

The Cruel Waste of America’s Tech Talent - ironchief
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/16/opinion/the-cruel-waste-of-americas-tech-talent.html?action=click&contentCollection=Opinion&region=Footer&module=MoreInSection&pgtype=article

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tomcam
Here, let me burn the exceptionally modest amount of karma I have on HN.

I am married to an immigrant. Immigrants have been huge contributors to the
country. We should keep 'em coming. I'm pretty sure virtually all "anti-
immigrants" agree.

But what many call "anti-immigrant" is propaganda, due to deliberate and
willful devaluation of the term "immigrant". It has come to supplant the more
accurate terms "illegal alien" or the more modern "illegal immigrant".

We spent years navigating the hideous INS bureaucracy to obtain her
citizenship. Amnesty bills are a slap in the face to those of us who played by
the rules. The fact that existing immigration laws go largely unenforced have
resulted in depressed wages and large swathes of the Texas and Arizona borders
becoming killing grounds and defacto "no go zones". Farmers' lands on the
border are becoming unusable and dangerous. Illegal immigrants place enormous
burdens on hospitals in border states.

Like many on the right, I am strongly for legal immigration on pretty generous
terms. I am strongly anti-illegal immigrant, and not the least bit "anti-
immigrant". I do want to see existing laws enforced.

~~~
GabrielF00
This article is specifically referring to people who were brought to the
United States as children.

Having grown up in the US, they are often culturally American and often speak
English with an American accent. (In fact, we've deported so many people who
grew up in the US, that there's now a call center industry in Mexico that
specializes in hiring people with American accents).

It strikes me as incredibly wasteful for the United States to educate a person
through the age of 18, only to then deport them or prevent them from
continuing their education or working.

~~~
MusicTheory
Well, at least it benefits Mexico a bit.

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davidf18
Possibly half of the world's population would love to live and work in
America. Most of the people that now live here have ancestors that followed
the rules as my ancestors did. It is profoundly unfair to allow others to
"skip the queue" over those who have followed our American laws, have been
honest, and "waited their turn."

This article even mentions those that have broken American laws getting
subsidized college education costs such as in-state tuition and other monies.
In other words, you have people who are not American citizens getting in-state
tuition rates that are not available to American citizens who grew up in other
states.

H1B visas displace American workers who are looking for a job as well as lower
wage rates. One NYTimes pick commenter suggests that he wanted an H1B visa to
because he couldn't find anyone to work a Chicago job where someone knew both
SAS and SQL. People want to use Open Source software such as R and Python
instead of using SAS. In the NYC area there are many Meetups for stats, big
data, machine learning, and so on and almost all of them are in R and Python
and none to my knowledge in SAS. See
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7328677](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7328677)

The problem for many firms is that they want software people to work on
buggies (SAS) when they want to work on cars (open source). Many of these
firms also want software people to come to undesirable locations instead of
the ones where people want to live. For example, Google owns one of the
largest office building in NYC, taking an entire city block. So, if firms use
modern open source software and they locate in areas where people want to live
then they will get the employees they need without having to resort to H1B
visas.

~~~
GabrielF00
>Most of the people that now live here have ancestors that followed the rules
as my ancestors did.

This is something of a myth. With the exception of immigrants from China, who
were barred by the United States starting in 1880, there really was no such
thing as an illegal immigrant until the 1920s. To suggest that one's own
ancestors played by the rules, so why can't the current generation of
immigrants, is to ignore the fact that the rules at that time were completely
different. Given that many of our ancestors came from pretty desperate
circumstances, it's entirely likely that many of them would have immigrated
illegally, had the laws of that era been analogous to our laws today.

>those that have broken American laws getting subsidized college education
costs such as in-state tuition and other monies. In other words, you have
people who are not American citizens getting in-state tuition rates that are
not available to American citizens who grew up in other states.

This seems to hold children responsible for actions that were taken by their
parents, when they were minors. Would you really accuse a 2 year-old of
breaking the law if they were brought into the country illegally?

Further, in-state tuition is a benefit to taxpayers of a given state, and it
provides opportunities for residents of that state to develop skills without
having to go elsewhere. I don't see why someone who has never lived in state X
has a claim to in-state tuition at X-State University, based only on their
American citizenship. I do see a case for providing in-state tuition for
someone who grew up in that state, went to high school there, and was the
child of taxpayers, regardless of their educational status.

~~~
davidf18
Perhaps you've heard of the ship the MS St. Louis that in 1939 with 915 Jewish
refugees from Germany that was denied entry into the US with an estimated 1/4
eventually dying in concentration camps. It was made into a book and a movie,
"Voyage of the Damned"
[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075406/](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075406/)

I'm sorry but I believe that people who are not in the US legally should not
be going to our universities, let alone receive financial subsidies. They
should apply as citizens of the country that they are citizens of just as
anyone else who is not a US citizen and be subject to the same set of rules.
Universities, esp. state ones with lower in-state tuition costs have limited
number of spots that should go to residents of the state. For every person who
is not in the US legally that you admit into the state university at in-state
prices, you are depriving someone who is a citizen and a member of the state.
Completely unfair!

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aramadia
Maybe I'm confused, but how does a so called "illegal immigrant" child go
through 18 years of education only to get thrown under the bus later. Either
give them complete amnesty or check their passport when they enter grade
school.

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jamesli
The top-voted comments for the article in NYT website are horrendous regarding
H1B visa.

