
 Trying Tim Ferriss's "no grain" diet for 30 days... - ryandvm
http://grainandsuffering.blogspot.com/
======
mhartl
I doubt there's anything terribly wrong with cutting out dietary grains, but
the basis for a "paleo" diet appears to rest on two principal assumptions:

1\. Pre-agricultural humans didn't eat grains

2\. The human digestive system has evolved little since the introduction of
agriculture

The problem is that both of these assumptions are dubious at best. If
paleolithic humans didn't eat grains, then how were grains ever domesticated
in the first place? Obviously, _someone_ was eating grains in the wild, and
evidently over time people learned how to cultivate them. I have no trouble
believing that the paleo diet contained far fewer grains than the typical
post-agricultural diet, but that suggests eating select whole grains in
moderation, not eliminating them entirely.

In addition, the idea that ten thousand years isn't enough time for
substantial evolution is clearly wrong. The reason the New World was ravaged
by smallpox, plague, influenza, etc., upon contact with Europeans was because
Americans (in the generalized sense) lacked the resistance that Eurasians had
evolved in the time since the invention of agriculture. Meanwhile, some people
(especially northern Europeans) have no trouble digesting milk because they
evolved the ability to metabolize lactose—presumably a recent innovation,
since dairy animals were domesticated around the same time as grains. (Yet
many "paleo" advocates also recommend eschewing dairy.) Indeed, "lactose
intolerance" is a misnomer; what's remarkable is that anyone is lactose-
tolerant—lactose-tolerant humans are the only mammals to produce the necessary
lactase enzyme as adults. There is every reason to expect that a similar
evolutionary process has led to an enhanced ability to digest grains; it may
not be true, but it should be the null hypothesis.

In short, the basic idea of eating nutrient-dense foods is based on sound
science, but the complete elimination of perfectly healthy foods such as whole
grains and dairy doesn't have any basis in reality.

------
crazyjimbo
I did a similar experiment last year. For 3 months I stuck to a low carb diet,
influenced by the Atkin's diet, but not following it strictly. I was a very
healthy weight and decided to try it after a number of arguments with friends
and family where I defended the science behind it. I wanted to see whether it
was genuinely a healthy diet, and not just the weight loss tool that it was
getting all the buzz about.

I'm pleased to say the results where overwhelmingly positive. After the first
unpleasant week as my body adjusted, I started to feel more energetic, less
hungry and I needed less sleep. The biggest quantitative improvement though
was the quality of my skin. I've always had problems with acne, even now I'm
past my troubled teen years but on a low carb diet my skin almost completely
cleared up. I'm sure it was more nutritious too because when you're not
bulking your meals out with pasta, rice or potatoes, you don't have much
choice other than to eat more veg.

After about 3 months, enough carbohydrate had crept back into my diet that I
wasn't really doing anything special anymore, but I'm very tempted to go back
and try to stick to it properly.

Good luck with your own experiment!

------
salemh
I’ve vacillated from a near-all vegetarian diet (with fish 1x a week, mostly
kidney beans for protein and eggs) back to this more "primal diet" of non-
grains / breads.

Starting a few years ago, and overweight, I started feeling healthier after a
few weeks. Over the next year dropped 55 lbs, then an addition 15 lbs of fat
in another 3-5 months. This was without much exercise (due to a lower-back
injury), though I would walk a few times a week. Which is not enough :)

I am still in a similar eating pattern (this is not a diet, it’s a way of
healthy eating); lots of vegetables, meat and eggs daily. I may have grains /
bread (pizza or other junk) on the weekend if I am inclined. I gradually
turned into this eating lifestyle by making small eating changes 1x per week.

Such as, getting rid of soda. Then getting rid of any deserts. Getting rid of
bread at night. Getting rid of all pasta’s, etc. Slow progression to healthier
eating. After a time, junk food will literally make you sick and not be as
tasty..though if I’m missing something (like good fats or protein), I
sometimes go nuts and eat 2 burritos or 3 burgers.

I go through these groceries weekly, cooking 2-4x meals per day.

12-24 eggs

2-3 steaks (frozen), or pork, or ground beef (Bison is tasty)

2-4 servings of fish (frozen, tilapia, halibut etc)

~1 can of kidney beans (against Tim Ferris’ article)

Number of handfuls of nuts; almonds, cashews, etc.

½ frozen bag of green beans

½ frozen bag of broccoli

1 bag of Chinese broccoli

3-4 peppers (green, red)

2-3 avocado’s

2-4 tomato’s

2 bags of spinach

I also used to eat more than 5 meals a day, now down to 2-4 (mostly a lot of
snacks). Eating healthier = less fuel needed to function.

Edit: It took a number of MONTHS to get over feeling lethargic from not having
any grains / bread. For those months I still had some grain / bread for lunch.

------
kilian
Cutting out grains isn't just about the gluten, but about the starch and sugar
too. Replacing grains with fruit and potatoes is likely not optimal.

I've been eating paleo/primal/low-carb (whatever) for half a year now. The
need/craving for sweets and carby stuff disappears in a week (for me, YMMV). I
eat about the same as I used to (which means I'm eating more meat and veggies
to compensate) and don't recognize the hunger aspect of it at all. What I like
most is the complete lack of insulin surge after a meal. I can eat a meal and
immediatelly go sporting, because there is no insulin spike and thus no energy
dip.

However, each body reacts differently, and it might now work for you. I know
some people stay hungry without noticing anything.

~~~
wvl
Yes. I would advise getting the book (Tim's blog article was just an excerpted
chapter). The latter part of the book gives the "how". You should definitely
not be feeling hungry from this diet, _especially_ if you're not trying to
lose weight.

------
adamtj
I wouldn't be surprised if this works, because I've done something similarly
drastic that worked for me. Here's my story:

Last year I read something by Giles Bowkett about how he lost weight and got
healthy. I've read about many fad diets and they all seem crazy or
impractical. What he described sounded just boring enough to work. If you
think about what a silver-bullet diet would look like, this is it. Here's his
touched up version of what I originally read:
[http://gilesbowkett.blogspot.com/2010/06/how-i-
lost-75-pound...](http://gilesbowkett.blogspot.com/2010/06/how-i-
lost-75-pounds-in-six-months-and.html)

It's Dr. Fuhrmann's Eat To Live diet: Eat more vegetables. Lots more. Eat
mostly vegetables. I didn't follow the diet exactly. I just tried to eat lots
more vegetables. I was a young, fairly healthy guy but maybe 15 lbs
overweight. I ate more vegetables, lost 10 lbs in a month, and felt fantastic
doing it. I didn't eat any less or more. I didn't workout more. I simply lost
weight and felt great.

I don't know if the no-grain thing will work for anybody, but the more
vegetables thing sure worked for me.

~~~
runjake
When I was single, I went on a modified (included small portions of lean
meats) Eat To Live diet as an experiment.For breakfast, I jammed myself full
of fruits and some dairy. For lunch I had a Subway salad with all the veggies
and a lean meat. For dinner, I had a large punchbowl-sized salad with a
variety of vegetables and a lean meat. Broccoli and vast amounts of spinach
seemed a common theme. I also drank A LOT of water. I did not modify my
sedentary fitness scheme.

The results were that I dropped 10 lbs a week for that month, didn't seem to
lose any muscle, and didn't feel hungry. I felt more energetic. The downside
was that I had to make 3 trips a week to the store for fresh veggies.

Some of my other "body hacks" experiments were:

\- Vegan for 2 years

\- Vegetarian for 10 years. Going back to meat (especially tuna) had amazing
effects on my brain functioning. Tuna was initially the only meat I could eat
without throwing it back up. I noticed great mind improvements within a couple
days.

\- Eliminating all sodas (of which I only drank diet pepsi) for a month. I
very rapidly lost (probably water) weight. If I recall, it was about 20 lbs. I
have no clue whats in Diet Pepsi that causes weight/water retention.

\- Polyphasic sleep: A total scam in my experience. Maybe I need too much
sleep.

\- 5BX: Really works

\- Body For Life: Really works as advertised, but consumes your life.

\- Couch (couldn't jog 400 meters to start) to ultramarathon in 8 months, with
several marathons as "training" along the way. Some marathons were at high
altitude and quite rugged.

\- I have not used any soap or shampoo for 2 weeks now (per
[http://freetheanimal.com/2009/12/paleo-i-dont-care-i-like-
no...](http://freetheanimal.com/2009/12/paleo-i-dont-care-i-like-no-soap-no-
shampoo.html)). To save space, I am finding the same results as the author,
Richard Nikoley, has.

I don't stink. I haven't told my wife about this experiment and she hasn't
mentioned any stink yet! Another modifier to my washing regime is that I now
use a washcloth instead of just a bar of soap in hand, so this probably has an
effect, too.

I don't have any particular ideological aims behind these experiments (except
maybe to go against conventional wisdom).

If anyone has any other interesting experiments they want/wish they could try,
post em here, maybe I'll try for you!

------
jcromartie
What strikes me as odd about this is that grains are a perfectly natural food
source and a staple of plenty of really healthy people, from all around the
world, and for as far back in history as you care to delve. Why not eat
grains?

And also, since this appears to be about gluten: it cracks me up that one
health food movement (the macrobiotic movement) get away with promoting seitan
(which is just fried/steamed/baked wheat gluten) as a health food, while
another movement says that gluten kills you.

~~~
pronoiac
Gluten allergies aren't that uncommon.

~~~
hvs
But a specific allergy to gluten is well-known, tested, and verified
phenomenon (it's called celiac disease). What this guy is attempting to pass
off as "science" is just a bunch of conjecture about "this isn't what primates
eat."

Thousands of years of evidence contradict his rather flimsy conjectures.

~~~
cageface
Not only that but he's not even defining his terms well. What does it mean to
say that you'll "feel better"? This just isn't science.

~~~
pronoiac
Dude. It's a _blog,_ not a rigorous scientific study.

~~~
cageface
He's making specific, testable, claims with no references and encouraging
people to make potentially damaging changes to their diets. That demands a
slightly higher standard of evidence than somebody's cute code samples or kid
photos.

~~~
tremendo
_> He's making specific, testable, claims_

And that is good, you can specifically test the claims

 _> with no references_

The blog is a guest post by Rob Wolff with an excerpt from his book, where the
references are.

 _> and encouraging people to make potentially damaging changes to their
diets._

Woah, avoiding lectins for 30 days potentially damaging? Everything is
possible I guess, but that seems not only highly unlikely, but a stark
contrast to the point of the recommendation: a potentially _beneficial_ change
to their diets.

 _> That demands a slightly higher standard of evidence than somebody's cute
code samples or kid photos._

I don't see why, because I don't see any possible danger whatsoever in
avoiding grains for a month. If I'm wrong, please illuminate me. I am
admittedly, another anecdote case of positive outcome from avoiding grains.

------
louissalin
Good for you for trying the no-grain diet! Just one question, however: you
seem to eat food that is likely to include corn syrup. For example: the
smoothie at McDonald's. Don't you think corn syrup should also be eliminated?

------
pkaler
It probably shouldn't be referred to as Tim Ferris' "no grain" diet. The
original post was Robb Wolf, author of The Paleo Solution. The goal isn't to
eat no grain. The goal is to eat no gluten. Grain just happens to contain
gluten.

It should probably be called No Gluten diet or refer to Robb Wolf instead
since he wrote the book and did all of the research.

------
IgorPartola
"The second worst part of this diet is that I'm _always_ hungry." I think
that's the basis of this whole diet. I think it's reasonable to assume that
the average American diet is far from ideal for the mostly sedentary
lifestyles we lead (once again, talking only about the average case). So any
change is an improvement. What I want to see is a study that pits the paleo
diet against, say the low carb diet, against just a balanced carb/protein/fat
diet against a control group. My wife was telling me about a study that did a
low carb vs balanced vs control experiment and the balanced diet won by an
appreciable margin, but I don't have any links handy.

~~~
tremendo
_> ...a study... low carb vs balanced..._

Might this be it? (link is a debunking):
[http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/09/08/brand-spankin-new-study-
are...](http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/09/08/brand-spankin-new-study-are-low-carb-
meat-eaters-in-trouble/)

------
16s
Without grains and agriculture... the earth could not sustain billions of
people.

~~~
tremendo
Maybe. Then again, if you ask Jared Diamond, grains and agriculture could be
partly responsible for the earth having billions of people.
[http://www.mnforsustain.org/food_ag_worst_mistake_diamond_j....](http://www.mnforsustain.org/food_ag_worst_mistake_diamond_j.htm)

------
doubleg
Ferriss' article discussion: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1707305>

------
jpspeno
Good luck. You may be interested in the paleo hacks site. It's one of them
stack overflow sites for questions about stuff related to the paleo diet and
lifestyle: <http://paleohacks.com/>

------
js2
Eggs seem conspicuously absent.

~~~
ryandvm
Good point. I'll be upping my consumption.

~~~
simonsarris
and very large portions of insects, if we're talking primates.

~~~
hugh3
We really shouldn't be talking primates at all. Diets of paleolithic humans
look nothing like diets of primates, we split off millions of years ago. Eat
what a chimpanzee eats and you'll get sick.

~~~
icey
Many people consume insects today; it's just not very popular in western
cultures.

~~~
js2
[http://video.nytimes.com/video/2010/09/21/dining/12480690665...](http://video.nytimes.com/video/2010/09/21/dining/1248069066500/mealworm-
it-s-what-s-for-dinner.html)

