
Gates funded Terrapower inks deal with China’s CNNC to build fast reactor - blondie9x
http://neutronbytes.com/2015/09/23/terrapower-inks-deal-with-chinas-cnnc-to-build-fast-reactor/
======
ChuckMcM
I really enjoyed this announcement. There is so much going on here that it is
hard to track all the threads some times. Here we have China who will, with
practice, become better at building nuclear power reactors than the US or
Russia. That will lead to energy independence for China and that will cut some
drag on their economy and mitigate deaths from the whole coal fuel cycle.
Given the TWR burns "leftover" fuel, they can import nuclear waste from other
countries which have been unable to deal with it, and power their
infrastructure for "free".

And that puts folks like the Department of Energy in a real bind. And it makes
for an interesting challenge to the notion that the 'western' style of
governance leads to a better outcome for its people. What happens if China's
economy rides a wave of free nuclear power and their skies become clear every
day of the year with better air quality than any other country?

I don't know, but I do know that not pursuing nuclear power solutions has put
the US at a disadvantage on the world stage and sometimes, like now, wonder if
it will be the thing that knocks us off the #1 economy pedestal.

~~~
adventured
The US is the world's largest nuclear energy producer, and arguably still
possesses the most know-how.

Our nuclear energy capacity is five times that of China. We have four times
the reactors. And the share of energy we get from nuclear is eight times
higher.

Your premise is completely off-base. If the US does nothing for 20 years,
China might catch up to where we're already at with nuclear. It's questionable
at this point whether China can afford to make those investments to even catch
up, given their extreme debt condition, faltering economy, bleeding capital
position, and the upkeep costs on the trillions of dollars worth of
unnecessary construction they've done the last decade. Simultaneously they
have 800+ million very poor to take care of in a rapidly aging society that is
already overwhelmed with debt, but has practically no social safety net.

Where is the evidence that China has had a good outcome, compared to even mid-
tier Western nations? They have upwards of 500 million 'farmers' earning $1 to
$3 per day, because China knows there is nothing else for them to do.
Inflation adjusting those incomes, those half a billion people have seen zero
economic progress in five decades - and that's starting from practically the
lowest base possible.

China hasn't come even remotely close to challenging the notion that Western
style governance produces _drastically_ better outcomes for the people. It's
not a contest and there's no great reason to think it's going to be one.

The worst managed economies of Europe, have median incomes higher than the
bottom billion plus Chinese possess.

China's upward surge was caused by filling out the slack in their vast labor
pool. When that surge ended with the great recession, China had nothing else
to turn to, and started using extreme amounts of debt to try to keep the good
times rolling. The Communist Party hasn't accomplished anything meaningful,
rather I'd argue quite the opposite: I think they've doomed China to decades
of stagnation via debt, incompetence in leadership, and misallocated resources
- the outcome to all command-heavy economies historically.

Realistically the US merely needs to grow at about ~2% to match China's
current rate of real economic growth (and that rate is clearly going to slow
even more going forward). What advantage does China possess exactly? What is
the evidence their leadership system has worked better than if they had had a
Western style system?

Their easy growth is long over. Now they have to pay for all that debt, while
placating the social unrest that comes from the lack of progress economically,
and try to figure out what to do with their bottom 800 or 900 million people
that are still considered among the poorest on earth.

~~~
fspeech
Since you kept referring to China's debt situation: China, while not as rich
as Japan, is a large net creditor to the rest of the world. When one is told
that China has too much debt, it is about debt Chinese owe to each other.
Someone's debt is another person's asset. These internal debt/asset neither
makes China poorer nor richer on the whole as they all cancel out at the
natinal level.

~~~
KayEss
Surely that's only on the assumption that the debt can actually be serviced,
let alone paid back.

------
scintill76
Title was difficult to parse on the first try. "Gates-funded" should be
hyphenated.

------
justatdotin
China, because no democracy would tolerate this level of risk.

liquid sodium designs require elaborate safety controls to separate the
coolant from air and water, to avoid catastrophic explosion. Kinda a problem
when you're really just boiling water to create steam to turn a turbine to
make electricity.

As a result of numerous fires from leaking systems, operating sodium-cooled
fast reactors to date have been shut down more than they have run. Maintenance
is ...challenging.

------
Gustomaximus
Gates touted thorium molten salt reactors previously. Does anyone know if this
is now a preferred technology staying with Uranium or a compromise from his
POV?

Old Thorium article if you missed this from a couple years back:
[http://www.the-weinberg-foundation.org/2013/07/23/bill-
gates...](http://www.the-weinberg-foundation.org/2013/07/23/bill-gates-
nuclear-company-explores-molten-salt-reactors-thorium/)

~~~
DennisP
That article says the traveling-wave fast reactor was still their main effort.

Other companies are working on molten salt designs, including Flibe,
Terrestrial Energy, ThorCon, Transatomic, Seaborg, and Moltex. These aren't
necessarily thorium; molten salt reactors running uranium don't get the huge
extension of fuel supply but they're simpler and more proliferation-resistant,
and still have all the safety advantages.

------
greesil
Seems like this technology is still pretty dangerous

[http://ieer.org/wp/wp-
content/uploads/2013/09/TravelingWaveR...](http://ieer.org/wp/wp-
content/uploads/2013/09/TravelingWaveReactor-Sept20131.pdf)

------
mpnagle
Headline sounds like a Starcraft build.

------
twcooper
Gates-funded

