
Quitting my job has been the best thing I've done for my career - jhu247
https://www.joshuahu.io/blog/quitting/
======
bradneuberg
I've been in the industry nearly 20 years and I always take breaks between
jobs. I've worked for startups, Google, Dropbox, non-profits, etc. Between
jobs I've pursued personal growth, traveled extensively, re-tooled my CS skill
sets in new directions, gotten healthy, done extensive open source work, and
more. I highly recommend it to others in the industry if you have the ability
to do so; it's only helped my personal and professional career not hurt it.

Live your own life and don't let others tell you how you're supposed to exist.

~~~
biscottigelato
Any tips for companies to take your open sourced work as experience? I've
mostly just been thrown the book at doing algorithm puzzles and such... Got
rejected for not 'technically competent' despite polished complex app on both
the App Store and on Github. It's insulting to the point I want to start
cancelling processes with all Unicorns...

~~~
dorchadas
Same. I had a website that I was fairly proud of that involved DjangoREST and
Angular and such, and was basically told "Anyone can do that" when I applied
for a _junior_ job. It was horribly demotivating, and I don't know if I've
seriously applied for a coding job since, which is sad as I'd love to shift
into programming and still do it on my own.

~~~
ioddly
Interviews & job applications are not a fair evaluation of your skills,
they're a giant and terrible filter.

Don't let it stop you from continuing to apply for jobs. If you have written a
Django/Angular site from scratch you are more than qualified for a junior
position.

~~~
dorchadas
Thanks. I'm gonna keep working on some of my other projects, and get back to
applying to what I find open involving those technologies and others I know.
It was just a frustrating thing hearing that and, since I have a steady job
(even if I don't particularly _enjoy_ it), it was hard to make myself apply
for programming ones after hearing it. Just need to move on and keep doing it.

------
dunkelheit
Recently quite a few articles appeared on HN about escaping the rat race for a
while and taking some time off. As someone who has a little savings and who is
a bit burnt out I've been toying with the idea myself quite a bit. My biggest
fear is that because I have only a vague idea of what I want to do with my
time, I will fritter away my sabbatical, not accomplish much and end up pretty
much at the same point (but with less money). OTOH maybe my ideas about what I
want to do are vague precisely because I don't have much time to flesh them
out.

~~~
txcwpalpha
I did this, and unfortunately your fears became reality for me. Like you said,
I only had a vague idea of what I wanted to do (including traveling, starting
my own company, continuing education, side projects, etc). Almost 2 years into
it I ended up just barely dabbling in each. I traveled for a few months,
worked on some side projects, and learned some new things, but didn't really
do anything "big" or traditionally "worthwhile" with my sabbatical. I look at
my friends and colleagues who in this time period have gotten promotions, new
jobs, MBAs, etc and I start feel like my time has been wasted. People keep
telling me that once I join the workforce again that I will look back fondly
on this time, but right now I definitely don't.

The most frustrating thing I have experienced is that society in general is
still not accepting of people taking "sabbatical" in their 20s. While about
10% of people think it's cool that I quit my job and am flying by the seat of
my pants, the other 90% hear that I'm unemployed and treat me like a pariah.
It's been _very_ eye opening to me just how linked your personal identity is
to your job. And I don't mean job as in "I am a programmer", but specifically
the actual name of the company you are employed by. I've had people be very
interested in conversation with me at social events when I talk about work-
related things, but when I actually say the words "I don't currently work
anywhere and am taking some time off", those same people have literally picked
up their drinks and walked away.

It's particularly bad with recruiters now that I'm ready to start looking for
a new job again. Even though I left my company on extremely good terms (they
literally begged me to stay!), recruiters seem to see that I left [insert
major well respected company here] and assume that I must been have fired.
Most still seem to think Google et al are some extremely coveted workplaces
and can't imagine that someone would willingly leave them. It is a very tough
hurdle to get over.

~~~
nubbins
Not sure who your friends are but where I am half the young people are
creatives or otherwise not traditionally full time employed and my experience
has been people are far more likely to avoid you for being a boring
banker/lawyer/accountant in a suit (which I used to be) than unemployed with a
good story about what you are doing, which could spark a decent conversation.

~~~
nwellinghoff
What the fuck is a "creative"?

~~~
yoz-y
An encompassing term for artists, designers, illustrators and other profession
where your job is mainly to get original ideas and implement them.

~~~
Latteland
So does that mean using engineering and math as the basis of building bespoke
software is not creative in that sense? Just curious, not criticism - because
I always thought of designing the architecture of a large software system,
making it work within constraints, codes, making it easy to work on, fit
withing design constraints, a beautiful UI, even a new programming language as
creative.

~~~
yoz-y
As far as I know no. I do agree with you that programming (and many other
professions) can be/are creative. Still having the term "creative" as
profession does not mean that other professions are un-creative. People like
to put people in bins and give them labels, and I suppose that creative is the
main ability these professions require.

Maybe one thing that is specific (at least from when I spoke with people
employing creatives) is that they have more leeway on what to do.

------
lovelearning
A "gap" seems to be almost like a crime no tech worker should dare do. I have
seen otherwise rational coworkers reject resumes only for having a "gap". Most
want to relax, but the same people also punish those who do just that. I
thought it was a quirk of the society I live in, but from comments here, it
looks like it's the norm in all countries.

~~~
bitexploder
We give our employees time to take sabbaticals. One person took 6 weeks and
hiked the El Camino trail in Spain. We actually have to encourage people to
take time off :)

~~~
humbleMouse
6 weeks isnt a sabbatical. Thats a normal vacation in europe.

~~~
bitexploder
Interesting. I guess most Americans would call a sabbatical longer than that
too, but it is a decent, hard disconnect from work well beyond a typical
vacation. I don’t think I have taken that long off in 20 years.

~~~
sticazzi
Sabbatical is 1 year or more. 6 weeks is a vacation. You should also look up
an article about bragging that was on HN few days ago.

~~~
bitexploder
Good article on bragging. I do it some of the time and without any shame. Part
of being a business owner is promoting it with honesty. It blurs the line with
bragging IMO. I do try to avoid it on HN, but pride, etc. I almost never share
IRL, most people will not understand the context or effort or sacrifices
required, and, a lot of it is luck too, so bragging obviously is self
servicing to some extent. Thanks for pointing it out though, genuinely, it is
good to think about. I think this fell under item (6) of the article.

------
adamnemecek
I recommend quitting your job even if you don't have anything lined up. Read
those books you wanted to read. Contribute to open source (people contact me
with consulting work thanks to this). Learn new frameworks. You'll figure out
something. Go network. I sometimes contact maintainers of open source projects
I contribute to. This is the best networking advice anyone can give you. 1337
h4xx0rz don't go to meetups. However they are very willing to talk to people
who help them with their projects. These are the people you should be meeting.

Take time off (I definitely needed it, my anxiety was through the roof, my
sleep schedule was really fucked up). The days just seemed to be slipping
away. Work was both stressful and boring. I'm actually pretty happy these days
which is something I haven't felt in a long time.

I've convinced two friends to do the same, they are both very thankful.

My skills are 10x what they used to be. There is a lot of non-linear gains
from working 10 hours a day at your pace, on shit you care about. There are
days where in 2 days I do stuff that might have taken me 2 weeks previously.

My confidence as a programmer has also really improved. Like few things are
truly impossible given enough time.

The thing to remember is that even if your thing doesn't work out, you'll be
in a better position.

Hit me up if you want to talk about your plans, my email is in my profile.

Check out the project I'm working on if you feel like it
[http://ngrid.io](http://ngrid.io).

~~~
sleazebreeze
ngrid looks pretty cool! I've spent some time looking for something like this
- combining structural editing with music. I'm not adept with music theory or
production techniques, so I find many of the traditional tools do not work for
me. I put my email in the form and I'd love to hear more about it.

~~~
adamnemecek
Yeah I hate all the daws. They are good for editing audio not editing music in
the note space.

Current music theory is kinda terrible. I’ve developed something that I like
to think supersedes it and I’m beyond pumped to show it to the world. But it’s
hard so it’s taking some time.

------
ian0
If you want to re-enter the workforce without any ill effect from the break -
it really helps if you _do something_!

If your going to travel, travel. Travel around the world, drive the pan-
american highway. Travel can be cheap as long as you can save up enough for
transport to a cheap country: Go to mexico, learn spanish. Go to India, live
on a mountaintop. Its actually fun to keep in the loop tech wise from a random
location somewhere! And the hiring manager in two years time will be jealous,
not suspicious.

If you really want to work (during your only long holiday for the next 30
years!), then make that your focus. Make the side project happen, join an
accelerator, make it a full time job - because it will be if its successful.
If its to learn a new field (carpentry, art, mechanic) then take the time to
be become an apprentice, don't just google youtube videos.

Do something fun. Take a few chances. And I can pretty much guarantee you wont
regret it at all.

------
Cursuviam
I've been treating my sabbatical time post graduation as basically summer
vacation and honestly, it's been pretty nice. For the past 4 years, I've been
researching, in school, or working an internship, so I haven't had a period of
time to just be carefree for quite sometime.

I'm very happy right now, but mostly that's because I have a roommate who's
unemployed right now, so most of the time I'm not alone in the house and have
another person to go on adventures with, as well as have most of my network of
college friends and friends still in college around.

On the con side, I've discovered that unstructured working at home descends
quickly into distraction and browsing HN too much. I think I might try setting
time each day where I go to a coffeeshop and work on coding projects, creative
writing, and reading, as the change of scenery might help change my focus
modal.

Finally, I recognize that I'm incredibly privileged to be able to do this.
Having well-payed internships and a 1%'er family is giving me an opportunity
for relaxation and travel that most Americans lack. I'm planning on spending
more of my hiatus time volunteering for local causes for what I wish I could
say is the goodness of my heart, but is honestly out of guilt and boredom.

~~~
sizzle
1%'er you say? You've piqued my interest, mind sharing what your family did to
get there?

Can anyone guess how many 1%'ers are on HN?

~~~
csomar
My guess is that most HN'ers are 1%'ers. Those who are not are on the way to
get there. The 1% is not really special and doesn't take much money/effort to
get there. The 0.1% would be more interesting.

~~~
mettamage
You mean in income? I would love to get there. I am based near Amsterdam and
willing to relocate.

Specialties: web dev, ios, coding bootcamps

~~~
csomar
You might not in the top 1% of devs but probably in the top 1% of your
country. Also by being near Amsterdam you are already in the top 1% of the
world.

------
stephengillie
When I feel burned out, I take a contract position with a BigCo. The pay is
still good, the problems are still relevant, and the slower pace is quite
restorative. Plus it leaves merely a scar on your resume instead of a gap.

------
benburleson
One thing I realized more recently is the value of building your nest egg
early. Sure, you have many years down the road to earn money, but the later
you earn it, the less time that money will be working for you. Put it away
early, don't touch it, and it quietly grows. Burn down your reserves now, and
you get no benefit of all the upcoming years of interest (or ROI, etc).

~~~
usaar333
On the other hand, marginal tax rates are a thing. If you take six months off
(across a year boundary), you might be only losing 55% of your salary or so,
not the entire thing. (That is your marginal rate is much higher than
effective)

Say you get 5% real returns in stocks after taxes on distributions. After 15
years, you've lost about 10 months of salary at your effective rate.

Having to work 4 extra months 15 years in the future to take 6 months off now
seems like a reasonable trade. (It's a 3.5% annual discount rate on the
future).

PS: if you get into a situation where you have an income surge one year (say
an IPO), it's a no brainier to do this. The tax rate differences on income now
vs future can be high enough to match all stock returns.

------
jgamman
in NZ (and Aus i guess) we call this an OE (Overseas Experience) and it is
incredibly common for someone in their 20's to up sticks and bugger off to the
UK (and others) for several months or years.

They/we aren't, for the most part, privileged - they land in London with 50
quid, buy an A-Z at the airport and doss with friends under the kitchen table
till they land a job doing whatever. Save and party until summer and then a
long af van trip around Europe seeing the sights. Rinse and repeat if you've
got the stomach for it. Variations exist.

The leaving your country part is the important part. Even if it's English
speaking you'd be surprised at the resilience you need to just get s __* done
arriving somewhere at midnight with no idea where you 're going to sleep.

Being punished for 'gaps' in your CV is a cultural thing. There are no gaps in
your life, just... life.

~~~
hex20
Very true. You also see it happening the other way around now, with people
from Germany and the UK coming to NZ/AU to do an OE of there own.

------
juancampa
I am currently doing something like this. I quit my job to embark in a the
most ambitious project of my life and so far it's been quite the experience.

One thing that I've discovered working on my own is the value of solitude.
When I'm _really_ alone, I can talk to myself out loud and I've found that it
allows me to think 10X clearer. Maybe it's just me, but externalizing my
thoughts without bothering about what others think it's great for creativity.

------
amrx431
Many paradigms of life don't apply if you are a citizen of a developing
country with billion people in it and you happen to be the first person in the
history of your family who doesn't work as an agricultural labourer on a
landlords field.

------
trycrmr
Does anyone else see articles like this and think about how much money in
retirement they're foregoing? By not maxing out 401k & IRA deposits each year
in your 20s you're missing out on significant gains from compound interest
later in life. A sabbatical like this makes sense to me when you're
comfortable with the trajectory of your retirement. The other situation is
where significant mental health issues that can't be sorted out by adjusting
schedule & lifestyle around work are going to negatively impact your career
anyways. It could be worth it to take the loss on retirement account deposits
to sort things out.

------
filmgirlcw
I appreciate that the author acknowledged his privilege (both economically and
his support system) and that he said it’s not intended to be prescriptive
(except that even with that disclaimer, the takeaway is still prescriptive —
otherwise why write it this way?), but so many people — even from similarly
privileged backgrounds — can’t do something like this, and I would argue
shouldn’t.

If you graduate with lots of student loans, aren’t making a salary that makes
it easy to save (which is common even for high earners in expensive cities),
and don’t have a network to get reliable freelance/contract work (assuming
what you do could be freelanced/contracted out — engineering can but some
jobs/skillsets are much harder to do, especially if you’re in your 20s), this
is the sort of thing that might be good for your mental and physical well-
being, but could end up causing more stresses in the future.

As others have said, fair or not, having gaps on a resume can be problematic
(and ageism in tech is a real thing) when trying to reseek employment. At the
very least, re-entering the workforce at the same level (assuming you left at
“senior” or a mid-level equivalent) might be tough. I suppose if you were a
junior dev or just starting out, it would be easier to come back at the same
level — but rob may not have the same burnout in that case.

That said, I do think it’s very valuable to recognize what you want and what
you don’t want out of life and a career. And that might mean not being in the
rat race in your 20s and it might mean realizing you don’t aspire to have the
lifestyle that comes with being a well-paid tech worker if it means you have
no work/life balance and are slowly killing yourself.

I used to dream about just quitting my job and taking a sabbatical. I was too
scared that after the break was over, I wouldn’t be able to find employment
the same way. Maybe that was unfounded, but that was my fear.

I wound up switching careers and even though I make more money, I have a
better work/life balance and I no longer dream of quitting. And for what it’s
worth, the extra money is nice — but if I made what I made before and had the
same lifestyle I have now, it would be worth it. I’d even take a pay cut.

~~~
atentaten
Which career did you switch to?

------
woohoo7676
Good article, I did this several years ago (or rather I quit, got a part time
contract job, then went full sabbatical).

Definitely agree with the negatives, the procrastination and loneliness is
very real when you're on your own. I tried to make my own app and started
getting depressed when I associated its failure with my own (since who else do
you have to blame).

Still don't regret it though, I think it actually helped my career by forcing
me to learn parts of running a business and programming I never would have
done otherwise. But it's not all roses for sure.

------
patcon
I've taken a couple breaks in between jobs, and I've come to realize that I
have my very best work-life balance while unemployed. It's uncanny.

I work hard on my community projects, and then actually go out and socialize
when I'm tired of working. Sometimes that's every night, but sometimes (if I'm
feeling invigorated by a task), I will work nonstop for a week, before I need
a social recharge.

Obviously, that is a single person's perspective of it, but I feel like it
would be comparable if I'd been in a relationship :)

~~~
Maro
Same here. The 1-2 months I usually take off between jobs is always super
productive. I do a lot of reading, write blog posts, hack out stuff.

~~~
anotheryou
So you quit before you search for a new job? Most job offers I see are ASAP.

~~~
Maro
I just tell the next company that I will join on date X. I don't care about
their ASAPs.

------
rb808
If you've seen Europeans backpacking around Asia, Australians in Europe or
Canadians in South America, its a common thing - with people from countries
with a firm safety net. Its a pity Americans dont get that same security and
have to work work work.

~~~
johnomarkid
It's less about the safety net and more about re-entering your career at a
similar level. In Germany you'd be hard pressed to explain why you took two
years off of your career and now want to come back.

Re Europeans traveling around Asia - Europeans tend to graduate university
later than Americans and then embark on one or more internships before diving
into their work contracts. It's not uncommon to take a break between those
transitional periods to travel for a bit. But it is uncommon to leave your
permanent contract to travel Asia for two years.

------
shazam
So how did it benefit his career?

~~~
np_tedious
My thoughts exactly. Good article, well thought out, etc but the title is very
bad. Jury is still out on impact to his career.

------
i_made_a_booboo
I'm pretty much coming to the end of mine now. Except I feel burnt out from
the sabbatical whereas I generally always felt pretty good at work.

I read a shit tonne this last 8 months and have noticed a big upgrade in my
worldview. I shipped a couple of projects on my own which I'm proud of too.

I grew immensely from the experience and a whole bunch of things I always
toyed with the idea while working I actually got to try out and see how I
really felt about them and not how I thought I was going to feel.

The recruiters being suspicious about the time off thing is something I wasn't
suspecting but I did get that vibe. I made a point to network the whole time I
was taking off and have been invited to visit a small company I'm pretty
excited about after an hour chatting to the CTO. Political savvy was one of my
unexpected skills at my last job, so I feel like so long as I can get in a
room I can get a job (provided I'm actually interested and think the company
would be a good fit).

So many lessons learned. Perhaps both good and bad.

~~~
biscottigelato
I shipped 2 projects that I feel are highly polished. Been almost 3 months in
the job market cuz i have since ran low on funds. Being in Vancouver it's just
extra tough. The Unicorns doesn't care one bit of your side projects. The
smaller guys just doesn't have the resource to relocate. Let alone getting in
the same room with them for interviews (aka. fly you over).

So far very disillusioned. Seems like if the projects didn't become million
dollar businesses, then it's algorithm puzzles or working at McDonalds.
Shipped products doesn't matter one bit...

~~~
i_made_a_booboo
For me it's about creating a personal connection and telling a good story. I
dunno I just have a belief in my ability to do that from past experience.

This is new territory for me though, so we'll see.

I'm not in the US on, so I don't play the whole unicorn game. I imagine that's
a whole different ball game.

~~~
biscottigelato
Unfortunately more and more companies are going the 'we don't care about your
resume, we just want you to do algorithm puzzles'. way. Triplebyte, as listed
on the Hackernews job board, is especially proud that they don't look at your
resume and measure you only on the few things they deem important. Basically
you can be good at a hundred things. But they measure you on ten things and
don't care about any of the others, relevant or not. So if you so happen only
have 6 things out of the 10, you are out, even if you have clearly
demonstrated that you are capable of 100 things, and learning those 100 things
in short order.

I would say I learned more in the 2 years than I did 10 years as a Firmware
Engineer. But if I stayed my course just lurking in my old job I'd have been a
Firmware lead. I can't even get an intermediate development job now...

------
09bjb
Just came here to say that I think protecting your CV at all costs from any
kind of "gap" is some of the most overrated career advice out there. Take
risks, show some self-direction and self-respect. Companies and colleagues
will help you, but only you can steer the ship of your career trajectory.
Follow the currents underneath you at your own risk.

------
meuk
After my graduation, I planned to have some months off to work on hobby stuff,
and build a small portfolio with programming projects. Unfortunately, I wasn't
able to finish my thesis in time (which is my own fault, but at my university
it was also business as usual to take more time than planned for your master
thesis). I already had a job and didn't have any time off between my thesis
and working (in fact, I started working before I even graduated).

I should have spent some more time on job hunting, in retrospect. At my
current job as a consultant I am back-end code-monkeying in a large team where
most developers don't have a technical background - it's not very challenging
from a technical perspective (even though I like the working environment in
other aspects). My current employer pushes me to get certified for some front-
end technologies, which I don't find interesting (and have no value for the
gig I'm currently assigned to).

My true interest are OSes, drivers, optimization, FPGA's, electronics,
compilers, assembly, microcontrollers, graphics... But I can't seem to find a
job in that field, mostly because I don't have work experience in those
fields. I also have a tendency to be very humble about my experience, which I
think is a good thing in general, but I think sometimes people wrongly
classify me as 'very junior'. On top of that, everybody seems to be looking
for C# programmers, but the pay seems to be a bit lower in more technical
fields. I don't care that much about my salary, but right now I am the one
with literally the best background (4 academic studies), and the lowest income
(basically every time I talk about it with someone, he/she goes "hm, that's
pretty low"). I have had some good offers (about 15% more than I currently
earn), but they came with a traineeship which seemed not very challenging and
would force me to stay with that company for 2 years.

A very common scenario I end up in is that I'm talking to a very enthousiastic
HR person ("I think you're a _very_ good fit for our company!"), but the offer
ends up very low ("Well, you're a junior after all.").

I am thinking about quitting my current job to brush up some skills (mainly
Python, Vulkan, OpenGL, and some OS API stuff) and build a portfolio, but I'm
too afraid to be unproductive and end up in a worse situation than before
(about 1 year of working experience and a giant gap in my CV after that). Has
anyone been in a similar situation? Any advice?

~~~
forcedefrappe
This sounds very unfamiliar based on my experience with the US job market, but
does match with some experience of the European one.. Which country are you
in? Maybe that would make for better advice.

~~~
meuk
Good observation. I'm in the Netherlands.

~~~
forcedefrappe
Given that you have a degree, would you consider going to the US for a year or
two of work? While the Bay Area isn't for everyone, in my experience the
environment is very driven by competence as opposed to tenure. For me,
returning to Europe after working there also opened a lot of opportunities.

I also saw you writing that European companies are very driven by specific
technologies. I do not think this is true. Sometimes companies will write "5
years of React" but what they are actually looking for is an experienced
frontend developer.

What you should show is your ability to solve problems and learn
independently. A company that does not believe a skilled frontend developer
can learn another framework quickly (or don't want to give you the time to do
so) is probably not a place you want to work.

~~~
meuk
> Given that you have a degree, would you consider going to the US for a year
> or two of work?

I'd consider it, for the right job. I haven't looked for jobs in the US, and I
would prefer a job in the Netherlands, but it's a possibility.

> I also saw you writing that European companies are very driven by specific
> technologies. I do not think this is true. Sometimes companies will write "5
> years of React" but what they are actually looking for is an experienced
> frontend developer.

Possibly. From my perspective, it is hard to tell the difference, since I
don't have a lot of professional experience.

------
blablabla123
> Project managing my life

Actually I started setting up a Redmine to pursue more complex goals that are
usually not related to work.

In the past I also used classical todo lists on a sheet of paper or Asana for
some time. But I gave up both, what I observed happens after using this 'tool'
after a while: indeed a lot gets done, it's even fulfilling check an item,
especially on paper. So after a year or so, the things on the list end up
being more and more difficult to do. The only easy tasks are the recently
added ones but the list becomes more and more static.

Problem with todo lists is that they are the end product of some ideas that
happen at random times. But you lose the idea behind it, so a proper project
management tool is worth it. (In fact when you look at how Asana developed
over time, it converges into something like that...)

~~~
thomasahle
Redmine seems like a very big tool for just one person though, with issues
trackers and all.

Something like trello seems more the scale.

Personally I just wish it had TeX support. Does anyone know a good, personal
project management tool that allows writing sections in latex?

~~~
thestephen
Have you tried, or considered trying org-mode?

I found that once I got over the hurdle of learning emacs, the friction in
managing tasks once you have learned the tool is nearly nil.

Further, it definitely supports embedded latex fragments, exporting to pdf,
etc.

------
rvn1045
Im doing pretty much the same thing since the beginning of the year. the
absolute biggest thing thats helped me is meditating for 1-2 hours a day. when
you don't have distractions and you have meditated for that long - you get
laser like focus, super clear thinking, and ability to absorb and synthesize
way more information. funny the article mentions self actualization - I did
not start of with that goal in mind and starting to meditate introduced me to
a lot of literature around religion - and you start looking at your life in a
completely different way.

------
octygen
I'll be really honest. I haven't done it ever and I regret it. I AM planning
what I call a monk year now. I also interview people that have done it so I've
been on the other side.

Conclusion: It's really all about a plan first, discipline about the plan's
boundaries and self-confidence when you present your achievements after. Else
you may be viewed as a lazy hedonist.

E.g., My PLAN is to take year to train for an Ironman. That's about 4h a day
on average. I'd also eat well, stretch and keep up with the ancillaries of
such hard training to prevent injuries. Then I'd be studying 4 online courses
à day in whatever I want. My goal would be to finish a few nanodegrees and a
few specializations on Coursera. Courses would be about 5h per day. Every day,
non-stop. At the end, I would have done one Ironman AND add a whole lot of
skill to my arsenal. It's not cheap - calculated it to be about $40K so far
with a mortgage and rent to pay but I'm working on creative ways to lessen
this. Last but not least, I have three non-profit projects I want to do. One
huge dream, one medium, one small. If I went to an interview à year after this
starts having been disciplined enough to accomplish even 75% the above, I'm
pretty sure not even the hardest interviewer would be skeptical.

Basically, I view the monk year as the year where I still grind. But I grind
to add value to yours truly NOT the corporation.

------
ffanon
I've managed to get myself into what some might consider an ideal situation: a
half-time job at BigCo. It means my work at BigCo is more interesting and
condensed, and of course it means I have all the time in the world for side
projects. BigCo total comp is so incredible that half of it still pays the
bills in ExpensiveCity.

Except all the challenges echoed by others in the comments are real:
overcoming procrastination and doing focused work. Actually the former I can
manage, the latter is harder. All I have to show for side project time is a
long list of smaller projects, I can't manage to take one of them and
build/polish it into something significant. Somehow having the choice 100 fun
project makes devoting time to just 1 super hard.

Maybe half-time off to some extend is worse for procrastination than full-
time, since I can always fall back on my work at BigCo as a sign of progress
in my life.

This situation should be ideal, I know the path I should take, the opportunity
is there for the taking, but so far have not managed.

~~~
abakker
Do your side projects have customers? I’ve found that there is no motivator
like someone else’s support tickets or deadlines. Put another way, it is
easier to find motivation when the needs of your project are immediately
helpful to someone else, rather than theoretically helpful. Just a thought.

~~~
ffanon
I can imagine that would motivate, yes, but for me the point of side projects
is to explore things that are less commercial, more researchy.. things BigCo
wouldn't pay me to do. And to do something commercial while at BigCo would
require quite some paperwork for BigCo to agree. And it is not like I need to
be doing commercial work on the side for financial reasons.

------
__exit__
Thanks to the author for this piece, it was a nice and inspiring reading.

I cannot help but feel related to the author himself. My career, short in tech
terms (2+ years at current job, similar durarion at previous job) has reached
a stagnant phase, where motivation and professional growth almost do not
exist.

As a consequence I'm thinking of switching jobs, but have no idea where should
I aim for, for what kind of role and industry I would like to work for...Right
now I'm lost regarding jobs lookup.

Maybe I should take a sabbatical period to think things over, but it's quite a
leap forward, mostly economically.

------
leksak
Reading most of these comments, and the article itself, I can't help but think
that the rat race is just replaced with another race as it seems imperative to
work on something for a lot of you that have written here which I find
curious, even though I can relate and understand it.

At the moment, career wise, om not in a position to go down in hours but that
is what I'll explore in the future. A 6 hour workday, working remotely more
often and/or trying to split my workday up by going to the gym during work
hours. This is tough though with meetings and all that.

------
shurcooL
Nice writeup. It's very valuable that you took the time to share a unique
experience with everyone.

I've also done a 1.5 year sabbatical, and I can relate. It's both very
challenging (to pull off successfully) but also can be very rewarding.

------
desdiv
What do you guys think of the idea of companies giving their employees the
option of taking (up to) one year long unpaid sabbaticals?

It would cost the company next to nothing, and it would be a preferable
alternative to the employee quitting due to stress or burnout.

For the employee it significantly lowers their risk of unemployment. They can
either 1. go to a better company, or 2. return to their old company.

In the case of US companies, there's also the added benefit of the possibility
of the employee and employer coming to a mutually beneficial arrangement on
maintaining the employee's healthcare plan during the sabbatical.

~~~
Puer
In what world would that cost the company "next to nothing"??? That person
isn't going to be working for a year. The company either needs to hire someone
else to replace them, which is an expensive process, or lose the productivity
for that position for a year.

~~~
desdiv
I apologize if my suggestion was stupid. I'm just trying to get a discussion
started here, that's all.

It would cost the company next to nothing, in my view, because the steps the
company has to take is almost exactly the same:

1\. Employee quits. Company immediately looks for a replacement. One year down
the road, when the company is expanding, they have to look for another worker.

2\. Employee goes on sabbatical. Company immediately looks for a replacement.
One year down the road, when the company is expanding, they first contact the
sabbatical guy if they want to come back, and if not they have to look for
another worker.

In scenario 1, the company pays for the cost of two hirings with 100%
certainty. In scenario 2, worst case the company pays for the cost of two
hirings; best case the company only pays for one.

------
ejanus
I have been without job for a while now ,and I won't mind to getting back. It
has not worked out as I would have love.

------
JonasJSchreiber
What you've written is incredibly mature, well-articulated, and insightful. I
hope you succeed in your solo endeavors!

------
curyous
Where does it say it was good for his career?

------
turtlecloud
Ya dude I feel ya. MZ was a sweatshop!

Did the same - took a sabbatical. The main thing is to come up with a cool
story of what you did.

------
lurcio
The right to useful unemployment.

------
JDiculous
Why is everybody so hung up on how it'll affect your career? As if everything
in life must be rationalized by its impact on your career.

Maybe he creates a successful business and never has to work for anyone else
again, maybe not. Either way the author will have had the valuable experience
of not only trying to build a business, but also living life on his own terms
- something that we give up (often without realizing it) when we sell
ourselves to the corporate world.

I'm 10 months into my sabbatical and have spent the last 8 months living in
countries/continents I'd never been to, learned about different cultures,
improved my Spanish (now trying to learn Russian), met a ton of people, and
grown enormously as a person.

Career-wise and financially was this a good decision? Probably not (at this
point at least). But I wouldn't trade any of this for the world. Had I spent
another year living in the same damn city doing the same work that I was bored
to death of, I might've jumped off a bridge or something (not really, but in
hindsight I was depressed without really realizing it).

I will now shift gears towards working on my own project(s). If it works out -
great, I will be living my dream. If it doesn't work out - no problem, I'll
figure it out - even if I have to return to the U.S. and find a job again. On
my deathbed I'm not going to regret taking a year off to travel the world when
I could've spent that year continuing to work a job I was no longer passionate
about.

One of the things I've completely internalized from my travels is that I have
no interest in the corporate rat race. I don't care about "career
ramifications" because that's not a ladder I want to devote my life to
climbing. Last night I hung out with a 21 year old from the hostel who's
making $6k/month from online businesses working 1 hour/day, and has spent the
last 1.5 years living abroad (I never met these kind of people when I was
working my 9-5). That is my dream - not being a tech lead at Google (I don't
need $6k/month either, $1.5k/month and I'm good).

In essence, the sabbatical drove home the point that I had been climbing the
wrong ladder. So even if I have to eventually go back to the job market, I
will be targeting totally different jobs, and my mindset towards work, money,
and life in general is totally different. Before I was living in a permanent
state of delayed gratification, saving money with no clear vision for what I
was saving it for. Now I have a better idea of what I want out of life. Or
maybe I just have more confidence to go out and chase what I want when in the
past I would've simply fantasized about it.

At the end of the day I'd rather try and fail then have lived a safe boring
life slaving away in some job I don't care about being depressed and wishing I
had the balls to live life on my own terms and go after the life I want.

------
acconrad
I'm happy for you but this is a super privileged viewpoint that most people
can't really learn from. I'd be happy too if I could just take a year off and
do whatever I want. Most people can't do things like traveling to different
cities and trying out a new place for 3 months. It's just unrealistic and only
reflects and incredibly tiny population.

More importantly: has it _really_ been the best thing you've done for your
career? It sounds like you've had a great time but we don't know how this
materially affected your career.

What about your sabbatical has made your career better now that you've done
it? All I've seen is that you've open sourced a Hugo theme, read a few books,
and you worked on a side project. Sounds like something plenty of people do
with 40 hour workweeks.

~~~
coldtea
> _I 'm happy for you but this is a super privileged viewpoint that most
> people can't really learn from. I'd be happy too if I could just take a year
> off and do whatever I want. Most people can't do things like traveling to
> different cities and trying out a new place for 3 months._

Most people 18-25 can.

First, tons of people at those ages actively burn tons of money on BS like a
useless college degree (and not even the kind that lands you an actual job).
Not doing anything would be an improvement for them (and cost less).

Second, you can do that with no money at all (tons of people do it on $5 a day
style, or getting some work where they travel to pay for the costs, or just
using one of the several of networks where you can exchange places for free,
etc.). I know lots of people at that age that work for a few months and live
off that for the rest -- and I'm not talking about making a full yearly wage
on those months, they just live on little. When you're young a futon and a few
pieces of stuff will do. (I actually know older people living like that too --
in cultures where not following some career and making do with little is not
considered "white trash" or "hippie", e.g. in the countryside in Europe and so
on).

Also, you seem to be harshly criticizing the author and what he done in this
span, but how are your choices working for you? Not great from what we read in
your comment.

~~~
yzmtf2008
> tons of people do it on $5 a day style

How? That's $150 a month, I'm not sure if you can even _find a place to live_
with that money.

~~~
coldtea
Traveling the world there are several places where $150 a month is more than
the locals make. And even where they aren't, there's things like free-camping,
getting a place with several friends together, and so on.

Even in a first world country with $1500+/month average wage, getting by on
holidays with €150-€200 is something a lot of younger friends do, if anything
because they have to (not many saved from poorly paying and scarce regular
jobs anyway). If you bunch up a few together, or just go camping, it's quite
cheap.

~~~
matwood
The world or south east Asia? Even Eastern Europe is going to be tough on
$5/day.

~~~
coldtea
Asia, Africa, Latin America, even parts of Europe.

For comparison, in Greece there are tons of young (and older) people actually
working full time for ~ €400/month.

(Before the crisis, in say 2006-2010 those were called the "€700 euro
generation" for making around that amount per month, then considered very
low).

Here's a similar case in Spain: "“We’re not mileuristas. We are just poor. I
wish I could earn €1,000, but my generation is earning between €700 and €800 a
month,” he says, adding that he personally takes home around €450 a month for
a 20-hour week, and describes himself as underemployed."

[https://elpais.com/elpais/2015/05/14/inenglish/1431604981_25...](https://elpais.com/elpais/2015/05/14/inenglish/1431604981_253944.html)

