
The Long Tail of the Attica Prison Riot - DiabloD3
http://www.themorningnews.org/article/the-long-tail-of-the-attica-prison-riot
======
yestoallthat
> As the prisoners collapsed, choking and retching, the police opened fire.
> Over the next several minutes, officers poured hundreds of rounds of gunfire
> into the yard, including, a judge later estimated, between 2,349 and 3,132
> pellets of buckshot. The prison yard was transformed into a charnel house.
> The prisoners, who had no firearms, were sitting ducks, as were the hostages
> that the police had ostensibly come to save. As hundreds of police and
> corrections officers stormed the prison, they sometimes paused to shoot
> inmates who were already on the ground or wounded. “Surrender peacefully.
> You will not be harmed,” a megaphone announced as unarmed prisoners were
> mowed down.

This isn't surreal, this isn't random, and it's also not "man being a beast".
Some are. Many more are made so, on purpose.

> _Behind the blind bestiality of the SA, there often lay a deep hatred and
> resentment against all those who were socially, intellectually, or
> physically better off than themselves, and who now, as if in fulfillment of
> their wildest dreams, were in their power. This resentment, which never died
> out entirely in the camps, strikes us as a last remnant of humanly
> understandable feeling. The real horror began, however, when the SS took
> over the administration of the camps. The old spontaneous bestiality gave
> way to an absolutely cold and systematic destruction of human bodies,
> calculated to destroy human dignity; death was avoided or postponed
> indefinitely. The camps were no longer amusement parks for beasts in human
> form, that is, for men who really belonged in mental institutions and
> prisons; the reverse became true: they were turned into "drill grounds," on
> which perfectly normal men were trained to be full-fledged members of the
> SS._

\-- Hannah Arendt, "The Origins of Totalitarianism"

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dzdt
Things are not much different today, unfortunately. See e.g.
[https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/19/nyregion/fishkill-
prison-...](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/19/nyregion/fishkill-prison-
inmate-died-after-fight-with-officers-records-show.html).

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crooked-v
The header on this site is really annoying with a trackpad. It vanishes with
any downward motion and reappears with even the smallest upwards motion, so
the tiny upwards "bounce" that some scrolling motions can have makes it keep
flickering in and out.

~~~
shabbyrobe
This is becoming far too common. It seems like every good long read I see
these days is on a site affected by this problem. Even the tiniest scroll jump
causes these things to appear and disappear, moving or obscuring the relevant
content underneath. I've been thinking of making a Firefox extension that
allows you to whitelist "position: fixed" on a per-site basis, but that won't
help much on Mobile Safari!

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onewhonknocks
*tale

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EamonnMR
Anyone else getting vibrating text in this article on mobile? An entire
paragraph is shaking up and down. I'll check it out on desktop later.

Edit: Try zooming in and out on the paragraph below "There seemed to be a
revolution underway, but, like many revolutions, it would end tragically."
chrome on android, can't replicate it on other pages on tmn, just that one.

~~~
andrewwomack
Hey, I'm the publisher of the site. We just replicated the bug, and it sure is
weird. Working on a fix. (Open to ideas, though!) Thank you!

~~~
pacaro
Thanks in advance!

I'm experiencing the same problem on iOS. If i keep a finger on the screen and
try to scroll gradually as I read, then it jitters. If I just scroll then
release, read, scroll then release, etc. it is smooth.

~~~
mattweinberg
(I'm a developer on the site)

Although Andrew (above) can replicate this, I haven't been able to. But I know
it's not just you. Are there any other details you can give? Do other stories
on the site do the same? What kind of iOS device do you have?

Sorry about this! It's the first we've heard of it and I wonder if it's
something in this article.

EDIT: I just recreated it. It looks like a continually switching class causing
the text to re-flow. I'm going to disable that JS temporarily while I figure
out why it's flapping. Thanks for reporting it!

EDIT 2, 1:23PM Eastern US: I deployed a hotfix. We'll do a more permanent fix
on Monday. If anyone else has trouble, let me know.

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OliverJones
The article says, " ... already disintegrating over Vietnam and the Kent State
shootings a year earlier. "

I sure wish it said "...Jackson State and Kent State shootings..." White lives
matter. So do black lives.

~~~
js2
White person here.

White lives defacto matter which is why there was never an explicit white
lives matter movement. When black lives matter, all lives will matter.

Edit: I was unfamiliar with Jackson State and mistook your point.

~~~
rangibaby
Half white person here.

I think that is the same kind of thinking that leads to people saying that
minorities can't be racist, or that women can't be sexist.

I think all lives matter too.

~~~
js2
It's not the same kind of thinking. Black lives matter doesn't mean other
lives don't. It doesn't mean white lives don't matter or that blue lives don't
matter. It's a response to systematic racism.

As a white male, I've never had to worry or been bothered by black racism or
female sexism because I live in a society where the white male has power. The
reality is that this is America today:
[http://i.imgur.com/zrTnEkW.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/zrTnEkW.jpg)

~~~
adekok
> I live in a society where the white male has power

What power do I have as a white male? Please be specific. Don't show how I'm
treated better than others, show how I have _power_.

I've never shown up at a job interview unqualified... and been told "Yup, you
get the job because of your skin color and your genitals".

While there are systemic racial differences in the US, they're not always what
you think. Which race has the highest average income? Is that because that
race is part of the majority?

It's not. So... how come if society is here to keep "white men" in power, that
Asian-Americans have the highest average income? Are they the secret power
behind the throne? [1]

Well, no one on their right mind would say so. Yet people are happy to claim
that there's some kind of conspiracy to keep another race in power. I dunno...
I've never been contacted and asked to join the conspiracy.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_wage_gap_in_the_United_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_wage_gap_in_the_United_States)

~~~
FullMtlAlcoholc
Let's see...

For starters, If you're convicted of a crime, you are much more likely to
receive a shorter prison sentence than a minority. The sentencing difference
between whites caught with cocaine and blacks caught with crack is an example
of this. In general, when interacting with law enforcement for whatever reason
(traffic stop, suspicion of drug possession of marijuana, etc.), you are much
more likely to receive a warning and not be arrested or given a ticket
compared to a minority. Also, when driving across the panhandle of Texas, the
police are less likely to stop you. Whenever I've driven through there, police
take one look at me and like clockwork, pull me over, often times calling
their K9 unit out.

On dating websites, you're more likely to appeal to more women than a
minority. And if you date outside of your race, the parents of your
significant other are more likely be more accepting of you than someone who is
black.

If you were accepted to a prestigious university or received a job offer for a
lucrative position, you wouldn't have to endure people questioning your
abilities and whispering "He's only here because of affirmative action." I've
experienced this despite scoring above the mean in all relevant categories. If
you want a recent example of this type of behavior on HackerNews, look here
and ctrl-f for gydfi:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13779165](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13779165)

> "Yup, you get the job because of your skin color and your genitals".

I don't think anyone has ever said this specifically. I believe that you're
falling into the same trap as the individual that I pointed out above,
assuming that you are at a disadvantage for a job because you don't get extra
consideration for being a woman or a minority. There is no advantage. In fact,
it is still a disadvantage. Even in Silicon Valley, a woman gets paid less for
doing the same work as their male colleagues. If you want a recent example,
look at the revelations coming out of the sinking ship that is Uber.

That not withstanding, In my experience as part of the team that does hiring
where I work (tech company), I find other members show a bias for those who
resemble their culture, that culture being people familiar with dank memes and
who play video games. They don't realize that when choosing their preferred
candidate that they have a preference. It doesn't mean they are racist,
sexist, etc. It just means that they have a cognitive bias that they may not
be aware of.

> Yet people are happy to claim that there's some kind of conspiracy to keep
> another race in power. I dunno... I've never been contacted and asked to
> join the conspiracy.

It's not a conspiracy headed by some cartoonish, mustache twirling villain. It
is just the historical remnant of a time when the social order was segregated
by race. Just because the civil rights act was passed in the 1960's does not
magically wash away the effects of institutionalized racism. Institutions take
time to change. It's certainly better than it was, but it's not perfect.

~~~
adekok
I asked _Don 't show how I'm treated better than others, show how I have
power._

Your argument is largely that I may get treated better than others. How,
exactly, does that show I have _power_ , as the GP comment suggested?

And did you read my other comment? The overwhelming better treatment is due to
sex, not gender. Being _male_ means you're treated much more poorly than being
female. Being a minority is just (nasty) icing on the cake.

> Even in Silicon Valley, a woman gets paid less for doing the same work as
> their male colleagues.

You are are that that's been illegal since the late 1960's, right?

If you want some comments as to where those "gaps" come from, see Thomas
Sowell, who's been deconstructing that gap since the 1980's:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_pQ7KXv0o0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_pQ7KXv0o0)

> It just means that they have a cognitive bias that they may not be aware of.

Sure... but how does that give me, the (alleged) recipient of such bias...
_power_? How do I use that bias to become one of the .0001% of society which
is ruling the country?

The short answer (of course) is I don't. Saying _I_ am powerful because share
the same skin color and gender as politicians is just a ludicrous statement to
make.

> Just because the civil rights act was passed in the 1960's does not
> magically wash away the effects of institutionalized racism. Institutions
> take time to change

Well, they take a short period of time to change if the _people_ involved are
willing. See the changes in the LA police attitude since the Rodney King
riots. It's not perfect, but it does seem a lot better;

And you're also discounting my comments about Asian-Americans. If society is
so controlled by The White Male, and is so racist, how come Asian-Americans
are doing better than white people on average? Is The White Male secretly
biased in _favor_ of Asians? Or is something else going on?

I think the answer here is at least in part poverty. If you're poor, it
doesn't really matter what your skin color is. You get treated poorly by
_everyone_. And it's damned hard to get out of the trap of poverty.

That fact alone explains why the descendants of poor ex-slaves have a hard
time getting ahead. Their families have been poor for 130 years... getting
ahead is hard.

~~~
FullMtlAlcoholc
> > I live in a society where the white male has power What power do I have as
> a white male?

You're being a bit disingenuous. I don't know if this is purposeful or not.
Would we agree the Sunni had power in Iraq under Saddam and today the Shia
have power? In China, is it far to say that the Han have power? That doesn't
mean that every Shia today in Iraq has power.

I was mainly trying to rebut your argument that minorities and women receive
favorable treatment in society due to policies such as affirmative action and
relaying that to you with details from my own personal experiences.

> Your argument is largely that I may get treated better than others. How,
> exactly, does that show I have power, as the GP comment suggested?

You don't take the logical leap. Receiving preferential treatment affords one
greater mobility whether it is in the social, professional, or administrative
realm. Accordingly, I think we can both agree that being treated better gives
one greater access to power, increasing the probability that you can exercise
power. I cannot prove how you specifically have greater power because I don't
know you.

> And did you read my other comment? The overwhelming better treatment is due
> to sex, not gender. Being male means you're treated much more poorly than
> being female. Being a minority is just (nasty) icing on the cake.

I showed you a specific example on this very site on how women are not treated
better, it is the opposite. Jennifer Widom's worthiness for being Engineering
Dean at Stanford was questioned, despite her impressive credentials being just
a google search away. I also don't know what you're insinuating by calling
minorities a "nasty" icing on the cake.

> If you want some comments as to where those "gaps" come from, see Thomas
> Sowell, who's been deconstructing that gap since the 1980's:
> [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_pQ7KXv0o0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_pQ7KXv0o0)

He makes a fair argument over the traditional wage gap but some of the
conclusions he comes to are a bit wonky. Especially the argument he makes that
if women make . 75 cents on the dollar, firms would be falling over themselves
to hire the cheaper labor. He makes the assumption that hiring decisions are
based chiefly on getting the most for your dollar when it is somewhat obvious
that people hire for individuals that they get along with. I was specifically
referring to today's climate. Again, I offered an anecdote. If you actually
care about the truth, not what anyone else says, if there is a woman where you
work in the same position as you what she makes.

(Side note) I actually have a degree in Economics from Stanford and had the
opportunity to chat with him while meeting with one of my professors (John
Cogan). I don't take academic economists seriously. It's good for explaining
the broad strokes of history, but it just does not accurately model human
behavior. As a field, it's closer to philosophy than science and often times
it is treated like a religion. I'll be brief as to why,..(1)Economic models
make simplifying assumptions without explicitly stating them, the rational
economic actor being chief among them (2) Economics theory is better described
as hypothesis since hardly any vidence by way of experiment is ever presented
(3) Preponderance of a cult of personality

> Sure... but how does that give me, the (alleged) recipient of such bias...
> power? How do I use that bias to become one of the .0001% of society which
> is ruling the country?

I'm not making any claims about your specific level of power. It's the .00001%
as you state, By definition, you don't get in the club ONLY because of your
skin color. Being born to the right family helps (I'll leave to you the
demographics of those families), If you aren't born into it, you need not only
a certain ability, but the will to exercise power. I You do have a greater
chance of getting into that rarified group than a woman or a minority, who
face additional hurdles. How much weight to give them, I don't know.

> If society is so controlled by The White Male, and is so racist, how come
> Asian-Americans are doing better than white people on average? Is The White
> Male secretly biased in favor of Asians? Or is something else going on?

> I think the answer here is at least in part poverty. If you're poor, it
> doesn't really matter what your skin color is. You get treated poorly by
> everyone. And it's damned hard to get out of the trap of poverty. That fact
> alone explains why the descendants of poor ex-slaves have a hard time
> getting ahead. Their families have been poor for 130 years... getting ahead
> is hard.

You're putting a lot of words in my mouth, making assumptions about things I
never said, and veering into the political. I believe that we agree on most
points. All I'm trying to say is that women and minorities do not get
preferential treatment. Poverty is likely the most significant factor in
mobility, but not the only. People do not cross the street when they see a
group of asian teens coming towards them. People like me do face the type of
cognitive bias that causes others to go on the other side of the street when
they see me approaching.

~~~
adekok
> You're being a bit disingenuous.

I'm trying to understand just, what, _exactly_ people mean by "power". You've
used it repeatedly in subsequent examples. But haven't given explanations.

Your examples largely amount to "people in charge have power", or "the
majority of the population has power". That's nice, but it doesn't mean a
whole lot.

> I was mainly trying to rebut your argument that minorities and women receive
> favorable treatment in society due to policies such as affirmative action

I never said any such thing.

> You don't take the logical leap.

Exactly. I'm asking you to _explain_ the logical leap. And to explain what,
exactly you mean by "power". I'm not sure I buy the argument that being
treated better is "power". At least, "power" in the way many people mean it.

When I (as a white male), get accused of being part of the "patriarchy", or
"having male power", I question just what the heck people mean by that. The
answers tend to be tautological statements, or sophistry.

It would be more accurate (and more honest) to say that the people in power
tend to keep it. (i.e. rich, upper class people). And that the majority race /
religion / whatever in a society tends to get by as the "default" group, which
makes things easier for them.

Is that "power" in the same way that a king has power over his subjects? I
don't think so. Yet that is _precisely_ how it's commonly being used. And it
makes me worried.

> I showed you a specific example on this very site on how women are not
> treated better, it is the opposite.

One data point does not a conclusion make. While individual anecdotes are
compelling, we should not draw larger conclusions from them.

Instead, we should draw conclusions about society by examining... society.
i.e. via statistics.

> He makes a fair argument over the traditional wage gap but some of the
> conclusions he comes to are a bit wonky. Especially the argument he makes
> that if women make . 75 cents on the dollar, firms would be falling over
> themselves to hire the cheaper labor. He makes the assumption that hiring
> decisions are based chiefly on getting the most for your dollar when it is
> somewhat obvious that people hire for individuals that they get along with

The unstated implication here is that there _won 't_ be women that employers
can get along with.

i.e. Given a pool of qualified applicants, employers will find a subset that
they can get along with. In those subset, there are some men and women. If
they can hire women at 75 cents on the dollar, why wouldn't they?

The only way to refute that conclusion is to say that there are no qualified
female applicants. In which case you _can 't_ do wage comparisons, because the
men applying will have different skills than the women who don't apply.

If you care to look, about 95% of the wage gap is explained by people doing
different jobs, or who have different education, or different work experience.
And, unmarried childless women under 30 make the same (or now slightly more),
than men their same age. That's been true for about 30 years now.

But if you don't believe that, you've go to believe that despite it being
illegal for almost 50 years, and despite the overwhelming propaganda about the
wage gap, and despite most HR / accounting departments being a majority
female, that the wage gap still exists _for people doing the same job with the
same experience and the same skills_.

The only way you can believe that is to posit some massive secret conspiracy.
That way lies madness.

> Being born to the right family helps (I'll leave to you the demographics of
> those families)

Because most of the people who immigrated to the US before 1880 where white
(ish) European? And most of the blacks before then were slaves?

Hmm... so the people that were rich and powerful 150 years ago tend to be the
related to the people who are rich and powerful now. Gosh, how the heck does
_that_ work? It's almost like it's _hard_ to make money. And that it's hard
for a poor person to make money in the face of entrenched and wealthy
opposition.

Where you see racial divides, I see demographic divides. I think my view is a
little simpler, and explains history a bit better.

> You're putting a lot of words in my mouth, making assumptions about things I
> never said, and veering into the political.

I was making a point by using an extreme example.

> All I'm trying to say is that women and minorities do not get preferential
> treatment.

I think that in many aspects of society, women _do_ get preferential
treatment. And the statistics (CDC, DoJ, department of labor) support this
position.

> People like me do face the type of cognitive bias that causes others to go
> on the other side of the street when they see me approaching.

Sure. I've had people do the same thing to me... as a large white male walking
alone down a street late at night.

People fear the unusual and unknown. Evolution shows us that people without
such fears get eaten.

It's not _nice_ to have people avoid you. But their reasons are not just
racism.

I've had similar experiences with religious relatives. 30 years ago, it was
"What are those damned gays doing? Why are they trying to destroy our
society?" Now, it's "My next door neighbour is gay. I don't understand any of
it, but he gave me some nice petunias".

Familiarity helps a lot. Along with understanding that there are reasons why
such behaviors are economically encouraged, or evolutionary adaptations.

~~~
Frondo
Man, I just gotta say, I'm glad someone's got the energy to keep arguing with
you.

Watching this play out, it's like watching a flat earther--that would be you
in this situation--argue that the world couldn't possibly be round, we'd all
just fall off it!

~~~
adekok
You think that referencing stats from the CDC, DoJ, Department of Labour, etc.
makes me a "flat earther"?

Let me guess... you think there's a secret government conspiracy to watch your
every movement, and you have this magic tinfoil hat to protect you?

If you were to discuss this rationally, I'd ask that you summarize what you
think my argument is. And I predict you'd get it 90% wrong.

