
Apple’s iPhone 5s And iPhone 5c Sell 9M Units Over Opening Weekend - Pasanpr
http://techcrunch.com/2013/09/23/apples-iphone-5s-and-iphone-5c-sell-9m-units-over-opening-weekend-topping-5m-for-iphone-5-last-year/
======
terhechte
I was in NY for vacation during the opening Friday and decided to head into a
queue and line up for the 5s, suspecting that it may sell out quickly while
also leveraging the pricing difference between Europe and USA. This was the
first time that I lined up for any Apple launch (execept for the yearly WWDC
waiting line of course), and it was overall a fun experience, not only because
my girlfriend joined me there and we had breakfast while waiting, also, it was
sunny.

The 5s has been my first new iPhone since I got an iPhone 4 in 2010 and for
me, coming from an older device that didn't even have Siri, I am extremely
happy with it. It may be a moot update if you already haven an iPhone 5 (or
maybe even a 4s) but to me it feels like an entirely different device (not
only because I also updated to iOS7 at the same time, of course).

I really like the finger sensor, as it makes login a lot faster. Of course,
there're security issues here, but for me it is just a convenience method, if
people are able to break through this sensor, they will also be able to use
other methods to gain access to my data. I also look forward to apps that
leverage the M7 as I tend to do a fair bit of walking and running and like to
see at the end of the day how well I performed. I really like Siri, again,
this is my first time having access to it, and I already use it for writing
text messages, checking the weather, or creating schedules / appointments. In
general, the speed difference between my old iPhone 4 and this one is
staggering. This, of course, was to be expected, as the 4 was crazy slow at
times, but it still makes me happy.

All in all, for me, the 5s is a great update and I hope that the 'most forward
thinking phone yet' comment from Apple is close to the truth, as I again, plan
to use it for at least 3-4 years before updating again.

~~~
thechut
The 5S is my first cell phone. I love being able to make calls from outside of
my house and quickly and easily write "text" messages to my friends. I use to
have to wait until I was at work or at home to make a phone call, but now I
can do it from anywhere! I also love these app things, there is one for
everything.

I also can't believe I can just connect to the internet from anywhere, and
there are not even any tubes connected to my phone. How is that possible?

~~~
coldtea
You intend this to be ironic, but a proper perspective would be that:

1) 10 years ago this was way bulkier, far less convenient and more often than
not without an intertube connection,

2) 20 years ago this was absolute bare-bones and only for upper middle class
and rich people,

3) 30 years ago it was science fiction.

Now, a 20-something would of course take all this for granted. But technology
will have some surprises for him down the road too, and he'll learn to put
things in perspective when 2030 tech is 100 times more awesome than today's.

~~~
jiggy2011
Not sure about bulkier 10 years ago, the nokia 8310 was all the rage back then
and they were so tiny that people used to lose them down cracks in sofas. Not
to mention better battery.

~~~
coldtea
Sure, but that was a barebones model. I had the equivalent of today's iPhone
style things (a Sony-Ericsson P910 IIRC), and it was like 3 iPhones in bulk.

------
alexfringes
The article fails to mention that this significantly surpasses the most
commonly repeated estimate of 6M (made by Piper Jaffray).

Source: [http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57603553-37/apple-
expected...](http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57603553-37/apple-expected-to-
sell-5-6m-iphone-5s-5cs-this-weekend/)

~~~
jasonlotito
FTA: Analysts had predicted between 5 and 8 million launch weekend sales
across both devices

That is a link to another earlier article on Apple Insider discussing such
predictions:

"In fact, Kuo said in a note to investors on Wednesday that Apple will likely
ship 6 to 8 million new iPhones over the devices' first weekend of sales. By
comparison, Apple racked up 5 million sales when the iPhone 5 debuted last
year. Earlier in the day, Piper Jaffray analyst Gene Munster forecast 5 to 6
million unit sales, a more conservative number based on the prior model's in-
store launch sales."

~~~
ZeroGravitas
Notice that the higher numbers are shipped, not sold.

The iPhone 5S seems to be selling briskly, but how many 5c are still in the
channel after 3 days?

------
vor_
Remember all the naysaying? One story on HN claimed Apple had a "Windows 95
problem". Yet it seems that every time Apple reveals a product that tech blogs
are disappointed with, it goes on to set sales records.

~~~
kunai
First of all, this is an international phone. Second. there are TWO phones.
It's likely that sales figures are very similar to last year's marked-down 4S
and 5 sales combined, but if you count the delayed international launch last
year and combine the sales after all markets were opened to the net sales this
year, there's likely little to no difference.

~~~
badman_ting
I agree, Apple is doomed.

------
swombat
> _Apple’s iPhone 5s And iPhone 5c Sell 9M Units Over Opening Weekend, Topping
> 5M For iPhone 5 Last Year_

Not a fair comparison, given that 5S + 5C is two models.

It would be fairer to compare it to the sales of the 5 + 4S last year - which
were probably not 9 million, but certainly more than 5 million.

~~~
ZeroGravitas
As mentioned on the other thread, pointing to the official announcement, the
iPhone 5 launched in China on a different date, so it had 2 million sales on
its launch there.

So to get the real comparison you need to add first weekend sales of the 4S in
standard launch countries and China to that 7 million figure.

~~~
swombat
That makes the 9 million figure a whole lot less impressive. From 7+ million
to 9 million... but it's not that unthinkable that there could have been 2
million iPhone 4S's sold when the iPhone 5 launched, so that it could even be
a step down from the previous year.

~~~
sxcurry
Right, 9 million is pretty unimpressive, especially when you consider that
Blackberry managed to sell over 3 million last quarter. Major Fail Apple.

~~~
swombat
It's 9 million over one weekend, not over a quarter. The Blackberry number is
irrelevant in that perspective.

~~~
sxcurry
Sorry, I was trying to be cute. Major Fail me.

------
bane
So I had a few separate experiences with this over the weekend:

1) A friend stood in line for a few hours, got to the front, found out they
didn't have the color he wanted and left.

2) A colleague in another company got one and she immediately remarked, "it
looks just like Android!".

3) A neighbor returned theirs because they couldn't read all the low contrast
stuff on the tiny screen.

4) Another neighbor has kept theirs, but complains all the colors and things
are too bright and too loud.

5) Another neighbor went in to buy his, got some time to play with it, decided
he didn't like it and went and bought a couple Galaxy S4s for him and his wife
instead.

6) Coworker said he like it, thought the control panel and "slide away the
background apps" was great. Hated that the slide away the emails is now the
wrong way.

~~~
panacea
1) A friend stood in line for a few hours, got to the front, found out they
didn't have the color he wanted and left.

– At the Apple store I was at, Apple staff greeted people entering the queue,
asked them what they intended to purchase and gave them a card (reservation)

2) A colleague in another company got one and she immediately remarked, "it
looks just like Android!".

– You overheard a conversation in another company? Good ears. Extra credit for
"she".

3) A neighbor returned theirs because they couldn't read all the low contrast
stuff on the tiny screen.

– "Hey neighbour! I couldn't help noticing you aren't mowing your lawn with a
phone?!" "The screen was too tiny neighbourino!"

4) Another neighbor has kept theirs, but complains all the colors and things
are too bright and too loud.

– "IT'S TOO LOUD, HOW DO YOU SHUT IT OFF?? I'M BLIND!!!"

5) Another neighbor went in to buy his, got some time to play with it, decided
he didn't like it and went and bought a couple Galaxy S4s for him and his wife
instead.

– 'Hey Wifey, wanna line up in this 2 hour queue? Dum, de dum [two hours in
the queue pass]. Oh hey, we're at the front of the queue! Nah this sucks.
Wanna go buy some Samsung Galaxies? YES!'

6) Coworker said he like it, thought the control panel and "slide away the
background apps" was great. Hated that the slide away the emails is now the
wrong way.

– Your astro-turfing obviously disinterests you, as does your job and it shows
dude :[ Quit your job.

~~~
bane
> – At the Apple store I was at, Apple staff greeted people entering the
> queue, asked them what they intended to purchase and gave them a card
> (reservation)

Didn't do that at either of the two Apple stores I'm aware of (there are 5 in
my area), or the three AT&T stores my friends went to.

> – You overheard a conversation in another company? Good ears. Extra credit
> for "she".

Grownup companies sometimes do things together, not every other company is
your competitor.

> – "Hey neighbour! I couldn't help noticing you aren't mowing your lawn with
> a phone?!" "The screen was too tiny neighbourino!"

My neighborhood has a very active community message board and I know many of
the member personally from neighborhood events.

> – "IT'S TOO LOUD, HOW DO YOU SHUT IT OFF?? I'M BLIND!!!"

Here are the exact quotes

Neighbor 1: "I'm not a fan. Hate what they did to ical. The new icons look
like they are for small children (that i can get over). And the bright white
is obnoxious. What the hell did they do to safari?? I'm sad ... But im sure i
will eventually get used to it. "

Neighbor 2: "I'm not "upgrading" yet. Hate the font."

Neighbor 1: "Everything is bright white and hard for me read...feeling old."

Neighbor 3: "So far I actually like it. The calendar took me a minute to get
used to as well. At first I didn't like it until I realized you get a 5 day
shot when you turn it on its side. I can't figure out how to do a list view
yet - is there one?"

Neighbor 1: "I have light sensitivity issues (Astigmatism in both eyes - and I
also have cataracts - God I sound old!) so the bright white is just harsh for
me and not having huge contrasting colors is also hard on my eyes. Yep I agree
the one swipe to have controls is nice and I do like what they did with the
photos."

Neighbor 4: "Steve Jobs is probably rolling over in his grave right now..."

Neighbor 5: "I downloaded on my iPhone the other night, not a fan. But I
downloaded on my iPad earlier today, and I don't mind it at all. But it is way
too bright."

Neighbor 1: "Thank you for saying its too bright ... I was beginning to wonder
if it was me."

> – 'Hey Wifey, wanna line up in this 2 hour queue? Dum, de dum [two hours in
> the queue pass]. Oh hey, we're at the front of the queue! Nah this sucks.
> Wanna go buy some Samsung Galaxies? YES!'

Talked to him in person (he's next door). And that was pretty much the
conversation.

> – Your astro-turfing obviously disinterests you, as does your job and it
> shows dude :[ Quit your job.

What does my job have to do with this?

~~~
jasonpbecker
Minimally, the first point is wrong. Official Apple Retail stores all do this
the same way. Reservation cards were provided. It's possible that the person
while in line was informed they didn't have the color they wanted and left,
but highly, highly unlikely (unless they entered later in the day) that they
made it into the store and had to walk out.

FWIW, I did see a few people leave because the color they wanted was not
available, either to try a carrier store or order online and wait.

Also, 9M in sales and the huge upgrade numbers pretty much speak for
themselves. YMMV, but the anecdotes from your circle are not reflective of
what happened.

~~~
bane
You're probably right about the apple brand stores. My personal network didn't
relay it that way though. Time will tell if these are sustainable sales
figures. They are certainly impressive no matter what. But with a year between
phones, I don't think a weekend hit sales model is the best way to do things.

------
pinaceae
most frustratingly this is another datapoint that won't matter much in the
current slew of punditry aimed at talking Apple down.

just go back to the HN post of the 5s launch event and it's full of
doomsayers.

seems like apple is going against the very fabric that unites neckbeards
around the world - and is crazy successful. just like carmakers that stopped
catering to the tinkerers. here's to the crazy ones.

next week? we'll return to the usual apple is doomed because innovation and
open blabla.

~~~
pinaceae
and to illustrate my point, HN post, a mere 12 days ago:

Apple's Windows 95 problem. [http://blog.raavel.com/2013/09/11/apple-
problem/](http://blog.raavel.com/2013/09/11/apple-problem/)

"Apple recently unveiled its new iPhone 5s and 5c models, to a collective
“meh”. The stock sold off and is poised to continue moving lower. The market
is telling Apple that it is not innovative enough and that its need to do much
more, and within that lies the crux of Apple’s problem."

But yeah, a lot of comments, falling over each other in their collective
agreement. will that same random blog now turn 180 and consider it's failure?

~~~
erichocean
_Will that same random blog now turn 180 and consider it 's failure?_

No.

(Queue a half dozen responses about how Apple actually _has_ failed by selling
more phones than both Nokia and Blackberry last quarter in a single weekend.
Sometimes, I think people who think Apple is a failure are actually it's
biggest supporters, because really, who but those most invested in the
company's success are pushing for it to do better? You'd only call them a
failure if you thought they _could_ do better, right? So...tell me who the
Apple fanboys are, again?)

------
coldcode
Clearly they are going out of business. Not to mention only 200 Million
devices running iOS7 so far.

~~~
untog
Is anyone actually claiming that Apple are going out of business? This kind of
reflexive defensiveness doesn't really help anything.

~~~
rmrfrmrf
Um, _excuse_ me, don't you _realize_ that Android has been installed on
approximately 8 million _times_ the number of devices that iOS has been
installed on? Think of how many feature phones, Arduinos, and toasters have
all of the same capabilities Apple's iterative, piddly phone offering.
Probably more features, now that I think about it, since, like, I don't have
to _jailbreak_ my toaster to get all of the features I want.

~~~
untog
Mocking Android fanboys in a forum overwhelmingly dominated by Apple
adulation? I hate to use a Reddit/4chan meme, but _so brave_...

~~~
epo
Funny, I thought HN was dominated by Android fanboys. Perception is everything
eh?

~~~
venomsnake
Quote from almost a decade ago by a Linux fangirl - "I love MS products, but I
cannot stand their policies"

My perception is that here the situation is similar.

------
alecsmart1
This video sums it all up:
[http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oprUI6nupfc](http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oprUI6nupfc)

~~~
agumonkey
I couldn't watch it in one go... this is staged right ?

~~~
alecsmart1
Check this also. It's old but personally knowing fan boys, I know they would
act exactly like this-
[http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rdIWKytq_q4](http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rdIWKytq_q4)

~~~
agumonkey
I saw that when it came online, you can't prove the latest kimmel video's
honesty by using an older one. He also revealed posting fake youtube fail
videos so now everything he shows is questionnable.

~~~
untog
_now everything he shows is questionnable_

Everything he ever showed is questionable, he's an entertainer not an
investigative news reporter. However, pretty much all of these segments have
been real in the past, so I'm not sure why that would change now. They
obviously cherry pick respondents.

~~~
agumonkey
Fair enough. But how do you know the previous ones weren't staged ? Maybe they
weren't, it was a believable prank to compare a device with itself and see the
average person make up fantasy differences. But here it's an ipad mini of
twice the surface, and screen tasting ... I mean come on.

~~~
untog
What do you mean by staged? In a sense they all are- I'm sure they ask the
question to a lot of people who say "that's not an iPhone, that's an iPad
Mini". But they edit those ones out. They're not intending to portray an
accurate image of the American consumer.

~~~
agumonkey
Staged as in the girl licking is acting through a script.

------
yalogin
Nothing moves the stock like a successful product. I am glad they did not bow
to market pressure and announce more dividends or stock buybacks. Stock
buybacks are just dead money. They should instead use that money on their
business and not to satisfy investors over the short term.

~~~
adamlett
> Stock buybacks are just dead money

That is an oversimplification. Apple has more money than it could possibly
hope to reinvest in its core business. When that is the case, and when the
stock is undervalued as is the case with Apple, stock buybacks are a great use
of a company's cash.

~~~
yalogin
The point behind stock buyback is simply to assert some confidence in the
stock. Which means the market does not have confidence in it in the first
place and probably has negative momentum. Most cases I have seen the market is
correct. So even if the stock is bought back the increase in the price will be
temporary as the negative momentum will surely vaporize the stock increase. It
does not help anybody but investors trying to make a profit in the short term.
I have not seen a single stock buyback work. I would rather they throw money
at anything but this.

~~~
adamlett
> I have not seen a single stock buyback work

I haven't seen a single penguin in the wild, but that doesn't mean they don't
exist ;)

Berkeshire Hathaway and Teledyne are two companies I know off that have had
great success with stock buybacks.

Read this [http://observer.com/2003/04/the-brain-behind-teledyne-a-
grea...](http://observer.com/2003/04/the-brain-behind-teledyne-a-great-
american-capitalist/) for a fascinating account of Teledyne's story.

------
znowi
This is the glorious triumph of consumerism. Steve Jobs would be proud.

------
sidcool
5S is much more in demand than the 5C. Pretty good, I say.

~~~
arrrg
I’m honestly not too sure about that. Knowing the split between the two would
be very interesting.

I would imagine that they can make tons of 5c phones while the 5s may be more
problematic. So the balance between the two may be more even than it seems.
(Also, I would be really interested whether the 5c or 5s is the more high
margin device. I could imagine that at least for now the 5c has a higher
margin than the 5s – well, at least the 16GB 5s.)

~~~
partyanimal
Apple's pricier iPhone 5s reportedly outsells more affordable iPhone 5c by
wide margin

[http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/09/23/iphone-5s-3-times-...](http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/09/23/iphone-5s-3-times-
more-popular-than-iphone-5c-on-launch-weekend---report)

~~~
lh7777
"This makes sense since those who feel the need to buy a new device the very
weekend it launches are most likely the power users who want the highest-end
phone experience."

------
nt591
When I click this link I automatically download a file called widgets-
tweet_button.html.torrent

~~~
andyhmltn
[https://gist.github.com/gregclermont/6669056](https://gist.github.com/gregclermont/6669056)
\- It's being worked on. Doesn't look to be malicious at current.

------
supercoder
9 million sold. 47 were available in gold.

~~~
mikeash
Realistically, I'd estimate somewhere in the ballpark of 4,000, which is only
slightly less absurd than your joke. From what I've heard, Apple stores
typically only had ten or so gold units each available on launch day. That's
what it was at the store where I was, and I've heard the same from others.
Multiply that by the 413 Apple stores worldwide and... that's not very many.
Pretty crazy.

~~~
joakleaf
No, but Apple probably sold most of their phones via their web site and not
from retail stores.

Otherwise each retail store would have sold 20000 phones by the reverse of
your math.

So 4000 is probably not a very accurate estimate either...

~~~
mikeash
Even if 90% of sales were online, that's still only 40,000. An order of
magnitude or so of accuracy is all I'm shooting for anyway.

~~~
joakleaf
I am sorry, but I think you are assuming a little bit too much here.

You are guestimating that 4000 gold phones were sold in the stores based on a
10 per store rumored number you've heard and 400 stores. Then you guess that
retail is only 10% (another guess) and so multiply you original guestimate by
10 to get 40000 gold phones.

It's quite hopeless guesswork. We don't know the distribution of models in
retail or online. We don't know how much is sold online compared to retail. We
don't know how much was sold outside Apple's retail stores (by e.g. AT&T). We
don't even know the geographical distribution (i.e. higher gold-ratio in China
than US).

If we assume a factor 3 to 1 sales of iPhone 5S vs 5C based on
Localitics'report (1), Apple has sold between 6-7 million iPhone 5S. Your
40.000 number isn't even 1% of that, so I think you are an order of magnitude
off still.

[1]
[http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/09/23/iphone-5s-3-times-...](http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/09/23/iphone-5s-3-times-
more-popular-than-iphone-5c-on-launch-weekend---report)

~~~
mikeash
How are you assuming any less than me?

Of course mine is a complete guess. I make no claims otherwise. But so is
yours. So kindly cut the attitude.

~~~
joakleaf
Sorry. No atitude!

Just pointing out that it is impossible to guess, and that your _last_ number
constitutes less than 1% of the total estimated iPhone 5Ss sold.

~~~
mikeash
OK, I probably misread the tone in your first sentence.

It's easy to guess! Nearly impossible to guess accurately, though, I agree.

You're right about it being less than 1% of the total, although I disagree
that this makes the estimate absurd. I think it's entirely possible that the
gold 5S constitutes less than 1% of production or sales so far. I certainly
could be wrong.

~~~
demallien
The under supply can't be too bad though - I just checked on eBay, and 16gb
gold iPhones are going for around $1000. You can buy a TMobile contract free
for $650 online through the Apple Store. That's only a 50% markup...

~~~
mikeash
Man, does eBay's search ever suck. I specify gold, 5S, unlocked, and it still
gives me all sorts of irrelevant listings.

Looks like the typical price is around there, though. I do see some sold for
well over $2,000, though. I wonder if that means the $1,000 listings are
underpriced, or if those high-end listings just got lucky and found a few
suckers.

------
ChikkaChiChi
I wouldn't be so quick to start doing the Apple victory dance. A lot of people
waited to upgrade because the iPhone 5 was an iterative device and I have
several anecdotal cases where people I knew said they would wait for a 5S.

Apple has painted itself somewhat into a corner now. Similar to Windows
Service Packs, people are waiting for the second version of Apple products to
get it 'right'.

This isn't to say they got it 'right' THIS time, either. It just is what it
is.

~~~
k-mcgrady
>> "A lot of people waited to upgrade because the iPhone 5 was an iterative
device"

What?? The 'S' is the iterative product. The 5 was a new design and new screen
size and overall a much bigger update.

>> "people are waiting for the second version of Apple products to get it
'right'."

What was wrong with the 5 that the 5S fixes?

~~~
ChikkaChiChi
Based on Apple's existing precedent to 'revolutionize' phones to the average
consumer, I'd consider all the devices in the 5 generation to be iterative.

~~~
nicky0
Let's look at that.

2007: iPhone.

2008: iPhone 3G. Same phone but with 3G.

2009: iPhone 3GS. Same as 3G but a bit faster.

2010: iPhone 4. New case, retina display, faster etc.

2011: iPhone 4S. Faster, better camera and Siri.

2012: iPhone 5. Faster, new case, bigger screen.

2013: iPhone 4s. Faster, Touch ID, better camera.

It's hard to say any of those releases were revolutionary except the original
iPhone. All since has been steady improvement. And that's a good thing.

~~~
ryanobjc
yes, incremental innovation is still innovation.

The fetishization of "big bang innovation" is really bizzare. Especially
considering most of HN's startups are not really big bang innovation.

------
melvinmt
And... AAPL is +6.9% pre-market.

~~~
ctdonath
+20.17 @ 9:59 AM

------
kunai
It would be wise to post the official Apple press release:
[http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2013/09/23First-Weekend-
iPho...](http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2013/09/23First-Weekend-iPhone-Sales-
Top-Nine-Million-Sets-New-Record.html)

------
lawdawg
We need a country breakdown considering this launch included China (unlike
previous launches). That said, I'm assuming 30-40% in China and the rest
elsewhere still puts it as a great launch.

~~~
ZeroGravitas
Including China sales the increase was 29% (7m -> 9m).

33% China would be 50% increase in China (2m -> 3m) and up 20% (5m-6m)
elsewhere.

40% China would be a near doubling in China (2->3.6), and up 8% (5m->5.4m)
elsewhere

For reference, the smartphone market is growing at about 50% a year, in Q2
Apple's sales numbers rose 20% year-on-year and their share dropped over 3
percentage points year-on-year (16.6% -> 13.1%).

(These launch numbers assume that no-one bought a price-dropped 4S on the
launch weekend last year)

------
ksec
Could Some one tell me how these people game the stock market by releasing
news that are um, false or unrealistic.

I mean Analyst and Media, wanting to trash Apple for headlines has become
insane.

------
akilism
you'd think no one needed to line up at all seeing how the oversold the most
common estimate by 3 million phones.

------
jusben1369
It goes to show you just how hungry people were for change on the platform.
Next up has to be screen size which would result in a similar massive weekend
for the 6.

~~~
supercoder
This was just their minor release cycle, so yeah it will be crazy to think how
the 6 will sell.

~~~
mikeash
I wouldn't be so sure. The 4S sold over four million units on its opening
weekend, which is pretty close to the 5's five million, but way more than the
4's 1.7 million.

Personally, I'm deliberately on the "S" upgrade cycle. I started off with a
3GS, then got a 4S, and now have a 5S. I figure I'll let other people deal
with the bleeding edge, and I can get the model with all the refinements
afterwards. I'd be willing to bet that a lot of other people think the same
way. I don't doubt that the 6 will sell really well, probably better than the
5S, but it may not sell _vastly_ better than the 5S.

~~~
alayne
I think it's also a good idea to wait a month or so after release. What's the
rush? Let the first production runs go through and work out the kinks. So far
I have heard some reports of screen issues on some 5s models. With a new and
unusual part like the fingerprint sensor I'd rather wait a bit.

~~~
mikeash
Personally, my rush was that I needed a device with an A7 in it for testing
purposes. If it wasn't for that, I'd be right there with you and would have
just ordered online and waited.

~~~
alayne
That makes sense. I'm hoping the 64 bit simulator is good enough for now.

~~~
mikeash
It will be for almost everybody, as long as you have someone _somewhere_ with
a 5S to use for a sanity check before you ship.

In my case, there was some code dealing with low-level stack walking and such
that really needed the actual hardware in hand. Not a common case, to be sure.

------
Nux
There you go, more proof that most people don't give a shit about
surveillance, privacy and the lot.

Here it is, the one device that can create the biggest fingerprint database in
the world sold 9 million units in a couple of days. NSA must be jubilating.

Very "forward thinking" indeed.

~~~
snom380
You missed the part where the fingerprint is stored so it's not even
accessible to the OS and are never stored online?

Oh, but I guess the NSA has a back door and will manage to collect them all
without anyone noticing, right? Just like they record all the sound from your
phone mic and upload it?

I'm all against unlawful spying by the NSA, but give me a break.

~~~
logicallee
>You missed the part where the fingerprint is stored so it's not even
accessible to the OS and are never stored online?

I guess you missed the past 14 weeks of revelations. Either that or I admire
your dedication to believing general company claims in the face of all
evidence that this is not the status quo.

~~~
snom380
I didn't miss them, and I'd like you to link to the revelation that tha NSA
routinely collects data stored locally on iPhones with Apples consent and
involvement.

