

CarDroid: Android built into cars. Please vote so we can get funding - romonopoly
http://nissaninnovationgarage.com/gallery/idea/14902

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chrisreed212
Can already do some of this, though not as integrated - an OBD2 to bluetooth
adapter plugged into the OBD2 port and Torque running on an Android phone. I
don't like the idea of tying something that will obsolete so quickly (an
Android device) to a car, though - look how badly supported 2 or 3 year old
Android devices are. Are ones in cars going to be supported any better? I'd
rather a standard dock so that a smart phone can be slid in, held in position
securely (not a stupid suction cup on the windshield), get access to power,
OBD2 data, audio, steering wheel audio remote controls, and a GPS aerial
(given it won't be under the windshield anymore)

~~~
viraptor
Aren't we currently in a situation where your car software / hardware just
doesn't update - ever? Apart from very recent models, I don't know of many
systems that are even possible to upgrade. And if they do, they often require
payment.

I don't think Android situation is much worse here, even if you were stuck on
only one major release.

~~~
freehunter
Newer Fords come with a USB port for firmware updates. I don't remember the
system they use (MyTouch? Ford SYNC?) but I remember my brother-in-law
mentioning doing a software upgrade on his F-150 before hooking up the trailer
to go camping.

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nlh
I'm somewhat surprised (or perhaps I shouldn't be) at the generally negative
tone of the replies here so far. Maybe this specific project isn't the winner
or the exact right idea, but I am _extremely_ bullish on the basic idea of
getting car nav / "infotainment" systems all running a common OS (be it
Android or iOS).

I think it is an absurd inefficiency and possibly one of the most anti-DRY
things out there that nearly every manufacturer has its own totally-different
way of doing things on the HUD. Every radio operates differently, nav systems
have varying degrees of quality, and overall the UX is about 50 shades of crap
:) Reminds me of the days when every phone manufacturer had a different os --
and we see how well that worked out for everyone.

I think the future of automotive UI rests on the adoption of a standard os.
Though I'm partial to iOS on my own phone, I'm happy to see either iOS or
Android in our cars (or both).

Imagine this: You get in your car -- the UI is familiar and comfortable
(though adapted for automotive use). You have access to your music library
(sync'd from iCloud) instantly, you get your choice of GPS apps (Waze, Google
Maps, Apple Maps -- lol, sorry just kidding), you can use radio services like
Pandora or Spotify, etc. And yes, the manufacturer will have to make a custom
app for the "manual stuff" like air conditioning controls, etc., but that's
still a lot better than essentially having to reinvent the whole os.

Anyway, you get the idea. I'm very excited about this stuff and am fairly
confident it's the way things are going. Whether or not this specific project
is a winner is somewhat irrelevant - its a step in the right direction.

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clumsysmurf
Coming from my experience with my Android phone, I would not want Android
controlling any mission critical function.

If its for non critical functions, thats different. There was a survey about
this sort of thing done very recently.

[http://www.fiercedeveloper.com/story/report-automakers-
shoul...](http://www.fiercedeveloper.com/story/report-automakers-should-put-
brakes-car-app-hopes/2012-09-24)

~~~
darklajid
Mission critical? That thing in the console of most cars is already anything
but mission critical.

They want to replace the entertainment (including the navigation) software,
nothing more. Android should be capable of doing that just fine and might
bring some life into a rather dull field.. These systems have so many flaws
and limitations that make them look like they're from the 90s (based on my
experience with brand new Audi, BMW and VW [1] cars in the last 3-5 years).
These systems easily set you back for more than 1000 EUR (usually far more)
and are limited in terms of supported filesystems (like 2GB limits on SD
cards), numbers of files or folders (truncating your playlist) and just .. so
.. slow..

I'd love any 'mainstream' component that is integrated into the car, running
on hardware that isn't far worse than my phone.

1: References: Had an A3 with ~every option~ as a company car in 2007, a VM
Golf GTD with ~every option~ in 2010 and rented a lot of decently sized BMWs
when travelling.

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romonopoly
Here is the idea, please vote if you like it: Most cars already have a big LCD
in the center console for navigation or entertainment, but each manufacturer
writes their own software for it. My idea is to have it run Android, which
would allow anyone to make apps specifically for cars, entertainment or
information-based, taking advantage of special API like vehicle speed, fuel,
error codes, etc (from OBD2 or ECU). This would bring huge value for car
manufacturers(offsetting the development cost) and customers would love the
limitless customization possibilities. Here is how it would look like:
<http://s13.postimage.org/8bt3a7kdj/Car_Droid.jpg>

~~~
calciphus
For what it's worth, a lot of manufacturers use .NET actually. Microsoft
started pushing for integration into those systems back in the WINCE days, and
has made significant headway. The "SYNC" based players are just the latest
iteration.

Figure the car development cycle is about 3 years, and realize Andriod was
just starting to exist in the minds of car designers when this year's models
were being designed. It'll be a while, but I wish you the best.

Bet you dollars to jelly beans that the Google driverless cars have Android
though =)

~~~
objclxt
This is definitely already happening - I tangentially work on a number of
projects embedding Android into transport, and it's really just a matter of
time before manufacturers adopt Android as a matter of course.

For example, the top two manufacturers of in-flight entertainment systems are
already transitioning to Android (Thales and Panasonic). There are a number of
benefits using Android like this, least of all you can take advantage of the
hardware expertise that already exists for building Android backed devices,
and leverage the larger amount of software talent available.

Of course, there are problems. All these embedded systems have very long shelf
lives, much longer than a typical handset. A IFE unit in a plane might be
expected to last 15 years _at least_ , a car is hopefully going to spend a
decade or more on the road. The hardware is not going to be upgraded - don't
expect updates to later Android versions.

This presents problems for third-party development, assuming manufacturers
offer it. Ideally, you'd hope for a manufacturer supplied SDK that offered you
easily consumable information and telemetrics (vehicle speed, fuel level, etc)
and an open app store. Car companies may not see an advantage to offering it
at this time.

So really, the challenge isn't to convince car manufacturers to use Android:
most are almost certainly already considering it for their high-end models.
Instead, it's to get a tech eco-system that's _open_.

~~~
snogglethorpe
> _For example, the top two manufacturers of in-flight entertainment systems
> are already transitioning to Android (Thales and Panasonic)._

Hmmm, on a flight a couple of years ago my IFE screen (Panasonic I believe)
crashed, and I was treated to linux kernel boot messages and then a bunch of
SDL (the hoary old linux graphics/game library) error messages as it messily
failed to restart properly...

It definitely had a bandaid-and-chewing-gum feel, so using something like
Android would probably be a good thing.

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sprobertson
Something worries me about commodifying driving distractions. Every day I see
several people fiddling on their phones in the front seat, and I know I'm no
less guilty. How much thought have you put in about safety criteria for these
car apps?

~~~
romonopoly
Haven't thought about safety to be honest. Reason being cars already come with
proprietary operating systems in the center console, so this wouldn't be any
different safety-wise.

~~~
sprobertson
Sure, but most proprietary systems have only basic interactivity, which you
might consider to be a feature rather than a flaw. Some even disable
interaction while driving. An average driver already can't control much more
than the steering wheel and pedals at once.

That said, I'd be totally down with some passive applications for a console.
Maybe a navigation plugin that helps find the cheapest gas without wasting
extra miles to get there, or a roadtrip meal planner that helps direct you to
restaurants you like at proper eating hours.

Hopefully no Facebook though, and definitely no GTA.

~~~
romonopoly
Right, so maybe a moderated app market would be a good solution, with apps
being placed in two categories, one category that works whether driving or
parked, and the other would only work when the car is parked.

~~~
avar
How about not trying to solve this problem by artificially crippling the
software up-front and instead just leave it up to national governments to
regulate this sort of thing? We don't have special software in mobile phones
to make them turn off when they're in a car, we've just made it illegal to
fiddle with them while driving.

The same should work just fine for certain dashboard interaction.

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grep2
If you want to know why a car running android is a bad idea, take a ride in an
8 year old BMW/Mercedes with (back then) state of the art navigation system.
While the car itself is probably still nice, the "smart" part just feels
horribly outdated - because it is. The length of these two innovation cycles
differs by a factor 3-5. For the same reason, a "smart" fridge running Android
isn't, either.

If, on the other hand, you propose introducing a reasonably standardised
protocol for interfacing your phone with the in-car audio, video and input
systems (plus readouts from the internal sensors), I definitively agree. This
allows you to update the "smart" bit every two years on contract, but you can
use the controller and screen (with longer innovation cycles, even though they
are still below the typical ttl of cars) integrated in the car.

~~~
apetresc
Tesla just pushed OTA updates to its in-car software yesterday.

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darklajid
If anyone else with more than 50 tabs open freaks out about weird bird songs
and ambient noises: Disable the sound on _this_ page, which is auto-played..

Drove me crazy for 5 minutes..

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praptak
For things like OBD monitoring I sort of prefer my own Android device. There
are already bluetooth based dongles for reading OBD. Car manufacturers would
probably lock their OS down hopelessly.

~~~
romonopoly
Yeah I've seen one, pretty nifty (but messy with all the wiring). The idea
would be that the manufacturers don't lock it down to allow outside developers
to bring value to the platform and utilize additional APIs. I made a mockup of
how it would look like: <http://s13.postimage.org/8bt3a7kdj/Car_Droid.jpg>

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emehrkay
It has always been a dream of mine to get desktop-like computing wherever I
am; in the car, in a phone, on a bike, all sorts of craziness. The biggest
drawback that I've always come up with is boot up and shut down times and when
boot up and shut downs are allowed to happen. You can turn a car off and the
radio/nav/etc. instantly turn off. That isn't true with
computers/phones/tablets.

There are android-based radios for my car that I was considering, but the
first question was how long it would take to boot up when I turned my car on.
My i[Phone|pad]/nexus7 takes a good minute, id go insane waiting on that every
time I turn my car on/off.

I've always wondered what are different about computer-like appliances and
computers when it comes to booting them up and randomly shutting them down,
even the the middle of preforming a task?

~~~
rbrcurtis
Seems to me it would be easy for the android console to go into standby while
the car is off. Basically turn off all the radios and just keep ram alive so
it can come up instantly when the car turns on again, using minimal battery.
You know, like your laptop. ;)

~~~
emehrkay
Yeah but that would die out eventually, like your laptop. These newer cars
with sophisticated systems probably do something like you're talking about. My
macbook will write the contents of ram to the hard drive once the battery dies
and load up form that image next time you boot it up, maybe that is a way to
handle it in cars.

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srlake
I've had a custom-built carputer in my vehicle for 5 years now. It first ran
Windows Embedded, and now Windows 7. The front-end UI is a commercial
application called Centrafuse(<http://www.centrafuse.com/>) at the moment, but
there are open-source options available, namely Ride-Runner
(<http://guino.home.insightbb.com/roadrunner.html>).

From a hardware perspective such a system is simple - I have a nano-ITX board,
a 12V DC-DC power supply, and an SSD. You can package this into a double-DIN
opening without issue. OBD-II connection is via Bluetooth to an adapter
plugged into the diagnostic port under my dash. GPS comes from a USB receiver.
Currently I use wifi to connect to my home/work network and load content, but
a 3G/4G dongle is an easy mobile solution.

However, by far the best solution suitable for commercial, rather than
hobbyist, use is from QNX. Check it out: <http://www.qnx.com/products/qnxcar/>
It's what powers most OEM systems, such as BMW's awesome iDrive system.

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caller9
Don't forget to add NFC. I want to tap a location through to the onboard Nav
app from maps, contact, or an appointment on my phone.

Everytime I want to go somewhere new I have to type with that damn on-screen
resistive nav screen keyboard. When 80% of the time I've already got the info
in a contact, meeting, or search result on my phone.

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buro9
There are already android devices that fit where a car stereo does:
[http://www.parrot.com/usa/products/bluetooth-hands-free-
car-...](http://www.parrot.com/usa/products/bluetooth-hands-free-car-
kits/parrot-asteroid)

The only difference would be the integration of key data points from the car
itself. But then we stray from navigation and entertainment into core
functionality of the vehicle. And at that point I'd want the device to be
proven to still be fine for the operating parameters of a car, which requires
a different level of engineering/quality than an entertainment and navigation
system.

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jiggy2011
Just out of interest does anybody know what OS these car interfaces typically
use? iDrive etc?

Is it Linux underneath or something totally bespoke?

~~~
whatusername
Ford (don't know about others) use this:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Embedded_Automotive>

Update: Fiat, Ford, Kia, Nissan all listed as references:
[http://www.microsoft.com/windowsembedded/en-
us/evaluate/wind...](http://www.microsoft.com/windowsembedded/en-
us/evaluate/windows-embedded-automotive-7.aspx)

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ericb
My buddy created KillNanny, an app that hacks a touch screen car radio named
AppRadio, so that you can run your android directly through it. His still-beta
efforts can be seen here:

<http://appradioforums.com/Thread-KillNanny-Video>

It is very cool, even though it is still in an early state.

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damiongrimfield
im starting to get really fed up with sites that require a facebook account to
do anything.

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antidoh
"Log in to use your Facebook account with Nissan Innovation Garage."

I don't exist.

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calciphus
Submitted to Reddit to try and spike the contest in your favor. Good luck!

Totally agree. This would be ideal for infotainment systems. No one is arguing
this should be running the ECU.

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d0ugal
It would drain your battery before a full day is up though ;)

I've often thought a similar thing like this would work well for entertainment
systems on flights too.

~~~
objclxt
Flight entertainment systems are moving to Android, but a number of factors
(primarily the A380 and 787s both being severely delayed) mean this roll-out
is taking a lot longer than originally planned. Both Thales
(<http://www.thales-ifs.com/topseries.aspx>) and Panasonic
([http://www.zdnet.com/blog/gadgetreviews/panasonic-testing-
an...](http://www.zdnet.com/blog/gadgetreviews/panasonic-testing-android-
based-ex3-in-flight-entertainment-system/23521)) will be moving to Android IFE
systems.

~~~
taligent
The A380 has been available for a while and I've flown on them with Qantas a
few times.

They use a Linux based system not an Android one.

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arethuza
Was probably meant to be the A350 - which is the Airbus competitor for the 787
Dreamliner:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A350>

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theltrj
what a bunch of bullcrap....facebook login required to vote = no vote

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dsolomon
Pass - the partnership with Nissan is the turn off.

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wmt
Which Android antivirus will it have? I'd rather not get malware on my car.

~~~
darkstalker
Since when Android needs antivirus?

~~~
wmt
Since it has been targeted by more malware families than Mac and (GNU/)Linux
combined?

