
Told U.S. security at risk, Chinese firm seeks to sell Grindr dating app - forkLding
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-grindr-m-a-exclusive/exclusive-us-pushes-chinese-owner-of-grindr-to-divest-the-dating-app-sources-idUSKCN1R809L
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Waterluvian
As a practical example, I'm guessing there's concern that they could get
personal sexuality information about someone in the military and extort them
with it.

Seems really quite plausible to me.

~~~
lambdasquirrel
So, Americans have bigoted views towards gays, which means a Chinese company
can’t own a gay social network?

~~~
ratling
Part of the process of getting a security clearance is proving you can't be
blackmailed.

Lots of things you would think are disqualifying aren't, as long as you
disclose them (being involved with BDSM is the most obvious answer I'm aware
of).

The fact that they're LGBT isn't the issue with the repeal of don't ask don't
tell. But if they're not out and they don't disclose then yes, this
information is absolutely valuable.

Money stuff is another disqualifying event. If you're heavily in debt then
you're vulnerable to being paid off in exchange for something against the
interests of the United States.

~~~
notyourday
Ok, so a Chinese engineer cannot work for OK Cupid or for Match? Or for Hinge?
What about a Russian engineer? Or an Indian engineer?

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ratling
Where did I say... literally any of that?

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notyourday
There's no magic AI in Grindr that can answer the question "Show me all people
that work for DoD that are into gay sex". There has to be some engineer or
group of engineers to do it. It is the same with a Hinge/OKC/Match/etc.

~~~
ratling
Because they don't have a bunch of location information for everyone on
grindr?

If only someone did something in the last few years that would make this data
super valuable. Like if Chinese intelligence broke into the US governments HR
system and absconded with the data (including all their personal information
including where they live).

Oh wait...

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killjoywashere
Nice to see someone taking the Chinese foothold in SV seriously. I've also
heard people who go to work for Chinese companies are then blacklisted from US
Government defense- and intel-related work for 1 year. Can anyone confirm?

~~~
CharlesColeman
> I've also heard people who go to work for Chinese companies are then
> blacklisted from US Government defense- and intel-related work for 1 year.
> Can anyone confirm?

I definitely want confirmation on this. I could see the security-clearance
folks being skeptical of someone who moved to mainland China to work, but not
of someone who, say had a job in the US at a Chinese-owned company like AMC
[1] or Riot Games [2].

[1] [http://fortune.com/2016/03/18/the-biggest-american-
companies...](http://fortune.com/2016/03/18/the-biggest-american-companies-
now-owned-by-the-chinese/)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riot_Games](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riot_Games)

~~~
forks25
There isn't some hard rule like that. If you have no family connections to
china, moved over to join some cool company, then came back a year later
because you got bored, your interim clearance would probably be denied, and
your background investigation would probably take longer but you could still
get a clearance.

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make3
I wonder if the same owner as Tinder and OkCupid will buy this, becoming a
dating (and casual sex, and etc.) superpower.

I always thought funny how OkCupid pushes ads like "You're tired of the dirty
flesh market of Tinder? We hear you! Come use OkCupid!" and they have the same
owner as Tinder

~~~
wwweston
It's generally best to be reserved about trusting any business to put
principle or mission ahead of financial rewards, so, yeah, it's probably not
true that OkCupid's owners (present or past) were not in their hearts mission-
focused around substance over photo-swipe matching techniques and business
success just came naturally.

That said, there's nothing particularly inconsistent about having different
product lines and brands for different market segments. _I_ don't think much
of any of the Swipe-to-Date apps, but lots of people seem to. Some people seem
to prefer OKC. Some people would rather buy a Lexus than a Toyota, or Pizza
Hut over Taco Bell.

~~~
make3
It's not a judgement on my part, I was finding it humorous that their ads for
OkCupid were basically calling Tinder cheap and shallow just as a marketing
ploy to get the users on their side while sharing the same owner, a bit like
finding out a vegan restaurant that markets itself by calling meat foods
unhealthy actually has the same owner as burger king.

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lskopwol
What makes Grindr special in this regard ? I’m sure there are other dating or
social apps out there that also could be foreign owned and used for
espionage....???

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CharlesColeman
> What makes Grindr special in this regard ? I’m sure there are other dating
> or social apps out there that also could be foreign owned and used for
> espionage....???

select opm.name, opm.address

from opm_security_clearance_files opm

join grindr_users grinder

where grinder.phone_number = opm.phone_number

and opm.clearance in ('SECRET', 'TOP SECRET', 'SCI');

If any of those people are in the closet, they could be susceptible to
blackmail.

~~~
yorwba
Replace _grindr_ by _some_other_site where some_other_site.orientation !=
'straight' or some_other_site.fetish in (...)_ and it works out to the same
result, no?

~~~
CharlesColeman
Yeah, definitely. I think it's arguable the same rational could even apply to
a dating site for straight people. It would take a little more work and
probably be less fruitful overall, but an adversary's intelligence agency
could use it identify straight people (with security clearances) who may be
trying to cheat on their spouses or whose marriage is disintegrating. Both of
those situations could open someone up to manipulation (a honey trap [1], for
instance).

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recruitment_of_spies#Love,_hon...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recruitment_of_spies#Love,_honeypots,_and_recruitment)

~~~
azinman2
Knowing someone is gay is a classic blackmail situation, particularly within
the gov world. Grindr is very sexually charged, so you get the most extreme
sensitive bits here, combined with high profile people that are closeted and
don’t want this information leaked. Not the same situation.

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jdsully
I thought Cfius could only block deals. I’ve never heard of them forcing a
sale and the article doesn’t really speak to this odd situation.

~~~
dharmab
From TFA:

>The development represents a rare, high-profile example of CFIUS undoing an
acquisition that has already been completed. Kunlun took over Grindr through
two separate deals between 2016 and 2018 without submitting the acquisition
for CFIUS review, according to the sources, making it vulnerable to such an
intervention.

~~~
jdsully
They must have added that later (or I failed at reading comprehension).
Anyways thanks!

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drewbug01
An additional security concern is Grindr’s location tracking. If you haven’t
used it, it broadcasts people as “N feet away” on a grid (sorted by distance).

That information could be used to discern the locations of military personnel.

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odyssey7
I don't think I've seen an arrangement like this before.

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codedokode
The proper solution would be not to collect personal data, especially if it is
not necessary for functioning of the app, rather than worry about who is going
to buy the company.

~~~
matthewmacleod
I mean that’s valid, but a gay hookup app is going to struggle with not
retaining personal data - location, pictures, sexual preferences, messages,
HIV status, links to other social profiles…

~~~
codedokode
The app doesn't need precise location, full name, phone number or email. So if
they won't collect it then there would be less useful information to leak.
Having just photos without a way to identify the owner doesn't help much.

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aurelius83
This is the sixth attempt in the past 24 hours to post this exact story. I
wonder what it was about this attempt that caused it to spike up in points vs
the other 5 attempts, which only maxed out at like 2 or 3 points?

~~~
sctb
The usual stochastic nature of getting to the front page, most likely. Since
the WSJ is paywalled, we've re-upped the earliest Reuters post instead of
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19505863](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19505863).

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KerrickStaley
This is a very tinfoil-hat-y perspective, but is it possible that this action
gained support inside the Trump White House because it makes life more
difficult for Grindr?

I think the theory that it's about potential blackmail and extortion is a more
likely explanation, and overall I think it makes sense for the government to
take this action, but it might have been boosted by ulterior motives (see also
CNN/AT&T/Time Warner).

~~~
azinman2
But they’re seeking to have it be sold... not shutdown. So why would that be
part of the WH agenda?

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KerrickStaley
It still creates financial turmoil for Grindr, especially given that it was
considering an IPO. The IPO would have been a financial windfall for many
employees, whereas an acquisition may mean no immediate liquidity for those
employees' shares and may have less desirable terms (because it's forced and
has to be completed by some deadline). This may hurt morale.

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stevefan1999
But being LGBT in China is much more accepted than in the west, so I don't see
the point here...although not if they had sex tapes or is critiqued by the
official media

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yourbandsucks
You at least have anecdotal sources for that? My anecdotal experience is the
opposite, one generation away from the farm and all..

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stevefan1999
Well, most of us are neutral about LGBT, we don't care whether you're gay or
not if you can get things done.

~~~
sdinsn
The Chinese government sure cares, since same-sex marriage is not legal.

