
When TED Lost Control of Its Crowd - jnazario
http://hbr.org/2013/04/when-ted-lost-control-of-its-crowd/ar/1
======
potatolicious
I'm generally of the opinion that TEDx needs to end entirely. TED is a single
organizer, not a movement or a cause - its primary contribution to the world
is that of exacting, high-quality curation in a world where everyone has a
soapbox.

TED's usefulness to people is the trust in the brand and the trust in their
curation quality - if this is lost TED's main mission has failed.

In my opinion, TED has already lost this trust. There was a time where a TED
link was a must-click and a must-watch. I cannot remember the last time I
bothered clicking on a TED link - it must be at least a year now. It is
perhaps not too late to regain this trust - but they need to cut loose the
forces that are preventing this.

TEDx is a dilution of the TED brand and the organization would IMO be better
off without it, and the brand _is_ TED.

I do believe that high-quality curation, especially when it comes to deep
knowledge, is a valuable thing - but would-be curators should have to earn the
trust their audiences places with them, not ride off TED's coattails.

~~~
gmu3
I don't mean to come off the wrong way, but did you even read the article?
Most of it was about past transgressions and what they've done to tighten the
brand. Maybe you're been away too long. I also somewhat reject your
characterization of their mission, because their mission first and foremost is
about the spread of ideas. TEDx has irrefutably made TED more popular and
mainstream and thus more effective as a vehicle to spread ideas. Yes quality
is important, but even with TEDx, the process to become a "TED link" is
extremely curated:

"Indeed, open as TED is, pieces of its ecosystem are highly managed. For
example, while 25,000 TEDx talks have been produced so far, as of the time of
this writing only 228, or approximately 1%—the best of the best—had made it to
TED.com for broad-based distribution and endorsement. People who complain that
TED is not curating its content are ignoring how selective it is when posting
TEDx content."

~~~
potatolicious
> _"I don't mean to come off the wrong way, but did you even read the
> article?"_

IMO, there is no way to say the above and have it come off the _right_ way. It
falls into the same bucket as "with all due respect..."

> _"Most of it was about past transgressions and what they've done to tighten
> the brand."_

Yes, and my contention is that _it will never be enough_. This is not a unique
problem - large, spread out organizations are almost universally unable to
consistently maintain a high quality bar. The difference is that for TED the
quality _is_ the product.

There is IMO no way for TED to reign in its TEDx partners to an extent that
will restore the trust in the brand. To do so would basically involve TED
_taking over_ the curation of the content, in which case we're talking about
an expansion of TED, not a franchising of TED (which, despite being non-
profit, is what's occurring right now).

> _"I also somewhat reject your characterization of their mission, because
> their mission first and foremost is about the spread of ideas."_

No, it's about the spread of _some ideas_ \- as they say themselves, ideas
worth spreading.

If our goal was to spread ideas without curation, Twitter, Facebook,
WordPress, Tumblr, etc are all doing a far better job. TED's mission, both
explicit and implicit, is to highlight particularly poignant people and ideas.

It is also how they rose to fame in the first place - they didn't predate
Vimeo or YouTube, and they certainly haven't predated the format of the
academic talk. What they _did_ do was have razor-sharp curation and the
ability to assemble a _lot_ of great content in one place.

> _"TEDx has irrefutably made TED more popular and mainstream and thus more
> effective as a vehicle to spread ideas."_

TEDx has increased the profile of TED, it has also decreased its reputation
_dramatically_. As I've pointed out above already, quality is _core_ to the
raison d'etre of TED.

> _"People who complain that TED is not curating its content are ignoring how
> selective it is when posting TEDx content."_

And yet kooks still make it. Nobody is saying that TED is sitting back and
doing nothing - is that that they are either not doing enough, or that the
structure of TEDx makes their task all but impossible.

~~~
gmu3
> and yet kooks still make it

Can you please link me to someone you consider a kook on TED.com? The main
couple kooks people talk about years later after TED has made changes like
vortex math never make TED.com and for good reason.

If you honestly believe less than 1% of TEDx video have any merit, I think
that is fairly elitist of you.

~~~
untog
_If you honestly believe less than 1% of TEDx video have any merit, I think
that is fairly elitist of you._

I feel like TED is supposed to be elitist, in terms of the quality of its
content.

~~~
gmu3
I agree to a point but don't think 1% is too accepting. In many ways I think
the top 1% of TEDx talks exceed the quality of some traditional TED conference
talks, because they typically are doing it solely because of the idea as
oppose to conference speakers who have other commercial interests, often
promoting themselves and/or their new book.

~~~
ProblemFactory
The value of TED over youtube.com, or an academic seminar at any university is
their quality of talks and rigorous selection process - or "elitism" if you
wish.

I can believe that the top 1% of TEDx talks are better than the average TED
talk. Maybe 10% are worth looking at once you have seen most of TED talks, the
best online courses, the best Google TechTalks, etc on your area of interest.

But why are the rest of the 90% even there?

Having a few great talks doesn't matter, if there is no way to find them out
of the mass of inanity on TEDx or elsewhere online.

------
3dptz
With few exceptions the quality of talks, for which I was drawn to TED in the
first place, has been in free fall for years.

5 or 6 years ago almost every TED talk was a gem for anyone with a single
engineer, science or technology fiber in his/her body.

Becoming more famous is what did them in. Needing to push out more talks on
shorter and shorter intervals. Shifting more and more from spreading ideas
(i.e. technology), to telling stories and making people feel better or worse.
And more importantly promoting whatever product/service they are connected to.

It has become an event where people think they need to be, regardless of
interest in actual topics. Something which is reflected in the generic
nonsense which is their comments section.

Also, if you are a self proclaimed "thought leader" you are a douche bag.

------
jdmitch
TEDx talks have lacked credibility from the beginning as far as I'm concerned,
but what I find disappointing is that the main TED talks are increasingly just
motivational nonsense. There are some very engaging speakers, but the actual
ideas and content are often questionable. I find some of the perspectives on
and from "developing countries" particularly patronizing and poorly
contextualized. But most people I know find them inspiring and invigorating,
and I hate to rain on anyone's parade so I always keep quiet. I just find
(many, not all) TED talks make me want to laugh at how implausible/naive/over-
the-top the ideas are. Just sayin' ...

~~~
rm999
The Onion does a really good series called "Onion Talks" that satirizes the
vapidness of TED talks. They also capture the audiences' "inspired" reactions
pretty well.

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tom6_ceTu9s>

~~~
ben1040
This is great. I cracked up at this, and this particular one is also likely to
be the only Onion content that is not only age-appropriate for my toddler but
also educational.

------
rdl
The standard for every TED talk should be "if I've never heard of TED, and
this is the first talk I've ever seen, I'd be amazed by both the talk and
enough reflected glory on TED that I'd want to watch more, discuss it with
others, etc."

Not many of the current _TED_ talks live up to that, let alone TEDx. It's
possible I've become more cynical, but if I watch pre-shitification TED talks
I generally feel that way, and if I watch current TED talks, I rarely feel
that way (although there are exceptions still).

(possible exceptions for the musical/entertainment sessions at TED, which
mainly seem to be there for the in-person attendees, not video, and for talks
which are sequels of earlier talks -- in which case it might be that you have
to watch them in order for it to be reasonable, like the Bill Gates talks)

------
joecurry
>> "they’re setting up ones that feature “experts” in pseudoscience topics
like “plasmatics,” crystal healing, and Egyptian psychoaromatherapy, all of
which were presented at TEDxValenciaWomen in December 2012. That conference
was described by one disappointed viewer as “a mockery...that hurt, in this
order, TED, Valencia, women, science, and common sense.”

Wow. I'm ashamed to have put 'curated TEDx participant' on my resume. Removed.

~~~
hkmurakami
> _Wow. I'm ashamed to have put 'curated TEDx participant' on my resume.
> Removed._

Depending on what kind of organization you're applying to, that can still be
useful.

~~~
illuminate
MLMs? Homeopathy clinic? Scientology knockoff?

------
rye
I stopped caring about TED talks when it became clear that people were more
interested in promoting themselves rather than 'ideas worth spreading'.

Too many posers looking for that epic photo of them on-stage with the head mic
attached.

~~~
s_baby
TED is forcing the speakers into promotion mode.
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hwLMBdnbXk>

~~~
smutticus
I came here to post this video. Anyone wondering how TED should change its
ways needs to see this video.

------
GuiA
The "vortex math" talk was removed from TEDx Charlotte's website, but there's
a copy here: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oRnhrOf0r0>

~~~
iansinke
The fact that he was reading his entire presentation verbatim should have
tipped everybody off in the first minute or so. Nobody who's "at the forefront
of the most advanced mathematics ever known to mankind" needs that much notes
to talk about it. Shoot, I've never had a prof that needed that kind of
help... and they're teaching 2nd year courses.

~~~
onli
"The saying is that mathematics is the language of god, but until now, no one
has been speaking gods language"

"What we have is the great unifying field theory, with it you can create and
exhaust free energy, end all diseases, produce unlimited food, travel anywhere
in the universe, build the ultimate supercomputer, artificial intelligence,
and obsolete all existing technology."

All in the first minute. I don't think it was _really_ necessary to take the
presentation-style into account...

~~~
X4
wow, that's rad! I should watch that video definately then at some later point
:D haha

------
Florin_Andrei
> _When it was founded, in 1984, TED (which stands for “Technology,
> Entertainment, and Design”) brought together a few hundred people in a
> single annual conference in California. Today, TED is not just an organizer
> of private conferences; it’s a global phenomenon with $45 million in
> revenues._

So, whenever a forum grows beyond a certain limit, junk starts to creep in.

Not a surprise at all. I've seen this happening over and over and over again -
newsgroups, mailing lists, forums, social media, etc.

Once the fat middle of the bell curve sneaks in, quality takes a necessary
dive.

------
kmfrk
Could someone volunteer to grab a screenshot of the Quora thread in question?

Those gated communities are driving me crazy.

~~~
codezero
[http://www.quora.com/TEDx/Is-Randy-Powell-saying-anything-
in...](http://www.quora.com/TEDx/Is-Randy-Powell-saying-anything-in-
his-2010-TEDxCharlotte-talk-or-is-it-just-total-nonsense?share=1)

It's not gated if you add share=1.

~~~
astrodust
Don't people go to jail for things like that?

~~~
nikcub
just don't increment the 1 and you will be safe

~~~
mh-
and if you do increment the 1 and end up with a customer database, don't try
to sell it on IRC

------
afreak
The whole malarkey with TEDx I have found is that organisers in their
respective cities are vetting the topics and attendees while at the same time
are coming from backgrounds that make me question their ability to make
decisions.

Case in point is TEDx Vancouver, which is organised by those with social media
connections. In order to just attend, you have to justify why you should and
the organisers themselves how much worth you are to be within the crowd. Of
course, this par for the course but it is a bit obtuse for me to see myself
having to be judged by people who are good at pulling the heart strings of
others and are capable of having a significant amount of Twitter followers. Do
I need to have a high follower to followed ratio in order to be good enough?

It gets worse here of course because now TED (as in "the TED") has moved
itself from Southern California to here in Vancouver. Everyone started to beat
the drums and say that the city has become relevant once again since the
Olympics, but of course everyone then fails to realise it's a $7,500 event
that you have to buy into. Then again the cost for some tickets during the
games did come close to that amount in some cases.

Some amazing stuff comes out of TED, but with the mayor and social media all
getting excited about it, it's becomes apparent that this event is just a way
for those who can go to wave their phalluses around as a sign of their
"status" in the world.

TED can be a good thing but the way it is approached by those who are not
speaking is just downright deplorable.

------
donretag
For me, when Amanda Palmer did a TED talk, it was the definitive point that
they jumped the shark.

~~~
clicks
You're talking about this TED talk --
[http://www.ted.com/talks/amanda_palmer_the_art_of_asking.htm...](http://www.ted.com/talks/amanda_palmer_the_art_of_asking.html)

What's wrong with it? I thought it was a great TED talk, she makes great
points about new and emerging forms of artist-fan relationships and its
advantages.

~~~
groby_b
She makes completely untenable points, mostly. Read here for a great write-up:
[http://madartlab.com/2013/03/13/amanda-palmer-and-the-
privil...](http://madartlab.com/2013/03/13/amanda-palmer-and-the-privilege-of-
success/)

In a nutshell - it's much easier to rely on donations once somebody else (in
Amanda's case, her label) has done the hard work of making you famous. If
you're an artist with at best local fame, as most artists are, charge for your
music.

~~~
tunesmith
I'm surprised more people don't see this. Releasing your music for free is
only an advantage if you already have a built-in audience, or if you're
something of a first-mover and can benefit from the novelty factor.

But then fast-forward a couple of years and find yourself in a situation where
everyone is releasing free music, and you don't get any kind of visibility
boost for releasing it for free. What you do have is a bunch of people who
feel more entitled in acquiring your product for free.

~~~
dublinben
Who is going to pay for music they've never heard though? Small artists have
to give away their music if they're going to have any chance of breaking out
of obscurity.

~~~
tunesmith
It starts to get more subtle at that point - for instance, finding ways to let
listeners hear the music while still protecting scarcity. In other words,
without the listener feeling like they own it. It's the sort of distinction
that leads to why an artist would sign up for pandora but not spotify.

------
mvkel
What people need to realize is TEDx has very little to do with TED itself.

Anyone can hold a TEDx event as long as they're convincing curators. They
license the TED brand. They can choose anyone as a presenter; the quality is
inherently lower because of this. It's not the fault of TED per se, or its
main organizers.

That said, let us not forget that this year's TED featured dolphins talking to
elephants via Google Hangout. It's all about taking risks!

------
dudus
If you want 45 minutes of pure nonsense don't worry about his TED talk. Go
straight for his videos on YouTube.

eg: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNHvyTIRVjY>

~~~
xk_id
This guy seems to be even more confident:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YN2LBO8wig8>

~~~
eamsen
That's apparently his teacher. Watching this is more painful than watching Max
performing an impromptu trepanning on his right temple with a power drill; at
least his madness had an end.

------
xk_id
This is TEDx. I do not expect to be intellectually impressed, because I know
what that tiny "x" means. On the other hand:

a) I was intrigued from the beginning regarding TED's decision to allow this
kind of events. I was kindof expecting it will blow in their face, sooner or
later.

b) I did find Powell's talk thoroughly entertaining.

Now, what about the infamous Jill Bolte Taylor's stroke of insight? It
overflown with neuroscience misconceptions and outdated, non-scientific
metaphysics. Seeing it on _TED_ was a genuine and huge intellectual
disappointment.

------
snowwrestler
When your community is getting schooled by a thread on reddit and a Forbes
blog post, I think it's pretty clear you've hit rock bottom in terms of
credibility.

------
xk_id
I haven't studied his vortex mathematics thoroughly, but it seems the
"universal numerical pattern" he identified is completely biased towards the
decimal base?

~~~
jordigh
All he did is "discover" a generator of the group of units of the integers
modulo 9, namely, 2. Mod 9, the powers of 2 are 2, 4, 8, 7, 5, 1. The
remaining three numbers modulo 9 he joins in a triangle.

This is all.

~~~
xk_id
I see what you mean :D

------
tekromancr
I am glad to see that I wasn't the only one who thought the Vortex Mathematics
thing was a joke.

~~~
xk_id
I'd be worried to know you had any doubts.

~~~
tekromancr
I didn't have any doubts that it was stupid. I had doubts that the person
performing the talk was genuine.

------
socalnate1
If you think of TEDx as simply a wider funnel for TED.com content, I think it
has been a great success.

I'm surprised to see the HN community so vociferously opposed to TEDx. We are
all basically reading a news website that operates with a similar principle
(wide funnel, with a method to route the best content to the top for wider
distribution).

~~~
libian
yea but we are not paying $6000 reading things on HackerNews. If you are
paying that much money to attend / support a talk, it better be delivering
great quality.

~~~
socalnate1
TEDx events are not very expensive, often they are free for attendees.

TED proper is very expensive, and has consistently high quality. The question
here is if TEDx is hurting TED or not.

------
kalethrowaway
Ah, but we already knew TEDx =/= TED

~~~
dagw
When TEDx hit my town last year, basically everybody I knew called it the "TED
conference" when talking about it. I even did it myself even though I
technically know better. Also all the promo material the organizers put up
made it look like a TED event and made no attempt to explain what TEDx was or
how it differentiated from TED.

------
X4
I am curious on what you people think about the Constructal theory. Please let
me know. <http://www.constructal.org/>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructal_theory>

~~~
kragen
It sounds like nonsense.

------
X4
I've not seen the video, but I am always eager to hear about research that
opens new perspectives to Maths, even when it's wrong. It may serve as an
inspiration or is a waste of time, but that's the cost of advancements in
science.

If you know links to papers or theories of other people that are worth looking
into, let me know. I can't tell if the theories of Mr. Powell have any merit
or foundation. But I'll find out myself after seeing the longish video.

Benoît B. Mandelbrot, Ken Ono and Srinivasa Ramanujan's theories put new
perspectives into our understanding of Maths that goes way beyond what most
people understand. Even those advanced in Maths have difficulties grasping it.

This is my opinion, but I think the research of these and other important
people reveals a Fractal nature in Maths and Physics. What's missing is the
link to Chemisry and Biology. There are relations to fractals and all nature
sciences we don't know about.

Yes, I've actually read the books and papers from these people. Yes there were
a lot of parts I had trouble understanding, but ideas are easy to grasp, their
Mathematical proof is not.

~~~
PavlovsCat
_I am always eager to hear about research that opens new perspectives to
Maths, even when it's wrong_

Sarah Silverman held just the TED talk for you!

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci5p1OdVLAc>

