
Ancient Horse DNA Shows Scythian Warriors Were Adept Domesticators - gwern
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/27/science/horses-genetics-domestication-scythians.html
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sillyquiet
The descriptions of contemporary or near-contemporary historians like
Herodotus when describing the habits of their country's enemies must be taken
with a grain of salt, e.g., the 'slave-blinding' and 'blood-drinking'.

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abrowne
Even calling them "historians" makes them (and their methods) seem more
similar to modern historians(') than they were.

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gricardo99
The Dan Carlin podcast series "Kings of Kings"[1] colorfully describes the
Scythians, and many other groups. Fascinating stuff.

1 - [http://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-
history-56-kings-k...](http://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-
history-56-kings-kings/)

~~~
upvotinglurker
His series on Genghis Khan also describes a similar culture.

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mirimir
> In modern horses, the Y chromosomes in stallions are almost identical,
> reflecting the breeding technique of using a single stallion with desired
> characteristics to father many offspring.

Could that be true? I mean, could all modern domesticated stallions have
"almost identical" Y chromosomes?

Edit: Perhaps over generalizing?

> ... Lippold based his findings on the results of a 2004 Swedish study that
> showed a particular DNA sequence in the Y chromosomes of 52 modern-day
> stallions representing 15 different breeds was absolutely identical.

> This doesn't mean modern stallions have no diversity of all, Lippold
> cautioned. The researchers only studied one part of the Y chromosome ...

[http://www.thehorse.com/articles/28083/researchers-
examine-a...](http://www.thehorse.com/articles/28083/researchers-examine-
ancient-stallions-genetic-diversity)

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searine
Domestication leads to heavy inbreeding and a depression in genetic diversity
genome-wide.

Furthermore, the Y chromosome recombines at a much slower rate compared to the
autosome, resulting in less diversity. This should be balanced by a higher
mutation rate, but again, domestication depresses that.

So no, it's not really surprising to see this.

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upvotinglurker
(Source: ~25 years experience working with horses as a hobby)

At least in the US, inbreeding is indeed extensive. The vast majority of male
horses are castrated at a young age, since intact males are considered more
difficult to train and control (therefore more dangerous to humans) and more
expensive to house than castrated males or intact females. Therefore, a small
percentage of males end up fathering all the offspring. There are American
Quarter Horse stallions with literally thousands of offspring (sometimes to
their detriment, as when a popular stallion was belatedly discovered to carry
a recessive genetic disease[0]).

It's therefore interesting to a modern horse person to read that "the
Scythians maintained the natural herd structure" (a "harem" structure in which
one male tends to sexually dominate several females - but several, not
thousands, and not generally for his entire life).

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impressive_(horse)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impressive_\(horse\))

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searine
Scythians probably put a lot more value on an slow ugly horse that would live
30 years rather than a pretty horse that could sprint but died when it saw its
shadow.

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upvotinglurker
If you're trying to malign quarter horses, be aware that many can't even
sprint anymore (they're being bred more for "western pleasure" e.g. extremely
slow, mechanical movements ;-)

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mason240
> a pretty horse that could sprint but died when it saw its shadow

Sounds more like an Arabian horse. Famously skittish but fast.

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upvotinglurker
You can see examples of Scythian-style horse acrobatics and archery (by modern
Mongolians):

* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRvHJ5H73cU&t=90s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRvHJ5H73cU&t=90s)

* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stnNCDT-j1o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stnNCDT-j1o)

(edited to separate links)

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jumasheff
...and by modern Kyrgyzs:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LftDIksFNQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LftDIksFNQ)

