
Zenimax Sues Oculus - highCs
http://www.zenimax.com/press/ZeniMax_Media_Inc._and_id_Software_LLC_File_Suite_Against_Oculus_VR_Inc._and_its_Founder_Palmer_Luckey
======
sillysaurus3
From the discussion on Reddit:
[http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/2655hh/zenimax_sues_o...](http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/2655hh/zenimax_sues_oculus_vr_for_misappropriation_of/chntzyk)

    
    
        Throwaway because zenimax is sue-happy and I work
        at id Software, and I don't want to lose my job.
    
        A while back there was an artist here who made
        some artwork for Valve's Team Fotress 2 Hat
        contest in their spare time. This artist ended up
        winning and received a large amount of money from
        royalties. Zenimax got pissed off that this person
        was earning money from what they felt like was
        "Their property". The rumor was that they were
        about to sue them, but ended up backing off. I'm
        not sure why.
    
        This individual left the company shortly after. I
        don't blame them.
    
        We've been loosing top-notch talent left and right
        ever since the Zenimax purchase, but more so after
        RAGE didn't do too well. We're alright now, but I
        really believe that this is no longer the place
        that it was when I started years ago. The office
        culture sucks ass, and unless you're keen to
        sticking your nose up certain people's asses, or
        have been here since the days when we could
        actually ship games, then you're not going to get
        very far.
    
        I think Zenimax is mostly to blame for this. Fuck
        them.
    
    

The moderators of /r/Games verified that the above comment is from a current
Id employee. The reason I'm crossposting it here is because it's an
interesting datapoint about the mindset of the people at Zenimax.

------
sillysaurus3
What a shortsighted move. Who would want to work for Zenimax after this?
Whatever Zenimax gets out of this lawsuit will be overshadowed by the goodwill
they've lost.

EDIT: Who would want to work someplace that will aggressively assert rights
over your personal projects?

Let's assume Carmack happened to work on VR within a Zenimax office. We're
talking about someone who created Armadillo Aerospace. If Carmack felt like
developing VR outside of Zenimax offices, he obviously could have. So it must
be true that Zenimax didn't actually help VR in any substantial way. Carmack's
VR development just happened to take place within a Zenimax building. And now
they're going after him for it, while playing it off like VR wouldn't have
existed without Zenimax's contributions.

EDIT2: What convinced me was a thought experiment: imagine Zenimax without
Carmack. Now think of all the ways that our imaginary entity could possibly
contribute to the development of VR. At best, our entity provided a building
for Carmack to pursue his personal interests in (a "mad scientist lab," as the
Complaint calls it). Maybe some marketing, but who would deny that the hype
would have rolled in regardless of whatever Zenimax did to help it along? Two
seconds looking through a Rift is enough to transform anyone into an
evangelist. The VR ball began rolling due to the efforts of Carmack, not
Zenimax.

So, let's say you're Zenimax. You have Carmack working for you, working on all
kinds of cool projects; whatever interests him. Choose your adventure:

\- Stand to benefit by the halo effect of having a living legend on your
payroll; a legend who gets the entire gamedev industry interested in projects
happening at your company. Attract top talent by virtue of the buzz, and a
creative's natural desire to be a part of cool projects. Your new top talent
goes on to create many millions of dollars of value for your company.

\- Try to assert control over whatever Carmack makes. Make it abundantly clear
that no personal projects will be tolerated by any employee on Zenimax's
payroll. Show the world that no one can work for you unless their sole
ambition is to be a Zenimax employee. Convince every young hotshot college
grad that it's a bad idea to go work for you. Lose whatever momentum you would
have gained by attracting top talent.

~~~
DerpDerpDerp
I would.

I don't understand why you're so surprised that a company sued after they were
turned down for a settlement from a company they gave a bunch of key
technology to under an agreement.

I don't find that behavior to be unreasonable at all.

~~~
angersock
_" I would."_

Then you're a sellout, and an enemy of labor. Enjoy your pieces of silver.

Had the tech come from a line employee, maybe--but it came from somebody with
a long history of helping others in the community, of developing technology as
a default idle process, and who basically invented the field.

That you'd honor Zenimax's position here is very unfortunate, least of all
because you'd be supporting the position that anything you do while employed
belongs to your employer, especially after a precedent is set to the contrary.

I'm not shocked that Zenimax is suing, because they're a bunch of money-
grubbing assholes and probably sad they missed out on the cash from the
Facebook acquisition. That said, I don't pretend for a minute that what
they're doing is anything other than that: being money-grubbing assholes.

~~~
DerpDerpDerp
According to the lawsuit filing (page 8 of the PDF linked above), Carmac was
researching VR at id under ZeniMax.

So yes, I think projects you undertake at work for money belong to your
employer, and that this is a reasonable standard.

> least of all because you'd be supporting the position that anything you do
> while employed belongs to your employer

My position is that work you do for hire belongs to the person paying, not
anything to do with side projects.

> 25\. In 2011, ZeniMax actively pursued that research, including experiments
> with various off-the-shelf headsets. However, none provided an experience
> sufficiently immersive and responsive to be commercially successful. A
> significant limitation was “latency” – the delay between a user’s movement
> and the corresponding change in the displayed image.

> 26\. By 2012, ZeniMax employees, including Carmack, had amassed valuable and
> confidential know-how and trade secret information about how to develop,
> combine, and optimize hardware, firmware, and software for an improved and
> competitively advantageous virtual reality experience (the “VR Technology”).

> 27\. ZeniMax planned to demonstrate its VR Technology at the E3 Convention
> in June 2012, using one of its leading brands, “DOOM 3: BFG Edition.” On or
> about March 7, 2012 – a month before ZeniMax obtained a prototype Rift or
> had any contact with Luckey – id Software’s Creative Director tested a
> virtual reality headset in ZeniMax’s offices using ZeniMax’s VR Technology,
> as shown in this photograph posted online by id Software at that time:
> [Photo Omitted in Quote]

(Pages 9-10 of lawsuit PDF)

As can be seen, ZeniMax was actively pursuing VR outside of Carmac's work with
Oculus, and hence his work on the Oculus project would fall under rather
reasonable IP assignments - see the inserted image of the contract clause from
page 8 of the lawsuit.

~~~
angersock
So, your examples show an issue that recurs elsewhere in that document:

> 45\. Luckey used ZeniMax’s VR Technology that he acquired through the FTP
> site and otherwise to create and promote the modified Rift headset.

> 46\. Around the same time, ZeniMax also sent cables and customized sensors
> to Luckey and disclosed – pursuant to the Non-Disclosure Agreement –
> additional hardware design improvements regarding optics calibration and
> sensor mounting.

I keep seeing Zenimax used (presumably) in place of Carmack--probably because
their arrangement was more "let the father of desktop gaming graphics do
whatever he wants", and it looks really good in this filing if it isn't him
but Zenimax and Zenimax employees.

My issue with your excerpt of 26 is that how to "developm combine, and
optimize hardware, firmware, and software...for virtual reality" is a
completely broad description _which can apply to any sort of 3D work
whatsoever_. It sounds impressive as hell, sure, but the fact is that tweaking
a shader on Ogre3D would fall under that category. It's stupidly broad.

By conveniently switching around when they refer to what--in other words, by
being lawyers--they manage to sound really damning when pretty much anything
would fall under their claimed work.

~~~
DerpDerpDerp
The point of my quotation is merely to show that as part of work activities,
research on VR was being done at id (ZeniMax) prior to contact with Oculus,
and that Carmack's work on the subject would thus fall under the IP assignment
clause from page 8.

Do you disagree with that analysis?

------
tptacek
Starting on page 20:

    
    
        57. On July 26, 2012, Luckey again asked for
        ZeniMax’s help with the Kickstarter video,
        specifically asking Carmack to provide a clip
        “talking about the Rift/VR in general/whatever
        else you think would be a great thing to have.”
        Luckey further acknowledged: “Your reputation has
        really helped the credibility of this project, and
        having that credibility in the video would make a
        big difference for alot [sic] of people.” Carmack
        declined Luckey’s request to appear in the
        Kickstarter video.
         
        58. At about that same time, Carmack advised
        Luckey: “It is very important that you NOT use
        anything that could be construed as Zenimax
        property in the promotion of your product. Showing
        my R&D testbed with the Rage media would be bad,
        for instance.”  
    
        59. Luckey replied, “I will make
        sure we do not show the Rage demo in the
        Kickstarter, but is there any chance we can
        mention support/show a quick clip from Doom 3/BFG
        Edition?” ZeniMax turned down Luckey’s request,
        instructing that Luckey rely on publicly-available
        information for Kickstarter promotional material.
         
        60. On August 1, 2012, Luckey launched the Oculus
        Kickstarter campaign. The funding target was set
        at $250,000. The Kickstarter page featured a
        five-minute video describing the modified Rift
        headset.
         
        61. In blatant disregard of ZeniMax’s rights,
        Defendants used ZeniMax’s intellectual property in
        the Kickstarter video. The video features multiple
        clips showing “DOOM 3: BFG Edition,” displayed on
        the modified Rift headset. The video also used
        “DOOM 3: BFG Edition” to promote the modified Rift
        by displaying, without authorization, ZeniMax’s
        logo for “DOOM 3: BFG Edition” as the first
        Oculus-Rift ready game. Further, despite the lack
        of any commercial agreement with ZeniMax,
        Defendants promised that certain backers of the
        Kickstarter campaign would receive copies of
        ZeniMax’s game “DOOM 3: BFG Edition” with support
        for the modified Rift.
    

Context: at this point, Luckey has executed an NDA with Zenimax, in writing,
with a "proper use" clause. Carmack has demoed the Rift at E3 to thunderous
response. Luckey subsequently, Zenimax alleges, shifted from planning to offer
"$500 worth of optics as a hobbyist package" to "launching a commercial
product". Zenimax has, it alleges, made overtures to Luckey for a joint
venture, but Luckey has ignored them. Then, after being warned by Carmack not
to do it, Luckey creates a Kickstarter that prominently features id games.

Could be ugly.

~~~
jsmthrowaway
I hope everybody who comments on this story reads the complaint. There's some
really damning stuff in there and some of the more damning claims come with
evidence, including Oculus demanding exclusive licensing of IP "shared by
Carmack" during negotiations (paragraph 77). That stands in contrast to public
statements from Oculus that ZeniMax contributed nothing.

ZeniMax knows that Oculus holds the stronger public opinion, for two reasons:
(1) people love Oculus, and (2) Minecraft fans are still stinging from
ZeniMax's trademark claims against Mojang re: _Scrolls_. Very good play on
ZeniMax's part, dropping a release and an extremely well-written complaint at
once. They want to control the narrative.

~~~
tptacek
The whole complaint is interesting. The tricky thing about citing claims about
ZeniMax's IP is that those claims hinge on the IP actually belonging to
ZeniMax. Oculus and Carmack may be able to make a case that the VR work
Carmack did isn't bound up in Carmack's work-for-hire agreement with ZeniMax.

But directly using ZeniMax properties to promote the thing while working under
a cloud of IP ownership uncertainty was probably not a great move.

~~~
danielweber
While Oculus surely shouldn't have used ZeniMax's stuff in their demo, and
should definitely pay some kind of damages for it, it seems like a small part
of what's at play.

Or is it supposed to show how fast-and-loose Oculus was with other people's
stuff?

 _Edit_ At least reading through the rest, and taking ZeniMax at their word,
it looks like ZeniMax has a credible claim that it's their software that got
the Rift working. But if true, it feels like there should be some discrete
evidence of that by looking at what's running on the Rift.

------
Arjuna
Here is a copy of the complaint [1]. Originally posted here [2]. Interesting
reading...

[1] [http://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/assets/4490157/1-main.pdf](http://cdn0.vox-
cdn.com/assets/4490157/1-main.pdf)

[2] [http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/21/5739086/oculus-vr-and-
its-...](http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/21/5739086/oculus-vr-and-its-founder-
sued-by-zenimax-and-id-software)

~~~
mbel
I was expecting Carmack's name to appear in the press release. I cannot say
I'm disappointed after reading the complaint.

The whole piece reads as if ZeniMax felt that it has somehow acquired
possession of Carmack's knowledge (or any other of its employees), which at
least for me seems to be totally absurd.

~~~
interpol_p
It's not that absurd. A lot of the VR demos used Zenimax games, and many of
the videos and interviews were _filmed right inside Zenimax offices_. Code was
written on Zenimax time and file transfers, emails for advice, and more were
made over Zenimax email addresses.

Carmack obviously re-wrote all code once leaving Zenimax, but there's a case
to be made that Zenimax giving Carmack free reign to work on Oculus while at
Zenimax significantly benefited Oculus.

Oculus agreed at some point — offering Zenimax a 2% stake. Zenimax asked for
more (amount not specified in the complaint). Oculus response was that the
"figure was so far out of the ballpark, we believe there is little hope" —
negotiations broke down there.

------
thirsteh
Zenimax is based in Maryland, and Oculus in California. How strange that they
filed the case in a north Texas court!

~~~
dayjah
I've noticed this trend also, I asked google and got this response from
wikipedia:

> An individual case often begins with a perfunctory infringement
> complaint,[31] or even a mere threat of suit, which is often enough to
> encourage settlement for the nuisance or "threat value" of the suit by
> purchasing a license to the patent. In the United States, suits are often
> brought in United States District Court for the Eastern District of Texas,
> known for favoring plaintiffs and for expertise in patent suits.[53]

Source:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_troll](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_troll)

~~~
kudu
That doesn't really check out. Surely, if they were forum-shopping, they would
have brought it in the Eastern District, which has a 57.5% success rate,
instead of the Northern District, which has a 40.6% success rate. (The
national average is 32.4%.)

------
anigbrowl
I originally thought (based on the text of the agreement between Zenimax &
Luckey, but absent the other details in the complaint) that Zenimax had a poor
case and would see the agreement voided on technicalities. But these new
details seem to show Luckey acted in rather bad faith from early on, which
makes for a very different case. Now I'm wondering if Facebook bought a pig in
a poke.

------
ChuckMcM
I did not realize that Zenimax was in such dire straits. Although after losing
its star coder I expect that made things harder for them.

For what its worth, these sorts of lawsuits come out of the woodwork when ever
a 'liquidity event' happens. From folks suing companies about to go public, to
targets of large acquisitions. Always interesting to read what they have to
say when they try the 'appeal to the public' angle.

~~~
thrillgore
Zenimax spent about $200MM on The Elder Scrolls Online, and they're expecting
to take a serious hit financially.

Of course they launched another AAA game this week and I can't say with this
news i'm particularly interested in supporting Zenimax financially in their
lawsuit.

------
newobj
Who puts out a press release announcing a lawsuit?

~~~
TheMakeA
A company whose chairman and CEO is a lawyer.

~~~
newobj
And, as I've learned after a quick Wikipedia jag, is married to Wonder Woman
and used to be CEO of FriendFinder! Which used to be the Penthouse Media
Group!

------
pyalot2
Filed in the northern district of texas, of course, where every other IP troll
goes to file suits. Really all you need to know about the merits.

------
kaonashi
This lawsuit reminds me of John Fogerty getting sued for plagiarizing himself.

------
afternooner
I'm really interested to see how this plays out. Zenimax definitely has a case
when you read the filing. So who knows, they may have some grounds.

------
jkaunisv1
It seems to me that Facebook would have found out about that NDA during the
acquiring process of Oculus, and are likely prepared to deal with it.

~~~
partek
I sense a multi-billion dollar acquisition of zenimax coming if the case has
merit

------
danielweber
Interesting: the URL no longer takes us to the announcement, and the link on
their press page supposedly to their press release is now broken.

------
bloodmoney
Lawyers lol

