
The 'Silent' Aircraft Initiative - alexandros
http://silentaircraft.org/sax40
======
tlb
There are good reasons why conventional aircraft have their engines on
separate pods. They get clean airflow, whereas in the Silent design a
wing/body stall would also disrupt air intake to the engines giving a sudden
loss in thrust just when you need it most. Not to mention the extra difficulty
of maintenance and inspection. And the fact that chunks of ice separating from
the body fly right into the turbine.

I could live without windows. Have a few cameras connected to the LCD screens
in the seats. Should save a lot of weight and drag.

~~~
borism
Exactly. Even nowadays how many people have window seat on a widebody? some
20-25%. AVOD and external cameras can do wonders, I really like setup on
Emirates.

Other problems are solvable too (aircraft is not meant to accumulate ice, you
know ;) and airlines will buy anyway if fuel savings are that good in real
life.

~~~
cwan
I suspect it'd still be a tough sell for aircraft manufacturers - especially
for long range flights. I do 14-16 hour flights frequently and although I
might not be seated next to a window knowing that they're there is sort of
nice when I get up to stretch legs. Otherwise you're asking people get into
basically a cave for that period of time which might be claustrophobic to even
those who don't normally get claustrophobic.

Another issue might be the amount of sea sickness you might encounter given
that at least having a horizon line that people can focus on helps. On the
other hand... on a 14-16 hour flight if I save 50% or in the case of this like
20% to have windows versus not having windows even when not seated next to
one, I might suck it up.

As a frequent traveller, I much prefer to get an aisle seat anyway.

~~~
borism
So you like both aisle and window? Well, on this thing I guess you may get
both, unlike on conventional designs!

~~~
cwan
I like the existence of the windows - which I can still sort of see on the
aisles but hate sitting at the window because of the need to step over people
to get to either the washrooms or the overhead compartment. It's especially
important on those long overseas flights...

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akamaka
These guys aren't the only ones working on this. Here's a couple of links to
some interesting concepts Boeing is exploring:

2006 article, with more detail:
[http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/200...](http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2002973147_boeingconcepts05.html)

2009 article, newer but with less detail:
[http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/runway-girl/2009/03/pic-
bo...](http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/runway-girl/2009/03/pic-boeing-
reveals-ideas-for-f.html)

The Boeing low-noise concept seems to already incorporate the same basic
ideas: engines on top, to deflect noise away from the ground, and redesigned
wings (presumably for a steeper final approach).

~~~
kevbin
The SAI concept looks a lot like some of the Boeing Sonic Cruiser concepts
from a few years back, like this one:
[http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w238/Christopher_Cvel/114...](http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w238/Christopher_Cvel/11459402906rM971.jpg)

The SAI and early cruiser concepts both have winglets, but the later cruiser
concepts have raked wingtips, like the 767-400:
[http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_17/wingti...](http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_17/wingtip_devices.html)

I'd love to see how a floor-plan like this works in practice:
<http://www.aviationexplorer.com/pics/future_airliners6.jpg> Seems like the
airlines and airport authorities would need to come-up with some better
queueing/loading processes.

~~~
streety
Would this really be an issue? In my experience the biggest hold up is people
in the aisles putting their bags in the overhead lockers and edging into their
seats while you're trying to get past to your seat. In the image you linked to
the although there are more aisles each is shorter so there would be fewer
people in front of you blocking your aisle.

------
anigbrowl
Last update in 2006 :-(

Then again, you could kind of guess this was doomed to failure for commercial
passenger use: no windows. I doubt we'll see more than incremental
improvements in aircraft design for another decade, especially not from
Europe; everyone loved the look of the Concord but it never made money. Too
bad, because quieter aircraft are a Good Thing.

edit: thanks for that update Boris, good to hear.

~~~
borism
last news is that in January 2009 NASA joined with funding as part of it's own
studies
[http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?cha...](http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?channel=awst&id=news/aw020209p1.xml&headline=NASA%20Backs%20Hybrid%20Wing/Body%20to%20Meet%20Environmental%20Goals)

so I wouldn't write this off yet.

quote from the article: "NASA has not consulted the airlines to gauge their
interest in the hybrid wing/body (HWB) - its generic term for the BWB. Instead
its research is driven by internal studies that indicate the unconventional
configuration is the only way to meet the aggressive environmental targets it
has set for "N+2 generation" aircraft to be available around 2020."

~~~
billswift
Considering how much NASA has actually accomplished in the last several
decades, that is probably the kiss of death for any actual plane.

~~~
borism
What's actual accomplishment for you? Winning a manned race to the moon and
building first reusable space plane?

There's enormous amount of research being done there that's not as visible,
but significantly more important. NASA won't be building planes anyway.

What's also nice about this is that it's mostly open source.

Just take it and build your own startup on top of it!

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ardit33
1\. no windows. Did they account for the extra drag once the windows get
added?

2\. A very wide-body plane like that, is problematic. You are going to have
very wide rows (like 12-16 abreast), and the people that are in the rear-
sides, will experience very unpleasant "roller coaster" effects when the plane
does sharp turns, as they are so far from the central axis.

~~~
Dove
Sharp turns? In commercial aviation?

~~~
borism
yeah. no sharp turns or sharp pitch ups (see other poster's concern about
engines not getting enough air) for this bird. fine by me for an airliner.

How would windows add drag I don't get? Actually you can be a lot more
creative with windows on this thing.

------
mhb
Maybe they could do leaf blowers next.

