
Gut Microbes Combine to Cause Colon Cancer, Study Suggests - montrose
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/01/health/colon-cancer-bacteria.html
======
aoner
Tangentially related, when implants are placed there is a so called "race to
surface" where bacteria try to form a biofilm before the immune system can
react properly.

Quote _:

After adhering to the surface, the bacterium starts to divide and encapsulate
itself for protection against the host organism’s immune response. This layer
of protective matrix, mostly consisting out of polysaccharides, also shields
the bacteria from effective antibiotic treatment. The first stage of the
biofilm formation is complete and subsequently the present bacteria start to
form colonies increasing the internal pressure in the biofilm, which starts to
expand.

_
[https://www.researchgate.net/figure/259382333_Figure-1-A-sch...](https://www.researchgate.net/figure/259382333_Figure-1-A-schematic-
representation-of-the-race-for-the-surface-between-the-bacterial-biofilm-co)

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huy-nguyen
This is very interesting. It looks like a few subtypes of colon cancers may
join the list of cancers caused by bacteria (H. pylori in stomach cancer) or
virus (HPV in cervical cancer, Hepatitis in liver cancer). Every bit of
preventive care against cancer helps and hopefully a vaccine against these
bacteria can save many lives in the future.

~~~
ams6110
Is there such a thing as a vaccine against a bacteria? I thought vaccines were
for viral infections.

~~~
openasocket
There very much are! For example, Diptheria, Pertussis, and Tetanus are all
caused by bacteria, and we have vaccines for all three

~~~
refurb
The interesting things about diptheria and tetanus is that the vaccine is not
targeted against the bacteria, but rather the toxin they produce.

If you've been vaccination against both of these diseases and are exposed,
your immune system will eventually mount an attack against the bacteria, but
already has antibodies floating around that inactivate the toxin, which is
what is responsible for the severity of the diseases.

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taeric
It is kind of scary to see some of the "old guards" of the medical advice I
grew up with getting basically tossed. In an exciting way, I should add.

Ulcers, in particular, was huge. So much of previous advice for dealing with
them was just flat out wrong.

If this pans out, I'm very interested to see where it goes next.

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steamer25
Could you point out some of the updated advice on ulcers?

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cscheid
[https://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/medicine/laureates/2...](https://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/medicine/laureates/2005/press.html)

~~~
taeric
Thanks for giving that link. Highly recommend reading it for anyone. And,
honestly, this makes me think I should be reading the announcements of all
Nobel prizes now. Did a really good job summarizing the reasons.

~~~
Onewildgamer
Is there any cure for it apart from the restricted use of antibiotics?

~~~
taeric
I don't actually know. :(

My understanding would think diet change could work. But only if you manage to
starve the bacteria. Anti biotics are much more straight forward and effective
here. Obviously finish your dose.

That said, I've never had an ulcer, so have not actually read much. Other than
finding it was none of the root causes I heard growing up.

~~~
Onewildgamer
Thanks :)

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ValentineC
It's scary that Bacteroides fragilis is being seen as some kind of "autism
cure" [1], and some people actively seek out probiotics _with_ it.

[1] [https://www.nature.com/news/bacterium-can-reverse-autism-
lik...](https://www.nature.com/news/bacterium-can-reverse-autism-like-
behaviour-in-mice-1.14308)

~~~
TheAdamAndChe
Huh. The wikipedia page of bacteriodes fragilis says that it's an obligate
anaerobe[1]. I thought that our bodies were filled circulating oxygen-rich
fluids. How can obligate anaerobes surivive in our bodies?

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacteroides_fragilis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacteroides_fragilis)

~~~
DoreenMichele
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3568965](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3568965)

Gangrene can be treated in part by using a hyperbaric chamber to increase
oxygen content of the body. Presumably, if our tissues were all oxygenated,
gangrene would never happen.

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2_listerine_pls
If anyone is interested about the topic, there is an introductory MOOC from
Wageningen University about the intestinal microbiome and it's effects on
health.

[https://www.edx.org/course/nutrition-health-human-
microbiome...](https://www.edx.org/course/nutrition-health-human-microbiome-
wageningenx-nutr104x)

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agitator
What I'd like to know is which types of diets either inhibit/promote the
growth of these bad bacteria. The types of bacteria in your gut being linked
to parents or young age, might just be a symptom of learning your diet from
your parents.

~~~
acct1771
Anecdotal evidence from someone who's been through some of the worst digestive
issues possible (stops in involuntary peristalsis/motility, food not
digesting) due to "bad" bacteria being continuously introduced from infection
elsewhere: yogurt.

Specifically kefir/filmjölk. Buy a bottle, take a serving in the morning, and
at night if you like/can afford.

I've turned my life around. Friends have stopped proton pump
inhibitors/antacids like Prilosec/Omeprezole, etc, because of this simple
lifestyle switch (one serving per day). I take many more.

~~~
acct1771
Also, foods with digestive fiber feed good bacteria, and stop them from
munching on YOU, aka, gut inflammation, which is also a big thing we're
somehow just learning about now, with relation to how it can ruin your entire
life (no exaggeration) with stuff like cancers, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's most
likely, etc.

~~~
Onewildgamer
Would like to hear more about how the change in your lifestyle and food habits
made a difference. If you don't mind sharing, you can email me, my email id's
in my profile.

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car
Since this study found biofilms in colon cancer, I'd like to point out this
recent discovery on the involvement of bacterial phage in biofilm formation:

[https://biox.stanford.edu/highlight/dangerous-liaison-
bacter...](https://biox.stanford.edu/highlight/dangerous-liaison-bacteria-
viruses-league)

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DoreenMichele
_Two types of bacteria, Bacteroides fragilis and a strain of E. coli, can
pierce a mucus shield that lines the colon and normally blocks invaders from
entering_

The above text in the article contains a link to an abstract. The abstract
does not talk about piercing the mucus lining. It talks about biofilm.

Biofilm is essentially a large colony of bacteria, so large it begins
terraforming the body in order to create conditions conducive to self
preservation. I have seen a number of articles over the years on how to
successfully break up biofilm and thereby reverse antibiotic resistance. They
generally boil down to finding some means to make the environment less acidic.
There is generally a strong correlation between inflammation, acidity and
infection.

This is probably not a simple relationship. The terraforming activities of
biofilm suggests bacteria will foster acidity to promote inflammation etc. So
the relationship is interactive. It is not as simple as "acidity causes
antibiotic resistance".

I don't have these studies at my fingertips. I have no plans to try to dig
them up. I am leaving the comment so that other people can look into that if
they are interested.

I wasn't reading this stuff in order to support debate points in an online
forum. I have a genetic disorder that predisposes me to developing antibiotic
resistant infections and I was trying to suffer less.

So, you can take this comment as testimony that these studies exist and may
have bearing on the topic of discussion here.

But I am not going to debate this with people who are inevitably monstrously
disrespectful towards me and who act like the last 17 years of my life did not
happen because I can't link you to a study. The reality is they don't get any
less monstrously disrespectful when I do link to studies and supporting
articles and explain my thinking etc. So I don't plan to play that game today.

TLDR: If you are interested, you might go looking up studies on how to break
up biofilm. They do exist and they contain potentially useful clues to how to
stop this kind of colonization of the gut by hostile invaders.

~~~
epmaybe
I have always been taught that antibiotic resistance came from bacterial
mutation. Are you suggesting that this biofilm is contributing to this
resistance as well or instead of mutation?

~~~
DoreenMichele
My dad fought in WW2. He used to tell this story:

First, invaders would toss a grenade into a room, stunning all occupants, then
promptly rush in and capture them at gun point.

Then people began creating a safety zone in the corner with sand bags. When
the grenade hit the floor, you dive for cover. After it goes off, you stand up
with your weapon, getting the upper hand on the soldiers entering the room.

Then they began tossing the grenade without pulling the pin. People dove for
cover and waited for the grenade to go off. Meanwhile, you promptly enter and
now you have the jump on them.

So then people would hear the grenade hit the floor and look to see if the pin
had been pulled before deciding how to react.

When antibiotics were introduced, the world announced the end of disease. Now,
we have antibiotic resistant _super bugs._

Antibiotic resistance is an arms race. It is probably not one dimensional. If
infectious process were one dimensional, then the initial prediction that
antibiotics heralded the ended of disease should have been accurate.

But the only thing I am trying to suggest is that studies exist and people who
are interested can look them up for themselves, read them and draw their own
conclusions. I am sick to death of trying to discuss what I think about such
things. It is never a positive experience.

~~~
epmaybe
Sorry that you haven't had a productive discussion with others regarding this.

I just remembered that I have indeed heard about biofilms and their ability to
prevent antibiotic activity. However, I have only heard about them in the
context of secretions by specific kinda of bacteria (e.g. pseudomonas
aeruginosa) that form this wall around foreign objects preventing the efficacy
of antibiotics. It is why we have to change out certain catheters after a
specified amount of time.

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bengalister
I am wondering if the type of bacteria they mention is the one that can be
found in probiotics. I think I suffer from intestinal candida (I have many of
the symptoms) and medical exams of my intestine did not reveal anything
(Helicobacter Pylori had been tested but not candida). Thus I have reduced
drastically my carbs consumption and also take some probiotics to well balance
the yeast/bacteria ratio in my gut.

~~~
arkades
Probiotics are typically various strains of lactobacillus. Although E. coli
and B. fragilis are “commensal flora,” they can be extraordinarily pathogenic.

I don’t think any company wants to take on the liability of feeding you a
bacteria with a ~20% mortality rate (the BF) and trying to ensure their
cultures never get contaminated with a more toxogenic strain -and- that no one
takes it the wrong way (oh, did you bite that capsule open and get the B.
fragilis into your peptic ulcer...?).

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dghughes
If you do develop colon cancer and are treated with certain chemo drugs some
types of bacteria may be eating the drug.

[http://science.sciencemag.org/content/357/6356/1156](http://science.sciencemag.org/content/357/6356/1156)

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sharpshadow
What do these microbes feed on?

~~~
marz0
They eat certain carbohydrates (such as fiber) [0] that we consume and aren't
able to digest by ourselves. This is why it's recommended to eat fiber [1],
which many people do not eat enough of. [2]

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gut_flora#Metabolism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gut_flora#Metabolism)

[1]
[https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/11/161117134626.h...](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/11/161117134626.htm)

[2] [https://www.webmd.com/diet/guide/fiber-how-much-do-you-
need#...](https://www.webmd.com/diet/guide/fiber-how-much-do-you-need#1)

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ainiriand
Kind of related:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzPD009qTN4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzPD009qTN4)

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Pica_soO
Maybe the interesting question is what allows for the mucus lining of the
intestines walls to deteriorate that much, that those strain of bacteria
settle in.

