
Google rolls out “If This Then That” support for its $200 OnHub router - shawndumas
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/04/googles-onhub-router-finally-gets-some-smart-home-features-via-ifttt/
======
rdegges
OnHub is one of the best routers I've ever owned. I've been buying custom
router hardware for years -- I even went as far as building my own OpenBSD /
PFsense router way back when, but nothing I've ever built (or bought!) has
given me the same reliability / stability / speed as the OnHub.

I'm seriously impressed with it.

Also: the OnHub management app for mobile is AMAZING. It is so cool.

Awesome product. Really great to see them put more effort into it and support
integrations with IFTTT :D

~~~
untog
Curious: what do you do with the management app?

I have an Apple Airport thing and had a similar experience - years of buying
cheap routers then suddenly I had one that "just works". To the point that I
haven't had to open/use the administration panel in an absolute age.

~~~
cmrdporcupine
The app also gives you insights into what's happening with your OnHub -- per
device traffic sums, speed tests, alerts, etc.

And we're constantly improving it.

IMHO that's the real win with the OnHub; the router itself is constantly
upgraded with up to date firmware with security updates and new features. And
the mobile app that administrates it is constantly getting new features.

Maybe I should transfer to marketing.

~~~
seanp2k2
Honestly Google's rep for discontinuing support for stuff is why I'm not
interested in such a connected device. Will it continue getting updates after
Google drops it in 0-5 years? Who knows. Will the open-source community be
able to put OpenWRT on it or something to give it life after it can no longer
receive firmware updates? Not sure.

I do know that my current Ubiquiti and Apple network infrastructure devices
will still work if I plug them in in 10 years. I can't say the same for this.
$200 seems reasonable for what it does, but less so if it's knocked down to
dumb router mode if Google pulls the plug some day.

~~~
untog
What reassurance does Apple give that Google do not?

~~~
potatolicious
I have an OnHub, but even then I'm a little wary of Google's track record when
it comes to "sunsetting" products.

There is no explicit foolproof assurance from either Apple or Google, but in
Apple's case they haven't been known for introducing products and then
dropping all support for it when it fails to live up to sales/strategic
expectations.

In fact Apple's modern track record is pretty impressive - the latest iOS runs
on a phone introduced in 2011.

Google's "throw everything at the wall and keep the stuff that sticks"
approach is IMO one that only makes sense when you discount brand value
completely and assume nobody will remember the stuff that didn't stick, and
their unceremonial shutdowns. It's a theoretically appealing approach but IMO
impractical because people remember.

Even when Google compensates people for the shutdowns - see the Nexus Q - it
still leaves a bad taste, and makes people wonder if they're buying a real
honest product in a particular space or an experiment to be cut lose at a
moment's notice.

~~~
alphapapa
Wow, what kind of bias would lead this comment to be downvoted into grayness?

~~~
deprave
A positive bias towards anything coming from Google. Just look at the number
of Google employees on this thread...

The "let's see what sticks" approach might work well for software, especially
the Google kind: ad-supported "free" cloud-based software services. Complaints
trigger the knee-jerk reaction of "you never paid." It doesn't work for
hardware, and I don't know why Google would risk its reputation for what must
barely move the needle on their income statements.

Apple's approach of providing SDKs that work with their existing devices,
thereby testing the waters and seeing what products get built, what consumers
like, etc. before entering it themselves seems like a much more sensible move.

------
ProAm
Until they discontinue support and turn the service off in a 18 months. It's
hard to put any faith in google products anymore, especially with the new
alphabet revenue strategy put into place.

~~~
kyrra
_The opinions stated here are my own, not necessarily those of Google._

If you are referring to Revolv, Nest/Revolv stopped selling the device the day
Nest acquired them (Oct 2014), and they are also issuing refunds to anyone
that contacts them[0]. The other major hardware cancel I know about was the
Nexus Q which Google also provided a full refund for anyone that contacts
them.

Sure, Google could cancel it, but they seem to only do that with something if
it was a total flop, and they then do what they can to fully refund whoever
was effected.

[http://revolv.com/](http://revolv.com/)

~~~
skrebbel
I think the problem is more that many people feel that Google doesn't care
about their customers, for a variety of reasons that I'm sure you can imagine.

That's an image thing, and I'm sure you can come up with all kinds of
historical facts on why that image is not right, or not right anymore, but
that hardly helps fix the image.

I think that if Google really wanted to fix that image, they could do
revolutionary stuff like promise long term support, or publish a phone number.

EDIT! westernmostcoy pointed out that actually they do, clearly, publish a
phone number, which is pretty decent of them. I got the HN points anyway so
it's too late now, but still, good to see! Maybe I should read a site before I
criticize it.

~~~
westernmostcoy
This line of conversation is an easy way to get points on HN, but if you
actually looked for a phone number for OnHub support you'd find one quite
easily. Here it is in two locations:

Bottom right:
[https://on.google.com/hub/support/#ready](https://on.google.com/hub/support/#ready)
"Contact Us" on:
[https://support.google.com/onhub#topic=6243113](https://support.google.com/onhub#topic=6243113)

------
some-guy
I tried OnHub, but unfortunately it didn't have the option to force 5Ghz over
2.4Ghz for devices without going through some hacks. Where I live, 2.4Ghz
wireless has 10% packet loss on average, no matter which router I use.

I'm happy that routers are finally getting the UX treatment they deserve, and
their target market isn't for people who know the difference between the two,
but OnHub should keep the nitty-gritty details accessible to power users if
they so wish. I eventually had to return the router and go back to forcing
5Ghz on my old one.

~~~
stsp
An AP cannot prioritize 5 GHz over 2 GHz. It's up to the client to decide what
to connect to.

~~~
jrockway
Not true at all. The AP can reply to 2.4GHz requests with a delay so that the
device gets connected to the 5GHz network first. If the AP is really sure, it
can also send a force disconnect. That's how most roaming is implemented these
days.

We have a version of hostapd that will do this for you:
[https://gfiber.googlesource.com/vendor/opensource/hostap/](https://gfiber.googlesource.com/vendor/opensource/hostap/)

We call it "bandsteering".

------
zyxley
I just wish more of these companies would add support for a locally runnable
IFTTT equivalent, or at least something like MQTT support so you can bake your
own.

~~~
googlryas
Yeah - I bought some belkin wemo devices, thinking that I could use their
"smart" light switch to control an outlet on the other side of the room which
it wasn't wired for.

It ended up working, but because the comms had to go through IFTTT servers,
the lag was something like 10-15 seconds, which is awful when you want to just
turn on a light.

~~~
nl
The Wemo mobile app works on the local network and doesn't require IFTTT (?)

------
morgante
The gratuitous negativity of this article is entirely uncalled for.

I would _much_ rather that a device integrate with IFTTT and thus gain
connectivity with the hundreds of services which IFTTT supports than for it to
attempt to hand-roll integrations with a much smaller subset of services.

In case anyone disputes my claim of gratuitous negativity:

> Some smart home features finally come to OnHub, but using a non-Google
> ecosystem.

> Its only real differentiators were the funky design, easy setup, and the
> promise of future updates.

> Now with the IFTTT update, the OnHub finally supports some smart home
> features—but it's using someone else's ecosystem.

> IFTTT is now the gateway for controlling other things in your house via the
> OnHub rather than using some kind of Google communication standard like we
> expected.

> This is all still happening over Wi-Fi, too, so the OnHub is still not using
> any of the smart-home antennas it shipped with.

~~~
detaro
It's negativity, but I'm not convinced on the "gratuitous". They clearly
mention the (IMHO reasonable) expectations compared to which this is negative.

------
deprave
I cannot understand why anyone would buy hardware from Google. Chromecast for
$35 a pop is as much as I'd be willing to pay from something that they could
arbitrarily shut down.

~~~
mankyd
Im curious how you think they'll shut your router off?

Certainly, they could turn cloud based features such as this off, but the
router itself?

~~~
nxzero
What would stop them?

EDIT: @sohailk, think you're missing the point, which is not if it's logical,
but what literally would stop them from doing this?

(Hardware, legal, etc.)

~~~
sohailk
common sense? locking down unnecessary software features is bad but not
gamebreaking. locking down hardware would just be crazy.

------
ericclemmons
Shucks. I just bought eero over OnHub because the former seems to answer the
multi- floor wireless solution than OnHub.

I'm in a 4-story town home with PoE between floors, which works great, but
Apple's AirPort Extreme + Express CONSISTENTLY stops resolving DNS while the
wired connections are fine.

Looks like I have another alternative if eero doesn't work...

------
Animats
The remote update "feature" means this has a built-in backdoor into your local
network. So you don't want to install this in a law office, anywhere that has
to be HIPAA compliant, or any environment requiring security.

~~~
jethro_tell
Why would you put this in a business? I suppose the same argument holds for
space stations prisons but we haven't brought that up.

The lack of remote updates for any router probably also means that it has a
back door. There's a pretty extensive list of home router vulns out there
already.

Being HIPAA compliant is not generally an indication of a well secured
network.

~~~
randyrand
You might run a home business

~~~
jethro_tell
A home business that his HIPAA compliant?

------
davidu
How does IFTTT make money? I can't figure it out.

~~~
nathancahill
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11378278](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11378278)

~~~
mod
I read quite a bit of that and I'm not sure where it mentioned their revenue
source.

I did see some mention of funding, and of very small fees (relative to
operating a company) for having your integration on their platform.

------
jMyles
This relies on an internet connection, right?

So many of these sorts of products do, and it is infuriating. It makes them
utterly inapplicable for many environments. I'm building a home in a school
bus. There will most certainly be times when I don't have a good (or any)
internet connection, but I still want local and customizable automation.

My plan is to just roll my own with Raspberry PIs.

~~~
olegious
I'm willing to bet that you represent a very small segment of the population
and are thus not a target for this product.

A product can't do everything and be the solution for everyone, each product
has a target market and since you're in a niche, most products won't solve
your problems.

~~~
cheeze
Seriously... It's a _router_. Most people buy it so that they can get wireless
_internet._ Needing to be connected to the internet for extra functionality
isn't that odd in this case.

I'd be willing to wager that 98% of people who own one of these have a
persistent internet connection.

If you live in a school bus, yeah, you're gonna have to make some compromises
or roll your own sometimes.

------
robbiemitchell
Every time I read a story about IFTTT support, I want to shout "Please look at
Zapier, it's so much better!"

Really, it's so much better.

Zapier = AWS Lambda with hundreds of pre-built integrations, webhooks for the
rest, multi-step jobs, arbitrary code execution (JS and Python) ... all in a
UI with monitoring that makes all the trouble go away.

~~~
Oletros
Perhaps it is better, but it is very expensive if you want more than 5 zaps or
100 tasks/month.

Right now, I have 25 recipes on IFTTT, if I would have the same number on
Zapier I would have to pay $49/month.

------
PerfectElement
Went in to look for a recipe and didn't find it: I want to be notified when
any new device connects to my network.

It seems pretty obvious to me and more useful than most recipes I've seen
there.

------
rocky1138
It was super annoying to set up the OnHub. Instead of a standard web
interface, they require installation of a mobile app.

~~~
matt_wulfeck
I'd take that any day over the insecure, circa 1999 web UI on my Asus router.

~~~
Nullabillity
There are many cases where native has advantages over web applications. Router
config UI is about as far from that as possible.

------
xd1936
There's also a contest going on to win one, if you can think of a creative way
to use the new IFTTT integration.

[http://blog.ifttt.com/post/143084444158/onhub-on-
ifttt](http://blog.ifttt.com/post/143084444158/onhub-on-ifttt)

------
alexkavon
This is also of note today too:
[http://www.theverge.com/2016/4/29/11535232/microsoft-flow-
if...](http://www.theverge.com/2016/4/29/11535232/microsoft-flow-ifttt-
competitor)

------
djhn
Is there a beginner guide for modern, home-use or pro-sumer quality,
networking hardware in general, or device specific purchase recommendations
for otherwise technically savvy people? Could someone please share a link?
I've only ever used the hardware that comes for free with the contract from my
cable operator, and I guess it works most of the time... but recently blind
spots and and slow-speed-spots have been a nuisance.

------
Matthias247
Rules that depend on the number of devices connected to a router? Doesn't seem
like a very reliable concept.

------
DonHopkins
Where would "If This Then That" be if not without "Put That There"? [1]

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyBEUyEtxQo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyBEUyEtxQo)

------
venomsnake
> To create Recipes for things you would like to happen automatically, just
> register and login at IFTTT.com (it’s free) and connect to the OnHub
> channel. Then start cooking up the Recipes that serve you best. Because
> OnHub on IFTTT works with so many products and services, there are lots of
> options for Recipes you can create.

And why this needs to be cloud service? Instead of locally running demon on a
raspberry pi?

~~~
dannyr
Maybe to make it more accessible to normal people?

~~~
fucking_tragedy
I know a dozens of normal people who need a router but no non-tech oriented
person who knows, cares about or would find utility in IFTTT.

Even if this was the case, a solution for normal people doesn't necessarily
mean cloud based.

