
Call for a global Immigration Reform - marcog1
http://lostinjit.blogspot.com/2012/04/call-for-global-immigration-reform.html
======
okhan
Immigration controls are not designed for us -- they exist to appease people's
irrational fear of migrants ("stealing our jobs", "the country's full", etc.).
That's why here in the UK we reject the idea of detention without charge for
terrorism suspects, but are perfectly happy to lock up asylum seekers for
years at a time. It's outrageous.

~~~
rmc
_here in the UK we reject the idea of detention without charge for terrorism
suspects_

That's not always been the case. Internment without trial was practiced in the
UK for terrorism. It tends to be counter-productive, and _increases_ violence.
(cf. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Demetrius> )

~~~
okhan
You're right. Just to be clear, I wasn't arguing in favour detention without
trial for terrorism suspects or anyone else. I just wanted to illustrate how
people's irrational fear of migrants appears to exceed even their irrational
fear of terrorism.

------
iloveponies
Schengen Agreement, at least kind of sorted this problem for the lucky ones to
be a citizen of a member state. For the rest of us, we'll continue to be
dogged by this for a long time to come. Immigration laws world wide run on the
premise that once we hit our 30's, we want to settle and have a career, a
degree and/or a family. Nomads are not majority. Tax laws are also equally as
draconian, in reality.

I've found starting a business in my "home" country, and moving between
countries with favorable working holiday schemes and long duration tourist
permits is the most effective but won't be sustainable past 30 unless I set up
another business in a country friendly towards foreign investment (I'm looking
at you, Singapore).

~~~
xiaoma
What changes after you turn 30?

~~~
iloveponies
Most Working Holiday visa programs are age restricted to people 18-30 years
old, in addition to a lot of other immigration laws change.

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cmdkeen
How on earth does showing you're an open source Python programmer prove you're
not planning to seek random low paid employment of the type immigration
controls generally seek to stop?

~~~
fijal
Typically you have enough credibility to go and find a better job. Also, if
you're a person living out of open source, it's relatively easy to check your
credibility and how easy it is for you to find a job. "I wrote an obscure
clock in python" is different than "I wrote python". The latter person is
certainly employable at a large set of companies.

~~~
codesuela
but how would an immigration officer know how to check a Bitbucket account for
credible references? Those people are government workers and not software
engineers

------
tallanvor
I think what the author is calling for is somewhat impractical (if, say,
Thailand issues such a stamp, why should Canada or the USA have to respect
it)?

On the other hand, I don't really understand why countries like the US,
Canada, and Japan don't enter into agreements with EU/EEA countries to allow
for visa-free travel, work, and residence agreements.

------
csomar
So by just being a digital nomad that makes money online you get access to a
country that spent billions and maybe trillions of dollars building its
infrastructure?

My opinion is that you are going to benefit from that, so here is what I think
is a fair deal for digital nomads seeking to browse the USA:

Duration: 0.5-2 years. renewable after 5 years.

Cost: $5,000 for the visa + $600/month.

Work: No. But you can do consulting for accredited companies.

For that cost, I get access to a great infrastructure, culture, people,
universities... I don't have to pay taxes, I just pay a monthly fee which is
the equivalent of what I get.

Once I finish my tour, I just leave the country.

~~~
kijin
If I were to visit a country, stay there for a few weeks or months, and write
programs, I would be paying rent to a local landlord (which goes into the
landlord's property tax), sales tax whenever I purchase anything, gas tax
whenever I drive, and even income tax if I did consulting for a local firm.
That's almost exactly the same as what ordinary citizens of my host country
pay, and unlike them, I don't even get to vote (taxation without
representation?) and I'm OK with that.

Now, why do I need to pay extra just because I hold a passport with a
different color? Like everyone else in your country, I'm paying for my use of
your infrastructure. Nobody's getting a free ride there.

------
wowoc
I'm sorry to write that, but I think that you're being a little bit douchy.
You have a way of thinking parallel to these celebrities demanding exclusive
access to shops and shit.

I am a genius Ukulele player, and if you ever read Ukulele Monthly you would
know me and that I have no problem with attendance at my super-expensive
concerts. But I don't expect border officers to read Ukulele Monthly, or even
to know what Ukulele is.

~~~
ktizo
Even Google has never heard of a magazine called "Ukulele Monthly", so I can
understand why border officers might be unaware of its existence.

~~~
wowoc
TBH I wasn't even sure what Ukulele is, and had to check on Google Images if
it's possible to use the word "play" when referring to it.

~~~
ktizo
It's a small stringed guitar-like instrument exclusively designed for singing
chirpy songs about the many wonderful things that can be observed while
cleaning windows.

------
ktizo
Borders are imaginary lines. But unfortunately border control officers are not
and usually have little time for philosophy on the nature of socially
constructed boundaries.

Perhaps you could just tell them that you decided to retire early and go on a
continuous global tour while you were still young enough to enjoy it.

~~~
rubashov
"Imaginary" lines that people fight and die over. Are you really this deluded?
Nations exist. People bound together by the land and cultural and genetic
heritage is a real thing.

Unsurprisingly many people with strong ties to their nation don't see the net
benefit of making it especially easy for rootless cosmopolitans to crash in.
After all, you can't count on them in a tight spot. They have no loyalty.

~~~
ktizo
People fight and die over a lot of imaginary things. Nations are concepts that
exist through a shared belief in the existence of nations. People can be bound
together by land and heritage without having had the idea of nations or
national borders.

Also, while the walls that are put along the imaginary lines may have a
reality to themselves, the lines are much more fluid and are unbound to the
physical items that represent them. Hadrian's wall is still marking the
northern extent of the old Roman Empire, however the current border between
England and Scotland is much further north and is represented by nothing other
than the occasional sign and line of paint and for the vast majority of the
length of this line has no indication on the ground of its actual whereabouts.

[edit] And as far as loyalty goes, loyalty is independent of patriotism and is
perfectly capable of transcending geography.

~~~
arethuza
"Hadrian's wall is still marking the northern extent of the old Roman Empire"

There is another further North - the Antonine wall:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonine_Wall>

There is quite a lot of Roman infrastructure North of Hadrian's Wall - indeed
I had a wander along part of Dere Street last weekend:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dere_Street>

