
The phone-makers bringing back buttons - ColinWright
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47364932
======
danielecook
We need more buttons. What is the deal with flat design these days? I cannot
figure out where to click. Have you used Windows 10 recently or a trendy
website lately? It's a disaster in terms of UX.

The same problem exists with hardware as well. I'm specifically thinking of
the kitchen, but I've encountered it in many places. I recently moved into an
apartment with 'modern' appliances have substituted buttons for flat surfaces
you press or knobs that are difficult and unintuitive. For the first time - I
had to read the manual to figure out how to work my refrigerator, range, and
microwave.

Buttons are intuitive, easy to use, and when they do not work it becomes
apparent that something is broken or faulty. Why are we getting rid of them?

~~~
ihuman
Steve Jobs answered this question back in 2007[0]

> Now, why do we need a revolutionary user interface. Here’s four smartphones,
> right? Motorola Q, the BlackBerry, Palm Treo, Nokia E62 — the usual
> suspects. And, what’s wrong with their user interfaces? Well, the problem
> with them is really sort of in the bottom 40 there. It’s this stuff right
> there. They all have these keyboards that are there whether or not you need
> them to be there. And they all have these control buttons that are fixed in
> plastic and are the same for every application. Well, every application
> wants a slightly different user interface, a slightly optimized set of
> buttons, just for it.

> And what happens if you think of a great idea six months from now? You can’t
> run around and add a button to these things. They’re already shipped. So
> what do you do? It doesn’t work because the buttons and the controls can’t
> change. They can’t change for each application, and they can’t change down
> the road if you think of another great idea you want to add to this product.

> Well, how do you solve this? Hmm. It turns out, we have solved it. We solved
> in computers 20 years ago. We solved it with a bit-mapped screen that could
> display anything we want. Put any user interface up. And a pointing device.
> We solved it with the mouse. We solved this problem. So how are we going to
> take this to a mobile device? What we’re going to do is get rid of all these
> buttons and just make a giant screen.

[0]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN4U5FqrOdQ&t=323](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN4U5FqrOdQ&t=323)

~~~
Skunkleton
That's cool, but I think that most people here agree that mice are a pretty
terrible method of interfacing with a computer. Every time you use a mouse,
you have to re-orient your self to the state of the mouse (its current
location and its use within a given application). That is why we spend so much
time optimizing applications for use with a fixed controller (a keyboard).

A touch screen is a bit better than a mouse for lots of stuff and it preserves
the discoverability of a mouse-based UI. Unfortunately it retains the
drawbacks of a mouse based ui. Worse is that there is no fixed controller on a
smartphone that might allow faster interaction w/ apps. This is where I think
we are getting in trouble. In a traditional computer setup, you interact with
the mouse when you are learning new software, and eventually transition to
using a keyboard more and more. With touch based stuff, it seems like when an
app is first released it has a simple, discoverable UI. But over time, as
people become comfortable w/ the app, its UI becomes less approachable to suit
the needs of more expert users and new users are left behind (snapchat for
example).

In my opinion a touch screen is fine for consumptive devices where many
different UI elements are required and input is light. Creative devices should
have a fixed controller like a keyboard, joystick, etc.

~~~
rasz
Want to play an FPS game against me? you will use any combination of keyboard,
joystick, touch screen you prefer.

~~~
majewsky
Better stock up on mice to get through all the FPS games you have to play
during a normal workday.

~~~
rasz
Jokes on you, I was an Esports "athlete" (World of Tanks)! :P

------
781
Bold prediction: it will be a total flop. A tiny minority of people want a
keyboard at the price of a bulky device

~~~
Sohcahtoa82
Not that bold of a prediction.

Motorola was leading the way with Android-based phones with physical QWERTY
keyboards, but they stopped making them in 2012, with the Droid 4 being the
last one. I had one and I loved it!

The sad thing is, I saw polls at the time showing over 50% of smartphone users
said they wanted a physical keyboard, yet most people hadn't even HEARD of the
Droid 4. It sold poorly and was the signal that people didn't actually want
physical keyboards, they just thought they did.

~~~
ocdtrekkie
The only thing that killed the Droid line was Google buying Motorola. A Droid
5 was in development right up until Google bought it and decided that everyone
should have the same form factor of phone. You can find pictures of the 5
online.

~~~
Sohcahtoa82
They still produced phones with the Droid name (I replaced my Droid 4 with the
Droid Turbo), but they lost the keyboard.

And IMO, Google failed to market the Droid phones. In a world where everyone's
crying for better battery life and stronger screens, the Droid Turbo came out
with a whopping 3900 mAh battery when everyone else was in the 2000-2,500 mAh
range, and a screen that was damn near indestructible, probably the top two
most asked for features from a phone...yet nobody ever heard of it. Meanwhile
people flock to iPhones and Galaxy phones which would crack their screens if
you sneezed.

~~~
ocdtrekkie
By "killed the Droid line", I was referring specifically to the keyboard
slider line Droid/Droid 2/Droid 3/Droid 4. And I think that happened almost
solely because Google did not like the keyboard slider form factor.

A surprisingly large contingent of consumers liked keyboard sliders too.
Silicon Valley folks pretend that users didn't want them, but the truth was
that at the time, phone technology was moving much faster, and keyboard
sliders usually came out running a year older chipset, and were the last to
see software updates. People didn't want to give up their keyboard sliders,
but the OEMs just weren't serving the market.

------
mancerayder
I used to be able to type in a lightning-fast way, while looking ahead (not
down!) and walking quickly, on the Sidekick. I had every Sidekick model
including a big bag of parts since, well, the older ones weren't super
reliable. That said, I'd give anything for that experience again. In fact, as
I typed this on an Android phone, I probably hit backspace at LEAST 50 times,
corrected about 10 words due to typos (wprds showed up, with words as an
option, etc.)

The size of my thumb covers about 8 keys.

The lack of physical keys may be amazing from a UI perspective, but for people
who type quickly it absolutely sucks.

What's a shame is there's no choice.

~~~
noir_lord
The one that gets me is that there isn't an easy way to get to the center of a
word, you always miss then tap again but if you are too quick it thinks you
want to select and bleh, it's just unpleasant, I'd happily give up the
predictive word bar on Android for arrows and cut paste buttons.

~~~
roxil
This annoyed me too, until recently. I found the solution to this on my phone.
It's a moto G with a physical volume button on the side. It has Lineage OS on
it and I found this: settings -> buttons -> Volume buttons -> Keyboard cursor
control (Volume up/down moves cursor left/right). I can now easily control
moving the cursor one char left/right and am slightly more comfortable typing
on my phone.

------
Zelphyr
They'll never do so but I would love it if Apple would add a physical sliding
keyboard like the Pro 1. I really really dislike the virtual keyboard, always
have. It's so inaccurate. Granted that's because I'm a touch-typer and
probably move too fast.

------
thedaemon
Please do this. Slide out keyboards are really something I miss. The touch
screen keyboard never respond properly and I have so many typos, the
autocorrect suggest things that aren't even words... with a qwerty keyboard
99% of those issue are null and void.

------
idlemind
You can learn to type very quickly on a touchscreen keyboard and work within
and be helped by the autocorrect. If you’re typing a couple of sentences why
does it even matter that you’re not up to full keyboard typing speed? Sure, if
you’re typing an essay, but why would you be doing that on your phone anyway?

~~~
dingaling
For some peiple their phone is tgeit obly ximouting sevice, so it isoften
necessary to type 'an essay'.

Combuninh autocotrection with a ohyscial keyboatd wouuld be verybpowerful and
would probavly have avoidwd most of the wrrors I made whilat typing this in a
touchscreen keyboard.

\-- I deliberately disabled autocorrection for that post. I am a keyboard
touch-typist so hopefully that shows how inefficient and error-prone are soft-
keyboards.

Basically, removing physical keyboards makes the manufacturers' job easier by
outsourcing a little bit of inefficiency onto every user every time they type.
We're paying for it with seconds of our lives.

~~~
lorenzhs
That’s misleading and you know it. Nobody suggested that we type without
autocorrect. What the GP said is that you can learn to type efficiently
without looking on a touch screen keyboard because autocorrect is good enough.
Yeah, I had a Motorola Milestone (EU version of the droid) and I could type
without looking. It was pretty nice being able to type that way. But in no way
would I want to go back to such a brick in my pocket.

~~~
ams6110
I haven't done any formal experiments but it sure feels like autocorrect hurts
newly as much as it helps. I'm constantly having to stop and retire words that
it gets wiring.

------
mvexel
I quite like the design philosophy behind the Punkt phones. It looks like the
MP01 is 2G only which would disqualify it for U.S. use. For the MP02 they say

> "Please note that some mobile phone service providers in the USA have not
> yet finished registering the MP02 for their networks.Because of this, some
> carriers currently require users to temporarily disable VoLTE on the MP02
> (use 4G or 3G calling instead), and Verizon's network is currently unable to
> accept the MP02 at all. (This is an admin issue, not a technology issue.)"

Anyone who has actually used this device in the U.S. who can share experience?
It sounds like you would still be able to use it as an LTE hotspot, but for
voice you'd fall back to 4/3G.

------
cmroanirgo
When the first smartphones were released with a distinct lack of buttons, I
was dismayed mainly because you needed to look at your phone before you could
answer it. I just assumed that somewhere, someone would be developing a
tactile feedback system so that you could feel buttons on the screen. I'm
still waiting for that day...

For all that, I'm using swipe to write this message, faster than I could on a
mini qwerty. I don't see this article's development as, _development_.

------
beezischillin
I aleays loved these qwerty phones. Ever since I had an Xperia X1 I was hoping
for a more modern tske on something like thst with s similar design, a
metallic all-screen keyboard slider with something more modern than Windows
Mobile 6.

Here’s hoping for at least a small-scale trend of these devices this year.

------
diggernet
Five row keyboard, slide-tilt screen, and two-stage camera button? If that
thing has anywhere near the build quality of its Nokia inspiration, I can't
throw my money at them fast enough.

------
dovetailcode
Is there a case that has a slide-out mini bluetooth keyboard?

Maybe Blackberry could make one, their keyboards were awesome. I might even
pay $50-100 for some such thing if it is designed right.

~~~
frosted-flakes
You could try one of the BlackBerries with an integrated keyboard, not slide-
out. The Key2 is pretty great, though you do lost a little screen real estate.
The keyboard is also touch sensitive, so you can choose predictions and move
the cursor with it, as well as scroll the page. I like the backspace word
gesture (swipe left across the keyboard) on my Key1.

------
rbanffy
BlackBerry phones have buttons and their software is quite nice.

~~~
frosted-flakes
BB phones use almost stock Android, if anyone's wondering.

~~~
Eiriksmal
There's currently a $10K bounty to crack BlackBerry's Android protections so
you can root the phone. It's been ~3 years and no one's managed it yet...

Fortunately, there's minimal Google presence on the phone. The native
BlackBerry apps have worked great. The camera on the KeyOne even has fully
manual controls--focus distance and everything.

------
ilovetux
I hope we do see some of these models come back. I know that it will probably
be a small market segment, but I really liked my Samsung captivate glide.

------
hinkley
Here's what I'd rather have: Two independent devices that can be yolked
together for use. Physically, metaphorically, or both.

The keyboard section on some of those devices is almost as big as the phone,
and those phones don't look much thinner than current generation phones do.

Let me use two phones or a phone and a tablet or a phone and a TV. Give me
something that is at least the sum of its parts.

~~~
theoh
Can anything every be (physically) less than the sum of its parts? In terms of
mass or volume, for example?

If you're saying "an accessory that only works as an accessory is sometimes
just dead weight (when you're not using it)" then I think you're trying to
overturn a lot of precedent in how devices have been made, since long before
digital times.

~~~
asavadatti
Things that fit together can be less than the sum of their parts. A phone case
and a phone can take up more space individually but fit together and be
compact.

~~~
theoh
That's true if one considers the convex hulls of the two objects, but not if
one sticks to thinking strictly about their volume.

------
viliam_jobko
As a long-time owner of HTC TyTN II and Sony Xperia Pro, both with sliding
keyboard which I absolutely loved, I don't think we need them anymore. Back
then, it made sense. Displays were smaller and less accurate. But now with
larger displays and smarter autocompletes, I'm not willing to trade sliding
keyboard for additional weight and higher price.

------
furgooswft13
The HTC Tilt 2 is still my favorite phone ever. Superb keyboard and the
slide/tilt mechanism was rock solid and quite pleasing to use too. WinMo,
being as hackable as it was, allowed me to remap keys at will, which made it a
great mini ssh device.

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kadendogthing
I'm just gonna say it. The G1 was the best phone I've used. Not had, _used_.

------
voltagex_
The article says the prototype was inspired by the "Nokia 950" \- I'm assuming
they mean N950? I had two N900s - I hope the keyboard is far more robust than
that as the labels on the keys wore off in weeks / months.

------
northwest65
My first smart phones something like 15 years ago had these, and I would love
to have that functionality back without a doubt.

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ProAm
I would love a slider keyboard phone again.

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ocdtrekkie
I'd buy a phone with a horizontal slider so hard, if it wasn't running
Android. As badly as I'd like to have a proper successor to my Droid 4, that
other trait makes this a problematic sell for me. :/

~~~
mook
Would you actually buy it if it ran _anything_ other than Android (say,
somebody somehow managed to ship a new phone running Symbian)? Or do you
actually have a preferred OS?

Actually just curious to see if you're specifically avoiding Android (in which
case I'd be a bit curious about specific reasons), or if you prefer something
like iOS. (Both seem like valid positions for me)

~~~
ocdtrekkie
I'm currently hanging onto a Windows Mobile phone, though support ends in
December, so I have to start looking for a replacement. I once swore I'd never
own an iPhone, but if nothing else shows up, I guess I'll have to. My hope is
that the Librem 5 launches on time and is capable of supporting a Verizon
compatible radio (the radio is supposed to be replaceable).

My primary interest is security and privacy, so Android fails out entirely as
an option. I also expect my phone to have current and regular security
updates, so the operating system must be something presently supported.

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wetpaws
History is going in circles

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moocowtruck
nope nope nope no thanks

