
The US Mint lost $69M making pennies last year - prostoalex
https://qz.com/1318203/making-pennies-costs-the-us-mint-millions/
======
swanson
They should sell ads on the back of the penny.

"A Penny Save is a Penny Earned - Chase Bank"

A durable, historical, innovative new channel that also makes minting pennies
profitable. Everyone loved collecting those state quarters they made a few
years back.

Of course, if this is successful we can move upstream to other coins and
eventually dollar bills. Alternatively, we could allow rich people to put
their face on the penny instead of that old president guy on there now.

Just the media exposure alone to be the first company to sponsor the penny
would probably yield a positive ROI.

And think about how jealous the CEO of McDonalds will be when forced to
dispense Burger King branded coins from their automated robot cash registers.

~~~
antcas
This is one of the best terrible ideas I've ever heard.

~~~
los_angeles
In Hong Kong paper money is designed and issued by private banks. Works fine.

~~~
antcas
Are consumer brands advertised on those notes?

Having private banks print money is a lot different than selling ad space to
McDonald's on your dollar bill.

~~~
los_angeles
Yes, the consumer brand (HSBC in this one for example) is printed and
advertised heavily on the money:

[https://www.leftovercurrency.com/wp-
content/uploads/2016/11/...](https://www.leftovercurrency.com/wp-
content/uploads/2016/11/20-hong-kong-dollars-banknote-hsbc-2010-issue-
obverse-1.jpg)

------
mikestew
So get rid of them. At one point in my life, a long time ago, things could be
purchased for a penny. That time has long passed. Now pennies are used just to
make the math work out. Round everything up a nickel ($0.05) and call it a
day.

Or look at it another way: inflation has made the nickel from my youth into
today's penny.

~~~
nostromo
No. Most purchases are not made with cash and fewer people are using cash
every year. You're basically saying that all consumers should pay more with
every purchase so that the mint can make <2% more revenue, a negligible amount
in relation to the federal budget.

[https://www.frbsf.org/cash/files/figure-3-2015dcpc-share-
of-...](https://www.frbsf.org/cash/files/figure-3-2015dcpc-share-of-
transaction-number-by-payment-instrument-final.png)

~~~
will_brown
It’s actually the people who use credit/debit cards to make purchases who
raise the prices on all goods/services for people who pay cash.

The average merchant pays 2.3-3.5% per swipe, as a result prices are increased
across the board and passed on to consumers, no matter if they pay with card
or cash.

~~~
Broken_Hippo
You claim this, but cash has its own costs. Such as running the risk of
getting robbed, wrong change (and the retailer losing out), a safe, the costs
and time included in physically getting the cash to the bank - either by
employees driving it or paying a service to do it. Having enough change on
hand can be an issue.

Now, I don't know if all of this equals out to the same as the credit card
fees, but it isn't like cash is cost-free.

~~~
rland
Cash also has very diffuse benefits. It is anonymous, private, untraceable,
and not able to be stolen or compromised without physical access.

~~~
ummonk
And the police will confiscate it for their own use if they find you with a
lot of it.

------
Finnucane
The point of the mint is making money, not making money.

~~~
refurb
Yeah, the headline seems dumb. If the mint creates a $100 bill for $1.50, did
they make $98.50? No.

The purpose of the mint is to maintain the US currency. It's a cost center,
not a profit center.

~~~
thebooglebooski
"Making" and "creating" are pretty ambiguous here.

The mint literally creates physical money (coins). But in the end, the
government actually does generate revenue, that gets calculated into a profit
or loss for the country:

[https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/seigniorage.asp](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/seigniorage.asp)

$100 bills DO generate profit. Pennies generate a loss. If you look at all of
the currency in aggregate, it generates positive revenue for the country.

~~~
andyzweb
$100 bills generate close to 0 profit for the United States Treasury as they
are sold to the Federal Reserve Banks at manufacturing cost.

However coins are sold by the United States Treasury to the Federal Reserve
Banks at face value and can generate a profit/loss based on the difference
between the face value and the cost of manufacturing.

------
ortusdux
When the half penny was decommissioned in 1857 it was worth the equivalent of
10-15 cents in today's dollars. It was decommissioned because inflation had
made it nearly useless and the metal was worth more than the coin.

~~~
snarf21
We should get rid of everything below the quarter. All we need are some rules
for rounding up (or down). Then we could also drop the $1 dollar bill for a
coin. A lot less confusion with only two main coins in circulation.

~~~
iv597
We've had $1 coins for a hot minute. You can almost only ever find them at the
bank, post offices, and some other government places (the Sound Transit ticket
kiosks here in Seattle spit them out, I found out last week), but they exist.

We also have/had a 50c coin, but it's huge and I believe out of circulation
these days.

~~~
watersb
The genius it took to design a $1 that was basically indistinguishable from a
quarter...

------
parliament32
Here in Canada we got rid of the penny some years ago. If you're paying with
cash, the total just gets rounded at the register. Honestly I don't miss it.

~~~
a_r_8
I wish they would take it further. Dimes are the new pennies.

~~~
giarc
What about the nickel?

~~~
Reedx
Goodbye nickels and dimes too I'd say. Might as well just do it all at once
and simplify things for a good long time.

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minikites
We still have the penny because Jardin Zinc Products (the manufacturer of
penny blanks) lobbies the government and pays for astroturf campaigns to keep
the penny.

[http://www.post-
gazette.com/business/businessnews/2007/08/15...](http://www.post-
gazette.com/business/businessnews/2007/08/15/Jarden-Zinc-Products-lobbies-
Congress-to-keep-the-1-cent-coin-from-going-extinct/stories/200708150320)

[https://www.publicintegrity.org/2014/07/02/14959/saving-
penn...](https://www.publicintegrity.org/2014/07/02/14959/saving-penny-makes-
cents-zinc-backed-front-group)

~~~
danieltillett
"Never attribute to stupidity what can be explained by corruption."

------
boromi
I think Canada has got rid of pennies; US should also follow that lead,
hopefully.

~~~
Spooks
Canada did! The last Canadian penny was minted in May 2012, and ceased the
distribution of them as of February 4, 2013.

No real issues either (it still remains legal tender). Non-cash transactions
are still denominated to the cent, the rest is rounded.

On the positive side the mint has more coin in their bank now!

------
iamcasen
Am I the only one who views pennies like an extreme annoyance? I would rather
throw pennies in the trash than have them. They are literally THAT worthless.
They take up far more space and weight than they offer in value. It seems like
such a massive waste to continue using valuable metals to create something so
worthless.

Honestly, I think quarters should be the only coin we have.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
I've moved beyond that. I discard all change, ruthlessly. If there's somebody
nearby who wants them, I give them the whole handful of change. Otherwise it
all goes in the trash on the way out of the store.

Used to wear holes in my pants pockets, get stuck in dryer etc. Cost more than
it was worth, in wear and tear, and in emotional energy to manage it.

You can't imagine the freedom you feel when you discard your first handful of
change! Just toss it and walk away!

~~~
ggg9990
Jeez, at least throw it on the street to make someone’s day. Why the trash?

~~~
dharmab
You'd be fined for littering.

~~~
ggg9990
Are you from Singapore? You would not get fined in the US, unless you were
poor and/or black.

------
momentmaker
I read somewhere that there is a lobby group that's preventing the government
to remove pennies from circulation. I think they're related to copper/zinc
which explains why.

~~~
danieltillett
There is always a reason why something that is obviously dumb is done and it
always involves corruption. There is almost zero copper in the modern penny so
let's point the finger at the zinc industry.

------
rrauenza
Related:

 _US nickels cost seven cents to make. Scientists may have a solution_

[https://qz.com/1316940/us-nickels-cost-seven-cents-to-
make-s...](https://qz.com/1316940/us-nickels-cost-seven-cents-to-make-
scientists-may-have-a-solution/)

~~~
eli
Quartz is really owning this genre of badly misunderstanding what the mint
does. The cost of manufacturing coins is an expense that has no bearing on the
denominated value of the coin.

~~~
minikites
The point of currency is to facilitate commerce and pennies don't do that. You
can't use them in parking meters or vending machines (for example) so we're
spending tax dollars to create objects with no function.

~~~
paulddraper
Those are valid points.

As the parent said, the manufacturing cost is orthogonal.

------
cornellwright
Personally, I'd like to get rid of all coins, and introduce a $0.25 note and
call it a day. Round all cash payments up to the next quarter and no more
metal money.

Egypt has a 0.25 Egyptian Pound note. The last time I was there it was only
worth about US$0.06.

~~~
JaceLightning
This. Though there is already a $0 .25 coin... Called a quarter.

~~~
BenjiWiebe
Read again. He wants a $.25 paper bill, and then get rid of all coins.

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AceyMan
I've joked to my pals that if the POTUS (a) eliminated the penny and (b) moved
gov't to A-series(ISO 216) paper sizes (biz would then follow) at least then I
could feel this presidency is a net (aggregate) neutral from a utility PoV.

A nickel is fine-grained enough for current goods pricing.

While we're at it, let's get rid of the dime, too. They are too small to fish
for in pockets and purses. In fact, one famous US retailer has a policy of not
stocking dimes in their cash room because the founder believed "dimes lose
money."

------
AngryData
While I can agree pennies are pretty useless, you don't print money to with
the purpose of making money unless you are trying to fuck over your own
economy. How many times does the currency get spent? Printing money in pursuit
of profit is how you end up with billion dollar zimbabwe notes.

------
oldcynic
UK got rid of farthings and halfpennies when they exceeded face value, and the
£1 note decades ago.

Pennies and 2p became copper plated steel for the same reason. Pre 92 bronze
ones are worth about double.

Coppers can't be worth keeping around much longer. I doubt even penny sweets
still exist.

------
jcampbell1
I throw all pennies and nickels away or leave them with the cashier. I don't
pay with cash all that often so it adds up to a few dollars a year.

One wonders how much retailers spend paying people to fetch pennies and
nickels as change, or waiting for people to dig out the right number from
their pocket or purse. I am sure it is an order of magnitude larger than $69
million.

Obama's only objection to removing the penny was Abe Lincoln. Let's put him on
the dime, and Roosevelt on the $20, and Jefferson on the $50, and Grant on the
$2. Andrew Jackson's descendants may have tears, a trail of tears.

~~~
XalvinX
Dude, I'll take free money all day long. Pennies and nickels spend just like
anything else.

At least you could give them to a homeless person or some children to buy some
candy with or something.

You don't understand something very basic about life.

Waste not, want not.

Someday you may remember your actions if you ever end up broke and homeless.

------
linkmotif
The value of pennies to the economy must be much greater than $69M right? My
reasoning is: if you get rid of them, who’ll get short changed? The consumer.
And by how much throughout the entire cash economy? A lot.

~~~
telchar
I think the value of pennies to the economy is negative.

Every time I have to handle a penny it wastes my time and energy for no gain.
I never find having a penny useful unless it will prevent me from getting more
pennies. Multiply that by everyone in the country and that is quite a waste of
time (i.e. money). There would be almost no loss of economic efficiency if we
get rid of pennies but a nice savings in real time and energy, to say nothing
of the waste that mining, refining, stamping and distributing them costs.

~~~
InternetUser
Why don't you just do what I do: when you buy something in-person with cash
and there's change, count the paper money and then just hastily count out the
change, knowingly giving more then the exact cent amount, and say "Keep the
change, and no need for the receipt." Precious seconds can be saved every
time. Also, if I'm in line behind someone who is taking too long with anything
up to 2 dollars, I just say "I'll pay it" or I even quickly hand the cashier
the money.

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downrightmike
And the Zinc mining stocks are uptoday: Teck Resources (NYSE:TECK), Hecla
Mining (NYSE:HL), and Hudbay Minerals (NYSE:HBM).

------
Ensorceled
Canada got rid of the penny 5 years ago and the paper $1 in the 80s. We also
switched to metric in the 70s.

We’re not that dissimilar from the US but they seem to have an inability to
make these kinds of systemic changes.

~~~
refurb
Walking around with 2 lbs of loonies and toonies in your pocket sucks to be
honest.

That said, I probably use cash a handful of times each year.

Getting rid of the penny was smart though.

~~~
wolco
I think we rushed away the penny too quickly. Glad they stopped at 2 dollars
the 50 dollar coin just doesn't seem right.

~~~
athenot
FWIW, the Euro is coins from €0.01 to €2, then paper from €5 to €500. I find
dollar bills even more annoying than pennies.

~~~
mattnewton
Dollar bills take up almost no space, and are easier to handle than coins.
Aside from durability, why would you switch?

~~~
greenshackle2
I find it easier to manage a jar of coins on my nightstand, than a wad of cash
with a bunch of half-crumpled 1-dollar bills. It's not like I need to carry a
bunch of small denomination currency anyway.

The 1 and 2 dollar coins are larger and are made of different materials so
it's not hard to pick them out of the jar if I want to use to pay for coffee
or something.

~~~
philwelch
But instead of keeping your cash in a wadded-up crumple, you can neatly stack
them and slip them into a wallet, or neatly stack them and fold them in half
and put them in a money clip. Coins are a lot harder to compress.

------
protomyth
How about we forget the insane idea we need to divide the dollar into 100
parts and back it off to 10 making the dime the new penny and getting rid of
the whole 1 and 5 cent steps.

So, it gets rid of of the penny, nickel, and quarter. We could save a lot of
money just by converting the 1 and 5 bills to coins.

~~~
XalvinX
There have been dollar coins in America forever and still are. The general
public refuses to use them, or just collects them and they never circulate.

~~~
protomyth
Yes, but the US has never removed the paper money.

~~~
XalvinX
I don't understand what you mean. They removed the paper money the explicit
said "this is good for one silver dollar and can be exchanged at the US Mint
at any time" (those were called "Silver Certificates" and look a lot like the
dollar bills around nowadays, without the promise. Now it says "backed by the
faith and credit of the US government" (or similar) ....so "backed by a bunch
of hot air" basically.

HUGE DIFFERENCE.

~~~
protomyth
They did not remove the $1 bill when the redid the $1 coin.

------
djhworld
I think we have a similar problem here in the UK with 1 & 2 pence coins
costing more than what they are worth.

It's not entirely clear though as The Royal Mint doesn't reveal their
production costs, but it really wouldn't surprise me if making the 1/2p coins
run at a loss

------
murukesh_s
Wondering if someone is collecting them and extracting the metals out and
selling for a profit?

~~~
chuckkir
There are people storing up closets full of the old full-copper pennies
waiting for the day that the penny is discontinued and they can get scrap
value that is higher than the face value. For now they aren't allowed to
deface money so they're just storing them. I don't even know if it's worth the
time spent sorting, but everyone needs a hobby.

~~~
anoncoward111
Additionally, they're a real pain to melt down profitably, even if it were
legal. It only makes sense at very large scale, which means only the companies
that invest in big foundries will be making real money if it ever becomes
legal to use copper pennies for copper.

A good analogy would be like collecting aluminum cans XD

------
sunshinelackof
Surely the value of a penny to The US government is more than just the
monetary value displayed on the face of the coin. The ability to store 0.01
USD has to be worth more than 0.01 USD or at least (production cost) - 0.01
USD.

------
flarpmarker
Really should just remove the whole second decimal. Get rid of pennies nickels
and quarters. Only need dimes and half dollars.

No rounding, we just limit ourselves to tenths of a dollar.

~~~
lintroller
I like the idea of a system that would allow only 2 coins - .5 and .1 - to
function properly. However it could potentially mean removing the quarter from
circulation completely, unless the holder is willing to sacrifice 20% of its
value or has two of them.

------
LordAtlas
When I visit America, pennis are the most useless thing to carry out. All they
do is add tons of weight and bulk in change without providing any utility.

~~~
InternetUser
> tons of weight and bulk

What is your height and weight?

------
elvirs
I fucking hate pennies. Make it a federal law that all prices should be
rounded down to 5 pennies and make smallest coin a nickel.

------
izzydata
I haven't used physical money in a decade, but they should definitely stop
making pennies and nickles at minimum.

------
paulddraper
> Between production costs and shipping, they cost $0.0182 each, which totaled
> to $69 million (pdf, p. 9) in losses compared to their total value

Say what you want to about a various coins, but this is just stupid.

Does QZ think a coin is used just once? Coins average three decades of use.
Reporting minting as if it has some sort of net loss or profit is idiotic.

(By that logic, how much revenue did the US Mint have last year from $20
bills?)

------
ravenstine
I'll be sad they day they get rid of pennies. They are a great source of zinc
for metal casting. :)

------
JaceLightning
Time to get rid of a decimal point! Do we really care about pennies, nickels,
and dimes?

------
XalvinX
BFD. Imagine the profits on quarters though...nevermind hundred dollar bills.

------
landcoctos
Not even a rounding error.

------
myrandomcomment
$69M for the US budget is a rounding error.

------
jacobsenscott
As long as there's some old fossil in the senate with fond memories of buying
a salt water taffy for a penny, the penny will be with us.

