
Apple Says Right to Repair iPhones Will Turn Nebraska Into a ‘Mecca’ for Hackers - petethomas
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/apple-tells-lawmaker-that-right-to-repair-iphones-will-turn-nebraska-into-a-mecca-for-hackers
======
mikhailt
I was on the Nebraska's side until I saw this, did everyone miss this part or
did the article incorrectly wrote this?

> Right to repair bills in each state require manufacturers to provide
> software tools to bypass locks that prevent repair.

No, sorry. I do agree with companies (not just Apple) with locking down the
security components to ensure no one could just take your device, replace a
few components and give it back without your knowledge. We live in an
increasingly mobile-only world and where such mobile components are getting
more complex, powerful and more information-dense.

We're not talking about a dumb mower that is not storing any of your personal
information, we're talking about a smart phone with complex security systems
in it. Apple has the absolute right to protect it in order to protect your
data, even in the ways that prevents you from repairing it yourself. With this
law, there's no barrier or visible line between your ex replacing parts to
monitor you and you replacing parts to repair it. Apple has a security lock
for a very clear reason, to prevent your ex from doing this.

If you want to repair the broken Touch ID sensor and stuff, take it to Apple
or if there's no store, mail it in.

If you just want to replace the battery or screen, then yes, Apple should be
forced to sell these parts, just not the security related parts. Did the law
clarify this distinction?

~~~
WayneBro
Your entire argument amounts to: Trust Apple and nobody else. What makes you
think that's a good idea?

> We're not talking about a dumb mower that is not storing any of your
> personal information.

Exactly. That's why it's even more important that we be able to repair it
ourselves.

> Apple has the absolute right to protect it in order to protect your data,
> even in the ways that prevents you from repairing your yourself.

There are no absolute rights. There are laws. I trust myself more than Apple
and I don't think there's much you can say to convince me otherwise.

> If you want to repair, take it to Apple or if there's no store, mail it in.

Nope. I'd rather not, thanks! That's why we're going to get this law passed.

~~~
Steko
> Trust Apple and nobody else.

That's a straw man, you've already trusted Apple. The argument is 'trust no
one else' which seems like a good idea.

~~~
tehlike
This. If you dont want apple device, compile aosp from head, or use
cyanogenmod or something.

------
r00fus
Here's the actual legislation [1] (pdf).

Of note, notice the carve-out for automotive industry.

> Sec. 7. Nothing in the Fair Repair Act shall apply to motor vehicle
> manufacturers, any product or service of a motor vehicle manufacturer, or
> motor vehicle dealers.

Why is Nebraska making it easy to repair farm equipment and cell phones but
not cars?

[1]
[http://nebraskalegislature.gov/FloorDocs/105/PDF/Intro/LB67....](http://nebraskalegislature.gov/FloorDocs/105/PDF/Intro/LB67.pdf)

~~~
ilyagr
Do, if Apple becomes or buys a motor vehicle manufacturer, they are exempt? If
their self driving car project gains steam, this is in the realm of
possibility.

------
edko
To save Nebraska, maybe Apple should campaign for similar laws to be passed in
all states; then, there will no incentive for the hackers to move there.

------
tempodox
> You don't have to be afraid of technology—you have to be afraid of the
> people who are trying to prevent you from knowing the things they know.

I think Brasch hit the nail on the head with that.

------
notduncansmith
My understanding of Apple's argument is that currently, it would take a
significant investment of resources to introduce a working hardware
vulnerability to a target device, and that if this ability became commoditized
(and thus viable on a larger scale) the decreased security might cause
irreparable harm in the time it takes us to collectively correct it. Say, a
device that stores screen tap locations and exflitrates as you walk by free
public wifi? Don't know how practical that is but you get the idea. There's no
hardware equivalent of a hash function to verify that what you've acquired is
what you requested. Most people will never take it apart to check or would be
able to spot something amiss if they did.

------
supremesaboteur
> "Apple said we would be the only state that would pass this, and that we
> would become the mecca for bad actors," Brasch, who is sponsoring the bill,
> told me in a phone call. "They said that doing this would make it very easy
> for hackers to relocate to Nebraska."

Oh, they meant the other type of hackers

~~~
zardo
Those nasty electronics repair for hire hackers.

~~~
asdfasfdfasdf
Isn't all this depressing after realizing the origins of Apple. There are no
machines for hackers these days.. it's all "look at the looks of this fancy
UI" today, with _actual_ interaction being all but an afterthought.

It'd be a different, better world if Symbolics had survived... but you know
evolution doesn't quite work that way.

~~~
tmzt
The Homebrew Computing Club would be raided for trafficking in bare
components, such as a novel, hand-soldered motherboard from a tiny company
founded by two guys named Steve.

------
exabrial
I'm very rarely for new regulations (very much libertarian and conservative),
but this is one issue I will gladly "reach across the isle" on. In the end
it'll spur all the things I like: small businesses, competition, market
diversity, and innovation.

~~~
dmix
One of the issues is that this is a state policy and may act as a deterrent
for global companies wanting to sell products within the state. It may very
well be easier to just skip Nebraska and focus resources elsewhere. Especially
for low margin electronics products.

I'm sure Apple has enough resources to follow through with this but not all
companies can afford the lawyers and special operations centers to appease
local regulatory laws in a single state. Just look around you house and
consider how many electronics came from a low budget Chinese vendor.

I'm all for state rights but the costs should always be considered.

As Thomas Sowell said: "Economics is not about good intentions and hopes. It's
about cause and effect".

For ex: US Chamber of Commerce just posted this article that 1/3 of small
businesses surveyed said they hire less people because of health care costs.
It's easy not to spare a tear for big companies. But the real victim of
regulatory burden is not mega corps its the small businesses who account for
50% of all employment in the US and 90% of businesses are SMB.

[https://www.uschamber.com/above-the-fold/small-businesses-
te...](https://www.uschamber.com/above-the-fold/small-businesses-tell-
congress-they-can-t-afford-obamacare)

~~~
stonogo
Are you seriously saying you think Apple or HTC would stop selling things to
Nebraskans? How's Apple gonna stop Amazon from sending iPhones to Omaha? eBay?
Are they going to instruct Best Buy employees to demand proof-of-residence in
neighboring states to prevent those conniving cornhuskers from replacing their
batteries?

~~~
dmix
> Are you seriously saying you think Apple or HTC would stop selling things to
> Nebraskans?

I literally just said Apple isn't the one who will have trouble affording to
pay for these regulations. And that it's difficult to spare a tear for a big
company.

Reread my comment.

~~~
sverige
How many small manufacturers make a large percentage of their income by having
a lock-in on repairs to their proprietary hardware? I'm having a hard time
understanding who these little companies are that you're worried will be
harmed by this law.

~~~
dmix
If only it was just this one law.

81 major regulations were added each year on average under the Obama
administrations 8 years. Major was defined as costing over $100 million each.

The federal register recording legislation has exploded to 75,000 pages from
20,000 a few decades ago.

There are plenty of statistics which show the level of downward pressure
regulation puts on small business. This isnt just mega corps wanting to dump
chemicals in rivers. It's death by a thousand cuts to reach some ideal perfect
consumer marketplace through extensive administrative oversight.

Meanwhile the number of people are starting small businesses has declined
significantly and GDP growth has totally stagnated.

It's not a mistake that small business optimism index reached the highest
point in decades (since 1980) after Trump announced major regulatory reform.

~~~
stonogo
None of the things you're talking about appear to have any documented
connections to any of the other things.

~~~
dmix
> Recently, the National Small Business Association released a survey, the
> 2017 Small Business Regulations Survey, which showed that the average small-
> business owner is spending at least $12,000 every year dealing with
> regulations.

> When asked to estimate their businesses’ first-year regulatory costs, the
> average fee was a whopping $83,019! Nearly one-third of small-business
> owners spend more than 80 hours each year complying with federal
> regulations.

> This burden is becoming a barrier to entrepreneurship and a likely driver in
> the lagging start-up rates we’ve seen in recent years.

> More than half of small businesses have held off on hiring a new employee
> due to regulatory burdens.

[http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/economy-
budget/317308-...](http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/economy-
budget/317308-trumps-regulatory-rollback-a-relief-to-small-business)

All of these are connected:

\- the business environment (taxation, regulatory burden, availability of
capital) influence the number of people starting businesses

\- small businesses already struggle with regulations, especially anyone doing
hardware consumer electronics products

\- plenty of new major regulations were getting added each year

\- the federal register tracks regulations, which is growing in size very fast

\- therefore the effect of this new forced repairs regulation would only add
to the burden on small electronics companies, making it hard to start them up
and compete with the big firms

\- small business optimism has been connected to anticipation of the
regulatory environment. Regulations must always be factored into to future
business planning, it creates a lot of risk to know new ones get added all the
time. Not every industry is effected but a big chunk of them do and likely
influence the optimism index.

------
EliRivers
It is so telling that when we [1] read this headline, we thought Apple was
saying how great this would be for Nebraska; that Apple is suggesting Nebraska
can boost its economy and profile by becoming a hub for technological
innovation.

Turns out they're trying to scare Nebraska into _not_ doing it.

Doug Barnes, of course, told us all along that Apple was hostile to hackers.

[1] Or at least, "I"; I'm hoping it applies to other people as well.

------
Silhouette
This seems to be about the most reasonable legislative idea I've seen in tech
in years. It's not surprising that Apple don't like it, but I don't think
anyone expected them to, and the desperation and implausibility of the
arguments they're presenting against it just reinforces how reasonable the
changes would be.

I did laugh slightly at the part where the Apple rep discovered they were
dealing with an elected representative who actually was technical and actually
would defend their position.

------
prodmerc
The whole planned obsolescence and recently "repairs/modifications only by
authorized companies" is utter bullshit. At least it's easier to stop buying
Crapple than John Deere.

~~~
eganist
The latter may actually be illegal given this:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act)

------
HugoDaniel
The ideology in their logic: "Mecca" is bad because muslims are bad. Hackers
are bad because they "think different" about your intended use for the
technology.

"Apple said we would be the only state that would pass this, and that we would
become the mecca for bad actors," (implying that hackers are bad actors)

"They said that doing this would make it very easy for hackers to relocate to
Nebraska." (implying that Mecca is where bad people go)

Its good to know some things never change[0]

[0] [http://cdn.cultofmac.com/wp-
content/uploads/2014/06/a2origin...](http://cdn.cultofmac.com/wp-
content/uploads/2014/06/a2original.jpg)

~~~
indlebe
You're projecting this ideology onto Apple.

Out of all of the places that people make pilgrimages to, Mecca is the most
well known, and therefore commonly used to refer to a place that's popular for
likeminded followers to visit. E.g:It's very common in Canada for marijuana
enthusiasts to refer to Vancouver as the Mecca of pot in Canada. There's no
negativity in that phrase at all.

~~~
Fricken
I think you're underestimating how carefully Apple chooses it's words when
it's crafting these one-line public statements. When they use an ambiguously
charged word like 'Mecca', they have carefully worked through every possible
sub-text that might be associated with it, and if they use the word, then they
are intentional about having those subtexts be associated with their
statements.

They could have said that 'right to repair legislation will turn Nebraska into
a _hub_ for Hackers', but that's not what they said.

~~~
indlebe
>When they use an ambiguously charged word like 'Mecca'

I don't believe mecca is an ambiguously charged word, nor do I see any
evidence to support this claim. It's probably the most commonly used metaphor
for a gathering place of like-minded individuals, and was the perfect choice
in this context.

------
mcphage
Um... good?

~~~
mikeash
Right? I saw the headline and thought, awesome! Wait... they think that's an
argument _against_ , don't they.

------
vacri
Suitably facetious counter-argument for the facetious Mecca statement: Well,
given that the Hajj is over a million folks per year and Nebraska only has two
million people, being that Mecca would bring in a ton of tourist money and
employment opportunities. A huge economic windfall for the state.

------
elastic_church
They could also just stop selling in Nebraska because nobody cares.

~~~
edko
There is this guy in Omaha, the one whose company owns over 57 million Apple
shares, who might care.

~~~
elastic_church
Even a shareholder would care about impact to revenues more than his ability
to get an iphone from a neighboring state

But nice try, turns out you can also own shares of foreign corporations that
do no business anywhere near you, so there goes the basis for that argument

~~~
edko
I do not see how stopping the sale of iPhones in Nebraska would help Apple
solve the potential loss of revenue from the new competition in the repairs
market. The main thing it would do is reduce sales revenue. I think every
shareholder (based in Nebraska or otherwise) would be concerned about that.

------
devoply
Steve Mobs would be proud.

------
rasz_pl
What is the difference between Apple Authorized iPhone Repair and Independent
Repair?:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2Vz6FwoXUE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2Vz6FwoXUE)

Turns out some of those bills were practically written by Apple lobbyists -
they are worded in a way to "let you do as much as Apple certified Repair",
which as this video shows means it lets you mail in your broken stuff to Apple
... :(

------
meanduck
From the article:

> _Right to repair bills, which are currently making their way through eight
> states (Nebraska, New York, Tennessee, Wyoming, Minnesota, Kansas, Illinois,
> and Massachusetts), would require electronics manufacturers to make repair
> parts and diagnostic and repair manuals available to independent repair
> professionals and consumers, not just "authorized" repair companies._

This seems like forcing Apple rather than releasing consumers. Just another
example of over interfering Govts.

~~~
prodmerc
IMO it's a very good law for the population/nation/citizens. Ignoring that it
will help small businesses, being able to do what you want with the things you
bought should be a right, not a privilege. The government exists for stuff
like this. If they don't interfere, then what?

Your car stops working because you haven't made your mandatory overpriced
yearly checkup? Sounds neat

Also having access to at least service manuals (if not complete schematics)
can help repair and reuse electronics, which is great for the environment, low
wage workers/families and developing nations in general.

~~~
meanduck
> _IMO it 's a very good law for the population/nation/citizens._

But this is how Govts make enemies in business communities. Actions like these
what made China 2nd most wealthy nation in record time.

> _Ignoring that it will help small businesses._

How ? Common sense tell me this will put more legal requirements; those are
never fun.

> _being able to do what you want with the things you bought should be a
> right, not a privilege_

Absolutely. But this _forces_ Apple/others. It does not release customers from
restrictions. If there are such any restrictions, Govts would be with in their
rights to make such user/customer agreements unenforcable. But again, thats
what not happening here.

> _Your car stops working because you haven 't made your mandatory overpriced
> yearly checkup? Sounds neat_

How about you look for more favourable company ? But you know thats what
people do. Such anti-customer corporations you are describing does not last
for long in the market unless ofcourse Govts are helping them in someway, as
the history shows.

> _Also having access to at least service manuals (if not complete schematics)
> can help repair and reuse electronics, which is great for the environment,
> low wage workers /families and developing nations in general_

Irrelevent. You are curbing liberties. Thats the argument against the law.

~~~
prodmerc
The government is for all people not only businesses.

Small businesses providing repair services is what I meant, but it could also
help businesses keep costs low by repairing stuff themselves.

BTW, I'm not only talking about Apple with this right to repair stuff, I'm
talking about every company. Companies that make devices everyone lives with
and depends on, and they want to retain control of them even though people pay
the full price not for renting, but _owning_.

Yeah you can look for another company. Do it before they're driven out of
business or acquired by the established ones. Or you can force corporations to
do something that will benefit the population.

Liberties of the corporations. Well, companies really need some restrictions
right now. The chase for growth and profits is insane and will fuck up the
majority of people and this planet pretty soon.

You sound either like a multi-millionaire CEO or a brainwashed person who
believes he's gonna be a millionaire someday. Well, guess what, if you're
middle to low class, the odds you'll strike it big are quite low (and they're
getting lower every year).

~~~
stuaxo
I'm not sure why "pro business" always seems to mean pro-big corporate.

They already have huge advantages, having laws that even the field and allow
smaller businesses seems much more pro-business to me.

------
nakedrobot2
Microsoft has become less evil than Apple in the mindshare of the "technical
folks" these days. This is pretty amazing!

I am very quickly starting to lose any sympathy for apple as they turn from a
great product company into a financially engineered entity without a trace of
real innovation. With a full-on user-hostile attitude, to boot.

~~~
prodigal_erik
I'm always surprised people see this as a recent trend. If a machine has no
expansion ports and the case is sealed with the weirdest screws they could
find, it was meant to be an appliance for consumers rather than a tool for
people.

~~~
gaius
They are the same screws BMW uses for wingmirrors.

~~~
trome
Mhmm, and BMW isn't well known as a pinnacle of open, easy to repair cars
either. Usually you end up pulling apart the whole front end on your beamer
for something that'd take a few minutes to fix/replace on most other cars.

~~~
gaius
I just mention that incase anyone is wondering what tool to Google for ;-)

