
Laura Deming, founder of the Longevity Fund, on being homeschooled - mksm
https://blog.withprimer.com/laura-deming/
======
legitster
I know a lot of homeschoolers. Some had great experiences. Some had truly
terrible experiences. But regardless, they turned into functional, developed
adults at about the same rate as publicly schooled kids.

I think it's important for parents to realize that a lot of these choices are
mostly about enjoyment and convenience, and they don't need to beat themselves
up if they feel like they are failing because they can't put a square peg
through a round hole.

Although, that said, I think one trend I _do_ see is that successful people
had the ability to move on when they were ready. I for one was lucky enough to
get to go to college early (I hated high school). I can't think of how many
kids had to be stuck in the system because they were forced into a timetable.

~~~
searchableguy
Honestly timetable isn't bad if your school stops abusing you.

Stop punishing kids. Stop grading them like factory workers or defective
products. Stop putting them all in one classroom. Change their course work to
be more interactive and make an environment where people can naturally be
social...

I follow this Japanese light novel where they simulate real world in a school
setting. The school campus has everything - malls, bars, gaming areas, hair
saloons, library, parks and everything else you would visit outside the
campus. Students are given monthly allowance based on the performance of their
classes and live inside the campus until graduation on their own. I wonder how
feasible it would be to create something like that.

People who think that getting bullied or living in a toxic place when you have
no experience in dealing with it is great make me sad. Not everyone has a
decent life at home (some have dysfunctional families). For those people, it's
misery on top of misery. And then there are folks with autism, bipolar and
ADHD.

I was dealing with both. Broken for 2 years now. I don't have any goals,
dreams or plans that I had before. Now I have to fight against pessimism at
every point and is getting harder to socialize each passing days.

I have a different outlook on life now that people find very controversial or
against their moral compass. But I can justify it. The disconnection keeps
growing even if you quit.

Life gets better motto stings and disconnect me from others because I can't
remember a single nice memory that isn't reading something obscure on the
internet or communicating with other internet dwellers.

I have to ask people how they feel about something, what their thought process
is and why/how. I can't understand it. I have difficulty understanding your
common moral compass. I am not joking when I tell you to explain small
gestures and facial expressions. And I feel sad too. I just can't show it
always. I don't need to cry or look dead serious to say something serious.

~~~
legitster
It sounds like you are going through some tough things.

> I have a different outlook on life now that people find very controversial
> or against their moral compass. But I can justify it. The disconnection
> keeps growing even if you quit.

> Life gets better motto stings and disconnect me from others because I can't
> remember a single nice memory that isn't reading something obscure on the
> internet or communicating with other internet dwellers.

I am not sure if this is the right thing to say or not, but it seems like you
may be stuck in a negative feedback loop. You are getting validation from
people on the internet, and it is creating resentment for people in real life.

It sounds like the novel is about the nostalgia of a time in our lives when we
were forced to spend time with others. I think that is a pretty familiar
sentiment for a lot of people.

------
speeder
I want to homeschool my future kids but it is still illegal in my country
(illegal as in: if you attempt it, the government will arrest you and send the
kids to an orphanage)

Thing is: public schools here outright suck, teach lots of bullshit and are
dangerous.

Private schools are crazy expensive, and although they are more useful they
still teach a lot of bullshit.

Also the educational style of all schools here is outright awful, there is an
article from 1950s I believe written by Richard Feynman and it still applies
100%

~~~
swiley
As someone who was homeschooled and socialized almost exclusively with other
homeschoolers as a kid, I was on the fence about it.

Then I grew up and met people who went to public school. Holy cow I can’t
believe people think it’s ok to put their kids through that! I can’t believe
we collectively accept children being exposed to the violence and other
problems that are pervasive there! It’s not surprising so many people become
criminals now.

~~~
TrackerFF
> I can’t believe we collectively accept children being exposed to the
> violence and other problems that are pervasive there! It’s not surprising so
> many people become criminals now.

But on the flip-side, would you want to go your entire life without facing any
conflicts?

FWIW, I was bullied in middle school, and pretty much had to fight my way
through. As in fist fighting. As an adult, I don't tolerate any bullshit - and
have no problems saying so , if I'm ever in a situation. I'm not sure I'd be
the same person, if I hadn't gone through the things I did (not saying that
bullying or fighting is good, just that it molded me into a person with
extremely low tolerance for BS and a$$holes)

~~~
potta_coffee
Kids were knifed and shot at my high school, which wasn't even in a city
that's considered unsafe / high crime. There was a race war there too, in
which dozens of kids brought baseball bats and put each other in the hospital.
A kid was put stabbed with screwdriver and another kid was hit so hard in the
head he had a seizure. These kinds of experiences led me to homeschool my own
kids.

~~~
hevelvarik
I don’t know why school vouchers isn’t a wildly popular idea, with support
crossing political lines. Allowing schools and schooling models to compete for
students, and turning parents bodies into the customer is about as no-brainer
a public policy as a public policy can get.

~~~
Viliam1234
I guess the reason is that some kids are so bright that schools would compete
for them, most kids are average and the schools would compete for the
vouchers, but... there are some kids everyone wants to avoid. For example,
that kind that will stab their classmate the moment they get their hands on
something sharp (and will find a creative solution even if all objects at
school are perfectly soft and spherical). Maybe one percent of population are
psychopaths, and they are all kids before they become adults.

In other words, I would love to see a school system based on free association,
but what about the kids no one wants to associate with? If you make the system
such that one type of school can freely accept or reject students, but the
other type must accept everyone, you just increased the density of the
problematic kids in the second type of school, which creates a positive
feedback loop because now more parents want to take their kids away from
there.

Yet another problem is that the density of population is different in
different places. In a big city, you can have dozen schools in a walking
distance, so it is easy to choose. Then you have places where choosing another
school would require an hour of travel, so people would be quite angry if
their child is rejected. Should we have different rules for different places?

There are many great ideas, but it is difficult to set up the entire system so
that none of its parts explodes. And sometimes removing pressure from one
place means adding it to another.

------
nathanbarry
Such a great interview. It's fascinating to see how different education styles
can have such a big impact.

While homeschooling isn't the right fit for everyone, I was homeschooled and
it had a huge impact on me. My habits now for constant learning, working to
complete tasks quickly, building projects with my hands (remodeling,
woodworking, etc), and my desire to start companies all came from the time and
energy that my parents put into crafting a unique education for me.

I'm so excited to see more and more parents considering homeschooling their
kids.

~~~
mc32
One of the biggest advantages as well as disadvantage of homeschooling I think
would be limiting the amount of school induced brainwashing.

I don’t mean they make kids into automatons, but there is a tendency to _tell_
kids this is right and that is wrong along ideological lines without allowing
kids to discover those things for themselves.

I’m talking about things like tax policy, education, religion, government,
etc.

For example, kids are indoctrinated to believe if they get good grades they
can go to college and they’ll be set. That government is there to take care of
you, that the education system is good, etc.

So these kids graduate, go to college, university and then wonder why after
doing all that their humanities or business classes don’t land them jobs.

They should be allowed to discover more and question the whole system more.
Some should be tracked for vocational schools rather than everyone expecting
they are fit to work anywhere they desire... its unrealistic.

~~~
DavidVoid
I feel like this would be a strong argument against homeschooling (and private
religious schools for that matter). Because if they're home-schooled then
they'll get exposed to fewer people from different social backgrounds than
themselves, and that would reasonably reduce the amount of "brainwashing".

~~~
mc32
It depends for sure. However most households have a diversity of friends and
the kids do have to go in group outings. Besides, depending on school district
your claim might not be accurate (ie you may attend a school full of rich
brats, you may attend a school full of ne’er do wells, or a school where
everyone is on the lunch program) neither broadens horizons).

Religion might be a problem with strictly religious parents, but I don’t see
the damage being worse than that done by school systems. I experienced way too
many friends who didn’t fit in and dropped out and other kids who believed in
the system and believed things their teachers told them.

------
laurademing
Hi guys! This is Laura :) - everyone here is really cool and I can't believe
this made the front page of HN so just wanted to drop my email here in case
anyone wants to catch up on longevity stuff or other cool science discussion -
ldeming.www@gmail.com. Sorry, I just really love geeking out and this seemed
like a good place to find more thought buddies. Anyway, I love talking about
most interesting things (physics / how computers work / all the stuff I don't
know) so if you're down for it drop me a line!

(not sure how to verify but that's the email associated w all my public stuff
/ twitter posts so hopefully that's enough)

~~~
d136o
There seems to be research exploring links between blood sugar regulation
(diabetes) and aging. I guess that shows up in metformin <-> aging
correlations/links.

Do you have pointers to research linking liver function to diabetes and
perhaps to aging research.

It’s known that non alcoholic fatty liver is common in people who will develop
type 2 diabetes. But the link is not well understood. (There doesn’t seem to
be a consensus on how the two are linked?).

Any solid references would be helpful, I’ve only found older nature reviews
from 2006 and 2010. Maybe that’s the state of understanding but curious to get
any additional pointers.

Asking for a friend :)

~~~
zanybear
Peter Attia talks about metformin
([https://peterattiamd.com/](https://peterattiamd.com/)) also in the context
of exercise and I've heard Dave Asprey
([https://daveasprey.com/)talking](https://daveasprey.com/\)talking) about it.

------
specrux
Given that her family inherited the Murphy Oil fortune (Tulane's Department of
Medicine is named after them), it's not that surprising she would have
exemplary homeschooling resources

~~~
1123581321
She doesn’t describe anything expensive or exclusive. Homeschooling typically
does not have a cost beyond materials. What struck you as exemplary?

~~~
morelisp
Come off it, she had access to a research lab at age 12! Even she said it's
extraordinary.

> I really felt like I got a cheat code to life early on. It was like being
> Ben Franklin’s daughter or something... When I first met Cynthia Kenyon... I
> was 12. She very kindly offered for me to just work in her lab as a normal
> intern,

~~~
1123581321
That opportunity is certainly extraordinary. We probably disagree on whether
it’s normal for wealthy homeschooled children or should even be thought of as
part of a school cirriculum.

------
scandox
> But with longevity and other deeply existential problems, the horror of
> what’s happening has been tragically normalized.

I will never understand this attitude. Why don't we see how valuable aging and
death are? How can we possibly reframe this as a "horror". The horror is this
idea that personal identity can go on indefinitely. Aging is a process of
coming to terms with death. None of this is being "tragically normalized".
What's being normalized is the idea that we can have everything we want all
the time forever without any spiritual or material costs.

~~~
JoshTriplett
> Why don't we see how valuable aging and death are?

Because they're horrific tragedies that we should be fighting tooth and nail
until they're extinguished and nobody ever has to deal with them again. They
should be consigned to the history books.

> Aging is a process of coming to terms with death.

Aging is a biological problem that we continue to debug. And nothing should
make us "come to terms" with being obliterated. If someone is attacking you,
you don't "come to terms" with your impending injury or death, you fight back.

When a problem has thus far been a seemingly immutable property of life, it
can be difficult to envision a world where that property has been overcome. It
can be difficult to even _see it as a problem_. And it's understandable that
people's first instinct is to somehow justify the status quo, that there must
be a _good reason_ that 150,000 people die every day. One step towards
_solving_ the problem is to reset that expectation, to get people to recognize
the problem as a problem rather than a "fact". In the meantime, progress will
continue to be made by people who see it as a problem, but far too slowly
without more widespread support. Every day longer it takes is 150,000 people
lost.

~~~
dekhn
This sort of leaves out the reality that decomposing bodies are a critical
part of the ecosystem, and that eliminating death in humans would have huge
ecological consequences beyond just the nutrients of decomposing bodies.
If/when you have reasonable solutions for overpopulation, massive resource
consumption by advanced societies, and pollution, then we can talk about
longevity.

~~~
JoshTriplett
> This sort of leaves out the reality that decomposing bodies are a critical
> part of the ecosystem

Buy fertilizer. Of all the possible attempts at arguments that could possibly
be raised in support of letting people _continue to die_ , the last one I'd
expect is "those human lives are more valuable as rotting corpses to fertilize
plants".

> If/when you have reasonable solutions for overpopulation, massive resource
> consumption by advanced societies, and pollution, then we can talk about
> longevity.

1) There are documented studies that people have less children and do so less
quickly when they feel safer. And in any case, it's a _very big universe_ and
_this is not a reason to let 150000 people die every day_.

2) We can and have built more efficient ways to make use of resources, and we
will continue to do so. Killing off humans is not a reasonable way to solve
resource consumption problems. The primary _problem_ of excessive resource
consumption is that it threatens human lives, which makes it utterly self-
defeating to argue that humans should die so we use less resources.

3) Pollution is a serious problem. We've only got the one planet (for now),
and we need to take care of it and make sure it continues to support life and
help life flourish. So by all means let's solve that problem. Fortunately,
we've got billions of people, and we're capable of working on multiple massive
problems at once. (You might also recognize that one of the biggest problems
with pollution is people not acknowledging it as a problem; there's a parallel
here.)

4) People will continue to talk about longevity, and more importantly
_actually work towards fixing the problem_. Once people understand that we can
actually _do something about it_ , consciously choosing to _not do something
about it_ is a choice measured in lives lost, and inaction becomes far less
excusable. Trying to stop _other people_ from doing something about it is
tantamount to murder, in much the same way as trying to stop a doctor from
treating a patient.

~~~
majkinetor
We should fix health span first, not life span. I would rather live 80 like a
champ to the last day and then just drop dead, then few more years on
ibuprofen and friends.

~~~
JoshTriplett
They're heavily correlated, and nobody is talking about _just_ increasing the
length of life without also inherently making people healthier. People talking
about working on longevity are talking about giving you more years where you
feel 30 or 40, not just more years where you feel 90.

------
dannykwells
"Laura Deming, founder of the Longevity Fund, on being an heiress with nearly
infinite resources to pursue her dreams".

I think the homeschooling is likely second to being rich in terms of her world
view and success.

~~~
causality0
The article also describes her as a scientist and I'm struggling to figure out
why. According to Wikipedia she did lab assistant work at ages 12-13 but
dropped out of university after accepting a $100,000 Thiel Fellowship to
become a venture capitalist. If she does any actual longevity research work I
haven't been able to find it.

~~~
dannykwells
Yes exactly. Anyone rich can be a scientist with the right PR. This us the
postmodern dystopia we live in. (Alternatively, always has been like that, in
some sense.)

------
nimbius
>I grew up homeschooled in NZ with a hilariously small amount of context for
what the real world was like.

kind of a blunt take here but yeah, homeschooling will do that because its
limited to what your parents know. Public schools work to immerse kids in a
diverse environment with many people from many different walks of life. they
work to build soft skills like empathy, listening, and conflict resolution.
she says she taught herself "calculus and probability and statistics, and
French literature and history" betraying her heritage. The wealthy are
notorious francophiles (Fussell, Paul, "Class: A Guide Through the American
Status System")

Homeschooling may have played a part in her success, but money likely played
an even more prominent role in getting a twelve year old into UCSF and MIT
from half a world away. The average homeschooled kid is much more likely to
miss social cues, stumble through a difficult interaction with feckless
ineptitude, or even parrot their parents own myopic stereotypes or falsehoods.
Schools may teach "bullshit" to some, but they also arm kids with critical
thinking skills. the conflicting role of educator, caregiver, and lawgiver
projected by homeschool parents virtually guarantees kids will never rise to
challenge the education theyre given. Theyll learn only what theyre told.

~~~
jonstewart
Exactly—one anecdote about homeschooling doesn’t apply generally. In the US,
the average homeschooled kid is likely to be raised in a very religious family
with little to no science education.

~~~
pnw_hazor
Absent the religiosity, the same can be said for the average public schooled
kid.

------
joshfraser
I was homeschooled and it worked out well for me. You have to be intrinsically
motivated and have a deep curiosity about the world. Actually, all kids are
born curious but they lose it over time as adults get annoyed with all their
questions! I appreciated the freedom to blow an entire day learning about
something just because it was interesting. This turned out to be super
valuable for my career. Being homeschooled gave me the chance to play with
computers all day and I started coding at age 10. This gave me a huge head
start on my peers who didn't start coding until college. I also credit
homeschooling for teaching me to think outside the box. As a kid I always
complained about the social aspect and the lack of team sports. I found ways
to interact with other kids, but it took a lot of intentional effort. My mom
was an English teacher and my dad was an engineer, so they were reasonably
equipped for the task of giving me an education. It's not for everyone, but
I'm thankful I was homeschooled.

~~~
Aperocky
Glad it worked out for you, did you eventually went to college or were you
completely educated without institutions?

~~~
joshfraser
Yeah I gradated w/ a Computer Science degree from Clemson. My siblings all
graduated college as well.

------
newfeatureok
Is homeschooling actually better once you control for the types of people who
are capable of doing it? I would imagine a good chunk of people who homeschool
their children are incredibly active in their children's education, by
definition. These children I would argue, would be fine with or without
homeschooling.

Homeschooling also just seems unsustainable. Modern society generally requires
two parents to be working. Can an average family afford to homeschool their
children? At least in the USA, most indications give a pretty firm "no."

That being said, I really enjoyed this article. People definitely should have
more control over their education and how it relates to their own children's
needs.

~~~
vslira
Yeah, it seems like an anti-pattern. Also, it's supposedly better for children
to be educated by a great educator and most parents, like most people, are
not.

The fact of the matter is that the implicit assumption of many pro-
homeschoolers is that most professional educators - either for individual or
systemic reasons - are also not good educators, and would rather take their
chances. I can't entirely blame them.

~~~
AnimalMuppet
Well... If a child is "different" (Aspie, say), or bullied, or had serious
health issues, or even just really gifted, homeschooling might be the best
answer.

But even if none of those things is true, I keep hearing about classroom size
as one of the key determinants of educational outcomes. Well, what's the
classroom size for a homeschool? It's however many kids you have. Let's use
the standard family size, 2.3 kids. The average school classroom size is
around 20 in the US. Well, how much does 2.3 vs. 20 make up for the parent not
being a great educator? And what if the person with 20 isn't a great educator
either?

~~~
ksdale
I think this point is underappreciated. The key question isn't "Is a parent a
better teacher than a professional teacher?", the key question is "Can a
parent teach 1 or 2 or 3 of _their own_ children, better than a professional
teacher can teach 25?"

It seems like it should be a close call for the vast majority of parents, so
at the very least, the question of whether to homeschool should hinge on other
considerations.

------
rubidium
“One thing he (her father) told me was ‘action comes before motivation’ -
that’s always been an incredibly powerful thing in my life.“

Good advice!

~~~
ryandelk
Ha, yes this was my favorite line as well.

------
pnathan
Homeschooled, myself. Academically, I have a MS CS. My sibling has a PhD. It
worked, academically.

I don't particularly recommend it for anyone without substantial need. I would
put genius-level children at that level. We weren't geniuses.

I can imagine an... alternative... schooling coop which would work well. But
there are whole volumes of good behavior that I had to intake as a teen &
young adult that homeschooling had no ability to teach me.

Parents of homeschooled kids don't notice, I think. Because this is about
_peer_ behavior and interaction. Not child-parent interaction.

------
Havoc
>My dad just always told me that I was exceptional

I was under the impression that this runs contrary to current thinking.

i.e. Tell kids they're the best and they stop taking risks for fear of
failure. Rather encourage effort & persistence.

Anyway...sometimes I think the whole elite private schooling model are the
sweet spot. Actual effort goes into the teaching without the social isolation
that (often) comes with home schooling.

------
iamthepieman
We homeschool our 5 kids but sometimes I think we shouldnt. Something I tell
my wife, kids, parents, well wishers, hecklers and friends is that parents get
both too much and too little credit for how their kids turn out.

Stay involved. That's what homeschooling (done well) forces you to do. Ask
questions, allow failures, try (you WILL fail) to practice detachment, and
understand that you do not.

------
giacaglia
This is super interesting! I wonder what other homeschooled people think of
their experiences!

~~~
DLarsen
I enjoyed reading this recent post from Nathan Barry, which tells some of his
story:
[https://nathanbarry.com/homeschool/](https://nathanbarry.com/homeschool/)

~~~
nathanbarry
Thanks for sharing! Glad you enjoyed the article.

------
dgfitz
I was homeschooled and I have mixed feelings about it. I turned out very well
socially adjusted and I am very gainfully employed. I don’t have a specific
direction for this comment but I’m happy to answer questions if people have
them.

------
RickJWagner
I live in an area where homeschooling is fairly popular. There were some snide
remarks before Corona, but these days it seems like it's not looked down upon
so much.

------
barrkel
A lot of people talk about repairing decrepitude of the body, but what about
decrepitude of ideas and world views?

What if advancement depends on the death of people with outdated ideas?

~~~
philipkglass
About 0.7% of the American public dies each year:

[https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db355.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db355.htm)

An idea that sees its support changing substantially faster than 0.7% per year
is not primarily driven by older members of the public dying.

The original Civil Rights movement, the fight for gay marriage, cannabis
legalization -- all of these saw public acceptance shift _much_ faster than
population turnover can account for. Do you have examples in mind of trends
that actually required the die-off of older people?

~~~
barrkel
"Does Science Advance One Funeral at a Time?" \-
[https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/aer.20161574](https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/aer.20161574)

Another one is dictators. It seems like it took Franco's death for things to
change in Spain, and Salazar's brain hemorrhage to change things in Portugal.
Would Mubarak have been able to control the situation in Egypt if he was
physically younger?

~~~
TomMarius
Would people wait for their death if it was not coming?

------
boxcardavin
I also grew up in NZ idolizing Faraday. I feel sad to see obviously smart and
passionate folks like this with deep technical interests end up in venture so
young.

~~~
apsec112
I'd rather have smart, passionate people with deep technical interests judge
whether to fund my company than a dumb, lazy person who doesn't know math or
science :)

~~~
divbzero
Exactly, with her background and informed outlook [1] she’s probably picking
up on ideas that other investors would miss. In addition, being in venture now
doesn’t preclude direct involvement in research or startups in the future.

[1]:
[https://www.ldeming.com/longevityfaq](https://www.ldeming.com/longevityfaq)

------
dnprock
I think the homeschool movement has become too extreme. You can do homeschool
if you want. But you also need to learn from others. The school system does
help. I went to a 4-year university. I got a degree in Computer Science. I
think it's very valuable. It helped me build a good career. I would say half
of the professors were solid.

At school, after lectures, we have to do homework. It's a practice to get a
deeper understanding of the knowledge. Then we have to take test. It's a
validation of our understanding. People certainly cheat their ways through
college. But if you are into learning, you can learn a lot.

Laura Deming mentioned that she had a hard time with entropy. I think this is
because of not having a formal education. Entropy is an overloaded term. It
means different things in different fields. In physics, it means one thing. In
information theory, it means another thing. If Laura had gone to a university
to study the concepts in different classes, she would have grasped the
concepts. Laura is likely a generalist thinker, polymath. That's why she has a
hard time digging into deep concepts. To really understand them, you need to
practice (homework) and validate (test).

I work in cryptocurrency space. Vitalik is another generalist, polymath
thinker. He makes some wild claims like quantum computer can break Proof of
Work. If you study Computer Science, you'd see how dubious this claim is.

You don't know what you don't know.

Schools are good for teaching you what you don't know. Both Vitalik and Laura
come out of the Thiel Fellowship. When you are young and got chosen by a
billionaire, it may have gotten you hype up about your intellect. You buy into
your billionaire's view. You think professors are idiots. Nowadays, social
media give people a microphone. So they get even more indulgence. They see
themselves already successful.

I think the young generation, like Laura and Vitalik, is talented. But they
live in the fame bubble too early. Albert Einstein had this problem. He was an
early achiever. He made his important discoveries when he was young. Those
achievements became burden. He had a hard time with quantum mechanics. He
spent endless time with the theory of everything. He was miserable in his
later life.

I teach my kids at home after their public school time. When they grow up, I
hope there're still good universities for them to go. Go to school, take some
test, you'd see how much you really understand.

------
throwawaysea
Homeschooling is a very important freedom for parents to retain. Otherwise,
parents are increasingly at risk of not being in control of how their children
are raised. Schools and colleges are increasingly politicized and are being
used by politicians and activists to instill certain values into children
early on. Those values are derived from whomever has the most power in a given
jurisdiction.

For instance, in Seattle there is a push from activists to introduce
progressive politics into schoolrooms, to influence children's culture and
values beyond what is appropriate. It started with the NAACP pressuring
Seattle Public Schools to introduce ethnic studies into their K-12 curriculum
([https://www.king5.com/article/news/education/seattle-
school-...](https://www.king5.com/article/news/education/seattle-school-board-
passes-ethnic-studies-resolution/454537210)). Then the school board proposed
converting subjects like math into propaganda channels for social justice
politics ([https://reason.com/2019/10/22/seattle-math-oppressive-
cultur...](https://reason.com/2019/10/22/seattle-math-oppressive-cultural-
woke/)). Now they're planning to include gender identity material as early as
Kindergarten ([https://mynorthwest.com/1676789/rantz-mandatory-sex-ed-
kinde...](https://mynorthwest.com/1676789/rantz-mandatory-sex-ed-kindergarten-
washington/)). In each instance, I see that the parents' role is being
overridden by the state, going far beyond the mandate of core education and
clearly into the realm of controversial politics.

I am not trying to just single out Seattle or progressive politics, mind you.
It's just what I'm most familiar with. In Arkansas some schools teach that the
age of Earth is a controversial topic
([http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/201...](http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2014/01/creationism_in_public_schools_mapped_where_tax_money_supports_alternatives.html)).
And outside the US as well, governments use education as a means to undermine
parents and steal away their children's minds, turning them into willing
adopters of the government's values/culture/politics
([https://www.hrw.org/report/2020/03/04/chinas-bilingual-
educa...](https://www.hrw.org/report/2020/03/04/chinas-bilingual-education-
policy-tibet/tibetan-medium-schooling-under-threat)).

Homeschooling and school choice more broadly (like charter schools) are the
antidote to having children propagandized. Homeschooling is generally very
successful, to the point that it is viewed by some as a threat to public
education ([https://reason.com/2019/01/22/homeschooling-produces-
better-...](https://reason.com/2019/01/22/homeschooling-produces-better-
students/)) and now there are activist researchers claiming that homeschooling
is vector for child abuse despite evidence to the contrary
([https://www.educationnext.org/harvard-law-professors-
attack-...](https://www.educationnext.org/harvard-law-professors-attack-on-
homeschooling-flawed-failure-terribly-timed/)). I hope people take note and
fight to retain their rights as parents.

~~~
uticus
The focus of this comment struck me. Seems to me that education of children
involves influence - even a "hands-off" approach influences, no? So, apart
from questions about physical safety and measurable/occupational skills
taught, these points seem to touch on the greater question of who or what
should be an influencer, and to what degree?

Western culture (my personal background) has seen shifts in answers to this
question over the past centuries... and not in isolation from other shifts in
viewpoints about cultural interactions.

Are we going in a direction that is good? All I can say for sure is that it
becomes increasingly easy for me to focus on myself and current times while
ignoring children and what they will grow into, and increasingly harder for me
to understand the reasons my parents, grandparents, etc thought and reasoned
the way they did. Again, a slice of the world, but if my experience is
widespread, that surely affects how decisions about education are currently
being made.

~~~
Mirioron
This is an off-topic point, but perhaps this TED talk by James Flynn might
give you a perspective to understand why your parents and grandparents tought:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vpqilhW9uI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vpqilhW9uI)

It posits the idea that the way of thinking back then was different, because
they had to overcome different cognitive challenges from us today. This would
shape how people back then viewed the world.

