
Ask HN: Laid off. Now what? - bourbondd
The startup I worked for has announced that it is going to shut down in May. Unfortunately, that meant 80% of us would immediately be let go. Myself included. The severance pay was really small and my health insurance will be deactivated by the end of the month. As much as I&#x27;m trying to just move on and start job hunting, I can&#x27;t help but to freak out a little about the outcome since it was very unexpected. For some of you that may have experienced being laid off before, what were some of the first things you decided to do afterward? Do you have any advice or share any lessons learned?
======
tabeth
1\. I would immediately file for unemployment in your area, if applicable.

2\. Take one day and just relax. Have the most fun you can possibly have that
doesn't damage your health or take anything more than a trivial amount of
money.

3\. Calculate your burn rate and cut expenses.

4\. Accept that you have a new job. Your new job is finding a new job.

5\. Dedicate 20 hours a week to finding and applying to jobs. You can just
submit your form everywhere. Spend 5 hours a week identifying companies that
you like in particular. Spend 15 hours a week attempting to make actionable
progress improving your interviewing ability. This might mean studying things
like Cracking the Coding Interview, or doing small projects to show that you
can work with technologies that some of your prospective employers want to
see.

Throttle the looking for a job part from 25 to 40 hours, keeping everything
the same. Do not spend more than 60 hours total doing job hunting related
activities. You'll burn out and become unmotivated.

Good luck!

~~~
bsvalley
40 hours a week? I've done it in the past it's not realistic. If you schedule
one interview per day, you'll burn out quickly. You need breaks in between to
digest the previous interview.

~~~
falcolas
Personally, I didn't find that any form of break between interviews made a
difference (excepting when I had to fly out of state). I was fine doing 2-3
interviews (in person combined with phone) a day when they came up. It's
probably a personal thing.

If you do need a break between interviews, submitting new applications or
working on your skills makes for a decent filler. Like a regular paying job,
you'll get out of your application efforts what you put into them.

~~~
bsvalley
Sure, you can practice and reflect on the previous interview in-between. Your
level of concentration is so high during a technical interview, as soon as you
disconnect you get a big drop. For an onsite for example, you go to 5-10 45
minutes interviews in a row... you're in until the end, then you crash at
night in your bed. No way you can do the same thing the next morning.

~~~
jon-wood
5-10 interviews in a row seems ridiculous to me. It may be that I focus on
smaller companies, but I've never done more than two interviews for any job,
and usually its just a phone screen and an in-person interview.

------
usernametbd
What kind of job were you working in? If you are in the software field, you
chances of finding employment again are high. But the key is for you to act
fast. While it is sad that you are out of job, this is not the time to regret
or ponder over what you could have done differently. There is plenty of time
for that.

I can share my own story. On one Saturday, I got a phone call from a co-worker
that there are rumors of an impending massive layoff the following week. And
then I got laid off on Monday. But I updated my resume on Saturday and already
applied for several jobs on Sunday and started preparing for interviews. On
Monday, I got laid off. And on Tuesday, I got a call scheduling for an
interview. That entire week, I got two more calls for interviews. I scheduled
them for the week after that as I needed at least one week to get up to speed
with interview preparation. 20 days after my layoff, I had an offer. I still
had interviews scheduled from bigger companies at that time, but I took the
offer because I had some personal situations also to deal with at the time (My
marriage was supposed to be in 3 weeks). I had a good raise in the new job,
and with severance, it all ended up great with a good bonus and a raise.

My general advice is this. While I admit it is an incredibly stressful and
emotional time, your emotions cannot take priority over actions.

~~~
qhoc
I got a question about severance and new job. Some companies (like mine) will
ask you to report new job and they will cut severance (monthly salary). If so,
how do you deal with that? Many of my previous co-workers told me they just
lied and the company never checked (all verbal or writing).

~~~
usernametbd
That doesn't sound right. Granted, severance is not mandatory for an employer
and they can choose to give you nothing when letting you go. Although, asking
about your new job and salary doesn't sound legal. All that said, if I were an
employee, I wouldn't lie in any case. I'd like to keep my hand clean, which
would save me if the crap hits the ceiling.

------
GuiA
As a sidenote, this post highlights why your first priority when you have a
decent paying job should be saving ~6 months or so of expenses so that if
something like that happens, you have an immediate safety net to fall back on.

There are too many people in the Bay Area making 6 figures salary and living
paycheck to paycheck (exorbitant rent + car lease + student debt payments +
weekends in Tahoe + nice brunches + buying the newest phone quickly adds
up...)

~~~
crgt
All that's required for living paycheck to paycheck in the Bay Area is a
willingness to pay exorbitant rent. The other stuff is a distraction from the
real cash drain.

~~~
memonkey
I don't know. I could easily spend $200 bucks a week on lunch and dinner
alone.

~~~
crgt
Right. And, at least for a family, rent is 3k-4k+. Where's the real cash
drain?

~~~
wazanator
They're both cash drains. One's just bigger then the other, cutting back on
both is sound advice if you are looking to save. I agree that you are probably
right in that rent is a bigger factor but they are also right in that by not
eating an expensive lunch everyday will add up over time.

I think everyone can agree that learning how to properly budget finances
should be something we all should learn.

~~~
crgt
I guess I was thinking about it in the context of saving up six months of
living expenses. If rent is 4k+ you have to skip a lot lunches to save enough
to cover that for six months with no income..

------
bsvalley
\- First outcome => Working for a startup is riskier than working for an
established company.

\- Second outcome => Do I want to work for a startup again in the future? No.

\- Third outcome => If a startup is successful, the outcome is
disproportionate between the founders and the employees. But, it if fails,
we're all equally unemployed.

Do I really want to be an employee at a startup? nope.

~~~
sumedh
Well that depends, if you have no dependents and some money in the bank you
can take a risk by working in a startup, you get to learn so much.

~~~
rstormsf
yes, but we are talking about rewards. It's still high risk/low reward

------
alain94040
It happens, especially when working for a real [ie., risky] startup. Even
though it feels personal, it's not.

First, work on your stress level. Health coverage needs to be addressed soon.
Look up COBRA and the grace period, that should give you some peace of mind.
Look at your bank account. Hopefully you have some savings.

Next, keep in mind that it's easier to find a job when you already have one,
than if you are unemployed. So activate your network. Did your startup have
competitors or partners? They may be interested in your experience. Ping you
college friends. Where are they now?

------
petervandijck
Step 1. Drinks with colleagues who got fired too, stay in touch for job
opportunities (X is hiring).

Step 2. Polish up resume.

Step 3. Contact your network (one by one, not mass), say "our startup is
shutting down, looking for next job, any pointers?"

Step 4. Make a list of companies you want to apply for (regardless of whether
they're "hiring", everyone is).

Step 5. Set up an account with hired.com and similar job searching sites.

~~~
rstormsf
use this link to apply for hired -
[https://hired.com/x/jFYnPO](https://hired.com/x/jFYnPO)

~~~
chad_strategic
I wouldn't waste your time with hired.

------
jacobwg
I can second many of the things already posted.

I would also emphasize that unemployment, if available, helps tide things over
financially and you should file for it _immediately_. It takes a few weeks
before the first unemployment check arrives, so the sooner that process starts
the better.

When the startup I was working for shut down, I mistakenly waited a few weeks
before applying in the hopes I would be able to find a replacement job quickly
and out of some weird stigma against unemployment as "free money", instead
relying on what was in the checking account in the meantime. As a result,
finances became very tight while waiting for that unemployment to assist with
rent. I learned #1 to apply for unemployment immediately, and #2 unemployment
exists to protect you against this very situation, and your former employer
has been paying unemployment taxes to cover this - get rid of any stigma
against "free money".

Also, if you're looking for an engineering job, I have found the job hiring
process to take a minimum of about 6 weeks. Consider it like a pipeline,
continuously applying for positions, transitioning those into emails / phone
screenings, and transitioning those into interviews, but keep feeding the pipe
throughout the whole process. For me, that meant applying to companies for the
first 4 weeks, starting to hear back from companies from week 2 through 4,
then weeks 5 and 6 are for final interviews / negotiating offers.

For my past two job changes, I applied to 60 and 30 companies, heard back from
10 and 8, and got offers from 2 and 5, respectively. (the second time around I
better targeted jobs that fit my experience than the first time around)

------
hxta98596
There's a much longer answer to this that factors in your savings, what your
resume looks like and minimizing the chances of this happening to you in the
future.

Two immediate pieces of advice:

1\. Shore up relationships with your colleagues and get their non-work contact
info if you don't have it. Make this network stronger. Former colleagues can
recommend you and pull you in at new companies they get hired at. They can
also refer you to job openings they know about but aren't pursuing. It's one
step of many, but people can get caught up in worrying and applying elsewhere,
they forget about this network of colleagues right in front who can help each
other. Keep in touch, check in, ask for leads and referrals if you are still
looking, offer them if you have them.

2\. Don't freak out. But if you are really worried, since 20% of staff are
staying for now so: A laid off employee can ask management if they can stay
and help for a few more weeks at reduced pay and while he/she looks for
something else. I don't recommend doing that, looking for a job can be a full-
time job. Never hurts to offer and ask.

------
scaryclam
1) It's OK to panic for a short while. Get it out of the way so you can get
past it and start job hunting properly. 2) Contact recruiters, get your CV
brushed up, talk to your companies HR if you have it, they can be helpful in
this situation, even if it's just helping you get your CV brushed up. 3)
Update your linkedin in case someone out there is looking at profiles like
yours, you never know, you might get lucky and bag a quick interview. 4) I'm
guessing from the insurance thing you're in the US? Let HN know where you are!
5) Unless you're in dire straits financially, take a deep breath when you get
your first job offer and make sure it's not a bad choice for you. 6) Use your
free time well. Get out of bed in the mornings, get dressed, spend some time
looking for a new job, but when that's done have something else to fill your
time. If you can get a side project going you'll feel like you're at work
which can really help keep motivated.

------
mindcrime
Start calling recruiters and/or submitting resumes, etc. NOW. It seems like it
always takes longer for things to happen than you want, so don't waste even a
minute getting the job hunt going. That is, unless you have plenty of savings
as a buffer.

You may also want to immediately do the math to see exactly how much money you
need for things that are absolute "musts" to pay... light bill, gas bill,
rent, etc., and figure out how much runway you have if you do nothing but pay
the essentials. If worst comes to worst, there are always things you can just
stop paying and fall behind on, and then catch up when you're back working.
Hopefully it won't come to that, but better to make informed decisions than
stumble around in the dark.

You'll probably also want to lower your burn rate as much as you can: cut out
the daily latte at Starbucks or any other frivolous expenditures that you can
do without.

Those are the first things that come to mind, given my experiences having been
laid off in the past.

~~~
falcolas
Taking a weekend to digest what's happened isn't going to burn _that_ much
money, and it will help ensure you're ready to move on to submitting
applications.

Something fairly traumatic just happened, don't be afraid to take time to
absorb it so you can focus on the next effort.

------
bootload
_" For some of you that may have experienced being laid off before, what were
some of the first things you decided to do afterward? Do you have any advice
or share any lessons learned?"_

Minimise expenses.

Remember your worth is not to be measured by work alone. It will be easy to
discouraged and spiral down. Don't. You are in survival mode now. Be flexible.
If you have no choice, take jobs you might not like. The way you mentally
approach this will give you an edge. In startup land, you are ahead of the
curve if the economy tanks and more layoffs occur. Work hard. Luck favours the
prepared.

------
mindfulgeek
Oh man! Not easy, especially when caught off guard. I was laid off
unexpectedly two years ago. It was surprising and not surprising all at once.
I think there is a lot of good advice already. I think it is a blessing to be
let go before the boat sinks. Maybe you lose control over some things, but the
morale hit and depression of working through a literal death march sucks.

I had more than a decade of steady work, so the experience that my job was
guaranteed was humbling.

Overall, I'm thankful for the loss I had. It wasn't an easy ride, but most of
the good ones aren't.

------
contingencies
Honestly my suggestion would be to move to another country where you are not
effectively tortured like a caged animal about your own health and welfare and
expected to work 355 days a year. If you are free of a partner/dependents you
could try teaching English in some different exotic locales, that's easy
stable cash in many places while you decide what you want to do / sort
something out more stimulating / come up with your billion dollar startup
idea. You would be surprised how hard it is to spend money in some places!

~~~
palerdot
Can you throw some light on the "teaching English in some different exotic
locales" part? Like the countries/locations and how easy is it for someone to
migrate (atleast temporarily like 6 months/1 year) and spend time like this?

~~~
contingencies
Not really as I haven't done it personally but there's loads of people doing
it including many friends of mine in China and Thailand. A lot of them do it
semi-legally. There are entire communities dedicated to this sort of thing,
try searching TEFL or TESOL or similar. If you don't want the visa hassles you
can do it online too, usually via Skype I think. The matching operators take a
fat cut, 15% I heard.

------
2061a48b32e8
Personally, I took some time to learn.

I don't mean learning on the job, or learning for a purpose, but rather,
studying.

It won't, however, buy you anything beyond what you feel you have gained (no
one will necessarily care about what you learned).

But for yourself, take that time, and enjoy the experience.

As IT people, we tend to be focus on acquiring knowledge for a purpose, and we
aren't always great at actually learning, vs. learning what we need to do
right now.

I found that receiving education I sought out was beneficial, and made me more
engaged in learning. That isn't marketable, but from a personal perspective,
is important.

As others have suggested, see what the state can do to help the financial side
of things, and think about this in a different way: if you had quit, and
wanted to find the right step to take next, what would you do?

It is a luxury to do this (I live in Europe, it is easier), but one you should
consider affording yourself: you are your first work tool.

------
deathanatos
Breathe. It's stressful as heck right now, but when you land a job, that'll
all come off your shoulders.

 _Read everything._ Check your mail: you'll likely be getting health insurance
change notices there; read them so that you understand them. You might receive
information about COBRA via snail mail too.

Update your résumé. Update your LinkedIn. Get contact info on your current
coworkers _now_ : they're in the same boat, and if they land an opportunity at
a company with more than one open slot, they might be able to refer you.
Network with past contacts, see if they have anything. (I found my current job
through a former, now again co-worker.)

Re health insurance: you may be able to take COBRA. Research this, and pay
attention to the materials you're given. For example, when I was laid off, we
were required to activate COBRA, despite it being free (in my situation; this
is does not necessarily apply to you).

> _80% of us would immediately be let go_ […] _The severance pay was really
> small_

 _I am not a layer, and this is not legal advice_ (for that, see a lawyer): If
you're in the United States, and _particularly_ if you are in California (but
if you're not, you might still want to look, some states have similar laws;
find out if your state does): Look up "WARN", the Worker Adjustment and
Retraining Notification Act. My understanding is that it provides, _in some
circumstances_ a minimum notification of layoff. It depends, partly, on your
company's size, and I believe also the layoff size, so you may or may not be
eligible. It's a federal law, but some states (like CA) have a state version
with more strict requirements. My understanding is that if you are covered by
WARN in California, and your employer does not provide the required notice,
they must make up for it by paying you. Again, _I am not a lawyer, and this is
not legal advice_ ; for that, you should seek out a lawyer.

------
JSeymourATL
1) Finances - understand where every dime is going, slash your expenses now.

2 ) Get your War Room ready - purge junk/clutter/distractions at your home
work space.

3) Physcical Health - do keep up a daily work-out routine, get out of the
house, keep moving...

4) Limit job boards surfing to 5 minutes a week, low hit rate here, huge
energy drain.

5) Amp-UP Strategic Networking-- make a goal of connecting (live
conversations) with 5 senior level executives/managers daily. That's 100 a
month! This requires an unusual amount of focus and energy. Ultimately this
process yields the best opportunities.

6) Food for Thought- Using Design Theory To Build A Better Life >
[http://dianerehm.org/shows/2016-10-03/using-design-theory-
to...](http://dianerehm.org/shows/2016-10-03/using-design-theory-to-build-a-
better-life)

------
salesguy222
Sorry to hear about your bad luck! it will be ok. some ideas:

1) COBRA for health insurance.

2) if you dont have ongoing health issues, don't worry too much about medical
expenses. theyre negotiable and not as impactful in the past.

3) relax and treat it like a vacation

4) negotiate with landlord about reducing rent or subletting or breaking lease

5) interview, be happy and positive, see what you can land!

~~~
pasbesoin
You have a limited timeframe to select health care insurance continuation
under COBRA. You should at least explore what the cost would be -- it may be
better than what you can find on your own.

Regardless, right now, you _may_ be ok in the following regard, in the short
term. But with the ACA on the chopping block, one thing that has been
recommended already by... "those in the know" is to make sure you maintain
_continuity of coverage._

One of the things the ACA has eliminated is exclusion for prior conditions.
But that may not survive. And should it not, resulting limitations can apply
even if you end up getting insurance through another employer. You might get
insurance, but with limitations. In the past, before the ACA, demonstrating
continuity of coverage helped avoid such limitations. If/when the ACA dies,
this is likely to be pertinent and important, once again.

Ending the ACA means the end of much more than just the marketplace insurance
plans and tax rebates. The health care insurance situation in the U.S. is
likely to get a whole lot worse, again, even for those who never participated
in an ACA health insurance plan.

~~~
quicklyfrozen
COBRA will also end with the company's health plan, so it won't be available
once the company fully closes down.

~~~
pasbesoin
Hmm. Does it? That seems to be a loophole that would have been covered when
COBRA was enacted -- the insurance company still being in business and able to
ensure, with payments coming from the insured (or an administrative third
party) rather than the employer.

I don't know, so I'm asking. If I were the OP, I'd double-check this point
with respect to their state's laws and regulations as well as Federal law and
regulation. (Sounds complicated, but probably has a final, simple answer that
the local experts know.)

~~~
quicklyfrozen
I was surprised as well, but as COBRA allows you to remain under the company's
health plan, that option goes away if the health plan goes away, and the plan
goes away when the company stops contributing. When my last employer shut
down, we had less then a week to find a replacement -- we were paid up to the
end of the month, but that was it.

------
Taylor_OD
If you post on your linkedin that you are looking you will probably have a
number of people reach out.

~~~
Taylor_OD
Example:
[https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6235583...](https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6235583602051158016/)

Engineer from Zenefits was laid off. Plenty of people reaching out. You could
honestly even just reach out to all the people who reached out to her.

------
crgt
What do you do? Where do you live? People here may be hiring.. ;) At least put
some info in your profile..

------
steve371
I would start job hunting right away. Though after accept the new job offer,
be sure to leave yourself some off time to take a vacation or relax yourself.
Don't recommend to do vacation before new job landed though.

------
wglb
Immediately begin your job search. One day can turn into five and five into
months.

Activate your networks and develop them if you don't have one

And do these only six hous per day

------
tsunamifury
In addition to the excellent advice here:

Take a moment and feel really good about the work you did, even if the company
didn't succeed. Celebrate that you probably contributed a lot to making a
small startup survive for as long as it did. Acknowledge that was in some part
due to you, and then write down the things you felt most proud of.

Keep that paper with you every time you interview, so you are reminded that
you did good work, and have a positive story about why you will bring a lot of
value to your next role

------
crdoconnor
I booked a one way flight to Thailand.

The weather was pretty good for my mental health, as was the change of
scenery. Also the cost of living there is very low.

------
donretag
Vacation. Dependent on your living expenses and the amount of unemployment you
get. Life is short, if you can travel while collecting unemployment, then try
and do so.

Been laid off a few times. I wish I traveled the first couple of times.

~~~
ovet
Unemployement unfortunately never feels like vacation though. I tried to take
a cross country trip last time i was unemployeed and ended up just feeling
guilty i was missing out on interviews.

------
patmcguire
In addition to what everyone else has said, keep in touch with your coworkers.
It's much easier to get a job if you know someone who can vouch for you,
they're all in the same boat as you.

------
kapauldo
I would sign up as a contractor with a staffing firm. Youll get hired
immediately and it will give your income and buy you time.

------
aaronblohowiak
If in the US your insurance should not be deactivated, you should have the
ability to take over the payments under COBRA.

Update your LinkedIn!

------
finleymedia
Where are you located? What skills do you have to offer? What are you
interested in doing?

------
lcl-beignet
\- There is a bias among employers favoring workers who are already employed.
If you can strike any kind of deal with your current firm to stay on part-time
or at a reduced rate while you look, that might be worth doing.

\- If you can't strike that deal, then treat getting a job as a job. It's very
tempting to sleep in until 10 AM every morning when you no longer have an
office you have to be at. Resist that temptation. Get out of bed, put on some
decent professional-looking clothes, and get to work. This can't be emphasized
enough. Finding a job is a job.

\- And _because_ it's a job, give yourself an outlet for getting away from it.
Leave time for recreation. Take care of yourself. Put in your work and then
have some fun.

\- Along the it's-a-job lines, learn everything you can about doing this job
well. Selling yourself is a skill. Learn as much as you can about resume-
writing, interviewing, etc.

\- Slash that burn rate. Having two months' normal expenses in the bank means
nothing if your next paycheck is five months away.

\- Recruiters get a bad rap sometimes, but the big-name national recruiters
(TekSystems, Robert Half, a few others) can be very helpful.

\- Do what you can to enhance that CV. If you're a programmer, look for open-
source programs you can contribute to. If you're a netadmin or systems guy,
get certified. Find a non-profit that will let you do XYZ, even if for little
or no money. Surely there's a church or community group that could use a
sprucing up of its website, or have its Windows workstations updated, or who
have piles of Excel spreadsheets just crying out to be properly databaseized.
Every little resume bit helps.

\- Network, network, network.

\- Let everyone in that network know you're looking. Some people get bashful
or feel embarrassed that they lost their job. Don't fall into that. Remember
that you have nothing to be ashamed of. And obviously someone was willing to
hire your before. Someone else will again.

\- I'm assuming you're young and still establishing yourself. If not then
freely ignore, but:

\- In terms of career planning it can be better to target the biggest
companies you can. Rise through the ranks in a 5,000-employee enterprise and
you'll find that when the time comes startups and small firms will fall all
over themselves trying to get you as a VP or even director. Conversely, you
might wind up limiting yourself long term if you work exclusively for small
firms, since large enterprises tend to want people with large-enterprise
experience. YMMV, depends on your personality & career goals.

\- Resist the temptation to use this as a vacation. If you can establish
yourself as a top person in your field, someone who will always be in demand,
there will be plenty of time to take mid-career sabbaticals, even lengthy
ones. Until you've found a way to differentiate yourself from the crowd,
though, probably best to keep your nose to the grindstone.

\- Good luck!

------
aerovistae
get a new job :D

