
Inside The Fine Art Factories of Yiwu, China - chrischen
https://www.instapainting.com/blog/company/2015/10/28/how-to-paint-10000-paintings/
======
redthrowaway
I love instapainting's approach to SEO: produce articles like this that are
genuinely interesting, post it to HN, then wait for TC and the like to pick
them up and reap the link juice. They've also got a few neat little hacks
hosted on www.instapainting.com which serve the same purpose. Here's a good
writeup on their strategy:

[https://www.indiehackers.com/businesses/instapainting](https://www.indiehackers.com/businesses/instapainting)

~~~
spiderfarmer
There is no fast way of doing linkbuilding these days. The effect of viral
content, and the links they bring is short-lived.

Unless it's your actual product going viral, it doesn't do much for SEO. It's
just a good way to get your name out there.

[https://moz.com/blog/the-seo-myth-of-going-viral](https://moz.com/blog/the-
seo-myth-of-going-viral)

~~~
vidarh
The immediate links to the linkbuilding content itself, sure, I'll buy that.
But those links create clicks, and some of those visitors will end up linking
other parts of the site, including the product.

So a slower process, but still one that should be worth it as long as your
viral content is actually _about_ your product and facilitating discovery of
the product.

I think that's one of the problems: People pump out content that is only
marginally about the actual product, and few people go on to visit the parts
of the site you want to _actually_ get people to link to.

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SuperPaintMan
>He built up his studio into a factory with 3 floors: a ground floor for
packaging and shipping works of art, a second story of painting areas, and a
third floor of dormitories for the painters.

As a painter [1][2] this sounds like paradise (minus the intermittent factory
assembly line commercial-kitsch factor). Replace the shipping area with a
framing/gallery floor and you have effectively created an amazing hub for
creative output/rapid development of artistic talents. Place that building in
a warehouse district and rent it out. The sheer amount of communication
between a tight knit group of visual artists would lead to amazing amounts of
growth. Throw in a middleman for national/regional outlets that need works of
a specific subject/aesthetic at non-gallery pricing and it might be
sustainable.

Startup dorm-factory when?

[1] [https://theblackbox.ca](https://theblackbox.ca)

[2] [https://theblackbox.ca/blog/primitive-
triangles/](https://theblackbox.ca/blog/primitive-triangles/)

~~~
bertiewhykovich
Artists love producing works dictated to them by consumers for twelve hours a
day in Yiwu sweatshops. They love it so much.

~~~
SuperPaintMan
I wasn't attempting to glorify the factory model, simply pointing out the
space. Removing the function of mass producing art objects and looking at it
as a collective studio space it's pretty awesome.

~~~
bertiewhykovich
Fair -- I kind of glided over that caveat in your post; my apologies.

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3chelon
At the other end of the price spectrum, albeit at a much smaller scale, Andy
Warhol used this business model quite successfully. He even called his studio
the Factory.

And in Damien Hirst's studio, his "assistants" (i.e. artists) churn out
countless spin and dot paintings which are sold as original artworks for
thousands of pounds.

~~~
staticautomatic
Plenty of prominent artists have that same studio model, also including Ai
Weiwei and, in a sort of satirical way-- Thierry Guetta, as depicted in the
film Exit Through the Gift Shop. This "production line" type operation is a
bit different thought.

~~~
3chelon
You're right, but I mention those two because I believe Warhol was the most
famous early adopter, and Hirst is the most notorious, being the richest
artist in the world.

~~~
greglindahl
Early adopter of something that dates back to at least the Middle Ages?
Earlier, really, if you consider that a lot of Roman statuary was mass-
produced. And I'm probably missing out on non-Western-culture examples.

~~~
3chelon
I may be wrong but my understanding was that the Renaissance painters would
use their assistants/apprentices to perform all the more tedious and time
consuming tasks, which in those days including making the paint itself. And in
terms of the actual painting, several stages of underpainting and the less
"interesting" passages of the painting (e.g. backgrounds, clothing) would be
done by assistants, leaving the artist to work on the focal points of the
painting (e.g. faces).

This is very different to getting assistants to create "original" dot
paintings, working to a formula, where the artist's hand only intervenes to
sign the work.

And I'm not saying it wrong, or not art, just that it is fundamentally
different to the old tradition of studio assistants.

------
nkrisc
I ordered a painting of a photograph my wife took from this site about a year
ago. Overall I was pleased with it. It's a faithful reproduction but not a
perfect facsimile. I think it worked well because the photograph (in low
light) had a very painting-like quality to it which is what made me choose it
for this in the first place. I think I paid about $60 for a 12"x12" painting.
It took a few weeks but I was very happy with the result. I don't think my
sister's painter boyfriend was very happy when I told him about it. This one
time was out of curiosity but I think I'd probably contract a local artist in
the future on principle.

~~~
NumberCruncher
Would you also buy a cell phone / laptop produced entirely by well paid
western workers or software written entirely by well paid western developers
in the future on principle? Would you be willing to pay the higher price?

~~~
nkrisc
I don't know, probably not. Art is more subjective to begin with and I have a
bias towards supporting art anyway. I'm not going to try arguing the position
is consistent.

~~~
NumberCruncher
I also support artist taking courses regularly they offer in my town. It is
kind an expensive hobby of me. But I would not pay 3 times more for a painting
only because it was produced in Europe, even if I know from my own experience
how much work it is to paint one. It is definitely a subjective topic anyway.

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fma
I noticed in the blog: "This is why all but our largest sizes of paintings
cost less than $100"

But when I go to pricing, only the smallest is $100...Mixed media has items
cheaper, but still, not exactly 'all but our largest size of paintings cost
less than $100'

Am I looking at the right place, or has prices tripled in a year?

~~~
chrischen
At the time mainly Mixed Media paintings were offered, and the default sizes
were smaller (21x28 was set as the default "large" size). The "under $100"
text links to the Mixed Media product page.

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TimMeade
I bought a few 'copy cat' paintings on ebay from china about 8 years ago. Had
them framed and people love them. Paid less than 20 each for them... That must
have evolved into this.

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paulgerhardt
This article talks a lot about Dafen but not so much about Yiwu so I thought I
would fill in.

Yiwu itself is something of an enigma. Most people in Silicon Valley haven't
heard of it. It's not political like Beijing, it's not financial like
Shanghai, and it's not electronics or fashion like Shenzhen/Guangdong. The
land is barren so the area has focused on International Trade and Commodity
Production. Most of it's goods don't even go to the US. Yiwu is the largest
exporter of "petty goods" or "small commodities" in the world. What's a petty
good? It's pretty much 100% of the things you would find in a dollar store and
most of the things you would find in a Walmart. Cheap umbrellas, bags, metal
pencil holders, hammers, hair dryers, pots, pans, artificial flowers, stock
art, lawn ornaments, flashlights, hair clips, lucky cat figurines, toilet
plungers, mailboxes and battery jumpers. I.e. most of the things you buy in
stores that you don't eat (commodities). It's also usually the first thing
that comes to mind when you hear "Made in China."

Yes, the Christmas mall is there. Yes it is an attraction. But it's not the
_main_ attraction.

There is a mall in Yiwu nick-named 'the Snake.' It's 4 miles long, 1000 feet
wide and has representatives from over 100,000 companies. There's something
like 50,000+ 10x10 foot stores. You could spend 6 seconds in each store and
given another 3 seconds to walk between stalls you still wouldn't see the
whole thing after a year. Given spaces change their stock or go out of
business at least every 3 months you can't tackle this like a Sunday shopping
trip.

The thing is though, all these booths? They're all wholesale. Most of the
goods on display are commercial samples. Most of the clerks are representing
factories or consortiums. Yes, you can go there to buy some touristy trinkets
but you'll get dirty looks if you're not representing a 'Buyer' with a capital
'B'. You don't go there with a shopping cart; you go there with a business
card and a promise to fill a 40 foot container every 2 weeks.

Buyers are sometimes from brand name stores looking to sell store-brand goods
- those Walgreen's brand picture frame hangers? Bought at Yiwu. Pretty much
anything you find at Claire's boutique. Anything you find on the check-out
counter or in those cheesy glass curios at any truck stop in this country.

Most of the buyers however aren't American. They're from Brazil, they're from
Africa, and in particular they're from the Middle East. After 2001 it became
difficult for representatives from small business in the Middle East to get
Visas for some of the US product exhibitions so they shifted their sourcing to
Yiwu. These are guys that have a state level franchise like Railey's of
Lebanon or Dollar Tree of Bangalore that need to fill shelves - frequently
they'll buy whatever they get a good deal on if they hear the factory has
excess or needs to liquidate stock because another buyer went belly-up. You go
to north Dubai and you see a mirror image of the goods in Yiwu, just marked
for consumer prices and packaged for individual sale.

So yeah, Yiwu has an office goods supply mall, a cabinet hardware mall, and
yes, even a Christmas mall.

Stability is a good thing and seasonal goods in particular are problematic. If
your company is producing something that requires very specialized tooling and
training that's only in demand 1 month a year you're going to have a hard time
keeping those trained workers around for the other 11 months.

The Christmas mall is a bit like this - they're open from March to May when
buyers for TJMax and Tesco inspect goods and place orders. The factories are
in production from June to September and then the stuff is sea-freighted out
(1 month) to warehouse centers and fulfillment to prepare for the end of
October, beginning of November delivery. Because of the seasonal nature, most
of the prime-time work gets sub-contracted out to everybody and their auntie.
This video has a pretty good look into what most of this production looks
like: [http://vimeo.com/92736460](http://vimeo.com/92736460)

For the most part, Christmas decor is low skill - just slather this plastic
bit with chrome paint and sparkles. This makes it easy for factories to hire a
bunch of workers on short notice and let them go again when demand drops off.
Because the workers are seasonal there is little care that goes to protecting
their well being. The conditions are bad, and after seeing it at the source,
it's why I don't buy cheap seasonal decorations anymore.

~~~
catbird
Thank you for writing this and linking the video.

At first I thought, "ugh, I'll never buy a Christmas decoration again!" But on
second thought, maybe this industry is helping bring people out of poverty.
Then again, all that waste is bad for the environment...

------
Mikeb85
Good article. I'd be very interested to see these artists' original works. I
imagine they have exceptional technical ability since they paint so much.

------
calebm
"Fine art factory" is an oxymoron. It's a human-powered printing machine.

~~~
3chelon
You're absolutely right. It must still be cheaper to use human skill, but I
see no technical reason this cannot be done using image processing (e.g. a
Photoshop filter), robotics and/or 3D printing.

Clearly, the whole question of art as product has been endlessly addressed by
Duchamp, Warhol and others - indeed, the whole Conceptual Art movement is in
one sense a response to this question. But the sheer scale - and chutzpah - of
this operation is staggering, and the fact it is using human skill and not
automation makes it - oddly - appear quite modern and "disruptive" to Western
eyes.

But... and this begs even more questions: I was talking to a well-known
British painter just two days ago, and he was telling me his biggest (and most
lucrative) market is China. So China is exporting cheap mass-produced art, and
importing expensive, original art!

~~~
2bitencryption
I would much prefer to buy something hand-painted (even mass-produced hand-
painted). Because I want to know a person painted it. I want to know they put
their brush in a big tin paint bin slobbered and muddy with old paint and then
pushed the brush against the canvass to make the lines.

An intelligent image processing filter would be cool to, but I would want it
for different reasons.

~~~
crooked-v
Even if talking about totally automated processes, "a robot arm painted this
based on a photo" would be a higher-status product than "a printer printed out
this image-processed photo".

------
6stringmerc
I'm glad the artists can make a decent wage in this model, especially when
contrasting that the alternative is pretty much regurgitating other famous
paintings. I'd bet that most are probably public domain by now but
reproductions can be a delicate notion sometimes when it comes to whether or
not they're being clearly described as such. The business model is a clever
way to draw out modern service and utility from an otherwise quite dated
artistic medium.

------
franciscop
Related and quite interesting, Robotic Painter Color:
[https://www.instapainting.com/blog/research/2015/09/10/robot...](https://www.instapainting.com/blog/research/2015/09/10/robotic-
painter-color/)

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obayesshelton
I wonder how you can actual get in touch directly with the factories rather
than going through a third party

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lifeisstillgood

      China has economies of scale on a scale that the economists who coined the term economies of scale never imagined.
    

About twenty years ago this painting-from-a-photo-from_china was a thing, when
you could get franchises to sell on in the UK.

~~~
TorKlingberg
It may be that painting-from-a-photo is a fad that will quickly become uncool,
then it takes 20 years for a new generation to grow up not knowing about it.

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koga-ninja
I'm glad I read this story because I find it surreal, And I read a lot.
Obviously Jeff Koons and perhaps Even Damien Hirst have assistants. This
apprentice Model was also there in the Renaissance, and if Michelangelo
painted the Sistine Chapel all by himself, Then that was probably his own
choice.

David Hockney is painting on an iPad these days, and I suppose printing it out
on a commercial inkjet. So what is an original then. Just limiting the number
of copies printed.

------
princeb
Yiwu? The location in the article is Dafen. The OP must have confused this
city for another one mentioned in an earlier HN post.

nevertheless, fascinating article. I saw these guys on reddit a while back and
the way they described the city I guessed they'd have little problem with the
production capacity - only quality control and delivery.

~~~
chrischen
Hi, one of the factories pictured and visited is in Yiwu. Contrary to popular
belief, not all art factories are in Dafen China, and the reality is it became
more of a tourist destination than an actual factory town. This is mostly
because of the rising cost of rent as Shenzhen (Dafen is really a district of
Shenzhen, not a remote "village") is also a Chinese tech hub headquartered by
many startups and companies including Tencent.

Here is a picture of a luxury condominium right at the entrance of Dafen
"village".
[https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1700930/unspecified.jpeg](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1700930/unspecified.jpeg)

Many other areas where replica paintings are manufactured include Yiwu,
Xiamen, and Beijing.

~~~
3chelon
It may well have been a village as recently as 20 years ago. Shenzhen is a
huge conurbation that has swallowed countless towns and villages.

------
artur_makly
and this post is duplicate of this one posted over 1 year ago:
[https://www.instapainting.com/blog/company/2015/10/28/how-
to...](https://www.instapainting.com/blog/company/2015/10/28/how-to-
paint-10000-paintings/)

~~~
Kiro
It's the same post, not a duplicate.

------
Paul_S
How are we not yet capable of having a robot controlled arm do this? Come on
people!

~~~
vdnkh
The Instapainting guys already do!
[https://www.instapainting.com/blog/research/2015/08/23/ai-
pa...](https://www.instapainting.com/blog/research/2015/08/23/ai-painter/)

I can't corroborate this with a link but I saw the founder talk at a meetup
and he said they were using it in production.

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artur_makly
also to note.. they print on canvas..then paint over it.

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machbio
Just went through there website (instapainting) to order - why is this
becoming the norm...

>Can we use this as a sample? If yes, we may display this on our website as an
example.

NO (+$3.00) Yes (+$0)

~~~
hx87
It's free marketing for them, so it makes sense they'd charge you for its
absence or give you a discount for permissions.

Better framing would be:

NO (-$0) YES (-$3.00)

~~~
machbio
you are right, as an end-user - I would not have noticed, if it was framed as
above..but it would be $102 (instead of $99) for 12x12 - which would be an
issue for the end-user to decide - I guess

