
China Begins Longest Bullet Train Service - lelf
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/27/business/global/worlds-longest-high-speed-rail-line-opens-in-china.html?_r=1&
======
melling
That's the equivalent of crossing half the United States.

China must have around 7000 miles of track by now. The US still has none. It's
really hard to convince Americans that it's worth the money.

We probably won't realize our mistake until later in the 21st century when
China converts it's 20,000 miles of track to maglevs running at 300 mph.

~~~
ericcumbee
You have to also consider that China, is a centrally controlled authoritarian
state. If the government says we want to build something here it is going to
happen.

In the US you have a strong concept of individual property rights. The
government can seize property through a process of eminent domain, but its
difficult, takes time, and is politically unpopular.

~~~
crdoconnor
Most of the HSR is built on stilts precisely so the Chinese government doesn't
have to seize land, and most of the (agricultural) land it goes over is still
being used in exactly the same way that it was before.

~~~
gamblor956
In the US and the West in general, that is considered an easement on the
underlying land. Generally, acquiring new easements also requires eminent
domain if faced with a hostile landowner.

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stuaxo
Here it is on the BBC if anyone gets stuck behind the paywall
[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-
china-20842836](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-20842836)

~~~
seanmcdirmid
And both of those are blocked for those of us behind the great firewall.

~~~
marukokinno
BBC is not blocked, at least here in Beijing or other big cities. Are you in
the countryside of Northern China? I advice to try www.myssh.cc , very fast
and very cheap (2 USD a month), it unblocks everything, but then you have to
turn it off when you want to watch all the free streaming movies, TV series,
and music easy available inside the great wall.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
It is blocked on my home ISP (telecom?) and CMCC and Unicom in Beijing; I just
checked and got the dreaded invalid argument message. Blocking isn't exactly
consistent between ISPs, but when three of the big ones block something, I'm
assuming this is at least a citywide block, what ISP are you using? It could
just be a misconfigured selective block, it is a weird error for a true block.

Every way of jumping the wall winds up not working 2 months after you've
bought a year of service. I've giving up on trying.

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swatkat
1,200 miles Bullet train is just awesome! For railfans out there, I'd like to
mention about Indian Railways' _Himsagar Express_ [1]. It's one of the longest
running trains in India, covering 2,306 miles from southern tip to northern
tip. Average speed is only 33mph :)

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himsagar_Express](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himsagar_Express)

~~~
netllama
If that's the 'express', I'd hate to think of what the non-express train's
travel speed & time is.

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randomor
The ticket price of traveling in-between these two cities(Beijing and
Guangzhou) by high-speed train is higher than the flight, which makes sense,
considering the airplane is significantly cheaper after taking-off. The same
logic with hyperloop vs. planes, one is designed for between-cities commutes,
one for cross-country/continent travel. Personal story, now my mom can have
her breakfast at my hometown, take the high-speed train for 2hrs to the
closest international port Guangzhou and make it to the 1pm flight. It used to
be 7 hours.

------
adaml_623
Am I the only person who really expected the major news services covering this
story to include a map?

------
throwaway_yy2Di
_" covering a distance in eight hours that is about equal to that from New
York to Key West, Fla.,"_

So I looked it up: the flight takes 3:17 or 2:49 depending on the direction.
(Delta 1343, nonstop, B737. Only flies Saturdays).

~~~
oddx
Another difference: air travel usually require 3-4 hours more for travel to
and from airport, check in, baggage claim. Railroad travel requirements
usually a lot simpler and railroad stations usually located near center of
city.

~~~
marukokinno
Also the planes always have at least 30 minutes delay before take-off (here in
China),and yes, airports are usually far from the Downtown. Anyway, Trains are
much more comfortable, less stressing, you can take more luggage, you can sit
at the restaurant, have internet with a 3G stick, play cards and make friends,
many trains have a smoking area (in China). I prefer trains over planes every
time.

~~~
netllama
Not sure that I'd consider 'many trains have a smoking area' as a good thing.
Last year, I spent two weeks travelling around China via trains, and without a
doubt the most annoying part of the experience was the rampant second hand
smoke wafting throughout the entire train. While there are designated 'smoking
areas' on the trains, they don't work so well when the train staff keep all
the doors wide open all the time. And I tried closing them a few times, and
less than a few minutes later some 'helpful' train car attendant had re-opened
the door. I'm pretty sure I increased my likelihood of contracting lung cancer
by a few percentage points from the two weeks that I spent on Chinese trains
(not to mention the polluted air throughout the country).

------
tokenadult
The likely roll-out of self-driving cars in the United States over the same
time frame[1] is one reason not to expect high-speed train lines in the United
States. The United States already has the infrastructure in place (the
Interstate Highway system) to make self-driving cars a quite feasible means of
long-distance, point-to-point transportation. The United States cities and
towns in the central part of the United States are largely where they are
because they are along historic railroad lines, but the railroad lines in my
region of the country are increasingly being turned into rails-to-trails
dedicated biking and walking paths, which I can take on very long trips from
my immediate neighborhood, and except for the parts of the United States where
there are already a lot of train users (notably the Northeast Corridor), there
is not likely to be much increase in consumer demand for train rides, no
matter how great the government subsidies supporting them.

China has rushed ahead in high-speed rail development, at the cost of human
life[2] and corruption,[3] but the United States has no need to follow this
example. We will mostly be taking long-distance trips here by plane (as we
already do) or by car (as we also already do, except with self-driving
becoming more and more commonplace). There isn't any particular need in the
United States to build new high-speed train lines.

[1]
[http://www.wired.com/magazine/2012/01/ff_autonomouscars/](http://www.wired.com/magazine/2012/01/ff_autonomouscars/)

[http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142412788732380820...](http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323808204579085271065923340)

[http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/01/safety-self-driving-
car...](http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/01/safety-self-driving-car/)

[http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405270230442800...](http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304428004579354520148991170)

[2] [http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/29/world/asia/design-flaws-
ci...](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/29/world/asia/design-flaws-cited-in-
china-train-crash.html)

[http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/10/22/121022fa_fact_...](http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/10/22/121022fa_fact_osnos?currentPage=all)

[3] [http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/08/liu-zhijun-
sent...](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/08/liu-zhijun-sentenced-
death-corruption)

~~~
apsec112
Railroads and streetcars were _hugely_ profitable in the US, until the
government subsidized cars by:

\- giving everyone high-quality roads

\- setting road tolls to zero or almost nothing

\- making dense housing illegal to build with zoning laws

\- requiring businesses to provide free parking

\- requiring home builders to provide free parking

\- all the crap US does internationally to secure oil supply lines

\- not taxing pollution, noise, or other car externalities

\- enacting crazy regulations on railroads; for example, American railroads
can't buy European trains, they must build their own custom-designed trains at
enormous expense

and on and on and on it goes, all at taxpayer (or business owner) expense. An
American on a road trip thinks cars are cheap because everyone else is forced
to absorb the cost.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Your reasons are flawed even if your conclusion is right. People want non
dense housing, it isn't required or even promoted by most city
governments....quite the opposite in a city like Seattle that is trying to
become more dense with incentives. Ditto with free parking.

Americans can't buy euro trains because our tracks share freight traffic, so
passenger trains have to be built to survive collisions with heavier freight
trains.

Tl;dr people want cheap driving, it isn't the evil government that forces them
to drive.

