
Creativity Changes as We Age - pseudolus
https://thewalrus.ca/older-wiser-better-aging-artists-are-at-their-peak/
======
DanielBMarkham
I'm 55 and I just finished writing a couple of books. I felt that I had done
so much and seen so many cool things that before I check out I owed the world
a "book report", whether anybody wanted to read it or not. So I wrote a
couple.

I don't think I could have done that even ten years ago. There's a perspective
you get, kind of a postmodernism, where you both understand the topics and the
common ways of addressing them, then are able to move past that. I guess
geniuses reach that point in their teens. It might take a bit longer for the
rest of us :)

There's a thing I see with younger tech authors where they don't want to admit
it, but they're for the most part chasing fame. That's a different kind of
creativity. I never was good at that and it hasn't gotten much better, either.
Perhaps you need a good foundation in order to "bloom" eventually?

~~~
Babiker
What are your books about and where can I check them out?

~~~
DanielBMarkham
\- I am not here pushing books. In fact, you won't find a link in my feed

\- Although these books are meant to help people who develop technology,
frankly I'm not interested in what the average developer has to say about
them. I wouldn't have liked some of my conclusions either had I read about
them 20 years ago

\- _I have deliberately priced my books to only sell to people interested and
dedicated in reading them_ This is the only reason I'm replying to you: I
wouldn't want somebody else to go find the books and then start a flame war
based on my price. If you can't afford it but are dedicated to learning, ping
me. We'll work something out. Otherwise yeah, it's crazy high compared to the
"Learn You Some Javascript in Five Hours" free YouTube-based courseware.

[https://leanpub.com/u/DanielBMarkham](https://leanpub.com/u/DanielBMarkham)

~~~
DataCrayon
Have you found that people are willing to make the investment at that price?

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incanus77
I have never felt as creative in my life as I do now in my early 40s.

I think the best way I can describe it is that it changed for me from my 20s,
where I was driven by what I wanted to do — the end result — and along the
way, would pick up the knowledge needed.

It’s similar now, but it’s more driven by what I can learn along the way and
how I can connect it to everything else. Experience has shown me that more
things are related than you think. And I feel like drawing these connections
has made me think across disciplines and to try to connect things in multiple
ways during the process, which has the side effect of creative solutions or
accidental findings along the way.

I have dozens of pages of notes and snippets and am constantly adding — things
I could make, topics I want to learn about. The amount can be overwhelming,
but it’s also liberating to write them down so that I can move on, and I feel
like even doing that sort of validates that I’m “being creative” and keeping
juices flowing.

Don’t get me wrong — these are not world-changing ideas. But I’ve found that
letting those flow has let little solutions or ideas here and there flow
easily in the midst of bigger problems.

It also helps to have internalized the idea that the value is in the
execution, not the idea. This is typified by a client who wants you to sign an
NDA to hear about what their idea even is. That’s a red flag that they think
the golden egg is the idea itself and not the months or years, as well as
discipline in saying no to a million little things, that will bring a good
version of that idea to life.

~~~
pier25
> _my 20s, where I was driven by what I wanted to do — the end result —_

I totally understand what you mean here.

In my early 20s I was into electronic music and I wanted to make music like my
idols. I was really more in love with the idea of doing it, or the end result,
than the actual act of doing it. Because of that, I didn't really know
anything about synths, synthesis, playing an instrument, etc. Which,
ironically, are the fundamental skills needed to be able to actually do the
damn thing.

Maybe if I had had someone to guide me it would have been different. Most of
my friends were in rock bands, and those who were into electronic music
production were just as lost as me. These days with Youtube it's a lot easier,
everyone sharing their tricks and techniques.

------
pseudolus
The reference to William Utermohlen and his ongoing deterioration after his
diagnosis with Alzheimer's is particularly poignant. He painted numerous self-
portraits up to the point where apparently he could barely recognize his own
face. His work is a vivid testament to the depredations that Alzheimer's
inflicts upon creativity. [0] A bullet we should all hope we can dodge until
an effective treatment is found.

[0] [https://www.boredpanda.com/alzheimers-disease-self-
portrait-...](https://www.boredpanda.com/alzheimers-disease-self-portrait-
paintings-william-utermohlen/)

~~~
moseandre
Creativity isn't painting a photographic self-portrait. Creativity is, like,
painting your own self over the course of your disease and so painting the
disease.

------
katsume3
My creativity has certainly changed and I'm middle-aged. I find myself
constantly trying to make everything as ergonomic as possible. Years of
sitting in an office chair has warped my spine, which now means I have to take
regular breaks every 15 minutes or so to straighten out my back. In my early
20s I could go for long stretches in a chair, happily coding away doing
'sprints'. Now I've turned everything into a marathon, stretching out my work
thinly over longer periods of time, paying attention to and mulling over
details instead of glossing over them (something my younger self would do all
day: gloss over everything and ignore nuance, yet still get things done)

~~~
agumonkey
could I rephrase it by instead of short term you can project long term and see
how tiny papercuts would add up in the future ?

------
travisgriggs
Possibly a bit off topic, but I read this submission last night (and gave it
the first upvote) because today is my 50th birthday. I am a software engineer
that has followed a somewhat unconventional path, but have enjoyed my career
passionately. I have told myself that turning 50 is no big deal because it's
just another arbitrary day, and 99+% odds I'm well past half dead already.
But, because others around me keeping making a big deal out of it, it's hard
to not get caught up in some transcendental introspection.

If you're well past 50 (approaching 60 or beyond), what would you tell your 50
year old self and peers?

~~~
WalterBright
> If you're well past 50 (approaching 60 or beyond), what would you tell your
> 50 year old self and peers?

Buy AMZN.

------
ChrisMarshallNY
I'm 58, and find I don't have the creative fluidity I had when I was younger
(I was an artist[0], and a musician[1] -with bad hair), but I find that I have
a _much_ more efficient and effective creative process.

Basically, my younger creativity was Jackson Pollock; splashing around a lot,
with few boundaries, and my current creativity is a bit more like a scrimshaw
artist; carefully making each line count, in a restricted and prescribed
manner and medium.

A lot of the stuff I'm working on now, is stuff that just plain wouldn't have
been possible -at all, when I was younger.

Basically, I have a great baseline for getting stuff done. I may not have the
wild forest of creativity I once had, but what I imagine does actually end up
existing, and at a pretty good quality level, and, sometimes, at a pretty
sizable scope.

[0]
[https://littlegreenviper.com/cruft/ArtistWithBadHair.jpg](https://littlegreenviper.com/cruft/ArtistWithBadHair.jpg)

[1]
[https://littlegreenviper.com/cruft/MusicianWithBadHair.jpg](https://littlegreenviper.com/cruft/MusicianWithBadHair.jpg)

------
patrec
Strange that the author does not mention Japan's greatest visual artist, who
by his own (and others') reckoning only became truly great in his old age.
Although there are many examples of great artists who do great, and novel,
work late in life, I cannot think of another major artist who peaked that
late.

 _From the age of 6 I had a mania for drawing the shapes of things. When I was
50 I had published a universe of designs. But all I have done before the the
age of 70 is not worth bothering with. At 75 I 'll have learned something of
the pattern of nature, of animals, of plants, of trees, birds, fish and
insects. When I am 80 you will see real progress. At 90 I shall have cut my
way deeply into the mystery of life itself. At 100, I shall be a marvelous
artist. At 110, everything I create; a dot, a line, will jump to life as never
before._

Unfortunately he only made it to 90.

~~~
mkl
Well, you didn't mention them either...

The quote is from Hokusai Katsushika, the artist behind the famous Great Wave
print:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hokusai](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hokusai)
[https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/314154-from-the-age-
of-6-i-...](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/314154-from-the-age-of-6-i-had-a-
mania-for)

------
chrisweekly
The linked article is beautifully-written and thought-provoking, excerpted
from "The Age of Creativity: Art, Memory, My Father, and Me" by Emily
Urquhart.

------
jedimind
On a related notion, I can only recommend "The Courage to Create" by Rollo
May. It's a fantastic work on the nature of creativity.

~~~
CharlesW
Thank you for the recommendation! I can also recommend "The War of Art" by
Steven Pressfield.

[https://www.amazon.com/War-Art-Steven-Pressfield-
ebook/dp/B0...](https://www.amazon.com/War-Art-Steven-Pressfield-
ebook/dp/B007A4SDCG/)

------
Broken_Hippo
Of course creativity changes: The older one gets, the more one learns about a
variety of topics and the more life experience one has. This is precisely the
reason I tell folks to make sure to learn about different things, meet
different sorts of people, and step out of one's comfort zone from time to
time. I think this is why drugs - especially hallucinogens - are popular among
some artists (and scientists that need some creativity). Drugs give
experiences of different ways of thinking.

------
feoren
Am I the only one who reads some homoerotic fan-fiction about Michaelangelo
passed off as insight, and an unskeptical recounting of a medium "revealing"
something about a late artist passed off as fact, and decides that this writer
clearly has absolutely nothing useful to say? Who would take such drivel
seriously?

~~~
chrisweekly
Please consider that the OP represents an artist's personal, semi-poetic
reflections. Whence the vitriol?

~~~
feoren
Personal, semi-poetic reflections based on wild over-speculation and an
erroneous understanding of the world is fine for a diary, but this is on
Hacker News with the title "Creativity Changes as We Age", alongside actual
scientific studies and sound, fact-based reasoning. This person knows nothing
about the science behind creativity, or really anything about science at all.

~~~
chrisweekly
Context matters; the linked article was excerpted from a memoir, and published
under "Arts and Culture". The author made no claims to scientific rigor.

------
disown
Sometimes HN seems like just a bunch of old people lying to themselves about
how great getting old is.

"Ask HN: What is it like to be old? What advice would you give to younger
people?"

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24527978](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24527978)

You know that a young person didn't post that. If it was a young person, it's
a rather sad one.

Also, I'm beginning to think that social media is getting worse or more toxic,
not because of ads/privacy/etc, but because the demographics is getting older.
Not only that, I bet the demands for more censorship online correlates to the
aging demographics online.

------
MichaelZuo
Well it would be astonishing if creativity didn’t change with age, considering
that the brain can dramatically ‘rewire’ itself over time.

------
ducttapecrown
The author is has a famous painter as a parent, has studied art history, and
this article is an excerpt from their book on creativity of artists.

------
lostgame
Great article, but in no way surprising. Look at a band like the Beatles; and
watch their creative progression over time.

~~~
notdang
I see better technique and less creativity.

~~~
lostgame
Whoa. I see both; extremely clearly. Comparing an album like 'A Hard Day's
Night' to 'Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band' _surely_ demonstrates a
clear increase in not only technique and creativity, but also originality?

------
jl2718
This made me think about what I want to be doing on my deathbed versus what
I’m doing now.

------
mellosouls
It's a very optimistic view, and may be true in some limited domains and
individuals but generally speaking _groundbreaking_ creativity (as opposed to
the natural creativity within us all which declines gradually but doesn't
necessarily completely disappear as we age) is a property of the young, though
it may vary from field to field.

e.g. pop music, maths, poetry, physics, etc; you're done by 30.
Writers/composers maybe another 10 years or so.

I say that not to be negative, but to urge any young readers who feel they
have a talent to not be complacent and assume they will be an exception, or
that its related to family/financial/work commitments when you see the decline
in your heroes and you will just avoid all that.

Use it before you lose it!

~~~
lnsru
Here you go: [https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/lists/nobel-laureates-
by-a...](https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/lists/nobel-laureates-by-age/)

~~~
mellosouls
Is that supposed to back or counter my claim?

I haven't dug in, just noticed it's age at the time of award, not time of
achievement.

Eg Einstein early 20s for most of his stuff, early 30s for GR. Awarded in his
40s.

~~~
lnsru
As you can see, people get award in rather old age. Not many geniuses in their
thirties, that made great achievement in their twenties.

