

The Secret of Self-control - limist
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/05/18/090518fa_fact_lehrer?printable=true

======
fhe
I lost interested about 1/3 of the way through the article. I remember reading
somewhere that long forms (5000+ word articles,which this particular one is,
or 2hr videos) just don't work so well on the Internet: either it's something
intrinsic to the Internet as a medium or we are being trained to having short
attention spans. Just as I was giving up on the article (and came to HN for a
summary), I realized that this is precisely what the article was talking
about: not having the patience/stamina for delayed gratification, presumably
will come about as one ploughes through the entire article.

My takeaway from the article: 1\. delayed gratification is important to
success. but even if you aren't good at it, you can hack it, by understanding
your thought process. 2\. there might be a place for long form journalism like
at the New Yorker, but it's probably going to be a small niche.

~~~
brianwillis
I had a similar reaction to the length of the article, but my conclusion was
different.

Just yesterday, someone posted a link on Reddit to an article written by a
young person who, for various reasons, refuses to adopt eReader technology.
The article inspired some great comments on Reddit, but one that stuck with me
came from the always insightful Kleinbl00
([http://www.reddit.com/r/gadgets/comments/d9jh2/at_26_im_part...](http://www.reddit.com/r/gadgets/comments/d9jh2/at_26_im_part_of_a_generation_raised_on_gadgets/c0yjrr4))
who drew an analogy to someone he once knew, taking the same stance with
music:

>Her solution was to go back to the CD wallets she used to carry around. Note
that her problem wasn't fidelity. Her problem wasn't portability. Her problem
was that for some reason she didn't have the attention span to listen to an
entire album in its entirety unless she was forced to press eject, fish the CD
into a wallet, fish another back out of a wallet, and fish it back into the CD
player while in traffic in Manhattan.

>And somehow, this was the fault of the iPod.

Attention management has never been harder. However, the problem isn't the
medium or the message, it's us. I've noticed that it's gotten harder over the
last few years for me to focus on _any_ long form writing. Yet the amount of
reading I do (in terms of words-per-day) has probably increased dramatically.
Even quieting down my mind enough to read books has become tough, despite
being something that used to be perfectly natural for me.

I'm sure this would make for an interesting discussion, so if any of you can
offer some guidance, speak up.

~~~
sheena
_However, the problem isn't the medium or the message, it's us._

Unless you're claiming that people themselves have fundamentally changed, I
don't see how the medium gets absolved of responsibility. The medium
influences us, doesn't it? We're trained daily by the things we do and how we
do them.

------
spicyj
Previously: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=603364>

~~~
RiderOfGiraffes
The discussion there is interesting, but now closed, as that was over a year
ago. I'm pleased to see this re-surface, and I've now added it to my "Great
Articles" repository, ready for the day when I get time to spend on that
project and need data to populate it.

~~~
michael_dorfman
Have you seen this site? <http://longform.org/>

I think it might be a good source for your "Great Articles" repository.

~~~
RiderOfGiraffes
Interesting - thank you. I'll visit there occasionally and see if there's
anything I think should be added. I've already found one.

I also found this: <http://givemesomethingtoread.com/>

------
adolph
Thanks for linking to this. RadioLab has an episode covering the same Walter
Mischel study, among other things:

[http://www.radiolab.org/blogs/radiolab-
blog/2009/mar/09/misc...](http://www.radiolab.org/blogs/radiolab-
blog/2009/mar/09/mischels-marshmallows/)

------
mansilla
Very interesting article, and indeed, a meta experiment in itself in the
context of it being a New Yorker piece (traditionally long form) in the
today's popular "gotta-have-it-this-instant gist" CNN blurb format.

Mischel's focus on context would probably explain why I had no problems
finishing this article -- I am a father of two young children that is
interested in their development and well-being. If you were to present me with
this article in the past, I'd probably be in the same boat as /fhe/ and bail
33% of the way through.

So, HN experiment to those that have bailed part way through the NY article
(and possibly most other long-form pieces): Assume that it IS worth reading
this entire article, because it's not just about the marshmallow experiment at
childhood, but has useful context to YOU as an adult that could positively
affect your life and those around you forever. (carrot) In that context, is it
enough for you to switch from the short-delay satisfaction of a "profound"
Twitter quotation, to the long-delay satisfaction of reading through an entire
thought-provoking and well crafted New Yorker long-form article?

------
annajohnson
Thanks for posting this. I've heard about this study but never knew the
details. I definitely think self-control/the ability to delay gratification is
one of the keys to success in any challenging endeavor, whether it's elite
sports or building a company. You have to have the ability to keep going when
it really hurts rather than opt for the easier, more immediately gratifying
path of giving up.

------
awlo
Isn't that an 'egg and chicken' type of problem? You can, after all, learn
self-control / to defer gratification.

~~~
quantumhobbit
chicken and egg indeed. It's easier once you have better self-control to learn
better self-control.

I've discovered that practicing meditation helps me a lot with self-control.

~~~
joe_the_user
It is situational.

You practice self control in situations where you have a reserve of self-
control - say, in your own house before bed time. Theoretically this will let
you build up a greater reserve for situations where you need more self-control
- confronting a subordinate or superior on a job.

------
philfreo
tl;dr version?

~~~
Natsu
You get self-control by finding effective ways to distract yourself from the
thing you want. If you focus on the thing you want you will give in to
temptation. In that vein, note that thinking about not thinking about X is
highly counter-productive. The kid who tried to stare down the treat caved
quickly.

More effective strategies were techniques like pretending the food isn't real
(telling themselves it's a picture, made of plastic, or whatever), singing
songs, hiding under the table, covering their eyes, etc.

Anything that actually gets one's mind off of the temptation will work.

The rest of the article was fluff about how it is more measurable than most
things in psychology, how he came up with it, how effective it was and
assorted anecdotes.

~~~
jerf
I am astounded by how much of the art of managing one's self is using your
forebrain to feed your hindbrain a carefully crafted set of "exaggerated
truths" that will produce the results the forebrain desires.

I say "exaggerated truths" because you can't really _de novo_ lie to your
hindbrain; it may "be a picture" or it may not be "important" but it is still
a marshmallow. But your forebrain gets a lot of leeway on what aspects get
enhanced and what aspects get suppressed.

And of course there isn't really a strict separation between "hindbrain" and
"forebrain", but as I am working in English this will have to do.

~~~
GeneralMaximus
> _I am astounded by how much of the art of managing one's self is using your
> forebrain to feed your hindbrain a carefully crafted set of "exaggerated
> truths" that will produce the results the forebrain desires._

Bokononism, anyone?

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Sapslzr
what about people following orders rather than waiting?

------
klbarry
Fantastic in a thousand ways.

