
Man and man's best friend have both been experiencing declines in sperm quality - pseudolus
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/quirks/august-3-2019-science-of-awe-blue-whales-and-sonar-chromosomes-and-sleep-and-more-1.5047142/man-and-man-s-best-friend-have-both-been-experiencing-declines-in-sperm-quality-1.5047150
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word-reader
I am kind of upset there is no commercial way to test your blood or urine for
endocrine disruptors. You can test your hormones for $100-300 depending on how
comprehensive you want, and you can test sperm quality directly for another
$100-200. Still, this is a pretty penny for most people. Why is this so
expensive?

~~~
imgabe
Not only expensive, but I recently wanted to get a sperm quality test done and
the labs I called flat out refused to do it without a referral. Even though I
was willing to pay cash and forgo all of the insurance nonsense. It is
apparently impossible to just get a test done because you want to unless you
pay a doctor to refer you.

~~~
word-reader
yospermtest.com sells an at home test that is basically a magnifying lens and
collection tray that attaches to your phone, and an app to analyze the sample.

edit: Yes, the referral thing is absurd. People answering the phones at
medical offices when I've called trying to _give them money_ will act confused
or even offended if you ask how much things cost. Thankfully there are some
new businesses like this chipping away at the edges.

~~~
dogma1138
Sperm count is only one aspect of it I don’t think that their app can measure
sperm vitality and other factors that are just as important.

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rthomas6
Don't forget obesity as a major contributing factor. Pollutants are no doubt
to blame in large part, but it's very well established that obesity results in
lower testosterone, and I would not at all be surprised if it also resulted in
lower sperm quality. Fat cells literally produce estrogen.

~~~
Meekro
You're right that obesity causes low testosterone, but low testosterone also
causes obesity (plus factors that lead to obesity, like lethargy). Chicken/egg
problem?

~~~
krageon
For a vast majority of people, obesity is a problem of eating too many kcal.
There is no chicken/egg problem for them. The remainder might have some sort
of metabolic problem which they should go to the doctor for. There is still no
chicken/egg problem there.

Am I missing a group of people who eat exactly the kcal they require, get the
nutrients they need and don't have a metabolic problem, but still materialise
fat for some reason?

~~~
AstralStorm
The chicken/egg problem is satiety, not weight. Being fat messes up many small
feedback loops, some of which are related to satiety, energy expended,
exercise, inflammation or mood.

Breaking those circles is not easy at all. It's closer to rehabilitation and a
long process.

Of course reducing intake is a main goal, but then keeping it low is as
important.

------
personlurking
In 2008, CBC put out a 45-minute documentary, The Disappearing Male, about
this topic. If you do a simple Google search, you can find it easily online.

Previous HN discussion (with a comment from pg):
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=375127](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=375127)

------
sytelus
Our generation is exposed to a lot of things that no other generations have
experienced over extended periods of times like food preservatives, continuous
wifi exposure, sunscreen chemicals that daily gets into the bloodstream, high
blue light exposure, plastic water bottles, pollution... Our generation will
probably be known as The Great Guineapig.

------
lucideer
Given the point made by other commenters w.r.t. sperm quality not really being
a very serious concern for either dogs or humans as species, are there other
health concerns linked with DEHP?

The article mentions PCB 153 _" causing a variety of health problems"_, and
being banned as a result. What's the status of DEHP in this context?

~~~
philipkglass
It too is associated with a variety of health problems and has been recently
phased out in the European Union:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bis(2-ethylhexyl)_phthalate#Ef...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bis\(2-ethylhexyl\)_phthalate#Effects_on_living_organisms)

[https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/substances/toxsubstance.asp?toxid=...](https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/substances/toxsubstance.asp?toxid=65)

It is only moderately regulated in the United States.

------
jammygit
Also affecting fertility rates at the moment: low counts

> The analysis found an overall 52.4 percent decline in sperm concentration
> and a 59.3 percent decline in the total sperm count over the 39-year period.

[https://www.npr.org/2017/07/31/539517210/sperm-counts-
plumme...](https://www.npr.org/2017/07/31/539517210/sperm-counts-plummet-in-
western-men-study-finds)

~~~
Theodores
The current thinking is that it is oestrogen in the water that is killing the
sperm count. It is tempting to think this comes from 'the pill' but water
treatment plants do remove it and the amount of women on the pill plus the
amount of oestrogen pollution does not add up to cause a problem.

What is apparently going on is intensive farming, so manure:

[https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/pressroom/presspacs/2011/...](https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/pressroom/presspacs/2011/acs-
presspac-february-23-2011/new-report-dont-blame-the-pill-for-estrogen-in-
drinking-water.html)

So the new research that suggests that the swimmers don't swim as they should
means there is a double whammy for the humble sperm.

I imagine that if you are breeding dogs, cows, horses or any animal of value
this is a serious threat to revenue. We won't necessarily do whatever is
needed to fix our own fertility but if there are profits being affected in the
world of pedigree pets then something might be done.

~~~
chaostheory
BPA mimics estrogen, and it's everywhere: packaged food and drink, receipts,
toiletries - really virtually anywhere you can find plastic, especially heated
plastic

~~~
flatline
And yet the effects of BPA have actually been studied, and it should not pose
such a wide health hazard. But, due to the public outcry over potential
dangers, the industry has been moving on to other bisphenol compounds that are
less well understood. I think there could be a whole host of synthetics that
contribute to the problem.

~~~
smolder
The solution probably wasn't to just sidestep to other bisphenol compounds.
I'd say it was to stop selling products that depend on them, and let the world
adapt.

I'd also be curious to know, have the effects of BPA been _sufficiently_
studied? Have results been replicated? Do the studies at least sometimes have
a funding source not interested in a certain outcome?

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xwdv
Is low quality sperm permanent, or does the quality increase after the
behaviors are stopped?

~~~
metalliqaz
little bit of both.

hormone disruption during the formative years has lifelong consequence

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hanniabu
Wouldn't be surprised if it's more widespread and attributed to pesticides

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pdsouza
How do we even detect these bloody endocrine disruptors? I have no idea which
things in my environment are leaking this stuff. Perhaps pie in the sky, but
it would be awesome to have something like a geiger counter for endocrine
disruptors.

------
OutsmartDan
TLDR: DEHP disrupts testosterone leading to lower sperm quality.

DEHP can be found in carpets, plastic toys for children, and dog toys. Humans
are also exposed by eating microwaved food stored in plastic containers.

Stay away from microwaved food. Keep dogs away from plastic toys.

~~~
dictum
I'm particularly puzzled by why so many electric kettles are made of plastic.

Unfortunately, the non-plastic one I bought two years ago has already died, so
maybe there's something to the casing.

~~~
sizzle
I always wondered what crap chemicals is leeching into my coffee using my
plastic electric kettle for my plastic aeropress or plastic Keurig machine
using plastic disposable pods.

Anyone have a safer method of brewing coffee? Like boil water in a glass Pyrex
beaker and some sort of glass French press/glass aeropress?

~~~
krageon
One of these?
[http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hoi46KPfaMk/Uu6k-6CP5lI/AAAAAAAAC8...](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hoi46KPfaMk/Uu6k-6CP5lI/AAAAAAAAC8A/jXUxvzINc0w/s1600/Italian-
espresso-maker.jpg)

The coffee tastes good, they are cheap (assuming you get a cheap one, which
works just as well as an expensive one), they last for a long time and you can
find them everywhere

~~~
sizzle
I've used one of these until the metal started flaking off the bottom, which
is concerning to say the least...

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belltaco
Is this true in dogs that have always lived in the wild too?

Is it possible to run a controlled experiment on dogs, i.e a controlled wild
food only diet vs. normal pet dog diet?

~~~
PopeDotNinja
I googled for a few minutes, and found this likely unrelated blurb, but I
thought it was interesting...

"domesticated animals are more likely to: be smaller or larger than their wild
counterparts; undergo multiple periods of fertility within the span of one
year (a trait referred to as being polyestrous), unlike wild animals, which
often mate seasonally" [1]

If you're only mating annually, I'd guess natural for higher sperm count would
be more of a factor. If you're a perpetual, opportustic mater, I'd think it be
more about selecting for the number of times you could mate.

[1] [http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2018/asked-pets-
different-...](http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2018/asked-pets-different-
wild-animals/)

~~~
yorwba
Wild dogs are also domesticated; the "wild counterpart" in that quote refers
to wolves.

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sizzle
I just fell in love with cooking meat in a sous vide machine that was gifted
to me. Boiling meat in plastic bags concerned me to no end so after much
research, I opted to use reusable silicone bags for cooking the meat in.

Does anyone with more insight on the matter know if there are any nasty
compounds I'm exposing myself to using a silicone bag in a sous vide water
bath or even microwaving in a silicone bag as opposed up plastic?

Thanks!

~~~
ficklepickle
I dunno about silicone, but with plastic you want to avoid plastic softeners.
That's the real nasty stuff. Pure nylon oven bags are suitable. Keep in mind
supermarket oven bags likely won't be pure nylon. I use the nylon bag material
made for Volcano vaporizers by storz & bickel, because I know it has no
plastic softeners.

~~~
sizzle
Will check it out thanks for the recommendation!

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867-5309
spurious?

------
Iwan-Zotow
Beer doesn't have sperm count

------
HillaryBriss
I wonder if they've ever found plastic microbeads in anyone's sperm

------
trhway
Testosterone disruption also leads to more mellow behavior. May be violent
crime going down is because of the phtalates, PCB and the likes around us.

~~~
astrange
It's because we fixed lead pollution. Adding more pollution isn't going to
help.

[https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/02/lead-
exposur...](https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/02/lead-exposure-
gasoline-crime-increase-children-health/)

That said, I can't think of an easier problem for evolution to solve than
this. I'm sure we'll get kids immune to plastic in a few more generations.

~~~
magduf
>It's because we fixed lead pollution.

No, that's just a theory about why violent crime has gone down. No one really
knows for sure. Someone noticed that crime rates have gone down, and that this
correlates with reduced usage of leaded gasoline in North America.

Remember also that global warming has been going up over the past few
centuries, and this has an inverse correlation with the number of pirates on
the high seas. Back in the days of Blackbeard, we didn't have problems with
global warming. Does this mean that greatly reducing piracy has caused global
warming? Of course not. Correlation does not prove causation.

The banning of leaded gasoline might in fact have caused a reduction in
violent crime, but it's not proven at this point.

~~~
astrange
> Someone noticed that crime rates have gone down, and that this correlates
> with reduced usage of leaded gasoline in North America.

…and the rest of the world… and it always happens after lead regulation… and
there's a reasonable mechanism… did you read the article?

> Correlation does not prove causation.

This is a "middle-brow dismissal".

Anyway, here's an RCT on lead reduction in children:
[https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/app.20160056](https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/app.20160056)

------
HillaryBriss
Remember how, when a guy announced that his wife was pregnant, his buddies
would say "Oh you dog you!" ?

------
0xDEEPFAC
Look no further than standard self-care products and receipts. Possibly
Teflon:

[https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/03/...](https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/03/08/7-surprising-
sperm-killers-that-could-leave-men-shooting-blanks.aspx)

~~~
the_gastropod
Dr. Mercola is a quack. While there may be something to the teflon thing,
citing Mercola doesn't give it a whole lot of credibility. He's an anti-
vaxxer, he claims microwaves alter food's chemistry, says AIDS is caused by
stress, not HIV, and says sunscreen causes cancer. Meanwhile, he sells,
directly from his website, products that conveniently solve all the quackery
fear mongering he spews.

Please do not cite this clown.

~~~
magduf
>he claims microwaves alter food's chemistry

To be fair, doesn't all cooking alter food's chemistry? In fact, isn't that
the whole point of cooking? Look at potatoes for example: humans can't digest
raw potato, so we learned to cook it eons ago because that changes it into a
form we can digest.

So unless I'm missing something related to terminology, he's right about
microwaves altering food chemistry, but it's just scare-mongering because you
frequently _want_ to alter food chemistry.

The rest of those things you cite are, of course, total BS.

