
NYTimes's Pogue going to Yahoo - nirvanatikku
http://pogueman.tumblr.com/post/64682813641/goodbye-and-hello
======
jusben1369
Here's a post that brings out the worst in HN. Start from the top and see how
far you get before you find anything positive. Here's what I hope to see i)
What people think this means for YHOO. ii) What does this mean for traditional
media and people attracted to web properties. iii) What might this service
that he's launching look like? iv) Who else might copy/follow suit on this
play?

Here's what you get I) Good riddance I hate him (real valuable) ii) Some sort
of conspiracy theory about ethics and issues. iii) Character
attack/insinuation with some cheesy comment about his hiring manager and Yahoo
based content and iv) never forget to work congress and government in there
because a guy who does quirky videos on the iPad is only one step away from
journalism and government coziness.

~~~
bstar77
Better watch out, if your post makes too much sense it will make it to the top
and no longer make sense.

~~~
jonnathanson
This may be the best summation of OP Syndrome I've ever encountered. Awesomely
stated. I may need to quote this, but I'll give you credit when I do.

Err, sorry. What I meant to say is that, while I agree with part A of your
post, part B is total garbage. In conclusion, you are 100% wrong, and in fact,
you are everything that's wrong with the internet.

------
shortformblog
Pogue had a LOT of ethical issues while at the Times—issues where he'd be more
likely be hit simply because of his employer. This move has the effect of
simultaneously giving him a bigger platform and getting him out of the eye of
the watchdogs. I can see why he went to Yahoo.

[http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffbercovici/2011/06/27/will-
th...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffbercovici/2011/06/27/will-the-ny-times-
give-david-pogue-another-pass-on-ethics/)

[http://valleywag.gawker.com/nyt-tech-columnist-david-
pogue-m...](http://valleywag.gawker.com/nyt-tech-columnist-david-pogue-
marries-pr-flack-girlfri-503800144)

[http://www.nytpick.com/2010/01/david-pogue-breaks-nyts-
ethic...](http://www.nytpick.com/2010/01/david-pogue-breaks-nyts-ethics-
rules.html)

~~~
001sky
_But this paper steadfastly focuses on responsible journalism, irconclad
ethics and superb writing. I’ll always be a loyal ally..._

This is such an _unnatural_ sentence, it doesn't surprise me at all to see it
as complete spin. Its beyond rare to pledge loyalty to a company, when you are
leaving it to join a competitor. And Newspapers are so full of conflicts of
interest (especially a place as politicised as NYT), that any reference to
'ethics' that is not self-serving is only by _coincidence_.

_________

------
ChikkaChiChi
Another shining example of ethics in journalism.

If you start small, write glowing reviews of products and company directives
so that you get invited to pressers and tours, and maybe someday you too can
get invited to go work inside the very companies the public trusted you to
cover in an unbiased fashion! Be careful though, anything under 4.5 out of 5
stars and you might get a phone call from the PR department expressing their
disappointment while they take you off of their most exclusive lists.

Congresspeople who take jobs as lobbyists after their terms in office are
synonymous with journalists who join companies they covered "in the public's
interest" during their professional careers.

(Disclaimer: I'm not saying that this was Pogue's position re: Yahoo. This is
a rampant problem in new and old media in general.)

~~~
paulnewmanseyes
To be fair to Pogue and Yahoo!, the latter's had a sizeable journalistic
operation for years now. It's not like he's going off to work in their PR
department. (Which is a thing that happens all too often, yeah)

------
Taylorious
Good riddance. Can't stand the guy. I know he attempted to make tech
accessible to the average Joe, but he always dumbed things down so much I felt
like he didn't really know what he was talking about. He also seemed to let
personal biases get in the way of the reporting.

The real reason why I didn't like him was for what he did to Nova. Nova was
one of my favorite programs growing up and he absolutely ruined it with his
annoying personality, stupid jokes/puns, and over simplifications. In a
science show the science should be first, not the twit talking about it.

~~~
larrys
"Good riddance. Can't stand the guy. "

I'm not sure I understand why you feel it is good for you if Pogue is leaving
NYT and going to Yahoo?

If you don't like him I can understand a comment like this expressing disdain
and schadenfreude because something bad happened to him. But from what is
being said (by Pogue) this is a actually something good for Pogue and has no
impact on you positive or negative. And has no impact on Nova (Pogue says
"I’ll still keep up my NOVA specials") so why the delight?

~~~
colmvp
Because if he's a reader of the NYTimes, he doesn't need to see his articles
anymore? Hopefully they'll replace him with someone who the commenter has a
higher respect for?

------
ChuckMcM
It is a good move on Pogue's part, he gets to do more of the stuff he likes to
do.

But the comments here, especially the dismissive ones, seem to miss out on his
popularity at the Times. Granted that "popularity" != "good" for a number of
things but he brought a lot of readers to the Times and that was something the
Times needs if they want to stay in business.

It annoys me when people make that choice (popularity over quality, as I felt
Dr. Michio Kaku did with his TV stuff) but I have come to recognize it is
there choice to make.

------
credo
Over the past year, Pogue has reviewed Yahoo's products on many different
occasions. Presumably, his hiring-managers read all of them.

It is quite likely that Pogue's reviews (e.g. great review of Flickr changes)
were honest reviews and that he wasn't trying to curry favor with prospective
future employers.

However, I hope that this job offer leads to more thoughts on conflicts of
interest and perhaps requirements (from NYT etc) regarding journalists
reviewing companies from whom they might accept job offers

~~~
kosei
I don't know how there's any real way to get around this, because if you don't
let a journalist write about any company where they _might_ receive a job
offer, you'll end up with a significant gap in reporting. I think that's
better than the current scenario.

------
Samuel_Michon
“Yahoo has regained its position as the #1 most visited Web site on earth.”

Is that true? Is it really visited more often than Facebook, Google, Twitter,
or YouTube? Alexa doesn’t agree[1].

According to a recent article[2], Yahoo is the most popular website in 2
regions: Japan and Hong Kong.

[1] [http://www.alexa.com/topsites](http://www.alexa.com/topsites)

[2] [http://www.fastcocreate.com/3019595/creativity-by-the-
number...](http://www.fastcocreate.com/3019595/creativity-by-the-numbers/see-
a-map-of-the-world-revealing-each-countrys-most-visited-websit)

~~~
webwright
Yep.
[https://www.google.com/search?q=yahoo+most+visited](https://www.google.com/search?q=yahoo+most+visited)

It's Yahoo properties, not Yahoo.com. Big boost: they bought Tumblr.

~~~
Samuel_Michon
From the first result:

“Yahoo ranks as the most-visited website in the U.S., according to the latest
report from ComScore” (So: ‘US’, not ‘the world’)

and: “Traffic to Tumblr [...] did not contribute to Yahoo's overall traffic
number[...] Tumblr ranked as the 28th most popular U.S. property” (Again, just
the US, and not even that popular)

[http://www.informationweek.com/cloud-
computing/software/yaho...](http://www.informationweek.com/cloud-
computing/software/yahoo-trumps-google-as-most-visited-webs/240160303)

------
cake
This is big news, Pogue was/is one of the most important tech writer in my own
opinion. He has a good approach of dumbing down tech products for the average
joe despite beeing very knowledgeable.

I guess it is showing a shift from Yahoo to be a quality content producer.

------
krosaen
To offset the negative top comments - I actually really like Pogue - his posts
in the nytimes tech at least. He seems to understand the products he's using
well enough to do a good job without getting so geeky or over concerned about
minutia that it would alienate the lay person. I of course have my other
sources for that, but I do check in on the nytimes tech section regularly.

------
shanselman
I wonder if he'll work remotely. ;)

I never understood the appeal of this guy, nor his qualifications. Both he and
Mossberg were woefully non-technical for technical reviewers.

~~~
ohjeez
Writing about technology for newspapers is a tough gig. You aren't just
writing for us geeks. You have to write for grandpa who refuses to get a cell
phone, for the boss who doesn't see a reason to upgrade a fax machine, for the
mere mortals who _need_ technology "dumbed down." Not because they are dumb
but because don't have a foundation of knowledge to build on -- or interest in
gaining that foundation.

Though I did stop reading anything from Kim Komando once she explained how a
floppy drive worked, and she got all the facts wrong. (That was long enough
ago that someone might explain how a floppy disk worked.)

------
barretts
Pogue is an okay journalist, but great at building a personal brand, which now
extends to books and the conference circuit as well as writing.

I spent seven years as an editor at top NYC magazines, and saw time and again
that great journalists - even great brand-builders - aren't usually great at
creating and managing new ventures. There are exceptions, though, and I hope
Pogue is one of them.

------
devx
Since Microsoft is so "popular" today on HN, have you seen Pogue's hands-on
review of Windows 8.1 yet?

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=u-vDf...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=u-vDf7hTXo0)

~~~
wambotron
How is that a review? I don't follow the Times or Pogue, but this was not
anything I'd expect from a "hands-on review."

------
outside1234
"... plus they gave me a ton of money."

------
nswanberg
Here is an argument for why the hated David Pogue writes about technology the
way he does, and why it resonates:
[http://podcasts.infoworld.com/print/69418](http://podcasts.infoworld.com/print/69418)

I haven't read much from him since I was a kid, when I had a copy of Macworld
Mac & Power Mac Secrets and was stuffing the book's 3.25" floppies into my
Powermac 6100 to use ResEdit, but I especially remember the prose being
engaging even apart from the interesting tricks and hacks the book covered. In
his book computers lived in a world with people, rather than in a universe
unto themselves, so I learned a little extra.

Scanning through a few columns again, the writing is no less clear, and even
though I generally care about how something works rather than how well, no
less correct. And on areas where I have no insider experience or information,
like cell phone billing practices, the writing was suprisingly helpful and
entertaining: [http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/10/10/t-mobile-hands-
con...](http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/10/10/t-mobile-hands-consumers-a-
pleasant-shocker/)

This is a serious move from Yahoo. Given the sort of demographic that reads
the New York Times and buys tech books, Yahoo must have paid Pogue a lot to
have him switch from New York Times columnist David Pogue to Yahoo! columnist
David Pogue. I wonder who will be next.

------
yawgmoth
Yahoo calling itself the "world's biggest startup" seems like a superlative
example of bad faith. It is hard to take companies (or people, for that
matter) seriously, when they openly claim to be something they know they
aren't.

Similarly, Pogue's content is full of inaccuracies, gross over-simplification,
leading conclusions, and ignorance beyond what can be considered excusable. I
suppose he'll be right at home at the "world's biggest startup".

~~~
bedhead
As best I can tell, Mayer believes deeply in reflexivity, which might not
actually be a bad strategy. Probably figures if she repeats claims like this
over and over again, and make a couple acquisitions that kinda-maybe-sorta
insinuate that it's different this time, peoples' opinions on Yahoo will turn
around and with it Yahoo's fortunes. I'm sure deep down she knows she's
peddling bullshit though.

------
smackfu
Once your personal brand gets well known, it's leaving money on the table to
just be an employee at a business in a declining industry like newspapers.

------
daljeetv
At the end of the day one of Yahoo's primary strenghts is being a curator of
information and bringing in Pogue in my opinion will improve this core
competency or atleast make it seem like it does.

------
r00fus
Another marker in the deathbed of traditional print journalism. Add this to
Bezos' purchase of the Washington Post, the departure of Kara Swisher and Walt
Mossberg from the WSJ, and you have indications that tech media is going to
diverge and likely eclipse traditional media, the disruption will be complete.

It used to be that internet media was playing in print media's game, but now
the situation is reversing, and the weaker (either in content or
profitability) outfits will go by the wayside.

This isn't necessarily a good thing, but it will happen.

------
michaelpinto
The key question for me is if it's ethical for a tech company to own a tech
site? And that's what I assume he'd be doing. Can you really trust the
editorial coverage — and tech users are pretty aware of that sort of thing. Or
maybe nobody cares: After all Fox news outlets no doubt give press to Fox
entertainment properties like their films — but it's sort of sad to me.

~~~
3825
You would think everybody with a shred of conscience at cnet would quit after
the DirecTV Hopper debacle but that didn't happen. cnet still exists and
people still work there.

> "CNET is not going to give an award or any other validation to a product
> which CBS is challenging as illegal, other networks believe to be illegal
> and one court has already found to violate the copyright act in its
> application. Beyond that, CNET will cover every other product and service on
> the planet," a CBS spokesperson said.[0]

USA Today questioned CNET's as well as CBS' credibility going forward:

> CBS, once called the Tiffany network, will never be viewed again as
> pristine. The ethical media rule is that corporate business interests should
> never interfere in journalism – or at least not so blatantly, publicly and
> harmfully. It made me wonder if 60 Minutes had ever suffered the same
> treatment.[1]

Why does CBS still exist? Why does CBS get a free pass simply for being the
second largest broadcaster in the world? Why aren't we actively boycotting
everything CBS lays its slimy hands on?

I am sad to conclude that your conclusion is correct. Nobody cares. Once you
are big enough, you know you can get away with certain things.

[0] [http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57566906-93/cea-gives-
dish-...](http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57566906-93/cea-gives-dish-hopper-
with-sling-best-of-show-award/)

[1] [http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/01/30/cbs-cnet-
ce...](http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/01/30/cbs-cnet-ces-hopper-
sling/1877291/)

~~~
michaelpinto
Actually you just sort of encouraged me: Nobody actually takes CNET seriously
anymore and CBS itself is a shadow of what it was once upon a time.

------
aaronchriscohen
"So I was intrigued when Yahoo invited me to help build a new consumer-tech
site."

should read

"So I was intrigued when Yahoo showed me how zeroes can fit on a check.

------
bluedino
>> Yahoo is getting 12,000 résumés a week from would-be employees.

Are there really 12,000 _new_ applicants per week that would even be remotely
qualified? Even if only half of those are technical job applicants, I find
that hard to believe. Resume spam from everyone who's unemployed.

~~~
pulakm
Yes, definitely. Google gets over a million applications per year as of 3
years ago [1]; it's feasible that Yahoo would get half of that now.

[1]

------
tambourine_man
Mossberg leaving the Journal, Pogue leaving the Times.

Tech coverage on traditional media must be a dwindling business.

~~~
mwfunk
Sadly, I think that traditional media itself is a dwindling business, not just
the tech coverage .:(

------
dirwiz
Wonder if he'll be able to work from home?

------
wnevets
Some how he will manage to ruin yahoo

