
No, Safari 14 does not block Google Analytics - TomAnthony
https://www.simoahava.com/analytics/no-safari-does-not-block-google-analytics/
======
saagarjha
> I'm disappointed that the Privacy Report has such clumsy wording. To use
> terms like block, prevent, and tracker can lead to confusion, as the
> aftermath of WWDC showed, unless they are clearly defined in the report
> itself.

Yeah, this part really needs some cleaning up. It's hard to explain exactly
how ITP works, but it is important to note that Safari is not trying to block
the tracker from loading but instead detect its ability to track you and take
appropriate action.

------
masswerk
This (the reports this article is answering to) is really a good example for
the state of information and information spread on the Web. It does not just
start with "fake news" and manipulative messages, it' really about this kind
of reporting, which is setting the standards – and it's mostly down-hill
beyond those outlets. (This isn't specific to any domain or topic.
Journalistic standards are mostly down to where they have been in the 1920s,
with most of the lessons learned forgotten.)

~~~
dx034
To be fair, I'd blame Apple more than people spreading it here. When I watched
the keynote I also immediately thought they block GA.

------
TomAnthony
The two articles that are discussed in this post have both been featured on HN
in the last 24 hours [1][2].

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23629918](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23629918)

[2]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23612140](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23612140)

~~~
dang
We've merged those.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23612140](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23612140)
is the thread.

------
risyachka
It should block sensitive data, but obviously not full service. If they start
blocking services who said yours won't be next? It's like google and blocking
websites when they want. You just can't do that because it's wrong in so many
ways.

You can't make a great product without analytics (in vast majority of cases).
It just should collect only required data for improving product, not marketing
purposes.

If you start blocking all analytics then expect that you will have to use
garbage products.

~~~
Nextgrid
> If you start blocking all analytics then expect that you will have to use
> garbage products.

The whole analytics/spyware era properly started in the last decade, and the
last decade is surprisingly also when most software started going to shit,
like Windows 10, iOS or even macOS.

I'm not convinced that analytics leads to _better_ software in any way, and
all the information I've got so far leads me to believe the opposite.

~~~
risyachka
The fact they went to shit has nothing to do with analytics. Analytics is just
a tool. Like any other it can be used for bad or for good. Just like a hammer.

~~~
mytherin
> The fact they went to shit has nothing to do with analytics.

Perhaps, perhaps not. Analytics can definitely guide developers along the
wrong path. A typical example is that it leads to simplification to cater to
80% of their userbase at the expense of the power users. After all, analytics
tells us all these extensive options are only used by 20% of the people, why
offer them at all?

But then the power users become frustrated and leave, and the remaining 80%
who were mostly beginners on their way to becoming power users now find that
the software lacks the in-depth options they needed later on. Then they don't
stick around either because you just gutted your own product.

I agree with you that analytics is a tool; it can be useful, but often it is
not and often it hurts more than it helps. I also claim that it is definitely
_not_ essential to modern software development.

~~~
Nextgrid
Analytics can also allow anyone to misrepresent the data in any way they want
in order to push their narrative, either deliberately or accidentally because
analytics don't show _everything_ and you might be making a worse decision in
the long-run based on those misguided insights.

"If you torture the data enough, it will confess to anything".

------
geerlingguy
Not much to contribute to the conversation (other than I would be happy if
something like Pi Hole were built into my computer directly), but I find it
interesting how frequently the top 5-10 stories on HN are basically top level
responses or refutations to stories that were in the top 5-10 earlier in the
day.

I have to admit that I ended up in this situation with one of my posts earlier
this year—I just find it interesting that it seems to be happening more
frequently lately.

~~~
nix23
No problem, just use unbound and a blocklist:

[https://www.tumfatig.net/20190405/blocking-ads-using-
unbound...](https://www.tumfatig.net/20190405/blocking-ads-using-unbound8-on-
openbsd/)

~~~
silon42
Is there an integration with firewall that would block outgoing IPs not
resolved by unbound DNS?

~~~
nix23
Just a question, why you want something like that?

And what do you mean by "SSL without proper hostname"?

------
m463
there is SO much stuff that safari doesn't block.

Get firefox + umatrix and just see how much stuff goes on.

~~~
toastal
I recently had to give up on uMatrix. Not only is it a bit of a hassle, but
things break in very bad ways. Where this is particularly problematic is with
CAPTCHA (not a fan). I've been detected as a bot many times and it takes a bit
to enable each little bit per detain (XHR, script, images, etc.), and by the
time you enable all the right stuff, you may be locked out. The last straw was
failing the CAPTCHA at Bill.com where I failed the CAPTCHA and was using a VPN
and got my account banned and couldn't get paid for a contract. I'm also going
to encourage people to not use their service as well, but this kinda thing
happens far too often with uMatrix.

~~~
jorvi
Using uBlock Origin in ‘medium’ mode (dynamic filtering turned on, static 3rd
party resources like images and css allowed) achieves much of the same safety
& privacy gains of uMatrix without sacrificing a ton of usability.

~~~
m463
I think you might take the opposite viewpoint that you can relax the settings
for umatrix, then fine-tune a particular site.

------
shawkinaw
Ironically: [https://ibb.co/NFvkbxw](https://ibb.co/NFvkbxw)

------
chickenlottie
> But for now, Google Analytics users don't need to worry about Safari

That’s too bad. Wish apple had the guts to stand up and do the right thing for
end-users.

~~~
dx034
I believe Google Analytics without enhanced tracking is a net benefit. The
information on how many users visit and how they use the site is incredibly
helpful. The problem with Google Analytics is that Google tracks are lot more
than they need to and use it for their own benefit as well. Safari seems to
mostly prevent that now.

~~~
Nextgrid
> Safari seems to mostly prevent that now.

[citation needed]

The IP address & user-agent combination alone is enough to track a home user
(whose IP doesn't change that often) with a high degree of accuracy, and even
more so if you happen to be logged into a Google account in another
tab/browser which will allow them to attribute any new IPs to you.

~~~
ec109685
The happened to be logged into google use case is blocked by safari since
third party cookies aren’t sent to google.

~~~
Nextgrid
I was saying that being logged-in in one tab would let Google know of any new
IP that you would be using, which would in turn allow them to attribute non-
logged-in traffic from other tabs because they now know your new IP.

------
t0mas88
The author is very naive on what Google Analytics does:

> That doesn't mean there might not be cookies set on google-analytics.com. I
> would imagine there are some that are used for debugging and monitoring
> purposes, for example.

Google links GA data to their DoubleClick and Adwords cookies. So it's not
just "debugging", they're collecting data and using it to create audiences in
Adwords and the DoubleClick products. As a user it's only available if you pay
for Analytics 360, but Google gets the data either way even if you don't get
to use it.

~~~
blacksmith_tb
As someone who has wrestle with GA and GTM regularly, I think it's fair to say
that the author (Simo Ahava[1]) is the preeminent authority on how they work,
and his blog is generally more useful than the official documentation Google
provides.

1: [https://www.simoahava.com/about-simo-
ahava/](https://www.simoahava.com/about-simo-ahava/)

~~~
mywittyname
Yeah, parent comment probably doesn't realize who Simo is. It's like calling
out John Carmack for being naive about OpenGL.

------
not2b
This sounds similar to the EFF's Privacy Badger, though someone who knows more
of the details could give a better comparison than I could.

~~~
cactus2093
I think privacy badger actually does block google analytics though

~~~
not2b
Ah. When I first started using PB it didn't block Google Analytics, apparently
that changed about a year ago according to

[https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/07/sharpening-our-
claws-t...](https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/07/sharpening-our-claws-
teaching-privacy-badger-fight-more-third-party-trackers)

------
aloukissas
Bummer. It looks like I won't be giving up Brave for a while, since it blocks
GA and every other tracker.

~~~
Shared404
Brave isn't particularly trustworthy. Here's one example [1].

I've been using firefox with Privacy Badger and NoScript.

[1] [https://decrypt.co/31522/crypto-brave-browser-
redirect](https://decrypt.co/31522/crypto-brave-browser-redirect)

------
egypturnash
Realistically, it probably should.

------
KorfmannArno
"uses on-device machine learning to identify trackers"

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stonogo
Why not?

~~~
romanovcode
Not brave enough

------
tengbretson
Not sure what to make of this article, but I've become very distrustful of
articles with titles that take the form:

"No, <thing being said by a group I want to smear> is not <doing thing>"

At best it's patronizing, at worst it's used as cover for outright lying.

~~~
TomAnthony
I take your point, but the phrasing makes sense here as it is refuting two
recent articles that were making a strong (and verifiably incorrect claim).

------
chunsj
Sad if this article says true. I want every tracking (including analytics
things) to be disabled.

