
Tesla Model 3 Effect – Chevy Dealers Discount 2019 Bolt by Almost $10k - jseliger
https://www.torquenews.com/1083/tesla-model-3-effect-chevy-dealers-discount-2019-bolt-electric-vehicles-almost-10000-race-bottom-market
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BrentOzar
The cause and effect here makes no sense. The authors say one reason for the
discount is the Tesla Model 3 is selling at $36,200, but "Tesla hasn't
actually delivered any yet at that price point" (article quote, not mine) and
that's why Chevy needs to discount the Bolt to $18,995.

That's like saying wireless chargers on Amazon have to discount down to $13.99
because Apple promised to sell the AirPower someday. Those two things are just
unrelated: it might be plain old supply and demand.

My guess: Chevy has to discount the Bolt because it's simply not selling that
well. They already had to discontinue the Volt, their plug-in hybrid.

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dragontamer
> My guess: Chevy has to discount the Bolt because it's simply not selling
> that well. They already had to discontinue the Volt, their plug-in hybrid.

All auto-companies are showing declining sales. Ford, GM, Toyota, and Tesla.

I think your supposition here is most correct. The car market is declining, so
the various car companies are now cutting prices and competing on price even
more strongly. Some car models will be cut out and discontinued as a result.

~~~
vondur
I think one of the issues is that the average price of cars has risen so much.
I was watching some financial podcast/guru person who had noted that the
average car payment is now $550/month with a 69 month term for the loan.

~~~
dragontamer
> I think one of the issues is that the average price of cars has risen so
> much.

IMO, what explains the higher price is because reliability is so much better
than 20 years ago. 100k miles is so cake that no one brags about reaching 100k
miles anymore. In fact, most people today are bragging about "oil-change +
tire maintenance only for 100k miles".

Its completely reasonable to buy a car with 100k miles on it, and hope for it
to last another 100k miles on top of it (or ~7 years or so, depending on
driving habits).

In effect, a 5-year old car today is approximately worth the same a brand-new
car from the 90s. You're gonna get +100k miles off of it and not have to worry
too much about maintenance issues.

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semi-extrinsic
Is it a US thing that this is a recent development?

If you bought a used BMW or Volvo in the 90s with 150k km on it, you would
definitely have a reasonable expectation that it would last another 7-8 years.
The people I've known with extreme mileage have been like 400k or 500k km.

~~~
imglorp
Yes, some of the 80's vehicles from Detroit were very poor quality. Eg it was
well known the water pump on a Skylark would only last 30k miles but that's
what we put up with.

The manufacturing quality lessons of Honda and Toyota started to hit US in the
90s. I toured a Ford engineering division around then, where they just
starting to adopt ideas like empowered workers and continuous measurable
improvement. Anyone could stop the line if they saw a problem.

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axaxs
That's very interesting to me to read. My father worked for Ford in the late
70s, and claimed they never stopped the line, even when someone literally had
a heart attack on the job.

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imglorp
That may well have been a bogus claim - this was a tour for engineering
students they were trying to woo. There was definitely a sense of "look how
hip we are, totally not old dinosaurs! Quality is job 1" Either way, they had
to change, and they did.

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Robotbeat
Speaking personally, this is pretty straightforward.

Why would I buy a Chevy Bolt for the same price as a Model 3, even if I have
to buy it "off menu"? (And deliveries have started, BTW:
[https://electrek.co/2019/04/15/tesla-
delivers-35000-model-3/](https://electrek.co/2019/04/15/tesla-
delivers-35000-model-3/)) Or slightly more for the more available Standard
Plus Model 3?

The Bolt is wonderful, but it's limited to 50kW charging and even more
important it has no access to a consistent, strategically placed network of
well-maintained chargers spanning the continent. Basically, the Bolt is still
a city commuter which cannot feasibly take road trips of any significant
length (outside of charging corridors in the Northeast and West coast), not
too different from a Leaf, functionally.

At least with the Volt, you could still take road trips the same as any other
car.

(And all of this ignores the panoramic glass roof, the autopilot features, the
superior cosmetics, the improved per-mile efficiency, etc, etc.)

And yes, GM is in the same situation as Tesla, having the federal EV credit
phased out. And that's a major shame. GM, with the Volt in particular, was a
major pioneer in modern electric cars, along with Tesla. And now both are
being almost punished for their foresight and initiative. Shows how very
little the Congress/Administration/federal government currently values
emissions reductions or even rational industrial policy... China very likely
may end up owning the EV market.

~~~
newsoul2019
>> no access to a consistent, strategically placed network of well-maintained
chargers spanning the continent.

Isn't that called "Chargepoint"?

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toomuchtodo
The Chargepoint network is woefully inadequate (both locations and charge
speed, anything capable of less than 120kw-150kw might as well be a 120V
outlet) compared to Tesla's Supercharger network. Electrify America's network
is still in its infancy (and you can't charge a Tesla on it yet until CCS
adapters are available).

I travel cross country in the US frequently on the Supercharger network (Model
S), without any range anxiety or fear of getting to an inoperable station late
at night with little battery range left. Many hotels also have destination
chargers, so I can charge overnight at the hotel while I sleep and leave with
a full charge. I could not do this with any other EV.

~~~
tgsovlerkhgsel
> anything capable of less than 120kw-150kw

Shouldn't that be enough to charge a mostly empty battery to mostly full over
a 30 minute lunch break?

~~~
toomuchtodo
Indeed it is, but most of the ChargePoint network does not support such charge
rates.

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devy
I would argue that $10k Chevy Bolt discount wasn't originated from the
pressure of Model 3's pricing and some low moving EV models have long been
getting significant discounts off MSRP.

Back in 2017 when the first Bolt model year came out, I've got $4k cash offer
mailer from GM and another stackable $5k off MSRP from a large regional GM
volume dealership.

And Nissan Leaf have been having $10k off MSRP discounts that are subsidized
by regional power utilities too.

This is a common trend way before $35k Model entered volume production.

~~~
madengr
Maybe you are in the KC area. KCP&L had $10k rebates in Leafs. I was going to
buy a new one, but the dealers were total assholes, jacking up the prices to
compensate for the rebate.

I ended up buying a used one. I’ll buy a Tesla next, or another used, just to
not deal with scumbag dealerships.

~~~
devy
I live in Northern NJ. PSE&G did that $10k off MSRP for LEAF too a couple
years ago.

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dmode
I just bought a Model 3 yesterday. This is my second Tesla and I think it is
actually better than my S and a whole 30K cheaper. This car cost me 37k after
Fed tax credit, but still comes with Nav, premium audio, autopilot, tons of
bells and whistles and safety feature. It is a no brainer - it is the best car
in the market right now (yeah, I am biased)

~~~
warp_factor
did you even try the bolt? It would have been 10k less than yours, and based
on the review not that far away in term of comfort//performance etc.

But I bet you didn't, because you don't really care. you wanted a Tesla
because it's a hype car.

~~~
dmode
Bolt is tiny. I hate how it looks. It doesn't have Autopilot, nor does it have
a Supercharging infrastructure. It certainly doesn't have the hundreds of
bells and whistle that comes with Tesla.

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kylec
I suspect this has more to do with losing the federal subsidy than competition
from Tesla

~~~
cwt137
I agree.

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thrill
This is no particular surprise. The BMW i3 is being discounted about the same.
The real takeaway of the article to me is that "Tesla hasn't actually
delivered any yet at that price point" (the $35K Model 3). Tesla's cash
starved, as has been discussed here, and that could easily push any such
deliveries far down the road. The industry shakeouts will be interesting to
watch.

~~~
colordrops
Except they are selling the 35k model.

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danmg
Delivery is prioritized by price paid. The only way to get delivery on a tesla
model 3 is to add every option which can basically double the cost of the car.

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mjamesaustin
That's not true at all. I ordered the SR+ as soon as it was announced, and
they were ready to deliver before I was ready to receive it!

Got mine on March 30th, and love it.

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make3
I'd really like to give the Bolt a chance, but isn't the Chevy Bolt's design
really unappealing? Especially compared to the Tesla model 3. I wonder why
they made it this way. It's a matter of personal taste but I find it less
appealing than even a Honda Civic.

~~~
GiorgioG
There's a single Model 3 in my neighborhood and I don't understand the appeal
aesthetically.

I'm glad there are so many adopters for EVs (Tesla or otherwise) willing to
put up with all the downsides until the technology and infrastructure matures
to a point where it is competitive (price, charge time, range, charging
station at every gas station, etc.)

~~~
newsoul2019
Where do you live? There's 1 or 2 in every driveway around here (South Bay)

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asark
Basically anywhere not unusually rich? They're no longer Maserati-uncommon
around here like they were a few years ago (Maseratis: also rare most places)
but they're still pretty uncommon. Might see one, maybe two a day on the road
on a commute into the city and back. Some days a couple more, lots of days
zero. I think I've seen one ever in my neighborhood of 100+ houses, and I'm
not sure it belonged to anyone who lives here. And this is not an actually
_poor_ neighborhood, or even close. Just not rich.

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kozak
And that's at the time when people in Europe want to buy the Bolt for a much,
much higher price, and cannot.

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warp_factor
I'm a big believer in electric vehicles, and it really frustrates me that the
Bolt is unknown to the general public.

This car is a gem. Cheaper than a Tesla M3, and available before.

It shows once more that car buying is more about to be in a cult//group than
really about the car itself. 90% of the attraction of the Model3 is that
people will think you are somehow hype.

~~~
de_watcher
Can't really get Bolt in EU where EVs actually make a lot of sense.

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hyuuu
I believe they are called Opel over in EU

~~~
de_watcher
Can't buy them in France whatever they're called.

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Pxtl
Wait, locally discounted? Is that still how this works? Seriously, are cars
still being sold where the price varies in those crazy ways? Because those
things are sold for over $33,000 USD in Canada ($44,800 CAD). A quick check on
car search shows dealers in Canada pricing the thing at $47,000 CAD ($35,000
USD)

~~~
xnyan
Car makers and dealers learned a long time ago that consumers have wide access
to the invoice price of a car (theoretically this is the price at "cost" which
the car dealer pays) and have taken steps to obfuscate this with various fees,
kickbacks, sales bonus programs and volume sales agreements such that you
can't be sure how much margin is really in a car besides looking at the range
of actual sales rates of the car.

This is the norm and always has been as far as I am aware. If you are buying a
Toyota Camry or Honda Accord or other popular, value oriented (lower margin)
car then there may be less wiggle room in the sticker, but for a car with an
MSRP around 40k there's probably a fair amount of room to change the price.

Also, a car that never sells makes $0 in revenue. People tend to buy cars with
their heart and the cool factor/brand value of a Tesla 3 is orders of
magnitude higher than almost anything chevy makes.

~~~
Pxtl
Yes, but electrics don't stay on the lot either way. These cars all get
waiting lists when they launch.

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winter_blue
$18,995 for a all-electric car is an amazing deal. It's got really incredible
range (EPA rated 238 miles) for the price point. The other all-electric car at
this price point, the VW e-Golf, has a mileage of 125 miles.

238 miles is close to the Tesla Model 3's EPA rated 250 miles. Here's an EPA
comparison of the Bolt, Model 3, and Golf:
[https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=39786&...](https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=39786&id=41056&id=39871)

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madengr
GM better have something up their sleeve. With the plant closings to divert $
to electric and driverless R&D, I have not read of any new EV models or AI
progress.

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brokensegue
GM owns a large piece of Cruise

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DeonPenny
They own all of cruise

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brokensegue
that's a very large part

