
Antibiotics in Meat Could Be Damaging Our Guts - rrauenza
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/25/opinion/sunday/meat-antibiotics-organic-farming.html
======
xyzzy_plugh
Some FUD, but farmers definitely abuse antibiotics. But of course they do,
since they buy them in bulk at the store.

I have a lot of veterinarian friends, and the fact of the matter is farmers
purchase antibiotics like any other supplies. Farmers get to skirt the process
most other animal owners go through, and in most states and jurisdictions
don't need to go through a licensed veterinarian to obtain antibiotics.

Most veterinarians I know think it's ridiculous, and causes more harm than
good. But farmers have lobbied for these freedoms. Many veterinarian friends
complain that many farmers are entitled, and feel that they should be able to
do whatever they want with their herd.

If you ask me, Farming is one profession that needs to have stronger
regulations that are actually enforced e.g. antibiotics, humane treatment,
etc.

It's a grey area for sure -- do I let my sick animals suffer so I can sell
them? Or do I give them medicine that makes them ineligible for certain
consumption categories.

~~~
madhadron
> do I let my sick animals suffer so I can sell them?

This isn't what the antibiotics are for. They increase growth. We don't know
why.

It is also a giant source of antibiotic resistance, which is why it should be
illegal, much less the disruption of your gut microbiota from consuming
antibiotics.

~~~
aldoushuxley001
> This isn't what the antibiotics are for. They increase growth. We don't know
> why.

Do you have a source for this? Sounds very interesting if true

~~~
aviv
Seriously this trend on HN to knee jerk react with "do you have sources for
xyz" needs to stop. Googling it in 5 seconds will give you plenty of sources.
Do your own research.

~~~
ouid
Aviv isn't just telling you not to be lazy. The observations that someone
includes when they are trying to confirm their hypothesis are scientifically
meaningless. Observations are only valid when they are made with good faith
effort to discredit the hypothesis. This includes the meta-observations of
going out and finding studies on the internet.

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ouid
We give antibiotics to cattle to get them to absorb more energy from grain and
get fat.

We eat those antibiotics.

We eat grain and get fat.

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Havoc
One of the reasons why I'm trying to cut down meat consumption. Evidence seems
to be mounting that it's not the greatest plan...

~~~
coldtea
I don't think regular plants with all kinds of pesticides, or GMO plants with
all kinds of non-long-term-tested gene modifications to improve sale-ability
and profit margins, would be much better...

~~~
kranner
So buy organic. And I’m guessing any GMO plants will be much safer than
antibiotic-laced alternatives.

~~~
TangoTrotFox
Given the strong congressional lobby against labeling, organic doesn't mean
much in and of itself. The problem with genetically engineered foodstuffs is
not necessarily the foodstuff itself but that in practice it's mostly
synonymous with herbicide resistance. And that herbicide is mostly synonymous
with glyphosate which is looking to also be really screwing with our gut biome
on top of being a probable carcinogen. On the topic of glyphosate there was an
interesting submission here [1].

[1] -
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17043629](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17043629)

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open-source-ux
This 2011 chart shows antibiotic use in livestock in countries around the
world, including New Zealand, the US and the EU. The use of antibiotics varies
hugely between countries. If anyone has more recent figures, please post:

[https://amr-review.org/sites/default/files/Info%204%20bar%20...](https://amr-
review.org/sites/default/files/Info%204%20bar%20chart%20white.jpg)

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JeanMarcS
And what about antibiotic résistance for human induced by that ?

We ask out doctors to try to avoid giving antibiotics if it can be avoided,
but there are sole cases where animals are massively dosed with it.

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always_good
I wonder what the perfect diet ends up being once you consider things like
antibiotics, heavy metals, pesticides, and other contaminants and not just
macro/micro nutrition.

~~~
vegcel
The answer is most definitely a whole food plant-based diet.

See the book How Not to Die for more here: [https://www.amazon.com/How-Not-
Die-Discover-Scientifically/d...](https://www.amazon.com/How-Not-Die-Discover-
Scientifically/dp/1250066115)

~~~
StriverGuy
I would reword plant-based to be plant-centric. Vegan/Vegetarian diets have
many many issues (xenoestrogen, B12 deficiency, reduced sex hormone levels
just to name a few) and are not a normal consumption pattern for genetic
omnivores like us humans.

~~~
mabase
And most of those are actually misinformation. B12 being the only real one,
but that isn't an issue because you can just supplement it. The B12 from meat
comes from supplements anyways, so there is no difference. Just cutting out
the middleman.

~~~
shafyy
Exactly this. It's mind-blowing what kind of questions my well-educated ask
about being a vegetarian. "Where do you get proteins from?" or "What about
iron?". Really?!

The only real thing missing is B12 and of that the body needs so tiny amounts
that every idiot can supplement it easily.

~~~
noir_lord
Not a vegan but B12 is easy to get (I have Crohns and B12 deficiency is fairly
common), 1 energy drink is ~250% of RDA (They are stuffed with it).

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chiefalchemist
We use unnatural tricks to lower the cost of production, the production of a
luxury (read: not a necessity at the levels being consumed) that is very
natural resources intensive to produce; to say nothing of the pollution
produced by production.

The lower cost increases consumption; using more resources, producing more
pollution. That is contributing to health issues in those who consume it. The
lower peoduction coat is eaten up by medical coats.

It sounds like a terrorist plot.

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qrbLPHiKpiux
I'll say it, although this isn't popular.

The world has too many people. We had to engineer our food supply to keep up
with what is needed to feed everyone.

~~~
jobigoud
> We had to engineer our food supply to keep up with what is _needed_ to feed
> everyone.

Nah, not _needed_. It's only because people eat so much meat.

~~~
Noumenon72
However, meat is a complement to vegetables because it restores what they take
out of the soil, so it's not as inefficient as it seems.

[https://twitter.com/SarahTaber_bww/status/993309884711129088](https://twitter.com/SarahTaber_bww/status/993309884711129088)

~~~
fjsolwmv
Where do cows get their nutrients from?

~~~
Noumenon72
I guess what she's saying must only apply to grass fed.

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viburnum
What do you mean "our?"

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coldseattle
I'm more worried about the Disease Resistant Bacteria than a blanket claim
from a grass-fed organic beef producer that it's causing obesity, etc.

Perhaps he figures that "causes obesity" would get more people concerned that
about the risks of resistant infections.

