
Gatwick airport trial for valet-parking robots - based2
https://www.standard.co.uk/tech/gatwick-airport-trial-for-valetparking-robots-will-cut-hassle-for-travellers-a4046406.html
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avar
> [...]and uses military-grade GPS to ferry it to a secure bay[...]

Something tells me Gatwick isn't actually in possession of the decryption key
for the US Air Force's P (precise) signal and this is just some PR person
taking it too far.

~~~
Reason077
It's a myth that civilian GPS is less precise than military. A modern, dual-
frequency or augmented civilian GPS receiver is just as precise as a military
GPS.

P may have once stood for precise, but now days the main advantage of the
encrypted, military P signal is that it prevents spoofing attacks.

~~~
black-tea
It used to be true but in 2000 Selective Availability was disabled which made
the civilian signal just as precise. This is basically why GPS took off around
that time despite having been in operation for two decades at that point.

~~~
eps
It's just one of many whys. Differential GPS was widely available and it gave
cm-level positioning precision.

Equally if not more important why was your good old hardware minituarization
and its cost reduction. In the late 90s a decent GPS reciever was still a size
of thick book and cost prohibitively.

~~~
black-tea
That would have been no problem in a car. But pre 2000s civilian GPS was
useless for street level navigation.

~~~
eps
No, it wasn't useless.

Again, coupled with differential corrections (available for free over radio)
the resulting precision was in centimeter range. The reason it wasn't used was
the physical size and cost (for hand-held navigation) and the lack of
supporting hardware in cars (no user-facing on-board systems with screens and
UI).

SA was _not_ the reason for the lack of consumer-level GPS adoption.

~~~
mcculley
In my experience using DGPS around 2000, most of the DGPS sources were near
the coasts and operated by the Coast Guard. There were a few scattered
transmitters here and there, certainly not enough to provide the kind of
coverage we now enjoy.

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gpm
This article desperately needs a video, here's a nearly 2 year old video from
the same company:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3hmbYLQedc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3hmbYLQedc)

~~~
cortic
Your video is the only non-animated one i can find, and really, its just of a
dolly bumping into a car, then cut to 'car being on dolly' and disappearing
out of view. All the pictures in the article seem taken from the animated
promotional stuff for stanley-robotics.com which itself seems unrealistic as
best. And even the 'already used in France' bit is misleading, as it was a
_trial_ at charles de gaulle with no information on the scale or success.

Their site looks like its there to attract investors rather than sell any kind
of real product.. i might be wrong but i don't think this is going to amount
to anything, shame.

~~~
aboutruby
Here is a non-rendered video where the lifting happens:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bocfNOjeBm8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bocfNOjeBm8)

I don't see how 2 tons are being lifted from such a low and thin surface. The
whole thing looks more like a Kickstarter than a real product.

Edit: Nope this is 100% legit

~~~
stanley_bots
same replies as above. Our robots have been receiving in our opened service
(Lyon airport) on a daily basis vehicles up to 3 tons (incl. heavy SUVs with
hybrid powertrain). Our mechanical spec. is higher though

~~~
cortic
Can't find anywhere in Lyon airport to book this service;

[https://www.lyonaeroports.com/en/parkings-airport/car-
parks-...](https://www.lyonaeroports.com/en/parkings-airport/car-parks-map)

Also they seem to use ectorparking.com at Lyon, are you affiliated with Ector?

~~~
aboutruby
Also no sign of it on Twitter, seems like people using it would likely talk
about it on social media (maybe it's a private beta for airport employees?)

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amanzi
I wonder if the movement triggers car alarms to go off?

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Animats
That's clever. But all it does is rearrange the cars in the parking lot. It
doesn't pick them up at the terminal or deliver them back there. Good first
step, though.

~~~
stanley_bots
thanks. what you say is a nice vision, level 5 of such AGVs ;) and as you say,
the prior levels are already pretty interesting (our customers, the parking
lots owners, saying) as first steps

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jdietrich
London's other major airport has a very cool autonomous rapid transit system.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4yciAxbGTg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4yciAxbGTg)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ULTra_(rapid_transit)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ULTra_\(rapid_transit\))

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Scoundreller
One benefit I can see from this:

Car owners probably drop off their car and then get valeted into a spot.

This means the car is started and ran for a few minutes before being shut down
again, draining some precious battery power that isn't recharged in time.

Repeat when the owner requests the car's return.

This may make the difference between a car that starts when its owner returns
vs not.

~~~
LeoPanthera
This seems like a non-problem. Your car battery is going to be full when you
arrive at the airport. Two extra starts isn't going to cause a problem.

~~~
chrisseaton
Apparently some modern cars with a lot of electronics do actually have a
problem keeping their battery alive for just two weeks in an airport garage!

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sowbug
These robots and electric car chargers could solve the daily game of musical
chairs in corporate parking lots. A single human attendant could handle the
"last inch" problem.

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endianswap
I assume I have to leave my car off, but in neutral with the parking brake
off? How else could they drag around an AWD/RWD car by just pushing it around
from the front?

~~~
djmobley
The vehicle isn’t pushed; all four wheels are lifted off the ground.

~~~
PhantomGremlin
That's hardly obvious from the pictures in the article.

In addition, cars have very precise jacking locations which must be used to
lift them without damage. Those bots probably don't know where to jack every
particular vehicle. Do they just jam a dolly under the wheels?

I'd give this a hard pass. It is probably just a way to separate some money
from some dumb VCs.

~~~
improbable22
One picture in the article shows that the sled has lifted the car by the
wheels. The video posted above shows this more clearly, all four wheels:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3hmbYLQedc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3hmbYLQedc)

I guess that much tighter parking is the goal, to make this pay, but it's not
clear how far they can go here -- it looks like every car can be accessed
without moving others, needing clear aisles.

Also, the column spacing in many buildings is designed around parking-bay
sizes, which will limit how much you can save in any existing building. And it
would be one hell of a 50-year bet to design a new building only for this
system.

~~~
PhantomGremlin
_The video posted above shows this more clearly, all four wheels_

The video shows _nothing_. It only shows "before" and "after", not "during".
It's totally fake. The video doesn't answer the question of how the wheels
magically get on top of the sled.

Is the body somehow jacked up to lift the car off the ground? If so, how is
this done safely? Most unibody cars can only be jacked up by lifting at very
specific points. You can't just slide a large piece of metal underneath to
lift the car. Well, you can, but you'll probably damage the car.

~~~
DanBC
It seems pretty clear. The fingers on the sled go underneath the wheels of the
car.

Watch 1:12 in the video. You can see the white-tipped prongs around the wheel

Here's a side view.

    
    
       _O_    _O_

~~~
PhantomGremlin
Come on, guys. It's emphatically NOT CLEAR.

There's a jump between 1:11 and 1:12 in the video. Just before, the sled bumps
into the tires in the front of the car. You can actually see the car
physically jerk back as the sled hits. Just after, all four wheels of the car
have magically appeared on top of the sled.

Phooey.

If this were as simple as everyone thinks, there would not be a jump in the
video at the exact point that the magic happens!

~~~
improbable22
30s:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bocfNOjeBm8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bocfNOjeBm8)

40s:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIaxPa2aUDI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIaxPa2aUDI)

~~~
PhantomGremlin
Thank you. Those videos illustrate the concept much better than any others.

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cproctor
> He said that passenger feedback was “overwhelmingly good” during a five-
> month trial at Charles de Gaulle last year, where the system operated so
> seamlessly that some customers were not even aware a robot had been
> involved.

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bradknowles
Only 4 robots? Why so few?

And only for 4 travelers? Why that arbitrary limitation? Why can’t they handle
5 travelers?

~~~
Thorrez
Where does it mention 4?

