
Turning on Project Loon in Puerto Rico - troydavis
https://blog.x.company/turning-on-project-loon-in-puerto-rico-f3aa41ad2d7f
======
jgrahamc
When I did my high altitude balloon I was struck by the changing wind
directions at different altitudes. In this blog there's a picture of the
actual drifting flight path:
[http://blog.jgc.org/2011/04/gaga-1-flight.html](http://blog.jgc.org/2011/04/gaga-1-flight.html)

This flight path was pretty closely predicted 48 hours before using NOAA
predicted wind data (see this blog:
[http://blog.jgc.org/2011/04/gaga-1-looking-good-for-
sunday.h...](http://blog.jgc.org/2011/04/gaga-1-looking-good-for-
sunday.html)). The difference in size between the two 'loops' is caused by a
slow ascent and rapid descent.

If I'd had altitude control (like Loon) and uploaded data on wind speed it
would have been possible to make the balloon hang around a target area.

~~~
dmix
That's interesting, it seemed like the most challenging problem to solve given
the balloons are always moving. They mention using machine learning to perfect
the coverage:

> This is the first time we have used our new machine learning powered
> algorithms to keep balloons clustered over Puerto Rico, so we’re still
> learning how best to do this. As we get more familiar with the constantly
> shifting winds in this region, we hope to keep the balloons over areas where
> connectivity is needed for as long as possible.

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modeless
Check out the balloon flight paths by clicking on them
[https://www.flightradar24.com/18.22,-66.59/8](https://www.flightradar24.com/18.22,-66.59/8)

~~~
arosier
That's amazing! Check out the difference in altitude compared to the
commercial jets flying near-by:

Boeing 767-316 - Alt: 33,000 ft

Balloon - Alt: 61,900 ft

~~~
smhg
In meters:

Boeing 767-316 - Alt: 10058 m

Balloon - Alt: 18867 m

~~~
jdavis703
Aeronautical measures are generally done in feet, even outside the U.S.

~~~
anticodon
No, it's not true.

~~~
sbierwagen
Sorry, the only countries that specify altitude in metres for aviation
purposes are Russia, China and North Korea-- and Russia is switching to feet
this year: [http://aerosavvy.com/metric-
imperial/](http://aerosavvy.com/metric-imperial/)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_level](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_level)

------
arosier
Definitely the most interesting part of this project in my opinion.

> This is the first time we have used our new machine learning powered
> algorithms to keep balloons clustered over Puerto Rico, so we’re still
> learning how best to do this. As we get more familiar with the constantly
> shifting winds in this region, we hope to keep the balloons over areas where
> connectivity is needed for as long as possible.

[https://blog.x.company/how-project-loons-smart-software-
lear...](https://blog.x.company/how-project-loons-smart-software-learned-to-
sail-the-winds-ec904e6d08c)

Apparently, back in 2016 they launched the balloons from Puerto Pico to do
their first test of the autopilot system in Peru. Now they are flying the
balloons from Nevada to implement it in Puerto Rico.

> we had figured out how to cluster balloons in teams, dancing in small loops
> on the stratospheric winds, over a particular region.

~~~
slackingoff2017
This is insane. They're using ML to predict wind speeds at different altitudes
and how to move the balloons with their various speed and power restrictions
to optimize on-the-ground connectivity while maintaining close enough clusters
and decent backhaul. Incredible.

~~~
ballooney
To be clear, it's not so much they are using ML to predict wind speeds at
different altitudes; they use a forecast model like everyone else for that.
The clever bit is being able to control your altitude such that you find
favorable wind-altitude tuples to be in to keep you generally in one spot over
days/weeks. It's sort of like what ocean/circumnavigating sailors do but in a
higher dimensional space, both literally and in your search algorithm.
Fascinating stuff.

~~~
oh_sigh
The loons don't need to stay in one spot - for example, two loons could rotate
around a common center point and provide good service. Allowing the loons to
wander while optimizing ground connectivity is harder computationally but
makes it possible to maintain good connections even if the wind isn't entirely
cooperating.

------
pitaa
That is pretty awesome. I didn't realize the scale and complexity of what they
were doing. When I first heard reference to this, I for some reason assumed
that these were simple tethered balloons, not stratospheric swarms of AI
balloons!

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Ice_cream_suit
"The 100G program is exploring high-order modulation and spatial multiplexing
techniques to achieve the 100 Gb/s capacity at ranges of 200 km air-to-air and
100 km air-to-ground from a high-altitude (e.g. 60,000 ft.) aerial platform.
The 100G program is developing the technologies and system concepts to project
fiber optic class 100 Gb/s capacity via airborne data links anywhere within
the area of responsibility (AOR).

Modern expeditionary military missions generate and exchange massive amounts
of data that are used to produce situational awareness and guide decision-
making. Much of the data must travel long distances along backbone
communications networks composed of high-capacity links that interconnect
command centers. While optical fiber services can provide a multi-gigabit data
backbone in many parts of the world, modern expeditionary forces require a
similar capability in places where fiber access does not exist. SATCOM
services can provide some capacity to remote areas, but cannot provide the
capacity needed to support the amount of data generated by emerging ISR
systems." [https://www.darpa.mil/program/100-gb-s-rf-
backbone](https://www.darpa.mil/program/100-gb-s-rf-backbone)

------
kakarot
Haven't seen Loon in the headlines for a while. This is really cool. In
hindsight, disaster relief seems like such an obvious application for a
technology like Loon.

Google could catch some serious tax breaks as well as goodwill if they worked
out deals for providing impromptu connectivity services in disaster zones.

~~~
phegde
Yea, loon was unheard for a while, together with tesla both can get Puerto
Rico back online ASAP.

~~~
rz2k
Is SolarCity considered a quicker replacement to the damaged power grid and
supply?

That a truck can carry far more energy in the form of petroleum than it can in
the form of batteries is one of the arguments against _wasting_ fossil fuels
on non-extreme conditions, like regular transportation and non-emergency
electric power generation.

For Puerto Rico right now cheap, even if relatively inefficient, generators
and lots of fuel seems like a good way to help in the very short term.
Military surplus diesel generators, for example, are really cheap for how much
power they can output with enough fuel.

~~~
ben_w
They aren’t directly comparable. You ship a truckload of PV and once installed
it keeps providing daytime power without further delivery; you ship a battery
to somwhere with PV and that power can now be made in the day and used at
night, every day/night for a few years.

Even without batteries, shipping PV will at least keep the freezers cold (and
food fresh).

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TheAceOfHearts
AFAIK, many other big-name companies have been donating manpower and resources
to help get PR back on its feet. What makes this announcement any more
noteworthy? I'd get it if it included a bit more information, but the blog
post reads as marketing fluff.

Does anyone know of any reliable sources showing in-depth sample numbers from
previous deployments? I'd be really interested in getting an idea of what area
size these balloons could cover, for how long it can be reliably maintained
over an area, and their expected throughput. The Helping out in Peru [0] post
has a bit of info, but it's very light on details.

If anyone is familiarized with these industries, I'd love to read up on the
kinds of challenges faced with getting something like this deployed. Looking
at it from an outsider's perspective, being without connectivity for over a
month seems like a pretty long time. It's great that Project Loon is seeing
improvements in their deployment time, but the article doesn't shed any light
on the process, which is rather disappointing.

[0] [https://blog.x.company/helping-out-in-
peru-9e5a84839fd2](https://blog.x.company/helping-out-in-peru-9e5a84839fd2)

~~~
melling
It’s newsworthy because an experimental Google X project is being used to
solve a real world problem.

The US military might spend a billion dollars in aid, for example, but the
world won’t be any different in the future, beyond the lives directly
impacted, because of this.

------
rgbrenner
Im sure there are a few people who will find Loon's service useful.. but 80%
are without power, so they're mostly not going to use internet anyway -- no
power means cell phones cant be charged, etc. Some have generators, but are
they able to get fuel? Emergency personnel cant even get fuel to deliver food
and medicine.

Internet and cell service is being restored at a similar rate to power..
probably because these two depend on each other.

So it seems like this is only really useful to people traveling from one of
the areas with power to an area without power (first responders, workers doing
repairs, etc).

Still a good use case for Loon though.

~~~
pmorici
You can easily charge a small device like a phone off solar panels, esp. in
Puerto Rico a place known for sun.

~~~
rgbrenner
good point.

I wonder how many people had portable solar panels before the hurricanes
though. It's not like they could order it after the hurricane. And the solar
panels on people's houses are probably damaged... two hurricanes would do
that.

~~~
pmorici
logistics of distributing small solar panels are almost certainly easier than
generators + having to resupply them with fuel regularly.

~~~
rgbrenner
sure.. but they have issues distributing food and medicine.. do you really
think they're distributing a lot of solar panels?

~~~
pmorici
If they decided they needed to get emergency power for radio communications to
people and the choices were between generators w/ a supply of gas or portable
solar charging kits I know which I would choose.

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msh
Hmm what kind of signal are they sending out? LTE/wifi?

~~~
jpm_sd
It's a custom LTE base station.

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tyingq
Be nice if they could also airdrop some cheap already charged 2g phones.

