

Ask HN: How to Motivate Unpaid Interns? - thewordpainter

one of the best luxuries we have as a startup in athens, ga is our access to UGA's 30k student body. we bring in 5-10 interns every semester at http://GoRankem.com (we have plenty more to choose from...), and best of all for a bootstrapped startup, the going rate around here is...nothing.<p>they're always super-excited when they come in, and despite telling them up front that i need self-motivated individuals that don't want to be micro-managed, the production tends to trail off unless i'm hands on and telling them what they need to do.<p>the best motivation i can point to is a former intern of ours busted his ass and we rewarded him with an equity stake moving forward.<p>what kind of motivation tactics of you used to increase productivity and get your interns/employees to try to best each other? any great ways to recognize great work that don't come off too cheesy?<p>-adam
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tokenadult
You are living dangerously with federal labor law if you are not paying the
interns anything at all.

<http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.pdf>

If your internship program doesn't meet the Department of Labor regulatory
test, you may owe pay to all of your interns.

A subsequent reply to the submission here said,

 _I really believe in paying interns if they are doing meaningful productive
work_

Well, that's not only a good idea, it's the law. Interns generally must be
paid if the value of their work to the employer exceeds the value of the
training program to the intern--which certainly appears to be the case
described in the original post here.

Anyway, interns who work without pay while possessing computer skills are
chumps. In the job market in my town, anyone with serious programming skill
can get a paid internship readily at a company with a genuine future--whether
that is a start-up or an established big corporation.

~~~
venturebros
Hmm that is very interesting! I had an "internship" a while ago. They never
set any fixed length. After a week goes by they tell me that I do not fit the
position. I thought "what position"?

According to that pdf if the internship was just a trial for a job then I was
considered an employee. At least that is my understanding of what I read. I'm
going to contact the department of labor and see if I am owed anything.

------
olegious
I had plenty of unpaid internships (college credit was my payment) but
motivated me the most was one on one time with my bosses- take them out to
lunch, have weekly 1 on 1s with them where they get to ask you questions. An
internship isn't about money- a smart intern will use it to figure out where
they want to go after college, build connections and learn from their
experienced bosses.

------
ch00ey
A couple years ago(my first year in Uni) I took an unpaid internship and I
ended up getting a job out of it. So, from personal experience I'd suggest to
do the following: \- Have them do work that will in turn actually teach them
things they want to do in their career. \- DO NOT make them do boring menial
tasks. \- Engage them in actual company decisions. (Just because they are an
intern doesn't mean they don't have good views) \- Get to know them both on a
work and personal level. (...or even offer being their mentor or introduce
them to people they'd like to be mentored by)

All in all, since you aren't paying the interns you have to provide them with
an experience that will be equivalent of getting paid.

Just my 2 cents though.

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bartonfink
If I were an intern, I would want to know, up front, what I was getting out of
the deal. I suspect your interns know they're not going to get paid, but they
should get something out of the deal. Are you giving them individual attention
and making an effort to build relationships with these kids? That's a common
benefit of an internship - connections. Are you giving them active technical
guidance, helping them develop as engineers? That's another common benefit. Is
GoRankem something I should have heard of that I haven't? Yet another benefit
could be brand recognition on a resume. Tales of one former intern who got an
equity stake of dubious value aren't going to set people on fire if you aren't
able to scratch their immediate itch.

If I were you, I'd figure out what your interns want and make damn sure I was
able to give it to them. Otherwise, you're going to get this tailing off
scenario where the interns realize they're getting a raw deal and just make
time until they get out.

~~~
thewordpainter
" I suspect your interns know they're not going to get paid, but they should
get something out of the deal. Are you giving them individual attention and
making an effort to build relationships with these kids?" absolutely. i'm
hands-on with everybody. even though their work may tail off towards the end
of their experience, the great majority have positive things to say after it's
over...in fact, many choose to stay in the loop of our progress.

"Is GoRankem something I should have heard of that I haven't? Yet another
benefit could be brand recognition on a resume. " probably not on a real
national level to date, but as i truly believe we can offer some of the best
'bullet-points' in town.

------
petervandijck
Code reviews.

Saying "Awesome job!" is not cheesy.

Don't pit them against each other, give them a shared goal.

Set them up for quick wins _as a team_.

~~~
thewordpainter
with you on that, peter. big proponent of the collective team effort.

when i implied pitting them against each other, i was trying to imply that
hopefully they have motivation to excel at their role instead of letting the
dead weight bring them down.

------
pkamb
Either potential equity or the potential to get hired.

Make that a stated goal for them, and have regular meetings/mentorship as to
how they're doing.

It sucks to bust your ass on the offhand hope that one day your boss will say
"you're hired!". It might not happen, and you have no idea. You get burnt out.
But if that's a concrete goal you can achieve...

~~~
thewordpainter
i encourage them to aspire to be indispensable. that's what the former intern
that earned his spot did.

i make sure their expectations coming in are understood. unpaid (we tell them
to go out and find part-time (or full-time) paid work if money is a
necessity). you'll come out with some great experience working with a company
that's taking shape. great opportunity to get three strong & unique bullet-
points on your resume (compared with the other opportunities in town).

~~~
pkamb
FYI, if one of the "expectations to be understood" coming in is that they
_likely_ won't be getting a job, tell them that straight up. That's what I'm
talking about. The expectation of interning at Microsoft or whatever is that
70% of the interns will be getting full time jobs. If that's not the case for
you, be frank about it.

~~~
thewordpainter
we're on the same page. they understand that the internship lasts a set
timeframe. during the fall/spring, it's just an externship to help them boost
their resumes. during the summer, they know it ends when they go back to
school.

i did a terrible job conveying it earlier, but i am very clear about the
expectations up front when i originally sit down with the prospective interns
to see if it's a good fit for both parties.

------
curt
I really believe in paying interns if they are doing meaningful productive
work (programing, engineering, design, finance). I made good money in college
as an intern and would never even contemplate working for free.

~~~
petervandijck
I'd work for free _immediately_ if I could be Steve Job's intern (for
example). I'm over 40.

~~~
curt
Ok yes there are exceptions. I'd do the same. My bad.

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sirwitti
perhaps see it from the interns point of view: you work your ass of and
get....reputation?, some contacts if you´re lucky...

a former teacher at university once told us students to only do interships if
we get something out of it. (money, reputation fame, whatever)

maybe you can offer them something they´d be excited about? martin

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grep
Paying them.

~~~
dbaugh
Seriously, just pay something even if it is only $10/hr or whatever service
student jobs pay in the area. Not every kid can afford to work free for a
summer regardless of the experience gained. Some people need to have a job
with some income. Thats why some less privileged students get stuck working in
restaurants and bars. Are you interns really not doing enough work to warrant
minimum wage?

~~~
thewordpainter
to a bootstrapped entrepreneur who has literally run himself into the ground
to get a b2c venture off the ground in a non-startup town, i can't afford to
pay. the situation is made abundantly clear before they step through the door
(and when i say door, i mean metaphorically because we don't even have an
office...we meet on campus) ... yet, we still have students lining up the
'door' to intern with us every semester cuz we're the sexy opp in town
(startup + music).

if i had the money/means/funding, i would have no problem compensating the
ones that were bringing value to the table.

this should lead to a subsequent thread though: how should i pay for students
workers when the CEO/company has no money coming through? as many credit cards
as i can get my hands on?

~~~
dbaugh
Okay I apologize then. There are tons of companies who can afford to pay who
don't. I think that a good way to motivate them is to give them a broad thing
to do and let them try to do it whatever manner they want. Make it clear to
them that you want them to be paid with learning and building up their skills.

