
KeyMe – Copy keys and solve lockouts - Duhck
https://key.me/
======
qwerty_asdf
This would be awesome, except for the fact that my landlord installed a "Mul-
T-Lock" with "DO NOT DUPLICATE" instructions on all tenant keys, to prevent
over-occupied apartments, unauthorized sublets, and squatters.

[http://www.mul-t-lock.com/](http://www.mul-t-lock.com/)

And, guess what I tried: grinding off the "DO NOT DUPLICATE" instructions with
an angle grinder, and getting copies made anyway.

I walk into the hardware store, and ask the clerk for a copy. The guy glances
at it, and gives me a funny look, and says:

    
    
      You got the card?
    
      Card? Uh... Ah, nah man, not on me.
    

Pause and a long look...

    
    
      Okay, $25 bucks. Pay in cash.
    

...long pause. I look at the key prices, and a Mul-T-Lock copy is priced at
$5. The guy's obviously inflating the price of the copy as an implicit bribe
to do something he's not supposed to do. Fuck it. Let's see where this goes.

5 minutes later and I have a copy that works perfectly.

Next week, the super changes the lock on the front door, distributes new keys
to all tenants and tells us that the master was reported stolen.

~~~
bjterry
In the future you will be able to just scan the key and then 3D print a
precise replica from the safety of your home.

~~~
qwerty_asdf
Sure, "in the future", but right now, most common 3D printers seem to only
operate with a precision of ~0.5 mm.

I've thought about trying to make a crude 3D printed copy now, with a current
generation printer, and polishing the ABS with acetone, to produce a higher
quality copy manually.

The resistance of the springs on my building's outer door lock give a pretty
smooth, low-resistance action that plastic (or maybe even wood, but not hard
wax or soap) might tolerate, but then I'm paying $3,000 for a copy...

~~~
Groxx
fwiw Shapeways claims 0.125mm on brass:
[http://www.shapeways.com/materials/brass](http://www.shapeways.com/materials/brass)

------
lawl
Slightly OT:

Is this type of key common in the US? A few years back I bought a lockpicking
set, and locks like these are incredibly easy to open without much training.

In Switzerland we have KABA locks pretty much everywhere. I don't know but I
think they're much harder to pick and I guess you can't reconstruct them out
of a photo because you don't know the depth of the holes.

Also you need the key and lock the door from the outside with it, so you can't
really lock yourself out. Doors that snap lock are incredibly rare here.

Photo:
[http://www.kaba.ch/media/466464/v6/resized535x-1/dunkelrot-f...](http://www.kaba.ch/media/466464/v6/resized535x-1/dunkelrot-
farbcode-01.jpg)

~~~
IvyMike
They are. But I honestly don't care that much, because when my home was broken
into, this is how they picked my lock:
[http://imgur.com/vN2LkNn](http://imgur.com/vN2LkNn)

Here is an alternate solution:
[http://imgur.com/inJp7zB](http://imgur.com/inJp7zB)

Yes, picking a lock is much quieter but the reality is most break-ins
emphasize the word "break".

~~~
JCE504
I worked as an apprentice locksmith from the middle of high school until I
graduated college - we always told people, standard locks should be looked at
only as a way to inconvenience a person from breaking in. If someone _really_
wants to break into your house, they are going to; it's only a matter of how
long it takes them to get in, and through what method. Granted, it was at this
point they would ask about security systems, which we also installed - but the
general principal still stands.

~~~
lawl
> _If someone really wants to break into your house, they are going to_

That's the basic principle of security. Be it crypto, physical security or
anything else.

You're always just buying time. So the question is how much time do you want
to buy.

If you can kick down the door in 2 seconds you just have a very low security
margin. Compare this with crypto where you measure security margins in years.
I'm just a bit baffled that it's _that_ low for apartments in the US.

You probably couldn't kick down most doors here. Well at least I couldn't.

------
uptown
They've been testing the market in 7-11's around NYC. They had a kiosk setup
in my local 7-11, and had some salespeople promoting the service for a few
months.

I have no idea how many people they signed up ... but the salespeople and the
kiosk are now gone. Anybody, from the neighborhood, that signed up expecting
to be able to go back to that kiosk to print a replacement key are out of
luck.

~~~
shotgoal813
I actually got locked out a week ago and went back to one of their kiosks. I
didn't see any of the salespeople from before either, but I was able to access
my key with my fingerprint and email. You can still get your key made if
you've registered before.

~~~
Shank
Created 9 minutes ago and this is the only comment? That's odd.

~~~
rkuykendall-com
You expect more than 1 comment for a 9 minute old account? People join
HackerNews, often because they finally have something to say in a comment
thread.

------
edwhitesell
Sounds like a pretty novel idea. Until you lose your phone, your key.me
account is hacked or any of a number of other things cause your data to get
into the wrong hands.

I'm not saying a physical key is perfect or doesn't have most of the same
issues (lost, theft, etc.), but why create a larger attack surface through a
medium you have potentially less control of?

~~~
andrewmunsell
Assuming you don't have an address tied to your account, the risk can be
mitigated somewhat. If you KeyMe account is hacked or phone is lost, it's
similar to losing the physical key itself-- the thief doesn't really know what
the key goes to.

But, if the KeyMe user database is hacked along with personal information
(billing address), then it becomes an issue.

Also, if you lose your phone and have emergency contact information (or can
lookup the address associated with the phone number), then the thief also
knows where to go.

~~~
carlmcqueen
Hopefully everyone has a locked phone, but if they have a stolen phone and
have gotten past the lock it is not hard to figure out someones home address
on their phone by looking around apps and looking at the contacts.

------
seddona
I did this as a fun project a while back
[http://dittokey.com/](http://dittokey.com/) .

I open sourced the app:

[https://github.com/andrewseddon/dittokey-
iphone](https://github.com/andrewseddon/dittokey-iphone)

and computer vision:

[https://github.com/andrewseddon/keyify](https://github.com/andrewseddon/keyify)

No production ready, complete hack, but it does work. The vision side is an
interesting problem. This was a while back and i was dealing with older
cameras. I should imagine with modern phone cameras it's a pretty simple
problem.

~~~
emhart
Oh, man! I saw this a while back and was very excited about it. I have a
project I've been working on off and on in my spare time that I'd love to talk
to you about if you'd be up for a conversation.

------
mikeryan
Just don't forget your keys and your phone.

My wife and I are looking into coded door locks (infant at home and the wife
is afraid of locking herself out and the baby in) and found there's a $219
dollar door lock you can open with your phone. May make more sense then this
solution.

[http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CPTD5AQ/?_encoding=UTF8&camp=178...](http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CPTD5AQ/?_encoding=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&linkCode=ur2&tag=kwikset-20)

~~~
abimaelmartell
Checkout this -> [https://lockitron.com/](https://lockitron.com/)

~~~
guptaneil
I assume OP is looking for an existing product, not one that might ship when
the moons of Jupiter align.

In all seriousness though, I've been waiting for my Lockitron for almost a
year now, and others have been waiting for much longer. At this point, there's
no way I can recommend Lockitron to anybody as anything more than a cool
concept.

~~~
CaveTech
They sent me an email telling me my unit "shipped" last July and would arrive
July 14-20th. 3 months later it still wasn't here so I sent an email, and the
response was basically, "Uh... we expected to ship it to you at that time, but
really we have no idea when we can actually ship it."

1 year after preorder they had to process the amazon payments preorders or
amazon would void them. So here I am almost 2 years since I preordered a
product that I've paid for, and they can't even give me an expected ship date.

Of course they continue to send marketing emails/self congratulatory
accomplishments about software updates and hardware fixes for a product that
doesn't exist.

~~~
akerl_
To their credit, they did offer the option to extend the authorization and not
charge you until it shipped.

~~~
CaveTech
But have never been upfront about that fact that it would likely take them 3
years to enter the market. Most of their email blasts are about them being
_right around the corner_

~~~
akerl_
Seriously? I expected the same thing I expect with most Kickstarter/similar
projects (and those make you pay up front): there will be delays, there will
be periods where you're more in the dark than you'd like to be, and it's gonna
be a while before you have a product in your hands.

------
kristopolous
They still called it a "kiosk"? I think I respect them for not going down that
pun road.

------
hoopism
Convenience vs Use Rate is off. I make keys maybe once every 5 years... am I
weird?

Lockouts are convenient for sure... but still the low occurrence rate makes
proactive sign up a tough proposition.

~~~
monkeynotes
This was my thought also. I get locked out maybe once a decade, I really don't
see the point in installing an app for that 'problem'. Chances are, by the
time I need this service I will have long forgotten about it and go down an
alternative commonplace route.

~~~
hoopism
If I ammortize the time, frustration and cost over a decade it's only
penny/seconds a day.

------
whyme
To me this is like posting my password on the wall so that I don't forget.

~~~
gvb
And writing the GPS location of the lock in question on the note. :-O

In a couple of months I expect to see a HN story that is a google search of
geotagged images of keys.

------
basseq
Fascinating, but I don't think I've ever been locked out of my house. CARS, on
the other hand, are another story. But in this day of laser-cut keys and
computer chips, this app won't be very helpful.

I am more interested in the DUPLICATION service, considering the failure rate
of keys I get from Home Depot, etc. (50% at best).

------
drdaeman
...And don't forget to link with Foursquare account, so we'll know when you're
on vacation overseas! Well, I'm obviously kidding, but I don't feel it's wise
to share key material just like that.

Guess, an encrypted file that's kept near the lock (like QR code kept at
friendly neighbor's place or in your own postbox) which is decrypted and shown
to a locksmith only when necessity arises would be a better idea. Unless,
well, you forget the passphrase (which has to be strong) to decrypt the key.

(Yep, they may kept data encrypted, and they probably do, but one has to trust
on their word for that.)

------
mbillie1
I think I'd rather go this direction:
[https://lockitron.com/](https://lockitron.com/) ... having my physical key
info backed up in my phone sounds fine, but I think I'd rather avoid physical
keys anyway, if possible. Despite the somewhat obvious fear of hacking/etc, I
still think digital security is much more secure than your average lock. You
can get a bump key for something like $1 online.

~~~
eksith
What if you lose your phone? Or what if, like these folks, you suddenly decide
you don't want a smartphone anymore?
[http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-01-16/news/ct-
flip-p...](http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-01-16/news/ct-flip-phone-
met-20140116_1_young-adults-smartphone-ownership-smartphone-users)

If having a physical key image stored elsewhere is a concern, then a keyless
combo lock is probably the simpler alternative. You just remember your key
code (hopefully) and don't need to carry anything besides your memory.

~~~
mikeash
If you lose your phone, then use your regular key to open the door.

If you lose _both_ , well, there's only so much you can reasonably protect
against.

~~~
eksith
Well, if I have to use a regular key, then there's no benefit to having a an
electronic lock.

And yes, I suggested a "keyless" code lock in case you lose the key ;)

In an emergency condition, the simplest action (the one with the fewest steps,
protocols or devices) you can take to recover completely is the best action.
Losing your key and phone while being chased by muggers (for example) is just
such an emergency. If you have enough faculties to remember your key code, you
can still enter your home even if you're naked.

I like to think of services like KeyMe, which I do think is a fantastic idea,
as an extra nicety during non-emergencies.

~~~
mikeash
The point is that you use your phone most of the time, but keep a key with you
as backup. More convenience, less risk.

Being able to get into my house immediately even after losing both phone and
keys is not a priority for me. If I'm being chased by a criminal near my own
house after losing my keys and phone, I'll just shout until the neighbors come
out.

------
jusben1369
Maybe the future of TaskRabbit becomes like Amazon. That is, you still sell a
fair few services (products) but where you really make money is as an umbrella
for all of these one use services that are starting up. Just go to TaskRabbit
to search for "pick up my dry cleaning. Send me a gluten free meal. Lost my
key please replace" and they route and take a cut to these services.

------
TrainedMonkey
With all the high quality optics on the market, what is stopping you from
taking a picture of a key that belongs to somebody else? I am also somewhat
surprised there is no legislature that prevents locksmiths from duplicating
keys without physical copy being present.

Otherwise this is pretty awesome idea, that unfortunately highlights that it
is high time our locks got more secure.

~~~
jordanbmeyer
Both Keyme and Keysduplicated.com makes sure you have pictures of both the
front and back of the key, so you can't just do a fly by picture of keys on a
table. They also have your CC and mailing address, which is more traceable
than just going to the hardware store.

------
jordanbmeyer
If anyone is interested in playing around with it, Keys Duplicated has an API
that you can use to make copies of keys from pictures:

[https://keysduplicated.com/API](https://keysduplicated.com/API)

Its perfect for businesses that need access to the home, like cleaning and
delivery services.

------
Farfromthehood
I thought about making an app like this and open sourcing it for the hell of
it. It wouldn't be too difficult to limit the scanning (read: image
recognition) to just 5 notch Kwikset and Schlage (standard/ residential) keys
and outputting the key's code to the user.

------
mrbill
I have a Kwikset pushbutton combo deadbolt. I can use either my key, a button
combo, or my ZWave-enabled home security system via my phone to unlock the
front door. Cost around $150 and took 10 minutes to install.

------
sinak
Similar service that was previously on HN:
[https://keysduplicated.com](https://keysduplicated.com)

They now have an API too, and are targetting commercial used.

~~~
gwendolynregina
This will scale much more quickly and has a better use case if applied to a
multi-person scenario indeed - where there is a need for one to grant someone
else physical access. Considering how many physical locks there still are,
despite the increasing usage of all the "smart locks" (biometric, mobile-
connected etc.), this can really be useful to the masses.

------
stephengillie
Great idea. How soon do you plan on having Android support?
[http://imgur.com/NsXyL2Q](http://imgur.com/NsXyL2Q)

~~~
keymeinc
[http://imgur.com/gallery/lirgYqz](http://imgur.com/gallery/lirgYqz)

------
najhr999
Couldn't a strange use this app to copy your key?

~~~
EvanAnderson
I'm sure they could, but that makes attacks only slightly more difficult.

It's fairly trivial to look at common key blanks and visually identify the
bitting (the "combination" of cut heights necessary to move the tumblers in
the lock to the shear line). Sometimes the key has the bitting stamped right
on it, numerically, too.

------
ufmace
I have a much easier solution for solving lockouts - only use deadbolt-type
locks. Once you go outside, you can only lock it with the key.

------
negamax
Have personally spent $70 for forgetting my keys inside. Not the worst money
spent but an expensive lesson nonetheless.

------
mschuster91
So, I pickpocket the key of $stupid_colleague at work. Then, I deliver it to
KeyMe to copy it... and place the keys back e.g. at the coffee machine, so
that $stupid_colleague finds them again (or I do a reverse pickpocket).

Later that night, or when I know the guy is on vacation, I empty his house.

Yay for thieves.

~~~
emhart
What part of that sequence of events were you unable to do before KeyMe or
KeysDuplicated?

~~~
mschuster91
The speed, the fact that I can supply the photos via an app so I basically
need only a minute with the keys (e.g. when the colleague is on the toilet and
leaves the keys on the desk), and the fact that there are no eyewitnesses.

A store clerk might be telling me to wait a bit for the key to duplicate, but
in reality call the cops on me; there are cameras in hardware shops which can
identify me and the bundle of keys and also there are other customers in the
store.

~~~
emhart
You can get a high quality wrist-impression of a key in a couple of seconds if
left alone with keys. You can even learn to sight read keys quite trivially. I
don't think its so much the speed you are talking about as, perhaps, the
accessibility of technique. I mean, if you can get a clean photo of a key, you
can reproduce it. It's a physical object, its just metal. One of the first
keys I ever made was from an old saw blade & just based on memory. Worked the
very first time.

So, I don't think these services really change the game at all, but perhaps
provide a new level of information to the general public?

Hopefully, as a rule, people would tend toward protecting their keys. Here's a
gorgeous Cartier key protector:
[http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/25421384_a-cartier-of-
lo...](http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/25421384_a-cartier-of-london-9ct-
gold-key) if you want to do it style.

------
Jemaclus
Seems safe.

------
zbruhnke
annnnd the app crashes for me

~~~
keymeinc
Sorry about that. We'll buy you a beer if you email us the details:
support@key.me

~~~
zbruhnke
email sent!

