
Mozilla is investigating why Dell is charging to install Firefox - tweakz
http://thenextweb.com/insider/2014/03/05/mozilla-investigating-dell-uk-charging-16-25-install-firefox-says-deal-exists-anyone/
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primitivesuave
The only people who would need such a service are people who are completely
technologically illiterate and only know of the Firefox brand, and those
people may not be informed enough to know that it's free.

Dell needs to weigh the gain of a small amount of money with the price of
losing their integrity and consumer trust.

~~~
thematt
I wasn't aware any PC manufacturers had integrity or consumer trust left, the
least of which being Dell. Have you fired up a newly shipped Dell PC lately?
It's a cesspool of crapware. No less than a dozen Dell Utilities, "anti-
virus", media players, etc.

Don't worry though, they'd be happy to work on your "slow" computer if you
purchase the support add-on.

~~~
breakall
I was disappointed to find my new Lenovo Ideapad similarly loaded down with
crap. Spent a few hours just installing nonsense.

~~~
ams6110
Pretty much all consumer PCs are that way. Do a clean OS reinstall out of the
box. Unfortunately most consumer PCs don't ship with the media needed to do
this.

~~~
kretor
No need for installation media when you're on Windows 8. It has a built-in
reinstall/refresh function. Just go to the Start screen and type reinstall.

~~~
GauntletWizard
And I trust the reinstall program that lives on the same system with this
crapware why? I want a fresh install from Microsoft-signed media, not the
crapware re-installing itself while it wipes all user-data.

In the immortal words of Ellen Ripley: Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way
to be sure.

~~~
camus2
totally agree,lol, i'd format the hardrive too just in case. 10 times if
needed...

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nonchalance
> Dell has responded saying that this practice is okay because the company is
> charging for the service and not the product.

~~~
dkuntz2
> If you are using the Mozilla Mark(s) for the unaltered binaries you are
> distributing, you may not charge for that product. By not charging, we mean
> the Mozilla product must be without cost and its distribution (whether by
> download or other media) may not be subject to a fee, or tied to subscribing
> to or purchasing a service, or the collection of personal information.

Specifically the "By not charging, we mean the Mozilla product must be without
cost and its distribution (whether by download or other media) may not be
subject to a fee" part.

~~~
nonchalance
The problem is that Mozilla's policy applies to distribution but not
necessarily to installation. Since this is a legal issue, the details are very
important.

In this case, the process of ensuring that a functioning version of Firefox
resides on the machine involves:

1\. Transferring the Firefox software to the machine

2\. Explicitly preparing the machine so that the Firefox software can be run
(in this case, installing Firefox)

The Policy only applies to the first item. No part of the policy refers to the
second action, and it's fair game for Dell to charge a fee for the labor
associated with installing the software (they cannot, of course, charge a fee
for the part of the process where the software is distributed to the machine).

If this sounds like nitpicking, welcome to the world of law

~~~
thedufer
I would be willing to bet that they aren't running an installer on each
person's machine, though. If they created multiple disk images - one with FF,
one without - and are charging to use the one with FF, then it looks like
they're charging for distribution.

~~~
nonchalance
If they really did create two sets of disk images based on presence of
Firefox, Dell could argue that the price is not for the software but for other
differences between the disk images.

Note that I'm not arguing about the spirit of the actions, but merely about
whether Mozilla actually has a case here

~~~
tcheard
Not if they are selling the service as a "Mozilla Firefox Web Browser
Installation Service"

~~~
FireBeyond
Does one have to physically run an executable and click through the process to
have “installed” software? The software is distributed in a different state to
the installed state.

------
btgeekboy
For what it's worth, it's far cheaper than having GeekSquad do it. For just
$30, you can drop your computer off and have it installed in-store!

[http://www.geeksquad.com/services/computers-
networking/softw...](http://www.geeksquad.com/services/computers-
networking/software-installation.aspx)

~~~
nacs
No it's not. £16.25 British Pound Sterling equals $27.17 US Dollar.

So prices are almost identical and actually you could say Geeksquad has the
better deal because they say they will install any software ("3-D imaging"
programs and such which could have an install that is actually more involved
than hitting next 4 times).

~~~
btgeekboy
You're right. When I said "it's cheaper" I was looking at the online chat one
that's $40, and revised my comment to choose the cheaper option without
editing the direct price comparison.

Realistically, though, the cost of the service wasn't my point. Rather, it's
that paying someone to install software for you is not unprecedented and
completely legal. It may be a loophole that toes the line, sure, but toeing
the line is not equivalent to crossing it.

------
yeukhon
On one hand, Dell seems to think there is a market of people willing to pay to
install Firefox. Whoever conducted that research probably found people
trusting Firefox than IE or Chrome or Opera. That's just my guess. I have
heard people saying "web download is broken. You first have to use some
browser like Chrome or IE to install Firefox, but what if that IE version is
compromised? What if people click on the wrong mozilla.org by googling and
instead installed a malicious, modified Mozilla firefox?" Maybe Dell read HNs
and thought "yeah let's help the poor souls out there!"
([http://noncombatant.org/2014/03/03/downloading-software-
safe...](http://noncombatant.org/2014/03/03/downloading-software-safely-is-
nearly-impossible/))

On the other hand, this charging practice is ridiculous. I can understand some
people are not technical at all (espeically the elders and new computer
users), but come on, this is a ripe off. If you already created a custom image
to load into every hard drive you sell to your customer, modify that image by
adding Firefox. How much effort is that, Dell?

 _edit_ : Does Dell's installation bundles with third-party addons? Remember
the old toolbar spam? It would be interesting one day Dell decides to sell Tor
installation service.

~~~
nonchalance
I think there's a different force at play here:

When the software comes with the computer, you can turn around and complain to
Dell about the software. There is someone you can call, and generally it's
rolled into the phone support contract.

When the software is installed afterwards, you don't have the same ease of
complaining. Dell can argue that Firefox somehow messed up your computer.

That is a convenience many people are willing to pay for. Whether they would
pay the 16£ is a different question

~~~
yeukhon
_EDIT_ : Ha. I forgot IE is part of Windows, damn.

Sure, but who's next on this service installation? I also want to make an
analogy of asking Dell to upgrade 2GB to 4GB or to 8GB. I don't know how much
an upgrade cost now, but a few years back it was about $20-$40? It was worth
it to upgrade a hardware, not quite sure how it plays out asking Dell to
install Firefox at ~$27 USD. Also consider Firefox upgrades every few months;
things going to break, I don't know if Dell is ready to do GOOD support, or
just one of those "have you tried power off and restart your computer?" This
is also something Mozilla might need to look at as SUMO can get pretty
overwhelming. The web is sometimes too technical to debug :(

~~~
nonchalance
.. or that IE comes with Windows and Google pays to include Chrome in Dell
computers. For example, here's a 2009 note involving Sony:
[http://gadgetwise.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/01/sony-
defaults...](http://gadgetwise.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/01/sony-defaults-to-
google-chrome/)

~~~
yeukhon
Opps. I forgot all about that. :) Thanks for pointing out. Been a Linux user
for far too long.

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kodablah
Simple solution here...

To remove the contention, Dell should make the fee appear for "additional
software" even though FF is the only option. This will make it clear you are
paying for the installation of additional software and not FF directly. And
when they add another piece of additional software, I fully expect Dell won't
include a separate charge since it's for "changing the stock image".

On a side note, is this not automated? Is the installation of FF really done
by a human? And if not, how is this different than a Ticketmaster-esque
because-we-can fee?

~~~
wdewind
> And if not, how is this different than a Ticketmaster-esque because-we-can
> fee?

For one thing you aren't blocked from downloading and using Firefox if you
don't purchase the installation option through Dell.

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interpol_p
From the article:

> “ _Dell Configuration Services, including the application loading service,
> ensure customers have a complete, ready to use product when it arrives,_ ”

How do they not get it this badly? Customers expect a complete and usable
product _just by purchasing it_. Paying extra to ensure it is "ready and
usable," is nonsense. Is this really what Dell thinks their customers want?

~~~
Crito
Honestly I would rather Dell try to charge me to install extra crap than
install it without asking/charging on the assumption that I want it _(or more
accurately, on the assumption that I won 't be annoyed enough by it to pick a
different vendor in the future)_.

~~~
interpol_p
My point was that if they consider their installation service something that
makes their product "ready and usable," then it should not be an optional
charge.

(And in the end, isn't it just choosing a different disk image in their
configuration system? Hardly a 'service.')

I would want Dell to sell me a computer that they would be happy and proud to
use themselves. Not try to fill up my shopping cart with optional extras,
deals, and crap.

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CmonDev
Yes, it's Mozilla who should be paying people to have them install Firefox.

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al2o3cr
Um, 'cause they're dicks? :)

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Flott
27$ in time to install Firefox? Dell PC are THAT slow?!

