
Facebook to Open New Artificial Intelligence Lab in Montreal - kimsk112
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-15/facebook-to-open-new-artificial-intelligence-lab-in-montreal
======
alexasmyths
Go Montreal!

But ...

It's just another way to transfer the exceptionalism of the local talent into
the shareholders of big American companies.

I know a few in the AI-crew in Montreal and some local government types.

What they fail to grasp is that we need 'companies' that sell 'products' and
'services' and have 'revenue' \- not just a bunch of shiny R&D.

A few AI jobs will actually have _zero_ impact on the local economy.

Now - if some cushy, ridiculous 'social network' were based here, it would
employ thousands, and have thousands of others supporting them in other ways,
they'd be paying taxes here, and forming a hub.

Unfortunately, AI may not be the best hub for an industry - as plain AI
doesn't generally make for good products. It's almost inherently a 'component'
type technology. It's going to go into 'everything' but the best positioned to
take advantage of it are those who already have leverage, i.e. Valley
companies, finance etc..

Crossing my fingers for Mtl though.

~~~
fsavard
Well to me it does seem, _at least_ , as though the recent surge in public and
private AI investments (Microsoft, Google, now Facebook) would have a positive
local impact for AI researchers here. I mean with enough momentum it becomes
self-sustaining with positive feedback loops: researchers have multiple local
opportunities, so it makes sense to stay here in Montreal long-term, companies
(even though they only need AI "as a component", as you say) have strong
incentives to establish AI labs here, AI grad students have local job offers
and don't get told they'd better leave for better career prospects, etc.

It's a bit early to conclude concerning the long-term "impact on the local
economy" as you mention, but I guess it can't hurt to shine internationally in
one more respect.

EDIT: I'd add also that there are quite a few AI-centered startups, where AI
is the forefront and not just a component, e.g. look at this:

[https://medium.com/@shivon/the-current-state-of-machine-
inte...](https://medium.com/@shivon/the-current-state-of-machine-
intelligence-3-0-e4d305da032e)

and startups certainly contribute to the local economy. A local ecosystem
around AI could foster such startups, I guess, so again not hurting.

~~~
alexasmyths
It's a positive development.

But I'm not sure really that 'startups' contribute to the local economy.

The _average restaurant_ has more revenues, and employs more people than the
average startup.

The real value of most startups in Montreal is almost nil.

The 'startup contribution' generally only happens when there are large,
incumbent, dominant entities that are formed. This is because of mass
employment, and all of this spin-offs. Particularly - 'large dominant
entities' are cash-flush and spend a lot on spurious acquisitions, etc. etc..

80% of acquisitions fail, but it still makes economic sense for big companies
to buy, as there is potential upside. Without cash-flush behemoths, startups
have nowhere to park - either they do an IPO or stay private forever - which
is fine, but it's not generally how the ecosystem works well.

Bombardier, based in Montreal - employs 66 000 people (!!!).

$16 Billion in revenue.

So, just a 1% change in their head-count = all of the startups in Montreal.

If Bombardier secured a decent set of contracts for their mid-sized Jet -
that's a definite boon for Montreal.

AI 'revenues' in Montreal ... I don't think have come close to exceeding the
investment the provide/feds have made in it.

I think they will break even on it, but we need companies, not tech.

~~~
fsavard
Concerning the contribution of startups, I don't have much hard numbers, but
my comment was motivated by this article I recalled reading:

[http://affaires.lapresse.ca/economie/201611/10/01-5039742-le...](http://affaires.lapresse.ca/economie/201611/10/01-5039742-les-
start-up-generent-plus-de-10-000-emplois-a-montreal.php)

which states that Montreal startups (by their definition) employ around 10,000
people. Of course those behind that study - local "startup scene" people and
governmental instances - would have some incentive to inflate the numbers, but
still, it seems larger than what you assume (1% of 66000 ~= 600 - 700 jobs).
It's not Bombardier, but it's not negligible either.

I'm not sure what to say about your larger point, because I'm not sure if
you're advocating something in particular. Are you saying it would be better
if Facebook, Google etc. didn't open labs here, e.g. to avoid competition for
local AI specialists? Or maybe you're just drawing attention to that drawback.
In any case, I'd just say I'd hope it's not a zero-sum game. With better
opportunities, the pool enlarges because 1) people come from abroad and 2) it
makes sense for local people to specialize (e.g. pursue a PhD) in that
direction.

------
j7ake
What this does is ensure any intellectual property from Montreal talent
(mostly from academia) will directly go to an American company rather than
staying within Canadian labs and start ups

------
hellofunk
It would seem the rumors are true, Montreal is becoming a global headquarters
for the golden age of artificial intelligence.

~~~
alexasmyths
Except that it has no 'headquarters' and all the important decisions,
revenues, hiring, marketing, PR, taxation is happening elsewhere. Outside of
'Element AI' \- which has yet to prove itself - we have a lot of work to
create an actual industrial base.

~~~
jgmjgm
This is a great point. Canada has a long history of developing branch plants
to the US and selling mid-sized companies rather than growing them.

I mean, there are worse things. It took a long time before the country
realized that inward flowing FDI was not a bad thing.

On the other hand, we live in complex times and Silicon Valley companies
aren't making a great reputation for themselves as trustworthy partners.

------
mrmondo
I don’t want to make a negatively geared comment just for the sake of it,
however (and there’s often a however after such words) facebook and other
platforms where the product is the you - the person deeply troubles me
especially when said company invests heavily in data sciences that will likely
be used to market products to or get more information from again - people.

------
chiefalchemist
How much of this is FB wanting to go to Montreal? And how much of this is FB
anticipating (AI) regulation in the USA?

~~~
jamesmishra
Montreal is already well known to be a hotbed for excellent machine learning
talent.

Google already has their own Montreal AI lab, and they have also made a
donation to the Montreal Institute for Learning Algorithms (MILA)[1].

I'm less familiar with the exact details of this, but Montreal might also be a
nice place to relocate researchers that cannot get work authorization in the
United States.

[1]: [https://www.wired.com/2016/11/google-opens-montreal-ai-
lab-s...](https://www.wired.com/2016/11/google-opens-montreal-ai-lab-snag-
scarce-global-talent/)

~~~
richerlariviere
I live in downtown montreal and I can assure it's also a great place to live.
Far more cheaper than a Bay area location and it's pretty peaceful.

~~~
dataisfun
You mean except in the winter.

~~~
ant6n
Heating isn't that expensive

