
How long does it take to develop a "good" product? - paul
http://friendfeed.com/e/0268007b-db20-4e2c-822f-7028a98016e4/How-long-does-it-take-to-develop-a-good-product/
======
run4yourlives
Wouldn't a better question be, "How many users does it take to build a good
product?"

The time equation comes from processing feedback loops, but the more users,
the better the loops, the better the feedback, the better the product.

Given that, it seems to be that it takes 2-3 years to acquire enough users
(and the resulting feedback) to make a good product.

~~~
paul
Not necessarily. The iPhone, for example, probably had very few users prior to
launching. (though the handful of users that it did have, such as Steve Jobs,
probably provided a lot of critical feedback)

~~~
staunch
Steve Jobs is equivalent to 10,000 actual users.

~~~
ivankirigin
You're dangerously close to a Chuck Norris thread.

------
tptacek
Awesome data points. But remember, "good" is the enemy of "shipping".

~~~
paul
Yes, I agree. Ship early and ship often, but understand that it probably won't
be "good" for some time. Back when Microsoft shipped, the joke was that it
took 3 versions to get any good at all (Windows being the perfect example).

~~~
volida
the good thing is that not many people understand that

~~~
derefr
Those that do versioned the first version of Windows NT "3.1", to give the
very impression the grandparent mentioned: that it had been through three
major releases (and a service pack) already, making it pretty darn good.
Whether or not the experience felt like a 3.1 is left as a question for the
user.

------
neilk
Is all really great software born in an environment where it was protected
from competition? Caveat , I am not drawing a causal relation, nor am I
claiming that competition doesn't produce merely good software. But a sort of
'happy childhood' may be necessary (although not sufficient) for great
software.

Just look at the examples... Google, three years in academia when business
considered search a cost rather than an asset. Gmail, again a long incubation.
All the great open source projects are like this too.

This seems to work best when the authors have little competitive pressure, but
somehow are able and willing to use that idyll to learn a lot about the
problem and the users.

------
sanj
Joel says 10 years:

<http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000017.html>

------
prakash
Paul, Friendfeed is blocked in the UAE, can you please provide an alternative
link or post this on your blog? Thanks.

~~~
paul
That's unfortunate. Any idea why it's blocked?

Do they block by hostname, or ip? You can try
[http://ff.im/e/0268007b-db20-4e2c-822f-7028a98016e4/How-
long...](http://ff.im/e/0268007b-db20-4e2c-822f-7028a98016e4/How-long-does-it-
take-to-develop-a-good-product/)

~~~
prakash
sweet. thanks.

The UAE and most other countries in the ME block websites and give this
message when you try to visit them:

 _"We apologize the site you are attempting to visit has been blocked due to
its content being inconsistent with the religious, cultural, political and
moral values of the United Arab Emirates."_

Twitter, Flickr are blocked as well. Generally the Internet in this neck of
the woods is heavily policed.

~~~
rms
Is circumventing the restrictions in the UAE something that can get you
arrested by the internet police? I know that in China it can, in theory, if
you're Chinese, but mostly they are looking for people _spreading_ subversion
rather than reading about subversion. I've heard in the Middle East it is more
economic restriction than cultural restriction -- VoIP services are blocked so
you have to use the phone company's long distance services.

What's to stop you from running Tor all the time, or proxying through your VPS
or someone else's VPS? (though I guess it would be annoying to have your
connection always slowed down by tunneling it around the world) I used to have
a webproxy running on my VPS, let me know if you want me to start it up again.
And the google keyword "start using cgiproxy" is good if you're in a pinch.

~~~
prakash
When it comes to VOIP its more economic than cultural, not so for other
services/websites. Speed/latency is the biggest challenge. That's really nice
of you, thanks, I will let you know if I need it. Interestingly, the first 3-4
links for "start using cgiproxy" are blocked as well :-(

