
Ask HN: A 19 year old, what should I do? - coolsebz
Hello HN people,<p>I&#x27;m feeling lost for a while and all the local people who I&#x27;ve tried getting in contact with, well, they all say the same thing over and over again. I want to drop college.<p>The big problem is that everyone is trying to make me feel bad about this, as if this would be the end of the world, as if there are only 2 choices in life: college or be a bum.<p>For me this feels wrong. I mean, I&#x27;ve started programming for fun at a really young age, and I&#x27;ve managed to get my first (full-time) job in the summer break after 10th grade and continued until I finished my high-school. Since then I&#x27;ve worked with a different company and in my spare time I&#x27;ve tried starting various projects of mine.<p>As I&#x27;ve said, I&#x27;ve started programming out of pure pleasure, and I consider that I&#x27;ve learned a lot like that, and now it feels like the only way to get by in life would be for me to merge back into some kind of slow-lane. I&#x27;ve tried going to college, and teachers either told me that I will be bored at their courses or that they will give me some extra course work (which the did only for the first time). The companies that I&#x27;ve worked for just treated me like some kind of valuable asset, and didn&#x27;t even have a &quot;career path&#x2F;planning&quot;. I&#x27;ve stayed in a company for 1 year and carried out quite a lot of the work and was underpaid compared to the local standard. And when I left, they just told me they expected that to happen at some point.<p>It&#x27;s really hard for me to believe that there is no place for people like me. All I&#x27;m trying to do is to keep learning at the same speed and with the same passion, bring my contribution to the world, but people just tell me that I&#x27;m too young, not experienced, etc.<p>Please HN people, tell me your opinion, help me understand what I should do!<p>*Sorry for my english, I may have slipped a couple of mistakes in.
======
patio11
I'm not sure where you're physically located, but if you were a young cousin
of mine on either the US or Japanese sides of the family, I'd tell you get the
degree. If you feel that college is too easy mode for you, feel free to take
more difficult or eclectic courses, or throw yourself into extracurriculars.
(It's a great time to learn a foreign language.)

Why get the degree?

1) Because there is no circumstance where having an undergraduate degree makes
you worse off than not having it.

2) Because now is the easiest and cheapest time in your life to check the
degree box.

3) Because the opportunity to be a college student may, if you take advantage
of it, give you the option to ease into parts of being an Honest to God Adult
(TM) like, e.g., resolving conflicts with people who aren't family members or
keeping a budget or juggling multiple priorities at once. It can be easier to
get adjusted to this sort of stuff when you are not _also_ getting adjusted to
the wild world of working.

4) Many employers in our line of work do not strictly speaking require a
degree. Unfortunately, you will occasionally in life be called to deal with
people of good will who have irrational requirements. For example, governments
and future mothers-in-law may have absolute requirements for college degrees.
Check the box today, avoid a heck of a lot of stress in eight years.

You've got the rest of your life to work on the career thing. Trust me, it's
plenty of time.

If you drop out, are you condemned to being a bum? Not in the least.
Recommendations at this point would differ based on where you live, but
they're probably going to sound like some variant of "Find a clueful company
which has room for a young engineer to both learn from more experienced
engineers and also meaningfully impact the organization. Work for them for 3-4
years then reassess."

~~~
coolsebz
Thank you for your response! I'm living in Eastern Europe, Romania; not
exactly a tech hub, which is why the college level is so low :/ Most of what
I've learned is from free available resources (books, lectures, you name it)
Thanks for the points on why I should get the degree, they make sense!

~~~
pyduan
Here are two other arguments in favor for college on top of patio11's:

1) While you may be worried about the _depth_ of the content in your field, be
aware that college is also a great way to acquire _breadth_ : this is the best
way to be exposed to ideas you wouldn't have encountered before, and I'd
encourage you to take courses outside of your field. Economics, philosophy, or
political science come to mind as topics that may not be directly useful to
you in your career but do help tremendously in understanding the world around
you and being a more complete individual in general. This is also a great time
to live and study abroad, which is a great life experience in general. This
will also be very useful if you ever decide to branch out and work in a
different field, where you may feel your lack of degree much more than in
tech.

In addition there is nothing wrong with getting "extra coursework" in college.
Unlike high school, the goal here is to learn for your own sake and there is
always the possibility to dig further if you're interested in acquiring highly
specialized knowledge.

2) A degree is not simply useful for convincing old-school employers. You work
in tech, so I assume there is a probability that you may want at some point or
the other want to check out the scene in the US. If this is something that
interests you, be aware that it is tremendously harder to get a work visa to
the US if you don't have a higher education degree. Most work visas will
require a degree or equivalent work experience; for the US bureau of
immigration, "equivalent work experience" generally means 3 years of work for
each year of school, which means you won't be eligible for a H1B for another
decade. I do not know how it is for other countries but I assume many have
similar requirements.

tl;dr: a degree will allow you to hedge yourself against the future. If you're
bored, there are always opportunities for you to diversify your interests,
seek more specialized knowledge in your field, or work on your own side
projects.

~~~
ThePawnBreak
In Romania, you don't choose your classes, the classes choose you. The way it
works is that you are admitted directly at a faculty, not at a university, and
just take the classes they decide you should. So if you're a CS major and want
to take a class on economy, tough luck.

------
valarauca1
Go to college, get your degree. Its shitty advice but you kinda have to do it.

As painful and stupid as it'll be you'll thank me. If you don't have a degree
it'll be 1000x harder to get an employer to notice you. You'll either have to
invest about 3-4 years of your life on a large software project that _may_
work (and get you noticed), or a big rare certification with some company like
IBM, Oracle, Red Hat, etc. that will take years of studying and several lower
level certifications (and several thousand dollars to take the tests).

Otherwise your job prospects are meh.

In college just do what they tell you. You will learn things, but not as fast
as from other sources. Some courses like OS theory, compiler theory, and data
structures will introduce you to newer concepts, some you may have not know.

Don't stop coding, don't stop learning. But a degree is important in today's
world.

------
robg
Why an either-or of dropping out or not? Here are some other choices:

\- Travel for a semester/year around the world

\- Side projects apart from school; use those to choose to new classes

\- Transfer to another school and/or country stretching into new opportunities

\- Pick up a hobby outside of anything you've ever done before

\- Volunteer at a hospital or in a research lab, both desperately need
technical people

\- Pursue a thesis of original research with a professor you admire

\- Challenge yourself with subjects you've never learned before: calligraphy,
art history, statistics, horseback riding, etc.

You have your whole life to work. But you also have many, many other choices.
Being an adult means choosing your own happiness, not what others expect. The
challenge is constantly finding a new muse to keep your interests fresh and
exciting. You can change who you are many times over in the next decade or
two.

College just helps to show you the range of possibilities for who you can
become. That openness to reinvent yourself becomes much harder as you get
older. Use the time you have to find new fountains of inspiration. Those you
keep coming back to will linger longest.

~~~
ntaso
I agree. Going to college is not only about getting a degree. It's about
learning what you want from life, learning social skills, going abroad for a
year, work on different projects, try things out.

Consider it as a time to sharpen and shape your personality, not so much to
gather lots of knowledge. You can do that, too, but it's not the only thing
you'll learn in college.

Working for a company will be taking enough of your time later on.

I had a great time at university. I studied abroad for a year in the States
(I'm German) and I started my business by accident. It was merely a side
project, a hobby. Now, almost 8 years later, it's my main source of income and
gives me all the freedom I want.

I didn't plan for it, it just happened, maybe because I was in an environment
that allowed time to "play".

------
vectorpush
You're me almost a decade ago. A couple semesters into college, I picked up a
part time role as a junior developer. Since, like you, I had already been
programming for years, I exceeded expectations and became highly valued by my
employer. Part time became full time, and I started to make a lot of money for
a college kid. At the same time, I was learning so much from my work that
school seemed to wane in utility, really only complicating my work schedule
where I was being paid well to enrich the exact skill-set I wanted from the
beginning. Finally, I decided to quit school.

I continued in that position for a total of four years. Another five years and
several positions later, I am doing quite well for myself, especially compared
to my peers, graduates and non-graduates alike.

With all that stated, my only regret is that I didn't finish that damn degree.
_Get your degree_. What I omitted from the above is the unending doubt and
disrespect you will face as a professional without a degree. It was only after
I was making tons of money that my peers stopped endearingly regarding me as a
lazy drop out. Despite the wealth of prospects available to me as an
experienced developer, I have faced numerous professional rejections simply
because I did not have a degree to show.

Returning to school never gets easier for anyone, but you're facing a double
whammy in that not only is the cost of tuition going up, but so is the cost of
the hours you'll spend at school instead of working.

~~~
coolsebz
Yes, that's exactly like it was for me too! Thanks for the advice!

------
DanielStraight
This is the kind of post that usually attracts a LOT of replies, many of them
quite good. But knowing that you're about to have a lot of reading to do, I'm
going to try to keep this very short.

You alone are responsible for your career advancement. Don't expect a company
to lay out a fulfilling career path for you. If you are unsatisfied, ask for
more. If you can't get it at your current job, get a new one.

Dropping college won't automatically make you a bum, but finishing college
will give you a way to prove to people that you aren't one.

Finally, some valuable reading:

[http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html)
(Just don't assume that you _have_ to be in a startup for it to work.)

[http://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/10/28/dont-call-yourself-a-
pro...](http://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/10/28/dont-call-yourself-a-programmer/)

And the Derek Siver's piece mentioned elsewhere:
[http://sivers.org/kimo](http://sivers.org/kimo)

~~~
coolsebz
Thank you for the resources, just got a first look over them and they sure
look interesting!

------
rayiner
At ~20 my boss at the startup where I worked summers suggested that if I
joined full-time he'd hire me on at a very good salary. I stayed in school for
no reason particularly better than "my parents would kill me."

In retrospect, I am tremendously glad I didn't drop out. I went on to grad
school in a different field (where I met my wife!) and love the work I'm doing
now. And while not having a college degree wouldn't have held me back in
software, necessarily, I could never have entered the field I am in now
without the degree.

To use a somewhat different example, my FIL worked his way up to a director-
level IT job without any college degree, but now in his 50's he wants to move
over to doing non-profit work and is absolutely feeling the lack of the
credential.

The bottom line is that life is long and you're young. You can't know what
you'll want to be doing 20 years from now, and there's a lot of value to
keeping your options open at this age.

------
ccrush
I've been reading this site for a long time, and I signed up today just to
tell you to go to college. I've been programming professionally for 10 years,
since I was 19 years old; your age. I dropped out of college to work, and I've
been making $100k+/yr for about 4 years now. I dropped out because I thought I
didn't need the degree, but now I regret not finishing. If you don't think
that CompSci is challenging, you can take another major and mix in your
CompSci knowledge. Finance + programming is huge. Chemistry has a sub-field
called computational chemistry which lands somewhere between theoretical
chemistry and applied chemistry. If you want to work with super-computers
you'll look there. There's physics and mechanical engineering where you can
apply computer programming knowledge to do finite element analysis. Or learn
computer vision or medical image processing (look into segmentation and
registration). And I'm just scratching the surface. At your age the world is
yours to conquer. Finish a degree in something about which you are passionate
instead of going to make websites or crappy line-of-business applications for
some company that wants to suck the soul out of you for what you think is
riches but what amounts to pennies for them. The working world is not all it's
cracked up to be. Trust me on this. Also, I'm Romanian too. Success, ma. Tine-
te de carte ca vin banii.

~~~
coolsebz
Hah, multumesc! :D Thanks for signing back in, I'll be sure to check
mechanical engineering for future studies, I've always wanted to look some
more in that domain!

------
luch
I would suggest to take it easy : you're seem to be an intelligent and driven
person, and that's good, but life is a marathon. You'll run out of time in the
future ('cause work/kids/hobby/drugs/etc.) so enjoy the moment and take your
time.

As for your professional life, in my opinion, don't rely on the company to
find you a "career path". If a firm proposes you one, it's a path which is
convenient to the company, no to you. Find your own path (that's also what
college is useful for).

------
Nanzikambe
_I 'm going to suggest you to do the opposite of what I did :)_

Do not drop out unless it's for an opportunity you have right now, that can't
be postponed or repeated and you're self-critical and objective enough to be
realistic about that assessment. Everything else you can do just as well
afterwards, without a sacrifice you'll regret.

Context: I formed a company during secondary school (age 16), completed my
GCSEs, left to focus on my company which was purchased leaving me as CTO for a
3 year stretch. Dropping out for me was a hard choice, those three years were
great, and despite ultimate failure of the company, I'd repeat the experience
again in a flash. Those three years give me a CV that demonstrates a
motivated, self-starter able to learn technology on the job.

That being said, I've dealt with hiring often enough that I've met way too
many of my age group that dropped out without the self-motivation, skills or
intelligence to make it work for them. They dropped out because it was the
easy and lazy choice. They dropped out because they thought mastery of a
single trending technology or process would drive the rest of their careers.
They dropped out because delusions of competency reinforced the belief that in
comparison to another person of equivalent skill, ability who completed their
education, for some bizarre and irrational reason the Universe would weigh in
on their side.

------
dagw
I dropped out of college when I was 19 and worked a couple of sys admin and
programming jobs for the next 3.5 years. After that I a) felt like I a had a
much better idea about what I wanted to do and b) felt ready and interested in
going to university, neither of which where true the first time around.

10 years later I haven't regretted either decision at all. I got much more out
of university the second time around since I actually wanted to be there and
the work experience I got working those years not only really helped me land
my first couple of jobs, but provided invaluable experience that I still rely
on. And while I never had much trouble finding jobs without a degree, the jobs
I found with a degree are much more interesting and fun.

So my advice is that while university on the whole probably is a good idea,
there is nothing that says you have to go to university right out of high
school.

Another piece of advice is to remember that there are a lot of courses offered
at universities and just because you love programming doesn't mean you have to
study CS. I, for example, got my degree in mathematics with a side order of
economics, and have found that the combination has opened up a whole avenue of
opportunities I probably never would have had if I'd just stuck to
programming, while still being able to use my programming skills. So take a
step back and reflect over if perhaps there is some other area in addition to
programming that you find fascinating and perhaps consider getting a degree in
that, when you feel ready..

------
krstck
The only reason not to finish college is if the opportunity cost is too high
because you have something else going on. You can get by in this field without
a degree, of course, but you will always be frustrated trying to get past HR.
I have a college degree, but it's not in CS, and that's hard enough.

It doesn't sound like college is keeping you back from more valuable projects,
you're just struggling to follow through. Finish the degree.

------
ojr
I left college, the opportunity cost is too high for me, I can't live the
luxury of buying a software book for around $200 just to write pseudo code,
hopefully the trillion dollar school loan debt bubble will pop and there will
be more changes to the system, I have open source projects and closed source
projects. I live in Boston, Massachusetts so I know when I apply for a job I
am likely going against people with degrees, maybe even some from colleges
like MIT and Harvard. That hasn't stopped me from applying and has not stopped
employers from setting up interviews.

Of course especially in a college-filled place like Boston there are employers
that will not even look at you without a degree. So having a degree will widen
your opportunities and strengthen your job security but at the cost of going
to college and time you could be doing other things.

My advice is to work on a project that generates some sort of revenue. I think
the ability to show that you can make software that creates profit is very
valuable. I would hire Jane that drop out of college and earned $10,000 from a
SaaS application than Joe who earned a Computer Science degree by googling
solutions to his Java homework problems.

Fortune favors the prepared mind. So pick up good programming books from the
bay and try to read some chapters. It is normal for companies in an interview
to test how well you know different data structures and algorithms so if you
can't learn that type of material on your own, you might need to go to college
and let it be forced upon you.

Whatever software technologies you are passionate about learn it well and I
truly believe in the long run the trendy new popular technology you bet your
career on will pay off, you might be 22 before it happens though.

I believe in you!

------
zaccus
I'm not going to directly contradict everyone here encouraging you to go to
college, because that might be the best move for you or it might not.

However, I will say that if the only thing you want out of college is a
degree, you will be bitterly disappointed when you graduate in 4 years with a
ton of debt and no more employable than you are now. This is the case with
millions of people, and there is no reason it shouldn't be the case with you.

If you decide to go to college, you need a crystal-clear idea of what you want
to get out of the experience. 4 years is not a trivial amount of time to
waste.

Keep in mind that college is always an option. There's no reason why everyone
should go to college when they are 18 or 19. Time is on your side. If I were
you I would keep gaining professional experience until a good reason to go to
college presents itself.

Just to reiterate: nobody cares about a degree anymore. A monkey could get a
degree. It is not an impressive accomplishment, and it is not in itself worth
4 years of your life. Take that into consideration, and if college still
appeals to you then it might be worthwhile.

------
rmcastil
It sounds like you're already ahead of the curve with your programming
experience. Don't fall into the trap thinking that is all you'll need for a
stable career for the rest of your life.

One issue that you alluded to, is that you've been somewhat taken advantage of
(underpaid) for whatever reason (possibly youth and inexperience). This will
continue to happen until you focus on the skills necessary to demand what you
are worth (ie - strong verbal/written communication skills, research,
negotiating, teamwork, etc). These are the kind of skills you learn indirectly
in college.

Do you need college for all these things? Of course not. You can start a blog
today and start working on your writing ability. Specifically focusing on
teaching and conveying your ideas in a digestible way.

The cold hard truth of the working world is NO ONE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR
ADVANCEMENT BUT YOURSELF. Its true that there are some companies that will
help you along but they are only training you so that they can get the most
out of their investment in you.

------
navait
I don't know where you live, but I can tell you what you can do in America
degree wise. There are options for accelerating university. Discussing your
situation with your advisor may help you get some credits via a special test
or the the CLEP and AP exams. There are actually a lot of resources for
getting credits, you just need to ask your advisor for help. Maybe they will
even accept coursera work. The flip side is that if you attend a tuition mill,
they'll not let you speed up your education. If that's the problem I suggest
you try to attend a better university.

You can then fast-track to a master's degree(your university may call it
something different). This allows you to use grad level courses as courses for
your BS. You will find the graduate level courses more challenging and they
will test your ability to learn. If you are as smart as you say you are,
you'll be able to graduate the program a year early, learn a lot and have an
MS to boot.

~~~
coolsebz
Wow, this is something that I haven't been thinking about! I will definitely
ask about the possibility of starting with my masters, because that sounds
like a real challenge! Thank you!

~~~
navait
I actually have a professor from Romania who might be able to help you, if you
give me a private email address to contact you, I can give you his name. (I
don't want to post it publicly on HN)

~~~
coolsebz
Absolutely, that would be more than helpful! coolsebz@gmail.com

------
h4pless
So you already know what you're doing when it comes to code, you know how to
learn the things you don't know on your own, and the classes offered by your
school don't interest you: don't study computer science.

The one thing I would suggest is that before you drop out of school, test the
waters in other fields. Take psychology and sociology to learn how the minds
of individuals and the community at large work. Take micro and macro economics
and learn how the economy functions and the pro's and con's of different
public policy. Enjoy the outdoors? Learn about physics, meteorology, bio-
mechanics, geology, biology, organic chemistry....

I mean I could list off different things you could pursue all day but the the
point is, college offers you a unique opportunity to try out and get basic
understandings of a lot of different things.

Sometimes I think, "Shit, if I would have just skipped school and gone
straight into working on software development, I'd probably be making $150k+ a
year right now, probably would have a few of my business ideas up and running,
wouldn't have had to deal with the debt..." But the thing is, if I could go
back and choose not to attend college or to drop out, there is no way in hell
I would.

College is one of those things that has a proportional rate of return for the
effort you put in. So if programming in college isn't your cup of tea because
you are already a superstar, I would suggest you test the waters in other
fields and see if you can learn something you find interesting while you're
there. If, on the other hand, you are sure that you only care about working as
a programmer I would suggest you stop wasting your time and money on something
that has no value to you. But I'm sure if you look hard enough, you will find
subjects and teachers that inspire you and will come out of the experience a
much more well rounded thinker.

~~~
coolsebz
Thank you so much! I was actually thinking of going to a couple of classes in
media, arts, finance, etc because that would be something new, it would keep
me hooked and it would also keep people around me happy because, in their
vision I'm going to college. Thanks a lot for this, great point of view!

------
davidw
You could try branching out a bit in college - do stuff that's not your
primary interest. If I could go back, I might consider studying economics in
college. Programming is something that it sounds like you like anyway, so
you'll be ok even if you don't study it.

You'll be able to find a programming job just fine even without college. It'll
be harder, and you may have trouble in snooty environments that place a lot of
emphasis on that, but .... they're assholes anyway and you're better off
without them. There are certain jobs and things you probably won't be suited
for without the necessary background and knowledge, some of which are actually
cool things, so that might be something to consider. OTOH, if you're
determined enough, you can probably go back and learn those things if you
really want to.

I dropped out of college, and generally don't regret it, but there have been
times when it has been a hindrance.

------
nish1500
I dropped out when I was 20. It was one of the best decisions of my life; I
can't imagine an alternate life. When people ask me if it's okay to drop out,
I tell them that it's a bad decision, in most cases.

Unlike others, I didn't drop out of an engineering course. I dropped out of an
accounts course, to work on my web startup.

On the face of it, it sounds like a major risk. I think it was a very
calculated, and risk-free decision. I had started working while I was still
studying, and was making decent money when I dropped out; multiple times more
money than what I would make by completing college and getting a job like my
peers. Also, I hated accounts, and loved tech. The thought of spending your
only life doing something you hate was unbearable.

So, you see, the decision was unanimous.

When people think about dropping out, it is usually because they think college
is boring, or they like working over studying. This is what makes dropping out
very risky.

------
kasey_junk
College is not the end all be-all experience. There are lots of other
opportunities and learning on the job is one of them. You will almost
certainly be at an income disparity without a degree for at least the
beginning of your career.

That said, if you can't find an engaging and challenging experience learning
about software in your college, either A) you are at a bad college and need to
change or B) you haven't actively tried to take full advantage of the
resources available to you.

When I was an undergraduate I took graduate courses, TA'd intro courses,
worked on research projects, got published, etc, and I wasn't some uber
student. I just was really interested in things and spent a lot of time asking
professors and graduate students stuff. I had the opposite problem, there was
so much I wanted to learn about and so little time to do it.

~~~
coolsebz
Thank you for your response! I have felt a bit that the college I'm at is not
really good for me, and that's the reason why I went online and got as much
resources as possible (MIT OpenCourseware, Coursera, Udacity, Stanford
lectures available). Those guys really do teach stuff! But it is out of my
reach to go to one of those colleges, sadly :/

~~~
jakobe
Why is it out of your reach? Because they are too expensive?

If you want to study at a better college, look for professors in your field,
find someone that does something interesting, and ask them if they will take
you as a student. If you are good, some institutions will actually pay you for
studying there.

This is easiest if you already have at least a bachelors degree, and want to
go to grad school. At least in Europe, most grad schools pay PhD students (in
science/engineering), and if you are smart, it's not that hard to get
accepted.

~~~
coolsebz
I didn't know I could talk to professors for this, but it sounds interesting!
Thanks, I'm going to try this!

~~~
jakobe
This is probably more important towards the end of your undergraduate studies.

At least in Austria it's quite common to receive a stipend for your masters'
thesis (in science/engineering). It's not always enough to fully cover living
expenses, but it sure helps a lot (eg. I got 400€ a month while working on my
master's thesis).

After that, PhD positions are almost all paid normal wages.

------
reboog711
You didn't talk about financing. Are you paying for college yourself? With
loans? Or is someone else paying the bill?

If you are paying for college with loans; I would drop out. There is no need
to go into massive debt without a specific purpose. I think college can be
beneficial with a specific course of action. But--in the US--a lot of people
go there to 'find themselves' whatever that means. If you want to drink
alcohol and experiment with drugs and waste a bunch of years I'm sure you'll
be able to find a way to do that without racking up huge college bills.

However, if you aren't taking on any of the expense of going to college, I
would go. Learn as much as you can. Take different classes. Look for
internships or jobs to get experience and education at the same time (and
hopefully some money).

------
Loque
Experience isn't just with your profession. May sound odd but I have learnt a
lot that has changed the way I am with code and business from completely un-
related happenings.

I might suggest, that you will be fine, whatever path you pick, it's mostly
about making the most out of the path you chose, college or not.

I have worked in London, Berlin, Oxford, which is enough for me now, I get
offered to work all over europe, at what I consider to be crazy prices, it's
pretty nice, but I have opted to do my own thing with people that need help
and support in my hometown as I found myself back here for some random
reason... anyway. Keep asking people, keep thinking about it, pick something,
and enjoy it. Life can go on for a while if you are careful, and your
priorities can change over the years, keep it flexible!

------
icu
Hi Coolsbz,

Firstly a degree is good for getting a job, showing that you can stick to
something for a number of years, and gaining a good network of friends who may
provide future opportunities for you.

Notice I didn't say anything about learning.

What you learn at university will be obsolete.

About career development, I think it's important to think that your actual job
isn't your job, but your 'job' is to get an ever better job. Don't expect your
employers will care about your career, they are going to try and squeeze you
for all that you're worth. Always be looking for new job opportunities even if
you have a job.

If you think you will get a good job after the end of your degree then it may
be worth grinding through it. If not you might be better to secure a job
before dropping out and then keep looking for ever better and better jobs.

Good luck!

------
fredgrott
Your English is fine, better than most Native speakers :)

One, make sure that you do to neglect Computer Science, you skills now put
food on table but those long term computer Science skills make sure you have a
career to pay for something long term like retirement and a house. But what is
nice now at this time is there are places where you can get free online
courses in computer science by the top schools.

Do not go through hr processes, connect to the people with money as they will
have no problem giving the shot once they see stuff you have built.

As far as career planning, many people approach this in different ways. the
creator of Perl, the computer language came in to computer Science through
human languages. It just depends on what interests you have and what area of
computer science those interest lead you to.

------
pfortuny
At 19 you have a lot to learn still. The advantages of finishing college are,
among others:

1) The certainty that you followed, at least, a 'formal' training (in a very
loose sense, I know), which gives you a sense of accomplishment.

2) Education, education, education. The mere fact of studying something you do
not fancy is such a boon to your education that you have to go through it to
understand it.

3) Future career searching (this is somewhat silly but it is a fact).

On the other hand, _IF_ (big if) you _DO_ (big do) have a _plan_ (big plan)
for your life already, do pursue it. But _I_ (big I) would make sure that plan
includes family, a way to earn money and contingency plans.

So, each way has its pros/cons but just 'dropping' because you do not like it
is not quite rational, to me.

But these are just ideas on the spot.

------
adpd
I read an interesting story a while ago that I wish I had read (or been
advised in a similar fashion) when I was a little younger:
[http://sivers.org/kimo](http://sivers.org/kimo)

tl;dr _“the standard pace is for chumps” - that the system is designed so
anyone can keep up. If you 're more driven than “just anyone” - you can do so
much more than anyone expects. And this applies to ALL of life - not just
school._

It is hard for me to give you specific advice without knowing a lot more
details, but staying in education is usually not a bad idea if there are
things you can get out of it. If you are well ahead of your peers, what stops
you working in your spare time on side projects that do interest you, or
brings in money?

------
cjf4
I'd say you can skip college if you are really specific about something that
doesn't require a degree, or you are extremely good at forging your own path
(starting a company, freelance work, or if you are really well networked).
Otherwise, go to school.

I'd say go to school anyway, because I have more traditional beliefs about how
college helps with personal development (especially if its liberal arts). The
perspective you gain by studying subjects that are completely unrelated to
your field will be invaluable in giving you an understanding of the world,
especially once you realize that those fields aren't completely unrelated.

Plus college is just too much damn fun. Don't skip it.

------
makmanalp
The problems most people have with candidates not having a degree are: a) It's
harder to prove they know their stuff b) there's an impression that they are
bums and shied away from hard work, or somehow lacked the intelligence and
drive

You can solve both of these issues by taking your career seriously. Getting
your foot in the door is going to be harder at first because you're young and
you have no degree, but it seems you've worked at multiple places already. Get
references from them, have them talk to your future employer on the phone.
This is the strongest vote of confidence one can get and definitely matters
more than a degree.

Make sure each new job you take progresses in some way: More responsibility,
higher rank, more / different tech, more complicated project. For each job,
keep track of your accomplishments on the job as easy to digest one-liners.
Put these in your resume. Your resume items and progression should tell a
clear story that you're good (which is easy since you started so young) and
you're getting even better.

In addition, show that you're not purely a cog. If you can reflect the fact
that you also understand the business aspects and reason _why_ you do things,
that you can course-correct misguided top down policies from management, that
you can serve not only as techie but also, say, marketer, that you can
communicate with non-technicals, then that makes you doubly valuable.

Also, show that you have expertise. Go to conferences, be a regular in local
user groups, speak in front of people, teach people.

Four years of progressing employment, combined with these bonuses should
really negate the fact that you don't have a degree in terms of getting hired
(I think degree is valuable for other reasons, but let's put that aside for
now). The one exception is large employers like Google, MS, the Government,
etc. which sometimes have hard HR requirements and just cannot comprehend
bending them even if they like you. But anyway, I recommend that people with
degrees try to do all this too. It really builds the idea of investing in you
as a valuable asset and a person rather than buying a replaceable cog. Value-
add matters.

~~~
coolsebz
Thank you! I like the idea of being important in the community and I think
that definitely is helpful! Thanks!

------
Robby2012
You should finish college. Believe it or not you learn a lot on college, not
only from teachers but from your classmates. It's a great experience and you
have your whole life to work. Give college a chance, you won't regret it.

------
sharemywin
I personally loved going to college. At ohio state there were 11,000 courses.
one of the courses I liked the best was comparitive studies and lingustics. I
would have never dived that deep into either of those subjects without
college. In compartive studies I had to read a 200+ page book a week and give
an indepth analysis of the book not just a summary. Also college shows people
you can stick something out for longer than a minute. The point of college is
the world outside of programming. The people you meet is the point of college,
both intellectually and on a personal level.

------
Barreljack
coolsebz, I felt the same way when I was in college. A year and a half in I
dropped out. Like you I also programmed for fun at a young age and loved the
pleasure it gave me. The ability to create something on my own from virtually
nothing was incredibly exciting. Once I found out I could also make money I
was hooked.

When I dropped out I started a company that failed horribly in the first year.
However, in that year I networked with other small business owners and
entrepreneurs in the area. From these connections I was able to work my way
from one startup to the next. Six years later I now working with a more
traditional "corporate" company and live comfortably.

Like any journey in life it came with a great set of experiences that I
learned from that formed who I am today. However, I wouldn't say that dropping
out of college was the best idea I ever had. Had I attempted to apply for the
corporate job that I am in now when I dropped out I would have never got it.
It took a backlog of personal opensource projects, a positive track record at
previous companies, and a good deal of networking. Having a degree wouldn't
have been a guarantee at getting in either -- but it would have gotten me past
HR faster.

Life is a crazy journey, and I understand wanting to run as fast as possible.
If I was you, I would use college as an opportunity to work on your own ideas
and projects, learn, network, explore yourself, and have fun. Even if it
doesn't seem like it, you have a lot of time ahead of you. This time in your
live is an amazing opportunity to live and explore without boundaries.

~~~
coolsebz
Thank you for your reply! I also was considering starting something on my own
and dedicating all of my time to it, it's just that I'm worried since there
isn't much of a "safety net" whilst you're doing such things. Thank you!

------
alfl23
It's a simple choice as long as you stay rational. People bullshit and fear as
they don't see the picture themselves.

Entrepreneurship is not for everybody, if you go down that path, don't expect
great council at every corner. In your lifetime, you will meet very few people
who truly think like you.

Everybody pushes you to college because in their mind it's the only way. And
that's ok, most people are weak. Now the rational bit.

If you want a 9 to 5 job, a wife and 2 kids and a ride into the sunset, go to
college, internship, job, better job, retirement. There is nothing wrong with
that, but some people want different things.

If you know programming good enough to make a living, take the job. College is
great if you don't really know anything and you have to show a diploma or if
your industry needs one(e.g. doctor), but otherwise almost worthless. Instead
of a giant student loan, you can have capital for your first business.

If you want to be an entrepreneur and still go to college, do it but not for
programming. Go to your exams, don't waste your time with classes. Instead
work. Take a job, try and fail and you will learn more than anywhere else.

Your goal is to create a network and reputation, to learn about people. Keep
the PR work with your family and friends, they don't have to know about this.
Ace your exams, don't expect 100%, and keep everybody happy. As an
entrepreneur this will be 50% of your job, keeping everybody else happy.

If you work, never, absolutely never let anybody underpay you because of your
age. Never be taken for granted. Respect is earned by getting things done,
just keep proving you have professional maturity well beyond the years in your
birth certificate and you will earn respect. But never tolerate jokes or even
hints about it. Never display ego, but never go the other way.

There is a place for people like you, it's entrepreneurship. If this is what
you want, then man up, think rationally, manage everybody's expectations, but
go with your gut. And remember, no one will every do anything for you and for
your career. You have to get it done yourself.

I've been down the same road and I don't regret one bit. 15 hours of work a
day are normal, but there's nothing else I'd rather be doing.

~~~
coolsebz
Thank you for your reply! I too see myself crunching more than 10 hours a day
to work on my own thing, it's just that all the people around me are exactly
as you've described them, trying to see the only way to the nice sunset.
Thanks again!

~~~
alfl23
Very glad to help! Just remember, whatever your move is, don't argue with the
world around you. They won't get it. Prove leadership qualities, smile, keep
your composure and find the middle ground.

Best of luck!

------
m52go
Since you mentioned the slow-lane, I'd recommend checking out the Fastlane
Forum.

[http://www.thefastlaneforum.com/](http://www.thefastlaneforum.com/)

The place for people like you is on your own...that forum will give you the
support you need to learn, develop, and execute on what you really want to do.

There is so much stuff on there that I wish I would have known when I was 19.

------
iamben
For what it's worth, here's how I now see it / it went for me.

I did the traditional education - college, University. But I was a young 18
and the three years I spent at University were really good to 'grow up'. I'm
sure I could have (eventually?!) managed in the real world, but I spent three
years finding out a bit more about myself, _growing up_ , playing in bands,
drinking, meeting girls, learning to take care of myself - etc.

That said, the CS degree I have hasn't really helped my career since that
point _except_ to open early / initial doors. I'm sure some foundations have
probably helped with my work since then, but for the most part, everything
since has been self taught / work experience.

So at that point, for me, the formal education was worthwhile to 'get me in'.

Jump forward nearly 15 years - (and like me) _lots_ of my friends work for
companies that do stuff on or with the Internet. Most of these guys never went
to University and just started working at 18. (I dread to think how irrelevant
some of the stuff you'd learn in year one of a three year 'Internet' degree
would be by the time you looked for a job, BUT I guess the qualification would
probably still open some doors for you.)

For them it was a case of _moving to where the action is_ , showing you're
prepared to learn and/or hustle, or have some personal work/freelance work to
show to someone. And being confident. Lots of smiles and lots of confidence
(which is totally fake-able). Many smaller companies will happily take a
chance on you if you're hungry and they can pay you a basic wage.

From that point, it's pretty easy - just work hard. Provided you've held down
a job (which isn't too tough if you're not an unpleasant person), by your late
20s, nobody gives a monkeys as to your education - all they see is you're
capable of remaining employed, can do a job and have experience. So much so, I
know many people (in their late 20s and early 30s) who no longer even bother
putting 'education' on their CV.

Long and short, don't take your education too seriously. Keep doing your stuff
on the side - and when and if you're ready for 'real life' work, be nice, have
some confidence and hustle like crazy. And to make it easier still, up sticks
and move to where the action is.

Good luck, you'll be fine.

------
gkya
College is fun. Go there and make friends, if nothing else. Schools are one-
size-fits-all everywhere, and you have to deal with it. I'm 21 and struggling
to qualify for uni because of my state which is similar to yours. People that
are eager to learn real-life stuff usually struggle throughout their
education, as far as I can tell.

~~~
mcdougle
I didn't want to say this in my post, because honestly OP might have a great
social life and just not be enjoying the school part (didn't want to assume).
But yes; undergrad was boring as hell for me and I felt I didn't learn much,
but it was very worthwhile because it was the most fun time of my life this
far, even if for no other reason

~~~
gkya
In this age, schools are totally irrelevant as the place to receive
information; there are so many places to get required information from
internet, especially in the field of CS, as long as one's able to interpret
data's truth. Schools, I think, are only good for getting people to socialise
and give them a basic amount of knowledge that is fundamental to be able to
communicate and think in a modern way.

~~~
mcdougle
Oh, definitely. I mean, the basic stuff we learned as kids is important, but I
feel like I could learn anything I want to on my own, especially with Google
available these days. The school system just feels a bit archaic to me. I hear
all of these arguments that we need to try to be more like Japan, but I think
we need to go in the opposite direction -- less focus on degrees, less focus
on busywork, more focus on learning skills that are applicable to real life
and lots more hands-on experience rather than lectures and tests.

I'd actually love to see more push for little entrepreneurs to be creative and
businessy (whereas it seems like they try to squash that out!) as I,
personally, feel that having more entrepreneurs and more businesses is a big
part of the ticket to fixing the economy. I remember when I was little, I
thought I'd try to monetize one of my skills by selling my drawings on the
playground -- harmless, right? Well, I got in trouble and was told not to do
it anymore because selling things at school wasn't allowed.

------
TheCondor
I find it hard to believe that you can't challenge yourself at college. Go
learn something outside your comfort zone. Different cultures and places are
different but college isn't so much about learning a job or vocation, it's
about showing that you can learn and showing that you can complete things.

------
juliogreff
22 yo here, recently dropped out of college. I cannot tell you what to do, but
I can tell what difference dropping out made to me.

To give some context: I lived in a small city in Southern Brazil, and I've
been programming professionally since I was 16. Of course the money and the
recognition were close to zero, because who trusts a kid anyway. Self-taught
from the beginning, so by the time I got to university at 18 I was always the
best programmer in the class, which made almost every class extremely boring.
More or less 2 years later I started getting offers from big companies in
Brazilian tech hubs like São Paulo and Rio de Janeiro. Moving to another
university meant losing almost 1 year worth of studies, so I decided to stay.
But at this point I was convinced that I was worth something, and started
working remotely for a company in Rio. I was in charge of a whole product, and
the pay was ok for Brazilian standards. Since I lived in a small town, I was
getting paid more than all my friends, even those that already graduated. I
thought that I was on to something.

Last year I started working for an American company, and started getting paid
a lot more. During the interview process, I wasn't even asked about my
education, they just asked me to demonstrate what I knew (I understand that
this is not universal to every company). This, combined with the fact that I
finished all the college subjects that interested me, made me take the
decision to drop out and move out of the country. Remote work is fun and all,
but I missed the social contact with other people. Berlin was my first choice,
and I started applying. I made it clear in every application that I was
dropping out, and it didn't seem to make any difference, because I was getting
interviews and ended up getting hired. So professionally dropping out did not
hurt me at all, because I had the skills.

But not having a degree did make me life difficult. It was absurdly hard to
get a work permit. Not impossible, but it required HR to get creative. So you
have to be prepared to hit roadblocks every once in a while. I thought of
giving up and going back home a few times, because it's really frustrating. In
the end, everything worked and I'm more than one year ahead career-wise than
if I had stayed and finished my degree.

So, should you drop out? Maybe, but be prepared for a slightly harder life
overall. If you do decide to drop out, please do it as soon as possible, and
don't wait a few years like I did. I feel I could be even better today if I
had dropped out a year earlier. But YMMV.

------
rainmaking
I would suggest to make it your priority to get a clear vision for your life.

Then you can accurately assess if college will support that vision or not.

I have did the same and decided that it does not. I dropped out. I have found
a lacking college degree is not that hard to compensate with a clear
demonstration of skills.

------
c0g
Given you're Romanian, that means you can easily study in other European
countries right? I know of great places in Germany, France, the UK and Finland
to study - and there are definitely more.

Might be worth considering - get somewhere with a big tech scene, higher wages
and more difficult courses.

~~~
coolsebz
I have looked into that, and yes, there are some pretty awesome colleges out
there, but I feel they are out of my reach right now (I have no connections,
it's a bit too expensive to be financing it all by myself, etc). If you would
like to give me some more details, please ping me on my email:
coolsebz@gmail.com

------
icco
I found college boring enough, I actually failed out once, and then kept
pushing eventually just to get the piece of paper.

The key thing that made college worth it for me though was two things a)
finding people of similar interests to work on cool things and b) figuring out
how to work with others.

------
mod_alec
Go to college, build your network and be around like minded people, but take a
leaf out of this first.

"50 Things" \-
[http://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/50_things](http://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/50_things)

------
AGWeir
For me, only about 25% of going to University was about education. It was
about growing up and becoming independent from my parents, having fun and
getting really drunk.

You will learn more from it than just the courses & modules you take so keep
that in consideration.

------
pmelendez
I am agreed with what others have already said, there is a correlation between
quality of the job and post high school education.

My advice would be to take advantage of all the things that you can do in
college and that are harder to do outside. Remember that being in a college is
more than lectures, you also have a lot of resources at hand that are very
expensive outside.

The final note is that a comp sci degree (or analogous) is more than just
programming, for instance if you would like to explore things like machine
learning, physics simulation, and whatnot you would appreciate to have a solid
math background (college level). It is up to you, you might be just fine
without college like Gates and Zuckerberg, but there are also plenty of
counterparts who were not that lucky without a college degree.

------
lukasm
Don't take advices from strangers on the internet.

> The big problem is that everyone is trying to make me feel bad about this

You are threatening their identity. A degree is consider the holy grail.

------
geekishmatt
Go to college, get your degree and invest your spare time for networking,
personal projects or some open-source projects ;)

Try to learn few more languages an/or paradigms...

------
yodsanklai
Go to college! If you find it too easy, it means you'll have time to work on
your side projects. Or try to apply to a more prestigious institution.

------
PolemicThoughts
Hey. I was in a similar boat. I am US-based, so I'm not sure how much
relevance my story has to you. I turn 19 in two months.

I've been programming for leisure for years. I got my first job programming in
10th grade, and loved it. When I graduated a year later, I went to a semester
of college.

It's not that college was easy-- it was difficult for me. I just didn't care
as much for the subjects I was being tought, and didn't try to succeed. It was
time for me to pay for the second semester. I managed to pay for the first one
with liquid, but that wasn't going to happen again.

My parents strongly discouraged not going to college, although they are biased
in that matter; my mother has dual masters degrees, and my father has a Ph.D,
and their degrees are very important to their career pathes.

The job I was at wasn't enough to sustain myself. I was underpaid, the commute
was long, and upper management didn't agree on the value that I was adding to
the company, despite direct management having a conflicting opinion. Anecdote:
one of my friends that worked at a nearby grocery store who's job consisted of
literally putting fruit on shelves was making more than me, which made me a
bit bitter.

I couldn't find anything locally, since I lived in a remote, rural US town, so
I started applying to various surrounding cities. The first job I applied to,
I got an offer, and I took it. It was fun, a great learning experience, and I
even got a promotion to mid-level developer. I've since left for a job at a
similar position at a startup, mostly for fun. It has turned out to be much
harder than I expected, but that's OK- challenges are fun.

I have felt incredibly valued by my coworkers and management. I feel
successful, and I have no reason to regret my career choices.

My advice to you is to keep pushing forward. I feel like there isn't a HN
consensus on this topic, but it is my opinion that there are few programming
jobs that require a college education and do not provide an "or similar
experience" clause, particularly within US-based startups. The majority of my
employers haven't cared for a degree; they just want their employees to be
good.[1]

Also, check out online freelancing sites such as oDesk and Elance. It's easy
to get started, and I only saw one or two listings that required a degree in
the three months I spent on oDesk. One of my contracts turned into the full
time position that I have now.

[1] I may be susceptible to survivorship bias, as any employer that would
agree to hire someone without a degree obviously wouldn't care for the degree.

------
klepra
If you can, go study at college/uni ... It might not be optimal optimal for
you, but neither are other options.

------
jgg
Major in something unrelated to CS that will challenge you.

------
ritonlajoie
you are young, go to college and enjoy it as long as it lasts

------
firesofmay
I haven't read through other peoples post here but I have gone through this.

I am from India, and my reasosn were a bit different. I had failed in my final
class in school (12th). Right before you are supposed to apply for college. I
had science. Except for Computer Science I sucked at everything.

And I was like really fed up and I gave up on studies entirely.

Told my parents about it. They tried making me understand but I said this
stuff doesn't go in my head.

Finally they gave in. And I joined my dads business.

For 4 years I tried doing that stuff, And I realized that I am not cut out for
it.

One day, me, my dad and my uncle met. And My dad was trying to ask him to take
me up as a partner in his firm while he'll invest.

My uncle said straightforward, "look, If its money, I can get it from banks.
It's about the knowledge and what he can add to the company. Why don't you ask
him to get back to studies?"

And that started this whole pursuit of trying again.

Told my parents I'll try to clear my last year in school again, did it somehow
via distance learning. Cleared it.

Finally Got an admission in decent Engineering college and got into I.T.

First 3 years I had no clue what I was doing, why am I here, while I would do
great in practicals, I would do horrible in theory.

In 3rd year, I failed one theory subject 4 times which is like a year down
(basically you have to clear that one subject within a year and wait till you
clear it)

I was like WTF.

And I told myself I'll just learn things on my own.

First thing I did was setup Ubuntu on my machine.

Unfortunately WIFI just would not work.

Wasted a week, luckily Ubuntu 10.04 (I think) came out and It just worked! :D

And I began my jounrey of self-learning.

One good thing that happened to me was due to a year down, all my friends
passed out and joined several big companies. And I saw that these big
companies care too much about marks.

And I decided not to apply to anyone of them coz they'll reject me even before
trying to know me.

And I told myself, one year down the line, i'll get a job without applying via
college, "off-campus", on my own.

And I would attend all kinds of meetups, events, updated my github profile,
updated my FB (kept it clean), wrote blog posts etc....

After a year on FB I got a message from one startup about writing some python
scrapers for them as a freelancer. I did it for 2 months. Also I was doing my
final year project under someone. They both offered me a job. And one person I
met in a python conference. I got a job offer from him as well.

I landed up a job at Helpshift. These guys don't care about your degree, your
"years of experience" etc. Just pure knowledge.

It's been almost 2 years I've been working here, and life is good.

So was degree really required? No. Is it a good to have? Yes. Is it a must
Have? No, depends.

Its all upto you, what path you wanna create. By doing X you open certain
gates up, and close some others.

If you study on your own, and chart your own path, you make it easier for
yourself to study exactly what you want, but you close other gates like Trying
for a company like Google perhaps which may not reject you but will definetly
make it it harder for you.

If you do get a degree, you keep your options open but you'll have to go
through this whole cycle.

So again, both have its tradeoffs.

Do I regret dropping off? No. I learned to value knowledge (Not degree btw).

I would just say, choose the path that you'll regret the least. Everyone who
tells you that you are doing wrong, are saying from what they have seen or
their experiences. They could be wrong too you know, just like you might be
too.

Whats more important is what would you regret less if it does not work out in
the future? Choose that. And just give your everything to it, Degree or No
Degree.

All the best to you. :)

------
mcdougle
The answer to your question is really, "what do you want to do in life?"

(And the answer is still, probably, stay in college)

What's your end-goal -- where do you see yourself in 5, 10, 20 years? Do you
want to be working at some high-ranking position at a company -- in other
words, a well-paid employee? Then yes, you should most definitely go to
college and get your degree. You'll find that, without your degree, being an
employee is incredibly difficult -- people won't want to hire you and they'll
pick others ahead of you. And if another 2008 recession hits, then you may
very well be screwed.

Additionally, as others have said, if you want to be an employee, you're going
to have to take your career into your own hands. Very few companies care to
help their employees get ahead -- they view them as an asset, and they're
trading money for the value of your work. You'll want to go out of your way to
appeal to your boss, check for openings at higher positions, and apply quickly
to move up. Bigger corporations tend to be worse about this; some startups and
smaller businesses may be far more helpful to their employees, since the
higher-ups know you on a personal level.

Pretty much the only lucrative option, if you don't want to go to college, is
to become an entrepreneur and work for yourself (unless you're extremely good
at selling yourself to potential employers, or you have amazing connections).
If you want to go down this road, however, I'd honestly suggest that you stay
in school for now and work on your business on the side, only quitting when
the business can support you and you don't need the degree anymore. That's
what many of the entrepreneurs of our day did -- Gates, etc.

I kind of felt the same about school -- it was way too easy. I didn't feel
that I learned much, and I was honestly just there for the degree (and the
beer, parties, and girls, haha), knowing that to get a decent job I'd need
one. I also feel the same about jobs -- I'm currently working at a big
company, and I just feel like a cog in the machine. It honestly feels like I'm
back in high school -- easy work, learning nothing, showing up just for the
paycheck. That's why I'm working to start my own business -- if I could do it
all over again, I'd have tried to launch businesses while I was still in
undergrad and had way too much time on my hands.... but hey, hindsight is
20/20.

Disclaimer: This is all based on my own opinion, experience, and observations,
but I hope it's helpful. I wish when I was younger, someone had basically said
this to me. When I graduated high school, I was told that I absolutely have to
go to college, get a job with great benefits, and climb the corporate ladder
-- it's only once i got there that I realized, hey, this sucks! There are
other options, but you must realize that the degree is still actually very
useful as a fallback (or, pretty much necessary if you want to work for
someone else).

~~~
coolsebz
Thank you! This is exactly my view on this! That's how I was raised too: "told
that I absolutely have to go to college, get a job with great benefits, and
climb the corporate ladder". I will think some more on this, thank you for
your response!

------
dedosk
Go to college.

