
Elite Opinion vs. The Wisdom of Crowds - randomname2
http://quillette.com/2016/10/09/elite-opinion-vs-the-wisdom-of-crowds-the-intelligentsias-tendency-to-get-things-wrong/
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lhopki01
Wanting the referendum to be overturned doesn't mean that one is undemocratic.
My reasons for wanting the referendum overturned are the same reasons I don't
want referendums in the first place. Namely I believe that referendums work
directly against the way our democracies work. Currently we have a system
where parties vi for our vote. If a party then does things that we don't agree
with (e.g. promise tons of things and then renege on them) then at the next
election they can be voted out. The key point here is that decision makers can
be held accountable and decisions can be changed. In a referendum there is no
going back or accountability. This provides the incentive to lie as much as
possible to get your way. This was very evident in the referendum campaign
where the out campaign variously lied about more money than is possible on the
NHS, increasing immigration from Commonwealth countries and how much of our
laws originated from the EU. So if the decision to leave for 2% of voters was
based on these issues then the result of the referendum is based on a lie. Is
that democratic?

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CM30
But how much did the other campaign lie as well?

Did anyone here really tell the truth 100%? Heck, if the referendum was held
again tomorrow, what if the exit side won by a larger percentage of the votes?

How many referendums would it take for the result to be 'democractic'? Enough
til the side you want wins? Enough til everyone tells exactly the truth, makes
no personal attacks/dubious claims and everything is as 'fair' as it could be?

I'd rather just one referendum, and people learn to live with the
consequences, regardless of how much they personally like them.

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lhopki01
You're misunderstanding me completely. I don't think that if remain had won it
would be more democratic. I don't want referendums at all. I'm not alone in
that thought. Germany has actually outlawed referendums.

As for learn to live with the consequences that also doesn't work. It's not
possible to know a specific vote is the cause of this bad result. People can
never be that informed they can only work off the feel that they think the
country is doing well or it isn't doing well. Learning to live with the
consequences can mean a lot of hardship for some very vulnerable people.

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TheCoelacanth
Why single out the liberal elite? The conservative elite are also perfectly
willing to ignore the majority opinion. For instance, look at drug
legalization. The US has almost 90% in favor of legalizing marijuana with a
prescription and a majority in favor of legalizing it without a prescription,
yet neither has been done.

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Spooky23
There isn't a lot of wisdom in a mob, which is why most democratic
organizations are representative systems where there is varying degrees of
insulation from the passions of today.

It's pretty plain to see the effect. In the US House of Representatives, 2
year terms mean more stronger pandering from representatives and more radical
legislation that goes nowhere.

In the Presidency with 4 year terms and the Senate with 6 year terms, you tend
to get a more stable and moderating outlook. (With notable exceptions, such as
the horror show of the "solid South")

Some US states have referendum. I don't live in one so I'm not aware of the
nuances of less well known propositions, but what I do see seems to signal
that referendum isn't a mechanism that is bringing more enlightened
governance.

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AnimalMuppet
> The anti-democratic attitude of the liberal elite is absurd from a
> theoretical viewpoint because a democratic judgment represents the will of
> the majority and so whatever the majority decide is the correct answer, no
> ifs, no buts.

No, a democratic judgment represents the judgment of the majority. It is _not_
"the correct answer" in any sense. It is merely "the way we have agreed to
decide things".

