
Why Ford and Other American Cars Don’t Sell in Japan [video] - pseudolus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9FELWSDYPk
======
bluetomcat
American cars don't sell well on any market outside the US domestic one. If
you need a tough vehicle for the desert, you buy a Toyota Land Cruiser, not a
Chevy pickup truck. If you need a well-built, well-handling sports car you buy
a Porsche Cayman and not a Ford Mustang. Comfy long-distance cruiser - a
Mercedes E-class over a Cadillac CTS by a huge margin.

The decision to buy an American car outside the US is completely irrational
and emotional. In Europe it's mostly the posers who want to look rich to the
untrained eye, by owning something rare that has a less advanced drivetrain
and worse build quality than the comparable European and Japanese offerings.

~~~
benj111
"The decision to buy an American car outside the US is completely irrational
and emotional"

To be fair, its also 'irrational and emotional' for most people in the US
also.

Patriotism isn't really 'rational'[1], and while keeping jobs in America is
rational, unless you work in the car industry, the benefits of buying the
right car outweigh the job/tax loss.

This would apply to any country and any car industry BTW, I'm not having a dig
at the US.

[1] theres probably many books on this subject, and there are a great many
rational elements to patriotism. Buying a car, just because it says 'made in
X', I would contend isn't one of them.

~~~
rjf72
I don't think it has anything to do with patriotism in and of itself as this
applies to most of everything. This $100 phone will cover literally 100% of my
use cases in a 100% satisfactory fashion. This $200 (let alone $1000) phone
will do the same. Let me think, I'll get the $1000 one!

Companies have convinced people, particularly in the US, that products are
reflections of themselves. In doing so they've convinced people to engage in
completely irrational consumer behavior on a very wide scale. $1000 phones for
one group of people is the same as $300 sneakers for another group -- wasting
money to try to convey an image. That $1000 phone has parts worth a few
hundred bucks, the sneakers are made for about $15. It's only with extreme
irrationality that these would ever be viable business models.

This is one of the big reasons I go out of my way to block any and all
advertising. People don't think they're susceptible to advertising, yet look
at society and people have become completely and absolutely irrational in
their purchasing. I think it's clearly marketing and advertising driving this
- patriotism is just one small subset of domains that is effectively targeted.

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needle0
The issues mentioned in the video is not new, and has been the case for
decades, yet AFAIK there doesn't seem to have been much effort on the US side
to adapt at all. The resulting perception is that US automakers don't really
want to sell to Japan in the first place; well, that's fine if they don't, but
then bringing it up as if it's a problem is baffling. You either adapt or you
don't.

~~~
Causality1
These companies dug their own graves in the early aughts and then the American
government used taxpayer money to dig them back out again. They never learned
to adapt because they can count on the government to be their nursemaid and
their attack dog, in the form of tariffs and laws against upstarts like Tesla.

~~~
pureliquidhw
Well, GM held quite a few jobs (and industries) hostage. They had little IP
worth buying, as they were already re-badging Australian and European cars.
The latest Saturn's were Opel's. Pontiac's were Holden's. Down economy made it
seem like no one would ever buy a truck again and Toyota had already proven
their trucks were as good or better.

If GM wasn't bailed out, they would have failed HARD. Like, plant closes,
which means in that town restaurants close, doctors offices close, tax revenue
drops so public sector jobs suffer, suppliers no longer have someone to
supply, so they cut back. There would have been a massive ripple effect in an
already awful time. Don't forget about the rampant middle class foreclosures,
middle class homelessness, college savings lost, etc. 2008-2010 was really
bad.

Also, it was a loan that GM was able to repay and gov't made money on the deal
on top of continued income tax payments from all the people who remained
employed and off unemployment.

~~~
Causality1
That outcome was not guaranteed. They could have failed anyway and it would
have been twice as bad.

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asutekku
To be fair, it’s really rare to see any foreign cars here in Japan. However
whereas i can spot maybe two or three european cars a day i think i’ve seen
less than 10 American cars during my time here.

------
rmason
There's a measure of truth in what the video says. But explain for me why
Tesla is only able to sell less than 300 cars a year in Japan? I know they
just introduced the Model 3 there which should help.

Or do the Japanese view the Tesla as just another big car American company?

[https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/how-many-tesla-s-
and...](https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/how-many-tesla-s-and-x-in-
japan.91834/)

~~~
goodcanadian
Teslas are very big cars by Japanese and European standards. I suspect that is
one of the main factors in American cars not generally selling well
internationally.

~~~
oblio
Tesla are big by Japanese standards. They're not big by European standards.

They are expensive ($50k+) and unavailable, though.

~~~
detaro
I guess it depends on how you count "big". They're not exceptionally big, but
clearly more in the size league of big Mercedes/BMW/..., which all are "big"
compared to common "sensible" cars.

Model X and Model S and other cars in that class are wider than the current
models of the VW Transporter van, and even longer than the short wheelbase
model.

~~~
oblio
Tesla Model 3: 4690 mm.

Skoda Octavia: 4670 mm.

Skoda Octavia is far from an exotic car in Europe.

The real problem is this:

Tesla Model 3: starting price €46k.

Skoda Octavia: starting price €22k.

~~~
detaro
True, for some reason I was thinking more about the two larger models
(probably because I've seen more of them around?) - and I have a very city-
dwelling perspective on small being important.

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Yaggo
Does Japan have custom duties for imported cars? (I don't watch videos.)

I'm European and in market for buying an American car. It came as surprise for
me that the price of Tesla includes several thousands euros of extra import
tax, compared to European manufactured cars. This feels wrong, i.e. I'm being
punished as customer/citizen because no European car manufacturer make
attractive alternative for Teslas.

~~~
pentae
No they don't. They say so in the first few seconds of the video.

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chriselles
Buick sells between 1 and 1.2 million cars in China the last 4 years.

Who knew Buick would be made cool again by Chinese consumers?

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olliej
Can someone with more time on their hands provide an TLDR?

[thanks for all the answers, it's super helpful :D )

~~~
Hamuko
\- Image of American cars being unreliable gas guzzlers.

\- Can't meet the Japanese buying experience.

\- Vehicle size.

\- No American kei cars.

However, US is arguing that removing some market barriers would help them
increase their market share.

~~~
benj111
Chevrolet bought out Daewoo, and in a stunning display of branding prowess[0],
in the UK at least, the daewoo Matiz is now the Chevrolet Matiz.

So that's a small 'American' car, small enough to be a Kei car

According to this there's also Pontiac and Holden branding :sigh: [1]

[0] when I think about Chevrolet, I think Chevvy V8s, 'Vettes, El Caminos,
Camaros, big (1970s big) American pickups, and just general Americana, car
culture, etc. NONE of those things are embodied in the Matiz.

[1]
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Spark](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Spark)

~~~
loolatrix
> Chevrolet bought out Daewoo, and in a stunning display of branding
> prowess[0], in the UK at least, the daewoo Matiz is now the Chevrolet Matiz.

> So that's a small 'American' car, small enough to be a Kei car

Nope, that's history for some years now. Chevrolet decided late 2013 to cut
the mentioned small car business with former Daewoo in Europe and leave this
field to their older (and now also sold) brands Opel and Vauxhall.

The only Chevrolets now sold in Europe are their so called "Iconic Cars"
Camaro and Corvette.

~~~
benj111
Check the Wikipedia page I linked to, it's still being made, so if they wanted
to they could ship them to Japan.

If your objection is to my use of the present tense, maybe? The Daewoo Matiz
is no more, and is now currently known as the Chevrolet Matiz? I'm starting to
talk myself out if it now though :)

I did try and send them a bill for my armchair strategising back when the
change was announced, they never got back to me though.....

~~~
kalleboo
The only thing harder to sell in Japan than an American car is a Korean car.

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Thermolabile
Well said and if you are wondering the top three Japanese automobile brands
have plants in the United States Indiana and Kentucky Toyota automobiles
Columbus Ohio area Honda and Smyrna Tennessee Nissan. Also Indiana is home to
a Subaru plant which makes the Subaru Impreza for sales here in the United
States and exports them to Western Europe via a rail shipment from Indiana to
Port Newark Port Elizabeth, NJ. Kei Cars if Euro NCAP tested 4 stars just look
at Mitsubishi i-MiEV.

