
Dam built by robots? Japan's Obayashi tests it out - baybal2
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Engineering-Construction/Dam-built-by-robots-Japan-s-Obayashi-tests-it-out
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sriku
> "By transferring expert techniques to machines, we're able to analyze what
> was once implicit knowledge," said Akira Naito, head of Obayashi's dam
> technology unit.

That's intriguing and reminded me of the following Perlis quote -

> The only constructive theory connecting neuroscience and psychology will
> arise from the study of software.

~~~
MayeulC
Regarding the first quote: in any case, I think it's probably a good idea to
encode this implicit knowledge somewhere. A bit like code is the best kind of
specification.

Code can be studied and improved gradually. Since it guarantees repeatable
results, you can try tweaking parameters and measuring the outcome, to achieve
even better result. It's a bit like taking the highest-skilled workers,
merging their knowledge, and extending their lifespan indefinitely so that
they can continuously improve.

The only disadvantage I can see is that you're skewing the playing field in
favor of those who have access to the most data, and by reducing the workforce
size, make it difficult for someone else to obtain the same data.

At the end, a skilled worker can leave a company and make its own, or join a
rival one. An algorithm can't do that, further entrenching a select few
companies'positions, thus locking knowledge away from humankind. Companies
probably contribute to the loss of information over time (see lost knowledge:
Roman cement, massive bronze castings, etc), as free-flowing information is
against their interests, in most cases.

~~~
jacobush
> Companies probably contribute to the loss of information over time

I agree with what else you said, but I see much of the opposite process in
corporations actually. I have worked in a couple of very large corporations
and what I have seen is less of information hiding (and "not invented here")
and more of cooperation through partnerships, open source software and
standardisation of processes.

~~~
MayeulC
Of course, it isn't all bad or good, and I was just writing down my train of
thought. Corporations also contribute to maintaining that information: by
grouping together individuals skilled in the same domain, they can foster the
exchange of ideas, and by training new employees, they perpetuate those
skills. Patents are another mechanism that forces them to contribute back to
society.

Once you start training algorithms instead of people, though, you attach that
knowledge to the company, and it may not leave. In my experience, open source
software and standards are the exception rather than the norm.

~~~
jacobush
Fair point, I didn't think that deeply about trade secrets. I guess it could
be even more hidden with various forms of machine learning, even the engineers
themselves possibly couldn't explain how or why it worked when they left the
building.

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ipiz0618
To me, Japan is the country with the most creative use of "AI". Maybe there is
something to do with their perfectionism. Rather than focusing on only
software, they worked on transferring precise designs to hardware.

A while ago there was an article on HN on how Sony automated most of PS4's
manufacturing and made the production extremely efficient. It's almost like
the continuation of Japanese craftsmanship in robot form. It's beautiful and
really illustrates how the Japanese tradition is transferred to modern
machinery.

~~~
harpratap
There are drawbacks too, usually such solutions are very Japan centric and
hard to port to other countries, leading to Galapagos syndrome.

One example is bullet trains - my most favorite form of transportation but
sadly only few countries can adopt it with success similar to Japan.

Second is Osaifu-Ketai - I think this the best NFC based payment system in the
world, extremely fast and almost no learning curve. But it took way too long
to modernize it and put it inside smartphones. Is very inflexible. Licensing
is too expensive so won't be ever globally opted, so we ended up with much
inferior QR codes and slow NFC systems.

~~~
aikinai
For your second point, I think you meant FeliCa. Osaifu-keitai is the name of
the integration with phones, but FeliCa is the name of the far superior NFC
standard that never took off outside Japan.

~~~
harpratap
felica did see usage as university cards but when I say "Osaifu Ketai" I mean
the entire business model surrounding it too. Only Hong Kong successfully
implemented it.

~~~
aikinai
Oh, if you mean the model and not the technology, Apple Pay has already
accomplished far more than osaifu-keitai could ever hope to.

~~~
harpratap
Apple pay/Google pay is too slow, requires internet and has too many gotchas.
And the entire thing is controlled by Apple and Google there's no competition.
It's basically back to same old Visa & MasterCard duopoly.

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24gttghh
Where exactly is this dam under construction? "Mie Prefecture" is pretty big,
and there are a lot of rivers...

------
rasz
"The construction site in Japan where Obayashi is building a dam almost
exclusively with automated equipment" under a photo with at least 10 people.

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toss1
>>"The companies also hope that new technology could dispel negative
stereotypes of the industry among younger generations, encouraging more people
to work in construction."

Excellent - integrate high technology and make it cool - all kinds of nice
second-order effects

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techie128
While technologically cool, I think Japan could benefit from young immigrants
from different parts of the world to solve their human capital problem. This
benefits everybody.

~~~
dageshi
This argument can be made about every technological advancement ever made.
"Don't fix it with technology, just throw more people at it". That isn't how
you make progress and it doesn't benefit everybody it just encourages
stagnation.

~~~
fennecfoxen
It sure has helped the rest of the world conquer poverty. That doesn’t seem
like stagnation to me.

The more we have immigrants stocking supermarket shelves and constructing
infrastructure the more we can focus our high end R&D on things like biotech,
medicine, space, and the like. That’s economics; comparative advantage is
real.

~~~
dageshi
That's not what OP is arguing. He appears to be arguing that technological
solutions should not be tried in cases where immigration can solve the
problem.

If Japan can automate many of these things they will end up being leagues
ahead of those who solved it with immigration and will end up selling the
solutions to the rest of the world.

~~~
fennecfoxen
But why should they focus on solving "problems immigration can solve" as
opposed to "problems immigration cannot solve?" You could end up leagues ahead
of the rest of the world in something like biotech or materials sciences.
There's no intrinsic gain to be had by weighting the problem space.

