
Wall Street analysts were blown away by Model 3's next-gen, military-grade tech - evo_9
https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/tesla-model-3-has-next-gen-military-grade-tech-ubs-says-but-will-never-turn-profit-2018-8-1027468439
======
syntaxing
I wish there was more details and pictures to see. But the fact they keep on
using "military grade tech" makes me lose most of my faith in the merit of the
article. Military grade actually means something. Just because it is advanced
does not make it military grade. There are many stringent requirements and
standards especially in testing when it's used in the Military which is why
everything seems like it cost so much. Just look at MIL-SPEC hardware like
screws. Easily 2-3x the cost of regular bolts but I can exactly pinpoint the
metal composition and expected lifetime for it.

~~~
maxxxxx
When I was at (German) military "military grade" seemed to mean 5 times as
expensive and frequently not working :)

------
jdietrich
Munro & Associates, one of the most respected teardown and costing
consultancies in the automotive industry, is of the opinion that the Model 3
is "solidly profitable". They have previously been harshly critical of Tesla
and remain unimpressed with the fit-and-finish of the Model 3, particularly
the large and inconsistent panel gaps.

[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-16/tesla-
mod...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-16/tesla-
model-3-critic-flips-view-sees-sedan-being-profitable)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpCrkO1x-Qo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpCrkO1x-Qo)

------
davidgould
I dunno about military-grade, but the Model 3 is definitely special.

I found this video series [0] about disassembling and analyzing a Model 3 very
interesting and informative. If you have worked on cars much, particularly if
you have ever changed a clutch or removed an engine, there will be some mind
blowing things here.

For example, removing the entire drive train requires unplugging a half dozen
connectors, two coolant hoses and undoing four bolts. Probably a half hour
job, given a lift, a transmission jack and a few hand basic hand tools. [1]

Take a look at the inverter. [2] It's about twice the size of the one on my
electric bike, but it's good for 300kw. The 100kw inverter in my Chevy Spark
EV is huge by comparison. It's the lower module in the big stack of boxes [3].
Above it is the 3.3kw charger.

I already have an electric car, and the Chevy Bolt would suit my needs better
(small, hatchback) than the Model 3, but I'm tempted by the artistry of it.

[0]
[https://www.youtube.com/user/Ingineerix/videos](https://www.youtube.com/user/Ingineerix/videos)
[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4eQ7nN_Lwo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4eQ7nN_Lwo)
[2]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6dV2re3rtM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6dV2re3rtM)
[3] [https://www.automobilesreview.com/gallery/2015-chevrolet-
spa...](https://www.automobilesreview.com/gallery/2015-chevrolet-spark-
ev/2015-chevrolet-spark-ev-24.jpg)

~~~
joshlittle
Love my Chevy Bolt EV. I like that Chevrolet has adopted a lot of standards -
J1772A/CCS Combo Charging, android auto and carplay in the infotainment
system. Surround vision and rear view camera are amazing.

Model 3 is ok, but there are few things to consider about that Tesla.

\- The lack of the free Tesla supercharging perk for m3. Without spending any
additional money, that car is locked into only having support for Tesla's
proprietary standard "out of box." There is no other hardware included with
the car which make it compatible with other technologies. (CCS/Chademo)

\- And that proprietary built in charge port requires a $500 Chademo adapter
if you want to use a different network for fast charging. Even that standard
is being replaced by SAE/CCS - No support at all by Tesla, but is the standard
used by Volkswagens upcoming Electrify America EVSE Network.

\- Are you a do it yourselfer? You won't be buying Tesla parts - they don't
make them available to customers. Whatever their service charges - that's what
you pay. I find the right to repair my own equipment is a must for something
I'm spending over $30,000 on.

I don't wanna have to teach a lesson to anyone on how to open my car doors.
Emergency exit handle is in a bad spot... Yep. Right where you expect it to be
- In the face of a normal handle on any car! If someone in your car uses the
emergency exit handle which is right on the door, the infotainment system
present a warning message telling you not to do that again as the window trim
can be damaged. Humans are going to always look for the handle on a car
door...

Only one camera is actually useful - rear backup camera. But there are a lot
more cameras for the autopilot feature. What's the point of having all these
cameras if you can't do anything with them?

\- Even $35,000 is a lot to spend on a vehicle that was assembled inside of a
circus tent in Fremont.

~~~
davidgould
CCS/Combo chargers are not free either, so how is that an advantage?
Superchargers are also usefully placed for trips and are not located in lots
that are blocked off at night like the last CCS/Combo I tried to use. They are
also here today unlike VW's upcoming network.

I'm already signed up for four or five charging networks because of the
fragmentation of the CCS market. I don't see any advantage here either.

I'm probably not getting either car, but I did try to plan a trip from
Oakland, CA to Portland OR which I do sometimes. It is easy in a Model 3 LR
with minimal delay for charging. The Bolt struggles to make it at all and
needs a couple extra stops to hit the mountains with enough charge to get
over. I'd probably do it, but it would be an adventure.

I used to be a do all my own mechanical work, but the nice thing about
electric cars is you really don't need to do much of this. I'm expecting
either car to run for years without any of the sort of service I would tackle.

Your complaint is that the car comes with more cameras that the backup camera?
You are aware that it does collision avoidance with the front and side
cameras, right?

> circus tent in Fremont

This is just bigotry, what have you got against Fremont?

~~~
marklyon
EVgo CCS for my used BMW was free for the first year and is $99/year after.
Not unreasonable.

I've signed up for several other networks, but I prioritize using EVgo and
chargepoint since I get "free" sessions on both.

------
technofiend
If Tesla were actually so far ahead that his tech represented an advantage
when applied in a military context, he'd no longer be able to export it much
less share the tech by building in China.

I really don't see that happening based on the article here.

------
PAClearner
while there are good parts to this analysis -

military grade tech <\---> wildly over-budget and delayed

~~~
kuro68k
It's missed the boat for being the first long range affordable EV. Hyundai got
there first with the Kona, which has the range of the more expensive Model 3
Long Range but at the price of the cheaper Short Range one.

Don't get me wrong, the M3 is okay as a stripped down sporty hatchback, but
the $35k model is looking a bit basic and overpriced already.

~~~
Tade0
That may not be necessarily the case. Hyundai is having issues with producing
an appropriate amount of battery packs[0] and it's not planning on delivering
more than 2500 units to Norway in 2018. I don't think they're planning to sell
more than 25k overall this year.

Sure the Model 3 is considerably less affordable, but it has scale[2].

[0] [https://electrek.co/2018/05/31/hyundai-kona-ev-gets-
norwegia...](https://electrek.co/2018/05/31/hyundai-kona-ev-gets-norwegian-
price-specs-as-company-plans-to-make-own-batteries/)

[1] [https://electrek.co/2018/05/08/hyundai-ioniq-electric-
batter...](https://electrek.co/2018/05/08/hyundai-ioniq-electric-battery-
shortage-limiting-production/)

[2] [https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tesla-
tracker/](https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tesla-tracker/)

------
gaius
The F35 is “military grade” too. It’s massively over budget, doesn’t work and
never will. Oh and rival states already stole all the blueprints.

~~~
adventured
According to the Norwegian pilots currently flying the F35, it defeats all
other planes it has gone up against due to its tech and stealth superiority.
Only the F22 - which was recently in Norway for exercises - provided it a good
challenge.

The Israelis are actively using the F35 in missions. Their air force is not
known for spending large sums of money on planes that don't work.

Nobody else has fielded a 5th gen plane in meaningful numbers, including
Russia and China. There's a reason for that.

~~~
alphabettsy
Wondering if that reason is not being necessary or beneficial?

At this point we’ve built several generations of advanced jets that’ve never
seen meaningful combat or use starting with, from what I remember, the F-117.

~~~
perl4ever
Well, there was one F-117 that was shot down, and conversely, since it was
solely an attack aircraft, _avoiding_ combat was more what it was _supposed_
to do, no?

~~~
gaius
Yes, stealth defeated by "obsolete" equipment. F35s don't stand a chance
against modern Russian S-400s.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_F-117A_shootdown](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_F-117A_shootdown)

