
Portugal's growing number of young entrepreneurs - palmeida
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-29027462
======
yeureka
It could be much better if the tax system was sane.

Let's say you want to do some freelance work for someone. In Portugal you have
to register your service ("abrir actividade") and use an oficial invoice
booklet provided by the government ("recibos verdes") to invoice your
customers. You need to pay a substantial amount of social security and income
tax ( a designer friend was making around €1000 a month and paying almost €500
per month in taxes ), and if you stop trading and forget to tell the
government, even if you have zero income you need to pay the minimum social
security ( around €60 per month ) just to be registered as a service provider.

Basically, you are taxed pre-emptively wether you make any money or not. This
stops a lot people from even trying to sell their services as freelancers, let
alone start a company ( can't imagine the tax labyrinth that must be ).
Sometimes I want to hire a friend for a small gig and they refuse because they
can't afford the social security bill incurred in being a registered service
provider.

This is killing the formal economy, stifling entrepreneurship, and it's also
driving more and more people to informal contracts with cash transactions that
deprive the state of needed income. I won't even talk about the crazy income
tax band system we have...

~~~
collyw
This sounds similar to Spain. I would like try out a few (small scale)
business ideas, but the taxation system means that I will have to be fairly
sure of a profit before I can start working, otherwise it could be a lot of
wasted money just to see if things work or not.

------
ableal
(Just a short note on an irksome phrase in that piece:)

 _" This is because in Portugal owning your own house or apartment has always
been such a matter of pride that it is the first choice of most people, even
young adults."_

That's if "always" means "as far as I can remember", written by a fairly young
writer. Fifty years ago renting was the most common mechanism in Portuguese
cities, until rent-control (first instituted before 1970's inflation) nearly
killed it, and state-subsidized bank mortgages became the norm.
Unsurprisingly, forty years of that contributed to the economy crash.

------
jacquesm
In times of economic downturn there is always an uptick in newly minted
entrepreneurs. Some of them will make it, most of them will not and will be
re-employed in at most a few years. Think of them as the unemployed that
refuse to give up, and that alone makes them worth watching, they're fighters,
but that doesn't change the stats too much in their favour. Something similar
is happening in Spain.

------
msandford
When a bunch of people have nothing to lose they can do impressive things. In
this case, nothing to lose means that they don't have good employment
prospects not because of personal failings but rather macroeconomic or
structural problems. When there's little to no opportunity cost to trying to
start your own business it shouldn't be surprising that so many do try.

~~~
rcarmo
There's a flip side to that coin, which is that there are a lot of
"incubators" set up to purportedly support Portuguese startups that have
delivered (statistically) zero successes - there are exceptions, but as far as
I know they're not portrayed in TFA.

Regardless, it bears noting that there are more, standalone, bona fide
startups out here trying to make it, and fortunately not all of them are
relying on the app bubble keeping up.

~~~
hobbes78
UPTEC last year accepted 165 new start-ups and 22 managed to gain independence
and become self-sustained. A success rate of 13% in the start-up world is not
that bad...

[https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=pt&tl=en&js=y&prev...](https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=pt&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=pt-
PT&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fuptec.up.pt%2Fnoticia%2Fimpacto-das-empresas-do-
uptec-no-pib-chega-aos-32-milhoes-de-euros&edit-text=)

------
phillmv
Realmente hoje em dia tenho muito pouca idea de como as coisas estejam, mas
admira-me que a malta toda (que possa fazer apps) não-se tenha despachado prá
Alemanha e a Inglaterra.

~~~
yulaow
If you write something in another language (and it is not a right thing to do
in a international board that obviously use English as only language) at least
translate it to make others understand.

~~~
phillmv
I don't really understand this sentiment. I'm clearly targeting fellow
portuguese speakers on a low traffic thread. It feels… weird to be policed for
my choice of language.

Can you explain why it feels rude to you?

~~~
pimentel
Because if everyone starts doing that, no one will understand anything in this
community.

~~~
GFK_of_xmaspast
I wish the bad posters here would start writing in another language. Maybe
Klingon.

------
paulojreis
Most of them were totally Mo-Lo-So. Nowadays, I guess they're all So-Lo-Mo. :)

------
Apocryphon
I wonder what the social safety net is like in Portugal. It looks like they
have national health service, so maybe dealing with employee health insurance
is one worry their entrepreneurs would lack.

~~~
Amarok
Public health services are sub-par, if you want the best standard of care
you'll need to go private. Ironically, government workers qualify for a
special health insurance, which allows them to use most private hospitals.

Also, part of your salary goes into paying social welfare, and the employer
pays some of it as well (about 11% from the employee and 22% from the
employer). No idea how that compares to the US.

