
Windows 8 Release Preview ready for download - tnash
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/iso?ocid=W_OFF_W8P_TechCenter_ISO_en-us
======
arihant
I do not understand the skepticism against Windows 8, specially from the
hacker community.

The only reason I do not use a Windows computer (anymore) is because there are
so few ways to build things on it, compared to a Mac. I remember back in the
day when I used Windows exclusively because Visual Studio was the only way to
do build awesome things fast. With Windows 8, MS has brought back those days.
Developing for Metro is absolutely amazing. I have never felt the urge to
write native desktop apps in years until Metro. Not that Apple and Google
didn't try.

Anybody looking at screenshots and making predictions should download the
preview, fire up that Virtualbox, hack together an app and then decide. This
is nothing like ChromeOS, believe me, I am running the 30th May build of
Chromium on my other machine. This is something that sits between iOS-ified
Mac and Web-ified ChromeOS.

~~~
kijin
Developing _for_ Metro might be amazing, but developing _on_ Metro is a non-
starter. After all, Visual Studio is not a Metro app (yet). Since most
"hackers" will spend most of their time on the traditional desktop anyway,
they see little reason to upgrade from Windows 7.

~~~
drivebyacct2
And? No one is saying you should develop in Metro. No one is saying "Avoid
desktop mode". It's there for a reason. It is there for people who _need_
desktop mode, who need true, all-the-time window-ized multi-tasking.

Then there are the people who buy iPads, iPhones, Androids, WP7 and others by
the _millions_. The majority of users do not produce content. Windows 8 is an
effort to bring them an easy to use tablet experience while still allowing
them to be highly productive in a traditional Windows desktop if necessary.

Everyone acts like Windows 8 "breaks Windows". I do not understand this
mentality. It's an additional set of apps, UX/UI and APIs. You're not forced
to use them or even develop for them. But it's very likely that users are
going to embrace Metro Apps for a huge number of reasons (performance [async
apis, etc], battery life, notifications, live tiles, ARM tablets, etc)

Very little incentive to upgrade is understandable, but I can still list
reasons that _I_ will be interested in upping to Win8: (1) upgrading is cheap
($15); (2) Win8 includes the ability to wipe the machine back to "just
installed" clean built in (or can wipe Desktop mode (registry, desktop apps)
and leave data + Metro apps); (3) hackers will want Visual Studio (or else why
is a "hacker" using Windows) and will likely want/need to target Metro apps;
(4) even I like to kick back and mindlessly surf Twitter for an hour in the
evening.

~~~
kijin
The $15 upgrade is only for people who buy a new Win 7 PC between now and the
end of the year. If you already have a PC, it will be more like $100 for the
Professional edition.

Don't get me wrong, I'm trying Win 8 right now and I like certain aspects of
it. I don't think it breaks anything important, either. But when I'm in
desktop mode, the experience doesn't feel all that different from Win 7.
Ribbon in Windows Explorer? I don't care. One-click wipe? I don't think I ever
messed up a Win 7 install. Other changes are rather distracting (oversized
window titles and excessive color saturation in various UI elements) but I
could get used to it. But the bottom line is that it doesn't feel like it's
worth $100, especially since I'm not in the business of making Metro apps.

------
lubos
This OS might be the biggest Microsoft flop ever.

There are just way too many fundamental changes which are not proven to be
actually better.

I would rather see new Metro UI as another full-screen app to see if it can
stand on its own before they go all-in with it. Something similar to what
Microsoft did with Windows 3.10 which was basically another DOS program.

I guess, Microsoft is being run by different folks today.

~~~
jjcm
Disagree. It will be the biggest investment in research Microsoft has placed
in the mainstream market to date. Windows 8 is effectively a research project.
Microsoft wants to know and understand how people will be using different
modalities in their everyday work. Windows 8 will have huge issues, no doubt,
but Microsoft will learn enormous amounts from it. Metro is a smart move -
window chrome is unnecessary, and takes up more space than it should. Moving
to a tighter and more relevant UI will prove beneficial in the long run. It
will also test out some of the more tablet friendly interfaces, and most
importantly Microsoft will learn how and why those fail in the desktop
settings (and how to fix that). These are unknowns right now; Microsoft is
going all in so they can discover them.

That said, Metro dashboard aside, it's a nice OS. If you stay in the desktop
mode it's really just a faster and more stable version of windows 7. I've been
using it as my primary OS for the last few months. The lack of a start menu
will confuse people at first, but the keyboard driven execution of programs
should be a welcomed change for many power users. There will certainly be a
backlash from users, much like there was from Vista. Down the road though, I
can see Windows 9 learning a ton from 8. That's where I see the true value of
Windows 8.

Disclaimer: I work for Microsoft.

~~~
tnash
I like your point about the backlash being like Vista, considering that I
thought Vista was a fine OS. However, I think that was more of a jump sideways
whereas this is more of a jump forwards/backwards. I haven't used it since the
dev preview, but I'm looking forward to putting this on one machine and trying
it out.

I'm hoping for a lot more customization. I don't understand why that's being
taken out of every modern operating system. The biggest thing I dislike about
Windows Phone is that I can't change the tiles to be non-insane colored. I
just want them to be white, dammit! I'm hoping that level of customization is
present in Win 8, but I have a sinking feeling that it will not be.

------
teyc
Windows 8 is an interesting release from a historical standpoint. Microsoft
has been a long proponent of preserving APIs. Just as Windows95 supported DOS,
and WinNT supported Win32 APIs. Windows 8 is a totally different beast. It's a
new API, not even .NET, that's built on an existing OS. As such, it is more
like Android, which is a mobile phone API built on top of Linux.

In many ways, programmers are discouraged from interacting with existing
operating system services. One can't even access database drivers when writing
WinRT programs. Everything is managed via web services.

So MS is not in a position of strength:

1\. It is not a backwards compatible release (by necessity, due to battery
life requirements)

2\. It will have to create a market - i.e. ecosystem of developers and
consumers

3\. It has lackluster record - Windows Phone has little market share, despite
being a solid OS

4\. It has burned a lot of bridges and karma by abandoning their ethos of
supporting old APIs. e.g. Silverlight, Windows Phone 7.5

This means that developers who take a risk with Windows 8 will find that if it
tanks, they do not expect the APIs to be maintained in the future. Despite MS
baking these WinRT APIs into Windows 8, they represent such a departure from
desktop models that you couldn't bring those investments back to the desktop
without significant work.

Meanwhile, the iPads are making deep inroads into enterprises and schools.
Even if aficionados BYOD use Windows 8, MS will have to play underdogs from
now on.

The only problem is - MS no longer know how to act like one.

My prediction? Lackluster adoption, massive layoffs just like HP in the next
20 months.

~~~
compteHN
> Windows 8 is a totally different beast. It's a new API, not even .NET,
> that's built on an existing OS. As such, it is more like Android, which is a
> mobile phone API built on top of Linux.

You need to make a distinction between WOA (Windows RT) and Windows 8 on x86.
Windows RT is a different beast yes in that developers will only have access
to the WinRT API, but no restrictions are in place on the x86 version of
Windows 8. Developers still have access to the Win32 API and are NOT
discouraged to use it.

~~~
teyc
The problem I see is that the WinRT API sits side by side with Win32. There is
no intermixing.

You'd either program to one or the other. Sure you can run WinRT on the
desktop. WinRT is so sandboxed it is worse than virtualizing XP on Windows 7.
From a political standpoint, I can see the Windows 8 server people sneering at
the team from Windows Mobile who have managed to sneak their toy OS into a
heavy duty operating system. They are putting up with these kids for a while,
but they will be booted out at the first sign of failure.

I see this as a hedged bet. If WinRT ends up as a market failure, they'll
potentially abandon WinRT. After all, it will be like ditching a bit of
Windows Mobile code in a proper OS. The whole thing is so cut down that WinRT
is best thought of as a presentation layer and little else.

------
powertower
I'll tell you why this OS will be the biggest Microsoft success ever...

Most consumers can be clueless, attention deficient, instant-gratification
seeking, work/knowledge averse ... or can just want something simple.

A lot don't even understand the concept of the file-system (let alone the
other 95% of Windows).

A lot can't even download a picture from a camera's memory card and place it
into the proper folder after you show them how to do it 12 times over 3
months.

And most can't be expected to do anything that requires more than 1 or 2 easy
steps (whether they can but don't want to, or just can't).

Metro re-invents the way the average consumer experiences and works with
Windows to the point that even the village idiot could do something useful
with this OS.

Why do you think the iPad was such a success, and where do you think 95% of
its users are coming from?! The dusty PC running Windows.

With Metor, Microsoft will keep dominating the home desktop market (as they do
now), prevent the outflow of users, and introduce themself in a very serious
way in the tablet and phone market.

~~~
vibrunazo
Why exactly do you think it's easier to use when it's so different from theyre
used to?

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4boTbv9_nU>

~~~
namm
the final version will include some self-learning demo/video upon initial
startup. so users will hopefully be less clueless than the video here. i think
the battle is more with whether microsoft can convince users to upgrade/buy.
most people do not like big change unless you prove them how the chance is for
the better.

~~~
spullara
Right, because everyone watches those videos.

------
megaman821
I really don't understand what all the complaining is about. For most desktop
users Microsoft took away the start button and added a new app launcher. The
rest of the OS functions the same or better.

~~~
webXL
They didn't _need_ to take away the start button, and it's going frustrate _a
lot_ of users. See: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4boTbv9_nU>

I've been running the preview in a VM, and getting back to the launcher
frustrated me so much I had to install a small utility made by Stardock that
makes a fake start button that takes you to the launcher:
<http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/>.

I'm a Mac guy, but my job requires me to be in Windows half the time. I hope
they take a hint from Stardock and that video and put the start button back
in.

~~~
megaman821
It seems that the only people who click the start button are people who don't
use Windows all the time. Commonly used apps go in the launch bar and
infrequently launched apps are found by hitting the Windows key and typing the
name. Nothing in Windows 8 changes that workflow for me.

~~~
DrJokepu
I think your theory is wrong. Specifically, I use Windows for work all the
time (due to Visual Studio) and I never do the typing thing. I can't even
remember the name of the applications I don't use often, but I remember the
icon so that's what I look for. I really don't think I'm alone with that.

~~~
kytmizuno
If you don't use the application often, then you're probably not hunting for
it in the Start Menu often and thus not going to be wasting your time in the
new Start Screen often. For the very few times you do need to find the
application, I'm sure the Start Screen will make whatever you're looking for
discoverable.

------
richbradshaw
The new non-Aero interface is interesting, I find it interesting how they are
very delibaretly going in the opposite direction to Apple in their
interfaces... Don't like the Calendar app - try Windows 8!

~~~
billpatrianakos
It's easy to assume Microsoft is basing decisions on what Apple is doing but I
don't think Apple's design choices have any bearing on the new Windows8
interface. I can definitely see why it's easy to assume the connection because
of Microsoft's "embrace and extend" motto and their one-step-behind lime of
products like Zune, Windows Phone, etc. This time I really think they're
thinking independently. It seems as though they've taken note of all the
criticisms of Aero and tweaked it to be better and unique to Microsoft. If
they've taken cues from anywhere I think it's Google and the minimalist web in
general. The new UI chrome is very reminiscent of Google's design across all
their products. It's very minimal, functional, and focuses more on readability
and utility than what they've come up with n the past. Metro itself is a very
cool idea that I really haven't seen from their competitors in any form.

I think you're right that they're deliberately going in a certain direction
but I don't think Apple is playing as big a role in that decision as you
imply. Despite Apple's growth and popularity Microsoft is still by far the
biggest player in the OS market. Because of that I would doubt that they're as
concerned with what Apple is doing on the desktop front and more interested in
taking cues from them in the mobile device space.

I'm actually a huge Apple fanboy but I have to say the new Windows desktop is
really beautiful! I haven't used a PC in years but I'd be happy to look at the
New Windows non-Metro desktop all day. Microsoft is still making a lot of
mistakes in cluttering their UI with buttons and ribbons and the like but
hopefully the next step is to continue their momentum with the new Windows8 UI
chrome and tackle the button/ribbon mess next.

~~~
richbradshaw
Yeah, don't get me wrong, I do like the overall feel of Metro. Bearing in mind
that this is in part a tablet OS, it is directly in competition with iOS,
which has a very glossy, gradient rich, often skeuomorphic design. This is the
the antithesis of that. Squares, rectangles, block colour etc.

------
dhawalhs
I have been using Windows 8 Consumer Preview (and Developer Preview before
that) as my primary OS and I love it. I use Windows 8 like Windows 7. All the
applications that I use are pinned to the taskbar and I barely enter Metro UI.
The only reason I need enter Metro occasionally is to search for apps, files
and/or settings. Doing all that in one place without lifting my hand from the
keyboard can be handy.

------
mtgx
I think at best it will have moderate success, and at worst it will be a
disaster bigger than Vista. There's no way it can be the "most successful
ever", for 3 reasons:

1) Windows 7 has that title covered, because people waited for something like
it for 10 years, and were very frustrated with both XP and Vista. It also came
at a time when there was still no competition in sight for Microsoft. There
was a real, painful need for Windows 7. There is no such thing for Windows 8.
Plus it arrives at a time when people just got Windows 7 and they are happy
with it.

2) Windows 8 does a dramatic change over previous Windows versions, which
means most users are much less likely to be interested in it because most
users don't like change, and Windows 8 would have to follow the technology
product life cycle all over again (innovators -> early adopters -> early
majority, etc.). So it has to actually convince people to use Windows 8 over
anything else out there, including Windows 7.

3) People are less likely now to be interested in a Windows machine. You have
Macs which are getting increasingly more popular (at least in US). You have
iPads and Android devices. You even have Ubuntu and Linux Mint which are
starting to leak a bit into the mainstream. The point is, the competition
landscape is a lot less friendly to Microsoft right now than it was for
previous versions over the past 17 years.

------
WrkInProgress
Here's an official video/ad that highlights some of the ways people will use
Windows 8 in Microsoft's eyes.

<http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/release-preview>

~~~
emehrkay
That looks pretty cool. I wonder how easy its going to be for people to
discover the gestures because they seem to be so different than Android/ios.
That swipe from the edge is going to be a hard one to learn/commit to muscle
memory.

it looked like that kid wasnt really doing that stuff on his screen.

~~~
dpark
Why is "swipe from edge" hard to learn? This is one of my favorite things
about Windows 8, because in hindsight it's so obvious.

Disclaimer: MSFT employee

~~~
emehrkay
I doubt that the average android/ios user even attempt that gesture. Is what
Im saying.

I feel that doing all of the touch gestures with a mouse is a bit much,
especially pull down from top to close.

I still havent seen a better solution to multitasking/app management than
webos.

~~~
dpark
Discoverability is a much different issue than learnability. I don't know how
discoverable edge swiping is, but it seems really easy to learn.

I doubt that discoverability is going to be a major issue, though, because
edge swiping will get a lot of exposure through ads, and through any in-store
use as well. It's such core functionality that every Windows 8 touch user will
have to learn it in the first 2 minutes. If nothing else, they'll turn to the
person next to them and say "how do I get back to the start screen"?

As for closing metro apps, there's not really any need in general. Just go
back to the start screen. You can also close apps in the app switcher on the
left, but the current app isn't in there if I recall correctly, and it's still
not necessary in general.

------
jiggy2011
I wonder what will happen with the server version, surely that can't become
Metro too?

~~~
luminarious
It's using Metro as well.. [http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/31/microsoft-outs-
windows-se...](http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/31/microsoft-outs-windows-
server-2012-release-candidate/)

------
debacle
I have to say, they've made a ton of improvements since the last release. I'm
still not super happy with it (and it still feels like Vista) but it's
definitely taken many steps ahead.

I still don't think anyone is going to be using the metro menu. It's just not
what people want from Windows.

Edit: Wait, nevermind, I got it to crash within fifteen minutes. Apparently if
you remove a tile from metro while moving it to a new column it will hang the
metro menu and break the windows key (at least for me).

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
So much for a release preview...

~~~
recoiledsnake
Isn't the whole point of a preview that users run it and find and report
errors? Otherwise why not just go RTM?

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
That's true, although that seems like a pretty big bug.

------
kijin
Can anyone tell when this preview expires? I can't seem to find that
information in the FAQ.

~~~
moystard
Someone needs to install it and execute the process described in this article
<http://techdows.com/2012/03/windows-8-beta-expiry-date.html> to figure it
out.

------
methodin
Have they addressed the need to explain how to do something yet (getting to
desktop or back to metro view)? That's really the biggest killer on any app
that would theoretically be adopted by the masses.

~~~
petitmiam
I think you're spot on. It took me awhile to figure out what was what, and I'm
not sure everyone has as much patience as me.

------
Achshar
It's seems to be mentioned no where but what is the difference b/w consumer
preview and this? Should i upgrade or will it automatically be updated to RP?

------
pooriaazimi
32-bit: 2.5 GB, 64-bit: 3.3GB

Why?!

~~~
sveiss
The 64-bit ISO will include copies of most of the 32-bit binaries for
compatibility.

~~~
pooriaazimi
Thanks. That makes sense.

------
factorialboy
So if I understand corrently it's Metro vs. Chrome OS?

~~~
bonzoesc
This is computers, not the Highlander. There's no "vs." except for individual
purchasers' decisions.

