
Bottle: A Bitcoin SV Browser - christopherbalz
https://bottle.bitdb.network/
======
phaser
Please note this is hosted on the BitcoinSV (BSV) network, which is not the
same as the Bitcoin network that we all know as BTC.

BitcoinSV has much bigger blocks than Bitcoin, which is probably why this idea
is possible.

While the same idea could be applied for the original Bitcoin network, that is
far more popular, it would be highly impractical as blocks are smaller and
transaction costs are higher.

I don't want to start another big/small blocks debate but if this idea gets
popular, I doubt there will be many nodes that want to host the insane amount
of data that will be accumulated, and the incentives for hosting a full node
cost-effectively is the main reason why Bitcoin blocks are small.

I also sense a malicious intention with the website not making any reference
to the fact that this is not the BTC network that 99.9% of visitors associate
with the word Bitcoin.

~~~
truantbuick
This post is running around BSV-associated social media outlets. [1] [2]

BSV is a project almost entirely propped up by a billionaire gambling tycoon
named Calvin Ayre who is promoting a known con-artist named Craig Wright [3]
as the inventor of Bitcoin. They promote BitcoinSV, which came into existence
last November as the "One True Bitcoin". They are invested in massive astro-
turfing for publicity and to lend themselves perceived legitimacy.

[1]
[https://twitter.com/_unwriter/status/1143599992667590656](https://twitter.com/_unwriter/status/1143599992667590656)

[2]
[https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoincashSV/comments/c5eg27/its_t...](https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoincashSV/comments/c5eg27/its_time_for_bsv_supporters_to_move_out_of_the/)

[3] [https://craigwright.online/](https://craigwright.online/)

~~~
nyolfen
the twitter you link is the developer

------
apo
Highly misleading. This runs on an alternative network called Bitcoin SV. It's
most definitely not Bitcoin, but a fork of a fork of a fork.

Amusing really, because the "SV" stands for Satoshi's vision. The founder,
Craig Wright has been bamboozling people for a long time with his nonsense.

It's so long ago that most have forgotten, but the real Satoshi weighed in on
a pretty heated argument about whether the Bitcoin block chain should be used
to store DNS records. Satoshi was against it due to scaling concerns.

The project went on to create its own network and blockchain called Namecoin.

[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1790.msg28917#msg289...](https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1790.msg28917#msg28917)

I would take this project in the same spirit. Someone created a block chain
and network for mass data storage. At least that's the goal. The result is
what you see, but it's not Bitcoin.

~~~
shilch
It uses "Bitcoin" to refer to the protocol, not the BTC network. People fought
about the name "Bitcoin" for ages and everybody has their own opinion about
this topic. The network that you refer to as Bitcoin has forked several times
as well and least resembles the original protocol and idea when compared to
BCH or BSV. OTOH the market values it the highest.

> Someone created a block chain and network for mass data storage.

I don't like the phrase of storing data on the chain. The blockchain is not a
storage medium but a network that incentivised connectivity and data
propagation.

~~~
kinghajj
Except for an early hard fork due to a transaction verification bug that
allowed for infinite Bitcoins to be created, the main Bitcoin chain, as
implemented by the Bitcoin Core client, has never forked, to my knowledge. It
also seems disingenuous to claim that it doesn't resemble the original
protocol, when the block size cap that the forks adjust, was put into place by
Satoshi himself.

~~~
onion-soup
Bitcoin core altered the protocol by removing instant transactions and adding
segwit. So it’s not bitcoin anymore

~~~
kinghajj
"Removing instant transactions?" Do you mean "the GUI shows 0-conf
transactions as pending?" And why does adding Segwit make it "not bitcoin
anymore"? Further, the Bitcoin Core devs didn't alter the protocol, the miners
and users did by using the voting mechanism to enable Segwit, entirely of
their own volition.

~~~
shilch
> Do you mean "the GUI shows 0-conf transactions as pending?

It's not just GUI but also a miner policy which can break the use of BTC as
cash - as it was originally intended.

> And why does adding Segwit make it "not bitcoin anymore"?

It's an ugly addition to the original protocol that among others breaks the
definition of a coin as a chain of digital signatures. This might lead to
legal issues as some people (including lawyers) pointed out.

------
seisvelas
This is ridiculously cool. Something in me burns to brush this off, which kind
of annoys me. I wasn't aware of how affected I've been by the current wave of
anti bitcoin/blockchain/deep learning reaction. It's sad because ultimately,
that kind of sentiment just limits the ability to appreciate really awesome
stuff that people make, like this.

I madly respect the creator of Bottle for wasting your time on something
wondrous and original.

------
anchpop
If you're interested in this sort of idea, you might be interested in beaker
browser [0] (I'm not affiliated in any way). It is essentially a way to browse
files hosted on a bittorrent-like api, so anyone can seed a website to keep it
up. I think it's still a work in progress though and has a lot of features
left to add.

[0]: [https://beakerbrowser.com/](https://beakerbrowser.com/)

~~~
pfraze
We're working on our next release. I tweet about it (@pfrazee) and do weekly
streams on sundays (twitch/pfrazee).

------
dang
Commenters have objected that this is BitcoinSV rather than Bitcoin, so I put
SV in the title above. I don't actually know what that means, so let me know
if I got something wrong.

~~~
shilch
It uses the Bitcoin protocol and operates on the Bitcoin SV network (notice
the space) by default.

~~~
dang
Ok, have a space. Anything else?

~~~
verroq
Looks like a lot of new accounts astroturfing this submission?

They are coming from here:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoincashSV/comments/c5eg27/its_t...](https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoincashSV/comments/c5eg27/its_time_for_bsv_supporters_to_move_out_of_the/)

~~~
ghostpepper
Interesting that some of the top comments on that reddit thread seem to at
least be encouraging commenters to follow the etiquette here... polite
astroturfing is better than impolite maybe?

> There’s a much different tone of discourse there, so be sure to leave your
> ad hominems and hero worship behind.

------
ge96
Kind of interesting, would like to have a map of the known links/what is it at
a basic overview level at least eg. file, site, image, etc...

Only concern to me is that "lack of distributors" if you compare against
public web so what do you put in here? That depends though, someone has to
host, you(pay bills), or big company that has free hosting like a forum.

~~~
djbits
You are browsing stuff that is hosted on Bitcoin

Check this out: [https://c.bitdb.network/](https://c.bitdb.network/)

~~~
djbits
And this: [https://b.bitdb.network/](https://b.bitdb.network/)

------
Solvitieg
If we are posting data to the Bitcoin blockchain, does this data live
alongside transaction data? And if so, are there fees to host this data (as we
need to pay miners to include data in a block)?

~~~
onion-soup
Yes. It lives as a transaction output under op code 'OP_RETURN'.

See example of weather data stored on chain
[https://whatsonchain.com/tx/6dac238576e9778458bb62a2f7d936fd...](https://whatsonchain.com/tx/6dac238576e9778458bb62a2f7d936fde1f258a31bbeb2c20084232589d8d915)

>are there fees to host this data (as we need to pay miners to include data in
a block)?

Yes, current fees are about 1 sat/byte.

This is really a write once, read many type of system.

~~~
looeee
> 1 sat/byte

What's a sat?

~~~
Roujo
Presumably a Satoshi, the nickname given to the current smallest fraction of a
bitcoin that is recorded on the block chain - 0.00000001 BTC.

[https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Satoshi_(unit)](https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Satoshi_\(unit\))

------
arisAlexis
people need to pay attention to a detail. BitcoinSV is not Bitcoin as people
know it and it is misleading. This is a super cool project but being clear
should be a priority in something that has the theme of trust and
decentralisation

~~~
onion-soup
Wrong. Bitcoin SV follows the whitepaper the most

~~~
ghostpepper
The OP's comment was that bitcoin SV is not the bitcoin that most people know
as bitcoin, which is true: of all the people who even know what bitcoin is,
99% of them think of BTC as bitcoin.

OP said nothing about how closely it follows the whitepaper.

------
grahamperich
VERY cool. It reminds me a bit of this project, which has some of the same
concepts and uses the Ethereum blockchain:
[https://ethsites.io/](https://ethsites.io/)

ethsites TLDR: host unstoppable censorship resistance websites that can be
accessed anywhere in the world (as long as you can remember a small JS snippet
or print it on a tshirt or something)

------
thekyle
It's a neat idea. Although, I'm skeptical of its practicality for hosting any
serious amount of data.

If everything is hosted on the Bitcoin blockchain then every node in the
Bitcoin network will need to keep a copy of every file uploaded. I would
prefer the DHT model used by IPFS and DAT where each node only hosts part of
the network.

~~~
voodoosurfer
OP_RETURN data can be pruned, actually. Miners/node owners can decide for
themselves if they want to keep the data; eventually a market will emerge for
such a service, but for now the blockchain is small enough that it's not a
problem.

~~~
ismatopius
In most cases, you don't even need a pruned node.
[https://github.com/interplanaria/bitbus](https://github.com/interplanaria/bitbus)

------
Gwolfe
READ THIS: [https://medium.com/@_unwriter/the-resolution-of-the-
bitcoin-...](https://medium.com/@_unwriter/the-resolution-of-the-bitcoin-cash-
experiment-52b86d8cd187)

[https://neon.planaria.network/#/](https://neon.planaria.network/#/)
[https://twitter.com/_unwriter?lang=en](https://twitter.com/_unwriter?lang=en)

------
djbits
Nasdaq just released interview about Bitcoin SV (BSV) if you want to learn
more about basic concept of original Bitcoin and what it does:
[https://twitter.com/TradeTalks/status/1143588281340137473](https://twitter.com/TradeTalks/status/1143588281340137473)

------
jacobroyquebec
>And because it's on the blockchain, ownership is provable, the content is
permanent, and it can be directly monetized forever.

How can content be monetized foreved if it costs something to upload (send a
transaction to create the block) but nothing to browser (navigating through
the blockchain costs nothing)?

~~~
ismatopius
The author of the content can be tipped, because he can access the address
used for posting. Also, content can be encrypted and decryption, after
payment, can be automated.

~~~
jacobroyquebec
Thanks, makes sense now!

------
MuffinFlavored
> Unlike the cloud based Internet where it's easy to get away with uploading
> illegal content, Blockchain remembers forever, and because the content will
> stay on the blockchain forever with your signature, you don't even have the
> deniability when you get caught.

How could you be traced if you are on an anonymous network and create an
anonymous one-time-use wallet?

~~~
jurassic12
On-off ramps aka exchanges , kyc , unless you mine your bitcoins in a very
secret way

------
deepwaterz
Have a look at [https://medium.com/@_unwriter/the-metanet-
starts-84f255a6578...](https://medium.com/@_unwriter/the-metanet-
starts-84f255a65782)

This is awesome.

------
Zack-sgu
Interesting concept. Looks like it would be possible to add analytics /
monitoring to the request transformer to track content access though. Wonder
if it would be possible to open that up?

------
slang800
Who decided that b:// and c:// should represent Bitcoin-stored files? I can't
imagine that this is standardized by the IETF or IANA.

~~~
mrsnuffy
It's not. They will evolve. Anyone can make up protocols like that right now.

------
droth
Wow. This is truly phenomenal. I thought Bitcoin was a worthless ponzi scheme.
Really looking forward to seeing Bitcoin SV progress.

~~~
jurassic12
BTC has turnen unfortunately in a ponzi. the minining rewards on the next
halving might kill it. Lets hope people are aware of this.

------
djbits
the reason bottle is build on top of Bitcoin SV is simple, because it scales
and it's true to original design by Satoshi him self.

Read Bitcoin whitepaper
[https://bitcoinsv.io/bitcoin](https://bitcoinsv.io/bitcoin)

------
ujal
Are there similar projects for the Ethereum blockchain? Imagine a censorship
resistant Darknet.

~~~
voodoosurfer
Ethereum really isn't great for stuff like this. Check this article:

[https://www.yours.org/content/blockchain-computing-on-
ethere...](https://www.yours.org/content/blockchain-computing-on-ethereum-and-
bitcoin-sv-57371d4d5297/)

------
dead_mall
This is awesome, but it's a real shame that it's not for the Bitcoin network

------
solotronics
So freaking cool but also worrysome for my transaction fees! AWESOME!

~~~
CraigIsSatoshi
Since this is on the Bitcoin SV network, fees are tiny and the blocks are
large. This enables all sorts of use cases for bitcoin, as the creator
intended.

------
cocktailpeanuts
interesting... so all this is stored on the blockchain?

~~~
mathiasrw
Yes

~~~
n00bdude
So how does one go about uploading, say, a PDF for someone to access with the
browser?

Very cool btw

~~~
onion-soup
You can upload it using, say
[https://add.bico.media/](https://add.bico.media/).

Then you just share the transaction ID or sha256 hash of the pdf file to
recepient.

Recepient can access that file as long as blockchain exists (basically
forever).

And all this is achieved by OP_RETURN, a special op_code in bitcoin script
that allows you to return data to blockchain.

~~~
jacobroyquebec
Except that the link you suggest is for BSV, a bastard fork of bitcoin that
tries to lure newcomers.

~~~
brianorwhatever
adjective: bastard

    
    
        1. (of a thing) no longer in its pure or original form; debased.
    

The idea behind this fork is that it is bitcoin IN it's original form

------
mrz1818
Built on BitcoinSV!

~~~
easymovet
Who will be able to run a full node if it’s full of media content?

~~~
onion-soup
Data centers.

~~~
Macross8299
Doesn't that run contrary to the idea of Bitcoin being decentralized?

~~~
onion-soup
When there are at least 3 independent data centers, it is already
decentralized

------
kingmr012
It actually goes way beyond what y'all are just discovering
[https://metanaria.planaria.network/](https://metanaria.planaria.network/)

~~~
yosteveo
The rabbit hole goes much much much much deeper.

------
qz_
Certainly an interesting idea, but I think you're raising the barrier to entry
by not simply implementing this as a browser extension. By having to develop a
completely separate browser you're wasting a lot of time and resources that
could otherwise be used to achieve the goals of the project.

I also seriously doubt the willingness of most people to install yet another
battery-guzzling Electron app.

~~~
volaski
According to the website:

Why a standalone browser instead of building as an extension for existing
browsers, or waiting for mainstream browser support?

1\. Build for the future

Many things we take for granted in the old "web browsing" experience--
including the security model--no longer apply in the new world of Bitcoin.

The thing is, Bitcoin is NOT "the next web". In many ways it's completely
opposite of what the WWW is, which is why Bitcoin is so powerful.

That's why it's more beneficial to start from scratch instead of forking an
existing full-fledged browser built for the existing WWW, with many legacy
features that can constrain future directions. We can create a new user
interaction model optimized for the new Bitcoin world order.

2\. Bitcoin-Native

Bitcoin has a fundamentally different architecture than the old web in many
different ways, with built-in immutability, a self-contained authentication
model, and natively monetizable/traceable files.

Instead of thinking from the old WWW mindset, we should think from a Bitcoin-
native mindset.

Bottle can discipline us to publish Bitcoin-first documents, build Bitcoin-
first apps, each interconnected to one another in Bitcoin-native ways.

