
It’s called vomit fraud. And it could make your Uber trip really expensive - rrauenza
https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-uber-vomit-fraud-20180724-story.html
======
AndrewKemendo
This is yet another example of what happens as a result of the "race to
bottom" for wages and compensation for Uber/Lyft drivers.

These drivers are looking for any way that they can to make their work barely
profitable, because just letting the algorithm "Manna[1]" them around a city
ends up being barely break even after all costs are added in.

So that's why you get the calls asking where you're going so they can get long
trips (especially around airports), the "oh not I got into an accident, can
you cancel the trip?" calls, etc... Not to mention the drivers who are stuck
with high interest loans on cars from Uber.

It's marginal labor inputs for a marginalized workforce - and an increasingly
immigrant one, which is great generally but correlates to the easily
exploitable. So while I don't condone this kind of behavior, I can see why
they would feel pushed into doing it - especially if it's relatively
retribution free.

[1][http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm](http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm)

~~~
ravenstine
Uber is the worst, especially if you are an Uber Eats driver. They just
recently increased the drive radius while lowering pay. The app doesn't
encourage customers to tip, either, whereas a tip is default in other apps
like GrubHub(then again, DoorDash steals tips so they can pay less in fees).

Unfortunately, not enough people use Lyft so those who don't like Uber are
still forced to "multi-app" with Uber rather than relying on it as a sole
source of income.

It's companies like Uber that make the US unemployment rate bullshit; people
can be independent contractors, get treated like trash by "unicorns" like
Uber, get paid shit, and be considered employed by the Bureau of Labor
Statistics. You can make a living working multiple gig economy jobs, but it's
hardly sustainable.

~~~
isostatic
I don’t understand tipping. Service offered for $x. Contract accepted.
Contract completed. Service delivered. Funds transferred.

~~~
andrepd
It's a way for employers to shift, by way of ingrained culture, some of the
labour costs onto the customer.

~~~
isostatic
I had a tiler round on Monday. He quoted £200, I paid £200. Job done.

The entire cost of his Labour was borne by me, yet I didn’t tip him.

Is it a tax evasion scheme, and thus a tax subsidy for certain professions?

~~~
andrepd
I don't quite understand what you mean by this.

If it wasn't clear, what I meant is: employer under pays employee with the
expectation that customer will pick up the slack via tipping.

~~~
isostatic
Pay $20 for something and no tip Pay $15 for something and $5 tip

It's identical, expect I suspect the $5 tip isn't taxed

------
jnbiche
Yeah, I'm sure some incidents of this kind of fraud have happened, but I'm
skeptical it happens often, simply because of driver incentives (ie, why make
a quick hundred bucks if it's at the risk of never making any additional Uber
income ever again).

Also, I'm totally skeptical of the guy complaining of _two_ vomit frauds
committed against him in one evening. Far more likely is that he blacked out
and then threw up twice in different vehicles, or he's simply too embarrassed
to admit it.

~~~
WalterGR
_Far more likely is..._

Yes. The statistics bear this out.

------
wiseleo
On the flip side, $150 is an insufficient cleaning fee. Driver loses all
revenue for the rest of the day and the cost of professional detailing often
exceeds that amount. It should be a minimum of $300.

It once took me 4 hours to clean my car after an incident that involved my
sliding door mechanism. Cleaning quote for that exceeded $300.

And that smell... ugh!!!

Edit: vomit incident.

~~~
VectorLock
Did someone throw up on your sliding door mechanism?

~~~
Bluestrike2
Probably blood.

~~~
VectorLock
Maybe. The "ugh the smell" made me believe vomit.

~~~
Bluestrike2
Completely missed that. Oops.

------
Bluestrike2
I'd assume that the drivers keep a bunch of photos of actual vomit on their
phones, and then just use them when they decide to commit a bit of vomit
fraud?

If that's the case, then Uber should at least save the submitted photos and
implement some minor automated procedures to raise the bar from _effectively
zero_ to just a few millimeters above. Check the EXIF data and compare it to
the ride data, and compare the photos to old ones. When a vomit charge is
disputed, Uber employees could compare the submitted photos to old ones in
case a driver took a bunch of different photos from different angles. Or if
they want to put more effort into things, control the camera directly from the
Uber driver app and _only allow photos taken from the app_ to be submitted.

It wouldn't solve the problem, but Uber could at least put a minor speed bump
in front of would-be fraudsters.

~~~
tantalor
Okay but
[https://www.google.com/search?q=fake+vomit&tbm=isch](https://www.google.com/search?q=fake+vomit&tbm=isch)

~~~
Bluestrike2
I guess you could whip up a batch of fake vomit. But then you have to actually
clean up the fake vomit, thereby incurring the very costs (both money and
time) the fee was meant to compensate you for. If you use the gimmicky plastic
variety, I'd think it'd be pretty obvious in photos. Especially if you only
buy one fake vomit piece.

But I was thinking more in terms of catching at least some of the fraud
attempts and making it a bit riskier as a deterrence, rather than a foolproof
detection method.

------
code_duck
How could their systems allow a charge for a trip with a cancellation, and
also a fee for vomit on that trip?

“I see that it was an uncomfortable experience, because the driver started the
trip without you in the car, which should not happen.”

also, that plainly does not make sense.

------
sudosteph
After a particularly terrible uber experience in Miami (driver swerved
terribly the whole time, didn't understand english enough to recognize that we
were asking him to pull over because I was nauseated), I thought this would be
about drivers intentionally making passengers motion sick so they could extort
cash from them (ie: pay up or I'll report you). But this makes a lot more
sense. I don't see a fair solution other than requiring video footage, which
unfortunately would just be another expense for legitimate drivers.

~~~
BadassFractal
I had an Uber driver tell me years ago he would sometimes shake people up
extra hard when it was his last ride of the day at 2-3am Fri/Sat and the
passengers looked like they were ready to pop. He claimed to know a guy who
would be able to clean up for only $50, and Uber would pay him an extra $200
for the inconvenience. It was a nice occasional $150 boost.

Still, doesn't seem scalable. Also not super pleasant to have that done to
your car unless you're renting it. Every time I would tell other Uber drivers
this story, they would just laugh and not believe it.

------
vinni2
I get following message when I open the link.

“Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European
countries. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options
that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market. We continue
to identify technical compliance solutions that will provide all readers with
our award-winning journalism”

------
lobo_tuerto
The easy thing to do for the driver (for legitimate cases), is to take a
picture/video of the passenger while still on the car right after the
incident.

For the passengers, just take a picture of the interior after you get off an
uber vehicle.

------
Simulacra
Yes, but wouldn't you then dispute the charge with your credit card company?

~~~
mathrawka

       Despite several email exchanges, Uber never agreed to
       reimburse her the extra money. But she disputed the
       charge with her credit card company and got back her
       $98. Uber then canceled her account.

~~~
xkcd-sucks
Typically companies store CC info hashed with a per account salt, so you can
sign up for another account with the same credit card

~~~
toomanybeersies
Uber will ban you by name, so you can't just use a new card.

~~~
waterhouse
Surely names aren't a unique identifier? "John Smith" et al. Would they keep
around other information and use that?

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Sohcahtoa82
I wonder if this is a thing at all with Lyft.

If its a problem with both services, it's dishonest to target Uber
specifically.

EDIT: A quick Google search indicates it's likely a problem in both Lyft and
Uber.

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leephillips
Yet another reason to use taxis:

[https://lee-phillips.org/lyfthuh/](https://lee-phillips.org/lyfthuh/)

~~~
mikeash
That post reminds me of late-night TV commercials for bizarre gadgets, which
try to sell you on their nonsense by showing videos of ordinary people
completely failing to accomplish easy household tasks.

~~~
Sohcahtoa82
It's easy to laugh at them, but generally those products are actually being
sold to people with disabilities.

~~~
mikeash
Interesting. You'd think they would show people with disabilities in the
ads... unless they were going for the mental sort.

~~~
Sohcahtoa82
My guess is that if they showed people with disabilities using them, able-
bodied people would be less likely to buy them. They might admit some product
might actually be kind of handy, but seeing it used by the disabled in an ad
would implicitly send the message that it's for disabled people and not buy
it.

------
playpause
> Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European
> countries.

~~~
isostatic
“Unfortunately we take your life and sell it to criminal gangs for 2.6 cents
and Europe insists you have to explicitly allow you to happen”

------
antongribok
I wonder if you can push your case with Uber by threatening to sue for
defamation of character.

Also, I wonder if a request for metadata of the photos would help resolve this
in your favor.

