

It Could Be Old Age, or It Could Be Low B12 - ern
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/29/health/vitamin-b12-deficiency-can-cause-symptoms-that-mimic-aging.html?src=me&ref=general

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jphillips
Let me be the first to post the obligatory vegan response to this.

Yes most every vegan knows about B12 supplementation. People who don't know
the vegan viewpoint might view this article as critical to us.

Vitamin B12 is the new Vitamin D. In yesteryears, Vitamin D deficiencies were
a huge public health concern. Companies, especially milk companies, began
fortifying their product with vitamin D and marketing that fact because
consumers responded well to "give milk to your kids or they'll get rickets".
Now D deficiency is rare. If you read ingredients labels often (and shop at
health food stores) like most vegans, you'll have noticed that many, many
products are now fortified with B12 and other B vitamins. Even many energy
drinks! This article seems pretty misleading by saying vegans "must consume
supplements or fortified breakfast cereals to get adequate amounts [of B12]."
They seem to be saying "Vegans who don't take supplements or don't eat some
esoteric cereal for breakfast every day will become demented." Why mention
only "breakfast cereals"? Why not any of the growing number of foods fortified
with B12? I guess no article on NYT would be complete without some spin.

I'm glad this was posted in the NYT because B12 deficiency in everyone's diet
is a big concern. We as consumers should be aware of which companies are
deciding to fortify their products and support those by buying their products.
Hopefully this can go the way of Vitamin D.

~~~
sneak
Lack of sufficient B12 also causes one to erroneously believe that they are
being slighted by the mass media.

~~~
jphillips
Sneak, if you think the media, especially the NYT, does their job well and
reports without bias, you're sheltered and ignorant.

It's also surprisingly bad that you go around defending the media and calling
others "erroneous" who call the authenticity of the reporting into question.
Agribusiness is one of the largest lobby groups in America. Do you know how
lobbyists get their agenda across? One of their most successful ways is to pay
journalists. This is simple PR expenditure for them. And it works. And people
like you defend them.

And you seem to making some jab at me lacking B12 as if my veganism threatens
you. I see this all the time with people who are insecure in their own
opinions.

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SkyMarshal
Pernicious Anemia, the inability of the body (digestive system specifically)
to absorb B12, can be very difficult to detect. An ex-gf had it, and spent two
years going to doctors all over the world trying to figure out was wrong with
her.

At various times she was diagnosed with a hole in heart (for which invasive
open-heart surgery was the cure), auto-immune disease, MS, depression, and
other totally worse and completely unrelated conditions. She was suspicious of
all and kept getting second opinions until she finally found a doctor who got
it right. The treatment is relatively simple, weekly self-administered B12
injections.

So if you find yourself feeling worn, tired, mentally "cloudy"/"fuzzy",
neuropathy (fading feeling) in your extremities, or other neuro-related
issues, definitely look into this before you investigate more severe
conditions.

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NIL8
Interesting article, especially for those of us who have to problem solve for
a living. Also, I didn't realize that stomach antacids (Prilosec, Pepcid, etc)
could inhibit the body's ability to absorb B12.

~~~
kreek
I used to take Prilosec everyday, and although I changed my diet and exercised
more, I also started taking B vitamins. After six months I'm about 90% cured
of acid reflux and can even eat some things I had to avoid early on.

[http://www.livestrong.com/article/303855-b-vitamins-that-
sto...](http://www.livestrong.com/article/303855-b-vitamins-that-stop-acid-
reflux/)

------
DanielStraight
For a list of foods ordered by B-12 content, see:

[https://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles/Place/12354500/Data/SR...](https://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles/Place/12354500/Data/SR24/nutrlist/sr24w418.pdf)
[pdf]

From: <http://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=22114>

~~~
voyvf
Good thing I'm a meataterian! :D

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runjake
Nutritional yeast on popcorn. It's full of B12. It's usually in the bulk bins
at your local grocery store. Kind of an odd cheesy taste, but you get used to
it quickly. Most animal products also have a good amount of B12.

~~~
stellar678
Gotta be careful - many nutritional yeasts are fortified with B12, but the
yeast product itself doesn't naturally contain B12.

That said, it's yummy stuff.

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ck2
Are there people who still do not take a multivitamin daily?

Some studies say it doesn't help but I have to think that if someone has a
complete deficiency, it must provide a base level of sustenance?

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jkaljundi
Some good reading on B12: <http://veganhealth.org/articles/vitaminb12>

------
grandalf
Totally sloppy journalism. Anecdote followed by fact dropping intended to
create the impression that the facts support the conclusion of the anecdote.

~~~
da02
You're right, but it still does not change how vitamin b12 deficiency is
linked to depressive disorders: <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12450964>

I found it through: <https://www.google.com/search?q=vitamin+b12+depression>

The article doesn't mention methyl-b12. Most supplements supply the non-methyl
type, which is cheaper and useless. I first learned from it from
knowledgeofhealth.com. I passed the info. to an acquaintance. She and her
adult daughter finally had the energy to take showers and go back to work.
(They used NOW Foods Methyl-B12 and TwinLab Folic Acid caps.)

As much as I dislike NYTimes, at least it got attention on HN. If I had
submitted a link to similar data, it would have been ignored since NYTimes
gets people's attention. I'm used to it. My idiot relatives ignored me when I
told them my cousin could have a vitamin B12 deficiency. This after they took
him to some shrink and a medical doctor diagnosed him with... a vitamin b12
deficiency! The only time they get excited for vitamins/supplements is to lose
weight or gain energy.

~~~
grandalf
Good points. BTW how do I check if the b vitamin supplement I have (which I
take occasionally b/c I don't eat much meat) is methyl or non-methyl?

I only made the remark about the journalistic quality b/c lately I've noticed
that that exact structure (anecdote -> fact dropping -> implied conclusion) is
very commonly used by the Times in all different sections of the paper, and
clearly from the success of the paper many people are unaware that they are
reading a persuasive piece.

~~~
da02
Check the ingredients list on label. If it says, "cyanocobalamin", you got the
cheap stuff. If it says, "METHYLcobalamin", you got the good stuff.

I also recommend Purity Products multi-vitamins. Those are the best I found.
They put supermarket/drug store namebrands to shame. Just follow the
directions on the bottle. (The only reason I stopped taking them was because
they are expensive.)

I agree with you on the NYTimes and other major publications, including TV. I
remember when they tried to link Vitamin C to breast cancer. Most of the
"indie" stuff I read is in a very different format: General overview, laymen's
terms, with plenty of citations to studies and research throughout. I then use
Google for more verification and expansion on the issue. I found the world is
working against you: It's so easy to get mediocre info. and then think the
vitamin/supplement claims are just pure hype.

------
klbarry
The most amazing study on nutrition I've ever seen, is where a morbidly obese
person did not eat for one year but was kept perfectly healthy with nutrition
supplements: <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2495396/>

He went from 486 to 180 lbs, and kept it off afterwards, only gaining ~16 or
so in the next five years.

I would be interested in knowing what nutrients he was supplied to stay alive!

~~~
grannyg00se
It looks like basic multivitamins were given.

I've never heard of this solution before, but it seems it would be wise to
consider it when contemplating extreme solutions like surgery.

"Patient A.B. aged 27 years, weighed on admission 456 lb (207 kg). During the
382 days of his fast, vitamin supplements were given daily as 'Multivite'
(BDH), vitamin C and yeast for the first 10 months and as 'Paladac' (Parke
Davis), for the last 3 months. Non-caloric fluids were allowed ad libitum.
From Day 93 to Day 162 only, he was given potassium supplements (two
effervescent potassium tablets BPC supplying 13 mEq daily) and from Day 345 to
Day 355 only he was given sodium supplements (2 5 g sodium chloride daily). No
other drug treatment was given. "

