
“That's a stupid idea” - mavfosho
http://jeffw.svbtle.com/community
======
michael_nielsen
Bessemer Venture Partners' anti-portfolio makes it clear just how hard it is
to appreciate ideas early on:

[http://www.bvp.com/portfolio/antiportfolio](http://www.bvp.com/portfolio/antiportfolio)

They had the chance to invest in the following companies early, but didn't:
Intel, Google, Apple, FedEx, PayPal, and others.

~~~
blisterpeanuts
Outside the Silicon Valley world, there are numerous similar examples. J.K.
Rowling's first Harry Potter novel was rejected by 12 publishers, for
instance.

The stupidest things can turn out to be hits. I read of a guy who decided to
market an electric toothbrush in the early '90s, when that market was
considered by skeptics to be mature and saturated. He was quite successful, as
it turned out.

I guess the nature of entrepreneurship is that it's entirely unpredictable.
Therefore, we can safely disregard the naysayers, even though they are
accidentally right 9 times out of 10!

~~~
rmc
_Outside the Silicon Valley world, there are numerous similar examples. J.K.
Rowling 's first Harry Potter novel was rejected by 12 publishers, for
instance._

JK Rowling wrote a crime novel under a different name. The critics praised it,
but it was a commerical failure. It's more likely that luck can play a large
failure.

~~~
objclxt
That's not true. In the brief four months between being published and the
author being revealed as a pseudonym it sold a respectable number of copies
(8,500 across all formats - that doesn't sound like a lot, but it was at the
time only published in the UK, and for a hardback book that is actually a
large amount). By publishing industry standards it was commercially
successful.

JK Rowling herself has said the number of copies the book sold in its first
three months corresponds fairly well to the number of books she sold under her
own name when she was initially published.

~~~
ThomPete
Yeah but that is most probably more due to her already existing contacts and
thus she started a completely different place than others have to.

Luck does play quite a large part in this once the initial vetting for quality
is done.

------
Sakes
Rather than jump into a condemning remark like "That is a stupid idea" I
simply say, "I don't get it". Then I talk the idea through with them while
trying to understand why they think it is a good idea.

Sometimes I find there was some data I was missing. But, if I still believe it
to be a bad idea, rather than tell them their idea is stupid I simply say "I'd
never build that because of x, y, & z" which is an honest and unassuming
statement.

~~~
girvo
That's not what the OP is really talking about though, as what you've
described is fair and constructive :)

People gossip. I'm not in the Valley myself, but friends are, and from what
I've been told the OPs description of behind-the-back unconstructive
negativity... Well, I think that's a bad way of helping each other.

To put it simply: I think we need to be a little more sensitive. That doesn't
mean we can't be critical, but if you temper that with some empathy, you'll
often get better results, in my experience.

------
gaius
If your target market is stupid people, then you need stupid ideas. This is
the entire business model of many companies: Upworthy, Buzzfeed, Snapchat, etc
etc.

~~~
ForHackernews
"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." \-
H.L. Mencken

------
TamDenholm
The thing is, what i'd class as "stupid ideas" can still become popular.
Personally i still think that twitter and snapchat are stupid ideas. I think
they're cool, fun and interesting for the tweens that use them but they're a
stupid _business_ idea, because the revenue models are an afterthought, which
i dislike.

~~~
argumentum
_You_ disliking things doesn't make them stupid.

~~~
ams6110
Stupid is not an objective assessment though. I think Facebook is stupid, and
I don't use it. I'm clearly in the minority, but that doesn't make me wrong,
because there is no universal, objective standard on what is or is not
"stupid."

~~~
ForHackernews
I think the point is that stupid things can still be popular, and stupid ideas
can make for successful businesses. Americans in particular tend to have a
purely capitalist viewpoint that equates "profitable" with "good".

Hell, the "Pet Rock" sold millions, and I would hope we can all agree that was
a stupid idea.

~~~
ams6110
I think you are proving the point. Yes, I would agree that the pet rock was a
stupid idea. Assuming I would find any reason to want a rock as a pet, why
would I pay for one when I could simply go out to the garden and find one?

Yet many people did find the idea not only not stupid, but compelling enough
to pay for.

So "stupid" is an entirely subjective assessment. I would never have invested
in the "pet rock" idea as a funding venture, but clearly if I had done so at
the right time, it could have been rewarding to do so.

------
shuaib
I don't know about others, but I am surrounded by quite a few 'idea
enthusiasts'. People who believe that an idea is everything, and they get
emotionally attached to each of their ideas. It makes it very difficult to
critique any of their idea as they will make every effort to defend their idea
no matter how weak their argument is. In such cases, I could either tell them
'Interesting idea, talk about it later', when I don't mean to talk about it
ever again, but still not hurt the person. Or tell them the truth, that I
think the idea is 'stupid' (may be following it up by why I think so if asked,
though increasingly difficult with so many ideas floating around).

~~~
k-mcgrady
The problem I find with 'idea enthusiasts' is that rather than pick 1 good
idea and build on it they have lots of ideas and want to stick them all
together which leaves you with a big mess of a product.

------
timr
I feel that this sort of criticism is less about the actual plausibility of
ideas, and more about the intense competition for resources amongst startups
right now. People are more positive about new ideas when there aren't five
hundred copycats competing for the same limited pool of attention, office
space and employees with tiny variations on the same basic themes.

When there's one "stupid idea" making a run at the barricades, it's easy to be
supportive. But when every idea immediately clones three other "fast follower"
ideas, people get cynical pretty quickly.

~~~
twic
In particular, in the current Silicon Valley system, the "stupid ideas" are
competing with good ideas for money. Money that went into Snapchat wasn't
available to go into a startup doing cleantech, privacy, optical logic,
nuclear fusion, or some other technology that is crucial for the future.

------
guybrushT
In keeping with this spirit - Is this idea good? [https://yenbe-
beta.appspot.com/](https://yenbe-beta.appspot.com/)

I just made this page 2 hours ago, and took a break to see whats up on HN. As
I was making this, I was thinking "This is a stupid idea" :)

~~~
chaz
Upvote for trying something. I do think there are serious trust issues,
though.

As the seller/traveller, I don't want to get screwed in terms of time and
money. It's a hassle to around my city to pick up an item, and then to pack
it, haul it through two different airports, get it through customs, and then
to have to meet the traveller during my busy schedule (and who really wants to
do this during their vacation?). It better be worth my while, and I'd like the
money upfront so I don't have to take this thing back with me in case the
buyer flakes.

As the buyer, I don't want to get screwed by the traveller. I'm sending them
the money, and they may never show up.

I would consider trying to find a niche of small, portable products that don't
present any customs/duty problems, and then try to scale up from there. Trust
platforms like Facebook, PayPal, or escrow may help mitigate in some cases,
but not all.

I would actually consider focusing on the very low end. For example, what if
it was just a $5 candy exchange. It's actually a meet-new-people-platform,
with candy as an excuse for traveller to meet locals.

~~~
guybrushT
Great points! You perfectly summed up all top-of-mind issues with this idea.
All of this was running through my head as I was cobbling together this shoddy
landing page.

(Btw, I just posted the question on Ask HN, is it ok if I reply there? - I
thought the idea was so strikingly stupid that no one would care)

Anyway, I have some thoughts about the problems you laid out. I will post a
reply on the ask HN thread - and would love to get your thoughts!

------
tomasien
I'm sure a lot of the same people who agree with this blog post are the same
people who constantly trash Snapchat, which I find to be a beautiful and
meaningful product, as trash. I think that may be an even more relevant
message - just because it appears trivial or doesn't appear to have meaning
for you, doesn't mean it's not a meaningful product/service.

------
duk
“Opinions are the cheapest commodities on earth. Everyone has a flock of
opinions ready to be wished upon anyone who will accept them. If you are
influenced by "opinions" when you reach DECISIONS, you will not succeed in any
undertaking.” ― Napoleon Hill, Think and Grow Rich: The Landmark Bestseller--
Now Revised and Updated for the 21st Century

------
dvirsky
I agree that more honesty when you don't like ideas is needed. A few years
back when I started a company (as the tech founder), we approached a high
profile investor. He was positive at first and then cooled off after a few
days.

Then he took me for a walk during a convention we attended together, and he
said very bluntly: "Listen, this will never work. Your product is nice and you
can execute the tech part, but your go to market strategy is all wrong because
[XYZ]. I have been known to be wrong before, but you guys are basically
driving off a cliff".

The irony is that because we had a bullshit guard up for every word coming
from anyone in the industry - that we just said "hey, he's wrong, next
investor please". His advice was pure gold, and in retrospect, spot on about
the problems we had, that could have been fixed at that stage.

~~~
delinka
"Stupid idea" "Never work" \- these are not constructive things to say. They
make people have the same reaction you did. "Your go to market strategy needs
to fix XYZ." _This_ is the kind of feedback people are looking for, and when
presented this way, will probably result in more successes overall.

~~~
dvirsky
"Stupid idea" is indeed not constructive. "Will never work because [XYZ]" is
constructive IMHO, although not very polite.

Being Israeli I prefer brutal truths over polite bullshit. And personally I
try to be honest with people showing me their ideas - while being positive and
polite. But knowing the scene, not all Israelis are like that.

------
beams_of_light
Blogspam. These are clear SEO attempts, svbtle is a clone of so many other
blogging platforms, it's irrelevant.

------
lor3nzo
It's very easy to predict failure, and it's also very easy - after the fact -
to say "I told you so." These are the "experts" and "gurus" speaking.

The "experts" are indeed expert in rhetoric because after one of their failure
prediction ends up actually succeeding, they are quick to point of how it
succeeded, often mentioning "luck"; and possibly pointing out the impeding
failure.

What I would like to see the "expert" saying is who/what will succeed, and I
have yet to find an "expert" who does that.

Interestingly enough, most of these "experts" are nothing more than
professional writers/talker and don't actually do anything related to what
they are talking about. I like the expression "Monday morning quarterback".

------
tbirdz
It seems I have accidentally given the article a kudos point for this post,
although I didn't intend to. It would be nice if svbtle had more indication
about that leaving your cursor over the kudos button has this effect, unlike
most normal buttons where you have to click to activate.

------
paul_f
Ideas are just starting points from which one eventually pivots to a
compelling business model backed by evidence collected from talking to
potential customers. If one does not talk to customers or pivot, and simply
cranks away on their original idea, well, then that is the stupid part.

------
dasil003
Too much focus on other people, and it goes both ways.

You shouldn't be randomly picking apart other people's companies just to make
yourself feel better, that is not moving the needle for your own company _at
all_. You also shouldn't be worried about what other random people are saying
about your startup since there will _always_ be haters.

Instead you should be heads down focused on your own problems or possibly
helping other people who you personally know in private. Posting some
criticism on the internet to appear smart or fulfill some other base
psychological desire is just a waste of time.

------
ksk
On a separate note, can you really say "that's a great idea" to a startup/team
that hasn't yet demonstrated the potential of the idea? I do believe that on
some level, a successful start-up idea does have to sound "stupid" \- not
necessarily the product itself but the idea that you can sell/generate revenue
from product/service X.

------
loladesoto
feedback is feedback. when i hear one of my ideas is
stupid/unfeasible/unrealistic/ill-conceived, i now probe for more detail. i
try to get beyond semantics to see if i can learn anything.

probing helps me move from reactive to proactive stance, from attached to
objective. this way, i can better filter the noise.

note: some of the biggest mistakes i made in my past startup were listening to
too many people or not listening closely enough to a few. that is the paradox
of good judgment (which i believe comes from some combination of gut instinct
and pattern-watching; listening is just another form of data collection for
the latter).

~~~
jlcx
It makes sense to try to get what benefit you can out of all criticism, but I
think Jeff is still right that critics should try to keep it constructive.

------
bitsweet
I was talking to a VC about how I at one time thought I'd never use AirBNB -
but I've now both rented an AirBNB and rented out my house. He said he had
felt the same once but the mistake cost him far more then me.

~~~
sneak
It didn't cost him anything. Unrealized gains are not losses.

~~~
gfodor
obviously he was speaking figuratively. beep boop

------
michaelmcmillan
A stupid idea is just that, an idea. The entrepreneurs ability to convey his
vision or idea does not necessarily mean that his execution will be bad. Which
leads us to the question: What is a good idea?

~~~
aaronem
Which invites the further question: Short of hindsight or experience, is it
possible to tell good ideas from bad?

------
lbr
“If someone says: That's impossible.

You should understand it as: According to my very limited experience and
narrow understanding of reality, that's very unlikely” -Paul Buchheit

------
jw2013
How about the anti-portfolio of some of the most prestigious VCs, say union
square venture?

I always thought USV missed few to-be-facebook startups. Anybody care to give
us some names?

