
Apply HN: Eat My Dust - Home testing for dangerous materials - hagope
Problem: Is our home free of poisons and toxins?
Idea: At home testing for dangerous materials; customers fill a vial with vacuum dust and mail it to us. Our lab will test for lead, asbestos, or other containments that may be lurking in your home. We’ll also test your water for lead, mercury, pharmaceuticals, and other toxins. Customers can then work to improve their environment and test on a regular basis.
Market: Anyone who lives under a roof and cares about their family’s health.<p>About Us: Husband (data engineer) and wife (bioinformatist).  I’ve worked in startups and big companies solving data problems, my wife has built LIMS (lab information management systems) for pharma and bio-tech companies. We live in the SF Bay area, and we’re always concerned about the safety of our environment for ourselves and daughter, but haven’t been able to validate that our home is safe to live in.
======
gleb
* If I had this idea here's how I'd approach to validating it.
    
    
      Solve the problem for yourself
    

Google and you'll find that there is [mold inspection], [lead inspection],
water tests, and both professional and direct-to-consumer versions of the
above.

I would get a professional mold inspector, and compare the results to direct-
to-consumer lab tests like [http://www.amazon.com/MyMoldDetective-MMD100-Mold-
Test-Kit/d...](http://www.amazon.com/MyMoldDetective-MMD100-Mold-Test-
Kit/dp/B00E3QV82Q)

Same for other tests.

I'd expect this to take maybe 20 hours of billable time doing research and
logistics, $2-3k for inspections and tests, and 1 month of calendar time.

    
    
      Research the market
    

Look at keyword search volumes. For example, using free version of
[https://www.semrush.com/](https://www.semrush.com/) we get

    
    
      Keyword Volume
      mold inspection       4,400
      mold test kit	        8,100
      lead inspection         260
      lead paint test kit	1,900
    

Figure 4 billable hours doing that

* If I were considering investing into such company the questions I'd ask myself would be:
    
    
      * would this area be a passion for the founders
      * is this a good market
      * can the founders execute on this idea
    

Based on the info presented and my priors my answers would be:

    
    
      * No
      * Yes
      * No
    

So what I would say would be:

"This is a good idea and the market. I think it's a little to early for you to
raise money. Consider solving the problem for yourself and better
understanding existing solutions. I'd love to chat again once you are further
ahead."

------
pnathan
What do you offer over this?

[http://www.amazon.com/WaterSafe-Water-Test-Kit-
Lead/dp/B000Q...](http://www.amazon.com/WaterSafe-Water-Test-Kit-
Lead/dp/B000Q6QWZA)

What kind of guarantees can you deliver that you're not yet another company
without accountability- this is important stuff, and accountability for
correctness is kind of a big deal.

The array of brands offering home test kits on amazon is incredible. I don't
know _any_ of them, and I don't know their reliability; nor do I know enough
about this space to select the correct one. How do you differentiate yourself?

~~~
personjerry
This seems to test water rather than dust.

~~~
jrussino
3M sells these lead test swabs for surfaces:
[http://amzn.com/B009NQNL0I](http://amzn.com/B009NQNL0I)

Once again, not exactly "analyzing your dust" but I think this is the current
consumer-grade solution to the problem of "are there dangerous levels of lead
in my wall paint/ceramics/etc?"

------
davidw
I'd look into/think about: what happens when the kit does not detect something
that then causes harm to someone.

Is that likely? Could it happen? What might happen legally?

I'd likely consider buying something like that, though, if it were cheap.

Something that would be positive: testing for 'unknown unknowns' \- people are
becoming more conscious of things like radon, but if this test were likely to
pick up a wide range of random stuff, it'd be more useful.

~~~
pavel_lishin
If it's an unknown, how do you test for it?

~~~
davidw
I mean that it's something most people might not think to test for, not truly
unknown.

------
abakker
I would use this service regularly. I would recommend it to everyone, and I
would be deeply interested in the results. I am a woodworker and do a fair
amount of work with found materials. If simple toxin tests were available I
would love to be able to regularly run test on material dust that I work with
(MDF, hardwoods, other sheet good material).

I also live in SF, in an older home. I would love to know what kind of stuff
comes out of our aging carpets - how much of the dust that I vacuum up _is_
the carpet. what is the average makeup of the dust over time, i.e. is the dust
changing to include more mold? Less? are my cleaning routines helping?

I have a mold allergy, detecting mold spores would be really good. Existing
tests are not great, and not user friendly.

Companies like Zillow might also be good recommendation engines, since most
people buying a house probably want to know the answer to these questions.

------
dman
This sounds like a great idea, here are some thoughts about it that you could
use to fine tune the pitch

1\. For people who use some kind of a cleaning service, the cleaners usually
bring their own vacuum cleaner. In this case the owner might be unable to send
you the dust. Would be interesting to look into what fraction of your target
audience falls under this category.

2\. Would be nice if the service took the vacuum model number and sent out a
box with a vacuum bag every n months, where the user could take their used
vacuum bag put it in the box and mail it back, and use the new bag in the
vacuum.

3\. Could this be refactored into some kind of device that one could fit into
the vacuum? This way there would be no headache of mailing bags out.

4\. Whats the legality of sending out bags containing potential amounts of
asbestos / toxins etc?

~~~
sdrothrock
> 1\. For people who use some kind of a cleaning service, the cleaners usually
> bring their own vacuum cleaner. In this case the owner might be unable to
> send you the dust. Would be interesting to look into what fraction of your
> target audience falls under this category.

This could actually be a feature. Sell to the CLEANING services, have them
offer your service as an add-on package so that people who have their
apartments cleaned (e.g. people with disposable income) can find out what
exactly is being cleaned up and what additional measures may be needed.

~~~
dman
That could work.

------
euroclydon
The problem with home environment testing is the expense of implementing the
mitigations. That doesn't mean this business idea isn't great, but a nice
twist to the website would be to acknowledge this hard reality up front.

You could have a graphic of a home, all kinds of UI inputs:

* SQ FT

* Geographic location

* Flooring type

* etc...

Then a list of potential problems. The user starts to enable the problems they
may have, and a Turbo Tax money ticker starts rolling. Then they adjust
sliders for mitigation options. More money counter ticking.

If the cost if too high, sure I might not even order the test. But the sale
would be consultative from the beginning, rather than the typical alarming
approach.

------
buss
What experience do you have building out a lab? Can you make this work by
sending the samples to an outside lab until you have traction?

How much do you know about this industry? Are there regulations you need to
meet? Who are the established big players, why aren't they doing this?

How are you going to do this better than anyone else?

How will you find customers?

~~~
hagope
@nuna has extensive lab experience and just as importantly, managing the vast
amounts of data that labs produce...initially we would partner with a lab
until there is a need to do it in house

------
GFK_of_xmaspast
How would you compete with things like [http://www.amazon.com/Asbestos-Test-
Includes-Postage-Fees/dp...](http://www.amazon.com/Asbestos-Test-Includes-
Postage-Fees/dp/B008J3ZK8M) and [http://www.homedepot.com/p/LABTECH-H2O-OK-
Plus-Complete-Wate...](http://www.homedepot.com/p/LABTECH-H2O-OK-Plus-
Complete-Water-Analysis-Kit-LT5015-1/205540501)

~~~
pavel_lishin
I assume that OP's service would test for more than just one thing.

~~~
GFK_of_xmaspast
From the Home Depot description:

The H2O OK Plus Complete Water Analysis Kit is the most complete way to ensure
your drinking water is safe and free of 13 water conditions and contaminants
including bacteria, pesticides and lead, a total of 23 tests. This complete,
easy to use kit provides all containers needed. It gives the user instant
results. Included 2 tests each for total chlorine, total hardness, iron, pH,
total alkalinity, copper, nitrates and nitrites; 1-test each for lead, total
coliform bacteria and pesticides with detailed instructions to test for iron
bacteria and hydrogen sulfide

------
dmlorenzetti
You might consider leveraging the data science component to help target the
testing. For example, based on location, house age, construction type
(basement/slab/etc.), run the numbers and balance the risk of exposure against
the cost of a test. Then recommend "For your house, lead in the ground soil
and asbestos in the shingles are the highest risk."

See, for example, this (unfortunately now defunct) radon risk website:
[http://www.columbia.edu/cu/pr/00/01/radon.html](http://www.columbia.edu/cu/pr/00/01/radon.html)

Data science might also help you recommend where to sample.

Trouble with all this, of course, is collecting enough data to start making
useful recommendations.

------
logicallee
Excellent idea. You sold me by the second or third sentence.

Ignore anything you read from anyone else here: put it up and start making
sales. Today.

Go go go go go.

~~~
hluska
I second this - I would buy this today if I could.

~~~
logfromblammo
This would likely sell even if it had no practical utility. The actual product
is a neutral-party validation of someone's life choices.

Did I make a huge and expensive mistake in deciding to buy this house? Here's
$50. Be honest.

No. Your house is not going to kill you, your kids, or your pets, within 99.6%
certainty.

Awesome. Best $50 I ever spent.

~~~
hagope
I would never want to build a product or service just to collect people's
money with false claims. This idea would have to be highly valuable and
affordable for many people in order to be successful.

~~~
logfromblammo
That's just it. They _are not_ false claims. You're doing actual testing for
actual home health hazards.

But the sort of person who would buy your testing service is also the sort of
person that does not buy houses that typically have such hazards in them. You
are mostly going to be validating subjective emotional impressions with
objective empirical evidence. It's a very powerful feeling to have someone
else prove without a doubt that your gut feeling was correct.

For a small minority, you will actually be identifying real household dangers,
so it's a win-win business.

------
lbredeso
I love this idea and really want you to find a way to succeed, but certain
aspects of this idea have risks you need to weigh.

I can only comment on lead, because I've had home lead testing done by a
professional. The worry I have with lead is that encouraging vacuuming for
sample collection could conceivably cause lead contamination to spread. We
were told by our tester that if we attempted to clean problem areas ourselves,
to only use water and disposable rags to avoid spreading lead dust.

Our lead tester used an XRF analyzer (these devices are expensive), which uses
X-rays and requires no dust sampling. He could simply point it anywhere and
see precisely where all the lead was.

I wonder if it would be feasible to include a packet of special wipes instead
of a single dust vial. Then users could individually wipe and label by room,
and ship each wipe in a separate, sealed, labeled, plastic envelope. This
could solve any dust contamination issues, but I suppose it's possibly harder
to test for contaminants from a wipe than a vial.

------
nradov
Will a single vial of vacuum dust be representative of a whole dwelling? Will
you be able to detect mold spores and other airborne contaminants which cause
respiratory problems? It might be tough to get a good sample vacuum dust into
a small vial in homes where the majority of vacuum canister contents consists
of pet hair.

~~~
mmagin
To expand on this, are there good models for translating concentrations of
toxic substances in vacuum cleaner dust into actual exposure of people who
live or work in those spaces? It seems like it would be a lot easier to get
people scared (or alternately complacent) than to offer lay-persons useful
information.

------
vblord
I would buy this right now if you had it. Hurry up please :-)

------
dzink
When we moved into a new house we noticed the air ducts were spewing out
strange particles. I called around to see if there is an agency that could
test if it's dangerous and the short answer was "we'd only test if we know
what we're looking for". If you price this reasonably ($100 or less) and are
able to test for a range of substances, I would buy your product in a
heartbeat. Don't listen to the nay-sayers, launch a test kit with a list of
things you're checking for and see how the market responds. You can try the
home buyers / home owners / parents markets, as well as restaurants,
hospitals, you name it.

------
jjallen
Also shouldn't home inspections when purchasing warn about asbestos and others
similar risks? I suppose many people rent and the landlords may know or not
care.

This seems like a service business and not necessarily a startup. But on
second thought, maybe there's a hardware device that could test everything
wherever you went: air and water. Perhaps even you could scrape a chip of
paint into it. Now that's something I would strongly consider buying. You
could take it when traveling to ensure there are pollutants in your water. As
a (hopefully) future parent, I worry about my kids being exposed to even
minute amounts of lead.

------
KerryJones
I love this idea! What would be the turn-around time? I.e., I sign up, you
send me a vial, I send it back, you test it, I get results -- from start to
finish, how long do you think it will take?

Also, do you have a potential cost in mind?

------
kumarski
Is this one of those incidentaloma things or are a lot of people actually
living very toxic lives?

When you did tests on 100 people's houses, were they surprised by the results
enough to pay you for more data?

There's enough fear around this kind of thing, but is there actually anything
to fear once you look at the lay of the land of people's homes? (Similar to
vitamin analogy... very few first worlders have vitamin deficiency, but
there's entire vitamin aisles at the store)

------
bargl
I live in a area where Lead based paint is an assumption, and radon is a
massive issue. The cost of getting work done is tremendous so I'd rather do it
myself.

How can this help me know what work I can DIY and what work is safer to hire
out to someone who is an expert. Sure I can pay someone 2x as much to work on
my kitchen but what is the relative risk to my health due to lead paint. It'd
be nice if I could start a project and have sampling on a daily basis similar
to what rad techs or a metric of information on how much lead is in the air as
I'm working.

------
pmtarantino
What if it gives positive? Do you help me in finding a solution?

~~~
thecolorblue
A follow up to this, what stance will you be taking on following up with a
positive test? My experience has been, there is a lot of conflicting
information out there. Would you suggest removing the problem? Sealing? Ignore
the problem? What can be done by the home owner and what can be done by a
professional?

------
betadreamer
This is a great idea. I would definitely try it out.

I'm pretty sure all parents have this concern especially when the doctor asks
whether our place have lead and have no idea how to answer them. This is
especially the case in the Bay Area where houses are old and is within the
time frame of lead paint.

Several concerns here though. How hard is it to test for these things and how
much would you charge the customer? Usually lab work are expensive and might
not be within the price range.

------
tedmiston
A friend that went through the R/GA Techstars '15 batch with my startup is
solving a related problem of home air quality monitoring.

You may find their approach interesting or if nothing else it's similar
validation.

Awair (previously Bitfinder) - [https://getawair.com/](https://getawair.com/)

------
oneplusone
I have actually been looking for something like this, but I am more concerned
about mould. Would that show up in a test like this? Our washroom has mould
growing which we keep fighting back with bleach, but I would love to know what
kind it is and if it is dangerous. Could this work for such a use case?

The tests that I did find were bloody expensive (300$+) and had to be done one
per room. Too much for us.

~~~
abakker
FWIW, borax will likely help you combat mold regrowth more effectively than
bleach. Another trick here is to constantly use borax on laundry like towels
which tend to carry mold from being hung up wet. Finally, add a strong borax
solution to a carpet cleaner/washer and do all the carpets in your house. This
has REALLY helped me deal with mold in our house. Since starting this regime,
old coffee grounds in the compost bin that used to grow mold in a day or so no
longer grow mold, even after a week (this was a test, not a typical situation
for my house).

------
jjallen
For buildings that are younger, say sixty years old or less, I'm way more
concerned with water quality and air quality coming in from outside that is
guaranteed to have pollutants.

When I lived in SF in an 1930s building I ordered a lead testing kit for the
water and thankfully found none.

------
jacalata
>haven’t been able to validate that our home is safe to live in.

Why should anyone believe that you'll just figure all this out later after
you're given money? You haven't even been motivated enough to solve this
problem manually for yourself yet.

~~~
hagope
this isn't a software hack that I can prototype in a weekend, validating that
this idea is feasible and has a market would take resources

------
jqm
I think it's a great idea. Not just for homes but other sites as well.

------
jamespitts
It would be valuable to establish a track record for a home that might be sold
in the future, or perhaps during the sales process a home could be sampled by
a certified home inspector.

~~~
solomone
My guess is in general the Real Estate market doesn't want this. What happens
if it tests positive for something? Do you start tearing down all the walls
until you find the issue? Suddenly the house is unsellable and a huge money
pit for the seller or new buyer.

------
unclebucknasty
I would use a service to test food, supplements and prescription drugs
(especially generics). I'd be interested in quantity of active ingredients, as
well as any contaminants.

------
pjlegato
The technical and product side sound like a good idea, in general.

How will you acquire customers for this, in a marketing sense?

------
maxerickson
What will you do differently than existing test labs that accept samples from
the public?

------
inspectordan
How would the dust testing results help in the formulation of an action plan?

~~~
hagope
One way would be to refer the customer to a specialist for removal of whatever
agent is found.

------
vram22
> fill a vile

Did you mean: fill a vial?

~~~
vram22
Wow, pretty negative to downvote for what is a genuine, helpfully meant,
correction to a likely misspelling - that obscures the OP's meaning. And yes,
I've seen the HN guidelines. Just because someone wrote them doesn't make them
right.

~~~
dang
We fixed the typo above.

Please don't go on about getting downvoted in HN comments—and especially not
in Apply HN threads, where you're basically scribbling on someone's
application.

~~~
vram22
> We fixed the typo above.

After I pointed it out, right?

Which means you agreed with my observation on the spelling.

I don't expect or want thanks, but negativity ...

~~~
dang
The spelling correction was fine, if minor; all this other stuff is badly off
topic.

------
kelvin0
Almost looks like Theranos is branching out (pivot?:-).

