
A swarm of submarine drones will scour the depths for MH370 - privong
https://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21733399-swarm-submarine-drones-will-scour-depths-plane-fantastical-ship
======
aw3c2
The "swarm of submarine drones" being "eight autonomous submarines called
HUGINs, each six metres long, weighing 1,800kg, and containing a titanium
sphere to protect the sensitive electronics therein from the pressure of the
ocean’s depths."

~~~
QAPereo
_In prior cruises in the Atlantic, the firm has, according to Josh Broussard,
its technical director, managed to scan 890 square kilometres a day using six
autonomous submarines. With eight, Mr Broussard thinks that the new mission
will be able to manage 1,200 a day—enough to have covered the original search
area in just 100 days._

Seems up to the job, and while 8 may not be a swarm of bees, I think for deep
sea subs it works as a term.

~~~
twic
Surely it should be a school?

~~~
QAPereo
Yeah actually kidding aside, why not that? Maybe the idea is that robots are
more like insects than fish, but that seems a bit exotic imo.

~~~
hyperpallium
"Drone" comes from worker bees, so "swarm" is at least consistent. But I found
drone misleading here - I thought they'd be airborne. What's the scope of
"drone"?

~~~
Jedd
More importantly, worker bees aren't called drones.

Drones are males - they don't actually do any work, living exclusively to have
sex with a queen in spring. Once mating season is over, they are evicted from
the hive to die - they are unable to fend for themselves. I believe it'd be
rare to find drones as part of a swarm of bees in the normal case of a swarm.

Worker bees are females. I've never heard them called anything other than a
worker bee.

------
computator
This is what a HUGIN submarine drone looks like (from the manufacturer's
site):

[https://www.km.kongsberg.com/ks/web/nokbg0240.nsf/AllWeb/B3F...](https://www.km.kongsberg.com/ks/web/nokbg0240.nsf/AllWeb/B3F87A63D8E419E5C1256A68004E946C?OpenDocument)

~~~
0xdeadbeefbabe
> When you purchase a HUGIN AUV you join the our family.

That's an interesting point of view. I guess it's common with really expensive
things?

~~~
totalZero
In the first world, it's also common with motorcycles, which are one of the
most inexpensive forms of private powered transportation.

The shared traits among motorcycles and an AUV include a more adventurous risk
profile, affinity for mechanical devices, and less ubiquitous uptake than
alternative forms of transportation.

~~~
tesseract
Or even just an expectation that the product is going to require some DIY
maintenance, and mutual support from other users. With, for instance, 3D
printers, this works in inverse proportion to the expense of the purchase...
if you buy a cheap one, you are joining a community - you don't expect it to
be perfect, but tinkering and optimizing is likely part of the attraction in
the first place. If you buy an expensive one, it's most likely because of a
straightforward business need and you're going to rely on the manufacturer for
support like any other product.

------
rubicon33
It would be so cool to build one of these things with a collision detection
system and a nuclear reactor so that it could crawl the entire ocean. Imagine
what it might find. You could potentially become quite wealthy on treasure
hunting expeditions alone I would imagine.

~~~
averagewall
You wouldn't need nuclear. It could surface for solar/wave generation as
needed. That wouldn't necessarily slow it down because the reduced cost would
allow you to have more of them operating simultaneously.

~~~
hartator
It seems way more fun to have a nuclear submarine.

------
ern
_Either way, though, the advance of technology may mean that it is the last
such mystery. As the oceans are watched with ever closer scrutiny, from space
and the depths, it is increasingly difficult for anything to get lost in the
first place._

Have things changed this much since 2014? What would happen if the exact same
scenario happened again (airliner switches off all transponders and veers off
course into an ocean) in 2018?

~~~
jccooper
They haven't changed much yet, but the Iridium Next constellation has hosted
ADS-B payloads (as well as AIS). Sometime in 2018 these will be available
globally, and make it much harder for either ships or planes to be lost
outside the range of land-based receivers.

That wouldn't help intentionally or accidentally disabled transceivers as was
(probably) the case for MH370. That would require space based radar... which
was once but is no longer a DoD project. It'll happen eventually.

------
vzaliva
"Every block of sea floor that the HUGINs map will be examined by three sets
of human eyes."

They could publish the data and crowdsource the review process. Also perhaps
some machine learning techniques could be applied to indentify most
interesting segments to review.

~~~
newman8r
Agreed. putting it on Tomnod would be nice (and they're already interested in
the search for MH370)

------
coding123
Its crazy the amount of money spent on MH370... does anyone know how much it
compares to the payout of the victim's families?

~~~
tim333
Also there's not really much "mystery of MH370." It was almost certainly
suicide/murder by the pilot. Though I guess there's no harm confirming that.

~~~
rurban
No, it was with the same 'almost certainty' an overheating of a battery back
in the load.

~~~
tim333
Ok maybe almost certain is a bit strong but the aircraft maneuvered after
losing contact along a path towards the open ocean pretty similar to one the
captain had practiced on his flight simulator less than a month before. Not
sure how an overheating battery pack would do that.
[http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/07/mh370-pilot-
fle...](http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/07/mh370-pilot-flew-suicide-
route-on-home-simulator.html)

~~~
mathgenius
Cabin filling with smoke, everyone panicking...

------
proee
I wonder what other interesting things they'll discover doing the search.
Surly they've already stumbled upon lots shipwrecks in the search for MH370?

~~~
privong
Here's an article about one: [https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-
news/malaysia-airlines-...](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-
news/malaysia-airlines-searchers-find-sunken-ship-instead-180955256/)

ARCGIS had a fairly detailed visualization of the search and the data. At the
bottom of the page, there are some examples of other things that were found:
[https://geoscience-
au.maps.arcgis.com/apps/Cascade/index.htm...](https://geoscience-
au.maps.arcgis.com/apps/Cascade/index.html?appid=038a72439bfa4d28b3dde81cc6ff3214)

(HN comments for the latter link:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14802105](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14802105))

~~~
anaganisk
Maybe one day they will find captain america

------
the-dude
AFAIK it is MH370, not MA370.

I am Dutch, we had our MH17. I just checked, apparently MAS17/370 is correct
as well.

~~~
privong
> AFAIK it is MH370, not MA370.

Good catch. I think MH370 was more commonly used, so I've edited the title.

------
salty_biscuits
It is so disingenuous to say fugro only used 1 auv in the original search so
this search will be better. Most of the scanning was done with towfish rated
to 6000m using sidescan from three vessels rather than auv's. The article
makes it sound like the original search was done with one auv that couldn't
get to 6000m.

------
stareatgoats
According to amateur debris-finder Blaine Alan Gibson they are looking
(mostly) in the wrong area. Somewhere near Diego Garcia should also be
investigated, based for example on eyewitnesses in Kuda Huvadhoo in the
Maldives. I subscribe to his open mindset; go where the evidence points and
don't lock on to any theories based on scant such:
[http://thehuntformh370.info/content/blaines-independent-
inve...](http://thehuntformh370.info/content/blaines-independent-
investigation)

------
hownottowrite
[http://archive.is/hrHyJ](http://archive.is/hrHyJ)

------
sitkack
So much scientifically important data. I hope this is overlap with previous
surveys for a comparison. Or that they drop some sensor packs or markers for
historical comparison later.

------
boysabr3
It would be super cool if these submarines could be made completely
autonomous.

They could come up to the surface to recharge their solar batteries or maybe
charge them using turbines rotated by the water movements.

They could remotely relay images and data to a publicly accessible services
where they could be crowdsourced for interesting findings.

I think something like this could be useful for more than just the search for
MH370 (oceanography, marine biology, etc.)

~~~
matt4077
I've actually been thinking about this, and, on a small scale, it should be
possibly with almost no budget (i. e. retrofitting an RC model with solar
power, an arduino, GPS/WIFI/Cellular). Some thoughts:

\- Submarines aren't great because solar is your best source for power, and
you don't want to divide each day to "work" and "rest" because you need to
recharge on the surface.

\- Electric propulsion will also require some rather substantial solar setup.

For these reasons, I think either "passive" sensors just following the
currents, or sailing vessels, are better candidates at first.

There's also the "glider" concept, where you fill/empty a ballast tank and
achieve forward momentum by changing depth while having an aerodynamically-
shaped hull. I'm wondering if these could also drag a turbine for electric
power, but I fear that idea is coming dangerously close to breaking the laws
of thermodynamics.

\- Satellite internet is, unfortunately, too expensive for anything beyond
short status codes / coordinates / commands. It's something like 10 cents for
every 80bytes. You'd need to navigate to coastal waters and pick up
cellular/wifi signals to transmit the payloads.

~~~
jpm_sd
My company offers this exact thing as a commercial service: (Solar-powered
Sailing-aaS?) [http://www.saildrone.com](http://www.saildrone.com)

~~~
matt4077
Very cool! If I were US-based, I'd apply for a job :)

------
source99
“no find, no fee”.

That's pretty bold.

~~~
krisoft
My private conspiracy theory (which I don't believe in really): One of the USA
Inteligence services knows exactly where the plan splashed down (either due
underwater acoustic monitoring ala K-129 submarine, or through satellite
monitoring) They can't reveal that information, because that would hint at
their capabilities and methods, so they let the information 'slip' to an
underwater search company. They 'boldly' go searching and in due course
stumble upon the plane. They know their cost is bounded because of the tip-
off, and they really do search, just maybe select a pattern which will be more
'lucky' then other possible patterns could be.

------
Myrmornis
> Seabed Constructor is the most advanced civilian survey vessel on the planet
> today. If its array of technology cannot find MH370, then it is likely that
> nothing will

That sentence seemed gushing and overstated. Presumably a large metal plane
isn't really going anywhere and if these 8 underwater drones don't find it
then if people keep trying they will in the future.

------
perseusprime11
I hope they find MH370. At the very least, it will bring closure to families
who lost their loved ones.

------
mehrdadn
How credible are the conspiracy theories on this? I recall reading about more
than one instance where authorities did not cooperate or even misled or
otherwise actively impeded investigations.

~~~
matt4077
I wasn't following the investigation too closely, but the conspiracy theories
I saw weren't too convincing:

Mostly, they highlighted instances of authorities either correcting previous
mistakes, or withholding information slightly longer than necessary.

Yet it's quite obvious how these two errors are related: If you're eagerly
accused of the former, you'll tend to indulge in the latter.

It's also important to consider that the Indonesian authorities were simply
overburdened by such an investigation, were likely to make all sorts of
mistakes under stress, and had to content with competing interests that were
impossible to satisfy.

Then, this investigation happened to involve dozens of authorities and
companies from different countries, making errors in communications, distrust,
and cultural clashes much more likely than, say, a US-made aircraft crashing
in Colorado.

The debris that was discovered in Australia and Africa seems to, roughly,
validate the initial search efforts. While there may be competing theories
pointing to slightly different areas of the Indian Ocean to be searched,
there's nothing supporting the "real" conspiracy theories that the plane was
diverted to Riad and will be used to start WW III.

~~~
mehrdadn
Oh, right, by conspiracy theories I meant something involving foul play closer
to it being ditched in the ocean, not those theories that claim it was
diverted to somewhere in Asia.

By contradictions I meant the stuff like this [1]. Malaysia got slammed
internationally by governments all over the world for their misleading and
contradictory statements. It was hard for everyone to explain the particulars
away as the being overburdened and stressed. If it had been, I imagine other
governments would have been more understanding of that and not slammed them so
hard.

One particular incident that left me flabbergasted -- but which perhaps could
be explained (though not excused) by miscommunication -- was this one, where I
seem to recall (though I can't find the exact article) that they confirmed the
flaperon found belonged to the plane _before even the French -- who were the
ones doing the analysis -- came to such a conclusion_ [2]:

> On Wednesday, Najib Razak, the Malaysian prime minister, said the flaperon
> that washed up on the French territory in the Indian Ocean, since
> transported to France for analysis, was from the doomed flight. But his
> assertion has not been backed up by the other authorities involved in the
> investigation, and the dissonant stances have infuriated many relatives of
> those on board the plane, who have waited more than 500 days for concrete
> clues into the fates of their loved ones.

> Transport minister Liow Tiong Lai says more possible MH370 debris has been
> sent to France for analysis. “Why the hell do you have one confirm and one
> not?” Sara Weeks, the sister of New Zealander Paul Weeks, who was on board,
> told Associated Press. “Why not wait and get everybody on the same page so
> the families don’t need to go through this turmoil?”

> The claims and counter-claims continued on Thursday when Liow said a team on
> the French territory of Réunion had collected more apparent plane debris.
> The claim was contradicted by French officials, who said no new material in
> the search for MH370 had been turned over to French authorities.

How in the world they could jump to conclusions before the people actually
doing the investigations certainly beats me. I could see it as being a
miscommunication, but this was not a one-off incident, and that got harder and
harder for the international community swallow the more times it occurred. I
recall getting pretty convinced that they were covering up _something_ ,
though I couldn't go farther and speculate on what exactly that might have
been. (When I heard about the misdetected pings I thought perhaps they should
have been looking into the Asia possibility too, but only because they had
already poured so much effort into other dead end that this seemed worth a
shot, not because it seemed otherwise particularly plausible. I dismissed that
idea pretty quickly after they found parts from the plane.)

[1] [http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/china-slams-
malaysi...](http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/china-slams-malaysia-for-
contradictory-information-on-mh370)

[2]
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/06/mh370-search-p...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/06/mh370-search-
plane-window-and-more-debris-found-on-reunion-says-minister)

~~~
mannykannot
> How in the world they could jump to conclusions before the people actually
> doing the investigations certainly beats me. I could see it as being a
> miscommunication, but this was not a one-off incident.

It is probably just human nature. Many people will continue to think and do
what they did before, even after having the error of their ways explained to
them. While you might expect a person in a position of responsibility to act
more responsibly, it also seems possible that such a person might consider
himself to be more competent than average, which would exacerbate the Dunning-
Kruger effect - in this case, thinking his hunch about the debris is as good
as a conclusion by crash investigators.

A false report of more debris being found might be a misunderstanding of the
original find being reported through different channels at different times. An
impulsive person, eager to say something, might not consider that possibility
before making an announcement.

------
eric_h
FYI disabling javascript when loading the page disables the paywall. (It
actually loads the whole page, then removes the article when it figures out
you've reached your article limit)

~~~
booleandilemma
Opening in private browsing mode also seems to work.

------
orvillew
How do we get ahold of Ocean Affinity?

------
agumonkey
Finally some interesting new tech, every country should have a group of
similar things for sea incidents.

------
orvillew
What area? Near Borneo?

------
artur_makly
i thought they were refferring to lookin for the Argentine sub that went
missing more recently.

maybe that one will be next i hope.

------
ape4
Somebody alive knows where it really is.

~~~
m0llusk
That is likely false. If it for any reason nose dived into the ocean at high
speed then there may be no witnesses and most of the material would have
either vaporized or been shredded into fine particles.

------
WalterBright
Makes one wonder just how much money people are willing to spend to find that
plane. Not every mystery is worth unlimited funds to resolve.

~~~
vaughanb
Like search and rescue operations, these are essentially exercises for defence
forces. You can't make opportunities like these.

------
orvillew
What is search area. Near Borneo?

------
exabrial
Slightly off topic, but here's my favorite conspiracy theory about MH370: It
landed Kazakhstan. Interestingly enough, this conspiracy theory was
informative on how satellite pings actually work (whether or not you believe
the theory is a different matter)

[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2967157/Vladimir-
Put...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2967157/Vladimir-Putin-
ordered-Russian-special-ops-steal-MH370-plane-secretly-landed-disused-space-
port-Kazahkstan-expert-claims.html)

It'll be interesting to see what what comes of this effort.

~~~
mehrdadn
Didn't they pick up broken pieces of the plane wings and such from the Indian
ocean?

------
AlexMuir
It astounds me that they wouldn't already have used the best equipment on the
market? I mean, it's the most prominent underwater search of recent decades,
funded by three sovereign states.

My gut feeling is that some people in power do not want this plane found.

~~~
Razengan
As a sibling comment alludes, everyone underestimates how astoundingly vast
Earth's oceans are.

I did too, until I looked out the window on my first daytime flight over the
sea. A seemingly endless stretch of unbroken blue. It was probably the next
best thing to being in space and made me appreciate just how much _water_
there is!

And that's just the surface.

~~~
walrus01
Everyone also grossly underestimates how much it costs per-day to operate a
large offshore services vessel in the open ocean, in terms of
salaries/benefits, fuel, insurance, cost of the ship as a whole relative to
whatever sort of financing paid for it, inmarsat services, food, etc. There's
a reason why submarine cable laying and repair is so expensive...

~~~
gehwartzen
From what I can tell, prior to this latest effort, around $200m dollars have
already been spent looking for this plane.

