
Building a company is fucking hard - navidkhn1
https://nvdk.co/2018/11/28/entrepreneurship/building-a-company-is-fucking-hard/
======
tnolet
Not dissing the general message. Startups can be brutal, but still. Dude is 22
and claims having seen more hardship than others. Try dealing with raising
kids, health issues, sick family members, dying friends, mid life (all of
which will probably happen as you near the age 40) and a startup will look
like a pleasant distraction from the actual hard stuff in life.

I,d say enjoy being 22, don’t take yourself to seriously and reflection will
come with age.

~~~
faitswulff
I wonder if the median age of HackerNews readers has shifted through the
years? I started reading HN probably around my early 20s, if not sooner, and
now I'm in my thirties with children. Life doesn't get easier or less complex
as time goes on, that's for sure.

~~~
jonbarker
HN readership is definitely skewing mid 30s at this point.

~~~
drwl
do you have any data to back this up?

~~~
mayankkaizen
I am 37 and judging by the comments here, I feel like average user age is
above around 40.

~~~
0xferruccio
I’m 21 but don’t comment a lot as it’s a bit intimidating. As far as I
perceive top commenters are older than me as they usually have a lot of
experience in the topic they’re discussing. I bet many people my age feel the
same

------
jacknews
Some very good points, though the tone slightly reminds me of the the Mark
Twain quote: “When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly
stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at
how much the old man had learned in seven years.”

It's certainly very difficult to start a business from scratch, and to grow
it.

A trick is if you can spin off a job into a contract, into a larger contract,
etc, with the same customer(s), ideally people who may move to larger
companies, and carry the relationship with them.

~~~
theoretick
As a sidenote: I looked it up because I was curious and apparently that quote
is a misattribute: [https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/10/10/twain-
father/](https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/10/10/twain-father/)

~~~
jiveturkey
lol. famously, most Mark Twain quotes are misattributed.

------
dqpb
> _I have yet experienced more in these four years than most people do in all
> of their lives._

Lol, hearing that from a 22 year old.

~~~
tw1010
A lot of old people have been comfortable their entire adult lives.

~~~
Insanity
I'm not sure what you mean by 'comfortable'. But let's assume you mean
'figured out life'. I used to think that people knew what they were doing as
they were getting older.

I'm still 'young', my wife and I are late 20s, early 30s. And I have given up
the idea on 'figuring it out'.

~~~
beckler
This. Right here. Currently in my late 20's. I have nothing figured out, and I
stopped trying to figure things out a while ago.

------
cik
There's an old adage that successful people surround themselves with success.
It's all about cohort - if you don't have other friends who are pushing
themselves the way you are, it will be very, very, hard. It doesn't matter if
you're in tech and your friend is in gardening, what matters is the shared
struggle, and dreams. It helps knowing you're in a boat others have been in
before.

Spouses/partners can understand and support - but (most) haven't been through
it, and there's just a different conversation that can be had with others who
have. That's not a negative, it's a reminder that it really does take all
types.

~~~
lotsofpulp
This is why it's important to grow up in the right zip code, do well in
school, score high enough on standardized tests, get into the best
universities. If you want to maximize your chances of getting to the top, the
best way to do that is to know the right people.

~~~
iagooar
Great advice! That's like saying that it's super easy to become rich. It just
takes 2 easy steps: Step 1. Be born into a rich family. Step 2: Get
inheritance cash.

~~~
gowld
Don't be so morbid. If you have a rich family, you can get plenty of capital
without anyone dying.

------
jaysonelliot
Two important points in that essay:

 _You will need friends_

 _You will need mentors_

This is 100% true, so I have a question. How do you find those when you're
already spending all of your time on your startup and new to town without a
support network in place?

~~~
kareemm
I moved to a new city in Jan where I know one person, am starting a new
company, and have a young family (e.g. limited time). In the last month I've:

1\. Spoken to a group of CEOs about how to solve their product management
issues

2\. Organized a group of 6 product managers for drinks (I had met two of them
once)

3\. Demonstrated credibility and a willingness to help enough that I've gotten
a bunch of inbound intros to help people with their Product problems

Here's what I did:

1\. Connected with people at the local startup hub. There's only one here as
it's a small city (< 500k people). I've been working in tech since 2001 and
have cultivated a fairly broad network. I was thus able to get an intro to the
CEO of the hub here which helped immensely.

2\. Share my knowledge. I've been doing Product Management for 16+ years.
That's a skill that's needed here. So doing talks through the hub has enabled
me to meet people and establish credibility. I put the word out that I'll meet
with anybody in the local community to see if I can help with their product
issues, and now people are sending me intros to others.

3\. Organize people. It takes so little to organize a small group of like-
minded folks. Last night I got 6 other Product Managers together here at a bar
to talk shop. It was a matter of putting the word out amongst people I'd met
via steps 1 and 2 with a time, date, and location.

If you lather, rinse, and repeat steps 2 and 3 you'll establish a good
community because you're helping others level up.

Think about this time as an investment in your long term success. Work doesn't
always look like writing code or talking to customers - having a peer group
and mentors you can learn from will help with strategy, tactics,
accountability, and - most importantly - your mental health.

~~~
jaysonelliot
This is very solid, actionable advice that I can follow. Great point about
"work doesn't always look like work." Thank you!

------
GuiA
_If I set out to tell you the story of my life, there isn’t much – and yet, a
whole lot! I’ve only been up and around for about 4 years, a happy ignorant
high school teenager before that. I have yet experienced more in these four
years than most people do in all of their lives._

Ah, the folly of youth. Of course you are more special than everyone else. Of
course you are smarter than everyone else. Of course you have experienced more
than everyone else.

I certainly was as well at 22.

 _”When I was seventeen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to
have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-five, I was astonished at
how much he had learned in eight years.”_

------
retube
> I have yet experienced more in these four years than most people do in all
> of their lives.

oh please. how embarrassing

------
meesles
I've already ranted against blog posts titled 'X is Hard'. Yet another hits
the top post on HN. Yes, most things are hard, especially when you can
describe it in detail as an 'expert'. To a layman, anything can be hard.

These always come off as ego pieces to me justifying why they're worth money
or why they should be hired. How about you just let your work represent you?

~~~
randomsearch
I agree the title is a poor one, but I think there is some useful advice in
the article, e.g. taking it easy when the week is hard.

------
ErikAugust
"Most start ups will die because of mistakes made from the one bucket of
common errors – about 90% of them. These include bad financial management,
hiring errors, product errors, marketing errors, etc. I believe they can be
easily avoided, but can also be easily forgotten about when you’re busy
hustling."

As far as I remember the reason most companies were dying (from a YC survey, I
believe?) was product-market fit. This is not something that can be "easily
avoided", and certainly not by simply having a mentor.

------
ArtWomb
I think Mark Cuban on Shark Tank used to tell founders this. Don't start a
company because you have a world-altering idea. Start a company because you
love starting companies.

~~~
vinceguidry
What would he have you do if you have a world-altering idea? A company is
still the best vehicle for seeing it actually change the world.

~~~
gowld
If you have a world-altering idea, and you want to alter the world, but you
don't actually like to _do the work_ (which is what Cuban was warning about),
then don't build a company -- tell people your idea (try to sell it if you
want, but if you don't like doing the work of selling, just give it away) and
let someone who wants to the work do the work.

This is how academics and think-tanks and pundits operate.

Of course, what you'll find is that ideas are a dime a dozen and yours likely
aren't novel. Execution is the best vehicle does changing the world, and it
doesn't matter whose ideas you execute on; what matters is that you like
executing.

~~~
vinceguidry
The quote was that you should only start a company if you "love starting
companies." It's not about being willing to do the work or not. I can do work
I don't love. In fact, that's most of the work I do.

------
tw1010
I mean, if you're experienced, plan ahead (mentally and economically), and
have a good idea and product market fit, it doesn't have to be torture, or
even that hard. It's like trying to prove a really hard theorem. For Goedel
proving the incompleteness theorem was probably incredibly hard, but he did
achieve it in the end (thanks to previous experience and training and because
he tackled a good problem with respect to his skills), but for most
mathematicians that'd be impossible or torture. I know what I'm saying sounds
mean or cruel, but I mean it's the truth.

~~~
ryanmarsh
Business is hard when you get emotionally invested. Otherwise it’s just work.
As I’ve gotten older I feel like the latter perspective has helped me handle
the challenges better and make better decisions.

The more I look at my business as “just work” and not some egotistical search
for meaning the better I am at it.

------
sealthedeal
I applaud the kid for taking the jump into entrepreneurship at a young age.
The one thing I think young entrepreneurs like him make is never working in
industry/corporate/working for multiple startups before they start their own.
You need to walk before you run. Its like apprenticeship, you go to a
company/companies and learn how processes work, learn what efficiency means,
learn how decisions get made, learn different ways of management or how
different CEO's run a company, etc. I wish the OP best of luck, dont get to
down in the dumps, you are only 22 and have already had an acquisition, and
employed 15 people!

------
davidscolgan
Yes it is. Finding a community has helped me greatly. Two years ago it was
literally just me.

Now I have a therapist, a coach, a private freelancer community, three
mastermind groups, an in-person entrepreneur meetup, three Slack groups, and a
mailing list I write to and get feedback from.

The difference between now and two years ago is massive.

Something else that helps is not having a runway. After taking a year off and
spending all of my money without much to show for it, I'm all in on the
strategy of spending 50% of my time on freelance and 50% on building a
business. Infinite runway and way less stress. YMMV.

------
mlthoughts2018
I don’t find the problem of creating a company to be an interesting benchmark
of discussion.

Why aren’t we talking about creating ethical companies and how to make it
easier for companies to not seek to be corrupt, or set up barriers to
corruption that are more verifiably not manipulable by those already with
wealth or power?

I can’t see how any other angle of discussion about creating companies can be
worth anyone’s time until that is better sorted.

~~~
DoofusOfDeath
> I can’t see how any other angle of discussion about creating companies can
> be worth anyone’s time until that is better sorted.

People differ regarding their personal ethics, ambitions, interests, and
abilities.

If you make a compelling argument that your concerns are objectively the
highest priority for discussion, even then only a fraction of the community
will care to engage on the topic.

~~~
mlthoughts2018
I think that standard sort of reasoning is inadequate given the degree of
corruption that is deeply evident in corporate behavior and the impact it has
on basic lives.

For your explanation to be adequate, there would have to be such extreme
indiosyncratic variation in the most common of human ethical standards
relating to murder, sexual assault, gross scale bribery, child exploitation
and many other issues that, from a cultural anthropology point of view, seem
to yield a very highly correlated set of ethical norms across almost all of
the developed world.

It just seems implausible compared with alternative explanations, like
intentional large scale paychological manipulation.

------
ryanmarsh
I can remember feeling similarly at his age and expressing myself similarly. I
think others here shouldn’t fault him for behaving in a manner commensurate
with his age and experience level. This guy will mature over time. He will
some day be 40 and if he keeps learning like this he might be pretty
successful. You could use this opportunity to get to know him.

------
pplonski86
Building is hard in general. I don't like if people say I need to hustle - I
like to build in peace in my mind.

------
the_clarence
I like the fact that quotes keep you going for long period of time. I am
exactly the same, different quotes have kept me going at different point of my
life. This is such a simple trick that many would be quick to dismiss it or to
forget about it.

One reason to subscribre to /r/getmotivated I guess :)

------
jonbarker
To complicate matters, you really have to decide ahead of time whether the
licensing route a la Stephen Key isn't a better or more efficient option if
what you are looking to do is just get a product out there and help people.
Not a company, yet potentially more impact.

------
mrcoder111
This article would have been way more interesting if you filled it with actual
business lessons and examples. Instead, it's filled with vague self help
messages...

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PopeDotNinja
Yes, yes it is.

Source: started a company and learned many things the hard way.

------
SpecialistEMT
If running a company as a young white male from the west is hard then i dont
know what is easy. Smh

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ixtli
I would pay to see a video of this person reading this again when he's 44.

------
readhn
Building a company is not hard. (Look around, we are surrounded by
businesses).

Building financially and ethically sustainable business that employs people
that are truly happy to work there IS hard.

~~~
srrge
I don't understand why you are downvoted, because you are right.

Conducting a successful career is also very hard. Let alone a successful
marriage! Or getting fit, loosing weight.

You want to build a company? Just do it. It's not harder than other things in
life.

Edit: some words.

~~~
vecter
Building a successful startup is infinitely harder than having a successful
career as an employee.

~~~
readhn
Because building a successful company = building many successful careers. The
point that many companies still do not get!!!

You absolutely have to invest in your people in a best possible way if you are
interested at all in building a GREAT company.

------
joering2
Can we alter the title somehow? I know for a fact that kids age 13 and 15 are
reading HN daily...

~~~
DoofusOfDeath
Same for me. The language adds approximately nothing to the discussion.

~~~
freehunter
I would argue that complaining about the language adds nothing to the
discussion. Whether it's in the title or in the comments, you can't reasonably
expect to censor bad language across the entire site, let alone the entire
Internet. Far more offensive content gets posted here than a single swear word
in the title of an article.

