
Why I Don’t Do CrossFit - r0h1n
http://erinsimmonsfitness.me/2014/04/17/why-i-dont-do-crossfit/
======
Jabbles
Another article on CrossFit, written by Mark Rippetoe, a famous and
influential strength coach, is here:

[http://www.t-nation.com/training/crossfit-the-good-bad-
and-t...](http://www.t-nation.com/training/crossfit-the-good-bad-and-the-ugly)

He makes many of the same points, but I find the arguments more persuasive.
It's also interesting to note the arguments in favour of CrossFit.

Finally, Mark seems to have completely different opinions about deadlifting;
he regards them as a staple to strength training, whereas the OP "doesn't do"
them for unknown reasons. I find the disagreement among professionals to be
intriguing.

~~~
mmondok
I was a college athlete in a large program where we used Olympic lifting
extensively. It's true that form was emphasized over weight and repetition,
and I gained quite a bit of muscle mass from that. Forward about 8 years later
and I continued doing those lifts: deadlifts, cleans, etc. I always focused
strictly on my form, but I also challenged myself and kept adding weight as
long as I could lift it properly. Well, about two years ago I was in the gym
deadlifting a significant amount of weight. I was going for one rep. As I was
slightly above my ankles, I felt my form slip very slightly and my lower back
just collapsed. I spent the better part of the next year rehabbing and doing
physical therapy to help repair a buldging disc. It still hurts me to this day
and to counteract it I have to keep my core (abs) very strong. That being
said, I do cardio every day and am in the gym doing bodyweight/light HIIT six
days per week.

My takeaway from all this is that certain exercises, even if you know what
you're doing, may not be worth it. I was training simply to be fit - that was
my goal. Deadlifts will absolutely make you stronger, but they are also
incredibly dangerous if your form deviates even slightly from where it should
be. Today I'm happy and seeing great results with bodyweight exercises, light
weights, and a proper diet. Honestly, I feel better than I ever have besides
aches in my lower back.

~~~
AhtiK
Out of curiosity, what do you consider a proper diet, what has been working
best for you?

~~~
mmondok
Admittedly "proper diet" is subjective, but what I've been focusing on is high
protein, non-processed foods. For example, in the morning I'll either do a few
eggs or a smoothie with fruits, vegetable protein, almond milk, hemp, chia
seeds, and super yogurt. For lunch, I usually do yogurt with granola or
chicken/tuna. For dinner, I just go with whatever my wife cooks. She's always
focused on cooking well-balanced meals and loves to cook with fresh
vegetables. One reason I think this whole thing works for me is that I'm not
trying to diet -- I'm simply focusing on eating healthier foods. My biggest
issue is night eating. Like many developers, I tend to work late into the
night and as I get sleepy, I get hungry. The night eating got so bad with me
that even if I somehow got to bed early, I'd wake up in the middle of the
night starving since that's what my body learned to expect. It's been hard,
but the way I've been combatting that is by eating all my meals during the
day, trading in the computer for a book at night, and trying to get to sleep
at a reasonable hour (11ish). I still have issues putting work down, but the
combination of feeling physically better because I'm not eating chips at 2AM
and rediscovering my love for reading has been wonderful.

------
king_magic
I'm not going to refute the author, merely, here is my experience: I've done
CF for 2+ years, and frankly, I've gotten a lot out of it. I like/trust my
coaches, I like the community, and I like the challenge. I never thought I'd
be capable of what I can do these days, and so for me, it's a success story.

I go twice a week, and have been doing so (roughly) for the past two years,
except for a period of a few months where I had a hernia repaired. The origins
of the hernia were 5-6 years old, and it never was very painful or caused much
in the way of problems, and I actually think that a year of CF actually helped
reduce the severity of it (and my surgeon agrees).

Thess days, I take things much easier, but am still making progress against my
personal goals.

So at the end of the day, does the author have valid points? Sure. But I
think, like pretty much everything people are passionately for or against on
the internet, the truth is in a gray area. It's not as black and white as I
think the author is making it out to be.

CrossFit has helped a lot of people, myself included. CrossFit hasn't helped
some people who have tried it.

You could replace "CrossFit" with "college" (or a lot of other things in
life), and I think you'd find that again, the truth is really in a gray area,
somewhere in between the opposing factions.

~~~
Pacabel
I don't get the moderation here at HN these days. Currently, the comment I'm
replying to has been voted down, and I can't for the life of me figure out
why.

The content seems very reasonable, informative and detailed to me, even if it
may partially contradict the submission's article. It gave me a different
perspective on the issue, which I find useful. I see absolutely no reason why
it should be greyed out.

I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up getting voted up soon enough, too. It's
just disappointing to see so many totally legitimate and valid comments ending
up in this state these days.

~~~
ScottWhigham
I would assume it's because of this line:

 _You could replace "CrossFit" with "college" (or a lot of other things in
life)_

That's just an absurd statement. It implies that the problem is you - your
over-training, or your inability to do the right things. But in CrossFit or in
college, you are following a prescribed path someone else laid out. The author
points out how the cult of CrossFit promotes blind following WOD/et al. So no
- you can't replace CrossFit with college in this case and suggesting so
implies that he/she did not truly read the article.

~~~
king_magic
_" You could replace "CrossFit" with "college" (or a lot of other things in
life), and I think you'd find that again, the truth is really in a gray area,
somewhere in between the opposing factions."_

That is the _entire_ sentence I wrote. Please, don't cherry pick (on the topic
of not truly reading things). I'm making a statement about the nature of
controversial things, where there are conflicting viewpoints. Often times both
sides have valid points, despite being wildly opposed to each other.

Replace "college" in my statement with "politics". Or "medical studies". Or
"emacs vs. vi". Same thing - the truth it somewhere in the middle.

------
mitchellh
Disclaimer: I've done crossfit for over 2 years at this point.

This is actually one of the best written anti-crossfit posts I've come across.
Most are anecdotal "I went to one gym that didn't focus on form so all gyms
must be bad" posts, which are tiring. This post goes over some great details
which as a crossfitter I would say are true.

That being said, after doing CrossFit for 2 years I have a few tidbits of
advice:

    
    
      * Find a gym that focuses on form over workout. They exist, and crossfit is popular enough at this point that you should be able to find it.
    
      * If you don't plan on being SUPER into CrossFit, ask for substitute workouts for the gymnastic moves: handstand pushups, most things with rings, parallel bars, etc. It just isn't worth the time learning how to do these, and you can hurt yourself. Just do something simple, they always have substitutes.
    
      * I personally, like the author of this post, don't do deadlifts and rarely do kettlebell swings. I am not a professional athlete or trainer, but I really primarily only heard of people getting hurt with these workouts, so I chose to avoid them. Sounds like this was a good decision. There are substitute workouts for each.
    

My goal with CrossFit isn't to be ripped and exploded. My goal with CrossFit
is to remain in good physical health based on the fact that I sit (or remain
still standing) for 10+ hours per day. To that end, its been a HUGE success.
The team environment of CrossFit is a great motivator both to workout hard but
also to show up (social pressures). The diversified workouts of crossfit keep
my strength up pretty high.

All this being said, listen to the linked post of this entry. It has really
good info.

~~~
yulaow
Kettlebell swings are generally bad but Deadlifts are considered fundamentals
also in the BB area.

Explosive Deadlifts are bad, that's for sure specially with high weights, but
well slow executed deadlifts are one of the best exercise to strengthen all
your body and improve his hormonal response. That's why in a good gym the
trainers focus very very very hard on teaching the correct execution ROM
before allow you to even start to increase the weights.

~~~
Huggernaut
I'm not really clear on the authors stance on Kettlebell swings or Deadlifts
and a cursory search of her blog didn't provide me with a link to either of
the articles she mentioned. Why do you think they are "generally bad"?

The author mentions regarding swings, "I don’t do those either because it is
not a beneficial movement for the body and typically puts the back in bad
positions". I'm not sure what angle she's coming from here (aesthetics?) but
explosive hip extension is extremely important for many sports involving
sprinting and jumping and kettlebell swings are a nice exercise that's easier
to learn than varieties of clean. Like any other lift it has its own risks but
there is no reason that with good form one can't perform swings without
risking the back any more than other exercises.

Her comment about deadlifts is pretty questionable and I wonder what the
author is replacing them with for hip dominant movements. I wonder if in this
instance she is specifically talking about heavy barbell deadlifts where the
back is often the limiting factor rather than the deadlift movement (single
leg, staggered, etc) as a whole. The excerpt, "I had never done and to this
day I still don’t do them" is pretty suspicious given that the knowledge she
would need to have to make an informed decision about whether deadlifts are
worthwhile is unlikely to be something she would have had when she started
lifting. Seems the author has a predisposition to worrying about her back.

------
jff
Here's a crossfitter who severed his spine with a poorly-done lift, be warned
it's a bit disturbing:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qc3kDCB7bA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qc3kDCB7bA)

Crossfit! [http://i.imgur.com/AoClAei.gif](http://i.imgur.com/AoClAei.gif)

Crossfit! [http://i.imgur.com/uLWrijU.gif](http://i.imgur.com/uLWrijU.gif)

Crossfit! [http://i.imgur.com/s4GWEmj.gif](http://i.imgur.com/s4GWEmj.gif) And
again! [http://i.imgur.com/7gCoxY7.gif](http://i.imgur.com/7gCoxY7.gif) and
again! [http://i.imgur.com/uOXc113.gif](http://i.imgur.com/uOXc113.gif)

Crossfit!
[http://i.minus.com/iZUsT11hiMbCz.gif](http://i.minus.com/iZUsT11hiMbCz.gif)

Crossfit! [http://i.imgur.com/MPSXRUT.gif](http://i.imgur.com/MPSXRUT.gif)

Crossfitttttt!
[http://i.imgur.com/Y2yrqPS.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/Y2yrqPS.jpg)

Crossfit!
[http://gifsoup.com/view3/4092663/crossssifttt-o.gif](http://gifsoup.com/view3/4092663/crossssifttt-o.gif)

Crossfit! [http://i.imgur.com/gs28aPU.gif](http://i.imgur.com/gs28aPU.gif)

Crossfit! [http://i.imgur.com/0iQG9fx.gif](http://i.imgur.com/0iQG9fx.gif)

A lot of what you see in there is either officially encouraged ("kipping" =
basically cheating at pullups/lifts/whatever for more reps with shit form) or
arises from a total lack of proper training on anyone's part (the guy who just
powers up the weight with his arms and back rather than using his legs)

Remember, Crossfit: not even once.

~~~
kareemm
I used to sell SaaS software to CF gyms and have been to hundreds of gyms.
I've _never_ seen anything like any of these at a CrossFit gym _ever_.

Do your homework before forming an opinion - don't take 10 edge-case GIFs on
the Internet as the primary basis of your opinion. Been CrossFitting since 08,
and, like anything, there's both good and bad things about it.

These don't add anything productive to the conversation, and basing your
opinion on these is like basing your opinion of a religion -- or followers of
that religion -- on the actions of a handful of fanatics.

~~~
chronic27
The frequency of these fanatic events does tell you something about the
subject as you can compare them to the frequency of events of other subjects
(workouts). Being able to easily to find 10 edge case gifs tells you a lot
about crossfit - and none of this is positive.

~~~
kareemm
These are gifs of people doing dangerous things in a gym. Some are likely
Crossfitters, some likely aren't.

My point is don't believe everything you see on the internet. Take some
responsibility and do your own homework.

~~~
jff
Something like 50% of them have Crossfit signs on the wall behind them.

So, kip much?

------
natejenkins
_For the most part, I think people want a workout to follow, they want to be
part of a gym, and they want fellow sufferers and coaches to motivate them._

I don't think the motivation for people doing CrossFit is worded correctly.
People want to do CrossFit because it's fun. For most people, going to a
normal gym is boring. I tried gyms on and off for years but could never stick
to going more than 4-6 weeks at a time before losing interest. While I don't
do CrossFit, I do another sport that replaces lifting, climbing in my case. I
get most of the benefits of going to a gym plus it is insanely fun and I've
met countless friends through it.

There is a huge market out there for fun replacements for the gym. I'm
guesstimating that 75% of the people in a regular gym are not having a good
time and would swap their current workout routine with something enjoyable and
social. There simply aren't many choices. I can think of climbing, CrossFit,
the up-and-coming parkours gyms (looks awesome:
[http://www.apexmovement.com/](http://www.apexmovement.com/)), probably boxing
(although surprisingly getting punched in the face sucks), what else? In
principle yoga could be on this list but in practice the yoga centers I've
been to feel a bit uptight and certainly aren't social. Team sports are great
fun but all I can think of are cardiovascular and don't give you any muscle
building exercises.

~~~
davidtanner
BJJ is a good cardio/strength fun activity that doesn't feel boring and is
social.

Contact, and especially grappling type sports do tend to make people stronger
since they involve a lot of grabbing, twisting, lifting, etc. of another
person's body as they resist.

BJJ can be done in a playful and relaxed way or very competitive and grinding.
One can do it a small space on cheap mats with friends or at a formal school
or competition.

It's full of possibilities and things to learn so it doesn't get boring.

~~~
natejenkins
Ah yes, I forgot about grappling sports. BJJ does look like great fun as long
as you are not required to get the cauliflower ears. I once had a friend
"demo" it to me by challenging me to punch or kick him. By the end of the demo
I was done punching or kicking for quite some time.

------
krick
From the medical point of view what author says is true. Actually, it's not
something new, there are many complaints about crossfit from knowledgeable
people. Especially often I see powerlifters ranting about crossfit being
harmful.

But here's the problem. As you know HN isn't sports resource, yet article
about CF is on top. Why? …You see what I mean? It's extremely popular amongst
people that don't want to be powerlifters or swimmers or sprinters, that don't
really care about competing at all, they just want to have some exercising
program to follow and stay fit. Which is totally fair. For which crossfit is
better than nothing (at least until you injure your ankle while doing box-
jumps). And I completely understand those who doesn't follow advices like
"don't do crossfit, do powerlifting" as powerlifting competitions cannot be
the goal for them.

What I'm saying is when there is counter-advice there should be advice as
well. Now, Erin isn't a powerlifter and sure she provides something like
"fitness training plan", but while the idea of crossfit training is clear
(maximizing intensity whatever exercises you do) neither she nor others
provide enough material for self-education to be able to do some "not-harmful
crossfit". And people essentially want "not-harmful crossfit", not training
for judo or sprinting or powerlifting… unless they _do_ judo or sprinting or
powerlifting of course.

So, __tl;dr __: crossfit is harmful — nothing new here. "Train like an
athlete, but train safely." — not informative/constructive enough.

~~~
twic
> As you know HN isn't sports resource, yet article about CF is on top. Why?
> …You see what I mean? It's extremely popular amongst people that don't want
> to be powerlifters or swimmers or sprinters, that don't really care about
> competing at all, they just want to have some exercising program to follow
> and stay fit.

They want to build strength and fitness, but don't want to put in the time
that usually takes, so they want a shortcut, so they're ready to believe when
someone sells them one. CrossFit is fitness hacking!

------
rrosen326
I'm an ex-crossfitter and thought this and the Rippetoe article mentioned were
excellent. They have the ring of truth. I loved Crossfit, miss it, and yet
probably won't go back.

It wasn't the suffering - that was a positive. It wasn't the injuries - I had
chronic shoulder pain that ultimately led to a torn bicep tendon during a set
of high-rep cleans for time (of course). The problem was one that Rippetoe
mentioned - I just wasn't improving. I suffered extravagantly. Most days I was
prostrate on the floor. Many days took me hours till I wasn't nauseous. But I
just wasn't getting better. I actually switched to Rippetoe's Starting
Strength program and now Wenders 531 and have made steady progress (on
strength, at least).

So Crossfit was super fun, but didn't work for me. But the weird thing is that
there were many INCREDIBLE athletes in my gym. They were SUPER fit. And they
got that way doing Crossfit. So somehow this random variation of high-effort
work does work for some people.

Another challenge is what to do if you want to improve but not do Crossfit?
There are 3-5 CF gyms within 15 minutes of my house. There are a couple of
lame normal gyms. My old CF gym had world-class knowledgeable instructors. I
have not been able to find a replacement. And while learning from a book like
Starting Strength is ok at the beginning, eventually you need expert help. CF
is easy to find. World class strength coaches for the recreational athlete are
not.

------
omegaham
I deal with CrossFit a lot, as a lot of my coworkers do it and my unit's PT
seems to be going in that direction.

1\. As said by other posters, CrossFit is _huge_. And it's not like McDonald's
- there's a large amount of variation that's inherent in an organization that
barely looks at its members. Instructors are free to come up with whatever
program they want.

2\. Most personal trainers know absolutely nothing about actually training
people. They know what works for them, but they have a very hard time in
applying workouts to other people. The workout plan that fits a 220-pound male
rugby player is not going to fit a 110-pound female volleyball player or a
350-pound couch potato who is trying to get into shape. Applying the same
program to these three people is going to lead to disaster.

3\. Crossfit is _different_ from traditional weightlifting, which seems to
attract a certain class of people. These people basically say, "I made this
switch, and it's done wonders for me! The old paradigm is flawed, and you're
an idiot for sticking with it!" You'll notice this incredibly annoying group
of people whenever there's an alternative - religion, programming languages /
frameworks, etc.

4\. Apply #1, #2, and #3, - a very large organization with idiots who loosely
fall under it, and a group of people who look down on anyone who isn't a
member, and you get a group of people who are really, really easy to hate.
And, to some extent, it's completely true. You get the stereotype of the
typical CrossFit user who won't shut the fuck up, makes fun of people who go
to "regular" gyms, and doesn't actually know what he's talking about. It leads
to the jokes of "The first rule of CrossFit is to talk about CrossFit" and "A
CrossFit workout isn't complete until you post it on Facebook."

My own experience with CrossFit is that some parts are perfectly fine; there's
absolutely nothing wrong with circuit courses, and there's nothing wrong with
explosive movement. The problem is when you start doing exercises that require
lots of weight and proper form and then CrossFit them - doing as many reps as
possible as quickly as you can. Push-ups? Go for it. Burpees? Be careful, but
go for it. Snatch, deadlifts, and pull-ups[1]? No, and run far far away before
you tear your rotator cuff.

The last thing is that CrossFit doesn't seem to have a goal in mind. As Mark
Rippetoe states, " _Exercise_ is physical activity for its own sake, a workout
done for the effect it produces today, during the workout or right after
you're through. _Training_ is physical activity done with a longer-term goal
in mind, the constituent workouts of which are specifically designed to
produce that goal."[2]

This is supremely important. Even someone whose goal is as simple as "Lose
weight" and "Look more muscular" needs a _training_ goal, not an _exercise_
goal. CrossFit doesn't seem to deliver that. They talk about their goal being
all-around fitness, but they don't have a good methodology for doing so. Take
a look at what decathletes, strongmen, and even the CrossFit Games athletes
are doing - it certainly isn't CrossFit. That, in and of itself, should let
you know that something is badly wrong.

[1][http://cdn.styleforum.net/3/37/314x314px-
LL-375a6e39_TooBO.g...](http://cdn.styleforum.net/3/37/314x314px-
LL-375a6e39_TooBO.gif)

[2][http://www.t-nation.com/training/crossfit-the-good-bad-
and-t...](http://www.t-nation.com/training/crossfit-the-good-bad-and-the-ugly)

~~~
bane
> a lot of my coworkers do it and my unit's PT seems to be going in that
> direction

You probably remember when P90x was infiltrating various units like a virus
also.

~~~
jasallen
Hey, why the p90x hate? P90x is not the most hypertrophy inducing workout in
the world by a long shot, but for fat loss, some muscle increases, vaso-
dialation which will help when you go heavy again, and flexibility, it's one
of my favorite "all around" programs.

~~~
omegaham
P90X is a perfectly fine workout. His gripe was the boot lieutenant dipshit
who sees it on TV, gets the DVD, and decides that he's going to
"revolutionize" the unit's PT program. Add in a bunch of moto-jargon and self-
righteousness, and you get hilarity.

~~~
alaskamiller
Yut

~~~
omegaham
"Well see here, lance corporal, I know that you're in great shape and have 40+
points on my PFT score, but this Crossfit workout is gonna take you to the
next level. Plus, I went to college. I know what I'm doing."

That being said, I've also worked with a lieutenant who could do a 14-minute
3-mile. Dude probably couldn't do 135 on the bench press, but he could
definitely run.

~~~
jasallen
Never got better than 19 minutes when I was in the corps, but at 37 I can
still do a 25 minute 3-mile, so I call that a win.

------
peteretep
Why I don't do CrossFit: I got tired of getting injured.

~~~
newaccountfool
What type of injuries? Maybe you need to warm up more, lower the weight and
concentrate on the form more than the strength. Crossfit is hard because it
incorporates Snatch and Clean and Jerk, to get good at those requires 3+ years

~~~
peteretep
Crossfit is not hard because it incorporates a few Olympic lifts; it's because
it asks you to do 50 clean and jerks _as quickly as you can_.

~~~
newaccountfool
Your getting injured because of the form them, not because of fatigue. If you
keep training the fatigue will go away if its an injury due to bad form then
that's harder to solve.

Basically man up and push through the pain, or stop and quit no other way
about it your not going to get fitter otherwise.

~~~
allengeorge
As fatigue increases your form will break down. There's no way around that.
Any routine that over-emphasizes reps without also stressing consciousness of
your form will inevitably lead to injures.

------
barsonme
CF is so easy to hate on, and for good reason. My only issue is that the idea
behind CF (work till failure, repetition, and so on) isn't bad in and of
itself. Doing 50 cleans isn't bad, per se, it's how you do it that makes it
bad. And CF tends to be run by people who propagate bad form, too much weight,
and that leads to people getting hurt.

I think it brings both good and bad things to the table, and gets loads of
hate because the bad is really bad.

I still won't do CF though. And it does tend to be much like a cult, as ZenPro
said. That's weird as well.

------
theboss
cross fit is really an infiritating thing. The people who do it are sometimes
diehard fans with absolutely no knowledge of how to build strength or an
"elite athlete". A lot of people just like the brand...

But the diehard fans aren't the worst part. Cross fit the organization loves
to shut people down who speak poorly of them. They also have made a lot of
unsubstantiated claims about the type of results that can be expected by
following cross fit programming (which is laughably bad). Its also thought
that they run the cross fit games unfairly since there is a conflict of
interest in sponsoring their top athletes and putting on the cross fit games
where their sponsored athletes and no sponsored compete.

The worst part is the bad programming and the dangers of having a coach who is
instructing you to do things that are obviously bad ideas. Extremely high rep
oly lifting is a reciepe for disaster since the lifts are very skill based.

With all that said. One thing about cross fit is really good. They have got
people training with barbells and started a lot of people down a path where
they can start getting information they need to train better and smarter. But
I'll be saving my 100 a month..

~~~
rm445
As an outsider, a LOT of the backlash against crossfit seems to be snootiness
from traditional weightlifters who seem confused that crossfit is not trying
to be powerlifting or bodybuilding, although many of the same exercises are
used. Crossfit looks to be a kind of sports conditioning training, and as such
of course it's going to involve higher intensity, shorter rests and higher
reps.

Now I don't know how possible it is to design a safe weights workout in those
circumstances. There are almost certainly exercises that shouldn't be done
quickly, or shouldn't be done tired, or shouldn't be done without perfect
form. And almost certainly people are doing those exercises in crossfit gyms
quickly, or when tired, or without perfect form, and increasing their risk of
injury as a result.

But in a perfect world those people would __still be training that way__,
albeit with better instructors and choice of exercises. Because it suits them
to train for their sports or general fitness. They're not going to all change
their minds one day and become powerlifters.

~~~
jacques_chester
> _snootiness from traditional weightlifters who seem confused that crossfit
> is not trying to be powerlifting or bodybuilding_

I'm impressed at how you managed to conflate three distinct sports in a
sentence.

~~~
rm445
On a logical basis my statement is fine. I could have written 'snowboarders
who seem confused that crossfit is not trying to be canoeing or flower
arranging.' :-)

But yes, apologies for my poor terminology.

------
eshvk
Crossfit was my first introduction to Weight lifting. In that sense, I am very
grateful to CrossFit. However, the process of learning form is incredibly
hard. I went to one of the best Crossfit boxes in SF and while I have complete
faith that they did emphasize good form, being overwhelmed by the number of
new things I had to learn while maintaing good form was too much for me. This
came to a culmination where I hurt my knee while doing fast reps of deadlifts.

Since then, I follow my own program of mixing strength and cardio-vascular
activity. It took me two years to learn good form. And good form is really
really hard to learn. Mainly because you have to go beyond prescriptive advice
from books, coaches or the internet and find out what works well with your
body. For example, I have relatively long femurs and a narrow squat stance
ends up creating additional pressure on my knees. It took me a long fucking
time to get over the prescriptive instructions that one's squat stance _has_
to be shoulder width.

Another thing that I personally realized was that very few people understand
the principles behind a fitness goal as opposed to cargo cult practices. For
example, for a long time, I thought that the only way to build strength was to
do barbell exercises. On the other hand, there is a place for machines. This
surprised me. Especially since the internet (bodybuilding.com/reddit) seem to
chant about how anyone who doesn't do barbells is doomed.

Also, learn the limits of your body. If you are not 17 and filled with natural
testosterone or pump your body with steroids, it is going to be hard for you
to achieve the kind of transformations that a lot of people appear to achieve.
As you grow older, your body just doesn't want to keep gaining muscle.

~~~
mscarborough
Deadlifts and compound lifts in general should not be done for speed. If your
CF were telling you that is good, then very certainly they were not teaching
good form. Form isn't just how you lift, but can you maintain that form
through the exercise?

I did CF for a while but stopped. After a few friends got hurt and another
friend told me straight out "this is stupid", I realized how halfass thrown-
together the workouts are. That "100 pullups" video recently really put it
into perspective.

------
danielodio
I'm seeing lots of opinions from people who don't do CrossFit.

Here's one from someone who actually _is_ doing CrossFit:

I'm a member at the CrossFit Palo Alto (CFPA) box (that's what we call the
gyms, because they're typically a sparse box-shaped gym). I've also dropped in
on other boxes across the country, which I do when I'm traveling.

The #1 thing to know about CrossFit is that while it's a 'brand,' it's not a
consistent experience between boxes. It's actually very, very different.
Erin's post doesn't make a ton of sense to me because it's as if she's saying
"I don't date men, because all men are jerks." Some men are, but some aren't.
It's the same with CrossFit. I'm sure that the things she described actually
happened to her at a CrossFit box, but they've never happened to me at CFPA.

I've been to boxes where I wouldn't go back. But CrossFit at CFPA has been
life changing for me as an entrepreneur. It's one hour, three times per week.
I get a very high ROI off of those three hours of commitment. I've been at it
for a year now and while I was intimidated when I first started, I've gotten
to the point where I look forward to the workouts now. The thing that's great
about CrossFit is how it makes the other things you do in your daily routine
easier. I'm a new dad and I carry my daughter in a bjorn, which means I have
to squat when she drops something and I have to pick it up. CrossFit has made
squatting easy, for example.

CrossFit _can_ be disastrous if you don't know how to keep from pushing
yourself harder than you should. Everything at CFPA is tempered with weight
decisions that are very personal. I've never once felt pressured to go to a
higher weight; if anything I was frustrated early on because the coaches
wouldn't let me go as high as I thought I could. Some boxes likely aren't as
good at monitoring that.

United Barbell up in SF is good, as is Horsepower in LA. Those are the three
boxes I've been to that I thought were very professionally (and safely) run.
Hope that helps.

~~~
AndrewBissell
I've been a member at UB since they first opened their doors. Good form is
absolutely their number one concern, and they do a great job of taking all the
best parts of CF while not drinking the Kool-Aid. (I've known the coaches
themselves to poke fun at HQ's more grandiose claims about CF from time to
time.) They also apply more of a strength emphasis to their programming, which
I think is far more helpful than the "hero WOD", 30-minute burnout workouts
that tend to show up in more orthodox CF.

The author's contention that her complaints apply to "EVERY SINGLE GYM THAT
FOLLOWS CROSSFIT" is just uninformed over-generalization, made _less_
convincing by being written in bold all-caps.

~~~
letstryagain
You seem to have missed what she's saying. She is say 'EVERY SINGLE CROSSFIT
GYM' does high-rep heavy weights for time, which is a bad idea. Doing squats
or snatches as fast as you can is a recipe for disaster, and this high-speed
high-rep style IS crossfit, and ALL crossfit gyms do it, and that's why she
says this. It's not about 'some gyms don't care about form'.

------
steffenhiller
Finally a better anti-crossfit post with details and references.

My question: What’s a good alternative?

I’ve been only to one crossfit gym for half a year (and stopped because I went
to a place without a crossfit gym nearby, I plan to start crossfit again). I
think I got lucky to have been at a good gym, and as others have pointed out,
the author cannot simply assume all gyms are bad.

Here’s my personal experience:

\- Before a WOD, we ALWAYS did a refresher on the form of the WOD’s exercises
WITHOUT weights

\- The gym offered weekly special classes from professional weight lifters and
gymnasts for working on form

\- Sometimes, at the end more often, there were 2-3 coaches for a group of
around 5 - 15 that watched the form

\- I think we never did deadlifts within a WOD, only before as a separate
exercise

\- In WODs with time-limited sets the coaches always said we can take a minute
time out if we reach the limit of a set

\- I never saw coaches screaming “boot camp”-style

\- I didn’t like partner WODs as they pushed me too hard and therefore made me
neglect my form. Those partner WODs were only done once a week, so I simply
didn’t go at that day.

Overall, my experience in terms of coaching and results was multiple times
better than at any “normal” gym I went before.

------
micro_cam
The popularity of cross fit can be explained, at least in part, because it
promises to cram an extremely effective workout into a short period of time
that is easy to fit into ones day using short intense intervals and paired
opposition exercises. It is almost presented as a hack to get fit in a small
amount of time (and is not, to me, out of place on hacker news).

Setting aside the idea that the culture can contribute to people doing
exercises wrong and risking injury the debate over cross fit become about
weather short, intense, interval workouts are effective.

Famed alpine climber (and trainer to the stars of the movie 300) Mark Twight
was an early proponent of the cross fit style work outs but has since returned
to including longer endurance style workouts in his programs. He stated in an
article titled something like "There is no free lunch" that he saw initial
gains from the cross fit style but that endurance began to suffer seriously
after 18 months. [1]

Another great climber/multi sports athlete Will Gadd has a number of posts and
articles on cross fit and is generally a fan but uses it between sports
specific training and with more emphasis on correct form and less on time. [2]

A balanced conclusion would seem to be that cross fit style work outs are
better then nothing, can be effective as part of a large training plan even
for serious athletes but that we should be aware of the risks of injury and
must take personal responsibility for doing exercises correctly. And should
still find time to get out for long hikes, bike rides etc if we are interested
in having true all day endurance fitness.

[1] The article has since disappeared from his "Gym Jones" website but
excerpts can be found here:
[http://conditioningresearch.blogspot.com/2008/07/intervals-f...](http://conditioningresearch.blogspot.com/2008/07/intervals-
for-endurance.html)
[http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5963](http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5963)

[2][http://gravsports.blogspot.com/2009/11/congrats-to-gm-
crossf...](http://gravsports.blogspot.com/2009/11/congrats-to-gm-crossfit-
training-from.html) [http://willgadd.com/injury-and-a-few-crossfit-mods-as-a-
resu...](http://willgadd.com/injury-and-a-few-crossfit-mods-as-a-result-
planes/)

~~~
irv
That Marc Twight article appears in the recently published book "Training for
the new alpinism" by Steve House. Seriously recommended.

------
bmoresbest55
I am was a college basketball player and have played some professional ball as
well. I lift on a daily basis and have been doing so (not daily) for just over
a decade. I honestly don't know that much about CrossFit. I don't get caught
up in all the hype of different weight lifting exercises or different name of
workouts.

The number one thing that I can gather from reading this article and
understanding how people typically act when exercising, trying to make
themselves better, is that they judge others harshly. Even the OP is quite
harsh on CrossFit. She has so much "experience" because of her championships
and whatnot but I, to a certain degree, have to disagree with her. Not because
she is right or wrong but because of her lack of experience in CrossFit. She
is telling others not to do it under any circumstances simply because she
never experienced these workouts in her collegiate career. Maybe this is
something new and better (probably not) but I do not like how she has given
herself power to proclaim so many others wrong. Just as they would do to her
if given the chance. I think the OP should have been more understanding or
even more persuasive in her post. That, I feel, is a make better way to get
people on your side. (Not that we are not all on the same side.)

CrossFit on the other hand does not seem to be a proper vehicle for getting
the masses in a proper routine. Trainers should not be deemed as such in a
weekend and that is sad. However, as always people are lazy and do not read
the fine print. This is a problem deeper than CrossFit or exercising in
general.

I guess overall my comment is here to say make your own path and earn it. Do
not rely on others to do so and also if your do have experience and truly
think your can help others become a trainer or coach (after YEARS of training)
and help others reach their goals. Don't post an off-the-cuff article about
how you are awesome and everyone else is not and expect things to change.

------
QuantumChaos
Many people have commented on the safety of deadlifts in the article.

I believe that there is a cognitive bias towards attributing injuries to form
as opposed to random chance.

Suppose that even with perfect form, there was baseline injury rate (and the
injury rate increased beyond this with bad form). It would be very easy to
attribute any injury, ex-post, to bad form. Reasons for this might be that a
person doesn't want to appear unknowable/unskilled, wanting a feeling of
control over their future outcomes, or feeling guilt about not having
accomplished their goals.

When I injured my knee doing squats (patellofemoral tracking/pain), I related
my symptoms to a doctor friend, who correctly diagnosed the issue, and
commented that it usually happens when people try to squat too much weight. I
was about to correct him that the weight in itself is not the issue, if
perfect form is used. At that point I realized that the bias I described above
might exist.

~~~
cthalupa
Well, of course you can injure yourself in you try to squat too much.

But the squat is not a knee dependent movement, so if you injured your knee,
you were not using proper form.

[http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-rippetoe/squats-
lifting-k...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-rippetoe/squats-lifting-
knees_b_4490749.html)

------
newaccountfool
I get coached at Olympic Weightlifting and all the people in our circle slag
of Crossfit due to the cult nature of it, the lack of form and the cost. Is it
really that expensive how much is it to train at a Corssfit gym in the states?

~~~
jacques_chester
I'm a weightlifting coach. I generally agree with Mark Rippetoe's observation
that Crossfit is the best thing to happen to my sport in English-speaking
countries. Lots of people meet weightlifting, fall in love, and switch.

------
jasallen
While I agree with the end sentiment "Crossfit is not a great program" I've
got several problems with this article.

1) A lot of discussion of being sore. Sure one of the first things mentioned
is "I've been sore before", but then we move on to more complaining about it.
That is a natural part of doing any new movements, no matter how in shape you
are overall.

2) No appreciation of the value of high rep movements. True, they are not good
for hypertrophy (probably, even there the research is shakey whether low and
high should be mixed), but they are good for building connective tissue
strength, for burning calories, for increasing range of motion in a movement,
for bone density...

3) Author links a balanced WebMD article but the link text implies it fully
agrees with the negativity.

4) Article doesn't talk much about joint issues which are probably the biggest
concern a lot people have with crossfit movements. The violence of many of the
movement can lead to muscle and connective tissue problems, but those heal and
are obvious.

So, what are my issues with Crossfit?

1) Quality control. The excuse of crossfitters to "just find a better gym,
they aren't all like that" is inadequate. Its a single program and a single
franchise making money off each gym-goer, not an abstract concept like say
HIIT. Ask Krispy Kreme or Quiznos how the no-quality control franchise theory
works.

2) They rely on joint stability and momentum as much or more than on muscle.
You are simply getting no benefit from that.

3) The movements are violent unnecessarily, this I agree with the author on.
The joint reliance, the _tugging_ at muscles and tendons, are all high risk
for injury. While there are things that type of work can build that regular
weight training cannot, the risk/reward is only worth it for people with
specific training needs and doing specifically valuable movements. Kettle
bells and kipping pull ups are pretty much never as valuable as good mornings,
dead lifts, assisted pullups, and lat pulldowns. Clean and jerk has valuable
movements taken separately, but combines them with high joint risk moves in
between.

~~~
Retric
Healthy exercise is something you recover from quickly. If your dead the next
day chances are you did more harm than good. When learning a new technique
your better off using 1/2 the weight and 1/2 the reps than pushing yourself
because avoiding injury is worth far more in the long run than pushing your
self.

~~~
jasallen
Delayed onset muscle soreness? Super common, practically ubiquitous with
strenuous exercise.

Pyramid set a bench press to your 3 or 4 rep max, or widowmaker some squats.
If you aren't sore you have some sort of mutant super abilities.

~~~
Retric
To be clear there is a difference between being uncomfortable and being in
real pain. Unfortunately you can't really get a chart that separates 'good'
from 'bad' pain which is why doing less often so much more productive in the
long run.

------
the_watcher
Not commenting on CrossFit, but the author makes some simply incorrect
assertions (kettlebells aren't beneficial? Empirically untrue. Doesn't mean
everyone has to do them, but that doesn't mean there is no benefit).

------
AndrewBissell
One thing no one has really mentioned yet, which I will throw out as a major
positive impact from CrossFit, is that it's often a member's first exposure to
more paleo styles of diet. I've personally found that to be hugely beneficial
in reorienting my attitudes toward fat and meat, which are still unfortunately
(and baselessly) viewed as dangerous in both pop culture and mainstream diet
orthodoxy.

------
DennisP
I'm wondering whether CrossFit's approach is especially hard on the heart. A
friend of mine, in his mid 40s, had been working out for a year, then went to
his first CrossFit class. At home afterwards he laid down for a nap, had a
heart attack, and died.

It's entirely possible that it was going to happen anyway, but for us older
folks maybe a little extra caution is warranted for this type of exercise.

------
decasteve
As a former athlete I like the direction CrossFit took even though I have
similar complaints to the article. I try not to paint all CrossFits as the
same. I know a few that are exceptionally well run. I like that CrossFit got
people away from the 1980's muscle-mag workouts--isolation exercises, i.e.
everyone training like Arnold.

~~~
defen
> everyone training like Arnold.

Which is funny because compound lifts were a key part of his training
repertoire
[http://ericsgym.com/arnoldschwarzenegger/gym_pictures/arnold...](http://ericsgym.com/arnoldschwarzenegger/gym_pictures/arnold_24.jpeg)

~~~
newaccountfool
Many don't know that Arnold also competed in Olympic Weightlifting as well.
He's probably very good because he started at the basics.

------
socrates1998
I have always said people like and do Crossfit not for the workout, but for
the atmosphere.

It's a subpar workout done in an unsafe manner, but they have created a
strangely cult-like culture that people are dying to be a part of.

People want to be a part of something that is "cool" and "advanced".

This is the primary draw of Crossfit. And the girls.

------
Huggernaut
I don't do CrossFit and I think CrossFit has many problems. I do not however,
think that given proper instruction and supervision, the exercises and rep
ranges are particularly problematic. The key point to keep in mind regarding
CrossFit is the end goal, the CrossFit games. CrossFitters are not training to
be bodybuilders, powerlifters, strongmen, football players or sprinters, they
are training to be CrossFitters. If they do a WOD, it is not designed
optimally to make them aesthetic or strong, it is designed to improve them in
competition. Much like you would not go to an athletic track and complain that
the sprinters are not optimally training for a marathon or go to a
powerlifting gym and complain the players are not training optimally for
bodybuilding, why would you go to a CrossFit gym and complain they aren't
training optimally for any number of other forms of competition that involve
weight?

That said, it should be clear to people when they sign up to a CrossFit gym
that this is indeed the case and other benefits are side effects.

------
jonas_b
FWIW. Here in Oslo, everyone has to do a weekend-intro just to become a
member. And instructors are here are really thorough. Other than getting a
personal trainer, I don't see how you could get more attention/correction than
going to entry-level workout at my gym.

~~~
commandar
One of the big problems with Crossfit is there's absolutely no consistency
between locations. Anyone with a grand and a weekend to spare can become a
Crossfit instructor.

So, if you're lucky, you get an instructor that really knows what they're
doing. If you're not, you get somebody that programs dangerous lifts in and
gives them to people that don't know any better and expect their instructor to
know what is or isn't safe.

------
eterps
The problem is that other than having a personal trainer I don't see anything
better than CrossFit gyms. The 'normal' gyms are usually a lot worse than CF
ones, at least around here (I am living in Amsterdam). Would love to hear
other experiences though.

~~~
theboss
I don't know what you mean. Cross fit undoubtedly has pretty good equipment
compared to a globo-gym, but globo-gyms will have everything you need 99% of
the time. A squat rack, a bench, and some barbells...Places to do pull-ups,
dips, a huge array of dumbbells....

It also isn't hard to find gyms with bumper plates that are powerlifting/oly
friendly, or specialized gyms that have whatever your in to (rock climbinb
gyms exist, etc)... You just have to do your research

------
jttam
I am an injured crossfitter. I herniated my L4 vertebrae's disc, and I will
likely never be the same. That being said I also used to be a 305 pound man
who became a 192 pound man on Crossfit and its concepts. I have never been a
"zealot" but I do have some problems with this article.

My problems with this article are multiple, but the big glaring one which
people seem to be repeating here over and over again are that Crossfit level 1
certified coaches only "spend a weekend". They make it sound like these people
literally came off the street never having done Crossfit before and got
certified that weekend.

Maybe that's true. But I've never met a person who took the level 1 let alone
became a coach at a box that didn't already have a good chunk of time actually
doing WODs and improving from them under their belt. They have gone through
the discipline in their own practice and have decided coaching that would be
something useful for them. Unlike NASM where you can read a book and get
certified, there is a hands-on/lab teaching component. This should be lauded.
And no, not everyone is a great teacher, and the best judgment is on the
community to determine if someone is working or not. (I've seen Crossfit
instructors be dismissed from boxes.)

I would like the OP to quote some articles and provide some science around why
the Crossfit HIIT/circuit style training is actually dangerous. I understand
the concept, that when in fatigue doing additional work is dangerous, and that
Crossfit encourages this at some level, but it's always on the discretion of
the participant to put the bar down, to stop doing the pull-ups, and to stop
where they got to that session in a WOD. The real challenge in Crossfit is not
to leave it all out on the floor, it's to know when to stop leaving it.

What Crossfit does that I see a lot of personal training and individual
training programs neglect are concentrations on proper mobility, warm-up, and
form. And this comes from a guy who started Crossfit basically near the worst
possible shape you can.

Another thing is I was able to study for a year+ with a multi-year Crossfit
Games placing athlete, and they used Crossfit WODs to train. Pretty much
exclusively. The volume was amped up for sure, but the same movements and the
same formats. Maybe the really, really successful people don't do that? But
the interviews I see with Rich Froning and Mikko Salo tend to basically say
they do three workouts a day in the crossfit-style format. Metcons, endurance,
strength. Oh well, I'm late to this party, but my $0.02.

------
ZenPro
A well written and comprehensive rebuttal to the cult-like CrossFit. Thanks
for the link.

------
paulbaumgart
I've only done it at [http://www.crossfitv16.com](http://www.crossfitv16.com)
so my experience may not be typical, but in the classes I've been taking,
there's a strong emphasis on good technique and no pressure to push yourself
past reasonable limits. It's definitely a bit amateur compared to what top
coaches can offer, but it's also affordable to amateur athletes.

Finally, the workouts are clearly not optimal for strength gain, but the idea
is to train coordination and balance as well.

So I guess my point is, YMMV when it comes to Crossfit gyms, perhaps
unsurprisingly given that it's a franchise.

~~~
zo1
Doesn't sound like you read the whole article. The author specifically
addresses the "but _my gym_ is doing it correctly, it's the others that
aren't" cult-like mentality. Each gym does it, and it's a form of
indoctrination.

~~~
vertis
(Note: I don't do CrossFit, and I'm not looking to defend CrossFit)

Of the whole article, I found that point the weakest. The author hasn't been
to every CrossFit gym out there, so I don't know how he can claim "every
single thing that I’ve posted in this article refers to EVERY SINGLE GYM THAT
FOLLOWS CROSSFIT"

~~~
blankenship
The Workout Of The Day is one of the main things he takes issue with. The OP
can claim “every single” because the primary methodology of Crossfit is
ubiquitous—that’s what makes it a Crossfit gym. He doesn’t have to visit every
Crossfit gym to know they do a WOD; it wouldn’t be a Crossfit gym without the
WOD.

It’s like saying I don’t need to visit every movie theater in America to know
that they all show movies at regular intervals.

~~~
ZenPro
I cannot +1 this comment enough.

I have seen recently, particularly from STEM-themed forums that the standard
rebuttal is "you cannot speak for every X since every X is not
documented/viewed/visited".

The cinema analogy is very well put. It is an exceptionally weak attempt to
divert an argument by claiming *all X must be tested."

In reality all that is required is a reasonable belief of proof that
withstands questioning. The OP easily withstands questioning when speaking for
all of CrossFit.

~~~
2muchcoffeeman
Except that blankenship and the author are wrong. Go to 10 different gyms on
the same day and you'll get 10 different workouts with 10 different formats.
WOD is simply an acronym of a phrase used to describe what you are doing
today. There is no definition.

I have been training at a CrossFit gym for several years now. I do the WODs
that most people do sometimes. However we also have a small rock climbing
"system wall" that I do climbing drills on. I have also been cycling through
running programs to be a better runner, single leg programs to improve
stability and balance due to injury (not CrossFit related) and just for fun a
one arm chin up program just to see if we can do it. All under some
supervision from the head coach. We also have ultra marathoners and dedicated
Olympic lifters at our gym all doing different WODs.

My CrossFit gym clearly does not conform to the "Reebok CrossFit Games" style
of working out and I challenge you to show me when rock climbing drills came
up in any WOD. All these arguments against CrossFit are really against the
common public perception of CrossFit. Plenty of gyms out there that don't do
that and still have "CrossFit" in the name.

BTW, I agree that the popular form of CrossFit is stupid and everyone should
probably stay away from these gyms.

~~~
defen
> Go to 10 different gyms on the same day and you'll get 10 different workouts
> with 10 different formats.

But, that is the point they are making. WOD means that your workout is not
tailored to _you_. Everyone in a particular gym at a particular time does the
same WOD.

~~~
2muchcoffeeman
If you are criticising CrossFit because it's not tailored, then you should
criticise pretty much all the gyms out their that offer classes. Your yoga
class, boxing class, P90x, etc ... none of it is tailored.

You need a coach to assess you and write up a program if you want a tailored
program. And even then, you need to ask "Why?". Do you need extra rehab work
for an injury? Have a specific goal in mind? Do you train for sport?

------
iblaine
The first rule of crossfit is to tell everyone that you are taking crossfit. I
went to crossfit in the bay area. Seriously some of the most annoying people
in the world.

------
huherto
But it doesn't answer the question. How would you modify crossfit to make it
safer and more effective and keep it fun.

~~~
omegaham
Create a distinction between low-stress exercises and high-stress exercises.
The former can be done to failure; the latter have to be stopped as soon as
your form starts to break down. The former include a lot of body-weight
exercises - push-ups, sit-ups, flutter kicks, planks, etc. The latter is any
exercise where a breakdown in form is actively dangerous - deadlift, snatch,
clean and jerk, squats, and so on.

Do the former all you want; the worst you're going to get is some soreness and
maybe muscle strain. The latter will tear things.

------
blue11
This was probably the best critique of Crossfit that I've read so far.
Personally, I've been doing Crossfit for 2+ years and I've got a lot out of
it. In fact, I have been in the best shape of my life because of it. At the
same time I've always had issues with some things. For one, the nutrition
principles that they advocate, basically the Paleo diet, is quite questionable
in my opinion (although not really harmful , since it's basically a low carbm,
high protein diet). And, yes, there are lot of practices that predispose to
injuries. In fact, I'm currently recovering from an injury that I am pretty
sure I got at CF, although it wasn't the type of injury that you can pinpoint
to a particular moment. Even though I believe that it was mostly my fault,
because of bad form, and because of underestimating the damage for months and
making it worse, at the same time it is true that the CF environment is such
that it increases the chance of people injuring themselves.

However, this and other articles criticizing CF don't really understand the
appeal of CF to most of the people that go there. The criticism is usually
coming from serious athletes (and I use the word broadly to include
professional athletes, semi-professional, and people that have always been
just good at sports). Guess what, most people are not athletes, they do not
have the knowledge or the motivation to come up with a proper training program
and execute it on their own, and they are easily discouraged when sports do
not come naturally easy to them. Most people are like me, they want to show up
3 times a week, do whatever workout has been prepared for them, and have an
instructor advise them on what their doing. There is not much out there that
comes close to CF. There are two big strengths of CF: Variety and
Accessibility. Variety: CF is an all around training program, which might be
bad for professional athletes, but it's great for people who just want to be
fit. Where else would you go if you wanted to "properly" train on your own?
Regular gyms like 24-hour Fitness don't have some of equipment like climbing
ropes, GHD sit ups, pull-up bars (they might have one for the whole gym), and
they have limited areas for doing things like barbell squats. (There was
recent story about a popular gym eliminating the squat frame because it was
"intimidating".) Accessibility: CF welcomes _everyone_. The complaint that the
WOD is one-size-fits-all is not quite valid. Any exercise can be scaled down
appropriately for each member. That means reducing the weight, reducing the
reps, exercise substitution (e.g, doing inclined push-ups for beginners, or
doing 3 pull-ups & 3 dips instead of 1 muscle-up, etc.), reducing the workout
length and so on. That's how everyone gets to do the WOD. This is a big deal
when you are a beginner! Even if you can't do a hand-stand or a musle-up,
there are other things you can do and actually make progress. An finally one
other thing: price. Yes, CF membership is expensive, but it is also several
times cheaper than a personal trainer, and if you go to classes that are 5-12
people you basically have a trainer when you need one.

I've tried different things before, but nothing was as easy to follow or as
effective as CF. Right now I'm kind of worried about going back to CF after I
recover, as I realize that the chance of getting another serious injury is
significant. But at the same time I don't see anything else that has all the
benefits. I'd be kind of curious to hear if other people have found
alternatives. Most of the suggestions so far are a long of the lines what a
motivated athlete would do, but they don't work for people who just want to
exercise casually for 5 hours a week and get a balanced workout.

------
cyphunk
WTF, this is frontpage HN?

~~~
itsPeople
Yeah, I don't understand it either.

And for the record, anything that incorporates unnecessary obscurity into the
basic premise of its mystique as something "new" and "cool", particularly by
way of acronyms and jargon is a clue that adherents are just wasting
everyone's time by playing the exclusionary elitist card.

Seriously. Does "Work Out of the Day" honestly deserve to be acronymed to
"WOD"?

I mean, for fuck's sake. It the exact same amount of sylables. Just sound it
out:

    
    
      Duh Bull You Oh Dee (5 sylables)
    
      Work Out Of The Day (5 sylables)
    

But, wow, I bet WOD saves so much time as a TLA when drawing UML diagrams on a
whiteboard, and blogging about your awesome new rotator cuff injury (AKA:
RCI), right?

------
paltman
I think it's a mistake to apply one-size-fits-all advice to CrossFit. Can it
be dangerous? Sure. Can it work well if you are not an idiot? Sure.

Bottom line is, you, as the athlete, must listen to his body first and
foremost.

Push through soreness, sure. But acute pain? No way.

The problem is, perhaps, that non-athletes come into CrossFit and haven't
learned the difference and are not coached on the difference. As a former
college athlete (football), that nuance had become second nature to me and
therefore I know when to use the coaching prompts to push through to motivate
me and I also know when to ignore them because I feel a potential injury
coming or realize my form is breaking down.

I think part of the problem might lie in how easy it is to become CrossFit
certified, not with the regimes themselves.

------
skizm
First let's start with a lesson on affiliate vs franchise. Crossfit (the
company) is an affiliate model. You pay $3k a year to use their name and $1k
to be "certified". That's it. You can start whatever kind of gym you want now,
as long as you don't bash the Crossfit name. Crossfit cannot enforce quality
control measures as an affiliate which is why so many gyms are shit. If
Crossfit enforced quality control, they would be pushing themselves into the
franchise category and open themselves up to all kinds of liabilities. They
don't want this so they stay hands off and just run the games each year.

Back to the article...

Welcome to every single Crossfit argument for the last 10 years. Coaches are
bad, high rep oly moves are bad, everyone's form is bad, blah blah blah.

The answer to every single complaint this guy has is that he is in a terrible
crossfit gym with terrible coaches. Granted, there are a lot of terrible
crossfit gyms out there and a lot of terrible coaches. That doesn't make
crossfit in general bad.

Crossfit is a sport, just like boxing, MMA, and skateboarding are sports.
Sports come with inherent risks. Deal with it or don't do it. Some people do
these sports with the main purpose of getting in shape, but also want to have
a little fun since benching by yourself in the morning can get boring. They
dumb down the movements to remove some of the risks but still capture the
nature of the sport. This is exactly like people who take kickboxing classes
at the YMCA. Kickboxing is dangerous, yet no one is arguing that we should
cancel all kickboxing classes.

It boggles my mind sometimes. Why are people so offended by Crossfit? Who
cares what other people do to get in shape? There are people doing parkour on
the top of buildings, jumping dirt bikes over the grand canyon, and
snowboarding down mountain sides and no one cares about them. Why is Crossfit
special?

~~~
enraged_camel
>>The answer to every single complaint this guy has is that he is in a
terrible crossfit gym with terrible coaches. Granted, there are a lot of
terrible crossfit gyms out there and a lot of terrible coaches. That doesn't
make crossfit in general bad.

First of all, Erin Simmons is a woman. Second of all, she addresses this
argument in the very last paragraph. You may want to read the whole thing
before commenting on it.

>>It boggles my mind sometimes. Why are people so offended by Crossfit?

It boggles my mind sometimes. Why are Crossfitters get so incredibly defensive
whenever someone criticizes them? What's with the fucking creepy cult
mentality?

~~~
skizm
My bad. Did not realize it was a woman. I did read the whole thing. Her last
paragraph is like me saying, "If you do any sort of MMA programming it is
terrible for you. You will get hurt. Period. No exceptions. Don't listen to
your coaches." Just because she says something doesn't mean it is true.

Second point, I should have asked, Why are people so offended by crossfit _in
particular_? Seems like a disproportionate amount of hate toward crossfit as
opposed to other sports. I guess you could attribute it to popularity though.
Bigger target, more pageviews/reactions if you bash it.

~~~
enraged_camel
>>Her last paragraph is like me saying, "If you do any sort of MMA programming
it is terrible for you. You will get hurt. Period. No exceptions. Don't listen
to your coaches." Just because she says something doesn't mean it is true

No it is not. The logic is both solid and easy enough to follow: Crossfit gyms
are about Workouts of the Day. Every gym does them. And they are dangerous as
hell. Therefore every Crossfit gym is dangerous. Another commenter gave this
accurate analogy:

"It’s like saying I don’t need to visit every movie theater in America to know
that they all show movies at regular intervals."

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7762796](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7762796)

~~~
mbesto
> _Crossfit gyms are about Workouts of the Day. Every gym does them. And they
> are dangerous as hell. Therefore every Crossfit gym is dangerous._

Huh? That's like saying "if you step in a car, you will get in accident.
Period." That's not logic, that's just called chasing black swans.

~~~
enraged_camel
No, it is like saying, "if you speed past every red light at 100 mph, you will
probably get into an accident."

A Workout of the Day (which every Crossfit gym does) is basically doing a
perfectly fine movement at very high repetition. The higher the reps of these
complex movements, the riskier they are. Therefore, every Crossfit gym is
dangerous.

~~~
obvious_throw
My affiliate's most recent WOD was a 3RM squat ladder with 2:30 rest between
each set. There is nothing "high repetition" about it and there are
specifically timed rest intervals to allow for ATP regeneration, etc.

You should refrain from claiming knowledge about the programming of every CF
affiliate on the planet. You're absolutely wrong about every single thing you
have claimed in this comment thread.

