
Footage shows young elephants being captured for Chinese zoos - adamnemecek
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/oct/03/exclusive-footage-shows-young-elephants-being-captured-in-zimbabwe-for-chinese-zoos
======
adamnemecek
You guys should consider donating to the International Anti-Poaching
Foundation[0][1] which fights these poachers. The founder, Damien Mander[2],
is an Australian ex spec-ops sniper who is using his military experience to
train the park rangers since they, unlike the poachers, tend to be poorly
equipped and trained as well as understaffed.

There is also the David Sheldrick Wildlife Trust[3][4] which takes care of
elephant and rhino orphans (most of them are orphans due to poaching). For $50
a year, you can become a sponsor of a particular animal and they'll send you
photos and updates about how your sponsored animal is doing. You can for
example sponsor these cuties [5][6]. It's a good gift.

You should also check out
[http://reddit.com/r/babyelephantgifs](http://reddit.com/r/babyelephantgifs)
for a daily dose of elephant gifs.

[0] [http://www.iapf.org/](http://www.iapf.org/)

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Anti-
Poaching_Fo...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Anti-
Poaching_Foundation)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damien_Mander](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damien_Mander)

[3]
[http://www.sheldrickwildlifetrust.org/](http://www.sheldrickwildlifetrust.org/)

[4]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Sheldrick_Wildlife_Trust](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Sheldrick_Wildlife_Trust)

[5]
[http://www.sheldrickwildlifetrust.org/asp/orphan_profile.asp...](http://www.sheldrickwildlifetrust.org/asp/orphan_profile.asp?N=318)

[6] [https://www.instagram.com/p/BZz6S-fFBQL/?taken-
by=dswt](https://www.instagram.com/p/BZz6S-fFBQL/?taken-by=dswt)

~~~
sillysaurus3
Out of curiosity, are these organizations literally fighting poachers? I.e.
we're saying that an elephant's life is more valuable than a human's?

That's an interesting moral question.

~~~
thinkloop
Harmers are less valuable than victims, regardless of species. All
consciousness should be respected.

~~~
soVeryTired
Depends why they're causing harm. Nothing is ever black and white.

~~~
munificent

        > Nothing is ever black and white.
    

This is true, but I feel like people claiming this often intend to imply that
everything is exactly 50% gray which is also never the case.

------
09bjb
I'd highly recommend watching "Blackfish" for some insight into this sort of
phenomenon with a more domestic spin (spoiler, it's about SeaWorld's
acquisition of and treatment of their Orcas).

~~~
HoppedUpMenace
I'd actually recommend against it due to its "domestic spin", as well as its
bias, questionable editing, and questionable experts.

------
centimeter
I wonder if legalizing the sale of elephants, rhino horns, etc. (but still
protecting the ones in the wild) would lead to a sort of positive version of
the
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_effect](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_effect)

After all, if you can make tons of money selling rhino horns (but know you’ll
get shot if you kill an existing rhino to do it), people might start putting a
lot of money into rhino farms, which could be good for the global population
size.

~~~
mfoy_
No. People weren't "farming" them before laws cracked down on it. Laws cracked
down on it precisely because of _how_ people _were_ going about getting ivory.

Besides, we're not aiming for pure population count... imagine the shitty
quality of life an "ivory farm elephant" would have? And after they take the
horn or tusk, what then? Meat?

~~~
centimeter
People weren’t farming because there was a plentiful natural supply that was
easy to get at. The costs of acquiring “free range” elephant is already so
high that if you allowed people the cheaper option of farming elephants, it
would probably be viable.

You don’t have to kill an elephant (or rhino) to take their tusks. Presumably
their quality of life would be no worse than that of e.g. cows.

------
godDLL
I think they are just getting them where and while the getting is good, and
the one being stomped by a boot wasn't about to get out of the cart or
something.

If it's legal and is good money -- what are you going to do? Get it to be
little money, or illegal and too much trouble. If reducing this phenomenon is
your goal, that is.

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eighthnate
There are zoos all over the world with animals from africa.

I'm against all zoos personally, but who cares if they are for chinese zoos?

Britain has a bunch of zoos with elephants, rhinos and all kinds of animals
from africa. Is it bad because it is for the chinese?

~~~
smnrchrds
NPR Planet Money did an episode about how zoos acquire animals. I recommend
listening to it:

[http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2016/09/09/493295430/episo...](http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2016/09/09/493295430/episode-566-the-
zoo-economy)

To put it in a nutshell, they are not allowed to buy and sell animals.
Aquariums can trade animals with other aquariums but no money should change
hands. Zoos depend solely on goodwill, as even trade is banned. So when an
animal is born in a zoo, if they don't need it or cannot keep it, they donate
it to another zoo who needs it. And if a zoo needs an animals, they put the
word out that they require one and some other zoo donates them one of theirs.

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ex1710_01
Maybe this is about China or young elephants.

Every one of us continues to be cruel and complicit, multiple times a day in
the the torture and killing of several living beings.

There are a few degrees of seperation from the actual act but each of us,
personally, are the direct reason it happens to a specific other living being.

Look inside you and at your life before you judge others. For cruelty isn't
just what is in sight.

------
a2tech
WHY? Why do people have to be such assholes? Jesus.

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teekert
Ah, China, you know, it is the modern day and age and you cannot get what we
here in the west got the way we got it. Sorry.

Edit: Oh, getting some downvotes, just saying that it is a bit hypocritically
to go to a western zoo (not saying you all are) and watch elephants probably
acquired in a similar fashion.

~~~
have_faith
> we did something wrong in the past so other people are allowed to do it in
> the present

Not sure on your logic here.

~~~
ceejayoz
That said, I can understand the frustration at the hypocrisy.

Perhaps the developed world could recognize the unfairness of the situation
and help Chinese zoos with care standards and loans/donations of elephants
from zoos that have them.

~~~
teekert
I agree very much with that, same as with polluting industries etc.

