
Why are Adults so busy? - bemmu
http://debarghyadas.com/writes/why-are-adults-so-busy/
======
anexprogrammer
Well this is clearly written by someone without committments and children.
Young adults _used_ to be having children.

With young kids around, the laundry and responsibility for dependents figures
become hours _daily,_ not weekly. When they're a bit older there's less
cleaning but now you're running them around more and ensuring they meet their
commitments.

With more gadgets, chemicals and domestic appliances we've just invented
higher standards and hundreds of new things to do. The to do list is 20x
longer, but each task takes less time.

Whilst we might not want to return to weekly bathing and keeping a room, only
for visitors, "for best" of Victorian times, some rebalance might be a good
idea. Might even turn out to be good for skin and gut bacteria and the rise of
eczema etc.

What we don't have, as it's been gadgeted away, is downtime. Kids, and many
adults, today can not cope with being bored (the normal state for kids in the
70s for perhaps an hour or two daily). I saw that very clearly with my own
kids and all their friends over the years. What used to be a trigger for
inventing a game, building a den, or making something new with lego is far
more filled with minutes on YT. More and more we've filled every second with
things to do - by "necessity" and by choice.

In trying to make life easier most of us no longer seem to have time (or often
inclination) to just chill watching the world go by for an hour a day.

Seems it all got too fragmented.

~~~
sapphireblue
I also wonder how we manage to stay busy given that most home tasks
(dishwashing, laundry, cleaning (roombas) and even cooking - see multicooker
devices) are already automated, with "doing laundry" meaning merely loading
and unloading the washing machine.

I think you have a good point about idle time being gadgeted away.

Also I think there is a tremendous potential in automation of physical labor
(including remaining daily tasks). I wonder how much more free time we would
have, if only 10% of workforce that currently does web/mobile/game apps
(including myself) would apply their skills to automating their daily life
with simple robots.

Also, imagine relatively cheap mass-produced robots that have embedded
computer vision and motion planning accessible via DOM-like API (with
javascript, of course), and what would millions of web developers do with
that, with their current javascript/DOM skills directly applicable to
manipulating the physical world. Does it sound too good to be true? I don't
know.

~~~
nradov
Dishwashers only save a little time. Most dishes still have to be rinsed in
the sink first or else the leftover food plugs up the machine. And then
putting away dishes takes just as much time.

Doing laundry is a lot more than loading and unloading. If you have small
children then you have to check everywhere for stains and apply something like
Spray 'n Wash first. And then folding takes a lot of time. (There is a folding
machine launching soon but it's expensive and might not be reliable
[https://www.foldimate.com/](https://www.foldimate.com/) .)

I've tried a couple of different Roombas. They simply don't work very well.
The rollers get tangled on rug fringes. They get stuck under furniture. The
suction is weak. They require frequent cleaning. In the end it's less hassle
just to use a regular vacuum.

~~~
jandrese
> Dishwashers only save a little time. Most dishes still have to be rinsed in
> the sink first or else the leftover food plugs up the machine. And then
> putting away dishes takes just as much time.

If this is the case your dishwasher sucks. Other than knocking big chunks
(bones, cobs, etc...) into the trash there's no need to pre-rinse dishes on a
competent machine.

I do agree that dishwashers don't save as much time as you would hope, but
they do help. Handwashing and drying is slow.

The laundry machine is absolutely faster than beating your clothes against the
washboard, but yes, it doesn't check for stains and it is still a big time
sink.

Roombas suck. No argument there. Vacuuming a room is actually pretty quick,
it's picking up all of the stuff first that takes forever when you have kids.

~~~
kwhitefoot
Drying takes no time for me because I don't do it. All the plates that are in
daily use are on a rack beside the sink.

------
thebigspacefuck
I keep catching myself thinking or using the excuse I have no time, but I
mostly spend my time on the internet or watching TV. Some nights I do the
dishes or actually go for a walk, go grocery shopping, but mostly I'm just
hanging on, making sure I'm ready for he next day. I'm freaking addicted to
information and the internet, which leave me feeling frantic. I forgo sleeping
for the internet and it brings me little pleasure. I wish I could stop, but
like this morning I was sitting on the couch with nothing to do and I had to
go get my phone which I've probably wasted 20 minutes on. It doesn't seem like
much time but I could have gone to get toilet paper from the store which I
sort of could use right now. I'd like to hear this lost from someone older,
who was in the 80s or 90s and hear their perspective. I know my parents at
least are hooked into the internet entertainment machine like I am and they
didn't use to be. Was there more time? Was it better?

~~~
pps43
> from someone older, who was in the 80s

There was the same amount of time, but it was allocated differently.

There were phone calls. If somebody calls you on the phone, you stop doing
what you're doing and talk to them.

Apart from that, time was scheduled in larger chunks, with fever context
switches. You watch a movie start to finish, not a bunch of 2 minute Youtube
videos. You spend an evening printing photos in the dark room rather than two
seconds on Instagram. You go to a chess club and play with somebody sitting
across the table.

So generally you do one thing at a time for longer stretches, and have to plan
those activities in advance.

~~~
patates
What wouldn't I give to have such attention span! I can't even watch a movie
these days (months? um, years?). Yesterday I alt-tabbed to chrome and opened
HN while hearing the movie that I was in the middle of watching. Yes, I have a
PC connected to my TV! What is wrong with me?!

I want to be able to read a non-technical book fully and I can't and I'm very
unhappy about this whole situation.

~~~
alvarosm
You can't focus on a task probably because they're all rubbish. The movie
you're watching is rubbish, the website on your chrome only mildly interesting
and HN the usual predictable progressive groupthink. They're all mildly
entertaining: not anywhere near interesting. Find something more interesting
and it will keep you hooked. Book suggestion btw,
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinker_Tailor_Soldier_Spy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinker_Tailor_Soldier_Spy)

~~~
slaunchwise
Good suggestion!

------
teekert
When I look at my 4 yr old son, what really strikes me is the way he lives in
the moment. He does not care about the future one single bit. He does what he
wants to do (or has to do) and that is his entire world at that moment. No
worries, no planning, no "I have to save some energy because I still have to
do X in 2 hours and then Y, and when am I finally going to finish Z?" He just
goes until he drops. When he comes home from a camping trip, which seemed
quite intensive, activity packed, he runs into the garden and starts to jump
on the trampoline. The he cries because he doesn't want to go to bed but is
asleep as soon as his head hits the pillow... Until he jumps out again to play
with his cars. There is only now.

I feel the answer is in there. Live more in the now and experience the
calmness, even though you may be just as busy as ever. Busyness is just a
label you put on your activities yourself. I'm sure my son does not understand
being busy and if he would he would label it as a positive feeling. Busyness
is a feeling caused by thinking of all the things you still have to do. Some
people feel it when they have to do shopping and cook on 1 day, some people
seem to never feel it even though they shop, cook, visit friends, work and do
sports on 1 day. It's very subjective and there are techniques (mindfulness?)
to feel it less than you do now.

~~~
joncrocks
To be fair, it's a lot easier to live in the moment when the planning is
someone else's responsibility, i.e. Your son can live in the moment because
you're the one buying the food, paying the bills

:-)

~~~
teekert
That is of course true, but do you have to think about the shopping now, when
you know you will do it at 20:00?

~~~
allengeorge
Well, to do it at 20:00 may involve a chain-reaction of related decisions that
affect your behavior "now".

\- When should I leave to get there by 20:00?

\- Can I do something else along the way?

\- What can I get done before then?

etc. etc.

~~~
teekert
But if you can manage to not think about it until say 19:50, you will feel
less busy. Working on your current task with 100% dedication, spending your
breaks looking out the window just watching the birds land on the branches of
the cherry tree will make you feel less busy, I guarantee it.

Edit: Not that I ever manage that myself of course but the theory is sound.

~~~
cperciva
I can't say that I'm perfect at this, but I've found that to-do lists are a
great way tool for helping me not think about things: Knowing that something
is on my list and so I won't forget about it allows me to push it out of my
head far more effectively.

~~~
TeMPOraL
I concur. I use todo lists aggressively and I've noticed that I often don't
remember most of the bullshit/errands I have to do, even on the same day but
e.g. after work. I rely on my todo list to remind me, and to inform me when
I'm making plans. My head feels much "lighter" than when I had to juggle all
responsibilities in it all the time.

That said, there's a caveat here - as they say, "out of sight, out of mind",
and I find it too easy to defend from being overworked by simply ignoring the
todo list and not looking at it. This is dangerous and leads to failed
obligations.

~~~
gglitch
Same. My todo list didn't start working until I started scheduling reminders
at fixed times to look at and process the list. I have just barely enough
willpower not to dismiss the reminder until I've processed the list.

------
kentt
Since the article didn't answer the question of why, I'll submit a partial
answer. People put a minimal value on their free time and so it gets sucked up
with things of minimal value.

One place I've noticed this in that placing a high value on my own time comes
off as self-important. As well, wondering why colleagues aren't placing a high
value on their time, leave me bewildered.

Just the other day, a friend was showing me how he was playing around with
React to create a calculator to show how much money he could save by getting
gas over the border. Since we're on a US/Canada border town, we can save 5-10
dollars by filling up over the border. He's made his calculator just to help
learn React. I asked him why he went to the US to get gas and he told me it
was to save money. $5! It makes the 5 min job of getting gas into a 30 min
chore. He's a freelancer which I think my company pays around ~100/hr. He
doesn't think this is strange and no one else who was listening did.

~~~
k-mcgrady
He could be getting other benefits he values more than $50 doing that 30 min
drive. You assume it's a 'chore' but he may enjoy the drive and peace and
quiet away from the family (or just some time out of the house).

~~~
FT_intern
it's most likely the high of getting a good deal that bargain shoppers love

------
the-dude
I have scaled back years ago: ditched the car ( does away with a whole class
of problems/bills ). When I had a job no more than 32hrs. No TV, no cable. Do
my groceries in combination with going the postal office, while
biking/walking. I rent, do not own. Try to own as little as possible.

I call it the 'small life'. Lots of people in town know me, I know them, build
a pretty social life.

I am not going back.

~~~
ianai
I'd love that life style but I have to work.

~~~
allendoerfer
You would love less, but you have to work, because you have more?

------
sagischwarz
The numbers seemed very high to me so I created a list on my own and thought
I'd share it (single, no kids, full time job).

1\. Work: 40 hours

2\. Cooking: 3 h (who the hell cooks three times a day?)

3\. Laundry: 0.5 h (once a week)

4\. Cleaning: 1 h (and I am _very_ clean, I just avoid producing dirt)

5\. Buying stuff: .5 h (I try to avoid buying too much stuff I don't really
need)

6\. Bills: 0 h (they a are paid automatically from my account)

7\. Small errands: 1 h

8\. Transport: 4 h (I ride my bicycle to work, so one could count that as
exercise)

9\. Staying healthy: 4 h (in addition to the bicycling to and from work)

10\. Finances: 0 h (I have no idea how anyone can spend so much time on this.
I just live by the simple rule: don't get into debt and move some of your
income automatically on a saving account)

11\. Taxes: 0 h (automated in Germany)

12\. Responsibility for Yourself: 0 h (weird point)

13\. Responsibility for your dependents: 0 h (I'm not responsible for anyone
and visiting my family is fun)

14\. Being sick: 0 h

15\. One time errands: 2 h (I have to do some irregular stuff)

16\. Long term planning: 1h (because I'm actively thinking about it at the
moment)

1\. Attire and Grooming: 3.5 h (half an hour every morning, 3 minutes in the
evening)

2\. Sleep: 49 h

3\. Eating: 1.5 h (breakfast and lunch is included in work time)

Overall: 109 h

Free time: 49 h

I think it all comes down to priorities and you current life situation. But
one can influence most of these things and you have to decide what is really
important in your life. For me, it's free time.

~~~
geezerjay
> 2\. Cooking: 3 h (who the hell cooks three times a day?)

People who enjoy cooking, and people who actually care for their health.

~~~
sagischwarz
I think the meals I have are quite healthy, I just cook once a day. Also, if
you enjoy cooking, wouldn't you add it to the free time because it's a hobby?

~~~
edu
This! When I cook for fun (i.e. friends) I wouldn't count it as a chore, and
the daily meals either I do big batches of stuff and freeze them (i.e. this
sunday I cooked about 1kg of bolognese sauce that's now frozen in 1 servings)
or I cook something that doesn't really take more than 20-30 minutes of active
cooking.

------
ericdykstra
"I'm busy" is really just an excuse for not taking productive action. You know
all those people you look up to that seem to be 10 times more productive than
you? Whether it's Elon Musk running multiple blue ocean companies while being
a technological innovator or Richard Branson leading over 400 companies, or
whoever it might be, they all have the same 24 hours that you do. In the end
it's up to you whether you find ways to make the most out of your time or just
repeat the same tasks every day.

It took me a long time to realize this, but it finally clicked for me fairly
recently. Record everything you do for a day, figure out which are of low or
no value, and figure out how to get rid of them, create systems to reduce the
time you spend on them, or delegate them. The most time-consuming things often
can't be totally cut out, but they can be systemized or delegated. In the end,
only you control your time (and if you don't, you have a bigger problem).

Edit: If anyone is interested in the resources I've found helpful in this
realization and the implementation of taking actions to take back control of
my own time, feel free to send me an email (in profile).

~~~
carrier_lost
"The most time-consuming things often can't be totally cut out, but they can
be systemized or delegated."

This is a big part of it, and it makes the comparison between Musk or Branson
and an average Joe a bit disingenuous. They have the wealth afford to delegate
many things that consume an average person's time. I doubt Musk does his own
grocery shopping, and Branson likely doesn't scrub his own toilets.

~~~
ericdykstra
It's hard to come up with examples without choosing people with wealth, since
people who excel at time management become wealthy. It starts with good time
management techniques, which leads to wealth, which leads to the ability to
delegate the low and no-value parts of your life.

Let's say someone with bad time management goes to the grocery store every
day, and the nearest one is a 10 minute drive away. They spend at minimum 45
minutes going to and from the grocery store, choosing food, waiting in
checkout lines etc every day. That's over 5 hours per week! Musk spends 0
hours. But it's not all or nothing. Instead, a 30 minute investment of
planning out a general meal schedule and grocery list for it on Sunday, and
one trip to the grocery store might take an hour and a half. That's 3.5 hours
of savings per week!

Repeat this for cooking, cleaning around the house, etc, and I guarantee you
can find significant time savings in systemizing routines. If you save even 2
hours every week, that's an entire 8 hour work day per month. If you make,
let's say, $300 daily as a software engineer that's quite a bit of savings!
Even... maybe enough to hire a house cleaner and someone to do grocery
shopping for you.

------
jbb555
A lot of my time is 'wasted' by recovering from work. I have a nice physically
easy programming job. But it's quite a lot of hours, and there is travel on
top of that. But when I get home I need to spend at least an hour basically
going 'ughhhhh' and just doing nothing much. It's necessary, but eats so much
time.

~~~
bryanlarsen
What's your commute like? Can you arrange things to combine commute and de-
stress time?

In my experience the best way to de stress is to walk, but that's obviously
not feasible for most. It's worth moving to make it possible, in my opinion.

Mass transit is pretty awesome too. Even if it takes longer, you can plug in
your headphones and zone, netflix and chill, or best of all, take a nap.

Biking in urban areas can be pretty stressful, but the exercise it provides is
pretty effective at helping the body recover from stress.

~~~
Jaruzel
I'm not sure 'netflix and _chill_ ' is allowed on mass transit to be honest...

~~~
bryanlarsen
I didn't realize that was a euphemism. I guess I'm getting old. It seems
obvious in retrospect.

Mass transit would be much more appealing if you could, though!

~~~
beachstartup
it is, and it isn't. depends on context. i don't think op meant it, but the
replier made a joke of it, which turned it sexual.

------
lucaspiller
I'm going to go against the norm: I recently bought my first car (I'm nearly
30) and am amazed how much time it saves and freedom it gives me. I've always
lived in European cities with good public transport, but even here having a
car is worthwhile.

Instead of taking a train and bus 30+ minutes to work, I leave when I want and
know it will take me around 15 minutes to get there. Maybe I'm weird, but I
find driving a lot more relaxing than public transport (at the moment it's
really hot here so AC helps). If I want to get groceries I can stop in a
supermarket on my way home from work, instead of walking 15 minutes each way
(bonus: it also has a bigger selection and cheaper prices).

If I want to get out of the city it's easy, I can drive for 20 minutes instead
of taking trains and buses for 1 1/2 hours and I'm at the sea. Before if I
wanted to do that I'd book a car from a rental place, go collect it, return it
hoping I didn't get any scratches, where as now I can be spontaneous.

Having a car can be expensive (I estimate over the life of my car it'll cost
me around €2000/year + fuel) but for the benefits it provides, to me that is a
justifiable cost.

~~~
dangravell
I've got to say I've had the opposite experience, moving from London to rural
England, where a car is necessary to have any sort of flexibility (to go to
work, shop, take kids to nursery etc).

I'm learning to hate cars. The damn things are a time sink. In the UK we have
to take cars for MOT each year and generally we service once a year. That's
two half days gone, but I try to make best use of the time by working in a
coffee shop while it happens.

Then there are the unforeseen things. Door locks breaking. Tyre replacements.
Punctures. Remembering to top up the air in the tyres. Washing them (I pay for
someone to do this, but it's still something on your mind). Replacing wipers.
And the wiper fluid of course. Checking oil and tyre pressure.

Just the sheer time I spend in petrol stations. Why aren't all petrol stations
self pay? I try to avoid ones where I have to go into a shop but it's not
always possible.

Insurance. Oh great, the yearly "you raised my premium 10% but I can see I can
get it cheaper online" phone call. I resent having to make this.

And then there's the cost.

Sorry, that turned into a rant.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
If you actually use the thing regularly it more than makes up for itself. You
say it's "necessary" but what you mean is that it's the best available option
by such a large amount that no other option is worth considering.

You could hire a chauffeur and make him take the car for MOT and everything
else but that's so much more expensive that you don't consider it an option.
You could get a bike and put some milk crates on the back but that's so much
less effective you don't consider it an option.

There's very few true necessities. A lot of resources can be saved if you
manage to identify a "necessity" that you can work around by leveraging
specific aspects of your situation.

~~~
dangravell
All true. In our case we "leverage specific aspects of our situation" (nice ;)
) by only having one car because I work at home. If we had two the above might
be doubled!

------
mholmes680
I think one thing here was missed: managing [successful] relationships.

I have 2 kids - i have to directly manage a relationship with my wife, with
each kid, with both kids, and with my wife and both kids. She has to do the
same. I have to indirectly manage a relationship between the two kids, and
with the wife and both/each kids.

To do it right would mean breaking up those 10 free hours I might have into
each of the above.

~~~
zaroth
The OP clearly doesn't have kids for how glossed over the point is. Amazing
that they come up with just 10 spare hours a week without even really
factoring kids into the equation.

For those of us who have kids, you just sit back some days and wonder... How
little we recognized at the time, the sheer freedom of being able to just head
out for dinner or a drink any day of the week, plop down and watch whatever
movie we wanted, sleep in on the weekends, etc.

OP does acknowledge the workload of having children is "indefinite" but
doesn't really do justice to the reality of raising children.

The funny thing is how that theoretical 10 hours per week of free time will
somehow make way for the ~40 hours per week spent on the children. Shopping
for new shirts because they don't excite you anymore? Yeah, parents ain't got
time for that BS!

~~~
kale
Nothing can prepare you for the "crap I can't do anything spontaneous now"
like having children. I recently had to let tickets to a concert go (that I
was really looking forward to) because the babysitter had a family emergency.

And this is a deep confession that I've never really told anyone: I envy my
divorced friends with kids. Every other week they (usually) are child free.
And get to do things like mow grass, have a dinner with an SO at a place that
doesn't have a built-in playground, or go on weekend trips on a whim. That
guaranteed time without children that you get from custody agreements has a
ton of perks. I won't admit this out loud, though.

~~~
VLM
"I won't admit this out loud, though."

You should give it a try, my wife and I get occasional nights and weekends
off, its pretty nice. Also we live in an area with an active city parks and
rec, and we have a childless date night with each other this very Friday
night, I don't even know what parks and rec class my wife signed the kids up
for (probably the fall kickball tournament, the Halloween party is next
month). We also send them to day camps a couple times each summer so we have
some married adult time while the kids are theoretically getting exercised,
educated, and socialized.

My experience is "For profit" camps tend to charge what the market will bear
($$$$$) and always have openings. Parks and rec charge what it actually costs
to provide the activity (maybe $20/day/kid?) but reservation slots fill up
fast every year.

~~~
dota_fanatic
What you're describing and what the parent described seems very different to
me. Not only does "every other week off" vs "occasional nights and weekends
off" have an obvious quantitative difference, it has a very strong qualitative
difference.

1 day off to every 5 on or 2 to 10 is a very different pattern than 7 to 7
consistently until they're grown and hopefully self-sustaining.

------
morgante
Actually, I have found that my (young) adult life is the best time of my life
and I have a giant excess of free time.

I'm very lucky to be able to command a high hourly rate for software
consulting. So I can work <40 hours a week and still earn enough to outsource
90% of the items on this list (cooking, cleaning, etc.). I definitely have way
more free time now than I ever did as a student.

Seriously, people always act as though students have an easy life. In my
experience, I was much busier and less happy when I was in college. Not to
mention that real work is, for me, much more meaningful than the fake work
which constitutes most "education."

Also, technology really has reduced a lot of these time demands. If you're
still manually paying bills or balancing your finances, you really need to
automate that. There's no reason to spend more than 15 minutes a week on that
sort of thing.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
The people who act like students have an easy life are the students who
partied their way through a psych degree and are stuck cleaning up the mess
after the fact.

The people who work their butt off in college (by some combination of working
while going to school and going all out in a difficult major) usually have an
increase in free time once they're only working 40 or 50hr per week and not
bringing their work home every day.

------
6DM
Bills are a once a month thing, I rent so maybe it's different but my student
loans should make up for that. In total? 15 minutes tops.

I dry clean my clothes myself, so yeah I agree clothes _can_ take up to 2 hrs.
But picking out what to wear and polishing your shoes shouldn't count as an
extra 10.5 hours a week.

Most people enjoy buying stuff, especially if it requires research because
then they get psyched about it. Who doesn't like a new car? Other than that,
it should be pretty rare to need to research for window cleaning products. You
just buy what looks alright on the shelf and if it sucks don't buy it again.

The rest I'll agree with. Most people I see that "waste" their time are doing
things like, marathoning Game of Thrones, drinking or celebrating something.

Here are some real wastes:

    
    
      - Going after companies to get your money back for either incorrectly or over charging you, or charging you for services not rendered. 
      - "Market forces" raising prices, causing you to move right freaking next door so your rent can stay the same, or even lower. 
      - How about those Dr. appointments that you scheduled, only so you can wait an extra hour to actually be seen. 
      - Warranty covered oil changes that take an hour or even two (last time it happened to me). 
      - Standing in a 40 minute long line at the store because despite having 30 register's, they only have 2 cashiers. There is self checkout but of course it's already full of people struggling to understand how the machine works, or they're just generally slow moving.
      - Holiday traffic/parking, where do all these vehicles come from? Even small towns get congested it's a real mystery to me.
      - Spontaneously waking up in the middle of the night for a few hours, then oversleeping the next morning. Also, you need to go to bed early now to make it up.
      - Paperwork for just about any government related activity. I just listed my SSN on three different pages why do I still have to fill this in again?
    

I'm sure there are more I'm not thinking of...

~~~
kragen
What solvent do you use for the dry-cleaning? In my comment I said that dry-
cleaning is too dangerous to not outsource, but I'm happy to change my opinion
if I'm wrong.

BTW, if you want to reformat your list so it can be read without scrolling
left and right for each line, you can use a · on each item, leave a blank line
between them, and not indent it. The typography sucks but not quite as bad as
what you have now.

------
wccrawford
I've got a different answer.

People are "busy" because they fill every waking hour with something to do. If
they ever find themselves without something to do, they make something up or
change something so it provides some perceived benefit and takes more time.

For example, I dated a girl who said she had no free time, despite only
working 1 job part time and basically never going out. I eventually found out
it was because she'd do things like walk go to the grocery store for fresh
food _every single day_. And then complain that she didn't have enough time to
spend with her son.

I'm not blaming her. It's her choice, and there's nothing wrong with it.

But that incident made me look at my own life and I realized that any time I
could possibly be bored, I'd find _something_ do to. For me, it was usually
something fun in the name of de-stressing. If I ever managed to get bored with
everything I had, I'd pick up a new hobby. I now have far, far too many
hobbies to actually do much of any one of them, and I switch between them as I
get bored.

As I look around, I see others doing this as well. The idea of simply sitting
and getting bored is basically impossible. At the worst, there's always cable
TV or Netflix or something, and shows you just _have_ to watch.

It's quite fascinating once you can look in on it from the outside.

~~~
TeMPOraL
I think there are different types of people. Personally, I always have more
things I'd like to do - much more interesting than job, errands, family time,
etc. - than time for them. So I wouldn't e.g. go for fresh food to a store
every day (other than as a part of the commute, or during lunch break at
work), because I need the time for something else (like doing a home
automation project, or playing a video game).

So I guess some people may be "busy" by inventing activities to avoid boredom
(I'm pretty sure I know a lot of people like that), but others would love to
have more free time to spend it on even more things they're already interested
in.

~~~
wccrawford
Oh, I totally understand that. I'm not saying that there aren't people who are
legit busy all the time, just that people who aren't will invent ways to end
up with no time left and feel like they need more, even though they are
deliberately wasting time.

Note that I'm also not saying that people's priorities aren't differently or
that any of them are _wrong_.

To re-use my example, having fresh vegetables every day is awesome, it's just
that going to the supermarket for them every single day is a waste of time.
Even every other day is a huge improvement and doesn't result in the
vegetables being any worse off. That 30-60 minutes saved every second day
could have been spent with her son instead, as she clearly desires. But
something in her mind kept her in the same cycle, "busy" all the time.

------
return0
Free time is a dangerous thing, so urban adults must be kept entertained
during their free time.

------
TeMPOraL
I never realized how much free time I had until I started blowing my
responsibilities off and watching TV series or playing video games.

The point is, a lot of the things we do in our adult lives are bullshit
errands that exist only because of habit, custom or societal expectations. I'm
in progress of trying to get rid of as much of them as possible (and automate
others), to reclaim some free time for actually productive endeavours.

~~~
matwood
This is a good point. For example, I hate going to the grocery store. Buying
good food to cook for a night is fun, but the general grocery shopping is a
horrible experience. A combination of Amazon Subscribe and Save, Pantry, and
services like Blue Apron mean I rarely go to the store. And things like
subscribe and save mean I never have to think about when I'm out of toilet
paper, it just shows up on a schedule which I have figured out now.

~~~
VLM
I peapodded for a couple years when my kids were very small and ultra-high
labor, but I found the ability to micromanage my delivery made me spend about
as much time on their website as I used to spend shopping (omg hold on while I
google ten pages about how many oz of fresh blueberries I need to buy to make
exactly 1/2 crushed cup whereas at the store I'd rely on my finely honed
nearly instant engineering estimation ability). So if my daughter needs a box
of raisins for snack time at school and there's 6 days until delivery and 2
are a weekend and there's 8 on the shelf and the next delivery is the 22nd
then I need to buy how many packs of raisins? Whereas in the store I'd just
buy one week sized pack per week until there's a backlog and then skip a week
which is a much simpler algorithm.

Also I like hiking but lets get real sometimes the weather sux or its dark out
or the air is clouded with bugs... and the supermarket is well lit, flat,
hvac, bug free, sometimes I just need to put a couple thousand steps on the
ole step counter...

I am also an amazon S+S user like yourself and a HUGE gripe I have is UPC
churn. So I subscribe to three gigantic mouthwash bottles delivered every six
months and like clockwork each time that rolls around the UPC has been
cancelled/discontinued and I need to shop a fresh for something inflation
adjusted to be 1.5 oz smaller for their profit or whatever. I would like to
S+S to a more generic product/service like ship me qty three of two month
sized (enormous) mouthwash bottles twice a year of minty fluoride freshness
and I don't care the exact brand or the exact size to the mL.

~~~
matwood
Good point on the Amazon S+S. I have had that happen a few times and it's
annoying. I wish more products were Amazon Basics. Those rarely change. We get
basics baby wipes for our dogs (don't ask), and I'm pretty sure they have
never changed since I set it up almost a year ago.

The labor part is also a good point. I used to order groceries online and pick
them up and found it easier to just go to the store. Only when I got S+S
setup, and started using services like Blue Apron was I finally out of the
labor of managing a delivery. I still go to the store every week or so, but
it's to grab fruit, milk, and soda. I'm in and out in just a few minutes
depending on when I go.

------
ZoeZoeBee
Dirty Little Secret, They're not. The Average American Adult Spends 5.5 hrs a
day watching video content, this adds up to 38.5 hrs a week. Allowing for 8
hrs of sleep a day, an average of 47 hrs a week working for a full time worker
and you're left with 26.5 hrs to fulfill the requirements of adulthood listed
in the article. The only mention of TV/media viewing came by way of the time
spent to purchase one, never a mention of the amount of time spent on one.
[http://www.emarketer.com/Article/US-Adults-Spend-55-Hours-
wi...](http://www.emarketer.com/Article/US-Adults-Spend-55-Hours-with-Video-
Content-Each-Day/1012362)

You're not busy if you're watching a day and a half's worth of television
every week. It's one of my pet peeves to hear people say their busy when so
much time is devoted to a mindless activity.

Imagine what could be accomplished if instead of turning on and tuning out,
people choose to devote that time to side projects, gardening, some other
creative hobby, or time spent enjoying nature and each others company.

------
sqren
Maybe this should be worded: Why are American adults so busy.

I've been living in the US for a couple of years, and have thoroughly enjoyed
it, but it occurs to me that life is more "rushed" than I'm used to from
Denmark.

RE: 1) Have Money

The standard work week is 37 hours. I love my job, but this leaves me plenty
of time to do other stuff I enjoy.

RE: 6) Bills, Bills, Bills

Living in the US for a couple of years taught me this: cheques are a real
thing and most payment processes are manual. Denmark: I no longer receive
bills. The banking infrastructure allow consumers to "subscribe" to
businesses, who can then withdraw the correct amount. If the amount increases
the consumer won't have to change a thing. And it is easy to unsubscribe again
:)

RE: 8) Transport + 9) Staying Healthy

Get a bike and combine commuting with exercise ;)

RE: 11) Taxes

Paying taxes in the US is A PAIN. Ordinary people need to hire an accountant
(and still do most of the grunt work themselves) to make sure they pay the
right amount. Denmark: fully automated system. Yes, the government has access
to my bank account and investments (!privacy!), but my only tax-related action
is to click "Accept" once a year.

~~~
maxsilver
>RE6: The banking infrastructure allow consumers to "subscribe" to businesses

We have this in the US (almost all businesses have an 'Automatic Bill Pay' or
similar)

But businesses are very routinely "slightly-corrupt" here, so many don't trust
it. Businesses will purposefully withdraw more than they should, and make you
fight to get it back. Or will raise prices without telling you. Or will
continue to bill you after you unsubscribe (if they let you unsubscribe at
all).

Often you have to yell or make threats to people on telephones, or publicly
harass a company on Twitter / Facebook, or manually withhold payment, to get
any kind of appropriate response.

This creates an atmosphere where people don't trust businesses with
"subscriptions" or automation of any kind of bills. Which further perpetuates
the antique cheque-based bill payment process. It's not a technology problem
(we have the technology). It's more of a "poisoned trust" issue.

> RE: 11) my only tax-related action is to click "Accept" once a year.

We have this in the US -- the IRS is already capable of offering this. It's
just illegal for them to do so, because of Intuit's political influence.
(Again with the businesses being corrupt...)

[http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/16/technology/personaltech/tu...](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/16/technology/personaltech/turbotax-
or-irs-as-tax-preparer-intuit-has-a-favorite.html)

~~~
johnward
Yep. I have the ability to have most of my bills automatically deducted but I
don't trust those institutes enough to allow them to do it. If one of them
bills me for an incorrect amount, which happens more often than it should, it
could cause me to overdraft or not be able to pay my other bills.

It still takes me about 30 minutes at most to electronically pay every bill
that will take it and balance my account.

------
ChuckMcM
That was fun, we had a similar sort of discussion with our kids as they were
growing up. My eldest was especially anxious to get to the level 'adult' and
start her life. It wasn't everything she hoped it would be.

I think its easy to pick apart the specific numbers but it is also a good way
to think about how you want to spend your time vs how you do by default. And
that will let you make decisions about optimizations and time/money trade
offs. For example you can just eat Soylent and not cook at all (not a good
tradeoff in my opinion) or automate bill paying and bill management. Living in
a place without lawn care requirements vs living with some amount of garden.

It also points out why married people (and people in committed relationships)
have "more" free time as many of these jobs can be done for 2 people in the
domicile in the same time as 1 person. So you can split them up and complete
them in parallel, freeing up time.

------
jefe_
Wash & Fold Laundromat changed my life. Am able to eliminate a massive chore
for $17-22 per week. Every Tuesday on my way to work, I drop off my clothes
and on the way back, I pick up my clothes, hung and folded as if they were
brand new. I was never able to achieve the level of consistency with a laundry
schedule when I did it myself.

------
atemerev
Being rich and never having to work except on something you really want to do
is worth achieving mostly because of this. I don't really care about material
things, and I love my job, but being free to do anything I want is liberating.

~~~
z3t4
This also leads to breakthroughs like tools, agriculture, figuring out the
planet is round, math, philosophy, physics etc. Most people would just party
though.

------
amelius
I'm wondering why, with all the technological progress, we don't have 8 hour
work-weeks just yet :)

~~~
bnegreve
Yes, good question. I think this is because nowadays, work is mostly a way to
skew wealth distribution in your favor. Therefore people that can work more,
_do_ work more. That contributes to make them wealthier. The others, are
unemployed.

~~~
FilterSweep
I believe your last two sentences hit the full truth.

The real answer, _individual consultants, and self-run people aside_ , is that
if you DONT work more (to employers standard), you _become_ unemployed.

------
kriro
"Take us through a typical work day for you/your cofounder".

"Well for four to six hours we do X,Y,Z very focused and intensely and then we
rest and think subconsciously/do nothing".

"Wait you mean you're only doing this halftime?"

"No we chose to do it this way because there's some decent research that
suggests this is both the most efficient way of doing it and the most healthy
way of doing it. It's a full time job."

"Ok, thanks."

------
blowski
There was a very good radio programme on BBC Radio 4 about busyness:

[http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07v07pb](http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07v07pb)

In a nutshell, we're busy because people value things based on the perceived
effort that goes into them. This is why people are frustrated if it takes you
1 minute to update their website but still want £100. So if you appear to be
very busy, you appear to be putting more effort into your work. The same
applies to parenting - we think busy parents are perceived as better parents.
At least, that's the argument made in the programme.

------
knorker
Much of this doesn't apply to me, but mostly because I've been implicitly
trying to avoid it.

I don't do my taxes because I can buy an accountants time, but I can't buy
more "time".

It's another reason I don't want a huge collection of "stuff". "Stuff" takes
your time.

I don't have a car for this reason, and I live in a city that doesn't require
one.

But the article is motivating me to be more explicit about the things that
take time. To make sure I spend that time doing what I want.

Also
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3JzcCviNDk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3JzcCviNDk)

~~~
douche
This is my single biggest justification for not doing my own laundry. I've run
experiments.

If I take my laundry to a laundromat, run it through the washer, move it to
the drier, (run it through the drier again because it isn't dry), fold and put
it all away, it costs me about $12 in quarters. It also costs me two or three
hours of time, where I'm pretty much stuck at the laundromat, unable to do
anything really worthwhile.

If I drop the laundry off at the laundromat and have them do it for me, that
wash-dry-fold service usually costs about $30. I toss it in a bag, stop at the
laundromat on the way to work, then on the way home that night I stop in again
and pick up bags of fresh, nicely folded laundry, with all my shirts on
hangers. It's so much easier, and trading a little bit of money for time not
spent doing something tedious is a big win.

~~~
knorker
I rent, but when I moved in I still paid to replace the washer with a washer-
dryer. I spend less than 5 minutes a month on washing clothes. (I have
multiple laundry baskets so they're pre-sorted)

If something needs ironing I either don't buy it in the first place, or I have
it dry cleaned just to get in ironed.

------
DropbearRob
I save a solid 10.5 hours a week.. that grooming nonsense is for public facing
human resources and not a cave dwelling engineer like me.. just put me in
front of a computer in a dark room or in the lab with a bunch of hardware
leave that grooming shit to the sales force.

------
brohoolio
Family.

Let me give you one example. Birthdays. My wife has two sisters and both
parents are alive. That's 5 events a year. Double that for my family. 10
events a year. That's basically once a month I'm spending a weekend afternoon
or evening. That's just birthdays.

Add kids in and suddenly every other weekend is filled with something. That
isn't including extended family.

------
Xcelerate
As someone who just finished grad school, I'm preparing my future for "minimum
maintenance" so that way I can have lots of free time for interesting
projects. Shopping, cleaning, commuting, and house maintenance are not on my
list of interesting projects, so I would like to minimize the time spent doing
these things.

* Shopping — Don't shop, except for the necessities (and when you need them, buy in bulk). I generally feel like having _stuff_ adds stress to my life. My girlfriend and I once had a somewhat humorous argument over whether a kitchen table is really a "need".

* House maintenance — I'll probably rent apartments as long as I can get away with it, but because all of the best high schools are usually in the suburbs, I imagine I'll need a house once I have kids. It will be a small house, but well built. Poured from concrete so I don't have to worry about weather and tornados (most American houses are made from cheap wood). No wallpaper — that stuff gums up all of the time and is a pain to clean. No carpet or wood — carpet is a grime magnet and wood gets scuffed up. I'll use large tiles on my floors (or at least those ceramic tiles that look like wood). I'll have a tiny yard. If I have to mow, I don't want it to take more than five minutes.

* Commuting — After the initial years of my career, I want a job that requires a commute no longer than 10-15 minutes. Living near a city center or finding a remote job are both solutions to this. My brother-in-law drives 3 hours a day for his job; I can't imagine giving away that much of my time.

The key to having more time is to try to think about how every decision you
make might cost time in the future. Granted, many people may not be able to
make free time because of circumstances beyond their control, but I think
these tips and this kind of thought process can at least help a little bit.

~~~
BlackFly
I compared my own hours to the ones in the article. I end up with 40 spare
hours a week. That feels correct: I have a lot of spare time.

I work 40 hours a week (arrive at 9, leave at 6, with 1 hour for
cooking/eating). I am married and it seems that my wife and I evenly split the
work between cooking (me) and cleaning (mostly her). We buy groceries together
every second day and take about 30 minutes to do so. I spend absolutely no
time managing my bills as they are automated and nobody has credit card debt
in Europe. I have very few errands. I bike to work for a grand total of 1.7
hours a week which I count as fitness. I go to the gym 3 times a week for a
total of about 4.5 hours. We have no children and that is a life decision. I
don't spend more than an hour each day grooming/dressing, nor does my wife,
what is the author doing? Yes, I sleep 8 hours a day and spend about 10.5
hours eating.

Now, where does the difference come? Well if I worked 60 hours a week I would
lose half of my free time, but overworking is really silly. The difference in
commute alone gives me nearly an hour a day of extra time to myself compared
to the author. Also, if you can enjoy cooking, that is time that is
productively spent. So learn to enjoy cooking. You should be enjoying your
meals too, so thinking of those hours as cost is a bit sad.

------
tonyedgecombe
If you look deeply it's surprising how much of that list is self inflicted.

~~~
worldsayshi
How? What can you realistically avoid? (edit: or rather, what do you mean?)

~~~
kragen
I commented on this at
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12503198](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12503198).

------
EGreg
Think of it a different way. We fill up our time, subconsciusly, to avoid the
existential angst. Especially if you are an atheist.

Many religious people find time to pray three times a day and still be very
productive.

Today, corporations have happily made this situation they own your time for 8
hours a day and you are afraid to lose your steady paycheck, so in many jobs,
you pretend to work those 8 hours, refuse to build anything of value for
yourself or others for fear of getting fired. It is a bit of an infantile
mentality that's conditioned for 40 hours a week. Sweden has just moved to a
6-hour day!

In the past, people didn't have netflix or facebook. You'd see photos of
people chilling outside, and in real life. More people were out. Playing
sports etc. That's not on your list!

------
sgentle
Interesting to contrast this with articles that paint the various
delivery/cooking/cleaning/task runner services as a kind of mom-in-a-box that
real adults shouldn't need.

Maybe being a real adult is an unwise investment of time if you can afford to
do without it.

~~~
ghaff
There's a reasonable middle ground (that will differ by person). I spend very
little time on bills--direct payment in most cases. I have a housecleaner who
comes every few weeks to keep things at least vaguely under control. I have a
lawn service. I use Amazon Prime which eliminates lots of little errands. That
said, I don't go crazy with all the Internet task services, most of which seem
like more trouble than they're worth and most aren't even available where I
live.

------
kbart
Most of tasks are exaggerated or poorly managed. I do all the mentioned stuff,
get a good night sleep (7-8 h), plus studying for master's degree and still
have time for my hobbies and friends. Time management is a critical skill to
learn while being adult.

------
ausjke
I read the list, to my surprise it mentioned nothing about raising kids, which
took away 40%+ of my daily energy averagely and is the sole/main reason I feel
busy, not to mention all the arguments and emotional stress etc you have to
deal with daily.

------
mooreds
Automate all the things!

If you are spending an hour a week tracking bills, or even 1/2 hour, you
aren't taking advantage of your bank. We set up auto bill pay whenever we can.
I prefer to have it through my bank or my credit card rather than through the
service provider doing EFT, because it's easier to shut off and it centralizes
the view.

That doesn't mean you can totally put this task on autopilot, just that
automation can make sure you don't have late fees and that you don't spend
money on stamps.

~~~
johnward
I don't want autopay from my bank account. Automatically paying with a CC is
ideal and then just making one payment to CC. Then you can dispute if you are
billed the incorrect amount. I don't think my power bill, for example, will
take credit. Plus is fluctuates from $400-$800 a month so I like to see how
much it is before I pay.

------
hellofunk
Title should be "Why are American adults so busy?"

Once you leave the U.S. and live in other nations for a while, in some of
those you will quickly realize that the ideas and observations in this article
are so clearly Americanized. Life doesn't have to be the way it is described
here, and without giving up any contributions to the world or standard of
living.

------
kevin_thibedeau
The average American watches more than four hours of television a day. That's
where a good chunk of the time goes.

------
kelukelugames
One of the perks of being an engineer is I can spend less on my attire and
grooming.

I shave once every two weeks. Most of the time I have a scruffy patchy beard.
I love being lazy. The downside is I'm perpetuating a bad stereotype. Perhaps
engineers would have higher social status if we dressed the part.

------
zerr
> you're working a 40 hour a week job but the rest should

What rest?

~~~
thecatspaw
128 non-working hours

~~~
zerr
It doesn't quite work that way.

------
truebosko
I'm busy because I work 60 hours a week so I can ensure my family has what
they need as we grow.

My mentality, and I hope I don't break away from this (and continue down a
spiral of working too much) is to gradually reduce my workload as my son gets
older. Right now he's a tiny baby who I can support by ensuring I help with
feedings and care so my partner can be happy as well. That's easy, and I can
focus on boosting my career in the mean time. It helps he goes to bed at 7pm,
so I am able to catch up on work after hours. It's not ideal, but it's the
reality right now. To achieve what we want as a family.

Once he's older, I want to be able to spend actual daddy time and interact
with him in a meaningful way. That's the goal, at least.

~~~
vitro
Kids form their base behaviour and approach to the world until three years
old, this is the most important time.

~~~
truebosko
For sure. I'm not neglecting my child at all, at least like to think I am not
:) When he is awake in the mornings and evenings, we spend ample time. Of
course, weekends are a great time together as well.

Didn't mean to make my comment sound like I am neglecting my child, but I
could see how it could be perceived that way!

------
mwfunk
"Surely adults were doing something wrong if they were never bored."

FWIW, I know plenty of adults that complain about boredom and they are most
definitely the ones that are doing something wrong. Not because they aren't
filling whatever free time they have with some other form of work, but because
they don't know how to enjoy the free time that they get (lack of
hobbies/interests/etc.), and/or they don't know how to relax and enjoy doing
nothing.

As people get older the concept of their own mortality becomes more and more
tangible, which makes each moment seem more precious. To a kid being bored is
an annoyance, but to an adult being bored is more like a lost opportunity at
best and a personal failing at worst.

------
codingdave
I think we have full control over how busy we are. But we also have full
knowledge of the consequences of our actions, or lack thereof. So we choose to
do more. Maybe we work more to have a nicer home, which takes more work to
maintain. Maybe we hire out maintenance to have less money, but more time.
Maybe we choose to have children and a spouse, which takes time. Maybe we
choose to have a nice yard. Maybe we choose none of those things, and sit in a
low-maintenance apartment playing games, or maybe we ditch it all and hike the
Appalachian Trail. The point is that we make those choices. If anyone feels
they do not have that control of their life, that is a problem I would suggest
be fixed.

------
hooph00p
>A half-hour a day -- that's _five hours a week_.

A lot of this stuff is kind of... exaggerated. There's no real metrics except
for these "small piece of day" x "five days a week" to make it seem dramatic.
Not much value in this post.

------
renox
I wasn't really busy until I had children..

------
BigGillyStyle
To me the struggle is the rare collision of having both free time and ANY
energy at the point the free time comes. Most of my energy goes into all those
other buckets. I can see why some people just stare at a TV (which I don't
have) or do other passive entertainment (which I'm sure I do). To be fair to
myself...I do exercise (usually biking) 1-2 hours every day, which some will
classify as "free time". While it is often enjoyable, I don't consider it an
optional, spontaneous, or random endeavor...which is usually what I consider
"free" (or "unplanned") time.

------
ederlf
And it should be related to the feeling time passes so quick when you are an
adult.

------
shade23
But.These things are not a part of it.I will not call it multitasking.But an
important part of my daily schedule is planning things to make sure that I
avoid time where I just day dream,it could be waiting for a build
process,washing clothes,cooking etc.While all these tasks are defined as
"time-consuming",they basically require more efficient management(you can ask
any working parent,they will be able to explain to you important time
management becomes). So adults seem busy because they are doing more than one
thing simultaneously(not to be mistaken with multitasking).

------
jezclaremurugan
I guess most of the comments focussing on cutting down work.. but I get a
serious mid life crisis - "what am I doing with my life" sinking feeling when
I have time to spare. Being busy helps me avoid that..

~~~
anotheryou
I find it hard to compete against you in the job market, haha. I have a
gazillion things I'd want to do if I had the time and energy.

------
dboreham
Obviously they are busy because they are reading and responding to Hacker
News.

------
GoToRO
It's easy. We are busy because we stay at work too much. Also todays jobs are
not so fulfilling, which means you need more time to recover. Make the work
day 4 hours + meal and things will be better.

------
slaunchwise
The comments on this thread strike me as an unusually good portrait of the HN
community. This is who we are, how we spend our time, how much diversity in
these viewpoints we contain.

------
kkoomi
That's why I hate full-time employment. It is shocking that people haven't
revolted when the majority have to devote much more than a majority of their
time to work and errands, even not including time for offspring.

When I make kids (my pokémon if you will), I plan to sit'em down and ELI5 what
life is like for the average adult. I will work with them develop their own
income streams, based on things they are passionate about. This way, they can
avoid a life of modern slavery.

------
johnward
They only accounted for 40 hours for work. What professional today is only
spending 40 hours working and/or increasing their skills related to work?
Especially if you are on HN.

2 hours for dependents? I take it that doesn't mean children?

Another thing I will never understand is how so many of my fellow American
Males can watch basically every football game during the week. Who has time
for that? I don't even have a single friend outside of my family because it's
just too time consuming.

~~~
tropo
In government, hours are often limited.

For federal contractors, any extra hours must be paid (not legal to work for
free) so normally it's only 40, or perhaps 47 at a real sleazy place.

------
Damogran6
Compounded with the current (IT) expectation that you should do and be
everything for your job. It should be the first thing you look at when the
alarm goes off, and the last thing you look at when you go to bed, and at 2pm
on Saturday...work work work.

But then you're made redundant in the name of 'finding inefficiencies' due to
the merger and find yourself with...nothing outside the office that defines
you.

------
chillingeffect
An additional perspective: most of us don't leave and rejoin our jobs, so we
have no downtime, long fluid moments of activity and rest. Also we forego most
healthy time now for a massive payoff at retirement with diminished health. We
fear this constantly.

To fix it, we should become contractors or 4 day week workers.

~~~
johnward
I have some contractor friends and they say that they feel so much more
respect. When there is overtime involved the client usually pushed it to their
salaried staff because there is no cost to them. I went on vacation for a week
and couldn't go a day without someone contacted me about some BS at work.
There is no mental break at all anymore. I'm a enterprise consultant so any
over time I work is basically free money for my employer.

------
ams6110
Dependents typically take a lot more than 2 hrs/week. More like 2hrs/day if
they are in school and involved in any extra-curricular activities, at least
until they are of driving age. On days where they might have e.g. a game, or
some other performance or event, this can easily double.

------
Tepix
So, most of the things on these list are avoidable. Some are not.

Doing the laundry is a good example. With a 4 person household, this takes up
_a lot_ of time! A robot to take this chore away from me would be extremely
valuable. I can't wait for technology to advance so these become available.

------
zawarudo
This is probably a bit exaggerated. Like someone else mentioned, this is
probably directed at adults that have children. Having children comes with
loads more time-consuming responsibilities... not that I have any, but my
sister complains a lot about that part.

------
Pica_soO
To prevent existential dread creeping in if you get a chance to contemplate
the hamster wheel?

------
raheemm
This chart from the bureau of labor statistics shows where our time goes. Work
is the # 1 activity, followed by sleep.

[http://www.bls.gov/tus/charts/](http://www.bls.gov/tus/charts/)

------
enibundo
Well if you cook for more people, and someone cleans for more people and
someone else does something for more people... it becomes fun and you won't
have to do some stuff of that list because someone else did it.

------
dharma1
Looking at our nearest relatives, primates, they seem to have a pretty chill
life.

Also, I think there is a vast difference between spending time on something
that is intrinsically rewarding, and on something that isn't.

------
Walf
Missed _security_. You could argue it falls under the responsibility sections,
but protecting your possessions without your presence is definitely extra
effort.

~~~
justinlardinois
Perhaps. Some people are lucky enough that closing the windows and locking the
doors are enough.

------
losteverything
You stop working you start dying.

~~~
FilterSweep
Working for another person, or working for yourself? It's possible to be
unemployed, and working.

~~~
losteverything
I'm fortunate enough to have access to people who stopped working. All do not
need to work for income. Often, after working years, they perish quickly.

Others spend their days in front of tv. This saddens me. Imagine telling the
young intern that after you sell your practice you spend your days watching
tv. Day in day out.

Or the widow who is always on her couch.

Or the well off retired exec trying to figure out how to spend years and years
of days ahead of him.

Being rich and old and not working is a bad formula.

------
xg15
Because we have to do all the stuff now that our parents used to do for us?

------
blueside
one thing i've learned over the years is that everyone isn't really as busy as
they say they are.

everyone is afraid of not sounding busy.

------
Globz
Trello is life and it is my goto to-do list!

------
kragen
I read this and I think that it mostly sounds like a list of self-created
problems, largely arising from the author's vanity and poor impulse control,
that need to be solved.

The crucial #1 thing that's _entirely missing from this list_ , though, is
cultivating personal connections with other people. That's the thing about
your life that most strongly determines your happiness, as well as your
professional success, your educational opportunities, and your love life
(obviously). And it's not just a matter of taking care of dependents (#13),
because it involves people who aren't your dependents, too. This list
implicitly relegates that to last place, behind ironing your shirts, fixing
dents in your car, and fucking off at the gym. Don't do that. Spend time on
connecting with other people _every day_. Help them. Listen to them. Work with
them. Play with them. If you don't, your life is going to be terrible, no
matter how much money you have, how clean your toilet is, or how up-to-date
your sound system is.

I'm not speaking theoretically here, although there's lots of psychological
theory backing up what I'm saying. I knew a number of people who killed
themselves. Don't be the next one. Connect. On your deathbed you aren't going
to wish you'd owned a more complete set of cutlery.

And this is, in my experience, the biggest difference from childhood — you
have to _deliberately_ connect with people, because it doesn't happen by
default. As a child, your parents will invite people to your birthday party.
As an adult, if you don't invite people to your birthday party, you won't have
a birthday party. This is more an opportunity than a burden, because it means
_you choose who to create connections with_.

What about the rest of this stupid list?

I'm going to mention my life from time to time in what's below, but I don't
want you to get the wrong idea. I'm far from a paragon, of self-discipline or
anything else. I'm not holding my life up as a model to be emulated, although
it does reflect my own values to some extent. I'm saying, if even I can do
this shit, any fucking idiot can do it. Probably you can do better.

1\. "Have money". Okay, I like to have money. I like to work, too. I've paid
my own way (and sometimes some other people's ways) since I was 18; I've been
lucky in that this has been a lot easier for me than for most people. But
honestly, I haven't been shallow enough to equate financial independence with
adulthood since I was about 12. Housewives aren't adults? But I was an adult
when I was paying my rent by working at Taco Bell? Please.

How much you have to work to make a living has a lot to do with how much you
spend and how much you can bill. Financially independent people's spending,
even in the US, varies from a few thousand dollars a year up to hundreds of
thousands, without even getting into the super-wealthy. Workers get paid
anywhere from US$10 per hour (or even less for prisoners and illegal aliens)
up to US$1000 per hour or more. Outside the US, the variation is even greater.

Don't tell me that across this entire range of expenses and earnings you have
to work "40–60 hours a week" in order to have money. You work that number of
hours because it's the norm, not because your living expenses magically adjust
to match your earnings within 15%. Then, you spend however much you make,
instead of what you need, because you're a fucking idiot. I've been there too,
man. It sucks. But you can stop doing that, unless you're at the bottom of the
income distribution or have extra expenses.

2\. "Cooking." You can totally cook if you want to. Cooking is an enjoyable
activity, and feeding people even more so. But you definitely don't have to
spend half an hour cooking breakfast every day if you're short on time. Boil
half a dozen eggs on Sunday night, have an egg and a banana for breakfast each
morning. Make a casserole on Saturday, eat slices for dinner all week. Have
peanut-butter sandwiches and salad for lunch. Cook dinner for yourself, a
partner, and two friends; then you only cook dinner one out of every four
times, unless you somehow get slotted into a housewife role. Boil eggs,
chopped onion, and cheese in a Ziploc bag to make a Ziploc omelet. Chop
vegetables on Tuesday night and use the vegetables in food for the rest of the
week. Use dried onion and garlic in bottles. Make three liters of cooked rice
and eat from it the rest of the week, or use a rice cooker. Keep a seasoned
salt mix in a shaker. Keep oils for cooking in squirt bottles with conical
nozzles next to the stove. Make a big batch of curry, pack it into a dozen big
Ziploc bags, and freeze them all with separators in between.

My breakfast this morning was canned mackerel, wheat crackers, and a peanut
bar; lunch was instant noodles. (I'm trying not eating after midday this week,
although I'm buying the food rather than begging for it in the street in the
traditional way.)

3\. "Laundry." Don't dry-clean your own clothes, as the article bizarrely
suggests; that's dangerous enough to outsource to a specialized company. Don't
fold your clothes except on special occasions; wear knits instead. Wear your
clothes twice before washing. Wear flip-flops instead of socks. Synthetics dry
faster, but I can't wear them more than once; I can wear silk, wool, or cotton
twice. You can get laundry down to 20 minutes a week (per person) if you have
a washing machine.

4\. "Cleaning." This is largely a matter of how much living space you have,
although yeah, I probably spend a few hours a week washing dishes. When my
then wife and I lived in a van, we sure as hell didn't spend 5 hours a week
each cleaning it. We probably didn't spend two hours a week between the two of
us. (We did have to spend a lot of hours fixing it, though...)

5\. "Buying stuff." This is the only one on the list that actually saves you
time — buying bookshelves is a hell of a lot faster than making them, not to
mention toothpaste. But I've still wasted a terrible fraction of my life on
it. You can reduce the time you waste on buying things by buying in bulk,
often by buying online, by buying things that last, and by possessing less.
(If you are poor, you may find yourself obliged to possess a great many
things, just in case; but if you are not poor, you can take advantage of the
opportunity afforded by your money to only buy the things you do need.)

6\. "Bills." My roommate and I have six bills: rent, internet+telephone, gas,
electricity, water, and property tax. Most of these come once every two
months. (The property tax we can pay yearly.) It definitely doesn't take us 16
hours every two months between the two of us to track and pay them. Don't live
alone; that's a stupid waste of time. Of course, if you pick the wrong
roommate, you could waste a lot more than 16 hours arguing... but that hasn't
been a problem.

7\. "Small errands." Yes, these can take an unbounded amount of time. Avoid
them as much as possible. A lot of these come from your possessions and bills.

8\. "Transport." Yes, it's easy to waste hours a day on transport (to say
nothing of the time you work to pay off a car loan). I live 20 minutes away
from my office by public transit or bicycle. Usually I read or write on the
bus; sometimes it's too crowded. About once a month, I have to top up the
transit pass. This is a 45-second cash transaction at the ticket counter in
the subway station. I should probably spend a couple of hours getting my
bicycle back in working order, because it's often more convenient.

It's easy to get into a position where you're spending two or four or six
hours a day on transport, and worse, transport that consumes your entire
attention. If you're in that position, recognize that it's an urgent problem
and you need to get out of it. Only isolation from other human beings is more
psychologically damaging than long commutes, and only serious illness wastes
more time.

9\. Exercise. (The article says "staying healthy", but ⓐ that's a lost cause,
you're going to fucking die just like everybody else, and ⓑ eating is already
point #2.) What the fuck is wrong with you that you drive a car to a job five
days a week and then lack exercise? How about walking a little bit? I walk
about a kilometer a day to get to the bus or subway, two or three kilometers
most days. If I bike to work and back that's five kilometers. Also you could
work (in the traditional sense of the word). I'm sure there's _something_ in
your house that could use some elbow grease. A few weeks ago I was also taking
the stairs the fifty meters up to the office — this takes four minutes. I
think I'll start again tomorrow.

~~~
kragen
10\. "Finances." Don't waste your time following the stock market unless
you're day-trading. Don't day-trade unless you're going to do it full time.
Invest your savings at first in an index fund (or buy SPY, which is pretty
much the same thing) and move a bit to a money-market fund each year so that
it's nearly all in that form by the time you hit retirement. You don't need an
investment advisor unless you have millions of dollars to manage. Keep enough
of your money in a liquid form that you can cover emergencies; historically
this was dollars, now it might be Bitcoin, though I'm not sure yet. Buy a
house (and keep most of your savings offshore) if you live somewhere
politically unstable. None of this, except for buying a house, will cost you
hours per week, more like hours per year.

All of this can get a great deal more time-consuming if you're poor, because
you're desperately trying to avoid disaster by carefully juggling things here
and there. There may not be anything you can do about that, but if you're in
that position because you're just spendthrift (as suggested in point #1), then
get a grip.

11\. "Taxes." Yes.

12\. "Responsibility for yourself." Yes.

13\. "Responsibility for your dependents." Yes, some of this is unavoidable,
but note that many people choose to spend an enormous amount of time on it at
no real benefit to their dependents. Also, to some extent you can influence
how many dependents you have — the most responsible choice is to be childfree,
because the human population is not in any danger of dying out from under-
breeding. You may still have parents, siblings, adopted children, and so on to
take care of, but you'll have less dependents and correspondingly more
autonomy if you don't add to the population problem by breeding.

14\. "Being sick." Yes.

15\. "One time errands." Yes.

16\. "Long term planning." Yes, this is the main thing. It should be #2, after
cultivating friendships and other connections with other people, not #16.

1\. "Attire and grooming." There are jobs that do require fancy clothes (even
ironed shirts and ties! even now!) and you should count that as part of the
work hours when you are considering taking such a job. I've had the wonderful
good luck to work almost exclusively at jobs where I could show up in a
T-shirt and slacks and get a haircut every month or three and be fine. In the
spring, summer, and fall I usually take cold showers, which cuts my shower
time to about three minutes. You can brush your hair walking down the street
if you don't just shave it off.

2\. "Sleeping." Yes, this is super important.

3\. "Eating." Yes, this is super important, although I certainly don't spend
10½ hours a week on it.

------
qznc
They are not really busy, but it is one of the best socially-accepted excuses.

~~~
FilterSweep
I hear this jib all of the time.

One thing the author missed in his, otherwise spot-on calculations, is the
fact that after spending a _certain_ amount of time on one task - namely work
for most people, marginal hours of "free time" _afterwards are actually not
"free time"_ \- they're hours spent in mental recovery.

This varies for each person, but you see a recurring theme of people sitting
on their couch or in front of their computer just staring at a screen. But
their mindless staring is only telling half the story.

Could they possibly just go to sleep? Sure, but waking up at 4AM has even
worse implications on the next work day. These people are recovering by doing
nothing.

This is why so many of my friends who saved up a nest egg as developers have
recently quit their jobs upon hitting quarter-life crisis. All of a sudden,
they now have the free time to do _other_ development work they enjoy (often
more productively), pursue other hobbies, cook, build/create art, fill up
their day with _MORE_ than just the monolith of the work day, and come out
feeling "less busy" despite having achieved more than when they were employed.

The work week really is a monolith. _Spending over 1 /3 of your entire day on
this monolith has implications on the other 2/3 of your day._

------
edu
OMG, that was a dreadful reading. And definitely, as an adult my life feels
quite more easy and manageable than what she says, and I work, clean, cook,
watch netflix, practice sport, and meet my friends besides all the other adult
obligations.

~~~
ido
How much time do you spend taking care of kids? That's the real time sink of
adulthood (not just childcare itself, but also all the extra strain it
generates in terms of household work, cleaning, etc).

10 years ago I had all the time in the world, even though I was an adult - a
single, childless adult.

~~~
majewsky
Having children is a choice. Most things in the original list are not a
choice.

~~~
emodendroket
Yeah, if you "choose" to be a hermit living in the woods I suppose you can
cross off the 40 hours a week for work too.

~~~
FilterSweep
A hermit living in the woods still must nourish him/herself, and find/build
shelter.

------
jdimov10
The article doesn't really answer the question. It says adults are busy
because they have too much stuff to do (duh..) But "why" is still a good
question, and it remains unanswered.

The answer is that, as we grow up, we tend to develop the belief that our
well-being needs to be justified somehow. In other words, we start to believe
that we are not by default worthy of living a good, joyful, care-free,
abundant life.. unless it is "deserved". And the way to justify, or "earn" our
well-being, we are told, is by action. By doing things. So we become obsessed
with doing things, as a way of seeking approval and justifying our well-being.

Of course, as any child knows... this is ridiculous. Action is not a means to
an end. Action itself is one of the ways to enjoy life.

~~~
dazc
Having grown up in the UK I've always felt guilty about not doing anything in
my free time. Partly because everyone else seems to be living such a busy and
rewarding existence (or so they would have me believe).

Now, living in Spain, I feel it's OK not to do anything. Just sitting in the
shade for 6 hours watching the world go by doesn't make me a weirdo, like it
does back home.

~~~
csydas
Heh, I've noticed that Western culture does put a different emphasis on work
ethics. After moving to Russia, I've just noticed a different approach to how
work is perceived, and my partner and her mom have often cited this proverb at
me:

Работа не волк - в лес не убежит. Work is not a wolf, it will not run to the
forest.

Basically, the idea is work isn't going anywhere, so no need to worry that
much about it. At my last job in the US, I couldn't understand why people were
so adamant about how busy they were when most of the time people were doing
what they could to look busy. It's not that they were actually burdened with
work, it was that they wanted to appear like they had no time. My employees
would frequently get into arguments over who had the busier and more difficult
schedule. My family does the same (one of my brothers prides himself on how
little free time he had)

I guess it's just this perception that important people are busy and the
inverse of that is if you're not busy you're not important. Just speculation,
of course, but it's my experience that once you get away from the US, you lose
this mindset.

Edit: I guess in fairness I should note that I did have genuinely busy
coworkers - our under-staffed programming team were constantly under pressure
and in constant repair mode due to not having the time or resources to move
out of a crisis state. This is a true "always busy" scenario in my mind.

~~~
SerLava
>I guess it's just this perception that important people are busy

Perhaps but I'm sure the primary thought in their subconscious is "don't back
down or they will punish you by inventing new burdens for you."

------
Humjob
Some of these time claims are comically wrong.

The average man spends nowhere near 90 minutes a day on 'attire and grooming.'

Most people don't work out an hour a day either.

Laundry? No way that's 2 hours per week.

Most people don't cook every meal either. And making a sandwich or pouring a
bowl of cereal sure as hell don't take 30 minutes.

Here are some actual statistics that weren't randomly pulled out of my ass and
subsequently upvoted on Hacker News:

[https://priceonomics.com/how-young-adults-spend-their-
time-2...](https://priceonomics.com/how-young-adults-spend-their-
time-2004-vs-2014/)

~~~
stepvhen
The very idea that somebody takes half and hour each to exclusively cook and
eat three meals a day is absurd for a number of reasons, e.g. leftovers, the
act of eating and reading at once, sandwiches, meal planning, skipping lunch,
very-american-pre-processed-food, rice cookers, toast, etc.

------
Pulce
Horror vacui.

------
marmot777
Kids.

