
The Price of Covid Freedom May Be Eternal Spying - pseudolus
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-05-10/coronavirus-contact-tracing-apps-mean-spying-end-to-data-privacy
======
troughway
The language used in this article is written with a soft authoritarian tone.

It’s a nice gesture of Bloomberg to put shills for his wet dreams in the
opinion section, but the advocacy of surveillance state by the big media is
becoming obvious.

I can’t speak for HN or the mods, but I do wonder if there are subjects that
are not worth discussing because of how undemocratic and liberty infringing
they are.

Case in point, anything that uses the language and examples like this
“opinion” piece to hem around a “means justify the ends” rhetoric.

They (media, governments, billionaires) will use any and all means to gain
more control, power, and minimize potential leakers, whistleblowers, usurpers
and anyone who disagrees with their rule.

~~~
keenmaster
Would you be in favor of such "authoritarian" measures if COVID-19 had a 15%
fatality rate, affected the young just as much as the old, and three of your
extended family members + 20 friends/acquaintances died?

If the answer is yes, then our differences lie in the value you place on human
life rather than our relative support for "authoritarianism." COVID tracing
apps are about as authoritarian as forcing open your neighbor's door and
violating his personal sovereignty by saving him from a house fire.

~~~
gentleman11
Except you don’t know whether the neighbours house isn’t on fire, so you had
better go in just in case. And while you are there, take an inventory of
everything you find, record the data forever for unknown future purposes, and
then never leave. It is not a valid comparison.

~~~
keenmaster
A more precise analogy on my part would have illustrated negative
externalities. I am partially reliant on you for my safety. Even if I do
everything I can to protect myself and others from the virus, you still put me
at risk if you don't do the same.

No one will compel you to opt into COVID tracing. You can purchase a non-
iOS/Android phone. That would be a reasonable price to pay for forsaking a
valuable public safety measure. Moreover, grocery stores and other businesses
should be free to require proof that someone has a COVID-tracing device before
entering the premises.

~~~
sfj
> I am partially reliant on you for my safety. Even if I do everything I can
> to protect myself and others from the virus, you still put me at risk if you
> don't do the same.

People put other people at risk by driving. Heck, a big tree in a public place
is a risk due to the potential for falling limbs. Are you against those
things, too?

This whole argument seems to be about the people who feel vulnerable to the
disease having to go to grocery stores to get food.

If the government would supply clean food to those people, it would seem that
we'd no longer have to metaphorically lock everyone in chains in order to save
the few.

~~~
keenmaster
I am not arguing in favor of further lockdown. I think we should partially
relax the lockdown for everyone who is not “at risk,” but with proper
mitigations:

1\. Obligatory masks (freely provided by the government)

2\. Social distancing and limitations on large or dense gatherings. Special
policies should be rolled out for each sector (offices, restaurants, etc...)

3\. Contact tracing apps

4\. Greater testing (not necessarily population-wide, but a lot more than what
is currently available)

5\. Free delivery of essential goods for the at-risk population, and
potentially subsidized delivery for non-essential goods

Because of the OP, I was mostly addressing mitigation #3.

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scottlocklin
People who write pro-totalitarian surveillance hellscape articles like this
should definitely be placed on some kind of list.

~~~
greenonions
Not only is the article not 'pro-totalitarian surveillance hellscape', but
ironically, placing people on lists for articles they write is.

edit: grammar

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redis_mlc
You can't fight nature.

One word: herd immunity.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Like we have for all the other coronaviruses that we know as (a big part of)
common cold?

------
TaylorSwift
"...life, liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness."

It's why saving lives are the most important, even at the expense of liberty
and your happiness. Without life, the other two wouldn't exist.

~~~
encom
Nonsense. "Life", in this context, refers to your right not to have your life
taken by the state. You don't have a right to be safe from all harm.

------
greenonions
In response to the article, it most certainly will be. The loss of privacy
allows states to compete through coordination that otherwise isn't possible.

Consider that the United States' disposition to privacy has contributed to the
less effective response to the pandemic. Does the US gain an equivalent amount
of competitiveness for the vulnerabilities that privacy allows? Are decisions
even being considered with regard to this trade-off?

I'm probably biased because I have enjoyed the benefits of privacy my whole
life, but is it possible that the US is in general placing too high value on
privacy?

