
Hello: A new social network founded by Orkut's creator - TheAuditor
http://www.orkut.com/index.html
======
jug
The social network I'd like to try is this:

* Funded by subscriptions.

* Free from ads.

* Since it is not ad dependent, yes, it can also provide a chronological timeline.

* Two post types supported: Text and Photo. Because sometimes a photo does tell a thousand words.

* Links to websites not supported in posts. Avoids viral proliferation of dumbed down politics, fake news, or stupid memes. If you want to get to the web or read the news, don't use a social network. They're here for you to be social. As in talk. Chat. Write things about your day. Ask others about their day. You get the picture. Being social.

* Shares or "retweets" not supported. Also to disrupt viral spreading of stuff that is almost never about socializing, and nowadays instead disturbingly often about wanting to be virally spread as a goal in itself.

* And finally... "Likes" not supported. You don't chat with friends at a café to get nods, right? You chat because you have something to say. If what you post is never commented on, yes, you can take it as a hint that you have little interesting to say. You can then choose to ignore that, or not. Comments, a will by others to interact, were always the true "like" anyway. If you write to be "liked", as many on Facebook do, you write for the wrong reasons, at least on a SOCIAL network.

Since it is funded by subscriptions, it ought to lift the quality by this fact
alone. Less shitposting. I guess one might say I want a social network. I have
yet to see one that is just a social network.

~~~
wenc
> Funded by subscriptions

This sounds like it _might_ be a good idea because it _seems_ like it would
remove the incentive to monetize personal information, but in practice it
creates a barrier to adoption and makes the social network kinda useless.

I joined a subscription-based social network that was designed for expats [1].
It was by all-accounts well-designed, well-managed and had everything going
for it. But no one in my circles are part of it, and the event lists were
really thin because the network was really thin (and I live in one of the
largest cities in the U.S.). It does "work" for some definitions of work, but
it isn't very successful (though there seems to be enough people on it to make
it sustainable--I wonder about retention rates past year 1).

I suspect the things on your list were conceived based on your circumscribed
experiences and are not what the general market really wants. It could work in
a more niche setting, but you'd have a hard time scaling the business model.

[1] [https://www.internations.org/](https://www.internations.org/)

~~~
daveFNbuck
A subscription doesn't necessarily have to be a barrier to new users. You
could offer basic functionality for free with a subscription to unlock extra
features. This sort of model has been very successful in other areas.

~~~
wenc
The freemium model is exactly what Internations uses. It's free to join but
you have to pay to unlock certain features [1]. Unfortunately the market
already has free alternatives (e.g. Meetup.com, Eventbrite, Slack.com etc.)
that are more mainstream, have a larger inventory of events and people
(network effect again), and that work better so it's pretty hard to provide a
sufficiently differentiated product worth paying for.

[1]
[https://www.internations.org/support/faq/membership](https://www.internations.org/support/faq/membership)

~~~
daveFNbuck
It looks like Internations locks up basic functionality rather than bonus
features. You can't have much of a social network if you can't "join groups
and attend their activities"

------
deanclatworthy
Whilst the founder has credibility in this space, I don't see what the problem
is they are solving. There are many communities all across the internet, and
also in centralised places like Facebook & reddit. Forums still remain hugely
popular for niche community operators.

The only way social is going to work and be improved going forward is through
decentralisation and taking our data out of the hands of a central repository
where it can be used to target us, and is more vulnerable to breaches. Once we
have that baseline the other problems can be solved by the communities
themselves.

~~~
rubyfan
I don’t understand the decentralized part of your comment. There’s a reason
Facebook and perhaps AOL before it was successful - it’s easy and everyone is
there.

I’m a huge privacy advocate but the decentralized Facebook alternatives are a
little wonky for most to get their heads around. Jane Average user could care
less about blockchain hosted personal data. In most cases Jane just wants
Facebook and is a little worried about what’s happening to her data. Facebook
maybe more than any other alternative is in the best position to solve the
user problem here.

~~~
gliboc
Decentralized is the only way to know for sure your data is not being treated
server-side against your wishes. This will certainly be the future of the
social internet.

However, blockchain is absolutely not the only decentralization support, and
might be the worst candidate to store data ever. If your comment about that
was not a joke, then maybe you should actualize your knowledge on
decentralized algorithms (for example, strong consensus as in the blockchain
can be achieved using stellar consensus protocol, and many decentralized
services work perfectly using peer to peer technology - not only file
sharing).

Also, I find your comment about "Jane Average" quite inappropriate. Anyone can
understand it's bad to give too much power to companies whose interests are
financial. Moreover, it's inacurate : the current scandal and outfire against
Facebook mostly comes from "Jane Average" people, and not the technical
community who's mostly saying "we already knew it".

~~~
BeetleB
>Decentralized is the only way to know for sure your data is not being treated
server-side against your wishes. This will certainly be the future of the
social internet.

As a society, we are not even close to being there. There isn't a single
person I personally know who has decided to leave Facebook for this reason.

>Moreover, it's inacurate : the current scandal and outfire against Facebook
mostly comes from "Jane Average" people, and not the technical community who's
mostly saying "we already knew it".

Frankly, I see little evidence of this. It seems mostly coming from activists.

------
Communitivity
The founder has an amazing history, and the description of Hello is enticing
but vague of what differentiates it.

None of that matters for me though, because when I attempted to sign up from
my laptop I got the message 'Sorry, we're mobile only'. I see no compelling
reason to be mobile-only at full launch. Mobile-first for your MVP with early
adopters, yes that makes a great deal of sense. But when a company does a full
launch I think they should support as many of the major platforms as they can
(Windows, Mac, Linux, Android, iOS).

Also, I am not convinced that we need yet another social media company (YASMC,
"Yazz-em-see"?) that is centralized and will by necessity make money by
monetizing attention.

Cal Newport thinks social protocols are the answer, as he discusses in
[http://calnewport.com/blog/2018/03/20/on-social-media-and-
it...](http://calnewport.com/blog/2018/03/20/on-social-media-and-its-
discontents/). I agree. I worked on this as the OASIS XDI technical committee
co-chair for a while, and am working on something new now.

~~~
ocdtrekkie
Yeah, as someone who carries neither iOS or Android devices, app only social
networks won't ever pick me up.

~~~
dorfsmay
It's worse... Once you've signed up through mobile, you can use it from any
browser. Makes you wonder why it wants you to sign up on mobile... Wants your
phone number? Wants access to you contacts?

~~~
puzzle
A perfectly good explanation is deterring spammers.

~~~
ocdtrekkie
I recommend you check out what a click farm looks like:
[https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=click%20farm](https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=click%20farm)

~~~
puzzle
I know what they look like, but I also know about services like Sift Science.
I used "deterring" rather than stronger words for a reason. On a couple of
former teams, I had to deal occasionally with spammer scum.

------
tomcooks
> hello is the first social network built on loves, not likes.

Ah, ok.

~~~
truebosko
Game changer. Ugh, hate to be down on this product because I'm sure it had a
lot of work into it but ... this just feels so disingenuous

------
notheguyouthink
It's strange, in all this anti-socialnetwork craze, I'm craving a social
network.

As it stands, I love the concept of a social network. I want a platform that
facilitates at arms length socialization, because I'm rarely that in-person
social with most of the people I know. A social network fills that need
nicely. Yet, with that said, I don't want centralization or obvious control
over the information flow and ultimately how we think/interact.

I feel like a scuttlebutt[1]-like solution is the answer, but I think it needs
a bit more features. Like editing, web usage from federated platforms, etc.

[1]: [https://www.scuttlebutt.nz](https://www.scuttlebutt.nz)

~~~
pythonaut_16
I really like Scuttlebutt but there are still quite a few rough edges.

I don't really like that pubs work by me following them and them following me.
When I open Patchwork most of my feed for any given channel is filled with
notifications of people subscribing to that channel rather than actual posts.

But I do really like the adhoc, decentralized nature of it.

------
sidkhanooja
The service looks like a ripoff of Instagram (loves, not likes) and Reddit
(communities). What problem is the site exactly trying to solve? I had to
spend the better part of a month trying to hound my friends to use Signal. I
am not going to waste time for a service that's not even worth the effort.

~~~
romuloab42
Regarding communities, this was one of the strongest features from Orkut. I
remember having lots of fun hunting niches/bizares communities (and not so
much fun when I found out some communities I was part of got sold/traded, and
then got renamed to something completely different, mostly for advertising
purposes).

------
common_
Not sure why this has been posted here. The app is nearly abandoned and dead
at this point.

I know we all want alternatives to the status quo, but you're not going to
find it among a bunch of copycat services that haven't solved any of the
fundamental problems causing us so much trouble today.

------
thijser
Weird, there seem to be two android apps for it, one old one with a quite low
rating (3.3 / 5): [https://www.appbrain.com/app/hello-
com/com.hello.application](https://www.appbrain.com/app/hello-
com/com.hello.application) and one launched 3 weeks ago:
[https://www.appbrain.com/app/hello-
com/com.hello.network](https://www.appbrain.com/app/hello-
com/com.hello.network)

------
cocktailpeanuts
I hate to say this, but it's either a terrible landing page or terrible
product I'm seeing here.

I totally admire the effort to bring back Orkut, but I don't see any value
proposition that makes me want to try this out other than some philosophical
words that anyone can say.

In fact, I have never seen a product introduced in these philosophical ways
succeed. The only signal I get from this is that the creator is naive (No
offense, I'm sure the creator is insightful as he's the one who created one of
the earliest social networks in the world, but just saying that's not what the
copy on the website is signaling).

If you believe in "love, not likes", I would like to see HOW you implemented
it. Otherwise there are tons of social networks out there each with its own
twist in "connecting with people with similar interests".

Maybe there's more to the product than what the website says, and if that's
the case, you should show that instead.

~~~
johnchristopher
I wish the blog post had dates because from the comments I don't know if it's
the hello thing from Google, a relaunch or and old blog post showcasing
something that failed years ago.

------
jarnix
Honestly, I don't think I want to join any other free "social network" after
what happened and still happens at Facebook. I would be okay to pay for a
social network that respect my privacy and that would be limited in features
like status, photos and groups.

~~~
Slackwise
This is also a comically bad time to release yet another social network, as
you've pointed out with the current atmosphere surrounding Facebook.

------
unicornporn
> hello is the first social network built on loves, not likes.

I'm sorry, but this sounds like a joke to me. Loves instead of likes? Is this
the first thing you want to say about your born again social network.

> I designed hello to help you connect with people who share your passions.

Sound very much like the “Facebook has always been about helping people make
connections” mantra.

So, I guess it's Facebook with loves and mobile app only... Say what you want
about Mastodon, but at least it's a _real_ alternative.

~~~
emblaegh
I thought the same, but the portuguese version of the text offer a different
view:

> hello is the first social network build on _profound friendships_ instead of
> 'likes'.

So maybe it is a social network whose focus is people you really know well
instead of companies and random people? I dunno, it's still very vague.

~~~
arcticfox
I checked and you're right. For launching an entire product, they're really
dropping the ball in the _first sentence_.

I read the English to imply that the network is based on your "loves"
(passions, hobbies, goals) but the Portuguese makes it pretty obvious that's
not right at all. I have a hard time interpreting the English in any way that
matches the Portuguese version.

------
goshx
The initial release was in 2016. The post on the home page is from 2017. They
are all over the news today... good timing I guess.

~~~
soneca
Yes! I was doing the math from that _" 13 years ago..."_.

Anyway, it sounds like a very short time for something that was created,
became a such relevant part of my life and all my friends, then disappeared.

If asked from top of mind, I would say it was founded 20 years ago.

~~~
goshx
Founded in 2004, existed for 10 years. I believe this was the first mass
adoption by Brazilians that was noticeable worldwide, right?

I miss communities with names like “Eu abro a geladeira pra pensar” (from
Brazilian Portuguese: I open the fridge to think). I haven’t seen any social
media allow names and topics like that and present them in the same way that
orkut did. Orkut was all about communities in a way that neither facebook or
reddit are. They were part of your identity in the network. Those were nice
years.

~~~
soneca
Wholeheartedly agree. Maybe it is just nostalgy, but there was something
special in these communities that Facebook Groups and Subreddits just don't
have it.

I was part (in pt-BR): _" I thought it was ice cream but it was beans"_ and _"
I like coke without gas"_.

It is something about signaling your identity online that is less pretentious,
it takes itself less seriously than what you see today on Instagram, Facebook,
Twitter.

It also wasn't as vicious as the informal forums like 4Chan and some
subreddits. These take themselves _very_ seriously in conforming to the _"
let's not take ourselves too seriously"_ culture.

It is hard to determine if it was the product or the current overall internet
culture at the time that was responsible for this more healthy (IMO)
environment.

But having Orkut in my college years certainly made be a happier person.

------
behringer
Mobile only? No thanks.

~~~
chillydawg
More tracking metrics for them to consume on mobile, I suppose.

------
netrus
This is very confusing. Your landing page is available in German, but the app
is not available in Germany. Ratings in the Play Store are horrible, and
support responds to bad reviews in the wrong language (English Review, Spanish
response). The "download page" is 50% India and 50% all other countries. What
is special about hello? After 2min on the website, I have no idea. And if I
did not know orkut already, I would be soooo lost by the copy.

~~~
addicted
Probably because Orkut was hugely popular in 2 countries. India and Brazil.

India probably dominates the downloads due to population differences.

------
willart4food
So I got curious and download the app. Start setting it app and... lo and
behold the app tells me that I already have an account. Fair enough I tend to
try all new thing BUT . . . there's no way for me to log onto the account, the
one and only option that appears in the app is to create a new account.

LOL

------
b3orn
Previously on Hacker News in 2016
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12231101](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12231101)

------
corobo
With all of the news about Facebook hijacking content from mobile phones I do
wish all of these new social networks would come with a website I can use, at
least to test the waters

------
bigato
I tried Hello once it was launched, hopeful that it would be a viable
alternative to facebook which would gain traction because of Orkut's name. I
really tried to like it, but I gave up because it didn't have a way to find my
real life friends back then. I don't know about now. But when I looked at it,
it was all about connecting via shared interests, and apparently they didn't
want me to search for people by name.

------
projectramo
You know, no network is made for "hate" per se. The problem is that hate from
the outside looks like love on the inside.

You see this most clearly in conservative v liberal tribalism, but that
example is so close to most people you may not see it.

Even the most horrible "haters" feel they are protecting or preserving their
secularism/race/religion/political opinion etc

------
roadbeats
I didn't know that Google shut down Orkut. Why did they shut down a network
with such a large userbase? Was it focused on dating?

~~~
goshx
iirc, lawsuits and people started to migrate to Facebook.

~~~
soneca
iirc, it was just a business decision to focus on Google+ and other efforts. A
bad one in my opinion though.

------
bad_user
App not available on the iTunes store in my country, Romania.

I don't get why app developers feel the need to add restrictions like that.
Don't they need early adopters?

Also it's mobile only at this point. While I understand why, another app
that's supposed to increase my mobile addiction won't change the world and is
not going to win me over, sorry.

------
adrianwaj
One of the problems I've seen with FB is invisible followers. A whole bunch of
people, possibly very famous people could be following you and you'd never
know it. (same with IG)

There must be user-levels on FB, and FB might even be charging money to their
most privileged users for various rights you couldn't imagine. Even getting a
verified account could cost a lot of money, who knows?

add: actually I just imagined what rights they have: IP theft, made legal.

As soon as you upload something to FB and IG (a photo or text,) it belongs to
FB, right?

So say you upload a photo and some famous person likes it and copies it 99% of
the way, but _they have the permission to do that from FB_ then it's not
theft, right?

But there must be a guilty conscience otherwise why hide the famous person
from doing the following in the first place? It's a leaching mentality. You've
walked through the jungle and got some leaches stuck to you. Whose fault is
that?

------
have_faith
> The more interactions your contributions generate, the more likely you will
> become a persona leader.

> Each milestones, unlock rewards, and add layers of fun to your social
> connections as you venture through hello.

I thought we wanted to move away from gamified social interaction

------
cs702
Nowadays, whenever I read about any new for-profit social network platform, no
matter what their new twist is, my gut reaction is to feel as if they're
asking:

"Please give your data to _us_ instead of Facebook, Google, or the other usual
suspects."

------
beager
I think we are beyond the point where services can lead with being a social
network and succeed. Every service that supports multi-user interaction is a
network, and every network that supports personal expression in its
interactions is a social network.

A service that is, as this is billed, just a social network, with no clear
defining feature or problem it’s solving, is vapid and akin to the dotcom
bubble.

I’m finding that “social networks” should be a consequence of a product that
solves a real problem, not that product’s raison d’etre. And furthermore,
given the data collection/privacy zeitgeist of late, I’m of the belief that a
social network developing within your service is a liability.

~~~
igravious
Hear hear.

While I agree with your main points I would object to your objection that
someone can't launch a social network in and of itself. But I do think if
you're going to launch a social network you're going to have to tell me how to
differentiate your product from all the other products out there.

From reading the comments here I think a new social network needs to say the
following up front:

    
    
      - closed or open source?
      - centralised or decentralised? federated or not?
      - up-front fee, subscription service or paid for by advertising?
      - privacy policy, what is it? share with 3rd party?
      - is there an API? how granular is it?
      - what about sharing and following?
      - what specific niche are you aiming at or are you going for a general audience?
      - is your product aiming to be a platform?
      - how are you different from the incumbents?
      - mobile or web or native or some combination of the above?
      - in short, let me know your angle, and give me reasons to try you out
    

Frankly, for me, the fact that you started another social network and let it
die would discourage me from trying your new effort. And stuff like `stay
beautiful' strikes me as saccharine and inauthentic though maybe I've become
too cynical, clearly I'm not within the target audience.

------
zecg
Neat idea, it used to be called friendfeed. Facebook bought it and shot it in
the head.

------
tinyhouse
Orkut was much worse than FB regarding data privacy. I agree the author
doesn't explain why Hello is different and tbh he talks about himself more
than anything else.

------
NelsonMinar
Back in 2004 Orkut and Google were sued by Affinity Engines, alleging Orkut
stole their source code to start the social network at Google. The lawsuit was
settled in 2006 but the details of that settlement have never been made
public. [https://www.technologyreview.com/s/402902/did-google-
steal-s...](https://www.technologyreview.com/s/402902/did-google-steal-source-
code/)

------
cfv
So it's a mobile only, teen-centric social trinket that's also not available
at all on my country according to the play store.

Fuck that.

------
majani
Is there any successful social network that launched with a big splash? Big
launches seem counter productive in social. You have a shitload of random
people signing up, only to find that their friends are not yet on the network
and they leave disappointed. Seems like grassroots marketing is the only way
with social media

------
fataliss
Just want to point out that in their ToS, they specify that while you have the
option of deleting your User data, they are not responsible in any way for
doing so and can't guarantee that you deleting the data will actually delete
your data... That's a big no for me right there.

------
binaryorganic
You’d think that an app that had the foresight to ask which pronouns their
users preferred would not limit it to two options, or at the very least
wouldn’t require an answer.

Also strange that an app asking me for my real name isn’t being louder about
their stance on privacy at signup (given the present climate).

That said, it feels like mobile-only Reddit, but without the user base.

------
roymckenzie
The next social network I join will be decentralized with a heavy focus on
design and usability. Gtfo

------
iamthepieman
I know this doesn't matter as I'm a tiny minority but mobile only makes this
inaccessible to me. I have no compelling reason to have a cell phone plan and
this isn't going to be one either.

------
zouhair
Does anyone remember the Pierre Omidyar's "manifesto" on how Ebay is all about
what is good about human and that humans are mostly good by default? Can't
seem to find it anywhere.

------
mtgx
I upvoted because I'd like to see more competition to FB so people don't feel
as "trapped" to one network, but I see no reason why this would be much better
than FB privacy-wise.

------
GranPC
Why is the privacy policy basically hidden away?
[https://hello.com/policy/privacy/](https://hello.com/policy/privacy/)

~~~
HenryBemis
And who doesn't wrap their text? Is this a joke? Do they really want to make
it as unreadable as possible?

------
godelmachine
I loved Orkut like anything. They had this "Recent visitors" feature which was
super awesome! My second favourite feature was "Scrapbook"

When Orkut was discontinued, I was too sad.

------
zealsham
I find it funny how the app makers and founder talks about spreading love and
meeting people of similar interest but the app is made unavailable for most
west African countries .

------
sschueller
Still can't signup if not in the list of supported countries.

------
chaz6
I never could figure out why Orkut did not see the success that Facebook did.
Unfortunately this incarnation requires an Android or iOS app so it is a non-
starter for me.

------
akskos
Orkut is a finnish colloquial word for "orgasms".

~~~
blunte
It's the guy's name. Give him a break. There are a lot of names which don't
translate well in other languages.

On the other hand, having your social network associated with orgasms might
not be such a bad plan!

------
faitswulff
I feel like Facebook Groups and Google Plus communities have proven that
organizing people around their shared interests doesn't work very well.

~~~
scandox
Except on Twitter it does work and very organically too.

------
haloboy777
Not available for India. Great. Leave out the most populous country in the
world which has a long history with Orkut. I love this. (sarcasm)

~~~
asparagui
>
> [https://m.hello.com/en/download/index.html](https://m.hello.com/en/download/index.html)

------
lucasnichele
Please do not put something like a chat or messenger. I have 6 apps to
communicate, each type of person has a different channel to speak.

------
batat

      This app can:
      - find accounts on the device
      - read your contacts
    

Can I be social with someone chosen by my own, please?

------
jshawl
Bounced at gender binary selection as well as requiring a photo. Otherwise I
enjoyed the progressive on boarding experience.

------
appleflaxen
Is this a Google product, then?

It says he was a google engineer, but I get the impression he left. So this is
independent, right?

------
kseistrup
Google Play Store says “This item is not available in your country.” (Denmark)

Hello's loss, not mine…

------
4fath
not available in Turkey. By the way founder is from Turkey as he said in
motivation part.

------
hardasspunk
If it allows me to remain anonymous and does not tracks me, spy me etc. I am
down for it!

------
mmgutz
What makes it different? Not much info and I'm not going to download an app to
see.

------
hbbio
Just wondering: How did you (supposing Orkut reads this here) get the IP out
of Google?

~~~
raverbashing
I think you mean the Domain Name. Well, I think he just asked (and maybe
bought for a fee)

~~~
puzzle
hello.com used to be owned by Google, too. It came with the Picasa
acquisition. He probably just asked Larry for both. It's not as if he were a
random employee. Somewhere on the Internet I saw that Google might own a stake
(I'm a former Googler, but have no clue about any such arrangements).

------
ggambetta
The real question here is whether they removed the very inappropriate animated
emoji.

------
TheAuditor
One can't exactly understand the need for or the reason for this new product.

~~~
Cthulhu_
Because the alternatives are better? Because we need convergence? Because
competition is bad? For what?

------
arsalanb
And continues to remain blocked here in the UAE.

------
sriram_iyengar
Is this a real website or some click bait !

------
arthurcolle
this seems better executed than the aesthetic disaster that is ello.co, so
props to that

------
m3kw9
It’s Google, smelling blood

------
dbg31415
Seems to be US-only?

~~~
tfont
No. I put my complete +(country) and then the rest of my usual number and got
a text. However, the text that I received was from a US number.

------
dvfjsdhgfv
> Oh no, it looks like you're trying to access the hello app from your desktop
> or laptop (we're mobile only)

Good bye, Orkut! You didn't even give me a chance to convince me I should make
the effort of installing yet another app on my phone.

~~~
barce
When I read your comment, I immediately thought of someone using a web proxy
to find security flaws.

------
dahidahi1
Orkut was so popular in some parts of the world like India that I always
wondered why Google thought it better to shut it down. All those orkut users
moved to Facebook & made Facebook a hugely popular platform. I hope the same
does not happen with Hello.

~~~
startupflix
I am still trying to figure out why Orkut was more popular in India.

~~~
barce
It was really popular in Brazil, too. It would be cool if they just open
sourced it, or launched Orkut the 2005 edition with security patches today. I
would use it if it was web only.

~~~
slig
The 2005 version is pretty trivial: each profile has friends, a scrapbook
(known on FB as wall), and up to 12 pictures; Communities (forums) have topics
and topics have posts. That's it. Any junior dev can build it on Rails/Django.

The tricky part is scaling it. The original version as a .NET app and it
couldn't handle the number of simultaneous users.

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_o_
I am not going to any non open source social network again. If self hosted
even better. And no closed clients any more.

