

Ask HN: Do web app yourself – is it relevant? - thelogicalbox

Hello,<p>I want to share with you a project dear to my heart : Give a way to non-professional programmer to create simple web application.<p>The idea of this project is to define data and program logics in a single file (JSON format). This file is converted to a web application that can be be run to any computer. It is not mandatory to install anything to create a program, nor to pay a hosting solution. Everything is done on a web site.<p>The &#x27;pro&#x27; languages do very cool things but it takes time to learn. The language that is proposed with this project frees you from constraints of classic programming (asynchronous flow, data binding, ...) and focuses on the essential : to display, manage and calculate data. As a result, do not expect to create the new killer app with this project ;)<p>A video is available on YouTube to show basic features : https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=FiccHCoJOlY<p>A demo of the language with some examples can be found on the web site : http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.thelogicalbox.com<p>The service itself is currently in beta development stage but you can ask for an access code if you wish.<p>I hope this project can provide valuable support to people who need a small program but they lack the time, money or skills to do it.<p>It would be useful for me to have feedback, especially if:<p>1. The idea of a language for non-professional programmer is relevant.<p>2. The language seems simple and easy to understand.<p>3. You have ideas for improvement<p>4. You need a program (I can help you if it sounds possible with this project)<p>Do not hesitate to criticize, that helps !<p>Thank you for your attention,<p>Sébastien
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abss
I have some experience in this area, I'm the main author of 3 programming
frameworks targeting this (two created for two failed startups ). Now, I got
great results like doing 4 products in an year ( with hundreds of concepts,
database tables, complex processes) with only 2 programmers. An visible speed
improvement but still was not the case that non programmers could program
easily. Because of financial constraints we abandoned the creation of the GUI
for creating apps and used the framework (targeting Flex/Flash ). Now, I
outsourced an MVVM framework for JS
([https://github.com/salboaie/SwarmShape](https://github.com/salboaie/SwarmShape))
that is created with an architecture that serve the purpose of having visual
UI to speed up the development. There is no GUI and tools but the framework is
constructed to make tooling possible. I see such UI behave like better
spreadsheets usable for creation of simple apps (using reusable components and
simple scripting) by intelligent people having only a few days of training. It
is feasible, only the business aspects should be clarified. If you want an
discussion on this topics, feel free to contact me. salboaie@gmail.com

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TophWells
>Give a way to non-professional programmer to create simple web application.

Sounds like a good idea. Wait...

>(JSON format)

What is this JSON of which you speak? It sounds like programming to me! I
won't have any of it!

I don't see why or how you want to get non-programmers interested in your
programming environment. Rails already has a way to create simple web apps in
a few minutes, but I don't know any non-programmers who use it. What's
different about this, apart from the fact that you _can_ write killer web apps
starting from the code that "rails generate" produces?

~~~
thelogicalbox
Thank you for your feedback.

JSON defines data. Human can write and read JSON files.

Add logic to the data seems to me easier for non-programmer to define what a
program should do.

A basic JSON file for describing a circle could be: { "radius": 5, "diameter"
: 25 }

With the following program, we can modify the radius and see the diameter
value: { "radius": "att(5)", "diameter" : "radius * radius" }

It is closed to the original file.

The difference with solutions like Rails is that people do not need to know
how to deploy an application.

In this project, people write in a JSON file and the application is
automatically ready to serve the data.

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krapp
There are already services which try to cater to "non-programmers", but they
generally try to deploy a web version of a WYSIWYG editor.

I personally do like the idea, but I wonder if, in practice, it would end up
being complex enough that it might as well be programming for the layman. Your
listed examples already appear to incorporate string concatenation, arrays and
booleans. You might have a difficult sell to non-technical people who are also
looking at, say, Wix.

~~~
thelogicalbox
Hi Krapp,

You're right. WYSIWYG editor is easier to use than writing code but the aim is
to make program running on the internet, not creating web page.

You're also right that my examples are using concepts than non-technical
people could be afraid of.

What I'm thinking right now is that I should have created an interface to
produce the code like scratch :
[http://scratch.mit.edu/](http://scratch.mit.edu/)

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bliker
I see JSON more as a hindrance than an advantage. Putting a function
invocation in string in some other data format seems rather strange to me. It
almost seems like you have created something like Lisp.

How about instead of trying to use some home-brewed pseudo language you try to
extent something like coffescript?

~~~
thelogicalbox
Hi Bliker,

Yes, it is a bit strange for programmer but maybe not for non-programmer: I
wanted to be closed as possible to the data that people want to manipulate.

Extending existing language is for sure the easiest path but that means I will
create something for programmer. That is not the idea.

------
it_learnses
why not just create a web lisp-interpreter?

~~~
thelogicalbox
Do you think people will use it ? For instance, polish notation is difficult
to understand.

