
A Confederacy of Quacks: The War Against Antidepressants - mburney
https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/war-again-antidepressents/ed777898f06c3523f2b91953ca512efe073c4614/
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entropyneur
I am very tempted to add my personal anecdote to the pile, but let me make a
humble request instead...

If you are not a medical professional, please stop spreading unscientific
memes and try to keep your opinion on mental diseases to yourself. The
question of whether the drugs work is better left to the actual scientists and
not be allowed to cloud the basic fact that one should always seek medical
attention if they feel they have a problem. Unlike most physical diseases, the
mental ones often impair your judgement and all this tinfoil hat bullshit
really isn't helping. So please, just don't.

Thanks.

~~~
zebra
The route out of depression is simple - go to see a doctor. At first they will
try to improve your state with talking sessions. If this doesn't work they
should prescribe antidepressant. Can somebody offer better way?

~~~
nikatwork
Also - if your doctor seems unhelpful, aggressive or useless, keep changing
doctors until you find a good one.

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freshhawk
How does someone use the word 'Quack' in their title and then focus entirely
on anecdote and pointing out that fringe wackjobs like Scientologists are
spewing nonsense (no shit). Using the rhetorical style of quacks against them?

Here's an idea, focus on the actual evidence. It seems it's because the
evidence is murkier than the stance the author wanted to take, which makes for
a garbage article and yet more nonsense spewed into a debate that affects a
lot of people.

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gaoshan
I've been on antidepressants from time to time. For the most part they did
very little for me and, on occasion, caused awful physical addiction (Effexor,
I'm looking at you) and this made me want to avoid them. But... newer
medications are much better than they've ever been and I recently needed to
start them up again so down the medical rabbit hole I went. I have to say that
the current generation of meds are nothing short of life altering, for me.
After a lifetime of varying degrees of depression I am finally finding relief
that lasts and seems to have no down side (specifically with a medication
called mirtazapine).

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thelettere
Meh. Some people like it, some people don't. Works for some people, doesn't
for others. To each his/her own.

But every drug has side effects and you're not actually changing anything
permanently - the minute you're off the drug you're right back where you
started. Psychotherapy actually changes the brain, and there are no negative
side effects. That's why I prefer the later and not the former (for any
issue).

~~~
objclxt
> _you 're not actually changing anything permanently_

Antidepressants can cause real and permanent changes to the human body. Like
any drug, some of the side effects cannot always be reversed when you come off
them. For example, there is thought to be a link between some antidepressants
and an increased risk of type 2 diabetes.

And if you stop taking some anti-depressants without weaning down the dose you
can have severe psychological side effects that can result in self harm,
suicide, etc.

It is good that psychotherapy is working for you, but it doesn't work for all.
The same is true of the drugs: some people respond very well, others not so
much. One of the issues, particularly in the UK where I come from, is that the
former (drugs) are both cheaper and more readily available than the latter.
Ideally people should be able to choose the treatment that works best for
them. This sadly isn't always possible.

~~~
thelettere
I meant positive changes - i.e. curing depression. And I don't have depression
- I'm speaking broadly about solving problems with pills vs. non-pills.

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BWStearns
I write as someone who would easily have been prescribed (at several points in
his life) various antidepressants. I never felt the need for them truly but
they had been suggested for me basically with the same level of consideration
as most docs hand out ADHD drugs. My girlfriend whom I love takes anti-
depressants and they help her tremendously, so I do acknowledge that they are
not without merit.

That said, I have seen people put on meds that were pretty clearly not needed
(both anti-depressant and ADHD/ADD meds). These meds were added as either a
form of insurance policy against some form of academic failure, or generally
in high school, a way to dampen off-median behavior.

The big issue I have is the scale at which these medicines are distributed, as
well as the early age of the target audience. It does seem odd that there are
more than 1/10 over the age of 12 in the US (2011 numbers,
[http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/19/us-usa-
antidepress...](http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/19/us-usa-
antidepressants-idUSTRE79I7FI20111019)) taking antidepressants.

I have no religious or economic reasons to discourage adoption of any
medication (if it works it works).

My primary objection to any given medication is based on my consideration of
how I might have turned out differently had I been put on every med suggested.

People are strange screwy creatures. I know some people really need help, and
to them: get it, it really does help. My fear is that an 8 year old version of
me (or you) somewhere is being told that something is wrong with them because
they're a bit spazzy in class and that they need to be medicated because of
it.

------
blendergasket
I was given anti-depressants and ADD medication when I was in college. I went
to a cognitive psychologist who gave me a barrage of tests and told me I was
off the charts ADD and had really bad anxiety and depression. I was definitely
anxious and at times I can get pretty down. I turned in less homework than
anyone in my whole high school and generally didn't care about most things
people wanted me to (I did pretty well in community college and university
though).

The psychologist didn't want to even start treatment til the meds kicked in so
I, being naive and trusting, said OK, went to the croaker he recommended I go
to and started taking them.

The anxiety went away as did the depression. So did any semblance of self-
control I had. I can definitely see how someone could fly off the handle on
these things kill a bunch of people if s/he had even the remotest inclination
to do so beforehand. I started dressing crazy. I started basically talking at
people, trying to blow their minds and confuse them and play with them. I lost
any desire to really connect with anybody, any empathy or sympathy. My ability
to introspect totally disappeared so I was unable to see what was happening to
me. Maybe the idea was that depression or anxiety is related to
overthinking/over-introspection or something like. Maybe I had an anomalous
experience but I'm pretty sure if I continued with them I'd be in prison or
suffering in some other way for the unanalyzed extremes I let myself get to.

I have other friends who have taken them or are still on them and I see/saw
the same thing with them, a complete inability to self-judge causing them to
make the same mistakes over and over and over and a tendency towards
unfulfilling behavior. The pill they take to be happy hijacks the ability to
ever create the circumstances to be happy without it.

I was unable to see what had happened to me when I was on them. I had to be
told by someone who I hadn't seen in a long time how much I'd changed. It was
a person I deeply respected. She told me in no uncertain terms that I wasn't
the same person I had been and that I had changed for the worse. I finally
tried looking inward and I realized she was right. Then I had to deal with the
hallucinations and electric shock sensations of withdrawal but I'm glad I did

I may not be happy all the time, or even most of the time. I may be full of
irrational fears but I believe I am becoming less so.

Meditation and Qigong help me.

~~~
lewispollard
For certain psychiatric disorders (and I believe for people who don't really
have depression) SSRIs can cause mania, which sounds a lot like what you went
through.

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calebgilbert
Members of my immediate family have had, and still have, anti-depressants as
part of what is making them worse than what was ailing them in the first
place. By far.

Everyone is entitle to their own opinions and has their own experiences, and
that's mine. So to me, the quacks are many of the ones prescribing the meds.

------
batgaijin
Here is an interesting source that contradicts the tone of this article:

[http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=185157](http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=185157)

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opminion
> Drugs in contemporary America are like prostitutes in Victorian Europe

Victorian Britain?

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ivmi
I know a prominent psychiatrist who believes that antidepressants are largely
useless. He still prescribes them all the time because his patients expect him
too.

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mumbi
After being on just about everything that can be prescribed, I can safely say
that they all make you into somebody you're not. Yes, it might make some
people happier. But, you know what? So does heroin.

In the end, the only thing that can fix you is you.

~~~
mistercow
It's exciting to hear that your personal subjective experience with
"everything that can be prescribed" generalizes perfectly to the other 7
billion humans on the planet. This should save a ton of time and money on
medical research.

~~~
mumbi
I think it's obvious that any psychoactive substance will change one's self.
Hence the word _psychoactive_.

~~~
zokier
Of course they'll change one's self, that's the point. Also talk therapy
(hopefully) changes one's self. More specifically changing from depressed to
not depressed. But that completely different from your original statement of
"make you into somebody you're not".

~~~
mumbi
To change one's self _artificially_ is to make one into something he or she is
not. Yes, I did not mention artificial, but I assumed that was a given.

