
The Micronesian island of Yap has stone money too heavy to move - MiriamWeiner
http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/20180502-the-tiny-island-with-human-sized-money
======
code_duck
I don’t think currency is a good explanation for the use of these stones -
they seem more like assets, such as real estate or gems.

“The value of stone money has always been fluid, challenging the Western
concept that currency value is pre-determined and fixed”

The value of commodities and real estate continually change in relation to
currencies and each other.

“The coins are valued by their size – they range from 7cm to 3.6m in diameter
– as well as their ornateness and even for the sheer difficulty in obtaining
the rock. How much a coin is worth also depends on who you give it to, and
what for.”

Sounds similar to gemstones or jewelry. What if these stones were faceted and
fit on a ring? It doesn’t sound to me like this is a currency system. It’s
simply assets that they use for trade.

~~~
paulddraper
> It doesn’t sound to me like this is a currency system. It’s simply assets
> that they use for trade.

The concepts fade into each other pretty easily. Stones => gems => gold =>
gold-backed paper => payer

~~~
craftyguy
How many currencies are backed by gold? Certainly not the USD.

~~~
LyndsySimon
Not today, but historically it was.

See the Coinage Act of 1792, which set a "dollar" as 371 4/16 grains of silver
or 24 3/4 grains of gold.

------
mikeash
This is a delightful example of the flexibility of the human concept of money.

I particularly love the story (which doesn’t seem to be mentioned here) of the
stone that sank on the voyage back from the quarry. The islanders discussed it
afterwards and decided that it still counted. Someone owns a giant stone on
the ocean floor that they can use to pay others, and as long as everyone else
agrees, it works.

~~~
AndrewKemendo
_as long as everyone else agrees, it works_

You could sum up the history of money with this line.

------
whoopdedo
I wonder if Douglas Adams was aware of this when he wrote:

    
    
        the Triganic Pu has its own very special problems. It exchange rate of eight Ningis
        to one Pu is simple enough, but since Ningi is a triangular rubber coin six thousand
        eight hundred miles along each side, no one has ever collected enough to own one Pu.
        Nigis are not negotiable currency, because Galactibanks refuse to deal in fiddling
        small change.

------
roywiggins
It's not much different from Bitcoin really. Who owns a particular coin is
based entirely on the consensus of who owns what, and for a coin to change
hands you just tell everyone it has.

~~~
ejcx
What we REALLY need is these Micronesian money stones to be logged on the
immutable blockchain.

~~~
jcranmer
For the record, I had a vision of the blockchain here being a physical chain
that you thread through these stones instead of a virtual ledger.

------
dizzystar
Years back, I had a friend from Micronesia. We were at a bar and he was in awe
of the bathroom token, as it was round and had a hole in the center.

He told me all about the stone money. When he told me how they would carry
these things on their boats, I asked what happens when the boat sinks.

He said that the stone was still considered the owner's money, and was thus
understood to be valid payment.

------
whatshisface
> _The value of stone money has always been fluid, challenging the Western
> concept that currency value is pre-determined and fixed._

All money systems have had inflation and deflation. I doubt it's even possible
to design a currency that stays fixed in value.

Actually, these stones are more likely to remain
noninflationary/nondeflationary than either old (gold-based) or modern (fiat)
currencies: because while gold mines don't scale perfectly with the size of
the economy and fiat isn't guaranteed to scale with anything, the ability of
people to carve giant stone disks sounds like it would advance quite closely
in lockstep with general industrial capacity. So in a funny way they're
actually closer to be fixed! In history, problems have been caused both by
gold's inability to easily expand when new resources _other_ than mineable
land were introduced, and fiat currency's ability to expand way too easily in
the event of a political failure. Maybe we should switch ;)

------
everyone
Hmm, I'll stick with the Triganic Pu thankyou very much.

~~~
cyberferret
Could you break that down into some fiddling small change Ningi's for me?

------
contingencies
Much previous coverage. There are many other interesting value-objects in the
pacific, not just these. I have a small collection. Cassowary bones through
stone rings. It's quite interesting how widespread the stone ring is as a
prehistoric object of value - neolithic China, many
Polynesian/Micronesian/Pacific islands, etc. Holey beads were also widely
traded by the Romans and other empires and have often been found very far
afield. I guess "hangs on a thread" was the killer feature there. If only it
were so easy for modern startups...

------
classicsnoot
Not long ago (year or two) a far more in depth piece about this particular
currency was posted on HN. The article as well as the subsequent comment chain
was delightful and informative. Does anyone remember either, and would they be
so kind as to post links? I have tried searching and come up short on both
counts. Any help, as well as any other interesting links related to this
topic, would be great appreciated.

~~~
exolymph
Perhaps this Nick Szabo essay? [http://nakamotoinstitute.org/shelling-
out/](http://nakamotoinstitute.org/shelling-out/)

------
jachee
I like that Yap is "pay" backwards.

------
CryptoPunk
The stones provide scarcity and a means of introducing new currency into the
money supply.

The actual transferrence process could be modernized with a traditional
database, or a decentralized blockchain. The claims to the stones could even
be turned into ERC721 non-fungible tokens, or for even greater liquidity, each
one could represent some large quantity of fungible ERC20 tokens, so that
people could own a small percentage of a stone instead of an all-or-nothing
proposition.

~~~
na85
Wow it didn't take long for the first un ironic blockchain comment.

------
Piskvorrr
Well...and the West has gold backing (a part of) its currencies that is also
too heavy to move.

------
olliej
As opposed to using the notoriously lightweight mineral we call gold...

~~~
GW150914
We tend to deal in small amounts of gold, not human-sized statues of it. These
stones are _enormous_.

~~~
olliej
You've seen the pictures of pallets of gold bricks we keep around right? It's
not exactly portable. :D

------
partycoder
Good idea, less theft.

