
How Much Land Does a Man Need? (1886) - utopian3
https://www.online-literature.com/tolstoy/2738/
======
idoubtit
This story was faithfully transposed to *bande dessinée" (European comics) by
Martin Veyron in 2016. "Ce qu'il faut de terre à l'homme" won a prize at the
Angoulême Festival, and I recommend it very much if you can read French. My
only complaint with it is that the handful of Cyrillic texts in the drawings
are not made of Russian words but simple transliterations of French words.

Among the short novels wrote by Tolstoi, my personal preference is for "Father
Sergius". A young prince can't support any more the royal court, so he flees
outside of his world, then struggles in trying to find meaning and peace in
his life.

~~~
amiga_500
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Tolstoy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Tolstoy)

> Tolstoy also became a dedicated advocate of Georgism, the economic
> philosophy of Henry George

> towards the end of his life, Tolstoy become more and more occupied with the
> economic theory and social philosophy of Georgism.

> He spoke of great admiration of Henry George, stating once that "People do
> not argue with the teaching of George; they simply do not know it. And it is
> impossible to do otherwise with his teaching, for he who becomes acquainted
> with it cannot but agree."

Land value tax explained in 10 minutes:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD_dZvPwAj0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD_dZvPwAj0)

~~~
perl4ever
You know what _else_ is an interesting fringe idea that had some famous
adherents?

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_credit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_credit)

...I have never really looked into it, but I happened on a paragraph that
makes it sound like it might be an approach to dealing with the problems
people complain about a lot these days:

"Douglas proposed to eliminate the gap between purchasing power and prices by
increasing consumer purchasing power with credits which do not appear in
prices in the form of a price rebate and a dividend. Formally called a
"Compensated Price" and a "National (or Consumer) Dividend", a National Credit
Office would be charged with the task of calculating the size of the rebate
and dividend by determining a national balance sheet, and calculating
aggregate production and consumption statistics."

"Based on his conclusion that the real cost of production is less than the
financial cost of production, the Douglas price rebate (Compensated Price) is
determined by the ratio of consumption to production. Since consumption over a
period of time is typically less than production over the same period of time
in any industrial society, the real cost of goods should be less than the
financial cost.

For example, if the money cost of a good is $100, and the ratio of consumption
to production is 3/4, then the real cost of the good is $100(3/4) = $75. As a
result, if a consumer spent $100 for a good, the National Credit Authority
would rebate the consumer $25. The good costs the consumer $75, the retailer
receives $100, and the consumer receives the difference of $25 via new credits
created by the National Credit Authority.

The National Dividend is justified by the displacement of labour in the
productive process due to technological increases in productivity. As human
labour is increasingly replaced by machines in the productive process, Douglas
believed people should be free to consume while enjoying increasing amounts of
leisure, and that the Dividend would provide this freedom."

~~~
amiga_500
This would be soaked up by rent, which is set by available income less
essentials.

~~~
perl4ever
There are townhouses roughly five miles apart in the city where I live that
differ by a factor of two in price. If what you say means anything, they
should rent for the same amount...? It seems doubtful to me.

~~~
amiga_500
No. Location matters. 5 miles is a long way in any city. Identical apartments
5 miles apart will have different rents.

~~~
perl4ever
The major office complex in the middle of things is _almost_ ten minutes
commute from the expensive townhouses and _just over_ ten minutes commute from
the cheap ones. Even though it's right beside the expensive homes. So in this
particular case, 5 miles is _not_ a long way.

It seemed pretty obvious to me that the difference was that the expensive ones
were brand new and the cheap ones were 25 years old. But often people don't
think of houses depreciating like cars.

------
cutchin
This story has stuck with me for years. Any time I've over-promised what I
could deliver or stand to miss a deadline or am otherwise stressed out by
situations of my own creation it comes back to me.

This website often focuses on ambition and furiously chasing one's dreams, but
it's nice to have reminders that in the end, it's the small comforts and
relationships we've built that really matter.

~~~
perfect_kiss
What's fun enough, Tolstoy has another story, "What Men Live By", which was
usually published alongside "How Much Land",

and says just the same things about comforts, relationships, and generally
love, which really matter:

[https://www.gutenberg.org/files/6157/6157-h/6157-h.htm#link2...](https://www.gutenberg.org/files/6157/6157-h/6157-h.htm#link2H_4_0001)

~~~
abyssin
Thanks for sharing this story! I just finished reading it and it's a good
reminder that we live together and depend on each other's help and support.

------
ArtWomb
Absolute classic. Another Tolstoy short story I really love is the tale of
"The Two Pilgrims". You read them once. And they stay with you your entire
life ;)

[http://www.online-literature.com/tolstoy/2891/](http://www.online-
literature.com/tolstoy/2891/)

------
curuinor
Tolstoy was a Georgist, and this is basically a little Georgist short story.

[https://www.jstor.org/stable/3487337](https://www.jstor.org/stable/3487337)

The basic point of Georgism is that landownership is the root of most of the
economic evil in the world and land should all be expropriated and held in
common. (but don't want to expropriate capital or do anything to it, unlike
the Marxists: Marx called Georgism "Capitalism's last ditch")

So strangely enough, it's not about greed in general, it's about land
specifically.

~~~
baxtr
Interesting! I wonder though what is specific to land which is different from
any other asset or capital in general according to Georgists?

~~~
curuinor
Basically, the social value of land is 100% socially constructed, but under a
system of landownership, it's 100% privately held and all the profit goes to
private hands. There are multiple empty lots very close to downtown SF which
are worth millions, tens of millions that the landlord didn't do jack shit to
improve, that everyone else improved the value of, that the entire value of is
the location. But when the landlord sells, only they get the value.

But it's easy as hell to tax land and impossible to avoid the tax (just show
up with cops, what the hell are they going to do, move the land? - and if they
don't pay, just sell the land to someone else, although usually the aim is to
collect the tax when transactions happen) So tax it. 100%. Georgism's tax
suggestions go: have that 100% land tax (not property tax), have no other
taxes, that's it. Also tax networks which have an inherent monopoly effect, it
was also suggested by Henry George.

Nothing to do with agrarian points of view, really. Georgism was created in
SF, it was most popular in NYC, and it was talking about the problems of the
first properly modern cities in America and Britain.

~~~
mc32
When you don't or can’t own land you end up with favela-like developments.
It’s okay as a sort of transition from homelessness to home ownership but you
don’t want that to be the end stage for a city.

~~~
curuinor
Land value tax isn't property tax. Despite my use of the word "expropriation",
what George specifically suggested was that people would be able to own land,
they just wouldn't benefit any from improvements in land value because of the
land value tax. So you would have to improve property and do something with it
to benefit from it.

------
adembudak
Gosh... I (re)read it this morning, and come across it to here. I developed an
habit that I gift a book to a random person I meet on outside... at a coffee
shop, or on a beach whatever. I usually choose a person that read a book and
go like "hey, what are you reading?" and we talk about it... It's a great
icebreaker. By the time, I happen to buy hundreds of books and decided to
share them. What is the point collecting them and calling it a "library"? It
eventually lead me to meet the people from all shades of life with the
interesting stories.

~~~
christiansakai
Interesting practice. I like to read, around 2 books per month, and mostly
random books (non fiction) that catch my interest. I have interests that are
unrelated to one another, and due to this I find it difficult to just talk
about a book to someone I know, and even more so with strangers.

~~~
CyanBird
2 books per month, really?

What does your schedule looks like? I have a large catalog of books which Id
love to go over, but it can be very hard for me to find the time to simply sit
and read beyond sitting on a plane or a bus

~~~
ConsiderCrying
Do you not have much free time after work? Or do you just feel like there are
better things to occupy it, other than reading?

I always read after a work and manage more than 2 books a month but, then
again, I don't think I've seen a movie or played a video game in at least half
a year, so I'm sacrificing on that front.

~~~
Infinitesimus
I'd wager family responsibilities (young kids, sick family, partner who
doesn't value reading alone for 1hr as much as you do, etc.)

~~~
ConsiderCrying
Yeah, I'm lucky to have no kids and a bookworm partner so I don't get roped
into playing with toys or watching reality TV. The other option in such cases
would probably be their commute to work, if they have one. Audiobooks can be a
real savior there.

------
Tepix
This story reminds me of playing the board game "Deep Sea Adventure" (
[https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/169654/deep-sea-
adventur...](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/169654/deep-sea-adventure) )
with some friends. In this game you try to get as much treasure as you can
from the sea bottom floor. At the same time you share your oxygen supply with
your competitors. We managed to run out of air three times in a row! The final
round was particularly amusing: When the players noticed that (only) one
player had a chance of making it back to the surface, they made sure to use up
the shared oxygen supply since they were doomed anyway.

Fun game, give it a try. Also quite educational, just as this excellent short
story.

------
lukaa
I'm glad that Tolstoy found it's place on hacker news. His Christian anarhisam
and nonviolence doctrine influence basically all civil right heroes in 20
century. But it is funny how Georgisam is selected. Just wonder could it be
related with high property price in bay area.

------
bmn__
The story is reminiscent of the
[http://enwp.org/The_Fisherman_and_His_Wife](http://enwp.org/The_Fisherman_and_His_Wife)
archetype.

It teaches the concept of "good is good enough" and the consequences of greed.

~~~
GordonS
Hah, I read that to my kids last night, and the article also reminded me of
it!

------
rjkennedy98
I believe James Joyce considered this the finest short story ever written.

------
redandblack
We had a translated and simplified version of this story for my Tamil class in
elementary school - and distinctly remember this and a few others. So much so,
that I googled a few years ago to realize that the original was from Tolstoy

------
forgotmypw
Russian:
[https://rvb.ru/tolstoy/01text/vol_10/01text/0259.htm](https://rvb.ru/tolstoy/01text/vol_10/01text/0259.htm)

------
notlukesky
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passwords will be sent in clear text.

------
newnewpdro
Curse you HN, here goes another unplanned multi-hour diversion.

~~~
mathgeek
The story is quite short. Easily completed in 10-15 minutes of focused
reading.

~~~
jacobush
If you really _think_ about the story, it can be a multi-hour diversion. (Or a
multi-year diversion.)

------
anoncow
Archive link:

[https://web.archive.org/web/20200105211507/https://www.onlin...](https://web.archive.org/web/20200105211507/https://www.online-
literature.com/tolstoy/2738/)

~~~
IA21
Mirror for ctrl+f

------
epaga
Absolutely love this short story, it really gets under your skin.

In one sense, I'm pretty sure it's a riff on Jesus' parable of the rich fool
(recounted in Luke 12:13-21). In both cases, the sudden & unexpected death of
the main protagonist shocks you into thinking through their (and by extension
your own) value system.

------
elcomet
In french (Le Moukik Pakhom):

[http://www.metafora.ch/wp-
content/uploads/2015/06/Tolsto%C3%...](http://www.metafora.ch/wp-
content/uploads/2015/06/Tolsto%C3%AFPakhom.pdf)

------
perfect_kiss
The story of climate change from mid-20 century to present day, at a glance.

------
anoplus
What a coincidence. Yesterday I searched for short stories on the web, to read
before bed and saw this one. Now in HN.

------
mirekrusin
\- how much is enough?

\- little bit more...

------
discreteevent
Antony Beevor mentions this story his book about Stalingrad. It's in reference
to Hitler's stategy on the Eastern front.

