
Basic Income – Part Five: How UBI Will Disrupt Poverty - jdenning
https://medium.com/@nataliedenning/basic-income-part-five-how-ubi-will-disrupt-poverty-811757741b36
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sharemywin
Until you fix addiction, UBI makes no sense. Why give people more money to
spiral out of control faster.

-giving drug addicts money will literally kill them.

[https://www.hhs.gov/opioids/about-the-
epidemic/](https://www.hhs.gov/opioids/about-the-epidemic/)

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posguy
UBI also is the quintessential unraveling of the social safety net, instead of
health care, we'll just give you a stipend in the mail and hopefully its
sufficient.

Addicts of all types, whether it be to drugs, gambling, a pyramid scheme or
schemes, or any number of other things have to make the choice to change. All
anyone besides themselves can do is encourage change. A dear friend of mine is
in for $1k a month with a "MLM", and just started to have a come to jesus that
he has thrown away upwards of $35k on Wake Up Now, Avon, etc. Its the same as
another friend of mine who is hooked on smoking (despite it killing his father
not 5 years ago), similar mental barriers/processes.

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sharemywin
I don't real equate smoking the same as gambling or hard drugs. Yes, they
aren't good and you can lose a lot/all but they are a few $100s a month
habits. Hard drug/gambling addictions will take all your money.

If don't believe me ask your self would you loan a smoker 10k?(probably
depends on there credit/employement) how about a gambling/mlm addict? how
about a heroin addict?

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posguy
Generally you'll get the same results, given the same conditions wrt
employment. I've employed heroin addicts before, and its the same trust but
verify type deal as a smoker or a gambler. Similar to a gambler, don't expect
to be able to get ahold of them outside business hours.

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airbreather
I live in Australia where you can be on social security for life and for some
it takes away the will to try, despite being quite a miserable amount.

I really don't see UBI as being an answer unless it is associated with some
form of individual social responsibility.

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dagw
I don't know about Australia, but in most European countries I know, it is
quiet easy to lose social security. Things like going back to school, taking
on part time or freelance work, trying to start a company, traveling abroad
for too long, working for charity etc. can all lead you losing your social
security. It also requires you to invest a fair amount of time jumping trough
seemingly administrative pointless hoops, where any misstep can again lead to
you losing money. So the problem is not so much that it takes away the will to
try as it actively discourages the will to try. Since UBI would be
unconditional and you cannot lose it shouldn't have any of those perverse
incentive problems.

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jdenning
Disclosure: I'm married to the author.

