
Neanderthal gene linked to increased pain sensitivity - Hooke
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02202-x
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1_over_n
It would be interesting to see if this gene is more prevelent in those who end
up as opiate abuse abuse addicts at a population level.

~~~
Duller-Finite
Why are people so keen to look for genetic explanations, rather than
socioeconomic ones?

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hentrep
Would there not be value in pre-screening patients for SCN9A mutations to
predict an increased risk of pain killer addiction? Socioeconomic factors play
as role as well, but it doesn't to be so black and white.

~~~
ceejayoz
> Would there not be value in pre-screening patients for SCN9A mutations to
> predict an increased risk of pain killer addiction?

Dangers, too. Legitimate pain patients already frequently have to drop through
an onerous set of hoops for opiates, and the medical system isn't always good
at teasing out "increased risk" from "unacceptable risk". (For example:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rofecoxib](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rofecoxib),
aka Vioxx)

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h0l0cube
> Researchers have access to only a few Neanderthal genomes, and most of those
> have been sequenced at a low resolution. This has made it hard to identify
> mutations that evolved after their lineage split from that of humans some
> 500,000–750,000 years ago. But in the past few years, Pääbo and his team
> have generated three high-quality Neanderthal genomes from DNA found in
> caves in Croatia and Russia.

Can anyone with domain knowledge chime in on this?

Is the sample set of genomes enough to suggest these mutations were prevalent
in the neanderthal population? And even so, might they have had a completely
different effect on neanderthal physiology?

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bencollier49
I wonder how neanderthal genetics varied from locality to locality. Presumably
those in Russia were somewhat different to those in e.g. Gibralter.

~~~
dahfizz
My understanding is that Neanderthals didn't occupy that large of a region.
There are ancient human ancestors all over the globe but actual Homo
neanderthalensis did not leave modern day Europe.

It is actually thought that this could have contributed to their decline.
Compare with modern day humans who explored the whole globe: some ancient dude
even paddled his way to Australia! It's hard for a species that widespread to
go extinct.

~~~
dalbasal
Homo Neanderthalis has been found in europe, the middle east, the altai
mountains, armenia and other places. The were widespread, and interbred with
sapiens, denisovans and probably other types.

There is even renewed interest in finding American and/or Australian
neanderthals and denisovans... As the known range has grown, those seem more
plausible.

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praveen9920
It's known fact that pain has evolutionary advantage but I wonder how could
degree of pain has different kind of genetic advantage?

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treeman79
Having spent a few years in horrific agony due to poisoning. I suspect it
could be along the long the likes of.

Let’s do the opposite of whatever that guy does.

That guy is moaning for months after fisticuffs with a lion. Let’s try a long
stick instead.

That guy slept with girls of that tribe. And his parts burn like crazy. Let’s
be monogamous.

That guy eats donuts all day, and every step is agony. Maybe veggies aren’t so
bad.

~~~
praveen9920
This could be achieved by binary way of pain. Feeling pain or Not feeling
pain. Degree of pain may not have any effect on the above scenarios. right?

~~~
treeman79
There is stubbing your toe pain. Watching kids, this does not stop repeat
behavior.

Then there is pain that is all you can do to not jump off a cliff to end it.
This, tends to change personal behavior.

Then there is pain that is slightly less then jump off a cliff. But it goes on
for months, non stop, making every moment a horrible experience. This has a
huge impact on all those around you. Some pity you, some try and help, some
wish you would die already. Most avoid you.

Degree makes a massive difference. Wish it was otherwise.

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mouzogu
I wonder if that implies that neanderthals had greater pain sensitivity in
general.

Pure speculation but it would be interesting if that was related to the
apparent harshness and difficulty of life at the time. Perhaps it was
something selected for survival.

~~~
varjag
They didn't survive, so not sure what that says.

~~~
dividedbyzero
While they didn't survive until today, they did survive for far longer than we
have so far managed to, and in incredibly hostile conditions for the most
part, which in itself is an enormous feat and makes you wonder, how did they
do it?

They also never completely vanished; I have a number Neanderthal-specific
alleles (more than most), as have pretty much all people of not exclusively
subsaharan descent, and these alleles seem to have some pretty profound
effects, some of them quite negative. That may be because these alleles
evolved to work in concert with others that we haven't inherited, or for some
other reason, but that would be quite valuable knowledge for a huge lot of
people.

Besides, they're also a fascinating part of our collective history. They
apparently had a unique and rich culture of their own; they are thought to
have produced works of art before we even arrived in Europe[0] and they built
pretty big structures out of stalagmites that appear to have no obvious
practical purpose, in Bruniquel cave[1], about 176,000 years ago; by
comparison, our ancestors seem to have started doing comparable things only
~60-50ka ago.

[0]
[https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-02357-8](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-02357-8)
[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruniquel_Cave](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruniquel_Cave)

~~~
elliekelly
> They also never completely vanished; I have a number Neanderthal-specific
> alleles (more than most), as have pretty much all people of not exclusively
> subsaharan descent, and these alleles seem to have some pretty profound
> effects, some of them quite negative.

Can you elaborate? What kind of effects?

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bpodgursky
It's interesting that the article doesn't point out that red-haired
individuals also feel more pain... and Neanderthals also likely had red hair.

~~~
ComputerGuru
I didn't know about their feeling more pain, but I know they require higher
doses of anesthetic to knock them out for surgery (as in, anesthesiologists
are taught this as a matter or course).

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EdwardDiego
I wish dentists were, I (as a proud ginger man) have had to explain carefully
that I'll need more local to several dentists, a few of whom didn't believe
me.

We're also apparently less sensitive to electrical pain than others, so can we
call that a superpower?

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pedro1976
If you are interested in the research of "ancient dna", this is a very nice
episode on that topic [https://after-on.com/episodes-31-60/034](https://after-
on.com/episodes-31-60/034)

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postit
Now I understand why the only drug prescribed after an open chest surgery in
Germany was ibuprofen.

~~~
mkl
What do you mean? Because 0.4% of British people have this gene?

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nomoreusernames
i wonder if that somehow is connected to the huge neuro diversity we see in
the expression of the neurotransmitters. and the huge range of different types
of intelligence. very cool. thanks for sharing.

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wfbarks
It brings me great pain that this website is down

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pieter_mj
Quit being a Neanderthal wuss

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11235813213455
> In any case, “pain is something adaptive”, points out Zeberg. “It’s not
> specifically bad to feel pain.”

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nickgrosvenor
I do not have this gene

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anon354
Ironically, given that people of African descent have the least Neanderthal
DNA, this study actually bolsters a supposedly discredited, baseless
stereotype that they are less sensitive to pain:

>
> [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4843483/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4843483/)

~~~
vanderZwan
"People of African descent" have the highest genetic diversity among all human
subgroups. That fact alone makes making generalizations based on supposed
genetic make-up preposterous.

Also, you have to be absurdly blind to the history of scientific racism to not
understand that the stereotype of being less sensitive to pain has a
historical origin in justifying abusing slaves by dehumanizing them.

~~~
krona
_" People of African descent" have the highest genetic diversity among all
human subgroups._

Isn't that a truism? All humans are of African descent.

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Jaruzel
I am NOT approaching this from any kind of racial stereotyping, but merely
from a genetic point of view, but reading the article I had the same thought.

I had previously understood, that native domestic sub-Saharan Africans (i.e.
those living on the continent, with clear African based heritage) did not have
any Neanderthal DNA, as Neanderthals were further down the evolutionary line
of the first emigration out of Africa, and were primarily European based.
Therefore those with purely African genetic history would never had interbred
with them.

Is this still true, or have I been walking around with a massive
misunderstanding here?

As a footnote, We need to still be able to ask these questions without being
afraid of the racism response. We are _all_ different, we should embrace that
and not let it affect scientific discussion or discovery.

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mkl
As is usually the case, reality is to messy for simple explanations like this
to be completely correct. Europe and Africa are pretty close, so there has
been a lot of migration to and fro, some of it bringing Neanderthal DNA into
Africa: [https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/africans-carry-
surpr...](https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/africans-carry-surprising-
amount-neanderthal-dna)

~~~
NotableAlamode
From the quoted article:

\- _" modern Europeans and East Asians apparently inherited about 2% of their
DNA from Neanderthals"_

\- _" African individuals on average had [...] more Neanderthal DNA than
previously thought—about [...] 0.3% of their genome."_

So the article seems to confirm a 10x difference in Neanderthals DNA, which
might be significant. It's also unclear what they mean by "Africans, did the
same include, e.g. Egyptians of Greek descent?

