

Why rebel groups love the Toyota Hilux - bron
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/10/14/why-rebel-groups-love-the-toyota-hilux.html?GT1=43002

======
rdl
Please note that the US military uses Hiluxes extensively in Iraq (and to some
extent, in Afghanistan), too. We sold a bunch of Ford Rangers to the Iraqi and
Afghan militaries (poor guys; those trucks are ok but the rear drum brakes
consistently freeze up when parked in cold muddy conditions).

The best truck is a hilux with the ignition rigged to just require a toggle
switch to turn on, and the inverted "T" for center of gravity calculations
when sling loading (and the dry weight in kilos marked on the side) on some
duct tape on the side.

Sometimes I've seen the rear seats turned sideways to serve as side gunners,
with a pintle mount in the cargo bed (either on the light bar for forward arc
only, or in the middle of the bed for 360 degree). Usually the US only does
that with bigger trucks like the Silverado.

I wish I could get a small common-rail diesel truck in the US, or maybe a
diesel-electric hybrid, on the hilux chassis. A truck that size which could be
a decent remote site electric generator would be amazing.

~~~
FraaJad
Keep an eye out for the Mahindra&Mahindra(India) Diesel truck which should
land in the US by 2011Q1.

~~~
barredo
Or most Russian pick-ups

~~~
FraaJad
which Russian pick-ups are scheduled to be sold in US in the coming future?

~~~
rdl
The problem with small diesel trucks in the US, aside from consumer
perception, is that certain states (e.g. California) have emissions
regulations which make it very difficult to pass (particulates, nitrous
oxides). Additionally, until 2008-2010, US diesel fuel was really high sulfur,
which killed most emissions control systems. (the irony is now European fuel
is higher sulfur). I think trucks under a certain weight had to comply with
different emissions regulations (passenger car vs. truck), and without being
able to sell in all 50 states, it was uneconomic to import.

~~~
chopsueyar
Guess we'll have to use vegetable oil.

~~~
rdl
Unfortunately most of the common rail/high tech diesels are less compatible
with vegetable-derived fuels than the older tech diesels. You can run
biodiesel in some, but often not B100 -- but in the old diesels, you could run
straight vegetable oil.

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smachimo
I started and ran an import company for 7 years up in Canada,
importconcern.ca, and we imported cars and parts from Japan. All of the cars
were typically quite cheap at auction, except for one specific model of the
Hilux - the Pick-up model. The regular Hilux Surf would cost anywhere from
$4,000-$6,000 in total (very cheap), but the Hilux Pick-ups would run $10,000+
for one in somewhat decent condition.

We could never pinpoint exactly the reason for the higher Pick-up prices but
we long suspected it was likely due to their possible use in war environments.
And this article was interesting to read because it somewhat confirms our
suspicion. Thanks for the post!

~~~
coryl
I've seen ImportConcern from some car forums before. JDM Skylines in
particular have always been in demand, and everyone was looking/waiting for
R32/R33/R34 GTR's. Small world, glad to know your business is still up and
running!

~~~
smachimo
There are definitely tons of awesome cars coming out in the next few years. I
actually sold IC two summers ago to one of our good customers and he is the
one currently running the operation. Christian and I are now in the middle of
building websites and hoping for one to gain some traction. It's definitely
cool to see importconcern is a recognized company!

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dazzawazza
Further evidence from Top Gear

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVkedyQZfwQ>

~~~
anonymous245
Which Unix kernel is the analog of this truck? i.e., keeps chugging under
extreme CPU/memory/IO/interrupts/multithreading load?

~~~
whatusername
Not Unix. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NonStop>

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easyfrag
Just as interesting to me is how the maple leaf on the vehicle came to signal
high quality, a notion that then went viral to the point that people tattoo
themselves with it.

~~~
gaius
Why did the Canadians send the trucks in the first place? I assume it was when
the Taleban were fighting the Soviets for us.

~~~
run4yourlives
Hearts and minds winning or perhaps government building. Trucks are very
useful at putting a country back together.

~~~
drinian
Right, probably misdirected government aid.

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frbnh
It's interesting that Afghan (presumably Islamist) insurgents would have any
tatoos, considering that these are frowned upon in Islam.

EDIT: Not sure what's getting a negative reaction here. I was just pointing
out an apparent inconsistency in the story - interviewees/journalists are
known to embellish sometimes and they can get tripped up on little details.

~~~
michaelchisari
I've always gotten the impression that Afghan rebels, unless they're
explicitly Al Qaeda (in which case they're not usually from Afghanistan), are
more nationalists than Islamists.

~~~
sspencer
The now-defunct Northern Alliance were nationalists, led by Massoud. The
Taliban (and I suspect most of the other insurgent groups) are Islamists.

~~~
michaelchisari
To be clear, Afghanistan has a long history of people changing alliances very
quickly, depending on circumstance. Although groups may present themselves as
Islamist, that doesn't necessarily mean that their membership have a strong
ideological allegiance, and are simply involved as a matter of convenience.

This happens in a lot of conflicts, where people often side up based much more
on pragmatic concerns (protection, for instance) than ideology. Also evidenced
that when conflicts end, many move towards other political ideals, since the
advantages of operating under a particular umbrella no longer apply.

This may be why individuals within Islamist groups get tattoos of Canadian
flags: It's not really about establishing a Caliphate or enacting strict
Islamic rule for them.

------
ZeroGravitas
Strange that it's so prevalent globally and yet the US commander can still
claim that it's "a sign you’re dealing with Al Qaeda".

Similar to the story posted here a while ago about people being arrested as
terrorists on the evidence that they wore some totally generic casio
wristwatch.

Wikipedia's List of Guantanamo Bay detainees accused of possessing Casio
watches:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Guantanamo_Bay_detainee...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Guantanamo_Bay_detainees_accused_of_possessing_Casio_watches)

~~~
metageek
_Strange that it's so prevalent globally and yet the US commander can still
claim that it's "a sign you’re dealing with Al Qaeda"._

He was a little more careful than that: "It’s _a bit of_ a sign you’re dealing
with Al Qaeda _when you come across them in Pakistan._ ".

------
jscore
So instead of checking Edmunds for reliability, I should just check what the
insurgents drive on warzones. Seriously, those guys have no alterior motives,
they just need rock-hard reliability.

~~~
tnorthcutt
_ulterior_

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metageek
"When they dug it out of the rubble, all it took to get it running again was
hammers, wrenches, and WD-40."

OK, I'm impressed.

~~~
ErrantX
Even more impressive was when it got washed out to sea (possibly a later
episode?) and they rescued it full of sand - all it took was a clean and some
fiddling for the (clogged) engine to run again.

~~~
tnorthcutt
Or when they torched it (literally dropped a large, burning torch in the cab).

------
CountHackulus
It's an extremely popular and durable truck, and yet in North America we don't
get to have it. Blame it on people wanting bigger and comfier trucks instead
of real workhorses.

~~~
iouyhtfgyjuhk
There is an even more awsome version available in North AMerica/Canada. The
Mine car version is built for underground mine use.

Basically the original Hilux with sealed bearing everywhere, guards over
everything that can break when a rock drops on it, loads of power take-offs
and an interior that you can wash down with a hose.

It even has cup holders (although not a multi-screen DVD surround sound)

~~~
ajays
Care to give a link (or an easily searchable name) for this "Mine car version"
?

~~~
skorgu
Not 100% sure this is the same but it looks plausible:

[http://www.mobileparts.com/index.php?page=shop.browse&ca...](http://www.mobileparts.com/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=11&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1)

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smackfu
So is being on the top of a building being imploded really that bad? It's a
free fall for most of it, but the impact is cushioned a bit by the layers
below you collapsing when they hit the ground. And there is not much debris
that will hit you if you are on the top.

If they had parked it at the base, it would probably be flat.

~~~
sliverstorm
When was the last time _you_ tried dropping your car off a skyscraper?

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maxklein
The Hilux is also used by many oil companies in Africa, making it a status
symbol, and so often purchased by people who have money/power and want to show
off a bit.

So it's not just practical reasons, the Hilux is a status car. It's also the
best selling car in South Africa in total, so it's used as a normal vehicle,
not just for offroad.

~~~
binarycheese
Not ytue in West Africa. If you want to show status/money, get an Escalade or
a Land Cruiser.

I used a Hilux in West Cameroon on the muddy/mountain side roads in the rainy
season. It is very reliable.

Its predecessor - Toyota Stout, has no "Four-Wheel", yet on First Gear, it is
more stable climbing muddy hills in bad weather than an F350 or any Chevy its
size

~~~
maxklein
There are many status cars, just because a Hilux is one of them does not mean
an Escalade or Land Cruiser is not. And cameroun is not "West Africa"
according to the normal definition - it's central Africa.

And I doubt that those American cars you mention are very popular across West
Africa, usually Japanese cars or European cars are used.

~~~
binarycheese
West Cameroon (or Southern Cameroon) is West Africa. Cameroun (or La
Republique du Cameroun or East Cameroon) is Central Africa

------
mhb
The AK-47: 'The Gun' That Changed The Battlefield

Transcript of Terry Gross' interview with the author:

[http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?story...](http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=130493013)

~~~
nl
<http://www.jwz.org/doc/worse-is-better.html> seems relevant when talking
about the AK-47

~~~
eru
Why? The AK-47 seems quite sophisticated.

~~~
iouyhtfgyjuhk
It has zero accuracy - to reliably hit a target with an AK you have to be
close enough to beat them with the stock.

It can just about fire a full mag before over heating.

To go from safe to automatic fire the safety lever makes a noise that alerts
people in the next country

I'll stick with my SA80 thank you

~~~
Ras_
AK-47 is not one weapon. There are many different types of construction and
even more derivatives. Stamped (cheap) or milled (expensive, more accurate,
does withstand abuse like sitting on the gun) parts, it does make a
difference. Open sights and wood stock also indicate cheap construction.
Quality of ammunition also plays a big part in accuracy, but I'm not going
there.

Even the AK-47 derivatives have several generations. For example Finnish Rk 62
(current Finnish standard issue service rifle) was licensed to form a baseline
for what was to become IMI Galil.
<http://www.dnmsport.com/GALIL/historygalil.htm>

(Disassembly + assembly of Rk 62 takes about 40 seconds, it has five parts)

No modern army uses AK-47. So it shouldn't be compared to SA80.

The bottom line: AK-47 is simple and good enough to be effectively used by
even the most inexperienced soldiers. It also requires the least amount of
maintenance. Precision tools require more experience and always have drawbacks
(like gain accuracy - lose the ability to shoot effectively through walls).
Multi-purpose tools are compromises, of which AK-47 is the most battle proven.

------
spiffworks
This reminds me of what the Indian government did to the Yamaha RX-135. It is
probably the most sought after bike in India almost six years after its
production was stopped because its power-to-weight ratio was so high that
rebels in the north-east were using it as getaway vehicles(with a great amount
of success). Its pick-up is unmatched to this day, and has incredible resale
value.

------
wr1472
Single page link: [http://www.newsweek.com/2010/10/14/why-rebel-groups-love-
the...](http://www.newsweek.com/2010/10/14/why-rebel-groups-love-the-toyota-
hilux.html?GT1=43002#)

------
jaxonrice
Artic Trucks are busy building an awesome six wheeled variant of the Toyota
Hilux which will be driving to the South Pole in December 2010 as part of the
support team for a ski race. It sports 44 inch tires and a 400l fuel tank.

<http://www.arctictrucks.com/pages/4701>

------
reitzensteinm
See also: <http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html>

~~~
jchrisa
The Hilux is featured prominently in William Gibson's new book. This might be
a reason for the recent interest.

~~~
JohnFritzen
I have suspected "product placement" in his books before. Volkswagen Phaeton's
seemed a bit overly prominent in "Spook Country".

~~~
modoc
I think he's just fascinated by certain things. The Phaeton is an amazing car
and outside of VW's normal lineup. The Hilux is huge all over the world, and
virtually unheard of here. And yes, the Jankel armored version is pretty
impressive:) Having met him, I HIGHLY doubt he's paid for product placement. I
think he's just INTO things in a very geeky way. He focused on Curtas more
than Phaetons anyhow:)

~~~
m0nastic
Yeah, I concur. He's talked about it on Twitter (people have asked why he
mentions specific products) and he said that he just likes to include things
he finds interesting. I think for the current trilogy it actually works really
well, as it keeps everything grounded in reality.

------
quellhorst
I love the Toyota FJ cruiser! Its utilitarian like the HiLux but available in
the USA. The Tacoma and Tundra have interiors more like cars than a truck you
can wash out the inside with a water hose with.

It can carry a decent amount of ammo and guns.
[http://img.skitch.com/20101015-c25kibbi3nub61emqgb32mqpie.jp...](http://img.skitch.com/20101015-c25kibbi3nub61emqgb32mqpie.jpg)

~~~
hugh3
The FJ Cruiser is certainly built to look tough, and it has a bunch of near
utalitarian elements, but I'd want to wait 30 years and see how many are still
running before declaring that it actually is tough.

~~~
quellhorst
I had a Toyota Tacoma before the FJ that had over 250,000 miles on when I sold
it. So far I like the mechanical engineering more on this vehicle. There is
even more room around the engine so its easier to work on and because of how
the oil filter is placed, I can run full synthetic and change filters without
losing much oil.

With Toyota vehicles, the biggest thing to keep them running for a long time
is doing maintenance. If done properly, they will last for longer than you
want them.

Also the off-road capabilities are awesome. It has done well in the sand,
gravel, inclines, declines, snow, mud and water very well. Its exhilarating to
easily get through conditions where others got stuck.

~~~
Kadin
> because of how the oil filter is placed, I can run full synthetic and change
> filters without losing much oil.

How much oil do you have to drain to change the filter? And do you just pour
the drained oil back in or do you top it off with fresh oil?

How often do you keep running the same oil through, anyway?

Haven't heard of anyone doing that before; I'm intrigued.

~~~
quellhorst
Actually, I lose less than a 1/4 cup of oil with the filter change. It all
depends on how your engine layout is. For the FJ, more oil is lost from
burning than from the change.

------
Groxx
And people wonder why cars have so many fiddly knobs and other things that
break. You make a great, sturdy vehicle, everyone who needs it uses it, and
your vehicle gets heavily associated with violent groups.

~~~
bonzoesc
You make a car with intricate, soft-touch interior engineering and you'll get
a bigger profit margin from rich first-world people.

------
Poiesis
I own a somewhat related beast, a FJ60 Landcruiser. They hold up well.

It's well established that for every make of car, there is at least one forum
devoted to it. My favorite (also has Hilux content) is at
<http://forum.ih8mud.com>.

------
gursikh
Top Gear did a series of experiments a few years back to find out how
indestructible the Hilux really is: <http://goo.gl/WI7l>

See for yourselves.

------
br1
I read somewhere that the prime SUV in the arab world was the Mitsubishi
Pajero. The entire category was labeled "Pajero Jeep" in Pakistan. Of course,
I can't find the article now.

------
imasr
Top Gear made two episodes on the Indestructible Hilux (episodes five and six
of series 3). Worth watching.

------
wwkeyboard
I think the Brotherhood of Nod called them "Technicals" as well.

------
swah
Which language does Toyota Hilux drivers program in?

~~~
anabis
I am guessing Misra-C
[http://www.misra.org.uk/Activities/MISRAC/tabid/160/Default....](http://www.misra.org.uk/Activities/MISRAC/tabid/160/Default.aspx)

