

Sony's new DRM (on Salt) crashes DVD players - cpswan
http://blog.thestateofme.com/2010/12/22/salt-i-want-my-dvd-player-back/

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noonespecial
Having lost not one but 2 dvd players to this nonsense, I've concluded that
dvd is a _transport_ medium, not a _playback_ medium. I never play a disc
directly. I always pull the VIDEO_TS directory with software that can handle
this junk and then play it over the network.

It makes the viewing experience so much better anyway. No forced ads, unpause-
able areas or stupid little "ghost buster" symbol in an upper corner when I
push the root menu button. It makes my remote give orders that are followed,
not suggestions in some sort of debate.

~~~
cpswan
I think part of this DRM scheme is to make the process that you describe fail.

~~~
noonespecial
That was no doubt their goal. But software on computers is much more easily
adapted to defeat these silly(1) methods than the DVD player under your TV.

The irony is not at all lost on me that in trying prevent piracy, they've made
it attractive to me (someone who would not ordinarily pirate) to do something
very much like piracy to protect my equipment and have a better consumer
experience. Thus I support the ecosystem of tools that they try hardest to
eradicate. A classic tale of unintended consequences.

(1) What they do is not DRM per-se (the battle for CSS was lost to them long
ago), but simply breaking the content structure of the DVD so that software
has a hard time following the program chains. If done wrong this can crash the
dvd players software, or worse, cause a kind of loop that can quickly damage
the physical hardware.

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tibbon
Isn't a DVD no longer meeting the standards of being a DVD if it doesn't play
on DVD players? I remember with CD's there was the Redbook standard which was
pretty exacting about how the CD was pressed. Is there no such thing for DVDs?

~~~
OpieCunningham
There is, it's available from the DVD FLLC. A Japanese firm where Sony is one
of about 10 shareholders.

But beyond perhaps some logo usage rules or guidelines, the existence of the
format spec isn't necessarily the word of god, so to speak.

Sony has been implementing intentional errors in their DVDs for many years. On
the one hand it likely has increased the annoyance factor in ripping those
DVDs and therefore somewhat decreased the prevalence of ripping, but on the
other hand you have cases like the OP where the standard use case is also
hindered to the level of annoyance.

~~~
burgerbrain
_"On the one hand it likely has increased the annoyance factor in ripping
those DVDs and therefore somewhat decreased the prevalence of ripping"_

Hahahaha... oh wait, you were serious. let me laugh harder. hahahahahahahahaha

Seriously though, every single movie released in recent years you can possibly
imagine has been ripped and uploaded. What exactly has decreased in
prevalence?

~~~
OpieCunningham
You're not really putting much thought into this are you?

Firstly, there's a difference between ripping a DVD and downloading a pirated
movie.

More importantly, DVD ripping is far, far from a mainstream activity as
evidenced by the tens of millions of DVDs that are still sold every quarter.
The reason it is not mainstream, like CD ripping is mainstream, is because of
DRM. Anti-DRM measures are not built into operating systems or the most
prevalent player applications. The studios regularly mount legal challenges,
many of which are successful, against application developers that do build in
anti-DRM measures. The result of all of this is that the vast majority of
users do not have the tools necessary to rip DVDs. For some portion of those
users who become inclined to try it, they can find a tool that does - and then
they can encounter Sonys ever evolving intentional error DRM strategy whereby
the tool the user has no longer functions and either needs to be updated
(assuming the often fly-by-night developer is still around) or replaced.
Effectively, the annoyance factor is increased enough to dissuade the casual
DVD ripping user from continuing with the activity.

Hence, intentional errors has increased the annoyance factor in ripping DVDs
and therefore somewhat decreased the prevalence of ripping.

~~~
burgerbrain
No, ripping DVDs isn't mainstream because it:

1) takes forever, and a powerful computer (particularly a handful of years
ago)

2) takes a lot of space

3) until recently has provided little of the value ripping CDs does (no "mp3
players" for movies)

4) is a nontrivial task for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with
DRM (which codec do you use? which container? what size to you transcode it
to?, etc)

Intentional errors don't cause even a hiccup in any of the ripping programs
I've seen or used, the end user doesn't have to worry about it in the
slightest.

Oh, and they press CDs with intentional errors these days too, so your theory
really is bogus.

~~~
nr0mx
The main difference between ripping DVDs and CDs is that music gets repeated
use, whereas the DVD typically doesn't - and hence require a much higher
incentive to overcome the DRM annoyance.

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mishmash
Recently bought my dad a Blu-ray player and some of the disks have a firmware
upgrade warning at the start of the disk. WTF is my dad supposed to do when he
eventually gets one of these disks?

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trotsky
How do you know there isn't a manufacturing error with the disc, or that your
dvd player hasn't gone bad? If you're really talking about a DVD and not a
bluray I'm surprised there is actually a way to add "new drm" to a disc.
Googling salt+drm only finds your blog discussing that movie - are you sure
this passes occam's razor?

~~~
OpieCunningham
It's common for some of the major studios to implement intentional errors -
DVD format spec errors that are designed to make copying disc data difficult
while not hindering playback. The efficacy of their plan is pretty
questionable, but they've been doing it for years, so at minimum it makes them
feel better.

~~~
corin_
Source?

edit: I'm not disagreeing, just asking for more information, why the downvotes
:/

~~~
cpswan
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARccOS_Protection>

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jawee
I tend to just buy a copy (that I keep unopened usually) and download a copy
from torrents if it´s DRM´d. That makes it much simpler for me, but I still
know I didn´t just steal it.

~~~
cpswan
Good luck with the AP2P thugs like ACS Law. When they send you a letter
demanding that you pay or be sued I'm sure it's fine to write back and tell
them that you bought the disc.

~~~
jawee
I guess the more important question is if my position can be justified
legally, not if claims/threats are going to be made against me.

~~~
OpieCunningham
IANAL. Though you may have some legal standing in purchasing a legally
distributed version of a movie and then downloading the same movie at the same
quality/resolution or lower, you probably have a legal issue with sharing that
movie at least as long as you are downloading it (as I believe most P2P apps
implement).

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drivebyacct2
What do they expect to do with this type of DRM? Prevent pirated copies? I
downloaded it in 720p two or three weeks ago. This DRM horse shit is going to
be bothering customers who paid for the disc for months or longer.

