
How convict labour increased inequality - edward
https://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21740468-forcing-prisoners-work-lowered-wages-and-increased-unemployment-how-convict-labour
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tabeth
I recommend the book _The New Jim Crow_ if you'd like to read more about this,
particularly on how it relates to extending pseudo-slavery.

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forgotmysn
I'd suggest the documentary 13th as well.

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jaclaz
If - for a moment - we can abstract from the actual conditions of the
"lodging" and from the quality of the food (that I understand can be terrible
in some US prisons), if we take a single "free" man or woman that is working
the same hours (possibly not full-time because there is not such a job
offering) at minimum wage BUT has to pay rent, utilities and food, plus
medical care, etc., I don't thing that the net (i.e. what remains after having
paid all "basic" bills) is very different from a few cents per hour.

This hypothetical single low-pay worker has not done anything "bad", and there
is no reason why society should "punish" him/her, but I doubt that he/she can
save more than 50 US$ per month.

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c22
I get where you're coming from, but I think it's a little disingenuous to
abstract away living conditions. For all those 'basic' bills your minimum wage
laborer is likely getting a comfortable bed in their own room with only a few
housemates, much better nutrition, a cell phone, private showers, etc. If they
wanted to live in a storage unit, shower at the YMCA, and eat for 2 dollars a
day they likely could save much more.

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marsrover
> If they wanted to live in a storage unit

Which is illegal. And even if it wasn't, it's sad that someone working minimum
wage has to live like a prisoner if they want to save anything significant.

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c22
I totally agree. I'm using a reduction to absurdity to make my point that
prisoners experience abysmal living conditions, not arguing that the state of
minimum wage workers is just.

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squozzer
Regardless of who goes to jail and why, I can only figure on three possible
activities for convicts -

1) Rot in their cells. 2) "Busywork" i.e. stuff that resembles work but has no
value other than occupying convicts' time. 3) Economically useful work.

The economic / social case against option 3 is pretty strong - I remember
analyses of the economic collapse of the USSR blamed convict labor among other
things - except that options 1 and 2 have strong downsides as well. Not just
for convicts, but the COs and prison staff as well.

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John_KZ
There's no reason that the inmates should word for free. Economically useful
work is great, both for the prisoners and society. Maybe take a 50% tax cut
out of minimum wage and give the prisoners the rest of the money. Put them in
a personal account they can use when they're released. It would help them
immensely with rehabilitation.

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ben509
> There's no reason that the inmates should word for free.

If someone is fined, they had to work for that money. So we're taking the
fruits of their labor from them.

And they're in prison in the first place, so they're being denied their
livelihood.

It's almost like we're trying to punish people for crimes they commit!

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mrow84
The punishment that prisoners are subjected to is the deprivation of their
liberty.

As noted by other commenters, prisoners should be paid at market rates. This
is both fair, and avoids market distortions.

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moate
Wait a minute...you're telling me using slave labor is bad? BUT IT'S SO CHEAP!

The idea that we allow FOR PROFIT prisons to "employ" prisoners for less than
minimum wage while they make money is an embarrassment. This is not justice.
This is not "repaying your debt to society". The fact that all criminals get
stigmatized and penalized during and well after their incarceration is
punishment. The use of them as a labor force to perform tasks to create
additional revenue for the prisons is just gross.

And don't get get me started about how this leads to a potential conflict of
interest when you allow the prison companies to hire lobbyists who could lobby
for harsher sentencing in an effort to create more slaves.

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13of40
Would you feel better about it if the prisoners' situations were identical,
but the profits went to the government or to reparations for victims of crime?

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throwawayjava
_> ...or to reparations for victims of crime?_

The courts already have a way of doing this that doesn't involve slavery.

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moate
To that end: if there was a civil suit against someone and you wanted to allow
convicts to work in prison while paying them a fair wage in order to pay off
this debt, that is a logical and even noble choice.

I think the biggest issue everyone seems to have is the idea of below market
wages being paid to the workers.

