
When Keurig fights “coffee pirates,” who loses? Loyal consumers - danso
http://www.canadianbusiness.com/blogs-and-comment/keurig-coffee-piracy-obsolescence-ethics/
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click170
I get it, their business model is to sell the appliance for cheap and recoup
the costs on the K-cups. But this DRM "solution" is anti-consumer, anti-
competition, and isn't something I'm comfortable supporting. When my Keurig
dies, I will be downgrading to a coffee-pot style machine, and in the meantime
I will be avoiding the non-"pirate" Kcups.

I hope they turn around with their next versions, I enjoy the convenience even
at the higher cost. But I draw the line at new DRM. I concede there is already
DRM in my home, but my goal is to eliminate it all, not add more.

Edit: To be fair not all DRM is bad. DRM in Linux that prevents modules I
haven't signed from loading would be a Good Thing so to clarify, my goal is to
eliminate harmful DRM. Defined as anything _I_ don't have full control over.

~~~
cududa
If "DRM'ing" cups was anti-competitive why haven't there been any third-party
making cheap keurig-like machines for use with the cups on which the patent
expired?

~~~
colinbartlett
Because there's no money in the machine. The profit comes entitely from the
coffee pods.

~~~
FollowSteph3
Then the price for "standard" or "compatible" machines need to increase. A
company who offered this could potentially make some good money...

~~~
dllthomas
Only if they are able to convince people that paying more up front is worth
while for cheaper cups. That's always been a tough sell, even if it's correct.

~~~
colinbartlett
It seems like American consumers especially, have a hard time with the "higher
upfront for cheaper in the long run" way of thinking.

Look at all these cell phone companies that lock consumers into a two year
contract with a much higher monthly premium than an alternative prepaid
service. $200 phone + $100/month is somehow much more palatable than $800
phone + $50/month.

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foz
In Europe, a similar situation existed with Nespresso. They are absolutely
huge on the market here, and the machines are found in nearly every office
place (and many homes, where the capsules are different, to avoid people
stealing them at work).

Nespresso has lost nearly every attempt to protect exclusive control of the
capsules [1]. In grocery stores, you can find many compatible capsules and a
variety of flavors and choices.

[1] [http://qz.com/200161/someone-is-finally-forcing-nespresso-
to...](http://qz.com/200161/someone-is-finally-forcing-nespresso-to-open-
source-its-coffee-pods/)

~~~
bostik
I've always felf the entire brew pod setup is an answer to a single question:
"how do you get customers to accept cafeteria margins on their homebrew
coffee?"

Healthy competition is the only thing that keeps customers from getting
fleeced. Or skinned.

~~~
TillE
It's pretty strange and wasteful. I'm just not seeing the advantage over your
typical American electric drip coffeemaker. Insert filter, add ground coffee,
press a button.

Or if you can't wait a couple minutes, there's some half-decent instant coffee
available these days. If you're going to add milk and sugar anyway, it's
perfectly fine.

~~~
dllthomas
Tossing a K-cup in the trash is way cleaner and easier than wrangling a normal
filter-full-of-grounds into the compost. I don't find that advantage to be
_worth_ it, but it's an advantage.

~~~
judk
You can throw grounds in the trash like a kcup

~~~
dllthomas
The fact that grounds can go in the compost is a plus for the normal approach.
The downside is the wrestling of something comparatively large and more often
dripping, as opposed to tiny and comparatively self contained.

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CalRobert
Curmedgeon here, but if you want a small, easy to use, cheap coffee brewing
system, what's wrong with a french press? I got on for €6 and it works great.
Far less plastic waste, too.

~~~
mjklin
I've read reports that if you don't filter coffee through paper it can raise
cholesterol. As a person with high numbers I've been using Hamilton Beech's
Scoop to get a Keurig functionality from regular coffee.

~~~
keithpeter
Any references on what is being filtered out by the paper filter that _is_
transmitted by the mesh in a cafetiere or in a moka pot or expresso machine?

Just interested, not challenging, I'd imagine it is a particle size thing.

~~~
lngtmelistener
Supposedly Cafestol
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cafestol](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cafestol)
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1862798](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1862798)

~~~
personZ
Interesting that cafestol has also show anticarcinogenic and neuroprotective
traits, so this may be one of those things where recommendations continually
change over the years as groups study different effects.

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brandonmenc
This would be more sinister if there weren't already hundreds of ways to brew
coffee, most of which are cheaper - unlike the inkjet comparison, where there
really wasn't much consumer choice at that price point.

~~~
rodgerd
Theree are hundreds _today_. The objective around systems like this and
Nespresso is to move coffee making to the same kind of vertical integration
inkjet printing enjoys. Loss-leading on selling the devices is a great first
step if you're the prospective monopolist.

~~~
brandonmenc
A lot of dominoes more horrible than DRM would have to fall before Keurig and
Nespresso were the _only_ ways to get coffee.

Unless you're talking about "monopoly" like how Apple has a "monopoly" on
iPhones.

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jrockway
DRM exists for only one reason: to screw paying customers.

That said, can't you just take the electronics from a valid K-cup and solder
its contacts to whatever detection mechanism detects that the pod is valid?
I'd really love to see an analysis of the "security".

Meanwhile, I use a crazy system of brewing coffee involving inundating ground
coffee with boiling water. No electronics involved! Primitive! The vendor of
this brewing system also makes cool frisbees.

(Whoops, did I just use a registered trademark in a generic sense? Sic the
lawyers on me immediately!)

~~~
jbermudes
If I understand correctly, the DRM system consists of a special ink on the lid
of the cup. Therefore, some people have figured out that you can simply cut
off that piece and tape it to the detector so that it will always think you
have an official cup inside.

~~~
dllthomas
A work around for Keurig might be to include a serial number in the signed
payload, and keep a list of recent serial numbers.

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MoOmer
For those of you still using Keurigs, French presses or drip coffee, check out
the AeroPress: [http://priceonomics.com/the-invention-of-the-
aeropress/](http://priceonomics.com/the-invention-of-the-aeropress/)

~~~
UnoriginalGuy
So for people who "still" use Keurigs here is a product which is nothing like
that, with none of the same benefits, uses up more space, and is incompatible.

This might blow people's minds but maybe a lot of people buy K-Cups even
inspite of knowing about the alternatives and the relative costs/benefits of
both.

Single-serving machines require near no cleaning, minimal setup, you can
change drinks literally between cups, it is ready in 60 seconds, takes no
space/are portable, and they remain much cheaper than
Starbucks/McDonalds/Dunkin Donuts coffee (15c/cup Vs. 99c/cup or more).

~~~
MoOmer
As someone who has Keurigs at work, and enjoys coffee daily, I'd posted it for
those of us who view the Keurig as a device to brew good coffee quickly. The
AeroPress does this much better in my opinion (the flavor and quality
difference is huge). To some, maybe it doesn't hit all the specific benefits
they enjoy from a Keurig; to others, it's an excellent replacement.

Here are the steps to make coffee in an AeroPress:

1\. Grind coffee

    
    
        - I do this in bulk with a big grinder, and have fresh grounds for the day. You could also buy previously ground coffee.
    

2\. Put filter and grounds into AeroPress.

3\. Wet the plunger.

4\. Use a boiling water tap to pour over coffee.

5\. Stir 10 seconds.

6\. Push the plunger down, using air pressure to force the water through the
grounds.

    
    
        - this should take ~30 seconds to get the optimal flavor
    

7\. Remove cap, plunge grounds out of the squeaky clean tube (remember, we
just forced an inverted rubber stopper through the containment, cleaning it
pristine)

8\. Rinse cap

9\. Enjoy amazing, and amazingly strong, coffee/espresso

Process takes me about 30 seconds longer than Keurig.

~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
And completely misses the point.

What matters to most people isn't that Keurig takes 60 seconds (or whatever)
to make a cup of coffee, it's that it takes 60 seconds, _including about 5
seconds of interaction_ to make a cup of coffee.

I don't use my Keurig any more, but its primary appeal was I could drop in a
K-Cup, push start and walk away and then come back later to drink it.

~~~
MoOmer
If only I had specified the exact subset of users that would benefit most from
reading my recommendation, then that might have allayed your concerns.
Certainly, if it's not for you, then it's not for you.

------
Too
I think we will start to see more of this in any field in the futuere. I don't
know if its reached the market yet but I've heard talk of it in the automotive
engineering community. Car parts not related to electronic control get
embedded RFID chips to strengthen the immobilizer, you can not start the car
if some piece of plastic isn't signed. Might sound attractive at first as the
car gets harder to steal, just replacing a few ecus is not sufficient, but
what if you yourself want to replace a spare part using a third party
workshop.

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matt_morgan
If you have a Keurig pre 2, and you want to save plastic, these work:

[http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008XFE2YO/ref=oh_aui_detai...](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008XFE2YO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

Sounds like 2.0 will break these, which is evil; many people who use Keurigs
don't have much choice or say in what the office coffee machine is going to be
(e.g., I'm in a co-working space where I could only request that we not
install a Keurig 2.0; and where any place I'd move probably also uses
Keurigs).

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Arcticus
Isn't this over before it starts? Lexmark lost the battle when 3rd parties
reversed engineered their cartridge DRM and "reverse engineering for
interoperability" was added to the DMCA?

~~~
aroberge
The DMCA is a purely U.S. law. This article is in a Canadian Magazine about
the situation in Canada.

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ck2
Isn't this just an rfid chip?

Take it out of a real package and tape it to the machine.

Or is it more complex than that?

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Easier: barcode

~~~
jaak
Even easier, it uses an infra-red light to detect a specific wavelength
reflected from proprietary formulated ink markings printed around the rim of
the K-cup (source
[https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140704/07112927780/keuri...](https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140704/07112927780/keurig-
begins-demonstrating-its-coffee-drm-system-as-expected-it-has-nothing-to-do-
with-safety.shtml) )

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qwerta
With tea we do not have such problems :-)

~~~
wmobit
The keurig actually does have tea pods, which produce pretty awful tea

~~~
likeclockwork
"He had found a Nutri-Matic machine which had provided him with a plastic cup
filled with a liquid that was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea."

