
Upgrade Your Memory with a Surgically Implanted Chip - ETHisso2017
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-10/upgrade-your-memory-with-a-surgically-implanted-chip
======
warent
"If brain activity is suboptimal, the device provides a small zap,
undetectable to the patient, to strengthen the signal and increase the chance
of memory formation."

I always wonder if things like this are worded like so for the layperson to
understand? Because to me it sounds like an incredibly crude and hackish way
to do anything. "Yeah, just shock the brain and it forms better memories!
We're not entirely sure how or why, or what the implications are, but it seems
to work for some reason!"

~~~
temikus
You’d be surprised but that’s how a lot of medicine works. Your common
paracetamol (Panadol) has a mechanism of action that is “not completely
understood”. We’ve come a long way in the past 100 years but certain areas are
still pretty much trial and error.

~~~
puranjay
So much of medicine is like this. My in-laws are doctors and so many of their
diagnoses eventually end up as "we have no idea what's happening, but these
steroids should help. Why, we have no clue."

~~~
nerdponx
And yet doctors reject all manner of so-called "alternative" therapies on the
grounds that they have no plausible mechanism of action.

A family member of mine had a somewhat-debilitating chronic condition in high
school, which only got better with a combination of what today are garden-
variety alternative therapies (acupuncture, elimination diet, et al). Today,
as a doctor, pooh-poohs a lot of that stuff. It's confusing and disappointing
to see.

~~~
hnhg
As a doctor, they may have a better understanding of placebos and statistics.

~~~
JamesBarney
You'd be surprised at the lack of statistical knowledge most doctors have.

~~~
thih9
This seems an offtopic generalisation and looks unhelpful to me in this
context.

I’d like it more if it linked to a study. Or if it had more details,
preferably addressing placebos too.

~~~
pBody
It seems that way, but it’s not.

[https://europepmc.org/abstract/med/9078698](https://europepmc.org/abstract/med/9078698)

[https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-28166019](https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-28166019)

There is a depressing amount of evidence that doctors don’t have a basic level
of statistical literacy.

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sireat
" He was the first person the Finn had known who'd `gone silicon' -the phrase
had an old-fashioned ring for Case -and the microsofts he purchased were art
history programs and tables of gallery sales." \- not quite the same thing but
we are on the way there.

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hyperpallium
No, of course it isn't biased towards certain brands, or censor certain
criticism.

As a happy recipient of the device, I don't know how you could even think such
as thing.

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madengr
Someday a method/implant will be invented to trigger the orgasmic response in
the brain. Will be interesting to see how humanity handles that drug.

Reminds me of Star Trek DS9, where the Cardassian tailor had the brain implant
to make him resistant to torture. He had turned it on, and left it on for 20
years, then it failed.

~~~
fgkramer
This following is completely unfounded, but I think that it would become a
stigma to those who got it.

We are all driven by chemicals and everyone has their own preference on how to
release dopamine and any other chemicals, be it exercise, drugs, alcohol,
anything you can imagine. Getting a button to trigger such a strong response
would mean a certain division in society, those who seek pleasure the new way
or those who want to keep with the traditional way.

Overall I think that facilitating this would give people a huge (maybe too
big) escape from reality and would certainly be abused.

Robin Cook had a plot about this (triggering orgasm-like responses on brains)
many years ago in his book Brain:

[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/529804.Brain](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/529804.Brain)

~~~
Funes-
>Getting a button to trigger such a strong response would mean a certain
division in society, those who seek pleasure the new way or those who want to
keep with the traditional way.

Isn't this already happening to a certain extent--and progressively getting
worse? I think there's an ever-increasing chasm between people who occupy
their leisure time with digital entertainment engineered to be an easy--and
highly addictive--dopamine fix, and people who try to enjoy more mindful
activities. The latter option is, of course, incomparably harder.

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apo
> In two separate studies, researchers found the prototype consistently
> boosted memory 15% to 18%.

No mention of controls or error bars. Until then, this is all placebo effect.

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test6554
I was kind of hoping for a chip that interfaces with the brain. Stores data
digitally and responds to brain's request for information. But that's probably
the wrong way of thinking about it on multiple levels.

As someone with no knowledge of how this stuff works, I like to imagine that
when you try to remember something, your brain sends signals the same
connections that were formed when you last saw that thing. It then activates
your visual cortex, your auditory cortex and language centers. So you
visualize it, see the word, and hear it in your brain, then suddenly you feel
as if you know the answer to the thing you were trying to remember.

~~~
Balgair
[https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/05/160517131928.h...](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/05/160517131928.htm)

It's thought of as occurring just as you described, but it's very difficult to
prove it even in rodent models.

Also, humans are wildly diverse. Some people have aphantasia, where they
cannot 'image' things in their heads. Invariably when you bring this up on HN,
you get a lot of people saying they cannot believe this and a lot of people
saying that this is their normal reality. Similar to discussions on
synestensia (hearing colors, tasting names, other 'mix ups') and if you stand
or sit when you wipe in the bathroom.

[https://www.iflscience.com/brain/cant-imagine-pictures-
your-...](https://www.iflscience.com/brain/cant-imagine-pictures-your-mind-
you-might-have-aphantasia/)

------
ironchest
I wonder if rare circumstances like taking hallucinogens or being in the
middle of a Carrington event have been considered...

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ddingus
[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12678461-amped](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12678461-amped)

This is a great romp, good for your next flight or downtime.

The premise is what happens to society when augmented people start to matter.

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fromthestart
>“I don’t think any of us are going to be signing up for voluntary brain
surgery anytime soon,” Sanchez says. “Only when these technologies become less
invasive, or noninvasive, will they become widespread.”

Are you kidding? 15-37% improvement in memory formation/recall? Where do I
sign?

~~~
goodside
The surgery needed to install the chip is itself detrimental to your IQ. The
brain was not made to be exposed to air. You don’t get your skull opened up
unless there’s no other option — these are patients who were already forced
into this circumstance.

~~~
nexuist
Could you not e.g. operate in an artificial vacuum using oxygen masks? If open
skull surgery is so detrimental to IQ, why is this not done? I understand
there's a cost factor but given the scale of medical expenses, it seems within
the realm of possibility?

~~~
andrey_utkin
Because brain and other body tissues normally have internal pressure of 1
atmosphere, so if you put it into vacuum, it will explode and blood and other
liquids will boil.

~~~
guywhocodes
Could use argon in a vat shaped system and continuously push in more to wash
out any oxygen following the tools. Could probably be done with very little
oxygen touching the brain if we really want to build the tools.

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xchip
Any idea why the max in the graph is at 350? It looks like the data only
reaches a maximum value 150...

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Bombthecat
> get your competitive advantage now! Get your chip now!

~~~
mirceal
i like the idea of artificially enhanced humans (including implanted hardware)
but I don’t really want to be the guinea pig for this kind if thing.

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toephu2
This is like a precursor to Elon Musk's Neuralink idea.

[https://waitbutwhy.com/2017/04/neuralink.html](https://waitbutwhy.com/2017/04/neuralink.html)

~~~
_0ffh
Please stop ascribing old SF literature ideas to the first billionaire who
passes along, promising to make them true.

~~~
taneq
Agreed. The term 'neural lace' was coined by Ian M. Banks (as far as I know)
but the concept of an implanted brain-computer interface which can augment
brain function is decades old.

~~~
DocSavage
Musk reportedly got the idea from the Banks novels:
[https://www.1843magazine.com/culture/the-daily/the-
novelist-...](https://www.1843magazine.com/culture/the-daily/the-novelist-who-
inspired-elon-musk)

