

Why Many Smart Folks End up going Nowhere - dedalus
http://www.lifebeyondcode.com/2010/03/29/9-reasons-why-many-smart-people-go-nowhere/

======
jister
"Mediocre Life" is relative and you don't have the right to judge the lives of
other people. If they are happy with their life then let them be.

~~~
pw0ncakes
A life is mediocre or not based on the conditions and constraints within which
someone lives.

Someone who has to put off a vacation for 5 months because he only has 2
weeks' vacation each year, instead of going when he wants to, has a mediocre
life. Someone who moves out of the city into a boring suburb because he can't
afford a place in the city where he can raise kids is living a mediocre life.

It's not about money _per se_. There are people making $500,000 per year who
live mediocre, depressing, subordinate lives. And there are people making a
small fraction of that who have great lives. It's about having the resources
and access to live life on your own terms rather than someone else's.

~~~
elblanco
I live in the suburbs. It's quite nice actually.

I work pretty much whatever hours I want and can walk to most things I use on
a daily or weekly basis: groceries (including fresh meats and veggies from the
local farmers), eat out at restaurants from fast food to 3-star (two in my
neighborhood actually), get dry cleaning done if I need to, take care of
shipping stuff, take in a movie, see a doctor, dentist, chiropractor or
orthodontist. I can also walk to a pretty nice neighborhood park only the
folks in my development can use without crossing any major roads. It's about
40 acres, with a water fall, a pond, two tennis courts, exercise equipment,
playgrounds for kids, jogging trail and miscellaneous other sundry -- mostly
covered in trees and greenery. We have three swimming pools in my
neighborhood, one where no kids are allowed. Twice a month we have a farmer's
market in the parking lot of the bank I walk to in 5 minutes. On the 4th of
July my neighborhood puts on a private fireworks show.

Every home in my neighborhood has fiber optic internet, phone and television.
We had it before FiOS was even a term.

I'm 5 minutes from a reservoir and nature preserve. On any given night I can
spend maybe 5-10 minutes of travel time to see live music, take in a play, see
a concert or get on a 45 mile long dedicated bike trail. 10-15 minutes from my
house I can buy pretty much anything a person can buy, from a Porsche to
discount socks, can play golf at at least 6 golf courses, have a world class
indoor swimming facility inside of a nature preserve and park, and my eating
venues and choices expand by a magnitude of 10 including everything from
budget priced French Cuisine to Korean bar food. I have half a dozen ethnic
groceries within 20 minutes travel time from my house, two world class
performance venues, a college campus (soon to be two more), ample jobs and
industry in everything from hi-tech to agriculture (I live in Wine Country).
I'm close enough to a major international airport that If I travel someplace,
I can call my wife when I land to come pick me up at the airport, and she'll
be there by the time I collect my baggage.

And in 3 years or so I'll have a mass transit stop 5 minutes from my house.

My house is not terribly big, but I and several family members can live there
very comfortably and rarely bump elbows, and I spend less than 25% of my
income to live there (I'm not rich by any stretch of the term). In the warm
months I, get home from work and walk to the grocery and buy and grill lamb,
fresh salmon, steaks, asparagus, mushrooms, onions, garlic and other such
great things, and eat out on my property every day with a bottle of wine (I'm
partial to Chilean Cabs) I brought back from the same grocery. I usually
finish up dinner by finishing the wine with some imported cheeses or fresh
fruit from the last farmer's market and a cigar.

If I want to enjoy pure nature, it's literally 10 minutes away, and if I want
to enjoy an urban environment, I'm 30-40 minutes from the local city center.
However, I find myself not going much into the city because there's really not
much draw outside of the occasional comedy show or museum. I literally have
everything I could ever need at my finger tips, plus I pay less for the
privilege than living in the city, and I have 10x the room.

I get 3 weeks vacation per year, I usually split it into two trips. In the
last two years I've vacationed literally around the world 3 times. But the
rest of the time, I don't really have to take a vacation, because the
environment I live in _is_ literally better than any resort I've ever been to
except I have to mix my own drinks.

Maybe you call that having a mediocre life. Perhaps, but maybe I'm just
satisfied with mediocrity then?

~~~
rms
That sounds like an incredibly nice suburb. Most aren't that good. There is
nothing walkable from my parent's house. Though they do have FiOS and I can't
get it in the city.

~~~
elblanco
We picked the area because of the large numbers of nice amenities very close
by. There are about 5000 homes here all with the same kinds of walk-ability. A
very nicely designed area. There are areas just a few miles away that weren't
designed quite as well.

I'm very glad to be seeing the recent movement in design that calls for
walking friendly areas. But with a good understanding that people need to park
somewhere as well.

~~~
surfmike
which city are you in?

~~~
elblanco
I live in the Northern Virginia area. Which is Washington D.C. metro.

~~~
bsaunder
Sounds like Ashburn. ;)

------
mojuba
A psychologist once explained to me how powerful and destructive can the _fear
of success_ be. In fact most of the time it's latent. Many of those
complaining about unluckiness may in reality be afraid of "heights": too much
money or fame or both. Usually a result of "money and fame doesn't make you
happy" but there may be other, more personal reasons, too. As a latent,
subconscious force it may sometimes outweigh the other 9 factors mentioned in
the article.

One of the signs you have the fear of success is when you respond emotionally
to negative stories about the reach and famous. "See, they are bastards", you
say, or other times "they are pathetic". Well, it may be true most of the
time, but it's not their problem, it's yours.

~~~
hristov
I am not sure whether this is exactly fear of success. I think it may be fear
of failure, or more specifically fear of discovering that one does not have
talent.

For example, take somebody that is smart, is a great conservationist in
parties, makes great jokes and has read the entire literary cannons of several
countries. All his friends say he should be a writer. He has always dreamed of
being a writer. Yet he never starts writing. Is that fear of success? Or fear
of trying and discovering that despite everything he did not have talent?

Anyway, while we are on the subject linked below is a hilarious episode of
Black Books that is about this. BTW I think the main character of that show is
someone like the person in my example.

[http://www.hulu.com/watch/114471/black-books-elephants-
and-h...](http://www.hulu.com/watch/114471/black-books-elephants-and-
hens#x-0,vepisode,1,0)

~~~
sree_nair
I am yet to meet anyone who is afraid of success, I think it more a case of
the fear of Failure.

~~~
mojuba
In some particular cases - yes, you are afraid of going too high because the
fall would be most painful. But still there may be, for example, some (latent
or not) religious fears of too much wealth.

~~~
araneae
That sounds like Freud, who is pretty much discredited on everything. There's
really no evidence for "latent" or "subconscious" processes that are analogous
to conscious processes, such as fear. Fear is always pretty damn conscious.

------
lunaru
I think it's also important to keep in mind that the topic in the article is
heavily weighed towards financial success (and conversely, financial nowhere-
ness).

There are plenty of ways to "go somewhere, be someone, and do remarkable
things" without using smarts and luck as a means to wealth. It just takes time
to realize that the standard definition of success is mostly a rat race.

Then again, this comes from someone who loves capitalism and is an
entrepreneur wanna-be, so take my words for what they're worth.

~~~
owyn
Yeah. I am tired of the get rich quick crowd. The best way to get rich on the
internet is to sell 'how to get rich on the internet' advice to people who
want to get rich on the internet.

I've been a software developer at internet startups for 15 years and never
made anything beyond my (frequently minimal) salary (me=bad negotiator), but
it was usually fun, challenging and I've learned a lot. But I've never claimed
to be smart. The most money I ever made was something that had nothing to do
with the internet (real estate) that a friend of mine talked me into against
my better judgement. And the only reason I made any money at all was because
I'm such a pessimist that I sold right before everything crashed.

~~~
rajesh301
Owyn, the article was not focused on "richness" from a money perspective.
Success simply meant you have an "increased capacity to contribute to the
world around you."

~~~
rajesh301
Owyn, I couldn't reply to your last reply as there was no reply option there
:(

Yes, you are welcome to be angry and be pessimistic or in whatever mood you
choose to be. And it's OK to disagree too. I never claim to know all the
answers anyway :)

~~~
owyn
My comments were mostly "meta". There has been a rash of entrepreneur bs here
lately and I'm sick of it. I much prefer the NoSQL posts. However. To get to
the meat of your post, I have personally (meaning, in my personal life)
encountered issues with 1,3,6,9 which I have overcome to one extent or
another. Or not. So whatever. Fuck it. I'm going to sleep. Good luck with your
whatevers, I have to write a bunch of code tomorrow.

~~~
rajesh301
OK owyn. Please take care and have fun with your code tomorrow

------
vital101
The "somewhere" metric is different for everyone. Aspiring towards different
things doesn't mean you went nowhere. For instance, I just released my first
bit of open source code. I feel like I've finally reached a goal. Hence, I
went somewhere.

~~~
socratees
Can't agree more. It's all about following your heart.

~~~
wlievens
I think _following your heart_ is the only meaning _going somewhere_ can have.

~~~
rajesh301
Yes I agree that one should "follow their heart" to go somewhere. One thing to
remember is that as the "awareness" of what is possible with their potential
changes, their heart will start yearning for reaching that potential.

So, who you are with and what conversations you have on a daily basis will
have a huge influence on what your heart will say.

~~~
wlievens
Absolutely. Your dreams (figuratively) are shaped by your daily interactions
as much as they are by your personality.

For instance, reading HN has made it clear to me what I _want_ more so than I
could have ever found out on my own (I've yet to reach it; though).

~~~
rajesh301
Thank you. For those that are ultra-curious about this, please make it a point
to read "The Biology of Belief" by Bruce Lipton. Quick summary there is -
"Garbage in; Garbage Out." :)

------
yason
And what's wrong with going "nowhere in life", then? What the hell is this
"mediocre life" and how could anyone define it for anyone but for himself
only?

If there were external standards who could define what's best for me and what
should I become? Who _could_ do that especially if I'm smart, smarter than
most?

On the other hand, if the author didn't only talk about smart people who he
thinks live a mediocre life but also about smart people who themselves think
they live a mediocre life, the article could just have been renamed as "Smart
People Not Happy With Their Lives Either".

~~~
teeja
When I was in my 20s, I ran across a man who'd been a 'successful' salesman
for 15 years. He made a special point to tell me how he regretted all the time
he'd spent away from home and not being around to see his kids grow up.

We all have different ways of evaluating our satisfaction and what fulfills
us. I'd rather fail at a difficult task than succeed at a simpler one...
because the difficult one engages me, the simpler one bores me.

I'd rather take a walk in the woods than drive a Lamborghini. Rather read a
good book than take an expensive trip to see yet another pile of rocks.

YMMV.

------
adrianwaj
There are 3 golden triangles of success one can examine, whereby an increase
in 1 factor puts pressure for an increase in another. These triangles are:

project: scope, time, budget

ego: fame, fortune, power

wellbeing: health, family relations, work life

For work, this means a happy work life, that is, doing the work one does best,
doing it well, not overdoing it, and being paid appropriately: maximizing
flow. So work in the wellbeing triangle is a reward, not a burden.

Here are some rules:

\- within a triangle, if you increase 1 factor, it leads to an increase in
another, but if you increase it too much it leads to cessation in another, or
a decrease. EG: pump too much money into a project, and too many people may be
hired and deadlines are missed.

\- too much pressure in a triangle will force a period of chaos until a new
triangle can be formed with higher capacity. EG: your family relations may be
so great that you can have more children but you are not making enough money
to allow it, so family relations can have limits until work life improves.

\- there are connections between the triangles, but the links are uncertain.
EG: one person may trash their family relations and work life in order to
experience a benefit of fame. This may in turn lead to new relations more
relevant to that fame, and then a better family life.

My point: success is multi-factored. Success in one area doesn't necessarily
mean success in other areas. Also, the road to success itself is a meta-
success not to be overlooked.

------
coreyrecvlohe
I'll just say I agree with some of the points mentioned in the article, but
here are some my additions:

Always have segmented goals. For instance, I have a few for the next 6 months
(learn a couple new programming languages, hit the gym 5 days a week, get a
faster time on my 5000 meter run), and always focus on them; they will change,
some times you'll pick up a new 6 month goal, or it may extend to another
segment, but always have a short time span where you are improving yourself
and your skills in some way, always.

Then have focus on the 2 to 5 year goal span, where you are slowly acquiring a
larger set of skills sets that work in tandem to meet a more complex goal set.
For instance, getting a side project profitable and running. Doing this could
include a series of 6 months goals that work together to reach that 2 year
goal (getting more unix admin experience, finishing your nth
business/marketing book, creating a network of partner and commercial
relationships).

Then you always have a set of goals that you want to reach 10 or 20 years from
now, that are a solid mix of personal and professional ambitions that you know
are attainable if you plan ahead.

Everything takes time, and the worst thing you can do is wasting it by not
focusing on what needs to be done now in order to move to the next stage in
life.

Not to mention doing all of this while maintaining a good spirit, sane mind,
physical fitness, and personal fulfillment.

It's all possible, but you have to keep your eye on the prize, watch out for
pitfalls, and don't let minor setbacks derail your ultimate ambitions. It's
all incremental. You can't do everything at once, otherwise you set yourself
up for failure. You must work slowly, realizing those progressions, and
building on them until you're living the dream.

------
rguzman
Leaving aside the fact that it is really hard to judge and distinguish between
"nowhere" and "somewhere", is there any evidence that a significant number
smart folks go nowhere? More than 20%? More than 50%? 80%? 90%?

In my experience (anecdotal), smart people tend to share two distinct
features: they are lazy and they are effective. They are only as lazy as being
effective allows them to be. By effective I mean that they attain their
desired outcomes.

In short, most smart people go where they want to go.

------
Snark7
Here is a fun trick: imagine Bernard Madoff, Kenneth Lay, or George Bush Jr.
reading this. All of these people "went somewhere", but I certainly don't
aspire to be any of them.

~~~
philk
"What if you become a really lousy President of the United States" doesn't
strike me as a particularly compelling argument for not trying to go
somewhere.

------
yesbabyyes
I really like your posts, Rajesh! When I first found your blog here on HN I
just kept reading.

With that said, I think a lot of people don't really understand what you mean,
perhaps because they have their own pre-conceived notions of what success is,
or they might think that you look kind of slick with that shirt and sunglasses
on... ;)

I think what Rajesh is after is that our world is a mess right now (at least
this is what I feel) because lots of smart people/people with leadership
qualities/creative people born in the 30s/40s/50s have spent their energy on
things that are good for themselves, while not advancing the world.

If many smart people do what they can to make the world a little bit better,
we will get a huge payoff.

And we need that.

~~~
benkant
>> perhaps because they have their own pre-conceived notions of what success
is

There is no absolute definition of success.

------
makeramen
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers. That was the
first thing I thought of when I read this. Although Gladwell doesn't
specifically point out 9 points in his book, most of these points can be
easily inferred from the anecdotes that Gladwell presents.

Thought provoking stuff nonetheless.

------
apitaru
"you can’t work on luck directly. You can work on everything else and improve
the chances of getting lucky."

Well said, reminds me of a nice deconstruction of luck by Marc Andreessen:
<http://pmarchive.com/luck_and_the_entrepreneur>

------
luckyland
Family.

~~~
rajesh301
Success and family need not be mutually exclusive but yes, family comes first
:)

------
pw0ncakes
This seems to equate "smart" with academic success. What about the smart
people who are not academically successful? Some of them go somewhere; others
go nowhere, but they'd have a different profile.

One that I've seen all over the place:

10\. A smart person with the misfortune of ending up in the average class is
likely to be noticed by a teacher and put on the honors track. A smart person
who ends up in a mediocre department of a mediocre company (lack of ambition,
poor interviewing skills, geography, low self-esteem) is likely to fail out,
and have a damaged resume after doing so. He's now competing against fresh
22-year-olds, and he's a 24-year-old who worked some unimpressive accounting
job and got fired.

School is designed to notice and nurture talent. Sometimes it fails, but it
makes a solid and noble effort, and probably succeeds more often than it
fails. By contrast, the corporate world is much less interested in, or capable
with, this process, because business people are generally bad at telling apart
the few who actually are talented from the many who think they are. Also, the
corporate world is only interested in nurturing talent that satisfies an
immediate need of the business.

~~~
elblanco
I had lots of these "person I know is smart but sucks at
<school/work/relationships/life/etc.>" chats with my father while growing up.

My father always responded, "if they were so smart, why didn't they just use
their intelligence to figure out how to succeed at those things?"

~~~
Psyonic
because it wasn't a priority? They feel their talents are better used
elsewhere?

