

Vietnam Internet restrictions come into effect - naithemilkman
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-23920541

======
alextingle
> Last month the US embassy in Hanoi said it was "deeply concerned by the
> decree's provisions", arguing that "fundamental freedoms apply online just
> as they do offline".

My hypocrisy-meter just broke.

~~~
comex
Considering that the US has zero speech-related internet censorship, and the
comparison is to a law banning sharing any news articles online and publishing
any material opposing the government, I'd say the US still has a valid
complaint here.

~~~
jivatmanx
Vietnam is a communist tyranny that simply applying existing laws and policies
to a new medium, so this isn't really a change.

Economists prefer percentages to absolutes, and trends to isolated incidents.
9/11 has not only halted the long trend towards increasing freedom, but began
a new and troubling trend of growing tyranny.

Perhaps the U.S. isn't overtly attacking press freedom, but the U.K. is,
informs the U.S. before every incident, and the U.S. couldn't be happier.

~~~
jawngee
Tyranny is a bit overstated.

~~~
wyager
Said people in every historical state that was slowly sliding towards
despotism.

~~~
mpyne
But on the other hand, making the U.S. congruent to every despotic state tends
to cheapen the sacrifice of those who actually had to _live_ (and die) under
those despots, instead of sipping a venti espresso at Starbucks while typing
away on their MacBook Pro.

~~~
veidr
Some people sip espressos in North Korea, too.

Meanwhile, we (Americans) have more people living in cages than North Korea,
China, Iran, and Vietnam combined. Most of them citizens, incarcerated after
being subjected to extremely dubious trials for crimes related to drugs -- and
whoops, look at today's latest headline: _Drug Agents Use Vast Phone Trove
Eclipsing N.S.A.’s_

Relatively free states slide morph into corrupt police states precisely when
the people sipping coffee with their luxury computers refuse to notice it
happening.

~~~
mpyne
> Relatively free states slide morph into corrupt police states precisely when
> the people sipping coffee with their luxury computers refuse to notice it

That's... at least mildly pretentious. What social ills are the brave bands of
roving latté-sippers going to save the country from next? Anyways, history has
shown that despots don't have to care about what the intelligentsia thinks.

~~~
veidr
Urrrgh, for fuck's sake: are you gonna make me trot out the 'First they came
for the...' cliché (which like all good clichés is totally on point)?

Obviously, despots don't care what the intelligentsia or anybody else with <
despot power thinks. But in a high-functioning democracy, it is only through
the apathy or willful ignorance (or freaky racism / nationalism) of the
citizenry that you get despots in the first place. We're not there yet, but
are obviously on that path.

I assume you're caucasian and rarely have your luxury car searched at traffic
stops, or your electronic devices searched at border crossings? Me too. Yay
for us.

~~~
mpyne
> are you gonna make me trot out the 'First they came for the...' cliché
> (which like all good clichés is totally on point)?

And also like any good cliché, says more than it really says. For instance,
that there is _no_ permissible reason for government to go after anyone since
it logically follows that if we let government go after Party A, they are that
much closer to going after Party B.

For that reason, instead of living my life by clichés, I try to evaluate each
situation on its own merits.

> I assume you're caucasian and rarely have your luxury car searched at
> traffic stops, or your electronic devices searched at border crossings?

Caucasian, yes.

'Luxury' car, no. Unless the MP3 player is a luxury nowadays. It doesn't get
searched at traffic stops, but that is probably because I've not run across a
traffic checkpoint in years.

Maybe I should go visit the despotic America though, so that I can find out
what a traffic stop is like? Where would I find that, as I've been all over
the East Coast and have had no success yet in finding it.

------
UncleHo
I'm in Hanoi. Tried to click on the link. Blocked. BBC.com totally blocked
here.

~~~
jawngee
I'm in Saigon. Use 8.8.8.8 for your DNS, unless you are accessing via 3G.

I use unblock-us.com for my home network.

Honestly, I don't see how they plan on enforcing this except for having a look
see at already well known dissident bloggers.

And, frankly, I think this 9X generation, which seems to be drowning in
unprecedented narcissim will flip this whole place on its head when they get a
bit older. Vietnam will be an even more interesting place than it is now when
that comes to pass.

~~~
state
Had to look up the "9X generation". For those interested:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9X_Generation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9X_Generation)

~~~
jawngee
There's a few things going on here that I think are going to have serious
influence on the next 10 years.

First, the 9X kids, as I mentioned before, want what the rest of the world
already has. They've had a taste and I don't think they are willing to
concede.

Second, a lot of Viet Kieu (Vietnamese from abroad) are returning and they
have a lot of money. They're going to also want to maintain some semblance of
what they've grown accustomed to in Canada, US and Australia. If there is
anything I've learned from living here, money can buy almost everything.

The rest of SE Asia is growing at a faster rate. Vietnam is only really
beating Indonesia.

I think what most people don't get is that communism here doesn't mean what
you probably think it does. Capitalism is huge here and it's only going to get
bigger. So, one or the other is going to have to give.

Finally, this decree is kind of toothless. They have neither the money or the
knowledge on implementing it. Their idea of blocking facebook was (Facebook is
generally available anywhere now) to block some DNS entries.

~~~
shirkey
By what measure is Vietnam beating Indonesia?

~~~
jawngee
Sorry I was really tired when I wrote that, I meant Cambodia not Indonesia.

------
noubadi
What's wrong with national security? At least as an Vietnamese I don't want
Arab Spring comes to our country.

~~~
TheAnimus
Is it security to prevent people to be able to discuss what is being done by
the government?

Most people who have that freedom do not feel insecure.

Most people who have the freedom to critique their government feel insecure at
the idea of having that ability limited in any way.

It would be interesting to hear the argument, why is this law a good thing for
the Vietnamese people?

~~~
noubadi
The thing is, BBC or other foreign media always push things like this in a way
that Vietnam Government is against "human rights", and "freedom"... From my
point of view, they just want to attack Vietnam Government and make it look
bad, by telling half-truth. This is not the first time. My English is not good
enough to give you a clear understanding about that law, but it's not about
"prevent people to discuss what is being done by the government". The exact
word could be more close to "bring down the government", and that I think no
government in the world let someone do that "in freedom". I dont say Vietnam
Gov is good, but at least they are not that bad to bring down right now. All
the people that "oppose" Vietnam Gov always close to "bring down", and tell
half-truth or lying, and related to foreign countries. So I am fine with that
part of the law. The other parts are about management, providing and using
Internet services and information.

