
The time I was turned away from China - panarky
https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/26/the-time-i-was-turned-away-from-china/
======
desdiv
>The reason, as it was explained to me, was that in 2015 I had broken Chinese
law when I failed to present myself to authorities in Beijing when I had
visited and stayed at an Airbnb residence on two different trips. Unbeknownst
to me at the time — and something that was not communicated by Airbnb —
foreigners are required to register at a local police station, but in most
cases the hotels where they stay handle this.

This rule is clearly explained on the back of the immigration declaration form
which every visitor must personally fill out[0]. It is, in fact, item number
one.

Yes, China is a totalitarian shithole. But then again some democratic
countries like Japan have similar "register at local police station" rules
too, so I'm very surprised that someone who spent a decade in Asia would be
unaware of it.

[0]
[http://sydney.chineseconsulate.org/eng/gdtp/P020071009492059...](http://sydney.chineseconsulate.org/eng/gdtp/P020071009492059383911.jpg)

~~~
griffinheart
I live in Japan for quite some time (multiple years) and never had to, or
heard about, having to "register at local police station".

~~~
titanix2
It’s not at the police station but you still have to register at the ward
office when you’re moving to a new city.

Also as a "fun" fact, residence cards features the logo of the ministry of
justice. Just like if all foreigners were criminal with such a high
probability that this minister handle the matter from the beginning.

~~~
griffinheart
Sure, also because you're going to pay taxes into that ku (city), and they
deal with pension and health insurance, even if you're not a foreigner you're
going to have to register.

Your residence card gets updated every time you change your address and you do
have to go to the ward office for them to update it, but that's hardly
"register at the police station".

Edit:

Most if not all the things we have to do, as foreigners, Japanese also have to
do it.

The big difference is we're required to have an updated/valid residence card
(ID), while Japanese don't need to carry ID.

I'm from Europe, and in my country everyone has an ID and is "required" to
have it so I don't actually see the big deal, maybe I'm just uninformed.

~~~
rahimnathwani
"Most if not all the things we have to do, as foreigners, Japanese also have
to do it."

Chinese also have to register at the local police station when they move. It's
not just for foreigners.

~~~
rangibaby
in Japan you do not have to register if you are just visiting somewhere

~~~
rahimnathwani
Right, but my point wasn't that the requirements are the same. I was pointing
out that the parent statement "Most if not all the things we have to do, as
foreigners, Japanese also have to do it." applies to China, too.

The 'registration at local police station' was just an example of one such
policy.

------
beilabs
Nothing to do with increased security for the 19th Congress.

Nothing to do with being a journalist.

Everything to do with not presenting yourself at the Chinese police station.

Source: Lived in China for years, was forced to write an apology to China for
not presenting myself after moving to a new city 2 months later (had a work
visa); my communist party member landlord smoothed things over with local
police. Obviously Jon didn't have enough guanxi.

~~~
justinmoh
Congratulations, you know “guanxi”. Lmao

------
Afforess
Traveler does not follow the rules, abuses a Transit visa to cover non-
transity-things, and is surprised when he is punished. He might not have been
familiar with the exact rules governing travel, but it is fairly clear from
his account that he was _abusing_ the system, and aware of it.

> _I had been waiting in line to take advantage of the city’s 144-hour
> ‘transit’ visa which allows travelers with an onward flight to stay in
> Shanghai without needing to secure a visa before they travel._

Yes, AirBnB should inform traveler's of local rules, like registering with a
police station. But ignorance of the law, combined with repeated abuses
shouldn't be overlooked.

> _Since 2015, I have used the transit visa system on six occasions_

Nothing to see here, folks. Follow the rules, don't abuse them.

~~~
ioro
While it's generally not a good idea to try the visa on arrival option when
you can't get a normal visa, the transit visa isn't just for transit as such.

"To accelerate the strategy of “Development Driven by Innovation”, sanctioned
by the State Council, as of January 30, various ports of entry in Shanghai
[...] are to implement a 144-hour visa-exemption transit policy [...] First
and foremost, the length of time for visa-exemption stay is extended
considerably. With the previous 72 hours doubled, foreign passengers would
have ample time to conduct short-term activities such as businesses,
sightseeing, visits and exhibitions while in Shanghai."

[http://www.sh-
immigration.gov.cn/listPageEn.aspx?lx=40&id=44...](http://www.sh-
immigration.gov.cn/listPageEn.aspx?lx=40&id=4421)

------
redcomplier
I'm not sure on the merit of if this person should or should not be allowed
into China but this happens to people everyday at US boarder control
(especially from non-European countries) who are not even in media but doctors
and lawyers. And America proclaims to be much more open than China so this
isn't as strange as it seems.

Something that made me think was how the author waffles between being a
"journalist" and being a "blogger". Bloggers do this all the time and it's
troubling. In cases where important part of a story they wrote turns out to be
wrong, or invades someone privacy, they just shrug their shoulders and say
"Well, im a blogger, sorry!". When they are not taken seriously, the same
people run to the top of the hill to say "But but but we're doing _serious_
work here!" I won't say what Thiel did was right, i'm justing saying I
understand.

------
diego_moita
I understand that the author is British and not American, but I couldn't help
avoid a little bit of schadenfreude, sorry.

As a Latino, every time I'd have to go in transit through US I'd face similar
treatment by American customs. I hope this has improved but it's been more
than 8 years I've been able to avoid any American airport.

So, yep it sucks. But never mind, there are plenty of interesting countries in
the world; China and the U.S. are not the only ones.

~~~
JoelTheSuperior
Honestly I'd say the UK border is just as bad if not worse than that of the
United States

~~~
toomuchtodo
As a US citizen, I flew to the UK to spend about a week with a friend from
work while he showed me around central England. I had to show proof of my
return flight to the states and my colleagues home address, phone number, etc.

------
eddz
The reporter comes off as a bit paranoid and slightly egotistical. Read up on
the rules and follow them closely or risk facing consequences. If you aren't
100% sure, ask.

Personally, I was held overnight in a cell in KIX (Osaka International
Airport) because after 6 hours of back and forth interviews, I couldn't
provide a convincing enough reason for working for a Japanese company (my own
company) without the correct visa. This was entirely due to miscommunication
but something that would have been obvious – and easily remedied – had I
consulted the right people. Fortunately, I was granted conditional entry the
following morning. Though despite the inconvenience, the officers and warden
were extremely pleasant and very accommodating.

~~~
abc-xyz
That's a terrible point of view. Who is he supposed to ask these questions
that would be absolutely ridiculous to ask in any developed country? Heck, I
can't think of any country in the world where staying at AirBNB would be an
issue, and why shouldn't he be paranoid when they so easily could pull up info
about when/where he stayed there.. Does the airport security also have a list
of Chinese girls the visiting foreigners have engaged sexual relations with?
How long until they start rejecting foreigners when they have slept with >50
Chinese girls?

~~~
eddz
I'm sorry, but I fail to see your point. This does not have anything to do
with his sexual relationships so I am unsure of why you are making that
analogy. It is _completely usual_ to have to declare your place of residence
to an immigration officer upon entry to a foreign country, wherever you are
visiting. If you are suspected of wrongdoing, expect calls to be made and
questions to be asked.

It is entirely the traveler's responsibility to understand the requirements
for stay and local laws of a foreign country. Ignorance can only get you so
far.

The immigration officer – who has absolute power over entry – neither asked
anything unreasonable of him nor made any false accusations. This is despite
the reporter technically having broken the law. He got off lightly, since the
fine for not registering within 24 hours after arrival can be up to $300.

~~~
ioro
It's usual to declare where you are staying, it isn't usual to have to
register with the local authorities in every place you do. I do accept it,
countries have different rules and cultures. Foreigners do end up breaking
such local rules when going abroad, including the Chinese. But doing so
shouldn't result in being banished from the country. Imagine driving into
Austria without a toll sticker and no longer being able to get a Schengen
visa. Of course we don't know the full story. Hopefully this is more about the
authors situation than something that will become commonplace.

~~~
eddz
It may be annoying or inconvenient, but China is not the only country a
requirement to register with the local authorities. The fact that it applies
to all types of visas may throw some travelers off. Still, it is their
responsibility to make sure (preferably before arrival) that the requirements
for entry are met.

When you break the rules (intentionally or not), you're taking a risk. Some
people get off unnoticed whereas others learn the hard way. Ask people
familiar with the country and its laws before arrival and plan your trip
properly.

------
hartator
I feel it’s kind of shady in the first place to use a transit visa to cover
tech events.

Do this in the US, it’ll be worst.

~~~
Taniwha
The US is just weird, only country i know of that doesn't allow transit.
Anywhere else you get off your plane, pass thru security and get back on your
outgoing flight.

The US seems too cheap to build outgoing immigration booths, and therefore
doesn't have real international departure terminals like anywhere else on the
planet.

I means you can't transit the US without getting a visa

~~~
selectodude
Due to its geography, I can't think of any other country in the world where it
would make sense to fly via the US. Mexico and Canada are the only two that
would happen, and both have their own large international gateways.

~~~
cperciva
The USA is a very common transit country for Europe-South America and Asia-
South America. It's not uncommon for travel between Europe and New Zealand or
the East coast of Australia either.

~~~
Taniwha
I travel from NZ, these days I choose to go through HKG (and visit the
Shenzhen markets, in China) to Europe.

My normal experience of entering China is always fast and courteous, entering
the US is frankly scary every time, lots of questions about what you're going
to do - I show the same business APEC card at both borders (unlike China it's
not a visa for the US border, the US is not a full member of APEC, but it does
get me in the crew line, and identifies me as a frequent business traveller)

~~~
cperciva
You're not the only person I've heard say that they avoid the TPAC route
because they want to avoid the USA. But I've heard people complain that as
much as they'd prefer to avoid the USA the flight schedules are far more
convenient.

Have you tried the ANZ AKL-YVR connecting to ACA YVR-Europe flights? Canada is
far happier about transiting passengers than the USA is. (And if you've tried
it and didn't like it, I'm curious why.)

~~~
Taniwha
I don't avoid the US if I need to go there, after all I lived there for 20
years, half my adult life, it's home as much as NZ (and I'm currently near the
end of a NZ->US->HK->CN->HK->CN->HK->NZ trip) - getting in is the problem, the
process is as I said elsewhere a bit scary, once you are there it's generally
a nice place to be

I haven't tried Vancouver, maybe next time - I do prefer long flights that are
overnight so to Europe that means with a daytime (or two) somewhere in the
middle

~~~
cperciva
AKL-YVR-LHR is an overnight (13 hours, 8PM-noon, same day) TPAC followed by an
overnight (9.5 hours, 6PM-11:30AM, next day) TATL. So it certainly fits your
preference for having long overnight flights.

------
cooper12
I think a majority of the commenters are missing the point of the article. We
get it, you're all smart and know the rules, this guy didn't. That's his
point. Instead of having the rules explained to him, he was treated horribly
and denied any recourse. That's what its like facing a soulless bureaucracy.
I've gone through my own share of that and it's really frustrating getting
shuttled back and forth with each person passing the buck and no one to really
turn to in order to resolve everything. Should he not have been skirting
rules? No shit. Should we completely blame him for being ignorant? Maybe the
immigration department is also at fault for not handing out handy infographics
written in multiple languages to reduce friction and incidents like these.
Notice for example that the author actually had tried to apply for a business
visa but hit a brick wall. It's certainly not conducive to foreign journalism
on Chinese topics like the burgeoning tech industry, that's for sure.

------
arnvald
I use the Shanghai visa-free transit occasionally and after going through the
police station registration once, I decided to stay in hotels on my next
trips.

The registration process took a long time:

\- first I had to wait around an hour in a queue, because out of 5 available
policemen only one was registering visitors

\- the police officer didn't speak any English, and there were 2 foreigners
who didn't speak Chinese in front of me

\- even though I had a native Mandarin speaker with me, it took at least 30
minutes to register

\- the police officer kept asking me for the number of my visa, and didn't
understand that I'm on visa-free transit; in the end I provided number of some
stamp that I got in my passport while entering the country

In summary, while it was obvious to me that I have to visit a police station
unless staying in a hotel, this process is very troublesome. It definitely
wasn't designed for Airbnb-era, it is assumed that if you stay at private
place, you have host that will help you with the registration process.

~~~
dis-sys
to be perfectly clear - airbnb is illegal in China as the pure residential
complex/buildings are not allowed to have any commercial activities.

should there be any airbnb in my complex, I could pick up the phone and call
police, they are required to be here to handle the case in 15 minutes by law.
did it two months ago, they forced the owner to shutdown the business
permanently on the spot. ready to do it any time when it happens again in my
complex.

------
fatjokes
Does sound like the border official was being overly cautious about the
author's role as a journalist.

That said, having traveled around the world on multiple visas (particularly in
the US), I can vouch that traveling on any visa other than tourism is a pain
in the ass. I'm always ready to be turned away. I usually have a large
institution backing my non-tourism travels (a university or a large
corporation) and their advice is consistently: don't argue, just turn back
then tell our lawyers and let them deal with it.

------
mstaoru
It is a classic example of "rule by law" which is in full effect in PRC.
You're required to register within 24 hours at the "police station", no
details of the said station, no opening hours or any further information is
given. The process is quite slow, the queues are long, and the officials are
visibly irritated every time you come and wake them up from their slumber.
Then there are people flying 3-4 times per week to Hong Kong or Seoul on
business, technically they are required to register every single time they
enter China. Of course, nobody is doing that. So that's a #1 easy to reach
tool to exercise any kind of control over foreigners.

~~~
yorwba
> no details of the said station, no opening hours or any further information
> is given

If you are staying in a hotel, you don't need to go to a police station.
Otherwise, the person you are staying with should be able to help you find it.

> The process is quite slow, the queues are long, and the officials are
> visibly irritated every time you come and wake them up from their slumber.

Not my experience, but maybe I just got lucky.

> Then there are people flying 3-4 times per week to Hong Kong or Seoul on
> business, technically they are required to register every single time they
> enter China.

Those people presumably have some kind of permanent residence. It would be
news to me if that required re-registration after each re-entry.

~~~
mstaoru
> Those people presumably have some kind of permanent residence. It would be
> news to me if that required re-registration after each re-entry.

M-visa holders, business visa holders are required to register with each
entry, which is surprisingly misaligned with the purpose the visa entails
(visiting fairs, business meetings etc).

------
sevilo
sorry to sound like a jerk here, while I'm aware things like this happen in
China all the time and I am no fan of this type of policies and unclear
communications, why does the author call out China in particular when they
clearly indicated he has previously broken a Chinese law, now you may not
fully agree with the law and there were unfortunate mistakes and lack of
communications by his AirBNB hosts, it is still a valid law.

Same thing happens at western countries to Chinese citizens every single day,
and yet nobody bats and eye just because Chinese aren't as vocal and
expressing their dissatisfaction. Before my family obtained Canadian
citizenship (we are originally from China), every time we crossed the US
border we'd get questioned like criminals for a good 40 minutes, mind I was a
13 year old child so what crime could I possibly commit while in the US? And
it wasn't until recently that I found out my Irish colleagues who do not even
hold permanent residency in Canada, their experience going over the US border
has been smooth as silk, no question, no fingerprints, no nothing.

I'm sorry I have a hard time emphasizing with the author, and I just don't
know what point he's trying to get to here. That China is a shithole that
discriminates western journalists? I don't know.

------
nicolas_t
He shouldn't have argued. He should have taken the 24 hours transit they first
gave him, said thanks and gone on. Arguing means that now he was denied a visa
and the immigration officer is more likely going to write copious notes about
it leading to him being denied subsequent visas.

If you're ever in a similar situation, never argue. There's no way this will
ever solve anything.

In some countries, the only way to maybe solve the situation is a bit of money
under the table but that's also quite risky and you need to know the customs
and ins and outs of the local law very well (not to mention that your home
country might consider this to be illegal). And, it usually doesn't work in
major airports since there's more control.

~~~
cocoa19
On the news: "Techcrunch employees bribe Chinese officials".

That kind of negative PR can destroy companies.

~~~
nicolas_t
Oh should have been clearer, bribing would not be recommended in a major
airport and not so much in China (where it's more a question of guanxi)

------
strayamaaate
Getting the APEC card was life changing. If you’re an Aussie or New Zealander
that visits China or anywhere else regularly in Asia, I’d highly recommend
checking your elegibilty.

My arrival in China now goes something like; fill in the arrival form, queue
at the special APEC immigration line for around 2 mins, show the card +
passport, give a polite xiexie and enter.

[https://www.border.gov.au/Busi/visas-and-migration/travel-
fo...](https://www.border.gov.au/Busi/visas-and-migration/travel-for-business-
and-events/apec-business-travel-cards)

------
dreamfactored
Author says he doesn't touch political topics and then says he's covered
censorship. This is the kind of thing which contributes to China being a total
PITA with travel and internet

------
PakG1
With all the comments here about how this is really a silly non-story (a
sentiment with which I agree), why and how is it getting upvoted so much such
that it makes the front page?

~~~
Operyl
Because a lot of people just upvote, and don't read the comments (or sometimes
even the article). The title of the article is "interesting enough" to get an
upvote.

------
jackcnreturns
Preaching to the choir, but the man openly admits violating the law and then
complains about not being able to obtain a visa. I've heard countless similar
stories for students and professionals trying to enter the United States from
very politically friendly countries, with a select few being banned from the
country altogether, based on very trivial violations of the law (we're talking
job semantics here).

In other words thems the rules. China's no different.

------
donohoe
Just to be clear, people have similar bizarre experiences with US Immigration
too.

------
oldgun
Lucky for the author though, this is probably the only time he'll have to walk
through the China bureaucracy labyrinth. Many of my friends including myself
need to deal with it from time to time.

------
dis-sys
> The reason, as it was explained to me, was that in 2015 I had broken Chinese
> law when I failed to present myself to authorities in Beijing when I had
> visited and stayed at an Airbnb residence on two different trips.
> Unbeknownst to me at the time — and something that was not communicated by
> Airbnb

When you travel to a foreign country you choose to visit, you agree to follow
the laws of the land. No one has the obligation to re-educate you about the
local laws there, it is your responsibility to learn the laws before you go.

Don't like this? Do go then.

------
em3rgent0rdr
> "sign a piece of paper that was written in Mandarin"

"Mandarin" is NOT a written language, but rather is a group of spoken dialects
in Northern China [1]. The Chinese written language is called "hàn zì" [2].

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_Chinese](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_Chinese)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_characters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_characters)

~~~
yorwba
If you use Hanzi to write down something spoken in Mandarin, I'd call the
result "written Mandarin". Of course it might at the same time be valid as
Cantonese or any of the other languages and dialects spoken in China.

~~~
garmaine
It’s not valid written form of other Chinese languages, for the record. People
who speak other Chinese languages learn to read and write Mandarin. Cantonese
can be written noticeably differently, in terms of character choice and word
order. The same can be said of Shanghainese, Taiwanese, and other “dialects”
for which there is extant literature, however small. Also, notably, “Classical
Chinese” which is totally different from the modern variants listed above.
It’s he same characters, sure, but combining in very different ways.

------
a_c
Off topic: today I learned that Hong Kong Airlines is owned by HNA Group [1],
a china company.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_Airlines](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_Airlines)

------
longcheng
Sounds like he ruined his career covering China. Well deserved. Move on, and
start another career covering India or whatever. Maybe China has become
important enough that anyone who intends to mess her law within her border
would think twice.

------
bluetwo
So how did he get busted?

~~~
abc-xyz
Considering it took them so little time to look up this private info, that
they in my opinion shouldn't even have access to in the first place, then I
think a more interesting question is whether they also have access to your
chat history on weixin/qq/momo/etc, and if they can see the names of the girls
you checked into a hotel with. They probably also have detailed info about
whenever a foreigner visited a red light shop.. how long until that info will
be used to deny foreigners entry, or land them in jail.. what a shithole..

------
est
Another typical 'fuck-you' treatment from Chinese authorities.

Why a fuck-you treatment? Fuck you. That's why.

~~~
andrewjl
How did you get that from officials just enforcing the law on the books?

~~~
est
Which law from which book? To quote from TFA

> The immigration officers explained to me that a new law that had come into
> effect in recent months meant I was unable to exercise the longer transit
> visa. My previous visits were not subject to that, I was told. The officials
> denied my request for details about this new law.

Most of the Chinese "law" are not lawfully legislated and are selectively
enforced TBH.

Looks like some kind of special 规定 or 通知 targeted directly towards OP's visa.

~~~
khuey
The law, that as the top comment to the article points out, is on the back of
the immigration card in English that you fill out when you enter.

~~~
abc-xyz
I assume you're referring to this
([http://www.joutrip.com/easyworks/data/gallery/china-
departur...](http://www.joutrip.com/easyworks/data/gallery/china-departure-
card-back.jpg))? I see no mention of having to inform the police (or whoever
you're supposed to inform) if you decide to spend a night at AirBNB..

~~~
khuey
It's #1.

~~~
abc-xyz
Huh, I always read it as entry to the country, not entry to the apartment.
Especially considering in #2 entry seem to refer to country. And entry is a
really strange choice of word to use when referring to checking in to an
apartment.

