
Facebook Is Stealing Your Family’s Joy - pseudolus
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/12/opinion/sunday/facebook-privacy-parenting.html
======
product50
Another hit piece by NYTimes against Facebook. Personally, sharing good news
across Facebook/Instagram and receiving acknowledgements has been a very
satisfying experience for me.

More than that, as a consumer of Facebook, I also really appreciate when my
friends post their achievements/milestones as it lets me stay up to date with
what is going on in their lives.

Facebook allows you to scale the sharing of your happiness. And it allows you
to keep updates on what is going on with the lives of others. You can still
share the special joy in person with your close friends and family while using
Facebook - it doesn't have to be an either/or condition.

~~~
jasonlingx
FB’s business model is essentially putting ads next to your family photos.

~~~
Nextgrid
It would be a perfectly acceptable business model if it was _just_ that.

------
mises
Okay, the anti-Facebook sentiment (particularly by the New York Times) has
gotten ridiculous. "They're stealing your joy"? Seriously? I understand
they're not perfect and that they sell data. Because I understand this, I have
chosen not to give them my data by not using their service. I get everyone has
a bias, but the NYT isn't even trying to conceal it at this point.

For what it's worth, my family has connected with members we didn't know
existed who lived in foreign countries. My family immigrated from many
different places, but people were left behind and it's great to meet and know
them. Facebook isn't "evil", it just did what was best for Facebook (though
arguably not in the long term due to the backlash).

I wouldn't be surprised if Facebook sued for defamation, and they might
actually have a good case against the New York Times. NYT has broken relevant
information about Facebook, and that shouldn't count, but this is beyond the
pale. To be clear, I don't know that they would or should win, but they would
at least have a good case and that it might be worth hearing in court.

Though with all that said, I had to make a burner a few months ago for an
organization that was using a Facebook group for announcements. They
repeatedly banned my account for "suspicious activity", even though all I did
was occasionally read what was posted. They wanted a photo ID to provide I was
really me, which of course I couldn't provide as I wasn't the name with which
I signed up. I tried three different accounts, and they did this to every one
after two to three days. Why should I have to sign up as my real name? Does
Facebook really think a bad actor would hesitate to fake an ID? I may not like
what the NYT is doing, but boy is Facebook making itself hard to defend.

~~~
Nextgrid
> I have chosen not to give them my data by not using their service

But they still get your data by stalking you in every app that embeds their
SDK and by conning your less privacy-savvy friends into sharing their contacts
list (with you in it) with them.

I can keep going for a long time - I don't think there's actually any limit as
to how far this cancerous company will go as far as violating the world's
privacy. If it's technically possible, Facebook will do it, regardless of
laws, morals, etc.

~~~
mises
I agree that they will keep finding loopholes, but I'm afraid the idea of
privacy has been blown wide open. Someone else will fill the gap if Facebook
is stopped. This is precisely why I am so nervous about facial recognition and
all biometrics: once the field exists, it does not matter how much it is
regulated. Government does not have the ability to stop it. Some one will
circumvent it.

~~~
Nextgrid
When/if Facebook is stopped it will be because of these issues like privacy
violations and the damage they're doing to society by promoting crap content
or getting people addicted to scrolling endlessly for such crap.

Whoever replaces it will have to not repeat those mistakes in order to
survive.

------
blhack
Facebook is enhancing my family’s joy. My family is spread across the world.
Because of Facebook, I know what my sister in law is up to, and have things to
talk about with her when I see her. I know what my nieces do over the summer
at the cabin, and have a connection to them.

These hit pieces are ridiculous. If you don’t like Facebook, don’t use it.

~~~
Nextgrid
> If you don’t like Facebook, don’t use it.

I don't use it. It doesn't prevent them from using me anyway though. They're
happy asking my friends for their contacts list (so they can get _my_ phone
number) and setting cookies through their "Like" buttons embedded everywhere
without ever asking for my permission.

The only way to stop that company is to kill it, and these "ridiculous" pieces
might very well be the only solution (technical people have been sounding the
alarm for ages and nothing happened, so maybe something will happen when a
mainstream publication decides to attack them).

~~~
basch
So you blame fb, instead of your friends, for your friends handing over your
phone number to an advertising company? It might make sense to stop giving
your phone number out to your friends.

At some point, lets say you have 100 friends, and ONE gives out your number.
That's it, its out there. Your phone number is either de facto public
information, or you cant really give it out to anybody, except maybe banks for
verification.

~~~
y4mi
Facebook doesn't limit itself to phone numbers. They're just a convenient data
point to pin everything else they've gathered to your name.

And the thing people take offense in isn't the phone number directory... It's
everything else that they not only know about, but also sell to unrelated
third parties.

~~~
basch
Third parties like who?

------
ilovecaching
I met my spouse on Facebook, and we use it for her business, so really it's
the catalyst for all of my joy. I also live really far away from my family,
and it's an indispensable tool for me and the newer generations that are
moving farther and farther away from home to connect with their loved ones.
I've also found out about concerts, gatherings, sporting events, that I never
would have gone to in all likelihood had I not been on Facebook.

------
Abishek_Muthian
Is 'Like' incl. 'Upvotes' etc. the most impactful feature on the web i.e in
terms of influencing human behaviour?

Since 'Like' and its likes(pun intended) releases dopamine & the incentive
keeps one addicted; it became the foundation of these social networks.

Unlike actual real relationships, positive feedback from these social networks
gives instant gratification without strings attached(at-least seems like
that), making them more preferable. It has become the social currency.

Incentives are necessary for retaining users, but hypothetically if all social
networks decide to do away with 'Like' system for the sake of mental health,
what can be the alternative?

~~~
Nextgrid
Upvotes or likes per-se aren't a bad idea, they can be used to reward what the
community defines as good behaviour and filter out bad content (clickbait,
etc). It seems to work pretty well on HN or Reddit for example.

The problem arises when there is no longer a clear definition of what should
warrant a like, so the number looses its utility as a quality metric, and from
there everything breaks loose especially if the automated curation uses the
likes counter as a signal.

> Incentives are necessary for retaining users

Facebook didn't have likes in the beginning and it didn't prevent them from
growing. Maybe the incentive should be quality, relevant content and
meaningful conversations with your friends?

~~~
Abishek_Muthian
> It seems to work pretty well on HN or Reddit

Perhaps it is because of the downvotes?

>Facebook didn't have likes in the beginning and it didn't prevent them from
growing.

Yes I agree, they have been growing steadily after introducing 'Like', guess
we'll never know how much impact 'Like' would have made if Facebook didn't
introduce them and if other social networks social networks had them.

------
gopher2
I agree, it is more fun to share in person. I do this with most trip pictures
and family.

------
amai
Why not close their Facebook page then?
[https://www.facebook.com/nytimes/](https://www.facebook.com/nytimes/) Or at
least don't show the "Share on Facebook" button on articles like that.

------
akeck
Heh. My family barely uses Facebook anymore. It just faded out of our day to
day.

------
throwaway8879
Facebook isn't stealing anything. This is an excuse for one's own weaknesses,
just like most things in life. It is perfectly possible to share things with
family and friends without using Facebook. If Facebook is sucking out the joy
from your life, stop using Facebook.

There are millions of people on the planet who find FB useful though. I
personally don't, so I don't use it. If you hate Facebook so much, stop using
it. Similarly, if you don't like drugs, don't take them. I should still have
the right to shoot fentanyl up my eyeballs if that is a choice I as an
individual want to make.

~~~
mehwoot
_If Facebook is sucking out the joy from your life, stop using Facebook._

But that's exactly what the article is saying. Have an honest look at whether
facebook is bringing you joy (so trendy) and if it isn't, get rid of it.

 _There are millions of people on the planet who find FB useful though. I
personally don 't, so I don't use it. If you hate Facebook so much, stop using
it. Similarly, if you don't like drugs, don't take them. I should still have
the right to shoot fentanyl up my eyeballs if that is a choice I as an
individual want to make._

Did the article say facebook should be banned like fentanyl? I don't get the
analogy here.

