
UK government's battle with Apple over EU citizens app - amaccuish
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46043668
======
addedlovely
Agency: 'Oh yeah that feature is not supported, but don't worry there are
rumours it's coming'

Government: 'Great let's base our whole system on this'

:|

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fredley
Any idea why Apple doesn't allow use of NFC? It's been in devices for ages,
I'm surprise to hear it's not available to developers. Given Apple reviews all
apps anyway, and can restrict what it's used for any way they like, I can't
imagine why they wouldn't allow apps to use it.

~~~
notoverthere
It's really silly – but Apple keep the NFC functionality exclusively for use
by Apple Pay. Whilst it _is_ NFC, Apple have never marketed it as such.
Presumably they want people to think that it's just Apple Pay 'magic'.

~~~
wlesieutre
Not just Apple Pay anymore, they also use it for certain transit cards and
student ID cards. New phones can read tags and launch the appropriate app (via
notification like Camera gives you for QR code reading):
[https://www.macrumors.com/2018/09/12/2018-iphones-
background...](https://www.macrumors.com/2018/09/12/2018-iphones-background-
nfc-tag-reading/)

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willca
> The Home Office has also signed a £91m contract with French company Sopra
> Steria to set up computer terminals at 56 local libraries

Just £1.625 million per library? Does that seem a crazy amount to anyone else?

~~~
jstanley
Also, local to _who_? There aren't 56 points in the UK such that everyone has
a local point for any reasonable definition of "local".

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AJRF
Local as in administered locally and not nationally.

Its astounding you didn't infer that.

~~~
jstanley
Aha, thanks.

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jstanley
So this is a smartphone app because they want to use the NFC in the smartphone
to scan the passport.

Does anyone know how the NFC in a passport works? If it just communicates the
passport number, then it seems like they could allow a fallback where the user
types in the passport number, without any loss of security.

(Because if that is how it works, all you're really proving is knowledge of
the passport number, not possession of the passport)

EDIT: According to this StackOverflow post[0] the NFC reader needs to supply
the passport number, date of birth, and expiry date before it can retrieve
whatever data is on the passport, so it can't work the way I described.

[0] [https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/30772/what-
nfc-...](https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/30772/what-nfc-protocol-
is-used-to-read-information-on-a-passport#30778)

~~~
Rjevski
The passport is a standard NFC smart card, just like your credit card.
Internally it can do crypto, which means it’s not just about a passport number
but cryptographically proving the person is in possession of their passport.

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pjc50
Relatedly on twitter:
[https://twitter.com/JakubKrupa/status/1057665110976663552](https://twitter.com/JakubKrupa/status/1057665110976663552)
downthread

"The most difficult part of the process - confirmation of ID - was not being
done through an automated process: applicants didn't have to use the
controversial app to scan their passports. Of those who voluntarily decided to
use it 30% FAILED."

And as various people have pointed out, unless a deal appears in a really
short timeframe, all 3m EU nationals living in the UK will have to go through
this process in order to continue working or renting in the UK.
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-
politics-46035919](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46035919)

~~~
speeq
Oh, so there will not be a transition period for EU citizens in case of a no-
deal Brexit?

~~~
pjc50
Nobody knows!

Well, the Minister for Immigration said that "new immigration controls -
including employer checks of immigration status - will apply to EU citizens
next year" to the Select Committee, but it's routine for ministerial
statements to be countermanded the next week, so who knows? It's not as if
there are penalties for error or incompetence.

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Tsubasachan
Same reason why Apple isn't compatible with my bank. Apple wants to lock their
NFC chip. And make lots of money with their ridiculous transaction fees in the
process obviously.

Dont blame them, but people will choose Android over it.

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drivingmenuts
She told MPs the Home Office could not be blamed because Apple "won't release
the upgrade we need in order for it to function".

Wrong. The Home Office should have checked with Apple before developing the
app.

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esotericn
This strikes me as an extreme form of premature optimization.

This seems like the sort of thing that should be rolled out to council
offices, the Post Office, somewhere like that (libraries, as stated in the
post).

Or (and!) airports (they already have the infrastructure!).

Let's maybe not spend 1.5 million per device though. That's something like
10-30 software dev salaries, per location. Graft?

~~~
krona
_The Home Office has also signed a £91m contract with French company Sopra
Steria to set up computer terminals at 56 local libraries around the UK to
help those without smartphones, or without the necessary digital skills, to
apply to stay in the UK._

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ed_blackburn
Considering what's a stake for citizens and the govt, one wonders would it
make sense to partner with a commodity hardware manufacturer and split the
cost of the device? Use recyclable parts and encourage people to return them
for a fee?

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pjc50
It needs to be ready and distributed in less than 5 months.

Furthermore, not everyone thinks the Home Office or the government in general
is making a good faith effort to do this competently.

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mathw
The current government is basically incapable of doing anything competently.

This goes double for anything involving IT or negotiating with other
countries.

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hanoz
How about - user completes everything else on their iPhone, app generates a
code, user asks Android owning friend to download companion app:
SaveMyIPhoneOwningEuroFriendsBacon.apk, friend enters code and scans passport?

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sys_64738
I think there’s more chance of the Tory government getting a deal with the EU
for brexit than this!

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theli0nheart
iOS definitely supports NFC for third party apps. Here’s the documentation:

[https://developer.apple.com/documentation/corenfc](https://developer.apple.com/documentation/corenfc)

I just played with the Yubico iOS SDK just the other day and it supports my
Yubikey 5 flawlessly.

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iancarroll
They support a very limited form of NFC, which will most definitely not allow
you to read a passport.

