

SpinPunch (YC S12) Aims To Build Faster, Prettier HTML5 Games - irunbackwards
http://techcrunch.com/2012/08/17/yc-backed-spinpunch-aims-to-build-faster-prettier-html5-games/

======
ZoFreX
Well, given all the talk about negativity on HN and what-not, I thought I'd
take a harder look at this to give some constructive criticism.

The graphics. Good, from a traditional RTS perspective. Limited and dated in
comparison, but c'mon it's HTML 5 and runs pretty smoothly. However, I don't
think you're going to get the traditional RTS market, a few minutes in they'll
get a whiff of the skinner-box-ness and run off. I assume you're going for the
more traditional Facebook game market, in which case I think the graphics need
to be made simpler and larger, and also more distinguishable - the units all
look quite similar. Think TF2 or Plants vs Zombies.

Speaking of target market - is there any point in using HTML5, really? It
impresses the hacker crowd but I'm not sure if there's any actual benefit to
your users - plus they'll all have Flash installed already and be used to
using it, to use your game they may well have to upgrade or switch browser.

As for the game content, it seemed a little fast paced to me? Perhaps give the
user more time to click around and fiddle with things between dialogs.
Definitely get them to repeat essential actions - maybe look into Valve's
"rule of 3" to make things less tutorial and more learn by doing. I can't be
certain about the pacing though as I haven't played any FB games recently.

Lastly, a couple of technical considerations.. please adapt the game window to
my screen size! Either the top or bottom controls are off the screen at any
given time for me (1440x900 display), and please don't crash the game if my
privacy settings are locked down!

~~~
it33
Thanks for the feedback!

Agree on many of the points you raised, particularly the tutorial changes
needed. Urg, sorry about the issue with your display. May I ask what browser
you're using? Also, sometimes browser add-ins cause issues, and if you figure
out if one might be responsible, we'd love to know.

In terms of crashing, wondering if you might remember the error message
received? I'm not aware of errors related to privacy settings, but if we have
one definitely want to fix it.

Thanks for taking the time to help us improve!

~~~
ZoFreX
I'm using Firefox 14 on OS X Lion.

Just triggered the error again, I got:

Communications Problem

Sorry, there has been a temporary network error. Please reconnect to Mars
Frontier. (code 0650)

~~~
it33
Thanks ZoFreX, yeah, this can happen sometimes when a network connection has a
hiccup. It's pretty common for connections--particularly on WiFi--to go down
briefly and randomly. You typically don't notice when reading a web page,
since your requests are intermittent, and streaming video hides it with
buffering. We need to get smarter here. Thank you the feedback.

~~~
ZoFreX
It's definitely not my connection hiccuping - I only get the error whenever
the game tries to do something with my friends, and I assume it's not a
coincidence that my privacy settings prevent it from doing so.

~~~
it33
Oh, that could be different. We're probably missing a case. Appreciate your
letting us know. Is this for inviting friends or messaging them? If your
privacy settings prevent this we should be more graceful in catching the error
than a connection failure.

------
mirsadm
First thing I'll say is that I really don't like the idea of using Flash,
HTML5 etc any web technology for making games. However I see the need for it.
I'd like to get more information though how your game engine makes it easier
to create faster/prettier games. I am a fan of Construct2
(<http://www.scirra.com/construct2>). They make it really easy to create HTML5
games (it is all point and click, no programming required).

What differentiates your technology from the many existing ones on the market
now?

Before the negative/hate comments star pouring in, maybe the OP/founders can
give us an insight and some more information on what their plans are.

~~~
it33
Hi mirsadm, excellent question. Our focus is pushing the limits of HTML5 to
rival hardcore PC and console games. Our alpha for Mars Frontier came out in
January, and some of our top players from the early days have spent over 500
hours in game so far. These guys are master competitors and dominate our
leaderboards. It's a very different dynamic than casual games, and we think it
requires a very different mindset and approach.

------
azakai
> Tien thinks the shift toward building more compelling browser-based gaming
> experiences is a matter of course, but doesn’t see too many players in the
> space really trying to push HTML5’s limits.

He doesn't? I see plenty, some random examples I can remember off the top of
my head,

Turbulenz

PlayCanvas

Game Closure

Cloud Party

and those are just new startups, there is a lot of interest from existing
companies as well (more slowly, though).

~~~
ZoFreX
Angry Birds has an HTML5 version [1]. Also, the article said that no good
browser games exist, not no good HTML5 browser games. There are some notable
exceptions to that claim, one that springs to mind is Quake Live.

[1]: <http://chrome.angrybirds.com/>

~~~
azakai
Well, I believe the intention there was HTML5 games (which Quake Live is not,
cool as it is).

But yeah, there are things like Angry Birds and Cut the Rope which show 2D
games working very well in HTML5.

------
luney
wanted to try the demo game. don't have/want a facebook account. didn't get to
try it.

~~~
azakai
Me too.

Is there any reason to make it run only on Facebook? Some requirement by
Facebook perhaps? If not, why wouldn't you at least put a preview version of
it outside of Facebook, which might make people interested enough to join?

~~~
ZoFreX
There's a very good reason to make it run only on Facebook - it's a "Facebook
game", through and through.

To be clear, this isn't a real-time strategy game. It is no different to any
of the hundreds of "skinner box" games already on Facebook. I let the app
access my Facebook, but refused to let it post anything to my friends (make
posts from this app available to: only me). Every time I reach an action where
it wants me to message my friends or post to my wall (these are frequent) the
app crashes and I have to restart it to continue. Probably not a coincidence!

In addition you can click on buildings in progress to speed them up, initially
for free but I've played enough of these games to know soon that resource will
become limited, unless I spam my friends or fork out cash.

From a gameplay perspective, you just click on what it tells you you need to
be clicking on next, and then do quests to unlock more items that you can
click on. You collect resources from your resource harvesting buildings by
clicking on them periodically when they are full, an absolutely classic FB
game feature that is completely absent from any actual PC game or RTS game.

Lastly, it doesn't even leverage the HTML platform well. One thing I expect
from HTML is for things to be at least semi-usable on many devices, and in
particular I expect sites to work well on reasonable resolutions. I'm on a MBP
and even in fullscreen mode, I couldn't get the whole game to fit on screen,
and so had to scroll in the browser to be able to click on some of the
buttons. This really negatively impacted my experience of button clicking,
especially as sometimes it took me a long time to figure out which button I
was being told to click.

Edit: Played on for a few more minutes, and sure enough, time, money, or
friends. I can really, really recommend that anyone on HN who hasn't played
one of these games creates a throwaway Facebook account and tries one out,
just to see how vacuous and manipulative these games really are.

~~~
azakai
Thanks for the explanation.

That's worse than I expected, you saved me the effort of trying it out.

~~~
ZoFreX
You should still try it out, because a) you shouldn't trust just one person
decrying something and b) because everyone should witness the awfulness of
skinner box games first-hand at least once!

~~~
azakai
Ok, ok :)

I registered and tried it. Technically the graphics and gameplay looked
smooth, but as far as 2D games go, I thought that was already normal in HTML5.
Despite the comment in the article, lots of people are doing stuff like this,
and even 3D content that looks very good.

As for the rest, the constant nagging to connect to Facebook friends was
highly annoying. But I guess that's the same as any Facebook game these days?

Otherwise, the game didn't really appeal to me, not sure why, I used to like
this genre. Something about the tutorial felt overly contrived perhaps.

~~~
ZoFreX
I wouldn't judge your like of the RTS genre on this game - if you are looking
for a good one, StarCraft II is probably the best recent one. Going back a
little, Dawn of War (I and II), Company of Heroes, and World in Conflict are
all worth a shot too.

