
How many cows does it take to make a burger? - cwan
http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2009/10/the_world_is_flat_kind_of_gros.cfm
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samanthapcohen
I assume you mean "How many cows does it take to make a hamburger?" A good
question with a disgusting answer. According to the same NYT article on the E.
coli-ridden burger that paralyzed a children's dance instructor, "a single
portion of hamburger meat is often an amalgam of various grades of meat from
different parts of cows and even from different slaughterhouses." Sources vary
on the precise number, but on average they report that in a single burger
there are parts from 50-100 distinct cows. That number ignores the pieces of
still other cows ground into the food eaten by the cows in the burger.

Better answer: Zero! Eat delicious veggie burgers instead.

~~~
moron4hire
"Delicious" is certainly up to interpretation. Additionally, if "meat is
murder", then why so many "fake murder" products?

I don't really see what the issue is with the article. So hamburgers are a
homogeneous mix of meat from multiple cows. I never had deep-seated
convictions that they only came from one cow in the first place. Does a bag of
frozen vegetable medley come from one plant? Does it even come from one plant
per type of vegetable?

~~~
danielmims
The significance of a hamburger being comprised of many different pieces of
multiple cows is that it's hard to track and there are higher-risk meats than
others. For example, meat that resided near the intestines/colon has a much a
higher risk of e. coli contamination.

Honestly, I'm with you in my lack of concern, but probably for a different
reason. It is a very small justice that meat-eaters should get e. coli from
time to time.

~~~
moron4hire
not adhering to handling standards is a different issue than "mixing meat from
different parts of the cow and different cows". And if you're going to act
like that, then it's poetic justice that a lot of vegans are malnourished.

~~~
danielmims
How would it be "poetic justice" for a vegan, who cares for other living
things, to be malnourished? They're just being _not evil_. Of course, being
vegan has all kinds of eprsonal health benefits in addition to its benefits
for others. Vegans have significantly lower rates of cancer and heart disease,
for example. Maybe you're one of those people who think that being trim is
equivalent to being malnourished. It isn't.

On the other hand, one who pays another to torture and slaughter living
creatures for his own discretionary meals is indeed making a withdrawal from
his/her karmic balance, if you will.

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jeremymims
You know what's sick? The fact that we slaughter 10 billion sentient, thinking
animals in the United States each year. And then we have the nerve to be
appalled that a tiny sliver of that suffering is transferred to humans. There
are not enough words to describe how misguided we all are.

~~~
moron4hire
I really don't think you can fairly call cows sentient. Along with chickens
and turkeys, they are some of the dumbest creatures around. They're barely
more than walking vegetables.

~~~
justlearning
I had to reply as I accidentally upvoted you.

I don't want to get into meat vs veg, but considering meat as "walking
vegtables" is inhumane thought.

Have you spent some time with any animals? Go spend some time with some
hens/roosters and their chickens. spend a day watching - watch how the mother
hen teaches her chickens to hop over obstacles and the chickens trying to find
the shortest path to hop over. Watch how each individual chickens have their
own personality. Watch the roosters personality - dominance/sexual drive...

My maternal grandfather had cows back in India. Every cow would respond
differently. He would talk to them, The calf would listen to him(when he would
milk the cow, the calf would get impatient for mumma's milk). One of the cows
wouldn't allow anyone other than my grand mom/grandfather to milk her.I have
more anecdotes, which helps me in connecting them animals and us animals.

So much for walking vegetables!. Perhaps you are just visiting here. Perhaps
you are here for the long run, but imho, please spend a _lot of time_ reading
here(searchyc for archives) before commenting.

~~~
evgen
A rat will nurture their young far more than a chicken, is much smarter, and
will display more personality than a chicken ever will. OTOH, if one shows up
in your kitchen I am sure you will be on the phone to the exterminator in
minutes. Just because a chicken or cow is cute does not make it "special" and
anthropomorphizing the activities of that animal is a pretty weak argument.

~~~
ibnez120
Nobody on this forum has argued for granting other animals moral consideration
based on cuteness or anthropomorphism. I didn't see anyone elevating anything
else over rats, either. Farm animals and rats intrinsically deserve not to be
tortured.

~~~
moron4hire
Torture was never mentioned by anyone other than the anti-meat crowd here.

~~~
ibnez120
That might be because we're the only ones here who are willing to call it what
it is. Meat-eaters may not want to admit that they are most often supporting
unbelievable torture -- a human's worst nightmare, in fact.

Obviously, the issue of torture is implicit in discussions of meat-eating in
our time, as the vast majority of meat has been tortured before it's been
eaten.

~~~
evgen
There is a difference between pain response and suffering. The latter requires
the consciousness to know what the future has in store for the organism.
Animals can be abused, but very few of them have the level of consciousness
required for the abuse to be "torture." You can pretend that animals are
people too all you want, but wishing it to be true does not make it so.

~~~
ibnez120
evgen,

You are completely wrong when you say "very few of them" have the level of
consciousness required for the abuse to be torture." All factory farmed
animals are tortured physically and psychologically -- tens of billions the
world over. The vast majority, if not all, of lab-tested animals are tortured
physically and psychologically.

You have no idea what it is to be tortured (not that this is required to take
those who have been tortured at their word). If you did, you wouldn't dismiss
the torture of those with very similar central nervous systems to ours so
lightly. And the fact is, torture of human animals can bring out all the fight
or flight evolutionary responses and fears we have within us as a result of
our completely animal history and existence. Your cavalier approach to the
tremendous suffering of others is a disgrace.

Once, again, you are trying to draw arbitrary lines based on what you want to
be true to justify your own behaviors, which are morally indefensible. Do the
research for yourself, since you don't want to listen to reason from anyone
else.

