
Farewell America - Flemlord
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/farewell-america-switzerland
======
lucasvo
Most of you miss the point. I grew up in Switzerland and have a U.S. passport
because my father is american. I know countless other people who have U.S.
passports but haven't been in the U.S. for years. They will never be in need
of medicare nor do they care what the americans do, never the less they have
to pay US taxes to pay for politics that they don't neccessarily support in a
country they have never lived in.

This has been accepted by the other nations and they have tried to comply with
these rules as much as possible. Switzerland has stricter privacy laws which
allows people to evade taxes easily. The problem is, the swiss still pay their
taxes even though they aren't forced to – and there are numerous studies
suggesting that not forcing people to do something actually works better. I
can completely understand nations who want the swiss to close this loophole.

Recent events, this was confirmed a friend managing relations with the U.S. at
a big swiss bank, made a lot of people rethink whether they still want to keep
their U.S. passports and are getting rid of them. These people are have been
living in Switzerland for years made their fortune in Switzerland and plan to
retire here. Is there really any reason why they should pay taxes, just
because they were born in the US?

However you should read the second part, in which they start talking about
estate tax. In this example he talks about non-US citizens, people who have
invested their money in the U.S. Obama now wants to make a law that will tax
estate in the U.S even if the owner is not in possession of a U.S. passport or
a greencard. Doing an MBA in the states is reason enough to being taxed. This
means that a wealthy individual who owns US property or stocks & bonds and
spent some time in the US now has to pay up to 45% of estate tax in the U.S.
on his U.S. property. Just because you own German stocks, should Germany get
access to all your financial accounts and be able to freeze the assets when
you pass away to determine if you should be taxed in Germany? This is
absolutely ridiculous and as they mentioned in the letter, the additional tax
revenue will not create enough tax revenue to solve the problems of the U.S.
That's why they are suggesting that their clients should withdraw from
investing in the US, because that 2 month vacation in California suddenly
means, that they'll take 45% of your Apple shares when you pass away.

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jhancock
As near as I can tell, this article says "The U.S. won't turn a blind eye to
private banking tax evasion schemes anymore, so we're out of here".

So long and please don't come back. As long as there exist large loopholes for
high-net-worth folks to evade taxation, we will never get to bottom of "what
is fair and reasonable taxation".

~~~
steveplace
I'll take the downside. The ability to move capital outside of nations is, in
my opinion, critical to freer government and society.

~~~
anigbrowl
You can still move capital out of the US. If you do not wish to pay taxes on
your capital gains, you can move yourself outside and take up the citizenship
of another country, while renouncing that of the US.

As far as I am aware, there is nothing preventing you moving (say) a million
dollars of your personal, post-tax income to Switzerland and just parking it
there if for some reason you feel it's not secure here. You have to declare
the fact but it's not like there are capital controls in place that prevent
you from doing so - I'm quite willing to be corrected on this if you know
otherwise.

~~~
eugenejen
No, when you are dead. Since you were once U.S. citizen in tax sense by owning
U.S. properties and securities. (including you as permanent residents, or H1-B
visa holders) The U.S. tax authority now has right to go to Swiss banks to
request freezing of assets.

The worse part is when calculating your tax, the U.S. tax authority will treat
you as a non citizen so they can tax assets more than 60k, instead of usually
1 million in 2009.

This just happens to one of the Taiwanese Billionaire, Wang Yung-ching. He
owned U.S. properties and his company Formosa Plastics Corporation now is
trying to estimate the amount of the tax they owe to U.S. tax authority, even
the company is not a U.S. company and he has no U.S. citizenship and permanent
resident status. But because both entities owns U.S. properties. The U.S. tax
authority has their bites to all the company assets in Taiwan, too.

Meanwhile, his heirs in Taiwan still need to pay the inheritance taxes for
their own shares of the inheritance.

~~~
anigbrowl
Hmm, that sounds interesting but it seems much more complex than you suggest.
Mr Wang died in new Jersey and left no will; so far it seems there has not
even been a decision over whether his estate should be divided by up by a NJ
or a Taiwan court, which would result in different outcomes since some of his
unmarried lovers would have inheritance rights under Taiwanese law.

[http://www.probatelawyerblog.com/2009/08/new-jersey-hosts-
es...](http://www.probatelawyerblog.com/2009/08/new-jersey-hosts-estate-fight-
over-14-billion-legacy.html#more)

I also found information about estate taxes being paid in Taiwan, but not in
the US:
[http://www.taiwantoday.tw/ct.asp?xitem=54144&ctnode=419&...](http://www.taiwantoday.tw/ct.asp?xitem=54144&ctnode=419&mp=9)

Incidentally, HN readers might be using one of Mr Wang's chipsets:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Yung-ching>

~~~
eugenejen
Thanks for amending it. I thought it will not be that popular for U.S.
audience for his story so I simplified it. What I want to said is he is not a
U.S. citizen and permanent resident. But he owns properties in U.S.

I wonder what will be the case for Morris Chang? He retired from Texas
Instrument after he was sure his pension and stock was vested. Then he left
U.S. to Taiwan to found TSMC.

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steveplace
Be aware: reading Zero Hedge may be hazardous to your health.

~~~
borism
I have to agree. It does have some good tidbits every now and then, but mostly
spits out some derogatory non-sense. Does more harm than good.

It's somehow considered very professional and underground, but from what I've
read by real pros in the field, the guy mostly doesn't seem to have any clue
what he's writing about.

~~~
toxoplasma
Can anyone out there recommend good econ blogs/sites? I'm an econ novice.
Thanks!

~~~
steveplace
\- I run an advisory over at investingwithoptions.com, but it's more short
term and not econ.

\- Zero Hedge is good if you take it with a grain of salt

\- Barry Ritholtz at The Big Picture

\- paul kedrosky's blog

couple others, but they interlink with each other

~~~
jhancock
Your recent post on the education bubble is well written. I look forward to
future installments. Since I assume you make financial decisions with hard
numbers, I'm hoping to see some as this thesis continues.

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hristov
So the "article" consists of one sentence which links to another article and
says I should read the other article. This is such blatant hit farming that
even Slashdot would be ashamed of it. I am sure the other article is a fine
and important one, but I am just not going to click on it out of principle.

I wish I could mod stories down. How much karma does one need for that?

~~~
jhancock
I'm guessing you need admin access to the database to mod things down.
Flagging is all there is so far as published info.

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teeja
"...over the last 60 years has unquestionably been one of the most aggressive
nations in the world .... With breathtaking moral duplicity, the USA maintains
enormous offshore havens ..."

Thanks to Noam Chomsky ... and almost _noone_ else ... I already knew all
that.

