
Spend analysis of 6 years, 686 rides, and $12k spent on Uber (2017) - lamby
https://nealmueller.com/uber/
======
gormz
I think the real problem is that you had expensive cars. No shit you save
money when you take ubers rather than owning a BMW M3 and (what I assume) was
a decked out wrangler. If you bought a sensible car, your monthly costs could
be much lower.

~~~
nealmueller
Hi, I'm Neal, author of this analysis. Yes, you nailed it. I was just thinking
today about what older car (2014 or earlier) I could buy for $10,000 or less
that had adaptive cruise control and lane assist. That would allow me to
disengage mentally a little from driving without suffering depreciation. Is
there a way to search for what's the oldest car (e.g. Civic) that has these
features?

~~~
burkemw3
Please don't disengage mentally from driving. If you think you need to do
that, take a break instead.

~~~
spookthesunset
Don't knock adaptive cruise control until you try it. It is significantly
better than plain-vanilla cruise control. I've found that when I use it, I
tend to stop caring about if I'm driving "too slow" \-- it makes me a less
aggressive driver.

~~~
Someone1234
My current car has it. The person you're replying to is still correct, if you
need to "disengage from driving" then pull over and take a break.

Adaptive cruise control makes driving less stressful/more pleasant but you
still have to be mentally there. No system is full proof, and certainly not at
this stage.

------
hn_throwaway_99
Comparing the costs of Uber against ownership costs of _2_ cars for _1_
person? Why not buy a third car and make your savings look even better?

~~~
Cacti
He's counting depreciation of an M3 in there, too... why not buy a fighter jet
and make the savings look even better?

He didn't give up his cars until uber pool, so for a great deal of the data he
is using uber in addition to his regular car, which limits his uber expenses.

Because the largest portion of his savings comes from the shift to uber pool,
this is completely invalid for anyone except a single adult. Anyone with a
spouse or children, or anyone doing even average shopping, anyone not in a
major downtown, will not be seeing these savings.

He's only traveling around town, and seemingly only using Uber less than once
per day, even during his peak usage. Is he using public transportation? Google
transportation? Friends? I don't see how one can get to and from work, and run
errands, and go out in the evenings or on weekends, and average 200 rides per
year (again, during his optimum savings period). Is he working from home most
of the time?

He mentions renting cars for longer trips, but this is not included in his
costs. In addition, his uber trips are all in SF... like, yeah, if you only
travel within a major US city, transportation costs can be pretty low (and why
not just use public transportation?).

All of this implies to me that, not only are his calculations wildly off, not
only are his uber costs under-reported, but even with all that, the entire,
incredibly ideal, situation is reproducible only by a very small minority of
the population. Alternatively, the other interpretation is that he was wildly
overpaying and under-utilizing his cars before.

Here is a more realistic calculation for a US resident: 30k car, 10 years 10k
gas, 5k insurance, 7k repairs = ~5k per year.

vs.

4 trips per day, on average, for 1-2 persons @ $20 per trip = $29k per year.
And that's being generous--I'm pretty sure my spouse and child and I would
blow through at least $50k a year if we switched entirely to Uber, and we have
a very typical travel pattern for the US.

~~~
VintageCool
He does use public transportation, but only makes a one word mention of it:

"My rides increased a lot in June 2016, when I sold both my cars. I’m solely
reliant on Uber (and buses) to get around town in San Francisco."

~~~
Cacti
Ah. So basically he is not saving money now, he was just wasting it before.

------
burger_moon
Since everyone is already weighing in on their experiences I guess I'll add my
own,

I went 2 years without a car and it was great when I was in the period of my
life where I wanted to be head down and studying to get a better job. I spent
almost nothing on Uber because I used public transit or walked everywhere. I
can count on one hand the amount of times I used Uber, seriously.

Even after I bought my house which is in a suburb kind of in Seattle I
continued to go car-less which included a 3mi round trip walk to the grocery
store. Didn't mind it much, just had to plan around the weather.

However I moved to the PNW so I could get outside and experience it, not spend
my life in the city. Going hiking means 80-100 mile round trips easily on the
weekend and Turo, reachnow, zip car were just not ideal for this. Cost is
prohibitive if you're doing it every weekend. That's a minimum of $80-$100 * 4
if I go out just one day on each weekend.

I bought a beater truck for under $3k. It has 4wd and a bed to toss all of my
gear in. It's the perfect vehicle. Insurance is super cheap, only need
liability because who cares if it gets totaled it's already banged up. I can
run to Home Depot and get stuff for my projects around the house, toss my
bikes in the bed, do my shopping. It covers all the bases and gives me the
connivence of not having to deal with finding a reachnow car or meeting up
with someone for Turo, etc. One important caveat, I also do my own repairs so
if you aren't mechanically inclined it might not be the right choice. I only
drive the vehicle on the weekends and still commute via bike or bus to work.

I also noticed that because of my inherently cheap nature I wouldn't rent a
vehicle to go do these things even if the end result is that it's cheaper than
car ownership. My brain just can't get over the fact that I'm directly paying
for the hike, or the trip to the store, etc. I think a lot of people also feel
this way and idk how to overcome that kind of irrational thought, but in the
end the opportunity cost of having a vehicle is worth it, if it means I'm
actually getting out and doing things I enjoy instead of staying home or in
the city.

~~~
abc_lisper
I get the sentiment but I buy a new car because of safety features. I drive a
Honda,will drive it for many years until something safe and cheap comes along

------
jopsen
> What could $703/month buy you? Well, four years of $703/month and you’ll
> save enough to climb Mount Everest unguided.

I'm not sure the price tag is what's stopping me from climbing Mount Everest
_unguided_ :)

~~~
Moodles
hah, quite a bizarre choice of what to do with $33744

~~~
sramam
Not so much once you realize the author has actually climbed Mount Everest!

------
peterwwillis
Compare this to Philadelphia, where a monthly Septa pass (that's
bus+trolley+subway) is $96. That's a savings of $856/year over Uber. I have
been carless for three years and my savings account is very happy now.
Regional Rail passes are $105, so you don't have to live in the city, either.

~~~
sdhgaiojfsa
Big supporter of public transit, but this is apples to oranges. Nine times out
of ten, the Uber is going to get you where you want to go a lot faster, unless
embarkation and destination are both on the same public transit line.

~~~
bunderbunder
I suppose it varies by city, but to me we're not talking about comparing
apples to oranges. We're talking about exchanging apples and oranges for
bananas, just in different ratios.

I lived carfree in Milwaukee for a while (picking that as an example of a city
that only has bus service), and the time savings really didn't seem that bad
once I got used to it. A trip to one of the shopping malls on my side of town
was about the worst-case scenario, and there it typically took ~40m on the
bus, versus ~20m by car. I like reading and I had a Nintendo DS at the time,
so that ~20m difference was spent doing what I would have probably done with
the extra time, anyway. I was just doing it without a cat in my lap.

An easy trade, I thought, considering that I was typically spending no more
than $10 a week on bus fare. Often more like $0, especially in the summer,
when it was more fun to get around by bike. Owning a car or using a taxi
service for my main way of getting around would have cost thousands per month.
That's quite a few fewer apples, and not a whole lot more oranges.

------
SkyPuncher
The really frustrating thing about this analysis is he completely ignores
mileage. However you split it, that's a huge factor in a vehicle's maintenance
cost and depreciation. He compared maintenance on vehicle that clearly must be
driven significantly more than he took Uber.

Since he also has two other vehicles, he was clearly using those to drive too.
He's sold them now, but he doesn't mention anything about the cost of Turo
which he suggests as an alternative.

I have no idea exactly what Uber breaks down to per mile, but ridester.com
suggests $1 to $2.50 per mile. Let's assume it's as cheap as $1/mile to give
him the benefit of the doubt and account for UberPool.

\----

At $1/mile, he traveled 12k miles over 6 years - or 2000 miles/year.

* Maintenance on 12k miles would basically be nothing. No major work should need to be done in a 12k window. Probably some wipers, some fluid changes, possibly a minor repair - let's just say it's $500.

* Gas - Let's assume 20 miles/galloon and $4 per gallon. $2400 over 6 years.

* Insurance - The most expensive part. 2000 miles/year is nothing, but insurance doesn't work that way. Let's assume a modest $500/year. - $3000

When you add that up it comes to roughly $6k left over. You can look at this
two ways.

1\. Try to buy a vehicle in the $6k range and assume no-resale value. You're
not going to get a great car, but it will be doable.

2\. Account for only depreciation. 12k is mostly negligible miles. The biggest
lost will be due to aging. That being said, as long as you avoid relatively
late-model year, you can purchase basically any mid-upper car and still break
even (like an M3).

Plus, in both cases you get the benefit of actually owning a vehicle and not
relying on 3rd parties.

\----

EDIT: He also mentions using Turo as an alternative for a car. That opens up
the possibility of him renting out an own vehicle on Turo. An M3 would likely
catch $100/day or more. Let's say $50/rental day gets to his pocket. If he
rents a out his M3 just twice/month (e.g. one weekend) and assuming the driver
hits the 100 mile/day standard. He'd add only 14.4k more miles (still not a
lot) and make an additional $7.2k. That pays for depreciation and leaves him
room to ride share while his car is gone.

~~~
tinus_hn
12000 miles in 6 years is 2000 miles a year, not 500.

~~~
stcredzero
2000 miles a year is what I seem to drive in SF. 10000 is what I drove in
Houston. Another example of how startups can be SF/Bay Area oriented.

------
jly
As others have noted, the depreciation and savings analysis is very
misleading.

Bottom line is that without the cars, he spends about $390 / month on Uber,
and likely that average may have increased given the extreme low summer
outlier months. In some areas where parking or insurance is expensive, this
could mean large savings. In my area (Austin, TX), the all-in cost of owning a
car with insurance is minimally more than this figure. You could lease one
brand new, moderately priced car + average petrol costs for about the same
amount. You could buy a cheap car and depreciation + maintenance would be even
less.

~~~
iamgopal
But so much of your mental time and energy will be wasted owning the car.

~~~
azhenley
The few times I have been without a car, I avoided going anywhere because
having to Uber makes it very real how much I'm spending just to go out each
and every time. Like going to the park or to the grocery store. So instead I
sat inside.

I'll never go without owning a car again. The ability to travel freely and not
feel some psychological burden about doing it is more than worth the cost of a
car to me.

NOTE: This is based on my experience living in Austin, Seattle, Memphis, and
White Plains NY.

~~~
krisdol
Had you considered a bike? I've lived in Austin, spent time in Seattle.
Ditching the car and using the savings to afford a more centrally-located
place in those places could make sense, especially when the alternative is
sitting at home doing nothing. It's not that scary to bike in those cities. I
always dislike going to the park in a car in general because it just feels
like I'm using the laziest and most polluting travel option to go exercise and
enjoy nature.

~~~
azhenley
Definitely! I had a bike in both Austin and Seattle. I used it for commuting
to/from work a few times a week and sometimes for picking up groceries. It
just doesn't replace a car for me though, but it is an enjoyable addition (I
didn't always live close to work, the climbing gyms I frequented were far from
my home and office, my friends were spread out, and I like to go out hiking on
weekends).

------
caleblloyd
The monthly savings calculation in this article largely based on the
depreciation of a brand new BMW M3. I think it would be good to use an average
vehicle depreciation in there for comparison.

~~~
willvarfar
The author says they had an M3 that needed replacing; they replaced it with
Uber instead.

~~~
arkades
Yes. I don’t think the poster you’re replying to missed the author’s position;
I think they were just pointing out that it generalizes poorly, since the
“savings” all pretty much came from that single source, which few other people
share.

As the author said: their other car held its value. If he’d had 2x of that car
rather than a BMW, the results would look wildly different. Most folks don’t
have that situation.

------
thisisit
Google cache link:

[https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:j_-
ohh...](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:j_-
ohhPT18AJ:https://nealmueller.com/uber/&num=1&hl=en&gl=in&strip=1&vwsrc=0)

Uber actually loses money on each ride. So I don't think the same analysis be
hold long term, especially when the company starts to raise its prices.

WSJ recently wrote an article on how it was possible to live in SV for free
thanks to the VC fueled economy. They gave example of a guy who financed his
Mini Cooper using startup deals, which I think is a better deal than
subsidized rides ;)

[https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-to-live-in-san-francisco-
wi...](https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-to-live-in-san-francisco-without-
spending-any-money-1525029628)

Archive link:

[https://archive.fo/PWVnU](https://archive.fo/PWVnU)

~~~
onion2k
_Uber actually loses money on each ride._

This is only true if you're using referral credit. In well established markets
(eg San Francisco) very few rides are subsidized, and Uber makes a healthy
profit.

~~~
martinald
Not entirely sure about that, they have very extreme driver turnover and are
constantly offering very expensive incentives to drivers.

I wouldn't be surprised if they are somewhat profitable in established markets
but I'm not sure if it's 'healthy'.

~~~
jryle80
For which companies are those driver driving post-Uber? There aren't many
choices, SF specifically.

Talking about turnover. Any ideas how that's for Uber compared to Lyft et al.?

------
lewich
If you don't buy BMW M3, then Uber won't save you 700/month. Figures look
viable only because Vehicle expenses were $11,783 per year. ~The 2008 BMW M3
was depreciating in resale value $8,333 per year. ~

~~~
gormz
Exactly. He had two very expensive vehicles. If he leased or bought a used car
that is not luxury, he could spend less than he does on ubers.

~~~
jonknee
Sure, but now he has someone drive him around (another type of luxury). It's
comparing two luxury experiences. Of course driving a beater or riding a bike
would be even cheaper.

~~~
mikeklaas
UberPool is hardly a luxury experience

------
odammit
I went carless about a year and a half ago in Los Angeles (wife still has a
car) and it’s been awesome.

I had a ratty 2006 liberty. Going through my bank history and tabbing up costs
for the previous years I figured if I spent $25 bucks a day on Uber I’d be
saving money. (Actually I spend about $18 / day)

Things I took into account were:

\- insurance

\- gas

\- parking tickets, garages and meters

\- maintenance (something expensive broke every few months)

\- Amex platinum gives a $200 credit / year for Uber

Qualitative-ish things:

\- time saved not parking (some days I’d spend 45 minutes trying to find a
spot in Venice)

\- time saved not forgetting where my car was parked or walking a mile to it

\- I do all of my emailing during my rides

\- credit card points

I’ll hopefully never own a car again.

Edit: also, zero road rage

~~~
pdeuchler
I don't mean to be a downer here but you're essentially saying that paying for
someone else's asset depreciation costs is cheaper than paying for your own
asset depreciation costs plus the remaining value on a car.

The reason it's more expensive to own a car is because you also own the asset.
And sure, cars depreciate ridiculously fast and are horrible stores of value,
but your solution is mostly saving money by offloading some risk to another
party.

~~~
nealmueller
Yes, offloading risk. I hope Uber pays drivers enough to justify the added
risk.

------
bronco21016
This analysis looks amazing. We’re currently a two car household with one of
the vehicles being a little older and slowly starting to lose some
reliability. Before rideshares it would be pretty important to go out and find
a newer, more reliable vehicle so I could ensure I make it to work. This
winter after the car sat for a few weeks it wouldn’t start. Rather than spend
30 min messing with it and being late for work I simply hopped in an Uber.
When this vehicle does meet its eventual demise I will likely advocate for
becoming a single car household.

The biggest hurdle ridesharing has in replacing vehicle ownership though is
the one off scenarios where having a vehicle is just so valuable in terms of
time and cost. We’re in the middle of remodeling our bathroom. We did plenty
of planning and sorted out all of the materials and tools we would need and
made a giant list. I went to Home Depot and bought just about everything in
one trip and loaded it in a truck and drove it home.

As the project has progressed though, there are constantly times where I find
I need a tool, or need a different fitting for the plumbing, etc. I just hop
in the car and head over to Home Depot quick and grab it. Uber would cost me
about $15 round trip for each one of those visits. I haven’t gathered the
receipts yet to track how many visits I’ve made but I imagine it would add up
pretty considerably. This is just one example. As an expecting father I can
only imagine how much of a nightmare loading a car seat in an Uber would be.

I love having the option of a ride share, and I think its fantastic for the
opportunity it provides those who many not have access to a car for various
reasons. However, I’m not sure ridesharing will ever reach the point of being
able to completely replace car ownership for the average American household.
I’m confident we’ll hang on to at least one vehicle for the forseable future.

~~~
dgacmu
Why wait? :) I did this a while ago (2car -> 1car, with a child), and have
zero regrets. We now have two kids, and are still 1-car'ing it, with the
occasional rideshare. It's fantastic not having to deal with the crap a less-
used car comes with.

I wrote up my analysis, with a spreadsheet you can plug your own numbers into:
[https://da-data.blogspot.com/2015/06/why-my-car-cost-more-th...](https://da-
data.blogspot.com/2015/06/why-my-car-cost-more-than-taking-uber.html)

We chose not to go zero car for many of the reasons you mention (and, in fact,
ended up replacing our 2007 ford focus this year). But going from two to one
is very freeing.

Loading a car seat into a rideshare isn't bad, btw - the LATCH anchors make it
almost routine once you're used to it. Our travel carseat is a little more
twitchy, but none of it is very bad.

------
nimbius
Speaking as an automotive mechanic, Uber/Lyft/taxi are functionally
indistinguishable from a fleet vehicle after the first year of service with
the notable exception that fleet vehicles enjoy cheaper parts and service.

Expect to see your brake/oil/air filter life cut in half. most of this is due
to idling in a fleet-like manner a vehicle with no accomodation for greater-
than-average idle times. Example: the crown victoria and F150 fleets sold to
government agencies can easily sustain a 3-6 hour idle as theyre equipped with
an enlarged intercooler so you dont cook the oil.

Suspension suffers but not appreciably as power steering fluid, which turns to
laffy taffy pretty reliably in these types of vehicles. Tire life in some
cases is notably shorter due to the prevalence of sidewall damage from
mediocre drivers dragging or hopping curbs. Fleet vehicles are equipped with
idler/pitman assemblies which, again, are cheaper to repair and service than
the more complex and expensive rack-and-pinion...which also isnt as durable
for fleetlike operations.

service times are also longer...so theres lost revenue. example: an AC service
on a Lexus takes damned near 4 hours (I'd want the car for the day.) Service
on a lincoln towncar? I might not even have to put the keys in the ignition.
Theres actually a factory tool you can order from Mexico that will do it in
about 11 minutes.

TL;DR: if you're driving for one of these taxi services, buy a fleet vehicle
used or new.

~~~
eof
I was not aware there were a subset of consumer vehicles that were considered
'fleet vehicles.' A quick google search doesn't show me: beyond crown vics and
f150 (all of them?) how do I find the full list of fleet vehicles?

------
zaroth
> Using uberPOOL, instead of uberX, I’ve saved on 301 rides * ($14.45 average
> UberX ride – $10.66 average pool ride) = $1140 savings. In exchange, I’ve
> sat longer in rides. That’s 301 rides * 8 minutes extra minutes per ride on
> average = 40 more hours in pool rides. $1140 savings over 40 hours is
> equivalent to Uber paying me $28.50 / hour to ride uberPOOL.

Since he’s paying Uber with after-tax non-deductible dollars, it’s actually
more like earning ($28.50 / .6) = $47.50 per hour.

~~~
nealmueller
True. Same holds for buying car, with post-tax dollars.

------
IkmoIkmo
Interested to see how he'd fare under carsharing as opposed to ridesharing. It
seems UberPool is about $30 an hour per hour, UberX $54. But car2go for
example is around $20-25 depending on the car and city. (not available in SF)
And that doesn't require you to share a car with other people (which is fine
as a taxi service, but perhaps too intimate for many as a daily routine).

That having been said, in terms of 'car hacking' he should be able to do much
better if he just bought a cheaper but reliable car. He never owned the car
for status purposes, his previous choice of car seems like a bad benchmark to
compare Uber to. 8k depreciation is just crazy, might as well just lease at
that point or buy a small, cheap japanese car, like a Honda Civic or
something. Maintenance is a few hundred bucks, you can buy em for two years
worth of his BMW depreciation, pretty fuel efficient. I think ridesharing is
great, but you shouldn't compare it to a newly bought $80k BMW benchmark imo.

~~~
lettergram
In 2010 I bought a Nissan Versa for around $10k (lightly used). It still runs
like a champ, the door handle has been replaced, a few belts, tires, oil, etc.
However, all the repairs in 8 years is less than $5k.

That's around $700 a year, and the damn thing has 165,000 miles. Still starts,
drives, no rust. Should easily be able to pull 200,000 miles off of it (or
another 2 years). I think the car today is still worth a ~$1k - $2k.

~~~
dorfsmay
But to compare it to car and ride sharing you need to add insurance, fuel and
parking cost.

Also, 165 k miles and you never had to change the timing belt, break pads etc?
Does the 5 k$ include all those costs?

~~~
lettergram
Yes, $5k covers this costs. A timing belt or break pads are $100 - $200 for
the whole thing. Insurance isn't included sure, nor is gas.

According to my mint, on average I spend $500 / year on insurance (two cars)
and gas is $1000 / year. I also get things like freedom to drive cross country
(which I've done) or go to national parks. Which adds value.

Take all that and its still what:

$8k + $4k + $10k + $5k = $27k

For 8 years... And I gurantee I travel more than 686 rides, as I drive pretty
much 365 days a year. Plus it has some value.

In many cases, as with most things, convenience comes at a premium. That's
what ride sharing is. I use it too when traveling, but the car is way cheaper
long term.

------
mkovji
Is Uber's plan more like keep making loss and keep pushing the world to a
state of rent a car for each ride and then get to a state of not own any car
and then ones we get to a state of no one owns a car and every one takes a
Uber then just keep jacking up the price at will and make more money out of
us, and at that point we wont have a car and instead of buying one we will
better say pay 5$ extra and take Uber and eventually reach a state where we
spend twice the amount or owning a car per month on Uber and some smart guy
figures out this and then we all go back to owning a car using Uber rarely at
times of need.

Y go the long route we can simply stay in the current or previous state and
use it like a taxi rarely wen needed.

~~~
TACIXAT
I think the endgame is self driving vehicles which would hopefully bring the
price down.

------
dannyw
I wonder how much his rides would have cost if Uber didn't classify him as a
'frequent rider':

[https://therideshareguy.com/uber-is-ripping-off-frequent-
rid...](https://therideshareguy.com/uber-is-ripping-off-frequent-riders-and-
heres-how-to-avoid-it/)

------
philliphaydon
> car ownership cost $11,783 per year, most of it depreciation

Does depreciation even matter. Most people don’t sell their cars.

~~~
patio11
Here, let me rephrase: the expensive part about car ownership is purchasing
cars, not gas, insurance, or maintenance.

~~~
anoncoward111
Agreed, but now that the problem has been identified, why do so many people
continue to finance or lease new cars?

Car maintenance isn't that scary if you have a steady income and buy something
rational (90s japanese instead of 2000s range rover)

~~~
lotsofpulp
Car maintenance requires the most expensive thing of all, time. Plus tools,
plus experience. Once you take apart something on your car, if you can't get
it back together, you're out of luck.

You also have to be physically strong and able to get to lug nuts and other
rusted connections loose. I highly doubt most women can take tires off and
lift them and put them back on, especially for SUV.

I think oil and air filter changes can be done by most though, especially if
they get a fumoto valve. I would hesitate to recommend brake jobs for most
people though.

~~~
vwcx
I highly doubt most men can take tires off and lift them and put them back on,
too.

~~~
magicbuzz
I thought that was Bloke 101. Actually, the hardest part is getting the
lugnuts off. When your tyres were fitted, they likely used air tools to put
the nuts back on. I’ve found you always need to ensure you can remove them
with the spare hand tool later - otherwise you may end up with a flat
somewhere and be unable to remove the wheel.

~~~
ddingus
This is where you put a length of pipe in the car. Much easier, even for women
and girls.

All it takes is a couple feet to move the torque required into the lower end
of human capability.

~~~
bluGill
If a normal human cannot loosen the lug nuts with the provided wrench, they
are on too tight and doing damage.

~~~
ddingus
Agreed, in that the fasteners get stretched, fatigued, difficult to
manipulate.

But it still happens. Having a means of greater torque gets past that failure
condition and reduces the work burden.

And that's a net good. Older people, young, small, women with nails, guys who
may not be very strong, someone hurt or sick all see a much improved task,
well in bounds for them.

This is precisely why I brought all my kids up knowing these things. Same for
anyone I've helped. I'll leave it with them and just go get another lever.
cheap.

Better to be equipped to get this done than be stuck, merely understanding one
should not be, but is anyway.

A small extension of this thinking means equipping the vehicle with common
sense, useful tools. BMW does this from the factory. Most go unused, but its
ultra cheap insurance. May actually end up applying to another vehicle. All
good.

It really doesn't take much to equip a vehicle for trouble cases. Anyone who
does is likely to get a nice return on that modest investment in skill and
gear at some point in their lives. This is true even when their skills are
somehow lacking, or they become physically unable somehow.

Getting help means people, and it often means tools. Having both is again,
cheap insurance.

Talking about a damaged fastener on your way from the trouble incident is a
great problem to have when compared to the side of a road.

~~~
bluGill
No, it is bad because your brake calipers/drums get warped from too much
torque.

The fastener problem is real too, but not nearly the potential safety hazard
as the damage to the brakes.

~~~
ddingus
Sure, it's bad. But the driver does not know that, may never know that, unless
they actually do work on their fasteners. They are not likely to do that work,
until they must, and that's on the side of the road.

And, given they must do that work, having the means to complete it makes all
the sense in the world.

Nobody has to tighten anything that way. I've never shown, nor recommended
people do. It's all about having the means to change a tire, should that need
arise. And that means removing the fasteners.

So, I'll tell you what. I'll continue carrying a lever, and will continue to
not be stuck somewhere ugly, and you do whatever you want.

Everyone can and should express concern when the job is done poorly.

Nobody should be stuck because it was done poorly, unless they want to be, and
I for sure don't. Nor does anyone I know.

~~~
bluGill
I agree that you should have the lever just in case. However if you ever need
to use it you should fire the last shop that worked on your tires.

~~~
ddingus
Damn right, unless one lacks strength.

I'm getting older. Can do it. Just don't want to. May not be able one day.
There is that too.

------
sfmike
One thing I think that is overlooked here is drinking alcohol.

Even if you drive and pay for the car payment and insurance at a very cheap
rate of 200/month for both, there's gas and maintenance which should be at
least another 50-100 per month.

But if you're a drinker even casually or you go out just on weekends you will
have to uber and leave the car and incur uber costs regardless. After work
Happy hour? drink or two at the end of office day? Can't drive.

Point is if you are a drinker for whatever reason there's huge perks to uber
and not having a car. Also tax wise uber being used as transportation versus a
vehicle where commuting is not deductible(starts from place of work not to as
contractor). Overall the tax write offs and being able to drink is a huge perk
should your lifestyle be similar of course.

------
Bedon292
This seems to assume that there is not a daily commute. 267 rides for the
whole year is low if one were to need to drive to work. The author never seems
to mentions what they do on their day to day commute, but I guess if they are
a Googler there is probably a free bus?

~~~
Skunkleton
Yeah, google has a bus system. If he was going to/from work every day w/ uber
that would be and additional ~470 rides per year, and for him they would be
extremely expensive (SF <-> Mountain View).

------
mnm1
Sure, you save a lot of money if you're pitting uber vs $50,000 of currently
depreciating BMW that was bought new for $80k. If the author had bought a
reasonably priced car (TM) the calculations and conclusions would likely be
very different. Hell, his second car is reasonably priced (or reasonably old),
but the egregiousness of the first car still invalidates all his conclusions.
Had he had a reasonably priced car, there's no way uber would be cheaper.

------
mettamage
I can't read the website, hug of death maybe? I would like to point out that
in some other countries Uber fare prices are much higher. I live in The
Netherlands and I remember 1 km to equal about 2 euro's, whereas in the US it
would equal to about $1.25, meaning that Uber is twice as expensive in The
Netherlands. I don't know how it is now, but my point is that it is quite
country dependent.

~~~
dalore
But people in the US need to travel further since it's infrastructure is all
built around cars. Netherlands isn't as focused on cars, more bikes.

------
w4tson
I live in London, UK. I can’t drive. Last time I was behind a wheel it was
1999 and I failed my driving test.

I get the train places and taxis the other end (Uber if the city allows).

I’ll admit a few times a year I think it would be nice to drive and I intend
to take my test again one day but It’s down list of stuff do with learn the
banjo and work on my Haskell

------
sbr464
Cached link (site was down for me)
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:j_-
ohhP...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:j_-
ohhPT18AJ:https://nealmueller.com/uber/&num=1&hl=en&gl=us&strip=1&vwsrc=0)

------
httpz
You can't really compare owning a M3 to riding Uber though. If you are a type
of person who cares about how fun your car is, Uber is not an alternative for
a M3. If you're the type of person who only cares about going from point A to
B, you shouldn't have bought a M3 in the first place.

------
swarnie_
Am i the only one that finds Uber a lot more expensive then local, traditional
taxi rivals?

In the UK just outside London Uber's quotes last Friday and Saturday night
were 50%-100% hire then other competitors.

~~~
avaika
It depends on region, daytime and traffic a lot.

E.g. in my area sometimes it's much cheaper than its competitors (up to 20%
difference) and MUCH cheaper than a standard call taxi (up to 50% difference),
sometimes it's a double from competitors prices. You just have to catch the
right moment. I even have an application for my local region which estimates
prices in different services right now and suggests the cheapest option.

Abroad (in countries like India) Uber (or similar services, e.g. Ola) is the
easiest way to get an honest price without heavy bargain (which is also time
consuming) and complicated explanations where you wanna get.

------
maherbeg
I'm curious as to what this will look like with using e-scooter rentals to
replace some of the shorter rides.

------
rekshaw
Data is as of 2016. Would be curious to see a follow up post on this,
especially the comparison with Lyft.

------
_bxg1
Why would the measure be against owning _two_ cars? What single person with no
kids needs two cars?

------
gesman
But you can get hotter girls with M3 :)

------
jlebrech
the site is down so I don't know how many miles his commute is.

but what if he factored in riding a bicycle when it isn't raining (into work)
and using Uber on days when it's raining in the mornings?

~~~
SkyPuncher
He doesn't address mileage at all (shocker). Based on a $1/mile estimate, he
traveled about 12k miles over 6 years (500 miles/year).

------
chx
How come noone is pointing out that paying 12041 to Uber is paaying 12041 to
undermine society by ignoring the rule of law and to roll back protections
organizer labor achieved over a hundred years? Shame on you.

~~~
trumped
If what Uber is doing is illegal, why are they allowed to continue operating?

~~~
grepthisab
Truly an awful line of reasoning. To add a little substance to that comment
per HN guidelines: they could be being investigated now, the gov may not have
caught up with their illegality yet, etc. etc. etc.

~~~
trumped
right, and the comment that I was replying to was just assuming that it was
illegal even if they haven't been convicted... I know nobody likes Uber here,
including me, but it's a bit of a witch hunt

