
New X-ray technique images soft-tissue tumors clearer than MRI - hhs
https://newatlas.com/medical/first-x-ray-elastography-images/
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hinkley
From what I remember, MRI doesn't exist without some fairly sophisticated
signal processing. The teaser seems to be suggesting they're doing signal
processing on Xrays instead of just exposing photography plates (or do they
even do that anymore? Are they digital like cameras?)

Many many years ago I recall a project that looked at the tissue all around a
tumor, and mapped the refraction from many different angles. They took that
information and worked backward to find the exact angles to send radiotherapy
beams so that they would cross inside the tumor, reducing side effects. I
wonder if any of the principles are the same here.

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andbberger
Not sure exactly what signal processing you're referring to - MRI would not
work (would take prohibitively long) without compressed sensing. But I would
not consider that fairly sophisticated signal processing, it's in the
classical limit and uses a simple prior that k-space is sparse.

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mattkrause
You may be the first person I've ever seen use "simple" and "k-space" in such
close proximity.

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andbberger
... as opposed to a much more complicated prior, such as a natural tissue
model...

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mattkrause
Of course, but a) joke and b) if you haven't been exposed to it before--and in
many cases, even if you have--it can seem pretty daunting.

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kens
To summarize the research, the idea is to use X-rays like ultrasound:
visualizing the elastic properties of the target instead of the density, but
at higher resolution than ultrasound. They were able to create a 2-D image of
particles in a gel in the lab.

Keep in mind that this is physic research, not medical research. They show
that this imaging is possible. There are a bunch of difficult steps to making
this medically useful. First, it is currently 2-D, not 3-D. It also needs to
move from creating an image in the lab to a repeatable process, and then
turned into a medical equipment product.

TL;DR: This is a lab demonstration of a new imaging technique in a physics
journal. The title is entirely speculative. Abstract and paywalled paper here:
[https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.35848/1882-0786/ab7e06...](https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.35848/1882-0786/ab7e06/meta)

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prostheticvamp
Just throwing out there: US is 2D, X-ray is 2D, MRI is 2D slices, and CT is
also a series of 2D slices but you can reconstruct reasonable guesses at 3D
structures with it.

This being 2D doesn’t strike me as a huge drawback

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stilley2
A collection of 2D slices /is/ a 3D image. Modern CT and MRI are 3D
modalities.

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prostheticvamp
Reading one 2D slice at a time and calling it 3D is... not wrong. I don’t
think it’s right, either. But we are now splitting hairs and not adding value.

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sosilkj
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't X-rays generally much more dangerous than
an MRI? I would think that things like 7 tesla MRI technology would be the
future of medical imaging, not X-rays, if only for the fact that X-rays are
cancer-causing.

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TheSpiceIsLife
A chest x-ray is about 5x _less_ radiation exposure then a transatlantic
flight.[1]

1\. [https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ionising-
radiatio...](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ionising-radiation-
dose-comparisons/ionising-radiation-dose-comparisons)

~~~
sosilkj
I think that is an interesting comparison but I'm not sure it's really
applicable. A brain MRI can take up to 45 minutes or so. To be honest, I'm
doubtful you could image someone's entire brain in detail via X-ray (as the
article seems to imply) by using the sort of "one-and-done" X-ray normally
used to look for run-of-the-mill bronchial infections, etc.

~~~
klipt
Right, the 3D equivalent is a CT scan which is a much higher radiation dose
than a regular x-ray. On average every 1000 CT scans done causes one new case
of cancer.

~~~
stilley2
Source?

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tmcronn
Today I've learned that elastography is a field of medical imaging that
focuses on the stiffness or softness of tissues.

I might want to learn even more about it because I always have problems with
my tissues and doctors fail to help me.

~~~
hinkley
I'm hoping this is a step closer to being able to image connective tissues
too. But being able to diagnose muscle tears and such would also be pretty
helpful.

Hard to stay healthy when your range of motion is impaired.

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prostheticvamp
MRI and US already do. It’s just not often helpful, because damage doesn’t
need to be grossly visible and because we can’t do much for it regardless.

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Starkus
As someone that was shot in the neck and I have metal that cannot go through
an MRI machine... will this be my savior?

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cgh
We are all stuck at home and therefore you cannot just drop this comment
without elaborating.

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ebg13
> _you cannot just drop this comment without elaborating_

That's false.

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Starkus
What is needed? I get shot, I have metal, I have not decided to operate to
remove it. Life goes on

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newyankee
I have always wondered how invasive the TSA scanners are and whether one can
have an opt-in medical reports that flags potential serious issues from those
scans directly sent to you (if something really stands out).

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roywiggins
As far as I know, all of those scanners as deployed are millimeter-wave, not
x-ray. They're not designed to penetrate the skin.

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newyankee
oh, so no useful medical info

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patelh
Not sure if I would choose to get irritated with X-rays if I think I have a
cancerous tumor. CT scans are already scary IMHO if you already have cancer.
MRI may be safer option.

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timbit42
Apparently CT scan use a lot less radiation than they used to and are
therefore much safer now.

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jmpeax
Since the X-rays are being refracted rather than absorbed, will this technique
make them much safer as well?

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pavanagrawal123
This title is a really bad representation of what the actual technology is.
Instead, something closer to the actual research is: "X-ray elastography by
visualizing propagating shear waves" which actually makes sense. Elastography
in X-Ray is what is being described and not an imaging technique that is
"clearer" than MRI...

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louwrentius
How many % of the people not part of the field would understand what ‘shear
waves’ or elastography is?

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pavanagrawal123
I'm not suggesting that the title be replaced with that, the current title is
a blatant misrepresentation of the actual work.

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elric
How are these vibrations introduced into the body? And how do they affect the
patient?

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lostlogin
With MRI Elastography it’s a thing that looks like a ping pong bat, with a
hose attached to a subwoofer. I’m sure their are better ways to describe it!
It tickles if the patient is ticklish.

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monadic2
I can't wait for how much they charge in the US for it. Hundreds of dollars?
Thousands?!

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m0zg
MRI is actually not "clear" at all most of the time. People should be more
aware of this IMO.

Both my wife and I were mis-diagnosed due to this, both with conditions for
which it is impossible to spontaneously resolve. Mine required surgery with a
6 month typical recovery (which I declined), and would reduce my shoulder
mobility permanently. My wife was told she would be in a wheelchair for the
rest of her life in a few years due to an incurable spinal cord issue. We took
the news pretty hard. I put my career on hold for a while, and we tried (and
failed) to figure out how to live with this diagnosis, reading probably the
entirety of scientific literature that exists on the topic and finding no
reassurance. Six months later we got another MRI for her, which showed no
"abnormality" and nothing to be concerned about.

And my "issue" resolved on its own in a few months as well, although I did not
get another MRI - shit's expensive. The funny thing is, if the diagnosis was
correct (SLAP tear in the shoulder, if you must know), such things do not
resolve on their own.

So if someone tells you "you're gonna die" after looking at a blurry as fuck
MRI, go get another MRI at a minimum, and seek a second or even third opinion
before you take any of it seriously.

