
The Future of Farming? No Sun, No Soil, but Lots of Data - jelliclesfarm
https://fortune.com/2019/09/05/future-farming-vertical-sun-soil-data-aerofarms/
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thiccly
The condescending attitude is troubling me

"Rosenberg said that farmers usually apply fertilizer once, water the crop and
hope it grows. AeroFarms, meanwhile, applies fertilizers many times, adjusting
along the way to optimize plant growth"

Not true. Most farmers I grew up around follow the recommended fertilization
guidelines provided by their local coop, it's not a one time and "hope it
grows" thing.

“I’ve learned how ignorant we are about how to make plants grow.”

Who is we? People who use "we" like this always use it to assume and judge
things they feel.

“A plant doesn’t necessarily need 10 hours of darkness,” said Rosenberg.
“Maybe it needs 10 minutes.”

Yes it does if the plant is photoperiodic. Many are.

“When you can really play with those environmental factors and all these tools
in a big data way in a farm the size of [a] building, it really becomes
illuminating of how plants react in different ways.”

Indoor and greenhouse growers have already been doing this forever. Welcome to
the club.

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bshipp
After getting my masters in ag science and spending a decade working in
hydroponics and field agriculture I am glad to see someone else identifying
the hubris here.

Multiple times a month I have to endure a pitch or presentation from some
upstart tech company assuming that all farmers are toothless hicks who just
need to be shown the light. I've had hundreds of conversations with growers
about every single one of the topics he thinks he's going to fix. The only
people swayed by his arguments are those who know even less than he does.

~~~
jelliclesfarm
I have had the same experience and I have given up trying to explain the
nuances of Ag to technical engineering type of people. I do really think they
solve problems differently and it’s not always compatible with Ag solutions

~~~
bshipp
One situation that makes a great deal of sense on paper and is very difficult
to effectively implement on commercial scales is aquaponics. In theory, being
able to produce both fish and vegetables should be a good value proposition.

In reality, instead of trying to balance two biological systems (hydroponic
plants and integrated pest management biocontrols) you now have to balance 4:
plants, insects, fish, and algae/bacteria.

Suddenly the farmers potential for very costly cascade failures increases
exponentially. If your algae dies, your plants die. If you fish die, your
algae dies. If any of your solutions to dying fish/algae/insects impacts
another biological system the whole farm collapses and you need to sterilize
and start over.

And yet, so many of the people pitching this idea wonder why there is so
little commercial interest in pursuing such an integrated system.

~~~
jelliclesfarm
Yes, you are right. Altho’ having said that, indoor/vertical/aqua/hydroponics
systems must include the entire supply/value chain and be decentralized.
Traditional models of economies of scale won’t operate here.

Aquaponics is an infinitely better system as it can be truly organic. It has
to be tackled entirely differently..lots of AI/automation for constant
monitoring and systems control.

Major expense in traditional Ag is labour. This can be optimized and minimized
with indoor Ag.

As an outdoor farmer, the control of variable factors in indoor systems is
appealing to me but I can also see how being risk averse is better. Small
indoor farms are better than the broad acre mind set we have with outdoor Ag.
Taking everything indoor except fruit and grains and fiber and spices etc is
very attractive to me. But a new supply chain and control of markets has to be
in place.

I am not even worried about energy long term as we would go nuclear at some
point eventually. Impending climate change should require us be mindful of
alternative Ag systems. I am particularly interested in saline agriculture. I
think it would be useful research.

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noetic_techy
It's my understanding that the biggest thing other than energy demands holding
vertical farming back is the lack of ability to grow staple crops such as
wheat, rice and soy. Sure you can grow plenty of low density high water
plants, but you can't feed the planet let alone a city on crunchy water.

~~~
jelliclesfarm
We can grow rice indoors. It’s from the grass family and we grow them in
flooded irrigated plains anyways.

40% of all food crops is wasted somewhere along the supply chain. It’s a damn
shame! I really hope our Ag and food systems change to reforest and rewind
existing land for carbon sequestration as we take a much larger percent of
food production indoors.

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MrBuddyCasino
That is some IYI shit right there. Gell-Mann, remember it.

Plants have evolved over millions of years under sun/soil constraints, and I
predict there will be 2nd order effects they‘ll soon become aware of. Not to
speak of the fact that artificial light will never be cost competitive with
the free thing.

~~~
bshipp
There is some value in certain conditions for some of the items he has
indicated. His most egregious error is thinking that no one is investigating
or leveraging them.

Generating specific taste profiles of fruits and vegetables based on inputs is
fascinating and very real. What is being completely glossed over is the
difficulty in creating a branded customer experience that permits any
additional value to be extracted from the effort.

For example, it's great you can make a tomato that has a unique taste, but
most customers who purchase a tomato want it to taste like a traditional
tomato, and those that don't really like the traditional taste of tomatoes
aren't going to try it because they already dislike tomatoes.

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ajiang
On a side note, indoor hydroponics is a super fun DIY project that combines
tech and gardening. Having a decent amount of fun with it, whole yielding
produce to cook every week.

~~~
_iyig
What’s the best way to learn more about it? I’ve been poking around the
hydroponics subreddit(s), but I don’t yet feel confident enough to invest
in/start making any equipment.

~~~
donclark
Youtube has a lot of videos around this. One of the things that I think Ive
read, but have not verified is that hydroponic plants dont have as much
nutritional value as plants grown in soil.

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gus_massa
The part they don't discuss in the article is the cost. Sunlight is free, but
you must pay for the electricity if you use LEDs. Water is cheap where most
farms are. So this can't be used to produce potatoes or corns or other plant
with a very low price.

~~~
bshipp
You're absolutely correct. There are very few situations where the benefit of
only using artificial light outweighs the cost of ignoring free sunlight. Most
hydroponics will transition with supplemental lighting, not exclusive LED
lighting.

EDIT:not only does sunlight provide energy for photosynthesis but it also
provides free heat for the growing facility, and in many locations heat is not
an insignificant expense. Even the choice of lighting (i.e. sodium vs LED)
impacts the need for supplemental heating and/or cooling as traditional
highouput bulbs are very hot, whereas LED is cool. In winter, that lack of
heat must be augmented by supplementary sources. But, on the flip side, LEDs
permit closer placement to the plants, offering additional lighting regime
options and don't add to the temperature when the facility gets too hot.

~~~
jelliclesfarm
Lots of work going on with Quantum/Nano dots in greenhouse tech. Mostly with
cannabis production because it’s the only crop that will justify the costs
involved.

