
Thank you, Chris - lasr21
https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2019/08/29/thank-you-chris/
======
pablo-massa
I understand why this spark conversations about the current Firefox market
share situation.

But I also believe that Firefox's dominant past plays against when it comes to
analyzing the product right now.

Firefox is amazing, it works wonderfully, it continues to improve, respects
privacy, adopts Mozilla's ethical values.

Yes, not many people use it, but criticizing this point so aggressively I
think it is also influenced by the culture aiming at hypergrouth, dominance,
monopoly, "Move fast and break things".

I am very happy with what Firefox does for me right now. Imagine a situation
in which Firefox does not exist and today the product comes to light, it would
be a great celebration, and the market share would be zero.

Thanks Firefox, I love you very much, although there are few of us who use you
and maybe that doesn't change.

~~~
cbsmith
> Yes, not many people use it

It's a good 300 million people. Might be small in the grand scheme of things,
but it's that's bigger than all but a handful of countries.

~~~
est31
To be precise, it was 289 million on July 1st 2018, and 248 million on July
9th 2019. It was 239 million on August 24. Yes, the numbers are huge. Any
product that has this many users would be considered a major success, but the
trend is still troubling.

~~~
stebann
Anybody has some idea why that trend? Firefox is wonderful. I don't understand
why more people aren't adopting this amazing browser.

~~~
MegaButts
Why would the typical user make the effort to download Firefox when they're
already happy with Chrome? The typical user isn't on HN with strong opinions
on privacy, has little notion of what constitutes a tech monopoly, covets
convenience, and has already configured their one browser extension but
doesn't remember how (and it turns out that same browser extension isn't in
Firefox).

For most people, they can already see the internet in Chrome, or Safari, or
maybe even Internet Explorer. Why would they switch when they don't even know
what they're switching to or why?

Meanwhile Chrome has the full force of Google behind it, and Chrome is
actually one of their important projects that they aren't going to abandon any
time soon. It's really Chrome vs. the world, and Chrome is winning.

[https://www.w3counter.com/trends](https://www.w3counter.com/trends)

~~~
boomboomsubban
>Why would the typical user make the effort to download Firefox when they're
already happy with Chrome?

Why would more users make the effort in 2018 than in 2019? This doesn't
explain the trend though it's probably an accurate assessment.

~~~
wolco
Part of the answer is in how they collect those numbers.

------
spiderfarmer
Chris was great from what I have seen, but I think Mozilla needs a CEO that
knows how to increase market share.

~~~
huhtenberg
Mozilla is now openly peeing in Google's punch all the while being dependent
on piles of money they take from it.

At some point Google will get tired of this and will withdraw from the
agreement. They won't be the default search provider, but that will play to
their advantage - Firefox out-of-the-box user experience will take a sharp
nose dive. Say all you want about DDG and alternatives, but they still can't
hold a candle to Google's search quality. So what Mozilla will end up with is
(a) a dip in funding and (b) a dip in the user share. This might be just
enough to either make them reconsider their ethics or to kill Mozilla
altogether.

So, yeah, a good CEO that can shed the Google dependency is very much
required.

~~~
saidajigumi
_Say all you want about DDG and alternatives, but they still can 't hold a
candle to Google's search quality._

I'm rather torn on this point. On one hand, yes, DDG for example feels some
years behind Google in its relevance ranking. On the other, Google itself has
been degrading the quality of its own results with ads, etc. so badly that
they've seriously degraded their own "above the fold" relevant results.

~~~
byuu
I've always written off Duck Duck Go in the past, but lately after not being
able to find relevant info on Google, I've been giving them a go and have been
rather impressed. Especially on image results, which are way nicer to use and
give you direct image links. Plus they don't obfuscate all the URLs with
tracking redirects, so I can copy a link without visiting a page (that might
redirect the URL on me again.)

There's still some things they miss, and my main complaint with DDG is it's
too aggressive in taking the search you asked for and substituting in results
it thought you meant. I suspect that problem comes from their upstream
providers like Bing, which has similar issues.

~~~
icebraining
> Especially on image results, which (...) give you direct image links.

Google removed that after pressure from the copyright lobby (they got sued by
Getty). It'll happen to DDG too if they ever become big enough.

~~~
byuu
Oh, I wasn't aware of the lawsuit. That's ridiculous. Well in any case, I
wrote a Userscript to restore direct links to Google image results, and also
to filter out spam site results ( _cough_ e...-e...com), if anyone were
interested:
[https://byuu.org/other/script/google](https://byuu.org/other/script/google)

Middle-clicking or control-clicking will load the original images.

Bing direct links images as well so they'd probably go after Microsoft well
before DDG, so I think we're safe. But I can always do the same for DDG if
need be.

------
macspoofing
Firefox has been losing market share throughout Chris' entire tenure as CEO. I
think this blog post is a bit too congratulatory given that reality.

------
swyx
just want to give a shoutout to Firefox Focus and whoever is at Mozilla that
made it happen. absolutely fantastic no tracking one tab experience that has
made a dent in my browser tab management and privacy defaults like nothing
else has. thank you!

~~~
JeremyNT
It's worth noting that Firefox Focus is just another chromium-based browser.
If things keep moving in the direction they currently are, this may be the sad
fate of Firefox proper :(

~~~
gregknicholson
Happily, this is no longer true! [https://hacks.mozilla.org/2018/09/focus-
with-geckoview/](https://hacks.mozilla.org/2018/09/focus-with-geckoview/)

~~~
0xdeadb00f
The latest Firefox Klar on F-droid is still using Blink, according to
[https://whatsmyua.info/](https://whatsmyua.info/).

That being said, the F-droid version is probably out of date.

~~~
bugmen0t
That's an issue with the f-droid build config. Maybe worth filing a bug with
them and asking to change it?

------
dandellion
I hope whoever replaces him will inspire the Firefox team to stop dropping
support for features I use. Probably not, but one can dream.

~~~
jsty
Firefox is an open source project. I'm sure if you pitched in with time and /
or money to maintain said features, they'd be much less likely to disappear.

~~~
stonogo
Assuming this is naivete and not a deliberate attempt to mislead... Firefox is
an open source project, but here is no openness in the product management. The
decisions regarding features to keep or discard are determined by politics
internal to Mozilla.

~~~
dang
> Assuming this is naivete and not a deliberate attempt to mislead

Can you please edit out gratuitous swipes like that from your HN posts? It
breaks a number of the site guidelines and your comment would be fine (with
higher signal/noise) without it.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

~~~
stonogo
I'm sorry you feel that way, but I'm interested to know why you feel that way.
"It's open source, so it's your fault something doesn't meet your preferences"
is an extremely common conversation bomb in this space. I included the opening
phrase to highlight the fact that I'm aware of the possibility that this was a
bad-faith response, but I chose to interpret it in the best possible light.

What's gratuitous? Is "naive" considered an insult on Hacker News?

~~~
dang
Sure, naive is a pejorative. But the insinuation of "deliberate attempt to
mislead" is worse. The site guidelines ask everyone simply to assume good
faith, so there's no need to highlight the possibility of bad faith. Doing
that doesn't add any information and just distracts from the rest of your
comment.

~~~
throwaway2048
Smarmy replies like "just send in the patches" are at least as toxic and
assuming bad faith as what op said, yet are completely unchecked.

~~~
dang
If you're talking about
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20830097](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20830097),
that's not what jsty said. Please don't use quotation marks to make it look
like you're quoting someone when you're not.

It may have been a bit of a stock comment, but I see no evidence that it
wasn't in good faith.

------
mjw1007
Has there been any news from the Mozilla-Yahoo/Oath lawsuit?

[https://wiki.mozilla.org/Mozilla_and_Yahoo_Holdings_Oath_Cou...](https://wiki.mozilla.org/Mozilla_and_Yahoo_Holdings_Oath_Court_Case)
hasn't been updated since January 2018.

~~~
staticassertion
Oath doesn't even exist anymore, and is now Verizon Media, right? I imagine
that may delay things.

------
getlawgdon
I've used both products for as long as they've existed. Google's search
quality has become absolutely terrible and only reflects their ad strategy.
DDG has become superior in many important ways.

------
nautilus12
Been using firefox ever since chrome became unusuable from a memory
perspective to use without the great suspender a few years back. Been happy
with the change ever since. Hope the company continues to thrive.

~~~
bdcravens
I use Chrome with TGS, and I haven't really seen a disadvantage.

~~~
nautilus12
Well for one I can have many tabs open in firefox _without_ having to suspend
the page everytime I leave it and my computer won't catch on fire.

------
meerita
I wish the best for him. I returned to Firefox this year and it felt a good
product, one that goes in the right direction after so many years of Chrome
dependency.

------
mirimir
I mostly use DDG and Startpage. But sometimes Google, when I'm not having much
luck. But not via Tor, obviously. And even VPNs can trigger Google's "you look
like a bot".

I used to love Metacrawler. And I see that it's back, but just drawing on
Google and Yahoo!. Also by InfoSpace, Dogpile, which draws from more sources.
But I haven't used either enough to say much.

~~~
nvrspyx
Startpage already uses Google results. I guess Google's "personalized results"
must have a significant impact if you've noticed differences.

------
tinza123
on a side note, that's a really nice looking font

------
cloudytoday
Just downloaded Firefox again for the first time in ages...what's lame is that
some G Suite / Apps / Mail features are only available in Chrome forcing me to
use Chrome for work..

~~~
rosybox
What Google app features are not available in Firefox? I use Firefox and my
work uses Google's products and I never run into any issues with gmail,
calendar, docs...

~~~
cloudytoday
The "send later" feature in Gmail doesn't work outside of chrome and offline
mode for drive.

------
rescue_dont_buy
All good things must come to an end.

------
kurthr
Nitpick- Should this be, "leaving his role"? How about:

Chris Beard will be leaving his role as Mozilla CEO

~~~
xparco
Leaving has a negative connotation

~~~
CydeWeys
Does it? What alternative accurate wording would you suggest? Everything else
I can think of is euphemism. Leaving a job is ... leaving a job. It doesn't
say _why_.

~~~
rwc
When you leave, one has to be "left behind". It doesn't speak to an amicable
outcome.

~~~
jonathankoren
Do you only leave the grocery store after a fight?

I think you’re reading much more into this.

~~~
rwc
I think you're being naive to the way corporate communications work.

~~~
jonathankoren
Go home and spend time with your family.

------
thefrog
After what happened to BE, I'll never use or support Mozilla again.

------
EastSmith
Mozilla needs to fork Chromium, build a super good privacy shield on top of it
and thats it.

~~~
mathnmusic
What would be the difference over Brave then?

~~~
EastSmith
It will be handled by a well respected non profit foundation, rather than a
for profit company?

~~~
BrendanEich
Profit motive does not go away in a "non-profit" (FYI, Firefox is produced by
the Mozilla Corporation, which is the for-profit subsidiary of the Mozilla
Foundation; top salary last seen [2017] was $2.3M+). Mozilla depends for its
profits (to pay such salaries and bonuses) mainly on the Google search deal.

In my opinion, this conflict of interest between users and Mozilla's search
revenue share held back tracking protection in Firefox over the years. We (I
was there, this is all in public bugs and news now) rejected third-party
cookie blocking three times.

Meanwhile Brave has a transparent rate card, where we pay the user 70% of the
gross revenue for user-private ads, and 15% for publisher ads (not yet
deployed; the publisher makes 70% and we take same as the user). So we get <=
what users get, and we will fail if our users don't like the private/anonymous
ads+donation model enough to opt in at sufficient scale that we can cover our
costs.

------
cpow85
Hey Chris, You were our only friend. And I know this is belated: We love you
back

------
tuyguntn
Using chance to comment, even though I like Firefox a lot and writing this
comment from Firefox, I am switching to Chrome in Android.

Every time when I need to pay something web sites redirect me to my bank site,
which has good mobile app, Firefox doesn't open necessary app, which forces me
to log in again and again from browser, Chrome opens banking app, where I
already have all things set up.

This is one example of how Firefox Android is annoying, please fix, or keep
losing 90% of your market share, because people on mobile want this simple
feature by default.

~~~
snazz
Does the little Android icon in the address bar not open the correct app?

