

Ask HN: Is GNUstep dead? - kunai

Hello everyone;<p>I code in Java quite a bit, but I was researching other cross-platform solutions, such as Mono and the GNUstep runtime.<p>GNUstep got me really curious. It's Cocoa, but open-source and fully cross-platform. Objective-C is elegant, simple, and a full subset of C, so why hasn't there been more uptake? Sure, it isn't very <i>pretty</i>, so to speak -- but you can make it pretty if you want it to be.<p>Why don't more people work on the project? It really does have potential.
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runjake
_> so why hasn't there been more uptake?_

Because generally, those of us who are interested in that sort of thing just
use OS X.

 _> but you can make it pretty if you want it to be._

I theoretically could, for a short amount of time. But Cocoa is largely
developed in private by Apple.

It still sees substantial changes and additions that get flung upon us every
year. Hopefully those changes could get implemented before the next June WWDC,
but there aren't enough people interested in doing so.

 _> Why don't more people work on the project?_

Again, because those people just use OS X.

In order to be successful, I think GNUstep would have to grow on its own
merits, similar to how Mono has grown, with its own popular frameworks and
technologies beyond just tracking Microsoft .NET. Mono also has the advantage
of using C#, which is more familiar to the masses, so who knows of GNUstep
could duplicate Mono's success.

Summary: The people who care just use OS X.

~~~
kunai
I use OS X. I develop in Obj-C occasionally (usually it's just GUI mockups),
but I still have an old Linux laptop from 2005, and I love using it; I'd
daresay using it is more enjoyable than my MacBook Air.

I don't think saying that C# is more familiar than Objective-C is really fair.
Objective-C is far more widely used than C#; the amount of iPhone and iPad
apps far outnumbers those of .NET applications.

~~~
runjake
_> Objective-C is far more widely used than C#_

 _> the amount of iPhone and iPad apps far outnumbers those of .NET
applications._

[Citation needed]

Objc may be more "widely-used" in terms of end users, but I am extremely
skeptical that objc programmers outnumber dotnet programmers. In fact, every
survey I've seen places C# higher.

I'd also wager there are far more dotnet apps than iOS apps. Virtually all
Windows applications are dotnet these days. Not to mention the vast number of
web apps based on dotnet.

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soapdog
I don't know if it is dead or not but I am sure it does not include the cocoa
framework. IIRC GNUStep has application kit and foundation kit and other
framework for UI but I am positive it is not cocoa.

It always had great potential but unless the client has the gnustep stuff
installed, your app won't run. Like Mac OS X, GNUStep depends on some bits on
the destination machine. (I may be wrong on this, it has been so many
years...)

~~~
chc
Cocoa is just an umbrella framework for Foundation, AppKit and Core Data. It
has nothing of its own. Literally, this is the entirety of Cocoa.h:

    
    
      #import <Foundation/Foundation.h>
      #import <AppKit/AppKit.h>
      #import <CoreData/CoreData.h>

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prg318
For those that are unaware: <http://www.gnustep.org/>

I think libraries like Qt and GTK get a lot more development bandwidth because
there are popular desktops built on top of them (KDE and GNOME, respectively).
With the growing popularity of QT dev on desktop and mobile, GNUstep may just
dying out because the other toolkits are much more popular at this point.

If you take a look at the software index
(<http://www.gnustep.org/softwareindex/>) there don't seem to be a lot of
existing applications. It's somewhat difficult to want to develop with a
widget toolkit that you have not used first-hand.

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salahxanadu
I think the potential is huge but as of yet unrealized.

Gnustep seems to want to make Openstep again with 'Project Builder' and
'Interface Builder' but do they have tools to cross-compile for multiple
platforms? I don't think so. That would break it open, compile fat binaries
for any linux, windows, mac or (linux-based) phone.

Xcode is very nice IDE and I use it daily. Having .xcodeproj support in
GnuStep so you can just port over an existing os x/iOS app would be key.

------
zodman
it is not dead...

<http://etoileos.com/etoile/>

~~~
kunai
The last post was in August of 2012, the last _release_ was a year ago, and
the project is still nowhere near close to completion.

It's not dead, but if it still doesn't have enough developers and hackers on
board, it will be. Very soon.

