
Coconut oil isn't healthy and it's never been healthy - pdog
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/06/16/coconut-oil-isnt-healthy-its-never-been-healthy/402719001/
======
bokglobule
It's precisely the fact that Coconut oil is 100% plant-based, saturated fat
that it IS healthy. The notion that saturated fat causes heart disease has
been thoroughly debunked as sham science. It's the inflammation in the
arteries stimulated by excess sugar consumption (refined carbs, table sugar,
soda, etc) that causes the problem. The body sends cholesterol to the scene to
patch the damage.

Reference: [http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/07/magazine/what-if-it-s-
all-...](http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/07/magazine/what-if-it-s-all-been-a-
big-fat-lie.html)

Best analogy I've heard is "Gee whiz, everytime I see a fire, I see firemen. I
guess firemen cause fires". Cholesterol does not cause heart disease all by
itself.

You'd think scientists and the media, by this time, would have stopped relying
on Dr. Ansel Keyes for their rationale for what causes heart disease. His
1950's "Seven Countries" study was an example of cherry-picked data to support
a pre-determined outcome that was desired.

Reference: [https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-
co...](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-
robert-lustig-john-yudkin)

Finally, I can show you cultures, such as the Inuit, who's diet is almost
exclusively saturated fat and protein and which are healthy (as long as they
stick to their native diet). I challenge anyone to show me a culture who's
diet is primarily sugar-based which has comparable health.

Reference: [http://www.theiflife.com/the-inuit-paradox-high-fat-lower-
he...](http://www.theiflife.com/the-inuit-paradox-high-fat-lower-heart-
disease-and-cancer/)

~~~
heptathorp
So why does the AHA still say that saturated fat raises LDL, and cites
multiple trials? This goes beyond the media and Ancel Keys. Are these studies
not able to control for confounding factors like replacing the sat. fat with
sugars and refined carbs?

For what it's worth I don't think saturated fat is necessarily bad. I don't
have links but I've read a couple of good studies that showed saturated fat
raised LDL in a cohort of sedentary participants, but had no impact on LDL in
a cohort of regular exercisers. This suggests it may be more important to
focus on exercise if you're worried about HDL/LDL.

~~~
semi-extrinsic
Keep in mind there's also increasing evidence that HDL/LDL are symptoms, not
causes of heart disease. Maybe the strongest is the failure of drugs that
lower LDL and increase HDL - they don't make people better.

E.g. Eli Lilly's Evacetrapib: tested on 20k patients over 24 months, LDL down
30%, HDL up 125% - _but zero difference in cardiovascular health outcomes_.
Needless to say it failed the trial and has been scrapped.

[http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2017/05/18/now...](http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2017/05/18/now-
this-is-a-drug-that-does-not-work)

------
eutectic
I stopped thinking the AHA were credible after they stuck dogmatically to
their 'salt is evil' message despite the complete lack of any evidence to this
effect, (and some evidence that low salt consumption is problematic).

~~~
abandonliberty
Salt for some!

(turns out response to salt varies wildly between people)

------
justhamade
"This finding is inconsistent with the cholesterol hypothesis (ie, that
cholesterol, particularly LDL-C, is inherently atherogenic). Since elderly
people with high LDL-C live as long or longer than those with low LDL-C, our
analysis provides reason to question the validity of the cholesterol
hypothesis."

[http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/6/6/e010401.full](http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/6/6/e010401.full)

"We might also point out that the vast area in the middle is shared by both
those with and without heart disease. In fact, the solid line represents about
seven times as many people as the dotted line. That means that the vast
majority of people who developed heart disease developed it with cholesterol
levels similar to those of seven times as many people who remained free of
heart disease."

[https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2011/03/14/genes-ldl-
choleste...](https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2011/03/14/genes-ldl-cholesterol-
levels-and/)

------
HorizonXP
Look, everyone should be making their own informed decisions about their
health and nutrition. I've made mine, and that's to completely cut out
extraneous carbohydrates, and eat adequate amounts of protein, with healthy
fats thrown in for flavour and satiety. I've never felt healthier, more
focused, and full of energy in my life. For me, I stick to green and
cruciferous vegetables. My fats include olive oil, butter, avocado oil, and
coconut oil, in that order. Canola oil is used sparingly. And of course, any
fats normally found in meats, nuts, eggs, and dairy.

Even if you don't subscribe to my way of eating, please understand that the
American Heart Association has a financial interest in promoting this biased
research. They receive most of their funding from private donors, and are
backed by pharmaceutical companies that produce statins which they sell to us
for big money. Finally, in the US, a lot of your food is labeled with the
AHA's Heart-Check Food Certification Program.

To meet the AHA's Heart-Check requirements, you need to adhere to these
requirements:
[http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/HealthyLiving/HealthyEating/He...](http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/HealthyLiving/HealthyEating/Heart-
CheckMarkCertification/Heart-Check-Food-Certification-Program-Nutrition-
Requirements_UCM_300914_Article.jsp#.WUQWesYZN70)

They have a financial interest in promoting these loaded facts so that
companies keep paying them for the label.

Coconut oil is definitely not going to meet those requirements. These are the
same people that keep telling you to eat less butter, and eat more grains. If
that worked, then why are so many of us struggling with our weight, diabetes,
and heart disease? Moreover, I'm sure these studies increased fat intake
without decreasing carbohydrate intake at all, which completely changes the
interactions in the body.

Do your research, and judge for yourself. I just hate that folks are being
told these loaded facts and are being set up for failure.

BTW, as of today, I've lost 18.6 lbs in 53 days with this new lifestyle. It
does work, and I'll be getting a follow-up blood panel in 3 months to confirm
it.

------
mf2hd
Bullshit, the problem is not fat, it's the carbs. Watch this video:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vr-c8GeT34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vr-c8GeT34)
David Diamond, Ph.D., of the University of South Florida College of Arts and
Sciences shares his personal story about his battle with obesity. Diamond
shows how he lost weight and reduced his triglycerides by eating red meat,
eggs and butter.

This one is not heart problem related, but still interesting:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da1vvigy5tQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da1vvigy5tQ)
Can a person be "cured" of Type 2 Diabetes? Dr. Sarah Hallberg provides
compelling evidence that it can, and the solution is simpler than you might
think.

So after learning a lot about it I just started ketogenic diet a couple of
weeks ago (very low carb, high fat, moderate protein). Everything I read about
it says MCT is good, so coconut oil is good. Pure MCT is much better but it's
£18 half litre so I'm not going to cook with that.

KCKO :)

~~~
dogma1138
And what was his caloric intake? Virtually every eat only X diet is based on
the fact that the portions combined with the limitation on ingredients limit
the caloric intake by as much as half. These diets work pretty well on
overweight people since their BMR tends to be quite high due to their body
mass. I would really like to see the person that eats 3-4 500g rib eyes with a
sunny side up on the side topped with half a stick of butter a day for a year
that some how still gets a clean bill of health.

On the other hand eating lean red meat (<5% fat), egg whites and a bit of
butter for fatty acids is a completely different story but then the initial
premise is misleading.

That said unless you get a ton of fiber supplements daily I wouldn't bet on
having comfortable bowel movements on that diet.

~~~
mf2hd
I don't think he was fat. Anyway, obviously it doesn't mean that you can eat
as much as you want, it's never healthy.

I can only speak for myself, my calorie intake is restricted by about 20%.
Most of it has to come from fat, not protein and your biggest problem is how
can you eat that much fat. So lean meat is fine, but bacon, pork, steak is
better :) And whole eggs, butter, cheese, avocados, carb free peanut butter,
mayo. I measure everything, and it's still a lot of food. Since your blood
sugar is basically constant during the day you don't feel hunger.

Yeah, you need fiber, but not a ton, just a teaspoon of psyllium husk powder
daily, I mix it with my protein shake. Works.

Go to reddit /r/keto, there is a faq there.

------
TheSpiceIsLife
I pretty much take the stance that any bit of news that says "don't eat this
thing", without also saying "do eat these things instead" is a completely
worthless energisation of pixels.

From the article: _" While the AHA warns against it, people who cut saturated
fat out of their diet might not necessarily lower their heart disease risk, a
2015 BMJ review suggested. That's because some people fill the void with
sugar, white flour and empty calories."_

So this bit of news translates to saying precisely "blah blah blah blah,
you're all going to get heart disease. We don't know how to prevent or treat
it".

But we _do know_ the risk factors, so we should do those things that reduce or
eliminate the risks: Eat food, but not too much, mostly plants. Fast
regularly. Exercise, but not too much. Relaxy. Practice diaphragmatic
breathing exercises. Get plenty of rest, and ensure you sleep properly. Avoid
those things you find stressful. Have good relationships with your family. Get
a dog and love it. Stop eating high carb foods all the freaking time. There is
no safe level of alcohol consumption.

I think that roughly covers most of the risk factors for heart disease.

You will still die, something will snuff you out eventually.

Edit: fixed a word

~~~
pm90
> You will still die, something will snuff you out eventually.

God someone please explain this to some of my friends who have a minor panic
attack if they accidentally eat GMO food. Like one meal will reduce their
lives by half.

~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
What I say to people who bang on about pesticides and GMO:

The problem isn't that people are eating too many vegetables sprayed with
pesticides.

The problem is that people aren't eating any <expletive> vegetables.

That's not entirely fair, the green grocers and supermarkets sell a lot of
vegetables. But it is a fair description of what I see my colleagues eat.

Also, I don't live in a major city, so my organic grocer options are limited
to precisely one. I should go there more often.

------
mmagin
So, I guess the American Heart Association is still committed to the LDL
cholesterol causes cardiovascular disease idea.

~~~
epmaybe
I'm not sure that I follow. Does high LDL cholesterol _not_ increase your risk
of cardiovascular disease?

~~~
undersuit
There's been increasing evidence that high cholesterol is a symptom of
cardiovascular disease, not the cause.

 _Editing because lots of people want sources._

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4513492/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4513492/)

[http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/panel-suggests-stop-
warni...](http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/panel-suggests-stop-warning-
about-cholesterol-in-food-201502127713)

[http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/6/6/e010401](http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/6/6/e010401)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atherosclerosis#Accelerated_gr...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atherosclerosis#Accelerated_growth_of_plaques)

This is a group I was unaware of until providing you links:
[http://www.thincs.org/index.php](http://www.thincs.org/index.php)

~~~
rarlsatan
There's not much of a correlation. I think only half of the cases of
cardiovascular disease have elevated LDL cholesterol. It's always more
complicated than simply having elevated cholesterol; it's overall diet,
exercise, and plain old genetics that have the largest effect.

~~~
undersuit
Yes, and I'm not advocating that you should inject LDL Cholesterol everyday,
just saying the science may have unfairly focused on one variable.

------
pm90
OMG the back and forth is exhausting.

What I've personally decided is: my entire family has been using coconut based
products for generations and my grandparents have lived to sufficiently long
ages. I would be happy to live just that long and thank you, I will continue
to use coconut oil.

------
Mz
Unfortunately, I am failing to readily find good references, but coconut oil
has long been medically recommended for serious stomach disorders, including
cystic fibrosis (which causes pancreatic insufficiency, among other things)
and stomach cancer. This is in part due to the fact that it can basically be
used directly by the body without digestion. It can simply be absorbed.

I have no idea if it is heart healthy, but this sort of broad dismissal is
unfounded. Maybe it does bad things for your heart, but if you have gut
problems that are literally killing you, coconut oil has a long track record
of helping with those. This can be life saving if your gut issues are severe
enough.

------
jamieomatthews
As someone who drinks Bulletproof coffee (ala Brain Octane oil), how does this
fit in? Is the concentrated coconut oil in brain octane oil also just as bad?
Or is the fact that its very concentrated mean it contains less of the
negative qualities?

I feel like what this article is saying is that, just guzzling oil isn't good
for you, which is obvious, but in small doses, is it ok?

~~~
pdog
From the article: 100% MCTs may increase your metabolic rate, but traditional
coconut oil only contains about 15% MCTs and isn't good for your health in any
quantity.

~~~
jamieomatthews
ah, thanks

------
danjoc
>never

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/03/25/scien...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/03/25/scientists-
have-figured-out-a-simple-way-to-cook-rice-that-dramatically-cuts-the-
calories/)

------
maxharris
If this article is correct, please explain why my blood pressure and
cholesterol figures go through the roof when my diet includes fructose.

Please also explain how and why everything goes back to normal when I cut
fructose out entirely. I am an quite serious - I do not allow even trace
amounts in sauces and mayo and the like, nor in hidden sources such as "agave
nectar" (which is 50-90% fructose).

Oh and BTW, I eat TONS of pasta, saturated fat (including butter), plants, and
a really nice steak every month. I pour heavy whipping cream into my coffee
every morning (not the usual trash, but the fancy expensive stuff free of
polysorbate 80 and carrageenan.)

Unless you're eating a _fresh_ strawberry that hasn't been mutilated in a
blender (and even then, not too many all at once), fructose makes you fat
because it messes with your appetite regulation in the bad direction. Even a
little fructose makes you hungry.

Dietary fat (saturated or otherwise) does the exact opposite: all other things
being equal, it makes you feel sated.

Don't just take my experience over the last ten years into account - here's a
leading endocrinologist that's overturning decades of dogma. He'll set you
right:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM)

------
thehenster
Coconut oil is one of the more stable fats at high temperatures - which is a
health benefit.

Or rather, it's less of a health detriment.

------
Prime-997
Why does the AHA even still exist? Anyone who is at all informed about
nutrition has long ago stopped listening to their nonsense.

The answer is of course that the AHA exists chiefly to promote the financial
interests of the entities that fund them - the processed food industry (i.e.
wheat, corn, and soy), and to give their "heart healthy" product marketing
campaigns the illusion of scientific/medical legitimacy.

------
rollingpebbles
I'm vegan. "Plant-based" is not a panacea and not automatically healthy. This
article is one-dimensional when there are multiple health considerations
including both cholesterol effects, cancerous compounds in cooking vapors and
cancerous compounds like aldehydes generated depending on the amount and time
of heating.

In general, olive oil is the healthiest oil to use for frying, both in terms
of cholesterol effects and aldehydes. Furthermore, oil consumption can be
greatly reduced by good cooking and minimal frying techniques.

The graph in this news report probably started the coconut oil cargo cult,
which overlooked its inherent unhealthiness:

[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11981884/Cooking...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11981884/Cooking-
with-vegetable-oils-releases-toxic-cancer-causing-chemicals-say-experts.html)

------
rabboRubble
Good as cry-proof mascara remover tho. Just saying.

------
ianai
I've been substituting to avocado oil. Seems healthy.

~~~
sr2
Is it expensive?

~~~
zcdziura
I've found that avocado oil is really expensive. I've only been able to find
it at my local Whole Foods. Haven't checked Trader Joe's, though I'd wager
that if they did have it, it'd be a bit less expensive than WF.

~~~
drewrv
Check your local Costco, they had some last time I was in. I forgot what it
cost but I imagine it's a lot cheaper than Whole Foods.

------
cphoover
I feel vindicated. All my hipster friends cook with this crap... My main issue
is it makes everything taste like coconut.

~~~
retSava
> makes everything taste like coconut

I'd say this is a feature :).

