
80% of People Quietly Despise Their Lives - wavephorm
http://howtosplitanatom.com/news/80-of-people-quietly-despise-their-lives/
======
saturdaysaint
There's truth here, but it's almost too obvious to point out that this is
highly anecdotal and almost emblematic of all sorts of bias problems.

Selection bias is chief. Very few people are socially in touch with anything
representing the general population. The author doesn't mention where he's
initiating these conversations, but happy people do not hang out by themselves
at bars very often or necessarily avail themselves to strangers in line at
Starbucks. Many of them spend most of their socializing in families and tight
knit groups of friends. It's very easy to interact with a certain strata of
mildly depressed middle class people and think you're dealing with a diverse
slice of society.

The other big one is projection. If you're a contemplative/philosophical
person, especially a smart one, there's a good chance that you can tap right
into people's ennui and disillusionment. People of a more manic bent can
engage just about anyone in a fast-paced, neurotic conversation. The happier
people I know are often under the impression that most people are more or less
satisfied with their existence. Again, be careful.

Finally, most people also have a strong propensity to see themselves at a
fundamental advantage to most people ("I'm doing good, everybody else is
struggling."). I wish I remembered the name for the term.

It's an interesting conversation, but these kind of conversations need to
proceed with a high-level of self-awareness that's somewhat absent here.

~~~
mechanical_fish
I agree. As the physicists would say, this little psychological observation is
"not even wrong".

Not only does it matter who you ask and in what context, but the very wording
of the questions is significant. By priming you properly (e.g. perhaps by
asking you to name a bunch of extremely happy and fulfilled people and only
_then_ asking you if you feel happy and fulfilled yourself) I can probably
make the results come out however I want.

------
angrycoder
1) People crave stability.

2) Stability breeds contempt.

>> A will and desire awakens to go off, anywhere, at any cost; a vehement
dangerous curiosity for an undiscovered world flames and flickers in all its
sense. 'Better to die than to go living here' - thus responds the imperious
voices and temptation; and this 'here', this 'at home' is everything it had
hitherto loved! A sudden terror and suspicion of what it loved, a lightning-
bolt of contempt for what it called 'duty', a rebellious, arbitrary,
volcanically erupting desire for travel, strange places, estrangements,
coldness, soberness, frost, a hatred of love, perhaps a desecrating blow and
glance backwards to where it formerly loved and worshipped.

\-- Nietzsche

~~~
akavi
Can somebody explain to me why we allow philosophers to make explicitly
positive claims about the mind and psychology without empirical evidence, when
were they to do the same thing with regards to, say physics (claiming perhaps
that "the sun has a will to orbit the earth"), we'd rightly reject them for
lack of proof?

~~~
telemachos
Well, first, there might be _some_ things about human psychology that we can
figure out _a priori_. Notice I said "might". I don't think it's obvious that
we should rule out the possibility, at the very least.

More generally, it's just not true that all scientific work (including
physics) is done completely by means of empirical research. See Wikipedia's
entry on "Thought experiment" for some good cases[1].

I'm not arguing for or against this particular bit of Nietzsche, but I think
HN sometimes overvalues empirical or statistical study above all else.

[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_experiment>

~~~
onemoreact
That Wiki link needs to be editied. EX:

 _consequences:In terms of their theoretical consequences, thought experiments
generally:

challenge (or even refute) a prevailing theory, often involving the device
known as reductio ad absurdum,_

Hmm, you could replace device with logical falicy but then it does not say
what they thought it did...

~~~
BoppreH
Reductio ad absurdum is not necessarily a fallacy.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum>

------
latch
I agree that it's a pretty weak article. However, I 100% absolutely and
totally believe it.

What I feel like I've come to realize is that pride is at the center of it
all. Pride is what makes people "quiet" about it , because people don't like
admit that they aren't happy. People don't want to spend $500 on a phone, be
locked for 2+year, and then admit its a POS (yes, some people do, but far from
the majority). People don't want to admit that they hate their job to their
closest friends and coworkers unless it's clear everyone else feels the same
way.

People lie to themselves (although, they certainly know they are doing it), so
that they don't have to admit that they aren't perfect...it's ego...and it's
silly (it's the same thing that makes people buy a 2nd car, or a bigger house,
because their friends got a 2nd car or their brother bought a new house..)

~~~
sliverstorm
There's also a certain amount of practicality. Better to be cheerful about
your POS phone you're locked into for 2+ years than bellyache about it for 2+
years.

~~~
latch
True..and I'm probably a glass-half-empty sorta guy.

But in my own experience, pride does still play a part in it, it isn't about
trying to be positive, it's about not wanting to seem like a fool and getting
fleeced.

Maybe pride is just the reason I'm not happy, and not everyone else's reason
:)

~~~
palish
Well, for what it's worth, I think you're 100% correct.

What shocked me was...

1) it's almost impossible to talk with someone about themselves, about
mistakes they've made or about things they could do better (unless they
brought it up).

2) almost nobody cares about "the truth". They only care about what makes them
happy.

Those two may as well be laws of nature.

~~~
MaxGabriel
This isn't intended as a response, but actually the opposite of those two are
like the defining characteristics of me.

I came to the first one after reading journal articles about 'inherency'
(debate jargon for the reason a problem continues to persist), where I started
think much more in terms of external causes of problems I had rather than
internal ones. That's also made me much more empathetic

The second one came to me through an old debate coach, my first mentor. I've
actually found that 'seeking the truth' is a really fantastic experience, and
contagious too; its the reason my roommate comes home from class and reads
academic studies about fitness and nutrition.

------
mburney
I have come to the conclusion that following or pursuing goals and dreams is
not the key to happiness. Yes, it is something worth doing, but it is not a
magic pill.

Running a business, or working on a creative project can also cause a lot of
unhappiness and misery. I've been pursuing my goals and dreams for a couple of
years now and I don't think it has made me happier at all.

I've found these things to be much more important:

-Maintaining a calm, relaxed state as much as possible. Not suppressing anger but not letting it destroy you either.

-Physical and mental challenges; doesn't mean you have to quit your job and pursue some grand scheme though

-Socializing

~~~
TeMPOraL
While I like 'socializing', I'd qualify it more as a distraction - the
'reading Hacker News' type of distraction - that takes your mind off the
problems. It usually doesn't solve much, but makes you happier for a while.

~~~
metachris
It makes you happy for a while, but also overall. When I think back, the
happiest moments have been those spent with good friends, not those hacking
away all night.

~~~
erikpukinskis
My happiest moments, when I think back, are a mixture of both.

------
paganel
I'm 30, about to get divorced (for the first time) and move out of the house
carrying only a couple of books and a plasma TV, and the startup I've been
working for the last 18 months is about to run out of money (that would be my
second failed startup that I've worked for in the last 5 years). Do I "quietly
despise" my life? Nope. Do I have moments when I think that life is hard as
hell and when I'm trying to gather all my forces to make it through the night?
Absolutely. I wouldn't be human if I didn't have those moments, I would be
just a machine.

What makes me go with it? I don't know. Maybe thoughts like "if I'm not going
to do this cool and useful project then nobody else would". Or the few people
that from time to time tell me "hey man, that's a very cool project you've
created, it really helped me". And I'm not talking projects that bring me
money, I'm talking about stuff that help other people make better sense of the
world we're living in and about our surroundings.

Also, by chance I've just recently read Seneca's "On the Shortness of Life"
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Brevitate_Vitae_%28Seneca%29>), it really
helped me put things in a different (I'd say better) perspective.

~~~
ams6110
Leave the TV.

~~~
spoiledtechie
Ditto.

------
mironathetin
"It might take you 20 years to write your novel, but put a sentence or two on
a page every day."

I think this is the wrong advice. Writing a novel like this will give the
impression it will never be done. If, after ten years, you'll read what you
have so far, it'll be sh.t because, in ten years your style and your way of
thinking will change a lot.

My current idea is, if you want to achieve something, focus and do it quickly.
Otherwise you will run out of steam and finally be frustrated. Being
frustrated a few times results in the impression that you cannot get anything
done.

~~~
fabjan
> If, after ten years, you'll read what you have so far, it'll be sh.t
> because, in ten years your style and your way of thinking will change a lot.

I saw an artist on TV the other day that said she throws away any song that
takes more than 30 minutes to write. Because her mood and thoughts will change
if she spends too much time writing the song.

~~~
mynameishere
Yeah, horrible advice. Paul McCartney would have to have released "Yesterday"
with its original lyrics

"Scrambled Eggs / Oh, my baby how I love your legs"

------
_corbett
I'm always skeptical of people who contend that teenagers/children are happier
without seemingly any data other than their personal rose-colored memories.

I personally have grown happier every year since age 6 or so (prior to that I
don't remember, but I imagine I was the typical bipolar child joyous at one
second and in the depths of despair the next). Mainly because of increased
personal autonomy, long term goal fulfillment, and knowledge/experience
increase.

~~~
lsc
This is also my experience.

I think misery is fairly normal for children and teenagers. They have no
control over their life, and they are surrounded by jerks. I mean, come on;
nearly everyone is an asshole at 16. God knows I was. And when you are 16, you
are mostly around other 16 year old assholes, and you are treated like an
asshole by adults, because, well, you probably are one.

For me, when I was that age, my favorite part of any day was going to my part-
time IT job, where I helped county workers (mostly 40+) with their windows
problems. The contrast between interacting with adults who treated me like a
real human being that had something to offer and the rest of my life was
extreme.

And really, I don't think my life was that unusual. I mean, besides the after-
school IT job.

~~~
ams6110
Counterpoint, I think my happiest days were in childhood. Adulthood, at least
for someone who's being responsible for himself and family, is far from being
the magical "freedom" that kids and teens imagine it is.

~~~
lsc
Yeah, different people have different experiences.

I find adulthood to be very free. I mean, I'm sure it would be different if I
had children, and maybe even if my spouse couldn't support herself, but as is?
I pretty much do whatever I feel like doing. I mean, there are tradeoffs, and
I have to live with the consequences of my mistakes, and I do need to work a
certain amount every few days to avoid destroying the lifestyle I've set up,
but beyond that? I can make my world be what I want it to be. I can easily
work more and have a larger company, money for cool gadgets or future time
off, or alternately, I can work less. Heck, my employee is good enough now
that if I really want to I could almost completely stop work (or get a regular
full-time job and have lots of money for gadgets.) and let things coast until
he gets sick of it and leaves.

If I find a particular task tiresome or unpleasant, I can, generally speaking,
pay a small fee and have someone else deal with it, or I can organize my life
such that it doesn't have to be done. I go to sleep when I feel like it, and I
wake up when I want to.

Nobody is riding me to learn skills that are both difficult and useless.
Really, nobody is riding me to learn anything; When I feel like it, I can go
learn new things that I find interesting and/or useful. I can challenge myself
as much as I like, or I can stay home for a few days and read Asimov's
complete foundation series. Heck, if I want structure, I can build my own, or
ask others to impose it on me. This is one of my current projects; designing
and then implementing some structure in areas where I think structure will
make me happier.

But, I value this freedom highly, and I'm willing to pay for it; I jumped from
highschool to overpaid programmer/sysadmin gigs in '97, and have put a large
part of the difference between the upper middle class salary paid to someone
with my skills and the amount of money someone like me actually needs to live
towards starting my own business (or rather, towards mistakes I made while
starting my own business.) I mean, even now, with my business going fairly
well, I'm earning slightly less than the nationwide median per-capita income
while living in an area where the local median per-capita income is about
twice that, so I've made some sacrifices for that freedom. But it was my
choice, and really, I'm pretty happy with how it has turned out. Over the last
year or so I've been rather less productive, and I'm focusing on ramping up my
productivity for the next year or two. I've made some pretty good progress
this month, which is satisfying. but again, this is my choice.

Being an adult is wonderful.

------
jeffool
I mentioned this in another thread earlier today, but, I lost my job a couple
of weeks ago. I'm not even sure where I'll be living in a month. But damn am I
happy to not be there any more.

I find it funny that it's a surprise most people don't like furthering other's
agendas more than their own most days. It's silly that most people would. (Or
just lucky that so many can find a way to make money doing something they
actively enjoy.)

------
dschobel
_Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song
still in them._ \- Henry David Thoreau

~~~
redwood
beat me to it!

------
jmtame
The problem with this article is it comes across (based on the title) as
statistical, but it's not: "This isn’t a statistic, it’s a casual
observation..."

~~~
albedoa
I felt immediately betrayed by the author and didn't want to believe anything
else he had to say. It is fine if the goal was to not have my trust, but I
don't know why that would be the case here.

~~~
epo
"immediately betrayed"? Get a grip!

------
Goladus
Ironically, I've found that trying to realize dreams and side-projects in my
spare time doesn't help at ALL with long-term happiness, especially the sort
that would be apparent to a casual observer. I get short-term highs and
satisfaction from completing bits and pieces but unless I _complete_ a project
that can be shared, sold, or used personally it winds up being a drain on my
life. Yet another unfinished ambition to add to the pile, like the
accumulation of smelly worn out clothes in my closet that I keep meaning to
sort out.

------
Hyena
I'm inclined to agree with the premise that "large numbers of people quietly
despise their lives", but I think it's generally a weak effect. Most of us
will, especially if questioned, find regrets that make us despise our lives;
"years lost to path dependency" is probably the most common regret type.

I doubt, however, work life is the nexus of this problem. It would certainly
seem so if work is life to you, but I suspect that most people aren't like
that. Jobs are an inconvenience or, more likely, a neutral segment of their
lives. People can (and do) push their down time into working hours, saving
energy and engagement for later.

I wouldn't be surprised if the coulda-woulda-shouldas make most people despise
their lives off-and-on, yielding a continuous churn of momentary depressives.
I also doubt this a problem unless the length of bouts is high.

------
mberning
For me this is rubbish because I find it has very little to do with my
personal circumstance and very much to do with my own brain and personality.
I've learned to be content with my malcontentedness. In every stage of life I
have always wanted to make changes and to progress. In the past I was a poor
student and was miserable. Now I'm a rather well to do working chump and only
slightly less miserable. If I were to happen upon a million dollar deal
tomorrow I'm sure I would find something to take issue with. It's in my nature
and I accept it.

------
erikb
Instead of 80% of the people I would say 100% of the people, but 80% of the
time. Everybody has phases when their whole life just sucks and phases when
they feel great and super successful.

------
skrebbel
Oh come on. Everybody complains. All the time. Depending on who and where you
are, you'll complain about hunger or about that annoying co-worker down the
hall, but you'll complain.

This is all right. I'd say that taking what you have for granted and
complaining about what you don't is human nature. But it does not mean that
people despise their lives. It means they like to complain.

Asking people, as a stranger, about "their careers" gives them a cue to
complain. This makes the results even worse.

------
dillon
Not a very convincing article, you'd need way more than one reporter to get
this kind of information. He also bases this off of what he thinks other
people think just by talking to them (not saying this article isn't true, just
saying the validity is off)

------
adrianwaj
I take the view of differentiating life from life situation (from the Power of
Now.) There is a fight for survival, and the threats to life to me are not so
much a bad job, but the putrid environment we live in, from food, to air to
water and a body full of heavy metals and past traumas, to which none realizes
they have and to which none can do anything about - they then blame their job.

At the same time, I am super grateful I can function as a typical human can,
and not bound up with some terrible disease or insurmountable physical
challenge, and not living in the third world. The grass is always greener
until you have none.

------
nazgulnarsil
Revealed preference generally agrees with the author's point. If we regard the
degree to which people value their lives in terms of how much money they'll
pay to avoid an x% risk of their life ending the numbers are, in general,
shockingly low.

Of course we can talk about how inconsistent people's preferences are all
night.

My hypothesis is that people are unhappy mainly when they have few allies
(people with similar values). I believe that there are certain physiological
reactions that take place when you are among those you identify strongly with
and that if this never or almost never happens a general malaise is the
result.

------
cgopalan
Like Christopher McCandless (upon whom the book and movie "Into the Wild" is
based) rightly said: "Careers are a 20th century invention".

Not saying everybody should do what he did, but I have come to increasingly
believe that everything should be questioned when it comes to choosing a
livelihood - even the assumption that one needs to work for a living - since
its going to be a big part of your life.

------
usedtolurk
This is horoscope writing. A less fashionable, but equally true example might
be: 80% of People are Secretly Satisfied with Their Lives

------
wormwood28
"The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. What is called resignation
is confirmed desperation." Henry David Thoreau from /Walden/

------
john_horton
According to the Pew Research Center, 89% of people who are not self-employed
report being "completely" or "mostly" satisfied with their work; the
percentage for the self-employed is even higher, at 95%.

[http://pewsocialtrends.org/2009/09/17/take-this-job-and-
love...](http://pewsocialtrends.org/2009/09/17/take-this-job-and-love-it/)

~~~
potatolicious
I have my doubts about this - as a previous poster mentioned, ego is a huge
part of it, so my suspicion is that you are going to get a pretty extreme bias
when you let people self-report on this.

Around me, I do not believe 9 out of 10 people I know are "completely" or
"mostly" satisfied with their jobs. The number if substantially less.

~~~
baha_man
"...you are going to get a pretty extreme bias when you let people self-report
on this."

How else are you going to find out if someone's happy with their job?

------
DMalloy
People are always most likely to discover their own thoughts and beliefs in
the reactions of other people - so unhappy people do. A sorrow shared is a
sorrow halved, even if it means to lie to yourself.

I strongly believe that the one reason for unhappyness, bad personality, and
even physical sickness is -not trying- to reach what you wanted to reach.

------
arous
According to Dr. Susan Turk Charles, a psychologist at the University of
California in Irvine, the opening assumption of the article is invalid.

[http://news.softpedia.com/news/People-Get-Happier-as-They-
Ge...](http://news.softpedia.com/news/People-Get-Happier-as-They-Get-
Older-118823.shtml)

~~~
morganls
Two different definitions of old - the author seems to be saying as people get
older while still in the working realm [so maybe, 20-65 or so] while the study
talks about the elderly/seniors. So not necessarily conflicting [and it might
make sense that a person gets more and more dissatisfied as they get older and
opportunities slip away until they finally let go of those regrets and become
satisfied with their lot]. More on age/happiness:

[http://www.slate.com/toolbar.aspx?action=print&id=230055...](http://www.slate.com/toolbar.aspx?action=print&id=2300558)

------
sien
It was better as a song than a blog post:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mATf3SAqj30>

(Avenue Q)

------
AnthonBerg
True. Easy problem to fix. Modern man isn't grateful; it's not difficult to
become grateful.

------
gizzlon
80% of People who use statistics make them up

~~~
Hisoka
including yours?

~~~
gizzlon
I only make up 30% of them

------
freakwit
The other 20% loudly despise their lives?

------
BasDirks
Bullshit title. Happiness is not Boolean.

~~~
palish
Pssh, whatever man. My happiness can be modeled as: enum Boolean { TRUE,
FALSE, SOCKS_NOT_FOUND };

~~~
nandemo
Relevant design pattern:

<http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/What_Is_Truth_0x3f_.aspx>

------
anamax
Note that much of "society" tells people that they have it rotten as part of a
"you'll be so much better off if you {buy our soap, vote for our candidate}".

