
What happened when the CEO of a Boston burrito chain became an Uber driver - rajbala
http://www.boston.com/business/technology/innoeco/2014/02/what_happened_when_a_boston_en.html
======
incision
Interesting.

He drives his Jeep, falls to a 4.3 rating and is about to get released from
the service. He starts driving his Tesla, finds that passengers start treating
him as an equal and give him a perfect 5.0 every time.

Somehow that's not at all surprising and disappointing at the same time.

~~~
mindslight
In general, rating systems where the top vote is the "normal" vote are fucked
up. There's always noise in how each party perceives the transaction. As the
supplier, the only thing you can do is kiss the ass of everyone in hopes of
placating the overly negative ones. And as a buyer, you're unable to reward
truly above-and-beyond service.

~~~
alonmower
Totally agreed. I also think Uber should be slightly more explicit in their
ratings screen (e.g. Bad Experience, Good Experience, Exceptional Experience)

If someone has a problem with a ride, the only thing they really care about is
letting Uber know that the ride was terrible (I bet the rating distribution
clusters heavily around 1, 4 and 5 stars).

Looking at passenger rating histories should also play a role in how these are
interpreted (if someone is an asshole and rates tons of drivers poorly even if
they're well liked, that should be discounted)

By doing something like this, you have a way of weeding out bad drivers,
rewarding great drivers, and leaving everyone in the middle alone.

~~~
ultrasaurus
Sidecar does something like this, They ask if it was bad, good or exceptional.
If you say good, they ask what could've been improved -- and I usually find
myself selecting "nothing in particular"

That gives a very accurate picture of the driver. It's cool that sometimes my
sidecar driver gives me candy and tells jokes, but that's not why I use the
service.

~~~
theorique
I wonder what "exceptional" even means?

I expect a driver to get me from A to B, and notice whether I'm interested in
talking (in which case talk and be friendly) or not interested in talking (in
which case don't talk please).

A half-pint of water is nice but hardly necessary - it won't convert a
horrible ride into a great one, and its absence doesn't make a great ride a
bad one.

So much is outside the control of the driver - a late night drive with no
traffic is generally more pleasant than a sluggish rush-hour drive, but it's
not the driver's fault.

~~~
oostevo
An example of an exceptional driver:

I once took a longer Uber Black ride to pick up my wife a few towns away, who
was quite sick. Once I mentioned this to the driver, he drove noticeably more
'efficiently', offered me his phone to call to check on her once mine had
died, and waited outside the building briefly to make sure everything was ok.

Also, I've got a bit of prior race driving experience, and this guy clearly
grokked car control. I wouldn't be surprised if he'd spent a good bit of time
on a track. He also, without drawing any attention to it in any way, adjusted
the suspension settings from 'firm' when we were going around on- and off-
ramps to comfort on the highway, to keep the ride comfortable and level.

I gave him a five-star rating and sent Uber customer support an email raving
about him. Wish I could have done more.

~~~
theorique
Excellent example.

I think it this case you did it right with a letter to customer service.

When the "expectation" is a 4/5 star rating, then the average is generally
4.6-4.7 stars and there's no way to distinguish "normal, good service" from
truly "above and beyond".

Additionally, if the "above and beyond" just gains a 5 star review, that
doesn't really give the feedback needed for extraordinary service.

------
jellicle
So let's do the math. $21/hour for 7 hours, $150/day, gross.

I found some estimates online that a taxi driver might drive about 150 miles
per day. Let's say 125 since this was sort of a short day. The IRS mileage
allowance is 56 cents per mile - this is supposed to be an "all-in" number
that includes all of the costs of owning and operating a vehicle. So that's
$70/day for vehicle costs which the operator will have to pay - fuel, repairs,
tires, whatever.

So we'll knock that $150 down to $80. So he's earning around $12/hour, before
taxes, doing one of the more dangerous professions (cab driver is more
dangerous than police officer, for example), and he's doing it completely
uninsured - if he cracks up that Tesla during an Uber trip his insurer is not
going to pay out on it. If the Tesla is stolen during an Uber trip his insurer
is not going to pay out on it. If he has one accident, ever, he'll lose more
than he could ever earn from a lifetime of working for Uber.

> 1\. Never, ever try to call Uber with problems… because they don’t even have
> phones and there is very little if any reason to talk to them.

And Uber won't even pick up the phone to talk to drivers.

~~~
patrickg_zill
It doesn't cost $70 per day to go 125 miles in a city. Otherwise my car with
59000 miles would have already costed me $33K in all expenses. It hasn't.

Further, this is what the IRS allows you to DEDUCT. So his taxable income is
reduced by the 56 cents per mile - to the extent that his costs are less than
56 cents per mile, he is making more due to the tax-advantaged nature.

Also, at the end of the first year he can elect to either use per-mile
deduction, or, the MACRS method, which may or may not give him an advantage
(but he has to choose and use one or the other for subsequent tax years).

~~~
cko
> It doesn't cost $70 per day to go 125 miles in a city. Otherwise my car with
> 59000 miles would have already costed me $33K in all expenses. It hasn't.

But remember to factor in depreciation and wear and tear on the car, in
addition to all the gas and repair costs. If you're driving an old Toyota
Yaris it'll be much less than 56 cents per mile. If it's a brand-new Mercedes
S-Class you've financed, it's probably going to be more.

------
vm
"it feels really productive to take my kids to school and get paid to drive
home"

Drivers using Uber to fill free time or excess capacity is a radical shift
away from how Uber started, with professional drivers using it to make a
living. A friend of mine does this with Lyft. Imagine how many cars are on the
road right now with only one driver and the rest of the seats empty. Lots of
potential new drivers...

~~~
rdl
UberX is actually about 20% cheaper than Lyft, although I think TaskRabbit
rides still are often the cheapest (although by far the least convenient).

~~~
drewvolpe
What's that based on ?

I use both Uber and Lyft frequently and, for me, Lyft has been always cheaper
for the same trips.

~~~
rdl
UberX intentionally set their rates (recently) below Uber, at least in SF.
Uber has 5 different tiers of car.

~~~
rdl
(er, I meant UberX set their rates below _Lyft_ , in case that wasn't
obvious.)

------
marvin
I'm curious about the no-remorse, humans-are-replacable ethos which is evident
through the author's description of the recruitment process. I see this time
and time again in stories about software startups, and it really gives me a
queasy feeling. It does not make life at a startup company seem very inviting.

~~~
SomeCallMeTim
I don't see that at all. It's not that humans are replaceable as much as the
fact that each driver's performance (and corresponding rating) is crucial to
their continued employment.

I have no problem with that at all given the fact that Uber's _image_ and
_product_ both rely on having good customer experiences.

If Uber were more concerned with providing a living to its employees, then
they likely wouldn't last very long as a profitable business. $21/hour is a
fair wage (a living wage in most locations, in fact), and that's all they
really need to provide to be good corporate citizens.

Not to mention the "people are interchangeable" concept actually dates back to
at least the Industrial Revolution, and is not only not limited to startups,
but is probably _less_ prevalent in startups than in manufacturing or
corporate jobs in general. So I'm not sure what you're complaining about.

~~~
marvin
What's even more unsettling than the fact that many companies have this
attitude towards their employees, is the degree to which members of HN
unquestioningly defend this practice whenever the subject comes up. As long as
only Uber does this, there really isn't a problem. But it _will_ be a problem
if it happens everywhere.

I am not saying that this is a black-and-white thing. There are certainly
nuances here, and in a purely economic sense, humans _are_ often
interchangable. The problem starts when this attitude uncompromisingly becomes
part of how companies (read: people) do business. A purely utilitarian,
"amoral", selfish attitude to the world has bad ramifications if widely
adopted.

Keep in mind that giving the boot to everyone below a 4.3 average rating means
that if only one out of three customers conclude that your service was
_perfect_ , you will have your contract cancelled with no warning. It's easy
enough to say "just have perfect performance, or otherwise just get another
job" when you have a 5-year STEM education, grew up in a happy family and
don't suffer from any serious condition or illness.

But not everyone has it this easy. If this is the future of employment, there
need to be simpler options for people who can't perform significantly better
than "average" most of the time. You might be safe in your software
development job since you can't easily be replaced, so you boss won't fire you
if, say, you go through a really messy breakup and perform at 50% capacity for
six months. _Everyone_ in an uncompromising performance-measured job will be
canned under such circumstances. And having a tough time is something that
_all people_ experience once in a while.

As long as everyone could have their basic needs met when unemployed: Sure,
make whatever labor structure is the most efficient. Otherwise, there needs to
be a certain degree of compromise.

~~~
goodcanadian
You raise some interesting points. As an employer, do I have a moral
obligation to help an under performing employee through a bad period? Many,
though not all, would say, "yes."

Let me rephrase the question. Do I have a moral obligation to pay said
employee more than the current value he is providing to me? Now, most
economists would say, "No," though there may be an argument about the present
value of what the employee can provide me with in the future, perhaps in terms
of special skills or increased loyalty.

Now, let me rephrase one last time. What if the cost of supporting this
employee is make or break for my business? What if it is not just the under
performing employee, but several others who would lose their jobs? What then
is my moral obligation?

~~~
nhaehnle
_Do I have a moral obligation to pay said employee more than the current value
he is providing to me? Now, most economists would say, "No,"_

I seriously doubt that. After having gotten to know some actual economists
(you know, academics; not the ones who pretend to know about economics on TV)
I have learned that most of them are actually quite different from the "hooray
free markets all the way" stereotype.

In fact, I would bet that _most_ of them will say that you do have a _moral_
obligation, and _many_ (perhaps _most_ ) will say that it also makes economic
sense to help an under-performing employee through a bad period. Real
economists don't emphasize the short term.

~~~
viscanti
I think what's lost here is that they're really more of a market place. It's
similar to arguing that ebay has a moral obligation to make sure that people
selling things there make enough per hour. I'm not sure I'd agree with that.

It's not that Uber is paying $21 an hour. It's that they're allowing the
driver to go on and be matched with people who want that service. It might
average out to $21 an hour for some set of hours (I imagine it's higher on the
weekends and lower at low peak times). The fact you can back out dollars per
hour from someone providing services on a marketplace doesn't really change
things.

------
Avitas
I wonder what happens when his Tesla gets t-boned by a pickup truck, they guy
speeds off and he has to claim it on his insurance. His insurance finds out
he's driving for Uber and then...

~~~
Karunamon
I'd imagine the same thing that happens to people who work for the average
delivery food place (i.e. most don't mark it a work vehicle for insurance
purposes either) and get into an accident.

I'd hardly call Uber immoral for this. It's up to each person to square up
with their insurance company.

~~~
HarryHirsch
What's happening here is that Uber and your favorite pizza taxi are littering.
They _know_ that a fair share of their drivers do not carry a commercial
liability policy.

When an Uber driver has an accident, the next thing that will happen is that
their insurance denies the claim, and you have to claim against your uninsured
motorist policy. Good luck to anyone who doesn't have such a policy because
they don't own a car!

Hey, uninsured motorist rates just went up! I wish they didn't do that, and
instead Uber fares and pizza prices went up because I don't use them. They
have no business imposing externalities on me.

~~~
Karunamon
>Hey, uninsured motorist rates just went up! I wish they didn't do that, and
instead Uber fares and pizza prices went up because I don't use them. They
have no business imposing externalities on me.

Indeed. If someone drives in such a way as to be uninsured, shame on them.

Still not the company's fault for the individual's lack of responsibility.

~~~
rodgerd
Their business model is predicated on externalising many of the costs forced
on taxi drivers. Claiming they have no responsibility for crafting and
operating a business model that's designed to socalise costs is horseshit.

~~~
dnautics
if the costs are 'forced' on taxi drivers, how do you know that they are not
more than than the actual external costs?

And take it with a grain of salt, since it's internal PR, but:

[http://blog.lyft.com/post/75739276230/introducing-
the-p2p-ri...](http://blog.lyft.com/post/75739276230/introducing-
the-p2p-rideshare-insurance-coalition)

------
fleshweasel
It sounds like Uber's business model is essentially in sidestepping the
consumer protections that exist for conventional private driver and taxi
companies. It reminds me of how credit card companies and PayPal sidestep
consumer protections created for banks.

~~~
dnautics
what consumer protections? I drive for lyft, and a large portion of the
clientele is the GLBT community, who have stopped taking taxis because finally
there is an alternative to being harassed and mistreated by the driver on
account of their sexuality.

~~~
fleshweasel
It's terrible that some taxi drivers are homophobic but it really does not
change where uber is accountable.
[http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/01/27/uber-and-a-
childs-d...](http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/01/27/uber-and-a-childs-
death/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=1) They have an
obligation to society to not send out uninsured drivers who are distracted
with their phones. This is a very profitable company and they are very capable
of doing at least the former. I'm not sure how the latter problem could be
solved except perhaps to demand that drivers pull over to receive requests
through the app or whatever. [http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/04/leaked-uber-
numbers-which-w...](http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/04/leaked-uber-numbers-
which-weve-confirmed-point-to-over-1b-gross-revenue-213m-revenue/) The CEO
unironically had Ayn Rand as his Twitter picture. I don't need more evidence
than that to know somebody's a douchebag.

------
tomkinson
This is the kind of guy you want to be your CEO. Someone who doesn't spend
their time shopping for the best suit or glad handing unnecessarily.

For those in the hunt for a CEO, take note here. Curiosity, exploration, not
afraid to get dirty, a desire to understand and learn. Well done.

~~~
vitd
He's also the kind of CEO who thinks it's great that there's absolutely no
real recourse for drivers or customers when something goes wrong. If you work
for him, be prepared for it to be a one-way street.

~~~
seabird37
Actually, this is the kind of CEO I was... if truly interested
[http://bit.ly/tyjohnpepper](http://bit.ly/tyjohnpepper)

------
jsmeaton
>What happened when Boloco founder John Pepper became an Uber driver

This kind of article title is really starting to piss me off. Especially for
this particular article where nothing "happened". It's just a QA with a new
driver.

