

I Am Tired of Hearing Programmers Defend Gender Essentialism - alecdbrooks
http://meloukhia.net/2014/02/i_am_tired_of_hearing_programmers_defend_gender_essentialism/

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danellis
As someone about to implement something this is relevant to, I'd like to know
what's wrong with just having a gender choice of: "Male", "Female", "Neutral".
Your profile on some web site doesn't need to be a precisely accurate
description of the real you. Those three options should be considered not what
you are, but what you're okay with the web site referring to you as. If you
identify as neither male or female, I don't see how you can be offended by
choosing the option that remains neutral on the issue and identifies you as
neither.

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theorique
It's not that people are defending gender essentialism, they are just stating
certain facts about bodies and brains based on the radically different
hormonal profiles found in female bodies and male bodies. Just to give one
example, typically female forms of ideation tend to be more holistic and
integrative, whereas male forms of ideation tend to be visual, analytical, and
reductionistic. Does this mean that women can't be mathematicians? Of course
not.

Same thing with bodies - men tend to have greater upper body strength and
develop muscle more easily, whereas females tend to have greater difficulty
developing muscle and find it easier to develop adipose tissue. Does this mean
that no women can get good at bench press? Of course not, but it does mean
that men are more likely to be the outliers in any competition of strength.

None of this is to say that one sex is 'better' or 'worse' than the other.
People who take these proven sex differences to mean that get offended for no
reason.

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adamwong246
Once you open your self up to all the conceivable permutations of identity,
your logic starts to get really hairy. Consider the GenderBread Person:
[http://itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/wp-
content/uploads/2012/...](http://itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/wp-
content/uploads/2012/03/Genderbread-2.1.jpg) That shows 8 axises of identity
determination, compared to the traditional binary. Does a FTM 2-spirit
pansexual want to buy tampons? Beats me but I know women might and men
probably don't. Where do you draw the line? FB added, like, a million
different options and it seems that there is a new identity every day. There
is no clear way to model this data. Some identities are exclusive, some are
not, some are contradictory... Whats worse, it seems that many identities are
purposefully vague! For example, many people identify as 'queer' yet 'queer'
is perhaps the least useful label possible! AFAIK, it paradoxically labels
those-who-do-not-want-to-be-labled. I need something that fits into a
relational database, is relevant to my work, minimizes the risk that my app
will offend somebody... oh and I have to convince my boss that it's worth the
investment in time. The best answer I see is an optional "Male, Female or
Other." I agree that making the gender field (or any other field) mandatory is
a poor idea.

Frankly, I'd like to side-step the whole issue by not asking the user at all.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
That people link all sorts of preferences to 'gender' and make charts is not
necessarily important to others. Even in a civilized society, I have no
obligation to accommodate your fantasies, or even be polite to you.

The gender question, I think, is useful only when it is actionable. If it
helps to choose an honorific (Mr, Ms etc) then fine, whatever. Probably safer
to just leave both out.

~~~
adamwong246
Actually, that's exactly what living in a civilized society means- being
polite, to some degree or another. I would also recommend that you not call
your users' identities as 'fantasies.' It may not matter to you but it matters
to them and you should respect you users if you wish to keep them.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
It means civil discourse, which gives everybody a voice. It doesn't mean
having to pretend everybody is right. It definitely doesn't mean being polite,
not by a far margin.

I'd be glad to recognize any distinctions that don't require an entirely new
dictionary. Especially if they are actionable. Mostly, it'd be nice if folks
kept private things private.

~~~
adamwong246
But these things are not private and they are actionable. And they update the
dictionary every year, because language changes. If you dismiss them out of
hand, you will lose a lot of opportunity.

If greater concern, though, is that your contempt for non-normative identities
is rather poorly concealed. Trust me- you do not want to speak to your users
as you have spoken to me.

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RickS
For someone supposedly upset about generalizations, busting out "brogrammer"
in the first paragraph is not a good look.

~~~
adamwong246
I'll never understand how some will advocate equality and sensitivity and in
the same breath and with no irony, drop a derogative like "neckbeard." The
venomous way some spit the word "bro" just reeks of hypocrisy.

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grimmfang
This whole argument seems extremely petty. Gender is such a basic category
that in most cases I think users appreciate it's differentiation. This is like
getting angry you got credit card advertisements because you started college.
Seriously, how can anyone consider this a 'privacy' concern?

