
Is it ok to be a jerk to jerks at office? - mightymosquito
I was interviewing a new candidate today, and we do it in pairs.<p>I try to be as nice to people interviewing as possible(given how tech interviews can be pretty stressful).<p>However, the guy I was pairing with was not only being a bloody jerk, but he was also downright disrespectful(to the extent that he was pressing for an alternative solution to a problem which the candidate solved absolutely fine, and the jerk himself did not know of any other solution).<p>Should I treat the pig the same way he treated this candidate(just to teach him a lesson) or maybe take the higher road?
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ariejan
Or talk to him in private afterwards? Like adults? Explain how his _behaviour_
affected you and possibly the candidate as well.

There's lots of reasons people act the way they do. Don't assume you know what
his reasons are - talk to the guy and be open to have your mind changed by
what he has to say.

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mercer
I'll add that Non-Violent Communication is an area that can help with issues
like this.

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seanhunter
Firstly, do give timely feedback to the person after the candidate. They may
not realise and we should always seek to help others to self-improve. Ideally
this should be non-judgemental and impact-based. Maybe something along the
lines of "Hey there, in that interview when you pressed for an alternative
solution it didn't appear you were giving enough consideration to what the
candidate had provided. If you alienate a prospective candidate, we damage our
brand and don't just lose out on hiring them, we lose out on hiring any smart
friends they may have." The idea is not to attribute intent but just to focus
on impact. Read up on "non-violent communication" if you want practical
pointers on how to do this.

Secondly don't be a jerk but see this as an opportunity to show your
character. To quote the Enchiridion of Epictetus:

"Provoked by the sight of a handsome man or a beautiful woman, you will
discover within you the contrary power of self-restraint. Faced with pain, you
will discover the power of endurance. If you are insulted, you will discover
patience. In time, you will grow to be confident that there is not a single
impression that you will not have the moral means to tolerate. "

This is something I personally really need to work on (seeing adversity as an
opportunity to discover and reinforce resourcefulness within yourself).

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orisho
Wouldn't that make you a jerk too?

I definitely wouldn't do anything "to teach somebody a lesson", that seems
culturally unhealthy. Talk to them about the issue.

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feintruled
Definitely take the high road. To do otherwise might foster a toxic working
atmosphere. I mean, you are already starting with one jerk, you don't need
two. Plus, he wasn't actually rude to YOU, and anyone who saw you being rude
to him might think you were at fault without context.

You could pull him up - "Hey, you were a bit of a dick with that interviewee,
what's up?" Or flag it up to your boss that your colleague uses interviews as
a bit of a power trip.

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ianai
I’d consider mentioning how he handled the interview to who ever paired you
with him. If management is just as jerky as him, though, I’d skip it.

In the moment, I have realized bullies only honor other bullies. So being a
jerk to him may be required. But consider what outcome you want to achieve
before committing to that. It might work and he becomes less of a douche or it
might make him even worse to work with.

People like this are something like institutional herpes. You don’t know when
or how he’ll rear up and try to tear you or someone or something else down. I
think lesser skilled people think of such confrontations or disagreements as a
way to look equal to people with actual skill or knowledge. Or they’re just
thinking wins only come at the cost of losses to someone else.

I’m reminded of an old game theoretic article comparing simple strategies in
repeated games. The “tit for tat” algorithm had the best long term outcomes.
It would break with the cooperative strategy anytime the opposing party would.
I think it would stay that way until the other party cooperated, but it’s been
a while. It might have just stayed non cooperative for eternity.

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tomkarho
The way I see it you have four roads to take. Each one with their own pros and
cons.

1\. Be the jerk. This will unfortunately mean that you will sacrifice any high
moral ground (imao) you might have over the jerk since you have now stooped to
his level. To quote a certain alien from a certain movie: "This is getting out
of hand. Now there are two of them."

2\. Take the high road. This will avoid conflict but also will not resolve the
source problem which might resurface again but it might just be someone elses
problem

3\. Take it up with him. Do it in private. Calmly and respectfully. Don't tell
him he is being a jerk. Have a conversation about it. The difference? Ask him
"do you think that was approriate?" Instead of "stop being a jerk" etc. Try to
use language that doesn't put them on the defensive (very hard to do I admit)

4\. Kick the problem upstairs. Talk to his superior/hr and tell them about the
situation. They will handle it for you (or not). However when management gets
involved, stakes go higher for all parties involved (including you being the
"snitch").

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dojosensei
First thing is to stop reacting emotionally to the jerk but rather rationally.
Ask yourself why the jerk behaved the way he did. One could easily reason that
it's not uncommon for the interviewer to talk down to an interviewee because
they are looking for a job.

As such, the interviewer feels like they are in a position of power. This is
why top tech companies often make the interviewee do a lot of work and go
through the rigorous process of multiple interviews before getting hired. They
feel like they can do that in their authority position. However, this doesn't
make it right.

People who abuse their power shouldn't be in their authority position. An
abuse of power is when they use their position to feel superior to others.
It's likely the jerk has low self-esteem and was taking advantage of his
position to feel superior to the candidate. Such people do not belong in
authority positions. I would speak to your boss about his behavior and
recommend the jerk not be the interviewer anymore for the reasons stated
above.

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ochronus
Depends on what you mean by "ok". Being a jerk to him might have some
beneficial effects, mainly you yourself feeling better ("Now I've shown him,
ha!") or maybe he realizes his wrong ways. I'd doubt the latter and the former
doesn't help too much in the situation (unless you only care about your mood).

I'd try talking to the guy first, with well formed arguments and especially
leaving out the word "jerk" or synonyms. Walk him through how it probably felt
for the candidate (in the usual form of 'when you did X, the candidate
probably felt Y) and show them how it's actually bad for the hiring loop,
candidate experience and the company's reputation. Show him alternatives, too.
Offer pair practice. See how he reacts. If he doesn't react well to this, take
it one level higher as this can very quickly get to hardly reversible bad
results.

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arh68
Unless you're a founder, just ask what the policy is. It could very well be
your company's hiring process just sucks (as-is), and your colleague is
coloring well within the lines. How does the company reconcile "solved
absolutely fine" with "pressing for an alternative"? It _could_ be settled by
who gets trolled the hardest, yes, but it's hardly reliable. This seems like
something worth talking about 1-1 with your manager, like over lunch. _Is this
behavior normal? Can I just not be paired with him?_

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AnimalMuppet
> Can I just not be paired with him?

Stronger: _Can he never be allowed to interview ever again?_

He's going to cost your company qualified candidates. He's going to hurt your
reputation as an employer.

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arh68
Yeah, no disagreement there. Doing it right is first resort, avoidance is a
last resort, and in between might involve a jungle of Is There A Process, can
we change it, why not, does literally everyone else hate this guy too and is
afraid to say anything, was this guy just hungry or something, is there some
reason we can't fire him..&c&c and then maybe the last resort. I have barely
any context, I don't want to speculate.

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kstenerud
You take him aside and talk to him about his bad behavior and let him know why
it's unacceptable.

Responding in kind is childish, and only leads to escalation. If by "taking
the high road" you mean to let it pass, that's also a bad idea, because the
behavior will continue and now you'll be morally responsible for not saying
anything.

However, given that you've referred to him as a "pig", I'd suggest that you
give yourself some time to calm down before talking to him. Talks like this go
very badly if you don't have any empathy in reserve.

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sswaner
Take the high road. Your positive and professional example will prove more
productive than behavior that will condone his own bad behavior.

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cjslep
You can _try_ to teach him a lesson. It probably won't stick.

Taking the high road doesn't mean doing nothing. There are professional ways
to handle the jerk's unprofessionalism. You can use this to grow yourself,
rather than trying to grow an unwilling jerk.

~~~
ochronus
I'd argue it could stick. There might be a systemic issue in this case, such
as no proper interview training present. This might be a good time suggesting
something like that or at least doing pair practice. In my experience there
are extremely few people actually trying to consciously be jerks regardless of
how it looks from the other side.

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segmondy
Read this on Brilliant Jerks
[http://www.brendangregg.com/blog/2017-11-13/brilliant-
jerks....](http://www.brendangregg.com/blog/2017-11-13/brilliant-jerks.html)

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factorialboy
What do you want to achieve by being a jerk to the jerk? Do you want to hurt
them for their actions? Or do you want to transform them? Or you are happy
with achieving your work goal not to be bothered with this side quest?

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oceanghost
"Jerk's don't know they're jerks, that's why they think you're the jerk."

Don't violate your own standards of conduct, but don't put up with their shit
either.

Stand up for yourself, but politely.

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xaerise
This is an perfectly fine example by the candidate to think outside the box
and your colleague didn't notice that.

Take the higher road and don't be a jerk. Your other colleagues might react
differently to you then.

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AnimalMuppet
Start with your own attitude. "Pig"? That's not OK. He's a human being, even
if he is a jerk.

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vectorEQ
:')... don't adapt yourself to other peoples standards. be yourself regardless
of people around you.

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migstopheles
The question here simply seems to be "is it OK to be a jerk?". I would say no.

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loopz
Is it ok to sometimes be a jerk?

Is the jerk capable of sometimes pass on being a jerk?

It is OK to be yourself.

Unless you're a jerk!

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begemotz
the problem is the minute you go down this road, most people are more inclined
to start looking at a lot more people as 'jerks' to justify our own impulses
toward jerky behavior...

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Apreche
No. Act professionally and report the jerk to HR.

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ochronus
sorry, but that's not professional. Try talking to him first.

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bediger4000
I agree that going to HR isn't professional. HR works for the company, not for
the employees. Whatever HR does, they have (from the viewpoint of the
employees) corrupt and inscrutable motives, so their actions are less than
predictable.

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ochronus
That's not what I meant, actually - I've worked with amazing people from HR
(and less amazing ones, too, ofc) - what I meant is owning the problem and
trying to inspire change instead of 'reporting' someone the first time
something like this happens. And, actually, in this case the company's
reputation is at stake, too - word gets around quickly about sh.tty interview
experiences.

~~~
bediger4000
Thanks for clarifying, those are good points as well. HR still works for the
corporation, and has little interest in anything other than cost savings in
general.

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imvetri
Teach a lesson. Feel good. Hit the road.

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ryannevius
Let it come, let it be, let it go.

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NoCanDo
Yes

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techterrier
No.

