

Xmarks not quite dead yet - nod
http://www.xmarks.com/firefox/upgrade/3.9.2

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pvg
Xmarks might not be quite dead yet but it probably will and should be.

They seem really attached to the idea that the data (or as they ponderously
call it, 'the corpus') they have is very valuable. $9 million (with an
impressive $2 mil/year burn rate) later they haven't figured out a way to
extract any of that elusive value.

Browser bookmark sync is becoming a built-in feature in many popular browsers.
Cross-browser support is an edge case that overlaps with the functionality of
a number of web-based bookmarking services which generally offer a richer and
more useful feature set than in-browser bookmarking.

In the period of about a week they've persuaded fewer than 30k of their users
to _maybe_ pay them $10/yr. This is probably not all that surprising given the
above and the fact they've already announced that should they run into
difficulties, they'll simply give up. Short of Stockholm Syndrome, it's hard
to imagine why anyone would choose to rely on their service going forward,
even if someone is foolish enough to buy them out.

~~~
SkyMarshal
Problem is I stopped using Delicious years ago. I need my bookmarks in my
browser. If I have to go to a website to find something, that's going to be
Google or DDG.

A great solution would be for Delicious/Yahoo to buy Xmarks and integrate the
two technologies - your bookmarks are stored on Delicious as they currently
are, but synched to every supported browser you use.

~~~
pvg
_Problem is I stopped using Delicious years ago._

That sounds like a personal problem! More seriously, there are several
extensions that provide in-browser interfaces and local storage for
bookmarking services.

For the hardcore bookmarker, there are even a desktop apps - the ones I know
of for OS X are Delibar and Pukka.

Personally, I don't find the browser integration extensions terribly useful.
In the case of Firefox, the Bookmark Manager is probably slower than using
just about any bookmarking service. It's certainly slower and clunkier than
pinboard.

Firefox's Live Bookmarks can also be used to give you a local menu of
bookmarks if you point it at the RSS feed of a bookmarking service. I think
there are extensions that let you do that in Chrome and Safari as well.

~~~
blaix
I tend to use Delicious for "this is interesting" type stuff, especially stuff
I want to share. I use my browser's bookmarks for stuff that is only important
to me: work-related stuff, bill stuff, etc. Having cross-browser syncing for
built-in bookmarks in addition to my Delicious bookmarks has been great. I'm
hopefull they can live on and pledged my support.

Edit: There's also bookmarklets. These are not a good fit for Delicious.
Having these synced as well is wonderful.

~~~
SkyMarshal
Thanks a good system, I might start doing that too.

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wyclif
@PinboardIN _Wow, xmarks is dead because they couldn't "find a scalable
business model" with two million users._

@xmarks _@PinboardIN hey if you've got some good ideas, we're all ears!_

@PinboardIN _@xmarks the model that has worked well for us is 'charge people
money for a useful product or service'_

<http://twitter.com/PinboardIN/status/25734453850>

~~~
hellweaver666
I love pinboard.in - I signed up when they were charging about $1 per signup
and it works perfectly for me, the guy that runs it even setup a feature on my
request and within about 24 hours of me requesting it! (tag specific user RSS
feeds).

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w1ntermute
Why didn't they explore the possibility of being acquired before just deciding
to drop everything and shut down?

Or maybe this was their strategy for getting enough publicity to get more
favorable acquisition offers...

~~~
agravier
My understanding is that they did try to sell Xmarks, but noone would want of
them until this announcement and the subsequent massively suportive reaction
from the community that revealed that people seem do infact be ready to pay
for the service.

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dasil003
I don't mean to be cynical, but... well played Xmarks, well played.

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Terretta
I like to be able to use whatever browser I want, whenever I want, use the
browser's native bookmarking, and have new bookmarks show up in whatever
browser I run next (not to mention show up on iOS Safari).

Bookmark something in Chrome, leave my desk, check the bookmark on the iPad.
Surf on the iPad on the train, bookmark some things, review those bookmarks in
Firefox on the PC.

The built-in bookmark syncs don't do this, unless you're willing to only use a
single browser on everything.

Xmarks does this. If you're a developer using multiple browsers, seems like
Xmarks would be essential kit.

~~~
blaix
It is definitely essential. It is one of the first things I install when
setting up a new computer.

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cyunker
Too late. I've already moved to Chrome sync.

~~~
cyunker
Sorry for the snarky remark. I think Xmarks is an excellent service and I've
been a happy user for 6 months+. But when you send out an email saying you're
done, and I move my bookmarks over to another service...well.....

For the record, Xmarks today is better than Chrome sync. If things work out
for them, I'll move back.

~~~
bmelton
I agree that it's better, but I don't think it's so much better that I'd be
willing to pay them even $1 a year for the improvement.

It would take them being insanely better, and offering something that I really
need (the 'which bookmarks go where' feature is almost it) to entice me into
paying for something I'm getting in-built onto my browser that is free.

It sucks for them, really, because even a year ago I'd have happily paid them
the money. Cross-browser (Firefox -> Chrome sync) would have been worth it
then, as would the segregation of 'personal' bookmarks from my work PC, but at
this point, Chrome sync is in place, it's the only browser I use, and what's
left just doesn't convince me to give them money.

I wish them well, but they should have been charging years ago really.

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nod
tl;dr: 27K people have pledged $10/year, they'll be viable with 100K

~~~
hop
There is a big difference between anonymously pledging and cutting the check,
but who knows.

~~~
jacquesm
Yes, the one time I tried that the rate was about 100:0.

It sure dented my confidence for a bit, I thought we had a deal there.

~~~
SkyMarshal
Yeah, they probably should have skipped the pledge step and gone straight to
the pay me step. Capitalize the attention while you've got it, and use real
money as your metric for staying open or not. If you don't get enough, refund
the credit card charges and close.

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iburattini
This is a very sad news...... I know I can find other services, but I added
this to my mom and dad's computers, and they do have now all their bookmarks +
passwords saved.

No, they don't even know that (Xmarks) is running, and I don't even know how
to tell then "hey, you should pledge 10 € here..."

That made me think: how many moms and dads are using this service??

~~~
leonroy
My mum, my dad, my sisters, my wife, my grandpa, my grandma, my aunt, my
cousin...

Only one person's willing to pay in my family...me :-P

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Tyrannosaurs
Is the problem with starting free that you get people used to the idea that
this is not a service you pay for?

Freemium (get a small service for free, pay for a better one) is one thing but
this is "this used to be free, now it's not". At the very least that jars.

I think the real issue is that the likes of ChromeSync make the longevity of
this business model very questionable.

Joel Spolsky once described this sort of thing as grabbing nickels from the
path of an on-coming steamroller - you're making money out of something that
the product should or will inevitably do as a standard feature. Yes there is
money there for a while but inevitably the steamroller is going to flatten
you.

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mike-cardwell
I would happily have paid $10/year, but as soon as they made the announcement
I went looking for alternatives. I was surprised to find that if you're happy
just syncing between Firefox installs, "Firefox Sync" does everything XMarks
does, (Bookmarks, Passwords, Preferences, History and Tabs) but with a slicker
interface. And it will also be built into Firefox 4 rather than having to
install the addon...

I no longer see the point in paying XMarks for it...

~~~
ldh
There are fine solutions within any single browser. But that's just a non-
starter for those who don't want to be restricted to one browser across all
environments.

~~~
mike-cardwell
I tend to stick to one browser across my various machines. If I wanted to
start using Chrome I'd just export my bookmarks from Firefox, import them into
Chrome and set up syncing with Chrome.

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blaix
When I read the announcement that they were closing, my first thought was "I
would have paid money for this". I'm glad I may be able to if it means I'll
get to keep using it.

~~~
DougWebb
When I read the initial announcement, and the subsequent comments, by first
thought was "Oh, I didn't know Firefox provides this functionality now." I
switched over immediately, and I don't plan to go back. Occasionally it's
annoying to only have my bookmarks on one browser, but I typically only use
one browser anyway. Most of the time I'm on Firefox, but when I need the
corporate intranet I use IE. I have no desire to share all of my bookmarks
with the intranet's ActiveX controls, so I'm happy to not be syncing them
over.

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FindSimilar
It is a sad story. Xmarks is the best sync tool now but competition is coming
from two big guys.

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lotusleaf1987
Why don't they just charge for their iPhone app and use a fremium model? I'm
blown away that they can't figure out a way to monetize 2 million users. If
they don't get acquired I will be very shocked. I pledged that I am willing to
pay, it's a bargain for how useful their service is. Also, why don't they just
use kickstarter.com??

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McKittrick
It's just a flesh wound! <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4>

