
RPCS3 and Dolphin on macOS using gfx-portability - grovesNL
https://gfx-rs.github.io/2018/09/03/rpcs3-dolphin.html
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mikhailt
What's funny and sad is that Vulkan may be the one in the long run that helps
make macOS (and Linux) relevant longer for games.

Imagine if Apple did support Vulkan natively, all Windows games via Steam Play
Beta can be run on macOS easily and with support of eGPU, it would help a lot
to make them run better.

All I can realistically hope for is that Apple continues to close the gap
between Metal and Vulkan, so projects like Metal on Vulkan (MoltanVK), Proton
(Steam Play + dxvk + Wine) can benefit with less work to do.

It'll be interesting to see what Apple does with Metal 3 in the next few
years. If they're smart (they haven't been in the last few years with Mac Pro,
rMBP keyboard+touchbar, etc), they'd work with the Kronos group.

~~~
kvark
> projects like Metal on Vulkan (MoltanVK)

It's not Metal on Vulkan, it's the other way around. Also, kind of strange to
bring this up when the topic is about gfx-portability progress (which is
competing with MoltenVK).

~~~
mikhailt
That is correct, my morning brain mixed it up because of writing of MoltanVK
started me off on Metal on Vulkan.

I bought it up because of the general topic of Vulkan and Metal, not because
of gfx-rs itself. MoltanVK deserves a mention due to Khronos Group sponsoring
it.

~~~
kvark
This is sadly a common misconception, partly due to Khronos messaging.
MoltenVK is sponsored by Valve, not Khronos.

Both gfx-rs and MoltenVK are working in Vulkan Portability TSG, and both are
promoted by the slides/talks if you read carefully. MoltenVK just gets more
attention because it's packed by LunarG and used in Dota2.

~~~
mikhailt
I saw MoltenVK under KhronosGroup control here, which led to my confusion once
more:
[https://github.com/KhronosGroup/MoltenVK](https://github.com/KhronosGroup/MoltenVK)

And yea, the messaging is confusing because of this line on their site:

> As a first deliverable from the Vulkan Portability Initiative, Khronos
> members Valve, LunarG, and The Brenwill Workshop have released a collection
> of free and open source set of tools, SDKs, and runtime libraries to enable
> Vulkan development on macOS and deployment on macOS and iOS platforms

Source: [https://www.khronos.org/vulkan/portability-
initiative](https://www.khronos.org/vulkan/portability-initiative)

That led me to think they’re sponsoring it.

It looks like MoltenVK was created by The Brenwill Workshop.

~~~
kvark
KhronosGroup github organization may be hosting projects of Khronos members
that align with Khronos mission, but they aren't necessary the deliverables of
any working groups and thus can't be official/sponsored.

> Khronos members Valve, LunarG, and The Brenwill Workshop have released

It's like saying "W3C members Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp have released ..."
:D

Basically, Valve released something that they want to look like it's supported
by Khronos. And this trick worked - now everybody believes it to be a Khronos
product.

~~~
mikhailt
Cool, thanks for the details.

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AdrianRossouw
i still think osx killing opengl support is ridiculous.

~~~
pjmlp
Swift and Objective-C API with C++14 shaders vs plain old C API and manually
compilation of shaders?

Obvious choice, plus all engines that matter already support Metal.

Same situation on PS4, XBox and UWP.

~~~
zamadatix
There is nothing wrong with saying something new could be better but is Metal
actually so much better than Vulkan to be the only supported API?

~~~
kvark
Metal isn't new, it's older than Vulkan, and by some metrics I would consider
it better.

For one, the learning curve is much smoother: you can get something up on
screen quickly, but only later discover the advanced features like argument
buffers, manual hazard tracking, etc.

~~~
zamadatix
We are talking 4 years old (3 for desktop) years old vs 2 years old, you're
kidding yourself if you think either is established by virtue of being old vs
new. That comparison was only fair with OpenGl.

~~~
kvark
Sure! I'm just pointing out that your earlier statement was off the mark, and
it posed Metal as "something new that could be better than Vulkan".

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GolDDranks
This is super cool!

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yunobcool
Awesome!

