
Ask YC: Dealing with post startup depression - poststartup
Hi, I recently shut down my first startup ever. I am having a really tough time getting over it and starting all over again. A feeling of extreme weakness and failure has  taken all over me , clouding my judgement. Any tips on getting back to normalcy would be highly appreciated.
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r7000
In all seriousness, take a break. It doesn't have to be for a long time, just
enough to refresh your mental outlook. Travel a bit, even just to visit a
friend in a fun city or somewhere to enjoy the outdoors. Get away from your
computer. Be patient. Allow yourself to be human.

~~~
wheels
If you're the sort that gets into backpacking, that's what I always tend to
use as a mental reset. It's a mix of getting to be challenged by a new set of
problems and putting yourself in a social situation where you can reinvent
yourself. Leave the laptop at home. :-)

I ran into Adam last year in a $3-a-night hostel in Egypt. He's got some
decent tips for nerds wanting to get out for a bit:

<http://geekeasy.com/travel/articles.html>

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samratjp
Don't run away! I am in your shoes right now. Yes, I had to shut down too.
But, it has been the greatest growth I have ever made. Why? because you have
to " 'real'ize" that no matter where you go or who you talk to, the depression
is in yourself, not out there. If I were you, I'd focus on what to do right
now with your feelings, not the next big thing quite yet. You have to live
with what depression means to find normalcy, otherwise it will be a background
process throughout whatever you may do, thereby hurting you more.

I'd like you to ask yourself one question, what is your definition of success?
Remember, if you had a blast doing what you did, then there is no point in
regret. Hey, if you had a miserable time doing whatever it is you did, it's
great now that you are out of it.

Bottom line: learn to live with yourself, everything else will fall in place.

~~~
dpapathanasiou
_because you have to realize that no matter where you go or who you talk to,
the depression is in yourself, not out there. If I were you, I'd focus on what
to do right now with your feelings, not the next big thing quite yet._

Very well said.

This is worth reading: <http://shadow.wordpress.com/2006/06/28/297/>

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utnick
the best scorers in basketball have whats called shooters amnesia. They don't
think about the shot they just missed. It isnt part of their reality. Focus on
the next thing. don't tie your self esteem to your last shot

~~~
dmv
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVXiG6oy5eo>

"I have missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I have lost almost 300
games. On 26 occasions I have been entrusted to take the game winning shot...
and missed. And I have failed over and over and over again in my life."

In my experience, the best athletes have a spooky accurate memory of
failure... post-game. They figure out what went wrong, every time it went
wrong, even if the overall result was success. So it is not amnesia, it is
just a failure to influence their present action.

~~~
mechanical_fish
_So it is not amnesia, it is just a failure to influence their present
action._

This reminds me of my college friend who spent much of his spare time climbing
the outsides of campus buildings, smokestacks, _et al._.

Then one day he claimed to be afraid of heights, which made me laugh. "How can
you be afraid of heights when you're constantly taking risks at high
altitude?", I asked. His response was something like: "Oh, I'm afraid. But I
can ignore that and keep going."

~~~
shiranaihito
Didn't you consider his behaviour a bit peculiar?

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ericb
Congrats--you got one under your belt. Take a break. Then analyze it, learn
from it, and iterate. Figure out why it failed, and avoid that trap the next
time. Deliberate Practice makes perfect:

[http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006/...](http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006/10/30/8391794/index.htm)

~~~
waldrews
It took me years of brooding in a corporate job to get over my first failed
startup. But people aren't kidding when they say it's valuable experience;
I've seen enough entrepreneurs who didn't fail soon enough or often enough.
Their first big idea happened to stay alive long enough that they lost the
fear and thought they were going to go all the way; they weren't sufficiently
paranoid and able to think in contingencies. Then, failure came when they
already had plenty of people depending on them; they became bitter and never
recovered their spirit.

Guy Kawasaki gives experience in startup failure +3 points on his venture
capital aptitude test:
<http://blog.guykawasaki.com/2006/11/the_venture_cap.html>

But the economy being what it is, don't wait too long if you want a decent
choice of corporate jobs.

------
lisper
Exercise. Seriously. Endorphines are really good for putting life in
perspective.

~~~
herdrick
You said it. Weight training is especially good for this.

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fiaz
Stop thinking that any single project will bring you success. Your goal should
be to go through this process as many times as is necessary, from beginning to
end.

Even if your first project is a smashing success, the chances are high that
you will want to go through the process of starting something new again (and
with this process comes the possibility of risking failure -- don't forget
this!). There should be no difference with the outcome with any project.

Embrace your failures as they will teach you better and more thoroughly than
anybody on a message board!

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phony_identity
This is an evolved response, made for the paleolithic era. Your brain thinks
your tribe was just conquered by the neighboring tribe, and that your women
and livestock have been taken. Evolution thinks you're lucky to be alive, and
the best way to preserve that is to lay low for a while and be submissive as
possible. The mechanism by which is does this is by temporarily cutting your
testoterone level. Your T is low, so you feel low and hopeless and the world
seems a bit grey.

That was the smart move 50,000 years ago. Not now. You need to do things that
bring the testosteroone back: hard exercise, especially weightlifting. Try to
arrange for plenty of small, guaranteed wins in anything you're good at: video
games, basketball, trivial pursuit, whatever. Get lots of sunlight! That's an
easy one that boosts testosterone. There are probably other things that boost
T. Google.

Bravo for asking this question. Great job in doing a startup in the first
place. Consider this a hearty slap on the back.

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zenlinux
Get some exercise and take care of yourself (probably in ways you neglected
while doing the startup). When you can internalize the fact that failure is
not a bad thing (as long as you learn from it), it will become easier to deal
with.

Finally, be proud of the fact that you ventured out and took some risks. Life
isn't meant to be spent hiding from potential failures.

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noodle
depends on what you consider "normalcy".

i'd consider trying to get a corporate job. being bossed around, having
structure and timelines, and not innovating much will fill your brain with
ideas and have you itching for a startup in no time.

edited to add: i'd also consider trying to find a job in another field if you
have the skill set or the means to potentially take a lower-paying job. taking
a break from the tech sector could definitely re-energize you.

------
powerflex
Even though it didnt make me rich, I consider my first startup to be
successful because I took it from idea to revenue.

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webwright
There is a hellacious amount of luck in startups. The best startup guys
generally admit that it was luck/market that was responsible for a huge part
of their success. Tremendous brains and a ton of effort is a big part of it,
too.

The founder of Del.icio.us was at a YC dinner last night and talked about all
of the miserable failures he had before Del.icio.us. Ev Williams had Pyra
Labs' product before Blogger and Odeo before Twitter.

Failure abounds. Drink it in, learn from it and dive into your next one.

Or, if it makes you miserable, get a real job and some fun hobbies-- no shame
in that!

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cbthiess
I failed at two startups before my current one, which is close to launch.
After each failure I took a break, feeling weak and like failure just like you
are. But time heals all wounds. Before too much time had passed (a couple
years) the excitement (and finances) had returned, and I jumped back in the
game. I feel much, much stronger for the experience of those 2 failed
startups. I don't regret them one bit. Sooner or later you'll probably feel
grateful and happy for the experience you had, failure or no. Why not start
now?

~~~
gloodnc
>> (and finances)

I've always wondered -- how does one recover from the financial setback of the
initial failure? In good times, this may be easier if one either has savings
or can quickly find a job to fall back on. But in times where jobs may be more
scarce, how does one get through this?

Also, do the subsequent funding rounds get easier or harder? Do subsequent
startup funds lean more towards VC or angel sources, assuming that one cannot
save as much for the next rounds for a self-bootstrap?

I completely understand that the emotional roller-coaster must be difficult to
overcome after the first setback, with a similar toll for a spouse/partner and
family. How do people also overcome the financial setbacks?

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SwellJoe
I've been there. Just remember that the best indicator of future success in
business is having tried before--even if you failed. In the valley, it's a
truism that VCs don't mind seeing a couple of failed companies in your past,
as long as it's clear that you learned something from them. There's even some
evidence that the same investors that gave you money last time (and you lost)
are actually more likely to invest in your new company than someone they've
just met who has no record of failure. Weird, huh? Failure is practically a
virtue in high risk business like tech startups.

Take some time off, work on something else that's a little less stressful (I
did part-time contract work for a couple of companies that I enjoyed working
with--contract work pays well, and gives you lots of time off to relax), play
some video games, talk to girls/boys, learn a new language or to play a
musical instrument, read good books, enjoy time with your family/pets/friends.

In six months, or a year, you'll feel rested and ready to dig in again. It'll
actually come sooner if you have an idea that you really love. That is what
happened for me, though I had some downtime before finally giving up on my
previous business where I'd stopped selling the products that I'd always sold
and started slowly evolving the business into something else--but I was
accepting no new clients, so the workload was quite low.

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ken
Oh hell no! The last time I posted something inspirational here, somebody sent
it to the Seattle Tech Startups mailing list, and in a couple hours it went
from "inspirational Roosevelt quote" to "Teddy killed Indians" to "well
Jefferson owned slaves" to "early philosophers were child molesters" to "why
don't you go quote Hitler then" to "I'm glad my ancestors didn't kill any
Indians" to "I looked up your family name on Wikipedia and your ancestors
murdered Indians too".

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iamelgringo
Sorry to hear that things didn't work out.

The thoughts from others on taking some time off, getting into a different
head-space are very good. Getting some exercise, seeing some shows, travel,
eating some decent food, all good ideas if you have the cash for them.

If I spend too many days in front of the computer, I start to go stir crazy.
I've had to force myself to stop and pick up some genre fiction and history
books that I used to enjoy reading recently.

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krishna2
Think about it this way : You got about 10-20% of the total and about (70-80%
of the grunt) work done for your next startup. :)

You have your servers, source code repository, development environment,
bug/feature tracking stuff and all that ready. Heck, you might even have got
the logging in, authentication, monitoring and all that done as well.

I would go so far as to say : Everyone should do a dummy startup just to get
all the above straightened out. :)

------
yan
THE ROAD TO WISDOM? Well, it's plain and simple to express. Err and err and
err again, but less and less and less. — Piet Hein.

If you look at anyone successful, the reason you know about them is rarely
their first endeavor. Everyone can start and and shut down a start up, but
people that continue that cycle are those that succeed.

------
huhtenberg
While it is hard to give a personalized advice on coping with a depression,
you still can benefit from the failure. As others said - _learn from it_.

Specifically, if you are doing something that you have a little experience
with (like, say, starting a business), it is generally a good idea NOT to
assume it will work out. Better yet, treat as a wild card experiment with a
great risk of failure. Approach it as something that you are trying out and
using to learn what works and what does not. Very few people can succeed on
unfamiliar grounds and it is almost always a matter of luck. Far more people
succeed through trial and error. So learn from the mistakes and try again.

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sarosh
Play. This may sound like completely ludicrous, but it is what helped me. I
loved the startup I was with. Amazing people, neat technology and an overall
spectacular environment. The only defect was that the customers weren't there.
So I left and right afterwards, I felt horrible. Eventually, I found myself
also in a cloudy dysfunctional haze. So I decided to 'play.' For me that meant
going back to school to learn random things that interested me (from
linguistics, to art, music, architecture, Greek mythology, puzzles, maps,
ornithology, hang gliding, etc.). While things didn't get better right away,
they did improve significantly over time.

Take heart; this too shall pass.

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deathbyzen
Learn and grow from the experience. Having to close up shop is like breaking
up with your girlfriend. Get over her, but also learn from the things you did
wrong. Give it some time, take a sabbatical.

Don't go burying your head in a carton of Breyer's though.

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jdvolz
You failed. Own it. It happened. Who are you worried will find out? The people
who love you already know who you are and they don't care; they still love
you. The people who don't love you probably don't matter.

I agree about exercise and a change of pace in your lifestyle (backpacking,
academia, even a day job). The important thing though is to realize this isn't
even near the worst thing that could have happened. You can still try again.
Only this time, you have more information and are better prepared to deal with
adversity. This sort of thing is hard for everybody.

I look forward to reading your new startup beta announcement soon.

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sadiq
I tend to recall Kipling's poem If, crucially:

"If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster And treat those two impostors just
the same;"

<http://www.kipling.org.uk/poems_if.htm>

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EGreg
Read about Hershey and Edison :)

Taking a break is a really good idea. Not a long one, but something that makes
you clear your head, focus on your body and your health, and starting missing
creating cool stuff. If your mind's constantly occupied with day-to-day
concerns, you can be overwhelmed and it's hard to regain focus.

If you can afford it, change your scenery a bit and go hiking or get away to a
beach for a week, 'til you get bored of it.

What is your goal in making a startup? If you can get a continual sense of
reward from accomplishing these things, that'll keep you going :)

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tej
Hey, just relax and take a break for a week. Visit your favorite vacation spot
and meditate for an hour everyday! This will grant mental strength and will
improve your concentration. Look for a place where you can go for a swim and
enjoy good food. You need to sleep well and keep yourself physically active.
Doing this, I am sure you'll return back to normalcy, and then you can analyze
your failure with an open mind and a positive attitude.

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peterb
You are in mourning. Emotionally it is similar to experiencing a death or
divorce. Give yourself a little time to mourn in whatever way is good for you:
have a good cry, get really drunk, beat the shit out of a wall, whatever.
Failure sucks, now get over it. Your company's failure was not your failure.
Learn from it, you are not invincible, now move on.

To use the old cliche: what doesn't kill us makes us stronger.

------
prakash
Take time to reflect, Figure out what gaps you need to fill and then launch
another startup. Remember, you only have to get it right once!

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indus
Take a break. Go for a jog. One technique which has worked form me is looking
at a brand new problem and coding for it.

I would also recommend reading: * blog.pmarca.com * Founders At Work * Startup
by Jerry Kaplan (old tome but a good read) * Bhagvad Gita, an ancient Hindu
scripture which talks about work, victory, defeat (I can lend you a copy)

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aschobel
Microsoft toiled away in obscureness for over half a decade before landing the
IBM DOS deal. Having perspective and realistic goals is helpful, there are a
lot of good books on this topic (Startup: A Silicon Valley Adventure, Founders
at Work).

What problem did you try to solve with your startup?

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edw519
Take a break.

Then, whenever you're ready, come back here and talk about it. That's what
we're here for. Even though you're only 2 hours old here, you're already a
veteran. Share your lessons with us and take what you need. I think you'll be
pleasantly surprised how you'll feel then.

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daldous
Accept failure and work in small bits. Focus on a very small part of your life
and make sure you excel at it: ribbon and cherry on top with a blue medal for
tying your shoes. Take each day one step at a time. It's not easy but you
don't have to swallow it all at once.

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gruseom
I found this book to be a rich source on how to get value out of this kind of
painful experience.

[http://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Higher-Success-Vernon-
Howard/d...](http://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Higher-Success-Vernon-
Howard/dp/0911203508)

------
pistoriusp
Allow yourself to be human and realise that everyone fails. Get back on the
pony and accept it for what it was: A learning experience, as is everything in
life.

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tlrobinson
This might not help, but now that you've failed you can take comfort in the
fact that most startups do fail.

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jeffrese
drink heavily for three weeks while watching lots of TV. At end of third week
go to the gym, get on a treadmill and think about what your next business will
be. Come up with idea, get off treadmill and run with it.

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ucdaz
It's not how you failed; it's how you get up. Keep pressing on

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aggieben
any blog entries or anything describing what you did and what led to your shut
down?

I hope to avoid learning this kind of thing the hard way...

------
mroman
I have been there, and you will only get better from here on. Let go of the
emotions. Put the thoughts on hold.

Stay away from your machine. Go somewhere for a couple of weeks. Exercise. Eat
well. Sleep well. Drink a bit of wine even. Have sex. Be human.

No guilt.

No regrets.

You'll be fine.

