
Recovering Emotions After 24 Years on Antidepressants - BobbyVsTheDevil
https://www.madinamerica.com/2018/10/recovering-emotions-24-years-antidepressants/
======
psergeant
The only thing that seems to be universally true about mental health is that
we’re all different, and someone else’s experiences rarely apply perfectly to
your own.

I put off getting on the meds for at least 15 years longer than I should have
done because of stories like this. They have been life changing lot positive
for me with almost no downsides.

In addition, I’ve read more than one story like this where the person
eventually decides it’s time to get back on the SSRIs after a year or two off.

Experiment, find what works for you, but these articles that are angry at big
pharma and describe pills as primarily bad need to be seen very much as just
localised experiences.

~~~
ssorina
I am also a bit skeptical when strong anti-Pharma opinions are expressed,
based on personal experience only. Meta-analyses have shown that for severe
depression, antidepressants are a first line of attack, only seconded or aided
by CBT, but not interchangeable in terms of efficacy. It's kind of stupid to
counterargue with yet another personal story, but for me not being able to
take SSRIs has proven to be a real problem. I developed a somewhat rare side-
effect with both SSRIs and SNRIs, I basically covered up in unexplanable
bruises and given the increased risk of internal bleeding, am cut off from
this medicine class completely. The only time in my life where I was not
crippled by anxiety was on these meds. I continually try relaxation, CBT, DBT
and whatnot, but unfortunately I am one of those who does not respond as well
to therapy as I do to medication. To be really honest, I am on the other side
of the fence: I hope big pharma comes up with something else than benzos and
SSRIs for anxiety, so that I can be relieved from the task of living my life
spiting anxiety 70% of the day.

~~~
throwaway895237
> I hope big pharma comes up with something else than benzos and SSRIs for
> anxiety, so that I can be relieved from the task of living my life spiting
> anxiety 70% of the day.

Have you tried psilocybin mushrooms or DMT? I'd been on meds for years
treating depression and anxiety. A few mushroom and DMT experiences have
basically cured my depression and anxiety and opened up a whole new way of
looking at things.

~~~
Fnoord
Yeah, I have used psilocybin mushrooms, DMT, and MDMA (and marihuana as well)
before I went to seek professional help (or, rather, after I was disappointed
with a previous professional endeavour and discredited the psych scientific
community as a whole). After that, I tried the psychiatrist route (got a
prescription) and eventually tried chronic gaming and alcoholism. _None_ of
that helped. Until I once more went via the professional route, and they found
out I have ASD. Now I have SSRIs to cut off the sharp edges related to being
oversensitive.

The great thing about the SSRI I use is verified content (I'm sensitive to
drugs..), its standardised (I'm still sensitive to drugs) and it has a high
half-life (again, I am very sensitive to drugs and if I forget to take a dose
in the morning I will notice it in the afternoon even with a half-life of a
few days). With the stuff you're suggesting though, you either don't know what
you get, you don't know how strong it is, or you're otherwise experimenting.

An accurate diagnosis was all it took. Its hindsight 20/20 but I wish I never
went with the routes which _didn 't_ work. I recommend to follow conventional
science first, and only if that is fully exhausted follow the path of
unconventional science (full with pseudoscience, charlatans, illegal drugs,
and what have you -- btw I used psilocybin and DMT when they were legal in my
country, and the amount of marihuana and MDMA was well within the
decriminalised amount).

TL;DR my advice, follow the scientific route, get professional help, get
second opinions. If its costing you your savings even though you don't get
immediate effect _I have been there as well_. I know that sucks, but it'll get
you further than the dark route I sketched above.

With regards to those drugs parent mentioned lets wait till there's scientific
consensus on these.

~~~
pmoriarty
It's sometimes not enough to simply use psychedelics. A lot has to do with the
way you use them, with what intention, in what context, with whom, and how you
follow up on and integrate your experience.

Plenty (most?) people take psychedelics without any kind of therapeutic or
constructive intention -- they take them to party, to escape, as an antidote
for boredom, etc. It's not surprising that such use of these powerful
substances could have undesirable or even very negative effects -- though
sometimes even such arguably reckless use still produces positive results.

Use of psychedelics in therapeutic and healing contexts tends to be very
different. The intention tends to be very different, with a focus on healing
or on a specific illness, symptom, or problem that the individual suffers
from. There is often serious preparation for the journey, ranging from ways of
purifying oneself (for psychedelic use in shamanic or other sacred contexts),
to sessions of therapy (when this has been done in Western medical contexts).

The actual trips themselves also tend to be handled quite differently in
healing/therapeutic contexts from recreational ones. In recreational contexts,
people often do it at parties, with the lights on, or maybe watching movies,
or maybe sometimes outside in nature. In therapeutic/healing context, the
lights tend to be very low or off, sometimes blindfolds are used, and the
focus internal. Music is often carefully selected to guide the journey.
Sometimes people are asked to look at photos of loved one they've brought with
them for this purpose. If things go wrong, trained support is available, and
instructions are given on how to the experience in a constructive way, while
in recreational settings the support is minimal and usually untrained, if it
exists at all.

After the experience, the recreational user is usually on their own in terms
of integrating and making sense of the experience, while in medical contexts
there are often followup therapy sessions with trained professionals who can
help in making sense of and constructively using whatever was uncovered during
the trip, and perhaps the scheduling of further experiences with modified
dosage, if needed.

I have no idea how your own psychedelic experiences were, but if they were
more of the recreational kind, I am not very surprised that you didn't get
much out of them.

~~~
Fnoord
The problem wasn't that I didn't get much out of them (I got a whole lot out
of these experiences else I would've quit after doing it once) the problem is
that it didn't gave me the ASD diagnosis or the long-term benefits of stable
SSRI usage together with education and work. If I knew back then that I had
ASD, I'd have benefited from that knowledge back then. In the meantime, I was
stuck with the notion that I have a (different) diagnosis but I cannot work
out how to apply that with my real-life. Sure, the circumstances were
different as well, and it is anecdotal.

The usage of drugs (recreational or not) without them being prescribed and
without a trained, licensed professional guiding you is indeed something
different than recreational usage for which the drugs I mentioned (psilocybin,
MDMA, marihuana, DMT) and A.muscaria are not licensed for anywhere AFAIK.

The recreational drug usage of psilocybin was, for me, almost exclusively done
in a safe, private setting though without bright light and with a careful
choice of music. Because otherwise it hurts. For DMT and A.muscaria, it was
exclusively done in such setting as well. I can guarantee you my focus was
inward however it cannot be compared to a licensed, educated babysitter who's
getting paid.

------
pasabagi
YMMV, but for me, anti-depressants allow me to have emootions. When I'm off
them, emotions are way too intense, so I clamp them all down until they're
barely there. After two years of anti-depressants, I'm finally able to listen
to music I really like, read books I find emotionally affective.

~~~
Fnoord
For me, Prozac (SSRI) cuts off those sharp edges. But when I started using it
I could barely walk with it (e.g. taking stairs gave me intense muscle
fatigue, nausea, and I was very tired in general), so strong it was
(eventually this initial effect faded away). I have an ASD diagnosis.

~~~
pasabagi
When I started on venlafaxin, I used to fall out of chairs. I think part of
what gives anti-depressants such a bad rap is they have a god-awful beginning
and end.

I still go around evangelising them, because I just can't bear to imagine all
the people who get put off by the (horrible) start and horror stories, and
live in purgatory for years with no light at the end of the tunnel. Because,
as far as I can see, side-effects usually just mean the dosage is wrong, or
the drug-combo is wrong.

~~~
towndrunk
I’m working my way off Venlafaxine after years of use. It’s been a horrible
experience. Brain zaps. Hearing odd noises. Crazy emotions. Feeling sick etc.
I backed up and started opening the capsules so I can count the number of
beads I take each day and then try to reduce by a few beads each week. It’s
been really tough to get off this stuff.

~~~
throwaway-efxr
Weaning off Venlaflaxine was absolute hell until I started taking Prozac as a
bridge. It still wasn’t great, but it was a fraction of its previous
awfulness.

Took me about nine months to wean off venlaflaxine, started the Prozac bridge
in the middle and grateful that I eventually used the bridge. Feeling better
now.

Good luck to you.

~~~
komali2
I went through the above journey as well and for me it was not worth it.
Psychotherapy combined with meditation was a far better treatment and thus why
I am hostile to any suggestions of medication from my psych. I simply don't
trust the drugs, at all, anymore.

~~~
Fnoord
Meditation/mindfulness is a proven method to alleviate the symptoms of
depression and anxiety such as a lack of focus. I use it regularly, and can
recommend it however psychotherapy with or without drugs would be my primary
recommendation.

It is going to take effort, either way. There's no magic stick which can be
waved to fix the issues at hand.

------
braindongle
Those of us in the field of psychiatric research encounter innumerable illness
narratives of this sort. Everyone has their own story to tell about what went
wrong and what helps.

While these anecdotes may be of value to the storyteller, they are at best
worthless if you are serious about understanding your options in mental
health. Evidence-based psychiatry is messy, but good people are working hard
to build credible evidence, and not just for pills. "Everything is biased by
pharma money" is often said by people on the sidelines. Psychiatric services
researchers know better.

Interested in meditation vs medication for depression? Start with a systematic
review in a reputable journal, like this:
[https://goo.gl/yN1asm](https://goo.gl/yN1asm)

------
justin_ht_dang
These type of personal anecdote fuelled by a general distrust of 'big pharma'
can be very misleading and discourage patients from seeking professional help.

I also want to point out that the author of that book she speaks highly of
also happened to be the Presiden of the publication[1]. I think not mentioning
this fact make the article even less credible.

[1] [https://www.madinamerica.com/staff-
page/](https://www.madinamerica.com/staff-page/)

------
odiroot
I'm a bit worried how many people on social media and Internet in general
(also here) are fighting some personal war against antidepressants. This is
not helping and may cause a lot of suffering to some people.

We're in some wacky second generation New Age where everything illogical is
the the obvious solution, just for the sake of breaking with the old.

There's really many people for whom literally no amount of talking, meditation
or working out (Internet's favourites) will help. Yes, for them, before they
can even start thinking about successful therapy (etc.), the chemical
imbalance is so strong they need to bring their bodies to the baseline (or
close to it).

Again, militantly opposing SSRIs creates very dangerous situation where people
in need can end up getting hurt or dead.

~~~
AnIdiotOnTheNet
As someone who spent a good amount of time on an SSRI, I get where they're
coming from. The people who prescribed them to me seemed to think I was fine,
and saw no reason I should try to get off them despite personality changes and
what I would term "an inability to experience". It was as though I was only
able to observe my own life from the outside.

The problem with SSRIs isn't that they can't be useful, it's that the medical
industry is full of people who don't seem to know how to use them. They just
wanted to throw a pill at the problem and get me out of their office as fast
as they could to extract maximum profit out of my visits.

~~~
hndamien
Unfortunately, unless the Dr prescribing them has taken them, it is very hard
to appreciate exactly what they are doing to you. There are very subtle
effects that are very important to being a happy human that these drugs
remove. The data supporting their effectiveness over the absence of them is
dubious as well. That isn't to say they don't work, just that over large
enough cohorts, the wins and the losses seem to cancel out.

------
dhubris
From past experience, about four months after I've tapered off anti-
depressants I'll want to die. It'll take about a year to recover once I'm back
on them.

But that's me. What works for me may not work for you. Unfortunately, a lot of
it is trail and error, along with a lot of hard work, to figure out what is
the best treatment for each individual. It sucks that this is the case.

At I wrote once upon a time[1]: "There is no silver bullet. Pragmatism trumps
opinion. If, and I stress, if what you are doing is working for you, then I
wish you good fortune, and would never tell you you're doing it the wrong
way."

[1]
[https://dhubris.livejournal.com/14447.html](https://dhubris.livejournal.com/14447.html)

------
DubiousPusher
I appreciate this person sharing their story. If you are struggling with
mental illness please be cautious before following this person's example. Her
circumstances may be very different from your own. If you want to consider a
simillar course please talk to your healthcare professionals and the people in
your support network first.

For every story of someone successfully discontinuing psychoactive there is
one that ends in disaster.

------
Spearchucker
American use of antidepressants comes up at dinner conversation every so
often. Stats are readily available, but what's less apparent is why it's so
widespread in the US. Does anyone have any ideas why this is?

~~~
projektfu
I'm taking a wild guess based on your domain name that you're in the UK.

It appears to be about 11% in the US, 7% in the UK. So, 63% more in the US,
but still a reasonably small fraction of the population. Or, if 11% is
sizable, so is 7%.

[https://www.businessinsider.com/countries-largest-
antidepres...](https://www.businessinsider.com/countries-largest-
antidepressant-drug-users-2016-2)

The question is how many suffer depression without medication, and how many
remain on antidepressants after recovering, as an insurance policy. Is there
less suffering in Korea? Or more stigma against using antidepressant drugs?

~~~
tk75x
11% of ~325 million vs 7% of ~65 million = ~31 million more people using
antidepressants in the US than the UK. Also I'd hardly say >10% is reasonably
small, but that's a judgement call.

------
tw1010
How do you recover emotions without ever having been on antidepressants?

~~~
psergeant
[https://www.thecut.com/2016/04/what-it-s-like-to-wake-up-
fro...](https://www.thecut.com/2016/04/what-it-s-like-to-wake-up-from-
autism.html)

~~~
PavlikPaja
Autistic people were never thought to lack emotions, in fact many complain
about feeling too intense emotions. The article is garbage.

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2518049/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2518049/)

[https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2010.0022...](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2010.00224/full)

~~~
gowld
Read the article, not the parent poster's mischaracterization of it. The very
first paragraph explains the autism+emotion issue.

Also your own sources contradict the claim "Autistic people were never thought
to lack emotions".

~~~
PavlikPaja
>Also your own sources contradict the claim "Autistic people were never
thought to lack emotions".

Where?

------
mnm1
It took me about a year to get to the point the author describes where I felt
nothing and didn't care whether I lived or died. I wasn't suicidal--at last I
don't think I was--but I was rapidly approaching that point. I was so
desperate, I let the doctor put me on benzodiazepines for anxiety even though
I knew from previous experience that I would not only become dependent but
addicted. After seven years of that, I had enough and stopped seeing all
doctors. I weaned myself off the benzos as no doctor I saw even knew how to do
it nor did they want to. It wasn't as hard as I thought. After I was off that,
the hard part started. Over the course of years I learned how to deal with
life again. Eventually I took up running, my own meditation equivalent and
soccer. Slowly things improved. It's not always great and many of the original
problems are still there but they are mostly manageable.

I'm lucky to be alive really. I try to remember all this suffering at the
hands of doctors and the pharma industry that could have been avoided. I will
have trust a so called mental health professional again, especially if they
are drug pushers. The conflict of interest was readily apparent throughout the
whole ordeal both when taking antidepressants and benzodiazepines. It's funny
how we demonize some drug dealers while having insurance coverage for others.
And all this without a single shred of proof that these medicines work, that
there is even such a thing as a chemical imbalance. Because there isn't. If
this is what mental health doctors call facts, the entire establishment has
failed and derailed into nothing more than making humongous profits from
getting people addicted to the drugs they push. It's fucking disgusting.

~~~
simen
I sympathize with you, I really do. I've had some similar experiences. But
you're overstating the case. Numerous meta-analyses have found that
antidepressants do work for people with severe depression, much better than
placebo. Unfortunately there's many people for whom they don't work, and even
when they work you may have to try many different kinds to find the right
one(s). The state of depression treatment is sadly not very good right now,
everyone knows this. But it's just not true that there's not "a single shred
of proof that these medicines work".

Depression treatment doesn't depend on "chemical imbalance" as an explanation
either. Research on _whether_ antidepressants work proceeds alongside research
on _why_ they work, if they do--usually studies on the efficacy of drugs are
completely independent of mechanism. They study clinical outcomes, not
neurochemical or larger structural brain issues.

So even if we had no idea why antidepressants (potentially) work, we could
still know that they do work based on clinical outcomes. And it's not exactly
true that we have no clue at all. The past 20 or so years the monoamine
hypothesis hasn't been the main avenue of research into the neurobiology of
depression. These days, it's at best considered one possible factor, not the
defining and only factor. There's a lot of research into the structural
changes that follow depression and recovery. For instance it's now known that
serotonin helps regulate the expression of BDNF, which in turn regulates the
growth and repair of brain cells and synapses. So it may well be that
serotonin triggers large-scale "repairs" in the brain in areas related to
emotional processing, such as the amygdala. Here you can see that the focus
isn't so much on individual levels of "chemicals" in the brain as on the
structure of the brain and how different natural and exogenous factors affect
that.

~~~
gcb0
just because it works better than placebo doesn't make it the best treatment.

all over the world, terapies works better than antidepressants, with
infinitely less undesirable side effects for patient and society. yet in the
US it is very common to treat depression (and many other conditions) with
drugs alone.

arguments against drugs is not favor of "don't do anything". that argument
would be extremely dumb.

just to give some perspective on how badly interpreted the data is in your
argument: brain-splitting surgery, which is still used for epilepsy, also
shows a cure for several other conditions, yet nowadays you would be a
criminal for even suggesting it for things it was widely used 20 years ago.

~~~
simen
As far as I'm aware therapy and antidepressants are equally effective, in the
studies that have actually compared them such as this one:
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3683266/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3683266/)
However that is only true in aggregate and obviously not necessarily true of
any given individual.

I'm really reluctant to get into any further discussion though because it
seems like you're arguing against things I never said, and bringing up
irrelevant, but extremely invasive and side-effect prone procedures like
hemispherectomy as if that proves that data about antidepressants is bunk,
which is just a complete non sequitur. It would be like bringing up
bloodletting or lobotomy as if that proves that the data about modern vaccines
NOT causing autism is bunk. Just a complete logical disconnect.

------
Random_Person
I've been tapering off of my antidepressant for 3 weeks now after 4 years.

The sudden flood of emotions has been weird, but familiar. I can't imagine
going decades without.

------
Nasrudith
From my experience SSRIs are like the prince searching for Cinderella with the
glass slippers in reverse - trying tons of them to find the one that finally
works. I have had all sorts of fun side effects until I got a combination that
was stable - the first one worked fine except for causing unsolicited panic
attacks, some had lesser side effects but worse depression, another left me
irritable and shifting strongly on political spectrum ironically. The
combination I'm on now wound up having the reverse with sexual side effects -
it improved things over not taking any medication.

I find it is completely the opposite for emotions with anti-depressants. They
don't suppress them but allow me to feel a wider range than just null, fear,
anger, and despair. There also are some therapeutic components as well and
they aren't a panacea. For one I have become more outspoken as I find
repressing my emotions is a depression trigger.

------
patrickg_zill
How did people deal with mental illness before these drugs were around?

I recall that melancholia was a real diagnosis a long time ago.

My personal view is that in some cases physical exercise can be helpful. I
have family that are on Wellbutrin etc., and others that studiously avoid any
drugs.

~~~
Nasrudith
The same way they dealt with infections before antibiotics - unhealthy self-
medication and at times dying.

------
Vaslo
I take a very small amount of Nortriptyline for horrible IBS. It has changed
my life. In addition, while the small dose does make me a little more tired,
my anxiety has improved and the debilitating effects of IBS have all but
vanished. These pills are like any treatment, they can open the gate to
Heaven, or if poorly managed, can open the gate to Hell.

------
dennisgorelik
> I was taking 500 mg of Nefazadone in the evening

\---

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nefazodone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nefazodone)

Nefazodone is available as 50 mg, 100 mg, 150 mg, 200 mg, and 250 mg tablets
for oral ingestion.

\---

Why would she take such a big dosage of antidepressants? Could she try to
reduce the dosage?

------
ocdtrekkie
I was forced into antidepressants by my parents when I was younger, and after
coming off of them, I realized I hadn't enjoyed things like music for years
while I was on them. Definitely something that had a negative impact on my
teen years and it took me years to recover.

But I recognize that for others it can be crucially necessary.

------
jccalhoun
Who is this person? I searched her name and didn't find anything that
indicated that she is someone to listen to about mental health.

------
interfixus
> _The causes of my depression were environmental. I grew up in a very
> dysfunctional family in Minnesota. My parents were both alcoholics and
> depressed, and their dysfunction became my growth environment_

This may be the case, and there may be corroborative evidence for such a
conclusion that we are not told about.

But as presented, it's just a set of circumstances, presumably correlated. If
both parents suffered depression, author might reasonably be supposed to have
a strong genetic predisposition.

------
choot
I am using Withania Somnifera to cure my depression. I've not experienced the
loss of emotions using it.

------
flaniganswake
Thank you for sharing this.

------
op00to
This article is absolute bullshit and quite frankly dangerous. It seems to me
this woman was emotionally vulnerable and taken in by a snake oil huckster
masquerading as a doctor.

> Shortly after I started seeing him, my new doctor had me read the book
> Anatomy of an Epidemic by Robert Whitaker.

Robert Whitaker's theses in that book have repeatedly been scientifically
disproven. It's anti-science drivel.

> The pharmaceutical industry also says that mental illness represents a
> physical problem with the brain that needs to be fixed. There are no studies
> that prove that this is true.

This statement is untrue. Literally three seconds of googling showed me this:
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4471964/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4471964/)

Which basically says that when we deplete the body of certain
neurotransmitters, people get depressed. That sounds like a pretty clear
statement that there are biological processes at play in mental illness.

~~~
baumgarn
I think you're stepping into a fallacy here. Of course every thought process
is bound to biological processes in the brain. So we can see this as some sort
of biochemical mapping of our understanding and perception of the world, and
our social status in it. Why should the solution to a negative outlook be to
mess with the chemistry alone, through drugs?

You can just as well ask the other way around, what kind of world and
experience is leading to such a detrimental biochemical mapping. The woman in
the article describes this herself, she was called fat and ugly by her father
throughout childhood. This has to do with social status, not brain chemistry.
I find it quite frankly disturbing that the solution to such a learned
insecurity should be just drugs.

~~~
thomasfedb
> Why should the solution to a negative outlook be to mess with the chemistry
> alone, through drugs?

Well perhaps because it works?

> We identified 28 552 citations and of these included 522 trials comprising
> 116 477 participants. In terms of efficacy, all antidepressants were more
> effective than placebo, with ORs ranging between 2·13 (95% credible interval
> [CrI] 1·89–2·41) for amitriptyline and 1·37 (1·16–1·63) for reboxetine.

Source:
[https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736\(17\)32802-7/fulltext)

Of course there's issues with publication bias, but this is the best evidence
we have to work with. Psychotherapy ("talking") also works, and so the
teaching I've received tells me to prescribe both in tandem, although the
drugs "alone" do help. I'm a student doctor.

> I find it quite frankly disturbing that the solution to such a learned
> insecurity should be just drugs.

I think your implicit suggestion here is that the correct treatment is
unlearning. I suggest that this is not always possible. The plausible
mechanism is that damage during development might result in "built in" changes
that can't be talked away.

~~~
Alex3917
> all antidepressants were more effective than placebo

Comparing them to placebo isn't appropriate, you need to compare them with an
active placebo and only look at studies that continue longer than two years.
Of which there are all of like 2 studies.

~~~
thomasfedb
You should remember that we do research on real humans. Sometime this means we
can't have the evidence we'd like to have.

Active placebos are designed to cause detriment to the patient - to cause side
effects to convince them they're not on the placebo. Getting ethics approval
to do randomised trials in depressed patients is hard enough without harming
your control group.

~~~
Alex3917
> Active placebos are designed to cause detriment to the patient

Patients on active placebos have reduced depression symptoms as compared with
patients on non-active placebos.

------
zahllos
I have had an anxiety problem for a long while now and like the author have
recently stopped taking medication for it. I've developed enough techniques
from a combination of therapies like mindfulness and CBT and have enough
support in place to check this is working that my doctor agrees with this
approach. Additionally, I felt the problems caused by the side effects of my
medication outweighed the benefits gained by taking it. Finally, I realized
that for me exercise simply isn't optional. I have at times in my life been
extremely fit and these times have always corresponded to the periods I've
handled my anxiety best.

I find the article somewhat troubling in that the author seems to imply that
antidepressants are a big pharma conspiracy and are difficult to stop. I
personally have had side effects - insomnia, sexual dysfunction, the "fog" the
author mentions, although I wouldn't describe it as zombie-like. There are
other possible side effects as well, like inducing the liver to release
enzymes into the blood stream that imitate fatty liver/liver failure in blood
tests, significant weight gain etc. However, I have not had all of these on
all tablets - on some, yes, on others, nothing at all. Regarding stopping, the
worst case was venlafaxine. I've heard people describe the experience as
"brain zaps". It feels a little bit like an electric shock in the brain and is
fairly unpleasant (this is with tapering down properly under medical
supervision). However, on no antidepressant have I ever felt the need to take
the tablet, or to take more of it than the prescribed dose and I have never
felt taking a lower dose while stopping to be problematic - it does not
resemble fighting addiction at all (I've known people who were addicts and for
some of them their addiction killed them, so I have some basis to make this
comparison).

Ultimately however, taking antidepressants is a trade off between how bad the
side effects are (and I stress that in some cases there were none) and the
benefit from the tablet (in some cases, none as well) versus the impact the
problem (depression/anxiety/...) is having on your day to day life. In my case
and I suspect in the author's case as well, at the time I started taking the
tablets the benefits outweighed the side effects and allowed me to be a
somewhat functioning member of society. By taking antidepressants I was able
access other treatments such as CBT and benefit a little from them, as well as
hold down a job. Also, it has to be said that when I first started having
problems with my disorder I didn't have anywhere near the same emotional
maturity or understanding of myself as I do today. I feel that this
understanding has a significant effect on my ability to use things like
mindfulness and CBT alone, without any other help - I am benefiting far more
from it now. I also wonder if the author would have been so successful with
meditation if they had used this and only this technique 24 years ago.

I suspect in many cases finding what works takes time and is a process that
can't really be avoided. I'm uncomfortable because the author is implying it
can be and moreover that antidepressants should always be avoided. I disagree.
I'm glad the author found something that helps and I'd also recommend
mindfulness, but I feel that sometimes people need help and antidepressants
are one option and that people shouldn't discount them based on articles like
this - instead they should have a thorough conversation with a medical
professional (if necessary, more than one) about their options.

------
brian_herman
:( depression is not fun

------
JustThrowMeAway

        After almost 25 years of taking antidepressants,
        I had no emotion left whatsoever. I felt dead and
        wanted to be dead.
    

I wonder how to understand this.

If you have no emotions, can you still want something? Why would you want to
die?

I tend to understand this sentence in a way that means she was suffering. But
isn't suffering the same as experiencing negative emotions?

Or is this supposed to mean that she had no _good_ emotions left, only painful
ones?

~~~
eugman
Think of a sine wave, with the y-axis representing the positivity/negitivity.
A representation of life's ups and downs.

I think what she was saying when she said "no emotion left" is that the
amplitude of that wave was nearly zero. The wave didn't go up or down much.
When she said, "I want to be dead", she's saying that the the average value is
down in the negatives.

