
PragProg removes access to forums due to SESTA - grzm
https://forums.pragprog.com/fosta-sesta
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freedomben
This is so sad. I'm really glad to see PragProg calling out the problem
without trying to tip toe around and be politically correct. For anyone new to
the FOSTA-SESTA debacle, here's reporting from the EFF:
[https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/03/how-congress-
censored-...](https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/03/how-congress-censored-
internet)

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unethical_ban
My impression is that in practice this would only be used to target sites that
extensively are shown to be used for trafficking.

On the flipside, super vague laws like "we'll prosecute if we feel like it"
are dangerous, and it would have been interesting for more sites to have a
"protest day" to show just how unreasonable the law really is.

Additionally, I wonder how many users were using the forum vs. how much it
cost to run vs. its benefit to PragProg's bottom line.

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wheaties
As you say it will only be used against the bad guys, until if isn't. Like
civil forfeiture, which originally targeted dig dealers, it week expands over
time to be anything and everything that runs afowl of some interest.

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dragonwriter
> Like civil forfeiture, which originally targeted dig dealers,

Civil forfeiture did not originally target drug dealers.

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BadassFractal
Could the forums be hosted in a different country to bypass this? Or could
forums be outsourced to a third party hosted in a different country? There
should be a business for this, like a Disqus hosted in Switzerland.

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janoc
Well, that's not that easy. If you host abroad you also subject yourself to
the laws of that country. The consequences could be pretty messy, especially
if you assume that the laws work the same as in your own country.

E.g. the Americans are used to the first amendment protections even for stuff
like holocaust denial, white supremacism, outright racism and similar.
However, if your hosting happens to be in Germany (or many other EU countries
with similar laws), you will get hammered, because publishing stuff like that
is illegal there - the hate speech laws are much tougher and there are also
specific laws covering stuff like holocaust, nazism, etc.

Or here in France we have a "wonderful" law that makes it a crime to say
anything that could be considered as "apology of terrorism". Basically as
little as a tweet saying that "They had it coming" (or something to that
effect) in relation to a terrorist attack could land you in legal hot water
with a large fine (most common, up to $120000 possible) or even a prison
sentence (up to 7 years is possible). And that's not a theoretical thing -
there have been several high profile prosecutions like this already, most
recently a left wing former MP publicly praising the death of the French
police colonel who exchanged himself for a hostage during an attack. He said
something to the effect that one more dead cop means fewer cops to attack
people (he was referring to a high profile police brutality case here) - but
that was enough to get him arrested and will most likely earn him a hefty
fine.

Now imagine that you are hosting a forum where people are debating or posting
things like that - you will have to cooperate with the authorities, take the
posts down and hand over any relevant information about the users involved or
you can be held co-responsible for the crime. In such case you could face
prosecution, have the website seized, etc.

So not all is rosy on this side of the Atlantic neither.

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baud147258
Regarding the French terrorist attack, it happened in a supermarket and one of
the victims was a butcher. One vegan wrote a comment on this death and also
got indicted for "apology of terrorism"

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chaostheory
Does using Disqus mitigate this?

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bilbo0s
Not the way the law is written.

Your website would still be potentially liable. (CRIMINALLY. The serious kind
of liability. Not just the CIVIL kind of liability.) At least, that's what
lawyers have advised me with respect to web forum plans.

That said, I'm a chicken-sh*t when it comes to business. As a general rule,
anything that scares attorneys, I stay away from.

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j32fun
How would this affect larger sites like Facebook or Reddit?

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cowmoo728
Which DOJ official and/or senator is going to go after facebook and reddit?
Unless they're openly promoting sex trafficking I don't think the giants are
going to have any issues.

Just to be safe, though, reddit did take down any subreddit that discussed
prostitution.

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morganvachon
The situation is bad enough that Craigslist took down their dating section.
And really, any dating site or service (classics like match.com and modern
services like Tinder) are easy prey for this law. I saw a headline towards the
top of HN that Facebook is dabbling in online dating, which puts the biggest
social media company in history in the crosshairs.

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openbasic
What if messages are posted behind password-protected areas and encoded with
PGP?

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noobermin
Breaking the law while encrypting any incriminating evidence of said law
breaking is still illegal. The best option is to change the law.

