
A genocide against the Rohingya may be looming - apsec112
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/09/09/opinion/kristof-nobel-prize-aung-san-suu-kyi-shame.html
======
eimg
Bias on the Rohigya issue - [https://goo.gl/1h4vav](https://goo.gl/1h4vav)

"Though the Rohingya armed groups carried out attacks on security forces and
civilians on 9 October 2016 in which nine policemen were killed and on 25
August 2017 in which 30 police outposts were attacked leading to the death of
10 police officers, one soldier and one immigration officer, the [UN] Special
Rapporteur Lee failed to name the Rohingya armed opposition groups."

------
eimg
The Truth About Myanmar’s Rohingya Issue -
[http://thediplomat.com/2016/03/the-truth-about-myanmars-
rohi...](http://thediplomat.com/2016/03/the-truth-about-myanmars-rohingya-
issue/)

"On all issues, the people of Myanmar are with you. But on the Rohingya issue,
the people will never be with you. What is at the heart of this huge gap
between perspectives of the majority of Burmese and the international
community, and how does this inform making progress on alleviating the genuine
humanitarian crisis facing the Rakhine Muslims in Sittwe?"

"On the other side of the political tension in Rakhine state ... are Rakhine
Buddhists who are genuinely afraid of a (false) Muslim takeover."

"For Aung San Suu Kyi to retain legitimacy where it matters most, it is
understandable that she is not outspoken on an issue that could spark even
more violence."

------
fractallyte
The problem is that application of the term 'genocide' is subject to endless,
recursive, despicable politics at the UN.

I wish there was (forcible) injection of ideas from computer science and
mathematics into politics. An example, for this case: a subset of general
language that could describe a political or humanitarian situation in
unambiguous terms, so that there could be no 'wriggle room' for politicians to
shirk their duties. (Herbert's Dune featured a 'battle' language.)

And signatories to the UN should be compelled to adhere to a set of clearly
defined moral principles, to open the way for action to be taken immediately
against violators.

Sure, I've been criticized many times for such 'simplistic' ideas, but why
shouldn't it be _this simple??_

Here's some other genocidal activity taking place _right now_ : Turkey against
the Kurds, Russia against the Caucasian peoples (Chechnya, Dagestan, etc.).

Incidentally, Stallone's most recent Rambo movie
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rambo_(2008_film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rambo_\(2008_film\)))
addressed the brutality of the Burmese regime. He wasn't afraid to speak out,
9 years ago.

~~~
dwaltrip
> And signatories to the UN should be compelled to adhere to a set of clearly
> defined moral principles, to open the way for action to be taken immediately
> against violators.

You mean like a legal system?

~~~
fractallyte
Exactly!

International Law is great when there's some incident between nation states,
but there's a dire need for _intra_ -national law, where nations _can_ poke
their noses into the affairs of an aggressor government.

Case in point: Russian actions in Chechnya back in the early 2000s. When there
were murmurs of disapproval, Russia basically just told everyone: "Go away,
it's an internal problem." And, shamefully, everyone did just that.

------
pmontra
Interesting: this was number 2 on the home page. Time to read the comments and
it disappeared from the site. It's not in the first 300 posts of HN. It's left
only in the New section (page 2 now) and Search.

Was it flagged by too many people or removed by administrators?

~~~
grzm
Likely both. The "overheated discussion detector" may have kicked in as well.
From the FAQ[0]:

> _How are stories ranked?_

> _The basic algorithm divides points by a power of the time since a story was
> submitted. Comments in comment threads are ranked the same way._

> _Other factors affecting rank include user flags, anti-abuse software,
> software which downweights overheated discussions, and moderator
> intervention._

[0]:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html)

To everyone in discussion here, please ask yourself: what is your goal? It
pays to revisit the guidelines, particularly on hot, divisive topics. Are you
trying to understand the others you're talking with? To express your opinion?
To convince the "other side"? If you're not here for useful, constructive,
civil, and respectful discussion, please just refrain from commenting. As the
mods repeatedly point out, HN is not the place for ideological flamewars.
There are places elsewhere on the internet for that.

~~~
synicalx
> HN is not the place for ideological flamewars

To be fair though, they do happen here all the time and often without any mod
intervention. IMO the problem is most opinions on HN seem to just get stated
as fact and if they happen to be popular opinions then there's no possibility
for them every to be discussed because any contrary opinions just get brigaded
into oblivion.

~~~
grzm
> _To be fair though, they do happen here all the time and often without any
> mod intervention._

Yup. The mods are limited in number and readily admit that they don't see
everything. If you see something particularly egregious, use the Contact link
in the footer to email them and let them know.

> _IMO the problem is most opinions on HN seem to just get stated as fact_

Also very much agree, and often apparently with very little reflection on the
part of the submitter that others may reasonably hold other positions (in that
you can follow their logic even if you think it's flawed or disagree with
it)—and that some things are often just a matter of taste.

> _and if they happen to be popular opinions then there 's no possibility for
> them every to be discussed because any contrary opinions just get brigaded
> into oblivion._

Compound this with the inherent bias everyone has to tend to notice where
their opinion is being attacked and not see where it's being supported,
everyone has a tendency to think that theirs is a minority or attacked
position. It's tough.

None of this negates that goal of reducing the frequency and intensity of
ideological flame wars on HN. One of the reasons I pipe up with comments like
this is that I think it's the community's responsibility as a whole to
encourage this, not just the mods'.

------
calvinbhai
Its not surprising to see this. Its one Nobel Prize Winner (Daw Aung San Suu
Kyi) who is pro Burmese vs an another (Malala) who is pro Rohingyas.

IMO, There's more to it that what seems. Just because someone (like the author
of the article) says "genocide", doesn't mean it is the fact.

------
mirimir
This is indeed horrible. And sadly enough, it's not unique to Myanmar.
Conflict between Hindus/Buddhists and Muslims is pervasive in South and
Southeast Asia.

Also, with global climate change, there will be more refugees from Bangladesh
etc.

------
dharma1
this was a fairly balanced assessment of the situation -
[https://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2017/09/273914.htm](https://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2017/09/273914.htm)

------
rumcajz
Dispatch Blue Helmets?

------
archagon
The amount of pro-genocide comments here, on Reddit, etc. makes me lose my
faith in humanity. Decades down the line, people will wonder how such
nominally reasonable and interconnected people could develop such hateful,
vile opinions.

~~~
aaron695
Currently there are only 18 comments. So how you can say this early thread
represents HN is pretty disgenious.

~~~
archagon
When participating in online discussions, do you not get a sense of what
opinions are OK to express even before the conversation gets going? The
current zeitgeist in many public forums is very “fuck Muslims at all costs”,
and even if those comments do eventually get downvoted, people still feel safe
to post them over and over again. In some forums, they even float to the top
with frightening regularity; see /r/news et al. In other words, I already knew
what I would be seeing as soon as I stepped into this thread.

Even 1% of a population _speaking out in favor of genocide_ is a fucking
travesty.

------
junkculture
Anyone who understand Bengali should listen to the "Rohingya" language. The
similarities are unmistakable, even if you can't understand either.

If they really have been in that area since the 8th century - an assertion
made by Soros' HRW, and mindlessly repeated by the media - you'd expect the
language to diverge a lot more.

They are clearly not native to Myanmar.

Also, it's conveniently forgotten that they triggered the latest spurt of
violence by attacking Buddhist and Hindu citizens.

It's odd how suddenly this is the latest humanitarian crisis.

Nothing to do with oil and gas pipelines, I'm sure. Unlike Syria, Iraq, Libya
and so on.

Call me cynical but I don't see the international community - code for US
interests - caring about people in resource poor regions.

Wonder what would happen if NK suddenly was found to have oil fields ...

~~~
apsec112
That's a very weak argument. Eg., the Catalan language is more closely related
to French than Spanish ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallo-
Romance_languages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallo-Romance_languages)).
But the Catalans are certainly "native" to Spain, in that they've lived within
the current Spanish borders since before Spain existed. And obviously, someone
not being "native" to an area doesn't justify killing or terrorizing them.

~~~
junkculture
Clearly you haven't lived in close proximity to these people.

They trickle in, respect no boundaries and no laws.

Now if they integrated and contributed to the regions culture and economy,
that would go a long way towards their acceptance. But that's against the
tenents of their religion/culture/ideology and it's demonstrated by their
violence.

I'd quote Karl Popper on tolerating the intolerant, but it would be another
"weak argument."

You can't drag people who insist on living by pre-medieval norms into the 21st
century.

~~~
dang
> _You can 't drag people who insist on living by pre-medieval norms_

Please don't use HN to fight ideological, national, or racial battles. That's
definitely not what this site is for:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html).

------
pknerd
Thanks for bringing this up on this forum. There's another conspiracy theory
circulating in the region that the devil Noble winner is doing this on
instructions of US because the area Rohingyans live is enriched with valuable
minerals including Jade stones. The locals are being killed and pushed away
from the area, Americans will land and then keep an eye on China.

China on other hand trying best not to give US or UN a chance enter here by
any excuse.

In all cases, Muslims are being used as bait

~~~
dang
> _the devil Noble winner_

That sort of name-calling is not allowed here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html).

All: please don't use this site to fight ideological, national, or racial
battles.

~~~
pknerd
OK I should call her an angel then to comply with guidelines.

~~~
dang
Sarcastic swipes don't help.

I'm sure you feel strongly about defending your group, but so does everybody
else. That's why we don't allow people to lash out at others when commenting
here—it's a short path from there to internet hell. So if want to keep posting
to HN, please control this impulse. We ask the same of everybody:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html).

~~~
pknerd
> defending your group, but so does everybody else

Alright no issue. Agreed.

PS: I did not defend because of their faith rather because they are my
biological brothers.

