
Tips for moving into management [audio] - venturis_voice
http://www.venturi-group.com/podcast/moving-into-management/
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alexandercrohde
My tip - don't. It's a demotion.

The lowest-level manager has significantly more accountability than anybody
else (i.e. most likely to be fired without 8 months notice a director would
get) with few upsides (lower pay per hour of work, worse career trajectory,
greater stress, will be forbidden from having negative opinions about anything
the company does, more likely to be scapegoated for a boss's mistake).

See the Gervais principle: [https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-
principle-...](https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-
the-office-according-to-the-office/)

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angarg12
I find this GDC talk more concise and comprehensive, on the same topic:

So They Made You a Lead, Now What?

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z98rF3bllao](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z98rF3bllao)

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nimbius
this feels incredibly familiar. either youre promoted to a lead, given no
training, and fired or demoted when you dont succeed, or you're slowly just
"recognized" as the lead without any overt assertion from management. The
latter is the worst, because after a few month or even a year there is a tacit
communal agreement among leadership that you're secretly the lead without ever
defining what that is. pretty soon you're charged with everything from random
powerpoint presentations to some midlevel managers incident/action reports
with no real idea why its happening other than you're a 'subject matter
expert.'

It has a scarring effect ive found, anecdotally. Ive spent 12 years as a
systems administrator in various contexts (traditional, devops, contract,
etc..) and I've already declined a leadership role on the pretext that its
just going to be system administration with the expectation with added
clerical ditch-digging for the real management team.

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make3
"you're slowly just "recognized" as the lead without any overt assertion from
management" can't you just ask for official recognition or find a new job that
is a better fit for what you actually do? there are billions of jobs in
software, if you have the skills to should be able to do so

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Sammi
A well run organization should also be mandating regular bi annual meetings
between employees and managers for goal setting. Both as an employer and as an
employee you want to know what each others expectations are, so you should be
following up on this continually. It's crucial for job satisfaction on both
ends.

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33W
I think you may have meant semi-annual (every 6 months). In my opinion, every
3 to 6 months is a good checkpoint for a more formal evaluation, but that
ongoing communication should take place through regular meetings every 1-2
weeks.

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Sammi
Yes :)

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chasd00
i haven't listened to this but will at lunch for sure. I'm in the process of
making the switch to management after accepting a new role around last Nov.
It's painful, one of the hardest parts for me is knowing when I've had a good
day or bad day, there's not a good measure, things are very subjective. The
mentoring and leadership aspect of management I've really taken to and didn't
expect to enjoy so much. Pairing up a Sr. and Jr. dev and watching the Jr. dev
bloom and the Sr. dev become a better communicator, to the point i've put them
in front of a client, has been the highlight so far.

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mrlyc
When I moved from programming into management, the hardest thing I found was
to change from flow-driven work to interrupt-driven work. I started with the
golden rule: "Manage people the way you would like to be managed." That lasted
about ten minutes. I changed it to "Manage people the way they want to be
managed" which was much more succesful.

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bane
To me the hardest part of moving into management from engineering came with
the realization that "accomplishment" is a much squishier thing. Almost every
action as a manager ends up as a compromise across several different very
soft-skills variables.

Recognizing the core of what matters and not getting hung up on other
distractions seems to be the difference between success and failure. I don't
focus on my career at all and have found that it usually takes care of itself
so long as I don't bypass any opportunities.

Here's my checklist I use to see if I'm doing a good job (by my own measure),
and these are not in order of priority but must be balanced simultaneously:

\- put your staff first, leadership is a service function

\- ship, on time, and within budget -- exceed expectations

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33W
I'll be soon transitioning from a team lead to manager (with a new company).
Can anyone add any recommendation to my list of resources?

Books: Peopleware, 5 dysfunctions of a team, Ziglar's Top Performance,
Pragmatic Programmer (and others, but these are the top ones)

Websites: askamanager.org, Joel on Software

Podcasts: HBR ideacast

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Spooky23
High Output Management by Andy Grove. Read that book and the “First Break All
the Rules” book mentions ones elsewhere. Most of the rest is duplicative or
crap.

Also, just be you. People see potential in you and how you work. Don’t
surrender your soul to management books — management is like organization,
there’s lots of “management porn” that makes it easy to procrastinate through
reading. Most of the guidance you see is ego-driven and conflicting.

The indirect thing you should consider working on that was hard for me and
many other tech people is networking and relationship building. I’m at a
director level position now, and my ability to pick up the phone and have
someone do something is an increasingly important part of my job. Making that
happen is time and work.

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33W
Thanks for the advice. I love to take in new information, but try to make sure
I'm thinking critically about what I'm learning.

I'm moving from a large organization to a smaller one, by an order of
magnitude or more, so I'm looking forward to having the ability to know
everyone on some level and be able to reach out directly when needed.

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laurieg
It's there a path into management without being a developer first?

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dagw
Going back to school and getting an MBA seems to work for a lot of people.

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hycaria
It's better when a company endorses you for an MBA...

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jcadam
I worked for a large company that paid for my MBA, and then I was caught up in
a mass layoff immediately after graduating. Strange. Still working as an
individual contributor Software Engineer (albeit a well paid one) all these
years later. Can't seem to land a lead position.

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toomuchtodo
> Can't seem to land a lead position.

Keep trying.

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jcadam
I've known people who were promoted only when they threatened to quit. One was
a relatively new hire - I couldn't believe it worked in her case (who demands
a promotion/raise after 2 months on the job)?

Hmm....

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dagw
One thing I've learned far too late in my career is that it's amazing what you
can actually get if you just go up to the right person and say you want it.

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ramijames
How about tips for not moving to management? I like being a developer. I do
not like people and I do not want to manage anyone.

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eb0la
Your only option is to always work for a company that _builds_ products.

Consultancies are not an option: they depend on buying cheap man-hours and
selling then for a profit. As you age, your monetary need will increase and
consultancies won't be willing to pay you more... unless you become a manager.

Product-builders are less shy to pay better wages for two reasons: 1) They
dilute their wage expenses into a lot of customers and 2) They assume you're a
good hire both for them and the competition, so hiring you means getting some
leverage against competitors.

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ska

       unless you become a manager.
    

Or a specialist with compelling skills.

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sidlls
All that does is raise the ceiling slightly. The number of specialists with
compelling skills earning much more than typical ICs is dwarfed by the number
of senior directors, VPs and C-suites earning as much or more as the
specialist can.

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ska
Sure, but there is nothing wrong with that.

Most developers, say, do not have any career path that ends them up in the
C-suite, so holding that up as a comparison isn't very useful.

If you finish out your career as a middle manager or a technical specialist,
it looks much more similar. It's a path to consider for many people, but
realize there are far fewer opportunities (and less lateral mobility).

