

Microsoft announces Windows 8.1 - simonsarris
http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2013/05/14/windows-keeps-getting-better.aspx?

======
rm999
I found this announcement frustrating to read because it contains little
useful content. Almost all of it is about how supposedly awesome Windows 8 is
and how well it's doing. The relevant part could have been summed up as:
there's a free upgrade coming out sometime later this year called Windows 8.1.

~~~
k3n
This sums up my experience with MS in general; conversations driven by
marketing and nothing else. For many other tech companies it's a much lower
marketing:info ratio. Google is fairly good about it, and Mozilla is pretty
good, while Apple is just as bad as MS.

~~~
Someone
I disagree about the Apple part. If Apple tells you something, they will
generally tell you what you will get, but not how it works.

Microsoft, in this example, tells you neither. The three items of information
are "it's Windows 8.1", "it's a free update", and "we will tell you more"
(that third one is counting liberally)

With Apple, this would either be a new OS X release that gets a page showing
its new end user features, or it would be an update that simply showed up in
System Update.

~~~
k3n
Yes good point, for announcements Apple typically won't divulge a whole lot,
but it's strategically important to drive the message (i.e. key
features/capabilities), and then saving the rest for later. At least that's my
observation, and I can't fault them on that basis.

------
sixbrx
"We now have more than 70,000 apps in the Windows Store (the online app store
for Windows) – apps such as Twitter, ..."

Did anyone else chuckle that he felt he had to describe parenthetically what
the Windows Store is?

~~~
codereflection
And he didn't mention what percentage of those apps are of any decent quality.
They're ruining the experience by pushing quantity over quality.

~~~
FireBeyond
Have you seen some of the horrific efforts that populate both the App Store
and Google Play now? Let's not pretend that either Apple or Google are
curating anything beyond "meets requirements/guidelines/rules", certainly not
"brand-positive User Experience".

~~~
codereflection
No, I haven't really, but this doesn't surprise me either. I have a feeling
that Amazon is doing the same thing with their Android app store.

------
rammark
_will be a free update to Windows 8 for consumers through the Windows Store_

This could be to get more people to link their Microsoft ID with their Windows
user accounts so that they will be more likely to use the store in the future.
The alternative would be to release it through Windows Update like every other
Windows patch for the last decade+.

~~~
jagermo
i think it will be interesting to see how this works. I'm not 100 percent
sure, but i think the store basically cannot update apps and functions outside
its modern UI jail, right?

~~~
dangrossman
The store can do whatever Microsoft wants it to be able to do. Updating and
installing apps necessarily involves more permission than the apps themselves
have access to.

------
MichaelGG
Sounds like a service pack just got rebranded as a point update.

~~~
kvb
Service packs typically don't contain new features, though, while this update
is expected to.

~~~
k-mcgrady
I haven't used Windows in a few years but I remember XP SP2 included several
new features. Security Center was a major one but I know there were a few
others too.

~~~
sliverstorm
I believe the wireless networking support was majorly beefed up for XP SP2.

------
jayshahtx
Some updates on the way:

1\. Start menu 2\. Tile size

(source: [http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/380713/windows-
blue-8-1-release-...](http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/380713/windows-
blue-8-1-release-date-screenshots-features))

~~~
bcoates
Ugh. I don't actually miss the onscreen start button (although I can imagine
the discoverability hit to casual computer users). I miss the actual _start
menu_ , which was vastly more useful than the gimmicky thing they replaced it
with.

~~~
dangrossman
What about it was _more useful_? I didn't change any of my habits after
upgrading to Win8. It was only a cosmetic change as far as I can tell. I still
just hit the start key and start typing to launch things, search for apps and
files, or run commands. Meanwhile the new start menu also lets me search any
app that registers itself as a search provider (i.e. search through my Kindle
books, my Netflix account, etc), which is handy.

~~~
bcoates
> What about it was more useful?

Universal search: I didn't have to choose "Files" "Apps" "Settings", etc. It
just floated whatever answered the query.

Outlook Integration: I could search emails, files in email attachments, and
files on disk with one query in 7. As far as I can tell, Outlook 2013 wants
nothing to do with the TIFKAM search at all.

Not full screen: I would routinely transcribe something onscreen or drag
something out of the search results into a window.

If there was any upside to the weird new menu _at all_ , I could deal with
these changes, but as far as I can tell it's pure regression. Windows 8 has
lots of tiny technical advances, but the shell changes are just a disaster.

------
acqq
"The problem with Microsoft is that they have no taste." (S. Jobs)

The reports of still insisting on Metro for big monitors and computers instead
of keeping it only on phones and tablets confirm this. Ugly, ugly, ugly.

(And forcing people to get an OS update over the Windows Store is as spammy as
it can be.)

~~~
tarr11
Can you clarify what you are saying here? That Metro is ugly? Or that it's
only ugly on Big Monitors?

~~~
redthrowaway
It's a touch-centric paradigm forced onto non-touch devices.

~~~
nivla
That brings up a good question. With newer laptops and monitors being touch,
how long do we have left before touch display become the norm? Is Microsoft
trying to have a solution before the problem?

~~~
jlgreco
I have a laptop with a touch screen and even while using programs it
conceivably makes sense in (read: not a webbrowser, terminal, text editor /
word processor, video player....), I still don't use it. My hands are at rest
near the clickpad so why would I?

As long as computers ship with good pointer devices, as far as I can tell
there can be no problem to solve.

~~~
dangrossman
If you are a kid today growing up with smartphones and tablets, the fact that
you can't touch things when you're old enough to start interacting with
computers would be weird. That you naturally default to using the mouse is a
learned habit. It's not one the next generation will have when they grow up;
give them only a pointer device and they will not buy your device. If
Microsoft weren't positioning itself to work the way _they_ will be accustomed
to just as well, it'd be ensuring its own demise when they become the next
generation of workers and computer customers.

Microsoft is trying to play the long game, as always; whether they're doing it
well is up for debate. They want Windows to work for you with your mouse, for
Bob who wants a tablet to watch videos and check e-mail on, for Stacy who
wants a tablet to seamlessly switch between working in Office and
entertainment, for Josh who only uses a smartphone, and for Johnny who's just
growing up and will be a potential Windows customer in 5-10 years.

~~~
jlgreco
Lets say I'm in a webbrowser, like I assume 99% of the population is 99% of
the time (locally running games excluded). What am I going to touch? Unlike on
a phone the pinch/zoom gesture that makes clicking on links practical isn't
comfortable in the slightest (I have to bend my wrist uncomfortably to put
both my thumb and index finger on the screen at the same time). Even worse,
desktop browsers aren't going to fetch mobile versions of pages that are meant
to be used with touch.

The one place that I've ever seen it being a decent input choice on my laptop
is clicking through the menus in minecraft. Unusually massive buttons that
only need a single tap of the finger to use. I don't think anything other than
minecraft or other _"low-fi is cool"_ style games could really get away with
doing that though.

Even if they make all of Windows "lo-fi" like minecraft, which I suppose is
what they are aiming for with windows 8, it won't matter. The things people
actually use windows _for_ won't/can't follow suit.

I don't know, maybe I'm just an old grump.

~~~
dangrossman
You're not forward-looking enough. 2012 was the beginning of the end of the
laptop form factor. Windows 8 needs to last a good decade or so for Microsoft,
so it better be ready for the form factors that will be popular in the coming
years. That's going to be tablets of all sizes you can dock to a keyboard for
laptop-like work. With a hard hinge or kickstand, they look and work like the
laptop you're used to. They're otherwise undocked or have the screen flipped
down over the keyboard for tablet-like interaction.

There's no wrist contortion when using the same computer if you can move the
screen flat in a split second to switch modes of interaction. If you're not
convinced that using the full internet on a touchscreen PC can't be as fluid,
easy and enjoyable as it is on your mobile device or Android tablet, find a
store with a Surface Pro tablet on display, hold it in your hand without the
magnetic keyboard attached, and tap Internet Explorer 10. It feels like the
future, man. If your phone feels fluid, pinch zooming on an Intel Core i5
feels like you're in an Iron Man movie working with Jarvis. No mobile sites
required; the only thing that you'll have trouble doing just as easy and
accurately as if you had a mouse is menus that have hover states.

~~~
jlgreco
We've had laptops like that for a decade. Tablets make sense, I don't doubt
that, and laptops that can turn into tablets are fine, but the technology is
just silly in regular laptops.

If Windows 8 is all about Microsoft getting ready to ditch regular laptops let
alone desktops entirely... well besides thinking that is a mistake I think
they should have manned up and never pretended it was for regular laptops in
the first place.

I've used a surface briefly. I walked away from it with that _"gee wiz that
was neato... but adds no value to my life"_ vibe that I got years ago from
Beryl/Compiz.

------
RexRollman
This will totally blow if you have to install Windows 8 just to install
Windows 8.1. I hope we are talking about a stand alone installer.

------
billsix
I frequently hear that 8 should have a start menu, and should be able to boot
to desktop. Although I agree, I've found a solution that serves me well.

<http://www.classicshell.net> gives a start menu, and boots to desktop.

I'm mainly a Linux user, but I upgraded from my xp drive to 8 because the
upgrade was only 40 bucks at the time, and I couldn't find a copy of 7 in
stores nor online.

With classic shell, I'm content for the limited uses of windows I need. And
all of my programs written for xp run correctly, which surprised me.

------
lovamova
What are the new features?

~~~
deathcakes
A start menu.

~~~
jagermo
Press "Windows" key. Get full screen start menu with improved search function.

~~~
rietta
Actually, as a user of Windows 8 in Parallels I find activating the start
screen to be difficult because the Apple+C keyboard combo maps to Copy rather
than to Win+C. And activating the corner of the screen is difficult because
the mouse leaves the virtual machine window to go to the host OS. So having a
Start button will improve usability for virtual machine users.

And it will help the usability for my parents too on their Windows computers.
My mother has become confused with her Windows 8 laptop (that has a touch
screen) about how to switch between modes.

~~~
jagermo
Is it a tablet? If yes, show her the "swipe with the right thumb from right to
left" to open the charms bar. It is pretty natural, because both thumbs should
also be in the correct position if she holds the tablet in landscape mode.

With Parallels, I agree. Sorry, it was a reflex for the usual "Win 8 has no
start menu" trolling.

------
overshard
I'm curious if this will be delivered as a service pack or as a new OS. It
seems like they are announcing it as a new OS, I've never seen this much news
over a SP before.

~~~
dangrossman
> Tami Reller shared with the audience that the update previously referred to
> as “Windows Blue” will be called Windows 8.1 and will be a free update to
> Windows 8 for consumers through the Windows Store.

I wouldn't call installing a free update from your OS's app store a new OS.
It's mostly just minor cosmetic changes from the sounds of it.

------
wcfields
I'll wait for 8.11 for workgroups.

------
cmelbye
I'm disappointed to see no mention at all of Windows Phone in the post. This
is supposed to be the update that finally unifies Windows 8 and Windows Phone
8, which are currently quite separate from each other.

------
Zenst
All I want too know is can you now easily make Metro not the default GUI and
can the start button menu now appear easily. ALl without hacks and addons and
mods by third parties. If they have done that, I'll bite, that alone stopped a
laptop sale for a friend who stuck with windows 7 laptop as not even a
salesman could demo/handle it. Tried a few shops as well and all and myself
and friend just could not handle it, was messy. Now touch screen laptops,
whilst much more compfortable with metro, still only suitable if you use it as
a tablet with keyboard

------
mvkel
Is this Microsoft's official Windows blog? What a piece of garbage.

Who labels their feeds (Atom??) as "Syndication"?

I don't know who works at Microsoft anymore, but it's a really weird culture.

------
egeozcan
All those jokes about how Windows 8 resembles Windows 3.1 and now this...

------
conductor
Does anybody know whether they are going to fix the INT_MIN / -1 bug in the
kernel? This code below (compiled and linked with gdi32) crashes fully patched
versions of Windows 7 and 8 (32 bit), I didn't try it with 64bit versions.

#include <windows.h>

#include <limits.h>

int main() {

HDC dc = CreateCompatibleDC (NULL);

SetLayout (dc, LAYOUT_RTL);

ScaleWindowExtEx (dc, INT_MIN, -1, 1, 1, NULL);

}

~~~
whacker
why isn't this treated as a serious security issue?

~~~
marshray
Is it exploitable to gain elevated privileges?

Typically a user with the ability to make those calls can shut down the
machine anyway. But Terminal Services/Remote Desktop may be an exception.

------
malbs
I'm feeling like the Windows 8.1 upgrade, available on the Windows Store, is
just a way to force Windows 8 users to finally register for the Windows Store?

Speaking from personal experience only, I've never used the Windows Store, and
I don't know anyone who has.

I'd love to see the numbers of Windows 8 installs vs Windows Store accounts.

------
JoeKM
I hope they add a feature to change the Start Screen wallpaper. I have to use
Decor8 just for that, but it's worth it in my opinion. The Start Screen looks
much better when you use the same wallpaper as your desktop, but blur it a
bit.

------
xeper
So SP1, but "SP" = "." because we "why not".

------
recoiledsnake
Story seems to be getting flagged and is going down the front page.

Looks like some HN folks with good karma can't stand a Microsoft story that is
not super critical and bitching about them. Those stay on the front page for
days.

<http://i.imgur.com/wFN21wY.png>

Even announcements are not spared. Can anyone who flagged this post care to
tell us why? I suspect the answer is "lol M$'.

~~~
MichaelApproved
Are you speculating or do you know it's being flagged? An alternative could be
that only people with low karma are voting it up which is what's keeping it
from having more staying power.

~~~
nivla
Thats news to me. I din't know someone with a higher karma gets a better
voting rank. Reminds me of what Digg wanted to achieve and it backfiring.

~~~
MichaelApproved
I _think_ HN uses a weighted Karma system for voting but I don't know for
sure. It would make sense to give certain people more weight than others. At
least in a primitive way with something like "new user" VS. "trusted user".

