
There is no Jake Frink - lpr4
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/im6r4/there_is_no_jake_frink_and_teevox_has_pulled_an/
======
patio11
So I have a friend. For the purpose of this post, I'm going to call him
Hideyuki Chikafuji. That isn't his name, but it gives the right sort of feel.
He works as a well-paid professional in an industry which isn't investment
banking, but could be. He has a degree from Northwestern in, well, let's call
it Physics. Magna cum laude.

What question do you think he gets asked in _every_ job interview? If your
answer was "Do you even _speak_ English?", you win a gold star.

Hideyuki recently got his first name legally changed to Frank. _Whammo._ No
more awkward questions.

I would further note that there is at least one person widely respected on HN
who does business under a name which is not their birth name, specifically to
avoid pervasive problems with this issue in _our_ industry. (His story is not
mine to tell.) The practice is also endemic in journalism, acting, etc etc
etc.

It probably isn't the only issue: Redditors are nortoriously anti-capitalist,
too, so it's much more convenient to be a community-minded hobbyist developer
than to be a corporation (gasp!) with investors (gasp!) and hundreds of
thousands of dollars (gasp!).

P.S. If race is totally not an issue, it would be a wee bit _instructive_ that
people get so pissed of when someone pretends to be a white guy.

~~~
shii
I think you're mistaken about the issue at hand here, patio11. This has
nothing to do with being anti-capitalist or having an Asian sounding name.

This has to do with lying to the community about your story, playing up the
good parts and running under a false narrative for no good reason. As pointed
out in the linked thread, a competitor to Teevox, WellPlayed.tv has been
completely transparent about the fact that it's a company that runs it, not
some unemployed dude fantasy, it lists the exact users who represent it, and
doesn't do things like violate Paypal TOS and solicit donations under a false
name for a corporation. Also, this is not OSS Teevox is peddling here. They
were actively receiving funds for profit and nothing was Open Source about it
in the least.

------
timsally
I've been using Teevox (Warp Prism) since the first version was released on
Reddit. For those unfamiliar, it is a web application that provides a
convenient interface to watch the video streams of professional Starcraft
players. It was marketed as the effort of a single developer, a labor of love.
Donations were solicited to that effect and I'll admit I was taken in by the
whole thing. The narrative was appealing to hacker and Starcraft fan alike.
I'll wait to hear a response from the developer, but if the whole thing was a
marketing ploy its a damn shame.

~~~
athst
They were taking donations in the name of a fake person? At first it sounded
like they just got caught doing a harmless marketing ploy, but if they were
taking donations, that's way worse.

~~~
timsally
Nothing is confirmed yet, so I'd be careful about jumping the gun. What is
true is that the first version of Warp Prism was released by a guy named Jake
Frink. He claimed it was his solo project and it was his way of giving back to
the community. There was a lot of interaction with Jake on Reddit. Personally
I found it really cool. People gave him feedback on Warp Prism and bug fixes
and features were put out on a rolling basis based on community feedback. I
guess the issue being brought up now is that Reddit suspects Jake is a fake
narrative, essentially a marketing strategy for a company. And yeah, there was
a donation button on the initial versions of the site.

I personally don't have a problem with some guys making money off of a product
like Warp Prism. I'd pay a monthly subscription for it. But what would be an
issue for me is if a story was fabricated in order to market the product. But
like I said, lets not jump the gun here until we get both sides of the story.

------
jiggity
Hi everyone,

I apologize for this mess. I made a video telling my story:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiRzBnlbpUs>

~~~
patio11
You don't owe anybody an apology.

There's a probably apocryphal story of the ancient Romans having a dwarf in
the chariot with generals at their victory parades. His job was, when the
throngs were shouting the general's name, to whisper "Nah, you're not really
that special."

Sometimes I think some folks need whatever the opposite of that dwarf is. I
know I have needed it on a time or three. Ignore this if I'm stepping on toes,
but otherwise: you're doing pretty darn well. You got into YC. Yeah, you had a
product shot out from under you, but it happens. All your buddies will tell
you the same. You then subsequently made something which is both technically
impressive and rabidly loved by users. Very, very few people can say that. (It
may not look that way, given selection bias among the folks you know
personally, but trust me: hundreds of millions of dollars has been spent to
less effect than making WarpPrism. Many, many times.) And you're clearly on
the ball with talking about the product, which is another thing that not all
engineers are good at.

If continuing in the project is what you want to do, great. If you ever want
to try something else or just hear "No dude, seriously, you're awesome", talk
to someone. I'm _positive_ anybody in the greater YC mafia would say that or
help hook you up with the next big adventure, whatever you want that to be.
(FWIW: I would, too.)

Also FWIW: Reddit is sometimes bat-shit crazy. I would not let their current
opinion of you factor too highly in your "Am I having a good day?" barometer.

~~~
irrumator
Yes, during the Roman Triumphs[0] during the Republic and heavily during the
Roman Empire there purportedly was a slave who held the wreath of a victor
over the head of the Imperator or who ever else was being celebrated and
whispered phrases like _"Respice te, hominem te memento"_ \-- Look behind you,
remember you are only a man and _"Memento mori"_ \-- Remember (that you are)
mortal.

[0] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_triumph>

------
chipsy
Gamers can be really sensitive to this stuff. Most games are easy to pirate,
and game communities tend to grow out of faith in the developers and a desire
to be "included" in their story, at a level beyond the typical customer
relationship. Add to that the fact that gamers are usually pretty smart and
motivated, and you set yourself up for a shitstorm if there's a hint of
betrayal.

In this instance, the company received _donations_. That is one serious
perversion of karma.

------
ohashi
I can't rationalize this strategy in this circumstance. You have a small tight
knit community of starcraft viewers who religiously watch streams. You create
a product to cater to this audience. You lie to your audience about the
origins. There is no broader audience you're trying to gain before your deceit
is revealed. If there was some broader race against gaining wider traction, I
might understand. But in this instance, it makes no sense. Funded and
organized groups have gained support, this audience doesn't really hate
companies like some niches. They like a good product.

------
coryl
I don't understand how (or why) this is even a marketing ploy. Users would
have adopted it just as well if they admitted that they were two developers
and left it at that.

Even if they're working on it full time, it actually IS a side project! The
end user doesn't suspect a profit motive because there really is none at this
point.

So why lie at all? Seems completely redundant.

------
mlinsey
OK, so this is the second time in a week I'm going to have to post this PG
quote: "Your comment is a classic instance of people on a forum rushing to
judgment based on incomplete information. It's isomorphic to the sort of thing
one sees on reddit, except that it's about startups rather than the federal
government or international bankers."

Edit: it looks like Jiggity (aka Jong-Moon Kim, Warp Prism's creator) has gone
and posted a lot more details here:
[http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/im6r4/there_is_no...](http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/im6r4/there_is_no_jake_frink_and_teevox_has_pulled_an/c24vqb7)

If he's come forward and put all the details on the record, I feel comfortable
putting a lot more details here, along with my own commentary on the whole
mess.

Jiggity was indeed a co-founder of Teevox, which was in last summer's YC
batch. He and Andrew were one always one of the most energetic, technically
impressive, and just fun-to-be-around founders in the batch. Seriously, one of
the bright spots of weekly dinners was always the corner of the orange room
where the Teevox demo was set up each week, greeting passerby with equal parts
cheeriness from the founders and magic from the slick Hulu demo.

Which is why it was so heartbreaking when Teevox was one of the first startups
in YC S10 to die. It was a sober reminder to everyone that coming up with a
clever product just isn't always enough, and we're all in a low-success-rate
business.

In any case, Teevox is gone. Dead. Kaput. No longer there. Corporate entity
unraveled. It happens to startups. People who spend time here should know
that, even though the reddit posters cluelessly assume that Teevox lives on
with a team of coders and a "slick marketing team".

Andrew went back to school but Jiggity decided to keep on plugging away at
some side projects. One of them turned into Warp Prism. I think that this is
fucking awesome. In fact, it's pretty much the classic startup feel-good
turnaround story: smart hacker down on his luck, has a startup shut down and
fail, keeps on hacking away and eventually stumbles upon something people love
to use. He keeps on iterating on the product, out0executing a similar
competitor all by himself. (one of the posters in the linked thread said s/he
was always suspicious that WarpPrism could ever have been built by one
person!) Awesome! This is the classic inspirational never-give-up narrative in
action.

Except in this case, some moron hiding behind an anonymous pseudonym does a
simple whois search, discovers that the domain is registered to the same guy
who happend to found a startup the year before and - gasp - concludes that
s/he's unearthed the scandal of a century! WarpPrism _can't_ be the work of a
lone hacker, it must have a whole "slick marketing team" behind it! Angry
reddit mob, enter stage left!

I do not know why Jiggity chose the name "Jake Frink". (In retrospect, isn't
that um, sort of obviously a pseudonym?) I do know that Jiggity has previously
used various aliases in everyday conversation, and rarely his real name. But
the reality is, aside from that one name, every other detail of the original
story is true.

Why was everyone so quick to rush to judgement? Is it a reflexive distrust of
anything that might be backed by a company? Is it a predisposition to believe
in a made-up but apparently widely perceived trend that, in the words of
another poster, "the newer YC bunch are playing dirty to win"?

In any case, this time it makes me upset. It's one thing if people mis-read a
boilerplate line in the Dropbox ToS and decide to get angry over that; Dropbox
is doing well and will be fine, internet mob or not. But this is different.
This is not a large successful company, it's just a friend who has bravely
marched straight through the hell that every startup founder has nightmares
about. but the one that is never far from my mind when it's racing late at
night - the idea that all your hard work will eventually evaporate.

I went through that period once when my first startup died four years ago, and
it put me into a rather severe months-long depression. Thankfully my current
startup is doing quite well, but the memory of what happened before and the
gnawing fear it could happen again is never far from my consciousness late at
night when my mind is racing and I have trouble falling asleep. I think pretty
much every founder feels the same way all the way until (at least) the
liquidity event. It's a special kind of overbearing stress that only other
founders can truly understand.

Jiggity pushed _right through that_ , and created a kickass product people
loved using. The three months after my first startup died I spent mostly half-
heartedly applying for jobs and walking around the streets of Palo Alto in
sort of a daze; Jiggity spent that time single-handedly creating the best way
to watch StarCraft 2 games in the world. And when those users find out, that
_gasp_ , the creator of the product they love so much was using a pseudonym -
this is how they react.

I advise everyone who reads Hacker News and is thinking of one day starting a
company to think of Jiggity's story as inspirational, and the reaction to it
as a warning. In the end though, despite the fact that I was moved to post
this long rant, I know he'll get through it just fine. He's thrived after
going through much worse.

~~~
angryasian
I think they are more upset that he is denying ad income from JTV streamers
and putting up his own ads. Also intentionally misleading the community, why
not be upfront from the beginning.

~~~
dooraven
He's not though, only Pre-stream ads are disabled due to the problems it would
cause while switching streams.

All the ads that use "/commerical" work fine

~~~
angryasian
ok he's not blocking all, he's blocking the most revenue generating ads for
the streamers. As a streamer the pre-roll ad is the most important and brings
in the most revenue.

~~~
dooraven
He just responded on this, it isn't intentional, it's a bug in Justin.tv's API
so he's not blocking any of the ads by himself.

------
jjayl
It's difficult to see his replies because they are being downvoted on reddit,
but at the very least he seems to be confirming that Jake Frink isn't his real
name.
[http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/im6r4/there_is_no...](http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/im6r4/there_is_no_jake_frink_and_teevox_has_pulled_an/c24vqb7?context=3)

I can buy that he wanted to use an alias, but pretending to have done it all
on his own and having no affiliation with any company was a bad move.

I'd like to wait for more info before burning him on a stake though.

EDIT: "I was ashamed. It was the first time going through a startup
experience. After telling everyone I'd be going over to the Bay Area to setup
a startup, it was hard realizing it had failed. Those months after were very
tough and I didn't know what to do."

------
ihodes
There's no scam.

See mlinsey's comment: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2749838>

He posted a full explanation here:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiRzBnlbpUs>

------
shii
Seems a lot of the newer YC bunch are playing dirty to win. pg encourages[1]
this naughtiness, but I wonder if they sometimes go too far and what the
recourse is after brand damage like this and a major shunning from the very
communities they're targeting for. Startups like Airbnb which have engaged in
this sort of behavior are a little entrenched by now and have considerable
traction, but for littler guys like Teevox, this is pretty strong stuff I'd
imagine.

pg obviously isn't going to micromanage every startup he funds every season,
yet there's clearly a problem.

edit: Then again, it could be argued these sorts of things are necessary in
some cases to build traction. YC startups just need to learn to be better
trolls and build up better, more believable stories. Or actually be more
transparent in cases like this which don't involve divulging actual userbase
yet (which is crucial in the case of something like Reddit, which had to do
this in a sense. Who wants to use a dead/empty site?). The fake dude and all
was unnecessary. Another small company in the same space (in this same thread)
was more transparent about it all and this was appreciated by the targeted
market and gave them good karma and brand value in the minds of readers who'll
stumble across the name again and again.

edit again: also some commenters on Reddit have pointed out other shady
tactics including blocking jtv ads which are the income source for jtv and the
players, as well as soliciting donations under the guise of the heroic lone
coder giving back to the community...which turns out to be a violation of
Paypal TOS. Redditors have already reported them for this.

[1] <http://paulgraham.com/founders.html>

~~~
pseudonym
Honestly, I don't know if this was naughty in the way PG would define it.
Naughty is a kind of word with a gleam in it's eye and nothing to be ashamed
of. Based on the link from the "Naughty" section of your link[1], it seems
more like a liberal, anti-establishment-for-the-sake-of-establishment mindset,
and that's the sort of thing people like Banksy are lauded for.

This whole thing isn't naughty, just stupid in the extreme. There was no
additional market to grab with this lie, just the potential to hemorrhage
users once word of your initial shady tactics get out.

[1]
[http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/im6r4/there_is_no...](http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/im6r4/there_is_no_jake_frink_and_teevox_has_pulled_an/c24vqki?context=1)

------
gojomo
There's no Jake Frink?

Next thing you'll be telling me there is no Satoshi Nakamoto!

There'll always be an Alan Smithee, though, right?

~~~
robhu
The difference is that Satoshi is a known alias, whereas this is intentional
deception.

------
Tichy
I must admit from this reddit excerpt I can not infer what is going on, except
that somebody used a fake name on Reddit (the horror). Would be thankful for
explanations.

------
ammp
Jake Frink <\--> Fake Jrink :)

