
Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers - jstanier
Hey folks.<p>Last year I was fortunate enough to sign a deal to write a book with my favorite technical publisher, The Pragmatic Bookshelf.<p>When I started out as an Engineering Manager many years ago, I found that there wasn&#x27;t a huge amount of material that specifically and practically helped me understand how to do my job. When you learn to program there&#x27;s all of these amazing tutorials, examples and guides, but what was there for new managers?<p>In response to this, a couple of years ago I started a blog over at <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theengineeringmanager.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theengineeringmanager.com</a> which got a decent amount of traction - I had a few front-pages here too, which was awesome. I improved a lot as a writer.<p>This gave me the confidence to pitch a book to numerous publishers and thankfully my ideal choice wanted to work with me.<p>The book has now been released in beta, which means you get DRM-free access to the first 240 pages (13 chapters) and more chapters will be pushed out as they get finished. I&#x27;ve written 17 out of 19 of them so far. The hard copy should be out in the Spring.<p>It&#x27;s available with free excerpts here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pragprog.com&#x2F;book&#x2F;jsengman&#x2F;become-an-effective-software-engineering-manager" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pragprog.com&#x2F;book&#x2F;jsengman&#x2F;become-an-effective-softw...</a><p>If anyone&#x27;s at all interested in learning about what it&#x27;s like to pitch a publisher with their own book idea, then I guess I&#x27;ve been successful at that now, so I&#x27;m more than happy to give you any advice. I&#x27;ve had a great time working with PragProg and my editor and the other staff there have been (honestly) fantastic.<p>I&#x27;d love to hear your feedback, and the nice part about the beta process is that the book still isn&#x27;t finished, so there&#x27;s plenty of scope for improvements.<p>Thanks all!
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me551ah
IMO being a good engineering manager is quite subjective and varies across
companies and even teams. The traits of a good engineer would roughly be the
same across companies and would be ranked according to knowledge, work
experience and quality of code etc. And since a software engineer reports to
an engineering manager, expectations are also based on the views of one
person.

Upper management in different companies would have different expectations from
what an engineering manager should be. Some would want them to code, some
wouldn't. Some would want them to utilize developers as much as possible while
some would want them to keep work life balance of developers in mind. Same
with teams. A much younger team would have vastly different views on what a
good manager is compared to a team which is filled up of more senior people. A
younger team might want the EM to be more hands-on while a senior team would
want more autonomy. Then you also have HR and feedback from various teams to
deal with. Company culture and popular managers would also drive some of the
traits of an engineering manager.

Having been an EM for multiple teams I've had to change my management style
multiple times to better suit change in higher management and different teams.
But I've always been appaled by how less content exists for learning about
engineering management. Nice to see someone focus on this area!

~~~
JamesBarney
I agree this is true of engineering managers but its also true of engineers.

Some organizations want them to engage with end users and do a lot of business
analysis others want them to focus on coding.

Some organizations want engineers to follow protocol and coding guidelines to
the tee. Other want you to make the right call for the circumstances.

Some organizations don't care how long something takes but want it to work
perfectly. Others want to make sure you deliver a product on time even if it's
buggy.

Some organizations expect you to always choose the right language/tool for the
job, some want you to choose the organizational language/tool everyone is
familiar with.

I'm a consultant and sometimes run into this issue. Building out an MVP for a
start up is a completely different mindset than working on a fortune 500
Enterprise app.

~~~
LordFast
Same for product managers as well, ranging from technical customer support
agents at enterprise fortune 500s to app developers at small startups.

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rafaelbarbosa
Congratulations on getting published!

I've bought the book and read until the Delegation chapter.

Up until now I find that the topics are interesting and the writing is very
direct and unpretentious which I appreciate.

I also like the approach you took of wrapping it in a story, I think it makes
the topic a lot less dry.

At the same time I feel that it doesn't go into the detail I would like.

For instance I feel that the “How to Measure Your Output as a Manager” is a
bit hand waved by using Andy Grove's equation. This is a topic I struggle with
because I sometimes feel that I don't produce anything as a manager and that
is frustrating.

Nonetheless, the chapters I've read are fine as a starting point and
appreciate that you suggest additional literature to deepen the topics.

Overall I'm positive about the book, would buy again :)

~~~
jstanier
That's kind of you to say that! Thank you. Can I email you to get some more of
your feedback? What's the best way to contact you?

~~~
rafaelbarbosa
Hi, sure, check my profile for my email.

------
brianmcc
If anyone is considering moving into engineering management, you'd do well to
look not just at the _how_ but the _why_. If it's for status/salary rather
than the change in nature of the work be very careful about making the move.

You need to really _want_ to manage and develop people (with all the
idiosyncracies that real human beings come with!), and to communicate, co-
ordinate, and delegate for a living.

Some will love this, others hate it. But don't view it as a natural
progression that will work for everyone.

~~~
JimboOmega
Who cares that much about the salary when you are that point in the Software
Engineeering career track in SV anyway? What, really, is the difference
between making $300K/yr and even fully doubling that to $600K? A nicer
apartment, a nicer car, an earlier retirement? These are pretty marginal
things if the cost is spending most of your time doing something you don't
like.

The most common reason somebody becomes an EM that I've observed is because
somebody else tells them to do it. It's a promotion, so you should want it.
I'm one of very few people in the SwE world I've encountered who very actively
and clearly wants to do it, and for the reasons you listed - to spend more
time on humans and less on code.

Most of my managers have at best tolerated the position; several have
confessed being miserable and just wanting to code again ("okay, let's switch"
hasn't worked, though). That includes my current and previous manager; the one
before those 2 said he didn't want to manage and despite being CTO was trying
to maneuver into more of an architect position, the one before _that_ quit
within a month of being promoted. I've known several people who were EMs and
switched back, and had a friend confess that she was on the verge of quitting
before she got offered the chance to be an IC again.

Not a one who got promoted and then loved it.

Given that it's true most ICs want to code and not manage (even if many can
learn to be good managers), and these days big company ICs are very well
compensated... it really feels like the driving force is external - somebody
else tells them to do it, it looks like the natural progression, and that's
"just what you do" more than anything else.

~~~
danny_taco
Very spot on observation. I'm currently on the 'I tolerate it' bucket but I'm
actively trying to hire for my replacement so I can move back to being an IC
again.

At first I really disliked it but the more time I spend doing it, the better I
get at it, the more rewarding it becomes. I fear by the time I find someone to
actually replace me, I won't want to go back to being an IC.

~~~
LordFast
It's an entirely different job, that's why nobody can just drop into it from
being an engineer and magically be good at it.

Very few of the skills overlap even within the same categories such as
architecture and execution. One is about the code, the other one is about the
people.

Once the core skills are developed e.g. being able to clearly communicate a
vision and plan, ability to have tough conversations, building interpersonal
trust, being an effective salesperson for the team. Once these skills are
adequately developed, it becomes a good job again.

Most people have spent at least a few years training to become a professional
software engineer before being able to do that job, and yet most engineers
don't give themselves/others the same understanding for developing the
necessary skills to become a professional engineering manager.

------
JimboOmega
Does the book cover how to get the position in the first place? I've read
countless books (Like "The Managers Path" and "Managing Humans"), blog
articles, etc, and tried many strategies, but it never seems to happen.
Usually for the catch-22 reason of not having managing experience.

I've even had past managers they had no worries about me having the skills or
knowledge to do it... but it still doesn't happen.

~~~
Jemaclus
The tactic that worked for me was to bring it up to my boss. I set up a 1:1
with him, and said "In 2-3 years, I want your job. How can I get there?" (and
"want your job" obviously means "to do what you do" not literally take their
job)

If you have a good manager, they'll set you up for success, working with you
to create a roadmap to get from IC to Manager. The steps in between would
probably entail taking on larger projects, mentoring others, leading a project
with multiple developers on it, and then after demonstrating all of that, you
get the promotion.

In my experience, you get the promotion when you're already doing the job. In
other words, you do the work and the promotion is recognition of the work
you're already doing.

The other thing I'd say is that you don't get what you don't ask for. If you
want to be a manager, ask for it. If you want more responsibility, ask for it.
If you want better compensation or a new title, ask for it.

Unless you have a FANTASTIC manager, you will never just magically be
recognized for your work. They will assume you're happy doing what you're
doing and focus on greasing the squeaky wheel. To further your career, you
should be a little squeaky. Ask for what you want. If you can't get it now,
ask for help getting to that point.

I, as a manager, really appreciate it when someone gives me direction on what
they want. Otherwise, I have to guess or try to pull it out of them, and I
feel like I'm pulling teeth. It's hugely beneficial for a manager to have
proactive direct reports. Be that person.

Good luck.

~~~
rmrm
Just wanted to second this. As a manager, even for people I know fairly well,
I'm routinely surprised by little bits I learn as to what they want, what they
dislike, or what gets them upset. Do not assume your manager can read your
mind or that things are self evident and universal. With people, most things
arent. Not much different than any relationship.

~~~
arambhashura
Just wanted to second your comment. I’m continually surprised at the number of
individual contributors who (1) expect their manager to be perfect even though
(s)he’s a human; (2) expect immediate gratification of their needs; (3) are
only too happy to push all decision-making to the manager; (4) don’t realize
that the mgr can be having a bad day; (5) compare their mgr to a friend’s mgr
without comparing the job conditions; etc (not that a manager shouldn’t strive
towards perfection).

OTOH, I’m also surprised by the number of managers who (1) implement something
because “my friend at <massively successful co> uses <tool/process etc>; (2)
don’t understand that their colleagues have lives outside work; (3) don’t
realize that they’re being partial to some folks; (4) take advantage of the
“meek” contributors; (5) don’t protect their team from upper mgmt when needed;
(6) don’t do the grunt work when needed (and it’s always needed) etc.

In other words, just like any relationship, as you say.

------
zooweemama
Looks very interesting! Can you also write one about how to go back to
engineer from engineering manager? :)

~~~
chrisbro
I just recently did this in my company and have been mulling over giving a
talk about it.

~~~
jstanier
You should! I think there's a lot of stigma around it. It's definitely not a
step "down".

------
kitsune_
Congrats on the book. Have you ever explored alternative forms of management
and organizational forms? Stuff like Sociocracy, Teal (from Reinventing
Organizations) or management as envisioned by Deming. I wonder whether the
engineering manager role as usually interpreted isn't really an anti-pattern,
I mean we're basically applying Taylorism to knowledge work.

~~~
jstanier
Thank you! I haven't gone into detail about these in the book. This is very
much the standard Engineering Manager route that people would find in most
places in industry right now.

However - if you don't mind - I would love to use those as examples in the
final chapters where I mention the opportunities offered by moving into start-
ups, and also where our managers will be given more autonomy to set the
culture of a wider organization (of which that culture could involve much
looser management structures).

Great pointers, thank you.

~~~
kitsune_
Cool! I actually work at a company that adopted Holacracy roughly 3 years ago.
In many ways it's probably much less loose and more formal than most people
think (I mean there is a written constitution written in Legalese).

There are still roles that resemble the classical management role, i.e. there
is a role that is responsible for setting strategies and assigning people into
roles and monitoring role fit within their 'circle' (think team or business
unit), called the circle's lead link. Yet there is a process for any role
holder to propose putting those accountabilities into a new role or into a
process. Role holders can also propose the creation of new roles or policies
if they feel a tension. Then there is a structured process to deal with these
proposals, and people need to demonstrate that the proposal would cause harm
and reduce the capacity for the circle to achieve its purpose in order to have
a valid objection. People in roles ultimately have ultimate autonomy on how
they want to achieve their role's purpose. The lead link role can give
relative prioritization if there are conflicts, but the lead link can't say
'you have to work on this right now and this is how you gonna do it'.

What ultimately happens is that the traditional accountabilities of a manger
end up being distributed across multiple roles, so people might have software
developer role, but might also be responsible for defining the hiring
standards, or do people development etc.

It's kinda similar to the book "Turn the Ship around" where you don't have to
ask for permission to do something and there is a process to address any
tensions that arise from this power to act autonomously.

~~~
jstanier
This is fascinating, thanks! Turn The Ship Around is on my reading list.

------
kdeldycke
I transitioned from software engineer to engineering management 2 years ago.
It was by far the most challenging (still rewarding) moment of my career. I
was lucky to have the opportunity to build up a team from scratch to take over
the services and architecture I designed, developed and operated.

Biggest lesson learned: you're no longer the decision-maker on your technical
stack. Your team is responsible. Still, you’re liable for the result and its
impact on business. That duality is hard to reconcile for former engineer. The
solution? Build a culture. Better: create the conditions for a sustainable
culture to emerge and persist.

That insight, and many other advices for new managers are compiled at:
[https://github.com/kdeldycke/awesome-
management](https://github.com/kdeldycke/awesome-management)

------
blowski
I don't know whether it's in the book - perhaps it's in the " _How to Win
Friends and Influence People_ " chapter - but one thing I struggle with is
communicating outwards and upwards.

I tend to assume that everybody else in the company knows that my team works
in the way it does because that's how you deliver software successfully.
Often, this comes back to bite when I learn that other managers think the team
should be managed differently, and because I haven't made enough efforts to
sell our methodology, those managers can have more influence than I'd like.

So, as an Engineering Manager, it's not enough that everybody in your team is
happy and produce. You also have to be an advocate for your team to the rest
of the company.

~~~
jstanier
I totally agree on your final sentence there. There's a number of things in
that chapter you mention, and there's also material on managing upwards
earlier on in the book.

As an example of something I personally struggle with: what's the best way to
have the rest of the company know what all of our teams are working on without
A) going into too much detail B) being obtuse C) opening ourselves up for
miscommunication to customers or deadline promises D) giving ourselves room to
fail, because not everything will work out.

The current iteration is a fortnightly newsletter that I curate between
product and the engineering managers in the department and it gets sent
around, but making everyone happy with it is /so/ hard.

~~~
blowski
You really hit the nail on the head there. It's so hard to give the right
people the right information at the right time.

I like the idea of the newsletter. Do you focus mostly on achievements, or
discuss 'ways of working' as well?

I'm really looking forward to the book, by the way.

~~~
jstanier
Thank you!

The target audience for the newsletter was decided as "the busy exec". Not too
much text, lots of gifs of functionality that we've built, etc.

There's some separate newsletters we do as well - there's a fortnightly
"what's going on in the backend" one, curated by our infrastructure teams
that's aimed at engineers.

Currently the general case newsletter goes to Engineering, Product, Product
Design, and the exec group. We don't think it's quite good enough for the
staff@ mailing list yet, but maybe we're just being over-cautious. It's really
hard to get the balance right.

~~~
mixmastamyk
Gifs? Don’t low quality animations make it hard to read?

~~~
jstanier
When they're embedded in a Google Doc, they're pretty good at getting the
point across - then they can have a link to the app itself too.

------
redleader9345
Warning ... cynical, pessimistic viewpoint coming.

Here is a pattern that I've observed over a few jobs that I've held as a
developer at different companies. Wondering if anyone has any similar
experience.

The first line manager (only manages individual contributors) exhibits these
characteristics.

1.)He used to be a coder, but that was a long time ago. SQL hasn't changed, so
that's the bit he's drawn to when he feels like he needs to roll up his
sleeves and contribute.

2.)He has some form of attention deficit, demonstrated by the fact that he
can't hold down a conversation really well. Especially if it gets technical.

3.)He really overplays the busy body persona. Always checking phone, always
late for a meeting.

4.)He's really insecure in his position within the company, always fearful
that he's going to be cut loose. This is extremely amplified when he gets a
new manager himself.

5.)He has very little influence over direction. He's really just a proxy
mouthpiece for higher level management. And he loves to have status update
meetings where he informs the team of all the important updates he received in
the big important meeting he attended with other big important people.

6.)Instead of being someone who is respected by the team, he becomes more of
someone you have sympathy for.

7.)You wonder why he never asks the real questions, like "are you happy with
your role?". And you realize it's because he doesn't really want to hear the
answer. He couldn't really do anything about it anyway. See point #5.

8.) He's way too preoccupied worrying about his own safety to nurture the
team.

9.) As a developer, you have the safety net of knowing that in the worst case
scenario (terminated) you could find another job fairly quickly with pay
parody. As a manager, you don't have that comfort blanket. So you cling on to
your current job no matter how badly you are abused. And people lose more
respect for you because you look pathetic without a backbone.

10.) As a cynical developer in his 40's, you realize that you don't observe
many 50+ developers in the wild, and you bemoan the idea that you're going to
have to suck it up and play manager eventually.

Anxiety and existential crisis is built into the tech career trajectory, and I
feel like the only winning strategy is to be ok with moving backward income
wise at various points in your timeline.

~~~
sanderjd
Without commenting on the specifics on your comment: what does this have to do
with the OP's book? If anything, writing a book with ideas, experiences, and
techniques aimed at helping people be better at this job is responsive to all
the problems you identify.

~~~
redleader9345
Just commentary on the engineer turned manager narrative. Please forgive if it
is out of place. Should I delete it?

~~~
sanderjd
Nah sorry for calling you out like that, it's slightly off topic but a fine
rant. For what it's worth, I agree with many of your points, but hope we can
do better as the profession continues to mature.

------
jonaldomo
Hey I made an app to help me be a better engineering manager, I’d love your
opinion on it if you had some time.

[https://apps.apple.com/us/app/team-
lead/id1466421445?mt=8](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/team-
lead/id1466421445?mt=8)

[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=co.jmoses.manu...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=co.jmoses.manus.play)

------
cr0sh
> If anyone's at all interested in learning about what it's like to pitch a
> publisher with their own book idea, then I guess I've been successful at
> that now, so I'm more than happy to give you any advice.

Maybe this needs to be a new book?

Seriously, all of this sounds wonderful - and thank you (but I would love to
hear some tips on getting a book published from zero - I certainly write
enough that I could probably fill a book, whether anyone would read it
though...???).

~~~
ninjakeyboard
I'd love to hear more about this as well.

------
artsyca
Make sure to buy two copies so you can read it twice as fast

~~~
ScottFree
I'm buying 6! I'll be CTO by the end of the month!

~~~
jstanier
Oh no, these people know the secret!

------
mnsc
This looks interesting. I assume that this is very us-centric though? Have you
gotten any international reactions/feedback during writing? I guess it's har
to say but how applicable would this be in other parts of the engineering
world? I've only worked in tech in Sweden and I sometimes feel like that "it's
pretty much the same" but other times: "us tech scene is aliens on another
planet".

~~~
jstanier
That's a good question. I'm English and I work for a UK company. I had some
reviewers at the 50% stage who were from European companies and they didn't
say anything specific about this, but I'd be interested to learn more about
the US tech scene being quite alien - I haven't experienced it myself.

~~~
mnsc
Well, I guess I assumed wrong then! =)

And for me as a Swede the most alien thing for me is the "lone genius
startup"-thing (that probably is very over represented/emphasized here at HN)
where developers work for stocks(?) and hope(?) that the company will blow up
and seem to take great personal risks. Of course that exists here as well in
small startups but we have so strong work force-regulations that I don't think
it can get that extreme. And now that I think of it it might be that we are
the odd ones so maybe it's not so much u.s. vs. e.u. as u.s. vs sweden.
¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

~~~
jstanier
I understand. Yeah, we're a VC-backed company but it didn't feel like the
journey was a movie script at any point.

------
vi-mode
OT: for those who have never been in leader/managerial positions:

\- Leading people is 1000x less fun than coding

\- Leading people makes your more money than as an avg coder

\- Leading people too long makes you lose your technical skills slowly

\- At some age and for most, there's no other option than leading, 'go or
grow'

\- Leading bigger headcounts is comparable to competitive sports 24/7 and
shouldn't be underestimated

~~~
burlesona
1000x less fun? That’s extremely subjective, and depends enormously on what
you draw satisfaction from. Leading people can be a lot of fun if you
genuinely care about the people you are leading and take joy from empowering
and enabling them to grow and succeed.

~~~
vi-mode
Yes and no. You can move mountains with good teams, this is great and you will
draw satisfaction from. But IDK if you had ever 100+ people in your reporting
line for a longer time. Then you knew that it's everything BUT definitely not
_a lot of fun_. It's super hard work and will push you and your mind
dangerously to the limit.

~~~
thewanisdown
It's a different mindset, but I still think it's fun. For me, the key with
that size of a group was focusing on the development of the leaders under me.
When I make sure they are set up for success, things go smoothly.

The hardest time in my life was trying to micromanage a large group. Once you
let go, and focus on the bigger picture, it's quite fun. Challenging, for
sure, but very fun.

~~~
vi-mode
Hint: you should never frame your reports in such a way ('leaders _under_
me'), 101 of leadership; but let's move on: I think we are not talking about
the same; managing people has no short-term feedback loops like coding, it can
be fun yes but many confuse this fun with the status involved; from a rational
perspective and with the experience of heading larger headcounts (did you lead
100+ teams for a longer time?) paired with hitting ambitious org goals, I find
it hard to call 'managing people' fun.

~~~
Impossible
What is the proper way to frame reports? "leaders reporting to me", "managers
I manage"?

~~~
thewanisdown
DNA evidence works well.

In all seriousness, I recommend not referring to them as "reports" at all.
Call them "My Team", "us", "we". It creates a sense of collective ownership.

When talking up, I use specific names, or "the team" to reference tasks or
successes, and "I" when we talk about failures. I own what goes wrong, they
own what goes right.

~~~
vi-mode
Hm, how should this work? If I'd ask you, 'How many direct reports do you
have', what would you say? You need to use the term 'direct report' again.

If you fuzzed around with 'my team' while I try to understand you team
structure, your direct report count, their profile, which and how many reports
they again have, you'd drive me nuts with a fake 'my team' humbleness.

Using the term 'report' is absolutely ok, you shouldn't talk all day long of
your reports of course or trying to impressive anyone.

~~~
thewanisdown
You seem to be taking something about this thread very personally. I'm sorry
for that. I hope you have a good day.

~~~
vi-mode
You think so? I just disagreed with the things you wrote because I think some
of your statements are wrong and/or mislead and they're altogether also
inconsistent.

~~~
thewanisdown
I don't believe they are inconsistent, but I also have the advantage of
knowing my own life intimately. I suppose the context makes a difference.

There are very few "rules" in this game, so feel free to manage differently.
You have 100+ on your team, so I'm sure your methods worked well for you, as
mine have for me.

------
t_rope
Congratulations on getting as far as you have.

I look forward to reading this, I've been making this transition so I'm sure
plenty will relate to me.

A couple of points :

Is there anywhere I can pay for this in pounds?

Your choice of excerpts is very teasing, but I haven't had a chance to read
any of the in depth content. Would you consider one of the sub-sections? That
said, I suppose they did work for me... So maybe you know what you're doing!

~~~
jstanier
Hey! I think you'll have to wait until the thing is done and then you can buy
it from Amazon and other bookstores. Couple of months, I guess.

The publisher is in charge of choosing the excerpts, but I'll feed that back
to them.

------
xwowsersx
I've been looking for something like this. Hope it's good.

One thing: the description starts with "Software startups make global
headlines every day". That line seems completely disconnected from the rest of
the description and it seems nothing would be lacking if you started with the
next sentence instead.

~~~
jstanier
Sure, that's good feedback and makes a lot of sense. I can edit that blurb.

------
ozmaverick72
A competent manager is a very rare breed indeed. Competent team leads - I've
had a few of those. But at any level higher than that all competence seems to
fall away. Success would seem to be despite management rather than because of
it.

------
BossingAround
Do you also deal with the 'why' of moving to the management track? I've seen
quite a few people becoming depressed and moving back from the mgmt track to
their old position.

~~~
jstanier
I said something similar in another comment, but one of the things I say in
the introduction is that I've written the book to help people understand what
the management track is really about. So if someone reads the book and decides
that it isn't for them, I think that I can hopefully say I've helped them
also.

------
fujohnwang
I had written such a book too, but in Chinese, you can find it here if you are
interested:

[https://afoo.me/books.html](https://afoo.me/books.html)

------
codegeek
This looks great and I would love to get one. I am interested in the Hard Copy
only (I can't do ebooks). Is there a mailing list for the hard copy ?

~~~
jstanier
Sure! Sign up here:
[https://t.co/burXhyiuoK?amp=1](https://t.co/burXhyiuoK?amp=1)

------
s_Hogg
Well done, this is an area that could use more declarative information and
less guesswork. I think there's another question that also needs answering:
how do I make myself _want_ to be a manager? A lot of times, the incentives
tell the engineer not to bother because the money is already good and you have
a decent impact anyway. I'm very interested to hear your thoughts on the
subject.

~~~
jstanier
That's a very good question. In the introduction I've said that I've written
the book as a way of letting people understand what the role is really like so
they can make that decision.

However, I think that I could use a sidebar to the reader to allow them to
further question their own motives, and help them make that decision more
clearly.

------
atmosx
I will keep in on your book. I've read the "Effective Manager" and the
"Manager's Path" so far. The first one has some good hints here and there but
it's overly verbose and at times feels like a marketing campaign. The second
one, I loved and resonates with my experience so far.

Congrats for getting published!

~~~
jstanier
Thank you! I hope you like it.

------
rainyMammoth
In most big companies in Silicon valley, being a manager is not a promotion
but rather a parallel track.

What I find strange is that most of big cos expect managers to not be
technical anymore. There is that weird expectation that the manager should
have been technical in the past but is now only used as an enabler for the
team.

~~~
crimsonalucard
Even in silicon valley this is largely the minority. Yes it does occur more
frequently here but not to any scale worth noting.

It is part of human nature for leads to gain more than the fair share even
when the leads are doing disproportionally less work and less skilled work.
This has happened across the board for almost every culture past tribal
cultures.

------
vinnie1991
Are there alternative methods on buying your book? I don't have PayPal and I
don't have a credit card.

~~~
jstanier
Good question! I don't know. I can ask my editor. When the print copy is out
it will be available from bookshops and Amazon and so on, so maybe that's the
short-term answer.

------
Etheryte
As someone who's constantly at somewhat of a crossroads on the subject, this
book's intro leads me to believe it's exactly up my tree. However, I would
prefer to read a physical book — is it possible to subscribe for updates so I
know when it comes out?

~~~
jstanier
I don't know if there's a way to subscribe for updates with the publisher, but
if you use Twitter I'm on there as @jstanier and I give updates on how it's
going. If you're not on Twitter then I can drop you an email.

~~~
sciurus
I'd recommend setting up a mailing list and promoting it on your site. See the
"stay in touch" section at
[https://dataintensive.net/](https://dataintensive.net/) or the "sign up for
newsletter" section on [https://the-cloud-book.com/](https://the-cloud-
book.com/) for examples.

~~~
jstanier
Yeah, that's a good idea. My blog has a mailing list but I did a wonderful job
of making it extremely hard to find.

------
zerr
Question to CTOs - are you happy? When I see what particular CTO does day to
day, assuming he/she was an engineer before - it seems quite boring. It seems
they've sacrificed their engineering side in exchange for a bigger salary.

~~~
blowski
The grind of constantly learning the latest technologies eventually got
boring, and now I really enjoy managing developers. For me personally, helping
an unhappy or under-performing developer get out of their slump is a really
rewarding experience.

I don't enjoy long-winded, pointless meetings - but if you're organisation has
so many of them, you'll get pulled into them anyway once you're senior enough.

~~~
swyx
i think i am an under-performing developer. if you dont mind sharing some
secret sauce... what are the first questions you think about asking to
diagnose whats going on?

~~~
blowski
What makes you think you're under-performing?

I think the "secret" is simply to make sure people know what they're suppoesd
to be doing, that they want to do it, and that they feel they have everything
they need to do it. That won't necessarily always work, because not all under-
performance is work-related - if you've just had a baby, going through divorce
or bereavement, I'd expect you to be 'under-performing' and wouldn't try to
fix it.

If you do want a chat, I'm available on email (it's on my profile page).

~~~
swyx
thanks, will drop an email (to be clear its not like i was expecting any
solutions here, i just like learning about how managers manage).

~~~
blowski
Great, I'll reply to your email. As a manager, I wouldn't discuss any problems
you're having in an open forum - and I'd try to do it face-to-face as much as
possible. It takes time to build up trust, figure out what's going on -
perhaps you already know but don't feel comfortable, perhaps you need to work
it out.

------
proc0
I'd love a blog about how to AVOID becoming a manager as an engineer or
technical person. It really seems "contributors" are at the bottom of the
pyramid, especially in companies whose core business is not technical in
nature.

~~~
nvarsj
It's not particularly hard. Just never accept a leadership position :). As
long as you keep your technical skills sharp, you should never be short of a
job. However your income will likely plateau very early in your career. You
can try to become famous as a way to counteract that, but it is substantially
harder than just going into leadership.

~~~
proc0
> However your income will likely plateau very early in your career.

yes this is sad part. hoping AI will take over leadership and only AI
engineers will be needed. /jk

------
codeisawesome
I can’t wait for it to come out of beta and be available in my O’Reilly
subscription :)

~~~
jstanier
I didn't even know that was a thing. :-) Ace!

------
matttah
Jstanier - Great job, this looks really cool. Curious what icon set are you
using? I saw you have similar style icons across a few of your projects, is
there a standard library you are using or are you creating them yourself?

~~~
jstanier
Hey - icon set? What do you mean by icon set? :-)

~~~
matttah
Just the images on the front page, guess a bit bigger than icons!

~~~
jstanier
I /think/ I know what you're talking about, but just in case this gets
derailed in a back-and-forth and lost, then feel free to contact me on Twitter
@jstanier or my email is in my profile - we can chat more easily there.

------
circlefavshape
> If anyone's at all interested ... pitch(ing) a publisher with their own book
> idea, then ... I'm more than happy to give you any advice

Really? How do I contact you?

~~~
jstanier
@jstanier on Twitter if that works for you.

------
bloopernova
Very relevant to this new team lead (since Autumn last year). I bought a copy,
I can't wait to read it :)

~~~
jstanier
Thank you! I hope it helps. Let me know if there's anything you'd like
covered.

------
yaseer
A great achievement, congrats!

Although, it may never top your blog circa 2001, it's a fine achievement
nonetheless.

~~~
jstanier
We don't talk about that blog.

------
takiavosky
Man you have a PhD. Is this book worth reading for someone who just have basic
education?

~~~
derekja
I have a PhD. The piece of paper hangs in my bathroom so I can look at it
while I shit. It was a personally fulfilling experience that taught me a lot
about academic research and and is almost completely divorced from the
practice of software engineering management. (and most other things.. I'd
suggest never being intimidated by a PhD.) The book is written on a very
approachable level, I'm enjoying it so far.

~~~
jstanier
Thank you, I'm pleased you think that. My PhD was in compilers anyway. I have
no formal management training. :-)

------
DenisM
What is the format of the book? PDF? Epub? Mobi? Html?

Is it / will it be readable on a Kindle?

~~~
code_chimp
Pragmatic Programmers beta and published books are available as all three -
PDF, epub, and mobi (which reads fine on my Kindle).

------
joselfr
Great! This is exactly what I was looking for.

Will we get the updates if we buy the beta version?

~~~
chriswitts
Yes, the betas get updated along the way, and you'll end up with the final
print version when it's done.

------
SteveMorin
Have some questions for you. What's the best way to get in touch?

~~~
jstanier
@jstanier on Twitter, or my email is in my profile.

------
ascotan
Embrace the dark side Luke.

------
theqult
<3 <3 <3

------
JNRowe
Clickable links for my fellow loafers:

[https://www.theengineeringmanager.com](https://www.theengineeringmanager.com)

[https://pragprog.com/book/jsengman/become-an-effective-
softw...](https://pragprog.com/book/jsengman/become-an-effective-software-
engineering-manager)

