
Core iOS apps being replaced, one at a time - illdave
http://bijansabet.com/post/23605148243/core-ios-apps-being-replaced-one-at-a-time
======
jasonkester
Are you certain this isn't just you?

I've heard of exactly one of the dozen-odd apps you listed, and that one only
because it's been on the frontpage of HN so often. I don't have a copy of it
though.

I think that people who customize their iPhones to this level just assume that
it's normal to do so. Among people I know who have them, there's a sharp
divide between the small percent who have seven pages of apps and most people
I know who have maybe 3 or 4 apps installed.

~~~
wgx
What he said.

The vast, vast majority of 'regular' iPhone users have never, and will never
hear of the apps described in this post. For them, the default apps are just
fine.

That's not to disparage the choice, just to recognise that regular users don't
care about this kind of thing one bit.

~~~
toyg
That would imply the App Store is completely useless and not a huge factor for
the continuous success of iOS devices. I think you can see how wrong you are.

The thing is, not everyone will customize _all_ apps, but everyone _will_
customize at least _one_ app, be it a better todo list, a better IM, a better
picture-taking app, or a better recipe database. Which is why the appstore is
so popular.

EDIT: clearly the "regular users" I know are different from everybody else.
The North of England must be a hive of phone-geeks living in some sort of
bubble.

~~~
wgx
That's not what I've implied at all.

Everyone will customise their _experience_ of the device, by adding what they
like from the store.

My point is that, more often than not, these users won't replace core apps
like Mail or Calendar - these apps work just fine for most people and there's
no incentive to change.

~~~
toyg
There is no incentive... until there is. The default camera app doesn't zoom.
The default music player won't create playlists (edit -- sorry, it does; what
I meant is that there is no queuing to the now-playing like in old iPods). The
default todo app won't do cloud sync (well, it does now, but it wasn't the
case before). And so on -- as soon as your usage of a particular app increases
over a certain threshold, you'll encounter a corner case and head for the
appstore to get a better app. So a photographer will have five picture-related
apps and never touch the default one, while using the default mail client; a
lifehacker will have fifteen hyper-specialized ToDo apps and never touch the
default one, while using the default camera app.

~~~
ChrisLTD
I don't mean to be nitpicky, but you can zoom in the default camera app with
the pinching gesture. And the only todo app for the iPhone has had iCloud
support from day one, since it was first released with iOS5.

~~~
toyg
You cannot zoom when recording video, afaik.

Also, iCloud was announced in June 2011; plenty of todo apps had cloud sync
well before that, when Apple simply didn't provide the service.

------
Xion
You can replace the built-in apps with different ones but this can go only go
so far as to change the icons you tap on dashboard. The lack of unified way
for apps to interact with each other is seriously crippling the platform's
capabilities.

As I use both an iPad and Android phone on daily basis, I'm find this
especially lacking in tablet setting. An app wants to open a web page in
standalone browser? They will always do that in Safari. Sending an email? Only
through the default app. About the only 3rd party application that I can
consistently use from more than one place is probably Read It Later (called
Pocket now) - and that's only because apps' developers took time specifically
to integrate with it.

And that's basically how it works on iOS now: for application X to interact
with Y, it must specifically account for Y. Any similar replacement app Y' or
Y'' will not be supported unless handled separately. It's easy to see how this
model doesn't scale to diversity.

~~~
cageface
The really crippling constraint on iOS is the keyboard. After using Swype on
Android for a while it is _excruciatingly_ slow and tedious pecking out text
one letter at a time on an iPhone.

I'm using an iPhone these days because that's the platform I develop for and I
don't really miss the flexibility of the Android intents much generally but
the chilling effect Apple's control can have on innovation is really glaringly
obvious in the keyboard.

~~~
Feoh
I think you're missing Xion's point and taking the opportunity to complain
about a pet peeve you have with the platform.

Personally, I couldn't agree more with what he's saying. Users of other
platforms (like Android) have had the ability for apps to interoperate (with
intents, for example) since the very beginning, and IOS is dramatically behind
in this regard.

~~~
cageface
My point is that, having used both, I don't miss the interoperability that
Android offers via intents. It sounds good on paper but in practice it just
gave me meaningless choices. But the ability to upgrade the keyboard was
_huge_.

~~~
lucian1900
Just like for you upgrading the keyboard was huge, for me upgrading the
browser was huge.

The fact that the platform encourages this sort of thing is key.

------
saturdaysaint
I can't say that these are my big pain points. Intents are elegant, but apps
are a comfortable model. Just as everyone has been conditioned by the modern
web to "open webpage X to do action X", you "open app X to do action X". The
workflow isn't as elegant, but in blurring the line between the app and the
document I'd argue that they've done most users a favor. You'd be amazed at
how few people are aware of the "open with" dialogue in Windows.

More than intents and access, I think apps need more memory and the ability to
do some background processing. I keep going back to Safari because the fine
third party alternatives seem to fall out of memory much more easily.

My biggest pain point with iOS is waiting for web enabled apps to load data.
I'd like to see the top 5 pictures on my Instagram feed and the top 10 or so
Facebook updates the instant I click the app icon. I'd like Dropbox and Kindle
to refresh my document list whenever it changes. I'd like cloud-enabled notes
apps to sync/update before I open the app. Of course, this requires some
management (user controls,bandwidth limits, battery level, etc.), but nothing
Apple can't handle.

------
jiggy2011
It's going to be interesting in the long term how the battle between
consistency and flexibility/innovation plays out.

In general people seem to be happier using the software that they know
everyone else is using even if they hate it (case in point, pretty much every
version of Windows).

On the other hand when a "killer app" comes along that is a big enough step
forward to make everybody pay attention, this is more likely to happen on the
most "open" platform.

Apple has done well so far because a significant enough of these "killer apps"
have been developed by them in house.

Take web browsers for instance, even though HN will argue the merits of
various browsers endlessly from an end user point of view they are usually all
so similar as to make no difference.

However with iphone you are essentially locked to safari (or other browsers
which are essentially safari skins).

What would happen if a third party developed a completely new browser that
revolutionized mobile browsing?

If that were not available on iPhone due to apple's policies then what would
happen to their market share?

~~~
glhaynes
_If that were not available on iPhone due to apple's policies then what would
happen to their market share?_

Then they'd allow it (if they couldn't co-opt it).

Apple's interest in Safari and restrictions on the App Store / customizability
extend only to allowing them to make hardware that many people want to buy.
There's never going to come a day that something so great that everybody has
to have it _and_ that runs afoul of the App Store policies comes along and
Apple decides to ride a sinking ship of App Store protectionism into
meaninglessness. Policies will adapt as they need to in order to continue
selling their platform.

~~~
jiggy2011
That's what is interesting though, will it mean that over time Apple will
eventually have to start dropping their various restrictions one by one. Or
does it mean as you suggested that they will just try and co-opt all the good
stuff that everybody else is doing into their own software/devices which could
lead to them spending large amounts of manpower essentially running on a
treadmill.

~~~
glhaynes
History doesn't show them to have had to drop many restrictions; I don't see
why that would suddenly change. I've always thought that it's hard to come up
with a killer app that would run afoul of the guidelines _that's not outside
what Apple's trying to make their devices good at_. I think the record bears
this out. I don't think that's because Apple is co-opting so much stuff, it's
because their guidelines allow what the overwhelming majority of useful apps
need in order to be useful to the overwhelming majority of people. (Because
most people want devices that are good at what Apple tries to make their
devices good at.)

It's easy to come up with an idea for something cool that requires access to
capabilities that aren't permissible in the App Store (constantly running in
the background, access to execute downloaded/arbitrary code) and it'd be a
_horrible_ shame for there not to exist devices that can do those things out-
of-the-box, but the fact that they've so far been forced to bend very few of
the rules implies that there's proportionately very little demand for such
things.

~~~
greggman
That's some pretty twisted logic there. By that logic, if Microsoft had banned
other browsers from appearing on Windows then because no other browser ever
shipped for Windows that would be proof there was no demand for other
browsers? Really, that's your logic?

The fact that useful alternatives with possibly better interfaces and/or
better features (not just more but better) is something we'll never know if
there is a demand for because Apple bans them before we get a chance to know.

Maybe a Hypercard for iOS would take off but apps that make apps are banned.
Maybe an Amazon music store or a Google Play music store or a beatport music
store would take off but apps that sell music are banned. Maybe a browser that
is faster, or more secure or provided more features would take off but we'll
never know because they're banned.

We really only have 2 data points. Windows and OSX. As far as I know on both
OSes the browser provided by the OS provider is used by fewer users than other
browsers. I don't know what the numbers are on OSX but even if Safari has the
highest percentage (doubtful) if Firefox+Chrome+Others have a higher
percentage than Safari that would still mean more people are picking something
other than Apple's offering.

~~~
glhaynes
My point was not that there's no demand whatsoever nor that no disallowed apps
might ever take off if they were to be allowed, but simply that Apple doesn't
feel significant pressure from their customers to reduce their restrictions
and I don't see that changing.

------
jwallaceparker
I use all the default iOS and Mac apps (except for Safari - I prefer Chrome).

I've found that Apple eventually incorporates the best features of these
alternative apps into their core apps anyhow.

------
chrisrhoden
This is _exactly_ the design of Android that makes so many people dislike it.
the Intents API does literally _everything_ that you mention. It is
effectively somewhat annoying in certain situations, but I think it's probably
going to win.

edit: typo

~~~
glhaynes
In what ways is it annoying? (I don't have day-to-day usage experience with an
Android device.)

~~~
notatoad
it's a little too agressive. for example, i set it so firefox automatically
handles all web links, and that means it is impossible to use the stock
browser anymore. opening the browser and loading the homepage triggers an
intent to load a webpage, so android opens firefox and loads the homepage
there.

also, it can get a little annoying to constantly be asked what app you want to
use to do things, but this annoyance goes as you click the "don't ask me
again" checkbox for more and more intents.

------
nachteilig
My own usage barely strays from the default apps that Apple includes. If
anything, I'd argue that Apple has done a great job with updating and keeping
those relevant to what I need from my phone.

------
jbruton
Well that's an easy fix: If you're clamoring for this kind of customization
freedom, go get yourself an Android device.

------
tomflack
This is what ultimately led me to replace my iPhone4 with a Galaxy Nexus last
week. I'm sure I'm not alone.

~~~
nextstep
Not alone, but in a small minority of consumers.

------
emehrkay
How easy would it be for apple to allow apps to register themselves with the
ability to open certain files/handle certain situations and then present that
in the system menu for those who want to tinker with that?

    
    
        default web browser    >
        default music          >
        etc.

~~~
jonknee
That already exists:

[http://developer.apple.com/library/ios/#documentation/FileMa...](http://developer.apple.com/library/ios/#documentation/FileManagement/Conceptual/DocumentInteraction_TopicsForIOS/Articles/RegisteringtheFileTypesYourAppSupports.html)

~~~
RandallBrown
That's not what he meant. All mailto: links will open in the mail app. All
<http://> links will open in Safari. You want to take a picture from your
twitter app? You want to share to twitter from the camera app? You have to use
Apple's implementation, you can't push it through your favorite twitter app.

~~~
jonknee
But it's sort of what you meant. I see "Open in Dropbox" and "Open in Camera+"
quite frequently. Here's more on how that works:
[http://www.iphonejd.com/iphone_jd/2012/01/tip-missing-
apps-i...](http://www.iphonejd.com/iphone_jd/2012/01/tip-missing-apps-in-open-
in-menu.html)

The URL style technique is supported as well, you can send data to another app
by using it's URL scheme.

It's not a perfect implementation (you can't change the defaults like
mail://), but I believe that's intentional.

~~~
emehrkay
Looks like this is a run-time version of what I posted. Thanks

------
nutjob123
Its been said but I would like to point out that this type of customization is
trivial on android. The ability to customize many parts of my phone is one of
the reasons enjoy using the platform. I have recently seen online communities
springing up with non-coders showing off their individualized android phones.

------
mwexler
Hmm... some of the apps mentioned have costs, some require logins, some don't
integrate well with other apps, some don't exactly rock the design department.
While each of them has something to love, I don't know how much real scale
this "replacement" process is. B/c to get some of these great features, I have
to give up confidence that it's "Apple vetted and integrated". For a techie,
it's a relief to have a non-apple capability, but I wonder about the average
consumer, who likes the "free, integrated, no accounts/logins required, apple-
ly cute" aspects of default apps.

If anything, I expect to see things go the other way: Apple will replace
google maps with it's own maps, and any other app that we really love a lot
will have an Apple analog: integrated deeply but controlled by them. Siri was
but the first step, I fear.

~~~
replax
Actually, I do not think so. Apple would have nothing to gain from integrating
own Apps further and/or producing more of them.

However, they have something to gain if the mail app is not good enough for
powerusers and all of them buy Sparrow instead. That saves them a whole lot of
developer/maintenance time and gets them 30% of every e.g. Sparrow sold. While
that may not be Apples main incentive, it is definitely something I think.

------
twodayslate
The only default app I have "replaced" is the calculator app. I use
calctimate. <http://www.skypaw.com/apps/calctimate/> However, that app isn't
important and never is triggered to launch by other apps (like mail or
safari). Plus, I only use it maybe once a month.

Also, you can set default clients if you jailbreak. However, I just think
everything is so much smoother and faster when you use the default apps Apple
provides.

~~~
ricardobeat
Digits is my tool of choice, great design and function.

[http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/digits-calculator-for-
ipad/id...](http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/digits-calculator-for-
ipad/id364500115?mt=8)

------
Monotoko
The default apps work fine for me... I use "notes" and sync it with my google
account using the default mail app. The only 3rd party app I use a lot is
"WhatsApp" - and that's just to text some friends around the globe.

I then have a few games and some useful server monitoring apps... as well as
some comics. 3-4 pages of 3rd party apps maybe? But none of them replace the
defaults for me...

------
shadesandcolour
I wouldn't count on it any time soon. Currently those apps are going to be the
ones you get because the iPad /iPhone is still somewhat of a specialty device.
I don't think we'll see it iOS 6 but possibly in later versions of the
operating system. As the platform becomes even more mature and people begin to
use it more as a primary device I can see Apple letting you swap out default
apps.

------
EGreg
You missed Groups replacing Contacts :)

<http://groups.qbix.com>

