

Las Vegas Slot Machines vs Electronic Voting Machines - jgv
http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2006/03/16/GR2006031600213.gif

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eli
Scary stuff, but this is from 2006 and not all of these things are still true
in all places. (States like CA require access to all software used on
machines, for example.)

That said, these comparisons between voting machines and ATMs or slot machines
are always a bit unfair. Slot machines and ATMs carefully log and track every
action that every user does on them. In a voting machine, it must be
_impossible_ to tie a vote to a specific person. This is makes it a much
trickier problem to solve.

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something
The problem may be tricky, but surely it's worth solving and doing so
publicly. Shouldn't this be doable?

Of all the things i would like to see well-intentioned billionaires do,
funding a permanent mission to perfect voting is very high on the list. what
greater gift to democracy than provable integrity of its atom?

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eli
Here's the other thing, though: voter fraud is _incredibly_ rare. Yes, we
could do better. But this is not the most pressing issue of our time.

Really, we may be better off launching a PR campaign to remind people that
voting mostly works.

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bigiain
It's not jut about whether vote fraud is happening though - its also about the
_perception_ of whether vote fraud _can_ happen.

I think it would be worth expending a considerable amount of resources not in
the expectation of catching any fraud, but to be able to demonstrate that if
there _were_ any vote fraud, there are appropriate means in place to find it.

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eli
Actually, we already kinda did that. Attorney General Ashcroft made voter
fraud a top priority for the Department of Justice. Yet there were very few
convictions nationwide, and nearly all of them were for honest mistakes.

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andyv
I am sooooo glad I don't have to vote electronically. Folks here who flip bits
for a living know only too well how easy this is to do. Changing a thousand
paper ballots? Hard, time comsuming, messy. Changing a thousand electronic
ballots? Invisible, silent, quick, untracable...

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dminor
How exactly do you think those paper ballots are being counted?

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ertyujhygfd
In civilised democracies they are counted in public by lots of little old
ladies while inspectors from each party, and any member of the public can
watch them.

Of course this does rather reduce the drama and excitement so it might not be
suitable for you chaps.

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stretchwithme
I think its worth mentioning that winner-take-all elections prevent you from
getting your interests represented. So this whole debate is like fiddling with
the alignment of your wheels when the car's no longer on the road.

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mkramlich
I voted today. A few of the issues I had to vote on had only 1 choice. (I
fill-in the bubble, or, not. WTF.) Several had 2 choices, the RP candidate or
the DP candidate. A few had 3-5 choices. A few had a blank line for "write in"
choice. This is "democracy" in action today in the USA, folks.

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stretchwithme
We need proportional representation. I'm pretty sure I'd have better choices
with PR. Right now its a choice between people that don't understand economics
or real life and people that don't understand economics or real life.

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stretchwithme
All you need in a voting machine is something that can properly punch the
cards. That's what the problem in 2000. You don't need to send the votes over
the Internet or store anything on the machine. It doesn't need to be secure.

But you will need a PC that costs a couple hundred bucks. And a card punch
machine that has been around for decades. In other words, commodity hardware.

Once you've made your choices and your ballot's punched, you should be able to
walk it over to a completely different PC that has a punch card reader. And
maybe its got software from a completely different organization. Did it record
your choices properly? Confirmed. Now, drop it in the box.

Simple. No possibility for fraud and you got a paper trail.

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SkyMarshal
Nit: You don't even need anachronistic punch card machines, color-in-the-
bubble voting forms work just fine. Those are used in even more places than
hole punch forms these days, from voting to SAT grading machines. They're even
more commodity, more familiar to the public.

Otherwise, agreed.

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stretchwithme
yeah but using a PC lets the user see their choices clearly and encodes their
vote with a single click, instead of having to relate a letter or number to
their choice and find the question on the form and then confirm the letter or
number before finally filling it in. Grandmothers with shaky hands will have a
much easier time.

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gallerytungsten
Alas, the game is rigged in DC and the state legislatures. Regulation as
strong as the slot machines is likely to be applied...never, at the current
rate of change. So goes the gamble of democracy.

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axiom
This is probably just a function of slot machines having been around for much
longer.

Of course all these same requirements make perfect sense to implement for
voting machines.

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electromagnetic
Actually I believe it's a function that older machines were specifically
designed to be either unwinnable (I've seen some old slots, certain ones don't
have BAR or _7_ on all wheels) or for the odds to be exponentially against
you.

When the laws changed and gaming was regulated casinos wanted to make sure
_they_ weren't the ones now being cheated.

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Stevenup7002
I never thought I'd say this, but the US government definitely needs to take a
cue from Las Vegas..

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iwr
In Las Vegas gamblers get no bailouts.

