

No Willy No Woman's Hour - mulquem
http://mulqueeny.wordpress.com/2013/01/24/no-willy-no-womans-hour/
"Men stand up for women" on Radio 4, whilst the BBC refuses to allow tech women on the programme to represent themselves
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josephlord
Background for those not in the UK.

BBC Radio 4 - National speech radio channel with news current affairs, comedy
and drama. Distinctly middle class. News is serious high quality and it is a
serious debate platform for politics.

Women's Hour - Week day mid morning daily 45 minute (if you don't count book
of the week) with a weekend highlight version. It is focussed on a wide range
of issues of concern to women. This includes serious issues like domestic
violence, practical issues, childcare and public policy, and lighter stories
and some equality promoting issues such as women in tech.

Women's Hour podcast: <http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/whnews>

I think Radio4 is globally available online and has some very good content
<http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/> Let me know if you can't access this from
abroad and I will correct this.

Update: And in case anyone is wondering there is a _Men's Hour_ too although
it is on a different station (and unlike Women's Hour I have never listened to
it). I think it is only weekly though.
<http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00t32zg>

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raldi
Thanks, but I'm still having a great deal of trouble following the post. Could
you explain it like I'm five?

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josephlord
I'll have a go but refer to original for definitive version.

Emma Mulqueeny (<http://mulqueeny.wordpress.com/about/>) works on encouraging
children to code in particular girls.

Women's Hour was planning a section about activities to encourage girls to
code and invited Emma to contribute. She was later uninvited.

She then discovered:

1) That both participants would be men, both involved in programming for kids
but only one with particular emphasis in supporting women/girls.

2) The reason she was dropped was that they wanted men.

3) This is Women's Hour and she was dropped for being a woman.

Being turned down for being the wrong gender is not good in any scenario,
being turned down by the Equal Opportunities committed BBC especially on
Women's Hour for being a women has the potential to be quite gutting.

Edit: My speculation:

From the perspective of the Producers every story needs an 'angle' and they
seem to have gone for one about how some men are working to help women into
tech. This may have been decided after the initial invite to Emma Mulqueeny
and led to the invite being withdrawn. I don't know the process for finding
guests but it probably involves junior researchers ringing round lots of
potentially relevant people. At the very least the invite should have been
more tentative and the dropping better handled.

My feeling is that not having a woman both as an example of a woman in tech
and to vouch that there are men helping girls and women into tech would have
strengthened the section but I'm not a radio producer or in the main target
demographic for Women's Hour so offer the view very tentatively. In my first
post I just provided background for those less familiar with Radio 4 but no
comment on the story itself but you have drawn me into expressing a view.

Edit2:

Women on TV and Radio was the topic of BBC Radio 4's Media Show this week:
<http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00dv9hq>

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drucken
BBC Radio 4 - Friday, 25th January 2013. Relevant scheduled content [1]:

 _Male Geeks Rise Up for Women

At present, only 30% of computing jobs are filled by women and when it comes
to the number of female speakers at computer conferences, the figure is much,
much smaller. In an attempt to address this problem, men are now signing an
online pledge to boycott conferences where there are no women on the panel.
But just how effective can this tactic be? Should men be doing more to get
women and girls into computing? And does the problem really lie with
conference organisers or in the fact that just not enough girls are taking
computer studies at school? Jenni talks to Aral Balkan, a web designer, who
has signed the pledge, to 13 year old Amy who loves computer programming and
to Dr Tom Crick, Chair of Computing at School in Wales._

So, the only woman on that panel, including discussing "affirmative" action
like boycotting technical conferences, is a 13 year old girl...

My initial skepticism of an article that seemed to be hastily written in anger
and with no trivial amount of bridge burning has been replaced with
incredulity!

[1] <http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01q0333>

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drtomcrick
This is clearly a contentious issue, but when I spoke to the Women's Hour
producer this morning, they said they specifically wanted a male perspective
on this issue. I did not know that anyone had been bumped or that I was the x
choice guest...!

Therefore, I am keeping an open mind going into the show tomorrow, but I am
very much looking forward to talking about how Computing At School (CAS) is
trying to change the perception of computer science and tech careers in the
UK.

@DrTomCrick

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EvanKelly
It took me a while to parse everything, having no exposure to British radio
and the like, but now I must understand how a lot of non-Americans feel on
sites that lean towards USA-centric discussion.

Relating to the content, there's a strong analogue with a lot of the
congressional testimony regarding women's reproductive health in the USA. The
panel testifying in congress was made up entirely of men, which wasn't a fact
lost by many involved in the discussion.

In some cases, I'd find it appropriate. You would want the foremost
reproductive rights/health spokesman defending you in congress, but when
there's a full panel in congress, not including a single female on the panel
is a curious omission.

In the author's case, it seems incredibly odd to talk about women in tech,
without actually including a woman in tech. And what seemed even more bizarre
to me, was that it was a conscious decision on a program entitled "Woman's
Hour"

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enra
I guess most of the time the program features women, but now the editor wanted
men for this. Sometimes media want to interview women, sometimes men,
sometimes both.

I co-founded a program/organization to help women to get in to tech (which
then spread globally). Wired UK did an interview, but the editor only wanted
women for interview and the photos, so I was excluded as a man.

I was happy enough that they were interested about the subject which more
important. I didn't need to get offended or call anyone anything.

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DanBC
Woman's Hour is one of the better bits of daytime Radio 4. It's far better
than the godawful You & Yours.

Both Woman's Hour and Feedback will welcome emails about this.

There's currently discussion about the amount of male speakers on radio 4
programmes. I think iPM had something about it this week.

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zarify
Speaking as a willy-enabled educator, getting male viewpoints on getting more
girls into tech would actually be pretty valuable. I just spent a couple of
weeks in another state talking to women who were involved with evangelising
tech to girls, but I feel that their approach wouldn't be as successful for
me. This is one of the things that I want to focus on in the future; we have
so many smart girls coming through in the math and science areas that tech
could be really good for, even if it wasn't their main focus.

Also, "pink data" - jebus.

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vickytnz
If you look at who was speaking, the man who was trying to evangelise tech was
a good example of that. In that respect, having a woman who was evangelising
would be a good counterpoint. I'm not entirely sure of the point of the angle
of a guy who didn't believe it was a problem was though, given there's an
obvious gap still there. Concession: I haven't listened to the interview as of
yet. I know they did have a young girl programmer who spoke too, but it was a
pre-recorded bit, so didn't have any interaction.

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joesb
So she was pissed that the organizer wants to make room for two men for the
talk.

Should a male speaker be pissed too if he were the one that got kicked out
because organizer wanted to make room for a women?

Seems like the author wants organizer to consider her gender only when it
means that she will benefit from it.

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tibetanpopstar
It's always amusing to read the reactions when people that advocate for
affirmative action find themselves on the wrong end of it. Hmm.

