
Pirate Party Germany gets into the parliament for the state of Berlin - FrojoS
http://web.piratenpartei.de/
======
Luyt
Arrrr, me hearties, I still can't get used to the term 'pirate' that is
slapped upon people who copy digital music.

A pirate is a criminal at sea, who inititiates violence against sea travelers.
Pirates steal property (like vessels) and valuables, and it's not uncommon
that pirates _murder_ their victims, or take them hostage for a ransom.

How the term 'pirate' ever could be used to denote kids swapping MP3's, is
unfathomable to me. The analogy is ludicrous. But maybe it could be because
pirate (the seafaring kind) communities in the 18th century had a liberal
approach to freedom, which was unusual in that time, and maybe that
extrapolates somehow to the liberal file swapping in our digital age. Which
doesn't, by the way, harm anyone, nor takes away things from people.

~~~
Tichy
I didn't like the name at first, but you can get used to it. Also I think in
former times pirates were actually often endorsed agents of some empires
(supporting their war efforts, at the very least). And they are famous for
being early democrats.

~~~
lclarkmichalek
Pirates endorsed as agents of a sovereign nation were known as privateers, not
pirates.

~~~
iand
One country's privateer was another country's pirate. Drake was given letters
of marque by the english monarch to raid the spanish around south america.

~~~
shithead
The British empire has the distinction of being the first founded on
systematic piracy.

~~~
iand
Oh I don't think we were the first :) But we perfected it.

------
FrojoS
There is a funny fact, that shows that even the Berlin Pirates them self did
not dream of a greater success: According to the current exit-poll
estimations, they would get 15 seats in the parliament. That's exactly the
number of candidates they assigned. Would they get more seats, those seats
would have to stay empty.

Though, as others have pointed out, its more likely, that their share will go
down once all votes are counted out.

------
loevborg
The German political spectrum is interesting to watch at the moment. There are
substantial changes, with real consequences on all levels. So far I think this
is democracy doing its job well. Thus established parties, like the "liberals"
(FDP) and the Greens, have neglected topics like data privacy, net neutrality.
The creation of a new party, like the Greens in the eighties and the Pirates
in the aughts, is a drastic sign that the agenda needs updating. Let's hope
that the German political system is stable enough to sustain substantive
changes to the political landscape without instability.

~~~
muuh-gnu
> "liberals" (FDP) and the Greens, have neglected topics like data privacy,
> net neutrality.

They didnt neglect them, they in theory represented the same values as the
pirate party, but after the elections, they ritually neglected their promises
in order to get into coalitions with the two big parties and into goverment.
So for a certain number of younger, technology-savy people they became
literaly worthless to vote for. The Pirate party rose at a such fast pace,
because an increasing number of people and their concerns werent even taken
seriously by the opposition.

~~~
ugh
I don't know, the greens seem to be a lot less progressive, in theory and
pactice. The greens are certainly a lot less willing to embrace technological
change.

~~~
bergie
In Finland the Greens were considered for a long time the only defender of any
issues related to the information society. But indeed, they've sold a lot of
principles to stay in government.

They even had an MP who has his site in Klingon:
<http://kasvi.org/index.php?kli> :-)

------
nextparadigms
Glad to see that the party that actually fights for Internet liberties, rather
than for the companies lobbying them, is starting to get more and more
political power in all these different countries where it exists.

~~~
mhd
The problems the Pirates face are getting beyond that one issue. I've read
their party programme, and it's a bit wishy-washy. Some interesting (and
unique) points, but no clear stance on the usual issues of politics (finance,
Euro-zone etc.). The run into the the danger of being a one-trick-pony, a pure
"option" part, who just add some point of views to the bigger coalition
partner ("I'll vote left with side-dish of legal file-sharing").

Same problem the Green party had (or, well, still has), but with even more
problems on the horizon, considering that the Greens were quite solidly
leftist from the start, where the Pirate party unites lefties and
libertarians.

Certainly a party to watch. I'd vote for any party that has a clear emphasis
on civil rights (not just for the internet), and their former "champions" in
Germany (the FDP) have done a pretty bad job in that regard lately.

~~~
archangel_one
I think this is deliberate; I remember at least one of the Pirate parties
saying that they didn't have any economic policies because they'd be a
minority partner in a coalition so those policies would never be applied.

Personally I find this refreshingly honest and I wish there was more of it;
our Green party, for example, has a very left-wing set of economic policies
which get ignored when they're in a coalition, because they're too left-wing
for any major party. All having them really seems to do is cement the fact
that they won't have anything to do with any party to the right of centre,
which kind of sucks when those parties win so the Green votes effectively get
ignored. I like the idea that the Pirate Parties don't want to go down the
same route.

~~~
robryan
Yeah the greens in Australia do the same thing and form a full set of policies
which usually are mostly ignored. It's only now that they hold somewhat of a
balance of power in the parliament that they are getting some action on some
of those policies.

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aw3c2
For what it's worth, the linked page currently does show pre-vote estimates,
not the current numbers. The results will be official later.

~~~
DasIch
Those estimates are generally very accurate.

~~~
bocanaut
indeed, they won´t change more than +/- 1,5%

~~~
cf0ed2aa-bdf5
True, however there are lots of 'Briefwähler' (absentee voters) in Berlin who
voted weeks ago and the Piratenpartei just got a lot of traction in the last
few weeks. Additionally there's a rather weird 5% clause in Berlin that
differs from the rest of Germany. Parties have to get 5% of all votes cast,
not just 5% of the valid ones.
([http://blog.zeit.de/zweitstimme/2011/09/16/aus-der-
kategorie...](http://blog.zeit.de/zweitstimme/2011/09/16/aus-der-kategorie-
immer-arger-mit-diesem-wahlrecht-heute-berlin/))

However they will probably still be in Parliament, I'm not really sure if they
will get as many seats as predicted right now.

~~~
bocanaut
generally, the absentee voters in germany do not affect the outcomes pretty
much

------
Create
I can't help not to wonder, who's counter-revolution this is exactly...

[http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/2011/09/the_curse_of_t...](http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/2011/09/the_curse_of_tina.html)

------
cabalamat
This is an exit poll rather than the actual result. Nevertheless, WELL DONE
PIRATES!

~~~
FrojoS
Yes, but according to the current exit polls they reached 8-9% so its safe to
assume that they are above the 5% threshold.

------
mdariani
Good Job. Let's see how they will perform over time. At least there will be
some very young and motivated people in the berlin parliament.

------
aualin
Great stuff, let's hope this happens in Sweden as well

------
bocanaut
chart (german): [http://wahlarchiv.tagesschau.de/flash/?wahl=2011-09-18-LT-
DE...](http://wahlarchiv.tagesschau.de/flash/?wahl=2011-09-18-LT-DE-BE)

and some further info:
[http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=...](http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zeit.de%2Fpolitik%2Fdeutschland%2F2011-09%2Fwahl-
berlin-ergebnis-2)

~~~
aw3c2
And without Flash [http://wahlarchiv.tagesschau.de/wahlen/2011-09-18-LT-DE-
BE/i...](http://wahlarchiv.tagesschau.de/wahlen/2011-09-18-LT-DE-
BE/index.shtml)

------
jaryd
*Parliament?

~~~
FrojoS
Thanks for pointing out. (In German its 'das Parlament'.)

~~~
stwe
BTW: The parliament in Berlin is actually not called "Parlament", but
"Abgeordnetenhaus" because it's a city state.

------
melvinng
Nice this is just like the Swedish party that took seats in the European
Parliament in 2009.

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zeynalov
No, they doesn't get into the parliament, it's only an exit-poll, not
official.

~~~
bocanaut
as written above, exit polls are quite accurate and won´t change much

------
etaty
Is it because of Apple suing Samsung? (PP is against patents)

------
NanoWar
Yarrrrr! Still voting green, but good job!

------
oemera
I'm little confused that this is a popular news at HN. They fight for Internet
stuff but they also deny that there was an Holocaust in Germany.

For me this is pretty bad news to hear that they will get into the parliament.

Source for denying the holocaust:
[http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js...](http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fixmbr.de%2Fquo-
vadis-piratenpartei%2F)

~~~
loevborg
I don't think this is valid criticism of the party in its current state. If
you can't give any evidence other than a post from two years ago based on a
Twitter message (!), we can assume that, if someone denied the Holocaust, that
was the opinion of a single individual. All established parties have nutters;
what counts is how the parties deal with them once the nutters make their
nutty views public.

~~~
morsch
It's based on more than merely a Twitter statement, and as far as I can tell,
the guy is still a member (though he has no more official responsibilities).
Aaron König, another prominent (in his case: former) pirate had his own crude
and/or right-wing extremist views. He now spreads them from a new populist
right-wing platform of the Geert Wilders kind. Despicable people, all around.

All that said, I agree that it's unfair to condemn the PP because of those
individuals. They're far from the norm.

