
Egypt unveils plans to build new capital east of Cairo - michaelmachine
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-31874886
======
crdoconnor
Well, this is why Burma did the exact same thing (anybody who casts their
memories back a few years might see how this relates to Egypt):

>Naypyitaw, then, is the ultimate insurance against regime change, a
masterpiece of urban planning designed to defeat any putative ‘colour
revolution’ – not by tanks and water cannons, but by geometry and cartography.
320 kilometres to the south, Rangoon, with five million people, is home to
one-tenth the country’s population. But even if that city were brought to a
standstill by public protests and demonstrations, Burma’s military government
– situated happily in the middle of paddy fields in the middle of nowhere –
would remain unaffected.

>

>Of all the possible reasons why the junta chose to relocate their capital to
this isolated, dusty place, this is perhaps the most plausible. And judging by
the pace and scale of construction underway here, the transfer of capital is
intended to be as final and irrevocable as the grip on political power of the
Tatmadaw, the Burmese military.

[http://svaradarajan.blogspot.sg/2007/02/dictatorship-by-
cart...](http://svaradarajan.blogspot.sg/2007/02/dictatorship-by-cartography-
geometry.html)

More bad news:

[http://www.citylab.com/politics/2013/05/how-geography-
influe...](http://www.citylab.com/politics/2013/05/how-geography-influences-
political-corruption/5642/)

~~~
speeder
In Egypt case, the new capital looks to be too close to Cairo to give this
sort of protection.

Brazil changed the capital for that purpose too, and made it masterfully:

Brazil had two previous capitals, the first is in Salvador, the capital was
there for foreign military reasons: The city is a natural fortress, to attack
Salvador by sea you need to navigate inside a bay that has cannons on both
sides of the entrance, and the coast is VERY high (Salvador major landmark is
a elevator, that take people from the coast to the city proper... obviously a
invader army cannot use said elevator, it was deliberately designed to not
support an army).

Later it was moved to Rio de Janeiro, because Rio de Janeiro was the new focus
of economic activity, mostly for agricultural reasons (Brazil southeast is
much more fertile than northeast, also in southeast countryside you could mine
gold).

Currently, São Paulo-Rio Megalopolis has 40 million people (out of 200 million
on the whole country), crammed in 0.5% of the country territory.

And precisely to avoid this, the capital now is Brasília, Brasília is in the
middle of nowhere, to get there by road you cross hundreds and hundreds of
kilometers of roads bordered by forests, tiny villages and farms, the only
actual "reasonable" way to get in or out of Brasília is by plane, in fact when
Brasília was first built, all construction materials that could not be
gathered on-site had to be shipped by plane.

And the city itself was designed in a way that the population cannot take
over, the government buildings are wide apart, there are lots of sniper spots
on said buildings (ie: defenders can snipe attackers easily), and it also
allows tanks to roll around as necessary.

We have unrest here in Brazil, tomorrow, I expect many thousands to take the
streets to try to topple the government (most of the protesters want
impeachment, but many want outright army coup, even civil war is necessary),
but all of those people will be in São Paulo and Rio de Janeiro...

The government will be sitting safely in the capital, the president even
called all ministers to the capital to wait, and the federal government has a
separate defense militia (we have federal police, armed forces, and the
"National Guard", the "National Guard" does not obey the defense minister,
neither the police hieararchy, and is directly under the president, also the
"National Guard" people can easily rally and wait in the capital, their
numbers are only enough to defende the capital, many of their members are
government supporters, and the army suspect that the National Guard was
created precisely to counter the army itself.

~~~
eitally
Regarding Brazil... but on the other hand, Niemeyer's Brasilia ended up being
a place completely pedestrian-unfriendly, full of red dust, and generally
speaking, not a desirable place to live. Sure, lots of federal employees live
there, and take those jobs because they pay well and offer incredible
security, but the wealthy who work in Brasilia typically reside in SP or Rio
and just fly in to Brasilia Mon-Thurs or similar... including the politicians.
They may have succeeded in designing a city that was strategically defensible,
but if everyone who matters is mostly in Rio or SP anyway, ....

~~~
speeder
But isn't that the point?

Make the city unfriendly to masses of pedestrians rushing on your palace to
topple you?

~~~
yongjik
Then the dictator is missing the point.

A successful dictator is someone who can manipulate the masses of pedestrians
to rush on the palace... to cheer the leader (and to stomp on whatever
political enemy the dictator has). A dictator who has to hide from the people
is a poor dictator, and the life expectancy of such a regime tend to be short.

------
kcorbitt
I visited Egypt eight years ago, and the the thing that struck me about modern
Egyptian construction is that there was rebar sticking out of the top of
_everything_. From adobe shacks on the edges of fields to the five-star
hotels, everything looked like it had been built with the expectation of
adding one more floor on later.

Our tour guide told us that this was for tax reasons -- "unfinished"
structures are taxed at a lower rate. A brief search online finds more
evidence for this explanation
([https://vagabondvirginia.wordpress.com/2013/05/06/foto-
fact-...](https://vagabondvirginia.wordpress.com/2013/05/06/foto-fact-whats-
the-deal-with-all-the-unfinished-buildings-in-egypt/)). If that really is the
reason, I can't imagine why the government doesn't shut down the loophole that
is both being exploited so blatantly and also uglifying the modern
construction in the country. Here's to hoping that they fix the regulatory
issue before the practice is applied in their new capitol!

~~~
jest3r-
Our tour guide (roughly 8 years ago as well) told us it was because these
homes are generational - as sons get married they keep building them up -
adding new levels for the new family. So they're always a work in progress.

------
mitchi
I didn't know some countries could still play Sim City. A tunisian friend was
talking to me about the same thing. A new coastal city, big investments coming
in, we make this city a center for investments, arts, technology, finance.
Well... Good luck. It's more likely to end up empty, like a big mall or
expensive appartments no one can afford.

~~~
Apocryphon
You'd expect China or the booming Gulf States to do something like this.
Irrational exuberance.

~~~
stefantalpalaru
They do: [http://www.businessinsider.com/chinas-ghost-cities-
in-2014-2...](http://www.businessinsider.com/chinas-ghost-cities-
in-2014-2014-6?IR=T)

~~~
1timeUse
I apologize for being critical, but that piece is extremely ignorant of what
China is actually aiming to do.

Were the city builds part of economic stimulus? Yes, of course.

However China also has a goal to move 250-350 mm citizens into urban living by
2025.

Here's a 2009 report on the subject:

[http://www.mckinsey.com/insights/urbanization/preparing_for_...](http://www.mckinsey.com/insights/urbanization/preparing_for_urban_billion_in_china)

Without being rude, my link is substantially more weighty / less noisy than
yours.

------
javert
Sounds like a great way for corrupt officials to make huge money on kickbacks.

~~~
saljam
This is precisely the reason many of these huge projects are built. The Gulf
countries have been and are still doing them (KAUST, KAEC, KAFD, huge mosque
expansions, etc.) with a huge number of contracts going to Saudi Oger or the
Binladin group. These contracts are rarely even negotiated properly.

The difference here is that Egypt can hardly afford this so they have to blag
the money off of Saudi Arabia and the UAE.

------
bane
South Korea has been trying to have a go at this (following patterns in the
France, the U.S., Australia, Brazil, etc.) and establish Sejong City.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sejong_City](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sejong_City)

However, the high court ruled that it was illegal to move the capital from
Seoul to Sejong, so most of the government offices will move anyways, but the
capital and some key ministries will stay in Seoul. In effect, South Korea now
has two capitals.

------
616c
You can use Google translate to read Egypt Today's "New Administrative Capital
in the NUmbers" piece, as well as see design pictures for those interest.

[http://www.almasryalyoum.com/news/details/679047](http://www.almasryalyoum.com/news/details/679047)

I believe it has English pages. I still stick to pre-revolution oppo media, so
Egypt Today (Almasry Alyoum) and the Constituion (Ad-dostour) "original", not
the new one that was bought out and sold out.

I hope the Egyptian HN crew can provide better reactions and info, as I am out
of Cairo foo for some time since I have not been there in years.

~~~
mahmoudhossam
Almasry Alyoum and al dostour aren't as good as they used to be, they run the
same crap the others do.

The new kid on the block is mada masr
[http://www.madamasr.com/](http://www.madamasr.com/), much more credible than
the old opposition media these days.

The key is following the writers, the outlets are easier to change than
people.

~~~
616c
I'll check out Mada. I did not mention them, but I have heard of them. I did
not mention them originally as I am like 50-50 sure some old friends in Cairo
write for them, so I would not throw that one out without actually checking
the quality first.

So, I am not such a great friend. I also knew people who wrote for Cairo 360,
which is not such a great news source, but a culture site. I find it too expat
focused, and that for Cairo media is always garbage.

------
rwmj
Also on the BBC (and linked at the bottom of the article): Eight countries
that have moved their capital cities:
[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-31877909](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-31877909)

------
ars
$45 billion for a city of 18 million?

Assuming 5 people per house that's $12 thousand per house.

Even in Egypt I doubt building are so cheap.

~~~
ghobs91
Cairo has a population of 18 million, this new city will be designed to house
5 million.

------
nir
Is there an example of a successful government-planned city anywhere? Best I
can think of is Canberra.

~~~
ballstothewalls
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abuja](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abuja)

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astana](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astana)

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bras%C3%ADlia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bras%C3%ADlia)

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamabad](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamabad)

I think it is more common than you think:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_community](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_community)

~~~
nir
Are these successful though?

