
Ask HN: Wrist pain and recovery - top_post
Lately I&#x27;ve been experiencing wrist pain while using my mouse, something after 16 solid years and seeing numerous other stories of occurring I&#x27;d never had an issue with myself. The pain or more noticable discomfort continues beyond using the computer and seems to be on certain angles. I just purchased a trackball, the slow down in navigation is pretty noticeable and I feel is impacting my performance where I&#x27;d usually complete things quicker. I&#x27;m curious if others have experienced the same and what they did to manage or completely recover from it?
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4010dell
Before you go on spending on Ergonomic what not setup. Try therapy. Google it
first - kind of pain (sharp or constant ) you have , exactly where you have (
thumb side or ulnar side), what movements are restricted by affliction, is it
nerves or muscle etc...spend sometime finding what you have. Consult doctor if
you have to. Start therapy ...most of the time it's stretching/compressing
exercise once or twice a day. You can easily see the improvements once you do
therapy.

I recently suffered from ulnar entrapment syndrome ...googled it, watched
videos, did suggested stretching for 2 weeks i guess. All healed.

~~~
jakobegger
This is really bad advise.

1) If you need therapy, see a specialist, don‘t just google it. Your google
diagnosis is probably wrong.

2) Therapy is a last result, will ease pain in the short term. But the pain
will come back if you don‘t stop doing whatever causd the pain in the first
place.

~~~
switch007
EDIT: replied hastily, you of course said "don't JUST google it"

> 1) If you need therapy, see a specialist, don‘t just google it.

This is rather country (and wealth-profile) specific. In England, often you
need to really push GPs to take anything seriously or even do a blood test (in
your 5-10 minute appointment). Doing some basic research before visiting can
be useful. (I've even done a "yes I'm stupid googling things...so prove me
wrong" act).

~~~
jakobegger
I agree, GPs aren‘t always helpful. I was thinking more along the lines of an
orthopedist, a neurologist, or a physical therapist — people that have a lot
of experience with the kind of problem you have. They can usually tell you in
seconds what‘s wrong with your google diagnosis that seemed to fit all the
symptoms. That‘s my experience, at least.

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adamhorne
Get a vertical mouse. Now. I used to get wrist pain and tennis elbow (lateral
epicondylitis) and it was the difference between working, or not. I highly
recommend anything from Evoluent.

And use the pomodoro technique where you can (20 mins on, 5 mins off).

~~~
DeltaWhy
I can recommend the Anker vertical mouse as a budget option. I use that at
home and a large trackball (Kensington Expert Mouse) at work, with a block of
foam under one side so it sits at an angle. I found a small trackball to be
more painful than a normal mouse, but the large one is an improvement and I
didn't have any trouble adjusting to it. But YMMV.

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horsawlarway
I had exactly the same issue about 2 years ago. Long hours of mouse use and I
was suddenly getting pain in my wrist.

I did the following:

1\. Use the trackball, but do it left handed.

It doesn't slow you down any more than it does learning to use it right
handed, but it gives your right hand a break (and yes, it totally SUCKS for
about 3 weeks, and then you're roughly as productive).

2\. Take a serious look at your mouse.

If you have any of the "magic mice" that support gestures, ditch that shit as
fast as possible. Holding your fingers arched like that for long periods does
damage.

If you don't have that mouse, look for two things:

\- Very light weight (yes, a super cheap lightweight mouse is better than a
heavy "ergonomic" mouse in most cases).

\- Able to rest your fingers. You need to be able to relax the tendons in your
hand/wrist, and you can't do that if you're supporting your fingers in the air
(part of why the magic mouse is literally the devil).

3\. After a month or two of using the trackball, feel free to switch back to
using a decent mouse like normal. In my case, eliminating a magic mouse and
giving my hand/wrist a few months to heal did the trick.

4\. If none of the above helps, contact a therapist.

------
jakobegger
I started to have pain in my finger tips, wrist and in my back, resulting from
bad posture and devices with poor ergonomics (Apple mouse + laptop).

Realising that at age 30 this is a bad sign, I invested around 2000€ on a more
ergonomic setup:

\- a proper chair (I got a Vitra ID, but there are lots of good options out
there)

\- an electric height-adjustable desk

\- an external display mounted on an Ergotron LX monitor mount

\- a mechanical split ergonomic keyboard (Matias)

\- an ergonomic mouse (Logitech MX Master)

My setup allows me to stand (which I occasionally do), but it‘s amazing how
much difference it makes even when sitting. I can adjust desk / chair /
monitor so my arms and neck are in a relaxed position. After a few weeks, the
pain in my hand went away.

Getting the right equipment is really important. I have short legs, so
standard desks are too high for me. A lot of cheap chairs are not adjustable
enough (too high on their lowest setting).

Invest in ergonomics, and consider your entire setup. A trackpad instead of a
mouse won‘t help if your wrist is at the wrong angle because of a desk that
has the wrong height.

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dpc_pw
I had wrist/hand pains twice, especially during using mouse, and in both
cases, it was my own fault.

The first time, I think, it was because of me over-using AC during the
commute. It would blow on my hands, and it struck me as a possible fault one
day. After I changed my behavior, the discomfort started to go away in a
matter of days, disappearing completely in a week or so.

The second time, it was due to a standing desk at new day-job. I've noticed
that I have a bad habit of leaning on my hands when standing at the desk and
putting some stress on them. I limited the time I am standing, and I'm more
careful about it now.

My point is: watch your body, watch what you're doing, and think what could be
affecting you. There is plenty of possible causes, and it's most efficient if
you get a good sense of what makes your body hurt. It might be something more
medical too, but doesn't have to be.

------
uno7
I had really bad wrist pain from having a computer-related job for >10 years
and spending my nights gaming on my PC (probably also from bad posture). One
thing that helped me a lot was switching to my left hand for mousing. At first
it was horrible, because I'm definitely not ambidextrous, but after several
weeks I got good enough with it such that it didn't make much of a difference
anymore. I would switch back to my right hand if something was urgent and I
needed to be fast.

Now after a few years I can left-hand mouse as if it was my right hand and my
right wrist feels fine. When my left wrist starts to feel a bit sore, I just
switch back to the right hand for a few days/weeks. Variety of movements helps
a lot.

If I was you I would also try to take frequent breaks and do exercise
regularly, if you don't already. You will just feel better overall if you're
in good shape.

Good luck!

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cbanek
I've had so many ergo problems. Here's some things I'd suggest:

1\. Try different mice, as people suggested

2\. Watch the height of your desk. Is your desk too high? Is your wrist
kinked? I love my sit stand desk for this, sometimes just moving the surface
up or down half an inch makes a huge difference. Keep it moving over time so
you don't get locked in.

3\. Wrist exercises, both stretching and grip strength. Get a pair of grippers
from amazon ([https://www.amazon.com/Captains-Crush-Hand-Gripper-
Point/dp/...](https://www.amazon.com/Captains-Crush-Hand-Gripper-
Point/dp/B006G377UQ/ref=sr_1_8?s=sports-and-
fitness&ie=UTF8&qid=1504724656&sr=1-8&keywords=grip+strength+trainer))

Working on strengthening your forearm might help as well.

------
fauigerzigerk
Two things have worked for me.

(a) Switching hands.

(b) Trying to use the mouse and the keyboard without constantly forcing the
hand into a horizontal position (right hand thumb pointing left). Instead I
got into a habit of holding the mouse in a more (not completely) vertical
position (thumb up) and pressing the mouse button with the side of my finger.

------
BrendanD
My solution (on a desktop) was to temporarily switch from a right handed mouse
to using an ambidextrous trackball with my left hand, and a wrist rest for
both my keyboard and trackball. I am _not_ ambidextrous. I also wore a custom
made wrist rest-splint while working and sleeping. After a year or so, I
returned to a right handed mouse and continue to use a gel filled wrist rest
for both the keyboard and mouse. If using a full sized keyboard, get one
without a numpad.

Get a rest-splint for your wrist. Your injuries will not heal without rest.

EDIT: remembered my wrist-splint was bespoke

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seasoup
Ive had severe wrist pain before, saw occupational therapists, was diagnosed
with repetitive stress disorder, changed hands for the mice, tried trackballs,
trackpads, ergonomic mice, the only thing that worked for me was getting a
Wacom tablet. It turned out that it was clicking the mouse button that
aggravated my wrist. Been pain free for years except when I play too much with
my phone. It takes about a week to get used to the tablet but I actually
prefer it to the mouse now, even when not taking into account the wrist pain.
Good luck.

------
sriram_malhar
1\. Take a break for a week or two. I used the time to learn stuff and write
down everything by hand. Every gadget you acquire is for after you have
recovered. Don't exercise either ... you'll only worsen the inflammation.

2\. Google "wrist pain stretches". Do them religiously, regularly (every time
you have a break) and carefully.

3\. Alternate ice and hot towels a few times a day. This really improves
recovery time.

4\. Work on your posture. Check Esther Gokhale's TED talk.

~~~
welder
Stop using the mouse, switch to trackpad centered below your spacebar so it's
less wrist movement. Try using your other hand for a few weeks.

------
Wildgoose
Been there. One set of (otherwise paired) muscles gets inflamed.

The two things that helped me were: (a) Microsoft Trackball Explorer which is
a lovely ergonomically shaped mouse - providing you are right-handed. (b)
Tennis ball (or similar) to squeeze which helps build up both sets of muscles
and thereby helping "rebalance" your wrist muscles.

------
Shikadi
Vertical or tilted mice help a lot, and keeping your arm nearly level so
you're not bending your wrist a lot. Also, personally I prefer a wider grip
mouse for gaming, because I have a tendency to death grip smaller mice, but
that's probably only relevant if you game

------
seren
Never having experienced any discomfort myself, but maybe you could try to buy
an ergonomic mouse, which are basically "vertical" move. It is apparently
better because you don't have to "twist" your hand. And it is probably closer
to a real mouse.

------
anotheryou
Testing mobile apps in the emulator caused my pain. I mapped the mouse-button
to keyboard key for my left hand.

For browsing I use browser plugins that help navigating wtih the keyboard
(saka keys e.g.)

------
jwilliams
Lots of good advice here. I'll try in an additional left field one - get a
good backpack. Use both straps. Don't carry too much weight.

------
moretai
Has anyone who has been regularly lifting and exercising experienced wrist
pain due to computer overuse?

~~~
scott_usa
No, but I've experienced wrist pain due to weight overuse. On heavy push
exercises, I use these now [https://www.roguefitness.com/rogue-wrist-wraps-
red-black](https://www.roguefitness.com/rogue-wrist-wraps-red-black).
Additionally, when possible, I use a false grip to give my thumbs a break.

To answer OP's question, I've worn this for two years when I do long duration
typing and mouse (non-trackball style) work. Its portable and discreet. Its
helped me and I recommend it to everyone who has carpal tunnel syndrome.
[https://www.amazon.com/Carpal-Mate-Wrist-Support-
Black/dp/B0...](https://www.amazon.com/Carpal-Mate-Wrist-Support-
Black/dp/B000ME3MMM?th=1)

------
pvaldes
Try a wacom pen. Different grip.

------
brudgers
I've experienced various types of computing ergonomic pains since I started
using computers. I bought my first computer with a mouse in 1988. Within the
first couple of years, I bought my first trackball.[1] It was my main mouse,
for a couple of years, but I was spending a lot of time with regular mice at
school and then work. A decade later, I got my second trackball [2]. In
between I had settled on a particular Logitech mouse that ceased manufacture.
My reason for describing my trackballs[3] is context for my random internet
advice:

 _Large scale ergonomic are more likely to be the long term problem than the
small scale ergonomics of mouse versus trackball._

My second trackball relieved mouse pain for a while, but long sessions at the
computer still could produce pain in my mouse hand...or trackball hand as the
case may be. Big long lasting improvement came from purchasing a new desk [4]
with a well rounded corners where the top plane of the work surface meets the
side edges. The large radius (say 1cm or more) eliminates the pressure point
where my forearm starts to rest on the desktop.

The folding table pretty much solved my problems with mouse hand pain...when I
could use it, but most of the workplaces I've worked in had bring your own
desk policies...and one actively upgraded all of us to glass desktops while I
worked there because glass desks looked stylish.[5]

So these days, I don't have mouse hand pain because I don't use a mouse (in
anger for long periods). I use a laptop with a trackpoint and trackpad. I use
as many keyboard shortcuts as I can remember. I try to learn the command line.
If I had a touchscreen on my laptop, I'd use that too.

Which of course means I use a laptop to eliminate mouse hand pain. I also use
it to eliminate keyboard related pain by sitting the laptop in my lap. Because
it sits in my lap, I eliminate the pains associated with finding the perfect
office chair and desk combination...and lighting, don't forget the effects of
dealing with bad lighting on posture and display positioning. I primarily use
a lounge chair [6] instead of a desk.

Finally, I still experience pain from bad ergonomics from time to time. When I
do:

\+ I identify the coarser grained ergonomic issues.

\+ I stretch my hands. Arm extended palm down. With the other hand, bend all
the fingers together up and back to and past a right angle. Googling "carpal
tunnel stretch" was how I found that.

Good luck.

[1]: Like this with a cheap tiny extra push button added for the second mouse
button.
[http://www.richardlagendijk.nl/foto/cip/joystick_wico_trackb...](http://www.richardlagendijk.nl/foto/cip/joystick_wico_trackball_01.jpg)

[2]: Yes, that's a PS/2 Mouseport. It probably shipped with a DB9 serial port
adapter as well. [https://d2ydh70d4b5xgv.cloudfront.net/images/e/a/logitech-
tr...](https://d2ydh70d4b5xgv.cloudfront.net/images/e/a/logitech-trackman-t-
ch11-wired-trackball-ps2-mouse-tested-and-working-free-
ship-f341ae7edbca2c4f445998ddf377ec7c.jpg)

[3]: Besides get off my lawn nostalgia and a strange kind of joy that suddenly
recollecting the old Amiga trackball brought me seven minutes into the in-head
composition of this comment.

[4]: Well actually a folding table with a molded top. Probably similar to
this, but I would inspect the corner in person:
[http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/office/tables/folding/port...](http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/office/tables/folding/portable-
plastic-folding-
table?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=EAIaIQobChMItqy80cqQ1gIVWVgNCh1UKQKiEAYYASABEgJKwfD_BwE)

[5]: That's what you get working for a corporate VP of design in an
organization where design is pretty pictures.

[6]: Ikea Poang with Ottoman

------
lathiat
I haven't had problems with my wrist, however I have had with my shoulders as
I am fairly large my arms are even further out than many causing the bend back
of the wrist onto a traditional keyboard to be problematic. It's the same
problem as causing wrist issues for many but I found the impact on my
shoulders greater in my case.

Though excited by a number of custom ergonomic keyboard designs (a la ergodox
etc), I started using the Microsoft Ergonomic keyboards about 2y ago,
specifically the Sculpt Ergonomic and later the Surface Ergonomic. That has
helped my comfort in that area a lot - and had a relatively low entry price
($100-200 AUD) versus some of the crazier keyboards. I would highly recommend
them. The sculpt ergonomic (older version) also had a front rest to raise it
to a kind of back angle. The newer Surface Ergonomic does not have that which
I miss, but it does have proper arrow keys, home/end/pgup/pgdown and function
keys. It also has a number pad which I dislike as it puts my trackpad further
to the right, the original Sculpt did not. Either way both of them were a huge
improvement and I would recommend either.

Secondarily laptops are DREADFUL for posture, because the screen is very low
and the keyboard often quite deep into the desk. I've found this causes both
slouching of myself to get to the keyboard and then my neck to look at the
monitor. So I gave up using a laptop and now use a desktop - though a keyboard
& mouse for your laptop is also a perfectly good solution! I have my monitors
raised up off the desk about 10-15cm more than the default stands would allow
(even a Dell fancy pants one) and find that is the best comfort for me. There
are also various guides online for how to best setup your keyboard & monitor
position, relatively also to your chair position. Arm angles etc. I'd suggest
finding an authoritative guide and following that.

I also use a trackpad - but not because of wrist issues - I have no idea if
that would help or hinder wrist issues (Google might know?). But from using a
Mac Laptop with a very good trackpad for many years, I much prefer them to
mice (actually I really dislike Mice) and so now I use a Logitech T650
trackpad on my desktop.

I would really like to move to a standing desk but I am a bit prohibited on
cost for that one right now. I need to save a little as I think its a
worthwild investment - but I think I want a desk that raises and lowers the
entire thing as opposed to the vari-desk style systems - partly related to the
fact I have 3x24-27" monitors. But it also needs to be fast & quiet.. mmm....
next project.

Lastly I would feel remiss not to refer you to your GP or some other kind of
specialist in this area. There are serious problems that can occur and require
treatment (a la Carpal Tunnel). You can read all the opinions you like but I
was never having real pain of any kind personally, just a bit of discomfort. I
decided to tweak my setup for the better. If you're already into the area of
pain, having someone look at it and potentially do some scans etc seems like a
highly valuable investment into both y our working future and your personal
comfort - I am fairly sure these issues can escalate if untreated. Your hands
are valuable.. don't mess around and at least investig ate it with
professional help!

------
apolymath
I purchased a device called the Ultimate Zapper which has completely
eliminated any joint pain I've had throughout my entire body, including
extreme wrist joint pain & lower back pain related to my career as a full
stack web developer. It cured the pain within 48 hours of using the device,
and it has so far had permanent effects.

