
Krispy Kreme mule will be allowed to continue operating - gshakir
https://www.facebook.com/343592209610103/posts/449232749046048
======
manigandham
He already posted an update that he's allowed to continue and the company is
supporting him:
[https://www.facebook.com/KrispyKremeRunMinnesota/posts/44923...](https://www.facebook.com/KrispyKremeRunMinnesota/posts/449232749046048)

" _Hi everyone, here is the next important update! I am pumped to announce
that I will be able to continue the business soon, and have the support of
Krispy Kreme. They want to ensure I become an independent operator and make
sure the brand is represented well. On both ends, there are things that are
being worked on right now to achieve that as this is being made as a special
exception. But nonetheless, we can get started up again soon once certain
things are in place._ "

Seems like confirmation that this was most likely about trademarks and
representation.

~~~
twic
It's great HN fun to start by reading this comment, then go on to read
patio11's comment explaining why this is impossible. Life comes at you fast!

~~~
patio11
I didn't say it was impossible; I said that there was regulatory risk in doing
it the way he was doing it. Reading his comment here does not decrease my
confidence that I was correct. Is your model that no paperwork (reps &
warranties, transfer of liability, etc) is getting signed between him and
Krispy Kreme as a result of this turn of events? If so, I bet your model is
wrong.

There's _a playbook_.

------
inportb
Based on his Facebook page[1], it seems he's going to be an authorized
reseller soon.

> Hi everyone, here is the next important update! I am pumped to announce that
> I will be able to continue the business soon, and have the support of Krispy
> Kreme. They want to ensure I become an independent operator and make sure
> the brand is represented well. On both ends, there are things that are being
> worked on right now to achieve that as this is being made as a special
> exception. But nonetheless, we can get started up again soon once certain
> things are in place.

> This being said, I am definitely going to need a bigger vehicle with how
> much this has grown over the past few days. I know a couple of you have
> asked about a GoFundMe. I decided to create one because I won't be able to
> cover the costs on my own I realize. Any donation would mean the world to
> me, no matter how small. Maybe I can decal it with some donut stickers! I am
> happy that things turned out positive, and this can continue to strive and
> grow over the next couple of years. I've said it before, and I will say it
> again. Thank you from the bottom of my heart to everyone that has supported
> me on this journey.

[1]:
[https://www.facebook.com/pg/KrispyKremeRunMinnesota/posts/](https://www.facebook.com/pg/KrispyKremeRunMinnesota/posts/)

~~~
jacobwilliamroy
How do you think he'll do his taxes? Do you think he'll hire someone? Or maybe
he has a CPA in his family?

~~~
kevinthew
Not sure if serious but he's an accounting major. Guessing he has it covered.

~~~
jacobwilliamroy
Cool. I hope he has everything covered, seeing as how he's making money now.

I hope everything works out for donut man.

------
travisgriggs
I have mixed feelings about this.

I commented on the previous post that broke this story, pointing out just how
many youth fund raising activities had been doing exactly this for ever. And I
really admired the guy and his repeated efforts to make some money for school.
This is the classical lemonade stand incarnate. He warmed my heart; big
business KK pissed me off.

Day two rolls around. Things are proceeding. An agreement has been struck, and
he's soliciting the equivalent of seed money to meet the new anticipated
demand. Whereas yesterday I could have seen some additional students using
their small cars to also deliver donuts if a) they're willing to put in the
effort and b) there's enough demand, today that seems less likely. The
sophomore across campus now has to compete against the capital gifted to this
guy as well as his "special arrangement" with KK. So, some form of "big
business" wins again.

------
poulsbohemian
I don't see how this is actually any different than any of the many doughnut
(KK specifically) fundraisers around the country where groups (sports, music,
etc) either pre-order or buy large quantities to resell. Its exactly the same
model, other than that this guy was doing it repeatedly and KK wasn't getting
to set the terms.

~~~
kd5bjo
If I had to guess, this is a trademark issue. First sale doctrine only gives
him the right to sell legitimately-marked products, but not to use the Krispy
Kreme marks in advertising. His FB page was called “Krispy Kreme Run
Minnesota”, which implies an endorsement that doesn’t exist.

~~~
jnwatson
Anybody that has an ounce of sense understands this is not endorsed by the
brand.

~~~
lotsofpulp
That argument may not hold up in a court if Krispy Kreme had to explain why it
didn't do anything to prevent known misuse of its trademark.

------
deogeo
Silly consumer - free trade is only for corporations!

------
rolph
as soon as he buys them he can do whatever he wants, he just cant imply that
he works for krispy kreme or is part of the distribution network. if KK doesnt
want to sell in an area that wants KKs thats thier problem. people are allowed
to grocery shop by proxy and operate delivery services of many types. it would
probably help his case if he was taking delivery orders for other things such
as bottled water, or energy drinks, and jack links as well.

~~~
eloff
They will probably enforce it by preventing the franchise owner selling to
him. Otherwise, you're right, they can't do anything about it - not that
that's always enough to stop them from strong arming a person with their
lawyers.

~~~
netsharc
If they ban him, he'd need to find, say, 10 buyers to act as middlemen between
him and KK. But it would come at a significant cost to his business...

KK can also just be real dicks and tell the cops about him, and bribe them
with, ha, donuts.

~~~
skinnymuch
This didn’t work out for
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Joe's](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Joe's)
vs Trader Joe’s who also had what seems to be a legal case overwhelmingly on
his side.

------
schoen
Before Pollo Campero opened in San Francisco, there were people (1) driving
vans of take-out from Los Angeles, and (2) flying it over on an airplane from
Guatemala.

[https://web.archive.org/web/20110603025320/http://blogs.sfwe...](https://web.archive.org/web/20110603025320/http://blogs.sfweekly.com/foodie/2010/02/is_there_an_sf_underground_net.php)

[https://archives.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2011/02/14/mission-i...](https://archives.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2011/02/14/mission-
importers-not-playing-chicken-with-pollo-campero)

------
alaskamiller
New is everything old.

Back in 2015 a little burger shop sues a little known company for ferrying
burgers across the Stanford campus.

[https://www.mercurynews.com/2015/11/12/in-n-out-burger-
sues-...](https://www.mercurynews.com/2015/11/12/in-n-out-burger-sues-palo-
alto-delivery-startup-doordash/)

~~~
masonic
It was "ferrying" them from _well off-campus_ (Mountain View, 101 and
Rengstorff).

The suit settlement did shut down Doordash from gray-marketing In n Out.

------
jerriep
This reminds me of domestic flights in Thailand from Bangkok to Chiang Mai
where it is common to see Krispy Kreme mules.

There are no Krispy Kreme stores in Chiang Mai but the people in Chiang Mai
seems to prefer it over other Doughnut shops in the city. So, when locals fly
up from Bangkok to Chiang Mai it is fairly common for them to take up a few
boxes of Krispy Kreme for their friends and family.

------
turc1656
I wonder what was contained in that cease and desist? How could he have been
doing anything that could warrant a civil suit from the company? Sure, he
doesn't have a license to be a food seller, but that's a legal issue with the
local municipality. I wonder what they claimed their "damage" to be?

------
fatnoah
This story strikes very close to home. My first capitalist adventure involved
running donuts to my middle, and later, high schools. I used to periodically
stop on the way to school to grab a donut and noticed that buying 6 donuts at
once cost the same as buying 5 individually. So, I purchased 6 every morning
and sold the other 5 at the individual price. By the time I got to high
school, I was moving 4-6 dozen donuts a day, and had "employees" who handled
deliveries and collections and were paid in donuts.

------
vxNsr
There was a planet money story about a guy in canada who would buy up huge
quantities of trader joes stuff and sell it at a significant markup. he had to
evade trader joes' managers who were told the guy was a persona-non-grata and
did a lot to keep him out. eventually he had to close up shop (and he did have
a real physical location) as it became too difficult to stay open.

~~~
skinnymuch
He had to close because even though the legal rulings were for him. Trader
Joe’s kept appealing and he couldn’t keep up with the finances for defending
what had become bullying.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Joe's](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Joe's)

------
lr
Go to UCLA in the morning and take Election Walk, and you will find 10+
different student groups reselling KKs, five days a week!

------
jbob2000
The practice that this student engaged in is called “arbitrage” - taking a
thing that is undervalued and finding its true value.

Kristy Kreme undervalued their product, which made it ripe for arbitrage. If
not this student, it would have been Uber Eats or some other delivery service.

~~~
nomel
Is it arbitrage? The value he's adding is convenience, which is what people
are paying extra for. I don't think the donuts sitting behind the counter at
Krispy Kreme are undervalued. They have a huge inconvenience cost built into
their location.

~~~
jbob2000
My comment was a bit wrong, I should have said that he found value in another
market; krispy kreme was serving one market, where the donuts were valued at
X. But this guy found the student market, where donuts were valued at x+n.

------
Overtonwindow
Not gonna happen. The first sale doctrine gives him the right to resale all he
wants.

------
RenRav
Isn't this just reselling? There are plenty of small and large businesses that
do this exclusively.

I think maybe he was just using the Krispy Kreme branding or trademarks.

------
mrfusion
I wonder how it is that that level of demand can’t support having stores in
the area?

~~~
mark-r
It's a novelty product. Once the novelty wears off, there's nothing special
about them to make them any more desirable than any other doughnut. The Twin
Cities has plenty of other doughnut outlets, many of them locally owned and
run bakeries.

------
reportgunner
Isn't the takeout a spinoff of The Onion ?

------
al_be_back
that's an impressive hack - an entrepreneurial trait indeed.

------
mindcrime
It never ceases to amaze one just how tone-deaf big companies can be. Smart
managers at Krispy-Kreme would have been all over this: looking to include
this guy in ads, touting the way Krispy Kreme is helping one hard working
student pay for college, living the American Dream, etc., etc. The good-will
alone would have been something you couldn't buy if you tried.

Instead, they totally screwed the pooch and hurt their brand, their customers,
and the hard working college kid aspiring for the American Dream. Way to go,
Krispy Kreme.

~~~
joezydeco
You know normally I would agree with this sentiment, but we're talking about
_food that 's being shipped in unsealed boxes_.

I can totally see KK's side of this problem. It's sad to say in the scope of
modern society, but how can you trust that this kid is actually selling you
legitimate (and, without getting off track, _unadulterated_ ) Krispy Kreme
donuts when he pulls up in your town?

What damage would this do to the brand if the person turned out to be a bad
actor? If you were the CEO of Krispy Kreme, would you err on the side of
caution and stop something before it gets out of hand?

A good friend of mine is a restaurant owner and he has a similar gripe about
GrubHub and delivery services of this ilk. They bring the food cold, late, and
mangled and now the restaurant's reputation is damaged instead of blaming
GrubHub for how it was treated in transit.

~~~
mindcrime
_What damage would this do to the brand if the person turned out to be a bad
actor? If you were the CEO of Krispy Kreme, would you err on the side of
caution and stop something before it gets out of hand?_

Fair point, but people already trust strangers to deliver their food by using
GrubHub, Postmates, Uber Eats, etc.

Anyway, maybe the "right thing to do" for KK was not to just turn a blind eye
and ignore the whole thing, but one can't help but suspect that they could
have found a better way to deal with this, that would have been more of a
"win-win". Worst case, buy the kid off behind the scenes, pay him to appear in
an ad or two, and then quietly shut down his service. Surely they could have
some up with something that didn't portray this "$BIGCORP uses it's army of
lawyers to smash the little guy" pattern...

~~~
joezydeco
To me, using the kid in any kind of publicity is basically hanging a banner
that says "you too can make money cross-shipping our product!", which is
probably not what KK corporate wants. In my view using the big hammer was
necessary to stop it before it got out of control.

Sure, it's brand-damaging as well, but we all have short memories these days
when it comes to the Global TCP/IP Outrage Generator.

It probably would piss off the franchisees too. They're the ones that paid big
money for exclusive sales territories and (contractually) don't want those
boundaries crossed by others.

~~~
toast0
As of now, there are no franchised stores in the area. A local store would
sell for a non-inflated price and have a better product (Krispy Kreme donuts
are generally terrible, but if you get them fresh off the line, they're kind
of okay).

~~~
Sohcahtoa82
> Krispy Kreme donuts are generally terrible

IMO, their classic glazed rings are the best glazed rings you can get
anywhere.

All their other options are garbage. The creme they use in their cream filled
donuts is disgusting.

~~~
toast0
Why would you get a glazed ring when you have so many better options at ye
olde neighborhood donut shoppe. Old fashioned, twisted, jelly filled, bear
claw, etc etc. Yum.

~~~
gremlinsinc
I'm from Dayton, OH.. in Dayton there's Stan's donut a hole in the wall and
Bill's donut a not-so-hole-but-locally-owned-24-hour-shop that have the best
donuts ever.

I can't stand KK's, Tim Horton's, or Grocery store donuts. They're all
horrible. I'm in utah now, and around 2200/state street in Salt lake has an
amazing donut shop as well...

All hole in the walls, mom/pop shops. Corporations make horrible donuts.
period.

~~~
trhway
don't fight, poor dwellers of US :) The donuts here, be it KK, Dunkin or
whatever, is just a poor version of Eastern European "ponchik/pyshka"
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C4%85czki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C4%85czki)

"pączki are made from especially rich dough containing eggs, fats, sugar,
yeast and sometimes milk.

...

The traditional reason for making pączki was to use up all the lard, sugar,
eggs and fruit in the house, because their consumption was forbidden by
Christian fasting practices during the season of Lent. "

------
sfgweilr4f
Someone at Krispy Kreme should be fired. Better business all around would have
been to come up with some happy way to bring this guy in somehow. Publicity
alone would have been ridiculously profitable: ie Free. Offer him a delivery
franchise or whatever. Krispy Kreme actually said No to a delivery model that
only needed tuning and some simple improvements. He essentially did a
territory feasibility assessment for them. For free.

As a non-customer I now just think of Krispy Kreme as jerks. And the kind of
business people who hate making money.

~~~
kkleindev
I think there should be other, better ways of rectification than firing
someone.

~~~
philpem
Sometimes removing the problem is the best solution.

------
samtrack2019
as someone from south Europe, I am amazed for the love of donuts they have in
the U.S.A, how can you be craving so much to pay twice for donuts? they are
mostly pure sugars sweets isnt it ?

~~~
spuz
Have you tried Krispy Kremes? I can see why they are worth paying double for
some folks.

~~~
lukebitts
I've been to the US once and the only thing I miss is Krispy Kremes. I haven't
found a single other doughnut that is as good as theirs.

