
Jack White bans phones at gigs for “100% human experience” - lnguyen
http://www.nme.com/news/music/jack-white-bans-phones-gigs-2227093
======
davb
I experienced the Yondr phone prison last night for the first time (at a Chris
Rock show). While I detest people being disruptive with their phones, I don’t
think this is the right solution.

From a practical standpoint, it took a lot longer to get into and out of the
venue when phones had to be locked up. Checking your phone when you pop out to
the toilet meant waiting in a queue to have your phone unlocked, and being
kept in a small penned off area. There have been a number of times when I’ve
been split up from friends at large venues - not being able to text each other
to meet up is inconvenient.

It doesn’t work. Unless stewards are doing a thorough search (which would be
offputting in itself), people will manage to bring phones in. They did last
night. Mine got locked up, my fiancées didn’t.

In the event of an emergency, this is a really bad idea. At the extreme end,
you’ve got things like the Manchester bombing, where access to a phone would
be a useful thing. But more likely it’s a fire alarm and subsequent
evacuation, where you end up separated from your group. The venue last night
(the SSE Hydro in Glasgow) said that in the event of an evacuation you should
not attempt to have your phone unlocked but should leave immediately -
sensible but if phones weren’t locked up, it wouldn’t even be a concern.

I think the solution is to simply enforce a strict “no phones during the
performance” policy. Treat people like adults. If they break the rules, ask
them to leave. Last night we were sitting in front of a very drunken,
obnoxious heckler. After several people complained, she was asked to leave.
This is how many venues handle it.

Interestingly, all of the venue stewards last night were wearing Yondr hi vis
vests. They seem to be on a major marketing push. I really hope it doesn’t
become commonplace.

The venue seemed to want to distance themselves from the decision, making
announcements along the lines of “At Chris Rock’s request, phones will not be
allowed at tonight’s show and will be locked in Yondr cases and given back you
you. Consequently, Apple Pay will not be available tonight.”

~~~
ken
I think the viscerality of this response is fascinating. Putting your phone in
a case is a "prison", and you must check it every time you go to the toilet,
and you're concerned about a terrorist attack -- enough to want your phone,
but not enough to stay home, as if your apps could somehow save you.

> Treat people like adults. If they break the rules, ask them to leave.

Isn't that what we've been trying for the past 10 years? Clearly, it's not
working. A significant percentage of people are not _acting_ like adults. And
you can't deal with 1/4 of the audience intentionally misbehaving like you do
with a single drunken heckler.

~~~
aerovistae
Don't be ridiculous. Fear of terrorism is not the only factor. Cellphones are
one of the past century's greatest contributions to public safety.

If you want to be antagonistic about the threat of a bombing, how about a more
commonplace example: you're a very drunk young girl who's been separated from
her friends at the concert and a pushy, aggressive guy you don't know is
trying to get you into his car to go home with him. You can't text your
friends that you need help because your phone is locked.

Or how about this? You're a parent and you've lost track of your kid in the
sea of people. You can't text or call them, because your phone is locked.

Or how about this? You're alone and you have a medical condition and something
goes wrong, and you need immediate attention, but you can't call 911 because
your phone is locked. Your only option now to _hope_ someone else in the crowd
notices that you're passed out on the ground not from drunkenness, but from
something much more urgent.

Don't act like cellphones have no practical use and are just social media
machines. How absurd. They save lives every day and this policy is insanely
dangerous for everyone. People here saying "How did people survive before
cellphones," well, guess what, in many cases they probably didn't.

~~~
titzer
> Or how about this? > Or how about this? > Don't act like cellphones have no
> practical use

 _sigh_ Humans have survived for hundreds of thousands of years without
cellphones. For any new tech, you can continually imagine scenarios where
survival "absolutely depends on" having this tech.

How about this? You're sitting in your ISS sleep capsule and suddenly the
station starts to depressurize. You hop into your reentry-safe spacesuit and
exit the station, set the suit to auto-reentry and then aero-brake from Mach
18 to 0 and touch down safely in your backyard with your parachute. See? A
reentry safe single-person spacesuit is absolute essential to survival.

Your example is that you pass out at a concert with literally thousands of
people around and no one helps you. Or you are drunk and a guy is hitting on
you. Or your kid is missing.

And you call the person you are responding to ridiculous.

Cellphones have made people into helpless, scared sheep.

~~~
mikeash
I find this argument supremely unconvincing. It’s true that humanity survived,
but people died in all sorts of awful and now preventable ways. This argument
could be used to argue against vaccines, sanitation, or good nutrition. Is
that where you want to be?

When it comes to safety, I want to set the bar somewhat above “this will not
literally drive the species to extinction.”

~~~
aerovistae
Thank you.

------
illegalsmile
I think his statement "If they can’t give me that energy back? Maybe I’m
wasting my time." is thoughtful. Jack is old enough to have gone to and
performed shows in his youth where cells phone were rare if there were any. He
performs not only for the music but for the energy of the crowd. A crowd
that's now placed a screen between themselves and the performer taking away
that energy or removing that sense of connection. Even in a large venue!

He's the artist, it's his gig, if you can't respect the reasonable wishes of
the person who you paid to go see what are you doing there?

~~~
donretag
Many of us old enough remember that cameras were often banned from venues,
even non professional ones. It wasn't until camera enabled phones became
popular that this rule was dropped.

I have no idea why someone would want to watch a performance from behind a
screen.

~~~
bonesss
Why do people drop buttloads of money getting to the Grand Canyon and then
spend their time behind a viewfinder taking landscape pictures that are
infinitely worse than you'll find online or purchased from pros, ensuring they
spend less (and sometimes no), time enjoying the scenery and environment?

~~~
knodi123
I actually tested this theory recently; when I went to Machu Picchu, I took
several pictures with my wife in them, and absolutely zero pics of the scenery
or the monument. When I got home, I inserted some random high-res professional
pics from recognizable vantage points into an album and called it a day. I
don't feel shortchanged.

Although I'm somewhat glad for the tourist "gotta take my own shitty photo"
attitude, because I saw a really nifty research project once that took
thousands of tourist photos (of the Trevi Fountain IIRC) and combined them to
generate a high-res 3d image without any people in it. That was pretty cool.

If I could change anything about my Machu Picchu experience, though, it would
have been to find some way to shut up that blathering loudmouth moron in front
of me who barely paused for breath for the _entire_ duration of the morning
hike to the nearby summit. Jesus christ lady, I couldn't hear a single nature
sound, and I did NOT need to know about what a slut your cousin is.

~~~
j_s
My perspective grows stronger every time someone close to me dies: the true
value in photos is the faces. As a tech person, that is where I try to
maximize my pixel budget.

I actually prefer candid home video infinitely more -- most pictures on social
networks are as authentic as pornography stills.

------
dizzystar
Man, I can stand behind this. You have no idea how distracting it is to the
musicians on stage when they look at the crowd and see a bunch of cell phones
facing them.

I'd rather see everyone bored and talking. At least that's a genuine response.

I feel it's quite disrespectful to be looking at your cellphone and recording
while a performer is on stage. The performer is there for you, and you
presumably went there to see them. Sometimes we make eye contact, and
sometimes we look out to measure how we are doing. No feedback results breaks
the uh... feedback loop.

No big deal to do it for a few seconds, but a few seconds just doesn't happen.
Besides, my purpose is to give you a few minutes to escape life, leave all
your concerns, and be in a moment. Snap a pic, but turn off the flash and
don't film. The recording quality sucks so it isn't like anyone is going to
look at it understand half the experience anyways.

~~~
triangleman
We need a new etiquette and I'm not sure our culture can support one right
now.

Video: A few seconds, once or twice, is ok.

Photos: No flash photography

Audio: Record the whole show if you want. Isn't that how most Phish music is
distributed?

I am fine with artists putting hard limits on their audience. If they believe
it will improve their art, let's give them the benefit of the doubt. It might
help or hurt them financially, in terms of fanbase, whatever. It's the artist
who is taking the risk here, I say let him.

Incidentally, I went to a local symphony concert recently and I got some
serious evil-out-of-the-corner-of-the-eye from one of the patrons 3 rows in
front of me, wearing a tweed coat. Apparently my hushed comment to my wife
annoyed him. And then when the piece was over, right before the moment of
applause, he let out a "mmm" like he had just consumed a great piece of
chocolate cake or something. Now _that_ was bad manners.

~~~
dizzystar
I find it really depends on the venue and the audience. If you are playing to
an audience of mostly musicians and music appreciation types, the cell phones
are hardly seen.

It's the general crowd who isn't really there for the music that are the types
to record an entire show. I veer towards snobbery saying it like that,
obviously, but it's like seeing two people at an art gallery. The one snapping
pics of everything and running to the next piece isn't really there for the
art.

It's a tough balance since they are paying for whatever experience defines the
experience for them.

~~~
test1235
>It's the general crowd who isn't really there for the music

I guess it wouldn't be surprising to find that it'd be the people who are most
interested in doing something or going somewhere so they could tell people
about it, rather than for the experience itself.

------
alangibson
While I'm definitely on Jack's side spiritually, Yondr is not an efficient
solution. We need to consciously and intentionally establish a norm of 'no
phones' in certain group situations, just like how many areas have established
a norm of 'no smoking'.

And, yes, it's true that 'no smoking' often has local law to help drive the
idea home, but it's not like there's a cop monitoring the smoking situation in
every public venue. Shame, ridicule, side-eye and public opinion are really
what keep behavior in line.

It's not hard to do. I remember long ago that the famous Alamo Drafthouse
movie theater, which serves beer and booze, had problems with people talking.
They started playing a stock reel of people getting their asses kicked
overlaid with "if you talk we'll kick your ass out" before the movie started.
Now it's just accepted fact that you keep quiet no matter how many Lone Star
tallboys you've had.

~~~
reubenswartz
Yeah, I think a similar video played before the start of the show, about how
you paid all this money to be here, why see it through a small screen as if
you were on YouTube, combined with a few people actually getting kicked out,
would work wonders.

They can have a moment in the show for everyone who "needs" a picture or a
brief video can take one. And just let everyone know that the whole show will
be on YouTube in good quality later-- no need to take your own.

~~~
lostgame
>> And just let everyone know that the whole show will be on YouTube in good
quality later-- no need to take your own.

Um, it increases costs a lot to film a show, you realize this, right?

And if the show was available on YouTube for free, don't you think it would
potentially impact sales?

~~~
salvar
"Why bother going to the live show when I can sit at home watching a Youtube
video instead?" is something I don't think many people think. The video
doesn't replace the experience.

------
INTPenis
A suggestion. If entertainers ban phones at events they should at least record
the event themselves and publish the video for the participants or everyone.

I noticed at the Mark Twain wards for David Letterman when my hero Bill
fucking Murray came out a woman was literally watching him through her phone.
And I was watching the whole thing on youtube at a much better angle and
quality.

Of course my video was probably uploaded much later than her visual phone
proxy experience but it occurred to me that these events should make the
recordings available.

The ticket stub could have a url that will become active after the event with
the video. Or if they're feeling generous, put it on youtube for everyone.

~~~
wlesieutre
I went to a show a couple years ago that politely asked you to put your phones
away and said they would put a video up from one of the shows on the tour.
Unfortunately the video never happened, as far as I can tell. It's a nice
idea.

Funnily enough, the only reason I went to that show was having watched their
previous acoustic tour on YouTube. The quality obviously blows a phone
recording out of the water, I wish more concerts did this.

Above and Beyond Acoustic
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNUTlKqSO-I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNUTlKqSO-I)

If anyone finds an Acoustic II concert video around, let me know.

EDIT: well timed, just looked again and I guess it's more of a documentary
with showings starting next week:
[http://www.aboveandbeyond.nu/acousticfilm/](http://www.aboveandbeyond.nu/acousticfilm/)

Bit of a slow turnaround from a show in May 2016.

~~~
cpcarey
I'm also hoping the A&B Acoustic II video is similar to the Acoustic I video;
the first Acoustic concert video also drew me to go in person.

Side note, Lane 8 experimented with phone-less concerts that went well enough
that he does that for his tours now, even naming his new record label "This
Never Happened". My friends and I joke that it started with a Mixmag set where
a crowd member in the front kept recording video and flash photos, whereas
Lane 8 is usually very much enveloped in the music he's playing
([https://youtu.be/sWa7GdYiYUQ?t=15m2s](https://youtu.be/sWa7GdYiYUQ?t=15m2s)).

I've enjoyed his phone-less concerts a lot - it's just tape over the camera,
so you can send/receive a quick message if needed, and step off to the back or
side if you need to use it longer.

------
tlb
I recently saw a preview of a Pixar movie before the public release, and their
solution was to make us put our phones in an extremely crinkly bag that would
make noise if we tried to open it to surreptitiously video the screen. But we
could still access them in an emergency. It wouldn't work at a loud concert,
of course.

------
harlanji
Good. I do this at my personal parties, I have a phone bowl by the door. Few
arguments are solved by Google, and creative things happen.

Social Media is definitely at the point where TV was in around 2012. There
were the early 'adopters' who cast out their sets and proclaimed the virtues,
but they weren't shunned and understanding was attempted... what's a DVR?
what's streaming? Silly questions a few years later, right.

Cell phones are wonderful, apps are useful, don't get me wrong. So is self
awareness and presence. It's a huge waste of effort to go to a party/concert
just to use a device for non-urgent activity. I used to be on PagerDuty for
7on/7off and I forewent my normal life during those days to ensure I could
respond. Sometimes I'd go to a bar with my backpack and sip with
coworkers/acquaintances, but it obviously disturbed the vibe not keeping up so
eventually I stopped.

I wouldn't go to a concert if I had urgent stuff that could happen. Family
emergency? Shit, we'll we've managed until now, life happens. The external
cost to social skills and ambiance are so great, as we can all observe, that
that one act of nature edge case isn't worth the external costs (we can agree
to disagree).

~~~
nradov
That may work for you as a single individual but in general it's just not
realistic. Times have changed. The world has moved on.

~~~
pythonaut_16
A better solution would be to give out the password to the WiFi then throttle
it to slow enough to be unpleasant to use, but fast enough that no one gives
up and disconnects.

------
amatern
Interestingly, Boston Calling won't enforce this rule:
[http://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyle/names/2018/01/24/going-...](http://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyle/names/2018/01/24/going-
boston-calling-jack-white-says-cellphones-
allowed/2Id9jijFqCN3DtjlhizawK/story.html?s_campaign=bostonglobe%3Asocialflow%3Atwitter)

and also - Pearl Jam has released information on their upcoming tour - the
tickets themselves will be SmartPhone only (from their Fan Club site, Ten
Club):

Ten Club Mobile Tickets: No will call. No physical tickets. In order to
distribute tickets more efficiently, Ten Club will be delivering all Ten Club
tickets directly to your smart phone. Mobile ticket delivery requires an
iPhone or Android smart phone. Instead of scanning a physical ticket at the
gate, members will access tickets through their smartphone and scan directly
from the screen of your mobile device. Step-by-step instructions on how to
access your ticket on your phone will be sent to all Ten Club ticket holders
via email when they are ready for mobile distribution. We plan to have this
delivered to you by early July.

~~~
monksy
Mobile tickets; There are a few ways that they handle this. They may have a
seperate line for mobile tickets, and then hand you a printed out reciept and
then they deface your phone.

When I used the mobile ticket with the The Killers at the UC, they gave me a
paper copy of the ticket for the seat info.

------
jasonthevillain
I was about to buy Jack White tickets today and... I think I'll pass.

Don't get me wrong. I've seen several shows, including Jack White, that
politely ask the audience to keep their phones away for part or all of the
show. That's fine with me and it basically works.

But as much as I'd like to see Jack White again, I really don't enjoy being
treated like a child.

~~~
acdanger
I don't get your response; would you not go to a state park because there's a
rule against operating motorized vehicles on the hiking trails?

~~~
jasonthevillain
Not at all. I also go to all sorts of concerts that don't allow cameras. It's
the "how" that rubs me the wrong way.

Your state park would indicate "no vehicles beyond this point" and I assume if
anyone starting driving on the hiking trail they'd be asked to follow the
rules or leave.

That's different than insisting you hand over your keys in order to enter the
park. That wouldn't feel quite right, would it?

------
CaptainZapp
FAN! FUCKING! TASTIC!

Sorry, I'm aware that yelling is not appreciated, but this is a really cool
idea.

There's hardly anything more annoying at gigs than those dunces in front of
you recording some ultra-shitty video that nobody ever looks at.

Those small screens are a real distraction and phones also don't really serve
as substitutes for lighters used, when Led Zeppelin started with Stairway to
Heaven.

A rant about this specific song is reserved for another comment.

~~~
zimpenfish
> There's hardly anything more annoying at gigs than those dunces in front of
> you recording some ultra-shitty video that nobody ever looks at.

Au contraire. The people on either side having a conversation about their
weekend dinner party whilst Lisa Gerrard does a quiet solo piece are
_infinitely_ more annoying than any camera phone. Or a lady with big hair in
the first 3 rows sitting on someone's shoulders and blocking out half the
stage for half the crowd.

~~~
slantyyz
Why does it have to be either/or?

Why not ask people not to talk disruptively and disallow people from sitting
on someone's shoulders in addition to the phone ban?

~~~
hashkb
Because they will break any rule you set. People at concerts are inebriated
and uninhibited. That's the point. So you do actually have to physically
enforce any rules you want to exist at a rock show.

~~~
slantyyz
Well it's a chicken and egg thing. If rules are never enforced at concerts,
people will continue to break the rules thinking nothing will happen to them.
If rules tend to be consistently enforced and people know they run the risk of
being ejected from a concert, people might be more likely to behave a little
more.

------
olivierlacan
The Yondr demo is quite impressive:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2A38Nxz8sc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2A38Nxz8sc)

It's simple (thick cloth pouch with a powerful magnet lock), allows you to
remain in physical custody of your device (which wasn't clear from the
article) and creates a forcing function for people who need to use their phone
to simply exit the venue and get it unlocked at a kiosk.

~~~
15155
Some possible circumvention:

\- Don't disclose your phone

\- Put a cheap ringer in your pocket

\- Cut through the package in the parking lot and re-enter

~~~
monksy
At shows you usually go through a metal detector, which will find the phone.
The venue will "ban you from going in" if you refuse to allow them to deface
the phone.

Source: Me. (I'm not going to accept the whole phone defacement ordeal)

~~~
4ad
Metal detectors?? At shows?? Luckily I have never seen such a thing in Europe,
but undoubtedly we will copy the US in a few years. I can't believe how much
we've degenerated.

------
davehtaylor
I despise the fact that people think they need to have their phones in front
of them the entire time, taking shitty pics and videos that they'll never look
at again.

However, I would never support an artist/performer who tries to prevent me
from using my own things. It's not their right to tell me that I can't pull
out my phone if I choose to do so. It belongs to me. So while I would never
actually have my phone out during a show like it, I would never actually go to
a show that would prevent me from doing so.

~~~
TomMarius
The venue is not yours. The owner (and thus the performer) sets the rules. If
they want you to come in pink clothes, they have every right to not let you in
if you're not entirely clothed in pink.

On the other hand, you have every right to not go to the event.

I also don't like these phone pouches for many reasons. As I said earlier
under this post, Eddie Vedder also forbids phones. He'll just stop doing
whatever is he doing and wait until everyone puts it away. And that's his
right, your statement that he can't do it because the phone is yours is wrong.

------
jasonkostempski
I've heard of a few artists doing this over the past year or so. I think the
banning is ultimately useless and enforcing it adds more invasiveness to the
already overly invasive process of getting into a venue. A simple reminder
before the concert starts that you're an asshole if hold your phone up is as
far as this should go, works fine in movie theaters.

Maybe phones should have a feature to take pics with the screen off, more like
a disposable camera. They should have that feature anyway.

~~~
epicide
> works fine in movie theaters.

Except when it doesn't. I can't remember the last time I went to see a movie
where somebody didn't light up the place with their phone at least once during
the film.

> phones should have a feature to take pics with the screen off

This quickly gets into a creepy territory. I realize there are already ways to
do this and there are hidden cameras, but we should probably maintain _some_
barrier to entry.

~~~
4ad
> I can't remember the last time I went to see a movie where somebody didn't
> light up the place with their phone at least once during the film.

This has never happened to me in Europe, ever. It's an American thing. Also,
in the US I can never properly enjoy a movie at the cinema because people are
always talking or laughing.

The behavior of people at venues is largely dictated by the local culture.

------
PhrosTT
Comics are doing this as well (Dave Chapelle, Joe Rogan, etc).

Wholly supported.

Relevant:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRf36vRAWF8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRf36vRAWF8)

~~~
RcouF1uZ4gsC
One of the reasons a comic might do that is to avoid being the target of a
Twitter outrage mob over a recording of them doing an insensitive joke.

~~~
monksy
Or they do it because because they don't want to be called out on a bad set.
(I've heard a venue guy from Detroit pointing out Chappel for that)

Found the article on the Detroit one:
[http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/dave-chappelle-
fans...](http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/dave-chappelle-fans-demand-
refund-detroit-performance-article-1.2199045)

I could have sworn he had issues at a PA show as well, but that was recorded.

Hannibal Burress doesn't like it because he said some unverified bits about
Cosby and got caught. (Unsubstiated at the time)

~~~
ghostbrainalpha
'unverified bit'... is not a thing.

Comedians tell jokes, they aren't news organizations that need to do fact
checking.

And even if they did hold to that standard, what a crazy bad example to pick.
He was correct. So you think he got 'caught' telling a joke that had true
facts that hadn't been verified yet?

~~~
monksy
Comedians can tell jokes and make exaggerations, but they can't fully go out
and slander. (Even if it later comes out to be true)

------
JanecekPetr
Mister White follows up on his ideas, but this seems to be unnecessary, at
least from what I saw at his concert in Prague, Czech Republic, last year.

Before the show one of his crewmen said to all the people to keep their phones
in the pockets, that the show will be profesionally photographed and the
photos will be on the official Jack White site for everyone to download.

This helped immensely, and I'd guess 95 % of the people kept heir phones
hidden and enjoyed the show. Yes, there still were some who recorded alllllll
the songs, but that's their apparently their thing afterall, isn't it? I think
this approach was nice, human, and worked very well.

~~~
arkades
> Mister White follows up on his ideas, but this seems to be unnecessary, at
> least from what I saw at his concert in Prague, Czech Republic, last year.

Mister White attended a few more Jack White concerts than you did, and appears
to disagree.

------
mseebach
Perhaps an outright ban is a bit heavy-handed, but we do need to come to terms
with what the appropriate etiquette for the usage of personal electronics is.
I guess I could care less is someone wants to spend a show checking Facebook,
but it's rude to other guests if their screen grabs your attention or it
blocks your view. This ties into general camera usage -- wanting to take a
picture (or 50) does not entitle you to squeeze in front, or otherwise
monopolise the path/area in front of the painting/sculpture/view, nor does it
excuse bumping into people while you scuttle around for the right angle.

A particular thing I find very unnerving, is the playing of media on a phone
or tablet with the audio on in a crowded public space, typically, but far from
exclusively, for the benefit of a child. A close runner up is people keeping
audible notifications on their phones or laptops while using it - the sound
grabs everybody else's attention, too.

~~~
slantyyz
>> but we do need to come to terms with what the appropriate etiquette for the
usage of personal electronics is.

Isn't it actually simpler than this?

To me, it's just about being aware of your surroundings, and acting
appropriately.

The people who are disruptive at live events, movies, airplanes and other
public places seem very focused on "what I want to do" and are ignorant of the
fact that there are other people are around whose experience could be
negatively impacted by their behavior.

~~~
epicide
Exactly. There are always going to be a few people who don't care if they ruin
it for the rest. To them, they are the only ones that matter.

------
UntitledNo4
I don't know, how about we embrace mobile phones in gigs instead? Arcade Fire,
for instance, asked the audience to turn their flash light on during their
last song (don't remember which one it was) last time I saw them. It was
beautiful from where I was standing at that moment. And there's also a video
of Win Butler taking a mobile phone from someone in the audience and recording
himself for a few seconds
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpgyv6naF3M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpgyv6naF3M)).
I'm sure that someone with more creativity than I have could come up with an
idea how to use mobile phones to enhance the experience to the audience and
the performer, rather than just viewing them as an annoyance.

~~~
melq
>I don't know, how about we embrace mobile phones in gigs instead?

Because its the exact opposite of what he's trying to do here? Music is an
inherently human experience, why do we need to bring computers in to all
aspects of our life?

------
ghaff
This is almost universal at live theater. (Some exceptions but not many.)
Which is mostly a good thing. Although on Broadway, I've seen ushers get IMO
overly aggressive just because someone snaps a shot at the end of a
performance or whatever.

------
logfromblammo
_Just throw your hands in the air..._

 _...and hold your phone up there so the person behind you can 't see me with
their actual eyes!_

People who record phone video at concerts are the worst. If you want to re-
live your experience later, a lot of promoters now do a professional recording
from the floor and on stage with multiple cameras, and they sell download
authorization keys at the merchandise booths. Buy one of those. If you can't
enjoy the thing you're at right now, please don't ruin it for the people
around you.

------
jdlyga
This is a pretty good idea. Dave Chappelle does it before all of his comedy
shows. But I'm not going to be part of some sort of rally against phones. The
guy on his phone not talking to the person sitting next to him is just the new
guy with his head in a newspaper.

------
brandonmenc
I went to a Prince concert where phones were banned, and it was the greatest
experience ever.

I think it's fine for people to snap a photo or two and be able to check their
messages during the show, but when half the crowd is holding up phones to
film, it's super annoying.

------
hateful
For me, as an introvert, having my phone to play a game on has changed
everything for me. Instead of not going to a social event at all, or leaving
early when I'm feeling drained, I can take out my phone for a few minutes here
and there to zone out and recharge my batteries.

If I found out a venue was going to take my phone as I came in, that would be
a HARD no for me ever going to that venue. And if I didn't know about it
beforehand, I would be extremely irate.

------
herman5
Tool has been doing this same thing for years. The show I attended this past
summer couldn't have been more immersive.

~~~
jgrowl
I've seen tool and apc in the past couple of years and even though it was
officially no phones, there were still a lot of people with phones recording a
good majority of the show. It is quite annoying standing behind someone
shining a screen into your face. I can understand recording a short video,
like capturing the curtain drop. I really just don't even get why you would
want to pay to stand there holding your phone the entire time. The video won't
be worth watching and no one wants to see your crappy video!

Maybe I'm just weird, but a lot of the time at concerts I just close my eyes
because I find the visual stimulation of the entire thing to be too
distracting from the music.

"Time to put the silicon obsession down"

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u05S9cq2bLY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u05S9cq2bLY)

~~~
gyrgtyn
Someone at a ROCK SHOW blocking your view with a phone? just push them out of
the way and stand in front of them.

~~~
jgrowl
They were in stadiums with assigned seating. Which is also a reason why I
don't go to those kinds of shows very often. They feel so sanitized.

~~~
lostgame
Soooooo sanitized. I saw Gorillaz at the Air Canada Centre this year and felt
like a zoo animal.

------
king_wilson
While this solution is extreme, I do think we need a cultural shift that
discourages filming/photos at shows. I think of the College Football
Championship halftime show. 75% of the attendees were more focused on adding
Kendrick Lamar to their snap story rather than actually watching him.

Personally, I'm also sick of trying to watch concerts through someone's screen
in front of me.

------
parasubvert
People use their phones to have human experiences and connect to others that
aren’t physically present.

While I can understand certain environments should curb cell use (Where lights
and flashes are distracting to performers and the audience), or the desire to
maintain mystery or quality by controlling bootlegs... a rock concert has
distractions-a-plenty, between flying beer cups, weed smoke, people gabbing
loudly about their recent gossip, crowd surfers... a phone is really not a big
deal.

Curbing phone use might be nostalgic (why not also hand out cigarette lighters
for the ballads?) but doesn’t make the experience any more human.

~~~
doctorstupid
About these people who "use their phones to have human experiences and connect
to others that aren’t physically present". How is the sender anything more
than a human tripod for a webcam that happens to be in a concert? Nothing is
being shared because nothing is being experienced in the first place. If
anything, the camera is doing the experiencing.

By bypassing our minds and instead offloading experiences directly to the
digital middleman we reduce our powers of memory and lose respect for
ourselves as witnesses; we begin to feel that only what is digital is real.

Can you not see that we become less human by separating ourselves from the
intimacy of experience? We demote ourselves to mediators evaporating reality
to the cloud.

What musician wants to perform to a crowd of cloud-zombies? That's equivalent
to a crowd of no one. And they really don't care about the experiences of
those who "aren't physically present"; that's what recorded albums are for.

~~~
parasubvert
A person holding a camera is peresent at the concert and doing the
experiencing. I don’t understand how holding s camera at all detracts from
that experience any more than people at a ballgame watching it partially
through the jumbotron. It’s a personal preference, it’s not up to you to
decide for others what is preferable.

A phone is also an intimate device for many, it carries our most intimate
thoughts, our photos - often nude! - and possibly even sexual videos, along
with our banking information and every password to every app or site we touch.
Using our phones during art performances does not separate ourselves from
intimacy but rather embraces it and allows us to share it with our friends and
family and lovers.

Just wait until augmented reality really starts taking off!

I really don’t think a musician performing has any business whether I share my
experiences with others - that’s my prerogative. We’ve moved past the tired
arguments for copyright and bouncers yanking cameras - it doesn’t fly anymore,
and people won’t accept it. They can request no phones as part of the
experience, and check ahead, though I doubt it will become a trend . most
tickets are moving to phones as it is, and most rock music fans will rightly
look at bans as nostalgia, just like paying for recorded music once was a
thing (and still is for people over 40, but will eventually fade away).

Other venues like live theatre warrant less light and sound distraction and I
think still deserve etiquette of keeping phones down to between acts or sets,
though that may evolve.

------
tw1010
Technology were created by humans. Language was created by humans. Both are
abstractions that keep us from experiencing each other and reality in its true
form. Let's not trick ourselves into thinking that we're somehow getting a
true unambiguous connection with each other by removing technology.

To quote Simone Weil: "The world is the closed door. It is a barrier. And at
the same time it is the way through. Two prisoners whose cells adjoin
communicate with each other by knocking on the wall. The wall is the thing
which separates them but it is also their means of communication."

~~~
bluntfang
the dude uses an electric guitar, an electronic communication device.

------
noobiemcfoob
Why don't people enjoy the thing the way I want them to enjoy the thing!? What
is it with people having their own preferences that don't align with mine!?

~~~
fenwick67
Are asking why rules exist in general or

------
habosa
I honestly hope every single concert goes this way. I go to a lot of concerts
(~15 concerts and a big festival in a normal year). I have noticed that there
is so little real connection between the musician and the audience anymore.
Everyone is just talking to their friends (over the music) and waiting for the
one big hit to come on so they can fill their Snapchat story.

A concert is a really special thing. Music is the only popular art form where
we can really be there and connect to the artist. When you're at a show where
the band and the crowd connect you can tell it's something special. Read any
interview with a popular musician and they'll tell you the same.

So let's put our phones down and listen.

A side note: this is made much better when artists offer video/audio
recordings of their shows after the fact. I honestly don't get why every
single artist doesn't offer to sell soundboard recordings. Jam bands (notably
Phish) have been making tons of money this way. You can give everyone who came
to the show a free download and let those who couldn't be there oay for it.
That removes one major need people have for their phones.

~~~
banhfun
People enjoy concerts for different reasons and in different ways. I don’t see
why we should deny them the freedom just because you appreciate events
different.

~~~
antris
The thing is, when you create a sea of people looking at the concert through
their phones, you have already ruined the concert for the people who want to
live in the moment and just experience the concert as is. The phone ban is
created exactly for that reason: so that people can enjoy the concert without
having other people decide for you that the concert is much better enjoyed
when 20 phones are blocking your view.

------
aplc0r
I recently went to see A Perfect Circle who have instituted a no phones
policy. It seemed to work pretty well, even without these phone lockers. I saw
a handful of people escorted out by security.

It was really great to have only the concert's lighting without the
distraction of a sea of screens. Many people even pulled out their lighters
for one song, when at other shows I've often seen them defaulting to waving
their phones instead.

------
cmsimike
Lane 8 has been doing this for just over a year now with his "This Never
Happened" tour: [https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/could-you-handle-a-
phon...](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/could-you-handle-a-phone-free-
concert-this-never-happened_us_5834aaebe4b0a79f7433b1a9)

~~~
kev009
Came here to say the same thing, glad to see others know about him:)

~~~
cmsimike
Hopefully see you at a show soon! I'm looking forward to his new album tour

------
TomMarius
Eddie Vedder does this as well (not full on with pouches, just asking people
personally to put it away and waiting until they do).

------
owenversteeg
For those that are curious, he's going to be using Yondr pouches, which are
thick cloth pouches with a lock on them that can only be removed by the venue
employees.

I did a bit of Googling and apparently they cost about $10 each, so fairly
cheap too.

------
KhanMahGretsch
I don't see any harm in artists running this experiment, for many younger
audience members, it could be the first time they experience a show without
phones.

As long as such restrictions are transparent to the ticket-buyer, I'll allow
them to vote with their cash. This initiative seems to be an attempt by Mr.
White to sculpt the environment and experience at his shows, which is his
prerogative. Other bands routinely impose restrictions (Metallica won't allow
alcohol to be served while they're on-stage; Morrissey won't allow any meat to
be served at his shows).

------
squarefoot
I also don't like people playing with their phones during a concert,
especially those blocking my sight because they need to share a shitty
vertical video with friends just to climb the social ladder, but banning
phones tout court doesn't seem the right way to go.

So, what about writing a song about it in which the artist ridicules them? Or
in extreme cases stopping the performance until enough people put the phones
away?

------
j_s
Is there any phone app that purposely records video in the background without
turning on the screen? I wouldn't care as much if people holding up their
phones weren't shining back at me. I assume this is possible with audio,
though concert audio is usually way too loud to record on a phone without
additional equipment.

I believe this may not even be possible due to privacy issues, hidden cameras
/ recording without consent is enough of a problem already!

------
stillsut
How about we let flip phones with the speaker visibly ripped out still be
carried?

It has terrible video and audio recording capabilities, people know how to use
them already, and there's nothing on that tiny screen worth distracting
yourself/alienating yourself. Other than an SMS, and that's cool.

That's all the pro's of no-phones, without any of the cons of having to drop
off the grid for a few hours.

------
beat
Personally, I'd kinda like to see venues Faraday-cage the concert areas, so
people can't get online from them. That way, people could still take photos
and video, but wouldn't spend the entire concert on Facebook. (Thinking of
this due to a favorite venue of mine, the Cedar Cultural Center in
Minneapolis, that has basically zero cell phone reception from the floor.)

~~~
k1ns
Correct me if I'm wrong, but would this not be a massive security concern? No
calls in or out in the case of an emergency seems pretty frightening to me.

~~~
Posibyte
While I wholeheartedly agree, the devil's advocate within me likes to remind
that we had been mobile phone-less for years with no major concern.

~~~
pythonaut_16
We were without antibiotics for hundreds of years but no one's suggesting we
go back to that.

We were without mandatory seat belts for decades but no one's suggesting we go
back to that.

I just don't find the argument that there was a time where we did without
something as a compelling counter argument to the perceived utility something
serves today.

~~~
beat
Given the impact cell phones have had on auto accidents (someone using their
phone in the car is about as dangerous as a drunk driver, statistically), I'd
say overall, society is _less_ safe due to cell phones.

And, as I pointed out downthread... when's the last time someone actually had
to reach you via cell phone for an actual emergency? Particularly when it's
something you need to act on rather than just be informed? Virtually all the
use of our cell phones falls into "urgent but not important"... the
notifications alerting us that Someone Is Wrong On The Internet.

------
jsgo
I was at the first day of Carolina Rebellion this past year. A band I had
never heard of before, Highly Suspect, played and during it, the singer
(politely) called out a female fan who was using her phone (in what manner,
I'm not sure). Basically for similar reasons (experience the intimacy of the
moment sort of thing). I thought it was pretty cool.

------
problems
What's with the incessant need to tell other people how to enjoy an
experience?

I'm reminded of this xkcd comic:
[https://xkcd.com/1314/](https://xkcd.com/1314/)

~~~
Sir_Cmpwn
The main problem is that your way of "enjoying the experience" is detracting
from the experience of those around you.

~~~
problems
How so? Texting someone isn't distracting to anyone around you... unless I'm
missing something?

Are you really that easily bothered by other people that them enjoying
something in a different way than you detracts from your experience?

~~~
Lewton
If you're texting someone in a dark room you're annoying everyone around you

------
potta_coffee
Don't like giving up your phone? Don't go to the show. I am one of the people
who are more likely to attend a show if devices are banned.

Also people acting like this is a safety issue are being ridiculous. Does
anyone really think that no stage manager or security guard has a phone they
can access in the event of an emergency?

------
werber
The last time I saw him play, I got so bored during his solos I was beyond
grateful to have had my phone with me.

------
dvcrn
In Asia (Japan) it is very normal that phones are forbidden at concerts. You
are being warned first and if you take it out again to snap a picture for
example, they'll boot you out.

But here it's AFAIK more for the reason of selling a exclusive concert DVD
after the event is over.

------
pvaldes
As alternative, somebody in the crew could record the concert for then with a
crappy phone and let them download it for the next 24 hours using as password
some number or barcode printed in the ticket. The "see what you missed last
night" experience.

------
773js
OK maybe Thom Yorke and Jack White should do shows together and charge
$1000000 and call it real art.

------
ahdroit
"2014, Jack White criticised people at gigs who spend more time on their
mobile phones than watching the artist perform.

White suggested that he is “wasting time” performing for people who “can’t
even clap” because they have a phone in one hand and a drink in the other."

------
golergka
A lot of techno clubs have been doing it for years – makes the whole scene
feel much more human.

------
lwhi
The most human experience involves free will. This is doublespeak designed to
enhance the social media properties of the band and protect what they view as
their intellectual property.

I'd opt to avoid a band that enforced or suggested this.

------
mike741
Why not just kick people out that raise their phones? Seems like a waste of
time and resources to me. I'd much rather have to deal with the occasional
camera blocking my view than having to wait in yet ANOTHER line before and
after the show.

------
eigenhombre
I want this for movie theaters too.

~~~
deadmetheny
This is one of the reasons I love places like the Alamo Drafthouse, which will
outright kick you out if you use your phone during the show.

------
cup-of-tea
I think this is fine but maybe attendees should be given a complementary
recording of the concert as a substitute. These concerts are not every weekend
down the pub type events, they are once in a lifetime for many people.

------
deboboy
In Seattle Jack asked us to put our phones away; to connect with his media
team later for free hi def. photos if we wanted them. Everyone was cool; made
the show better.

------
cabaalis
Simple economics. People will weigh the value of being able to use their
phones and/or record the performance versus their want to attend.

------
yohann305
ok, people are going to carry 2 phones on them going to shows: the actual
phone and a decoy one

------
Animats
Well, OK, but the performance had better start on time. And no crappy warm-up
bands.

------
mruniverse
Looks like a “100% human experience” weeds out parents with young children.

~~~
asmosoinio
Why? Is it really that impossible to spend a few hours without being able to
communicate with whoever is taking care of ones kids? I don't think so.

------
Apocryphon
Great opportunity for Snapchat Spectacles to become relevant again.

------
IntronExon
Sounds good in theory, but is this really jut about stopping bootlegs?

~~~
elsurudo
Knowing Jack White, not necessarily. He's all about authenticity, and being in
the moment. Mobiles (for me) tend to ruin this at a live show.

~~~
beat
I know how he feels. I'm a musician too, and it's really demoralizing when
you're up on stage rocking your heart out for people, and you look out and see
people's noses in their phones rather than listening to you. (It's probably
more demoralizing when you're a tiny indie band playing for fun rather than
professionally, and there are only 20 people there and the only reward you get
is the chance to play for them.)

~~~
pecg
> when you're a tiny indie band playing for fun rather than professionally

Playing for fun is playing professionally, as long as it has passion.

> there are only 20 people there and the only reward you get is the chance to
> play for them.

I'm not going preachy here, but playing in front of people something you wrote
is an invaluable reward.

~~~
beat
I know. I mean, I _do_ this. I go to a lot of effort and expense to play music
for small audiences, solely for the pleasure that they're there to listen to
my songs. Which is why it's so sad when someone is busy reading social media
rather than listening.

------
jmkni
Is it just me, or is the NME site completely broken?

~~~
aembleton
Works fine for me with Firefox and Privacy Badger

------
WillReplyfFood
Cyborgs please cry your eyes out, you will get them back, afterwards good as
new- no spam i promise.

------
DaniFong
hells yeah, jack white; }={ell$fucking yeah...

------
hellbanTHIS
Great to tell people to put away their phones and not record because that
really is obnoxious, but to actually confiscate phones is fascistic and
shouldn’t be tolerated IMO. I mean who does he think he is?

~~~
geebee
I don't think it's fascistic at all. Think about it this way - I would like to
trade my right to bring a cell phone into group event in exchange for the
benefits I receive from participating in a group event without cell phones.

If you don't like that trade, don't make it! But don't deny those who wish to
engage in that transaction the right to do so by forcing them to have a "cell
phones are welcome" policy.

This is a rock concert. There is no coercion to attend whatsoever. You are
absolutely, 100% free to decline this transaction.

~~~
hellbanTHIS
I suppose. Venues won’t go for this nonsense anyway, it’s a potential legal
liability, they don’t care what you do with your phone and they have all the
power, not the band.

~~~
epicide
Pretty sure they can just require the band/attendees to sign away their
liability.

------
uhhhhhhh
He says signing into an electric microphone while playing an electric or
acoustic-electric guitar and standing on a stage in front of the crowd with
the sound projected from speakers.

Yes, I'm being facetious, but if he REALLY wants a 100% human experience,
shrink the room, go full acoustic and play only to small crowds and encourage
interaction rather than observation.

I actually love sets like that with artists, especially when you see
spontaneous collaborations between artistic minds and talents. I'll go to one
of those intimate, acoustic sets and pay 5x what I'd pay to go to any large
concert.

~~~
criley2
To be fair, Jack does tons of that too.

Heck, he's got a refurbished 1940's Voice-O-Matic at his Third Man Records, an
old time vinyl recording booth which lets you go in and records 2.5 minutes of
audio onto one unique vinyl.

He's very much about eschewing as much technology as possible and getting
people as close as possible to the sound itself.

~~~
uhhhhhhh
Agreed. I don't have an issue with this, I think what he's doing is great. I'm
just a sarcastic twat.

If he's at the point where he can focus his career on what matters to him as
an artist and not what the fans want in order to find financial success, then
all the power to him. I think its great and if it increases creativity,
connection and makes him and others happy, its the right thing to do.

------
comice
So is clapping part of the agreement when I go to a gig?

Why is it wasting time playing to people who don't clap. Is he doing it for
the claps? Why do I have to pay then?

Can I pay extra to get a ticket which allows me not to clap?

You can't clap with just a drink in your hand either, will he be banning
drinking at his gigs?

Is he using amplifiers or are they banned as part of this "human experience"
too?

I hate phone use at gigs but Jack White isn't really expressing how I feel
about them.

~~~
criddell
You're trying too hard to find problems. I'm guessing White would be okay if
you stayed home.

~~~
comice
I'd just like a bit more precision and perhaps more honesty. He says it's
about being a more human experience but I don't know what that means and he
makes no effort to explain it clearly, instead muddying the waters.

I have a similar problem with people who dress up their criticism of other's
behaviour as something "moral".

------
monksy
That's great for them. But I won't be buying a ticket for any of his shows.
After seeing what happened at the bataclan that makes this a stupid and
dangerous idea.

~~~
rayvd
Same here. Kick people out if they're violating your event's policy. This
pouch thing is just weird and big brother-ish.

Sorry people are downvoting you just because they disagree with your opinion!

~~~
ghaff
The pouch thing also just seems as if it would have a lot of overhead getting
in and out.

I don't really go to this type of concert so I don't know, but if people are
asked to silence their phones and put them in their pocket for something like
this, do many of them just ignore that? It's not really a problem at live
theater, classical music concerts, etc. but obviously the audience and
atmosphere differs a lot.

