
Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint - emillon
http://insanebraintrain.blogspot.fr/2011/07/massive-dosing-lsd-thumbprint.html
======
jpdoctor
I note that "It's like tripping your balls off on LSD" is missing from the
list. But, funny thing: It's the most accurate. Instead you get a bunch of
gobbledygook about death, eternity, and direct messages from god. The fact
that you might just be having an episode of impaired cognition does not
actually enter your brain.

Let's not make this more complicated than it is.

~~~
drzaiusapelord
Anything with the phrase (paraphrasing) "but I must warn you, you must be
surrounded by evolved people" sounds so incredibly condescending and
pretentious it really shows how these people see themselves as superior to
others, like your friend who travels a lot and brings it up all the time.
Except his stories are rational and meaningful, while stories about tripping
balls are so subjective, they're meaningless.

Yes, I'm sure it was a positive experience, but the idea that you can learn
wisdom and maturity via chemistry, well, that idea never panned out. Instead
you get the typical empty-head drug talk about "seeing god" and "being
nothing." And for all the elaborate salesmanship, what do these people get in
the end? They're extremely ineloquent and whatever wisdom is purported to be
there, just doesn't seem to be there. They've obviously invested into some
kind of "rebel" personality and drug culture panders to them. I should know, I
was invested in drug culture myself for longer than I care to admit on the
internet.

Meh, the counter-culture petered out for a reason. Turns out ingesting random
chemicals isn't the big statement so many thought it was. There's no shortcut
to being an interesting and clever person. You gotta put the hours in.

~~~
orasis
The insights available through meditation and psychedelics are insights into
the workings of conceptualization and the odd subject/object split we
habitually do with thought and language. Being able to experience reality
below the lens of conceptualization is the most powerful experience of my
life.

I can now clearly see the fake reality created instantly by thought and the
truth that there is only this moment of experience and it is totally
inherently free from meaning. In this is realization is liberation from
limiting thoughts and ideals and an existence that is free from anxiety,
boredom, or any sense that something is wrong or needs doing.

Describing what its like is like describing an orgasm to a person who has
never had one. "Uh...its like a really good sneeze."

I did this through the path of meditation, but I know others who have used
psychedelics to similar ends.

~~~
michaelochurch
_I did this through the path of meditation, but I know others who have used
psychedelics to similar ends._

Based on what I've read and observed, the people who get real benefit out of
psychedelics are those who are already fairly meditative people, who use them
in reasonable settings (with people they trust) and know what they are doing.

There clearly are people who are able to make good use of these chemicals, but
they seem to be fewer and farther in between than people who succeed on other,
less risky, paths. What seems to be the mainstream in psychedelic drug culture
(although it's hard to tell what the mainstream of an underground, illegal
subculture _is_ ) is just lazy.

The idea that one can pop a pill and have a spiritual experience (instead of
context-free noise) is ridiculous. LSD seems to be a magnifying glass, so
people who use it as part of their spiritual practice seem to get real
benefit, but those who use it as a "party drug" are just magnifying crap and
polluting their minds.

~~~
zensavona
Who's talking about using LSD as a party drug? It's certainly not even
slightly suggested in the posted article or this response.

~~~
cnp
I've actually known quite a lot of people who have used LSD to that end. The
Mushroom, however, is a different, more spiritual journey that is very
difficult to evade.

~~~
giamgiam
I've known quite a few people who take mushrooms as party drugs, as well.
Anything is a party drug to the right group of people.

~~~
cnp
'tis true :/

------
wfn
Somehow I cringe when entertaining the thought that there might be some open-
minded HNers for whom it just so transpired that one of the first pieces of
text on LSD chanced upon happened to be this. If it mere me, I'd probably
remain unchanged after reading something which was written by someone who
simply happens not to share many of the conceptual tools / words / concepts I
presently have.

I would instead recommend reading Albert Hofmann's original accounts of how he
came to discover and to sample LSD for the first time; his was a very measured
(though his very first experience was unexpected and therefore somewhat
peculiar), delicate and elegant approach to discovering the molecule's
effects; a scientist with an open mind - _that_ read stirred quite a few
things in me! A good read / book by any measure.

<http://www.maps.org/books/mpc/chapter1.html>

edit - wanted to add that the book in question also includes early accounts of
other researchers, psychiatrists, etc. - for a quick read, see e.g. this
account in particular: <http://www.maps.org/books/mpc/chapter4.html>

------
sk5t
I don't understand the negativity in this thread... haven't taken LSD myself,
but Steve Jobs was a fairly smart individual, and described taking LSD as a
profoundly important action in his life. Perhaps there's something to it
beyond the ramblings of "burn-outs" and "hippies."

~~~
cloverich
Its just that burn outs and hippies are the ones to both do it the most and
talk about it the most.

But many people can think of _something_ in there life that resulted in a
complete change in the way they think - about some thing. Death of a loved
one, some traumatic experience. Growing up, having kids, falling in love.
Whatever. We naturally hate to think something as emotional or _meaningful_ as
those events could be compared to a simple drug, but at the end of the day,
anything and everything you think and feel _is_ the result of a chemical
reaction. Is it so far flung to think that some _other_ chemical reaction may
lead to insightful experiences?

------
smosher
I have met only one person who has taken such an amount. He has permanent
tunnel vision as a result, so I find myself suspicious. Certainly not a
practice I would recommend.

------
javajosh
Well, shit. A thumbprint is pretty intense, but you haven't really done LSD
unless you've done a _handprint_. With both hands. You pass through death and
eternity to _become LISP_.

~~~
dhimes
Naw, man, you gotta do _lines._ Only then can you become a qubit.

------
cnp
While I'm certain this doesn't qualitatively compare to a thumbprint of LSD, I
have had the most INTENSE experiences with pure DMT. So much so I'm very
hesitant to ever consider doing anything within that class again.

Just like Strassman described in his research studies
([http://www.rickstrassman.com/index.php?option=com_content...](http://www.rickstrassman.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54&Itemid=54)),
the "entity" / "alien" contact that people report is utterly inexplicable and
real to those experiencing it, myself included, and consistent. Spaceships,
abduction tables, 3000000-million-years-in-the-future technology, telepathic
communication, and so on. Its beyond words, and it's terrifyingly real.

Honestly, I hesitate to even call DMT a psychedelic; its more like a time
machine or teleportation device. Having done the whole gamut of psychedelics,
I can, with complete certainly, say that this is something else entirely, and
it needs to be further explored.

------
iwasphone
I'm glad to see so few commenters dismissing the subject because of their own
lack of perspective, and so many commenters articulating their experiences so
well.

The Internet--which incidentally owes its current incarnation to so many acid-
dropping individuals--has provided many forums (fora?) for truthful discourse
about these substances. Those who have had experience with LSD together have a
voice that is going to drown out the insane, fearful rambling propaganda of
the prohibitionists. It's safe to say we've reached a tipping point, and it's
only a matter of time before we recover our freedom to explore our minds.
Respect.

------
lucisferre
I wonder if intelligent machines will infect themselves with severely
disruptive but temporary algorithms (viruses) and believe they too understand
the meaning of life the universe and everything.

~~~
cookingrobot
A better analogy might be giving the machine a quick peek at it's debugger.

~~~
compee
So would life be nothing more than universally good local viruses within the
universe?

------
linuxhansl
Loss of ego. Personal death. Seeing ALL, the "connectiveness" of everything.

This sounds like an extreme version of some of the experiences I had while
meditating (usually after the 30-50 minute mark). These experiences for me
typically vanish as soon as I come out of meditation. But something sticks, as
if the mind is reminded of the experience at random times. Those times feel
like "seeing the matrix". You're suddenly here seeing the intricacy of
everything.

There have been Buddhist monks who after trying LSD suggested that it could be
some kind of "accelerator" on the spiritual path.

~~~
gnosis
You might be interested in reading the following article, titled _"Are
Psychedelics Useful in the Practice of Buddhism?"_

<http://psychonautdocs.com/docs/stolaroff_buddhism.pdf>

------
fumar
LSD is an intense drug that alters ones brain chemistry. We are those neurons
and synapses. When they change, we change.

LSD will alter one's perspectives. Maybe the correct statement is, add more
perspectives.

~~~
cthrowaway2
we are neurons and synapses? is it not perhaps the case that neurons and
synapses are simply arbitrary inputs into our true selves? which, like any
input, could be configured, removed, or entirely replaced.

~~~
nilved
Yep, we are. No, that's not the case.

~~~
omarchowdhury
Well that just settles it. Thank you.

------
DaniFong
This doesn't seem like a good idea.

------
tytyty
I take psychedelics on a regular basis. Usually a couple of times a month.
Although I've done several hundred micrograms (there is really no way of
knowing) of LSD at once, I also really enjoy experimenting with smaller doses
and casually micro-dosing on work days.

I happen to be a software engineer and try to apply my knowledge of "machines"
to the psychedelic experience. While I don't believe in anything supernatural,
I do think that there might be a chance that psychedelics, especially LSD,
help your consciousness tap into some deeper abstractions of the human mind,
maybe even the universe.

Let me explain that insane claim as best I can:

There is a great book on psychology that was published recently called:
Thinking Fast and Slow. In summary, it goes into great detail about two
systems of the human mind. System 1, the immediate reaction system, and system
2 which is responsible for computing and solving problems.

When your brain is in system 2 mode (solve 17 x 54 in your head) your heart
rate increases, your pupils dilate, and your brain starts consuming glucose.
It's doing work. System 1 is the trained mind that recognizes facial gestures
and stuff infinitely more complex than a simple math equation. It reacts to
danger before you are consciously aware of danger.

I would speculate that LSD turns on System 2 where normally my System 1 brain
would give me an immediate response. Your mind starts processing information
differently. This cascades into an incredible effect on your emotional
awareness, creativity, introspection, insights, and behaviors both physical
and cognitive.

I wonder if these extreme doses of LSD eliminate your minds ability to process
normal sensory input. What you're left with are low level systems. You're
self-awareness is turned off, but you are left with cognitive factories still
churning away.

Imagine something sad that happened to you once. Now imagine the visual
component is gone, the memory of language gone. You're left with the actual
chemical response of the memory. Now do the inverse for something positive.
That's what ego-loss is like. You're swimming in a sea of emotions as your
brain randomly wanders off into different states, sometimes many at once,
sometimes you get stuck in one. Sometimes that state is incredible panic,
sometimes you're crying-laughing for 10 minutes straight. This is a common
experience I've had on measly 300-500ug doses.

As for the universe claim, as far fetched as it sounds, maybe some of these
systems are abstractions of the universal systems. What we are perceiving in
these insane states are also little clues into how the universe organizes
itself and a peek at something pre-selfawareness.

That last paragraph is all bull-shit heresy but even with my lighter doses
I've had remarkable insights. Things that have changed my life in incredible
ways. It's like a Pi of molecules or some shit.

edit: grammar

~~~
derefr
> I would speculate that LSD turns on System 2 where normally my System 1
> brain would give me an immediate response.

As far as I've read, LSD is, surprisingly, just a serotonin agonist, similar
to anti-depressants or MDMA. (Technically, it's a _non-selective_ serotonin
agonist, and it does this by _reversing_ the chemical reactions that take
serotonin apart, to basically "un-use-up" serotonin you've already spent--
which might explain its differing experiential effects--but in the end it
still means "more serotonin in the brain.")

Now, the two things serotonin has been heavily implicated for in neurology,
are _pleasure_ (though not _reward_ ; that's dopamine), and _neurogenesis_ :
serotonin is basically released when something "feels good" in a sensual way--
something looks aesthetically pleasing, something tastes delicious, etc.--as a
signal to the _rest_ of your brain to backtrack to what _caused_ this stimulus
to happen, and build up the neurons involved. Basically, if I find some tasty
berries while foraging, reinforce the memory of the walk I took to get to the
berries. [This effect can be harnessed: consume a bit of some fat-saturated
food right after you study something, if you want to remember it better.]

But LSD, MDMA, and other drugs that stimulate serotonin release, can have
psychedelic effects well beyond what you'd expect from "remembering things
better." This is because the reaction to serotonin, _neurogenesis_ , goes way
beyond sensible memory formation. It takes _any_ spikes in electrochemical
activity that are going on in the brain at the time, and says "that: build up
the synapse for that." And, of course, neurons have an underlying level of
_noise_ , that usually gets buried under actual cognition--so, when you turn
the "gain" up on what "becomes brain cells", suddenly you start forming
'concepts' for ideas that are made of _nothing at all_ \--the feeling of
seeing shared properties between things that have none. Which would indeed,
likely, be best described as "a trip."

Of course, this also informs the other thing people--especially those in
creative fields--say about LSD: that it's a life-altering experience, quite
foundational for later productive work. This is basically because pushing up
the "noise floor," if you have a lot of potential ideas lurking just below the
surface as potential connections you haven't made between concepts, ready to
be exploited--they'll get wired together by the non-selective flood of
serotonin too. But, unlike the nodes for "the purpleness of music" or what-
have-you, these nodes will actually self-reinforce once created--that is,
they're _useful_ to have, so you'll keep using them--so they'll stick around,
whereas the other synapses will just get their reactivity scaled back down
when it turns out how purple a song is doesn't have any causal impact on
anything else. :)

~~~
draakon
Thank you for this very interesting post, but I would like to point out a few
things.

Most currently used anti-depressants are serotonin (some also norepinephrine
and/or dopamine) _reuptake inhibitors_ , not _agonists_. Tetracyclic
antidepressants even act as _antagonist_ (inverse agonists). Buspirone (more
an anti-anxiety than AD medication) functions as a serotonin receptor partial
agonist, but that is selective (5-HT1A) and I have never heard that it has any
psychedelic value.

I would say there's a way more than just "more serotonin in the brain". That
suggestion is even VERY DANGEROUS: too much serotonin means serotonin
syndrome, which is potentially fatal condition. It may cause hallucinations,
but rarely pleasurable ones and they are accompanied by various unpleasant
symptoms such as nausea, sweating, tremor and eventually death. So, please
don't try to abuse SSRI/SNRI anti-depressants. Few other AD-s have
recreational value (for example tianeptine), but not for psychedelic
experiences.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-depressants>

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tricyclic_antidepressant>

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin_syndrome>

~~~
derefr
Right--I probably shouldn't have even mentioned anti-depressants; X-monoamine
reuptake inhibitors don't have much at all to do with X-monoamine agonists in
terms of effect.[1] I was mostly just trying to connect the discussion to
something people would more commonly have actual experience with.

So, to reinforce the parent: serotonin syndrome is very dangerous for
precisely that reason of "neurological gain" mentioned above--eventually when
you turn gain up enough, you get _clipping_ [2], and then you don't have a
_signal_ any more, you have a _seizure_. Surprisingly, it's very hard to do
this with LSD--probably _because_ of its differing pharmacodynamics from
regular serotonin agonists--but it's a real risk of pretty much any other drug
that affects serotonin at all, either in overdose, or in combination with
other drugs, even ones you might not expect (the nicotine in cigarettes is an
MAOI!)

But anyway, it's really a shame that we aren't each (legally) given the
neurological equivalent of a "chemistry set" at some point in our lives, to
adjust all the knobs on our own brains and learn the effects. Knowing what
serotonin, dopamine, GABA, acetylcholine, etc. are in a clinical sense is one
thing; but intuitively understanding that a feeling you're experiencing is
_the way it feels from the inside_ [3] when some monoamine or another happens
to be at a certain level of concentration in your brain at the moment, is
quite another.

[1] Though you'd be surprised what things are, in fact, reuptake inhibitors
(what you classically think of as "therapeutic drugs") instead of agonists
(what you clasically think of as "stimulants.") Cocaine, for example, is just
a triple (serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine) reuptake inhibitor;
basically, ADD medication + an SNRI anti-depressant. In another society
without our history of race-discrimination-related drug bans, Coca Cola (the
original stuff) might be the office-worker's morning stimulant of choice
instead of coffee. :)

[2] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipping_(audio)>

[3]
[http://lesswrong.com/lw/no/how_an_algorithm_feels_from_insid...](http://lesswrong.com/lw/no/how_an_algorithm_feels_from_inside/)

~~~
draakon
Thanks, you have interesting points.

To others who are interested in psychoactive drugs I would like to suggest
following book (you are probably already familiar with it):

 _A Primer of Drug Action_ by Robert Julien ( [http://www.amazon.com/Primer-
Drug-Action-Robert-Julien/dp/14...](http://www.amazon.com/Primer-Drug-Action-
Robert-Julien/dp/1429233435/) )

It contains concise and objective information about various psychoactive
substances, their effects and mechanisms of action.

------
orasis
An insane and incredible book that I highly recommend reading is "A Heart
Blown Open", the autobiography of a crazy Zen master / LSD manufacturer Jun Po
Denis Kelly. Its the most unreal life I have ever come across.
[http://www.amazon.com/Heart-Blown-Open-Practice-
Master/dp/16...](http://www.amazon.com/Heart-Blown-Open-Practice-
Master/dp/1611250080)

------
rdl
I wonder if there is some plausible medical research which could justify
20-50mg LSD doses.

~~~
DanBC
In 1962 a scientist gave an elephant LSD. Unfortunately they got the dosing
very wrong and gave the animal a massive overdose. The elephant died.

([http://scienceblogs.com/retrospectacle/2007/05/30/science-
va...](http://scienceblogs.com/retrospectacle/2007/05/30/science-vault-how-
much-lsd-doe-1/))

~~~
wfn
If I recall the story correctly, they gave the elephant other drugs, too (to
counter the effects of LSD after some hours/time into the experiment), and
some of those countering drugs had associated known LD-50 (probably not
measured for elephants, though..) - would need to reread the original text.

~~~
swombat
Yes, I don't have a link to the original article, but iirc they gave the
elephant a gigantic dose compared to its body weight (the amount needed per kg
of body weight goes down dramatically as body weight increases). The elephant
started having what looked like seizures (faire enough, after basically eating
the human equivalent of a full thimble of LSD), so they gave it a whole bunch
of other drugs to try and stop the seizure. Then other things happened, so
they gave it more drugs... etc.

~~~
rdl
It seems more plausible that they hated elephants rather than wanted to do
science.

------
oijaf888
Try reading this: <http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008DZEWF8> for another point of
view on LSD and the impact it has.

~~~
michaelochurch
I tend to think of these things as karmic accelerators. The karma that would
usually ripen over 2 years is, instead, experienced in 12 hours. If that karma
is negative, that might take the form of an immediate psychotic crisis instead
of some longer-to-unfold variety that might, due to time, be more manageable.

My personal belief is that, moreso than any religious belief, it's important
to manage the karma we experience-- to learn from the bad, and not to turn the
good into bad by becoming hubristic. Negative karma _will_ ripen, and the
important thing to do is to let it do so in a way that doesn't turn into
recursive negativity that generates more bad karma (either for oneself, or in
negative actions toward others). What bothers me about these drugs is that
they seem to take away some of that ability to manage the karma that comes
through. You experience a lot of sudden karmic ripening, which is interesting,
but the insight that needs to develop over time isn't there for a lot of
people, and those I've met who I think _could_ use those drugs effectively
(rather than haphazardly) often have no interest. I've been very unimpressed
by most of the drug mystics I've met, because most tend to be sophomoric and
unbalanced. I'd rather talk to a zen master any day of the week.

Personally, I'm not interested in using these drugs at this point in my life,
but I don't think they should be illegal or as stigmatized (in the larger
society) as they are. They're probably less dangerous than alcohol. The
problem is that, if you choose to use these drugs, you're trying out a
technology that's still in the very early experimental stages, mostly because
the research has been (wrongly, I would argue) outlawed.

~~~
bloaf
I have always thought LSD works in this way:

Your brain gets data, and has models of how all the data fits together. For
example, if you look at someone you don't know, your brain will get the data
"appearance" and plug it into the model "assorted stereotypes" and get out
some expectations about who that stranger is.

What LSD does is _perturb_ those models of how data fits together. If your
models are in line with reality, you don't have much to worry about. After
your trip, everything will settle back to about where it was before. If,
however, your models are out of whack (e.g. you blame others for failures that
are your own fault) then you run the risk of having some really _really_
unpleasant realizations while you're looking at the data without your old
model mucking things up.

~~~
michaelochurch
I disagree, if only because I think some people diverge farther from reality
when they take these drugs. I know some people who've gone from "slightly
weird" to derelict insanity because of them.

If a person's already on a bad course, then psychedelics (under typical
recreational use patterns) are going to throw this person farther out into
space. The negative experience, in this case, isn't that person being ripped
back into reality, but going even further away from it.

~~~
bloaf
Could be, I'll admit I don't have much experience in this arena. I used the
word perturb deliberately though, because it does not necessarily have to make
you come closer to reality.

------
tb303
I often think that Steve Jobs' biography is the worst thing that has happened
to enlightenment, and the methods we seek in achieving it, in modern culture.

This was a great read. Thanks for sharing it. It's a shame the responses are
overwhelmingly arrogant and myopic/naive. You don't know what you don't know,
especially when it comes to the individual perception of others.

------
cnp
For anyone who is curious (or skeptical) about the incredible potential for
psychedelic use in a therapeutic setting, I highly recommend this read:

<http://www.salon.com/2011/09/28/the_new_lsd_cure/>

Probably the best general article I've read on the subject in recent times;
it's also very hopeful.

~~~
erock
you can also read what happens when you take it too far
<http://www.freeleonardpickard.org/Skinner-Timeline.html>
[http://www.dallasdancemusic.com/awareness-
politics/73509-tee...](http://www.dallasdancemusic.com/awareness-
politics/73509-teen-kidnapped-tortured.html) <http://www.vice.com/read/life-
is-a-cosmic-giggle-803-v18n5>

of course rumor has it he would take DMT via IV for 8 + hours several times a
week. I can only imagine what that would do to someone's mind (hint it
wouldn't be pretty)

~~~
cnp
Oh yeah, I've read that Vice article before. EVIL dude. I couldn't imagine
anything worse, physical or otherwise.

~~~
erock
a few years ago i read the account of what went down with the kidnapping,
Truly horrible stuff there, highlights include ball stomping, injecting him
with an unknown substance which still affects him (likely a parasite) and
leaving him for dead in the middle of the desert. For some reason I can't find
it, which is likely for the better

------
nnq
Does anyone have real data on the LD50 (median lethal dose) for LSD in
primates or something more similar to humans than rats? ...I find it nearly
impossible to find any good hard data on this, and considering that the
substance was once researched even by the military, there should be some data
somewhere.

...and no, you can't compare LD50 for _iv injected_ LSD with _injested or
mouth-absorbed_ LSD, there might be very different pharmacokinetics and the
deaths from injected doses might be a "reflex" heart stop or some other
preventable cardiovascular side-effect.

~~~
xshoppyx
It was researched by the military for interrogation purposes IIRC. I think
they used human subjects for this so I doubt any lethal doses were given, and
doubt even further that they would be published if so.

------
springishere
This kind of thing seems, unwise, to say the least. If you value your brain
functioning the way it does now, do not even think about this kind of thing.
Don't get me wrong I have nothing against psychedelics, but this is not
healthy and is unsafe for your brain. Most people who take a thumbprint never
REALLY come back to their old selves. If you want a little psychedelic therapy
session, just eat some fungus you can find in the forest. It's natural, rarely
dangerous, It'll teach you a lot, but it won't permanently change you unless
you want it to.

~~~
michaelochurch
_just eat some fungus you can find in the forest. It's natural, rarely
dangerous, It'll teach you a lot, but it won't permanently change you unless
you want it to._

If you don't know what you're eating, that's _very_ dangerous. Foraging
mushrooms without knowing what they are is a terrible idea, because some are
deadly.

(I don't think that's what you meant, but in the rural US there are people who
forage mushrooms, both for food and drug purposes. It's an awful idea if you
don't know what you're doing.)

~~~
virtualwhys
cow patty shrooms: wash, boil water, make tea, take a walk, sit.

------
rosser
That sounds vaguely like some of my experiences with ayahuasca.

------
caetano
From my experiences involving meditation and psychedelics I find it to be an
energetic transformation. Basically, the drugs alters the subject's energetic
vibration which pushes awareness into different realms.

The chakra model is a common map of these vibrations:

[http://www.grdn.cc/energy-slash-quality-slash-organ-slash-
ac...](http://www.grdn.cc/energy-slash-quality-slash-organ-slash-activation)

Personally I'm finding some of these levels are achievable without the use of
drugs. I used to work with micro-doses of LSD, 1 day dose 10ug / 2 days off,
but quickly found I can achieve the states through meditation.

Here's a section from Ram Dass book "Be Here Now". He travels to India seeking
answers to what LSD could be all about. He eventually encounters a very
advanced yogi:

\---

He looked at me and extended his hand. So I put into his hand what's called a
"White Lightning". This is an LSD pill and this one was from a special batch
that had been made specially for me for traveling. And each pill was 305
micrograms, and very pure. Very good acid. Usually you start a man over 60,
maybe with 50 to 75 micrograms, very gently, so you won't upset him. 300 of
pure acid is a very solid dose.

He looks at the pill and extends his hand further. So I put a second pill -
that's 610 micrograms - then a third pill - that's 915 micrograms - into his
palm.

That is sizeable for a first dose for anyone!

"Ah-cha."

And he swallow them! I see them go down. There's no doubt. And that little
scientist in me says, "This is going to be very interesting!"

All day long I'm there, and every now and then he twinkles at me and nothing -
nothing happens! That was his answer to my question. Now you have the data I
have.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Be_Here_Now_(book)>

\---

~~~
gnosis
Decades after _"Be Here Now"_ was published, Ram Dass published a follow-up
interview, in which he revealed that he found out that his yogi had actually
never taken the LSD he was given. Instead, he used a magician's sleight of
hand trick to make it appear that he swallowed the LSD when he did not.

------
conformal
i spent a couple hours talking to a guy who had supposedly done approximately
60 mg print back in the day.

one component i didn't see in this blog post was what he described as "A
PIERCING WHITE LIGHT". :)

~~~
rdl
I know of a fair number of people in the "700 club" (700mg single dose,
liquid, instilled onto tongue); seem to have lived productive lives to date.

What's two orders of magnitude more? :)

~~~
sneak
700mcg you mean?

~~~
rdl
Yes, I meant 700 micrograms :(

------
the_decider
Hey guys, with your cynical, snide comments...What would Steve Jobs do?...Not
that I condone drug use, but...at least some guys have the guts to push their
limits...for better or worse.

------
batgaijin
I remember finding this <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uFzhEDdexc> when I
read that article

------
oneggshells
Brian Wilson explains rather well:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d45F7PqxxY>

------
nwh
If nothing else, that's needlessly expensive.

------
exodust
> "LSD is a direct message from God. Period."

> "I feel high all the time still and it's been years."

Reason to avoid large doses right there.

------
muster
Brilliance.

------
powertower
The described LSD "thumbprint" sounds more like 10-30mg to me.

As a grain or two of table-top salt is about 1mg (*but this of course depends
on the density of the substance).

Either way it sounds like a horrifying experience for anyone that's not ready.
And also for those that are.

The first time I tried mushrooms, instead of 1 stem and a cap (of some fairly
potent shrooms), I ate the entire bag.

Then I made the further mistake of trying to sleep it off. Let's just say that
was a mistake as at least otherwise I would have remained slightly inside the
real realm, even if it was melting apart.

What happened afterwards, as I fell asleep and at the same time was aware,
while tripping (in the worst of ways), had me in a place you don't want to
ever go.

~~~
gnosis
_"I ate the entire bag. Then I made the further mistake of trying to sleep it
off..."_

Sounds like you also made a major mistake in tripping without an experienced
guide to help you through the experience.

Any guide worth their salt would have helped you select the proper dose, would
know that you're not going to be able to sleep off a serious psychedelic
experience, and would have known how to help you have a positive experience.

Unfortunately, way too many people try psychedelics without having much of a
clue as to how to use the substances constructively. Reading the following
link would be a good start:

[https://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/faqs/psychedelic_experi...](https://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/faqs/psychedelic_experience_faq.shtml)

------
singular
'It's not possible to describe what it's like. Except maybe DEATH.'

I know I'm going to be downvoted into oblivion, but I _have_ to link
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkFyGNjaQ8k>.

/reddit-style

