

Ask HN: My Dog is About to Die... How Can I Preserve Her DNA?? - throwawayfetch

My dog has cancer and probably won't make it through the week. I know just about everyone feels this way about their pets, but she really is an exceptional dog.<p>I would like to preserve her DNA in order to keep open the possibility of cloning her some day. The majority of cloning sample preservation services require anesthesia and a biopsy, which I simply won't do to her at this point. Also, for older dogs, my impression is that the skin cell samples that would be preserved might not be of a great quality.<p>To be clear, I would never dream of moving forward with existing cloning technologies. It would clearly be unethical at this stage.<p>However, I think there's a very good chance that in the coming decades the safety concerns will be resolved, and the technologies will advance to the point where a healthy clone could be created from just DNA samples, and not require a biopsied skin sample.<p>So far, I've used a couple of DNA banking services to keep some samples:<p>http://www.genetrackus.com/tests/dna-banking<p>http://www.vetdnacenter.com/canine-dna-banking.html<p>http://www.fluffy2.com<p>I'd like to get any knowledgeable opinions on how I might be able to preserve some viable samples on my own as a failsafe, because I'm not entirely comfortable relying on these services for a decade or more. I'm thinking some fur samples with follicles intact, sealed in airtight plastic, and maybe placed in the freezer?<p>Also, just to hopefully ease one concern I might hear about, I donate generously to the Humane Society and other animal focused charities, and plan on donating the equivalent of whatever I spend on cloning services in the future. Assuming the technology advances to where there wouldn't be any health concerns, I don't view this as anything worse than ordering a dog from a breeder.
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mikecane
Life is not like a TV repeat. Whatever made your dog -- experiences,
reactions, etc -- was unique. You would expect what your dog ultimately became
to be in the clone too. And that's just unfair to the clone. It'd be like
expecting identical twins to actually _be_ identical, beneath their
appearance. Also, even if the clone did magically repeat your dog, _you_
wouldn't be the same. I've been through this many times. Know when to just let
go.

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throwawayfetch
Thanks for replying. I've thought quite a bit about this, and I agree with you
_somewhat_. I certainly don't have unrealistic expectations of the exact same
dog being reborn. However, there is obviously a nature/nuture question here,
and I think with a very similar upbringing/training, the dog could certainly
be _very_ similar, but I'd feel very lucky just to have a similar dog, and
certainly wouldn't put a ton of pressure towards her in her upbringing.

At any rate, I obviously haven't made the final decision to go forward with it
- as I mentioned, not until things advance quite a bit - I just want to make
sure I have the option.

~~~
mikecane
But the world would not be the same. Let me give you a somewhat silly example.
In the TV series UFO, a moon to earth shuttle crashed. Sabotage was suspected.
A pilot said he'd fly the same route to see if anything was there to sabotage
a flight. Well, that's just impossible. The earth is in a different position
in relation the the sun, the moon is in a different spot in relation to both
the earth and sun, and the entire solar system has moved in relation to the
galaxy and the universe. To paraphrase a saying, it's never the same river
twice. The entire environment the clone would be in would be drastically
different than the one the original was in, so it'd really be impossible to
get a truly identical experience. And a dog's senses are different than a
human's. What you would never notice as a significant change the dog probably
would -- and that too would have an effect.

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dsl
The websites you have mentioned are "feel good" services targeted at grieving
consumers, but are unlikely to produce viable samples down the road.

Regardless of the advancements in science down the road, a biopsy is required
now to produce a sample that can be cryogenically preserved given current
technology. Cryogenics is not something you can do at home, at comes with
quite the price tag.

Three things to look for to help find a legitimate vendor: 1. Should not offer
human/primate sampling, banking, or storage. 2. Should not accept deceased
samples except by special case. 3. Should require a veterinary specialist, no
do it yourself kits.

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brudgers
Wittgenstein died on a Monday in February. Sunday morning he took me for his
last walk - down the hill to the grassy place, he struggled exceptionally to
make it back up. When we returned from the Soccer game that evening, he needed
the Bottom's Up lead for the first time to make it to the dead end. Before we
went inside he showed me he could no longer make it up the steep hill even
with his butt in a sling. Then he came inside, and laid down. When he started
struggling in pain, we gave him doggy valium. In the morning Dr. Pete gave him
the injection slowly. He went peacefully. After his heart had stopped, he
breathed three times, and moved his paw for me to hold. When I let it go, he
was gone. Saying goodbye was his final gift to me.

At nearly fifteen years and 100 pounds, he had a long life - still walking me
more than a mile most days into his last week. He wasn't supposed to enjoy
life much past 8 - he had dysplasia. Then again, at six months he was given to
the pound, too big to handle, or nixing the owner's lease.

I went because I had lost Bo. The pound is tough. That's where I had gotten
Missy [ocasionally referred to as my first wife]. I knew I needed a sign and
his standing at full 5'-6" stretch looking over the back of the kennel as I
walked through the door, was it. He'd just had a bath.

In March 1968, we moved from an apartment to a house in the suburbs. In April
we got Ringo. Ringo was my father's first dog as an adult. Knee-high, he could
pull the suction cup ball off the ceiling - the dog not my father.

I have some of Bo's ashes still. All I have of Missy is the fur stuck in her
collar. Witty's ashes are in my son's room. We will spread them at Cape San
Blas.

I share your grief.

<http://brudgers.com/arefaq/arefaq-public-docs/WP_000108.jpg>

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Lozera
I had a cat who got cancer and died within 9 months after surgery failed to
remove the cancer.

As heartbreaking as it is to see your beloved pet die and leave you forever,
remember that many more die each day just for occupying space in a pet
shelter.

Not pressuring you to go and adopt ten dogs/cats after your dog dies, but keep
in mind that cloning is a bit extreme and there are better alternatives out
there for having a furry companion. I've done a ton of studies in
microbiology, you don't even need a 101 in biology to see how random and
unpredictable life can be. Genetics will not guarantee you are getting the
same dog back. Even if you get an exact copy, the experiences the dog gets
will change its outcomes, and will make it a different dog. There's also
something called epigenetics (changes in genes throughout your life), it's
another reason why twin develop differences after birth.

Losing a pet can be tragic, but don't let grief push you in the wrong
direction. The death of my old cat eventually led me to the adoption of my
current cat, who is grateful that I rescued him from off of the streets.

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ksherlock
There was a story on This American Life a while back about a Chance, the
unusually tame bull. He died, they cloned him. The result: Pet Semetary. Your
cloned dog probably won't stomp you to death, but it wouldn't be the same dog,
it would be a sibling.

[http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-
archives/episode/291/t...](http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-
archives/episode/291/transcript)

[http://animalinventory.wordpress.com/2009/05/20/did-
chance-t...](http://animalinventory.wordpress.com/2009/05/20/did-chance-the-
bull-get-a-second-chance/)

~~~
27182818284
I remember when I first listened to that episode. It was fascinating to hear
about the second bull having none of the same qualities.

Even with that caveat the futurist in me says do it so we have more data
points.

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dear
It will not be the same dog even if it has the same DNA. It may not even have
the same physical appearance. What you miss is this particular individual.
There is no way you can recreate this individual. Either get a dog from the
same lineage, or adopt an unfortunate one from a shelter.

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xauronx
Life is transient, and many times that's what makes it great.

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musiic703
This is retarded get another dog

