

Too Much Information? Ignore It. - robg
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/11/fashion/11guru.html?ref=fashion&pagewanted=all

======
pg
It's interesting that this is in the Fashion section. I think the reason is
that it's a PR placement, and the Fashion section is much easier to score
those in.

~~~
bootload
_"... I think the reason is that it's a PR placement, and the Fashion section
..."_

I know it's ( _more than likely_ ) a product placement for this reason alone.
I've noticed a nasty habit the NYT has of _purposefully_ stuffing their non-
mainstream news feeds with ads posing as news.

\- First example: Google article in employment where a google employee talks
about google work practices. [0]

\- Second example: Article in Blog section by Brad Stone on companies blocking
social software. [1]

So I'm not bothering to post news from NYT.

[0] I double checked this with the NYT by email & getting a very sheepish
_"YES"_ response. You can read the thread here ~
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=70827> and the NYT confirmation here ~
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=71411>

[1] The author uses information which blindly copies media release information
( <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=77206> ) from vendor w/o critical
examination ~
[http://www.barracudanetworks.com/ns/news_and_events/index.ph...](http://www.barracudanetworks.com/ns/news_and_events/index.php?nid=222)
So I class this one a sub as well.

~~~
robg
As a big sports fan, I see where the almost exclusive role of the paper and
the beat reporter is to help sell tickets. And the sports coverage helps sell
newspapers. It's a symbiotic relationship,

Why should we expect any other section to be different? Indeed, where a paper
only tends to cover certain sport teams, at least in other sections, the
products and companies change.

If I'm a reporter and I get an interesting PR package, why shouldn't I run
with it? Why is it a "nasty" habit?

Besides, a newspaper isn't a purveyor of facts or knowledge, - it's just full
of "stories" that are sometimes interesting. What more could you ask from a
free content provider?

~~~
bootload
_"... If I'm a reporter and I get an interesting PR package, why shouldn't I
run with it? Why is it a "nasty" habit? ..."_

Because the mixing of news with paid placement is not _"clearly"_ disclosed.

So readers of such articles are not aware that _"Journalists"_ are really
being paid to place product, posing as editorial. It's not about news or
stories. It's about disclosure, ethics and giving all the information, not one
sides view of what they want you to hear.

It's _"grubby"_ because the articles if clearly marked, could in all
likelihood be ignored. Just like advertisements they aim to replace.

One thing I did notice was you sure do submit a lot of NYT articles ~
<http://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=robg> Have you noticed many subs in
your submissions?

~~~
robg
I think you're taking things to their logical extreme. An article may be
inspired, and even contain, PR yet still be interesting to the readership.
Furthermore, many, many journalists are paid to draw attention to 'products" -
sport reporters, arts critics, business and technology analysts, etc. Does
Pogue or Mossberg have to disclose in every article that they got the product
for free, and with info from the company, to test out? The important criteria
for a conflict of interest is whether the journalist is paid by the "source".
If not, I see no problem with it. Let the editors decide if the journalist was
being lazy.

And those "stories" aren't editorials. There's a specific page for that. Even
then, many editorials are written by folks promoting a recent or upcoming
book.

Yup, you got me. I read the Times every morning because I think it's a decent
enough representative of news and with less of these things than their peers.
Whether those articles contain "subs" I'm not too concerned about. I seldom
buy commercial goods and a newspaper will rarely influence my choice. If I
think the stories (and that's all they are to me) are interesting to folks
here, I post them.

By the way, do you know that universities send out press releases to announce
scientific findings? When the article appears in the Science section, do you
think that's "nasty" and needs to be disclosed? It doesn't involve a concrete
product, but it is an attempt to get the university name in the paper.

I guess my point is: I think every story in a paper has some angle to it. In
the Times, the stories are usually interesting and well-written and fact-
checked. But ultimately, I have to make up my own mind about what's worth
knowing.

------
cglee
I like Tim Ferris (saw him at SXSW) and read his book. But his book seems like
a long commercial for himself and his "get rich quick" shortcuts smell very
much of a fad. He may be a great promoter and his techniques may be
interesting, but this diet, like the Atkins, seems incredibly short sighted
and, dare I say, a bit selfish.

I like his passion and enthusiasm and positive attitude to improve his own
life, but I'm not sure I'd like to live in a world full of Tim Ferris's.

------
earthboundkid
My favorite part of living in Japan was when I wanted I could not listen to
what people around me were saying. Sure, if I felt like it, I could really
listen to them and understand what they were saying (as long as it wasn't too
far out of my lexicon), but if I didn't want to hear it, it all just became
white noise. It makes thinking a lot easier.

~~~
pg
Yes! I like this about being in other countries too. Isn't it shocking when
you arrive in an American airport after some time abroad and you can
understand all the inconsequential chatter around you?

There's a similar advantage to being in a country where you can't speak the
language too well. When I was a student in Italy, I didn't say unnecessary
things; it was too much work.

~~~
earthboundkid
It's like that scene in a movie where the protagonist first gets his psychic
powers and he can't help but read people's minds. He looks at the woman in the
corner, "...OH YEAH, THEN WE SHOULD GO TO THE..." He grimaces. He looks at the
boy walking by, "..SHE'S TOTALLY FINE..." He clutches his head to shut out the
voices.

It's just like the movie in real life, except the people are all holding
cellphones.

------
hollerith
this guy divitt or hobitt or whatever just gives advice, which requires
willpower to follow. Paul Graham, on the other hand, gives us noprocrast,
which eliminates the need for us to exercise willpower, so that our executive
skills can be applied to other things.

------
trekker7
I don't think the problem is too much information and too much activity. The
problem is too much information/activities that people don't enjoy.

