

EA's Origin may be glorified spyware, causes mass upset - X4
http://www.destructoid.com/ea-s-origin-may-be-glorified-spyware-causes-mass-upset-209745.phtml
It's also against german law. The software pictures, cell phone backups etc. and more and reportedly uploads the information to EA.<p>Luckily EA didn't arrive on Linux yet :)
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click170
This sounds like the kind of thing that some MBA came up with;

Suit: "And in the Terms of Service, add some note so that we can use their
personal info for marketing."

Cubicle-ee: "That's a little sleezy and sounds like it may backfire.."

Suit: "Nonsense, nobody reads the ToS and everybody is data mining people's
personal info these days, they can't get mad at us without getting mad at
everyone else too. Look at Google."

~~~
ryanhuff
Why don't you throw lawyers under the bus while you are at it. After all, we
know that everybody but coders are looking to screw the customer.

~~~
outworlder
Because in most companies, it is the "coders" who are in charge, right?

~~~
dlikhten
flame/troll bait aside... This was most definitely intentional. EA has
demonstrated a lack of giving a shit about customers since Spore and even
before that. Spore was a catalyst. They prey on ignorance of users. The truth
is by now someone is reading the TOS, and posting about it. The problem is
that not everyone reads those posts.

And kids? They don't care about their "privacy" its "gimme mah
game!!@?!@!@!@!#%$!" if you disagree with that statement deal with a hormone
filled teenager.

Of course those kids who don't get the game will naturally look for hacked
alternatives. And this is where EA's lack of understanding of the real world
will bite them in the ass.

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bstar77
I know this is off topic, but it really burns me up to see the once mighty
Origin Systems relegated to this.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_Systems>

~~~
bonzoesc
They got bought out nineteen years ago; it's not the "once mighty Origin
Systems," it's a trademark that EA owns becoming attached to a product.

~~~
astrodust
Brand Necrophilia.

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ukdm
This was posted back in August, hasn't EA changed the EULA since then?
[http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/action/battlefield-3/news/6331203/...](http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/action/battlefield-3/news/6331203/ea-
changes-origin-eula)

~~~
mattmanser
They only removed parts of it, specifically the parts allowing them to use the
information for marketing.

Also the Germans are going nuts about it because they claim the Origin EULA is
a violation of privacy laws:

[http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/3477/article/origin-s-
inv...](http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/3477/article/origin-s-invasive-
eula-could-meet-legal-opposition-in-germany/)

I was under the impression that Steam's anti-cheat bot actually did something
similar to this too, scanning running programs to search for aimbots and the
like. This might go further though, I have no idea if it scans non-steam
folders.

~~~
lclarkmichalek
I thought most EULAs were ruled invalid in Germany, as you pay for the product
before you accept the EULA.

~~~
Xylakant
While this is technically true, the Origin EULA would be invalid in large
parts even if it were accepted before paying. There's a detailed article (in
german) here:
[http://www.gamestar.de/spiele/battlefield-3/artikel/analyse_...](http://www.gamestar.de/spiele/battlefield-3/artikel/analyse_zur_eula_von_ea_origin,45612,2561554.html)

There's a provision in german law that EULAs may not contain clauses deemed
"surprising" or "unexpected". There are multiple paragraphs in the Origin EULA
that violate this principle (such as reserving the right to scan all data on
your computer).

There's another rule that customers may not be placed at a significant
disadvantage if you're dealing with private customers. This rule is violated
for example when EA reserves the right to terminate support for the game
(rendering it effectively unusable) at any time at their sole discretion.

There's other minor points such as attempting to move eventual lawsuits out of
country or reserving the right to unilaterally change the EULA at any time but
that's more or less the icing on the cake.

The obvious consensus is that the EULA is invalid in pretty much any given
point. Which means that the game is defective and may be returned to the store
at any point after buying - a tempting idea actually :)

In other news: EA seems to back off a little
[http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Electronic-Arts-
reagi...](http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Electronic-Arts-reagiert-auf-
Kritik-an-Origin-Nutzungsbedingungen-1369022.html) (german as well)

~~~
rmc
I'm not surprised. But why not use this to your advantage as a campaign? On a
given day, everyone buys the game, then goes back and asks for a refund. Get
everyone knowledgeable about the law, given them leaflets explaining the law
to quote to the store clerks, forms to fill in with details if the clerks
don't give the refund. Do this a few times.

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Luyt
This is why I install my games on a separate bootable harddisk, which I only
boot when I want to play a game.

~~~
JonWood
I do that as well.

Because games are the only reason I'd want to run Windows.

~~~
davidw
My favorite video game is "emacs". If you align all the characters correctly,
you can make the computer do some pretty incredible things.

The RMS level is a bitch though.

Edit: I'm not joking about Emacs - sitting down to write some code/create
something is what I do for fun.

~~~
nobody31
I fed a game of Dwarf Fortress into Perl and my computer became self aware

~~~
shaggyfrog
And about fifteen minutes later when the catsplosion hit, really, really slow,
right? :)

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corncobpipe
I admit I haven't read all the comments here so I apologize if someone else
has made the following comment. This story is nonsense.

Install Process Explorer (<http://technet.microsoft.com/en-
us/sysinternals/bb896653>), launch Process Explorer, install Origin, launch
Origin, log in with your username/password. Let Process Explorer run for an
hour or so and filter out any results where the Origin directory is being
read.

What are you going to find? Nothing.

Most of this outrage is based on a photoshopped screenshot in a BF3 forum, the
rest is speculation, not based on fact.

Try the Process Manger experiment for yourself.

~~~
jonursenbach
They may not actually be collecting data right now, but the ToS explicitly
grants them the ability to do so at some point in the future.

~~~
corncobpipe
People are freaking out on this like it's already happening. I point out how
you can monitor the program and now I'm getting a negative feedback? Fuck this
place.

~~~
Dylan16807
The negative feedback is because you called the story nonsense. The _story_ is
about the TOS.

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uses
This is a low-quality submission. It's a two month old, three paragraph blog
entry expressing a vague sentiment, with links to low-quality sources.

------
Too
Can this even be legal? I see this is getting more and more common. Something
has to be done about it now before every program you install starts calling
home with info about your personal files.

Spotify does the same thing. Read the user agreement, in there somewhere
theres a line about giving them full right to analyze and track your personal
music collection that you have stored locally on your computer. Yes, that
means your local mp3-files completely unrelated to the spotify service.

~~~
Silhouette
There are all kinds of ways this could potentially be invalidated in law,
depending on your jurisdiction: privacy laws, computer misuse laws, unfair
contract terms protections/limitations on what would be considered reasonable
in a contract of adhesion, and indeed the fundamental question of what legal
status any given EULA has and whether it is enforceable at all.

Unfortunately, governments seem unwilling to legislate to provide any clarity
on EULAs despite their vast scope. Until they do, what we have is a mixed bag
of case law, which has little consistency between jurisdictions or even
sometimes within the same jurisdiction, and which in any case covers only a
tiny number of very specific cases rather than giving much guidance on the
broader principles.

I suspect that means if this is going to be struck down, it's going to be in
places that have worthwhile privacy laws, which sadly are few and far between
in the world today since technology seems to be running at least a decade
ahead of the law's ability to deal with its implications, particularly with
regard to form contracts and privacy where the increasing dependence on
conducting business via automated on-line systems has profound implications.

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killEA
EAOrigin will not last long. They gained UNLIMITED access to your system
without consents, even when they should be scanning theirs own produce
instead.

EA must leave PC Marketing at once and stick with Consoles.

By breaching every countries privacy law under false Amerikan Democratic.

Can we say Shitocratic?.

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dietcokedrinker
I hope the bad Amazon reviews based on Origin, which is just a poor Steam
clone, don't deter people from buying Battlefield 3 - it is easily the best PC
FPS game there has been for a long time. With a half decent graphics card it's
no exaggeration to say the graphics are jaw dropping, and the game play
matches it.

Unfortunately if you lose your internet connection mid game, Origin closes the
game immediately. You lose all XP/progress you have made in the game since you
launched it.

Steam had its share of problems when it launched and it looks like Origin is
exactly the same, except the tool isn't there to make our gaming lives better
but to stop piracy without giving a crap about the gaming experience.

~~~
100tonmantis
I sure hope it does deter them. To show other publishers that making a neat
game does not give them the right to spy on their customers.

~~~
maximilianburke

        By using Valve's online sites and products, users agree
        that Valve may collect aggregate information, individual
        information, and personally identifiable information, as 
        defined below. Valve may share aggregate information and 
        individual information with other parties. Valve shall not
        share personally identifiable information with other 
        parties, except as described in the policy below.
    

It doesn't seem like it's much different than Steam. Check out the System
Information option from the Help drop-down menu, I don't think it gathers that
information by guessing. Steam was also forced onto users with the release of
a much-anticipated product -- in Valve's case it was Half Life 2.

~~~
chaostheory
> But there’s a significant difference. Valve’s policy is self-restricted to
> anything on your PC directly relating to its own products. EA’s is so broad
> that it gives the publisher permission to scan your entire hard drive, and
> report back absolutely anything you may have installed, and indeed when you
> may use it, and then pass that information on the third parties.

So currently Valve uses that clause mainly to scan for cheats and hacks; EA
goes way beyond.

[http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/08/24/eas-origin-
eula-p...](http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/08/24/eas-origin-eula-proves-
even-more-sinister/)

~~~
maximilianburke
EA also updated Origin's EULA after that article was posted:

[http://www.joystiq.com/2011/08/26/ea-revises-origin-eula-
dat...](http://www.joystiq.com/2011/08/26/ea-revises-origin-eula-data-
collection-is-still-in-collection/)

~~~
pyre
But not the Privacy Policy.

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nomdeplume
best quote ever = "Reddit, known for its anger over everything..."

~~~
andypants
Also doesn't help in this case that reddit loves steam and hates ea and
origin.

And the article is 2 months old, what's up with that? Is this the most
sensational article that can be found when searching for 'origin spyware'?

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X4
<http://s1.directupload.net/file/d/2691/fglehhsj_jpg.htm>
<http://i44.tinypic.com/2lc8q37.jpg> Many upset people discuss their
experiences and view in Amazon.
[http://www.amazon.com/Battlefield-3-Pc/product-
reviews/B002I...](http://www.amazon.com/Battlefield-3-Pc/product-
reviews/B002I0HJZO/ref=cm_cr_dp_all_summary?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending)

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bluedanieru
For all their bullshit, EA has a point about Steam. I hope they get them to
change their mind about in-app purchases.

