
New York's Incredible Subway - gwintrob
http://www.newgeography.com/content/005255-new-yorks-incredible-subway
======
Animats
The big difference between the NYC subway and all other US systems is that
it's four-track. Not only is it four-track; there are lots of switches,
crossovers, and interlocked signaling to support taking a section of track out
of service without affecting traffic much. That's why the system can run
24/7\. Almost all maintenance is done without stopping all traffic.

Surprisingly, China's new subways are not generally being built as four-track
systems. Nor does Japan have much four-track subway trackage. London
Underground is cramped in every dimension - the system is two-track, the
tunnel diameter is small, and the platforms are short. London cannot fit any
more rolling stock onto their tracks on some lines.

~~~
justincormack
Signalling is one of the main issues in London, as a lot of it is old and
needs replacing for higher density. More tracks are being added, and the wider
metro rail systems are being integrated and extended though.

~~~
Symbiote
Much of the old signaling on the deep lines is gone.

Trains on the Northern, Victoria, Central and Jubilee lines run automatically,
except a driver pressing a button to close the doors.

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Maarten88
I attended a presentation by Travis Kalanick recently, where he told he got
the idea for Uber when he could not get a Cab while visiting Paris.

I thought that was quite funny: Paris has this awesome ridesharing service,
that is even mostly driverless, called the Subway. Everyone there uses it;
only a US tourist would use a taxi there. Still that poor idea led to a great
company.

On a more serious note, this made me think: private companies and startups
doing self driving cars and other transport innovations gain nothing when
public transport gets more popular. They compete with it. I now wonder if that
has something to do with the decrease in rides in US cities outside NY.

~~~
mvid
In theory, they could coexist. There was some talk that Uber was going to
create a "hybrid" transportation solution, where it would handle the beginning
and end of your transit, dropping you off at a train for the majority of the
trip and automatically picking you up at the other end for the last leg.

~~~
huskyr
Only Uber could re-brand the bus system as an 'innovation'.

~~~
nine_k
A bus coming directly to my house, with no intermediate stops on its optimal
route? Yes, please. I'm only sure it's not going to be $2.75 flat rate.

~~~
erikpukinskis
It will happen within 10 years somewhere, and it will probably not be a flat
rate, but most rides will be less than $2.75. The per-mile cost for self
driving electric vehicles is very low.

~~~
mrep
That's an extremely aggressive presumption to make without a
source/explanation.

~~~
uola
Not really. It already happened in some countries where with high development
but still low salaries, like big cities in China. How/if cities will be able
to deal with all the increase in traffic from self-driving cars without
significant congestion charges is of course still unclear.

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pooze
Here is a list of gifs showing the expansion in various cities.

Shanghai
([http://www.thatsmags.com/uploads/galleries/images/shanghai-m...](http://www.thatsmags.com/uploads/galleries/images/shanghai-
metro-gif.gif))

Toronto ([http://www.thatsmags.com/uploads/galleries/images/toronto-
me...](http://www.thatsmags.com/uploads/galleries/images/toronto-metro-
gif.gif))

Beijing
([http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/subwaygif2-01.gif](http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/subwaygif2-01.gif))

Moscow
([https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/%D0%9C%D...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/%D0%9C%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B5_%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%82%D1%80%D0%BE.gif))

New York
([https://secondavesagas.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/subwayhis...](https://secondavesagas.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/subwayhistory.gif))

~~~
sloreti
Boston: [http://www.vanshnookenraggen.com/_index/2012/04/an-
animated-...](http://www.vanshnookenraggen.com/_index/2012/04/an-animated-
history-of-the-mbta/)

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davidf18
You can travel on the subway and busses as much as you want for about $110 per
month.

Remarkably, the subway had even more ridership in the late 1920's and late
1940's, exceeding 2 billion rides per year.

~~~
jessriedel
Manhattan's population was also much larger back then.

~~~
astrodust
When you had fifteen people jammed into a three bedroom it was no wonder it
was higher.

~~~
jessriedel
There's a lot more square footage now, so they could have the density if more
folks lived with roommates. But the number of people who want to live alone is
much higher now.

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bogomipz
There's no mention of the fact that the "Incredible" New York City subway is
buckling under the strain of this increased ridership. The sources are many
but just to provide one:

[http://www.wsj.com/articles/new-yorks-subway-system-cant-
kee...](http://www.wsj.com/articles/new-yorks-subway-system-cant-keep-pace-
with-growing-number-of-riders-1458762858)

Despite a growing ridership, it's still fiscally strapped and under
capitalized, so it's buckling financially as well. While the latter
contributes to the former it is by no means the sole cause.

~~~
Spooky23
Undercapitalized? MTA has access to lots and lots of capital. They collect
fares on the largest transportation network in the United States, have nearly
unlimited bonding ability, and collection of sales taxes from one of the
larger metro areas on the planet.

Underinvestment in capital projects has more to do with the ridiculous
politics around the MTA. They have expensive labor contracts, duplicative
administration and lots of inefficiency.

~~~
bogomipz
Yes agreed, and there's even a tax on your cell phone bill as a resident that
goes to the MTA. They are undercapitalized for all the projects they have
already begun work on.

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placeybordeaux
> each of which is 20 percent or more denser than any municipality large
> municipality in the United States or Canada

And a chart that seems to be indicating that ridership has increased by 1,000
* 100 million riders from 2005 to 2015.

Who edited this?

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FreedomToCreate
I haven't had an opportunity to ride the NYC subway, but I was a regular user
of the Shenzhen/Hong Kong subway for a few months during a long term project
in the region and I would have to say its incredible/insane. If you ever get a
chance, experiencing the Hong Kong system at rush hour is crazy but you will
be amazed by it efficiency. Don't know if I can say the same about SF or
Toronto.

~~~
stuxnet79
Toronto's transit definitely needs improvement. But how does SF even figure
into the equation? I thought all the west-coast cities were car-centric.

~~~
fennecfoxen
San Francisco isn't, not really anyway. Actually, to be honest, it's kinda
just crappy to get around no matter how you want to do it... but as far as
cars are concerned, since the earthquake felled the Embarcadero Freeway the
freeways are only on one side of the city, and even the fastest routes through
town have a bunch of stoplights, and traffic is bad and slow.

But it does have transit! Mostly, it has Caltrain and BART, which are
essentially commuter rail systems that drop people downtown where they
actually want to work. They have some issues but they fundamentally _work_.
San Francisco also has MUNI, the Municipal Railway, which runs the streetcars
(and also runs the buses) and, for the US, it's pretty good transit. But
that's mostly just low expectations: there's one downtown tunnel (which shares
half its route with BART) and then the rest is mostly interlined with the
aforementioned traffic, and it is slow, and notoriously unreliable (even
besies traffic, SFMTA has well-known issues with its relationship to its labor
union which contribute substantially to no-show drivers, and in the absence of
driverless buses that's a bit of a monkey wrench in normal operation.) And
very few of the buses have dedicated bus lanes (although the Geary corridor
_might_ be getting some in the future as part of a bus rapid transit system
some day soon).

There is an ongoing project to connect Caltrain to Market Street and Chinatown
and Fisherman's Wharf with a new streetcar line. We'll see how well it works
out... there's already been drama and delays about moving the alignment from
3rd St to 4th St...

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buro9
This made me curious about London's passenger or trip numbers, and I found
this: [https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/what-we-do/london-
und...](https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/what-we-do/london-
underground/facts-and-figures)

1.34 billion passengers (I presume 'trips') per year.

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billforsternz
The author forgets Tokyo and Seoul in his intro. Tokyo because like NY, Paris
and London it's both old and huge. Seoul because like Shanghai and Beijing it
has emerged more recently as a genuine contender for the title of biggest and
best system.

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biftek
Also interesting that the PATH, which serves parts of Manhattan (and I feel
not a lot of people know about), ranks 7th on the list.

~~~
astrodust
It's more a New Jersey thing than a New York thing even though technically it
goes to Manhattan.

That's some pretty impressive volume considering it's not all that expansive:
[http://www.panynj.gov/path/maps.html](http://www.panynj.gov/path/maps.html)

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brooklyndavs
Strangely, and hypocritically, the same author of this post also wrote this:

"War on the Dream: How Anti-Sprawl Policy Threatens the Quality of Life"

WUT?

