
Building a PC, Part IX: Downsizing - zdw
https://blog.codinghorror.com/building-a-pc-part-ix-downsizing/
======
justin66
The most interesting blog I've read recently about building a new system was
(the guy who wrote the Doom and Wolfenstein black books) Fabien Sanglard's:

[http://fabiensanglard.net/the_beautiful_machine/index.html](http://fabiensanglard.net/the_beautiful_machine/index.html)

He built a neat looking, entirely passively-cooled machine.

Discussed here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22501462](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22501462)

~~~
jotm
That is a beautiful machine, indeed

------
whywhywhywhy
Got into PC building about 2 years ago, when I realized Apple's only real plan
for the pro desktop market was the iMac Pro [0] and were never going to make
up with Nvidia.

Got a shockingly powerful machine for the price it cost me, still less than if
I'd got an iMac Pro and dual GPUs for Octane Render and 2TB SSD.

What I'm really itching for is a high quality case, there seems to be a ton of
premium options for SFF builds but close to zero in ATX or mATX my preferred
factor[1]. I'm currently running in a Fractal Define Mini-C which does look ok
but still a bit plasticy if I'm going to have a large box in my house I'd
honestly by happy paying upwards of $500+ for a premium case if I liked the
look of it and it was all quality and looked sophisticated.

Probably sounds crazy saying that to most PC builders but at the sort of size
a PC is at it's almost a piece of furniture so I'd like it to look good.

[0]: It was clear the Mac Pro was dead at that point and todays Mac Pro was
only a response to the markets response to the iMac Pro. [1]: Only one I can
name is the Cerberus
[https://www.sliger.com/products/cases/cerberus_x/](https://www.sliger.com/products/cases/cerberus_x/)
which looks great but has niche build requirements.

~~~
grovellogic
If you are looking high end cases they are out there, just hidden.

Such as,

Dune Pro: [https://www.dunecase.com/](https://www.dunecase.com/) InWin lines:
[https://www.in-win.com/en/gaming-chassis/z-tower/](https://www.in-
win.com/en/gaming-chassis/z-tower/) Lian Li, Cases that are desks, and other
high end designs: [http://www.lian-li.com/](http://www.lian-li.com/)

If you have money, you will find people looking to sell you high end cases.

I personally use Fractal Design cases, they look good, made of thick steel,
and are cheap enough I can replace them more often without feeling bad.

~~~
GaryNumanVevo
+1 for Lian Li. They're an excellent case for building in. Good fan mounts,
water cooling mounts, thick steel, good layout for PSU / HDD placement.

~~~
spartas
I have several Lian Li cases as well. Most (if not all?) of their cases are
aluminum.

~~~
GaryNumanVevo
I’ve got a Liam Li PC-011 and it’s steel. I had to drill holes for my custom
reservoir, that one at least is steal

------
arcticbull
This was a great write-up, and a solid reference. I've been meaning to build
an SFF max-powered PC for a while, just as a fun pet project.

> That said, if you spend all day encoding videos, or compiling big projects
> in source code, the more cores but less overall speed tradeoff might be the
> correct one. And AMD is a lot closer on IPC now than they were 2 years ago,
> as well.

These days the IPC gap has been basically closed [1], which is what the write-
up says, but really worth calling out. This hasn't happened since the Athlon
64 days. On mobile, AMD's IPC absolutely savages Intel with the 4000-series.

[1] [https://hothardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-9-3900x-vs-
core-i9...](https://hothardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-9-3900x-vs-
core-i9-9900k-ipc-shootout?page=3)

~~~
rbanffy
Not only more cores, but up to 16M of L3 per core (on the EPYC 7F52), and a
whole lot of memory bandwidth to make cache misses more bearable.

A lot of builders try to strike a balance between price and performance, but
if you are OK with spending a lot of money on one box, you can have a LOT of
power.

That's waaay more compute power than I'd be able to use (which is why the last
time I built my own machine - not including adding memory/storage to a pre-
built one - was in the late 90's). My main personal laptop is an aging Core i3
that was chosen because I needed a laptop and this one was the one that could
be delivered in two days) and my server (from where I run VMs for testing) is
a low-end Lenovo server that was being sold at an unreasonably low price at
the time.

> On mobile, AMD's IPC absolutely savages Intel with the 4000-series.

I haven't found many machines built on those. It's a shame.

~~~
arcticbull
> I haven't found many machines built on those. It's a shame.

The 4900HS just came out, so I assume we'll be seeing more of them! (LTT:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYqG31V4qtA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYqG31V4qtA))

------
beervirus
I care a lot more about making the computer quiet than I do about making it
small. Those are competing objectives.

I'm currently using a fairly large case from Fractal that has a bunch of big,
slow-spinning fans as its only moving parts. I'm sitting right next to it and
can't hear it at all. (When I'm playing a game, I can hear the GPU fans.) My
life would not be improved at all if it took up less space.

~~~
yboris
My preference is for a quiet space too. I moved my machine into the nearby
laundry room and only have an HDMI & USB cable coming into the room. I'm lucky
my house orientation allows for this. Next house I buy I'll try to replicate
the 100% silence I now enjoy.

------
vosper
Anyone interested in small form-factor (SFF) builds should check out Optimum
Tech on YouTube. He specialises in SFF builds and reviews, the style is
chilled out, and the videos are nicely produced.

No affiliation, just a fan of the channel:

PC Builds -
[https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLv8HwYhBwOOoYxKyLMJTX...](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLv8HwYhBwOOoYxKyLMJTXBDlQxn0c3pS_)

Cases -
[https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLv8HwYhBwOOpUFPiBs6QG...](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLv8HwYhBwOOpUFPiBs6QG1SlnIzM_oObD)

~~~
absorber
I long for the day I can build a Mini-ITX laptop. I think it's doable
considering you don't go for a dedicated GPU, but alas... the documentation on
that is not abundant and I do not have the necessary CAD knowledge yet.

------
geocrasher
I've got a very modest Ryzen 5 1400 build with 24GB memory and some
inexpensive GPU's to support 4 monitors. Nothing expensive. I'm not a dev so I
don't need to compile or anything, although I do wish my GPUs were better, but
only when I need to encode video.

The biggest takeaway is that I have a case that is 15 years old or so. It
probably came with a P4 in it back in the day. For my use, it is good enough.
It's not pretty. But it doesn't need to be. It just holds parts in place,
which it does just fine.

With my next build, which I hope to do from scratch (everything's been an
upgrade for the longest time) I hope to spend a grand on a mild gaming level
machine, and another few hundred for a single giant 4k monitor rather than the
4 monitors I currently have. _Then_ I'll buy a new case.

~~~
marcosdumay
There has either been some recent generalized loss of quality, or a move of
high quality players into some other channels for PC cases.

I switched mine in 2011, because they were too beaten already, and today they
are the component that give me second largest number of problems, just after
power supply unities.

~~~
geocrasher
I'm curious- what problems does your case give you? For me, once the computer
is built, I rarely touch the case. My USB ports are on the desktop with a 7
port powered hub, and other than dusting the computer whenever I think it
needs it, I don't touch it. So I can't relate, hence my question.

~~~
marcosdumay
The last one I switched (just last year) had a broken power button that was
embedded inside the case that I couldn't replace it without breaking anything.

I've had a few fancy ones with design failures that weren't showstoppers on a
new case, but once the plastic parts whore-off they wouldn't hold well (ok,
they were still usable). I had a case that developed some conductive points on
the main board support, and one that after a bit of dust accumulated there
wasn't enough airflow anymore, and one with an embedded fun that broke in
months. All of those were mid-range models, from different manufacturers that
people were recommending on the internet.

Funny thing is that last time I brought one, I got for the cheapest no-name
thing available (it breaks anyway...). It's a plain standard case, with a
simple robust assembly, standard ventilation, normal buttons, and a old-way
standard main board support. I have seen no issues at all.

------
PStamatiou
I went through the same phase last year and built a small, watercooled mini-
ITX 9900K + RTX 2080 Ti PC with the Louqe Ghost S1 case:

(JPG) [https://turbo.paulstamatiou.com/uploads/2019/05/copyright-
pa...](https://turbo.paulstamatiou.com/uploads/2019/05/copyright-
paulstamatiou_com-DSC2824-2000.jpg)

[https://paulstamatiou.com/stuff-i-
use/#computer](https://paulstamatiou.com/stuff-i-use/#computer)

------
ilaksh
My only computer right now is a DeskMini A300W (6 inches X 6 inches X 3
inches, 1.92 L) with an AMD Ryzen 5 2400G. It is fine for older/simple games
like GTA 5 and Rocket League and also connects to my 4K TV with a long HDMI
cable and works for watching movies and stuff.

For work I normally am just in an SSH session or maybe in Visual Studio Code
for my Ocaml experiment.

Here is my "advanced cooling system"
[https://i.redd.it/d3ssbzfl1ri31.jpg](https://i.redd.it/d3ssbzfl1ri31.jpg)

~~~
tibbydudeza
Regarding your cooling solution
[https://www.reddit.com/r/shittybattlestations/](https://www.reddit.com/r/shittybattlestations/)

------
simonlc
I also did this years ago, it was my last upgrade and I regret not getting
normal sized boards. I only have space for one pci-e card, so I can either
choose to have a video card, or anything else I need (such as a capture card).
Now I would also like the possibility to run two capture cards, but I can't
even do that. These small form factor pc's aren't event that much smaller than
an mATX build, so I don't really see the point anymore. If a manufacturer
would start making smaller PSU's GPUs and more integrated cooling, then maybe.
I don't think you should sacrifice so much versatility a PC has just for a
little extra floor space.

------
fanatic2pope
I understand making small machines is fun, and I did it once myself. I
regretted it every day I used that machine, though and have gone back to
"normal" sized cases.

~~~
fokinsean
Can you elaborate? I'm actually looking into building my first PC and the
small form factor of this case looks really appealing.

Here's some builds that use it:
[https://pcpartpicker.com/builds/by_part/wBw7YJ](https://pcpartpicker.com/builds/by_part/wBw7YJ)

~~~
jankotek
It is much easier to find spare parts. PC can last 10 years, and it may be
difficult to find some obscure motherboard or power supply.

Airflow is bad in small cases. And it is harder to build it for newbie
correctly.

Bigger cases are usually quieter (fans are bigger and spin less).

I would recommend MicroATX format and case. Still fairly small but without any
compromises.

------
GuB-42
Not a big fan of the new trends in PC cases. The tend to lack extensiblity.
Downsizing is part of it.

One think I like about homebuilt desktop PCs is not just raw power, but also
the large amount of options regarding ports, drives and extension cards. In
laptops there is potability to consider, not so much with desktops.

For example, my tower has 3 5.25" front facing bays used. One for DVD, one HDD
rack, and a multi-card reader with USB3 ports. Plus front panel jack
connectors for headphone and microphones, and extra USB. Inside is a 3.5"
mechanical hard drive in addition to the SSD, and an extra USB3 controller
(for the Oculus Rift, which is quite finicky). It doesn't fit in a downsized
case, and even finding a case with more than 2 front-facing 5.25" drives is
hard enough these days.

Do I use them all every day? Obviously not, I'm not sure I even opened the
optical drive this year, and it is not a feature I want on my laptop. But if I
need to read or burn a CD or DVD, I know I have a computer that is ready to do
that.

For me, small form factor PC still have a place in the living room. To watch
movies, surf the web, play games, etc... Kind of like a modern game console,
but more open. But for my desktop, I like to have everything at hand, even if
it costs a bit in terms of clean look and makes cable management tricky.

~~~
teekay
Same here.

I recently build a Ryzen 3950X PC in Fractal Define 7. The case is huge and
mostly empty space. No problem though - the case sits below my 2-meter wide
standing desk, so it's not competing with anything.

I've got a Blu-ray burner, some PCI-e sound cards that I swap from time to
time, and a large potential for future upgrades / add-ins.

That said, it is spectacular what amount of power you can fit in these small
boxes these days - if you need to.

------
chrbr
Wish I had this around to read for inspiration a few months ago. I recently
upgraded my PC, and for the first time in 20 years of owning desktop PCs,
bought a prebuilt one specifically because of size and aesthetic concerns.

I wanted a top-of-the-line gaming rig that ran quietly and took up a minimal
amount of desktop space for my home office/"battlestation" [1]. Maybe I gave
up too quickly, and maybe I've gotten too old for this shit, but I couldn't
find anything that fit the bill without spending a lot of time on custom
watercooling setups. I wonder how loud Atwood's rig is here.

I went with a Corsair One i165 [2] and love it so far - runs whisper-quiet no
matter what I'm doing, and is small enough to easily fit on the desk. We'll
see in a couple of years if I'm kicking myself over lack of upgradeability,
but I'd hope its specs last me a long time.

Side note: it's kinda hard to find nice-but-not-gaudy components these days, I
feel. Not a big fan of the RGB craze as I get older (although 16-year-old-me
would have loved it).

[1]
[https://www.reddit.com/r/battlestations/comments/f4fk3h/dual...](https://www.reddit.com/r/battlestations/comments/f4fk3h/dualsystem_loft_art_battlestation/)

[2]
[https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Systems/CO...](https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Systems/CORSAIR-
ONE/CORSAIR-ONE-GAMING-PC/p/CS-9020005-NA)

~~~
jmt_
Typically one of the main arguments against pre-built machines are that you
can build a similarly specced machine for less. But the time and effort it
takes to do so may not be practical for every situation, so really you're
paying more to have something up and running much faster and (ideally) without
the headaches of troubleshooting hardware. Plus, I agree that a lot of the
components one would buy to build a similar setup are covered in XTREME GAMER
RGB aesthetics and is really unpleasant to me. It can be difficult to find a
high performance laptop that doesn't look like this, especially if you need a
nice GPU in it. I'm saying all of this because I don't think some hardcore
build-a-PC people truly understand the business/general value of (good, not
cheap) pre-built machines. When one needs a performant machine asap to work
when, say, they're existing machine suddenly dies, they do not have the time
to assemble a PC usually.

Why do you think that Corsair will be difficult to upgrade? Genuinely curious,
maybe the size of the case will impose limitations? Looks like there's only
two RAM slots (ITX board?) so that might also be an upgrade issue?

~~~
psyho
Corsair One comes with a custom AIO cooler for its GPU. For me, the most often
upgraded component in a gaming PC is the GPU, since you need a new one every
two generations in order to keep up with the latest games. If you are the type
of person that likes to play games on high/ultra settings, you will probably
regret not being able to upgrade the GPU in your otherwise excellent computer.

------
zajio1am
My pet peeve with computer form factors is depth. 40-50 cm depth was OK in
times of CRT monitors, but with LCDs and disappearance of DVD drives, there is
no reason to have significant depth.

Even with mATX SFFs it is still rare to have depth below 30 cm. mATX makes
lower bound to about 26 cm, full-length GPUs are up to 32 cm, but there are
still powerful GPUs with reasonable length.

~~~
mark-r
I have all my TV-related equipment on a stereo rack. That includes a PC for
home theater use. The PC doesn't fit, I had to add boards to both sides of the
rack that extend out two inches so there'd be a place for the PC feet to rest.

If I ever end up replacing that PC it will definitely be one with a smaller
depth, even if it takes some work to find one.

------
psyho
I get the appeal of building in an SFF case, but there's a catch: with micro-
ATX or full ATX case, you're more likely to put it away somewhere like under
the desk, since the power button and ports will be easily accessible from the
top. However, with a small case, you will have to keep it on your desk, adding
to the clutter.

I built a computer recently and went in the opposite direction. Since the
major differentiator of desktop vs laptop is power, I put as much power into
my computer as I possibly could :) I also built a custom loop in it, because
it looks cool, keeps the PC quiet at all times and I always wanted to do that.

Here's the PC if anyone is interested:
[https://pcpartpicker.com/b/Mkcqqs](https://pcpartpicker.com/b/Mkcqqs)

~~~
maddyboo
-

------
bovermyer
I'm glad he wrote about this. I haven't paid much attention to building PCs in
the last decade.

With that said, I'm sticking with my full tower format. It's bigger and
heavier by far, but it's easy to do maintenance on, and the cats can climb and
jump on it without doing any damage.

------
ken
I'm not a thermodynamics engineer, but one thing that strikes me as odd about
all of these is that most of the fans are sitting parallel to the motherboard,
and sandwiched between the board and the wall (which only has small holes).

Whereas the Apple way, since the PowerMac G5, has been to mount the fans
perpendicular to the motherboard and daughterboards, and push air across them.
That seems like it would be much more efficient, better for both cooling and
noise.

Is there a reason these PC systems mount the fans that way? Is it not actually
as inefficient as it seems? Is this a case of modular parts each needing their
own built-in cooling, and not being able to look at the bigger picture?

~~~
GaryNumanVevo
I'm guessing the smaller side of the heatsink would require a smaller higher
RPM fan.

Similar to what you'd see in a 1U server chassis, however they're
substantially louder.

------
DavidVoid
I've always liked the look of small PCs but I feel like they probably wouldn't
be great if you also want a quiet PC. Personally I would like to mount my
computer in a server rack that's not in the same room as the rest of the setup
(so just route the monitor cables, a USB hub, and an ON/OFF button through the
wall). That way you can use the computer without having to hear it.

If you want some inspiration for sff PCs then I can recommend the subreddit
/r/sffpc [1].

[1] [https://old.reddit.com/r/sffpc/](https://old.reddit.com/r/sffpc/)

------
willis936
I like the comparison of compute power volume density to consoles. I think it
shows up as a win when you also consider that consoles turn into wind turbines
under high load. You simply cannot quietly pull away hundreds of watts from a
small area without big fans. 140 mm is just right for this amount of heat.
With a clever layout, you don’t need a case much larger than you longest
dimensions (set by mobo and GPU, mostly). It’s a fun challenge.

------
Infinitesimus
Build logs are less frequent now but I'm glad he wrote about this!

I recently rebuilt my rid (ncase M1) with a Ryzen chip and now want an excuse
to use all that power. I think one of the biggest case size constraints are
how massive high end GPUs are and whoever cracked 2080Ti type performance in a
small single-fan chip will do wonders for the SFF community and portable
computing in general

~~~
bradstewart
Man I'd forgotten how much time I used to spend scrolling through build logs
10-15 years ago. I loved watching the things people would come up with,
particularly in the case modding world.

------
PeterStuer
But ... why? Unless you are going to tug it around a lot, what is the big deal
with miniaturizing? There are lots of ways to "hide" a PC or make it blend in
with office furniture. Just reducing the size of the box seems a bit of a
pointless fad unless you are fine with laptop like performance, in which case
...

~~~
Kalq
Kind of strange to refer to "laptop like performance" considering the parts
he's using.

And why not? Aesthetics are very important for a lot of people. Unless you're
doing some sort of watercooling or need multiple GPUs or other expansion cards
or need to put it a bunch of HDDs there's no reason you can't go for a smaller
form factor. Why should a mid or full-sized ATX case be the standard?

~~~
PeterStuer
The problem is that high performance builds produce a lot of heat, and those
tiny cases do not have enough space to let that be easily extracted with low
RPM high diameter fans, so you are going to end up with a pretty box that is
going to be pretty noisy, unless you stick to lower power consuming and thus
lower heat producing laptop like parts.

------
mdorazio
Just finished building my new PC last week after running the old one into the
ground over 6 years. In the 7 liter sized Dr. Zaber Sentry 2.0 case (basically
the size and form factor of a gaming console) I easily fit a Ryzen 3700x and
RTX 2070 with zero cooling issues and fans I can barely hear. Here's my
takeaway:

\- If you want a truly SFF PC (no, 20 liters is not small), you're going to
have spend extra money and extra time on finding components that will fit. ITX
options are very limited, SFX is somewhat pricey, and GPU form factors often
don't adhere to the NVIDIA/AMD spec, so clearance-compatible cards are
limited.

That said, I love the new form factor - it's got everything I need in a tiny
package that I can put anywhere and is easily portable for cleaning or when I
need to do some on-site video rendering and laptops just don't cut it.

~~~
ChuckNorris89
What cpu cooler are you running in the Setry case?

------
poushkar
Funny, coincidentally I've been researching this topic of SFF builds in the
past few days. Found this amazing YT channel:
[https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRYOj4DmyxhBVrdvbsUwmAA](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRYOj4DmyxhBVrdvbsUwmAA)

But the problem with it, as well as /r/sffpc is that their top priority is a
gaming PC, and they optimize for putting in a latest, most performing GPU.

I as a developer, don't need a discrete GPU for nothing more that to connect
several (2, actually) screens to the pc.

That said, I haven't found a small case that doesn't optimize for "normal-
size" GPUs (too big for non-gamers) and doesn't cost a fortune, yet.

~~~
mattbillenstein
I've used a high-end gigabyte brix at work running ubuntu - this is a laptop-
class cpu, but with a fast ssd and 16GB of RAM, perfectly fine for development
work -- and they're tiny and silent.

------
theandrewbailey
I had a microATX case for about 5 years, and it wasn't great. I can't imagine
building or using anything even smaller. I had to practically disassemble the
whole thing if, for example, a fan started rattling, a SATA cable was loose,
or I needed to reset the BIOS[0]. I got a much larger sound dampening case
after that, and it's amazing. It's easy to work in and much quieter, and I
don't mind the size because there's lots of room under the desk.

[0] I wasn't using a board that was high end (or recent) enough to have a back
panel button for this.

------
alecmg
Those who kinda like downsizing, but don't want to be limited to ITX and SFF
parts

Heres Raijintek Thetis [0]. Takes full size ATX motherboards, GPUs, CPU
coolers and power supplies. Dimensions 210×360×366 mm (27.7L), smaller than
most mATX cases and rivaling some ITX.

I keep looking at it, trying to find an excuse to build a new system, but
waiting for next gen Ryzen.

[0]
[https://www.raijintek.com/en/products_detail.php?ProductID=5...](https://www.raijintek.com/en/products_detail.php?ProductID=53)

~~~
cercatrova
Airflow doesn't look too great on it though?

------
bsharitt
I used to have a big fascination with small form factor and power efficient
PCs. Other than having Mac mini for a while, I didn't actually implement to
much on homebuilt PC side, mostly due to cost. I've had a fairly small mATX
case and used lower watt CPUs. For projects like HTPC, the tradeoffs made
sense, but I don't have one of those any more and for my desktop, I'm back to
a full size case and full powered components and large heat sink to go with
it.

------
mark-r
The last two PCs I built were smaller units, based on some older Coding Horror
posts. The thing I've found is that even though the parts have gotten smaller,
the cables haven't - they're just as long and thick as they've always been,
which makes layout a lot harder. And the configuration is less convenient -
the power supply covers 3/4 of the motherboard, so you have to remove it to do
any useful work.

------
golergka
There's one thing I don't get: why would I optimize for size to begin with?

I live in a small studio apartment together with my gf, and I still am
completely happy with a giant ATX case that sits under my desk. And if I would
switch it for anything, it would be a bigger case, with more space to organize
everything, not a smaller one.

~~~
dfxm12
People aren't always putting computers on or around their desk. It took a
while to find a case that had the right fit in my old TV stand/entertainment
center. Size was part of it, but so was shape. Anything in the shape of a cube
or mini tower wouldn't fit. I needed a pizza box shape, but not one that was
too wide or too deep.

Luckily, both my HTPC and entertainment centers are both due for upgrades, so
at least now I can plan ahead.

------
numpad0
What I've been personally and voluntary communicating over and over for couple
weeks, is that the minimum volume achievable without exotic parts is _3.9L_
using "SGPC K39 ITX" case, which is one whole liter less than Intel Ghost
Canyon NUC that measures almost 5L.

(It'll be dense as a lead block, and loud and hot though)

~~~
ilaksh
Please see my comment below about my 1.92L computer.

~~~
numpad0
That’s not including PSU and a double height GPU, on top of being all exotic.

~~~
ilaksh
It does include the power and the integrated graphics is better than some
older GPUs.

~~~
numpad0
No it doesn’t. Yours is 1.92L without power, 2.24L with that 120W power brick.

And the difference against 3.9L is about as much as a GPU takes, so you’re
just saying an ITX build with no GPU is weaker but smaller by what you just
removed. A tautology.

------
JabavuAdams
While I'm used to a lifetime of blaring fans and the pale dim glow, I'm
getting more interested in building _quiet_ machines. Especially for things
like media centres or NAS. It sucks to have a computer blaring while you're
trying to watch a movie, or think in your living room.

------
epmaybe
I recently found out that my mini-ITX PC case (the EVGA Hadron) can actually
support a larger motherboard with minimal modifications. That means more PCI-e
slots, more RAM slots, more storage connectivity, and better I/O. It's making
me excited about eventually building in the same case!

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Hamuko
I kind of want a SFF as my next PC. For example the Enthoo Evolv Shift Air
looks stunning and I could actually put it on my desk unlike my huge ATX case.
I just don't know if it's worth paying more for less with the increased
difficulty in building and upgrading it.

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amelius
> I guess that's yet another sign that the PC is over

I sure hope this is not the case.

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dognotdog
Seems like quite a few people built PCs because Apple's desktops have been
atrophied, that definitely played a part for me, too :)

I've designed a water cooled mITX system with PCIe GPU that should've fitted
into a 2DIN car radio slot, which is doable with a deep enough slot, a PCIe
riser, and even a DC/DC power supply in the box. I never got around to
actually building that due to life getting in the way, but the components
ended up in a laser-cut acrylic cube crammed as small as can be. I have to say
the laser-cut acrylic case works quite well, and is well within reach of
anyone with a maker space close-by and basic CAD skills.

TL;DR: anecdote about SFF PC building.

~~~
ChuckNorris89
_> Seems like quite a few people built PCs because Apple's desktops have been
atrophied_

Some people maybe, but most people who build PCs were usually never part of
Apple's customer base to begin with.

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sylens
Have people switched back to using PCs for development, especially since
they're staying at home with the covid-19 lockdown? Or is it still mostly a
Mac market, despite having to fork over nearly three grand for an eight core
workstation?

~~~
azangru
> especially since they're staying at home with the covid-19 lockdown

Are you asking whether people have been buying a lot of PCs over the last
month or two? I don't have the stats, but I suspect the answer would be no.

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burnte
You would be wrong to a surprising degree. Stores have been limiting the
number of laptops, prebuilt desktops, and monitors people can buy at once, and
makers like Dell and Lenovo saw a huge spike in shipments, so much that they
have even raised prices. VARs are having a hard time keeping things in stock.

~~~
azangru
Interesting! I had no idea.

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madengr
I’m running the same PC since 2011, and doing done hefty EM simulations in it.
I did expand it to 32 GB RAM recently just cause I was running out, and 32 is
still insufficient.

I’m holding out until the new i9-10 are out. Unfortunately those are still
stuck with max 64 GB RAM.

~~~
mastax
I'm assuming that EM simulations are massively parallel. Depending on your
budget you should consider a threadripper or the new Intel HEDT for a budget
option.

~~~
mastax
There's also regular ryzen with up to 16 cores and 128GB of RAM.

~~~
madengr
See my other reply. Ryzen is 30% slower due to Intel compiler optimizations,
and I need higher clock speed rather than cores. The new i9 with 5.1 GHz boost
should work best.

