
SQL Operations Studio - rahulshiv
https://github.com/Microsoft/sqlopsstudio
======
scrollaway
Oh please please please postgres support! The only free+open source option for
Linux is Sqlectron ([https://github.com/sqlectron/sqlectron-
gui](https://github.com/sqlectron/sqlectron-gui)) which has massive
performance issues.

I badly want an alternative to DataGrip. It's great, but it's not free and its
open source license criteria are frankly ridiculous
[[https://www.jetbrains.com/buy/opensource/?product=datagrip](https://www.jetbrains.com/buy/opensource/?product=datagrip)]:

>> Your OS project may not offer paid sponsorship; receive funding from
commercial companies or organizations (NGO, education, research, or
governmental). You do not provide any paid support, consulting or training
services for your OS project, and you do not distribute paid versions of your
OS software. Contributors who are paid to work on the project are not
eligible.

~~~
mnx
Well, basically they only want to give it away for free, if you actually
cannot pay for it. That seems reasonable. But I agree, an OS alternative would
be great, and this seems like it could be it.

~~~
scrollaway
Yeah, I understand the logic behind the licensing.

However, under the guise of promoting open source, what this actually does is
it promotes _giving your work away for free_ and discourages making money with
open source products.

As a huge proponent of open source myself, I have no problem with projects
that are open source and make money; anything that isn't "hobbyist level"
should be able to make money, and if you want to make money your mindset
shouldn't fall back on going closed source.

Huge shout out to Sentry in that matter: They are open source, and if you're
open source they service you for free. [https://sentry.io/for/open-
source/](https://sentry.io/for/open-source/) \-- Comparatively, DataGrip is
closed source, and they only give you a free license if you can't make money.
Very different mindset...

~~~
mnx
I get your point, but also... You are complaining that they are not willing to
give _their_ work away, unless you are willing to give _your_ work away.

~~~
scrollaway
But it's not symmetrical like that: DataGrip isn't open source.

It's not so much a complaint (they're within their rights), I just find it
uneasy to ask people to forego revenue. I feel it sends the wrong message and
promotes the wrong mindset.

------
sixdimensional
I guess it's a good thing I didn't do the project I was thinking about. I
observed the fact that SQL Server had no management tool that was cross-
platform, and thought perhaps I would build such a thing. Nice work Microsoft!

On a side-note, I'd love to see an even more minimalist stripped-down, read-
mostly query/tabular result only (with pivot tables) tool, which had some
local columnar storage caching/query engine, and simple import/export to
common file formats as well. A simple "SQL notebook" that was cross platform,
if you will, but worked more like a traditional query tool. And not embedded
in MS Excel, like PowerQuery or PowerPivot (although it's powerful!).

Something lighter weight than BI tools such as Power BI, Tableau, Qlik, etc.,
definitely lighter weight than tools such as SSMS, DBeaver, SQuirrel, etc. -
not for administrative use. I've seen a few applications that are coming close
listed on HN lately, but would be nice to have something as pretty as this and
which is open source.

Perhaps a fork with the admin features stripped out, some additional plumbing
added, and read-only connections, I'm not sure.

Will have to think about it. Main use case is data scientists / data analysts
/ SQL power users.

~~~
lowkeyokay
As for cross-platform, VS Code has a plugin for SQL Server. It doesn't provide
all the graphical management tools that SSMS does but all the stored
procedures are available, naturally.

If you're on a Mac, i suggest [1] Hankinsoft's SQL Studio. I've been using it
daily for a couple of years. It's very light weight and supports most db's. It
has some neat functions too; like marking rows and columns, right click and
get insert statements. It's not free, but for me, it has been well worth the
price.

If you want something for quick data analysis, I would suggest looking into
queryStorm [2]. It was on HN's front page [3] last week, but for it's C#
capabilities. It started as as SQL query tool for excel. I have yet to try it
but it seems very useful and fast. Although I don't think it has any column
store caching.

[1] [http://www.hankinsoft.com](http://www.hankinsoft.com)

[2] [https://querystorm.com](https://querystorm.com)

[3]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15670030](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15670030)

~~~
sixdimensional
QueryStorm looks cool and appears to use SQLite for local joins on the
desktop, which gets you pretty far (column store would probably get you
further). My only gripe here is being tied to Excel and potentially what looks
like limited data source support.

------
userbinator
In case you're wondering, or just want to confirm the reason for the presence
of a "privacy statement" \--- yes, it does phone home:

[https://github.com/Microsoft/sqlopsstudio/tree/master/src/vs...](https://github.com/Microsoft/sqlopsstudio/tree/master/src/vs/platform/telemetry)

At least the source is available, so it should be relatively easy to remove,
but as the saying goes, "look before you leap"...

~~~
icc97
Looks like it's opt-in [0]

[0]:
[https://github.com/Microsoft/sqlopsstudio/blob/6e05dd7fa13d2...](https://github.com/Microsoft/sqlopsstudio/blob/6e05dd7fa13d2e5b7260314609e69093cc2142f2/src/vs/platform/telemetry/common/telemetryService.ts#L146)

~~~
ConfucianNardin
That looks like opt-out (it's named "telemetry.enableTelemetry" and has
"'default': true").

------
jacquesc
No Postgres support yet. Looks like a great app though.
[https://github.com/Microsoft/sqlopsstudio/issues/56](https://github.com/Microsoft/sqlopsstudio/issues/56)

~~~
userbinator
You're kidding, right?

This is a Microsoft product. Microsoft have their own database. What value is
it to them to help people continue using competitor's products?

Besides, it's not like Postgres doesn't have plenty of GUI tools already:

[https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Community_Guide_to_PostgreS...](https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Community_Guide_to_PostgreSQL_GUI_Tools)

~~~
hobs
I was actually in the room listening as the question came up to the team that
makes this tool, its not off the table at all.

The value to them is Azure, which hosts open source databases, why not give
your customers the decent tooling at the same time?

You'll even find things in the tool that reference non-Microsoft language, eg
the button generally labeled "Estimated Execution Plan" in SQL Server
Management Studio is labeled "Explain".

The methodology behind the plugin absolutely allows abstracting out the MSSQL
specific components, its just an open source fork of VS Code.

~~~
karma_fountain
I implore you to do this. Every time pgadmin dies, I also die a little inside.

------
jflowers45
I wonder what SSMS can do that this can't? SSMS is not cross platform as far
as I know, whereas this is. Would be nice if they elaborated on the
differences and pros/cons.

~~~
ElatedOwl
On my first cursory glance: no table designer, no execute stored procedure GUI

There's a lot of little things I wish SSMS had/did (like inline text search
for sproc/table) and was hoping this would have it. The execution plan screen
(explain in this IDE) is a lot cleaner, though.

~~~
timlin
What do you mean "inline text search for sproc"?

I use a combination of SQL Hunting Dog [http://sql-hunting-
dog.com/](http://sql-hunting-dog.com/) (quick search all object names) and a
SQL script from the (free) SSMSBoost plugin that looks at most object
definitions but not table columns unfortunately. I've used Red Gate's SQL
Search in the past but it's always been slow and buggy over the VPN.

If you're looking for a better execution plan utility, check out SQL Sentry's
Plan Explorer. It's free.

~~~
ElatedOwl
In the object explorer just some text input that would filter accordingly.
Some of our databases have a TON of tables/sprocs and it would be a nice
convenience.

SQL Hunting Dog looks exactly like what I've been wanting, thanks for the
recommendation!

------
darklajid
Currently extracting the 16819 files in the archive.. ;-)

That said, the screenshots look decent and I've been looking for an
alternative to the SQL Server Management Studio a couple times already. So I
already applaud the effort.

~~~
sundvor
Same here - I'm glad I have a NVME drive, dread to think about the extract on
a SATA one. :D

Very exciting development, looking forward to trying it out.

~~~
chrisper
Why on earth would it be dreadful on a SATA SSD? Does it really matter if it
takes 15 seconds vs 18 seconds?

~~~
rym_
Don't get it either. Took at most a minute here on my non-SSD laptop.

~~~
sundvor
Maybe something else was going on with my laptop, but it took several minutes
for me.

Was using a few instances of Visual Studio 2017, but I don't think they were
going flat out.

------
GFischer
Would this be the "Visual Studio Code" to the SQL Server Management Studio?

No mention of CosmosDB (I want some kind of SSMS equivalent for CosmosDB).

~~~
yarovoy
They added some preview support for CosmosDB recently to Azure Storage
Explorer. [https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/features/storage-
explorer/](https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/features/storage-explorer/)

But I haven't used it with CosmosDB yet.

------
chungy
Unfortunate license, you can't redistribute it, verbatim or otherwise.

~~~
will_hughes
I just logged an issue suggesting a change of license:
[https://github.com/Microsoft/sqlopsstudio/issues/102](https://github.com/Microsoft/sqlopsstudio/issues/102)

~~~
BrentOzar
I had a discussion with MS about it, and they're going to update the Github
issue soon. Short story is that they're not going to consider changing the
license until general availability, but they're gathering feedback in the
meantime.

~~~
will_hughes
Thanks for the update.

------
genieyclo
This is a good time to ask: is there any good SQL IDE for Oracle better than
SQL Developer?

~~~
bitmapbrother
JetBrains DataGrip is pretty good. It's not free, though.

[https://www.jetbrains.com/datagrip/](https://www.jetbrains.com/datagrip/)

------
eat_veggies
how does this compare with datagrip?

[https://www.jetbrains.com/datagrip/](https://www.jetbrains.com/datagrip/)

~~~
giancarlostoro
This one's directed at Microsoft SQL offerings, including the ones in the
Azure cloud. Whereas DataGrip is for most SQL databases. Also this one's free,
and DataGrip isn't (almost a shame but it's worth it's salt). DataGrip
definitely is more featureful since it's been around a bit longer. Funnily
enough the one Microsoft made looks like it derives from Visual Studio Code,
much like MSSQL Management Studio derives from regular Visual Studio, and I
think that'll mean Microsoft might embed some features from this into Visual
Studio Code, but that's me just speculating, and it could take a while before
they do.

~~~
megaman22
It'd be nice if SQL Management Studio and Visual Studio from the same
generations were based upon the same platform, although I can understand why
that's difficult and why SQLMS lags behind. I did get a little sick of having
VS 2010 components kicking around for years after I'd moved on.

~~~
sjellis
I am wondering if the long-term solution is going to be that SQL Management
Studio goes away, in favor of SQL Operations Studio and possibly some other
graphical tools for more specialized things like data warehousing etc. The
more good next-generation cross-platform tooling that MS roll out, the more it
sort of grates to have to flip back into a Windows system for that one
specific thing.

------
halfnibble
Where was this last month when I was at a Microsoft Hackathon with my Macbook
Pro trying to browser MS SQL hosted on Azure?

------
johnhenry
An overview would be awesome: [https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sql/sql-
operations-studio/w...](https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sql/sql-operations-
studio/what-is)

------
nbevans
This looks like SQL Server Management Studio will be deprecated once this
project reaches a v1.0. About time too - as SSMS barely supports SQL Azure at
all; pretty much all the useful GUI screens are not available.

~~~
timlin
If that's true, it'll be years before 1.0. There are many admin screens that
this new tool will have to replicate.

------
arj
This is actually quite decent for a first version. I can see that it has git
integrated. What workflows do people use to combine git and sql?

------
anon335dtzbvc
Be aware of the non free license

------
johnnyb9
With minimal effort this may prove better than SSMS.

------
jensvdh
No Support for SQLite?

~~~
WesleyLivesay
With this being Public Preview 1 I hope they add more DB type support over the
coming months.

------
partycoder
DataGrip from Jetbrains is good for SQL stuff.

------
flukus
Finally, DBA's can experience the "wonders" of electron too.

When you accidentally select * and get 100,000 items back how does the non-
native table view hold up?

~~~
kevcunnane
It works well for large data sets. The UI is indeed virtualized (using
SlickGrid), and the backend streams query results to a temp file to avoid
memory usage growing too high. Note: As you might guess from the details, I
work on this tool. Please try it out and let us know if you run into any
issues!

~~~
dvlsg
I'm loving it so far. Thanks for your work!

