
Apple announces iTunes 10 with Ping Social Network - shadow
http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/01/apple-announces-itunes-10/
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gyardley
Can I please have an application that just does the one simple thing it's
supposed to? I feel like soon both iTunes and GMail are going to try to order
my groceries for me.

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SandB0x
Not an Emacs user, I take it?

~~~
elcron
I consider emacs more of OS/environment rather than an application... but I've
started to become an emacs addict over the past year.

~~~
sz
"a great operating system, lacking only a decent editor"

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SandB0x
This is the most highly monetized social network possible. Direct advertising
to your friends, with a Buy button right there in your status.

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keltex
Apple really is amazing. We keep thinking they are going to go after the usual
suspects like Google, Microsoft, and RIM. Now they are aiming their guns at
Facebook. Mark Zuckerberg must not be happy.

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patrickk
I would say Last.fm is closer to the centre of Apple's crosshairs

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nphase
Also, Rdio

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mitjak
Huge gaps in the catalogue.

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leviathant
Given how poorly iTunes 9 runs on my quad-core Win7 machine with gigs and gigs
of ram, I'm not particularly excited by this news. Wake me up when they've
completely rebuilt iTunes. The only reason I keep it around is for my iPhone -
I've switched to Zune (of all things) as my music manager, and actually quite
like most of how it organizes things.

On a less grumpy note, the $99 Apple TV they just launched is pretty smooth
looking, the only thing I feel grumbly about regarding that is the absence of
Hulu. But that's a topic for a different thread...

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tvon
It's kind of amusing how bad iTunes is on Windows, all while Apple talks about
how writing for a meta-platform produces lower quality software. It doesn't
even _look_ good, IMO, at least not compared to running natively on OSX.

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jbrennan
I think it proves their point pretty well. Cross-platform-kits equal sub-par
experiences almost every time.

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tvon
Well, iTunes isn't really built for a cross-platform kit, it is primarily
built for OSX with a compatibility layer for Windows where needed (I think)...
at least the shortcomings only really show up under Windows, under OSX it's a
big app but generally runs well (speaking for myself here).

But, my point is that you'd think a company that knows how much ported/meta-
platform apps suck would try to avoid it by making iTunes for Windows (along
with QuickTime and Safari) look and feel less like OSX apps wedged into
Windows and more like "good Windows citizens".

Granted, iTunes for Windows is pretty old, and it's possible Apple's struggles
with it contributed to the decision to ban 3rd party toolkits from iOS.

(Or Apple just doesn't give a shit about Windows and is annoyed they have to
cater to it at all, which is why all their Windows software kinda sucks.)

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simonsquiff
It's interesting that this is only for music. You can see this being just as
applicable for movies and tv shows - and of course apps. Presumably this is a
toe in the water and they'll extend it if it works. But this certainly has
lots of potential for extension.

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Timothee
Absolutely. The choice of "Ping" for its name, rather than a more music-
centric name might indicate they're keeping the door open to extend it to the
whole store. (I'll add books to your list)

edit: one good reason I see to start off with music (besides the fact that it
makes sense for iTunes) is that it's more common in the music industry to
"follow" an artist, than it is for TV or movies. So, right from the start
anybody will have people to follow while they're building their friends
network.

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patrickk
" _I'll add books to your list_ "

I bet 'gifting' people in your Ping friends network with music (and apps,
books later on) will be a profitable feature for Ping, when Apple implements
it.

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Timothee
Funny because I meant that in the sense that simonsquiff didn't mention the
books in his comment, but you're right.

When gifting right now, I don't think you have any way to know if the
recipient has or not the song/app. I haven't gifted songs too much, so I'm not
sure what happens in that case. Ping might be able to avoid this situation.

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patrickk
Gifting will do away with those Apple vouchers you can buy to the vale of 10
bucks or whatever for your friend. Instead, you can get them the song
directly.

A ready-made social network, all the network infrastructure in place, users
with credit cards at the ready, owned by a highly successful tech
multinational....the recommendation on APPL is 'buy'!

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acon
I think this will be the most monetarily successful social network yet. While
Facebook has a huge mindshare I don't think they are very good at turning that
mindshare into money in their own coffers.

Apple is really good at daring to ask for money for their services. While
other companies often rely on ads or even more nebulous ways of making money,
Apple just asks their users to pay money.

I really like this model of paying for what I get. I means that I am the
customer, and not the product.

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aphistic
One of these days I hope they'll add the ability for me to sync my iPhone to
iTunes at home and listen to it on another PC (most specifically the office)
from my iPhone via iTunes without some horrible hack and manually managing my
music collection.

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ZeroGravitas
I was under the impression that this already worked.

You can't copy the files off (without some 3rd party software) but I thought
you could browse and play via iTunes. I remember it being clunky enough that
you might not want to do it regularly but I thought it worked for playing a
couple of tunes.

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aphistic
I haven't been able to figure it out if you can. In order to see the music and
actually play it (where it's not grayed out and unclickable) I have to set my
music to be manually managed on my PC at home, then I need to get the iTunes
library key from the file at home and inject it into the right spot in the
same file on any other PC I want to listen to the music on.

I actually just stopped putting music on my iPhone because it was too much of
a hassle to do every time that key changed. I just use Pandora or GrooveShark
now instead.

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whakojacko
Its going to be interesting to see what effect this has on last.fm ...It
doesnt have appear to have my favorite last.fm feature, scrobbling, but I
admit I use last.fm little besides that. Particular, the fact that it ties in
to iTunes purchases could be very popular.

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timmaah
LastFm allows me to listen to music I don't own.. legally.. Doesn't appear
itunes does that.

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ThomPete
This is how Apple rolls and I must say I am impressed although it was
expected.

They have long been sitting on one of the strongest and certainly most
profitable "social" networks.

Now they have used it to do one of the most classical goals in business.
Profit maximization.

I don't even think this is something other companies can learn much from as
most seem to be walking around like lemmings trying to incorporate features to
grow their (non-paying) following.

Be patient for growth not for profit as Clayton Christensen says.

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scott_s
You say it was expected, yet I heard no one predict it.

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ThomPete
Well I can't speak for everyone, but I certainly did.

It was also known that apple where buying into this space. Will see if I can
find the reference.

And I will make another prediction. Apple will have to take on Spotify once
they reach momentum in the US (and I think they will with time)

In other words iTunes music is going to turn into a streaming music service at
some point.

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steveklabnik
> It was also known that apple where buying into this space. Will see if I can
> find the reference.

You're thinking of the LaLa acquisition, maybe?
[http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/04/apple-kills-lala-
musi...](http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/04/apple-kills-lala-music-
service/)

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ThomPete
Yes but also this.

[http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/12/apples-reported-
lala-...](http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/12/apples-reported-lala-talks-
could-lead-to-cheaper-cloud-based-itunes/)

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benologist
Facebook must be crapping themselves a little - games, music, video and all
the social aspects tied into a piece of software that's deeply integrated into
a ton of people's lives.

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zppx
But Facebook has a client accessible in every platform out there and it is
even accessible by a common browser, whereas with Ping I will need iTunes or
an Apple device/software to use, also it probably will not have an API.

I think Apple is just making things to profit more as a content distributor
that it is becoming, Ping and the new AppleTV is just pointing in this
direction, at least for me.

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benologist
A lot of people already have iTunes ... not to mention with 230,000 new iOS
activations a day they're coming pre-armed with massive traction.

They could take it in a whole lot of different directions _but_ nothing about
iTunes is aimed at filling some tiny little niche. Why would they bother
aiming so low now?

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zppx
Sure there are ways to Apple amass a large user base with Ping, but I think it
is hard to fight with the extensible, and relatively open, Facebook that can
be accessed from any browser, I see no point for someone that does not use
iTunes Store, an iOS device or iTunes installing iTunes only to use Ping.

I think that initially Apple does want to use it to profit more with areas
that they already are strong and also gather some experience running a social
network, and them expanding it, maybe with user media sharing and an API. I
think games and apps will be a next focus areas for Ping.

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benologist
Of course it'd be a hard fight. But that it'd be a fight at all makes them
1000x more dangerous than anything else in the last few years.

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chaosmachine
It's funny to see them positioning it as "like Facebook and Twitter for
music", as if MySpace never existed.

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WiseWeasel
It really does look a lot more like Facebook than MySpace. You basically have
a Facebook wall of all the people you follow, not some kind of customized site
you can design from scratch, like the mess that was MySpace.

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hack_edu
MySpace was created for and, early on, largely marketed to bands who wanted a
simple page with a place to feature music. It only caught on with the public
as a secondary.

Now, bands are pretty much the only people who still use the platform at all.

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ABrandt
Where did you learn that MySpace was created for bands? Wikipedia states that
they just explicitly copied the most popular features of friendster.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MySpace#History>

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danilocampos
I'm skeptical about Apple doing a social media platform, yet iTunes is a
perfect trojan horse. It might not even have to be good to succeed.

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WiseWeasel
Do people associate using iTunes with social networking, however? Are you
going to fire up iTunes to socialize with your friends on your Ping wall? Are
you even going to invite your friends to your Ping contacts? Or are you simply
going to keep using Facebook to post about that new album you just got that
you really like?

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danilocampos
Existing association may not matter, though. Consider that iTunes began as an
MP3 player app. Full stop. That's all it was. At some point they added support
for loading your songs onto portable MP3 players, but I don't remember if that
was in 1.0 (this was pre-iPod).

Then they added a store, which wasn't a huge leap, but there's a difference
between listening to music and shopping for music, even though one can drive
the other.

Then they added movie and TV purchases. Not a huge leap from buying music, but
nothing at all to do with managing your MP3s.

Then they added syncing your iPhone, which has a multitude of features
entirely unrelated anything anyone did in iTunes before. But, hey, you need to
sync your music, too.

THEN, App syncing and purchase.

I'm sure I'm missing a feature or two in the chronology, but you get the
point.

iTunes has a rich history of having seemingly unrelated shit jammed into it.
Sometimes there are alternatives for what iTunes can offer (Netflix Watch
Instantly, Amazon MP3 Store) and sometimes you're locked in (iOS device sync).

But either way, Apple seems to get away with it. The trojan horsiness of
iTunes gives them leverage to accomplish things that would be much, much
harder for other companies.

We'll see if that holds for Ping. I wouldn't bet against it, even if I
wouldn't put much money on outrageous success, either.

Hopefully iTunes 10 will at least be more performant. All this cruft has come
with a cost.

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tomjen3
Bah, they should get their ass together and release an update to their iPods
so that you could manage your music without having to use their bloated crap.

You know, like the standards that apple talk about so much.

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doron
Did Apple just shot Myspace in the face? execution style?

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sz
That was my first thought. Myspace Music is dead, it's not really about
Facebook.

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bjelkeman-again
Ping, only accessible from within iTunes? Not a web interface at all? That is
surprising to me. I can't participate unless I have an iPhone/iPod
Touch/computer with my iTunes installed.

Also, he mentioned showing what my friends have purchased. I am more
interested in what they are playing right now or are playing overall,
regardless of where it came from. iTunes and iPods have been successful
because it isn't restricted to only content purchased in the iTunes store, but
now they are focusing hard on the iTunes store content only?

I can't see that this is going to be as successful as if they had a more open
mind about it. What about the MP3s I buy from Amazon or CDs (or whatever) and
load on my iTunes? Only tracking what comes from the iTunes store is like
navel gazing. I think they miss the big picture that way.

Or maybe I am just old fashioned. :)

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elblanco
Yay! More bloat!

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Setsuna
Is this available in all countries?

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Keyframe
I really enjoyed that "open standards" event, which was broadcast via HTML5
that only worked in Safari and on Mac.

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tzs
Didn't they submit this format for standardization a year or so ago? If so,
you can't blame Apple that others have not implemented it.

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gecko
Is that also your stance towards OfficeXML?

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pmjordan
In fairness, it's a lot easier to implement than OfficeXML - it's basically
HTML + dynamic M3U playlists + MPEG. OfficeXML is more or less a core dump of
Word/Excel/Whatever serialised as XML.

