
How to impress Joel Spolsky - rlmw
http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/25432/how-can-a-new-programmer-impress-the-software-engineer-boss
======
jasonkester
It's hard to believe that we used to get a new story like this every few
weeks.

Joel is such an enjoyable author to read that it really doesn't matter what
he's writing about. He could be writing about some random Distributed Version
Control system you have no intention of using (and he has) and you could still
be pretty sure you'd be in for a pleasant 15 minutes.

I hope somebody can convince the guy to put stuff like this up on
JoelOnSoftware. I mean sure, somebody might accuse him of blogging again (god
forbid), but selfishly it would be nice not to have to rely on HackerNews to
find little gems like this for me.

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kevinpet
I thought about writing a blog post once because I think I've finally found
the key insight to being a successful engineer. Then I realized it isn't long
enough for a blog post.

Simple rule: if you're the smartest person in the room, go look for a room
with smarter people in it.

~~~
InfinityX0
The only problem: I think we all believe we're the smartest person in the
room, or at very least inflate our own "intelligence" some modicum amount,
every time, so that someone who is actually 20 or so % smarter than us we
actually see ourselves as slightly superior to. So, it's hard to make this
judgment call, or, if we did, we'd be traveling a damn lot.

~~~
PakG1
I think that's only true for people who've never been humbled. If you've been
humbled, you are more easily able to question yourself and recognize if you're
not the smartest in the room. At least, that's the way it worked for me. :)

~~~
danenania
I think it mostly has to do with whether someone's ego is all wrapped up in
his or her intelligence, which is pretty common for people of above average
intelligence. If it is, judgment of relative intelligences will probably be
clouded, at least as it relates to the person, since evidence that others are
intellectually superior in a particular area will often be treated as a threat
to the person's identity and ignored or rejected, often subconsciously.

If the person has a strong feeling of self worth that is independent of
intelligence, they won't care very much, and so can be more objective about
whether they're the smartest person in a room, regardless of if they are or
aren't.

Put another way, there will undoubtedly be situations for a very high
percentage of human beings where they happen to be the smartest person in the
room. Being able to recognize this doesn't necessarily indicate arrogance or
an inflated perception of one's intelligence.

Of course this issue is also obscured by the entirely vague and amorphous
nature of the very concept of intelligence. There likely exist countless
'mentally retarded' people who have much higher emotional intelligence than a
typical MIT genius, and are thereby probably better equipped for a happy,
successful, and socially beneficial life.

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timmorgan
I don't mean to be dumb, but I really don't get it. How does that story answer
the question, other than to imply that in a few years, nothing the OP will
have done will matter at all. Sort of sad.

~~~
tptacek
Impressing your boss is a crappy career goal. Even if your boss is amazing.

~~~
duck
I like your version better. I don't know what it is, I use to love reading his
stuff for hours, but then one day I just couldn't stand it. Did this happen to
anyone else?

~~~
dkarl
You liked it when you were surprised and thrilled that someone agreed with you
in a way that was clearer and more exciting than your own thinking. You
stopped liking it when you started wanting something new.

Not to take anything away from the value of his writing. It's good to stay
engaged and delighted with the fundamentals. If you get bored with the simple
things, you'll neglect them and spend all your thinking about novel,
peripheral, trivial things that you aren't bored with yet. Making the
important things you've known for ten years sparkle and rock again is a
valuable contribution.

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AlexeyMK
I feel like Joel really misses blogging. Good writing is just kind of pouring
out of him, spilling here and there.

~~~
staunch
Seriously. He's still got it.

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tptacek
Oh, come on, Joel. Grand Haven isn't that bad. It's only slightly colder than
Manhattan, and just 15 minutes further inland you're in a weird Michigan
microclimate where they can grow decent wine grapes. The beaches are fucking
beautiful --- those are the beaches they shot the end of _Road to Perdition_
on.

And I bet the chairs they give you at that company are awesome.

~~~
bsytko
I believe Joel was talking about Holland, MI and Herman Miller.

In the story he mentions a name Charlie Sherman, which could be some kind of
reference to Herman Miller. Later on he talks about the Gerald R. Ford
freeway, which is I-196 that runs right through Holland.

Furthermore, a Google Maps search of Herman Miller in Holland would indicate
that there are several possibilities for a person to be driving on Lincoln Ave
in which a left would direct them to Herman Miller and going straight would
run them into I-196 [1].

Now, the question in my mind is: How does Joel know so much about West
Michigan and in such great detail that he can accurately portray the
directions he would turn. According to Joel's Wikipedia profile [2], he has
never been close to Michigan his entire life. It appears to me he has never
even set foot in this great state. So he can not be talking about himself.
Jeff Atwood makes no mention of anything relating to Michigan on his profile
[2], so I would not believe to the story a reference to Jeff.

Someone would had to have been particularly close to Joel for him to remember
a story such as this in such great detail. The search continues....

[1]
[http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&...](http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=herman+miller&sll=42.762453,-86.093588&sspn=0.042157,0.06815&ie=UTF8&t=h&rq=1&ev=p&split=1&radius=2.08&hq=herman+miller&hnear=&ll=42.751865,-86.092043&spn=0.042164,0.06815&z=14)
[2] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Spolsky> [3]
<http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2004/02/about-me.html>

-Internet Detective

~~~
tptacek
He's clearly talking about Herman Miller. You're right; Herman Miller is
closer to Holland than Grand Haven. I was going by memory; we drive past it
several times a year on our way to our family's cottage.

------
kylec
You could start by spelling "Spolsky" correctly

------
bluesnowmonkey
Best way: build something that you know will break, then be prepared to swoop
in and fix it. Whenever you fix one bug, add another. Repeat ad infinitum.
Some people will be impressed by your resourcefulness. Others will be angry
that things break at all, but over time these people will get fed up and
leave. Eventually a culture will develop wherein it is accepted that IT
systems are just fundamentally unreliable. You will get stable long-term
employment, a good salary, and regular (though superficial) praise and
deference from everyone around you, including your boss.

This strategy is extremely reliable. I have seen it used successfully at every
company I've ever worked at, large and small, in multiple industries.

Another approach is to develop an internal professional ethic and pursue it
irrespective of office politics. It's not as good for career stability but you
sleep better.

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duck
Funny how the guy that doesn't do anything in the story is named Jeff.

~~~
jpr
What is that a reference to? I suppose this is what I get for not owning a tv.

~~~
cfinke
[http://www.theonion.com/articles/area-man-constantly-
mention...](http://www.theonion.com/articles/area-man-constantly-mentioning-
he-doesnt-own-a-tel,429/)

------
RiderOfGiraffes
This was a good read, yes, but did anyone here _really_ learn anything new
from it? I don't understand why it's go so many upvotes, and I'd really like
to know what I've missed.

"Write code that people use, and ship it."

Was there anything else?

~~~
sudont
"Impressing your boss is a crappy career goal. Even if your boss is amazing.”
-- tptacek

Linking the comment, give _him_ the upvotes:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1994344>

------
softbuilder
All I can think about is Batman vs. Spock. I mean, it's Spock, right? It's
gotta be.

~~~
puredemo
Definitely batman, he has way more gear.

~~~
psadauskas
Spock has a starship; I think that counts as more gear.

~~~
run4yourlives
It isn't Spock's ship, it's Kirk's. Spock just rides along, like Robin.

~~~
redthrowaway
He has a phaser; Batman won't even use a gun. Plus, he's got a tricorder that
can detect somebody's location from miles away. No way in Hell Batman wins.

~~~
aplusbi
How often has Batman fought someone with a gun? Heck, I'm pretty sure he's
fought people with frickin' lasers! In any case you're focusing too much on
gear. For both of them their greatest asset is their mind. Spock is definitely
ahead of Batman in that regard.

Although do keep in mind that Spock is an explorer, Batman is a crime fighter.

Plus Batman has defeated every superhero he's ever fought against including
Superman.

~~~
jerf
Thank you for giving us all examples of jasonkester's point. I applaud your
direct didactic approach. But I fear we are hitting the point of diminishing
returns now. We're done here, right?

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X-Istence
I think I may be missing the point of the story ...

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rlmw
"Ashton even wrote a macro for Jeff that automated that one task. Jeff didn’t
want to get caught, so he refused to install it. They weren’t on speaking
terms after that. It was awkward."

My favourite quote.

~~~
unoti
It's so true, too. Productivity really does alienate slackers. Who was it that
said small teams Do not tolerate freeloaders?

~~~
dkarl
To be fair to Jeff, he understood that Ashton was in the wrong place to be
doing what he was doing. He might as well have been knitting mittens in the
Congo. It took Ashton two years to realize that Jeff was the one who
understood what the company offered and what the company expected in return.

------
snissn
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu_(negative)>

------
rayvega
The writing style of both the posted question and Joel's response gave off
such a "Dear Abby" advice column vibe that it was a pleasant, surprising piece
to read on a usual by-the-numbers Q&A site. If he ever returns to blogging, a
"Dear Joel" format might be an entertaining read.

------
jonsagara
On a related note: <http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2010-12-11/>

------
sizzla
What the story might leave out is that Ashton's family is in a lot of trouble,
Mom alcoholic, Dad MIA a long time ago. Mom's boyfriend is a physically
abusive guy and thinking about that prick gave him strength to do just one
more rep on his 200 lb bench-press routine. He could never quite fit in with
the rich "middle class" kids from the big cities, preferring to drink Pabst
Blue Ribbon with his high-school buddies, get stoned and listen to 80s hard-
rock. On one or two occasions, he read Hacker News but thought ... well, the
readers here might get angry but our farm boy thought all of them were
sheltered dweebs who did not know a damn thing about how real life is like.

On one of those occasions where their crowd was full of freshman girls who
were really looking forward to getting wasted and laid that night, in drunken
stupor Ashton heard Wayne calling out to him. He hasn't seen Wayne since he
joined the Army 2 years ago. Man it was good to see him again, he's the kind
of buddy who'd get in a fight for you without asking a single question. Wayne
knows what's up, Ashton thought to himself as they talked about Wikileaks and
f__king sh__ up. Giggly girls just kept interrupting his conversation and,
irritated, he asked one of them if she would give away a government secret if
all it was doing was covering someone's ass for raping some 9 year old dancing
boys in Afghanistan. Janice just clammed up and some of her ditsiness
immediately disappeared. Not having much to say, feeling put on the spot, a
bit shamed and a bit embarassed, she remembered him well that night, but
that's another story.

Wayne and Ashton went to Bobbie's Diner to sober up with some greasy burgers
and shoot the sh_t. Soon enough they weren't talking about tits, even though
Janice had a really nice pair... Wayne kept telling him how much of cool stuff
the military really does and how he could hook him up. Man, Wayne knows what's
up, he thought to himself. Besides, if it came to working with guys like Wayne
or the dweebs in San Francisco, it was a no brainer....

That's at least how Ashton thought about things back then... but then again,
he was only 20. Nowadays he spends his time working for DISA on new worms.
Everyone needs a botnet nowadays, even the government. It's really cool work,
he learned a lot. But he knows damn well that's something he's never going to
be able to talk about. At least Wayne gets to post bullshit on Twitter as
th3j3st3r, he thinks to himself. His $80k salary is pretty damn good, and even
his Mom is better, she dumped that dickwad. Though she is really getting old,
all that alcohol just turned har brain to mush and she sometimes doesn't make
sense. Maybe it'd be better he went to Silicon Valley, but then, just glancing
over at the picture of him, Janice and their adorable 3 year old made him say
"fuck no!" loud enough that his officemate looked up at him with that "dude,
are you allright?" look.. He would've never met Jen and would probably still
be chasing money like a wannabe pornstar in Los Angeles...

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EGreg
Wow! Spock vs Batman! I never thought about it!

------
trobinson
by spelling his lastname correctly?

