

Usability expert tears apart Windows 8 - marcieoum
http://venturebeat.com/2012/11/19/usability-expert-windows-8/

======
T-A
Wary after all these gloomy reports, I finally went ahead and repurposed an
old laptop to run Windows 8 a few days ago, half expecting to end up putting
Linux on it instead. The screen is officially too small (1280x800) and the
chipset (Intel's 965 Express) is not officially supported; I had to resort to
their Windows 7 drivers to get OpenGL. Needless to say, it has no touch
support.

And yet, I do not hesitate to call it the best Windows ever.

The optimization work which went into the kernel really shows on this old
hardware; where I used to get 3-4 FPS under XP Pro I now get around 13. Every
Windows program I have thrown at it, new or old (going back all the way to
Windows 98), just works.

Don't-Call-It-Metro is just a big launcher where I can pin and group icons of
programs I use a lot; I was already doing that anyway with folders on the
desktop, since it's much faster than navigating the old Start menu. I was
still maintaining an organized but nevertheless humongous Start menu out of
old habit and as a way to remind myself of less frequently used, "might be
useful in special situations" tools, but as MS noticed, I was not really using
it anymore.

Basic workflow: start laptop, wait a few seconds, log in, click Desktop tile,
and you are in the familiar Windows environment, just better than ever. Down
in the left corner of the taskbar, a couple of icons launch a much improved
File Explorer and IE 10 (which is scary fast compared to previous iterations).
Hover over them and you get a "lightbox" with views of currently open windows;
the same functionality extends to other application icons you pin on the
taskbar.

File Explorer does most of what the old Start button did, i.e. gives you quick
access to Documents, recently visited locations, Favorites, drives and groups.
Move the mouse cursor down to the left and bottom of it, and up pops a small
"Start" representation of the Start screen. Click that, and you are on your
big customized launcher. Hit Esc and you are back on the desktop.

If that isn't sufficiently similar to the old ways for you, you can right-
click the File Explorer icon to get a menu which looks even more like the old
Start menu. Still not happy because Start | Programs is missing? Right-click
the taskbar, check Toolbars | Desktop, and a classic menu is pinned which
includes, among other things, Control Panel | Programs. I don't think I'll be
using it, but I suppose somebody might. Choice is good.

As far as I can see, all the chatter about Windows 8 being oh so confusingly
different is just a storm in a teacup. Do people seriously expect workers to
be "retrained" to use this? Please. The new "concealed" stuff adds
functionality, but you don't really need it. Put the mouse in upper left
corner and you get small tiles of running apps, which you can click to restore
or right-click and close. Neat, but you don't need to know it. Swipe down from
the upper right corner and you get the famous charms with Search, Start and so
on; again, neat, but you don't need to know it. They just add new ways to do
things.

Oh, and finally... the desktop themes are gorgeous. :)

~~~
bunderbunder
For the most part, I agree - I'm using Windows 8 on my personal computer, and
at this point I have absolutely no desire to go back to 7. But I'm a computer
guy. So despite my initial frustration at having to go through yet another
round of Redmond Musical Chairs, it didn't really take me very long at all to
get back up to speed with the new UI changes.

That said, I do think that is a serious issue for businesses. Half the folks I
work with still aren't up to speed on Windows 7, and it has a much more
discoverable UI than 8 does. Not only is 8 an even bigger widget mover than XP
was, but having everything hidden offscreen so you need to be able to
independently think to hover the mouse against an edge of the screen to find
what you're looking for is going to be an absolute discoverability killer for
these users. No, I don't know why it is that so many people have a hard time
learning new UI. But they do, and it's a reality that can't be dispelled with
dismissive remarks.

------
zaidf
At the end, this is what matters:

 _I have great hopes for Windows 9 on mobile and tablets. Just as Windows 7
was “Vista Done Right,” it’s quite likely that the touchscreen version of
Windows 9 will be “Windows 8 Done Right.” I’ll stay with Win7 the next few
years and hope for better times with Windows 9. One great thing about
Microsoft is that they do have a history of correcting their mistakes._

~~~
mark_integerdsv
Your post above should be in the dictionary under the title: 'Apologist.'

...there may be further references to Stockholm Syndrome (he doesn't mean to
do this to me, that's just his process...)

MS has a history of just not 'getting' it with Windows. This is just the next
chapter.

~~~
gurkendoktor
What did MS not get with Windows 95/2000/XP/7? I don't think the "tick-tock
model" of Windows releases is reliable, after such a big and confused change
as Windows 8, I find it very likely that Windows 9 will be released to better
reviews.

~~~
mark_integerdsv
I see your 95/XP/2000/7 and raise you ME/Vista/8... perhaps I have been a
little selective, or perhaps the word 'history' is a iittle vague, I think my
point is clear though and IMO well supported... by history.

~~~
gurkendoktor
Yes, _exactly_ \- that is why the original citation makes sense :) ME & Vista
sucked, but the next versions were great. There is no long-term tendency
towards suckiness, it's more like a rollercoaster, and that's why waiting for
Windows 9 is a solid decision IMHO.

~~~
mark_integerdsv
Yes, _this is the freaking issue!_ People have to use this abberation formthe
next few years!

How is the fact that it _might_ get better any form of comfort whatsoever?

This is battered woman logic at it's finest... I really cannot understand how
you could argue that it's all honky-dory brcause it's been hideous before but
it got better, so just knuckle under for now and it should be ok at some
uncertain point in the future.

~~~
gurkendoktor
No, because nobody _has to_ use Windows 8 for the next 8+ years. There is
absolutely no obligation to. Just like nobody ever had to use Vista or ME.
From the OP-

> I’ll stay with Win7 the next few years and hope for better times with
> Windows 9

------
freditup
I think he's right in a way, and wrong in another way. The combination of
metro and desktop programs being used together in Windows 8 is somewhat of a
usability nightmare. However, only using one or the other primarily works
great.

On my laptop for example, I primarily use the desktop features and regular
programs. The only time I really touch the metro-styled areas is when I search
for a program or file. This sort of a workflow is almost exactly like one
would have on Windows 7, and isn't hard to grasp at all.

On a tablet, users would primarily use the metro-styled area (or only use it
depending on their version of Windows 8 I guess). I suspect that this wouldn't
be too mentally taxing, although I haven't tried it.

The problem then is that this kind of use still basically then divides Windows
8 into two different operating systems, which seems to go against Microsoft's
goal of merging the UX on different devices. I don't know if there's a real
answer to this - I guess we'll see in the next Windows version as the article
states.

~~~
krakensden
It doesn't make a lot of sense to my why Metro applications need to be
fullscreen, especially if lots of applications are supposed to work on a phone
form factor too. Stick them in some standard chrome at a standard size, and
let them float if the user wants them to float.

~~~
m8urn
What's funny is that moving away from full screen apps was the entire premise
of windows in the first place, not to mention the reason for its name. We did
full screen apps in the 80's and hated it back then too.

------
w1ntermute
Something to keep in mind is that regardless of the issues with Metro, you can
easily ignore it by using software such as Start8[0], which readds a start
menu and goes straight to the oldschool desktop when you log in.

Windows 8 has significant performance improvements over Windows 7, so there's
no reason not to replace Windows 7 with it at this point for regular, old
laptop/desktop use.

0: <http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/>

~~~
tadfisher
As a Gnome 3 user, I am overcome with a strange sense of schadenfreude.

~~~
anonymous
Strange, as a KDE 4 user, I too was overcome with a sense of schadenfreude,
when I saw Gnome 3. </joke>

~~~
jrogers65
As an XMonad user, I am overcome with productivity and have no time to care
about the way others work.

~~~
RobAley
As a Unity user, I'm just happy in my own little world.

------
frooxie
I've used Vista until now, but I'm planning on buying a new stationary
computer soon, and I'll probably buy Windows 8, mainly for the improved
security features (but also the improved speed/boot time, file copy dialog,
Reset & Refresh and File History). From what I hear, it's possibly to largely
ignore the Metro interface, which is what I plan to do.

Would anyone who's used Windows 8 recommend me to buy Windows 7 instead?

~~~
dagw
If you simply ignore the Metro thing and use the desktop, I find Windows 8
better the Windows 7 in every way.

------
nsns
From reading all these reviews, it seems that simply adding a way to disable
"Metro" on desktops and bringing back the Start button, would please everyone.
There's only one recurring complaint - one that could be easily fixed. It's
not really a "Vista situation".

~~~
m8urn
The problem is the bigger picture here--Microsoft wants to phase out the
desktop and move us all to Metro so we have to buy all software through their
app store. I would guess that in the near future we'll be talking about
jailbreaking windows just to install our own stuff. It's the only explanation
I can find for Microsoft completely ignoring how much everyone hates Metro.

~~~
panacea
I see a different picture. One where they're desperately trying to kick-start
their mobile plaform, so they're unapologetically shoving it under the noses
of as many customers as possible, and the only way they can see to do this, is
by shipping it as the interface of Windows.

Once they've got app developers making enough apps for the mobile platform to
have a viable evosystem, they can uncouple it from Windows desktop somewhat.

~~~
andybak
This is the clearest explanation I've read. Microsoft may have convinced
themselves that Metro is a viable desktop UI but that is post-facto
justification.

The real reason is 'developers, developers, developers'.

~~~
mkup
If the real reason was 'developers, developers, developers', Microsoft would
not have created the walled garden, a clone of iOS App Store.

'Developers, developers, developers' want open, bazaar-style platform, like
Win32, they do not want curated cathedral-style shop where Microsoft can kick
out the competitors from.

~~~
recoiledsnake
Is that why developers are trampling over each other in a stampede to the iOS
store?

They're fearful of malware and battery-sucking-always-running services and
apps like some Android apps.

This way, they start with a clean slate on WindowsRT and Metro apps and then
maybe relax some rules

~~~
mkup
I'm not trampling over anybody in a stampede to the iOS store, and also I'm
staying at Win32 and ignoring WinRT platform completely precisely for that
reason: lack of developer freedom.

I'm pretty sure that Microsoft will drop entire WinRT thing someday, or there
will be alternative Win32 implementation from other vendor. As for WinRT, they
have invented a lot of similar toys last years, played them for some short
time, and abandoned them.

In any case, Win32 code base and user base is too large, so this platform will
be supported in some way for the next 50+ years.

------
Encosia
And, this is what he initially had to say about the iPad:
<http://www.useit.com/alertbox/ipad-1st-study.html>

~~~
stevenwei
Keep in mind that iPad study focused on UI issues with third-party apps. In
particular, noting the inconsistent behavior between those apps.

------
sk55
Blog post that Venturebeat links to:
<http://www.useit.com/alertbox/windows-8.html>

~~~
yuhong
And discussion: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4802332>

------
tangue
All this bashing on Windows 8 reminds me of the first version of OS X,
Cheetah. Apple proves the pundits wrong. I wish Microsoft the same.

~~~
snogglethorpe
Yeah, but Apple is, despite their (myriad) flaws, pretty darn good at the
"making a usable OS" game.

MS, well, not so much.

~~~
recursive
MS seems pretty capable of making a usable OS. Have you used Windows 7?

------
m8urn
One thing I actually have trouble with is not being able to exit an
application. You can tell me all you want that idling in the background uses
few resources, but sometimes I would rather just exit. I blame Steve Jobs for
that one, damn you Steve Jobs!

~~~
gman99
Drag down from the top to 'close' an app.

------
m8urn
One of the most annoying things about the metro interface is how they forced
such a drastic change even on Server 2012. Metro may in fact turn out to be
more usable some day but when we have work to do, we don't have time to play
around with new toys. I recently had to get a 2012 server up and running
quickly, but spent half my time learning all the secret and completely
unnatural hovering places and clicks. I hate to admit it, but I actually had
to Google how to restart in 2012.

