
Gluglug X60 Laptop now certified to Respect Your Freedom  - tjr
http://www.fsf.org/news/gluglug-x60-laptop-now-certified-to-respect-your-freedom
======
bri3d
The RYF guidelines are interesting:
[http://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/endorsement/criteria](http://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/endorsement/criteria)
.

They require the BIOS / core boot firmware to be open but allow closed
peripheral firmware and CPU microcode.

This is a natural allowance as otherwise no modern computer would ever be
certifiable, but it's interesting in that it doesn't require the firmware for
wired-in peripherals like webcams or wireless chipsets to be open.

~~~
csmuk
I'm not sure it should be allowable.

WiFi firmware can in theory allow passive monitoring and forwarding of data.
This is because the WiFi card is a small self-contained embedded system.

The CPU microcode (and arguably architecture) is more difficult to modify but
it's possible that the microcode for an AES round opcode could be
intentionally flawed. Enough press is around not to have to explain this.

USB is the one I find interesting. Anything (webcam/keyboard/mouse) could
arbitrarily register itself as an HID device and inject data into your OS.

The whole systems architecture is a mess.

I'm not suggesting we go back to discrete wire-wrapped PDP11's but something
needs to be done by putting security and privacy first. That means starting
again as where we are isn't good.

~~~
bri3d
I do agree that it probably _shouldn 't_ be allowable; even minor pieces like
webcam firmware have proven very important (see the Apple webcam firmware with
no light story from a few days ago).

Plus without the requirement to release firmware for co-processors, some full
machines with the potential for DMA and all sorts of nefarious concepts can
exist that nobody even notices (SMC, WiFi, Bluetooth, "fan managers" and so
on).

With that being said no modern CPU vendor would even think about open-sourcing
their CPU microcode especially, so the FSF are stuck between a rock and a hard
place. With a true "every single thing open" requirement in place, the only
general purpose PC made in the last ten years or so that could hope to come
close to passing would be a Chinese MIPS laptop.

~~~
hackmiester
Can I get a link to that webcam firmware story? I read a little bit about it,
but I was looking for a more technical look into why it would be possible to
enable a camera with no LED.

I always thought the sensor power was connected also to the LED, to prevent
exactly that type of hackery.

~~~
jholman
bluekitten, who appears to be hellbanned for no reason at all, gave this link:

[http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-
switch/wp/2013/12/18...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-
switch/wp/2013/12/18/research-shows-how-macbook-webcams-can-spy-on-their-
users-without-warning/)

------
exarch
They're selling an ancient laptop at a premium because they installed
Coreboot. They haven't addressed any of the problems with proprietary
firmwares or backdoored chips.

RMS has been recommending the Loongson Lemote for a long time, which would
seem to be a much better choice. The Lemote's firmware and hardware is
essentially all open source, including its MIPS CPU.

~~~
sliverstorm
200 quid really isn't so bad, and the X60 was one of the best laptops of the
age.

 _And_ it includes a brand new battery and the docking station.

Hmm... I still have fond memories of my X61. This is actually kind of
tempting.

~~~
csmuk
Do it. I still use a T400 every day and have a T61 as a fallback. There's
nothing like them out there.

------
thisiswrong
Not related to the laptop: I like the retailer's site [1]. It's simple and
clean. But most importantly there are no 3rd party trackers, and they have
chosen not to use Google's surveillance code (Analytics) and instead they use
Piwik analytics - which is probably hosted on a server that they control.

[1] [http://shop.gluglug.org.uk/](http://shop.gluglug.org.uk/)

------
conductor
Do these laptops have hardware on/off switches for the webcam and the
microphone? If they don't, are there any such laptops? I couldn't find a
modern and powerful full HD laptop which has no integrated mic and webcam
(which I don't need).

~~~
mdip
That would be an excellent feature and years ago I had a laptop that had a
simple plastic sliding piece that would cover the camera lens. Later versions
eliminated this piece (it probably broke off too frequently).

I have taped a piece of aluminum foil over every webcam on my laptops/iMac
with a large piece of packing tape (making it possible to pull it aside when I
do rather frequent video conferences).

I get dismissed as _paranoid_ (or the next question that's asked is "what do
_you_ do in front of your computer!"). What they don't understand is that
years ago I wrote software for a building access kiosk that involved a one-way
video chat, followed with a photograph taken of the visitor. I used an open
source library for interacting with the camera. When video was running, the
light was on. I had the worst time getting the camera to take a picture, but
after a bit of tinkering (read: shooting bullets randomly), I had it working.
It was my coworker that noticed the light didn't come on when the picture was
being taken. I had done something wrong (so wrong that every few pictures, the
camera would stop working and wouldn't recover until the entire machine was
rebooted). Though I've been writing software professionally for twenty years
or so, I had never wrote code to interact with a web cam and yet had somehow
managed to stumble upon this entirely by accident. It gave me the willies, so
from that point forward, I covered my cameras with a bit of ugly aluminum
foil.

I've never really worried about the microphone, but it would be nice to have
some kind of hardware control to disable devices that can be used to record in
that manner.

~~~
fidotron
I've recently run into one where it's possible to make Android devices
recognize the faces of people in front of the device via the front facing
camera with no sign of this to the user. Someone has to actually start an app
(which needs camera access) and it is possible for it to be killed, but I too
did this entirely by accident and would now be super wary about it.

~~~
Crito
A few months ago I added a little tiny square of electrical tape over the
front-facing camera in my phone. I never have a reason to take pictures of
myself, so I'd rather that camera not exist at all.

~~~
gcb1
do that with all my laptops. specially work issued ones ridden with remote
access for IT.

a post it cut with just the glue part works fine, easy to replace and leaves
no marks.

------
redthrowaway
It's a nice gesture, but I fear they've missed their target market. Most of
the people who care about free software are programmers, and programmers need
things this laptop doesn't have, namely modern specs and a great screen. Cheap
is nice for toys, but not for the computer you use every day to do your job
and entertain yourself. This simply isn't a good enough laptop to do
everything you'll want to do with it, which means you won't use it all the
time, which means your freedom and privacy are compromised.

Give me a laptop that can actually _replace_ my MBP, instead of merely sit on
the shelf while I watch movies and surf the web, and we'll talk.

~~~
weland
I'm one of the programmers to whom this laptop is just perfect. Common
hardware that's well supported on almost any platform, good reliability,
excellent keyboard and, IIRC, a clit mouse, which I would prefer over the
fanciest of touchpads. And not just because it superficially looks like a
clit.

Most of my work revolves around programming devices with no more than a couple
of megabytes of RAM, most often with no more than a couple of kilobytes. A MBP
is far, far more powerful than what I need.

~~~
reirob
Fully agree, not to forget the screen ratio of 3:4 which cannot be found any-
more! This together with the excellent keyboard and the trackpoint are me is
THE criteria for a developper laptop.

Just ordered one ;)

~~~
weland
Aye, I don't get all this widescreen crap either.

~~~
redthrowaway
I far prefer to have half the screen devoted to my editor and the other to my
browser/docs/terminal/etc. Makes things way more convenient.

------
agumonkey
About coreboot, they brought support for ThinkPad x201 too :
[http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTU0NDY](http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTU0NDY)

see comments for some acer chromebook work too
([http://johnlewis.ie/](http://johnlewis.ie/))

------
tedunangst
Fine print: The X60 has a Core2 CPU with a variety of errata which require
proprietary microcode to fix (typically applied by the Lenovo BIOS).

~~~
JanezStupar
I had a T60 with Core Duo CPU.

AFAIK they were only sold for a couple of months.

~~~
keithpeter
I have an X60 that can't run a 64 bit Linux, as I found out when I tried to
boot the RHEL 7 beta installer. I'm assuming that is a Core Duo rather than a
Core Duo 2.

My sample is a Type 1706-CT0 with product ID 1706WB5 and it was manufactured
December 2006 (06/12 on the end of the serial number). Did I get 'lucky'?

~~~
JanezStupar
I don't think your issues regarding 64bit Linux have anything to do with CPU.

Mine ran x64 just fine on Ubuntu.

~~~
keithpeter
My particular X60 has an Intel T2400 Core Duo Mobile processor [1] and this
processor has a 32 bit width[2]. I picked an early model, and I decided to
pick one up of UK ebay days before finding the site mentioned in the OA!

[1] [http://www.cnet.com/laptops/lenovo-
thinkpad-x60-1706/4507-31...](http://www.cnet.com/laptops/lenovo-
thinkpad-x60-1706/4507-3121_7-31661428.html)

[2] [http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Core_Duo/Intel-
Core%20Duo%20T2...](http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Core_Duo/Intel-
Core%20Duo%20T2400%20LF80539GF0342M%20%28BX80539T2400%29.html)

~~~
JanezStupar
Oh, wow. I went and checked, my machine had T2600 CPU and indeed the whole
series is a 32bit architecture.

I know that these CPU's are supposedly dual Pentium M processors in single
package.

------
voltagex_
Might be worth reading
[http://www.coreboot.org/Board:lenovo/x60](http://www.coreboot.org/Board:lenovo/x60)
\- seems like there's still some rough edges on the BIOS replacement.

~~~
csmuk
The shipped BIOS is a little rough as well.

The T61 which is where my main experience lies has hardware whitelists for
WiFi cards and restricts the internal SATA port to basic SATA speeds rather
than SATA2 speeds which the chipset supports.

There are many hacked BIOSes (I use Middleton's BIOS) out there which fix this
though.

~~~
voltagex_
Argh. Lenovo are still doing this.

On my X1, it's impossible to boot from the SD card reader and only the
official ($$$) USB Ethernet adapter will allow PXE-boot.

------
davexunit
This is great news! Hopefully this will get the ball rolling so that more
modern hardware can be supported with fully free software.

------
ppereira
I purchased one of these machines running Trisquel. With an SSD it is quite
snappy and the IBM keyboard is fantastic. It was a pleasure to purchase from
Gluglug, although at the time I was restricted to paying via Paypal.

~~~
reirob
I just ordered one. Payment is still via Paypal.

------
tigerweeds
legendary build quality but ancient hardware.

~~~
agumonkey
I can testify for the sturdiness of these. And X60's aren't the most robust of
the pack. But I bang them once a week and yet no glitch. The platform is
ancient, a Haswell ULV will be twice as fast for less than 25% of the TDP,
with many added niceties (64bits, vt-*, a decent gpu, ...)

~~~
tigerweeds
I own a T400 and it saved my back twice when sliding on ice. After 5 years of
taking it everywhere, it looks like it was barely used. I love it, but damn...
a P8600 Core 2 Duo in 2013 is noticeably slow even in browsing.

------
pkamb
> Dvorak (UK) layout is also available.

Is this simply a rearrangement of the standard QWERTY keys? Or a "real" Dvorak
keyboard? Specifically, the nubs on [F] and [J] are always an impediment to
swapping keys.

~~~
Crito
I don't believe Lenovo has made Dvorak laptop keyboards themselves (last time
I looked for my T60p, I found nothing), so I _suspect_ they are talking about
a rearranged QWERTY that they can do during refurb.

------
transitionality
It's all very cyberpunk, building hardware designed to enable freedom for a
small resistance force, salvaged from megacorporation scraps.

I imagine RMS using one while wearing a leather trenchcoat and mirror shades.

------
everyone
Article is not good. They keep using the word 'free' as if it means 'open'.
Also why is there a picture of an IBM thinkpad? I can imagine the writer just
google image searching 'laptop' for this article.

~~~
intslack
>They keep using the word 'free' as if it means 'open'

You're joking, right? Is this your first encounter with the FSF?

