
Drought Has Revealed Spain's Long-Submerged 'Stonehenge' - prostoalex
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/spanish-stonehenge-drought
======
trhway
"7,000-year-old Dolmen of Guadalperal"

"While the Dolmen of Guadalperal has widely been compared to Stonehenge—and
rightly so—the Spanish example was once an entirely enclosed space. And it
could also be around 2,000 years older."

kind of dovetails to [https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-
britain/celts-des...](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-
britain/celts-descended-from-spanish-fishermen-study-finds-416727.html)

" A team from Oxford University has discovered that the Celts, Britain's
indigenous people, are descended from a tribe of Iberian fishermen who crossed
the Bay of Biscay 6,000 years ago."

~~~
mikhailfranco
Of course you contradict yourself, the Celts cannot be Britain's indigenous
people according to the article itself.

There were movements of people, and movements of culture, which could be
separate, but Celts are late Indo-European arrivals to the British Isles,
either directly from the Celtic heartland in Germany, or indirectly along the
western coasts from Spain.

The Celts just happened to be the culture in place when the first accounts
were written by the Greeks and Romans. So they have self-appointed themselves
to be poor down-trodden invaded brutalized indigenous people - but they were
just the previous wave of ruthless invaders!

There were people in the British Isles 10s and 100s of thousands of years ago.
Britain was wiped clean by ice ages and repopulated. Britain was connected to
Europe by a land bridge, _etc. etc._ All this long before the Celts turned up.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Britain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Britain)

There is no Celtic presence in Britain before about 500 BC. Stonehenge and
Guadalperal are much, much too old to have been built by the Celts. _Celtic
druids did not build Stonehenge._

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts)

------
dr_dshiv
I wish more people saw how fragile our grasp on the past is -- and how much we
still don't understand about our emergence at a basic, basic level...

~~~
ianai
I wish society as a whole had a better memory. Even events from 4 years ago
are lost easily from the collective mindset.

~~~
oh_sigh
Can you give an example of an important event in 2015 that has been lost in
the collective consciousness?

~~~
Cthulhu_
Disclaimer: I cheated by googling, but that's the point - I forgot about these
events because they were no longer in the collective consciousness.

Charlie Hebdo attack in Paris - dunno what happened with this. Overshadowed
by: Paris terrorist attack on stadium and club - 130 people died Charleston
Church shooting - Replaced by more shootings that happened afterwards (in that
year alone: Roseburg, Lafayette, Chattanooga, Planned Parenthood, San
Bernardino). Thoughts, prayers, and calls for gun control even if neither of
those fix the underlying issues. European Refugee crisis - Agreements with
Turkey and Libya have turned this 'crisis' around, but, more boats are
arriving in Greece lately.

Just a few examples I blatantly copied off of a website. Nobody talks about
these things anymore because Trump used a sharpie.

~~~
ianai
US presidential history is seemingly rich of examples. Not holding myself to
the 4 year framing:

All the accusations Bush 43 made against the democrats for being Russian-
leaning communists contradicts today’s politics badly.

The stimulus checks to stabilize the economy during descent into the Great
Recession.

The interruption of Pres Obamas first state of the union. Just how abnormal
that was seems to have simultaneously led to today’s lack of governmental
progress and yet been not just forgiven but embraced and promulgated.

~~~
WaltPurvis
> _All the accusations Bush 43 made against the democrats for being Russian-
> leaning communists_

I don't recall Bush 43 accusing Democrats of being "Russian-leaning
communists" even one single time, let alone so often you could talk about
"all" the times he did it. I loathed nearly everything about Bush 43 and his
administration, but can you cite an example or two (more would be better)
where this actually happened?

I don't know if it's my memory that's faulty or yours, but you're the one
lamenting our poor memory of recent events and I don't believe these
particular recent events even happened.

~~~
ianai
I think it was during press briefings. Particularly when he would discuss the
previous administration or working “across the isle.”

~~~
derp_dee_derp
how about linking to a cspan recording, or an archived news article, or
perhaps even the presidential archives and actually providing evidence instead
of just more anecdotes that you "think" happened.

~~~
strgcmc
Here is an NPR article [1] summarizing US-Russia relations during the GWB era,
and describing GWB's attacks during his first campaign, on Bill Clinton for
being too chummy with Russia... I think it would be fair to say this
represented a general feeling on the right (around the early 2000s), that
Democrats under Clinton had been too friendly with Russia (since GWB was able
to make this into a campaign issue):

> At the time, George W. Bush was campaigning for the presidency, lambasting
> President Clinton's chummy relationship with Russian President Boris
> Yeltsin. Bush promised to end personal favoritism and protect American
> national security. Taking office the following year, he began by expelling
> 50 Russian diplomats from Washington for alleged spying. Defense Secretary
> Donald Rumsfeld snubbed the Russian defense minister soon after by refusing
> to meet him on the sidelines of a NATO conference.

[1]
[https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=114736...](https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=11473661)

------
newsreview1
Obermier, who discovered and preserved this site did fantastic work at the the
cave of Altamira in the 1920's. He deserves more credit. His work at the
Dolmen of Guadalperal wasn't even known about until 40 years later.

------
kuu
We (Spain) have a similar story but with a more recent church:

[https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/sant-roma-de-
sau](https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/sant-roma-de-sau)

~~~
mmsimanga
In the Western Cape in South Africa ours is not quite as dramatic but grape
vines from farm that was active 35 years ago became visible during the recent
drought. The vines and farm usually submerged.

[https://www.traveller24.com/Explore/watch-ghostly-
vineyard-h...](https://www.traveller24.com/Explore/watch-ghostly-vineyard-
hidden-beneath-the-theewaterskloof-dam-20170603)

------
dalbasal
Wow!

I have to say, I am totally with the zeitgeist in terms of recent interest in
the early neolithic and late paleolithic. These are fascinating to me. It's
particularly fascinating how widespread (both time and place) the motifs are,
structural and functional/symbolic. Celestial-solar calendars. There are
similarities to British henges and Irish granges. I'm sure there are (the

BTB...Are they really going to re-submerge this site (or move it)?!! It seems
insane.

~~~
hutzlibu
I didn't know the interest in neolithic is also a Zeitgeist phenomen. I mean,
I am interested and my circle of people, but is it really more widespread?

~~~
dalbasal
..maybe not lady gaga level zeitgeist.. nonfiction book sales and such.

~~~
hutzlibu
Do you maybe have some recommendations about good books on the topic?

(english or german)

------
seax
It's really a shame that we are destroying or have destroyed so many sites
like these for (relatively) short sighted dam building.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Pretty much any place you build in Europe, you would have to disturb a
historical site. We can abandon the earth to its past, or move on. As
population grows, we don't have much choice?

------
DoctorOetker
they look like the proposals for ominous landmarks of radioactive waste burial
sites, which makes zero sense of course!

~~~
Cthulhu_
Yeah I've seen numerous links to that pointed to from HN over time. The
problem with all of those proposals is that to an ignorant archeologist from,
say, a hundred years ago, any visible sign, warning or construction will only
pique the curiosity. I mean Tutankhamun's tomb had plenty of warnings
inscribed on it, but they were dismissed as silly curses and there's no such
thing as curses. The same will happen with nuclear storage sites that are
'protected' like that.

Better to put it away very deep, where erosion and tectonic shifts won't
expose it for a million years and just forget about it. I read something about
putting it in deep boreholes the other day.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
There was a discussion of how to permanently (100.000 years or more) mark a
dangerous site. Creative solutions abounded. I like the one where it kills you
quickly, so it stays obvious that the site is dangerous. Better than killing
thousands slowly over many years!

