

Hackerspaces - nir
http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/Hacker_Spaces

======
rtw
I am not trying to be super cynical here, but...

The problem I see with this kind of thing is that it looks like it would
probably be against someone's self interest to make too much of an investment
in (by hanging out there, possibly paying up for it). Because it could be a
big time-suck.

It is not possible to have a good or meaningful relationship with everyone,
especially if you have a busy life already (non-computer friends, family, work
etc.). So we discriminate. Not in the surface-sense, but the more you get to
know someone you discriminate on future potential from the relationship.

In the context of hacking on things together or shooting the shit about
computer etc: some people are not in the same place at all.

After talking with someone (sometimes, even for a minute or two) you could
determine that they a) don't know crap about computers, b) seem to be good
company, or c) are way more experienced than you.

B and C are cool, but in this context I'd really worry about meeting a lot of
people that don't program for a living, etc. It's all a question of balance, I
don't mind "teaching" someone something at all, but I can't move forward if
that is going to take up my whole day (unless I am trying to move forward as a
teacher which I am not).

I meet "computer people" at coffeeshops all the time (for three years I worked
full time as a coffeeshop-inhabitating programmer). I always tended to like
the people fine enough socially etc. in our "half-relationships", and even
made a friend.

But by far the majority of the computer conversations were not anything
interesting to me because I was "beyond" that level. Hmm, "beyond"... I am
trying really hard to not make this about any kind of hierarchy -- I fully
appreciate that there is a rich world of ideas and concepts out there that I
am a beginner in. But if someone's asking you how to do something that is
answerable in a "I'm feeling lucky" google query... I tend to not try to go
out of my way to be have lasting "computer relationships" with them.

Online mechanisms allow you to have some control over who you spend time
talking with and it's much easier to arrive at a good balance.

I'm very interested in opposing opinions (especially from people with busy
lives).

~~~
the_goat
Newsflash bro: meatspace is messy and relationships take work.

~~~
rtw
I was talking about the specific plan to monetarily support such a place.
Seems like it would be a time suck to engage in this kind of place a lot --
and therefore the self interest it takes to get people to "buy in" and help
isn't there.

Your comment, it doesn't address anything I've said. I'm well aware that
relationships take work and that is central to my point: sometimes that work
isn't worth it.

Consider the "Grandma" in your life, the person you love to help set up their
computer, come over to troubleshoot, etc. What a sweet lady.

Now imagine there are ten of these people in your life. Now imagine they start
loving computers and tell you all about the cool new stuff they found, etc.
Now imagine you have _no_ other relation to them other than these
conversations. And they love starting such conversations.

------
jackowayed
That's a cool idea. A place you can go, hack, talk about your ideas, get help
debugging, get suggestions, hear about new languages/frameworks/libraries,
etc.

The issue I see is getting it to happen. A hackerspace won't be cheap or
particularly easy to setup.

You have to rent (or happen to own) the space. You have to pay for power,
heat/AC, and Internet every month. You have to buy seating.

It's a cool concept, and I really hope that some people actually go to the
effort and expense of actually making it happen.

~~~
tptacek
People far, far dumber than us have pulled this off before.

~~~
noahlt
Forgive my ignorance, but: who?

~~~
catch23
probably all those people running coworking facilities. There are people who
pay, and there are those who just show up and mooch. But somehow they're able
to stay alive. In SF, there's the Hat factory & Citizen Space. I've only been
to Citizen Space as a non-paying resident, but it amazes me how those places
manage to survive in general.

~~~
noahlt
So, if I understand correctly, there's basically no difference between
"hackerspaces" and "coworking facilities". Except maybe that coworking
facilities already exist and work.

~~~
RobGR
Both hackerspaces and coworking facilities are kind of operating on the "gym
membership" model, where a lot of membership fees are pooled to get something
that is shared but no one could afford to buy for just their own use.

However the people there don't totally overlap, any more than they totally
overlap with Gold's Gym, TechShop, a Country Club, Hunting Lodges, organic co-
ops, or any of the other things that people do in the same pattern.

Co-workers are there to make money, mostly either by freelancing or by doing a
startup. They have in common that they have rejected (or been rejected by) the
large corporate organization, and that their work consists mainly of typing on
a keyboard and looking at a screen (instead of shaping metal or cooking food
or something), so they have similar facilities requirements.

Hackers might like to make money, but the primary goals of the endeavor are
expansion of ability and knowledge. Thus, hackerspaces can succeed, and then
completely disappear as people wander off; they tend to have more counter-
culture type themes; people often live there; since the part of hacking that
is typing on keyboards and looking at screens is easy to do from home, the
stuff in the hackerspace tends to be the stuff that needed money and physical
space, so there is more hardware crap all over; and a portion of the people
are generally interested in hacking human society in various ways, leading to
the political interests and "hacktivism" and etc.

Both hackerspaces and coworking facilities are not new. HQ and BusinessSuites
and many hotels are essentially more expensive co-working facilities with less
emphasis on community, and the insurers who agreed to do all their business at
Loyld's coffee house in 1600s London or the lawyers who all worked from the
Inner Temple Inn even before that must have been doing something similar. I am
pretty sure that CoD had a loft hackerspace in Boston in the early 1990s, and
I know of a few other shared apartments and houses that were hackerspaces for
a few years.

The basic idea is, if you want to do something, and you can't drop the cash to
do it yourself, see if you can find some like-minded friends. "Co-founders" is
what they are called in the startup context.

------
c3o
I've spent lots of time at Metalab, the hacker space in Vienna
(<http://metalab.at/wiki/English>) -- I initially met all my current startup
co-founders there, made dozens of good friends, worked on several
collaborative projects, held and attended workshops, etc.

I'm sure there's lots of variety among all those spaces listed on the site --
apart from Metalab, I've so far only been to three others (C4 in Cologne,
CCC-B in Berlin and Noisebridge in SF), but all of those would be excellent
places to find likeminded people to work on projects together -- which is
especially important in places that aren't otherwise known as startup or
technology hubs, like Vienna.

They're not necessarily the best places to actually work at (too much going
on, people coming and going, using it socially rather than for productivity),
but if you're in a city lucky enough to have one and you've never checked it
out, you're definitely missing out.

The only thing I dislike is when routine sets in and it starts turning into a
hangout for a rather static group of friends -- openness is an extremely
important property to prevent that from happening. So look up the one nearest
to you and go knock on their door: I'm sure it'll be worth your time. And if
there's none nearby and you got a year or so, consider starting one ;)

------
arram
For San Francisco people - noisebridge recently opened a few feet from 16th
st. BART station.

<https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/NoiseBridge>

------
RobGR
I would be interested in talking with anyone who is thinking of forming a
hackerspace in Austin, Texas or nearby.

While I am interested in a hacking space for hacking's sake, I also think
there is a lot of un-exploited economic potential in doing certain things in a
"co-op" or similar structure. The "co-working" spaces such as Conjunctured are
developments in that direction. I think another good example is the TechShop
in San Francisco (I have never been there).

All the people who are freelancing or contracting while trying to get some
sort of start up off the ground, which includes a surprisingly large number of
people even outside of this focused web site, have very similar needs and
costs. A cheap place to work, possibly cheap hosting or a server room, a nice
place to present to possible clients and investors, access to people with
useful skills, etc.

Anything that is a cost to you, that you can reduce, increases how far you can
go self-funded and makes you minimally self-sustaining at a lower level. If
those costs can be reduced by sharing in any way, you come out ahead. If you
can take all those overhead costs and have them handled at least initially by
a monthly fee to a co-op of a couple of hundred bucks, it should often work
out for the better.

Of course not everyone has the same needs, and finding a location that is
cheap and located close enough to enough people might be tough.

------
strlen
Doesn't seem to be one in Peninsula/South Bay. Several coffee shops
(particularly Coupa in Palo Alto, Red Rock / Dana Street in Mtn View) come
close, but as others have pointed out coffee shops are less focused, aren't
24/7 and (to me this is most important) don't offer much of a chance to talk
to people you don't already know.

Is there an interest in an ad-hoc _hack time_ for anyone in that area at one
of the local places?

~~~
kragen
What do you think about TechShop?

~~~
strlen
Looks promising, but a) it seems more of a hardware/mechanics/electronics
organization, am I correct b) the membership fee seems somewhat high (or
rather _would be_ somewhat high if I only made use of this space for
software/development, but it's very good deal for the
machinery/mechanical/electronic hacking!). I'll check it out eventually - I've
an interest in mechanics as well (car and motorcycle tuning) but it isn't as
extensive as my interest in software hacking (as my alias suggests ;-)).

------
martythemaniak
Its a pretty cool idea, I should drop by and check it out some time.

Toronto's HackLab also happens to be several stores down from the local pot
cafe. A coincidence I am sure...

~~~
st3fan
Well, the hacklab in Toronto is located in Kensington Market, so I am not
surprised about it being close to a pot cafe :-) I'm more interested in the
Moonbean Coffee Company though, which is around the corner. Delicious coffee
and pastries made with love :-)

I hang out at the toronto hacklab quite often. As a member I sometimes sit
there during the week when I get bored of the home office. It is nice to have
some company when you mostly work solo. I'm mostly doing software and it is
nice to chat to folks about that in real life.

On tuesdays there is open night and everybody is welcome. For me that is more
a social thing. It is just great to hang out with people who have similar
interests. Or even completely different interests!

We are trying to do more stuff together but it is hard. There is a Python
night for people learning Python and I am thinking of starting an iPhone night
to get some people together there to work on iPhone stuff. Probably not a
shared iPhone project. But even just having a bunch of iPhone coders in the
same room will be lots of fun. Order some pizza, do demos and presentations,
etc. Fun!

S.

------
asnyder
Just took a look at some of the New York City hackerspaces and came across
ITP, "Membership fee approximately $60,000 over two years." Somehow I don't
think it's worth it.

~~~
noahlt
I'm assuming that's anomalous. ITP is part of NYU, and if you check their
website you find that "ITP is a two-year graduate program located in the Tisch
School of the Arts […]" so suddenly that doesn't seem so unreasonable.

That being said, I'm not sure it belongs on that list. ;-)

------
antiform
If you're in the East Bay, there's Berkeley Coworking
(<http://www.berkeleycoworking.com/>) near the Ashby BART station. It's not
all techies, and not open all the time, but it's a damn good place to get some
work done.

------
gaius
The one in London seems to be for so-called "hacktivists", not people who just
want to code. I'll pass.

~~~
rw
If you "just want to code" then you fail. The reason to hack is to build,
explore and _fulfill your passions._

From "the one in London"'s website:

"The London Hacklabs Collective is a group of people interested in using
technology to bring about social change. We establish, develop and run
Hacklabs - political spaces used for independent media, the promotion of free
software and other emancipatory technologies. Hacklabs are places to share
skills, to learn and to teach."

Are you scared?

~~~
enki
well, the one in vienna (metalab) is explicitly unpolitical, and nb in sf is
exclusively about doing stuff too.

obviously there are different interpretations of what hackspaces are about,
ranging from "infrastructure for projects" to "political space".

------
shimon
See also: <http://blog.coworking.info/>

These hacker spaces seem to be more hardware-hacker-focused (rather than
webgeeks-in-an-office-focused) but it's a similar concept with similar
challenges.

------
nirmal
I know there's a hackers group in Atlanta that meets on Tuesday nights in
Midtown. Is there a new space or are people still meeting at Octane?

~~~
alexrudnick
Still at Octane! Tuesday nights, come hang out :)

(we likely won't be around this week, though)

\-- Alex from atlhack.org

------
sh1mmer
This is awesome for me as I just discovered a Hack Space about 10 minutes walk
from my house. HN continues to deliver :)

------
arjunb
surprised that there's only one space in sf (<https://www.noisebridge.net/>) -
has anyone been there?

~~~
antiform
I haven't been to noisebridge (yet), but from the people I've talked to at
relatively large events like SuperHappyDevHouse, there's a quite a few
smaller, informal groups of hackers getting together to work on stuff. It's
just that most of these occur in peoples' apartments, so they're not open to
the public. If you're interested in finding some place like this, though, I
recommend you try and meet people somewhere like SHDH.

------
tectonic
I'm pretty excited about this.

------
ahoyhere
This has strong parallels to the coworking movement. Most of the coworking
spaces offer drop-ins at a day rate, and the chief bonus is the support of the
community (not just getting out of the house). All the prominent ones are
self-sustaining.

Linkies:

<http://coworking.pbwiki.com/>

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coworking>

<http://blog.coworking.info/>

And two spaces run by two of my very best friends: Indy Hall in Philly
(<http://independentshall.com/>) and New Work City in NYC
(<http://www.nwcny.com/>).

Indy Hall is especially interesting wrt the hackerspaces post because it has a
fascinating project/LLC called Indy Hall Labs (<http://labs.indyhall.org/>)
set up to handle collaborations between IH members.

------
ahoyhere
Also, as an American transplanted in Vienna, I am very much not surprised to
see that Austria leads the list with per-capita hackerspace density.

One of the interesting elements (that I suspect nobody here on Hacker News
will mention) is government support.

As somebody else said, coworking kinda follows the gym membership model and
hackerspaces are by nature more transitory, ephemeral, and more likely to
"just go away" if people "wander off."

Austria, and the city of Vienna specifically, set aside a fairly significant
budget for supporting local cultural projects and ones that advance
Austria/Vienna in socio/economic/cultural ways.

Thus, for example, metalab has a primo location right by the Rathaus (city
hall) that they could never afford if the city didn't support them. And Net
Culture Lab is in the MuseumsQuartier, the very apex of hip govt-funded
culture.

~~~
alphabet
True, there is a annual budget for digital arts and culture from the
administration of Vienna and the Metalab gained some funding. Of course this
helped/helps to GTD faster (e.g. renovation work) but our hackerspace was
founded without this perspective and is designed with the idea of base
financing by membership fees - and I can assure you that this is how we still
handle it. The Net Culture Lab you mention in contrast to our community-drived
space is financed by the biggest Austrian telco, a quite different approach
but we believe in plurality and welcome alike initiatives.

