
SproutCore: Introducing GreenHouse - joegaudet
http://blog.sproutcore.com/post/535950751/introducing-greenhouse
======
jeff18
Why not ship a self-contained demo where all you have to do is double click it
to try it out, like Atlas?

I have to admit I am having some trouble installing this and setting up a
sample project.

------
samd
_"Some will even charge you for their beta releases."_

I love the SproutCore versus Cappuccino battle. Two frameworks enter, one
framework leaves.

~~~
boucher
Not really sure what that means. I don't think there has to be one winner, and
we're glad to have more people in the market trying to realize our goal of
desktop class web apps.

But let's not kid ourselves. Cappuccino has two interface builders, Atlas and
nib2cib+IB. Both of these have been used to ship commercial software. nib2cib
is completely free and open source, it's been out about as long as Cappuccino
has, and it runs together with Interface Builder, the best in breed tool for
designing interfaces for the last 20 years.

Greenhouse isn't even playing in the same game at this point.

~~~
devinus
I've already chosen which side of the fence I'm on, so with my bias in mind
I'd like to say that I evaluated Cappuccino and nib2cib+IB before I settled
with SproutCore. IB _is_ the best of breed tool for creating interfaces, but
the fact is nib2cib is nowhere near complete and many widgets failed to
translate correctly or at all. I eventually gave up on it.

~~~
tolmasky
This is of course a function of when you tried it. Its been out for over a
year now, and in that time we've built out support for a lot of the built in
widgets, especially for our 0.8 release. Things like TableView work very well
now (which last time I checked is a class that isn't even that well supported
in SC at all). And again, the proof is ultimately in the pudding: most of the
apps that are shipping today have used either nib2cib or Atlas, and we have
very few users who don't begin development today straight from our nib2cib
based projects.

~~~
ynniv
The choice between SproutCore and Cappuccino is largely philosophical (port
something that works, or build fresh with new perspective), and based on
limited data. The way I see it, either choice is still a choice for a client
side web framework, and that's a step in the right direction. For instance,
Narwhal/CommonJS/SeedJS came out of these efforts, and benefit all involved.

------
bensummers
There's so much cool stuff coming out for building web apps. If you started
your project more than a month ago, it seems to mean that you're using old,
outdated stuff which is going to make you less productive.

I console myself by realising that the lack of extra abstractions makes my
application faster and lighter.

Seriously though, how does one take advantage of new stuff without rewriting
too much or ending up with an inconsistent and messy codebase?

~~~
etgryphon
I think you will have a tough time building something that is faster than
SproutCore. Its built for speed and cloud computing. We are working with ~7
million object and getting it to work great.

~~~
bensummers
The serious part of my comment was the last paragraph.

But it's certainly an interesting question: When should you adopt the latest
and greatest for an existing project?

~~~
devinus
When you find the existing project cumbersome or find yourself severely
hampered by your exiting tools.

In other words, when it makes sound business sense, I guess.

------
oomkiller
Seems half baked at the moment, but so did Atlas and nib2cib when they came
out. I definitely prefer Sproutcore to Cappuccino and Objective-J. In my
opinion Javascript is an excellent language for web development, where
Objective-C (in Javascript form) is not. I really hope they pour a lot more
work into this to make it great, as I'd really like to use it on an upcoming
project!

Good work so far!

------
swannodette
Seems like this is going to be the best way to build a certain class of
polished apps w/o bothering with the app store. I was impressed that an app
deployed this way can present custom launch images as well as present content
in such way that the user cannot access the browser address bar.

With Mobile Safari support for HTML5 storage and HTML5 workers this is capable
stuff.

~~~
boucher
MobileSafari doesn't support web workers.

~~~
swannodette
yet ;)

------
DanielRibeiro
I feel it is kinda sad that only nowadays we are seeing all the work that was
done on Destkop ui Frameworks emerge on Client Javascript. I wonder how many
MVC server-side frameworks (or hybrid ones like GWt) would have been invented
if such tools existed 10 years ago...

