

A free online CodeLesson Java course for high schoolers - jeffreymcmanus
http://codelesson.com/courses/view/java-clinic-computer-science-education-week

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ynniv
Java: Because No One Hires Pascal Programmers Anymore

On a more serious note, it would be nice if the AP test used a language with
less baggage. Python is becoming popular, but Scheme still makes me happy.

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jeffreymcmanus
Agree with you on Python, but until universities stop using Java as their
teaching language it would be doing high schoolers a disservice to teach them
anything else. I can't imagine spending any time on Scheme since they're so
unlikely to get it in college.

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ynniv
_it would be doing high schoolers a disservice to teach them anything else_

That seems like a shortsighted thing to say. Subjects are introduced in
abstract ways that provide a basis for further exploration. How do you teach
abstract basics in Java? Just to write hello world you need to understand
functions, namespaces, classes, constructors, static functions, compilation,
file organization, arrays, and thats just what pops off the top of my head.
Kids won't actually learn these things early on, and will rely on templates
and copy and paste work that gets them the A without actually learning
anything. That would teach them them that programming is too complicated to
properly understand, which is certainly a disservice.

You can teach the concepts of Java in Scheme, and you can do it incrementally.
You can also show that Java is only one way to write code, and that it is
specialized for the types of environments it is used in. This would provide a
more sound basis for understanding whatever comes after Java, which is
important because Java is not going to be the dominent programming language in
50 years.

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jeffreymcmanus
Focusing on Java may very well be shortsighted on the part of today's college-
level technology educators, but it's what exists today. If you have a problem
with that, you'd have to take your concerns up with the people who run the
Computer Science AP exam (the College Board) and university CS departments.

We're not trying to overturn the ancien regime here, we're just trying to make
something available for kids who may not have access to computer science
education of any kind (which is the case at a vast number of US high schools).
When questions on Scheme are added to the advanced placement exam in computer
science, we'll cover that too.

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ynniv
Sorry, I didn't identify you as the original poster.

I appreciate any effort to help kids learn to program and be better prepared
for college computer science. You are correct in saying that my irritation is
with College Board and the average college computer science curriculum.

I am being hard on the abstract high school computer curriculum. It's a lofty
argument, and there isn't much that individuals can do to change it. HN is
often the place that people shout into the bitvoid and expect people with
similar opinions to echo back. This isn't particularly useful, but c'est la
vie. In this case I started off with a snarky comment that probably would have
been ignored except for the lack of other comments.

~~~
jeffreymcmanus
Absolutely not a problem, I understand and share your frustration. Our hope is
that by providing a place where all kinds of people can teach and learn all
kinds of things, we'll provide a useful compliment to the ossified curricula
that most CS programs use today.

Now we just need a Scheme course on CodeLesson!

