
On almost every indicator, Germany’s south is doing better than its north - JumpCrisscross
https://www.economist.com/blogs/kaffeeklatsch/2017/08/explaining-munich-miracle
======
rbehrends
This is really horribly misleading.

It's primarily because Bavaria, Baden-Württemberg, and Hesse are the richest
non-city states (in terms of per-capita GDP). But if you include city states,
then Hamburg and Bremen are both richer than those, while Saxony, Thuringia,
Rhineland-Palatinate and the Saarland are among the poorer German states [1].
(Comparatively speaking; obviously, they're still pretty darn well off
compared to most of the world.)

Also, the West-East divide is far bigger than the North-South divide still.
There's not a single state in the former East Germany with higher per-capita
GDP than any of the former West German ones.

The line that the article draws is overall pretty arbitrary and mixes up rich
and poor states on both sides of the divide. The EU has regional breakdowns at
the NUTS-2 [2] and NUTS-3 level that provide a more nuanced picture.

[1]
[http://imactivate.com/regionexplorer/indexedeu/?options=true...](http://imactivate.com/regionexplorer/indexedeu/?options=true&columns=0,43,48,56,58,60,62,64,68,70,75,81,85,90,94,92,86)

[2] [http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-
explained/index.php/...](http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-
explained/index.php/GDP_at_regional_level)

~~~
rothbardrand
Any division of a country is going to be arbitrary to some extent, but
east/west was due to the Berlin Wall-- an artificial border-- while north
south is due to culture, a difference more of choice than edict.

~~~
jacquesm
> but east/west was due to the Berlin Wall--

No, East-West was because of the border running North-South through Germany
intersecting with the main motorway from Hannover to Berlin at Helmstedt.

The Berlin Wall was an interior division separating two parts of Berlin, 'West
Berlin' and 'East Berlin', but to get to West Berlin by road you had to cross
through a large chunk of East Germany first, and then you'd enter West-Berlin
through yet another border crossing. The road from Helmstedt to West-Berlin
was known as the 'corridor'.

West Berlin was best thought of as an island within East Germany with the
Berlin wall circling West Berlin.

------
rsp1984
_The characteristic divide in dialects of German is the “Uerdingen” isogloss
separating low forms of the language (where the pronoun “I” is pronounced
“ik”) from central and high ones (where it is pronounced “ich”)._

No. Only Berlin / Brandenburg people say "Ik". Southern German dialects say
"I" (pronounced as "ee" would be in English).

~~~
sarabande
The article is only incorrect by omission. I am not sure, but you may
confusing the term "low form," that is, Low German / Plattdeutsch, with being
geographically southern. It is geographically northern -- the "low" refers to
elevation, not latitude.

Precisely people in Berlin/Brandenburg say "ik" _because it is Low German,
which is spoken in the North of Germany, which is what the Uerdinge isogloss
describes_.

The article did fail to mention the other big lines, the Benrather and the
Speyer line (which is what you are referring to with Oberdeutsch dialect
differentiating between "ich" and "i").

There are a lot of these lines drawn by linguists.

~~~
1maginary
I agree both you and the parent, I don't think you're disagreeing, you're just
talking about different things. You're talking about the historical
distinction, the parent is talking about how things are nowadays.[0]

I found the article a bit disingenuous since you need to know what the
Uerdingen line is and its context to understand what they're saying, since the
divide isn't quite what it used to be.

[0]: [http://www.atlas-alltagssprache.de/runde-2/f25c/](http://www.atlas-
alltagssprache.de/runde-2/f25c/)

------
s3nnyy
Yeah the South is better than the North for many reasons. I lived in Munich
for 22 years but still Octoberfest beer prices doubled since 2002
(introduction of the Euro) ([http://www.bpb.de/nachschlagen/zahlen-und-
fakten/soziale-sit...](http://www.bpb.de/nachschlagen/zahlen-und-
fakten/soziale-situation-in-deutschland/61766/lohnentwicklung)), while wages
only rose 20% ([http://www.bpb.de/nachschlagen/zahlen-und-fakten/soziale-
sit...](http://www.bpb.de/nachschlagen/zahlen-und-fakten/soziale-situation-in-
deutschland/61766/lohnentwicklung)). That is why I moved 350km South-West from
Munich, Germany (most livable city in Germany) to Zurich, Switzerland (most
livable city in the world)

~~~
hk__2
Isn’t Zurich horribly expensive, like the rest of Switzerland? I went to
Geneva once and the prices of things struck me compared to what we have in
Paris, France (which is already a pretty expensive city).

~~~
ephimetheus
I live in Geneva, and it's horribly expensive. The living costs as well as
rents are insanely high. The wages are higher as well though. The worst thing
is if you're paid in Euros and have to convert them to Swiss francs for
spending

~~~
s3nnyy
Why would you get paid in euros? No tech company I know would do that.

------
gumby
I find the more interesting distinction is between the fates of Bavaria and
Niedersachsen (Lower Saxony, formed by the British by amalgamating smaller
states after the war). Both are large, agrarian states, with Niedersachsen
somewhat wealthier in the 1950s. However Bavaria diversified its economy
better and became a powerhouse, while Niedersachsen was, IIRC, the poorest of
the West German Länder at the time of unification, and until that time
received the most federal assistance.

------
aaron-lebo
From today:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/6v3fma/three_germa...](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/6v3fma/three_germanies_regional_gdp_per_capita_op/)

also recent:

[https://www.vox.com/policy-and-
politics/2017/8/18/16162234/r...](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-
politics/2017/8/18/16162234/regional-inequality-cause)

 _Today, Massachusetts’s GDP per capita is about double what you find in
Mississippi — roughly equivalent to the gap between Switzerland and Slovakia —
and it’s not getting any narrower._

~~~
lampenrad
It doesn't stop at the German border, though. And if you look at this map, the
distinction between S and N is much less clear:
[https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Gross_domestic_pro...](https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Gross_domestic_product_\(GDP\)_per_inhabitant,_in_purchasing_power_standard_\(PPS\),_by_NUTS_2_regions,_2009_\(%25_of_the_EU-27_average,_EU-27%3D100\).png)

Southern Germany, Western Austria, Northern Italy, Switzerland and parts of
France: There's a big wealth cluster in the larger region around the Alps.
Why? I don't know, but as a South German myself, I'm not too convinced by the
claims of the article.

~~~
treigerm
I remember learning about the Blue Banana
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Banana](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Banana))
in high school. You can see it pretty clearly on your map.

------
posterboy
Is this a historic trend or a consequence of the war?

~~~
ringaroundthetx
like between Prussia and Bavaria?

~~~
jackcosgrove
I took it to mean the Second World War, and the different occupation zones.

~~~
ringaroundthetx
It was a thinly veiled RTFA, since it addresses that

~~~
posterboy
I never do RTFA, tbfh

