
A comparison between funding education in Nordic countries and the USA - ColinWright
http://www.tickld.com/x/wtf-is-wrong-is-wrong-with-americans-this-guy-nails-it
======
patdennis
As a professional liberal, it pains me to have to do this. But since nobody
else is, here's the conservative take. Because, seriously, there are real
debates about this stuff.

Imaginary Cato institute position: "Leaving higher education to the free
market is always more efficient. People naturally make the most rational
economic decisions in their journey to achieve maximum happiness. Government
interventions, such as confiscating money through the threat of violence (this
is what they call taxes) to support free higher education will always distort
this market, leading to inefficiencies on the path to maximum happiness.
Governments are incompetent and inefficient because of the lack of market
incentives, while markets are ruthlessly efficient."

Imaginary Mitt Romney position: The financial support I have received from
for-profit colleges is immense. Seriously, those places basically print money.
We need more of them.

Real Heritage Foundation positions:

[http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2010/01/ways-to-
mak...](http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2010/01/ways-to-make-higher-
education-more-affordable)

[http://blog.heritage.org/2010/08/10/the-assault-on-for-
profi...](http://blog.heritage.org/2010/08/10/the-assault-on-for-profit-
universities/)

I really do agree with the above comic strip. But liberals like me don't
operate on a vacuum. Donate some money to us, you rich silicon valley types.

~~~
raverbashing
The "liberal-free market" education isn't

Distortion n.1: offering student loans. "Ah but the unprivileged don't have
the resources to go to school!" Then give scholarships. Or cap limit student
loans (to 10k for example), yes, to a lower number.

Distortion n.2: fscking textbooks. Really, if I'm paying an absurd amount for
tuition, _everything needed should be included_. Nowhere else in the _world_
people are made to buy scantrons for example.

Distortion n.3: people shooting for "the best schools". I understand the
connections a good school offers, etc but 1) courses can only go so far (even
STEM courses), 2) after around 5 years of professional experience your
education becomes less and less important

------
lclarkmichalek
Oh can we _not_ discuss fairly complex issues in comic strip form? I've yet to
see one that doesn't automatically qualify for
r/bad{history,economics,philosophy,etc} (I'm looking at you, The Oatmeal)

~~~
ColinWright
By all means, let's have 45 submissions about Apple bidding for Beats, and
let's have "The future of Unreal Tournament begins today" at number 1 for 12
hours, getting over 700 up-votes and nearly 140 comments, but let's not
discuss the present situation with regards education.

I get it now - HN is not a place to have an intelligent discussion about
things that affect the future, it really is a place for people to discuss
technology that really matters.

~~~
lclarkmichalek
Oh, I'm fine with the discussion. But please, there is better starting point
than this shit. "your rich own most of your politicians", "a nation hurtling
towards decline" are hardly things that can be stated without justification,
and I doubt even Fox News would put them in the "fair and balanced" column.
Hell, where was the panel comparing the quality of American and Scandinavian
universities: of the top 10 universities, as ranked by QS, 6 are American, a
not insignificant fact. And I wouldn't mention it had the author not picked
the region out for special treatment, but the top university in a Scandinavian
country is ranked 45 on that list.

The comic also assumes that the fact that schools in the US are not free
automatically leads to the absence of "an educated population [which] equals a
strong, steady state ready for the future", which I don't think can be taken
to be true without evidence. Ha, most of the things he states can't be taken
to be true without evidence, which is so conveniently missing. Regardless,
this comic is shit.

So sure, we can talk about this stuff. But can we have a source not so
blatantly targeted at the lowest denominator of the left next time, please?

~~~
ColinWright
I seriously wish you'd given a useful, content-full and considered response
like this in the first instance, rather than just dismissing it. Then there
could have been a discussion that dissected the source, rather than ignoring
it. We could then have had a resource at which to point people who nod sagely
and re-tweet thoughtlessly.

Too late, now.

------
SneakerXZ
Free education is not only in the Nordic countries and it is also in a lot of
countries in Europe.

Also a few countries also offer education for really small fee.

But I definitely agree with this comic strip.

------
vasilipupkin
It's hard to compare Nordic countries to U.S. because they are small. Take
Notch. If he sells a billion bucks worth of minecraft to American
schoolchildren and pays taxes on that in Sweden - that can be a substantial
boost to Swedish coffers. Americans can't very well raise enough revenue by
exporting to Sweden.

~~~
twoodfin
I'm reminded of this purported exchange:

 _A Scandinavian economist once stated to Milton Friedman: "In Scandinavia we
have no poverty." Milton Friedman replied, "That's interesting, because in
America among Scandinavians, we have no poverty either." Indeed, the poverty
rate for Americans with Swedish ancestry is only 6.7%, half the U.S average.
Economists Geranda Notten and Chris de Neubourg have calculated the poverty
rate in Sweden using the American poverty threshold, finding it to be an
identical 6.7%._

[http://www.newgeography.com/content/001543-is-sweden-a-
false...](http://www.newgeography.com/content/001543-is-sweden-a-false-utopia)

Anyway, I look forward to this falling off the front page ASAP.

~~~
collyw
Maybe because they were all well educated?

