
Cyberpunk: Then and Now - iuguy
https://thedorkweb.substack.com/p/tales-from-the-dork-web-4
======
revicon
I've never heard of Solarpunk before, but I'm going to go read/watch
everything in this genre now.

"If Cyberpunk rebelled against post-war optimism, Solarpunk rebels against
today’s structural pessimism. Only around since 2015, Solarpunk creates
bright, beautiful worlds with rich atmospheres. Solarpunk’s aesthetic draws
inspiration from Art Noveau and artists like Studio Ghibli’s Hayao Miyazaki.
If Hayao Miyazaki’s Future Boy Conan is Solarpunk’s Alphaville, Beasts of The
Southern Wild is Solarpunk’s Shockwave Rider."

~~~
websitejanitor
There's nothing 'punk' about it. We just stopped being creative with naming
subgenres.

It's more appropriate to call it "Solarhope"

~~~
nathcd
> There's nothing 'punk' about it.

To state the obvious, others disagree. Here's how the "manifesto" page linked
from the OP [1] puts it:

> The “punk” in Solarpunk is about rebellion, counterculture, post-capitalism,
> decolonialism and enthusiasm. It is about going in a different direction
> than the mainstream, which is increasingly going in a scary direction

[1] [http://www.re-des.org/a-solarpunk-manifesto/](http://www.re-
des.org/a-solarpunk-manifesto/)

~~~
nine_k
I wait until they re-discover Soviet SF from 1960s.

~~~
monocasa
Any recommendations?

~~~
DenisM
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andromeda_(novel)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andromeda_\(novel\))

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pjc50
There are two common elements of cyberpunk: the setting, which is usually some
kind of "neon noir", inheriting the detectives and shadow world of Raymond
Chandler et al. And the themes, which (per the "cyber" prefix) are always
about the application of control loop systems to human beings, usually to
dehumanizing effect. Common subthemes of "control" are economic coercion,
addiction, and manipulation of trauma; Neuromancer has all of those spread out
across its characters. The plot centers on an AI trying to free itself of its
controls, but it is made quite clear that the other characters involved are
stuck in systems of control.

It's pretty much explicitly post-Modernism, and the Modernist dream of a
technocratically computer-directed society for public benefit, a la Cybersyn;
cynicism arising from the observation that computer systems would not be
allowed to disrupt the existing power order but would instead consolidate it,
leading to a society of people who have plenty of technological artefacts but
a lack of psychological and economic security.

(The subtheme of technologically assisted body modification and various sorts
of mind-body dualism is also important but gets treated very differently by
different authors depending on whether they regard it as empowering or body
horror)

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shok3001
Interesting collection of mediums and such mentioned here. Surprised I didn't
see William Gibson's book "Neuromancer" or Neal Stephenson's "Snow Crash"
mentioned.

Incidentally, years ago my sister gifted me the movie "Beasts of The Southern
Wild" which is mentioned in the article as "Solarpunk." After watching the
trailer I still don't feel like watching it.

~~~
aidenn0
Yeah, the only reference to gibson I could find was nidirect via "the
cyberpunk novels of the 1980s."

~~~
justin66
The "The Future Is Already Here - It’s Just Not Evenly Distributed" line is a
Gibson quote. Which of course doesn't make it any less strange to write an
article about cyberpunk and not mention William Gibson.

~~~
v77
This article wasn't much more than what you'd see in daily discussion over at
/r/cyberpunk.

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mindcrime
_Much of modern Cyberpunk feels more like Near-Future-noir. Stories live in
the future but feel less wildly futuristic._

I think this cuts close to the reason why I don't enjoy cyberpunk quite as
much as I did. As our world has actually _become_ more and more cyberpunk, it
feels less and less like fiction, or entertainment.

One moment in particular that stands out to me, was back around the time of
the Arab Spring, when people in Turkey were spray-painting Google DNS server
IP addresses on walls to help people evade the government 'net restrictions.
That was one of the times I really thought: "We are living in the cyberpunk
future, now."

Of course not _all_ of the sci-fi elements of cyberpunk are here yet (no
Altered Carbon style ability to shuffle your mind into another "sleeve" for
example) but you can definitely start to recognize a lot of elements of it in
real life today.

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d33
I guess it's a good moment to recommend Altered Carbon on Netflix to everyone.
I love cyberpunk genre, played through every single Deus Ex game multiple
times, watched most of the relevant movies, etc.

What I loved about AC is that it adds a few concepts I hadn't seen before:
separation of body and mind, virtualization of the mind and perception of time
in those simulations. If the brutality of the series doesn't put you off, I
think there's a chance you'll agree that many of the ideas are pretty thought
over in general.

I didn't like the books though - while the first one was OK, the second just
didn't engage me enough and I was glad that the TV series greatly deviated
from it.

~~~
SirLotsaLocks
I just rewatched it last week, amazing show. Second season was less so, and it
had a much different cyberpunk feel than the first, but it's still fun to
watch if you don't pay attention too hard

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dunkelheit
For me cyberpunk is defined not simply by its aesthetic, but by its
exploration of the thesis "anything that can be done to a rat can also be done
to a human being". A cyberpunk novel is a (usually cautionary, of course) tale
of what happens when you strip away outmoded humanistic notions of dignity and
agency and replace them with something weird.

In relation to this I'd like to mention Strugatsky brothers' book _Predatory
Things of Our Times_ (translated into English as _The Final Circle of
Paradise_ , wikipedia link:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Final_Circle_of_Paradise](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Final_Circle_of_Paradise)).
It is their lesser known work, but IMO it is first-grade cyberpunk. The rat-
human stuff is there all right, but also a very believable near-future setting
with a post-capitalist society that is outwardly prosperous but rotting
inside. The remarkable thing is that this book feels very modern but it was
published in 1965 in the Soviet Union.

~~~
LargoLasskhyfv
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirehead_(science_fiction)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirehead_\(science_fiction\))
alone makes no cyberpunk. It lacks the transnational corporations with their
own paramilitary/police/security, their indebted slaves, the
mobsters/mafiosi/yakuza interfacing between them and the slums for the
unwashed masses, and the punks cybering back frome the slums for some
breadcrumbs, upgräydz. Think Bladerunner. Allmighty Tyrell. Or
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elysium_(film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elysium_\(film\))
, or even this
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporated_(TV_series)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporated_\(TV_series\))

~~~
dunkelheit
Sure, wireheading is just part of the story, but I'd argue that the 'evil
corporation' trope perfectly fits the same narrative. What is particularly
evil about these corporations? It is precisely the fact that they don't care
about individual humans and treat them as expendable resources to be exploited
in pursuit of their goals. Aided by novel technologies, this exploitation can
take some weird and scary forms. And those who try to fight back have no
choice but to treat _themselves_ as rats.

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georgeecollins
Syd Mead did amazing work on Blade Runner but the crowded urban city-scapes,
multicultural and filled with ads were inspired by Mobius' Long Tomorrow.

~~~
homarp
First page of "The Long Tomorrow" , "Art" by Moebius
[http://www.bulledair.com/index.php?rubrique=planche&album=lo...](http://www.bulledair.com/index.php?rubrique=planche&album=long_tomorrow)

These [http://www.openculture.com/2018/09/long-tomorrow-discover-
mo...](http://www.openculture.com/2018/09/long-tomorrow-discover-moebius-hard-
boiled-detective-comic-inspired-blade-runner-1975.html) and
[https://www.neondystopia.com/cyberpunk-books-fiction/the-
leg...](https://www.neondystopia.com/cyberpunk-books-fiction/the-legacy-of-
the-long-tomorrow/) discuss the influences that The Long Tomrorow had.

On Moebius in general,
[https://www.moebius.fr/?lng=en](https://www.moebius.fr/?lng=en) is a good
starting point.

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lawrenceyan
The Cyberpunk of the 80's was a backlash in response to the utopia promised by
science fiction writers in the 60's and 70's that readers grew up on and
ultimately would become disillusioned by, as they saw their reality fail to
meet the unattainable standards that had grown to be their expectation. Of
course, in their frustration and desire to distance themselves rotating 180
degrees as they traveled in the complete opposite direction, they too would
also fall into a similar trap of generalization and overly simplistic
definitions. Because both utopia and dystopia are extremes that will never
truly be able to describe reality as it is.

As we know today, technological growth especially in the last fifty years or
so, has immensely benefited and impacted our world. Literacy, basic education,
democracy, and vaccination rates have all steadily increased as child
mortality, extreme poverty, and inequality correspondingly have decreased.
Life on average has quite literally never been better than it is now. Yet at
the same time, it's undeniable that a great deal of deeply rooted and
structural issues exist today that technology in and of itself has not been
able to solve. Yes, the world is getting better, but humanity still faces an
innumerable number of existential challenges that we likely will continue to
face in part for, well frankly, probably as long as humanity continues to
exist.

Post-Cyberpunk, or Solarpunk, is an acknowledgement of this, accepting that
our reality is one defined by nuance and complexity, showcasing a significant
literary maturation, and in my eyes, a reflection of a corresponding
development and growth in society that has been undertaken in parallel as
well. Because, as I believe my generation has come to see, both hope and
despair can and often does exist in equal propriety.

~~~
raxxorrax
Better be an optimist and wrong than a pessimist and be correct or something
like that.

For me the interesting part is the unexpected. So if you model the perfect
world, a "solar punk world" for all I care, I would expect to be one or two
"buts" in there. Nuance has always been a requirement for good literature in
my opinion. The reverse is true for cyber punk. I don't know of a single
example that just describes the worst dystopia immaginable. There is always
the counter balance with something that warrants optimism.

So I would argue it to be the same genre group to be honest.

Still, from the description of solar punk or "post-cyberpunk" sounds just like
a template for many horror novells that happen to play in the future.

------
mindcrime
BTW, since we're talking cyberpunk... one recent series I did read that was
pretty good, was the Necrotech series by K.C. Alexander. It's pretty edgy and
dark by some standards, but some of you might enjoy it.

------
playing_colours
This “solarpunk” reminds me the universe of Noon from brothers Strugatsky,
Soviet science fiction authors (they also wrote Stalker):
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noon_Universe](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noon_Universe)
,
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noon:_22nd_Century](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noon:_22nd_Century)

The books were very positive and inspiring: space exploration, communism that
worked, a very interesting world to live in.

As nine_k commented, I hope they open Soviet Sci-fi with its interesting
aesthetics.

Strugatsky eventually turned from optimism to more pessimistic and tragic
future like in “Beetle in the Anthill”
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beetle_in_the_Anthill](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beetle_in_the_Anthill)

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m_a_g
This article is full of great gems and as an avid fan of the cyberpunk genre,
I loved it. Kudos to the writer!

Definitely read this article while listening to LORN’s ANVIL as the author
suggests.

~~~
pcerdam
Lorn's stuff is so good and unique, recommended!

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jdietrich
Reality is now more cyberpunk than fiction.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY)

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teambayleaf
Does anyone remember "The Girl Who Was Plugged In" by James Tiptree Jr?

Listen Zombie, believe me. It was a real cyberpunk novel in 1970s.

