
The Machine Stops - mooreds
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/02/11/the-machine-stops
======
TuringTest
_> immersed us in a virtual reality far denser, more absorbing, and even more
dehumanizing. I am confronted every day with the complete disappearance of the
old civilities. Social life, street life, and attention to people_

Why is there this prejudice that virtual life is dehumanizing? Talking through
the social network apps _is_ social life.

Whether it is quality talk or not, dehumanizing or not, I don't see much
difference with the good old analogical talking - namely it depends on what
are you talking about and with whom.

~~~
koverda
The big difference is the loss of non verbal communication such as body
language, pauses, etc. I agree with the author that there’s an important
element of presence in your current surroundings that is lost with the
proliferation of smartphones.

~~~
TuringTest
Yes, but there's also an important element of presence in environments you
wouldn't have had access in your life without the technology.

The loss of non verbal communication was also a thing in epistolary
communication, a common practice for all social classes (even those who
couldn't read or write would manage to get letters or postcards written for
them); and that was considered a cultivated social activity, not at all
dehumanizing either.

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samcheng
I read the original "The Machine Stops" by E.M. Forster way back in 1909, a
few weeks back, following a link from this very website. It's worth a read!

[http://archive.ncsa.illinois.edu/prajlich/forster.html](http://archive.ncsa.illinois.edu/prajlich/forster.html)

EDIT: Looks like that link is a little overloaded right now... This one works:
[https://www.ele.uri.edu/faculty/vetter/Other-stuff/The-
Machi...](https://www.ele.uri.edu/faculty/vetter/Other-stuff/The-Machine-
Stops.pdf)

~~~
johnhattan
There's a good free audiobook version on librivox.org

~~~
interfixus
I for one am slightly underwhelmed by the irony of seeing "audiobook" in this
particular context.

~~~
fao_
Audiobooks are useful for people who are blind, people who are severely
dyslexic, or people with NVD (non-verbal learning disorder), who are capable
of processing sound fine, but might have difficulty processing text.

I fail to see how it's ironic, given that the original story was about a
button-pressing utopia. The utopia wasn't so simplistic and purile as people
having things read to them, or watching movies instead of reading, but
instead, people refused to do proper research, trusting written accounts from
people several times removed from the original texts, like some obscene all-
encompassing version of 'telephone'. People who were, ultimately, afraid of
curiosity.

------
mensetmanusman
Alluded to in the article is the importance of spending some time in silence.

For those that agree with the idea that long stretches of silence can be
important for meaningful internal dialogue and mental health:

One amazing life hack that I have found to work almost anywhere in the world
(e.g. when travelling - or not): search ‘adoration times <city/town/location>’
and find some welcoming empty space to sit in silence ... and no one will
question you.

~~~
Swizec
> and no one will question you.

Nobody questions going for a run. GReat way to find some alone quiet time no
matter where you are, what you're doing, or who you're with.

~~~
mensetmanusman
One of my runs ended with me slowly backing up from two loose rottweilers that
thought I was tresspassing their sidewalk. Amazing how fast the mind starts
racing on how to kill in near-death situations.

After that, I realized running can be a privledge in many neighboorhoods
(women runners take on a whole different level of risk as well
unfortunately...)

------
JohnTHaller
If you have not read the 1909 story The Machine Stops by E. M. Forster
referenced here, it's worth doing so. It's in the public domain.

~~~
eponeponepon
It's more than worth it. It's a story that should be required reading for the
modern age.

------
m-i-l
_" A few years ago [early 2010s?], I was invited to join a panel discussion
about information and communication in the twenty-first century. One of the
panelists, an Internet pioneer, said proudly that his young daughter surfed
the Web twelve hours a day..."_

Contrast with "A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in
Silicon Valley"[0], admittedly written several years later and about phones
specifically rather than the internet in general, which opens "The people who
are closest to a thing are often the most wary of it. Technologists know how
phones really work, and many have decided they don’t want their own children
anywhere near them."

[0]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18309305](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18309305)

------
SideburnsOfDoom
Huh, odd. The date is February 11, 2019, but if I'm not mistaken, the author
(Oliver Sacks) died in 2015

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Sacks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Sacks)

~~~
kapep
It's mentioned at the end of the article.

> Oliver Sacks, who died in 2015, was the author of many books, including
> “Musicophilia,” “Gratitude,” and “The River of Consciousness.” A final
> collection of his essays, “Everything in Its Place,” will be published in
> April.

------
dblotsky
To me, the author's response is mostly to change of scale. Social intimacy and
human connection still exist, just in less populated areas. It's unrealistic
to expect a busy city to stay the same over the course of a lifetime.

Also relevant: [https://xkcd.com/1601/](https://xkcd.com/1601/).

------
zafka
Very strange, I posted this link three hours ago, both are listed, this one an
hour later on page one.

~~~
zafka
[https://hn.algolia.com/?query=machine%20stops&sort=byPopular...](https://hn.algolia.com/?query=machine%20stops&sort=byPopularity&prefix&page=0&dateRange=all&type=story)

~~~
zafka
Now strangely amused. This search shows the original time diff, but this
thread shows the article posted 2 hours earlier.

