
When A Game Designer teaches a College Course: No Grading, just Levelling Up - biggitybones
http://gamingtheclassroom.wordpress.com/syllabus/
======
endtime
All the teacher did was change the names of things; the underlying structure
of the class is disappointingly standard.

It may seem like each assignment grants the maximum possible XP (which would
be a different, though probably broken, grading model), but not if you read
this: "Grading is rigorous. Spelling, grammar and punctuation must be proofed.
Points will be deducted otherwise."

~~~
biggitybones
But the main difference is the perception of the students. It may be the same
underlying structure, but it's from a progression standpoint as opposed to the
traditional back and forth of grading.

This TEDxUniPittsburgh talk speaks to this concept:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tg55pdNMxw&feature=relat...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tg55pdNMxw&feature=related)

Quote: "This has a number of powerful psychological motivators. One of them is
no matter what you do in the class, anything you do is forward motion. As
opposed to a normal class, when you get a bad grade or something, it takes you
back a step which is very demoralizing. Game designers would never put that in
a game, because they know people hate it."

~~~
lucasjung
"...it takes you back a step which is very demoralizing. Game designers would
never put that in a game, because they know people hate it."

I agree that people hate this (I know I do, at least), but game designers put
that in games all of the time, regardless:

 _You just died ten minutes into the level with the finish line in sight--
start over again at the beginning of the level._

OR

 _You are only allowed to save at particular save points. These are spaced out
just far enough that you are likely to lose significant amounts of progress
every time you die._

~~~
roc
The type is the same, but the implementation is wildly different these days.

Save points in particular are far more numerous and well-placed in today's
games. Notably, challenges are now intentionally separated by save points, so
that a single skill-type is in focus during each unit.

That way someone who has trouble with, say, a vehicle section won't fail and
be faced with five to ten minutes of run-and-gun before they can even attempt
(and thus practice) the vehicle portion again.

Essentially, that's precisely what the OP's approach to education is: adding
more save points and breaking up the challenges better by type: solo vs group,
oral presentation vs written proposal, etc.

Further, failure penalties are only really used in games where the player has
an open-ended amount of time to defeat the challenge, precisely to encourage
learning and/or mastering of a technique or skill. In a setting where the
player has a time limit (such as in education) it would be unnecessary and
inappropriate to additionally penalize failure as "repetition + luck" wouldn't
be a valid strategy in the first place.

------
teach
I teach computer science at the high school level. Inspired by Dr. Sheldon, I
switched my classes to use points instead of traditional grades, but I went
further than he has.

I'm only halfway through the year, but so far things are very positive.
Students seem to be learning more and covering more material on average. (I'll
write up a blog post about the experience this summer.)

~~~
glen
Teach, would love to hear the details!

~~~
teach
Okay, here are the basics. Sorry for the delayed response; I'm used to reddit
with its handy orangered envelope....

For the past dozen years, I've taught in a very traditional way. I'd give a
lecture on a programming concept, then assign several small programming
assignments of increasing difficulty to practice the new concept. Once most of
the class is fine with the new thing, move on. Rinse, repeat.

This year from day one I had all 130 assignments up on a class web page, each
worth anywhere from 5 points to 400 points (most in the 30-100 range, though).
I spent a couple of days teaching them a "hello world" Java program and how to
compile with javac on the command-line. Then I said, "By the end of the first
grading cycle (13 class days, each 90 minutes) you need 250 points to earn an
"S rank" (100%) on your report card. It's 190 points for an A (90%), 120
points for a B, and 60 points for a C. Below 60 points is failing. Do any
assignments you want in any order to earn the points, although doing them all
in order is probably smartest. Go."

Students turn in the completed assignments into a digital dropbox, and I grade
them daily, giving each assignment between 0 points and its max. If a kid
makes less than about 95% of the possible points on any given assignment, I
conference with him to explain what he's missing, and he'll redo it and turn
it in for full credit.

I added in some LearnPythonTheHardWay-style assignments as the first couple of
assignments of each new topic, so they can type in and mess with some already-
working code that demonstrates the new thing.

I only give class-wide lectures when there are several students all stuck in
the same place. Otherwise I just help the kids one-on-one or refer them to my
slide decks or Google.

Points are cumulative, so for the current grading period, students need to
have a TOTAL of 3300 points for an S-rank, 2600 points for an A, 1800 for a B
and 1200 points to pass.

Some students have 4000+ points already and are on pace to complete two years'
worth of curriculum in their first year (and sit for the Advanced Placement
test a year early). Others will be fortunate to understand if statements,
loops and functions by May.

Everybody's in a different place and it's fairly chaos in here all day, but
every student is learning something and I love it.

------
alexophile
I've been thinking about this idea a lot lately - I think gamifying a single
course could produce a modest boost in performance, but it seems like this
particular implementation, as endtime pointed out, simply changes some names.

I think this would be a way cool system around which you could base secondary
education. But instead of the generic game parallels, you could treat the four
years of high school as a sort of mash of character creation and early game
exploration. If you had 5 lines of progression (Math, Science, Social
Sciences, Art, Language) that went from level 1-10, each requiring passing
exams, preparing presentations, or completing projects, you could allow
students to naturally find the work that pushes them personally.

The one big thing I think is necessary to really see the benefit of a game-
like system in education is _the ability to try stuff multiple times._

Consider an alternate version of angry birds. In this alternate version, there
are 150 levels, many of which mirror the fun and challenging levels we know
and love in the original. The 150 levels are in 15 worlds, each with 5
practice levels and 5 "test" levels. After playing the 5 practice levels as
much as you want, you can play the 5 test levels all in a row, precisely once.
However you do, that's how you did. That's your score.

Not a whole lot of _replayability_ there. While it can be necessary
(especially at the university level) to distinguish between those who are and
are not competant in a given field, I think game mechanics can teach us a
whole lot more about how to make people _want_ to achieve.

Additional thoughts:

\- Unlockables could be really exciting i.e. you have silent study hall until
you hit level 4 in any subject, at which point you gain access to the study
lounge; if you're level 10 in at least 1 area, you can apply for off-campus
lunch

\- Incentives for tutoring would be cool. (Think "Prestige Levels")

\- DATA! Tracking these things would give unprecedented amounts of data that
could provide a lot of insight into the way students are progressing through
the material.

\- For this to really work, you would have to develop a new system for
scheduling courses in high school that more resembled a college. _This is not
a bad thing._ I think giving high school kids a bit more autonomy in deciding
how and what they go about learning with their time will produce more well-
adjusted, mature adults.

\- The specifics of how to implement a lot of these systems are less difficult
than you think.

~~~
dominostars
This system and our current system face the same fundamental issue: how do you
determine that a student has 'leveled up'? If what gives you 'experience' is
flawed, it won't really matter whether a student is getting a level or a
letter grade.

Also, if you want to encourage students to try stuff multiple times, you'd
have to make sure 'not leveling up' doesn't equate to 'staying back a grade'.
Students won't be encouraged to really learn what they need to, but just to
get through things as quickly as possible, because Harvard only accepts people
who are level 10 in math and science.

~~~
hbt
Obviously admission requirements will have to change.

My understanding of levels is like the Euler challenge.
[http://projecteuler.net/index.php?section=problems&page=...](http://projecteuler.net/index.php?section=problems&page=7)

For example, leveling up in Calculus would be about solving problems, putting
calculus into practice, writing a project using learnt concepts.

Determining if a student has leveled up is easy, they just do. They solve the
problem they're given, they complete their projects.

\-------------

The idea of customized education, choosing levels and perks and having a clear
organization of how things are connected e.g how many levels do I have to
complete before I can do project X or understand concept Y

Levels can help understand associations between subjects. Student would build
mental models of how things are connected instead of applying formulas on
equations like calculators.

I never understood why some subjects were more important than others. You
could live your entire life without understanding physics or economics.

When it comes to education, I would rather take choice and exploration over
enforcement and standardization.

PS: Reply to your comment is the first part. The rest is just my plug

~~~
dominostars
> Obviously admission requirements will have to change.

This is where the focus needs to be. Big colleges get an enormous amount of
applications. They do not have the man power to deeply analyze each candidate.
So, they use metrics to filter candidates, such as required course work and a
minimum GPA. The current high school curriculum is largely dictated by this,
and I don't see that changing with your system because the incentives are the
same, whether you call it 'passing an AP calculus test' or 'becoming a level 9
Math student'.

> For example, leveling up in Calculus would be about solving problems,
> putting calculus into practice, writing a project using learnt concepts.

This isn't that different from how schools work today. How was your grade
decided in Calculus? By solving calculus problems. You don't necessarily put
it into practice, or write a project, but teachers could certainly assign
those things to you. Many science classes give you open ended science
projects.

I agree with your intent, and I like you way of thinking, I just don't see it
doing away with enforcement and standardization. Yet.

------
jarrett
The change in perspective will probably be enough to provide some positive
psychological benefits, but I think doing some actual restructuring would
help, as well.

In most games where you level up, you get as many chances as you need. If you
fail to defeat a mob the first time around, you don't forever lose the
possibility of reaching the highest level. You just have to try again.

But, in this grading system, as in every traditional one, you only get one
shot at each task, and if you score less than optimally on any one, your
maximum possible level decreases.

That's a big departure from the usual mechanics of games, and one that I think
could have a significant impact on morale.

~~~
forensic
To sum up:

In games like WoW, you can win through sheer playtime and repetition.

In real life, such as school, you must apply intelligence.

There are many guilds in WoW who beat a boss by mindlessly throwing themselves
at it over and over until, by luck, they win.

This approach is not desired by the university.

~~~
jacques_chester
> In games like WoW, you can win through sheer playtime and repetition. In
> real life, such as school, you must apply intelligence.

Effortless recall is one of the foundations for reasoning fluently about
concepts. And one of the most efficient ways to build that recall is
repetition.

~~~
forensic
I'm not dissing repetition as a method to facilitate memory.

In WoW, people repeat the same boss over and over without learning anything or
changing the approach until through luck they win. This is not possible with a
school exam because you only get one chance, and even in the event that you
can repeat it, the exam will be changed.

Not so in videogames.

~~~
jacques_chester
So like most analogies, it leaks.

Actually the WoW approach has more to do with a different form of learning --
variable interval reinforcement ratios -- which has been canvassed at HN
before.

------
archangel_one
I like the approach for that class, although it looks like a terrible
experience curve for a game; you have to grind for weeks to reach Level 2, but
then most of the subsequent levels are achieved relatively rapidly. Also you
could hit a ceiling where it's no longer possible to achieve Level 12 because
you missed out on XP earlier. Fun, but the metaphor doesn't fit quite well
enough for me.

~~~
jacques_chester
Intermediate work is used as a way to get students to perform work as the
semester progresses, rather than trying to do it all at the end.

There's lots of reasons why. For example:

* Memory formation works best with spaced repetition.

* Students will just cram for an exam if you let them, which won't form long term recall.

* Spreads the assessment workload over the semester.

Actually, spaced repetition with game mechanics might work best. I was looking
at a spaced repetition idea for a thesis ... a badges/levelling up thing might
make it easier to pitch to students.

------
cgranade
I like the idea implicitly communicated that there's almost a shopping list of
assignments, and each one carries an XP value; if you're not doing so well,
then with that kind of a system you can correct that by working harder to
learn the subject matter. Obviously, there's problems, such as enabling a
brute force strategy for getting good grades, but I'd be interested to see how
well a quest list approach to grading would work in comparison to a sequential
assignment style.

------
smithbits
I woke up from a dream the other morning and could still see a mini-map of my
house in the upper right corner of my vision. There were little blue
exclamation points for all my daily quests. Brush teeth, take shower, make
breakfast, etc. I was curious who gives out the quests, what kind of rep I'm
farming and what the full quest text said, but then I was fully awake and it
was gone. It's good to see that a college course can be similarly rewritten.

~~~
egypturnash
Maybe it's time to start looking for better quests than "brush your teeth".

------
Jach
My high school sociology teacher implemented a point-based system that
everyone but a few complainers loved. (And so he was forced for the next year
to axe it or quit.) It was simple, clear, harmful to procrastination yet
beneficial to laziness at the same time. Everyone starts at 0, an F, you
optionally do various assignments throughout the term and gain points, and if
at the end you have enough points you can cruise. Oh, and points over 100
rolled over to the next term.

------
Luyt
It is only a matter of time before the first powerleveling services become
available for this class.

------
ThomPete
This is the guys Jesse Schell talks about in his Dice10 talk

[http://g4tv.com/videos/44277/dice-2010-design-outside-the-
bo...](http://g4tv.com/videos/44277/dice-2010-design-outside-the-box-
presentation/)

------
newman314
Best part:

Leeroy Jenkins 0pts.

LOL

[ref]
[https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Leeroy_Jenkin...](https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Leeroy_Jenkins)

~~~
cgranade
Sweet that you shared that link using secure.wikimedia.org. I'm glad that
others are using HTTPS where they can!

~~~
newman314
Too bad that I was apparently downvoted for the rest of the post.

------
EGreg
I still like the basic premise -- leveling up etc.

