
Skill Doesn’t Matter If You Lack Taste - obtino
http://nathanbarry.com/skill-doesnt-matter-if-you-lack-taste/
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bcjordan
Reminds me of Ira Glass on taste and work:

 _"Nobody tells this to people who are beginners, I wish someone told me. All
of us who do creative work, we get into it because we have good taste. But
there is this gap. For the first couple years you make stuff, it's just not
that good. It's trying to be good, it has potential, but it's not. But your
taste, the thing that got you into the game, is still killer. And your taste
is why your work disappoints you. A lot of people never get past this phase,
they quit. Most people I know who do interesting, creative work went through
years of this. We know our work doesn't have this special thing that we want
it to have. We all go through this. And if you are just starting out or you
are still in this phase, you gotta know its normal and the most important
thing you can do is do a lot of work. Put yourself on a deadline so that every
week you will finish one story. It is only by going through a volume of work
that you will close that gap, and your work will be as good as your ambitions.
And I took longer to figure out how to do this than anyone I've ever met. It's
gonna take awhile. It's normal to take awhile. You've just gotta fight your
way through."_

~~~
klaut
I love this quote. Everytime i read it, it reminds me that it is fine if i
feel that i am producing crap. I just need to keep on working at it and
eventually i'll do fine

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psylence519
"If you watch the newer Star Wars movies pay attention to the transitions near
the end. When they are switching between each of the battle scenes they use
Powerpoint style transitions. Dissolve, blinds, swipe. It’s an amateur effect
in a movie that is otherwise very technically difficult and visually
impressive. The skill is there, but taste is lacking."

I'm sure the use of dissolves and wipes in the newer Star Wars movies had
absolutely nothing to do with the previous Star Wars movies using those
everywhere. I'm sure it was a lack of taste on the part of the editor.

If anything those were the best parts of those movies, they were at least
consistent.

~~~
rollypolly
I think that point was completely lost on the OP.

As far as lack of taste is concerned, people need to be more self critical and
understand their limits.

I'm a good engineer, but not so great designer, so it's a lot more cost
effective for me to find a good designer to work with.

~~~
bicknergseng
I agree and might go so far as to say the transitions were in good taste.
"Taste" seems to me like a fairly generic word that can be easily misused. To
me, taste implies consistency with tradition as well as good design, etc., but
the OP seems to think that taste is directly synonymous with good design.

If he really wanted to use an example of bad taste from the new Star Wars
movies, it seems like everything Jar Jar would have been the easy target.

~~~
nathanbarry
True, but that would be talking about script and character development rather
than design.

~~~
bicknergseng
Ah, but that's our point I think. You mean to talk about design, but taste is
not synonymous with design. If you mean to say that the SW screen wipes are
terrible design even if they're properly implemented, I think you'd have less
people squawking. But you said they were bad taste, which is subjectively
incorrect because they are in keeping with the older films.

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beloch
Taste doesn't matter if you lack skill and knowledge.

The linked post is a fine example of a tasteful message falling completely
flat because it was argued without skill or sufficient knowledge. i.e. It was
pretty much undone by the use of a stupendously and hilariously wrong example:
Lucas' love for (and homage to) Hollywood-serial era transitions.

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branola
_“It is good taste, and good taste alone, that possesses the power to
sterilize and is always the first handicap to any creative functioning.”_

\- Salvador Dali

~~~
farinasa
Reminds me of a certain hardware company.

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imjk
'Blaring messages about sales, quickly spoken copy, and flashing graphics are
not going to make anyone look fondly on your brand...Rewrite your script.
Never use phrases like “4 easy steps.” '

Tell that to direct marketers who very deliberately create such
advertisements. While your statement may have validity, I would argue a more
important point:

"Taste doesn't matter if you lack sales."

~~~
nathanbarry
_"Taste doesn't matter if you lack sales."_

A lot of things don't matter if you lack sales. And I should say that good
taste is certainly not a prerequisite to sales.

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vectorpush
Taste is subjective and fleeting. The once lauded tastes of the 90s are now
regarded as oh so _dreadfully_ pedestrian by enlightened contemporary minds.

The crux of taste is rooted in celebrity worship and group think. Taste is a
roll of the die and a hope that your vision resonates with those around you.
It's no coincidence that every great artist is eventually regarded as jumping
the shark; their tastes evolve or remain static, but time tends to displace
the alignment between one's taste and the world around them (hence the need to
"stay on top" of the latest trends).

Taste is almost negligible.

~~~
stcredzero
_Taste is subjective and fleeting. The once lauded tastes of the 90s are now
regarded as oh so dreadfully pedestrian by enlightened contemporary minds._

You seem to have specific examples in mind. I have no idea what they are on
this side of your skull. More specific language would be appreciated.

 _The crux of taste is rooted in celebrity worship and group think. Taste is a
roll of the die and a hope that your vision resonates with those around you._

A lot of what is called "taste" is group think. Not all of it is, however. In
addition to "taste" there is also Taste. A number of the hallmarks of Taste in
instrumental music, like the ability to use slight modulation of rhythm to
convey the visceral feeling of specific dance steps, are demonstrably cross
cultural and enduring across generations. Many of the hallmarks of Taste in
visual design (rule of thirds) have endured over hundreds of years. Note that
these examples are rooted in the function of the human sensorium -- that's not
coincidence.

This isn't to say that absolutely everything Louis Armstrong's contemporaries
did still resonates today. It also isn't to say that absolutely everything the
old masters painted resonates with 21st century viewers. But note how much of
what Louis Armstrong and Michaelangelo did which still resonates and which
contemporary artists still include in their practice. We now know from science
that people are not "blank slates." This notion was just an ideological
fiction. Our senses and perceptions mostly work in a particular way, and this
is bound to give rise to Taste.

That said, you are mostly right, and our functioning as social animals with
the ability to maintain ideologies as a group bonding mechanism also gives
rise to "taste."

 _Taste is almost negligible._

If by this, you mean that the ratio of Taste/"taste" is frustratingly close to
zero, I'd say you're right. Groupthink is agonizingly powerful, but that's
only most of what there is, not all of it. (Sturgeon's Law)

~~~
vectorpush
_You seem to have specific examples in mind. I have no idea what they are on
this side of your skull. More specific language would be appreciated._

That was a bit tongue-in-cheek, my point is that tastes are in a state of
perpetual change and instances that are regarded as representations of "good
taste" are generally reflections of today's zeitgeist. Taste (as in gustation)
is a good analog for social taste; people have a general idea of what tastes
good to other people, but they almost always know what they like to eat and
they also know that everyone is different and preferences in taste vary over
time and by location. A good chef (someone that might be regarded as having
good taste), certainly has his own preferences, but his _skill_ is the
capacity to engineer a dish that meets the requirements of any taste (because
"good" depends on the taster)

 _A number of the hallmarks of Taste in instrumental music, like the ability
to use slight modulation of rhythm to convey the visceral feeling of specific
dance steps, are demonstrably cross cultural and enduring across generations._

What you describe are skills. Someone who "has taste" simply has preferences
that align with those around them; catering to taste is just marketing. This
is not to say that works of intrinsic merit don't exist, but those who can
appreciate the finer details of a given work (in any domain) are rare, thus we
rely on the social taste as a heuristic for determining which things are good.
Those who pay little attention to the trends around them and simply serve
their own preferences/apathy are regarded as tasteless. Even those cheesy Star
Wars transitions were hip at one time.

~~~
stcredzero
_What you describe are skills._

They are not just skills. The things I am referring to are tied to
>awareness<. I say this as a musician of 23 years. Just because you have the
neuromuscular resource to replicate a certain rhythm doesn't mean you know
when and why to do so. (And if one has an incomplete understanding of exactly
how you're trying to tweak the sensorium, one might also mess up the "how,"
yielding something that falls into an uncanny valley.) There is a certain
knowledge of how and when and why which has to do with focused awareness of
the moment and how the human sensorium works. This is tied to deep
concentration, which seems to be the kind of deep concentration that
meditation enthusiasts talk about. ("Being in the moment" is a part of this,
but I don't think that's the totality of it.) This is why so many musicians
emphasize >listening<.

 _This is not to say that works of intrinsic merit don't exist, but those who
can appreciate the finer details of a given work (in any domain) are rare,
thus we rely on the social taste as a heuristic for determining which things
are good._

The former is Taste, the latter is "taste." The latter is like the people who
only know they should become enthusiastic when opera singers hit the high
note.

 _Those who pay little attention to the trends around them and simply serve
their own preferences/apathy are regarded as tasteless._

This depends. Those who serve their own "taste" and fail to keep up with
trends are eventually regarded as "tasteless" because they are using an
outdated set of expectations. However, those with Taste, while they might be
temporarily disregarded by those with "taste," eventually withstand the test
of time. Often, when we are lucky, those with Taste set the trends.

 _Even those cheesy Star Wars transitions were hip at one time._

Yes, but when it comes to Taste, what matters is how well those transitions
work in the context of the work they're in. Certain paints, techniques, themes
can go in and out of "style" but what really matters is: did it work? (At a
deeper level than mere expectations.)

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commieneko
Taste depends on expectation and convention. There's no absolute standard to
apply, only local and traditional practices.

As others have pointed out, the Star Wars transitions are part of the conceit
of the movies. As an old fart, I grew up watching the movie serials that the
Star Wars, and Indiana Jones, movies are made in homage of. If you aren't
familiar with them then you are watching a _very_ different movie than I am.

This is probably one of the reasons that I rather like the prequels; I'm
viewing them in the context that they were created in. If Lucas erred it was
in expecting future generations to be aware of the context and not expecting
them to simply take the movies at face value. Since the movies made _a lot_ of
money, I don't feel he erred by much.

Lucas also is referencing a lot of post war Japanese film narrative technique;
this is less critical to "reading" the film, though.

I've never heard _anyone_ who knows about film narrative technique say that
Lucas was an "unskilled" film maker. As for the films literary quality, YMMV.

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camerondaigle
I posit that taste is a skill. There's no reason why someone might be able to
work to become better at understanding, distilling, and working with known
stylistic & cultural touchstones.

Of course, the meaning of "taste" in general is also ripe for a huge argument
about semantics between folks with some free time on their hands.

~~~
nathanbarry
I think you're right that "taste is a skill." I think a lot of people would
appreciate content on developing taste.

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MaxGabriel
I posit that this argument is true in proportion to how much freedom you have
to accomplish a task.

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jomohke
Related reading: Taste for Makers by PG <http://www.paulgraham.com/taste.html>

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chadyj
Does anyone see the irony in referencing Star Wars in an article on taste. Not
to mention the cinematic blasphemy of indirectly comparing Kurosawa to MS
Powerpoint!

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richardw
"when you don't create things, you become defined by your tastes rather than
ability. your tastes only narrow & exclude people. so create." - _why

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farinasa
Kind of ironic that the title of the post is written in an extremely tasteless
font.

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known
Skill is secondary to _utility_

