

What Gripes about Apple tell us about Computational Literacy - _delirium
http://www.bogost.com/blog/flash_is_not_a_right.shtml

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statictype
_I wonder if it doesn't amount to an indictment of the state of computational
literacy._

It doesn't. Developer outrage over this policy has nothing to do with having
to learn a new language and everything to do with imposing artificial
restrictions on the development process.

If anything, developer outrage is a sign that developers value creative
solutions to programming problems.

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iamwil
While there probably are some proportion of programmers that program in flash
want to stay in flash because they don't want to try new things, sometimes,
it's a more practical matter.

Hell no I don't want to maintain 4 code bases for each of the iphone, android,
palm, and blackberry platforms, especially if my app doesn't depend on
anything special that one platform provides.

~~~
raganwald
Two distinct responses, so two separate replies. First, the same old argument
that has nothing to do with the OP:

> especially if my app doesn't depend on anything special that one platform
> provides.

Why is it in Apple's best interests for your app to run on iPhone? What
competitive advantage do they lose if your app--which doesn't depend on
anything special--runs on android, palm, and blackberry but not on iphone?

~~~
jrockway
_What competitive advantage do they lose if your app--which doesn't depend on
anything special--runs on android, palm, and blackberry but not on iphone?_

Let's look at Macs instead. Walk into any large company, which probably spends
millions of dollars a year on computers (and IT support). No Macs. Why?

(Because their half-assed IE 6-only app doesn't run on Macs. Hence, they waste
millions of dollars a year supporting Windows XP.)

Similarly, why do the corpo-drones all have Blackberries instead of iPhones?
Not because the Blackberry has an awesome UI or is cheaper -- because the app
they need is Blackberry-only.

~~~
bmj
_Let's look at Macs instead. Walk into any large company, which probably
spends millions of dollars a year on computers (and IT support). No Macs.
Why?_

Because most IT staffs are not savvy enough to support both PCs and Macs on a
corporate network. IME, IT is often barely competent enough to support PCs.[1]

[1] Design shops are the exception to this rule, since Macs tend to be popular
with creative types

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dgreensp
This is a terrible blog post, because it makes specific claims about why
developers are complaining about Apple's actions and whether they are
justified in doing so, which are torn to shreds quite lucidly in the comments,
at which point the author dismisses the criticisms by saying they miss the
point, he was really just ranting about computational literacy.

So, according to the author, he's really saying "Apple's actions, right or
wrong, relevant or irrelevant, do perhaps call to mind the matter of
computational literacy, and that sometimes people don't appreciate that
different languages are adapted for different purposes." If you read any other
meaning into the article, which I do even from the title, you are apparently
attacking a straw man.

I don't why it annoys me so much when someone abdicates their intellectual
responsibility, but it does.

~~~
_delirium
I read into it mainly that _one reason_ some developers are complaining about
Apple's actions is that they don't get the idea of working on different
platforms, etc., but have an "I do Flash and doing Flash is my _right_!" sort
of view. Which seems right to me, even though there are clearly other reasons
to dislike Apple's actions as well (like the antitrust concerns, and reduction
in language experimentation).

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jchonphoenix
Your statements are flawed. Yes we program on some platforms in certain
languages because we are forced to do so (due to the inability of certain
languages to operate within those bounds). However, if we restrict capable
languages from platforms in which they would thrive, we are effectively
blocking progress.

There was a time that assembler was the best language. If we restricted
platforms to only asm, C would never exist. Where do you think computing would
be today if Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson had shared your views and refused
to challenge the de-facto standard of a platform?

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mieses
An iPad is sure to make your children computationally literate.

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Godhelpworld
I am sorry to comment harshly but this is most WTF article which i have ever
read!

To quote the Author """ Specifically, a large number of developers seem to
think that they have the right to make software for the iPhone (or for
anything else) in Flash, or in another high-level environment of their
choosing. Literally, the right, not just the convenience or the opportunity.
And many of them are quite churlish about the matter """

I mean come on! Some one write a translator which converts code from one
language to another! And stupid tactics are being used by Apple to stop it!

Does this person does not know about the Turing Completeness of programming
languages??? It does not matter which programming language you use as long as
it is Turing complete!

The article goes on to make dubious arguments about computational creativity
on different platforms which make totally no sense!

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_delirium
Turing-completeness of programming languages is pretty irrelevant: different
languages make some kinds of things easier or harder, support some idioms and
discourage others, tend towards certain kinds of programming, etc. That's why
programming in Haskell, Ruby, C, and asm are not all identical in practice,
even though in theory any program written in one _could_ be written in any
other. And yes, they do support different kinds of computational creativity.

~~~
Godhelpworld
Yeah i know they are different but when one has created a bridge between two
languages, disallowing it for some non nonsensical reasons of "computational
creativity" seems utterly stupid to me!

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Godhelpworld
Programming language to be used is determined by the underlying problem to be
solved and not the device interface (touch, keyboard or a Mars rover!). If
some app is more suited to be written in an FP language that choice is
independent of device that app is being run on as long as the machine code is
Turing complete!

