

Ask YC: Software developers at Apple? - pchristensen

Apple gets so much great attention for its hardware, design, vision, taste, etc, but I was wondering what it's like there for software developers.  They write OSX, embedded (iPod, etc), applications, utilities, etc that get lots of acclaim, but you never really hear about them.  Does anyone know Apple hackers, what it's like, if it's a sought-after job (I'm sick of hearing about how everyone wants to work at Google and Facebook) or just an option, etc.
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simonseto
It's a high stress, demanding job. Great work is usually rewarded, but Apple
does have its politics. Talented engineers I know are well rewarded and
recognized internally, but other engineers have been shafted due to politics
or the bozo-ness of their particular department or team.

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suboptimal
Wanna hear more! :)

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simonseto
That gossip is best left unsaid, but my advice if you are looking to work at
Apple - choose the team you join carefully. Apple's most secretive teams are
also the most talented and brilliant folks I've ever met. But they work hard
to be friends of Steve.

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oaklybonn
This is what Apple looks for in software engineers: Smart, gets things done.
(I think Joel Splotskey said it first.)

99% of the software written at Apple is in C or some variant thereof. If your
C code isn't up to snuff (EDIT: fixed lousy contraction. English skills aren't
as important!), you might be able to get a job working in the build farms, but
even those people are good coders doing shit work until they can move up.

All that being said, we have a really hard time finding people that can code
their way out of a paper bag in C - so much so that we'll even take people
without direct Mac OS X experience if they're talented coders. (I'd still
prefer to see true macheads, though.)

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spolsky
Joel who?

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oaklybonn
I admire you, even if I can't spell your name.

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pistoriusp
<http://www.folklore.org/> has stories about Apple from their early days, I
couldn't stop reading it, and you learn a lot about the hackers from back
then.

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ovi256
Every time I feel burned, I read a bit of folklore.org about how the masters
of yore did their stuff, and get to work again! Oh and also "The Djinn's Wife"
by Ian McDonald: <http://www.asimovs.com/_issue_0704/thedjinnswife.shtml>

The future is here and screams in our face. Do you dare heed its call?

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tlrobinson
Apple is a large company, so there's a large range of software development
jobs, some more "glamorous" than others.

One interesting thing to note is that the average age of Apple devs is higher
than those at say Google or Facebook. Of course that's probably mostly a
product of Apple being a much older company. Certainly that must affect the
company culture.

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pchristensen
I would have thought it was the systems/hardware focus. The kids nowadays just
assume the hardware is magic and try to ignore it as much as possible while
writing their billion dollar websites.

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alaskamiller
They work 12 hour days. Lots of clashing personalities, particularly with
lifers.

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utx00
.. and one needs the aggravation because?

with all the easy pickings (that pay well) out there.

i say take advantage that 80% of people don't know anything, and take it easy.
8 hr works days, and i'm at the lake.

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alaskamiller
People work at Apple to change the world. Seriously.

Steve Jobs is a genius at imbuing the concept of revolution into computing.

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utx00
i guess ... but that sounds silly to me. i guess i shouldn't lurk here
anymore.

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wanorris
I think the point is that Steve Jobs does a good job of making Apple seem like
Santa's Workshop or something, which leads to a lot of people who drink the
Kool-Aid wanting to come on board.

You're certainly allowed to think that Apple is simply a company that stuffs
commodity hardware into particularly shiny boxes. Even if that's what you
think, it's still an interesting case study in how to attract talent without
paying a premium.

