
Instagram influencer engagement hovers near all-time lows - elorant
https://www.mobilemarketer.com/news/instagram-influencer-engagement-hovers-near-all-time-lows-study-says/558331/
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AznHisoka
As with any data study, it always helps to read the fine print. This is how
they measure engagement rate: "The firm measures engagement with a like
follower ratio or the average number of likes on each Instagram post compared
to the number of followers."

Thus engagement rate could be decreasing, but that doesn't say anything about
the _total average engagement_ of Instagram posts, which might be increasing.
Possible reasons engagement rate is decreasing (but overall engagement
rising):

1) The people who followed your brand in the early stages are your most
enthusiastic fans and most likely to engage with your posts. Followers that
hop on the bandwagon are less likely to engage, thus lowering your engagement
rate. In effect, over time, your follower count will increase, but new
followers will increase the denominator (number of followers) but won't
increase the numerator (engagement).

2) Perhaps, there's been a rise in automated followers. Thus, your follower
count has been increasing but most of it are bots, thus your engagement rate
is decreasing.

3) Perhaps Instagram might be pushing more people to follow brands they don't
want to engage with. Whether it's through algorithmic recommendations, or more
ads that tell you to follow a brand.

~~~
asdff
What drives people to like a commercial instagram post in the first place?

If it's my cousin with a fish, of course I'll like the photo. That's me
saying, "I saw that fish, good work, keep it up," and my cousin takes my like
the same way.

If it's a big account, what's the point of being like #14532143, or even
upvoting top page reddit/hn posts for that matter? Is it just cathartic or
something? I don't get the point.

~~~
zizee
It's possibly the same reason people wear clothing with a large brand-name
printed across the back/front. People often associate brands with their
"tribe", and liking posts could be another way to signal that they are part of
the in-group.

Disclaimer: I possibly don't know what I am talking about as I don't really
know Instagram mechanics at all, but I am guessing they are similar to
Facebook's.

~~~
meowface
Does Instagram broadcast a notification to your friends / followers when you
like something? I don't use it, but I think it'd need something like that for
a signaling theory to make sense.

~~~
KeepFlying
There is no broadcast, but when you are scrolling your feed you will see a
selection of friends who have liked each post.

Also if you view the activity feed (in a different corner of the app) you can
see what your friends have been up to. This is where you will see more
explicitly "Sally, Sue, John and Dave liked a post by Mr. Famous" (and similar
activity).

~~~
josteink
> There is no broadcast,

Wrong.

In your notifications screen (who liked your stuff), you can change pane and
instead see what your friends has liked.

Most people don’t know it, but yes, it means you can “spy” on your spouse or
vica-verce.

It’s the sort of creepy most people wanted to avoid when they left Facebook,
and unknown to them, Instagram still has it.

~~~
helloindia
The "likes/comment" notification is still chronological. And if you follow
around more than 300 accounts, then it's quite difficult to spy. But if you
follow only selected few people(say <50), then yes, it is much easier to spy.

~~~
josteink
I’m getting downvoted and I’m not sure why. In case anyone misunderstood my
comment, I didn’t encourage people to spy.

My comment was merely meant as a correction to an incorrect claim and making
people aware that they can be spied upon, also on Instagram.

------
davidmurdoch
My wife has about 10k followers and over the past month or so total engagement
(number of likes and follows) has dropped considerably, and most of the time
her photos don't show up in any hashtags. Her "impressioned" engagement rate
(percentage of people that saw the post that then liked or commented) hasn't
really changed noticeably.

Instagram just shows her photos to fewer people (and often never shows them to
anyone but existing followers - no considerable Explore or Hashtag views).

I've clicked around many "influencers" photos recently and followed their
hashtags and often their photos don't show there. Fun anecdote: the less
clothes the person (man or woman) is wearing the less likely the photo is to
appear in the hashtag feed.

My conspiracy theory: Instagram is favoring personal relationship and smaller
accounts, or maybe trying to encourage small accounts to become "addicted to
engagement" in order to pull more wannabe influencers into the platform.

None of my findings are by any means thoroughly researched or done in a
scientific manner. Just casual and curious browsing.

I'm curious if anyone else has seen any odd hashtag behavior lately. It's
possible Instagram just tailors my version of a hashtag's "Recent" feed to me.

~~~
macspoofing
I don't think you need any conspiracy theory to explain anything. The
'influencer market is becoming saturated. With low barriers of entry, you have
millions of people joining and trying to squeeze out every penny of value.

This is the end result of 'perfect competition' or 'long tail' \- depending on
what your dance is.

~~~
Darkphibre
How would that explain not showing up in search results for keywords in the
post?

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ForrestN
I operate a larger instagram account (125k followers), and while I would
rather die than apply the word "influencer" to it, I can confirm that it's
very unlikely that this has to do with the content of the feeds. We have
extremely regular content: 2 posts per day of artworks currently on view
around the world. Sometimes we add thousands of followers a week, and our
posts rack up tons of likes. Sometimes it takes weeks to add a thousand
followers. There's no change in the number of people mentioning us, no outside
source for the influxes. It really feels like we hit some threshold in the
algorithm and then everything changes for a while. We've been pinned at 125k
for a few weeks now after a period of fast growth. Nothing about our content
or our natural audience has changed.

~~~
seanwalker08
I've got a smaller account(33k) and have noticed similar issues lately. It
makes no sense as to why visibility fluctuates when my behavior hasn't
changed. I have a feeling it's Instagram trying to push us to use their ad
system.

~~~
ForrestN
This is my fear too. Instagram’s addictive neuroengineering has crowded out
attention to our website, so it’s a platform where we need to be in order to
reach our constituency. But we are a tiny non-profit and can’t afford to pay
to play.

------
Simulacra
Do influencers really...influence? It seems like a lot of money is thrown at
some of these folks but it's not clear that is directly leading to sales.

~~~
css
Surprisingly, people follow attractive people because they want to see photos
of attractive people and not because they wonder what tea they drink

~~~
appleiigs
I watch the Super Bowl for the (american) football, but the TV commercials are
still effective. Much of advertising is just reminder that the product exists.
Effective not because I buy what Tom Brady buys. "Influencers" are just
"content providers" to get the views.

~~~
richk449
> Effective not because I buy what Tom Brady buys

Meaning ceramic underwear?

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tomc1985
Good. Anything to destroy the navel-gazing ego-stroking that has come to
characterize online life

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buboard
tangentially i can't stomach that word, "Influencer"

~~~
izzydata
I feel that it is more than just the terminology. It is also their ideology.
It doesn't matter what they are called it will still elicit a negative
reaction from me.

~~~
bseidensticker
I am interested in this phenomenon of hating influencers. Do you feel the same
way about this same phenomenon with athletes / other celebrities? Wheaties has
been doing influencer marketing since 1934 [1]. Does the fact that pretty much
every successful athlete makes most of their money from influencer marketing
illicit a negative reaction from you as well? If so, then you can stop
reading.

If not, do you mind explaining why it's different? Also, what do you mean by
"their ideology"?

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_athletes_on_Wheaties_b...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_athletes_on_Wheaties_boxes)

~~~
buboard
guys, the word is elicit

To your point, i think there is no comparison. Famous athletes/artists have
earned the public's trust due to being very talented and working hard. I don't
think most social media promoters have earned the same kind of recognition and
thus trust, especially when it is obvious from the get-go that they are going
after monetization ASAP, they are not in it for the fun of it. It's not
equally inspiring

~~~
seventhtiger
It's not accurate to say influencers don't work very hard. Some of them are
also genuinely talented. It's just that they're talented at and work hard at
something people here don't value: popularity. The illusion that popularity is
just a byproduct of important work matters to the credibility of being famous.
Influencers just throw that away.

When I asked my sister why she just called a girl at her school "famous" she
said because she has 100k+ followers. So she is famous for being famous.

~~~
buboard
> It's just that they're talented at and work hard at something people here
> don't value: popularity.

Rightly so. It is easy to gain popularity by appealing to people's lower
insticts or by being ridiculous. Maybe the top 10 "famous for being famous"
persons really did put extraordinary effort , but i think it's much less true
for everyone else, otherwise they would be famous for something else. And even
if it is true, it's not the kind of work that ppl value a lot. It's one thing
to be famous as a Kardashian, another to be famous as Maria Callas or Madonna

~~~
seventhtiger
As devil's advocate, think of how many women have sex tapes out there, and
think of how many of them built a billion dollar empire on it. What is being
one more pop star in comparison?

There are types of great effort which produce zero value and are only judged
subjectively. I really respect the guy putting Doom on his microwave, but to
most people that is a completely pointless exercise. I suspect popularity is
like that. I laugh at the girls taking 400 selfies standing in front of a
bridge, to post just one on Instagram, but I can't deny there is some effort
and skill going on there.

------
keyle
I've ran this joke before but it's true...

Watch TV, get 5 ads every 5 minutes.

Watch Instagram, get 1 ad every 15 seconds...

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miguelmota
If you want to know how the influencer culture works and how they portray a
photoshopped lifestyle, watch the Fyre Festival documentary.

~~~
klingonopera
There are quite a number of documentaries made by YT'ers, too, IMHO, the one
with the most "lulz" is definitely this one by the "Internet Historian":

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBPg5ftCMv8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBPg5ftCMv8)

~~~
miguelmota
That was gold, thanks for sharing

~~~
klingonopera
Sorry for stalking, but so was your very first submission! It's probably
standard reading here on YCombinator, but it was my first of Paul Graham's
essay on "Why Nerds are Unpopular", and it just speaks to me on so many
levels...

Considering the main topic is about influencers, and that their "currency" is
popularity, it's not even that off-topic to repost it here:
[http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html)

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alephnan
Personal plug, I'm exploring a "microinfluencer" (1k-1000k followers)
management platform, initially focused on the fashion industry in NYC. This
article is somewhat encouraging, actually.

Per HN's policy of commenting substantively, I will say these influencer deals
are amateurish and lacking paperwork.

Currently an engineer at Big4, and exploring the seed/angel investment
landscape. I'd love to get in touch to get advice and pick your brain on how
to do further market research.

~~~
catacombs
> I'm exploring a "microinfluencer" (1k-1000k followers) management platform,
> initially focused on the fashion industry in NYC.

So a management company that recruits hopeful influencers and skims the top of
their take-home pay? No, thanks.

I'm sure plenty will be fine on their own.

~~~
alephnan
Yes, it would skin the top off their take-home Venmo payments that is
currently lacking in legal paperwork.

In addition, they wouldn’t have to orchestrate these deals over direct message
and email exchanges.

This criticism is akin to saying Stripe or Visa or any broker platform not
adding value. It’s a fallacy of smaller pie slice in a larger pie. These are
economic activities not being pursued because of barriers to entry for brands,
and the overhead of orchestrating many smaller influencers versus 1 legitimate
big contract with a more established influencer.

And yes, they would get 30% less, because they have to pay taxes now.

~~~
seattle_spring
Exactly what legal paperwork does some tool who does stupid yoga poses with a
free t-shirt need?

~~~
alephnan
I lived in Seattle for half my life, and I see where this question stems from.

It’s unbelievable to people in the Northwest that people in NYC, London, and
other fashion hubs spend $1K on an article of clothing. This is the norm, not
the exception here. Brands like Supreme barely want to sell their $600 t-shirt
to paying customers, much less give them away.

Point being, it’s a strawman to compare the target demographic of free tech
swag to up-and-coming models getting free designer clothing. Still, it seems
the fashion industry is adverse to paperwork and the formality. They’d love it
if they didn’t have to deal with paperwork, and can get a tax incentive to
give out more (which can potentially be abused, but that’s a separate
discussion).

~~~
seattle_spring
> it’s a strawman to compare the target demographic of free tech swag to up-
> and-coming models getting free designer clothing

Au contraire! I was actually specifically referring to some jokingly
overpriced Balenciaga or Supreme shirt, almost certainly purchased by someone
who is somehow shocked (shocked!) that they can't afford rent.

EDIT: Ah I see the confusion. When I said "free t-shirt," I meant, "t-shirt
given to the influencer to promote for free," not "free tech t-shirt usually
worn to a gym."

~~~
alephnan
Sure. But the Balenciaga or Supreme shirt is a good point. This in some ways
supports the hypothesis that people buy brands based on social influence.
Value on the West Coast tend to coincide with utility, but this isn't the case
with these fashion brands. Balenciaga revenue broke over a billion in revenue,
and Supreme has been rumored to be a unicorn.

------
sschueller
Well Instagram let the boat sale away.

Where was the ability to directly link a product you are promoting in your
post? How many times have you seen people say, link is in my profile?

They could be facilitating the sale of promoted products directly and offer
brands and individuals services to make it easy to go from click to sale.
Additionally make sure people stay on the correct side of the law and
disclosing that they are being paid. Maybe even require such payments to go
via Instagram.

~~~
the_watcher
This exists. Product tagging is available to influencers, and Shopping rolled
out earlier this year (and you can pay via IG).

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the_watcher
Key: > The engagement rate for Instagram influencers with at least 10,000
followers is steady at about 3.6% worldwide. Influencers with 5,000 to 10,000
followers have an engagement rate of 6.3% and those with a following of 1,000
to 5,000 have the highest rate at 8.8%, per InfluencerDB.

This makes it pretty obvious that the growth of influencers is concentrated in
the long tail, where engagement is lower and sponsored posts less valuable.

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dmix
> The engagement rate for sponsored posts fell to 2.4% in Q1 2019 from 4%
> three years earlier, while the rate for non-sponsored posts slid to 1.9%
> from 4.5% for the comparable periods.

So their sponsored posts get _more_ engagement than non-sponsored posts? Does
that mean people basically follow them for their product placements?

~~~
unreal37
More like the sponsored posts are better, more engaging content.

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Hoasi
Does this surprise anyone? Traffic doesn't not equal conversion, it never did.

If you need to call yourself an influencer, you are unlikely one. Instagram's
policies to market itself don't change facts.

Marketers used to pride themselves being hidden persuaders.

~~~
unreal37
The marketers using influencers are still hidden.

An influencer is just an extremely cheap actor. Tom Cruise costs $20 million
to get for this commercial, and 1,000 influencers costs only $1 million.

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ChrisRR
Can someone ELI5 what an influencer is? I've seen the term used quite often
but never looked into it.

Is it basically an instagram user with lots of followers that posts sponsored
pictures or is there more to it than that?

~~~
Semaphor
My understanding: A person who has many followers who will like and buy
whatever the influencer likes.

~~~
unfunco
You've described both the influencer and the influenced.

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ryanmarsh
This article doesn’t address the power law of influencers. Audiences are
engaging with a smaller number of super mega influencers such as the Bucket
List Family (1.8M followers).

------
alkonaut
What is "engagement" here? Is it something that is coupled to actual sales, or
just likes/reposts?

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AliaksandrH
it's clear that influencers make a lot of money on IG but IG doesn't get a cut

~~~
teej
I actually don’t think it’s clear at all that IG influencers make money at
all. I imagine that it’s similar to Twitch or Youtube - you have a very small
0.1% minority at the top making most of the income and everyone else scrapes
by.

~~~
rococode
I think a lot of the lower-tier influencers look at influencing as a source of
freebies rather than an actual job. They don't make much of an income, but
they're perfectly happy just with the free things they're given to promote.

~~~
ghaff
Not Instagram, but I know someone who is a food scene/restaurant blogger on
the side. She likes going it (and does a good job). She gets some trips and
probably money/benefits here and there but it's definitely more of a hobby
with some perks than what a lot of people here think of as a side-gig much
less a significant employment stream.

I know someone else who does hiking equipment reviews who I expect is in a
somewhat similar boat.

