

Economist on Linux Desktop: Free is too expensive - bokchoi
http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2012/03/desktop-linux?r=2

======
hristov
Are you f'ing kidding me. He writes an entire article about how there is no
professional support for Linux without mentioning Redhat or Canonical that
both provide professional support.

He may have a good point in the middle in that there are still some driver
issues. But those are not really issues if you treat Linux the same way you
treat the competition. If you buy a computer with Linux loaded on it you will
not have any issues.

But his main point, that there is no professional support is utterly and
obviously wrong.

------
papaf
I would suggest to anybody that is considering ditching Linux to give a
thought to trying another distribution. I've had very few problems with the
following:

Lubuntu - simple, elegant and fast

Fedora 16 - pretty and lots of features out the box (LVM, SELinux).

OpenSUSE - No fancy new desktops, no trouble getting software such as flash to
work

I know this may be preaching to the converted here on HN but I've seen several
posts today from people who have ditched Linux to go back to Windows.

~~~
mongol
I liked OpenSUSE a lot, I used it for almost 10 years between 2002 and last
year. It was on my computer at work for 5 years, and at home the entire time.

But the article has a point, and it is something that made me switch to
Windows last year. The problem is that it never works perfectly. I am not so
much talking about the desktop, although I have suffered through my share of
broken Gnome and KDE desktops. The problem is the driver situation.

I started my own business last year and needed a computer to work on. The Dell
laptop I purchased is great, except

\- The wireless network did not work \- Bluetooth did not work \- The video
camera did not work \- The mic did not work \- The SD card slot did not work
\- The touch pad's scroll area did not work

I worked on these problems for a few months, and I fixed many, but finally I
had it. My conclusion was that while much of the software in the Linux
ecosystem steadily improves, other parts continuously breaks, and it will
remain that way. The experimentation with the desktops I could live with, but
the driver situation is another matter. I am too old to spend hours and hours
patching the distribution to support the hardware I have.

I love Linux - and my intent was to use it in Virtualbox under Windows. I
reasoned that Windows will have the driver support, and Virtualbox will
deliver a sane hardware interface for Linux. But Windows 7 works well enough
for me, so in practise I don't start Virtualbox often at all.

I don't think I will return to Linux running on the bare metal. But I will
always bring the skills I learned with me, and I expect them to last me for
decades.

~~~
leave
Funny thing is that I couldn't manage to have bluetooth working on my Latitude
running Win7, while ubuntu brought up all the devices out-of-box.

~~~
Danieru
The media keys on my keyboard do not work under Win7 without letting windows
download extra drivers.

Let's not even mention my printer.

Meanwhile with ubuntu 12.04 beta 2 everything came up without configuration.
Printer included.

------
o1iver
Even though the author may be making a valid point, I don't think it matters.
I mostly program for myself and for other programmers (or at least technically
inclined people). I don't care if my mother uses the software I write. That is
why I don't really care about such things as popularity. I am quite certain
that my distribution of choice (arch) will be there for a long time and its
maintainers will keep making it better for themselves and for their core user
group.

------
rosser
Repost: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3778999>

~~~
bokchoi
Oops. HNSearch didn't find that when I checked.

------
dman
Writers seem to have realised that writing stories elaborating about the
dismal state of linux on the desktop translates into large click throughs from
angry nerds.

~~~
WiseWeasel
This feels more like the heart-felt lamentations of a longtime Linux user than
click-bait trolling for angry nerds. The author brings up some good points;
Linux has to be better than Windows 7 on the desktop, because that's what the
kids will be using in the meantime.

~~~
dman
Yes large parts of the article were more balanced than other recent pieces and
there seemed to be some genuine warmth for linux but the ending was trollish
imo - "Now let the angry ad hominems from the Linux faithful commence..."

------
bokchoi
Also, there is an lively discussion on lwn:

<http://lwn.net/Articles/489689/>

I tend to agree that linux desktop needs a stable ABI that ISVs can target.

~~~
angersock
A fun read, and most of the problem seems to be repesented in this subthread (
<http://lwn.net/Articles/489747/> ).

A sample:

 _"To what end? If you want the experience of running Windows or MacOS, and
you're happy with proprietary software, then there a a couple of perfectly
decent ways of getting those experiences. I run Linux because of the things it
does differently - we don't need another Mac OS, we have one already."_

This is why everyone laughs at Linux folks when they complain/hope-for Linux
On The Desktop (For Real This Time!).

:)

~~~
bct
Linux users are not a monolithic group that all simultaneously want mainstream
success and exclusivity. There's plenty of room for both approaches.

~~~
angersock
Room, yes--patronage, no.

The vast majority of users don't care about the sort of crap even really
friendly distros (#!, Mint, Ubuntu) make you wade through. They literally want
--and have come to expect--"push button, receive app."

I'd suggest that the Linux community either decide that they need to create a
compelling, modern UX (and in so doing acknowledge that things like package
management and security are really bikesheds as far as users are concerned),
or they need to decide that they are an elite operating system and should
optimize for retaining and helping their users (and in so doing stop with
stupid UI decisions that break conventions and alienate existing users).

I don't care whether Linux goes mainstream or totally elitist, but the current
compromise is this awkward kid at a party who is no fun to be around for the
popular kids and who is hated by his old D&D buddies for snubbing them.

~~~
bct
Your expectations are odd. Large, loosely-knit communities don't (and can't)
decide things in the way that you're suggesting.

Regardless of what "should" happen, we're just going to continue muddling
around. It's worked out OK so far.

------
leave
Why not simply throw Mint to the trashcan and check any other distro? Besides,
when speaking of office usage, there're clearly just 3 options available:
Ubuntu LTS, SLED, and RHED. All the rest should only be considered as-is: e.g.
no centralized support from ICT, no updates, and so on.

------
davidrupp
The first beige-box PC I owned, I bought with the express intention of
declining the Windows license, wiping it, and installing Linux (Slackware,
back in the day). I fought with weird window managers and device drivers for a
few years, then tossed it all when Mac OS X came out. Today, Terminal.app is
still the killer app on Mac for me. I have yet to see a Linux distro that can
compete.

------
brownbat
Content aside, this commenter found the acrobatics to avoid first person
painful to read.

~~~
astrofinch
It could be an Economist thing; they don't credit their writers either.

