

Minefold (YC W12) Launches Affordable, On-Demand Platform For Game Hosting - whatupdave
http://techcrunch.com/2012/03/12/minefold-launch/

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betterth
I've run servers for friends and I only see one huge problem: 90% of my
friends wouldn't pay for a Minecraft server. They play, but it's just not how
my servers ran. I paid for it, and a few others who understood what I did and
what it cost, would help as well.

But 90-95% of my players were not paying members. They were great people and I
loved having them on my server. I wouldn't kick them or demand they pay in an
instant. But they weren't paying players. They were casual players, friends
and friends of friends.

This model forces all of your friends to pay, instead of just a few.

If I sent this server to my friends, and they found out they had to sign up to
play (or only get 10 hours free a month), they likely wouldn't make my server
their home. They might come and play, but they won't make it their home.
They're not paying players.

I wish these guys luck and the best but I will tell you right now, most
servers don't have an everyone-pays system. Even the big servers and themed
servers, the 100+ servers, most of them have rewards and incentives for
paying, but few require payment up front.

This seems to fly in the face of the realities of this industry. I wish them
the best but I imagine that this is going to be a constant source of
background issues until they open up an option to let one person subsidize the
cost of a single game world so there can be free players (unlimited hours) on
it.

EDIT: No bukkit support? Only vanilla servers? That's rough, all of the big
and popular servers run Bukkit, and every server I've run uses Bukkit. There's
not even any coherent anti-griefing or administration tools in vanilla!
Hopefully this is a huge priority.

~~~
chrislloyd
We recognized that problem pretty early on. Some of our favorite customers
have been teachers using Minecraft in their classrooms and in cases like that
having one person paying makes total sense. Working on it! We decided to
launch with individual accounts first because that's what made most sense for
us and our friends.

Regarding Bukkit, we've been holding off support because of this:
<http://www.mojang.com/2012/02/minecraft-team-strengthened> It's running in
beta but the real value of Bukkit is being able to use mods. We're working on
an experience that lets people enjoy mods without having to handcraft massive
YAML files or run up SQL databases.

~~~
mushroomhostage
This looks great, I'm really excited for what the future holds for Minefold. I
am all too familiar with difficulty of setup and maintenance of Minecraft
servers, and if you guys can make it painless I think a lot of people will be
interested.

However, I must caution against going to far on the side of simplicity. There
are plenty of server hosts out there which lock you in to fixed configurations
and do not support all the possibilities of what can be achieved with
Minecraft. Most hosts have an option for Bukkit, but those that do
occasionally limit the plugins you can run or do not allow modifications to
the CraftBukkit server itself.

I recently ran into this problem when setting up my own experimental hardcore
post-apocalyptic server, heavily modded to significantly enhance the gameplay
experience. I looked around at several hosts, but not all of them could
support the server I wanted to run. For example, Multiplay supports Bukkit but
doesn't let you run a "modded" Bukkit server. To run exphc I needed to mod the
CraftBukkit jar file itself, installing the required ModLoaderMP and
MinecraftForge APIs to support Buildcraft, IndustrialCraft^2, RedPower2, and
the handful of other mods depending on these APIs. Not all gaming-specific
hosts allow this, so I went with a VDS.

Furthermore, there are other modded CraftBukkit servers out there like
CraftBukkit++, and I hear the fine folks behind MC Port Central (who brought
the BC/IC2/RP2 mods to Bukkit, among others) are working on their own fork,
incorporating ML and Forge into the server itself. Hosts that only let you run
CraftBukkit "recommended builds" miss out on all these interesting and
powerful new Minecraft server configurations, pushing the limit of what is
possible in Minecraft, beyond what can be achieved using Bukkit plugins alone.

Not to mention, plugins like Hawkeye require the use of a MySQL database, and
are widely considered essential for any public server, in order to have a
record of and rollback malicious player actions, from cheating or other rule
violations. And some of the best and most innovative servers in my opinion,
such as hcsmp, have their own website tightly integrated with the Minecraft
server, providing real-time updates: logging player statistics, processing
donation payments, or even displaying a dynamic map of the world and all
player locations.

Of course, if you are targeting small servers, setup amongst friends, much of
this is less important. But I'd still argue support for "mods" proper is
crucial, as opposed to mere Bukkit plugins. Once I started playing with
jetpacks and quarries and airplanes and other advanced technology, I realized,
I couldn't go back to vanilla Minecraft. If you guys can crack the nut of
setting up an optimally-configured modded Minecraft server, taking out the
tedium of resolving block ID conflicts and world protection and backups and
updates and incompatibilities, of messing with confusing YAML configuration
files or executing SQL or console or shell commands, of downloading mods from
adfly and unzipping and extracting and reorganizing the files properly, just
to get up and running before you can play the game – I believe you will
succeed. Getting set up properly is the biggest impediment for gamers to
experience what Minecraft truly has to offer, but it is a completely solvable
problem. I wish you the best of luck.

~~~
whatupdave
Hey, I'd love to talk more about this in detail if you're interested!

Mind sending an email to dave@minefold.com?

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citricsquid
This is a wonderful business and I really think they will go places. Minecraft
servers are a huge part of the game, looking at our statistics for the servers
section on the Minecraft forum it's clear there are _millions_ of people
trying to find a place to play every month, if Minefold can convert 10% of
those to paying players they're going to do extremely well.

I was at Minecon (Minecraft Convention, Vegas November 2011) and while sat at
a table with one of the Mojang employees I listened to a father and his son
explain how managing a Minecraft server was hard work and they wish that
Minecraft would have some sort of "simple" system for it; login and play. No
screwing around with finding a company then managing a server and dealing with
issues, just pay -> play. Minefold is what he described.

congrats on the (full) launch, marketed properly this service could easily
capture 90% of the casual Minecraft players market. There will always be
people who want full control over their Multiplayer experience and they are
catered to by (quite literally) hundreds of companies, Minefold is the first
company I've seen that that properly caters to casual players.

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rdl
I wish these guys could become Official Trusted Server Providers for games
like Battlefield 3 -- there's a (commercial and technical) process required to
get approved.

I'd host my own servers otherwise, but I'm obviously in the minority. I
_can't_ host my own BF3 servers, so I'd love a service which let me do so.

Figuring out how to do in-game server creation and signup would be even
better, maybe as a revshare partnership with the game publishers or
developers.

In general focusing on games where the server is needed for fair play, and
people who play with strangers, seems like it could be viable. I'd be unlikely
to trust someone else's server to not be hacked (although most hacks are
client side, there's stuff you can do on the server too).

Maybe integrating some nice voting, voice chat (STILL a weak area on pc gaming
vs. xbox360), ladders/ranking, training/clan servers, etc. would make sense,
as soon as you leave the Minecraft specific world.

The next step after that is making MMO-type persistence and maybe selling
items even easier for small game developers; an alternative to EA or Steam for
self-distributed games? Or things which Steam doesn't provide.

~~~
lbotos
I'm actually working on my Senior Project right now that aims (no pun
intended) to do this. Minefold may venture outwards from Minecraft but I'm
targeting CS:GO and BF3 directly. :)

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simondlr
Wow. This is great. You guys make it so easy! The business model itself is
quite interesting. Considering that each person pays for hours, are there any
features down the line to add features that enhance community features?

I play on a small server with friends (which is cheaper than minefold atm), so
at the moment I'm primarily looking at what value you can add by adding onto
the ability for you guys to easily connect people, create maps, etc.

A few examples: Make it easier to categorise worlds that I might to join. For
example, some servers are just creative, others are PvP, some can be survival,
or others flat. Another option could be to be able to 'block' worlds (no more
destroying/creation) so that anyone can jump in and run around words that
people have created without asking for permission (thinking about the massive
lotr one). Or, for example, making it easy to find spleef arenas for the
occasional fun.

Being able to tag worlds is a simple start.

Best of luck guys. You guys have got something good going!

~~~
chrislloyd
Tags are a great suggestion. I was originally thinking of just showing
individual properties (creative, flat etc.) but tags are much flexible. We've
been thinking a lot about "discovery" of Minecraft worlds and tags seem like a
great Web 2.0 solution!

I've also been working for the last little while on "public" worlds where
anybody can join. Spleef arenas are coming soon!

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whatupdave
Hey HN, dave from Minefold here. Would love any feedback and happy to answer
any questions about our service you might have.

~~~
spacemanaki
Based on the FAQ, I'm going to guess that you might be thinking about this
already, but you need gift cards! I would throw $100 at this right now to
allow my broke college student brother and I to play for the next year without
having to convince him to pay.

Secondly, can you export your world data if you chose to leave?

~~~
chrislloyd
$100? Send an email to support@minefold.com and we'll work something out :P

Re data export: absolutely. It's not automated at the moment but shoot us an
email anytime you want a data snapshot.

~~~
spacemanaki
That's awesome. Not sure if you were serious, emailed you anyway.

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MrFoof
A friend (at BioWare) and I are cracking up, because we had considered the
idea of doing EC2-based hosting of Minecraft (and Terraria) servers about 6
months ago. We ran an SMP server for a while, doing lots of performance
testing and profiling.

However, we just couldn't see how we could get our margins to where they'd be
worthwhile without raising the price of a hosted server to the point where
it'd scare off potential customers. Low margins + a fair amount of customer
support = something I didn't want to consider.

Kudos to someone putting the thought into that and solving the margin issue,
spreading the per EC2-instance income over a much larger pool of people and
raising the overall revenue-per-server.

In the meantime, I have other crazy ideas I'm working on while I try to line
up a new day job. Good luck with this one!

~~~
lengarvey
I remember sitting with Chris at a SydJS meetup nearly a year ago and
overhearing his plans for minefold. At the time they'd already written a bunch
of code but were still very much in "stealth mode". At the time I was blown
away by how much thought they'd put into the idea and have eagerly followed
the development of it since.

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austingulati
So has the pay by the hour model been completely replaced by Minefold PRO? The
reason I am asking is that I see
<https://twitter.com/#!/qrush/status/117244523083595776> on the pricing page
and I remember seeing this in the past here on HN and the pricing model was
different.

~~~
whatupdave
Paying by the hour was proving to be too confusing. We'd rather get people to
pay for features and added value, so we moved to a much simpler pricing model!

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Pyrodogg
At first I frowned a bit at the no Bukkit support, until I remembered that all
of those guys have recently been hired by Mojang :) Eventually the stock
server should be just as awesome with super modding support.

Until then, I'm way too tweak-happy and authoritarian to give up my own
server.

Looks like a great service for people who just want click and go simplicity
though.

~~~
chrislloyd
We hear you dogg! Plugins are a priority. We're working on an way for people
to install and configure plugins that doesn't involve hand editing YAML. The
Bukkit team moving to Mojang is only going to make this easier!

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tbull007
This is awesome. I ran my own server for several months for a bunch of 10 year
olds. But it was a pain in the butt. Keeping it up, paying the bills and so
forth. Minefold solves the problem brilliantly.

The kids (or their parents) each pay their own way, they can choose to pay
(and play) as much, or as little as they want. Dave and Chris have been
fantastic and the service is continually improving.

I wish them well, it's solving a real problem for me and every parent I've
introduced to the service has had no problems paying for their kids to use it.

The other thing I've noticed is that the kids love cloning servers too, so
they can easily find maps they like, clone it then blow it up without needing
to be invited.

I discovered the service here a few weeks back and I've been using it ever
since, great to see them launch now into the "wild" as well.

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slewis
Very nice! I built a demo of simple, pay-by-the-hour minecraft servers about a
year ago but never launched. Lately I've been thinking about resurrecting that
project. I guess now there's some competition.

Its pretty clear that previous solutions weren't simple enough for casual
users. There are plenty of people who have no idea what RAM is but who would
love to have their own worlds that their friends can join. I think the world
sharing aspect is a big part of this and you guys have hit the nail on the
head. Well done and good luck!

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roblund
Looks pretty cool!

Are the prices missing from the pricing page, <https://minefold.com/pricing>?
Based on the Upgrade to Pro page I think it is $25 for 6 months for unlimited
access.

I like the idea, and the distributed pricing mechanism is definitely
interesting.

I'll be uploading my latest world shortly after I get off work :)

~~~
roblund
The pricing not showing up appears to be a Chrome issue (at least for me).

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Nogwater
I'm also not seeing the pricing in Chrome 17 on Windows 7.

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trin_
Is this really a problem? I mean ... there are tons of gaming-server providers
out there offering minecraft hosting (with unlimtied playtime ofcourse). the
only new thing i see is the forced bill split. am i missing something?

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ajju
I am not a regular minecraft player, but I tried it because it took me 10
seconds to sign up. I think Minefold could cause a big jump in the number of
people playing these online multiplayer games.

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JVIDEL
This is actually a great idea, many gamers I know who don't work in IT are
dumbfounded by all the hoops they have to go through just to get a server up
and running, let alone maintenance.

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voodoomagicman
Your service looks very cool, but your logo is fantastic! Did you guys design
it yourselves, or did you hire someone?

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chrislloyd
Thanks! The very awesome @themaninblue (<http://fluent.io>) made it as a
surprise gift to us one night :)

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ashconway
Excellent idea and love the brand. Always great to hear about fellow aussies
kicking butt.

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leddy
Loving this... has made playing Minecraft so much easier! The site is hot too!

