
A Story About Piracy - cwyers
http://maggie-stiefvater.tumblr.com/post/166952028861/ive-decided-to-tell-you-guys-a-story-about
======
drewg123
I wonder how much of this is due to greedy publishers overpricing ebooks? I
just looked up one of her books ("The Raven King"). Amazon has the paperback
for $9.45 and the e-book for $11.99.

In what world does it make any sense for an ebook to cost _more_ than a
physical book? The physical book needs to be printed, warehoused and
delivered. The ebook just just bits in the cloud that cost cents to store and
transmit to customers.

I do not personally think that this justifies piracy, but it might explain why
some people feel justified in pirating books.

~~~
latortuga
This is a cost-centric view of the price, when a value-centric view may be
more useful. The ebook can be downloaded and taken everywhere without having
to lug and lose an extra item in your bag. The ebook can be read on multiple
devices seamlessly. The ebook can be retrieved from the seller in the event
you lose it.

And the content is the same, you're paying for the same work. So you are
paying $2 more for a ton of increased convenience.

You can rent physical DVDs from the library for free. Yet you pay for Netflix.
Such a greedy publisher, enabling us to do things more easily.

~~~
drewg123
To turn that around, one could argue the ebook has a lower value since it is
easily pirated. It is competing with a version of itself that costs $0.00 and
a few minutes of web searching.

~~~
latortuga
I'm not trying to debate whether an ebook or a physical book is better or
worse and I feel like most in this thread have willfully misinterpreted that.
My point was that if you consider just the cost of a good, you are likely to
run into "how can this possibly be fair" scenarios. But cost isn't the only
thing that factors into price, whether you like the good or not.

Ebooks and physical books have different uses, different distribution,
different benefits, different downsides. They aren't identical and it's not
surprising or unfair that they're priced differently.

~~~
adavis321
I understand how the "value argument" influences the initial price of a good,
but once it is out in the market demand should be taken into account. If a
product's supply is (practically) infinite and its demand is low, then the
price should be low. Anything else smacks of poor business decision making or
price fixing.

------
computator
I say with sadness that the Internet has nearly killed the prospect of making
a living as an author, and no amount of passionate speech is going to change
that fact.

No one should go into any of the following professions with any expectation of
making money:

1) Writing of any kind (fiction, non-fiction, technical articles, journalism
-- forget about it)

2) Digital art of any kind (see DeviantArt for millions of super-talented
creations that haven't earned a cent)

3) Photography of any kind (see Shutterfly for millions of photos better than
anything you ever took and yet no one will ever pay for)

4) Composing music or lyrics

It rather surprises me that software, a creative and digital medium like the
above, is not futile and that you can still make a good living at it.

~~~
prepend
Photography is alive and well as a service rather than a thing. The days of
buying a print are gone (or will be soon) but tons of people make a living
doing portraits, weddings, events, headshots, etc.

It’s a different model, but I suspect more money is made because taking
pictures is hard. The pictures are free (ie, included) but it costs a lot to
hire a photographer.

That’s how software lives as a profession.

~~~
samastur
It is alive, but certainly not well. There are fewer making a living doing it
and among those who are, most earn far less than they used to.

Source: my wife is a photographer and consequently I follow photographers more
than I'd otherwise.

~~~
prepend
Funny my wife is a photographer too and I follow lots of photogs and see
growth over the past year.

BLS [0] is forecasting -6% drop from 2016 to 2016, but 12% growth in self
employed photographers.

So yeah, it’s not doing so well in general. But it’s gangbusters in her
segment (all digital experience photography)

[0] [https://www.bls.gov/ooh/media-and-
communication/mobile/photo...](https://www.bls.gov/ooh/media-and-
communication/mobile/photographers.htm)

------
anhner
What the author didn't (and couldn't) include in their calculations is how
many of those that bought the fourth book were hooked in the series BECAUSE
they pirated the book(s).

How many sales would she have had if there were absolutely no copies available
online for free for any of the books?

I admit, I pirated when I was young because I didn't have any money and many
books weren't available in my country (or would only become available after
some years). Now that I have money and I'm into reading, I spend a lot more on
books than I would have if reading wasn't available to me.

~~~
llampx
If someone pirated book one and/or book two, what is the likelihood that
they'll go out and buy book three? Keeping in mind that some % of people will
have a conscience twinge or be earning much more than previously so will feel
like they can afford the book rather than just go on over to their favorite
site and download it.

~~~
deogeo
A study was done on this question, and it found the effect of piracy on sales
is negligible/immeasurably small: [https://juliareda.eu/2017/09/secret-
copyright-infringement-s...](https://juliareda.eu/2017/09/secret-copyright-
infringement-study/)

The study was done with public funds, but since publishers didn't like its
findings, it was buried. So publishers are misusing public money to try and
mislead people into supporting more restrictive copyright laws, and they're
using lobbying and legalized bribes to get elected officials to pass those
laws.

They use lies, deception, and bribery in a hostile attempt to reduce our
freedom so they can increase their profits. So why the _hell_ should we
respect their IP, when every cent they earn will be used against us?

------
godelski
Are there studies about how piracy affects different industries? I would
imagine that books are different than movies or music. My reasoning:

Books take a lot of effort to get through. If you are going to read a book
you're really going to invest time into it. (assumption: everyone that would
actually purchase the book intends to read it)

Movies are just an hour or two. Not much time investment. Many times people
will sit down to watch a movie they don't care much about just to kill time,
or put it on in the background. Like someone might pirate a movie because they
1) can't find it playing in theaters around them (more common than you think)
2) friends told you not to waste your money 3) you're bored of the shit on
Netflix and need some other background noise while you browse the internet.

Music is often used as background noise too, and I imagine this changes the
psychological impact of piracy.

Also, I think I lot of people feel like the movie studios, record labels, and
publishers are just over charging them. It's not hard to see, especially with
the first two. A $20 movie (before popcorn) for an hour and a half of "ehh"
and the studio made tens of millions of dollars in box office. Or knowing an
artist gets chump per album sold (or worse when streaming). I would suspect
people take this same notion to books. Especially when they see that an ebook
is more expensive than the physical one. Most people interpret this as "well
that's messed up". But I'd also imagine that book sales are hit harder than
music and movies (at least to the artists).

~~~
larkeith
It would also be interesting to see the impact of distribution platforms and
media formats - one would imagine that more fragmented markets (e.g. HBO
exclusive shows) have higher incidents of piracy, as consumers can then find
all their interests in one centralized location, rather than a dozen different
subscription services. DRM also presumably provides some increase - while it's
(thankfully) dead for music, it seems alive and well for TV.

------
AdmiralAsshat
It's impressive that people will suffer the agony of trying to read a book in
PDF form for the sake of getting it for free.

After discovering the EPUB/MOBI formats and the joy of having text dynamically
scale on my phone/tablet, it's very difficult to go back trying to read an
extensive document in PDF. On anything but a PC it just feels archaic.

~~~
aaaaaaaaaaab
EPUB/MOBI is good for prose.

On the other hand, as of today, technical documents, scientific articles,
anything with nontrivial illustrations/typesetting has to be displayed in PDF
to avoid unexpected results. Maybe we'll see changes in this regard,
facilitated by the emerging interactive jupyter-like document formats, but PDF
is here to stay for a while.

~~~
alpaca128
Sure, but if you've got an ebook reader(which usually means 6-7 inch screen
size) you don't want to use PDF unless it's absolutely necessary.

------
gnomewascool
Archive.today link to avoid tumblr's "consent" page, which blocks NoScript and
is generally annoying:

[http://archive.fo/0T6Nb](http://archive.fo/0T6Nb)

More on topic, please do pay for creative (and technical!) work that you get
for free (legally or otherwise), if you enjoy it.

~~~
sempron64
Funnily I found that the article reads perfectly fine on Firefox Mobile with
NoScript -- I didn't even notice that it was on Tumblr until reading the
comments.

~~~
mirimir
That's probably because you're not in the EU.

------
licebmi__at__
This seems to me like a story about viral marketing rather than about piracy.

For my experience from the time where I spent more time on leisure sites and
fandom sites, it's pretty likely we would organize a scavenger hunt and had a
lot of discussions if we encounter a fake ebook with the characteristics
described. That certainly would look like a viral marketing campaing.

------
zaarn
I think this is more a story about the publisher; it wasn't piracy that
decided to cut the print, it was the publisher.

However, the problem with "piracy doesn't hurt sales" is that it is only true
when you provide a service just as good as the pirates.

If buying your book on amazon is a hassle, moreso than downloading a PDF on a
forum, then people will pirate it. Amazon requires you to search the book, put
it in your basket, go to checkout, pay, then download it on your kindle and
read. The forum download requires you to download it and put it on your
kindle. Maybe it is time for a Netflix for Books, especially with more digital
books being sold.

That my assertion holds water is I think proven by piracy being on the rise
again, now that streaming services have more exclusives, making it harder and
more expensive to get the shows legitimately.

~~~
jasonkester
I have no idea how to get a random PDF onto my kindle. Getting a _book_ there
is easy though.

You can find and buy one on the device itself, or find and buy one on Amazon
and it'll magically show up on the device. It literally is just clicking a
single button.

I can't even imagine a way you could remove any steps from the process if you
were designing it from scratch.

~~~
blacksmythe

      >> no idea how to get a random PDF onto my kindle.
    

Amazon gives you an email address; just attach the file to an email.

[https://www.amazon.com/gp/sendtokindle/email](https://www.amazon.com/gp/sendtokindle/email)

------
Lt_Riza_Hawkeye
I find it hilarious that they have https working properly, but visiting this
URL with https redirects back to http

------
content-maker
Disclaimer: I made some passive money selling software and I've been damaged
by piracy (so much that I had to stop selling). I was lucky enough to be my
own publisher, though.

I still think that piracy should be legal, while breaking a contract and
redistributing should be punished. This shouldn't happen automatically (like
the copyright infringement letters in Germany) or handled by taxes (like the
hard disk tax in some European countries), it needs to be handled in court, as
a breach of contract. The fact that this is not the default and that your
government/ISP is selling your data so easily, really points out how this is
just lobbying from the media corporations and the umpteenth case of corruption
of the government.

What if justice is too slow? Complain about your inefficient public courts and
push for a private, faster system.

If you look at this from a wider perspective, people able to make money
passively work once and gains for months or years to come. It depends on the
type of good you're producing - but it can be wildly profitable or put you on
a diet.

Given you're profiting from selling one thing to many, it should be your
problem enforcing and/or suing people sharing your work. You have one-to-many
benefits, you get one-to-many costs.

Will piracy kill some content and push the market in a different direction?
Most likely, but that's what people want. You can see it in software with
SaaS, in movies with Netflix, in music with Spotify.

I know it sucks to be in the spot of penniless painters, but it's how society
evolved. You need to evolve yourself.

------
jasonkester
Authors need to frame the conversation better: It's a contract. You don't get
to read my book unless you pay me money.

It doesn't matter that the author still has a copy or whether you think you're
"stealing". None of that matters. You can do whatever you like, so long as you
give money to the author before you consume their thing. That's the deal, take
it or leave it.

Frame the transaction that way, and at least you won't get so many people who
think they haven't done anything wrong.

~~~
lambda_lover
So if I go to my local library and check out a copy of the book (that my taxes
paid for, presumably) I'm stealing from the author?

I pirate most of my ebooks because they're typically poorly made ports of the
physical books. When I truly enjoy reading a book, I order a physical copy and
add it to my shelf, so the physical copy becomes a) a conversation piece in my
home 2) a decoration 3) available for my next read. But because I do most of
my reading on the subway or while travelling, I still lean toward using my
Kindle most of the time.

------
jumbopapa
All I ask is that an ebook be included with the physical copy. I don't want to
haul the physical copy around, but I do want to support authors.

I've been using the library lately anyways. I'm so far behind on books that
I've wanted to read that there's no real reason to follow new releases, so the
library typically has what I want.

------
luqven
Could t agree more, save for one point; include the kindle/ereader version
with the print copy.

It’s the only reason I would ever consider downloading a PDF of a book. I buy
it and love it, only I can’t take it with me on top of the 1000 other things
in my bag. So now I’m looking for a pdf..

------
johnny313
This is a great experiment, and shows the value of getting solid data to back
up a theory.

------
mirimir
> Before you continue, an update from us

> Tumblr is now part of the Oath family. Please review Tumblr’s updated Terms
> of Service and European Privacy Policy. Due to EU data protection laws, we
> (Oath), our vendors and our partners need your consent to set cookies on
> your device to use your search, location and browsing data to understand
> your interests and personalise and measure ads on our products. Oath will
> also provide personalised ads to you on our partners’ products. Scroll down
> to review some privacy updates and set your preferences.

> Tip: Log in to your account to avoid repeating this across your devices.

Damn. Oath are unmitigated evil. And that BS does not satisfy GDPR. Needing to
track for personalized ads is _not_ a valid business purpose.

Anyone have a reachable link?

Edit:
[https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:L4D4AN...](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:L4D4ANYBLNgJ:maggie-
stiefvater.tumblr.com/post/166952028861/ive-decided-to-tell-you-guys-a-story-
about+&cd=6&hl=de&ct=clnk&gl=de)

~~~
llampx
Right click -> Open in private window

~~~
mirimir
Thanks, but that doesn't work for me. And anyway, I always use private
windows. I'm pretty sure that it's just my German IP address that's triggering
it.

------
aaron695
People seem to be missing the fact the book was ONLY available as a pirate
copy, this leaves fans with hard options.

This seems like step one of issues to solve, don't pre-release ebooks.

~~~
RandomBacon
Agreed. If you have fans, they will do whatever they can to read it as soon as
possible. Example: people lining up at book stores for midnight releases of
Harry Potter novels.

I imagine if the e-arc was leaked after the release date (after the vast
majority of people bought an ebook copy), then the e-arc would have had a
negligable affect on sales.

------
thraway-burnout
There's no such thing as piracy. If your business model doesn't work in a
post-physical-scarcity world, you need to change your business model.

~~~
thraway-burnout
Peeps, downvoting is easy. Anyone has counter-arguments?

~~~
andrewflnr
> There's no such thing as piracy.

There's no counter-argument because you have no argument at all, just a
brazenly re-defined term.

A rational discussion requires shared language. You've thrown that out the
door right at the start.

