
Ubuntu, SUSE Linux, and Fedora Are All Coming to the Windows Store - ptrptr
https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/5/11/15625320/ubuntu-suse-linux-fedora-windows-store-microsoft-build-2017
======
hardwaresofton
While I can see this is an excellent strategy for the Windows platform, and
will probably make developers on Windows more productive, I for one will never
give up natively installed linux distributions for development.

It may be childish, but I resent Windows for every anti-privacy, anti-
competitive move they make, despite how much it is within their rights and
fitting with their corporate goals. Trying to put linux in windows and pretend
that they've been on the side of developers who push F/OSS this whole time is
a hard pill to swallow.

I recoil at the possibility that some developer 5 years from now might ask me
"Why bother installing your own linux distribution? You can just get Windows
Go 15 and run Arch/Ubuntu/SUSE from inside there. Don't forget to disable the
ads and tracking that come standard".

~~~
loudmax
On the other hand, we could be entering a phase where an open source developer
might say "Why bother porting to Windows? Just target Arch/Ubuntu/SUSE."

~~~
hardwaresofton
tl/dr: Simply put, the cross platform distribution problem is solved (in way
more ways than one), but I think the combination electron/nw.js + cross-
platform-from-the-get-go languages will win, instead of other options like QT.
I think it might be a waste of time to target a distribution and hope it gets
ported reasonably to Windows, clouding your codebase in the process.

While possibly a highly unpopular opinion, this is where I think solutions
like Electron/Node Webkit fit perfectly.I think this is actually kind of
already solved (just not with the tools that everyone may want). We shouldn't
be even aiming for any particular distribution to begin with, at the expense
of a larger executable and less-than-native UI performance, you get write once
ship just-about-everywhere when you use tools like electron/node webkit.

Developers often hate web programming, but it's just about the only easy to
pick up, and relatively consistent tool for the job of platforms that "just
work" (pretty much) everywhere right now. It even seems like the best way to
do it going forward, given that:

\- Browser companies will work hard towards making browsers faster and
efficient, because it's in their best interest (which is the best kind of
guarantee).

\- Cross-platform minded languages like Go or Rust will become more popular
for those who want to get away from using JS at all, and JS could basically
become an RPC layer for the "real" application

\- Once WASM really takes to the mainstream, languages will just compile it to
it. WASM already has LLVM support, so there's a bunch of languages for free
already.

So soon, JS won't even be the sticking point in why people dislike
distributing cross-platform apps with Electron/NodeJS, then we'll focus on
things like executable size and memory usage, and solutions will pop up for
those things too.

<tl/dr goes here>

~~~
arglwarg
> While possibly a highly unpopular opinion, this is where I think solutions
> like Electron/Node Webkit fit perfectly.

Well ...:
[https://twitter.com/jacobrossi/status/851992646151278592](https://twitter.com/jacobrossi/status/851992646151278592)

~~~
hardwaresofton
Nothing is secure. That post is basically spreading FUD as far as I'm
concerned. There isn't even a point of comparison to any other distribution
platform/native toolkit.

I also trust browser vendors to focus on keeping stripped-down versions of
their core products secure more than I just joe/jane schmoe the app developer
that just learned how to use QT/Swing/whatever.

------
notum
WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux) isn't virtualized, as the article states.

[https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/wsl/2016/04/22/windows-
subs...](https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/wsl/2016/04/22/windows-subsystem-
for-linux-overview/)

It's aim is to run Linux binaries natively. The degree of it's usefulness,
issues and filesystem interoperability was discussed before so won't get into
that.

~~~
Drakim
So it's sorta like a reverse WINE?

~~~
notum
Sort of? Exactly! Windows Is Not an Emulator!

~~~
cerved
Awesome! Can't wait to install linux on WINE

~~~
JoBrad
Wine does work in WSL, so you can install WSL on your Windows box, then use
WINE to run a Windows app on the Linux instance on your Windows box.

~~~
sevensor
Are people doing this to play Win9x-era games? I find Wine does a better job
being compatible with old Win32 applications than Windows does.

~~~
Doxin
Don't most win9x games also run on DOS? because in that case dosbox is a great
solution. I might be misremembering DOS/9x compatibility though.

------
cerved
I like Windows, I like Linux, I like this news.

~~~
SmellyGeekBoy
We don't take kindly to folks like you 'round here. Please pick a side
immediately.

~~~
cerved
A large french fries with mayo please

------
ramshanker
Guess the only reason to have VMWare on my windows machine is going away soon.

Hope there are some reduction in computational overhead.

~~~
glenneroo
I'm guessing they talked with VMWare before doing this? I wonder what
implications/benefits this has for VMWare, since their (limited) Player has
been free for a while now.

Then again, according to Wikipedia, maybe they were already planning for this?

> VMware Workstation versions 12.0.0, 12.0.1, and 12.1.0 were released at
> intervals of about two months in 2015.[61] In January 2016 the entire
> development team behind VMware Workstation and Fusion was disbanded and all
> US developers were immediately fired.[8][9][10][12] The future of these
> products remained vague; the company said that development would continue.
> On April 24, 2016, maintenance release 12.1.1 was released. VMware announced
> the release on 8 September 2016 of Workstation 12.5 and Fusion 8.5 as a free
> upgrade supporting Windows 10 Anniversary edition and Windows Server
> 2016.[13]

~~~
sorenjan
There are other reasons to want to use a VM, like guest isolation and multiple
environments. I like to run unknown software in a VM first.

~~~
shortlyfinally
VMWare is great for setting up a test networking environment too.
Workstation's virtual interface setup is nice and allowed me to test a host of
operating systems, a custom router to test firewall rules, 802.1x security and
a RADIUS server. All in a simple virtual environment.

------
fb03
Genuine question: Why not just virtualbox/vmware it up with an ISO ? That's
how I've been doing for years and it works just fine.

~~~
ygra
It's a different approach. WSL is more like CoLinux back in the day, in that
Windows and Linux kernels run alongside each other. Even a bit better
integrated because processes across both worlds can run each other, and see
and talk to each other.

No one is taking away your VM, don't worry.

~~~
detaro
WSL doesn't run a Linux kernel – a Windows Subsystem just provides a different
API to the underlying Windows kernel, in this case the API Linux applications
expect. So arguably, it's even further from a VM than CoLinux.

~~~
fb03
Do you know if they already have proper X support? Or is it just a matter of
compiling X.org and running it yourself?

~~~
detaro
I haven't followed this, but last I've seen a while ago was that you could run
an X-server for Windows and then have Linux applications talk to that (and the
normal environment didn't have dbus and things like that)

~~~
Piskvorrr
Indeed. For years now, I've been running MobaXTerm - which is a toolset,
including a proprietary X server for Windows. Quite convenient.

(Full disclosure: no relation to product, user only)

------
JoBrad
For me, the big news is being able to install the distros on your non-system
drive, as well as being able to run multiple distros at the same time. Pretty
cool.

------
julio83
Is-it docker compatible?

~~~
sitepodmatt
Dockerd relies on kernel features like cgroups and namespaces so I doubt the
docker daemon can run inside WSL. There is a docker daemon for windows that I
believes uses hyperv as container runtime. You could probably run docker cli
inside wsl if you could expose the socket on the host to it (guessing)

~~~
raesene6
Docker on windows seems to be a little bit complex.

There's Docker for windows which allows for linux docker containers to be run
on windows, using Hyper-V.

Then there's Windows Container Services which allows for Windows Docker
containers. Those can either be run on the host kernel or they can be isolated
in a Hyper-V layer.

------
RichardHeart
Embrace...Extend...

------
filomeno
Are we submitting this story every day?

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14317482](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14317482)

~~~
qb45
Yes, we are.

Parent's link is btw much better and straight from the horse's mouth, more
details and doesn't confuse WSL with virtualization.

------
douche
The installation process for the WSL still blows - and I say that as somebody
who really likes this feature.

I tried doing it today on my laptop:

1.) Open up the Programs and Features control panel.

2.) Go to Turn Windows Features on or off

3.) Select the Windows Subsystem for Linux option and hit OK. Installs,
prompts for reboot.

4.) Try to launch C:\Windows\System32\bash.exe. Console window flashes
momentarily and disappears.

5.) Open CMD window and run bash.exe. See a message that says "In order to use
this feature you must have Developer Mode enabled."

6.) Faff around trying to find where the developer mode switch is hidden, in
the newer Settings app. Enable that. Wait five-ten minutes as it does...
things. Reboot again.

7.) Try to run bash again, and again console window flashes in and out of
existence in a millisecond. Run it again from a CMD window. Type "y" to accept
license terms. More things download from the Windows Store(?). Create a linux
account.

8.) Finally have bash working on Windows, albeit in the terrible, terrible
default console shell. Go look up how to setup ConEmu...

This really should be streamlined a little bit, right?

~~~
JBiserkov
Hate to be that guy, but you missed Step 0: Read The Fine Installation
Instructions.

Also, the default console shell has gotten a ton of improvements.

