
Show HN: Helvetitee: Custom tee. No bullshit. (Our four-day startup) - tomcavill
http://helvetitee.com/tee/%23HackerNews
======
antihero
So £25 (fairly expensive) for a t-shirt based on a fairly dead meme that is
available in one colour and can have no other details? Apple fans are going to
_love_ it.

In all serious, I'd be tempted if this was sub ten quid but for £25 you can
get so so so much more for your money, and if you're willing to pay that for a
white t-shirt with a word on it you have far too much money.

~~~
tomcavill
Fair point. We'll come up with a better price as everyone seems to agree it's
too high.

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rhizome
How did you come up with the current price?

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tomcavill
We wanted to ensure we could post anywhere in the world and not lose money or
have to charge extra. I think at this price orders will be slow though, so
we've slashed it to $25 to see what happens. Should still make a profit unless
the order is in very far-flung lands.

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courtewing
I really dig the simplicity of the process. I love that the entire top of the
homepage not only shows exactly what you offer, but it is, essentially, your
entire user-facing product. The price point is a little high compared to
normal custom t-shirt offerings, but if you're offering higher quality shirts
and a better user experience, then that isn't a bad thing.

A couple of suggestions:

1\. The person/model used for the primary image/ordering system looks
_miserable_. "Look, you can get your own custom shirt, but it isn't going to
make you happy" doesn't exactly seem like the message you're trying to send
here! A smile would go a really long way. Also, the cropping around the hair
makes it look a little less professional. I'm not a designer, and I'm sure it
is difficult to get something like that perfect, but I think it is worth the
effort given how prominent the photo is.

2\. The photos of the t-shirts themselves make the t-shirts look like they're
low quality (specifically, really thin). I'm not a huge fan of white shirts in
general, but I definitely don't want _any_ t-shirt that I can actively see
through. Sure, your "gallery" model may be attractive, but it doesn't look
very professional (nor does it speak highly of your shirts) if you can see her
bra through the product.

3\. I feel like the "About, delivery & more" link should really link to the
"About" section. I was a little confused when it jumped down the page and I
was just staring at some random "suggestions" which, in my case, were not
interesting. There's nothing wrong with the suggestions, I just don't think
they should be more prominent than "About".

4\. I'm on a 27" thunderbolt display, and the marketing material in your
bottom tabs is taking up less than half of the bottom of my screen when I am
scrolled down as far as I can go. That's not the worst thing in the world, but
I would rather scroll down than just change the bottom 40% of my screen when I
click "tabs".

5\. I'd want more information about the product, the company, and possibly you
before I order anything. If you're trying to sell quality, then a full page
talking about how damn awesome your shirts are would go a long way to
converting me to a customer. And after you sold me on the product itself, I
still wouldn't feel safe ordering anything from an unestablished company with
no business address, almost no information about the people behind it, and no
contact means other than email/twitter.

All in all though, it is cool to see what you can accomplish in only four
days. Best of luck.

~~~
tomcavill
Thanks for the really comprehensive feedback.

I actually agree with every point you raise. We've got a great deal to improve
upon but like you say at the end, it has only been a quick project thus far.

I hope you'll take a look back (or follow one of us on twitter - @tomcavill /
@helvetitee / @ccharlesworth) so you can see the site improve over the next
few weeks.

Thanks again for taking the time to comment.

~~~
ljd
I think the site is pretty awesome but I had the same exact feeling about the
price. If you're interested, I don't mind helping out with that.

We have an API that you can use to maximize profit over time. You send us
order information, we build a pricing model, then you make calls out to the
model to either update it with a new order or get a price.

For more info (we actually use tshirts as an example):
<https://ventata.com/Ecommerce/Home> && <https://github.com/Ventata/API>

Send me an email and I'll give you an API key.

(Don't go through my normal site, you'll have to pay that way)

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citricsquid
I like that you included photos of the printed t-shirts, also I like that
you're using a printer with no web presence so we can't go straight to the
supplier, hah.

A cute idea that might help people to spread their shirts: If someone creates
a shirt (let's say I'm miley cyrus and I make one for my fans, "I <3
@mileycyrus") and it gets x (5?) sales they get a free copy of the t-shirt.
That would give users an incentive to share their creation with their Facebook
friends and Twitter followers.

The way you described the t-shirts makes them sound quite appealing so I
figure I'll order one, no idea what to put on it though... :( maybe "I just
wanted a t-shirt".

oh also I assume "handmade in London" refers to the business; but with
t-shirts it would read as if you're saying the t-shirts are handmade in
London, which isn't true.

~~~
tomcavill
That's a great idea, and something close to what we're thinking a few versions
down the line. The free shirt after 5 purchases is very clever, and probably a
better model than standard affiliate stuff.

I've changed the footer based on hearing this suggestion a couple of times :)

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emelski
There are literally dozens of "make your own t-shirt" offerings online, most
with a wider array of shirt colors and the ability to include your own
graphics in addition to text, at a price comparable or cheaper than you are
offering (cafepress.com, inktastic.com, etc). I've used these services myself
and found them easy, not at all "cumbersome" as you state on helvetitee.com.

What value does your offering have in comparison to your competition?

~~~
tomcavill
We view our simplicity as a benefit. Sure SpreadShirt and their ilk offer
thousands of options, but when you _just_ want a message printed clearly on a
tshirt, we provide a solution that you can take advantage of in seconds. It's
very easy to make a pig's ear of your shirt with those other services. With
Helvetitee, it's actually hard to make something ugly.

Your point on the pricing is fair, it's something we'll have to monitor and
find out what people are comfortable with.

Thanks for the feedback.

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bbee
Can't help but call out that the homepage uses a image ripped off America
Apparel
([http://store.americanapparel.net/bb401.html?cid=198-313&...](http://store.americanapparel.net/bb401.html?cid=198-313&c=White))
and they sell Gildan shirts. Still, more of a side project than I've ever
done.

~~~
tomcavill
Guilty. We took a few shortcuts to get it done in our timeframe (4 days). We
will of course be replacing this ASAP (we were originally going to use AA
hence this image).

Just wanted to get the first version out there and pick up feedback.

~~~
bbee
Sorry, couldn't help myself ;) I really like how straightforward the
UI/ordering process is. Very impressive for only 4 days work.

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MojoJolo
I like it. One comment though, I thought the "Type to edit your text" is a
textbox. It's because I clicked somewhere in the website and the cursor focus
is not in the shirt. :)

~~~
tomcavill
Changed the helper text, hopefully this fixes.

~~~
MojoJolo
That might do the trick.

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lifeguard
This is a fail:

No XXL sizes in a store for hackers?!?

Nice design, though!

~~~
tomcavill
Haha, we will react to demand on that front.

Thanks re: design. Nice to hear.

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noonespecial
Nice. Very nice. The simplicity is extremely appealing. I'm going to jump on
the "price too high" bandwagon as well. Unless you really need that price to
cover costs and make any profit at all, I'm going to suggest that you can make
_more_ money selling them for just a little less.

You're sitting right at that point where a slight ease in price is going to
result in a significant increase in quantity sold. Unless your production
capacity is constrained or you're already very near your break-even point on
cost/price, charge less and sell more.

~~~
tomcavill
Thanks. You're right. We've changed the price down to $25 based on so much
feedback suggesting it.

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bluetidepro
For ~$40(USD) I want a much higher quality shirt than Gildan. That seems
ridiculously over priced. With a quick Google search "Gildan's 100% cotton,
ringspun, pre-shrunk sofstyle tshirts" (what the about page says you use), the
shirts cost less than $3.00(USD) to buy in bulk.

 _Suggestion:_ Why not lower your profit margin a little bit (you have to be
making at least $30+ USD on each order right now) to make it more affordable?
I just imagine this could probably go much more viral at a more affordable
price.

~~~
tomcavill
All the feedback so far indicates our pricing is too high. That'll definitely
be the first thing we'll fix.

------
tomcavill
Thanks for all the feedback so far. We've changed the price to $25 (formerly
£25) as almost everyone said the price was too (damn) high. Margins will be
cut significantly, but it was definitely too high before, and we'll still make
a small profit with the new price.

We're probably going to put it up to $30 after the opening two weeks, so
consider this an 'early adopter' discount...

Here's a humble suggestion for fellow HNers:
<http://helevetitee.com/tee/Founder>

~~~
alexchamberlain
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH YOU ARE BRITISH; DON'T PRICE IN DOLLARS.

~~~
tomcavill
We'll intro geo-based pricing asap :)

~~~
alexchamberlain
I know the GP wasn't very well reasoned, but it really frustrates me that
British startups think it is ok it's OK to price in dollars. You are
alienating your home market and Europe in order to sell to another. Tackle
your home market first; if people in the US really want your product, they can
put up with fluctuating prices and crappy exchange rates for once.

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marknutter
I was really hoping this was going to be a way to get a t-shirt that has the
perfect cut and fit, which is difficult to do. I'd pay real money for a site
that guided me on how to get accurate measurements of all the key areas which
then enabled them to create perfect, custom-fit basic t-shirts in a wide
variety of colors and styles. Heck.. even just white crew-necks.

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davidtyleryork
I think this site is going after a good initial target market: hackers. Making
it dead fucking simple is a nice touch

BUT 25 British Pounds for a tshirt basically makes you ridiculously expensive
to any American. Why would I pay $40 for a t-shirt ever? It doesn't matter how
"hacker cool" it is :)

If you localized, you would significantly improve your prospects in the US.

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highace
My input: more colours, and a better cut t-shirt. No one I know wears plain
white round-neck cotton t-shirts.

How about something like this:
[http://images.asos.com/inv/media/9/3/6/7/2477639/greymarl/im...](http://images.asos.com/inv/media/9/3/6/7/2477639/greymarl/image1xl.jpg)

Taken from here: [http://www.asos.com/ASOS/ASOS-V-Neck-T-
Shirt/Prod/pgeproduct...](http://www.asos.com/ASOS/ASOS-V-Neck-T-
Shirt/Prod/pgeproduct.aspx?iid=2477639&SearchQuery=asos%20v%20neck&Rf-800=-1,9&sh=0&pge=0&pgesize=20&sort=-1&clr=Greymarl)

If they can sell them for 6 quid, surely you could pick up something similar
for just a few pounds.

~~~
tomcavill
Yeah I like v-necks too. It's definitely something we'll consider, but it has
to balance with not having too many options (simplicity being the by-word for
this project).

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cpher
I like the concept, but the photos make it look like the fabric is "less than
stellar." Can you provide a hardy/hearty fabric that doesn't show the skin
beneath the models? I created a rather expensive t-shirt here in Chicago and
the fabric was pathetic....I felt sorry for my friend who was the recipient,
even though my "logo" was clever. No one wants a t-shirt that shows the
underlying chest hair or nipples of the people.

~~~
tomcavill
I know the fabric does appear a little thin in the photos, but honestly,
they're really high quality tees. We consulted with our printer and they
assured us they are the best available at a reasonable price point. I think
the see-throughness is exacerbated by the harsh flash from the camera. In
reality they are a good weight and made from high quality cotton.

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Wintamute
Liked it! Although the image of the model is horribly cut out, especially on
the left of his head. Its the very first thing I saw and it screams
"amateurish" at me. Not that the site as a whole is amateurish, just that bit!
Also the photo looks washed out and a bit fuzzy. His expression is a bit bored
and/or confrontational too.

~~~
tomcavill
Accept that. It looks a damn sight better on a light background, but we
changed it to dark gray hours before launch. The image will be replaced
shortly so I'll sort out my cutting skills then ;)

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ethan_t
Congrats to you guys. Loving the dead simple process and clean UI design. I
will definitely put in an order for the support of hacker's spirit.

Btw, how do you plan to do marketing on this? (Besides posting it on Hacker
News - which probably brought you a ton of traffic already)

~~~
tomcavill
Thanks, very kind.

We're going to try and utilise the fact you can 'create' a tshirt with just a
link, i.e. <http://helvetitee.com/tee/foo-bar>. It's so quick to react to
trends and happenings, or suggest a tee to someone based on their actions,
that we feel the product can benefit from virality and p2p sharing. Plus a
healthy mix of the usual Google ads etc.

~~~
shanecleveland
That's an excellent idea. Love the simplicity.

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ruswick
I don't see any value in this as a product. $25 for a shirt is incredibly
expensive, especially printing is limited to text in one typeface on one side
of one type of shirt. It's pricey and limited. I just don't see why I would
want to use it.

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aw3c2
Random feedback: I tried removing the "type to edit your text" text and enter
my text there.

Your model looks very negative in expression. Also you have some left-over
glow around the head.

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eth
Dynamic volume/quantity pricing would be cool.

Tees are light enough that whether I order 1 or 3 any increase in weight (and
thus shipping costs) will be nominal.

~~~
tomcavill
Definitely on the roadmap

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logn
The domain name needs some serious improvement. I think I'd need flashcards to
remember how to spell it or even try to google it.

~~~
mark-r
The site name implies Helvetica, but uses Arial in the examples. Anybody who
knows the difference will never come back.

~~~
tomcavill
We are using Helvetica Neue with Helvetica as a fall-back, and a Helvetica
clone (Nimbus sans) after those two in the font stack. You'd have to have some
funny configuration not to see Helvetica. What's your setup?

~~~
seekely
On a Windows box, Helvetica is aliased to Arial as true Helvetica is not
installed.

~~~
tomcavill
Didn't realise that. Looking for ways to ensure that doesn't happen. Do you
have any ideas?

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gadders
Good effort for making a bootstrap site not too bootstrappy. Also, how many
people pronounce it Helv-Titty?

~~~
tomcavill
Ha. Maybe too many. We're not closed to the idea of changing the name if we
think of a good one. Suggestions?

Thanks re: bootstrap.

~~~
logn
shirts.io

~~~
tomcavill
That's very cool. I wonder if .io domains are too geek-centric, though?

It's very memorable.

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slantyyz
It would be cool if they included Cooper Black for those of us who grew up in
the 70s and 80s.

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superchink
It looks like they've already dropped the price from $45 to $25. Huge
difference…

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rorrr
$40 for a shirt with a word on it? That's bullshit.

I can have a custom Gildan shirt for $16:

<http://www.customizedgirl.com/category/menstops.htm>

