
I Can Be Just As Capable. Let Me. - shashashasha
http://www.kotaku.com.au/2012/06/513794/
======
johngalt
Some women are put in game journalism roles because they are appealing to
their audience for reasons other than their gaming knowledge. PR person
misunderstood her silence and made a bad assumption. This misunderstanding
could have been easily corrected. Saying, "No thanks I'll drive. What type of
damage model do you use?" is plenty to show you mean business.

People _shouldn't_ judge books by covers, but they do. Best you can do is give
them one good shot at understanding. This will separate the actual jerks from
those who just guessed wrong. Most people don't want to offend you, so don't
spend your time walking around with silent resentment over something that's
done by mistake.

~~~
ceol
It's easy to tell someone to give everyone a shot at understanding when you're
not on the receiving end of it all the time. She had this happen multiple
times, so she rightly assumed what anyone would: These PR reps assumed she
couldn't play their games because she was a woman.

~~~
EGreg
What about these PR reps, what if all the other girls they say that day
weren't really experienced players of shoot-em-up games, how were they
supposed to know she was different right away? Doesn't your comment apply
equally to say she assumed things?

~~~
anthonyb
There's a simple rule of thumb: Would she have gotten the same treatment if
she were a guy? If not, then calling shenanigans is the right response.

~~~
EGreg
What do you mean by calling shenanigans? Blaming the PR people?

The thing is, the guys didn't get the same treatment... but my point was
simply that the PR people were _exposed_ to a certain pattern (someone is a
girl => they aren't that experienced playing shoot em up video games) and it
was repeatedly reinforced through subtle social feedback, that expecting them
to just be good at the game was not producing great results for them or for
your brand. And since the PR person wants to do their job and give a good
impression of the game, they would just assume this girl was like the others,
and offer to show her the best parts about the demo, so that she can write
about them.

~~~
anthonyb
The thing is, you're perpetuating the myth too.

"Those poor PR people, how were they supposed to know that a chick plays video
games?"

~~~
EGreg
They aren't poor, I am asking why she is surprised given that they were very
likely to do that, and indeed most of them in her story did do that.

What is the alternative? I am not calling them poor, but you are calling them
deluded. And I am deluded. Basically we all believe a myth.

What is more likely is that there is an underlying reason for the PR people
and others to believe it. It is the reason that should be analyzed and
addressed, not the people who are the product of it.

This is starting to sound a lot like
<http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/PublicChoice.html>

~~~
anthonyb
_> What is more likely is that there is an underlying reason for the PR people
and others to believe it._

You're making the same mistake that the PR guy made ( _Obviously_ women don't
play games, therefore it's an understandable mistake). Stop doing that, would
be a really good start.

~~~
EGreg
first of all he was the one who made the judgment, I simply evaluated his
judgment

secondly why do you keep saying that acting based on previously established
patterns in one's life is a mistake?

how do you know I'm not a nobel prize winning sociologist, and that you are
the one making the mistake

------
sosuke
I didn't even realize it was a female author until the quote about the PR
person saying girls not usually being into this stuff. A PR person that is
saying stuff like "I think I better play it for you" shouldn't be in that
business, no matter who was at the keyboard. She said it happened many times,
after a while I'd be compelled to say something to shut them up so I could
play the darn game.

~~~
calibraxis
One female developer I know absolutely hates when male coworkers rip away the
keyboard from her. I would too, though other males don't do that to me.

~~~
vishaldpatel
Male developers tend to rip keyboards away from other males too though... it
takes patience on the part of a human-being to not be in the driver's seat yet
still be in control.

~~~
heretohelp
Yeaaahhhh...it has nothing to do with gender in this case. Anybody who has
experienced the agony of pair programming knows what this feels like.

~~~
jasonwocky
Agreed (except for the agony part...I've been pairing for a long time and I
enjoy it). In my experience, the people that "rip" keyboards from other folks'
hands do so rather indiscriminately.

------
Pewpewarrows
Besides the blatant sexism that's ripe throughout this woman's interaction
with various staff members at E3: there's another underlying problem.

You shouldn't have to hold someone's hand through a game demo. And you
certainly shouldn't need a PR person there to sell the game to your members of
the press. The game should be as inviting and enticing to veterans who have
been resting their fingers on WASD since they learned to walk as it is to
someone who is just picking up a controller for the very first time.

Draw me in, let me lose myself in your entertainment, and don't make me think.
A shining example of this is when first-person shooters stopped hiding the
"inverse look" option in the deep recesses of a menu, and instead just asked
you to "look up" when you first start a new game. Whatever direction you
choose (up for up, or down for up (inverse)), the game then immediately flips
the option for you behind the scenes. That's the level of UX and
approachability that should be applied to every control and game mechanic in
your title. A fact sheet shouldn't even be available. Make me fall in love in
the first 5 minutes, like a well-crafted movie or book.

Games get away with so much because they can become addictive and time-
consuming. And they'll still sell by the millions.

~~~
Negitivefrags
This doesn't take into account the realities of an E3 demo.

For one, the clever tricks that ease you in to the controls generally occur at
the start of the game. It's not just the UI of the game that allow a first
time player to be able to understand, it's the design of a level to teach you.
This is often not the part of the game that an E3 demo wants to show.

The second point is that a lot of the more subtle stuff that hints to new
players how to play may not even be in the game yet. These E3 demos are with
an incomplete product, but the developers have slaved to create a section of
the game that seems polished. However, they know their target audience for the
demo are experienced gamers, not members of the general public, so it changes
their development priorities accordingly.

------
Mz
I only got about halfway through this, far enough to wonder why she didn't
tell him that she had to personally play the game in order to review it and,
if that had not gotten him to move the fuck out of her way, then just walk
off. No need to be "polite" and "respectful" to a dick.

~~~
ctdonath
I finished it, and wondered why she consented to such treatment over and over,
reinforcing the stereotype instead of objecting and demonstrating competence
and tearing down the misconception.

~~~
liedra
It can be really hard in a situation like that to stand up for yourself,
especially if you don't want to cause a public fuss. I'm female, and at PAX
East I was approached a couple of times (at social events, by attendees) and
rather inappropriate things were said to me; it's hard to do anything other
than just want to get out of that sort of a situation. Something inside you
says "I can't believe he really means this", or "Did he really just say what I
think he said?" - it is very much l'esprit d'escalier when it comes to
standing up for yourself.

~~~
drostie
Though I have never been to PAX East I would still say: I'm sorry.

It's incredibly perverse, the way I was socialized in the US. I was taught
essentially that love was always "at stake" in every discussion with the
opposite sex, and that if I didn't have love, whether by commitment or
conquest, then I was worthless. I ultimately had to resolve the problem that I
wasn't treating ladies as genuine human beings by jumping off the deep end,
and accidentally inventing a personal religion. Basically I committed to the
worthlessness and resolved to make it my own, because it was better to treat
others as real human beings. In doing so I suddenly discovered that love isn't
static, isn't a substance, and that along that earlier path, real love was in
fact impossible. So by embracing worthlessness I accidentally discovered
worth.

I can't apologize to those I have wronged before, and those that have wronged
you can't apologize to you now, but though it is empty, I would apologize to
you on their behalf. I'm sorry; I've learned.

~~~
liedra
I'm not really sure what you are talking about here but, uh, thanks? I think?

~~~
drostie
Sorry, it was a very weird request.

We seriously need a social protocol for situations where A says something
which makes B feel very sorry, but the proper recipients of B's apology are no
longer available to hear it. It felt way too cheesy to just apologize to
myself, so I apologized to you, but that doesn't make me feel any better about
my womanizing and discriminatory past. Live and learn, I guess.

~~~
liedra
Ahh, I see. Well, kudos for improving your life. Keep it up! :)

------
goldensaucer
I'm finding a lot of the responses to this article disheartening. There's a
common trend of "she should've said something," and while many here disapprove
of the PR guys' treatment of the writer, they're still quick to defend his
innocence or obliviousness. Focusing on how the author could've done better to
defend herself against sexism is pretty problematic and indicative of this
brand of derailing the conversation:
<http://www.derailingfordummies.com/education.html>

~~~
chc
The problem is that she raises two separate issues, one of which was his fault
and one of which was partly his and partly hers. People are following her lead
and conflating the two.

1\. The guy was a sexist prick.

This was his fault, and she obviously doesn't deserve any of the blame for his
broken worldview.

2\. She didn't get to play the game.

This was partly her doing. He still deserves some of the blame because it's
his job to represent his company well to her and he didn't do that. But she
didn't so much as indicate a desire to play it, which I don't think is too
much to expect from an adult acting in a professional capacity. Non-videogame
journalists have to deal with much fiercer opposition to their reporting than
some sexist twit making unwarranted assumptions, but somehow political stories
still get written (by women, no less).

~~~
pvarangot
Have you though that maybe she is a video-game journalist and not a non-video-
game journalist partly because she doesn't want to deal with what you
describe?

Its ridiculous to demand the same amount of experience in dealing with adverse
situations to people who choose to review commercial products for a living and
to political or war journalists. Specially when you are demanding expertise in
approaching a hostile subject in order to get your facts prior to forming your
opinion.

------
imgabe
Maybe this is a consequence of the same problem in that women are not taught
to be as assertive, but why wouldn't you just say "Hey, no thanks, I want to
play the game for myself. If you expect me to write an accurate review of your
game I need to actually play it."

~~~
Mystitat
The response is irrelevant. The point is that the PR reps made her feel like
an outsider in her industry.

~~~
imgabe
And I wholeheartedly agree that those are lousy PR reps. But what's the
takeaway here? The people who are actually reading this article likely
overwhelmingly agree with her.

If you address your complaint about someone's action, not to the person doing
that action, but to a large anonymous audience, how do you expect it to be
rectified?

~~~
Mystitat
I take issue with the specific wording in your comment, "...but why wouldn't
you just say..." It makes it sound like discrimination is not a big deal,
because if you were just "taught to be assertive," you could handle it.

There is nothing she could have done to prevent the discrimination other than
being a man. The entire article is set up to emphasize the way that anyone
should be able to tell she's a gamer from the way she holds her hands on the
keyboard, and yet they still treated her like someone who does not belong in
the industry.

The point of the article is to increase awareness of discrimination among the
"large anonymous audience." It is offensive to suggest that victims of
discrimination should just act differently to prevent it.

~~~
imgabe
So, if we're all aware of discrimination it will go away? Maybe, the PR guy
she talked to will see her article and make the connection that it was him she
was talking about. Maybe.

If she had spoken directly to him about it, we could be certain that he knew
his behavior was not appreciated. If he's not hopelessly clueless, he might
even modify his behavior in the future. The number of people acting in a
discriminatory fashion would then be decreased by one. That is something that
could be considered progress.

I'm on your side here. I would also like to live in a world where there's no
discrimination. I don't think we get there by "raising awareness" among people
who are largely already aware of the problem.

I honestly don't see how it's offensive to suggest something a person could do
to bring about the change that they want to see. Yes, you shouldn't have to.
Yes, in a perfect world, nobody would ever encounter a jerk. But we don't live
in that world. You have little to no control over how other people act. The
only control you have is in how you act. Simply acknowledging that
discrimination exists is not going to change anything if you don't confront
the people who are doing the discriminating.

~~~
goldensaucer
It's offensive because, even if you're on her side, you're displacing
responsibility from the offender. It's not her job to individually confront
and educate every condescending PR rep. That's a grind, and also only
effective on a micro-level. By writing another piece on sexism at E3, she
contributes to the ever-growing pool of them; the more the community is aware
of such behavior, the better equipped they are to recognize it when it
happens.

~~~
kilian
But isn't that just practicality? Stepping completely away from this specific
case, I have found that people that are the most effective in changing things
are the ones that say 'I think it's your fault, but I'm going to fix it
anyway'.

Naming it like this article is obviously important and I also don't think
anyone thinks she is in any way responsible or in the wrong (quite the
contrary) but the most effective way to make an offender change his (or her)
ways is to simply communicate with him (or her).

~~~
goldensaucer
Yes, but there are a lot of factors that play into that communication. We make
assumptions that the other party is amenable to change, or that the offended
is an effective communicator in these one-on-one scenarios. I think it's
unfair to think that these ideal conditions are in place for all of her
interactions.

The article shares an experience of being marginalized, and we're focusing on
what she could've done to feel more welcome where she felt unwelcome. By
continually suggesting that she stand up for herself, we're creating an
atmosphere that basically says, "It's on you," which further marginalizes her.
Despite best intentions, it's treating her like a problem and distracts from
the greater problem of condescension towards women in games.

------
xiaoma
> _“Well, OK.” I sensed a disbelief in the guy’s voice. “But do you play
> shooters?”

I remember the silence that filled this space beyond this question. I was
horrified that anyone could even ask such a thing. Here I was, sitting with my
fingers spread across WASD, admiring a game world — and somehow, for some
obtuse reason, being assumed to be someone who didn’t know anything about the
world or how to interact with it.

“I think I better play it for you,” he said finally, prying my hands away and
turning the keyboard towards himself._

If it had been me, I'd have said "Yeah" as I continued playing instead of
refraining from both talk and play until the silence was uncomfortable and
then going home and writing an article about how oppressed I was. The poor guy
was very possibly just trying to do his job and be helpful.

On the other hand, the article she did write made the front page here and it's
unlikely that any article about the game itself, however good, would have
gotten this kind of circulation. I guess that's why she's a successful
journalist and I'm just a gamer.

------
caycep
As a reporter, you deal with unsavory people all the time. The writer should
use the experience as a way to devise her own methods of creating
contacts/breaking the ice at this sort of thing. Or if the game/PR was indeed
that bad, write a scathing review.

Contacts don't make themselves - cub reporters have to wear out shoe leather
walking the beat, talking to the right cops and the right people on the
street. Clueless PR people should be the least of their worries.

------
Torgo
People keep calling this a professional setting. But it's a press expo. "Booth
babes" as popularized by seemingly every video game or entertainment expo
evolved out of companies hiring attractive women for their expo booth, to
flirt with potential customers. This particular convention one year had a
company set up a display of a live "schoolgirl slumber party" that devolved
into a lesbian makeout session. Flirting is expected. Sex is shoved in your
face.

whether that is a good thing or not is beside the point that standards of
professional conduct at E3 aren't the same as a staid business professional
gathering.

------
carbocation
Hell, even if you were a virtually incapable, absolute neophyte, so what? The
PR guy should still not be ripping the controls from your hands. These all
sound like miserable demos, or perhaps very poorly trained staff.

------
nnythm
I was skimming this article and thought that the premise was that first person
shooters were switching to using the up, left, right, and down arrows instead
of wasd. I felt the lede + nut graf (was there even a nut graf here?) was
misleading--it was completely about the buttons, not about the identity of the
gamer, the game industry, nor society in general.

I am interested in articles about female gamers and how they deal with the
unpleasantness surrounding the gaming industry, but I wish that blog posts
were held to a slightly higher standard--I am a fairly fast reader, and had to
double back to reread large parts of the article to recalibrate as the article
started talking about being directed to games with fuzzy animals and facebook
games instead of shooters, when I expected the author to be complaining about
the wasd keys opening different menus rather than moving around the character.

This seems to be a pretty good argument for paying for better quality
journalism. I bought a copy of GQ, not exactly the highest brow magazine in
the business, admittedly, and the articles weren't riveting, but it was
efficient to read them, because they were written carefully and in the
traditional journalistic style, with a lede, nut graf, and transitions.
Furthermore, it's a magazine FOR MEN so most of the words were Anglo-Saxon and
avoid the errors that Orwell rails against in "Politics and the English
Language." I never felt like I was being jerked from one idea to another, and
I understood the point of the article if not from the titled or the images
associated with it, then at least from the first few paragraphs.

TL;DR: May there be truth in advertising, if bloggers can't write a proper
lede, we will have to pay for news.

~~~
andrewdupont
You do realize that opinion pieces don't necessarily follow the traditional
lede-plus-nut-graf formula, right? And that some pieces aren't meant to be
skimmed?

> _Furthermore, it's a magazine FOR MEN so most of the words were Anglo-Saxon
> and avoid the errors that Orwell rails against in "Politics and the English
> Language."_

I don't even know what you're trying to say here. I mean, I can guess, but it
makes me queasy.

~~~
nnythm
Yes, for example Foucault or Derrida is not meant to be skimmed, and part of
the point of reading Hegel is to struggle with it. It doesn't make sense to
make the reader struggle with an opinion piece, since you are generally trying
to persuade someone of your opinion. Although opinion pieces don't necessarily
follow the traditional lede + nut graf format, this one appeared to do so,
until the actual content was different from the first few paragraphs.

GQ prefers short Anglo-Saxon words because they think it's a style that men
prefer to read, and what I am trying to say is that using too many words that
were imported from French is generally used to make people sound smart because
it was once the language of bureaucracy, but generally makes things harder to
read.

Consider, "I don't even know what you're trying to say here. I mean, I can
guess, but it makes me queasy." This is an extremely clear sentence, and would
be pretty similar if translated into Middle English. This is generally the
argument that Orwell makes in Politics and the English Language.

<http://www.resort.com/~prime8/Orwell/patee.html>

------
nosse
This rant seems somehow familiar.

This kind of "girls not accepted in tech" was something "that gratifies one's
intellectual curiosity" at first. Now it's just repeating the same stuff, and
I don't think it's gratifying anyones curiosity.

<http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html>

~~~
shashashasha
It's not about curiosity here, and it's posted specifically because it's
familiar, not because it is weird or uncommon.

~~~
nosse
That's completely true. HN is about curiosity however and that's why nothing
should be educated to HNers by simple repetition.

------
compay
"Let me?" Don't ask for permission. And it's not that you "can be" just as
capable. You _are_ just as capable. Nobody needs to "let you" do anything,
just do it.

------
rickmode
I wonder if this is a at least partially due to the difference between gamers
/ geeks and the type of people that do PR. Perhaps the PR "normals" may not
know the geek culture that deeply.

Not that there isn't sexism in geek culture either. I'm just genuinely curious
if the PR types in the game industry are this colorblind.

------
Produce
This site's design is annoying. Does it really need to fade in that most
commented/most viewed sidebar _every_ time I scroll? Why the hell do I even
care about that when I'm trying to read the article? Goddamn marketing
monkeys, when will they get a real job?

------
scotty79
Dress like idiot, be ready to be seen as idiot.

Pink skirt? Face paint? Guy in a suit with comb-over would be treated with
similar condescending stance unless he could prove he actually plays.

I know it sucks and I hate it but people profile you by your look.

~~~
ericabiz
As a woman in tech, I am dumbfounded by comments like this one. It is
equivalent to saying, "Well, yeah, she was raped, but look at what she was
_wearing_. Maybe if she hadn't been wearing that..." Disgusting.

I can assure you the sexism doesn't change when you stop wearing skirts and
start wearing pants. I speak from years of experience. And honestly, as a man,
you don't have to even think about whether what you choose to wear would
suddenly get you treated as if you were a vapid teenager, or a toddler. You do
not have to make a choice about what you wear in order to avoid getting a
keyboard snatched away from you by a member of the opposite sex who assumes
you are stupid because of how you look.

If anyone ever wonders why there aren't more women in tech, you don't have to
look much further than these comments to understand. I am a proud, strong
fighter and I have been a successful tech CEO for years. But even I grow weary
of battling these types of comments so often.

~~~
sp332
Gamers don't see themselves as _most people_. You have to positively identify
with a subculture, otherwise you're part of the "majority" non-gamers.

Rape would be a lack of human decency. Treating someone as a non-gamer is
treating them like a "normal" person.

~~~
king_jester
> Treating someone as a non-gamer is treating them like a "normal" person.

How is assuming someone is incompetent because of their gender treating
someone as "normal"? It's normal in the sense that such attitudes are
prevalent, but it is a terrible way to treat anyone.

~~~
sp332
If you have an in-group or "clique", you just assume that most people aren't
in it. You learn to identify fellow members of a subculture at a distance:
clothes, hair, etc. The male-dominated environment of the expo _caused_ the PR
reps to mistakenly exclude women from their "gamer radar". Surely professional
PR guys don't think pissing off a game reviewer is good for sales. In other
words, the PR reps are _also_ victims of the crappy environment.

------
yason
I'm not sure I even got the point, it was a long text and the author seemed to
ponder aloud more than underline the root problem. But what I got was that she
was overrun by the representatives because she didn't set boundaries and
didn't refuse to accept their help. A simple "No thanks" would've gone a long
way.

There's no point in blaming the representatives: they probably try any angle
they can find to approach you unless you decline. Suppose you go to a
bookstore and the clerk comes over, asking "Can I help you?" and then you
answer "No, thanks. I'm just browsing." They don't know you if you're a good
gamer or a newbie, so you just need to tell them yourself.

~~~
saraid216
The difference here is that bookstore clerks are generally well-trained to not
ask questions like, "Are you sure you don't want the romance section?"

------
nsxwolf
I don't get these game developer reps. I've been to E3 five times in my
lifetime, going back to Atlanta 1998. There were always plenty of women
playing shooters.

------
seivan
Just wanted to clarify (and not to trivialize the issue here)

More often than not it's not developers who decide to add the achievements for
looking up skirts. It's the business monkeys and other people who have
"studied" game design but forgot to do hello world some where along the way.

Usually developers who decide the course of a game work their own indie
studio. And are smarter then that.

------
taskstrike
I could be totally wrong. Perhaps what the author assumes is an assumption of
incompetence based on sexism is actually additional attention due to
attraction.

If I was a PR guy hanging out all day with guys playing games in a booth near
me, and a girl showed up, the thought of "offering advice" to her would seem
appealing.

Just applying simple human logic here.

~~~
mindstab
"offering advice" is different than removing her from play and taking over. If
someone bumped you off a game and took over treating you like an invalid how
happy would you be. Poor tactic even for flirting. And it's a business
conference showing off wares, poor and inappropriate time for flirting too.

just no

~~~
taskstrike
I'm not sure PR guys at a gaming conference are Don Juans. He might be going
for this: [http://www.masterfile.com/stock-
photography/image/400-047792...](http://www.masterfile.com/stock-
photography/image/400-04779255/The-young-guy-learns-the-girl-to-play-
billiards)

Yes, theoretically they should all act professionally and give reporters equal
attention regardless of gender. But I find that in reality human nature
dictates behavior more than guidelines.

~~~
roguecoder
Which is why we need to be aware of human nature and override it with basic
decency.

If a woman is there to play a game and I take the opportunity to hit on her,
I'm failing to do my job (which is definitely not to hit on chicks) and I'm
treating her like a sex object instead of a fellow professional. Professional
spaces demand professional behavior: it is part of being an employed adult.

------
gavanwoolery
#FirstWorldProblems. If you want to fight for something, fight for the rights
of women who are really suffering throughout the world, through sex slavery or
misogynistic cultures/religions. It really bothers me that there is still a
"struggle" for women's "rights" in the US - equal liberties were won long ago.
Are there inequalities and assumptions made about each sex? Certainly...but
nothing worth fighting for. Use your voice where it matters...i.e. not here,
not concerning gaming.

~~~
Miky
Really? You're really saying that people should not care about rampant sexism
in the gaming industry just because some people have it worse? I suppose we
should stop working to help poor families in the first world because people
starving in third world countries have it much worse.

~~~
gavanwoolery
Actually, that is correct. You should help people in 3rd world countries
first. Most of the homeless in America are "voluntarily" homeless, or have
drug/mental problems. Even still, as homeless in America, they have it better
off than most people in 3rd world countries. The average person in a 3rd world
country lives off a few American dollars (equivalent) a day - and that is your
average person. Here, a homeless person can probably get that much begging in
a day. And calling it "rampant" sexism is ridiculous. We sexualize women,
obviously, because that is what sells. There is no shame in sexual attraction
(or depictions of it), no more so than the average square jawed, six-pack male
protagonists we create. Sexuality is an advantage in this world, not a crutch.
Let's stop pretending like its such a bad thing.

~~~
meric
I assure you there is sexism in developing and undeveloped countries, too.

~~~
gavanwoolery
Yes, obviously. It is a question of magnitude. Here, the worst sexism is maybe
job discrimination, but usually not even that because most employers do not
want to risk lawsuits, and in fact actively _try_ to diversify. Even still,
this is a relatively trivial problem. Do we stone women to death here for
cheating? Or not allow them to do (virtually) anything without their husband's
permission? Like I said, there are bigger wars to fight. Let's not waste
breath because someone thinks you can't play a video game, and you assume its
because they are sexist.

~~~
meric
I don't disagree your points, (whether someone wants to expend effort to solve
particular problems is up to them), its just I see you are dismissing other's
problems as "not important". i.e the "#FirstWorldProblems" tag in your
original post. The experience obviously was unpleasant enough for the the
original author to write a blog post about it, yet you dismiss it so readily.

"Actually, that is correct. You should help people in 3rd world countries
first. Most of the homeless in America are "voluntarily" homeless, or have
drug/mental problems. Even still, as homeless in America, they have it better
off than most people in 3rd world countries. The average person in a 3rd world
country lives off a few American dollars (equivalent) a day - and that is your
average person"

Let's say your next door neighbour gets into an accident and becoming disabled
in the process, cannot afford hospital bills and becomes homeless, you're not
going to _care_ , because you're donating to your favourite charity for third
word countries already? Personally I don't see anything wrong with people
helping people closer to them. - The helpers can help with more effectiveness
than people 5000km away because being closer they will have better
perspective. I also see nothing wrong with helping with your siblings
mortgages just because they're closer to you, starving children in the 3rd
world or not.

If _you_ don't want to "waste" your breath, then don't. I just don't see how
_you_ telling people how to allocate their resources will ever work out. How
do _you_ know your preferred allocation is the best? How do you know the
relative effectiveness of a person voicing their opinion about this issue
rather than some other? Maybe they are much better at articulating issues
relating to computer games than, food, for example. There's no way you can
know that for sure.

