
What’s the best feedback you got when you DIDN’T get the job? - ohjeez
Every one of us has been there: You applied for a job that you really wanted. You thought you did well in the interview, answering questions confidently and creating a rapport with the interviewer. Maybe you even got to the third or fourth interview. But eventually, you get that oh-so-polite email: “While your background is impressive… blah blah blah… not a good fit for the organization.”<p>It’s bad enough that you didn’t get the job. But you’re left wondering, “What did I do wrong?”<p>Every so often, fate is kind, and you get useful feedback. If you are lucky, someone is direct enough to say, “We decided we needed someone with more manufacturing experience,” or “When push came to shove, we concluded that the telecommuting was a deal breaker,” or, “The new CMO came in and decided to bring in the team from her old company.” In the best of circumstances, the knowledge gives you a way to improve.<p>So I’m writing an article (for a publication you know) collecting the best feedback that people received, as well as providing advice for the uncomfortable manager who has to say, “You’re not the one.” I don’t need to attribute anyone by name, though a context helps (“John applied for a programming job” is credible enough). But if you’d like to be on the record, that’s good too.<p>•	As a job applicant who didn’t get the gig, what feedback or advice was useful or reassuring? Why?<p>•	As a hiring manager, what have you found most effective for saying why the applicant didn’t get the job? Why do you feel that worked? How did you handle it when the truth is uncomfortable (“You offended someone by arguing with his expertise”)?<p>For gosh sakes, tell me stories. Maybe we can save someone else from experiencing that frustrating sense of mystery and self-flagellation.
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baxter001
As an applicant I've not had any on a technical basis.

A few years ago:

"Bit too much of a solo developer, which can be great but not what we're
looking for."

Which is fair given that the context was they were needing to rapidly build a
new core team for their first foray into microservices.

I was perfectly happy with the response, because I'd say it's a fair personal
assessment, clearly at odds with how they planned to build the team, and my
role at the time was very much a "Me and the Admin" type scenario.

When I've declined a role it has usually been due to a faint whiff of
"Desperate eyed non-technical founder with a great idea" which I've usually
characterised to them as being "Too accustomed to security of a more
traditional company".

Or in once instance I advised the hiring manager that it didn't seem they
needed more devs at all, that the two they had seemed by his description to be
drowning in BAU and support tasks, that him training or hiring administrators
would probably be a better use of his budget and more likely to retain the
domain expertise already baked into his existing devs, before more of them
left...Which was accurate even if he hadn't just also told me that he'd
increased internal adoption of their CRM system by making it a disciplinary
matter if usage was low.

~~~
flukus
> Which is fair given that the context was they were needing to rapidly build
> a new core team for their first foray into microservices.

Did they want you to lead the team or be on the team? For the former it would
make sense, but not for the later.

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idoh
An interesting question. I think that the bar is so low for feedback that any
type of feedback is pretty welcome. For my most recent job search most of the
time the company never bothered to tell me that I was declined, they just left
it open. Something like: "Thanks for coming in today. The team had really
positive feedback and we'd like to invite you back for another round. [so and
so] will email you in the next couple days..." followed by weeks / months of
radio silence despite followup.

The best feedback I got (through a side channel) was that the team was in a
deadlock between me and another candidate, so it came down to a coin toss and
I lost. I felt reassured, because at least the ordeal was over.

Another time I was declined because they only higher product managers with CS
degrees and I do not have one. In that case I felt annoyed because this info
was readily apparent on my resume, and I do have tech skills but they never
brought up the issue in the interview.

~~~
cableshaft
> coin toss...

So the whole 'toss half of the resumes in the garbage because we don't want
someone who's unlucky' story basically happened to you? Wow. I guess I prefer
that to 'we just thought this other guy was better than you'.

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xs83
One (Large) company in the UK years ago - "Our psychometric tests indicate
that you are possibly a smoker and we are a no smoking organisation"

Have never even held a cigarette in my life let alone smoked one

Tests included questions like "Johnny had a joint on Friday after work, is he
OK to work on Monday?"

"Do you think smokers work to equal levels as their non-smoking employees"

and so on

Pretty sure this was illegal but I was young and had no idea so meh

~~~
eon1
Wow, that's.. disgusting. And also damaging to their own hiring practices, by
the sound of it.

~~~
CmdrSprinkles
Possibly illegal, but the mention of being younger makes me think this is less
for a "real" tech job and more for a "normal" job or a code monkey position
where you really just need semi-competent people who can fill seats and do a
modicum of work.

When I was younger I applied for a lot of jobs like that (supermarket,
bookstore, data entry) and dealt with automated quizzes like that. None were
quite that blatant, but even in my late teens I understood a lot of the
questions were about risk assessment.

So it stands to reason that a huge concern with this was keeping insurance
premiums down.

~~~
voycey
They were pretty much all code monkey jobs, it would have been my third proper
coding job and they were a software house so it was your average Java code
shop.

Either way it is still a "Real" tech job, just for an asshole company

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c0110
The best feedback I received was from a hiring manager who said I was not
senior enough for the position (they only hire senior engineers at that
company). After my onsite interviews, we had a series of phone calls that
pushed me out of my comfort zone, onto a path to discover my career.

1\. He said he and his team were sitting on the fence about whether to take me
on or not. The interviews went well, but he couldn't make a decision yet, so
we agreed to talk in the morning.

2\. He called the next morning and told me I didn't get the position. He gave
his reasons (further down) and told me to keep in touch. I asked if I could
call him again to ask some questions and he said that was fine.

3\. Played phone tag a little, but he eventually called back and took the time
to answer my questions about growing as an engineer.

This hiring manager was looking for senior engineers. I had no idea where I
stood in my career, having been at the same company for most of my career (8
years), but I decided to give the interview a try. Hiring manager said I was
not senior enough (a fair assessment) for the position. I asked him what it
would take for me to be considered "senior enough" and he gave me some
pointers on how to gain depth and breadth, as well as developing soft skills.

That 3rd phone call was really, really valuable. I started reading books (both
technical and non technical) and really pushing myself to code more. But more
importantly, I've pushed myself to seek help and guidance from people who are
way more experienced. I suppose when you get specific directions, you get just
a little bit closer to your destination... even if it's a moving target. :)

It's pretty rare to get this kind of feedback and I can definitely see why
recruiters and hiring managers don't give this level of detail. They're really
not obligated, and it can get them in trouble.

(edit: line breaks)

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Afton
Fresh out of my first year of computer science, I had fumbled my through some
graph traversal algorithms. The guy (who I still remember!), said "Look, you
seem like a smart guy, but it doesn't seem like you've done very much
programming". I.e. I could figure out the problem, I just couldn't implement
it very quickly or well.

He was right (and obviously. Like I said, one year of university). I took it
to heart, and practiced programming. Nailed my next interviews. :)

I've never had any other constructive feedback from an interview, and at more
than one company, I've been given specific instructions not to provide it (by
the recruiting team).

~~~
ohjeez
> ...at more than one company, I've been given specific instructions not to
> provide it (by the recruiting team).

What were you told?

That's the other side of this issue, of course. Because there are some things
it would be hard to say out of politeness ("You pissed off the boss" or
"People thought you were insufferable") or fear of legal repercussion ("We
would never say this out loud, but one of the people on the team was sure that
a woman would mess up the team dynamics").

So what did the recruiting team tell you [not] to say?

~~~
Afton
Classic "there's no upside". By providing feedback, you _only_ provide
leverage for a future lawsuit. Not only that, but if you give feedback some of
the time, the mere existence of lack of existence of the feedback becomes a
piece of evidence. Since only very rarely will the feedback turn into a future
hire for the current company, the risk/reward ration is pretty clear.

Have a policy of 'no feedback' means that it is much harder for an applicant
to gather evidence for a lawsuit. Sure can be frustrating sometimes though.

IANAL, etc.

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JSeymourATL
> But you’re left wondering, “What did I do wrong?”

Understand that you may not have done anything wrong at all.

Even if the hiring executive is a seasoned pro in evaluating and assessing
prospective talent-- the interview process can be very subjective. He's trying
to scorecard a number of strong competitors for the role. All of the finalists
could likely do the job successfully. It can make the final hiring decision a
very tough call.

As a candidate -- an area to probe just before finishing the interview, ask
the hiring executive if they have any concerns or reservations about your
skills/experience as it relates to their decision criteria. This is your
chance to uncover and address any possible objections. Here's a Forbes take on
this >
[http://www.forbes.com/sites/crossingborders/2012/04/25/the-r...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/crossingborders/2012/04/25/the-
riskiest-question-you-could-ever-ask-in-a-job-interview-but-it-always-worked-
for-me/#725e44ce50a1)

------
itamarst
1\. Looking for a non-full-time job I got told "but what if we need you on
Wednesdays?", i.e. the day I was going to be taking care of my kid instead of
working. Eventually found another part time job elsewhere
([https://codewithoutrules.com/saneworkweek/](https://codewithoutrules.com/saneworkweek/)
if you want some tips on how you can do that sort of thing).

Was reassuring insofar as it wasn't "you're not good enough".

2\. Interviewed at startup, it goes well, then silence for weeks. I ping them,
and eventually they said they're having some internal problems and if I have
another offer I should probably take it. They apparently had "internal
problems" for years, as in one review from 6 years later where it was still
"it's a startup, don't know if I'll have job next week".

The job I did end up taking worked out very well.

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kafkaesq
Very early in my career: "We're a hard-core CS shop, and don't want to break
that mold."

Fair enough.

Somewhat later, after blabbing too much about math: "We think this job would
be too boring for you."

Memo to self: _don 't blab about math, unless they ask._

In sum virtually any feedback is great, as long as it's honest, and doesn't
beat around the bush.

~~~
bbcbasic
Please do blab about math. If you can't be yourself and show off your
strengths then the job isn't for you IMO.

~~~
kafkaesq
Ideally, yes. Sometimes, though, you just need to pay the rent. That's the
sucky part.

------
jrnichols
I had a company finally reply to me a few weeks after an interview and say "We
were impressed with your resume and the interviews went well, but
unfortunately due to budget issues, we are unable to fill this job requisition
at this time."

I appreciated their honesty and it's better than the lawyer safe generic
email.

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jackess
Learn how to say "I don't know."

~~~
bbcbasic
Best advice in this thread.

~~~
jackess
Yeah, it hit me pretty hard. The next interview I had, I was able to say "I
don't know", and I got the job handily.

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jgamman
not me but someone i know got down to the last two and the company would have
been happy with either - they went with the other top candidate. turns out
when they are in that position, they choose the least represented
demographic/gender/background to include in their team. sounds reasonable, not
sure if it's true but you can't really fault the intent.

~~~
FT_intern
the intent being to discriminate based on a protected class. Yes it can be
faulted.

------
DrNuke
Always a cultural fit, too much an INTJ to get along with people and social
dynamics in an office environment. Was suffering a bit when younger, now in
middle age I just don't care. Therefore, freelancing as a r&d / preliminary
design specialist and trying to strike gold with my own projects, often
sending targeted e-mails to win contracts where I can.

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atmosx
This is an interesting thread.

However, as with all _soft skills_ all of the _feedback_ posted here is
subjective to external circumstances. The often limited interpretation and
perception of the interviewer goes along way into the hiring process.

So, from my small experience, there are _many things_ that must come into play
in order to get hired. The good thing is that in our industry hiring is going
strong compared to other industries which are vanishing.

I think we can agree that valuable feedback comes mostly from people with whom
we work daily and managers.

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ryanmccullagh
You move your mouse too much. Moving your mouse and windows too much indicates
that you're not focused on the task at hand. Try not to jump from screen to
screen when explaining things. Even if you're trying to explain various
connected components. I received this as feedback from a job I had over the
summer.

~~~
bbcbasic
Lesson learned. Go easy on the mouse. In fact if you don't touch the mouse or
keyboard all day you'll be a rock star.

~~~
cableshaft
I mean, a lot of senior people here don't touch the mouse or keyboard all day,
they're just constantly in meetings, so I think there's some truth to that.

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allfou
Your application goes like this:

You > recruiters > team

Team > HR > You

The only way to get feedback is to skip the middle layers.

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bbcbasic
Was told I was holding things back in a 2001 interview.

I knew what they were referring to. A problem I solved with a for loop, they
then asked me how else I would do it. I couldn't think of another way, but
after giving me a few tries they unleashed their genius: "What if you copy
paste the loop innards 10 times".

And because I didn't mention that as a solution I guess I was holding back.

Applied 10 years later just to see if they'd improved. They told me that as I
applied before and was rejected they could only pay me a graduate salary which
was unchanged in 10 years to boot!

~~~
spacemanmatt
Bullet dodged.

