
College bribery scandal: students sue elite schools in class action - vixen99
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/mar/14/college-admisisons-scandal-fraud-lawsuit-yale-usc-stanford
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brightball
I honestly don’t understand why this is a bigger deal than what happened at
UNC. There was a 30 year scandal of fake classes at the university and somehow
degrees are intact, accreditation remains unchallenged.

But a few rich kids getting into schools where they don’t deserve to be is a
national scandal?

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Meekro
I think the only reason the government is treating it so seriously is, this
time, the university is the _victim_.

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twosheep
Yeah Matt Levine made that point this week -- the damaged party in this case
is the university, who had admission slots basically resold in a different
market

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cwilkes
Good luck with that: [https://abovethelaw.com/2019/03/current-stanford-
students-fi...](https://abovethelaw.com/2019/03/current-stanford-students-
file-class-action-because-scammers-devalued-their-degree/)

> You can’t really argue that your degree is not worth what you “thought” it
> would be, because the “worth” of a degree isn’t of an objective value
> anyway.

~~~
rixrax
I certainly think that since they let unqualified kids in, somehow the
curriculum had to adjust to, or already be of a lesser standard. To push it
even further, why would I want to go to and pay for education in X when in
fact now we know that quality of education, or passing criteria at least isn’t
maybe much different from your average community college.

Or maybe the entry criteria never was about being able to find and accept the
smartest and the brightest of each generation...

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Al-Khwarizmi
Sorry if this sound naive, but I'm not American and I don't get why this is a
scandal at all.

Isn't it common knowledge that elite universities in the US admit the children
whose parents make a strong donation to the university?

At least that's what most people think in my country. Perhaps it's a myth
though, given that this has made the news?

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Meekro
People donate money to universities all the time in exchange for admission.
But in this case, the bribes went to university employees -- who could be
bought much cheaper than the university itself. The university was the
_victim_ of a fraud by its own employees.

~~~
thefounder
Classic example. The bribe didn't go to the right people. Of course some
people must be held accountable!

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argd678
I wonder what they’ll do with the students that have graduated. Do they revoke
their degrees?

Also it would be interesting to see how well they performed overall, if they
actually performed better than legitimately accepted students what does that
say about the acceptance process?

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rixrax
No empathy. Kick those still in out, and revoke the degrees for those already
graduated. In fact if these falsely admitted kids had any sense of decency,
they would be now lining up to turn in their ‘credentials’ and degrees.

Yes, some may have not known about it. And that’s an interesting conversation
they will have with their parents about royally screwing them over. But you
don’t get a pass for breaking a law just because you were unaware of it
either.

On a more serious note, we are severely punishing people of color for trying
to advance their kids educational opportunities[0]. If we don’t offer same
courtesy to these perpetrators, what kind of country are we living in and what
kind of message will that send out?

[0] [https://educationpost.org/while-rich-people-bribe-their-
kids...](https://educationpost.org/while-rich-people-bribe-their-kids-way-
into-college-parents-of-color-sit-in-jail-for-wanting-better-schools/)

~~~
jacobolus
The kids themselves were in most cases unaware of their parents’ deception.

We shouldn’t be lining up to punish 19 year olds for their parents’ crimes.
Large fines and jail time for the parents is punishment enough here.

~~~
sbuttgereit
It's true that the kids who did not know about the wrong that granted them
admission should not be viewed as morally culpable and should not be
"punished". But to suggest that they should still be allowed to benefit from
fraud isn't the right answer either. Ill-got admission or degrees should be
revoked. Insofar as those rewards of fraud should be revoked, and the kids
unaware, the students are themselves victims of their parents along with those
others that were defrauded; that they would be harmed by the fraud of their
parents shouldn't be surprising to them or anyone else. (They are, after all,
adults).

Those still in school should be expelled on some sort of "no fault" basis.
They could then be allowed to reapply and demonstrate that they really belong
there on their own merits. For those already with degrees, it's less clear and
I don't have a good answer; I don't see any way out that either prevents the
fraud from succeeding in it's goal (untenable) or is overtly punitive towards
the student (also untenable)... the only real answer there is revoke the
degree and tell the student/victim to seek redress from the ones that
committed fraud (their parents).

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dang
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19390757](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19390757)

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dannykwells
While I don't believe much will come of this I fully support it. I think these
schools need to have a sense of repercussions instilled in them. It's not
enough to fire a coach, we need to hit them where it hurts.

The wealthy private universities are among the most powerful and least
regulated institutions in the country and its high time we treated them as
such.

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criddell
For private universities, I think you are going to run up against first
amendment problems.

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ChrisBland
As long as they take federal grants/loans the dept of education will have a
sit down with them. The interesting point will be if the NCAA steps in or not
as this was an abuse of the student athlete admission procedures. To me this
screams a lack of institutional control; if coaches are being bribed and
faking credentials and the school never picks up on it it looks bad. That
could be a punishment of loss of scholarships or up to the famous death
penalty. I’d imagine the ncaa will try to sidestep this issue as much as
possible as USC and Texas are football schools and it would cripple the
university. For those interested in learning more about college athletics, the
ncaa clearing house and what not, I’d highly recommend the book: “Beer &
Circus”. There’s a lot you don’t know about the ncaa and sports at large
universities.

