
Jack Ma Says 12-Hour Work Week Could Be the Norm - un_montagnard
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-29/jack-ma-says-forget-long-days-ai-could-bring-12-hour-work-weeks
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godelmachine
At the risk of being downvoted - I have stopped paying attention to Jack Ma.
He only knows to to talk.

Edit - Since someone’s asking for an explanation as to why I stopped patting
attention to Mr Ma ...

I have seen 2-3 videos where he sounds really inspirational. Like one where he
breaks down a persons career timeline and what he would be doing at particular
age groups. (Probably the most viral video of him)

Second video where he speaks on how we humans can stay relevant in age of AI
(By changing education in his words, teaching children to paint, play sports
et al which we already do anyways).

The second video was where I started doubting if he’s a clueless person and
just goes around fooling people.

Final nail in the coffin was his video with Elon Musk. I couldn’t believe for
a minute when Mr Ma says he has just returned from Mars. After that he said AI
should be named Alibaba Intelligence (If he had only cracked open a book and
read about the Dartmouth conference). And then the icing on the cake, the
answer to AI is love.

I won’t deny that love may be answer to AI, but Jack was just mincing words to
make another inspirational video.

~~~
baby
Someone needs to post the video of him and elon musk here for those who
haven’t seen it.

~~~
ridaj
[https://youtu.be/aHGd6LqAVzw](https://youtu.be/aHGd6LqAVzw) (just the cringe)

I didn't really care for what Jack Ma had to say before seeing this video.
After seeing it, I feel like he should be actively avoided as a source of
wisdom.

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JohnJamesRambo
I read this as 12 hour workday and got irate. That’s the tune he usually
sings...

[https://www.fastcompany.com/90335059/alibaba-founder-jack-
ma...](https://www.fastcompany.com/90335059/alibaba-founder-jack-ma-
says-12-hour-workdays-are-a-blessing-but-hes-wrong)

~~~
Aperocky
Pretty much what Alibaba is practicing in China.

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bithavoc
Here's a 5 minute summary of the conversation between Elon Musk and Jack Ma.
[https://youtu.be/aHGd6LqAVzw](https://youtu.be/aHGd6LqAVzw)

~~~
chrischen
Honestly I just see Elon being trolled in that video. It’s easy to see it the
other way around if you come from a different frame of reference. But from my
frame of referenance the idea of commercializing Mars, AI revolting against
humans, are ludicrous ideas.

AI can be bad, but only through abuse by humans and not by the plot of
Terminator. Mars is great but I feel like we have more pressing issue to
solve. Being rich and privileged can blind us to the pressing needs and focus
on overly lofty ambitions.

~~~
wavefunction
I would take colonizing Mars (with 12 hour work days) over wage slaving 12
hours a day.

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shams93
Instead what we get are some people working 140 hours for 40 hours pay while
millions are completely pushed out of the economy. These kind of benefits will
not happen automatically it's going to take serious class warfare and real
revolution and bloodshed to get there .

~~~
sasaf5
The benefits not happening automatically doesn't mean bloodshed is the
solution. I like to think that we could solve the problem with intelligence
and design. I forsee that some nation will come up with a better system that
does not require everyone to be consuming and employed. Maybe a UBI? Maybe
some universal dividend on capital? The savings from having only the best
workers employed, combined with the fruits of leisure, will propel that nation
ahead and others will struggle to catch on with it.

~~~
PeterStuer
More likely they will be destabilized/invaded/boycotted/cherry-
picked/psyopsed/bombed-into-freedom or beat into submission in any other way.

~~~
sasaf5
+embargoed.

Soft power is crucial to prevent that, that's why the surpluses of such system
should be directed to arts and technology.

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antiviral
If this ever happens, the reality will be closer to having companies keeping
30% of the people to work 40 hours and just not bothering to hire the other
70%.

~~~
thatgerhard
This is what will happen. one person will learn 2 skills, get a small increase
and work a normal week, while person 2 get downsized.

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olivermarks
Oligarchs crystal ball gazing about future money making opportunities for
minions after they have automated most job roles out of existence.

~~~
option
Automating whatever could be automated without loss of quality is the right
thing to do.

Making sure everybody have high living standards (as supported by above
automation) is a job of democratic governments

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rdlecler1
As long as we have housing and health as limited resources people will just
use time to work harder to obtain those resources.

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factsaresacred
> _The economic problem may be solved...man will be faced with his real, his
> permanent problem - how to use his freedom from pressing economic cares, how
> to occupy the leisure, which science and compound interest will have won for
> him, to live wisely and agreeably and well...three-hour shifts or a fifteen-
> hour week may put off the problem for a great while._

— John Maynard Keynes in 1930.

Still waiting for this to be true before buying into the 12-hour work week
theory.

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justicezyx
This guy ask employee to work 996 and defended that practice openly.

And frankly, he is about clueless as most citizens on AI (as demonstrated in
his awkward interchange with Leon recently), there isn't much of weight of
such statement...

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onetimemanytime
Jut image what father /mother you could be: leave work at 9 and come back at
9, exhausted. 6 days a week. Time with your kids? I guess one could it for a
year or months at certain periods of their life but as norm?

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TomMckenny
Possible indeed, Keynes pointed that out a couple generations ago. And as
always it depends solely on whether society is run such that people benefit
from or compete with technology.

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undefined3840
Wouldn’t be surprised if this guy ended up being a puppet for some larger
entity this entire time ala Epstein.

~~~
goatinaboat
I’ve wondered about that myself. Ma’s background, the things he says in
public, his weird movie, and so on, don’t match the concept of a ruthless
businessman. He could well be the friendly face of a cabal of PLA generals or
something.

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jjtheblunt
Where, by the subjunctive mood verb “could”, they mean “never will be”?

~~~
AlEinstein
Just conditional mood rather than subjunctive I think.

[http://web.cn.edu/kwheeler/grammar_moods.html](http://web.cn.edu/kwheeler/grammar_moods.html)

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mogadsheu
The Ma/Musk AI debate in China showed two very different societal approaches
to how to handle the impact of AI.

Ma’s approach is: everybody work less and enjoy the perks.

Musk’s is: learn AI or perish, and beware the consequences.

The two aren’t mutually exclusive, although the messages are different. I
believe this because Musk’s assertion of an elite few living in tall spires
and the masses living in relative poverty was overtly dismissed by Ma, but I
felt that his facial expressions suggested that he was hiding his agreement of
it.

~~~
35787
Everything you said is wrong.

1: Ma said that AI can never be as smart as a human. The core of his argument
was that humans will always be more clever than machines because humans create
machines. Humans working less is just a byproduct of this. I was amazed to see
how stupid Ma is. He is truly ignorant.

2: the core of Elon’s argument is that AGI is detrimental to human society.
Elon’s first choice is to not have AGIs come about. Merging with them is his
second choice and a stopgap measure. It isn’t learn ai or perish, it’s learn
ai and reduce the probability of perishing modestly. You may not realize this
without having heard other interviews though.

3: musk never said anything about people living in spires as a societal
inequality thing. He said in terms of being able to see what’s coming, some
people are atop spires and some people are on the ground. All he’s saying is
that some people can see clearly what’s coming (AI turning the world upside
down) and most people can’t see what’s coming. Nothing to do with
socioeconomics or inequality. Wasn’t a social comment.

~~~
mogadsheu
I was referring to their messages to the public about how to react to advances
in AI. Your interpretations are about AI’s impact on society. I don’t disagree
with your interpretations, but it definitely doesn’t make mine wrong. They’re
different facets of the same conversation.

~~~
35787
I don’t follow you. I have accurately described what they actually said in the
China video. Your descriptions were wrong. It has nothing to do with my point
of view. Go review the video.

