
Ask HN: Co-found with someone very vocal about his politically incorrect views? - anonymous648725
I am starting a company together with a friend. One of us will be the technical founder, the other one the business person. We are both relatively junior, and have the option to take a third person on board. This person is much more senior than us and is a big name in our field. He would not contribute day-to-day, but his name and network could open many doors that would otherwise stay closed. We would offer him a 5-10% share of the company.<p>The issue is that this person is very vocal about his politically incorrect, alt-right leaning views. He takes every opportunity to rant (in strong language) about how politicians are dumb, diversity quota are bullshit, climate change protesters are stupid, etc. Also to people who did not show any signs of being interested in holding such a discussion, for example at networking events.<p>My problem is not so much with his political ideas in itself (I have many good friends and colleagues that I disagree politically with) but with the fact that he is so vocal about them and has built somewhat of a reputation for it.<p>In particular I&#x27;m worried about two things:
- Although he will open some doors, he might also close some others. I wonder if a politically correct company (take Google as an example) that knows about his reputation could be put off by it.
- He does not fit in the company culture that we want to build. Again, not because of his differing views (we can agree to disagree), but because he is so unnecessarily vocal about them, which might deter future employees who take offense.<p>Any experiences or advice you can share?
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wjossey
You’re going to have 100 things you disagree about in the first year, and you
need to be able to talk those through without it being a world war. If he can
do that, despite how he is around politics, then he at least checks one box.

If you’re not unified in the type of culture you want to build, that will be
debt you have to pay down in the future. Might not bite you till an A round,
but will matter some day if successful.

If they’re a straight up liability, which he sounds like he might be, you may
end up having a cofounder leave early with a huge chunk of equity, which is
always less than ideal. If you can limit his equity stake or increase the
vesting cycle you may need to look into that.

Happy to talk more one on one. Email is in my profile.

Best of luck.

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kelseydh
This is the best answer, full of practicality and lacking in judgement.

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altairiumblue
Bring it up with him and see how the conversation goes. If your relationship
can't handle one difficult conversation, it certainly won't handle cofounding
a company together.

Other questions that come to mind are - if he has a reputation for this, will
your company really benefit from his name and network? Also, maybe you and the
other cofounder can tolerate this person - but would your politically
incorrect colleague be as tolerant of new people that come on board: can he
work in a healthy way with people who are clearly left-leaning or in a
minority group?

You do not want to be mentally and verbally tiptoeing around other people in
your company. You also don't want to be embarrassed by someone whose name and
network are supposed to help your company. And since you're just starting and
have more control than usual, you also have more flexibility in choosing who
you partner up with.

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twblalock
It sounds like this guy is negative publicity for you and you can find a
replacement.

I would not want to work for a company with a controversial founder because he
is just one more obstacle for a startup trying to get off the ground.

If you tried to recruit me and you told me one of your cofounders was an alt-
right controversialist, I would never consider working for you. You should
wonder about the quality (or desperation) of the prospective employees who
would put up with that kind of thing.

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kakfjfjsndnnf
You describe a classic example of a toxic person. Stay away from him,
especially if he expects they many shares for minimal amount of work. He will
be as vocal about his unhappiness with your company if things go south. The
worst part is the overall environment he will create around your early
employees. No one would want to work for a company like that to know someone
got so many shares for doing basically nothing.

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notahacker
You're only considering bringing him on board to create a first impression of
your company, and you think it'll be the wrong one. You're proposing giving
him equity mainly to network and you're not actually impressed with how he
acts at networking events. This shouldn't be a difficult decision, even if his
paper credentials are great.

It's not like hiring a developer whose political commentary is a bit annoying,
it's like hiring a developer whose main contribution to your company is
rapidly increasing the number of security holes in your product

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namuol
> He does not fit in the company culture that we want to build.

Sounds like you already know what to do.

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laurentl
This right here. Actions speak louder than words, and if your first action is
to go contrary to the company culture you profess, how do you expect anyone to
believe in it?

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rwallace
I would think long and hard before giving someone ten percent of the company
just for making the occasional phone call, when you will be expecting people
to bust their asses for much less. I might do it if everything else so
indicated strongly enough. But if the negatives seem likely to be as heavy as
the positives? No way. This, mind you, does not constitute drawing any
conclusions about whether he's a good or bad person. It just needs a straight
pragmatic business decision.

~~~
codegeek
This is the best answer. Forget about his political views but I would not give
anyone 10% just for opening some doors.

I would offer some type of commission incentive and keep them away from any
equity of possible.

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Mikhail_Edoshin
Why don't you voice this very concern directly to that person? Does the
culture you're about to build in your company includes honesty and sincerity?
Probably not, because it seems that you believe people are not supposed to say
what they actually think. In that case you should certainly avoid taking him
on board, he won't fit.

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soneca
It is a deal breaker to me because of _" He does not fit in the company
culture that we want to build"_.

The company culture is not something you artificially build for an abstract
entity called "company". The culture of your company === the culture of the
people that form your company.

There is no workaround if he joins your company. And as he is more senior,
famous and all, the influence on the company will be maybe larger than yours.
You will get job candidates that get to know the company because of this
person.

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cbanek
Sounds like a large share of the company for what sounds to me like a
liability. A bad actor can sink an early stage venture very easily. I'd just
try to build your network a different way. If you already know what doors they
would open, maybe look for one of those people to join you instead. Seems like
you could do better, and it feels like from your post that you feel the same.
Trust your gut. Does the other founder want you to do this or are you both on
the same page?

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pizza
If you think their honest opinions are probably a liability, that's probably
going to compromise your relationship from the start, right?

I totally understand being able to work well with people whose politics you
disagree with. But you gotta make sure that you see them as a great colleague
to work with, not somebody you're embarrassed to be acquainted with! :)

Sounds like instead of piggy-backing off their network, you need one of your
own. Not easy but it will probably pay off.

~~~
Carpetsmoker
I don't think OP's problem is the politics as such, but rather that this
person "takes every opportunity to rant in strong language" about them.

That sounds rather ... unhinged, no matter what those political believes might
be. Reminds me of Bobby Fischer in his later years.

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aries1980
It depends on your business. Steve Jobs wasn't boardroom-compatible, but
Apple's financials got him accepted by the old-fashioned investors.

If your product is loved by the users and generates loads of money, you can
think whatever will want, people will want to invest in your company. Even if
you are a dictator and you fall under international sanctions.

Until then, your potential co-founder should better be busy with getting there
instead of converting the world.

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kyo3
You should trust your judgement on this one, it already sounds like you’re
leaning towards turning him away and just want confirmation. If he doesn’t fit
your company culture why would you hire him? If he were a day to day employee,
would you still hire him if he wasn’t a culture fit?

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a-saleh
It seems to me, that you don't really want to be associated with this person.
If that is the case, don't associate. Find somebody you are aligned with.

I.e. if you want him to represent the company on networking event's, you don't
want to stand around with banners saying "Our investors private opinions don't
represent the views of the company!", if he is so _public_ about his private
opinions :-)

Especially consider if you would ever clash directly. What if _you_ would want
to have a diversity initiative in your hiring? e.t.c.

On the other hand, if you agree to disagree, but you really like him and don't
mind that others might view you as politically incorrect, get him on-board.

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mchannon
If company culture is your primary goal, start a charity or a country club.

There's a depressingly small amount of daylight between the pools of investor
capital available on good terms and the language this guy speaks. I imagine
he'll shake the money loose like few others because this is the exact language
many of the target market speaks.

Put a shotgun clause on his share and remember that a 5-10% minority of your
company is not your company. If you want to do some "actual good", you're not
going to do it while broke.

Hate the game, not the player. Don't begrudge your truffle pig his table
manners.

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wtmt
You seem to know better already. In your early days, the more you can avoid
known pitfalls and issues, the better. So you must avoid taking this person
in. Otherwise either you and/or your co-founder may quit in frustration
because of this person, and leave this whole idea behind as a bitter
experience. To go from inspiration and excitement to a bitter parting of ways
would be terrible.

Avoid this from happening, and also the possibility that one day you may write
a blog post about how you ended up making this wrong decision and how it hurt
you. :)

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unforeseen9991
I wouldn't even work with him for 0% stake, as there is obviously a
misalignment of values.

Treat business partners like you would dating. All I see is massive red flags:

"...to people who did not show any signs of being interested in holding such a
discussion, for example at networking events."

"He takes every opportunity to rant (in strong language)"

Some doors should remain closed. I question the network and the people who
would associate with such a person, those people would not be my target
customers.

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rajacombinator
Usually I’d say avoid such a person. But it depends. He acts like this yet is
still influential in your industry, so it hasn’t been a problem for him so
far. I’d be more concerned about giving 5-10% to a guy who’s going to make a
few phone calls. Will he let you skip some major sales/funding cycles? Can you
get him onboard as an investor for instead? That would solve your PR problem
too, it’s more ok to have shitty people as investors.

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christopher8827
It depends... I think the Paypal Mafia had politically opposite views and it
worked out because they didn't let it affect work. I think the most infamous
example would be Peter Thiel and Keith Rabois: "Rabois came to Thiel's
attention after he was found outside an instructor's home, shouting homophobic
slurs and the suggestion that the instructor "die of AIDS.".

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SamReidHughes
They didn’t hold opposite views. Rabois was being a free speech edgelord.

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miguelmota
It sounds like it will hurt the business more than it will benefit it, which
goes against the best-interests of stakeholders including yourself. Have a
friendly conversation with him and decide if this person is worth working with
based on his willingness to change certain behaviors that you don't approve
of. If not, then you two aren't the best fit for each other as cofounders

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MrLeftHand
Company interest is king. If the person's skill set and connections are a
valuable asset to the company, then his personal views and traits shouldn't be
something to be concerned about. Maybe tell him to dial down the preaching and
focus on the job. Measure his value through what he does and not what he says.

On the side note I think this topic is quite frightening in some way. We
reached a point where a company, or employee is not going to be measured by
the product or value they make, but what political views they represent. Soon
we are going to have political questions on an interview. The companies will
police their employees what they say and what they do in social circles.
Workplaces become political echo chambers.

Also like how you just state that he is "politically incorrect", making your
views the only correct ones. Not different, but incorrect.

Talking about double standards.

~~~
altairiumblue
> his personal views and traits shouldn't be something to be concerned about.

Unless he's bringing them up inappropriately in a work meeting. Then it's very
much something to be concerned about.

I think there's a fallacy in your argument - you're taking OP's concern about
associating with someone who's openly alt-right and assuming that the response
that follows is making the workplace too far-left, "politically correct",
asking political question as screening etc. While the appropriate response is
having a politically neutral working environment - where the best technical
ideas win, where decisions are based on facts, where people aren't screened
for their personal views, and where those views aren't brought up if they're
irrelevant.

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dkoston
Early hires are incredibly important as losing someone early derails progress.
Think long and hard about who you want to partner with.

Any person you bring on board should vest over time so that if you’re wrong,
it doesn’t cripple your cap table.

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ToFab123
You should not start a company with someone you don't want to be around. You
will have to work closely with him for years to come. You want that life? Find
another option and leave him behind.

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pryelluw
Would you go to war for this person?

