
Canonical adds a $625 and $675 UbuntuEdge reward level - madmaze
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge?c=activity#
======
whiskers
Well that decides it - I'm in.

I'm excited about the possibility of a genuinely hand held, pocket sized
device that I can hook up to behave like a full desktop.

It's a format that has been tried before but the power/price ratio has never
been favourable - this feels like the first real chance for it to work.

~~~
bobsy
Just wondering what scenarios you foresee you using the desktop feature in?

If your travelling there won't be a screen available unless you lug one
around. In which case you might as well carry a laptop.

At home and work you probably have a computer.

I think it is an interesting concept but I don't quite see the practical use.
Unless it had like a stand and a projector or something.

~~~
griffordson
I wonder the same thing. But I would be really interested in trying a small
Mac Air sized screen/keyboard shell that had a port that I could slide such a
phone in to. Sort of a portable docking station.

~~~
jkimmel
Reminds me of my old Motorola Atrix [1]. It had a laptop docking shell that
booted a restricted version of Ubuntu alongside an instance of Android. It was
totally cool, and everyone that saw it was amazed. However, actual usage was
another story. Tegra2 just wasn't powerful enough to drive Ubuntu and Android
concurrently in a usable manner.

[1] -
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Atrix_4G](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Atrix_4G)

~~~
achiang
We've come a long, long way since WebTop.

Our code runs fairly well on the Nexus 4 today, and through much dogfooding,
we've learned that RAM is the biggest limiting factor in performance. So when
(if?!) Edge ships with 4GB of RAM, the desktop mode will fly.

------
avar
Is there any information on whether the drivers on the phone will be open
source as well? I'm on the fence, but the main thing stopping me is that I'm
not very keen on buying yet another phone powered by a bunch of proprietary
binary blobs.

I'd like to hack on the software, build my own, try to install Debian on it
instead etc. All that is going to be much harder if I have to use whatever
kernel version their binary blobs target.

~~~
achiang
We plan on an unlocked phone, with an unlocked bootloader.

Unfortunately, for the planned volume, we won't have much influence with the
SoC vendor, and therefore, it is highly doubtful you will see open graphics /
radio firmware.

Sorry, it's not our preference either.

~~~
ansible
Just for everyone's edification...

You're unlikely to see an open-source firmware for the 3G/4G cellular radio,
the WiFi, or the low level Bluetooth stack (up to the HCI layer). Ever.

The reason? This stuff costs a lot to develop, and the major chip vendors
don't want to give any help to their competition.

As for graphics... I had heard an announcement by one SoC vendor who was just
putting in more general-purpose processor cores, and they had planned to do
all the video decoding (such as for H.264) and OpenGL graphics in software
(using Mesa?). This was allegedly going to be possible with a power budget not
too much larger than the typical hardware implementations of these blocks.
What ever happened to them?

------
netcan
I don't quite get what's going on here. Is this an idea for a major commercial
product or is it a quirky fun thing for the ubuntu community? The scale
they're aiming for seems to imply the former.

Usable as a desktop is a cool idea, but more of a "linux on your wristwatch"
idea than one with real use. I mean, if you have a keyboard & monitor handy,
how hard is it to have a PC too? Cheap micro desktops are coming out all over
the place. Cheap.

Am I missing the point entirely? Is this all about Ubuntu mobile itself with
android & ubuntu desktop as extras?

I hope this doesn't sound like hating. I actually want this to succeed. It's
cool. Crowd funding a major player in the OS/mobile space is even cooler. Lots
of potential spinoffs down the road (like the iOS laptop I've wanted to get my
dad for years). That said... Can anyone explain this to me? What are they
trying to do here?

~~~
fingerprinter
>Am I missing the point entirely? Is this all about Ubuntu mobile itself with
android & ubuntu desktop as extras?

It's a phone! It's a computer! It's both!

More seriously, imagine a phone that is always a phone unless you want to make
it a computer. Plug it into a TV/Monitor/glass and you have a full computer
desktop.

I travel quite a bit. I have in my bag at the moment a laptop, a phone and a
tablet. With this, I need just the phone.

I also used to work in an office. When I went home, I had a computer at home.
If I never wanted to do anything, read an email or what not, I needed to VPN
in or sync something. Things ALWAYS got out of sync. Now, I can just plug into
a monitor and have my work system at home.

Or, say, you are a corporation. You have 10,000+ people. Assuming you are a
normal corporation of that size, many of those people have phones AND
computers/laptops. It is highly likely that a very large number of those
people could get by with one device: a phone that is also a computer. Cost
savings for those corporations would be huge.

~~~
netcan
_" With this, I need just the phone._"

You still need the keyboard and monitor, don't you?. If you are traveling, it
would probably be best if they snapped together into a nice, book-like shape.
Like a laptop, but with the computer conveniently removed?

Regarding money-saving at a 10,000 PC corporation.. really? First, they would
have to use Ubuntu, and they use Windows. Second, its not really that much
money. Even if this is free in the sense that they need to have a phone
anyway, they still need the monitor & stuff. If they were happy with an ubuntu
appliance PC, I'm sure they could get the computer part of the computer in
micro computer form for $200 or so every 3-5 years if the saving was worth it.
Most importantly, phones break, get lost or stolen.

I don't see it.

~~~
dwild
Find me an equivalent in a micro computer form for $200 or so.

Find me an equivalent in a cellphone form for 830$.

Now find me an equivalent that do both.

I don't think it's a really good idea to replace everything with a single
device, but you can't say that it's not less expensive.

------
thomasjames
Shuttleworth's interview about how they are going to keep the long term future
of Ubuntu's phone OS from fragmenting while still allowing complete
manufacturer customization was a really disappointing string of non-answers. I
am really confused about how this is going to shape up. Maybe this will set a
precendent for a Nexus-style standard device with the blessing of Canonical
itself.

~~~
socceroos
The general message is this: you don't put a new UI over the top, you add your
own services (videos displayed, music store, books, mags, etc, etc). There is
a small amount of leg room for making minor UI tweaks such as the welcome
screen layout, general colour scheme, etc - but that's it.

------
yuumei
Up to date graph: [http://vertior.com:9000/](http://vertior.com:9000/)

~~~
toyg
That's a wonderful visualization, the second graph shows very clearly that the
new strategy is working wonders.

I still think Shuttleworth will eventually top-up with his own money, but this
should reduce his exposure somewhat ;)

~~~
japhyr
Can he do that? I thought kickstarter tries to block people from doing that.
How does indiegogo deal with that issue?

~~~
toyg
I don't think indiegogo is as strict as kickstarter... regardless: I expect
something that brings 32m through IG would get preferential terms anyway.

Mind, it's all speculation at this point.

------
dan1234
At current levels they need more than 30,000 people to commit to buy an $830
dollar phone which is not expected to released for at least 10 months and with
next to no marketing clout.

I'm not saying it can't be done but I'd be very surprised if they meet the
target.

~~~
josh2600
To me, this isn't so much the problem as the realities of producing a phone
with a Bill of Materials like the one they're intending.

I can't imagine that spec sheet, at the end of 2013/beginning of 2014, is
going to be cheap. They'd be hard pressed to manufacture this phone at all,
let alone with sapphire screens and such.

Think of it this way, Samsung won't even broker a discussion about RAM unless
you order >100k units. If they sold 32M of phones at $600, that's about 53k
handsets, which is about half of an initial production run for any serious
manufacturer.

I'm bearish, but I'd be thrilled if we had another competitor against iOS and
Android. Blackberry and WP8 are not real contenders, Canonical could easily
get the 3rd slot.

------
bdfh42
There is a lesson there - you cant sell a lot of kit (available at some future
date) at a price that is over 30% more than a ton of other folks got it for.
The reward price "spread" is an attempt to reproduce that initial enthusiastic
sales surge but I wonder...

Might come off but it feels like a marketing "cock-up" to me.

------
timmillwood
I am struggling to justify buying a phone now that won't ship for 10 months.
By then Apple, Samsung, HTC etc will all have far superior devices

~~~
jt2190
This isn't _buying_ a phone. This is making a donation to support the project
[1], and, if all goes well, you'll be rewarded with a very cool phone.

[1] I'm pretty sure I've got this right. The text I'm referencing is from
their FAQ:

    
    
      > What if you fail to reach the funding target?
      >
      > We appreciate every bit of support we receive during the 
      > 30 days, and every backer will be welcomed into the 
      > Ubuntu community. If we don’t reach our target then we 
      > will focus only on commercially available handsets and 
      > there will not be an Ubuntu Edge.
    

(edit: I picked a terrible FAQ item to support the point that I was trying to
make, which is that the phone may take longer than predicted to produce, and
there's even a possibility that it'll never be produced. I think that
Canonical is being very responsible by raising a lot of money as a hedge
against the risks, but still, there are some risks.)

~~~
zerovox
No, if the campaign doesn't succeed, Indiegogo won't take your money. The
campaign is only funded if they raise the full $32m, so there is no worry of
not paying and not receiving the phone.

~~~
jt2190
Yes you are correct. I screwed up by pasting the wrong FAQ item.

What I was trying to get at is that there's no guarantee of a phone _even if
the project is funded_.

~~~
rlpb
> What I was trying to get at is that there's no guarantee of a phone even if
> the project is funded.

Guarantee from whom?

Normally I'd agree, because the fundraiser is typically a startup, perhaps a
limited company, with no existing business with which to back refunds. So they
could burn through the money and end up with nothing to issue refunds with. So
from your perspective, there's no guarantee, since suing them would certainly
do you no good anyway.

But what about an established company? If they want to guarantee it, why can't
they? But, of course, are they? I'm not sure whether they're saying they are,
or whether the law would say that they are. But I don't think it's as clear
cut as the new startup case.

~~~
jt2190

      > Normally I'd agree, because the fundraiser is typically a 
      > startup, perhaps a limited company, with no existing 
      > business with which to back refunds.
    

What type of entity is raising the funds (startup, limited company, etc.) is
irrelevant. The point is that they are asking for an _investment_ , and yes,
as you point out, there are no refunds if an investment doesn't work out.

This is very different from the mindset of a consumer, who is purchasing the
product that was created with the investors money. If the investment doesn't
pan out, the consumer has nothing to buy. The investor looses their
investment.

My concern is that by offering product in exchange for investment (essentially
a forward contract[1]), consumers are lured into taking on the risks of
investors. The language on the fundraising page is, unfortunately, quite vague
about this.

Again, I'm not saying that Canonical can't deliver, and I'm certain that
they'll do their best to make this work out. I do wish that they'd make a
better effort of warning off people who think they're simply buying a phone
that won't be delivered for many months.

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_contract](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_contract)

------
Maxious
"[Kogan] LivePrice allows you to purchase a product while we are in the
process of manufacturing or shipping. The price of the product gradually
increases... "
[http://www.kogan.com/au/liveprice/](http://www.kogan.com/au/liveprice/)

------
hysan
So long as a Paypal account is required to make a > $500 contribution, I won't
be contributing at any of those tiers. I know I'm in the minority though so I
doubt this will have a big impact on the overall funding.

~~~
GoNB
I'm wih you on that. While we're probably in the minority, at least in the
U.S. PayPal is not a monopoly with Stripe and other services around, so I make
it an effort not to use PayPal and it's easy to do so. I havent't logged into
PayPal in years and probably don't even remember my password.

------
boothead
Done. £419 for a phone that good, that I only need a screen and a keyboard for
to turn into a mobile workstation. Fingers crossed that enough people find
this as compelling as I do and sign up!

~~~
dan1234
Slightly OT, but do you know where you stand from an import duty/VAT
standpoint?

A quick google suggests you could be liable for around £90 in duty & VAT[1]

[1][http://www.dutycalculator.com/popular-import-items/import-
du...](http://www.dutycalculator.com/popular-import-items/import-duty-and-
taxes-for-smartphone/)

~~~
RobAley
Its says free shipping in the US and UK, so I'm guessing, as Canonical is
based in London, they'll do the importing and deal with duty, so the price you
see is the price you pay! I'm guessing.

~~~
dan1234
Ah, I never knew they were headquartered in the UK!

~~~
miga
And thus all EU countries should have it without duty.

------
deepGem
Man, what a bummer. Can't make a purchase without a paypal account. Guys -
please enable credit card payments and you'll have a horde of buyers from
India :)

------
hugh4life
I can't comment on their thing so I'll say something here hoping someone there
reads it...

They really ought to make their $20 founder level a lottery.

And then after that was publicized, make two more tiers.

$20 - 1 ticket

$50 - 3 tickets

$100 - 8 tickets

And then throw in some of the $10,000 one of a kind prizes in the drawing.

~~~
lifeformed
That sounds possibly illegal, or at least against the TOS.

------
sspiff
Selling out all the "limited" tiers still lands them $7 million short. I hope
they make it (I backed the $600 tier), but I'm still doubtful.

~~~
lightbritefight
I'd hope shuttleworth would step in and lay that 7 million down as a
contingency action.

~~~
reactor
Nope, I don't think that will ever happen, there is no incentive for him doing
that. Mass production of 40-45K phones really need capital, and if he put 7
million, how he is going to avoid a loss, let alone profit.

------
tommi
"The last few days have been absolutely incredible -- over $3.5 million in the
first 40 hours."

This seems quite low. With thirty days they must achieve over a million
dollars per day. I would assume that the first 40 hours brings way more money
than the days 3-27 but that's only double than the required average income. I
hope they reach the target, but I doubt it.

~~~
math0ne
Crowd funding generally receives the bulk of it's funding in the last few
days. Many projects succeed when they at < 50% funded a couple days prior to
the end.

~~~
mehwoot
Yes but crowd funding is generally raising a bit less than $32 million.
Impossible to tell whether this project will follow others.

------
hamax
Founding rate: [http://ownu.net/rate.txt](http://ownu.net/rate.txt)

------
reactor
I'd say its a good move (even if it is a fluke). Think this way, people saw
600$ and 830$ initially. So in our subconscious mind, 830$ IS THE price, rest
will be played by psychology, anything less than 830 would be at a discount
and most probably I'll be TEMPTED to buy it.

------
ximeng
625 is sold out already. Any idea what the likely BOM cost to Ubuntu would be
for this?

[http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/Samsung-
Galaxy-S...](http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/Samsung-
Galaxy-S4-Carries-236-Bill-of-Materials-IHS-iSuppli-Virtual-Teardown-
Reveals.aspx)

Suggests 400$ is achievable, which should leave them plenty of room for profit
at 600 USD. Given the dropoff when the price goes up to 675 from 625 here:
[http://vertior.com:9000/](http://vertior.com:9000/) and the lack of marketing
/ distribution costs you'd think they'd do better just to leave the price low.

~~~
option_greek
With such low handset numbers (<50000), I would be surprised if they don't
lose money.

~~~
achiang
The cost of my team's engineering time over the next multiple months is not
covered by the $32M.

I do not think you will be surprised.

------
ANH
I'm all for an Ubuntu phone, almost to the point of shelling out, but I'm not
sure I'd get a commensurate benefit from this phone. I would probably go for
it if it weren't for remote desktop apps like iTeleport. Pull out whatever
mobile device you've got (this morning it was my iPad), launch the app, and
there's your home desktop (assuming you've got a cell or WiFi signal). It's
laggy, but such things improve over time.

Maybe I'm missing the point.

~~~
PhasmaFelis
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Network_Computing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Network_Computing)
It may take a bit more configuration than iTeleport (or not, I dunno), but
it's worked fine on every major OS for years.

------
bhz
Their goal of $32M seems impossible, unless I'm not understanding how
indiegogo works.

If all the pledge levels 'fill up' (Only $830 and $20 do not have caps) They
hit about 11 or 12 million. That leaves about 20 million to be supplied by the
$830, $20 levels - or just random goodwill givings. Is that correct?

*edit, an illustration of what I was seeing: [http://pastebin.com/8GfXRzbY](http://pastebin.com/8GfXRzbY)

~~~
wmf
You didn't count the $600 level and there is no cap at the $830 level. I have
a feeling they'll keep finessing the levels throughout the campaign to keep
the money coming in.

------
Jefff8
I'd like to see another reward level: I would pay $50 for an option to buy the
phone at $650 at launch or soon afterwards. Say 2 months after launch to give
the people who have paid outright up front an advantage.

You'd get an indication of volume and free money. Not many companies get the
chance to charge potential customers.

Also, if this suggestion brings you more than $1m, I'd like a free phone
please.

Reader: if you'd like this option too, why not chime in here.

------
izietto
Does anyone really think the $32 will be reached? The trend seems to me to be
against this

(and I'm not jealous, I actually gave $630 on the day one)

------
aroman
Why do they have the same exact item/reward point at $625, $675, $725 and
$830? It seems to me they're realizing there's no way they can reach they goal
selling at the $830 price point, but why have all other levels simultaneously?
Are people really going to pick 725 over 675 for the same thing?

~~~
rallison
One of the important points here is that each price level (aside from the last
one) has an allotment of 1250 units. So, while most people won't buy at $625
vs $675, so long as $625 is available, it provides incentive for people to buy
now vs later and risk the lower level selling out.

Edit: Although, the $625 level is now "1296 out of 1250 claimed" \- so I'm not
sure what that is about.

~~~
vidarh
Looks like they're probably letting people through if they've entered the
pledge process while there were free slots even if all were filled by the time
they completed it.

------
dysoco
That's quite cheap, given that you can easily pay $1,500 for a Galaxy S4 here.

------
jlebrech
why not make founder $100 and give a discount on batch 2.

the phone seems too high and the founder too low. I'd like it to happen but I
would rather wait for a second batch.

~~~
Tomdarkness
There won't be a batch 2:

"The Ubuntu Edge is an exclusive production run, available only through
Indiegogo."

~~~
MisterBastahrd
Yeah, it'll be the Ubuntu Edge 2, and they'll have worked a lot of the bugs
out of the second one that they didn't anticipate in the first.

------
venomsnake
From the funding graph slopes it is obvious that the market prices that device
at 650$. So expect 626 and 666 (Devil badass edition) tiers soon.

------
stock_toaster
this graph is great

[http://movebits.net/2013/07/23/ubuntu-edge-funding-
level/](http://movebits.net/2013/07/23/ubuntu-edge-funding-level/)

you can really see how the new "deals" really helped it take off again.

------
seferphier
if all the price tiers are sold out, it would generator 2.5 million only.

That is pretty far away from the 32 million they need

~~~
reitzensteinm
You're off by an order of magnitude. All tiers combined (including the already
sold out $600 tier) is around $25m.

~~~
seferphier
oh. i meant by all the discounted price tiers and not including existing
raised.

------
forgottenpaswrd
At this prices they will need to add financing options to their phones.

We are in the era of Ben Bernanke free money for everyone. Getting credit
should not be that hard.

Financing is a top priority thing for selling phones and cars in the real
world. Probably not in Mark Shutterworth's land thought.

~~~
freehunter
Even in the US, financing for phones is becoming more unfashionable with time.
Prepaid plans and bring-your-own-phone is now on most if not all major
carriers. Google is selling their Nexus phones directly rather than carrier
subsidy. People are starting to wise up to the fact that financing is
unsustainable.

