
Black Arrow - x43b
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Arrow
======
pm90
Hmm, I never thought the close military relationship between the US and UK
would be anything but beneficial for the UK, but this shows a pitfall of that
kind of thinking...since its "cheaper" just to purchase from the US, the UK
forfeits the development of its own MIC.

I think I remember reading somewhere that the continuous wars between the UK
and the other European powers was one of the main reasons for the demand that
led to the industrial revolution. If that's true, then what to make of this
situation?

~~~
cstross
_Hmm, I never thought the close military relationship between the US and UK
would be anything but beneficial for the UK_

It was actually extremely toxic for UK-based development of some items. For
example, Robert McNamara in the mid-1960s was keen to sell the F-111 to
Australia and the UK -- so keen that he leaned _hard_ on the Wilson government
to cancel the competing TSR-2 low-level supersonic bomber:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAC_TSR-2](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAC_TSR-2)

Again, the USAF's cancellation of the GAM-87 Skybolt air-launched IRBM really
screwed with the UK's nuclear delivery plans in the 1960s:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAM-87_Skybolt](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAM-87_Skybolt)

And for a modern reprise, look at the premature-ish retirement of the UK
Harrier fleet and the ongoing headache over the QE class supercarriers and the
F-35B the UK is planning to buy to fly off them. (Note that early iterations
of the Eurofighter Typhoon design spec in the 1980s and early 1990s included
strengthened landing gear and an arrester hook for carrier ops -- when France
dropped out and went alone on the Dassault Rafale, that's what they were
after).

Having a "close military relationship" with a larger power means that your
own, smaller military ends up as the tail being wagged by the dog.

~~~
delibes
Also the Lockheed bribery:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_bribery_scandals](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_bribery_scandals)

Which damaged plenty of European aerospace companies like Sauders-Roe (who
developed the Black Knight and other UK rockets).

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saunders-
Roe_SR.177#Cancellatio...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saunders-
Roe_SR.177#Cancellation)

------
pjc50
See also
[http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zircon_(satellite)](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zircon_\(satellite\))

There's a small satellite industry in the UK, which seems to be thriving
despite official neglect.

UK procurement is just too small-minded and penny-pinching to do these kind of
projects.

~~~
cstross
There is a _large, and rapidly growing_ satellite industry in the UK. No
thanks to any British government prior to roughly 1997, which were all
uniformly hostile to space research/development, seeing it as a profitless
vacuum. Thatcher, in particular, thought it was pointless and cancelled
virtually everything that crossed her desk except for military spy/comsat
proposals -- like Zircon. (In the late 90s the civil space industry finally
became marginally profitable and attitudes changed: today the UK even has a
home-grown space industry.)

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Theodores
It is amazing what ambition post WW2 Britain had for Cold War hardware.
Despite the country having been bombed to bits (albeit not quite on
Tokyo/Hiroshima/Dresden/etc. scale) there were many companies in the aerospace
sector, plus a 'space program' of military ambitions only, that Concorde
thing, not to mention various flavours of atom bomb. Incredible! Nowadays
there is no huge fleet in the skies, at sea or on land. Right now there isn't
even an aircraft carrier with actual planes. Despite that the cost of military
hardware is forever going skyward with planes costing $100 million dollars a
piece (you could buy and run an F1 team on less).

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DominikD
Not very constructive but am I the only one who thinks that it looks like a
giant lipstick?

------
ghostberry
Hopefully this
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skylon](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skylon)

will put us back in the space race.

