
I have resigned as the WordPress accessibility team lead - robin_reala
https://rianrietveld.com/2018/10/09/i-have-resigned-the-wordpress-accessibility-team/
======
bryanrasmussen
I think the consensus on making accessible React sites is via using Live
regions [https://developer.mozilla.org/en-
US/docs/Web/Accessibility/A...](https://developer.mozilla.org/en-
US/docs/Web/Accessibility/ARIA/ARIA_Live_Regions)

~~~
kroosaidher
Fixed it for you:

"I'm super ignorant about accessibility, but I heard this one time. Here,
accessibility experts, I googled this link for you. Should be easy to
implement."

~~~
bryanrasmussen
I'm sure they're more expert at accessibility than I am, but the article
complained that they were not very expert at React. I'm not that great at
React either but I get by.

At any rate I'm sure that nothing I have ever worked on is as accessible as
anything you have ever worked on just because what are the odds that I could
have been part of anything worthwhile and what are the odds you are not just
an amazing genius dropping by to let me know it? Pretty slim I bet.

in fact, you seem somewhat rude - are we acquaintances in some way?

~~~
absitively
Yeah, welcome to freaking HN? FYI, "Live Regions" is an ARIA feature and has
nothing whatsoever to do with React specifically. ARIA, also commonly known as
WAI ARIA. Which stands for Web Accessibility Initiative - Accessible Rich
Internet Applications. It's a W3C suite of standards literally all about
accessibility. That's probably what made it so mind-boggling that you'd think
it's news to an accessibility expert.

~~~
bryanrasmussen
I'm guessing yours is some sort of sockpuppet account otherwise welcoming me
would seem sort of beside the point; given my relative length on the site
compared to yours, evidently.

That said considering I was just lectured on civility for much less rudeness
(I of course think I was not rude at all) in a politically charged thread
where rudeness is sometimes expected I believe your opinion of the site is at
odds with what is at least hoped for and my surprise at the tone given the
circumstances was warranted.

However where rudeness is concerned I believe I can give better than I get if
need be, and you're also quite rude so here are some points:

1\. When I post a link to an MDN resource it is not because I think MDN is the
standard place to get React specific information. That should be obvious to
anyone on this site who claims technical expertise in Web matters, and you
should have stopped with the patronizing let me tell you about ARIA spiel.

2\. I believe a reading through my posting history on HN will show that I at
least have enough familiarity with accessibility that you don't need go give
me the Aria intro. Even if linking to a part of it on MDN wasn't a clue
enough. (I could have linked to W3C but as introductory pieces they are much
less successful than MDN content in my opinion)

3\. The article was mainly about problems with doing accessibility in React,
which I agree is problematic (for big SPAs at any rate) and live regions while
helpful is in many ways more difficult to do right where accessibility is
concerned than a normal HTML5/JavaScript application. Many people interested
in React might read that article and say damn you can't do accessibility in
React, because those accessibility experts couldn't do it. I made an offhand
comment on a technology I have some experience with in React, and pointed to a
resource on the technology trusting that anyone interested would either
research matters further or at worst ask me for clarification ( which I would
hate because the reason for writing a small offhand comment and providing a
simple introductory link to a technology is because I don't have time for much
more)

~~~
kroosaidher
Dude, I don't know you and this is not personal. Breathe and remember there's
always someone wrong on the internet. Far as I've ever been able to tell, HN
is full of rudeness. It's why I don't have activity. Bigger bunch of circle
jerking, back patting, myopic pedants I've rarely seen. YMMV. And I just so
happen to have different accounts logged in on different devices 'cause I lost
the password to my more favorite username and had to create another. _shrug_
There's not a sneaky agenda.

I really, with all goodwill this time, recommend you spend your limited time
and energy on more important matters than my misdirected flames. You spent it
less than fruitfully in a tailspin over this, seemingly, and I'm sorry for
that; I've been there. I should probably remember those hours when I post, but
I am a deeply flawed and bitter person.

~~~
bryanrasmussen
well I'm probably going through a flawed and bitter period myself so I
understand, sorry if I got upset but lack of sleep and a lot of stress sent me
over the edge.

I didn't think you had a sneaky agenda necessarily, I just thought that
account must not be your normal account if you're welcoming me. :)

------
ricardobeat
This is a bit puzzling for me:

1\. A React app is still DOM-based. Normal accessibility practices still
apply, as they do for any other SPAs

2\. It takes maybe a week to learn enough of JSX and React to get started on
accessibility tasks

This sounds like refusing to work on a new codebase without actually being
invested into it. Also got a combative feeling from reading a few PRs, where
simple style issues are discussed at length vs just fixed with one variable
change. Am I reading it wrong?

All the best luck for Matthew.

~~~
ilaksh
It takes more than a week if you're not already a JavaScript software
engineer.

~~~
ricardobeat
You can’t do proper accessibility work today without JS, regardless of React.
Either for dynamic content, or features like a focus trap that browsers don’t
offer natively.

------
Ayesh
I don't work in Gutenberg nor in a11y, but I know that WordPress is hugely
focused on Gutenberg (which I mentioned in
[https://ayesh.me/talk/No](https://ayesh.me/talk/No), my shameless self-plug).

With Gutenberg almost at the edge of releasing, the a11y team lead resigning
will only make things worse. Lack of understanding in accessibility is a huge
problem in many software projects, and documentation alone wouldn't help it.

During the Gutenberg time, accessibility, secure updates, modern PHP, and a
few other initiatives started with little to no progress in them. There is no
way Gutenberg is almost released if all these initiatives were to go parallel,
at least not without enough resources.

------
cronz
Isn't Gutenberg optional? Can't you have a checkbox that says "I'm disabled, I
can't use Gutenberg, give me the old editor"

~~~
pavel_lishin
But that's kind of a bad approach for developing software. "Sorry, handicapped
person, you don't get the new hotness. But it's ok, you can continue using
this old software that we super-duper promise to continue supporting."

~~~
rciorba
Also, that would mean maintain both editors going forward. Two UI-s means
double the chance for regressions.

~~~
kroosaidher
And guess which one is the priority for bug fixes? Hint: it's not the old,
unexciting one.

