
German military kicks off heavy lift helicopter competition - rbanffy
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-military-helicopter/german-military-kicks-off-heavy-lift-helicopter-competition-source-idUSKBN1E91EN?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=Social
======
hectorr1
The Navy's version of the 53 has a crash rate 3x higher than other
helicopters. Maintenance debt killed two of my classmates.

[https://pilotonline.com/news/military/local/distress-
signal-...](https://pilotonline.com/news/military/local/distress-signal-the-
human-cost-of-the-navy-s-
most/article_060a4418-c412-56c4-b731-da48c25f5d73.html)

~~~
le-mark
_A worn-out fuel line had been rubbing silently against a bundle of old
electrical wires near the front of the cabin – a problem that had gone
undetected for years. The same mechanical defect existed inside every Sea
Dragon in the fleet, though nobody knew it. Over nearly three decades, the
Navy had never required anyone to regularly inspect Sea Dragon wires or fuel
lines for damage._

Calling this particular problem _maintenance debt_ is a bit disingenuous.
PMCS/PMI could have been performed perfectly for decades and not caught this
problem. Peculiar dichotomy in this story; the conflation of design flaw and
lack of spare parts and improper maintenance.

~~~
rbanffy
We shouldn't underestimate what we _don 't_ know about building machines.
Maintenance should accommodate time to check for wear on parts we don't expect
to, to check things that are different from what we expect them to be. The
problem was there for decades and one inspection in one unit over that period
would probably have evidenced the issue and added one more item for the
maintenance checklists.

It's not like the manufacturer can't schedule a full disassembly of a unit 10
years into its lifetime. Car magazines do it.

~~~
geezerjay
> Maintenance should accommodate time to check for wear on parts we don't
> expect to

How much time do you spend performing exhaustive checks for problems that
don't exist?

~~~
rbanffy
Very little. In this case, a single inspection (assuming all units were
affected) over a period of 20 years would have prevented losses that more than
compensate the effort of the added scrutiny.

Also, I like to be the first to know I'm wrong. If I make 100 aircraft and
dedicate one to disassembly for study after a quarter of its estimated life,
I'll be a .75% investment on better understanding my product. If De Havilland
had done that, the stress on the square windows of the Comet would have been
discovered before they started falling from the skies and we'd all be flying
more beautiful planes.

I was shocked when I found out that, in more than 100 flights, nobody
inspected the underside or the leading edges of the shuttle in orbit to check
for damage incurred on lift off. They were pretty sure the only dangerous part
of the flight was the re-entry.

You say a problem does not exist. You may have good reason to think it
doesn't, and, yet, people die because it does.

------
dingaling
Same two contenders as the original competition in 1965!

Significantly updated but still disappointing in showing how little
aerodynamics has progressed in five decades.

~~~
imglorp
Also curious: why no other contenders, especially the Russians? Procurement
politics is heavy stuff.

~~~
leroy_masochist
Not sure it makes sense to buy military aircraft from any given country if
being able to stop them from invading you is your military's primary mission.

~~~
distances
It depends a bit. For example Finland used to use a lot of Soviet weaponry
while (practically if not officially) preparing to deter Soviet attack. Some
upsides:

\- Results in trade deals with a neighboring superpower

\- In case of war, looted enemy armament is familiar and compatible

\- Cheaper due to Soviet attempts to keep sphere of influence (e.g. no direct
NATO compatibility)

~~~
vkou
Another upside:

\- Making it clear that you're not in the 'other guys' camp.

A NATO Finland would have been incredibly threatening to the Soviet Union. A
friendly, non-aligned Finland that just wants to be independent, without
stepping on anyone's toes is a useful buffer state.

After the second world war, Finland had to tread very, very carefully.

------
leroy_masochist
> Some officials favor the CH-47 which they say is combat-proven and cheaper,
> but others say the larger CH-53K would allow growth in future missions.

This implies the 53 is not a combat-proven aircraft....to be clear, the K is
just an improved version of the same aircraft that has been operating for like
3 decades.

Hard to see how the 47 would beat the 53, especially if the Germans are
actually using the aircraft for heavy lift.

------
bolololo1
Why don't they pick H225M Caracal?

~~~
dgregd
This scrap is not flying. French army has them and 75% of them are broken.
They don't repair them because of high maintenance costs.

[https://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-
finance/industrie/aeron...](https://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-
finance/industrie/aeronautique-defense/aeronefs-militaires-il-faut-que-ca-
vole-florence-parly-761224.html)

~~~
bolololo1
So looks like a good choice that Polish government cancelled the deal to buy
them

------
Basketb926
$75-$100 million USD each

