
Why I Regret Making My House a Smart-House (2013) - un_montagnard
http://www.finehomebuilding.com/2013/08/14/why-i-regret-making-my-house-a-smart-house
======
ChuckMcM
Dr Brooks, of MIT Robotics fame, came up with a really elegant solution for
the complexity of robots, he called it subsumption. As an architecture it
worked by allowing all of the small bits of a robot to be independently
functional but merely "influenced" by a higher authority. That worked through
a series of behaviors that were built in that could be overridden by external
input.

Consider the case of a 'leg'. A robot needs to lift its legs and move them
forward in order to achieve forward locomotion. This means it needs a gait
where it steps while keeping itself balanced. Brooks created a system where
the highest ranked function that could run, would. So if the robot was stable,
it unlocked the 'lift function' and if the leg was lifted it unlocked the
higher priority forward function, and if the leg was forward it unlocked the
higher priority balance function. I really liked it a lot and have used it in
other embedded systems since then.

As a result I see the "smart" house system similarly, which is that I would
build systems that were self contained, and could see input from outside. Take
a light for example, it would have 'on', 'off', 'dim' and 'i don't care'. If
you command it to any point, it goes there. Period. If it is in 'i don't care'
the house controller is free to tell it to do something different.

~~~
lisper
Subsumption seemed like a cool idea when it was introduced, but it turns out
that it does not actually work.

[http://www.cs.uml.edu/~holly/91.549/readings/tla.pdf](http://www.cs.uml.edu/~holly/91.549/readings/tla.pdf)

~~~
Animats
Back then, I said that we needed more structure than Brooks, but less
structure than Latoumbe (a professor at Stanford into efficient exhaustive
search planning). Before Brooks, there was a long tradition of detailed
planning in AI. Brooks totally rejected planning. This is an extreme position,
but the planning and re-planning people were having trouble coping with the
real world.

Brooks' Roomba is an expression of that model. The Roomba has a few simple
behaviors - go in straight line, spiral, follow wall - and a state machine to
switch between them. It has no idea where it is. Most later robot vacuums have
actual navigation, because Roombas are notorious for getting themselves into
the same traps over and over. Both overplanned and purely reactive systems
have trouble coping with the real world, but they fail in different ways.

~~~
lisper
> Latoumbe

I presume you mean Latombe?
[http://ai.stanford.edu/~latombe/](http://ai.stanford.edu/~latombe/)

> This is an extreme position, but the planning and re-planning people were
> having trouble coping with the real world.

Yes. The whole field wasted decades running afoul of Ron's First Law: all
extreme positions are wrong. This is why the three-layer architecture
described in the link above (reactive behaviors sequenced by a state machine
informed by a deliberative planner) eventually became the de facto standard,
because it combines both approaches in a way that actually fits the structure
of the problem.

------
alkonaut
I wouldn't mind a smart home so long as e.g light switches have the response
time (1ms?)! and reliability (1 million switchings without hiccup?) of a
regular switch.

The acceptance level for "problems" switching lights on or off is pretty much
zero.

If all the smart functions fail, it has to fall back to a functioning dumb
home, like escalators become stairs when broken. Not a non-working home like a
broken elevator...

~~~
noonespecial
Fail like an escalator not like an elevator. Brilliant. I'll trade you an
upvote for shamelessly stealing that little nugget.

~~~
agumonkey
Temporarily stairs

\- Mitch Hedberg

~~~
hudibras
We apologize for the convenience.

~~~
agumonkey
Took me 3 times to read your comment (in)correctly.

------
t413
Yes, it seems like Control 4 was the root of his problem. My architect aunt
always builds homes with similar expensive and locked-in systems and although
they do seem to last reliably for years they're 10's of thousands of dollars
and locked into a certain set of functionality and hardware. But there are
alternatives now.

My $50 Wink hub runs my apartment's 5x $30 z-wave dimmers, 1x $25 front door
sensor, and 1x $75 z-wave thermostat and 1x $15 cree xbee LED bulb I
cannibalized to drive some low voltage LED fairy lights. That's $315, ordered
piecemeal and all delivered amazon prime. It's been rock-solid reliable for
about two years. I recently added Amazon Alexa voice control and used the open
source 'HomeBridge' node project to add Siri integration (which ROCKS).

There are inexpensive connected-home systems now. Spend an afternoon wiring
one up!

~~~
dgacmu
Strongly concur. We're remodeling right now, and I just had a conversation
with my electrician about this. I purchased eight z-wave dimmers and four
slave switches for the house, and he raved to me about how easily the install
had gone. He says he normally has to spend about $300 on a high-end Lutron
model to get the equivalent functionality. I think I've got a convert here. :)

Smart switches have been a godsend when dealing with an old house with old
wiring. We had no lights in our living room -- but there were two small ones
controlled by a switch on the second floor. Two bookshelf lights, one smart
outlet plug, and a smart switch for the second floor + one controller == turn
on the living room lights from the entryway, as FSM intended, without running
any new wiring.

I've been a little grumpy about trying to be clever with the smartthings hub,
but turning all the lights off at bedtime works, and I won't complain much.

~~~
jondiggsit
These are good alternatives until you are building a large house, where you
have, say 300 switch legs, 90 dimmers, 75 keypads, etc. You start to realize
Lutron is your friend.

~~~
dgacmu
I'd believe it. Do you have pointers to anything more with experience about
this? What falls down?

(That said, I don't see needing to go there. My house has, from a quick mental
count, about 52 total switches. I'm probably missing a few, but that's the
right ballpark. A 300 switch house sounds like a monster.)

~~~
jondiggsit
Lutron RA2 systems are very reliable. I centrally (home-run) wire all of the
switches for future upgradeability, but I have very little issue with their
systems. They can run wirelessly, but if its new construction, must also wire.

Unless the application is a Star Wars level system, I recommend RA2, otherwise
Lutron Homeworks can be your best friend.

------
Loic
They went for a closed solution instead of using a standard based solution.
They also went for wireless dimmer/light switches instead of wired.

If you build for 40 years, stop thinking like a young programmer jumping on
the new trend, you need to go with robust solutions even if they cost 10%
more. If you build a house, you can even wire it in a way to later add the
smart features just where you effectively need them.

~~~
alkonaut
If you build a "smart home" begin by accepting that all of lf it should be
written off and replaced in 10 years.

If the system is wired, chances are only central hubs/displays need to be
changed. With a wireless system then ALL the switches and sockets will have to
be changed.

~~~
mcguire
" _...accepting that all of lf it should be written off and replaced in 10
years...only central hubs /displays need to be changed._"

That seems contradictory.

~~~
alkonaut
I meant that the "modern" tech must be replaced, if you use wireless then
senders and receivers (meaning a central hub and all fixtures) likely has to
go in order to support a new standard. With a wired system there is some hope
that the wires can stay and carry a new standard.

------
brennen
A futile but heartfelt plea: Stop putting computers in shit.

~~~
ecopoesis
Stop putting shit computers in shit.

My house is ~140 years old. We've put lots of smarts into it. Nest thermostats
that just work and flip on AC or heat when our phones connect to the house's
WiFi. We've replaced all the common area light switches with Lutron Caseta
switches. These too remove 3-way wiring by replacing remote switches with
little remotes that fit in your now empty work box. They have a hub you can
use to connect to the internet, but they also work fine by themselves. In some
rooms we use Philips Hue lights because there are no built in lights (or if
there is infrastructure for lights, it's for gas lamps). The Hue stuff does
need its hub to work. Our smoke detectors are all Nest Protects. They just
work without issue. None of this stuff has ever failed, and it can all be
programmed by mere mortals using IFTTT. Or controlled by Amazon Echo, which is
what we actually do.

~~~
goblin89
Wouldn’t mind reading in more detail about your setup.

~~~
ecopoesis
made it a blog post: [http://miker.org/this-old-smart-
house/](http://miker.org/this-old-smart-house/)

~~~
goblin89
Thanks for sharing your setup, pointers to stuff that works like Caseta and
Sonos and how you make it all work together are really useful as I’m in the
process of working out a smart home of my own. I felt like it might be of
interest to others here so I submitted it as a post.

------
knz
The title is a bit sensationalist.

I have < $1,000 invested in home IoT (security sensors, a couple of light
switches, garage door opener, thermostat, and the hub) and have been very
happy with it.

Personally I see IoT as augmentation not total replacement. Don't replace
lights/switches for the sake of it - wait until you have a valid use. Buy
devices that use commonly used standards and you should avoid vendor lock in
issues.

IoT threads always get the "Why would you need a smart house" answers...

Some of my use cases so far...

\- Remotely control home heating - peace of mind when on vacation and being
able to sit at DIA and come home to a warm house is awesome

\- Used "smart lighting" when I had infants in the house during the frequent
middle of the night trips to the kitchen/laundry etc

\- Remotely open the garage door - useful if a family member calls in to pick
up something when no one is home. Useful when HomeLink in the car fails for
some reason.

\- Security system - we've had issues with neighbourhood kids trying to get
into an external hot tub. The security system turns on external lights when
there is motion and notifies me. If someone tries to open a door/window is
sets off an alarm and turns on a small lamp so I don't wake up in pitch black
conditions.

\- Water sensors under sinks and by the sump pump - our house was destroyed by
a leak several years ago. The peace of mind from having this monitored is
worth it alone for my family.

\- Lighting - external holiday lights. Also hooked up the security system to
give anyone prowling around a festive surprise (my long term goal is to
combine this with opensprinkler...)

~~~
internaut
The water sensor one is a good use case but the others seem a bit weak.

They seem like the kind of technology I could have developed or even bought
off the shelf in 1980. I was talking to one guy who says the security sensors
to detect footfall were better decades ago.

These are the kinds of use cases I'd like to see:

1\. If my house is broken into, I want intruders isolated such that they have
to break down every door before they can be in contact with me. Bizarre that
my internal doors should work for my ax-murderer/burglar.

2\. I want my countertops/bathroom to be given a targeted UV wash. Same with
handles of doors/fridges etc.

3\. A complete inventory of all food in my fridge and cupboards. I could then
try out new recipes depending on what I had in stock. I imagine this is within
reach with present day technology.

4\. Funnel daylight into fibre optic cables and into my lights so I don't use
electricity for light during the day. Full colour spectrum too, can't beat
free.

One smart house application I liked was smart glass which was able to alter
itself depending on whether you wanted to accept radiant heat or reject it. I
think these are still prototypes.

The other one I liked was the Toto Intelligence Toilet which analyzed your
health from your stool/urine. Having an intelligent cupboard/fridge
controlling your inputs and the toilet analyzing the outputs could genuinely
put a dent in Western lifestyle diseases. I see no progress on this front
except for one presentation from Toto in Japan. They don't appear to sell this
anymore.

That magic mirror shit is very visually impressive. The commercial
interpretations I've seen are frankly unimpressive. The hobbyists we see on
Reddit and HN are doing a great job. Every bathroom and hallway mirror ought
to have those abilities.

To date I don't see much that is 'smart' about smart houses. I hope to be
proven wrong!

~~~
knz
>The water sensor one is a good use case but the others seem a bit weak. They
seem like the kind of technology I could have developed or even bought off the
shelf in 1980. I was talking to one guy who says the security sensors to
detect footfall were better decades ago.

Sure they aren't cutting edge but they work and add a minor amount of
value/security at home for little cost. I do some hobby things on the side
(ads-b tracking etc) but other family members get the most value from the
simple IoT functionality.

All of your ideas would be great but the technology isn't affordable it mature
enough for consumers currently.

~~~
internaut
> Sure they aren't cutting edge but they work and add a minor amount of
> value/security at home for little cost. I do some hobby things on the side
> (ads-b tracking etc) but other family members get the most value from the
> simple IoT functionality.

Sure, I'm not really knocking what you're doing, it's just that there's a
point at which you start to think "Wait, I've heard this before". Perhaps you
become a cynic. I think it was the multicoloured light bulbs for the low low
price of 200 dollars 99 cents for a pack of three that did me in.
[https://imgflip.com/i/1fqj14](https://imgflip.com/i/1fqj14)

> All of your ideas would be great but the technology isn't affordable it
> mature enough for consumers currently.

I don't really understand why it has to be so expensive. It's so expensive
it's easier to roll your own magic mirror or whatever. I know the raw
ingredients like sensors are cheaper than ever.

~~~
knz
I don't disagree re the Hue bulb. Personally I went for the GE link ($10-15 on
sale for a z-wave LED bulb).

~~~
dangrossman
Those are actually ZigBee, not Z-wave.

------
nicolas_t
I plan to have a smart house but when I do it, it'll be using an opensource
solution running a software that I can debug myself, setup in a way that it
can fallback to just being manual (so switches for the light would need to
work normally if the system is not on) and I want things to be wired since I
feel that most wireless solutions add too much complexity.

Basically any system like this should not be a liability and should not
prevent reselling the house if I ever need to.

I'm not really sure smart house devices are ready yet for non programers to
play with but as a dev, it'd be a huge amount of fun getting it to work :)

~~~
alkonaut
The problem with open source is that the hardware is rarely "open enough", and
the software is a small enthusiast niche so it's rarely polished and
"complete".

I'd rather accept that the installation has a lifers of 10 years and just buy
a proprietary system complete with service and guarantees, then rip it out and
replace it all in 10 years.

Agree on wired - and also, smart switches etc have to be usable with standard
light switches and power sockets otherwise you are stuck with a tiny selection
of ugly fixtures.

~~~
StavrosK
I should write about my smart home setup, if nothing else, just to give you
guys ideas.

I've designed and fabricated light and temperature sensors that I've placed in
every room, and lights are controlled by a combination of Sonoff switches
(they're great, I've written my own firmware for them
([https://gitlab.com/stavros/sonoff](https://gitlab.com/stavros/sonoff)) and
YeeLight lamps (I've written my own library and cli client:
[https://yeelight.readthedocs.io/en/latest/](https://yeelight.readthedocs.io/en/latest/),
[https://gitlab.com/stavros/yeecli/](https://gitlab.com/stavros/yeecli/)).

My sensor boards
([https://github.com/skorokithakis/esplights](https://github.com/skorokithakis/esplights))
can also output RF and IR so I can control various devices in the room, like
TVs and ACs. I've hooked this all up to a small Python script that talks to
the devices over an MQTT server, separated the network for all this crap into
a vlan with no access anywhere (other than the MQTT server and the OTA
firmware upgrade server), and now I can successfully sound like a lunatic with
way too much free time on the internet.

~~~
lawik
Sweet lunacy, you make me envy your free time. How do you usually use the
system? Automation? Remote control. I get what it can do, curious what you
actually fo with it :)

~~~
StavrosK
Both, I have it set so lights go on and off when someone enters/exits the
room, it logs temperature in rooms just because, and I have a task on my phone
(using Tasker) with an NFC tag on my nightstand that turns everything off when
I go to bed.

It's nice to not have to touch any light switches ever, you walk into a room
and the lamp just slowly fades into light.

I know how crazy this sounds (because I roll my eyes at people who say "I have
a task on my phone" too), but it's not really very hard to do. I control
everything through an HTTP message queue I wrote
([https://github.com/skorokithakis/gweet/](https://github.com/skorokithakis/gweet/))
and a simple Android app I... also wrote... and... I should get fewer hobbies.

~~~
lawik
Appreciate the details. I'd love to do similar stuff but priorities,
priorities, priorities.

Was not aware that there are actually useful NFC stuff. Last time someone
showed it to me it was pretty meh and I've heard that Android had a terrible
implementation (Beam something?). I might be living on old info but I so
rarely see anything about NFC except for payments.

~~~
StavrosK
Yes, there is, you can get dirt-cheap NFC stickers that you can put places and
use Tasker to detect them. I mainly fire HTTP requests when a sticker is
detected, but I use them for other things as well:

* I stuck one with my wifi password on the back side of a painting, so I just tell visitors who want wifi "touch your phone to the boat on the painting" and they get a prompt to connect to the wifi.

* I put one in the car to set all volume to max and enable bluetooth and launch the music app.

* I put one on the nightstand to trigger night mode in the house and silence alerts and stuff.

You can do various things like that, it's pretty useful.

~~~
lawik
From my reading Apple doesn't allow NFC for anything aside from Apple Pay.
Severly limits the usefulness for me sadly. I'd say I encounter 50% iDevices.

------
twothamendment
I've taken a very different path to a smart home - and I don't have any
regrets. First - the house was built as any dumb-house would be - 3 and 4 way
switches really are, with copper in the walls. I wired for alarm, but didn't
bother to hook it up right away.

What is working now? The alarm is connected to a raspberry pi so I can hook
into it. Now it arms/disarms at a set time each day so I don't have to
remember to do it. It can text/email me when states that I care about have
changed - like when the power is out, or the alarm goes off.

Z-wave - for a few light switches that really matter to me, mostly outside
lights. Most are on a cron job to do what I want, but a web UI lets you take
control.

Wi-fi thermostat with an API - no 3rd part website needed. Why can't they all
be this way? I can turn the system off when I'm out of town and fire it up
before I get home. I also wrote some stuff to log usage each day along with
the weather. Adding the alarm system status with the HVAC status and it will
text me if the A/C is running and a window is open.

Garage door, custom GPIO hack to the opener. Now with the alarm status it can
make sure it is shut each night. I can open/close it from a web page, but that
is rarely used.

Alexa skill - this is the latest piece and the only one that needs Internet to
keep working (except sending email, of course). It ties into all the other
pieces and gives voice control to the parts that make sense for me. I won't
let it disarm the alarm, I just don't trust a 3rd party to do that.

I pieced this together so I could learn and have something to play with, but
now it is just nice. The best part is if something quits working, I'm not left
in the dark like the guy in the article - I just have to get off my butt and
hit the light switch or walk out and open the garage door.

I have something against smart home stuff that requires the company to stay in
business and keep their servers up and running, but that comes at a cost - I
have to roll my own. At least I know who to complain to when it is broken.

~~~
casey_lang
Your raspberry pi note is interesting. My house has an alarm system in place
from the previous owner which I've turned off and is not in use. I've been
curious to know if there was anyway for me to utilize the fairly complete set
of sensors without involving the original alarm company.

~~~
twothamendment
I'm using an AD2USB
([http://www.alarmdecoder.com/catalog/product_info.php/product...](http://www.alarmdecoder.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/29))
to get an old school Ademco Vista 20p hooked up to the pi. Once you do that
they have a decent python project
([https://github.com/nutechsoftware/alarmdecoder](https://github.com/nutechsoftware/alarmdecoder)).

Thanks to projects like these, the old, hardwired systems can be connected and
be useful for more than they were intended. I don't mind my vista 20p once it
is up, but they can be pain to setup the way you want. The good news is, once
you do that you likely will never touch it again.

------
Falling3
I worked as a programmer working with one of biggest home automation hardware
companies in the world. Unfortunately, based on my experience, I don't think
the products are yet at a point where anyone who doesn't full understand the
hardware and software that's going into their homes should have a "smart
home".

People who spent _millions_ on their systems were consistently disappointed
and upset due to a combination of hardware and software failures with no
fallbacks.

~~~
kevin_thibedeau
That company is migrating away from the complex custom programming model and
toward having components that just work together upon installation.

~~~
Falling3
You're absolutely right. But there are still several issues:

\- Their hardware is _expensive_. Orders of magnitude in some cases above
alternatives. Part of the justification for the cost has been the flexibility
and customization options available.

\- Their hardware failure rate is abysmal.

\- Their customer service is non-existent and all purchases/returns must go
through dealers.

\- Most homeowners want to integrate with 3rd party systems: hvac, pool/spa,
security. These generally require a programmer to some extent.

\- They just don't get it right a lot of the time. I've dealt with plenty of
their devices that are just support to work out of the box. They generally
don't.

------
lozaning
The author of the article should have titled the post, Why I regret going with
Control 4. There are any number of more DIY style solutions that at this point
blow the control 4 features out of the water at a 10th of the price.

SmartThings or wink hub, some ge z-wave switches, some chrome casts audio's, a
google home, and a nest or ecobee 3 thermostat, and this guy would have have
been fine.

~~~
Matthias247
Maybe for now, but problems will arise sooner or later when the products get
not longer supported or discontinued. Of those things you listed there's a
high possibility most of those won't work anymore in 10 years. And you
normally build houses for longer timespans and don't want to change basic
controls (lighting, heating) short intervals. I wouldn't invest a large amount
in Smartthings or Google products for those reasons. The Z-Wave might be one
of the more reasonable things, as the protocol and device classes are
standardized and most devices are interoperable. But with the so much
fragmented home automation domain (there's KNX, Z-Wave, Z-Wave Plus, Enocean,
Zigbee HA, Zigbee LL, and dozens of others) it's even questionable how long
classic Z-Wave will survive.

~~~
breser
SmartThings is Z-Wave and Zigbee compatible. SmartThings is just a hub to
control devices that work on those protocols. If you decide you don't like
SmartThings anymore for whatever reason you just replace it with a different
hub that also supports whatever protocol you've got devices for.

~~~
mnglkhn2
SmartThings relies on their cloud setup in order to execute the logic for the
smarts you have inside your home. This is why it might take more/longer to get
a command to execute. One hub that has all the logic locally, inside it, and
that you can program it with Lua is VeraPlus by Vera Control.

~~~
madengr
The SmartThings has the logic inside too; cloud is just used for setup. I can
pull the Ethernet and power cables, and it works fine, triggering my water
shutoff valve when a leak is detected.

------
bartread
I've always felt like a smart house is a solution begging a problem and this
really just confirms it. I'll take my house dumb and functional. Two things
I'd like that I don't have:

\- A master light switch by the front and back doors,

\- A heating controller that I can control remotely, so I can turn it on when
I'm on the train about an hour before I get home (my work routine is quite
fluid), rather than have it on a regular schedule.

Both of these are fairly simply fixed but the fact that I've never bothered to
do either probably says everything about how much I really value them.

I do not and never have liked locked in systems. If I have to call someone to
figure out why the lights in my house aren't working properly this is going to
make me very miserable, very quickly.

------
Terretta
This problem space was very different in 2013 vs now in 2016 going on 2017.

Today, all the things he's talking about can be covered in a consumer system
plus iOS or Android app.

My recommendation is to start with Lutron Caseta switches for lights which
look and behave precisely like traditional switches with all the traditional
benefits, but are also readily integrated into a smart home set up. You can
use it all either way, and both ways are fine: Luddite friendly.

For the primary media room I'd use Logitech Harmony Smart Home Hub and
remote[1]. After a decade of fooling with dynamic remotes, these days I prefer
the one without a screen because visitors "get" the traditional icon buttons.

Then, depending on your choice of mobile device, I'd build out multi room
audio and multi TV video using Airplay for an iOS household or Chromecast for
an Android household. This way the playback point is visible to the mobile OS
and available across apps.

I'd add Echo Dots for room by room voice control if interested, because Alexa
pays attention all the time while Siri may need to be poked before listening,
and it's good at discovering all these smart home control systems.

The cost delta from good Lutron dimmer switches to the Caseta line is small.
The cost delta from a good universal remote to the buttons-only Harmony is
almost nil. The cost of Chromecast or Apple TVs per video or audio playback
point is reasonable, as is the cost of Echo Dot per room.

None of this approach involves a lock in to a service contract with some home
automation company where even their control panels cost more than iPad Pros,
can't do anything else, and are obsolete and unpatched a couple years later.

1\. For primary media room:
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JHQZSHW/](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JHQZSHW/)

2\. Lutron Caseta starter with the right smart home bridge/hub:
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LWX1PFW](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LWX1PFW)

------
bradgessler
It's really important to eliminate single points of failures in home control
systems. I've wired my apartment with Insteon controllers, which are capable
of talking to each other without needing a central controller. I also have a
server setup that can control all devices from my phone or Siri. When the
centralized server fails to work, I can still control devices via the Insteon
switches that talk directly to the devices.

If you're interested in building out such a system check out the home-
controller nodejs package, InsteonUSB PowerLinc modem, and of course any
insteon devices.

In my opinion the best home automation systems are decentralized networks of
devices that can work independently or cooperate with each other.

~~~
ocdtrekkie
The fun part though of those independent communicators is when they have minds
of their own. :D I decided to use an old Insteon controller that I hadn't been
using for anything for my Christmas lights, and it was really hard to figure
out why it kept turning on and off by itself. For some inexplicable reason it
was linked to my thermostat. :/

But in general, yes, it's awesome that my Insteon remotes work even if my home
automation software on my PC crashed out, and that my thermostats and light
switches all operate normally when the Internet is down.

------
myrandomcomment
I just remodeled and used this -
[http://www.insteon.com](http://www.insteon.com)

Every plug, light switch, door sensors, HVAC, cameras. Simple iPhone
application to control. Single hub controller everything talks to.

This does not have all the bells and whistles that the zwave, zigby, et.al.
have but it just works. They do support HomeKit from Apple but not for all
devices yet (door sensors).

Same company that did the original X10 stuff for automation in the 80s.

Not unhappy.

~~~
rbritton
Does it require full internet access to work? That's my biggest gripe with my
Nest thermostat: it requires a round-trip through their server just to control
the temperature, even when I'm on the same network.

~~~
ocdtrekkie
The Insteon Hub is cloud-based, generally, it uses an app to talk to their web
server. Individual components don't have any network capability, just the hub.
It is, however, possible to use local software with an adapter with Insteon,
though they don't give it a lot of attention anymore, because they want to
compete with the trendy new companies on the block.

I use Insteon completely locally running software I wrote more or less myself
on my desktop PC.

~~~
myrandomcomment
Link please?

~~~
ocdtrekkie
Link to what specifically?

~~~
myrandomcomment
I was under the impression there is a doc someplace that talks about the local
interface. My google foo failed me.

------
oneshot908
While I have avoided smart housing like the plague I think it is, I have my
own peeve:

Hardwired 10 Gb Ethernet throughout the house.

Best ISP: 2.4 Mb to the house.

~~~
TulliusCicero
Do you live in the middle of nowhere or something?

~~~
koenigdavidmj
The best ISP an hour from Austin still advertises that they are ten times
faster than dialup.

~~~
oneshot908
Not to mention the spotty Google Fiber throughout the downtown. I love Austin.
It's like Santa Cruz but with much better beer and BBQ.

------
edblarney
The lack of standardization, all the things that can go wrong, overzealous 3rd
parties, uneeded 'notifications' etc. etc..

A) Aside from possibly turning the lights off after you forgot. B)
Surveillance if you live in a really bad hood C) Possible optimization of
heating/cooling to save$ ...

I just don't see it.

I'm never worried about A. B ... well that's another issue. A decent
thermostat would solve C if it was a problem.

I just don't see the grand utility in any of it, including Alexa or the Google
in-home thing.

If I have a weird question I can ask my iPhone Siri - which I never do anyhow.

The opportunity for home automation is I think limited, and it's inherently
plagued with platform integration issues.

I have better things to do with my time.

~~~
TheOtherHobbes
A few simple use cases:

Remote heating control. Go on holiday, leave the heating in frost-protection
maintenance mode in the winter, turn it on again at the airport. Come back to
a warm house, but plenty of energy saved.

Sunrise/sunset lighting. I have the lights in my office set up to turn on
around dusk and turn off around 3am if I haven't already gone to bed. This
works so well I hardly ever think about it now. It also means the house looks
occupied when I'm away.

Motion-sensing light switches. I experimented with these, but it's a harder
problem than it seems. I set up a PIR switch in the kitchen, and being able to
walk in/out while carrying plates/food/things without having to hit the lights
manually is amazingly useful.

Problem is PIR sensors have a limited range and are easily confused by various
domestic heat sources. I was going to experiment with multiple sensors and
more reliable software, but got distracted by a house move. So that hasn't
happened - yet.

I still think user tracking combined with light level sensors would be
amazingly useful. Switches on walls are probably going to be redundant when
automation really arrives.

Colours and such are much less interesting than having smart lights that work
so well you only have to think about them when you want them to do something
unusual.

Having said that, I have mixed feelings about voice control. I have Alexa
controlling some of the lights, and I don't find it very natural. This may be
an unusual view, but I think speech is a channel of emotional communication,
and tone carries a lot of information.

It's second nature when talking to humans, but talking to machines falls into
some kind of social uncanny valley. It's impossible to do it without being
reminded that you usually think about tone while talking, but now you don't
have to - so of course you still do, but think you shouldn't, even though you
can't stop.

~~~
Retra
That's a significant time, cost, and effort you're spending on what amounts to
micro-optimizations though. Using a standard light switch is maybe half a
second of effort. (Not an improvement over getting your light-control ap out.)
It only makes some sense if you live in a huge space where you have to walk
for 5 seconds to get to the switch or your heating takes 2 hours to warm a
room.

Color me cynical, but it seems like a big hassle to solve a non-problem.

------
brenschluss
> The system will shut off if it reaches 104 degrees to protect itself. Every
> time I touch that thing its hot to begin with. I got it to cool down enough
> to go back on, and now its been suggested I install a hole and a fan in a
> closet packed with HVAC and A/V equipment.

This is funny to me - of course a closet packed with HVAC and A/V equipment
should be cooled! It's a server room!

As someone designing a smart building - the key is to find protocols and
systems that 1) work with open protocols such as Z-wave, and 2) always have a
hardware interface that works as a failsafe, so that even if the controller
completely malfunctions or if the internet malfunctions, everything will still
be fine as a 'dumb house'. Or 3) Use specific technologies from companies
whose entire business model depends on the technology working -- say, Sonos.

So. In the building I'm designing: Z-wave light switches are normal switches,
yet wirelessly controllable and will report their status back to the
controller. Z-wave thermostats can be controlled locally and globally. Sound
systems are Sonos. Ethernet ports are mostly PoE as to allow for future 12V
devices. An alarm system is installed by a dedicated alarm company. Everything
is designed to work without internet or wifi or the z-wave base controller.

I'm coding a Slack-based interface, which has the added benefit of being
interface + human-readable logging system in one.

~~~
mrb
What Z-wave switches are you using? Do you recommend any ZigBee switches (that
function similarly)?

~~~
brenschluss
After a ton of research, I'm using the HomeSeer HS-WD100+ and HomeSeer HS-
WS100+ (Dimmer & Switch) - they have Instant Status, which means that if
they're turned off/on by hand, they'll poll the base station with their
updated info.

Looks like they were recommended by the Wirecutter also! I feel quite
justified in my research. ([http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-z-wave-in-
wall-dimmer/](http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-z-wave-in-wall-dimmer/))

------
Thriptic
My parents bought a house with a similar system installed, albeit from
Crestron. It has been a constant source of frustration and disappointment. The
AV control that they installed which cost a pretty penny is totally inferior
to my harmony hub / chrome cast / fire stick / echo setup which cost me a
fraction of the price.

The biggest problem is once you install these systems you're effectively
locked in forever. Abandoning the system requires so much new hardware.

------
shakna
> What I would like, is to come in from a long day in my shop and have a house
> that works. I have grown weary and no longer care how smart it is.

Here, I think we find the problem.

The author doesn't know the system, he didn't build it, and has little use for
it.

I don't think a smart house ever made sense for him.

The only places it does make sense, to me are:

* Health. Monitoring health, or enabling someone to better care for themselves.

* A project, by someone who wants to control and automate parts of their house, but will never truly be satisfied.

~~~
tamcap
How does the project part work long term? I could put together something as a
project, and probably maintain it a low effort long term, but what happens
once I want to sell the house? Do I replace back all the switches back to dumb
ones? Teach the new owner how to use it long term? (yeah, good luck) Leave it
as is, potentially decreasing the value of my house?

~~~
ocdtrekkie
I took all my smart hardware with me. I kept the originals or got cheap
replacements, and sold my old place as a perfectly normal, working house. (But
not a smart one.) When I moved, I already had most of the equipment to make it
smart!

I also took my LED light bulbs, those suckers are coming with me for life.

------
762236
How resilient are smart systems to voltage surges? Do you risk blowing out all
of your smart switches and outlets during surges? There is the possibility of
installing whole-house surge protection, but that only protects against
external surges, and their clamping voltages are probably too high (so that it
lasts a long time, since the MOVs sacrifice themselves) to protect the smart
circuits.

~~~
jondiggsit
Definitely need to protect the processors/servers on a location by location
basis from voltage surges. The switches and outlets will be fine.

~~~
762236
The smart switches and outlets have microcontrollers and other fragile logic
and will convert AC to low-voltage DC. A normal light switch will tolerate
quite a bit of a surge, but these switches will not be happy.

------
WalterBright
Back in the 90's, I considered going all smarthome. In the end, I didn't and
am glad.

But I did run RG6/cat5 to every room in a star configuration. I had little use
for it at the time, but have grown into it, and that turned out to be a
worthwhile investment.

Wifi has gotten much better over the years, but wired connections still work
better. For example, my Grace Digital media player is incredibly flaky with
wifi, but works like a champ when wired (read the Amazon reviews on it). I
bought it knowing it needed to be wired, and it was no problem for my setup.

The lights are all conventional, and just work. The dimmer switches regularly
fail, but they're cheap to replace with units from any hardware store.

------
fiatjaf
Aren't these things going to break and you end up doing maintenance every
couple of months in a useless turns-your-lights-off-for-you system?

~~~
detaro
One reason to do DIY home automation with stuff from the industrial automation
world, at least for the core components. Parts made to run decades in a
factory will survive.

------
more_corn
Because "please wait while your lightbulbs perform a firmware update" Because
you can't secure that shi... stuff? Because why? Because when I need an
internet connected toaster I will give up on tech, on life, on humanity.
Because the last thing we all need in our homes is more technological
annoyance.

------
coin
Horrible scrolling experience, zoom on mobile devices is also disabled

------
j45
The real regret here seems to be overpaying for technology in the home when
it's evolving quickly and the price is coming down, and not knowing it was
preventable.

There are fantastic ways to have a flexible, affordable, and manageable
automated home. Fittingly, it's not guaranteed because of a brand name.

The evolution of the smart home is never going to end, and single platform
smart home owners are only starting to realize they are screwed. Any
investment is relatively outdated quickly and the strategy to manage the tech
through the life of their home is a pain compared to say a furnace, hot water,
etc.

I got Insteon 6 years ago when it was the most capable & economical, and now
want to mix and match components. It's totally possible as long as you have a
vision of how you want your life to improve from the tech, and not installing
home automation for its' own sake. Often I'll add a few pieces at a time after
thinking it over. Maybe not for everyone.

Where home automation is headed is who can mix and match old and new
generation equipment together into one cohesive experience.

Apple Home, Google, etc can keep trying to add to the mess of adding more
platforms instead of connecting them. There is no one platform that can, or
will hit every need, type of living and price point, so this mess will keep
getting worse.

On the other hand, tech will keep getting cheaper, more capable and simpler to
use, and more importantly, configure.

The reality I'm arriving at is homes will need one (truly) universal
hub/appliance that is platform and equipment agnostic, like a furnace, or
water tank, except to run anything you may want in the home. Add to that one
universal software that works on any platform that comes out, and can tie to
any standard. There's some good in-roads being made on this front and it's
exciting to finally see. Even things like Harmony Hub are very encouraging.

The kicker? It needs to get orders of magnitude easier than what's out there
for the average person. Since I'm not about mass adoption of premature
technology a gap (and opportunity) will remain for a few years yet. Some of
the latest entry level home tech is getting better, but it simply does not do
the type of integration that true home automation allows, and in my
estimation, is the benefit.

Now that we've had a taste of how tech could make our homes easier and more
enjoyable to live in, our needs and desires may be outgrowing what's
available. Hope someone comes along and pushes the industry forward quickly
instead of iterating through products slowly.

~~~
applecrazy
I agree with your thoughts about HomeKit and Google Home. I also can't help
but include the relevant XKCD: [http://xkcd.com/927/](http://xkcd.com/927/).

------
homero
Yah I figured this out quickly. The only things I use are a dumb but Wi-Fi
thermostat and wemos for a couple automated lights.

