
Ask HN: What do you nerds spend your money on? - QuanSai
As software engineers, on average, we earn a lot more money than a lot of people. Hearing that a fresh college grad is clocking six figures is normal at this point. I&#x27;m only about 5 years into my career, and I make more money than I could ever imagine to. A good portion of the industry might ask me why I&#x27;m not making more, but that subset of professionals probably come from more privileged upbringings.<p>I&#x27;m a Black man, in my late twenties, and I come from one of the poorest areas of New York City. To boot, I don&#x27;t even have a college degree. I&#x27;ve been extremely lucky, and I&#x27;m ridiculously grateful, but I don&#x27;t know how to manage what I&#x27;m making and how I should think about what I earn going forward. My parents and other close relatives can only speculate, and like many others in similar positions, I don&#x27;t know who to trust with guiding my reality. So I&#x27;m curious: what do you do with your money, generally? Buy a lot of video games? Books? Courses? Food? Real estate? Stocks? How do you generally split up your expenses? Are you shocked at all by the money you&#x27;re making? It sounds like a weird problem to have, and it&#x27;s sorta embarrassing to ask, but I&#x27;m starting to feel overwhelmed by my growth.
======
Takizawa
Find a low-fee diversified index fund, such as from Vanguard. Take 20% or a
reasonable portion of your income and place it in this fund with each
paycheck. As they say, pay yourself first. Check out the Bogleheads' Guide to
Investing for further information. That is literally all you need to know. I
have earned the Chartered Financial Analyst designation over a rigorous course
of study. This is literally what I do with my money.

~~~
kolpa
For a young person with a high paying job, 50% may be a reasonable portion of
your income to save. Mandatory expenses will increase if you grow a family,
possibly faster than your income growth.

And consider putting that money to good use -- improving the world, or
rewarding people who are doing good work but not well compensated for it, or
creating opportunities for other not-yet-wealthy people to have a chance at a
good shot in life.

------
DanielBMarkham
Time.

I've made a ton of money -- and spent it. But I never could find anything to
substitute for time.

I live where the cost of living is really low. I work a few months a year and
then take the rest of the year to do what I want. It most always involves
technology -- I'm a nerd like that -- but most importantly it involves _self-
directed learning_. I learn stuff because I think it's important, not because
my job requires it.

Bonus points for being home to watch my kids grow up, getting to know my
neighbors, being able to take vacations for as long as I like. Extra bonus
points for being grounded in a community that has nothing to do with
technology -- as opposed to constantly worrying about whether I was in the
cool kids club or not. I'm not, and that's fine.

It's true. We make a lot of money. Time is the one thing you can't buy. Nobody
ever got to be 80 and complained about spending too much time with their
family, but plenty of folks are sorry they were absent workaholics for so
long.

~~~
fro0116
I actively try to find ways to spend money on things that can save me time on
a variety of things in my life so I can spend more time doing things I enjoy.

Also somewhat related, I tend to not mind spending more money for things I
spend a lot of time with. For instance, a fast computer, a comfortable chair
and mattress, great sounding speakers/headphones/earphones, etc, etc, are all
things I've splurged on, despite being relatively frugal with most other
aspects of my life.

~~~
dplgk
Any recommendations on things you spend money on that save time? Besides the
obvious like maids etc.

~~~
fro0116
I don't think I'm doing anything particularly novel, but here are some
examples:

\- I live in a studio apartment in downtown San Francisco so I can minimize my
commute (currently a 10 minute walk). San Francisco is a notoriously expensive
city. However, most engineers in similar situations as myself (single, with
slightly above market rate salary) can afford to close to work, but many end
up choosing not to because they want to save more money on rent. I too could
probably save a good $1000 more per month if I chose to live somewhere outside
downtown and commute to work, but for me that's a small price to pay to get 5+
hours per week of my life back.

\- Ordering food instead of cooking. I cooked my own meals a lot in college.
It was definitely significantly cheaper than having meals at restaurants, but
it was also ridiculously time consuming, especially when you take into account
things like learning new dishes and grocery shopping. These days I almost
exclusively order food for pickup when I leave work and for delivery on
weekends. I also have a few boxes of Soylent stocked up for when I don't feel
any craving for any particular taste. I also had an Amazon Fresh subscription
for groceries for a while when I was transitioning between my cooking and
ordering phases, so that could be a decent compromise if you still want to
cook but are looking to save time off grocery shopping.

\- Buying your own exercise equipment instead of going to the gym. Having a
treadmill at home not only saved me commute time to and from the gym, it also
had the nice side effect of reducing the activation energy for actually
exercising, so I end up doing it much more often now because it's so easy to
get started. I also don't have to feel self conscious sweating it out in a
room full of other people, and I have my own private shower a few steps away
to refresh myself when done. This one also happens to be a money saver in the
long run because the treadmill pays for itself in gym membership fees saved.

These might not be practical for everybody, but I hope that was at least
helpful as a starting point for brainstorming things that could work for you.

~~~
0x4f3759df
I really the advice:

live in a neighborhood, especially if possible live in a walk-able mixed use
neighborhood close to work, OP might live in NYC so maybe he's got this
covered.

I estimate your quality of life is very high compared the people in most of
America who spend their days stuck in traffic.

Gyms are a nice way to get out of the house and mingle in the neighborhood, so
not sure about the home gym.

I remember reading in the NYT about some very successful actor who they
profiled on a Saturday, what did he do with his time / money? Got a coffee,
walked his dog down to the wharf, planned on reading a book later. Or what
does Andrew Ng like to do on his days off with all his money, according to the
article I read, stay home and read a book. Its funny how after a certain level
people don't have much to buy unless they take up something like yachting or
car racing.

------
pnathan
Yes, the money is crazy. It disappears surprisingly fast.

I am married with a baby; wife doesn't work currently. We own a house. That
all accounts for the largest single block of expenses. So: housing, food,
medical, diapers. Then utilities incl phone and internet. Everything except
medical gets scrutinized to some degree.

Past that:

retirement & stocks. Vanguard pioneered index funds and the Standard Advice
for people who don't want to fuss about it is "max retirement yearly in the
standard vanguard index fund". Standard advice is save 15% of your income.

Misc other costs:

We eat out too much.

I have professional memberships incl the ACM and I donate to political races I
believe deserve support (shoutout to the irreverent bookmarking site).

We have a gym membership - we tacked on a babysitting membership for the kiddo
so we can put him in babysitting when we go. It's pretty expensive but invests
in FutureUs's health, which pays off in ways non-financial and financial. And
it saves on finding a babysitter 3x/wk.

We have a car and hope to move to a place where we can sell it. The car has a
"proc effect" cost of about $1000 once a year beyond the usual car ownership
costs.

A substantial part of my savings for the past decade went towards a down
payment on the house we now live in. We're still adjusting towards that.

I advise donating some towards church or other charity; I strongly believe
that those of us blessed with resources have a duty to share with those not
blessed.

oh yes - hobbies.

I got into oil painting. That's been fun and VERY expensive. I buy nonfiction
books and read them. At $12/book, that's not cheap in volume. Lately I got
interested in kettlebell based workouts, so I got a couple of decent quality
ones and didn't really think too hard about the money. I don't expect them to
wear out or break, so it's a lifetime investment in health.

so on and so forth. Disciplined investing is how you should be thinking about
money.

------
artimaeis
I come from a similar background. No college degree, from a poor rural
southern area. When I first started with a rapidly-increasing paycheck I spent
money on all the tech gadgetry. Now, I view most of the things as unnecessary.

Instead I'm moving towards financial independence - hopefully to the point
where I can retire early. I'm working on maxing out my 401k and IRA
investments yearly. I keep a few months salary saved up so I can weather most
storms without dipping into the retirement funds.

This is something I'm working towards. I'm a long way from meeting my goals of
income:savings ratio. I spend too much on food and various forms of
entertainment (PC games and movies).

My S/O works in the arts and she still finds it insane how much money I make
(not a lot by the HN crowd, I'm sure), so she's the one that inspires me to do
better things with my money.

------
modbait
After alimony and Social Security deductions, I have just enough money left
over to get to work and back each day.

Probably not the answer you were looking for...

(Advice: Make sure your maxing out any 401k match, then dump as much as you
can into a Target Retirement 20XX account. Also, don't get married. Your
future self will thank you.)

~~~
pchristensen
Getting married is fine, if that's what you want to do. But it does complicate
financial planning and decision making.

~~~
himom
You don’t get married unless you’re having kids, waited for relationship
stability of at least 5-10 years and have a solid prenup that also captures
video evidence of willful understanding of each and every one of its terms.

You don’t also do cohabitation without a palnup and similar acknowledgement as
above, due to palimony.

And you never commingle finances except for common house expenses and the
primary residence... keep both of your finances and everything else separate,
for sanity’s sake.

Finally, if you want to avoid divorce rape, alimony, child-support and all
that, then don’t get divorced in a community property state.

------
thecrumb
Best advice I got when starting out was an older colleague who encouraged me
to invest early and often. The sooner you start saving the longer time you
have for growth. Invest as much as you can afford to in 401k (see if you
company has matching).

~~~
Bodell
I would only add the caveat that you should ONLY invest in 401K IF you company
is matching. Otherwise look into a vanguard fund or something on the like. I
think the automatic opting in on 401k is of course better than no investing,
but may not be the best course of action in a company that does not match. The
last company I worked for, made the decision of if, and how much it matched at
the end of each year. During my 2 years there they never matched a single
cent. My money would have been better somewhere else, as well as more ethical
than handing it to a major bank to auto invest in it's own subsidiaries.

~~~
pm90
> I would only add the caveat that you should ONLY invest in 401K IF you
> company is matching.

I think this is NOT good advice. Reasons:

* the more you invest in your 401(k), you reduce your tax bracket

* you can invest more money since its pre-tax. The caveat being here that you will be taxed when you withdraw. Usually its a worthy tradeoff

* you still have the option of directing your money in Vanguard or Vanguard like ETF's since you are in control of where your 401(k) money goes

IANAL so let me know if what I said is factually incorrect.

~~~
dragonwriter
> the more you invest in your 401(k), you reduce your tax bracket

Reducing your tax bracket isn't meaningful separately from the next item; the
idea that it is comes from a misunderstanding of progressive taxation.

> you can invest more money since its pre-tax. The caveat being here that you
> will be taxed when you withdraw. Usually its a worthy tradeoff

For most people, yes (probably, though obviously this depends on future tax
policy and other future events), but this is not universally the case.

> you still have the option of directing your money in Vanguard or Vanguard
> like ETF's since you are in control of where your 401(k) money goes

Depends on who your employer has managing the 401k and what they offer. This
varies a lot.

~~~
bradlys
Regardless, you should always max out 401k and IRA every year. Because you
only get taxed with those once, it's better. Investing your after tax income
into something that will get taxed /again/ is not optimal compared to 401k and
IRA.

~~~
brianpgordon
It may be better in some cases to hold onto the cash rather than locking it up
in a retirement account in order to build up a cash buffer and avoid the
penalty for an early withdrawal in case of emergency expenses.

~~~
bradlys
Sure, but I'm not assuming such weird scenarios.

You're supposed to have your emergency fund completely built up _before_ you
save for retirement.

------
alhirzel
[http://mrmoneymustache.com/](http://mrmoneymustache.com/)

------
JohnJamesRambo
I spend all my extra income investing in cryptocurrency. But I don't make a
lot of money at my job like you guys, I'm a cancer researcher, not a
programmer. I live very simply, drive an old (1996) used car I like, and don't
buy a lot of extravagances. I need cryptocurrency to succeed so I can retire
someday or be able to afford having a family. My crypto portfolio is currently
worth more than I make in a year and has given me great hope for the future.
That hope and potential freedom has outweighed any of the stupid things I used
to spend my money on.

~~~
NickM
Have you considered investing in assets that are less speculative and risky
than cryptocurrency? I would strongly recommend you think about diversifying
your portfolio so that you don't lose everything if it turns out we're in a
crypto bubble and it all comes crashing down.

------
gshubert17
I tried to save 20% of my gross pay: 10% into tax-advantaged vehicles (like a
company 401-K or IRA); and 10% into regular taxable accounts. For the latter I
opened a brokerage account and set up a direct deposit to it from my paycheck.
Keep emergency savings in a money market fund. Then buy shares of an index
fund (or two).

I started (back in the 1980s) with a 2-3% savings rate at first. As I found
ways to economize, I could save more. And as I got raises, I tried to save
most of each raise. After about 4-5 years, I was up to 20%.

The taxable part could be used for large expenses, like a car or down payment
on a house. The tax-advantaged savings accumulated until I retired in 2016.

EDIT: During my working years, besides the usual family expenses, I bought
books, lectures from the Great Courses, and a second master's degree. Now I
have more time to make use of all of these.

------
askafriend
I try to save as much of it as possible and invest it aggressively into things
I find interesting (mostly in the public/private markets). Making money is fun
but investing and growing it is even more fun for me since I don't need much
money to live day-to-day. Investing also helps me develop a worldview and
check it against reality which is a really cool feedback loop. Most of my
strategies are incredibly simple and involve a broad conviction of where the
world is going rather than digging into the super nitty gritty details of
every quarterly report - I always invest long-term and I never ever day trade.
In fact, I've never held an investment shorter than 1.5 years or so. Needless
to say, I've done really really well in the bull market of the past couple of
years.

Most of my day to day expenses are probably food and rent as is common in San
Francisco. I also buy nicer clothes, computers/gadgets or spend a little more
on hobbies or travel (subsidized through credit card points churning, which is
another fun game if you can afford to play it). But overall I try not to cross
over into irrational, needless spending. I mostly have everything I could ever
want in the world. Most of my problems are now internal and existential, which
is a blessing (and a curse).

------
smt88
Buying yourself time is generally considered a great use of money, and I've
seen research to back that up. That might mean using a home-cleaning service
or choosing to work fewer days a year, as examples. I hate cooking, so I spend
some of my extra income on a meal prep service.

If you have cash beyond your rainy-day fund, you should just put it into some
dumb ETFs, as Warren Buffett recommends[1]. Active investments are mostly
gambling, but if you love the lifestyle involved in that gambling (as many of
us entrepreneurs do) then even losing money might still lead to a fulfilling
life.

You might also consider working toward saving enough that you can retire and
live off the interest. People refer to this as financial independence and
there are lots of communities[2] and tools to help people achieve it without
inheriting wealth or betting on startups/stocks/etc.

1\. [https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/02/26/warren-buffett-
jus...](https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/02/26/warren-buffett-just-
revealed-the-best-investment-m.aspx)

2\.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/](https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/)

~~~
rconti
This is a good point. When we bought a house I immediately got gardener for
twice a month because I hate yard work and it was easier than buying a lawn
mower and later deciding I don't want to deal with it.

We also now have a housekeeper come to clean house once a month, which is SO
nice because she does it better and (frankly, sadly) more often than we ever
managed to on our own. I feel like a failed adult not being able to clean up
after myself, but there's too much else to do in life, and we don't even have
kids. All in all, that's $2500 really well spent considering what a tiny
fraction it is of our dual income.

------
felixcatus
For a very long time I was saving a lot, even over 50% of every paycheck. I
was renting a room, even if I could easily rent whole flat. I was spending my
money mostly on food, clothes and sometimes I bought electronic gadgets. I
didn't even had a driving licence, cause I thought owning the car is an
unnecessary expense.

Now I own used BMW, so I spend a piece of money on fuel and casual fixes. I
also spend greater amount of money on branded clothes. I buy a lot of books,
which I am currently addicted to. I'm 32 single guy with decent salary, but I
still rent a room, instead of a flat. I still buy electronic gadgets and I pay
more for them, than before. I don't cook, so I either eat outside or order
catering for whole day. I don't intend to invest my money. I just want to live
my life, learn science, read books, play with my cat, meet with friends and
develop my pet projects. I use time as currency, so I'd rather pay someone to
clean my flat or fix the car, even if I could easily do it by myself. There
are months, when I can spend more than I earned, but usually I can save even
%40 of my paycheck. And BTW I'd rather call myself a geek, than nerd. But it
was nice, to share my thoughts ;)

------
cimmanom
You're not alone. Money management is taught to depressingly few people in
this country. If you're new to having significant amounts of disposable income
(congratulations!), here are my thoughts:

1) Take a little time and write down what your values are. There are lots of
things you could do with money. You could invest it to retire early. You could
invest it in yourself in any number of ways (education, exercise, therapy,
whatever is important to you). You could use it to provide opportunity to
others. You could spend it on hookers and blow. All sorts of things. Decide
which ones are most important to you and what proportion of your disposable
income you want to allocate to each.

2) Make a budget. Start with the things you really _need_. How much do you
need every month for housing and utilities? How much for food? How much do you
need to spend on clothing in an average year just to keep yourself warm and
dress appropriately for your workplace? On health insurance? How much do you
need to set aside in case your car breaks down or you break a bone and need
bunch of medical care?

3) Add a buffer to your budget for the unexpected (and the things you forgot
when making the initial budget - you can update the budget again next year);
and another smaller buffer to indulge yourself a little (a beer with friends
after work once a week) but not a lot (table service at a schmancy nightclub
every Friday and Saturday). Stick to your budget.

4) Look at what's left over. Save up until you have a rainy day fund that can
cover at least 3 months' worth of expenses in case of unemployment.

5) While you're saving this rainy day fund, read up a bit on money management
and about various investment vehicles. Early retirement websites are a great
resource for this. I'd advise against treating their recommendations as
gospel; but they typically will introduce you to a lot of important concepts
and have references to tons of great learning resources.

6) Once you have your rainy day fund, your disposable income is available to
allocate to the various purposes you defined in your list of values.

You have an advantage here in that you already know how to live on relatively
little, and you know the difference between needs and wants. That allows you
to focus on spending your money in ways that reflect what you truly value,
rather than just on whatever new shiny you decide you "need" just because you
_want_ it.

------
dsfyu404ed
Max out your 401k contributions. Automate saving as much as possible and don't
touch it. I second the advice about the index fund. Save everything you don't
need for monthly expenses.

Take advantage of any tuition reimbursement your company offers and go to
college (it sucks but you need that overpriced piece of paper).

Don't scale your lifestyle with your income. As a result of your upbringing
don't see eating out, expensive electronics, a fancy car, new furniture in
your apartment, hipster beer, fancy close etc. as something you do by default.
Keeping your lifestyle minimal and squirreling all your money away will be
easier for you than for your "higher class" coworkers.

If it hasn't been said before, don't loan people money you expect them to pay
back. It's easier for people to justify stiffing you when they know you make X
and they make Y. If you do help you family out do it as a gift, not a loan.
It's tempting to help pull your family up with you but you can't do it all at
once.

Avoid short term debt. Yes you can optimize credit cards and game the rewards,
etc but that's a whole additional thing to track and manage and not something
you should be taking on until you're more experienced with your money flow
situation. You've got enough money that you don't need to buy stuff on credit
anyway.

I'm serious when I say to save (like, in a 401k or index fund, not in a
savings account or somewhere you can see and easily access/spend) everything
you don't need for expenses less maybe a grand or so a month.

Also, as you get to know the people in the office I think you're likely to
find that people in your position are far rarer than you think and that many*
of them are women __.

 _relative to tech in general

_ *My observation is that the gender diversity hiring initiatives and intern
pipelines (which target women) tend to catch a more economically diverse pool
of people than tech hiring in general.

------
abarrettjo
I also highly recommend a good financial planner. Not only can they help you
with the complicated financial stuff (all the work you might typically expect
from a financial planner), they also are experienced at helping you figure out
what you care about (and therefore how you should allocate your resources). I
find it to be almost like 'financial counseling'.

There was a NYTimes article recently that is sortof on the topic:
[https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/20/smarter-living/why-you-
sh...](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/20/smarter-living/why-you-should-hire-
a-financial-planner.html)

A good financial planner should be certified (have their CFP), and will offer
your first visit completely for free.

------
ssivark
In addition to some of the other suggestions in this thread, invest in the
people you care about, particularly family and friends. Invest not just money,
but also share time and expertise. Invest in their education/training, help
them towards better employment (maybe help them start a business), help them
make progress towards their goals. Help them "expand the pie" and make them
understand that you want them to pay it forward. It's easy to forget this when
using an individualistic lens, but friends and family could be your best
safety net in tough times -- this is probably the only investment that is also
invested in your growth and well-being. Done well for a couple of generations,
this is often what seeds "privilege".

------
deaps
Honestly, save / invest as much as you possibly can.

I have a wife and children, we have everything we need, most things that we
want, nothing spectacular (sensible, yet very nice, vehicles, bicycles, home
with interior upgrades, extra amenities, etc) - our taste is fairly plain. We
take a vacation with family every year to save money there.

I guess the point is, live comfortably, get the extra stuff, sensibly, but
save. Because you just never know.

------
dougmwne
Calculate the number of years you'd need to work at your current savings rate
before you can "retire early" or be financially independent. The following
formula is something I adopted from finance blogs and is just an enlightening
simplification.

E/S * 25 = Y

Where: E: Your yearly expenses.

S: Your yearly after tax savings.

Y: The number of additional years you need to work

Implications: -If you spend and save an equal amount you have about 25 years
of work to go.

-If you save many multiples of what you spend, you may have just a few more years of work left before you are never obligated to work again.

-If you save just a fraction of what you spend, then early retirement is not looking so good.

-Every dollar per year you spend in early retirement will need at least 25 dollars backing it up in your nest egg.

-Spending more money means you are obligated to work a hell of a lot harder and longer. (Which is not always an option in bubbly, ageist fields like tech)

Assumptions: -Expenses and Savings stay constant throughout your life.

-You put your money into an index fund that nets 7%, 3% of which goes to keeping up with inflation, 4% of which is your safe withdrawal rate (which is also where the constant, 25, comes from).

-Your current bank balance is 0.

------
eli_gottlieb
* Pay off literally all debts.

* Make sure you're contributing as much as gets matched to your 401k if you have one.

* Open a Roth IRA and contribute the max at $5500/year.

* 10% of income to good causes and/or fighting the power. For example, I'm a DSA member and an ACLU monthly donor.

* If you're not over 20-30% of your income yet, start throwing stuff in more Vanguard index funds at the full tax rates.

------
AnIdiotOnTheNet
I wouldn't worry too much about what you do with your money, honestly. Sure,
get some financials going, a 401k, a roth, some index or mutual funds,
whatever, but don't waste a lot of mental energy worrying if you're extracting
the maximum value from it. Make it something auto-deducted that you don't even
think about. Be surprised at your quarterly statements when you bother to look
at them. After all, what's the point in having all this dosh if all you do is
worry about crap all the time?

In the meantime, find out what you really want from life. I find a lot of
people spend money on a bunch of junk that they not only don't need, but don't
even really want. They just thought it would make them happy, or felt the need
to keep up with their peers, or imagined some unlikely future scenario where
they'd need it. Spend money on what you really want to spend money on,
whatever brings you joy and satisfaction, and let the other stuff slide.

------
mollusc
Plan so you can live comfortably, then with the excess, fund people doing
things you consider important, if they're open to contributions. Sponsor
schools and community stuff.

Accumulation of wealth beyond the reasonable needs of yourself and dependents
is pointless.

Full disclosure I don't have the income for this yet so I can't offer
experience just opinion.

~~~
civilian
But what about early retirement?

I don't want to work until I'm 65. I'd rather work hard now, and be aggressive
or "greedy" about my salary, so that I can retire earlier and fund things for
my future family. That's the point of accumulation of wealth.

~~~
bhandziuk
I think you need to be realistic about what "early retirement" means. To a lot
of people this just means spending their time not at a desk job. Instead they
spend their time making money (maybe less money but still some) in different
ways. Ways they find more pleasurable. If that's the case you don't need to
save all the money you'll ever need for the rest of your life by the time
you're 50 because you're not spending your remaining 50 years doing literally
nothing.

------
chippy
I don't spend it on anything different. I save the money.

------
squozzer
1) Savings, but not too much (~10%.) 2) Guitars. More of a noodler than a
player, started cheap (Ibanez) but now have my first Gibbie (an LP Studio,
still allergic to $2000+ guitars.) 3) Home Improvements. I had a new driveway
and garage floor poured recently so my car lift would stay put. Looking to
remodel my master bath this year or next. 4) Cars. Have a derelict GTO and an
older Blazer along with my daily driver. 5) Donations. About $1000 / year,
most of it donated around the end of the year.

None of these are particulary sound investments except #1. Here are some other
ways I plan to spend my money -

1) Skills. Both computer and non-computer. 2) Travel. My tastes here are
rather pedestrian - beaches, mountains, Western Europe.

------
rconti
I max out my 401k, I max out ESPP and put that into savings once they hit the
qualifying disposition mark, (ditto with RSUs), I have a stupid silicon valley
mortgage, I like fast cars, and I like to travel. But of course, there's more
money for travel than time, which is the biggest problem.

I don't really have other expensive 'hobbies'. I don't eat out much, my wine
clubs are very reasonable/modest ones, I'm not so much into motorcycles
anymore, my carbon road bicycle is 10 years old, etc etc. I don't regularly
buy new computers/electronics/etc, but when I do I buy something really nice
and keep it for a decade. Not a gamer, not hugely into A/V stuff, etc.

------
Kilonzus
I'm still a student so I don't have too much expendable income to be putting
it into things that I want to but I do like to invest in the stock market.
I've been able to maintain ~30% roi (beginners luck?) which I then use to
travel. But as a black man too, I believe in investing back into the
community. Especially programs you wish you had when you were younger. One of
my goals is to go to local schools and pay some of the children's school lunch
debts. Its ultimately your choice but look around see which ideas you like and
implement them. Be smart with it too. And kudos for the journey you've went
through, not enough of us in that field.

------
redthrow
There's an Economist article about how the spending habits of the rich people
have shifted over time in the US.

Today, they spend less money (in relative terms) on fancy cars and watches,
and more money on things that are less visible but more (what they consider)
valuable: kids' education, hiring private chefs and maids (because they tend
to be time-strapped), luxury gym membership with personal trainer, etc.

[https://www.economist.com/news/books-and-
arts/21725751-new-b...](https://www.economist.com/news/books-and-
arts/21725751-new-book-looks-how-expenditure-has-changed-among-americas-
affluent-modern-american)

------
dmcy22
I'd like to suggest donating money to causes/organizations you believe in,
whether that's locally, in the US, or abroad. If you have excess, why not use
a bit of that to help someone else? (Plus, it's often tax deductible.)

------
pm90
You want to keep a few months living expenses away in a Rainy day fund. I
actually kept much more and it helped me 2 times greatly:

* I was laid off from my first job; I had more than enough saved to ride out the couple of months I spent searching for a job. It was actually a nice vacation.

* I'm currently moving to SF for a new job. They do pay for relo, signing bonus etc. but you get the cash only after you start working. You need that liquidity to pay for moving, security deposit/rent etc.

After the rainy day fund, follow the great advice others have said and invest
aggressively in ETF's with very low admin costs. I'm personally a huge fan of
Vanguard Admiral Shares.

------
deterus
I follow a pretty aggressive saving pattern for early retirement, but after
that I really enjoy spending money on hobbies and travel. (Shout out the
reddit community of FIRE) Travel helps me avoid burnout on the job, and expand
my worldview. Hobby wise I really enjoy building mechanical keyboards. Its a
really close knit hobbyist community. Be careful though the really high end
stuff can cost quite a bit of money. But yeah overall, you need to save and be
responsible, but at the same time you can't take it with you. Life is meant to
be enjoyed, and money opens up some really unique and special experiences for
you.

~~~
kick_in_the_dor
I also like to travel as often as I can. What do you do to maximize your
travel time and "expand your worldview"?

------
DoreenMichele
The article and comments here may be helpful to you:

How and Why Athletes Go Broke (2009)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16341848](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16341848)

------
markvdb
I tell myself I have just a lower middle class wage to spend, even if it is a
bit more. I like to think of my thrifty spending as a way to keep in touch
with the reality of people of more humble means.

What you earn more than a cashier, the Moroccan cleaning lady or the Mexican
strawberry picker is your lucky lottery ticket. They can survive without. You
too can probably.

Investing the surplus is a simple technical question. Read up on the subject.

Donate some of the (returns on the) surplus. Not because you have to. Because
it will make you happy.

------
ncallaway
While I think the community at r/personalfinance tends to overdo it sometimes,
I find their wiki of "how to handle $" to be extremely helpful.

[https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/wiki/commontopics](https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/wiki/commontopics).

That helped me figure out what some of my options were for managing money
beyond what I was aware of (which was basically just "savings account" or
spend it).

------
gradschool
It may seem like a lot of money if it's more than you've ever had before, but
in the scheme of things it's not a real lot. I've heard loads of horror
stories about athletes actors and lottery winners ending up broke because they
underestimate how easy it is to use up. If I were in your position I'd live
modestly, avoid crazy investment schemes, and manage my money like a normal
person. (P.S. I'm a white guy from a middle class background.)

------
himom
\- food (i cook and frequent farmers markets) $200/mo

\- gas $50/mo

\- car repairs $100/mo

\- personal products $25/mo

\- old-school unlimited LTE plan $135/mo

\- paid off iPhone 6S $0/month

\- paid off MBP A1278 $0/month

\- paid off 85 VW Westfalia $0/month

\- not paying rent, hoa or a mortgage priceless

\- Spotify $10/mo

\- Netflix $14/mo

\- VPN $8/mo

\- EFF $20/mo

\- ACLU $20/mo

\- Costco Executive $10/mo

\- (if I flew more) Priority Pass

\- sbux $20/mo

\- RO water subscription $1/mo

\- upscale gym w towels, private showers and not crowded $60/mo

\- health insurance $350/mo

All-in, my total expenses are conservatively no more than $20k/yr USD.

Everything else goes to revenue generating assets.

------
TheGrassyKnoll
They say 90% of millionaires make it from real estate. Even though real estate
is high right now, you've gotta save and wait for opportunity.

------
thatswrong0
Index funds, cryptocurrency, really good sushi, and synthesizers and other
music software I don't really need. That's pretty much it.

------
cirgue
I live like a dirtbag and most of the money I spend goes to whitewater
kayaking and plane tickets. I save/invest most of my income.

------
psyc
I spend the most on buying free time. If I didn’t value my free time so much,
I would try to buy income generating assets.

------
amacbride
I will say that my best investment by far has been real estate, followed by
typical 401k index funds. (Pre-IPO stock options have been hit or miss.)

The best advice I can give is to live below your means; it doesn't mean you
have to deny yourself everything, but going out 5x/week vs 2x/week really does
add up over the years.

------
uxp100
I am incredibly shocked by how much money I am making, more than I expected
when growing up, obviously, but more than I expected even when entering the
industry.

I think everybody else is giving good advice, so here's something I always
heard was maybe a bad idea, but so far I don't regret: Friends and family
hitting me up for money. I've given a few people loans, one very large (40K,
cancer debt). Hasn't been a problem, one wasn't paid back, and that's OK. When
you loan a friend 1K because he's homeless, mainly you're just glad he's not
homeless anymore, I would have just given him it, but he preferred a loan. His
situation is still precarious, years later. But I guess you have to make that
judgement for yourself, I'm not having acquaintances ask me for money for a
new TV or something.

I target giving 10% of my income to charity each year.
[https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/](https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/) is a site
that advocates for this. I usually fall short just from forgetfulness.

I also got the standard yuppie hobby of photography (and vintage lenses,
though the cheaper ones).

------
gonesilent
Get your IRA funding started asap. For my spending since 1998 I've spent over
100k on amazon. Paid off my land. Rest Goes to tools and toys. I try and save
15% of every check to my savings account aka betterment.com. also have year
supply of canned food and shotgun ammo.

------
mikekij
"To boot, I don't even have a college degree. I've been extremely lucky, and
I'm ridiculously grateful..."

Just want to commend you on your attitude toward your success. I firmly
believe that being thankful for, and conscious of your 'luck' begets more
luck!

------
lolc
I work part-time and I don't spend all that much. I'm living with people who
earn enough to not have any financial worries. We're currently paying down the
mortgage but are looking into donating or lending to other projects who have a
hard time getting funds.

------
abfan1127
I save 15% for retirement, I save 10% for college/trade school/other for my 3
kids.

I race in the 24 Hours of Lemons
([http://waitwhat.racing](http://waitwhat.racing)). We also like to ride quads
and dirtbikes and camp to do so.

------
CryoLogic
My suggestion for anyone who wants to get some returns without a lot of work
or risk: [https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Three-
fund_portfolio](https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Three-fund_portfolio)

------
mysterydip
Before I was married, I did racing and video games. Now it's more taking care
of my family and saving.

One of the most rewarding things was giving to charity. Find a cause you're
passionate about and see what donating some time or money to it does for them
and you.

------
xt00
Faster and faster SSD's.. thats what I spend my money on.. :-)
[https://www.anandtech.com/tag/ssd](https://www.anandtech.com/tag/ssd) I just
hit refresh on that webpage all the time..

------
nylin93
After all is said and done with my savings and retirement I spend the leftover
on my hobby of fishing.

So, if you have any money leftover you should maybe look into picking up a
hobby. If you don't want to spend anymore then the default is to save it.

------
sp332
It's kind of a cliche at this point, but "experiences" are a good thing to
spend money on. Travel, hike, try different or downright weird food, dress up
and go to comic con and let people take pictures with you.

------
austinshea
It’s not unreasonable to spend money on a financial planner.

It helped me put an appropriate amount of money into a 401k, and other
investment accounts, while having a budget for what I can confidently spend on
myself.

~~~
ajkjk
I've done, I think, a perfectly responsible job of investing money after
reading a few articles online. What do you get from paying a planner?

~~~
modbait
If nothing else, it's a check on your thinking. A good one will also look at
things from more exotic angles. For example, if you have a lot of stock from
an employer, how can you hedge that risk. As life proceeds, finances can get
very strange indeed.

------
code_chimp
Floppy disks, tentacle pr0n, and Ramen

But seriously get a spouse and one or more offspring and the extra money ends
up getting invested in family events, college savings, kids' activity
fees/gear, etc.

------
audleman
Invest as much of your money as you can. I'm investing around 30-40% per year
(no family, no kids but I do have a mortgage). At my rate the absolute outer
limit of when I'll have to work is 55, but I could easily retire by 50. I
don't know if that sounds like a long ways off to you, or that you'll be old
at that point, but it's not. I might buy a sailboat at that point and travel
the world for a decade.

Being able to see that in the near future I am free of the obligation to work
is incredible. I feel this great expansiveness when I think about it, which my
non-tech friends absolutely do not have. I recommend using your money to buy
your freedom instead of more things.

------
bkuehl
Now that I own a home, a whole bunch of money into that like new garage,yard
landscaping, furniture, etc.

Oh, and I'm also spending way too much money on my husband's Eve Online
gameplay.

------
mikekij
As far as investments go, \- Max out 401k \- Max out IRA (if possible) \- Of
your remaining investible income: \- 66% in a Vanguard Index Fund \- 33% in a
rental property or two

Just a suggestion.

------
RhysU
The usual things others stated, but add to that adequate disability and life
insurance.

------
pattisapu
Mechanical keyboards. (Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.)

------
godelmachine
I am planning to buy a FPGA board in my next appraisal.

------
rajacombinator
Failed business and investment opportunities! ;)

------
free_thr0w
i buy drugs, expensive clothes, investments, eat out a lot. also in my
twenties and don’t really know what to do either.

------
bradlys
I don't know how much you make or where you're living. It could be you're one
of the many on HN that is making over $300k/yr with just a few years of
experience. That said, I'm 27. About 5 years in now as well. I live in the bay
area and work at a startup. I'm definitely underpaid by a sizable amount.
Anyone at google or fb is making more than me.

I think the first things I used to buy were furnishings, cooking equipment,
computer upgrades, a tv, a bicycle, a newer car, a motorcycle, tools, a fitted
suit, and so on... Just whatever interested me. Spending $2-3,000/month on
"non-essentials" feels like it happens every other month. It's a lot but it
happens because I have a lot of interests. I ride the bicycle to work and so
that made sense to buy. (I also sometimes enjoy bicycling) I watch movies and
shows on the TV. I play demanding PC games. I like to cook all kinds of stuff.
I like having a mattress that isn't 25 years old and doesn't hurt my back. My
last car was totaled and I'd been borrowing cars for a year. So I decided to
buy a BMW 135is because I wanted one for so long and I like sporty convertible
cars. I bought a motorcycle because I've wanted one for a decade. I bought
tools because I work on _everything_ by myself. I bought suits because it's
one of the few things I look good in.

I spend the money on what I like to do. Money is definitely my most limited
resource these days because I happen to like a lot of things and those things
be expensive. I like my car but I'd sure love to have a GT3RS. I like my
motorcycle but a S1000RR or R1M would sure be more exciting. I can take decent
photos with my camera but the tech is a 8 years old and the noise in low light
is terrible. I'd love a new L lens or a A7Riii to take some better low light
photos or better portraits or nice strobes to get better lighting.

What I'm saying is that my demands seem to be a lot larger than yours, I
guess. Be glad yours isn't and keep it that way. Save as much as you can for
as long as you can. It's definitely better to be satiated than starving. I
also don't live a "FIRE" lifestyle because that's not my goal. I want to live
a bit while I'm young. I want to be able to drive fast and ride motorcycles
and do all the things before I feel like I don't have the option to anymore.
(And depending on your future spouse and future standard of living, this could
be a real issue!)

I still max out my 401k and IRA every year. I still save more on top of that
because it's not enough to meet retirement goals. I try to save 20-25% of my
pre-tax income every year. 401k+IRA isn't enough to meet that so I have to
save a decent amount of post-tax money. I typically invest in vanguard index
funds. Pretty straight forward. You can use their target retirement funds to
just get started.

If I was making over $500k/yr, I think that's when I'd start to feel like I
made a lot of money. But, where I live, even that doesn't feel like a lot
because that's the level of income that's just barely enough to buy a updated
house where I live.

A long time ago, $100k/yr sounded like a lot. I grew up in a _very_ rural area
with _very_ low incomes. But, now, it sounds like pennies because houses where
I am are regularly $2,000,000+ and they're like 1500sqft on a 4500sqft lot
with 1930-50's construction.

------
sp527
For context: 27 and also a software engineer.

If you do invest (and it's a good idea), make sure to account for liquidity
requirements.

For example, most people don't realize that if a substantial portion of their
wealth has equity exposure and the market experiences a correction, their
money is effectively illiquid (because selling at or near the trough would be
foolish). You don't want to be caught in this situation while simultaneously
having to pay for a wedding/car/home downpayment/initialization capital for a
business.

So, think ahead about your anticipated liquidity requirements when you decide
how you're going to invest. And always assume you have no idea what the market
is going to do.

By the way, the correlation between most asset classes and the broader market
skyrockets during corrections. In other words, most asset classes you might
have exposure to will also dip during a downturn. Keep this in mind when
deciding how to structure your allocations.

Personally, my purchases fall into a handful of categories:

\- Inexpensive, non-recurring (or infrequent): books, classes/meetups,
clothes, one-off trips, etc

\- Inexpensive, recurring: subscriptions (Netflix, Spotify, HBOGo, Amazon
Prime), coffee, the marginal cost of higher quality food and usually pre-
prepared, vitamins, cleaning service, and some other things that improve
wellbeing or buy back my time

\- Expensive, recurring: rent

\- Expensive, non-recurring: trips/vacations

I generally don't worry too much about the 'Inexpensive' categories because
they're typically not worth adjusting. If you ever do a comprehensive
financial self-assessment, you'll see that being pennywise is a losing game
just based on the numbers and therefore not even worth the stress/extra
effort. Just don't be unreasonably penny foolish and you're fine. In my case,
I don't drink and I don't really like expensive meals, so I save a lot of
money right there.

I try to keep my rent as low as possible. That's the easiest thing to
optimize. Having a smaller space is actually useful as it forces you to be
outside more often.

I almost never balk at spending on experiences or trips; in fact, I consider
those the best expenditures by far.

I do not (and probably will not for the foreseeable future) have a car, a
mortgage, or a wedding (not planning to get married any time soon; have
decided it's worth delaying in my case).

Two things in the next 3-5 years I might need money for: initialization
capital for a business (if a side hustle matures) and backpacking/traveling
expenses. I'm hoping to go off for at least 3-6 months at some point in the
next 2-3 years.

Savings and investment rate is above $50K per year. I usually go 40% in the
market and 60% high yield savings + bonds. That's on the low side because I
anticipate needing cash on hand in the next 3-5 years.

------
hprotagonist
insurance, diapers, food, rent, bicycle parts, 529, and mutual funds.

------
KerrickStaley
S&P 500 shares

------
synaesthesisx
Collecting Teslas

------
jacobush
Put 5% of your savings into something high risk, like Monero. Then forget
about it for 10 years.

