
Vice Just Released Chilling Footage from Behind Charlottesville’s Battle Lines - virtuabhi
http://www.motherjones.com/media/2017/08/vice-news-just-released-chilling-must-watch-footage-from-behind-charlottesvilles-battle-lines/
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nosuchthing
direct link to the video:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIrcB1sAN8I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIrcB1sAN8I)

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thinkfurther
relevant:

[https://twitter.com/zarzarbinkss/status/897880604309684224](https://twitter.com/zarzarbinkss/status/897880604309684224)

from "Der Fremde in uns" ("The Stranger Within Us") by Arno Gruen.. from one
of the last chapters, crappy translation below the German:

> Mit liebevoller Toleranz und verständnisvollem Entgegenkommen werden wir
> gewalttätige Rechtsradikale und Neo-Nazis nicht besänftigen können. Aus der
> Forschung mit geschändeten und mißhandelten Kindern ist bekannt, daß diese
> auf liebevolles Entgegenkommen mit Haß und Gewalt reagieren. [..]

> Haß und Gewalt sind jedoch auch nicht die geeigneten Gegenmittel. Im Umgang
> mit haßerfüllten Menschen gilt es vor allem, konsequent zu sein. Das heißt:
> Grenzen setzen! Das ist die einzige Sprache, die Menschen ohne innere
> Identität verstehen. Wer ihnen helfen möchte, braucht eine innere
> Authorität. [..]

> Konsequenz trägt zunächst zur Beruhigung derjenigen bei, die Autorität für
> ihr Persönlichkeitsgefüge brauchen. Bei Hitlers Putsch 1923 in München
> geschah das Gegenteil. Als die bayrische Regierung Hitler mit ein paar
> Schüssen Einhalt gebot, fiel dessen Bewegung zusammen. Erst als die
> gerichtlichen Instanzen ihm verständnisvoll als Menschen mit berechtigtem
> "Leid" entgegenkamen, verkehrte sich der Zusammenbruch in einen Neubeginn.

\-----

> With loving tolerance and an understanding approach we won't be able to
> placate violent right-wing extremists and neo-nazis. From the studies with
> abused children we know, that they react with hatred and violence to a
> loving approach. [..]

> But hatred and violence is not the appropriate anti-dote either. When
> dealing with hateful people the most important thing is to be consequent.
> This means: setting boundaries! This is the only language that people
> without an inner identity understand. Who wants to help them needs inner
> authority. [..]

> Being consequent calms those who need authority for their personality
> structure. During Hitlers coup [attempt] 1923 in Munich the opposite
> happened. When the Bavarian government stopped Hitler with a few bullets,
> the movement collapsed. Only when the judicial instances approached him
> understandingly as a human with justified "suffering", the collapse reversed
> into a new beginning.

\-----

I'd say the ACLU may be great with many things, but here, they're way out of
their depth. As is HN. Even journalists begging Trump for a statement, while
well meaning, are way too weak; either you respect the office of President
_or_ the person currently holding it, you can hardly have both. Generally it
would be great if those who don't have the guts and the grounding for the
necessary confrontations would stop trying to stop those who do. Arno Gruen,
Hannah Arendt, et al: don't discard the wisdom they extracted from things that
can simply not be allowed to happen again. Or ignore all I said, but do read
their books. I left out big chunks from the Arno Gruen quote; when he says
being consequent and setting boundaries he really means disarming people, not
wailing on them or anything. I'm too full of spite for that job, but I'd have
the back of anyone who isn't but also isn't a coward. Nothing more, _nothing
less_.

~~~
charred_toast
I wholeheartedly agree.

How about it being a felony to brand yourself part of a party that was an
enemy of the state at one point? Not citizens of other countries, but self-
professed members of a political class or party that caused a war and
casualties. Would the United States permit an ISIS rally, or an Al Qaeda rally
in the middle of a city with a state University? But yet somehow we're
allowing one of the most heinous groups in all of history, one that we were at
war with less than 100 years ago, to represent themselves in public, armed and
screaming for inequality, for murder of people that aren't pure Aryan?

This isn't a freedom of speech issue, this is a what are we going to tolerate
issue. We won't let people walk down the street with an AL Qaeda shirt on, why
should we let people walk down the street with swastikas?

~~~
microwavecamera
This. Violent sedition, undermining the rule of law and promoting the
destruction of Democracy is not a right and defending Democracy is our duty.

~~~
vageli
What is democracy without the freedom of association, which OP was proposing
to undermine by jailing self-professed members of a group. We already have
laws against the actual seditious acts, we don't need laws saying which groups
you may and may not belong to.

~~~
microwavecamera
When that group exists to undermine the rule of law and carries out illegal
acts it actually is against to law to belong to them. It's falls under
conspiracy and aiding and abetting laws. This is why you can't be a member of
ISIS.

