

Just Say “No” To Mailing List Spam by Recruiters - dblock
http://code.dblock.org/just-say-no-to-mailing-list-spam-by-recruiters

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Peroni
I was getting ready to launch into a tirade about how we aren't all that bad
but I won't. Most of us are terrible and those that take advantage of a niche
usergroup for the purpose of acting as a middleman are literally throwing shit
at a wall and hoping some of it sticks.

London Ruby User Group has the same issue with recruiters posting vague job
descriptions but the issue is that despite this unwanted approach, they do get
results.

I have no idea how many people are on the MongoDB mailing list but if there
are more than 100 people I would be willing to bet my extortionate fee's that
they get at least five decent candidates emailing them asking for more
information and ultimately ending up being represented by the agency.

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mootothemax
Is there _really_ any need for the naughty-secretary "She uses MongoDB" image
at the top of this blog post?

~~~
dblock
You're right, there's no need. But there was a reason why I put it there,
point (2) on how people who know nothing about MongoDB shouldn't be posting to
the lists.

~~~
hullo
I've been trying to parse this and just kind of failing. Is the implication
that _of course_ a naughty secretary wouldn't know anything about MongoDB?

~~~
dblock
I am used to people not connecting with Russian humor. She's actually well
known porn star.

UPDATE: I removed the pornographic infographic, I don't want to have a debate
about it.

~~~
mootothemax
_I am used to people no connecting with Russian humor. She's actually well
known porn star._

A bit of advice going forwards: this isn't a national-or-otherwise sense of
humour issue. I have no doubt there are many people from many different
countries that have a knowledge of famous porn stars. There'll also be lots
who don't... and that's without getting in to the whole objectifying women
debate ;-)

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camworld
I don't hate recruiters. There are a few really great ones and a whole lot of
really bad ones. I don't fault them for trying to make a living, but I do
recognize that the entire practice of placement fees is what drives these bad
behaviors.

The recruiting/placement industry would vanish overnight if companies would
stop paying placement fees to any recruiter who manages to locate and then
recruit good talent.

~~~
Peroni
_The recruiting/placement industry would vanish overnight if companies would
stop paying placement fees to any recruiter who manages to locate and then
recruit good talent._

Correct. The problem is that this isn't likely to happen as so many companies
need extra resource to help them recruit and will suffer the costs willingly.

------
ig1
The three approaches I've seen mailing lists use to solve the job posting
problem:

1) Have a specified criteria which jobs have to meet in order to be posted
(i.e. by a regular mailing list member, direct from company, etc.)

2) Have a separate but affiliated mailing list for jobs

3) Charge for job postings (with the money typically going to the bar tab for
the next mailing list meetup)

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retube
Urgh the whole recruiter-hate thing is so boring. Get off your high horse and
realise that some people are just trying to make a living - posting a relevant
ad to a mailing list occasionally is hardly the crime of the century.

Re his 3 points:

\- A recruiter is never going to reveal the employer name as this risks them
getting cut out of the loop

\- So what if a recruiter is trying to make money? Believe it or not line
managers are trying to make money too. They wouldn't employ you if they
weren't getting a postive ROI.

\- This _was_ a MongoDB ad, not Erlang or whatever.

Provided a post like this is occasional and relevant, I really don't see the
issue. It could really help someone land a great job too.

~~~
Peroni
_Get off your high horse and realise that some people are just trying to make
a living_

The HN High Horse is pretty justified to be fair. Most recruiters haven't the
first clue about the technology they recruit for and the amount of underhanded
and often illegal tactics recruiters engage in warrants most of the hate they
receive.

Yes there are decent recruiters but they are a very rare breed and the decent
ones generally know they are decent and consider themselves to be miles apart
from the general stereotype and don't get offended by the hate.

Shameless Plug: Have a look at my blog linked in my profile for more info on
why recruiters are universally hated.

~~~
retube
I was making no reference, good or bad, to recruiters in general. I was
referring to this particular example in isolation. To me that mailing list
post seemed inoffensive and relevant. Assuming it's occasional, what's the
problem?

What the author is doing is worse. He's using this minor indiscretion (if it's
even that) to jump on the recruiter-bashing band wagon and churn out a blog
post and get himself a bit of traffic.

~~~
dblock
You're reading too much between the lines.

Quote from the post:

"Please note that I don’t think recruiters are evil. They provide valuable
services to both companies and candidates. But good recruiting takes hard
work, time and social skills building relationships over a long period of time
– something that justifies a 25% ticket from your year’s salary upon hire. In
contrast, what’s the definition of sending an e-mail to 800 people because you
have their e-mail address and think they are in your target demographic?
Spam."

~~~
notahacker
In fairness this is an unusually well targeted email - assuming there's a real
job they've effectively alerted 800 people in a relatively small niche to its
existence in a relatively inoffensive way (you'd rather they did it the hard
work way by bothering you at meetups and calling you to see if you're ready to
ditch your startup yet? Really?). The ratio of people that might actually be
interested in the job to people who wasted approximately 2 seconds parsing the
email is quite high.

Now I start laughing when recruiters match me with CS graduate jobs which
match up with me on their database because they're in the same part of the
country as the university I went to, four years ago, in a completely different
subject area...

