
Uber sued by family of six-year-old killed in San Francisco crash - georgebashi
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/27/uber-sued-family-six-year-old-killed-crash-san-francisco
======
rd108
Uber, Lyft and its ilk are half innovative, efficient tech services and half
hypercapitalist scavengers employing workers while avoiding paying those pesky
benefits, worker's compensation or damages to a dead six year old's family.

~~~
samstave
As a user f Uber since very early on, I half agree, half disagree.

Uber is awesome -- ut the costing model fucking sucks.

When in SF I lived in Presidio and Upper Market/Noe Valley area...

Getting the SF cabs to come to my house was so infuriating; nobody wanted to
come pick me up in Presidio or Noe Valley.

I was actually banned from multiple cab companies, as - it turns out - they
share caller data: I was calling multiple cab companies to my house (Because
nobody would show) as a shotgun approach to getting a cab. A dispatcher told
me I was blacklisted due to this practice; my response was that if the cab had
shown up, I wouldnt do this...

They didnt care. (I had MANY calls where I called 20+ times and waited 2
hours.)

FUC THE SF CABS. PERIOD.

HOWEVER; I think that Uber (and ALL cabs) are way over priced.

The fact that I had to pay $75 to take me from SF to SFO - where I was FLYING
to LAX from SFO for $99 - I found this ridiculous!

The fact is that all CAB fees are just not congruous with the service.

When A cab ride from a home in SF to SFO costs ~$80, but takes ~30 minutes,
you're paying the equiv $160K per year for the services of a DRIVER...

This is not sustainable.

~~~
jaksmit
if you are concerned about price, then why didn't you just use Uber X? I just
did SF to SFO via Uber X and it was $30.

~~~
samstave
I've used Uber since day one -- Uber X didn't exist when I relied on it often
for SFO trips ... even still, it's not a good mapping...

------
faramarz
The article doesn't mention if the driver was en-route to pick up a driver.

Uber should be liable once driver taps on the button and a customer is locked
in. He's rushing to get there, like any other taxi who sees a customer flag
them down across the road.

Makes sense no? That said, this is any company's nightmare. Why don't they
just settle and be a good citizen.

~~~
jcampbell1
> Muzzafar was cooperative, Mahoney said, and “claimed he was driving around
> and his Uber application was turned on and he was waiting for a fare or job
> close by.” [1]

I don't think this case is going to have any dispute about the facts. He did
not have a passenger, was not enroute to a passenger, but had the Uber App on
and was driving around waiting for a fare.

[1] [http://www.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/uber-driver-
arrested-...](http://www.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/uber-driver-arrested-for-
vehicular-manslaughter-in-girls-death/Content?oid=2664123)

~~~
faramarz
IMO, the only way Uber wouldn't be liable is if the cab driver shut off his
uber phone and turned on his personal phone.

Uber app on means he's ALWAYS hunting for business. Uber enabled that. Uber's
insurance should protect the driver.

~~~
avalaunch
I'm not sure it's that cut and dry. Since the driver isn't an employee, but
instead an independent contractor, he could have the app on while he's driving
to go get groceries or any number of other personal errands. Should Uber be
liable then? Maybe, maybe not. I'm not sure.

~~~
faramarz
I understand your reasoning and I count myself on that side of thinking.

But then again, if you think about it, being an Uber driver is unlike any
other contractor. If I were an Uber driver, i'd have my app open as much as
possible. every second is potential income, and every ping to my app is
guaranteed income.

Can a php contractor say that by having their email client open all day?

------
jboydyhacker
Reading the headline I thought - well if there was no passenger- they are
fine. However, if their whole model is based on drivers using an app to find
passengers and the guy was hunting around for them when he hit the pedestrian-
it's problematic. I guess Uber could take the position they assume the driver
is stationary when getting new instructions.

~~~
georgemcbay
I'm sure this ruling here gives them a bit of the cold sweats:

[http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2013/08/27/senders-of-texts-to-
driv...](http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2013/08/27/senders-of-texts-to-drivers-can-
be-held-liable-court-rules/)

Granted it happened in NJ, not CA, and it isn't directly applicable anyway,
but they might have a hard time with the same sort of idea applied to the way
their entire dispatching model works.

I would think if the plaintiffs could prove conclusively the guy was actively
operating the Uber app at the time of the accident (which they tend to imply
in these stories but I have no idea if that's just spin) it would be nearly a
slam dunk case in front of your average jury.

------
acmiller
If you're interested, you can read the complaint on the SF Superior Court's
website. [1]

[1]
[http://webaccess.sftc.org/Scripts/Magic94/mgrqispi94.dll?APP...](http://webaccess.sftc.org/Scripts/Magic94/mgrqispi94.dll?APPNAME=WEB&PRGNAME=ValidateCaseNumber&ARGUMENTS=-ACGC14536979)

------
nobody_nowhere
FTA> This is the first case against Uber and is likely to be hard fought by
the company

First legal case against uber? My ass it is.

------
cloudwizard
Uber claims to be a platform like Ebay. When I buy something on Ebay, I pay
the seller not Ebay.

When I get a ride on Uber, I pay Uber. Uber pays the driver. Uber cancelled
the drivers account. They fired the driver. Uber is screwed. Luckily, they
have a lot of money.

------
zobzu
kinda funny how it defends "taxi's good driving". pretty sure i don't need to
describe how theres safe and less safe drivers and taxi certainly aren't a
model of safety for driving in general.

------
lxmorj
The job they are paid to do is move people right? They aren't paid to monitor
the app while driving. Is an employer liable for a worker crashing on the way
to work?

~~~
jacalata
Sometimes the employer is liable, yes:
[http://www.atblaw.net/blog/tag/employee-injured-on-way-to-
wo...](http://www.atblaw.net/blog/tag/employee-injured-on-way-to-work/)

------
Shinkei
Ugh, it had to be Chris Dolan defending this family. They should've hired
somebody more respectable than the guy who defended the Jahi McMath family. He
is an affront to rational thinking in society.

------
zikzikzik
How does Uber compare to Mechanical Turk in this regard? Would Amazon (or a
requester?!) be liable for accidents happening to (or caused by) turkers while
they are working on a request?

------
jonobird1
I don't see how Uber is responsible. Correct me if I'm wrong but you wouldn't
sue Android if you were texting while driving, or Google Maps if you were
changing your location and had a crash.

So why would Uber be responsible if their driver was using their app?
Especially if Uber says to their drivers not to use it while driving.

Interested to hear thoughts here.

~~~
velis_vel
Under your Google scenario, presumably the person using Google Maps on Android
wasn't operating as a driver working for Google. Uber hired him to drive cars,
so they're liable for what he does while he drives them.

