
The C64 Mini Computer - retSava
https://thec64.com/
======
Maakuth
My first idea from the title was a historical product, something with RAM
expansion, multi-user OS and hard drive. A minicomputer.
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minicomputer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minicomputer))

~~~
pnutjam
Afew years ago you could have got one of these.
[https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/C64DTV](https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/C64DTV)

~~~
digi_owl
I can't shake the feel that the mini is a continuation of that. Especially i
find the bundled stick to be remarkably similar...

------
busterarm
As someone who owned a C64, the games list leaves a lot to be desired.

Some make sense, but the absence of Pirates!, The Bard's Tale series, AD&D
Gold Box and Carmen Sandiago games is noticeable. I imagine the licensing is
too hard. Then the missed gems like Cauldron I & II, Ultimate Wizard, etc.

I guess I'll stick to VICE.

~~~
colomon
Only a couple of those games did I recognize (I think). As far as I could tell
from a quick look, not a single game I did play on the C64 made the cut. I
wonder if the lack of a real keyboard severely limited the games they could
include?

Just checked the web page again, and it sounds like it IS a more or less fully
functional C64 -- you just need to add a real USB keyboard to type on it.
Wonder if it has a way to emulate a 1541 over USB?

~~~
sitkack
My reading comprehension is sht, so the keys are just for show?

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retSava
In style with NES Classic and SNES Classic, now comes the C64 in similar style
- small package with a couple of controllers and HDMI. Keyboard support to
write Basic. A handful of built-in games.

I guess it's basically the same inside too, some half-decent ARM A-line cpu
running some emulator. I can see the appeal, although I know myself and it
will be fun for a good few 10 minutes, then collect dust (not to be
pessimistic or so, I just know myself :)).

~~~
retSava
Also,

> THEC64® Mini will hit the shops in early 2018 with a suggested retail price
> of £69.99/$69.99/€79.99.

And the controller looks similar to a Tac 2, which is a win in my book :).

~~~
unwind
I think it looks very much like a Zipstik
([http://blog.tynemouthsoftware.co.uk/2016/03/zipstik-
joystick...](http://blog.tynemouthsoftware.co.uk/2016/03/zipstik-joystick-
repair.html)).

The TAC-2 is smaller and a much simpler shape, see
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAC-2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAC-2).

------
renaudg
Ohh great, 35 years old platform wars in the comments :)

The ZX Spectrum is definitely the most overrated of all of the 8-bits : it had
by far the most horrid (all but monochrome !) graphics of the bunch, and few
other redeeming qualities (mainly its price). And yet, there's no shortage of
reissues, books, and modern worship around it. Nostalgia is a strange thing,
sometimes.

The C64's cult following is much better deserved : in spite of its washed out
graphics (it doesn't even have a proper red colour!), it did have hardware
sprites, a lot of character and of course the SID: the most exquisite sound
chip ever made !

But probably the most underrated and best 8-bit of all was the Amstrad CPC :
It had hands down the best graphics of the bunch (Google ZX/C64/CPC
screenshots of Operation Wolf, Gryzor, or Stormlord and you'll know what I
mean ! Also, check out this recent and jaw-dropping homebrew CPC remake of the
Amiga's Pinball Dreams : [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVv-
oBN6AWA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVv-oBN6AWA) )

The Amstrad was also the only fully standalone one, with its built-in tape
deck or disk drive and sharp CRT screen out of the box (the screen also
doubled as a PSU, and provided proper RGB connectivity, unlike the mushy
Composite output of the C64 or ZX on the home TV)

IIRC, the C64 sold 17 million units, the various ZX variants 5 million, and
the Amstrad 3 million. The markets were quite local : the C64 was king in
Germany and northern Europe, the CPC was strongest in France (where nobody had
ever seen a Speccy ever, and hardly any C64s) and Spain (together with the
Spectrum, but not the C64)

Why the British had this strange fascination with the Spectrum and mostly
ignored their also-homegrown and vastly superior Amstrad, is a topic of great
puzzlement and affliction to me.

And I'm totally not saying that out of spite that the publisher of the
gorgeous "Visual Compedium" retro book series, was worried that the Amstrad
was "too niche" when I suggested to him that he should do one for the 8 bit
with the best graphics (because let's face it, "ZX Spectrum : a Visual
Compedium" is kind of an oxymoron). The latest book he had just released was
about the Neo Geo. Talk about niche ...

~~~
jdietrich
The CPC launched in 1984, just before the home computer crash. It was a
relatively expensive and unproven machine, competing in a market that was
glutted with unsold stock at knock-down prices. With the required monitor, the
CPC 464 cost £300. That Christmas, you could have had a Spectrum 48k Plus for
£140 or an Acorn Electron for £100, with a free tape recorder and a bundle of
games. Your mates probably had Specrums, so you could copy all their games for
the price of a blank cassette. The CPC wasn't that much cheaper than the BBC
Model B, which was the respectable middle-class home computer at the time.

The Speccy was the right computer for the times. It arrived very early on in
the home computer boom and was very keenly priced, so it maintained good
network effects throughout its lifespan. The machine was cheap, the
peripherals were cheap and there were loads of games. Sir Clive didn't
fragment the platform by introducing incompatible new models, he just kept
cutting the price. The Speccy remained popular into the tail end of the 1980s,
almost entirely because of the huge back catalogue of games. We loved it in
part _because_ it was a bit crap and because Sir Clive was such a hopeless
businessman - the British have a terrible soft spot for underdogs.

The CPC didn't sell well as a home computer, but it was quite attractive as a
small-business machine - the monochrome display was cheap and reasonably
crisp, the 3" floppy drive was far cheaper than 3.5" drives and it would run
CP/M. Lord Sugar responded very shrewdly with the PCW series, which was
tailored for business and sold far better than the CPC. Marketing the PCW as a
word processor rather than a computer and bundling it with a printer was a
minor stroke of genius, with the brilliant slogan "more than a word processor
for less than most typewriters".

Amstrad had the last laugh by buying out the rights to the Spectrum, but the
sheer quantity of Speccies that Amstrad sold is a testament to the platform.

------
Koshkin
> _plug in a USB keyboard and use as a fully functional home computer_

This is weird... Why would I plug a keyboard into what looks like a perfectly
good keyboard?

~~~
Luc
It is a simulacrum. Adding a real, custom tiny keyboard (which 99% of buyers
won't use anyway) would probably double the price.

~~~
the_af
Understandable, but disappointing. There already are emulators for the
software. For the real experience, I'd like to type using that clunky C64
keyboard :P

~~~
Koshkin
Exactly. A non-working simulation is something that goes strongly against the
geek mentality.

~~~
djur
Nintendo has sold a great many NES and SNES Classics with non-working
cartridge drives, and I'm sure a lot of the people buying those were geeks, so
it must not go too strongly against it.

------
leoc
On the higher end of 8-bit-micro reissues, there's the ZX Spectrum Next:
[https://www.specnext.com/about/](https://www.specnext.com/about/) . The
industrial design is by Rick Dickinson, who designed all the original
Spectrums up to the QL.

~~~
throwaway7645
That's amazing...if I don't like Kickstarter, can i buy one after the campaign
is over?

Also, will it come with a good documentation? Things in the 80's often had
phenomenal documentation that was designed to teach and not just point out the
location of a few pins.

I never used the Zx before. What is the user experience like? When you boot
up, can you bring up a BASIC prompt or type in Assembly?

~~~
j_s
[https://www.specnext.com/the-shop-is-now-live](https://www.specnext.com/the-
shop-is-now-live) (Jun 2017)

 _the Next is available for pre-ordering here on the website. There are,
though, a couple of changes we made to keep things fair for everyone: first,
the shipping date is a month later than for the KS backers, they will get
their boards and machines first; second, the Next now has a 20% margin over
the original price_

[https://www.specnext.com/shop](https://www.specnext.com/shop)

ZX Spectrum Next board (devkit) £119.00 + VAT

ZX Spectrum Next computer £210.00 + VAT

ZX Spectrum Next Accelerated computer £275.00 + VAT

~~~
binarycrusader
Except, as far as I can tell, all of them are not available for pre-order
either (at least not anymore).

~~~
leoc
The official word on further availability seems to be "likely but can't yet
confirm":
[https://www.specnext.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=696](https://www.specnext.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=696)

------
twsted
The more I think about the experience we had many years ago with these simple
and beautiful computers, the more I think that we should recreate the same
experience for our children. I think that the path is: a very easy starting
point (like a BASIC REPL) and the possibility to Peek and Poke at a later
stage.

~~~
foobarian
A simple fpga based machine with a simple instruction set, HDMI out, and gobs
more memory than used to exist. Nicer graphics say 1900x1200 with good BASIC
primitives. Instant on. SD card reader. No internal storage other than ROM.

------
Theodores
I did not recognize any of the game titles. I was around then but I did not
realize how different the titles on the C64 were to those available on
Sinclair and Acorn computers.

Is this a representative selection of titles from the era?

I would be very interested if there was any correlation between home computer
brands and automotive brands. Commodore was marketed in the UK in a way that
brings to mind Vauxhall cars (GM).

It is too late to do the data now but in my mind Sinclair was more like Ford
UK and Acorn more like a properly engineered German marque, e.g. Mercedes.

Much like you would never put G.M. parts in a Ford but you could put a Ford or
GM engine in some other car, e.g. a Lotus sports car, it seems that there were
reasons beyond hardware limitations for why some titles never crossed over.
Only Commodore users got certain sub-genres, e.g. those text adventure things.

~~~
ant512
A bunch of these were also Spectrum hits: Heartland, the Monty Mole series,
and Everyone's A Wally are some stand-outs. California Games got converted to
pretty much every platform around.

~~~
stevekemp
Cybernoid / Cybernoid II too, I remember playing those on my 48k Spectrum.

Infinite lives if you redefined your keys as "YXES" on the original, and as
"ORGY" on the sequel. Once done you'll hear an audio confirmation and you can
reset them to whatever you like.

20+ years and I still remember those!

------
mapster
this is a 'gateway drug' to getting a full C=64 system so you can Commodore 64
properly: Karatika, Bruce Lee, Print Shop + Epson dotmatrix printer to make
banners

------
gerdesj
I have just had my C64 restored by a friend. SID n VID needed replacing along
with a few other bits. The video out is now SCART and it now sports an eight
GB SD Card and Fastboot.

Just got it back and fired it up. Nostalgia in spades.

------
GlenTheMachine
I'd be a lot more likely to get it if it wasn't half-sized, actually. Gotta be
impossible to type on that keyboard.

~~~
wvenable
I'm going to assume that keyboard is non-functional but I'd happy to be wrong
about that.

~~~
armadsen
Sounds like it. From the About page:

>As befits a home computer you can also plug in a standard USB PC keyboard and
use as a classic C64 to type in those old BASIC computer listings or program
new games.

It doesn't seem like they'd phrase it that way unless you were _required_ to
plug in a USB keyboard in order to type.

------
Vaskivo
I would be interested if it had the original hardware.

What are the challenges in producing new C64 (and NES and SNES) with the same
hardware? I believe there are a lot of modern Genesis copies using the same
hardware.

~~~
ashark
Modern, real-hardware NES: [https://www.analogue.co/pages/nt-
mini](https://www.analogue.co/pages/nt-mini)

FPGA NES:
[http://www.retrousb.com/product_info.php?cPath=36&products_i...](http://www.retrousb.com/product_info.php?cPath=36&products_id=78)

~~~
ashark
Too late for me to edit, but the Analogue-NT Mini _is also_ FPGA. I got that
wrong. Pretty sure the original NT _was_ fully hardware, not FPGA, but I don't
think it's available anymore.

Main difference between the two linked products, then, aside from appearance
and maybe build quality (can't say which is better, don't own either), is
output options, as best I can tell (the NT has _a lot_ of AV out options). And
price, obviously.

[EDIT] The reason video out options are important, aside from aesthetics, is
that some peripherals require a CRT. Notably the Zapper.

------
Boothroid
Wondering how authentic the audio recreation will be? SID chip is very
popular.

------
brians
It looks like this has some of the same product people as
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C64_Direct-to-
TV](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C64_Direct-to-TV) , but critically not Jeri
Ellsworth.

~~~
white-flame
It certainly doesn't look like a hardware reimplementation, either. It's most
likely going to be ARM-based emulation. With the DTV you could at least
connect it to external C64 peripherals and do cool things with it.

------
crispyambulance
Very nice. Put together, it seems, with a very small team. Curious what their
pricing will be and how they managed to license all those games. Interesting
that they could include the games but then not use the word "Commodore". It
appears that the brand owner still exists, sort of?
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_USA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_USA)).

~~~
lewisflude
On the site it suggests £69.99/$69.99

------
slyrus
Add Archon, Seven Cities of Gold, Alligata Blagger, Lode Runner, M.U.L.E.,
Bruce Lee or IK, and take my damn money, please.

------
greedo
I dreamed of owning this computer or the Sinclair ZX80 when I was in high
school. Our media center had two Apple ][ computers, but access to them was
very limited. It would take me two more years to buy my own Apple IIc.

------
chicago_wade
I'd love to see the demoscene do something cool with it :)

~~~
white-flame
It's ARM-based, so if it isn't using one of the big kahuna emulators (the RPi3
isn't powerful enough to do VICE full-spec), it's unlikely to run even
existing C64 demos.

And since there's no mention of any expanded features of the C64-ness itself,
there's no draw to do any development for this device in particular.

------
throwaway7645
How easy would it be to write games on this that use the joy stick, and what
are the compiler options? BASIC interpreter, C compiler, Pascal compiler,
Assembly?

~~~
biggieshellz
C64 BASIC is pretty terrible -- to do anything with graphics or sound, you
really have to use PEEK/POKE and do it in 6502 assembly. Aside from that, 6502
assembly is your best bet. There are lots of tutorials online for the C64
specifically, and there are good cross-assembler toolchains available.

~~~
throwaway7645
Sounds fun, but kind of a pain. I've been meaning to write a Forth...sounds
like a good project.

~~~
jerf
It is definitely doable:
[https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/Forth](https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/Forth)

------
throwaway7645
Any text adventures included? I've played Zork on the C64 and it was great.

~~~
colomon
None I recognized the name of on their list, and you'd have to add a USB
keyboard to type on it. (Also, speaking as someone who played lots of Infocom
games on his C64, I don't think there's any advantage whatsoever to playing
them there as opposed to a modern terminal of some sort?)

~~~
throwaway7645
I've got Zork on other platforms, but it did seem cool.

------
earlybike
Will it have a real keyboard?

~~~
white-flame
No, only the full-sized THEC64 claims a working keyboard. The mini model just
has keyboard-looking styling.

