
Don’t Quit When It Gets Hard - plurby
http://dariusforoux.com/i-quit/
======
mathgeek
> No matter what you do, it’s time to stop watching Netflix every night and
> browsing webshops for the newest clothes.

This is a very narrow view of the world. Success is not explicitly defined as
spending every waking hour working. A person who is content with their lot in
life, at any level, is already successful.

~~~
overcast
Someone from our office just died over the weekend, we all found out about an
hour ago. They were the type of person that essentially spent their waking
hours working for this company. Crack of dawn up, and last to leave, working
after hours, and on weekends.

I'm betting in their final hour they didn't wish they were still at work, or
got more hours in. Busting your ass working IS a waste of life. You can be
passionate about your work, but don't be ridiculous. You're only here once.

~~~
hungerstrike
> Busting your ass working IS a waste of life.

Maybe, maybe not. That's your opinion because the only source of truth here is
your own feelings.

> You can be passionate about your work, but don't be ridiculous.

You can be whatever you want and if you're fine with that, then great.
Everybody is different. Average people/workers/earners obviously think and
behave differently than those who are above average.

> You're only here once.

...as far as you know.

~~~
overcast
No, that's a fact. No one on their death bed has wished they worked more. They
wished they spent more time with
family/friends/traveling/vacations/reading/sports/whatever. Working until you
died is what slaves did.

~~~
Mz
I'm not on my death bed, but I wish to hell and back I could work more. I'm
sick to death of being poor. I'm broke today. I hate it so fucking much.

Half of that equation is that I have health issues, so sometimes I am just too
sick to work. The other half seems to be that I am a woman, so good luck
getting taken seriously.

I spend a lot of my time wishing I were dead because being unable to get
enough work is such a shitastic experience. So, you know, speak for yourself.
The feminization of poverty is real. Working to benefit other people without
getting paid for it is the actual definition of what slaves do. It also nicely
sums up what traditional _women 's work_ is all about, which most women still
do the lion's share of.

~~~
belorn
If you want the traditional work experience for men with health issues, the
equation is very simple. You "man up" and go to work and pretend that you are
not sick, regardless of pain, fatigue or dizziness. You will be taken
seriously, but only if you can hold up the perception of male persona with
perfect health and strength. Otherwise you will not just loose the ability to
be taken serious at work, but society in general will reject you.

~~~
Mz
I have done plenty of manning up. I paid down debt while improving my income
while homeless. I also appear to be the only woman on the leaderboard of
Hacker News, so I appear to get taken a helluva lot more seriously than most
women. It still fails to translate to serious income, even though a recent
resume job I did was for a CEO who indicated he knew me via Hacker News and I
had impressed him.

Getting taken seriously _for a woman_ is apparently still pretty damn
pathetic. I would like to get taken seriously without such qualifiers. Such
qualifiers are always a huge negative. _Women only_ awards are basically a
dunce cap with a crown drawn on it to pretty it up. They are akin to the
Special Olympics. The fundamental message there is that "you can't really
compete."

~~~
belorn
The only one that can compete is the few lucky percent at top that have health
and strength to do so. Manning up is not an achievement, it is a symptom of
the core issue in cultural differences in how women and men are treated.

The general cultural view seen in for example health care is that men are
assumed healthy and strong. This is great if you are that, but catastrophic if
you aren't. Treatments get delayed, problems worsened, and in psychology there
is a recognized problem of not seeing mental illness in men. For women its not
perfect either. While assumed poor health do generally lead to faster
treatment and better contact with the health care for women, the doctors don't
believe in actually curing problems so health care for women has
disproportionation amount of only addressing symptoms. In averages, some
treatment is still better than no treatment which is reflected in the
statistics and increased life span.

This pattern show up all the time in gender studies. Men end up as majority at
the top and bottom of the charts, women at the middle. The fact that you are a
woman should in average give you an advantage at work in comparison to men
with same health issues, pushing you towards the middle. Men can pretend and
hide the health issue for a while (ie manning up), but its unlikely to work
and carries with it some major health risks, not to mention that shitastic
experience. In all its a bad situation for everyone with health issues,
regardless of gender.

~~~
Mz
I have been working on both my health issues and my income. I have seen
improvements in both.

To my mind, this is not terribly relevant to the issue I would like to see
resolved. I have done all that. It hasn't exactly resulted in accolades, so to
speak. In fact, it appears to me that I am so competent that people routinely
think I am just making shit up. They think I am an egomaniac, liar, deluded or
something along those lines.

I don't like where this conversation is going at all. I think my time would be
better spent talking to myself in a corner in the form of blogging.

Adieu.

------
TheReveller
If you don't quit, maybe you'll never start the next thing that will succeed.
A blind 'just work harder' ethic doesn't necessarily mean success. It's such
crap to say that everyone who never quits succeeds.

Not only that, but it means that if you decide to do something else, you'll
feel like it was a moral failure to stop doing what you were doing. So you'll
blame yourself, and you won't examine honestly why didn't it work, what was
things were out of my control. Learning from the experience is the most
valuable part.

I spent close to 10 years on something that didn't succeed. The problem was it
didn't fail either, so you just keep telling yourself that it's going to
happen one day. Looking back on it objectively it was never going to work.

Take an honest view, don't just sing in the choir of the church of you.

~~~
TheReveller
On reflection - what you shouldn't quit at is having a growth mindset and
always improving. Definitely do that.

------
twelfthnight
"Know when to quit and when not to quit" is better advice then just "don't
quit". However, I think this article is aimed at the situation where you know
you shouldn't quit, but you do because it's hard. For example, regular
exercise.

Something that has worked for me is committing myself to a short amount time
doing the thing I don't want to do. I'll tell myself "after 5 minutes, if I
still don't want to do this then I'll stop". Nearly always once I start
washing the dishes or start a run, I'm happy to finish.

~~~
Zelphyr
Apparently, the Navy SEAL's have a similar philosophy during BUD/S, and
particularly during Hell Week where they go five days of gruelling physical
challenges with a total of about 3-4 hours sleep.

~~~
PrgsvThgt
This article seems to reference a personality trait that seems to be lacking
in modern society: grit. Just my person opinion. Heck, I've lacked grit, in
some situations.

For a good (motivational) read about the definition of grit, who's got it, and
why it matters, I recommend Angela Duckworth
[link][http://angeladuckworth.com/](http://angeladuckworth.com/)

~~~
s73ver_
I don't think it's a lack of grit. I think a lot of it is a lack of
motivation, or a lack of explanation of why they should continue.

------
dogruck
If only it were so simple.

It is that simple when you are, say, running an endurance race. Abide "don't
quit" and you will finish.

But in real life, you're presented with a continual stream of alternative
opportunities.

And these days "I quit" has subtly morphed into "I pivot."

~~~
zimpenfish
> It is that simple when you are, say, running an endurance race.

It isn't. If things are starting to cause pain, or bleed, or you're vomiting,
or ... there are many sensible reasons to cut short or abandon an endurance
race.

> Abide "don't quit" and you will finish.

Or do yourself damage that will take months to recover from.

~~~
zimpenfish
As a personal anecdote, I cut short a 24h race this summer at 17h because,
even though it was ~20degC, I spent an entire lap shivering even though I had
t-shirt + thick hoody + hat. That was a pretty big warning that I'd pushed too
far and further would have laid me out.

~~~
dogruck
There's no shame in stopping. Sounds like you were hypothermic, which is a
common reason for DNFs.

From my experience, I would say that you wouldn't have been able to continue
even if you needed to.

Also, always beware of the spectrum. Some people would say running for 17
hours is impossible. Others would say they shivered uncontrollably at 17 hours
and roughed out 3 more hours before dropping. Others still would hit 24 hours
and wish they could keep going.

~~~
zimpenfish
> There's no shame in stopping.

Oh, I know. I was there primarily to support a 100-miler anyway which made the
decision a lot easier.

> I would say that you wouldn't have been able to continue even if you needed
> to.

Yeah, I spent the next couple of hours just slumped under a table trying to
get warm and eat food.

~~~
dogruck
Excellent motivational speech -- skip to the 6 minute mark:
[https://youtu.be/b3q0dvwEmsQ](https://youtu.be/b3q0dvwEmsQ)

~~~
doodpants
I think you linked to the wrong video; it's only 53 seconds long.

~~~
dogruck
Oops -- this one: [https://youtu.be/3cZlvRnBnWs](https://youtu.be/3cZlvRnBnWs)

------
shubhamjain
An important lesson I have learned recently is that doing hard things never
pays dividends in the shorter run; in fact, it make you miserable in that
period. The benefits are only realised in the longer run. What if you commit
yourself to send one newspaper pitch every week? Quite likely, you will face
rejections and it will make feel dejected. However, gradually, your pitches
will start improving, you'll get better at writing them, and eventually, one
of yours will get accepted. Then, probably another. Hurray! you have broken
into publishing industry as a freelance writer.

From all the things related to writing I have read, this advice is present in
almost every one of them. The recipe sounds simple but it's easy enough to
quit with just one rejections. In writing, business, dating or anything that
requires effort. If you persist, however, don't take failure personally, it
doesn't take long to get better at that.

~~~
baby
Stephen King tells a similar story in his book On Writing :)

------
ManlyBread
I like to face difficult problems, but I do expect to gain something in
return. I also expect actual challenges and not just a pile of annoyances.

Unfortunately, most of the time the reward is that you just get to work on
even more annoying problems.

~~~
s73ver_
Far too many mistake annoyances for challenge.

------
mythrwy
Don't quit just _because_ it gets hard.

But don't persist if it isn't worth it. Which decision should be made
independently of personal discomfort.

(Also, in general don't take life advice from 20 something Internet marketers.
Why do you clog up the interwebs people? Please quit! Not because it's hard
but because volume of SEO junk to sell some coaching books is simply not
needed by humanity. Lets improve the quality of the net with original ideas
rather than rehashing again and again. Do something worth doing or do not do
at all.)

------
GeorgeSarkis
>> Darius Foroux: "I’m an entrepreneur, author, and podcaster. I also research
tools to build a better life, career, and business. Join my free newsletter if
you want to get my latest articles delivered to your inbox."

Another collection of pseudointellectual predigested positive platitudes.

~~~
stefanwlb
These type of blogs are popping up like flies, just rehashing what others have
said without any added substance or power.

------
rogerb
I agree when the challenge is getting to the goal, but people often quit when
they don't believe in the goal anymore.

------
baby
In the Coursera course about learning, one thing one of the professor say is
that every successful people have this in common: persistence. Nothing can be
achieved without persistence.

------
codingdave
On the flip side of that, don't stick with a failing endeavor just because it
is hard and you have put a lot of energy into it. Make an intelligent analysis
of your current position and trajectory in life, and decide whether or not to
change your direction based on your long-term goals. Sometimes sticking with
it is the right answer... sometimes it isn't.

------
mack1001
I doubt it's that simple. There are things you should just quit - things that
mess with your mental stability. Then there are things that exercise the right
muscles but is downright hard, the ones you should persist for the value you
gain at the end of it. Being patient is a great virtue till it isn't.

Edit: typo

------
agumonkey
I like that drawing. In music I represent learning as a black map, with gray
areas around tiny white spots, which are valid intuitions/concepts.

Learning something really knew, means whole black map, blindness, you can only
walk randomly and think you hit a white spot but it's only a gray area. Then
you have more gray areas but they don't work right yet. After a while you can
finely tune the walk and locate the white spots. When you have lots of white
spots, you know.

And if you're fast, it's just because you don't have to walk anymore, you can
jumpskip right to the appropriate white spot to evaluate a situation or
phenomenon.

------
eroccatlun
Never quit on your own goals.

Its fine to quit when other peoples goals involve using your man-power for
their own gain and you see less and less reason to continue being a part of
it.

------
mirrormind
He is speaking in the context of once you set a goal then don't quit. Eg: I
have to get a job in one month. Now, once you define a goal that is measurable
and is important to you. Will you be able to watch netflix if you are consumed
by your goal day and night? If your thoughts are fooling you,then you will get
discouraged by every small failure. I think it helps to be less emotional and
mechanical in the pursuit of a goal.

------
jrs235
Necessary Endings: The Employees, Businesses, and Relationships That All of Us
Have to Give Up in Order to Move Forward by Henry Cloud.[1]

"Endings:The Good Cannot Begin Until the Bad Ends"

Sometimes you have to quit the bad or good so that you can start the good or
better.

[1] [http://amzn.to/2yJiImE](http://amzn.to/2yJiImE)

~~~
npsimons
> “There’s a trick to the 'graceful exit.' It begins with the vision to
> recognize when a job, a life stage, or a relationship is over — and let it
> go. It means leaving what’s over without denying its validity or its past
> importance to our lives. It involves a sense of future, a belief that every
> exit line is an entry, that we are moving up, rather than out.”

― Ellen Goodman

------
wruza
Idk much about other things in this essay, but his goal is always on
imagination line, while in reality it is, well, constrained somewhere on
reality curve (at most).

Given that imagined goal = real, it is pretty easy to not quit. Hard part is,
complex goals are often just a mirage.

------
nsomaru
'A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds' — Emerson

------
module0000
To look at this article from my own viewpoint(who else's?), this is about "do
I stop out now, wait, or move my stop loss and hope it turns around(hah!)".

Know when to keep going, but more importantly, _know when to quit_. Not
knowing when to quit is how you go bankrupt, die, and/or cause other people to
do either.

------
whipoodle
I just want to make enough to where I don’t _have_ to work in this industry,
at least for a little while. It’s fucking awful.

------
dannyw
I wonder if Darius has heard of Borderline Personality Disorder. I immediately
thought of it reading this post. I suffer from BPD myself, and I've noticed
far greater symptoms of wanting to quit compared to people around me - the
grass is always greener, and I want something until I have it. That has
resulted in very unstable jobs, careers, and relationships.

Just like Darius's post, actually following up and quitting didn't make me
happier. Rather, worse. There's a honeymoon period, but soon I disliked the
new thing, and wanted to go back to the old thing.

Deep down, it turns out this is a symptom of not loving myself and being happy
with who I am - and feelings of neglect, shame, and guilt from childhood.

I seek new jobs, experiences, friends, and relationships because I think that
will make me content - but that's flawed as you will never love anything until
you love yourself; and surprisingly my empty self identity _is_ the cause of
hating programming, or hating product management, or hating my work.

Other symptoms of BPD are seeing things in black and white ('splitting'), wide
emotional swings, intense fears of detachment, chronic feelings of emptiness,
and more. Those are usually traced to childhood abandonment; whether it's
losing parents, moving countries, or a troublesome upbringing.

If any of this sounds like you, I'd suggest looking more into BPD. There's a
book called "I hate you, don't leave me"; that while not perfect and critiqued
in some areas, is a great explanation of BPD. But also, don't self-diagnose;
don't think you have BPD just because you want to quit.

~~~
graphitezepp
Not being able to love yourself sucks. You can't find happiness when you don't
want it, don't feel like you deserve it.

------
RockinRobinCo
Good read

------
helmyarman
If you quit, you must know you have given another human a chance to do better
than you did.

~~~
EADGBE
Make sure during your Race of Life you stop and enjoy it.

