
Is It Time to Call the Butterfly Switch Keyboard an Engineering Failure? - BossingAround
https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/aiad2j/is_it_time_to_call_the_butterfly_switch_keyboard/
======
mey
I have a stack of new MBP due to being a freelance consultant and my clients
having a high degree of security needs. I use them 90% of the time with the
lid closed attached to external keyboard/monitor. (I am a fan of the "Anker
USB C Hub, 5-in-1 Premium USB C Adapter with Ethernet Port")

After a year with this configuration one of the keyboards has developed a
sticky left shift key. When I jump between the MBP and a 2015 Air, I breathe a
sigh of relief for the Air's keyboard. The air, obviously older, does a lot of
travel, has no key issues.

I have additional issues with using the MBP keyboard. I always feel like I am
burning my finger tips off due to how hot the system always seems to run,
especially up top near the touch bar. The caps lock key is every so slightly
too far right, so I will regularly hit it instead of the A key.

------
DonaldPShimoda
I've been using my 15" 2017 MBP since it was released (so 1.5 years) with
absolutely zero keyboard issues. And honestly, I like this keyboard much more
than the previous generation. (I had a 15" Early 2013 MBP until I got my
current one.)

I'm not saying that my lack of issues negates the presence of issues for other
people by any means, and I think that Apple's "repair" policy of "pay us
hundreds of dollars to replace the bottom half of your laptop because we made
a poorly-conceived design decision" is... dumb, to say the least.

But I don't relate to people who talk about how awful this keyboard is from a
usability perspective. I like practically everything about the new keyboard
much better than the previous generation's, but my opinion seems to be the
overwhelming minority on this. What exactly is so bad about the new keyboard —
leaving aside anything repair-related?

~~~
ymolodtsov
I though Apple started replacing those keyboards for free now?

~~~
yebyen
> pay us hundreds of dollars to replace the bottom half of your laptop because
> we made a poorly-conceived design decision

...makes it sound like it's not technically possible to replace only the
keyboard. Maybe Apple is doing it for free within the warranty, but if so, if
I'm reading this right, you'll have to be prepared that your laptop is going
to come back with a wiped disk drive (new bottom half).

That sounds like an awful design decision. Do I have that right? (I really
don't know, as I have stuck to the 2015 models, and I haven't had to open it
for any reason.)

~~~
ymolodtsov
It's not possible but that's not what I'm talking about. Here's the
replacement program: [https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-
for-m...](https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-for-macbook-
and-macbook-pro/)

It took a lot of time for them to accept the problem but now they are
servicing every laptop 4 years after inception and it doesn't matter if you
have warranty. I'm also pretty sure you can ask them about your data so they'd
transfer it (there's even a dedicated port on the motherboard for that) and
you should do backup anyway.

------
stunt
The design goal for butterfly switch wasn't enhancing user experience. It was
designed to make MacBook Pro thinner.

~~~
thinkling
Not disagreeing, but:

Dear Apple, enough with the thinner!

I don't need or want my iPhone to be any thinner, I'd rather it not bend and
I'd rather have a headphone jack.

I don't need or want my MacBook to be any thinner than ~2015 MBPs; I care
about weight, about a decent keyboard, and about convenient ports. I don't
care about it being 5mm thicker or thinner.

~~~
BenFrantzDale
I’ve had a hypothesis that the real reason phones keep being unnecessarily
thin with not-quite-adequate batteries is that a larger, heavier phone hits
the ground harder and breaks. I wonder how true that could be.

It matters less with laptops, but still.

~~~
ASalazarMX
Thinner iPhones make even less sense when most of them will be stuck in a
protective case because they're too slippery to use without one.

My last Android was a Droid Turbo, and it was perfect without a case: Kevlar
back, rounded frame with textured rubber around. I wish Apple would take some
clues from other manufacturers.

------
sys_64738
If you botch up something as elementary as a keyboard then it's an utter
failure. Keyboards have been a basic design concept for 40 years on computers.
How they could mess up so badly through so many revisions (three now?) defies
logic.

------
PebblesHD
I picked up one of the 2017 MBPs with the first gen butterfly keyboard and
although I’ve not had a key failure due to the dust issue, barely a day goes
by without a coworker asking if I have something against my laptop because of
how loud it makes my typing sound. The second generation ones are a
significant improvement over the first but even those have other slight
quirks, such as random double typing even on fresh devices. When I’m at home
I’m happily back on my 2013 rMBP with the old fashioned keyboard, and if it
was my money again tomorrow I’d think very carefully about what to buy, but
still probably end up with a MacBook.

------
gumby
I loved my 2016 MacBook except that I had to have the keyboard replaced
_twice_. But I have a 2018 MBP TB and the keyboard is, IMHO, great. I use the
built in kbd exclusively about 70+ hours/week and have had zero problems
(except I can't remove the escape key from the touchbar -- but that's another
topic).

I wrote and debugged about 60,000 lines of C++ on the supposedly non-"pro"
MacBook and it was fine.

------
Jack000
I've only used macbooks since the white polycarbonate versions, but my 2016
macbook pro will probably be the last time. The issue for me is that the
keyboard is completely fine 99% of the time, but then a key randomly sticks or
doesn't trigger and it just throws me off. I can't even replicate the problem
reliably.

------
purplezooey
Well ya can't exactly put Alps switches in something meant to be thin and
lightweight...

------
dawnerd
I really haven't had much issue with the keyboard either. Sometimes they keys
go a bit rough but a can of air usually fixes it.

Still not a fan of it though, the keys are just too loud for how little travel
there is.

------
SamReidHughes
There's nothing intrinsically wrong with butterfly switches. Panasonic Let's
Note laptops have had butterfly switches for years, and they work great. They
have more key travel, though.

------
ratiofarming
Yes, it was time to call it an engineering failure from day one.

------
chrstphrknwtn
Nah

