
History of China's Nine-Dash Line - smaili
http://time.com/4412191/nine-dash-line-9-south-china-sea/
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fredliu
What's ironic about this article of "History of Nine-Dash Line", is that it
mentioned ROC (Republic Of China) 0 times, and only mentioned Taiwan twice (in
either cases related to the actual history). The fact is that the original
Eleven-Dash Line/Nine-Dash Line was established by ROC (now Taiwan) who still
holds the claim, and is furious about the recent "ruling". I guess nobody
gives an F what Taiwan thinks in this matter is probably because... well who
cares about Taiwan, when we are talking about the Big Bad China, right?
Sarcasm aside, if you want to talk about history, at least get the actual
history part right: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-
dash_line](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-dash_line)

~~~
huahaiy
This recent ruling is absurd in that it redefines the concept of island. For
example, the largest island in South China Sea, Taiping Island, which has
natural fresh water, and is continuously populated by Taiwan since WWII, is no
longer considered an island. If this ruling is to be followed, many countries
claims on islands all over the planet would be null and void, including some
of USA's.

~~~
fredliu
I'm no international law lawyer, and didn't really look too much into the
details of the "ruling", which I think, as any law, would be pointless unless
there's enforcement (by whom?). It just baffles me that an article about the
"history" of something didn't mention one of the first questions regarding the
history of anything: where does it come from? It's not that hard to look up,
it's right there in the first sentence on wikipedia....

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Animats
The UN tried to standardize offshore claims with the International Law of the
Sea treaty. China is a signatory, but the US is not.[1]

Most of the problems come from areas which have many small islands off a
continental coastline. An island in the coastal zone extends ownership. In the
South China Sea, there are many islands which are in the coastal zone of more
than one country. Hence the problem.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_t...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_the_Law_of_the_Sea)

~~~
huahaiy
International Law of the Sea regulates issues related to the seas, not lands
(including islands). Countries signed the treaty on the understanding that the
treaty does not cover sovereign claims of islands.

What creative about this new arbitration ruling is that it redefines the
concept of island, so many islands are now classified as rocks, in order for
them to fall into the jurisdiction of the Law of the Sea. However, I don't
think this works, as a law about seas cannot unilaterally defines what
constitutes lands.

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Analemma_
The nine-dash line is self-evident absurdity. One glance at it on a map is
enough to know it's ridiculous. It's like if Spain claimed the entire
Mediterranean Sea all the way to the Suez Canal. I'm sorry if China is upset
by this Hague ruling, but the historical conditions of 500 years ago don't
mean they get to extend a giant territorial pseudopod into a body of water and
muscle out five other countries, many of which have more coastline on it.

~~~
venomsnake
Two questions: First - are the armies of the countries bordering south china
sea able to win armed conflict with China?

Second - is the US willing to risk war with nuclear armed China over that?

If the both answers are No - then this is neither self evident or absurdity.

Might makes right. And China probably has enough of it.

~~~
Freak_NL
China appears to be testing if they can push this far. It's not just a matter
of military power; China's economy depends on their exports to Europe and
Northern America (so sanctions can really hit hard), and shipping through the
South China Sea is a big deal to Europe, Northern America, South Korea, and
Japan.

China is actively trying to influence the situation with soft power as well.
The Chinese ambassador in The Netherlands paid for a full page advert in a
national newspaper to publish a letter condemning the 'illegitimate' court
that ruled on this dispute with The Philippines. The fact that he couldn't get
his letter published normally (and for free) in the op/ed sections of _any_
Dutch newspaper is telling though.

I suspect they are going for an absurd claim in order to 'graciously' come to
a compromise of about half of that (certainly including the Paracel Islands)
after a while, but the situation is certainly unique. They are more than
likely strengthened in their confidence by the lack of consequences of the
Crimean annexation by Russia (although the economic sanctions hurt Russia
quite bad).

~~~
googletazer
Imo they are ideologically strengthened for historical reasons. You can't grab
pieces of the world for two centuries and subvert democratically elected
governments with military dictatorships that are favorable to you and then
once a strong contender appears tell them its the 21st century now and not how
things are done anymore. They aren't stupid and they know that might makes
right.

China is on an upswing trajectory and their people know it from increases in
real income for vast majority of the population. It was the strongest country
in the world for centuries, and they'll regain that title again, eventually.

Russia lost too much brainpower in the past 25 years. Too many Russians and
Russian Jews emigrated to US to use their PhDs to make money on Wall St.
They're not coming back, and it will take another 25 years to grow a new
generation of minds to lead Russia. Yes, Chinese students go to foreign
universities but in general China doesn't have a brain drain problem, and
thats why they'll win.

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douche
They're on the upswing until the bubble pops, anyway. They've got some
demographic issues coming down the pike at them, as well.

I hope things don't deteriorate into massive bloodshed and revolt when the
music stops and the economy backslides, but that's what has tended to happen
in the past, and Chinese history is more cyclical than most...

~~~
googletazer
And they're very proactive in handling their issues. I do agree with you that
history moves into cycles - some of the most most powerful entities that were
at least in part democracies (athens, poland, etc..) were bested by absolutist
regimes , which afterwards were overcome by democracies themselves.

Top-down approach doesn't always work, but did wonders for them for the past
30 years. Meanwhile members of the British working class have voted for Brexit
to protect their interests (good for them), and US might follow soon with
Trump. How confident were they in things getting better compared with the
Chinese?

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Zikes
Journalists these days really love "tell, don't show" don't they. In case
anyone else wants to actually see what the Nine-Dash Line looks like:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-
dash_line#/media/File:9_d...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-
dash_line#/media/File:9_dotted_line.png)

~~~
wl
Link to the file page, for those who can't stand Media Viewer.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:9_dotted_line.png](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:9_dotted_line.png)

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x1798DE
I'll I'm surprised "those who can't stand media viewer" isn't everyone.
Thankfully, Wikipedia falls back really gracefully without JS, and if you
block JS you don't get MediaViewer or modal dialog during the pledge drive,
even when logged out (almost cancelled my recurring donation over the modal
dialog).

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walrus01
see also, "great wall of sand":
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_wall_of_sand](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_wall_of_sand)

