
A Lab-Grown Diamond Is Forever - nols
http://www.racked.com/2016/6/14/11872830/lab-grown-diamonds-synthetic
======
tsomctl
I strongly recommend you read the article "Diamonds are Bullshit"
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5403988](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5403988))
before reading this. To summarize, genuine diamonds are extremely plentiful.
It's just that De Beers has done an excellent job limiting the supply, to
artificially drive up the price. When synthetic diamonds first came out on the
market, De Beers started a succesful advertising campaign basically saying
that synthetic diamonds were inferior. The most interesting part of this
article is that De Beers' stranglehold on the market is starting to slip;
people are realizing that synthetic diamonds are good enough. It will be
extremely interesting to see their advertising campaign.

The march of technology carries on.

~~~
kefka
The lab-grown diamond people need a better angle, like this one:

Our diamonds are lab-grown, by people who are well treated, make a respectable
living, like you and I. Our diamonds are cruelty-free, Blood-free, and
sustainable.

~~~
gk1
They already market them that way. See Brilliant Earth's mission:

"At Brilliant Earth we strive to make jewelry as beautiful as it can be. We
are passionate about cultivating a more ethical, transparent, and sustainable
jewelry industry."

~~~
andyjdavis
That says essentially the same thing as what kefka put forward but,
unfortunately, in a much less compelling way.

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ourmandave
_Natural diamonds companies, for their part, are taking preventative measures
to ensure they don 't get edged out. ... On the first day of the show, a
newly-formed alliance of natural diamond companies called the Diamond
Producers Association unveiled a new marketing slogan: "Real is Rare." The
campaign, which goes live in September, targets young shoppers who crave real
products "in a world of superficial interactions," according to a press
release the DPA put out. There's no mention of synthetics in the release, but
it's clear the tagline implies that lab-grown diamonds aren't "real."_

Don't count the mined diamond suppliers out yet. It's been all about marketing
for decades so this is just the first shot.

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HillaryBriss
Buried in that article I found this little gem: _...lab-grown diamonds are
identical in structure and appearance to natural ones. They are, however, much
cheaper. Baruch says savings may be as high as 40 percent in some cases..._

All this noise about a lousy forty percent discount? I was looking for a
ninety eight percent discount. I was looking for diamonds flowing out of our
faucets like water.

Meh.

~~~
Sharlin
The whole _raison d 'être_ of gemstones is to be expensive! Diamonds for non-
ornamental usage are already dirt cheap. If jewellery-grade diamonds were to
drastically drop in price, nobody would want them anymore.

~~~
thaumasiotes
People still want cubic zirconia. Diamonds are technically superior in several
ways; at the same price you'd see at least as much demand.

~~~
vidarh
People often want a look-a-like product _because_ the alternative is
expensive. If the diamond price nosedived, I'm sure there'd still be some
demand, but it would also remove a significant reason for people to want
anything that looks like diamonds.

Demand might still be there because it looks nice, but whether that combined
with the lower price would make overall demand go up or down is anyones guess.

~~~
thaumasiotes
I think this is a good point, but I have some disorganized thoughts in
response:

I don't think people often want a product specifically because it looks like
something expensive, since there are two factors at play that severely
undermine using a lookalike to appear richer than you are: (1) Most of the
people you interact with already have a good sense of whether you can afford
the real, expensive, thing or whether you'd need to buy the lookalike; and (2)
people who have one genuinely expensive thing generally have a lot of other
expensive things, but you (the generic you) don't, making it difficult to
carry off the impression.

People definitely do often want a product specifically because it is _itself_
expensive; I find wanting a product because some _other_ product is expensive
somewhat farfetched. You'd have to be targeting people you rarely interact
with.

I have a small collection of synthetic gemstones, and when I show them off to
other people the responses have generally fallen into one of three groups:
"Huh. What's the point of having those?"; "Wow, they're beautiful!"; or "They
look fake." (I'm not sure what the group 3 people imagine gemstones are
supposed to look like.) Demand in group 2 will rise with a price drop. I met
one girl who made it clear that she loved my clear cubic zirconia despite my
telling her it was only an imitation diamond and suggesting that I preferred
the colored stones.

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tzm
I own a jewelry store (inherited from 1945) and grew up in the industry as a
kid, so I'll humour myself with anecdotal feedback:

Although I'm engineer, I have a professional background in the diamond
industry. A friend of mine, an astrophysicist working on focal points, wanted
a high quality diamond. I helped him secure an 'investment grade' gem. At
first I proposed a lab grown diamond from Diamond Foundry to see how he
responded as he understands and appreciates optics far better than I
(technically), although I could argue my position as a gemologist.

His response: he quickly turned down the option and wanted a natural stone,
not lab grown. I found it slightly strange (from a technical standpoint), but
understood his response.

We secured a rare IF 1.5ct certified diamond in Tel Aviv.

Natural diamonds are valued more on scarcity and irrational conditions. To
sell a lab grown diamond, it may help to sell the story of the lab and the
diamond cutter.

~~~
golergka
I think you mean Ramat Gan; although it's just across the highway from diamond
exchange, it's technically a different city. (My only connection to the
industry is working next door to Rappaport).

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grondilu
How long until someone is capable of making really big diamonds? I mean big
like a soccer ball or something?

Is it silly to wonder if we will one day be able to use diamond as a
structural material?

~~~
userbinator
If they become really affordable, I'd love to have a giant, soccer-ball-sized
diamond just for the fun of owning an enormous ultra-hard object that once
used to be super-rare and expensive. The optical properties of a huge diamond
would probably be quite interesting too.

~~~
spacemanmatt
Gallagher will drop one off a building for grins. I can't wait!

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jimmcslim
The article always referred to the artificial diamonds as 'synthetics'. Other
articles called them 'cultured' diamonds - drawing comparisons with pearls -
which is a far better sounding term from a marketing perspective IMHO.

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clarkmoody
I couldn't help but recall the "Submarine" [1] essay from PG, which made me
wonder if this entire article wasn't just a huge PR piece written by the lab-
grown diamond company.

[1]
[http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html](http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html)

~~~
ghaff
How do you think the vast majority of articles in this general vein end up
happening?

PR people reach out to reporters with stories that (they hope) said reporters
will find interesting for themselves and their readers. It's how things work.
Hopefully, the story still ends up being sufficiently researched but, in most
cases, the reporter or their editor didn't just wake up one morning and decide
this would be an interesting story.

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davedx
Fuck De Beers.

I bought my fiancee a lab diamond last year, for ethical reasons (nice to read
it is better for the environment too). The lower price allowed me to get a
better stone, too.

I cannot understand the mindset that rejects lab grown diamonds. It is the
pinacle of selfish, ignorant consumerism.

~~~
ajnin
If you reject De Beers why would you still choose to buy a diamond to your
fiancee? De Beers were the ones that completely made up the diamond engagement
ring business through advertising. It didn't exist before them.

A diamond ring doesn't exactly scream 'anti-consumerism' either, it has
practically no use and is valued only because it is expensive. To me it says
'look how important money is in my life'.

~~~
dagw
_De Beers were the ones that completely made up the diamond engagement ring
business through advertising. It didn 't exist before them._ _De Beers were
the ones that completely made up the diamond engagement ring business_

I don't think that's true. My grandmother's engagement ring for example was
diamond and that was before the whole DeBeers thing started. What De Beers did
do was move diamond from being just one of many possible options to being that
only possible option for an engagement ring.

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billpg
If they're successful, the people who run the dirt-diamond industry may end up
bankrupt and digging for scraps of food on the streets.

I really can't see a down-side.

~~~
LoSboccacc
Na I expect either the industry will get into the hip of 'organic' diamond
(they already used impurities giving a more nuanced color as differentiator)
or will just expand laws to prevent sales of synths as jewlery.

They already lobbyed the laws once after all and they aren't shorter on cash
this time around so..

~~~
kefka
"Certified Blood-Diamond free"

"Cruelty-free"

~~~
jonathankoren
The Kimberly Process[0] from what I understand is pretty much bullshit. It
purports to certify diamonds as being "conflict free", but there a numerous
loopholes and laundering the source of the diamonds is trivial.

That's why the diamond I bought came from Canada.

[0]
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimberley_Process_Certificat...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimberley_Process_Certification_Scheme)

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chmike
What is not discussed is the benefit that diamond substrate could have in the
IC industry. It conducts heat much better than silicon. The first time I heard
that I found it crazy, but now that synthetic diamonds can be produced cheaper
and faster that idea is not that crazy anymore.

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6nf
I was very disappointed to find that synthetic diamonds are not that much
cheaper than natural ones. I'm not sure why you'd buy a synthetic since it has
almost no resale value and you're not saving much on the purchase either.

~~~
eric-hu
Diamonds have poor resale value period.

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jonathankoren
I have friend that when she was looking for an engagement ring desperately
tried to find a synthetic fashion grade diamond, but couldn't anywhere. She
was really bummed. She wanted the lab grown one as testament to science.

~~~
princeb
as far as my limited experience goes, diamonds are a dime a dozen... BUT gem-
quality diamonds are extremely rare, even synthetic ones. if you need to buy
IF/F with an ideal cut at 0.5cts and above, it's going to be pricey, lab grown
or not. the lab process will introduce colour and flaws in the diamond just as
the natural process does.

~~~
ridgeguy
The lab processes introduce color and flaws only if they're wanted.

The old way of making diamonds, growing them in metallic solvents at pressures
over 50K atmospheres (where diamond is the thermodynamically stable form of
carbon) produced crystals with metallic solvent inclusions and other flaws
that would distinguish them from naturals. It was hard but not impossible to
make a D flawless gem with HPHT methods. It was never economical because of
the equipment capital cost and slow growth rate required for that type of
diamond.

The microwave plasma chemical vapor deposition (CVD) can make D flawless gems
routinely and cheaply. Using hydrogen and methane as the source gases, one can
make very nice colorless rough which can be further improved with a short
post-deposition high temperature anneal in hydrogen plasma. Laser cutting and
conventional faceting then give you a very nice DF rock.

If you want colored diamonds, boron in the synthesis gas gives blue. Other
treatments give the full color spectrum.

It is possible to tell CVD synthetics from naturals, but it's not easy. Flaws
and inclusions aren't usually helpful. It takes sophisticated absorption and
luminescence spectroscopy to see optical features that uniquely identify CVD
gems. Most jewelers don't yet have this capability.

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avmich
I wonder when it's possible to 3D-print the necessary shape. Given the
material properties, the results could be, eh, really good.

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VeejayRampay
I'm genuinely interested because I cannot believe diamonds are still such a
hit in 2016: why are people buying them?

~~~
pif
The only value in diamonds is their price.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
They're useful for drills, cutting disks; they look pretty when cut. Don't
know about their other uses but they clearly have some utility.

------
Cypher
I used to study next to a lab that made synthetic diamonds, the cost was about
$50. Far far less than the 'savings' the article claims.

------
jostmey
So the entire industry of diamond squatting is on the verge of collapse, that
is unless DeBeers buys out these labs.

~~~
ridgeguy
DeBeers isn't buying out the labs. They're suing the labs for patent
infringement [1].

The technology barrier to entry is low. If you have the tech chops and can
spend $30K, you can do a DIY microwave plasma system and grow your own
diamonds. I do this at home. Buying the extant labs won't inhibit subsequent
competitors entering the business. And neither will lawsuits, in the long run.
IP has a limited life.

I think the brain of the DeBeers dinosaur has finally noticed the mammals
gnawing on its tail, and is responding in the only way it knows how. They
would be better served to go into the synthetic business themselves, using
their marketing resources and > 1 century of branding weight to carve out a
new business sector. DeBeers is not a fast mover, so I don't expect this to
happen.

[1] [http://www.business-standard.com/article/markets/de-beers-
gr...](http://www.business-standard.com/article/markets/de-beers-group-firm-
initiates-legal-suit-against-competitor-116012000484_1.html)

~~~
dharma1
What size diamonds can you make with your gear and how long does it take?
Could you scale/automate the operation easily?

~~~
ridgeguy
Mine is mainly for research on plasma chemistry, so it's not set up for
maximum deposition rate, which is an important parameter for commercial
viability. I've made a 3.8 ct. unpolished stone in a 4 day run. If I were to
do the laser trim (gets rid of the off-orientation edge growth) and send it
out to be cut and polished, it would yield a nice DF brilliant-cut stone of ~
1.25ct. weight. At retail, that might sell for ~$10K.

Systems optimized for commercial production will get to that weight in less
than 24 hours with multiple substrates. Typically, they'll grow 10 - 25 stones
at once. They do this by using much higher microwave power (typically 30-60kW)
at a lower frequency (915MHz) which gives a larger plasma so they can cover
multiple substrates. My system is 2kW @ 2.45GHz (same as microwave ovens), so
its throughput is non-commercial. But it's a nice research tool for
investigating how plasma chemistry affects diamond growth. And it's fun to
grow diamonds in my garden shed! :-)

~~~
tcpekin
What kind of research are you doing? Sounds pretty cool!

~~~
ridgeguy
I'm trying to optimize growth rate and quality as functions of plasma power
density, deposition gas composition, pressure and substrate temperature. I
think there's a lot of process improvement yet to be found.

In the biz environment, you typically get to something that has "good enough"
economics, and you start shipping. At that point, you're afraid to touch the
deposition equipment for fear of screwing up deliverables. This tends to
freeze production economics at far less than what's possible.

I'm poking around to find the next 10x reduction in deposition costs.
Everybody should be able to afford diamond doorknobs, don't you think?

