

Next Gen Wind Power Generator - Popular Mechanics 2007 Breakthrough Award winner - chaostheory
http://www.scribemedia.org/2007/10/12/shawn-frayne-windbelt/

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zach
And yet he didn't register windbelt.com or .org, which is too bad, because
it's such a great name and a good place for people to learn more about it. I
guess it's quite clear he's not in it for the money, though.

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jkush
I wonder how much power it would generate if you had a gazillion of these
things lining our major highways. I bet there's nearly a constant 10mph breeze
from all those cars.

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bls
What is your objective? If your objective is to help the environment, then
this won't work; you are replacing coal/nuclear-generated electricity with
gasoline-powered electricity, using a combination of of extremely inefficient
mechanisms.

If your goal is to get free electricity by leaching off of cars, without
regard to the environment, then it might work. But, there is a huge fixed cost
to manufacture, transport, install, and test the machinery, and a non-
negligible variable cost in maintaining the system.

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fauigerzigerk
The wind cars generate is not causally related to fossile fuel. Solar driven
cars would also cause wind. And even now, generating additional energy from
burning the same amount of fossile fuel can hardly be bad for the environment.

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bls
It isn't the same amount of fuel. If the car's engine is going to power
something else besides the car, it is going to have to work harder.

Imagine the car is running in a vacuum and gets 30MPG. Now, add normal air
resistance. It will not get 30MPG anymore. Now, add something else that
further increases wind resistance. The car will get even fewer miles per
gallon.

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fauigerzigerk
That assumes that air resistance is indeed increased. I doubt that, but I'm
not a physicist... Maybe it depends on what is next to the motorways now?

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bls
Wind power works by creating wind resistance. In order for there to be _less_
air resistance with them installed, they would have to be replacing something
that caused even more wind resistance. But, that seems unlikely.

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amichail
How is this related to the resonance frequency of the belt? Is the system
efficient only at certain frequencies? Do you need to select a belt to match
current wind conditions?

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whacked_new
You can probably change the resonance frequency by dynamically adjusting the
tightness... It seems possible to make a rudimentary mechanical device that
would do this.

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ivankirigin
The problem with the next generation of energy isn't creation, but storage and
distribution.

Efficient batteries mean more progress than most generation breakthroughs.

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DaniFong
I don't really think that batteries are so necessary, and this development is
phenomenal.

This is huge. It means wind is cheaper than nuclear, even with most subsidies.

We don't need batteries -- Arthur Rosenfeld has done work going way back that
shows how distribution isn't a problem for windpower. That's a widespread
myth, perpetuated by media echo chambers, funded by big business.

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ivankirigin
Peak wind != peak demand.

That's all you really need to know to realize this is a storage and
distribution problem.

Nuclear, coal, oil, natural gas, geothermal, hydro --- all the ways we
currently make power are always available.

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DaniFong
Did you know that superconducting power lines are commercially feasible, right
now, for high capacity lines? Negawatt proposals account for a large part of
the problem, if you make distribution efficient. And it can be made very
efficient using superconducting lines.

For the brief periods where the world's overall wind production is low, if
wind ever takes over most of the grid (it probably won't, considering the
political dynamics), there is already a very effective storage technology --
liquid hydrogen. It has a practically limitless capacity (just add more
tanks), and it avoids the toxicity problem of batteries, and it avoids the
materials problem of fuel cells (still, nobody has found something cheap to
replace platinum.)

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ivankirigin
Until hydrogen is stored in a solid material, using what some would call
nanotech but what I call physics, it isn't going to be common. This isn't to
say this is far off, just the way I see it coming -- with knowledge gleaned
from physics PhDs working on the problem.

But the simple answer is 'yes'. Hydrogen could make an excellent base for a
battery.

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nickb
Cool tech! My only concern is noise levels... anything that oscillates at
high(er) frequencies is bound to produce a lot of uncomfortable noise.

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asdflkj
I take it the admins don't edit submission titles anymore...

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bluishgreen
"When used judiciously, swearing can be hilarious, poignant, and uncannily
descriptive. More than any other form of language, it recruits our expressive
faculties to the fullest: the combinatorial power of syntax; the evocativeness
of metaphor; the pleasure of alliteration, meter, and rhyme; and the emotional
charge of our attitudes, both thinkable and unthinkable. It engages the full
expanse of the brain: left and right, high and low, ancient and modern.
Shakespeare, no stranger to earthy language himself, had Caliban speak for the
entire human race when he said, "You taught me language, and my profit on't
is, I know how to curse."

\- Steven Pinker

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asdflkj
I don't see any swearing, though. How is this relevant?

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chaostheory
well then I'm curious - why did you complain?

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asdflkj
Because of cartoon swearing. What are we, in kindergarden?

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bluishgreen
The next logical step is to take it to the nano level and make a paint that
will make electricity when it gets a mild breeze.

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ambiversive
Excellent idea!

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joeguilmette
wow thats really cool. between this and dean kamen's stirling engine, i have a
feeling the third world is in for some _major_ changes in the next decade or
two.

really awe inspiring :)

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gibsonf1
Damn, that is impressive! But... Does it really scale? I sure hope so.

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mhb
Scale in what sense? The stated motivation for the invention was to provide
small amounts of power.

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rms
So is this the real deal?

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mhb
What real deal? It doesn't seem far-fetched that it can generate enough power
to run a few LEDs. Probably a pinwheel can do that too.

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rms
I meant the real deal in the sense of supplanting fossil fuels and/or nuclear
power with regards to cost efficiency.

Dani seems to think that it is the real deal, and I hope that the Illuminati
doesn't make the patent holder an offer he can't refuse.

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mhb
According to the article, the problem it is solving is generating small
amounts of power inexpensively and reliably. It would power those LED lights
which are used to allow people in developing countries to read at night.

You seem to think that this is a small-scale proof of concept even though
there is no reason to think that this is anything but the full sized device.

He doesn't claim nor does it seem credible that there is a particular
advantage to this technology on larger scales. Bearing friction, which he
cites as a problem at the small scale, is not such a big issue for larger
generators.

