Ask HN: Just curious, how prevalent is the use of nootropics‎ among HN members? - markhall
======
frankzinger
Four months ago, 200+ comments:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9242379](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9242379)

~~~
dmichulke
Elaborating on one of the ideas there:

If there were a simple molecule that increases your brain function by a
significant percentage without negative long-term consequences, evolution
would have probably found it already.

~~~
bottled_poe
That's not necessarily true. While I agree that the production of these
chemicals takes a lot of energy/resources which may not be worth the tradeoff
within the human body, there is no reason to believe such benefits cannot be
achieved through externally produced drugs. Also, evolution is a game of
chance, and the required mutations may not have occurred in humans yet.

------
willholloway
Every once in a while the urge strikes me to order about 20 ampoules of an
amazing nootropic from behind the iron curtain made from enzymatically
refining growth factors from the brains of pigs, and then loading 5ml into a
sterile syringe and stabbing it into the most muscular part of my thigh.

Pushing the plunger down, the elixir streams through the 20 gauge needle. I
feel no pain, Ever Neuro Pharma, the maker, is wise enough to include some
local anesthetic.

A serene state of heightened focus and recall is only 10 seconds away.

Cerebrolysin has a very real effect, and we know that from studies in rats and
humans. Its approved for a variety of conditions in 44 countries, and confers
an objective improvement in the capabilities of Parkinson's patients for
example.

It's revitalizing and it raised my average jeopardy score (self-scored in my
own style) by about 3 correct answers per game.

I have enjoyed a variety of nootropics, and am very happy to have gotten my
hands on some NSI-189, a DARPA funded molecule that aimed to create the war
fighter of the future.

It's currently undergoing clinical trials, but I have in my possession about
4.5 grams of the hippocampal stem cell promoting substance.

~~~
strlen
Have you considered writing short science fiction? Deadly serious, here: this
is very well written.

~~~
willholloway
Thank you for the kind words, they make me particularly happy because I felt
completely mentally shot post-burnout from an awful consulting project, I'm
glad I still have it, and I think NSI definitely helped my recovery.

My original goal post-college was to write, direct and self-fund microbudget
movies. I got caught up in the self-funding part.

Here is my latest attempt at solving the money problem once and for all so I
could focus on writing:

I called it the Winter Startup Challenge, and my goal is to defossilize one
human activity.

[http://wsc.willholloway.net/index.html](http://wsc.willholloway.net/index.html)

Theres some more (and photos) about nootropics here:

[http://wsc.willholloway.net/nootropics.html](http://wsc.willholloway.net/nootropics.html)

~~~
strlen
"Best part to predict the future is to live it." There's great deal of science
fiction about enhancement, but usually it discusses nanotechnology or compute-
based augmentation; there's less out there that would cover the impact of
actually understanding how the brain works ("the brain genome project") and
developing more "natural" solutions.

Re: movies. Charles Stross ('cstross' on here) mentioned how television has
effectively replaced the short story as commercial medium -- so youtube shorts
could effectively have the same impact short stories (e.g., Flowers for
Algernon -- _the_ original story about enhancement) once had.

tl;dr Please write a modernized "Flowers for Algernon", perhaps as a film
short.

~~~
willholloway
You and the other commenters piqued my interest in writing a sci-fi short
story. I'm currently trying to raise a f&f funding round and then on to a
crowd funding round, but I thought maybe I could justify the time if I put a
little product placement for my invention in there.

I was thinking about it and since we have seen the drug induced super-
intelligence story a few times, I was thinking of incorporating some of the
ideas of David Pierce, from his seminal work The Hedonistic Imperative.

[http://hedweb.com](http://hedweb.com)

Can't promise anything but I'll let you know if I do!

------
kbenson
Any question about nootropics deserves at least one answer that points towards
Gwern's nootropics notes[1]. Additionally, you can search (I suggest searching
for both gwern and nootropics in comments to identify stories) as this topic
has come up a few times before and a lot of people have chimed in with their
own experiences.

1: [http://www.gwern.net/Nootropics](http://www.gwern.net/Nootropics)

------
jen729w
Tumbleweeds seems to indicate "not very".

My view, FWIW: silly fad. Non-scientific. Just sleep more and get a moderate
amount of exercise and you'll probably be right.

~~~
dpeck
Not a user, and never have myself, but calling it non-scientific seems to be
quite a stretch.

~~~
comrh
People try some of these things based on studies with 12 people or just
anecdotal evidence on forums. Then sometimes you're ordering research
chemicals from the internet so who knows. We're not talking FDA stuff here.

~~~
dpeck
perhaps, I was thinking stuff like provigil/modafinil.

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occam65
I tried Modafinil a while back, maybe a few years ago. It kept me awake, but
that was it. No improved concentration, no boost in energy. YMMV

~~~
deathtrader666
Exact experience here.

------
boyaka
Saw an interesting and relevant discussion in this thread earlier today:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9877773](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9877773)

The user willholloway seems to have quite a bit of experience (using
deprenyl/azilect as opposed to amphetamines to prevent neurodegeneration) and
is touting a new "small-molecule drug", NSI-189, as a future major treatment
for "depression, ptsd, and other neurodegenerative disorders."

Edit: whatdya know, he posted here as I was typing this.

~~~
willholloway
I know how skeptical and cynical HN can be, so I thought I should add that
while I've become an evangelist, it isn't me that is claiming NSI-189 as a
treatment for depression and ptsd, its the maker Neuralstem, and it's backed
up by autopsied rats whose hippocampus grew 20% in size after the drug was
administered.

Here is an interesting blog post from the maker about NSI-189 and NZT from the
movie limitless.

[http://www.neuralstem.com/neuralstem-ceo-blog/86-i-cant-
give...](http://www.neuralstem.com/neuralstem-ceo-blog/86-i-cant-give-you-
brains-but-i-can-give-you-a-diploma)

I think NSI is such a cool story because besides perhaps rescuing millions of
people from the despair of PTSD, it is so similar to the concept of NZT in
Limitless.

And just like in Limitless, it is not easy to procure at the moment.

~~~
mb0
Did you experience major depression prior to taking the drug, or have you
talked to any major depressive people who also tried the drug? Have you
experienced any negative side effects from the drug, or talked to anyone who
experienced negative side effects? I am pretty cautious about trying new
drugs, as some currently legal drugs can carry dangerous side effects (ie:
viibryd causing brain shocks in active patients).

~~~
boyaka
Note that a similar question was asked in the thread I linked:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9880661](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9880661)

Not that it would hurt to discuss it further here.

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kleer001
You mean like coffee? Almost everyone, I bet you. Why? #1 drug in the world.

------
EGreg
You'll probably get anecdotal responses from members wo self select by having
something interesting to say, which is correlated to using a nootropic.

A poll MAY work better!

------
dboles99
I should note that I am over 40 and overweight but am losing weight on a
fairly regular basis. My goal is within another 2 years to drop down to a
manageable weight and hopefully reduce my intake of metformin altogether.
High-blood pressure runs in my family, so I think its unlikely if I lose a lot
of weight, that my use of high-blood pressure control medications will abate.

I start every morning as follows: 1\. 2 800mg Nootropils 2\. 1.5 Wakalert
Tablets 3\. My diet pills from the doctor here in Thailand 4\. 1 Herbessar for
my high-blood pressure

Wash it down with a cup of coffee.

Then an hour or two later, I start drinking iced green tea with no sugar and
eat a breakfast with carbs, then I take: 1\. 1 Hyzaar pill for my high-blood
pressure 2\. 1 Prenolol for my highblood pressure 3\. 1 Metformin of my
diabetes

Then, I have a yoghurt.

I sometimes have a snack of whole wheat crackers and hummus

Then, I eat dinner that is 2/3 veggies and 1/3 meat

My sleeping and work schedule are as follows: 1\. I wake up between 10am and
Noon each day 2\. I go to sleep between 2am and 4 am every day 3\. My workday
starts between 11am and Noon 4\. I take a break from 4pm/ 5pm to 8pm/9pm each
day 5\. During my break, I hang out with my kid, watch TV, read books, write,
do strategic thinking for my businesses/ jobs, eat dinner, and take a walk.
5\. My second shift starts 8pm/9pm to Midnight/1am 6\. Then I read, play
games, watch tv, etc... until I go to sleep

Then before I sleep, I take the following: 1\. 1 Metformin 2\. My nighttime
diet pills

I work 7 days a week between 6 and 10 hours a day, mostly around 7 hours.

Nootropics are just a small part, but I consider them a very important part.
Since, I do lots of academic editing, I find the quality is much higher under
the influence of nootropics then not. But, my use of nootropics integrates
them into my lifestyle.

------
alfapla
Your brain is probably the most subtle instrument in the universe and you're
plain stupid if you're going to blast it with synthetic drugs the long term
effects of which are still unclear. And for what? Most of you people are
already brilliant just like that.

------
TimJRobinson
I used to take modafinil quite heavily. It was great for being able to get up
at 4am before my day job and get work done. I did notice that although it made
me more awake and made it easier to get into the zone I tended to be so driven
to get things done that I wouldn't think deeply about problems. I often wrote
scrappy code to get shit done then realize a few days later it could have been
written far quicker and neater in some other way. Though this may have been
due to lack of sleep as you can't really tell if you've been getting enough
when taking modafinil.

~~~
AstralStorm
Probably lack of sleep. Modafinil itself only has slight nootropic effect if
any, both in my experience and in studies. That said, I have noticed similar
pattern when overdosing caffeine or amphetamine. Though nothing like it when
talking large doses of piracetam.

Sleep is crucial, Anything damaging it hurts performance a lot. Modafinil is
only a way to keep part of normal performance when undersleeping.

------
deathtrader666
Nootropics aside, I've felt my best when I have:

1) Had a low carb, high protein medium fatty diet.

2) Worked out heavily for 40 minutes to an hour

3) Slept for atleast 6h 30m

I've experienced amazing focus and quick thinking on such days, not to say of
the health benefits too!

------
superplussed
My main interest in nootropics is with microdosing LSD or Mushrooms. It gives
the sharpening of senses and elevation of mood you get when coming down from a
trip or the day after. Haven't done it yet, but I am very intrigued.

A redditor explains how he fared from 7 months of microdosing:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/microdosing/comments/38sef1/7_month...](https://www.reddit.com/r/microdosing/comments/38sef1/7_months_microdosing_full_report_experiences_and/)

------
comrh
I'm too scared of what could interact with my SSRI.

~~~
cmpb
From my own experience, vyvanse (lisdexamfetamine) pairs quite well with my
SSRI (lexapro). I'm not sure what most of the other substances in this thread
are, or if vyvanse would even be considered a nootropic by any standard, but
it has greatly enhanced certain cognitive abilities for me (most notably task
saliency, but also multitasking and recall, among others).

Of course, my need (or desire) for the two drugs is probably linked to the
same root cause since serotonin and dopamine are very much related in their
uses by the brain, so it would probably be best to consult with your doctor to
help ensure that the amphetamine doesn't interfere with your SSRI. The two are
often prescribed together, from what I understand.

------
baristaGeek
I'm taking lots of Modafinil lately. I particularly appreciate its effects on
concentration and long-term memmory.

~~~
deathtrader666
How much have you been taking daily? For how long? Experienced any side
effects?

------
deathtrader666
I do have my fair share of Modafinil. Works on me as it should [1]. Though I
do experience mouth sores by the 8th or 9th day onwards if I take them
continually.

[1] - [http://www.gwern.net/Modafinil](http://www.gwern.net/Modafinil)

~~~
notduncansmith
I've heard of similar things happening with drugs like Adderall or Vyvanse.
Is/was it from your tongue darting around your mouth a lot?

~~~
deathtrader666
Yeah my tongue did get the "restless tongue syndrome" ..

------
geographomics
I was sent this document a while ago from an acquaintance who dabbles in
nootropics; it may be of interest to those looking to try something new:
[https://bit.ly/1CHzody](https://bit.ly/1CHzody)

------
dennmart
I recently started taking L-Theanine and caffeine (mostly via coffee, but I
occasionally use caffeine powder). It seems to give me some solid focus for a
few hours, but to be honest I'm not sure if it's a placebo effect.

~~~
nootropicstoday
Same here, I couldn't tell if the focus was from the L-Theanine or placebo.
Unfortunately I'd also get a terrible headache many hours later and have my
sleep disrupted (again, hard to tell if it was placebo or not).

I still have the majority of a bottle left, so maybe I'll skip the caffeine
and give it another go at some point.

------
LordHumungous
I take Adderall at work whenever I can get my hands on it, which is rarely.

------
itistoday2
I found that piracetam and oxiracetam did result in moderate improvements in
cognition and ... _blanking on the word..._ ... _" verbal improvements"_. <=
That type of stuff would happen less, in other words.

However, I discovered that their effectiveness would wear off over time, and
worse, they'd cause me to be easily aggravated. I didn't realize how bad it
actually was until I was making life really difficult for my partner and
promised them I'd stop so that we could see if the agitation went away.

Well, it did, and I've chosen not to continue taking them. I've also found
that this is a fairly common side effect among users, so watch out. (And yes,
I was taking choline along with them.)

------
curiousjorge
I wonder if these are even safe to take? Some people seem to write praises
about it but it's not known if it really does make you smarter or not.

Well, nothing really beats smoking sativa and drinking coffee. Vastly improved
concentration, uptake of information, problem solving, writing & speaking.
Constant hunger and desire to eat enormous amount of food is the only real
downside.

------
comrade1
If you're a programmer and need to take this sh*t just to do your job, maybe
you should think about changing professions. (Programmer here that only drinks
coffee and drinks alcohol to get the balmer peak)

~~~
civilian
Alcohol is probably a harder drug than anything anyone else is recommending in
this thread.

And this isn't about surviving our job. It's about reaching our full
potential.

------
yebyen
I have never tried Modafinil, but I have heard of it. He said they were very
good.

~~~
yebyen
Downvotes? He's pretty accomplished in the psychedelic arts.

~~~
dasil003
Who? The question is who?

~~~
yebyen
You want me to name names? I'm not talking about a licensed doctor or
psychiatrist ^_^

~~~
kbenson
No, they want you to stop being coy. If it's your family member, friend,
dealer or whatever, nobody cares. Almost everyone using this site has a dealer
of something, whether it be mundane and legal like coffee, alcohol and
antidepressants, or less legal and through less reputable sources.

~~~
yebyen
The submitter asked how prevalent is it for people in the community to use
these drugs? I said I don't use it but I know someone who does.

He didn't ask for trip reports. How is that irrelevant or unhelpful? I don't
see any reason to say my relation to this person, it is a hacker who I'm
talking about.

~~~
kbenson
I think I see what you were trying to say. You heard of modafinil, and _the
person who mentioned it to you_ said they were very good. The way you
originally worded it makes the clauses seem independent (you could have heard
about it from some brochure, or a movie, or anything). I think people
downvoted you because "He said they were very good." taken by itself doesn't
identify the "he", and it sounds like you are trying to imply some secretive
information you have but are unwilling to share.

Imagine your first sentence wasn't present, and what people implied from your
post.

~~~
yebyen
I can see how it wasn't totally clear now, I was a bit tipsy when I wrote this
comment.

------
zenlot
These topics should be blocked in HN. As those retards do not know what they
are doing at the moment, but there are some younger audience reading HN, which
might get confused with the thinking that unlocking your potential, might be
achieved just by taking unapproved chemical drugs.

~~~
personjerry
Could you explain the downfalls of taking nootropics [that you are implying]?

~~~
zenlot
Yes, if you have medical degree to understand it. If not, please consult to
your GP first, then consult with fda.gov and their procedures. If that will be
too much for your brain(either because of too much usage of nootropics, or
because you were born with mental illness), you could just think of analogy
that eating mammals shit isn't healthy and can cause serious damage for you.

