
I Bought A Firetruck - amartya916
http://geckodesigns.kinja.com/so-i-bought-a-firetruck-252516685
======
carlob
Is there some sort of crazy game of one-upmanship in the USA as to who can
drive the most impractical gas guzzler?

First it was stretch limos, then Hummers, then Hummer stretch limos. I wonder
if we're gonna see stretch limo fire trucks…

Edit (since I'm being downvoted): The story is cool, I just find the fact that
he's driving it daily to work completely retarded. What the hell I consider
driving a car to work to be hardly justifiable at all in our trade, but a 31
year old fire truck is sending a giant fuck you to anyone else trying to
reduce their carbon emissions.

~~~
tmoertel
> Is there some sort of crazy game of one-upmanship in the USA as to who can
> drive the most impractical gas guzzler?

Not at all. It’s just that in the USA, things are on a different scale, and it
makes sense to have larger vehicles.

For example, a couple of years ago on eBay I bought a second-hand carrier
battle group. Now, if you’re not from the USA, I can already hear you
objecting that “it’s impractical” to drive a small fleet of ocean-going
vessels on suburban streets, or that “it’s wasteful” to retain a staff of
thousands just to make the daily commute, or that it’s “not all that great,
environment-wise,” to knock over city blocks every time I make a Starbucks
run. And, in your country, I’d guess you’d have a point. But here in the USA,
once you factor the need to carry back all the stuff we buy at Costco, you can
see how the extra capacity of a carrier battle group would actually save you
trips and, in the long run, be more efficient than a smaller vehicle. So, once
you think it through, it actually makes sense.

It’s all a matter of scale.

~~~
THE_PUN_STOPS
I had a similar experience buying a MiG-17 as my primary vehicle to commute to
work 17 miles away. The DMV was initially not happy about my taking off and
landing on quiet highways, but luckily they became more understanding after
many letters. How much did you end up paying for your CVBG?

~~~
mortenjorck
Guys, I understand wanting to maximize your load-carrying efficiency, but
decommissioned naval vessels and military aircraft are not the way to do it.

For my commute, I chose rail instead – Budd Pioneer III-series rolling stock
go for surprisingly little on eBay these days, and at least where I live, it's
not terribly expensive to file the paperwork for a zoning easement to add a
700v third rail to a local stretch of freight rail (you can usually find
qualified installers on Craigslist).

These rolling stock are single-operator capable, so the staffing costs can be
quite low, and generally buying electric for a home rapid transit system is
far cheaper than buying fuel for a home naval vessel or home fighter jet,
especially if you can power down the transformers while you're at work.

~~~
moe
Sometimes I look at my bicycle and feel small and insignificant.

~~~
scrumper
Don't worry: I think the chap with the carrier battle group might be
overcompensating for something :)

------
ChuckMcM
I've always thought that an old firetruck would make a much better RV
conversion platform than an old bus. The reasoning is that a firetruck
(especially a pumper truck) has a suspension that is designed to carry much
more weight than a bus so you would not be as constrained in what you could
build on top of it.

Jay Leno did an excellent column about how amazing fire trucks are in terms of
durability.

The OP said that "fire trucks" weren't designed to drive on the highway at
highway speeds, which is a bit of an over generalization. The National Forest
Service for example has a number of trucks in California that are tasked with
driving up and down the state to fight wild fires. They not only drive on the
highway, they end up with a couple million miles on them before they are
retired.

In terms of practicality (there isn't much :-) but a ladder truck has the
ability to put you fairly high up somewhat "away" from the truck. (although an
inexperienced operator could easily tip over their truck if they weren't
careful) and they have those pretty awesome hydraulic stabilizing legs. I
sketched out briefly a sort of 'circus tent' RV where the tenting was
connected to a ladder truck's ladder which could then extend up and allow you
to stake out a tent around it. A number of issues there, from the outgassing
of the truck into your tent :-) and the ladder has a specified end load that
it can move around which is often less than 500 lbs so you end can't really
hoist canvas, you would get away with light nylon at best.

But in terms of interesting vehicles to own I agree with the author that there
is a certain cachet there :-)

~~~
fnordfnordfnord
My bus/RV conversion weighs about 18 tons. It has 6 ton front axle and in the
rear it has an 11 ton and an additional 6 or 8 ton axle. While a fire truck
has a ridiculously strong suspension, if you used that for an RV, you would
get a punishing amount of vibration and shaking. I guess you could ballast it,
but you'll waste a lot of fuel hauling ballast around, in addition to being
dangerously underpowered in some situations. I think that a fire truck is not
a good candidate for an RV conversion, unless you have a very specific
definition of "Recreation" in mind.

~~~
jychang
I remember a mythbusters episode where they stuck a half a ton of clay on a
regular car, and it didn't affect fuel economy. So there's that.

~~~
hfsktr
Rewatched and they did test with the full weight and as you said no
(noticeable) change with the added weight:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKxEkT2H8pI#t=322s>

I know that Mythbusters isn't generally hard science but you know.

~~~
jpitz
Obligatory: <http://xkcd.com/397/>

------
gph
That's pretty cool, as a toy. Too bad he doesn't seem to have any use for it
in that capacity.

Don't know if I can agree with him driving it on routine trips around town.
Not only because of the extra gas consumption and CO2, but it also takes up a
lot more room on the road, and it's a lot slower on acceleration wasting
everyone's time behind him. When someone has a purpose for having a huge truck
on the road you tolerate it, but if I found out I was stuck behind a slow
firetruck because some guy wanted to tickle his own fancy I'd be less
tolerant.

Yea, practicality isn't the end all of life, but don't be a dick.

Edit: Just wanted to add, it also puts a lot more wear on the roads especially
during spring when the ground frost is melting. You might be within the law to
drive it around, but your County Road Commission will not be pleased.

~~~
newbie12
I'd be pissed to be his neighbor. The firetruck spews dirty exhaust, is unsafe
if there are kids running around, and definitely is an eyesore. Even though
there's no HOA he is probably running afoul of city or county zoning
rules...you shouldn't be able to park large work trucks in residential
neighborhoods.

~~~
mikeash
What makes the truck more unsafe around children than e.g. a Ford Explorer or
similar?

~~~
SoftwareMaven
If nothing else, the fact that it would _attract_ children, whereas I've seen
few kids who are interested in playing on (versus _in_ ) the Ford Explorer.

It also would have far worse visibility than a Ford Explorer.

That said, I don't think it is an argument for whether he should be "allowed"
to have the truck or not. If there was evidence that people with large truck
always hurt kids, perhaps; but I don't think that evidence exists.

~~~
uogecko
These are good points - pollution, eye sore, blind spots, etc. I try to be
really careful with it and be aware of my surroundings as much as possible. As
far as the neighbors are concerned, I weighed purchasing the fire truck that
I'd always wanted against possibly pissing off the neighbors. The rest of that
story is history.

------
AlexMuir
I just bought a warehouse. Similar - I always wanted one. I'm going to turn it
into a house and put a roof garden on it and put a sweet garage in to fiddle
with cars and set up some office space and generally cause havoc in there.

I could drop dead tomorrow. It's nice to tick these ambitions off, although my
ambitions always seem to make it more likely that I _will_ drop dead tomorrow.

(It's in Manchester, UK if anyone wants to come and lug bricks around.)

~~~
shanelja
Hey Alex, before Christmas you offered me to spend Christmas day at your
place, while I turned it down for an offer from a friend I would love to repay
your kind offer with some free labor :)

I get paid on Thursday (relevant for bus costs), I live in Darwen and I'm free
next Sunday, so if you still want some help I would love to come down!

~~~
AlexMuir
Hi Shane, thanks, dropped you an email.

------
rdl
I still want an office in a light industrial area with a concrete
wall/bollards/ditch, and a roller gate, behind which I could park a 5 ton
truck and/or unimog or fire truck or something (so as to make it impossible to
drive through the gate). I had no idea fire trucks were even cheaper than old
2.5 or 5 ton military trucks.

~~~
unimpressive
Okay I'll bite. Why?

~~~
rdl
Onsite power, generators, parking for cars, a big tower for RF, satellite,
security, etc. A perfect office normally _and_ set up perfectly for disaster
response when the earthquake eventually hits. Being able to get $0.95/ft2 NNN
on Pioneer, and taking an entire building, so each employee has 500+ square
feet...

Imagine being the only place with real comms, security, and competent people
(i.e. non-government), just like my friend who stayed in his ISP in NOLA after
Katrina, or my office in Baghdad, or any other situation like that.

~~~
minimax
For anyone interested in the crazy live blog of the Katrina aftermath from the
guy holed up in his ISP in New Orleans, start here:
<http://interdictor.livejournal.com/2005/08/27/>

This is the guy you're talking about, right?

~~~
rdl
Yeah (interdictor or ikilled007 from lj)

------
smoyer
Someone got their childhood dream!

Mine was shattered when I found out that my dad didn't drive trains (An
electrical engineer is apparently not the same thing). Since then, I've ridden
on many trains, but I haven't driven one (yet).

~~~
ChuckMcM
We did this <http://wplives.org/ral.html> with our kids, yes they let you
actually drive the locomotive around, it was freakin' _awesome!_

~~~
smoyer
Wow! ... I live in central PA and we're blessed with quite a few "steam
excursions" and there's a local historical rail society too. Unfortunately,
none of them allow you to "drive the train".

~~~
timthorn
Come to England. Steam train driving sessions are a common way for the
restored branch lines to raise funds.

------
teuobk
Hooray for firetrucks! Back in undergrad, my fraternity owned two firetrucks,
and for about a year I was in charge of them. One was a 1940s ladder (with an
open cab and still-functioning ladder), and the other was a 1960s engine
(closed cab with still-working pumps). Tons of fun to drive around campus...
except for the time I clipped a parked car with the engine. Oops!

------
ben0x539
My nightmare scenario here would be being parked somewhere near where a fire
breaks out, and then having to tell people that no, I can't actually help
them.

~~~
uogecko
Or passing an emergency and getting flagged down. I'm hoping that nothing like
that ever happens.

------
nraynaud
This is completely immature and un-professional. I want one.

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geoka9
I wonder if the author realizes what a waste it is to drive a big car (let
alone a fire truck) to the grocery store.

We all love nature. We go out of our way to live in a place where it is more
spectacular. And yet we do our best to shit on it with the damn gas guzzlers.
Because, you know, it's fun!

~~~
fizx
The grocery store is perhaps a mile away, and he perhaps goes twice a week? So
that's 100 miles/year, two orders of magnitude away from the national average.
It's also substantially less co2 production than a flight from SFO to Hawaii.

~~~
revelation
Catalytic converters have a minutes long warm-up period beforce they approach
a narrow interpretation of "effectiveness".

Oh, and since we are talking about diesels, they produce diesel particulate
matter, ultrafine particles that can cause anything from cancer to nausea.
Even modern diesel engines can't completely filter them.

------
jdmitch
To be fair it's not really that much more impractical than driving a HUM-V
around in urban areas (which is frighteningly common), and definitely way
cooler!

Does it have a built-in telescoping ladder - that could actually be quite a
lot more useful than the firehose...

------
claudius
Don’t you guys have voluntary fire brigades or volunteer-driven agencies for
technical relief[0] over there? Sure, you can’t get _your_ groceries with one
of their trucks, but driving them is still pretty fun I was told. Plus you
don’t have to park them in your driveway.

[0] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technisches_Hilfswerk>

~~~
_delirium
Depends on where you live. In this guy's case, it looks like he lives in a
smallish Montana town, so yeah, it's pretty likely that his local fire
department is volunteer-run, and joining it would be an alternate way to get
this experience. Could be more commitment than he wants, though, since you
typically have to take training courses, not to mention actually commit to
responding to fires and other calls (a large percentage of fire-department
calls are medical responses rather than fires). That's a bit different than
just buying a truck. On the plus side, that could itself be interesting, and
would be the way to go if you wanted to really learn to operate firefighting
equipment.

Some numbers [1]: about 70% of U.S. firefighters are volunteer while 30% are
career jobs, but the vast majority of the volunteer firefighters (94% of them)
serve communities with under 25,000 people. Medium-sized towns and above
typically have a professionally staffed department.

[1] <http://www.nfpa.org/displayContent.asp?categoryID=955>

------
nateabele
It turns out there are no _actual_ aircraft carriers for sale on eBay. I am
disappoint.

~~~
LarryMade2
They just don't come up for sale too often...

<http://www.kungfo0.org/theweb/ebay/carrier.html>

Never know what you may find on ebay...

<http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-050902a.html>

~~~
uogecko
I didn't make that up! I saw one a couple years ago that was for sale. I
contacted the seller and asked if it came with a trailer. I just couldn't
resist. He never wrote back but it WAS for sale on eBay!

~~~
GFischer
rurounijones posted a link:

[https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/British_warship_HMS_Invincible_...](https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/British_warship_HMS_Invincible_put_up_for_auction_online)

------
trafficlight
I'm coming down to Missoula for Barcamp in April. I expect a ride on this
thing.

~~~
gaustin
A firetruck ride might convince me to make the trip over for Barcamp...

~~~
uogecko
When is Barcamp this year? I'll bring it :)

~~~
trafficlight
April 13th. <https://www.facebook.com/events/337629019680637/?ref=22>

------
sib
Danny Hillis, co-founder of Thinking Machines (maker of the Connection
Machine), bought and drove an old fire truck around Cambridge, MA, in the
1980's. I guess that was a lot harder than getting around Montana!

------
gavanwoolery
I grew up in the mountains outside of Napa. One of our neighbors was very
wealthy, and also paranoid about fires (brush fires are very dangerous in that
region). He owned a fire truck aside from many other vehicles. One day an
arsonist set fire to the mountainside, and he had a heart attack because of
it. A new person bought up his property, and I would visit their house
sometimes, and see that firetruck, not knowing the backstory. I just thought
that wealthy people owned firetrucks because it was cool. :)

~~~
fzzzy
Nice story. Must have been amazing to grow up there.

------
ja27
What a great thing this would be for someone that does kid's parties or
activities. I have a firefighter friend that borrowed a reserve engine for a
water-themed kid event we had. He had fun for 2 hours, spraying people 100'
away with water. For a while, everywhere I walked, I had a constant stream of
water hitting me on the top of my head.

~~~
jodrellblank
Someone else has had that idea; I had a quick look on eBay UK, and found this
party-limo-fire-engine business for sale:

[http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fire-Engine-Limo-business-for-
sale...](http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fire-Engine-Limo-business-for-
sale-/200908610237)

------
whalesalad
This is so awesome. I used to make my mom drag me around town to various fire
stations so that I could look at their goodies. I was obsessed with that stuff
as a kid.

Congrats on doing it! I myself have a bucket list item to grab an old Crown
bus (the ones that look like twinkies) and drive that beast all around the US.

------
unimpressive
Maybe I missed it, but how did he get it shipped to Montana?

~~~
RyJones
flatbed semi

~~~
shawn-butler
That must have cost more than the actual vehicle? The "sustainable" part of my
mind is competing with the "cool project" part.

I'm not sure which is going to win out yet. I wonder how competitive it would
have been to send it by rail?

~~~
RyJones
He does say it was more to ship than to purchase.

~~~
uogecko
I've been trying to forget about that part of this - the cost of shipping
SUCKED.

~~~
shawn-butler
Did you investigate rail shipping? I had a collectible truck shipped by rail
and it was much cheaper than OTR. It was some time ago though, but I imagine
for something as large as a fire engine it might have been very cost-
effective.

~~~
uogecko
Yep! I briefly looked into it but was told that it wouldn't be possible to get
it anywhere close to me by rail.

------
HeyLaughingBoy
Reminds me of the old bulldozer that I _very seriously_ thought of purchasing
(always wanted a dozer). But in my case it was only about 5 miles away in a
farmer's front yard with a "For Sale: $1,700" sign on it. Getting it home
probably wouldn't have cost more than about $300.

~~~
brc
A friend of mine bought an old excavator for $800. He spent about $1500 on
fixing up the hydraulics, and used it to landscape his property. It was very
rough but still went OK. When friends dropped around (like me) he would
happily let us dig massive holes and fill them in again. I had a very happy
afternoon digging and filling in, giggling like a kid in a sandpit.

He ended up selling it for a small profit to a guy down the road, and they
just drove it there - clank clank clank down the street. I was sad the day I
went around and the digger was gone.

------
sibman
A fire track? I always wanted to get a tank! Gabriel, thanks for this post. I
now believe that everything is possible.

I posted a link especially for you
<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5433711>

------
josefresco
Maybe I missed it but did he end up shipping it? He mentions it would cost
more than the truck itself, and mentioned his wife chiding him for not
researching this more but no actual description of _how_ he transported it.

~~~
iliis
He explained in a comment how he ended up transporting it with a flatbed
trailer:

 _"It was transported by a semi on a flatbed trailer from Ohio to Montana. I
looked into all kinds of less expensive alternatives including paying someone
to drive it, but I couldn't get anything reliable to pan out."_

[http://geckodesigns.kinja.com/it-was-transported-by-a-
semi-o...](http://geckodesigns.kinja.com/it-was-transported-by-a-semi-on-a-
flatbed-trailer-from-458587618)

------
Nursie
I'm not into firetrucks myself but something from this rings really true - if
you don't put aside time and (a little) money to do extraordinary things, your
life will be an endless procession of the mundane.

------
205guy
Waiting for the follow-up article: whether the pumps really work, how well
they work, whether it came with a firehouse (and if not, how much those
cost+shipping), and fun things you can do with a big jet of water.

Actually, I'd think you'd need a bit of training to operate a firehose
(assuming the sellers showed you how to operate all the buttons and levers).
But once you have all the safety aspects down, you can go out to a lake, set
up an intake hose and make a cool water display. Waiting for the pics.

~~~
FireBeyond
Fire hose isn't cheap, nor are nozzles (probably looking at a couple of
thousand dollars for a 100' of 1 3/4" hose and a variable nozzle.

Using the deck gun is another matter altogether, and is not something he's
likely to be able to do other than emptying a swimming pool:

Most combination nozzles on a deck gun are designed to control flow rate
between 750gpm and 1250gpm at 80 psi.

A Pierce Arrow typically has a 750 gallon tank, so you have around a minute
run time on the deck gun before its empty (and a fire engine pump is not
something you want running dry).

You can set up hard suction (to draw from a non-pressurized source), but its
debatable a) whether you can get sufficient flow at all from the vacuum alone,
let alone b) while filtering the water sufficiently (because stones, mud,
silt, trash, fish don't go well through a fire engine pump) at a rate to run
the deck gun.

Sadly, it's not likely to happen without being hooked into a hydrant. You
might be able to run a handline or two, but that's about it.

------
baby
I want a plane.

~~~
UnoriginalGuy
Something tells me that if you got yourself a plane and then posted about it
here, you'd get treated a lot more nicely than the OP.

The world has become a cynical and mean place. The guy bought a freaking
working fire engine, and all people can do is whine endlessly about how
impractical and wasteful it is...

But yet these same people wouldn't say the same about an aircraft, race car,
or similar. Even though those are likely MORE expensive and equally as
wasteful fuel wise.

Whatever, you get your plane! And you have fun with it. Ignore all these
haters and cynics.

~~~
dsfasfasf
I want a jet fighter. I wonder if I could get a relatively new one. All
weapons would have to be removed of course. It would be the sports car of the
air. I would need to get a billion dollars first though so that I could afford
top notch maintenance. This would be my expensive toy. Instead of a yacht the
new "in" thing could be buying a sport jet.

In reality, I like the idea more then the reality of it. If I really had a
billion dollars I would simply buy a porsche and use all my free time to do
research.

~~~
defrndr
A billion dollars for a fighter plane. Good lord, this actually brings into
context how fucking rich Bill Gates is. This and the fact that he can give
every single person on Earth a billion dollars each and still be among the
richest people on the planet.

~~~
hjalle
wtf happened to the math here?

------
mgcross
I still find myself staring at firetrucks. Kind of like muscle cars. I love
the chunky, iconic design, the chrome, the impracticality and noise.

------
jhawk28
I understand exactly where he is coming from. One of my fathers cousin decided
the farm needed a firetruck and decided to pick up two. It was the first on
the scene when one of our barns burnt down. Pumps didn't work so great and did
a little spurt by the time the fire department came. Great memories.

------
ImprovedSilence
I always wanted a school bus. Something to build into an rv for far away
hunting trips and weekend tailgate extravaganzas. I did some searching, and
running buses are suprisingly cheap. Someday when I have a place to put it,
I'm going to jump all over that.

------
prawn
Jacuzzi/spa in place of the water tank(s)? Are they set up so that would be
possible?

------
pmorici
"Even though it's 31 years old and technically qualifies as an antique"

What makes something technically and antique? I was under the impression that
50+ years was measure of antiqueness but I can't remember why I think that.

~~~
bcl
Depends on the state you live in. In Montana it qualifies for special license
plates when a vehicle is 30 years old.

<https://doj.mt.gov/driving/license-plates/#antiqueplates>

Although by driving it to work he probably violates the 'general
transportation' provision.

~~~
uogecko
The problem with antique registration in Montana (and this wasn't made clear
on the state website) is that you can only drive an antique to and from
parades and/or car shows. I had originally planned to register it with antique
plates because it's more affordable than a standard registration. That was a
deal breaker though.

------
bredren
Does anyone remember the two-seater firetruck arcade game? That thing ruled.

edit: this! <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_Truck_(video_game)>

~~~
fudged71
No, but firetrucks in GTA were always a fun ride.

------
EGreg
My favorite word starts with an f and ends in a uck. It is indeed firetruck.

------
mst3kzz
Relevant Kids in the Hall sketch - "Quarter Life Crisis":
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiESfUGC_Pw>

------
delinquentme
"A total of $3,600 which also happened to be the hard limit my wife had
imposed on this particular invaluable transaction." _cough_

------
shurcooL
Isn't $3600 kinda ridiculously inexpensive given that a Civic costs over $15k?
What's the insurance and mileage on that thing like?

~~~
Goopplesoft
Article says the milage is 47k, crazy low for its age.

~~~
fnordfnordfnord
Engine hours is where it's at. I bet the engine has been rebuilt several
times.

------
Axsuul
Would make a good movie title (We Bought a Zoo)

------
meisterbrendan
so this is my favorite thing, ever.

------
imran
so you see we can do anything we want to ! Its much more related to the "out
of the box thinking". If you can't do things you were planning since childhood
how are you supposed to be creative and pursue your dreams let alone Change
The World!

------
timjahn
This is awesome! My kid would be ecstatic if we drove a firetruck to the
grocery store.

------
chevas
How many people looked up "aircraft carrier" sales on ebay after reading this
article?

~~~
rurounijones
Aircraft carrier on Ebay you say?

[https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/British_warship_HMS_Invincible_...](https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/British_warship_HMS_Invincible_put_up_for_auction_online)

The British MOD (Ministry of Defence) has an auction site for surplus
equipment from shows, clothes and jeeps up to (occasionally) aircraft
carriers.

------
ck2
And people think the homeless guy on the corner has mental health issues...

------
ibudiallo
You inspired me, i will follow my dreams and nothing will stop me.

Thank you so much.

------
bryanwbh
A great way to express the term "Always remember to pursue your dream."

Awesome!

------
lignuist
You could offer rainmaking as a service during dry summers.

------
jarpleadmin
how does voting work

------
herpaderp
WHAT AN AMAZING STORY ABOUT HACKING!

Seriously, HN needs to see if there is a service out there that spams these
type of sites with these horribly uninteresting
reddit/digg/boingboing/hurrderp stories.

~~~
randomchars
> horribly uninteresting

That's _your_ opinion. And apparently the community doesn't agree with you.

