

'Junkware' comes standard on Verizon, T-Mobile smart phones - bjplink
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2010/07/android-junkware.html

======
pilif
On the PCs, you could at least uninstall the "value added" software bundles.
Or if that didn't go well (we all know how these uninstallers work), you could
at least buy another copy of Windows and install that after wiping the
installation clean.

On the smartphones, you have to go the dubious route of using security flaws
in the firmware to install a custom ROM, on the way invalidating your
warranty.

That's why I was so happy about the Nexus One as that came (mostlly _cough_
Amazon MP3 _cough_ ) "pristine" out of the box and you can even officially
install a custom ROM image (still invalidating the warranty though, but at
least the procedure is officially sanctioned and thus probably continues to
work even as the firmware gets updated).

Too bad Google won't do a Nexus two.

~~~
illumin8
This, I think, will be the major downfall of Android. Similar to the
destruction of the Windows brand by letting OEMs install trialware,
shovelware, etc, the carriers will do anything to make an extra buck. This is
why Apple put their foot down and refused to let the carrier touch the
software on the phone. And rightly so... In the carrier world we'd all have
trial versions of Norton Antivirus that ask for your credit card number when
you're trying to make a call...

Watch, it will happen with Android. The carriers have just figured out how to
write Android apps, and Google is doing nothing to force them to keep their
phones clean.

~~~
ams6110
Who will the two characters be in the Apple commercials? With PC vs. Mac we
had the Bill-Gatesy looking guy straight out of accounting, and the cool laid
back Mac guy. Who will it be for the Android vs. iPhone commercials?

------
jrockway
Apparently the Droid X comes with extra _hardware_ that bricks the phone if
you try to root it:

<http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2366536,00.asp>

[http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/droid-x-
discussion/3330-h...](http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/droid-x-
discussion/3330-how-droid-x-locked-down-let-me-tell-you-what-i-know.html)

I wish people wouldn't do business with such consumer-unfriendly
organizations. Or rather, I wish this was illegal.

~~~
billybob
Well, your first wish has some small fulfilment. I had been thinking of
getting a Droid, but after reading about this, I no longer trust Motorola. Any
idea if HTC is better?

~~~
cheald
The Nexus One has a bootloader that can be unlocked by just sending a debug
command; it's very friendly to modding. Sending that command does trip a
hardware flag that voids your warranty, but actually getting custom firmware
onto the device is dead easy.

~~~
nitrogen
So reloading the original firmware doesn't reactivate the warranty?

~~~
cheald
Correct. Unlocking the bootloader trips a hardware flag that says "This
bootloader has been unlocked", which voids the warranty. To date, nobody has
been able to figure out how to un-trip that flag, though there was a brief
window in which you could hack a custom ROM onto the device without unlocking
it, but that was patched out with FRF91.

Personally, I think that's pretty reasonable, since third-party firmwares
could potentially do things to the hardware that'd cause damage, and it's
silly for hardware makers to promise to fix things caused by user negligence.

------
jckarter
Google should do what the Mozilla project does with Firefox and use their
Android trademark to enforce user-experience standards before this becomes an
epidemic. If the carriers take their Android code and use it to punch their
customers in the face like this, don't let them call it Android anymore.

~~~
wmf
That likely would result in near-zero market share for Android.

~~~
roc
Why? No-one's interested in the Android mark as-is. That's the real criticism
of that suggestion.

If Google threatened to take away their rights to use the Android name or logo
they wouldn't bat an eye. The manufacturers and carriers are after the modern
OS and saving the development time involved in "catching up" from their
horrible old systems.

They prefer that their customers don't build up brand loyalty to something
they don't control. Why do you think Verizon is selling _Droid_ phones?

~~~
wmf
I guess I wasn't clear. If Google says "ship vanilla Android or nothing"
(basically the same policy as Apple), carriers will choose some other OS that
lets them load crapware. If Google says "you can choose to ship vanilla
Android™ or DroidWeasel", I agree with you that the carriers will simply
rebrand it.

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Tichy
The original Nexus One from Google is still the only Android device I would
buy. I worry what comes next, since Google doesn't seem to plan doing that
kind of thing anymore :-(

~~~
chc
Likewise. I was considering getting an Android phone when my contract with
AT&T was up, but nobody seems interested in building a good one. No wonder
Apple was able to walk in and slap these guys around so effortlessly.

------
stanleydrew
Sprint did a lot of this too. On the EVO I got at Google I/O I remember a
Sprint NexTel Cup Nascar App that was completely uninstallable. I've since
gotten rid of the phone. I much prefer my N1 with stock Android.

~~~
mxavier
I just got an EVO about a week ago. I don't understand why a company would be
so confident that every single user wants a nascar app that they would remove
the option to uninstall. Put the app in the marketplace, make it free, let
people uninstall it and then put it back on their phone if they decide they're
interested in it again. How is it that people so opinionated are permitted to
select the software for a phone that thousands of people will use?

~~~
woodall
Sprint and Nascar are partners- see NASCAR Sprint Cup[1]. Because of this, it
is in their best interest that people watch/become aware of NASCAR. It's like
product placement, but on your phone.

[1]
[http://www2.sprint.com/mr/cda_pkDetail.do?id=1160&ECID=v...](http://www2.sprint.com/mr/cda_pkDetail.do?id=1160&ECID=vanity:sprintcup)

~~~
nooneelse
We know the reasoning, but we think it is poor reasoning. If a user doesn't
want the app and can't get rid of it, then now they have something against the
Nascar brand. That isn't good advertising.

------
ilamont
I heard about a similar situation for AT&T's first Android phone, the
BackFlip, which besides coming with uninstallable crapware, forced Yahoo
search as the default on all applications that used it.

I wonder if Google had to give the carriers this flexibility in order to get
them to use the OS?

~~~
illumin8
They did. Google basically says: "Use our OS for free and you don't have to
pay for a Windows license; plus it's open source so you can modify it in any
way you want."

So we end up with a carrier free for all. Marketroids gone wild, infesting
your phone with a million "punch the monkey" and Banzai Buddy adware, spyware,
and pop-ups. This is the future of Android.

I have a feeling it will become easier for hackers to root their phones and
install a clean OS, so it will be just like buying a cheap Dell computer -
wipe it clean, put Ubuntu on it, and you're golden.

------
kylelibra
This is worse junkware than Apple's compass or stocks apps. Way worse.
Hopefully this doesn't begin to happen more often.

~~~
orangecat
I have no doubt that it will. When has marketing ever gotten less intrusive?

This is another example of why Google really needs to continue making their
own phones with stock Android, no crapware, and no root/ROM restrictions.

~~~
sprout
I'm definitely beginning to think the Droid will be my last Motorola phone.
Even the fact that you can't uninstall Amazon and the core Google apps is a
little grating.

------
camtarn
Orange UK does this as well. I bought my HTC Desire from Orange, with no
intention of doing anything to it, but I ended up having to reflash it with a
debranded ROM because the bundled software (much of which was demoware) could
not be removed and was cluttering up my phone.

Now I'm stuck eyeing every software update warily in case it screws up some
critical piece of phone functionality - like the last system update, which
caused wifi to stop working and required a full reflash and an £8 network
unlock code to fix. Thanks Orange...

I honestly don't mind too much if some extra software is installed when I get
a phone - as long as I can remove it!

------
akshat
Microsoft seems to have learnt its lesson well here for WP7. They apparently
will not allow the carriers to place more than a couple of apps which will be
removable by the user.

~~~
ilamont
They may have won that battle, but on other fronts things aren't looking so
hot:

[http://www.infoworld.com/d/mobilize/windows-phone-7-dont-
bot...](http://www.infoworld.com/d/mobilize/windows-phone-7-dont-bother-
disaster-211?page=0,0)

~~~
bosch
That was a hack piece of journalism based on no facts and not even a finished
product. As a reader I felt it was very harsh and didn't provide any examples.
If he writes the same thing when Windows 7 is released and provides examples
then I might listen to him. But releasing an article like that right now just
lowers his street cred and makes him sound like he's jumping on the anti-MS
bandwagon with everyone else...

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dminor
My G1 came with Amazon's MP3 store, so sadly this isn't even a new phenomenon
for smart phones.

~~~
cookiecaper
I wiped my G1 without really even using the default install. Was totally rad.

------
cmelbye
This story and the Droid X self-destruct debacle are both reaffirming my
decision to buy an iPhone 4. Apple would sooner run Windows Mobile 7 on their
phones than they would install third party demos, etc on the phone.

~~~
isleyaardvark
Lots of people talk about how the iPhone is closed and you can't control
what's on it, but look how "open" platforms have worked out in practice.

~~~
pilif
they AREN'T open. That's the problem. The underlying OS might be mostly open.
But the hardware you buy is as closed as it gets.

You as the paying customer are at the mercy of your carriers ideas about how
they can increase their revenue.

That's what we get from that crazy model of handsets being subsidized by
carriers. If people didn't expect a (mostly) free phone every year or two,
with some likelihood, this would stop as people would want to demand to get
what they pay for.

~~~
orangecat
_That's what we get from that crazy model of handsets being subsidized by
carriers._

Exactly, and unfortunately that's what "we" want. Google tried to break that
dysfunctional model with the Nexus One, but most people can't get past the
initial $529 price. I wish they at least tried to explain how you can end up
saving a lot by using T-Mobile's contract-free plans.

~~~
cheald
> but most people can't get past the initial $529 price.

Sadly, this is very true. I bought an unlocked Nexus One, and people ooh and
ahh over it, but when they ask me how much I paid for it, they blanch. At that
point, they stop listening, even though I go on to explain that it ends up
costing me _less_ over time than if I'd bought a cheaper-up-front subsidized
phone.

It's really a reflection of our credit card culture. Many people consider $600
over 12 months (Only $50/month!) to be cheaper than $500 all at once (OMG, my
bank account!).

~~~
omaranto
Stop saying How much you paid for it, instead say X over 3 years of owning it,
compared to Y for an iPhone over 3 years. After that, if they ask, say how
much the phone itself costs.

------
mkramlich
well there goes the whole freedom argument. ouch.

------
bosch
I, for one, appreciate the effort that the carriers have spent to pre-install
apps for me!

~~~
bosch
Joke anyone? WTF.

------
w1ntermute
The way I see it, the people who are actually bothered by this kind of thing
will know how to remove it from their devices. On a related note, the Droid
Incredible has been rooted: [http://www.droid-life.com/2010/07/15/finally-the-
droid-life-...](http://www.droid-life.com/2010/07/15/finally-the-droid-life-
incredible-has-been-rooted/)

Some people are saying that the eFuse technology in the Droid X will prevent
it from being rooted as well, but that may not necessarily be the case:
[http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/07/15/reality-check-
modd...](http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/07/15/reality-check-modding-the-
droid-x-may-not-lead-to-a-bricked-phone/)

