
Astronaut Selection - DanielRibeiro
http://astronauts.nasa.gov/content/broch00.htm
======
Cyph0n
On a related note, there is an excellent anime series on what it takes to
become an astronaut called "Space Brothers" [1]. It's about two brothers, the
younger becomes a NASA astronaut, while the older tries to catch up by
applying to join JAXA (Japanese space agency). It's quite accurate in its
portrayal of qualifying examinations and tests, yet still is entertaining to
watch.

[1]:
[http://myanimelist.net/anime/12431/Uchuu_Kyoudai](http://myanimelist.net/anime/12431/Uchuu_Kyoudai)

~~~
lmm
I found it very slow and dull. My group gave up when we accidentally skipped
an episode _and didn 't realize_.

~~~
Cyph0n
Oh come on don't tell me you didn't at least enjoy the tests done by JAXA? The
traitor one was really interesting.

~~~
lmm
Didn't get that far. Dropped it around 10 or 11 (just after the bus journey).
5 hours is more than enough of a chance to give a series.

~~~
fennecfoxen
> _5 hours is more than enough of a chance to give a series._

Five hours is more than enough. Five hours is enough time for the writers to
take a genre, deconstruct it, salt the earth, collect all the pieces in one
place and build a bonfire, dance around the flames thrice widdershins while
invoking ancient and mysterious rites, take off and nuke the site from orbit
(just to be sure)... and finally, on the site of the wreck, rebuild it all
again more beautiful than it had ever been, in the process winning every award
in the book and _forever altering the future of the genre._

But then, maybe I've just been utterly spoiled by _Puella Magi Madoka Magica_
(12 episodes, 300m). :b

~~~
TeMPOraL
I guess I'm a very impatient man. I gave up around the second episode.

~~~
fennecfoxen
... of _Madoka_? Makes sense. The first two-and-three-quarter episodes
deliberately conformed to the banal clichés of the genre, as a trap to snare
unwary tween girls into thinking there would be lots of happiness and
sparkles, instead of death, angst, pain, death, and more death. :P

------
ThePhysicist
The ESA had a similar program in 2008, but the next round has not been
announced yet it seems:

[http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Human_Spaceflight/European...](http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Human_Spaceflight/European_Astronaut_Selection)

Being an astronaut sounds pretty cool, but personally I don't even feel very
comfortable in a plane, hence sitting in a rocket with 500,000 kg of
explosives underneath me is not something I would really consider doing,
independent of the fact that it's of course doubtful if I would even
physically/psychologically qualify for such a task. I hope though that as I
get older space travel will become both safer and more affordable, because I
would really love to see our planet from outside its atmosphere, even if just
for a minute.

~~~
jamesmontalvo3
The stated minimum requirements and the actual minimum-to-have-a-shot
requirements are different, and they are different now than they used to be.
Nowadays astronauts training for the ISS need to be generalists capable of
doing everything. During the Space Shuttle era astronauts flew for a couple
weeks at a time, and they were able to specialize in certain aspects. This
meant that some people focused on EVA (spacewaks), some on robotics, some on
flying the Shuttle, etc. Now, amongst other things, everyone needs to be EVA-
capable, which means everyone needs to be physically capable of operating
inside the space suit. I train astronauts to do EVAs, and working inside the
space suit is a very physically demanding job.

------
spectre256
"Salaries for civilian Astronaut Candidates are based on the Federal
Government’s General Schedule pay scales for grades GS-11 through GS-14"

From
[http://www.federaljobs.net/salarybase.htm#SALARY_TABLE_2015-...](http://www.federaljobs.net/salarybase.htm#SALARY_TABLE_2015-GS)
it sounds like civilian astronaut salaries then range from $51k to $112k per
year. That feels pretty low, but presumably astonauts assigned to a mission
can make money through public speaking, etc.

~~~
pc86
Plus a minimum 14% cost-of-living adjustment, plus benefits associated with a
job with the Federal government. Assuming you've got a PhD that immediately
puts you in the GS 13/14 range, which is about $80-112k plus the above.

Nobody applies to be an astronaut to get rich, but for a well-educated person
$150k in pay and benefits is absolutely possible, which is a great paycheck,
especially in Houston.

~~~
Jtsummers
Having a PhD offers no such guarantee in the federal government. I have a
GS-11 friend who has an aerospace engineering PhD, granted only 4 years into
her employment, but still no guarantee.

The GS grades are not about education, but job responsibility. The grade for a
given position also depends on the agency you're working for and where. An
engineer with the AF working for ACC might be a GS-11, but a GS-12 if they
switched to AFMC, or GS-13 if they did the same job with AFMC at another base.

~~~
pc86
> _Having a PhD offers no such guarantee in the federal government._

I misread the GS site, you are correct.

Still quite a bit above the median in terms of salary, which was my only real
point (and that if you are primarily motivated by money, advanced degrees and
Federal government employment is probably not in your future, anyway).

------
celebration
For anyone who hasn't already read it, I highly recommend 'An Astronaut's
Guide to Life on Earth' by Chris Hadfield. It's a highlt entertaining read
with lots of anecdotes from his training and time in space. The book really
gives you an appreciation for the immense levels of dedication and focus
required to become an astronaut. I also think his work ethic and positive
outlook on life is pretty inspirational for anyone, not just those interested
in space.

------
ruffrey
Amazing, astronaut candidates are paid less that a Silicon Valley software
dev.

~~~
saiya-jin
so are 90% of other high-tech skilled jobs

~~~
waterlesscloud
And pretty much everyone on (or off in this case!) the planet.

A lot of HN readers seem really, seriously out of touch on the income front.

~~~
TeMPOraL
It surprises me very much. I understand that many in tech may not have close
friends from outside tech, but family? Do so many people are second-generation
technologists, so they don't end up in those uncomfortable situations where
they avoid the topic of salaries near their siblings, parents, or SO?

------
Kenji
I wonder how they screen mental health and what the requirements are related
to that. Being out there can be a psychological strain.

~~~
mattlutze
From the experts themselves:

[http://www.space.com/26799-nasa-astronauts-psychological-
eva...](http://www.space.com/26799-nasa-astronauts-psychological-
evaluation.html)

------
bbayer
Too bad that is required to be U.S. citizen for the application. It is totally
understandable but I wish I have a chance.

~~~
eternauta3k
If you move there now you could be a citizen in 5 years...

~~~
bbayer
I don't think relocation is enough to get citizenship. As far as I know it is
possible if you are lucky for getting green card.

------
phasmantistes
Does anyone know what the "anthropometric requirements for both the specific
vehicle and the extravehicular activity mobility unit" are? I assume there are
both maximum and minimum heights, but weight probably isn't a direct factor
(just a factor as it affects your girth). Anyone have numbers?

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tempodox
Feet? Pounds? Incredible. I move for the introduction of the metric system.

~~~
briandear
Why? Works for them.

~~~
Tankenstein
Uhh, no, it doesn't:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter?oldformat...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter?oldformat=true)

------
CraigJPerry
I watched a press conference about astronaut selection from the 60s. The press
mostly wanted to know about religious persuasions and marital statuses which
felt like major culture shock to me.

~~~
rjsw
You might like to read The Right Stuff [1], the film is good too but the book
goes into quite a bit of detail on how the astronauts were seen as
representing the nation.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Right_Stuff_%28book%29](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Right_Stuff_%28book%29)

------
peter303
Since the end of the shuttles in 2011 only four US astronauts go into orbit a
year. Basically NASA has two of six astronauts on the space state, for an
average of six month terms. While the ISS was being constructed as many as 20
astronauts went into space a year, for about a week.

------
waterlesscloud
The kid I grew up literally next door to became an astronaut. It'd be hard for
me to be any more jealous. :-)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_S._Kimbrough](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_S._Kimbrough)

------
artmageddon
I wonder what the chance of a software developer would be for making it to
selection :)

------
dan_blanchard
The thought of going to space is certainly enticing, but since I don't like
turbulent flights or rollercoasters, this is probably not for me.

------
geonnave
They mention "Russian language training" in the Astronaut Candidate training
program.

Interesting.

~~~
ceejayoz
Why interesting? Any NASA astronaut who goes to space currently has to work
with Russians on the ISS, and gets there via a Russian launch vehicle. Basic
knowledge of the language is a must, if for nothing other than "don't press
the button labeled 'self-destruct' in Russian".

~~~
geonnave
Oh, sure. I didn't realized that at first. It must be my programmer brain
telling me "English is the one global language" all the time.

(note: I'm not an English native speaker)

~~~
iamcurious
It is, until it isn't. I wonder how long would English last as the lingua
franca of the west if the USA focused inward like Canada.

------
greydius
I'm too tall, unfortunately. But I am a white male, so I guess I'll just have
to settle for a job as a CEO.

------
rbanffy
They just lost a great candidate because of the citizenship requirements...
;-)

~~~
k__
lol

They also don't seem to need computer scientists :\

~~~
Al-Khwarizmi
I don't know how the taxonomy of degrees works in the US, but wouldn't
computer science be considered either a mathematics or an engineering field?
Also, there is a list of engineering and science-related degrees that are
excluded, and computer science is not on it...

~~~
rtkwe
It's generally in the engineering school at universities. A CS degree might
make the qualifications it's just that there's no reason to send a programmer
to space right now. Maybe there would be a need on a Mars mission where you
can't just ssh in from the ground but they'll probably want someone with
another applicable degree.

~~~
trothamel
They don't need a reason to send a programmer into space.

What they need is to send people into space that are smart enough to
understand the myriad systems around the, maintain them, and conduct the
various experiments and other tasks planned. Basically, they're looking for
smart people that they can train to have the needed skills, rather than people
that have the needed skills outright. (Since nobody actually does.)

A pure CS degree might put you at (an overcomeable) disadvantage, since they
seem to value the ability to do experimental science. But it can and has been
overcome, see:

[http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/chamitoff.html](http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/chamitoff.html)

Also, note that astronauts tend to be selected late in life - mid-30s and
early-40s - since NASA likes accomplished people.

~~~
jamesmontalvo3
Steve Swanson is a CS PhD:
[http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/swanson.html](http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/swanson.html)

~~~
etjossem
Though his Bachelor's was still in Engineering - Physics.

~~~
jamesmontalvo3
True. From my perspective (I train astronauts and work in Mission Control)
it's most important to be able to quickly learn a wide range of general
engineering principles. You need to be able to understand how the
International Space Station works, which in some cases requires a computer
background and in other cases more of a mechanical background (and everywhere
in between). Astronauts are constantly in some training program learning (or
re-training) some aspect of their job. In some respect they are full time
students.

------
markusbrutus
Its high time that humanity moved past the notion that sending meatbags into
space is a good idea. Pampering to Star Trek fans has squandered trillions of
dollars pursuing the "meatbags in space" chimera and all they have to show for
is a crammed toilet in LEO (soon to be decommissioned since all the "bubbles
in space" experiments than 10 year-olds can conceive have been carried out)
and the abominable space shuttle. Had robotic exploration being pursued
instead we would have had thriving Lunar and perhaps asteroid belt mining by
now. What's more, at this point it would have made economic sense and it would
create wealth rather than destroy it. Some grandiose ideas are fun but they
get you nowhere, and leave you worse off as they represent a gigantic
misallocation of capital. The Pyramids for instance, did not propel humanity
in an era of skyscraper building.

~~~
jacquesm
July 1st 1492: It's high time that humanity moved past the notion that sending
meatbags onto the oceans is a good idea. Pampering to fans of stories about
shorter routes to Asia has squandered a great many dubloons pursuing the
'meatbags on the waves' chimera and all we have to show for it is a severe
case of scurvy and a bunch of rotten timber. We already know how to get to
Asia overland, why _on earth_ would we bother finding a longer, more dangerous
and probably slower route around the other side. Besides, everybody knows the
Earth is flat.

Some grandiose ideas are fun but they get you nowhere and leave you worse off
as they represent a gigantic mis-allocation of capital.

~~~
markusbrutus
Relying on analogies to guide one's thinking is so common and so wrong, I
guess there must be some Latin phrase to describe it. Plus, as I am sure you
are aware, the attempted analogy is broken on more points than I care to
enumerate.

~~~
jacquesm
It's a friendly way of telling you that your position is bull-shit. Not
everything we as humanity can do should be looked at through the lens of
immediate utility. If that point passed you by then apologies I'll try to make
more watertight analogies in the future.

The ability to set up colonies in space has very little to do with star trek
fandom (I can't stand it so no 'star trek' fan here). It is a way to expand
our envelope, to reduce our viewpoint of Earth as a special place in the
universe (it's only special to us right now) and it will, in the longer term
yield dividends in ways that we probably can not even think of today, just
like Columbus probably had no idea of the magnitude of the future consequences
of his voyage.

If every bit of research or every human activity to date would be viewed with
the eye towards immediate economic sense then we'd still be hunter gatherers
living in Africa, all of us.

Discovery, curiosity and a drive to expand our envelopes both in a physical
sense and in a mental sense are valuable too, even if they don't show up next
week on some balance sheet of humanity, Inc.

~~~
markusbrutus
We live in a big universe that's greatly unexplored both at the macro- and the
micro- level, both in the physical and the spiritual realms (since you allude
to less material motives in your reply). Anything we do (even large-scale,
government-sponsored meditation) has the _potential_ to "yield dividents in
ways we probably can not even think of today". That's why you need economic
calculation (and a firm grounding) to quantify that _potential_ and decide
which of the infinite projects that individuals, governments, or humanity can
undertake makes the more sense. Colombus voyage actually made perfect sense
from that perspective as it was all about economic calculation.

~~~
jacquesm
You seem to be stuck on economy so I'll limit to that.

The Potential of successful colonization of another planet is a total unknown,
just like the potential of colonizing another continent is a total unknown. At
least we know the other planet exist, whereas America was a bit of a surprise
for Columbus.

Letting economic calculations guide you in the day-to-day running of a
business is fine. But we as humanity can afford a little bit of money set
aside for things that have no immediate value. Art and culture are amongst our
most valuable possessions, but their value seems to be appreciating with time
relative to the time when they were created. Much of our scientific knowledge
had no immediate value at the time of discovery.

Columbus voyage may have made 'perfect sense' from an economic perspective in
hindsight _because it worked_ , but there was no guarantee that it would and
plenty of people were arguing this was a waste of resources at the time.

I'm just as proud or more so of what humanity has achieved when economic gain
wasn't the immediate focus as I am of the things we've achieved when economic
gain was at the forefront of our thoughts guiding us to make our decisions.
There is room for _both_ of those.

