
The 'Manhattan of the Desert': Shibam, Yemen's Ancient Skyscraper City (2015) - Mz
https://www.archdaily.com/771154/the-manhattan-of-the-desert-shibam-yemens-ancient-skyscraper-city
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sologoub
This claim: “Credited as the home of the first highrise apartment buildings,
Shibam has become a symbol for the rise and resilience of middle eastern
culture in the desolation of the surrounding desert.” appears to be false as
Roman Insula reportedly reached over 9 stories high and predate these
buildings:
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insula_(building)#](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insula_\(building\)#)

~~~
abuabdullah
Over 9 stories? Your source says: "The insulae could be up to six or seven
stories high, and despite height restrictions in the Imperial era, a few
reached eight or nine stories"

~~~
mmjaa
Insulae aren't necessarily sky-scrapers, though, right? They kind of build up
on a larger composite base, and are a bit more massive - and lower in general
- whereas the Shibam seem to have a smaller base, but taller reach, as a
whole.

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gwern
Reminds me of
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Gimignano](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Gimignano)
or the other Italian city-states like Florence. Same apparent dynamics, too:
lots of insular clans creating little fortresses for their extended families
while competing economically & socially inside the density of the city, always
teetering on the edge of civil war.

~~~
vtange
If you like the idea of clusters of building complexes you'd also find
interest in
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowloon_Walled_City](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowloon_Walled_City)

~~~
gwern
Yeah, Kowloon is cool but driven by different dynamics. Closer to Arcosanti or
Tokyo than Shibam.

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wdewind
Would you mind expanding on this comment? I want to understand what you mean
:)

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jacquesm
When Gwern expands on a comment expect a book length article with everything
remotely relevant cited and leaving nothing but a wasteland for future
researchers.

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nashashmi
I had to look up Gwern:

I found this:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5660220](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5660220)

fascinating!

~~~
jacquesm
[http://www.gwern.net/](http://www.gwern.net/)

Hope you have a couple of spare days. Make that weeks.

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bdamm
It would be interesting to learn how the builders decided on these specific
structures. I note a few attributes: * Banked foundations. * Small windows at
the bottom, large windows at the top. * Tall doors at the bottom.

Specifically, how did they gauge the thickness of the walls and the structural
properties of the mud? Was the planning based on a published code that took
into account the expected building materials? Did they have occupancy limits?

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pchristensen
The city is 1700 years old - I'm sure they had time to figure this stuff out.

~~~
bdamm
Yes, of course. So where's the documentation and does anyone readily know the
answers?

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tormeh
I'd guess it's mostly oral, master->apprentice stuff.

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cel1ne
Too bad the Yemen, home to the oldest cities in the world, is being completely
destroyed in the civil war and seeing millions of cholera infections by now.

[http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/08/23/world/middleea...](http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/08/23/world/middleeast/yemen-
cholera-humanitarian-crisis.html)

~~~
singularity2001
Civil War? I thought they are currently bombarded by Saudi and American
rockets?

~~~
zamber
Pretty much on point.

Apparently US is involved to fix relations with Saudis after the nuclear deal
with Iran.

> The United States is selling the Saudi monarchy missiles and warplanes,
> assisting in the coalition’s targeting selection for aerial bombings and
> actively providing midair refueling for Saudi and United Arab Emirates jets
> that conduct indiscriminate airstrikes — the leading cause of civilian
> casualties. Meanwhile, the Saudi coalition is starving millions of Yemenis
> as a grotesque tactic of war.

via [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/10/opinion/yemen-war-
unconst...](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/10/opinion/yemen-war-
unconstitutional.html)

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excitom
Growing up in the NYC area I saw many 4 to 6 story apartments, built mostly
before elevators became common and practical. The upper floors were considered
undesirable due to all the stairs.

Eight stories seems like quite a lot.

~~~
arethuza
Edinburgh had residential buildings up to 14 or 15 stories in the 17th century
- land inside the city wall was very limited and building outside the wall was
unpopular due to the threat from England.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Edinburgh#Union_of_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Edinburgh#Union_of_the_Crowns_to_Parliamentary_Union_.2817th_century.29)

~~~
pjc50
Although due to the geology of the place you can "cheat" this by building up a
hill, it's not quite the same as building a freestanding 15 storey building.
There are several places I know round the Bridges that have street level
entrances four floors apart.

~~~
arethuza
That's true - and I believe there was a lot of tunneling _down_ into the
relatively soft rock of the tail of the Old Town "crag and tail".

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azeotropic
Roman insulae were taller centuries earlier. I can't imagine why anyone would
credit Shibam with the earliest high rise apartment buildings.

~~~
rsynnott
I don’t think the article is. However, it’s still there (there’s only one
insula left), and it’s more uniformly made up of tall buildings than anywhere
in Rome likely was.

~~~
azeotropic
From this fine article: "Credited as the home of the first highrise apartment
buildings, Shibam has become a symbol for the rise and resilience of middle
eastern culture in the desolation of the surrounding desert."

There were 46,600 insulae in Rome at the time Shibam was built, and only 1790
private homes.

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Freestyler_3
Would be nice to see which of the buildings were from 1700 years ago and which
are from 500 years ago.

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stigi
I had the chance to visit Shibam in 2005. AMA

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Whiteskin_Kanye
How hard is it to visit?

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justinzollars
You don't want to go there.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemeni_Civil_War_(2015%E2%80%9...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemeni_Civil_War_\(2015%E2%80%93present\))

[http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/11/23/in-yemen-a-saudi-war-
fou...](http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/11/23/in-yemen-a-saudi-war-fought-with-
u-s-help/)

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davidw
* Doesn't respect parking minimums

* Doesn't respect sebacks

* Inadequate green space

* Floor-area ratio way beyond acceptable.

Complete planning failure!

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tonmoy
What does “seback” mean? I couldn’t find anything in 30 seconds of googling

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Mz
Most likely a typo for setback:

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setback](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setback)

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agumonkey
Quite surrealist

