
Rolling Stone, Once a Counterculture Bible, Will Be Put Up for Sale - mudil
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/17/business/rolling-stone-magazine-sale.html
======
Mediterraneo10
I like to read about the 1960s counterculture in Europe and North America. It
was always funny to see _Rolling Stone_ in the list of "underground
newspapers" of the Sixties, because for my generation, it has always been a
completely ordinary and conventional magazine that you can buy anywhere.

Also amazing is that _Time Out_ , which will strike most people today as an
unremarkable and boring listing of events, was considered a key achievement of
the London counterculture when it first came out. Apparently any
countercultural vibe was gradually purged from it over the course of the
1970s.

~~~
anvandare
"You either die a counterculture or you live long enough to become the
culture."

The young/anti-establishment people of the 60's and 70's are the
old/establishment people of today.

~~~
coldtea
And, at the same time, there are no young/anti-establishment people of today
of any consequence.

Not in any such numbers as to constitute an actual counter-culture anyway...

~~~
JBReefer
I think it's shocking how normative the culture is today. Fringe media says
exactly the same things - pro-social justice, pro-a large social safety net,
deep concern about climate change - as the major media. The only actual
"counterculture" seems to be Breitbart et al, which is ... a change.

Paper Magazine, the New York Times, and Gothamist now mostly reflect the same
cultural ideals. It's fascinating. Was this what the 80s was like?

~~~
cvwright
Funny that you mention Breitbart. Their founder Andrew Breitbart claimed that
he helped start Huffington Post in an effort to show that mainstream news
sources (NY Times etc) actually share most of the views of groups toward the
far left, ie the former counterculture.

Was he successful? He certainly convinced most of the people on the right, but
they were already on his bandwagon anyway... As someone in the middle, it's
looking more and more like he had a point. (Even if the site that bears his
name has become.. well, whatever it is, now.)

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sortaThrowaway
Was on and off reader of RS. Their non/half apology for their University of
Virginia rape story really turn me off.

They didn't seem to understand (or care?) what they did wrong and thus didn't
really apologize.

~~~
cdolan
I also do not think the author or editor were removed from their positions

~~~
coldtea
Why should they? Should everybody that makes a mistake in their job be fired?

The magazine retracted the story and apologized. The author apologized as
well. The editor handed over their resignation (it was not accepted).

What do you want, to have them be some parriahs that never find journalistic
work again?

~~~
jessriedel
All mistakes are not the same, and there are ones that ought to end a career.
When the captain of a Navy ship has an accidental collision, his career is
over. A sufficiently bad news article can wreck the lives of multiple innocent
people, and kill public trust in the newspaper and the author. In this way, a
bad editor or writer can do more damage in one decision than they can make up
for in the entire rest their career.

I don't have an opinion on this case in particular, but there are cases where
no amount of apologizing is enough. Becoming a copy writer for the rest of
one's career does not strike me as a particularly cruel and unusual
punishment.

~~~
coldtea
> _When the captain of a Navy ship has an accidental collision, his career is
> over._

Is that always true? I'm not so sure. And even if it is true, perhaps it
should not be so. All kinds of professionals have accidents or errors and
continue to work.

There's this apocryphal story that makes some sense.

Tom Watson Jr., CEO of IBM between 1956 and 1971, was a key figure in the
information revolution. (...) A young executive had made some bad decisions
that cost the company several million dollars. He was summoned to Watson’s
office, fully expecting to be dismissed. As he entered the office, the young
executive said, “I suppose after that set of mistakes you will want to fire
me.” Watson was said to have replied, “Not at all, young man, we have just
spent a couple of million dollars educating you.”

~~~
barkingcat
Easy to find examples:

[http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-
stories/2017/08/23/remain...](http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-
stories/2017/08/23/remains-found-after-us-destroyer-collision.html)

Start at the top and start firing.

"Vice Admiral Joseph Aucoin, who headed America's Asia-based 7th Fleet, has
been relieved of his duties following the damage to the USS John S McCain."

[https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/17/world/asia/fitzgerald-
col...](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/17/world/asia/fitzgerald-collision-
investigation.html)

Next up is the commander of the ship and the senior officers.

Being relieved of duties doesn't mean firing though. Could be that they become
paper pushers. The next step would be court martial.

But yes, there are career ending mistakes. Especially when they cause the
death of 7 people and takes a 9000 ton, $1.5 billion ship out of commission.
The Arleigh Burke class also forms a good chunk of an aircraft carrier group's
defensive perimeter, so by taking out these ships, these mistakes (whether one
mistake or many mistake doesn't matter) puts approximately $30 Billion worth
of military assets (not to mention the 5000+ people) at risk.

How's that for a career ender?

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thisiscool
2 things caused me to decline a Rolling Stones subscription which I just
cannot get over: 1\. A Rape on Campus 2\. the Marathon bomber on the cover
looking like a rock star

~~~
isk517
I'm surprised that the Boston Marathon bomber cover was not brought up in the
article as well.

~~~
arrakeen
fwiw, in the print edition the bomber cover was included in the covers
displayed on the front page of the business section

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fallingfrog
Rolling Stone has become a sad graveyard of top 50 songs lists and photos from
the 60's. It's a joke for anyone under the age of 50.

~~~
Myrmornis
You might be unaware of some of the good journalism on non-music current
affairs that they have published, e.g. Matt Taibbi.

~~~
olivermarks
The only reason I ever go to RS online is to read Matt Taibbi, who has been a
valuable documenter of our era of too big to fail bank antics and the bizarre
US political circus.

The rest of it seems run of the mill corporate entertainment shilling and
promotion...

~~~
Myrmornis
Yep, what have the Romans ever done for us? :)

What about, going back a bit, but David Foster Wallace's piece on John
McCain's election campaign?

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janvdberg
Jann Wenner was on a recent How I Built This podcast [1]: which was very
interesting. He was very adamant there that his son was being prepped to take
over. So this is a bit surprising. [1]
[http://www.npr.org/podcasts/510313/how-i-built-
this](http://www.npr.org/podcasts/510313/how-i-built-this)

~~~
brookside
He struck me as prickly and on edge for portions of that interview.

While the question about lack of gender diversity in RS's writers seemed
aggressive compared to the normal _How I Built This_ "So a billion dollar
valuation. That's a lot of money. What does it feel like to be...rich?",
Wenner's response seemed out of touch and dismissive.

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thanatropism
In a different (but intersecting) market, _Outside_ magazine is very good.

~~~
mikestew
_Outside_ , the magazine that just published a puff piece on Lance Armstrong
that ended up on HN somehow? Yeah, that magazine has become about as vapid as
RS has.

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RickJWagner
Ironically reported in the Failing New York Times. :)

~~~
thisiscool
Seems to me the NY Times is doing OK, digital subscriptions are way up.

~~~
VeejayRampay
Most likely the parent was using the phrase in jest.

