
A ranking of the highest tech salaries in the US, adjusted for cost of living - dangrover
https://qz.com/1195354/tech-salaries-in-austin-texas-are-effectively-66000-higher-than-in-nyc-thanks-to-the-cost-of-living/
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joshuamorton
Naively adjusting CoL like this always over-corrects and favors lower cost
places. This would only be a valid comparison if you saved exactly $0 each
year. If you are able to save a portion of your income (as hopefully anyone
with any of these salaries is), linear comparisons don't make sense.

You need to compare the difference in CoL as the percentage of that salary
that goes towards CoL. In other words, if you save 50%, to keep the same
standard, you need to CoL adjust only the other 50% (and maybe a bit more to
keep your emergency fund weighted).

 _grumble_

~~~
sotojuan
> You need to compare the difference in CoL as the percentage of that salary
> that goes towards CoL.

Great insight. Here in NYC, I know a few frugal programmers who share a 2
bedroom with a friend such that he pays about 25% of his income in rent
(that's A LOT of money to save/enjoy life with). Another is nearing 40% but
because he prefers living alone. And there's always the "I want to live like
they did in Friends/I want a 10 min commute" coworker that spends 60%+ on
rent.

These kind of studies make it seem like most people live like the latter, when
my personal experience as an engineer in NYC, the city is not unaffordable at
all ... unless you want to own property ASAP. Honestly, what I've learned is
that COL discussions are hard because people spend money differently and value
different things.

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sambrand
This reflects more or less what we found, in 2016, in the Stack Overflow
Developer Survey:

[https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2016#salaries-
and-...](https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2016#salaries-and-rent-per-
city)

TLDR: Move to Montreal.

~~~
nadezhda18
glad to read your conclusion! I live in Montreal and I do think it has a
surprisingly low CoL combined with a high-quality lifestyle. Glad to see it is
confirmed by your data.

I personally live in a 3 bedroom apt I rent for $635 a month ($795 if taking
into account the electricity used for heating) and the apt is located 25 min
by public transportation (foot + metro) away from downtown.

~~~
aphextron
>I personally live in a 3 bedroom apt I rent for $635 a month ($795 if taking
into account the electricity used for heating) and the apt is located 25 min
by public transportation (foot + metro) away from downtown.

Wow thats incredible. What are salaries like though?

~~~
calcul_integral
For junior back-end node.js dev (right out of school) it was between 50-55k
CAD a year ago from offers from gaming places I've got, although video game
companies (very big in MTL) are known to pay a bit less and compensate with
lifestyle/cool job.

Seniors can certainly reach 100k+.

 _edit_ Another offer I got, Entry level Production Support at a bank pays 60k
with 3 weeks of vacations. Deloitte also had a job of customizing ERP for
clients in similar $ range if you're interested in corporate stuff.

All of the above example are for <1 year of experience.

As far as actually getting a job I would say it's very easy, even with little
experience. A LOT of companies (tech and non-tech) are looking for talent and
you easily get offers, although top/elite companies are mostly similar to the
US in term of selection.

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SwellJoe
I suspect studies like this trail reality by a few years. Austin cost of
living, particularly housing, has sky-rocketed in recent years. It's still
obviously much cheaper than Silicon Valley, but it's not cheap compared to
surrounding major Texas cities like Houston or Dallas.

It may still be a good balance of salary to cost of living, and probably is
since most tech hubs are also very expensive. But, it's not like it once was
(I first bought a house there in the early 2000s, and have rented, and shopped
for real estate, there on a number of occasions since then).

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analyst74
These kind of CoL comparisons have obvious flaws as pointed out by other
comments. I brushed them off when moving from Toronto to SF, only to realize
later how accurate they are, if you don't plan to dramatically reduce your
living standard.

On a side note, there are legit reasons why most people try to keep up their
appearances as opposed to live frugally and save every penny.

~~~
chocolatebunny
Hey I did the same thing late last year. I gave up a bungalow I payed $1200 a
month (bought it 2011) for for a one bedroom apartment I pay $2400 a month
for. Yay! But I live alone so a 50% boost in income offsets the doubling in
housing costs (I think). And honestly, outside of housing (and healthcare) I
don't really see anything else being too crippling.

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adverbly
There is no way that 73k in Toronto is the same as 153k in San Fran. I wonder
if the 73k is in CAD or USD... Regardless, the average home in Toronto is
around $1m CAD, plus you lose a bit more to taxes because you live in Canada.
I have a hard time believing that things are 3-4X as expensive in San Fran.
Are people really paying $60 for a burger?

~~~
jjeaff
Average Toronto home value is $775k to the Bay area's $825k. Don't know how
the other stuff compares though.

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souprock
The entire list is expensive cities. This is a typical problem for such lists.
It's easy to ignore nearly all of the country.

Austin did best, but that isn't cheap.

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paulddraper
This entirely depends on what you spend your money on.

Suppose NYC real estate is 8x the cost compared to my current city of Lehi,
Utah.

* If I want a large house with a yard, I'll pay $500k with $1.8k/month mortgage in Lehi, or $4 million with $14.4k/month mortgage in NYC.

* If I want to share a smallish apartment, I'll pay $400/month in Lehi, or $3.2k/month in NYC.

Non-real estate items like groceries, gas, and gym memberships are not 8x more
in NYC. (They're more, but not that much more.)

\---

So.....what am I comparing? Good housing, or good transportation, or good
hobbies, good savings, etc.? I'm assuming the measurement averages these, but
people prioritize and consume these different than the average.

If you live in a cardboard box and save most of your pay check, you'll get an
overall pay raise in NYC.

~~~
aphextron
>* If I want to share a smallish apartment, I'll pay $400/month in Lehi, or
$3.2k/month in NYC.

That's not even remotely realistic. $3,200/mo in NYC will get you a luxury 1bd
in Manhattan. $1500 is more like it for a small studio or roommate situation.

~~~
paulddraper
(1) NYC has rent controls but not property value controls, so that does throw
things off.

(2) Perhaps I should have done the numbers with 4x. The idea is the same.

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svachalek
Another thing to consider about CoL comparisons is local lifestyles. Those who
are living in SF or NYC are probably out of the house enjoying local nightlife
a lot, those in warm sunny places are probably out enjoying nature, while
those living in cold suburbs probably spend a lot more time on home and
hobbies. So, in some places you can buy a lot more house while in others you
need a lot less house. In places where housing is expensive there's also a lot
less peer pressure to have a big house; it's not like all your coworkers in a
SF startup are talking about their 4 bedroom ranch houses.

~~~
deathanatos
> _it 's not like all your coworkers in a SF startup are talking about their 4
> bedroom ranch houses._

No, but they can't talk about something more reasonable, either; the price of
the majority of the Bay Area's housing exceeds the income of the majority of
Bay Area engineers.

(This assumes a median house price of ~$750k (cf, [1]), and an unwillingness
to pay 45% of your after-tax income in housing.)

[1]: [http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/12/29/bay-area-
median-...](http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/12/29/bay-area-median-home-
price-november-2017/)

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dmode
These cost of living calculators are severely flawed. It fails to capture that
RSUs form a significant % of compensation in the Bay Area. It also fails to
capture the exponential impact of high dual income. Also, fails to account for
rapid income gain from real estate appreciation. Finally, fails to account for
the ability to switch jobs quickly and climb corporate ladder.

~~~
jjeaff
The average silicon valley programmer is not taking advantage of the rapid
gain improperly values. On the contrary, they can't afford to buy so they
rent... And their rent goes up every year as values skyrocket.

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moltar
How’s Toronto double of what it is adjusted? Toronto living is not that low.
It is in real estate bubble, and food is expensive compared to US. No way
that’s accurate.

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ablekh
Since when Atlanta is not a major metropolitan area? Based on a super quick
research, I would expect ATL to, at least, lead the chart, if not land at its
top.

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purplezooey
Nice to see San Diego up there. Thinking of moving there after 10 years here
in the bay.

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electricslpnsld
Unfortunately one meal at Franklin Barbecue, while delicious, will immediately
exhaust any extra savings one might accrue through the cheaper cost of
housing.

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RhysU
True, but the HEB tortillas are so cheap it's a wash.

