
WeWork lays off 2,400 employees - big_chungus
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/21/wework-lays-off-2400-employees.html
======
roland35
From the article, 2,400 employees is 19% of the peak of 12,500 employees on
June 30. There was no mention of where the cuts were made however.

I am curious how many "white collar" type jobs WeWork would have, since I
heard from previous discussions here that they were hiring for roles in
unrelated-to-real-estate things like machine learning. I would imagine that
there are lots of hourly-type roles managing the sites, but 12,500 seems
reasonable for 849 locations (from
[https://www.wework.com/locations](https://www.wework.com/locations)), ~14
people per location, assuming that they are included in that 12,500 number.

~~~
ben_jones
I currently keep a wework hotdesk and they do have a sizable headcount at each
location - 3 rotating front desk people, a location manager, and maybe 3/4
rotating maintenance staff. I think they might contract out the maintenance
staff, but that's still 4x number_of_locations just for that.

~~~
pkaye
How many office did WeWork have at peak vs current?

------
swozey
I can't fathom the morale at this place. I really hope things get better for
these poor people caught in the middle of this shit show.

~~~
fred_is_fred
The worst part of this for people will be having WeWork on their resume.

~~~
swozey
I don't really agree with this. I despise Facebook and happily retweeted a
post a few weeks ago specifically aimed at helping FB engineers find work
elsewhere.

I'd prefer to help good people get out of bad places.

[https://twitter.com/EricaJoy/status/1190701524210438144](https://twitter.com/EricaJoy/status/1190701524210438144)

~~~
p1esk
Wow. You do realize most engineers have to work at far shittier companies and
environments than FB? And for a lot less money.

~~~
swozey
Then they should research the companies in the post and if they're interested
in a change apply as well. No listing in that post is _catering_ to an ex-FB
employee by any means.

~~~
p1esk
It’s not about doing “research“. They would love to work at Facebook if they
could. FB software engineer is a dream job for many outside of SV bubble, and
even for many inside.

~~~
Jamwinner
It certainly was, nowdays its a bit more niche.

------
poulsbohemian
Why corporate boards are so inept, and allowed to remain so, I'll never
understand.

If you buy into the goal being "shareholder value" then plainly Softbank
failed. One could make the argument that WeWork's board did the things that
they thought created the most value - but if you implode in on yourself, you
clearly failed. Even if the self-dealing was not outright legal fraud, it was
plainly not to anyone's benefit apart from Adam Newmann - which again is
complicit behavior on the part of both boards. None of it is good business.

~~~
droopyEyelids
The board has the perspective of _ownership_. The employee has the perspective
of _being commanded_.

Imagine something nice that you own- like your car. Do you feel compelled to
understand your car? Must you be an excellent driver to own that car, if you
can afford it?

No. And while it's not exactly the same, the people generally look at the
company as a machine that makes them money. They don't have to be good at
anything to own that machine, and if they want, they can even share it with
their drug addict fail-child.

~~~
roymurdock
This is the ultimate problem with how we've structured public
corporations/LLCs in the US. When markets are working correctly in an
environment of low innovation, companies themselves becomes the product, and
the company's product itself just become a cashflow on a balance sheet. Grow
the company (and its userbase) to a point where it can be harvested (go
public) and then processed while you get paid out.

Nothing else in the environment matters if it's not on the balance sheet (most
notably pollution, social disruption, and general human suffering). Yvon
Chouinard has a great perspective on this in his book "Let My People Go
Surfing" where he meditates on the paradox of running a private business that
fights itself by automatically giving away portions of its revenue to charity
rather than paying out shareholders/reinvesting in growth. What do you do when
you see every sale your company makes as a failure in the fight against
consumption/towards sustainability?

------
advisedwang
Does this include the 1000 employees being forced to move from FTE work for
WeWork into working indirectly as contractors with JLL:
[https://twitter.com/WeWorkersCo/status/1195778138506190848](https://twitter.com/WeWorkersCo/status/1195778138506190848)

------
acl777
Saw this posted in another related story:

If you're affected by the WeWork layoffs and looking for a new role, fill this
out:

[https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdx4TOVN7AdgvyAZGbq...](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdx4TOVN7AdgvyAZGbquEV7gd4Ok5pJcTAtBXgPWY3sPe0ufg/viewform)

If you're interested in recruiting ex-WeWork folks, you can look them up here:

[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14CAtBsn3ZTL59tNMVbew...](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14CAtBsn3ZTL59tNMVbew2AlAh_mzPaSL5wOm4Sh8FD0/)

original source:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21199247](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21199247)

------
munificent
Hypothesis: Events like this are the modern moral equivalent of the giant,
gaudy, gilt-encrusted palaces of the 17th century.

Economic disparity has reached a point where those at the top end literally
have more money than they know what to do with and are increasingly spending
it on stupider and stupider things out of some perceived need to do
_something_.

~~~
stickfigure
_Events like this are the modern moral equivalent of the giant, gaudy, gilt-
encrusted palaces of the 17th century._

I think this vastly overstates it. Versailles cost some significant fraction
of France's GDP - possibly as much as 25% in some years. WeWork's $10B is a
mere drop in the US' $20T GDP.

~~~
rchaud
WeWork is just one part of it, however. Uber is another Ponzi scheme, living
on underpriced rides and multi-billion losses for as long as their bond rating
holds up.

~~~
eternalny1
Uber isn'ta Ponzi scheme.

I use Uber all the time, as does everyone I know. Hell, I even drove for them
for a while.

They provide a needed service and they are subsidizing that to get rid of
competition like Lyft and to grow a huge user base. Then, it's likely they
will raise prices and start making money.

But it is not a Ponzi scheme. Last I checked, a local taxi company that is
still in business wants $30 to take me into town, which is 5 miles away. Uber
is $7.

~~~
rchaud
> But it is not a Ponzi scheme. Last I checked, a local taxi company that is
> still in business wants $30 to take me into town, which is 5 miles away.
> Uber is $7.

The cost of that $7 are the billions they lose every quarter. It's not
sustainable. They're a public company now, so to come up with fresh cash, they
have to issue bonds and pay interest on them. How will they repay it when they
aren't generating fresh cash through profits? They can't rely on VCs opening
their wallets whenever they needed money.

~~~
sanysany
I believe the plan is to increase prices.

Cheap rides are to gain marketshare and customer acquisition. Not saying the
strategy will be fruitful but it is a strategy.

~~~
notus
That's a terrible plan considering any one of their competitors could not
raise their own prices and now be a preferred choice to Uber.

------
u10
Imagine going from being on the verge of cashing out your equity options to
being fired within the space of 3 months.

------
FussyZeus
What on Earth is WeWork doing that requires TWELVE THOUSAND PEOPLE!? Holy
fucking shit

~~~
jonas21
Managing 800 physical office locations? That’s not really that many people per
location.

~~~
FussyZeus
Do they seriously have employees at each? I assumed it was either a franchise
or contractor thing. Rare for a tech company to actually hire people directly
for that sort of thing.

~~~
tentboy
They aren't a tech company. They are an office leasing and real estate
company, and have the appropriate employees for this type of business.

~~~
meritt
> and have the appropriate employees for this type of business

I disagree. WeWork has 836 locations and 12.5k (now 10k) employees, or ~12-15
employees per location. Regus/IWG has 3,306 locations and 9.6k employees, or
~3 employees per location.

How is 4-5x the number of employees for a comparable non-tech company
appropriate?

~~~
ghaff
You'd have to know how the two companies split functions between employees and
contractors. Though I'd not be surprised if WeWork were staffed relatively
heavily. To note something random, WeWork has an (unstaffed) booth at Kubecon
which suggests they do marketing activities that someone like Regus generally
doesn't.

~~~
onlyrealcuzzo
Probably because Regus is more interested in running a business and not
advertising to potential investors how cool it is.

Just my guess.

~~~
admn2
On top of that, Regus pays a huge portion of the employees at center hourly. I
know Regus is not sexy, but they should get credit for focusing on economics
that work at scale rather than just pumping up some ridiculous valuation with
no chance of liquidity outside of getting bought or IPOing.

------
pwinnski
Surprising absolutely nobody.

Meanwhile, Adam Neumann is still collecting a $1.7 Billion payout.

~~~
rchaud
Just think of the shareholder value that's been unlocked now that 2400 people
are out of a job!

------
wyldfire
More context: many employees of WeWork wrote a letter to management, covered
also in NYT: "‘We Are Not the Adam Neumanns of This World’: What WeWork
Employees Told Their Bosses" [1]

[1] [http://archive.is/8bVvY](http://archive.is/8bVvY)

------
sharkweek
If I'm Neumann, I'm taking 200-250 million dollars of my 1.7 billion in
winnings and giving it away to the laid off employees (about 90k each).

Imagine the positive press you could drum up about yourself! All while keeping
1.5 billion dollars!

~~~
nambit
Why?

~~~
cvhashim
> Imagine the positive press

~~~
jotm
Why? A fraction of that will buy you even better positive press.

------
neya
I still can't believe this guy gets to walk away with 1.7 billion dollars just
for building up fluff while all the people who helped him grow have dire
consequences both financial and personal. Unbelievable that this guy gets a
clean chit, and all this isn't considered criminal. This to me is almost at
the scale of Theranos. Only, this guy was smarter in the legal side of things,
perhaps.

~~~
berberous
I don’t really see why it’s his fault investors over valued his company — he
believed in his own spin and was phenomenally successful at building a large,
real business. This was not like Theranos where he was straight up lying about
a product working — anyone could analyze the business based on the
fundamentals, and investors seemed ever willing to invest at high valuations.

The self dealing was reprehensible and evidence of low morals in my view, but
none of those events actually materially impact the value of the business.
Instead, overnight, investors just came to their senses about what kind of
value this type of business is worth. Definitely a strategic misstep on his
part, but it’s not like he stole billions of value away from the company. The
drop in value is more like what happened to Uber or Blue Apron post IPO,
except, unfortunately for the employees, it happened before they could exit.

~~~
AlexandrB
> was phenomenally successful at building a large, real business

What? How? He built an 8b business with 16b in investment. _Anyone_ can do
that. Take 16b, put it in index funds, call yourself an investment bank. You'd
get better returns than -50%, for sure.

~~~
rollerboi
Not just _anyone_ gets 16b of funding to lose 50% on it. You need to be a very
charismatic CEO - maybe borderline cult-leader status

~~~
kmonsen
I think you also need some "special" investors. In this case softbank
appreciated the crazyness of the CEO.

~~~
rollerboi
Yes, but don't forget that those "special" investors were funded by even
richer, special-er investors.

Softbank funded WeWork via the Vision fund, which is primarily funded with
Saudi money.

------
ericmay
This will become quite the case study in the business world. There's so much
to learn from this mess.

------
postit
I’m glad I was included in the lay-offs. The situation was unbearable.

~~~
tr33house
care to share more from the inside? I would've also loved to be laid off with
severance if I were there but curious to hear if from your perspective

------
jackhack
Honestly I'm surprised there are 2400 employees who have stuck around this
long, waiting for the other shoe to drop. How could they not see the obvious
implosion coming? The proverbial tidal wave of ugly news has been steady for
months now.

~~~
sp332
Being laid off gets you unemployment. Quitting doesn't.

~~~
kamarg
It's not between sticking around or quitting. They could have gone out and
found a new job. One that presumably pays more than unemployment and quite
possibly given the current stage of the economic cycle, more than their
current job.

~~~
Justsignedup
I mean, if your lifestyle doesn't require the full payment, you can think of
it as a half-pay long vacation.

I for one wouldn't mind being unemployed for 3 months.

~~~
dragontamer
> I for one wouldn't mind being unemployed for 3 months.

A 3-month hole in your resume will be something you'd have to explain to your
future employers for the rest of your life.

~~~
perl4ever
There are places that demand your high school and/or college diplomas even if
it's been 30 years. There are places that give programmers tests with flow
charts. At some stage of maturity you realize there's no point in worrying
about pleasing everybody, because many of them are unreasonable and you'll
never get the chance anyway.

Whenever there are unreasonable rules and you really do want to get around
them, all you have to do is find a way to demonstrate your talent sufficiently
that people will bend them for you.

------
deusofnull
for a funny and informative recap of Adam Neuman's life leading up to the
formation of WeWork, check out this episode from the Grubstakers podcast.
Really, really wild the stuff this guy pulled and the bull it took to do so.
[https://soundcloud.com/grubstakers/episode-95-adam-
neumann-w...](https://soundcloud.com/grubstakers/episode-95-adam-neumann-
wework)

------
RickJWagner
I hate this for the laid-off employees. Especially at this time of the year,
this sucks.

I feel enraged for stockholders. WeWork's management wasn't 'sticking to the
knitting', as Buffett would say. They seemed preoccupied with trying to shape
the world (see link below) and not so much providing value for shareholders or
security to employees.

Hoping for a better, smarter, focused new company to come along and build the
business.

[https://www.businessinsider.com/wework-bans-
meat-2018-7](https://www.businessinsider.com/wework-bans-meat-2018-7)

------
WomanCanCode
Wework business model didn't make any sense. Why wouldn't market favors
competing landlords for rental spaces since that will ultimately brings the
best value for customers? Also, we definitely don't have a protection for
employees working in a startup like companies. Since our political system
currently favors the job creators, it's best to take them to court and so you
can get your side of the story out.

------
cmarschner
So, who will play Adam Neumann in the WeWork movie? Jim Carrey?

------
codegeek
Even if average Employee cost was $20,000/year, that is a whopping
$48,0000,000 (Million) profit added to the shareholders. What is their actual
revenue ?

~~~
chris11
In their filing for the IPO WeWork posted a net loss of 1.6 billion on 1.8
billion in revenue.

------
chvid
Judging from the incredible press, it would be amazing if the management can
hold the company together and it actually exists in 3 years.

~~~
rchaud
They will likely change the name, since it's become a punchline and will
always remind people of their fly-by-night founder.

------
rantwasp
WeWorkOnLayoffs - what a terrible turn this has taken and how many good people
are impacted by this. truly sad

------
pearjuice
Any predictions for EOL of WeWork?

------
rexreed
Sucks for the employees and everyone else who built up the founder's ego and
his wallets. But honestly, this is an indefensible business model with clearly
unsustainable economics. This deal and Theranos has convinced me that venture
capitalists aren't as a group particularly insightful or worthy of admiration.
Personally I hope the collapse of WeWork takes Meetup.com with it.

~~~
zopppo
Would you mind explaining what you mean? I can't see any connection between
wework and meetup.

~~~
rguzman
wework bought meetup in 2017.

~~~
zopppo
Ahh. I had no idea. Thanks!

------
salvagedcircuit
So does this mean that rents will finally start on the downward trend in NYC?
:D

------
acd
There is an startup bubble funded by central bank low interest rates. It’s
understandable that capital is seeking higher gains. What is not so ok is that
we are building a casino like economic bubble funding ideas which are not
profitable. If interest rates where higher bets would be more selective.

------
tnolet
“Career transition” is that what we’re calling lay-offs now?

~~~
flukus
An Australian Prime Minister road tested "liberated from their jobs" but that
was deemed insensitive: [https://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-18/abbott-
announces-supp...](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-18/abbott-announces-
support-package-for-holden-workers/5163950)

