
Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game - doppp
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2020/06/22/deus-ex-at-20-the-oral-history-of-a-pivotal-pc-game/
======
trabant00
> ‘You can make any game you want, you can take as long as you want, and
> money’s not an issue’.

> ‘Just run the studio, we’ll pay the bills and keep you isolated from
> anything that’s happening up here in Dallas’.

I don't think this can happen today and I also believe this is the reason we
don't see anything close to the original Deus Ex.

~~~
asdfasgasdgasdg
We get games in that spirit once every couple of years, actually. Prey (2017)
was a fine successor to the Deus Ex tradition, for example.

~~~
ahuth
Prey was an excellent game that I really enjoyed. To me it's not quite the
same, since it's not as dense with people/NPCs. The only games that I can
recall really coming close to Deus Ex are... Deus Ex Human Revolution and
Mankind Divided.

------
ajsharp
Deux Ex felt then and still today like a gift where story was everything,
right before online/multiplayer completely transformed the industry, and for a
good ten years single player was more or less an afterthought. I've never been
so engrossed in a storyline as I was when I played Deus Ex. I re-played it a
few years ago and I was shocked how satisfying it still was.

I don't work in gaming, and I haven't been an avid gamer in nearly 15 years.
From my cursory viewpoint, it feels like every 5-10 years a story-driven game
comes along, but mostly it feels like the industry is focused on either
massive open world games, or Fortnite-esque quick-hit experiences.

I'd love to hear from people in the industry on how games like Deux Ex that
live and die on story are thought of in the industry.

~~~
redxdev
The problem with being on the outside of the industry (or not being a gamer)
and looking into it is that most of the social media and news presence is
around the big name multiplayer and blockbuster titles. That doesn't mean
story-focused games don't come out, just that they don't garner attention
outside of the gaming sphere.

A short list of ones to look into, just to name a few:

Disco Elysium - 2019 - A _very_ weird RPG where you play an alchoholic
amnesiac detective and where your skills are more aspects of your personality
than abilities. The writing is so incredibly strange and wonderful that I'm
not sure quite how to describe it. Your own personality traits sometimes talk
and may try to convince you to be a socialist.

Outer Wilds - 2018 - A game about exploring a small simulated solar system for
the purpose of simply learning more about it. There's a lot to this game, but
because the entire purpose of the game is exploration and learning about the
world _everything_ is a spoiler so I won't say any more.

A Plague Tale: Innocence - 2019 - Stealth-focused fantasy/adventure game set
in the 1300s in France.

Undertale - 2015 - Another game that's hard to describe, don't be put off by
its look but it absolutely lives and dies by its story. Especially since there
are some very important gameplay elements that blend into the story.

Mass Effect 1-3 - 2007-2012 - Even if ME3's ending is widely panned, the rest
of the series is absolutely story-focused and I figure I should mention some
true AAAs that are known for story.

NieR: Automata - 2017 - philosophical weirdness about androids and machines
wrapped up in a pretty good action game.

Bioshock 1-2/Infinite - 2007-2013 - Hard not to mention these in a thread
about writing and Deus Ex, seeing as this series also has roots going back to
Looking Glass, Thief, and System Shock.

~~~
ajsharp
Really appreciate you taking the time to type all this out. This is awesome.
Thanks.

------
unixhero
I have to mention Ross' Youtube channel Accursed Farms' review [0] [1] [2] of
Deus Ex. I would highly recommended watching them:

"I came for a game review and left with a better understanding of the economy
and politics. Ross you blow my mind"

[0]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxOKEsBx4NU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxOKEsBx4NU)

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPwpLDvAnvo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPwpLDvAnvo)

[2]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYLEuQrvND0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYLEuQrvND0)

------
futureproofd
I remember, as a 13 year old with newly acquired PC, spending most of my
summer playing this game into the early hours of the morning. The
conspiratorial story branches and gameplay were so compelling to me at the
time, I didn't feel the need to do anything else. No friends, no outdoor time,
just Deus Ex- No regrets either.

------
notkaiho
We need, in fact the industry simply REQUIRES, in-depth oral history
journalism and retrospectives like this. The "gaming industry" is 40+ years
old now, and there have been absolutely pivotal works in that time. They
deserve to be interrogated and documented dispassionately and with rigor.

~~~
stevekemp
[https://www.filfre.net/](https://www.filfre.net/) is a great example of such
an examination - starting with the classic text-adventure games, and gradually
getting more and more current.

The table of contents is impressive, the writing is wonderful, and you can
download a series of ebook collections containing the individual blog posts.

~~~
WorldMaker
The most recent articles on DOOM are especially relevant here, because some of
the names involved in Ion Storm (though not as directly involved in Deus Ex)
show up in the various tales about DOOM and the early Shareware era.

(Jimmy Maher also is pretty good about citing sources and the book Masters of
DOOM is cited several times as a primary source, which is also why it is
recommended several times in sibling comments.)

------
whoopdedo
For the 15th anniversary Warren Spector, Sheldon Pacotti and Chris Norden got
together to replay the game.[1] Spector and Looking Glass creators also had a
replay for System Shock's 25th anniversary last year. [2]

Deus Ex made me read "The Man Who Was Thursday". I was slightly disappointed
that the other book "Jacob's Shadow" was made-up for the game.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaJ18p4QH2Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaJ18p4QH2Q)

[2]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IzNzVAxk8E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IzNzVAxk8E)

~~~
starpilot
Sheldon wrote most of the dialogue and is a novelist. He also has degrees in
math and English from MIT and Harvard, respectively. Rare to have that
background for a writer at a game company today. So much prescient dialogue,
here's the game talking about the EU/globalists today:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxWlJ_muK0I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxWlJ_muK0I)

------
allenu
What I think of when I think of Deus Ex was back then it was receiving
accolades and a year or two after it came out I decided to give it a try. I
saw they had a really inexpensive version out that was called Deus Ex: Special
Limited Edition, for probably $10 or so. After playing it a bit I realized it
literally was a “limited edition” in that it was just a demo disc. I couldn’t
believe the publisher would rip people off by issuing such a version under the
guise of it being a special edition.

~~~
kiddico
"Deus E(x)specially Limited Edition" works nicely as a replacement title...

At least you aren't alone[1]

Despite being an inferior product, Special Limited Edition was sold by major
retailers for as much or more than the full game, sometimes on the same shelf.
This version was very negatively received, as the similar price and misleading
name lead many to unwittingly purchase what turned out to be an "extended
demo" or "trialware".

[1]
[https://deusex.fandom.com/wiki/Deus_Ex#Game_versions](https://deusex.fandom.com/wiki/Deus_Ex#Game_versions)

------
akhilcacharya
Like most people today, I attempted to get into the game a few dozen times
until I finally was able to get past the first level "my own way" that didn't
rely on the really finicky stealth mechanics (specifically using a GEP gun to
destroy the robot, then walking through the front door).

The rest of the game is an absolute marvel of design. Even for a modern game
the level design and depth of the story is remarkable. The game doesn't even
look half bad if you install modern texture packs. It's a shame that the
themes of the original were dumbed down significantly in the sequel.

I started another play through recently exactly for this reason:

> Smith: Deus Ex and Dishonored both involve a plague, and they both involve
> powerful, corrupt elites turning the disenfranchised against each other.
> When some states discouraged the wearing of masks or sheltering in place,
> somebody inevitably linked me the opening cinematic. ‘Why contain it? Let
> the bodies pile up in the streets’.

~~~
FakeRemore
> really finicky

Is it finicky? The stealth system is very basic and based on line-of-sight and
sound (for human enemies). As long as you aren't running, it's actually
incredibly trivial to stealth through levels without being seen. Even the bots
aren't really a problem, since they have static patrol paths and limited line
of sight.

~~~
akhilcacharya
Its really that I'm just more used to modern stealth mechanics that handhold
the player more. It's not my style of play in general.

~~~
whoopdedo
There's a generation gap here. The information density in current game UIs is
high with status indicators, aiming aids, location markers, objective lists.
Players expect the game to be a DM giving them lots hints on how to proceed
through the game. At the time Deus Ex was made one of the talking points was
realism. Players wanted to experience the game as a simulation. The hand-
holding that's expected today was frowned upon as breaking the immersion. The
article briefly touches on this debate between realism vs playability with
regards to level design.

------
technics256
The opening scene feels prophetic in the time of coronavirus:

[https://youtu.be/zStn70Ot4r0](https://youtu.be/zStn70Ot4r0)

~~~
AdmiralAsshat
To quote from the article:

>Smith: Every time the US shifts a little towards fascism or centralised
control, somebody will send me a link to something from Deus Ex. It’s not that
we were prescient – the sad part is that it’s on repeat through history.

------
justaj
Does anyone here notice the stylistic similarity to The Matrix? Both featured
a protagonist with a trench coat and black shades. I wonder if The Matrix
inspired the design team of Deus Ex in some ways.

~~~
kemayo
The Matrix came ~9 months before Deus Ex, so their productions definitely
overlapped but they'd have had time to assimilate some stuff if they wanted
to.

That said, it's more that they're both drawing on similar cyberpunk
traditions. There's a clear line between the aesthetic of Neuromancer and Deus
Ex / The Matrix both.

~~~
djur
There's a Matrix easter egg in Deus Ex (the cheat code 'thereisnospoon') so
they were definitely aware of the similarities. They're really only
superficially similar in aesthetics and broad themes, though.

------
mdrachuk
I really hope they will make a remake of the originals. I loved Deus Ex: Human
Revolution when it was out, but it’s a challenges to enjoy older games most of
the time.

~~~
ubermonkey
What's the oldest viable game to you, now?

I just played the first Mass Effect for the first time, and was really
impressed by how well it had aged for a game from 2007.

I replayed the first Bioshock (also from 2007) not long ago, too, and it, too,
holds up IMO.

Could we get further back than 2007?

~~~
eyerony
IMHO Perfect Dark is one of the oldest shooters that holds up (play the
version on the Xbox 360, maybe also the XBone, not sure). Yeah yeah it's a
console shooter, but it's outstanding and hi-res + dual-stick controls make it
feel modern-enough. Do note that it has _two_ two-player campaign modes in
addition to regular single player: co-op, and... _versus_. Yes, versus. Also
be aware the difficulty modes change the objectives significantly, and
sometimes also your _starting position_ , so if it seems weirdly short bump up
the difficulty.

I think some of the original frantic shooters hold up alright, for what they
are. Quake, stuff like that. They're kinda niche genre now, though. Not sure
about the early Dooms, hard to judge those as easily. _I_ like them, still,
but...

The Half Life remake in the HL2 engine (Black Mesa) is very true to the
_spirit_ of the original and smoothes its rough edges off very elegantly, but
the original's probably still fairly playable, too.

First mass effect, oof. It suffers from a lot of "which of the three buildings
they made will this quest take place in?". Also having enemies walk right past
your AI teammates, who are busy doing nothing, to shoot you in the back over.
And over. And over. Gets really frustrating after a while. Two is _so_ much
better. You're in for a treat.

[EDIT] on reflection the one mechanic that probably feels off to a modern
player in Perfect Dark, and indeed in many older shooters, is having thrown
weapons treated like ordinary weapons, rather than a secondary attack with a
separate set of items to cycle through. That is, you have to switch away from
your gun to arm a thrown weapon, then throw it, then switch back. That's a
little clunky. IIRC throwing-is-separate model wasn't popularized until the
first Modern Warfare (I've played the first Call of Duty recently and I don't
_think_ it was in that, yet—man, talk about one that doesn't seem nearly as
good on re-visiting)

~~~
WorldMaker
> (play the version on the Xbox 360, maybe also the XBone, not sure)

Perfect Dark on the Xbox One is a lovely bit of emulator stacking: it's
running in the Xbox 360 VM on the Xbox One, and the 360 game is itself running
a custom Microsoft N64 emulator. It works much better than you think it should
given the layers upon layers of indirection; many kudos to Microsoft's game VM
and emulator teams for some of the hoops they've gone through over the years.

A good way to pick up Perfect Dark for the Xbox One is the Rare Replay pack.
Sometimes you can find it for surprisingly cheap given the wealth that exists
inside it. In addition to Perfect Dark and its 360 launch title prequel
Perfect Dark Zero, it's about as complete a set of Rare's extensive back
catalog as Microsoft's lawyers could muster the licenses for (so none of the
games with Nintendo owned characters, though it sounds like they almost
succeeded in convincing Nintendo, and also not Goldeneye which was bogged down
with licensing issues between both Nintendo and EON Productions, the Bond
license owners, and apparently truly scuttled at the very last minute based on
intended behind the scenes features that wound up on YouTube anyway), plus
some fun Behind-the-Scenes featurettes.

------
laumars
> _“We were very influenced by three games: Thief, System Shock 2 and Half-
> Life.”_

Personally I got a lot more enjoyment from those games than I did Deus Ex.
Particularly SS2 which still remains one of the most atmospheric games I've
ever played and one of the few ones to make be jump and literally scared at
times too.

Not taking anything away from Deus Ex, but at the time it didn't feel as genre
defining as the others that inspired it.

~~~
kiddico
I've been meaning to play SS2. Do you think I'd be confused to jump in there
or should I play the first?

~~~
rhn_mk1
You won't lose much by not playing the first one. It's more tedious than the
second installment, so I would try them in reverse order just for this reason.

------
jki275
Still one of the best games ever released.

The gameplay is clunky now in comparison to modern gaming, but the story is
still one of the most compelling in the field.

Agree with the above -- would love to see it remade using modern engine.

------
mrkeen
Phenomenal loading times.

Large empty levels like liberty island.

Brilliant puzzles like picking the lock on an office (destroying the lock
pick) so you can steal a lock pick from the office.

My favourite was the well-timed cache misses that would immediately freeze the
game, e.g. the first time you fire a shot in combat, then restore
interactivity after you die in fast-forward.

But it's all worth it because you're a badass cyborg with a flashlight, i
mean, "augmented vision".

