
Some thoughts on when NYC last opened new subway stations - jseliger
http://secondavenuesagas.com/2016/03/15/brief-note-opening-new-subway-stations/
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donretag
I am a NYC native that left for the warm weather of Los Angeles. The city has
a long way to catch up to pretty much every city of its size, but he has done
more in the past year than NYC has done in decades.

It is hard to critique the NYC subway since it does cover a lot of ground and
it is 24/7\. I have been to cities like Tokyo, and I still prefer the subway
(commuter and long distance trains is another matter). Only one company, one
fare, very simple.

"Can we add transit on par with European counterparts?"

Has the author ever been to Europe? The NYC subway is far bigger than the
London Underground. A really quick search found the following comparison:

[http://www.timeout.com/newyork/travel/infograph-the-nyc-
subw...](http://www.timeout.com/newyork/travel/infograph-the-nyc-subway-
versus-subways-around-the-world)

~~~
stegosaurus
That article is a bit odd.

It has a graph of fare prices which shows the LU as being absurdly expensive.

It is expensive, but not that much (about half). I've seen single digit
numbers of people using paper tickets, and most of those were probably
travelcards.

No-one pays the cash fare, we use Oyster (smart card). The cash fare has been
artificially inflated in price to force people onto the smart cards.

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yummyfajitas
Yet another clueless articles bemoaning the lack of investment in subways.
I'll just link to my previous comments on this topic.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10979537](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10979537)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10247109](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10247109)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11242655](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11242655)

The tl;dr; is that the costs for the MTA are 10-50x more than every other
major city outside the US. The solution is to shut down the MTA, fire all the
employees and bar them from ever working for any government agency again, and
and replace them with Spanish, or Indians, or Hong Kongians, or French
workers, all of whom who seem to be able to build subways at very reasonable
prices.

~~~
interurban
I highly doubt that someone who has been writing extensively about the MTA for
almost 10 years is "clueless".

You make a good point that the cost per km is exorbitant and needs to be
reined in, but comparing the costs of a 10-15 year old system to one that is
100+ years old is probably not the most accurate comparison.

~~~
yummyfajitas
The Budapest metro is 6 years older than the NYC subway. The Tokyo metro is
also 90 years old, as is the Barcelona metro.

High density rich cities like Hong Kong do it cheaper. Sprawling low density
cities like Delhi do it cheaper. Ancient systems like London, Paris and
Budapest do it cheaper. Shiny modern systems like Singapore do it cheaper.
Cold places like Malmo do it cheaper. Hot places like Mexico City do it
cheaper.

[https://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/2011/05/16/us-r...](https://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/2011/05/16/us-
rail-construction-costs/)
[https://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/2013/06/03/comp...](https://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/2013/06/03/comparative-
subway-construction-costs-revised/)

The question isn't why one specific city is cheaper than NYC. The question is
why _every single city outside the US_ is vastly cheaper than NYC. The only
place that even comes remotely close to US prices is _one line_ of the London
metro.

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ChuckMcM
One of the sad things about 'zero interest money' is that we aren't using that
to save the taxpayer millions by investing in real infrastructure
improvements. It doesn't help that infrastructure costs are the only
construction costs that cost more in real dollars today than they did 50 or
100 years ago.

~~~
yellowstuff
Agreed. Infrastructure development doesn't really play well given US politics
today. The right distrusts any non-military government spending, while the
left is more interested in entitlements and social programs.

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acomjean
Least you (NYC) have some big projects going on (long island rr to grand
central).

[http://gothamist.com/2015/11/04/east_side_access_photos.php#...](http://gothamist.com/2015/11/04/east_side_access_photos.php#photo-1)

All we have in Boston is a couple of new trolley stops in Somerville and even
that is in question. They stopped building mass transit here in the 80s. The
North Station South Station connector was killed because the big dig cost two
much, and despite lobbying from 2 former governors hasn't got off the ground.

Infrastructure is not popular. Though with more and more of us living/working
in Cities, critically important.

I always thought a heat map around cities with commute times to downtown would
be an interesting project.

~~~
TillE
That heat map should be entirely doable with just the Google Maps API, right?
That would be pretty interesting to see.

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legulere
Meanwhile in China:
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/SHM_evol...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/SHM_evolution_mid.gif)
(Shanghai Metro 1993-2015)

~~~
sehr
Are there any other visualizations like this? The growth of poor developing
countries into something resembling a modern one is insanely fascinating

~~~
ersii
There's one visualization [1] for the Taipei Metro's growth [2] in Taipei,
Taiwan/Republic of China.

[1]:
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e1/Taipei_m...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e1/Taipei_metro_history_map.gif)

[2]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taipei_Metro](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taipei_Metro)

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untog
The time has probably passed for this, but I did wonder a few years ago if a
New Deal style government program would have been worthwhile. Vast
unemployment, crumbling infrastructure... those two things could go a ways to
fixing each other.

~~~
13thLetter
That's what the stimulus package of 2009 was sold as. Then it turned out that
seven-eighths of it went to various government cronies or to allow states to
put off their pension obligations one more year. There were also, as I recall,
complaints that spending on infrastructure projects would unequally benefit
men over women.

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bobinator606
The cluelessness of this article is beyond words.

New York City has one of the most amazing transit systems of any city in the
world, and most of it is at least 100 years old.

By focusing on stops and forgetting to mention the dozens of large projects
taking place in the NYC transit system, he makes it sound like nothing is
changing.

Here's just a small list off the top of my head:

1\. new Penn Station

2\. Yes the 7 train to Hudson Yards

3\. Yes, the 2d avenue subway (which has been in the offing for 100 years)

4\. new East River tunnels

5\. new ferry system (including 18 new ferries announced today)

6\. new Select Bus Service

7\. new New Jersey tunnels

8\. repairing East River Bridges

9\. new tunnels for LIRR service to Penn Station

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awinter-py
As systems age they get bogged down with stale infrastructure. We need to give
our local governments political cover for hitting the simcity 'delete' button.
Until we collapse the pipes & tunnels that aren't working we won't be able to
build the ones we need.

A midwestern state is considering reducing their total highway miles based on
declining usage stats. This is a really brave stance considering the cultural
bias against it.

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Tech1
I live off the 1st Ave L stop (Stuy town). Take the L during rush hour and
you'll see exactly what I deal with every day.

I'm all for the 2nd Ave expansion, however I think that something needs to be
done about over-ridership with our existing infrastructure. As Brooklyn
becomes more gentrified, the L (and others) will only get worse. Queens, I'm
looking at you Astoria, is only going to get worse.

~~~
acomjean
And I think they want to shut the L train down for a bit to fix the tunnel
(Huricanne damage..). Thats not going to be good for anyone in Brooklyn.

~~~
andrewpi
Not just a bit: 18 months in both directions, or 3 years of single tunnel
shutdown. Pretty horrible for anyone who depends on that train.

~~~
cballard
I can't see why anyone living in non-JMZ Williamsburg would renew their lease
this year, unless they're biking regardless of weather conditions.

