
Why Safe Kids Are Becoming Fat Kids - pg
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121858701285435131.html?mod=loomia&loomia_si=t0:a16:g2:r1:c0.203618
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malkia
I grew up in Bulgaria. We now live in USA, and have a baby.

Well, I'm just wondering where the hell, he's going to play.

When I was a kid, we were playing soccer on the street, or in between the
blocks, throwing stones at other kids, fighting with plastic/wood swords,
driving self-mad woodcars, and everyday I was with a scratch, or I dunno what
else.

Even earlier when I was 4, me and my cousing, just an year older than me,
somehow decided that we need one of our toys that was left in the other part
of the city, so we just took off (I'm not sure what's the distance - but it
was in the 5km-10km range) and started walking... Everybody got scared,
family, etc. But it was fun story anyway...

This all was up till 8th grade, when I started programming, once that started,
I kind of lost interrest in playing outside, it was just the Apple ][, my
friend's Oric, and my other's friend PC.

Well I certainly want my kid to play for free, hopefully there are some parks
around, but the whole society is a bit too much afraid. Yes, I know - sexual
predators, kidnappers, yada, yada - it's a little 1984 that we us parents
create though, for our own safety (so our mind is always safe).

~~~
DanielBMarkham
Live in a more rural area. Buy a place with a big yard.

Cities don't seem very conducive to families. I think once you reach a certain
mass of people, the worry-warts take over and take all the fun out of
everything. In my experience, for what it's worth, more rural areas usually
foster more fun play for the kids. Plus more rural settings encourage kids to
use their imaginations to create fun play, which is sadly lacking today.

~~~
whacked_new
> worry-warts take over and take all the fun out of everything.

What an intriguing thing to say. Many people I've spoken to claim that all the
fun is in the city. I guess it's a kind of caged, packaged fun.

~~~
Goladus
How old are the people claiming all the fun is in the city?

If you are in your 20s, living in a city is where all the other people your
age are. Cities are where they work, and therefore where they play. That's
where you can find other people your age to play softball or soccer or even
dodgeball or 4-square. It's where you have a selection of quality, live
entertainment any weekend you want and go out dancing afterwards. It's where
you can make friends and stay active.

But the resulting traffic of adults doing things makes it difficult for
children to find room to play and explore. They can still do it, but it's more
dangerous and less rewarding. That's where the 'worry-warts' come in.

~~~
whacked_new
Ah, that's right. People I spoke to were early 20s. Nevertheless, it still
seems like the "pre-packaged fun" idea holds, as in, when they talked about
"fun" it meant "something pleasurable that involves minimal effort"... unless
you are actually playing softball in the city. My feeling is that location
makes little difference, as long as it's passive consumption.

If it's about kids, then, I would assume that the parents are actively
thinking about what activities are beneficial, and to a great extent,
encouraging the kids to participate actively themselves.

------
thedob
Let's say that a township little league wants to put its foot down and take
the stance that there's no way they'll ban sliding into bases, as that's not
baseball, and as a result it just isn't American.

The insurance company says that for the little league to get insurance it's
going to cost twice as much if they allow sliding. Hence the little league has
no choice but the pass on the cost of participation to the parents of the kids
in the league. Or...the kids won't ever know what it's like to slide into a
base. What an unfortunate situation.

The rising costs of insurance are preventing children from getting enough
exercise, and hence leading to health problems in the future costing the
insurance companies more money in health related payouts. If this is the case,
then they should be able to offset any short term liability payouts by the
long term gains of a healthier society.

~~~
Alex3917
One of my friends was in a full body cast for about four months because when
he was in sixth grade someone slid into him while playing baseball and broke
one of his legs and his pelvis. My little brother also broke his leg when
someone slid into him. Neither has any persisting problems, but a lot of kids
do. I have a friend whose legs are different lengths because she stepped in a
hole while playing soccer and fractured her growth plates.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with the article, but also realize that their
argument is a straw man. Of course playground equipment that has the potential
to give one a scrape or a bruise is good, assuming your kid is one of the ones
who gets a scrape or a bruise. If your kid is one of the ones who dies or
develops some lifelong problem then it's a different story.

~~~
noonespecial
Perhaps a lifelong problem like heart disease, diabetes, or stroke?

Seriously. How far do we take it? I knew a kid once who broke his little
finger playing "Speed Uno". Is that too dangerous? Maybe the kids should all
walk while playing soccer. There is a point somewhere, before the absurdity of
tort law forces us all into padded rooms, where it doesn't matter anyway. Our
bodies are safe but _we've all ceased to live._

~~~
drewcrawford
How far do "we" take it? Who are "we" to parent other people's kids?

Ultimately it's up to the parents of the individual kids to decide how far
_they_ take it with their individual kids. Parents have different parenting
philosophies. And that's good--experimentation and variety is what leads to
learning and understanding what works.

~~~
LogicHoleFlaw
_Ultimately it's up to the parents of the individual kids to decide how far
_they_ take it with their individual kids._

Unfortunately a lot of busybodies disagree with you.

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bootload
_"... Why Safe Kids Are Becoming Fat Kids ..."_

There was another thread on a similar theme that is important ...

 _"... 'Risk-taking increases the resilience of children,' said one. 'It helps
them make judgments,' said another. Some of those interviewed blamed the
'cotton wool' culture for the fact that today's children were playing it too
safe ..."_ ~ <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=267048>

I'd agree with that. One of the problems with not letting people try things is
they have no real gauge on what is dangerous and what is not. So they tend to
over react to things that are not dangerous and underestimate the danger when
it really exists. I added more here ~
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=268065>

My conclusions still hold ... _"There is a downside though. If you do make a
mistake there is a pretty good chance you will get injured. If you don't, you
will fail to build up the store of experiences that you can call on in the
future"_ ~ <http://flickr.com/photos/bootload/2730793708/>

~~~
stcredzero
Having overprotective parents growing up in the burbs sucks. You grow up not
feeling real. You grow up with this instinctive sense that you're missing
something vital. I didn't know I was allowed by the universe to do anything
that was messy, organic, or risky. I grew up with the idea that it wasn't for
me: That I'd never dance so that someone would want to dance with me, or play
music so someone would listen to me for a reason other than politeness, or
kiss a girl, or do anything that couldn't be explained entirely in rational
terms. I had to claim all that for myself, somehow in spite of my best
judgment that it wasn't meant for me. It's a good thing that hormones make
teenagers crazy. If I had been sane, I would've just quietly gone through all
the motions, and accepted the overwhelming evidence that fate hadn't meant for
me to really live.

Oh, wait, is this Hacker News or MySpace?

~~~
mechanical_fish
Incidentally, there's not a lot of evidence that the "hormones make teenagers
crazy" theory is anything but nonsense. What we do know is that modern
teenagers appear to "go crazy" -- for reasons that you seem to understand
perfectly well -- and that the polite way to talk about that is to claim that
it's "hormones", because the alternative explanation ("many young adults would
rather risk death than be isolated and imprisoned in a handful of 'safe'
suburban buildings") is way, way too candid.

~~~
cconstantine
It's hard to explain teenage craziness on hormones when other culture's teens
don't go crazy with hormones.

~~~
stcredzero
I always thought the craziness was just better channeled by other cultures.

~~~
cconstantine
That's possible, but part of the "craziness" is intentionally choosing things
that are destructive and anti-social.

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menloparkbum
The premise of the article is a bit far fetched. Kids aren't fat because our
culture is safety obsessed. They are fat because Grand Theft Auto is more fun
than little league or hanging from monkey bars. The riskier playground
equipment of yesteryear does not stand a chance against thousands of computer
games designed specifically to hold kids' attentions for long periods of time.

~~~
dhimes
_They are fat because Grand Theft Auto is more fun than little league_

especially when the coaches are so obsessed with winning that the best kids
always play the most fun and interesting positions, and the not-so-great kids
sit on the bench an unfair amount of time

------
edw519
_Some schools have banned tag. Broward County, Fla., banned running at recess.
Little Leagues forbid sliding into base. Some towns ban sledding. High diving
boards are history, and it's only a matter of time before all diving boards
disappear._

Is this sarcasm or is it real?

That's the scariest part, what surely would have once been a joke is now all
too real.

It looks like the inmates have won. They are now running the asylum.

~~~
Goladus
Little League is structured play to begin with. There's a lot that is fun,
valuable, and risky about baseball without worrying about a rule meant to
protect kids from trying things they aren't ready for yet-- breaking wrists
and ankles in the process. It's not stopping kids from learning to slide on
their own if they want.

That other stuff seems pretty dumb, though.

~~~
Goladus
Just a follow-up, the author should check his source. Little League actually
_requires_ sliding.

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thomasmallen
No, it's not because of a "safety craze," and the WSJ article never really
goes out of its way to prove its point. Kids are fat, unhealthy, etc. because
their parents feed them pure shit and are too lazy to move them away from the
TV or whatever other sedentary activity they're involved in. In moderation,
these things aren't very harmful, but if it's all you know, you're in trouble.

------
helveticaman
I always thought "proper-safety" was uttered with bullshitty intentions.

------
dfranke
It always pleases me when I read articles like this one. The mere fact that
the problem is being talked about with any regularity means that the pendulum
is likely to start swinging back toward sanity. (By the way, I grew up in
Broward County and attended the elementary school that pioneered banning
running during recess.)

------
dmfdmf
Scarier than the playground bans was this line from the article;

>There's only one solution. Someone on behalf of society >must be authorized
to make these choices. Courts must >honor those decisions. Otherwise, the
pious accusations >of safety fanatics, empowered by the nearly universal >fear
of being sued, will guarantee a cultural spiral >downwards toward the lowest
common denominator.

Someone "authorized to make these choices" that the courts can't overrule
(i.e. must "honor) is a pretty good definition of a dictator.

I suppose this guy is right that if individual rights and property rights are
off the table then dictatorship is the only answer. Let's start with a
playground dictator to get people used to the idea.

------
milwaukeegreeny
There is no such thing as being 100% safe. Gotta let them go out and do their
thing.

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micah63
Fun police......one time I was at an amusement park and the laser tag
employees would kick you out if you ran.....imagine teenagers walking after
each other with laser guns. It was pretty much the most ridiculous thing ever.

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dusklight
Hey this is an interesting article and the premise kinda sort maybe makes
sense to me, but the article itself makes the assertion that increased safety
is creating fatter kids without making even the lamest attempt at proving a
causal relationship. Correlation != causation, and in such an audacious claim
in particular, especially for an article published in WSJ, that is utterly
irresponsible.

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rglovejoy
Penn & Teller just did an episode of Bullshit! on a related subject, parents
who are paranoid that their kids might get abducted. See

[http://www.sho.com/site/ptbs/previous_episodes.do?episodeid=...](http://www.sho.com/site/ptbs/previous_episodes.do?episodeid=s6/stranger)

The episode is widely available over bittorrent as well.

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krupap
Excellent message - the safe path is the truly dangerous one. Challenge leads
to growth and growth staves off the true dangers of passivity and stagnation
that bog us in the deepest of physical and intellectual mires.

------
ibsulon
And thus, we have java?

(Well, and Haskell.)

