
The $357 Uber Ride - shravvmehtaa
http://news.rapgenius.com/E-c-the-s357-uber-ride-annotated
======
kyro
While I do suspect that he might not have paid close attention to warnings of
surge pricing (I'm an avid Uber user, and I've _always_ known if price is
surging), I do think he is right to be irritated at the company's lack of
response. Even if what he's claiming is totally false, there's a good chance
he fully believes in his side of the story, whether out of malice or honest
misunderstanding, and Uber should treat this as an opportunity to reacquaint a
user with their service, rebuild a relationship, and minimize any possibly
damaging PR.

The lack of customer support is a problem with many of the software-eating-
the-world startups, one that I think will hinder wider adoption. When you're
automatically charging customers variable prices for services of variable
quality that often deal with your safety or personal property, you should
probably provide customers with effective recourse.

~~~
greglindahl
The post is from December, 2013. Uber added the surge confirmation thingie in
February, 2014.

~~~
mattlutze
Perhaps the type-it-in confirmation bit, but they've been very plainly
notifying users of surge pricing since at least 2012:

[http://blog.uber.com/2012/03/14/clear-and-straight-
forward-s...](http://blog.uber.com/2012/03/14/clear-and-straight-forward-
surge-pricing/)

~~~
001sky
Uber should really update the price, not get people to sign off on a
"multiple".

They are doing every thing they can to avoid disclosing the price, because of
"sticker shock".

That's simply shady marketing, howver effective.

On that page it shows a fare and a multiple...it would be trivial for them to
show the "adjusted price".

[http://blog.uber.com/2012/03/14/clear-and-straight-
forward-s...](http://blog.uber.com/2012/03/14/clear-and-straight-forward-
surge-pricing/newsurge-3/)

Instead, the "old price" is in a tiny font and the "new multiple" is in tripe
size font.

The whold concept that by agreeing to a "multiple" is the same thing as
"agreeing to a new price" belies the fact that they are not disclosing the new
price.

They are leaving only the information that allows it to be inferred.

------
bluetidepro
This is not the first time I've seen people bring up Uber's plain shit
customer support. In fact, I've had my own problems with them as well to
justify that bold of a statement.

Back in the fall of 2013 a cab driver charged me $30 in Chicago instead of
what the meter said (which was around $8). After this happened, I had
contacted Uber support and they merely gave me some automated style response
saying there was nothing they could do because the city sets the cab pricing.
First off, they treated me like I was an idiot with a response like that. Of
course I knew the city set the rates, that wasn't the issue I was contacting
them about. Secondly, they completely ignored my problem all together. I
wasn't complaining because the price per mile was higher than UberX or
something like that. If I had, what they sent would have been a perfect
response. But no, I was complaining because the cab driver down right stole
money from me, and there was nothing I could do about it. They could clearly
see in the receipt that the time traveled, distance, etc. could have no way in
hell been worth $30 that I was charged. In fact, it was a cab ride to work so
I had plenty of other receipts that showed it was typically around $8-10. So,
like OP, my support ticket was marked "solve" and I was duped $20, and never
contacted again (even after I replied trying to further explain my problem).
It was after this that Uber always left a bad taste in my mouth. It was a
straight slap in the face to me (the customer) by Uber.

~~~
pmorici
Wait, what? How does the driver have any control over what you are charged
besides pressing the trip start/stop button on the phone? The Uber provided
iPhone handles all the charges and then they pay the driver.

~~~
bluetidepro
I'm not sure, to be honest? This was in fall of 2013, so I wonder if back then
the taxi drivers manually inputted the price?

...But my confusion is case in point that Uber's customer support did not
address anything like they should have. If you are right, then they could have
explained that to me. And that would also just mean it was clearly a bug in
their system that charged me more. And had that been the answer, I should have
gotten a refund. But I didn't, so maybe instead of the cab driver cheating me,
they were just straight cheating me. Who knows. All I do know is that I was
charged $30 for a ride that should have been $8-10, and I never got a real
response from their customer support to refund me, help me out, explain what
maybe happened, investigate, etc. That's the main problem I wanted to explain.

------
Axsuul
We got charged $130 for a ride that was only 6 blocks away but ended up taking
15 minutes during surge pricing in Los Angeles. Ever since that experience,
I've switched to Lyft and been pretty happy with them so far.

~~~
ulfw
Why would anyone call an Uber for 6 blocks? Honest question. That's about 1/3
to 1/2 a mile!! Even if you'd paid half or a quarter of that, wouldn't you say
that's a bit much for six blocks?

------
onedev
There have been reports that Uber has an internal website only for drivers
that advertises "More surge pricing than Lyft, etc if you switch to us!" or
something along those lines.

They are clearly advertising that they will make sure that there are more
surge pricing opportunities and this seems to be the result of that kind of
attitude.

EDIT: Seems like I'm being downvoted by a bunch of Uber employees, but
unfortunately the downvotes won't really accomplish much. I'm not stating any
wild opinions. Just facts and reasonable assumptions.

~~~
lsc
>There have been reports that Uber has an internal website only for drivers
that advertises "More surge pricing than Lyft, etc if you switch to us!" or
something along those lines.

It's interesting how companies try to message differently to different groups,
and how a message intended for investors really sounds bad to customers.

[http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/12/05](http://www.penny-
arcade.com/comic/2007/12/05)

~~~
mikeyouse
This sounds close to what you're describing (warning, Valleywag):

[http://valleywag.gawker.com/uber-forced-driver-shortage-
to-b...](http://valleywag.gawker.com/uber-forced-driver-shortage-to-boost-
surge-pricing-1531501176)

But Uber recruited new drivers for UberX, and then intentionally prevented
them from driving on Valentine's day so that surge pricing would come into
effect.

------
dully
I've referred thousands of users to Uber and managed to earn over $100,000 in
credits. I was only able to use $40,000 worth until they suspended my account
for reasons unknown. I've been trying to contact their support for weeks now
and like OP, they always ignore my messages and mark my case as "solved". Uber
is fraud and more people need to know this.

~~~
theboss
How do you even use 40000. For a non uber user and someone who has only taken
a cab a few times, that sounds like an incredible amount of money

~~~
dully
Been using them for the last 2 years, not too hard when you take an Uber
literally everywhere.

------
jmduke
To me, the only issue in this scenario is that Uber didn't show the author
surge pricing before confirming the ride. For what it's worth, the app has
always warned/informed me of the price hike before I confirm the pickup
(though I've only started using the app in the past two months, and this was
written in December of 2013.)

~~~
sneak
Whenever surge pricing above a certain amount (2.0X, I think) is in effect, it
makes you manually type in the multiple - both digits, e.g. "3, 0, confirm"
before it will let you even order a ride.

This guy's full of shit if he's claiming he didn't know it was surging until
after the receipt came. It's quite literally impossible to order an uber at
2.0x or above and not be painfully aware of the surge.

~~~
grinich
They also send you a push notification that mentions surge pricing when the
car is arriving.

~~~
hayksaakian
Is it possible that all these fail safes were bugged in the author's
circumstance? No software is 100% bug free.

~~~
baddox
That's possible. But it's also possible that the author is really upset at
having paid such a large amount of money, and is exaggerating (lying) by
saying there was no way to know the price beforehand.

------
Cieplak
If you paid with your credit card, you can always file a chargeback if the
pricing was unclear and customer support was unresponsive. Better yet if you
paid with your AmEx.

~~~
thejerz
...which will result in Uber permanently banning you from future rides.

~~~
MarkTee
If you had an experience bad enough to warrant a chargeback, why would you
_want_ to ride with them again?

~~~
res0nat0r
What is the chargeback excuse? It was more expensive than I thought it was
going to be?

~~~
PeterisP
Actually, that is one of explicitly listed allowed reasons for chargeback.

The price must be explicitly made clear to the customer before billing, and
it's responsibility of the merchant to make sure that it happens.

~~~
res0nat0r
Then every variable type charge (like a taxi ride) can be charged back? The
taxi and Uber terms are given to you up front so I don't think this sounds
very reasonable.

~~~
PeterisP
There is a difference between a variable type charge, and unexpectedly large
charges; the boundary being a bit subjective but possible to resolve in most
disputes. Variable charge means that your fare costs 50$ or 60$ depending on
traffic/route; but if you reasonably expect the fare to be $50 and they charge
you $350, without making it explicitly clear that the fares are such, then it
may be a reason for dispute.

For example, a somewhat common scenario for such chargebacks is seedy clubs
charging $1000 per drink to tourists. The fact that they had that tourist
drink in their menu doesn't change that it's both unreasonable and unexpected,
and according to mastercard/visa agreements chargebacks may be possible.

In general, the credit card companies are motivated to protect cardholders, so
their agreements with merchants sometimes put stricter conditions than local
consumer right legislation - the merchant can either alter their behavior; or
pay chargebacks; or not accept those creditcards.

------
ulfw
"surge pricing" or not, does no one question how a glorified taxi ride can
cost $350+ for just 14 miles? $25 a mile? In what world do we live that we can
find people who are willing to pay a dinner per mile?

~~~
thrillgore
I'm pretty sure when they realize how much they pay they never return.

------
gfosco
Surge or not, they would lose me as a customer over something like this. That
is an obscene amount of money for a glorified taxi.

Luckily, I've had great experiences with Uber. Only once did I give a low
star-rating, and they contacted me and adjusted the fare because of it.

------
googamooga
I'm living in Moscow, Russia and, despite all the bears lurking in my
neighbourhood, we have Uber here too. I'm frequent user of Uber, riding at
least five times per week. Yes, sometimes, like once in two weeks I see their
surge pricing thing and it is usually Friday, 3pm. Which is rather strange,
considering that all Muscovites finish their jobs on Friday at 5pm-6pm
earliest.

As for the user support - I would say it is just excellent. At least here in
Russia. Once I had a ride with a driver who forgot to turn on the meter. When
I received the receipt, it showed very different route from the route from my
office to my home. I marked my experience with two stars and gave a "Wrong
route" reason. Next day I got an email from Uber support person, explaining
the problem (forgotten meter). The also gave me a rebate in amount of 30% or
my ride.

So, I'm not considering them as evil, even despite they ruin gypsy taxi
business.

~~~
Grue3
This is the first time I hear about Uber in Moscow, and I live there. Never
seen it advertised or anything.

------
merrua
Its unsurprising. I cant understand why anyone would use an unregulated taxi
company. Predatory surge pricing is part of the reason taxis are regulated.
Safety for the customer being the other large reason.

------
pclark
Forgive my ignorance, but this guy must have specifically typed in the 3.75x
multiplier before his ride was ordered. How can you complain about such things
when you so implicitly agreed to it?

------
asharpe
The lack of customer service really is the crux of this article (putting aside
the issues surrounding whether surge was agreed to or not).

On one hand, I can appreciate that Uber doesn't want to provide a 'service
level agreement' when the service providers are third parties (the taxi/car
driver).

On the other hand, not helping someone resolve an issue (that is well more
than trivial) is worrisome.

Much has been said and promised of Uber (yes, I use it and love it). However,
this could well be another example of a company that scales quickly promising
a level of customer service that simply can't scale (either operationally or
financially). The real question is how many repeat customers Uber has over
time. Buying once is nice, buying everyday is what they need.

------
kyleblarson
I just checked my history and I have had 44 Uber trips in a variety of cities
since 2012 and have not had a single negative experience. Am I just lucky?
(not trying to be sarcastic, honestly curious)

~~~
DanBC
People need to start blogging their mundane experiences.

"I got a coffee. They got the order right; charged me a reasonable amount;
served me in an acceptable time. The place wasn't too crowded or noisy, and it
was clean. I drank it - it was nice coffee, and then I left. We said a cheery
'goodbye!' as I left."

------
chinpokomon
Not to detract from this individual's experience, but a close friend of mine
was given money back when her Uber driver didn't take the most efficient
route. This happened two weeks ago and the kicker is that it was completely
unprompted by her. She was happy with the service she received and they
emailed her to refund her money she hadn't asked for. She's now sold on Uber,
Lyft, Sidecar, et al.

$357 is completely exorbitant. My longest Uber ride was to the airport. A
black car picked me up and drove the 30 or so miles and it didn't cost me more
than $100. I can't fathom why the ride in this posting was as expensive as it
was. My experience and that of my friends has been exceptional.

------
rurounijones
On a totally off-topic bit. After reading that page I have horizontal bars all
across my vision when looking at everything else.

Pure white text and pure black background seems to cause trouble like nothing
else.

------
shravvmehtaa
A while ago my Uber account got banned when I had to leave for a flight at the
SJC airport. I wasn't able to contact customer support or even get in touch
with someone till almost 3 days later, after various tweets. Really
disappointed in how they treat their customers. They also asked me to send
pictures of my Drivers License and Debt Card over email to unfreeze my account
for no reason. Luckily, I caught a Lyft. Uber needs to work on this.

------
olugbam
1\. People use rap genius as a blogging platform? 2\. I have never, and know
none who has ever, taken an Uber during surge and not been notified about it.

The options are i) Uber maliciously doesn't notify some users of surge ii)
There was a bug which caused this user to not be notified of surge (locking in
rate after clicking confirm), iii) this guy is full of shit. iv) something i
haven't thought of.

------
nilkn
I've never used Uber (not available in my city). Are surge prices not
reflected accurately in the app when booking a ride?

~~~
codystebbins
They are reflected quite well in my opinion. Here is a blog post detailing the
system they implemented in March 2012 [http://blog.uber.com/2012/03/14/clear-
and-straight-forward-s...](http://blog.uber.com/2012/03/14/clear-and-straight-
forward-surge-pricing/). They also have useful notifications for when surge
pricing ends. Not sure what happened in this situation though.

~~~
madeofpalk
In fact, they've changed and improved the system since then. Now you have to
confirm surge pricing by typing in the multiplier.

------
cosineumann
Glitch in the system? If there was no known reason for the surge pricing (not
New Years, not bad weather etc) maybe he was not notified beforehand of the
surge pricing because it shouldn't have happened in the first place?

------
fiatjaf
I think there is room for a company offering lower fees.

------
Xorlev
Someone is angry they didn't read their dialogs close enough.

------
Dylan16807
> Oh, they're real alright, buddy.

What's real alright? That quote is completely unrelated to the rest of the
article.

I won't even go into caring what the BBB thinks. This article doesn't seem to
be well-put-together.

------
d23
Fuck Uber. I've only been gouged by their app -- never Lyft. Lyft clearly
warns and all the additional money goes to the drivers as an incentive. If I'm
paying more than twice the cost of a cab I could wave down on the street,
what's the point?

Just to be clear, I have no affiliation with either company. I'm just glad
someone with a voice is complaining.

~~~
jordanthoms
When you are paying more than the cost of a cab for an Uber, try getting a
cab. Go out on the street and stick your thumb out or call a dispatch line.
You'll soon figure out why Uber prices are surging.

