

Microsoft Is Disappearing Before Our Very Eyes - magsafe
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2012/12/03/microsoft-is-disappearing-before-our-very-eyes.aspx

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gvb
_Surface is available only through Microsoft, and the limited distribution is
going to make it a nonplayer this holiday season. The more powerful Surface
Pro -- fueled by Windows 8 Pro to give a more complete PC-like experience than
today's Surface -- will be out next month, all but killing demand for the less
powerful Surface that's available now._

Bingo! Surface-RT made it in time for the holiday season... but Surface-Pro
did not. Cue the Osborne Effect
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_Computer_Corporation#Th...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_Computer_Corporation#The_Osborne_Effect).

~~~
sami36
Surface Pro will sell even less than Surface RT. rumored price & battery life
are already seriously hampering any lust people might have had for it. If I
have 1k to spend, I'd rather get a proper ultra-book.

~~~
WrkInProgress
It has the same battery life as the 11 inch Macbook Air and very similar specs
across the board.

In what way is it not a proper ultra-book ?

~~~
astrodust
The keyboard isn't glued on, it's held by magnets and flops off, provides no
structural support. You can't prop it up in your lap like you can a MacBook
Air or any notebook for that matter. It's a tablet with a keyboard that's only
useful if you have a desk.

It runs Windows 8 and only Windows 8, so unlike a MacBook or even a small Dell
notebook, Linux isn't an option. It's locked down in the worst possible way,
more like an iPad than an Air.

I'm not even sure what the market for this is. People who want a computer with
a relatively terrible keyboard? People who want a bulky alternative to the
iPad?

My only hope is the pen is actually useful as this would be less expensive
than the equivalent Wacom Cintiq.

~~~
damian2000
Surface Pro can run classic Windows apps in desktop mode remember - hardly
locked down.

~~~
astrodust
I'm not talking about apps, I'm talking about the entire OS. This is not
intended to be a general purpose computing device. It is not a traditional
notebook or a replacement for one.

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jrkelly
Have been using the Lumia 920 for 2 weeks now. It's the first phone since the
original iPhone that I can't stop playing with -- details are just right
across the board. It's light on apps but I don't use anything other than
email, twitter, and RSS reader anyway. Video/Photos and screen are awesome.
Scrolling is awesome. You should give one a try before declaring MS dead in
mobile.

~~~
ori_b
The question isn't "Is it good?". The question is "Is it selling?". What are
the sales figures for windows on mobile?

I wouldn't mind giving it a shot next time I buy a phone, but most people I
talked to seem to consider it a minus. Yeah, I know, anecdotes are not data,
but from everything I read so far, sales are sluggish.

It's a pity. I want to see more than just Android and iOS.

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desireco42
I been using windows 8 for a while and it is definitely how the future will
look like. It is really good on desktop and it is perfect on tablets. I don't
have surface as I already have two ipads and kindle and it would be too much.

FYI I use OSX more then win and then it comes ubuntu, which is unfortunate for
ubuntu. I am developer so I think I need to know all of them well to be
effective.

I think Apple is making sure people voice their displeasure with win8 as it is
genuinely ahead of OSX in both functionality and design. I can't tell for sure
what will happen but I definitely would like to use something like win8 in the
future. Also, by saying it is ahead, that doesn't mean it is flawless :),
there is a ton of room for improvement.

~~~
albedoa
_I think Apple is making sure people voice their displeasure with win8_

That is one hell of a conspiracy theory. Got any evidence?

~~~
desireco42
No but Apple is expert to sway the media to do what it wants. I mean, lately
it's been releasing barely upgrades and it was covered with anticipation that
no other groundbreaking technology got.

New windows is really good, I don't like that MS is copying Apple and making
whole thing closed, kind was hoping things would go the way of the linux, not
the way of the apple, but... So, it is not perfect, but it is very futuristic
interface that works.

What I specially like is that they designed interface in such a way that it
doesn't require insane graphics card just to get it to work well.

I think we all need a lot of options and dissapearance of any would hurt us
big time.

~~~
sounds
That's evidence?

I also think we all need a lot of options and the disappearance of any will
hurt us – UEFI Secure Boot is going to reduce the number of OS options,
because it raises the price of being able to boot on generic PC hardware from
$0 to $99. Many OS's will work together the way Fedora, SuSE, and Matthew
Garrett are working together, so it may not cost each OS $99, but anything
more than $0 is a loss.

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charlieflowers
As a programmer, I always want a powerful, open computer that I can do
anything on. So it is taking a long time to dawn on me that the typical
American (and I don't know enough about other cultures to speak of them) would
much rather have a trendy, hip, portable iPad than a "full" computer. It's not
like they're going to learn to program it or anything.

I'm sure this has been obvious for a long time to non-programmers who are
observing, but I'm glad I'm at least becoming aware now.

~~~
protomyth
Its not about trendy or hip (those are generally ways people insult mere
mortals), it is about appliances versus computers. We can now build a device
that does 95% of the things a PC does and is very easy to learn to use because
of touch. PC's are devices of the twilight zone that require a priesthood to
maintain and use. Never mind the rituals (always check your virus protection,
watch out for e-mail attachments, reboot if it locks).

Get in most cars and they are automatics even though car lovers despise non-
manuals. Gear heads still exist, but it gets harder now. Basic education
opportunities have disappeared from most high schools. Look at the car
ecosystem and see where computers are headed.

~~~
hollerith
You seem to imply that iPads never lock up and never have to be rebooted. Not
so.

~~~
thedrbrian
They might need rebooting once in a while but the maintenance of an iPad is
negligible compared to a proper pc.

~~~
suresk
I own a number of electronic devices - Galaxy Nexus, iPad (3rd gen), MacBook
Pro, iMac, and a Windows desktop.

Surprisingly, the most unreliable (in terms of application crashes and weird
issues that require a reboot of the device) is hands-down the iPad. I guess a
few mitigating factors might be - app crashes are usually relatively easy to
recover from, reboots fix most other problems, and viruses/malware (which have
traditionally been vexing for many casual PC users) aren't an issue.

~~~
macavity23
I'll supply a counter-anecdote... my iPad has never crashed nor needed a non-
update reboot in the year I've had it, whereas my Galaxy Nexus is a continual
source of reboots, dropped signals and general trouble :-)

~~~
suresk
Yeah, my Nexus is slowly overtaking my iPad in that department.

It is a little surprising to me that I appear to have far more negative
experiences with iPads than is normal - I don't really do anything out of the
ordinary or even push the limits of the device, and yet, I run into all sorts
of consistent minor issues that seem to be indicative of software issues
(especially with mobile Safari).

Don't get me wrong - I'm generally happy with the device, I'm just a little
surprised at how flaky it is at times.

------
ojbyrne
I bought windows 8 because of the cheap first day release price. I dislike it
intensely.

~~~
jorts
I actually like it when I need to use it. Hitting the windows key and typing
what I want is very useful and I find it more functional than what was in
Windows 7. I don't really use Metro for much more than that, but on a desktop
I don't really need to use it for anything else. The Desktop app runs great
and is lighter than Windows 7, which was a really solid operating system.

Edit: Also, give some time for it, its app market and hardware designed for it
to mature.

~~~
shousper
>Edit: Also, give some time for it, its app market and hardware designed for
it to mature.

In other words, probably wait for Windows 9? =P

~~~
jorts
Well, I wouldn't put Win 8 and Vista on the same level, so I hope not. Sadly,
that is a possibility.

------
jayfuerstenberg
It was a mistake to try to make one OS for both desktops and tablets. The form
factors and usage styles are too different for a single OS to tackle well.

What you end up with is an unholy chimera of an OS that does neither well and
the irony here is that everybody in the industry knew this.

Truth happens. Microsoft needed to listen but didn't.

~~~
dublinben
Apple will have a unified OS for their notebooks, phones, and tablets in the
near future. We'll all say how ingenious it was, and wonder why nobody ever
tried it before.

~~~
jayfuerstenberg
The graphical elements may look similar but Apple is smart enough to know that
touch screens call for certain UIs/metaphors and that desktops call for
others.

The UI metaphors that work for PCs don't necessarily make sense on touch
screens and the ease of use tablets afford due to their "touchability" is what
Steve Jobs promised when he heralded this as the Post-PC era.

Microsoft is simply not in a position to say "We agree with Apple". Doing so
would betray Microsoft's current PC using customers.

So its hand was forced to merge tablets (which have been killing PC sales for
2 straight years quarter after quarter, something even MS can't afford to
deny) and the PCs that have brought MS this far.

To make things worse MS made Metro which makes apps all look so similar that
there is no way for developers to stand out driving some of them to other
platforms.

<http://www.riagenic.com/archives/889>

------
computerslol
The scene: a board room, the meeting is about to start.

Steve: Hey Jim, what's that?

Jim: This is a surface tablet.

Steve: Where's your laptop? We need to go over and edit our serious business
documents, which we use for serious business. Tablets are toys. We don't want
you playing angry birds in our serious business meeting!

Jim: I don't need it. This thing runs full Microsoft office.

Steve: Whaaaaaaaa...

I think everything will be fine. I see mine as less of a consumer tablet and
more of a business one. I am looking forward to the full release of office
2013 (it comes with the preview release).

I hope eventually I will be able to compile small custom .net apps for it
without going through the store.

------
hkmurakami
"lowest price this year" is a completely arbitrary time range limitation.

~~~
mathattack
It's been flat for investors for a decade.

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netpenthe
im thinking of getting a Surface Pro as a laptop replacement

i find that i just use my laptop with docks now anyway..

------
rjzzleep
linux guy here, microsoft is not disappearing anytime soon(sometimes i think
sadly not), nor is windows8.

Windows 8 is quite successful believe it or not. Microsoft still owns the
government. They can sell them whatever the hell they want.

Hybrid tablet/laptops(not talking about surface)? Windows 8 is the best OS to
use in that case(it's really just two OS in one nothing more)

What about secureboot? Basically EFF has to beg Microsoft to give them
permission to install linux on all those new windows ultrabooks.

I mean WTF, Microsoft going away? Hell, I wish that was the case!

~~~
leetrout
_Basically EFF has to beg Microsoft to give them permission to install linux
on all those new windows ultrabooks._

This is actually very interesting- for those not following along already check
out [http://www.zdnet.com/linux-foundation-uefi-secure-boot-
key-f...](http://www.zdnet.com/linux-foundation-uefi-secure-boot-key-for-
windows-8-pcs-delays-explained-7000007841/)

------
barista
Apple was there just a few days ago. Market is not perfect and far from
rational.

~~~
sami36
Apple's stock trajectory over the last few years is nothing short of
ridiculous, which is not the case of MSFT's stock.

~~~
recoiledsnake
That is because Microsoft had already had it's crazy growth in the 80s and 90s
while Apple came out of it's death throes in the 2000s. Not to mention that
MSFT gives dividends out to stockholders which keeps rewarding the
shareholders and the stock price down.

~~~
arkem
Both AAPL and MSFT pay dividends with the yield being around 3.5% for MSFT and
2% for AAPL. Dividends seem to be a new post-Jobs thing for AAPL and may not
continue into the future.

