
Ask HN: Friendly Cities? - benched
HN seems like a community where people get around quite a bit. I&#x27;m looking for opinions on friendly cities. First a few points to try to frame what I&#x27;m asking:<p>1. I&#x27;m not looking for &quot;people are people&quot;. I&#x27;ve lived in Boston and Seattle, and in my opinion you&#x27;d have to be completely &#x27;deaf&#x27; not to feel the difference. My question both assumes, and insists, that people act differently in different locales.<p>2. Same for &quot;people respond to you, so it&#x27;s all you, man&quot;. That&#x27;s deep, but for the love of straightforwardness, I implore you to save those keystrokes. Again, if you think it&#x27;s all the same, I&#x27;m emphatically not addressing the question to you.<p>3. It would be great to hear from people who have lived in at least 2 cities &#x2F; places.<p>4. If you&#x27;re going to recommend someplace outside the US, hopefully it&#x27;s somewhere an english-speaking US citizen could reasonably get a work visa. That said, there&#x27;s no reason for me to hog this thread all for myself, so post away.<p>Thanks!
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socalnate1
I find people on the entire US west coast are generally very friendly on the
surface (likely to say hello, hold a door open, etc).

But it wasn't until I moved to the midwest (central Illinois) that I
understood how much more that was to it than that. Our neighbors welcomed us
with a plate of cookies, a women my wife met at a cafe invited us to their
house for dinner that night. (We went, it was nice.) The willingness to truly
open up your life and home to a stranger was staggering for someone like me
who grew up in Southern California.

So, I think the answer to your question depends on whether you just want
pleasant strangers or hope to find something very different.

~~~
benched
I hear you. I've lived in Seattle for 8 years, and my impression is that
people here are _professional_. They say polite things. Even friends I've
known for many years talk to me like they're composing a formal letter. I had
a girlfriend that talked to me like she was conducting a business meeting. I
realize some of this might have to do with my circles (mostly professionals,
duh), but even in more diverse groups here I get the same impression. There's
no real connection beyond that surface niceness. It makes me want to get out
of here. Hence this thread.

~~~
robbiea
ahh, I just read this after I wrote my post. What you said above would bother
the hell out of me too! Try Austin. It's a much different place. Wait for the
football season to start and go to a UT football game.

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enthdegree
I moved from Albany/Corvallis (around Portland OR) to Raleigh, NC for school
(I go to NC State) and the difference is clearly perceptible. Everyone waves &
smiles to each other, people say 'bless your heart,' please & thank you etc.
In general they don't give off the impression that they want to minimize human
contact as much as possible like in Portland.

I guess it's worth mentioning that there is a lot of animosity here towards
people from NY and NJ (I have heard this from 3 people off the top of my
head), but everyone I've met from those parts is cool too...

~~~
cafard
Thirty-five or forty years ago there was not animosity toward New Yorkers in
Colorado, but it was definitely perceived as The Other, and people were really
quick to pick up on New York accents. I wonder whether the animosity you speak
of is felt or just a way of speaking.

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weisser
I'm currently on a cross country DIY tour (I'm about to write a second blog
post about it but here's the link anyways:
[http://housecallstour.com/](http://housecallstour.com/))

I've lived in New England (CT and MA) my entire life (I'm 23). I've lived in
the city (Boston) and in the suburbs (Guilford - a shoreline town near New
Haven). I'm a musician, writer and a startup guy so I have friends and
relationships in a variety of circles.

I'd say that the best way to experience the friendliest cities is by being a
respectful and inquisitive outsider.

On this tour I've done very little prior research before arriving in any town
outside of planning each day of travel to be 5 hours or less. I wanted to
intentionally go in with no expectations outside of what people on the road
have told me.

Everywhere I've gone I have managed to connect with complete strangers that
have become friends. I think the best thing you can do as a foreigner in a
city (I consider myself a foreigner even though I'm a United States citizen)
is to be open to whatever comes at you. Opting to sit with two strangers that
asked if I wanted to join them at a seafood spot in Shreveport, LA resulted in
me hanging out with them all day learning about the city, local politics,
craft beer, wildlife conservation/fracking and more. I could have just said,
"no thanks" and I would have wandered around town by myself all day.

So this is a bit of a ramble but I guess the point is that I set out on this
tour thinking I'd move to Austin afterwards. I still think I will but every
place I've passed through so far other than Baltimore (far too violent) has
been a place I would consider living - at least for a few months to try it
out. The best way to find a "friendly city" which by your definition just
seems to be one that you like the people in, is to travel all around and see
what resonates.

Happy to tell you more about my travels. julian at bundio.com

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nisa
If you looking for Germany: I enjoy Leipzig. It is a more friendly, more
leftist place than Berlin - full of subculture and artists. It's less
expensive than Berlin but also one of the poorest cities in Germany. However
I'm almost a native living there and while I doubt you'll have any problems
(met a few quite happy people from the US there - mostly artists) outside of
certain scenes in certain parts of the city it's probably not as exciting.

~~~
sn0v
Would you have to be fluent in German to get a work visa?

~~~
playing_colours
No, you don't need German at all to get a work visa. There's BlueCard visa,
which basically requires a working contract with the salary above minimal
threshold ( EUR 47,600, for software developers - EUR 37,128 ) and a more or
less relevant degree. You can find a startup job without German - a lot of
them are in Berlin [0]). If you decide to stay in the country longer you would
like to learn German - for everyday use and to get permanent residence and
even citizenship earlier.

[0] [http://berlinstartupjobs.com/](http://berlinstartupjobs.com/)

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matthewmcg
There was some reasearch that ranked midwestern states highest on a measure of
"agreeableness".
[http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB122211987961064719?mg=...](http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB122211987961064719?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB122211987961064719.html#project%3DPERSONALITY08%26articleTabs%3Dinteractive)

See also
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_nice](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_nice)

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AnimalMuppet
Maybe Denver/Boulder.

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invalidOrTaken
(10 Happiest states, according to Gallup 2012 Well-Being index, from happiest
to least happy)

Hawaii Colorado Minnesota Utah Vermont Nebraska Montana New Hampshire Iowa
Massachusetts

Of those, I've lived in Utah, Nebraska, and Iowa, and loved them all.
Intelligently of me, I now live in SFBA.

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MrZongle2
What's "friendly" for you may be a non-issue for somebody else.

What constitutes "friendly" for you, and how might the answers here be of
benefit to similar people?

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jspiros
What are you looking for in a city, besides friendly people?

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kevinrpope
I found Sydney to be extremely friendly (and Australia in general). Midwest US
is also quite friendly.

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robbiea
I've travelled quite a bit because of my previous IT Consulting job and I
basically "lived" in one place for 6 months at a time.

I've also spent time in Seattle and Denver so I'll explain those just so you
can compare you vs. me.

1) Chicago - Born and raised here. It's what you expect from a Big midwestern
city. We're nice, but will cut you off on the road without thinking twice.
Summer is when we're the nicest and most outgoing, Winter is essentially a
black hole where you keep in touch with your existing friends and stay in. But
overall, I've met a lot of nice and supporting people in chicago.

2) New York / New Jersey - Lived here for a year. It's a different vibe all
together. Of course there are a lot of nice people, but expectations for you
to be on your own and figure it out on yourself is much bigger here.

3) Seattle - I forget which suburban city it was (maybe kirkland) where there
are pedestrian crossing flags to cross 4 lane streets. If that doesn't tell
you what kind of city seattle suburbs are, then I'm not sure what else I can
tell you. Extremely nice people, can't merge on the highway for the live of
them and the only place where everyone drives the speed limit normally. In the
end, really nice people but Im not an outdoor person and the cloudiness was
actually affecting me.

4) Denver - nice outdoor people. That's all I can really say. I enjoyed denver
and the people were always nice to me.

5) SF - A hectic place where the cab drivers know more about technology
startups than you do. A wide variety of people where people pay too much to
live in a city. Overall, nice people though but esp in the tech community an
expectation that you must be part of a growing tech company to be successful.

6) Austin - Man, I do love this place. I can't stand houston or Dallas. I
would rather live in Alaska then live in houston or dallas (mainly because of
city layout). But Austin is a very nice city with people who are willing to
help you. They still have a little of a texas attitude that everything is
bigger in texas but an extremely friendly city. If you can't find friendly
people in austin you are doing something wrong. These texans are extremely
nice and plus you have a lot of converts from other cities that came here for
the tech.

7) Los Angeles - I haven't been there for too long, but if you are looking for
friendly I'm going to say this isn't your place. The roads aren't friendly and
it ruins the experience for me.

8) Manchester, UK - I spent 6 months here and people call it a "rough place",
but I enjoyed every second of it. If you're american it makes everything that
much easier. You stick out and people love talking to anyone with an american
accent.

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georgebonnr
Austin?

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nmc
Frenchman here, I have lived in various French cities, and currently live in
Amsterdam, The Netherlands.

* * *

 _Amsterdam, NL_

I strongly recommend Amsterdam, and most reasons presumably also apply to
other Dutch cities:

\- People are very friendly and polite, and often they will spontaneously
offer help. Sometimes, this is so acute that it becomes kind of a facade, and
may hide the true personality of some people. But overall it makes them seem
very friendly; even policemen are always really nice and understanding.

\- People are very pragmatic and open-minded: they will not care about any
quirks or weird habits, unless it really bothers them. They usually do not let
traditions or beliefs hold them back, most of them are very reasonable people.

\- You _do not need_ to speak Dutch. Everybody speaks English — even kids!
(For a Frenchman, this is impressive.) If you already speak English and
German, learning basic Dutch will be easy anyway.

\- Most people deeply care for the environment: there is a lot of nature, and
of course the famous bikes — the whole country is flat anyway.

\- Specific to Amsterdam: only half of the population is Dutch, which makes it
a crazy melting pot. In general, both the law and the people are very friendly
to foreigners.

* * *

 _Paris, FR_

Paris is a lot bigger than Amsterdam (although not much bigger than Boston),
and is very specific compared to other (especially southern) French cities.

\- There is an incredible cultural activity and unique artistic collections, a
shitload of museums, theaters, concert halls... There is always an interesting
exhibition somewhere, you will never have enough time to attend everything.

\- The economy is prolific and diverse: you can find a job in pretty much any
sector — provided you are good enough. Paris is home of many startups and
other dynamic small companies.

\- It is the home of a refined lifestyle: good wine in bars, many excellent
restaurants, specialized stores for whatever food/drink from anywhere in the
world.

\- The city itself is utterly beautiful: an aesthetic equilibrium of many
architectural styles, uncountable monuments and magnificent buildings. The
city is more than two thousand years old (though it was a lot smaller back
then), and you can feel it when you walk on the old cobblestones.

However, it has its downsides:

\- Not that many people speak a good English. Really. You will have to live
with it.

\- People can be polite I you show curtesy yourself, but they can also be
quite rude if you are unlucky. Someone telling you they are too busy to help
you find some direction is not surprising there.

\- Public transportation is pretty good (except when you go to the suburbs),
but driving (and parking!) is a nightmare. There are nine hills in Paris, so
biking will take some strength — and some nerve, because people do not drive
nicely.

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rfnslyr
Do not come to Toronto. Barcelona for me was the friendliest city. I sat down
near the beach district (don't remember what it was called) and played guitar
with a bunch of randoms and smoked joints while police strolled by and asked
us how we were doing. It was surreal. Warm, beautiful, safe, the women in
Barcelona are out of this world.

~~~
temporary2k43rA
Let me offer a counterpoint on Barcelona, aside from the fact that it would be
hard for you to get a visa or work in a company there without actually
speaking at least Spanish, if not Catalan. Or find a company you would want to
work for. Or the fact that the economy there is shit, despite being among the
best in Spain.

1\. The catalans are known all over Spain for being cold people. I don't mean
cold as in mean, as they are quite nice, but they keep to themselves. You will
not get an open arms welcome from the locals. Much like the French, it takes a
long time to be welcomed as a true friend by the people there.

2\. While Barcelona has tons of expats (Brits, Italians, French, Andalucians),
skater kids, and an all around nice "hipster" subcultures, the truth is very
few people ever really stay in Barcelona. You will have a very hard time
making real long term friends. You can have a ton of fun for a short while,
but not for the long haul.

Take it from a guy whose talked to literally hundreds of people who came to
visit BCN for a short time (less than a year) and thought it was paradise. It
really isn't. It could be if the economy was better, if there was more
integration of outsiders and locals, if you would wait a decade or four, but
that just isn't the Barcelona that exists now. Barcelona is built around
tourism, and to tourists it's a paradise. But like everything built on
tourism, it's a transient facade. If you want to have a blast for a few
months, Barcelona might be your place, but not for anything serious.

~~~
User8712
The only Catalans I ever met were extremely open and welcoming. I knew them
all for less than an hour, and they were all hugs and kisses, great company,
and said their couch is always available if I'm in Barcelona and need a place
to stay. You might be right, maybe they're generally more cold, but my
experience was the opposite, so I had to add it for balance.

