
If Google bows to China’s censorship, it will put tech giant on a slippery slope - ilamont
https://www.cjr.org/the_new_gatekeepers/google-china-censorship.php
======
sarabande
What's the slippery slope here? According to the article:

> if [Google] accedes to the Chinese government’s demands, it will make it
> easier for others to do so, and will also embolden other totalitarian states
> to ask for their own custom censorship services from Google and other tech
> giants.

I think this is all premised on the belief that American corporations somehow
have the moral obligation (and right) to change the way things in a different
country work.

China has its own functioning tech ecosystem, so entrant companies need to
play by its rules if they want to make a profit there. Period.

Even if I appreciate Western morality, I don't see reasons for outrage or
bemoaning slippery slopes.

~~~
whatyoucantsay
> _I think this is all premised on the belief that American corporations
> somehow have the moral obligation (and right) to change the way things in a
> different country work._

> _China has its own functioning tech ecosystem, so entrant companies need to
> play by its rules if they want to make a profit there. Period._

Nazi Germany also had "its own functioning tech ecosystem". So did Stalin and
Mao's even more murderous regimes.

Moral obligations don't stop at borders.

~~~
sarabande
Straight to Godwin's law (in this case, I think it's germane).

My argument is about American corporations imposing morality (or thinking they
can). Corporations' main motivation is profit, not improving human rights.
Google doesn't go to China with the primary intention of improving human
rights, rather to make a profit from Chinese citizens.

Google would have to pay Chinese taxes to operate there, their presence puts
money into the hands of the CCP, an entity the author of the article doesn't
approve of. Google has no leverage: China has its own perfectly capable search
engine[s].

So as I see it, the options are:

1\. American corporation enters China, plays by rules, causes no political
change.

2\. American corporation doesn't enter China. Local Chinese companies fill the
void, causing no political change.

In neither case is any political change effected. If the bemoaning comes from
the point of view of "well Google _could_ have changed something," I think
that's naïve and I'd like to see evidence of this happening successfully

If it comes from the perspective of "Google is capitulating or funding a
government that I as the author/Westerners don't support in general", then
that's an argument involving moral absolutism, which is a longer debate.

If you have time, I'd like to hear your thoughts on what you think Google
should be doing.

~~~
heavenlyblue
But by entering the Chinese market, Google allows itself to be influenced by
the requirements of The Party. At this point the main motivation of profit can
be turned into whatever The Party wants outside China.

------
badrabbit
If you do business you have to cooperate with the government and the law of
that land. It is up to the people of that country to change their laws and
government.

I would be much more concerned if google gets an exception. In the west
bigcorp gets their lobbyist army (google is #1) to get past laws and the
people's will. I hope China won't bow down to Google. America is operated by
corporations, some countries are not.

~~~
naiveai
China is an authoritarian state. China isn't going to bow down to Google. The
honorable, and the correct, thing for Google to do is not operate in China,
but of course they aren't going to do that.

~~~
nikitoz
If Chinese people are fine with their government and great firewall, why
should we or Google care.

~~~
rdlecler1
Because China will have leverage over Google and it has used that leverage in
the past to affect countries/people outside of China.

~~~
bwilli123
Ummm, is that not what another large powerful country does? Or going back to
the Romans, did? Isn't that the whole point of being large and powerful?

~~~
ionised
So you're not a fan of laws then? Just might?

------
ksec
When will the lesson be learned?

When will the lesson be learned?

How many more dictators must be wooed, appeased - good God, given immense
privileges - before we learn?

YOU CANNOT REASON WITH A TIGER WHEN YOUR HEAD IS IN ITS MOUTH.

~~~
vfulco2
But, but, but, the Silly Valley Boys are all geniuses. Surely the other side
will appeal to logic. ;-)

~~~
sctb
Please stick to substantive posts here.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

------
berbec
Sadly, with what we know of ISPs and tech companies running fiber straight to
Fort Meade, even giving them a room in the data center [1], I don't see this
as surprising. Google might have been thinking of this when they altered their
motto. [2]

1:
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A)
2: [https://gizmodo.com/google-removes-nearly-all-mentions-of-
do...](https://gizmodo.com/google-removes-nearly-all-mentions-of-dont-be-evil-
from-1826153393)

------
writepub
But all the other major, and most minor companies have already acquiesced.
That's how one's allowed to do business in China, and China is a market one
cannot ignore.

------
ohiovr
When google gets big enough in China they will be subject to blackmail by the
chinese government when users (anywhere really) cause an upset for China's
relations like a single user affirming the sovernty of Taiwan, or critisizing
the mainland. They will chill free speech in this way.

------
LaSombra
Apple readily hand over the keys to their datacenters, why can't Google bend
as well?

