
Face ID is replacing Touch ID on the new iPhone X - pearlsteinj
https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/12/face-id-is-replacing-touch-id-on-the-new-iphone-x/
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freeflight
Face recognition for authentification has been around for a quite a while,
let's see how robust Apple could make it. It's still a weird future we're
heading towards.

It makes me wonder what legal consequences it's gonna have once this kind of
technology is widespread among all smartphones with high identification
reliability? What's to stop anybody from combining different biometric
identification systems into one device? A combination of Touch ID/Face ID,
coupled with some voice recognition and whatever else is possible with
biometrics, would probably be able to identify the user with a very high
certainty.

Smartphones are also increasingly being turned into an "ID card replacement",
even banks have been pushing to use them as a replacement for CC/Debit cards
for years.

Which kinda makes sense considering how not every country has ID cards but a
vast number of people on this planet have smartphones or at least mobile
phones. If one wanted to index the whole human population of planet Earth, it
would probably a good start to "just" collect the SIM/IMEI data from all
mobile phones in circulation. [0]

It's still a quite dystopian idea of a future, where the identity of a person
is solely defined and legitimized by their smartphone/mobile device. Scary
thing being: We are closer to this kind of future than it might seem; the
aptly named US program "Skynet" uses mobile metadata for targeting selection
of drone strikes, has been doing so for quite a while [1]

[0] [https://www.gsmaintelligence.com/](https://www.gsmaintelligence.com/)

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SKYNET_(surveillance_program)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SKYNET_\(surveillance_program\))

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kdamken
And I thought that removing the headphone jack for the 7 was the worst
possible decision they could make.

Does every design meeting at Apple start with: "What beloved feature can we
remove and replace with something no one fucking cares about?"

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mzs
This has not been well thought out for part of the world.

[https://www.pri.org/stories/2012-08-13/expand-job-
opportunit...](https://www.pri.org/stories/2012-08-13/expand-job-
opportunities-saudi-arabia-plans-women-only-work-zone)

~~~
bambax
What about twins? Does touch ID even work with twins?

~~~
saurik
This was explicitly brought up by the presenter (though through the premise of
an "evil twin" and a photo of Spock from Mirror, Mirror) and they said you
should consider a password.

~~~
return0
that sounds like a lot of inconvenience

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whipoodle
Let's just make sure we're talking about how it will _actually_ work, not what
we're guessing based on some tech blogs and today's presentation.

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kevinavery
They say that Face ID falsely recognizes 1 in 1,000,000 people (1 in 50,000
for Touch ID), but it's a lot easier to find the people who look like a given
target to unlock their phone. Could be an issue if a mutual friend knows
someone who looks enough like you to unlock your phone.

~~~
pavel_lishin
Just because someone "looks like" your target to you doesn't mean they're
similar enough to fool whatever algorithms the iPhone is using.

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infogulch
Yes. So how much do look-alikes change that number?

It's 1/1M for strangers. Is it 1/10k for family members? 1/100 for close look-
alikes?

The difference between FaceID and TouchID is that you don't have pictures of
millions of people's fingerprints available publicly online...

~~~
kevinavery
Exactly. Someone mining Facebook could build a directory of doppelgängers near
each person. A little social engineering could get a bystander to unlock the
target's phone without them even realizing they are facilitating a crime.

~~~
IshKebab
Ah, HN-level paranoia.

~~~
pavel_lishin
That's what they used to say about Stallman.

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crazygringo
Genuine question: will identical twins be able to unlock each others' phones?

Or do they actually have enough differences that the phone can pick up on,
even if people can't tell them apart?

~~~
codazoda
They have enough differences.

I've only known one set of identical twins, back in high school, and at first
I thought they looked the same. After a while, however, you can recognize the
differences. I suspect a phone has enough data points that it sees them as
different people.

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kuschku
A non-conclusive list of places where this will be an issue:

China, Japan, S.E.A.: Surgical masks against smog, or to avoid spreading
germs.

Northern Europe, Canada, Northern US: Winter clothing that covers the face to
avoid the cold temperatures

Middle East: Religious clothing for women hiding their faces.

Anywhere with hot summers: Sunglasses covering the entire eyes, making it
impossible to see if you’re looking at the screen (which is a requirement for
FaceID unlock).

~~~
gist
> China, Japan, S.E.A.: Surgical masks against smog, or to avoid spreading
> germs. Northern Europe, Canada, Northern US: Winter clothing that covers the
> face to avoid the cold temperatures

I am thinking that there will be the ability to program recognition with
clothing that you own (color, texture) if you want to accept the risk. For
most people I don't think they will be worried about something that has some
of the same facial features stealing their phone. After all not everything
will be blocked. And for that matter you can't do touch ID with gloves on,
right?

> Middle East: Religious clothing for women hiding their faces.

Nothing to prevent a third party from offering a device which also allows
touch id or simply using the alternate unlock. After all I don't think the
amount of women hiding their faces in middle east countries means that the
rest of us can't have this feature. How much business will they lose? In the
end this is a business decision not a social one.

> Sunglasses covering the entire eyes, making it impossible to see if you’re
> looking at the screen (which is a requirement for FaceID unlock).

Once again will probably be able to allow use of sunglasses that you own with
facial features that you have. Sure chance that someone could spoof you but
for most of us not really a big threat. And someone needs the phone to do so
and needs to know what you have programmed in as far as your clothing.

~~~
zchrykng
I don't think anyone is arguing that Face ID shouldn't have been created, just
that it shouldn't be the only option.

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beauzero
I know it is supposed to be "local" or "onboard" only with the new processor
but...mildly spooky.

~~~
X86BSD
It's stored in the secure enclave.

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noncoml
You know what would be extremely useful at this point? An actual demo from a
reporter, and not only for the FaceID, but in general for how the phone works
without a home button.

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jaytaylor
Why'd Apple choose to make the iPhone X out of stainless steel? Titanium, for
example, would be half the weight and much more interesting..

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bdcravens
Which material is less resistant to scratching? When I saw that shiny edge, I
couldn't help but wonder how long it would take to get scuffed up.

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khedoros1
I think that titanium has a comparable hardness to stainless steel (6.0 vs
5.5-6.3 on the Mohs scale).

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return0
What about beards? And honestly why is this a big deal? sounds as easy to fool
as a fingerprint, and is still less secure than a password

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davidiach
That's just one of the ways to unlock the phone. You can use a password when
traveling for eg.

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mzs
demo fails here

[https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/9/12/16296912/a...](https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/9/12/16296912/apple-
iphone-x-face-id-demo-fail)

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wt85
Great way to integrate the government backdoor without actually publicly
saying it.

Catch the perp, get full access to the device. -Apple

~~~
jgillette
I guess that's why the added the 5 press power button which disables the
Touch/Face ID features

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larvaetron
Which is great if you're able to do that before someone snatches your phone
and aims the camera at your face to unlock it.

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k__
so instead of stealing your finger print it's now enough to get a picture?

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make3
You really didn't read the article did you. Second paragraph says "Apple says
the facial scan is so accurate there’s now only a 1 in 1,000,000 chance of
another random person’s face being able to unlock your phone. This is much
better than the 1 in 50,000 error rate for Touch ID. And no, holding a photo
up of someone can’t unlock their phone – nor can a Hollywood-grade face mask,
which (shown below) were used by Apple’s engineering teams to train the
feature."

~~~
k__
I'll wait till the CCC had their take on this...

