
‘99.99 percent air’: Boeing releases video of revolutionary lightweight metal - signa11
https://www.rt.com/news/318280-super-light-air-metal/
======
A010
Bonus video of 2011 news?

[http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2011/11/18/Worlds-
lightest-m...](http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2011/11/18/Worlds-lightest-
material-invented/UPI-12751321636467/?spt=hs&or=sn)

~~~
cowpig
The headline "Boeing releases ...." led me to believe that this research had
been done at Boeing. Is my assumption unreasonable or is the reporting
disingenuous?

~~~
rcpt
The work was done at HRL, which Boeing owns a large part of (source: I worked
at HRL).

Also, from my understanding, the most interesting thing about this material
isn't the weight but the manufacturing process. To build the lattice they used
a specialized 3D printer which combines the beams from a few directions, cf
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallic_microlattice](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallic_microlattice)

------
willyt
Maybe this is what she was getting at when making the comparison to bone
structures, but from seeing how it deforms under load in the video, it seems
that to realise its potential for serious structural applications this needs
to be bonded between two sheets of material to form a composite structure that
works like a 'space frame'.[0]

This would allow the fabrication of large stiff arbitrarily shaped panels to
form monocoque structures. I would imagine that you could even replace large
parts of the conventional rib and skin structure of an aircraft with this
eventually. The trickiest problem will be transmitting loads through panel
joints.

[0][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_frame](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_frame)

~~~
oatmealsnap
I'm still failing to see how this material would provide strength. In a
composite structure like you suggested, the two sheets could still crush the
microlattice on the inside.

It doesn't seem stronger than foam during compression, so the fact that it
returns to its original shape seem pointless. What am I not seeing?

~~~
Abraln
I agree completely. Without knowing the spring constant it is tough to say.
Although, if they could increase it using thicker tubes it could have
applications as shock absorbers in landing gear. I would not be too surprised
if they just went as light as they could for the press release. In the end,
without a list of mechanical properties it is impossible to say. On the other
hand, it could be completely useless and they just wanted to get some good PR
out of a failed idea.

------
powercf
I think the egg-drop challenge example is terrible. If the egg + protection
impacts the ground at a fixed velocity, the most relevant factor is the
/distance/ the egg moves before coming to a stop. So if it requires "three
feet of bubblewrap" (nonsense number, per the video), then it will also
require three feet of microlattice, unless the microlattice applies a more
constant force on the egg as it compresses.

Bad examples like that make it difficult for me to trust such videos.

~~~
slavik81
A secret of the egg drop is actually that the egg doesn't really need much
cushion to spread the impact over time. If you can spread the pressure evenly
and hold it still, you can get away with quite a small crumple zone.

Carve a perfectly egg-shaped hole into a pair of styrofoam bricks, then tape
them together with the egg inside. You'll beat 99% of the other kids who were
trying to protect their egg with soft materials.

Source: I tried using wet sponges and carpet underlay, but was soundly beaten
by a kid who carved a hole in a pair of styrofoam bricks.

~~~
mrfusion
What about suspending the egg in a jar of water?

~~~
damian2000
Water doesn't compress as far as I know, so it would be like the egg hitting
concrete...

~~~
rimantas
water also distributes pressure uniformly, so it will be like trying to crush
the egg pressing all the surface points of it with the same force. Which is
not easy to do.

~~~
logfromblammo
I once did the egg drop with a plastic container of honey. The container
shattered and got honey everywhere, but the egg survived.

~~~
retbull
We should do this for egg drops on the moon. One time containers filled with
honey.

------
jameshart
Just did some back of the envelope Wolfram Alpha calculations, and it seems to
me that the Eiffel Tower is about 99.999% air. Does that constitute an even
lighter material?

Edit - Just trying to understand the moral distinction between a light
'material' and a light 'structure' here. This seems more like a structure to
me?

~~~
shas3
It's all about the scale. Grossly speaking, on an average, Eiffel Tower is
perhaps 99.999% air. But is this true at every scale? Does every cubic meter
of the Eiffel Tower have 99.999% air? Or does every cubic micrometer? If we
were to build a megastructure of size 1,000,000s X Eiffel-size with Eiffels as
the building blocks being replicated, then perhaps the Boeing material is not
super-useful. But most applications are 1,000,000s X the Boeing lattice sized.

------
twic
So it's very light, and it's very elastic. It's also not at all rigid. What
would you use it for?

~~~
ssmoot
As another top-level comment mentioned, depending on the sheer strength, it
could be used in composite structures.

Take a 2'x2' 1" thick piece of foam. Laminate some fiberglass onto both sides
of it. This is basically how modern boat hulls are constructed. Extremely
light, rigid, insulated and durable.

WAG, but if it would allow you to replace 1 ton of foam on a 40' yacht, that's
one ton of extra cargo/amenities you could carry instead and maintain the same
water line. Or alternatively you could produce a faster boat with less wetted
area.

I'm sure a real engineer has a better idea of practical applications. But I
like cruising yachts so. :-)

~~~
djrogers
1 ton of foam? Foam used in boating is usually in the 2-4lb range, which means
2-4lb per cubic foot. There's not much chance a 40' yacht has 1000 cubic ft of
foam in it - far more likely it's got 20-30 cu ft, which is under 100lbs of
foam. Not enough to move the needle a bit.

Plus, foam provides displacement in case of breaches as a matter of it's
nature. This lattice wouldn't provide any displacement, so a small breach
would mean you're 2" thick composite hull would fill with water, which would
be bad.

------
dzdt
I wonder how flamable this is? Metal dust and shavings have a tendency to go
FWOOSH! and burn really hot and fast; I imagine this would be the same, no?

~~~
dpacmittal
Imagine if it was put in a plane and the plane caught on fire. The whole plane
just goes FWOOSH and disappears completely. Well, atleast you get to skydive
before you die.

~~~
fnordfnordfnord
>atleast you get to skydive before you die.

But, you're on fire!

~~~
hueving
The 500 mph wind should put it out soon!

------
kingkawn
hows she gonna say her material would crush the egg drop challenge and then
not actually do it? Wasn't that the whole point of it in school?

Also the perpetual winner for egg drop challenge is jello with uncooked rice
mixed.

------
c-rack
Reminds me of Aerogel:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerogel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerogel)

~~~
HerpDerpLerp
As namechecked in the article. One of the differences is Aerogel "have random
cellular structure, so they are less energy absorptive and strong."

------
DiThi
Am I the only one annoyed by videos with very short cuts that barely let you
see the properties of the material?

~~~
ksml
I felt that this video was particularly bad; not only did they stitch together
very short video clips, but they also stitched together short audio clips to
form sentences. It makes me feel like they could be making the lady say
something completely different than what she was actually saying, even though
I know this probably isn't the case. See 0:41 for an example:
[https://youtu.be/k6N_4jGJADY?t=41](https://youtu.be/k6N_4jGJADY?t=41) ("so
they... <obnoxious cut> aren't easily crushed.")

~~~
jdlshore
It's more likely that the cuts were to remove umms, ahhs, and digressions.

------
molyss
what a terrible video ! the sound cuts everywhere make the whole thing sound
like a political parody where you stitch together words from different
meetings... Seriously, Boeing, you couldn't afford more than a single shot on
this. Or actors, or something ?

"It's really exciting to work with things that we make that eventually go into
real product that lots of people use". It's sad on so many accounts bu it
sounds like a political debate to me. might as well say "It's cool to do stuff
with some stuff that could be used to create stuff for people to to stuff
with", and it's going to cointain just as much info.

------
rebootthesystem
This is neat stuff yet I am having trouble with the use of the term
"material", somebody help me.

To me this isn't a new material any more than aluminum honeycomb is a new
material. The material is aluminum or steel. They are then fabricated into
honeycomb sheets or lattices.

I don't see it as discovering a new material but rather fabricating an
existing material in a different way.

Other examples of this might be aluminum truss used in staging and the use of
trussed steel in bridge building.

What is a material?

~~~
ars
Does it help if you think of it as an alloy of metal and air?

When you make steel all you are doing is forming various crystal structures,
and grains. Martensite, Ferrite Austenite, Cementite, etc. They are all the
"same" material (iron and oxygen and carbon), yet if you figure out a new way
of arranging their shapes "just so" you can say you invented a new type of
steel.

This is the same way - they figured out a new way of arranging the atoms, so
it's a more or less a new material.

(I do see your point of course, and this is more macroscopic than grains in
steel, but I think it's not unreasonable to call it a new material.)

------
venomsnake
This will be awesome for airships.

Fill it with hydrogen and seal it.

~~~
avian
Putting problems with containing hydrogen aside, it seems this would actually
work. A structure made with 99.99% hydrogen (0.09 kg/m3) and 0.01% aluminum
(2700 kg/m3) by volume would have an average density of 0.36 kg/m3. This is
lower than air (1.29 kg/m3) and bit more than twice the density of helium.

~~~
baq
if you need to seal it, might as well not use anything in between, right?

~~~
A_Beer_Clinked
Why not remove everything and go for vacuum spheres...
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Lana_de_Terzi#Airshi...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Lana_de_Terzi#Airship_design)

------
nosage
So did they actually do the egg eggsperiment with this micro lattice material?

~~~
ecthiender
Hmm.. That let me think.. "Eggsperiment"!

------
kraftman
Is the metal light or just the structure?

~~~
thrownaway2424
It's the structure. This claim is easy to beat. I have a wrench here on my
desk and taking the wrench and the house as the system, it's 99.999% air.
Boom!

There's nothing interesting here except the manufacturing process used to make
such a thing.

------
izzydata
If you built a scale model of a good egg drop rig for the size of a person
would it protect them from jumping off a building without breaking anything?

~~~
dbbolton
Here's a med student's two cents: I doubt it simply because you can't
realistically prevent deceleration injury to the internal organs.

With an egg drop, you pretty much just have to worry about the integrity of
the shell, but with a person there are a lot more factors at play. The first
example I can think of off the top of my head is in MVAs. Modern cars are
designed to absorb a lot of the momentum from collisions and minimize injury
to passengers, but that isn't always enough to save lives.

You're not a solid body. You are basically a big blob of salt water that
happens to contain some hard bones and ligaments mixed in with vulnerable
organs. Even if you can protect the blob, those organs can still move around
inside it.

Let's say you slam into another car head-on. The frame of your car absorbs a
good bit of the energy, but your body still "wants" to keep going forward.
Then your seat belt stops your thorax, but your heart and major vessels keep
going and slam into your ribs, sternum, etc. Best case scenario, you'll walk
away with a minor myocardial contusion and possibly develop a dysrhythmia, but
if you're not so lucky, your descending aorta may actually be ripped by your
ligamentum arteriosum and you'll mostly likely bleed out.

Your head isn't as restrained as your thorax in a car, but even if it were
your brain can still move around and slam into your skull (which can lead to
traumatic brain injuries like concussion, diffuse axonal injury, cerebral
laceration, etc.).

~~~
izzydata
Thanks, that was informative.

------
jschwartz11
Check out these guys:
[http://ntopology.com/index.html/](http://ntopology.com/index.html/)

They make some awesome software that let's you create wither flat or
volumetric lattice structures from existing 3D models.

------
out_of_protocol
Do not forget about Aerographite
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerographite](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerographite)
(only ~180g/m3, much lower than a topicthing - 0.9kg/m3)

------
kaffeemitsahne
So is the material itself 99.99% air, or just the net structure?

~~~
espadrine
The structure. A thing to note is that the tubes themselves are hollow, a very
slim metal cylinder.

~~~
damian2000
"each strut is about 100 micrometres in diameter, with a wall 100 nanometres
thick"

\-
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallic_microlattice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallic_microlattice)

------
JeanneUntel
"100 times lighter than Styrofoam." What? “thickness 1,000 times thinner than
a human hair.” Huh?

I sense an alternation between pop and technical language, i.e. "lighter" and
"denser," and “thickness and “thinner.”

It looks like we are looking at a composite material here. Scales, densities,
and thermodynamics typical to the nano world do not easily apply to the STP
world where 25C and 1Bar reign king.

Since the microcosm denizen is a tube, what are median wall thicknesses and
tube diameters?

Did the redacter here also work for Apple to measure their new products as
“thin?” If so, they may qualify to be an Apple genius.

------
smegel
By volume or mass?

~~~
Zikes
Yeah, wouldn't an empty soda can be 99+% air by volume?

~~~
VLM
Surprisingly no, google claims cans have been getting lighter but 15 grams
empty is realistic, lets assume water at a gram per mL, 12 oz water is about
350 grams, that is about 5%, I don't remember the exact specific gravity of
aluminum but its less than 3 (not a very dense metal...) so 5/3% by volume,
roughly? This is all engineering estimates done in my head so exact numbers
will be different but its not going to be orders of magnitude off.

A significant source of error beyond 1 sig fig is going to be the weight of
ink/paint and the weight of the pop tab on the top. Also cans are not filled
100% with liquid, so there is air space (it has 12 ounces of liquid, but its a
12.something volume tank)

Something interesting to think about is fluid dynamics, a foam like this would
stop sloshing at almost no weight penalty. If you like the idea of tin foil
thickness gas and water tanks, then this would seem to be a requirement for
that technology.

~~~
irl_zebra
Well, the volume of a regular aluminum soda can is 375 cm^3 [1]. A modern can
is about 15 grams of aluminum.[2] Just a really quick plugging it into Wolfram
Alpha, the volume of 15 grams of aluminum is about 5.6 cm^3. [3]

So, that's about 1.5% aluminum by volume. So a soda can is about 98.5% air by
volume.

[1]:
[http://jwilson.coe.uga.edu/emt668/emat6680.folders/howard/vo...](http://jwilson.coe.uga.edu/emt668/emat6680.folders/howard/volumeof12ozcan/volumeof.12.oz.can.html)

[2]:
[http://aluminium.org.au/FAQRetrieve.aspx?ID=45688](http://aluminium.org.au/FAQRetrieve.aspx?ID=45688)

[3] :
[http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=15+grams+of+aluminum+to...](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=15+grams+of+aluminum+to+volume)

------
shoniko
Russia Today on Hacker News? Really?

~~~
1_player
So what? The topic is non-political, and even if it were, you are free to skip
it.

I personally like seeing non-mainstream or controversial topics on HN, even if
I don't agree with them.

------
georgehaake
Future MacBook?

