

Push, push, push. Expanding your comfort zone - royalghost
http://sivers.org/comfort

======
mrspeaker
For me the things on the list are not what would expand my comfort zone -
because they're things that are outside of normal routine, and therefore are
just "crazy adventures" - which I love to do.

More scary for me are the mundane things - like sending back food I'm not
happy with, asking for a raise, or trying to speak my embarrassing version of
the local language.

It's funny that to think you could be far more at ease lost and hungry in a
strange land than asking for a dinner reservation at a fancy restaurant.

~~~
nakkiel
Having witnessed it personally, being lost and hungry in a strange land
involves mundane things. Think ordering food, trying to get your English
understood, etc. I've seen people getting paralyzed in that sort of
situations.

~~~
vidarh
I think it differs greatly from person to person what categories of things
that affects you, though.

I'm like GP in that there are many mundane thing that are far more outside my
comfort zone than "extraordinary things".

E.g. starting a social conversation with a stranger for any reason takes a lot
for me. I also don't like making phone calls, and will invent excuses to
myself to avoid doing them if I'm not careful. I'm aware of most of the things
I try to avoid, and so keep it in check through conscious effort, but it's
something I have to constantly work at.

But ordering food in a strange country without knowing the language, for
example? That's fun

I went to Beijing a few years back, and one night our hosts didn't have time
to entertain we asked at our hotel for a restaurant recommendation. They tried
sending us to a downtown tourist trap, but we refused and asked for something
local.

After much arguing (they did not like the idea of sending us walking down the
road when we did not speak nor read Mandarin), we got a piece of paper with a
carefully written name of a local restaurant that should be easy to find, and
walked down the road holding it up to compare it to signs.

Nobody there spoke a word of English, and my Mandarin was limited to about 10
words from a phrase book, but we pointed and gesticulated and got a fantastic
meal without any problem.

Like GP, to me if something falls in the "crazy (or not so crazy) adventure"
category, it pretty much automatically overcomes my inhibitions. For example,
I went to France on an exchange while at school and had no problems walking up
to total strangers to ask for help in halting French, while at home I'd have
worked hard to avoid having to ask anyone for help.

I wish I knew how to trigger this change at will.

~~~
capisce
This resonates with me as well, why am I so much more outgoing and fearless in
strange situations than when I'm back in known surroundings? Strange.

~~~
manaskarekar
Think of 'reasonably anonymous' accounts on forums you post on.

Are you more cautious with your words when you have your name attached to the
post?

------
quadhome
For a one-time investment of $75k, you too can become a citizen of Dominica
and offshore your funds... taxfree!

<http://www.dominica.gov.dm/cms/index.php?q=node/678>

[http://www.goccp.com/ENG/second-
passport/2nd_passport/Second...](http://www.goccp.com/ENG/second-
passport/2nd_passport/Second_Passport/Dominica_Citizenship_and_Second_Passport.htm#advantages)

~~~
polyfractal
Or you could just pay a few hundred dollars and register a company in the
various offshore islands...then use that to move money around taxfree.

~~~
mahyarm
The hard part is not making the company, but paying the lawyers and
accountants to maintain it properly afterwards. It's like a tax by itself that
reaches thousands/tens of thousands of dollars per year.

------
wolfhumble
Stories about pushing limits gets me motivated and a lot of the "life-
glimpses" in the post resonated with me, but the part about the Muslim
conversion ceremony made me think: That is far more serious than physically
pushing your boundaries.

A conversion involves your whole belief and truth system, and will affect you
eternally as you have accepted the faith's beliefs about the afterlife and
rejected other faiths.

Such a decision should not come as a result of other people's expectations or
an eagerness to push boundaries.

~~~
sivers
It was understood with the family that I was doing the conversion “in name
only”. It made it possible for my wife's family to give her a proper Muslim
wedding, which made the Indian relatives happy. No beliefs were changed that
day. ☺

~~~
zefhous
Honest question. If it would make your fiancé's family happy, would you claim
allegiance to Hitler and condone his actions "in name only"?

Do you really think that it's okay to condone the subjugation or murder of all
people that won't convert to Islam, and then say that you didn't really
believe the words you said?

Claiming that you are a Muslim is saying that you support and agree with
Islamic doctrine and everything that comes with it. I'm not here to argue
about what Muslims believe, but you should understand what you are condoning
and take it seriously.

When you are willing to say things that you don't believe, you make your words
meaningless.

~~~
doktrin
_Do you really think that it's okay to condone the subjugation or murder of
all people that won't convert to Islam, and then say that you didn't really
believe the words you said?

Claiming that you are a Muslim is saying that you support and agree with
Islamic doctrine and everything that comes with it. I'm not here to argue
about what Muslims believe, but you should understand what you are condoning
and take it seriously_

I don't believe that the "subjugation and murder of all people that won't
convert to Islam" is in fact a central tenet of "Islamic doctrine". Certainly
not in any formal sense, and even the more negative interpretations of Islamic
history indicate that forced conversion was rare - despite the fact that
subjugation certainly occurred.

While it is true that Islamic history is marred by conflict, I would posit
that 1) un-provoked conflict is not specifically called for in Muslim
religious texts and 2) even in the case of conflict, forced religious
conversion is _not_ indicated in any fashion nor carried out in practice.

If either of the above points are incorrect, please point me towards an
appropriate source indicating otherwise.

~~~
zefhous
Indeed, I believe it is a central tenet of Islam. Whether most Muslims believe
it or not is another matter (most don't).

In short, this verse from the Quran sums it up pretty well
(<http://quran.com/9/5>):

"And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever
you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at
every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give
zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."

This shows that Islam calls for death of non-believers or it requires
conversion — "repent, establish prayer, zakah (basically Islamic tax)". I said
subjugation because the Quran does allow for non-believers to live as long as
they are subdued and pay the tax (<http://quran.com/9/29>).

If any would argue that this is not relevant, you must first understand the
Islamic doctrine of abrogation. This surah was chronologically the second-to-
last surah, and therefore it wins in any dispute or contradictory scripture.

Again, most Muslims don't believe this. But according to Islamic law what I
said holds firm.

~~~
tamersalama
The context of the verse show the command was for a specific situation when
there was a breach of a treaty (<http://quran.com/9/1-11>). The very next
verse commands the aid for those non-believers who seek protection.

Further explanation in this video <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFC8uQfJgDo>

------
eliben
I didn't get it. Honest. Can anyone explain (in "Like I'm 5" fashion) what is
the point of this post?

~~~
sivers
Sorry I didn't think it'd go onto Hacker News. It's not really meant as an
educational post with a lesson. Just my personal blog sharing a thought I was
feeling this week. If it doesn't resonate, no need to force it.

I like reading stories of my peers and heroes that are doing life-expanding
things I'd never considered. Then I realized I'd never shared mine.

~~~
ohashi
The diving one scared me a bit, I just finished my certification 2 days ago
for open water (18m). It seemed odd to me that you were at 40m on your third
dive when basic certification (PADI) required 4 dives. Not sure what it's
supposed to take for 40m, but I remember it requiring some special steps
(safety stop) if you go that deep. Would you mind sharing a bit more about
that particular experience?

~~~
sivers
I got my basic PADI with only one real dive. (+ a few quick tests). Then I
went straight for my advanced PADI, and this was my 2nd dive of my advanced
class. It was just me and the instructor, and I think he was breaking the
rules, unfortunately. I wasn't asking for it!

~~~
ohashi
I have no idea what the rules were when you did it, but it definitely sounds
like a bit of rule bending if they were anything close to what they are today.
Either way, I am sure it was a memorable experience!

------
marcamillion
Wow Internets....thnx.

I have come to a place in my life where I am considering doing a switch. A
complete switch, professionally, and have been nervous and even thinking of
not bothering.

But this post just reminded me, that sometimes it's good to push ourselves
outside of our comfort zone.

P.S. I love Derek's posts.....always so poignant and pseudo-poetic.

------
guiambros
Sounds like a post written by the Old Spice guy.

~~~
imrehg
Or The Most Interesting Man of the World
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Most_Interesting_Man_in_the...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Most_Interesting_Man_in_the_World)

------
antman
You can push your comfort zone without the risk of losing your life. I would
exchange all the experiences in the post for not forcing my kid to go to the
singaporean army, losing two years of his life.

~~~
bm3719
That was my thought reading this. This guy's child will get to pay for his
father's expanded comfort zone.

~~~
mahyarm
So to be ethical, everyone who's currently a citizen of singapore should
emigrate and renounce their citizenship due to military service. To a country
where there isn't military service? The likelihood of any sort of agressive or
defensive military action by singapore is small.

~~~
bm3719
If slavery is defined as involuntary servitude, then I don't see how
conscription isn't slavery. Condemning one's children to that may be necessary
in some situations, but in my ethical framework, I certainly wouldn't exchange
2 years of slavery for some supposed cultural enlightenment. Even more so, I
certainly wouldn't do it to my own children.

If my kids really wanted to join the Singaporean military when they grow up,
that's fine, but locking them into that when it's completely unnecessary seems
selfish in this situation. I'd certainly have that opinion of my parents had
they done the same to me.

~~~
pharrington
Slavery seems more defined by the master-slave relationship, the turning of a
person into property. The point isn't what the master is specifically forcing
the slave to do, but that the master literally owns the slave. So from this, I
can't call forced conscription slavery. _Everyone_ is forced to do things; the
morality of being forced into very limited military service is a much more
individual one.

------
geekfactor
I recently read a similarly themed article that had an interesting perspective
on risk:

"To be alive is to be at risk, to be free is to be at risk, and to be powerful
is to be at risk."

[http://www.landmarknewsletter.com/landmark-forum-leaders-
in-...](http://www.landmarknewsletter.com/landmark-forum-leaders-in-
conversation/creating-the-life-you-really-want-stimulating-risk-is-
inseparable-from-living-2/)

------
paines
Thanks.

------
goggles99
This is a fantasy because none of Sivers bad experiences and times of pure
hell or near death experiences were written about. None of the heartache, none
of the strife or regrets.

Half of any story makes it nothing more than a creative license fantasy.

~~~
SatvikBeri
You can't fit everything into one blog post. Derek has written about his pains
and failures separately: <http://sivers.org/loss>

------
goggles99
Most acquaintances of mine who have embarked on "adventures" like this have
ended up dead, maimed, homeless or with major regrets.

That said, a small number of them have had an overall very positive and life
enriching experience.

I am not surprised that Sivers is a musician. I tend to stereotype aspiring
artists and musicians as wanderers/dreamers who will most likely never make
any money and end up bitter and impoverished for the rest of their lives.
Gypsies they call them in Romania.

Can you imagine a whole society of people with this attitude. Hippie commune
comes to mind.

~~~
dualogy
Yeah... except Derek Sivers had his multi-million exit not so long ago with
the sale of CD Baby. Your point, again?

~~~
ak39
LOL!

I suppose his point is: why look for happiness in a disruptive engagement?

If you're happy/content/satisfied with a vegetative state ... well, good for
you. You've controlled your desires, an important aspect of remaining
peaceful.

But if happiness ain't about "lying on the sofa" for you, you've got to face
the truth: get off your arse and get disrupting like a gypsy!

But I really love that brilliant comment on Siver's blog:

"If you want to have something you've never had before, you're going to have
to do something you haven't done before." Rev Barbara King

