
Distributed Facebook replacement Diaspora pledged 2x the funding it requested - JayNeely
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/196017994/diaspora-the-personally-controlled-do-it-all-distr#name
======
jfornear
The eventual Facebook replacement will look nothing like Facebook in terms of
functionality. I wouldn't give a penny to a startup/project that positioned
themselves against Facebook like this. Any variation of an "Open Facebook" of
some sort is bound to fail.

Facebook's real problem is not user backlash from their privacy shortcomings,
but the future of social networking in general. Some visionary will beat them
to the future while they are busy milking the status quo.

This is not visionary, sorry.

~~~
inferno0069
There's a lot of things this project could do without replacing Facebook that
I'd still consider successful. Four people thinking hard about making social
networking better than Facebook for a summer could help "the eventual Facebook
replacement" be better than it otherwise would be, even if this project itself
doesn't turn into that replacement.

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cmelbye
_Pledge $1,000 or more

Get all of the above stuff, plus access to the nightly build server for
Diaspora, so you can check out our progress all summer!_

Huh? Wouldn't that already be public? This sounds like a cool project, but the
secretive way of doing things is worrying. If I wanted that, I'd use Facebook.

EDIT: On further inspection, it looks as if this is open source, but only four
months from now. Really guys? Is that your way of making this more open than
Facebook?

~~~
ube
My take on this is that they want to take 3 to 4 months of complete focus on
coding and design. If you involve too many people by open sourcing it now -
you could easily have a "too many cooks" syndrome and the whole project gets
bogged down by too many opinions and too much time spent on moderation.

~~~
ekanes
Sure, but they could always roll it out and say "The code is available, but
_fair warning_ \- we want to focus on getting this up and running before we
start reviewing suggestions."

~~~
ube
Really...so releasing in 3 months is not fast enough for you? If it was me,
I'd want to work on it for 3 months and during that time - talk to other folks
that are working on similar issues and have the code reviewed by some trusted
mentors. This is pure speculation on my part but I suspect they already have
that in mind...per their blog:

"...If you want to see what we are up to, we will be hanging out on the GNU
Social mailing list, as well as a few other places as we work on defining some
common protocols between like minded projects."

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abstractbill
From the video: "My mum won't put anything on the internet unless she's ready
to see it in a newspaper".

His mum is a smart lady.

~~~
joubert
I'm not disagreeing, but people email "sensitive" stuff all the time, without
encrypting it.

~~~
liedra
I travel a lot and it constantly astounds me how many hotels want me to email
them credit card details to secure a reservation. I had a hotel (in Spain)
_lose_ my reservation because I insisted on calling them up and reading my
number over the phone rather than sending it via email. Frustrates me
immensely.

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fjabre
Regardless of how you may feel about this team, this project, or the
_interesting_ name, it's at least clear there's some real momentum for an
anti-facebook social network alternative.

This group seems to have some good energy but I agree with a lot of others
about the name - they should definitely change it to something easier to spell
and say.

~~~
jacquesm
That's how I see it too, more as a sign of the times than as _the_ project
that will go and kill facebook.

Time will tell, good luck from me.

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anon-e-moose
Why is it called diaspora? Seems like a very emotionally charged name for
something that should probably have a neutral or fun name.

~~~
jat850
I thought something similar myself. The notion of diaspora doesn't exactly
conjure up warming thoughts, but instead someone displaced (of their own
volition or not) from their native homes. It is a very emotionally charged
concept.

~~~
celoyd
Judging by Apache and Gimp, for example, tasteless names don’t seem to matter
that much.

~~~
jat850
I respect your underlying point, but I can't accept your examples as
tasteless. Apache was named such in homage to the Apache nations (at least
according to the Apache Foundation):

"The name 'Apache' was chosen from respect for the various Native American
nations collectively referred to as Apache, well-known for their superior
skills in warfare strategy and their inexhaustible endurance. It also makes a
cute pun on "a patchy web server" -- a server made from a series of patches --
but this was not its origin. The group of developers who released this new
software soon started to call themselves the "Apache Group"." (from the Apache
Foundation website).

GIMP, while maybe a little less tasteful, at least is simply an acronym for
GNU image manipulation program.

Neither of those examples resonate with the same connotations as "diaspora"
(edit) to me. I can respect that the examples you listed might strike others
in that way, however.

~~~
celoyd
As you suggest, this is going to be a matter of personal taste. But to me,
naming software after an oppressed people is _prima facie_ gross. That kind of
homage is patronizing by default. We don’t have a Jew filesystem or a Tutsi
browser, however flattering they might be the minds of the founders.

I think it’s mostly irrelevant that Gimp is an acronym. As an extreme case, if
the initials of my descriptively named project happen to spell the N-word,
people would be right to question my taste if I ran with it. Obviously
“Apache” is not the same as the N-word, but you can see the point. It doesn’t
matter if the connotations in my mind are only wholesome: I’m assigning to
symbols that are already bound in outer contexts, and that’s dangerous in
human culture.

I’m not trying to be the political correctness police here. It’s not my job to
get angry on other people’s behalf – I’m not Apache or physically disabled.
But I would think very hard before calling a project anything like Apache or
Gimp, and to me they seem at least as bad as Diaspora.

Anyway, I do see how a reasonable person could hold your position.

~~~
jat850
You're making some very well reasoned points here too, and got my upvote. I'm
not sure if it's just being accustomed to Apache and GIMP as long-standing
products, or what exactly, but I don't get quite the same visceral negative
response to those names as Diaspora (or Jew filesystem or Tutsi browser).

I'm not out to be overly politically correct either, for the same reason - I
don't fall into the category of anyone who could actually relate personally to
the notion of diaspora. My personal reaction was negative, others here seem to
like the name plenty enough. To each their own in this regard.

------
seanlinmt
This actually sounds a little like what OpenSocial is trying to do,
<http://code.google.com/apis/opensocial/>

And there're already open-source implementation of this framework under the
Apache license, <http://shindig.apache.org/>

I've 'ported' java shindig to C# .NET but it kinda sucks going at it alone.
<http://code.google.com/p/pesta/>, <http://raya.codeplex.com>

I wonder why there aren't more people interested in contributing. Coz my code
sucks?

~~~
PabloCh
Isn't OpenSocial just a mere API?

~~~
seanlinmt
Yes, shindig is just the reference implementation. Oh yes, and
<http://code.google.com/p/partuza/> is a sample PHP social site based on
OpenSocial using shindig.

------
varjag
"We are four talented young programmers .." _cough_

Humble also!

~~~
clistctrl
The funny thing is as you get more talented you start to realize how much less
talented you are.

~~~
varjag
Amen.

I don't know, maybe it's cultural. In 13 years in the industry I never ever
met anyone who bluntly referred themselves as "talented programmer". And a few
actually had grand egos..

But good luck to them with the project anyway. I like the idea, just that the
opening line was sorta gross.

------
mortenjorck
My main concern for this is UX. I don't doubt that these guys have the
engineering chops to pull this off, but do any of them have a background in
usability? I hope this is factoring into their planning.

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zmmmmm
I like the idea but I don't like the AGPL. If their intent is really to solve
the problems they state then they should be aiming for as wide a distribution
as possible and, GPL should be good enough. If I can't host it & extend it
locally without fear of my code becoming (A)GPL then it greatly limits my
appetite for using the software.

~~~
Maro
If you host and extend GPL code, your additions become GPL. Stop spreading FUD
about the AGPL, please.

~~~
zmmmmm
That is not my understanding of the GPL. You only need to GPL additions to GPL
code if you distribute it.

------
ukdm
If you want to create a Facebook replacement you at least need a name you
can't spell wrong easily. Diaspora is not such a name, and there are several
ways of spelling it and it still sounds right, for example:

dieaspora dyaspora dyasporah

You won't say that to your parents and guarantee they get it right first time
when typing it in (although I guess that's what Google is for. Did you
mean...).

It's a hurdle, and one they need to fix if there's any chance of this being a
"distributed Facebook replacement"

~~~
anigbrowl
google googol googel googil...

Do we have to optimize everything for those of limited literacy or vocabulary?
I hope not.

~~~
glhaynes
You do realize 'Google' is a corruption of 'googol', right? :)

Besides, no: you don't _have_ to optimize for the unwashed masses. But if
you're making something to compete with Facebook, the most Unwashed Masses
site since MySpace, you probably should if you want to be successful.

~~~
anigbrowl
I do, and I was enough of a nerd to appreciate the inference when they first
launched, too :)

It's true that the value of membership in something like Facebook depends
heavily on the network effect (allowing you to easily find all your friends
there), and without a large community a project like Diaspora is unlikely to
acquire sufficient utility to be more than a curiosity. But I really don't
think the name will be a major barrier, either to ease of communication or due
to semantic association. I stopped worrying about this after we got past
questions like 'shouldn't it be W-W-W period com?' and 'what about people who
are afraid of spiders?' etc.

~~~
glhaynes
Hehheh :)

I do think names are very important. There's a naturalness with which Normals
say "do you have a Facebook?" that they don't seem likely (to me) to have with
"Diaspora".

I think that an admirable trait of nerds/geeks/whatever is that many can
easily separate symbols from their cultural meanings/connotations. We can
treat "diaspora" independently, understanding its subtly ironic meaning (most
of us don't think the Facebook diaspora is nearly as significant as other
historical diasporas, but we don't take a site's usage of this name to
diminish this history, either) but many would interpret such a 'flippant' use
as mocking their cultural heritage and the struggles of their forebears.

One has to know one's customers. And ain't nothin' offensive about "Facebook".

------
steveklabnik
What's most interesting about this is that this is as much money as they'd
have gotten from going into a seed accelerator program.

~~~
julio_the_squid
That was my comment, too - it's interesting how a program like Kickstarter has
become a viable alternative to something such as, well, ycombinator. Noted,
though that you're only receiving money here and not the other related
benefits, which can be substantial.

~~~
PaulJoslin
I would value the overall 'y combinator' experience and expertise as a higher
benefit than just the money in the program.

Even if I had an idea which I could self fund, I would still consider applying
to Y Combinator, as the experience and networking you would receive would
definitely benefit a project greatly.

The only thing that gets on my wick a bit about Kick-starter is that the
funders essentially get nothing (other than see the product get created). I.E.
This product could go on to be valued at millions and you're initial $1000
contribution to the seed funding would be unrewarded.

~~~
steveklabnik
Absolutely. My startup went through AlphaLab, and the connections and
mentoring was worth quite a bit more than the money, BUT the money did let me
quit my job. Which is invaluable in and of itself.

------
figital
They say "you can do whatever you want with it" ... but then license it under
the AGPL. The name is funny but fleeting.

~~~
stevedekorte
The AGPL won't allow others to do anything they want with it. A public domain
license would. And a BSD/MIT license would be closer to a public domain
license.

~~~
igorgue
"public domain" is not a license.

~~~
MikeCapone
It's still a legal creation that acts as a license.

~~~
sp332
Not in all jurisdictions. In some places, you can never abjure all of your
rights (or responsibilities) as owner of intellectual property.

~~~
joubert
I'm curious, in which jurisdictions are you not able to generate IP that you
choose not to own?

~~~
eru
Germany.

~~~
joubert
so does this mean that nothing created in germany can be in the public domain
in germany / europe?

~~~
sp332
Yes. You made it, you own it. (Until you explicitly transfer ownership to
someone else.)

~~~
eru
And then you still retain the moral right, or something like that.

------
aditya
Sounds like an interesting idea, P2P file-sharing has worked pretty splendidly
in the past, no reason why P2P _oversharing_ couldn't work :-)

Project website: <http://joindiaspora.com/>

------
neilc
Monica Lam at Stanford has been talking about similar ideas in an academic
setting. E.g., <http://suif.stanford.edu/~lam/ibm.pdf> (10MB),
<http://mobisocial.stanford.edu/>

------
amohr
If you're asking for 10k from strangers, it might be a good idea to give your
3 minute video a couple of dry runs, maybe even (God forbid) WRITE out a
script. Divide it up evenly, and each person needs to memorize a 45 second bit
and film it over and over again until you get it right.

Obviously, not everyone shares my opinion considering they got 200+% funding
in two weeks, but I was wholly unconvinced, most specifically by the "why us?"
section - if you can't answer that question instinctively and convincingly,
then (again, if I were the one doing the choosing) the answer would clearly be
"not you."

------
jeffd
Where have I seen that logo before? ... <http://www.wallpaper.com/>

~~~
mortenjorck
Indeed, it's a bit derivative.

Though I can think of a few other places I've seen it...
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointer_(computing)>

------
apinstein
The platform for decentralized sharing of private data has already been built.
It's called HTTP and PKI. Glad to see that they're using this as their core.

However, they need to immediately purge from their presentation any ideas of
"server" or anything sounding so hard for an average joe.

I realize it's just a start, but if v1 doesn't have a "click here to start
your private seed" that's hosted on a cloud somewhere they are going to have a
hard time growing.

If your momma can't use it to confidently and securely share pics in < 5
minutes, it's a waste of time.

But it does look promising :)

------
warfangle
They say they have a rudimentary prototype up and running. When are they going
to post a github link for others to start helping out? ;)

~~~
ay
If you really want to play with something in the meantime, you can check out
the 6D: <http://www.get6d.com/code-on-github>

That is the most self-contained codebase I had seen so far out of the few I
studied (OneSocialWeb.com and DiSo-project.org do look more technologically
advanced, but they have more dependencies).

------
orblivion
The one thing that concerns me is that people will have to a) pay for the
turnkey service or b) know how to set it up and probably have to pay for
hosting anyway. People won't pay to leave Facebook. Maybe a competitor will
start an ad-based turnkey site.

~~~
3pt14159
I'll start a so-easy-your-ten-year-old-can-use-it if nobody else does. Free of
ads and everything.

~~~
orblivion
How are you going to pay for it?

------
ufomuffin
I don't see the ability to communicate verbally on any of them. I've seen this
before.

------
newobj
If they took 3 months to write a tool that would let you suck all your data
out of Facebook, that would be useful. But I'm guessing they're not going to
start there, because it's not sexy.

------
andymoe
They just raised another 10k. They should see if this guy wants to help out:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Frankel>

------
not_an_alien
This will not end well.

I'd love to be wrong, though.

------
puredemo
The name Diaspora has such a negative connotation.

It usually means you got kicked out of a place.

~~~
cema
Or it means you left in search of a better place. I guess it's the New
World/Old World thing.

------
puredemo
I don't really understand what they mean by 'nodes'. Could someone explain?

~~~
MikeCapone
Wikipedia is a good starting point:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Node_(networking)>

~~~
puredemo
Yeah, that wasn't helpful. I understand what nodes are in physical networking
terminology. But how do they apply to this social network?

~~~
mcantelon
Nodes exist in a network and, in this context, can share information (status
updates, social graph additions, etc. ) with other nodes. But these nodes
would control what information they share the Facebook model.

~~~
puredemo
I'm still not seeing how that would work. What does, "what information they
share the Facebook model" mean?

Can a user belong to as many nodes as he or she wants? Can a user run as many
nodes as he or she wants?

Is a node a real, physical thing or just a co-opted version of the networking
term?

What would it mean for an end user to belong to two nodes versus ten nodes?

~~~
crc32
Surely your "friend" can choose to run a node that conforms to the Diaspora
protocol, but also forwards your information on. How does the trust/privacy
aspect work?

You know, the same kind of friend that uploads photos of you drunk.

------
rektide
shit was at 75% less than a week ago, of the 10k it was requesting. talk about
a fast shift.

------
puredemo
More on the name,

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_diaspora>

~~~
eru
Or more generally:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaspora>

------
lionshare
bad name

------
c00p3r
They can grow up, test, evolve and promote their system in Harvard? No? So how
will they get users?

It is impossible to repeat the success of facebook (in terms of number of
users and popularity), same as it is impossible to repeat the success of
microsoft (in terms of market share). It was not just an idea plus execution.
It was mostly about being in right place in right time.

------
perpetuity
Dumb flash video on the funding page. If they can't get that right ... No $$$

