
Petition the U.S. Government to Force the TSA to Follow the Law - thoughtsimple
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/07/petition_the_us.html
======
user49598
We all realize that there is no direct measurable effect on government from
signing these petitions. And we also realize that signing these petitions and
then taking no further action does not make you a hero.

But for god's sake, stop posting about how they're useless every time someone
starts talking about one. First off, we get it, some people think they're
painfully useless. Second off, just because you can't see any direct effect,
or just because the effect wasn't exactly what you wanted it to be, doesn't
make them useless. They are a good tool for rallying support behind an idea.
They are a good tool for spreading awareness. They are a good tool for getting
a cause a little bit of noticeably. They are a good tool for collecting
thoughts in a coherent matter so they may be further discussed.

TLDR: We get it. You don't get petitions. Please figure it out or stop
complaining. You're not helping a goddamn thing.

~~~
rhizome
I speak up and say they're bad because I think signing these petitions uses up
what little political activity the typical citizen is willing to exert. If
they sign this, they're goign to be less likely to pressure their
representatives directly, which, as we've seen from lobbyists, is the only way
to get anything done.

~~~
aneth4
On the other hand, these petitions spread awareness to far more people,
educate them to start researching, and may instigate further action and
discussion.

You say that his is "using up" what little people are willing to do... (and
what are you doing?) Being against a small step in favor of an unstated big
step does not make you a hero.

~~~
rhizome
_educate them to start researching, and may instigate further action and
discussion._

In my experience, this is a highly optimistic prediction.

------
warfangle
I predict it will end up just like every other "successful" petition on
whitehouse.gov:

"We hear you, but you're wrong and we aren't going to change a damn thing."

~~~
jeremyarussell
The SOPA petition got Obama to publicly say he would veto anything that is
overly broad, without due process and threatens the nations security (the DNS
stuff in it). Soon afterwords they dropped it.

Albeit they made a new differently named one later, but still I don't think
the situation is quite so hopeless.

Edit: fixed the spelling of publicly.

~~~
TillE
Was that a change, or just a press release clarifying his existing position on
the issue? Cause I'm betting the latter.

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true_religion
Well if you have standing, take them back into court (you know, the place
where the government is actually willing to listen to you). Petitions are
meaningless.

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blhack
None of this matters. Look at the response we got to "Legalize and regulate
marijuana in a manner similar to alcohol"

[https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/response/what-we-have-
say-a...](https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/response/what-we-have-say-about-
legalizing-marijuana)

------
nhebb
Let's face it, the only petition that will make a difference is the big one on
November 6th. I'm amazed the TSA's policies and practices have not become a
campaign issue. If you care about this, then petition the candidates to take a
stance for civil liberties.

~~~
ben0x539
ok i'll make sure to vote for the candidate that has a reasonable anti anti-
terror terror policy

~~~
rhizome
Vote for "someone else" and don't buy into the two-party system. Our votes are
basically ineffectual anyway.

~~~
jmspring
"Our votes are basically ineffectual anyway."

That sentiment was quite prominent in 2000 during the Bush / Gore election. A
lot of people voted for Nader hoping to legitimize a third party on the
ballot. The common thinking was Gore and Bush were no different.

Given how world events unfolded, that view (in hindsight) was probably a
pretty dumb one.

~~~
rhizome
No, they _are_ ineffectual, period. Read up on the Electoral College, who
doesn't have to follow the popular vote at all if they don't want to.

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sp332
Doesn't the court itself have some power to enforce its mandates?

~~~
tylermenezes
Not usually.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers#United_Sta...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers#United_States)

------
chx
If you want change with the TSA first figure out what a politican can say when
(s)he will be attacked for being soft on terrorists cos that's what's going to
be happen if anyone tries to reform the TSA.

~~~
jonhohle
Simple - they are defending your civil liberties and they won't let terrorists
destroy the freedoms we are granted by the constitution. They can also say
that they won't continue increasing debt further through ineffective,
unproven, and personally violating policies.

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Bruce_Adams
Attempting to login to <https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/> is very slow and
eventually gives an error message:

Our Apologies....

The site is currently undergoing maintenance. We appreciate your patience
while we make some improvements.

Please check back soon.

~~~
boonedocks
I got this informative error message: "Additional uncaught exception thrown
while handling exception."

------
kfinley
Looks like <https://petitions.whitehouse.gov> is using MongoDB

    
    
      Additional uncaught exception thrown while handling exception.
    
      Original
      MongoCursorException: couldn&#039;t send command in Mongo->__construct() (line 35 of /mnt/codebase/petition-release-2012-07-11/sites/all/modules/contrib/mongodb/mongodb.module).
    
      Additional
      MongoCursorTimeoutException: cursor timed out (timeout: 30000, time left: 0:0, status: 0) in MongoCollection->findOne() (line 22 of /mnt/codebase/petition-release-2012-07-11/sites/all/modules/contrib/mongodb/mongodb_cache/mongodb_cache.inc).
    

_Edit: The page is loading correctly now._

~~~
jaytaylor
And..

''' Our Apologies....

The site is currently undergoing maintenance. We appreciate your patience
while we make some improvements. Please check back soon. '''

Not so web-scale after all (at least not the way the whitehouse has configured
it.)

I bet it's probably on the default setting where it starts dropping writes if
it becomes overwhelmed.

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amurmann
Apparently the White House petition page uses Mongo and has no dedicated 500
side. I am sure the tax payer paid many millions for this

"Additional uncaught exception thrown while handling exception.

Original

MongoCursorException: couldn&#039;t send query:  in Mongo->__construct()
(line 35 of /mnt/codebase/petition-
release-2012-07-11/sites/all/modules/contrib/mongodb/mongodb.module).

Additional

MongoCursorException: couldn&#039;t determine master in
MongoCollection->findOne() (line 22 of /mnt/codebase/petition-
release-2012-07-11/sites/all/modules/contrib/mongodb/mongodb_cache/mongodb_cache.inc)."

------
sneak
...because the fact that they simply ignore the law presently means that a
petition will make them willfully start following it.

Delusional. It's time to leave America.

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shashashasha
Are any of you seeing a lot of duplicate Signature #'s? <http://o7.no/NhQtfu>

~~~
essayist
The duplicates indicate a kind of tie. What I've noticed before are sequences
like 100,101,101,103, suggesting that the two middle signatures happened at
more or less the same time.

5704, 5705, 5705, 5708 is a little odd - there should be a third 5705, or a
5707.

More: [http://citizentools.netalyst.com/2012/liberating-
signatures-...](http://citizentools.netalyst.com/2012/liberating-signatures-
from-white-house-petitions-a-new-tool-for-activists)

------
J3L2404
Are there petitions for poverty and healthcare somewhere?

