

Facebook chooses DIY servers over Dell, HP options - ahalan
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/facebook/facebook-chooses-diy-servers-over-dell-hp-options/3543

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Udo
The last time I ordered servers for my employer, I was incredibly annoyed by
Dell's website because it doesn't show prices on key pieces of hardware to
business customers. The result is that you can't really plan anything until
you start taking calls from extremely annoying Dell salespeople who eventually
send you an offer with prices in it - an offer that may of may not contain the
products you actually wanted. The worst part is that you just know you're
getting totally ripped off (otherwise they'd have prices on their site) and
that after this stuff finally arrives at your door the same obnoxious customer
service reps keep calling you to sell you more stuff. So that was the first
and last time I bought something from Dell. What an ordeal.

~~~
jonknee
> The worst part is that you just know you're getting totally ripped off
> (otherwise they'd have prices on their site)

Then offer to pay less. Sales people are annoying, but they can work to your
advantage if you play ball.

~~~
Udo
No. I just want to order stuff at a transparent and reasonable price. How hard
is that? I want a simple online shop with a few products to choose from. Click
and order, done. I don't want to negotiate. I don't want to be on the lookout,
constantly defending myself and my company from service reps who are trying to
shaft us. I just want to buy stuff, not jump through hoops and be harassed.

There is no justification in having those sales people around. They have
absolutely zero technical information that I need, they're just sitting on the
price. I know that my interaction with them and their skill in ripping me off
is paying their salary - but I want them gone. Send them home, they are
completely unnecessary legacy cruft. They are costing companies like Dell real
money in lost sales. A few days ago I was talking to a sysadmin friend of
mine, he feels the same way. I know I'm not alone in this.

While we're talking about Dell and parasitic cruft, they should reconsider
their mandatory commercial operating systems policy as well. It's nearly
impossible to buy many of their servers without an OS already on them.

~~~
scottm01
This is certainly the right move for google, facebook, etc, and maybe even for
startups who for some reason want to avoid the cloud and run their own couple
of one-off servers. For the rest of us in the great middle, direct from
manufacturers like HP and Dell is the best option.

I have not had the same experience as you with Dell; we have an established
"medium business" account and get pricing online that generally reflects our
base discount. We can sometimes get more off by dealing with those salespeople
(especially if it's near a quarter end), but in general we get a fair and
predictable price, visible on the web site. Servers show up (sometimes later
then I'd like) configured as ordered, and just need put into a rack and
powered on.

Our "server specialist" certainly isn't the most technical guy in the world,
but he knows the hardware line in and out, knows what works, and what other
people are using for similar projects.

I regularly buy servers with no OS (if I'm reusing an old MS license), or with
Redhat (my standard OS) at a price competitive with others.

~~~
Udo
If I understand you correctly, you're implying that an industrial-grade server
company like Dell necessarily _has_ to work like this. But I assert that they
don't. I believe there is a niche in the market just waiting for a modern,
transparent, fast new startup that gives you these products at a transparent
price, with minimal fuss, no tricks required. Configure a blade rack online,
order it, next week it's in your office. It works like that for consumer
stuff, let's bring that kind of convenience to businesses.

~~~
scottm01
No, I'm suggesting that in my experience Dell operates more like what you're
proposing then what you're originally describing. I get (generally)
transparent pricing, flexibility, and the servers show up at my datacenter
next week as ordered.

I'm done defending Dell though; and don't think I'm arguing there is no room
for improvement. At the very least, one's experience with Dell seems to vary
wildly depending on account reps and established agreements and processes.
There is no reason our experiences should be so different.

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dfxm12
_“People want to be able to build it their way. They kind of want a Burger
King: ‘I don’t like pickles — why do I have to have pickles?’”_

The big gain in outsourcing something like this/buying an "off the shelf"
solution is that you don't get _exactly_ what you want, but you get it cheaper
because the people you buy it from are doing it at volume.

When you _need_ a solution as specialized as Facebook, it doesn't surprise me
that the big players are unwilling to break their service offerings/support
model (at a competitive price), because they are more concerned with keeping
their own costs down. They don't want to have to hire people to support a
special infrastructure for just one customer...

Thus, Facebook gets what they _need_ and at a better price by doing it
themselves.

~~~
danssig
>but you get it cheaper because the people you buy it from are doing it at
volume.

Since I've been buying computers I've never seen this to be the case. I have
yet to see a single time that buying a prepackaged computer of any brand was
cheaper than buying the parts on e.g. pricewatch and building it myself.

Dislcaimer: I've always built machines with an eye towards gaming so maybe at
the very low end this isn't the case. I'd be surprised even then.

~~~
dfxm12
Parts and labor are built into that price. You are also paying them to build
it and for support. Again, you might not need that support and you might not
need to have them build it for you, or you might need something that isn't
offered in a prepackaged configuration... just like Facebook in this case.

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m1
Google have been doing this for a long time.
<http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10209580-92.html>

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jrockway
"Don't worry, investors. Most companies put much dumber people in charge of
buying servers, and those companies are still buying our overpriced
equipment."

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ubercore
I wish they went into more details about the customization. Their description
sounds like something that could be generally applicable. Who doesn't want
leaner server with maximum airflow with a minimal amount of fans? Google's
customizations make more sense, as they're integrating it with their racks
(not doing DC conversion in the power supply).

~~~
troyk
Not in the article, but they open sourced the specs <http://opencompute.org/>

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Toddward
I kind of figured this was implied when Facebook revealed the Open Compute
Project a few months back...

<http://techcrunch.com/2011/04/07/open-compute-project/>

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knotty66
At most (smaller!) companies I have worked, middle management seem to have
chosen to buy servers from the suppliers that provide the biggest kickbacks -
with Dell, PDAs or Laptops usually made a nice little sweetener to maintain
loyalty.

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pmarin
Can anyone tell me the original source of this article? Is there a Facebook
blog post or something?

