
HP Chromebook 11 Review - amardeep
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7418/hp-chromebook-11-review
======
rayiner
The dreadful battery life is interesting:

"Despite using relatively power efficient hardware and being paired with a
30Wh internal battery, the Chromebook 11 barely lasted 5.4 hours in our web
browsing battery life test. Local video playback was even worse at 4.8 hours."

The "web browsing battery life test" in this article is the same one as in
here: [http://www.anandtech.com/show/7117/haswell-ult-
investigation](http://www.anandtech.com/show/7117/haswell-ult-investigation).
Note how the iPad 4 gets 9.48 hours on both tests. On that test, the 11" MBA
gets over 11 hours, despite having less than a 25% larger battery and using
Core i5 processors. The 13" MBA gets over 14 hours, though it has an 80%
larger battery (but has to drive a 30% larger screen).

This suggests that Samsung's Exynos 5 is extremely power-hungry or Chrome OS's
power optimization is extremely bad.

As an aside, Apple/Intel's phenomenal battery life performance with the latest
MBA signals to me the beginning of the end for ARM. If we're getting to the
point where a current-generation Haswell laptop CPU is putting up light
workload power draw comparable to a flagship A15 tablet chip, that's not a
positive thing for ARM. Heck, even if you just compare the iPad 4 with the MBA
11", the writing seems to be on the wall. The iPad has a substantially bigger
battery than the MBA, while driving a smaller (albeit more pixel-dense and
power hungry) screen. And yet the MBA totally holds its own on the battery
life test.

~~~
blinkingled
The 13" Air has a 54Wh battery compared to the almost half capacity 30Wh
battery of the ChromeBook. So that's almost half the battery life on almost
half the battery capacity. Not exactly dreadful but could get better.

With Haswell Intel got the power draw at idle down to a very good level. So
the major power sucker is still the screen. But given the Chromebook has a
smaller screen and less powerful SoC the ChromeBook should in theory get
little better battery life than it does. That one we can chalk up to the 3.4
Linux kernel that the ChromeBook is using and OS X / Safari generally always
being ahead in power use department.

I think we'll see the battery life get better with the newer Haswell Chrome
books when Google switches to a more recent Linux kernel.

~~~
TylerE
Interesting way to twist the numbers.

To be accurate:

The Chromebook gets 38.5% of the battery life with 55.5% of the battery
capacity. That's quite a bit different than the 1:1 ratio you imply, more like
0.7:1.

Put yet another way, with the MBA13's battery, the Chromebook would last 9.7
hours. With the Chromebook's batter, the MBA would last 7.8 hours.

~~~
blinkingled
Twist? If I had implied 1:1 - why do you think I spent the next paragraph
explaining the difference? Also 0.7:1 isn't exactly dreadful - so that point
stands.

~~~
TylerE
"So that's almost half the battery life on almost half the battery capacity."

If that's not implying a 1:1 ratio I don't know what is.

~~~
blinkingled
Are the battery life tests the same between the Air and ChromeBook? The Air
review from Anandtech tests the Air for Light, Medium and Heavy Workloads
(whatever that means) in which it gets 11/8.9/5.53 hours respectively. The
ChromeBook test on the other hand is labelled "Web Browsing Battery Life"
which to me suggests that it isn't exactly the same as the one used with Air
or for that matter which one of the Light/Medium/Heavy compares closely to it.

~~~
tedunangst
Did you not read rayiner's link? There's a big graph labelled "Tablet Web
Browsing Battery Life" with the MBA in it.

~~~
blinkingled
Do you happen to know if "Tablet Web Browsing Battery Life" and "Web Browsing
Battery Life (WiFi)" are one and the same thing though? Tablets don't load
Flash. ChromeBook does by default. The tests may still be different in unknown
ways.

------
ihsw
The article touches on open-source OS alternatives and touts ChromeOS as one
of them, however its open nature is only skin deep -- the vast majority of
your activities occur within the confines of Google's ecosystem (or some other
closed-source ecosystem).

This is a _mostly_ philosophical issue due to the nature of ChromeOS
(everything is supposed to be run from the browser), however it shouldn't be
forgotten that this device isn't nearly indicative of any consumer Linux
revolution.

~~~
Touche
> The article touches on open-source OS alternatives and touts ChromeOS as one
> of them, however its open nature is only skin deep -- the vast majority of
> your activities occur within the confines of Google's ecosystem (or some
> other closed-source ecosystem).

That's up to the individual. You can exclusively use web services running on
your own servers if you so choose.

~~~
abrowne
Like run your own Google server so you can create an account and log in?

(I'll give you that after logging in you could probably exclusively use your
own services. But that's a big exception.)

~~~
Touche
The parent was talking about open source alternatives to Chrome OS, which is
Chromium OS, which doesn't require a Google account.

~~~
abrowne
Can you log in to Chromium OS without a Google account? I tried it (Hexxeh
build) before I got my Cr-48, and I don't remember being able to then, but
that was a while ago now.

------
technosmurf
I'm surprised that Anand didn't mention anything about the trackpad. The
Verge's impression is that it's pretty terrible:

 _" The trackpad, on the other hand, is pretty bad. It’s sticky and plastic,
and doesn’t allow your finger to glide smoothly at all; my fingers jittered
around as I tried to move the cursor, and the screen jittered even worse as I
tried to scroll with two fingers or pinch to zoom on the screen. It’s a
frustrating change from the smooth, responsive Chromebook Pixel, which got all
this right — and had a touchscreen too, just in case. Of course, the Pixel is
also six times the price."_

[http://www.theverge.com/2013/10/10/4822576/hp-
chromebook-11-...](http://www.theverge.com/2013/10/10/4822576/hp-
chromebook-11-review)

~~~
bryanlarsen
He did make one comment in the summary:

"and even the clickpad isn’t as bad as it is on far more expensive PCs."

Not sure what to read into that.

------
czhiddy
"Google is particularly proud of the lack of any visible vents, screws or
speakers."

"Google uses the bottom plate as a heat spreader with a bit of thermal
interface material making direct contact to the Exynos 5250 SoC."

"It used to be that you’d have to spend tons of money to get a notebook with a
good keyboard, Google seems devoted to fixing that."

Interesting how a search for "HP" results in almost no hits in the article
text. The quotes above suggest that Google designed the device and HP was
nothing more than a dumb OEM. While they've certainly stumbled big time in
recent years, I'd still expect their hardware design / manufacturing knowledge
to dwarf Google's.

~~~
netcan
I agree on paper. That said, most google-ish hardware has been up to a pretty
decent standard. Their brand on a piece of hardware means more to me than
HP's.

------
cjbprime
This is going to sound like one of those self-entitled tech employee tweets,
but I wish there was a button I could push that would just remove mention of
laptops with less than 1920x1080 resolution from my view of the internet.

~~~
netcan
To me, there are two interesting ends of the spectrum. The high end (eg new
MBPr) and the low end.

Those are where the future comes from.

------
6ren
This HP Chromebook 11 seems very similar to the Samsung Chromebook in specs.
Both use Exynos 5250, 11" screen etc.

The Acer C7 Chromebook (Celeron) was much better performing. Running some
javascript graphics, it seemed at least twice as fast to me. But it weighed
50% more (~1.5kg).

However, the new Acer C720 Chromebook is down to ~1kg, and it's even faster,
using a Haswell CPU (22nm).
[http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/10/acers-c720-chromebook...](http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/10/acers-c720-chromebook-
launched-thinner-longer-lasting-and-haswell/) And google claims 8.5 hours
[http://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/devices/chromebooks.htm...](http://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/devices/chromebooks.html#ac-c720)
(cf 6 hours claimed for the HP Chromebook 11.)

~~~
jemeshsu
Acer C720 at $249: 11.6" matte 1366×768 screen, 16GB SSD, 4GB RAM, dual-band
802.11n, Haswell-based Celeron 2955U 1.4GHz dual-core CPU.

HP Chromebook 11 at $279: 11.6" IPS 1366 x 768, Samsung Exynos 5250 dual-core
Cortex A15 1.7GHz + ARM Mali-T604 GPU, dual-band 802.11n, 2GB DDR3 RAM, 16GB
SSD.

Acer chromebook is more attractive by spec.

------
tmzt
I'm really confused by the battery life. My Samsung ARM Chromebook last a
really long time with only intermittent charging at home. It's also perfectly
usable for SSH access to my dedicated server and works well on wifi with my
phone and hotspot. I would hope that Google is improving battery life on their
flagship devices, not reducing it, perception is everything. I also hope that
they keep an ARM model and don't let Intel's marketing dollars overwhelm their
partners, while not delivering a comparable battery life experience. I look
forward to replacing this with a quad-core processor with AArch64 support, and
hopefully KVM.

------
GoofballJones
I'm intrigued by using Chrome OS, but the choices of Chromebooks is pretty
sparse. You either have the ultra-high-end of the Chromebook Pixel that costs
as much as a Macbook Air 13", or you have the ultra cheap and cheap-feeling
low end.

Why can't we get a mid-range one, with a decent keyboard, decent IPS screen
(doesn't have to be touch-screen), long battery life with Haswell chip and USB
3. Yes yes...we can just buy a laptop and run Chrome on it, but it's not the
same. No ultra-fast boot-ups, no security inherent in Chrome OS itself etc.

~~~
r00fus
I imagine if Google weren't effectively subsidizing ChromeOS machines (by not
charging for ChromeOS, and instead hoping you'll spend more time on their web
properties and ads), most of these machines would cost a bit more.

All the things you mentioned cost money. There are psychological barriers
(marketing speak: price points) where people make different decisions.

For example, $500 is a magic point where something stops being either
affordable/inexpensive/casual expense (depending on your financial situation)
and becomes unaffordable/expensive/notable.

~~~
tomkarlo
The average price for a Windows 8 laptop last Q4 was ~$430... so at $280
they're about $150 under that. I suspect that if you start getting close to
that $430 mark you lose some of the willingness of consumers to try something
other than Windows.

------
kunai
HP really killed it with this notebook, but I can't help think that it would
be even better with Bay Trail. Running crouton w/ Gnome 3 on native x86 when I
need it and Chrome OS when I don't is extremely appealing to me as a Linux
user and developer.

------
pearjuice
I find a lack of Ethernet port slightly if not very disturbing. For a device
which requires an internet connection most if not all of the time, why is the
only connectivity module wireless access?

~~~
LordIllidan
I hope it's not indicative of a trend among laptop manufacturers. Apple
removed Ethernet ports from their MacBook Pro Retina, ostensibly to reduce
form factor, but also rendering it useless if you're in a place without good
wifi,and only ethernet - exactly like my current workplace.

The chromebook really doesn't appeal to me as a concept. The only attractive
thing I find about them is their cheap price and the fact that they tend to
have good quality hardware for that price.

~~~
bluedino
I could see missing the ethernet port on a MacBook Pro - it wouldn't be
unusual to pull files from the LAN that are 100's of MB in size.

But you're not going to do that on a Chromeboook.

~~~
jlgreco
Google throws in 3 free years of 1TB storage on Google Drive with every
Chromebook Pixel. There must be a reason they think people need that much
online storage.

------
davidgerard
I used to live on my Dell Mini 9, until it died of crappy netbook hardware
(now I use a work Toshiba I've also beaten the crap out of). How easy are
these things to Xubuntu?

~~~
kunai
You don't need to install Xubuntu; you just run XFCE on top of Ubuntu in a
chroot environment with crouton and you have a full Linux desktop at your
fingertips.

~~~
pearjuice
So no _real_ Linux? As in on a direct HD partition without chroot?

~~~
kunai
You can baremetal a full Ubuntu install, but chroot is easier and lets you
preserve some niceties of Chrome OS (fastboot, easy interface when you don't
need full Linux, etc...).

It's preference. If you want to run Linux straight, you can install Chrubuntu
in a pinch, but crouton is much easier.

~~~
pearjuice
I find the limitation of Ubuntu very uncomfortable. With most computers you
can boot an ISO of any OS without major hassle but those Chromebooks really
limit your movement span.

------
hengheng
So it's an entry level computer, probably not targeted towards us but more an
e-mail and google machine for our grandparents. Which is fine.

Serious question though: Can it print?

~~~
jimsilverman
yes. Google Cloud Print:
[http://www.google.com/cloudprint/learn/](http://www.google.com/cloudprint/learn/)

~~~
reledi
For me, something like Google Cloud Print is awesome. For my mom, it doesn't
cut it. She bought the $250 Chromebook and is constantly complaining that she
can't print her documents and wants to get a new laptop. She doesn't want to
purchase a cloud-ready printer because she already owns a printer, and she
doesn't have another computer to leave on and connected to her printer (which
is the alternative).

~~~
venomsnake
Hmm ... seems like raspberry pi can make a lot of sense in that case. You put
the printer behind it. Is it possible?

~~~
reledi
Great idea! Turns out it's possible: [http://www.howtogeek.com/169566/how-to-
turn-a-raspberry-pi-i...](http://www.howtogeek.com/169566/how-to-turn-a-
raspberry-pi-into-a-google-cloud-print-server/)

------
netcan
Google's done a good job here, obviously. This seems like a remarkably solid
piece of hardware, especially at <$300 from a software company. These things
are selling. but..

..Right now, if you launch a revolutionizing gadget category its hard not to
get compared and contrasted to Apple. There some hard to define (but I'll try)
things that Apple is good at in a way that so few companies are.

Apple are _so_ much better at "concepts." Take "apps" as an example. An App is
a very clearly defined thing in iOS land. It comes from the app store. It
lives on your homescreen. You load data into it via itunes (this part is kinda
sucky). When you click it, it's open. When you close it it's closed. There are
no shortcuts and no invisible system apps that don't have an icon. The icon
_is_ the app. You remove it and the app is gone. If you see two icons, you
have two apps. Solid concept (metaphor, whatever). Apple are absolutely anal
about this. They will forgo functionality in order to protect the concept.
Android/Google, are willing to break the app concept in order to add
functionality. That means your new music app can play your music and it can
have a nifty widget. It also mean that your Aunt can no longer tell you what
apps she has. Pros and Cons.

Chrome, is built from an assumption that a web browser in a box will be all
you need by 2013. Turns out it's not. Some things are easier or nicer to do in
an app. More importantly, allowing users to install apps doesn't necessarily
mean toolbar-mallware-windows chaos on Aunt Jennie's computer. Now that iOS
and Android solved that problem, not allowing apps seem silly and restrictive,
even for Aunt Jennie. Problem. Luckily Google is not Apple and they can bend
the chrome concept (it's a browser).

 _" You can finally run applications offline and outside of a browser window..
.. list of offline applications is woefully short at this point"_

So anyway, apps. What is a Chrome OS app? Is it a website that uses some
chrome OS extra goodies? Is it just a shortcut to a websapp?

I google Chrome OS app to see this _woefully short list._ I get here:
[https://www.google.ie/intl/en/chrome/webstore/apps-
gtd.html](https://www.google.ie/intl/en/chrome/webstore/apps-gtd.html).

" _Chrome Apps For Your Desktop_ "

My OSX desktop?.. inside the chrome browser? is my Chromebook my desktop?

click around - LAUNCH YOUR APPS : _" Chrome Apps have a new Home"_ \- picture
of a chromebook. Looks promising. Most of the other links seem to be for
Chrome-the-browser though. A few for chrome-the-thing-that-plugs-into-your-TV-
I-think.

 _" You will need Google Chrome to install most apps"_

WTF is "Chrome" anyway? Here's a confusing concept. It feels more like a
department than a product line. How is a Chromecast app related to a
Chromebook app or a Chrome OS app? What does it have to do with the play
store? How do I find out if there is a Chrome OS viber app? What do I google?

Another place where Apple is clean is use cases. If you look at magazine-
brochures for computer stores the Dells, Acers & Lentos are inconveniently
categorized into "recommended for" groups or somesuch. Recommended for email,
students, games. The computers don't cooperate and I can imagine the
conversation before printing these things. "Just Say it's like the Acer aspire
V3-551 but AMD." Apple's line up categorizes itself.

A chromebook is a good 'secondary' machine. It's also *almost" everything Aunt
Genie needs (she needs Skype and the kobo bookstore) which is great. She can
get an Acer for Skype and the kobo bookstore. It isn't a hub. So if you want
to download stuff from my camera and put it on your iphone, it's a tricky
situation.

I suspect that if Apple are considering entering into this market with an iOS
powered netbook or similar, they are wrestling with the question of where this
fits. Is it a hub that can replace OSX for some people or is it a secondary
device that expects you to have a hub someplace else. iOS devices are getting
more independent of their hubs, so maybe time will moot that problem.

I don't mean to single out Google. They built a great product. They are
looking to solve the problems of the 50% of home users who can't handle
windows and hate computers and will always buy the cheapest option. Apps came
out of nowhere. Most companies are just as bad at this stuff.

Marketing requires a surprising level of discipline.

~~~
onebaddude
>its hard not to get compared and contrasted to Apple.

You make some great points, especially when drawing a comparison with Apple.

However, I believe that most users purchasing these devices are coming over
from _Windows_. When you compare the ease of use of ChromeOS/Android to Apple,
it may be second-rate, but the Google systems are miles ahead of the
unintuitiveness of the Windows (95/98/XP/7) experience for the average user.

I purchased the Samsung Chromebook for my girlfriend on a whim. I was
skeptical, but it's a great device. Far less maintenance than her Windows
lappy, and far cheaper than an Apple device. That's a big niche.

~~~
netcan
I agree. Im glad ggogle are tackling this. MS has got a combination of
innovators dilemma and a core culture of serving office workers that makes it
hard fr them to output a good modern home user OS. Apple don't do cheap. So,
go google.

I just wish they learned more lessons from Apple.

------
hmart
So it's worth to buy this computer as a ssh webdev machine?

~~~
jbigelow76
Doesn't sound like it given the battery life. Except for short coding sessions
it sounds like you would be tethered to a nearby power source, and if that's
the case why not use a more full featured machine?

~~~
modarts
Seriously, i'm trying pretty hard to imagine which use cases this device makes
any sense. It seems to have a lot of the same limitations that turned
consumers away from the original "netbook" devices (underpowered, poor battery
performance, awkward form factor, etc)

~~~
tomkarlo
Having handled one, it's a lot nicer than the netbooks are. The performance is
pretty good, the form factor is much more comfortable in terms of screen size
and keyboard size, and the build quality is pretty high. While I wouldn't use
one myself (because I want Photoshop / Lightroom), it seems like a great
device as school / homework laptop for a grade schooler, for example, or the
grandparents use case.

Just want to check your email and browse some web pages with zero hassle? This
is perfect for that.

------
knodi
why would anyone want to buy a chromebook? Price point?

~~~
brohee
To give to a relative and NOT do tech support...

