

Ask HN: Should I fix something that is still profitable? - superasn

Hi HN,<p>Me and a college friend started our company in 2006. Since then we've launched a couple of websites and few have them have gained good traction (we’re making about $500k in total profit every year which we split 50/50).<p>Now while we’re both co-founders on all our sites, yet ever since the beginning I’ve been doing 95% of the work from idea, marketing, SEO, PR, design, affiliates, etc (you name it). Basically, I never thought of it as work, for me I’ve always loved learning, and doing this stuff. Since I started the business first, initially when he joined me, he looked to me to teach him the ropes. Thing is, after all these years, he still does. Maybe it’s lack of confidence or motivation or complacence, but he rarely ever has shown any input or initiative to help our business (nothing till date except stuff I’ve told him to do).<p>Yet he still is my best friend and a really great guy and he stuck with me for the first two years when we did not make anything. He got campus placed but turned down the job offer and joined me for free to work together on projects.<p>Anyway, I’ve talked to him about a dozen of times and while he agrees he needs to step-up his game, it generally fizzles out in a month because he just can’t work without someone else telling him what to do and we’re always back to square one.<p>To cut a long story short, at the end of the day we’re just two guys behind this whole business. It is good to have him around because I’ve tried working alone before and it is terribly boring and unproductive. So even though he doesn't do much for business I still like to have another person, let alone my best friend, hang out with me all day. And all things considered we’re profitable. On the other hand, it feels rather unfair that for the last 5 years I’ve been doing most of the work, splitting profits in the middle and carrying around a dead weight which is causing me to burn-out.<p>What do I do HN? Should I fire my best friend, at least for all the new sites I create? We have an awesome relationship (we’re practically like brothers) but I feel that if do this, it may ruin our friendship.<p>Sorry, if this is too much drama but I don’t know who else to talk to and I’m going crazy thinking this over and over and not arriving at any good solution. So, decided to share it here, in case anyone cares to comment.
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pawn
I think it would be a good idea to figure out exactly which part bothers you
the most.

Do you think you should get more money?

Are you feeling like you have too much work to do and wish you could relax
more?

Is it more about being jealous that your friend isn't working as much?

Those are three separate motivations with different answers.

Personally, I think I'd be pretty darned satisfied with the situation that
you're in. But we live in different worlds and that's besides the point.

$250k seems like a lot of money to me. I make less than half of that and it's
not my own projects working with my best friend. Realistically, I don't
imagine you're going to feel the difference of the extra money you'd make from
future projects between if you kept the money yourself and if you split it.

If you're feeling too busy, I would guess that giving him direction probably
takes less energy than doing the work yourself. So you have to keep telling
him what to do. Make it part of your routine and you'll be fine. If it's the
same stuff every month, set up a script to automatically email him once a
month.

If you're just jealous that he isn't working without being told what to do,
you're going to have to decide whether that's a deal-breaker for your
friendship. Some people don't innately have a built-in drive to do things on
their own. He may grow out of that trait with time, but until then you can
either put up with it or don't. For a best friend, I'd put up with it.

So, I'd say figure out which part is the root of your dissatisfaction and see
if you can come to terms with that one thing.

~~~
superasn
Initially I was a little afraid to share my problem like this here, but now
I'm so glad I did. Your replies have really made it easier for me to think
this through because just talking about it to someone has helped me a lot.

> Some people don't innately have a built-in drive to do things on their own.
> > He may grow out of that trait with time, but until then you can either put
> up with it or don't. > For a best friend, I'd put up with it.

This statement really resonated with me a lot. I don't think I'm going to do
anything right now and just hope that he does something measurable for our
business by the deadline I gave him. I do see him trying harder this time too.

He himself has admitted that he doesn't have that built-in drive to do things
on his own, but maybe like you said, he will grow out of it one day,
especially if when I just leave him be for sometime.

Your reply was very insightful and I may have some more thinking to do after
all. Thanks.

~~~
pawn
You're welcome. I'm glad I helped! I wish you the best of luck and hope you
can find peace with whatever the outcome turns out to be.

------
pedoh
Have you brought this concern up to him? I realize this is not an easy
conversation to have, but given what you claim about your relationship ("we're
practically like brothers"), you should be able to discuss it, weather the
storm, and come out stronger in the end. If you can't, then your relationship
with him isn't what you thought it was.

Explain to him how you feel. Don't accuse him; you're not trying to hurt him
or screw him over. You're trying to work out what is right and fair.

Also, figure out for yourself what _you_ think is right and fair. What struck
me is this:

"I’ve tried working alone before and it is terribly boring and unproductive.
So even though he doesn't do much for business I still like to have another
person, let alone my best friend, hang out with me all day."

Based on that, you may realize that him getting 50% (at least in the past) has
been perfectly justified; if it weren't for him, what would you have done?

However, the past doesn't have to dictate the future. Maybe you're at a point
where having a co-founder who can actually do 50% of the "work" (beyond moral
support that your current friend is doing) is important to you or to your
business. Be honest about this with him, explain your struggles, desires, and
motivations, and I'm confident you'll both be in a better place at the end.

~~~
superasn
Hi,

First of all thank you so much for your kind thoughtful response. I appreciate
you taking the time to read about problem and offering helpful advice.

> Have you brought this concern up to him?

Yes, I have. I did tell him that if he doesn't add something measurable to our
business by 8th Feb 2012 (this is four months from when I talked to him about
this) I will have to go solo or find other people to work with. He didn't get
upset, rather after this I did see him trying harder. Unfortunately, there
have been no measurable results so far. Sometimes, I think it is because he
lacks confidence to pull the trigger (like he is currently working on the API
for our site, but will he ever complete it, announce it to our list or recruit
companies to make this profitable? I don't think so at least until I step in
and do it for him - judging from past). And I just don't know anymore if any
amount of carrot or stick can fix this.

>Based on that, you may realize that him getting 50% (at >least in the past)
has been perfectly justified; if it > weren't for him, what would you have
done?

Yes, the fact is he's probably getting 50% of the cut not because he is
earning it, but rather because I need someone to work with. Currently his
presence in our business is more of moral support than actual business
development. But you are right, it is probable, that had he not been working
with me I may just have quit out of frustration and boredom (specifically
during the first two years of our business when we didn't make any money). So
I don’t regret giving him the 50% partnership. My struggle lies in the fact
that we could have done so much more had he actually had a little interest or
passion for furthering our business. And my dilemma lies in the fact that at
the end of the day what if I wreck an invaluable friendship trying to make a
few extra dollars.

>Be honest about this with him, explain your struggles, desires, and
>motivations, and I'm confident you'll both be in a better place at the end.

Yes, thankfully we're able to communicate freely with each other. I just hope
if the time comes and I have to do what I have to do, he understands it's just
a business decision and nothing personal against him.

------
mapster
The money sounds great for two guys out of school. So why not be pro-active
and enroll both of you, a team, in some business courses or motivation
coaching, say as a gift. You are a very good friend to him, so keep working
with him. You could also get him a virtual assistant to keep him on-task.

------
mbijon
How do you think he would react if you hired an operations manager or
director, who was responsible for tasking him with work?

This would free your time up to grow profits, help keep him productive, and
also protect the friendship by having someone else evaluate him.

~~~
superasn
> How do you think he would react if you hired an operations manager or
> director, who was responsible for tasking him with work?

Actually your suggestion is good and he may react positively to that because I
think he is happier when is he exactly told what to do and someone makes sure
he finishes what he starts (which has been my work exactly).

But the thing about that is right now we're just two people working in an
office that we've designed more as a recreation center. All our site stuff is
fully outsourced and working great, so I don't know if I can find an
operations manager just to babysit him.

But maybe if I can find or invent an operations manager that can work via
telecommuting (why not?) just to check his progress then this suggestion maybe
the best thing to happen to our business.

------
hyuuu
I might be hijacking this thread but if things dont work out with him, perhaps
we can chat? I would love to get guidance or maybe to be bold, work together,
im not sure if you are local, im in and around san jose, ca contact me if you
are interested: wahyu@mumuja.com

------
olegious
I can't provide any advice other than what's already been given- it sounds to
me like you know what you must do, he's not pulling his weight and is
basically freeloading. Maybe keep him on as a salaried employee?

Out of curiosity, what type of sites are these?

~~~
superasn
If it comes to it, I'd rather just let him keep his 50% share as we've already
agreed upon (for as long as the sites make money) and just go solo on the new
sites. So while I know what I need to do, having my best friend at stake and
his trust and loyalty in our business from start (even when it wasn't even
making money) is what has made matters so complicated for me.

> Out of curiosity, what type of sites are these?

These are three B2B sites mainly targeting small website owners and designers.

