
Make your own sourdough - hendricius
https://github.com/hendricius/the-bread-code/blob/master/basics/sourdough.md
======
verelo
On the topic of bread for a moment: I recently started making my own bread. I
bought a book on the topic by Ken Forkish "Flour water salt yeast", and I've
fallen in love with the process.

The recipes are great, but the first few chapters that cover his journey to
making bread, a bit of the science behind it and talking about the less
scientific components of what almost sounds like "luck" (Really, just super
detailed experimentation and careful repetition once you get the variables
right) in the process of getting the perfect rise.

I've got to admit, i'm not a big reader, but there is something about the way
Ken put this book together that I really enjoy. Maybe it's that he worked for
IBM before becoming a baker and we both think like technical individuals?
Maybe it's just good writing and I need to experience more of it? Whatever it
is, I'd encourage you to buy the book...i've got no skin in the game, but
bread making is great and his methods are slow but fun (My first bread took 18
hours to go through the whole process).

~~~
moosehawk
Second "Flour Water Salt Yeast". I've been baking bread for a few years now
following his techniques with great success. He also has a 2nd book called
"The Elements of Pizza" that I highly recommend.

I had a similar experience when starting. The process seemed time consuming
and complicated, but now I can bake a couple loaves any day of the week with a
small amount of planning and little effort/thought.

In both books he provides techniques and recipes for being able to start
baking bread and pizzas with little or no upfront investment (some containers,
a couple bannetons for bread and a peel + stone for pizzas). The best part of
the process is experimenting with your own recipes. Here's a couple shots of
some recent loaves and pizzas I've baked recently:

[https://i.imgur.com/0cKI4ad.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/0cKI4ad.jpg)

[https://i.imgur.com/iMkzJJB.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/iMkzJJB.jpg)

[https://i.imgur.com/ZEIlGy9.png](https://i.imgur.com/ZEIlGy9.png)

[https://i.imgur.com/gr0qO2t.png](https://i.imgur.com/gr0qO2t.png)

~~~
hendricius
I would suggest to score the bread in the middle before baking. That way you
will have a higher rise in the oven.

I did an experiment here:
[https://www.instagram.com/p/BhERhlnDgdQ](https://www.instagram.com/p/BhERhlnDgdQ)

Basically it's like cracks in the surface. At an angle the rise can be much
higher.

~~~
moosehawk
Forkish suggests not scoring your bread. From what I understand it can be
somewhat of a contentious issue in the bread-baking community.

I've experimented with scoring with mixed results, although I'll admit I don't
have the right tool for it and my technique may not have been correct.

~~~
kazinator
A community is basically defined as a group of people squabbling about
something that outsiders find laughable.

------
lmilcin
Recipe is fine for sure, and I was doing this for a long time, but some time
ago I have learned superior way of keeping sourdough.

The oft cited recipe asks for feeding it every day and also keeping something
like 100% hydration. Remembering to feed it every day is a major hassle for
me.

My sourdough is a piece of bread dough that is enough to use for my next
batch. Basically, after first rise and before I shape my bread, I will cut
something between 50-200g of dough, put it in a glass container with a small
hole for air circulation and store it in the fridge. I will not feed the
starter. Next time I make bread I will take it out of the fridge and mix it
with measured amount of warm water that is going to be used for the bread.

Advantages:

\- no separate feeding, you cut a piece of bread, and you use it as part of
next one,

\- hydration and salt level matches your bread recipe which means you can add
way more or less starter and the bread will still have the same hydration and
salt level,

\- the hydration and salt level makes it stable in a fridge for a very long
time, I have tested up to 3 weeks with no ill effects and I decided not to
stretch it any more. I was only able to keep the traditional 100% hydration
no-salt starter for only about a week or risk it spoiling.

I also use a spreadsheet to aid calculations (I plan to make android app but I
somehow never have time to finish it):
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lSBl3kjAeitBUH75DEIR...](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lSBl3kjAeitBUH75DEIRM95ZX94Tgk-
miApmWdpHfUA/edit?usp=sharing)

~~~
lostlogin
I’ve got a lazier option. Get some starter, add 70g of flour, 100g water and
leave it overnight. Then stick it in the fridge and use it like you’d use a
very slow working shop bought yeast (and maybe 20g at a time). Don’t feed it
till it gets low. Treat it mean, any more effort on it is wasted. Mine’s
coming up on 10 years old now and is just fine. I accidentally put it in the
freezer and lost it for a month, I think it improved it.

~~~
legohead
Even lazier option - go ask for some starter from a bakery.

~~~
munificent
Laziest option - buy bread from the bakery.

------
chrissnell
I had a starter for several years that was descended from the one kept by Dick
Proenekke [1]. He lived alone in a cabin that he built himself--by hand--deep
in the Alaskan bush. He made sourdough pancakes daily and his original starter
came from a friend of his back in town. Someone related to this person sells
the starter (on a wooden spoon) that you can buy [2] and use to create your
own descendant.

There's a fascinating PBS documentary on him that you can watch on YouTube, if
you're interested: [3]

[1]
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Proenneke](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Proenneke)

[2]
[http://richardproenneke.com/heirloom_sourdough_starter_spoon](http://richardproenneke.com/heirloom_sourdough_starter_spoon)

[3] [https://youtu.be/iYJKd0rkKss](https://youtu.be/iYJKd0rkKss)

~~~
bgaluszka
Correct me if I'm wrong but if you get sourdough made at some other place
after couple of weeks your local culture will take over thus sourdough will
loose that other place uniqueness so to speak. But I'm not an expert just
something I remember when I was interested in sourdough and pizza making.

~~~
lmilcin
You are correct. Your method of keeping the starter will over time select the
culture that is best suited for your method of keeping, from available gene
pool.

~~~
vanderZwan
Reminds me of a story I heard of a beer brand (forgot which one) that opened a
new factory which was heavily modernised, but decided to take the wooden roof
from the old one and install it above the copper kettles in the new location
to make sure the environmental bacterial cultures would remain the same to
keep their "flavour identity"

------
drsim
If you live in Denmark, the Meyers bakeries will give you free starter, just
bring a container:

[https://www.meyersmad.dk/om-meyers/meyers-
virksomheder/meyer...](https://www.meyersmad.dk/om-meyers/meyers-
virksomheder/meyers-bageri/)

~~~
dmos62
Same everywhere where there's artisan bread-making. Just ask if they have some
and they'll gladly gift it to you or tell you when to come back.

~~~
cpfohl
I started sour-doughing last fall (My wife liked it better than my brewing
hobby since it took shorter chunks of time and she liked the final product).

My local bakery actually _wouldn 't_ give or sell me a starter because, and I
quote, "I'd feel bad selling something like that, and it's too easy to start
yourself".

He then gave me instructions for starting the starter myself.

It's been fun, and way less fussy than the internet likes to make it out to
be. Except this page. Y'all seem to have the same abusive relationship to your
starters as I do,.

------
nimbius
while this is an excellent introduction to creating a sourdough _starter_ this
doesnt cover oven temperatures, bulk ferment, shaping, or the obvious use of a
banneton for final rise. There is every possibility you'll be able to create
this starter and still end up with a pancake.

The final picture in the link is absurd. The crumb is too wet to do much more
than gum up a bread knife and the crust is undefined. in the first picture,
the crust is underdeveloped suggesting low oven temperatures or a cold
kitchen.

Id like to clarify this recipe by adding the following:

80% hydration of the loaf if you're making a rustic/boule and to promote
proper gas development in the gluten structure. 65% for sandwich sourdough
loaves formed in a pan (and a prayer).

450F oven temp for 45 minutes.

12 hour rest after cooking to allow gluten to properly finalize.

1.8% salt in accordance with the EU health commission recommendations for salt
content of artisan breads.

remember to subtract your preferment hydration from the total fermentation.
that is, if you start with a 100% hydrated 200g starter, then 100g of water
must be deleted from your 80% final hydration.

if you dont have the patience for sourdough --and frankly a commercial steam
proofer-- then 1-2% yeast by weight is the general recommendation for white
bread. If you've never baked before, sourdough is enough to turn you off to
the idea of anything but store bought. it is not as easy as this post makes it
seem.

~~~
tonyarkles
Just to make sure we're clear on this, since I'm relatively new to breadmaking
and have so far only followed exact recipes... 80% hydration refers to mass
ratios, correct? 80% hydration = 100g flour to 80g water?

~~~
hendricius
Exactly.

------
hahla
I find it funny that this is post is popular because the title includes “an
engineers guide.” As a hobbyist bread and pizza maker there are so many
amazing resources across pizzamaking.com, YouTube and reddit that have years
of community input I’m almost insulted that this is more popular.

~~~
SideburnsOfDoom
It's not a great "engineer's guide" though.

My main issue at a glance is it's too linear "Day 7 Add another round of
ingredients. Day 8 You are done".

it doesn't work that predictably. You have to describe the outcome you're
waiting for, it might happen on an earlier day or later. For SW engineers,
it's a "while (!ready())" loop, not a "for (day in 1..8)" loop.

Maybe it worked that way once for the OP. But it will vary. For SW engineers,
this is a "works on my machine" type issue.

~~~
firmgently
Yes! I'd been baking all my own bread for years but had repeatedly failed to
cultivate a sourdough starter despite following lots of guides to the letter.
I finally got mine living nicely when I completely let go, stopped measuring
and worrying, just learned to smell and watch. I pour flour in straight from
the bag and splash water from a big container, as long as the consistency is
somewhere between thin mud and thick mud it can work (I think heavily
chlorinated water makes it very difficult though). I have no fridge in summer
and little-to-no heating in winter, my starter just sits on a shelf at various
temperatures... if I don't use/feed it for a while it needs a couple of days
of feeding to get busy again. Even when it's not very lively I still make
dough, it just takes longer to rise (and the taste/sourness might vary). I've
not bought commercial yeast for a year now, all my bread is sourdough. Flour,
water, salt, those are all my bread contains...well, those and billions of
tiny fungi and bacteria.

I feel like once flour was invented sourdough was inevitable. Adding water to
ground up grain is an obvious move as it binds it and makes it easier to work
with. At some point a flour/water mix is going to be left standing and start
bubbling, and when cooked it's going to get magically bigger. Boom, bread.

I enjoyed the post, always glad to see anything bread related. Baking bread
has been a huge positive thing in my life, I'll never stop now (I was even
without an oven for a year and learned to bake bread in a cast iron pot on a
gas burner/hob). It's a rich sensory experience with all the smells and
textures, and working dough is very grounding and 'real'. Every loaf is
different and it's great fun waiting to see what's going to come out of the
oven. I'd massively recommend getting into bread!

~~~
SideburnsOfDoom
I would _strongly_ recommend getting a digital kitchen scale (cost is under
$30) and measuring water and flour in repeatable weights. A volume of flour is
just not a consistent weight - it can be packed loose or tight.

~~~
bonesss
That's very relevant for the bread-making process.

For starter feeding, though, I'm with the GP post: measuring all the time is a
PIA, and totally unnecessary. The margin of error is massive, after a few
measures you'll know the consistency to aim for, and if you're too stiff/wet
it's dead simple to compensate when baking.

Feeding by texture lets you get to know your starter better, follow its
rhythms, and makes daily feedings a very easy habit to maintain. We've been
pulling this off for 5,000 years without a digital scale :)

~~~
saalweachter
I think one of the biggest culture divides in baking is the "I love baking, it
is so scientific and exact" crowd versus the "Everything makes bread!" crowd.

I personally use the big measurements (flour, water, etc) as a rough guide so
that I'm in the right ballpark on consistency and don't need to add too much
one way or the other to get it right, and usually ignore the smaller
measurements entirely (salt, baking soda, cinnamon, vanilla ...) and pour what
looks like an appropriate amount in my hand before dumping it in the mix.
Fewer dishes to wash that way :-)

~~~
SideburnsOfDoom
> so that I'm in the right ballpark on consistency

You can get lack of consistency with an accurate scale, just always
experiment, e.g. vary a weight. That way you know what you did also get
_repeatability_ if you like the result.

> entirely (salt, baking soda, cinnamon, vanilla ...)

Sourdough bread famously has only 4 ingredients: flour, water, salt, yeast
(starter). Though that's not the whole story, there is also seeds, and more
than one kind of flour sometimes.

> pour what looks like an appropriate amount in my hand before dumping it in
> the mix. Fewer dishes to wash that way :-)

Measuring by weight is exactly the same, the mixing bowl is on the scale. pour
in until the right weight is reached.

------
cup-of-tea
Baking is a surprisingly geeky thing to do. While cooking is more about
knowing your ingredients and tasting as you go, baking absolutely requires
strict adherence to a recipe.

I can't actually remember why I started baking bread. But when I first started
the product was horrible. I would let the dough rise in a warm place and "make
it big" as quickly as possible. For me the rising was just about CO_2 so it
made sense. It took me a long time to realise that time is a crucial
ingredient. You want the rise to take more time, not less. The difference is
astonishing.

I never had much luck with sourdough but I actually prefer the taste of
"fresh" bread anyway in the French style. Sourdough is in fashion right now
but don't think using cultured yeast gives an inferior product!

~~~
Avshalom
>baking absolutely requires strict adherence to a recipe

nonsense every recipe you know of started life as some cook mixing crap until
"it seemed alright" before putting it in a an oven they gauged by hand, eye,
or by how long it took to cook some sacrificial dough/food. then eyeballing
the bread for when it was done.

Bread is especially forgiving, but this holds true for basically all baking
too. Even as goddamned finicky as filo or puff pastry can be, they still come
down to "yeah thats about right" far more than they do strict anything.

~~~
calinet6
All that eyeballing and intuition comes from experience, though, which is
experimentation and learning. That's a pretty geeky process in its own right.
And if you're in a commercial bakery, the process is down to a science, with
exact weights and temperatures and times. You can also do that at home, and if
you do, the results do come out better (or at least more consistent).

Bread has this nice property of being both forgiving and playful, as well as
highly optimizable with experimentation. Nice combo.

------
caublestone
A couple left academia to pursue their passion for cultures and turned their
treasures into a market:

[http://www.sourdo.com](http://www.sourdo.com)

Apparently they run into some sticky situations carrying dried yellowish brown
powder around in aluminum foil. In Saudi Arabia they were detained at the
airport for hours while authorities verified that the sketchy powder was in
fact mostly harmless yeast.

~~~
toredash
Mostly?

~~~
sjwright
Presumably the remainder was harmless non-yeast.

------
collyw
Would this have appeared here is it wasn't hosted on github?

Don't get me wrong, I am quite interested in fermentation (I make my own
sauerkraut for probiotics), but it seems strange for it to appear at number
one on the front page of HN.

~~~
ttsda
From the README:

>Learn how to master the art of baking the programmer way. If you love
programming, you will also enjoy breaking some bread. A/B test, iterate and
ultimately become a self taught baker. This repo is dedicated to becoming your
bread manifesto with useful tricks and hacks. Furthermore the goal is to
illustrate how easy making bread is and that you can get started today without
expensive tools.

------
nanomonkey
I suggest starting with fresh ground rye flour as it has more yeast on the
berries surface. If you can't grind it fresh yourself from rye berries, then
purchase something reasonably fresh like Bob's Red Mill. I consistently get a
new starter up and running in 4 days, after the fourth day I mix in other
(wheat) flour.

Second suggestion is to start with a smaller amount (say 15 grams) and feed
double whatever you have with each feeding (equal parts by weight flour and
water). Throw out some starter when the feedings get too much (remember you're
doubling each time).

The water should be left to dechlorinate in an open container overnight. I
have a pitcher with a cloth over it that I keep on a shelf for feedings and
making bread.

White flour and lower temperatures will slow down your starter activity
(useful at times). Whole grain flours and warmer temps will speed up your
starter activity.

------
irremediable
I've been getting into baking bread lately, so it's very cool to see an
article like this on HN.

That said, if you're new to baking, I wouldn't recommend this as a starting
point unless you strongly prefer sourdough to other breads. Sourdough is
trickier, and this recipe is quite minimalist: lots of ingredient ratios and
timings should actually vary with your ingredients, equipment and supposedly
even atmospheric conditions.

I'd recommend one of two loaves for fellow newbies: a bloomer or soda bread.

The bloomer requires more effort and time, and is a fun way to try out all the
basics of baking: kneading, yeast, proving, shaping. It'll give you a loaf
like the kind you're probably familiar with, albeit at a higher quality than
supermarket bread.

Soda bread is very easy to get good results from and very fast to bake. It
doesn't require kneading, and doesn't use yeast -- instead using bicarbonate
of soda and buttermilk. You can substitute buttermilk with anything milky and
acidic; I use soy milk mixed with lemon juice. This is a great way to get
quality bread with minimal effort, and you can make it sweet or savoury
according to your preferences.

I'll post some recipes later...

Edit: recipes in my reply to this comment.

~~~
irremediable
These Paul Hollywood recipes are a pretty good starting point. They don't
mention the buttermilk trick, but it's easy enough: squeeze half a lemon into
your milk.

The nice thing with Hollywood's bloomer recipe is that lots of people have
tried it, and share tips for debugging problems you may encounter.

Bloomer:
[https://www.bbc.com/food/recipes/paul_hollywoods_bloomer_846...](https://www.bbc.com/food/recipes/paul_hollywoods_bloomer_84636)

Soda bread:
[https://www.bbc.com/food/recipes/soda_bread_24837](https://www.bbc.com/food/recipes/soda_bread_24837)

------
bitL
Hey, how do I clone source code? All I get are some Markdown files :( I'd like
to compile and execute it quickly as I am hungry! Thanks!

~~~
hendricius
You can also speed up the process and have your bread ready in 1 hour. You
just have to kneed the dough way more. When I have guests I use my machine to
kneed the dough.

~~~
bitL
Where can I get a dough coprocessor? Can't see any on eBay :(

------
raintrees
My wife has kept a sourdough starter going for almost 3 years now, including
us being gone for 3 weeks - Fridge slows down/temporarily stops the process.

The extra that gets taken out each night during a feeding is now used to make
sourdough pancakes - Refrigerate then warm up when hungry.

I do not see baking temps mentioned, she uses cast iron dutch ovens with lids,
something like 15 minutes at 500 degrees, lid on, 15 minutes at 450 degrees
lid off, then another 30 or so minutes lid off at 400 degrees. Definitely
scored.

She is not available right now to correct me, so be careful if using these
steps. Many recipes vary, here is one that is close to what I vaguely
remember: [http://www.bakersandbest.com/2012/06/10/sourdough-so-
simple-...](http://www.bakersandbest.com/2012/06/10/sourdough-so-simple-a-
spartan-could-make-it/)

And she will use no other flour, just King Arthur Bread Flour. Although once
in a while she does mix in other types of King Arthur flour, such as Whole
Wheat or Rye.

YMMV

Edit: She corrected me: 20 minutes at 500 degrees lid on, 10 minutes at 450
degrees lid on, 15 minutes at 450 degrees lid off. And she said the rising
will break the bread unless scored (giving the rise a semi-controlled path).

When I see the biga being made, I know the next day is folding, and the
following day the house is going to smell wonderful. :)

------
nwatson
"As a baker it is your job to ensure that [the yeast and bacteria] feel happy
and enjoy their home."

... until you impose hell upon them in the form of an oven. That is one
awkward "light-hearted" sentence.

------
ktpsns
As a German, I appreciate this. I don't like the idea of nations, but in
cultural terms, bread is one of the best innovations in this country. I always
miss high quality bread when going to the US.

~~~
SideburnsOfDoom
It seems like places like the US and UK have swung between extremes: first a
long period when beer was nothing but bland macrobrew: Bud light, Heineken
etc, and then a growing counter-movement of artisanal craft beer.

Same with bread, Artisanal Craft Sourdough bread is a thing now.

------
nautilus12
"If you don't feed your mother dough it will starve eventually as it has no
more food." I read this out of context with hilarious interpretation.

------
sebular
Being a programmer who recently started making sourdough, this is nice to see.
But I have to admit that I clicked because I saw Github + sourdough and
thought that someone had coded an app to help you track weights and timing!

------
donjoe
My mom's been baking sourdough bread once a week since I can remember. We've
been a family of 6 killing at least a whole leaf a day. The awesome thing
about sourdough bread compared to yeast or yeast/sourdough based mixtures is
the ability to stay fresh for way longer. The neighbors would show up and ask
for a piece of the mother dough for their occasional bread-baking experiments.
While studying I really missed 'proper' bread - especially during my time
living abroad. I've been baking my own bread ever since, too :)

------
caffeine5150
I started making sourdough out of law school back in the late 90's when I got
Nancy Silverton's book on the topic (La Brea Bakery Founder). I baked bread
back then, but found it too exacting and inconsistent. I began again years
later after starting a family and almost every weekend we make the amazing
sourdough pancakes and waffles in Silverton's book. We maintain a starter
that's 60% water and 40% flour by weight. It stays in the fridge during the
week. We pull it out Friday morning, feed it midday and night and it's ready
to go in the morning a repeat for Sunday. Then it gets a small feeding and
goes back in the fridge. It can stay there for up to a few weeks. The pancakes
are excellent and light I believe because the yeast digests much of the flour.
You don't have that heavy feeling after eating them. The waffles are the best
I've had anywhere. I have a one-page spreadsheet that has the feeding recipe
and schedule for various batch sizes and the recipes for the waffles and
pancakes if anyone is interested. We also make kefir soda from water kefir
grains, which is really good. Naturally carbonated soda that's not too sweet
and is probiotic.

------
keithpeter
Nice guide.

I have tried a couple of sourdoughs but mine nearly always end up with a lot
of alcohol (acetone smell, bitter liquid). As OA says, you can just scrape the
liquid off the top and feed the sourdough to refresh it, but then the bread I
bake has a slight acetoney taste.

Suggestion: add a description of the sourdough after each day so people have a
rough idea if their sourdough is growing. The photo helps - you get a lot of
bubbles after around day 3 or 4 and the volume doubles.

~~~
bonesss
Fermentation goes through four phases, roughly paraphrased into: wheatey,
champagne, alcohol, vomit.

You're describing a starter that is too 'old'. Very 'young' starters have
little flavour, and then get sweet and honey-like before getting souuuuuur.
Personally I'd recommend just leaving it on the counter and going to a 24 hour
or 12 hour feeding schedule.

Flavour: you can absolutely scrape the bad stuff off the top and feed the
starter _to keep it alive_. But if you're going to bake, remember that you're
blending out the original product... If you start with some 'alcohol' or
'vomit' and mix out half, bread made the next day will be 33% bad-stuff. You
want to mix out for say a week or so to get back to mostly tastey happy stuff.

Also: not sure if this applies, but in general making a mature starter is a 5
week process from scratch. Bubbles in the first few days are generally bad
bacteria dying in the container you're using... You can still bake with it,
but keep going for a week and a half and see what kind of lovely smells start
coming :)

~~~
convolvatron
> If you start with some 'alcohol' or 'vomit'

I've always heard it called 'hooch', which I find really charming for some
reason.

------
bootsz
> Learn how to master the art of baking the programmer way. If you love
> programming, you will also enjoy breaking some bread.

As a hobbyist sourdough baker and professional software engineer I definitely
think there is some truth to this.

For me bread baking is a great complementary pursuit to programming. It is
entirely manual and rooted in the physical world, which makes it a great way
to "unplug" and decompress. But it also requires a similar type of analytical
skills and problem solving mindset that developers tend to have.

If you are interested in getting into baking sourdough I would highly
recommend this blog as a resource:

[https://www.theperfectloaf.com](https://www.theperfectloaf.com)

The tutorials and recipes are very beginner-friendly and have tons of hi-res
photos. I own about 6 books on bread baking but would say this site is
probably a better overall resource for a beginner. Interestingly, the author
of the site is himself also a software engineer. It definitely shows through
in the precision of his recipes :)

------
hourislate
Off on a tangent here but if your ever in Toronto, Canada and you like bread,
visit Dimpflmeier
[http://www.dimpflmeierbakery.com/](http://www.dimpflmeierbakery.com/) or
Future Bakery [https://www.futurebakery.com/](https://www.futurebakery.com/)
down the street. Both are Factory Bakeries open to the public and make some of
the best Sourdough Rye and bread I've ever had.

Wish we had something like this in TX...

------
notyourday
I'm surprised no one mentioned Alton Brown:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqxkMqsEQI0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqxkMqsEQI0)

------
DanAndersen
If anyone is looking for frugal yet meaningful gifts for Christmas, etc, I
found great success by making gifts of my sourdough starter to some close
friends and family. Some time beforehand, I started to split up and increase
the amount of starter I was growing, then printed little laminated labels with
instructions for feeding the starter (and an example recommended bread recipe
that was easy to make), and attached it to the mason jars in which I was
storing the starter.

------
mtrovo
I love this geek / hobbist way to approach cooking. Do you know any other
books / websites / youtube channels with the same format?

I enjoy watching French Guy Cooking [1] (he even has a video series about
making your own bread which is quite good) but never found other sources with
the same format.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/user/FrenchGuyCooking/featured](https://www.youtube.com/user/FrenchGuyCooking/featured)

~~~
poooogles
The modernist cuisine books might be up your street then.

[https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=modernist+cuisi...](https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=modernist+cuisine&tag=hydrukspg-21&index=aps&hvadid=186577499467&hvpos=1t1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13455683551674071624&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9045886&hvtargid=kwd-20138705597&ref=pd_sl_1g5h4lz830_e)

~~~
FredrikMeyer
He has now also written books about bread!
[https://www.amazon.co.uk/Modernist-Bread-Art-Science-
Cuisine...](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Modernist-Bread-Art-Science-
Cuisine/dp/0982761058/ref=la_B003TG79GU_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1524931038&sr=1-1)

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DrBazza
Not unrelated, yeast came from China apparently:

[https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0030-5](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0030-5)

[https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/04/yeast-
se...](https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/04/yeast-sequencing-
china/557930/)

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alpb
I am afraid your sourdough in the pictures is a bit unconventional. It did not
raise as much I expected. Did you use a Dutch oven?

Also some useful links:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/Breadit/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Breadit/)

[https://youtu.be/yg5nLQVg4VY](https://youtu.be/yg5nLQVg4VY)

------
th0ma5
Get some starter for the price of a stamp:
[http://carlsfriends.net/source.html](http://carlsfriends.net/source.html)

Or choose from many others for sale: [http://www.sourdo.com/our-sourdough-
cultures-2/](http://www.sourdo.com/our-sourdough-cultures-2/)

~~~
hendricius
You can also go to many local bakeries. Here in Germany the are happy to give
you some starter for free. But I still think making your own one is so easy,
it's 14 minutes of time over a week.

~~~
th0ma5
100% agree. Among my favorite things was growing a starter from scratch.

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gmac
If you're looking for some more guidance on how to bake the loaf itself, I've
been making bread in the following way several times a week for most of the
last seven years, and it is easily adapted to sourdough:
[http://mackerron.com/bread](http://mackerron.com/bread)

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slimbods
Nice article, thanks. Losing your starter can be painful as it takes at least
a week to build a new one. So it's good to have a backup; build a bit extra
then freeze it. Should you lose your starter, you can defrost the backup and
carry on right away. Especially handy if you go on holiday or can't bake for a
few weeks.

~~~
hendricius
Wouldn't freezing kill the bacteria and yeast?

~~~
seanhunter
It's pretty hardy and goes dormant. You only need a few alive to grow a
healthy starter back when you need it again, so every now and then I make an
extra amount, mix in a little more flour than normal, spread it in blobs on an
aluminium foil-covered baking tray and stick the whole thing in the freezer.
After a few hours I come back, pop them off the foil and into a freezer bag.

When reviving, I try to use two blobs from two separate bags just in case one
has died. I put them in tepid water for a bit, then add flour and mix and I'm
back in business.

My starter was given to me by Dan Lepard[1] (the end-boss of breadmaking)
during a sourdough masterclass that I was given as a present. I thoroughly
recommend this as a present if you have a friend or loved one who is
interested in making bread btw. It's fantastic and you get payback in tasty
loaves for many years.

[1][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Lepard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Lepard)

~~~
achamayou
If it's just a few weeks, I've found the fridge to be fine. It will take a
couple of feeds over 48h to re-activate completely, but it's otherwise ok.

If you start from scratch, you can get going in 3/4 days if you're willing to
throw in a bit of honey or maple syrup at first (1tsp). Without it, it does
seem to take a week.

------
mch82
How about that 122 year old sour dough starter mentioned in the recipe! The
starter has been passed between multiple families and across generations.

Is anyone familiar with starter? Would a unique flavor or anything like that
carry with the bread all those years?

------
haloboy777
I'm still trying to figure out how did something edible grabbed such attention
on HN??

------
gricardo99
Have to mention [http://www.sourdo.com](http://www.sourdo.com)

You can get cultures from all over the world.

But it’s also worth trying to start your own from scratch. As a complete noob
I had some great success.

------
sutterbomb
Anyone that’s interested in this and looking for a good short fiction read,
pick up Sourdough by Robin Sloan. It’s a fun little tale set in the Bay Area
about someone who picks up bread making as a hobby and things get weird.

------
exDM69
Excellent article!

We've been baking sourdough bread at home for about a year now. When the
starter is done, baking bread is a lot less work than when using yeast. The
work is spread over a few days but there are no laborious processes involved.

~~~
hendricius
Exactly. This strategy has been used by people since we first invented bread.
I always think we should use it, it's ready for the taking.

------
nkkollaw
I make this often to make żurek--a Polish soup.

Basically, instead of putting it into bread you add it to a broth with
sausages, bring it to a boil for two minutes or until it gets dense, and it's
ready.

One of my favorite.

------
Qantourisc
My brain seems to recall you want to keep your sourdough for 2 weeks before
using it, to make sure there are no harmful strains left in your culture. But
I cannot find the resource atm.

------
eps
Wait, wait... there's no salt in the sourdough?

~~~
cup-of-tea
No mention of salt in whole page. That is a huge omission. It's not even bread
without salt. If you follow this recipe it will taste awful. Use salt if you
want your bread to be like bakery bread. And there is no "salt to taste" in
baking. 10g per 500g of flour is a good start but the point you add it is
important so check a proper recipe.

~~~
hendricius
No salt at all in the sour dough. When baking you will add salt. I like around
2%. But in the mother sour dough you do not want any salt. This link is only
about how to get your actual mother sour dough, not baking! That's still TODO
and will follow up later.

Edit:

2% of the flour's weight in salt. Let's say you bake 700 grams of flour (500
grams flour, 200 grams sour dough) then you would add 14 grams of salt. Note
please that this is my personal preference. It could be you prefer more or
less salt.

~~~
slow_donkey
2% bp not total weight. Should probably clarify since this isn't a baking
audience

~~~
acqq
> 2% bp not total weight.

Where bp stands for... what?

> Should probably clarify since this isn't a baking audience.

Yes please.

~~~
malhotrag
bp => Baker's Percentage
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker_percentage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker_percentage)

------
punnerud
Been thinking about an automatic machine to make bread this way. Everything
you need is flour, water and power if you have the machine.

~~~
hendricius
Yes, but it is really to to have one machine to rule them all. It also depends
on each flour you are using. The machine would work better in some countries
than others.

------
antoineMoPa
Cooking/Making bread is fun like coding, except that its tastier and will
still bake if you make tiny mistakes.

------
yumraj
For those in the US which flour do you typically use?

Anyone had any success with whole wheat sourdough, and is so with which flour?

------
poulsbohemian
Nicely done, excellent pictures.

~~~
hendricius
Thanks. I usually do the baking, my fiancee does the pictures :D. I love to
bake and a/b test the different doughs.

------
pomosly
Good Amount of Alcohol - What Quantity are we talking about here?

------
tclancy
Tempted to file a bug report that simply reads, “Bacteria”.

