
Hug vs. Handshake - gluejar
https://medium.com/women-and-work/1c4f35dec45b
======
RyanMcGreal
My favourite definition of "awkwardness" comes from Steven Pinker: it's the
uncomfortable feeling you get when you realize that your concept of your
relationship with someone else doesn't match their concept. The intensity of
awkwardness roughly corresponds to the magnitude of difference in relationship
concepts.

For example, I was at a dinner party recently and greeted a female friend with
a handshake. She said, "That was formal," and slight awkwardness ensued. When
we were leaving I made sure to give her a hug.

If, at the end of dinner, someone had pulled out their wallet and starting
putting money on the table to pay for their meal, the awkwardness would have
been much more intense.

~~~
aristus
There's also culture. Among my friends, I have to keep straight whether they
expect 0, 1, 2, or 3 kisses on the cheek.

~~~
migueldiab
You can always ask in advance, making it nonchalant :) "1 kiss, right?", that
at least will be a nice ice-breaker that will minimize awkwardness

~~~
gertertsgsdfa
Really? That's your minimal solution for awkwardness? Ice-breakers should be
fun or interesting conversation starters, they shouldn't be you calling
attention to how awkward you are. Just learn follow the other person's cues.
If you must do it, the excessive-honesty-in-order-to-elicit-sympathy tactic
can be saved as a back up plan for when you make mistakes.

------
benjamincburns
There's always my favorite: finding out if it's appropriate to hug someone you
want to hug without it being awkward.

My strategy: Approaching from a bit of a distance with arms down look happy
and kind of throw your arms out - half "this could turn into a hug" half "I'm
just excited to see you." If they reach out a hand, shake it. If they
reciprocate, go in for the hug. If they don't, stay safe with the handshake.
The point is to give them time and opportunity to react with body language
rather than speech, but not so much time that everyone's stuck thinking about
it and upping the awkward factor. If it does get awkward just change the
subject and move on. You'll both forget about it in a few minutes.

Either way, I'm with everyone else here in that I believe informal greetings
are for informal relationships.

~~~
Rickasaurus
Hilariously well thought out, I'm going to try this.

~~~
seanp2k2
100% Agree. This is 100% useful for awkward people like me though. I'm sure
I'm not alone.

~~~
benjamincburns
I used to be quite awkward and reserved. Then I realized that I spend most of
my life solving problems. This is just another problem. I can solve this.

The biggest thing - confidence. Just like your 80-year-old grandparent that's
scared to touch a computer because they might break it, I was scared in social
interactions because people might not like me. There's a lot of people out
there and most are a lot more awkward and tolerant of awkwardness than you
think. Just don't spill water on the keyboard or download a virus and you
probably won't break it. Once you internalize that, you'll get the confidence
to fiddle and experiment.

The other biggest thing - discomfort. Focus on avoiding the other person's
fears/discomfort and work hard to squash your own.

Also, Dale Carnegie's _How to Win Friends and Influence People_.

------
JonnieCache
I'm more concerned about the strength of handshakes. I have a bias against
anyone who actively squeezes my hand with anything beyond a simple, firm
grasp. It comes across as macho, like you've got something to prove, and
therefore untrustworthy.

I'd like to point out here that I'm admitting a bias rather than expressing an
opinion.

EDIT: at least now I'm approaching something resembling adulthood I don't have
the problem of trying to negotiate on the fly which of the various intricate
hiphop style handshakes we're executing. Those were the days...

~~~
melvinmt
Weird, I have the complete opposite: I have a slight feeling of distrust when
somebody gives me a weak hand.

~~~
CognitiveLens
I've always wondered what happens when two people meet who literally don't
flex any muscle in their hand while shaking... must be some kind of strange
hand mashing.

I grip with what I hope is a sincere level of firmness - as in, "I'm really
pleased to be shaking your hand, thank you" - and I'm flummoxed when it feels
as though the other person has simply dangled their appendage for me to
interact with.

~~~
jedberg
> and I'm flummoxed when it feels as though the other person has simply
> dangled their appendage for me to interact with.

This was a wonderful turn of phrase. It should be in some sales manual or
something.

~~~
mst
That or a list of unintentional double entendres.

------
mimiflynn
If any business is involved, then stick with handshakes.

I've been in a situation where my girlfriend's friends do neither: they do the
air cheek kiss thing. Its really confusing because I'm never sure if they are
coming in for a hug or an air cheek kiss. Its hard to try to 'take charge' and
initiate something otherwise because I start to feel like I'm about to be rude
by doing something different and get more awkward.

Its nice to know I'm not the only one with this kind of issue.

------
antoko
I pretty much only ever shake hands when first being introduced to someone, or
when concluding some kind of business arrangement.

I have no problem with hugging but I really don't care - I never instigate it
with males or females but have no problem returning a hug if one is incoming.

Who has the time to worry about stuff like this? I really don't get it,
chances are the people you are imagining taking offense aren't analyzing the
interaction at all - let alone as deeply as you are.

I'd strongly advise bosses not to hug their employees except in very rare
circumstances, those interactions are much likely to be analyzed by the
recipient and any observing coworkers

I'm a married male for the record.

~~~
davidkatz
It's not a genuine worry for me, just something I think about from time to
time, when I realize that an interaction (either a hand shake or a hug) was
slightly awkward for one of the parties.

Other people don't need to give something the same amount of attention that I
do for it to become a meaningful subject of thought for me. I also don't think
that people generally take offense when (say) I give them a handshake instead
of a hug, or the other way around. At worst, it creates some momentary
awkwardness. All that said, it's still interesting.

------
twrkit
_When I run into a male acquaintance, I know exactly how to greet him: shake
his hand. Doesn’t matter how long we’ve known each other. I even shake my
dad’s hand._

Maybe I'm too friendly or completely oblivious to how socially awkward and
creepy I am, but I hug many of my close male friends, even though I am a
'cisgendered heterosexual male.' In a way I am saddened that the author is not
on 'hugging terms' with is own father.

Perhaps he is overthinking the trivial niceties of social interactions? In my
mind, it's never been a Big Deal. Do what comes naturally, Anything is only as
awkward you make it.

After a few misguided attempts at executing the 'urban greeting,' I have since
made a conscious effort to demonstrate clear intent upon encountering an
acquaintance. In other words, I make sure my hand is clearly oriented in
either handshake or urban greeting ready position.

Simply put, it's like partner dancing - one must lead for the other to follow,
or else you'll end up with the 'ball-and-socket' when one goes for the fist
bump and the other for the handshake/high five.

~~~
gertertsgsdfa
Yeah, I hug loads of my male friends too, and, like you, it's all about
following their cues (and providing your own). Interestingly, my Dad isn't
comfortable with hugging men at all, so I don't force him into it. What I find
works really well with him is the handshake + shoulder pat + hold. It's
basically half a hug, but he's okay with it. Maybe the author of the blog post
should try that.

------
bjhoops1
I might add to this, the traditional handshake or the bro handshake. You know,
this one:
[http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/621236127....](http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/621236127.gif)

I'll never forget the time I accidentally gave my dentist a bro shake. You
should have seen how excited he got. Poor lonely dentists...

~~~
kvcrawford
Yes, personally, I have a much more difficult time figuring out which bro
handshake is about to go down in an informal setting...which has resulted in
some terrible awkwardness. It is much easier to read a female coworker's body
language in the workplace to tell if she likes hugs or not.

------
danielrm26
Would you hug Hilary Clinton if you’ve met her on two or three different
occasions? Of course not. And it’s the same for the female CEO of a major
bank. So then, why would you hug a female work associate that you’ve only met
twice?

Answer: you don’t hug Mrs. Clinton or the female CEO because you respect them
too much.

Now, notice that this is how men treat ALL males.

[http://danielmiessler.com/blog/on-hugs-vs-handshakes-for-
fem...](http://danielmiessler.com/blog/on-hugs-vs-handshakes-for-female-work-
associates)

~~~
ricardobeat
Your feelings probably come from the idea that "Men don’t do this with other
men". They do, just not in your social group or culture. It's not
disrespectful; if you don't really know each other it's awkward at worst.

Simple test: would you go get coffee with this person, with no business
interests? Yes) Hug for men, hug+cheek-kiss for women, No) Hand-shake.

Disclaimer: I'm from Brazil.

~~~
itsybitsycoder
I think this is a big part of it. As a woman I prefer handshakes in most
business situations, but I would be totally fine with a hug or hug+cheek-kiss
in a more casual business environment if they were also hugging/cheek-kissing
my male colleagues. If they hug/cheek-kiss everybody, they're just a huggy,
kissy person and that's fine. If someone hugged/kissed me but shook hands with
my male colleagues, to me that says they think their relationship with me is
somehow different from their relationship with my male counterparts, and that
would make me very nervous.

------
DoubleMalt
When I came to Vienna, the big city, being a slightly awkward nerd, it took
serious adjustment to the fact that all male/female and female/female
greetings of people that know each other fairly well involved cheek kissing
(twice, starting with the right cheeks).

But I got used to it, and even learned different forms (twice, starting left -
dunno where high chance for funny misunderstandings, thrice, starting right -
Serbia iirc).

I greet everybody with a Handshake when I meet them the first time but can say
the most universal rule is just to be relaxed about it.

People that are so uptight to have a bias against someone where the first
greeting results into some awkwardness through cultural differences (where
cultural differences cann also easily occur even within the same city), is not
someone I want to be acquainted most of the time.

Contrary I even find a little misunderstanding about greeting protocol on a
first meeting being a good ice breaker.

For business purposes I would of course always plead for erring on the
conservative side ;) handshakes work well most of the time.

~~~
codfrantic
In the Netherlands we also use the three cheek kisses, foreigners get used to
it quick enough if you ask me :-)

------
drucken
I have been told off more than once for not hugging women. That said, the
kiss-on-the cheek thing is very popular in continental Europe for
acquaintances.

The only strangers I make a point of hugging are Germans, just to freak them
out!

But seriously, as long as you greet _sincerely_ with any action, you are
highly unlikely to cause offense. Just note their reaction for future
reference after.

More importantly is how much personal space you give them after that point. A
one-off strange greeting is almost always acceptable; occupying someone's
personal space for an extended time is another matter entirely...

------
ceautery
Several years back I was in a meeting with a very extroverted Italian man,
well known to the group and a VP of something or other. He was handing out
awards of some sort, and doing the extroverted Italian huggy thing. It was
endearing, and most of the women were game, except one towards the end who was
nervous about it. The VP read her body language and adjusted to handshake and
a happy apology with contrite head bobbing and hand waving.

I was next, and on a whim called out "I'll hug you, Joe," and did so with
gusto, to much laughter from the room. It was shocking, as I'm the guy who
does nothing with anyone. No handshake, no hug, just radiating a pleasant
uncomfortableness.

There are only two people I habitually hug, though, my wife and my father-in-
law; the latter being much less awkward than my use of a semicolon. He's the
Kramer to my Soup Nazi, and we get along famously for no apparent reason
(aside from a common interest in his daughter's welfare, that is).

------
carlyle4545
This reminds me of the awkwardness of seeing someone you sort-of know in
passing and deciding whether to stop and chat with them or just say "Hey! How
ya doing?" and continue walking.

The "stop and chat" dilemma immortalized by Larry David:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f2LJXz-l2k>

~~~
claudius
"Hi" and a smile/nod appears perfectly appropriate. But it certainly depends
on the cultural background.

------
praptak
Isn't the social norm[1] to wait for a woman to initiate the handshake?

The norm doesn't specify the timeout but to me it comes naturally to just nod
and say hello after the "moment"[2] I am convinced the timeout happened.

[1] It certainly is in Poland and I am fairly convinced about Western Europe
too

[2] About one and a half igniseconds [3]

[3] www.unwords.com/unword/ignisecond.html‎

~~~
claudius
The social norm for Berlin would be for the higher-up to initiate the
handshake, regardless of gender. This is especially true on first
introduction, otherwise, the arriving person usually offers their hand first.

~~~
illuminate
Fascinating, I tend to offer first to avoid the awkward lull of waiting to see
who would otherwise, I rarely ponder how that would be taken.

------
abrichr
I hug all my friends, male and female. If they seem uncomfortable, I just make
a mental note to shake their hand instead in the future.

------
claudius
What I find even more inappropriate is random women I talked to once suddenly
thinking it is necessary to hug me. Really, no. We can shake hands if you
insist, but a hug is an absolutely no-go unless you are closer than close
family.

~~~
unalone
Some people are just huggers. As a fan of hugs I approve of people who get
down to hugging quickly, though I understand why non-huggers would be squicked
out by that.

If that wigs you out, I have a particular friend group for whom kissing
becomes a thing almost immediately after they've met you. The first time it
happens it can be absurdly disorienting.

~~~
troels
I love how you're framing people as "huggers" or "non-huggers". Similar to the
good old "technical" and "non-technical".

~~~
pdenya
Bad comparison because hugger vs non-hugger is a preference, not a range of
understanding.

------
ducksauz
In business situations, stick with the handshake. A hug is just inappropriate.
Save those for friends and family.

As for the handshake, go with Ron Swanson's advise: Firm, Dry, 3 seconds.

------
stargazer-3
To make it even more complicated, people from different counties react
differently to hugging. Taiwanese, for example, often seem be quite
uncomfortable with it.

~~~
heyitsnick
In Argentina, everyone kisses once on the cheek, including between men.
Certainly a culture shock at first, put it avoids all the ambiguity in
NA/Europe.

Edit: I should say I only know that to be true in the BsA area. Not sure about
other provinces.

~~~
w0utert
In most of Europe, kissing each other on the cheek in informal settings is
also perfectly normal, but usually not between men. Where I'm from
(Netherlands) three kisses on opposing cheeks is more or less the standard
greeting if at least one girl/woman is involved, but only after you get to
know each other a little better. In other European countries, 3 kisses is
weird but 1 is normal. I've never been anywhere in Europe where hugging is
considered a normal way of greeting, except among close friends and relatives,
and usually only in special situations (haven't seen each other in a very long
time, or meeting under difficult circumstances). When I visit the US, the
first time someone tries to hug me still keeps surprising me...

So yeah, greeting seems to be a pretty diverse and complicated cultural
phenomenon ;-)

~~~
heyitsnick
French kisses - when you greet a friend, how many times do you kiss?
[http://24.media.tumblr.com/ea0ed4cd8ed84bd2d52b2b4d6e96caf7/...](http://24.media.tumblr.com/ea0ed4cd8ed84bd2d52b2b4d6e96caf7/tumblr_mk019fZVIf1rasnq9o1_500.png)

Survey where strict boundaries matching the provinces of France are found. The
number of kisses varies from one to five (!).

------
prawn

      Male friends or business contacts = handshake.
      Female on first contact or in any business context = handshake.
      Female acquaintance I don't know particularly well = smile and Hi before there's any ambiguity.
      Female friend or reasonable acquaintance (e.g., wife's friend) = kiss on the cheek (each side with female relatives).
    

Are the hugs being discussed in this thread actual hugs? Or going in close as
though to kiss on the cheek, but not actually touching cheeks? Or more like
the way male athletes embrace each other?

If you act awkwardly or second-guess, it'll be awkward. If you end up in one
of those weird situations where you half handshake and half kiss or confuse
kissing sides and somehow brush lips, just laugh it off. "Well, I screwed that
up!"

(I'm in Australia.)

------
karmel
Granted, I am the kind of girl who reads Hacker News, but, for what it's
worth, it's often awkward for us, too. For men or women! Hug or handshake? Or
wacky Euro kiss thing? I find myself hugging after first meet, unless we're at
work or in a professional context, in which case I default to handshake. The
awkwardness occurs at, for example, work parties, where the party leads me to
default to hug, but then I second guess at the last moment, realizing I
normally only interact with so-and-so professionally. In the end, I usually
settle on, oh-well-he/she-will-adapt and hug. Act with confidence, and any
potential awkwardness washes away...

~~~
claudius
> Act with confidence, and any potential awkwardness washes away...

Please, no. Not everyone wants to hug you, not everyone wants to kiss you, not
everyone wants to have sex with you. Default to no physical contact unless it
is _very_ clear that both parties are happy with that contact. Acting with
confidence is simply pressuring the other party into agreeing.

~~~
harshreality
> Please, no. Not everyone wants to hug you, not everyone wants to kiss you,
> not everyone wants to have sex with you. Default to no physical contact
> unless it is very clear that both parties are happy with that contact.
> Acting with confidence is simply pressuring the other party into agreeing.

You're okay with handshakes? That's physical contact.

It's not about what _you_ or some other introvert _wants_ to do. It's a
question of social norms. You either conform, or you'll be considered to be
antisocial.

You should _really try_ to understand the difference between a hug/cheek-kiss
and sex. Where in this thread has anyone suggested that sex between strangers
meeting for the first time, business associates, coworkers or even friends is
a social norm?

~~~
claudius
Firstly, the social norms in my circles are not to hug/kiss.

Secondly, isn’t one of the main points of the feminist movement to abolish
‘rape culture’ where it is the social norm to pressure people into intercourse
against their will? So even if hugging/kissing was a social norm, that hardly
says anything about its acceptability.

Thirdly, I don’t see much of a qualitative (rather than quantitative, in some
sense) difference between hugging/kissing and sex – both are forms of intimate
physical contact with a strong emotional component, as opposed to handshakes,
which usually lack these emotions and require much less contact.

Fourthly, I don’t really mind being perceived as anti-social by those stubborn
enough to force their superfluous, unhelpful and intruding habits onto others.
Interesting people usually don’t do that.

------
peterwwillis
Do not hug someone without asking first. Also, don't do the open-arms-moving-
in-and-then-asking-for-a-hug. People who might feel uncomfortable hugging you
now feel socially forced to. Ask the first time, and ask if you can hug them
again in the future.

If you're really feeling awkward, start out with a hand wave as you approach
the person... either they'll wave back, or try to initiate a handshake/hug
with you. Either way it's a good enough greeting for friends and co-workers
alike.

This is cultural, of course. In Latin America the cheek kiss is expected, and
if you don't give it it's considered rude.

~~~
corin_
In the UK (or at least among people I know, both personally and in work
circles), _asking_ if you can hug someone would be just about the most awkward
thing you can do.

I don't really have any advice on a better answer, for me it just... feels
natural. For both work and personal, both men and women, there are some who
I'd hug, some a kiss on the cheek (women only for this one - except a few
people in France/Belgium I work with), others whose hand I'd shake every time
I see them and others who I'd just greet verbally. Same with female. Never
stopped to think about it, or discussed it, just happens.

~~~
peterwwillis
It may feel awkward at first, but asking is a form of showing respect. The
worst that can happen is they say no.

Maybe the best reason to do this is to practice consent culture in our
everyday lives. As it relates to HN readership, consent culture would go a
long way in improving the work [and convention] environment for women in
technology. I wish more awkward nerds would read up on this.

<http://pervocracy.blogspot.com/2012/01/consent-culture.html> (this blog might
be NSFW)

~~~
corin_
I think our circles may have different social norms. Being asked wouldn't feel
like respect, it would feel even more awkward than asking someone else.

And the idea that this needs a shift towards "consent culture" is just...
weird. Maybe some people can't read, or don't feel comfortable trying to read,
the signs as to what will work socially, and if they want to set rules that's
fine. I don't have any problem with someone who will only shake hands, or who
won't have any physical contact at all - hell, if they want to follow your
rule of always asking, I'd feel awkward, but if that's what you prefer then
whatever, I'm fine with that. But don't assume everyone needs to follow your
rule. For the record I've never asked anyone if they want to have sex, that
hasn't lead to me raping anyone.

~~~
peterwwillis
I acknowledge that you would not like to be asked for a hug. Different people
like to be treated differently. But my rule accounts for one thing: there is
more potential for harm by not asking. Better safe than sorry, as it were. You
are welcome to ignore my suggestion :-)

(Also, the article doesn't suggest you ask everyone before you have sex with
them; it's more about being mindful of "is this person really into it, or
could I be pressuring them?" If you believe it is impossible for this to
happen, think again, as all perception is skewed by personal bias)

~~~
corin_
Re: your parentheses. I didn't read the article, but your point of "ask
everyone if they want a hug", if it's important enough for that, surely you
should definitely ask everyone when it comes to sex! The "ask yourself if they
are OK with it" approach is exactly what most people do with
handshakes/hugs/etc.

------
INTPenis
Growing up it was regular for all my male friends to hug when greeting each
other. I still do this with new male friends if we haven't seen each other in
a long time, or are just happy to see each other.

------
jbrooksuk
Thank god I'm not the only one who worries about this.

What I do is imagine I'm going for a handshake, if their arm extends it's
likely they're looking for a handshake, otherwise turn it into a soft hug!

------
migueldiab
I am a 32 year old male from South America... here a handshake is way to
formal for most interactions... For example... You go out with 2 friends for a
beer... they bring a 3rd friend you don't really know... it's ok to shake his
hand, but if you kiss him, nobody will be offended...

Scenario 2 : You are at a birthday party/after office/whatever social
gathering, and you are presented a person from the opposite sex DO NOT shake
his/her hand... That is as rude as you can get, what are you afraid of?

Scenario 3 : You go to your girlfriends house, and are introduced to his
father, you shake his hand, because you ate trying to show respect. After the
first few visits, you will most likely kiss him hello/goodbye

Also, in Latin America we do 1 kiss mostly, in Brazil 2 kisses are the norm,
some other places are up to 3...

So I believe no matter what happens, try to talk about it, stay open, and
remember that awkwardness tends to go away the minute you say "I'm sorry, that
was awkward, was I supposed to kiss or shake?"

Cheers everybody,

mike out.

~~~
throwaway1980
It is so refreshing to hear from somebody outside of the US.

------
pasbesoin
A primary problem I have with any sort of bodily contact: When it is not
genuine. (And my intuition is pretty good on this point.)

Where this perhaps becomes a problem for me is when I correspondingly cannot
"fake it", whether that be a "firm, engaging" handshake, or hug (ugh...), or
whatever.

I welcome a firm handshake at the end of conversation or negotiation with a
straight-dealing, engaged counter-party.

I despise the glad-handing salesman or the like. And, dude, when you sidle up
next to me and drape your arm over my shoulder? GTFO.

Hugging someone with whom I don't have some level of intimacy? In significant
part an exercise in not pressing the wrong body parts together.

Hugging someone who is a real friend? A momentary welcoming of their physical
presence and comfort in same.

So, to summarize: Welcome contact comes from being respectful and cognizant of
our relationship (or lack thereof).

P.S.

> And, dude, when you sidle up next to me and drape your arm over my shoulder?
> GTFO.

That also goes -- this is from a hetero male perspective -- for the overly
touchy female. There are some who use physical contact as a tool for foisting
a temporary intimacy onto another party that is used for one degree or another
of manipulation.

Guys do this, too -- if you read my "dude", above, as being male; although it
could be taken in a gender-neutral fashion.

The point of my postscript is to clarify that, from my perspective, both
genders can do this... "over-touching", although the details may vary from
instance to instance.

I know it's done in good part because it often works, to greater or lesser
degree. But, I for one find it annoying as hell because _it is not genuine_ ,
and/or it seeks to exercise a degree of control and manipulation I do not
welcome.

------
Cieplak
I think the decision to hug or shake depends more on the body language in the
context of the situation, than it does on the nature of a given relationship.
Even if someone is not an investor or manager, it would not be appropriate to
hug him or her if their body language was closed off.

~~~
patrickmay
"I think the decision to hug or shake...."

Two great greetings that go great together!

------
davidkatz
This has been bothering me for a while, and I generally come down on the side
of hugging. Hand shaking with a woman always seems to me like I'm forcing a
male to male ritual on the situation. No matter how formal the meeting is, it
always seems off. Now, granted, I'm not going to hug the female CEO of a
company I'm doing business with at the first meeting, but even so, a handshake
still feels off.

My general rule of thumb is – if I'm comfortable with the person and she's a
woman, it's a hug. If I'm not comfortable, it's a handshake and a small inner
sigh at the inadequacy of it. I don't consciously think about if it's work or
not work, but I do of course tend to feel less comfortable with work contacts
than I do with other social contacts, at least for the first few meetings.

~~~
itsybitsycoder
What about a handshake makes you feel it is a male ritual?

------
twrkit
must be a slow news day, this got picked up by beatabeat:
[http://betabeat.com/2013/05/to-hug-or-not-to-hug-hacker-
news...](http://betabeat.com/2013/05/to-hug-or-not-to-hug-hacker-news-
commenters-unsure-of-how-to-interact-with-real-live-human-ladies/)

~~~
ricardobeat
A news vehicle writing an article solely to poke fun at a niche online
community. 21st century Journalism...

~~~
claudius
At least now we all know that people saying that HN turns into Reddit are not
actually complaining, but complimenting on the improvements!

------
Unwitnessed
The worst type of handshake is the one between (typically) two men where a guy
is trying to assert himself and clamp down on your hand with a firm handshake
but they clamp too early. Instead of gripping your hand when the cruxes of
your thumbs and forefingers meet, he clamps down on your fingers and mashes
them painfully. I cannot help but feel that people know when they are doing
this, but they silently persist in it anyway because they get to assert their
dominant role as if to say, "Ha, I have the upper hand," with this smugly
underhanded gesture. It also seems like people that do this tend to be
overbearing and obnoxious in general. Has anyone else noticed this?

------
socialist_coder
I don't like shaking hands (business handshakes are fine) or hugging unless
it's a loved one or someone you are really close to and generally want to feel
the embrace from the hug. Otherwise I think it's just pointless touching to
signify some non-existant closeness.

What's wrong with just saying "hi"? Or a friendly fist-bump if you want to do
something more fun?

I especially hate meeting a new group of people and having to shake _every_
hand. It's so stupid.

As an American now living in Germany I always have to hug every single friend
I've met more than once. I do it just because it's the expected behavior but I
don't necessarily enjoy it.

FWIW I do feel like I'm a real life Larry David sometimes.

~~~
claudius
I am from Germany and greet my friends with a ‘hi’ and no handshakes,
especially in academic backgrounds. At the THW, people shook hands, which was
fine with me, too. Furthermore, handshakes if you meet for the first time in
any context, unless the group is so large you don’t get introduced to everyone
individually.

Hugs are for close family and I will make it _very_ obvious that I don’t want
to hug you if you try.

~~~
socialist_coder
I wish my friends were like you!

------
volandovengo
What even worse is the cultures where you throw another type of hello/goodbye
gesture into the mix.

Take Montreal, Canada: Half of the population there says goodbye via two air
kisses, half hug, then you got the formal handshakes into the mix. Nobody
announces what they're doing when they go in, so it's not uncommon to get the
hug + two air kisses, which feels a little sexual to me.

To add to the complexity, you have people of different cultures in the city.
Arab men for example kiss on the cheek but don't kiss the women. So you need
to size a person's culture, sex + the level of the relationship up whenever
saying hello or goodbye to people.

------
AhtiK
Most of the time even a handshake can be too much.

Reminds me a post from David Cohen [1] who pointed to Brad Feld on the same
topic [2].

Time to wake up that bro courage and start fist-bumping people ;)

With hugging there's always also the dilemma of whether to pat a few times or
just a strong hug, so the CPU cycles just drive me mad.

[1] <http://www.davidgcohen.com/2012/11/20/not-shaking-hands/>

[2] [http://www.feld.com/wp/archives/2009/01/im-done-with-
handsha...](http://www.feld.com/wp/archives/2009/01/im-done-with-
handshakes.html)

------
JDGM
I like to use spacing here. There's a sweet spot between hug distance and
handshake distance where you can often read which the other person wants to go
for and likewise telegraph to them which one you have in mind. A barely
perceptible move back and shake or a gentle move in and hug, or perhaps
something else entirely. Body language is your friend.

This comment originally started as an analogy to striking distance and
grappling distance in a fight, but I couldn't make it read unsatirically.

------
lxt
Generally speaking, if it's business, no hugging, unless the person is also a
good friend. If someone I had met exactly once before decided to hug me the
second time, and it was in a work context, I would put them solidly in the
creeper bucket. Sorry.

(Demographic disclaimer: I am a woman and an engineering manager. Also
Australian which I think means I have a slightly bigger personal space than
the average American.)

------
voidlogic
>>kiss on the cheek

Interesting I don't think that I have ever seen that except on TV/movies.
(Outside of grandparents and grandchildren)

I've always thought of hugs involving males as reserved for family and close
female friends (or your girl friend/wife’s close female friends). Hug in a
business setting.. never!

I've also thought handshakes should be as medium strength as possible.

I live in the U.S. Great Lakes region/Midwest.

~~~
jaimebuelta
In Spain (where I come from) that's usual except in the most formal
environment when a female is involved (male/female and female/female). For
example, the first time I meet my (female) boss (or coworker), I'll give a
handshake. Once we have a working relationship, is common to cheek-kiss
(twice, starting left, just touching the cheeks, and optionally kissing to the
air, doing very obviously and simulating loudly the sound is very posh)

If the relationship is close, you can actually kiss the cheek of the other
person, but that's optional. If the relationship is very close, you will hug
and kiss on the cheek, but just once.

On males, if the relationship is close (family or close friends), you'll get
the hug and kiss once, though it depends on people. A "casual" handshake
and/or hug it's the common for friends.

All this complicated ritual is called "kissing", so I guess can be difficult
to know when to do what for foreign people, but it gets typically done in a
very casual way, so most people won't feel very awkward if they try to kiss
and get a handshake or otherwise.

Curiously, only a couple of months after I came to Ireland, I met the
girlfriend of a coworker, and she introduces herself with a handshake. I shake
her hand, and then said: "Oh, I'm too new here, I almost kiss you". Just as
the words escaped my mouth I got how weird that sounds (the look on her face
was also funny). I didn't talk to her on the rest of the night or try to
explain myself. Too embarrassing :-D (I've talked to her later, so I don't
think there's bad feelings involved or anything)

------
ffn
Maybe it's me and my clearly misogynistic contributing-to-the-patriarchy-and-
oppressing-my-female attitude toward the whole thing, but with females I
always try my hardest to be friendly with hugs over handshakes. Most of them
are totally okay with this (even my former professors), but if not, it was my
privilege to embarrass myself and come off as a creeper to you.

------
bradezone
In a work environment, ALWAYS make sure to use the proper business hugs:

1) <http://youtu.be/80yjtJFf-v0> 2) <http://youtu.be/_zQviu9N6Hc> 3)
<http://youtu.be/A_6UzC-dw04>

------
esperluette
I generally don't mind being hugged (given adequate cleanliness of the hugger
and absence of anything that could be considered creepy, e.g. lingering groin
contact) but I prefer the two-handed handshake (the "full Clinton") as a way
to express more warmth than a plain handshake and less um, intimacy than a
hug.

------
iamben
I shake hands with everyone on first meet or in an office environment, male or
female. Outside of an office environment, I'll still shake on a first meet,
but am happy to hug, cheek kiss or whatever else if I know the person.

Edit: just do whatever you do with confidence and a smile. Doesn't really
matter after that.

------
reiche
Women wanted to be treated equally to the men in the workplace, so no hugs
from me. Simple and straightforward.

~~~
unalone
This is silly logic.

If you were really treating women equally to men, you wouldn't follow a
"what's good for one is good for the other" policy. You'd accept that the
norms and behaviors of each gender should be held in equal regard, and adapt
your own behavior to the person or group of people you're talking with.
Acknowledging, in other words, that women have as much right to be in the
workplace as men, rather than treating their actions as somehow foreign or
alien to the "acceptable" male norms.

I mean, your simple and straightforward logic is the logic that four-year-old
boys use when they want to punch girls on the playground and don't feel like
being courteous.

~~~
claudius
This is very non-silly logic. Why should I care about your chromosome
configuration or sexual identification? It is not my business, and I expect
you to respect that. Hence it is absolutely obvious to treat men and women
equally and not adapt one’s greetings procedures to the gender of the other
person.

After all, punching girls is _exactly_ as appropriate as punching guys.

~~~
unalone
If you think that treating genders equally has nothing to do with accepting
variations in social norms, then you're missing pretty much the whole purpose
of the "treat women equally to men" thing.

Gender inequality is almost wholly a social problem, not a biological one. And

~~~
claudius
> Gender inequality is almost wholly a social problem, not a biological one.

Yes. A problem where people find it appropriate for women to hug men but not
for men to hug women. A problem where people find it appropriate for women to
hug women but not for men to hug men. A problem where people find it
appropriate to expect men to hug women. A problem where people find it
appropriate for boys punching boys but not for boys punching girls.

You can hardly get any more gender-unequal than that.

------
fredleblanc
I try to short-circuit awkwardness by putting my hand up to high-five people.
If there's someone between handshake and hug, I've found that gesture is
comfortable enough for most, explains the situation without saying anything,
and gives everyone a way out. Your mileage may vary.

~~~
intrazoo
I came here to say this. Oh course it is not perfect all the time, but I find
it useful in team and personal-world situations all the time. Sometimes, if
i'm feeling really campy, i say "good game" too (if it is at the end of
something).

------
adnanh
I find it hard doing a handshake with females, I always try not to apply too
much strength and in result end up with taking their hands like they used to
do with princesses - you know, I end up holding their fingers. And that makes
it even more awkward :-(

------
eatrawchowder
This reminds me of the awkward greeting between 50 cent and Erin Andrews. In
that situation should 50 cent have greeted her with a hug and kiss or was that
inappropriate? Was Erin Andrews right to act the way she did because she was
working?

------
oyvindeh
Social interaction is probably the most complicated thing we do. Even as
engineers.

------
edcastro
It all depends on the country of origin of the person you are dealing with. In
Brazil, for example, is very common to both handshake and give a cheek kiss on
women after the first meeting, even if in a formal environment.

~~~
asaramis
Agreed, I'm American but went to a French business school. I am still
completely thrown off even with cheek-kissing women, and god help me when one
of the guys goes in for the double-double.

------
bbwharris
Go for the one arm hug. It's half handshake half hug, it's a hugshake.

------
melloclello
Hug more people imo, geez

~~~
lucian1900
Many people appear to be offended and creeped out by that, at least in some
cultures. And especially females if you're a male.

------
skreech
I offer a hug to anyone who I'm not in a professional relationship with. Most
people seem to like this, and if they don't, I switch to a 'bro hug' in mid-
motion. Nice and simple.

~~~
migueldiab
I think this is a nice technique and have tried it with more or less success,
also, I tried to appeal to the normality of hugging someone by just calling
someone out "Stop whining and hug me please!" :)

------
monk_e_boy
Meh, I just tell people hugs make me feel uncomfortable. Some people are fine,
some demand a big hug to help me out of my shell. Either way it's a win.

------
wtbob
Easy: shake hands, always. Hugging is for close family.

I suspect that if someone I were in business with tried to hug me, we'd not be
in business for very much longer.

------
ouiea
Guide to give the perfect man-hug <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUdWApwbudQ>

------
wfjackson3
If it looks like it is going to be weird, I try to ask people if they are a
hand-shaker or a hugger. I am cool with whatever makes them comfortable.

~~~
patrickmay
Slapping? Or is that weird?

~~~
illuminate
Backslapping without a hug is definitely weird.

------
jeffcarroll
I generally let the other person initiate contact and just go with the flow.
If you have any doubt, it's best to err on the side of handshakes.

------
niico100
Switch it up to a fist bump - often makes people laugh, specially if it's an
uptight business situation + it's more hygenic....

------
kkanojia
In India always handshake never hug. I mean never hug unless she is very
comfortable around you.

------
biotech_anon
Is there any acceptance for bowing outside East Asia, or salutes outside of
the military?

~~~
Kuiper
I've heard stories of some American professional environments borrowing
Japanese-style bowing during the 1980's, when Japanese business was revered by
some in corporate America.

Then the 1990's happened, and now it doesn't seem like there's as much of a
desire to emulate the superficial elements of Japanese business culture. That
being said, I don't think that eastern-style bowing has ever been commonplace
for western business environments.

------
imagist
Just go for the hug; why do you want to create distance?

Also, why would guys be any different?

------
alanvitor
It's a good question for old days Seinfeld!

------
lexilewtan
Shane's such a good writer. well said

------
Kyber92
If in doubt bro-shake.

------
newman314
Solution: Fist Bump

------
BigBalli
it's awkward only if you make it awkward.

------
jkaunisv1
Unsure? Wave.

------
Suitov
I wave!

------
Tangaroa
Hugs are sexual harassment. Any unrequested contact with the opposite sex is
cause for immediate termination (or expulsion if you're still in school) and
may lead to criminal charges.

Different cultures are different, but this is the standard drill repeated from
elementary school onward through workplace policies in my part of the US.
People routinely ignore it without punishment, but it's there hanging over the
head of everyone.

~~~
imsofuture
_Hugs are sexual harassment._

That's just not true. A hug _could_ be sexual harassment, but so could a
_really dirty_ handshake. Let's not live in a world where we're scared of
normal interaction.

~~~
patrickmay
I now have a strong desire to shake your hand.

~~~
newman314
Twice.

Sorry. You just made me laugh out loud.

