
Uber says it's leaving Quebec if province insists on stricter rules - drpgq
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/montreal/uber-quebec-leave-1.4307065
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kitcar
Last time I was in Montreal my Uber driver wouldn't drop me at the airport,
instead he dropped me at a hotel attached to the airport - he told me reason
being in Montreal undercover police officers have been known to wait in the
departures drop-off area and impound cars if they suspect you to be an Uber
driver.

Interesting side note the driver actually was an airport employee - he would
drive for Uber twice a day, once to work (he would hang out by the area of the
city with lots of Hotels to try and catch and airport trip) and once on the
way home. I thought that was kind of awesome.

~~~
solotronics
there should be an Uber mode where the driver enters their destination and
they get a notification when someone else is going to the same place

~~~
schnevets
I always thought this idea had greater potential for extremely long car rides.
If I'm taking a business trip from NYC to Boston, I'd be okay with a tagalong
as long as they provide some gas money. It would have to be something
scheduled in advance, but the ride would probably be more pleasant than taking
a bus, and I'd be willing to drop the tagalong off somewhere besides the city
square.

~~~
mastax
This sounds like BlaBlaCar which is (I hear) popular in Europe.

~~~
sprafa
it's relatively popular.

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doktrin
Good for Quebec. This could quite feasibly lead to the development of a local
competitor, providing job opportunities for local developers and tax dollars
for the region / country.

Ride sharing services are here to stay, but there's no particular reason that
service has to be named 'Uber'.

~~~
moduspol
But Uber operates without significant issue in countless other markets all
over the world without the training Quebec requires.

Is it possible the training is not as necessary as presumed?

Aren't we opening up a can of worms by praising the idea of creating needless
regulations to keep the status quo simply because it's perceived to be more
local?

~~~
scaryclam
We can definitely count the markets in which Uber operate, so that statement
is a bit silly (hint look here [https://www.uber.com/en-
GB/cities/](https://www.uber.com/en-GB/cities/) and count them).

They also definitely do _not_ operate without significant issue in a many of
them.

Regulation for taxi services is important. The adverts in some countries
telling you not to take unlicensed taxis are not there for fun. The training's
there to _help_ drivers. Anyone who can't be bothered is probably not serious
about being a good driver or playing by the rules and shouldn't be welcomed
into the industry.

~~~
moduspol
> We can definitely count the markets in which Uber operate, so that statement
> is a bit silly (hint look here [https://www.uber.com/en-
> GB/cities/](https://www.uber.com/en-GB/cities/) and count them).

In this context, "countless" was hyperbole. Obviously the Earth has limited
places in which they can operate.

> They also definitely do not operate without significant issue in a many of
> them.

And in many of those, the "issues" are based on municipalities applying
unreasonable or taxi-specialized regulations onto them. That in no way implies
the service doesn't work, isn't safe, or isn't extremely popular and a great
improvement over taxis.

It simply means the right people in the right places would rather protect the
status quo than rationally assess the situation and revise policy where
necessary.

> Regulation for taxi services is important. The adverts in some countries
> telling you not to take unlicensed taxis are not there for fun. The
> training's there to help drivers. Anyone who can't be bothered is probably
> not serious about being a good driver or playing by the rules and shouldn't
> be welcomed into the industry.

Nobody's arguing against regulation of taxi services.

The question is whether or not 35 hours of training is reasonable for Quebec
only when somehow the rest of the world seems to get by without it. It is also
not the case that nobody ever gets hurt, kidnapped, or stolen from by even
"trained" taxi drivers.

Lawmakers and regulators need to start using common sense and acting in the
best interests of consumers instead of the taxi lobby.

~~~
cucuuc
35 hrs is less than half of a class during a semester. The MSF can give you 10
hours of motorcycle training in a single weekend.

By comparison, to become a licensed barber (or electrician, etc) typically
requires thousands of hours as an apprentice.

Hardly seems like a huge burden by comparison.

~~~
moduspol
It certainly isn't if you're planning to make it your career, but Uber markets
driving for them as flexible and easy with little/no up-front costs.

Clearly this would affect ride-sharing companies more than taxi companies, and
it's likely no coincidence.

~~~
s73ver_
Given that, right now, taxi companies do have to do this, and Uber doesn't, I
would say no, this is going to affect Uber the same. As it should.

~~~
moduspol
Yep. And a policy that limited maximum driver hours to 20 per week would
"apply equally to taxis and Uber," but would clearly hit taxis a lot harder
than Uber.

This is protectionism under the guise of "fairness." Nothing more.

~~~
s73ver_
I completely disagree. There is nothing unfair about this move. It affects
both parties equally.

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fortythirteen
This is a terribly stupid bluff. Nobody is going to march on city hall because
they won't relax regulations for the whims of a single, multi-national
company.

It seems at least once a week we get another story showing how utterly
incompetent the executives in charge of Uber's public image are.

~~~
simias
Well at this time their "Save Your Uber in London" petition[1] collected
nearly 800k signatures. I find it quite baffling because I'm not sure why on
earth would I ever petition for a big multinational company known for its
shady tactics but here you go. Clearly Uber's executives, or at least their PR
department, must be doing something right.

[1] [https://www.change.org/p/save-your-uber-in-london-
saveyourub...](https://www.change.org/p/save-your-uber-in-london-saveyouruber)

~~~
microcolonel
> _I find it quite baffling because I 'm not sure why on earth would I ever
> petition for a big multinational company known for its shady tactics but
> here you go_

Because you want to use their service, and you want their competitors to be
able to play by the same rules. For example, I don't have to have something
controversial to say before I defend free speech; I don't have to want to
cross any particular private lot before I'd vouch for freedom of movement.

~~~
s73ver_
But this whole things started specifically because Uber wasn't playing by the
same rules.

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nyxtom
I'm really tired of this multi-national corporations thinking they can come in
and destroy the local market while leaving pennies for the employees; let
alone not comply with local regulations. Good riddance!

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simlevesque
They destroyed evidence while they were under investigation in Quebec and they
won't pay any taxes... good riddance!

~~~
TwoNineA
Exactly. Someone please invent a particle sized violin so we can play them.

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juliend2
Good riddance.

In Montreal we have [Téo Taxi]([http://teomtl.com/](http://teomtl.com/)),
which is far better, IMO (although more expensive) and more fair with its
employees (They get enough by working only 8h/day, compared to previously with
Uber or other old-school companies).

All electric cars with free wifi in them. The app is on par with Uber's, and
the drivers are always nice.

~~~
microcolonel
Isn't being more expensive part of the problem? I think one of the main things
that is "better" about Uber is how comparatively cheap it is. I know a couple
of people who make enough money not to really care what they spend day-to-day,
but I suspect that for most people that few dollars per fare is the difference
between viable and unacceptable.

~~~
pixl97
>Isn't being more expensive part of the problem?

It is a big part of the problem when Uber is using VC money to subsidize part
of the trip and when Uber isn't following safety/training/insurance
regulations.

People are funny about that. They will bitch and moan about how expensive
something is, but the second something goes wrong they want more safety
features and regulation, in spite of the cost increase it will bring.

~~~
nyxtom
This ^^^^ Uber operates at a loss which is based on a grandiose vision of the
future. It's their only way to undercut competition.

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nyxtom
So if you’re an entrepreneur, and circumventing employment regulation is your
benchmark for ‘innovation’, it’s really time to get a new playbook.

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EternalData
I'm not sure what Uber thinks is so different about what they provide at this
point. There's a lot of work in Montreal already on alternatives for Uber --
I'm sure that will continue.

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ThatGeoGuy
They pretty much said the same thing about Calgary, and yet after review they
still followed the regulations and are to this day operating in the city.

I find it hard to believe Quebec will act terribly different.

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yarrel
Excuse me while I open my app that uses VC cash to double the payment I send
to the nearest amateur violin player in order to play a really, really sad
tune.

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jacquesm
35 hours of training is too much?

I'd say as job training comes that's rather on the low side.

And I'm sure Quebec is quaking in its boots by Uber's threat to leave.

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Iv
"You are not throwing me out! I chose to quit you first!"

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eljimmy
The article doesn't go into details on what this training entails. Anyone from
MTL know what they would be doing for those 35 hours?

~~~
malandrew
This is what I'm curious about too. It doesn't say what the 20 hours of
training entails or what additional material will be learned in 35 hours.
Focusing on hours in general sounds really dumb. Why not focus on content?
Define what drivers need to know regardless of how long the training takes.
That allows Uber to produce better and better training materials that shortens
the number of hours while still satisfying the reason the requirement for
training exists in the first place.

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xfour
Up next the Austin method. Local competition fills the void providing better
service than before proving that it's the technology not the company that's
making the difference. Being Canada it would be funny to see a government
corporation as the replacement ala liquor.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Non-austenite here. If I arrive in Austin by plane and Uber or Lyft isn't
working, knowing nothing about the local alternatives, I guess I have to take
a cab.

~~~
matthewmacleod
You could just spend a few minutes researching that before you arrive or
something… it's hardly the biggest imposition.

~~~
ghaff
Or even just... take a cab? Other than the lack of VC subsidies, even in
cities that don't have great taxi services generally, taxis usually work
reasonably well getting to and from the airport.

~~~
smilekzs
while ripping you off ($)

~~~
vkou
Where do you think the money that you pay for a taxi fare goes? Who exactly do
you think is getting rich off this rip-off?

Have you considered that perhaps, the cost of a taxi fare is close to the cost
of operating a car + having a 60 hour-week driver make a living wage (Without
VC subsidies)?

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brndnmtthws
Uber doesn't want to comply with regulations because it takes away their
advantage? Gee, what a surprise.

~~~
cperciva
These regulations arguably put Uber at a significant _disadvantage_. 35 hours
of training is annoying if you're going to be driving a taxi for 60 hours a
week; it's prohibitive if you're considering driving an Uber for 6 hours a
week.

~~~
mikeash
Training requirements should be based on safety requirements, which are the
same whether you're on the road for 6 hours a week or 60.

~~~
1_2__4
> Training requirements should be based on safety requirements, which are the
> same whether you're on the road for 6 hours a week or 60.

While I agree with you in principle, there's no indication that this is
anything but regulatory capture. There's no municipality in the western world
that requires this much training for Uber drivers; would you say there's a
problem there that needs solving, and that Quebec's legislated response is a
reasonable solution? I'm personally skeptical.

~~~
scaryclam
If you want to drive a black cab in London (green badge holders), you're going
to have to do a hell of a lot more than a paltry 35 hours of training:
[https://www.theknowledgetaxi.co.uk/](https://www.theknowledgetaxi.co.uk/)

On average, drivers take 2-4 years to learn London well enough to pass!

~~~
civilian
London streets are um... a _legacy_ system, so it's not surprising that it
takes more time. I'm not sure if Black Cabs hold a monopoly on London taxis,
but if they are competing in a market, then it's just that they are providing
a higher level of service, and are training at that level. Waze + a human will
probably do a "good enough" job.

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brango
Doesn't that sort of attitude play into TfL's hand in London? Another example
of Uber not willing to play by the rules, especially ones arguably safety-
related?

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Waterluvian
Like a kid taking his toys home because you won't play his game. I would love
to see some sort of framework that facilitates ride sharing without it being
attached to a single company.

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Apocryphon
Sounds like a potential entrant for Lyft's first market outside of the U.S.

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devdevdev83
Yes, please leave.

