
K-Cup creator John Sylvan regrets inventing Keurig coffee pod system - camtarn
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/k-cup-creator-john-sylvan-regrets-inventing-keurig-coffee-pod-system-1.2982660
======
maxxxxx
The K-cup should get an award for worst invention of the last few decades.
They turned making coffee from a process with easily compostable output into a
massive trash production.

Business-wise they are genius though. Take something and make it ten times as
expensive.

~~~
dpflan
From the article: "According to a wildly popular ad campaign against the
product earlier this year, there are so many discarded K-Cups that if you
lined them up it would be enough to circle the earth more than 10 times — and
that's just from one year's worth of coffee pods."

Yes. I think the incentives to have a sustainable/ethical design in the
context of reducing waste or recycling waste would be a good incentive for
products/service/companies like this. Could there be a subsidy for companies
that take the time to manage their products/design/supply-chain to combat
wastefulness/negative externalities of using the product/service?

For example, Apple appears to be taking the environmental impact of their
business seriously:

> [https://www.apple.com/environment/](https://www.apple.com/environment/)

~~~
SllX
Honestly the only effective potential remedy I see is to probably tax
producers for their wasteful byproducts. Tax Keurig the corporation a dime for
every one of those cups, and I don’t buy the things but figure a box comes in
increments of a half dozen, so we’re talking between 60¢ to an additional
$2.40 a box. Now theoretically the cup and the seal are separate components as
far as a recycler is concerned, so maybe they should be charged separately for
both the lid and the cup, but at least the coffee itself is compostable so
there is no need to also charge for that, but you can go ahead and throw an
additional dime on for the box itself and any other cardboard components that
act as a spacer inside the box, and maybe a dime on for the tape. Charge a
quarter for any non-recycleable components.

Then: nix the tax for any corporation willing to take back their own wasteful
byproducts at their own cost _and_ recycle them.

Extreme? Oh yes, but also a great way to align a corporations incentives, and
anything else is most likely a half measure that makes the problem worse by
preventing an effective measure from being put in place.

~~~
nikanj
The turtle choking to a Keurig cup in the Pacific doesn't really care that the
cup had an additional tax on it.

In general, we should stop making waste just for the sake of appearing more
sophisticated. Keurig has very successfully targeted the same people who
insist on bottled water, even though tap water is higher quality and cheaper.

I don't know what's wrong with the basic human wiring, but we really seem to
have a glitch that makes us equate excessive consumption with higher
socioeconomic class. See also: giant SUVs, etc, etc.

~~~
bryanlarsen
The turtle cares because a pigouvian tax is the most effective means of
keeping that cup out of the ocean in the first place.

You can't ban stuff because bans would be full of loopholes for "necessary"
usage.

You can't just appeal to people's better nature because humans are humans.

~~~
doctorpangloss
> You can't just appeal to people's better nature because humans are humans.

You must live in the alternate universe where everyone litters.

No, some people just don't litter. Whole cities where people don't litter!
Sometimes, there is a clear protagonist and antagonist.

As an aside: an* effective means of keeping that cup out of the ocean is also
to buy all the cups and not use them. Pretty much the exact OPPOSITE of a
"pigouvian tax." Isn't that crazy?

What if we bought all the oil and didn't burn it? What if we buy all the land
it's under? Or more realistically, what if I bought carbon credits in cap and
trade and didn't use them?

Greg Mankiw has doomed a generation to inside-the-box policy with his inane
textbook.

~~~
rlucas
Bans can work and Pigouvian taxation can work. Horses for courses.

In Seattle we've banned the cheap plastic bags that blow around and get stuck
in trees. There are many, many fewer tree-stuck-plastic-bag-ghosts to be seen
around now. We've also put a mandatory 5c fee (not a tax, sadly) on paper
bags; there are many, many more people bringing reusable bags to the
supermarket.

(Ignores, of course, whether these reusable bags are better for the
environment holistically -- having lots of yuppies buying synthetic shopping
bags made in China and shipped to Amazon DCs, then having them individually
shipped out in Prime boxes, etc. before being used is probably worse than just
having pulp grown in America made into bags trucked en masse to the grocery
and generally recycled or composted.)

Regarding carbon credits -- soon that will be not only feasible but tokenized
and sub-divisible. See [http://sparkchange.io/](http://sparkchange.io/)

------
eezurr
It should be noted that John quit the company in 1997 and sold his idea for
$50,000; so him speaking quite openly about his thoughts make sense.

Off topic: I think we've tipped over to the other side of the
"convenience/humanity" pyramid. We climbed to the top some years ago where the
lack of excess convenience gave us the opportunity to make things our selves
and interact with other people face to face (which I think are very important
human qualities) while being comfortable. Now we are sliding down the
convenience side of the pyramid, unable to grasp what is important and
fundamental. We are literally snowballing (ie obesity epidemic).

Someone made a comment a few weeks ago from the Ansel Adams LA photos HN post,
in regards to how thin people were back then, that really stuck out to me:
there have been hundreds of small improvements that probably all add up
together in terms of calories saved. e.g. power steering, escalators,
elevators, transportation replacing walking or biking, etc.

Back to the coffee pods: I don't get why people like to spend money on
inferior experiences. My philosophy is if you're spending money on something
you wont enjoy, you're wasting your money and your time. I'd rather spend more
on something that provides some form of fulfillment. I cant blame those who
don't have the opportunity to have something better.

~~~
slfnflctd
It's absolutely 100% about speed for me. There is no faster way for me to get
my coffee fix any way you cut it, and when I'm under major time pressure I
appreciate it a great deal. With some of them the taste is a bit better than
others, but there's really no getting around the fact that it's significantly
worse than with other brewing methods (on top of being expensive and
wasteful). Swiftness is the whole deal.

On a more leisurely day, I will break out the good beans, the grinder and the
french press. But all that takes noticeably more time and energy, and when
those are in short supply I tremendously value a lightning-quick alternative.

~~~
rorykoehler
How often are you under major time pressure? If it's more than a handful of
times a year I would focus on fixing that rather than patching over it with
bullshit machines that produce inferior product and a mountain of pollution.

------
sxates
Surprised there's no mention of Nespresso's system, which uses aluminum pods
that are recyclable. The 'pod per cup' system is very convenient, but I cringe
at all the waste of the Keurig k-cups. Nespresso sold me though on their
recycling program (fill a bag with the used pods and mail it to them for
free).

~~~
noja
> Nespresso sold me though on their recycling program

I don't get this. If this is important to you, why not use a system that
didn't _require_ recycling in the first place?

~~~
sxates
I started with a 'real' espresso machine and bean grinder. The process for
making a cappuccino in the morning was as follows:

1\. Turn on the espresso boiler and allow it to warm up for 20-30 minutes. 2\.
Grind beans at the correct setting, then tamp them into the wand with just the
right amount of pressure 3\. Insert wand into machine, turn it on, and
perfectly time the pour 4\. Dispose of hot coffee grinds, rinse, brush and
clean the wand. 5\. Pour milk into frothing cup and steam for 60+ seconds or
until optimal temperature is reached while ensuring that the steam properly
turns the milk to achieve desired froth. 6\. Combine milk and espresso in cup
7\. Clean espresso shot cup, clean milk frothing cup, clean up errant coffee
grounds, remember to turn off machines.

The process for making a cappuccino with the Nespresso machine:

1\. Pour milk into frother, press button. 2\. Insert pod, press button. It
will finish within about 20 seconds, and a few seconds after that the milk
will also be done. 3\. Pour frothed milk into the cup that the espresso was
dispensed into. 4\. Rinse milk frother.

I had time for the full machine routine on a Saturday morning, but not before
work.

~~~
peterwwillis
As long as you get your cappuccino in 30 seconds every morning, what's a
little ecological damage?

~~~
meesles
This comes of pretty judge-y. Take a moment to consider all the waste you also
produce each day.

Not to mention you're making the problem worse by making people defensive
about their decisions, which just makes them go deeper and be unwilling to
compromise. Try to solve the problem instead grand-standing.

~~~
emj
I hope that no one identifies with those machines so much that they can't take
valid criticism of what that thing leads to. Sure incorporating of objects
into ones self image is common, but I do not think we can solve it by tip
toeing around the issue. Yes you are affecting the climate and your local
environment by all your actions, quite a lot and this particular thing is
horrible.

~~~
smileybarry
There's a difference between acknowledging the problem and tackling it, versus
cynically shaming the person. ("well if you get your cup in 30 seconds, I
guess destroying the planet is fine") That just makes it into a personal
attack, regardless of being a casual user or a Nespresso devotee.

------
cm2012
Physical waste is not a real issue. A landfill 10 miles square and 250 ft deep
could hold all of the US's waste for the next hundred years. Twenty of these
(Which could fit without people taking notice in any rural area) can hold the
whole world's garbage for next 100 years.

~~~
mbrameld
If physical waste is not a real issue, why do I see garbage on the ground? Why
is there tons of plastic in our oceans? I think there's more to the issue of
physical waste than whether or not we can dig a hole big enough for it all.

~~~
cm2012
Litter is a whole other issue, which kpods also do not really contribute to.

~~~
peterwwillis
"We totally have the space to bury this plastic in the ground. Killing
wildlife and destroying habitats is a whole other issue. The carbon and
ecological cost of producing massive amounts of single-use petrochemical
products is a whole other issue. Chemicals leaking into the water supply is a
whole other issue. Microplastics found in humans, animals and processed foods
is a whole other issue."

We're not concerned about whether we can bury it in the ground.

~~~
marcosdumay
> The carbon and ecological cost of producing massive amounts of single-use
> petrochemical products is a whole other issue.

You should take a calm look into the carbon and ecological cost of producing
and reusing the reusable equivalents of those single-use products.

Besides... If you have any idea on how to make it possible that people not dig
every gram of fossil fuels available and use it for something (that something
being a piece of plastic buried somewhere being way better than carbon dioxide
at the atmosphere), please say so, because natural gas based plastics aren't a
world-ending problem, but the coal mining endgame is.

------
nukemandan
Why is this so much of an issue? I agree that is it a more wasteful way to do
coffee than other machines, but not significantly so. Why is everyone so up-
in-arms about this vs any other single serve item, like water bottles, soda,
and tea/coffee cans? The shipping costs alone for moving what amounts to
mostly water and all the packaging make pods look innocent or better.

~~~
bhandziuk
Those things are all dumb, too. Coffee pods are just so easy to replace. Just
make coffee like normal.

~~~
aequitas
It's a little more nuanced compared to water bottles. Coffee powder needs to
be kept in a sealed container to be 'fresh' (apart from expiry). So if you
don't drink coffee often, pads could be a more sensible choice.

~~~
culot
> Coffee powder needs to be kept in a sealed container to be 'fresh'

There's no shortage of those sealed containers. If someone has a Keurig
machine, and is using those pods, then they also have a refrigerator and are
able to obtain containers, which are inexpensive.

There is no real argument for keurig cups other than convenience.

Is that convenience worth all of the waste? Should people be able to choose to
generate such waste for something so trivial? Should be firms be allowed to
sell waste-generators like Keurig? If Keurig is not responsible for the
mountains of damage done, and the consumers are not responsible, then where
does the buck stop?

This area is ripe for regulation and well overdue.

~~~
nukemandan
>There is no real argument for keurig cups other than convenience.

This is true at anything that one purchases - you outsource the effort for a
fee. All single serve items are the same or worse as the keurig in terms of
waste that makes things easy.

> Should people be able to choose to generate such waste for something so
> trivial?

Yes.

>If Keurig is not responsible for the mountains of damage done, and the
consumers are not responsible, then where does the buck stop?

Customers vote with their dollars. They are not to blame for the waste - but
not free of responsibility. Want to make change? Stand up for what you believe
and get others to join you. Don't _make_ anyone do anything by force
(regulation).

------
WaltPurvis
It is possible to use the Keurig system with your own coffee grounds and a
non-disposable cup:

E.g., [https://amzn.to/2LraTIB](https://amzn.to/2LraTIB) or
[https://amzn.to/2RcREHQ](https://amzn.to/2RcREHQ)

That gives you _most_ of the convenience of a Keurig without the environmental
impact.

~~~
derimagia
I usually use a compostable single-use kcup:
[http://a.co/d/4eWshVr](http://a.co/d/4eWshVr)

Can usually find them for about $10 for that size box at my local grocery
store.

~~~
reaperducer
I used to use these, but they're no longer available in my region. They were
on heavy discount for a few days everywhere so I scooped them up, assuming
they were being discontinued.

------
pastor_elm
The k-cup is genius. There are 5 people over your house. They can all make a
cup of coffee whenever they want. They want more? Just make another cup. They
can do it themselves!

~~~
nostrebored
This is so lazy -- coffee is so easy to make, why add the trash?

~~~
kennu
Espresso is IMHO not so convenient to make. You need to prepare every portion
separately, filling the filter holder correctly each time etc. This is why I
personally switched from a traditional espresso machine to capsules. I still
make basic filtered coffee with a normal coffee maker though.

~~~
Canadauni
Yes but Keurig isn't really espresso, it is similar to traditional brewed
coffee just with some alternative flavor choices.

~~~
kennu
I guess Keurig is different from the espresso capsule machines. My machine is
a locally licensed K-Fee compatible device and there are both brewed coffee
and espresso capsules available. The brewed coffee capsules have some kind of
mechanism that prevents the usual espresso crema from forming (I suppose by
depressurising the water flow).

------
amatecha
I used to make coffee with Aeropress every time, but finally got a cheap
espresso machine (Breville Cafe Roma) and a coffee bean grinder (De'Longhi
Dedica). Got a deal on both.

OK, so it's a bit more work than just slapping in a [pod] and pressing a
button, but it's totally worth it and the only "waste" is the bit of coffee
grinds. No plastic, no metal. Probably the total cost of ownership over the
~6mo since I bought the espresso machine is likely actually less than if I had
bought a Keurig or Nespresso machine and been paying for the pods this whole
time. Plus you can't really beat legit espresso and steamed milk. :)

That said, the Aeropress is always on hand for visiting elsewhere, road trips
etc. Definitely the best alternative to a full-on espresso machine IMO.

~~~
keithpeter
Try a mokapot. Much lower capital cost and just as resource light. Not so much
_crema_ though I have to admit.

~~~
c0nsumer
I use an Aeropress daily and have a Moka. The biggest downsides to the Moka
are time to heat up (on my gas stove), and pretty much needing to wait for it
to cool down before cleaning it.

It might be a little faster with an electric stove, but the cleaning would
still be a big hassle. I prefer to clean up my coffee making stuff in the
morning after making coffee, before heading out the door for work.

------
jpmoyn
I remembered this headline from years ago. The article is from 2015, does that
warrant you adding a year to the title?

~~~
huangc10
this

------
koboll
K-cups are recyclable, it's just that no one does it because it's a pain in
the ass to do at scale. You have to awkwardly peel back the top foil, dump the
grounds, and then recycle the cup. Who at the office wants to sit there and do
that for 20 cups in a row whenever the cup catcher fills up?

What we need is some sort of cup recycler hardware that takes the work out of
the annoying part. Put the used cup upside down, and a device scrapes the lid
off and vaccuums the grounds into a compost holder, then you chuck the plastic
into the recycle bin. That would instantly resolve the k-cup waste situation
at my office.

~~~
dragontamer
> K-cups are recyclable, it's just that no one does it because it's a pain in
> the ass to do at scale. You have to awkwardly peel back the top foil, dump
> the grounds, and then recycle the cup. Who at the office wants to sit there
> and do that for 20 cups in a row whenever the cup catcher fills up?

I do believe this is a myth.

K-Cups plastic falls into plastic-resin code #7: "Other plastic". Which means
its the hardest kind of plastic to recycle.

IIRC, #1 Plastic (PETE) is easiest to recycle, but sucks at high temperatures.
#5 Plastic (PP aka Polypropylene) is also easy to recycle, but I'm not sure if
it'd stand boiling-point of water.

Most recycling plants IIRC will throw away Resin code #6 or #7, due to their
difficulty to recycle. Some plants can recycle #6 or #7, but its not something
you can count on.

~~~
undersuit
OK, but the other parts in the K-cup also need to be thrown away too because
of this part?

~~~
dragontamer
Depends on the plant. I'm no recycling expert, but you have to remember that
recycling plants are a combination of computer and human labor.

Computers handle a lot of stuff easily: metals can be easily separated with
magnets. Light plastics are separated with blowers, and some plastics can be
detected with high-tech infrared / UV scanners.

So when I say "easy to recycle", I'm talking about Aluminum (non-magnetic but
metal, so easy to sort automatically) or plastic bags (air-blowers catch
these).

Everything else is dug around by hand by humans. If the humans can't figure it
out, they throw it away immediately. Depending on the location, sometimes even
Pizza boxes are thrown into the landfill by humans.

Pizza Box is one of those things that's highly localized. You can't put a
Pizza Box into a paper-recycling plant: the oils contaminate the mix. But you
can shred a Pizza Box into a compost bin.

IIRC, some areas only have paper-plants (so Pizza Boxes are thrown away
there). So you gotta check with your local laws, regulations, and local plants
to know for sure.

EDIT: It seems like some areas can't handle plastic bags. It really depends.

\---------

For something like a K-Cup: it contains so little coffee that I find it
unlikely that its worth the human's time to scoop out the coffee grounds. Its
probably easier for the humans to throw a K-Cup away rather than manually
labor in the recycling mix.

~~~
cannonedhamster
If you have a Walmart nearby, there's a good chance you've got a place to
recycle plastic bags. They generate a ton of them and as part of their
greenwashing they usually have recycling stations available for the plastic
bags.

[https://www.news-
leader.com/story/news/local/ozarks/2018/05/...](https://www.news-
leader.com/story/news/local/ozarks/2018/05/06/how-can-walmart-accept-plastic-
bags-recycling-when-recycling-centers-wont/573097002/)

------
scrumper
My wife insisted we buy one of those dreadful machines for our kitchen. I
relented only when I found little metal reusable k cups on Amazon. Now we
grind a few beans and they go in the pod. It’s ok, better in a cafetiere
though. Never bought a single actual keurig pod and she’s happy.

~~~
bhandziuk
I don't get it. Why not just brew some coffee with any other machine then?
What's the Keurig bring to the table?

~~~
scrumper
She thinks it's easier than dealing with a cafetiere or a percolator for a
single cup. It kind of is.

------
TarpitCarnivore
While instant coffee has a negative stigma I'm happy to see the speciality
community stepping into this space as a way to possibly move people away from
these machines. While the cost value is still not great (~$4 a cup) it's far
less waste and the coffee (to me) is much better. There's currently three
companies leading on this: Sudden, Swift Cup, and Voila. James Hoffman did a
video on the three and discussed their pros/cons
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuLWwZiIcl0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuLWwZiIcl0)).

I've tried all three at various points in their tenure and agree with Jim's
points in the video.

* Sudden was the first to make the splash and for a while I was subscribed to them, but I never felt like the coffee tasted right.

* Voila is my preferred option right now because they offer a good variety of roasters as well as feel the most consistent in taste.

* Swift has had some of the best tasting ones, but it's slightly less consistent than Voila for me. Their best one I've had is the partnership offering they have with ReAnimator.

~~~
oftenwrong
K-cup provides people with the illusion that they are getting "real" coffee.
Instant provides no such illusion, hence its stigma. K-cup coffee is awful,
but people happily drink it. Instant coffee can actually be much better, yet
people go "BLECH!" if you even mention it.

------
umvi
Every company wants in on this business model. Even tech companies. Adobe has
already moved to the "you need to buy an adobe pod once per month in order to
keep using Photoshop"

------
zeveb
I don't understand why people have them in their homes (just make a pot of
coffee, folks!), but I do understand why they have been so incredibly
successful in offices: they are clean & convenient, and don't require everyone
to agree on the same coffee at the same time. Each person can brew a cup as he
wants one, there are no grounds to clean up, and a cup of fresh-brewed Keurig
coffee — while _nowhere_ near as good as good coffee — is _far_ better than
urn coffee which has been simmering for three hours.

For offices, Keurig machines are a Godsend. For homes, though, I just don't
get it.

------
lurkaround
I don't even think K-Cup coffee is any good but I suppose that's a personal
preference statement. Still, I prefer the paper filter ones. And even so, is
it not more feasible to just brew a big pot of coffee that's "actually" good
for the whole office?

At home I either do a French press or pour over with a reusable stainless
steel filter then make a coffee scrub with the used grounds.

------
kup0
I've re-purposed my Keurig into a hot-water dispenser (and occasional
refillable-k-cup coffee dispenser). It works well for me for that purpose.

Buying the actual K-Cups is very expensive and wasteful. Though in a pinch or
in certain circumstances (workplace, etc) I'll keep a few handy that I got on
sale or cheaper in bulk.

------
mmcclellan
Are these really simpler than an electric kettle and a Hario v60?

------
protomyth
On a weird side note, used coffee grounds are sometimes used to bleach buffalo
skulls white. So the art folks have been collecting k-cups to get the grounds
which has greater participation than the old style coffee pots. I guess its
convenient on both ends of the product cycle.

------
mr_tristan
I've learned that Keurig is really trying to get more municipalities to even
recycle at all, because so few can accept recyclable resources, even the #5
polypropylene that they make their recyclable cups out of. Compostable cups
are not really realistic as well, since so few municipalities offer pickup,
there's basically no consumer interest.

It's the sort of thing that made me sit up and realize what a bubble most of
the tech world sits in. Composting and recycling is very much a "liberal urban
thing" in the US. It seems like the culture is against cutting down on waste
in any significant way.

~~~
technovader
McDonalds sells KCUPs that are compostable. Meaning you just put it in with
your compost.

They also happen to be some of the best coffee you can get in a KCUP. It's my
daily cup of joe.

Anyway if your city does not have compost you have bigger problems than KCUPs.
If you do have compost, just get KCUPS that are biodegradable. It's way better
than a system where KCUPs have to be recycled in a special way (like Nespresso
does).

~~~
mr_tristan
Yeah, I'm just pointing out the underlying problem is cultural - if Keurig
didn't exist, we'd have something else filling up the trash bin.

Given that 91% of plastic made hasn't been recycled, it does seem like "just
make it all compostable, who cares where it goes" is a better approach.
([https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/07/plastic-
produced...](https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/07/plastic-produced-
recycling-waste-ocean-trash-debris-environment/))

------
ryansmccoy
A little bit of a tangent, but man do Investors/Wall-Street love the
Razor/Razor-Blade business models. Sell the hardware (i.e. the machine) at
~10-20% Gross Margin then sell the consumables at like 60-80% Gross Margin.
See it a a lot with Healthcare companies. Doesn't always work, but when it
does... Obviously, there are other business models that Investors/Wall Street
likes better (i.e. SAAS).

------
parliament32
Over the last year or so there's been a big push from companies to sell
biodegradable k-cups. In our office we're fully switched to Onecoffee, which
are Keurig-compatible compostable pods:
[https://onecoffee.com/](https://onecoffee.com/)

------
rickyc091
Just want to point out that Keurig did make recyclable pods called K-Cup Vue,
but the price per cup was noticeably more so people continued to go with the
regular k-cup option. On top of that, it wasn't available at many brick and
mortar stores. On top of that, the size differed causing everyone to buy a
different, more expensive machine.

------
Cuuugi
My take away from this is that he sold out for $50,000. Not the best
investment "screw up story" but it made my day.

~~~
giarc
I wonder if he would be singing a different tune if he was now worth $500
million or something.

------
s_m
Buddy, we regret it too.

------
dragontamer
Personally speaking, cold brew is far more convenient than even K-Cups.

Throw coffee + water into a big jar (~2 quarts), leave in the fridge for
12-hours. Filter, and you have ~1.7ish quarts of cold-brew coffee.

2-quart mason jars are like, $10 for a 6-pack.

[https://www.walmart.com/ip/JARDEN-HOME-
BRANDS-68100-Ball-6Pa...](https://www.walmart.com/ip/JARDEN-HOME-
BRANDS-68100-Ball-6Pack-1-2Gallon-Wide-Mouth-Jar/16661826)

Cold-brew in one Mason Jar, pour / filter into a 2nd jar. Heck, do 2 or 3
different flavors at once.

Get a pour-over filter holder (ceramic or glass works well in my experience):

[https://www.target.com/p/melitta-sr-pour-over-cone-
coffeemak...](https://www.target.com/p/melitta-sr-pour-over-cone-
coffeemaker/-/A-53951777?preselect=53669500#lnk=sametab)

And then get a bunch of Coffee Filters, usually $2 for ~100 of them. Bam. Cold
Brew and its cheap as all heck too. Works on all kinds of coffee and tea in my
experience.

Just batch it all up in one go, and you have enough coffee for the whole week.
If you like it warm, put it in the microwave. The cold-brew process reduces
the bitterness overall, so you get a different taste. But I prefer higher
flavor and less bitterness that comes from the cold-brew process.

Nothing beats the convenience of cold brew. And you can use high-quality
coffee with this method (K-Cups don't necessarily taste as good IMO. Less time
for the coffee to infuse the flavor compared to traditional coffee making).

\-------

Other tips:

1\. Use a scale to measure coffee. Put the mason jar on the scale, and dump
coffee into it until you reach your appropriate amount for your recipe.
Somewhere in the order of 1-to-15 coffee-to-water ratio. (1750g of water to
120g of coffee. Varies per coffee you use however, so do it to taste). Water
is 1-gram to 1-milliliter, 1kg to 1-liter. The Metric System is defined by the
weight / volume of water, so its easy if you use Metric measurements. Scales
are easier to use than measuring cups IMO. Scales mean fewer things to clean,
while delivering more precision in measurements.

2\. Mason Jars are standardized. Buy 3rd party caps, such as "Recap" (from
[https://www.recapmasonjars.com/](https://www.recapmasonjars.com/) ) to make
Mason Jars more usable. Both Wide-mouth and Standard-mouth jars are too wide
in my experience, so "narrowing" the mouth with a Recap plastic top makes the
pouring experience far better. The reason why I like Recap is because they use
Rubber Gaskets to ensure a strong seal (a lot of random Amazon crap doesn't
have a Gasket, and you get leaky coffee all over your pants if you use them).

3\. Use high-quality filters to make the purest water possible. Coffee reacts
to a lot of things in water, so its exceptionally important to filter as well
as possible.

~~~
amatecha
What, I had no clue it was so easy... OK, I might have to try this! I thought
it involved some french press type of process. Seems perfect for summer months
especially! Thanks haha :)

~~~
dragontamer
The only problem is that it takes ~10 minutes to filter that much coffee. You
may have to change out the filters 2 or 3 times during the process.

Coffee Grounds clog up those filters and really slow down the process. But
once its done, you've got so much coffee that you can use conveniently. Just
gotta find the ~15 minutes to work the filters.

See my comment here for an example schedule:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18718842](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18718842)

My personal preference is to cold-brew Tea however. I'm more of a tea person
than a coffee person. But I switch it up every now and then to change the
flavors.

~~~
illegalsmile
I use a filter bag to hold the grounds when brewing cold brew so when I filter
there's far less matter to clog up.

------
type-2
I would assume the margins are crazy on this. I guess this is how you do
profitable hardware

~~~
PascLeRasc
Relevant: [https://blog.bolt.io/keurig-accidentally-created-the-
perfect...](https://blog.bolt.io/keurig-accidentally-created-the-perfect-
business-model-for-hardware-startups-18e9c3b4e796)

Keurig created a hardware sales model orthogonal to printers. That is, people
are excited to buy the recurring element (pods) and accept that the several-
hundred-dollar device is just a means to an end. They don't feel ripped off,
compared to buying printer ink that costs nearly as much as a new printer.

------
zachguo
Invent a better one again then. Biodegradable filter plus reusable cup.

~~~
orblivion
I've seen compostable brands of cup.

~~~
derimagia
[http://a.co/d/4eWshVr](http://a.co/d/4eWshVr) is the one we usually get

~~~
vvilliam0
[http://a.co/d/8VwxwnW](http://a.co/d/8VwxwnW) Best in town

------
DBYCZ
Why do they have to be cups, instead of little coffee-filled teabags you pop
in the machine instead?

------
theorique
If you dry out the used pods and their contents, couldn't they be burned for
energy?

------
stuaxo
These things are terrible. Could they at least make the pods out of cardboard
?

------
SonicSoul
_' I don't know why people have them in their house,' K-Cup inventor says of
his device_

Unless he donated half (or majority) of his profits to try to correct this
mistake expressing _' regret'_ is kind of meaningless.

 _update_ i stand corrected, my bad for not reading full post before
commenting

~~~
da_chicken
From above:

> It should be noted that John quit the company in 1997 and sold his idea for
> $50,000

------
stevenalowe
I wonder if he regrets selling the idea for peanuts more?

------
SonnyWortzik
biodegradable cups? Is that possible?

~~~
makerofspoons
San Francisco Bay Coffee makes some:
[https://www.sanfranciscobaycoffee.com/index.php/onecup-
for-k...](https://www.sanfranciscobaycoffee.com/index.php/onecup-for-keurig-
coffee-machines/)

~~~
bg4
Available in bulk from Costco. We use these for this reason.

------
paulcole
Good to see that he's putting his money where his mouth is and giving away the
money he earned from his invention to a good cause.

Oh wait...

~~~
ovao
I think we’ve probably all regretted doing things we’ve done to “pay the
mortgage” at various times in our past — that doesn’t necessitate that we
donate that money to charity.

~~~
paulcole
Most of us don't invent world-changing products to "pay the mortgage" and our
regret over our work isn't featured in articles on major news websites.

We're talking apples and oranges here.

~~~
ovao
If your argument is that scale or extent of publicity is the differentiator,
then we’re not talking apples and oranges: we’re talking apples and bigger
apples.

The decision to be philanthropic is personal. Both in the sense that it’s up
to the individual to choose based on their own feelings and in the sense that
it’s, frankly, no one else’s business.

~~~
paulcole
> The decision to be philanthropic is personal

So is the decision to be regretful but he sure went public about that. It's a
little hypocritical to publicly chastise himself, "boy I wish I hadn't done
this awful thing that I profited massively from" and then do nothing else.

Also an ocean and a puddle are both bodies of water but I wouldn't say the
differentiator is scale.

------
cronix
We should start having a plastic tax per gram of plastic, and based on the
type of plastic (how easy it can be recycled). Maybe if these products became
really expensive and people bought less of them, companies will find other
methods. I'm very, very sick and tired of the over use of plastic in our
society. Plastic does play a useful role in our lives, but I don't think every
product we buy needs to be in that thick clear plastic that is very hard to
open without cutting the hell out of your hand. Companies claim this is a
theft deterrent, and it might be, but I think we can do better than the over
use of all of this plastic. It's just everywhere now, including your body.

Or, instead of a tax, a deposit which you get some or all of it back when you
recycle it like we do with aluminum cans. Plastic is only about 100 years old,
and look what we've done. [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-great-pacific-
garbage-patch...](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-great-pacific-garbage-
patch-cleaning-up-the-plastic-in-the-ocean-60-minutes/)

Edit: removed erroneous editorialized comment

~~~
Lapsed
> But he left the company in 1997, selling his ownership of the product for
> $50,000.

You are spreading misinformation, you should edit or delete your comment.

~~~
hackerbabz
Why do you think that that's not true? Page 4 says so,
[http://archive.boston.com/business/articles/2011/08/07/the_i...](http://archive.boston.com/business/articles/2011/08/07/the_inside_story_of_keurigs_rise_to_a_billion_dollar_coffee_empire/?page=4)

~~~
Lapsed
I was quoting the article to show that the comment wasn't true. So I do think
that the quote is true.

