
Scientists Fear Visa Trouble Will Drive Foreign Students Away - peter123
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/03/science/03visa.html
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thepanister
Why there are students who are sad or angry just because their visas were
"delayed"?

I am Stanford summer student for 2008, and I was not even granted the visa! I
lost hundreds of dollars, faced insults at the embassy, did not even get the
visa, and that's it.

I would be crazy if I even think of applying for a U.S. visa again! It's a
dignity matter.

It's America's rights to protect it's land, but it's not America's right to be
paranoid about Islam forever.

If America wants to continue to be the leader in this world, then America has
to keep it's doors open... there is no choice!

It's really so weird for me that America is acting like that, while we are in
the globalization time... I can order books from Amazon, sell my old items on
ebay, look at any street in America using Google maps, make a new friendships
with guys at Stanford, and read nytimes at a time while I am in Cairo, Egypt!

It's very weird because America focuses much more on the physical security,
while leaving the online security, which looks much dangerous for me!

~~~
mkn
_It's America's rights to protect it's land, but it's not America's right to
be paranoid about Islam forever._

I regret that I have but 8 karma points to give.

Islam, like all religious faiths, is predicated on the notion that rational
thought is to be subjugated to some holy book or higher power. As such, Islam,
and all other faiths (including even every moderate branch of mainstream
religions in the U.S.) are susceptible to radicalization and militarization.
While abortion clinic bombers are currently a much smaller problem than Muslim
suicide bombers on a pure numbers basis, the potential is still there.

That said, Islam has proven itself to be exceedingly prone to militarization.
The subordination of the intellect is an _explicit_ tenet of even the name of
the religion. The intellects of Muslims are, by definition, enslaved to the
Koran and, by common practice throughout the world, enslaved to two-bit
Mullahs and the insipid fatwas they issue. Western secular civilization, by
definition, has not only the right but the obligation to be paranoid about
Islam for as long as it take Islam to prove itself benign.

The only reason the western secular civilization need not immediately take
remedial action against other, more moderate, strains of religious belief is
that, currently, their capacity for sheer mindless barbaric murderousness has
been rendered latent by the secularizing force of modern technology and
society. Specifically, for example, there is no danger that printing an image
of the Christian god will result in mobs of anti-intellectual zealots rioting
in the streets, overturning and burning vehicles while chanting, "Death to
America!" There is that danger with Islam.

It is only radical and misguided political correctness to say that Islam is
not the enemy of the west, when Islam itself is explicitly opposed to such
shining examples of western rationality and moral values as: 1) The seeking of
equality of opportunity for women, 2) The seeking of knowledge via the
scientific method, even if (and especially if) it leads to the overthrow of
current understanding or doctrine, 3) Due process and commensurate punishment
for individuals accused and found guilty, respectively, of crimes, 4) The
separation of religious entities from the government, and so on.

Any sect that explicitly and in its founding texts is opposed to virtues such
as the ones listed above is not only an enemy of the West, but an enemy of the
scientific method that has brought so much benefit to mankind and even an
enemy of every great thinker since the Enlightenment. I am not ashamed of my
hatred for Islam, nor of my dislike for other organized religions. We can
thank Islam for shepherding rationalism through the Christian Dark Ages but,
currently, its only other gift to mankind is showing us explicitly how severe
the latent danger of the religious mind really is.

~~~
thepanister
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Although you admitted that you are an Islam hater, I really find it useless to
make a debate with you. Do you know why? Because most of the information you
listed above is wrong!

You have made the same mistake that many others do everyday... You judge on
Islam just because of less than 0.000000001% of Muslims have declared the war
against America.

Do you think that Islam agrees on bombs? If there is a religion that asks you
to kill others, then it's not worth believing in it!

I am sure that when you will have the correct information about Islam, and
about Muslims too, your point of view will be totally changed!

How many bombers are out there? Million bombers? Although million bombers is
not realistic number, but even if it's truth, then there are more than 1.5
Billions muslims in the world!

Devide 1 million/1.5 billion and then * 100 , and look at the percentage!

~~~
rms
His misconception is not believing that most Muslims are violent, but that
most Muslims take their religion as seriously as the intellectual framework
commands. Islam may have not had a reformation into conservative and non-
conservative sects, but the great majority of Muslims do not feel an image of
Muhammad is worth a riot.

Having said that, the proportion of orthodox, Koranic literalists to more
liberal Muslims does seem to be significantly higher than the proportion of
Christian biblical literalists to more liberal Christians I think this is the
point mkn was trying to make, even if using that to justify hatred makes him
look kind of dumb.

~~~
thepanister
_but the great majority of Muslims do not feel an image of Muhammad is worth a
riot._ In fact the great majority of Muslims _feel_ an image of Muhammed is
worth a riot, and even a war! Because Muhammed is not a normal person... he is
a prophet.

And yeah... most Muslims don't really take their religion as seriously the
intellectual framework commands... although we suppose to take Islam as a
framework for our lives!

