
'We good now China?' South Park creators issue mock apology - dgelks
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/oct/08/we-good-now-china-south-park-creators-issue-mock-apology-after-show-reportedly-censored
======
dekhn
I have to say, this is really the only way to respond to China when it comes
to their no-humor censors: just come out and mock them. They don't really have
any way to reply.

One wonders if there is an entire revolutionary class within China sharing
South Park videos for freedom.

~~~
throwaway_bad
Sometimes we forget that getting disappeared in china is not just a meme.

Police will show up to arrest you just for posting comments online:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCOAbkTs_a4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCOAbkTs_a4)

~~~
corodra
Well, lets not forget their detention camps for ethnic minorities they don't
like: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/23/china-
footage-...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/23/china-footage-
reveals-hundreds-of-blindfolded-and-shackled-prisoners-uighur)

I mean at this rate, I seriously think in a decade or two, we're going to find
a Holocaust level event has been going on in China that's going to make the
Nazis look like amateurs. But instead, we're focused on stupid left/right
political differences and figuring out whether gender binary bathrooms cause
anxiety.

~~~
hevi_jos
For your information, Mr Hitler killed over 5 million people.

Mao killed way over 30 million. Absolutely incompetent, he manage to remain in
power just using terror.

The other day there was an 70th anniversary of the founding of PRC and this
criminal's gigantic picture was at the hotspot.

~~~
throwaway_bad
Technically speaking it's not really apples to apples. One is due to malice
(hitler was actively trying to exterminate a race). The other is due to
incompetence (mao would've preferred if those people didn't die but was too
stupid to predict the result of his actions).

Not trying to defend either of them of course. But just for the record books
we would should have a saner way of counting.

If you're going to attribute deaths due to lack of foresight then the inventor
of cars probably have one of the highest kill counts. Or Genghis Khan for
fathering such a large population of mortals who eventually needs to die.

~~~
blix
> When there is not enough to eat, people starve to death. It is better to let
> half of the people die so that the other half can eat their fill.

I think you are overattributing his stupidity here. Engineered famine is a
fantastic way to make sure populations that don't like you are less of a
problem in the future. The Holdomor and Irish Potato Famine are two other
obvious examples.

------
zarro
Before this episode I always wondered why they kept making those bad
transformers movies, turns out China loves em.

I think its fine if people want to make movies for the China market, but what
I find alarming is copycat behavior trying to bring that sort of censorship
here.

It doesn't make any sense to me why anyone should apologize or censor
themselves creatively just because someone got salty about it. I find the
notion limiting someones creative expression to someone else's judgement of
"appropriate" to be despicably egregious.

Sure you can vote with your dollar and time by not watching something you
don't like, but its the creators prerogative what to create and what not to
create.

Anyone arguing the contrary on the effects of censorship has not looked into
the origin of the word.

~~~
nilkn
It's really not about morals at all. It's about money. China is the world's
most populous country, and a surprising number of American industries are
fairly dependent on revenue from Chinese customers. This effectively gives
China indirect control over multiple major US corporations. Until recently,
this has been hidden behind the scenes exceptionally well, but the curtains
are being pulled aside as China is becoming much more brash in their demands.
They're effectively demanding that Americans censor their speech in certain
contexts or else China will hurt American corporations doing business there.
And they're getting away with it.

~~~
onemoresoop
Why don't they create a version specific to China and censor it all they want?
Why do we all have to be bundled in that censorship? Only because it is easier
marketing and the are saving on logistics?

~~~
ip26
If western companies happily comply with their censorship demands, why would
they bother?

~~~
onemoresoop
Yes, it comes down to saving a few $$$ for the next quarter. And when box
office decrease due to alienating the western viewers the executives shrug
their shoulders and blame it on streaming instead. To be honest, I couldn't
care less, the stuff geared to the lowest common denominator for a few
continents is not on my watch list anyway, and hasn't been for a long time.
The only problem I foresee is on my part, explaining my kid why we won't be
watching such and such Disney show.

And I don't mean that I will make sure my kid won't be able to consume such
content because it is censored or dubbed down to please Chinese markets, kid's
to small to understand, but to the increasingly crappy quality of these shows.

------
siruncledrew
What’s kinda funny is how made fun of China was in past South Park episodes[0]
and China didn’t care at all about the show, but last week’s episode was the
one that set them off.

[0] “The China Probrem”:
[https://images.app.goo.gl/mDqxY6pSuNHtA66M8](https://images.app.goo.gl/mDqxY6pSuNHtA66M8)

~~~
waterhouse
Going off the Wikipedia plot summary of the episode, it looks like it makes
fun of (a) Chinese-American _people_ (not the Chinese government); and (b)
paranoid fantasies of Westerners about China invading the U.S.; and ultimately
"Cartman decides he'd rather be Chinese than "a nation of unethical dick
shooters"".

My model of the Chinese government at the moment is that they primarily care
about opposition/disrespect/criticism of the Chinese government. Does anyone
have data points as to whether they care about, say, present-day racist
insults of (a) Chinese-Americans; (b) Chinese living in China? Might be
interesting to see where the lines are drawn.

~~~
chrisweekly
Without touching on the ethical / moral aspect of stereotyping or
disrespecting large groups of people, I'm curious if "racist" is the right
adjective here, vs some other term that relates more to nationality vs
biological ethnicity?

~~~
SmirkingRevenge
The way South Park employs xenophobic/racist/sexist tropes is interesting -
they are either so silly that its really hard for anyone to take offense, or
they spread it around so much - no one group is ever singled out - and no one
group is ever spared. That gives us all permission to laugh at them, and laugh
at ourselves, when the time comes.

Or... the portrayal isn't actually targeting group of the character embodying
the trope. It's targeting those that hold such tropes, in a way that exposes
the absurdity of them.

There was a movie few years ago, Tropic Thunder. Robert Downy Jr is in black-
face the entire movie, and it's hilarious - and somehow he isn't cancelled.
Why? His character in the movie is a white, self-serious method actor (he
stays in character all the time), who had medical treatments to alter the
pigment of his skin in order to portray the African-American lead in a movie.
And his depiction is one giant super charged trope. But the actual butt of the
joke isn't black people - its actually the pretentious actors and Hollywood in
general. In essence, its making a statement about the absurdity, self-
importance, actors, studios, etc in Hollywood, and the lack of the social
justice and equality there.

South Park wields "*ist" tropes in a similar way, and I think its incorrect to
think of it as racism, or xenophobia, etc.

In South Park, there's one black character in the cast, and his name is Token.
As in the token black kid. Out of context, and on its face, it might seem
racist. But its saying something else, just like RDJ's role in Tropic Thunder.

~~~
cestith
To be more precise he's the only black fairly major child character. He has a
family, there was Chef in earlier seasons, there are a few black minor
recurring characters besides those, and there are black single-episode
characters. But yes, after the death of Chef it turns out Token is the only
major character who is black.

------
parkersweb
Click the link to watch the episode:

[https://southpark.cc.com/sitewide/img/messages/geoblock/gb.j...](https://southpark.cc.com/sitewide/img/messages/geoblock/gb.jpg)

The irony is not lost...

~~~
Paul-ish
I'm not sure what your point here is?

~~~
mhandley
I think the irony is that South Park is self-censoring for the European
market. I know that's not equivalent to state censorship, but it's still
ironic.

~~~
capableweb
That's not true. When I've been living in one of 5+ European countries, South
Park has always been available. You just have to follow the link in the bottom
and use the regional version of the website. No self censoring here.

------
_bxg1
I never thought South Park would be America's last hope.

~~~
chasd00
eh, don't be so quick. radical Islam forced them to censor

[https://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/23/arts/television/23park.ht...](https://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/23/arts/television/23park.html)

~~~
beerandt
South Park didn't back down, Comedy Central censored it post production.

------
SyneRyder
More discussion here:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21186916](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21186916)

------
umvi
I don't get the Winnie the Pooh meme. Is that a real thing Chinese people get
upset about?

~~~
bluetidepro
It's a meme that came from a picture a few years ago with Xi and Obama.
Source: [https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/people/xi-
jinping](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/people/xi-jinping)

> Is that a real thing Chinese people get upset about?

Most likely not their people, but their government.

------
dba7dba
Who knew CCP would be able to censor the west with, gulp, the might dollar.
The irony.

~~~
mlillie
Americans on any problem: "You've got to vote with your wallet to change the
world! That's the spirit of the free market and liberal democracy!"

China _votes with wallet_

Americans: "This is 'authoritarianism'"

~~~
dba7dba
China doesn't really vote with wallet. It's CCP telling/herding/forcing people
of China what to do and the populace is going along, because the alternative
isn't pretty for them.

------
totaldude87
Xi doesn’t look just like Winnie the Pooh at all -- damn that is one heck of
an apology LIT AF:)

------
throwaway13372
Despite knowing that Chinese people and the government are trained to react
poorly to mocking, and there are a long history of why such reaaction is based
on factual events in the history.

People are still trying to the same thing, instead of engaging a conversation
(for both parties). But people need to understand that such mocking will later
be used another proof that westerners are not sensitive enough to Chinese
people and government's feeling...

I am ATM plainly paralyzed by the superficial self-indulged righteousness from
both parties...

------
taf2
So we should meme everything and see how much we can get banned from China ??

------
paul7986
As this yet another reason the U.S. needs to rely on China in terms of
manufacturing And other things. The looney tune in office's stance isn't so
dumb after all.

------
peteretep
There was a time when the fact that they’re Americans would definitely protect
their right to do stuff like this, but these days I’d worry that China will
invalidate some Ivanka trademarks, and the creators will find themselves under
very heavy pressure from above.

~~~
diveanon
I truly doubt they would cave to any pressure at all.

Those two thrive on this kind of controversy, I can basically picture them
sitting back and rubbing their nipples while watching this unfold.

We need more people like Trey Parker and Matt Stone who aren't afraid of
starting some controversy to get a conversation started. They choose to do it
through cartoons and satire, but I honestly believe they understand our
society at a fundamental level.

~~~
ghostcluster
You have to give some credit to Viacom, the media company, for allowing the
show to air. Viacom owns Comedy Central, MTV, Paramount Pictures, DreamWorks,
and CBS among other media properties. They certainly have business interests
in China.

~~~
obituary_latte
I wonder if they were aware of the controversial nature of the episode. I’d
bet really money, though, Viacom et. al. wouldn’t hesitate for a second to
censor South Park if it starts hurting their bottom line.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
Outrage attracts eyeballs. This is good for their bottom line.

------
delfinom
There's potentially going to be more to come in Wednesday's episode given
their "apology" and it may start WW3.

~~~
Phillips126
Comparing the causes of WW1[0] and WW2[1], seeing the name "South Park" on the
WW3 wikipedia page [assuming the world still exists] would be the most bizarre
thing I could imagine. That being said, it may just happen!

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_World_War_I](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_World_War_I)

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_World_War_II](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_World_War_II)

~~~
jotm
That would go down as the single dumbest reason of civilization collapse,
surely?

~~~
Phillips126
Without a doubt!

~~~
major505
Or the best! you know what they say, if you gonna F __ __things up, do it in a
epic way.

------
Meai
In my opinion this fight is important but futile at the level of individual
companies. The USA as the only nation in the world with true free speech
protections should make free speech a requirement in their trade negotiations.
Even with Europe, we should not get certain tariff improvements until free
speech goes into law that deserves the name and is equivalent to the US level
of free speech.

~~~
wjoe
"The USA as the only nation in the world with true free speech protections"

Is this accurate? Legally, I understand that free speech is protected in the
US constitution. I'm sure it's not the only country in the world with free
speech laws, but I don't know how the specifics compare.

Culturally, the US seems less tolerant of free speech than plenty of other
places in the world. Obviously China is orders of magnitude worse, both
culturally and legally speaking.

~~~
barry-cotter
>> The USA as the only nation in the world with true free speech protections.

> Is this accurate? Legally, I understand that free speech is protected in the
> US constitution. I'm sure it's not the only country in the world with free
> speech laws, but I don't know how the specifics compare.

There is at least a very good case to be made that the US has by far the
strongest free speech guarantee. Commonwealth countries and the UK have
nothing as strong as the first amendment. Canada’s free speech commitment is
derisory in law because of the notwithstanding clause, the UK has the Official
Secrets Act and Australia doesn’t have a right to free speech in its
constitution.

I will pass over European countries with their Holocaust denial laws, bans on
swastikas and the ECHR deciding that saying Mohamed was a paedophile as
obviously having very weak commitments to free speech.

Maybe not the _only_ country with true free speech protections but certainly
it has the _strongest_.

~~~
kibibu
Ahem

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone)

~~~
beerandt
This is a gross misunderstanding of the concept, and it pisses me off.

Just because you have the right to free speech, doesn't give you the right to
someone else's audience. It doesn't give you license to harrass. It doesn't
give you license to trespass (including a properly licensed/permitted event on
public property). It doesn't give you license to disruptively yell over
whoever you might be protesting. It doesn't give you the right to be obnoxious
for the same of getting attention, like blocking traffic.

Hijacking someone else's gathering is infringing on both their right to free
speech and their right to peaceful assembly. Go have your own assembly
somewhere else. There is no right to disrupt. If you can say the same message
_anywhere else_ in the country without restriction or repercussion, then
you're freedom of speech hasn't been infringed.

That said, and even by that standard, the US is the most tolerant of free
speech by far.

