
Ask HN: you're rich, now what? - ryanwaggoner
This question is just for fun:<p>Let's say you sold your startup yesterday for enough cash that you never have to work or worry about money again.<p>What would you do now?
======
sivers
I sold my startup a few months ago for enough cash that I never have to work
or worry about money again. <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=341565>

I went to the most peaceful spot I could find, and relaxed. I did nothing.
<http://www.vimeo.com/1292105>

After only a couple days, it was never more clear that I was never doing
anything for the money anyway, and the reason I'm always working, driving,
pushing, learning, growing, and building companies is NOT about the future-
goal but increasing the quality of my present moment. It's exciting! It's fun!

So, I started working again. Not because I have to, but beacuse I want to. It
makes my brain spark in a way that not-working doesn't.

So here I am again, programming, excited about some new thing I'm working on,
exactly the same as before I sold the company. I didn't buy anything because
there's nothing I want. My debts were already paid off.

Philip Greenspun's article really does describe it best.
<http://philip.greenspun.com/materialism/early-retirement/>

So does Felix Dennis' book How to Get Rich.
<http://www.amazon.com/dp/1591842050>

Feel free to contact me directly if you have any specific questions you don't
feel comfortable posting on the board here. <http://sivers.org>

\- Derek

~~~
gridlock3d
What I would really like to know is how much money it takes to get to that
point.

$5 million isn't enough according to a very interesting New York Times
article: <http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/05/technology/05rich.html>

So how much does it typically take for someone in Silicon Valley to "solve the
money problem"?

~~~
ryanwaggoner
$5m invested invested fairly conservatively can throw off 8%, or $400k / year.
I'm sorry, but if you can't live on $33k / month, even in the Bay Area, you've
got problems.

A couple of those people in the article have homes worth over $1m that they
own free and clear while they work 70 hours a week to make ends meet. Not
smart. Mortgage the house to 70-80% (rates are dirt cheap right now) and
invest the cash at the aforementioned 8%, which adds $100k / year to your
bottom line, plus the tax benefits.

~~~
newsycaccount
Please link to a single "conservative" investment with an 8% yield.

~~~
gaius
Right now you can get 6% in the UK on a no-frills deposit account at Tesco
(hmm, thought they were a supermarket) but that'll be taxed so it's more like
4% real. Which is barely keeping pace with (real, not official) inflation.

~~~
weavejester
The base interest rate in the UK is at a 57 year low at the moment, so UK
banks might not be the best place to store $5 million ;)

~~~
gaius
True, but banks lend to each other at LIBOR which has remained stubbornly
high. Only a few weeks ago some were offering 8% 1-year deposit accounts to
get any cash they could get their hands on.

------
pg
I know this isn't the sense of "now" the question intended, but what I'd
recommend is taking a long vacation, to clear your head. You can't usually do
this immediately after selling, because you have to work for the acquirer for
a while. But when you finally leave the acquirer the best thing you can do is
go somewhere far away for at least a month.

------
rcoder
Improve the world: start a charitable foundation; support amazing candidates
for public office; invest in social services for developing nations.

Improve yourself: go back to school and get a degree in history, or music, or
art; travel to another continent and live somewhere new long enough to learn
the language; write a book, and read a lot of other peoples'.

Improve others: get your teaching certificate (usually <1 year of school) and
teach math to middle-school students; tutor kids at a local library or after-
school program in computers; adopt.

~~~
logjam
Admirable goals...none of which require we be rich...and many with which
riches will interfere.

~~~
gasull
For traveling around the world or working for a non-profit without a salary
you need financial independence.

------
strlen
Get a house in the Santa Cruz mountains large enough to hold a decent sized
library and a miniature lab/computer history museum, invest the money to get a
speedy Internet connection there. For the next few years spend the rest of the
time reading, writing code (especially code that can't immediately be
"something people want": design and write programming languages and OSes "just
for fun") doing photography (build out a proper studio and dark room) and
collect historical/esoteric hardware (e.g. PDP-10s, VAXen).

Then in few years, attempt another start-up (but without risking my entire
wealth on it - won't put more $100k into it) and if that fails, take a job
(without regards to pay or seniority of position) at a research lab /
university / technology company I believe in.

------
ratsbane
I'd go back to school and study bioinformatics. I've seen too many friends and
family suffer slow deaths from cancer, Parkinson's, and soforth and I think
the solutions to those problems are only a matter of time. To be even a small
part of that solution would be the most satisfying thing I can imagine.

~~~
antiform
If it's so important to you personally, what is stopping you from going after
it now?

~~~
etal
Doing the legwork to get back to school and lining your life up with the
admissions schedule can take a year or more of planning before it's safe to
quit your day job. It helps if other people you know are doing the same thing
at the same time. But one thing it doesn't require is getting rich beforehand.

------
noonespecial
Honestly, keep it a secret. Live like I've been living and worry _much_ less.

I've found (by other people I know actually getting rich) that there's really
nothing you can say or do with your money where you won't come off as a
condescending prick to _someone_ who knew you and imagines that they are in
some small (or not so small) part responsible for your current success.

Failing the "keep it a secret" part, Warren Buffet's life suggests that just
implementing the second part will go a long way in itself.

~~~
jimbokun
Sounds like this is the approach the funeral director with $250MM in IBM stock
took.

------
kirubakaran
1\. I'll spend time learning well. My current disjointed knowledge frustrates
me. [math, physics and computer science]

2\. I'll work on creating beautiful, useful, innovative products.

3\. Backpacking, flying paper planes, watching cartoons, video games, reading
fiction by the fireplace, writing, etc

4\. I'll fund cool projects using the YC model.

[I do these things now on a smaller scale. If I'm rich, I'll be able to do
much more of these, which would be awesome.]

------
jodrellblank
Grow my hair long (again) and get someone good to make it look stylish and
neat. Buy some nice clothes, such that I don't have to worry about not having
any sense of clothes.

No office dress code, woohoo.

Do some startup funding on useful wearable keyboards, better software for
small helpdesks/teams (I have plenty of ideas), better software/user
interfaces for virtual desktops, but with grouped applications by user task.

Inject self replicating nanobots under all of Africa, acting as a synthetic
water table, pumping, purifying, filtering seawater from the coast and
bringing it inland, then piping it up to the surface.

Secretly hire a contracting company to rip out the traffic lights at a nearby
road island and replace them with my new design. Keep stats and, when
convincing enough, announce the change to all and pressure to get all traffic
lights in the country moved over.

Bring some ultra-fantastic business internet access to this area for a
reasonable cost, spam the town with wifi and build a couple of good
datacenters around, buy various shop facilities around the town and
surreptitiously start selling the right kinds of interesting things, buy a
couple of central indoor spaces and run barcamp/unconvention/XYZcons
regularly. Try to seed and cultivate a high tech, hacker friendly yet quirky
and personal friendly cafe style environment around here. Or maybe in another
country with better weather. Or maybe both.

Daydream, in other words, while feeling awkward, guilty and undeserving.

~~~
t0pj
You're in Dallas, too?

------
wschroter
It's true about those who are endlessly fueled by creating something - that
doesn't change. You might not do it for money, but I'm not sure that really
matters.

I sold my first company in 1997 and am launching my 10th in January. It never
gets old.

~~~
sown
Wow! Where do you get ideas from?

------
jws
Finding myself in a similar situation, my answer is... "I don't know, I've
spent all my attention getting this done, I'll work on what comes next now."

Most people give me the eye like "Ah ha! He has some plan that he isn't ready
to divulge.", but really. I don't know. I'm working on it now.

------
brk
Do it again.

Once is luck. Twice is skill.

~~~
sebg
brilliant. reminds me of the missive: if you are the type of person who would
stop working once you obtained a fortune, then you are never going to get a
fortune...

~~~
modoc
Define work?

Hopefully I'll get to the point where I can live comfortably off the wealth
generated by work I've already completed. If I do, at that point, I won't stop
using the computer. I won't stop writing software. I will stop setting the
alarm clock though, and I'll stop saying "I have to work" to my wife when I'd
rather be spending time with her, and I'll stop working with hard deadlines.

I won't sit on a beach all day, but a few hours a day would be very nice!

~~~
sebg
I work in finance (trading) so from my perspective, I have seen many people
come into this field wanting to "get rich." They soon find that the most
successful investors/traders are not those who want to get rich, but rather
love financial markets. So I am in complete agreement with you. The
equivalent, I think, would be me joining a web app startup to "get rich"
because I want to be "rich", rather than I am passionate about exploring the
problem space that I will solve with the web app.

As a side note, the reason this is always the first site I visit when I am on
the internet -- because everybody is exploring their chosen problem space
passionately for the fun/excitement of it.

------
critke
Goof off for a while. Then do it again. Because goofing off is only fun for a
while.

------
raju
I don't work for a startup, and I don't own one - But to answer your question
-

To me being rich is not about money, its about being able to do what I want to
do, when I want to do it. Money only buys me freedom, and thats it.

Having said that, I would sit back, kick of my shoes for a couple of months,
and spend time introspecting. What's my purpose, what do I want out of life.
Then go out the pursue that.

Spending time on a quiet beach sounds great, but gets old quickly.

And yes, 2 chicks :D

------
edw519
2 chicks

~~~
tjic
That's it? If you had a million dollars, you'd do two chicks at the same time?

~~~
edw519
Damn straight, man. I've always wanted to do that. I figure if I were a
millionaire, I could hook that up. Chicks dig guys with money.

<http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Office-Space.html>

~~~
strlen
Well not all chicks...

~~~
PStamatiou
Well, the type that double up on a guy like me do.

~~~
strlen
Good point.

~~~
tlrobinson
_[insert comment about how Hacker News is becoming Reddit]_

~~~
edw519
_[delete comment about inserting comments]_

------
dmoney
Not that we need another Office Space reference, but I would do nothing. For a
while, I would drift and do nothing in beautiful and interesting places.

When I'd done enough of nothing, I'd create and record some music. Rock,
techno, maybe a hybid of both.

Then I'd try and rediscover the joy of programming, now that I didn't have to
do it for money.

I don't think I have to be rich to do all of this (though that might get me
nicer accommodations, better guitars, and more impressive equipment), but
haven't yet figured out the details of how to do it from my own economic
situation. Getting out of debt is probably a good starting point.

------
Prrometheus
I'd be like the paypal guys and fund a lot of crazy/awesome/futuristic
projects (The Seasteading Institute, Space X, Tesla Motors).

Then I'd fly to the moon in a craft that costs less than $100 million and
paint a big fat logo up there.

~~~
owkaye
"Then I'd fly to the moon ... and paint a big fat logo up there."

Or you could get Hancock to do it for you ... :)

------
ercowo
spend time with my wife. walk the dog. go for hikes / ski / see the outdoors.
read books on philosophy. generally, lead a life of quiet contemplation

~~~
rfurmani
> spend time with my wife

Trying to off-load your wife on other people? tsk, tsk

------
pstinnett
Depending on HOW wealthy I am:

\- Clean up all friends/family student loans and credit \- Build a new house,
buy anything I want \- Start a college fund for my nephew \- Do it again

~~~
ph0rque
In your place, I'd make college funds for nephews (or anyone for that matter)
obsolete, by making education really inexpensive if not free.

~~~
pstinnett
Depending on the amount of $ I have, I agree with this. If I was only filthy
rich, family education would come first. If I was stupidly/insanely/infinitely
rich, everyone would benefit from free education.

~~~
ph0rque
I spent ~1.5 years working on an app that would do just that. I've since put
the project on hold: the problem is just so huge that it's very hard to
whittle it down to "just" an app that can be made within a reasonable amount
of time, and have it be useful.

------
iigs
1) Kick myself for not selling six months ago when valuations would have been
stupidly higher (relatively speaking). :) I think this is the grown up version
of "I'd wish for a million wishes!"

2) If the money is larger than just being comfortably set, I'd split it into
two pieces -- one being a charitable giving platform modelled after the Bill
and Melinda Gates foundation (
[http://www.gatesfoundation.org/grantseeker/Pages/foundation-...](http://www.gatesfoundation.org/grantseeker/Pages/foundation-
grant-making-priorities.aspx) ).

3) The other half into a fund for playing / investing / geeking. I think once
you get to the point that you have enough money that you don't need to go into
work any more the next horizon is to make other people successful like you
(looking at YC, here)

On the other hand, if it was enough less that this wasn't really doable, I'd
at least structure the money in such a way that I couldn't blow it
immediately. I understand that it's too common for lottery winners to become
depressed and possibly even suicidal after mismanaging their money. It would
be important to cover this before I started spending money on things that I
would think I wanted (Porsche 911 turbo comes to mind immediately).

~~~
bemmu
Wouldn't it be easier to just donate it to the Bill and Melinda Gates
foundation? ;)

~~~
iigs
It would, and it would arguably be more efficient, too. I'd consider it,
depending on the overlap of projects they undertake and the projects I'd
prefer to support.

------
cdibona
If you have kids and a wife, hang out with them. You owe them, as likely as
not.

------
thomasmallen
Maybe I'd found a zoo.

~~~
kirubakaran
May I ask why? I suppose the answer is "why not?", isn't it? :-)

~~~
thomasmallen
Because I care a great deal about conservation but am unwilling to put in the
many years of education required to become a zoologist. I think that I could
run a zoo effectively and compassionately, showing the public these majestic,
exotic animals that are at such great risk while doing my best to return their
species to viability. Isn't that what zoos are all about?

~~~
kirubakaran
Cool! My best wishes to you.

------
JabavuAdams
Duty: * Make sure that if I do nothing else, and barring a collapse of
society, I don't have to work for anyone else again. * Make sure my wife can
stop working for others, too. * Make sure my daughter can afford to go
anywhere for higher-education. If she doesn't want to go to school, provide
her the ability to try startup ideas. * Make sure my parents and parents-in-
law are looked after. * Keep my relatives provisioned with computers, and buy
my Dad copies of Mathematica and Matlab. * If I have sufficient funds, make
sure my relatives can study anything/anywhere they want, as long as their
marks are sufficient. * Prepare to leave some money to various causes.

Fun: * Actually spend the summer playing tennis, instead of in crunch mode. *
Take my parents to Wimbledon, the French Open, the US Open, and the Australian
Open. * Re-activate my Scuba licence, and spend some time diving. * Go sky-
diving * Go on a "shooting range tour" where I fire all those guns you only
see in games and movies, and to some kind of CQB training. * Learn to fly a
plane * Learn to fly a helicopter * Re-learn how to ski and spend more time
doing that. * Spend more time playing piano. Maybe learn the cello, the
violin, or guitar. * Spend some time in extremely remote locations, like the
high-seas, in mountains, or underground.

Non-Commercial Research: * Read even more. Make sure I've read the classics. *
Spend a few years really learning Physics, at least up to EM with relativistic
effects, QM, and GR. * Learn cell and molecular biology fundamentals. *
Research Superconductivity. * Research computer vision, motion control,
learning, and memory. * Research and implement a lifestyle that maximizes my
own cognitive abilities, even if it's eccentric. * Re-learn French and German.
Learn Mandarin and Japanese. * Research and implement programming languages. *
Research meta-programming.

Make: * Build a legged tele-operated or autonomous robot. * Build a submarine
* Start or contribute to open-source projects in games, simulation, and
education. * Start a game studio. * Become a competent illustrator * Make an
animated short. * Make a smart sci-fi film * Build a virtual CAVE.

... you get the idea ...

~~~
JabavuAdams
... learn how to format HN posts ...

~~~
jlsonline
lol at least you can do that one for free...

Having said that, I saved some money and took two years off to pursue all of
my life-interests (mine, in fact, are quite similar to yours) but when it came
down to it, I surfed the web, played games, did a small amount of programming
and just doddled around all day for the majority of my time off. Then I went
back to work.

To me it comes down to one thing: purpose. If you have no specific purpose,
you just get caught-up in day-to-day living. The main thing I learned in my
two years off is that I can accomplish 99% of what I want to do with my life
whether I have a job or not.

------
ivankirigin
"never have to work"?

That doesn't mean anything to me. I want to build things. And some things I
want to build cost lots of money.

Robots, micronations, space elevators...

I'd probably buy a good home theatre system, with giantrobotlasers

------
maurycy
To be rich means a lot of things. You can be named rich if you have either
$10M or $10bn in the bank.

Let's say, realistically, that I have $10M.

First of all I'd cut all unnecessary costs, rent a smaller flat and spend a
year thinking about my life, studying something just to clean my mind,
collecting startup ideas. It is important not to freak out.

Then, I can either go back to the university or start another company. I think
it depends on my thoughts during this gap year.

------
look_lookatme
Live between Mexico, LA and NYC. Spend my days dallying.

Share the wealth with my family.

------
schtog
1\. Pay off everything for me and my closest family. 2\. Buy house on Hawaii
and in Whistler. 3\. Batmobile. 4\. Try to solve a big, hard problem that I
didn't have the means to before. Perhaps not one as "pie in the sky" as "make
solar power work" or "cure cancer" but something along those lines.

------
stcredzero
Philip Greenspun has some thoughts:

<http://philip.greenspun.com/non-profit/>

<http://philip.greenspun.com/materialism/early-retirement/>

~~~
petesmithy
"Most of Europe is simply too crowded and expensive to be attractive to the
average North American."

Who is this Greenspun fella?!

~~~
gcheong
It's true. On my last trip to Romania, Austria and France I didn't run into
any average Americans.

~~~
stcredzero
Makes those places sound a lot more attractive!

------
turtle7
I run to keep in shape. I would spend some of my extra time making sure I was
training to my potential rather than just enough.

I would build a small workshop and/or apprentice with someone to learn how to
do some modest woodworking. It appeals to me as a nice hobby, but one which
time and resources do not allow me to pursue at this point.

I would practice guitar more often/seriously.

I would read more often, and spend more time in quiet reflection.

I would continue to develop applications, as I love many aspects of it.

I would take a vacation per quarter rather than a vacation per year.

Basically, commit more time to improving myself and my skills rather than
committing more time towards improving my financial condition.

------
MaysonL
Join Esther Dyson in funding Fluidinfo.

~~~
gruseom
Your comment caught my attention (I studied logic with Esther's mother years
ago) so I looked up Fluidinfo. This is impressive stuff, and Terry Jones is a
singularly impressive, engaging, understated guy. After browsing his blog for
a while and watching part of some videos, I'm sure I want to see more.

I'm curious how you found out about this, and what you think of it?

~~~
MaysonL
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=386811>

See my comment there: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=388401>

------
cmos
Expand the basement laboratory and revolutionize the world. Again.

------
adrianh
Become a professional musician, and hack on things on the side.

------
teehee
Aside from the usual self enrichment activities. I would set up a foundation
that does many small unique services to a community. Examples: Go around to
different communities to offer free construction to link up sidewalks to make
it more pedestrian friendly. Consulting and financing to small shoppes so they
can stay unique and viable against large competitors. Setup free clinics that
solely cater to helping people sleep more restfully.

------
petercooper
Move to the US. I wouldn't need to be super rich to do this - just have $300k
or so in liquid "doesn't matter if I lose it" funds. Yes, the US's immigration
rules are tricky ;-)

But then? Pursue all of my crazy number of hobbies to excess. Attend Stanford
or a similar institution (for the love of learning, not for a specific goal).
Be able to let my wife find the job she wants rather than the one she needs.
And so forth.

------
swombat
Examine my life with more attention.

(see <http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/24198.html> )

------
raleec
Let's quantify this, what number makes you rich?

~~~
jjs
Definitely one. If your bank account is full of zeroes, then you're not rich,
but with a lot of ones, you are (as long as none of them is a sign bit....)

------
DanielBMarkham
Find the hardest problem that intrigued me personally and start working to
solve it. Hire some top-drawer help to have some great minds to bounce ideas
around. Keep it simple and focus on bang-for-buck.

Heck. I guess I'd do the same thing as now, except I'd have more resources to
do it with.

------
aaronblohowiak
Mega mega rich: I would create an electromagnetic cannon to help us escape
earth more cheaply and rapidly, and invest in technologies to help us colonize
other planets.

Leisure rich: I would study martial arts, get personal training every day, and
work on projects with my friends.

~~~
Psyonic
You'll never get mega mega rich if you go ahead with your leisure rich plan
(assuming you make it there). Which is more important?

------
code_devil
invest your money in social causes, if possible your time into it as well. OR
spend more time on working what you did to be rich on the first place, so you
can spend even more on social causes BUT do take out time to relax and enjoy
with loved ones as well.

------
ashleyw

        • Move to the SF area
        • Attend loads of cool conferences
        • Splash out on some new gear — a new Mac for starters
        • Be able to spend a lot more time on personal projects
        • Start a new startup; its not work if you enjoy doing it. ;)

~~~
nailer

        • Buy more fonts

~~~
yters
Wow, never seen that before.

------
mrtron
I would keep enough cash so I wouldn't have to work for someone again
(including investors).

Then I would continue doing things similar to now, but with no business model
in mind. I would also travel more.

Sadly(?) I think thats all that would change.

------
jamiequint
6-12 months of adventure traveling, lots of reading, and spending time with
people I don't get to see often enough. Buy a fast car and move to a little
nicer place (with a bigger garage). Then start another company.

------
asmosoinio
Do: snowboard and hike on awesome mountains, kiteboard on the nicest beaches,
learn both sports really well, spend more time with family & friends Not do:
spend time indoors staring at a computer screen

------
bestes
Become an angel investor. Help startups grow. Share knowledge. Provide relief
from those who don't know or understand how to really make a startup work.
And, ideally, make more money.

------
mooneater
Time to change the world.

~~~
rksprst
Isn't that what the startup is for?

------
paraschopra
I would do 30 by 30 :)

<http://www.paraschopra.com/blog/personal/30-by-30.htm>

------
cperciva
Write the world's most secure cryptographic library.

~~~
yan
As a personal achievement or as a product?

~~~
cperciva
It would be free and open source -- whether that counts as a product depends
on your perspective, I guess.

------
kirubakaran
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=79057> for reference.

------
subpixel
Keep it a secret, and try to make a difference: <http://is.gd/bPVr>

------
ig1
Non-profit work, my two main ideas are an mturk for charity work and a decent
career guidance website.

------
gcheong
Travel, travel some more then plan my next vacation. Try and qualify for an
Olympic archery team.

------
kingnothing
I'm chiming in a bit late here, but I would probably go to medical school.

------
brianobush
spend _more_ time with my kids: hiking, skiing, building robots, volunteering
with school. Then do it again, except this time I want to control the money
AND the math.

------
jcapote
Besides 2 chicks? Start my own capital management firm

------
jmtame
Do another startup.

~~~
siong1987
I will continue working on it for the acquirer until the acquirer can actually
work it out without me.

------
okeumeni
No more need of VC to do the things I want to do.

------
trey
hoard my money and not share a red cent

------
mdolon
Share the wealth! (cough)

------
time_management
Crank out a novel. Then try another startup.

------
albertcardona
You've got to be kidding me. What _not_ to do? But at least be sure to keep
some cushion of money somewhere, perhaps properly, securely invested.

