
On the Closing of Living Computers: Museum+Labs - aikinai
https://rottedbits.blogspot.com/2020/07/on-closing-of-living-computers.html?m=1&fbclid=IwAR30zAZFD54sW4qfZ-X3GatKhMo6nNsuEEHuIQkKPq7ONWhKFBPQncBVIlM
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hyperrail
If you're wondering what this place was, it was a computer museum in Seattle:
[https://livingcomputers.org](https://livingcomputers.org)

Unlike many other computer museums, the exhibited computers were almost all up
and running, and volunteers and staff encouraged you to play around with them,
even the IBM mainframes. You could even get remote access to the computers for
telnet or ssh!

LCM's indefinite closure was announced not too long ago in the CoViD era, but
fits with a longer pattern. Since the 2018 passing away of its creator,
Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen, his sister and estate executor Jody Allen has
been unwinding many of their diverse businesses and philanthropies for a more
narrow focus, theoretically in line with his hope to give most of his wealth
away after his death.

However, Allen's main business Vulcan
([https://www.vulcan.com](https://www.vulcan.com) ) continues and remains
locally famous as a commercial real estate developer and Amazon's main
landlord in Seattle.

~~~
crabasa
This is devastating, not just for computer geeks in Seattle, but all over the
world. The LCM was one of a kind.

I organize an annual developer conference [1], and one of the highlights of my
life was renting this place out and inviting ~400 fellow devs to spend the
night playing with mainframes & vintage PCs [2] and signing karaoke.

[1] [https://2020.cascadiajs.com](https://2020.cascadiajs.com)

[2]
[https://twitter.com/ermap/status/1063697148514983936?s=21](https://twitter.com/ermap/status/1063697148514983936?s=21)

~~~
cthulhu-bot
I was at that cascadia conference and getting to visit LCM was the most
amazing and unexpected treat I could have ever imagined. It was an entire
evening of geeked out bliss. I can't thank you enough for making that happen.
The talks were all great but this for me was the highlight of the conference.

------
barefoot
This was one of my favorite museums in the world.

My wife and I have many good memories playing checkmo against a beautifully
maintained PDP-8 At the museum. She just yelled out a genuine “No!” when I
relayed the closure.

At one point they kept a binder of photos of victorious players.

We never made that binder and I guess we never will.

~~~
gibolt
For anyone in tech visiting Seattle, this was always my first recommendation.

The hardest part about history is that human minds are unwilling to grasp the
'realness' of it. Being able to directly touch and play with the past reality
really makes you appreciate how we arrived at modern computers.

------
bilegeek
They seemed to do what no other (perhaps very few) places have done; have real
vintage machines accessible via the internet[1].

I know there are still real-hardware microcomputer BBS's (the C64 scene is
arguably the biggest), but is there ANY other place that puts real big iron on
the internet?

As a retro computer nerd, I hope these machines aren't silent in their storage
units, and will one day again roam the internet with their descendents.

[1][https://www.livingcomputers.org/Computer-
Collection/Online-S...](https://www.livingcomputers.org/Computer-
Collection/Online-Systems.aspx)

------
qvrjuec
Does anyone have any ideas as to why Jody seems to be... betraying Paul's
legacy, for lack of a better word? The only eccentric public indulgence of his
that looks like it's going to survive is the MoPop museum, but that's because
it's self sustaining.

~~~
jeffwilcox
It sounds like beyond MoPop and some of the brain research work, the legacy
was not to be operating his projects, but rather giving away his fortune for
causes.

I wish Cinerama was self-sustaining... and LCM is a huge loss... but I suppose
they aren't 100-year institutions as they were created by Paul, but rather,
showing us what is posible.

~~~
m3talsmith
Which means that it's up to us to make these long term institutions somehow.

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vvanders
fuck fuck fuck.

I had no idea it was being shut down, that place was really one of a kind. I
think there are few places where you could see a running Alto. The scope of
what was there and the breadth of what was running was simply incredible.

Sounds like it won't make a return which is truly heartbreaking.

~~~
rtpg
I was able to visit this last year, crashing the Alto while trying to write
some smalltalk was such a fun experience.

I doubt it could ever really make money but its just such an amazing
experience.

------
njacobs5074
Very sad to see them shut their doors. When I was writing a blog article on
using the Unix command line, they gave me access to their PDP-11 running
Version 7 as well as a VAX 11/780 running BSD Unix - completely free.

Was a bit of magic that made my day since I hadn't used either platform in, of
course, a very long time.

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AceJohnny2
These folks provided vital help in helping the team reviving a Xerox Alto at
the silicon valley Computer History Museum.

[http://www.righto.com/search/label/alto](http://www.righto.com/search/label/alto)

------
artemisyna
Man this makes me sad. I got a membership about a year ago with the intention
of bringing along some friends (after visiting with family), but looks like
that won’t be happening.

Playing Oregon Trail on some oooold machines was good.

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mazesc
What? No! I've been there last year during my Seattle internship and it was
the most amazing experience having grown up after most of the machines
exhibited were around.

There have to be some philantropists around who got rich in computing and have
an interest in keeping it alive.

It is one of a kind, I was raving about it to everyone. I'd be happy to donate
even though it's across the world from me.

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peter_d_sherman
>"I'd be lying if I didn't shed a tear when turning Rosencrantz (the VAX,
running perpetually for a decade) off, wondering when it would run again."

This is truly sad -- VAX (at least the early ones where the CPU was
implemented as cards with discrete electronic components) was the last truly
transparent hardware...

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mlaux
This is a real shame. I moved to Seattle at the beginning of COVID and never
got to take a look before it closed. Hopefully they’ll be back, maybe in a new
location?

Edit: Maybe some tech exec with enough money that the museum's expenses are a
drop in the bucket could help?

~~~
dunham
I moved here about five years ago, learned about the museum about a year ago.
I now regret not finding time to visit, I'd assumed it'd always be there.

~~~
dboreham
Similar story for me (I don't live in Seattle but I go there every few
months). Except...last year we did a family trip where we needed for reasons
to split the family for a day. So I used my free day to visit the museum with
my oldest son. Feeling pretty lucky now to have had that somewhat random
chance to visit. Also the bagel place next door wasn't bad.

------
GeorgeDewar
This is very sad news indeed. For years I have longed to visit this museum.

I hope that they choose to reopen or that it can be purchased and turned into
a more sustainable operation. I would gladly donate at least $1000 to such a
cause if a viable proposal could be formed...

------
kristopolous
I really liked that place. I vacationed to Seattle and I saw it the same day
as the Connections Museum, which is exceptionally fantastic.

Old telecom switches, some over 100 years old, still fully operational. The
guided tour was just extraordinary.
[https://www.telcomhistory.org/connections-museum-
seattle/](https://www.telcomhistory.org/connections-museum-seattle/)

They have multiple phones hooked up to these old switches. After explaining
the machine the tour guide picked up a handset, dialed a number and you'd hear
"clickety clickety whir whir" and see these mechanical bars move around and
the other phone would start ringing. You'd pick it up and have a conversation.
Really magnificent. They had two 1960s video phones and you could have a
conversation across the room.

There's a constant humming of belts and mechanical clicking, it's this really
unique and distinct experience. Not many people were there the day I went so
it was just me and a friend on what felt like a private tour. Very intimate.
The guide was an old homebrew computing club member, extremely competent.

Also if this is your thing, Berlin has a computer gaming museum which is also
amazing called Computerspielemuseum.

The living computer museum was just too good to be true. I hope it comes back.
They had a Xerox Alto and an Apple 1 you could use. Just walk up and start
typing away.

I had read a lot about the Xerox machines but I never used one. So it was just
extraordinary to try all the things I've read about, it was like meeting a
celebrity. The kludgy copy and paste before dragging was "invented", the
VisiOn style menus, the clunky scrolling without scrollbars, all there.

They even encouraged you to program on punch cards to feed into some 1960s era
machines they had running, including a CDC super computer. Or you could go use
Unix on a teletype terminal and see the reams of paper pass by.

I had read Tracy Kiddals Soul of a New Machine about the Data General Eagle
Computer, but I never thought I'd see one in person, just sitting there
waiting for me to interact with it.

Or that I'd ever have a chance to just lounge on the couch of a Cray XMP.

The only things missing were foreign machines. No acorn or omron or any of the
Soviet clones but if you set that aside, just great (unless there was a room
off to the side dedicated to them that I missed... Quite possible)

As long as I'm plugging museums here's my short list: Imperial War Museum and
the British Library, London, Philadelphia Museum of Art, Museo Nacional de
Antropología, Mexico City.

Every 5 feet of all of those is just shocking in what famous and wonderful
artifacts they have. Philadelphia's is world class, better than the MET,
better than the Smithsonian, don't pass on it if you get the opportunity

~~~
Wingman4l7
Seconding how incredible the Connections telecom history museum is. I'm scared
for them too, as they're definitely on a shoestring compared to the LCM -- I
think they were only open one day a week and staffed heavily (if not
completely) by volunteers.

~~~
extrapickles
They also have annoying power requirements (48v, 1000A) to run all of the
legacy phone equipment, making it even more difficult to move. Their current
landlord provides that to them as they are taking up the top floors of a phone
company switch office (building was built for old gear which took up a lot
more space and power).

~~~
chronomex
Hi there! Connections Museum volunteer here. We're on good terms with our
landlords (CenturyLink). While we are 100% volunteer run, we also are part of
an independent non-profit, the Telecommunications History Group.

We've been keeping busy during quarantine, working on all kinds of restoration
projects, and look forward to being able to give tours when that's safe again.
For now you'll have to get by with our youtube channel.

And our power draw is more in the neighborhood of 200A than 1000A :) With
respect to moving, the greater challenges are that everything is hard-wired
together (not connectorized) and we'd need a space with 13+ foot ceilings that
allows high floor loading.

------
fouc
I'm a bit confused as to why something like the LCM didn't have a trust setup
so that it could operate indefinitely?

~~~
Schiendelman
My understanding, hearing from Cinerama folks, was that Paul trusted Jody
instead of putting things in writing.

------
ars
If I'm reading this right, they are just pausing operations to save money,
until COVID is over and they can re-open?

~~~
rbanffy
They are shutting down the museum and laying off the staff.

They may be able to reopen at a later time, but that is unclear now. The
closure for that long may drain their finances beyond recovery.

~~~
topkai22
I wonder if Bill Gates will up and keep that aspect of his one time friend's
legacy alive.

~~~
rbanffy
Legend says he and Ballmer tried to take over Allen's share when they thought
he would die of cancer. It could be a nice posthumous apology.

~~~
pinewurst
It's hardly legend, Allen heard them talking about it when they didn't realize
he was in the office.

~~~
jecel
As nasty as something like this made them look, what is being discussed here
makes it not unreasonable. They liked being partners with Allen but were
worried about his heirs having control of their company as they might have
taken it in a direction Allen wouldn't have approved.

------
dboreham
Now we have a use for Elon Musk.

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divbzero
I feel incredibly sad that I never visited this museum while I could, and
won’t be able to bring family and friends to visit it in the future. Hoping
someone somehow will find a way to revive it again.

------
krallja
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23713704](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23713704)

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usr1106
I can still log in to Rosencrantz, their VAX, at this moment. For how long? I
guess my little donation would not save the place now :(

~~~
callmekit
I couldn't login into their systems about a week ago. I just tried again after
your comment, and now it works for me too. But yeah, for how long?

~~~
usr1106
Same here, some time ago it did not work. I thought some old HW is causing
trouble.

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peignoir
Very sad :( I remember having the chance to go there and meet amazing people
(one of them worked on the first micro kernel) being able to see a real PDP
working ... I don't get why bill gates would not back up his friend s old
project :(

~~~
ahelwer
Unbelievable with all the money sloshing around in tech that nobody has funded
this. The museum was a very special place.

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modeless
I loved playing with an actual, physical, working teletype terminal when I
visited. It'll be really sad if they shut down for good.

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dbish
This is so sad. I love this place and it was a great place for kids to learn
too. I hope it comes back one day, or something like it.

