
Jony Ive on Apple’s New HQ and the Disappearing iPhone - Nuance
https://www.wallpaper.com/design/jony-ive-apple-park
======
mostafah
They talk about the “disappearing” iPhone. That’s the kind of thing that every
designer talks about and strives for: putting the user and product first and
making the design an invisible servant of that. But, unfortunately, Ive’s
design have been the opposite of that in the last few years. Most of his
designs are about design.

The Steve Jobs Theatre is a good example. It’s very impressive and looks
great. But it serves the designer more than the user. It’s so “perfect” that
staircases would ruin it, so they are invisible. In the last iPhone event
Apple employees were standing there to show people where are the stairs. That
is not good design. It’s a conference venue but they had put temporary desks
outside for information/cards/… because it does not have a place for that.
Even bathrooms are hidden because they would ruin the designer’s great vision.
The whole thing is very impressive, but it’s bad design.

Edit: I’m not saying that Ive’s a bad designer. Not at all. He’s one of the
best. A great example from Apple’s recent works is how the lid of the new
MacBook Pros opens without the keyboard part moving up. And you can do it with
one finger. But, unfortunately, there are so many examples of bad design that
looks good.

~~~
pocketsquare2
> Edit: I’m not saying that Ive’s a bad designer. Not at all.

No, that's exactly what you're saying. Would you mind providing an example of
your Platonic ideal of a designer?

~~~
nkkollaw
And I totally agree.

I'm moving away from Apple because it's now looks over functionality.

~~~
throwaway0255
All iOS updates fall into one of these categories:

1\. New bugs are introduced

2\. The text messaging app has some new feature or widget I'll never use
adding a button to misclick or taking up more vertical space, and I need to
figure out how to hide it

3\. Some stock app has been completely redesigned for no discernible reason
whatsoever, and the new design is more visually appealing but renders some or
all of the app completely unusable or broken in some way

4\. A new stock app has been introduced that does nothing and doesn't matter
at all, and can't be removed

I can't think of a single part of any recent update to iOS that wasn't one of
those 4 things.

The most recent victim of #3 is the Podcasts app. What could be simpler than
this? I want to search for podcasts, maintain a list of my favorites, and then
view a list of their episodes starting with the most recent.

Apparently this is no longer possible.

There's a list called "Listen Now" that's showing me episodes from weeks ago.
Who the fuck knows how that list is populated, and what I'm seeing is
outdated, so moving on and never looking at that list again.

Then in "Library" there's a list of "Shows." When I click on a show it shows
me "My Episodes", which doesn't show me the most recent episodes, so moving on
and never looking at that again. Also, what exactly is "My Episode" supposed
to mean? What exactly is "mine" about an episode of a podcast?? Does this
imply all the other 7 lists of podcast episodes contain episodes that aren't
mine? So then whose are they?

Also in "Library" there's a list just called "Episodes." This also doesn't
show me the most recent episodes as far as I can tell, and certain podcasts
are missing entirely. Moving on and never looking at that again.

Below that is "Recently Updated" shows, which is identical to "Shows" except
ordered by update recency. Most every podcast is constantly being updated, so
this is functionally a random scramble of the Shows list. Completely
pointless, moving on and never looking at that again.

All in all, there are literally 8 separate lists of podcasts and podcast
episodes (outside of browse and search), and every single one of them is
completely useless except Library > Shows > [Show] > (Scroll all the way to
the bottom) > Available Episodes, and it's the single most deeply buried list
out of all of the lists.

For the life of me I cannot understand why they're going to such great lengths
to improve upon and bury a simple reverse chronological feed of episodes. You
can't improve it, you don't need to improve it, nobody asked you to improve
it, it's FINE. JUST SHOW ME THE EPISODE THAT HAPPENED THE MOST RECENTLY ok I'm
done.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
I never understood why Apple made a podcast app, there were several really
good ones in the store already matching a number of different tastes. Creating
their own took away from the overall environment rather than adding to it.

~~~
nkkollaw
From what I've read, it used to be bundled into iTunes, and they wanted to
simplify iTunes so they made a standalone app.

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touchofevil
Looks like a cool building, but I wonder how much mental bandwidth designing
it took up at Apple. The mac mini needs an update, they need to release a Mac
Pro that is viable for video pros, and they definitely haven't sold me on
their new macbook pros (without mag safe!) Also, where's the Apple equivalent
to the Hololens? And what happened to all the rumors about Apple cars and
Apple Smart TVs? How are they doing on creating smart home devices?

I'm not sure that they really should make cars, or TVs, but they are basically
an amazing phone company at this point and that's about it. Maybe, I don't
know, build an ad-free search engine and bake it into all your products so
that you can give google a run for their money instead of obsessing over a $5
billion building.

Edit: I forgot about the Apple watch, which I'm a fan of.

~~~
dbmonkey
One functional use of the building is that it will attract top employees. I
would rather spend ~1/4 of my time in a really nice building than what some
competitors use.

~~~
bla2
Meh, it's still open office. The campus looks nice, but design is how it
works.

~~~
ChuckMcM
They go out of their way to describe the segments as "configurable" with
"everything from open plan to individual offices." I makes me wonder if
initial reactions caught them by surprise.

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Bromskloss
For those who also wondered what espionage incident this might be about, the
"disappearing iPhone" seems to refer to this:

> But if Ive is a maker and industrial designer in the classic mould […] he is
> also the man most responsible for making our new most essential objects all
> but disappear. ‘As a design team our goal has been, in some ways, to get
> design out of the way. We try to define a solution that seems so inevitable
> that it does recede.’

------
Bromskloss
Those stairs [0] are reminiscent of those hugging the wall of the reading room
in the courtyard of the British Museum [1,2].

[0]
[https://cdn.wallpaper.com/main/93wpr17dec118-2.jpg](https://cdn.wallpaper.com/main/93wpr17dec118-2.jpg)

[1] [http://www.thecosytraveller.co.uk/wp-
content/uploads/2015/08...](http://www.thecosytraveller.co.uk/wp-
content/uploads/2015/08/20150725_151217.jpg)

[2]
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/British_...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/British_Museum_Great_Court%2C_London%2C_UK_-
_Diliff.jpg)

~~~
TheCoreh
I wonder what material are the walls and the handrails made of?

~~~
pentae
Limestone

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meddlepal
Meh the new Apple HQ reminds me of everything that is wrong with modern
architecture and planning. Isolated (suburban) and fake (random offices mixed
with meticulously landscaped "parks").

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nkkollaw
Ive both saved and is ruining Apple.

I'm eying a Surface because all the stuff Apple makes is now more about looks
(not design, mind you) than functionality, and I'm totally fed up with giving
a lot of money to someone who cares more about how the thing looks then if it
convenient for me.

Ive or whoever designs both hardware and software there has lost touch. Most
of the stuff they make puts huge compromises and sacrifices convenience to
improve looks.

~~~
Steko
Switching to a Surface because you want long term quality is kind of hilarious
tbh.

[https://www.reuters.com/article/us-microsoft-
surface/microso...](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-microsoft-
surface/microsoft-surface-devices-fail-on-reliability-consumer-reports-
idUSKBN1AQ1EP)

~~~
nkkollaw
> Switching to a Surface because you want long term quality is kind of
> hilarious tbh.

Perhaps, but I never said that. Where did you get that from?

~~~
lh7777
Quality is actually a great illustration of your original point, though. Apple
recently went to great lengths to redesign the MacBook keyboard for no good
reason. As if compromising the key feel for many (most?) users just to shave a
millimeter or two off an already very thin device wasn't enough, it turns out
that the new keyboards have some serious reliability issues[1] and repairs
cost $700. I think John Gruber said it best: "I find these keyboards —
specifically, the tales of woe about keys getting stuck or ceasing to work
properly — a deeply worrisome sign about Apple’s priorities today."

While the Surface line has had its reliability issues (especially Surface 4),
rumor has it that the omission of USB-C from the latest Surfaces was part of a
deliberate effort to focus on refining the current design (and improving its
reliability) rather than adding new features and risking creating even more
issues. They also have a point that USB-C isn't quite ready for prime time and
I can't say I miss it having recently switched from a MacBook to a Surface
Pro.

I'm not saying that these companies should stop trying to innovate (far from
it). What I'm seeing is a big difference in priorities, and I'm not a fan of
Apple's of late -- too much focus on design ideals and not enough on things
that actually help me get my work done.

[1] [https://daringfireball.net/linked/2017/10/17/johnston-
macboo...](https://daringfireball.net/linked/2017/10/17/johnston-macbook-
keyboard)

~~~
nkkollaw
My MacBook Pro keyboard would get stuck and behave erratically, and when I
finally took the laptop to the Apple Store they also found out that the batter
was damaged. They're replacing the whole top case.

I keep my keyboard very clean, but it's so shallow that even dust can mess up
the keys. No idea what was wrong with the battery, they just said it didn't
pass their tests.

I'm selling the laptop while it's still under warranty.

One would think EUR1800 are enough to buy a laptop that you can actually use
because the keyboard works, but Apple don't agree.

------
binaryapparatus
Ultimate disappearing trick was performed by Apple in Mac Mini design.

------
dingo_bat
What an amazing place to work! As much as I hate the phones designed by Jony,
this building is a work of art and the people who will work here are extremely
fortunate.

~~~
dmitriid
The people there will not work in the amazing design-chair laden paradise. The
people there will work in by-the-numbers open-office meat factories (see the
corner of one in one of the pictures).

Many people (including Gruber) reported the massive internal outrage Apple
employees had when they learned about the actual working conditions.

------
kwhitefoot
What are the acoustics like in that 4000 seat cafe?

------
pentae
So Jony, if your goal is to get design out of the way, why the notch?

~~~
Gaelan
Compromise?

~~~
arketyp
Throwing out the selfie cam, now that would have been a compromise and a move
in the spirit of Jobs. Think different.

~~~
sbuk
Ad where would the sensors for FaceID go? Or is compromise taking away a new
feature too? Also, thinking in the spirit of Jobs is ritualising the process,
the very antithesis of what Jobs was about! Jobs’ advice to Cook was “Do what
is right” - like the hockey-puck mouse…

------
xiphias
I remember reading here on HN some time ago that some privileged teams could
ask to be outside the new Apple HQ building so that they don't have to be part
of the damaging open office culture.

~~~
simonh
Everyone keeps bangers by on about that. Tons of companies have open offices.
I’ve not worked in anything else for the last 25 years. It’s not like they’re
embarking on some unknown experiment never before imagined.

~~~
philliphaydon
I work in an open office. I’m less productive at work than I am at home. No
amount of noise cancelling headphones can counter someone tapping you on he
shoulder for help.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
I had that problem when I started working from home, I just made it clear when
the door is shut not to disturb me unless the house is burning down.

------
vira28
Now we know why we need to pay $1000 for iPhoneX.

~~~
skydv
i am on xiaomi and it rocks

~~~
0xbear
It’s also one third the speed of iPhone 8 or X. Apple’s chips are ridiculously
good, and worth the expense.

------
dmitriid
Note how no pictures in the article show the actual work spaces where people
will spend most of their time. Save for one picture showing the corner of a
by-the-numbers openspace with non-ergonomic chairs

------
shiado
They talk about the disappearing iPhone but what we all really want to hear
about is Jony Ive's opinion on the disappearing taxes.

~~~
sbuk
What disappearing taxes? They pay more tax than anyone else. If you are
referring to tax on money they made outside of the USA, then go fish. They pay
tax where they earn it. The USA is literally the only country that taxes it’s
business and citizens for income earned outside of its borders.

~~~
willtim
> They pay tax where they earn it.

No they don't. They employ offshore tax havens, shell companies and exploit
various loop holes in order to avoid doing so. It's lawful yes. But it's
immoral and unfair to smaller businesses who do pay their share. Buying an
iPhone in Europe means less money for infrastructure, schools, hospitals and
universities. The iPhone itself piggybacks on decades of tax funded research
and development, yet Apple do not contribute back.

Apple are of course one of many corporations that employ these practices, but
they are the largest and often market themselves as being ethical.

~~~
sbuk
[https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2017/11/the-facts-about-
apple...](https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2017/11/the-facts-about-apple-tax-
payments/)

~~~
willtim
Not surprisingly, most information on this is outside apple.com:

[http://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/06/apple-
secretly-m...](http://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/06/apple-secretly-
moved-jersey-ireland-tax-row-paradise-papers)

