
Ask HN: What should I do? - pattle
I work in the UK.  I earn £15000 a year.  For a web developer who has 3 years experience and always gets good annual reviews I feel I am underpaid.  Normally the best course of action is to start looking for other jobs.  But there is a problem... I have a terrible stammer<p>I've had lots of interviews for other positions, infact almost every position I apply for I get an interview for but my stammer that leaves me practically unable to talk in interviews.<p>I've asked my current employers for a raise but because they know my situation and they know my stammer means I interview badly they know I am stuck here.<p>I used to think my code would be able to win these battles for me but I think I'm wrong.  What shall I do?
======
edw519
When you greet your interviewer, hand them this card:

    
    
      |=================================|
      |                                 |
      | Hi, I'm John Doe and I'm happy  |
      | to meet you.                    |
      |                                 |
      | I have a stammer, but we should |
      | not let that interfere with our |
      | conversation.                   | 
      |                                 |
      | I'm an excellent web developer  |
      | and I love what I do. My speech |
      | impediment does not affect my   |
      | work.                           |
      |                                 |
      | What can I do for you?          |
      |                                 |
      |=================================|

~~~
mryan
How about having this discussion in the preliminary emails? Take the card too,
but let them know in advance so it is less of a surprise at interview time.

~~~
goblin89
I'm not sure this is a good idea. From first communications HR may remember
him as _the programmer with a stammer_ , and will have some time to give the
condition undeserved attention. Yet there's even no guarantee that the
interviewer will be aware of that conversation (especially with larger
companies, AFAICT).

~~~
jdotjdot
They're likely to remember him as the programmer with a stammer anyway, aren't
they? At least this way they remember him as the programmer with a stammer who
was brave and addressed it up front.

~~~
goblin89
Or he may come out as insecure about his impediment, fearing it may affect
their decision to hire him.

I have two friends who stutter, and it never occurred to me that their
condition could be worth mentioning[0]. Maybe it isn't as bad as OP's, though.

[0] Unless one goes for an acting career, of course. On a serious note—I know
it's easier to say, but maybe it would help OP stammer less if he didn't
perceive it as something of importance in his professional area.

~~~
jdotjdot
He __does __fear it will affect their decision to hire him.

All I can say, I had an interaction today that reinforced my view. Was at a
friend's house and her boyfriend announced at the beginning of lunch, "Please
just know I have severe hearing problems, so if I don't respond or continue a
conversation we're not actually having, it's not you or me being rude, please
just correct me." I really appreciated him being honest and upfront and it
enables me to better cater the conversation to suit his needs as we spoke. I
recognize that a studder is different in that the interviewer doesn't have to
adjust his way of speaking but rather his listening, but I still think there's
a benefit from the heads up. Maybe just say so instead of giving a card, then.

~~~
goblin89
Notice that the person in your example made the announce immediately before
the event, when it would directly influence the communication. Letting HR know
beforehand that you stutter (and you can't be sure that your interviewer will
be notified of that, too) is different IMO. So your example reinforced my
point of view as well. =)

~~~
jdotjdot
I think we actually agree--I'd also say he should let them know right before
the communication event.

------
edent
1) Yes, you are vastly underpaid. (Unless it's 3 years with FrontPage Pro!)

2) Apply for big companies / public sector. They have massive HR departments
who will send you an equal opportunities form. Disclose your disability and
ask for support during the interview. That should help them prepare for you -
they will also have the budget to support you if you do get the job and
require extra help.

3) Build a portfolio. If your CV and Portfolio are good, then your interview
is basically "can we work with this person." If people are sufficiently
impressed with your work, it won't matter whether you stammer, have dreadful
BO, and have a hobby of murdering kittens on the weekend.

4) Speak to your GP and see if you can get help. Speech therapy isn't perfect,
but it can help.

Good luck!

~~~
pattle
Thanks for your help. I hadn't thought about applying for bigger companies and
disclosing, that should help and put me more at ease.

I have a personal website and github account which should show what I can do
too.

~~~
mryan
Targeting the public sector is great advice - <http://www.jobs.ac.uk/> is
dedicated to jobs at UK universities, hopefully that helps in your search.

If you take freelance jobs from oDesk/PeoplePerHour et cetera, you might be
able to perform all communication via email/IM. This isn't ideal, but could
work as a backup plan if you want to try your hand at freelancing in the
meantime.

------
gee_totes
Yay! Another stuttering dev here on HN! I have a stammer too (stutter here in
the US); you're not alone!

I'll bet that code tests in interviews really suck. I know that they suck for
me.

I think alot of it is going to depend on interviewing with the right person.
Keep trying, and eventually you'll find them. Also, if that doesn't work, you
can always try to pick up totally remote freelance work, but if you're looking
for full-time, you should be able to find it.

One thing that may really help is getting an introduction from a friend (or a
recruiter) to any companies you're interviewing for. I got one job with a
conversation that went like this:

My friend: "Well, I have someone for you, but he has a pretty bad stutter"

Employer: "As long as he's smart and can get the job done, I don't care if he
talks backwards!"

And I got the job.

Real employers (who aren't skeezy and exploitative like your current ones)
don't care how you talk, they just want someone who can get the job done. And
those are the people you should be working for.

In some ways, you can think of the above as a positive selection filter.
Imagine all the non-stuttering schmucks who are out there working for skeezy
employers who care more about how people talk than who can get the job done
(and imagine how shitty the management must be if their hiring is not based on
people's skills).

In closing, I know this turned into kind of a rant without any really good
advice, but I just wanted to give a solidarity shout out to another stuttering
dev here on HN.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to drive-by down vote all the commenters
who are like "herp derp why don't you just stop stammering"

~~~
gamegoblin
Another stutterer here. Fortunately, my stutter is limited to certain phonemes
(generally initial plosives). I can generally just avoid words that I know I
will stutter on, but unfortunately some words have no synonyms. For example, I
stutter on the word "but", so I use "though" anywhere it wouldn't be terribly
awkward.

I have a phone interview coming up this week. Hope I manage to keep a lid on
it!

------
cmadan
As a deaf programmer when I was on the job market I also faced similar
problems that you faced. My issue was with hearing not speaking (although my
speech is also not as good as a normal hearing person).

Here is what worked for me

1\. Persistence. Keep trying.

2\. Target the BigCorps.

They have HR departments and product managers that are sensitized to
disabilities. Sometimes they actually have commitments to a diverse workforce
which can work in your favor. And they are unlikely to shortchange you based
on your disability if you make it through (since it isn't the HR employee or
product manager's money).

3\. Let him know about your disability before the interview.

For me, I had a short 1-minute speech prepared stating my hard of hearing
issue and letting them know they might have to repeat the question 2-3 times
or write it down in the interview and asking them if they were fine with it.
I'd speak it as soon as I sat down in the interview chair. For you, you might
want to send an email before the interview stating that you prefer
communicating via writing? Maybe take your laptop and use Notepad to
communicate?

4\. Do Google Chat + Doc instead of phone screens.

You didn't mention whether most companies want you to do a phone screen or not
and whether you're missing out on opportunities because of this. Phone screens
are impossible for me and using an text relay would take forever, so I usually
ask the interviewer to do a Google Chat + Doc interview instead. Most oblige,
some of them (usually a lazy HR associate) don't for unexplainable reasons.

------
bradleyland
> I've asked my current employers for a raise but because they know my
> situation and they know my stammer means I interview badly they know I am
> stuck here.

They are wrong. They are completely and utterly wrong.

You can have a stammer and still interview well. I once knew a guy named Jack.
He's one of the funniest and most charismatic people I've ever known, and he
had severe strabismus (lazy eye). I'm not talking about a minor case either.
One of his eyes would roll off, staring in to the distance as you were talking
to him.

The eyes have it, as they say, and when you have a conversation with someone
suffering from strabismus, it can be extremely uncomfortable and distracting.
Jack knew this, but instead of being sheepish about his condition, he would
address it head on. He had a clever quip that he used to simultaneously draw
your attention to his condition, as well as communicate that he understands it
can be distracting. It became immediately clear that his confidence out-shined
his condition.

I know this isn't easy advice, but you have to learn to do the same. Based on
the work in your Github profile and the posts on your blog, I'd say you're
certainly worth more £15,000 a year.

Your employers are not the ones who believe you interview badly, you are! When
you stop believing that and put yourself out there, you'll grow past it. Once
you grow past it, you'll earn at a level appropriate for your skill level,
rather than a social limitation.

~~~
Samuel_Michon
_“The eyes have it, as they say, and when you have a conversation with someone
suffering from strabismus, it can be extremely uncomfortable and
distracting.”_

Very true. I have strabismus myself, and I only see with one eye. However,
someone with strabismus can get surgery to correct the position of the eyes.
When I was 19, I had the surgery done, and it made all the difference (it
doesn’t help you see, but it certainly improves how people see _you_.)

Your friend Jack has options. For someone with a stammer, there's no such
‘quick fix’ and it might very well be permanent.

~~~
bradleyland
I don't disagree, but my point has little to do with whether or not someone
has medical options to resolve their condition. Jack didn't have surgery to
correct his condition, but he didn't allow it to limit his confidence.

~~~
Samuel_Michon
I understood your point but I disagree that, when you have a stutter or a lazy
eye, all that's wrong is lack of confidence. I didn't have surgery to fix my
self image, I did it to be able to better communicate. When you're teaching or
speaking in public in general, your eyes are very important tools. With
strabismus, you can't communicate to someone in a crowd that you're watching
them. Jack can joke and quip all he wants, but that doesn't change the fact
that he has a handicap.

~~~
bradleyland
Ok, I still don't understand the point you're arguing though? What advice do
you have for the OP that will _help_ him. Painting him in to a corner isn't
going to help.

You're reading too far in to what I've said. I never said that confidence is
"all that's wrong". I said that confidence can outshine his condition. That
doesn't make the condition go away. I have empathy for his situation, and I
acknowledge that he's got a challenge ahead, but I don't think that's a very
good reason to lay down and give up.

~~~
Samuel_Michon
_“What advice do you have for the OP that will help him.”_

I will give him the same advice that others have suggested. Namely, apply for
jobs with large enterprises and governmental agencies. Disclose your handicap
before going to the first interview, don't allow for phone interviews.
Ideally, your first interviews would be done over IM or email.

Don't feel you need to change anything about yourself before applying for
jobs. Work on your portfolio, tidy up your Github profile, those should do the
talking for you. Working on confidence in speaking and possible speech therapy
are endeavors that you should want to pursue separate from your job search.

 _“I acknowledge that he's got a challenge ahead, but I don't think that's a
very good reason to lay down and give up.”_

I agree.

------
alinajaf
You're getting screwed at £15k, I've never been paid that little for
developing web.

For reference, my salary history over my 6+ year career is as follows:

£20k->£26k->£45k->£450-£600/day

Note that I am a totally average developer, nowhere near as smart or
knowledgable as a lot of the guys here on HN. I have a CS degree, barely (I
got a 3rd), so that helped at the beginning, but most of my luck has been
thanks to an extremely welcoming market.

If you have three years experience, you should be clearing £42k, if not £45k.
I don't know much about speech impediments and how easy/hard they are to fix,
but in this market, _trust me_ , you can achieve £42k+ for fizzbuzz and a
pulse.

EDIT: Modified figures in last paragraph on account of OP having _three years_
of experience.

~~~
robgough
£42k after 3 years? Where are you working - London? That makes rather a large
difference, as I'd be shocked if someone was getting that after 3 years for
web dev here in Manchester.

~~~
alinajaf
Yes, London. I was at £45k after two years, and permie salaries are in general
higher now than than they were three years ago.

~~~
candrei12
Hi, I saw some rates in Lodon for my experience(around £60k for >6 years for
permanent positions). Are these rates before or after taxes ? I'm asking
because it varies from country to country. Thanks Andrei

~~~
toyg
In the UK, salary figures are always gross (pun not intended).

~~~
polymatter
just to clarify for others, gross means before taxes. net means after taxes.

------
dylanhassinger
You are a programmer. You can make value by wiggling your fingers. (Stammering
is just fine!)

The solution: Build a micro product, turn it into a freedom business, and fire
your boss.

<http://fourhourworkweek.com>

<http://lifestylebusinesspodcast.com>

<http://startupbook.net>

Fwiw, self-help products can be gold mines. You might try to develop a product
to help other people with stammering, I have paid for "quit nailbiting" and
"stop being shy" products.

~~~
jimsc
Did the nailbiting thing work?

~~~
kvnn
I recommend [http://www.amazon.com/Mavala-Stop-Biting-
Sucking-0-3-Fluid/d...](http://www.amazon.com/Mavala-Stop-Biting-
Sucking-0-3-Fluid/dp/B0000YUXI0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1364910269&sr=8-1&keywords=nail+biting)

------
msellout
You may be entitled to protection by disability laws
(<http://www.stammeringlaw.org.uk/disability/disab.htm>) that will help you
gain a raise or new employment.

~~~
pattle
Thanks for the link, I will take a look

------
hardik988
Hi pattle - I know exactly what/how you're feeling - I stutter as well, and am
currently interviewing.

The biggest problem of stuttering during interviews is not the stuttering
itself, but rather the break in the train of thought while brainstorming
answers to interview questions.

First off - phone interviews are a nightmare for me - and I almost always fail
to make an impression - because of the several ticks I produce while trying
not to stammer.

I used to think I would do better at face-to-face interviews, since I can at
least write on the whiteboard. Every piece of interview advice I've read says
that one should keep speaking while thinking during an interview, and not just
be silent and think - which is how I work best, because my brain is freed from
the burden of speaking correctly.

When I 'speak while thinking of solutions', my brain automatically starts
focusing on being careful about not stammering, and that really hurts my
ability to focus on solving the questions - which are quite difficult in the
first place.

One solution that's partially helped: I know that many stutterers are much
better off when saying something semi-rehearsed, whether it be a phrase like,
"So the brute force solution is _____ " or whatever. My brain goes into
mechanical mode while saying this phrase, giving it more time to actually
think.

I've never revealed to interviewers that I have a stutter (even though they
would probably suspect that by the end of the interview), but I guess you
should consider what edw519 says in the top comment.

Please feel free to contact me if you have any other questions.

------
mattwritescode
Yes, underpaid (massivly).

Firstly are you sure the companies are not employing you because of your
stammer? Just checking your not going to interviews and putting your feet upon
the table etc (thats not going to get you a job).

To be honest many companies I have worked in have had a range of people and
abilities but at the end of the day what got you the job was your ability to
turn out code.

The best thing to do is apply for positions and arrange the interview, at this
point let the interviewer know about your stammer.

More importantly if they know in advanced then they will be prepared. Let them
know what can be done to make the situation easier for you and for them (i can
guarentee they too will be feeling very awkward).

What will also help during the interview is to tell them how best to help you
manage your stammer.

A friend of mine can speak a lot better down the phone than face to face so at
his work place his boss uses the interval phone system or instant chat to work
with him.

------
masnick
You could also think about freelancing with a business partner who does the
majority of the face-to-face or phone work with clients.

I ran across this interesting freelance/consulting contract yesterday:
<https://github.com/ashedryden/freelance-contract>. It stipulates that all the
day-to-day communication is text-based, with in-person or phone meetings as
needed but scheduled 2 days in advance.

With that kind of contract, you could realistically avoid dealing with most
in-person/phone client stuff, or do it alongside your business partner if
needed.

I don't think this kind of arrangement would look abnormal to a client.
There's efficiency reasons for wanting everything text-based (IM, Basecamp,
etc.) and for having a single point of contact for phone/voice meetings (your
business partner).

~~~
krmmalik
Off topic, but that's a brilliant way to host contracts. I don't know why I
didn't think of this. I'm going to start hosting my contracts for my digital
consulting clients on github from now on.

------
pklien
Do you have a personal brand on the web? Do you blog? Do you publish code on
services like github? How influential are you in the digital world - what's
your social media presence? These are the strengths that matter!

Also, use this characteristic as a strength, in interviews introduce yourself
"Hi, I am ____ - because I stammer, by web work is the best you'll find".

~~~
robin_reala
His github profile looks certainly good enough to bag a job that pays more
than £15k (extreme entry level in the UK, my first web development job was
underpaid at £15.5k and that was in 2004).

<https://github.com/pattle>

------
mikecane
Your stammering problem must bleed into the rest of your life too. Sorry if
this is a question you've heard a billion times already, but have you done any
research about how to get rid of it? A prominent TV personality here in the
states named John Stossel confessed to growing up with a stammer that he still
slightly has and talked about how he was able to rid himself of it.

------
stevejalim
Where are you based, would you be willing to relocate and what skills do you
have? I know a really great, warm web dev agency that is hiring. I can at
least ping you a link. Email address in my profile.

~~~
pattle
Based in Suffolk, Yes definitely willing to relocate. Thanks, I'll be in touch

~~~
petercooper
My e-mail is also on my profile page - if possible, could you send me a CV?
:-) (To be honest, if you have a portfolio/CV online, you might do better
posting it right here as I suspect there will be some interest.)

~~~
polymatter
His personal site is on his HN profile page (www.chrispattle.com). LinkedIn at
(<http://www.linkedin.com/in/chrispattle>)

------
AdamGibbins
There are cures to the majority of speech impediments, if its affecting your
life day to day its likely you can also get this (this being speech therapy
etc) on the NHS - you should speak to your GP for advice. I've often
considered it myself, I have a mild lisp.

------
ses
Wow, off topic I know but this is the kind of question and responses that give
me faith in HN (and online communities in general) being a useful resource for
people to participate in. This is a real world problem of someone who has had
the courage to ask for help and they're receiving some decent responses and
encouragement. My only words are yes I would say you are underpaid and I'm
sure there's a better job out there for you so good luck with the job hunting.

~~~
pattle
Totally agree. There has been so many helpful and encouraging responses!

------
mozmoz
Hello,

1) Get great at what you do. Nothing helps to open doors like a great
portfolio and great track record of success.

2) Maximize the things you can do non-verbally. You are lucky that you are in
the Web Dev industry and are not something like a car salesman which would
require a lot more verbal communication. For example: * Write articles for
websites such as Smashing Magazine. * Contribute to open source projects on
Github. * Start a mailing list offering great web development knowledge and
tips. * Start a web development blog.

3) Get really good at writing. If you don't speak well, make sure you write
well. Your emails should always be professional and well written.

4) Freelance remotely. Through Email/GTalk/Skype Chat/Asana/Basecamphq you can
communicate with clients non-verbally. Client will always want to touch base
by phone at some point, but these great tools will greatly help reduce the
amount of time you need to speak on the phone.

5) Work on improving your stammer. Invest in a Speech Therapist. This could be
a life-long process but if your stammer is getting in the way of your career
it is worth practicing on improving it every day. Don't ignore it, work at it
like you are training for the Olympics. If your job can't give you a raise,
perhaps they can pay for a Speech Therapist.

6) Finally, remember you are not alone. Everyone has disabilities and your
situation is not unlike people who are very shy or who have social anxiety and
who try and avoid face to face conversations. Find similar people to yourself
and share tips and advise and help each other.

Good luck my friend!

------
mattmaroon
Question: can the stammer be fixed, or at least improved? If so I'd make that
priority #1. (Sorry but I know nothing about stammers beyond what I find from
a cursory Google search and my memory of The King's Speech.)

People here will tell you the world's a meritocracy and that if you're good
enough employers will hire you anyway. That's bullshit. I wish it were true
but you know by now it isn't. People act first and rationalize later. They'll
think of all sorts of reasons why they shouldn't hire you due to your stammer.
"He'll be hard to communicate with." "He's a bad culture fit." Etc. They might
all be wrong, and maybe it's their loss because they're passing up on a great
employee, but you'll be consistently undervalued the rest of your life due to
that. You shouldn't be, but you will. Don't let your perception of how the
world should be prevent you from seeing how it actually is.

Perhaps you've tried to fix the stammer, or perhaps it's unfixable. Or perhaps
you just haven't devoted enough effort to it. If it's the latter I'd highly
recommend doing that. I know it's unfair. You're a web developer, not a public
speaker, and as long as you can communicate well with your team it really
shouldn't be a factor in a job interview. But the world is unfair and it is
what it is. Your options are to keep trying to do something you know isn't
working, or adapt to the situation.

(If it can't be fixed I'd try to find a clever way to mitigate it. Lie and
tell people you're a mute for a bit and see if they are more receptive. You'll
have to do some experimentation. I wouldn't do this until I'd exhausted every
avenue of fixing it though.)

Regardless, don't fall back on "my code should be able to win these battles".
It should but it won't, and the longer you spend beating your head against
that wall the more frustrated you'll become.

------
drsim
When I was a permanent employee or contractor I'd always check in on the CW
Jobs salary checker (<http://www.cwjobs.co.uk/salary-checker/salary-
calculator>) when negotiations came around.

I found the salaries and day rates there are a little higher than those I
discovered by speaking with colleagues, but it's a great rule-of-thumb.

Use things like this to press for a raise/promotion or decide to jump ship/re-
skill in more commercial languages.

If your stammer doesn't affect your ability to perform your job (as it's
unlikely to do as a programmer vs. say, a call centre agent) you should be
paid market rate.

Web developer market rates here: [http://www.cwjobs.co.uk/salary-
checker/average-web-developer...](http://www.cwjobs.co.uk/salary-
checker/average-web-developer-salary) ...be sure to go to 'top salaries' for
your county as the usual London weighting is in effect!

------
munr
You're definitely underpaid. Growing up, I also had a mild stammer, and went
through a couple of weeks speech therapy (not sure what age, sometime around
10-11) after speaking to my school nurse about it. You may want to speak to
your local GP and see if you can get some help. A lot of what I learned was
just about how to slow down my speech and breathe, which felt a bit silly at
the time, but over the years it has proven to be valuable. I'm sure you'd also
get some value from some it.

You're also fortunate to be in an industry where online communication is the
norm, and it should be fairly easy to pick up side work and build up your
skills and experience that way too. During my years freelancing, I worked for
clients where 99% of communication was done via email, Basecamp, etc, in which
case having a stammer is a non-issue as very little communication is voice.

Good Luck!

------
gigantor
I'm a person who stammers (probably 7/10 on the severity scale) and make as
much or more than my top peers. I'm also a contractor, go through and pass
more interviews per year than the average full time developer, despite
completely blowing some interviews in moments of silence.

1\. Your compensation is directly correlated to the company you're dealing
with, knowledge of market rates, and negotiation skills.

2\. If your employers do in fact don't give you a raise due to your stammer
and keep you 'locked up', they are unimaginably terrible mentors and leaders
and you need to discard this toxin from your life as soon as you can.

3\. Enroll in stammer-specific therapy. The Camperdown speech shaping program
is one of the more recent ones for long lasting effects.

4\. Read literature about organizational behaviour and power; your quality of
code and unit test coverage has very little to do with winning any battles.

~~~
UK-AL
Do you have any recommendations for literature?

------
eksith
Legitimately, no one can or should refuse to hire you or give you a raise for
the quality of your work due to the stammer. That's outright discrimination.
But as you've seen, that's how some jerks act when they know they can take
advantage of you.

There was a brilliant invention I saw a while ago that replays your own speech
to you at a slight delay through headphones. This forces you to listen to your
words as you speak and so you slow down to catch up to it. Over time, this
improves your speech to a point where you may be able to leave the headphones
behind and speak without aid.

I wish I knew what the invention was called or even where it's available, but
hopefully someone here has heard of the same. This is the only device I've
seen so far to actually cause near-instant improvement in speech.

~~~
zwily
Same idea as the record player in Kings Speech, right?

------
georgespencer
Interview for a job with us. You can instant message us during the interview!
Email address in profile.

------
jackrmcdermott
I stutter also--it's an incredibly frustrating experience for sure, but
there's a lot you can do!

For one, I've been creating iOS apps to help people speak through proven
speech therapy methods (<http://speech4good.com>). We're helping thousands of
people improve their speech right now.

You can also join various support groups through the Nat'l Stuttering Assoc.
(<http://westutter.org>) or the British Stammering Assoc.
(<http://stammering.org)--I> would highly recommend one of these groups.

Most of all, stay positive! You're in great company (Churchill, James Earl
Jones, and more!)

------
christianboyle
Have you considered looking for remote/telecommute positions? Maybe you could
work with a speech therapist at nights while getting paid fairly during the
days and work your way back into an in-office position (if that's what you
desire).

------
shin_lao
Build a portfolio. Work freelance. You'll do most of your work over email or
chat. Your clients will not care about your stammer.

~~~
UK-AL
A lot of people find it extremely difficult to find clients though. I.E Me

Where do you look when your first starting out?

------
danso
Have you tried to bring up the issue at the beginning of the interview, by
saying something up front like: "Hi, great to meet you, just so you know, I do
stutter when I talk, but etc. etc. insert self-effacing joke here"?

Off-topic: I couldn't help but remember the This American Life episode where a
student with a stuttering problem records himself speaking a monologue and
removes the stutters in post-production:
[http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-
archives/episode/203/r...](http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-
archives/episode/203/recordings-for-someone)

------
krmmalik
Have you considered freelancing? You could work remotely mostly and explain
upfront to your potential clients regards your situation. Clients just want
the work done mostly. I understand the lack of regular income could be an
issue, but you could potentially earn alot more than you are earning right
now.

Also, please let me have some of your details and I'll add you to my address
book. I consulting in Digital Strategy and occassionally have a requirement
for someone to do some development work.

------
angus_c
I have a stammer - often very severe. I don't have all the answers but I hope
I can offer inspiration.

I'm now working at Twitter and I speak at conferences internationally. I've
struggled through the issues you have and I used to assume I could never get a
job of any kind.

In the end it's about attitude. Don't try not to stammer. Speak as much as you
can. Be who you are, know what you're good at and let others know it. Always
remember that a good employee will hire you for what you can do, not what you
can't.

------
EnderMB
Out of interest, what kind of Web Development do you do? In my experience, if
you are a PHP developer that primarily uses WordPress, or solely a front-end
developer there are far more employers out there that are ready to shaft you.

That being said, £15k is criminal. I'd not pay a student that little, let
alone someone with three years of experience.

Would you be willing to relocate? London is obviously the biggest place in the
UK for tech jobs, but I would highly recommend looking at Bristol. It has some
fantastic agencies, a few large tech companies, and a good mix of languages
(ASP.NET/C# is strong here, and I see some Ruby and Python work around). Most
importantly, someone with three years of experience would easily rake in
£25-30k. I've worked with a few devs that have come from your area looking for
work, and they all seem to love it here.

Regarding the point of your post, I can understand how your stammer would make
you feel less confident. I know that it's a bit rich for someone on the
Internet to say "be confident", but in reality an interview is as much about
you interviewing a company as it is about them interviewing you. You seem
experienced enough that most friendly dev teams would happily take you on if
there is a mid-level role available. While I would say that you should
definitely seek help if it's this much of a problem I would also suggest that
you try to focus more of your energy in an interview on assessing the
potential job, rather than trying to sell yourself. It'll make the process a
lot more logical, and will probably reduce the stress levels in the room, and
hopefully with that the potential for stammering.

------
sirbrad
Your code should always win the _battles_.

I've had a stammer all my life, it's one the most frustrating things ever.
Here's a few things I'd do/did;

\- Make a portfolio of the dev work you've done. \- When you start speaking
with an employer, mention your stammer before the interview so they know what
to expect. I think this will also help you mentally prepare as well, there
will be 'no' surprises. \- Stay calm & good luck!

------
powatom
> I've asked my current employers for a raise but because they know my
> situation and they know my stammer means I interview badly they know I am
> stuck here.

You work in an industry where you can get away with relatively little verbal
communication. Do NOT let your current employers convince you that you can't
move to a better paid job because frankly, your pay is disgustingly low.

I've worked with 'web developers' making upwards of 25k who wouldn't know web
development if it hit them in the face.

Provided you're not an absolutely lemon at your job, you should be able to
walk into a job paying 22-28k right now, easily. Obviously this depends on
location too, and whether your skills match up to the experience you claim!

Your stammer is nothing more than a hurdle - remember that. Simply accept that
stammering is something you do, and try not to let it get the better of you in
an interview situation. You are applying for the position of a web developer,
not a public speaker.

Your current employers are taking advantage of your lack of confidence - tell
it to them straight that you want a raise because you _are_ being underpaid.

------
benjamincburns
Yes, you're grossly underpaid. You're doing 100% the right thing by building
up a portfolio.

That said, it would be a mistake to think that you can fix this problem with
code alone. While a portfolio can "do the talking" to get you in the door, you
still have to communicate with your coworkers once you're there. I'd second
others opinions to talk to your GP, tell him/her that your speech impediment
is affecting your career. Put just as much effort into working with a medical
professional as you did/are with your portfolio, and over time you'll have no
trouble earning what you're obviously worth.

[EDIT: Also, let your employer know that you're doing these things. Chances
are you're more vital to them than you realize, and all of this will help you
get that raise. But if you do get it, don't let that placate you. Keep
improving yourself.]

[Second edit; I confused this with a Show HN post I was reading at the same
time, sorry. Sentiment is the same, however.]

------
almost
Wow man, you are sooo underpaid. I know there are a hundred other comments
telling you that but just thought I'd add to them. Know this, there are loads
of companies out there that REALLY want to hire you, it's hard to hire
programmers at double your current salary.

Just tell people about the stammer, you'll find plenty who will understand and
be accommodating.

Check out the monthly "Who's hiring" threads on here as well, the latest was
posted yesterday:

<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5472746>

Go contact some likely looking positions on there right now! Seriously, you're
a programmer, programmers are really in demand right now. You can and will
find something better.

Also, fuck your current employer, how dare they take advantage of that to pay
you so little.

Good luck! Why not let us know how it went when you've had try...

------
mikecarroll
Mention it in your cover letter when you apply and pass it off as a strength,
not a weakness--show what you, from your experiences with your stammer
understand about using web development to communicate with users that other
developers just wouldn't naturally understand.

Then, when you go get invited for an interview, make sure you control the
variables of the situation beforehand: remind the person who schedules the
interview that you have a stammer and ask if you can bring a tablet computer
to use to help communicating with the interviewer (or something similar that
would work). If you set the rules for how the interview proceeds beforehand,
it should give you control of the situation and show that you are in control
of being able to communicate and work successfully despite the stammer.

------
danesparza
Understand that your technical abilities are a small part of why people
actually hire you. If they feel they're going to have a hard time
communicating with you, or that you're not a good personality fit -- the hard
truth is most people will pass.

Here is my advice: See a good speech therapist. If your stammer is triggered
by your emotional state, see a good counselor. Take a communications class.
Start interviewing like crazy (just to get comfortable with the process
itself).

I'm giving this advice out of my own experience. All of these things have
improved myself and my spouse's life immensely. You'll feel more confident and
have certain tricks and tips up your sleeve to help you nail interviews.

You've got a lot of life ahead of you. Don't live it out of fear.

------
southphillyman
Wow kind of surprised by this. I worked with a project manager who
stuttered...and his job was literally to talk to clients. Also worked with a
tech lead who stuttered AND spoke in a heavy chinese accent...and he would
give 2 hour lunch and learns and no one batted an eye. Anecdotal of course,
but I'd think software would be the one place where this wouldn't be a
problem. Sometimes I feel like business analyst and technical analyst have
jobs solely to communicate for engineers lol.

Anyway maybe during interviews you should tell the interviewer that you are
stuttering because you are nervous due to the pressure of the interview and
that your communication skills are improved around people you are comfortable
with/relaxed environments.

------
octopi
As someone with a mild stutter (5/10, 8 on bad days) but actually does a fair
amount of public speaking for a living, I understand how difficult this can be
for you. As context for those that have never experienced this before, Nathan
Heller describes it very eloquently in both what it feels like physically and
how it affects one psychologically and socially:
[http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/assessment/2...](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/assessment/2011/02/the_stutterer.single.html)
It was an emotional read for me as it captures so successfully my own
situation, and I'd imagine it will be too for many with a stutter.

I can only offer some anecdotal advice based on my own experiences, but I hope
your situation improves soon (I agree with most of what everyone else is
saying: you are being underpaid.)

\- Slow down your speech. Sometimes my thoughts get ahead of my mouth, and my
words don't come out eloquently. Sometimes when I do phone interviews (or
presentations) I put a little card in front of me that has written in big
letters "SLOW DOWN." Speech pace may not be a factor for you, but this trick
can probably be applied to whatever you're personally going through—put
something on a card that keeps you subtly conscious of your speech. Of course
YMMV if this makes you nervous and enhances your stammer.

\- Practice. I've basically found that all presentations and speaking events
turn out better after practicing aloud. With interviews, you can ask a friend
to help you prepare, and this may help you with "softball" non-coding
questions (e.g., why you looking for a new position, describe a technical
challenge, etc.)

\- Speak more. This goes hand-in-hand with the point above but is really
important. I speak more so I gain more confidence in my own speech, which
helps me get over my stutter. Heller (the article above) makes a great point
in saying that stutterers actually seem to be _attracted_ to professions in
which speaking is a critical part of the role. I somewhat feel the same way,
and perhaps if you realize this, you can too. A stutter isn't something to
cower away from, it's a challenge to step up to and break through.

------
jami
I think disclosing ahead of time is the best advice. Think of the interview as
an opportunity to start working with your company on how to get the most from
you. With three years' experience, you may still be very young, so you may not
have that all figured out yet. But if you let the interviewers know that you
can communicate effectively (even if you have to do the interview via Skype
chat in the same room), that will help quite a bit.

Also know that some interviewers, given a candidate who otherwise meets the
requirements, like to find buried treasure. Persisting until you find a whole
team of those interviewers could work as well.

------
minikomi
I feel like all these underpaid posts are trying to send me a message lately.

------
guy_c
One option would be to partner with an experienced freelance developer that
has work they are looking to sub out to someone else. They can then be the
client facing side of your development skills.

------
piyas
Hi, I stutter, often badly. Think this way - it is the fear that does this to
you even more. I have learnt to live with it, make it your way of doing things
- make people to accept you as you are, you will see you will overcome it - I
worked in UK before. The card idea is perfect. When I public speak, I declare
that I have a speech impediment and offer to re-iterate when needed. I taught
a bunch of college kids in a classroom, all saw me, not my stuttering

------
polymatter
Here are some stats for you about the UK job market for web developers
(<http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/web%20developer.do>). You can use that
in your negotiations with your current employer or to encourage you to look
further afield.

You're doing the right thing blogging and posting to github. I encourage you
to continue. You are definitely worth more than £15k, even in Suffolk.

------
graeme
edw519's comment is a great idea.

I also want to say that stammer's are beatable. My dad had a terrible stammer
when he was young. He managed to get over it, through deliberate practice.

Now he's very social, always has groups of people laughing at parties. Except
for an occasional stutter you'd never know he had had a speech impediment.

I don't remember exactly how he did it, but if you want to know more, send me
an email (it's in the profile) and I'll ask him.

------
lisagonzo
What a beautiful outpouring of human compassion- I'm sorry I don't have
advice, but am truly moved by the outpouring of help from all posts. Lovely!
:)

------
ebbv
I dunno about in the UK but in the US it would be illegal for companies to
discriminate against you based on your stammer, and I know personally I would
not care. I would be fine doing the interview over text if that's more
comfortable for you.

Don't let them take advantage of you. Of course I would need to see your work
to know if they actually are, but if you can write PHP/Ruby and JavaScript
they probably are.

------
zura
I have an occasional stammer as well, but for me it is kind of an opposite - I
did speak quite well during interviews, but it happens only after I get a job,
on a day by day basis - at meetings or conversations with colleagues/friends.

Maybe it is some kind of defense reaction of brain, but it thinks that this is
not that important for everyday life :)

I have to add that I tend to speak quite fast.

------
acangiano
At first I thought this was a parody of the other guy complaining about $115K
a year. Then I saw it was serious. Perspective, eh.

------
mjdn
My organisation in london is hiring. I'll pop you an email with details
tomorrow when I get into the office. Would be happy to meet up in london to
talk about it. I don't work in that department and have no pull with HR but
the organisation does have a big focus on accessibility and diversity so
they'd be happy to make reasonable adjustments

------
stevebot
It sucks if people judge you for your stammer, and if a company lets that get
in the way of the interview, they probably suck too. My advice is keep trying
until you find a place that doesn't judge you. Otherwise, even if you get past
the interview, you will probably find that the company's discrimination will
just leak into other avenues.

------
eitally
Just to add a useful, encouraging data point. My DBA supervisor has a really
challenging stammer, and he's fantastic -- both as a technical leader and a
people manager. We value him highly and his stammer has never, ever been a
problem (or changed the way people interact with him). There is hope!

------
BSousa
I really wished when people posted to complain about their situation they
would give more details.

Where do you live? Can you take freelance work? Available to travel if
opportunity arises?

At the moment I don't have any leads but if I know where you are located at
least, I could try and see if I (and others here I'm sure) could help.

------
chris_dcosta
I conducted a technical telephone interview with someone who had a strong
stammer. I can't say it was easy, but he was the best person I interviewed,
and so he got the job.

You will find the right person to employ you, and ditch the current employer
because like others have said, you are not being paid enough.

------
mhb
1\. You should make the title more descriptive. Maybe _What should I do? I
stammer in interviews_

------
MIT_Hacker
There's actually a great company called Balbus Speech which develops mobile
apps for speech therapy. I've watched someone go from being unable to speak to
perfectly flowing English while using their solutions.

<http://balbusspeech.com/>

~~~
jackrmcdermott
That's right! We develop mobile apps for people who stutter based on proven
methods from speech-language pathology. Our most popular app is Speech4Good
(<http://speech4good.com>)

------
netcan
I'm not entirely sure what this has to do with innovation vs iteration. It's
more about why don't "third world" problems get solved by startups. There are
a few answers to this:

a - It's where the money is. Most of the products in the world are
manufactured for and sold to the rich. That's what rich means.

b - Startup founders are rich or come from rich communities. So are their
investors and advisors. They are also young, urban, techie, etc. So, they see
the things these markets need and make products for them. It's hard to design
stuff for markets so removed from yourself.

c - It's easier to start at the luxurious end for all sorts of reasons and
startups are starting up. Elon Musk gave a good explanation about doing it at
Tesla (offsetting the high per-nit cost of new technology). There are other
reasons that explain why you find many small chocolatiers selling $30 boxes
but few competing with Cadburys. Making stuff cheap is often. harder and more
expensive.

~~~
gamegoblin
Is this comment in the wrong thread?

~~~
netcan
yes. sorry.

------
CiaranMcNulty
Out of interest, do you tell people in advance?

I've interviewed a person with a stammer and the recruiter had mentioned it
beforehand, so we got over the initial discomfort very quickly and carried on
as normal.

And yes, £15k with 3 years experience is LOW.

------
narayankpl
If you want inspiration you need look no further than Winston Churchill. You
could try to overcome it. I really like the card idea below. Why not
Freelance... since most of it is done over mail.

------
shanecleveland
Is there the possibility of programming an app or tool for stutterers? Use
that as gateway to both confront the topic and demonstrate your ability to
overcome problems through programming.

------
DoubleMalt
Drop me a mail if you're interested in working on visionary products.

------
amorphid
Track down some deaf or mute software engineers and ask them for advice. Maybe
you'll get lucky and one of them will hire you!

------
yummyfajitas
Have you considered practicing not stammering? I don't think it'll be easy,
but it sounds like the obvious course of action.

~~~
lucb1e
I think that's what he's been practically doing all his life, or since
whenever the stammer started... Of course professional help may improve some,
so if he doesn't have that already he could apply for it, but it's not as easy
as "practicing not to stammer".

------
sinak
Hey pattle - what sort of web dev do you do? Any particular programming
languages you're particularly proficient with?

------
kvnn
You should post your resume here, or at least let us know what you're capable
of and where you're heading.

------
pattle
If anyone wishes to contact me please see my profile for my email address and
personal website

------
cbm
You should drop us a note Courtney at GeneralAssemb.ly. We'd love to help you.

------
davidradcliffe
Props for asking for advice! Good luck!

------
anonbit
Well I don't recommend doing drugs but this is what I did and it absolutely
worked. Take ecstasy. I am absolutely clinically unable to do any type of
interview, phone or in person. I have a hard time even remembering my own name
during an interview. I flew to an a high level interview in person and for an
engineering position and I taped ecstasy to my crotch. About an hour before
the interview I popped that sucker and let the magic happen. I got the job.
Everyone is different and I don't recommend abusing drugs and do not do this
unless you know how it affects you. But for me it absolutely works.

