
Retiring the Netflix Public API - shadesandcolour
http://developer.netflix.com/blog/read/Retiring_the_Netflix_Public_API
======
colinbartlett
This is a good reminder to all of us that any API key is just that: A key. A
key to a lock you don't own and a lock that can be changed at any time.

~~~
ronilan
Indeed.

Any API key is just that. A key. A key to the stairs up the shoulders of
giants. A place that can be shrugged. From which one can fall. But also from
which one can see further. Further even than the sacred concept of
"ownership".

------
parley
I too am very disappointed and agree with the other commenter who said they
are big enough that they don't have to worry about closing it. When I realized
I wanted an API key they had already stopped handing them out, and now the axe
falls again. I don't argue it's not within their right, it's just sad.

I have upwards of 1200 graded movies in another service that I used for a long
time and that has a public API. Nowadays, I use trakt.tv a lot (and pay for
it, because I really want it to be around, like I pay for Netflix and Spotify)
and they also have a public API that I can use to write a tool and
migrate/sync my movie grades there. Netflix' recommendation engine could have
learned more about me in 5 seconds than it will in 5 years, and any grades I
put into Netflix will never leave it.

Yes, I know I'm an edge case. Yes, I know it doesn't make business sense to
cater to me. I still need to gripe a bit.

I have a custom app for managing my music too that uses the Spotify C library
(wrapped in Go). I love that I was able to do that, and the day Spotify EOLs
that library (and doesn't provide an alternative) is probably the day I leave
their service.

Enough ranted. Sorry. I just like to take my data with me when I go.

~~~
qworty
I agree it is stupid that data you enter into a service, which you cannot know
if it will remain (and that means every service), you can't extract to do with
it what you want (log it yourself). It just gives me a better feeling if I can
extract my netflix watching habbits and ratings for my own usage instead of
relying on their ways (but their way isn't bad).

Also I just recently tried Mopidy again, a year ago it would crash a lot and
time outs and stuff, but now I have it running as my main MPD with MPDroid on
my phone and also Mopidy-Spotify. It is really awesome! I can just use my own
keyboard shortcuts again to prev/play/pause/next again which I always found a
burden in the spotify client. I'm with you on that Spotify C library, it would
suck so much if they would EOL it without replacement.

~~~
pdenya
They might get some flack for suddenly being less open about data. Adding a
[download my ratings] button on the account page seems much less ambitious
than maintaining an API so that might be on the table in the future.

------
ricardobeat
> To better focus our efforts and to align them with the needs of our global
> member base, we will be retiring the public API program

What a sad statement, there is no need for this corporate-drone talk. "We're
shutting it down because it doesn't make us money, and we think we will be
better off being a closed platform" would have ringed much better, not
necessarily in these words. Honesty is always appreciated.

~~~
frostmatthew
> What a sad statement, there is no need for this corporate-drone talk.

I've always wondered if PR-types think that people "buy" stuff like this. It's
somewhat expected from "old" companies but you would think a company like
Netflix would be different.

~~~
orenmazor
whats "old"? they're pushing 20 years now. that feels pretty ancient in
internet time :)

------
mcherm
There is something here that I really don't understand.

Why would they want to shut it down?

With something like Twitter, I get it. In order to make money off their
customers' use of Twitter's free service, they need to be in control of the
customers' experience (so they can do things like show ads). So they pulled
this intentional bait-and-switch where they screwed over the independent
developers who had made Twitter successful in the first place, but they did it
because they needed to in order to make their profits.

The Netflix API story is different. First of all, APIs were always an
additional offering: Netflix was grown on the backs of their mail-order
business and third party apps that could just as well have been done via
partnerships instead of open APIs. So they're at least not screwing over the
one who brought them to the dance.

But the APIs have been a source of good will from the developer community
(probably all out of proportion to the number of actual tools built using
them). And the APIs are not harming Netflix's income stream in any way. (They
might, in a tiny way, be helping, but I accept that this effect is
negligible.) So where is the motivation to retire them?

Does it really cost so much to maintain the APIs? After all, they need to
maintain them for Instant Watcher, Fanhattan, Yidio, NextGuide, Flixster, Can
I Stream It?, FeedFliks, and Instant Watch Browser for Netflix. So it's not
like they'll save the cost of keeping the APIs running. And I don't see how
this can be about the cost of managing communications with the public -- if,
instead of announcing that the APIs were now closing down, Netflix had
announced that the primary support channel was now a public forum where users
could help each other I doubt anyone would have batted an eyelash.

So help me out here: what is the motivation?

~~~
jdlshore
It's probably about reducing maintenance costs. The public API is implemented
by software which calls internal Netflix services/APIs. Over time, those
services accrue technical debt and need to be refactored or rewritten. Every
system that uses those internal services needs to be updated to match.

A published API makes this more difficult. The behavior of published APIs,
particularly those that are in wide use, _can not_ change in any way without
raising the ire of developers. This restricts the internal refactoring you can
do and makes the whole exercise (already complicated enough) even more
challenging.

Working with a small, curated list of apps means that they can coordinate with
developers on API changes rather than worrying about maintaining
compatibility. This lowers their maintenance costs and increases their
architectural agility.

------
cnanney
My comment from an earlier post:

I was disappointed to get that email, I have an API key and am using it for an
ongoing (small) side project of mine.

It seems counter to everything else Netflix engineering promotes with its tech
blog and open source contributions. To be so public and open on one hand, and
then shut down the public API on the other seems strange.

Trying to cut down on third-party access to user account functions like
managing queues could be understandable, but I hope there is some kind of
access to basic Netflix library data. Otherwise people will just turn to
custom scraping solutions to get the data anyway.

~~~
yoda_sl
Same here, have a working side project that has been working like a clock
watch for the past 3 years, with a few thousands regular users. I will now
need to see if scraping is a solution that can work.

At the same time, when they announce last year they were stopping the new API
keys, I was wondering how long it will take for them to terminate the existing
ones.

~~~
psychometry
If you only need movie information, that there are arguably better sources
available now like TheMovieDB.

~~~
yoda_sl
Unfortunately no, the project in question was specific to Netflix.

------
jevinskie
R.I.P. NetflixItNow - a weekend hackathon Greasemonkey/Chrome extension that
sent you an email when user-selected movies became available for streaming
(not just disc delivery).

Though the project was short lived, I am very sad that it is no longer
possible to implement similar projects.

Netflix API code (very simple): [https://github.com/swanson/netflix-it-
now/blob/master/check_...](https://github.com/swanson/netflix-it-
now/blob/master/check_instant.rb)

Video demo:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-zXOUsyXjA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-zXOUsyXjA)

Entire repo: [https://github.com/swanson/netflix-it-
now](https://github.com/swanson/netflix-it-now)

~~~
WCityMike
They indicate they plan to continue providing access to CanIStreamIt, and I
believe that website provides that service.

------
Smudge
This just means more people will rely on covertly scraping their data. It also
means, much like Twitter and the way they nerfed their developer ecosystem,
Netflix will gain much more control over any available 3rd party offerings (as
they've clearly outlined). Seems like a very short-sighted trade off if you
ask me, but, hey, maybe the public API was just underused and they didn't want
to devote more resources to maintaining it.

~~~
gametheoretic
NFLX would prefer we not measure their offerings against AMZN's. That's what I
think, anyway. Amazon has more headliners than they know what to do with -
they rotate them on and off Prime's frontpage regularly enough to give the
impression you'll never watch all of it. Netflix, on the other hand... Netflix
and I fought an 18-month staring contest over whether I was going to watch The
Lincoln Lawyer.

~~~
mattbot5000
I don't think that's the case as they are allowing Can I Stream It? to stay up
which is specifically for seeing what streaming services (including Amazon)
offer particular titles.

------
tibbon
Sadly, this marks the end of an era for me with Netflix. After an initial
'meh' experience with the DVD rental service when they first debuted, one of
the things that really got my attention with them was their developer contest
to create a better suggestion service. But it seems that working with the
developer community now is a thing of the past for them. Sadly, I foresee more
companies going that way.

~~~
zbowling
Wbat is funny is that put up that bounty. It took a years to get a hit and
then it got a crazy. What is also funny is before they killed that program,
they actually implemented any of the techniques from people that won those
contests.

------
ksenzee
"Thank you to all of the developers who have participated in the ecosystem
throughout the years."

I'm not sure "thank" is the word they wanted.

~~~
gonzo
well, it has a vowel and ends with 'k'.

~~~
iLoch
Took me longer than it should have.

------
thatthatis
When business schools a few dozen years hence discuss this period of API
development, they'll talk of how we learned to use an open API as a weapon
wielded by a mid-size company to fend off competitors until the company has
grown to a place of market dominance.

------
kentbrew
I worked for Netflix in 2009 and 2010, first documenting the consumer API and
helping out with things like oAuth, and later working on the original iPhone
and Android apps, which ran inside a Web view using nothing but HTML, CSS,
JavaScript, and the consumer API. (The morbidly curious should see "Mistakes I
Made Building Netflix for the iPhone," at
[http://www.slideshare.net/kentbrew/mistakes-i-made-
building-...](http://www.slideshare.net/kentbrew/mistakes-i-made-building-
netflix-for-the-iphone.))

At the time, Netflix didn't run on an API; the API had been retro-fitted onto
Netflix. Even a simple thing like "please tell me the availability of all the
discs in this season of this television series" took several calls and a fair
amount of head scratching to accomplish. Every new device that came along got
a slightly different version of the API, support was terribly difficult, and
when we launched for PS3, Wii, iPhone, and Android, it became obvious that our
own apps had to take precedence.

I am not surprised to see the Netflix consumer API shut down. This will, of
course, result in rampant screen scraping and the creation of an unofficial
Netflix API, which, when it breaks, will be all Netflix's fault.

------
glomek
Netflix just keeps creeping one tiny step at a time farther and farther away
from the awesomeness that they once were.

I used to love Netflix. I was a loving, loyal, evangelical customer and fan.

Now I just find them somewhat useful. In the future, who knows?

~~~
adamc
Completely agree with the sentiment.

------
kylequest
Netflix is big enough not to need a public API, so they are closing it.

It also makes things a bit easier on the technical side after they moved away
from generic "REST" to device optimized APIs.

------
gametheoretic
Good. Drive them into the ground, Jeff.

What was it, 2003-04 when Blockbuster's engineering team sent Netflix that
concession letter? 10 years go by and guess who's stuffing their bra for lack
of content.

------
rz2k
Does anyone here happen to know how Netflix is charged for content?
Specifically, do they pay owners per viewing while they have a title licensed,
or do they license get a license for unlimited customer uses? And, even if
they do get rights for serving an unlimited number of viewings, do they have
to supply the usage data to the content owners, who may use the information in
future negotiations.

I ask, because it seems like these details would have pretty significant
impact on Netflix's incentives for effective recommender systems and user
portals. They would need to balance the satisfaction rates necessary for
retention of subscribed customers with variable costs of serving content,
especially recently released feature films.

~~~
kentbrew
Content owners are paid for unlimited viewings during a specific window of
time. Here's a guide to how some of those windows work:
[http://www.vodprofessional.com/features/a-guide-to-pay-
windo...](http://www.vodprofessional.com/features/a-guide-to-pay-windows-for-
tv-movies/)

It's Byzantine, and must be renegotiated studio by studio and sometimes film
by film.

------
leorocky
Seems like you could just watch the network for whatever those apps are doing
and reverse engineer whatever remains of the API. You might not be able to
build a business on that, but you can build your own apps for yourself,
friends and your family that way.

~~~
kuschku
Or easier:

If you're an EU citizen, just baksmali the Android App. As long as you don't
copy code from their App decompiling is completely legal as per EU law there
is no copyright on source code, but only on the implementation.

And for private use the API access will also be allowed.

Though I am not a lawyer, and this topic is still being discussed even in EU
courts, so I wouldn't recommend using it for larger projects.

------
tedd4u
I think the list of 3rd party services they are _not_ going to shut down shows
a weakness -- without an easy public API to use, it is less likely other such
services that extend and add value to the Netflix experience will evolve.

------
badloginagain
8 projects made that they are now incorporating into the product proper.

These 8 projects were at cost of management of the public API.

If true that more projects of equal caliber will be developed in the future,
what is the opportunity cost of maintaining the API? How would you measure
this opportunity cost?

Corollary: If Netflix had gone Tesla with the public API, I'm talking a full
developer tool marketplace platform- what would be the opportunity risk/reward
conversation look like? I'm thinking would be a very valid strategy for
cornering the video media marketplace, setting the groundwork to take a bite
out of YouTube/Twitch/etc's marketshare.

------
dudleypoopright
This is the problem with modern web companies:

Protocols, not companies. There should be a Netflix protocol that any business
could host. There should be a Twitter protocol so anyone could set up a
Twitter server.

~~~
klapinat0r
The protocol is hardly the issue with setting up your own movie-search db -
it's data.

I guess Freebase might be a way to go, once you've resolved the initial
dataset with wikipedia, update incrimentally with just the changes.

Or, you know, you have to license the material from somewhere.

------
mikelbring
I am glad my site moved away [1] from their API to TMDB. Just in time.

[1] [http://fllix.com](http://fllix.com)

~~~
slig
FWIW, the link to TMDB on the bottom of your site is broken.

------
asperous
Having a public API is about growing new services that can rely on your data.

Imagine if they had never had one, would flixter, etc have popped up?

A public API can save you money in the long run by offsetting the risk/reward
of trying new things with the data and diversifying.

------
e40
Does this mean Android apps, like NetQ[1] are essentially done?

[1]
[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sporadicso...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sporadicsoftware.NetQ)

------
yaronn01
Well they're still recruiting for their API team but I guess it is an internal
API now:
[http://jobs.netflix.com/jobs.php?id=NFX01289](http://jobs.netflix.com/jobs.php?id=NFX01289)

------
evan_
Bateflix[1] is noticeably absent from the list of partnered apps.

[1]: [http://bateflix.com/](http://bateflix.com/)

------
Xorlev
Writing was on the wall as soon as they stopped releasing API keys.

------
garg
This probably means abetterqueue.com will be shutting down?

------
jackbauer
moreflicks.com not on that list

------
jwheeler79
ugh just harsh - what a slap in the face to all the developers. unilateral
crap.

------
paulhauggis
This is why I will never create a business based on an API of a third-party.
They can take it away at any time..and your business is done.

~~~
sethammons
Even if that company's business is providing the API?

~~~
spacefight
Of course - they can retire said API and don't extend your contract. Or they
can force you to a different API etc etc.

------
hyperliner
I don't know what is the big deal. It's as if these startups were in a
Bachelor/Bachelorette style of competition and everybody but a few lost. It's
not like the terms and conditions said the API would be there forever or for
everybody.

~~~
rmrfrmrf
People devoted their time and energy to building things that serve to give
Netflix free publicity.

------
bateflixhq
The real reason they closed the api is because of Bateflix.com

~~~
gscott
It is easier to just pull up porn then watch a movie with some nudity and sex
it but otherwise your site is great for porn discovery on Netflix, good job.

------
adam74
I'm hoping this isn't going to be an end for instantwatcher.com.

~~~
sp0rk
Instant Watcher is first on the list of applications that will continue to
function.

~~~
joemaller1
... for now.

