
Ask HN: How do you motivate yourself to do un-motivating work? - moosecake
I've been having issues lately trying to motivate myself to do mundane, or at the very least "unappealing", work (namely, [high]school work). It's not that I'm lazy — actually I'm afraid I'm a workaholic sometimes — but that I always find myself giving priority to another project or hobby I enjoy doing and find more worthwhile.<p>I personally find I have one of two reactions to tasks I have to do: either I'm completely engrossed in my work and won't sleep, eat, etc. until it's finished, or it is the last thing I would ever possibly want to do with my time and I will do everything but that task, even if only to say that I was the one that wasted my time, not somebody else.<p>The main problem I have is the pervasive feeling in the back of my mind whenever I spend time doing something that I could be doing something else. But this other work still has to get done, so I procrastinate terribly, which accomplishes nothing but adding more stress to my life.<p>In accordance with one of pg's essays (http://www.paulgraham.com/procrastination.html), I'm definitely a type "c" procrastinator, only I'm not sure it's a "good procrastination" because I'm afraid it's going to cause me to fail school.<p>I suppose what I'm really looking for is the answer to the question: How do I make otherwise un-motivating work intrinsically motivating?
The only two responses I've gotten to this question when I ask people this is either a.) you're always going to have to do work you don't want to do, or b.) you have to do it because you need to get good grades / graduate high-school / etc. Neither of these answers help motivate me in the slightest — they just imply I'm going to be unhappy for the rest of my life if I keep doing this.
======
mattjaynes
[Edit: Sorry - this probably won't apply to the OP's specific problem, but it
will apply to others facing un-motivating work (assuming they have an hourly
rate that will allow them to do this)]

Answer: oDesk, eLance, etc...

Seriously, my life and productivity have improved dramatically since I started
outsourcing the grunt work I used to dread doing. For me it's well worth it to
pay someone else 1/2 or 1/3 of what I make per hour to do something I would
just stress out over and procrastinate.

With my money I'm buying: 1) Time (a scarce resource) and 2) Will-power (an
even scarcer resource).

For instance, I have a side project that requires a lot of web scraping. I
found a great scraper guy in southeast asia that is a much better scraper than
me and is happy to work for 1/10th of what I make per hour. It's a great trade
off.

I can then use the time and will-power to do all sorts of more important
things to me - exercise, intense learning, systems design, etc. Specifically,
with my extra time lately, I've worked on marathon training, speed reading,
learning short-hand, esoteric ruby concepts, practicing the ukulele, etc.

If you are getting stuck on something you don't want to do - outsource it.
Even if a poorly skilled outsourcer makes it through my hiring process (rare,
but can happen) and they churn out some crap - it is oddly motivating for me
to go and fix the issue and get it right. For some reason I get a mental block
sometimes when starting a project from scratch - but if I hire someone else to
take a stab at it and they fail horribly, I'm like "Wo, that sucked, you
really should have done it this way...." My motivation is then unblocked since
I'm 'fixing' something, not 'creating from scratch'.

oDesk is basically a store where you can go and trade money for time and will-
power. Seriously, how cool is that ;)

~~~
ramanujan
> Even if a poorly skilled outsourcer makes it through my hiring process
> (rare, but can happen) and they churn out some crap - it is oddly motivating
> for me to go and fix the issue and get it right.

This is KEY. There is something about editing and feedback that kicks in. It's
the same "someone on the internet is WRONG" impulse that drives so many Hacker
News posters.

I think it is related to the fundamental distinction between "multiple choice"
vs. "fill in the blank" questions. Prompted recall is so much easier than
unprompted recall.

------
edw519
I'm not going to try to motivate you, because only you can motivate yourself.
I'm just going to share my perspective that might shed some light on your
issue.

I had the same problem in college until a fraternity brother who had graduated
2 years before told me something I had never thought of. He said, "You may
never have a better opportunity to explore and learn new things. Once you
settle down with a career and family, all your time will be spoken for. So try
everything! How will you know who you are and what you're interested in unless
you experiment?"

Some of the best advice I ever got, and since I was a sophomore at the time, I
tried as much as I could for the next 2 1/2 years. I still majored in math and
became a computer programmer, but I did a lot of stuff that I simply don't
have time for today. And I miss a lot of it. Back then, I thought humanities
was boring, but what I would give for a few days off to curl up with a good
book.

Sometimes you can learn a lot about something you are interested in by doing
something totally different. Reading literature might help you write code.
Music may help you with math. Working at the mall or living in a fraternity
house could help you learn how to run a business.

At this point in your life, you still don't know (for sure) what you'll love
and be good at for the rest of your life. So keep doing those things that
_seem_ like they're boring and uninteresting. Many of them will be a waste of
time, but there will certainly be a few pearls in there, too. Don't miss the
opportunity of discovering them because you just want to stay in your comfort
zone. Now is the best time to leave that comport zone and discover the other
stuff. Eventually, you'll be glad you did.

------
scotty79
Sometimes you have to pull off any dirty trick you can google on yourself.

 _Strapping myself to chair with trouser belt worked for me once_ when I had
to do work for customer but my brain constantly zoned out away from drudgery
and was raising my body from the chair and sending it to kitchen to look for
something unspecified.

------
ramanujan
I run into this all the time and have two strategies.

1) Pair programming. If you can find someone to work _with you_ on this, it's
much easier to get rolling and to stay on task.

2) Overkill it. Approach the task as if it were Mount Everest. Assemble food,
water, energy drinks. Go to a place like a library or conference room where no
one can run into you. Disconnect the internet. Block out all sounds. Play
Rocky on your headphones as you're unpacking.

Just approaching it as if it were a _difficult_ task helps.

~~~
jibiki
> Just approaching it as if it were a difficult task helps.

I have literally the exact opposite experience. I procrastinate horribly on
difficult tasks (or just any task that I don't know exactly how to do.) I
guess different people are wired differently. If the OP is wired like me, I'd
advise him to try to do work as quickly as possible and not worry about
quality. Just come home from school and finish everything before 5:00.

------
ScottWhigham
Okay - let's get the obvious out of the way: are you ADD/ADHD and, if so, have
you been taking any recent meds? If not, let's talk about your diet: tons of
carbs but lack of protein? How about sleep - getting enough of it? Lastly,
when was your last vacation?

These are all major factors in feeling a sense of restlessness or being
lackadaisical towards critical, yet mundane tasks. Sometimes burnout is the
term for this whereas other times it is simple procrastination. So which is
it?

~~~
moosecake
"are you ADD/ADHD and, if so, have you been taking any recent meds?"

Don't think so. I'm not on any medication.

"If not, let's talk about your diet: tons of carbs but lack of protein? "

I guess so, but I don't feel that my diet is particularly unhealthy. So far
today I had: an apple, oatmeal, avocado, carrots, some (whole-wheat) toast, a
hard-boiled egg, a sweet potato, and a bag of steamed mixed vegetables w/
corn, asparagus, green beans etc, and just water to drink.

"How about sleep - getting enough of it?"

I usually get 6 – 8 hours (except at the beginning of the week when I'm
typically feeling apathetic about school and stay up late working on a project
or something), so yes, I think so.

"Sometimes burnout is the term for this whereas other times it is simple
procrastination. So which is it?"

A combination of both, I think.

~~~
ScottWhigham
Okay - so those are the fundamentals and it seems as though you deem yourself
healthy. From your diet, I would assume you are vegetarian - is that correct?
I am a vegetarian and here's the main thing I have to watch out for: getting
enough iron. If I don't get enough iron, I am sleepy, cranky, tired-feeling,
and just have a general malaise. This leads to less focus and less "patience"
to deal with the mundane. Is it possible you are either anemic, borderline
anemic or whether you are iron-deficient?

~~~
kitt
Although iron deficiency may be a concern, a word of caution about taking too
much (such as iron supplements if you (the general "you") are not a
menstruating female): you can ingest too much iron. If you are low in iron,
eat iron-rich foods (eggs, spinach, beans/lentils, fortified cereals), rather
than take supplements.

Easy non-scientific way to check if you're low: pull down your lower eyelid
and check the color of your skin of the uncovered lid. A pale red suggests you
should be checked for anemia.

------
bhousel
Sometimes when I'm feeling unmotivated or depressed, it helps to remind myself
about some of the struggles that other people around the world are dealing
with.

For example, I'm sure the average teenager in Afghanistan or the Democratic
Republic of Congo would love to trade places with you. Did you know that 80%
of humanity lives on less than $10/day? A shift in perspective might make your
problems with school seem a bit more manageable.

You don't _have_ to apply yourself in school, but try to remind yourself that
it's an opportunity that relatively few people in this world have access to.

(As a side note, this highlights a failing of the school system itself -- they
should probably put more emphasis on broadening your perspective. It's sad
that so many people go through the school system without understanding why
they are there in the first place.)

------
jraines
In high school I dealt with boring work by seeing how fast I could do it.
After a while I'd usually be able to do it (if it wasn't, say, a term paper)
at school, and not even sweat it at home. Not a good strategy if you're trying
to be top of your class, but it did make me a good standardized test taker.
Also my high school was not particularly challenging, so YMMV.

Also, the answers you've gotten are pretty much true, and no amount of 'mind
hacks' is going to change that. You won't be unhappy the rest of your life,
though. High school is pretty much the peak of that stuff. Later you'll have a
lot more flexibility to put yourself in a situation to avoid it (rule #1 for
this: don't get into debt)

------
jeromec
It sounds to me like you need a good hack. If you're truly the type "c"
procrastinator PG talks about then let's visualize this. This means your
intellect is running on a higher level than the mundane circumstances around
you. Would Einstein flunk out of high school because his mind was in neutron
land while sitting through a lecture on some obscure part of history? He
might, but that would be bad form. I strongly believe you should at least get
a high school diploma (or GED equivalent), because it's too simple.

If you're on this board then you are likely entrepreneurial. You need to be
able to analyze and solve problems. At the end of the day your teachers (now
they are customers) need you to produce either a certain test score, or paper.
Find a way to give them what they want, even if you have to _hack it_ so that
you're not doing all the tedious work yourself and/or simply test out of
subjects.

------
quizbiz
I split it up into tiny tasks on a physical paper so I can cross items out and
feel accomplished.

------
fuzzmeister
As a college freshman, here's my view on high school work: just do it. It's
the only way to get into college. That has to be your sole motivation, as for
most intelligent people, high school work in itself is not interesting in the
slightest (although I was lucky to take a Constitutional Law class senior year
that I loved).

However, don't despair: college work IS interesting. Unlike high school, a
college will let you take essentially whatever class you want. Interested in
physics? Take a class on special relativity. Interested in philosophy? Take a
class that applies the theories of the great philosophers to modern moral
problems. Interested in spaceflight? Take intro to aerospace engineering. At a
university, the possibilities are endless, especially freshman year when you
don't have to worry in the slightest about your major.

So, to sum it up, this is my advice: high school work sucks, but college, at
least from what I've found, is awesome. Not only are you encouraged to take
classes in areas that interest you, the atmosphere and social life is also
incomparably better than high school. Your motivation thus should be directly
tied to college: if you do not do this paper tonight, you will not get a good
grade in this class, and you will not be able to get into as good of a
college, meaning you may not be able to take high-quality classes in the areas
that really interest you. It may seem like negative motivation, but if you
view college as something good for you (and not just good for your career), it
really becomes positive motivation. Good luck.

~~~
rnesh
I agree with what you say about high school and heading to college. However, I
am about a year or so away from finishing my undergrad in CS, and I have to
disagree with the idea that college work is entirely interesting. It is true
that most of the classes that directly involve your major are found to be more
interesting to the individual. The problem is that colleges will require you
to take classes that are not always directly related to your major.

For example, I am currently taking an upper division political science class,
but only because it was required. I have no real interest in this course, but
my motivation to do the work is to never have to look at it again. I figure if
I can do it, and I can do well, then I will never have to sit in this type of
class again.

The other issue with college is professors. I have had interesting subjects
with the most uninteresting professors. This definitely makes the subject
matter more difficult to find interesting. The opposite, however, is great. If
I have a subject that I can't stand, but a professor that is very excited and
interested in the subject, it will usually get me really motivated to do the
work.

Obviously, these are my opinions, so this will vary from person to person. My
motivation for doing uninteresting work in college is to have one less
obstacle between me and my future goals. I'm sure this motivation can be
applied to many other situations.

~~~
fuzzmeister
Perhaps my opinion is colored by being a person interested in studying many
fields. It is very true that if your interests lie entirely in your major, you
will be forced to take classes outside of that.

------
timf
Shit work is definitely less painful if you "just take care of it" and get it
out of your consciousness faster. I think learning to let that "lesser of two
evils" trade-off motivate you to action is something that will take many years
and will always leave room for improvement...

It works for me to have higher goals. These days, 99% of my shit work can be
easily categorized into long term goals and desires. This does not make them
quite "transformed" into something intrinsically motivating like you are
asking for but what it does at least is make them fairly easy to "just take
care of." It takes the sting out or something.

People that tell you "you're always going to have to do work you don't want to
do" are correct but what you might not realize is that this does not _have to
be a significant part of your day_ like in high school, so this "unhappy for
the rest of my life" is a red herring. You are not going to be as unhappy when
you can align your coursework more easily with your interests. College is way
better than high school. Post-college is even better once you find a money
situation that works for you.

Which leads to some more immediate advice: see what it will take to apply to
college early. I got out of high school after junior year by taking my last
remaining credits at a local college over the summer. My school was not set up
for this, I had to do some serious convincing to administrators and parents.
Almost a full year of work avoided. And no, I did not need a 4.0 GPA.

P.S. Don't get pregnant or get anyone pregnant for at least 15 years :-)

------
johnnybgoode
My guess is that there are a few underlying issues that could be causing this,
and it's probably important not to "diagnose" this incorrectly. It sounds like
you have thought about this for a while. Have you tried anything already to
help with this, and how did it go?

Also, the two responses you mention are obviously well-intentioned but not
necessarily correct. "b)" is totally false and even "a)" can be dealt with.

There might be others in your life who think your biggest problem right now is
your school issue. I'm guessing your biggest concern is really that last
sentence of your post. There's no need to assume you're screwed for the rest
of your life based on your experience with high school work. The rest of your
life will not all be high school work; it will consist of things that are
fundamentally different in nature. They will, ideally, be meaningful and
rewarding, rather than artificial, arbitrary, and useless. You can be
optimistic about the future.

I think you said in another post that your parents don't want you to leave
high school. Others suggested starting college (probably a community college)
early; that's a good idea, or better than staying in high school, anyway. For
some people, that change is enough, but some people don't like either high
school or college, and that's fine, too.

------
Dilpil
Find something you actually want. There is almost a 100% chance you will need
a high school degree to get it, but knowing specifically what it is will help
greatly.

------
Mz
Google up Hoagies.com (Hoagies Gifted Page). You might find some helpful info
there.

If your parents are at all sympathetic, you could ask if you can start taking
community college classes while in high school. Some folks drop out of high
school to pursue college. You might find supporting info on Hoagies to present
to your parents.

After taking graduate level classes, I had a really, really hard time focusing
on classes for my Bachelor's degree. (One thing that helped: Breaking the work
up so I wasn't bored to tears for too long a stretch at any one time.) Due in
part to divorce and financial problems and other issues, my degree remains
unfinished. I have an Associates and two different certificates (wildly
different, in fact), one of which was paid for by my employer. (Yes it helps
to get paid to pay attention to this stuff and finish the class.)

As an adult, I'm mostly not required to take classes that bore me to tears.
It's possible I'll wind up an entrepreneur simply because I am not all that
enthused about going back to undergrad classes after doing graduate level work
and most employers won't let me advance much without the sheepskin. Being an
adult does give you some choices that being a minor doesn't.

------
scott_s
Look for ways to make the assignment relevant to your interests. Sometimes
it's as simple as choosing a topic you like for an English essay. If you're
not interested in your math homework, try poking around those topics on
Wikipedia. Being able to click through to subjects that seem interesting might
peek your interest in the original subject. Sometimes, seeking out more work
can make the assignment "easier" because you're more interested in it.

If you're referring to really mindless work, then I solve that by listening to
something I like when I do it. (Such as music or a podcast.) For example, I'm
a researcher, and sometimes I just have to do some mindless data entry. It's
my data and no one else is going to do it for me. I get through it by
listening to things I like while doing it.

------
funtime_bobby
Have you thought about getting your GED? Maybe the reason why you're
unmotivated by schoolwork is that it _is_ useless to you.

What types of activities do you find difficult to do? Cleaning toilets, doing
math problems, writing reports?

One technique that I use is stolen from PJE
([http://dirtsimple.org/2006/01/smelling-fear-feeling-
future.h...](http://dirtsimple.org/2006/01/smelling-fear-feeling-
future.html)), The "Mmmmm" test.

Generally you're doing these things to get something else that you find
worthwhile. If you can visualize this goal deeply enough to change your
emotional state, like Homer Simpson fantasizing about donuts, then you can
associate it with the thought of doing the drudgery as well. It takes time and
effort to retrain yourself to do this, though.

~~~
bkovitz
Yeah, the GED is the way to go, if you want to get into college. That's how I
did it. The GED is so retarded, you're pretty much guaranteed to score in the
top percentiles. College are required to treat these high GED scores as
equivalent to an A average (per subject).

Your state might have a regulation forbidding taking the GED to graduate ahead
of your classmates. I got my GED in a different state when I was 17.

------
discojesus
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Dominique_Bauby>

This man wrote a fucking BOOK by _BLINKING HIS LEFT EYE_.

After reading his story, you might find it easier to do your homework.

~~~
iigs
_Despite his condition, he wrote the book The Diving Bell and the Butterfly by
blinking when the correct letter was reached by a person slowly reciting the
alphabet over and over again._

Man, how did they not work up a system like morse code? That's _horrible_. Mad
props for the patience, though.

~~~
nswanberg
Being clever would have taken time away from the goal of writing a book. It's
arguable that the book would have been done sooner had they both taken the
time to learn Morse Code (or Huffman Coding), but they quickly found a
workable solution and got on with it.

They did one clever thing, though:

 _To make dictation more efficient, Bauby's interlocutor, Claude Mendibil,
read from a special alphabet which consisted of the letters ordered in
accordance with their frequency in the French language._

------
jlees
If the work that _has_ to be done has a deadline, and you find yourself
procrastinating right up until the deadline, whereby you work frantically on
the boring work for far too little time but _still manage to get it done_ \- I
wouldn't worry _so_ much yet. In fact, if you can gauge your ability to get
things done at the last minute, and you've sussed that you only work well
under extreme pressure, you can enjoy your procrastinating and schedule in the
real work for the last minute. I don't advocate this for a life strategy but
it sure got me through undergraduate maths supervisions.

------
staunch
1) Do the easiest/most fun part of whatever boring task there is to do first.
Most things are not as boring or as excruciating as they seem to be, once
you're actually doing them. Objects in motion...

2) Only do the bare minimum work necessary to get passing grades in high
school, unless you plan to attend college. No one cares what grades you got in
HS. Anything you're genuinely interested in you can learn much more deeply on
your own.

3) Learning self-discipline is extremely valuable, even if you rarely invoke
it. This boring work could be a blessing, if you can use it to teach yourself
discipline.

~~~
TrevorJ
2 and 3 are at odds. Do the bare minimum, but learn self-discipline? Self
discipline is a muscle. Don't exercise it and it atrophies.

~~~
staunch
I didn't claim they weren't contradictory. I don't think they are though. He
could work to become very disciplined in doing the bare minimum consistently
and efficiently.

------
jacktasia
High School is not hard. I just did enough to pass and get into my school of
choice (standardized tests usually matter more here). I basically made a game
of how little I could do and still get by...this is somewhat stupid and is
really only advised if you are naturally smart...whatever that means.

There will always be people that say you HAVE to this or that. In my
experience this is hardly ever the case...as long as you're willing to work as
hard as you possibly can when you really really actually need to.

------
yesimahuman
We are the same exact person. I'm in my last year of college and I'm doing
intro classes just to satisfy requirements. I hate it beyond belief, since I
feel like it's a complete waste of time when I could be working on my startup.
When I have to do homework or study, I spend hours doing anything _but_ my hw
(for example, I post way more on HN when I have homework to do). When I'm
working on my startup, I do little else (girlfriend time stays the same though
haha).

------
raquo
"I have to do it. There is no way I can avoid doing it without unappealing
consequences. I will do it now and then move on, do the interesting stuff."

------
brandon272
"they just imply I'm going to be unhappy for the rest of my life if I keep
doing this."

Keep doing what? Finishing high school? That's going to make you unhappy for
the rest of your life?

The fact of the matter is that you lack discipline. Life will always have
mundane or unpleasant tasks that need doing. It's called responsibility and
most of the time it takes discipline to buckle down and get things done.

------
grosales
moosecake, You need to ask yourself what motivates you. Why do you find some
stuff more worthwhile than other stuff? When you work on something that is not
worthwhile, can you find the bits that can be worthwhile to you?

In my case, even the most mundane work has something to teach me. If it's not
by doing it myself is by doing it with other people (I like to see how other
people solve problems). So here is an idea, get together with friends and work
on the stuff you find unappealing. That way, you'll throw two birds with one
stone. You'll learn to work better as a team, and you'll get the unappealing
work out of the way. Also, I find it better to finish the boring work first
thing, and then move on to the cool work (that way the cool work seems like a
prize). Good luck, and don't forget to have fun, you are still a kid above
everything else.

~~~
mburnett
This is similar to what grosales said but a bit more drawn out with some fancy
psychology thrown in:
\------------------------------------------------------------

I have struggled with a similar problem and know how debilitating it can be.
What I mostly offer here is a few questions to ask in hopes of getting honest
answers for yourself. These tend to turn into much deeper issues than they
seem at the surface. Not that deep issues are bad, but just take longer to
work through. To encourage the full reading of this comment, I have broken
into three parts. I should also note that I am not a certified psychologist,
but will pretend to be one if the price is right.

PART 1 of 3

\------------------------------------------------------------

I think the key is in what you said here: "The main problem I have is the
pervasive feeling in the back of my mind whenever I spend time doing something
that I could be doing something else." When you say, "I could be doing
something else", I imagine its just not _anything_ else. Instead it's
something that internally drives you to become "completely engrossed in my
work and won't sleep, eat, etc. until it's finished".

What is it about this other stuff that seems so appealing? Because it can be
different for everyone, let's just say it's "stuff that makes me feel X". For
me, this was "stuff that makes me feel creative/unique". I found that anytime
I was doing "stuff that makes me feel creative/unique" I became "completely
engrossed in my work and won't sleep, eat, etc. until it's finished".

SUMMARY - Some tasks/activities/stuff can organically motivate you because it
makes you feel a certain way

PART 2 of 3

\------------------------------------------------------------

Now, there are some tasks that were towards the middle of the spectrum ("stuff
that kind of relates to X or gives me some feeling of X every once in a
while"). But then, and this is the dangerous part, there were tasks that were
the opposite of X. So let's say Y = -X and call it "work that makes me feel
like Y". Y work was _terrible_. Y work made me question whether I should be in
the industry and even made me feel depressed. So, in order to avoid these bad
feelings, I would "procrastinate terribly [which in turn] accomplishes nothing
but adding more stress to my life".

This is where you start to go nuts. You feel like its lose/lose (hate my life
when doing it / stressed out when I don't). Sounds like this is the point you
may be at. But as I eluded to before, the avoidance of these feelings makes
sense. Logically, if something feels bad, we will either put an end to it or
try to not let it happen in the first place. But let's dive into these
feelings a little bit more. If you are not sure what kind of feelings this Y
work can cause. Just ask yourself this question:

"What would happen to me if I had a job where I did nothing but Y work"?

Obviously, its much more effective if you fill in the Y. Again, as an example,
for me the question was: "what would happen if I had a job where I did nothing
but fix other people's bugs, uncreative maintenance work and writing a bunch
of documentation?" My answer was (and this is where is gets very
'psychological'): "I would feel like I am not contributing anything special to
the organization. Then I would feel I wasn't unique. Then I might be lost in
the crowd, forgotten or abandoned". Everyone answers will be different, but in
most cases it fits a model of "I would initially feel _________, but that
might lead to ___________, which just feels REALLY scary for some reason". The
second 'blank' is usually one of the basic fears: unworthiness, abandonment,
loss of safety, ill health, etc. I found that being able to honestly and
accurately complete that sentence exposed many subtle, but clearly driving
forces in my everyday and long term decision making.

SUMMARY - Answer the question: "What would happen to me if I had a job where I
did nothing but Y work"?

PART 3 of 3

\------------------------------------------------------------

Once you see that some work "makes you feel Y", and that Y feelings suck, its
easy to understand why procrastination might happen. But because some of these
tasks seem necessary (I'm afraid it's going to cause me to fail school), you
try to find a way to do them. So let's address your specific question: "How do
I make otherwise un-motivating work intrinsically motivating".

I would say you could accomplish this to two degrees:

* first degree - somehow believe that doing Y work will NOT result in something that seems terrible (answer to SUMMARY question above)

* second degree - figure out how Y work can let you feel traces or bits of X

Imagine, abstractly, that the first or second degree is possible. Do you think
you would procrastinate less? I imagine you would because you would not be
avoiding what seems like the realization of something terrible.

Now, these two suggestions don't seem very actionable (i.e., 'okay now
what?'). Things you can actually do or take action on usually results in a
change of behaviors and patterns. Unfortunately, behaviors and patterns become
so specific to a given person that to give a general diagnoses would be a
waste of your time. Thus, you have to find the change that works for you. I
will continue to provide a personal example, but be sure to read the summary
at the end as it will give you a more specific question to be asking yourself
and others.

My major catalyst turned out to be a "positive vs. negative framing"
situation. I framed all of my Y work as "negative." Anytime I would be
assigned something in the Y work category I would have quick and subtle
thoughts run through my mind, "Great... now I have to put up with this crap
again. This work is so meaningless and doesn't even make sense. What I really
want to work on is X. But this Y work is holding me back... how dare you Y
work!".

Framing my current or future situation in this negative way didn't allow _me_
to provide myself with any "intrinsic motivation". Instead my motivation was
thinking about all of the cool X work I could be doing. By simply identifying
the framing of my thinking, catching myself in the "quick and subtle" negative
thought process and a bit of self-coaching, my stress level (and thus
happiness) shifted dramatically! Doing these tasks became much easier. The
reason this happened was because I was able to stop my "quick and subtle
negative thoughts" and tell myself things more along the lines of "okay, so it
looks like we were assigned some Y work. Is Y work really _that_ bad? It is
going to kill me. Probably not. In fact, I can't believe they are paying me to
do Y work. Oh look it's sunny outside!". Again, this was a behavior or pattern
that was specific to me. Yours may not be the same, but your outcome should
be.

SUMMARY - find out what behaviors or patterns are holding you back from
achieving the "first or second degree" and change them

TIME TO START

\------------------------------------------------------------

So, in summary, look into what about the Y work really makes you avoid it.
Then, determine if what you are avoiding is as bad as it seems. It is at this
point that honesty really pays off (Personally, I could have easily answered
this question with more "quick and subtle negative thoughts", but that would
defeat the purpose). Finally if it doesn't seem worth avoiding, change your
pattern or your behavior to something that serves you better. To provide some
encouragement, I have been able to achieve the "second degree" with my job. I
literally went from despising it to enjoy it! It seems impossible, but it's
true. I could really have just responded with the comment "Oh hey, that sucks.
You should do more positive framing". But my guess is that would not have
helped you that much. Instead, the change needs to be specific to you.

It's easy to just shove these kind of things to the side, but situations like
this can cause a great deal of stress and unhappiness. I am sorry that you are
currently experiencing it. But, my advice would be instead of taking a large
risk: switching jobs, switching careers, dropping out of school, etc., try
taking a small risk: asking yourself if what you are avoiding is worth the
stress of avoidance.

------
aagnihot
My friends used to come over my place. We used to sit together, discuss
what/how to do it, have drinks and complete it. So we essentially converted
"Boring task completion time" into "Socializing and fun time".

------
misterbwong
Wise words handed down to me: SUCK IT UP and take care of it.

Yea HS busy work can be idiotic. Yea, you could be using the time for
something more interesting/better/cooler/profitable. The simple fact is that
the work needs to be done.

If you must find motivation, use the fact that if it's not done, you won't be
able to work on the other more interesting things. There are some tasks that
you must do but will never feel motivated to do. Find a way to do finish these
things as fast as is viable, then go work on the interesting stuff.

------
lanstein
I listen to Voodoo People by Prodigy on repeat. That was the only way I was
able to write my papers in high school.

~~~
aerique
Music for me as well. For years at work I put on the headphones & Frontline
Assembly and channeled the hate into productive work. Although lately it has
been a Masters of Flamenco Guitar CD.

I seem to have the same personality as the OP but I've found it to be less of
a problem as I get older.

------
gcheong
Have a look at the book "Procrastination - Why you do it, what to do about it
now" by Jane Burka and Lenora Yuen.

------
jiaaro
fogbugz... Being able to guess how long it will take, and then meet your own
deadline is strangely fun in itself.

If you have trouble getting started on your work, just make a few subcases,
and estimate them as well.

As quizbiz said, crossing the todo's off your list makes it feel like you're
accomplishing something :)

------
wooster
I listen to repetitive, energetic music. Metal, techno, acid jazz, etc.

That, and caffeine.

------
nearestneighbor
Coffee, if you need to power through a few hours of boring and tedious stuff.
Works better if you are not a regular coffee drinker.

------
lionhearted
> The only two responses I've gotten to this question when I ask people this
> is either a.) you're always going to have to do work you don't want to do,
> or b.) you have to do it because you need to get good grades / graduate
> high-school / etc.

High school:

1\. Some learning.

2\. A credential.

3\. Some socializing and extracurricular.

4\. A "rite of passage" in Western society.

That's why people do high school. They don't normally phrase it like that,
they say, "Well, everyone's doing it, it's normal, and it sucks, but you have
to do it" - but the reason why is for some mix of learning, credentialing,
"other benefits" (normal socializing, team sports, student council, whatever),
and finally, the "rite of passage" aspect.

So this isn't exactly what you asked, but there are options besides high
school which will be more motivating, interesting, and beneficial in the long
term - if you're talented and disciplined enough to get by without the
structure. If you do so, the first goal you ought to consider setting for
yourself will be replacing the learning, credentialing, and socializing/other
benefits (more on the rite of passage in a moment).

Learning - there's some skills in high school that you probably wouldn't be
bothered to teach yourself outside of it. Look up your curriculum, and make
sure you get decent enough at math, get introduced to the branches of science,
read a little history, and make sure you have decent reading/writing skills.
It's not hard to learn at a much faster rate than you do in high school.
That's easy to replace.

Next is the credentialing aspect. You can forgo high school entirely if you're
doing very interesting things with your time - no one will care if you've
built a company, or organized charity events, or published articles in the
newspaper, or anything really interesting. You can say, "Yes, I was working on
[journalism/coding/sales/whatever] and thought that was more important than
high school", and that'll work if you're outside the traditional track. But if
you want to go to college and be salaried later, not having a H.S. degree
could be a problem.

But it's a fixable problem - go to an adult learning center or alternative
high school. Tell them you're emancipated from your parents, independent,
working for yourself, and don't have time for normal high school. Ask how they
can help. Doing it this way, you can get a real, genuine high school degree
(sometimes with a very high GPA actually). After that, it's all on your
standardized testing and other requirements to get into university. Maybe the
highest level unis look into which HS you went to, but most state schools just
plug your GPA into their formula and off you go.

Finally, the socializing/extracurricular aspect. This is also easy to replace.
Take up some extracurriculars. A martial arts, some kind of science society,
some kind of nature-based organization, a hiking group, a cycling group, maybe
a couple of them. It's important you're in face to fact contact with people
and developing your interests, so don't neglect that part if you move on.

Finally - the rite of passage. My advice here might be a touch controversial -
forgot bowing, kneeling, scraping, and "paying your dues" via rites of
passage. Seriously. If the benefits from an activity outside of the fact that
"that's just how it's done" doesn't appeal to you, then try to find a way to
get what you want without going through the wasted motions. Everyone
successful throughout history had to depart from convention. But you _will_
get hostility, and expect that. I found this quote by Bertrand Russel
recently, and it was quite insightful to me:

"Conventional people are roused to fury by departures from convention, largely
because they regard such departures as a criticism of themselves."

So how do I know all this stuff? I dropped out of a private high school to
self teach myself business and computers, and went and "scummed" around the
local university just absorbing it. Later I re-enrolled in HS, this time in a
gifted and talented program. Also very boring, also dropped out, got an adult
high school degree (an actual degree, not just a GED), and with decent
standardized testing scores, got a full ride scholarship to a decent college.
Dropped out after 3 semesters there to start a company, which was successful,
and I've since traveled all over the world doing all sorts of interesting
things. I don't regret my decisions for a minute - high school? Hah,
seriously, what a waste of time. I'm expecting my first child soon, and going
to give him or her options to start doing interesting things outside of the
mainstream starting around age 12, with just enough tutoring/parent teaching
to get overviews of the important knowledge and enrollment in extracurriculars
for the socializing and personal growth.

High school is fundamentally un-motivating, because it wasn't built for you.
It's for people who want to be led down a reasonably certain and secure path
and life. Stick with it if you don't have a better option, but if you do, go
for it. With the growth of communication and freely accessible knowledge
online, going outside the convention is more possible than ever. You will take
hostility and abuse from people who don't understand you though, so be
prepared for that. Everyone makes their own judgment calls, but it was
definitely worth it for me in the end.

------
bkovitz
> I've been having issues lately trying to motivate myself to do mundane, or
> at the very least "unappealing", work (namely, [high]school work). It's not
> that I'm lazy — actually I'm afraid I'm a workaholic sometimes — but that I
> always find myself giving priority to another project or hobby I enjoy doing
> and find more worthwhile. I personally find I have one of two reactions to
> tasks I have to do: either I'm completely engrossed in my work and won't
> sleep, eat, etc. until it's finished, or it is the last thing I would ever
> possibly want to do with my time and I will do everything but that task

Amen, brother. Same here.

Here are some things I've done about this, with some success:

1\. "Pair" on it, even if it's not programming. Just doing the job with
someone else often makes it a lot easier. Maybe it's theoretically not as
efficient a use of time, but, bottom line, the unpleasant task gets done.

2\. Find a way to not do it. That is, instead of procrastinating, cancel the
task. This approach calls for creativity: you might redefine your goal so the
icky task isn't necessary, or you might pay someone to do it (this is how my
kitchen stays so clean), or you might abandon the larger goal that's driving
the boring task (e.g. drop out of college), or who knows.

3\. If the problem is simply lack of momentum rather than true revulsion
toward the task, the 5M method ramps up momentum without too much pain.
[http://false-epiphany.com/2009/04/incompletion-causes-and-
so...](http://false-epiphany.com/2009/04/incompletion-causes-and-solutions/4/)
I usually find that it takes me about two to three days to ramp up momentum so
I'm merrily humming along and don't need to play any more mind games with
myself. Kinda slow, but it does work. A variation: Wait until the deadline,
and rush; or do a rush job right now, with a fairly short time limit, after
which you have a hard commitment to go do something fun with someone,
somewhere else.

4\. Pause and theorize about the task. Why does it arise? What
social/physical/mathematical givens and relationships explain its existence?
Why these tools? What other tools could do it? What change in the broader
world could make it obsolete, or change the way it's done? What is the
absolute minimum you could do and still get the benefits? What is the most
efficient way to do it? Optimizing is "bad", but it's also fun, and it gets
your mind immersed in the task. Devise the most efficient method you can for
doing it, and test your method/skill by measuring your results.

5\. Just fucking do it. Sometimes ya gotta suck it in and deal with it. For
inspiration, read what Paul Graham says about determination.
<http://www.paulgraham.com/determination.html> Take pride in your will of
iron, and taste the sweet fruit at the end of a forced march, when your sweat
has dried and the Sun hangs low in the sky. However, if your whole life is
sucking in and dealing with, it's time to make a systemic change. Don't turn
into G. Gordon Liddy or something.

I have found #1 to be the most effective by far, but it's very hard to find a
good pair partner for crud like writing a meaningless paper for some stupid
class. I have also found #5 surprisingly effective. It's usually been my last
resort, but empirically, that weird attitude shift, the resulting commitment,
and all-out expenditure of energy actually feel good. You might do a couple
"forced marches" and take notes on your own emotional state, to see if the
same is true for you. (This is actually a form of #4.)

------
ddemchuk
I've found myself in a similar boat for a long time now. Go see your doctor
and get referred to a psychiatrist for an evaluation.

Not that medication is the only solution, but ADHD can manifest itself in
different ways and sometimes taking something can help you bridge the gap.

~~~
biznerd
ADD can be an advantage if you learn how to concentrate and control your
impulses (read Richard Branson's biography). Plus the OP is in high school.
How many people here can say they had motivation and concentration problems in
high school? An individual's brain isn't fully developed until his or her late
20s.

~~~
ddemchuk
I agree with you, but when I was in high school I was able to slack off and do
things an hour before they were due and got a good GPA simply because I was
intelligent enough to pull it off. I had no reason to believe anything might
be wrong with me. Now, 5 years later, I'm struggling to keep myself focused
and can look back and realize that this might have been manifesting a lot
longer than I thought.

Like I said, it's not the end all solution but it is worth exploring.

------
zackattack
You don't have to get a high school degree. Seriously. But there is some
unpleasant work that needs to be done. High school is not unpleasant work that
needs to be done.

~~~
moosecake
"High school is not unpleasant work that needs to be done." Could you
elaborate on that?

~~~
jpwagner
Hard to read...he's saying there are two categories within "unpleasant work":
necessary, unnecessary. School is in the latter.

~~~
moosecake
oh, I see. I agree, but my parents don't, and I can't support myself yet.

~~~
zackattack
so prioritize. learn a set of valuable skills that will allow you to support
yourself. then drop out.

