
Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back - mgh2
https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/27/as-chromebook-sales-soar-in-schools-apple-and-microsoft-fight-back/
======
OliverJones
I volunteer in an after-school supplemental program for kiddos in public
housing. Three years ago we scared up a grant to buy four iPads to help the
kids do their homework.

Then a local teacher intervened and said, no, no, no, get Chromebooks. We did.
We got six for the same money. They're compatible with the local school IT
systems. They reset themselves when somebody logs off, so we don't have to
worry about what the kids install on them.

THEY HAVE KEYBOARDS! Kids can use them to for written-word assignments without
futzing around with the onscreen keyboards.

They aren't quite as game-focused as the iPads. That means we get less
squabbling over who gets to use them and for what. (I've taken to leaving my
iPad at home because it's an attractive nuisance.)

They're cheap enough that it's not the end of the world if one gets damaged.

The chromebooks are a big win for us and the kids we serve.

~~~
Fiahil
I hope you will find something equally good when Google decide to discontinue
the OS.

~~~
dannyr
Looks like you're still pissed at Google for shutting down Google Reader.

~~~
r00fus
And Fiber rollouts and Wave and XMPP and a whole host [1] of other things it
committed to... My favorite unfortunately-named one was Google Keep.

[1]
[https://www.gwern.net/Google%20shutdowns](https://www.gwern.net/Google%20shutdowns)

~~~
LordDragonfang
As far as I can tell, that article doesn't actually name Google Keep as being
shut down, and was in fact written shortly after Keep was released. Which is a
relief, since Keep is exactly what I want from a notes app.

~~~
gwern
Yes, as far as I could tell then in 2013 (or now), Keep was alive. Given that
it had just been released (and a sarcastic article on it was actually part of
my impetus for that analysis), the survival model only gave it a 61% chance of
surviving until 2018. As it's almost 2018 now and Keep is alive, that suggests
(on purely statistical grounds) it has a better chance of sticking around for
a while.

------
bradleyjg
I work in EdTech. I never thought the ipad ever made sense in the classroom
and I'm not surprised that a netbook is beating back the tablet.

Input onto a tablet is clumsy at best. It is essentially a passive device.
Yes, you can add an aftermarket keyboard and and an after market stand, but
now you have a three part hacked together netbook instead of one that's
designed with a keyboard and hinge from the get-go.

Further, tablets are a magnet for damage. A laptop screen can take localized
damage and still mostly work. A tabket screen shatters. Plus the laptop screen
is set back within the monitor component and the overall center of gravity
means that a netbook is more likely to land on the keyboard side.

Finally, the software story is best for windows (web and native plus great
management features), decent for chromebook, and worst for ipads.

~~~
djhworld
Even outside of education, I don't think the iPad is useful for anything other
than consumption.

I've seen some creative types using drawing applications on it, which is cool
I guess, but for the most part I don't see it replacing a laptop/desktop just
yet.

~~~
ams6110
My kids school district got iPads for all the students. Then they selected a
math textbook that didn't work on the iPad.

I'm pretty convinced that the motivations for providing iPads or laptops for
each student are almost entirely political and not educational.

~~~
yardie
Our child has one website that uses flash. I've removed flash from all our
other computers except the one computer locked down to use just that.

How a school, and vendor, get away with requiring flash in 2017 is beyond
frustrating.

~~~
bleachedsleet
School's online systems tend to be woefully behind the times. Usually online
portals and e-textbooks are little more than patronizing nods to the students
that have come to accept tech in their lives as a necessity rather than any
meaningful attempt at bettering education.

------
analog31
My kids are both in high school right now. My observation is that they are
largely platform agnostic. Of course the browser runs on any platform. That's
their "terminal" for everything. They use Google Docs on whatever computer
they're sitting at, and have figured out its collaborative features.

Just a few years ago it was very important for them to have a computer with
the latest version of Office installed on it -- one for every kid in case they
both got assignments at the same time -- but the teachers are now largely
comfortable with Google Docs or Whatever. That 3-user Office 2010 license is
probably my last commercial software purchase ever.

So it seems that the choice of platform is something that the grown ups worry
about, but it doesn't affect the kids at all. Their school seems to have gone
with Chromebooks.

~~~
Roboprog
Thank God this finally happened.

About 8 or 10 years ago, my older daughters insisted that OpenOffice wasn't a
"real" word processor, since it didn't look like MS Office on XP, and we were
then running Ubuntu at home (since switched to OSX, but whatever...). Then one
year, the school got "Vistafied", and the whole UI they were used to got
scrambled. At that point, their eyes were opened, and they stopped complaining
about the system at home being "different", as well as having to pay attention
to using a compatible format, since MS graciously made them painfully aware of
all that, anyway.

They are now pretty used to doing stuff on the net/cloud, with whatever
disposable device/UI is around that year.

~~~
jpttsn
Sure. But the web app UX is clunky; it wouldn't be acceptable to have a
desktop word processor with Google Docs' quality. It's a little sad if this is
where the bar is set for kids, all in the name of cross-platform.

~~~
analog31
Indeed, what people are willing to give up in terms of UX, in return for other
benefits (including cost), is something that continues to surprise the
development community.

From what I've observed, just watching what the kids do, it seems that
function trumps form. What Google Docs does for them is provide access to
their documents anywhere, and by anybody within their collaborative group.
They don't need a lot of the typesetting features provided by MS Office -- if
they can't express something in one way, they find another way to express it.

It's only been recently, that we can test whether people are willing to give
up UX, because MS Office had the same UX at all of its price tiers. For the
same general functionality -- typesetting -- folks weren't willing to put up
with the UX of Libre Office, which was clunky in its own way. So I suspect
that what Google Docs offers is based on function and not price.

------
TazeTSchnitzel
Apple seem to be in the same state of denial now that Microsoft were when
Windows 8 came out. They believe touch-screen tablets are the future, and the
way computing should be done, and ignore the desktop and laptop paradigm works
much better for getting work done for a lot of people.

Microsoft realised their mistake and came out with Windows 10, which works
well across both tablets and desktops/laptops. Apple seem to have doubled-
down. The future looks prettier for the former.

~~~
SomeStupidPoint
There's just no real replacement for a keyboard and mouse.

And if I'm using those, why wouldn't I want a laptop?

~~~
cptskippy
The opposite is also true. Keyboards and mice are no replacement for a touch
screen. I have a laptop with all three and I love it.

~~~
michaelmrose
Actually mice/touchpad are a direct replacement that doesn't require you to
hold your hand up awkwardly or get nasty fingerprints on your screen. The only
things touch does better is allow gestures which could be input on your
touchpad instead of directly on the screen.

Of course its useful on convertable tablets that can be used in tablet
orientation.

~~~
delecti
Have you used a laptop with a touchscreen? Because I thought the same way you
seem to until I did. A decade of getting used to touchscreen phones and
tablets has made it feel really natural to interact directly with a screen.
It's not world changing, but that extra input stream is a very pleasant
addition, and sometimes it's just more natural to tap the screen directly.

~~~
300bps
_Have you used a laptop with a touchscreen?_

I have for about 18 months and I never use the touch screen functionality. In
fact the only time it ever gets used is when someone else tries to point at
something on my screen and of course that causes a click and they awkwardly
say, "Sorry, I didn't know it was a touch screen."

------
was_boring
I'm not a kid in school, but a highly paid software engineer and I have gone
with a Chromebook. It does what I do, surf the internet and for 10+ hours on a
single charge. When I want to do some programming, I just ssh into my several-
year-old Linux desktop and use tmux + vim.

If ChromeOS opened up its Linux internals without using the crouton hack, it
would destroy every other platform out there.

~~~
danieldk
For a little more, you can get a Windows laptop that runs Office, Adobe Suite
and a full Ubuntu environment per Windows Subsystem for Linux.

(I am a Mac user, but Windows + WSL would probably be my first choice after a
Mac. Especially if Microsoft would stop spying on their users.)

~~~
UnoriginalGuy
And 3 hours of battery life.

There are Windows Laptops with good 10+ hour battery life (e.g. Thinkpads).
But they aren't a "little more" they're $1K+. Chromebooks are around $250-400.

~~~
JohnTHaller
You haven't looked at Windows laptops in a long time. You can get a 15" 1080p
laptop with 8gb of ram and a 256gb SSD that gets 10+ hours of battery life for
just north of $500 now.

Here's an example with all that plus a dedicated graphics card for $549:
[https://www.amazon.com/Acer-Aspire-E5-575G-53VG-15-6-Inch-
Wi...](https://www.amazon.com/Acer-Aspire-E5-575G-53VG-15-6-Inch-
Windows/dp/B01DT4A2R4)

Or without the dedicated graphics for $470:
[https://m.newegg.com/products/N82E16834315779](https://m.newegg.com/products/N82E16834315779)

~~~
VLM
If its OK to play the "why not double the price" game then at $500 you're
getting close to why not get a mac laptop for $1K?

~~~
JohnTHaller
It's a direct response to this incorrect claim: "There are Windows Laptops
with good 10+ hour battery life (e.g. Thinkpads). But they aren't a "little
more" they're $1K+"

They aren't $1k+. They're literally a little more than the $400 Chromebook.

~~~
jdietrich
You can buy a perfectly usable Chromebook for $170.

[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019G7VPTC/](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019G7VPTC/)

~~~
JohnTHaller
With a low resolution 720p screen and only 2GB of RAM and less than 10 hours
of battery life. You can buy a similarly equipped Windows laptop for $199 or
less, or with a more usable 4GB of RAM and 32GB of storage for 30 bucks more.
Of course there are both lower end Chromebooks and Windows laptops, but
they're really beside the point to what's being discussed.

~~~
dwaxe
Windows is much slower on such a low spec device than ChromeOS. And if you
install anything on your Windows device, god help your loading times.

~~~
voltagex_
Even low end devices are shipping with SSDs now. The last time Windows 10 was
slow for me it was either because it was still on a 5400RPM drive (brand new
$900AUD PC from a retailer...) or because Intel had tricked a whole lot of
ODMs into thinking the Z series Atoms were desktop processors rather than for
mid-range smartphones.

~~~
JohnTHaller
In fairness, the low-end $200 laptops have emmc storage, which isn't what
consumers think of as SSD. Yes it is solid state and faster than a hard drive.
But it's not typical SSD performance like you get on the $400+ laptops.

~~~
voltagex_
True - and it's really hard to judge eMMC performance because of high
variability between models/brands.

~~~
JohnTHaller
eMMC 5.1 (introduced in Jan 2015) has read speeds up to 250 MB/s and write
speeds up to 125 MB/s. They're _much_ faster than the earlier eMMC chips, as
well as laptop hard drives. Sadly, the early slow chips kind of gave them a
bad reputation. They're perfectly workable now for a low-end machine.

------
RcouF1uZ4gsC
I am actually sad how schools are going to locked down, consumption based
hardware. How many people here got their start in computers by messing with
school computers to make them do new things? Now, the computer is just a
"magic" locked black box to do homework on.

~~~
scott00
Nothing makes teenagers want to do something so badly as being told they
can't. Attempting to bypass school computer security was one of my earliest
forays into understanding computers.

~~~
danieldk
_Nothing makes teenagers want to do something so badly as being told they can
't._

Not only teenagers. I was 7 or 8 (~1990) when my dad told me not to use our
home PC without his supervision and under no circumstances should I start
Norton Commander. The next day when he was at work, I booted the PC, started
Norton Commander (I observed that he typed 'nc'), and tried every possible
function that I could find ;).

~~~
xj9
same. we had a lot of content restrictions on my home network growing up, so i
learned about tor and isolinux to get past them. tor was actually overkill in
this case, but it was still fun.

------
tootie
I have 2 iPads that I inherited. They are used 99% for watching videos.
Expensive portable streaming TVs. My daughter practices typing and coding on
her Chromebook. Paid $180 >2 years ago and it works perfectly.

~~~
pryelluw
Have you installed crouton? Check it out if not. Allows you to run a linux
distro on a browser tab. Super useful.

~~~
Niten
It also defeats the very purpose of a Chromebook, which is practically
bulletproof, worry-free security.

If you really need a full-fledged Unix system (as I do), IMO it's best to run
that on dedicated hardware and SSH in from a secure Chromebook. But I'm not
sure what a student like the parent's daughter would gain from putting their
Chromebook into developer mode, aside from a newfound susceptibility to
malware.

------
jarvuschris
Apple had an amazing product for schools and was dominating one-to-one laptop
programs with their highly-repairable white plastic macbooks. And then they
discontinued them to push iPads and the far-pricier macbook pros. Apple
willingly jettisoned the school market to focus on consumers

~~~
rcarmo
Well, that was what we saw from outside. I'm partial to the notion that they
actually believed they were going to have a broader appeal with iPads.

However, as a parent and as a long-time Apple user, I think they are
completely incompetent at multi-user scenarios in general - Classroom 2.0 is
"cute" but impractical in the few times I tried to help teachers to use it,
iPad multi-user is nowhere to be seen in practice, and the price points are
completely outrageous (my kids' school uses iPads).

To add insult to injury, parental control is also MIA (tangent, I know, but
relevant in the overall picture).

Chromebooks walk all over that - they're cheaper, have pretty decent unified
management (not really business-grade, but straightforward and effective
enough for K12, for instance), and they have real keyboards.

Things start flaking out a bit upmarket (when you're in college, a Chromebook
and Google services might not be the best computer/environment to use
depending on your major, for a lot of reasons), but in general, and from what
I picked up during a deep dive into the education segment a couple of months
ago, I'm not surprised they're popular.

What I _am_ surprised (and then again, not much, really) is that Google and
their hardware partners don't seem to tackle European markets in earnest. I
had to buy a Chromebook in the US for my own use, and if I were to replace it
today I would probably have to have something shipped from the US again - they
are nowhere to be found in retail in my neck of the woods, and European online
retailers only seem to stock a few outdated models.

So I guess the scenario the article describes is going to remain US-only for a
long while.

~~~
danieldk
_they are nowhere to be found in retail in my neck of the woods_

For a brief timeframe, our local Saturn in Germany had quite some models. But
now they seem to have all but disappeared. They used to sell them on the
German Google Store as well, but now they are not offer there either.

I have only been in Germany a couple of years, but there seems to be a quite
strong anti-cloud/Google sentiment. (For good reasons.)

~~~
rcarmo
Well, I'm in Portugal. I've actually just bought some accessories off Amazon
DE and they do stock a few Acer models, but they're not the newest fare (and I
couldn't use one with a German keyboard).

Localisation and market size are factors, obviously...

------
open-source-ux
This is an unpopular opinion here, but I'll voice it anyway. There are serious
privacy implications of using Chromebooks, particularly in schools where young
students may not understand the degree and extent of online tracking going on
in ChromeOS.

Since you cannot use a Chromebook fully without signing in, everything you do
in the operating system is tracked and recorded by Google and tied to your
identity. Why is this even considered remotely acceptable?

The amount of data that Google captures about students must simply be
staggering.

It's simply not enough to say that the data is "anonymised" (a meaningless
term when you have so much data about a user's online habits), or only viewed
in aggregated form. This still means the data can be interrogated and mined
for information in ways we can't begin to imagine.

It remains baffling why the tech industry is so silent on this important
subject.

~~~
torfans
Isn't this the same with Apple and iOS? To download any app, you need an Apple
ID which requires your name and address.

~~~
duskwuff
_Someone_ needs an Apple ID. It doesn't necessarily have to be the student. In
fact, most educational deployments probably have the device locked down to
keep students from downloading apps.

Even then -- creating an Apple ID is quite a different matter from (potential)
ongoing tracking of a user's online activity.

~~~
m45t3r
You could say the same for Chromebooks. It does not need to be the ID from
student, the school can create a throwaway account and give the password for
the student.

If the problem is privacy, the only acceptable option would be a Linux distro
properly optimized for school kids. The problem is, it needs to have a nice
dashboard for administration since Chromebooks are popular in schools thanks
to the ease of administration (most schools can't afford to maintain seasoned
SysOps). AFAIK, nobody is working in this kind of product right now, so Linux
distros are not the answer either.

------
elvirs
I had two chromebooks and I loved them. I could get done everything I need on
daily basis except for printing. Printing is a bitch on chromebooks. I tried
all Google cloud print, wifi print and all other things but printing was
inconvenient so when my business picked up and I had to print shipping labels
and packing slips I went ahead and purchased a Surface Book. Now the business
grew and we have a separate warehouse with a windows pc there for printing
purposes im stuck with this 1400 dollar Surface book, its great hardware but I
hate Microsoft Software, honestly, I just dont think Microsoft is good with
software. Other than their office suite everything else MS makes is subprime
at best. I had to use the media player than comes preinstalled on windows 10
yesterday and once again I told mysel, MS software sucks. I cant wait for
Google to work out the bugs in Android apps running on Chromebooks. Hoping to
switch back to chromebook soon.

~~~
forgot-my-pw
Printing's gone better nowadays. My Chromebook is able to recognize the
network printer.

------
eweise
Chromebooks plus google classroom are all I see in my kids elementary school.
Reminds me of the early days of Apple. Kind of funny that you can get a $200
chromebook and it has a touch screen. My $2,500 macbook pro only has a
touchbar.

~~~
foepys
Why would you want a touch screen on your Macbook? Touching the display will
leave grease stains on the glossy display, you will move the angle of the
display, and you have to raise and extend your whole arm instead of just
moving your hand. It doesn't make sense to have a touch screen on a Macbook
because the form factor is totally different from tablets.

~~~
bahmboo
People don't seem to have a problem touching the screen on their phone why is
touching a laptop screen any different? I suggest you try out a touchscreen
laptop for an extended period if you haven't already.

~~~
liareye
Phone screens are different. Because Steve told us to touch them. Praise Him;
RIP.

~~~
sangnoir
Steve also told us no one wanted 5-inch(!) "Hummer" phones. To test our faith,
he also said 7-inch tablets were _too small_ and would require users to file
down their fingers to use them.

------
Pxtl
What I've heard from a school library: they have iPads and Chromebooks, and
the kids all want the Chromebooks because keyboard. Now consider that the
iPads cost twice as much.

~~~
siosonel
I observed a similar pattern in my kids, who gave the impression that using
laptops make someone look smarter or more capable (less limited) than someone
who uses tablets or iPads. In other words, someone "graduates" from using
tablets to using laptops.

I had thought that the convenient form factor of lighter, less frills tablets
would make them continually more appealing to kids or less technical adults
regardless of where the device is used. But that does not seem to be the
preferred case in a school setting, especially as a student gets older. I
think it reflects a desire to be taken more seriously, and the appearance of
the tools being used matters a lot, even if the same type or quality of work
could be done using a Chromebook or iPad.

------
cypherpunks01
I wouldn't be surprised to hear this is also the case for small businesses
(excluding software devs).

We provision all new employees at our small manufacturing company with
Chromebooks.

------
edtechstrats
So, some of this is about mode, input. But, a big factor in Chromebook
adoption in schools has to do with the ease of enterprise deployment and
management. Apple is far behind the curve here, and the amount of work to
manage a school/class deployment (esp in the early days) was huge.

------
therobotking
I work in a school where we have a bunch of iPads that get passed around from
classroom to classroom. They are terrible. I wish they'd purchased Chromebooks
instead but iPads are more impressive on a list of school features.

------
pjmlp
It should be noted this is an US phenomenon.

Here in Europe Windows still reigns supreme.

I am yet to see any Chromebook on sale besides a few discounters trying to get
rid of them. Some of which already returned by customers, being sold with
heavy discounts.

~~~
CountSessine
The article mentions poor wifi infrastructure, but I'm surprised (or not? This
is TechCrunch?) they didn't mention privacy. At parent-teacher meetings, reps
from my local school board have said that they can't use google apps because
of privacy concerns, what with student data being stored on servers in the US.

Is google addressing this? I'd love to see chromebooks used here but the
privacy issue is real and if kids' personal or school data is being harvested
on a US server, it's tough to advocate for them.

~~~
mavhc
Schools in UK seem to have pretty good WiFi, the ones I work at have Cisco
WLCs.

[https://support.google.com/googlecloud/answer/6056694?hl=en](https://support.google.com/googlecloud/answer/6056694?hl=en)
for EU compliance stuff, they have all the answers you'd expect

~~~
discreditable
We have Cisco WLCs too … from 2009.

~~~
mavhc
They still seem to work great, cheaper things available now at the same level
though

------
dTal
The really scary part, to me, is the way a Google account is now effectively
mandatory for a large section of US children. Sure, it's a "school account",
but that doesn't stop them from being data mined or advertised to. I do not
think such practises should be normalised at an early age, or sanctioned in an
official capacity.

~~~
ricktdotorg
> that doesn't stop them from being data mined or advertised to

you are misinformed. as per Google's G Suite for Education FAQs:

> For all EDU domains, ads are turned off in G Suite for Education services
> and K–12 G Suite for Education users don't see ads when they use Google
> Search and are signed in to their G Suite for Education accounts.

and

> G Suite for Education services don't collect or use student data for
> advertising purposes or to create ad profiles.

and

> Like many email providers, we do scanning in Gmail to keep our customers
> secure and to improve their product experience. In Gmail for G Suite for
> Education, this includes virus and spam protection, spell check, relevant
> search results and features like Priority Inbox and auto-detection of
> calendar events. Scanning to provide product features is done on all
> incoming emails and is 100% automated. We do NOT scan G Suite for Education
> emails for advertising purposes.

via
[https://support.google.com/a/answer/139019?hl=en](https://support.google.com/a/answer/139019?hl=en)

edited to include URL.

~~~
dooglius
[https://www.eff.org/press/releases/google-deceptively-
tracks...](https://www.eff.org/press/releases/google-deceptively-tracks-
students-internet-browsing-eff-says-complaint-federal-trade)

~~~
notatoad
I'm a big fan of the EFF, but for every good thing they do they seem to follow
it up with some baseless paranoia. Nowhere in that article do they actually
back up their claim that google "data-mines" student's browsing history.

Chrome sync is enabled by default, which sends browsing history through google
servers. Google says they don't use that data for advertising purposes. The
EFF's position here seems to be that it is literally impossible for the data
to exist on Google's servers without it being used for advertising purposes.

~~~
dTal
data mined != data mined "for advertising purposes". Google is always very
careful to specify the latter when issuing its suspiciously specific denials.
The EFF, in turn, specifically calls them out on this:

[https://www.eff.org/issues/student-privacy/faq#faq-What-
data...](https://www.eff.org/issues/student-privacy/faq#faq-What-data-does-
Google-collect-about-students)?

------
infosample
"I think the iPad is still the best device, especially if you want to do real
work ... While the Google apps are very powerful, you’re limited in what you
can do in a web browser."

Every platform has limitations. Windows and Mac seem to have the least. But
does "real work" just mean whatever device you like best?

~~~
cptskippy
> But does "real work" just mean whatever device you like best?

I would say it's whatever device allows you to perform your job functions in
the way that best suits your lifestyle.

------
ilamont
My kids' school system starts students on Google Docs in 3rd grade (running on
OS X/macOS), and almost all of the other classes that require special
applications use browser-based apps. We got my daughter a $300 Acer Chromebook
when she reached 8th grade and one of the best things about it is I almost
never have to provide technical support.

The exception is setting up printing -- Google Cloud Print, printer companies,
and wifi router manufacturers leave a lot to be desired when it comes to
setting up wireless printing.

~~~
tacomonstrous
Epson and HP now have direct access on ChromeOS for certain printers.

------
bluedino
Back in the 80's we had computer labs full of Apple II's, which were used for
educational (for the most part) games like Number Munchers, Carmen San Diego,
and Oregon Trail. Then maybe some Print Shop, teaching typing, and using the
computers to write reports for other classes.

They did the job perfectly well - why aren't today's computers being used for
the same things? You don't even need books. Class, take out your device and
open Wikipedia to the article on volcanoes...

~~~
mavhc
What makes you think they're not?

Also audio and video editing, art, a lot of researching topics to write
essays, working together building models in minecraft to learn about volcanos.
And I consider the school all that happens in to be not that advanced in their
usage.

------
tluyben2
I got an Asus flip recently and to be honest, it is a delight. Cheap enough,
Crouton, fast enough and just a nice thing. Battery life is now the biggest
issue on any device, at least for me, and the only device that solves that is
the openpandora (and pyra as well hopefully) so they are my main travel
devices, but the Flip when I have the space and after that the x220 for normal
days. Which brings me to; X220 is old but long battery life (15-17 hours with
the 9 cell & ubuntu with i3) and I can bring a spare battery and besides
gaming it is fast for most things I do besides neural nets, but that's all
cloud anyway for me. What is more worrying is that they (I have got many of
them from a company throwing them away) behave far better than my 2015 macbook
pro; overall faster, overall better battery, overall less slowdowns (the
coloured wheel of horror on mac).

------
whitefish
Who here is old enough to remember Larry Ellison's Network Computer?
Chromebook is the realization of Larry Ellison's vision.

Back in the mid 90's Larry Ellison said, "we need computers that do less, not
more". He was widely ridiculed at that time. Now we know he was right.

~~~
snom380
I don't think it's given that he's right or wrong. Apple has chosen a very
different path (powerful devices with local apps) and they're also extremely
successful.

The real lesson, I think, is that most people don't want to _manage_ devices.
They don't want to deal with backups, they don't want to manage disks,
filesystems and drivers, and if you can take all of that away they'll be happy
to store all their documents in your cloud.

~~~
petilon
For home and personal devices, Apple's approach is fine. But for business and
education, central management is essential.

~~~
ghaff
>But for business and education, central management is essential.

For business, it depends.

I think my company is fairly typical in that we offer fully managed systems
but don't require that people go that route. (But you're more or less on your
own for support if you choose to self-manage.)

------
Corrado
We looked at using Chromebooks (or really just browser based OSs) several
years ago (7+) but couldn't do it because of one fact; the network
infrastructure just wasn't good enough. However, next year we are going with
Chromebooks and I'm not worried about the network at all. In the last several
years our Internet access speed has increased 10 fold and we have a nice WiFi
mesh that reaches every part of the campus. In the coming months|years we are
going to be moving to Google Fiber and that will remove another road-block.
Google is hitting all the right buttons and is where Apple once stood.

------
squarefoot
I'm also interested but a bit worried of the hardware support of different
operating systems. Do you have any model to suggest that won't complain if I
wipe its OS to install Debian? Last time I checked compatibility varied from
model to model: no wireless here, slow graphics there or no audio etc. I
already have a netbook that gives me huge battery life and a i5 laptop which
is fast enough for everything, but whose battery life stinks badly. A
chromebook would be the right in between, but what about debianizing it?

------
pirocks
One thing that surprises/concerns me about chromebooks is the lack of ethernet
ports. Surely something so internet reliant can't be expected to use wifi
only.

~~~
kps
USB-to-Ethernet adapters work — at least, ones with Linux kernel support. All
you risk is ending up with the same twisty-little-maze-of-dongles-all-
different as with Apple laptops. Disclaimer: I used to work on ChromeOS. Semi-
claimer: we had Linksys ethernet adapters IIRC, but I'm sure many others work.

------
mastazi
As the article itself points out more than once, the situation described in
the title is strictly related to the US.

I have studied at several educational institutions in Europe, Indonesia and
Australia, and I never had anything else than a Windows device (either laptop
or desktop PC) (except in cases where the arrangement was BYOD).

EDIT: spelling

------
jsz0
I suspect Apple will release a low cost (iPad priced) ARM based MacBook soon.
iPad sales just aren't good enough for it to continue being Apple's only mass
market 'future of computing' device. There is clearly a big market for good
low cost computers.

------
erikpukinskis
An opinion I hear often expressed on HN is that JavaScript is a horrible
abomination, and native apps are fundamentally superior.

Could one of those folks explain why they think Chromebooks are succeeding so
well, if the apps are vastly inferior?

~~~
DanBC
Because the people making the purchasing decisions in schools are not the
teachers or the pupils using the machines?

------
shmerl
We need more proper Linux in schools, not ChromeOS.

------
stcredzero
Is there a version of ChromeOS which is optimized for older people? Is there
anything out there that can help with elderly parent IT?

~~~
watersb
This is a great question and should be an "Ask HN" feature.

------
Theodores
Is there any evidence of kids with iPads getting better results than kids with
Chromebooks? I do not see any mention of this metric.

~~~
discordance
To extend on that, is there any evidence that more technology provides better
education results?

~~~
Shorel
Even Socrates knew books are detrimental to our memorization abilities.

------
liareye
You're totally right, it'd be just like your iPhone being covered in grease
stains because you're touching the screen with your fingers all day.

Disgusting! Germs! Monoculture!

~~~
foepys
The difference is that you passively wipe the phone screen inside your pockets
or its sleeve. I have seen some very, very disgusting laptop screens.

~~~
xor1
>The difference is that you passively wipe the phone screen inside your
pockets or its sleeve

This is some of the worst grasping at straws I've ever seen on HN. Just admit
that you are wrong here, you're being completely ridiculous. Cleaning a laptop
screen isn't a big deal, and in fact you should be regularly cleaning any
Macbook Pro retina display if you care about it's longevity. Oils from the
keyboard are regularly transferred to the screen every time you close your
macbook, and MBP retina screens are susceptible to staining when the anti-
reflective coating wears off.

~~~
foepys
> Oils from the keyboard are regularly transferred to the screen every time
> you close your macbook

This is false. If the keyboard continuously touches the screen, it will get
damaged eventually. If this happens to your MBP all the time, you should think
about handling your MBP differently and protect the lid from outside pressure.

> and MBP retina screens are susceptible to staining when the anti-reflective
> coating wears off.

So you should touch and clean it even more? Who is the ridiculous one here?

Did you even use a touch screen laptop that does not fold in a 180° angle? I
did and it sucks. It really, really sucks. Your arm gets tired after 30
minutes, the display will look like grease city in typical fluorescent office
light, and due to the interface changes to make buttons clickable with your
fingers, you lose like 50% of your screen space.

~~~
dang
Did you guys really have a flamewar about cleaning laptop screens?

