
Settlement in George Hotz Case - remi
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/04/11/settlement-in-george-hotz-case/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=george_hotz_041111
======
maximilianburke
From geohot's website:

> What if SCEA tries to settle?

> Lets just say, I want the settlement terms to include OtherOS on all PS3s
> and an apology on the PlayStation blog for ever removing it. It'd be good PR
> for Sony too, lord knows they could use it. I'm also willing to accept a
> trade, a legit path to homebrew for knowledge of how to stop new firmwares
> from being decrypted.

I wonder if any of those terms were met?

~~~
mrcharles
Not a chance. Most likely Hotz realized what he was in for if he stuck it out
long haul and decided it was worth having a life and a job instead.

It's really unfortunate for everyone that it ended this way.

~~~
eof
This still looks like a win for geohot though. Unless there is something
missing from the agreement, a 'permanent injuction' on one person hosting
information that has already spread virally is basically worthless to sony.

I'm sure his idealism faded sitting on the wrong side of a table of lawyers,
though.

~~~
roel_v
"This still looks like a win for geohot though."

What part of it, exactly?

~~~
wtallis
The part where he doesn't have to pay Sony millions of dollars in damages.

~~~
jarin
You could say the same thing about all the people who settle with the RIAA
then.

~~~
wtallis
Trials are never a sure thing, especially when the other side has deeper
pockets, and especially when the laws at issue are so messed up.

Hotz gets out of this with his fame and bank account intact, his hack is
already out there, and Sony's still defending against a class-action lawsuit
that has the potential to restore OtherOS functionality for everybody else and
force Sony to pay damages. The only limitation on Hotz is that he can't do it
again to the same company, but he probably won't need to since he's already
got root for his PS3.

This settlement is a cease-fire that neither side will want to violate, and
Sony didn't get any of what they wanted. (They didn't even make an example of
Hotz to scare off other hackers!) It's definitely a win for Hotz, and it's not
a loss for the rest of us.

------
simias
The comments on this blog entry scare me. Fanboyism and groupthink pushed to
the limit.

EDIT: ah well, I see that this opinion is shared. It kind of cheers me up.
Kind of.

~~~
jcarreiro
Many of the commenters at Ars Technica (which has been following this story
closely) have similar opinions of Sony and of Mr. Hotz.

Those praising the actions of Sony don't seem to understand any of the larger
issues here. It doesn't matter to them that free inquiry is being destroyed in
order to shield the embarrassing secrets of a huge corporation from public
view, as long as they can boot up their game console and play their shiny new
video game without any inconvenience.

~~~
citricsquid
can we blame them?

~~~
alexqgb
For what? Their own lack of perspective?

Interesting to see, however, that the side people take is an efficient
indicator of their intelligence level - not as in IQ, but as in CIA (on its
better days).

------
nzmsv
What can't believe are the comments on that page. Are people really that eager
to praise their "overlords" in the name of "better gaming"? But can there
really be that many trolls?

The scary part is that these are most likely real people, who like their
control and surveillance just fine, and are the majority. Which means we will
probably see a completely locked down internet sooner or later.

~~~
JonnieCache
They are 14 year old playstation fanboys, who have a religious devotion to
their console brand of choice. This stems from the teenage search for
identity. Having made violently strong cases for their favoured console in
arguments with their friends at school, they are now ideologically wedded to
this position and unable to deviate from it one iota for fear of the
inconsistency being seen as weakness, and more importantly, of it undermining
their own fragile sense of who they are: a Playstation Fan.

It's basically a microcosm of partisan politics. Don't worry too much about
it.

EDIT: Alternatively they could be very lazy astroturfers.

EDIT2: The comparison of console wars to partisan politics has raised another
question that I've never considered before: what will happen in a few decades
time when the children of people who have themselves been gaming since
childhood reach their teen years? Will we see similar patterns to politics,
where children tend to inherit their views from their parents without
question? Will parents war with their children over their opposing views on
gaming?

 _"This family has played nintendo for four generations! I'll be damned if any
son of mine is going to play an xbox 1080 under my roof!"_

~~~
mquander
Regarding your second edit, it's not as if brand loyalty is some amazing
emergent phenomenon in the 14-year-old-game-console-consumer-ecosystem. People
are just as loyal to brands of operating systems, cars, banks, food, pants,
cigarettes, useful pocket tools, kitchenware, and high-efficiency toilets, and
they've been so forever.

~~~
JonnieCache
You are right. The difference between consoles and the rest of those product
categories is that people do not typically have them as a core part of their
identity in the way that children often do with video games, and the way that
many people do with political parties. Well, maybe they do for operating
systems.

However, while politics remains a defining factor in peoples views of
themselves well into adulthood and parenthood, console/OS choice does not.

Those people for whom it does are probably less likely to breed so the effect
will likely not be measurable.

~~~
PidGin128
Ford and John Deere are two brands that I believe have been integrated into
the identity of some. I'm trying to think of other examples, news, maybe
beverages? coke&pepsi is now obvious to me, others are harder. I guess
apple/google/microsoft is the only other I can find.

~~~
contextfree
Canon vs. Nikon cameras?

------
bep
George Hotz is not telling much either for the moment
[http://geohotgotsued.blogspot.com/2011/04/joining-sony-
boyco...](http://geohotgotsued.blogspot.com/2011/04/joining-sony-boycott.html)

~~~
logic
The final judgement has been posted at psx-scene.com:

[http://psx-scene.com/forums/f6/settlement-george-hotz-case-8...](http://psx-
scene.com/forums/f6/settlement-george-hotz-case-84881/)

Note that this does not include the confidential memorandum of understanding
(page 1, line 20), which would contain the meat of what was actually agreed to
by both parties.

~~~
chopsueyar
Wikileaks, where are you?

------
dhechols
_sigh_ "Hey George. We're your new corporate overlords, telling you to keep
quiet about PS3_CONSTANT_ENCRYPTION_KEY." "Ok, can we talk?"

"We'll see you in court." "Shit."

Time passes...

"Hey Sony, here's a ton of money, leave me alone." "Ok."

I cannot express how disappointed I am in this result.

~~~
wtallis
There's no evidence that Hotz had to pay Sony _anything_ as part of this
settlement.

------
catshirt
" _Sony is glad to put this litigation behind us,” said Riley Russell, General
Counsel for SCEA._ "

likely because they realized they were being dipshits half way through. glad
this case is over and i can't believe it wasted so much time. my respect and
empathy goes to hotz; i'm sure his past few months were miserable.

------
Xuzz
Is their case against fail0verflow, who found most of the vulnerabilities
geohot actually used to jailbreak it (and re-ported Linux, for example), still
on? There's not many details in this post or anywhere else online.

~~~
jevinskie
Sony also dismissed the case against the rest of the defendants (f0f members
included). It looked like Sony didn't bother to go after any defendant but
geohot after they filed the case. However, SCEE is still suing Alexander
Egorenkov (graf_chokolo) in Germany to the tune of 1,000,000 Euro.

------
fleitz
I wonder what the 'permanent injunction' prevents him from doing?

Having been in similar situations in court facing virtually unlimited legal
budgets and opposing counsel focused on PR victories I can understand why
geohotz settled, however, the wording of the statement tells me that the
permanent injunction agreed to actually doesn't prevent much otherwise it
would be more heavily touted.

I have a feeling this statement "a preliminary injunction was issued requiring
Hotz to take down the postings challenged by SCEA." reveals that the
injunction was to permanently remove the postings. (eg. Hotz won!)

~~~
greyfade
It prevents him from doing whatever's in the injunction order.

... Which is under seal, and will only ever be seen by the parties in the
case, the Court clerk, and the Judge.

------
steipete
Sucks. He should have gone down the road, fighting for his rights to _legally_
hack the PS3.

~~~
nkassis
Yeah but at the same time it's not just him that should have to deal with all
the trouble that fighting would have caused him. Sometimes you have to pick
your fights.

~~~
extension
Too bad, because he seemed to be winning and he had enough public support to
take the fight as far as he wanted. He could have made an example of Sony.
They will likely choose someone more vulnerable for their next victim.

~~~
afterburner
"seemed to be winning"

What do you base that on, community support? Some initial faintly favourable
legal maneuvers? A specific turn of phrase in a legal book would have decided
this in the end. And then been appealed, multiple times.

------
johng
I wonder how much the anonymous pressure weighed on their decision for a quick
settlement?

~~~
roel_v
Given the terms, probably 0.

~~~
andrewcooke
what are the terms? (you talk as if you know them; i can't find any info
anywhere)

------
emullet
Does this mean my donation to his 'defense fund' was actually paid to Sony as
part of the settlement?

~~~
Natsu
That assumes he paid Sony something, which isn't necessarily true. Given the
way things were going, I personally feel that the impetus to settle came from
Sony's side, knowing they had a weak case.

It's too bad we don't know all the terms.

------
yardie
Meh, PS3 is the last console I'll ever buy. I guess for Sony this is a Pyrrhic
victory. What they have done is gone out of their way to prove that no, you
don't own that box. You bought a box and we can change the contents.

------
praptak
"Our motivation for bringing this litigation was to protect our intellectual
property _and our consumers._ "

Yeah, right. I just hope that any manufacturers of the stuff I own will
refrain from "protecting" me in a similar way.

------
daimyoyo
For me, the damage to Sony has already been done. I will never buy another
Sony product as long as I live.

------
vitobcn
It seems the settlement documents are available on psx-scene.com

~~~
dcarlson
I skimmed it - It's boring. From my reading, George can't hack any more Sony
products or talk about hacking Sony products, or direct anyone to talk about
hacking Sony products. No money, No promises (though there is some talk about
where they promise to sue each other if they do this again). That's it.

~~~
logic
This is the important part of what you've read:

    
    
        19 On March 31,2011, Hotz met with SCEA representatives and the Parties entered
        20 a confidential Memorandum of Understanding, agreeing to settle the dispute between
        21 them.
    

There's another document (that won't be revealed unless someone leaks it) that
details what was actually agreed to.

------
forwardslash
Any details on the settlement?

~~~
lloeki
Most probably the settlement includes a clause not to talk about the
settlement. Also, the second clause of the club^Wsettlement is... well you get
the point.

------
jonursenbach
I wonder if the recent Anonymous attacks, specifically on Howard Stringer's
family, had anything to do with this.

------
madmaze
It almost seems like the the sony comments are filtered to only display pro
sony comments. Its sad to see so many people cheer for sony.

------
jarin
The comments on that post seem awfully one-sided.

------
NHQ
GeoHot raised arms for a battle. George Hotz exited through the alley.

------
chopsueyar
Where's the beef? There are no real details.

------
lzy
Final judgement with more details if anyone's interested, kinda disappointing
actually.

<http://goo.gl/NAvNl>

~~~
dchest
Normal link [PDF]: [http://psx-
scene.com/forums/attachments/f6/26802-settlement-...](http://psx-
scene.com/forums/attachments/f6/26802-settlement-george-hotz-
case-127-stipulation.pdf)

------
drstrangevibes
ka...wha?! I want my money back! I didnt support him so he can settle?!

~~~
dailyrorschach
But you donated to a legal defense fund. You may have hoped for a different
outcome, but the fund was for the defense of the individual, and in this case
settlement was likely the best defense.

But maybe he promised not to settle in soliciting donations, all I see is a
blog post saying here is a legal defense fund. And even if he said he would
demand certain things, the fact remains that he was defending himself and has
to make the right call.

~~~
drstrangevibes
No the fund was not for the defence of an individual. You assume that the
defence was for an individual and not a community. (from geohot.com)
"Together, we can help fix the system". Hardly sounds self serving does it?
The community rallied because it was largely felt that an attack on GH was an
attack on all of us. I may have reconsidered my donation if GH had said
"Together we can help save my ass"

~~~
uxp
You could have gone to the courthouse in California and announced yourself as
one of the Does who wished to be represented fairly in court if you felt that
this court case involved you just as much as it involved him.

In another context, GeoHot saying "Together, we ..." is much like his saying
"if you want your console to be secure get in touch with me, any of you 3",
and SCEA interpreting that as extorsion. If anything, it goes to prove that
GeoHot is not an English major and has difficulty being succinct and direct in
writing. Assuming that he actually is going to band the community together to
"stick it to the man" is fairly naive. He was the one being sued, and his
number one priority was to stay out of jail and not get his paycheck garnished
for the next 65 years.

~~~
dchest
_You could have gone to the courthouse in California and announced yourself as
one of the Does who wished to be represented fairly in court_

Very interesting, I didn't know this was possible. Are there any cases when
people did this that I can read about? Thanks!

