

This hit hard: The one sentence that will convince you to return/skip the iPad - achille

"I know it's awesome, but the iPad is inherently device meant for consuming, not producing. By getting the iPad you'll spend more time consuming and less time producing."<p>This hit me hard. I met my friend over beers yesterday. Ever since he said this, it clicked, and I've been afraid to use the iPad. I'm considering returning it.<p>I thought back: Shit, he's right. While I've put some books &#38; iTunesU videos, I've barely done anything useful with it.<p>What does YC think? Obviously this clicks more for YC folks than the average consumer.<p>Edit: Of course you <i>can</i> use it for useful things. I’m saying my personal usage so far has been anything but productive. Having the iPad on and NOT using it to browse the web/flipboard/etc is incredibly hard.  Something even PG struggles with: www.paulgraham.com/distraction.html
======
cheald
I've been echoing this for a while. The iPad is a _stellar_ content
consumption device. If you just want to read email and watch YouTube and see
pictures of the grandkids, the iPad is a fully-functional computing device,
insofar as you need one.

It is a truly abysmal creation device, though. Typing on it is slower than on
a physical keyboard. You can't switch between apps very easily, so doing
anything where you'd have to reference or copy information is greatly
hindered. If you want to use "non-visible" keystrokes (like control or
win/cmd), it's a non-starter. The OS is heavily locked down and so divorced
from the concept of "processes" and "files" that it is designed to not simply
hide the internals, but to actively deny that they exist. While it's possible
to create with it, it's absolutely the wrong tool for it. The hacker ethos is
adamant about using the right tools for the job. Using the iPad as a creation
platform (with, perhaps, the sole exception of a finger-painting device) is
akin to using a pair of scissors like a bandsaw. You can get it done, maybe,
after a lot of work and a lot of pain, but it's the wrong tool for the job.

I really appreciate how usable the iPad is as a device for people who simply
want to consume content. But, I think that to treat it as the "next generation
of computing" (see also: the "post-PC era") does a tremendous disservice to
our industry, our children, and our society as a whole. Breeding out curiosity
and penalizing the tinkerer is not a good thing. I am a programmer because my
computer is my artist's canvas - code is the medium with which I paint. It is
a deeply creative, deeply engaging, deeply expressive device for me. The iPad
is not - and by design, cannot be.

It's a fantastic device for consuming content, but if you're going to sign up
with the iPad, you're going to have to sign up to the consumer-oriented
culture it is infused with. That'll be $0.99. Please don't peek behind the
curtain.

Edit: Because I'm sure it'll be brought up, don't confuse creating content
_for_ the iPad (with your full-fledged Mac computer) with creating content
_on_ the iPad. The former is, of course, happening all the time, and that's
great. But unless you're buying the device plus the $99 developer's license to
be able to program it, you're not buying a "production" device.

~~~
j_baker
_Because I'm sure it'll be brought up, don't confuse creating content for the
iPad (with your full-fledged Mac computer) with creating content on the iPad.
The former is, of course, happening all the time, and that's great. But unless
you're buying the device plus the $99 developer's license to be able to
program it, you're not buying a "production" device._

This distinction is entirely useless. Who cares if something is produced _for_
the iPad or not? The iPad is a distribution channel for producers. People can
only consume what's been produced, right? Producing content for the iPad is
producing content nonetheless.

------
davidu
That we have become a consumer culture concerns me greatly.

That said, if people switch from consuming via TV which is entirely one-way,
and switch to a consumption medium like the iPad that is two-way, that's a
revolution.

The iPad is a revolution, and as entrepreneurs and developers, we should be
aware of how it's changing the world around us.

But it's not a replacement for building, hacking, making and tinkering, but
chances are, you aren't prone to forgetting that since you're reading this
website.

~~~
notJim
> That we have become a consumer culture concerns me greatly.

I'm really skeptical that this is actually true. The hardware to produce
things has gotten cheaper (computers, video/sound equipment), the knowledge is
more easily and readily disseminated (tutorials online, videos on youtube,
forums for specialized interests), and it's become easier to share things
(uploading to vimeo and then posting to reddit.) It seems to me like it's even
easier to “produce” than ever before, and that more people are doing it.

~~~
jeremyflores
The iPad hardware itself speaks toward a consumer culture. We have a cultural
obsolescence for their older devices: who even talks about iPad 1 or iPad 2
nowadays when there is iPad 3?

~~~
maguay
I'm still rather pleased with my iPad 1, and use it as my on-the-go computer
for trips about once a month. And that's for real work: writing and editing
articles, managing a team, and doing app support and random email. And yup, an
iPad 1.

------
ertdfgcb
Consumption is not useless. Yes, the iPad is purely for consumption, but if
that consumption improves you as a person/programmer/whatever, it is not
useless. You state that "by getting the iPad, you'll spend more time consuming
and less time producing", but I think that's a fallacy, if you remember that
iPad time is consumption time, it can be very valuable. It is also important
to remember that much of that time may be time that you never would have spent
producing anyway (lying in bed, riding the bus, whatever). If you think your
iPad is destroying your productivity, then sure, return it, but remember that
the iPad is very good for consuming things, and in order to produce, you must
consume. Don't discount the role consumption has in production (great artists
steal and all that).

~~~
kisom
I use my iPad heavily for consuming (books, movies, etc...) include watching
videos for the Stanford classes I'm doing. I use my laptop to create. The two
work harmoniously - I can consume (i.e. I have a copy of The C Programming
language on the iPad) while creating to feed the cycle. Works well for me.

------
fufulabs
\---bluetooth keyboard > Pages, email, blogging.

\---Garageband > music

\---Camera > Photos, video, photo editing

\---Painting apps > art, sketches, wireframing

\---Internet > anything

Super turbo false.

~~~
lucb1e
You can hardly write on the thing, just like with other mobile devices.
Sketching or making notes would be the only option. Sure, technically you can
write novel after novel on it. It just doesn't write nicely.

~~~
Jacked
Hence the bluetooth keyboard as the first thing on his list ;)

~~~
lucb1e
Then, why don't you just get a laptop? Or slate?

------
glenra
GarageBand for the iPad has some features as-yet unmatched on the Mac, so it's
helped me create songs. (In fact, that was why I bought it). You can also use
it to read documentation while programming on your main mac; you can even use
it as a second monitor just to have more screen real estate on your mac. There
are decent apps for writing and editing photos and painting and many other
creative projects. I think the idea that it's "for consumption" is just
lazy/silly thinking. If you want to create on it, buy apps used to create
stuff, or write your own apps.

------
nakkiel
Well, your friend got that right but why didn't you get that before?

When I bought my Xoom tablet, I had in mind two things:

a. it would do a great remote control device for a headless and home-made
music player (plugged to a decent sound-system),

b. I need to rest.

While a. was definitely the fun factor for me, b. was a way for me to stop
bringing work home so easily. With a tablet, you can consume most of the stuff
you would with a laptop but as you can't produce, you're not tempted to start
working on cool-new-interesting-project-2315.

Mixed results so far as I still often bring my laptop home from work. Also, a.
didn't go that far (because of b. ? [1]).

[1] Ah well, contradictions.

------
guywithabike
The problem isn't the iPad, the problem is probably you. There's nothing
stopping you from "creating" with an iPad.

~~~
poppysan
I'd be interested in hearing what if anything current iPad owners produce.

~~~
qckbrnfx
I do some programming on mine by SSHing into my main machine via Prompt. And I
do some writing on it, too. A Bluetooth keyboard makes these activities just
as easy as on a full fledged computer and it is nice to be able to roll over
in bed and turn on the iPad when inspiration strikes.

~~~
poppysan
Makes a lot of sense... could see that being convenient!

------
lpnotes
I would agree -- except for the fact that as a musician, I've benefited
tremendously from the recording apps that have allowed me to produce
multitrack songs, record scenery as background for my videos, and edit it all
together in iMovie (a program that I don't have access to on a PC).

I will need to get rid of that netflix app, though. ;)

------
notJim
I do a lot of consuming: I watch a few TV shows, read Hacker News, proggit,
and read books.

Are you really advocating that we shouldn't consume anything at all?

To me, the reason I'm considering returning the iPad is that it's nothing more
than a luxury computing device. Sure, it's kind of convenient in some ways
(small and light), but in other ways, it's totally a drag (iOS is
underwhelming, the lack of keyboard.) I like reading on it a lot, but then,
the stuff I read on it is really just websites, and I don't feel like I need a
dedicated device for that.

------
njharman
It is far from consumption only. I do; Tons of email, all my note taking, use
story boarding and notecard apps to outline projects, banking and investment,
participating in online forums aka & reddit

Also, consumption is great. If you consume good things. Lately been watching
pycon videos, reading hn, learning chef, aws research, and wiki tangents on
sub atomic particles and german east Africa in wwi.

iPad fucking rocks. Everyone should have a tablet of some sort.

------
coryl
Well you should probably define what you mean by "producing". What do you
expect to be able to produce? More code work? Art work? Photography? Blog
posts and articles?

Without an iPad, I wouldn't understand touch interface design and UX. I
probably wouldn't have read Steve Jobs biography, or Mark Cuban's ebook. But I
did, and they inspired me to create. I successfully learned to program through
Xcode and my iPad, because making something that you can touch right before
your eyes is amazingly delightful and encouraging. Sometimes I read fantastic
articles on Flipboard, or HN, and I get great ideas. Sometimes the first thing
I do in the morning is check my app sales from the day before while in bed. I
look at my sales graph and rankings. Regardless of whether the number is good
or bad, my brain starts firing off on how I can do better, or why such and
such is happening.

All these things inherently require me to consume, but lead to some form of
productivity. Most HN'ers don't channel surf or watch TV for the sake of
killing time. We're productivity freaks, so we only watch things we're really
interested in, or things we think we can learn from. Consumption on the iPad
seems to be exactly the same.

------
amayne
I wrote my first novel on my iPad. Got a lit agent a few months later from it.

The consumption thing is bogus.

~~~
syaz1
> I wrote my first novel on my iPad.

But why? Wouldn't it be much more convenient to write on a laptop/PC with
proper tools? How does one write more than a few sentences on an iPad? Don't
tell me STT...

~~~
manicdee
You get an editor app, and you start typing.

There are apps which specialise in writing novels: they have special sections
for writing character descriptions, plot ideas, etc.

A PC is convenient if you have the time to sit down in front of it. An iPad is
great when you want to write on the bus or train, where a laptop is
inconvenient and a PC is flat out impossible.

------
WiseWeasel
You can have both an iPad for sit-back consumption and a computer for
productive creation. As a consumption device, the iPad is tough to beat, for
those who don't have to be producing output at every waking moment. Sometimes,
you want to ingest information, and an iPad is a very effective way to do
that.

------
6ren
The "new iPad" keynote highlighted that you could shoot, edit, view and upload
HD movies, explicitly saying that this countered the conception of the iPad as
for consuming. That is, provided you're producing movies (or probably other
multimedia). But maybe one day for programming too:

    
    
      Programmers will stop editing character arrays, realizing that character arrays are
      not a convenient representation of code (neither for computers nor for humans).
      Fueled by touchscreens."
    

<http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4487#comment-69882>

------
manicdee
I carrying all my reference books, component data sheets and circuit
schematics on the iPad. I carry pictures, presentations, citation lists,
bibliographies, research notes, and even program a little Perl or Python on
the side.

Am I a consumer? Is the iPad bad for me because it only allows me to "consume"
my data sheets? Have you thought about replacing "consume" with other verbs
such as "read," "listen," or "watch"? Books are not consumed. They are read.
When you have read a book, it is still there, waiting to be read again. People
who talk about "consuming" books are idiots: people who are wilfully ignorant
despite the wealth of information available to counter their opinion. Your
friend is an idiot.

The idea that the iPad is a consumption only device is nonsense:
[http://marklindner.info/blog/2010/03/28/is-the-ipad-a-
consum...](http://marklindner.info/blog/2010/03/28/is-the-ipad-a-consumption-
only-device/)

Note the date on that blog post: this argument has been done already, and is
at least two years old.

Is it wrong to buy books because books are "read only" devices? Is the iPad
bad for me because it allows me to carry all my reference manuals (in dead
tree form, about 50-100kg of paper) and data sheets in my backpack? I have
annotations in my books which reference various Internet resources, or include
comments about trouble I've had getting some circuits to work. How would I
annotate a book if the iPad was a "consumption only device"?

Learn to think for yourself and be a real entrepreneur, rather than pretending
to be an entrepreneur and letting other people tell you what to think. Your
faith in yourself must come from inside, not outside.

------
adrinavarro
True and false.

The iPad is inherently bad for producing, as most touch devices are (hm,
iPhone, most Androids…?). Most touch devices and their interfaces make
curating and consuming a very good experience, but producing is really hard
(unless posting photos and short texts frequently is producing… and still,
that's a new way of producing content we hadn't before).

And if you count curating as production, then, you're still producing. I
overall don't think it's as bad as it looks, you're still going to produce
when there is the need to… Or keep curating and doing small production the
rest of the time.

------
locusm
We have the iPad 1 and it is the most fought over device in the house. Kids
make the most use of it - games, Khan Academy, Plex client, music etc Wife
reads email, reads her fave sites, Skype etc I occasionally game on it, but
mostly checking twitter from bed or browsing motorcycle sites. Never has there
been a device in my household that so universally satisfies everyone's needs
from a 5 year old girl to a 42 year old bloke. I couldn't really give a toss
if I can produce anything on it or not.

------
TheBiv
Skip? Meh...For those who wish to segment their lives into producing devices
(Mac/PC) and consuming devices (iPad/Kindle) then it is actually a perfect
fit!

I do understand the sentiment that your friend is providing by pointing out
that your probability to become another consumer rather than a producer with
the device in tow is a valid point!

~~~
manicdee
Being a consumer or producer is going to be determined by whether you have an
iPad or not? Really?

Having a PC means you have all those computer games waiting to distract you.
PC and TVs are brain killers. The iPad is a brain nurturing device.

------
vibrunazo
It's only primarily a consumption device because there's not enough devs
building production apps for tablets. Which is why I bought one in the first
place. We're working on production tools that we'll use ourselves and which
are designed for tablets.

Summary: Don't like it? Hack it better :)

------
nico_h
Figure out what you want to be doing and see if the ipad fits in it.

Some creative things are more easily done on an iPad than a computer: I use
the Adobe ideas app (which has the most fluid 'ink') and a heavy stylus for
creating sketches. Penultimate is quite useful to organize UI sketches. Also
PDF annotation on the iPad is easier to do than on my mac (with a stylus).

With (and without) an external keyboard, I use plaintext to take notes and
taskpaper to manage todos. Lighter and less obtrusive than a full blown
laptop.

You can also use iPhoto, iMovie, Pages, Number, Keynote, and there are many
stop motion animation apps.

Maybe it is better for you to return it and use the money for buying a new
laptop, hacksaw or a 3d printer (or sewing kit). It is up to you.

------
Teknomad
A big part of my job is finding new technologies and keeping myself informed
-- for this, the iPad has been an excellent tool.

Another big part of my job is testing out new technologies and writing about
my experiences -- for this, the iPad is next to useless.

That said, I take a lot of notes on my iPad. For this, it's not optimal, but
its getting better -- closer to pen & paper. Unlike pen & paper, I can
actually share my notes and drawings with my globally-distributed team.

If Apple wants to reverse the trend of perception against the iPad as a
consume-only device, they should perfect its ability to simulate pen & paper
and tout its usefulness as a note-taking device. This appears to be the
approach Samsung is taking with the Galaxy Note.

------
richardw
One reason why I like having (some) new widgets is that they change how I
think about what is possible. You could not have figured out modern phones
while plugging away with your old Nokia. Some devices help you see the future,
and for me, my ideas are certainly affected by the technology I use.

Many apps are productive in nature - notes, reminders, stock trading etc.
Kindle is very useful even if it's consumptive. Reading is consumptive, but
also productive in the sense of 'doing something useful'. Besides, if you're
away from your computer, aching to produce and you only have an iPad...write
down what would help and make an app for that.

------
damian2000
So just buy and iPad and throw out your TV... assuming you have a TV that is
... ;-)

~~~
rimantas
Don't forget your books too. The same assumption applies :)

------
tzm
Content consumption is not necessarily evil. I see it as a natural part of
user adoption of new technology. People will overuse it to unconsciously push
the boundary of what's acceptable.

I see tablets as a key part of expanding and strengthening connectivity
between people.. essentially social / behavorial economics. This is a natural
element of the consumption curve.

A next form of convergence will have higher utility value ie, nfc, holographic
displays, etc. Let the consumers run wild I say. They will be well poised to
adopt the next phase of technical evolution.

------
webwanderings
I don't know about iPad but when I bought my first Android tablet recently (I
don't own any smart phone yet) my first instinct was that Android and this
Tablet craze is nothing but more of the same consumerism. These are not
productivity devices like computers and you can't really do or produce
anything on it other than to consume and receive. The only thing that exist on
these gadgets (be that smart phone or tablet) is the Market and these markets
are there to sell you something.

I am since then convinced that Desktop or Laptops are not going anywhere.

------
runjake
Here's what I think: I'll make up my own mind.

I don't get distracted like you and PG do. It seems to me you're blaming the
device for a lack of discipline on your part. It's not designed to instill
discipline. It's designed for convenience.

There's nothing wrong with "consuming". I read books, good articles, and so
on. I read more than ever.

I don't understand the apparent war against this. It's not like everyone is
hanging out, wasting time playing Angry Birds all day. Or maybe they are. But
it doesn't matter to me, because I'm not.

------
hundchenkatze
This is the very reason I haven't gotten one, or any tablet for that matter.
I've had access to my roommate's iPad 2 since day one, but I've never found a
good reason to use it.

------
carrot
Well, that is Apple's end game for the iPad after all. The same goes for
Amazon and its Kindle family of devices. Whether we like it or not, the iPad
and other similar devices are media consumption devices by design. You really
should have known that before you bought it.

Anyway, you do have the choice of either returning it or simply keeping it and
making the most out of it. And that is by focusing on its strengths and
basically everything that it does right.

------
ddw
Tablets to me are just an easier way to check status updates and feeds, ie
things I'm trying to get away from. They even favor laying down while doing
it!

I'm constantly confronted with similar questions: should I watch this game on
TV or spend the next two hours learning or making something, even if it turns
out ultimately to be a failure? I'm getting better everyday at choosing the
later.

------
yatta
Tablets with pen input are going to be great for creation (although the
current devices are a bit laggy, that should be fixed in the next twelve
months). Hopefully Apple will change their minds and support more creative
input.

Kids and old folks also seem to have their lives brightened up by iPads for
the communication uses: video chat = realtime production of "content" ^.^

------
SideburnsOfDoom
Even producers spend time consuming content. I'd expect that we all consume
far more content than we produce. It's worth optimising that experience as
well.

If nobody consumed these media, what would be the point of producing them?

I am more interested in what are you consuming - news.ycombinator.com or
news.fox.com? "Twilight" movies or "The Wire" TV series?

------
wowfat
There are much more producers now with youtube and more interesting links
sites like YC and many others etc.

Now they all need much more consumers that do no use the traditional medium
like TV. We need much more consumers with the iPads that consume these
interesting artilces / stories and comment, share with friends just like I am
doing right now on my iPad.

------
taylodl
Don't let other people do your thinking for you, and don't get something just
because everyone else is getting it. An iPad is a tool. Either you have a need
for it or you don't. In either case, if you decide to get one you're going to
discover you're the same old you as you were prior to getting it. And
hopefully that's a good thing! :)

------
BerislavLopac
Tablets are weapons of mass distraction.

------
therandomguy
This is the reason why I have stuck to my laptop. On the flip side majority of
the people only consume. There is no reason for them to be carrying around the
extra luggage. In fact I'm a consumer on TV, PS3, phone etc. the content
creators use a different machine.

------
j_baker
What's wrong with the iPad being a device for consuming? I like consuming. And
isn't it a good thing if people have more ways to consume the content
producers are producing? Production without consumption is useless.

------
haberman
What you say is more obviously true of a Kindle, but that doesn't mean that
owning a Kindle makes you produce less overall. It just changes the way that
you do consume when you choose to do so.

------
codezero
Most YC users are consuming links here, not producing... so yeah. Also,
consuming on the iPad is a completely legitimate way to stimulate yourself
into producing.

------
dmishe
>books & iTunesU

>useless

pick one

------
donburks
Feel free to send your iPad to me. I promise to thoroughly vet the balance I
achieve between consumption and production. As a full-time developer
(technical co-founder of a startup), I believe my perspective would be
incredibly relevant to the YC crowd. I'll blog about it daily (from the iPad
maybe?).

------
bobbypage
Do some iOS dev and this will no longer be a problem.

------
mahyarm
It also makes an awesome skype/facetime video phone.

------
stevear
So is a book.

------
jeffdechambeau
This is broken thinking.

The iPad is for content consumption. So what? So are books. We survived them
just fine. We survived TV, too.

Making content consumption easier is not a problem. You're just repeating the
same hysterics we've heard time and time again.

More than ever before in history, people are empowered to create and share
content. It stands to reason that it should have gotten even easier to sift
through and consume this content. And it has.

------
beza1e1
Citation needed! Who wrote that sentence?

