

I bought something from a Best Buy vending machine, and it didn't go so well. - technologizer
http://techland.time.com/2012/04/19/i-bought-something-from-a-best-buy-vending-machine-and-it-didnt-go-so-well/

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iends
As an aside that I'm probably going to get down voted for...

I've always seen store returns as an ethical issue. If at the time of purchase
I have full information about the product, I see it as unethical to change my
mind a few days latter simply because of buyers remorse. One of the examples
given in the article mentions the author returned a playstation after playing
it for a few days. I don't see how this is a reasonable return, and it cost
the store money all because the buyer was fickle.

The main story from the article is a bit different, as the user bought the
case expecting X and got Y. I have no problem with returns of this nature. A
reasonably informed consumer would not expect there to be two products from
the same company, with the same name just only sold at different locations.

I'd probably call up AMEX and cancel the charge.

~~~
karamazov
Store returns are not an ethical issue, but a result of market forces. The
more lenient a store is with its return policy, the happier its customers will
be, and the more money they'll be inclined to spend there.

For example, managers often have the discretion to extend the duration of
stated policies; in my experience, they're happy to do so if it'll please the
customer. This costs the stores some money, but the people in charge keep the
policies in place, so they must have judged them a net win to their business.
I'm happy to take advantage of the convenience it offers me; in fact, I'm more
likely to shop at a store with a lax return policy, and likely to buy more, as
I know I can return it later if I don't like it. Presumably, it's this
tradeoff that the store owners are after.

~~~
iends
I understand why it makes good business sense for a company to offer a good
return policy, but that is different from me as a consumer buying things on
impulse and then returning them a few days later when I regret my decisions.

~~~
karamazov
So, you view this as a bad habit, rather than an ethical dilemma.

~~~
iends
No, I see it as unethical decision making.

~~~
karamazov
What about it, exactly, is unethical? What about the action, if the store
owner is fine with it, makes it intrinsically wrong?

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warpspeed
The vending machine saves money on staffing at the expense of the customer
being able to examine or ask questions about what they're purchasing. It would
make sense actually to have an even better return policy than the brick and
mortar stores to make up for this. Best Buy wants to have their cake and eat
it too.

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drsim
So they're merely 'Best Buy' branded. If I buy something from your company I
expect to return it to any of your outlets, including if I've purchased
online.

That's why I love Collect+ so much. <http://www.collectplus.co.uk/merchants>

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pelemele
Best Buy is just a test center for Amazon - a lot of people come in just to
see and touch stuff before buying it from Amazon. I saw a guy checking a
headphones in BB and immediately buying it from Amazon on the spot from his
phone.

~~~
LargeWu
I hear this all the time from Best Buy sympathizers. The question I don't hear
getting asked is "Why are they then buying from Amazon, and not bestbuy.com?"
The reason is that Best Buy doesn't want its online business cannibalizing
their in store business, so they keep their online prices in line with b&m. As
a result, they lose the sale in both places.

~~~
daeken
While I'm sure that the prices are a big factor, the only one I care about is:
their site is _fucking terrible_. It's insanely difficult to navigate, the
search is atrocious, and finding out what's available online versus in stores
is just painful.

There are several Best Buys near me, and I'd _love_ to buy stuff online and go
run and pick it up when I find that it's available in one of the stores. Every
single time I've tried, I ended up going to Amazon and just getting it the
next day that way.

I don't care about the price, I just want it to _work_.

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dabit
Best Buy's policy makes sense.

I think they are trying to avoid the probably very common scenario where you
forget your headphones for a trip, nothing to worry about, just buy a pair
from the Express machine, return them as soon as you are back home.

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streptomycin
It's not really Best Buy's fault if a company makes two different products
with the same name.

~~~
lesterbuck
>It's not really Best Buy's fault if a company makes two >different products
with the same name.

It sure is in Texas, and probably most other jurisdictions. Under the Texas
Deceptive Trade Practices/Consumer Protection Act, it is considered a "false,
misleading, or deceptive act or practice" to

(3) causing confusion or misunderstanding as to affiliation, connection, or
association with, or certification by, another;

(5) represent that goods or services have sponsorship, approval,
characteristics, ingredients, uses, benefits, or quantities which they do not
have or that a person has a sponsorship, approval, status, affiliation, or
connection which he does not;

and others from the "laundry list" covered by the DTPA. The days of caveat
emptor are over in Texas, and if they don't give you your money back and make
you go to small claims, and you prove your case, you are automatically awarded
treble (triple) damages up to the first $1,000 of damages, plus costs and
attorney fees. Sadly, most people have never heard of this law.

[http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/SOTWDocs/BC/htm/BC.17....](http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/SOTWDocs/BC/htm/BC.17.htm)
<http://www.jtexconsumerlaw.com/V8N2pdf/V8N2deceptive.pdf>

~~~
streptomycin
So if I'm a company, I can tell a store in Texas, "Here is my new product, the
FSA-51", and they sell it as an FSA-51, and then a customer is confused
because I sold another different product also called the FSA-51 to another
store... the store is liable, and I'm not? That's fucked up.

~~~
lesterbuck
I'll be more general for you. If you used to sell an A and now you sell a B
with exactly the same name as A, but different characteristics, you should be
sure that the consumer knows the differences exist. Yeah, that's really fucked
up if you are dishonest or deceptive.

~~~
streptomycin
In my hypothetical, the store isn't being dishonest or deceptive, the
manufacturer is. And in my hypothetical the store didn't previously sell A.
That seems to be basically the scenario Best Buy is in. So I'm not sure what
you're trying to accomplishing with your new hypothetical.

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waqf
Are there no consumer protection laws in your country or state? Or small
claims courts?

(This is the odd thing I find in reports from the U.S. ... usually there are
some such laws, and I have friends who claim to have used them successfully,
but journalists never talk about them.)

~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
You hear about the outliers, not the common cases.

I tried to return a phone I bought at Target when it simply stopped working
two months later. No, I didn't have the manual and box it came in (why the
hell do they think anyone keeps that?) and I had thrown out my receipt long
ago and couldn't remember which credit card I used and I was trying to return
it to a different store than the one I bought it from.

Target took the phone back and gave me a new one without complaint.

It was well outside their return policy (should have some proof of purchase),
and it took a manager to approve it, and someone to manually look through the
stores databases for 2 months back to find my transaction, but they were
professional and polite all the way and never questioned the return.

I don't expect to return stuff often, but I shop at Target a lot in part
because I know I won't get hassled if I need to.

And yes, we do have customer protection laws, but that's a last resort.

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chris_wot
I would never spend $80 on something from a vending machine! For tha amount of
money, you really need to be able to properly see and even touch the thing
your buying. _Caveat emptor_

~~~
pavel_lishin
Does this mean you've never bought an expensive item online?

~~~
ww520
Online vendors need extra level of good customer service to reduce people's
fear on buying expensive stuff, like Amazon's customer service.

~~~
chrislomax
Two things here, 1) I buy things online simply because of the distance selling
act. I have 7 days no questions asked returns policy.

2) Amazon customer service is awesome, I experienced this first hand at xmas
when my little boys 3DS wasn't charging properly, I emailed customer service
to send a new charger and they just sent a whole new device and give me 28
days to return the other one.

That is what I call customer service

~~~
pavel_lishin
You lucky Brits get all the best consumer protection laws. I don't think such
a thing exists in the states, and if it did, I imagine that there would be
some sort of shipping loophole. ("Sorry, your device took 4 days to ship, and
3 days to ship back, you don't get a refund. Oh, and if you want your device
back, please pay for shipping again.")

~~~
chrislomax
It is a great law if used properly. It does however stop my friend from
selling beds and sofa's online from this shop because he is afraid of people
taking advantage of this law. Large shops can swallow the cost but independent
retailers suffer when consumers take the piss and just send stuff back. The
shop can't send it back to the manufacturer and is generally stuck with a sofa
that has been slightly customised in some way by the customer.

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fleitz
Can't return? Don't care. Cancel payment with credit card processor. Problem
solved.

~~~
Simucal
Can you really do this that easily? I remember one time trying to cancel a
payment to a service which failed to provide what they promised and I was
given to a resolution specialist. That specialist said they would refund me
right away but then bank would do an investigation into the transaction. If it
turned out my position wasn't defendable then they would re-apply the charge
to my credit card.

It seems like a store saying that the purchase was made with a clearly stated
return policy would be hard to argue against to your bank.

~~~
fleitz
Did you tell them you were going to move all your banking, mortgage, RRSP,
line of credit and credit cards to another bank because of the poor customer
service and failure to resolve the issue of the chargeback?

I've found that when you come in to your bank to close out all your accounts,
especially with an ATM card/freshly filled out paperwork for another bank they
usually ask if there is anyway they can keep your business. At such times
they've been known to recall that the #1 policy is making money, and they
don't make very much money when your accounts are at another institution.

It's good to move your accounts around every now and then someone's always got
a free iPod or whatever.

~~~
dangrossman
The chargeback resolution policies are set by Visa and MasterCard, not by the
bank. They do not have the option of forcing a chargeback where the store you
shopped at did no wrong. Some bank manager could decide to give you their
money in the form of a statement credit, I suppose...

Either way, switching banks regularly in order to steal electronics from
stores doesn't sound like very ethical advice.

~~~
fleitz
I think the author wanted the device his wife had, he reasonably assumed that
a product with the exact same name would be the same product.

Now he can't return it to get the device he really wanted to buy and
reasonably assumed he would be buying. I don't know whether it's ethical,
perhaps a philosopher can weigh in on that, in the meantime I think the author
wants his cash back and the device returned.

About the iPod I meant the offers the banks make when you open accounts and
move a bill or two and deposit a couple hundred bucks for a month or two.

What are the ethics around the myriad of fees surrounding VISA/MasterCard?
What's the ethics around cutting off wikileaks from funding? What are the
ethics around selling cables at 800% markup using illogical arguments about
digital cables being 'better'?

The world isn't an ethical place my friend.

~~~
dangrossman
> The world isn't an ethical place my friend.

99% of the time, people play by the rules and play fair by each other. If
those things you listed were excuses for lying and cheating your way out of
paying anything you wanted, there would be no modern society; it'd be chaos.

People that act as you described (who at any little upset, immediately turn to
threatening the business with everything under the sun.. and in this case, are
threatening a business that has nothing to do with the kiosk the purchase was
made at) really grind my gears. Luckily, I've only encountered a few of the
type out of tens of thousands of customers.

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brokentone
Well at least he's got a platform to probably get a refund, as for the rest of
the world who doesn't write for Time...

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infinitivium
This article tries to pin the culprit here as a Best Buy vending machine
problem. His problem is at most a vending machine problem, and really just his
own mistake. Why would you buy something from a vending machine that is inside
a package you can't see inside?

He lampoons Best Buy over a personal mistake.

~~~
nimblegorilla
His "mistake" was assuming there would be a reasonable return policy with Best
Buy due to the machine's Best Buy branding. People buy products inside
packages all the time and assume they can return them if the packaging is
misleading.

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rhizome
Speaking of Best Buy, I didn't read the article due to Time's instant full-
pager for Citibank. WTF kind of experience is that?

~~~
EvilTerran
_WTF kind of experience is that?_

I'd call that a "time to install an ad/scriptblocker" kind of experience. I
(w/ NoScript) had no idea there was an ad overlay 'til I reached your post.

~~~
rhizome
Adblockers on Chrome are terrible as a rule due to architecture.

