
Ken Loach Says Marvel Films Are “Made as Commodities Like Hamburgers” - spking
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/ken-loach-says-marvel-films-are-made-as-commodities-like-hamburgers-1249205
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lostgame
Well, of course - these are 'Blockbuster' films, designed with high budgets,
like AAA games - they need to be _guaranteed_ to make back a significant
investment made into something with such high production values.

South Park recently lambasted this in S26E02, 'Band in China,' where we saw a
host of characters on their way to China - part of a group the series was
lambasting on selling out to China with regards to censorship. The characters
had been 'selling out' to expand their financial markets to China.

A film usually needs to make back _twice_ its budget in order to be deemed a
'financial success.' If that film has a budget of $80-180mil, the execs are
going to want it to fly with the lowest common denominator. If it happens to
actually say something as well, and become critically-acclaimed, such as
Joker, or the Dark Knight, well, that's an exception.

tl;dr: High budget superhero action films need to be guaranteed to make their
budget back. They are made to hit the lowest common denominator and sell
tickets. If they happen to be brilliant they are an outlier to the rule.

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EliRivers
Let's not forget that the studios have an artistic side too; Harry Potter and
the Order of the phoenix lost over a hundred and fifty million dollars (sic)
but out of the goodness of their hearts they pressed on with the series!

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rowanG077
How the fuck is that possible? It was one of the largest film franchises at
the time.

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EliRivers
They made a fortune out of it.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting)

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PhilWright
Hollywood always goes through cycles. Remember when most films were
simple/generic Westerns with John Wayne on screen every other month. Remember
after WW2 when there was a glut of war films. Some actors made there career
out of playing German bad guys. Or the prevalence of disaster movies in the
late 70's. Today it is Superheroes. In another 10 years? Who knows...

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mc32
Maybe the Russians will reprise their role and do an encore as the baddies
part deux for us —they are super safe guilt free baddies.

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rigorous
I haven't been to a movie theater in more that 10 years now. Almost every
trailer I see looks spectacularly boring. I am not exactly demanding audience
either. I just want movies to be (1) fun (2) interesting (3) exciting. The
recent-ish movies I saw (not in a theater) that would satisfy the given
criteria are It: Chapter 1, Upgrade and Arrival. Hollywood can make
extraordinary stuff if it wants, but currently it's tied up with modern day
"westerns"(?) aka superhero movies. Aren't people tired of "evil vs good +
explosions + unfunny one-liners" formula? What about stories like "I Have No
Mouth But I Must Scream" by Harlan Ellison or "Blindsight" by Peter Watts?
Wouldn't they look insane on the big screen?

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tracer4201
In general there’s too many “one man/woman/superhero’s only chance to save
country/world/universe” movies. The formula is oversaturated with too many
movies that try to make up for bad writing and uninteresting stories with
excessive CGI and explosions.

There’s also quite a bit of hypocrisy in Hollywood in general. They claim to
be progressive but I’m not sure I’ve seen many movies where the Indian guy
wasn’t comic relief or the Arab looking guy wasn’t a terrorist or other form
of antagonist.

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musicale
"How dare they make this lowbrow entertainment for the masses that packs in
audiences and makes tons of money for the studios! These "films" (if digital
projections can be graced with such a title) are no better than the tired,
clichéd superhero comic books that inspired them! We must demand nothing short
of the highest of art cinema, just as we insist upon the nutritious, gourmet
food that is typically served and consumed in movie theaters."

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lunias
Totally valid point, but what I what ponder is the extent to which blockbuster
movies (specifically the recent onslaught of sequels) consume the shared
resources available to make quality films; i.e. talent (videographers, actors
and actresses, directors, etc.), available slots for films that theaters have,
the audience's time, and mainly studio budgets.

Indie films can exist symbiotically; and I think they have been successfully.
It seems like there are many more movies, of all varieties, available today
than any other time in history. Although, I can't help but think about what we
don't have as a result of YASM (yet another superhero movie).

You could also argue that adding to the coffers with a "sure-thing" provides
more money to create new and innovative films, but I suspect currently that
profits go into bonuses, getting the same actors back again and again, and
production of the next "sure-thing".

I think there are a lot of movies now, but a lot of "bad" ones. The "good"
ones are either "more-of-the-same-good" or exposed to very small audiences.
Which may be less desirable for a diverse and interesting culture and society.

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supercanuck
But on the other hand, we’re currently living through some of the best
television series ever.

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Engineering-MD
What would you say is particularly noteworthy? I feel many series are as
described especially when targeted to mass audiences.

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wcarron
Archer, Bob's Burgers, Black Mirror, Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, Veep,
Parks and Rec, Community, Mr. Robot, Handmaid's Tail, Broad City, Schitt's
Creek, Bless this Mess, Atlanta, Bojack Horseman, Brooklyn 99, Barry,
Portlandia, Westworld, IASIP.

I could go on. Lot's of these are, of course, arguable, but honestly, the
2010's was just jam packed full of awesome television.

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Uhuhreally
as RedLetterMedia says: they're not movies, they're theme park rides

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krapp
And that's OK. People show up for spectacle and power fantasy and to see their
favorite superheros fighting on the big screen, they get what they pay for...
which isn't often the case with movies elsewhere.

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legostormtroopr
You know that really famous scene in Guardians of the Galaxy, where Djimon
Hounsou just asks "Who?". That is my reaction to this.

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hootbootscoot
I agree with this Ken chap. I suppose that the "The Fast/Furious Mission is
Impossible = quality cinema" crowd will demur, but I suppose, if your idea of
silver-screen greatness concurs with the Lego-Storm-Troopr here, aka "the most
popular singer in the world is clearly the best singer in the world", then I
suppose you will also disagree.

Action. Franchise. hello.

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gamblor956
Ken Loach said this of superhero films: " _They 're made as commodities like
hamburgers, and it's not about communicating, and it's not about sharing our
imagination._"

Superhero films are just a genre, like any other. It's a constraint that lets
you better express other themes or ideas.

Think about the best superhero films vs the worst ones. The good ones were all
about something, not just people running around in costumes. And all the bad
ones were just people running around in costumes.

Nolan _Batman_ : does power make right? (all) who has the right the enforce
justice? (bb and dkr) does peace by force breed a worse evil? (dk) how far can
you push people before they embrace their darker haves? (dk and dkr)

 _Captain America_ : what is patriotism? (all) can you trust authority? (WS)
the risks of concentrating power (WS) is rehabilitation viable (WS and CW) is
safety more important than liberty? (CW)

 _Wonder Woman_ : is it better to be a part of society or apart from it? is
the world worth saving? do woman have the power to shape the world?

 _Captain Marvel_ : can a woman succeed in a hero role without a male
romantic/sexual interest to feminize her? also, the power of propaganda to
literally shape how we view others (and especially, "The Other")

 _Black Panther_ : can black culture be identified with modernity and success?
what is the role of tradition and culture in modern society? does our true
power come from external sources or from within?

 _Spiderman_ (HC, FFH, IS): how much would the events of the Avengers films
actually affect daily life? (HC, FFH) what are the consequences of casual
implementation of government policy? (HC) what does it mean to be a superhero?
(IS) what is identity (IS) how much of life is driven by deception (FFH)?

 _X-Men_ : what does it mean to be an outsider/The Other? (1, 2) can The Other
become part of society (2, FC, DOFP)? Contrast with the universally derided 3,
Apocalypse, and DP, which don't appear to have any driving themes.

 _Aquaman_ : can man and nature exist together in a non-destructive state? can
mankind save itself?

 _Joker_ : what is sanity? how thin is the line between thought and action?
does inequality justify class-based warfare? does abuse justify retribution?

Contrast with the DC Justice League ensemble films, which don't have any
themes. They just have people in costumes stand around a fight CGI villains.
Snyder's Superman films have a concept (what if Superman killed?) but no
themes (since they backed away from actually exploring any of the religious
themes likening Superman to Jesus).

For those of you who haven't had to suffer through Ken Loach's works: they're
all pretentious, insufferable dramas that claim to be about something. But
they're trying so hard that they have to hit you over the head over and over
and over again so that you know that they're supposed to be about something.
Because if his works didn't explicitly tell you they were about something you
wouldn't know from the play/show/movie that it was anything deeper than the
poorly directed, poorly acted crap in front of you.

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bananamerica
I happen to love hamburgers.

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lostgame
I like hamburgers when I'm stoned, and don't necessarily lust after some
exquisite cuisine - I just want food, I'm lazy, I'll Uber Eats it, even - I
don't care - just give me a burger and fries, and, yeah, put on a 'shitty'
movie, I don't want to have to think.

And there's a lot of people in that state, especially after a hard day of
work.

