
Zero-emission autonomous ship planned to start in 2018 - antr
http://yara.com/media/stories/yara_birkeland_vessel_zero_emission.aspx
======
tmm
Why not build a modern sail powered cargo vessel? A quick back of the napkin
calculation puts this ship in the cargo range of a late 19th century clipper.
These ships were as fast as modern diesel cargo ships, had relatively small
crews (20-25), and were of course zero-emission. For a short coastal route
such as this an even smaller crew could be used since you could dispense with
a regular watch standing schedule.

It wouldn't be autonomous, but it would be way cooler.

~~~
bdjewkes
Lack of predictability.

I attended a maritime academy and worked in the industry for a year before
switching to computers.

The modern transportation is built on reliable ETAs. Mechanical propulsion
changed shipping from an industry of uncertainty to one in which you 'could
make your own ETA'. Sail doesn't give you that kind of certainty.

It is worth noting that there are technologies (SkySail, for example) on the
market now that use sail as a form of auxiliary power so that ships can save
on bunkers.

(edit: formatting)

~~~
derefr
Is there any kind of cargo with logistics of "eh, as long as it gets there
eventually"?

~~~
jmts
A curious thought just popped into my head. Deliveries tend to be time
critical. I can't think of many deliveries that would tend not to be. However
ocean cleanup struck me as a type of 'collection' that may hypothetically find
sail power to be an advantage. I've done zero research and have absolutely no
background in the area, however I do recall from my years fishing that at
least surface garbage tends to follow wind patterns. If this can be exploited
by an autonomous vehicle in some way, perhaps it could prove to be an
advantage? Clusters of networked vessels could work together to provide enough
live data on wind direction to avoid errors with localised high frequency
changes in wind direction perhaps.

The down sides would be that once the vessel has a full cargo, it may take
longer than a powered vessel to return to wherever it will offload the waste
(perhaps a larger 'mothership' could follow?), and with no sailing expertise,
I suspect that it may be harder to direct such a vessel than just using a
powered one with the appropriate sensors aboard.

------
pdelbarba
Anybody have range numbers on this? I doubt they're going to get very far with
just batteries right now but this could be an interesting solution for ferry-
type operation between local ports.

~~~
pecangallery
This article gives a little bit more detail: [http://newatlas.com/autonomous-
electric-shipping-container-v...](http://newatlas.com/autonomous-electric-
shipping-container-vessel/49477/)

The article says they're using this to replace an overland truck route between
Porsgrunn and Larvik, Norway - roughly 25km. I'd guess the shipping route is
double that?

~~~
pdelbarba
That's an awfully short route to use a ship on. I could see this being very
useful for stuff like vehicle and passenger ferry transport but cargo
containers seems downright ridiculous.

~~~
scott00
Their previous process was load container on truck, drive to major port,
unload container from truck, load container onto a ship. The plant apparently
is a small port, so the new process is load container on ship, sail ship to
major port, unload container from ship, load container onto another ship. I
don't see why loading and unloading a ship would be more onerous than loading
and unloading a bunch of trucks. So if the ship uses less fuel than a bunch of
trucks, it's a win. Why not do it?

------
exhilaration
No pics of a finished ship? Or even a partially completed one? Is is just
vaporware at this point?

~~~
chillax
According to this article (norwegian): [https://www.tu.no/artikler/verdens-
forste-autonome-skip-i-dr...](https://www.tu.no/artikler/verdens-forste-
autonome-skip-i-drift-skal-erstatte-40-000-vogntogturer-i-aret/382717) a
contract should be signed this year. Delivery Q3 2018 and testing with onboard
crew. Remote control from Brevik (port authority) in 2019 and fully autonomous
operations from 2020. So yes, vaporware at this point, but with Kongsberg as a
partner I think this will be built - for more see:
[https://www.km.kongsberg.com/ks/web/nokbg0240.nsf/AllWeb/597...](https://www.km.kongsberg.com/ks/web/nokbg0240.nsf/AllWeb/597733F8A1B8C640C12580AC0049C134?OpenDocument)

------
iandanforth
Fertilizer companies have a unique incentive to fight greenhouse gas
emissions. Plants grow better at higher C02 concentrations thus reducing the
need for their product.

~~~
Tsagadai
Except fine particulates negatively affect plant growth. Systems are complex
and CO2 at levels that will greatly improve plant growth will probably kill
most animal life (also mass oxygenation of the atmosphere has happened before
and that was really bad for the planet too).

------
shipman05
"With this vessel, Yara will reduce diesel-powered truck haulage by 40,000
journeys a year."

That's a lot of jobs. No news to HN readers, but figuring out how to handle
surplus labor without (often violent) societal upheaval will be the defining
issue of this century.

~~~
hackuser
> figuring out how to handle surplus labor without (often violent) societal
> upheaval will be the defining issue of this century

The jobs and the welfare of individuals are the top priorities IMHO, but I'm
not sure there is a great problem. This isn't at all a new situation.

If you look at the jobs of a century ago in advanced economies, most of them
are gone yet employment now is relatively high. Just think of the homemakers
who were displaced by the automation of home care (clothes washers and dryers,
vacuum cleaners, etc.); that might approach half the population. There's also
textiles, mining, factory work, etc. It's a regular process: Productivity
improves, less labor is needed in one area, and so it shifts to something more
productive. If it wasn't for that creative destruction, there would be no
software developers; they'd all be in the mines and fields.

What is different this time? I've heard all sorts of speculation, but I
haven't heard anyone with expertise seriously analyze and address it.

There are problems: To me the essential issue is that while the economy in
aggregate grows through this process, individuals don't live in aggregate;
they suffer (and sometimes gain) tremendously. The economy may grow 4% in
aggregate, but most people don't get 4% richer; some lose 100% of a job (and
house and children's education, and even healthcare in the U.S.) or gain 100%
of a job. Perhaps that is no longer acceptable to us; it's not to me. The
factory may move to a different part of the country, and in aggregate the
economy marginally grows (there are the same number of factories in the
country and we can assume it was moved to increase productivity), but all
those individuals lost jobs.

In addition, some research shows that a large segment of the population hasn't
been getting wealthier for decades; only a few are. For example,

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/05/08/resea...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/05/08/researchers-
have-answered-a-big-question-about-the-decline-of-the-middle-class/)

~~~
douche
The problem is that we keep raising the floor on the level of training and
aptitude that's required to be a productive worker in society, and we're
already getting to the point where a lot of people can't keep up. The shift
from being behind the plow to a cog in an assembly line doesn't filter that
many people out. The shift from blue-collar industrial to white collar
bullshit clerical employment filters a little more, but the shift to skilled
knowledge work, which is rapidly becoming the only path to economic security,
filters people hard. There's a lot of people that don't have the tools to even
compete, and more that have the ability but don't have the resources to
retread.

~~~
Animats
That's a good, understandable explanation. Thanks.

Another useful explanation is that new jobs are being created all the time,
but most of the new ones can be done better by machines.

------
oconnore
This is cool, but you can already have zero (net) emissions by running an
existing container ship off of biodiesel or synthetic diesel. And the crews
are so small relative to freight volumes that automating them won't drop costs
very much.

~~~
Klasiaster
Biofuel is not zero emissions, currently it is even worse because huge parts
of rainforrest are burned for this monoculture farming.

~~~
oconnore
Citation? Most of the firms trying to make this work are growing algae in the
desert (or the navy is just synthesizing jet fuel from sea water) -- and if
companies are willing to pay for a literal boat load of Li-ion batteries,
their cost/gallon is probably competitive.

~~~
zardo
>Most of the firms trying to make this work are growing algae in the desert

They aren't currently producing biofuels. Current biofuels are primarily
rapeseed, corn, and sugar cane based.

~~~
oconnore
It's not that they don't exist, it's that current generation tech is not
economical without subsidies [that don't exist], and therefore hasn't been
scaled up.

And there is no way in hell that a boat filled with batteries is economical
compared to one filled with bunker fuel. So if we're not doing economical,
it's worth exploring other not-quite-there renewable sources -- especially
since a net-zero-CO2 fuel will be more practical: big tanks are cheap, more
batteries are not.

------
alex_duf
They don't seem to talk about energy source. Is this going to be battery
powered or nuclear powered?

