

Another curious soul experiments with Rejection Therapy - briannac
http://rejection.posterous.com/

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po
I could see this as being useful for the horribly timid, but it would be
annoying if it was employed by the general population. There is the underlying
idea that if you aren't being rejected, then you aren't asking for enough.

I know plenty of self-centered people who ask for too much and people oblige
them. Do we really need to celebrate this? Every person doing this is putting
at least 30 people into the somewhat awkward situation of having to reject
someone. I know I don't particularly like having to tell people "no, you can't
do/have that".

How about a therapy where instead of asking for our every whim to be satisfied
until someone says no, we spend 30 days thinking about what the people around
us would want? Perhaps we can call it Empathy Therapy and start a blog
movement!

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crux
This does pretty heartily violate Kant's categorical imperative.

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patio11
That depends on how you look at it. In my philosophy, it is close to axiomatic
that free exchanges leave both parties better off. Therefore, any commitment
strategy which increases the number of exchanges is a win. If everybody
simultaneously implemented it, it would just be a _bigger_ win. The most
obvious way to disagree would be to say that the psychic transactional cost
involved in rejecting an exchange swamps the value of increased trade, which
is almost exactly the pathology the therapy seeks to go after.

The world is an eighth grade dance writ large, where he's too shy and she's
too afraid of being forward, and both parties are a wee bit worse off for
having been alone in the corner when they could have been dancing.

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randallsquared
_In my philosophy, it is close to axiomatic that free exchanges leave both
parties better off._

In externally quantifiable terms, that's something I think, too. However,
there are so many personal examples where it's not really true that I'm
beginning to wonder about it. For example, when a pretty girl comes up to me
(as in the linked blog) and asks me for something I would be reluctant to
provide her with, the very act of asking me has already made me worse off. At
this point, it's true, I can make myself better off than I now am by doing
whichever I would really prefer, but I would be better off still had she not
asked.

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jodrellblank
In what way has the very act of asking made you worse off?

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randallsquared
Because the outcomes available to me have reduced from the three: "continue as
before", "disappoint [person] in front me", or "feel upset about giving
someone X when I would have preferred not to", to only the last two. The first
option, which could well have been the best outcome in my opinion, has been
removed by the act of asking.

Edit: changed the other individual to "person" to be clearer.

~~~
jodrellblank
What about politely refuse and still feel good (or, feel as before) and let
person take care of their own disappointment or not?

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randallsquared
Because I do not want to become a person who doesn't care about his effect on
others.

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jodrellblank
If you think your refusal _makes them_ sad, do you think you have a kind of
telepathy? Isn't believing you control the outside world with your mind an
indication of schizophrenia?

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randallsquared
Is this really the path you want to go down?

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jodrellblank
It's an illustration by absurdity that your thoughts are limiting you and
making you unhappy, and that there are other ways to think which are still
compatible with being a good person and a moral person.

For as long as you hold in your head the belief that your refusal is what
hurts people then you are going to be unhappy about being asked questions.

If instead you held the belief that their expectations and demands in their
head is what hurts them, then you would be free to accept or refuse politely
and in good conscience, and still be able to be a person who "considers how he
affects others".

The fact that you cannot consider saying no is what makes a joke out of your
comment "I don't want to be a person who doesn't care about his effect on
others". At the moment you are forced to accept regardless of whether you care
or not. Caring doesn't come into it, they ask and you force yourself to
accept, you don't get to choose or consider.

If you didn't force yourself to accept because you were no longer afraid that
it was _you_ hurting them, then you would be free to consider their request
unpressured and respond however you felt like at the time, but still respond
based on your morals and so on.

At the moment you say you are someone who cares, but you act in a way that you
ignore your consideration and decisions and marginalise your caring making it
subservient to a fixed instruction. You say you don't want to be someone who
doesn't care, but changing that part of you would free you up to be someone
who can care and isn't forced to act one way or the other.

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a-priori
It bugs me when I read these Rejection Therapy stories and I see them using it
as an excuse to be a jerk, like lying to a taxi driver and asking for a free
fare.

In one of the other stories, they said that it's about making a human
connection with people you otherwise wouldn't have. I think that's a beautiful
idea, and makes me want to try it. But this "I'm going to try to exploit your
goodwill and see if I can get away with it" thing? No thanks.

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dctoedt
It's hard not to notice that 1) she's a young, attractive, and seemingly
friendly female, 2) she only tells of approaching guys, and 3) she doesn't
seem to be asking for anything outlandish or threatening. Small wonder she's
had a hard time getting rejected.

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giardini
Yes, and now she has a lunch date with a young, wealthy and attractive male
who probably has few opportunities to meet an appropriate partner and yet who
is perfectly staged to find a mate.

So seems that things are working precisely as they should.

~~~
cyen
Max Levchin's married (and, judging by his Quora questions of late, also has a
kid.) The lunch is purely professional.

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caseyalbert
I started the 30 day challenge yesterday and I was surprised a) how hard it
was to get out of my comfort zone and b) how hard it was to actually get
rejected.

It wasn't until the end of the day when I finally got a headshake of
disapproval and got my rejection.

I imagine it'd be even tougher for a cute and innocent looking girl to get
rejected. Good luck to her!

~~~
VladRussian
sometimes it is just easier to grant a small favor to a jerk than to spend any
mental energy rejecting/arguing with him.

The most important safety rule on the road - "yield to the moron".

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bugsy
The cab thing is basically taking advantage of being a girl.

~~~
sausagefeet
Maybe we need a 'Say No Therapy' too.

EDIT: I also think it's unfair to say the OP is taking advantage of being a
girl. If the OP is being honest in her account, she legitimately believed the
cabbie would say No. It's naive to think just because you think being a girl
means she can get her way means the OP believes the same.

~~~
bugsy
Yes I see your point. What occurred to me is that what she has learned in that
specific case, of getting a free cab fare worth $30 or $60, is something that
many attractive young women learn about men. Knowing how to work it and being
able to can be a ego booster as long as one is young and attractive. It is not
however necessarily something that benefits the world, nor is it necessarily
good for the person in the long run as their beauty fades and they find men
are not as accommodating. The lessons learned in this specific situation,
while important, are not the same as the general lessons of "rejection
therapy" where one learns to take more risks as a life hack. Once the learning
branches into getting free stuff because one is a pretty girl, then it's
really a different issue. My observation is that free cab fare just for asking
is something that is not available to men. To make sure, I even tried it out
last night and was told "GFY" by the cabbie. I'll keep trying on occasion, but
I am pretty sure I am right that this one has a strong gender age and looks
component to how it works.

Also, want to make clear the cab was the only one I felt this was the driving
factor since it was a pretty expensive free gift for a businessman to just
hand over to anyone. The forklift lessons were a pretty good and reasonable
one since it's not a common request, you learn a useful skill, and the driver
often will enjoy it as well so that all parties benefit. In my opinion, the
sorts of deals one wants to work with their confidence and curiosity are ones
that benefit all parties, and not only one sided.

~~~
sausagefeet
Again, if we trust the OP in their account the only reason she asked for the
ride was because she expected the cabbie to say no. I hope she doesn't see
this as an indication that she deserves free cab rides.

Btw, not sure where you live but it must be McRichVille if a 20 minute walk is
a $30 - $60 cab ride.

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kawera
An interesting experiment done more than 30 years ago and the impact in their
lives:
[http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D05E4DF1130F...](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D05E4DF1130F937A2575AC0A9629C8B63&pagewanted=all)

~~~
bugsy
That is extremely interesting, the experiment finding out that the effect on
the person asking the favor was the most striking dynamic of all.

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kleiba
I still don't understand this whole thing - I get rejected multiple times a
day all the time! For god's sake, what's a hacker good for if not for being
socially inept?

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abk
Many shy people tend to avoid situations where they think they may get
rejected. I think the point of the experiment is to show them that they could
be happier / better off if they didn't take rejections so personally / weren't
afraid of getting rejected.

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zugumzug
This seems like a situation where the one would have to be very careful to
adhere to the spirit rather than the letter of the challenge. The possible
positive outcomes are really great though. I've often been pleasantly
surprised (even overwhelmed) at how far people are willing to go to help me,
often at great trouble to themselves.

~~~
VladRussian
because people think that you really need what you're asking for. By asking
without need, you're exploiting the human species community safety net. Only a
jerk would reject a request for help, and only a jerk would exploit that
situation.

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Almaviva
I suppose rejection therapy using internet personals every day would be way
too easy!

~~~
phlux
Are you free for lunch on Thursday? Your treat,

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aubonpanzer
Has anyone tried Feynman's not so subtle approach: "Will you sleep with me
tonight?"

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known
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility> explains social rejections

