
Goals vs. Systems (2013) - vincelt
http://blog.dilbert.com/2013/11/18/goals-vs-systems/
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karimdag
I’ve thought (and experimented) about this for a while and here’s what I came
up with:

* Goals are better for the short-term (we’re talking days and weeks).

* Systems (naturally) are better for the long-term (months and years).

* The best way to system-ize something is to make it a habit.

* A system without an objective is useless and inefficient.

* Which to use ? It depends on your personality AND the task at hand.

* Defining an objective is paramount.

* Objective =/= goal. An objective is of the highest order, a goal is a part of an objective. E.g. Objective: Lose fat, goal: stop consuming sugar.

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deltron3030
Objectives are projections of a desired state at a certain moment in time imo.
Goals are the actual state at that moment in time. Stop consuming sugar
wouldn't be a goal, but goal oriented objective behavior (because you can
control/measure you sugar intake, materializing your objective this way). A
goal would be a certain amount of lost weight.

~~~
karimdag
The example I gave wasn’t a good one. I suggest something else: think of goals
as a “module”, it has a function that servers the main objective.

This idea of modules is also found in Dr Duckworth’s book: Grit.

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deltron3030
The way I see it, goals are the actual thing while objectives are diffuse
imaginations of something, or the zoomed out perspective. To get a clear
picture of something, you have to zoom in from the diffuse one first. You
define your goals after zooming in, because then it's clear what's reachable.

A hunter might have the objective to hunt down prey to satisfy his hunger. But
at the time he's leaving for hunting he doesn't know what's exactly out there,
he will define goals when he has gained a clear picture of the actual
environment. That's when he will decide what to hunt and how.

He could decide to abandon his home and become a nomad, following the prey and
have it always visible, and satisfy his main objective (hunting to eat) this
way. Is this what you mean with module?

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karimdag
> The way I see it, goals are the actual thing while objectives are diffuse
> imaginations of something, or the zoomed out perspective. To get a clear
> picture of something, you have to zoom in from the diffuse one first. You
> define your goals after zooming in, because then it's clear what's
> reachable.

This is exactly what I meant !

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znpy
A roommate once told me: «if you focus on results, you'll see no change. if
you focus on change, you'll see results»

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RayVR
The whole idea of ego depletion is controversial and according to this meta-
analysis, probably does not exist.

[https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/bjso.12236](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/bjso.12236)

~~~
natalyarostova
I haven't read the meta-analysis you linked, but based on my prior reading of
this topic, I'd suggest it's more correct to say "It probably has not been
measured." Whereas it could still exist, but just elude attempts to measure. I
also realize you can say this about anything, but ego depletion is one of
those topics where it may seem very likely to be true based on our own
experience as living humans, but where measuring its effect across a set of
humans is incredibly challenging.

~~~
asfasgasg
Your counterclaim can as easily be said of acupuncture, homeopathy,
mindfulness, etc. When a phenomenon that ought to be fairly straightforward to
measure defeats repeated attempts to measure it, it is at a minimum fair to
say that it probably doesn't exist.

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gaius
_By the way, it is only in the past few years that you could replace willpower
with knowledge about diet and exercise and get a good result. That’s because
much of what science told us in those realms was wrong. When I was a kid,
science told us to eat plenty of Wonder Bread_

So true. In the UK the government is wringing it’s hands about obesity,
introduced a sugar tax but the root cause is simple: it’s what was taught in
schools in Home Ec in the 80s and 90s! Eat more bread and potatoes you can
never have enough! But never touch fat, and only a little protein! Protein
will destroy your kidneys! Basically the exact opposite of what you should
do...

But rather than learning from that, they’re meddling again...

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tonyedgecombe
Even in the UK the food industry has too much influence over this stuff.

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aldoushuxley001
Great article and very sustainable way to make change. As willpower seems to
be a finite resource, substituting knowledge for willpower is a powerful &
sustainable strategy for changing habits.

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dharness
I highly recommend the book he is referencing here.

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_t94r
I have read it and made a summary.

Edit: read the summary below.

~~~
karimdag
How to fail at everything and still win big

Ways to figure out the truthfulness of a statement:

\- Personal experience

\- Have a smart friend.

\- Other people's experience.

\- Common sense

\- Science (stats and stuff)

\- Pattern (also, biases)

"Follow your passion" is a shitty advice.

Look at every failure as a learning experience. Think of it as pre-success.

Usually when you failure is up to your eyebrows it means that success is
hiding in plain sight.

Goal oriented people are losers. Suppose you've achieved your goal ? Then what
? And there goes circular reasoning.

Goal, in this context, is something that once achieved, it's gone.

The solution is being system oriented. In this context, it means doing
something everyday. A habit.

Successful people are usually people who failed 95% of the time. What made
them successful is a combination of hard work, luck, determination, brains and
good timing.

How do you know that the timing is good ? You can't know, you have to try.

"If you want to be successful, figure out the price and pay it" — something to
consider.

Stop wishing. Decide. Wishing starts at the head and stops there. Deciding
means taking action, making a plan.

Be (reasonably) selfish. Put your needs first.

You're either a simplifier or an optimizer. The former means that your plans
involve doing simple things; being satisfied when something is 80% good while
the latter involves doing things to a certain degree of excellence. Unless you
can control 90% of the variables in a situation, always err on the side of
simplicity.

Affirmation exercise: writing something X amount of time first thing in the
morning (making it like a self fulfilling prophecy).

Priorities, think of it as a target. The smaller, central circle is your
health, the bigger circle is economics and the biggest of all is
relationships. Health > Economics > Relationships. Always put your needs
first. Be selfish.

Do things you enjoy in order to maximize your energy.

If there's an opportunity but you don't have the required set of skills, say
yes then figure out a way to do it. Don't wait until you deem yourself ready.

Your job is to always be looking for a job because there's always something
better for you. Abundance mentality.

If you're not in a good mood, smile. Note: smiling make you more attractive to
others.

Sitting position affects your mood/energy.

Persistence, quitting is a step in the process of success. If something didn't
take off from the beginning it's highly unlikely that it'll succeed so there's
no need to be persistent and look like an idiot.

Success formula = every skill you acquire doubles your odds of success. Good +
Good > Excellent.

Résumé trick: each unnecessary word = $100.

Knowledge formula: the more you know, the more you can know.

Particular set of skills that should be acquired: Public speaking, psychology,
business writing, accounting, design, conversation, overcoming shyness (act it
out – fake it 'till you make it), good grammar, persuasion

Storytelling:

1\. Setup (start): keep it brief.

2\. Pattern: establish a pattern that the story will stir from.

3\. Foreshadowing: leaving some clues about where the story's going.

4\. Characters: fill in with some character traits/personality.

5\. Relatable: pick a story that the listeners will relate to.

6.The twist, plot twist (necessary)

Topics to avoid: food, dreams, tv, medical stuff.

Patterns, always be on the look for them. Covey's book:

1\. Be proactive (decide, don't wish)

2\. Take risks (not physical ones) – don't be afraid of embarrassment

3\. Always keep learning

Humor, it is important. Just be human and you'll do fine. Traps to avoid: over
complaining, mocking people (including yourself), puns and wordplay.

Affirmations, they help. Try them. E.g. "I, X, will be rich." (Include them in
your morning routine) You can write them, say them or just think them. Note:
for them to work, you have to have a 100% unambiguous want for them to happen.

Experts, if your gut feeling disagree with their assessment take it seriously.

Association programming, i.e. You are the average of the 5 people you speak
with the most.

Note: if you had to take only one thing from the book it’s this: Decide, don’t
wish. Be on the watch where the pendulum is shifting.

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codingdave
Like everything, a balance is needed. Systems without goals are how we end up
with enterprise bureaucracy and resistance to change.

~~~
swasheck
I think that it's a bit more nuanced than that. I think that we end up with
bureaucracy because goals are not aligned across silos (divisions, time, etc.)
and the systems that are implemented to achieve those goals overlap and create
redundancies and inefficiencies.

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voiper1
James Clear writes quite a bit about processes over goals, he has some great
stuff. [https://jamesclear.com/](https://jamesclear.com/)

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paulpauper
_My writing for the Wall Street Journal, along with my public practice on this
blog, attracted the attention of book publishers, and that attention turned
into a book deal. And the book deal generated speaking requests that are
embarrassingly lucrative. So the payday for blogging eventually arrived, but I
didn’t know in advance what path it would take. My blogging has kicked up
dozens of business opportunities over the past years, so it could have taken
any direction._

I wonder if a cartoon had anything to do with that

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ryanmarsh
Meta: I want to take a minute to thank the community (and likely the mods) for
maintaining a healthy discussion on this post in spite of the author's
controversial politics. I feel like we should be able to evaluate his other
ideas on their merits rather than devolving into a political fight.

Thank you.

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bdcravens
(2013)

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isxek
Previous submissions:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13462788](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13462788)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11767300](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11767300)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6873386](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6873386)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6922713](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6922713)

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teddyh
Available to everybody by clicking on the link labeled “past” at the top. I
don’t know why you chose to highlight those specific four submissions – only
one of those received any comments, and that one got a total of three
comments.

~~~
rtehfm
Not that it matters, but this was the submission that garnered, I believe, the
most traction.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6547912](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6547912)

On topic: I was just mentioned this book to a coworker last week. I highly
suggest Scott Adams' book How to Fail at Almost Anything and Still Win Big.

