
Tomb venerated as burial place of Christ exposed for first time in centuries - hbcondo714
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/10/jesus-tomb-opened-church-holy-sepulchre/
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antognini
I had the privilege of visiting the Church of the Holy Sepulchre after
attending an astronomy conference in Israel a year ago. My wife and I got
there for a mass just a little before 6am so it wasn't very crowded. It was
really an extraordinary experience. The Edicule had something of a steampunk
feel to it, which I was not expecting. As the article mentions, it was built
in the 1800s, but due to the Status Quo agreement, it has not been maintained
at all and it looked like it could collapse at any moment.

The whole mass felt very surreal. As it was being celebrated there was
simultaneously an Armenian liturgy and Greek Orthodox liturgy being celebrated
on other sides of the Edicule. If you've ever been to one of those liturgies,
you know that there's an almost constant drone of chant throughout. At times
it was hard to hear the priest in front of us! I'm still not sure whether to
interpret the experience as being a wonderful illustration of the unity or the
disunity of the Christian Church.

~~~
virtualwhys
Spent the winter in Israel a couple of years ago. The old city in Jerusalem is
awe inspiring.

As for the Holy Sepulchre, as a non-Christian I found it pretty surreal.
Clearly for the faithful it's a big deal, saw people outright crying coming
out of the Sepulchre.

The church itself is beautiful, powerful artwork from all of the sects
(Ethiopian included). Particularly the fresco at the entrance, Christ being
laid to rest, the disciples in tears, pretty moving piece.

Unfortunately my experience was darkened by a group of troublemaker teenagers;
saw them shove an old woman deep in prayer, just appalling. On leaving they
followed me and one of them spit in my hair. When I turned around the kid
said, "only water, only water".

Needless to say Jerusalem's a complex mix of cultures, history, and religions.

~~~
alsetmusic
> saw people outright crying coming out of the Sepulchre

This sort of reaction is deeply troubling to me because I see it as evidence
of the overwhelming grip that religions have on (some of) their followers. It
reminds me of videos of teenagers crying at the sight of Michael Jackson or
the Beatles at live performances. It is unnecessary.

My mother, for example, is unable to laugh at even the most trivial of jokes
about her religion, things that aren't even attacking her religion but simply
having fun with a play on words. I am constantly seeking to remind her that it
is a lack of lightheartedness that is at the rock of extremism. I encourage
her involvement at her church for social reasons while attempting to remind
her that anything that can't be laughed about is being taken too seriously
(this is the foundation for many unnecessary wars and acts of violence or
discrimination).

I know the likelihood that I'll ever succeed is small, but it's important to
me to wake people from what I consider to be a way of thinking that impairs
sound judgement (say, when voting or choosing how to react to world politics).
I'm not against religion or the right to practice religion, just its ability
to cause hysteria.

~~~
Hondor
Not just religion. People cried when Princess Diana died. They cried on the
anniversary of 9/11\. And on 9/11 itself. People develop personal feelings
towards popular people/events/concepts. That's just how we are, automatically
forming emotional relationships, even when they're one-directional like in all
these cases.

~~~
Cthulhu_
I wonder if people cried during Apple keynotes / events. Can't deny that
people get an emotional response from that.

People aren't robots.

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ohthehugemanate
I always find stories like this fascinating. We're talking about a place where
a mythical event was supposed to occur. It's like analyzing the place where
Promethius first brought fire, or the spot where Osiris was resurrected. Maybe
interesting for anthropology, but by no means the 'hard science' implied by
the tone and presentation of the article.

Of course they're OUR myths, so it's important that we describe them with
serious sounding words, and pretend that they're a valid spur for hard
scientific research.

There isn't any evidence, outside of mythology, that this place or slab of
marble has anything special to reveal about our universe. Just because you're
looking through a scientific tool, does not change the fact that what you're
looking at is mythology. You're just looking at a communion wafer through a
microscope.

Still, it's fascinating to me that we present it in the same tone and context
that we present LHC results.

~~~
TeMPOraL
> _You 're just looking at a communion wafer through a microscope._

Well, I hope people are actually doing that. I think people believing in some
phenomenon should aways encourage scientific inquiry into it.

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YeGoblynQueenne
I've been to the tomb, once, when I was 13 ish. I remember an Orthodox priest
inside the chamber, who was taking donations in exchange for candlesticks and
talismans etc. I also remember him telling my father to leave the money on the
tomb, next to his goods. My father, who is no more a Christian than I am was
absolutely disgusted at that.

~~~
jacquesm
Par for the course. Quote George Carlin:

'Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible ... all-
perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise being that somehow just can't handle
money!, Always needs a little more.'

~~~
wodencafe
George's "Religion is Bullshit" bit was his absolute best, and my personal
favorite.

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andrewflnr
When I saw the title, I thought maybe they'd found actual evidence about where
Jesus was buried. No, it's the traditional birthplace, identified as such in
AD 329, apparently.

Edit: find->found

~~~
exclusiv
Can you clarify? The article is pretty clear about it being the known tomb.
They exposed the marble surface.

~~~
robbrown451
The article may be clear, but the title is not.

~~~
wyclif
Haven't you guys been to Sunday School? [insert Indiana Jones meme here]

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vacri
It's surprising that they've done this, given the Immovable Ladder's example
of just how difficult it is to alter anything in the Church of the Holy
Sepulchre.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immovable_Ladder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immovable_Ladder)

~~~
jacquesm
Nothing some termites or woodworms can't fix, and it will at least lay to rest
one more religious conflict.

From your link:

"The primary conflicts, however, surrounding the ladder and its immovability
have been disputed by a lasting conflict between the Greek Orthodox Church and
the Armenian Apostolic Church."

Surely such insect activity could be interpreted as 'an act of God' and then
all parties could get on with their lives.

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salimmadjd
Article is misleading. _" Restorers working in the Church of the Holy
Sepulchre in Israel uncover stone slab venerated as the resting place of Jesus
Christ"_

But it looks like the church is actually in the Palestinian lands [1]. Is
there political motivation here?

[1]
[https://www.google.com/maps/@31.7724981,35.2362521,15z](https://www.google.com/maps/@31.7724981,35.2362521,15z)

~~~
Illniyar
The old city is technically part of the area taken in the 67 war, which is the
areas which are usually talked about when refereing to palastine.

But unlike the west bank, it was formally annexed by israel, it contains
jewish holy sites such as the west wall, it is not currently part of the PA
and I doubt anyone is seriously expecting it to be part of a future
palastinian state (in a two state solution at least).

~~~
salimmadjd
Thanks for clarifying

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rolal
A lot of the National Geographic societys work these days seems to have a
strong appeal to religous people. They are owned by the FOX corporation and I
wonder if this religious market is something that FOX is pushing them to focus
on.

~~~
wyclif
One story about archaeology, including the science thereof, in an ancient
church isn't going to be a deal-breaker even for people who are fair-minded
atheists.

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rurban
They should have really mentioned the real most likely burial place of the
historical Jesus, which was found some decades ago by the archeaologist James
Tabor, the Talpiot Tomb. The same guy also found the tomb of Jesus' family
before. This tomb was opened in 2005 for some short time, but there's a new
jewish apartment building on top of it, so they rather go with the Church of
Holy Sepulcher fairy tale.

Not many scientists but many Christians believe that Jesus actually lay in
this Church of Holy Sepulcher for 3 days.

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13of40
Something about that picture reminds me of VGER from Star Trek.

But seriously, it should be an interesting read once they've fully studied it.

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kixpanganiban
That's Angels and Demons feels right there. Almost expecting Tom Hanks to show
up.

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d3ckard
It will be really inconvenient if they find a body in there...

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british_india
I call complete bullshit. From having watched shows like NCS, we know the
amount of direct evidence it takes to establish something like who was buried
somewhere.

Like the shroud of Turin this is just another example of wishful thinking.
They found some random tomb that has survived and announced that it was the
tomb of this fictional character Christ. No chain of custody for evidence,
just the wishful thinking of somebody who wants it to be true, just like the
entire resurrection theory. Complete and total hogwash.

If we were to say this is the burial site of Joseph the plumber, the
proponents of this idea would have no evidence to argue otherwise.

~~~
gadders
I'm an atheist, but I don't think Jesus was a fictional character.

~~~
imaginenore
Why? What evidence is there?

~~~
Cthulhu_
I wonder if it actually matters if he was real or not, or whether he did what
the major religions claim he did. What matters is that billions of people
believe it, and he's an example to billions of people, giving them a moral
example to strive towards.

You know, like superheroes in the US. They don't exist (which is factually
verifiable still), but people are fans of them. What if in 2000 years people
forget or lose the origins but the story of e.g. Star Wars is passed on
through the ages? It's not proven to be real, but it provides a moral example,
a distinction of good vs evil, and a code to live by.

~~~
qbrass
Now repeat the history of religious wars except now you know everyone's
killing each other over movie preferences.

