
Ask HN: How to learn to sleep on your back? - dawidw
Hi. Do you know any techniques, tricks etc. how to learn to sleep on your back? I tried yesterday night and after couple of hours I gave up. I was just about to sleep, maybe even sleeping a little bit but then I was awake. After few cycles I was so tired that I just turned on my side and slept like a baby till morning. I&#x27;m sure that my current position is incorrect because I have often pain in lower spine or headache so I&#x27;d like to sleep in a proper position eventually.<p>Thank you in advance for all your help!
======
tokyodude
I have only my own body and anecdotes to go on so they may not fit you.

I have always slept on my side or almost stomach. One reason is when I sleep
on my back I often get the night terrors (not sure the proper term). It's a
thing where my mind snaps awake but not my body and it's as though I'm
paralyzed. I hate that so that's one reason I don't sleep in my back.

The other is like you I don't fall asleep easily in my back.

About 10 years ago I got a tempurpedic memory foam mattress and suddenly I
could sleep in my back.

After 2 years or so though i got rid of that mattress. it was too hot and it
hurt my back in other ways. Something happened to my back such that sleeping
on my back will often trigger severe pain that doesn't happen on my side.

one other thing I found is soft beds kill my back. it's a different kind of
pain from the severe pain mentioned above. More like all my bones hurt at the
joints when I wake up after sleeping on a soft bed. If I'm at a hotel and the
bed is too soft I either have to sleep right on the edge of the mattress where
it's stiffest or just sleep in the floor.

so recommendation number one. try different mattresses

the other thing that helped my back tremendously is excercise. I can't stress
that enough. If I'm lazy and don't excercise for 8-12 days the pain comes
back.

no idea if that was helpful.

~~~
lawlorino
> It's a thing where my mind snaps awake but not my body and it's as though
> I'm paralyzed

This is called Sleep Paralysis and it's pretty horrible to experience.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis)

~~~
vekker
Sleep paralysis is only horrible when your mind makes it so. The sudden
experience of not being able to move makes people panic, and that panic then
snowballs into terrible hallucinations. If you know it is just your own mind
you are witnessing, then you can steer the experience.

~~~
kennxfl
The key is to not fight it or keep forcing your body to move. The best move is
to relax, go back to sleep, then attempt waking up at some other point. I have
experienced headaches after forcing my body to move during that paralysis
phase.

------
drakonka
Apparently there is a pillow you can get which is shaped to curve up on the
sides, making it uncomfortable to turn over to your side when sleeping. I've
heard several people claim that it helped them "train" themselves to sleep on
their backs; some even made their own makeshift barriers on the sides of their
normal pillow to discourage flipping over.

I don't have such a pillow yet, but I also noticed folding my arms under my
head (in a way where my right hand loosely grips my left shoulder and vice
versa) creates a comfortable "nook" for my head when on my back. However while
this position is comfortable for me, your arms do want to move after a while
so it's not really practical to stay in that position for the entire night.

I've also heard it suggested that putting a long pillow or a foam tube of some
kind covered with a blanket under your knees at night makes the position of
lying on your back more comfortable. The idea is basically to raise your knees
slightly instead of lying dead straight on the bed. That does indeed seem to
be more comfortable for me, so I'm in the market for such a large firm pillow
myself now.

~~~
StavrosK
There's also a pillow that gives you the correct head position[1] for sleeping
on your side. Why change your position when you can just get rid of the
headaches?

[1]: [https://www.amazon.com/LoveHome-Softness-Orthopedic-
Cervical...](https://www.amazon.com/LoveHome-Softness-Orthopedic-Cervical-
Therapeutic/dp/B018370J8Y)

~~~
dawidw
I have even 2 such pillows but I can't sleep on any of them even when I'm on
my side. I guess they are comfortable when you sleep on your back.

Anyway, mostly I suffer from pain of lumbar part of spine.

~~~
StavrosK
Are you sure you're putting the high part under your neck?

~~~
dawidw
If I remember correctly I was using both ways and for some reason it was
uncomfortable for me. Maybe I should give it a try and lying on my back.

~~~
StavrosK
I don't know about the back, but it's fantastic on my side (the high part
should be supporting your neck). Maybe give it another go?

------
raarts
You're looking at Youtube movies, but don't look at your own body. You're
jumping to conclusions while you don't have enough data.

Setup a ceiling camera to film yourself while you sleep. Study the result
carefully. Try to determine why your body is doing what it is doing.

~~~
nicklovescode
Wow, this is obvious but I didn’t think about doing it. I don’t have sleeping
issues but I do have other posture problems (eg while sitting and coding) that
I could debug that’s way. Thanks!

~~~
elektor
I would recommend the WyzeCam, it's a $20 camera that I think would work well
for your situation.

------
mamcx
This is a totally wild guess, but what if you use a hammock?

Hammocks are kind of popular in Colombia, and we use it a lot when in
vacation. To rest on them in sunny days. Or windy, like in my case!

Hammock make almost impossible to sleep against their curve, so this could
make the trick.

BTW this kind of hammock is the most confortable:

[http://hamacasdedioses.com/](http://hamacasdedioses.com/)

Is made by the indians in the guajira region, and them sleep in them by
tradition

[https://www.semana.com/especiales/articulo/la-
hamaca/79627-3](https://www.semana.com/especiales/articulo/la-hamaca/79627-3)

~~~
Doxin
For anyone interested in this: Do _not_ get a hammock with two of those wooden
bars to spread the hammock. Those are beyond awful. Other than that you'll
also want to lie in your hammock at an angle so you're not shaped like a
banana.

~~~
mamcx
+1.

The trick is "lie in your hammock at an angle". Or your back will yell at you

------
venantius
I had to learn how to do this a number of years ago due to a severe spine
injury. What I've found helps is having a large-ish but very soft pillow that
accommodates my head lying to one side or another while I'm sleeping on my
back.

~~~
dawidw
How long did it take you learn that? Did you have any system to do that? Eg.
every night lay on the back 15 minutes longer? Or you just had couple of
sleepless nights until you got used to it?

~~~
venantius
Well, it helped that doing anything other than lying on my back triggered
absolutely massive waves of pain. So I didn't really have a choice. I
recommend taking a sleep aid beforehand and following all the usual advice for
insomnia - avoid screens, read a book, lower the lights.

It felt very weird for about 3 nights, and after a few weeks started to feel
natural.

~~~
dawidw
So it seems that just keeping position on back should do the trick. Sleeping
on back sounds so abstract and not fitting to me... that I need to give it a
try! Thanks for sharing your experience!

------
lazyasciiart
It's probably easier to set up your mattress/pillow to let you sleep
comfortably on your side. This advice - [https://purple.com/blog/the-side-
sleepers-guide-to-sleeping](https://purple.com/blog/the-side-sleepers-guide-
to-sleeping) \- is from a mattress company, but several of the tips were
things I learned from a physiotherapist, and in particular the pillow between
my knees feels like it helps my lower back relax.

------
anonu
This is funny... Only because I can relate but in the completely opposite
sense. I am often told to sleep on my side to reduce snoring noises, but I
find sleeping on my back much more comfortable and will always roll on to my
back after a few hours on my side.

One old snoring trick to avoid back sleeping is to put a tennis ball in a sock
and attach it to your shirt. Maybe you can build something similar to avoid
side sleeping... Though mechanically might be a bit harder to attach to your
body.

------
sloaken
I had pain in my lower back until I bought a knee pillow. Found it online of
course. In addition when I do need to sleep on my back, because of a sinus
issue (allergies), if I raise my feet and my head it helps.

A few years ago my wife convinced me to buy one of those beds where you can
raise the foot or head. We paid WAY too much for it, I later found cheaper
ones online. But I must say I am grateful my wife convinced me to buy it.

------
openfuture
Three things:

\- sleep on a very hard surface \- you are more vulnerable on your back than
on your side (fetal position) so make sure you are in a 'sacred space' where
you feel safe \- don't force yourself to sleep like this always, it's pretty
advanced and not every day is a high confidence day

You could also try a flotation spa while you are getting to learn to relax on
your back. Yoga nidra is another possibility.

------
philippz
You might want to get rid of your pillow. Pain in neck and head often is
related to that.

@Tharkum is right. Sleeping on the back is heavily related to snoring.

------
jacknews
Is it just because of back pain?

I think there is some evidence side-sleeping is best, eg
[https://americanpostureinstitute.com/proper-sleeping-
posture...](https://americanpostureinstitute.com/proper-sleeping-posture-for-
brain-drain/) So maybe it's your bed.

------
rman666
You may have sleep apnea. Consider seeing a sleep doctor.

~~~
dawidw
I don't think I have it because I sleep very well on my side. But it causes
back ache in the morning. Anyway - thanks for suggestion.

~~~
ycombinete
I get this. My default, most comfortable position is to sleep on my back, but
if I do get terrible nightmares, headaches, and general shittiness.

~~~
dawidw
If you sleep on your side you have no nightmares or you have no dreams at all?
If the latter, I'd suspect that you don't get REM phase.

------
helen842000
I love sleeping on my side but you're right, it causes back, neck, shoulder,
chest issues from being curled up all night.

The best thing I found was to invest in a great firm mattress. Then every
couple of nights I'll remove my pillow. It was tough to do at first as we're
not used to lying so flat.

However it does force you to lie on your back, align your back and neck in a
flat position. You can feel it all resetting to the correct position. Putting
your pillow on one side of your face helps to stop your head rolling sideways.

Even if you only do this for a few hours a night before grabbing your pillow
back it still makes a positive difference.

------
samsolomon
For most of my life I've slept on my stomach. That changed when I moved to
Chicago for a 6 month period.

At the time a bed was too expensive for a temporary situation and I always
hated air mattresses. So, I decided to sleep on the floor.

The floor was carpeted, but the hardness punishes you if you move during the
night. After a couple of weeks, I was having the best sleep of my life. I'd
sleep the entire night without moving.

It's been about 5 years. I no longer sleep on the floor, but I do continue to
sleep on my back. I also sleep for most of the night.

------
emmelaich
I've never slept on my back and never want to.

If the problem is a sore back, get a better mattress.

Oddly enough the best mattresses can be cheap. A thin-ish (4 inch) rubber
mattress on a hard base is ideal for me.

------
abledon
I would suggest kneeling and placing your weight on your toes (curled
underneath, heels touching one another with butt resting on them, think
Japanese praying in front shrine) this puts a lot of weight on your pelvic
floor and strengthens the lower back and spine which gets out of whack from
sitting long periods. Do it barefoot, shoes are cheating. Sleeping on your
back will naturally keep you more awake , don’t fight it !

------
clircle
I bend the lower part of a pillow up to make a small "V" in which I position
my neck. I find this comfortable, and a good way to prevent me from rolling my
head in my sleep, which causes neck pain.

I've also found that I can only sleep on my back with my legs crossed. I'm not
sure of the ergonomic consequences of this position. I also have a very firm
mattress, which just makes sleeping on my side untenable.

------
DougN7
I suggest not using a pillow, or using the thinnest one you can. I used to
have upper back/shoulder pain and went to a chiropractor. He showed me that my
“head carriage” was off - I held my head too far forward, which caused
neck/shoulder muscles to strain more to keep the head up. I corrected it by
not using a pillow when laying on my back. A decade of pain gone in a couple
of nights! YMMV

------
skate22
It's much harder to choke in your sleep if you're on your side (especially
important if you've been drinking)

------
miguelrochefort
I can't sleep on my back either. I've tried multiple times, but I just can't
get asleep unless I lay on my stomach.

Thin pillows and/or rolled towels seem to help, as well as strategically
placing them under the knees, lower back and neck.

I might have to give blackout curtains, sleeping mask, earplugs and weighted
blankets a shot.

~~~
dawidw
According to study I've done on the Internet, sleeping on side was considered
as 'not that bad', 'you can use it if you're unable to sleep on back' etc. But
sleeping on stomach was always considered as wrong. Good luck!

------
mchahn
I was never able to sleep on my back. I usually slept face-down with me head
tilted a bit. I didn't know why. I now know I had sleep apnea my whole life. I
started using a cpap about 15 years ago and I can now sleep any way I want.

------
ltmi600
Use one of those $20 airport plane neck pillows to help you learn to sleep on
your back. I think this will work because it will give your neck the comfort
and support that you get from sleeping on your side.

------
lazyjones
Get a harder mattress, a flatter pillow (you might have test a couple) and try
locking your hands under the pillow behind your neck.

Also, get a lower spine MRI scan and go see a specialist about your pain...

~~~
dawidw
I've gone through few web pages and videos on YouTube and I'm 100% sure that
my sleeping position is just wrong. Basically I'm kind of 'twisted' \- upper
part is lying on side but hips and below are like lying on stomach. So even if
my spine problem is not caused by that (I think it is), I want to learn proper
sleeping position to avoid that factor now or in the future.

------
zha
Just keep a pillow below your knees. It will keep your knee slightly bent and
relaxed. The pillow prevents turning to the side. Works for me, otherwise a
stomach sleeper.

------
bArray
Just jam yourself in position with your quilt and pillows so that you can't
unconsciously roll. You want a pillow under your neck, but not too much and
not too hard.

------
Tharkun
I would love to learn to sleep on my side...I snore terribly when I'm on my
back. No matter what I do, I always find a way to turn onto my back in my
sleep.

~~~
dawidw
I used to snore so bad that no position was helping. I've had surgery of soft
palate and nasal septum and now even I want to try make sound of snoring, I'm
unable to. If I'm snoring now, it's not due to mechanical parts of my mouth
but the liquid produced by nose due to allergy. Yesterday night I found that
that liquid is going back to my throat and my nose stays clean. The only
problem is that I can't sleep on my back.

And there is third factor which makes people snore - overweight.

~~~
anonu
Curious what your feedback is on that surgery? Are you happy you got it done?
Many people lose weight after getting it too...

~~~
dawidw
When I was teenager, during some play I got my nose hit. At the beginning I
didn't notice anything special - my nose had been usually blocked due to
allergy so I was mouth breathing anyway. After couple of years I got signals
that I'm terribly snoring and it occurred that my nasal septum is broken and
my soft palate is too loose which are the reason of snoring. I had my surgery
done but it failed - my nose was still completely blocked (I wasn't able to
take 1 full breath) and I was still snoring. So that was many (15?) years ago.

Until 3 years ago it was getting worse. I was easily getting cold and other
infections, snoring (which caused not sleeping well), cough. Until one day
when I got constant cough that each repetition was literally making my head to
explode. It was Saturday so I get to emergency when I got some strong drugs
(something based on morphine) to stop that horrible cough. Then I decided that
I had to do everything what was possible to do.

So I went to otolaryngologist who detected 3 problems: 1) completely destroyed
tonsils causing ease of catching infections (and some "cosmetic" discomforts);
2) broken nasal septum which were blocking nose; 3) loose soft palate causing
snoring. Tonsils were in bad shape so they were only to be removed. So the
doctor fixed all the 3 points.

So what changed since then: \- no snoring at all - even if want to simulate it
my throat does not allow me to. Its shape really changed. Before it was like
top left, now it's top right at the picture:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_apnea#/media/File:UPPP._...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_apnea#/media/File:UPPP._4_figures..png)
\- no infections at all (literally nothing!) \- I am able to breath by nose as
long as I want to, even during moderate effort (eg. during going by bicycle)
\- I started to have dreams. It seems that due to snoring and vibrations made
by that I wasn't getting REM phase \- no more every morning headaches \- more
energy

But: I keep forgetting to breath by nose. That's something I've been working
on and it's getting better. My wife claims that I'm still snoring but on the
video she took I can hear that it's sound like normal person make when has
running nose. And I still have my allergy which every so often makes me sneeze
and blocks my nose. So I get up morning with dry, open mouth and blocked nose
(by allergy).

Until yesterday - when I was lying on my back in bed (barely sleeping) I felt
that my mouth was closed all the time and the liquid made by allergy was going
to throat.

So besides all the things I've read about sleeping on back - spine, muscles
etc. I hope it would help me with my nose breathing too.

~~~
anonu
That's great info - thank you for sharing your journey. It sounds like UPPP
was on balance quite positive for you. I feel like its sort of a blunt
instrument in solving a very common and widespread problem people have. It can
do more damage than good. But good to see that its brought some benefits for
you.

~~~
dawidw
> I feel like its sort of a blunt instrument in solving a very common and
> widespread problem people have.

Well, I think it's the only way to fix it. I've never heard any pill or
exercise could fix your nasal septum or soft palate. Surgery is never nice nor
safe, but what else can we do?

> It can do more damage than good

Each surgery may cause problems, especially when you need anesthesia. I heard
that after badly treated palate you may have problem with swallowing - that
your food and liquid may go through your nose, but doctor said that it's very
rare and even those cases are temporary.

The decision for me was quite easy considering where I was before it.
Practically I wasn't able to function normally so I didn't have much choice.
Constant infections, bad sleep, always tired, headaches... continuing that
could do only worse. And when you're in worse condition, the more risky is any
surgery. So I really needed to remove root of the problem. I didn't want to
waist any day longer having cold (again), not being able to go skiing, losing
energy every year. I'm glad I've done it.

That's my story but you have to think about you. Take all the good and
especially bad sides of having surgery and decide - have it now, some other
day, or maybe never? Good luck!

------
kyriakos
As someone who exclusively sleeps on his back, what's the benefit?

I find it very hard to sleep on the side and impossible to sleep on my
stomach.

------
chadcmulligan
from personal experience pain in your lower back after sleeping can be due to
muscle weakness, or dodgy mattress among other things.

------
keiferski
It’s easy: start working out a lot. If you’re truly exhausted at the end of
the day, you’ll fall asleep easily, even on your back.

~~~
snarfy
Or study a lot. A mental workout can be more exhausting than a physical one.

~~~
fabricexpert
Do both!

~~~
jonsen
For most higher animals mental effort and physical effort are coincident. Same
for our ancestors. I think it would be wise for us living a modern lifestyle
to try and emulate at least an average daily balance.

------
richev
For back pain, the first step I'd recommend is to see a physiotherapist and
get their opinion on your situation.

------
itronitron
I recommend placing two or three pillows under your knees if you are trying to
fall asleep on your back.

------
snarfy
Try this - use a crumpled up blanket for a pillow and sleep on the floor. I
bet your bed is too soft.

------
markyc
Whenever I want to sleep on my back I keep a hand on my stomach, otherwise I
dream of falling..

------
throwaway4Later
Buy a pocket T-shirt comfortable to sleep in.

Buy a tennis ball.

Insert tennis ball into pocket.

Sew or glue pocket shut.

Good for stomach sleepers, anyway.

------
smilesnd
Duck tape and plastic wrap.

------
hguhghuff
You could tie a plank across your stomach preventing rolling over.

~~~
dawidw
I guess you're referring to the situation that someone starts sleeping on back
but wakes up in different position? I haven't gone that far - last night I was
just lying down couple of hours, very tired and sleepy but unable to fall
asleep while lying on my back. Eventually I gave up, decided to ask HN, turned
on my side and slept like a baby till morning. I was a little bit late at work
though.

------
stupidcar
Get into BDSM and have your partner tie your down on your back?

