
Pending Postal Service Changes Could Delay Mail and Deliveries - 8bitsrule
https://www.npr.org/2020/07/29/894799516/pending-postal-service-changes-could-delay-mail-and-deliveries-advocates-warn
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RemingtonLak
But isn't this kinda obvious? Current WH administration is dead set to stop
mailin voting. They've found a way to make that happen. I think we're all
missing the obvious here.

~~~
ars
I've seen this conspiracy theory many times, but no one has yet explained how
a day or two delay will stop mailin voting.

People also somehow think that the post office won't be able to deliver so
much mail. Which also doesn't make sense, it's a single envelope per house,
they deliver more junk mail than that.

Edit: I should add I'm 100% in favor of mailin votes always, not just now. I
simply do not believe that this postal slowdown is in any way connected to
those who oppose it. And that's for the simple reason that it can't accomplish
that.

~~~
ianleeclark
There's no conspiracy theory. It's historical record the lengths this country
has gone to disenfranchise votes: 3/5ths personhood, poll taxes, literacy
tests, multiple hour-long queues, shuttering most poll stations for large
populations, warehouses left full of voting machines, and, seriously, just go
look at Dan Crenshaw's district. You don't have to "stop mailin voting," you
just have to make it unreliable and burdensome.

There's no conspiracy here, it's out in the public for all to see.

~~~
andor
For comparison, it takes me about 15 minutes to go voting in Germany. That
includes walking to the polling station, someone checking my id and me
checking a few boxes on a paper ballot.

There is usually no queue and we don't have voting machines because they can
be easily manipulated, as has been demonstrated a number of times.

Elections are held on Sundays, when most shops are closed, so that everyone
can participate.

~~~
amanaplanacanal
In the US, elections are held by the states, not the national government. So
it is up to the states where and how many polling stations there are.
Depending on the party in charge at the state level, this has been used to
make it more difficult for certain sectors of the population to vote.

~~~
addicted
In times of COVID, however, mail only voting is the best alternative.

And the USPS has informed states that it may take up to 2 weeks to deliver
mailed ballots.

What that means is for mail in votes to count (which again, will be more
popular considering COVID) on Nov 4th, you will need to mail your vote by Oct
20th to guarantee it reaches assuming USPS is correct in its 2 week estimate.

The current administration is already laying down the foundation for votes
that reach after Nov 4, even if they were postmarked before (which I believe
is all that is needed) to be rejected. He tweeted today that the votes must be
counted by the end of Nov 4 otherwise they would be illegitimate.

~~~
ars
> He tweeted today that the votes must be counted by the end of Nov 4
> otherwise they would be illegitimate.

He tweets lots of stupid things. It's not actually true. Each state can make
their own rules on postmark vs receipt date.

People seem to forget that voting in this country was designed to work in a
time where it took 2 months to count all the votes, with the result arriving
by horse. Nothing has changed in the rules since then.

People will be annoyed at waiting if there is a delay, but nothing will
actually break.

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justinzollars
I worked on a USPS integration for years. I have mixed feelings about the USPS
but one thing is clear. They price incorrectly. It should have never been less
expensive to ship a parcel from Beijing to Washington, then from Detroit to
Washington.

Many of USPS' problems could be solved simply by raising prices. The USPS
clearly wins business on the last mile service level, and it would open up new
opportunity for others to deliver Amazon packages if prices went up.

One other little known fact about the USPS is they cut lucrative deals for big
customers. Negotiated Rates (NSA) can allows companies such as Amazon to buy
postage at a significant discount. These deals should be eliminated. Why
should a poor person pay more for postage than Jeff Bezos to ship the same
thing?

From left field this is one of my ideas: Post offices could be replaced by
adopting a NinjaVan model. Why can't every corner store in San Francisco be a
post office? It would be amazing.

~~~
PaywallBuster
Netherlands already moved post offices into a small corner shops.

Portugal has been adding more services like telecom and banking.

~~~
AnssiH
Same in Finland. I believe under 15 Posti-operated dedicated post offices
remain - just yesterday they closed their former HQ post office in the Post
Building:
[https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/end_of_an_era_as_posti_ex...](https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/end_of_an_era_as_posti_exits_former_helsinki_head_office/11455654)

There are 900 post offices and approx. 2000 parcel lockers (population 5.5M).

They have also taken steps due to the dramatically decreased amount of mail in
the last decade (over 50% down since 2010 - this year yearly decrease has been
15-20% so far):

\- Yearly price increases of letter mail (50g letter stamp is now at 1.75€).

\- Slowed down the basic letter services (first class stamped letter went from
1 day to 4 days).

\- Reduced delivery frequency (no mail delivery on Tuesdays if possible).

\- Mail may now be delivered later during the day.

And of course large layoffs, which have probably resulted in a reduction of
service quality - public complaints seem to have increased.

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eranimo
It looks like it's being setup to fail by the administration

~~~
exogeny
Yes.

First, so that it can be privatized and turned over to the free market, for
which I will offer no opinion. That can be argued effectively to no real end
on both sides, similar to a discussion about Amtrak or farming subsidies.

Second, the fact that the Postmaster is a Trump acolyte in an election year
where there will be a record number of vote-by-mail responses should tell you
all you need to know about what the true motivations are.

~~~
lykr0n
The one thing that bothers me about the vote for mail stuff: We vote in
November, but the actual electoral college stuff happens in December.

The certification happens a lot later then election night. There is 0 way you
can slow the USPS down enough for it to matter.

~~~
thephyber
Mail in ballots still need to get to the voter before Election Day. If the
voter doesn’t deliver it to a post office or a poll station before Election
Day it doesn’t get counted. Can you imagine how pissed people will be if
Election Day rolls around and fewer than 50% of mail-in voters have been
delivered ballots? Taxation without representation doesn’t go over well in the
USA.

Yes, people can go to a polling place and file a provisional, but the whole
point of mail-in is so we don’t have to. Also, with COVID affecting older
people more than younger, there may be a shortage of poll workers.

Also prep time: The county election office needs a reliable estimate of how
long the mail leg will take so they can target the process of printing and
sending the voter package. They need to be able to print some of the packages
on short notice for newly registered voters and party affiliation changes.

~~~
ars
The voters are sent ballots weeks in advance. A day or two delay makes no
difference.

~~~
thephyber
If that's an accurate description of the delay, then I agree.

However, I've seen tweets suggesting that recent (since COVID lockdowns)
delays of more than a week are currently not uncommon and I don't have any
evidence that the USPS is shrinking their backlog right now. Given the current
trajectory (eg. the current Postmaster General is denying overtime), I expect
the possibility of many ballots missing delivery by Election Day unless USPS
prioritizes those deliveries.

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xenospn
I send hundreds of packages a month. Last two years were great - almost
everything would always get there within 2-3 days with minimal delays. About a
month ago it started to get really bad all at once. Packages from CA to OH
routed through HI (what?), packages reported as delivered disappearing with no
record, etc. we’ll see what happens in Black Friday and cyber Monday. I
predict a lot of ruined christmases.

~~~
atotic
I suspect something unusual is happening too. I've been watching a tiny
package I ordered being shipped from San Mateo to Palo Alto via UPS. It has
been 7 days, and for the last 4 days its status in San Leandro has been:
"Package departed UPS Mail Innovations facility enroute to USPS for induction"
Can't wait for that dark chocolate cocoa floss!

~~~
jonchang
Have you considered that the "unusual" coronavirus pandemic might be the cause
of your mail delays?

~~~
atotic
Maybe. I receive several packages a week, and this is the first time I've seen
a weird delay since the pandemic started. That's why I found it unusual.

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monksy
Considering how bad it is in Chicago. I can't imagine how bad it's going to
get.

What really ticks me off is that it's tolerated that they're that bad. They
won't even mark a package as delayed. They'll intentionally scan it as
delivered right before the end of "window of delivery" and deliver it when
they feel like it. Could be tomorrow could be next week.

~~~
Firerouge
I'm in a small city of ~40k.

The same sort of shenanigans are happening here.

Amazon is reporting packages as handed over to carrier very early in the
morning, but all packages are getting ingress scanned either right before
delivery one day later, or about an hour after all the trucks depart with
their delivers for that day.

I haven't had a single package of about 8 be undelayed by the USPS in the last
two months, and the delay had been two days on some.

It's gotten bad enough that Amazon is shipping to me with UPS a lot more than
they used to

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coderintherye
One thing of interest, I was very recently contacted by USPS, did a user
interview with them and was subsequently put in touch with an account
representative. That feels like a positive change.

On the other hand, our packages (all sent via Priority Mail which is supposed
to be 2-3 business days though has changed to 2-4 business days) have been
getting delayed recently and in some cases taking as long as 14 days.

~~~
gumby
Yeah I recently sent something overnight to NYC. It didn’t even leave San
Francisco for four days. Tried to contact the post office but no response.

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defertoreptar
Going to be the devil's advocate on this one. The current policy creates an
incentive for unnecessary overtime. That can distort the real demand for
labor. Eliminating the incentive could allow the USPS to find out the actual
demand, and hire the right number of workers to get the mail out on time.

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tails4e
What's interesting is while this is happening I'm seeing a strong push in
placed like reddit for folks to register to vote by mail. It kind of feels
like election interference - intentionally slow down the mail, and at the same
time encourage Democrats to vote by mail.

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ars
Does anyone else remember maybe 10 or 20 years ago the post office did this
whole restructure to significantly increase speed?

It used to take 5 days for first class mail and they reduced it to 2, at
significant cost, but they were trying to complete with email.

Seems like we are going back to those days. But maybe it doesn't matter, do
many people really rely on mail speed these days when you can send an email?

~~~
fedorareis
Saying as 90% of my packages are delivered by USPS, yes I care about mail
speed. Letters aren’t the only thing handled by the post office. Also when I
need to get my credit card replaced for some reason you better believe I care
about speed of delivery. I’m sure I could list more examples.

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timw4mail
They aren't already?

I've seen USPS tracking be very misleading, with Expected Delivery by
8:00PM...and the next day the same status, until finally you see Out for
Delivery, which is the day it will actually arrive.

Between the terrible tracking, and the occasional goofy routing detours, USPS
is doing themselves no favors.

~~~
magicnubs
Three times in the past year, I've had packages marked as "Delivered at/in
mailbox" that weren't actually delivered until 2-3 days later. The most recent
was particularly worrying, since it contained my new passport (which I'd
already been waiting on for 5 months since passport processing had mostly been
shut down due to COVID). This was at different addresses, with different local
USPS destination facilities.

It seems they're aware that it's an issue, since it says in their FAQ "package
may show as 'delivered' but could take additional 24 hours". I assume it
happens when they get behind somehow and just mark a lot of stuff delivered to
meet their metrics.

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leptoniscool
>> late-arriving mail will now be left behind by carriers and delivered the
next day. Overtime will be eliminated.

This is a pretty negative change, without overtime the whole system will move
like molasses.

