
Why I Procrastinate (2019) - InvisibleUp
https://invisibleup.com/articles/27/
======
kleborp
The post linked within this post was really illuminating for me:
[https://gekk.info/articles/adhd.html](https://gekk.info/articles/adhd.html)

The section on why notecards and todo lists have never worked for him (and for
me) was particularly salient:

 _" The problem with "systems" is that they are authorities. They have to be.
If you decide "I'll prioritize things with a stack of notecards" then you are
telling yourself the following:

"The notecards replace my own brain. Everything that I do must be on a
notecard. If it isn't on a notecard, it can't be done. If I want it done, it
has to be on a notecard."

The problem is that when you have a crisis (a day full of emergencies) that
forces you to break from this system you will lose all respect for its
authority. Your brain will learn that it doesn't have to respect the
notecards, that they aren't in charge, and this sense of freedom is addictive
and will persist. Most ADHD sufferers have left a trail of systems -
notecards, whiteboards, lists, post-its, apps, alarms - that worked great for
[a month, a week, three days] but are now dead to them, scorched earth we
can't return to."_

~~~
jlangemeier
For me, todo lists and prioritization systems are like mental health yo-yo
dieting; I've tried them all, 4 times over and nothing ever sticks.

This section spoke to me in the same way, as each time I a new system up (or
an old one back up) it works until I have to deal with an emergency day, where
even the act of updating the list goes out the window. And then, the next day
it's "hey, I made it through yesterday, I don't need that system today." and
then it's done... until my emergency is "holy hell, I have no clue what's on
my plate for the day/week/month, I need to fix that." where I'll pick up my go
to old system (kanban style Trello board) and repeat the cycle anew.

~~~
phillennium
Same here. I think what could possibly help us is a to-do list that's
explicitly designed for that (e.g., has something like an "emergency mode").

If someone reading this feels the same and would like to hack together
something like that, let me know and we could try it together.

~~~
TooSmugToFail
Try Roam Research [1], it is awesome.

I've been coming up and using various GTD systems for a better part of the
last two decades. I'd be slipping in and out of different setups, tools,
solutions, systems... Some would stick for years, the others I'd abandon
pretty quickly.

All of them worked for me to a degree, and were very helpful in keeping me
organised and efficient, but never did I find a perfect setup that I'd be
perfectly comfortable and happy with.

I guess the most useful thing I learned from all these years and years of
trying to get a system in place and trying to get organised is to be perfectly
comfortable with changing the systems as I go along. Keep experimenting. Keep
what works for you, discard what doesn't.

For a long time I've been using a combination of a Trello based implementation
of a GTD-gone-wild kind of a todo list (with the centerpiece being week-by-
week daily todos) and an Evernote based journal that I kept surprisingly
consistently almost every day for years.

A few months ago, I got in one of those overwhelmingly busy crises, which made
me drop the journal. Rather than daily, I'd do it occasionally. To an extent
it was a relief, and I rationalised the hiatus by thinking in terms of the
benefit from the valuable extra time that I could spend on other work, but I
quickly realised that I lost an important information repository I could
comfortably and consistently rely on.

And then I stumbled upon Roam Research (RR). The experience was so great that
I started keeping a daily journal again. Went from 'nah, I'm not writing shit'
mode to an almost obsessive 'gotta record everything' in an instant. And I'm
actually enjoying it.

I've ditched Evernote (I still have all my old data there), and I did not
think twice, cause I got used to evolving my system without looking back if I
find something that i feel works better.

At the moment I'm still using Trello for tasks, but the todos are so easy and
natural to do in RR that I'm increasingly using it for my tasks, and finding
that I am having to open Trello less and less.

RR is so powerful and flexible and natural and easy, that I am genuinely
excited about a prospect of evolving my next system on it. I have a sense this
one will stick for a while.

There's a very helpful article on Medium, written by a guy that's quite
serious about getting the most out of RR. I'll try to find it and link it
below.

[1] [https://roamresearch.com/](https://roamresearch.com/)

~~~
rofrol
I have found these links discussing Roam:

\- [https://nesslabs.com/roam-research](https://nesslabs.com/roam-research)

\-
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22104366](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22104366)

\-
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22085837](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22085837)

Personalny I just use git repo with markdown files and Bash script miss.sh to
quickly send/get new content to central repo

------
spawarotti
TL;DR: "Most people don't have problems with procrastination" <CITATION
NEEDED>

I’ve read the article. I would caution against labeling yourself as having
ADHD, IMO it is very dangerous. Every high-achieving person I know has _major_
problem with procrastination. I was nodding while reading the article until
the ADHD part. Does it mean we all have ADHD? Consider an alternative: our
brains have to operate nonstop at near max capacity just to handle
complexities of modern society with computers and Internet. They rebel and as
a result we slap them with “defective, ADHD” labels. By analogy, if you would
feed somebody ungodly amounts of cake day in, day out, it is no wonder if they
develop diabetes. The problem is not that you are inherently defective; the
problem is you (or rather – modern society) brought you to the brink and now
you wonder why you are breaking down. Perhaps try to unplug for some months in
the woods and see if the symptoms persist? If they do, I stand corrected.

~~~
InvisibleUp
Hi, author here.

Since I wrote this article, I got professionally diagnosed and treated. Turns
out, yeah, I'm doing a lot better now. On most days I _don 't_ have these
symptoms, I can in fact study for classes and work, while _also_ doing the
things I love. I'm getting back into doodling, I've schedules all the
appointments I need to, I have a great friend group, etc. etc. It's not
perfect, I relapse sometimes, but I'm doing a _lot_ better.

I'm not claiming _everyone_ that procrastinates has ADHD. I'm claiming that
it's a _potential cause_ of _chronic_ procrastination.

Also, I _really_ can't afford to live in the woods for a few months. I still
need to pay for rent and food and healthcare and such. I'm glad that's an
option for you but I can't do that.

~~~
Thorentis
As I said in my main comment
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22127841#22133387](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22127841#22133387)):

Give up social media (all of it: Twitter, Reddit, Facebook, HN), porn, and TV
(including Netflix) for a couple of months. Take up some form of exercise
(lifting, running, even pilates or something), and re-evaluate your attention
span.

I'm not being flippant. If your therapist hasn't recommended this as at least
a starting point to better diagnose you, then you need a better therapist.

Whenever a friend tells me they're depressed, or anxious, or have attention
difficulties or whatever, the first thing I ask is "what did you spend most of
your time doing last week?". If the answer is "Oh, I found this cool new show
and binged it", or "Oh not much, I wasn't motivated to do anything so mostly
just scrolling the feed _haha_ " \- I immediately sit them down and suggest
that maybe those things are the cause and not the symptoms. You aren't
depressed, therefore you watch TV and observe other people's lives on
Instagram. You are depressed _because_ you do those things with the majority
of your waking hours.

Sure, many people suffer from depression, anxiety, etc. for plenty of other
reasons they cannot control. But the rates of this in Western countries are
skyrocketing. There has to be a better reason for that than "it's just who I
am".

~~~
InvisibleUp
I'll bite.

\- I don't watch TV, and I don't have a Netflix account

\- I'm asexual. I don't consume porn.

\- I tried taking a social media break in the past. It didn't fix anything. I
would just either nap or stare at the wall while my thoughts raced in circles.

\- I bike and walk long distances on a regular basis.

I understand you're trying to help but _I 'm not you_. My brain works
differently than yours. Maybe the rates in Western countries are skyrocketing
because _more people are learning this is a thing they have_.

Apologies if _I 'm_ being flippant, but it's very important to understand that
_not everyone is the same_. Some people need therapy or medication or surgery
or etc. to be at their best. That's not a bad thing. There's nothing wrong
with treatments that are _known_ and _proven_ to resolve a set of symptoms
that you have.

~~~
sadok
So much this. Honestly, there is a condescending tone in the parent comment,
it's the usual "Do you feel depressed? How about we go to the movies? You'll
feel better!" type of advice. My brain can't produce the appropriate
neurochemicals that yours (parent comment) can, so in the past I've had the
need to use antidepressants to supplement my brain.

Lots of people don't understand this.

------
ellius
A lot of people here are defending ADHD/procrastination, and while I agree
with a lot of the points (especially the one about industrialization being
maladaptive), it's worth considering the personal cost of not mitigating these
behaviors. "Rework" ends with a good quote about inspiration being a
diminishing resource. You might feel really passionate about some big project,
but if you don't have the skills to organize, plan, and implement the subtasks
required to get it done, your enthusiasm will eventually wane and you'll never
bring it to life. This happened to me perpetually throughout my twenties and
I've lost track of how many good ideas I had that died on the vine because I
lacked the skill to bring them to life. Figuring out how to create a system
that works for you and allows you to capture and make progress on your ideas
is hugely valuable. I understand the concern about becoming a slave to a
system, but letting your potential wither away is an equally unpleasant fate.

~~~
taurath
Its not a workflow problem, organization problem or motivation problem. Often
one can be organized, motivated, and have the skills, but be unable to apply
energy towards the problem.

------
erobbins
It's like a brain dump from my head. I can 100% identify with everything this
guy says. I've been fighting this since I can remember, certainly over 20
years. I thought I was the only one who never looked at
grades/feedback/whatever.

I'd probably be a CTO or a successful startup founder by now if I'd had a
solution early in life. As it is I've done OK but it's always a struggle
because work by its very nature is doing something you don't want to do
because they're paying you... and doing something I don't want to do is very
VERY hard. Almost impossible at times.

If you're a teenager or in your 20s, try and get some help now so you don't
toil in futility for the next 20 years. Trust me.

~~~
tikhonj
> ...work by its very nature is doing something you don't want to do because
> they're paying you...

I emphasize with this, and work certainly has this aspect, but I think there's
a better way to think about it: the nature of work is doing _something
valuable to somebody else_ for money. You don't get money for doing something
you dislike and, crucially, people will still pay you to do useful things even
if you enjoy them!

The practical upside is that it _is_ possible to find work you enjoy. There is
nothing wrong with prioritizing this as much as you are able, and you
shouldn't feel guilty once you _do_ find work you enjoy. It's easy to
internalize a Puritan "work as penance" point of view living in the US, but I
think it's not a useful (or accurate) way to think about it.

Of course, none of this changes your conclusion—if you feel this way, you
_should_ get some help. And, hell, even if you don't feel these things,
chatting with a therapist will probably have a healthy effect on your life.

~~~
erobbins
You're right, it's just that the things I enjoy doing (and do well) aren't
valuable to anyone else... golf doesn't pay if you're in the top 1%, you have
to be in the top .001% :)

With the skills I have that do pay well, I'm not sure what role I'd enjoy. I
always thought being a physical penetration tester would be amazing fun, but
those roles usually go to ex military types, not random joes like me with no
formal background. I like designing systems, but architects aren't really a
"thing" anymore. Writing code all day long is drudgery now.

I certainly should get some help, I'm 99% certain I have unofficially
diagnosed ADHD. It just seems like a lot of work figuring out what to do, and
then I get distracted by something else I'm doing... heh.

------
rdiddly
Standard counterpoint objection here that I'm not sure I "buy" ADHD. How much
of it is just "being human" (and in particular "being a young human") in a
world that's inhuman? Is it a coincidence that the condition was first
"observed" around the onset of industrialization a couple hundred years ago?
There are numerous evolutionary advantages to _being tuned-in to your
environment._ Certainly every tribe could've used at least a couple people
like that. But in an industrialized world, with industrialized education &
work processes, where you're called-upon to sit still for hours doing things
that don't matter (and that you hence, don't care about), where subtly you
tend to find more success the more you act like an automaton, it's apparently
maladaptive, a liability and an aberration. Because we've made it one. It's
industrialization itself that's maladaptive.

~~~
Afton
The is sort of the issue with most deviations from neurotypicality. It's a
disease only when it stops you from doing what you and society wants you to
do. That's why lots of people manage without treatment. But what are you
recommending? That people with ADHD should just move somewhere they can live
in a non-industrialized setting?

I suspect also that you may have an outdated view of ADHD. It's more about a
lack of executive function than 'hyperactivity'. In fact one of the ADHD types
is 'inattentive'. Did you read the whole article? The author discusses some of
this.

~~~
rdiddly
I'm not recommending anything. This isn't a charged environment like Twitter,
where it seems 100% of statements are either recommendations that will FIX THE
UNIVERSE, or attempts by opponents to misconstrue them as same, for purpose of
finding fault (since no recommendation will ever be 100% valid in all cases).

RE reading the article, that's where I'm getting it.

"My mind flutters from the window to reading the little scribbles people left
on the desk to my imagination and then back out again" = _I am observant of my
environment and probably the first one to be aware of new opportunities or
threats arising from that environment. And I dream._

"I'm really prone to letting my thoughts get off on the worst tangents..." =
_I pay attention to tangential (i.e. "touching," related) things and take
action on them, investigate them._ She looks them up on Wikipedia, learns all
about them, and suffers no loss of attentiveness when the topic is meaningful
to her and chosen by her. Given that new knowledge tends to come most readily
from tangents, and not from out of the blue, and not from some well-
intentioned-but-flawed, "legible" (i.e. bureaucratic/"makes logical
sense"/industrialized) lesson plan, this is not a bad approach to learning.
The problem only comes when you need to get through school, where those lesson
plans are _de rigueur_ and the pertinent skill is actually overruling/ignoring
what you are interested in and _not_ taking action on it. Huge waste BTW,
whether ADHD or not.

"Executive function" \- well I would simply open the question of whether the
"executive" (slight pun) who is in charge, inside us, is always the one who we
think it is. Our parents'/teachers' voices, or our own? _Something_ is always
being executed, even when we're not executing on our plan to do homework. The
"fitting in, getting by" part of you made a plan to do homework, but the (I
would argue) real part of you already realizes it's all silly bullshit &
doesn't matter. The former is the one we reward with good grades & good jobs,
but the latter is the one who's right.

~~~
Afton
Your first paragraph is strawmaning. At no point did I demand that you
recommend a 100% fix. You made a claim about how the industrial age was the
problem. I was trying to make a point that even if true, that doesn't really
buy you anything, since we live in the age we live in. If I failed to
communicate that well enough, I apologize.

As for the rest, it's hard to know what to make of it. It's like you're
building a superpower out of failure to be able to focus when it's necessary
to focus. Like if someone couldn't stand still, and you said something like "I
bet it's really useful, because you never get stiff, and you burn more
calories", but ignoring that it's fucking terrible, because you can't ever sit
still even when it would be advantageous to sit still.

Note that executive control is also about planning. Of course it can be useful
to rush of without planning, like when being chased by a panther. But it's not
a good idea to have a significant deficit in the ability to plan. "Silly
bullshit [that] doesn't matter" can mean not having the ability to pay for
food, and it can mean having terrible stress over accomplishing trivial tasks
(like filing out tax paperwork!).

Anyway. You're welcome to continue to not-buy ADHD, but recognize that people
who live with, and who study it, think it's a thing.

~~~
rdiddly
Well yeah of course I know what age we're living in, and that it's a thing,
otherwise I wouldn't be saying these things. We're saying the same thing
basically, but you asked what I recommend and I'm just saying I don't have an
answer, because that wasn't the point. In other words it's outside the scope
of my comment to make recommendations of any kind, or try to state what an
appropriate course of action might be.

It might've sounded like I was accusing you of something - I wasn't, sorry,
just pointing out that rushing to a conclusion is part of why Twitter sucks.
Nobody can just talk about an idea or let's say, one particular side of an
idea, without it being construed as carrying a flag for that idea to take over
the world and exterminate all other ideas. I'm only mentioning one thing, that
doesn't mean all other things are false. But I'm focusing on this one side of
it partly because nobody really needs me to enumerate the BAD aspects of
having ADHD, I mean that's the side everyone has already heard!

~~~
Afton
Thanks for replying.

------
glofish
I like these upvoted posts on procrastination. Feels like the HN community
(like myself) struggles with this. Nowadays I embrace procrastination as
necessary "evil". Unlike the cited post, I don't think one needs "help" with
that - it might just backfire even more.

I have come to believe that procrastination is a healthy and necessary
condition for outstanding productivity. It is like REM sleep or something :-)

I think that without some level of procrastination nothing amazing would ever
be done.

~~~
InvisibleUp
A certain level of procrastination is healthy. We're not meant to be machines,
constantly productive 24/7\. Downtime to enjoy your life, consume creative
works, and unwind is good.

I'm not talking about that here. I'm talking about _severe_ procrastination,
when it's very difficult to do the work you need to do. The goal is to strike
a healthy balance.

------
3minus1
> I'm really prone to letting my thoughts get off on the worst tangents, and
> it will take a while to get myself back on track

Sometimes I'll be listening to an audiobook and I'll start thinking about
something else. By rewinding the audiobook I can figure out how long the
distraction was (could be over a minute). It also amazes me how I have no
recollection of the portions of the audiobook that were playing while I was
distracted.

~~~
pmoriarty
I've mostly been able to solve this problem (unless I'm really frazzled and
have a lot of other things on my mind) by adjusting the audiobook's playback
speed.

Too slow and I'll be bored and my mind will wander a lot, and too fast and
I'll miss chunks even with the smallest mind wandering. The sweet spot is
somewhere in the middle.

For reading written material, I found a trick that worked for me in college,
when I had mountains of assigned books to read. Whenever I noticed my mind
wandering, I'd make an arbitrary mark (like a simple checkmark) on a piece of
paper and immediately go back to reading. This kept my focus and I was able to
barrel through a ton of reading.

------
rootusrootus
It's like this guy has been inside my head. Sometimes I feel exactly he same
way, do the same things (well, not Twitter), with the same thoughts and
results. There have been times when I refresh HN and say "you're not even
enjoying this, why do you keep looking?"

~~~
hashkb
It's not a guy.

~~~
InvisibleUp
She's not an it, either.

~~~
hashkb
That's true. It's less wrong; and my intent was to add a bit of fun. Sorry,
guy.

------
curo
Best advice I've ever gotten: don't overthink it (procrastination, ADHD,
productivity systems, etc). Trying to fight the mind with more concepts is
like trying to fight the wind with a kite.

------
ncfausti
As a 33 year old who was just diagnosed with ADHD, a few minutes into reading
this I knew exactly where it was going.

For me, it was when I watched Dr. Russell Barkley's talk[1] and halfway
through, it brought me to tears. No one before then had described exactly the
way I felt on a daily basis.

Since going through a full day of neuropsychological testing and being
diagnosed with ADHD-I and starting medication, I feel like the me I think I
am, naturally curious, optimistic, and actually following through with the
things that interest me. Planning and grad school assignments just click so
effortlessly now, and my stress is way down, as I am completing things in a
timely manner and not fighting myself at every step of the way.

If any of this resonates with you, please talk with a psychiatrist to see if
this is something you're unknowingly (and unnecessarily) struggling with.

Also,if you're like me and like listening to audio books at 2 or 3x speed,
check out Speechify, it allows you to listen to any kind of text including
rough scans of books/PDFs. It's been incredibly helpful for required readings
in classes.

edit: wrong video url

[1] [https://youtu.be/_tpB-B8BXk0](https://youtu.be/_tpB-B8BXk0)

------
zackmorris
I just discovered yesterday that I suffer from task anxiety related to
ADD/ADHD, after a lifetime of struggling against falling into patterns of
depression. It's felt as almost a pain in my gut between my chest and belly
whenever I go to start working on something I have to do. I just worked
through this series of exercises and it really helped me identify what's
actually going on, with some solutions:

[https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/01/29/taskmaster-
getting-t...](https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/01/29/taskmaster-getting-
things-done/)

[https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/02/11/task-anxiety-
awarene...](https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/02/11/task-anxiety-awareness/)

[https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/02/14/virtue-not-own-
rewar...](https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/02/14/virtue-not-own-reward/)

[https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/02/16/doling-out-the-
cooki...](https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/02/16/doling-out-the-cookies/)

[https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/02/24/when-the-game-is-
rig...](https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/02/24/when-the-game-is-rigged/)

Some other keywords to look for are "impossible task" and "executive
dysfunction", both maladies being seen predominantly in millennials. I just
happened to get them 10 or 20 years ahead of time by starting computers when I
was 12 as a Gen Xer.

------
mynegation
I have a theory that different things work for different people and not all
things work for all people. Any particular book or blog post should not be
taken as a gospel but rather a set of tools from which you can try and pick up
what works for you.

What worked for me: (1) getting more sleep - counterintuitive, as one gets
less time to be productive, but I find that sleep deprivation affects my mood,
attention, and executive function big time (2) writing it down and drawing up
my day hour by hour. Even if I do not follow the plan to the tee - it helps me
visualize the day and find large chunk of times that are best for getting into
the zone (3) batching up small but mundane tasks and sticking them into the
short available chunks of time that would not be good for deep work, then
focus on this list of tasks and racing to compete as many of them as possible,
using the short rush of pleasure of completing one task as a burst of energy
for the next one and create momentum.

~~~
outworlder
> then focus on this list of tasks and racing to compete as many of them as
> possible

See, this is the piece some people have a problem with. That requires you to
actually _start_ those tasks.

------
aexq36
Like with all things, laziness/conscientiousness exists on a spectrum, and
it's hard to tell where normal variation crosses over into pathology. I do
have to wonder if self-proclaimed laziness among nerdy types comes from a
tendency to set very high standards for ourselves and to compare ourselves
with extraordinarily productive people. I think the average human being might
be lazier than we give them credit for. The author complains about not being
able to stop browsing reddit and get out of bed? Well, it seems that's how a
great many people choose to spend their time these days if given a choice, so
can we really say that's a sign of pathology? You feel like you're not working
hard enough on your personal coding/science/art/whatever project? Well, most
people don't have _any_ personal projects, they produce very little beyond
what is required to make a living, and for the extra amount that they do
produce they don't hold themselves to very high standards and they don't care
if they ultimately abandon the project, so you're already way ahead of the
curve there.

I say all this as someone who has had severe problems with laziness and I
empathize with the author of the article a lot, so I'm not trying to make
light of the problem. I'm just suggesting an alternative perspective that may
be useful.

------
yardshop
I'm procrastinating so hard today that I don't even feel like reading
procrastination articles on HN!

Yesterday was decent, I started off a bit sluggish but okay, but by mid
afternoon I really got going and got a bunch of good things done. I was
actually on a productivity high!

Today I came in with that same good energy, and then an alert came in: "user
suchNsuch has been blocked due to high volume of suspicious emails sent!"
Damn! Total derail. I've been able to do the basics to mitigate that
situation, but lost all of my enthusiasm for other projects.

Maybe getting out of the office for a second lunch will help! If I feel like
reading these articles after, I will know some progress has been made.

~~~
yardshop
Well, after posting that, I felt better. Then I ate my salad while looking at
those articles. Then I was able to take on some helpdesk tickets, and am
gearing up to do the projects I'm actually interested in and most reluctant to
start.

I definitely agree with the other procrastination post today that its mostly
to do with emotional state. Part of the issue at work is that I hesitate to
get into big projects when I know I will just be interrupted by trivial shit
again. Beyond that it's just mustering up the discipline to make myself start.
It's not really that hard, but it still feels like it is.

------
kitd
All these procrastination articles are obviously finding their target audience
here on HN!

~~~
J-dawg
I sometimes feel like these articles are popular because procrastination is
just a universal part of the human condition. I doubt anyone scrolls past
these articles and thinks “that doesn’t affect me at all”.

I procrastinate to the point where it’s causing me real problems in life, yet
it feels kinda indulgent to say that as if I’m the victim of some disease,
when I’m actually just failing to deal with something that’s hard for
everyone.

Perhaps this feeling is actually contributing to the problem, because I’m
continually frustrated that I can’t just snap out of it like (most) other
people.

~~~
VBprogrammer
I think that might be the British in us. I feel like Americans are much more
open to diagnosis of mental conditions like anxiety and depression. Perhaps
because they are constantly bombarded with advertising for medications for
them and other conditions.

~~~
J-dawg
You might well be right. But a diagnosis of what?

I’ve often wondered whether I have ADHD, but I don’t have the other symptoms
of forgetfulness, disorganisation and hyperactivity.

Procrastination is a huge problem for me and I’d love to have a label for it,
but I don’t think procrastination alone qualifies as a mental disorder.

~~~
VBprogrammer
I guess I'm the same in a lot of ways. I can end up in a spiral of self
destructive procrastination. I do identify with some of the other symptoms and
experiences but not all of them.

In truth I think that a binary classification is too much of a blunt
instrument. The reality is probably more of a spectrum.

------
joshklein
I recommend “Procrastination” by Burka & Yuen.

For the kind of person who frequents this site and endures suffering due to
procrastination, even seeing their clinical definition of maladaptive
perfectionism (and learning why procrastinating provides relief from it) could
reduce your level of anxiety and self-flagellation, if not help you change
your behavior.

The first section of their book provides a framework for understanding what is
happening when you procrastinate, then orients your investigation into the
underlying causes specific to you (or those not applicable to you). The book's
second section offers self-directed cognitive behavioral therapies.

"Procrastination" is based on decades of the authors’ clinical experience. The
25th anniversary edition pulls in updated academic research from as far afield
as behavioral economics (future discounting) that didn't exist when the book
was first published.

[This comment is a reposted version of one of my own previous comments]

~~~
pmoriarty
Along similar lines, there's a fantastic video by procrastination researcher
Tim Pychyl here: [1]

I've watched a ton of videos on procrastination, and read a lot about it, and
this video is head and shoulders above everything else. Highly recommended.

He also has the iProcrastinate Podcast[2], which also has some useful and
interesting episodes.

[1] -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhFQA998WiA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhFQA998WiA)

[2] - [http://iprocrastinate.libsyn.com/](http://iprocrastinate.libsyn.com/)

------
shortoncash
Calendars and to-do lists matter, but the unpleasant aspect of these things is
that I become a human scheduler, similar to an operating system scheduler. The
scheduling function consumes so much time on its own, and it's psychologically
uncomfortable.

Dare I say it: I don't like context switches and would prefer first come first
serve, until completion. The real world, however, is unforgiving on which
scheduler I can choose.

------
carlisle_
To try and provide feedback without being critical, the way you bold text from
"So What's Up?" and through "Tips and Tricks" is very distracting. Since you
use bold text for titles and the list items in that "So What's Up?" section,
bold text is structural and serves a purpose to separate ideas. You overload
it a bit by bolding long phrases you wish to draw the reader's attention to.

You use bold text well before and after these sections, when you're only
bolding a few words at most at a time. Once you start bolding whole phrases
your paragraphs start looking like striped lines. It was very distracting to
try to follow your sentences when my attention is getting drawn to all the
bolded text around me. It almost felt wrong at times to read the plain
formatted text.

Your content was very engaging and I relate to it quite a bit. The
illustrations are fantastic thanks for posting.

~~~
mlnhd
I think the bolded parts were really good for emphasis.

I’ve found myself thinking those exact thoughts ever since I suspected I
suffered from ADHD, and I plan to quote them at my doctors when I seek my own
ADHD diagnosis.

------
keyanp
_" I find it extraordinarily difficult to just... relax. Sit on a bench and
watch the clouds. [...] But even if I'm in that perfect scenario where there's
nothing to do... my brain will just fill the void with absurd daydreams and
rabbithole trains of thought._"

This is the case for many (all?) people. I've found that you need to
intentionally train your ability to not let your mind do this. I recommend
this book for some exercises to help: [https://www.amazon.com/Happiness-
Mindfulness-Thich-Nhat-Hanh...](https://www.amazon.com/Happiness-Mindfulness-
Thich-Nhat-Hanh/dp/1888375914)

~~~
fxtentacle
I have the exact same thing, but I always thought of it as a brilliant
feature, not as a problem.

As soon as I sit around and get bored, my brain will make up absurd daydreams
and stories. Usually they are pretty funny, so afterwards I feel relaxed and
happy. Isn't that the whole point of taking a break?

~~~
jlangemeier
Imagine that brilliant feature isn't just "a break" but the norm... it's not
just "when I get bored," it's:

    
    
      - In the middle of flow
      - Trying to fall asleep
      - Trying to go back to sleep
      - In the middle of important conversations
      - During meetings - even one's you're leading
      - When you're getting dressed
      - When you're making breakfast (where the hell did I put the 3rd spoon I've pulled from the drawer)
      - When you're in intimate moments with a partner (or by yourself - no judgement here)
      - When you're making lunch (just burned my second grilled cheese because I can't stay on task for 5 minutes)
      - During exercise
      - During free-time and hobbies
      - Between small tasks
      - In the middle of small tasks
      - etc
      - etc
      - etc
    

The article itself is about the issues surrounding the person's ADHD, not just
"procrastination," which for many people is a good thing, because it's a brain
break; but for many of us with ADHD it's the norm and a cycle we have to fight
instead of embrace.

~~~
fxtentacle
That would be super annoying, I concur.

I would say the article nicely highlights the problems with ADHD diagnosis,
because when I read it, I thought for pretty much every point "oh I also do
that sometimes"

~~~
jlangemeier
Yeah, they did a good job covering the social issue around it; as most people
do most of what we do sometimes; and the key word is always 'sometimes,' ADHD
is a daily occurrence of high tide and low tide marks for attention and active
effort; some days are easier than others but that isn't always setting the bar
very high.

Like for me, depending on where I'm at in existence from day to day my
therapist has said the 'H' portion of ADHD is minor for me, other times it's
been a major contributor to issues; but I have to have a level of
introspection to even catch when certain parts of my diagnosis are sitting at
high tide or low tide...

Sometimes I can remember every detail of every interaction and task for weeks
at a time, nearing eidedic memory; but most days I'll misplace a knife I was
just using for butter.. and yesterday I forgot all the time I spent doing
chores because I essentially was on auto-pilot, my wife thanked me, I said
"for what?" high tide and low tide...

I'll hyperfocus on creating a task-list for a project I'm super excited about,
and __usually__ forget the Trello board exists or misplace the papers or let
the notes go through the wash or... high tide and low tide...

Some days I'll be able to fall asleep as soon as I lay down. Most days though
I can't get my brain to shut up, taking notes to free up the brain space makes
more room for something else to jump in, meditation/breathing exercises are
momentary fixes that don't last long enough to allow sleep to come, a glass of
water or bathroom break turns into an hour on reddit, etc and then suddenly
it's 5am... high tide and low tide...

------
FullKirby
Thanks. I do recognize myself very much in what you described. I've been
convinced that I have ADHD for quite a while already, but I always was against
the idea of taking medication... I was still doing fine when I was younger,
but I'm now somehow unable to focus to do homeworks, at all... I
procrastinate, fall so much behind, get super stressed about it, and instead
of being motivated like I used to (hello panic monster) I just "crash", panic,
give up everything and fail classes. Not great for self-esteem and general
happiness.

I guess I'll reconsider seeking professional help and medication

------
cryptozeus
Procrastination articles start to appear on HN as we get close to end of
January. There is a lesson in there somewhere.

~~~
tdsamardzhiev
Man, I feel like it's the 75th of January already. Does this month ever end?

~~~
marcosdumay
January is usually longer than the remaining of the year. Enjoy while it
lasts.

------
walkingpigeon
I've seen this article coming up several times, I really want to finish
reading it, yet I procrastinate.

------
techsin101
What helped me:

\- travelling and staying in a hotel for a month. Just job and hotel. All
bookmarks, Todo lists, and everything else like that gone. Helped me forget it
all and have a clear mind.

\- brushing teeth twice. I saw study that linked gum disease to depression.
Aka unhealthy mind. I feel keeping mouth clean keeps inflammation down. I feel
really positive once I had dental cleaning and decided I want to continue
feeling that.

\- sleep apnea treatment with CPAP machine. It works I get tired 5 hours late
now. before I'd be tired by 2pm, now I'm tired by 11 pm. I hate the mask I'm
gonna get p10 that goes into nostrils I've nasal mask which sits under the
noise and I feel it's affecting my teeth by putting gradual pressure.

\- accomplishing anything. I did an online course. Something different than my
usual grind. And in world of evolving frameworks where you can never be good.
It was refereshing to take the test and pass it many tests. Grow confidence.

\- don't mess your internal rythm. Just how blue light can alter your cycle so
can eating very much. Infact there was a study by Harvard that to counter just
lag and start waking up at certain time, fast almost a day then wake up at the
time you wanna wake up daily and have big breakfast. It will instantly changes
internal clock. So eating past 5-6pm is very bad. With Exception of milk.

------
cryptica
Procrastination has a good return on investment. You invest nothing and you
get nothing.

Unlike every other investment where you give up your time, your health, your
optimism and you get nothing.

------
DocG
I haven't resonated with any article so much before as with this. I literally
quit my job, because of these reasons.

I'll sign myself up for a therapist now. Thanks.

------
speedplane
I don't have a problem with procrastination, and I don't feel guilty about it.
I think it's optimal.

Generally, try to find out the last day something is due, figure out if that's
a hard or soft deadline (if soft, get an extension), estimate how long it'll
take to do the work, and then start the work exactly within that time limit.
Doing it any sooner means that you're likely putting off even earlier
deadlines.

Procrastinating is not a problem, submitting work late or low quality is.

------
hindsightbias
There really needs to be some test scale of procrastination since nearly
everyone does it. Something like being 5 degrees from Da Vinci (the Mona Lisa
took 16 years).

My feeling is that anyone w/o an A average going into college should have a
first term class in time/study strategies, and register for no more than 4
classes (outside Loafers 101). Many people much brighter than I crashed and
burned early in college and our vaunted centers of learning had nothing for
them.

------
tempsy
Doesn’t this contradict the other article that was upvoted on how
procrastination is more emotional than anything else?

To say it is ADHD is to suggest it is neurological e.g. some chemical
imbalance in the brain, but if it’s really an emotional response then saying
you have ADHD is more like pointing out the symptom rather than the cause
here.

~~~
jlangemeier
This isn't saying that __ALL__ procrastination is ADHD, and the other article
didn't say that __ALL__ procrastination is emotional. This article is saying
that this specific person's procrastination is linked to their ADHD - and even
covers some of the emotional response portion (the section on feedback
dysphoria).

Most psychologists and psychiatrists worth their salt will tell you that ADHD
and Anxiety are kissing-cousins; and will usually look for the other if
someone has one of them. Guess what is a great emotional inhibitor to doing
things... Anxiety.

More generally, a strong emotional response of any kind could be considered as
a chemical imbalance by how you're categorizing ADHD. ADHD isn't as hard and
fast assigned a "chemical imbalance" like Depression, and more closely related
to Asperger/Autism as an executive function/communication disorder (via DSM
4r9 and all of DSM 5). The reason that some of us are given something like
Welbutrin or Proponolol instead of a straight stimulant like Ritalin or
Aderall is because ADHD can in many cases be clustered with Depression,
Anxiety, or other mood disorders (which are in the "chemical imbalance" group,
and knocking out one can help the other).

So, short story long, there's no contradiction; but like with most things,
there can be multiple root causes for a single, broadly defined outcome like
procrastination.

------
rhacker
Something tells me these articles on procrastination are generally permanently
relevant to the people that view HN during business hours (me included). I am
curious if the number of hits per day has dropped as a result of posting them
a lot this week!

------
taurath
By the point that the author had come upon what was "going on" I was literally
afraid for myself since they had described EXACTLY what I've been doing and
going through for so much of my life.

------
makach
I should really be working, but I am reading this article. Please send help.

------
shreyshrey
I struggle with this as well. Now i prioritize all my tasks in my brain. Over
the years tried quite a few systems: tiddly wiki, gtd, zero inbox and onenote.
Nothing worked for me.

------
Thorentis
tl;dr (but do read rest of comment!): give up social media, porn, and TV
(including Netflix) for a couple of months. Take up some form of exercise
(lifting, running, even pilates or something), and re-evaluate your attention
span.

\---

Not to be offensive to those diagnosed with ADHD or something related, but
there is absolutely too much ADHD going around at the moment for it to be a
coincidence.

My wife is a teacher, and the number of kids "diagnosed" with ADHD is insane.
What do they do with their time instead of homework or listening in class?
Playing video games for hours on end, browsing social media, sending Snaps,
creating Tik Tok videos, watching porn, watching Netflix, and so on ...

See a pattern here? Sure, it is probably an old trope at this point, but the
entertainment modern society has given us has drastically lowered our
attention spans. Those of us in our mid to late 20s are on the border. We
didn't grow up with social media, but we're young enough to have started using
it fairly early (but not early enough - usually - for it to effect us /too/
badly, though those using it too much have suffered from it). Those a bit
younger (high school age, freshman age) are absolutely suffering from it, and
God knows how badly the primary and middle schoolers will suffer.

In this article, the OP talks about what they do instead of study most of the
time: lay in bed and browse Twitter and Reddit. Sorry but - and not to sound
trite - but that there is a huge problem. It is not a symptom, it is a problem
(not _the_ problem, but it contributes) in and of itself. Cut it out.

Unfortunately, I find myself sucked back into social media after giving it up
for any length of time, whether by friends, family, a new venture that needs a
Facebook page, whatever. But when I do give it up (and I mean all of it:
Reddit, Twitter, Facebook, HN, the lot) I am the most productive I have ever
been. I get things done. It's not a magic cure, and it must be combined with
other stuff (exercise, reading, meditation), but honestly, our lazy modern
lives are the cause of most "ADHD" and nothing else.

------
keyle
1999 - the GTD method

2019 - everyone thinks they have ADHD on some level

Constant: you're human and you are a fine human. Hormones and interests
fluctuate throughout the weeks, months, years. Pursue what feels right. The
human brain wasn't designed to pursue long term goals, it takes an
extraordinary interest in something for it to be a life goal. Nothing is ever
finished, it's just tabled for now. One day you'll be old and leave all that
crap behind for the next generation. It's nature.

------
fnord77
I have the exact symptoms and behavior as this person.

I found that 10mg of desipramine once a night obliterated most of the
procrastination.

------
anon_d
ADHD is your mind violently rebelling against the useless bullshit that you
trying to force it to do.

------
rb808
I could be ADHD, I hear a lot of stories about people diagnosed as adults.
Surely everyone has trouble getting motivated for boring tasks. Surely
everyone would benefit from stimulants though? I'm not sure how to tell the
difference.

~~~
InvisibleUp
I (and other people with ADHD) have trouble getting motivated not just for
boring tasks, but _any_ task. Even things we want to do. I doubt you've ever
procrastinated playing your favorite video game, but I do. A lot.

Stimulants also effect people with ADHD differently than those without. I
won't pretend nto be an expert on the subject, but stimulants tend to make
people with ADHD calmer, able to control their thoughts better, and sometimes
even sleepier. People without ADHD tend to feel agitated and jittery and
hyper.

------
asimjalis
So how did you fix it? What was the solution?

~~~
InvisibleUp
Went to my therapist. Explained my symptoms. Took a few tests, got a
diagnosis, fiddled with medications and dosages for a while, did some more
therapy, and I seem to be in a good spot now.

Obviously, YMMV regarding the effectiveness of your treatment. I'm still
sometimes up and down but the baseline is higher. Even if you decide not to
take medication (it's not right for everyone and I won't pretend otherwise),
do seek therapy. It's so incredibly helpful.

------
nehagup
Level of procastinating - post 2019 posted in 2020

------
elfexec
"A brand new day and

A brand new HN post on

Procrastination"

I'm starting to see a pattern here.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22125883](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22125883)

------
0xff00ffee
EDIT: My apologies. I was overcome with a bout of head-in-ass-syndrome.

~~~
RickS
First, the other commenters are correct. Your tone is needlessly hostile.
Would you talk to a cashier like this? Or a peer at work? I hope not.

Anyway, related to your actual post – you said:

> Buckle up and get it done, it's that simple.

Would you tell a depressed person

> Cheer up and go outside, it's that simple.

If so, what evidence do you have that this is an effective treatment?

If not, what makes the two situations (w/r/r "culpability" for ones cognitive
abilities) different?

~~~
0xff00ffee
>> Buckle up and get it done, it's that simple.

> Would you tell a depressed person

Yes I would absolutely tell that to a depressed person. And I have said it. I
was depressed for a decade. And yet people spoke to me this way, because
that's life. I was on antidepressants. I took care of my problem(s) and I
still got my job done while struggling, medicating, and going to therapy. A
big part of therapy was learning to separate "them" from "me" in my internal
dialog.

You know what? I'm glad someone spoke to me that way. It got me up and
motivated to work on myself. I can't imagine how poorly I would have turned
out if I was coddled and allowed to stay in bed and read about all of these
new pop-psych diseases I could blame. But that's just me. Maybe I can reach
someone the way I was reached.

However, you are conflating two completely unrelated things. I am not
responsible for your internal mental state, nor is anyone responsible for
mine. This is a crucial skill that I believe is sorely lacking.

~~~
blurri
> You know what? I'm glad someone spoke to me that way. It got me up and
> motivated to work on myself. I can't imagine how poorly I would have turned
> out if I was coddled and allowed to stay in bed and read about all of these
> new pop-psych diseases I could blame. But that's just me. Maybe I can reach
> someone the way I was reached.

I think that is the problem. Maybe it is just you. The language you use,
coddling, and how you speak of mental diseases as if it's some made up thing
suggest maybe you weren't going through what others are going through.

> Maybe I can reach someone the way I was reached.

I doubt it. I read your first comment and then the edit, and thought maybe
you'd come to your senses, but no. You do lack empathy and understanding. You
sound very like your not trying to reach some one, instead, you're trying to
tell them how it is from your point of view. No empathy. People actually
suffering don't need that from you.

~~~
0xff00ffee
I'm sure some people who have beaten depression might say, "I'm glad I
received empathy, kind words, and gentle encouragement; it helped me get over
it." Others will say, "I needed a kick in the ass to get my life on track."
I'm in the latter camp. Sounds like you're in the former. You can have empathy
in both cases. Don't accidentally confuse "empathy" with "enabling."

------
idclip
Remember, idle hands are the devil’s playground.

------
alexashka
Procrastination is not a problem. Having to go to school and listen to dimwits
recite largely useless information for 12 years and demand that you memorize
it is demoralizing.

It should be demoralizing, because it's bullshit and it's not what you want to
be doing.

The key takeaway is that if you don't become excellent at something that
society appreciates (will pay good money for), the remainder of your life will
be spent with dimwits at work.

The solution to being in a shitty situation is seeing a clear path out, not
pills and blog articles.

