
Too Poor to Afford the Internet - danso
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/12/opinion/too-poor-to-afford-the-internet.html
======
jawns
Can I just say how much I love the way public libraries have navigated
themselves into the digital age?

They are, as this piece points out, very popular places to access computers
and the Internet, and many libraries offer a wealth of digital content. I can
check out and instantly download e-books and audiobooks and movies from my
library.

It's certainly conceivable that they might have transitioned less well. There
is, after all, a healthy amount of government bureaucracy in the public
library system, and that tends to stymie innovation. And then there's just the
pain of transition. Bookstores have felt those pains hard; it's not that
people don't want content, but they want content in different forms, and a lot
of bookstores just couldn't move fast enough.

But I'm really glad to see libraries continue to be generally healthy, and
important community resources.

~~~
blacksmith_tb
Plus having a library card often gets you access (even remote access!) to lots
of expensive services - I use the OED, J-stor, etc. from home with gusto. I
will say there's a small dark side to having gone digital, many libraries have
culled a lot of their holdings, and/or can't afford to buy as many books as
they once did (have to pay for those licenses somehow...). It's likely that
there's less demand, but it still makes me a little sad.

~~~
superswordfish
I haven't noticed any reduction in catalog size or variety over the years
(US), maybe I've lived around well-funded systems? If anything it's become
more varied with time. The only annoying thing is having to filter out eBooks
every time searching the catalog.

------
gumby
Another huge aspect of poverty and internet access is the increasing number of
households who _don 't_ have wifi but use only their phones for internet
access. ("one-quarter of those earning below the median income and one-third
of those living below poverty level accessed the Internet only through their
mobile devices." [https://theconversation.com/many-low-income-students-use-
onl...](https://theconversation.com/many-low-income-students-use-only-their-
phone-to-get-online-what-are-they-missing-54213) and if you want more
[http://qz.com/580024/more-americans-are-relying-
exclusively-...](http://qz.com/580024/more-americans-are-relying-exclusively-
on-their-phones-for-internet-access/) )

The world really looks different if you only have a handheld device -- it's
more read-only and because of caps and expensive mobile plans, you will use it
less.

In cities there's a chance that libraries can help, but with rural poverty
it's really a trap!

~~~
wolfgke
I'm a little bit surprised: Raspberry Pi 3, say, 40$ (current price on
Adafruit). Let's say 70$ for RPi + power adapter + enclosure + mouse +
keyboard + SD card. You surely have a TV. Use your mobile phone to set up a
hotspot - problem solved. If this is still too expensive: There are lots of
hobbyists having old RPi lying around. Or companies that have old mouses and
keyboards lying around that aren't used anymore and are happy to give them
away for a symbolic sum.

~~~
kingnothing
Learning how to set all of that up is a massive barrier to entry for the
technically average or below-average person. With a modern phone, all you have
to do is turn it on and you're good to go.

~~~
wolfgke
There are lots of people that you can simply ask and are often willing to help
(for example at hacker spaces or maker spaces).

~~~
MichaelGG
So these lower income people are expected to a: know there's low cost ARM
devices that can use their HDMI TV as an input, b: know hackerspaces exist and
think they aren't for "hackers", c: walk in to one and say "set this up for
me"?

That's highly, incredibly, improbable. Anyone meeting such criteria probably
always got a device.

~~~
wolfgke
I know low-income people (living from unemployment benefits) who meet these
criteria (thus surely not "highly, incredibly, improbable"). The example with
the hacker space was just one illuminating example (though I don't consider it
as strange: In the city where I live the hacker space organized some public
technology tinkering project in the past). There are of course lots of other
ways how you can find people who can explain how to set one up.

~~~
MichaelGG
And have you given them an rpi yet?

~~~
wolfgke
For some I set up one, some prefer other ways to access the internet (for
example a used computer that they got cheaply from who-knows-where).

I just gave the RPi as one example of a cheap example of a non-mobile-device
for accessing the internet - there are of course lots of other ways, too.

------
drops
Interesting. I live in a country with a minimum wage of $58 a month (Ukraine)
and yet the internet is one of the few things that pretty much anyone can
afford: high speed connections (50-100mbps) cost about $2-4; rarely more.

Are american high prices the result of scummy pricing on the corporations'
side or is it an actual infrastructural issue that prevents the ISPs from
providing cheap connections to everyone?

~~~
rayiner
The vast majority of the cost of any kind of infrastructure is labor, which
scales with local wages.[1] A New York subway ticket is about $2.75. That's
about 11x more than the cost of a ticket on the Kiev Metro. And it's not like
the New York subway makes a profit--fares cover only about half the system's
operating costs.[2]

In Baltimore, I paid about $50 for a 50mbps connection, or about 20x more than
a subway ticket. Sounds like the ratio is about the same order of magnitude in
Ukraine.

[1] A telecom field technican in the U.S. makes about $6,000-$7,000 per month,
plus benefits. That's about 20x what the average Ukrainian in Kiev makes
(according to the Internet).

[2] Fares on D.C.'s metro, which similarly cover only about 50% of costs,
range from $1.75 to $5.90(!).

~~~
linkregister
How did you get that $50/50Mbps deal in Baltimore? Was this part of a bundle
for cable television?

~~~
crazy1van
It was remarkable how much the price per Mbps dropped in the area once Verizon
FIOS entered the market. Just one real competitor to Comcast made a
substantial difference.

------
lumberjack
Rather than home internet access. I'd create safe study places for these kids
to do their homework and even just hang around in.

Children in poverty often suffer from dysfunctional families that disrupt
their studying and lack of life mentors to motivate them to pay attention in
school.

If you could have supervised after school hours just for these kids to do
their homework and maybe engage in a bit of self learning it would be much
more useful than having home internet access.

~~~
cylinder
Many / most schools have after school programs for this reason.

~~~
superuser2
I have limited experience with these, but don't they tend to be like 45
minutes to an hour? You need to go at least as far as dinner time if you want
kids to actually complete assignments there, not just start them.

------
niftich
You need water to be a productive member of society. (Or to survive at all,
but that's a prerequisite.) You need food to be a productive member of
society. (Or to survive at all, but that's a prerequisite.) You need shelter
to be a productive member of society. More often that not, you need
electricity to be a productive member of society. Increasingly so, you need
internet to be a productive member of society.

In every case, the person consuming these resources either:

[a] pays for them on their own

[b] is provided them but paid by someone else, possibly in aggregate (family,
government services, charity)

[c] not provided them at all, in which case they are no longer a productive
member of society (or worse, near-starving, starving, or dead)

Ethics and economic systems notwithstanding, the first few are 'hard problems'
that humanity has struggled with for millennia. Internet access is
comparatively easy, because the marginal costs of distribution are low, but
just like other 'utilities' and 'necessities', the capital cost is high.

One way to offset this is to create a market like for electricity, where
multiple players, some private, some government-owned, compete at the supply-
side and distribution-side, to provide capacity at prices that are close to
the cost of (production+transmission) for the area.

Luckily, unlike electricity, water, food, or shelter, information can be
duplicated, format-shifted, batched, compressed, time-delayed, and the like.
If fixed-fiber-based Internet to arbitrary endpoints is too expensive despite
the presence of a market, cache or store more content closer to the consumer
on CDNs. If last-mile distribution is too expensive, switch to a different
last-mile distribution paradigm -- this latter one is what public libraries
(and public hotspots) currently accomplish. If bi-directional communication is
desired, investigate peer-to-peer solutions. There's so much potential in
LANs, WANs, sneakernet, (TV/radio/data) broadcast that goes untapped.

We're stuck here because right now telcos are a terrible market and the
monopolies are granted at the wrong level; but also because we're assuming
that getting direct, end-to-end connection from one of the big telcos is the
only way to digitally communicate.

------
pbhjpbhj
Is it really $50 per month for basic internet in New York?

In the UK
[https://www.uswitch.com/broadband/packages/](https://www.uswitch.com/broadband/packages/)
shows the cheapest broadband package - which includes telephone line rental -
to be £18 per month (average across the contract when delivered router is
included). That's around $25 (you can get "free" with a telephone service).

What struck me was the kid in the header image has a swanky new laptop, the
story confirms the kids bring their laptops with them. Could they pay their
neighbour $10 to leech the neighbours wifi? Do they need swanky laptops or
just an internet appliance (my work computer is a 3rd hand toshiba on WinXP! -
good enough for net+email)?

Do people in the USA tend to go to libraries for wifi rather than [near] to a
cafe or other private business leaking free wifi?

~~~
akhilcacharya
The kid's Macbook Air looked like a loaner or library machine (according to
the stop sign sticker on the bottom). I doubt anybody that can't afford
internet would buy a $899 machine.

~~~
erroneousfunk
I bought my cousin an 11" Macbook Air for $300 (refurbished, mid 2011 model)
She's a bright kid, but living with her grandmother (not a great home
situation) in rural Utah, and only had Internet access through her phone.
Phones are usually more important than a computer, if you have to choose
between the two (and don't have reliable Internet, or the skills/knowledge to
set up Google Voice, or, say, VOIP software on your laptop), but a MacBook
doesn't have to be more expensive than a smartphone.

------
koolba
> They’re there during the school year, too, even during the winter — it’s the
> only way they can complete their online math homework.

Why is there homework online? Has this been shown to be better in any way for
children learning math or just a cop out by lazy teachers to be able to
automatically grade the assignments?

I can't imagine learning math with anything besides a pencil and paper (yes
even calculators are mostly bullshit).

~~~
escherize
Do you actually believe the public school system's goal is to educate
children? More like freeing up parents to go to work (and tax), and employing
teachers and administrators. It's nearly impossible to fire teachers, thanks
to a public sector union who's got their back.

School is like a prison for kids. One form of punishment is detention - more
school.

Also, "In the 2000 report, commissioned by the American Association of
University Women, surveyors asked students between eighth and 11th grades
whether they had ever experienced inappropriate sexual conduct at school. The
list of such conduct included lewd comments, exposure to pornography, peeping
in the locker room, and sexual touching or grabbing. Around one in 10 students
said they had been the victim of one or more such things from a teacher or
other school employee, and two-thirds of those reported the incident involved
physical contact." \-
[http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/20...](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2012/02/is_sexual_abuse_in_schools_very_common_.html)

So, asking if something the public school system is doing is student focused
betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of its purpose.

~~~
justinph
> Do you actually believe the public school system's goal is to educate
> children?

Absolutely. It doesn't work out perfect every time in every place, but it does
a pretty amazing job of that given the poor level of funding and constant
bashing from the entitled anti-union right. Freeing up parents is a wonderful
side effect that has worked out pretty well for contemporary society.

If you're surprised that kids going through puberty are engaging in sexual
activity, you must be living under a rock.

~~~
crazy1van
> given the poor level of funding

Do you have a source for this? According to an OECD study I found, the US
spends among the most in the world per pupil on education.

[https://data.oecd.org/eduresource/education-
spending.htm](https://data.oecd.org/eduresource/education-spending.htm)
[http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2015/apr/21/jeb...](http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2015/apr/21/jeb-
bush/does-united-states-spend-more-student-most-countri/)

~~~
kalleboo
From your link:

> Traditionally the United States spends big parts of its educational budget
> on non-instructional items such as security -- more so than some other
> nations.

Whenever I read about the US I'm absolutely terrified

~~~
greedo
That quote is really without context. When I look at the "security" of the
schools my children have been enrolled in, I see minimal security. Facilities
security isn't like a prison by any stretch, and the cost can't be that high.
The dominant cost factor for education is labor costs, not
equipment/facilities costs.

And the "\--more than some other nations." tag is just poor journalism without
added context. I'm sure that the US spends more money on metal detectors than
a lot of the small countries in the world. But that doesn't tell us anything
useful.

------
droopyEyelids
What they don't talk about is the real struggle the less-literate face, even
when they have access to computers.

I tried to teach a class on computers in my local library and that was often
the hurdle. Adults who want 'computer training' are most excited about getting
a job. But while it's easy to teach them to move the cursor and click on the
browser, that doesn't do any good when they can't write enough to search, or
read job descriptions, or write their resume.

------
rmason
The road to Internet connectivity for the nation's poor originates in Detroit.
I know that I've posted this before so forgive me.

[https://www.alliedmedia.org/dctp/digitalstewards](https://www.alliedmedia.org/dctp/digitalstewards)

A group of volunteers in Detroit are the pioneers in setting up mesh networks
to provide connectivity to the poor. The recipe is to get some benefactors to
sponsor one or two fiber connections, campaign with local businesses to open
their connectivity and build a mesh network throughout the neighborhood.

I've met these people and have come away impressed and a little in awe of what
they've done on - little or no money. They've also got some mean technical
chops and have setup networks in other cities around the world like Brooklyn,
Washington D.C. and India.

------
VonGuard
If you know anyone who is too poor for the Internet, if they live in public
housing, please let them know about
[http://everyoneon.org/](http://everyoneon.org/)

This is a program that gives people in subsidized section 8 housing super
cheap broadband. It's a bout $5 per month and gets you top quality broadband,
such as a cable modem. Very similar to the old lifeline phone lines.

------
kyleblarson
In Seattle you can borrow a 4g hotspot from the library:
[http://www.spl.org/library-collection/spl-
hotspot](http://www.spl.org/library-collection/spl-hotspot)

------
mankash666
I'm genuinely curious as to why the kids aren't availing the FCC lifeline
program. Can someone explain how and why a mechanism built to solve this exact
problem isn't working, given that $7B was attributed to 3 communications
related welfare programs by the FCC.

------
Mister_Snuggles
My local library is trying out a pilot program to loan out hotspots[0] the
same way they loan out books. The hotspots have unlimited data and it looks
like the only real restriction on them, beyond the usual stuff you'd get from
a normal ISP, is that you bring them back after the loan period is up.
Hopefully the pilot project results in a permanent program. Library cards are
now free, so cost isn't a barrier anymore.

The City of Edmonton provides free WiFi[1] in a number of places[2], albeit
with more restrictions. These mainly seem to be at rec centres and LRT
stations, but there are also some parks included.

If someone in Edmonton didn't have internet access and needed it, it's
available without too much trouble.

[0] [http://www.epl.ca/hotspots/](http://www.epl.ca/hotspots/)

[1] [http://www.edmonton.ca/programs_services/open-
wifi.aspx](http://www.edmonton.ca/programs_services/open-wifi.aspx)

[2] [https://data.edmonton.ca/Facilities-and-Structures/Open-
City...](https://data.edmonton.ca/Facilities-and-Structures/Open-City-Wi-Fi-
Locations-Map-View/mhj4-e4bq/data)

------
matt_wulfeck
I'm torn about this. On the one hand it's clear that access to the Internet is
almost as important as other utilies, such as clean water and heating oil.

On the other hand regulation is exactly how broadband rollout has been stifled
in the past and present by incumbents, and is at least partly to blame why
it's so expensive right now.

I want it deregulated and opened up to very serious competition. I also want
our government to build reliable infrastructure (fiber) as much as is
possible.

~~~
__jal
> I want it deregulated and opened up to very serious competition. I also want
> our government to build reliable infrastructure (fiber) as much as is
> possible.

I'm not surprised that you feel torn. Those desires are in direct
contradiction with each other.

Even if you're referring to splitting infra from service, there will still be
regulation. You'll also see law enforcement becoming very interested in the
fact that interconnects and the last mile are now government property.

~~~
randyrand
I wish we could have more separation of government entities.

Community internet could/should be owned by the community, separate from the
government.

It could be structured as a private company, where shares are only owned by
people within the community and then they have voting rights. Still community
owned, but very separate from the more general government.

Interestingly this would also allow community members to invest in their own
internet infrastructure directly.

~~~
stinkytaco
This is how many municipal electrical utilities are operated. Essentially as
independently run entities. It's actually worth pointing out that many
government bodies are overseen by politically appointees (library boards,
parking commissions, liquor control boards, etc.) creating a space in which
civil servants are working with much more direct civilian oversight. As
lampooned as this is in comedy (see Parks and Rec or Yes Minister), it's
generally a fairly effective check against what you are speaking of. My
library, for example, has a fairly robust law enforcement inquiry policy set
by its board.

------
ams6110
I question the premise. I cannot think of anything I do online at home that is
essential to my being a productive member of society. 90% of my internet use
at home is for entertainment. It's today's cable TV. It's not essential.

~~~
Broken_Hippo
How do you think your life would be if you couldn't access the 10% that is not
entertainment? I'll argue this stuff will at times be a large quality of life
issue especially if you are poor.

Like others have said, governments are moving things online. Some things,
though available in person, are too far for travel and telephone hours are
short. If you are working a couple of jobs, you might miss some work just to
do basic things, which is really detrimental. Even simple tax returns give
money sooner, which might be the difference between someone having housing and
not.

Utility companies have started to charge people more if they get a physical
bill instead of online billing. Reduced or witholding installation charges if
you sign up for internet, cable, or whatnot online.

Maybe you just need a phone number. Increasingly phone books are becoming
rarer, so you might not have access. Or the number changed, or you need some
governement phone number that isn't listed. Maybe you simply need hours or a
doctor's phone number. Internet provides this more readily.

More and more companies are using online only applications. I worked for a
pharmacy that simply did not take paper applications or CVs. They did not have
a kiosk in the store.

Libraries are great for access, until they are out of your range or you don't
have one in your township and have to pay for a card. Many smaller libraries
have too few computers, a short time limit (30 minutes), and a lack of
privacy. Plus there are transportation costs.

Such transportation costs actually are most detrimental to the poor.

Now, most folks will have the biggest gain in entertainment. But really, this
helps you be more productive as well. You can make small talk at work, you can
relax after the day, interact with family, and other such things. It is good
for mental health in some respects.

------
FussyZeus
I have a weird question: How come the kids congregate outside the library for
the wifi? Is there a thing that you can't go in just to use the wifi? I used
to do that all the time in college, didn't even have a card.

~~~
gumby
when it's closed: "All summer, kids have been hanging out in front of the
Morris Park Library in the Bronx, before opening hours and after closing."

~~~
FussyZeus
Ah, of course. Should've thought of that.

------
clumsysmurf
I relied on my public library for internet access for years ... luckily
though, I had my own computer.

Do any libraries have some kind of persisted 'virtualized' environment that
migrated between public-use machines?

For example, at the library I was at, you could not install software you
needed - things were pretty locked down. And one day you may use machine #5,
another day it might be machine #10.

Imagine you wanted to teach yourself programming. A few tools would need to be
installed. I don't see how this would be possible in the library I was in
(using public computers).

~~~
pimlottc
I don't recall the details, but the last time I was at the main library in
Cleveland, there was a sticker advising everyone how to save to a "cloud
drive" so all their files would be there the next time they came back. They
had some sort of similar system for the tablets they let you use as well,
pretty nifty.

------
kwhitefoot
Why should one need a library card to use a library internet connection? Last
time I used a public computer in the UK they were free for everyone with a
time limit. But in Raleigh, NC, only registered card holders can use them.

------
compil3r
"Today’s technology revolution promises to provide more information, more
widely than ever. Yet we have left almost two million New Yorkers in the
digital dark." \- That is NYC, imagine Detroit, or Athens..

------
tim333
It's because of stuff like this that I thought facebook free basics in India
wasn't such a bad idea. At least the kids there would have been able to get
Wikipedia which you can learn most stuff from.

------
obihill
Would it make sense to give libraries a new lease on life and turn them into
mini-coworking spaces with micro-finance credit? Apart from how they serve as
a conduit for free internet, there could be opportunities to use them to
encourage entrepreneurship in those areas that are currently under-
represented. Maybe even something worth replicating in other locales.

------
lllorddino
Just steal your neighbors wifi..

------
hnburnsy
Most providers offer low income broadband which offers service for $9.95 per
month with no installation/activation or modem rental fees. Cox even includes
access to its Wi-Fi hotspot network.

~~~
Cyph0n
Comcast charges $20 for its cheapest plan (10 Mbps), which increases to $50
after the first year. It's the only option on my area.

~~~
hnburnsy
Comcast Internet Essentials

\- 10 Mbps Internet service for just $9.95 a month + tax \- No activation fees
and no equipment rental fees \- Option to purchase a computer for just $149.99
+ tax \- Access to free Internet training online, in print and in person \- A
wireless gateway, delivering in-home WiFi at no additional cost

[https://customer.xfinity.com/help-and-
support/internet/comca...](https://customer.xfinity.com/help-and-
support/internet/comcast-broadband-opportunity-program/)

~~~
Cyph0n
Oh yep, you are right. Thanks for linking.

------
virtuexru
When TWC stops providing horrible internet service for astronomical prices
then maybe things will change.

~~~
hbcondo714
That will hopefully come soon enough - [https://www.charter.com/merger-
twc](https://www.charter.com/merger-twc)

~~~
leereeves
Doesn't reducing the number of suppliers of a product tend to reduce
competition and increase prices?

~~~
DiabloD3
Charter was the only cable company allowed to buy TWC because of their track
record. Both Comcast and Cox considered it, and the FCC straight up said no,
they would never approve it.

The former Adelphia areas that went to Comcast got marginally better (more
uniform towards product offerings in line with existing Comcast), but are
still overpriced shit, and the areas that TWC got worse to match TWC's
existing shittyness.

Given how TWC is a toxic shithole of a company, and Comcast is _barely_ any
different, Charter has actually made a name for themselves for being customer
oriented, not short term anti-profit like the other two, and the FCC happily
allowed the merger.

Charter's pricing is generally lower, their customer support is generally
better, and they actually rebuild areas they buy instead of letting them rot
like TWC (and also Verizon, on the teleco side).

tl;dr if the companies refuse to compete, how is any of it considered
"competition"?

------
shardinator
Too poor for a NYT subscription :( ... actually just checked their prices,
quite reasonable.

