
If iPads are “post-pc devices” why must I sync with iTunes before I can use one? - g0atbutt
http://thestartupfoundry.com/2011/03/05/if-ipads-are-%E2%80%9Cpost-pc-devices%E2%80%9D-why-must-i-sync-with-itunes-before-i-can-use-one/
======
raganwald
In "Marketing Warfare," Al Reis and Jack Trout give a rule of thumb: Never
build your strategy around an opponent's weakness. Build it around their
strength. Why? because weaknesses can be fixed. Strengths cannot be fixed
without undermining an opponent's own strategy.

From this, I get that there are two kinds of problems with a product or
service: A weakness, which is something bad that is orthogonal to a product's
value proposition, and a drawback, which is an integral part of the value
proposition. An example of an Apple drawback would have been its one button
mouse for many years: During the period when many Mac buyers were first-time
computer users, the single button was part of the simplicity of the interface,
but it also was annoying to those who had more experience and wanted more
power at their fingertips.

I remember this when thinking about tethering my iPad. This is a weakness, not
a drawback. It can certainly be fixed without undermining the iPad's value
proposition. If somebody starts selling a lot of tablets that sync to the
cloud, Apple can release a firmware or iOS update that syncs to the cloud and
boom, no more weakness.

It's annoying but it isn't deeply tied to the iPad's value proposition. So I
predict that if and when Apple thinks it is more of a hinderance than a help,
it will be changed, and the change will be fairly painless.

~~~
6ren
This seems to be another way of describing disruption (and I like it):

Companies serve their customers. They improve their product along a dimension
that their customers want. Equivalent to your "weakness" - as soon as their
customers care about this, they work hard to fix it.

If you create an alternative product for those very same customers (and for
the very same use) that's not as good in that dimension, they won't buy it. If
it's better on that dimension (a sustaining innovation), the incumbents will
work hard to beat it - and historically, they usually will, as they have all
kinds of advantages over you.

But if you build for different customers, who currently have nothing, they
will be delighted, and the incumbent won't care because you don't threaten
their customers. Now, usually such a product will have other benefits that the
competitor's product lacks - at the very least, a cheaper price, but maybe
also convenience, flexibility, customizability, simplicity etc. This benefit
is usually a result of a tradeoff against the above dimension - a "drawback".

Over time, you naturally will improve your product, and (perhaps) it will
approach being good enough to threaten that competitor. But even as they see
you approach, they really can't fight you, because it would require they let
down their customers. And, what's even worse, at this new way of doing things,
_you_ are now the incumbent, with all the experience with engineering,
customer acquisition and business model etc, and they are the entrant.

But I think you add a new idea to disruption, that the "drawback" is
_incompatible_ with the value proposition, as opposed to being orthogonal.
Different business models are often like that; also many engineering
tradeoffs. It's exacerbated by when you improve at something, you often
specialize in it; and specialization in one thing implies de-specialization in
something else.

Note that such incompatibilities are not restricted to engineering issues: if
Apple somehow became dependent on tethering, or on iPad users requiring an
Apple desktop, as part of their _business model_ , it would then become a
"drawback", that you could attack on.

~~~
raganwald
Nice observation, I never tied Reis & Trout's explanation to disruption quite
like that. They were describing a "Flanking Attack" which really fits with
what you're describing quite well. And yes, the incompatibility is the key.

Going back to The Innovator's Dilemma, this explains why companies become
trapped by their customers: Their existing customers _hate_ anything that
addresses the drawback because it is incompatible with the value proposition
that appeals to them.

Although Microsoft won the battle by burying Netscape, they seem to have lost
the Internet war, in large part because the Internet is incompatible with the
value proposition of operating systems and desktop office productivity
software. For example, the Internet does away with installing software
binaries. Which is a drawback of desktop software and operating systems. But
that is incompatible with the value proposition that an IT department gets to
control what runs on an office computer.

~~~
wvenable
The Microsoft example is a good one because Apple inadvertently stumbled on
the solution. At first, with the iPhone, Apple embraced the idea of the device
simply being a consumer of the web without any dedicated apps[1]. That is
effectively Microsoft's nightmare. However, the app store quite effectively
mitigated the advantages of web and they've had an explosive growth of native
apps despite the existence of a strong browser.

Microsoft lost the Internet war, not necessarily because the Internet is
incompatible with desktop but because they never actually competed. Instead
they tried to smother it. Honestly though, before the app store, I'm not sure
_anyone_ knew how one could compete with the web.

[1] Assuming that wasn't the strategy all along.

------
hristov
This really really annoys me about the ipad. Furthermore, for some extra
annoyance, Itunes does not run on linux, so I cannot run it. And even after I
secured a windows computer to run itunes, I discovered that itunes is a really
slow, extremely badly designed, confusing and annoying piece of software. It
took me forever to upgrade my ipad to the new os.

~~~
code_duck
I hear a lot of complaints about iTunes, but it works pretty well for me - on
a Mac. Are you using the Windows version?

~~~
SwellJoe
iTunes is, perhaps, the least intuitive piece of software I've used in the
past decade. I have, on three separate occasions now, deleted my entire music
collection on the PC while trying to get music from the machine onto the iPod
or iPhone. It's happened once on a Mac and twice on the Windows version of
iTunes. I no longer even install iTunes, because I'm afraid of it. (I use an
Android phone now, don't have an iPad, and I never liked it for listening to
music on the desktop, so I don't need it for anything.)

But, I find a lot of Apple software really hard to use and frustrating,
including the OS itself, so I tend to refer to myself as Appletarded. I may be
an outlier; just not wired up to understand Apple user interfaces.

~~~
eitland
You are not alone. I've been using Mac OS X for two years and can't belive why
the company that came up with iPad and iPhone still

\- have global menus (who really wants that with todays screen resolutions and
two monitors?)

\- needs the worlds best trackpads because their laptop keyboards have
misplaced ctrl and their default keybindings are so inconsistent that users
would be lost without a good pointing device.

\- forces developers to use the fn key to reach the function keys, but even
then, maps some of the F-keys to operating system functions.

\- doesn't get multiple desktops? Don't ask me why they ship them, because
their window management is so broken that multiple desktops just doesn't work,
at least not for me.

This becomes increasingly frustrating as

\- none of the other manufacturers "gets" tablets even less ships them,

\- none of them was capable of coming up with mag safe,

\- Microsoft doesn't have the balls to stop OEMs from crippling a perfectly
good enough (for less advanced users at least) operating system

\- and Canonical have crippled Gnome to the point where you can't shut down
your computer without either using a pointing device or resorting to a shell.

Edit: Forgot iTunes. Try have someone who doesn't know iTunes burn a cd.
(Hint: You have to make a playlist out of it, then burn that playlist to a
cd.) Also tried to tidy up this rant.

~~~
bane
You forgot

\- can only resize a window from one corner, and that corner may be off the
screen in certain cases so that you can't move the window to a position where
the corner is even visible (this just bit me this week)

\- still doesn't understand how to fullscreen programs (windows maximize
function is the single best OS function I've seen that allows a user to focus
on just ONE thing). I think this is fixed in the upcoming OS X but I don't
have it.

\- liters the screen, the doc, the global menu with all kinds of state icons
to show running programs and background services, but doesn't have a built-in
notification system so that the users have to install <http://growl.info/>

and more and more.

That said, it still manages to be a great OS. It was miles ahead of XP. About
par with Vista.

But sadly, it's lagging behind Windows 7. And the new OS X versions just don't
make me terribly excited. I'm ready for something new.

~~~
l0nwlf
Adding few more.

\- No cut-paste.

\- No tabs in Finder.

\- The missing delete key. (Backspace is renamed as delete)

\- The not-so-modern Terminal. (hence the wide usage of iTerm)

~~~
jamroom
\- Command-C / Command-V for cut and paste in OS X (if that's what you're
looking for) \- TotalFinder is a nice Finder replacement:
<http://totalfinder.binaryage.com/> \- includes tabs and some other nifty
features.

Hope that helps a bit...

~~~
l0nwlf
Command-C / Command-V is copy-paste. Also I do use TotalFinder as a finder
replacement. :)

~~~
slyn
Command+x is cut, same as ctrl+x on windows. Might be application specific as
I only tried in Chrome and Textedit but I'm fairly certain it is OS wide.

~~~
JadeNB
> Command+x is cut, same as ctrl+x on windows. Might be application specific
> as I only tried in Chrome and Textedit but I'm fairly certain it is OS wide.

As mdaniel (<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2294066>) mentions, it
bizarrely does _not_ work in one very specific, and presumably intentional,
place—the Finder.

------
jsz0
We're in a transitional period. The vast majority of people who have iPads
_do_ have a PC of some kind also. For now it's the most practical way of doing
backups, updates, and syncing large amounts of content. I do think Apple will
move in the direction of not requiring a PC for these things but it's non-
trival. How do you sync 16-64GB of data over 3G? Do you push 300MB+ updates to
someone with a 150MB/month data cap? 2GB? How, and where, do you sync
purchased content? How do you backup the device? This is a very important
feature iTunes provides that most people won't even notice until they have
some need to restore a device.

The newest iOS update has modified the way OS updates work by not erasing/re-
syncing the device. I suspect this is one of the first steps towards moving to
a more OTA existence for the iPad. They still need to trim down these updates
so they're not killing people's caps. Everything on the content side is going
to require a lot more work. If you look at Android for example that does just
about everything OTA you realize that a) Google doesn't really sell content so
they don't care how or if you get anything on your device. Figure it out
yourself. b) Android doesn't backup automatically. Some of your data is synced
to Google Services but if you flush your Android phone down the toilet by
mistake you're going to lose all your application data and content you synced,
or created, on the device. Again -- figure it out yourself if you want a good
backup c) Google doesn't update all their devices at the same time. There will
never be 100 million+ Android devices trying to download android3.0.tar.gz at
the same time. It's a bigger challenge for Apple to do OTA updates given their
strategy to update all compatible iOS devices at the same time. I'm not trying
to bash Google, their system is fine, but people make it sound like this super
trivial thing to divorce post-PC devices from the PC. It's not. Google has
been able to do this through minimalism. They don't take any responsibility
for updates/backups/syncing so it's a bit easier for them to pull this off
right now. If you use Google Exchange with an iOS device you get most of the
same benefits in-fact.

Apple could easily divorce the activation-via-PC step but it would set the
expectation that you don't need to connect it to a PC _ever_ for normal
operation/update/syncing. When they do remove the activation-via-PC step you
can be sure everything else won't require a PC connection. It will be all or
nothing. That's how Apple tends to operate.

~~~
mckoss
I'll have to disagree with most of what you say here.

I would attribute Apple's decision not to divorce the iPad from a PC to their
desire to assert some presence onto the PC ecosystem. They don't want to be be
JUST your tablet OS, they want to be on the desktop, by forcing installation
of iTunes onto Windows machines as well.

This way, both products reenforce each other, and they can get increased
market share on devices and onto Windows machines (with an activated credit
card so you can purchase music directly on the PC).

Apple is ultra-competitive and they do not want to cede any niche of the
market that they have managed to gain. Even though the experience of using
iTunes, especially on Windows, is horrendous (for all of the reasons already
stated in this thread). That's that only logical explanation for maintaining
this extra complexity by a company that is otherwise brilliant at simplifying
the user experience.

BTW, I do think Google has approached this with a much better vision -
treating an Android device as a first-class network citizen. Google _does_
sell content (app market as well as enable 3rd party music stores), most
Android apps integrate some form of cloud storage for your data (which don't
have to be managed by Google) - if you switch your device, you'll not likely
loose anything important to you.

Updates also work very well over the WiFi network - no need to use your low-
bandwidth data plan.

Overall, I don't see this as a technical hurdle for Apple - they just have a
conflict of interest in locking up users vs. giving them the best user
experience.

~~~
ryanwaggoner
_Updates also work very well over the WiFi network - no need to use your low-
bandwidth data plan._

If you don't have a computer, you're unlikely to have a wifi router.

~~~
bad_user
Hotels have wifi routers, coffee shops have wifi routers, libraries have wifi
routers, airports have wifi routers, conference rooms have wifi routers - even
the park area I'm visiting with my kid has open wifi access.

Heck, when I have jailbroken my iPhone with jailbreakme a couple of months
ago; I was drinking coffee in a coffee shop that had wifi; and I had no laptop
and no wifi router with me ;)

Suggesting that Apple requires iOS to sync with the PC for any reason other
than keeping customers locked in iTunes is silly.

------
SoftwareMaven
We talk a lot about "lean startups" here. I think this is an example of Apple
being lean and going where the market has taken them. My guess is that, as
they were building the iPad, they had a hunch things could go this way (e.g.
"post-pc device"), but weren't sure. Rather than spend billions building out
an infrastructure on a hunch, they build the device and have followed the
market.

The market is saying the iPad is "post-pc", so Apple will (eventually) get
there. And we'll likely be charged for the privilege (most likely through
MobileMe).

Personally, it is a huge complaint I have. I would love to switch my mother to
an iPad, but the requirement to continue having a PC doesn't make things
easier.

~~~
recoiledsnake
>The market is saying the iPad is "post-pc"

It is? How?

~~~
PostOnce
Do you not do all your coding, photo editing, FPS fragging, word processing,
and spreadsheets on an iPad yet? Don't you have one sitting in your basement
acting as a home media and web server? I'm not even going to get into how much
more upgradable they are than PCs. How could you ever possibly need more than
the few hundred megs of ram that an iPad has?

Dell might as well announce liquidation right now.

($75 on craigslist gets you a computer 3x as powerful with 3x as much ram and
10x+ as much disk space as an iPad, which only costs $500)

~~~
tomkarlo
Looking at Dell's price for the last 10 years (<http://yhoo.it/fCdFBo>), that
doesn't seem to be a great business to be in. The upgrade cycle is slowing,
margins are falling and the mainstream consumer just don't care much about the
"latest and greatest" any more when it comes to computers.

The reality is that for most users (non-gamers) the power of computers long
ago exceeded what they need. Does is really matter if a computer is 3X or 10X
faster than you need?

This is a classic market transition where once performance hits some level,
other product attributes become important to consumers because they no longer
see any material benefit from marginal performance increases.

If you're mostly using your computer to check email and facebook, you don't
need a quad core.

(This applies to even fairly tech-heavy folks - I used to replace my desktop
like clockwork every two years for almost 15 years, but I'm typing on this on
a 4+-year-old MacBook black that's still plenty fast for coding, image
processing and web browsing. I expect I'll use it at least another year and I
only paid $1500 for it to start with. I'll prob replace it with a 13" MacBook
Air, which won't be much of a performance bump - it will be a form factor
bump.)

I remember the days when it was all about having the 386/33 or whatever the
latest top-of-the-line Mhz was. Now I doubt if you asked most folks, they
could even tell you how fast the processor is in their system. It just doesn't
matter much any more, same as only car folks really care what BHP their engine
delivers these days.

~~~
recoiledsnake
So in 10 years, when everyone has speedy tablets (and PCs?), won't the same
thing happen?

~~~
tomkarlo
No... if performance is already sufficient for most tablet users (and I'd
argue it is - as an iPad owner I have my complaints but "it's too slow" it's
really high on the list) then you won't see this happen. It will be some other
product feature, like weight, or battery life, or cost, that will be the axis
that you see competition focused on.

Marketing folks would love to have consumer focus on a metrics like
performance that constantly keeps growing and outdating old products. Other
metrics, like price and customer experience, are often just as important to
buyers.

To give a parallel example, I don't think most HDTV owners are going to
replace their set at this point for higher resolution. If you have 720 you
probably don't care all that much about 1080 unless you're an AV geek. So that
market is now competing on two other axes: cost (how cheap can you get it for
a given size) and they're also pushing 3D.

------
mooism2
This is one reason I don't have an iPhone. None of my laptops can run iTunes.

(Yes, I know running Ubuntu makes me an outlier, but still.)

------
allertonm
The author seems to assume that Apple is either unaware of the contradiction
or aware of it with no plan to change. In other words, that the management of
Apple is either stupid or blind. Recent history does not suggest that either
is the case.

It seems more likely to me that Apple is very much aware of the contradiction
but has plans to change this, but no intention of telling us about it yet.

Gotta wonder what that huge data centre they are building is for, eh?

~~~
zaphar
The author mentions the data center and it's likelihood as a solution. His
point was that until that DC comes on line and is used as a solution it's
disingenuous to call the iPad a post-pc device because it isn't, it's a
peripheral.

If and when they fix that then you can start calling a post-pc device.

Meanwhile an Android pad really is a post-pc device right now no waiting.

~~~
rbarooah
What can you do with an Android pad that you can't do with an iPad bought
unlocked from the store?

~~~
darklajid
Transfer music and data from/to the device using your favorite OS and well-
known applications, for one.

~~~
rbarooah
So, you can't sync your music with a Linux machine. That's it, really?

~~~
trotsky
Watch 90% of the streaming video out there? Use your choice of fully
functional browsers? Download and listen to Amazon MP3 store purchases? Run
arbitrary software, even if it's competitive to the platform provider? Mount a
usb flash drive?

I'm not sure that was the list that you were looking for, but there it is. How
post-PC is it really if every time you have to do something Steve Jobs might
not approve of you need to borrow someone's laptop?

~~~
rbarooah
The 90% of streaming video claim is utterly false - it's at least 54% and
climbing very fast. If we're going to do this, let's at least not just make
stuff up.

([http://www.loopinsight.com/2010/10/27/54-of-web-video-is-
now...](http://www.loopinsight.com/2010/10/27/54-of-web-video-is-now-html5/))

The closed platform argument is perfectly valid, but has nothing to do with
whether we're moving into the world of Post PC devices or not.

It's pretty obvious that we're never going to get away from the PC era if we
have to drag along all of the legacy.

Why not list things like "run windows apps" and "run gnome" for good measure?

~~~
trotsky
I'm going to skip most of your comments, because if you're trying to equate
"download amazon mp3s" with "run (binary emulated) windows apps (built for a
different cpu)" you're clearly just looking to score points for the home team.

But as far as the "at least 54% of streaming video is html5" I had to laugh.
Yes, I realize you linked to someone who said it was true so it must be. I
take it, though, that you don't actually try to watch web video with nothing
but an html5 client - or you'd never have felt comfortable repeating that.
Statistics of course can be bent, and I'm sure what they're doing is weighting
for volume - and since youtube has 18 zillion videos and supports html5 that's
probably at least 40% of their number right there.

However, in the real world...

 _MeFeedia’s index includes over 33,000 publishers including Hulu, CBS, ABC,
YouTube, Vimeo, DailyMotion and others._

    
    
      Hulu: Hulu requires Flash Player 10.0.32 or higher. Please download and install the latest version of Flash Player before continuing. (Indeed, yes, you can pay $8/mo for a dedicated ipad client)
      CBS: Should work on the iPad - sadly, it only gave me: This content requires Adobe Flash Player 9. Please click here to install it.
      ABC: This content requires Adobe Flash Player - Ver 10.1. Click here to get the latest version of Flash (iPad? Download an app!)
      Youtube: It works!
      Vimeo: It works!
      Dailymotion: claims html5 support but no video plays (FAQ: Why is the video not playing? You might need to update you browser's Flash plug-in)
    

So OK, 33% (or maybe even 50%-66%) of their main list supporting html5 is
actually pretty good - and it's only 21% below their figure. The only problem?
That list is slow pitch softball, every single provider on that list publicly
supports iPad content in one way or another.

It almost makes you wonder, who paid for that survey?

Check a few more...

    
    
      FOX: We're Sorry! You need to update your flash player
      NBC: The NBC video experience requires flash
      Al Jazeera: We're Sorry! You need to update your flash player
      Comedy Central: To view this movie you need the Adobe Flash Player plugin. 
      Amazon Instant Video: You do not have a supported version of Adobe Flash, a requirement for watching Amazon Instant Video
      PBS: To view the full experience of this website, please download and install Adobe Flash Player 9.
      Metacafe: Needs flash
      IMDB: In order to play this video, you must have Flash 8 or higher installed on your computer
      Yahoo Video: Yahoo! Video requires a more recent version of the Adobe Flash Player.
      etc etc etc
    

Obviously, I could list those for pages. I think you get my point.

All tests done with Chrome + VP8 & Opera w/ gstreamer h.264. I couldn't find
my iPhone charging cable.

~~~
rbarooah
Why isn't weighting for volume appropriate? Sure, fewer than 54% of _sites_
may support HTML5 video. But who cares if those sites aren't where most of the
videos are?

You're trying to claim that your handpicked list of sites which deliberately
avoids sites that have publicly stated support for the iPad is a better
methodology? Who's looking to score one for the home team now?

I'd take this seriously if you found _any_ 3rd party support for your 90%
claim.

And yes, I do actually use an iPad for almost all my web video watching. I
don't use anything else at home. It works fine for almost all of the video I
come across while browsing - in fact it seems more like 80% the other way.

~~~
trotsky
Weighting for volume isn't appropriate because if I started up
html5videosofmybackyard.com and placed 5 second clips in 10 bitrates each of
the last 3 years of my backyard 24/7 the web wouldn't have magically become
25% less dependent on flash overnight.

I get it though. You really, really like your iPad. I'm going to go out on a
limb here and guess that you really, really like your MacBook Pro as well.
It's cool, they are both nice gadgets. I am sure Apple appreciates your
efforts as far as discounting any criticisms of the platform as invalid.

The lesson here is probably "don't ask questions you don't want the answers
to".

~~~
rbarooah
Your argument actually shows that weighting by volume is a necessity if you're
trying to represent people's experiences - which are driven by the likelihood
that each given video they want to watch will play - not by the abstract
number of videos in each format.

Some of your criticisms are valid - they're just minor and missing the point.

We're never going to move past the PC if we have to drag along all the legacy.
Most of that legacy exists to solve incidental issues and complexity than
offering end users with real capabilities. Far from not being what I wanted to
hear, the things you list are all in that category.

You'll always be able to score points by saying 'but my PC does XYZ'. But the
world in which we endlesskly drag along everything from the PC-era however
crummy or hard to use isn't one I'd want to advocate for however much of an
Apple hater I was.

------
richbradshaw
It's called "post-pc" because you use it after using your PC.

~~~
recoiledsnake
I know many people who use it in the bathroom in the morning. What device
should it be called?

/joke

~~~
HelloBeautiful
Calculo Bacillus ;=)

------
siglesias
actually they'll unlock it in the store if you don't own a PC.

~~~
g0atbutt
This is true, but I think a "post-pc" device should be able to stand on it's
own two legs.

Thanks for pointing this out, I meant to include it in my article.

~~~
mechanical_fish
_I think a "post-pc" device should be able to stand on it's own two legs._

Why?

I ask seriously. Your interpretation of the phrase _post-PC_ as "you don't
need to see a PC ever again" is just one interpretation, and perhaps not the
one that Steve Jobs meant. [1] It's a deliberately ambiguous term, like most
statements about trends and fashion.

He's talking about the PC _era_. Just because an era ends doesn't mean that
all its legacy goes away. Indeed, it can mean quite the opposite. The
mainframe era is over, and yet there may be more mainframes in existence now
than ever. The era of recorded music sales is, arguably, in decline, yet that
doesn't mean that we don't have recorded music anymore. In that particular
case, it means that recorded music has become so cheap and ubiquitous that
it's like air, so it's devalued and its profit margins have dwindled. Kind of
like PCs.

I've always felt that the iOS ecosystem was post-PC _not_ because it is trying
to replace the PC, but because its design is predicated on the assumption that
everyone who actually wants a PC has one by now. So of course iOS doesn't have
to support, say, emacs: If you want to run emacs you do so on your PC. If by
some miracle you want a PC but don't have one already, there's probably a
disused one sitting at a nearby garage sale marked "$25" that would do in a
pinch. And, more controversially, of _course_ iOS has a closed and curated
ecosystem: If you want an open ecosystem, pick up a PC for a few bucks.
They're all over the place. I had to throw away two of them last year.

\---

[1] I mean, not this year. Apple still _makes_ PCs. Surely they won't declare
the PC dead until they stop making them.

~~~
brisance
I have no idea why you were down-voted. Your explanation is cogent and similar
to what art historians mean by "postmodern art".

------
ugh
Realistically, people will continue to own multiple computers. Computers have
become very cheap, households can usually afford more than one.

For tablets to be successful “post-PC devices” it’s not necessary that people
stop buying and using PCs.

Still, it should be possible to get by without a cable. I don’t want to
transfer my 40GB media collection wirelessly just yet but the iPad is useful
without my media (and can wirelessly sync contacts, calendars, notes,
e-mails), there is no reason why I should be forced to connect to iTunes.

~~~
dman
You mean people who are relatively well to do in the grand scheme of things.

~~~
ugh
No, I don’t. If you could afford a computer ten years ago you can afford two
today.

~~~
dman
Ah that explains it, i grew up around plenty of people who couldnt afford a
computer ten years ago :)

~~~
ugh
If my memory is not failing me completely I would say that lower middle class
to maybe even down to slightly above the poverty level could afford some
computer ten years ago. A majority could buy a computer.

~~~
dman
I grew up in India where slightly above poverty level means an altogether
different thing.

~~~
ugh
Well, ok :)

I was viewing it from an overly western perspective. Countries like India or
China are especially interesting, they might be able to leapfrog certain
developments in Europe and North America, i.e. take a different path
altogether.

------
patrickaljord
Android devices are post-pc.

~~~
code_duck
Once the average Android device has a monitor output, they'll _really_ be
post-PC. And the big question is will the iOS devices have monitor outs?

Most of the Android device manufacturers don't have a horse in the
laptop/desktop race - Samsung, HTC, Motorola all only stand to gain by
replacing traditional desktop OSs. Apple probably _still_ wants to sell you a
MacBook. That's why I think Android will beat Apple to the true post-PC era.

~~~
czhiddy
"And the big question is will the iOS devices have monitor outs?"

They've already had 30-pin to VGA output for quite a while now, and now HDMI
out with the latest dongle accessory.

~~~
code_duck
Android phones will have monitor outs, though, not just the tablets. How about
the iPhone or iPod Touch? They could fit an Apple monitor connector in the
side of an iPhone, but I think it will be a long time before we see that.

~~~
czhiddy
<http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC552ZM/A>

"Watch slideshows and movies on the big screen by connecting your iPad, iPhone
4, or iPod touch (4th generation) to a TV, monitor, projector, or LCD display
that uses a VGA connector."

I haven't really looked into it much, so I don't know if apps are limited to
mirroring content, or if they can display another screen worth of UI/etc
through the cable.

~~~
rbarooah
They can't mirror automatically - it always appears to the app as a second
window.

There are games (e.g. The incident) that use this to let you play on a TV, and
things like Keynote can display the presentation on the output and presenter
notes on the device itself.

------
wriq
I would guess thats one of the motives behind them seeking a deal to get
unlimited music downloads for itunes.

Link: [http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-04/apple-said-to-
negot...](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-04/apple-said-to-negotiate-
unlimited-downloads-of-music-purchases.html))

------
noonespecial
My iPad won't even _charge_ right without my macBook. My brother works for
Apple and gave me the party line about how "some motherboards are not capable
of supplying enough power to their usb ports."

I started Parallels on my macBook, plugged in the iPad and let it connect to
the virtual XP that was running: "Not Charging". Shut down Parallels without
even unplugging the iPad, well, boy howdy, its charging now. No OSX/iTunes?
Purposely broken.

~~~
seabee
Windows (may even be the USB specification itself) will not deliver more than
X mA to a device unless a driver is installed to request > X mA

OS X obviously is aware of iDevices so it charges without you knowing any
wiser. Windows needs the driver.

~~~
noonespecial
As this unfolded (the comments) I realized I very well might be talking out of
my ass, and I hate when people do that to me so I grabbed my gear to divine
the electronic truth. Here are some facts I learned:

My MacBook pro gladly puts out more than 1100ma @5v no matter whats connected
and no matter what "handshaking" occurred (or didn't). Its a little scary
really.

My iPad _does_ charge albeit very slowly even when it says "not charging".
When it does so, it consumes about 750ma (thus, breaking the spec anyway in a
strict sense). It stops charging if you turn it on and just runs from usb
power. So its kind of telling the truth, when it says "not charging" on the
screen, it actually isn't.

The ipad increases charge to around 950ma when it gets the OK from an Apple
Approved device. (my MacBook, only when in OSX mode)

When connected to my palm pre's "dumb charger" the ipad does the "not
charging" thing @750, even though the pre's charger can deliver 1500ma.

The official Apple wall charger seems to deliver about 5.5v and nearly 1000ma
to the pad.

It seems the choice is actually left to the iPad itself whether to sip or
slurp and it does this by detecting what its connected to. (or rather, what it
_isn't_ connected to)

In conclusion, this operational profile is frustrating. "Purposely broken" may
have been too strong but they didn't go through any extra effort to make my
user experience stellar if I elected not to go the full monty on apple gear.

But what does it really mean to me? I can't charge my 'pad on the damn plane
on that freakishly long SF to Sydney _and_ watch all the back episodes of "Mad
Men", using that nifty USB jack on Qantas' new A380. Bummer.

------
code_duck
Do iPads actually let you manage your music without using iTunes on a desktop?
I know my iPod doesn't. You can add music to it directly by purchasing in the
iTunes store, but not delete music. I can't see any clear reason why, but this
restriction must do something for Apple.

~~~
rbarooah
No - iPad's don't let you manage your music collection.

I assume the no-delete is to reduce the risk of people accidentally deleting
things they've just paid for, given that that's the only way to get things on
to the device.

Interestingly, you _can_ delete videos.

~~~
code_duck
You can re-download things you've paid for, can't you? Or hmm.. they limit the
times? Given that I have 800 GB of space I have of which 10% is in use, I've
never deleted any purchased music, so I don't know from personal experience.

~~~
rbarooah
No - you can only redownload apps. This is because of the contracts with the
content providers. Apple is apparently trying to renegotiate this at least for
music, so that they can put your library in the cloud.

------
sliverstorm
"post-pc devices" is marketing pitch. He knows it just as well as you.

------
suprgeek
The primary reason I have not purchased the iPad is iTunes (the software). It
is an abomination on Windows as others have noted and most puzzling is so
badly designed that most common consumers make several basic mistakes wile
trying to figure it out. For a company that has "intuitive in their DNA", I
find it very strange that a piece of Garbage like iTunes is the crucial bridge
between PC and the "Post-PC" products. Something is very wrong somewhere.

------
molecule
As an iPad owner who just ordered a kindle, pre-config'd w/ my amazon account,
I wish Apple would fix the must-sync-w/-iTunes problem

1\. Allow selection of Mac or Win file-system type during iDevice ordering,
default to FAT32 otherwise (3rd party sales, etc.) 2\. Configure iDevice w/
ordering account before shipping, or as on-site set-up @ brick & mortar 3\.
Customers purchase content without syncing their iDevice on PC 4\. Profit $$$

------
mikecarlucci
I think that Steve Jobs himself has already set the groundwork for breaking
the ties with (a local computer copy of) iTunes down the road.

Jobs talked about Cars and Trucks. The desktop, and many laptop computers, are
trucks. They can do the heavy lifting, converting, number crunching, graphics
processing etc. Tablets and smartphones are cars. Calling them "automatic
transmission" cars is probably even better. The learning curve is low, the
uses are "limited" compared to the trucks but most people don't need a truck
for their everyday lives.

The MacBook Air is on the threshold. It's a device that looks like a truck and
has the inners of a "sportscar" with a truck-style processor, but the
interface of the truck. It's manual transmission but not useful for all truck
jobs.

If Apple could ensure that everyone had a data plan maybe they would cut out
iTunes. Of course, they still make a nice profit on all those Macs...

------
rbarooah
Post-PC is just a statement about where the growth is. It doesn't mean PCs are
suddenly useless or going away.

~~~
Bud
Precisely.

It's not like 30-inch monitors and ergonomic keyboards are going to magically
become portable tomorrow. Desktop/laptop computers are sticking around for a
while.

------
nickpp
Because syncing a 32gb personal collection of music, movies and photos
wirelessly takes too long?

Funny I think it's only people without any iTunes purchase complaining about
this. The ones enjoying the media capabilities of the iPad, capabilities
completely missing from Android, have no complains.

~~~
icco
What about my Grandma? I wanted to give her an iPad, but the only computer she
has is the one she shares with her entire nursing home, and there isn't an
Apple store within a thirty minute drive of her house. I get that syncing is
faster when connected, but that shouldn't be a requirement for use. Why can't
I just turn it on, sign in and be done with it?

~~~
ffumarola
Explaining this to my sister was a headache I wish to never have again.

------
joelackner
this is one area that android as an os is better at. it's ready to go out of
the box, syncs data from your google account and upgrades the os over the
wire.

~~~
Bud
Unless your Google account just does not happen to include your 11gig photo
library, 10gig music library, etc. Which it likely doesn't.

This is about the fourth post on HN I've seen whining (yes, I think it's
whining) about this issue. Apple is going all-cloud soon enough, if the rumors
are true. In the meantime, if I'm going to sync 20-25gig of stuff to a new
device, I really don't mind plugging it in.

I also don't mind plugging it in occasionally for an OS upgrade. It's just not
a big deal, at all. The device is wire-dependent on a daily basis, anyway,
folks: it needs a fresh new supply of electrons to keep running. Get over it.

------
bergie
I bought my iPad from San Francisco last spring, and asked the Apple Store
staff to activate it. That was the last time it has been connected to a
computer. Calendar and contacts sync nicely from Google, as does email. And
Kindle does its own syncing. What else would I need?

~~~
glenjamin
This would imply that your OS version is pretty out of date by now.

~~~
bergie
It does, yes. But I haven't really felt a need to upgrade. Actually, somebody
in another thread here said that they can do upgrades for you in Apple Store

------
mikecane
The only devices that have acted as post-PC out of the box have been running
webOS. That's not to say they've been a sterling example, but at least they
thought that way from the beginning.

------
joe_the_user
_The iPad - A post-freedom device_

------
snoozer
The question strikes me as a link-baiting deliberate obtuseness. If we're in a
post-industrial age, why do we still have factories? If my Mac is a "personal"
computer, why can other people have accounts on it?

"Post" means "after". It usually connotes some sense of replacement, but does
not necessarily imply wholesale obsoleting of the thing that came before it.

I think "post-PC" is a calculated marketing term, but to criticize it based on
the most absurd possible interpretation is, well, absurd.

------
ericmsimons
Well, I know it's definitely possible to have it be completely independent.
Palm did a fantastic job of having the Pre be completely separate. I have
never connected it to my computer and everything is done OTA...updates, app
downloads, etc. Apple is just dealing with the original way that iOS was
developed. It will take a bit for them to swap everything to OTA :(

------
thailandstartup
Apple is using the popularity of its mobile devices to turn its consumer
electronic customers into media distribution customers.

It makes good sense for Apple - an iPad owner is a customer for maybe 3 years,
but get the same user locked into iTunes, and that's a multi-decade revenue
stream. Media distribution is the real game for Apple.

------
codex
I've always assumed that Apple required wired sync because otherwise syncing
would drain the battery unacceptably. USB syncing doesn't use a radio
transmitter, but more importantly, USB supplies some power to offset the drain
from sync. When battery life improves I expect this requirement to go away.

------
rimantas
It's half way there. Or both ways sans saving to device. Home Sharing on iOS
4.3 allows to get your music from your computer and play it. AirPlay allows
you to upstream media from your device. I am pretty sure OTA sync is
implemented and working somewhere on Infinite Loop.

------
acqq
What I don't understand: Apple makes it very hard to copy the files to the
iPad, then expects me to be happy about the possibility to edit movies, which
must be copied to the iPad in order to be edited.

------
adsr
Big deal. It's an embedded device just like a gaming console, that some people
now use to do things that previously was only possible in the PC domain.

------
davidedicillo
I'm not sure, but I think in this way Apple also bypass the carries' control
over the upgrades (see Android and WP7).

------
brackin
You can install pretty much all the files you'd need on the device so you're
right. Music, Books, Apps or TV Shows.

------
tomelders
A rose by any other name would smell as sweet. But all in all, it's a
tiresome, dull, petty point to raise.

------
lwhi
If you don't need to sync with iTunes - you don't need another Apple computer.

------
WalterBright
What annoys me is I cannot copy files from my PC to the iPod.

~~~
gvb
Dropbox works well.

~~~
WalterBright
Do I have to upload the file to dropbox.com in order to see it on my ipod?

~~~
gvb
Yes. You install dropbox software on all the computers you want to share the
files on and dropbox synchronizes the dropbox folders on all the computers.
When you copy a file to the dropbox folder on one computer, dropbox copies the
file to the dropbox server (in the background) and then down to all the other
computers you installed dropbox on.

Dropbox says they encrypt the files, but they hold the key so the encryption
doesn't guarantee privacy. You can encrypt the file before putting it in the
dropbox folder which will guarantee privacy (to the extent that your
encryption is strong), but you have to decrypt it on the other computers.

Keepass is an example of an encrypted file that should be safe when copied via
dropbox.

~~~
WalterBright
That doesn't work for me, as I wish to transfer files to my ipod that are
hundreds of megabytes.

I can copy files off of the ipod via the USB, but not on.

------
marze
Patients.

\- Steve

~~~
rbarooah
people in hospital can't sync their iPads?

------
zyb09
If all you ever do is consume digital media, yes the iPad could replace your
PC. But PCs are also widley used to produce content, which is something the
iPad can't do at all. Where does Apple think all the stuff they sell on
iTunes, the AppStore, iBooks comes from? It's not being made on the iPad,
thats for sure.

~~~
Skroob
iPads absolutely can produce content. The new GarageBand and iMovie apps are
perfect examples of just how much potential the iPad has for creation.

~~~
zyb09
Potential sure, but the new GarageBand etc. are still just toys, even if Steve
claims otherwise. No body is gonna use GarageBand or iMovies to produce
something, that gets sold on iTunes.

~~~
Skroob
I think you're wrong about that, but we'll have to wait to find out. So how
about Brushes, which was used to make two New Yorker covers?

~~~
recoiledsnake
And this was made in MS Paint -->
[http://diamonster.deviantart.com/art/powerdraw-17908194?full...](http://diamonster.deviantart.com/art/powerdraw-17908194?fullview=1)

Should people ditch photoshop now?

Just because there a few examples doesn't make it a suitable tool for most
people.

~~~
Skroob
Who said anything was a replacement for anything? I'm giving examples of
content creation on the iPad to someone who said it couldn't do content
creation "at all". It doesn't mean everybody should switch to it completely
for everything, that's ridiculous.

