
English as she isn’t spoke (Part 4) - pepys
http://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/public/southern-rail-english/
======
fredley
The title is a reference to an (in) famous 19th century Portuguese to English
translation guide that was so unintentionally bad it remains in print.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_As_She_Is_Spoke](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_As_She_Is_Spoke)

~~~
jwilk
Non-mobile link:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_As_She_Is_Spoke](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_As_She_Is_Spoke)

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grabcocque
Many of these all examples of what Language Log terms "nerdview"
([http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4509](http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4509)),
using in-business jargon incorrectly with outsiders because you either don't
know or don't care that they won't really know what you're talking about.

It's held up as an example where your use of language, whose purpose should
always be to be understood by others, shows an explicit or implicit contempt
for your listener.

~~~
bitwize
Or maybe your brain has just gone full Sapir-Whorf and you can't _think_ about
the concepts except in jargon terms.

The vendors of PC Matic, a product aimed at the computer unsavvy, run TV
adverts in which they mention a "single pane of glass" as a feature. I had to
look up what it meant: apparently it's a buzzword for integrating information
from multiple data sources into one window. No one likely to buy PC Matic is
going to know that. Then again, given PC Matic's sterling reputation, maybe
they do hold their customers in contempt...

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Udik
Genteelisms are a curse in Italy, where bureaucracy reaches levels unknown in
the UK. One of my favourites, because of its utter, revealing stupidity, is
the sporadic usage by some overzealous bureaucrat of the verb "to implement"
(recently brought to Italian from English) with the wrong meaning of
"increment". As in:

"We're working to implement the number of bus rides from A to B".

It's fun because you can clearly see the mechanism in action: the person who
wrote the sentence decided to replace the too understandable verb "to
increment" with something so obscure he himself didn't know what it really
means.

~~~
jaclaz
I would like to bring to your attention (as an Italian) the recorded voice
message now in use on highways when you pay the toll via credit card/bancomat
(they are changing the readers from reading the magnetic band to reading the
chip, so you have to insert the card in the reader and keep it inserted a few
seconds until the flashing yellow leds become green) while a (very serious and
authoritative sounding) female voice says:

"Attendere, _validazione_ in corso."

[english]Wait, validation is under way.[/english]

Soon followed, as soon as the leds become green, by a (much higher pitch and
happy sounding) different (still female) voice:

"Ritirare la tessera"

[english]Pick up the card[/english]

~~~
Noumenon72
How does this relate to his point about genteelisms or using words that don't
mean what the user thinks they mean?

~~~
jaclaz
>How does this relate to his point about genteelisms or using words that don't
mean what the user thinks they mean?

"Validazione" is not a word used by anyone outside some specific tech sectors
or bureaucrats, a number of people would be perplexed about its meaning.

I guess in English is the same, would you use "Wait, validation is under way"
or "Wait, reading the card" or "Wait, checking the card info".

There is an old (by now noone notices it but it was a thing when it was
introduced) precedent with the verb "obliterare" which noone knew at the time
it was introduced on buses.

A sign "E' obbligatorio procedere all'obliterazione del biglietto" is (was)
something that noone could understand. [english]It is compulsory to proceed to
the obliteration of the ticket[/english]

Obliterare is a perfectly valid verb, but it means - literally - to cancel a
writing by drawing a line over it, and it was used only by academics and
people of letters, while by extension it has a more common meaning of
completely destroy/delete something/someone (from existence or from memory),
etc.

At a given time it was "invented" to mean "insert the ticket into the machine
so that it will be timestamped (or only stamped) and/or punched or have a
corner cut in such a way that it won't be re-usable".

The same meaning of "to obliterate" for "to stamp" or " to punch" a ticket is
in English as well, I believe.

And "the machine" was called "obliteratrice" of course.

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tapanjk
Links to prior parts:

Part 3: [http://www.the-tls.co.uk/english-as-she-isnt-spoke-
part-3/](http://www.the-tls.co.uk/english-as-she-isnt-spoke-part-3/)

Part 2: [http://timescolumns.typepad.com/stothard/2015/04/english-
as-...](http://timescolumns.typepad.com/stothard/2015/04/english-as-she-isnt-
spoke-part-2.html)

Part 1: [http://timescolumns.typepad.com/stothard/2013/03/english-
as-...](http://timescolumns.typepad.com/stothard/2013/03/english-as-she-isnt-
spoke.html)

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UnityRanson
Reminds me of George Carlin:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdPy5Ikn7dw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdPy5Ikn7dw)

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morinted
I went and read parts 1, 2, and 3 as well as I quite enjoyed this. However, I
think "part 4" is mainly just a rehash of part 3, as most of the examples were
the same or very similar.

[http://www.the-tls.co.uk/english-as-she-isnt-spoke-part-3/](http://www.the-
tls.co.uk/english-as-she-isnt-spoke-part-3/)

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jwilk
Archived copy, which doesn't require JS:

[https://archive.is/n9G5g](https://archive.is/n9G5g)

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JadeNB
This mostly seems like "English as I don't like her spoken"; only pt. 2
(thanks to tapanjk
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14780499](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14780499))
!) seemed to describe any actual _wrong_ language, as opposed simply to
phrasing of which the author disapproved. With that said, I don't understand
the complaint from pt. 4, recapitulated (as morinted
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14780372](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14780372))
points out) from pt. 3, about:

> you may hear that your train was “originally due to depart from Platform 4”,
> but “will now depart from Platform 6”. What’s “originally” doing there?

Surely 'originally' is serving exactly the purpose it claims to serve, of
describing the state of affairs before the alteration? What would be a better
word?

If the suggested alternative is to omit the description of the 'original'
entirely: though I'm not much experienced with the London Underground, I know
that, on the Amtrak, if I paid attention to every announcement I would go mad,
so I have a subconscious routine that perks up conscious attention only when
it detects something that seems likely to me. If I am waiting at Platform 4, I
probably won't notice a random, unprefaced announcement about Platform 6; but
I am much more likely to notice it if it points out that those of us at
Platform 4 _should_ be paying attention to it.

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proaralyst
The announcers at my station bafflingly repeat the automated announcements
word-for-word!

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cperciva
"This train is no longer in passenger service" may be long-winded, but at
least it's reasonably clear. Much better than the military equivalent, "the
train has suffered an engineering casualty".

~~~
MarkMMullin
Oh I dunno - I kinda like the engineering casualty turn of phrase :-)

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literallycancer
Might be the announcements are so long winded to give people a chance to
notice their train was mentioned and to start paying attention?

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motet_a
In France, there is a similar issue with the SNCF. More details in this
(French) article:

[http://transports.blog.lemonde.fr/2017/05/27/inoui-sncf-
jarg...](http://transports.blog.lemonde.fr/2017/05/27/inoui-sncf-jargon-
novlangue/)

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igravious
> And I simply don’t know what this means: “This is a booked four-coach
> service”.

Does it mean that the service only has four coaches and that each seat has
already been pre-booked? (That is to say, good luck, you'll probably be
standing.)

Any other possible meaning I'm having a hard time divining.

~~~
chrisseaton
I think it means it's the four coaches that they intended to have. Rather than
three because there's a problem with one of them, for example.

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jschwartzi
I'm reminded of the word de-plane, which replaced the perfectly serviceable
disembark as the term of choice for telling passengers to get out. This
happened shortly after the TSA took over and is a depressing reminder of such.

~~~
marssaxman
At some point also post-TSA, they started referring to us as "customers"
instead of "passengers", which is similarly irritating and unnecessary. It's
also less accurate, since I am always a passenger when I fly, but often not a
customer, since someone else (perhaps an employer) purchased the ticket I'm
flying under.

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kutkloon7
While reading this article it gradually appeared to me that it just HAD to be
about UK English, not US English.

