system of any kind....

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herge
Because the PIN is not meant to be shared, it is a lot easier for banks to
deny all responsibility for any card fraud when using chip-and-pin in court,
which is why they are so gung-ho in convincing people to use them.

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rmckayfleming
What would be amazing is if they started taking Interac as well.

~~~
msbarnett
Yeah, it feels significantly less useful in the Canadian market without
support for Interac. You couldn't run a business with just this, here (unless
you want to get yelled at by, and lose a lot of sales to, the 90% of your
customers who are going to want to pay by debit and not credit).

~~~
danudey
My girlfriend was selling at a craft fair recently, and I bought her a nice
pair of earrings from another vendor who used Intuit's GoPayment system, and
honestly I probably wouldn't have remembered to come back once I had cash (if
I'd even gone to get any). In that sort of environment, the standard is 'cash
only', so adding Visa/MC to that is a bonus, not a drawback, and in my case it
made her a $60 sale she wouldn't have otherwise had.

This is especially true for higher-ticket items like silver jewellery, where
I'm not likely to have $60 kicking around in my pocket, but I'll have no
problem putting $60 on my Visa. Personally, I also find it hard to part with
$60 in cash (more tangible) vs. putting it on my Visa or debit card.

For actual businesses (like bigger food carts), a proper 3G bank terminal is
probably the appropriate response, but in places where people aren't likely to
expect any card use at all (smaller food carts, craft fairs, yard sales),
having Square (or similar) is a net positive.

~~~
msbarnett
The problem is, that's really a different use case/value proposition than
Square has in the US.

Square is a godsend for small businesses there. Square's all over Portland,
for instance, not just at yard sales and craft faires but in real businesses
because it's an absolutely disruptive form of payment that lets them avoid
some onerous fees and setup costs, and it lets them accept debit because debit
piggybacks on the credit system in the US.

But it's pretty crippled for that here in Canada. I know several small
business, including my wife's, who were dying for Square to come here, because
getting set up with a proper payment terminal in Canada is obscenely expensive
for a small business.

But there's absolutely no way that they could use this as offered, with zero
debit support, ubiquitous customer demand for debit usage, and no support for
chip-reading in an environment where chip usage will be mandatory in 2 years
and in which not using a chip already causes credit card transactions to be
declined as 'suspicious' at a fairly high rate.

~~~
mcmatterson
I have to agree. I used Square in the US and loved it; since coming back to
Canada I've been singing its praises to anyone who'll listen. However, now
that it's launched and we've had time to think through what it looks like on
the ground, these all look like pretty serious limitations to its widespread
applicability in Canada. Although it's still useful for my needs (the odd
Craigslist purchase, craft fairs, pop-up stores in the neighbourhood), I can't
see it being as disruptive here as it is in the US given these limitations.

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mcantelon
Impressive that Square can launch in Canada while much of Google's offerings
apparently can't.

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jonnycowboy
Does anybody know how they deal with the smart chips on the credit card?
Almost no retailer uses the swipe anymore.

~~~
msbarnett
They seemingly don't. Which gives the current reader a, what, 2 year lifespan
max? They shut swipe-based transactions down entirely at the beginning of
2015, IIRC. My Visa already is far more likely to flag a transaction as
suspicious if it isn't chip-authenticated.

Between that and the total lack of Interac support, this is honestly a pretty
lame offering. It feels like Square has absolutely no awareness of the current
state of Canadian payment systems.

~~~
mikeash
They give the reader away for free, and it costs them almost nothing to make
it. Who cares if it's only good for a couple of years?

~~~
msbarnett
If I'm going to use Square for my business, I want to know I'm not going to be
changing horses frantically in 24 months when the strip is no longer an
option.

The problem here is that Square is launching with, for the Canadian market,
antiquated, rapidly approaching EOL technology, and given no indications if or
when they'll catch up to the standard -- or even that they realize that their
offering is substandard here compared to the US. Will they issue a new reader
next month? A week before the deadline? Will they just pull out in 24 months?

No answers forthcoming.

(and that's on top of the other issues, like the vast majority of customers
demand debit, and chip card credit cards that get swiped for transactions get
declined at very high rates because it's highly correlated with skim fraud)

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nealabq
Square's company motto: Don't be Oval.

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DigitalSea
Canada is nice and all, but what about us Australians? There is no alternative
payment provider to a bank other than using "Paypal Here" (which launched a
few months ago). Eftpos absolutely dominates retail transactions here, I think
a competitor needs to step up because my understanding is Eftpos fees are
quite high for a retailer here.

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tobyjsullivan
So far I've attempted two different forms to mail me a Square reader in Canada
and both failed.

The first (presented immediately after registering) required me to provide a
Zip code (and wouldn't accept a postal code) and the second (found through
account settings) allowed me to provide a postal code but required I select a
state (and only presented US states in a drop down).

Clear examples of common localization issues. Hope they get it sorted out so
maybe, one day, I could actually use Square in Canada...

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alanctgardner2
Embarrassingly, square.ca is rather... bare at the time of posting.

I am super excited for this, though. I have a number of friends who sell
artwork at various outdoor fairs, and I've inundated them with tales of how
much easier theirs lives would be if they could get a credit card reader for
their phone. It really reduces the friction involved in trying to make what is
essentially a several hundred dollar impulse purchase.

edit: Is it just me, or are all the thinks in the press release broken?
squareup.ca, square.ca, squareup.com/ca/ca/fr, none of these work.

~~~
jonhernandez
Seems to be up and working now. You can tell as the credit cards seem to be
limited to Visa/MC as opposed to the US version.

~~~
alanctgardner2
For me, square.ca goes to a small 'Search The Web' page still. As linked in
their press release.

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msbarnett
Stale DNS, most likely.

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mohamedattahri
Very very very poor french translation.

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madmath
Read through it, could not find any grammar mistakes. I think it's fine.

~~~
mohamedattahri
Grammar is not the problem. Hence the word "poor" and not "bad".

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jellicle
There's also Kudos:

<http://takekudos.com/>

which seems to do the same thing as Square. Anyone used both services and is
willing to compare them? Kudos seems to be slightly more expensive ($50 signup
+ higher swipe fees).

~~~
jordanvisco
"Paypal Here" should be here soon too.
<https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/credit-card-reader>

Also, there's <http://payfirma.com>

~~~
danudey
PayFirma is pretty pricey (and via Twitter I was told that they're 'aiming for
a different market' than Square). Intuit's Gopayment seems like a better
option for smaller businesses or craft fairs: <http://gopayment.intuit.ca/>

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nosecreek
What advantages does Stripe have over Intuit's GoPayment
(<http://www.gopayment.ca/Intuit>)? Intuit's rates are actually lower (albeit
by only .05%).

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togasystems
Anybody notice that www.square.ca has been hijacked? I have it redirecting to
a page with an iframe from areasnap.com . I have tested this on two different
networks near Vancouver.

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danudey
I thought they just had a broken website. Saw the same thing from home in
Vancouver this morning.

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mrknmc
Please, come to Europe.

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henrikschroder
<https://www.izettle.com/>

Might not be your parts of Europe, though. :-)

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seanmccann
Looks to only be Visa/MasterCard, not American Express. Any idea if Square is
looking to add Amex support in Canada?

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rohern
I chuckled a lot at this headline.

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oulipo
We want Square in France too!

