

Rover Finds New Evidence That Ancient Mars Was Habitable - smaili
http://www.space.com/21483-mars-life-nasa-opportunity-rover.html

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RKoutnik
In the midst of the PRISIM NSA fiasco, it's amazing to see just how awesome we
can be with technology when we put our minds to it. Despite big sister
Curiosity showing off, it's incredible that this came from Opportunity, a
rover we've had on Mars for a decade!

My favorite part:

> _Opportunity is poised to break the international record for distance
> traveled on another world during the drive to Solander Point._

Incredible. Just incredible.

------
johnohara
Our solar system is old and by comparison our species has been here for mere
fractions of a millisecond.

Say what you will, but those machines rolling around Mars, navigating terrain,
taking pictures, analyzing samples, using sunlight to recharge, sending data
to earth via radio, and countless other capabilities, are a celebration of
human intelligence.

------
mnemonicsloth
Related: _Technological Requirements for Terraforming Mars_
([http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~mfogg/zubrin.htm](http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~mfogg/zubrin.htm))

The author, Robert Zubrin, also developed the Mars-mission plan Elon Musk
seems to be following. (Zubrin's book also paints a fascinating picture of
what's wrong with NASA: [http://www.amazon.com/The-Case-Mars-Settle-
Planet/dp/0684835...](http://www.amazon.com/The-Case-Mars-Settle-
Planet/dp/0684835509))

Quotes from the Terraforming paper:

"drastic modification of Martian conditions ... using 21st century
technology."

"Humans... would require breathing gear, but pressure suits would be
unnecessary"

"Average temperatures could be above the freezing point of water for
significant regions during portions of the year, enabling the growth of plant
life in the open."

------
ygmelnikova
Look.. Life on Mars! Oh wait, no.

Look! Life on Mars! Ah, never mind.

Ad infinitum

~~~
InclinedPlane
Science isn't just some magical box that you press a button on and get
definitive answers out of, it's a process. Sometimes it's frustrating to watch
that process narrow in on answers, but that's the nature of discovery. So far
as I know there's only ever been one serious claim for life on Mars (the Alan
Hills Mars meteorite claim from the 90s).

What has been happening recently has been more and more evidence about the
conditions of ancient Mars, especially in relation to the long-term presence
of water. We've known for a long time that Mars has had liquid water on it in
the past, what we haven't known is how much and for how long and under what
conditions. We've known more recently that Mars still contains a substantial
amount of sub-surface water ice over much of its area. And we've learned more
recently that Mars appears to have had sufficient water to form long-lived
lakes and rivers, long enough to allow the formation of both rounded river
rocks and pebbles as well as conglomerate rocks made up of those but also
hydrate minerals that can only form in conditions of near neutral pH and low
salinity.

These are big discoveries, even though from a certain perspective they may
seem like yet another "water on Mars!" story. These discoveries are painting a
picture of ancient Mars that was not just occasionally wet or perhaps a
hellscape Mars covered with brackish or boiling lakes but an almost familiar
Mars with lakes and rivers that would be nearly drinkable for humans and that
lasted millions of years at least. Certainly conditions that lots of Earth-
bound life would find it quite easy to live in. And that provides the
tantalizing hope that perhaps some form of life arose on Mars and survived for
a time and perhaps lives still in some sheltered underground areas. It's not
evidence or proof of life, it's the hint of a possibility. But again, that's
the way science works. You narrow down possibilities and provide hints for
further investigations.

~~~
ygmelnikova
Even if life is found on Mars, the human race has lost it's right to
celebrate.

Every 3.6 seconds some child dies of starvation here on Earth. How many
children can you feed with $400,000,000+?

[http://goo.gl/s46ol](http://goo.gl/s46ol)

~~~
RKoutnik
Bah. Such terrible logic. Truth is, we can do both. You're also mis-quoting
your own source.

[http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20120716.gif](http://www.smbc-
comics.com/comics/20120716.gif)

~~~
ygmelnikova
Explain that to the mothers of the 5,000 children that have died of starvation
in their mother's arms in the last 5 hours since this was posted.

Maybe if you down vote this post enough, the problem will go away?

~~~
guylhem
It's not about the problem going away or not. Saving a life also increases
cost, especially if the life you are saving is non productive (ie require
food)

Fact is, there will always be people dying on earth. It's sad. But why bother?

Sending the human race to another planet, then maybe another galaxy, are long
term projects, and it makes sense to care about that however.

If it only required the sacrifice of 5,000 children, that would be a very
cheap price to pay. It will certainly cost (as in opportunity costs - how the
money could be used in different ways) many more lives.

Yet you know what? It's a great deal. If we lose our only current planet, all
of humanity goes down, including any possible future "children" one may
imagine.

How many people do you expect will have existed in 10,000 years from now
(humanity is much older than that!), given our current population? (let's say
no grow)? Round that to 5 billion per 100 year with an greatly overestimated
lifespan of 100 years to ease our calculations. We have a lowball estimate of
(10,000/100)*5b = 5 000 billion

It would be quite a bargain to sacrifice a total of 5 billion to ensure a
living of the 5 000 billion future humans that will exist... hell, even a 100
billion!!

So yes, children are dying, it's sad, and your use of "saying that to the
mothers" is a call to use sentimentalisms to obscure the facts.

Yet the facts remain : having more than one habitable planet is a necessity to
protect the continuous possibility of a thriving human race, in case of major
disasters (at mass-extinction level).

~~~
ygmelnikova
You obviously have no children.

