
Google’s sync changes are going to screw Gmail users on Windows Phone - petrel
http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2012/12/15/googles-sync-changes-are-going-to-screw-gmail-users-on-windows-phone/?utm_source=HackerNews&utm_medium=share%2Bbutton&utm_content=Google%E2%80%99s%20sync%20changes%20are%20going%20to%20screw%20Gmail%20users%20on%20Windows%20Phone&utm_campaign=social%2Bmedia
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mtgx
First off, Microsoft can fix this problem themselves, by supporting standards
such as CalDAV and CardDAV. Microsoft is still very poor at supporting open
standards over their proprietary ones. That needs to change for their own
users sake, because Microsoft is not the only game in town anymore, and they
can't seriously expect Google and Apple to pay them for the privilege of using
their own proprietary stuff in the future, when they can use their own.

Second, WP has like 2-3% market share globally. Would you expect Google to
support IE6 if it had a 2% market share? Google actually stopped supporting
IE6 when it had 20%.

~~~
kenjackson
They just need to support EAS in their consumer stack. Google does support it
and will continue to in enterprise. There's virtually no cost to them to
support it on their consumer service. This is an attack against their Windows
customers, not a cost cutting measure.

Google doesn't want us on their service. I'll comply.

~~~
isaacwaller
I think there is a lot of cost to Google, they must pay for Exchange licences.
I highly doubt that Google did this to cut off Windows Phone users,
traditionally Google makes their services available to as many platforms as
possible.

~~~
saurik
Yeah, another interpretation of this (and to be clear: I'm not saying that
this is the case; just that it also fits the data we have) is that Microsoft
has made the terms of an upcoming license renewal worse now that they have a
more reasonable competitor to Gmail, thinking that they can use this to win
back some of what are arguably their own customers.

~~~
3825
>arguably their own customers

I use an Android phone but I wouldn't label myself as just a Google customer

~~~
saurik
I did say "arguably" (and I can't stress that enough: if you were Microsoft,
wouldn't you feel like these are your customers? it doesn't really matter what
the customers think); that said, if your purchase was affected by the fact
that the device came with the Market and other Google-branded apps that Google
only offers to manufacturers as part of a licensing program, then you are at
least indirectly their customer.

Also, it should be noted that many of the people who need Exchange sync
support are also doing so because they have an iPhone (where Google at least
used to recommend you use the Exchange protocol to access Gmail instead of
Apple's Gmail profile, as it allowed more content to synchronize; maybe Apple
fixed this) or want the extended synchronization to work in clients like
Outlook.

It just feels somewhat weird that Google /chose/ to do this, given the
importance they ascribe to getting the most out of tools like Outlook that
some Gmail users really want to access all of their content with: it doesn't
really screw Microsoft very much as most normal people aren't tied to their
e-mail address (like us techy people are)... it mostly helps Microsoft's
Outlook.com service.

~~~
3825
I know exactly one person who owns a Windows Phone 8 device (the 920). I can
see where he is coming from because he is our SharePoint guy.

------
duaneb
> Apple and Google both support CalDAV and CardDAV natively, but Microsoft
> doesn’t support either.

Sounds like Microsoft's problem, not Google's. This is what Microsoft gets for
not supporting existing open standards. In any case, surely they support IMAP?
This seems like it affects google calendar/contacts and not gmail.

EDIT: I guess IMAP doesn't have push notifications, but that's hardly a
crucial feature.

~~~
Negitivefrags
Push is the most crucial feature.

Because my device is already registered, I can continue to use exchange sync,
but if it wasn't then I can say goodbye to using email for monitoring
notifications.

If my site goes offline, I don't want to know in 5 minutes. I want to know
right now.

~~~
duaneb
> If my site goes offline, I don't want to know in 5 minutes. I want to know
> right now.

Sure- this isn't exactly the usual case, though, and if you require that,
maybe you shouldn't use the free gmail account to get it. Most people just
call when there are actual emergencies.

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ghshephard
That should be "screw gmail _consumer_ users on _new_ windows phones" -
existing consumer users, and all current and future
business/government/educations users don't appear to be impacted.

From the original post: <http://googleblog.blogspot.ca/2012/12/winter-
cleaning.html>

"Google Sync was designed to allow access to Google Mail, Calendar and
Contacts via the Microsoft Exchange ActiveSync® protocol... Starting January
30, 2013, consumers won't be able to set up new devices using Google Sync;
however, existing Google Sync connections will continue to function. Google
Sync will continue to be fully supported for Google Apps for Business,
Government and Education. Users of those products are unaffected by this
announcement."

------
eknkc
CardDAV and CalDAV are not really good replacements to EAS. And IMAP is really
pathetic. I'm on board with open standards, but if the proprietary one is
better, then I'd like to use it.

Google's just using the "open" argument to screw people. If it's related to
"open standards being better", drop EAS support on business accounts too.
That'd be a commitment. This is just a chess move to drive the market to their
direction.

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rocky1138
CardDAV and CalDAV are open standards, no? Sounds like it's Microsoft's turn
to step up to the plate.

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stanleydrew
"... Windows Phone users can choose to set up IMAP for Gmail, but this won’t
support push mail. That renders the connection useless."

This is so incredibly hyperbolic. You still get mail right? Just after a
minute instead of "instantly." If you need real-time communication pick up the
phone or use a chat client.

~~~
meaty
This a million times. I just tried it on my WP7 device and to be honest I
can't tell the difference between this and my exchange account.

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freehunter
Well, looks like I'll be switching to Outlook.com fully. I've been using it
with my Gmail pushed to it for a while now, but I've often found myself
wondering why I should be routing through Gmail in the first place. Without
the ability to sync directly to my phone in the future, why bother? Its just
really sucks having to bounce from service to service every few years because
the boys can't play nice.

~~~
esolyt
I don't understand why you think Google should support Microsoft's proprietary
protocol rather than Microsoft supporting open protocols.

~~~
kenjackson
What open standard? IMAP? There is no adequate mail open standard.

~~~
duskwuff
IMAP is quite adequate. It's imperfect, but it's open and it's extensible. The
same can't be said of ActiveSync.

------
edandersen
This might have something to do with Office 2013 supporting Exchange
ActiveSync connections. My first thought was "awesome, Outlook
calendar/contacts/mail push support without having to pay for Google Apps for
business to use the Outlook Sync connector!". Google probably saw this as an
attack on their business model.

------
tlrobinson
Or: Microsoft is screwing their customers by not supporting open standard
protocols.

------
kefs
More info on CalDAV & CardDav (both standards)

<http://caldav.calconnect.org/standards.html>

<http://carddav.calconnect.org/standards.html>

------
kefs
Situation seems to also affect Windows 8, RT, and Office..

[http://www.zdnet.com/gmail-loses-google-sync-how-
windows-8-r...](http://www.zdnet.com/gmail-loses-google-sync-how-windows-8-rt-
office-are-affected-7000008846/)

------
kenjackson
I've been delaying my migration off of Gmail. Google just accelerated it
considering I'm moving all of my machines and family/friend machines in the
next few months to Win8. Depending on how easy my final migration turns out to
be, I may move everyone.

Thanks Google for the forced motivation.

~~~
mtgx
If you want to live in a more closed proprietary ecosystem, that's your
choice. Google is trying to get their users as far away as possible from that
kind of closed world.

~~~
eunice
trying to get their users onto proprietary gmail apps / webmail where they can
eventually ramp up the advertising & personal information harvestry

------
jinushaun
Doesn't this screw over iPhones users too? I'm currently using EAS with my
free Google Apps account in order to get mail, contacts and calendar. Mail is
easy through IMAP, but calendar and contacts are difficult to do otherwise, at
least last I tried it in 2008. (Unless Google or Apple changed how those
things work on the iPhone recently)

With the recent Google Apps announcement and this, looks like the bean
counters have taken over at Google.

------
bosch
I stopped using Google's products when I realized how much they tracked
everyone. It's pretty weird not knowing what information they have about
everyone and the fact that everyone is OK with that.

This is clearly a move to try to ensure that the Windows Phone market share
doesn't grow. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out and if Microsoft
can get people to switch to Outlook.com instead of Gmail.

------
mikehc
Why is everybody saying that they will only screw Gmail users on Windows
Phone? As an iPhone user they will screw me too, because I will not longer
have push if I use the Mail.app. The alternative is using the Gmail app of
course, but that will only lock up users.

How much time until they announce that ALL the current users won't have this
feature anymore?

------
trentmb
Google really should think about the majority of their freeloading users when
they do things like this!

... wait a moment...

~~~
eunice
Nobody is freeloading.

Again:

People pay for Google's consumer offerings with personal information.

~~~
halviti
I'm guessing you made this account because you know how stupid your ideas are.

It's a free service. People who offer free services owe you nothing. Your
sense of entitlement is sorely misplaced.

Google has to pay Microsoft actual money for Active Sync. If this is not
economically viable, then they can't continue paying money out of their own
pocket for you to freeload.

Your offering of personal information is just not paying the bills, sorry.

~~~
bosch
I'm guessing you're either young or ignorant, so let me explain to you how it
works with any Google product. I'll use Gmail as an example:

1) You sign up for Gmail

2) Google starts data mining all of your e-mail, scouring it for any type of
keywords as well as using algorithms to determine your age, gender, sexuality,
married, location, if you like Mac or PC, what mobile phone you have, what
diseases you may have, etc... Remember this is on a HUGE scale and they can
easily uniquely identify you using many methods.

3) Remember, that if you leave yourself logged in and then go to do a search
on Google, they log that information too, they also log the information from
you on YouTube or any other of their properties.

4) They now have all this information and they track you using cookies. So
when you get to a site that uses Adwords or Double Click Google has a VERY
good idea about what type of ads to place on that page to entice you to click
on one of them.

5) Profit

Unfortunately, there's quite a large number of people out there who don't know
what Google's doing. Just so you know the personal information IS paying the
bills in a HUGE way. Google gets > 90% of all revenue from advertising. You
seem to fall into that group. Please educate yourself and also try not to call
people stupid as sometimes you MIGHT be wrong yourself.

Also, just so you know, the reason that Google is stopping EAS for personal
Gmail accounts is to attempt to cripple the Windows Phone before it has a
chance to take off. It's a shrewd business move and once again, it has nothing
to do with economics.

~~~
Ironlink
> Also, just so you know, the reason that Google is stopping EAS for personal
> Gmail accounts is to attempt to cripple the Windows Phone before it has a
> chance to take off. It's a shrewd business move and once again, it has
> nothing to do with economics.

Got a source for that statement? For all we know, this could be related to the
lawsuit following Motorola and Microsoft not being able to agree on the per-
phone fee for ActiveSync. If the ActiveSync servers require a license per
connected user (Client Access License), that would certainly seem like a valid
cause for this decision.

