
Apple Tried Charging the Price of a New MacBook Pro for a Screen Replacement - plow-tycoon
https://luketully.ca/macbook-screen-replacement-costs-as-much-as-a-brand-new-model/
======
SirensOfTitan
They’ve also quoted me more than a whole new pair to repair some AirPods Pro
that I accidentally washed in the laundry. They didn’t tell me that was the
case when I was on the phone with them.

Apple uses a lot of customer hostile behaviors nowadays. Recently:

* I canceled the Apple TV+ year trial that came with my iPhone. While, I believe, they require other apps to allow access until the trial ends, they ended my access immediately.

* Apple Music pulls up a _slow_ interstitial almost every time I open it up to try to get me to pay. I have like 4 albums on my phone I listen to, it’s incredibly annoying how they’ve broken the music app to upsell their services.

I’m trying to get rid of most of my Apple devices in favor of anything else at
this point.

~~~
freeqaz
I just swapped from Android to an iPhone for privacy concerns. The other side
of the fence is pretty user hostile as well. Google makes you disable a lot of
functionality on the phone if you try to get out of their invasive tracking.
And they are constantly nuking apps that I use like Google Play Music and
Google Inbox.

Maybe check out PinePhone if you're interested in hacking something together!

~~~
iknowstuff
Fun fact, Google allows end to end encrypted backups, but Apple - due to
pressure from the FBI - decided to keep access to your iCloud backups.

[https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-
exclusiv...](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-
exclusive/exclusive-apple-dropped-plan-for-encrypting-backups-after-fbi-
complained-sources-idUSKBN1ZK1CT?il=0)

So if you use their cloud services, both Apple and Google have access to your
photos, but Apple has access to all of your whatsapp and signal conversations,
while Google does not (if you decide to password protect your backups).

And you have to use iCloud if you want to keep your 3rd party chat history
safe, unless you jailbreak to extract it from the file system.

iMessage is of course purposefully flawed to allow for MITM.

~~~
mafredri
This is not true for Signal, the conversations are safe as they are stored on
device only, not in iCloud.

[https://support.signal.org/hc/en-
us/articles/360007059752-Ba...](https://support.signal.org/hc/en-
us/articles/360007059752-Backup-and-Restore-Messages)

------
nvrspyx
About 4-5 years ago, my MacBook Pro's trackpad would randomly stop working and
I would have to restart my laptop a few times to get it working again.
Sometimes it would work for a few hours, sometimes a few minutes. I also dual-
booted Linux at the time and the funny thing is the trackpad never had an
issue under Linux. After quite a bit of researching, it led me to believe that
the ribbon cable connecting the trackpad to the motherboard was faulty due to
macOS never trying to reconnect to the trackpad if it loses a connection for
even just a moment.

I brought it to the Apple store and explained that I had tried everything
possible to resolve the issue without opening up the laptop myself, such as
resetting NVRAM, completely reinstalling macOS completely, etc. I explained
that I think that the ribbon cable is simply faulty and that it probably just
needed a replacement. The Genius said that they're going to bring it in the
back to do every single one of the things I mentioned that I already did.

I come back 4 hours later to pickup my laptop and they tell me that the issue
is the motherboard and that replacing said board would cost $800. I asked how
they determined it was the motherboard and not simply a faulty ribbon cable to
the trackpad, but they wouldn't answer the question directly. After requesting
their superior and restating my question a few more times, they told me that
they don't have access to replacement ribbon cables and that my only option
was a motherboard replacement, which itself would take about a week because
they needed to order the board. That was enough for me to take my laptop and
leave, even though they still didn't answer the actual question of how they
determined what the actual issue was or even confirm my hunch that the issue
was with the ribbon cable.

I bought a $5 replacement cable from Amazon, took about 10 minutes to swap it
out using an iFixIt tutorial, and I'm still using that laptop as my main
machine years later. In other words, they spent 4 hours to quote me an $800
fix that would take about a week to be done for something that was actually
only a $5 fix that would take no more than 30 minutes. I've been hesitating to
buy a new laptop for years because of that experience as well as the downhill
quality of MacBooks as of late, such as the keyboard (although fixed now),
touch bar, initial Catalina bugginess, etc.

~~~
userbinator
I believe Louis Rossmann had a video of something similar, where a
loose/unseated display cable was quoted by Apple as a motherboard replacement.

~~~
canofbars
He also has a video where the apple store person didn't plug the battery cable
all the way in after looking at it and just blamed it on the machine being
broken.

------
seb4433
Recently my iPhone XR stopped working after only a few months of usage. I
thought it shouldn't be much of a problem since the device still had warranty.
But I was very wrong... dealing with Apple Support (Germany) was one of the
most frustrating customer support experiences I've ever had.

My local Apple Store sent the phone to the repair facility 3 times but it
always came back with the comment "Couldn't replicate issue" although the
issue was clearly documented and reproducible by me and the Apple support
staff.

After a lot of phone calls, email back and forth, the manager of my local
Apple Store said there's nothing they can do about it, the only option that I
have left is to trade-in the defective device to get a gift card and then use
it to buy a new iPhone 11. Since I need a iPhone for my job (software-
testing), that's what I did. I was tired to fight for my right to get a
replacement device or a repair.

It's completely ridiculous. Apple's "warranty" is basically useless. But
somehow they can get away with it.

~~~
aosaigh
Did you try going via your consumer rights instead of their warranty?

Completely anecdotal I know, but I had a Apple Pencil fail on me outside of
warranty. On the phone they refused to fix or replace it. Once I mentioned my
consumer rights (which cover 6 years in Ireland
[https://www.apple.com/ie/legal/statutory-
warranty/](https://www.apple.com/ie/legal/statutory-warranty/) \- I'm sure
it's similar in Germany) they put me through to a separate phone line and sent
me out a new pencil.

~~~
currysausage
6 years? This is amazing!

In Germany, it's 2 years of statutory warranty (Gewährleistung), but there's a
shift in the burden of proof (Beweislastumkehr) after 6 months, so if the
retailer insists, it's up to you to prove that a defect was actually present
when you bought the item.

We talk a lot about the throwaway society and about planned obsolence, but six
years of statutory warranty could actually change something.

~~~
matthewheath
Most of the UK also has similar statutory protections (6 years in England and
Wales; 5 in Scotland), but after six months you have to prove the defect was
present at the time of purchase too...

------
StavrosK
I saw a video by Louis Rossman the other day that's relevant to this. He owns
an independent repair shop that repairs Apple products, and he said that Apple
has basically won the fight by locking down their supply chain.

Independent repair stores now cannot get Apple parts anywhere, so your only
repair option in many cases is to take the thing to Apple and pay the
predictably just-below-used price to get it repaired.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFA3szW9nWk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFA3szW9nWk)

~~~
fareesh
Wouldn't you also in theory be able to get a donor part from someone's laptop
which is otherwise busted?

~~~
StavrosK
He addresses that in the video as well (I think he said it wasn't economical).

------
hs86
With the declining repairability of MacBooks (and other slim notebooks), I
always have to think about this Pokémon comic:

[https://images7.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED127/56473bf64a6...](https://images7.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED127/56473bf64a66a.jpeg)

~~~
lexicality
Original:
[https://www.awkwardzombie.com/comic/hotspital](https://www.awkwardzombie.com/comic/hotspital)

------
andyhmltn
I'm currently having to go through a home insurance claim for a similar
reason. I stupidly took one of the keys off and bent a bit of plastic getting
it back on. The damaged part of the key is on the keycap itself, rather than
the mechanism underneath. Silly mistake but I imagine not super uncommon.

Took it to an Apple store and was quoted £700 to fix it which is equivalent to
almost half the cost of the laptop. For a single key. Absolute insanity.

~~~
ChuckNorris89
Damn, what a rip-off. Why not stop giving them your money and stop buying any
more of their products and services? Hit them where it hurts, their sales and
bottom line.

Just complaining about it doesn't get you very far as long as you still keep
shoving money in their pocket.

These days there are plenty of quality alternatives that are not Apple and
lowering their sales should send a clear message to their board.

~~~
pilsetnieks
It will send a message but I'm not sure it's clear at all.

I always see the suggestion to vote with your wallet but how does it even work
with a product with usable lifecycle of 5 or even 10 years? By the end of 2025
Apple will see a sales slowdown over the past few years. At that point I'm not
sure it's even possible to pinpoint specific reasons, like "customer couldn't
replace keycap on a 2017 model computer" which may or may not have been solved
for years already.

If you have complaints and you want them to be fixed, tell them
([https://www.apple.com/feedback/](https://www.apple.com/feedback/)), unless
you've given up completely on the company and won't ever return to it. Simply
voting with your wallet is the equivalent of ghosting in commerce.

~~~
lallysingh
They do already see their sales figures. They also know what their own repair
policies/budgets are. I absolutely believe that they're looking at what effect
changes on repair policies have on repeat sales.

------
pkorzeniewski
I can't wrap my head around Apple customers, most of the people I know that
use mainly Apple products had a surprisingly amount of major issues with them
but continued to buy Apple stuff only, it's like an addiction.. For example
screen stopped working in a 3-year MacBook so what did the guy do? Bought new
one because fixing was too expensive. Another one had a problem with the
keyboard in MacBook which is one of the most important things in a laptop, his
solution - do not part with a can of compressed air and wait to buy new one.
Next example - brand new iPhone was randomly loosing WiFi connection so the
guy sent it for a repair and had to wait 2 months (note that this was in
eastern Europe but anyway) to get it back.

I could go on and on with such examples and I can't believe that people pay so
much money and don't see a problem here. I never had any major problems with
any devices I use and they all cost several times less than Apple equivalent.

~~~
tobyhinloopen
The problem is that everything is just awful. Pick your poison.

Apple is the most expensive but also the least... bad.

Android is fine I guess. I still prefer iPhones. They have a much nicer app
experience. Android feels subpar and inconsistent.

Windows... is just awful. I deal with Windows every day on machines much
faster than my macbook and it’s just slow. Opening Explorer randomly slow.
Settings that are randomly forgotten. Sound and network settings spread out
over 5 config screens. One laggy app can easily make the whole system feel
unresponsive. Oh, and “this file cannot be opened because it is in use by
another program”. Thanks. What program? I dunno.

~~~
xnyan
It’s not an excuse and I’m not saying windows can work for you, but there are
quite a few horrible ways to configure windows and corporate IT has figured
all of them out. The state of windows in most enterprise deployments is
disgusting to me.

Huge progress has been made on consolidating settings in the last couple
years, unfortunately that means everyone is unhappy right now because old
settings are constantly being moved to more consistent locations but you still
need to know both the old and new ways.

------
millzlane
This price looks incorrect. Tier 4 damage would only be accidental damage that
the customer caused. Delamination of the screen doesn't count. Tier 4 would be
liquid damage. I think the rep was new to the internal tools that apple
provides.

A cracked display in a MBA retina 13in 2019 cost the customer $489.94 total.

~~~
merridew22
Phew! Thank goodness someone finally mentioned this. The next step is to ask
to speak to a manager and I bet this conversation would have gone a lot
better.

~~~
plow-tycoon
> The numbers Joe suggested in this conversation are either entirely
> fabricated, or belong to the cost of replacing the entire machine if its
> experienced catastrophic damage. But, after clarifying numerous times about
> what the numbers actually represent and comparing to previous repair bills
> for the same issue, my belief is that the rep used a false and obscured
> repair order to persuade me to replace my girlfriend's minimally damaged
> screen with a new computer.

~~~
millzlane
I have misquoted a repair before. Either I clicked the wrong box. Because
either I didn't do my do diligence or because I was scatter brained and copied
and pasted the wrong number. Regardless this is still a reflection of the way
apple trains the agents and QC team not catching this agents mistake.

You might want to call back and mention the delamination repair program. If
you're still within the 4 year purchase period it should be fixed for free.

~~~
plow-tycoon
I definitely accept that mistakes could be made, and do plan to follow up.
It's not within the repair window, but I'll see what can be done.

------
jonwachob91
I hope Luke Tully is around and reading these comments, the only contact he
has on his site is the twitter and he looks inactive on it.

But his 2015 MBP delamination is covered by an Apple Recall from many years
ago! He doesn't have to pay a dime to get that issue fixed.

I first took my 2015 MBP to Apple a few years ago for the delamination problem
and was told it was covered under a recall notice, but at the time I didn't
have up to 2 weeks of service time to be without my MBP, so I just dealt with
it. This Spring I finally called up Apple and told them I wanted to get my
delamination issue fixed. The Apple rep was completely lost about the recall I
was talking about, but about 15 minutes of looking around he found the recall
information. 1 week later I had my MBP back from the service center looking
b-e-a-utiful :)

~~~
plow-tycoon
Yep. I haven't updated the site much lately, and quit twitter years ago.

Oddly, in the interaction with customer support I posted, there is one comment
missing, and that's where the rep says the laptop is outsode the repair window
(4 years).

On my personal machine, I used the repair program multiple times because the
screens are just so vulnerable to delamination and damage.

To elaborate, when I experienced the issue on my machine in 2018, I also
couldn't let them ship it out for a week. I believe they made a note on my
file, which worked out in the end, but no subsequent technicians were able to
rely on that note and had to do their own inspection

~~~
millzlane
I just saw this. Even if you are beyond the 4 year purchase window. The repair
should only be considered a "display only replacement" I suspect if display
somehow got "fried" and failed the repair wouldn't not be a tier 4 repair.

You also have an option of just removing the anti-reflective coating using
solvents like 90% ISO or stronger.

~~~
plow-tycoon
I've seen people literally scrub off the coating, but it's not quite at that
point yet. Thanks for the suggestion though. I was just expecting to either be
told whether or not it's in the repair window, or what the display replacement
and battery would cost, if it did become unusable. Oddly, the one comment
where the support person confirms that it's not in the window was removed from
the transcript.

------
apetresc
The title and initial blurb of the article makes it sound like the rep tried
to somehow disguise the cost or downplay it.

But if you read the transcript, it's the exact opposite. The rep warned them
the repair would cost more than a replacement before he even quoted them a
price, and tried multiple times to explain why. He acted completely
professionally, and the situation itself is totally unremarkable too.

~~~
eptcyka
Does it matter if you're being told to fornicate yourself in a professional
manner? The tone of the conversation is irrelevant if the matter is
ridiculous. And don't try and frame it as though it wasn't. An independent
repair shop would be able to replace a screen for far less. That is of course,
if the screens were available for purchase freely.

------
PedroBatista
In the last +5 years Apple has been very busy securing their monopoly on every
bit or screw their machines have.

In certain models you simply cannot plug another ( Apple original ) screen, it
will not work. Also many "regular/mundane" chips are not available to anyone
but Apple.

Apple not only doesn't support any repair initiative, it actively sabotages
anything they see as a threat. Their Authorized Service Provider Program is a
complete joke done in a way to keep other people busy but set for failure and
to give Apple lawyers some leverage they can work with.

------
awinter-py
the right to repair movement is fascinating because it has no political
alignment (it includes city folk + farmers, for example), has passed
legislation in a lot of states, and implicitly comes with a bunch of other
digital rights (because repair is power)

it's also easy to understand -- there's no generation gap. Unlike privacy, the
harms are immediate and most people have experienced them.

repair.org is IMO doing as much good as EFF / ACLU on a way thinner budget

~~~
markdown
Unfortunately, going by Louis Rossmann's latest video, the right to repair
means nothing if you don't have access to the parts you need to fix Apple
products. And of late, Apple have been preventing their suppliers from selling
parts to third parties.

~~~
bubblethink
The notion of ip is so deeply ingrained in the US, that I doubt you'll see the
kind of Chinese bazaar that you really need. The US will only adapt when China
gets significantly ahead.

~~~
markdown
> I doubt you'll see the kind of Chinese bazaar

The point is that that's what you had (admittedly on a much smaller scale) in
the US, but that it's now disappearing, seemingly in response to the push for
Right to Repair. Watch his latest video.

------
jp0d
I must say that all the Apple products my wife and I have used so far, have
been very reliable. They're expensive but when you consider the quality and
durability they usually have better value. But their repair service can be
utterly rubbish sometimes. A few years ago my wife spilled some beer on her
MacBook Air and the keyboard stopped working. She took it to the Apple Service
centre and told her that it was a faulty motherboard. They asked for nearly
60% of the price of the laptop. She then took it to an independent repair shop
and they did it for a fraction of the cost.

~~~
plow-tycoon
I've been using MacBooks for 10 years, and while they've recently been less
reliable, I have had good experiences for at least 60% of the time. So if you
can get them repaired for a reasonable price, and they don't break that often,
I still don't see many good alternatives. Especially if you still like the OS

~~~
jp0d
very true. I've used several other brands of laptops, mostly because they're
cheaper. None have lasted more than 2 years. I've had Compaq, Fujistsu, HP,
Asus and a ThinkPad. Only the ThinkPad still works. I had one of the early
Intel Core 2 Duo Macbooks and it lasted 6 years before I sold it. It was still
working. My wife's Macbook Air is 6 years old and has only 4 gigs of RAM and
it still supports the latest OS and works. Even the battery last 4 to 5 hours
easily. I've tried working with Linux on some other laptops but I'd to deal
with a lot of support issues. Macs just work. I'm using a 2017 model Macbook
Pro with 16 gigs RAM, from work. The keyboard is not the best so they gave me
a Magic Keyboard. It's just a stress free computer.

~~~
plow-tycoon
I can feel all of that. I went from a custom gaming PC, which was ok aside
from having to re-install windows once every few months, then to a 2009 MBP
13" which lasted 4 years until I sold it for a ridiculous sum, then a late
2013 13" MBP which I used until 2018 until it was stolen. I then went to a
2017 non-touchbar model, which was just... fine, but had the keyboard issue,
delamination, and an insanely hard to troubleshoot deep-sleep/wake from sleep
issue which led to it being replaced by Apple under warranty (when I finally
re-produced the issue 100% of the time) for my current 2019 MBP 13" w/ 16gb of
ram.

Other than that, my impression of Thinkpads is that, while they seem a bit
clunky for me, they are at least in the top tier of non-MBP laptops. Likewise,
my brother just picked up a 2019 XPS 13" which has earned some praise from HN
folk and seems to be pretty solid. I'd personally like a gaming rig of some
kind, but if I'm realistic, I won't get that much use out of it until the
rainy season.

~~~
jp0d
I know what you mean. ThinkPads are definitely chunky and are in the similar
price range as Macs. If I didn't have the Macbook pro (16gigs with core -i5)
from work, I'd probably buy a Macbook air. I feel that the Air series offer a
lot of value for money. I have the touch bar Macbook pro. It's great. I use
the touch bar sometimes but all I really want is the finger print sensor.
Great feature. I'm wondering if Apple will ever open up the iPad OS a bit and
allow terminal access and enable installing compilers and dev environments
like the Mac OS. I wouldn't mind switching to an iPad in that case. The ARM
Macbooks are going to be just non-touch iPads with MacOS X on them anyway. I
don't do a lot of gaming. Mostly play casual games on a Nintendo Switch. So my
desktop PC has been barely touched in the last three years.

~~~
plow-tycoon
I'd love to see iPads become more versatile. The iPad Pro seems like a pretty
nice device, particularly because of the high refresh rate screen. But it's
very heavily consumption and illustration oriented. My iPad 3 has been
passable since it was new, with some degradation in performance, but I haven't
found a more interesting use for it besides YouTube and Pocket. I imagine that
it could be a great device for interactive systems or 3D modelling, but I'd
really be trying to justify the purchase at that point. I do also agree that
the fingerprint sensor is a nice addition, but along with it they made it
almost impossible to recover data in the event of catastrophic failure.

~~~
jp0d
Yeah, absolutely. IOS is very restrictive in terms of what you can achieve on
it as a developer or a power user. But it's an amazing device for artists and
content creators. Packs enough CPU power for their needs. My wife has been
considering buying one for illustrations etc. Now with the new iPad Air
supporting Pencil 2, the choices are even more confusing. She is torn between
getting the pro or the new Air.

------
ChrisMarshallNY
I'm not sure what's newsworthy, here. This is quite typical of any place, that
both sells and repairs stuff.

The cost of repair is calculated to be just below, or at, the cost of
replacement. It's unusual, but not unheard-of, to have it more than the cost
of replacement.

I've encountered this with TVs, phones, VCRs, stereos, non-Apple computers,
cars, and I have heard stories of this applying to buildings and homes, as
well.

And I find that infuriating, as it leads to waste.

~~~
dangelov
Not sure this is all that typical. While repair costs can get to a fairly
large percentage of the purchase price and thus not making sense in some
situations, it's not always the case.

I recently repaired a Sony soundbar system for about 30% of the purchase
price, so definitely not "at the cost of replacement". Replaced a phone screen
for 10% the cost of a new one etc.

~~~
ChrisMarshallNY
Depends on where the repairs are done.

Today, I'm returning a leased car. I had a small crack in the front bumper
(trailer hitch in a parking lot). It isn't one of the new sensor-packed
bumpers; just a vanilla one.

It cost $1,000 to repair, because they replaced the entire front bumper, and
the paint cost more than the part.

It also had to be done at the dealer, because of the lease requirements. The
body shop down the road would have done it for half that. I have since found
out that the dealer sends the car to a body shop anyway, and they probably
only charged half, so the dealer pocketed the difference.

I am never leasing a vehicle, ever again. This was my first, and last time.

~~~
fastest963
Which brand did you lease? I've leased Toyota's before and had no such
restriction. I could go to any auto body shop they just had to use genuine
Toyota parts for the repair. With my last lease I had to have the rear bumper
replaced Toyota didn't care where I got it done.

~~~
ChrisMarshallNY
It was a Subaru. The lease was very cheap. When I went to the body shop, they
were the ones that told me it needed to be done by the dealership.

All in all, it was quite cheap. I probably saved a lot of money, but I don’t
like surprises. I’ll gladly pay more, for no surprises.

------
locallost
Had the same issue with delamination and because they admitted to it being
their fault, took it to an Apple store just to see what they'll say. They said
that it is a known defect but, wait for it, not for my model and so in my case
it's my own fault by default. The person literally said yes it's delaminating
but it's a different type of delamination. There was another comical scene
involving googling by the employee which I will spare. It's not a big deal
because I wasn't in my hometown anyway and couldn't leave it for longer than 3
days, but still. That company is simply ridiculous, and I hope I don't have to
deal with them too much in my lifetime.

~~~
plow-tycoon
The first time I experienced this, I was travelling through the U.S in 2018,
in what seems like a similar event. I almost didn't get them to agree to do
it, but it was up to their discretion and they obliged. However, the kicker
was that they had to mail it away and it'd be gone for at least a week. I
tried numerous Apple stores on our way up through California. Some said they
did do MB repairs in store, but their hands were tied, they'd have to mail it
away. Insane.

------
coldtea
For what is worth, I had an iMac 27" out of warranty and Apple replaced the
screen for free.

It had started having an issue (condensation) after 3-4 years of use and
apparently the part number was from a run that could display was issue and had
free repair even if out of warranty.

The iMac cost like $3500 (corresponding local price), and the repair part was
listed as costing $750 but given for free.

Another good experience is when they fixed a MBP (charging adapter) from free
in a totally different country than the one purchased. Bought in Europe, fixed
in an Apple Store in the US.

That said, the first case is 7 years ago, and the other is 6.

~~~
eptcyka
It's cool that you've had a good experience. Maybe if more people spent 3'500$
on a computer, they'd get similar treatment.

~~~
coldtea
You'd be surprised. Thought that should have been 3500

------
fxtentacle
I'm sure they will argue that they are protecting consumers by preventing
potentially untrustworthy repair shops from buying authentic replacement
parts.

This is what an anti-competitive monopoly looks like. You cannot even choose
where to get your laptop repaired, so there is no possibility for anyone else
to offer, for example, a cheaper price for the labor. And the consumer pays
the forcibly higher price. Those shops that attempted to offer cheaper repairs
were retaliated against by Apple...

------
jonwinstanley
This is not surprising at all, the retina screen is one of the most expensive
parts of the laptop.

Lots of household appliances are similar to this too. If you have to repair
one of the main parts of a washing machine or a dishwasher a new one will be a
cheaper option.

Same for a car, a friend of mine flooded his engine by driving through water
that was higher than expected. His insurance company just wrote the car off as
it was much more expensive to replace an engine than to get a new car.

~~~
phonon
How do you figure? The screen costs Apple roughly $200. So they don't have to
hire skilled technicians, they replace the whole top of the laptop, so some
backlight, cover, wiring, case...still well under $500.

The _actual_ reason is they don't want Macbook components floating around on
the grey market, so they make the pricing for significant repairs impossible
to justify.

~~~
imglorp
I wonder if the actual mission of their "repair" shops is to boost purchases
from pigeons who have self-identified as maybe needing a new one. Repair is
not at all in Apple's interest. It's certainly not for customer goodwill.

------
jasoneckert
There was also a CBC documentary two years ago that investigated similar
complaints about Apple repair practices:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XneTBhRPYk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XneTBhRPYk)

Essentially, this blog post reinforces the findings from the CBC and indicates
that little has changed over the past few years regarding Apple's repair
practices.

------
bluedino
iFixit sells the screen for $599 if you want to repair it yourself.

PowerBook Medic will replace the screen on a 15" Retina Pro for $449 USD. I'm
sure smaller shops would do it even cheaper.

------
i_miss_unix
Sadly, this kind of thing with Apple has become the norm. I've experienced
similar myself and heard anecdotal similarities from friends and family. My
next mobile will likely be a PinePhone, and my next laptop will be from
System76. I'd rather roll my own private ecosystem anyway, as I don't do
anything in the "cloud". Between teaching my children on the Raspberry Pi and
mucking about with this and that, it's far less expensive and more sane to
stay out of anyone's ecosystem. I get that for a lot of people, it's all about
the apps. I guess I'm one of those odd, rare people who don't use a single
app. I just can't be bothered and I see no value in giving up what little
privacy I have remaining.

------
rograndom
I have a iPhone 5s that I only replaced because of battery issues. It's been
sitting in my drawer for a couple of years and thought it would be good to
hand off to one of the kids as a mp3 player or something. When Apple was
running a deal on battery replacements I sent it in for that. I got a call
saying that it has water damage and the main board was inoperable. I could
have it repaired for $600 or they could recycle it for me for $25. Sending it
back to me was not an option. It took 2 escalations to get someone who could
authorize returning it as I was unwilling to pay for either of those options.
It's now back in my desk.

------
reallydontask
This reminds me of the old mechanic's trick of providing an overinflated quote
to do work that they didn't really want to do.

~~~
afandian
They they should allow someone else to do it.

------
donseenu19
Had similar experience with Apple watch. For a broken screen replacement, they
quoted more than the cost of a new Apple watch (same model and color). I
pointed it out and called it ridiculous. They kept repeating the same bullshit
with forwarding me to 3 different teams for 1.5 hours. Finally I got fed up
and ended the call.

------
plow-tycoon
Thought I'd add here that all the values are in CAD, and that the one comment
missing from the official transcript is where the rep states that the computer
is out of bounds of the repair program window. It's an odd ommision, but
that's how it was downloaded.

------
AniseAbyss
There are literally hundreds of repair shops that cropped up the last few
years. Problem is you never know if the shop is actually good. Apple
guarantees quality- at an absurd price.

Lesson: treat your expensive electronics well. Or be like my brother with a
permanent cracked screen on his iPhone.

------
yinka
Apple claims on privacy is a joke, they only use that angle when it suits them
and especially to get one up up on Google.

Apple fan boys are very vocal and therfore help amplify the "Apple and
Privacy" message way more than it is in reality.

------
polote
the url should be: [https://luketully.ca/macbook-screen-replacement-costs-as-
muc...](https://luketully.ca/macbook-screen-replacement-costs-as-much-as-a-
brand-new-model/)

~~~
dang
We changed to that from
[https://web.archive.org/web/20200914113323/https://luketully...](https://web.archive.org/web/20200914113323/https://luketully.ca/macbook-
screen-replacement-costs-as-much-as-a-brand-new-model/). Thanks.

------
emsy
At this point it’s as if Apple is begging to be regulated. Absolutely
disgraceful. To be clear my issue is not with the price of the repair but with
the lack of alternatives due to Apple’s replacement part policy. I’m pretty
sure if the EU were to regulate them they’d still enforce their customer
hostile policies onTo their other markets.

~~~
arkitaip
What Apple is doing isn't different from what manufacturers have been doing
for centuries. Expensive repairs and parts have always been a way to earn more
money at the expense of the consumer. I'm not saying their behavior is
acceptable, just that it's very unlikely that laws are a solution to this
problem.

~~~
emsy
I think the issue is that faulty hardware isn’t actually that common. I have
more than 20 Apple devices in my family circle without any issue. But if there
were to e failure it would going to be costly and strenuous to repair. So I
don’t think customer choice will solve this issue. We need lawmakers to
protect the few unlucky ones from these customer hostile practices.

------
KiDD
You should be able to request refund. Call AppleCare.

------
Jonnax
A colleague of mine recently got a MacBook Pro, whenever they plug in an
external monitor the fans are pretty much fully on when doing not much at all.

They now loathe using it. These computers are so expensive. They seem to have
a ton of issues with ridiculous repair costs.

What's going on? The keyboard issue from before is another example. Clearly
they have the profit margin to ensure their products work well. And not charge
unreasonable prices for repair.

~~~
ubermonkey
Something is wrong with your colleague's machine, or something else in his
toolchain, because that's not normal.

The keyboard issues were really jarring precisely because Apple had, up to
that point, a really great reliability reputation - in my experience, on par
with the super-overengineered late-90s ThinkPads (IBM, not Lenovo).

I retired several PowerBooks and MacBooks at 6 or 7 years old that were still
physically _fine_ , but no longer appealing to use for Moore's Law reasons.

My wife's using my old 6 year old 13" Pro, and while I now find the keyboard
weird, it's utterly capable of anything she needs to do with it -- which is
pretty much a regular human duty cycle (ie, she's not running virtual servers
on it like I was in its initial life).

We then passed on the small Air she'd been using for like 8 years; it's in
daily use at a friend's house now as a spare platform (which turned out to be
a big deal, given quarantine). My guess is that Intel Macs are about to hit a
gate with the shift to ARM, and you won't be able to get 8 years out of one
purchased in 2020, but I could be wrong about that. (I mean, I definitely am
if you have relatively simple needs -- even if you get stuck at the last rev
of Intel-friendly OS X, there's software for you there that will keep
working.)

~~~
andreasley
Actually, loud fans are a regular occurrence when using external displays with
current high-end 15" MacBook Pros. It gets hot fast, especially when driving a
4K display and charging at the same time. The 13" MacBook Pro on the other
hand is basically silent in most circumstances.

~~~
ubermonkey
I have a high-end current 15" Pro, use a high-def monitor, and do not have
this problem.

------
dwighttk
I’ve also recently had some issues with Apple chat and phone support. Seems
like some of them are poorly trained.

------
mobilio
"Greed is good!" #sarcasm

Now serious... first company with $2T valuation. Investors should be satisfied
somehow.

I'm long time Apple user and fan. But their latest products are went to other
direction are too fragile. Previous generations was undying!

------
PaulHoule
Be careful.

If you have "infinite" prices in your mind (e.g. a Mac is always better than a
Dell) a rational Apple is going to soak you for all your are worth and try to
get you go into debt too.

------
braythwayt
There are two completely separate issues here, and they need to be
disentangled to have a productive discussion.

First, there is the question of the right-to-repair and to what extent Apple
is hostile to the existence of a viable second-party and third-party repair
ecosystem, neutral to it, or actively supports it.

Second, there is the question of the relationship between the costs of the
product and the costs of the things needed to repair the product, like
replacement screens.

The two are not entirely orthogonal, because many strategies for reducing the
costs of the product or increasing the utility of a working product have
consequences with respect to the costs of components and the ease of third-
party repair.

An example discussed on HN many times is the choice between user-removable
batteries and building a battery in. When it's built-in, engineers have more
options for miniaturization or increasing battery size and product life. The
consequence, of course, is that batteries are now expensive to replace, and
the batteries themselves are harder to get in a third-party ecosystem because
there is little standardization: Every device might have a different battery
optimized for that device.

If batteries were standard sizes as they are for many consumer devices with
removable batteries, engineers have less flexibility to increase battery life,
reduce weight, or reduce device size.

The same reasoning extends to replacing screens and keyboards. Supporting a
vibrant and viable third-party ecosystem means making engineering compromises
that have a distinct effect on the product's price and competitiveness in a
world where every review discusses device weight, size, battery life, &tc.

The very best thing for a third-party repair ecosystem is to have fewer
device-specific parts, fewer proprietary connectors, fewer components hard-
wired into place, fewer components that change from device version to device
version, &c.

The more different parts there are, the more that are introduced for a model
or two and then discontinued, the harder it is for the viability of a third-
party ecosystem with affordable options.

I feel that there's a deep and challenging tension between repairability and
the immediate, out-of-the-box product value. In some industries, consumers
value the ability to wrench their own product higher than in others. In
bicycles, for example, there is a great deal of conservatism around
engineering.

For all the bragging about new technology, the bicycle industry doesn't really
advance very quickly. What do we have now, twelve-speed rear clusters? Whereas
when I raced in the 80s, there were seven speeds back there. Whup-dee-doo,
where are the internal gearboxes? And the other big innovations are disc
brakes and electronic shifting? Compared to the advances in telephones, this
is nearly nothing. When I had a mechanical seven-speed rear mech, I also had a
physical phone hard-wired into my car. That was "mobile communications" back
then.

I'm not defending Apple, it's up to everyone to decide for themselves which
choices they think Apple should make. But we should accept that any choice for
making things repairable has an impact on the out-of-the-box value of the
device itself.

And if we want right-to-repair to be a viable and profitable business choice,
something has to change about the marketplace itself, namely:

1\. Get consumers to repair their devices far more often than they replace
them, and;

2\. Regulation.

I prefer regulation, personally. Yes, it's the bogeyman of "regulated
marketplaces." But it also creates a level playing field, so that repairable
devices do not have to suffer product reviews complaining about their price,
weight, size, lack of differentiation from other devices sharing common
standards, &c.

------
dc1rjj
Well, dont buy apple...

~~~
extremeMath
I agree, but if you are a fortune 500 company, you don't quite get to say
"no".

You need to provide it to users anyway.

------
chunsj
No one know why this is in the webarchive? Solved? Or...

------
helsinkiandrew
I wonder if we should be surprised at this. Modern devices (phones and
laptops) are designed to be small and cheap to produce in bulk in countries
with cheap labour.

Very few people will buy a more expensive, larger device that might be easier
to repair or extend in a few years time.

Doing bespoke repairs in high labour cost countries is always expensive. More
so when devices are small. It's probably cheaper to get a lower skilled worker
to replace the whole board than a higher skilled worker to fix a board
involving soldering that could cause further issues. Do we really think that
it's going to be cost effective to take apart and fix airpods?

If you want something that is more easily repairable, extendable, and
recyclable then a desktop/tower is the answer.

~~~
_ph_
That a repair of a modern device can be expensive is one thing, but here they
charged more than the machines worth for the replacement part. That is just
silly. The quoted labor costs were 150, which is still a lot but reasonable.
But more than a few hundreds for a new screen sounds off.

------
dvh
I don't see a problem with this. Lunar retro reflector is $1000 part but
replacing it would cost the same as new lunar mission.

Macbooks are made in factories mostly by robots in large volume. Replacing
part requires hard specialized manual labor and doesn't scale.

Thirdly, they are only asking for what people are willing to pay. My latest
computer cost €205.

~~~
marcan_42
Except if you actually read the transcript and article, most of the cost is
billed as parts, not labor.

