
What Dog Shootings Reveal About American Policing - curtis
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/07/what-dog-shootings-reveal-about-american-policing/533319/?single_page=true
======
Apes
There is no reason the officer should have drawn his firearm when pepperspray
or a baton would have been sufficient in this situation. The tendency to
automatically resort to their proverbial nuclear option is ridiculous. We
should be training police to effectively use and be comfortable with their
_entire_ tool set, rather than just having them default to their firearm.

As a side note, in the confusion of an arrest, it's easy for a suspect to not
realize how much the situation has escalated, and for a police officer to
repeatedly give conflicting orders to a suspect, both of which result in a
needless death.

Here's an idea: Police should have a loud speaker and strobe light on their
uniform that trigger when they unholster their firearm. The speaker should
repeat over and over until they re-holster their weapon:

" _SIREN BLARE_ A POLICE OFFICER HAS DRAWN THEIR WEAPON. REMAIN STILL UNTIL
FURTHER ORDERS OR YOU WILL BE SHOT."

The strobe light should trigger constantly to let the deaf know an officer has
drawn their weapon.

There's two reasons for this:

1\. It should make it clear to a suspect that they are dangerously close to
being shot, and should very quickly change their behavior

2\. An officer should not be allowed to give orders to a surrendering and
motionless suspect as long as they have their weapon unholstered.

If they wish to give commands to the suspect, they should re-holster their
firearm and possibly switch to a less lethal device if the situation calls for
it.

~~~
prestonbriggs
Pardon my rant, but... People say "baton" and I always think of the
lightweight tube runners carry around a track. In this context, a baton is a
nightstick. Have you ever examined one? A friend showed me his grandfather's.
It was about 2 feet long, made of cherry, and filled with lead. It would break
down a door or ruin a car. It would certainly break bones. With the lead
weight and small diameter, it would be more effective (lethal) than a baseball
bat.

"Baton" is just a euphemism that papers over extreme violence.

~~~
woodman
When is the last time you saw something like that carried around that wasn't a
rerun of "Cops" recorded in '89? Today you see telescoping steel tubes that
certainly couldn't break down a door and could only break bones intentionally
and with effort. You rarely see them deployed, which is unfortunate in my
opinion, because it is an escalation of force step designed to counter
physical but non-life-threatening aggression. So essentially you're abandoning
a spectrum of force and adopting a model of only two modes - subjugated or
dead.

~~~
prestonbriggs
I don't see police much. But I agree that the police batons I see advertised
for sale seem to be metal collapsible things, though I never find a weight
mentioned in the adverts. How much lead has been added to the tip?

An alternative I've seen used on campus is a big Maglight. I'll agree that it
represents a step that's usually less violent that reach for a gun, but when I
read of police striking a woman "21 times with a baton", I have a hard time.

~~~
woodman
I've never seen a leaded telescoping baton, but you might want to reconsider
the fixation on weight - because strike damage depends a lot more on the angle
and targeted zone. If the cops are getting anything like the military in
training on these things - they spend a lot of time learning where and how you
can hit somebody without risking permanent damage. I'm pretty much the last
person to stick up for cops, but beating somebody with a baton is hard work -
so I'd be more inclined to think the cop dealing out the blows is trying
harder than his fellow officers to not shoot a person to death.

------
StavrosK
I was just about to say I can't understand why police officers in the US just
kill things at the first sign of inconvenience, but then I realized I
understand exactly why:

When killing something solves every problem you may have and doesn't really
have any downsides for you, why wouldn't you?

~~~
ourmandave
You'd think the downside would be living with the knowledge you killed
someone's beloved pet. Cops are people too.

~~~
xkcd-sucks
>Cops are people too

The motivation to go home unharmed every night and retire with a pension
probably trumps abstract moral considerations

~~~
ourmandave
I was thinking of a video where the SWAT guys got the wrong apartment. It's
from a team-member's lapel cam.

Near the end of it, they have the whole family (mom, dad, and two little kids)
in the living room while they're searching the place.

The dad is zip-tied, face down on the floor and starts crying out loud when he
finds out they shot the family dog.

You'd have to be pretty hard core not to have some regret.

~~~
Simon_says
I don't know the specific video you're talking about, but these kinds of raids
point to an overarching problem with the police in the US, and that's the need
for aggressive raids of homes, usually of the "no-knock" variety. The reason
why police have the need to "no-knock" raid homes is that the crime is drug
possession, and the drugs could be flushed or disposed of if there were a
lengthy negotiation process to safely get everyone out of the house. Every dog
killed in these raids is collateral damage from our idiotic war on drugs.

~~~
DrScump
Courts have generally held that no-knock warrants are legal _only_ in cases
where critical evidence is at risk of _immediate destruction_ if police
announce normally (e.g. drugs down a toilet, bookies writing on flashpaper).

~~~
Simon_says
Exactly my point. (And it's overwhelmingly drugs, not bookies.)

It's a bad trade off as a society for us to make police work more dangerous
for the public and the officers in order to criminalize possession of certain
plants.

------
leesalminen
This bothers me. One of my dogs (Australian Cattle Dog) is very protective of
her home. Although she behaves very well at others' homes, in public and in
cars, once at home she will attempt to "heel" strangers away from the house.
She can appear very intimidating.

I could easily see a police officer shooting her. The thing is, I like that my
dog is protective of her home. It's really comforting to know that if, by
chance, I forget to lock my door she will absolutely not allow a stranger to
enter.

~~~
sliverstorm
_I could easily see a police officer shooting her. The thing is, I like that
my dog is protective of her home._

If you choose to encourage your dog to use violence to protect your home, IMO
any consequences are on you. Would it be any different, if you shot an
intruder without following the rules of engagement?

~~~
leesalminen
I think you don't understand what "heeling" is. It's not "violent".

Furthermore, dogs (at least mine) do indeed have rules of engagement. They
attempt to identify who is entering their home, assess their body language and
"vibes" and then make a decision as to what needs to be done.

I trust my dogs. Having them around greatly reduces the likeliness of me ever
having to resort to real violence (you know, where death is involved).

------
Johnny555
I've already warned my family to not, under any circumstances, allow the
police to enter our home or yard (without a warrant) while the dogs are there,
because there's a good chance that our dogs will end up dead.

Even if the officer is there to discuss a robbery, do not allow him in unless
the dogs are secured outside the house.

~~~
__jal
It is really an extension of the "Don't talk to cops" rule[1].

I wish I lived in a world where I trusted the police.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik)

~~~
edejong
You live in a world where you can trust police, however you're not in the
right country. In most western european countries, the police is actually very
reasonable. There are bad apples, for sure, but it's the exception, not the
rule.

~~~
bbradley406
>There are bad apples

People say this about the police frequently, but seemingly just as frequently
forget the tail end of the saying!

This confuses me because it is used in defense of the police. With the full
expression in mind, the saying perfectly describes the situation we are in (in
America) today. We should be very concerned about the "bad apples", due to the
strength of police unions, friendships with DA's, the "Thin Blue Line" etc.

------
vkou
Internal affairs will take an officer's word over that of a bystander in a
homicide. Why would they do anything different when a dog dies?

------
mberning
Policing in the US operates under a ridiculous warrior ethos. It should be
seriously reformed.

------
maxxxxx
These guys really seem to operate like an occupying force, not police.

~~~
DINKDINK
People with guns who demand your money and property and want people not in
their clique to have property or guns.

------
mmanfrin

      The Nation has noted a Department of Justice estimate of 
      10,000 dogs per year killed by police.
    

What in the fuck.

~~~
gorbachev
From the article:

"Last year, Reason dug up records showing that two Detroit police officers had
killed 100 dogs between them over the course of their careers."

If you were to consider your pets as just property, that's going to amount to
quite a lot of property damage alone.

~~~
bluedino
Detroit has thousands of dogs roaming the city, in packs.

[http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2014/10/detroits...](http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2014/10/detroits_stray_dog_population.html)

They kill other dogs, attack people, they are a huge nuisance.

------
fennecfoxen
See also: [https://puppycidedb.com/](https://puppycidedb.com/)

Or if you just want tales of stupidity, _Reason_ has a nice collection
[http://reason.com/tags/puppycide](http://reason.com/tags/puppycide) (if you
don't mind the typical Reason editorial positions, and the tone of its
coverage). Sample: "Cops Open Gate, Letting Dog Loose, Kill Dog, Cite Owner
for Having Dog Loose, Lawsuit Alleges"

------
ajeet_dhaliwal
No explanation of why the police went over the fence into the yard 20 minutes
after the security company had already turned off the alarm and it was known
the child activated it accidentally.

------
Sohcahtoa82
This makes me really sad because those dogs probably have have no idea what
happened. They saw a person new to them, heard a loud noise and suddenly their
face is in excruciating pain and they don't understand why.

------
danschumann
Another way tech could help would be putting biometric scanners on cops. If
they freak out during medium-level exercises ( lets say a mock-dog attack ),
maybe they are not beat cops! Officers should be expected to keep calm, in a
sense, their job is delivering calm to situations: de-escalating.

------
mnm1
How about not giving cops guns in the first place? It works in plenty of other
countries. Of course, you still have armed police and SWAT teams available for
more serious situations. I think short of this, nothing will solve any of the
police shooting problems here in the states.

------
xkcd-sucks
The best part is, attacking a police dog is treated as the equivalent of
attacking a human police officer.

~~~
rhcom2
This actually isn't true. It is a federal offense to attack a police dog but
it doesn't come with nearly the same level of penalty as attacking a human.

