
Ask HN: Where do you stand on privacy? - h34t
During my first quarter-century of life I've already lost money to a professional con artist while starting my first business (@ 20), quit a relatively high profile/responsibility position because of corrupt leadership, resulting in high tensions due to reputation risk for a political family (@ 22), and severed ties with a close business partner due to manipulation and dishonesty (@ 24). Last month a friend called one of my roommates to come over at 3 AM because a guy (casual acquaintance of all of us) was threatening to break down her door and rape her.<p>And I grew up in one of the smallest most conservative towns around, in one of the most sheltered and safe families I've heard of -- all of this has happened only since I left high school and had the freedom to explore the rest of the world. (Granted, I am not a normal human being. My understanding of risk allows me to safely undertake many activities that some would find terrifying, and I have a strong drive to have new experiences which ensures close contact with a great diversity of people, cultures, and situations).<p>Just yesterday I began removing all my info from Facebook, and was promptly greeted with 3 messages from my friends asking me who my new love in life is -- Facebook had courteously notified each of my loosely-acquainted contacts that I was "no longer listed as single". Last fall, I discovered that my cousin was divorced when his wife took him off her friend's list (I'd been out of the country at the time, and he wanted to tell me face to face). Surely my experiences here are not unique.<p>Neither of these online experiences caused me any physical or financial harm, but are they not examples of how these services can have unintended consequences, which could be dangerous when involving the wrong people? Think "Black Swan" here. It only takes one really rotten egg to spoil the rest of your life.<p>So I'm re-thinking my stand on privacy and have yet to come to any conclusions, but am being conservative in the interim. I used to be entirely "pro-exposure" -- I deliberately marketed myself aggressively online because I figured that that was the best way to "win the game" -- but these days I find myself taking as much personal info off the net as I can. Do you think I'm making a mistake? What sort of "happy medium" do you think might be appropriate? Where do you draw your line on privacy?<p>Like many people on this forum, there's a good chance that my professional ambitions will necessitate attempts to draw public attention to myself and my work in the future, so this really isn't an issue that I can ignore. I think it's important, and I want to be smart about it. Any ideas, experiences, perspectives would be much appreciated.<p>Cheers.
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thinkcomp
Your experiences sound fairly similar to my own. When I incorporated, I was a
freshman in high school, and the lawyer I used to file the papers hired me to
build a web site for him. He never paid the bill in full. (I paid his, of
course.) I've also had my share of negative experiences with business partners
who respectively stole money from customers, stole common shares in my company
from me, and wanted to steal information from customers. Each time, I thought
I'd learned my lesson, to no avail.

In general, from my perspective, if you find yourself disagreeing with
(meaning "being more conservative than") most people in business about what
constitutes an ethical solution to a problem, you're probably right. Most
businesspeople have no morals. It took a while to get used to that.

I have a biased view on Facebook and privacy, but a legitimate one
nonetheless, I believe. You can find it here:

[http://www.news.com/Will-security-become-Facebooks-
Achilles-...](http://www.news.com/Will-security-become-Facebooks-Achilles-
heel/2010-1029_3-6231585.html?tag=nefd.top)

~~~
edw519
"Most businesspeople have no morals."

Not my experience. You need to meet new businesspeople.

I would say, "Some business people have no morals. They ruin it for the
majority that do."

~~~
mrtron
I believe I am gifted with a good judge of character. I have only been screwed
over by people a few times, and was always expecting it from that person.

I have met 3 successful people in business that are what I would consider
honest and straight shooting. I have kept in contact with all 3.

I have met hundreds of unsuccessful people who fall into the 'have morals'
category.

The majority of people who I have met who have been very successful are
snakes. I have met a few new billionaires, and the tactics that they used even
against their employees and friends were very shady. One of them bought out a
partner for a very low amount because he knew they were about to sell at a
very high valuation shortly.

What I have discovered is most people play the game to win, and rarely play
with integrity. I mean this all in a very non-judgmental way (even the snakes
part!), people should live their lives by their own moral compass.

~~~
edw519
"What I have discovered"

What I have OBSERVED

Like I said, my experience is different. I have conducted business over the
years with many very honorable (and usually rich) people who often were able
to conduct business with an understanding or a handshake. Maybe things have
changed, but there are still a lot of people who spend a lifetime building an
spotless reputation and protect it dearly. I sure hope you get a chance to do
business with more of them in your future.

~~~
mrtron
No, not what I have observed. What I have discovered. I have met a large
enough sample set to make these statements.

I am judging their morals and how honorable they are against a scale that I
perceive to be true. Honor and morality is highly subjective.

Even within the most honest folks I have met, very few reward the people they
stood on the backs of to make it to the top. Woz gave some of the original
Apple developers over a million dollars of his personal stock in the company
as they were about to go public because he felt they were under-compensated -
how many people would do this?

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pchristensen
I'm not sure how privacy works online, or who sees what. Having said that, as
a hacker I probably understand it better than most regular people. When I
decide to put anything ( _anything_ ) online, I keep two things in mind:

1) Anything I put up can be seen by anyone (not just the people I would prefer
see it)

2) Anything I put up will be around forever and I can't unring that bell.

With those points in mind, here are some of the things I _haven't_ put online:

-the company I work for

-my home address (I think I've mentioned the city, I have mentioned the metro)

-any pictures of my daughter (maybe she has slipped in the background of some)

-religious affiliation and (for the most part) political views

One the other hand, I've gone out of my publicize (here and on reddit) things
I've written on technical and business topics. I want that stuff to be found,
but I try to make sure it's something I wouldn't mind someone pulling out 10
or 20 years from now. My goal is that the worst thing that could happen to me
based on what I publish online is that I'll be accused of being dumb or naive.
I don't want my friendships or family to be affected by some web fad.

------
edw519
I value my privacy so much that I have no account on any social network and
never will. A very few number of people have my cell phone #. Anyone can send
me an email anytime they want.

You say, "I deliberately marketed myself aggressively online because I figured
that that was the best way to win the game".

What game? I don't see the logic in that at all.

People pay money to solve their own problems. Provide them with a solution.
That's the only "game" I've ever been interested in "winning". The rest is
smoke and mirrors.

If you have a popular blog or had written a book and positioned yourself as an
expert, that would certainly help your marketing effort. Of you could just as
easily spend that time advertising, networking, and pounding the pavement the
old fashioned way to generate business. At least that way, you preserve your
privacy.

Losing your privacy is like scattering feathers in a storm. Gone, never to be
put back into the pillow case again. Ask him:

<http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/11/a_lesson_for_us_all>

~~~
xirium
Or this fellow: <http://www.bash.org/?203247>

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bayareaguy
I've purposely made a lot of my real life information easy to get by anyone
who actually knows me. If you knew the right url, you could have my address
and phone in a second, which is exactly what I want. However, I generally
avoid leaving anything around online that text technology alone could use to
connect my comments back to me and I change my online identifiers every year
or so. I'm sure someone who got access to all my personal DSL records for a
few years could connect the dots but that doesn't worry me much.

Hmm.. this account is about 257 days old now. Thanks for reminding me to
abandon it in about 3 months.

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spydez
I don't put anything online unless I'm comfortable with the idea of millions
of strangers, and my mom and dad, looking at it.

And I'm a pretty shy person, so not much of my life makes it onto the web.

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paulhart
Privacy is a competitive advantage if implemented well.

