
Rail Crossing Warnings Are Sought for Mapping Apps - dankohn1
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/19/technology/google-digital-maps-railroad-crossings-ntsb.html
======
bipson
I think we need to ensure people pay attention, instead of adding even more
information to these systems.

Sure, we could add warnings for potentially dangerous railroad crossings (e.g.
those that do not have a signal installation), and other dangerous places, but
how to ensure that people do not rely even more on their systems and after a
crash argue that their system did not warn them of this particular situation?

I know a street segment that is constantly blocked by trucks which blindly
followed the GPS to a bridge they can't pass and turning around is almost
impossible, although multiple signs warned them. Now and then a truck takes
down the roof of the bridge, although a HUGE sign says it will be too low.
Before the prevalence of the GPS, this almost never happened AFAIK, and the
drivers always blame the GPS.

What about people driving off cliffs, into lakes, or as stated in the article,
along blocked streets. If a guy puts up a sign that this street is closed, it
is closed and you need to follow, no matter what your GPS tells you. The sign
or any legal representative is the normative authority and you must obey - the
GPS is merely assisting you.

Drivers need to pay attention - and they might have to learn to do it despite
having an assisting device giving them directions.

~~~
ZeroGravitas
I would be surprised if there was any link between bridge collisions and GPS,
other than the fact that they now have something external to blame for the
error.

I certainly remember multiple accidents, both in the news and happening to
people I know, and seeing damage done to local bridges before GPS was common.

~~~
bipson
I think we are talking about different things.

What I meant: Truck drivers are driving down a 3 km long street, where it is
clearly stated that they are not allowed to go and at then end of that street
is very old, wooden bridge with a roof. Almost never trucks went down there
until a few years ago, the roof had not been repaired in ages.

Since the prevalence of GPS that street is regularly blocked by trucks stuck
at a dead end. The roof was taken down around a year ago by a large truck
ignoring at least 5 signs he is supposed to look out for (multiple max weight,
max height, etc.).

~~~
csydas
There probably should be some more sanity checks for GPS, since drivers even
pre-smartphone era were horribly inattentive, and there is no more perfect
example than the 11'8" bridge:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11_foot_8_Bridge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11_foot_8_Bridge)

There are numerous compilation videos on youtube [1] about this bridge from a
local, and it's not a matter of people following the GPS blindly each time,
it's just inattentive drivers who don't pay attention to what is in their
immediate vicinity. Watch the video linked and see how many warnings and
alerts have been made for the bridge, and how often people keep skinning off
the tops of trucks and RVs on it. It has a sensor to warn drivers in advance
if their vehicle is too tall, signs everywhere, and I imagine there must be a
fair amount of debris from the numerous accidents it has.

It's not just a matter of technology leading people astray, it is people not
really being aware of their surroundings period. The warning from a GPS map
might be nice and help, but I personally have a hard time believing that
they'll pay attention to that any more than they would the multiple warnings
in real life.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzkWTcDZFH0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzkWTcDZFH0)

------
white_rabbit
[First time commenter] I cannot thoroughly express the rage this kind of
writing provokes into me. «He came upon the rail crossing before sunrise,
having not slept substantively in more than 24 hours [during which he drove
350 miles], the safety board’s report said.» The guy did something very wrong:
what the hell do mapping apps have to do with this crash?

------
Aloha
I fear for the generation of drivers who never learned how to navigate without
some App or GPS. By using voice announced turn-by-turn directions, you loose a
certain amount of situational awareness, this situational awareness is
critical to preventing all sorts of troubles while on the road.

~~~
rplst8
Agree. Too many people are concerned with not missing their turn, and they
will take extraordinary measures not to do so. If one misses a turn, too bad.
Re-route. The number one concern of a driver on the road should not be getting
to their destination - it should be operating the vehicle in a safe manner.

~~~
drunken-serval
> Too many people are concerned with not missing their turn

This is not a new problem.

------
lucaspiller
The article says the truck got stuck on the railway - the same could have
happened if the driver knew the route too, so I don't really understand why
mapping apps are too blame. Here in the U.K. most (all?) at-grade crossings
have lights, barriers, but most importantly an emergency telephone so you can
contact the signal operator in situations such as this.

~~~
pmyteh
Most. Still a reasonable number of open crossings either in rural areas or for
private use (e.g. between two fields of a particular farm). Lots of accidents
at the open ones, too - Google the Rail Accident Investigation Branch if you
want to read the post-accident investigation reports...

------
jmcdiesel
I think there are 2 sides to this...

1) Its ridiculous... the gps is a guide, not a dictator, and you're still
responsible for where you put your vehicle. If the guy was reading a map, he'd
have had the same problem.

However, 2) With autonomous vehicles coming, potential places for a vehicle to
get stuck should be on the maps...

------
thrillgore
Whatever happened to simply teaching people what a level crossing looks like
and not to stop on it?

Edit: Oh right I forgot self driving cars

------
mcphage
I just wish that mapping apps had information about traffic lights—"turn left
in 2.3 miles" is much less useful than "turn left at the third light".

------
gumby
Rail crossings often have gates across the paved road but never across the
rail road. Why not put a wooden breakaway gate across the rail road as a
visual barrier to warn drivers not to try to drive on the rails? If it failed
in the down position the train could still safely drive through it at any
speed.

Interestingly I would have considered the "driver attempt to take car on
rails" an uncommon occurrence but just yesterday someone posted a video on the
Palo Alto FB page of a Prius turning onto the tracks, then (luckily) backing
out and proceeding, to take the actual right turn they thought they were
making. Yikes!

------
Ensorceled
More importantly, our self driving cars need this data.

I think the convergence of drivers getting worse and self driving systems
getting better is going to make this happen very soon.

------
mjevans
Instead of warnings, can I get the apps to please know where the crossings are
and just avoid them if it doesn't cost too much time penalty?

(E.G. if there is a bridge near by that was built to avoid that issue, send me
to it)

