
Send and receive money with Gmail - nandaja
https://support.google.com/mail/answer/3141103?co=GENIE.Platform%3DDesktop&hl=en
======
prlambert
Interesting to see this get traction here today, this article is for the web
version which has been around for awhile.

But we did just (in March) launch this for Android:
[https://blog.google/products/gmail/send-and-request-money-
in...](https://blog.google/products/gmail/send-and-request-money-in-your-
gmail-app-android/) & [https://techcrunch.com/2017/03/14/you-can-now-send-and-
reque...](https://techcrunch.com/2017/03/14/you-can-now-send-and-request-
money-in-gmail-on-android/)

~~~
ncr100
No money transfers for me. My account is now considered for "business"
regardless of me considering my personal account as "personal":

"Wallet can't be used: This could be because Google Wallet isn't supported in
your country or because you're using a business account. To see your purchases
from Google Play and other products, go to the payments center."

I've unintentionally "poisoned" my personal Gmail account by adding Android
Developer capabilities to it. An unexpected negative side-effect.

Google has under-designed its Account concept asserting an account is entirely
for business if it's merely associated with an Android Marketplace capability.

Google should really support multiple roles for an account. At the least,
caution users when adding Android Developer Marketplace capabilities to Gmail
accounts about the new limitations this choice will impose.

------
theptip
As anyone with experience in payments will tell you, this is the easy part
(and should explain why Google hasn't expanded the coverage in the four years
they have been offering this).

The reason that payments systems are all either expensive or inconvenient
(usually both) is that the regulatory systems that underpin the international
movement of money are very complicated, and are different in each country.

Getting payments to users in the US and UK is relatively easy; you'll need a
business entity in each country and you'll also need to register with the
regulators in each country (e.g. as a MSB in the USA, requiring a $1m bond in
some states). Note the phrase "relative"; this is not something that a couple
kids from Stanford can disrupt, you need expensive lawyers and banking
contacts. You can run all of that from your office in Mountain View though.

You'll also need to comply with various "know your customer" regulations; the
US government will not be happy if you wire money to O. Bin Laden, or anyone
else on the OFAC watchlist. And even if you're sending money to a "gmail UK"
email address, you will need some way of proving that you're not sending money
to countries that have sanctions/restrictions on capital flows like Iran and
North Korea.

That's the easy part. If you actually try to make a serious international
play, then you'll need a sizable team in each region that you want to do
business in. The Eurozone is relatively easy to cover, but your regulatory
requirements in South American countries will probably require one or two
people per country (that's to keep your bank relationships warm, and to keep
up with all of the paperwork that's required to operate a money transmitter
business).

This is why Paypal charges merchant fees of 4.4% _plus forex fee_ to receive
money from an arbitrary country in the world. This system is hugely complex,
and very resistant to change, due to the serious consequences of making a
regulatory error.

~~~
ilanco
Is PayPal being subjected to those laws? After all they are not a bank.

~~~
fragmede
Only in the US. In the EU, they're registered as a Luxembourg-based bank.

[http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20070515005225/en/PayP...](http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20070515005225/en/PayPal-
Expands-European-Growth-Bank-Charter-European)

------
tehabe
I wonder why banks in the US don't just give all of their customers an IBAN
and let them transfer money for free or very cheap. They could even give
companies those IBANs and let them receive bill payments that way. But I guess
that would be too easy and also too European.

~~~
theptip
If you're asking about making transfers electronically inside the US, that
already exists -- the system is called ACH. You use your bank's routing number
and your account number. It's not as widely adopted for things like bill
payments, since the US banking system is quite antiquated (they still use
checks for many payments).

If you're asking about international payments between US and EU banks,
currently you do that using the SWIFT network (i.e. wires). It's $25-30 a pop.
And there are significant regulatory and technical barriers to getting this
cost down (see the EU's SEPA program for a regional version, and that's with a
bunch of countries that have already normalized their financial regulations).

~~~
XaspR8d
Unfortunately many banks seem to put up arbitrary hurdles to performing ACH
transfers, or obscure the fact that they are available. Certainly I've had
this issue with Wells Fargo, US Bank, and BoA.

I assume this is because a number of them use "free, easy transfers between
our customers" as a selling point, which would vanish quickly if it were easy
to do between anybody. Sometimes it seems like we're even sliding backwards --
for example Chase used to have a fairly nice person-to-person payment system,
but they recently locked it down to people with their own Chase account.

~~~
gcr
One problem is that ACH transfers are inherently quite insecure and the banks
don't want to be held liable for fraud. It's in the bank's best interest to
make transfers difficult and to check the source and destination identities
pretty thoroughly.

Sarah Jeong wrote about her experience with ACH fraud here, where her bank
account was emptied when someone found her account and routing numbers:
[https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/why-i-hate-
securi...](https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/why-i-hate-security-
computers-and-the-entire-modern-banking-system)

~~~
erichurkman
This is why I use separate accounts for different things. Bill pay is a
separate account. Direct deposit is a separate account. I have an account I
_only_ use for writing paper checks (rare these days).

It's a pain in the ass, but a long time ago an employer errantly clawed back a
full month of payroll direct deposits from me instead of another employee. The
bank couldn't/wouldn't help, and the company's payroll was handled by a third
party who was not helpful at all.

~~~
petejansson
How do you move money among the accounts? I like the idea of using multiple
bank accounts as financial firewalls for my money, but it seems difficult or
expensive to move the funds, especially if the accounts are not all at the
same institution.

~~~
erichurkman
ACH transfers (aka bill pay in some banks), most regular payments out of
account X also have a corresponding transfer ~5 days prior from a main cash
account to account X.

It's not flawless, but it is insulation against ACH fraud, both electronic and
forged checks/e-checks (I've been hit by both before).

It also makes it nearly impossible to use most budgeting softwares out there,
aside from battle-tested Excel.

------
CGamesPlay
After reading a horror story of Facebook completely locking out someone's
account for allegedly doing Marketplace fraud, I'm extremely dubious of
services adding financial stuff into their existing offering. Imagine being
accused of fraud and losing all access to your GMail information.

~~~
vollmond
Google already has a history of that with AdSense, I believe. I think HN has
seen stories of total Google lockout over AdSense disputes.

~~~
funnyfacts365
I don't think so... I managed to get banned twice from AdSense and I still use
all the other google services with the accounts that got banned.

------
tyingq
I would love a credible competitor to Paypal.

Google's branding, though, is confusing and may hold this back.

There's Google Wallet, Android Pay, and now this. This is probably related to
one of the previously mentioned ideas, but it isn't mentioned on the page.

~~~
imrehg
Trying it out, seems like it's powered by Google Wallet, so there should be at
least some convergence, hopefully?

~~~
tyingq
Yes, it's mostly a market messaging thing. Like when they killed Google
checkout and said "some" functionality went to Google Wallet.

They really need a more consistent brand and message if they want the general
public using these things.

Oh, and they are also shutting down the somewhat related "trusted stores"
program.

------
shazow
I think this feature has been around since 2013:
[https://commerce.googleblog.com/2013/05/send-money-to-
friend...](https://commerce.googleblog.com/2013/05/send-money-to-friends-with-
gmail-and.html)

------
Entangled
I love this idea, it can be even bigger than Paypal. Three suggestions:

First, make it a mobile app as a simplified gmail with just the recipient, the
amount and a memo. That's it. In version two add the pic, avatar or whatever
people use.

Second, open a new wave of email accounts since all gmail accounts are already
taken so people can start using their names or businesses as email accounts
again. Perhaps GoMail? And start from day one with two factor authentication
so squatters don't start their party.

Third, create Merchant accounts and apps so business owners can track
thousands of payments a day with tools for money management.

This was my dream solution for the mobile payment need but now that Google is
going to do it I'll leave it to them.

~~~
Entangled
I firmly believe they have a winner, specially for the small and informal
businesses, all they need is to deliver simplicity and security. The pay by
email is not as important as the pay by mobile but it can be used to leverage
market penetration. Later on add NFC to the mobile app to have a total winner.

Now, imagine this mobile app used to pay a taxi driver, a street vendor, a
handyman, any and all informal activities that are hard to pay by credit card.
Trillions a year.

Make it simple, Google, simpler than the suits can ever think of, or I'll be
forced to make it with my own bare hands. All this time I've been waiting for
a giant to bring mobile payment to the masses just to see Apple fall short and
nobody else stepping to the plate.

Your time to shine, Google.

~~~
dajohnson89
Please​ make your own, so that Google has less of a stranglehold on
everything.

~~~
Entangled
Already did it for the latinamerican market, but haven't launched it and
probably never will. Banking is not hard, it's just too regulated for the mere
mortal.

[http://fonpago.com](http://fonpago.com)

------
williamstein
Can you send and receive money for "non personal use"? E.g., I tried paying
some small test consultant fees from my company using Facebook's "send/receive
money", and they quickly told me I was violating their terms of usage. I can't
tell either way from this Gmail page. Just curious (not that I would actually
use things this way, but zero fees can be nice for small transactions).

------
pech0rin
I have been using this feature for a year+. It is an easy way to pay back
family members who don't know what Venmo is, but have a gmail account.

------
wehadfun
Google should send $10 to maybe a few million or so people to jump start this
service

~~~
solotronics
I can take the burden of distribution for them just send me $10mil and I
promise to grow an economy via Gmail.

------
Radle
Would love to see two things: a) Feature limited on two factor authorization.
b) Support for Euro, Germany.

~~~
johnp_
c) Support for direct debit instead of having to use PayPal when one doesn't
own a credit card

~~~
pitaj
I believe this works fine with credit/debit cards. I thought all debit cards
were credit/debit these days.

------
jasonkostempski
This is going to make gmail accounts a huge target for thieves. Now they don't
even have to do the reset password step on your bank login.

~~~
phsource
To be honest, I think email accounts (especially the main ones) have always
been a huge target to thieves, since many services still use it as the primary
password reset/two-factor authentication method. In that sense, not much has
changed.

------
leovonl
I suggest adding a "in US or UK" to the title.

------
skummetmaelk
So now Google will tell advertisers how much you are willing to pay for
products too. Paving the way for omnipresent Amazon(tm) price adjustment based
on user history.

------
alexfisher
This should totally have support for crypto-currencies. Google should add
support for ERC-20 compatible tokens.

------
e12e
I was almost expecting this to be a late April's Fool...

I guess it's a way to get more people to sign up for a Google account - you
can "send to any email" \- but that's not really accurate as you need a Google
account to send/receive funds. It's not surprising of course, anyone
technically inclined would realize this is a wrapper around:you can now place
money in escrow with Google and let people know via email. Just like you could
probably "send [money] via carrier pigeon" with PayPal...

~~~
nickpsecurity
"I was almost expecting this to be a late April's Fool..."

I did, too. The date was the first thing I checked. Well, I guess we can email
money around on our insecure devices now. So, with Apple Pay and Gmail Money,
we might finally develop something along the lines of WeChat in China where
many people are constantly just using mobile to pay each other.

------
zuron7
For those of you interested in Financial Technology and money transfer. Check
out the UPI system in India. It's basically an API for banks. It's designed in
a way that start ups can approach it. Each user can pick up an ID, say
zuron7@bankname and transact with it.

[0] [https://indiastack.org/upi/](https://indiastack.org/upi/)

------
MichaelBurge
Here's the list of things you're prohibited from using it for:

[https://support.google.com/payments/merchant/answer/75724?vi...](https://support.google.com/payments/merchant/answer/75724?visit_id=1-636291834113321106-107927709&payments_to_biz=&rd=1)

~~~
tyingq
"Travel packages and offers" is the odd man out on there. I wonder what the
issue is.

------
nafizh
It seems this has been available since 2013.

------
du_bing
This is amazing! But I only see payment settings for US and UK users, can
users from other countries use the service?

~~~
Markoff
no

------
orschiro
Only available in the US and UK, correct?

~~~
amelius
Yes. It's still not possible to email money to an arbitrary country in 2017.

Unless you use a currency like bitcoin of course.

------
hartator
Interesting that they use the word "Computer" instead of "Desktop" for non-
mobile devices.

~~~
hackuser
What word would you use for the class of machines that are desktops and
laptops? It's a real, if not very important, question that I've never found a
good answer for.

~~~
hartator
Lol, I always on the lookout for an answer to this as well. I use Browsers vs
Mobile Browsers vs Desktop Apps vs Mobile Apps if I want to be precise. But,
yeah, it's usually confusing.

~~~
nefitty
At work I ask "Are you using your phone or your computer?" It's generally non-
techie people that will get confused and might consider their tablet a
"computer", but that is pretty rare.

------
nilved
This is EEE.

------
tonyedgecombe
Uh, no thanks.

