
Why you should always buy the men’s version of almost anything - sonabinu
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/22/women-really-do-pay-more-for-razors-and-almost-everything-else/
======
dang
This is a dupe of
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10784861](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10784861).

------
detrino
Note that the pink scooter has a grayed-out "Add to cart" button. They are
sold out of the pink version so you can't even buy it on target.com (Where the
screenshot appears to be from). The old price is completely irrelevant when
comparing to what the red version now sells for. Note also that walmart.com
which has inventory of both colors sells them each for $24.96, which is about
the same price that target.com is selling the red version for. The author of
this article knows this and is being intentionally misleading.

~~~
icebraining
The scooter image comes from the study, and it's just one of the 22 products
in the "bikes and scooters" category they analyzed.

~~~
detrino
They cherry picked a retailer that was out of stock and listing an old price
on the pink scooter.

------
asift
This is just an all around terrible article.

The fact that they cite the claim that women are paid 79% of what men make (a
statistic which is only true when you don't account for other important
factors such as occupation, experience, and hours worked), tells you about all
you need to know about how serious they take their statistics.

Beyond that, anyone who has ever worked in sales can tell you there are huge
differences in buying behavior between men and women. Of course, I'm being
overly general here, but men and women simply value different things. My wife
looks for shampoo and carefully evaluates the scent, the brand, and any
special additives that might make her hair more silky/shiny/etc. She's willing
to pay a premium for the right combination of features she desires. I look for
the cheapest price and could care less what the shampoo claims to do. Same
thing with salons. My wife wants to be pampered, have a wonderful experience,
and values working with the same stylist on a long-term basis. I don't mind
being pampered, but if it costs me more than $30, I'd rather go watch ESPN
while some new cosmetology grad cuts my hair for $19. My wife gets much more
value out of salon services -- so they can charge her a premium.

They also seem to assume some gender neutral products are "male" products when
it's unclear why that would be the case. Both boys and girls like the color
red. Why is a red scooter a boy's scooter? Since many people like red, you can
get your unit cost down with generic high volume products (though, I also
believe Target when they say this was a glitch in their system). You start
making modified products that clearly appeal to a more niche market and it's
reasonable to assume you might pay a premium.

Lastly, if this was actually some big conspiracy against women, why does the
ruthless financial industry seem to behave so much better than these alleged
conspirators? My wife sure gets a much better deal on life and auto insurance
than I do...

------
orionblastar
Department stores have a bigger women's section from clothing and other items.
They keep more women's items in stock because they have to have a larger
selection for women because women's fashion values are different from that of
men. Keeping a bigger section for women or females means they have to mark it
up more. They mark it up more because they don't sell all of it and have to
eat the cost of the items that don't sell and are out of season.

My wife just uses my razor blades to shave her legs, she knows the women's
version costs more. (I don't shave my legs, I shave my face and my wife uses
my extra razors to shave her legs).

But I agree the women's version should cost the same as the men's version.

Usually the men's version is made first, and then they have to hire a designer
to make the women's version. The cost of that designer is figured into the
cost of the women's version. But sometimes it is just greed as well.

Edit: Added note about razors due to confusion.

~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
Just out of interest, what kind of razors do you use to shave your legs?

~~~
orionblastar
I don't shave my legs. My wife does. I shave my face and my wife takes my
extra razors to shave her legs.

~~~
DrScump

      I don't shave my legs. My wife does.
    

A good manager delegates?

~~~
orionblastar
Ah no neither myself nor my wife shaves my legs. I don't have my legs shaved.

------
stephenitis
"Of the 24 retailers in the New York City report, the worst gender pricing
disparity surfaced at Club Monaco, where women’s clothing cost an average of
28.9 percent more than men’s clothing, according to an independent analysis by
economist Ian Ayres. Urban Outfitters trailed with a 24.6 percent gender
premium, followed by Levis with 24.3 percent."

24 is a very small sampling of retailers. What season was it? What was their
methodology? I'd like to see a a table of the other 21 clothing retailers.

~~~
stephenitis
The study:
[http://www1.nyc.gov/assets/dca/downloads/pdf/partners/Study-...](http://www1.nyc.gov/assets/dca/downloads/pdf/partners/Study-
of-Gender-Pricing-in-NYC.pdf)

[http://www1.nyc.gov/site/dca/partners/gender-pricing-
study.p...](http://www1.nyc.gov/site/dca/partners/gender-pricing-study.page)

the nyc.gov summary has a useful summary here

Over the course of a woman’s life, the financial impact of these gender-based
pricing disparities is significant. In 1994, the State of California studied
the issue of gender-based pricing of services and estimated that women
effectively paid an annual “gender tax” of approximately $1,351 for the same
services as men.12 While DCA’s study does not estimate an annual financial
impact of gender pricing for goods, the findings of this study suggest women
are paying thousands of dollars more over the course of their lives to
purchase similar products as men.

~~~
facepalm
One more reason to encourage women to learn maths. If they don't care enough
to compare prices, they just have to pay more. Incidentally, this could also
explain why there is a women's aisle to begin with: women seem to be willing
to pay more, so it makes sense to differentiate your products to allow women
to pay more.

~~~
Grishnakh
There's another factor here: interest. The women's department in clothing
stores is almost always MUCH larger than the men's department. Women typically
have a lot more clothes, and a shitload more shoes than men. They just spend a
lot more on clothing than men do, on average.

Let's compare that with another market: aftermarket automobile parts and
accessories. How many women spend hundreds of dollars on a spoiler or carbon-
fiber hood for their car, or thousands of dollars on new rims? Almost none? At
best, you might find a small number of women getting fancy rims (usually just
tomboyish women who are into trucks), but good luck finding any who buy
exhaust headers, intakes, engine tunes, etc. Similarly, you also won't find
many women purchasing automotive tools like socket wrench sets, air
compressors and impact wrenches, etc.; there's a few but they're ones like my
sister, who do it because they're extremely practical and want to save money
(and usually stick to easy stuff like oil changes anyway), not because they
enjoy spending time working on their vehicles.

There's other markets like this, which largely cater to men and in which men
spend lots of their disposable income. For men, these things are usually
called "hobbies". For women, clothing and shoes are frequently their "hobby".
For many men, clothing is mainly seen as a chore anyway; from what I've seen,
it seems that it's mainly only gay men who actually care a lot about "male
fashion" and put a lot of effort and money into fancy clothes.

~~~
facepalm
Also, when we bought a car a few years ago there were some standard colors
that cost nothing, and several "premium colors" that cost a lot more. So the
concept of letting customers pay for special colors is not new (I already
mentioned the black Apple MacBook in another thread). I still think it is
simply a status symbol that you pay for.

~~~
Grishnakh
Actually, there's frequently a reason for that besides marketing. Some paint
finishes simply cost more than others. One thing you'll typically see on Euro
cars is that the "pearl" finishes cost more than the standard black and white
ones; that's because the pearls are a metallic paint that costs a lot more.
Another one on my new Mazda is the "Soul Red" color they're selling, which
costs $300 more. There's a good reason for this: unlike the regular pearls,
this is a special 3-layer paint (basecoat, tinted clear, top clear), which
costs more in materials and requires a special set-up to apply.

That's just factory paint; if you want to see really crazy and expensive
stuff, just visit a high-end body shop and ask them about color-shifting
paints (so-called "chameleon colors") which completely change color depending
on what angle you view it at.

------
monksy
Why is this on Hacker News?

How does it fit within the guidelines set?

"Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than
hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might
be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity."

On that same note, why are there frequently topics about gender politics on a
site specifically designed for technology. I thought we were trying to "get
over a gender bias." Acting like you're hip and "women friendly" by allowing
pro-women politics isn't helping your cause.

\-------

My 2 cents:

1\. There is nothing that restricts women from buying "mens" gendered items in
those cases. (Women are able to cross over both lines in the majority of
cases, men.. not so much [when it comes to clothes])

2\. Some of the items described are designed differently and composed of
different materials. Women's clothes are designed differently, represent
different risks in the market, and have much different demands by the
purchaser.

3\. "Price discrimination" \- Despite the cherry picked examples.. they
represent 2 different markets, and they are selling the items at a price that
the market is accepting.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Why is this on Hacker News?

Because someone thought it would be interesting to the community and posted
it.

If you think that its inappropriate and out of line with the guidelines,
that's what the "flag" link is for.

~~~
DrScump

      Because someone thought it would be interesting to the community and posted it...
    

In this case, _reposted_ it.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10787613](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10787613)

------
eximius
Haven't had a chance to read the article yet, but is this normalized by
shopping volume by gender, by chance? Perhaps it is an unjustified stereotype,
but the women I know shop more than men (i.e., higher demand) so the price
would naturally go up.

~~~
Grishnakh
>Perhaps it is an unjustified stereotype, but the women I know shop more than
men (i.e., higher demand) so the price would naturally go up.

Stereotypes are important, despite what some people may tell you. If you're in
sales or marketing, stereotypes are absolutely important and useful, and to
avoid them would make you very bad at your job. Stereotypes exist for a
reason: because they usually apply to the majority of people in the targeted
group. The danger with them is that there's always exceptions, so you don't
want to lump everyone in the group together in the case of a negative
stereotype.

However, when you're working in sales or marketing, this isn't the case: you
want to find clear trends in different demographics, so that you can make
products that appeal to those demographics more, and sell more of them (and
also price them for higher profit). To not do this is to miss out on potential
profit, or worse it could drive you out of business.

A big department store chain which tries to be PC and avoid stereotyping and
because of this decides to dedicate as much floor space to men's clothing and
men's fragrances and men's make-up (!!), and of course working with designers
and suppliers to actually create all this stuff to sell (since there aren't
exactly a lot of men's make-up lines out there) would quickly go out of
business.

Imagine if a departments store dedicated as much floor space to men's
underwear as it does for women's. That would be a seriously unprofitable store
department. Make-up is even worse.

------
facepalm
Well you pay extra so that you can signal "I am a girl" (more specifically - a
princess girl. Wouldn't you expect a princess to get more expensive things?).
Like the black MacBook that cost 100$ more just because of the color (or was
it the white one that was more expensive? I forgot). It's a status symbol. If
you don't care, what is stopping you from getting the red scooter?

