
Georgia School Reopening Photo Even Worse Than It Appears - laurex
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/mollyhensleyclancy/georgia-school-reopening-photo-paulding-county
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enzanki_ars
The worst part too is the fact that the students posting those photos have
been suspended with potential for expulsion.

[https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/laurenstrapagiel/north-...](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/laurenstrapagiel/north-
paulding-high-school-suspensions-for-hallway-photos)

~~~
HumblyTossed
The principal doubled down and said any student found criticizing the school
on social media could face disciplinary consequences.

WTAF? So, now students can't criticize the schools!?

~~~
schoen
There's been litigation about this kind of issue all over the country for
years (disciplinary action by public schools against students for their off-
campus speech about the schools) and the students commonly win, although the
legal rules can be complicated in comparison to rules about adults' speech.

There's also a common pattern where school administrations don't seem to know
much about earlier court decisions about students' rights. The Supreme Court
said back in 1943 that public school students couldn't be forced to say the
Pledge of Allegiance

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_E...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_Education_v._Barnette)

but I remember in 1997 meeting a girl who had been disciplined for not saying
it at her public school, and hers was far from the last case.

These students could probably get pro bono legal representation and send a
demand letter to the principal over this. [Edit: because of the social media
aspect, the students could contact the intake coordinator at EFF, where I used
to work, and they could likely get a helpful legal referral.]

Although I hope the students' speech rights will be fully vindicated, I notice
that I also have more empathy for school administrations than I used to.
Public school administrators have a ton of responsibility, many angry
constituents with opposing views, few resources, and lots of complicated legal
constraints, and are not necessarily experts on all the issues that will come
up unexpectedly.

~~~
AnimalMuppet
> Although I hope the students' speech rights will be fully vindicated, I
> notice that I also have more empathy for school administrations than I used
> to. Public school administrators have a ton of responsibility, many angry
> constituents with opposing views, few resources, and lots of complicated
> legal constraints, and are not necessarily experts on all the issues that
> will come up unexpectedly.

I have sympathy for the spot the school administrators are in. Many of their
students' families depend on having both parents working in order to survive.
Those parents need the kids to be in school. But if they reopen, the schools
are almost certainly going to spread an infection that kills people. The
administrators have no good options, merely a choice between different kinds
of bad.

Suspending the kids who posted the video? No sympathy. That's a total jerk
move.

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owly
Schools enforce dress codes all the time. No mini skirts, no tank tops, no
sandals, no hats, etc. There’s zero reason why they couldn’t make masks
mandatory.

~~~
ISL
If masks are perceived as political (which IMO, they shouldn't be, but
fortunately I don't rule the world), then the Court may protect the right not
to wear a mask:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinker_v._Des_Moines_Independe...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinker_v._Des_Moines_Independent_Community_School_District)

~~~
happytoexplain
Surely threat to safety - real or perhaps even only perceived - would affect
this?

~~~
gremlinsinc
It's as if you expect logic to matter in American politics.

------
politician
The worst part about this is the last sentence that any students found
criticizing the school on social media will face disciplinary measures. I’m
aghast.

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pxeboot
I am surprised the districts lawyers and insurers are okay with this. Surly
there will be lawsuits over this for years once students and teachers start
getting sick.

~~~
Consultant32452
The CDC has recommended schools reopen. I'm not suggesting that's a good
recommendation or a bad one. But when the CDC and/or state health board says
you can open, you can open. This is the government version of regulatory
capture.

~~~
zarq
I have trouble understanding why this prevents anyone from taking legal
action. Maybe the action cannot be directed against the schools, but surely in
this case you can challenge the CDC guidelines, because there seems to be
direct proof of personal injury (i.e. getting ill) as a result of this? How
does this work?

~~~
Consultant32452
The Department of Transportation recommends allowing people to drive on the
roads, but you don't get to sue them just because there's a car accident. We
know, statistically, that some people will die going to school even without
COVID. The CDC and other regulators are taking a broad view that includes 2nd
and 3rd order effects from their recommendations. They're trying to make
decisions for the long term while recognizing that any decision they make in
either direction is going to result in deaths.

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mrguyorama
How can you possibly believe this is the right thing to do? I just don't
understand

~~~
throwaway0a5e
It all comes down to who the people making these decisions are trying to
please. The elected officials (assuming they're at least sort of doing their
job) are acting on what they think will please the most voters. The net
difference in the number of constituents hate this option, the next option,
and every other feasible option for the school year is likely very small. This
is what the tyranny of the majority looks like.

But of course thinking about the incentives and mechanisms that lead to this
outcome is uncomfortable and clutching our pearls is comfortable and easy so
what we'll do is a forgone conclusion.

Edit: I'm personally no fan of the policy the school chose but asinine or not
they didn't choose it for no reason and it's worth exploring what lead to the
people making the decisions to choose what they chose.

Edit2: Some of you would do well to read only the words I am writing here and
not assume any unwritten meaning or motivation. I am specifically trying to
avoid debating whether this particular instance of public policy is
good/bad/right/wrong and some of you seem to be very eager to do just that.

~~~
DonnyV
During a health crisis popular or unpopular does not matter. You do what is
necessary wither you like it or not. What these "leaders" are doing is
complete incompetence and negligent.

~~~
zentiggr
The problem is that 'necessary' to the people driving the Georgia decisions
seems to be 'necessary to support my beliefs and my fiscal policy', not
'necessary for the best good of all'.

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tunesmith
"Well, I don't want you to go to school, but the school board said you might
be suspended or expelled, so I guess you should go to school..."

I don't have kids that go to school, so what really happens if you keep your
kids out of school? What can the school really do to you or your kid?

~~~
deelowe
Expel you and cause you to miss a grade. They can also place your kids into a
remedial program which means they'll go to schools which are designated for
problem children when they return. In addition the learning environment being
worse, those schools can be pretty far out of the way for parents. Also, if
you're expelled, you won't get to take the state/federally mandated tests. I'm
not sure of the impact of this, but I think it can be pretty bad.

~~~
zentiggr
Sue the living hell out of the school district and he returns to school and
end of story.

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chrisseaton
I don't know anything about American term dates - but isn't it the middle of
summer? Did they restart early or delay breaking up?

~~~
steverb
A lot of US schools start in early - mid august and go through late May to
early June. It varies by locality though.

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newacct583
OK, so to be completely objective here: the crowd in that photo isn't really
the problem per se. That's a transient crowd between classes, the kids are
walking past each other quickly and then disengaging after a minute or two as
they enter their next class. That's not a known high risk situation, existing
superspreader events almost exclusively tend to be more static: restaurants,
cruise ships, theaters/arenas, that sort of thing: places where people are
near an infected person and stay there for a bit.

The thing to worry about with school openings is the classroom, not the
hallway. The fact that this hall is so packed tells me that the classes are
probably at capacity too. That's worrisome for sure.

And it's a bad, bad state for this to be happening. GA continues to have one
of the worst infection rates in the country, and contra others (AZ and CA) it
still seems to be at its second-wave peak and hasn't dropped much yet:

[https://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-
visualization/?chart=states...](https://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-
visualization/?chart=states-normalized&highlight=Georgia&show=us-
states&y=both&scale=linear&data=cases-daily-7&data-
source=jhu&xaxis=right#states-normalized)

~~~
fedorareis
I would say you are right the classrooms are more worrisome, especially since
I doubt the desks are being wiped down between students.

I would say that the hallway is still worrying. It isn’t just students walking
past each other. I’m sure they are bumping into and brushing up against each
other. In my experience it is hard to avoid when you are rushing to your next
class in a crowded hallway.

~~~
DuskStar
> especially since I doubt the desks are being wiped down between students.

Being more pedantic, but as far as I'm aware there's minimal evidence of
infection from contaminated surfaces rather than airborne droplets.

------
moistly
1) Teach your child to read (basic phonetics and sight words).

2) Encourage/have them read a lot of different stuff.

3) Have them explain what they’re reading.

4) When possible, support them in applying what they learn.

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beepboopbeep
None of this is rational or remotely within the realm of objective reality.
The people making these decisions should be liable for gross negligence and
manslaughter should it come to it. There is no excuse for sending kids to
school during a pandemic. Absolutely absurd.

~~~
commandlinefan
But all of those kids were at the same risk for the regular seasonal flu,
which is just about as dangerous to their age group, at this same time last
year. And will be at this same time next year, even if they cure COVID-19
completely. If your standard for opening a school is "nobody can get sick",
you can never open a school.

~~~
zentiggr
Or a non-sympomantic kid gives it to another, who goes home and gives it to
someone immunocompromised, like _me_. If I get this, I have a high chance of
hospitalization and all the organ damage and ventilator consequences and etc
that the flu has no serious chance of causing.

Your 'not so bad' doesn't cover the real potential costs.

~~~
commandlinefan
But that was all true, of a thousand potential diseases, this same time last
year. And it will all be true, of a thousand potential diseases, this same
time next year, too.

~~~
moistly
But is it? _Really?_. ‘Cause, y’know, I don’t recall the last time a disease
overwhelmed hospital capacity. Only time I’ve seen refrigerator trucks full of
bodies has been after a huge hurricane. IMO it has been a long while since we
had such a serious pandemic. I don’t think your claim is at all true. There
are, in fact, very few diseases as threatening as this one.

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ryandrake
I wonder if any of the politicians who were part of the decision to re-open
schools, from the governor down to the school board members, would be willing
to sit in that hallway unmasked for a day. Nope, I bet they made the decisions
over Zoom calls, safely tucked away in their homes.

~~~
zentiggr
Or, since they know some staff are infected, maybe call an all-hands mandatory
staff and board meeting to discuss how to handle new cases... make it an all
day meeting, in the smallest conference room taht could hold the number of
people.

Plenty of water, no kleenex.

That's how it's done, right?

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mnm1
This reopening is criminal. The DA should charge the superintendent with
endangering child welfare and I'm sure they can think of a dozen other types
of charges times for a few hundred student victims they could bring on. Well
at least now we know that even "think of the children" was always a lie in our
culture. The culture does not care if children die unnecessarily.

