
Ask HN: Do you trademark your brand / app name / business? - moonshine
I'm curious if it's common or recommended for a web app to trademark their name early on.  It would cost $2000 (+$1000 to respond to complaints) to file, if that helps.<p>Does anyone have any experience or recommendations ?
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jakestein
I just went through the trademark process with my business. If you use the
abbreviated form the filing fee is $275.
[http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/ac/qs/ope/fee2009january01_...](http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/ac/qs/ope/fee2009january01_2009jan12.htm#tm)

Costs beyond that are lawyer's time for doing a trademark search and filing
the paperwork. I used a lawyer (and ended up spending about $1,200 including
filing fees), but you can also file it yourself if money is tight.

I think it's definitely worthwhile. The odds of having to make use of your
trademark are low, but having the trademark is extremely valuable if someone
comes out with a similar product or service with a similar name.

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vaksel
Just slap a tm on it and be done with it.

Once your business becomes mega profitable where the cost is peanuts...THEN
you can go and get it registered.

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ALee
The law actually states that you own trademark once you use it. You can put TM
anytime (better when you've filed), but once you receive it, you can use the
(R).

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lionhearted
In the USA, you can use (TM) without any filing as long as no one else has a
claim to your mark. You need to pay and do the filing process for a
_Registered_ Trademark, which carries a bit extra weight and allows you to use
(R). (TM) is probably fine, and in my opinion - more recognizable. The (R) is
good if you're a bit smaller and competitors might consider for gunning for
you/misrepresenting.

For instance, Salesforce.com has the (R) going on: <http://salesforce.com>

Gmail is doing the (TM): <http://mail.google.com>

My rough intuition is that the bigger you are, the better slapping (TM) on
works, even if you're registered. Both (R) and (TM) add credibility, but I
think the (R) works better as deterrent to somewhat savvy competitors, whereas
the (TM) might be more recognized by consumers. Most people know that TM is
trademark, and don't know what (R) means.

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dnball
In the US, in order to recover the full spectrum of damages caused by the
infringement of a federally registered trademark, the infringer has to be on
"notice" that the mark is registered. The "tm" symbol is NOT sufficient notice
and should not be used to designate that the trademark is registered.

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mtkd
You absolutely need to do this.

If cost is an issue - you can file a single application in a couple of classes
in your local country, then broaden it out when funds allow until you cover
the main countries you plan to operate.

At the company I work for at the moment, we filed globally from very early on
(probably cost £100k or something and takes a year or so), but every time we
have an issue with a fraudulent domain name registration or something, we can
recover it in days.

Plus you can capitalise this as an asset, it's not an expense, so there are no
downsides to it.

I can recommend a specialist firm like Williams Powell
(<http://www.williamspowell.com>) in the UK.

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Vandy_Travis
mtkd,

Have you needed to recover a squatted domain? Have you had success with it,
due to your TM? (Although I've never been in the situation,) I've heard it's
tough to recover in either situation -- was your experience better b/c of the
TM?

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DocSavage
I filed our name myself for the bare minimum filing fee ($275 now). I think
it's useful to put your stake in the ground and it increases the liability for
those who violate your trademark. I went the cheap route because I felt if I
could get it approved by the USPTO myself, it's a done deal. In the case of
patents, how you formulate the claims has a major impact on how defendable
your patent will be -- so pays to get some expert eyes.

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phillian
I work as an IP paralegal by day (when not fiendishly working on my own coding
projects at night).

My one recommendation is that if you are cost conscious, send your IP projects
(copyright, patent, trademark) to a boutique or, as we call them, a 'mill'.
Having worked in both boutique and large conglomerate firm settings, I can
attest to the fact boutiques are far more organized and, because their
overhead is so much less, far less expensive.

W/r/t at what point in your development cycle you should register the TM, I
have seen the spectrum of very early to very late filings. While in one
instance a late-stage filing resulted in more similar marks out there (and the
class claims for goods/ services had to be much more limited) I have not yet
seen it be detrimental to getting registered eventually.

On the other hand, small start-ups (both net based and brick-and-mortar)
account for a disproporionate number of the applications we have to let go
abandoned due to client request or nonpayment.

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prawn
If you're a sole developer or small team of friends, don't bother until money
is rolling in. First priority (over lawyers, accountants and whatever else) is
just getting something up and running. Invest too hard early and if you
abandon the project, you've wasted more than necessary.

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quizbiz
What's in a name?

