

Peeler Man, HN Salesmanship Hero, Passes - patio11
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/03/nyregion/03ades.html?hp

======
jreposa
It was the strangest thing. I was walking by union square a few years ago when
I saw him going into his pitch. It really was a site to see. His booming voice
drew me and about 20+ other people in, where we stood around watching him peel
carrots for at least 5 minutes. Not sure why, but I felt like I had to buy
one. It was a dance really. The way he used the peeler was mesmerizing.

I still have my peeler.

~~~
swombat
On the good news side, if your peeler ever breaks, it's also sold in most
supermarkets in Europe and Asia - and most of the ones you can buy here aren't
made of scrap metal, but of ergonomic, comfortable plastic.

~~~
patio11
Its interesting to me on an intellectual level to compare your way of
describing the peeler to his way of describing the peeler. You describe
breakage as an intrinsic feature of peelers, much like 1970s Ford might
describe defects as an intrinsic feature of cars.

He describes his peelers as being remarkable accomplishments of Swiss
engineering that do not break, period, and repeatedly contrasts it with the
peelers you can buy in most supermarkets in Europe and Asia. I can just about
quote it from memory: "This isn't a cheap peeler. If you want a cheap peeler
you can buy one at any dollar store. This peeler was made in Switzerland and
nothing from Switzerland was ever cheap. You don't buy this peeler because it
is cheap and you can replace it when it wears out, you buy it because it will
be the last peeler you ever buy."

Now it might be the case that you and he are still talking about the same
peeler. I think that this demonstrates one little technique which makes him a
really good salesman for the peeler. I think that this technique is a useful
one to stick in the quiver -- it works with positioning software, too. He is
so consummately good at selling that I think we could learn a lot from him,
including this one little technique, which is why I consider him noteworthy to
HN.

On being the Last X You Will Every Buy: I use a variation of the same to
position my software. Most software in my vertical is licensed in such a way
that it requires repurchase every year. There are a bunch of reasons for this
-- suffice it to say that most IP in my vertical is treated that way, software
is largely produced by the existing IP makers, and they ported their license
terms from their existing businesses without much regard to how software
changes the game. I think my customers hate that business model with a burning
passion, largely because my customers tell me they hate that business model
with a burning passion. I licensed my software perpetually and position it,
very explicitly, as The Last X You Will Ever Buy. I think this is one reason
why I can get away with charging more than almost any of my competitors,
announce a price increase, and have customers send me mail telling me how
cheap I am.

~~~
swombat
I'm from Switzerland. Those peelers are available in all supermarkets here -
both the plain metal ones and more advanced ones with moulded plastic handles.
Typically the plastic ones are more reliable.

I was not suggesting that it will necessarily break, but there are many ways
to find yourself needing a new peeler. You could lose it. You could lend it to
someone who doesn't give it back. Your girlfriend could borrow it and then
break up with you before having given it back (though hopefully it won't be
because of the peeler). Or it could just break - the handle won't break, of
course, but the blade might eventually get dull, or the joint between the
blade and the handle might get loose.

I agree that this guy was a good salesman, by the way, and that we can learn
from that.

------
iuguy
See the guy in action at <http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=HCUct4NlxE0>

A really fantastic pitchman, great to watch and made an absolute craft out of
his work.

~~~
fallentimes
Sold.

I want one of those peelers.

~~~
jonknee
Buy one:

[http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0019VOPU0?ie=UTF8&tag=...](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0019VOPU0?ie=UTF8&tag=prsboos&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B0019VOPU0)

~~~
fallentimes
From him :).

~~~
rudyfink
too late :(

------
axod
For people like me, who missed the previous discussion:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=378852>

Considering there were only 14 posts on this article, I don't think "HN
Salesmanship hero" is in any way accurate... Perhaps he's the posters hero, or
some subset of HN, but I don't think it's useful to assume all of HN thinks a
certain way.

He certainly has a very good technique though, and I imagine was great to
watch.

------
jakewolf
Sad, I just saw him in Union Square on Saturday.

~~~
daveambrose
It is. I was looking forward to seeing him and the crowds around him in the
Spring when it got warmer out.

------
dpapathanasiou
Wow, I just saw him this past Saturday; it's going to be strange to walk into
that market and _not_ see him any more.

------
mallory
The peeler man is autonomy personified. Clearly he could have not sold
peelers, and clearly he could have not worked on the street. But he did,
seemingly not driven by money alone, but by a fascination for exchanging his
story for your attention.

It's hard to properly mourn such an inspiring and humble performance. This is
not willy loman. The peeler man's craft was an art form in a city where hyper
capitalism and over commodification enslave most of its residents.

------
byrneseyeview
I had relatives in the city over the last weekend. They had a checklist of
stuff they wanted to see, and they managed to see everything but the Peeler
Guy.

------
RiderOfGiraffes
Can't read this without logging in, but a related article:

[http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/03/nyregion/03ades.html?partn...](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/03/nyregion/03ades.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss)

Is it the same? It appears to be ...

~~~
ovi256
It is the same.

------
yan
Oh man, I will miss him. I used to walk past him almost every day around Court
St selling those peelers.

------
swombat
HN salesmanship hero? Do you want a bit more exaggeration in your hyperbole
sandwich?

~~~
patio11
See: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=378852>

As an understatement: most of us will not have our demoing skills celebrated
on the front page of the NYT on the day we die.

~~~
swombat
Then maybe you should have called him a NY Times salesmanship hero - if you
think that the NY Times, as an aggregate organisation, thinks he's a
salesmanship hero.

I'm not saying that there wasn't some discussion of his salesmanship, but it's
a long way, imho, from being a "salesman who's been discussed" (an achievement
in and of itself) to being a "salesmanship hero".

I think a more appropriate headline for this article would have been "Peeler
man, previously discussed on HN, passes"

~~~
ekanes
When someone dies, people usually add a little warmth to any description of
them. And that's the way it should be. Respect.

~~~
swombat
Respect where it's due. I have no more respect for a guy who sold potato
peelers than for anyone else, whether or not he had good street sales skills.
The fact that he was mentioned on HN and his sales skill was discussed doesn't
make him a hero - and certainly not my hero. It's a sad thing when anyone
dies, but I feel no need to put dead people on a pedestal. Do you?

I maintain that the title of this thread is unnecessary hyperbole, and if
we're talking about respect, I'd appreciate it if the hordes of people who are
downmodding me in some sort of sheeple momentum voting would take a second and
consider whether my comments really deserve that kind of downvoting (which
should only be reserved for things that are truly offensive, trolling, or
spammy).

~~~
fallentimes
I upvoted you, but it's probably because you're insulting them. For better or
worse, deaths tend to make people particularly on edge.

The word "hero", like the words "unique" and "expert" do not really mean
anything anymore because they're so overused. And while I would not consider
him a hero, it's always cool to see stories about people who are flat out
really good at what they do.

~~~
swombat
_For better or worse, deaths tend to make people particularly on edge._

I know what you mean, and to an extent these posts are a little testing, a
little spiteful, to see how knee-jerk people's reactions are really going to
be. You might say I'm daring the HN community to behave better than it seems
to be behaving. It might cost a little karma. Oh well.

I have little respect for taboo subjects, I'm afraid. In fact, the opposite: I
believe that everything should be discussable in a civil manner. I feel that
taboos don't help society, and that sheeple responses to taboo subjects is one
of the more despicable aspects of human nature. I have not made any statements
in this thread that I believe should be considered offensive by a civilised
person, and I stand behind those statements as I would if anyone else had made
them.

~~~
icey
_"to an extent these posts are a little testing, a little spiteful, to see how
knee-jerk people's reactions are really going to be"_

Isn't that kind of the definition of trolling? It seems like you're kind of
bringing it on yourself if what you're saying here is true.

~~~
swombat
No, I don't think it qualifies as trolling if you're defending your beliefs.
Trolling is when you make a statement that you know to be wrong for the
purpose of eliciting excited responses.

The New Hacker's Dictionary defines trolling as:

 _[From the Usenet group alt.folklore.urban] To utter a posting on Usenet
designed to attract predictable responses or flames. Derives from the phrase
"trolling for newbies" which in turn comes from mainstream "trolling", a style
of fishing in which one trails bait through a likely spot hoping for a bite.
The well-constructed troll is a post that induces lots of newbies and flamers
to make themselves look even more clueless than they already do, while subtly
conveying to the more savvy and experienced that it is in fact a deliberate
troll. If you don't fall for the joke, you get to be in on it._

 _Some people claim that the troll is properly a narrower category than flame
bait, that a troll is categorized by containing some assertion that is wrong
but not overtly controversial._

(from <http://www.ccil.org/jargon/jargon_35.html#SEC42> )

I don't think I'm doing that.

~~~
omouse
Yep, you're definitely doing it. You're resorting to the definition of the
word, you've admitted it, you're now denying it only to gain more of a
reaction.

