
Anxiety over the new Gmail Compose - onelovelyname
http://storyblog.io/f11ffb15/anxiety-over-the-new-gmail-compose
======
ihnorton
Lately I've had a persistent feeling of annoyance with several Google
products. Each annoyance is small enough to tolerate individually, but in
aggregate it seems to me that Google has really lost something in the
attention-to-detail department; this kind of persistent annoyance was the same
thing that led me _to_ Google from other services years ago.

Two examples:

\- maps: new interface is so terrible that I am actively looking for a
replacement. It is painfully slow, search results are no longer displayed on
the same page as the map (what?), and in general the minimalism has gone too
far: the interface requires too much hunting.

\- gmail: Previous/Next-message buttons flake out constantly (grayed out -
clicking does nothing). New formatting options are hard to use and obnoxious.

And an old one that I ran in to again today:

\- there is no (intuitive) way to copy a URL from google search results
without all of the google redirect garbage. This fundamentally degrades the
world-wide web. For example, I want to email a link to a pdf. If an in-browser
pdf reader is not available, then the link downloads immediately and there is
no way to get the de-obfuscated link. I clicked the "share" button in hopes
that _this_ might give me the link; but no, it wanted me to share on G+.

~~~
pg
There's a reason for this pattern. When I complained to a friend at Google
about the new GMail compose, he said that what was driving it was that Larry
wanted a beautiful, consistent look throughout all Google's products. That
sort of motivation leads to design disasters. The various Google products may
have been inconsistent, but each of their designs was the product of long
evolution.

Steve Jobs could probably have forced consistency on Google's products without
breaking them, but few CEOs have the taste Steve had.

~~~
cromwellian
The new Maps interface isn't driven by the idea of making it "consistent" with
GMail, it's driven by the same idea that Google Search's homepage used to
represent -- simplicity. The Map is the UI.

A single search box. You type in POIs, the Map is constructed around the
search results.

The old Google Maps (the tile based one) was based on the idea of a multi-pane
map with gadgets and a side panel of 10 ranked search results, but the map was
the same no matter the search (pre-rendered tiles). Search results had to be
clicked on the map to get a popup to see what it was. The new Maps is based on
the idea that the _Map itself is the search result_ The POIs are rendered
directly into the map, just like a specialized paper map. It is based on
spatial based exploration and relevancy.

There's a difference between a design disaster and "I don't like this because
it is different than what I was used to and I don't want to change" IMHO, the
new maps is what Maps should have been all along.

~~~
studentrob
It was always a single search box. And it always centered around results.
Removing the side panel makes it so I now can't use a browser text search to
find the results I want faster.

So, I disagree, and I think the old way was both easier (because I knew it)
AND simpler (less complex). What now?

And here is the difference between Google employees and their users. Google
believes, and has told their employees, that when they change something, users
will always hate it because it's different, and that there is a gestation
period during which the majority will "get used to it."

That "gestation period" now seems infinite, and any change is allowed to
remain because real user feedback is ignored.

~~~
cromwellian
I think we've seen lot of instances of major vendors changing something, and
everyone complaining, and then the new design becomes the new normal.
Practically every Facebook redesign got pissed on.

Apple famously got ripped for Final Cut Pro X, for many of the same reasons
people are ripping the new Maps (bunch of power user features removed)

I personally prefer the map to show the results. They are spotlighted and easy
to see. The result box on the side used to annoy me because I'd have to keep
moving the mouse and/or eyes from the list to the map and back. The new Maps
consistently pops up the Infobox in the same place too.

You can't please everyone, but on mobile and touch devices, having a multi-
pane interaction model is lame anyway. So really, the desktop is simply
converging with the tablet.

~~~
enraged_camel
>>I think we've seen lot of instances of major vendors changing something, and
everyone complaining, and then the new design becomes the new normal.
Practically every Facebook redesign got pissed on.

You might be getting confused. There's a difference between the new design
becoming the "new normal," and the new design being tolerated because there
aren't any real alternatives to the product. After all, the only reason
Facebook users stopped complaining about each redesign is because they
realized Facebook doesn't care what users think. (But I bet when major
advertisers complain behind closed doors, they listen.)

Google Maps is not like Facebook. While it is currently the dominant maps
service, it is not the only one. Not only that, but it also cannot rely on a
strong network effect to protect it like Facebook can; if all your friends are
on Facebook, then being on MySpace is kind of dumb. Can you say the same about
Google Maps?

Here's the idea: you can afford to make sweeping, disruptive design changes
_if and only if_ you have a virtually unbreakable monopoly in your market.
This is why Microsoft could risk changing the MS Office interface back in
2007. Even if they had screwed up, what would people switch to? There wasn't a
good enough alternative. Again though, can you say the same about Google Maps?

~~~
cromwellian
No, obviously the stickiness is less based on network effects and more on
brand perception. But a brand can also die from staleness.

A new generation of users are coming online whose experience is predominately
a mobile one, and on touch, sparse, touchable, explorable interfaces are the
norm. If Google simply kept maps the way it has been for a decade, sooner or
later, they'd find themselves criticized because it doesn't work like "Apple
Maps".

In fact, people seem more willing to adopt radical new user paradigms if the
form factor changes. If I change your desktop email, you'll get annoyed, but
if I create a radically new out of the box mobile email experience, you'll be
more amenable to learn it.

~~~
coldtea
> _A new generation of users are coming online whose experience is
> predominately a mobile one, and on touch, sparse, touchable, explorable
> interfaces are the norm. If Google simply kept maps the way it has been for
> a decade, sooner or later, they 'd find themselves criticized because it
> doesn't work like "Apple Maps"._

Or, you know, they could have changed them into something better, either
incrementally or in one step, instead of the new broken design.

------
dasil003
The self-righteous anger about the irredeemable horror of the new Gmail
compose is starting to get a bit old.

First of all, it's not as one-sided as people are making it out. I was also
annoyed when it first came out, but there are some clear benefits. Being able
to browse email in the background while composing email is a huge win for my
email workload (CTO for a 30-person company).

There are some important philosophical reasons behind some of these changes
that I strongly agree with:

First, the small window by default encourages short emails which is always
good. The OA seems to glorify long-winded CEO screeds, but by definition the
vast majority of emails are going to be short (and if they're not I don't want
to work with you), so it's correct to optimize for the short case. The two
levels of pop-out (the second of which the OA appears to be completely
ignorant of) scale up and out quite nicely.

Second, the hidden headers and formatting options are encouraging simplicity
in email. Most email should _not_ have formatting, and arguably most emails
don't have CCs, BCCs, or edited subjects either. Putting them behind one extra
click is really not the huge usability nightmare people make out. It takes a
little while to get used to and then you just subconsciously do the double
click, it's not really any harder than finding them in a sea of icons, it's
just that previously _you were used to that sea of options_. The optimization
for the common case is done correctly.

For me the new design (after turning on compact view) is a moderate
improvement that did nothing to dilute the core value of Gmail which are the
labels, keyboard shortcuts/navigation, conversation view and search/filters.
Running it inside Mailplane makes it even better.

There are definitely annoyances, but nothing that's even close to driving me
to something like mutt, and forget about GUI clients, all of them feel like
molasses compared to Gmail.

~~~
enochroot
I chuckled when I read:

> First, the small window by default encourages short emails which is always
> good.

"Sorry mom, I intended to write you a longer message but gmail encourages me
to keep it short."

> Putting them behind one extra click is really not the huge usability
> nightmare people make out.

Folks at Microsoft are nodding their heads and furiously tweeting this
sentence.

~~~
dasil003
Nice pith, but how about adding some meat to that rebuttal.

> _" Sorry mom, I intended to write you a longer message but gmail encourages
> me to keep it short."_

The topic at hand is power emailing. Not people who write a message to their
family once a week as the majority of their email.

> _Folks at Microsoft are nodding their heads and furiously tweeting this
> sentence._

I don't even know where you get this. Having a minimal interface with the most
used features present and others grouped under menus of some sort is an age-
old proven UI convention. This is the exact opposite of what I think of when I
think of Microsoft software or other bloated programs with toolbars and
ribbons bursting at the seams. Citing Microsoft is just a way for you to
justify your emotional reaction to my comment without adding any substance.

~~~
amirmc
> _" The topic at hand is power emailing. Not people who write a message to
> their family once a week as the majority of their email."_

That use-case is completely valid. Unless you're going to argue that GMail is
_meant_ to be a'power emailing' tool, which I'd disagree with. Optimising for
something that doesn't suit the majority of users is usually a mistake.

~~~
dasil003
I'm sorry, your message makes no sense to me. There's nothing about Gmail that
prevents that use case. I just responded because it's a stupid example.

> _Unless you 're going to argue that GMail is meant to be a'power emailing'
> tool, which I'd disagree with._

Okay, so first of all, yes Google was in fact invented to be a power email
tool because it was built by engineers for engineers.

But that's neither here nor there because obviously they are trying to improve
it for the most common case _which is the source of the much-reviled changes_.

It's not normal people that are complaining about these changes. It's
entrenched power emailers who had their workflow thrown off by change and
whose muscle memory is leading them to believe that this redesign is a
disaster. New users won't have any worse experience than they did before, I
guarantee you that.

~~~
amirmc
> _" I'm sorry, your message makes no sense to me..."_

I'm trying to point out that the topic is _wider_ than power emailing as these
feature changes affect everyone. You don't get to choose which ones to adopt.

> _" Okay, so first of all, yes Google was in fact invented to be a power
> email tool because it was built by engineers for engineers. ... obviously
> they are trying to improve it for the most common case"_

It doesn't follow that Gmail was 'invented to be a power email tool'. Also,
there's an assumption in there they're genuinely trying to improve for the
common case. It could also be a range of internal pressures forcing changes
that are actually _detrimental_ for users. Companies fuck up like this all the
time, so let's not pretend that Google is somehow exempt from that class of
big-company-mistake.

~~~
dasil003
> _I 'm trying to point out that the topic is wider than power emailing as
> these feature changes affect everyone. You don't get to choose which ones to
> adopt._

And I'm arguing that Gmail's design decisions are made with a solid basis in
the widest common use case despite all the self-righteous nerdrage piled upon
the tired mantra that Google is horrible at design.

> _It doesn 't follow that Gmail was 'invented to be a power email tool'._

What do you mean it "doesn't follow"? I'm not justifying this as a logical
argument, I'm repeating statements I've read from Gmail's creators in
interviews over the years.

------
enochroot
For my usage, the new compose has been a major step back. It now takes
additional clicks to accomplish basic tasks (e.g. change the subject) and is
less clear on what I am doing (e.g. when you cc someone and switch back to the
body, the cc-ed names is now in To: line making it appear that you are sending
it to them directly.) There are many other examples where the experience has
become worse.

I am not clear if Google truly believes the new compose is an improvement or
if there is a behind the scenes reason that is making up for the decrease in
usability. The new product is so obviously a step back (to me) that I am
assuming it's the latter. Has anyone seen a write up that has an explanation
other than "improved practicality?"

~~~
rjbond3rd
Oh man, I wish I knew. Have you noticed this one? You're editing a wrapped
paragraph, you use the right-arrow key to move, and once you're at the end of
-any- line, it suddenly jumps down to the "..." (the toggle for displaying the
quoted message).

(Also, why hide the formatting bar...)

~~~
fluidcruft
Ah, is that what's happening? All I know is I go back to proof my email before
sending and I keep randomly ending up at the bottom and cursing as I scroll
back.

------
molecule
To avoid being distracted by the gmail inbox and to have a clean composition
interface, I always keep this URL bookmarked, and it still works w/ the new
compose:

[https://mail.google.com/mail/?view=cm&fs=1&tf=1&source=mailt...](https://mail.google.com/mail/?view=cm&fs=1&tf=1&source=mailto)

~~~
lingben
not to be snarky but you know, this is 2013, not 1999. If the largest and best
funded company can't get something as simple as email right, then they should
just pack up and go home. Or at least fire their whole UX/UI department and
start fresh.

By right, I mean a clean, simple interface that you don't need to judiciously
learn over dozens of hours of frustrating trial and error or by googling in
support forums.

The old gmail UX was fine. In fact, compared to the new compose it was the
bees knees. It takes humility to be able to realize that. But Jason wants to
leave his mark - unfortunately the mark is an ugly smear.

~~~
general_failure
Who is jason?

~~~
lingben
Jason Cornwell is responsible for the atrocious gmail UX

------
habosa
What gives me anxiety is complaining about minor UX changes for a class-
leading free product on a site that's called "Hacker News". I hate to get all
old-fogey but Hacker News has really turned into "the random opinions of
people in the startup world". I learn a lot less on this site than I used to.

Sorry to the OP, it's not your fault that you provided content the community
likes and I have no personal issue with you.

~~~
illumen
It's comments like yours that I don't like. Also, I don't like this comment
I'm writing.

Gmail had good UX, and people went to it for that. Now it has a few flaws. As
people who care about UX, these flaws are worth discussing.

Some 'hackers' don't do UX, which is fine. So those people may find the topic
boring. But many people here are making things, and find the UX direction of
the leading web email client interesting. If only to see future trends in web
site development. Other reasons this is interesting is to see how they are
monetising their apps more, and how they are trying to make email a worse
marketing channel.

Having worked at Google, it is understandable if you get annoyed when people
bash your company. But that comes with being successful. So don't sweat it too
much.

xo

------
bane
Something that gets me in a little trouble from time to time, forwarding an
email includes the entire previous conversation chain...which isn't normally a
problem, but gmail compresses the previous chain into a collapsed [...] box
that I sometimes forget is there. So on occasion I forward parts of emails to
other parties that probably shouldn't be seeing those other bits.

I have to remember to expand it, then delete all the content I don't want to
be included in the forward.

Other comments here have pointed other gui foibles, I agree with all the maps
complaints, I'm on the beta for it and switch back to classic almost 70% of
the time because I can't get something done in the new one.

And I won't repeat what I had to say about the absolute brokenness of the
youtube interface.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6314694](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6314694)

Even in search, lots of the nice sidebar utilities I used all the time like
the search tools' time range are now buried two clicks deep. Searches give you
quick options for web, images, maps, shopping and applications, but one I use
several times a day, video, is buried.

~~~
qu4z-2
Forwarding the entire thread with each email is also bad netiquette. If anyone
still cares.

------
comex
I suppose this comment comes too late to have much visibility, but as for me,
I can deal with the fullscreen popup thingy.

The inability to default to replying in plaintext to HTML mails is annoying,
but I can deal with that, too.

What I can't deal with is the broken UX for the fake HTML elements, which were
previously native controls that worked fine.

The To field is now a magic list of clickable email addresses instead of a
regular textbox. Great, but clicking and dragging to select no longer works,
typing with a selection active does not delete it, and undo no longer works.

The From field (for use with multiple email addresses), which used to be a
native <select>, is now... a HTML reimplementation with no additional
functionality. It sort of works from the keyboard - you can press space to
bring up the list, up/down to choose an item, and enter to select. But it's
not quite the same (as OS X, at any rate): the list starts with no selection
rather than the current item, you can't press space again to close the list,
and you can't choose an item by typing. In fact, if you try to do a few things
in the new compose, including typing on the list, the keystrokes _pass through
to the greyed-out main window_ and you perform random email actions.

These interactions are not inherently critical: I could easily learn to live
without them in general. But they work for _every other like control in the
OS_ , and they used to work here, so naturally I have and will retain muscle
memory for them; the result is infuriating.

I'm actually quite surprised nobody has made a user script to fix these and
the other issues in the three weeks since my account was forced onto the new
compose; Gmail's obfuscation makes this a little more annoying, but not too
bad if you stick to modifying elements rather than directly interacting with
the JavaScript. I'll probably end up writing one myself.

------
gruseom
I agree with this post's use of the word "ruined". That's what the new Compose
did. It's a usability train wreck which I'm astonished they put out at all,
let alone impose it on users against their will. There are big things wrong
with it and there are little things wrong with it and the sum total is
frustrating and disconcerting. It's one thing to redesign a website, but email
is a huge part of my daily work, and this feels as if renovators just drove a
post up through the living room floor.

~~~
lingben
Jason Cornwell is a stupendous example of the Peter Principle.

~~~
gruseom
Let's not get personal. There are lots of ways this kind of thing can happen.

~~~
lingben
How is it personal to mention the individual who is responsible for the
change?

~~~
goblin89
Three of four comments you left in this thread call Jason's name and attempt
to discredit him, with little substantial criticism addressing Gmail UI.

~~~
lingben
You are wrong. Jason's work discredits him rather well without any need for me
or anyone to resort to personal insults.

As for substantial criticism of gmail's new UX, why rehash what has been
already discussed over and over again here and everywhere? just google for 50+
well thought out blog posts and comments to those blog posts and google forum
discussions.

I'm sorry if you are a googler and feel the need 'to circle the wagons' out of
misplaced loyalty. Or if you fail to see that it is pertinent to mention the
person responsible for the changes out of a perverse sense of 'white
knighting'.

Now please downvote this to prove how intelligent you are.

------
iak8god
I accidentally deleted an email thread the other day. How? When replying in
Gmail, there's a little button below the editing area that has a trash can
icon and will discard a draft. There's a button with an identical icon on the
same screen, just above the editing area that will delete the email/thread. I
don't know much about design, but this strikes me as an extremely poor
interface.

------
thezilch
Clicking the "Full-screen" button on the compose modal shows the following
dialogue; perhaps the author just closed the tip?

    
    
      Click here to exit full-screen.
      (Shift + click to compose in a new window.)
    
      You can set full-screen as your default using
      the More menu next to Discard.
    

Likewise, the tooltip on the "Full-screen" button states _Full-screen (Shift
for Pop-out)_. And for someone that spends so much time in email, like a
developer and his IDE, it might be time to improve one's efficiency with
keyboard coords -- gmail shortcuts
([https://support.google.com/mail/answer/6594](https://support.google.com/mail/answer/6594))
-- and use _Shift+c_ (popup) or _Shift+d_ (tab) composition.

------
colbyh
I'm actually quite fond of the new compose window and I fall into essentially
the same category of email user as you. My anxiety was in fact lessened a bit
by the chat-like (and therefore more casual) vibe, thanks to large expanses of
white space making me feel like I /must/ fill them with text.

Email anxiety is no fun, maybe a native client would be the best way to ensure
your workflow is optimized?

~~~
onelovelyname
Makes sense. I do like it for casual mail - e.g., if I'm setting up a quick
time to meet an advisor. But for more important things, it doesn't work well
for me.

I am checking out Airmail thanks to an older HN thread. Cheers!

------
alexholehouse
The "full screen mode" is like a parody of poor user interface and false
promises.

That said, Outlook 365 is also bloody awful in terms of usability. Say I've
sent an email to a list of people, there's no way (as far as I can tell, which
is all that matters really) to then copy those email addresses. You have to
literally click through each one and get the address individually.

------
notatoad
"My messages are important, god dammit."

no, they aren't. get over it. The new compose does a great job of framing your
sent emails in the way your recipients are probably viewing them: quickly, and
often from a small screen/window.

~~~
onelovelyname
Great point, thinking of it that way gives some insight into why Google may
have changed the UI.

~~~
Demiurge
The insight being is that Google is now discarding the professional crowd who
bought into their Apps for ADD teenagers. Time to look for alternatives.

~~~
tanzam75
Google Apps generates less than 3% of Google's revenues. (Probably much less.)

Thus, not enough of a money-maker to influence the direction of Gmail.

------
bnejad
Really, anxiety? Use a native/local mail client and I'm sure it will solve
your problems.

~~~
onelovelyname
Yeah I'm kinda OCD about my email.

Thanks, just found the HN thread about email clients. Checking out Airmail
now.

~~~
RDeckard
Link to the HN thread with email clients?

~~~
onelovelyname
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6286127](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6286127)

------
RDeckard
I still use the basic HTML client in many circumstances, esp. when tethering
off my phone with limited reception:

[https://mail.google.com/mail/h/](https://mail.google.com/mail/h/)

It approximates the first Ajax/DHTML interface that Gmail introduced when it
launched in 2004.

~~~
thrownaway2424
The basic HTML view of gmail has no latency hiding abilities of any kind. It
is _much_ slower for every action, and it gets worse the slower your
connection is. If you have a high bandwidth, high latency link like "4G"
mobile service, ordinary Gmail is almost certainly better.

If course if you have something like GPRS then basic HTML is just the thing.

------
AznHisoka
Gmail also seems to shorten the names of people you email to (at least for
me). That makes me second-guess whether I'm really emailing the right person
at times.

~~~
enochroot
Agreed. It also is not showing the email address making it easy to mistakenly
send a personal email to someone's work account and vice versa.

------
hobs
I literally wrote dozens of complaints to google about this, obviously they go
into a black hole of nobody cares, but I like their feedback feature because
it says "What part of the screen is the problem" and I highlight EVERYTHING.
The new youtube interface? Garbage. STEAMING GARBAGE. The new gmail interface?
Sounds like you want a desktop client BECAUSE GARBAGE.

EDIT: AAAAAAH SERIOUSLY HOW CAN YOU REGRESS SO BAD!

------
ww520
The new GMail Compose is a horrible horrible interface. It's bordering
unusable. After looking around to disable it without any success, I started
looking for alternatives. I ended up installing Thunderbird and couldn't be
happier! With IMAP I can run Thunderbird on different machines and got the
benefit of moving from machine to machine and still be able to access mail
accounts.

Thunderbird is the way to go!

------
DigitalSea
Google have taken quite a few missteps with their UI changes to Gmail and
Youtube especially. I'm not a designer, but as a web developer know a thing or
two about easy-to-use and decent interfaces. The new Gmail compose popup to me
signifies the once predominately engineer led company is turning into a design
led one.

While being a design-led company isn't necessarily a completely bad thing, you
need those engineers and developers guiding the designers and keeping things
in check. Unrestrained creativity can be a dangerous thing.

I feel the same way about the new compose popup. It's intrusive and
distracting and I even emailed them about it sometime ago. I got some cookie
cutter response about how Google are continually refining their products, blah
blah.

I would use a third party email client, but email is crucial for me and if the
chances of something going wrong between the connection of the client and
Google's servers are higher than that of losing an email composed within the
Gmail interface itself.

------
laureny
My problem with that is people who write emails in full screen windows end up
writing poorly formatted emails (very long paragraphs) because they are now
composing their emails with 300 columns.

Besides, a CEO that can't focus on writing a message unless they don't have
any other distraction on their screen should probably work on their focus
skills.

~~~
mrb
_" should probably work on their focus skills"_

Terrible argument. "Let's add more distractions to the screen, because the
user should be able to focus anyway".

Also, Google broke the "Best Secret Gmail Feature" [1]. In the last few
months, you can't select text and hit reply to quote it anymore. Grrr

[1] [http://gizmodo.com/5963768/the-best-secret-gmail-feature-
is-...](http://gizmodo.com/5963768/the-best-secret-gmail-feature-is-hiding-in-
plain-sight)

~~~
Monotoko
Really? This still works for me, I use it a lot...

------
ams6110
Doesn't gmail still offer imap? Use a real mail client, not a web page. Much
more fulfilling in almost every way. I like emacs, because I like to be able
to write emails using the same editor I use for everything else. But that's a
preference. There are many good mail clients to choose from.

~~~
bcj
Of course that doesn't always protect you from Google's whims. Google
purchased the company that made the mail client I like, Sparrow.

~~~
derekp7
This is actually a good thing. I've always wanted to get better at HTML5 /
"web 2.0" programming. Now I have an incentive. I think I'll just go ahead and
make my own web mail client, with imap support, and host it on my own server
(or AWS account). Can't think of a better way to learn than to have a good
project (necessity and invention, and all that).

------
dhruvbaldawa
Google products changes recently have been a pain to use. Damn, its so
annoying coping up with these crappy UX changes nowadays

1\. First of all the new Gmail inbox with the tabbed interface, it does not
show you the number of unread mails in each of the tab, once you have opened a
tab, the new mails count vanishes. There should at least be an option for
enabling that.

2\. Hangouts, it just sucks. Does not work reliably on a data connection,
messages are received late. Can't discover online contacts on the UI easily.
Makes it easier to chat but harder to find people to chat. I still don't get
why did it replace a fully functional chat client with a half-baked piece of
crap !?

I don't even want to get started about Google+, the connection model is very
good, but the execution is very crappy. Why is Google forcing everyone onto
Google+ ?

------
derefr
I have a feeling that this new design ("docked floating div" instead of "new
regular window"; "modal floating div" instead of "new fullscreen window") is
an effect of Windows and OSX, in their latest iterations, pushing apps to
fullscreen virtual desktops.

If Gmail is the whole screen, you can't actually open a "new window"; it would
open back on the primary desktop, instead of within the app's screen. Maybe
Windows+OSX need to refine their "app-desktop" solutions with some limited
form of window management, so that every app isn't having to reinvent its own
window management just to keep its windows visible...

~~~
rsynnott
> is an effect of Windows and OSX, in their latest iterations, pushing apps to
> fullscreen virtual desktops.

Hrm, possibly Windows 8 does that; haven't used it. To do it on MacOS, you
have to either click the strange icon in the top right, or hit the highly
obvious key combination CMD-CTRL-F. Anecdotally, most people don't even seem
to realise that the fullscreen thing exists, unless it's pointed out to them.

------
petercooper
[https://twitter.com/NewComposeSux](https://twitter.com/NewComposeSux)
collects together a lot of sentiment about how great this new feature is. I
kinda feel sorry for Jason Cornwell. He's been blasted with "feedback" on
Twitter since it went live.

~~~
onelovelyname
Thanks, checked it out. Impressed that Jason takes the time to respond to many
of the tweets.

------
md224
Umm... powered by Storystrings, but features the Svbtle network's Kudos button
(as "cheers")... is there a connection here, or is the former borrowing from
the latter?

~~~
rajivtiru
Using the github library here:
[https://github.com/masukomi/kudos](https://github.com/masukomi/kudos)

Also from the sourcecode on this blog: <!--No plagiarizing here. Thank you to
SVBTLE and
[https://github.com/masukomi/kudos-->](https://github.com/masukomi/kudos-->)

~~~
dcurtis
Interesting that someone took my code, nearly character-for-character, and
"open sourced" it without permission.

~~~
ozh
Client side code _is_ open source.

~~~
skeletonjelly
But open source doesn't imply a certain license. Does it?

------
billnguyen
I could live with the new Compose... its the hidden/floating "Formatting
Options" that really grinds my gears.

~~~
jinushaun
A lot of people complain about the window size, but I agree. It's really the
hidden options and extra clicks for me. Everything that used to be easy is now
harder. And things that used to be hard are easier.

------
rattray
One trick I use for composing messages: Add "compose" as a search engine to
chrome. I use the url
[https://mail.google.com/mail/?view=cm&fs=1&tf=1&su=](https://mail.google.com/mail/?view=cm&fs=1&tf=1&su=)
, which means I type "compose", hit `tab`, and then type the subject line of
the email I want to send.

Makes for a nice way to get quickly to a distraction-free compose window.

------
canthonytucci
I'm not sure it's a good idea to take anyone's opinion of gmail seriously that
doesn't use the keyboard shortcuts. If you really are composing so much, hit
'c', not reach all the way over to the mouse like an orangutan.

[https://support.google.com/mail/answer/6594?hl=en](https://support.google.com/mail/answer/6594?hl=en)

Pop the window out and maximize it if you don't like the new interface. If you
hit d, it will open the compose window in a new tab, _the whole thing_,
dedicated to your awesome email that you really need to concentrate on
writing.

But as for the "hidden text formatting controls".

Don't use text formatting; send plain text email like a decent human being.

If you need to _emphasize_ or:

1.e

2.nu

3.mer

4.ate

that's why we have markdown. No one wants to see your fancy fonts and fuchsia
signature. Content, yo.

If it's that much of an issue, why not edit content in your favorite editor
then paste it into gmail?

If you're on a mac, you can format to your heart's desire in textedit (full-
screen-mode-obviously) then copy it all and paste into gmail and all your
stupid font size changes and bold shit will still be there.

EDIT: minor changes, also imagine that the formatted stuff is the raw
markdown, because I forgot that this does that.

Edit 2: it's cool to hate -
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkRJzErnRmY](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkRJzErnRmY)

------
cpeterso
I sometimes wonder whether Google developers only use giant screens and don't
realize how much the "comfortable" whitespace on Gmail and Google+ layouts
detracts from the product on smaller screens or laptops.

------
uptown
Why not just hold shift when you click "compose"?

~~~
Sulfolobus
Using shift-click to open in a new window is a fairly standard behaviour in
most browsers these days isn't it? Then again I guess it wasn't intuitive in
this case.

Edit: I should note that the above is actually a genuine question.

~~~
cheapsteak
Shift-click to open in a new window is a pattern for links. Gmail's 'Compose'
doesn't look like a link, it looks like a button.

Shift-clicking the 'search' button doesn't work on Google.com.

~~~
plorkyeran
> Shift-clicking the 'search' button doesn't work on Google.com.

It does in pre-webkit Opera. One of the things I really miss in other
browsers.

------
newobj
Holy cow. I'm starting to experience outrage outrage and this post may have
been the straw that broke the camel's back.

~~~
colmvp
Indeed. Of all the 'usability nightmares' I've seen on the internet, Digg was
by far the worst offender and deservedly so given the transition of users from
Digg to Reddit. Gmail has made some odd changes (specifically compose on the
bottom right) but ultimately it hasn't irked me at all. I mean, if people want
a free e-mail service, they can still go to Outlook or Yahoo.

------
frank_boyd
> Anxiety over the new Gmail Compose

Anxiety over some feature?

If your anxiety doesn't come from the fact that you agree to the concept of
the surveillance state (by using products like Gmail), then something is
clearly wrong.

~~~
scrrr
Yeah exactly. This should be a top comment. But apparently everyone is moving
on, business as usual, as if the case were closed. And a lot of people could
not access your accounts. And read your email.

Apparently some UI-issue is a bigger threat to user-satisfaction.

Weird.

~~~
frank_boyd
> Weird.

I'd say _frightening_.

This is HN. Readers are people who understand and produce technology. People
who also understand the nefarious potential it holds, if abused.

The situation just doesn't compute.

------
res0nat0r
Click the "-><-" arrows at the top and you can go back to the old style.

I like the new version and wish they'd used it long ago, I want a large box to
type my emails in, not a small rectangle.

~~~
onelovelyname
Clicking "-><-" brings me to a small chat-like box for my email. Agreed
though, I like large boxes for email.

------
nnethercote
The window size and position is fine; I like being able to easily refer to
other emails.

It's what they've done to the editing that bugs me.

\- It encourages top-posting. To bottom-post, you have to click the "..."
button, and then remove the two blank lines at the top.

\- Fast selection of text with shift-Pg{Up,Dn} no longer works.

\- Firefox's "It's All Text" add-on, which lets you drop into a real editor to
edit a textbox, no longer works with it.

------
oulipian
The idiotic modal window is bad enough, but the new Gmail Compose also breaks
basic shortcut keys (such as Command+left or right arrow to skip to the end of
a line), at least in Firefox on my Mac. And pasting text in "Plain text" mode
often adds weird line breaks. Gmail used to be such a pleasure to use and I
cringe to click Compose now.

------
dmourati
You know what I like about the new Gmail compose? Nothing.

------
Demiurge
I don't understand, why can't they just have the 'show all options and full
screen' mode as well? They had it optional for a while now, what does it cost
to maintain the old composer?

------
agumonkey
Composing a new message should be a lot more RESTful and first class, not a
modal popup. I understand the on-the-fly desire but not at the cost of
manipulation.

------
robryan
Personally I am a big fan of the new compose, although I can also understand
why it isn't right for some people.

My usage would be something like 80% very short emails, 5 lines or under with
maybe a copy paste block. Occasionally I will want to add an attachment or a
cc.

The speed and the ability to still see the email list works for me. I should
also add the majority of my gmail use is done on a 27 inch screen.

------
tghw
I find it very hard to have sympathy for someone who says _" For better or
worse, email takes up a large part of my work life."_ and then chooses to use
a free, ad-supported email service.

If this is such a crucial tool for you, then you should be willing to pay a
reasonable price for something you're happy with instead of just complaining
about it online.

~~~
human_error
Maybe she's a business user and pays for it. Business version also has the
same bad layout.

------
benjamta
I do quite like the new compose - I get a bit annoyed by the in line editor
when you reply though. Feels a little inconsistent.

------
mebreuer
If you're such a heavy gmail user, I'd recommend using keyboard shortcuts for
linking, formatting, adding cc/bcc, etc.

Once you enable them, you can easily check if you've forgotten by hitting ?,
and within a month you won't have to touch your mouse (or navigate the UI) for
anything save for the esoteric features.

------
niuzeta
I don't mind designers and/or developers changing their products. If they
think they have something _better_ (disregarding the contrived-ness of the
term for now), they're more than welcome to provide me the new stuff.

Just don't take back my old stuff which I'm familiar with. Give us the choice,
damn it.

------
TallGuyShort
I hated the feature at first as well, but I've found myself multi-tasking
recently where I type multiple emails in parallel as I collect my thoughts for
each. It's growing on me, but I definitely see the validity of the criticism.
I do wish it was easier to get at the advanced features.

------
goblin89
If email is important to you, maybe you should take some time to set up an
email client.

I personally am using Gmail from OS X Mail via IMAP for a couple of years now.
Once you get used to the software, you can focus on reading and writing the
mail—there's no distraction caused by continuous UI evolution.

------
lnanek2
I really hate that thing as well. Although it isn't just supposed to be quick,
it is supposed to allow referencing several other emails while you write.
Which I don't do so it is terrible for me.

------
ajanuary
The shortcuts for CC and BCC help a lot with adding recipients.

Obviously that doesn't do much to solve the problem of it squeezing them all
onto one line when you focus out if you're paranoid about recipients.

------
noir_lord
I logged into an old Hotmail account the other day.

The new interface they are using is massively better than Google's, I fell in
love straight away, it's actually quite lovely and very fluid to use.

------
loceng
I just shifted my behaviours to different tools that Compose is no longer
suitable for. It was a bit of an annoying shift, though in the end felt more
helpful with forcing me to organize.

------
tucosan
If you have shortcuts enabled in gmail settings you can simply hit `d`
(instead of `c`) and you get a full dedicated compose window in a new browser
window.

So this is simply a non issue!

------
airencracken
If you don't like being subject to changes in your UI, then stop using a
webapp that you have no control over. Use a sane client over IMAP and be done
with it.

------
paul_f
Seems there is an easy solution. Just use Thunderbird.

------
dcc1
Whoever approved this change at Google deserves to be fired, its a serious
usability fuckup

------
ChrisArchitect
"recently"? October 2012 this started rolling out....geezus.

~~~
curiousdannii
And I opted out. I believe that it was only recently enforced on everyone.

~~~
GVIrish
I'd be curious to see what the opt-out rate on the new compose UI was. I like
to adopt new UI improvements but that was one of the few that I immediately
hated and switched back. I wonder if this feature was liked more or less than
some of Google's other UI changes.

I get the feeling that Google is ignoring user feedback for some of these
types of thing so they can push users towards their corporate goals. Youtube
badgering people to switch to their Google+ username is a good example.
Clearly a lot of people don't want to do that, yet they persist.

------
frozenport
Thunderbird

------
amerika_blog
The new Gmail compose is 20 years worth of interface design learning, lost in
a single poor choice.

~~~
triplesec
google is good at that. See the latest iteration of google maps for android.
Ugh.

~~~
krakensden
My favorite part is that it doesn't work with the hardware search or menu
buttons.

------
encoderer
tldr; Somebody moved her cheese.

