
Germany shuts down illegal data center in former NATO bunker - bartkappenburg
https://www.apnews.com/be9947471fb74360b6cf9d1d2b535927
======
devicetray0
> “I think it’s a huge success ... that we were able at all to get police
> forces into the bunker complex, which is still secured at the highest
> military level,” Kunz said. “We had to overcome not only real, or analog,
> protections; we also cracked the digital protections of the data center.”

This sentence is the punchline. I'm guessing they mean they were able to image
the disks and capture memory while they were running unencrypted?

~~~
wongarsu
I imagine the physical protections were not trivial to overcome either. In
Germany you don't have to assist police as long as you don't actively obstruct
them. If they come with a warrant you can't shut the door in their face, but
you are not forced to open a closed door either. Normally not a big deal,
after a few knocks the police breaks open the door. The government selling off
bunkers with doors designed to withstand nuclear explosions throws a bit of a
wrench in that concept.

------
ryanlol
This appears to be cyberbunker/cb3rob
[http://www.cb3rob.org/](http://www.cb3rob.org/)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CyberBunker](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CyberBunker)

It's not exactly their first rodeo, but certainly the most significant
challenge so far.

FWIW I've hosted with these guys before and used their servers for scanning
the internet, they did not allow that.

~~~
silvester23
I'm surprised at how theatrical the notice of seizure is. Would not have
expected that from our usually exceedingly sober law enforcement.

~~~
Avamander
It looks incredibly fake. I wonder if there's a collection somewhere of these
real website seizure notices.

~~~
NeedMoreTea
Perfectly in keeping with current seizure notices. The current fashion seems
to go completely overboard with agency badging.

The couple of UK ones I saw crop up recently have a cliche "hacker in hat and
trench coat" silhouette on similar blue backdrop, in place of the Matrix world
map thing.

[https://www.pcmag.com/news/366221/feds-shut-down-
marketplace...](https://www.pcmag.com/news/366221/feds-shut-down-marketplace-
for-selling-access-to-hacked-serv)

~~~
Vespasian
Interesting that the Belgian Federal Computer Crime Unit has a unicorn in its
logo.

~~~
LyndsySimon
I believe that in heraldry, the unicorn is symbolic of courage. Maybe that’s
why?

------
ceejayoz
A few years back, they claimed to have withstood a SWAT raid.

[https://web.archive.org/web/20190427013216/https://cyberbunk...](https://web.archive.org/web/20190427013216/https://cyberbunker.com/web/swat.php)

~~~
borumpilot
That was in Holland, years ago. They too have been dismantled.

------
ivankolev
Yet again life is providing more "entertainment" than in the movies. Pics
please?

~~~
mitjam
Here are some pics also from the inside and a short video:
[https://www.rheinpfalz.de/lokal/artikel/rheinland-pfalz-
lka-...](https://www.rheinpfalz.de/lokal/artikel/rheinland-pfalz-lka-stuermt-
rechenzentrum-in-altem-nato-bunker-mit-bilderstrecke-videos/)

~~~
equalunique
I've been inside there. That glowing computer with many screens - I've stood
right there in that very same spot. On the wall in that room is a big map of
Afganistan, a place NATO was gathering intelligence on while the Soviets were
invading long ago. The pics show about 10% of the facility... I remember when
that datacenter part was still under construction, back in 2015.

------
equalunique
>The main suspect in the long-running investigation that led to raids on
Thursday is a 59-year-old Dutchman who authorities believe acquired the former
military bunker in Traben-Trarbach

I'm shocked because I've been given a tour of this datacenter by the man's
sons, whose mother is friends with my grandmother, and whom I have known since
a very young age. Like, the mother, the sons, my mother, my grandmother, and
me, all toured a 6-levels deep NATO bunker & the surrounding buildings. It was
an amazing sight to see. They did not talk much about what they were doing
there, only that it was meant to be a secure datacenter. Their mom was just so
happy that the father and sons were finally working together on something
lucrative, and that they had a place to live (the bunker & surrounding
buildings had a lot of facilities).

By the time of the tour, which was 2015, I hadn't seen them for several years.
Catching up, I told them that I had a career a US federal gov contractor
working in cyber security - to them, and I didn't realize it at the time, this
was probably a red flag. I wanted to talk a lot about cyber sec stuff, but
they seemed oddly quiet. Shortly after the visit, they went out of touch with
my family. The final connection we had was one Facebook account belonging to
the youngest kid - probably the 20yo one mentioned in the article. It seemed
odd to me that he didn't use his real name, but now I understand why. It's
been deleted.

These kids had an interesting backstory. Their mother was a black woman from
the Dutch colony Curaçao. She met the father sometime during or before the
90s. Their children were mixed race, and were never accepted by their
grandparents, who allegedly were Nazi-affiliated. The prospect of marriage
fell apart, and this single mother had to raise the two sons on her own.
Living in Westervoort nearby Arnhem, she met and struck up a close friendship
with my grandmother, who became kind of a surrogate grandmother for those
kids.

That NATO bunker is built upon a spot where Nazis would have used it during
WWII. I thought it was an amazing turn of the tables for a black woman who was
scorned by Nazis to now have a claim to it.

I had pictures of the inside of that NATO bunker, which was amazing to see,
but the iPhone they were stored on got stolen later that year. I wish I had
them. If I'm lucky, some combing through DropBox might uncover a few.

~~~
theonlyklas
>the iPhone they were stored on got stolen later thatbyear.

I wonder if that's correlated to the fact that you took pictures inside that
bunker ;)

~~~
equalunique
I doubt it. The phone was stolen in the US. Actually, it was stolen inside of
one of the nicest gov buildings in Washington DC, which itself is really a
shame. Most likley by the janitors, unfortunatley.

~~~
theonlyklas
Honestly, the fact it was stolen inside a government building in Washington,
DC makes me even more suspicious. You had some sort of evidence on that phone
that someone else did not want to see.

~~~
equalunique
That would make for an interesting story for sure.

The reality isn't so glamorous. The phone was stolen because I left it inside
of a restroom stall. The particular restroom was one that's very secluded.
Most people there didn't know about it, to the extent that, the only people I
saw there with any regualrity were the janitors whose job was to routinely
clean the place. Not sure what else to say besides that what you're suggesting
is extremely unlikely.

------
PeterStuer
Would you not need an even larger legitimate datacenter to hide the operations
of the illegal datacenter? I'm guessing the huge power draw from the grid and
the redundant fiber trunks going to an old bunker will draw suspicions that
somehow would need to be explained?

~~~
wongarsu
In principle all these bunkers are designed to be able to run on diesel
generators, in some cases for 10+ years. I imagine the power requirements of a
1950s communications bunker and a modern datacenter are not too far apart.

But in reality it probably doesn't matter, I doubt you can get a search
warrant based on "they use a lot of power and have great internet connection"

~~~
toxican
You reminded me of this story I read a while back about how an indoor pot farm
was identified because the heat from the grow lights melted the snow on the
roof and apparently in the Netherlands that was enough to get a warrant -
[https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/netherland...](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/netherlands/11402633/Dutch-
police-catch-cannabis-growers-after-spotting-snow-free-roof.html)

While looking for that story, I came across a wiki article about a similar
story in the US, although the police there used thermal imaging to identify
the farm from outside the home. That was ruled that constitutes a search w/o a
warrant in the US.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyllo_v._United_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyllo_v._United_States)
I would suspect observing suspiciously melted roof snow in the US wouldn't
violate the law like using thermal imaging would.

I don't know German law, but I could see how that _could_ get you a search
warrant if Dutch and American law are any indication.

~~~
Scoundreller
Thankfully modern indoor operations will be using efficient LEDs to avoid
those roof issues when you can’t vent all the time.

------
exabrial
“We had to overcome not only real, or analog, protections; we also cracked the
digital protections of the data center.”

This is a straight up movie script.

------
lucb1e
I can't seem to read this article, it keeps redirecting to
apnews://open?link_click_id=70xxx which of course gives an
ERR_UNKNOWN_URL_SCHEME.

Looking at the Wikipedia of Cyberbunker, I gather this is one of their
bunkers, but not the main one in the Netherlands.

------
voldacar
This is a real shame - among other things they had a great onion directory:

[https://web.archive.org/web/20190107132850/http://cb3rob.org...](https://web.archive.org/web/20190107132850/http://cb3rob.org/darknet/)

------
hakunaubongo
German news site "Der Spiegel" with images:
[https://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/darknet-rechenzentrum-
er...](https://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/darknet-rechenzentrum-ermittler-
beschlagnahmen-hunderte-server-a-1289056.html)

------
chrisMyzel
I grew up in that town (roughly 8000 ppl there) and would've never though
someone there is capable of this.

~~~
equalunique
It's a long story, but I've been inside that Bunker while they were setting it
up in 2015. The datacenter was still under construction. It was a magnificent
thing to see, and quite a surprise to find in such a peaceful little town.

~~~
chrisMyzel
thats so funny, its sleepy af there at the mosel river, perfect in the end to
do it. Very near to that bunker theres a (popular with dutch people)
recreational site on top of Mont Royal - guess they were making holidays there
first :) My mother told me Traben Trarbach is always selling properties out of
money issues

~~~
equalunique
It's just down the road from the recreational site.

------
mothsonasloth
This related video by Norton is quite interesting

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CashAq5RToM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CashAq5RToM)

------
Havoc
Who on earth sets up a shop like that in Germany?

Surely there are countries with more relaxed law enforcement.

Not that I condone any of this. Just surprised

------
x1ph0z
The future is wild, criminal corporations running data centres... I wonder if
anyone's hiring in Canada...

~~~
kjs3
Drug cartels in Mexico & Central America have been found to be running heir
own cellular phone networks. A rouge datacenter seems quaint in comparison.

------
pier25
So how do you connect a data center to the internet without anyone noticing?

------
tpmx
Related:

Gotta love the dutch data center mentality. :)

------
rbanffy
From
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CyberBunker](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CyberBunker)

"In 2002, a fire broke out in the bunker from which they operated. After the
fire was put out, it was discovered that besides internet hosting services, an
MDMA laboratory was in operation"

Wow

~~~
qwerty456127
I just hope this won't harm the actual availability of MDMA much. According to
my experience, an evening spent on MDMA together with wife, talking and having
sex (with help of viagra - erection is miserable on MDMA without it even if
you are perfectly healthy) is worth by orders of magnitude more than years of
psychotherapy or vacations. It's a miracle drug if used properly (incl. taking
lots of strong antioxidants before it and never taking it more often than once
in some months).

It also makes my arrhythmia-prone heart work like a Swiss clockwork, it's the
only substance that can stop a heart attack reliably, the substances the
doctor has prescribed me (e.g. propafenone) do nothing but make my heart
attacks much much more frequent.

~~~
umvi
> According to my experience, an evening spent on MDMA ... is worth by orders
> of magnitude more than years of psychotherapy or vacations

Are you saying MDMA is a good replacement for marriage therapy if you are
having problems in your marriage? Or that MDMA is (in general) one of the best
recreational activities married couples can do together?

Disclaimer: not a drug user.

In my biased non-drug-using opinion, sitting around high is a poor substitute
for having actual experiences with your SO. I'm trying to imagine later in
life what reminiscing would be like: "Remember all those times we sat around
high and had sex? yeah, that was great". vs. "Remember that Barcelona trip?
Yeah, that was crazy with the pickpocket kid..."

~~~
Strom
MDMA is a stimulant so it's more likely to promote dancing around than sitting
around. MDMA also suppresses social inhibitions, so you're way more likely to
talk about your feelings and dreams.

I also think you're setting up quite a bad comparison here. Why is it MDMA +
sitting around vs. awesome stuff at Barcelona? How about _actual experiences_
under MDMA vs. sitting in a hotel room in Barcelona? Ultimately MDMA just
gives you energy and improves your mood. [1] Whether you decide to do anything
interesting or sit around is based more on your character and less about
whether you're under the influence of MDMA or not.

\--

[1] MDMA is toxic at high doses and/or without rest. A good rule of thumb
would be to not do it more than every two weeks.

~~~
maze-le
I think a better comparison would be antidepressants. A common class of
antideps are called SSRI -- selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitors. They
have a similar mechanism to MDMA -- block the re-absorption of serotonin by
neurons, so more serotonin is available for neurochemical processing.

Stimulants mainly act on the dopamine system, although MDMA might act on both
systems: dopamine and serotonine.

\-----

MDMA is also quite toxic in long-term usage.

[1]
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3870191/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3870191/)

~~~
qwerty456127
> MDMA is also quite toxic in long-term usage.

As well as ibuprofen is. Whatever a drug (in both meanings of the word) one
should decide with reason when, how much and why take it. I can hardly name a
medicine which won't do any harm if you take it chronically or dose too high.

Even plain serotonin, which can be kept elevated by chronic excess of
tryptophan in the diet (let alone 5-HTP supplementation) is cardiotoxic.

~~~
qwerty456127
BTW I've chosen to mention ibuprofen right because it's harmless unless you
are taking it for too long. Nevertheless I believe its common alternative -
paracetamol (acetaminophen) ought to be mentioned as it's plain deadly and can
be considered much more dangerous (in terms of how easy it is to harm yourself
severely) than MDMA.

------
unclesams-uncle
It'd be hilarious if the EU hit them with GDPR violations, just to rub some
salt in the wounds.

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not_a_cop75
Has right to be forgotten taken over?

