
Why it's hard to quit Amazon Prime, even if maybe you should - yarapavan
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2018/01/31/why-you-cannot-quit-amazon-prime-even-if-maybe-you-should/?utm_term=.a37303729529
======
GCA10
The key passage to me is in paragraph 12: "being strategic with your shopping
cart could get you most of the advantages of shopping on Amazon without paying
for Prime."

This is true, and the Post's Geoff Fowler documents it well. But in this time-
starved world, there's only so much energy that most of us can devote to being
"strategic" about life's minor routines. In the past six months, I've become
"strategic" about getting refunds from United when the in-flight wi-fi doesn't
work. I've become "strategic" about squabbling with Public Storage when they
raise monthly rental rates far faster than they promised me the last time we
spoke. I've become "strategic" about storing passwords, being careful about
coffee-shop wifi, etc., etc.

Shoot me, but there's only so much of life's minor routines that can be
handled "strategically" before I've got no ability to enjoy family, pick
fun/gutsy new professional goals, travel with gusto, etc. If Amazon Prime lets
me make semi-okay shopping choices without having to top up $17.98 shopping
carts to $20, hey, that's a welcome way of clearing out the clutter. It
creates more time to be "strategic" about things that really are strategic.

~~~
SeoxyS
Pro-tip: write in to United any flight you have where something goes wrong.
They'll usually reply with a travel certificate. They almost always have
something wrong (broken wifi, in flight entertainment, delays, missed
connections, etc.). Each time, it's an opportunity to score.

I write this from the airport lounge after getting off a $260 flight, which I
paid mostly with a $200 certificate with the last flight's issue, and landed
to a new $175 certificate for broken wifi. I'm up to over $5000 in such
compensation in the past couple years.

One thing worth being strategic about.

~~~
randycupertino
Wow, do you also complain about not liking your meals at restaurants to try
and get free desserts?

~~~
zbentley
Sure, I'll complain that way at a restaurant, _if_ :

\- The restaurant is a near-monopoly at which I have to either eat at or go
hungry.

\- The reason I "don't like my meal", as you say, is because it was served to
me multiple _days_ late, during which time I was unable to leave and re-enter
the restaurant without having to pay again (and this restaurant charges a
premium).

\- When I pay for food at the restaurant, I often receive an empty plate
instead. The restaurant refers to this as my "not liking my meal", and chalks
it up to personal preference unless I raise a stink.

\- The restaurant is somewhere I am forced to eat by my employer, and my
employer will not refund me when they fail to provide food.

\- The restaurant has a reputation for being mismanaged and implementing
policies that torment patrons--sometimes by physically beating them.

\- The restaurant has slowly but surely increased prices while visibly
decreasing portion sizes.

And so on. For a lot of people "just don't fly" doesn't work (people with
overseas family or travel for work). And for those same people, mega-airlines
like United are often the only feasible choice or one of a very few
equivalently-shitty choices.

Also, complaining by email decreases (doesn't eliminate, but decreases) the
annoyance caused by antagonizing an in-person employee of the airline with
your grievances. The person whose day you might ruin by interrupting them is
not the problem--their employer is--but it's very hard for many people to
refrain from acting as if that person is responsible when they confront
someone. The person whose job it is to read the complaint emails probably
isn't having a great time either, but at least they can (hopefully) take a
smoke break if they need to.

------
nostromo
I didn't find this article very interesting, but I found the existence of this
article interesting.

It seems like a smart career move to criticize Amazon as a tech reporter at
WaPo. Since Bezos now owns the newspaper, if you're laid off or fired, you
could point to your critical articles of Amazon as proof of journalistic
wrongdoing. He's unfireable!

~~~
chrischen
That's a great strategy if being not fired is your bar for success.

~~~
supernumerary
Journalism in 2018 is tough.

------
headmelted
Not explicitly Prime-related, but the author ponders why someone would shop at
Amazon rather than Walmart (as an example).

We don't have Walmart in my part of the world, but what I _can_ say is that
Amazon is the preference not just for the fast delivery, but for the
_security_. If I get delivered a crap product that's not as described, I know
Amazon won't argue with me. I _dread_ taking anything back to any other
retailer I've dealt with. There's only so many times you can be told some
variant of _" oh we can't help you because you broke the seal that you needed
to break to open the box"_. I'll vote with my wallet, and if it means
hegemony, then Amazon's competitors should have started giving a rats behind
years ago.

~~~
bagacrap
I don't know where you are but that sounds like a cultural difference. Most
American retailers have very good return policies. I was at Lowe's (big box
hardware store) recently and witnessed someone return an open bag of beef
jerky because they didn't like the flavor. The only places with bad return
policies are small mom and pops.

~~~
stordoff
Most places in the UK do as well (it's mandatory online), but Amazon tend to
deal with returns outside that initial period much better. I recently had a
pair of headphones break after 17 months use - still in warranty but I wanted
to avoid the manufacturer if possible due to the 2 week turnaround time and
the fact that Amazon listed them as "Used - Like New" (Warehouse Deals). In
similar situations, other retailers have either been extremely awkward about
the exchange or insisted that the manufacturer do the repair. With this one,
one email to Amazon and less than twelve hours later I had a returns label and
a refund on the way.

It's still worth shopping around - occasionally Amazon can be far more
expensive than the alternatives - but if the price is close, _knowing_ that
Amazon will sort an issue even if it doesn't show up for a year plus without
even questioning is useful to know.

~~~
headmelted
I'm in the UK.

My experiences have been vastly different than your own - the CRA helps,
certainly - but I've found retailers don't really abide the law as much as
like to be forced kicking and screaming into adhering to it.

Even retailers who boast having their reputation for support at the core of
their business. I've had _hellish_ experiences getting John Lewis to deal with
failed electronics, even a DOA laptop. You have the right to take a retailer
to court of course, but most know you won't bother with the hassle and give
up. Again, only my experience. One I've never had with Amazon.

------
z_open
Over the last year I have severely cut my contact with these mega-
corporations. Don't order from Amazon, google services is limited to the rare
use of ``!g'' from duckduckgo, and I tend to get groceries from smaller
grocery stores (relative to Walmart). What I've learned is how easy it is to
do. People just want what's familiar, to do what they did yesterday, and don't
realize how much of a non-issue the alternatives are. I'd recommend giving it
a try. Now if I could just get rid of Comcast.

~~~
tinbad
My usage of Amazon increased exponentially since we had twins. As a parent,
the 1/2-day free delivery of anything from diapers to wipes to random items
like kids cups or books, I can’t even imagine having to go to the store for
these things anymore. Especially with one shout to Alexa. It really makes a
huge difference in quality of life, when running out even for the smallest
errand can be a multiple hour process.

~~~
jaredhansen
It's all in what you value. If, as a parent, it's more important to you to
save time than have a good way to send signal your virtue to internet friends
(you monster!), then you're on the right track.

------
BeetleB
They didn't address the pricing issue well. For well known products, Amazon
Prime may have cheap prices. For random items, they often are more expensive
(more often than not, in my experience). More expensive compared to other
sites/local stores, and more expensive than the non-Prime option from Amazon.

People who sell FBA on Amazon make good money because people who have Prime
usually only buy Prime-eligible products. You can get a book + shipping for,
say, $10 if you are willing to forego 2 day shipping. But the lowest prime-
eligible price may be $20. These are not hypothetical prices. I've sold stuff
using Amazon FBA where many of the cheapest sellers are selling under $10, and
I list it at, say, $25 for Prime users, and I still sell it. A lot of Prime
users simply filter for Prime options and never consider the cheaper options
_on the same page_.

------
spodek
Amazon is the source of so much garbage in my building I associate them with
land fills and disgust.

They gave me a free subscription for 6 months. A couple orders was enough to
decide never again. So much garbage and packaging. Unconscionable to me.

~~~
mrep
Most of their packaging is recyclable and 1 delivery driver can make an
efficient route delivering goods to hundreds of people.

The alternative is having everyone drive to retail stores which is super
carbon intensive and then you still end up with the same packaging minus the
cardboard box (which is recycled anyways).

Sounds like you are the one being unconscionable to me

~~~
luddaite
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Amazon use more packaging materials than
brick and mortar stores? They have to box up the items which would otherwise
be in their own boxes. Also the brick and mortars would probably do a better
job of recycling/disposing of packaging.

~~~
Broken_Hippo
" Also the brick and mortars would probably do a better job of
recycling/disposing of packaging."

That doesn't hold true everywhere. Recycling for me is easy. The city gives me
a trash can for paper products, and another for plastic. But in the states, it
was always spotty. I lived in a little town with no curbside recycling, and I
didn't have a car. There was never a _real_ push for recycling most places I
lived in the states, and most states offer zero cash back for empty bottles
and cans (it greatly increases the number of them recycled). Here (Norway) I
can simply put them into a machine in the grocery stores, though some aren't
accepted.

On top of that, commercial trash is quite a bit different. City dwellers
usually pay for trash removal through taxes. The businesses, though, pay for
it themselves. Most are motivated to recycle their cardboard because the
company pays _them_ to pick up trash. (plastic and other similar things just
go in the trash).

Now, lets consider Amazon. They have a bit more in common with a factory than
a brick and morter. Some of their stuff isn't in their control to recycle,
though they could offer returnable packages. The rest, though, is doable.
After all, some factories send absolutely nothing to a landfill (Subaru in
Lafayette, Indiana is one of those). I'm pretty sure something similar can
happen at Amazon if they had the right incentive. They'd already have the
trash incentive brick and mortar stores have.

------
PascLeRasc
I've started trying to cut down on Prime and it's been nice actually. I've
been getting electronics from Ebay and vitamins/nootropics from speciality
stores, and coffee from local roasters, and I've found some better deals and
overall higher quality. I'm glad that WaPo also was able to write a critical
article about its sponsor.

~~~
kelnos
I think it's really just about what you value more. I don't mind spending a
few bucks more here and there to remove hassle. Buying from ebay would
certainly count as a hassle for me.

I also absolutely love Amazon's customer service: in my experience they're
100% no-questions-asked no matter what, as long as you return within 30 days.
And if it's a small enough item that's not worth the return shipping cost, I
don't even have to go through the hassle of shipping it back. With nearly any
other retailer I would dread having to attempt a return.

------
spraak
I use Amazon's "Prime Now" service to get groceries from Sprouts (a health
food store similar to Whole Foods). I don't have a car so it makes it really
worth my Prime membership. I also find it much more professional and reliable
than Instacart. Tips are added by default to checkout (but you can still not
tip).

------
Shivetya
Personally I shop three sites for most goods, Amazon, Wal-Mart, and E-bay. I
am an Amazon prime member. I use Wal-Mart for items I cannot get via Amazon
but I also check them to see if they have what I want at my local store.

My issue with Wal-Mart is their site can be a real mess at times and filtering
to my local store only oddly doesn't work all the time. They also have a
shipping issue where they have split an order and both arrived the same day so
how they don't lose money I don't know; one arrived Fed Ex in the morning and
then another as Fed Ex Home at night - they were multiples of the same item
from the same location!

Now I have watched some Amazon Prime video and I use it to get stuff my
parents want faster and have it delivered to my house. Yet one are the Post
missed is their partnership with Twitch, now I can support a single streamer
for free each month where that used to cost me 4.99 a month.

Also, Prime is a godsend for those who cannot get out of house either from
infirmities, medical (think IBS), or simply not comfortable in crowds.

~~~
tzs
> My issue with Wal-Mart is their site can be a real mess at times and
> filtering to my local store only oddly doesn't work all the time.

Have you tried their mobile app? It seems to be a lot better at showing local
inventory than the web site (at least the iOS version...I've not tried the
Android version).

------
myrandomcomment
Just tried to order 3x15ft rope lights from a sight for that sort of stuff.
Around $60 for each spool. They wanted $161 shipping. Same thing on Amazon,
$70 each with free shipping. My wife and I order something once a week at
least (household stuff). Prime works out well. Plus we get to watch the Grand
Tour!

------
randyrand
I turned off my prime auto re-enroll (which is on by default).

I order about 30 things a year from amazon. $3 an order for faster shipping is
not worth it for me.

I think more people need to reevaluate themselves.

~~~
ovao
Do you not use Prime Video at all? As someone who doesn't subscribe to
Netflix, Hulu or any of the premium cable networks, I'm finding I get a pretty
decent fill of entertainment with Prime Video alone.

~~~
stordoff
Incidentally it was Prime Video that caused me to cancel Prime briefly a few
months ago (though re-subscribed when it became evident that shipping costs
would cost me as much and didn't feel like cutting my nose off to spite my
face) - they added (or I noticed) pre-roll ads for other Amazon shows which I
really dislike in a paid product.

~~~
james-skemp
I assume you've never tried Hulu. Depending upon the show, you can expect to
watch ads before and during shows.

Still better than network television though.

------
woolvalley
I've found after the first initial years of establishing myself, I rarely buy
much of anything from amazon other than the rare uncommon $5-$15 object that
would be hard to find in a store.

What I do buy is significantly cheaper to just buy at target anyway during
grocery runs.

I also never use the other services even though they are available. Amazon
music isn't as good as spotify, the tv offering isn't that interesting, etc.

------
__jal
I dropped Prime when Azon started their clever strategy of leaving my
purchases on the street. (I live alone in an urban, somewhat sketchy area with
a mail slot in my door.) It is just way too much of a hassle to buy something,
only to have to argue with Amazon after they gifted it to some random person.

So I buy a lot less from Bezosmart these days. Can't say it is much of a loss
for me.

~~~
apotheothesomai
It's the carriers (USPS, FedEx, UPS etc.) who leave your purchases on the
street, not Amazon. Amazon can't micromanage their shipping partners to alter
the way they do deliveries.

You don't have argue with Amazon. You press the "where's my stuff" button and
send a message. They'll ship a replacement right away.

If you live in a sketchy area, don't order things. Similarly, I live in a
cottage behind a big house. I can't hear or see delivery trucks, so I avoid
any orders that require a signature.

~~~
stordoff
Amazon's own couriers are the worst of the bunch for me (in the UK). They
leave stuff pretty much anywhere, even if you're in, up to and including
inside a general waste bin (which is great fun when you have pets to clean out
and don't immediately notice the Amazon card...) and show up at pretty much
any time (after 10pm on more than one occasion).

~~~
jeffwass
I mentioned this a couple months ago, but here in London an Amazon courier
left our item in the bin (ie, garbage can) in front of our house!

Not even a friendly note thru the mail slot to say “we put your package in the
bin”.

Luckily my wife happened to find it.

------
cf498
>Less than 1 percent of Amazon Prime members even consider other sites in the
same shopping session, according to market research consultancy Millward Brown
Digital.

Yes, because I dont care for the shipping cost but the guaranteed overnight
shipping for pretty much everything I need.

The argument, that you get cheaper delivery is moot if that isnt the reason
why you use amazon prime.

------
wilwade
As a former prime member, there are times I miss it, but not much.

What I miss most is Amazon caring about me as a customer. I don't think I am
the only one who finds that as a non-prime customer my packages take a really
long time to ship.

I often have to contact Amazon to get them to actually ship my infrequent
orders.

Once you are out, you are really out.

~~~
soneil
> I don't think I am the only one who finds that as a non-prime customer my
> packages take a really long time to ship.

This is precisely why I refuse to even try Prime. It feels like a protection
racket. It's not unusual for them to take a week or two to even dispatch an
item. If I don't like it, I'm welcome to pay their protection money.

It's saving me plenty though. Most the stuff I get from Amazon, I can get from
China at a fraction of the price. Now that amazon isn't neccessarily faster
than China (yes, let that sink in!), I may as well order it from China.

(and note I'm talking about time to dispatch here. I'm not complaining I get
default shipping rather than 2-day shipping. I'm complaining it takes them a
week or two to pull the item off a shelf)

~~~
skellera
To be honest, it’s not any different as a prime member. It just takes a
shorter time once it’s sent.

I don’t know why I stick around.

------
AdamJacobMuller
Prime is worth it to me even for just prime video.

8.25/MRC is way less than my Netflix subscription.

~~~
joshamania
I had prime for a couple of years specifically for the video. I probably
didn't get hooked on the shipping for a good two years after I first signed
up. I don't have cable and I find Netflix gets stale if it's all one uses.
There have been precious few competitors to Netflix and I'll be damned if I'm
going to pay Hulu _and_ watch their commercials. Network TV pretty much sucks
anyway (imo) so I don't really see any use for Hulu.

------
yorby
If you want to pay 10% more on everything, Prime might be for you.

------
Fjolsvith
This is crazy. My nearest store is 15 minutes away, and the nearest Walmart is
an hour away. Prime would be a bargain at $500 a year for me.

~~~
forgot-my-pw
Sorry, but Prime will not be quick too in remote areas like yours.

~~~
eropple
Prime's two-day delivery to the Vermont/Canada border is just fine.

~~~
Spooky23
You’re really close to Burlington, you’re not remote from the shipping
perspective. Many places in NY in the middle of nowhere add 1-2 days delivery
because UPS routes are super long or they need to use USPS and a rural carrier
humping packages in the back of his Subaru.

~~~
eropple
I dunno--I get two-day shipping when I visit my grandparents in Houlton, ME,
too. ;) And I don't think they're shipping in from Canada for that.

The coverage is pretty good and very wide.

------
yakitori
What's the point of this article? Is it news? Is it interesting? Is it HN
material?

It's not hard to quit amazon prime. I only sign up for amazon prime once a
year during christmas and then cancel the membership at the end of the month.
Takes me a few seconds.

Wish HN was more technology centric like it used to be rather than peddling
silly washingtonpost and nytimes articles.

------
fbonetti
The ability to have nearly anything I want shipped to me with 2 days for a
flat annual rate is absolutely devastating. I don’t know how I don’t know how
I manage to function when a BIG, EVIL corporation is manipulating me into
buying stuff I want. /s

~~~
dang
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do.

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