
What are you banned from? Why? - dredmorbius
https://www.quora.com/What-are-you-banned-from-Why/answers/65209949?srid=uw7w&amp;share=1
======
lliiffee
To be a little optimistic, it does seem to me that the ESTA system (where an
electronic check is done for visitors looking to use the visa waiver program
before they travel) has greatly reduced these types of situations. However,
ESTA is only used for visitors arriving by air/sea and not for people driving
or walking over the border.

In any case, I myself (an american citizen) have been treated with extreme
disrespect and a total lack of professionalism when crossing the border at
this same checkpoint by car from the Canadian side to the American side. The
particularly ridiculous part of this was that after I waited an hour for them
to tear everything apart in my car looking for contraband -- at which point
it's been _verified_ that I was doing nothing wrong -- they continued to be
completely antagonistic.

Edit: I filed a complaint about this, which did lead to a supervisor calling
me back and talking to me on the phone for probably 30 minutes. The supervisor
was reasonably pleasant, but unapologetic. (Is it reasonable that someone be
forced out of their car in the middle of winter and not allowed to get their
coat?) He claimed that he put a "warning" on the officer's record, though this
didn't seem credible. He again and again seemed to imply that I might have
been smuggling, after which I had to remind him that my car was extensively
searched and cleared.

~~~
DanBC
> The particularly ridiculous part of this was that after I waited an hour for
> them to tear everything apart in my car looking for contraband -- at which
> point it's been verified that I was doing nothing wrong -- they continued to
> be completely antagonistic.

> He again and again seemed to imply that I might have been smuggling, after
> which I had to remind him that my car was extensively searched and cleared.

No no, you're definitely guilty. But if they can't find the contraband you're
one of the smart drug smugglers, and thus even worse than the dumb smugglers
they catch everyday.

------
gluczywo
This story has the happy ending.

To understand what may happen to the US visitor read this book:
[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/30524537-the-russians-
ar...](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/30524537-the-russians-are-coming)

I can confirm it's not fiction as it was written by father of my friend.

TL;DR from goodreads:

 _During a short business trip to California, Irishman Denis Sugrue was
arrested and accused of spying for Russia. But this is no Cold War thriller -
this is 2005 in Bush 's America.

Facing ten years in federal prison, Sugrue must negotiate the corrupt
corridors of American justice and attempt to convince FBI agents that the fact
of his innocence outweighs the embarrassment of a failed prosecution._

------
csomar
Custom and Border agents are usually mean. Maybe the only exceptions I saw
were Hong Kong and Japan. But maybe I was just lucky there to meet a happy
dude.

The agent did not over step his powers. In fact, the agent did the _correct_
thing. No job. No entry. This is typical for most visa requirements. The
officer will simply not risk it.

As an unlucky citizen of the world; At the different visa processes I have
been (or friends) through, it is about checking the boxes. You got a list of
stuff to have/have not. Check? Entry. Miss one? No entry. It seemed to me that
your language, face, or accent don't play much.

~~~
mcny
> In fact, the agent did the correct thing. No job. No entry. This is typical
> for most visa requirements. The officer will simply not risk it.

No, the agent said the reason was he lied. I imagine the magic word is
consultant? We can do better. I remember Linus' recent rant about security
people in the kernel. No, security is not paramount. In fact, security is
useless without usability. This applies in the real world as well.

~~~
csomar
The agent thought the visitor lied because he doesn't understand the freelance
culture. Also, having no "roots" to your home country is a red flag.

------
sidcool
Can't verify the truthiness of the story, but the US has become one hell of a
paranoid state.

~~~
exelius
Hungary might as well be Zimbabwe in the mind of most Americans (especially
the type to be working as border guards at the US-Canada border). They don't
really grok that modern civilization exists outside the US, England, Germany
and France. I wish I was joking.

~~~
thieving_magpie
That might be the most ridiculous statement I've read on HN. To the point that
I can't even figure out what you're suggesting. Are you saying Americans
aren't aware Hungary is a modern civilization? I'd say that was pretty off
base.

~~~
ionised
He's suggesting that most Americans don't own a passport, or have ever
travelled outside the US, and have a tenuous grasp of world
geography/geopolitics.

I'd find it hard to argue.

~~~
thieving_magpie
Yes it can be very hard for non-affluent Americans to travel if they're not
near a border. Like anywhere else.

Americans knowledge of geography could certainly be improved. I don't think it
means anything negative about the people though.

~~~
JBlue42
How is it not negative to be aware of the world around you, especially when
you're (for now) the most powerful country in it and can vote for people that
enact policies that have severe repercussions on many people?

Celebrating ignorance is one reason we have the current administration and
Congress.

~~~
thieving_magpie
You're putting a lot of responsibility on some regular people. Do you go
around to Inuits quizzing them on Southeast Asia too?

Ordinary citizens do not vote on issues affecting an individual country. I'm
sorry, you're just going to have to accept the fact that not all Americans are
well educated.

~~~
JBlue42
>You're putting a lot of responsibility on some regular people.

Putting nuclear weapons at the finger tips of someone is a big responsibility.

>Ordinary citizens do not vote on issues affecting an individual country.

They vote on representatives that tend to have a policies that might. See for
example those running on platforms on building border walls, kicking out
immigrants, banning people from other nations from entering them, pulling out
of climate change agreements, etc.

>I'm sorry, you're just going to have to accept the fact that not all
Americans are well educated.

I accept that's the fact now. I don't accept that that should be a fact for
the country's future.

~~~
thieving_magpie
You'll have to explain to me how a guy in Oklahoma having a passport and
knowing the capitol of Hungary is relevant to nuclear policy and the threat of
nuclear war. Your argument is all over the place. We're not all rich here in
America, many of us weren't given great educations and have the money to
travel. It isn't like Europe where another country may be within a couple of
hours drive or train ride.

I also accept that we should do better in Geography. That'd be swell.

------
realusername
I don't know why anyone would bother to go to try to visit the US with the
paranoid state that happens there right now (edit: and especially by road),
there's countless people refused for random reasons, some arrested, taken
possessions... I would personally never go there fearing that I'm on some kind
of random list and arrested for no reason. There are plenty of other nice
countries to visit with sane border control.

~~~
peterwwillis
The US is a very large place with lots of unique and beautiful things to see.
You can travel around the country via land without restriction, so the biggest
problem is just getting in and out.

If you are white and a foreign national, the worst thing they will do is kick
you out. They tend to jail their own citizens for much longer for no reason.

However, if you're a Muslim, come from a Muslim country, or are just dark-
skinned, try not to be called a terrorist sympathizer. They will probably not
provide you basic human rights and will ignore any embassy's attempts to get
you back. If you're in the Southwest, try not to be called a Mexican, they may
deport you there with no cause.

~~~
realusername
> If you are white and a foreign national, the worst thing they will do is
> kick you out

I've attended to computer security conferences in the past, that would not be
the first time some security guy is arrested for no reason at the US border.

~~~
peterwwillis
Being arrested is not a big deal. If you are arrested entering the country,
unless there is some specific crime they think you have committed or were
thinking of committing, they will just deport you. (Though, IANAL)

I'm not saying YAY ARREST WOO!, I'm saying at worst it's a waste of time and
maybe money to get on a flight.

~~~
Retric
The question is cost vs benefit.

I am a US citizen and I expect to cross the border exactly once _if_ I leave.
We are the evil empire and sure that has benefits, but no place else has used
large scale Nuclear, Biological, _and_ Chemical weapons which is probably why
we assume others will.

We overthrow democracy's, assassinate leaders, torture, fund terrorists, and
ignore the rule of law, but trust us we are the good guys just like those
lovable Romans.

~~~
dragonwriter
> no place else has used Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical weapons

Well, no other nation has used nuclear weapons in war, but several have used
chemical and biological weapons.

~~~
Retric
The list of countries that have used both biological and chemical weapons at
scale is surprisingly short.

PS: Russia has probably used a small scale nuclear weapon for assassination.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvine...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvinenko)

~~~
dragonwriter
Radiological weapons like Russia has used for assassination are different from
nuclear weapons.

~~~
Retric
That's somewhat semantics. The Effects of Nuclear Weapons (1964) for example
lists types of Radiological weapons.

------
singularity2001
Funnily I was banned on quora some years back. I can't remember exactly why, I
think I refused to give my real name. Definitely no hate speech. Never looked
back.

------
prepend
“I immediately noticed how itchy the Americans are. They thoroughly
scrutinized and tapped down every pedestrian. Before me there was a group of
three Canadian teenagers. It was pretty obvious that they are not al-
Quaeda...”

This seems pretty simplistic. First, not sure if dude is being racist; second,
al-Qaida will want to not look obvious. Profiling visitors isn’t a good
approach for security.

~~~
SilverSlash
edited

~~~
nadam
"Maybe in east europe they profile you based on how 'obviously dangerous you
look',"

I am from Hungary too, and FYI: we are not a dumb group of people who all have
the same opinion on everything, and we somehow all 'profile people based on
how they look'.

I don't like that sentence of the article, and I don't like how you generalize
too.

"but I'm actually glad American border security doesn't discriminate."

Agree on this.

"Secondly, a lot of east europeans again think they are somehow as respected
as west europeans"

This sentence is so condescending again. I don't care how respected I am based
on my nationality. People I respect don't give a fuck about my nationality,
and that is good.

~~~
SilverSlash
Okay maybe my tone was condescending. Apologies, and removed.

~~~
nadam
Ok, no problem.

------
thieving_magpie
I lived on the US / Canadian border for 5 years and traveled to Canada. I can
tell you with all honesty that border guards on both sides were very hostile
toward me on a very frequent occurrence. When I've traveled through South
America and Europe it was very much the same. Hell, it still shocks me that
there were soldiers on my train in France with machine guns roaming the
aisles.

~~~
chrisseaton
I'm not sure I believe you that anyone would carry a machine gun on a train -
the long barrels would make it impossible to even turn around on a train.

~~~
jeroen
[https://cdn3.img.sputniknews.com/images/103710/55/1037105579...](https://cdn3.img.sputniknews.com/images/103710/55/1037105579.jpg)

That is Charles de Gaulle Airport, but I have seen the same type of soldier at
train stations in France. Regardless of what it's called, that is the type of
weapon they have.

~~~
bragh
Yeah, that is not a machinegun. Looks (and should be, because France) like
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS),
but I can't find the proper variant.

And I think that when we demand respect towards proper terminology from people
in other fields, we should have the courtesy to do the same. It is similar to
calling a monitor a PC or a computer case a hard drive. And being afraid of
weapons does not matter here, quite many people are afraid of computers also.

------
emmanuel_1234
Oh I have a good one. I'm banned from the Apple Store developer program before
I even published an app there.

I created an account to publish my (modest) app to the App Store. I overlooked
the security question because this is a really stupid way of securing an
account. I paid the super hefty annual fee to get in.

Later down the line, I had to authenticate myself for some reasons I forgot.
As a 2FA thing, they asked me for my security questions, which of course I
didn't have (the communication with the friendly Apple guy on the phone was
interesting "Try `security questions are stupid` as an answer?").

In the meantime, they told me they required some additional documents to
confirm my subscription. I politely asked them to cancel that, I'll create a
new account since there was apparently no way I could recover the original
one. The problem escalated until someone from the US called me to deal with
the problem (I was located in Asia at the time).

The not-so-friendly person on the phone refused to help me recover the
account, as well as refused to cancel my current subscription (the payment had
already been approved and the money withdrawn from my credit card payment,
they didn't want to issue a refund. "We can't do that", she said).

I then argued that well, I will not provide whichever document they asked, and
they'll have no choice but to 1. cancel my subscription and 2. pay me back.
The unfriendly person told me that I'll get a refund in a month, and that I
was subsequently banned from the App store and the developer program. She then
proceeded to hang up on me. I won, and take pride of being banned from such a
toxic place.

------
dijit
Funny, I am banned from Canada. I told them I had a criminal record in the eTA
form. (mistake, never do this, they can't check)

I was arrested when I was a 10 year old for being a little shit and stealing
candy from a pharmacy. They asked for all court records which of course I
cannot supply and a certificate from the british police stating that there are
no warrants out for me and such.

Such a certificate is only sent if you can prove an address in the UK with two
utility bills, I haven't lived in the UK for 3 years. -- I managed to get this
but now they want my entire police history, which can only be obtained by a
freedom of information request and will return nothing since my record is
sealed.

Effectively, I'm banned from Canada.

The kicker? I've been to Canada a bunch of times because my company has
studios all over the place there.. but now I can't go due to this eTA thing.

~~~
JBlue42
Slightly off-topic: Arrested at 10? Jesus, I thought the US was harsh. I don't
know how you grew up or if your folks were around but even a tough talking to
by the pharmacist / cop would seem more the order of the day.

------
scoot
This seems like pretty much standard procedure going back at least 30 years.
No family ties (wife, kids)? No property? No verifiable job to return to? No
Entry. No discrimination there.

Bit of an arse for suggesting he was lieing about being a freelance web dev
though.

------
bhaak
It was never "the land of free getting into it". Crossing the Atlantic ocean
was always somewhat difficult task.

But now, it's apparently harder to cross the border than then ocean. :-)

------
bagacrap
He should have called himself a consultant and not a freelancer.

~~~
bb88
And even better, owned his own consulting business.

------
true_religion
I know this border. The guards there questioned me too (and I'm a citizen) for
30+ minutes. They're either bored or overly suspicious.

------
roymoore
Sigh, I'm banned from the local mall. I won't get into why.

------
Cozumel
I seem to be shadow banned from here and I have no idea why!

~~~
dang
You're banned because there's evidence that you broke the HN guidelines
egregiously using another account. Obviously we crack down on that hard.

If that's an error, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com, as is anyone
with questions about their account.

Banned users' good comments are often unkilled by fellow community members
using HN's 'vouch' feature.

------
dominotw
why kind of US visa lets you freelance in America? I think all work visas need
you to have an employer.

Perhaps some sort of tourist visa?

~~~
TheCoelacanth
He clearly states that he was only trying to enter the US for an hour or so to
view the US side of Niagra Falls, not to work, so yes, he probably was going
for a tourist visa.

~~~
dominotw
missed that. Thanks.

------
monochromatic
/r/thathappened material.

~~~
baby
You've obviously never tried crossing the border

