
I'm a Google SWE that's coached 50 through the FAANG interview process. AMA - coachdarek
My name is Coach Darek. I work at Google and I run a program that helps people get FAANG jobs for no upfront-payment.<p>Thought I&#x27;d reach out and answer any questions you have about the process&#x2F;what you&#x27;d need to do here.<p>If you&#x27;re interested you can check out my program - www.codebreakersacademy.com.<p>EDITED: Since this has been asked in a couple of comments. There is no age, location, or CS background restriction for CodeBreakers. We&#x27;re fully remote and all ages&#x2F;backgrounds are welcome and encouraged.
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dilyevsky
Don’t you think it’s silly that Google’s interviews are so ineffective that
candidates need to learn how to “game” them? Asking as someone who’s been on
both sides of Google’s interview process.

~~~
noname120
That's an interesting viewpoint, so I'd be interested if you could do a
critique of the following claim[1]:

> Hackerrank-style interviews suck and they aren't representative (not even
> remotely) of real working conditions. But they are good at something:
> evaluating the tenacity and the drive of a candidate. You need to work hard
> to ace these interviews, and companies are looking for candidates who are
> persistent and able to work hard—even on things they don't choose to work
> on.

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21123588](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21123588)

~~~
michaelt
_> evaluating the tenacity [...] able to work hard—even on things they don't
choose to work on._

By that logic, surely _every_ interview practice is justified? And the less
related to the job, the better?

I could ask a programmer to build a wooden boat, become a proficient opera
singer, or complete four marathons in a year.

~~~
blazespin
To be completely honest, it's actually an intriguing idea. I wonder, assuming
some basic level of competency, if you gave a candidate some completely
orthogonal task unrelated to the career and they excelled at it (assuming no
cheating), would they be a better hire than another candidate?

Maybe! Quite often success at work is determined by getting crap done that
doesn't require the skills you trained for initially.

~~~
Terretta
> _if you gave a candidate some completely orthogonal task unrelated to the
> career and they excelled at it... would they be a better hire_

This idea has been tried. It’s called college.

~~~
blazespin
True enough, and it works to a certain degree I think.

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b3b0p
Maybe this isn't the place to post this, but it's been on my mind, especially
with the recent release of Catalina, iOS 13, and iPadOS and this post made me
recall.

With the hiring bar and exercises like FAANG put candidates through, one would
expect if it's working well, why are the products, software, getting worse? I
would think they would get more talented, educated, and smart engineers.

It seems like it's the opposite though. Catalina has to be the most bug ridden
macOS I recall (I've been using macOS since 9), same goes for iOS 13/iPadOS.
Not to mention the included software applications such as iTunes, Podcasts,
... I've read similar problems with Windows and Android, so I don't think it's
only happening at Apple and I don't mean to specifically call out Apple, but
that's the ecosystem I spend the most time with.

I feel as if the software quality should be improving. It would have less
bugs, be more efficient, and run faster. I feel as if it's not though. It
seems like it gets worse. This seems to be a problem with modern games too.

~~~
mhdhn
Great question, but off topic. I think it would be a great Ask HN though. That
said, why don't I just pile on here: yeah Catalina - what a steaming pile....
:)

------
underwater
How can you simultaneous work at Google and take cash for helping candidates
pass the Google interview process. Seems like a massive conflict of interest
and ripe for gaming.

~~~
coachdarek
This is a really common question and I’d be happy to elaborate.

I don’t collect any referral bonuses from google nor do I provide any internal
google questions to students. What we do is teach data structures and how to
communicate these ideas in an interview setting.

The parts that’s “gaming” is that the interview process is quite standardized
which I’ve found a way to prepare others for.

Regarding conflict of interest, big tech companies have decided being good at
hackerrank interviews = being a good engineer. So I’m training good engineer
in their eyes which is a good thing for tech giants.

~~~
perl4ever
I was contacted by a Google recruiter once when I was a "programmer/analyst"
but not for a software engineer position. I got as far as talking on the phone
with the hiring manager, but was not called for an interview. Apparently I was
obviously "not their type", but it wasn't a technical screen, so I don't think
I was disqualified for lack of knowledge of say, data structures.

So, I still kind of wonder what it takes to be hired for a job that isn't the
stereotypical Google SWE, because even though I didn't (and still don't) think
of myself as a super genius, it's a fact that I was doing data processing for
them which they were paying a handsome amount for (which didn't trickle down
to me) so I felt I was qualified by definition.

~~~
coachdarek
The majority of general Google SWE interviewees rarely interface with a hiring
manager; they're only interviewed by other engineers.

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whycombagator
Lots of questions if you care to answer:

What does the curriculum look like? I’m on a phone and it wasn’t obvious

What percentage take the course and don’t succeed at getting a job offer?

What percentage get a FAANG level offer?

What does the typical successful “candidate” look like that takes the course?

How is this better than just doing leetcode/CTCI/CIU[0]?

How does this differ from /better than similar programs like techlead’s one[1]

What happens if you pay the $8k upfront and fail to get an offer?

[0] [https://github.com/jwasham/coding-interview-
university](https://github.com/jwasham/coding-interview-university)

[1] [https://www.techseries.dev/](https://www.techseries.dev/)

Edit: FYI your domain is 1 letter away from
[https://www.codebreakeracademy.com](https://www.codebreakeracademy.com)
(which is a very different thing)

~~~
coachdarek
The curriculum has 3 main parts: data structures/algorithms which include a
review of the frequently asked topics such as binary trees, linked lists,
heaps, etc. This covers the theory behind them, but also how to use them in
the context of interviews. As our students work through these topics, they
work with a coach who acts as a private coach. Then it's mock interviews where
experienced engineers give feedback and tips on how to improve. Lastly, we
help with the recruiting process which can involve connecting students with
engineers at other companies for referrals.

So far over 90% of our students succeed at getting a job offer. We rarely give
up on students seeking jobs and we work with them until the are hired.

~70% end up getting a job paying >125k. Sometimes it's not FAANG, but still a
really good tech company.

Our candidates come from very diverse backgrounds. Most have some CS or a STEM
background, but the best predictor we've found is consistency; will you sit
down and work through our curriculum consistently.

The difference is that you get a community/network of coaches and other
students preparing for interviews as well as the structure.

I didn't buy techleads' but I've noticed it's been on a "limited time" sale
since August. Looks like they just charge 1k for an online course with fairly
little guarantee of results.

Thankfully it hasn't come up yet, but we're not in this to take $8k from
someone and not help them. If there's a good reason why CodeBreakers wasn't a
good fit and you paid upfront, we're open to discuss refunds.

~~~
_q1cj
Tech Leads course is low quality and basically a cash grab. Very similar to
DailyCodingChallenge (see the 26% one star rating of their book on Amazon),
who also cashed out and actually advertise through Tech Lead.

~~~
dokiace
I knew it. Seems fishy

~~~
algaeontoast
I think Tech Lead has good advice, but the closest you get to any substance in
their course outside of some well summarized algo primers is a recorded mock
interview of Joma basically failing a NCG interview topic (results that anyone
would agree would result in a pass and zero offer even if it was a preliminary
phone screen). Although, I do like Joma’s content when he’s not just
interviewing smug Bay Area posers ;)

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underwater
Taking 15% of income (I assume that's pre-tax) post-offer seems insane. Having
gone through and passed FAANG interviews, I certainly wouldn't recommend
paying that much.

~~~
scarmig
Kind of brilliant, IMO. Target borderline or insecure candidates, give them
just enough help that they're thankful, and take in 30k. Rinse and repeat for
ten hours a week and pull in 300k or more a year.

~~~
coachdarek
Although some candidates come into CodeBreakers with already very strong
interviewing skills, the majority of our students come from pretty modest CS
backgrounds and resumes.

------
ldng
I have to say that at first read, my first though has been : do African
sorcerers can now publish ads on HN to sell their magical powers ?

Not to be rude or mean to Coach Darek that I can only guess genuinely wants to
help people. But, to me, it does tell a lot about hiring practices at FAANG.

Those interviews does not actually tell you that much, sometimes deter
competent persons, don't really weed out bad seed, and yet are the alpha and
the omega of the industry.

Edit: downvote accepted as long as I have actual counter argunment. Doing an
exercice in the vacuum does not tell if you can grasp existing code nor if
you'll work well in a team.

~~~
coachdarek
I appreciate the kind sentiment. Interviewing and hiring the right candidate
for a job is a near-infinitely complex problem. I mentioned in an earlier post
that 5 hours to assess an employee's performance will have lots of false
positives / false negatives. Is this the best way to interview? Probably not.
If this style of interview can be a good predictor in a large sample size then
maybe it's justifiable. I'm assuming the FAANG companies are doing it with
lots of statistics backing it up.

~~~
ldng
I'm not so sure aout those statistics ... Are they published ? The trouble is
the whole industry is copying those practices.

In other industries/sectors, when you have 15/20 years of experienced, are you
grilled, tested and probed like a junior ? I wonder.

~~~
coachdarek
I'm not sure if those statistics are published, but FAANG companies drive all
of their business decisions with data; recruiting shouldn't be any different.

> when you have 15/20 years of experienced, are you grilled, tested and probed
> like a junior?

We get this question a lot. We just worked with an engineer with 20 years of
experience. He signed up for CodeBreakers because he knew that although he's a
much more experienced programmer than I, he was aware that he needed help with
the whiteboard interview if he wanted FAANG.

His Google onsite interview had 3 data structures and algorithm interviews, 1
system design, and 1 behavioral/leadership interview.

Junior engineers have 4 data structures interviews and 1 behavioral now. 80%
of the interview is the exact same.

------
raviolo
These “income share agreements” seem to be an emerging phenomenon. I wonder if
anyone here could comment on any limitations to their use. When someone
voluntarily signs an agreement giving me P percent of their income from
working as E, for Y years in return for some consideration C: are there
restrictions on (P, E, Y, C)? And what sort of laws/rules generally regulate
these in the U.S.?

~~~
algaeontoast
They seem dubious at best, at times I’m surprised that people don’t just find
ways to have a lawyer break the agreement after they’re hired. In certain
cases it could be cheaper to do that than continue being robbed.

~~~
coachdarek
Maybe are loopholes if someone wants to go find lawyers and pay enough legal
fees. Thankfully we haven't had to deal with this issue as our students have
been pretty satisfied.

------
bogomipz
How does one individual with a full time job at Google provide 24 x 7
availability for mentoring?

[https://codebreakersacademy.com/about-
us/](https://codebreakersacademy.com/about-us/)

~~~
coachdarek
I try to be the most efficient with the time that I do have while making sure
that I still finish all my work at Google. Somehow there just ends up being
enough time for everything.

~~~
bogomipz
I'm finding this very hard to believe. I can't imagine Google being ok with
you conducting mentoring session during the work day.

So it's just you then? One person correct? On the home page its states there's
a team of software engineers.

~~~
coachdarek
We have a team of coaches that work across FAANG and other big tech companies;
I haven't uploaded their profiles to the website yet though. EDITED: Although
I'd be happy to connect you with some of them directly.

I typically don't take mentoring calls during the workday. I fit them in
before or after most of them.

~~~
PenguinCoder
I would certainly be interested in this connection offer. I applied with
Google once but the offer they gave was not a high enough level. I'd love to
talk about how to get a reasonable offer and interviews. Please see my profile
for email if you have the time.

~~~
coachdarek
Sure I’d be happy to! If you’d like to schedule a time to chat with me, our
website www.codebreakersacademy.com has a Calendly link available to book a
time directly.

------
newbie578
Thanks for doing this, looking forward to learning from you.

Is there a demand in FAANG for programmers but in Europe, and if so how much
of a difference is it between US and Europe?

What would you say is a single trait which differentiates candidates to FAANG?
Specific college, programmer from a young age, already established experience
or personality, etc.

And finally, is it true that a lot of candidates are socially inept? I.e. lack
interpersonal skills, verbal and non-verbal communication, if so, how big of a
role does it play in an interview?

~~~
coachdarek
I know there is a big Google office in London so I would assume that there is
also a big demand for engineers at other FAANG across Europe.

I think there is a big myth that FAANG engineers are somehow different than
anyone else. Anyone who is willing to invest the time to properly prepare for
the interview process has a a great shot at getting the job. Most people don't
know HOW to best prepare which I find is what holds most people back.

I wouldn't say that candidates are socially inept. However, I've interviewed
candidates where communication issues turn a possible hire into a no-hire.
Communication is as important as technical skills because you need both to
pass.

------
SerialOwl
Did you get approval from your manager, or legal?

~~~
coachdarek
Yup, cleared everything with legal/HR.

------
minimaxir
Isn't this a conflict of interest with Google?

~~~
coachdarek
Nope! We don't teach anything Google-specific, we focus on teaching
programming fundamentals that apply to any technical interview.

------
algaeontoast
15% of income post tax is incredibly steep. Why wouldn’t someone just pay $8k
upfront? If you plan to actually use the service and get placed with a half
decent salary, any of the other options are a complete rip-off.

~~~
coachdarek
Many who might be interested in CodeBreakers fear investing $8k and end up
with nothing. That's why we offer the ISA option to work with everyone's
budget. Candidates planning to use the service seriously to get placed are
encouraged to choose whichever payment options that works best for them;
that's why we have both options.

------
bogomipz
How does 9 reviews all giving 5 stars equate to an overall rating of 4.5
starts?

[https://codebreakersacademy.com/reviews/](https://codebreakersacademy.com/reviews/)

~~~
coachdarek
Trustpilot uses a Bayesian Average to determine the overall rating which is
the 4.5 stars.

Here's a link explaining their methodology -
[https://support.trustpilot.com/hc/en-
us/articles/201748946-T...](https://support.trustpilot.com/hc/en-
us/articles/201748946-TrustScore-explained-How-is-the-TrustScore-calculated-)

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saganus
What happens if I take the coaching program, land a job offer but that offer
is less than what I would like/be able to accept?

Do I still owe you the % fee? or is it only after actually taking the job?

I mean, if I don't taje the job but got the training anyway, that seems like I
would be "pirating" the course. But if I am not comfortable taking the offer
because partner/kids/rent/whatever, I would still be out of pocket several
thousands without the high paying job.

Interesting concept nonetheless and definitely would consider it!

~~~
coachdarek
Hey saganus, this has come up with previous students actually. They asked and
also felt bad about getting free help, but really it's our fault for either
having too high of a salary target or not giving them better coaching. That's
we didn't charge them when they took the job; CodeBreakers will never pressure
a student to take a job to meet the ISA, we're here to help people get the
jobs they want. If the ISA doesn't align with that, then we have bad ISA terms
and need to modify it.

If the standard ISA listed on our FAQ page doesn't work for you (maybe you
already have lots of experience and are looking for something far north of
$80k), then we can discuss alternatives that make sense for your goals and
life situation.

~~~
saganus
Sounds fair. Thanks!

------
oh_sigh
Wow, I can't believe Google lets you do something like this. Personally owing
a coworker tens of thousands out of pocket for getting you a job seems like a
really fucked up power dynamic.

~~~
coachdarek
I wouldn't descibe it as a power dynamic; that's not what we do. We teach our
students programming fundamentals that help them do well in interviews outside
of just Google as well as prepare them to be better engineers.

------
k-ian
Which major tech company has the most difficult interview process?

~~~
coachdarek
Anecdotally I would say Dropbox. My friend who had a 4.0 in College who got
offers everywhere else didn’t pass Dropbox’s interview. He’s a PhD student at
MIT now.

~~~
govg
Famously (until a few years ago at least), even places like MemSQL, Palantir,
Quora, Yandex were all famous for interview processes tougher than the regular
FAANG.

~~~
jl2718
Rejection doesn’t mean difficulty. All of my worst students work for one of
those companies. All of my best were rejected by the same company. Trust me;
the competence gap was astronomical.

~~~
quickthrower2
It sounds almost like the scatter plot of grades and competence at an actual
job (or perceived competence at least) isn’t a straight line.

~~~
jl2718
I agree with this, and I had students like that too, but no way, not in the
case of this particular company. It had to be deliberate, or maybe they were
just hiring their drinking buddies. I don't know, but it could not have been
anything approximating engineering competence.

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mindfulplay
What's with the recent spade of coaching engineers for FAANG companies?

Seems like a niche "industry" with lots of potential cash grab opportunity.

------
jankeymeulen
So you've worked at Google for "only" 1y2m and already coached 50 people to
work at a FAANG? Or you started this earlier?

------
twoquestions
Is this restricted by geographic location, or does this work for remote
workers too?

Imagine for a second you have an applicant from rural Southeast Ohio, which is
a very economically depressed region, and they can't relocate. Is relocation
the only way to get a decent job for such a candidate? I understand if FAANG
is out of their reach what with being out in the sticks.

------
40acres
Please post the income share agreement.

------
starpilot
Is the income share agreement for life?

~~~
coachdarek
Nope, it’s only for 1-year.

~~~
michaelt
Presumably you also get a referral bonus from Google?

~~~
coachdarek
Because of CodeBreakers, I decline any referral bonuses from google. It
usually doesn’t matter anyways since you only get the bonus if candidate has
never applied to google before; most people have at some point so it rarely
pans out.

------
miki123211
Do you have any idea how FAANG companies treat disabled people, people who
need accessibility etc? Does that make a difference? I know they're not
legally allowed to discriminate but... no one is, everyone does.

~~~
ThrowawayP
During the interview, expect them to be fairly generous with accommodations;
the disabled are a protected class and they're scrupulous about observing the
rules.

In the workplace, it's kind of a double-edged situation. FAANGs and similar
big companies will be really generous with equipment, accommodations, and so
forth in general. On the other hand, if the disabled person isn't visibly
(emphasis on _visibly_ ) as productive as others, well, they can become
_persona non grata_ very, very quickly. The disabled person is competing with
non-disabled people who are smart, aggressive, and eager to get ahead
(promotions and bonuses add up to big money), so expect no mercy beyond
whatever little your friendships get you.

------
sadlion
Where is the free roadmap to big four tech companies from the FAQ? How does
the upfront pricing work; I assume someone with a CS degree and some
experience requires lesser coaching effort.

~~~
coachdarek
Sorry about the confusion with our website and the roadmap. We’ve been
changing our website around and still have missed a couple of things.

Upfront pricing is paid 2-weeks after starting the program for the exact same
coaching the ISA students receive and will work with you until you get hired.

Something new we’ve implemented is that we can adjust the mentor ship fee
depending on your experience interviewing. Usually this involves just having a
chat with me with a mini mock interview. If you’re already pretty strong, then
we can give a discount.

------
ianai
Where do you see the labor demand going over the short, medium, and long terms
for your clients? Ie what could happen to slow the market or accelerate it.

~~~
coachdarek
The demand for coders is likely only going to increase in the short, medium
and long run.

FAANG companies have increased their employment of engineers by almost 10% for
the past 3 years. I don't see the software engineer market slowing down
anytime soon. Even if FAANG companies see competition from disruptive
startups, those disruptive startups will need to hire engineers too.

------
nell
If I don't have FAANG on my resume and no open-source contributions are my
chances doomed? Does age matter? What could I do to improve my chances?

~~~
coachdarek
Absolutely not. We've worked with people of all ages and backgrounds, many
without a formal CS background. So having no open-source contributions is
totally fine.

Things to improve changes \- Find people to refer you. This pretty much
guarantees an interview. \- Prepare for the technical interview. This does
take time, but it's a really good investment. Websites like Leetcode are
really good. If you can Leetcode medium's in 30 minutes, you're golden. \- Get
people to mock interview you. This is something we make a HUGE emphasis on in
CodeBreakers.

~~~
NeverFade
Besides Leetcode, are there any other websites that would be at the top of
your recommendation list for preparing candidates?

~~~
govg
You can use archives like the ones you find in Hackerrank / SPOJ, or
participate in contests run by Codeforces / Codechef.

------
gnaman
You mentioned that there is no restriction on the location of the candidate.
So, how does the ISA work when a candidate gets a job outside US?

~~~
coachdarek
We've mostly been focused on getting candidates jobs within the US. We're
working with several international candidates on how to get them jobs in the
US. I've already begun conversations with lawyers to create an ISA that
applies to roles outside of the US; mostly likely it will be similar but
exchange rate adjusted.

------
hysan
What are your thoughts on ATS? What does it take for older, non-traditional
candidates to get past the initial resume filter?

~~~
coachdarek
Every candidate is different, but generally, if you have experience as an
engineer and can get someone to refer you, then you will likely be able to get
an interview.

------
solidangle
What's a good source for practice questions? Many problems on Leetcode are
completely unsuitable as interview questions.

~~~
coachdarek
I would say if you picked only one resource (outside of CodeBreakers of course
:P) that Leetcode is your best bet for the data structures / algorithm
interview.

If you can do random LC mediums in ~40 minutes you’re in pretty good shape.

------
starpilot
How many months on average does the program take for unmarried individuals
working full time?

~~~
coachdarek
Several of our students have done CodeBreakers whole working full-time jobs
both married and unmarried. On average it took around 4-5 months based on
about 10-15 hr/wk commitment.

------
ibmkhd
Is there any age or location limitations?or any other restrictions.

~~~
coachdarek
No age restriction or location limitation. We work fully-online with flexible
scheduling.

Our students come from all ages, cs backgrounds and locations.

------
raviolo
You may want to correct “receieved” typo here:

[https://codebreakersacademy.com/about-
us/](https://codebreakersacademy.com/about-us/)

~~~
coachdarek
Thanks! Updated :)

