
GitHub banned all Iranian users. Our accounts are restricted. Please support us - erfaniaa
https://github.com/1995parham/github-do-not-ban-us
======
mtmail
Recent discussion "GitHub and Trade Controls"
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20526039](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20526039)
and "My GitHub account has been restricted due to US sanctions as I live in
Crimea"
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20531039](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20531039)
And related "How is it like to be a dev in Iran"
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20493699](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20493699)

> let us download our private repositories and also make them public (setting
> control).

Seems reasonable.

> change their restriction policies to not limiting users based on their
> Nationality.

I don't see this happening. It's US law and github (Microsoft) is bound by it.
Maybe a competitor will use it to their advantage and offer

> announce their decision publicly and apologize for making this situation
> (like what slack did before in the same situation: [https://slackhq.com/an-
> apology-and-an-update](https://slackhq.com/an-apology-and-an-update)).

I can see how the PR team will issue a careful worded letter or blog post. It
will say "we regret the situation" but I doubt be an apology.

~~~
JBiserkov
>It's US law and GitHub (Microsoft) is bound by it.

That seems like a terrible situation. What if tomorrow there's a US law that
<insert ridiculous thing which "everybody" says won't happen until the day it
happens>

Maybe they should fork into GitHub US, GitHub EU and so on.

~~~
yub
If the law is believed to be unconstitutional, a US company can fight it in
court. Otherwise, the company is required to comply with all laws applicable
in the jurisdictions they operate. If there is a conflict, the US law has
highest authority.

In this case, if GitHub EU is owned by Microsoft, a US company, GitHub EU
still must follow US rules. On the flip side, while GitHub EU must follow
GDPR, GitHub US would not be required to do so.

~~~
sebazzz
Are you sure? Isn't the point of Azure in Ireland that the US government won't
be able to request data under the patriot act?

~~~
yub
Nope, the point of Azure in Ireland is to increase availability and decrease
latency for EU clients. Microsoft challenged a warrant in 2013 to hand over
emails stored in Ireland, but the SCOTUS vacated the rulings since it was moot
by the CLOUD act of 2018, which allows the government to get data from US
companies, no matter where the data physically is.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Corp._v._United_St...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Corp._v._United_States)

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act)

~~~
def_true_false
Huh. Azure used to have a special region in Germany (joint operation with
Deutsche Telekom) but it seems they've killed it last year.

------
mutt2016
Microsoft banned all Iranian users. And crimea if I recall correctly.

Financial support of open source is a nice thing, but folding open source into
the world of US political choas seems so wrong.

I for one will be moving my projects elsewhere. Not sure where yet, probably a
bitbucket server.

~~~
lwhalen
Gitlab, IMHO, is the gold-standard for self-hosted Git data, CI/CD, Issue-
tracking, etc (IMHO, at least). You can use their (US-based, IIRC) hosted
solution, or download their Omnibus package and get a self-hosted instance
running in less than an afternoon.

------
rvz
This is well within GitHub's Account ToS in Section B 3.6. [0] so all GitHub
users who are part of the US sanctioned countries list [1] are banned from
having an account. Since Microsoft/GitHub are all US based companies, they
must comply with US export laws and I'm afraid not even GH/Microsoft staff can
intervene in this.

I don't know what to think about this 'message to GitHub' since they can't do
anything about this, but I think that migrating off of GitHub and lessening or
completely removing our dependence on the service is probably better for those
developers and for open-source in general.

[0] [https://help.github.com/en/articles/github-terms-of-
service#...](https://help.github.com/en/articles/github-terms-of-
service#3-account-requirements)

[1] [https://help.github.com/en/articles/github-and-trade-
control...](https://help.github.com/en/articles/github-and-trade-controls#on-
which-countries-and-territories-are-us-government-sanctions-applied)

------
antoinevg
Looks like it's time to migrate the rest of my stuff off US-based hosts.

Today Iran, tomorrow who knows?

Far easier to take a couple days to move my stuff now than having to do it
under duress in a year or two.

~~~
mc32
They only block really antagonistic regimes which don’t comply with UN and
other international sanctions. It has to be a really rogue regime that
threatens regional or world peace.

~~~
markovbot
For now. There is absolutely no reason to suspect that won't change in the
future.

~~~
jaredklewis
Well if the future is just a big black box, why is it reasonable to move to
hosts outside the US?

If current conditions are not a good predictor for future conditions, isn't it
equally likely that other countries (same as the US), could change in the
future to sanction other countries and restrict online services operated
there?

------
peter_d_sherman
The Fifth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution:

"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime,
unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising
in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time
of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence
to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any
criminal case to be a witness against himself, _nor be deprived of life,
liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property
be taken for public use, without just compensation._ "

(Property includes intellectual property, such as computer code.)

(Due Process includes (but is not limited to) _Trial by a Jury of one 's
peers_...)

~~~
berbec
I love the US constitution as much as the next guy, but isn't it a bit of a
stretch to apply this section to a non-citizen not even located in the States?

~~~
Brian_K_White
It does say "no person". But "due process" can mean anything.

~~~
berbec
Would you contend the US constitution applies to someone living in Finland,
who is a citizen of Greece born in Norway?

~~~
peter_d_sherman
I would submit that someone living in Finland, who is a citizen of Greece,
born in Norway, is not contractually obligated by the U.S. Constitution,
unless they accept it in some way or other, and if so, that acceptance may be
in conflict with other contracts (such as other citizenships) that they may
have accepted prior.

So no, probably not.

On the other hand, I would presume that anyone who works for the U.S.
Government has accepted the U.S. Constitution, either explicitly (by Oath)
and/or implicitly (by the act of working for the U.S. Government).

Why is this important?

Well, see, if those people are in charge of creating/enforcing sanctions, they
are also contractually obligated to do so while _NOT BREAKING THEIR
CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATION TO UPHOLD EACH AND EVERY ASPECT OF THE CONSTITUTION_.

One of the things that The Constitution says (above) is that people (all
people by the way, not just some of a specific nationality, and not just those
that have accepted the Constitution) are _NOT_ to be deprived of their
property _without Due Process_ (which includes but is not limited to a Trial
By a Jury of one's peers).

So... you do the math.

------
onyva
Why are these people assuming GitHub is some sort of an open source authority.
Is it so difficult to understand it’s a company that hosts free and open
source projects like any other service? The ignorance is just baffling.

~~~
akrulino
Why would you call it either ignorant or baffling? Do you expect Iranian users
to have a deep understanding of American export laws and the political
intricacies that might follow from Microsoft's acquisition?

This is an completely understandable reaction regarding Github's block against
Iranian accounts. Github as been around for over 10 years, and this never
happened before.

~~~
edejong
Github owned by Github. But this is something different. It is Github owned by
Microsoft. Acquisitions, in general, do not end well for the established user-
base.

Suggestion: move you repositories! Host your own repositories! Use something
different, like Gerrit, to spice up your development! Take matters in your own
hand! Own your data, own your compute!

~~~
sanderjd
Is there something about this that I've missed that has something to do with
the Microsoft acquisition? The same laws would have governed GitHub if they
hadn't been acquired.

~~~
onyva
From an Open Source developer point of view, yes, of course. Open Source
projects should not be hosted with them. Period. It completely betrays the
spirit of the licenses the code is released under, which guarantees access to
anyone, regardless of political, religious, etc.

------
gerty
Did GitHub try to fight this in courts? As with Slack, why does it just happen
out of the blue? Sanctions on Iran have been there for at least a year,
sanctions on Crimea since 2014 - so why now?

------
AdmiralAsshat
So where is GitLab hosted? Would they be under the same restriction?

~~~
markovbot
GitLab.com is hosted in the US. The GitLab on prem software can be hosted
wherever the hell you want

~~~
saghm
Can you get GitLab on-prem if you're in a sanctioned country though, or is
GitLab also not allowed to let you download it if that's where you're located?

~~~
seba_dos1
Since at its core it's free software, you can download it from wherever you
want.

~~~
justaj
But since US companies are forced to geo-restrict, how can you verify that the
(free) software you've downloaded, is actually the free software offered by
those companies?

~~~
seba_dos1
With their signatures, commit hashes and distribution networks you trust (such
as distro maintainers, for instance).

You most likely already do that without any sanctions that affect you.

------
nullwasamistake
Iran is under US sanctions, I wouldn't expect Iranians to have access to
services from any US company.

It sucks, but that's the whole point of sanctions.

~~~
bijant
So there should be no protest then ? Of course it is the point of sanctions.
But this is also why sanctions are wrong. As Ron Paul repeatedly said,
sanctions are akin to war. Shouldn‘t one protest the bombing of cities because
„that‘s the whole point of war“

~~~
nullwasamistake
There's no way to punish a government without punishing the country. The
sanctions are not on the people themselves, for instance Iranians can and do
visit the US.

Iranians and US citizens should protest against their governments causing this
political situation. From my limited research, neither party is innocent.
Bothering GitHub doesn't have a purpose, they are only blocking Iranians to
comply with laws.

------
petercooper
This is the point of sanctions. If you can still provide goods and services to
sanctioned countries, they're not really sanctions.

------
nbanks
I don't understand why this was done suddenly. Warning Iranians that there
account will be blocked next month and offering read-only access in the
meantime would be much more reasonable. I'd expect legal action to impose the
ban would likely take at least this long. I'm glad git is a distributed
system, and hope no one lost any information.

------
jimmystar
I think the only solution is to move open source communities to a more neutral
country. Unfortunately, the US as it stands right now, is getting a less
suitable place for international organizations day by day

------
rmbeard
They can alway use this [https://coding.net/](https://coding.net/) yes, I know
there is a minor problem of the language.

------
imhoguy
Git was meant to be distributed, however convenience usually wins thus
centralization case again. Hints: git-issues, git-remote-ipfs, gitea and some
mirroring via VPNs.

------
nvizo
Are all U.S. based companies required to prevent Iranian users by IP address?
Would this be true for social media apps like Twitter as well?

------
bijant
As someone of Iranian Heritage, even though I‘ve never been to Iran, because
my Father fled the country after beeing sentenced to death twice, for fighting
the Mullah Regime, the Ignorance and total lack of emphaty for Iranian Devs
and Open-Source contributors displayed in this thread is shocking to me.
People who have nothing to do with politics and are already suffering under
crippling economic sanctions as well under their own government are apparently
not considered to be part of the „community“. Giving them the „helpful“ advise
to „fight“ their government even though there is currently no active
opposition in Iran and every increase in tensions is making the majority of
the population stand more firmly behind their government is just insane.

Can‘t you see that the people asking for support are not „enemies of america“
but instead people who consider the Trump administrations policies to be an
abberation, non-representative of the will of the american people, who they
consider to be their friends and Open-Source-Community Brothers ?

------
tyingq
This is incredibly dumb. Hopefully some GitHub exec intervenes.

Edit: Happy to take the karma hit. Stupid is stupid, regardless of
jurisdiction and consequences.

~~~
nwah1
Why would an exec intentionally violate US law for this?

~~~
jMyles
Because it's the right thing to do and MS has the power to do it.

~~~
sanderjd
In what way do they have that power? Do you just mean in the way that anyone
has the power to break laws and face the consequences, or something else?

~~~
jMyles
Microsoft is not untouchable by any means, but, probably more than any company
in the world right now, they have the power to gain clarity on these sanctions
(and possibly also the EAR issue).

Microsoft has obviously turned a corner recently into dramatic support for
open source collaboration. They're pushing VSCode. They bought github. They
support linux. None of us will be surprised to hear that they're seeking to
buy StackExchange or Discord soon.

I'm saying: if these are their true colors, then they mount a full-throated
resistance to this nonsense. They have the legal team, the technical talent,
and the political connections to do so.

Start by refusing to take down Github Pages of nationals of sanctioned
countries and refusing to disappear repositories maintained by the same,
absent a specific court order. Then, challenge it in court.

Will the US Government have the gall to go to Seattle and cuff somebody over
this? If they do, it will be a major international incident and rallying cry,
and that person (and Microsoft) will look internationally heroic.

------
misingnoglic
These sanctions are immoral.

------
tomohawk
Russia invades and takes over Crimea (again). This has repercussions for the
people living there, many of whom are displacing those who lived there before.

Iran threatens to nuke other countries as soon as they can develop the nukes.
They are in the process of trying to take over the whole middle ease, fighting
in Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, etc. This has repercussions for the people
living there.

------
badtakemaybe
The US is not going to lift these restrictions. Why would they? If you live in
these terrible places, I’m sorry, but you need to start fighting at home. I
don’t know enough about your specific situations or what level of action you
should take, but everything from peaceful protest to armed rebellion are
options. Yes, you might have to die. You might be killed just for peaceful
protest or if you’re government suspects you might be “trouble.” This is your
burden, but liberty is worth it.

~~~
danogentili
And by what logic exactly does the US have the right to "push for freedom" in
foreign countries?

Why do people from such countries have to doubly suffer, because not one but
two governments are fucking them up?

~~~
badtakemaybe
Yes, it sucks, but they do have to doubly suffer. Do you think that giving
them access to GitHub is going to make them suffer less?

BTW you're literally advocating against freedom.

