
No handshakes. A bad economy. These car salesmen shifted tactics– and succeeded - adam
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/08/12/with-handshakes-barred-an-economy-trouble-car-salesman-tries-seal-deal/
======
Trias11
I tried to buy a new car and ended up not buying anything due to stubbornness
of salesmen.

I couldn’t care less about personal interaction with sleazy salesman and when
buying new car I just need the right price, not the sales dance done in person
and all this “let me talk to the manager” BS.

When salesman quotes me MSRP on my answer on the best deal - this is
conversation over.

When they stop treating customers like idiots they’ll get more business and
more sales.

~~~
wahern
It's not uncommon for popular models to sell at MSRP or above. That's just
supply & demand.

The dance is extremely annoying, though. I've leased 4 cars since 2011: 3
Mercedes and 1 Honda CR-V. I wanted to lease another CR-V, but the dealership
reneged on the price so we just went back to our trusty sales rep at the
Mercedes dealership who always comes back with something reasonable in a
matter of hours--not especially low, but no B.S. and no pressure tactics. The
Mercedes is of course more expensive, but after splurging the first time it's
hard to stop the cycle given the customer experience.

I want to buy something to replace our 20-year-old Civic. Probably not a
Mercedes, because of long-term costs, unless we buy over our current lease.
But it's really no fun dealing with typical dealerships, and the good family
cars (e.g. Telluride, CR-V, etc) are really popular and the dealerships know
this.

I recently learned that there's a boutique car shopping consulting industry
where you pay a few hundred dollars for someone to provide advice on models
(including family haulers, not just high-end sports cars), and then to solicit
and _secure_ offers on your preferred models. I might try that next time
around.

~~~
icelancer
Do you have any referrals or links to those types of places? I'd pay that
gladly.

~~~
wahern
I saw some names recommended in the leasehackr.com forums, but only the forum
handles. I haven't gone back to track down proper contacts. But that piqued my
curiosity and when Googling one of the first hits was
[https://automatchconsulting.com/](https://automatchconsulting.com/). I
haven't dug any deeper since then. The other recommendations else thread look
promising, too.

------
krackers
So what exactly is the new tactic? I scoured the article but they never seemed
to explain what the new tactic is, other than the phrase "working deals over
Zoom and text messages."

~~~
gwbas1c
There's no new tatic, it's just adjusting to a different communication style.

What boggles me is the lady who drove the Lincoln and tried the Wrangler. The
salesman should have suggested a different vehicle.

~~~
ggm
She wasn't ready but is looking to change carstyle. I think she'll have come
back, if he gave her a hassle free non sexist chance to enjoy the Jeep.
Telling a customer what she wants is a good way to make her walk, my partner
does, every single time.

~~~
gwbas1c
The Wrangler drives very differently than a Lincoln. They look awesome, but
they are the polar opposite of a luxury vehicle. Heavy, slow, loud, limited
towing, "outdated" manual transfer case... Makes sense for going off-road, or
for customizing, but not as a luxury SUV. (And my wife talked me out of one
twice! _)

The other Jeeps are just cheap crossovers.

_ I found a perfect 4-door, 10-year-old Wrangler to buy while I waited for my
Tesla, and then keep to take on the beach, but my wife decided she wanted a
minivan instead.

------
ww520
Car salesmen might have carved for the personal connection and face to face
deals, customers dread it. It's much better to have a impersonal buying
experience over phone and internet. No wonder dealerships adapted to the new
approach thrive.

------
pbourke
It was not mentioned in the article, but it seems like there’s also lower
inventory on car lots due to the slowdowns and closures of auto plants in the
spring.

~~~
galkk
Barely. The demand also went down, and thousands cars are stuck in ports [1]
and even on ships [2],

[1] [https://driving.ca/nissan/auto-news/news/suvs-on-cargo-
ships...](https://driving.ca/nissan/auto-news/news/suvs-on-cargo-ships-stuck-
in-the-ocean-as-u-s-ports-crowded-with-unsold-cars)

[2]
[https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=cars+st...](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=cars+stuck+ports)

~~~
pbourke
That was true a few months ago, but things have changed.

Many North American factories closed down or curtailed production in the
March-April-May timeframe. There was a rebound in demand as spring turned into
summer (which was a major point in the article), but the supply chain to
deliver the vehicles to meet that demand had stalled.

"growth in supply has yet to catch up to demand" (11 Aug)

[https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-
insights...](https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-
insights/latest-news-headlines/tight-us-auto-inventory-likely-to-hit-already-
depressed-car-sales-experts-say-59776691)

"Auto dealers in states with new virus outbreaks have a bigger problem: low
inventory" (20 July)

[https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/2020/07/20/...](https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/2020/07/20/covid-
hotspots-auto-dealers-low-inventory/5446996002/)

"The car shortage is a big story. Between people moving to the suburbs and
avoiding public transportation (so they need cars) and the factories having
shut down or slowed down due to COVID, we're running out of available cars."
(5 Aug)

[https://twitter.com/TheStalwart/status/1291110174879514628](https://twitter.com/TheStalwart/status/1291110174879514628)

------
9nGQluzmnq3M
No HN thread on car sales would be complete without a mention of this classic:
[http://www.dougsrepublic.com/PDF/carsalesman.pdf](http://www.dougsrepublic.com/PDF/carsalesman.pdf)

(I'd link to the original on Edmunds.com, but it seems to be hopelessly borked
with 404s all over the place.)

------
ggm
Two cars in a row on the line are not identical. Options and finish and engine
and suspension and extra and milage and maintenance history and colour and
metallic or plain.. the idea a car purchase is cookie cutter is probably as
flawed as the idea all ThinkPad are the same.

~~~
alexbanks
Weird how customers are able to compare models and purchase in almost all
other walks of life

~~~
pbourke
I’m buying my first pickup. These are not cookie-cutter vehicles. The MSRP is
a floor for sticker prices. Once you factor in trim levels, packages, engine
choices, etc there’s a continuous gradient that runs from MSRP to 2x MSRP or
more. When you have specific capacities for towing and payload that you’re
after, plus some other options, it gets complex. The manufacturer’s site did
not allow faceted search at the level that I wanted, so I wrote software to
scrape the inventory, parse the option codes and stick the results in a Sqlite
file so I could track inventory in the region.

~~~
alexbanks
My point is not that it's easy, or that having a guide is unhelpful.

My point is that the pretend song-and-dance of current car buying is
ridiculous and anti-consumer.

And lots of people don't have complex requirements for their vehicles. Size,
color, type etc. Which could probably literally be managed via an Amazon-style
listing.

------
asldkjaslkdj
While it's a terrible situation, it is endearing to see people think on their
feet during the pandemic. It would be nice to see some of these methods spread
and stick around.

It's nothing personal but I loathe negotiating and dealing with car salesmen
in the traditional process. I want people to get paid fairly without feeling
like I'm being taken advantage of.

~~~
ericmcer
I just bought a car and at a certain point during the negotiation I was
like... this is weird, subaru is gonna sell thousands of 2020 outbacks, why is
there not just a set advertised price.

~~~
gamegoblin
In most of the US, car manufacturers cannot sell directly to consumers, and by
law must sell through dealers.

Some companies, most notably Tesla, have come under fire in various states for
selling directly:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_US_dealership_disputes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_US_dealership_disputes)

~~~
jimmyswimmy
I agree that is how it works presently in the US. Nonetheless, parent's
comment is interesting to consider. Why is it that way? Why don't Subaru etc
just set a price, you buy the car, and be done with it? The answer is either
that it works better or that it's too hard to change. The latter explanation
seems facile; with so much money, people and tech involved, it seems likely
that the status quo would have already changed to having fixed prices.

Years ago, Saturn dealerships sold new cars at a fixed price. No negotiations.
I considered one and rejected it as the price seemed too high. Didn't even
talk to a sales rep. The current car sales regime nearly forces me to talk to
somebody, and then they can hound me until I buy or they give up.

It might be possible for car manufacturers to motivate sales through some
other means, but apparently this way works, no matter how sucky it is.

~~~
fountainofage
It really is that car dealerships are very wealthy and have a lot of political
clout. There were also early rulings that a manufacturer can't order a car
dealership how to operate - the basics of the case were that American
manufacturers were lending or outright granting money for people to start
dealerships. Those dealerships started trying to sell foreign cars, the
manufacturers said "no way", the dealerships fought back, and the dealerships
won.

Basically it's become a textbook example of the entrenched parties setting up
barriers to entry. They have lots of money, and are often active in their
local communities, so people generally like them.

Edit: basically, I'm saying it really is too hard to change because the law is
on the dealerships side, and there's a lot of momentum and status quo to
overcome.

~~~
cattlefarmer
I don't mean this as a joke, but I thought people generally hated car
salesmen?

Here in Japan, the manufacturers do actually set a recommended retail price
that is slightly higher that what dealers often sell at. Example using the
Subaru Outback mentioned up top, shows three available grades sold starting at
3,410,000yen. Roughly us$30k.

[https://members.subaru.jp/estimate_simulation/index.html?car...](https://members.subaru.jp/estimate_simulation/index.html?carm=legacy_obk&btc=BW0G01&tcode=BS9G5LC&mop=ABC&ext=1U&int=20)

~~~
fountainofage
They hate car salesmen, yes. But oddly enough "Family Jones
Chevrolet/Ford/Toyota/Nissan/etc." has been sponsoring the local little league
team for 20 years, so they don't have to do much to convince the locals to
tell their state legislators that "protecting" these "family-owned"
dealerships is good.

