
Show HN: WhatFreeWords: Open-Source Geocoding for What3Words - whatfreewords
https://whatfreewords.org/
======
noname120
What3words is patented[1]. If you compare the explanation of their free
implementation[2] with the claims section of the patent, it seems very
possible that it breaches the patent. In particular, the equations that are
described in claim number 7 of the patent are exactly the same as in their
explanations.

I'm not a lawyer so I can't talk about whether it can be enforced in practice.
But still, the fact that this open-source implementation doesn't reference the
patent anywhere suggests that they didn't consider the legal implications
properly.

[1]
[https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2014170646A1/fr?oq=WO%2f...](https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2014170646A1/fr?oq=WO%2f2014%2f170646+)

[2]
[https://whatfreewords.org/about.html](https://whatfreewords.org/about.html)

~~~
freeone3000
It's open source. Good luck enforcing patent claims against something that can
be copied endlessly for free. Ask how that turned out against ffmpeg.

~~~
coolspot
Codec IP owners usually grant royalty-free rights to software video players.

They make money licensing IP to hardware manufacturers.

~~~
freeone3000
MPEG-LA does not.
[https://www.mpegla.com/programs/avc-h-264/](https://www.mpegla.com/programs/avc-h-264/)
is their license scheme - while they allow a certain threshold below which
cutoff isn't required, there's a lot of companies (such as Blizzard
Entertainment!) whose primary distributed product is solely for video
playback. H.264 requires a license for personal, at-home playback of encoded
files. You have such a license if you have a Windows OS, an Apple OS, if
you're using Chrome, or if you use a set-top box, or other "single-use" device
which can play back H.264. You do not have such a license on linux with
mplayer.

------
toss1
What3Words is a horrible idea.

It's primary use is as a rent extraction device for its owners, if they can
gain sufficient market share.

It is utterly useless without their app, uses a non-universal language
(English vs math) and provides zero information about geography. The 3-word
identification strings provide not the slightest clue whether two identified
points are corners of the same building or literally on opposite sides of the
planet (vs LatLong making it obvious that e.g., 42.36N 71.31W is relatively
near 41.92N 71.48W).

It provides zero value to anyone trying to actually navigate, without using
their app, and if you are going to navigate with an app, why not use any
implementation of OpenStreetMap, or even the nearly ubiquitous Google or Apple
maps? Hell, we're even better off with old paper postal maps than this scheme.

A slight about of temporary convenience for innumerate people is no good
reason to implement a rent-extractive proprietary system.

~~~
procrastitron
I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment.

In contrast, Google’s plus codes([https://plus.codes/](https://plus.codes/))
provide the same functionality but avoid the most of the pitfalls you mention.

If you wanted to encode the same data using words instead of alphanumeric
characters (which is a debatable goal), then you could just combine it with
WCodes ([https://wcodes.org/](https://wcodes.org/))

~~~
juped
Plus codes are also unencumbered. Their main disadvantage is being saddled,
branding-wise, to the Google Plus fiasco.

------
philshem
Here's a list of other alternatives to w3w

[https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/What3words#Alternatives](https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/What3words#Alternatives)

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m-chrzan
The javascript implementation defines deg2rad as

    
    
      deg * Math.PI / 360
    

It's been a while since high school math, but shouldn't that be divided by
180? Looks like the numbers in the docs are based on this incorrect
conversion.

~~~
whatfreewords
You're right, thank you. This is a mistake. This will be corrected as quickly
as possible.

ETA: This has been corrected. Thank you.

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jon-wood
Sadly this is likely to get shut down by What3Words, who are very protective
of their algorithm.

~~~
Reventlov
The authors know that:
[https://whatfreewords.org/faq.html](https://whatfreewords.org/faq.html)

~~~
imglorp
A subpoena will figure out who they are.

~~~
StavrosK
And then extradition orders in every country they're in?

~~~
otterley
You don't have to extradite the authors if they live in countries in which
patent protection is strong and the legal systems are functional enough to
impose due process upon them and enforce injunctions/damages. Extradition is
typically a last resort, typically for criminal proceedings.

Moreover, an injunction is much more likely to be sought than damages, in
which case extradition is unnecessary - all the patentees have to do is get an
order from a judge forcing the hosts to take their code and site down.

~~~
greglindahl
Many countries don't recognize software patents, and the ones that do have
some strict rules about what patents are valid. So, are you sure that this is
a slam dunk? You don't seem to have any concept that it might be ruled
invalid.

~~~
otterley
It’s a lot easier to accomplish this under the conditions I outlined above.
That’s all I’m saying. People have gotten away with worse.

~~~
greglindahl
Many countries have strong patent protections and no software patents. If you
wanted to say "have software patents" instead of "strong patent protections",
it would make a bit more sense.

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mongol
I have only ever heard of What3words in internet tech forums etc. Is it a well
known company for the general public in some countries?

~~~
luckylion
[https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-49319760](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-
england-49319760)

Apparently some emergency services recommend & use it.

~~~
juped
No emergency service should use something patent-encumbered - but W3W markets
to them all the time.

------
acqq
Independently of the fact that I'm thoroughly against the use of proprietary
algorithm for encoding, there's an interesting problem of the implementation
of a range of similar problems to which somebody here maybe knows a nice
effective solution:

(from their FAQ):

"The JavaScript library is about 2.4 megabytes. Almost all of this data is
encoding data about how regions of the Earth are mapped to n values. There are
over 300,000 regions. The raw data for the regions is 1.8 megabytes, and
getting the data encoded in a JavaScript file raises this to 2.4 megabytes
even after compression.

The Go library is about 2.6 megabytes of source code, for similar reasons, and
produces executables of at least about 5.7 megabytes.

If you can shrink any of this data or make any other improvements, then please
contact us and we will be pleased to use your improvements."

~~~
londons_explore
For the go executable to be so much larger than the source code, when he
majority of that is data, there must be something going wrong...

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ujLion
Hello, I am Ujjwal - the inventor of WCode. Please checkout this page:
[https://wcodes.org/patents](https://wcodes.org/patents) and
[https://wcodes.org/location](https://wcodes.org/location) And my webapp:
[https://location.wcodes.org](https://location.wcodes.org)

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eruci
It's been shut down already.

------
rathel
I find the fact Steve Coast (the founder of OpenStreetMap) has worked for
what3words pretty grotesque.

[https://www.spatialsource.com.au/latest-news/founder-of-
open...](https://www.spatialsource.com.au/latest-news/founder-of-
openstreetmap-joins-what3words)

It's a shame that he didn't have enough charisma and vision to become OSM's
BDFL a la Python's Guido von Rossum. Having a single person could help
transcend the current "continue status quo" and "lean OSM Foundation that does
absolute minimum" paradigm which partially stem from from the fact that every
change would meet with some opposition (which is hard to override if there's
no clearly dominating power).

