
The worst impacts of climate change are starting to happen faster than expected - cryptoz
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-point-of-no-return-climate-change-nightmares-are-already-here-20150805
======
powera
I'm sorry, but an article that invokes arbitrary heat waves, fires, rains, and
droughts implying a "shit [has] really started hitting the fan" narrative in
the first paragraph is pure link-bait and fear-mongering, regardless of the
state of global warming. It's no more accurate than saying "Record snows in
Germany, global warming clearly fake".

~~~
codyb
I don't see that. I see "some snapshots" which points to real world examples
of things that are happening, and then I see a quote from a respected panel of
scientists issuing a dire warning. Is it not okay to quote scientists studying
climate change in an article about climate change these days if the quote is a
bit edgy?

~~~
krschultz
The problem with using those types of anecdotes is that they empower people to
use the opposite anecdotes. This winter was incredibly cold on the US east
coast. Boston had record breaking snowfall. If you let the conversation drift
into that territory, then you will not convince anyone that global warming is
a threat. They can point to a couple things that "disprove" the whole thing
and stop caring.

~~~
codyb
Isn't that why it's called climate change and not global warming? I'm pretty
sure it wouldn't be hard to drop us into an ice age. We're very much on the
edge of a knife here.

------
codyb
Maybe libertarians are right when they say individual actors act rationally
for their own self interest. But what they didn't understand was the actors
were nations composed of millions of irrational actors and there own self
interests generally include moving far too slowly to make a difference before
something catastrophic happens when it comes to climate change.

It seems to me, no one I even know, really even cares. I make a point of at
least separating my recyclables and being annoying and bringing it to the
attention of those who don't, but from there I'm at a bit of a loss on what to
do. I request no utensils when I order from seamless, but they give them to me
anyway. Half the time I open my cans recyclables can here in NYC someone has
shoved cardboard in there (I wish I could figure out who, it's really
annoying).

There just seems to be a general level of apathy regarding the whole thing.
And then I see people on facebook who complain about their or my generation
but all they're doing is complaining.

I guess I'll get back on my representative writing game and start at least
trying to feel like I'm doing something.

~~~
ridicter
There is little federal movement on climate legislation, but there are a
decent number of state-level campaigns to price carbon. The goal of many of
these organizations is to establish a model that can then be replicated
nationwide. (As the saying goes, "states are the laboratories of democracy.")

Economists [1] and climate scientists [2] agree that internalizing the "social
cost" of climate change--in terms of ocean acidification, depleted crop
yields, stronger storms and wildfires-- is the single most effective way to
mitigate its worst effects.

I personally skipped out on the startup world to volunteer for one of these
state campaigns, Oregon Climate [3]. We advocate a specific policy, the carbon
fee and dividend, where a scientifically-set price is levied per ton of CO2 at
point of source, and all resulting revenue is distributed as a yearly check to
individuals. Naturally, a price on carbon means carbon-intensive goods cost
more, which is the point: to alter consumer behavior at the point of purchase
disfavoring carbon-intensive goods.

These campaigns, like Oregon Climate and Carbon WA, operate on shoestring
budgets, so if anyone can throw coin our way, it would be greatly appreciated.
We only have two poorly paid staffers and the rest of us volunteer in our free
time.

1\.
[https://www.facebook.com/RBReich/posts/809307552415176?fref=...](https://www.facebook.com/RBReich/posts/809307552415176?fref=nf)
Robert Reich, Economist at Berkeley

2\. [http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2015/07/26/dr-james-
hansen...](http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2015/07/26/dr-james-hansen-gives-
his-idea-to-curb-climate-change-on-fareed-zakaria-gps/) \- James Hansen,
former director of NASA Goddard Institute

3\. [http://oregonclimate.org](http://oregonclimate.org)

~~~
twoodfin
Practically, how do you get China on board with this approach? Do you think it
matters?

~~~
toomuchtodo
China seems to be moving in the right direction through self-interest,
although a billion people is a lot of momentum to fight.

They still open coal plants, but they've brought more wind generation capacity
online then any other country. They continue to deploy solar energy and
thermal water heating across the country.

To push them harder, you'd need to engage the entire population.

------
dang
From the FAQ:

"Please don't delete and repost the same story, though. Accounts that do that
eventually lose submission privileges."

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html)

Deletion is for things that shouldn't have been posted in the first place,
such as revealing something personal that you later regret. It shouldn't be
routine, and using it as a device to help a story get attention is an abuse of
deletion. a small number of reposts are ok if a story hasn't had attention
yet, but you might need to use a slightly different URL.

Also, link shorteners are banned on HN. Please point to the original source.

~~~
cryptoz
Hi dang,

Sorry about that. I'm curious, though, if you see a lot of user flags on the
initial submissions I made for this article. I suspect that there are users
here who will flag every story that discusses climate change, thus preventing
HN users from ever discussing the topic. The initial submissions got 10+
points in less than 30 minutes, far more than other stories on the front page
- but they never made it to even page 3 of HN. I'm wondering why.

Sorry again, and thanks.

Edit: Source article is [http://rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-point-of-
no-return...](http://rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-point-of-no-return-
climate-change-nightmares-are-already-here-20150805)

~~~
dang
No, those posts weren't affected by flags at all. There is a penalty on
rollingstone.com by default, though, as is the case with many sites that
produce occasional substantive articles along with a lot of fluff. We review
most of those and take the penalty off on the substantive ones.

~~~
cryptoz
Oh, okay. Thank you for the information on that, I was wondering why such a
popular story was being so heavily penalised. Would you consider unpenalizing
this submission with the correct link? The article is very high quality and
well worth a discussion on HN. Thanks.

~~~
dang
I've done so, but with misgivings. First, HN hasn't been capable of having
much substantive discussion about this in the past. Second, Hansen's
announcement was discussed recently at
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9927099](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9927099).
Third, this article is written in an alarmist style. You can defend that by
arguing that it's an alarming situation, but it sets the discussion up to be
even more polarized. However, let's see what happens.

~~~
cryptoz
Thanks, I appreciate your flexibility and care on this issue. I'm aware HN has
trouble discussing this topic, but I think that's one reason we very much need
to keep talking about it.

The HN community has some of the best skills needed to help solve our climate
problems, and more discussion of the urgency and scale is (hopefully) useful.
Thanks again

------
williesleg
That's wonderful!

Can't wait to get my beach front property once I finish shoveling all this
snow.

