
How to Grow Old (1951) - sitajay
https://sites.google.com/site/gobenyan/essay
======
mark_l_watson
Great read, I just sent the link to some non-HN reading friends and my
brother.

I am turning 68 in a few months and I try to do most of what he recommends.
Enjoy younger family and acquaintances but also leave them to their lives,
being satisfied to just enrich their lives materially and give them space. I
had to think about the wording of his advice to persue ‘impersonal interests’
which for me is studying Go with a Korean Go master and learning those aspects
of (general) artificial intelligence that most interest me, without much
thought to practical considerations.

~~~
minhaz23
What exactly are those aspects of general artificial intelligenxe, and how
does learning Go relate?

Any advice for those curious and interested but inaccessible to an instructor?

Thanks in advance, and happy 68!

~~~
mark_l_watson
As interesting as Alpha Go is, for me studying Go as a game and my interest in
AGI (fusion of classic symbolic AI with deep learning, and deep learning in
general) are separate interests for me.

Advice for learning Go without an instructor: buy a Go playing program (I like
CS Pro on my iPad) that can analyze your games, showing you what your bad
moves are and showing an alternative.

~~~
nimithryn
Curious what you're working on and if you have any specific references - I'm
also interested in fusion of classic symbolic AI with deep learning

------
lwhalen
The last paragraph, to me, is most poignant:

"...in an old man who has known human joys and sorrows, and has achieved
whatever work it was in him to do, the fear of death is somewhat abject and
ignoble. The best way to overcome it -so at least it seems to me- is to make
your interests gradually wider and more impersonal, until bit by bit the walls
of the ego recede, and your life becomes increasingly merged in the universal
life. An individual human existence should be like a river: small at first,
narrowly contained within its banks, and rushing passionately past rocks and
over waterfalls. Gradually the river grows wider, the banks recede, the waters
flow more quietly, and in the end, without any visible break, they become
merged in the sea, and painlessly lose their individual being. "

~~~
agumonkey
This goes with the adult/parent step. Your ego usually takes a deep hit. I'm
sure lots of guys I've seen refuse to make babies did so because they knew it
was the end of a side of them. They wanted to keep playing longer. Ego
decrease is probably hardcoded for social purposes.

~~~
232812a6027b
I'm 41 and I have still not managed to really confront the question of having
children despite my wife being in her late 30s.

> I'm sure lots of guys I've seen refuse to make babies did so because they
> knew it was the end of a side of them.

Well, yeah...that sounds plausible. So how do they solve this?

~~~
appstorelottery
What solved it for me was my partner. She wanted a kid (I was 41, she was 36),
I just kind of went with it - screaming inside - but when she was born
everything changed. That was a few years ago now and I'm still coming to terms
with it. Just let it happen.

I _never_ thought I'd have kids, but the right woman will overrule you. It's a
much better experience than I thought, and sure, there are days when I think -
this wasn't a great idea - but once your child is born, you're programmed to
care for it - and it's nowhere as bad as I thought it would be.

~~~
astura
> once your child is born, you're programmed to care for it

Someone should let my parents know that.

~~~
appstorelottery
Yeah, I know what you mean. For myself, I find it helpful to remember that
everyone is doing the best they can do to survive. And this can mean simply
trying your best to look after yourself, if you aren't doing that well then
you don't have much left over for anyone else.

~~~
astura
I have no idea what you're trying to say or how it relates at all to my
parents being abusive pieces of shit.

You're simply dead wrong that every person is somehow "programmed" to care for
their offspring; don't go around spreading dangerous falsehoods.

------
crunchiebones
"An individual human existence should be like a river — small at first,
narrowly contained within its banks, and rushing passionately past rocks and
over waterfalls. Gradually the river grows wider, the banks recede, the waters
flow more quietly, and in the end, without any visible break, they become
merged in the sea, and painlessly lose their individual being."

I think he's describing Ego Death
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death)
it reminds me of this quote from André Gide:

"But, above this, there is still a higher state, to which Goethe achieves, the
Olympian. He understands that originality limits, that by being personal he is
simply anyone. And by letting himself live in things, like Pan, everywhere, he
thrusts aside all limits until he no longer has any but those of the world
itself. He becomes banal, but in a superior way.

It is dangerous to achieve too early that superior banality. If one does not
absorb everything, one loses oneself completely. The mind must be greater than
the world and contain it, or else it is pitifully dissolved and is no longer
even original."

~~~
nemo1618
"Croyez ceux qui cherchent la vérité, doutez de ceux qui la trouvent."

\- André Gide

------
neom
Bertrand Russell is awesome, there are quite a few good interviews with him on
the youtube, my favourite is this one, on philosophy itself:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvOcjzQ32Fw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvOcjzQ32Fw)

------
dfgert
Being in the company of your child's family is indispensable in late old
age(part of life when one is physically and mentally incapable of excising
things OP mentioned). Joy that old folks gets by spending time with
grandchildren is irreplaceable. Witnessing the daily life of child's family
and being part of it is excellent for psychological health, helps mind stay in
present and not drift back to past or other unnecessary worries.

What your child feels about you staying with them is something that you
inculcate in them when they are young. If you didn't bother sharing space with
your parents in the time of there need then your child won't either.

~~~
kilroy123
What if you don't want children? Hence, you'll have no grandchildren.

------
denzil_correa
> But if you are one of those who are incapable of impersonal interests, you
> may find that your life will be empty unless you concern yourself with your
> children and grandchildren. In that case you must realise that while you can
> still render them material services, such as making them an allowance or
> knitting them jumpers, you must not expect that they will enjoy your
> company.

Quite practical.

~~~
mirimir
Unfortunately, "you must not expect that they will enjoy your company" applies
to lots more than "children and grandchildren". That is, I mean, age
discrimination.

------
mevile
> As regards health, I have nothing useful to say as I have little experience
> of illness. I eat and drink whatever I like, and sleep when I cannot keep
> awake. I never do anything whatever on the ground that it is good for
> health, though in actual fact the things I like doing are mostly wholesome.

This is terrible advice fwiw. It might have been less terrible in 1951 before
the explosion of terrible food choices. Science shows the benefits of exercise
and proper nutrition + calorie restriction. You are very likely to age better
if you avoid bad lifestyle decisions.

Eat well. Sleep lots. Exercise.

We really shouldn't be spreading messages to the contrary. Look down at your
gut. It's killing you. It's destroying your organs with high blood pressure,
insulin resistance and fatty liver tissue and likely doing so without causing
any discernible symptoms. You won't know you're dying until it's too late.

~~~
rejberg
> As regards health, I have nothing useful to say as I have little experience
> of illness.

I interpreted this sentence as a disclaimer that what follows is explicitly
not advice.

------
Ngunyan
>I should wish to die while still at work, knowing that others will carry on
what I can no longer do and content in the thought that what was possible has
been done.

I fear death because I fear no one will look after the things that I cared
about in the same passion and in the same way that I do. I guess I am too
sentimental for what I've done to the things I love.

~~~
mevile
I think you have a solvable problem. Just find people who do care about things
as much as you do.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
This is IMO the directly wrong approach.

Realise instead that no-one, not even your own offspring (see comments
elsewhere on that one), will share your exact approach, your exact balance of
desires, your exact passion. Give it up. Death will come and force the
situation; don't be beholden to that which can never be achieved.

------
lordleft
"Of remoter ancestors I can only discover one who did not live to a great age,
and he died of a disease which is now rare, namely, having his head cut off."

------
vitoc
Russell published "The Conquest of Happiness" 26 years before this essay. I
spot all of the causes of happiness from "The Conquest" in this essay: Zest,
Affection, Family, Work, Impersonal Interest, Effort & Resignation :)

Check out [https://happy.runningroot.com/](https://happy.runningroot.com/)

HAPPY is a modern and visual journey through The Conquest of Happiness,
Bertrand Russell’s age-old advise on happiness. It provides a convenient
framework that helps establish mindfulness towards the causes of unhappiness
and understanding while embracing the causes of happiness.

HAPPY provides concise notes on what to look out for using many examples from
philosophy, history and art. Given that happiness is a vast subject, the
framework in HAPPY is a practical way of embedding Russell's ideas in your
life without going too deep into the science, psychology and philosophy. It
helps you benefit from these understanding with a constant mental awareness
that sustains your happiness for productivity and health.

------
sharadov
This struck a chord, in simple terms he's saying develop interests which you
can pursue for the sheer joy they give you. Unfortunately, most people are
always looking for a net benefit from everything - relationships, work,
hobbies

------
ca98am79
This is nice and I like the advice to not dwell on the past. I can see the
temptation to do this as I grow older.

One sentence, though, I disagree with is "One’s thoughts must be directed to
the future." I understand what he is saying, but I think better advice would
be "One’s thoughts must be directed to the present." His main advice seems to
be to find something that interests you enough so that you are happy to do it
every day - to me, something like this keeps you focused on the present and
not the future.

------
archagon
Russell’s thoughts on ego-recession remind me of yesterday’s AMA with Jason
Rohrer, where he talks about how his shifting sense of place in the world
informs the design of his latest game, “One Hour One Life”. The game is a
survival/crafting MMO where you start as the baby of another player,
completely helpless, and try to do as much as you can to move civilization
forward before you die.

It’s interesting to compare this to one of his earliest games, Passage, which
deals with a similar theme but from the perspective of a single individual.

[https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/a67qi1/im_jason_rohre...](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/a67qi1/im_jason_rohrer_solo_dev_of_one_hour_one_life_and/)

------
artur_makly
[https://aeon.co/videos/a-fanatic-against-fanaticism-and-
othe...](https://aeon.co/videos/a-fanatic-against-fanaticism-and-other-
pleasures-of-bertrand-russell-in-his-own-words)

------
thickice
What does he mean by this "My first advice would be to choose your ancestors
carefully." ?

~~~
mevile
It's a joke. You can't choose your ancestors, what he's saying is that the
experience of getting older is dictated in no small part by the genes you
inherited. Looking at your family's medical history will inform you of what
might be in store for you.

