
Zuckerberg, Nadella and Other Executives Ask Senate to Restrain NSA Spying - T-A
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-05/zuckerberg-nadella-ask-senate-to-restrain-nsa-spying.html
======
spankalee
Because the headline might be misleading by leaving this out, it's not just
Zuckerberg and Nadella.

The full list:

    
    
      Tim Armstrong, AOL
      Tim Cook, Apple
      Drew Houston, Dropbox
      Mark Zuckerberg, Facebook
      Larry Page, Google
      Jeff Weiner, LinkedIn
      Dick Costolo, Twitter
      Satya Nadella, Microsoft
      Marissa Mayer, Yahoo!

~~~
tlrobinson
Almost identical to the list of PRISM companies.

~~~
jmgrosen
I don't think that's a coincidence -- they didn't want to participate, and now
that it's out there, it's hurting their bottom line.

~~~
yuhong
I don't think these companies even know they were helping it.

~~~
adventured
"A lawyer representing the National Security Agency at a Wednesday hearing
revealed tech companies were fully aware of the agency’s widespread Internet
surveillance programs, contradicting outraged statements that have echoed
across Silicon Valley since Edward Snowden’s first leaks came to light."

[http://dailycaller.com/2014/03/20/nsa-reveals-silicon-
valley...](http://dailycaller.com/2014/03/20/nsa-reveals-silicon-valley-knew-
about-mass-internet-spying/)

------
abraxasz
"None of the executives who signed the letter are scheduled to appear at
today’s Senate hearing. Witnesses on the agenda include Deputy U.S. Attorney
General James Cole, NSA Deputy Director Richard Ledgett and FBI Deputy
Director Mark Giuliano."

The lineup they have is hilarious. It probably went something like:

\- [senate] James, do you think we should end mass surveillance

\- [Cole] No

\- [senate] Dick, whaddya think?

\- [Ledgett] Nope, it's allright

\- [senate] Ok, Mark?

\- [Giuliano] Meh, nah, I think we're fine

\- [senate] Well then, after extensive consultation with all interested
parties, blablabla

(I know, I know, it's way overboard, I don't believe it myself, but that's the
first thing that came to mind when I read the quote, and I had a good laugh)

~~~
higherpurpose
That's exactly what's going to happen. In fact, they already held a very
similar hearing right after the Snowden leaks, and it was all about _praising_
the NSA.

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cryoshon
I really wish the people with a lot of money from the tech sector would be
more passionate and incendiary when they address the government regarding
reeling in the NSA. Unveiled political threats such as funding candidates who
oppose incumbents siding with the NSA would also be quite helpful, I think.

You can easily write off a citizen (read: serf) with passion and aggressive
language to lobby the government, but it's much harder to ignore a superstar
who is funding your campaign and has a large and powerful corporation.

~~~
rayiner
You act as if citizens (read: serfs) are on the same side, being ignored by a
senate just looking for campaign donations.

This time last year, a majority of Americans supported the NSA program:
[http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-
way/2013/06/11/190638738/pew...](http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-
way/2013/06/11/190638738/pew-majority-of-americans-support-nsa-phone-
tracking). Only this year did the polls shift:
[http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2014/01/20/poll-...](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2014/01/20/poll-
nsa-surveillance/4638551), with a significant but not overwhelming 53-40
against the program. And as always, keep in mind that these are polls of the
public--actual voters skew older and more conservative.

A better way to frame the situation that doesn't distort it all to hell might
be that the tech sector educating Congress about the economic issues might
help tip a consensus that's still pretty deadlocked in the public when you
look at actual voters.

~~~
BrokenEnso
I'd imagine a banner at the top of Facebook for eveyone geoloc in US say to
vote for reps that don't support an unchecked US intel would get noticed by
everyone on the hill.

------
Aqueous
Translation: Zuckerberg and Nadella score points for pretending to give a shit
about NSA surveillance and users' privacy, and all of us are callously
manipulated into giving them props.

Conveniently, especially for Zuckerberg, the narrative implied here exactly
counteracts the previous narrative implied about their companies: that they do
not, in fact, give a shit.

And all they had to do was write a letter!

~~~
rhizome
I'm guessing $120MM didn't get lodged against the USA Freedumb Act.

------
afarrell
The problem with only changing the law is that you are still going to have
federal judges issuing secret rulings "rubber stamping" data collection.

The real problem isn't that the courts are rubber stamps, its that nobody
checks the courts work. Yes, I know the FISA court approves the vast majority
of requests. Most judges approve the vast majority of requests. That doesn't
mean they are rubber stamps; It means that DAs and investigators normally work
hard to get their ducks in a row before asking for a warrant. These judges are
human, so they make mistakes issuing warrants. Investigators are human, so
they make mistakes (or "mistakes") staying within the bounds of the warrant.
Then a defendant get brought in and their defense attorney sees the evidence
against their client was improperly gathered. They file a Motion to Suppress
and the judge or investigator is rebuked. If denied suppression, they can file
an appeal and it can go to as far as the Supreme Court.

Why is the FISA court a rubber stamp? Nobody checks their work. Why does
nobody check their work? There are no suppression hearings on data gathered
via PRISM because the data isn't used as evidence for a prosecution.

------
MichaelAO
Link to actual letter:
[https://www.reformgovernmentsurveillance.com/USAFreedomAct](https://www.reformgovernmentsurveillance.com/USAFreedomAct)

~~~
peterkelly
I notice they got Drew Houston rather than Condoleezza Rice to sign on behalf
of Dropbox.

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dontmindifido
As someone not from the US, it's always interesting to see the focus on US
rights with the rest of the world almost an afterthought. In my mind it seems
a lot less altruistic viewed under that lens.

------
aaronchriscohen
The only reason Big Tech is against the NSA now is because their most valuable
customers are eyeing foreign competitors based in countries with actual
privacy laws. I talk to clients all the time who want their data stored in
Luxembourg or Switzerland or Iceland. MSFT, Google, FB, et al. were totally
content to sell out the American public and aide the creation of a
surveillance state as long as they profited from it.

------
ed_blackburn
Presumably if/when American companies start loosing business to companies
based in more perceived more liberal and pro-privacy focused administrations
i.e. Germany, then the US govt. may take this seriously.

Similarly the UK economy is a services based, if organisations can't trust UK
based services because of spying then the UK govt. may re-consider wire-
tapping.

As always. Money. Talks.

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fdsary
This is bull shit, isn't it? These companies business models are based on
surveillance, but people don't understand that. What people do understand is
when gov's do surveil them.

But it's the same. I say encrypt your communications, and pull the rug under
both Zuck and the NSA.

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Zigurd
Google, meanwhile, actually acts to restore trust by putting our emails out of
the reach of orders by secret courts.

As long as laws have secret interpretations and security agencies have
exclusive access to rubber-stamp secret courts, the laws can't be trusted.

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ethana
Hurting their bottom lines? I thought it'd be sooner.

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justizin
Oh, they didn't just go to the press and declare Ed Snowden a traitor for
hurting their business?

~~~
jjoonathan
I thought that was Marc Andreessen?

~~~
justizin
I was snarking at Andreesen, who is being a baby.

~~~
girvo
The funniest part about what he said, is "Bawww we'll lose business overseas
because they know they're being spied on!"

No shit, sherlock! You _should_ lose business if your government gets caught
doing shit that foreign people don't like. Your government is allowed to do
that, yes, but you're not allowed to complain if we foreigners decide that we
don't want to do business with companies based in a country that gives zero
shits about our right to privacy.

It's all pretty hilarious tbh

------
Nux
Awww, good guys Zuckerberg and Nadella. I wonder what they're really after.

~~~
astrange
We're only playing into their secret plan to not spy on us.

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xkarga00
That's really funny

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thetigris
I would rather give all my info to the Government than to these corporate
giants. Since when did they start caring about their users ? Until they change
themselves, what's the point, oh right, CEO's have to be in news what else
will they do in their free time!

~~~
adventured
The difference is, you have a right to not use Facebook, Google, Bing, Skype,
WhatsApp, Twitter, iTunes, Gmail, Hotmail, et al.

And there are countless ways to evade Google's ability to ad track you, easily
in fact.

The government is not asking permission, and you have no rights as far as
privacy is concerned these days. None at all. You are automatically opted in.
You may not opt out.

What exactly has Google ever done to you or anybody? The US Government sprayed
black communities in St. Louis with radiation in the 1950s to see what would
happen. Let's see you top that one example, and I've got a hundred more. What
has Facebook done to you? The US Government has killed thousands of civilians
around the world in the last decade via droning. The US Government invaded
Iraq under false pretenses just so the military industrial complex could have
a sandbox to play in. The US Government was responsible for allowing slavery
for a century, preventing women from voting, and preventing blacks from
voting. The US Government systematically killed off Native American tribes.
The US Government killed hundreds of thousands in the illegal Vietnam war. The
US Government used depleted uranium shells in the Gulf War, causing thousands
to fall sick with Gulf War Syndrome; and then they tried to cover it all up
and deny those vets treatment. The US Government has been committing coups in
South America for decades. The US Government nuked Japan twice, all just to
indirectly threaten Russia.

Your turn to list examples of all the evil these big bad companies have
committed.

