
Suicidal Software Developer - yla92
http://pastebin.com/PXp9Vt9M
======
DanBC
1) get medical help. This should include a wide range of clinicians - a
psychiatrist to diagnose illness and prescribe medication; some kind of
psychological therapy (when you're ready); some kind of occupational therapist
(to either keep you in work; or rapidly get you back into work). You are in
England. This should be both free and high quality, althogh MH services are
pushed nationwide and especially in the capital. You can ask your GP about
these - or sometimes yu can self-refer. Websearh for your location and terms
like "IAPT".

2) many people are not good at listening. You can find free listeners, some of
whom hae training. Or you could pay for registered qualified therapists. BACP
is one espected registrarion. Sessions should cost less than £50 per hour,
although it's easy to spend more than that.

3) do a web search for Location and "social groups" \- this should return a
lon list of activities you can get involved in tha will introduce you to more
people.

Depression and suicidal thing is treatable. Change is possible. But it's
important to remember that depression can be a fatal illness, and can shorten
a person's life. This isn't just through completed suicide, but through poor
health caused by self neglect.

~~~
london1988
Thanks for the advice.

I've gone and registered at my GP and have kicked off this process. I didn't
consider that the help I need would be from a range of clinicians, so will
need to go and do some research on this.

I'm hoping through a referral I'll be able to setup a recurring session with a
therapist.

"It's important to remember that depression can be a fatal illness, and can
shorten a person's life. This isn't just through completed suicide, but
through poor health caused by self neglect"

This really hits me hard. In an effort to positively move forward I decided
just after the breakup that I wanted to lose a stone (14 pounds). -18 pounds
later I'm feeling much better but for the last few evenings I've completely
been off food.. "poor health caused by self neglect" Is something that I need
to be very aware of. Thanks for highlighting it.

------
dbbolton
I remember reading a quote somewhere attributed to a person who survived
jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge. Paraphrased, they said that at the moment
they jumped, they suddenly realized that every single problem in their life
was fixable except the fact that they had just jumped off a f __*ing bridge.

~~~
moron4hire
Adrenaline can do that to you. Unfortunately, it passes.

I try very hard to not make big, life-changing decisions when I'm happy and
energetic, because it's usually jumping (if you'll excuse the pun) feet first
into commitments that I'm not going to be able to keep when I go back to
normal, level attitude--or even worse--my low periods, when failing at my
commitments is not only a foregone conclusion, but I know it, and it makes me
feel worse.

I can't tell you how many times I've resolved "this time, I'm going to ride my
bike every day" or "this time, I'm going to work a normal schedule and not
procrastinate". Yes, it's about willpower, but willpower is a function of
energy. No energy, no willpower.

That's one of the insidious things about depression as a disease: it works to
keep itself in place. Depression (saps|is-caused-by-a-sap-of) energy. It's
like a lead blanket, holding you down in the chair, keeping you from the
exercise and healthful food and water and sunlight you need to get out of it.
I know it's not an animate object, but it helps me to think of it as so. I
won't let "it" consume me, "it" win.

~~~
facepalm
There is modern research into willpower and afaik the essence is: try to not
use your willpower. Rearrange your life so that you don't need willpower (like
sell your car and burn your public transport subscription, so that you have to
go by bicycle).

Beating oneself up about lack of willpower is really sad (I do it myself, but
it's wrong).

I recommend "The Willpower Instinct" by Kelly McGonigal. There are also
YouTube videos of her speaking.

~~~
moron4hire
Yeah, that's largely what I do, especially for things like budgeting. That's
one of the reasons I don't have automatic depositing setup with my bank. By
forcing myself to have to go to the bank to deposit checks, I am always short
on cash, and I know it, so it helps me curb my spending.

------
tomorgan
About the only useful part of this response is: I feel for you. I understand
what you're going through, and I'm going to try and convince you to stick with
it.

The rest of this: well, take it or leave it.

Sounds like you've managed to coincide two bad things in one go: a bad place
in your career, and a bad place in your relationship. You've ended up with a
double-whammy, so it's hit you hard.

From (limited) experience, I'd say let the relationship thing sort itself out.
I know how it feels now: and it'll take 6 months before you wake up and go
through the day, and then realise that you didn't think about it all day.
That's when you know you're over it. Until then, just accept it. There are no
shortcuts.

Meanwhile, focus on the job. It's the thing you CAN change. If you don't like
it, change it. Maybe, even if it's "ok"... change it anyway. You need
something that will distract, excite and occupy you for the next 6 months.

That's what I did anyway (also from the UK, also sporting a beard and feeding
a cat). Change the career if you need to, because it's easier. Go and do
something that makes you happy, for short-term (and long-term) happiness. The
rest will sort itself out.

just my 2p

~~~
london1988
Thanks for the kind words Tomorgan. :+1:.

The double-whammy is certainly a good way of putting it. The new job
(literally the next working day after the breakup) was specifically tailored
on my previous shared vision. So even if it was the best job in the world it
was going to be an uphill battle.

The job is "ok". Its good money, the idea and product is not based on fiction.
I'm uncertain if its just my outlook on the job at the moment or the job
itself. Either way, I take on board your sentiment of it being the one thing I
CAN change. Maybe when I'm a little further down the line I'll consider
something not solely based on the money?

"There are no shortcuts." Really valid right now. I thought I could muscle my
way through this but I can't.

Thanks again.

------
rwhitman
Go find a therapist. Now. Don't wait. Suicidal thoughts are considered an
urgent mental health issue so you will probably be covered by health care.

Even if you weren't suicidal a psychologist is a great place to air your
grievances without judgment. Well worth it.

~~~
london1988
I've gone ahead and done just that and will hopefully get a referral soon for
a professional so that I may "air" my "grievances without judgment". Thanks
for the support.

------
Nursie
1\. Therapy. If you're genuinely suicidal, go see a therapist or even a
doctor, RIGHT NOW.

2\. So you're in one of the world's most vibrant cities, you've got house-
deposit kinda money saved, you're single and depressed. GTFO and travel. Go
backpacking somewhere for a few months. If you're young enough (under 30) then
get yourself a one-year visa for Australia and spend a few months travelling
the east coast, staying at hostels, sunbathing, getting outside, meeting
people (and if you're over 30 then do the same, you just might not be able to
stay more than 3 months!). Seriously, you can't help it. I'm an expert at not
meeting anyone, and even I didn't manage that on that trail.

Then, when you decide to come back to London, if you decide to come back to
London, you'll have a different perspective on life, and realise this is just
one city, a pretty grey one that constricts life in all sorts of ways. and she
was just one woman, and there's a whole frickin' world out there waiting to be
lived in. Fuck Suicide.

~~~
london1988
Nursie, thanks for the support. I've gone and registered at the GP and
hopefully going to get a call to arrange to see a therapist soon. It wasn't
easy.

Thankfully I'm under 30 so wouldn't get kicked out of Australia after 3 months
(why that restriction is in place seems ludicrous). I've considered travelling
but worry that presently that would be escaping my issues. When the time is
right though the east coast of Australia sounds pretty awesome. I had never
considered it as a location to get lost in so will jot it down. :+1:.

"There's a whole frickin' world out there waiting to be lived in. Fuck
Suicide." Made me smile.

Thanks again.

~~~
Nursie
Sometimes when you escape somewhere for a while your issues seem a lot smaller
from over there :)

Either way, good luck with it all, hope you find a way to happiness!

~~~
w0rd-driven
I cannot stress this enough. The relief of a week off _really_ helped me last
year. When I came back I literally felt that "lead weight" another commenter
mentioned. I thought it was that Atlanta is different than Fort Lauderdale but
it was more likely depression kicking in again. I felt like a different person
on that trip and even if I have to say "I remember x years ago..." That break
really helped put things into proper focus. The fight then becomes make that
one week the rest of my life. If i can do one week I can do two or fifty-two.

I've become a fan of small victories as of late because I'm a bit of a
perfectionist. There will never be a "right" way/place/time to deal with this.
I have to find relief however it'll come and the smallest steps I can make if
it comes to that.

------
steveklabnik
This mentioned /r/programming, but in cause the author is reading... EDIT: The
author is actually posting on proggit, so I've directly responded to them
there. That said, in case anyone here is feeling this way...

Please, please, _please_ go see an actual mental health professional. They
have the training and experience to help you in this situation. Random foreign
denizens probably do not, and even if they do, this isn't the right place to
be able to help.

I didn't do it for a very long time due to social stigmas around mental
issues. I was never suicidal, but seriously. Please do it.

I should also mention that it can take a few tries to find someone who you're
comfortable with.

~~~
comrh
+1. I was suicidal and it took me years to work up the energy/courage to go
see someone but treatment didn't really start for me until I did.

1) You are important.

2) You deserve to not have to feel this way.

------
mrcwinn
Hey there, if you're listening! I actually dealt with something similar almost
a decade ago. I never considered suicide, but during a snowy winter where I
also experienced financial pressure and a lot of family strain and changes, I
very slowly slipped into a sort of "fog."

I also became very sensitive, both to how people interacted with me, but even
to physical things. I remember bumping my shoulder into a door one time and
screaming, "OW!" It couldn't have really hurt - my shoulder is plenty strong -
I think I just wanted attention. It was a natural overreaction. I would get
upset about things that, in retrospect, shouldn't have really bothered me.

I also tended to wake up at 4am, filled with anxiety. I would tell myself to
work, but really I would just waste time until morning came. You can't really
be productive or focused at 4am.

I never felt sad or happy. I just felt nothing much at all. I was completely
unaware of this at the time, of course. Other people around me were very aware
of it.

My mood really disabled me, which only made things worse.

I was hesitant and too embarrassed to seek medical help, so instead I
privately got a hold of some over the counter treatments: specifically 5-HTP
supplements and St. John's Wort, if I recall. Although in retrospect I'm
positive it was placebo effect, the _instant_ I took these pills, I felt the
fog lift over me. I physically felt something happened to me. I'll never
forget it.

Really I think I just felt the relief of turning a corner, of taking some kind
of action. I'm a naturally positive person who has childhood experience
helping myself out of things, so maybe I was built better to deal with it. In
that case, despite my success, I absolutely encourage you to seek medical
help. It's no big deal. Don't sweat it. Just take a small step.

Life is short and it is amazing. Not "iPhone amazing" \- but truly, absolutely
amazing. It's a gift and we have a responsibility to put good things back into
the world in return. You never know what good things are around the corner -
but even more importantly, you can ACT to influence your life and what happens
in it. Don't stress about any one thing, and make sure you are treating others
well (by taking care of yourself).

Take care of yourself. You deserve to feel better.

~~~
mrec
> Life is short and it is amazing.

I'm sure you mean well. But if there's a more efficient way to alienate
someone than presenting the direct opposite of their experience as if it were
some great objective Truth, I can't imagine what it is.

------
pistle
You can rebirth yourself in this life at any time. Run (towards or away). When
you can't run, fight. When you are beaten in the fight, become reborn.

For every group of 1, 100, 1 million people who you think see you as a
failure, there are billions of others who will only know you as a whoever you
are the first time they see you.

Internally, reconsider any rigid concept of self. Who are you? What do you
value? Why do you value that?

You can spend each sublife toiling away to only see it destroyed by external
or internal flaws in the design or tooling.

You have to let go of your 'self' to find yourself and that can mean trials
and tribulations, but struggle and suffering is the human condition. Happiness
comes in various sizes by playing the game with the human condition and having
it go better than bad.

Small victories await. You must PLAY to win and play to WIN.

~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
Good advice, in my opinion. On implementation:

Run: Sell / give away / otherwise dispose of everything that anchors you to
memories of the past. Archive or delete photos. Move house.

Fight: Physically: If you can drag yourself to it, find someone who teaches
MMA and doesn't pull their punches, and doesn't expect you to either (edit: I
mean, in a control situation where the training is _hard_ , not like fight
club or something). It feels damn good to be beaten up, and to be able to hit
someone as hard as you can. Mentally / emotionally: _don 't_ kill yourself.
Fight it.

Reborn: Just survive the next 6 - 12 months and you will be. I don't think
there's anything you can do to make this happen over night. I've worked with
some good counsellors and psychologists that have helped along the way. The
good ones always say shocking things, for example one psychologist said to me
"Look, I don't think being emotive is really that effective for you. Probably
what you need to do is drink some cement - that is, harden the fuck up. Or, if
you think it will help, drink your own urine. But anyway, clearly sitting
around crying about your situation isn't working for you", which, in the
context of what was happening, was exactly what I needed to hear. Hearing
someone else say "oh, poor you, that must be hard" would have only made things
worse. One of the best things a friend said to me was "Go on, kill yourself,
you'll at least have achieved more than me." Ha!

My AU$0.02

------
jason_slack
If the author is reading this. PLEASE, please dont kill yourself. I wont say
what you are going through is a minor bump in the road but if you can get some
treatment and stress relief you will turn around again.

I can say from experience.

Talk to us. Please. If you need someone to talk to, e-mail me, I'll give you
my number and you can even call me collect.

------
tragic
As others have said: for the time being at least, we have an NHS in this
country. _See your GP_. Tell them you've been having those kind of thoughts.
You will be referred to somebody who can help.

Reflections on associated issues:

There's a big problem with stigma attached to mental health issues, as is well
observed by many. This is true 'in general'. But it can be easier to punish
yourself when something like a breakup triggers a serious depressive episode -
it feels 'stupid' to be so miserable about something that happens to everybody
everywhere. It's just not true. A bad breakup is pretty traumatising. The
human brain has innumerable virtues. A built in sense of perspective is not
one of them. A qualified professional is not going to judge you for it;
sometimes even just an hour with a therapist - just the act of going into the
office, even - can puncture the worst of it.

More importantly, sometimes that can't - because some obvious proximate cause
for a depressive episode can mask longer-term underlying mental health issues.

Alpha, omega: drag yourself into a doctor's office. All the best.

EDIT: clarification

------
danso
FWIW, the OP seems to be responding on r/programming
[http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/28g755/suicidal...](http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/28g755/suicidal_software_developer/)

------
gobots
I had struggled with untreated suicidal depression for 15 years. I was very
quiet about it. I am a web developer.

Three years ago I was divorced from my wife, left my birth religion and quit
my job. On top of all my issues I was suffering from burnout – I hadn't had a
vacation in years. Since I was the religious guy at my job I worked the
holidays and was promised make up time. Company policy shifted at some point
and we were only allowed to accrue a certain number of days with no rollover –
when I quit, I also lost 35+ "make up" vacation days.

I tried getting another job right away, but quit after a month – it was an
easy job, but I had lost my ability to work around others. I managed to pick
up steady contract work for about a year, but this didn't give me much of a
breather.

I also found a girlfriend who kept me distracted from my problems, but that
wasn't to last.

Winter is when my depression hits hard, and it kicked in during the second
year I was dating this girl. Having zero experience with depressed people, she
couldn't handle it and dumped me. That's when everything I had gone through
prior caught up to me. Long story short – I got on medication and started
therapy which helped a bit, but the suicidal thoughts and planning continued.

I don't remember exact time lines, but I think it was around 8 months ago that
I decided to weigh the pros and cons of living by making a list. I decided not
to off myself yet, and that instead I would try to focus on improving myself.

I am a homeschooled community college drop out. I grew up in a trailer and
taught myself how to program when I was a child by making video games. I'm
also a very creative person who writes, draws, composes music, etc. I started
thinking about these things after making the suicide list, and realized that I
had lost my way. I've never been one to care about money, but around a decade
ago I was on welfare and living in the middle of nowhere. I managed to pull
myself out of poverty by learning PHP and getting a job in Chicago. That was
my salvation but also nearly my ruination. I had lost my creativity and life
was all about work – I was making $96,000 a year at my full time job, plus
keeping clients on the side.

In the last year I have been able to land another six figure job and multiple
contracts with pretty big clients, but everything has consistently fallen
through. I collapse a few months in, get panic attacks and feel suicidal
again... so I had to take a different approach.

My current situation is this – I take on 3 to 6 month short term contracts,
live on a shoestring budget (no cellphone, no car payment, nothing but the
bare essentials), and then I self educate and work on personal projects for 3
to 4 months solid.

By doing this I have been able to learn 4 different game engines, 2
programming languages and finger pick on the guitar. Being raised as a
homeschooled Jehovah's Witness left me with knowledge gaps, so I have also
spent large amounts of time educating myself about science (genetics, biology,
cosmology) and religion (I've read most of Dawkins, Hitchens and Sagan).

My goals have completely shifted over the last several months. For the first
time in a very very long time I'm not thinking about suicide on a daily /
weekly basis. I have put all of my creative energy into creating video games,
and though I may never make a hit game or be a great musician or a scientist,
these things are giving me exponentially more pleasure than working a full
time job, spending 8 to 10 hours a day with people I don't love, playing
office politics, supporting a platform I don't care about and just waiting for
the weekend so I can sleep.

~~~
igravious
Out of blatant curiosity I'd like to know how you came about leaving your
birth religion. Any Jehovah's Witnesses I've met seem to be so ideologically
committed to that religion that I have a hard time imagining how anyone could
reach a place where they stopped identifying with it. Care to shed some light
on this? Also, thanks for sharing!

~~~
gobots
The internet and some really shitty people that I worked with a while back
saved me.

Here's a bit of backstory.

I believed 100% that I would never get old or die because Armageddon would
come before then, the Earth would be restored to a paradise and sickness /
death would be wiped out for good. I started preaching from door to door at
age 5 and was baptized at age 11. My parents have been in since 8 years old,
and their parents have been in since their late 20s. Most of my family is in
the religion and all of my friends were in it.

I believed in demons and angels.

I believed (as all true Witnesses do) that there were angels watching over us
when we were preaching. In the 90s when I was 14 I would preach on a street
that had the highest murder rate in Joliet. It was called the hill and was
lined with crack houses and gangs on the corners. Also I'm white and everyone
that lived on the hill was black. I preached without fear because I knew that
I couldn't get murdered because god would save me with his angels.

Demons were very real as well – every Witness knows a few stories or has a
friend of a friend that had a demon possessed item. I had reoccurring
nightmares from the time I was a child onward that I was being attacked by
demons, or that a family member was actually a demon waiting to kill me. I was
genuinely afraid of the dark and especially mirrors in the dark until I was 28
years old.

I had never been exposed to other religious teachings or education surrounding
evolution or cosmology. Instead I learned about these things from the
Watchtower's publications which are of course slanted against science in their
own special way.

the people I worked with were atheists and had no idea I was in a (mostly)
fundamentalist religion until I had been hired. They launched a series of
attacks on my beliefs, looked up videos and stories on the internet about
Witnesses (after I told them I wasn't allowed to) and essentially forced those
things on me. In truth, this just strengthened my faith... but then something
changed. They started acting friendly to me instead of attacking me on a daily
basis (I think that's because after 2 years I had enough and threatened to sue
in an email). Down the line this gave me the chance to ask them if they had
ever seen demons (I knew they all did drugs and I was always told this is a
way for demons to take hold of your mind).

They of course laughed at this question and assured me that they had never
seen a demon. I then asked a good friend of mine from that job who had grown
up doing drugs and around drugs if he had seen demons. He hadn't either. This
got me curious so I started researching demons on the internet and found that
they're basically treated as mythology. That pretty much opened the
floodgates. I researched homeopathy (I didn't have a real doctor until my
teens – only a homeopathic chiropractor) and found out that it was
pseudoscience. When I brought that up to my mother, she had a reaction that
was similar to attacking someone's faith – that bothered me greatly and I
realized in that moment that she was willing to believe everything. From there
the entire house of cards fell, though very slowly. It took about 2.5 years to
fully break free from the beliefs I once held as true and the internet is
ultimately responsible for keeping me out. I was able to use it to research
forbidden knowledge and join communities of other ex-witnesses who were
struggling with the same issues.

Now I'm an atheist. My family relationships are strained at best (I've seen my
parents and sister one time in the last 4 years, though they will speak to me
briefly on occasion). I lost all of the friends I had built up over the years
and as of last year I was totally alone save for the one good friend mentioned
above and his girlfriend. They helped me to get through this by letting me
hang out at their house a lot.

These days I'm doing much better. I'm so much happier without religion. It
vacuumed up every iota of my spare time and I received nothing in return. I am
convinced that all religion is destructive and corrupt, including Eastern
religions. I think the notion of a god and spirits is laughable to the point
of embarrassment and to deny science is to deny your own existence.

You are correct that most born-in Witnesses would never leave. That's because
it means completely upheaving your life and becoming someone new. For many
people that means drugs, sex, alcohol and partying – the things they weren't
allowed in the religion. I did these things myself, but I was able to slow
down and catch myself before I hit the bottom. Others hit bottom and stay
there, or come crawling back to the "loving" arms of the organization.

~~~
Udo
I'm just commenting to say that this is a very deeply inspiring story, thanks
for sharing your experience. I too had assumed that religious fundamentalists
are mostly immune to facts and essentially get a mental root kit installed
which is unbreakable. Hearing that you managed to break out of this (all by
yourself no less) makes me a bit more hopeful for our species' future. Again,
thank you for that.

~~~
gobots
Thanks, but I'm way less hopeful now. When I utter the "atheist" word it seems
I am actually handing people an exclusive ticket to explain to me why I'm
wrong. Explaining non-belief is harder than explaining belief.

I'm less hopeful because it seems that the general population is much stupider
than I had anticipated.

------
yulaow
I am currently on a situation very similar to yours. My suggestion: find a
psychotherapist NOW. I am working on my problems NOW and it feel a lot better
to just wandering on my bad thoughts all day long.

I am not ok yet, I still can't sleep well, I still feel paralyzed some days, I
still have uncontrollable fears, but I am really making improvements and I
have someone who supports me and shows me the way.

Find a psychotherapist now.

------
wozmirek
Oh, it sucks. I remember taking acid when dumped by a to-be girlfriend, I feel
for you man.

Take a break, as others suggested, but with people. Maybe try changing your
environment? I'm not a programmer, but close (well, a copywriter/marketer with
humanities background) and noticed that you devs are different when it comes
to emotions that other people. Maybe change your environment for a bit?

Working out is a good idea, though I'm not sure about the gym - it's quite
solitary anyway! What helped me once was kendo. Roaring for two hours
straight, being (gently) commanded by the sensei, lots of sweat and muscle
pain made me think differently.

All in all - you can do it! Come back here in a few months and tell us how it
turned out!

------
Loque
I also have a beard and have a relationship with a cat, and was with someone
who I thought I would be with for the rest of my life, I also live in the UK
and worked in London for over 5 years. I now run a small studio in Wales and
day-to-day it is tough, I have been dealing with suicidal thoughts also and it
is not easy. The only advice I can give is hold tight, it is very hard finding
decent people (few and far between). Don't forget to enjoy the things you do
for yourself, and slowly continue to hack away at things you want to change in
your life - if I have learnt anything as of late, it is that things take time.
All the best if you read this.

------
cupofjoakim
Dude, don't kill yourself. I bet that if you give it a couple of years you'll
be in a dad with a wonderful family.

As a first step I'd recommend you to get a dog though, the condition less love
you get from those fellas are what took me up from my depression. Also, it
gives you something to do. Activation is important.

~~~
imdsm
I second this. Get a dog. You never know who you'll meet when spending time
with that guy, you two might even find yourselves a new family.

Do it, OP.

~~~
xamebax
Dogs require taking care of. For someone who is clinically depressed and has
huge problems with properly taking care of themselves, taking care of someone
else might be extremely exhausting. It can also lead to blaming oneself for
not treating the dog properly, regardless of how it's treated. Trust me, I've
seen this in people with clinical depression.

~~~
JohnBooty
Yes. That's so important to note.

Pets can go both ways. I've been in depressed states where my pets were the
only thing keeping me going. I didn't want to live any more, but who would
take care of my pets? I had to force myself to function so that the pets
didn't starve or live in their own feces. That constant, gentle kick in the
ass was what I needed a lot of the time.

Like you say, it can unfortunately cut the other way as well. Dogs are an
especially high-risk proposition because they are a big time and money
commitment, and if a person is feeling overwhelmed already... that could be
trouble.

Possible compromise: volunteer at an animal shelter?

------
norswap
I empathize. Have considered that there are other ways to "snap" than suicide
(or violence in general)? Go and do something crazy, something you like. Not
something to impress others. You don't need to help African children if you
don't want to. You might just want to stay home and play some world of
warcraft, that's totally fine. But whatever you do, don't do it to numb the
pain, and don't do it for other people, do it for yourself.

------
lilsunnybee
There are many possible causes for what you're going through, a lot of them
already listed and needing immediate psychiatric and psychological treatment.
This is good advice, especially to help with the mental aspect of things so
that you don't end your life prematurely.

But one thing no one mentioned, that i'm a bit surprised about because you
mention falling asleep during work, waking up not feeling refreshed, etc. is a
_sleep study_. It's very very possible you might have a sleep disorder. You
sound very much like i did in the early stages of my own sleep disorder,
before my life completely fell apart, before multiple suicide attempts, before
becoming homeless, before moving back home with my parents, before 9 years
after symptoms first started, with health insurance again due to ACA in the US
i finally saw a competent doctor and got properly evaluated, and found out i
had developed narcolepsy.

Any number of other sleep disorders could cause your symptoms too, of
depression and anxiety, as well as the other issues, with conditions like
sleep apnea being the most common.

Please please speak to your GP and get a sleep study done, if you haven't had
one done already. It's definitely worth doing before you make any final
decisions, and it just might save your life.

~~~
skittles
When I read about the falling asleep at work and waking up to a headache, I
thought sleep apnea was a probable root of the problems. Lack of sleep does
terrible things to a person.

------
ch39sii
While I havent experienced your pain directly, I appreciate you sharing that
with all of us.

Let me tell you something, earlier this year I also saw the end of a
relationship I thought was with my partner in life and out of the sudden turns
out it was completely not, dreams and plans of many many years shattered in a
matter of 2 months.

The effect it had not only was emotional, physical (I was pretty much not
eating, not sleeping for many weeks) even showed in the code I write, bugs,
crappy code, low productivity. I look back at the commit graphs and there is a
HUGE drop during those days, and while that pain still hurts sometimes, I've
slowly have been coming out of that 'hole' I was in and what really helped me
to get through it was to understand that:

I was suffering because of the idealization I made of the other person and the
future I was hoping for. I was not suffering for something that actually
happened, nor for the person who she really was (long story: lies etc).

Also to understand that pain is natural, but suffering beyond that is
partially a choice (I know it sounds cheesy, but makes sense to me).

So the strength to get out of where you are is in you, really, of course the
fun part is to find the circumstances, the strength and sometimes the right
people to get you through it.

I know it may be just a small detail in the vast ocean of what you are going
through right now, but I wanted to share that little piece of realization that
helped me a lot. Thanks for sharing it, and I hope that the comments and input
here help to get you some clarity :) _bro hug_

------
tim333
Some things you could try: -

Go backpack the world a bit - beaches trekking etc. Amazing how stuff like
that can change your mood.

Drugs - go to your GP - he'll give you pills - may work.

Check out Seligman / CBT. Helped me. See [http://www.amazon.co.uk/Learned-
Optimism-Change-Your-Mind/dp...](http://www.amazon.co.uk/Learned-Optimism-
Change-Your-
Mind/dp/1400078393/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1403101668&sr=8-1&keywords=seligman)

------
peterwwillis
1\. Get into therapy. Today. You know you need to, so just do it, now.

2\. Stop asking yourself or others questions without answering them yourself
first. You ask questions like "How does one break this news to his fellow
colleagues and boss?" Well, how do _you_ think someone else would break the
news to them? Write down all the ways you can think that somebody else would.
Now do that for every other question you've asked. Answering your own
questions is part of what's called "doing the work" of getting better.

3\. Stop giving yourself excuses. You haven't killed yourself because _you don
't want to die._ Nobody does; it's a natural state programmed into us like
registers in a CPU. So acknowledge that you don't want to die and start
focusing on what you will live for.

4\. Focus on being more positive. Force yourself to think good thoughts, about
other people, and yourself. Think about things you like and enjoy. Surround
yourself with beautiful pictures, uplifting music, and [morally] good work.
Think about a life that helps people and has a positive, productive purpose to
it.

5\. Learn to appreciate the world, and think of yourself as but a tiny part of
it, rather than as the center of your universe. Right now you're thinking, oh
my life, my purpose, my former partner, my job! Hyper-focusing on yourself and
your relationships isn't going to lead to positive introspection or
compassionate reflection about life. I think you should try to come to a place
where you don't focus on yourself at all, where you focus on yourself in
relation to the world around you.

I recommend getting some books on mindfulness and starting a yoga practice;
it's a good starting point to clearing your mind so your thoughts aren't
clouded by fear and pain.

------
spacefight
Seek professional help before a third suicidal attempt comes anyway near you -
or it might have been too late to solve the other issues at hand.

------
muhuk
I think this might be the key to his depression:

    
    
        I put up with a lot of startup bullshit...
    

Stress symptoms don't necessarily manifest themselves immediately. It might be
something that happened long time ago (3 - 6 months) surfacing now. And when
it is happening, you might not pay attention to it, you might be inclined to
overlook. (citation needed)

    
    
        50% is not wanting to put others through torment.
    

This is BS. Committing suicide with certainty and without much pain is hard
work. I know, I had done my homework. But a good programmer should be able to
come up with better strategies than walking into the traffic.

Besides why do you care? You'll be dead.

    
    
        There is no other 40%.
    

I think the other 40% is because you know subconsciously that you can actually
go on. You just don't know how. Still, it's preferable to be alive than dead.
Call it will if you like.

I hope he can change his circumstances and get rid of the depression real
soon.

~~~
bbarn
Upvoted for this comment:

Stress symptoms don't necessarily manifest themselves immediately. It might be
something that happened long time ago (3 - 6 months) surfacing now. And when
it is happening, you might not pay attention to it, you might be inclined to
overlook. (citation needed)

Citation or not, this is something that people overlook constantly. Sometimes
the resistance/fight or flight mechanisms in our brains will get us through
truly awful stuff, only to start really being bothered by it months later when
we have the free brain power to think about it.

Also worth noting, is that sometimes really GOOD life events can be stressful
as well. Landing a new job, finding a new partner, etc., all of those things
(or perhaps wanting to keep those new things in place) can also add onto the
stress pile much more significantly than others see. The real kicker is that
there just aren't very many people you can vent about it to or seek advice
from when you're talking about how great everything is, and how much it bugs
you. It's something I make a point to watch out for when I talk to friends and
peers. Too many people seem to respond after the fact with "But things were
going so well for him" without seeing how that can make things difficult for
someone.

------
pyriku
Hey, there.

I'm also based in London, and I may not understand your situation, but if you
wanna meet for a pint and talk, I'm happy to do so.

Take care mate.

------
bluezero
Hi,

One of those who found the light. Some suggestions from my experience

1\. This is a temporary phase. It will take time, but you will get over it,
get better, and feel a lot better. Hold on, with hope. You will have someone
nice to go home to and have your own children. She was not the last person on
Earth. If not her then there will be someone else.

2\. Get professional help. Please, get professional help. Go to a psychiatrist
and follow their advise. Its normal. Everyone does it. And it works.

3\. Don't go public with how you are feeling at your workplace. If you are not
performing your best, that's OK.

4\. Keep your job. At least until you have already found another one. It is
one of the things forcing you to go through your daily routine and giving you
an opportunity to interact with other human beings.

5\. Its ok to grieve. Its part of being healed. You are already doing the
right things by asking for help. Hang in there and you will find a purpose
which will get you back on track.

Edits: added \n

------
jorgeleo
There is no simple or easy answer. And no one can tell you "I know how you
feel" because we all feel different. So...

1\. Get medical help. There is a lot to be said and done with the right doctor
and therapist

2\. Believe or not: WALK 20 minutes a day

3\. GOTO 1

You need to feel better, but that will only happens if you take action towards
it. And it begins with medical help.

~~~
bbarn
As a lifelong cyclist, both competitively, and transportation oriented, I
still try to find time for #2. Sometimes just walking around, no matter where
you are, gives you a different perspective about things. When I'm angry,
depressed, what have you, the first thing I do is just put on my running shoes
and walk for an hour. I used to try to walk home or to work once a week
instead of biking or public transit, just for the experience. It's definitely
saved me from myself more than once.

------
was_hellbanned
With regards to the relationship, I've been in a similar place. I'd say it
takes about five years to truly get over such a profound loss. It's really
true that ending a deeply-felt romantic relationship is not much different
from grieving a death. I've heard good things about the book, "How to Survive
the Loss of a Love" ($7 on Amazon). Also, Zoloft worked wonders for me at a
similar time in my life.

Also, get off /r/programming. It's the most emotionally unhealthy thing I can
think of for a software developer. It's nothing but a self-aggrandizing,
alpha-geek shitfest.

~~~
hashbanged
I recently started on Zoloft, and despite how afraid I was of it and how many
bad experiences I read online, it's been fantastic. Could you elaborate more
on your experience?

~~~
was_hellbanned
_Could you elaborate more on your experience?_

Well, I had absolutely no negative effects from it, and many positive effects.
It stopped the internal negative feedback loop. It improved my mood. It
allowed me to focus on my work. I had no feelings of being emotionally dead,
or whatever such effect people like to claim SSRIs gave them. It was an
entirely positive experience.

While I don't like the idea of general practitioners handing out anti-
depressant prescriptions (instead, they should refer to a psychiatrist who
will take responsibility for a full-course treatment), I don't think people
should be basing their medical decisions on negative anecdotes they find
online. Really, that sort of nonsense plays directly into feeding the
depression.

------
robg
The reason suicide isn't logical is because there's no coming back from it.
You're making a definitive judgement where one isn't possible. Any number of
worthwhile things could happen with the rest of your life. If you're young,
you'll likely have the chance to travel into space. That seems far from now,
but then 20 years ago all phone calls were inside, our lives were dictated by
where we lived, and we had just watched Cold War whimper to a close.

All that said, yup, this existence often _seems_ pointless. I've read enough
Existentialism to drive that point home. We do often feel trapped without
purpose. We struggle to dignify our jobs, our relationships, ourselves, and
our future. Really, _this_ is it? Really?

Then you fall in love. Or experience a sunset on the open ocean. Or see the
Milky Way from the middle of the dessert. Or skydive from 10,000 feet. If your
life feels mundane, then make new choices. If you're willing to kill yourself,
kill who you are and who you've been. If you have nothing to lose by ending it
all, why not start over in a new country or a new profession? Find hobbies
that require taking chances?

Meaning is what you make. If you are convinced there is none, then the hardest
look is the one inward to find another identity. Who said you have to be you,
the same you, each and every day? Kill yourself but don't end your life. End
the choice of who you are and find another, more fulfilling version. What do
you have to lose?

~~~
crpatino
Appeal to reason is probably not the best strategy, suicide being the result
of a mind surrounded in a storm of negative emotions. Not a neurologist or
mental health professional, but from first hand experience I can tell:

* You may not commit suicide _here and now_ because it is a one-way ticket to Hell, and an insult to God. So you are trained form childhood to suppress those thoughts at all cost.

* You may not commit suicide _here and now_ because you fear that a loved one will find your corpse.

* You may also not commit suicide _here and now_ for fear that your attempt will fail and you will end up crippled and your life will suck even more (and you may loose your ability to commit suicide latter).

* You may not commit suicide _here and now_ because some people that is supposed to help you out completely drops the ball, so you get so pissed off that you break out of your melancholy out of sheer anger (this happened to me once, when I reached out to a church-operated emergency hot-line and nobody picked the damned phone).

Of course, you may always opt to do it _later_. But the point is that it all
revolves around emotions, so any counter has to have a strong emotional
component (either direct, or through the underlying neurochemical substrate).

------
igravious
Even though it does not seem like it now the pain of your breakup will fade.
Though you haven't gone into details try not to blame anyone for what
happened. These words must sound hollow to you but give yourself the time and
space to mourn the loss of what you had.

This "logical" way of thinking you speak about is interesting but have you
considered that besides this cognitive machinery you have many other sorts of
biological and neurological machinery in your brain/body. It's an interesting
process trying to uncover what they are. Also, something to think about might
be -- if you focus on the logical part of how you interact with the world you
may neglect to appreciate other ways in which you are in the world.

And I hate to say this but in a sense suicide may be a very rational act for
someone who is a lot of pain but when you think about it we rarely ever tell
people who are close to us that we feel suicidal. Why is this? And then
there's the negative traumatic impact of finding what is left of you and
dealing with the sudden trauma of you not being there, especially for a
parent. Are you sure your pain is greater than that? I completely understand
if suicide seems like the only viable option right now but speaking as someone
who has been there I can only say give yourself some time and space and don't
do anything rash.

------
DanBC
Threads like these are valuable research for me. We talk about being
understanding of mental illness; of the need to destigmatise mental health
problems to allow people to seek help and so on.

But then a thread like this will pop up. There are many useful, sincere, posts
with really good advice. And then there are a few bafflingly bad, almost
hateful, confused, ignorant (almost to the point of bigotry) posts.

These threads certainly help me understand why people do not disclose mental
health problems to employers.

------
Jiro555
If you think dating a girl will solve your depression problems. You are very
mistaken. Your life should not be dependent on if you are in a relationship or
not. Don't misunderstand I'm not saying looking for relationships is bad.
Trying to burden your spouse with your entire existence (meaning I would fall
into depression or die if I am not in a relationship) will always ware out
that person and most of the time that relationship will end unless they are
also co-dependent on you( I won't get into that sort of relationship).

First, find confidence in yourself and find meaning in your existence in your
OWN eyes (not your kids,not your friends, not your spouse, not your
parents,not anyone but yourself).

Then execute this reason for your existence even if it's just one small thing
(I like to go workout, I like to hang out with friends, I believe in
_religion,sport,hobby_ ). Sometimes it's good to place your existence on
something that is not like an old bridge about to break but something that is
strong, and sturdy

If you find someone along the way then good for you.

------
matheusbn
Maybe no one of us will understand your pain completely, but please don't kill
yourself.

Start looking around, if you are not satisfied with your life at this moment,
then why you don't try something different?

You talked about pull the plug, instead of taking this route, which would be
your end. Why not trying something that could be a new start in your life?

Stop with negative thinking, and try to figure out a solution to keep with us.

Matheus.

------
nnq
This is probably useless to anyone else, but this is an idea that popped into
my head once when feeling suicidal: _" if these is really the ultimate
reality, and not a simulation, and since I have no reasons to believe that
reality is not "ultimately" real, then suicide is simply something I'm not
allowed to do! even if I reduce anything to pure selfishness, I simply cannot
let the ideas in my head die, I am responsible for them! I must help them
spread, I must help them develop, because they might completely change the
world for the better! and no matter how small the chance of one of my ideas
significantly changing the world, and of one of these ideas not being in other
people's heads too, this chance simply cannot be taken... I cannot risk
killing an idea that could change the future of the entire universe!"_

...I know, it's probably one of the most narcissistic things you've ever
heard, but as even Dalai Lama said: (paraphrasing) one must be able to love
himself in order to be able to love others.

------
usaukdev
As many people have said here I would definitely recommend travelling /
backpacking. While not exactly the same situation, when I was 21 and living in
the UK, I was severely depressed with the way things were going in my life. I
had dropped out of University, working 9-5 in a call centre, earning slightly
above minimum wage and living with my parents.

One miserable day, I figured there had to be a different way. I bought a cheap
one way ticket I saw on sale into Buenos Aires and another out of Toronto. I
saved hardcore for 6 months after buying the flights and managed to scramble
enough together to do it. For me, it was the definitely the best medicine. I
had something to focus on and prepare for.

While on that trip I met my now wife and also learned a lot about myself in
the process. I ended up moving to the USA, graduating with my bachelors and
now I'm a software developer.

I think traveling in general especially to somewhere with a different culture
helps you to see yourself and situation in a completely different way and
opens up so many opportunities. Good luck.

------
codeshaman
It might sound outrageous, but you're in a good spot in life right now.

I've been there a couple of times, I've even had a suicide attempt at 17 and
ended up spending 2 months in the hospital with kidney failure. But each time
depression crept it on me again, I was better and better equipped to deal with
it. The last time I was depressed towards suicidal (about 2 years ago), two
things helped me: This book: [http://www.amazon.com/Feeling-Good-The-Mood-
Therapy/dp/03808...](http://www.amazon.com/Feeling-Good-The-Mood-
Therapy/dp/0380810336) And a low-dose hit of LSD, which practically sucked me
out of depression in one night (for the reasons outlined below). This was my
way, you might need to take a different path, but speaking from experience, it
is possible to get yourself out of this and then good things start to happen.

It will get better, just hold on.

The reason you're feeling like nothing works, is because you've forgotten what
you've came here for. What this life is about. It's not about how well you
write code, it's not about how many friends you have or how much money you
make or what car/phone you have. What is it about then ?

That's for you to find out. That's how the hit of LSD or psilocybin
(mushrooms) might help, but you need to know what and how you're doing it.

The other reason is the way you interpret reality and what you say to yourself
every day. Details about this are in the book.

And some other ideas:

Stop everything, take a vacation and go on a trip. It's summer, go to a
festival in the mountains or south to the sea, visit Paris or Barcelona or go
to India. Do something you've always wanted to, but never had the time or
resources to accomplish.

~~~
xamebax
> That's how the hit of LSD or psilocybin (mushrooms) might help, but you need
> to know what and how you're doing it.

I figured out your LSD therapy was a form of self-help, but as someone who is
under constant, long-term care of a psychiatrist, I have been told more than
once that in the case of depression drugs and habitual alcohol intake are a
no-go. LSD is especially dangerous. Please don't advise suicidal and mentally
ill people to solve their problems with drugs.

And finally, depressed people don't need advice, they need patience,
understanding and someone who is able to listen to them.

~~~
codeshaman
Your psychiatrist might be uninformed or maybe what he means is not to indulge
in drugs as a way to escape reality (which I agree with).

Psychedelics, when taken in a safe setting and with the right goals (eg. as a
therapy aid, not recreationally) can be extremely efficient for treating
depression and all sorts of emotional issues.

There's a lot of literature and articles on the subject, for instance:
[http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2014/03/12/using-psilocybin-
mag...](http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2014/03/12/using-psilocybin-magic-
mushrooms-to-treat-depression/)

As as a side note, consider that psychiatrists are not gods and they know what
they learned. In fact, I bet it would be detrimental for the whole industry if
you could treat your mental issues in one or two settings and not use
expensive psychiatric drugs for years.

~~~
xamebax
> Your psychiatrist might be uninformed or maybe what he means

I think I am able to judge the competence of the doctor I am using, and, as
their patient, determine the value their opinion better than a person on HN
that happens to read a lot on the Internet and quotes an article with gaps in
logic and no scientific proof that mushrooms actually help cure mental illness
in people.

> In fact, I bet it would be detrimental for the whole industry if you could
> treat your mental issues in one or two settings and not use expensive
> psychiatric drugs for years.

Yeah, I bet it's the same with diabetes and cancer.

------
mimicoctopus2
In short -- quit the f __king job right away, Sir !

Why? You seem to like logic but continuing in this job is making you
incoherent. Look at the following two statements:

1: "I find myself alone in a flat full of boxes no longer having a purpose"

2: "The loneliness of being unemployed worries me"

That doesn't sound very logical. Loneliness is always measured in absolute
terms. You're either lonely or you're not. Since you are (having used the word
4 times in that post), why worry about an empty transition? Specially when it
can change things for better.

Now let me give you a couple of reasons to live for, even if you think your
life currently doesn't have any meaning.

1) Shit happens ! That's the most ugly and the most beautiful thing about
human life. It doesn't let you be absolutely sure about anything. All you can
do is just play your best game or sometimes even just watch yourself being
thrown around. Now I agree that life can be a total bitch sometimes and not
give us a break at all but that's what you signed up for. buddy! The choices
you've made have gotten you at this point but you're still the one holding the
reins. Just turn the damn horse around.

2: Death is boring ..while life is full of possibilities. Somebody here
suggested trying the Milky Way at night in the middle of a desert. I'll bet
that's something you don't wanna die without seeing it in real at least once.
And there're a thousand other things you'll not be able to stop yourself from
fantasizing about. Human connections do feel like everything but they just
can't be everything there is. There's obviously so much more going on. Be
patient, give it more time and it'll turn it's good side to you too.

3: Being -- Imagine the day your mother gave birth to you. Your parents must
have been the proudest people in London that day. Imagine your parents holding
you in their hands, a long montage of all the happy memories must have ran
through their heads in a second--the things they're about to experience while
raising you, watching you grow, succeed, fail and then learn stuff from it and
much later become a man of the family some day. That's all still true, dude.
Don't take this away from them and don't take this away from yourself when you
still have a chance of making this a happy ending. May be even happier than a
Bollywood movie ending. :)

------
strictfp
Startups are a bitch, especially if it isn't your own. You are essentially
sacrificing your quality of life for someone elses dream. I was in a similar
situation to yours, minus the suicidal part, but still really bad not going
out for days.

It was impossible for me to listen to other advice at that stage, so I don't
know how mine can help here. But for what it's worth I can at least tell you
how I llook upon it now:

I was no longer following my dreams. That's it. Consequences were that I was
not happy, had no self-motivation and felt like life was useless.

My tip to you is to thing really really hard every day about what you used to
dream of and try to lure those thoughts back. One you catch a glimpse, steer
in that direction. Take control over your life. Make it your own again. That
is what saved me and made me into what I am today: I now know what I want and
am therefore pleasant company. I am no longer directionless ("spineless").

------
arbitrary
I feel for you because I understand how killing heartbreaks are. But, please,
do not take a negative decision to end your life when you are feeling low. Get
help. Reach out to your family, your friends from school, college. Anyone,
whom you can speak your heart out with. Even your room mate would do. It will
make you feel a lot better. Take a vacation. Go to places you wanted to go
before. Look at the positive side of your life. A wonderful life you have in
comparison with those millions who have nothing to eat and no future.

Strictly, stop being alone. Stop being in the company of those who make you
feel sad. And stop your negative thoughts as many times as they come back.

No need to about talk this at work. Often, people aren't 100% productive at
work, and everyone adjusts. Co-workers/employers seldom complain.

Connect with others as much as possible. If you have no one to talk to, you
can contact me. I will be happy to be help.

------
facepalm
I also recommend therapy. However, this thought also helped me: we will die
anyway, why hasten it? Compared to the aeons of being dead, what are couple of
years in emotional pain? It's just a blink of an eye, really - not point in
spending energy on making that time even shorter.

I also wonder whether the only honest method for suicide (because of
depression) would be to starve to death - prove to yourself that you really
don't care about anything anymore. Yes I know some people actually starve to
death (although I am not sure it's because of depression), and it might sound
callous, but those thoughts helped me.

Also, if you really don't have anything to lose, thing about all the things
you could do. However, I'd recommend against base jumping (it's just
statistical suicide), but I mean, do something wild or crazy (not life
threatening).

~~~
LaikaF
Dehydration would be quicker.

~~~
facepalm
That would be acceptable as well. (Edit: let's say with a water bottle within
reach).

------
PerfectElement
I've seen some people in this situation finding purpose in life by helping
others.

A very close friend of mine battled with depression for years. After watching
Earthlings and realizing how horrible it is to be an animal in this day and
age, she made it her mission to do whatever she could to help them. Today she
is a very active member of a project that's been estimated to save tens of
thousands of animals per year (mostly by educating people about the
consequences of their actions).

She tells me that knowing she's making a difference is what keeps her going
and offing herself is not an option anymore, because it would be like
abandoning those terrified animals inside slaughterhouses. And I noticed that
her self-esteem has improved and that she spends more time improving herself,
so she can be more effective in her mission.

------
ahruygt
Reaching out was the best thing you could have done. I know, in my case, I did
have to quit my job, drive around the country for a month, and work through a
lot of emotions for a while before I could be where I am now. And I know the
anvil will come back. Depression is a reminder that your life a fragile,
beautiful thing, and that you are in control of how you want to live it.

I'm not saying depression is "all in your head". It is by far one of the
hardest things to go through. But there are so many people around you who want
to share stories, help you through it, and be there with you. I recognized
myself in your post, and I'm here now, writing to encourage you to keep
talking, make changes in your life, and that it's ok to be afraid, to cry, to
want to go home.

But you CAN get through this.

Love.

------
rowyourboat
I've been there. Go get help now. And when the worst is over, you might have
to make some different choices.

I struggled for longer than I thought, I believe that I only recently truly
emerged from depression, long after I first considered myself healed.

Light, exercise, socialization and time to unwind are critical for me. I used
to "work hard, party hard" and then crash. I learnt that I need * Regular
exercise, preferably outside * Decent exposure to sunlight, a bright full-
spectrum lamp in winter * The right amount of social interaction, not so much
that it drains me, but enough that I do not feel lonely

And I learnt the hard way that a job which does not allow me to do the above
on a regular basis (for example by requiring frequent and extended trips) is
dangerous.

------
saukrates
Please consider contacting CALM as well as Samaritans to connect with people
whose life experience may be similar to yours:

Calm: 0800 585858, www.thecalmzone.net - Campaign Against Living Miserably
Help and support for young men aged 15-35 on issues which include depression
and suicide.

------
semerda
Sorry to hear the sad story. But there is always hope.

Start taking 5000 UI vitamin D daily and buy 10K LUX lamp which you should use
for 1 hour a day minimum. London is a gloomy city, overcast most of the time
(from what I remember). Most of us are Vitamin D deficient (dwelling all day)
and lack at least 1 hour of direct sun light. This affects our mood (leads to
SAD) and spirals into depression. Get a blood test to confirm vitamin D
deficiency if you need the additional data / motivation.

Before making any major decisions like quitting jobs or similar address your
body's biological needs to balance it out. And then when in good spirit and
mind make the right decision.

------
renkai
I've been there. You can and will get through this. Make a commitment to
getting better, starting now. Take small steps and don't beat yourself up if
you fall back a little sometimes. My best to you!

------
aianus
Quit your job and go cross some things off your bucket list.

It sounds like you have a lot of savings that aren't going to do you any good
if you're dead so start blowing it until you're happy again.

------
zacinbusiness
Take some time off. Decompress. Start up a conversation with a random pretty
girl in Hyde Park. Look around and see the happy people and try to capture
some of their energy. If you still feel horrible, please seek professional
help. No job is worth that level of stress, and if it's hurting you then you
just need to cut your losses and find something and someone that makes you
happy.

------
stopachka
I feel you man. There's 2 things you might want to consider

1 - Losing your largest connection and current love sucks 2 - Programming is
inherently lonely.

Why not go on a mini vacation of sorts? I don't think there's that much
socialization out there for you by staying, but you could travel, join some
dancing classes, reconnect with family. There's a lot of fun in that

------
sanowski
I am in London, work in tech, and have some volunteer experience helping in
this area. happy to meet up if you want to chat.

------
hipsterrific
When I was 15 I started having major mood shifts and quickly realized that I
have a personality disorder (I'm manic and suffer from bouts of mania,
thankfully hypomania). I've contemplated suicide before, while I never got
into divying up percentages here are somethings I realized:

\- It's ultimately illogical and selfish. I got into computers because I loved
solving problems and I had a problem. The problem was that I couldn't solve my
problem...at least not on my own, and not yet on my own.

\- I've had no less than three panic episodes and emotional breakdowns where I
would weep uncontrollably for hours. This is typically the culmination of an
intense sadness, loneliness, and apathy.

I'm 34 years old and am still battling manic-depressiveness. Still waking up
feeling like I got punched in the face, there are days I write shoddy code,
and there are days where I do get feelings of suicide. But the reason why I
never acted upon it is because there's always the light at the end of the
tunnel...the issue isn't if there is a light, the question is when will the
light come about. And yes, it does show...for me, it took a while but it came
and it came beautifully.

For starters, I targeted behavior that I knew was self-destructive. I began
practicing religion again (or whatever you're into), I began practicing
martial arts - going to the gym was, like you said, a distraction. Martial
arts is a community workout, everyone participates and you can't help but
build friends. Since I'm a practicing Christian, I found a church and began
meeting people there. In short, I looked at self-destructive tendencies and
reversed it. Because of my introversion, I simply created borders and notified
people that, sometimes, I like to be alone. However, I made sure to be around
non-technology people (which gets me out of thinking about work) and I like to
find people who are eccentric and outgoing (extroverts, especially).

Even small changes that I've implemented in my life have made huge impacts. I
forced myself to be less shy, I would gladly pay for a friend's dinner if it
meant not eating alone, and I got better at planning outings because I know
that it's easy to slip into apathy and depression. So I surround myself with
people, build trust, and create lasting friendships.

You honestly can't quit your job just now. First you need to build a support
system before you do that. Believe me, there's hope, there's always hope.

------
prateek_mir
ofcourse suicide is illogical !

And since you are a logical person, here's a (partly) logical advice - Take a
break. Go on a vacation, or even better, go on exploring. Its highly likely
that you'll gain new perspective (followed by seeing new opportunities, and
new interest).

Don't leave the job unless you have a better option.

~~~
avz
I disagree that suicide is illogical. There is nothing logical about a desire
to continue existing. Logic simply has no bearing on such decisions.

This is why irrational drives are essential. Down there at the bottom of
whatever logical structure you have built sits an irrational longing, desire
or passion which keeps you going. For the OP it was a family and a drive for
successful reproduction. It can be other things, too. Without a drive like
this giving you a purpose, logic won't prevent you from self-destruction.

~~~
prateek_mir
I am sorry if it came across in a wrong way,

I agree that what drives us is a desire/passion seated deep within ourselves,
but I wouldn't say it is irrational. Also, exposure to new environment can
very well influence it.

That is the context in which I called it an 'illogical' option, as it would be
more logical to explore other options, gains new experiences before committing
oneself to the option of suicide, the option which is pretty much an end of
road in itself.

While on the other hand, taking other road can kindle some new desire, and
help give a new meaning to one's life, or give new perspectives, ultimately
enabling one to achieve the original longings.

------
Stubbs
YOU NEED TO GO AND SEE YOUR GP ... RIGHT NOW.

Please, go and see them, tell them what you just told us and they will help
you.

------
meapix
choose one of the poorest country in the world and take a week from your job
to visit, it'll open your mind. You will see how people manage to live in
difficult times. Don't stay in a hotel room. You will come back and will not
have time to even think about suicide.

~~~
xamebax
That's disgusting.

~~~
kelvin0
Why?

------
gdonelli
Please please find a therapist. Give it a try. If one doesn't feel good move
on to the next. It took me 6 attempts when I was depress to find someone I
felt good with.

PS The problems you have are not unique to you, life is tough at times. You
will come out as a better person in the end

------
d3am0nc0de
Changing cities, changing the people i was hanging out/living with (i was not
enjoying their company) helped me a lot. I was "hanging out" with them,
because i was living with them. Packed all my bag(s) and headed out.

My next aim is to earn enough money to change countries.

------
youarenotalone
Dear yla92,

Apart from being in London, you could be telling my story. I am a 43 year web
developer, I have suffered from major depression for most of my life and I
have often thought about killing myself. For far too many years, I was utterly
miserable and assumed that I was just sad the way some people are blonde and
some people are tall; it was just part of who I was and could not be changed.
It took a long time for me to realise and accept that I was not inherently
fucked but that I was suffering from a condition that distorted my perceptions
of myself and that made me want to kill myself. Part of what made it hard for
me to seek help was that I did not think I deserved it. We were well off when
I was growing up (both my parents are doctors), I have all my limbs, I am
white, straight and male and not subject to persecution on grounds of race,
gender or sexuality, I do not suffer from a physical condition or disease. I
felt that I did not have a right to help because of the advantages I had had
growing up and what right did I have to feel like crap when I objectively had
it so good? I mention this because you mention your opportunities in life.
This does not invalidate what you feel in the slightest. I think that talking
to someone -- Samaritans or someone else -- is crucial. I wish I had sought
help earlier than I did. I would have wasted so much less time. It took me a
couple of tries to find a therapist who worked for me but it has helped no
end.

How do you break it to your boss and colleagues? Who says you have to? If you
had cancer, kidney failure or one of any number of physical conditions that
required time off work for treatment, would you be required to tell your co-
workers about it or would be a matter of utter confidentiality? Would your
reputation be marred if you needed to take time off for dialysis? I am well
aware of the stigma around mental health and depression but that should not be
a barrier to getting help. It is possible to get help and still be respected
by those around you.
([http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/West_Australian_Premier_Geoff_Ga...](http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/West_Australian_Premier_Geoff_Gallop_resigns)).
If there are people at work who you can confide in, I would suggest reaching
out to them. If you can afford to take time off, I would suggest considering
it.

Know that you are not alone. As you suggested, there does seem to be a
correlation between developers and depression. We are many. This sounds like a
truly dark time for you. It will get better. Don't do anything permanent to
fix what is a transient situation. Kia kaha, brother. Stand strong.

------
xlayn
if it's true that you may be ready to pull the trigger on your decision and
once you are completely true you will be on a curious position, you in that
precise moment are free, as it doesn't matter (as it was going to end anyway)
it is a good moment to go see the world, sell your stuff, try all those things
you never tried, you are free of worries and chains. in that precise moment
you are free to start something else. I believe life has no purpose but as
thinking beings we need one and life it's about finding it and fulfilling it.
Hope you find it.

------
jhki
Hey, you need to get treatment for depression. Been there, done that.

You obviously have a lot of things going for yourself, so you're absolutely
right about anything else being illogical. It will pass. All the best!

------
oakaz
Here is my recommendation; take a trip to some countries that you have never
visited. Highly recommended. Istanbul, Cario, Tblisi, spend the money on
pleasing yourself instead of family.

------
_nullandnull_
A year ago someone contacted me about depression. Here is my response.
Hopefully it will be helpful.

[http://pastebin.com/McPTg0Qg](http://pastebin.com/McPTg0Qg)

------
blencdr
I had quite the same story...

The thing that took me out of that state was to force myself to have a goal,
and make everything possible to reach it.

Time heals the injuries. That's a cliché, but that's true.

------
iterationx
Canyon of Despair, Hope, and Meaning
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF66cJDm9r8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF66cJDm9r8)

------
codeape
Perhaps you should change careers? Get a job where you interact with people in
a positive way - for instance become a teacher, work in a kindergarden or
similar.

~~~
xamebax
Big changes are in general a bad idea when it comes to people struggling with
clinical depression. Developing a healthy daily rhythm (sleep, food,
exercise), dropping drugs and limiting alcohol intake are the first lifestyle
changes a depressed person should make.

And don't forget depression is an illness. Medical help is a must. There's no
healing without medical help.

------
baggiobanglio
For those who don't like reading long posts in pastebin:
[http://hiatt.us/s5x4Qc](http://hiatt.us/s5x4Qc)

------
reinier_s4g
I would recommend you to grab your saved money, get a plane to south america
and try Ayahuasca in the amazonian jungle, you will find purpose.

~~~
AnimalMuppet
Suicide is not the answer, but drugs aren't, either.

~~~
reinier_s4g
"drugs" ....hmmm... I assume you haven't done your homework about Ayahuasca.
Shamans in south-america call it "the medicine", and the Ayahuasca ceremony is
a very serious one. You can search for studies and stories (all over the
internet), the reported results are usually far more helpful than any other
traditional treatment. We use "drugs" every day, it is just a matter of using
the right one for the right reason.

~~~
AnimalMuppet
Sure, I know all that. It's a ceremony, and there are shamans. _And_ it's a
hallucinogenic drug. There are people who claim it's helpful; there are people
who say the same about meth.

~~~
reinier_s4g
hehe, ok ok, now you are comparing meth with DMT, awesome, LOL

------
merrua
Can we rename this link? Its been proved that talking about this encourages
it. "Depressed" would be less harmful.

------
Bangladesh1
Whatever the situation is, one one should decide to suicide rather he/she
should find new thing in life to live.

------
Simulacra
Can someone please shed light on whom DHH is? I'm reminded at this moment of
Bill Zeller, RIP.

------
ExxKA
Hey!

Im a JS/NodeJS Dev in London. Let me buy you a pint. Im ExxKA on freenode
(IRC)

------
postit
You should definitely move to Rio de Janeiro.

------
metagen
Wanna make a startup with me man?

------
thaumaturgy
On my way out the door, a handful of quick thoughts:

1\. Most importantly, you're _not_ a broken person. This is the sort of
thinking about mental problems that has to stop. If somebody had the flu, you
wouldn't refer to them as "broken". Being depressed, even suicidal, shouldn't
be a factor in how employable you are. At the moment, you're not making full
use of your talents, but that happens to everyone sometimes.

2\. You've recently had some major disruption in your life, and it sounds like
you don't have anyone to talk to about it. You refer to your girlfriend as
your identity; that can make the end of the relationship especially brutal.
This is why it's so important to have a sense of self, an identity all your
own, before getting into a serious relationship.

3\. Most people are not equipped to deal with someone who's depressed or
suicidal, or even having an anxiety attack or any number of other mental
illnesses. Don't let your experience with your ex-colleague make you give up
on talking to people. Talk to people about it. Use your best judgement.

4\. This is why therapists exist. They are trained to have conversations like
this and to help you sort things out. _However_ , finding a therapist is a lot
like finding a romantic partner -- it can be discouraging and it can take a
lot of work before you find someone that's compatible.

5\. Depression (and other mental illnesses) and problems with sleep seem to be
correlated. And, the middle of the night, when everything's quiet and your
mind is racing and there's nobody to talk to is a bad time for people with
depression. So, put some serious effort into getting good sleep for a while --
even if it means going to the market and picking up some over-the-counter
sleep aids. Go to bed early, pass out, if at all possible sleep in without an
alarm.

6\. DO THINGS. Depression can spiral out of control when you're locked away in
your home, or just making quick errand runs. I can't say whether or not you
should quit your job. Maybe the job isn't what you should be doing right now;
maybe it is exactly what you need to be doing right now. I dunno. But, you
need to be going out and doing things. New things are great things to do. If
you have some savings, now might be a good time to spend some of it. It's your
rainy day fund, and it's raining right now. You're worth spending money on. Go
somewhere you've wanted to go. Try something new. Get on meetup and float
through some new groups. Re-connect with old friends or family you haven't
talked to in a while. You never know when something that you experience might
change the way you feel about yourself and the world around you.

7\. Depression, in my completely unprofessional opinion, is primarily a fault
with the way a person perceives themselves and the world around them. It's
like a form of mental blindness: everything sucks, I suck, I'm a bad person,
I'm worthless, the world would be better off without me, life is too hard,
etc. These things are all _wrong_. If you can alter the way you see yourself
and the way you see the world around you, your depression will improve. But
it's hard to do that by sitting in front of your computer.

8\. You sound young. I don't mean that to sound dismissive; rather, there's a
lot more life ahead of you, and you'll be missing out on it. You've got at
least another 10 years to meet someone great and raise that family you want;
10 years is a long time. (At least until you get to around 50 or so, then 10
years seems to go by pretty quick.) You have no idea who you might meet or
what will happen in the next 10 years.

9\. Don't worry too much about your reputation. For breaking news: just say,
"I've been struggling with some pretty severe depression recently. I'm working
on it." Really straightforward, matter-of-fact. Nothing to be ashamed of.
Having frank conversations about it is a heck of a lot better than waking up
dead one day.

Your post got a pile of comments. People you've never met before care enough
to try to reach out to you. That's a good start. Go from there.

------
delinquentme
www.reddit.com/r/suicidewatch

------
notastartup
OP if you can read this please consider following:

\- Do not do it. You are seeking a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
It is illogical.

\- Find some relief in marijuana. It will definitely take the edge off.
Suicidal thoughts will be gone in the first few tokes.

\- Leave the job or take a vacation, and then leave it. The job is not helping
you at all, and it looks like the founder is a narcisstic insensitive person.
It also sounds like they are not very good colleagues at all. Stay away from
those energy black holes.

\- What's done is done. It's time for you to leave the past. What's more,
there's a whole array of other places in the world you can work. I can name a
few:

Vancouver, BC: Pro: Clean environment. Great medical marijuana. Cons: People
are pretentious, high living costs.

California: Pro: Thriving startup scene. Great medical marijuana. Cons: I
don't know because I never been there. Thugs? idk.

Thailand: Pro: Cheap living cost.Not sure about smoking weed there. Cons:
Might be dangerous for foreigners. I never been there, so I don't know.

South Korea: Pro: Moderately cheap. Safe. You might end up teaching english.
Cons: People's hospitality varies region to region. I have never worked there.

Best of luck mate, and remember, there are many many other options out there.

------
michaelochurch
Speaking directly to OP.

A. Culture shock. I'm guessing that English isn't your first language. You're
in London, an expensive and hard city. _It 's normal._ (Hell, I had culture
shock moving to New York City when I grew up in Pennsylvania, 3 hours away.
I'd been there before and I still got it.) Some of my friends, who've moved
from China or India to NYC or SF, got it a lot worse. It's _really fucking
difficult_ but it does get better. Yes, there'll be lonely nights and
financial hardships, but the rewards are real as well.

B. Judgment of character. I'm guessing that this relationship (with the girl
who dumped you) was one that meant more to you than to hear. That's normal,
too, when you're starting out. I was an awful judge of character in my early
20s: bad relationships and even worse startups. It does get better. You learn
the warning signs through trial and error (mostly error) and, one day, you're
suddenly badass.

C. I'm guessing you're around 22-25. That's way too early to be thinking about
having kids if you're living in a major city. I have friends who are MD-level
at banks and hedge funds and started in their late 30s or early 40s. That's
too late if you ask me, but it's what the game demands. Get your career in
order first. You're not ready for kids.

D. Get yourself into therapy. No excuses. There's nothing to be ashamed of.
The culture shock alone (which is difficult for completely normal people) is
something you can use help with. It's really useful to have one person in your
life who you see consistently, but that you have no other emotional
relationship with. (Therapy isn't "paying someone to be your friend". It's
paying someone who knows mental health issues and not part of your personal
life to spend _consistent_ time with you.) And if you have a biological
illness then it's not your fault, and not something to be ashamed of, but you
need to take responsibility for it. (The good news is that, for most people,
treatment works.)

E. I'm bipolar, probably 85-90% remitted compared to my worst (ages 19-26).
When I used to have suicidal thoughts, I looked at the people who wronged me
and thought, "are these mediocre assclowns really worth _my_ death?" The
answer was always a resounding "no". So should yours be. Yes, I'm sure that
some people have treated you badly. If you take enough risks (and if you're
not taking risks, you're doing it wrong) you will encounter people who will
harm you, often for no reason at all. They aren't worth your death. They
aren't even worth you being unhappy. Just say "fuck him" and get on with your
life.

------
voho
Suicide is a mortal sin. Try live somewhere else. Australia, Africa, Bulgaria,
Island, New Zealand... and do not be a crybaby.

~~~
comrh
Shut it you demeaning, ignorant, jerk. Not everyone believes in your
definition of "mortal sin" or even the concept and telling someone struggling
with something so profound to "not be a crybaby" is one of the most rage
inducing, unhelpful and ridiculous things I've ever heard.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

~~~
imdsm
Don't feed the trolls.

~~~
comrh
I know, I know. This subject is just one that gives me such a deep visceral
reaction I couldn't help myself. _sigh_

------
desyntax
I would like to recommend you to read Qur'an.

------
nomedeplume
For a heterosexual man, a woman can't be your identity. Most heterosexual
women need a partner with their own identity, one that she can merge with (she
may temporarily settle for a partner who functions with her as their identity,
but then she'll be unhappy, leave, cheat, or fantasize about cheating, or just
be using the partner for other reasons). This is tough advice to swallow
especially if your woman is your identity or you can't imagine a woman not
being your identity, but it's something I've learned[1].

Find a good identity for yourself and create it. Make it something that you
can get good at reasonably quickly so you become socially validated within it,
because we are happy when our identity is socially validated (i.e., others
recognize that we are what we think we are), or you will be facing an
unreasonably miserable uphill battle. And "internal validation" is the product
of repeated and varied social validation, and it does have a decay curve.

Example of a bad identity to make : "I am really good at soccer!" (if you are
bad at soccer, it will take you 10 years before you feel validated and
comfortable in your identity)

Example of a good identity to make : "I am a great programmer and a leader in
the programming community!" This is easier for you to get better at and it's
well within the realm of your control.. for example, you can develop expertise
in a niche area, learn basic presentation skills, and start presenting at
local meetups.. probably within 6 months of focused effort after work.

Traits for a good identity: reasonably quick learning curve to socially-valued
competence. Even better if it is something that has future payouts. You can
get a "bad boy" identity if you want to e.g. buy a motorcycle, get a neck
tattoo, and physically street fight people who don't submit to your dominance,
but it also bears very real cost. Those costs, btw, are why bad boys are
attractive - it's a serious energy expenditure.

We are generally happy when our identity is socially validated. People with
rarely-validated identities are quite susceptible to manipulation; simply by
validating their identity... they will begin to crave you.

Your partner can't be your identity. Even if it's just because that makes it a
single point of failure for your happiness.

[1] Email in profile if you want to discuss this issue specifically. I have an
over developed sense of empathy here, but it's an extraordinarily private
matter and helping others may bring me some closure.

~~~
etjossem

      > "For a heterosexual man, a woman can't be your identity."
      > "Most heterosexual women need a partner with their own identity, 
        one that she can merge with."
    

Read those back and forth until you see the double standard.

We can argue all day about whether it's healthy to depend on a partner to
complete your identity. But you don't get to speak for what "most heterosexual
women need," especially if you're a guy. None of us are on the set of _Mad
Men_ ; we're in the real world, and what we say matters.

I might not have my 500 karma yet, but I know when to downvote.

~~~
nomedeplume
"We are in the real world and what we say matters". That was the logic that
ousted Larry Summers from Harvard. There is a double standard. Men and women
have different brains and different emotional needs. Lesbian brains can be
more similar to mens'.

And how dare the castrated men like you allow the feminist coalition to suffer
any setback driven by logical argument. Good on you.

~~~
etjossem
Take a look at what you wrote. You're not attempting to explain a difference
in the standard deviation of male and female test scores - backed by data - in
an exercise of positive scholarship. Putting aside the hilariously sexist
conclusions other people drew from that data, you are not Larry Summers.

All you're doing is giving normative advice about what men and women's
identities _should_ look like. You're claiming that women will always be
unhappy with partners whose identities depend on their partner, and you're
also saying that it's unacceptable for men to do that. There are no logical
arguments being made here. It's pure misogyny.

And maybe I'm the only one in this thread who has the balls to call you out.
Newsflash: men can think women are people too. Now go read about the
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test)
\- it's fascinating.

~~~
nomedeplume
(1) This is the most vacuous and wrong thing you wrote

> men can think women are people too

Implying that I do not think that women have agency.. What a ridiculous and
exacerbated claim.

(2) All you're doing is giving normative advice about what men and women's
identities should look like.

Not whatsoever... are you kidding me... it is descriptive analysis; neither
normative nor prescriptive

(3) You're claiming that women will always be unhappy with partners whose
identities depend on their partner, and you're also saying that it's
unacceptable for men to do that.

No, not always. First off, heterosexual women. And I'm not saying
unacceptable; quite the opposite. Read the original post I made; think.

And for happiness and identity, I just said, there's a single point of
failure. I mean.. we're on a hacking forum, I thought that people would grasp
the metaphor.

And as in industry and academia, I think it is better to design a system (the
psyche) that functions for happiness. Zen.

(4) There are no logical arguments being made here. It's pure misogyny.

That's totally ridiculous, I'm not a misogynist, I resent being called that,
and I absolutely do not categorically hate women. This entire thing implies
the possibility of a sexist expression and display.. from you.

I may vaguely fear women as they are mirrors of nature. Read the post I made.
But I do not hate them: I have too much respect for their value for that.
Anyway, generally in day to day life, I approach things on a situation by
situation basis. I don't have any hateful misogynist goal or agenda. Cui
prodest?

~~~
etjossem
> And for happiness and identity, I just said, there's a single point of
> failure. I mean.. we're on a hacking forum, I thought that people would
> grasp the metaphor.

I agree with you on this. Regardless of gender, it's probably not healthy to
have _all_ of your identity defined by your partner, for exactly the reason
you mention. See also:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codependency](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codependency).

But codependency can happen to all genders, and it's equally harmful for both
men and women. When we break that cycle and start defining ourselves by our
own free choices (rather than someone else's), it's immensely empowering. It's
called agency.

> Implying that I do not think that women have agency.. What a ridiculous and
> exacerbated claim.

> That's totally ridiculous, I'm not a misogynist, I resent being called that,
> and I absolutely do not categorically hate women.

 _Some stuff you wrote was misogyny_ , because it supported the idea that
heterosexual women (categorically) ought to be defined by someone else if they
want to be happy. The original comment claims an identity based on independent
choices is good/advisable for men, but not for women.

To be clear: I'm calling foul on that statement, not the person behind it. I
recognize that you can change your mind about it at any moment, and I also
recognize that you're more than one post on HN. I'm not going to slap a label
on you.

> Anyway, generally in day to day life, I approach things on a situation by
> situation basis.

Good. In the future, it's probably best to make this your advice up front,
rather than try to speak for what heterosexual women want as a whole.

