

Waterfall: The European Way Of Starting Companies - enki
http://lolstartups.com/post/113097374/waterfall-the-european-way-of-starting-companies

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dhoe
This article paints a completely wrong picture of the European startup scene.
He's doing the equivalent of comparing European startups to US defense
contractors.

Now, what really annoys me about European entrepreneurs is the tendency to
just copy stuff. Like "starting europe's first ycombinator-style incubator"
and then "travel to the bay area (...) to get inspiration for my next
project". That may work, of course, but there's zero creativity in it.

~~~
beza1e1
I've been thinking up some business plans to execute in Germany lately and i
have the impression that you can't be more innovative than the US here,
because of the culture.

Germany (or Europe) is more conservative, which means that US trends impact a
few years later. Web apps are not adopted as fast as in the US. An innovative
idea must not be executed too soon otherwise you fail. So when the time for
your innovation is right in Germany, it has been right in the US two years
before.

By taking an idea from the Valley and copy it, you roughly hit the right time
quite well. In the end the company doesn't get big, because the original
Valley company will buy or sue it (see for example Facebook vs StudiVZ).

I'm still waiting for a german Weebly for example. They are probably still to
small to translate and localize to multiple languages, but there already is
need for it. So i think a german copy would be successful.

This is my theory why europeans tend to copy.

~~~
lispm
Depends in which areas. If you are in environmental sector (for example
alternative energy) there is a good chance that the technology has been
developed in Germany. Same for machines, cars, ... Europe has several
companies competing in the area of high-speed trains. The US has none. It is
just thinking about having their own high-speed train services (minus the
Acela, which is not really high-speed), where Europe has lots of those in
France, Germany, Spain... There are innovation areas where Europe actually now
is ahead of the US. That happened, because the US was more focused in finance,
space and military technology - and less so with other engineering areas
(often civil).

The German 'Mittelstand' (medium sized companies) has lots of
'Weltmarktführer' (market leaders) which are based on innovation and
technology in their areas. Software is part of their offerings, but it is not
the web-based software what they develop. It is often embedded software or
applications. Guess what, these companies are fully exposed to global
competition. Actually their market is global - which is why Germany has a huge
trade surplus - from selling high-tech, machines, tools, cars, trains, robots,
...

The article is also not really correct with respect to 'Theseus'. Theseus is a
german research project in the area of semantic knowledge infrastructure. It
is not a start up company and it is not done with France. Theseus is basic
research.

Volkswagen is also long ago - it was founded by the Nazis. It is not an
example how companies are created in Germany nowadays.

It is true that Germany has less venture capital and its innovation is not
that much based on creation of startup companies funded by venture capital.
But that does not mean innovation is government controlled or induced. The
example I mentioned above, innovation in the 'Mittelstand' is the counter
example.

~~~
ahoyhere
Graphic design, architecture, typography, clothing design, etc., are also
bleeding edge in many parts of Europe (esp. Germany, France, Italy,
Netherlands) compared to the US.

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bdfh42
This article is complete rubbish and bears no resemblance to fact whatsoever.
I live and work in Europe, run my own business in Europe and have had some
involvement in a number of start-ups.

~~~
davidw
Confirmed. I've worked for plenty of European startups (and other companies)
that bear no resemblance to this:

"a company is willed into existence by the government as a public-private
partnership when a need has been identified by the bureaucrats and political
leaders. The goals are clear, and design happens after the money is on the
table and an initial committee of experts has been recruited."

There are things like that, but there are in the US too. It's the exception
though, rather than the rule, even here. There are problems in Europe, but my
will to continue reading faltered upon reading the silly caricature.

~~~
enki
well, if you've worked for startups, then you've worked for the exception. i'm
not saying there aren't any, just fewer than would make sense.

i hope there will be more startups in europe in the future, and some people
are already doing a great job, but the majority hasn't even taken notice that
you can start companies that way, yet.

~~~
davidw
Come on. Europe is not the Soviet Union, and while the government sticks its
nose in things in plenty of ways, there is plenty of space for entrepreneurs,
startups, and all kinds of businesses that aren't some kind of government-
created entity.

Let's talk about the real problems with Europe & startups, not made-up ones.

Here's my take on things:

[http://journal.dedasys.com/2008/12/13/startups-and-work-
euro...](http://journal.dedasys.com/2008/12/13/startups-and-work-europe-vs-
the-us)

------
CaptainCrap
While everyone, including me, is bashing European bureaucracy and tendencies
towards statism, there are a lot of examples of hugely successful and
transformative European companies started by real entrepeneurs:

RyanAir & EasyJet: These completely transformed the European airline industry
in a very disruptive way. The old "flag carriers" are dying off one after the
other, and I'm pretty sure I speak for us all when I say "good riddance" to
that. Now we just need to get rid of the state monopolies on rail transport
(which is coming soon), and we're going to see the same sort of transformation
on high-speed and conventional rail.

Free.fr: Unfortunately only in France for the moment, this ISP is what every
ISP should strive towards: Low prices, good service, lots of features, etc. If
you ever wish your ISP would just do or change <something>, Free has already
done that and more, including standing up to Sarko's ridiculous Hadopi law.

Skype: Was started in Europe and has and still is transforming the telecom
industry along with other companies providing VOIP services.

~~~
CaptainCrap
As an addendum to this comment I just want to say how much it frustrates me
that there aren't more companies like these in Europe. These are shining
examples of what we _could_ achieve if our mindset was a little different.
There is _huge_ potential for disruptive business in Europe, but no-one's
taking advantage of it.

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sgrove
It's an interesting article that has a hint of rant about it.

There's no reason a public-private partnership couldn't work if the
motivations and skills were aligned properly. Entrepreneurial competition,
striving for riches and fame, and fear of starving next month if things don't
go well all play their part in forming the scrappy startup - and are probably
key ingredients for success. If governments and bigger organizations can
remember that, and build new ventures on those principles, then there's a much
better chance of succeeding than the model described by the article.

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sjf
When will you Americans get this? Europe is not a country, (also a pet peeve,
Africa is not a country). There is no over-arching European culture, and I
don't think any one would ever claim that there is.

~~~
davidw
Paul Böhm is from Austria. Your point about Europe is valid of course, but
please direct your ire at your fellow European:-)

~~~
ahoyhere
last.fm is from Austria. There are others.

Metalab, the hackerspace the author of the article started, is partially
funded by the govt but I find it hard to believe it was willed into being by
govt committee.

This article is so strange... and it sounds just like the US, except instead
of search engines, it's some kind of war tech (whether it's weaponry,
vehicles, planes, or spy stuff).

Telecoms and resource companies (e.g. mineral oil), power, postal services,
and so on, have a similar history in the US... but who would write about the
"US Method of Startups: Waterfall" and use the postal service as an example?

Not to mention the bailouts (of railroads, of utilities, of car makers, of
banks...).

~~~
davidw
I think there are some sour grapes or frustration there, given the guy's
involvement with startups - maybe something hasn't been going well for him
and/or he's run into lots of bureaucrats or obstacles, something which does
happen in Europe. Hopefully he can get around those difficulties.

> last.fm is from Austria.

I went to Dornbirn and met one of the guys formerly involved with Last.fm, who
is now doing some other kind of startup. Nice place.

~~~
ahoyhere
You might be right.

I also think Austrians especially have no idea how good they've got it. They
think the US is different because if you just take trips to NYC or other major
destinations, you don't get a feel for it.

I'm grateful for what it's like to live in Austria. Typically at least once a
day, something will remind me of how much better it is here.

I don't even care about the taxes.

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tybris
Actually this is government vs. business, not Europe vs. U.S.

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vorador
American == Entrepreneur && European == Government funded.

Creating models to fit your world views is _always_ wrong.

