
Gates Foundation suing Saama Technologies on claims of fraud and more - mkempe
https://www.geekwire.com/2017/gates-foundation-sues-software-developer-claiming-billed-2-8m-built-nothing-value-return/
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anovikov
Interesting, i never heard it was possible. Nearly every project built by a
large organisation by contract for someone else which i was ever a part of,
failed, and the stuff described here sounds very familiar. Sometimes it was
even more than $2.8M, while more commonly, $500K-$1M. I haven't even heard of
someone being sued for that.

~~~
swalsh
I used to work for a company that built systems like this for other
organizations on contract. I'd consider every project I worked on there a
success. We always "under promised and over delivered". I think the key, as
the contractor, is to get a good set of devs, to keep them happy, and to have
a great project manager.

When these types of projects fail, it's usually because management is having
problems juggling resources, and under-bid on the project. Or they're selling
junior devs as senior devs.

~~~
11thEarlOfMar
There is a set of 'contract project ethics' out there, waiting to be codified.
Sounds like this firm violated all of them. It reminds me of how the
Affordable Care Act web interfaces were rolled out with overruns and delays.
Both sides can cause issues, whether it's cycling entire teams through, or,
repeatedly changing requirements, there are particular challenges in this type
of business.

From my view:

\- Be expert in the domain of the code you're delivering. Both project
leadership and at least a portion of the devs. In one project I observed, the
contractor was a professor, took a large contract, and hired 6 grad students
to fulfill it. None of them had professional experience, let alone domain
experience. Disaster ensued.

\- Don't let commercial concerns get in the way of project success. If you've
underbid and the company can survive the loss, take it on the chin and learn
from the mistake. If you can't survive the loss, sit down with the customer
and say, "We underbid and we can't survive the loss." Show them where you are
and give them a chance to increase the budget. If they don't, fall back on
your contract terms and terminate the project. You have contract terms that
allow you to terminate without cause, right? Choosing to reduce the team,
bring in lower cost devs, or deliver unfinished or untested code simply makes
a bad situation worse. Don't do it.

~~~
anovikov
Thing is, most of the time there is simply no chance for win-win here. If
someone can manage developers himself - why hiring a company - just go and
hire developers directly. If someone can't, he will be scammed by a company no
matter what, because that's what these companies exist for, they can't make
money otherwise (as developers can work directly and if they were any good,
they would do so).

This is also why it is so insanely hard to find contract for a company:
clients are not fools. Not most of them, at least.

Caveat: companies also know that and learned very well to pretend to be
individual developers since recently.

In essence, my experience leads me to conclusion that custom software
development is evil and should not exist. There is no space for it to be win-
win.

~~~
swalsh
I'm super confused about what the point you're trying to convey here is... but
I'll try to comment from what I can understand of it.

When you say "There is no good reason to hire a contractor", I'd disagree.
There are a few excellent business reasons to do so. The first is you simply
don't have that expertise in-house. The second is you have the expertise, but
your resources are on other priorities.

Hiring an outside firm can be a quick way to gain an asset with the custom
features not available on the market with off the shelf software. Many
companies do this custom contracting, and they do it successfully. My own
experience is with a company that has done it successfully. Your own
experience would appear to be with a firm that has been unsuccessful. There
are so many factors that go into the success of a project, and your firm may
not be organized in a way to allow you to be successful. There's nothing
inherent to contracting itself that leads to failure.

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anovikov
No, hiring a contractor is OK. When you know who you hire, that this is a real
person, and he does not outsource to Indians, and he's not a hidden company.

Firm that has been unsuccessful - problem is, most of these firms were and are
quite successful. Their clients aren't.

PS: maybe i am just too burnt out and trying to prove myself that leaving
custom development is a good idea.

~~~
swalsh
I 100% recommend leaving. It does not sound like you're in a healthy company.
I'm not sure how senior you are, but obtaining some experience with a good
quality company that knows how to build a successful project will be a huge
benefit to you in terms of career, and just general cynicism.

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nikcub
Interesting that the Gates Foundation have a former Saama employee co-
operating with them:

> For example, according to CW1, a Big Data/Analytics Lead, a certain segment
> of the Saama’s sales force involved in setting up the scope and pricing of
> projects routinely fails to involve the company’s delivery teams to
> determine whether what had been represented to customers can actually be
> delivered. CW1 describes these individuals as high-level employees who are
> “running the show.” 26.

> CW1 further explained that these sales employees commit Saama to projects
> without knowing whether they are feasible and that, as a result, “a lot of
> bizarre situations” emerge, including “bad deliverables.”

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amelius
> Gates Foundation sues Saama, billed $2.8M and built ‘nothing of value in
> return’

Please insert "which" in the title after the comma; otherwise it makes little
sense.

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jmkni
Doing some quick Google-fu, they seem to have removed any mention of working
with the Gates foundation from their website -
[https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=site%3Asaama.com+%22gates%...](https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=site%3Asaama.com+%22gates%22&oq=site%3Asaama.com+%22gates%22&gs_l=psy-
ab.3...12569.17733.0.17827.16.16.0.0.0.0.136.1415.12j4.16.0....0...1.1.64.psy-
ab..2.6.594...0j46j0i67k1j0i10i67k1j0i131k1j0i46k1.0.MQQGLSNtyp0)

There are still results on Google, but they either 404 or just have the _Gates
Foundation_ part removed!

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everdev
It sounds like a bad situation, but at the same time if someone stopped your
progress it would be easy to make a claim like 90% of the code "doesn't work".
I'd find it much more compelling if they said "after paying the first
installment, they only delivered 10% of the scope a year late"

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gondo
"The Gates Foundation terminated the contract in February 2017, after more
than 18 months, with Saama close to a year behind schedule."

they were almost a year behind a schedule. that is not the case of "stopped
your progress", they had no progress to be stopped

~~~
everdev
Why did they keep paying?

