
Emotionless chatbots are taking over customer service - CarolineW
https://theconversation.com/emotionless-chatbots-are-taking-over-customer-service-and-its-bad-news-for-consumers-82962
======
hw
The number of chatbot services popping up promising to solve customer support
for businesses is concerning. I've personally had bad experiences with chat
bots when trying to get a refund and all it did was point me to some help
article that I've read, ask me a question that I've already answered before,
or worst is provide an answer that is totally unrelated to the question I
asked.

IMO, most chat bots out there are just digital reincarnations of phone VRU
systems. I don't see them taking over customer support anytime soon. Bots
should not be the front and center of customer support, but should be
assistants on the sides of both customer and the support agent to provide
sideline help while a conversation is ongoing, instead of the bot taking over
the role of the support agent.

For example, when I start a conversation with a support agent, I could be
prompted to enter my email address if I havent, or select a category
(shipping, refunds, etc), all while waiting for the agent to get back to me,
or as a starter to the conversation. On the agent side, a bot could be helping
me by suggesting responses to the customer's question and letting the agent
pick a response, instead of the bot answering the customer directly.

The human experience is crucial when dealing with a business. We're not there
yet with AI to have bots take over the entire conversational experience
between a customer and a business, so if you're building a chat bot, please
don't bring the horrible phone VRU experience to the internet.

Don't get me wrong on bots though, they're awesome when it comes to certain
situations and tasks that don't require human to human interaction and are
usually structured, like shopping. Take Shopify's Facebook Messenger bot where
a person could shop on a business's Facebook Page via their Messenger bot,
with the bot taking on the role of navigating the catalog for the user.

~~~
jacquesm
I have a simple test before I subscribe to anything: I call the support hot
line. If it is answered by a human who introduces themselves with their name
I'll give them my money. If there is no phone #, if the only kind of support
is a bot or some online tool then forget it. Companies that want to do
business without interaction with their customers will not see my patronage.

~~~
tarr11
So, no AWS [0] or Stripe [1], then?

[0] [https://aws.amazon.com/contact-us/](https://aws.amazon.com/contact-us/)

[1] [https://support.stripe.com/questions/do-you-have-a-phone-
num...](https://support.stripe.com/questions/do-you-have-a-phone-number-i-can-
call)

~~~
jacquesm
Yep. Though I love the guys behind Stripe and I sincerely hope it succeeds.

------
userbinator
I've read that some systems are deliberately designed to detect profanity and
then transfer you over to a human, so shouting "I want to talk to a real
human, not a _fucking_ robot!" might work.

...of course, that does nothing for getting to an _intelligible_ human, with
the heavy outsourcing that's happening today. In that case, maybe emailing
might be the easiest way to communicate.

~~~
tyingq
This is true in the telephony VRU world. Hard to say how many implement it,
but I have been on projects that did.

~~~
alsetmusic
I have success reaching a human via automated telephone systems by saying the
word, "operator." Last week, I encountered one that responded to the word,
"representative." I can only think of one instance that I couldn't
deliberately summon a human in quite some time.

I am interested to knows if there are non-profane keywords that are programmed
into text-based systems. I would assume that using profanity trips a flag that
indicates that the user is hostile. This might cause a human rep to enter the
chat with their guard up, less inclined to want to help the user than if the
request was delivered in a neutral tone.

~~~
s_kilk
I've had decent success with slamming on the '#' key while the bit is reading
out its spiel.

------
ourmandave
So another UI to their FAQ page.

Better than the drug store I called and had to sit for 3 minutes while their
phone bot read me the entire FAQ before I could even "press 1 for...".

Store hours, pharmacy hours, "We now offer" specials, "Did you know?" ads...
jeez.

~~~
osteele
I've encountered this with human agents too, especially when cancelling an
account or declining an upsell. The most effective humans are good at making
you think you're cancelling the account, before they even get to “connect you
with our account cancellation specialist”.

~~~
ourmandave
Ugh, the amount of f*ckery you have to wade through to cancel an account is
astounding. What's sad is, I've come to expect it.

I unsubscribed to an email newsletter recently and was shocked it only took
one click. I didn't have to check boxes or "update my profile".

In a time of fake on-line Houston Relief charity sites and endless massive
account hacks it made me suspicious it was so easy.

~~~
quickthrower2
Any email list I can't unsubscribe in one click gets marked as spam. Won't be
good for their deliverability.

Exception is if they have me by the balls i.e. a service I need to get some
emails from. Then I'll log in and figure out how to "update my email
preferences". Which are usually not my preferences at all but some silly
defaults.

The online fax company that sends me fake random floating point numbers that
represent how many dollars I owe them. They get a special rule!

------
jedberg
Does anyone remember the movie Demolition Man(1993) and the scene where
someone calls into the police department, and the human picks up the phone and
says: "Greetings and salutations. Welcome to the emergency line of the San
Angeles Police Department. If you'd prefer an automated response, press 1
now."

At the time, they were making fun of automated phone trees and the joke was
that they would get so good people would prefer them in the future.

I think many people already think that day is here. How many folks prefer to
use an online form or chat instead of a phone call? Most of those systems are
just automation with a human checking their work.

Soon the human will be out of the loop.

~~~
remir
Let's say I want to change my mobile plan:

 __Online form /self-service: __a few clicks. Done.

 __Calling my carrier: __explaining what I want, turning down the offer to
upgrade to a more expensive plan, hearing about a promotion I 'm not
interested in, etc...

~~~
misnome
Or like The Times: No online cancellation, really small telephone service
hours, "As per standard industry practice we will charge you an additional
month, two if you are cancelling in the last week/two of the billing cycle".

Somehow, though, they managed to stop my service when I cancelled my card.

~~~
aslatter
I was able to down-grade my subscription over email, which isn't as good as an
on-line form, but better than a phone-call.

------
Macha
The other part that annoys me is they can send you down courses like "no
refunds ever" because company policy says so, with no chance to get to the
stage of "Well actually a refund is legally required here because <reason>".
This is likely a unspoken benefit to the company's decision maker, because the
amount of times people will give up if they can't see a way to work around
"computer says... no" is much less than the amount of times people will take
them to small claims etc.

~~~
SomeStupidPoint
Isn't the solution just making lawyer bots?

> Company bots refuse legally required request.

> Open phone app, click a few buttons.

> Law firm drafts letter of complaint, lawyer skims it for 30 seconds.

> Law firm threatens to sue 100,000+ times across 50 jurisdictions unless
> company settles all pending cases at 10% premium of expected outcome.

> You receive payment minus $2 for legal expenses.

I actually suspect that automating both sides of that exchange will shift the
balance of power in favor of consumers, since companies already have a massive
amount of liability they're ignoring because it's difficult to extract payment
over. If you could automate that process, especially by filing a distinct case
for every contract violation or legal issue they refused to honor, I suspect
many companies would collapse.

If lawyer costs fall to the point where you can automate the suits over such
business contract violations, I expect you'd have the ability to legal DDoS a
bunch of abusive companies into submission.

~~~
sjmulder
This sounds like a Charles Stross novel. One that I'd like to read!

------
forkLding
One thing i've been reading about is game AI that despite not being very
technologically challenging, they are more designed to provide a certain
experience for the user/player be it fun, hard etc.

I think a lot of modern AI misses this where they just make a better version
of the automated phone redirecting thing (Dont remember the name for this).
They should include more ways on actually designing the whole experience and
make the users actually enjoy using the AI.

~~~
huhlig
The problem is when you're holding a conversation were sitting at the edge of
the uncanny valley. The nuances of human communication are many and subtle and
most bots come across as uncannily creepy, or develop traits like Microsoft
Tay did when she was on twitter. Getting chatbots to be both natural and
capable is very difficult task and not something that anyone I know has
actually reached. Most still fail a turing test if you give it properly and
repeatedly.

~~~
ehnto
I wonder how necessary it really is for a conversation to be involved at all,
if the bot can only have a set range of outcomes then what benefit over the
traditional dial tone based selection does it add?

It feels a bit like moving the car aircon controls to a digital touchscreen
display, sure it sounded like progress, but it really just made things more
ambiguous and harder to use.

~~~
Drakim
For the same reason Siri and Ok Google isn't just a long menu of 500 options.

Having a tone dial menu works as long as there are only a few places to route
you, and as long as all situations only have a handful of answers.

Furthermore, you can have tricks like looking for keywords in your human
speech to make sure the guy you get patched to has the expertise to help you.
If you say "my router won't turn on" you won't be sent to a password reset
monkey.

At least, that's the theory.

------
tpeo
I dislike how this makes the suggestion that the issue is that chatbots are
"emontionless" instead of just terrible.

I'm looking for something that will solve my problem, not something that will
pat me in the back and ask if I want to talk about it.

~~~
kirykl
I experienced this with human customer support recently. I started asking
questions to sort out what key piece of info I was not communicating. "Why
would your company accept that request if it's impossible to fulfill?" Instead
of working to solve with logic the rep responded to every question "oh yea
it's too bad I'm so sorry that happened"

I think they're just abused by angry customers so much it's easier to just
appease emotionally than solve unreasonable requests

~~~
rdiddly
The (attempt at) emotional comfort is just weird to me. The relationship I
want with them is "I give you money, you do what you promised." Simple! So if
I'm calling them, most likely the conversation is gonna boil down to, "Hey it
appears you're not succeeding at doing what you promised" or "Hey can you do
this other optional thing you promised?" or more rarely "Hey for some reason I
can't seem to successfully give you money."

Reading your story it actually seems like it'd be hard not to feel patronized.
Which I hadn't considered before. Usually it slips by me, masked behind my
basic assumption of good intentions, and my tendency to just ignore anything
scripted. Like at the onset of "Wow yikes ouch too bad I'm sorry that happened
for you" my brain says

 _\--- 2017-09-03-122634 -- irrelevant data stream -- waiting ---_

------
QAPereo
If it's terrible as this says, and I think it is, then it's going to create
opportunities for innovation and disruption. Maybe the next way to get hyper-
rich isn't to build Uber-4-X, but to figure out the customer service platform
that could be broadly effective for a number of industries, and be affordable.
You'd certainly be reaping rewards on par with the challenge if you figured
that one out!

------
klondike_
I find these chatbots absolutely useless when I need support for something.
They don't seem to do anything besides read off solutions to common problems
(i.e. "turn it off and turn it back on again").

If I'm going to the trouble to call or email support, I have a question that I
couldn't answer with a simple search or with a help article. Wasting my time
with frustrating chatbot doesn't get me any closer to a solution.

~~~
fivre
This is the unfortunate necessity of customer support. You may actually read
help articles and try to work through possible solutions before finally
sending a well thought-out, reasoned request for assistance, but tickets like
yours are <10% of the total at best.

The vast majority of customers ask basic onboarding questions covered by
documentation, questions entirely unrelated to the product because they don't
understand anything about it ("hello Ford dealership, I'd like to report a
pothole near my home. You deal with things related to cars, right?), or are
things that could be avoided by making the product more user-friendly if
engineering weren't focused on new feature development instead of addressing
technical debt.

Chatbots (or the rough equivalent) are a necessary evil to deal with the bulk
of customers whose first inclination to solve any problem is to call support.

------
jaclaz
In manufacturing robots have been replacing workers that already did a very
good job, somehow the engineers created these machines capable of increasing
precision and quantity produced.

In assistance they are going to replace worthless call center people that know
nothing of the matter at hand and/or have no power/autonomy to decide with
these chatbots.

It won't be that much difficult to make something _better_ than the awful
experience of talking with a clueless human, but from this to have something
actually useful for the customer there is a loooong way.

The good news are that the underpaid worker at the call center (while now
starving because of no income) will not be upset anymore by the angry
reactions of the calling customers to their nonsense, and customers will feel
much less that sense of impotence they experienced most of the time when they
attempted to report an issue, as hitting a mechanical/automated hard rubber
wall is more acceptable than having to fight for hours with humans in (often
vain) attempts to get a proper answer or to talk with someone understanding/in
charge.

~~~
nefitty
I'm in the customer service industry. A lot of issues stem from certain
customer's preconceived notions about the capability of a person on the other
side of a phone. That attitude is usually conveyed by tone of voice and
mannerism. You expect to be treated like a human, and so do customer service
workers.

I'm not surprised you have such a sour taste in your mouth when your belief is
that customer service people are worthless.

~~~
jaclaz
Well, you don't know me.

I can assure you that I am among the most polite and patient people you can
find.

And I don't - in the least - put the blame on the (usually very nice and
polite) guys/gals that answer the phone, they are (normally) very good willing
and courteous, and I always treat them with the utmost respect.

It is the management that often (not always) puts in the front line clueless
people or people constrained to follow a given (often wrong) procedure that
rarely brings satisfying results.

The Authors of the (flawed) procedures AND the call center responsibles that
blindly and senselessly implement them in extremely rigid ways (and hires, for
the sake of the low wages, largely inadequate people) are the ones to blame,
not the poor workers (the ones that will lose their already scarce income
thaks to these chatbots).

There is no reason to believe that because of the chatbots the procedures will
be bettered, nor that they will introduce more flexibility.

~~~
owebmaster
> I can assure you that I am among the most polite and patient people you can
> find.

Reading your posts (this one included), it seems to me that you are not even
among the most polite and patient people of this thread (neither I).

------
synicalx
You can't win these days, you either hit an automated _thing_ of some sort
(chatbot or otherwise) or you hit something even worse - the Indian or
Filipino call center. It's like a chatbot that doesn't comprehend ANY English,
is impossible to hear or understand, and that transfers you to another equally
useless chatbot or just leaves you in silence every few minutes.

I'll happily pay extra to be able to call and speak to a normal person who's
fluent in my language. In fact I go out of my to avoid companies that don't
meet that criteria when it comes to important stuff like power, phones etc.
Bonus points if they have a physical storefront of some sort that I can
actually walk into.

------
joecool1029
Honestly, it's probably better than T-Mobile's talk like a teenager training
for customer service.

Example of the weirdness:
[https://imgur.com/RPyhtkH](https://imgur.com/RPyhtkH)

------
Pica_soO
Very well then, i shall get me some borderline chat logs and train a NN for
customer service?

Its certainly adding to the experience one usually has with customer service-
like drunken personal, constant advances to sell stuff to you- or to put you
in the problem accelerator, by handing you around.

If the customer is king, and this is what is flung at the king, one may safely
assume, that the rattling cart below is going to the Place de l'hôtel de
ville.

------
zby
How do the chatbots work? If they only gather information to fill in a form -
then I would prefer filling in the form myself.

The other role of the chatbots might be discouraging people from doing actions
that the company does not like - like taking refunds etc. I guess there will
never be a solution in this area that would be welcomed by both customers and
companies.

By the way I have heard that in debt collection people prefer to talk to a
chatbot than to a human, because it is more impersonal.

------
tpallarino
But guys, I was told automation would solve all of our problems.

------
antisthenes
The core of the issue is that _good_ personalized customer support doesn't
scale the same way technology does and it never will. If you want to put a
face to customer support, a person helping a person, you can maybe be helping
3-5 people at once.

To help another person you have to hire another person.

A dedicated server chat-bot can be helping 500. Most companies don't want to
be customer service companies.

------
dawnerd
Twitter support bots can be really fun to mess with. Verizon's in particular
at least was pretty aggressive to assume you had a problem. Also fun to get
two of them together in a thread.

------
Uhrheber
Golden times for lawyers. Instead of talking to bots, more people will ask
their lawyers to send a serious letter to the company in question.

------
pasbesoin
I don't need more segmented, dis-jointed help -- or lack of help.

I remember 20, 30 years ago, when there was not infrequently a well thought
out and well-written manual, that actually taught you and answered many of
your questions.

When "help" was real help, that actually knew something and presented it in a
useful and authoritative fashion.

I just spent 33 days with ATT working to change an aspect of a service I
purchase. Each time I called in, I had to re-explain the whole situation to
whoever I got. They had different approaches to resolving it. There was no
formal nor permitted mechanism for them to check back that the problem had
actually been resolved. A couple took my email address and told me that their
supervisor or manager would check back with me. That never happened.

33 days later, someone in support transferred me to someone who -- I learned
near the end of the call -- was actually in sales but knew their way around
the systems and was helping out with the Hurricane Harvey related call-volume
spike.

I finally happened to get the right person. We went through the "official"
process one last time, to document it, while simultaneously escalating to the
appropriate team -- which team they happened to know of.

The next day, my service issue was resolved.

 _WHY_ wasn't that process documented internally, so that the first person I
contacted, approximately 30 days earlier (after the initial request had
obviously failed) knew what to do? Why couldn't the process be documented
externally, to me, so that I'd know where I was at and what I needed to
request?

I don't need a fucking chatbot. Just give me a page that clearly describes
what's going on and what I can do about it.

One good technical writer who researches it, writes it, clears it with
management (who may also want it cleared with legal), and publishes it.

Don't game me. Answer my fucking question. Solve my fucking problem. Leverage
the abilities of a smart, capable person by making their research results
clearly and concisely available.

If your process changes frequently, do you think it's going to be any easier
to maintain the "spaghetti" help of disjointed web pages and now chatbot
programming, that we've now come to?

No... it's that person in sales -- or wherever -- who is interested and self-
motivated enough to keep up with things, who actually solves my problem

Give them a bonus.

P.S. Another person mentions the "swearing" trigger. I've actually started
using that to get past the interminable "tree" of automated help, when/once
I've learned that it has no feature/leaf that addresses my problem.

I had to use that with ATT, to get past some nigh-permanent automated system
loops between tree leaves, to actually talk to a person. Plus, to "fucking"
talk to them without wasting minutes bouncing around the tree, with the risk
of ending up in one of the many nodes that simply hang up on you or put you in
a hold "limbo" that never gets through nor ends.

------
kermittd
I think they are often pretty bad. Too many start-ups seem to place chatbot's
in their product just because it's the right thing to do.

I think chatbots can be great but their design and implementation are often
terrible.

------
dogruck
The issue isn't as simple as what quality of service do bots provide. Instead,
it's what service, at what price. Bots are cheap, and customers have long
bemoaned the quality of human alternatives.

------
novia
Here is a recent back and forth I had with my bank. I sent the question
through their messaging service to try to avoid the long wait times on the
phone. I had to send 3 messages before my question was able to be answered.

I'm not sure if the issue was actually emotionless chatbots or if the issue
was outsourced employees who were just phoning it in by copying from a likely
question in the FAQ. I highly suspect the issue was chatbots because of their
inability to use context.

\-----------------

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:

\-----------------

I will be closing my checking account before the end of the month. Recently I
received $50 back into my account because a bill pay check was never cashed.
My question is this: If I close my checking account and then cash is supposed
to be credited back to me, would I receive that cash by a check in the mail?

Thank you,

Novia

\---------------------------------------------------------------

From : Customer Service

Sent : Received Date: 08/30/2017

Subject : Re: Account questions or requests

Dear Novia:

Thank you for contacting [Company Name]. My name is [Name #1], and it is my
pleasure to assist you today.

When a merchant issues a credit to an account that is no longer open, the
credit will be applied to an open checking, savings, or prepaid account.

If you do not have any open checking, savings, or prepaid accounts with
[Company Name], the credit will be returned to the merchant. Please contact
the merchant for more information.

Credit for returned card purchases usually post within 5 business days but may
take up to 15 business days to post to your account, depending on when the
credit is processed by the merchant. Returns will display on your statement as
"Purchase Return."

If we can be of further assistance, please respond to this email by clicking
on the "Reply" button or call us anytime at 1-800-###-####.

On behalf of [Company Name], thank you for your business. We are happy to have
you as our customer and appreciate the opportunity to assist you today.

Sincerely,

[Name #1]

[Company Name]

\-----------------

NEXT MESSAGE:

\-----------------

[Name #1]....

Your response did not address my concerns.

I am asking about a "stale dated check" that would be returned to my account
because it was never cashed. Please look at my account history and see the $50
credit that was applied recently because of exactly this situation. If my
account had been closed, what would have happened to that $50?

The merchant is not the one initiating the return. It is happening
automatically on [Company Name]'s end because a certain amount of time has
elapsed since the check was issued.

Thanks,

Novia

\---------------------------------------------------------------

From : Customer Service

Sent : Received Date: 08/31/2017

Subject : RE: Re: Account questions or requests

Dear Novia:

Thank you for replying to our recent email. My name is [Name #2], and it is my
pleasure to assist you today.

I understand your concern regarding a Bill Pay check that was not cashed.

I realize the importance of this issue.

I would like to inform you that whenever a Bill Pay item is remitted by
physical check and that check has not cleared after 90 days, the check is
stopped and the funds are automatically credited back to your account.

As the Bill Pay check has not been cashed, we can place a stop payment on the
check. There is no charge for this stop payment. If you would like to request
a stop payment on this Bill Pay payment, please click the "Reply" button to
submit your request. Please be sure to provide us with the payee name, the
amount of the payment, and the date the payment was debited from your account.
If we are able to stop the payment, your account will be credited within five
business days.

If you have any further questions or concerns, please respond to this email by
clicking on the "Reply" button or call us anytime at 1-800-###-####.

On behalf of [Company Name], thank you for your business. We are happy to have
you as our customer and appreciate the opportunity to assist you today.

Sincerely,

[Name #2]

[Company Name]

\-----------------

NEXT MESSAGE:

\-----------------

Please forward my prior two emails to an actual human so they can respond to
my inquiry. The past two responses have sounded like they were generated by
robots.

Novia

\---------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: RE: Re: Account questions or requests

From: Customer Service

Received Date: 09/01/2017

Timestamp: 05:53

Dear Novia:

Thank you for replying to our recent email. My name is [Name #3], and it is my
pleasure to assist you today.

I apologize that our previous emails did not correctly address your concern. I
would like to take this opportunity to do so now.

Novia, I understand you are planning to close your account. Also, the Bill Pay
check was never cashed and you would like to know if you close your account
and the cash is suppose to be credited back to your account, if you would
receive the cash by check in the mail.

Yes, when a Bill Pay payment is returned and the original funding account has
been closed, a check will be sent by U.S. Mail to the most recent address on
record. Please allow up to 10 business days for delivery.

If you have any additional questions or concerns, please call us anytime at
1-800-###-####.

Novia, ensuring that you have the best possible banking experience is of the
utmost importance to me, as you truly are a valued customer.

On behalf of [Company Name], thank you for your business. We are happy to have
you as our customer and appreciate the opportunity to assist you today.

Sincerely,

[Name #3]

[Company Name]

~~~
userbinator
Wow, even the third try was ridiculously verbose and robot-ish --- as if a
human was trying to emulate a chatbot. I'd prefer an answer more like this:

    
    
        > If I close my checking account and then cash is
        > supposed to be credited back to me, would I receive
        > that cash by a check in the mail?
    
        Yes.

~~~
jwilk
I guess the human didn't type that spontaneously, but just sent the _correct_
canned response?

But then there's a typo in the reply ("is suppose"), so maybe not...

~~~
BenjiWiebe
Automated canned responses can still have typos. :)

------
newscracker
I wonder if this is really a step down from the templatized and scripted
answers that _real humans_ have been providing over email or chat for a long
time. Customer service has, in general, been terrible across many companies
and business domains. If companies are prioritizing cost over service quality,
as they have been doing all along (except for a few), such articles alone
won't help.

------
gcoda
There should be no customer service.

It is not bad news. Automated registration of user complains should drive
product development. Few people complained to a bot and problem should get to
kanban board of developers.

If you need service, you got a bad product, good products need no customer
support.

Bots are good scalable way for constant improvement based on feedback. It's a
temporary crutch.

~~~
BenjiWiebe
Any product with a large enough userbase will need customer service:

A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely
foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.

    
    
        Douglas Adams

