

Genghis Khan's genetic legacy has competition - benbreen
http://www.nature.com/news/genghis-khan-s-genetic-legacy-has-competition-1.16767

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slg
Maybe I am missing something in the article, but how do they identify the
"founders" of these Y-chromosome lineages? What distinguishes the founder from
their father's Y-chromosome lineage? Are they just trying to attribute the
common lineage back to a historically powerful man who likely was involved in
its spread and therefore calling them the "founder"?

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IndianAstronaut
This is puzzling to me as well. It may be more a familial thing than just one
man. Ghenghis Khan was a member of a very powerful tribe and all the men, who
were likely very closely related, would have engaged in the same prolific
behavior during conquests.

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Florin_Andrei
Yes and no.

Genghis Khan actually rose from a modest station in life, unremarkable by that
time and place's standards. But you're right that it was a family thing - he
had lots and lots of descendants, about half of which were male, and these
descendants inherited some of the high status of their father, and therefore
also had lots of descendants. And so on over generations, until the status
faded.

It was a family thing indeed, but it started with one man, and that man was
Temujin, a.k.a. Genghis Khan.

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duaneb
For the 850AD lineage, it seems like the formation of the Holy Roman Empire
would seem a prime candidate for an "event" in europe that led to the "modern
european". Was Charlemagne a profitable pater for his family?

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milesskorpen
Sounds like you need a powerful man AND a man who fathered many, many,
children. A quick search suggests he had 20 kids, not sure whether that's
enough to qualify.

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Raphmedia
I doubt 20 kids would be enough to qualify. Most people of my grand parent's
generation had around 20 kids. It used to be the norm.

~~~
benbreen
Keep in mind that mortality prior to reaching one's first birthday was upwards
of 50% in most premodern societies, so the key factor here seems to me to be
not only fertility, but the ability to wield social capital over multiple
generations (employing court physicians, wetnurses, etc) to ensure that all
those kids actually live to adulthood. Hence why I find this study so
interesting - it's using genetic evidence to map the flows of social power
across generations (like with the dynasties of Genghis and the Qing).

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smallhands
20 kids!?,the man is a serial rapist.please listen to the wrath of the khan
podcast by Dan Carlin

[http://podbay.fm/show/173001861/e/1343775512?autostart=1](http://podbay.fm/show/173001861/e/1343775512?autostart=1)

~~~
milesskorpen
Once again, not talking about Genghis, the thread refers to Charlemagne.

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ctchocula
One glaring mistake I observed was: "In addition to Genghis Khan and his male
descendants, researchers have previously identified the founders of two other
highly successful Y-chromosome lineages: one that began in China with
Giocangga, a Qinq Dynasty ruler who died in 1582." while Wikipedia says Qing
Dynasty did not begin until 1644.

edit: Looks like a commenter addresses it: "Here is part of the abstract of
that paper: "We suggest that the lineage was spread by Qing Dynasty
(1644-1912) nobility, who were a privileged elite sharing patrilineal descent
from Giocangga (died 1582), the grandfather of Manchu leader Nurhaci, and
whose documented members formed approximately 0.4% of the minority population
by the end of the dynasty." Giocangga died in 1582 and was in Ming Dynasty. He
was the ancestor of Qing Dynasty rulers. His lineage was spread by Qing
Dynasty nobility. BTW, It is Qing Dynasty (1644-1912) not Qinq Dynasty."

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samatman
I wonder if it would be possible to use eigenface analysis to produce a
'typical' face borne by men who carry these particular Y chromosomes. That
would be interesting indeed.

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samatman
This could also be done for lineages of women as well, by following
mitochondrial DNA.

