
Cruise-line companies are building private Caribbean play zones - respinal
https://www.economist.com/the-americas/2019/08/08/cruise-line-companies-are-building-private-caribbean-play-zones
======
sdoering
I once worked for a Cruise Company for some months. I really am shocked at how
naive I was back then, when I applied and worked there.

Back then I had no idea how bad this form of travel is for the environment,
for the visited cities, for the people working below deck, and so on.

The people I worked with in the main office of the company were really
energetic, loved their product, had a great time launching ship after ship
(every year a new ship was launched). It was great working with people who
loved what they were doing. Compared to other jobs I had till then. I was
there when the new hyped prototype was being put into service. Quite an
interesting time. We were allowed to test travel on the new ship. It was a
cool experience.

From a purely hedonistic perspective. Yeah it felt nice sitting in the sauna,
ten decks above see at 6am in the morning and looking out over the waves. It
was purely relaxing.

But from a more conscious perspective it was doing everything I could to help
destroy this world - and I was so abusing the lower deck people. The ones
never being seen by guests. They work horrible shifts, are employed with
contracts from the tax heaven states the ships are being registered in.

I was an employee of the same company - but I had massive employment
protections and laws governing how long I work, what is considered overtime,
and so on. The served me, made my bed, put coffee on my table. They prepared
my food - but they were third or fourth class "citizens" on this ship.

I am ashamed looking at it nowadays.

~~~
lopmotr
If you had the power, would you fire them and be the one to give them their
notice in person? If they asked why, what would you tell them? "For your own
good"?

~~~
mozey
Instead of asking would you fire them for their own good, rather ask, do you
employ them for their own good?

~~~
sokoloff
If they voluntarily show up, I think they are judging that I am offering them
something better (or at least as good) as their next best option. That’s one
formulation of “their own good”.

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jasonkester
This seems like a net win for the rest of us.

If you've ever been on Roatan or someplace similar when a big cruise ship
comes in, you'll know the feeling: Most of the time it's a sleepy little beach
town with cheap accommodation and beers, and friendly local folk going about
their business. Then one day you wake up and it's "Welcome To Jamaica, Mon!!!"

All the colorful townspeople are out in their Traditional Island Dress, doing
their Traditional Island Dance to the Traditional Island Music in the streets.
Everybody suddenly has piles of overpriced tourist junk to sell you, and those
cheap beers are now $8 each.

Giant flotillas of inflated red kayaks bob around in the bay, carrying
inflated pink tourists in inflated orange life vests. Lots of pictures are
taken of another Island Paradise.

Then things pack up, heaps of garbage are swept aside, and the place goes back
to its old, pleasant, self again.

Life is so good on the "backpacker" side of that experience, and so bad on the
"cruiser" side, that it's good to hear that they're finally just sequestering
them all away in a single place. If any of them ever want to experience the
Carribbean in its actual form, it'll hopefully be waiting there unspoiled.

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idunno246
I’ve been to the Disney cruise private island. It’s interesting, there’s
almost no full time employees there. The ship crew gets off and works the
island while you are there.

But even if you go on say an Alaska cruise, which is entirely in the USA, the
“towns” that you stop in exist solely for the cruise ships. The stores are the
same junk at every stop, often owned by the cruise lines, unless you walk to
the edge and maybe get something local or family run.

~~~
Nursie
Countries around the world seem to slowly be waking up to this - Cruise ships
pollute like hell, make destinations crowded and less pleasant for residents
and 'regular' tourists, and also attempt to capture all of the spending of
their passengers anyway, limiting any economic benefits.

European cities they frequent are some of the worst for SOx and NOx pollution
on the continent and a single line, Carnival, emitted more than all of
Europe's cars last year (by a factor of 10 IIRC). Barcelona has started to
realise that hoards that rush off the boat, have lunch and rush back on are
not worth the meagre boost it gives them.

The cruise industry needs to clean up its act.

~~~
Nokinside
The Baltic Sea and the North Sea are Sulphur Emission Control Areas (SECA) and
Nitrogen Oxide Emission Control Areas (NECAs). Ships in these areas required
to use SOx scrubbers and NOx, reducing devices in new ships. Limits have been
gradually tightened. I think they are now as low as 0.10% m/m.

Carnival Cruise Lines has ships outfitted with scrubbers and they operate in
these Emission Control Areas. Lower emissions are gradually coming to other
areas as well when scrubbers are retrofitted into older ships.

~~~
Nursie
Sounds good, and can't come soon enough!

Personally I'd like it if my home city (Southampton, UK currently) would stop
them idling their engines in port for power.

Apparently we don't have the power infrastructure for them to plug in and run
their systems from the local grid, so they just sit there churning this stuff
out.

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adaml_623
A question interesting to me: Are cruise ships worse or better than package,
tour or individual holidays?

We have millions of people all over the world who want to travel and see the
world and enjoy themselves. Assuming we don't ban individual travel we
probably want to work out the most environmentally friendly (and socially
responsible) way of enabling this.

A network of railway lines across the northern hemisphere connecting to a
fleet of wind powered cruise ships? But paying staff a socially responsible
wage might push the cost of a holiday up above the once a year point. And
figuring in the real environmental cost would cause issues as well.

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radicalbyte
A cruise ship always strikes me as being a slightly more upscale caravan
holiday. You're stuck in a metal box with either a lot of old middle class
people or a load of drunk lower class yobs. Only unlike a caravan you're stuck
on it.

~~~
godid
Perhaps, if you shared a single caravan with hundreds of other people. But
other than that I do not think it’s alike at all as you are not dependant on a
crew for subsistence nor is your freedom to move/explore restricted in a
caravan. Either way both can be very fun holidays if you are willing to see
past class prejudices.

~~~
radicalbyte
It's not so much the class prejudices, it's the booze prejudice. I don't
socialize with my wifes upper-middle-class colleagues because they like their
wine a little too much.

My worst ever holiday memories are being stuck in a caravan in the late 1980s
in wet Wales with way too little room and way too many loud drunk people who
kept going until 4am every single night.

Cruise ships are like that only you're completely at the whim of the cruise
line. You have 0 freedom and you have to deal with all the tax-evading fake-
flag BS which seems to rule the sea.

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acd
It means tourist pay money to cruise line. Cruise line keeps most of the
money. Local economy benefits a lot less from tourist. Cruise line ships is
often registered in tax havens.

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chrisco255
Going on a cruise is like a whirlwind tour of the Caribbean as it is. You get,
like 6 hours to try to cram in as much of Jamaica, Grand Cayman, Cozumel, etc
as you can and then it's back to the boat and on to the next stop. If you
really want to get to know a country it's not the best way to travel.

~~~
AznHisoka
For some people that’s OK. They don’t want just a short tour of the Caribbean,
they want a diverse recreationally holiday. a day doing all the cruise
activities, a day in the Caribbean, a day just taking it easy in the ship,
etc.

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B1FF_PSUVM
The Economist seemed to miss the "private island" angle. The MSC cruise line
just announced one:

[https://www.msccruisesusa.com/en-us/Cruise-
Destinations/Cari...](https://www.msccruisesusa.com/en-us/Cruise-
Destinations/Caribbean-Antilles/Bahamas/Ocean-Cay-MSC-Marine-Reserve.aspx)

(video player window pops up)

~~~
janlaureys
That video looks like the intro of a Black Mirror episode.

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cyberjunkie
The Patriot Act recently did a nice episode on cruise-line companies. Just
watched it last night.

~~~
wumms
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nCT8h8gO1g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nCT8h8gO1g)

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beardedman
I've known people to go on these cruises. They love it. Reading some of the HN
comments - why not rather discuss concerns with the business owners who enable
the "utter turmoil". Vote with what counts - not soapboxes.

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romanovcode
I really hope that these ships will get banned in the next 10 years.

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ptah
As long as customers are informed and locals are not ripped off it should be
ok imo

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trevyn
[https://outline.com/Sm9UCL](https://outline.com/Sm9UCL)

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tgafpg
This author is just realizing this now? After decades? Newsflash, buildings
grow beyond 10 stories!

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peteretep
> paid for in US dollars, never the Haitian gourde

Presumably the government is getting paid in US dollars too, which is a nice
fx source

> Haitians not employed by Royal Caribbean cannot enter.

Can Haitians generally roam free on private property?

> Caribbean countries are “basically giving away parcels of land”

What now? Do we call all foreign private ownership "giving away"? Poor article
from The Economist telling us nothing other than rich travelers to Haiti don't
want to deal with the downsides of it, which is a story as old as time.

~~~
0xfaded
Most western countries don't allow beach ownership, and technically the US
doesn't either but has its loop holes. Some European countries even have the
"right to pass" over private land if required to access to public land.

I suppose the question worth asking is the average Haitian better off from the
economic activity generated from the private parcel.

