
Say No to the “Cashless Future” – and to Cashless Stores - dredmorbius
https://www.aclu.org/blog/privacy-technology/consumer-privacy/say-no-cashless-future-and-cashless-stores
======
Arbalest
The thing I don't like about the move to cashless most, is that it is very
much centered around payment systems in the private sector. It makes the
middleman compulsory. Our Australian government is moving to make all payments
over $10,000AUD cashless only. Thus making middlemen practically compulsory.
If government wants to seek their means of deanonymisation for money
laundering, make sure that there's an easy way to do that without middlemen
taking a cut.

~~~
L_226
> If government wants to seek their means of deanonymisation for money
> laundering, make sure that there's an easy way to do that without middlemen
> taking a cut.

Ah, but that would mean their mates at the big 4 would not get their fat
bonuses.

------
newscracker
Cash is freedom in ways that the "bank payments society" [1] (which people
refer to with the euphemism "cashless") can never be. Cash is also resilient
in ways that the "bank payments society" cannot be.

"In Praise of Cash" [1] is a fantastic essay on this. HN discussion on that
from 2017. [2]

[1]: [https://aeon.co/essays/if-plastic-replaces-cash-much-that-
is...](https://aeon.co/essays/if-plastic-replaces-cash-much-that-is-good-will-
be-lost)

[2]:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13782561](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13782561)

------
kryptonomist
I am not an economist, but in this world of negative interest-rates (now
common in Europe), another reason for cashless is to prevent people from
keeping cash at home, behavior that make sense when the bank is making you pay
for having a positive account.

And as a cryptocurrency enthusiast, this cashless trend is also a way to make
it harder to hide your crypto assets: hand-to-hand exchange of cash against
crypto is indeed one of the best anonymization way.

~~~
imtringued
It's basically a way to make bank runs illegal.

~~~
internet_user
You have to pull out cash from the bank for a bank run to occur. Can't you buy
gold or some other cash substitute instead?

Could be even more difficult to detect than abnormal spike in cash withdrawals
via ATMs.

~~~
milesvp
Spending money is taking money out of your bank account. Any event where more
money leaves a bank than they have reserves to cover it is a run on the bank.
I think what you may be elluding to is that digital transfer of funds makes
the effects of a bank run different than than when cash is involved, since
real money in hand cash is much more limited than a bank’s total reserves.

------
mullingitover
This seems silly. Accepting cash endangers the lives of employees and
generally enables all sorts of financial shenanigans. Rather than attacking
the business, the ACLU should address the structural issues that prevent
people from participating in the mainstream economy.

~~~
darth_skywalker
>> Accepting cash endangers the lives of employees and generally enables all
sorts of financial shenanigans.

Financial "shenanigans" seem to be more likely with credit/debit cards
actually.

~~~
mullingitover
There's something like 2 trillion dollars laundered annually, and a lot of
this happens through shops that use anonymous cash transactions to do it.

~~~
dredmorbius
Source?

~~~
mullingitover
> "The estimated amount of money laundered globally in one year is 2 - 5% of
> global GDP, or $800 billion - $2 trillion in current US dollars. Though the
> margin between those figures is huge, even the lower estimate underlines the
> seriousness of the problem governments have pledged to address."

[https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/money-
laundering/globalizatio...](https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/money-
laundering/globalization.html)

~~~
dredmorbius
I meant source for "a lot of this happens through shops that use anonymous
cash transactions".

$2 trillion in $10 bodega transactions is 200 billion bodega transactions.
Something tells me it's not the silver in the till that's the main problem. Or
even the notes.

