

House Defeats Effort to Rein In N.S.A. Data Gathering - mbateman
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/25/us/politics/house-defeats-effort-to-rein-in-nsa-data-gathering.html

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s_q_b
I really do commend everyone involved in this effort. This is how the system
is supposed to work, citizens making their voices know, and the legislature
acting upon the will of the people.

Honestly you guys got far closer to your goal than I would have anticipated.
The bipartison support was almost unprecedented in recent years.

From a practical matter, even if the House bill passed it was dead on arrival
in the Senate. But nevertheless it is a significant symbolic blow to blanket
surveillance against American citizens.

All I've tried to communicate, perhaps with less than appropriate tact, is
that this is going to be a long slog.

If you're going to reign in the surveillance state, you'll need to start
thinking like Washington insiders. Pick one incumbent that vocally supported
these programs, and take him or her down. That will instantly catapult this
issue to the top of the concerns in DC.

It only costs a few million to get that done. Considering the wealth of the
tech industry, and the threat this poses to overseas expansion of the US
internet services, donations shouldn't be overly difficult to drum up. We
could really make a large dent in getting the legislature to help roll back
these programs to sane levels. Add to that an anit-SOPA style social media
campaign, and you could accomplish real and lasting change.

~~~
fnordfnordfnord
> Pick one incumbent that vocally supported these programs, and take him or
> her down.

That sounds wonderful. Who do you suggest? Mike Rogers? Ruppersberger?
Labrador?

~~~
s_q_b
Let me think on that. It's really a political question of vulnerability. You
want someone that's prominent enough in the debate, but weak enough in their
home district to take down. A senator would be better than a Congressman...

You'll also have to remember that there is a series of corporate interests,
large and small, with very deep pockets that will oppose any check on the
surveillance state, no matter how reasonable.

Full Disclosure: I don't support outright ending these programs, as many of
you do. I do support real judicial oversight, transparency into the law being
made in the FISA opinions, and a series of internal and external safeguards to
reign these programs in from the brink.

I know it's not the most popular opinion in these parts, but politics makes
for strange bedfellows. No reason that we can't work together on the things we
agree upon.

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clarkm
Here is roll call, complete with a map:

[http://politics.nytimes.com/congress/votes/113/house/1/412](http://politics.nytimes.com/congress/votes/113/house/1/412)

The vote wasn't partisan, nor did it break along geographic lines.

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ISL
Furthermore, some urban districts are invisible at that scale.

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rgbrenner
You can zoom in by double clicking on the map

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NoPiece
The roll call if you are interested in how your congressman voted:

[http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2013/roll412.xml](http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2013/roll412.xml)

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LoganCale
Well, today I learned I'm not voting to reelect my Congressman.

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s_q_b
Mine were one aye and one abstention, (the abstention from a neighboring
district that isn't technically my district but was gerrymandered to run
through part of my home city.)

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ojbyrne
I hope that every tech person in SF will be clear and unequivocal in saying
... "Dear Ms. Pelosi, you have demonstrated that you do not represent your
constituents and you will never receive my vote, and that I will put all my
efforts into ensuring that you are never reelected."

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n09n
Assuming we all agree with you is pretty arrogant. A lot of people will do as
you say, and a lot of people will do the opposite. As long as nobody acts like
a sore loser about it, everyone goes home happy.

~~~
ojbyrne
I don't see how you got "Assuming we all agree with you" out of "I hope."

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finkin1
I'm somewhat encouraged by this. 12 votes and it would have passed. Even
though it didn't pass and will ultimately be seen as a failure, I imagine this
will serve as a wake-up call.

Imagine the investment made by the NSA into collecting and processing all of
this data. 12 votes and it could have changed. This must have scared the shit
out of someone. Hopefully this is just the beginning.

~~~
ars
6 votes actually, not 12. (Well 7 because of the tie breaker.)

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lettergram
This will probably come up again (along similar lines) clearly there would be
enough support after some back room deals.

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webwanderings
What a mind boggling time we are living in where the liberal government is
pressing to keep such practices and conservatives are against it only because
they are against liberals in principle.

If this is not the doom of two-party ideology of liberal/conservative
political system than I am not sure what is.

~~~
tsotha
>What a mind boggling time we are living in where the liberal government is
pressing to keep such practices and conservatives are against it only because
they are against liberals in principle.

What in the world are you talking about? Do you have any reason to believe
this is true?

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randomknowledge
During the bush years "conservatives" [republicans] tended to be more in
favour of government surveillance, while "liberals"[democrats] tended to be
more opposed. Now that Obama is in power conservatives are more opposed while
liberals are less opposed. The switch would suggest that at least some of
these individuals (on both sides) are motivated by politics and not principle.

~~~
tsotha
>Now that Obama is in power conservatives are more opposed while liberals are
less opposed. The switch would suggest that at least some of these individuals
(on both sides) are motivated by politics and not principle.

But you're not talking about the same thing. The idea that you can support
warrantless tapping of international calls when the other end of the line is a
suspected terrorist and oppose the dragnet of all call records and emails
doesn't indicate a lack of principle. We're talking about policies with a much
different scope.

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AsymetricCom
So when do we see a similar vote to rein in corporate and other private entity
data gathering? Or are we all conservatives here?

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noarchy
Of course corporate entities should not be getting away with anything you
haven't agreed to let them do. People need to become more aware of what
they're agreeing to when they use any service. You can try to inform them, but
you can't think for them, and you can't act for them. At some stage, they need
to make an effort.

But the difference with something like the NSA is, you can't opt-out of what
they're doing. With a company, you can take your business elsewhere. This
isn't so easy with the government, unfortunately.

