
Xbox One: Microsoft's All-In-One Home Entertainment System - irunbackwards
http://techcrunch.com/2013/05/21/heres-your-new-xbox-one-microsofts-all-in-one-home-entertainment-system/
======
parm289
Most of the comments here focus on Microsoft, Sony, and gamers; I'd like to
(indirectly) bring the traditional cable co into the discussion.

Last semester several Comcast reps gave my class a presentation which included
a summary of their media strategy, a demo of their new cable TV platform/cable
box, and a Q&A section. Their new cable box (a small, black, ATV-like 'dumb'
set-top box) is progressive: it has a modern UI, connects to the Xfinity cloud
platform, and can be updated through software rather than hardware changes.

However, one student asked their VP of Media Acquisition a simple question:
"Who is your biggest competitor?" His answer shocked us.

"Microsoft."

At the time (~March), he told us Comcast expected Microsoft to stage a coup to
claim "input A," the consumer's primary content interface. Traditionally,
consumers would have their cable boxes plugged into input A and their gaming
consoles plugged into input B. Microsoft, he said, would attempt to take over
input A by including a cable jack in the back of the Xbox and offering live TV
alongside streaming/web browsing/apps/games.

Looks like he was spot on.

~~~
garindra
Yeah. As soon as I saw CBS (which weirdly, was first presented in the context
of the voice-activated command feature), I knew it had a pretty good chance of
taking over the "input A".

------
geuis
I'd like to be impressed, but it's really hard. I have friends that work at
Microsoft and have worked on various bits of this platform. I know personally
the incredible amount of hard work that gets put into this product.

This presentation just feels... empty.

It's largely middle-aged men (and a woman who worked at tv companies) dryly
reciting a badly written script with significant intentional pauses intended
for applause after non-funny jokes.

The opening demo was kind of interesting. It's hard to tell if the tv/kinnect
interactivity was staged or not, but it seems real enough to be impressive.
More of this please.

Followed by a guy that no one knows or cares about, speaking at length the
hardware, about how revolutionary the new product is. He doesn't actully say
anything much about how the new system is built beyond "5 billion transistors
and 8gb of RAM!", while briefly flashing some tech specs floating next to an
amorphous blob of 3d Xbox parts.

Then we get to see a non-MS exec from EA introduce a 2 minute interview with
some sports guys....

SHOW THE DAMNED GAME!!

Look, when you're showing off your product SHOW IT OFF. Don't put your fatty
bag of mostly water in between the product and the people trying to learn
about it.

Then the stream died for me after the CBS/Time Warner lady started talking. I
caught the end where guy #1 is talking about Stephen Spielberg and Halo, the
it died again.

For the HN audience, there's a ton of lessons to take from today. Talk about
the product, don't get in the way, and make sure your tech supporting the
launch works and is stable. Everything else will take care of itself.

~~~
loganfrederick
Microsoft said ahead of time that all software-related discussion would be
saved for E3. This was a features and hardware-only event.

[http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/20/4347614/microsoft-
reveals-i...](http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/20/4347614/microsoft-reveals-its-
two-part-console-reveal-for-the-next-xbox)

~~~
geuis
They should have said that at the beginning of the presentation, not announced
before the event and/or somewhere else.

That being said, there was almost _no_ hardware talk today. I _know_ there's
some good hardware and engineering in that black slanty box. That's all I've
heard hinted about for months, about how impressed we'd be with the hardware,
etc. Next to nothing was said about it.

~~~
warfangle
But it has eight gee-bees!

------
simonsarris
Most people I know who own a PS3 consider it essentially a blu-ray player.

Most people I know who own an Xbox consider it essentially a Netflix player.

These people bought games, but they don't really play them.

I've got naught but my anecdata, but I think attempting to bill this new
console as an entertainment system that _happens_ to also play some great
games is a very, very good idea.

~~~
Irregardless
Why? They just alienated gamers while showing non-gamers that they've been
overpaying for a glorified Netflix machine.

I've been a diehard Xbox fan since I first got my hands on the original, but
this makes me want to switch back to Playstation.

~~~
path411
What more do you want them to tell you as a gamer about the new system? They
released specs and talked about the cloud gaming capabilities. Having more 3rd
party game makers demo games for the system doesn't really improve my appeal
to the console.

I already knew the new xbox would be the next gaming console. It seems like
they went for the non-obvious, and wanted to talk about the other features.
The games are going to be the draw for gamers, and I'm sure those will be just
fine.

~~~
simba-hiiipower
agreed. people make it sound like they removed some essential features, just
because they didn't emphasize them enough (or because they emphasized others
more).

from what i've seen this appears to match the ps4 in every way - even down to
the architecture. the only difference is they glossed-over all that and
decided to focus on the ways its differentiated..

~~~
jonny_eh
They removed the ability to buy, sell, and lend games. You have to pay an
undisclosed fee to "install" a game that has already been installed, which is
mandatory.

~~~
simba-hiiipower
the rumor you're basing that on doesn't appear to be entirely accurate [1].
either way, i don't think its fair to draw judgment one way or another until
they actually explain how that will be handled..

also, this issue is nothing new and is certainty not unique to microsoft or
the xbox. i think its fairly well understood that there's going to be a change
in this area as the way content is distributed continues to evolve..

whatever the actual implementation is, i'm pretty sure it wont be as bad as
you're implying (... _removed the ability to buy, sell, and lend games_ ) and
will probably be standard across the industry - and structured in a manner as
not to totally decimate the second-hand market..

[1] <http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/21/4348916/xbox-used-games>

------
georgemcbay
As someone actually interested in playing games (and I know that may make me a
minority here), this was the best commercial there will likely ever be for the
Sony PlayStation 4.

~~~
cgh
Yes, before I saw your comment, I was going to post something similar. I am
also one of those weirdos who just wants a really powerful and reliable gaming
console. No muss, no fuss, no "social", no voice-activated doo-dads, just
really good games and not much else.

~~~
ghostDancer
I'm afraid that even in the console world the gamers are now becoming a
minority, Nintendo opened the way and now the others follow, the "hardcore" ,
whatever that means, gamers are a minority, you need them for the launch and
some games but they are really an small proportion of the possible customers.

------
Tiktaalik
Will the Xbox continue to be the "America-box?" A huge amount of this
conference focused on services that are irrelevant to those outside the US
(even irrelevant to Canadians). This all looks great if you have a stellar
cable package and live in the USA where you get ESPN, but what about everyone
else?

~~~
estel
Indeed: [http://www.vg247.com/2013/05/21/xbox-one-live-tv-
available-i...](http://www.vg247.com/2013/05/21/xbox-one-live-tv-available-in-
us-only-at-launch-requires-separate-device/)

------
namityadav
Is the underlying OS Windows 8? I think Microsoft can give its Windows 8 apps
platform a big boost by giving them presence in the next Xbox.

EDIT: Looks like they use Windows 8, but the Windows 8 apps will need to be
modified to work on Xbox. From Engadget:

 _In terms of whether apps will be cross-compatible between the regular
Windows Store and the storefront accessed by the new console, we're told they
won't. Developers will have to do a bit of work to make a Windows app suitable
for the Xbox, not least in terms of tuning their UI for Kinect or the wireless
controller. But Microsoft's engineers told us that the underlying similarity
between Windows 8/RT and Windows for the Xbox should make this a pretty easy
feat for coders. [ Ref:[http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/21/xbox-one-runs-
three-opera...](http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/21/xbox-one-runs-three-
operating-systems/) ]_

~~~
minimaxir
The underlying OS is three different OSes, apparently. One of those is likely
based on Win8 (Metro Snap and Metro IE was present).

------
6ren

      > 1080p camera... 60 FPS. Field of view increased by 60%....
      > motion tracking... detect skin pigmentation changes related to heart rate
    

_In soviet russia, home entertainment system watches YOU!_

Seriously, imagine being able to measure consumers' emotional reaction to your
advertisements... if you were worried about information being gathered about
you, with google adwords targeting you by search, or facebook data-mining your
social network, you ain't seen _nothing_ yet.

------
itafroma
It is definitely telling that it took them 30 minutes into a 60 minute
presentation to talk about games, then another 10 to talk about a non-sports
game. Yes, they're saying they're going to talk more about games at E3, but a
reveal is a "put your best foot forward" type of event, and Microsoft seems to
be going for a "games are an afterthought" type of approach.

Compared to the PS4's continuation of Sony's "games first" philosophy and
Nintendo's "we're sorry core gamers!" philosophy with the Wii U (that's not
working out so hot right now, given how lukewarm core game developers are to
it), it may be a risk that pans out for Microsoft, but it's a bit unfortunate:
gaming—and not just sports gaming—has made gains into mainstream culture over
the past decade, and it doesn't seem like it really needed to be brushed aside
in order to "win" this generation's console war.

------
marcamillion
For me...the first xbox really rocked my world. I dropped in a mod-chip, used
XBMC and my eyes for a home-entertainment system that can read digital files
were finally opened.

I haven't used an optical disc for a movie since.

I used the original XboX, then transitioned to 360, then to PS3 - now my PS3
does what all of my previous xboxes did.

But....the truth is, with the 360, I was so blown away by how easy it was to
connect to all my MSFT networked devices that I would gladly give this new
xbox a chance to rock my world again.

MSFT has really gotten XboX right. Every. Single. Time.

I hope they don't try to lock down this one - where you can't play 'pirated
content' and they have some hardware DRM or some bullshit like that.

That's the only reason I will wait until others try it out.

If it doesn't allow me to watch the content I want to watch - then I won't get
it.

If I can......I just may.

Then again...my current PS3 is already pretty awesome so I may not need to.

------
hospadam
I was most interested by their Live TV offering. But does anyone have any
details on how they get the TV stream? One of the slides mentioned HDMI In/Out
- does that mean it's going the GoogleTV route? I have a logitech revue - and
I absolutely hate it.

~~~
vyrotek
Most likely it will have to work with an external subscription. The guy on
stage mentioned that he uses Comcast and then did the demo. So I imagine it
will work like Google TV and just be a glorified channel changer without any
content of its own.

I too have the Logitech Revue and it eventually just became a netflix box for
my kids. We just switched back to having a dedicated laptop for our TV and
never looked back.

------
reidmain
Neither Sony or Microsoft have told me why I need to buy one of their next-gen
consoles.

I own a PS3, Xbox 360 and a gaming PC. The 360 came first and combined with
Xbox Live it became my default gaming device. Probably 60% of my games are for
my Xbox 360. After a few years with my 360 I bought a PS3 because there were
some exclusive games I wanted to play. In 2010 Battlefield 3 came out and I
built a gaming PC for it because in my opinion the Battlefield series excels
when played with a keyboard, mouse and servers that can accommodate large
scale battles.

A strange side affect of building that gaming PC was that I started buying
games for my PC instead of my consoles because the games looked and played
better on my PC then my consoles.

This next console generation is going to be the most homogenous yet.
Developers will be able to make a game that works on PC, Xbox One and PS4 so
easily that brand loyalty will mean a lot less.

Unless Microsoft actually releases some TV features that actually work outside
of the United States I don't know if I'll be buying one of these new consoles.
I'll probably continue buying games for my PC until a platform exclusive game
(which are becoming increasingly rare) comes out.

~~~
__david__
I've built a gaming PC before. What I underestimated was how nice it was to
have my console in my living room. Having to get up and go into another room
to play games meant that games never got played. And then the PC started
getting flaky and then it was old and new games didn't look good any more.
This happened _very_ quickly.

My consoles always work (no red ring on my 306 yet, knock on wood) and the new
games always play great. I'm almost definitely getting one of the Microsoft or
Sony next-gen consoles. I would definitely consider a steambox as well, as I
love the idea of a living room game PC... Though I'm not sure how I'm supposed
to manage the wireless keyboard and mouse while sitting on my couch.

~~~
jiggy2011
Just plug an xbox gamepad into the PC, most newer games will let you use it
instead of keyboard/mouse (assuming it's a game that actually makes sense to
play on a gamepad).

------
sergiotapia
As a gamer living in Bolivia, 90% of the features peddled as REVOLUTIONARY
will weigh in at ZERO for me.

I'll be getting a PS4. I read that you can't even play used games on the XBox
One.

------
threeseed
Surprised no one is talking about Skype.

This is a killer app and a genius acquisition by Microsoft. Having so many
young, tech users using Skype is going to have a massive flow on effect to
other users in particular older ones.

------
Tactic
So now I can have a UI with ads overlaid on my TV ads? Fantastic!

------
maskedinvader
I think this is fantastic for folks like me who have to juggle between my htpc
(which has a cablecard so I can watch live tv on my media center) and my xbox
(which I use to play games). Ofcourse il still have my htpc connected and use
it frequently for other things (I am not sold on IE on xbox) but atleast it
will make switching between watching tv,netflix, hulu and my games very
simple. microsoft can take my money now, i want one of these things !

------
drone
In our house, we have a 1st-gen ATV, Roku HD (again, older gen), and an XBox
360. We've largely found them redundant in most senses, except for the
following:

Can't watch Xfinity on the Roku or ATV, can't watch Netflix or unfiltered
Youtube on ATV (can't get any VEVO content on the ATV), can't rent Amazon
movies (prime is OK on 360) on 360 or ATV, and can't serve music from multiple
computers to 360 or Roku.

We can flip that around and say that no one device gives us all of the
entertainment (and gaming options) that work best for us. I like to play a few
games here and there, so there should be some console. I haven't even bothered
to bring in the cable box (it actually only got plugged in long enough to
authorize us for XFinity) because I've run out of HDMI ports (there's a blue-
ray player in there too, because I'm sure as heck not going to pay Hulu for
their buggy service just so we can stream the Criterion Movies, when most are
on DVD/BD)...

I like the concepts that MSFT is showing off here. I haven't reviewed the
remote music service from MSFT in a while, but last time it lacked the
simplicity of the ATV, especially for multiple libraries. If they've got that
improved, the ATV is gone. (Having no other real value to us.) If they'd
remove the restriction from paying to rent videos on Amazon, the Roku would be
gone too. My partner uses all of these devices for her entertainment, and
would happily switch to just an Xbox 1 if it does the job well. I'd be happy
to have to maintain fewer devices (each with their own problems, let's not get
down that path!).

I'm not sure about the source of much of the angst here, but it does sound
just about exactly what our household has been looking for.

------
tenpoundhammer
I know the voice features have been available in the Xbox already, but I am
really excited about them in the new Xbox. I expect them to be light years
beyond on what they are now and key piece of the devices functionality. If it
works really well it could open a whole new way of interacting with computers.
It could also open the door to voice activated home automation, by training
the masses to use voice controlled devices.

------
ochoseis
With WiFi direct, I wonder if this'll finally bring Miracast/WiDi mainstream.
Maybe the ability to stream audio and video wirelessly is a niche feature, but
for me Airplay is the one thing keeping me on Apple's platform.

------
emehrkay
So this is a Windows-lite PC, cable box, Xbox video game system? It has hdmi
in right?

I'm officially old because I do not find this interesting at all. My son will
want it, so we will have it, but as a person who buys a lot of tech, I am not
seeing the appeal.

I think it is the all-in-one, do-everything approach it Microsoft is taking
with this that disinterests me. Why does every company want to be your
everything now a days?

~~~
potatolicious
Normally I'm against do-everything devices, but IMO this is a stroke of
genius.

Everything about operating a TV today is _pure pain_. The centerpiece here is
an obtuse, 100-button remote that no one fully knows how to use. You use this
remote to get at the "mode switcher", which changes you from TV watching mode,
to bluray watching mode, to gaming mode, to whatever else you do with your TV.

It's painful, not to mention a lot of people have receivers to handle the
audio portion of this. It's like a really, really bad KVM.

The only way to eliminate that pain was to take over all of the above
responsibilities, and MS just did that. With any luck this means you will
basically never have to touch your TV's god-awful remote ever again, and the
terms "Video 1", "Video 2", and "TV" will cease to have any meaning.

~~~
jellicle
You're still going have a layer of terrible user interface where you're
picking through all the kitchen-junk-drawer full of items that Microsoft has
packed into this device. It won't be labeled "Video 1, Aux 1", true, but
you'll still have to pick through every time you want to use the system.
Probably end up being more of an interface problem, actually.

Power on, wait, skip special offers from Microsoft, no I don't want to update
the console today, click to make anti-virus warnings go away, okay, now I can
pick whether I want to play games or watch TV, TV, live TV or internet,
internet, now pick the Netflix channel, and start watching! Hurray!

Yeah, that's so much better than picking "Video 2" and using the Netflix box.

~~~
potatolicious
Oh come on, no console - including the 360 - has ever been like that. There
has never been an anti-virus, much less one that prompts you at startup.
Console software updates are few and far between (twice a year on MS's
schedule), not to mention it looks like they're doing more and more in the
background.

Nor has Microsoft or Sony ever held up anything so you can watch a special
offer. This is just FUD.

Go watch the keynote, they cover all of this. They're betting on voice control
lowering the "depth" of the UI. Instead of "TV -> live TV -> Sy Fy -> Star
Trek" it's just "go watch Star Trek", ditto for on-demand, ditto for sports,
ditto for games even. Everything they showed today indicates single-action-to-
final-destination.

~~~
Bosence
I can't wait till families start having loud arguments about what show they
want to watch, each trying to be louder than the other, so it picks up their
voice. This was designed for families.

------
DonnyV
Why does it look like a VCR?

~~~
yoster
Box type consoles have always been iconic.

------
ehmuidifici
Xbox one is more a media center than a vg console itself.

Sadly we're witnessing the second vg crash. No more hardcore gamers, no more
preowned games...

It seems that if we want to have a REAL GAMING EXPERIENCE, (this includes fun,
creativity, good stories, simple controls) we will need to go back to the
past.

Fortunately, 'retrogaming scene' will gather more adepts. =)

~~~
jiggy2011
Eh, there are just more gamers now than there were before so there's _a lot_
of money to be made by targeting the huge mainstream audience.

If you want more interesting games there's no shortage of stuff from indie
developers or even AAA devs who are not EA and co. Including almost ridiculous
numbers of "new retro" games. That market hasn't shrunk (if anything it's
larger) it's just now a smaller proportional piece of an overall larger pie.

Plus if you wait for Steam sales you can get games so cheap (often 50%+ off)
that you don't really need preowned games.

------
psbp
I guess people still care about t.v.

~~~
danieldk
There's a world outside the US. E.g. in most of Europe there are virtually no
Netflix or Hulu-like services. Nearly everyone uses a Cable or DVB-T service.

A bit painful, considering that my ISP just announced to upgrade my connection
from 120/10 MBit/s to 150/15. The bandwidth is there, but I guess it's hard to
make licensing arrangements.

~~~
potatolicious
Even in the US, even in areas with good enough broadband to stream all your
content, people still care about broadcast television because of sports. MS's
focus here with ESPN and the NFL is bang-on.

~~~
moheeb
" _MS's focus here with ESPN and the NFL is bang-on._ "

I disagree. They managed to partner with the NFL but yet not show any games.
Most of the games for my favorite team I still can't watch. Seems really lame
to me.

------
nthitz
Shame so many anti MS people on HN that this gets flagged off the front page
so quick :/

------
adventured
This thing is seriously ugly. Makes me think of the first XBox.

------
gagege
You can have two things on the screen at once. Such innovation.

~~~
Karunamon
For a video game console? Yes. Yes it is. GameFAQ's up right next to the
actual game? Control panel where you can control your livestream?

------
gdsimoes
After seeing the presentations for the WiiU, the Playstation 4 and the Xbox
One I think we really another gaming company. Apple or perhaps even a startup.

~~~
squidsoup
Well, there's Valve who are supposedly developing their 'Steambox'. Hopefully
they'll reveal more about that soon given the Sony and MS announcements.

------
orangethirty
Wait until Microsoft unveils its first ever XBOX TV.

------
malkia
Years ahead, but still can't make a sandwitch!

------
AlexanderDhoore
So no XNA replacement?

~~~
runevault
This isn't the talk where I would expect any mention of developer stuff like
XNA. It wasn't even core gamer targeted, with such a heavy focus on
sports/Call of Duty. This was meant for a wider audience. E3 is the earliest I
would expect them to publicly talk about the developer tools.

~~~
AlexanderDhoore
Thx for the friendly response!

------
FreeBird
The other discussion is here.

<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5744967>

It was up at #3 then went to the second page,strange.

------
jonas_maj
Was a brilliant presentation IMO. Maybe Sony's extremely disappointing PS4
event set the bar too low, but anyway this Xbox One announcement gave me
goosebumps. The possibilities are endless. Let's see what they have saved for
E3.

------
yoster
The thing about Xbox 360 not having Blu-ray just made streaming/renting/buying
a lot better. Why go to a store when you can just turn the Xbox on and do the
same thing. I do want to say that it is a great option for the people who buy
Blu-ray discs, but I like the convenience of not being attached to huge,
physical disc libraries.

