

Ask HN: What do we, Indian remote workers, have to do? - SingAlong

I'm getting towards the end of my university (CS degree), and I've done a bunch of freelance work (for many of you here even), as well as open source work. But recently, as I've started looking for more long term work, I find people looking to under-pay (the 'indian' tag).<p>But even that's OK, living here costs less, I can hang. What bothers me most however, is when people hint (or even bluntly say) they're skeptical about hiring remote Indian workers. I have a portfolio, a handful of connections, I've worked hard to prove myself honest, skilled, and hardworking.<p>So, is the mindset on HN the same as well? I can understand people who've had bad experiences with either Indian, or remote workers, but it's still so frustrating. I'm not interested in the corporate grind - I want to work with a startup where I can actually have a meaningful impact.<p>So what, my fellow HN'ers, would it take for YOU (you specifically) to hire me? I'm specifically interested in those of you who are in a position to hire, or have experience hiring. What do I have to show? What do I have to say? Hell, at this point, I'm wondering what I have to wear.<p>And when I say 'me', I mean any young Indian worker who's passionate about what they do but are getting shot down because of external factors.<p>Thank you for your advice HN!
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bjonathan
Hi,

I understand your pain. Things you could (not must) do:

\- have many recommendations on your LinkedIn profile from previous startups
CEO you worked for (a portfolio is great, but I also want proof that things
went smootly)

\- show me that you are a long term contributor to an open source project (I
know that many startups are afraid that you are gonna close skype and never
"show up" again, I think that could reassure them)

\- show me that you have a reputation online (twitter/stackoverflow/HN) if you
are an authority I will not be skeptical

\- dont be (too) cheap. cheap = low quality

That's my PoV, and again it's things you could do not must do. You shouldnt
need to prove anything more than a US remote worker (in a perfect world).

~~~
petervandijck
These are awesome recommendations. Get recommendations from anyone you've
worked with, on LinkedIn.

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throwaway007
People hate this word, but I will say it anyway, you need to have a brand of
your own. Create a presence online (via Linkedin, Github, your own blog etc)
with a distinct identity that projects your capabilities. Absent this, people
will do the easy thing, which is, generalizing and stereotyping you as just
another developer from India or whatever country you come from.

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solost
I have a much different suggestion that most. Connect with a local group that
is already doing work for a start up or major company. Building relationships
is far more valuable in my mind then anything else you can do. While having a
killer portfolio is good, just like resumes often times porfolios are not as
authentic as one would have you believe. Quality relationships that can give
you referrals or references are by far the most valuable thing you can
develop.

I worked for a large company here in the states that outsourced all of their
development to India, we had about 100 full time developers on staff. That
team no longer exists however whenever I need to outsource I go to the
relationships I established from that team to either contract directly with
them or get recommendations from them.

It might not be what you want in the short term, however it is a great way to
make connections and reduce the barrier to entry for you.

In my mind the barrier to entry for most startups is time and to a certain
extent money. I know I cannot afford to take flyers on developers who I don't
have confidence will deliver for me on time and on budget and what is worse if
someone fails to deliver not only am I late but I am also out anything I may
have paid for the work.

I hope this advice assists you in some way.

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CyberFonic
Your problem is not unique to Indian software contractors.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of profiteering opportunists who will cut and
paste code from programming sites and pass it of as their work. Some of the
work I've seen wasn't even worth the low rate paid for it. So your key
strategy is to rise above that swamp. Bidding for work on some outsourcing
site is probably always going to be an uphill battle.

I think that you need to specialize, in an area that really interests you.
You'd research the forums in that area and contribute to them. Find open
source projects in your area. I would even go as far as to suggest doing a
masters degree part-time in that same field. After a while, you start noticing
the same people and companies popping up in multiple places. You build
contacts with them. You build up a profile of the sorts of companies that do
stuff in your area and then you actively seek out others like them.

Yes, as many others have said, you are a brand and that requires persistent
marketing and selling activities. When you work for a company, then others
fulfill that role. But it still needs to be done in order to succeed.

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RiderOfGiraffes
My opinions are known on occasion to be wrong, but ...

You've been given several items of good advice here, none of which is easy,
all of which are (as far as I can see) right.

You need to create a "presence" on the web. You need a portfolio of work,
writing and comments. You haven't submitted to HN often, but many, many of
your submissions have got excellent upvotes. Your comments score less well,
showing that you're not adding as much value through them, but that's not
surprising.

Work on writing well.

But more importantly, contribute to projects.

Become known.

Then you're not simply a programmer from a country that supplies cheap
programming. You're an individual, and you can take on specific tasks, not as
an out-sourcer, but as a remote-working contractor.

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eengstrom
SingAlong,

I have been working with remote workers from India for 20 years. I have not
had a single experience compelling me to do so again, since 2000. The choice
over the last decade hasn't been mine, but often the result of having to help
US corporations solve performance and scalability issues, in conjunction with
their on/off shore partners.

I could complain about how various companies from India and how US companies
utilizing them have caused terrible harm (both to me and others directly) by a
mix of negligent and non-professional behavior, but it has happened to a
degree where the feelings have become generalized and deeply and sometimes
even actively belligerent towards individuals.

You've received some excellent advice from bjonathan, but I'd also like to
encourage you to provide a personalized blog. Include pictures or video about
yourself.

Assume that half the resistance to working with you is going to be the dreaded
"language barrier". If you can't provide directly transparent and creditable
links to your work and references on LinkedIn, I suspect you'll have a very
hard time obtaining meaningful work as an individual.

Keep in mind, however, that you're just out of school. You're going to need to
do the same thing any other engineer will anywhere else in the world. Mature,
gain work experience, demonstrate value, etc.

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Swannie
Off topic:

I've always thought that the top talent in India either:

a) left to a G8 type country

or

b) worked at an Indian start-up, that will in times to come, be better placed
to understand hyper-scaling than those working soley in the US market.

So why not b? :-P

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Travis
As a person who has twice tried to hire remote/foreign workers, it boils down
to this (for me): when I'm looking at markets, how do I differentiate you from
the rest?

I've had 2 mediocre/bad experiences, trying to piece out some component work
for my startup. Both didn't go well. I thought I had picked the best of the
available applications, but in the end, I was unable to distinguish them from
each other, so I semi-randomly selected.

If you can figure out how to differentiate (both yourself, as well as a more
general solution), I believe you will have solved a major problem in the
industry.

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nailer
Stereotyping the indian workers (from India. not the ones from overseas who
have _very_ different attitudes):

Love what you do. Enough that you have a portfolio of cool OSS shit I can
check out. Enough that you read HN or your favorite Node/Django/Rails sites in
your spare time.

