
Ask HN: Has anyone bootstrapped a business using services like Upworks? - elephant0xffff
I would like to go into consulting in a specific niche, but lack clients (currently working as software developer in a company).<p>There are related job offers at services like Upworks, where I could think make ~5000$&#x2F;month (of course only if i get the jobs) which would be a lot of money in my current situation. However I read many horror-stories about Upworks, Toptal, Freelancer.com and related services, so I am hesitating.<p>Obviously I want to expand my field to direct customer interaction in the future, but short time it might be a decent idea?<p>Thank you for your insights and sry for my bad English, HN.
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DoreenMichele
I'm not a developer. I'm a writer.

I started to write a long-ish answer here, then decided to make it a blog
post:

[http://digitalmicroenterprise.blogspot.com/2018/05/starting-...](http://digitalmicroenterprise.blogspot.com/2018/05/starting-
with-service-as-way-to-learn.html)

Best.

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elephant0xffff
Hey Doreen, thanks for your input. By "service" you mean some of the popular
middlemen mentioned in this thread? All the best for your endeavor!

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DoreenMichele
Yes, a middleman. One of these services:

[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JfNAbUX_lN9K3MCNHO15...](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JfNAbUX_lN9K3MCNHO15GJtJ5qpk7H9Cl3xTBwv2FR8/htmlview)

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usgroup
I don’t know where you are but typically you’re better of contracting.

The typical situation is that employers need techies LOCALLY and can’t find
them in the sort of numbers they’d ideally want which drives rates up: +1
techie.

Issue with freelancing sites is that it flips the demand/supply around. The
supply is global and outstrips demand (ie people actually compete for
contracts): rates are driven down, +1 employer

IMO:

1\. Try and contract locally if the pay is best there. Further you’ll be
creating contacts to get you into new gigs.

2\. If that’s not available look for remote positions direct with employers.
If you’re v good you might get one.

3\. If you can’t do that consider a freelancing site but really all it’ll be
good for is portfolio . You’ll probably find the “next step” remains just as
far away if you already have s portfolio.

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elephant0xffff
> The typical situation is that employers need techies LOCALLY and can’t find
> them in the sort of numbers they’d ideally want which drives rates up: +1
> techie.

There are local jobs here, but they are mostly pretty standard and boring
(small business web sites and marketing), which I am not really interested to
do.

Although there is a lot of competition on freelancer.com et al. at least there
_are_ jobs for most areas of expertise.

As mentioned, I am aware of the drawbacks (pay-cut by middleman, competition
with a large pool of other workers), but it seems like a good idea to find
your first clients.

Hopefully it is not bad reputation later on (this guy worked at Upworks) ...

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timojaask
I've also heard of good and bad stories about Upwork. I think it all depends
on how you handle it yourself.

One of my good friends started his copywriting career on Upwork. First
projects he did were extremely cheap, just getting some experience. However,
he made sure he does the absolute best he can, with every project. So clients
were happy and recommended him to other clients. My friend would be doubling
his hourly rate pretty frequenly, and eventually stopped using Upwork
altogether, because clients would contact him directly, by reference from his
previous clients.

On the other hand, I know a person who's been copywriting on Upwork for seven
years, and still has an hourly rate of 10 USD / hour, which is just
ridiculous.

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elephant0xffff
Thanks, this is uplifting information, and sounds like a good plan - start
with low-paying jobs and be exceptional and then raise your rates and get
first-hand clients.

How professional do they handle freelancer's and client's privacy? I will try
to do my best but some things can and will go wrong. If things don't go well I
don't want to loose my reputation because of some remote-work jobs site,
because they or a client skrewed up.

~~~
timojaask
I don't personally know enough about Upwork to answer that question.

I'm currently working as a developer consultant, and get all my clients from
my previous work history. I used to work in an agency, building apps for many
different clients, so now I've got a lot of connections in the industry.

~~~
elephant0xffff
Has it been complex to sell your skills because of your previous employee? Did
you just cold e-mail your previous contacts that you got while working or did
they approach you?

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staticautomatic
I've hired a lot via UpWork and consider it the lesser of evils among these
platforms. It is still all kinds of evil, though. I've heard it's at least as
bad for the contractors.

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Gustomaximus
I tend to hire off Freelancer. I haven't seen too much difference in people
found. It seems more in the way of how you filter people as there is a bunch
of poor performers.

I find Upwork seems to give people high summary ratings and when you look at
their history and there is a bunch of bad reviews. There is something dodgy
going on there which is a main reason I flipped to Freelancer. That and I
thought it was good to support a company from my country.

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staticautomatic
The one or two times I've used Freelancer, the quality of the candidates was
quite poor (at least what I was hiring for). But what really annoyed me was
how conspicuously Freelancer nickle-and-dimes on fees for various things just
to post the job.

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elephant0xffff
After evaluating both platforms in more detail I will probably start with
freelancer.com as it is possible to have an arbitrary name (e.g.
"elephantdesign") instead of real name only. This makes it simpler to tailor
your profile to a specific niche in my opinion and seems more privacy aware.
Obviously both platforms are pretty intrusive, but at least freelancer.com
guard your real name.

However there seems to be an agency mode on Upworks which might be similar.

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staticautomatic
I may be alone in this but as the one doing the hiring I strongly prefer
individual freelancers who use their real names. Fraud is a very real problem
on these platforms.

