
Fujitsu's Citywide Surveillance - AndrewDucker
http://www.fujitsu.com/global/solutions/business-technology/tc/sol/greenages-cs/
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musage
> Currently, urban infrastructure is increasingly getting more complex as we
> face many social challenges, such as complicated crimes and unexpected
> natural disasters. This situation requires that the establishment of a safe
> and secure society become a global concern.

Where to begin... if you're looking for social challenges, don't look further
than people who can't think on an adult level being fed marketing materials by
people who are just as lost, and no longer seem to even feel the need to hide
it.

~~~
meri_dian
What exactly is your criticism of this?

~~~
musage
You know, part of me just wants to mirror that, and ask "what is your _actual_
question?", but okay.

Just in the sentence I quoted, "complicated" crimes is just padding, but of
course, you can't sell "getting more complex" with the argument of "crime
still exists". Then there's "unexpected" natural disasters, which is padding,
too. Of course, natural disasters aren't social challenges. "This situation"
\-- of which there is nothing left other than "crime exists" \-- always
existed, and what is a "global concern"? People all over the world have been
concerned with their personal safety for longer than history exists, so what
changed?

Nothing changed, and if I had to guess, based on what we know about
corporations and governments monitoring people who care about the environment
in the least I'd say they want to peddle total control to prevent uprisings
that _will_ come when the natural disasters (we can predict to get worse,
since we keep destroying our environment) get out of hand. But that's just a
bonus, without that it's just marketing gibberish, and that I needed to point
any of this out further eroded my faith in humanity.

~~~
anon151516888
>"Nothing changed"

I disagree. The most important thing that has changed and is applicable here
is that technology makes it absolutely feasible to prevent "crime exists". At
least the really bad ones.

The only things preventing it are: big brother scare mongering, privacy
"concerns" and funding.

E.g. you could near-eliminate car accidents due to drunk driving with a tech
solution. Same goes for gang violence, domestic abuse and bathroom rapes. Just
stick a camera in every stall, street corner and household room. Oh and send
police if the view gets obstructed or the camera damaged. A while of that and
people getting caught, and they'll quickly learn to not do it. Problem solved.

~~~
Zigurd
I suppose this is obvious, but evidently not to everyone: There is no example
of what you describe. In fact there are counterexamples of putting cameras
everywhere and still having crime. Places where there is little crime don't
have, and don't need cameras everywhere.

~~~
fvdessen
Singapour has put cameras everywhere and has a very low crime rate as a
consequence. While I don't want to live in such a society the model certainly
seems to work.

~~~
pavel_lishin
I'm not convinced that Singapore's cameras are the magic ingredient preventing
all crime.

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fortythirteen
I'd be worried, but given my experience with Fujitsu enterprise solutions,
we'll all be in the grave before tech support responds to Big Brother's
ticket.

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ktpsns
I like this cartoon: [http://www.fujitsu.com/global/Images/Use-case-in-an-
airport-...](http://www.fujitsu.com/global/Images/Use-case-in-an-airport-
f_tcm100-2900688.png)

It looks innocent, makes the impression of a childlike idea how to make the
world better. The isometric Legoland country airport supports this feeling
even more. The whole picture speaks one language: We don't harm.

~~~
pavel_lishin
Detection of suspicious individuals by _clothing color_ , of course. Evildoers
always wear a particular shade of purple.

~~~
chrischen
Yes but if the deep learning model says it it’s probably true.

~~~
kaybe
We're going to have so much bitter fun in the future..

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chillingeffect
It's revealing it offers Enhanced Security as well as Strengthened Marketing.
This points out how hard "the lords" are trying to make everything
predictable.

If they had it their way, we'd all be like chickens in cages - always
producing for them and completely unable to deviate from today's accepted
norms.

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bem94
In practice and in principle, this is horrifying. I don't trust the people
buying these systems, and I especially don't trust the engineers building
them. Nor do they give me any reason to trust them.

Is this sort of thing what we became engineers for? To facilitate the end of
privacy? Cmon, we're better than this.

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chaostheory
Used to work in the industry. I could have missed something but none of this,
feels new or novel. Systems like this have already been in operation in places
like Dubai and Singapore for years

The industry also has issues which may or may not have been resolved by now:

1\. It's not an industry that attracts creative or innovative talent.

2\. They're not willing to pay well for AI talent (this may have changed)

The end result is that you get mediocre implementations with horrible or
mediocre UX. Depending on how you feel about surveillance this is either a
good or bad thing.

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robert_foss
The marketing department must've been asleep at the wheels on this one.

~~~
jstanley
I don't know, this probably sells it pretty well to the kind of people who
would want to buy it.

We just have to remember that there are people out there who legitimately
think deploying surveillance technology like this is a good thing.

~~~
AboutTheWhisles
My biggest problems with things like this are that everyone is subjected to
it, but not everyone has access to it. In seems almost dystopian that our
surveillance applies to the people paying for it, but not the people deciding
on it. I can't watch a live stream of a politician's meetings, but governments
have access to where everyone goes with their car at all times.

~~~
gototo454
>I can't watch a live stream of a politician's meetings, but governments have
access to where everyone goes with their car at all times.

access via phones?

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659087
Detection of suspicious individuals by clothing color. Sounds like Fujitsu is
using the TSA training manual to train this system.

I'm sure "by skin color" will be an option as well.

Also note "strengthened marketing" and "customer counting" being listed as
selling points on the airport scenario of a "citywide surveillance" system.

~~~
marcosdumay
> Detection of suspicious individuals by clothing color.

Police seems a crime and reports that suspect is wearing a green shirt.
Surveillance system reports everybody that is wearing a green shirt on walking
distance of the occurrence.

~~~
pavel_lishin
A dozen people are arrested, one of whom is shot. Meanwhile, the suspect
changes into a yellow t-shirt in a phone booth and makes his getaway. He is
caught several days later, of course, as he would have been without the
cameras. Total licensing fees to the city are $12,000.

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rsbartram
Surveillance case studies in urban environment have shown to decrease crime
rates and more importantly violent crimes. Under the proper circumstances this
type of citywide surveillance can be a benefit to modern societies.

~~~
stordoff
The fact that London's crime rates are not significantly lower than comparable
cities makes me doubt this.

Even so, the question is larger than that - a) how well does it work (i.e.
would the money be better spent on traditional policing) and b) is it worth
what we are giving up (the ability to go about your business without being
monitored, tracked, etc.)?

