
Tell HN: Things I Learned about Credit Bureaus This Week - pakile
Last week, 1 or more parties hacked my Equifax account, set up an account at TransUnion, and ran up charges on a cloned credit card in Brazil.  To resolve this, I’ve interacted with the FTC, police, card issuer, and credit bureaus.  Here’s what I learned about the credit bureaus:<p>1. Equifax has no escalation path for security breaches on weekends.
Even if a breach potentially affects millions of accounts, there is no way to report it until Monday.<p>2. TransUnion has no ability to investigate hacks or security breaches.
They can only generate a reference number for the customer to file a police report with. (Note that their top product category is Credit Management &amp; Protection.)<p>3. TransUnion and Equifax do not cooperate on investigations.
Despite evidence that suggests the same hacker was at work, neither credit union indicated any interest in even talking with the other.<p>4. If your TransUnion account is hacked, you will lose online access for life.
You will never be able to download your credit report from TransUnion again, and can only get it via mail.  For life.<p>5. Experian displays your mother’s maiden name on your profile page.
There is no way to hide this, obscure your mother’s maiden name, or select a different security question.<p>6. Experian agents cannot view support ticket numbers or track tickets.
Only a supervisor can access ticket numbers.  Of course, that means you need to talk to a supervisor…<p>7. Equifax and Experian are extremely reluctant to generate a ticket or escalate to a supervisor.
At Equifax, I requested to speak to a supervisor 7 times.  At Experian, the agent awkwardly tried to resolve a CloudFlare server error by asking if I was using Internet Explorer.  It felt endemic.  I did not sense this at TransUnion.<p>This experience has eroded my naive confidence in the consumer credit system.  The burden for prevention, monitoring, and remediation is borne almost entirely by the customer.  This doesn’t seem right.
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c4n4rd
I have no business dealing with "credit bureaus". I did not give them my
information or consenting for them to store my information on their system.

So, I have been told constantly to "correct" my information with them - FUCK
THEM! They bought/stole my personal information - I have no business with
them.

Call me naive, but I wish more people would not give a damn about them either.

When I needed a loan to buy my house, I spoke directly to the loan officer
face to face and told showed them all documents they needed and told them that
if they need to consider my approval based on "Credit Score", I did not care..
I showed them the mistakes and mis-information they have in my credit report
and -when he asked me to call them to fix it - I told him that I would not do
that because I do not consent them holding my information. Two days later, the
load officer called me to tell me my application was approved.

People need to do this more often.

~~~
bcg1
Thanks for your comment, my sentiment exactly.

Opting out of the entire thing is the best way to eliminate this scam. It is
absolutely stupid that in the US your financial life is dictated by an opaque
algorithm and an entrenched bureaucracy.

If you live carefully you don't need credit at all, ever, except for possibly
buying a house as you said. All other purchases... car, food, etc are easy
enough to save up for... and if not, just do without until you can. Such a
lifestyle sucks if you are used to instant gratification and living beyond
your means (been there) but you can sleep better at night.

If more people followed your advice we would surely be better off... even in
the circumstance of buying a house as you said, they will find a way... they
are after all paid on commission :)

~~~
rahimnathwani
"It is absolutely stupid that in the US your financial life is dictated by an
opaque algorithm"

It's not 'an opaque algorithm'. I'm assuming the US is similar to the UK, in
that banks/lenders use credit bureaus for access to data. That data is then
fed to the lenders' own systems for processing (to create a score, check
against certain criteria etc.).

If banks did not have such reliable access to your credit status and history,
they'd be less likely to give you a loan, and offer credit on worse (for the
borrower) terms.

~~~
bcg1
In the US, the main number that everyone is concerned with is the FICO score,
and the algorithm is a secret. Most lenders do not generate their own measures
of creditworthiness but rather just use FICO

Also even if you don't want to borrow money here is a list of things in the US
that are increasingly based off of FICO:

1) car insurance 2) employment 3) wireless phone contracts 4) copper phone
lines

I'm sure there are more... but you get the point I hope

------
totalrobe
You're not the customer. You're the product.

~~~
rglover
Bingo.

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stevewepay
The credit bureaus simply don't care.

I had my identity stolen and then bad information was mixed into my account
information. It took years to get things straightened out.

Even to this day, years later I can't do any online credit verification
because it has data mixed with it from the credit bureaus, and I routinely get
answers wrong because of this. But there is no one I can complain to,
especially for these online data tests.

The best way to get something done is to do a proposition in states that
support it, like California, and get a law voted in that forces better
behavior from the credit bureaus. Then, because California requires it,
chances are change will occur throughout the country.

~~~
anigbrowl
This is what the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is for. They probably
can't do anything to help in the short term, because their powers are
circumscribed by Congress, but you could try asking them how best to document
your experience in a way that would influence future rulemaking.

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brokentone
The credit system is one of the most broken things in the US economy IMHO.
It's a legal requirement / protected entity. One cannot legally get basic
forms of financial instruments without existing in the system -- and if you
have these financial instruments, you have no rights to limit your information
sharing with these firms. This makes it nearly impossible to opt out of, and
certainly impossible to choose which one you want to work with. As you've
indicated, all of them are terrible and you have surprisingly little recourse
to deal with issues or corrections. Until recent laws were passed, you were
not even guaranteed to be able to request what information they kept on you.

This is one of few things that I would love to help correct as a business
opportunity and a social good, but at the moment, the way the laws are
structured makes an EXTREMELY high bar to get in, and these terribly flawed
companies are highly protected.

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jaworrom
Anybody want to tackle this (seemingly large) problem that we have with credit
bureaus? I'd be more than happy to try and dethrone the credit bureau beasts
with a new, helpful, transparent service that folks actually enjoy.

~~~
AreaGuy
The best way to do this is to create a more accurate credit prediction system.
Underwriters rely on credit scores because they’re cheap, quick, and easy way
to triage risk. Credit scores are riddled with inaccuracies, but because risk
is difficult to model precisely to begin with, these companies are still in
business because they work decently well even despite the many errors.

If you could create a system using publicly available data that is a
statistically and meaningfully superior way of predicting risk, it would be
immensely valuable to the asset owners that are buying mortgages, insurance
products etc. that rely on credit scores. You’d have to get them to demand it
enough to change their underwriting guidelines (a morass of bureaucracy), but
once they do, you’d also gain some steady demand and a moat of competitive
advantage.

~~~
crxgames
Some payday lenders already have their own prediction systems in place using
scraped public data. The problem that arises is that due to regulation, credit
decisions cannot be made based on certain information. I'm sure this varies
across sectors of finance though.

------
jyu
Request a credit freeze or a security freeze from the credit bureaus. This
prevents entities from accessing your credit report without you lifting the
freeze.

This stops a lot of the low hanging identity theft cases.

[http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0497-credit-freeze-
faqs](http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0497-credit-freeze-faqs)

~~~
Splendor
In case it matters, a credit freeze will also prevent services like Credit
Karma from being able to access your information.

[https://help.creditkarma.com/hc/en-
us/articles/202041774-I-h...](https://help.creditkarma.com/hc/en-
us/articles/202041774-I-have-a-security-freeze-on-my-credit-report-Can-I-
still-use-Credit-Karma-)

------
raquo
> 5\. Experian displays your mother’s maiden name on your profile page. There
> is no way to hide this, obscure your mother’s maiden name, or select a
> different security question.

Not to detract from their incompetence, but still: never answer a security
question with a true answer. That's what password managers are for.

------
wyclif
I'm always sorry to hear these stories. I hope you'll write it up and blog
about it, if only to help other victims. Navigating the byzantine world of
credit bureau fraud is something many US citizens find bewildering.

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desigooner
Was it a CHASE card? I've seen reports of Compromised Chase credit cards on
Flyertalk [1] and a couple of them mentioned use of a cloned card in Brazil.

Edit: [1] [http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase-ultimate-
rewards/168257...](http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase-ultimate-
rewards/1682573-chase-hacked-again.html)

~~~
th0br0
It's a popular bank: [https://www.chase.com/](https://www.chase.com/)

------
ccarter84
Condolences and goodluck, I too would like to see a series of articles on what
you've learned, the conciseness of your writing is preferred to what I find in
publications.

As an aside: Guess it's time to put a credit freeze / lock on my record so the
scammers can't hijack things. Lame that the agencies can charge us for this
self - protective measure.

------
anigbrowl
I would welcome seeing this extended into a larger and more detailed article,
or even a series of articles. Usually I'm a little skeptical of complaint
stories because they often strain credulity but you seem to have approached
this in a patient and methodical manner.

~~~
SwellJoe
That's part of why the credit bureaus and banks in the US have such incredible
power. People tend to believe the calm and faceless large organization over an
angry individual ranting on the Internet. Surely, the law wouldn't allow
someone to be treated so poorly by corporations? And, yet...abuses are so
pervasive that I am gradually beginning to think even the most ridiculous
sounding horror stories about credit are believable.

------
gesman
Describe your experience in details and post it in public and visible blog.
Also twit about - in other words - let the whole world know about this.

With all the recent privacy buzz - this may attract necessary attention to
shake out this swamp.

~~~
joshstrange
This a great advice but it's a fucking shame that this is the ONLY resource
many people have against credit bureaus and large corps in general. The number
of times I tried traditional support to no avail and got a response to an
angry tweet minutes/hours after posting makes me sick.

------
adebtlawyer
Get a lawyer. You can sue them under the Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA).
That is the primary recourse you have, not customer service.

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comrade1
To Europeans wondering what this is, these are companies that track every
financial transaction of Americans in ways that would violate dozens of
privacy laws outside the u.s., and have become the de facto source for
determining credit risk, rather than a simple search of court records for open
or pending debt issues.

~~~
saryant
Err, Europe has credit bureaus too:

[http://aei.pitt.edu/33375/1/ACCIS-
Survey_FinalReport_withCov...](http://aei.pitt.edu/33375/1/ACCIS-
Survey_FinalReport_withCover.pdf)

Jump to page 31 to see what is stored by the bureaus in each country.

~~~
comrade1
I guess we're spoiled in Switzerland.

