
A CRISPR first produces squid as clear as glass - apsec112
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02242-3
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ladberg
For anyone coming to the comments before reading the article: the squid is
already clear, they just removed some spots of pigment.

~~~
azernik
And the advantage here is that it's the start of development of a genetic-
modification toolkit (similar to that we already have for fruit flies and c
elegans and zebrafish) for using them as animal models. Much more complex of a
brain than any of the other animal models we usually use.

~~~
meowface
Isn't this a bit of a slippery slope? The better a model of a human brain you
experiment on, the closer you approach the ethics of performing the same
experiment on human embryos, infants, children, and adults (as they age). I
think this is already pretty close to the case for mice, but when you start
doing it to cephalopods, primates, and dolphins/orcas, you're really skirting
the line.

I wonder if there'll ever be a time where if we aren't comfortable with doing
something to human embryos (or other stages) in experiments, we also won't be
comfortable doing it to the animals closest to us on the intelligence and
awareness totem pole, and eventually perhaps any sentient animals at all (so
nearly all of them besides jellyfish, sponges, anemomes, and some other ocean
dwellers). This day feels inevitable to me, but I don't know whether it's 20
years or 200 years away.

~~~
VRay
We're still chopping up likely-sentient animals and eating them, so it's
probably a ways off..

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war1025
I believe I read this in the book Grandfather by Tom Brown [1] (could have
been somewhere else). The author was taught by an Apache elder about survival,
etc.

Part of that was learning how to track and hunt.

The first time he killed a deer, he was required to sneak up on the deer and
kill it with a knife. That way he would know the gravity of what he was doing.

He wrote that he cried for a good while afterwards.

I think that is a perspective more people should take with eating meat. To
know you are taking the life of a living, breathing thing to sustain your own
life.

I think it used to be a much more common view, but it's hard to view a chicken
nugget or a hamburger as an animal that lost its life to continue yours.

[1]
[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/434013.Grandfather](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/434013.Grandfather)

~~~
meowface
There's also the problem that for most people in developed countries, you
don't actually need to take a conscious life to sustain your life. It's a
luxury, like wearing fur.

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sradman
The paper _Highly Efficient Knockout of a Squid Pigmentation Gene_ [1]

> two key advances have made it possible to develop techniques for the genetic
> manipulation of squid. The first is the CRISPR-Cas9 system for targeted gene
> disruption, a largely species-agnostic method. The second is the sequencing
> of genomes for several cephalopod species.

The point is not a clear squid lacking chromatophores, a rather discomforting
thought, but creating a new animal model with knockout genes.

[1] [https://www.cell.com/current-
biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(20)...](https://www.cell.com/current-
biology/fulltext/S0960-9822\(20\)30985-4)

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watertom
When can we use CRISPR to address the mutation with the L-gulono-γ-lactone
oxidase gene (GLO; EC number 1.1.3.8) which controls the synthesize l-ascorbic
acid (vitamin C) in humans?

Is it possible with CRISPR? Can it be introduced in a person and have it
reverse the mutation?

Fixing this mutation might have the biggest impact on global human health, in
humans the GLO mutation only impact the synthesis of vitamin C, unlike in
other animals like primates, bats, guinea pigs and fish the mutation can't be
reversed because it impacts other systems.

~~~
dekhn
Is there a specific disease you're targeting, or are you trying to give
general humans abilities they don't already have? The latter is not being
considered at this point.

~~~
est31
It's both. No human has the ability to synthesize vitamin C in their own
bodies, leading to scurvy, unless you supplement vitamin C in your diet. Most
people eat enough vitamin C to not lead to scurvy. There is a disease that
would be eliminated, but it's preventable by watching out what you eat. Also,
usually it takes more than just the synthesis of the enzyme. It also needs to
be regulated, which requires the systems that regulate it to be around as well
(and work correctly). Neither producing too much of the enzyme, nor too little
is a good outcome.

So yeah, I think it's better to focus on other diseases first, that are more
serious and where a human carrier of the healthy variant of the gene already
walks among us, here on earth.

~~~
dekhn
I don't think this makes sense since the risk of attempting to add a phenotype
greatly outweighs the low cost of just taking vitamin C.

Even just producing the right amount of enzyme is a first-order approximation
to what actually has to be done to add a phenotype without side effects.

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chmaynard
Ira Flatow interviews two of the scientists on a Science Friday podcast:

[https://www.sciencefriday.com/segments/squid-gene-
editing/](https://www.sciencefriday.com/segments/squid-gene-editing/)

~~~
sradman
This is a great 17 minute high-level overview of the science. The breakthrough
is the tool/technique used to access the embryo without physically damaging
the egg. The glass-like embryo is a unique characteristic of this species, not
the knockout gene. This work is a proof of concept; this species does not
(yet) reproduce in captivity. Both scientists demonstrate a deep love for
cephalopods and for science. They also discuss the ethics surrounding
cephalopod research.

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dprophecyguy
As a learner, is it possible to self learn more about Gene Editing and these
things, and can these things can be learned in a hacker way without going
through a formal academic route ?

~~~
DrAwdeOccarim
Youtube is fantastic for this. What you'll find out is that once you
understand how DNA works (codons map to amino acids), and that amino acids
fold into specific 4D shapes that trap molecule A and mush it into molecule B
to make molecule C, the rest kind of falls into place.

~~~
bitdivision
4D shapes as in changing over time?

~~~
DrAwdeOccarim
Yes, exactly. It's really quite fascinating--everything just vibrates, like a
lot, all the time. The vibrations of some bits have frequencies that resonate
with the frequency of other bits. And when they sync up, they change their
frequency and then no longer resonate with each other. The whole universe is
basically a giant musical instrument and chemical reactions are just
wavelettes resonating with other things.

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throwaway743
Are its eyes messed up in the photo or is that normal?

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imvetri
They removed the dots in the eyes as well.

~~~
verroq
So it’s blind? Reminds me of the Invisible Man plot hole where the guy gets
turned invisible and thus his retinas also become transparent and therefore he
shouldn’t be able to see anything.

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harryf
So we're getting closer to RayFish Footwear
[https://www.rayfish.com/](https://www.rayfish.com/) \-
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVk_Vw1C7cs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVk_Vw1C7cs)

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raywu
IIRC it's a big deal because this is the first crack at cephalopod DNA - I
don't recall where I read this. Anyone has a source?

~~~
azernik
It's in the first sentence of the article: "...the first use of CRISPR in
cephalopods, a class of marine invertebrates."

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The_rationalist
Could this have been done on an adult squid??

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YayamiOmate
I assume not. I am pretty confidnet the whole purpose is for the cells to
never grow.

It works by editing cell information. If you let original cells divide there
will be more unedited cells. So the eariler in the development you apply
modification the more prononuced the effect. I think I read somewhere that
they could alter amount of pigmentation by timing application of treatment. So
that would fit.

It doesnt work by killing existing cells. Maybe it could work if old cells
died and new ones would be edited, so they could gradually replace original
ones but I guess its pretty hard to deliver gene editor to so many cells.

~~~
The_rationalist
Cells divide really slowly so if you could edit most cells in one day then
only a negligible amount of new cells would be unedited.

* I guess its pretty hard to deliver gene editor to so many cells* this is the breakthrough waiting CRISPR and impossible to find a great up to date scientific resource on the technical issues and on the path towards progress.

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scruffyherder
Remove the 4 year lifespan then things will get interesting

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pharke
Read Sheena 5 by Stephen Baxter, great short story.

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LargoLasskhyfv
I feel creeped out/put off about this. These are intelligent beings,
apparently limited only by their short lifespan. They communicate by
modulating the pigments into patterns. Now that has been taken away. Imagine
toasting some genes in a human embryo to the effect of lock in syndrome.
Crispy!

edit: I think this is a case for PETA to look into.

~~~
azernik
That's octopodes; squid are much less intelligent.

They're moving on next to much smaller (and hence even _less_ intelligent)
hummingbird bobtail squid.

~~~
sradman
My starting assumption is that octopus, cuttlefish, and squid have similar
intelligence levels. If chromatophore manipulation is correlated to cephalopod
intelligence then bobtail squid are small but smart.

My own anecdotal evidence is that juvenile cephalopods exhibit adult-level
intelligence which is a good reminder not to project mammalian behavior
assumptions on cephalopods.

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EGreg
There is a third squid in there, on the top right.

It is actually clear as glass! Wow

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Haleabus
Please do this to great White Sharks.

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Chris2048
invisible, glass-like sharks? no thanks.

Though at least if you got a limb bitten off, you could see in which shark it
resides.

