
Stripe and Apple Pay - Peroni
https://stripe.com/applepay
======
nextstep
I'm not sure I understand Stripe's value proposition here. What is the benefit
of using Stripe's library over using ApplePay (PassKit) directly? (Honest
question)

~~~
pc
You can't use Apple Pay directly: you have to use it with a supported payment
platform. (List is at [https://developer.apple.com/apple-
pay/.](https://developer.apple.com/apple-pay/.))

~~~
awicklander
So is Apple Pay in essence another way to get a credit card processed against
stripe? If you have an app that customers can store credit cards on, it's not
clear to me what the additional benefit of apple pay is? Is it simply a
better/faster way of getting the card information to stripe by way of thumb
press as opposed to key entered?

~~~
evanspa
With Apple Pay, your physical credit card number is NOT stored on the iPhone
6's secure element; instead, a token is (the token is effectively an alias to
your credit card number; it looks like one too - is 16 digits, etc, so will
work nicely w/existing payment infrastructure). So there's additional security
there. If your iPhone 6 is stolen, you can report it stolen, and the issuing
Bank of your credit card will simply invalidate your token. You won't have to
worry about replacing your physical credit card. In contrast, if the merchant
--- whose app you have your physical credit card number stored within --- is
hacked, you'd have to get your credit cards replaced, which is of course more
onerous than the former.

~~~
induscreep
Just curious...does Google Wallet also do the same thing?

~~~
evanspa
No, Google Wallet doesn't. When performing a tap & pay at a merchant NFC
terminal using Google Wallet with your Android phone (running 4.4+), your
Google Wallet Mastercard card is the card-account actually being used vis-a-
vis transaction authorization. Then, later, Google will charge your card that
you've configured to be your default-payment card. I do not know if Google is
fully implementing Mastercard PayExpress spec, but they are implementing some
of it at least. Thing is, because Google Wallet is HCE-based, and thus there's
no secure element, they cannot permanently be storing the encryption keys
needed to generate the cryptogram(s) and such that are part of a standard EMV
transaction (Mastercard and/or the issuing banking of your Google Wallet
Mastercard - Bancorp[1] would never allow permanently storing the encryption
key w/out a secure element).

[1]
[https://support.google.com/wallet/answer/2676665?hl=en](https://support.google.com/wallet/answer/2676665?hl=en)

~~~
induscreep
Interesting. Does this mean that transaction data (what I bought, when I
bought) is visible to Google, unlike Apple Pay (claimed)?

~~~
evanspa
Yes, it is.

[http://www.google.com/wallet/faq.html#tab=faq-
security](http://www.google.com/wallet/faq.html#tab=faq-security)

------
Letio
Patrick,

Curious, was the majority of the work required to support ApplePay related to
the format of the PKPayment? I assume in other cases, you just pass the raw
PAN + pin, etc, where as now you need to pass the encrypted single use token +
cryptographic data + more. Was more work required to support ApplePay?

And if so, did Visa/MC/Amex and the processing networks recently start
supporting this payload, or has it been in place for some time?

Finally, what does Apple use the Merchant ID for?

~~~
tonyb
I think this all that extra stuff is a standard 3D Secure transaction
(Verified by Visa/Mastercard SecureCard). Apple has replaced the complicated
multi-step authentication process with TouchID

------
nlh
I presume from what I've read/seen, ApplePay will be app-only (i.e. iOS) for
launch. But I've got to imagine they (as in, Apple and Stripe) will integrate
with web-based payment forms as step 2.

Or, should I say, "I hope"...

~~~
MBCook
I doubt it. For one thing they'd lose the ability to ensure you're who you say
you are with TouchID, etc.

~~~
yahelc
Presumably, if they wanted to do a web version, they could introduce Safari-
only JavaScript APIs for verifying TouchID.

~~~
zwily
They could use Continuity-type stuff to have you verify the payment from your
phone, that's happening in your desktop browser.

~~~
unfunco
Which sort of makes sense with today's announcements, they said they had the
ability to now detect between taps and presses with the Apple Watch, that
technology seems like it could be easily integrated under a trackpad as-
well...

~~~
comex
Apple trackpads can already distinguish between a finger touching them and
being physically depressed, though I don't know what it has to do with
payments.

~~~
Alphasite_
Thats a very different mechanism.

~~~
comex
Of course, but it accomplishes something similar. Also, trackpads already have
the two finger tap for additional actions (i.e. right click menu), and I still
don't know what this has to do with the topic. :)

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bhartzer
It's great to see Stripe endorsing Apple Pay. But from a dev standpoint, how
difficult is it to integrate?

~~~
nmjohn
Stripe? A breeze. At least in comparison to other payment providers (I've
worked with stripe, auth.net, and paypal.)

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eyevinx
No API for web?

~~~
MCRed
Apple pay is a combination of hardware for authentication and security, with a
unified payment interface on the backend. It makes sense as a mobile payment
solution.

Using your device to authenticate web purchases is a more complicated and
difficult (and potentially insecure) prospect, and thus, will take longer
before it's viable.

Apple's normal mode of operation is to start with the smallest essential thing
that adds value, and then extend it over time. In a way, what we saw today is
Apple's idea of an MVP.

If the web isn't an area where Apple can add value, they won't do it. Or put
another way, if other people do a better job on the web (e.g.: stripe) then
Apple's not going to try and compete with them.

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jefftchan
Can we now use Stripe + Apple Pay to circumvent 30% revenue cut?

~~~
pc
Your Stripe pricing is the same if you use Apple Pay -- there are no
additional fees. (And no 30%.)

(We should update the page to say this...)

~~~
ajju
It looks like Applepay generates one-time cards by default resulting in a
single-use Stripe token. Does that mean the use case this supports is only
one-time payments versus "sign up with Apple pay+Stripe"? Any advice on how
best to integrate Apple pay for recurring pay scenarios like Sumon?

Edit: Some more context on how this all works from the other ApplePay thread
on HN: [http://clover-developers.blogspot.com/2014/09/apple-
pay.html](http://clover-developers.blogspot.com/2014/09/apple-pay.html)

~~~
pc
This supports recurring payments too -- you can associate an Apple Pay-
originated Stripe token with a Stripe customer object as normal, and then
create charges for that that customer. (This means that the Lyft use-case also
works largely unchanged.)

------
biafra
In which countries will Apple Pay launch in October?

~~~
MCRed
The USA. The other countries Apple has not been specific about.

I believe this will follow the pattern that Apple normally follows for complex
regulatory-involved industries (e.g.: the cellular carriers to support the
iPhone). They're probably already working on BRIC and the G8 countries, will
focus on them initially and then start rolling it out to wider and wider
countries (with deeper and deeper integration in those initial countries.)

I think this is going to be a multi-year process, assuming it's a success, and
it will be something that future keynotes include an update on (like "I'm
pleased to announce that Apple Pay is now in 80,000 retailers in 8 countries")

~~~
axman6
I'd be surprised if Australia wasn't one of the first countries to get it;
we've for a long time had very technologically advanced banks that are often
years ahead of the US. Last I heard cheques were still used by most people to
transfer money in the states, is that still the case? I've grown so used to
being able to instantly transfer money to anyone for free from my phone that I
can't imagine how tedious having to use cheques would be.

~~~
jawngee
No, nobody really uses checks anymore. Most payroll is direct deposit, person
to person is Paypal, Venmo or your bank's version of them.

Edit: bills and rent are possibly the last hold out, but usually you set up
bill payments through your bank.

~~~
stephenr
I remember reading tweets from an Australian that moved to the US (to work for
Apple as it happens) commenting on the banking system maybe 2 or 3 years ago:

Basically his experience was:

\- Cheques were still reasonably common, to the point that some bank(s) had
mobile apps to scan a cheque to deposit it!

\- "Bill payments" through a bank usually involved bank staff literally
preparing a cheque on your behalf, and mailing it to the biller

As for your comment about "person to person is Paypal" \- ok and what if I
actually care about what happens to the money, rather than it randomly being
held by some non-bank? Do US banks really not have a standard way to transfer
money to another individual electronically?

In Australia all that's needed are BSB number (Bank-State-Branch, a unique
identifier for each individual branch through the country) and Account number.
Transfers could take up to a day or two, the last time I tracked it

In Thailand, there is a similar system where money can be transferred directly
to an account belonging to someone else (or your own account at another bank).
So far it has always been _instant_ transfer.

Both of these systems are available via internet banking, mobile apps and in
Australia, phone banking (not sure about Thailand, promo material isn't always
in English)

I remember a few years ago a client in the US apologising for an incorrect
wire transfer to me, as he'd given the teller the wrong amount (swapped a 5
and a 2 or something). I was stunned to think that the founder of a tech
startup would not be using internet banking to make wire transfers to
contractors, but after reading about the cheque situation it occurred to me
that maybe he didn't have the choice.. can anyone confirm deny this is
available?

~~~
jawngee
Wire transfers are not common (other than Direct Deposit). Yes, banking apps
can scan and deposit checks. Most banks offer a paypal like feature to send
money to people. People prefer paypal to using those services though.

I sometimes still get paid by clients using checks, but most have switched
over to direct deposit or paying with credit cards.

International wire transfers are another beast due to the IRS and all the
regulation around it. You need their bank account, ABA routing number, name,
branch address, etc. I wire funds to Vietnam all the time, but there is a
limit to the frequency and amount that I can do. It also will raise flags with
the IRS, which is something to avoid.

Paper checks are suspected to go the way of the dinosaur in the US by 2028.

The UK is also a big check writing country too, fwiw.

And, honestly, checks aren't a pain in the ass. It's probably the same amount
of time/effort as logging into a website and sending money, except for the
time it takes to mail it or deliver it by hand.

~~~
stephenr
And then wait for it to clear, hope it doesn't get lost, order a new cheque
book, etc.

Edit: did you notice what I said about transfers in Thailand: instant. I can,
within about 90 seconds, send money to a person or business at any other bank
in the country. A cheque is only "basically the same time" if your scale for
comparison is years.

Cheques are absolutely a pain in the ass, and you're kidding yourself if you
think the us isn't woefully behind the times in terms of banking.

I thought thailand was bad when I tried to setup a foreign currency account,
but it's like Star Trek era banking compared to amercia

~~~
jawngee
If you asked for an opinion but already had your mind made up, why did you
even ask?

Checks are cleared almost instantly now. When you take a photo of it, it's run
through ACH just like a wire transfer is. At most, it takes a day depending on
when you deposit it.

I never said the US was ahead or behind either, that's something you
erroneously inferred. Checks are no longer common, as I said a few replies up.
Other than dealing with come clients that still pay by check, I haven't seen
one or dealt with them for years.

Also, I live part-time in Vietnam, so I know all about wire transfers thank
you very much. I also know what dicks Aussie ex-pats are too, thanks for
confirmation.

~~~
stephenr
Well that escalated quickly.

If you look again you'll see I didn't ask for an opinion, like "are cheques a
good way to transfer funds" I asked for confirmation/updates about a
previously documented fact - the use of cheques in us banking.

------
zengr
Related [http://readwrite.com/2014/09/09/apple-pay-paypal-
stripe](http://readwrite.com/2014/09/09/apple-pay-paypal-stripe)

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bmurali
Can Apple Pay be bypassed?

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thegreatpeter
What scares me is that Stripe knew my email address and prefilled the box.

~~~
amfeng
Hi! We only prefill your email address if you're logged into your Stripe
account while looking at that page. Hope that clarifies things.

~~~
berelig
And here I thought he was making a joke about his address being
j.appleseed@example.com.

Doh!

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jMyles
Something something Bitcoin something decentralized fiat currency blah blah
blah.

~~~
jMyles
I actually like Bitcoin a fair bit; I just thought it was a good first
comment. :-)

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eculic17
they're so on it!

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lifeisstillgood
Obvious question - when can I store my stellar or bitcoin in my apple pay
"wallet"? Or have I misunderstood?

~~~
lifeisstillgood
Ok downvotes, that wasn't sarcasm, it was genuinely a recognition that
Stripe's view on Stellar and the cryptocurrency ecosystem is coming closer -
with Apple offering what is to all intents and purposes a iPhone controlled
wallet with fingerprint security and locked down OS there is not a lot of
steps to go to reach a means of storing electronic currency which has a
security and convenience that is hard to imagine beating

~~~
sanswork
Stripe is receiving payments from Applepay not making them to Applepay so the
other payment methods they accept have no impact on Applepay.

