
Redditor finds unsecured surveillance cameras seemingly placed by US government - nbrempel
https://old.reddit.com/r/conspiracy_commons/comments/gin79z/i_made_an_alt_because_this_is_sketchy_so_i_can
======
ideophobia
A lot of statements and theories about these camera's from all sorts of
directions, but they're just pole cams. LEA's have been using pole cams since
before I was born (I'm 34). I worked in law enforcement as an analyst and
spent some time staring at pole cams that were setup to surveil known drug
dealers or criminal gang members. To do one correctly (i.e. legally) you
typically need a warrant or a court order, but it can vary I guess based on
jurisdiction. They're often deployed as an alternative to human surveillance
efforts. They're called pole cams because, well, they get thrown up on
telephone poles usually, to take advantage of the power source and ease of
view. The surprising part of this isn't the cameras, its the fact that these
are wide open on the internet. But honestly police are not IT people, and they
often have officers or agents that work specifically as "surveillance techs"
who are not IT people either.

I imagine this will draw a ton of ire about privacy and such, and I generally
agree, but from my limited experience with them, they aren't wide spread,
they're typically temporary, and they're usually purged except for the parts
that are relevant to the investigation. These cams appear to be the exception,
not the norm. If I saw a cam was sitting on an openly accessible server like
this I would have filed a complaint with the agency and the OAG. I don't live
in a state where any of the ones listed on Reddit are in, but I would
encourage people who do live in a state with one of these cams to notify your
OAG about it.

~~~
bsder
The point is the bloody things are _unsecured_.

It's one thing for LAPD to throw up a camera that looks in your windows with a
warrant (not convinced they have one, but I'll give them the benefit of the
doubt).

It's another thing for LAPD to throw up a camera that looks in your windows
_AND LEAVE IT UNSECURED ON THE INTERNET_.

~~~
leephillips
If they are, or can be steered to, look in a window, that’s one thing. But if
they can only see the public street, then they _should_ be unsecured, for the
convenience of the public. I can use them to check traffic, or see if the bus
is coming.

~~~
bsder
A lot of these can be steered.

~~~
leephillips
Even more convenient. And when the law enforcement purpose needs them to be
fixed on a certain spot, then turn off public access until the investigation
is over.

~~~
sterlind
And by polling them to see when public access is disabled, you know exactly
when and where stakeouts are happening!

~~~
nexuist
Could you offer this as a SaaS? Any good literature on how to develop pricing
models aimed at criminals?

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casefields
Inside one of the cameras:

"Due to its sensitive nature, the information contained on this website is
restricted to law enforcement professionals and government agencies only. For
access contact us at 503-932-6899 or email us at info@ipsurvconcepts.com"

[http://ipsurvconcepts.com/](http://ipsurvconcepts.com/)

Good job fellas.

~~~
snypher
This phone number traces to Mike Bethers, Special Agent at Oregon Department
of Justice. I might give them a call today and ask about these cameras.

~~~
edm0nd
His Linkedin Bio: Specialities: Technical surveillance operations; audio,
video, GPS tracking, telecom intercepts. IACIS Certified.

lol

~~~
Gravyness
At least he didn't say he's a specialist on security

------
milesvp
My personal experience with these types of camera is based on a conversation I
had with a friend who’s a public defender in washington state. She said it can
be nearly impossible to figure out who owns or put up all the random cameras
you see at traffic intersections. Also good luck trying to subpoena the
footage. And this is from someone who has greater access to government
information than the typical citizen and had reason to find out.

~~~
aaron-santos
Is it not possible to destroy them and then find the owner by determining who
has standing for the case?

~~~
darkengine
I was thinking the same thing -- obscure its view with a few well-placed
paintballs and see who shows up to clean it.

~~~
y-c-o-m-b
I can't imagine these tactics will end well for anyone caught doing it. I
don't recommend that.

~~~
dvtrn
Then don't get caught, oldest strategy in the clandestine operations handbook
;)

~~~
wolfgke
Make use of the situation that because of COVID-19, lots of people wear face
masks (or, more precisely, mouth-nose masks).

------
obilgic
I'm more surprised about how those cameras handle the reddit traffic without a
glitch

~~~
tinix
these cameras cost thousands of dollars.

> The VB-H43's powerful DIGIC Net II Processor allows simultaneous streaming
> of M-JPEG and H.264 codecs in multiple resolutions (1080p, 720p and 4:3
> category video sizes) to meet various end-user needs.

> Max. 30 Clients + 1 Admin Client - H.264: Max. 10 Clients

------
thsowers
Previous discussion on "The DEA and ICE are hiding surveillance cameras in
streetlights"

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18427626](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18427626)

------
elicash
Anybody else afraid to click some of the links in that post until you hear
about legality of accessing (and controlling!) a DEA camera that's likely part
of an active investigation?

~~~
dsfyu404ed
As a practical matter I'm not worried about clicking a link that's been
clicked tens of thousands of times today.

There's enough ambiguous laws they could likely come after anyone who accesses
it if they wanted but given the facts of the situation I doubt they'd be able
to make anything stick and it would be a giant PR snafu.

~~~
ashtonkem
I believe there is precedent that you’re allowed to enter any computer system
until you’re specifically warned. It’s a bit like traveling through open land,
you can’t get in trouble for trespassing until you’ve been warned that you’re
entering private property.

IANAL.

~~~
bityard
Absolutely untrue. In the US, the law is written such that you may only
legally access a system that you own or have explicit authorization from the
owner to access. It mirrors common law where you're not generally allowed to
enter someone else's home even if they leave the door unlocked.

You can, of course (and plenty of people do), debate the specific application
of the word, "access" in the context of computer networks.

~~~
101404
So accessing a web site is illegal? I rarely see explicit "you are allowed to
access the HTML files on this server" anywhere.

~~~
kube-system
It can be if it was not intended to be public.

It's really not much different than walking around outside. You can walk in an
unlocked retail store and it's okay, but if you walk into your neighbors
bedroom it's not okay.

~~~
tptacek
People on message boards really want to believe there's a black -letter rule
about what you can and can't do, but that's not how our criminal codes work.
These cases will come down to the state of mind of the person accessing the
website, as well as an argument about what a reasonable person would conclude
upon reading what's on that website.

~~~
eloff
I think programmers especially like to view law through the lens of rules they
could implement in code. Often they think it can be hacked by violating the
spirit of the law while upholding the letter. Law in reality is a much more
human thing that takes into account intention on the party of both legislators
making the law and the people it is being applied to. Good thing too.

Is this that makes me think attempts to codify law on some blockchain is a
doomed exercise most of the time.

~~~
c22
This can be a Good Thing, but it depends a lot on the courts not being lazy
and taking shortcuts. When I was in front of a judge there was no disagreement
as to the material facts of the case, but my guilt and my sentence were
decided based on the Court's determination of _my intent_. The only evidence
the court had regarding my intent was my own testimony and the differing
hypothesis provided by the police officers I'd had a verbal disagreement with
at the scene. Guess whose story they went with.

------
mturmon
The camera in LA is outside a bus rapid transit in the San Fernando Valley.
It's being joysticked all over by the excited public. A car! Look! A car!

------
TechBro8615
Maybe worth linking to: [https://www.insecam.org/](https://www.insecam.org/)

------
gccxsse
Can you foia request images from these cameras?

------
ikeyany
Where is the conspiracy? I thought the US government had been surveiling its
cities via aerial technology. Is the conspiracy that these are unsecured?

~~~
fossuser
Your comment isn't totally true in the narrow sense that it's not being done
domestically by the USG specifically (at least at the time I was reading about
it).

The best book on the topic: [https://www.amazon.com/Eyes-Sky-Secret-Gorgon-
Stare/dp/05449...](https://www.amazon.com/Eyes-Sky-Secret-Gorgon-
Stare/dp/0544972007)

The primary domestic use was by the Baltimore police department and it was
supplied by an individual billionaire interested in funding the project.

Interesting fact in that book was that the initial spark for the project was
someone in government watching Enemy of the State in the 90s and thinking "we
should be building this". Somewhat comically the guy who worked on the camera
effects in the movie also has a defense company and was asked to help build
the real thing.

~~~
imglorp
True if you don't count JLENS, and ARGUS, which have been deployed wherever
they feel like for years. Further muddied is that there are federal grants to
let local law enforcement buy this gear.

[https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/the-
rap...](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/the-rapid-rise-
of-federal-surveillance-drones-over-america/473136/)

[https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/harford/aegis/bs-md-
jl...](https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/harford/aegis/bs-md-jlens-blimp-
loose-20151028-story.html)

------
A4ET8a8uTh0
It is possible that it is my general weariness talking, but based on our US
government amazing level of incompetence displayed when dealing with COVID-19,
I am now way less inclined to accept as a given that government can do
conspiracies well.

~~~
lowdose
The local manager of the Burger King doesn't decide what beef is on your
burger, complaining about the temperature of fries to HQ is not going to help
you either.

------
zenexer
I was surprised to find that one of the cameras listed is just down the street
from where I live, and I frequently walk near it. It’s a pretty safe area, so
I’m curious what sort of suspected crime they’re monitoring.

That being said, the camera itself doesn’t make me feel uncomfortable. What
does make me feel uncomfortable is the realization that such cameras are often
open to the internet for anyone to view. That sort of incompetence isn’t what
I like to see.

------
a3n
What would happen to the camera if you ran a script that had the camera look
directly at the sun and tracked the sun all day?

------
acheron
Is this like when Redditors found the Boston Marathon bomber?

------
rolph
from the webpage [[http://ipsurvconcepts.com/](http://ipsurvconcepts.com/) ]
source

" <td width="780" height="30" valign="top" class="copyright1">3030 Briana
Ct.NW, Salem, OR 97304 (503) 932-6899</td> "

also check these out:

[https://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?t=19005](https://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?t=19005)

[https://builtwith.com/ipsurvconcepts.com](https://builtwith.com/ipsurvconcepts.com)

[https://hu.cybo.com/US-kapcsolat/ip-surveillance-concepts-
ll...](https://hu.cybo.com/US-kapcsolat/ip-surveillance-concepts-
llc/Michael+Bethers)

------
TheBill
the one in Hawaii is currently pointed at the SN & access info for the cell
data connection...

This is going to get interesting.

------
LiquidPolymer
My idiot brother shot a county Sheriff during a traffic stop many years ago.
The entire thing was captured on a dash cam so there was no doubt who did it.
He immediately ran and was never captured _.

These camera types were placed around his house from the power poles. The
neighbor actually filmed the install.

I suspect this is standard le practice for various scenarios.

_ it’s been 9 years and my brother has never been seen since that night. I
suspect he killed himself in the expansive, Wild, thick forests the area is
known for.

------
forgot-my-pw
At least in the UK they are known to public and secured.

------
Gasp0de
The cameras are all password protected for me (from Europe). Did someone get
notified and changed it?

~~~
kickopotomus
Looks like they did. The logins weren't there earlier. Would love to see the
frantic email thread that led to that. Still worth noting that none of those
sites appear to have any sort of TLS enabled.

~~~
fulldecent2
Just file a FOIA and ask for the email.

------
rolph
has any body thought to call this fellow up and perhaps give him heads up that
there is a potential problem with his website?

i know i would appreciate it if someone did that for me, and id bet a lot of
people here would.

------
chillingeffect
might not actually be govt... i've often effected federal-looking stickers and
titles on things to keep random people afraid of digging into my stuff.

~~~
rolph
i vaguely recall something about gangs/narcos setting up nieghborhood networks
and cameras in a similar manner to keep watch for cops and warrant activity
teams.

im also wondering if mike bethers is a tripwire-pseudonym should someone call
and poke around

there is a linkedin page:

[https://www.linkedin.com/in/mike-
bethers-8002a24](https://www.linkedin.com/in/mike-bethers-8002a24)

~~~
yoschi77
yeah, probably not a tripwire name if you leave your cameras open and not
secured. Seems more like a sec rookie to me

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ogre_codes
The only thing surprising about this is that they are so easy to pwn. Then
again, PDs aren't exactly tech-savvy.

~~~
MiroF
Yeah, it's actually quite easy to find misconfigured IP cameras like these
online and be able to control them, used to do it for kicks back in high
school.

Surprised this has gotten so many upvotes.

------
leephillips
Kind of surprising that at least one of the URLs still lets me not only look
through the camera, but control it!

------
joemazerino
How long until these get taken down?

~~~
criddell
The links and discussion or the cameras?

------
theferalrobot
/r/conspiracy kids discovers public city weather and traffic cameras that have
been around Since the 00s

~~~
pcdoodle
One guy there was playing around and found presets for: "Richards House"

~~~
derision
Maybe Richard has a lot of weather anomalies

~~~
pcdoodle
LMAO

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ccktlmazeltov
Any screenshots? Cameras are busy.

------
znpy
«Muh freedom!»

