
Ask HN: Do you still pay with Paypal? - ronaldl93
Unfortunately Stripe and Braintree isn&#x27;t available where I live (South Africa), making accepting payments (subscriptions) in an international market a bit more difficult.<p>That basically leaves me with 2&#x2F;3 options.<p>Use one of the few local Payment processor - but a huge drawback is that I cannot charge in foreign currencies (USD&#x2F;GBP&#x2F;EUR, etc). Obviously for a little &#x27;startup&#x27;, quoting in a relatively unknown currency (South African Rand) will highly impact conversions, so not an option for me.<p>There&#x27;s Paddle. Which is super nice, but integrating it with something like React appears to be a hack-ish mess as it requires jQuery, so not ideal. Also their fees are almost double Stripe.<p>I think I can use PayPal.... I&#x27;ve heard some horror stories though, but willing to give it a shot.<p>Question is, do people still use Paypal?<p>Do you lose conversions when it comes to the redirecting the user to Paypal&#x27;s credit card &#x2F; login page?<p>Cheers
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bartoszhernas
We had been using different providers but sticked with Paddle. It's not more
expensive if you think about benefits you get.

1) We started with Braintree. We had to implement their SDK, and then we were
charging PayPal and Credit Cards. Each transaction had to be accounted by us,
we had to specify how much VAT. In Europe it's tricky because you have to
charge VAT-MOSS based on which country customer is from (eg. 20% for UK, 23%
for Poland). So accounting was a nightmare. 2) Then we switched to Stripe (new
sdk to implement) and PayPal separatelly (another integration to support).
Same crap as with Braintree. We only switched because Braintree kicked us out.
A lot of developer work wasted to support paypal separatelly etc. Even more
work for fixing PayPal's constant CSV changes and API changes to integrate
with accounting. Then there was still some issue which I had to manually fix
in accounting. Again: nightmare.

3) Then comes our saviour Paddle. One SDK to implement (so like implementing
only Stripe) but you get all different features, like nationalized prices, one
big invoice at the end of the month with VAT calculated by them, abandon
baskets recovery etc and much more.

5% but hours saved in productivity and accouning. It was and still is worth it
and I don't want to ever switch back.

Thanks to Paddle for keeping my mind sane :)

PS. If anyone is interested we use it at FreeYourMusic.com

~~~
seanwilson
For similar reasons, I use Paddle to process subscription payments for a paid
Chrome extension ([https://www.checkbot.io/](https://www.checkbot.io/)).

Fastspring and Gumroad deal with VAT as well. Fastspring is more expensive
than Paddle but has more features. Gumroad is cheaper than Paddle but doesn't
integrate well with SaaS products last time I checked.

Doing VAT processing yourself sounds like a nightmare.

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h4waii
I'll definitely use PayPal instead of submitting my details directly to a site
for purchase of goods or services.

I might even go so far as to not purchase from a site if I'm not confident
with assumptions of how their infrastructure is and they don't offer PayPal.

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Nextgrid
I avoid it like the plague. Only using it temporarily now because it's the
only way to sell on eBay but deleting it as soon as my stuff is sold.

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holografix
Also always choose PayPal as every time I want to pay for something online my
Belgian bank forces me to use what looks like a small physical calculator
where I have to insert my credit card and punch in 3 sets of 4 to 6 digits
each and then get a confirmation code for me to use on an online form.

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adrian_b
I have used PayPal for a few years, mainly because paying with it was more
convenient than using directly my credit card, even if the PayPal exchange
rates were disadvantageous.

For a few years, PayPal worked fine and I was a satisfied customer. Than it
had some kind of breach of security. The credit card known to PayPal was
charged with a large number of small fraudulent transactions.

I did not loose any money, because within hours my bank alerted me about
unusual activity and I blocked the card and refused the transactions.

Then I got a new credit card. Soon after making another payment through
PayPal, similar fraudulent charges appeared again.

After obtaining and then cancelling 3 or 4 new credit cards, the causal
relationship between making a payment through PayPal and a third party
receiving my credit card details became obvious.

I have stopped making payments through PayPal and I have never had any credit
card fraud problems again.

I have no idea about how my PayPal account was accessed by whoever was behind
this. The only thing that I am certain about, is that it was not possible to
guess my PayPal password, which was a long string of random characters and
which had never been used for anything else except for logging into that
PayPal account. Therefore I believe that it was some sort of inside job within
PayPal.

Because I have never used again PayPal during the last 3 years, I do not know
if there was any improvement in their security procedures.

~~~
MuffinFlavored
How many times over the years did you change your PayPal password?

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winter_blue
I would recommend setting up a subsidiary with Stripe Atlas[1] which would
allow you to set up a U.S. bank account, and use Stripe to charge your
customers. You don't need to be a U.S. resident or citizen, or have any
connection to the U.S. in order to do this.[2]

[1] [https://stripe.com/atlas](https://stripe.com/atlas)

[2] [https://stripe.com/atlas/guides/incorporation#who-can-
incorp...](https://stripe.com/atlas/guides/incorporation#who-can-incorporate-
companies)

~~~
ronaldl93
Definitely seems worth it in the long run... but just don't see myself forking
out a couple hundred USD when I just wanna validate a little app I built.

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namirez
I avoid PayPal totally for any online purchase unless it's the only option. I
learned it the hard way.

Once I paid $5 to buy the trial version of some software tool. Since I didn't
know the seller, I used PayPal thinking it would offer more protection. After
one week I was charged another $100 for the full license. I contacted the
seller asking for a refund, but they declined it on the grounds of me having
already accepted "recurring charges" on my PayPal transaction. Apparently I
had but it was kind of hidden on the transaction and I hadn't paid enough
attention. I contacted PayPal but they refused to help either. Finally I
reached the credit card service attached to my PayPal to initiate a charge
back. But at the same time I informed the seller about my intent and they
refunded me instantly.

So long story short; don't use PayPal and if you have to, use only reputable
credit cards. Never use your debit card on PayPal. PayPal doesn't protect you
any more than your credit card does.

~~~
senux
Your case wasn't a security issue though, right?! Also, I might be wrong but I
don't think that PayPal's offering is of a platform that makes it easier for
you to cancel transactions.

~~~
namirez
You're right! I was being careless and stupid. I was just surprised how easy
it was to miss the recurring charges agreement. That experience made me wonder
what value PayPal actually offers to buyers (I don't know much about the
sellers' side). If people are worried about fraud, their credit card provides
more protection that PayPal.

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duiker101
A lot of power users are a bit wary of PayPal but for much of the average
customer it's still a great option so you will get a request for PayPal.

I haven't had the opportunity for myself yet but I can suggest you to look in
to Mollie[1]. I think that's the processor I will use for my next project.

[1][https://www.mollie.com](https://www.mollie.com)

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chatmasta
When it's available, yes. It's especially helpful when living in the UK to be
able to pay with my US bank account.

Also, from the perspective of someone who ran a successful SaaS for a couple
years, I _highly_ recommend PayPal. About 50% of my payments were via PayPal,
especially for international customers.

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adds68
I try to pay with Paypal wherever i can.

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ltmi600
I use PayPal often, especially when I need to subscribe to a service on the
internet that I don't fully trust with my credit card information. PayPal is a
great buffer against identity theft.

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bluedino
All the time. It's default on eBay. I can pay with my credit card, without
having to give my card details to anyone but PayPal. Also, I can pay from my
bank account directly. I also buy things from people on different forums, and
using PayPal gives me a sense of trust. I can use F&F if I know the seller and
save the fees. Chase runs cash back promotions on PayPal from time to time as
well.

At work we even run PayFlow for credit card processing, which is a PayPal
company.

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ChrisRR
I prefer to use paypal if a website offers it so that I don't give my card
details to a random website that may steal my details.

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Crinus
I never had issues with Paypal and in general people do not complain about
stuff that works. I always only use Paypal since it is available everywhere,
convenient and i trust it more than random websellers with my debit card
details (i do not use credit cards as i prefer to either have the money to buy
something or not buy it at all).

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dirtylowprofile
I still use PayPal frequently because it is more convenient for my client to
pay me in USD. And since the banks in my country have poor online transactions
implementation, PayPal can really help. But take note,

PayPal will hold your amount for months if you are new to them, because you
need “cred” to be able to use their service.

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quickthrower2
I’m happy to use PayPal as a customer. You can checkout without signing up,
which I sometimes do even though I have an account. I don’t think it’s a
problem. As a seller you might have issues with limits or funds being blocked
if you make a lot of money.

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revyuh
Well, I have been using Paypal gateway for the last 2 - 3 years and never
faced any issue.

Especially in India, the process of making foreign payments is very lengthy
and if I make payment through credit card, their charges are very high.

I find paypal is a much better option for both buyers and sellers.

Thanks..

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pmiller2
Yes, all the time. PayPal (and their subsidiary, Venmo) provide the most
convenient ways to pay someone online who doesn't have a merchant account.
That includes a lot of smaller vendors that I deal with on a regular basis.

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zaarn
I use SOFORT or Giropay where available, it cuts out the middleman between
bank and merchant. I also prefer Stripe or my prepaid Credit Card over Paypal.
Basically Paypal is my absolute last resort to payment if nothing else works.

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tobltobs
Imho if you do not offer paypal, quite a few customers will ask for a paypal
option.

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codpiece
Much of this depends on who your customers are. Are they the average computer
user? PayPal is fine, maybe even preferable. Are the hip, ultra-connected and
young? It would be worth setting up Stripe Atlas as mentioned.

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shakkhar
Yes, often. It is more convenient and safer than using credit card directly.
When combined with Paypal credit card, you get cashback too, so you are not
really losing anything.

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faical
Seems Flutterwave [1] fits your needs perfectly. Have you tried it?

[1] [https://flutterwave.com/za/](https://flutterwave.com/za/)

~~~
ronaldl93
Thanks will check it out!

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fghtr
Horror story time:

[https://minifree.org/paypal/](https://minifree.org/paypal/)

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pcr0
When I didn't have a credit card, I used PayPal for all my online payments
since I could top it up from my bank account.

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mapster
I use paypal for personal purchases and business invoices. its so easy and
painless. been doing so for 12 yrs.

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leoEsc
My Europe webshop: 1/4 of the customers are paying with paypal

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IloveHN84
I use it whenever I can. It works just fine for me

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pier25
What about Amazon Pay?

