
Ask YC: what non-top-tier college to apply for? - demaratus
I'm a high-schooler and will be applying for colleges this fall.  I've slacked a bit in high school (you know, working through SICP instead of doing homework), so my GPA is neither good nor bad (4.1), while my standardized tests are a little above average, but nothing extraordinary.<p>I'd love to go to someplace like MIT or Caltech but these are now unrealistic aspirations (for undergrad).  I'd also love to go to a liberal arts college that does CS, like Harvey Mudd, but even if I was accepted I'm not sure I'd be able to afford it.<p>I know I can get an education anywhere, but I'd like to go to a school with interesting/intelligent people, or, at least, not be surrounded by apathy.  Do you have any suggestions for schools I should shoot for?
======
robg
I was very impressed by UT-Austin and the community there. They also have a
honor's program for CS majors (Turing) that you may be able to get into with
okay grades but good experience. But even if you don't get into that program,
you'll still be taking classes with those folks.

Also think of the relationships between schools to get in the "back" door at
places where the competition might be higher. For instance, at the Univ of
Pittsburgh you can take one course every semester at Carnegie Mellon. The Pitt
credits are cheaper but you get the instructors and knowledge at CMU. Of
course, your degree would be from Pitt. Still, knowledge matters. I think the
same is true of Tufts and MIT/Harvard.

A third option is going to a local state school and getting your grades in
order to transfer after a year or two. You'll probably be in school a semester
or two longer (cause all credits won't transfer), but your degree will have
more of a "name" and you'll benefit from increased competition/knowledge.

EDIT: Sorry if this sounds disparaging of Pitt. I had a great experience there
in a combined cogneuro Ph.D. program with CMU. But I know nothing of Pitt's CS
department even as the cross-over of the communities made a lasting
impression. You'd likely to have to work a bit harder to make those
connections as an undergrad. But it is possible.

~~~
unexpected
UT-Austin is impossible to get into if you're out-of-state. The acceptance
rate for out-of-state kids is lower than Harvard's overall acceptance rate.

~~~
robg
If this is true, I'm not sure how CS is different. One of the CS profs
involved in the Turing program told me they make a real effort to bring in
out-of-state kids especially because they want it to be a national program.
That may also be true of the department in general.

------
sachinag
I can't believe no one has said U of I yet - University of Illinois. Lots of
top-tier coders, from Marc Andreessen to Max Levchin, went there.

However, as with the case with all the other public schools (non-CA) mentioned
so far, you will pay the out-of-state tuition rate. But you'd be at a very top
tier CE school, as you saw on the U.S. News list.

~~~
jigg4joe
I went to UIUC for CS undergrad and I can attest that it is a great program.
And very difficult. I graduated near the top of my high school class, but I
felt very average when compared with my peers in college. There are some very,
very smart people in the CS curriculum at UIUC.

Another great thing about UIUC is the diversity. It likes to present itself as
an engineering college (and rightly so, top 10 in many engineering
disciplines), so it attracts many students from other technical areas around
the world (India, Korea, China, Japan, Russia, Bulgaria, etc.). I'm plain old
whitebread, but I was the only one in my study group for several years. It was
a great chance to meet people from very different backgrounds.

Lastly, they just recently (2004) constructed the Siebel Center for Computer
Science which is where they hold most/all of their CS classes. A very modern,
high-tech building that can make any CS major drool. Not to mention the other
buildings which surround it: NCSA, Beckman Institute, and Grainger Library
(will become your 2nd home)

<http://www.cs.uiuc.edu/about/siebelcenter.php>

~~~
bootload
_"... Another great thing about UIUC is the diversity ..."_

This is the mark of a good learning ecosystem. One that supports diversity.
Diversity means less of your _"own kind"_. (by _"own kind"_ I mean, same geo,
monetary, political peers, etc) A greater chance to use and view different
ideas. This is a real problem with _"top"_ Universities who support and
advertise meritocracy, but end up supporting mono-cultural ideals. This might
be good if you want to pass school and work the system. It is bad if you want
to succeed past school and subvert the system and become not only a good
technician, practitioner (I avoid the professional lable) to become an
Entrepreneur.

------
Spyckie
Go after those top-tier schools.

If you're slacking off on homework working through SICP, you're probably top-
tier worthy. People who go after their interests are by definition more
interesting.

Don't weigh yourself on the standard metric because you're not standard. And
don't let that hinder the selling of yourself in your applications. I would
much rather hire a person who has started a startup before than one from a
corporate environment, and I think this principal holds true for colleges as
well - they would much rather accept someone who does what they're interested
in and pursues things beyond the norm.

College is the first great opportunity for young people to learn how to sell.
Think of yourself as a package - what differentiates you and makes you
special? Then, arrange your application that way. It's foolish to put your SAT
scores and grades up front as your flagship 'feature' that differentiates you
from others, even if you've aced them. Take some time arranging your
application centered around your strengths and things that you're proud of,
and make them want to have you, or regret it every night for rejecting you.

Again, go after those top-tier schools - being rejected is not as bad as
regretting not applying to them.

~~~
Prrometheus
>It's foolish to put your SAT scores and grades up front as your flagship
'feature' that differentiates you from others, even if you've aced them.

I'm curious, have you ever known any smart, successful people that couldn't do
well on the SAT?

------
msg
Public universities are not bad. I did my time in Univ of Washington and Utah
State University, and I definitely feel like I got my money's worth.

A warning, though. UW's proximity to MS and the other tech companies made the
department really exclusive for undergrads while I was there. I majored in
something besides CS, then did my master's in CS later. You'll want to learn
about what the department's standards are (eg, competitive admission for
starters) so you know what you have to do to get in.

I recommend you email or call the department secretaries and ask for some
information and a hookup with a current student. Assuming the secretary and
the student are helpful, you'll learn a lot about what you need to know.

OT, apply for scholarships like crazy. Don't make my mistake.

~~~
rcoder
UW and Utah State both have great undergrad CS programs, and they produce lots
of solid OSS projects, which could help your visibility a lot when you're
applying for jobs _after_ college.

I'm going to have to make my usual plug for my home state (Oregon) here, too,
and suggest that the OP look at both Oregon State University, in Corvallis,
and Portland State University, in Portland.

Neither is "world-class" for CS, but they both have solid software engineering
and math programs, produce a lot of open source, and have good connections to
the tech employers in the region. Plus, western Oregon (and Portland
especially) is a pretty damn nice place to live.

~~~
vthakr
I'd just like to point out that, if you have any interest in genetic
algorithms, Dr. Melanie Mitchell is one of the professors at Portland State
University and she pretty much wrote the book on GA's (see here:
[http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0262631857/qid...](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0262631857/qid=1079374680/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/103-2986580-3109461?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)).

------
hunterjrj
Have you considered the University of Waterloo? Its in Canada, but its highly
regarded by companies like Google, Microsoft, etc. Tuition may be cheaper as
well.

~~~
markm
Voted you up. Something else to consider when applying to Waterloo is the
ridiculously high male to female ratio. If applying to Waterloo I'd recommend
trying to take some shared credit courses with Wilfred Laurier students across
the street.

(Not sure if CS and Eng allow that, you might have to complain a bit)

~~~
hunterjrj
Not to mention the fact that the legal drinking age in Ontario is 19.

------
imgabe
If you're certain you want to major in engineering or CS. I've read really
good things about Olin (<http://olin.edu>) If I were applying to colleges now,
I'd apply there.

<http://wsjclassroom.com/teen/teencenter/05dec_olin.htm>
<http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/may06/3432>

~~~
prospero
When I applied there, I was told they only offered computer engineering
courses, not computer science. That was before they had actually opened the
school, though, so maybe that's changed.

------
drewcrawford
All I can say is, make a list of places and go visit.

I ended up at a (very) small private school about 400mi away. When I visited,
the head of the CS department talked with me in his office for over an hour.
From that conversation, I learned:

A) He is completely brilliant and extremely competent

B) He teaches about half of the upper-level CS courses

C) His dissertation was in an area that strongly interested me

After that it was a no-brainer. Obviously, going to a smaller, lesser-known
school, I don't stand out as much on a resume. But at the "good companies", it
matters more what you've done with your spare time than where you went to
school.

Turns out other competent people also followed my line of reasoning. My first
year there, I found two cofounders for a startup. So not only do I have a good
mentor (at least as far as the tech part goes), but we all get some leeway on
assignments if we were up until 1am adding a new feature to our codebase.

~~~
chollida1
> He teaches about half of the upper-level CS courses

Wow, how many upper-level courses were there? Even teaching 2 courses in a
semester is considered a lot for most professors'.

~~~
drewcrawford
You have to remember,

A) it's a small school

B) he enjoys teaching

I really didn't like the attitude of the larger schools where they would have
an associate professor who teaches CS1 talk to you about computer games. I
realize that profs like him are unusual. That's why I chose the school.

------
pg
It can't hurt to try for some top schools. There must be some admissions
officers who can distinguish between people who are smart and those who merely
get good grades. If you're smart, spots at top schools rightfully belong to
you, so at least take a shot at claiming what's yours.

Write your application essay about what you worked on instead of classwork and
standardized tests.

~~~
Alex3917
The problem is that in the real world if the admissions officers admit people
who are smart and didn't merely get good grades, the school's US News & World
Report rank drops and the university president has all the admissions officers
fired so that the board doesn't fire him.

------
apu
What state are you in? Most states have at least one good public university,
and these are generally fairly easy to get into and fairly cheap (if you're
from in-state).

If there's not a good one in your state, try one in a nearby state. It'll be
more expensive and harder to get into, but still generally cheaper/easier than
a private school. I can personally recommend UNC-Chapel Hill (nice campus,
small town, good mix of social+intellectual life) and Georgia Tech (great CS
professors and students, although poor social life).

Also, as others have said, definitely seek out and apply for as many
scholarships as you can. There are plenty available and you're almost
guaranteed one if you apply to several. Especially focus on scholarships which
are special to your situation (minority, athletics, service, etc).

~~~
demaratus
I'm in California, so Berkeley is an obvious option.

~~~
scw
If you're in California, definitely take a hard look at the UCs: in-state
tuition is very reasonable, and the schools are among the best on the country
for CS. Generally, the highest ranking UCs are: Berkeley, UCLA, UCSD, UCSB.
All four of those schools tend to be in the top 30 for CS.

Also don't forget PG's thoughts on elite institutions:
<http://www.paulgraham.com/colleges.html>

------
gm
Option #1) Go to a junior college, do your best and transfer to a real school.
(EDIT: In Cali, your grades will count as full "university" grades, so a 3.5
GPA will be taken as a true 3.5 university GPA when transferring)

Option #2) Simply try to get it the best school possible, top tier or not.

If you aim low, guess what? You're gonna have low results.

There are universities that exist to privide workers for the economy (ie, ITT
tech). These schools just fill the vacant seats as currently required by the
industry and don't teach you much that requires brains, or that will be
required X years from now. These schools typically teach you the current
popular programming languages and stuff like that. People like to call these
"hands on," but it really means "no theory."

"Better" schools provide thinkers to the economy. These schools teach you
principles and will make you study Scheme/LISP and implement quicksort and
other algorithms like that. These schools want to teach you principles that
you can apply to any language. You learn specific useful languages mostly on
your own time. They might adopt something like C++/Java/etc as a "core"
language, but the emphasis is always on the algorithm, not the language.

Sooo.... The choice is yours... Where do you want to study? What people do you
want to surround yourself with?

You still have time, make a good choice.

EDIT: I see you live in Cali.... I stress option #1 above, that's the route I
took. To put the two kinds of universities I talk about above, compare UC
(University of California) system versus the California State University
system. Why are there more CalState universities than UC? Because more labor
is needed than brains, and more people just want to get out and work rather
than think and go on to bigger things. Do your research.

~~~
fdschoeneman
The junior college route can work well. I went to Orange Coast College for 1.5
years and then transferred to Stanford. Many of my friends transferred to
Berkeley. There are some really good instructors at junior colleges here in
California. You'll have to do your research to find out which ones they are,
but when you do, they will often take a personal interest in your success.
You'll save a ton of money, get the education you deserve (read this again),
and leave with a nice brand name on your resume. Highly recommended.

The only downside is that most of the value of college isn't the classes or
even the professors, but the relationships and friendships you form with your
student peers. It's tougher to find people you'd want to be friends with at a
junior college, and when you transfer, you'll have to start all over again.
But it worked out fine for me.

Fred

~~~
gm
No kiddin'? I wen to OCC as well! It's a good school... I was pre-med and comp
sci back then, the quality of the courses was very high at OCC, it prepared me
well for later opportunities.

There is a theory that community/junior colleges offer higher quality of
education for the first two years because that is all they do. Certainly at
OCC that seemed to hold true.

------
alaskamiller
I'm confused by this entire thread.

1\. Where are you based? 4.1 weighted is a very very high GPA in California's
4.0 scale.

2\. What's your SAT scores? That's more indicative of where you will be
accepted than just the GPA.

------
PStamatiou
Try Georgia Tech, you might be surprised that it's not terribly hard to get
into.

warning: not many girls here

~~~
mbleigh
Georgia Tech is a great school for Computer Science (they model their program
after the best of the top-tier schools) and will IMO give you a much stronger
foundation than a liberal arts school with a CS program.

I spent a year at MIT and transferred to Georgia Tech and I don't regret it in
the least.

------
iamdave
Completely off base here, but um I think it's still relevant for anyone who
ends up down in the dumps and just wants to go to school no matter what:

DO NOT GO TO ITT TECH.

~~~
hunterjrj
Bad experience?

~~~
iamdave
Horrible experience.

\- Staff with the exception of program chairs was always people who work entry
level jobs in your industry, and have no idea how to teach the subject matter,
or in some cases even interact with students

\- The administrative process was nearly impossible for every aspect of your
academic career. While tending to family matters, I got absolutely no respect
in regards to emergencies or crises

\- Education? Let me put it this way, after dropping out and getting to work
on my Startup, ITT Tech seemingly had an innumerable amount of students who
were willing to work, but because I knew the quality of information was
terrible, I wouldn't hire a single one of them. Text books are published by an
ITT Contracted company and is almost always filled with erroneous, and
inaccurate information. Even the labs are awful. Operating systems, for
example: we got to Linux. All we did was gather around a computer screen, the
teacher went "THis is linux, this is what the terminal looks like" and that
was as useful as it got.

\- Career services? The career services department probably has my resume
memorized, and while I knew, and the IT administrator knew I was more
qualified than every student currently attending the school, Career Services
was always sending me to Best Buy and Circuit City for "jobs".

\- Then there was the whole thing with my buddy Chris. Around my 3rd full
semester there, I was in the student lounge with Chris when a guy walked in
wanting to inquire about getting admitted.

Chris "You want to go to school here?" Guy "Yes" Chris "Don't"

That little action caught the attention of the dean who refused to let him
graduate on that alone, as a result his tuition skyrocketed because he
couldn't take the classes if he was on academic probation, yet he was still
registered for them (as you are automatically registered for classes, you can
take no elective courses even if you pay foor them). He is currently filing a
lawsuit against the school.

Want me to go on? I will. Way overpriced, way overhyped by their marketing
crews, this place needs to be DESTROYED.

~~~
nazgulnarsil
why would you attend a school that advertises on TV?

~~~
boucher
Although I agree that its foolish, every major school that competes in
nationally televised sports has a commercial.

------
bcutler
Try Brigham Young University, in Provo, Utah. They've got a competitive (if
not top-tier) CS program, fantastic library, beautiful campus, and tuition is
20% of what you'd pay at other private schools.

Warning: not a party school

~~~
te_platt
I spent time at BYU and the University of Utah and I thought the U of U had a
much more solid CS program. The U has a long history in the field. It is also
where I was introduced to lisp, bigO notation, and algorithm analysis. BYU was
more Java oriented. Of course that was many years ago so take it for what it's
worth.

~~~
wallflower
Reminds me of University of Utah's famous alumni... Adobe, WordPerfect, Pixar
co-founders...

<http://www.cs.utah.edu/dept/history/>

------
cmos
My grades were rather bad in highschool as well (B minus average). I had great
experience with science fairs. (state level science fairs can be a great way
to earn money for college) and building robots and such. If your going to not
have the best grades, you had better have some pretty amazing results with the
free time spent not studying.

I (somehow) got into Rensselear Polytechnic (www.rpi.edu) and loved every
second of it. I have always been impressed that they looked beyond my grades.

I had far more hands on experience as an undergrad than my friends who went to
MIT, and met like minded people who also wanted to start a company after
graduating college. RPI created the first 'incubator' in the US, and are very
involved in getting technology from the labs into growing businesses.

When I graduated (1997) I won RPI's $20k business plan contest with a friend
of mine, giving RPI a small stake in our company. We then raised more money
from small upstate NY VC firms who got their funding from insurance companies
who received major tax breaks from New York State to help stimulate the
upstate NY economy.

While startups were begging to blow their investment money on crazy rents in
SF and San Jose we were in Troy, NY surviving by having an incredibly low run
rate. And I can safely say that all of this stemmed from the support we got
from RPI.

Find the school that promotes all the companies started by their alumni.
Contact some of these graduates who have started companies. Ask them how their
experience was. (i.e. if you were looking to get a job, you would ask alumni
who graduated how their career service department was)

~~~
altano
Troy, the city RPI is in, is a really unique place. Most people would call it
a dump, but I found it pretty darn awesome. As James Kunstler put it: "The
late 20th century bypassed it so completely that it evaded the kind of false
urban renewal that left so many other towns wrecked."

If you walk around downtown you can be go from a modern ghetto to a '20s boom
town and back again in 5 minutes. The mix is surreal and I've never been
anywhere else like it.

I'm glad after graduating I ended up in Boston, another city that has an
amazing amount of preserved history. Otherwise, I'd be missing Troy a little
too much.

p.s. This talk by James Kunstler is awesome:
<http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/121> "Technosis externality
clusterfuck" hah

------
ericb
The SUNY (State University of New York) schools are great. There's pretty much
a SUNY school that will cover you at most GPA-levels. Look at SUNY Geneseo (2
girls per guy!), SUNY Albany, Buffalo, and Binghamton for the best in the
system, but there are easier-to-get-into schools there, too. If you're not
going to MIT, or an IVY, I think very few other schools offer a return on
investment that is comparable to a good state school.

------
dangoldin
You can take a look at Cornell. The grade criteria is not as struct as
MIT/Caltech but the CS program is considered one of the best in the US.

~~~
Frocer
I second that, although I am a Cornell grad so I am biased :)

Cornell also accepts a huge amount of transfers. It's somewhere around 20-30%
when I was there.

But be aware of the stats on sites like US News. The engineering school is
much more competitive to get in.

~~~
Alex3917
You can always apply to another easier-to-get-into program within Cornell and
then transfer into the engineering school. You just need a 3.0 your freshman
year. You can even take all engineering courses before you transfer if you
want to, not that I'd recommend it if you're trying to get a good GPA. (Also a
Cornell grad.)

~~~
maximilian
I'd recommend against that. A friend of mine did that, and its a huge pain in
the ass. Just apply to the engineering school directly. They hold you to a
pretty tough requirement to switch colleges, which puts a lot of stress on
your first couple semesters.

~~~
Alex3917
I would recommend it only if you commit to taking the hard classes over the
summer before your frosh year. Otherwise I agree with your analysis.

------
Alex3917
A lot of schools have a guaranteed transfer program. For example anyone can
get into one of the second tier Wisconsin schools just by applying, and then
if you get above a 3.0 you can transfer into Madison.

~~~
coglethorpe
I went to Madison and it was great. I think it all depends on what state
you're in, but many states have great "second-tier" schools that offer cheaper
tuition.

------
andreyf
If you're interested in Math, I can recommend Rutgers - the math dept, esp.
the honors track, is as good as any Ivy. The CS dept. is good, too, esp. if
you're interested in the subject.

I would imagine any major public research university having the same ...

------
richesh
According to a study by the ACM in 2007,
([http://nirmalthacker.wordpress.com/2007/06/07/acm-
rankings-f...](http://nirmalthacker.wordpress.com/2007/06/07/acm-rankings-for-
graduate-cs-programs/)) University of Maryland is a great program. I'm
definitely biased since I went to school there, they were ranked 11th in
computer science when I attended and have consistently ranked high since then.
They have a great BS-MS combined program that I highly recommend.
<http://www.cs.umd.edu/>

------
kschrader
Are we really at the point where the only schools that count as "top-tier" are
MIT and Caltech now? I can't believe people here are talking about Berkeley
like it's some sort of a fallback option.

Look at [http://grad-
schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/grad/com/s...](http://grad-
schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/grad/com/search)

Sure it's for graduate schools, but I have to imagine that it tracks pretty
close. In my experience, most of the programs there in the top 20 are all
pretty comparable.

(FYI, University of Michigan, loved it)

------
jtkipp
The honors program at your local state school is probably an extremely good
choice. It will be affordable and you will likely get access to the resources
of a big university together with a smaller community of students who are
motivated to be in college and faculty who are more engaged in teaching.

Paying out of state tuition to a state school quickly becomes as expensive as
going to a private college once financial aid it taken into account. There are
blocks of states with reciprocity agreements where you can go to another state
college for near-in-state tuition. Compare the honors programs and CS
curricula of those colleges.

Do the classes and requirements sound interesting and challenging to you? If
so, they probably to do other students who are like you. Does the college have
a program for getting undergraduate students involved in research? This is
another way to surround yourself with other students who are motivated to get
a good education. Look at the university's research labs and institutes in
other fields as well; There are always professors in other fields who
desperately need computer help.

------
icco
I would highly recommend Cal Poly San Luis Obispo for a computer science
curriculum. The location is beautiful plus the education is top notch. There
is no graduate program so even though the school has 20,000 students, classes
never get over 40 people.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Polytechnic_State_Un...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Polytechnic_State_University)

------
aleclair
Northeastern. The CS department is good, but co-op is better. I'm just
finishing my first co-op and my marketable skills (the kind of things I'd put
on a CV) have exploded. I don't have the time to go into full detail about the
virtues of co-op, but I'll say this: it is the single best thing I have EVER
done for myself, followed closely by quitting smoking and re-discovering
exercising.

~~~
hendler
As a CS northeastern Alum (who didn't do co-op), I can say that the students
there have a chance to taste the "real world" - and the alternation between
co-op and school keeps knowledge of the applied and theoretical fresh.

------
Kevin_Johnson
Missouri University of Science & Technology (formerly known as the University
of Missouri at Rolla, and before that the Missouri School of Mines) is a great
engineering school. It's very affordable, the engineering and science
graduates pretty much all make above the national average starting salary. A
lot of career engineers came from there and have made it good at Boeing,
LockMart, Raytheon, etc in aerospace and defense sectors for example.

It also has a huge number of engineering degrees to choose from, and some of
them are very unique. It was the first to offer a minor in Explosives
Engineering in the country. Their Student design teams regularly win most of
the undergrad engineering design competitions in the country (and a few
notable world events).

The downside is it's like being on a pirate ship. It's hard work, bad food,
and no women. It's worth it though. Most fun I ever had in my life.

The site is mst.edu <\- check it out.

~~~
Kevin_Johnson
Forgot to mention: 1) It's super affordable. 2) Has many notable alumni (one
good example is Tom Akers (Colonel, USAF, Ret.) was my bro's advisor in
mathematics and holds the record for stick time on the space shuttle, broke
the record for spacewalk duration, then broke it again the next day, flew on
the HST repair mission, etc.) 3) Huge emphasis on undergrad education, and
undergrad R&D work. 4) Recently started a program to bring big business
engineering into the area (Rolla is a rural setting). A Jet engine
manufacturer is setting up a facility there now. 5) You can get NRC licensed
to operate a real nuclear reactor.

That's just of the top of my head. There's plenty more where that came from.

~~~
Darmani
I visited Rolla (errr....S&T) a year ago for an admissions event, and was
impressed by the CS program as it was presented to me by one brilliant,
enthusiastic assistant professor. I then went home and reflected on the
impression I got from the rest of the school, and it was not so rosy.

Big-O notation is taught at S&T in the Data Structures II class, which they
recommend taking as a sophomore. I welcome anything that would tell me
otherwise (I would like to feel better about my backup school -- 'twould ease
the nightmares of universal rejection), but, until then, I'll consider that a
microcosm reflective of an overall slow pace.

------
kynikos
Rochester Institute of Technology

Pros: Lots of things that are brand new, solid CS and engineering departments,
academically diverse campus, strong industry partnerships, growing
entrepreneurial community, co-op work graduation requirement for most majors.

Cons: No girls, weather, pricey, nerdy

~~~
chrismjohnson
I second a vote for RIT (recent grad). kynikos is spot on with the pros /
cons. If you can stand the negatives you'll end up with a great degree and a
name people recognize in industry.

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jsiegal
I go to Colgate University. The CS Program is good, not the best, but it is a
liberal arts college and the people there are really interesting and smart and
a lot of fun. The professors are the best part. I've eaten dinner at at least
four of my professors homes with their families and see them all the time
downtown and walking around the campus. My largest class so far has been 18
kids. Hit me up (my username @ students.colgate.edu) if you have any
questions...love to help!

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strlen
What state do you live in? If you're in California, a good option would be
community college for two years and then transfer to UC of your choice
(Berkeley is on par with MIT as far as EE/CS goes). I am sure your state has
excellent universities and similar programs.

I'd say any university in the UC system is an excellent bet, as is University
of Washington, U Michigan, UMN Twin Cities, etc. You'd get an excellent CS/EE
education any one of those places.

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markm
Stanford, do whatever it takes to get into Stanford.

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jjguy
University of Washington in Seattle University of Maryland in DC University of
Texas in Austin

3 top-tier programs at public schools.

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rms
What is your unweighted GPA on a 4.0 scale? College Admissions officials
unweight GPAs before they even look at the other number. Some schools use a
6.0 scale!

Make sure to fill out a FAFSA as soon as possible and don't not apply to
private schools just because they are expensive. Financial aid can be
surprisingly generous.

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boucher
Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about affording school just yet. A lot
of schools offer significant financial aid packages, and there are plenty of
scholarships available.

Take it one step at a time. Figure out where you want to go, get in, and then
figure out how you can afford it.

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bayleo
Not that this should be the determining factor, but with which state do you
have residency? If you're concerned about costs someone may be able to
recommend a good school you could get into and still have in-state rates the
first 1-2 years.

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bluelu
Study abroad, for example here at the ETH Zurich. If you are good, there won't
be a problem to do your master at one of the top US universities, or at least
do an excahnge year there or a master thesis. But you must understand german
;)

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AndyKelley
Definitly _not_ ASU. It has a really crappy computer science program. I have
yet to get an English-speaking professor for a CS class. It's also obvious
that they don't care about anything but money and racial diversity.

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krschultz
Where do you live? That will change the answers a bit. Having done a year
where you need to get on a plane to get to school and back, it is generally
not worth it unless the program at the other end is awesome.

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lyime
UC Berkeley (myvote) and Stanford are awesome school with startup culture.
Must note: They are rivals, so if you are deciding between them, take your
time.

Also: Your scores are good, good enough for berkeley I think.

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sethg
Cascadia Community College (in Seattle, Washington).

[http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2007/0709.careycas...](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2007/0709.careycascadia.html)

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nradov
Go ahead and apply to HMC. If you're accepted they may be able to come up with
enough financial aid to make it work. I didn't pay the full retail price.

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akd
Of course try UC Berkeley. It's a bit of a crapshoot - I know people who have
gotten into MIT and rejected from Berkeley but also the other way around.

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tstegart
I think we can all agree the University of Wisconsin si the best. No need to
debate, we can shut down the comments now..

No seriously, great people, great town. :)

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gtani
hot off the press, came out today

[http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/grad/eng/c...](http://grad-
schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/grad/eng/comp)

i think if you buy the mag, there's rankings for more than 10 schools. And i
vaguely remember another ranking for best values in education, places like
Rose-Hulman, Cooper-Union,

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syalam
ASU (Arizona State University). Good party school, lots of hot chicks, and
code

~~~
ibsulon
Too bad it's an awful school.

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MisterMerkin
Seems if your GPA is 4.1 with 4.0 being the highest you can take your pick of
where you want to go and they'll probably pay for you, too.

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prakash
Rutgers

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xlnt
FYI Harvey Mudd is very selective. Don't assume it's easier to get into than
Caltech.

