

Scott Adams on How to Get a Real Education - mvs
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704101604576247143383496656.html?mod=WeekendHeader_Right

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patio11
Regarding "Attracting Luck": it sounds like a value-free bromide, but it
really does work. I'm not a social butterfly by nature, but I force myself to
go out and network. It blows my mind how effective that is, because there
exists someone with the ability to give you what you want just by saying
"Yeah, sure" and that is 1000000000x more likely to happen after you have
asked him for it in person versus happening spontaneously. (Ditto hearing,
e.g., "You do SEO consulting? What a coincidence, we need that. Send us a
proposal." , "You made what? That's interesting. I have someone you should get
a coffee with.", etc)

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araneae

      Why do we make B students sit through the same classes as their brainy peers? 
    

Not to be too literal here, but the B students are not necessarily less
brainy. In college I was everywhere from a D student to an A+ student; it took
the competition with my peers to bring me up to that level. Without being with
the "brainy" students I had no chance of becoming one.

~~~
_delirium
That's an ongoing debate with things like gifted-student programs as well,
especially at the earlier stages of education. The pro is targeting students
with material suited to their pace, so there aren't students going much more
slowly than they could on the one hand, or being overwhelmed on the other. But
the con is that the giftedness-segregation itself might produce a self-
fulfilling prophecy, as students not in the gifted track aren't challenged
with the advanced curriculum, and also lose the benefit of interaction with
some of their bright peers.

~~~
Rhapso
So, arguably to fix this we should improve our methods of gifted student
identification? versus not having a special education program at all.

I was a gifted student, and I did not start off that way, I was not until high
school that I gained entry to the higher level classes and I had to fight
tooth and nail to get into them because my grades in the regular classes were
Bs not As. It took a few of my teachers arguing with the administration to get
me into the program where I excelled, and my grades got better, but because of
the blind spot you describe it was almost impossible.

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kenjackson
Surprisingly, almost everything Adams talks about is what is learned at the
worst schools in the drug game. Obviously not for everyone because (a) it's
illegal, (b) often violent, and (c) not generally well-regarded. But at least
there's precedent for this type of education of the B student.

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astrofinch
What exactly are you referring to by the "drug game"?

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kenjackson
Drug dealing, especially in the inner city. You could find most of the skills
he talks about learned by dealing drugs. You want to learn things like Learn
Persuasion, Attract Luck, Find the Action, Combine Skills, Fail Forward, then
look at drug dealing.

The only skill that doesn't strongly apply is Write Simply, although it does
to an extreme -- in the sense that the less you have written down the better
off you are.

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noelsequeira
_Students of entrepreneurship should learn the art of persuasion in all its
forms, including psychology, sales, marketing, negotiating, statistics and
even design._

Scott Adams just shared with us the ideal framework for an entrepreneurial
curriculum. But more importantly, the article reinforces the fact that the
whole is far greater than the sum of these parts, especially in the context of
an entrepreneur.

 _I succeeded as a cartoonist with negligible art talent, some basic writing
skills, an ordinary sense of humor and a bit of experience in the business
world. The "Dilbert" comic is a combination of all four skills. The world has
plenty of better artists, smarter writers, funnier humorists and more
experienced business people. The rare part is that each of those modest skills
is collected in one person. That's how value is created._

As an aside, this makes a compelling case for the pursuit of a co-founder with
complementary skills.

~~~
keiferski
Or to have the complementary skills yourself.

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fecklessyouth
"Combine Skills. Fail Forward. Attract Luck. Conquer Fear. Write Simply. Learn
Persuasion."

Sorry, but that "education in entrepreneurship" curriculum just looks like a
list of skills absolutely anyone should pick up in the natural course of life
and career. I understand the need for a useful, technical education, but
sometimes I think we overestimate how much useful, technical skills can be
gained from classroom instruction v. the real world. This is an argument
against mainstream college education as much as it is for a challenging,
classical liberal arts degree..despite what Adams writes.

~~~
jacoblyles
There is something about the do-or-die pressures of entrepreneurship that
really drives the lessons home compared to trying to get an A in your
mandatory Sociology class.

~~~
fecklessyouth
Yet, correct me if I'm wrong, but Adams is advocating an entrepreneurship
class. If all he's aiming for are the skills developed in entrepreneurship,
why make it a class at all?

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Tycho
Good article. The combining skills was the best part (you're more likely to be
marketable by combining several skills than by trying to become a world-class
practitioner of one in particular).

I found this bit disturbing though

' _I pointed out that my friend—the soon-to-be-fired bartender—was tall, good-
looking and so gifted at b.s. that he'd be the perfect leader._ '

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klbarry
It's pretty true, though.

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holdenc
What Scott Adams doesn't mention is that while you can learn entrepreneurship
on the fly, learning about the classics, literature and art is a social
experience. I've met lots of successful individuals who seek out high-culture
trophies of validation (expensive art, season tickets to the met) -- many
times only as overcompensation for their lack of understanding of the liberal
arts in general.

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sdizdar
I think that education is continuous. We are trying to squeeze all learning,
all education, and all wisdom in first 25 years of life. That is just wrong.

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jlees
I find it interesting that Adams mentions a MBA rounded out his
entrepreneurial experience. From his descriptions of his business escapades in
college, it seems like he was a well-rounded, experienced entrepreneur
already. The only value from the MBA that I can think of would be the
corporate perspective.

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hanifvirani
Favorite quotes from the article:

 _Students should be taught that failure is a process, not an obstacle._

 _Luck finds the doers._

 _Simplicity makes ideas powerful._

What made the article worth it were the real life stories he shared to make a
point. Would love to hear some similar stories. Any HNers have any good ones
that they'd like to share?

~~~
jacques_chester
> Luck finds the doers.

 _Audentes fortuna iuvat_ \- Virgil.

~~~
GFischer
I'd heard it as "Audaces Fortuna iuvat".

Wikipedia once again impresses with an article on the subject:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortune_favours_the_bold>

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dimitar
Adams shares the most common view nowadays that school is either supposed to
prepare you for your 'carrier' or make you an academic.

In fact school is here to increase your wisdom to the fullest before putting
in you in risk to gather experience.

This is relevant to any student. And explains why sometimes B students (as
marks) succeed at business - they may not been better memorizers, but have the
knowledge to make better choices and use this knowledge.

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shriphani
How do you decide you are a B student ? Standardized testing? Then another no-
good John Q Idiot will write a blog post on another seemingly important rag
like the wsj or fox news about how this entrepreneurship curriculum is the
next incarnation of some mega-corporation fascism + US gov racist intentions
and blah blah blah.

~~~
MediaBehavior
I believe he's deriving "B student" from "B school"

"B school" == "Business school"

~~~
michael_dorfman
You're mistaken. The context makes it clear that he is speaking about students
who get a letter grade of "B".

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cantbecool
This article reminds me of something that I would read while waiting for my
copies at Kinkos. It's generally vague and would contain very little
substance.

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rajasharan
he gave examples from his real life

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cantbecool
His examples were about him essentially manipulating rules to his favor. I do
not think they contain much substance and would only be beneficial in Wall
Street and politics.

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datasink
He saw opportunities, sometimes embedded within problems, and worked them to
his favor. This is what he's referring to when he speaks of the learned skill
of transforming "nothing into something", and it's a skill that obviously
applies to business.

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groby_b
Ah yes, Scott Adams, the great expert on education.

Last I checked, he was somebody who made a semi-funny cartoon. Why are we
listening to him for education advice?

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Gatsky
I think HN is filled with great advice from people that are not experts in a
particular field, but nonetheless have gained some kind of insight usually
through experience.

I have a general rule not to heed advice unless the advisor can back it up
with some kind of personal experience. This excludes maybe 99% of financial
advice, which I think is a good thing.

Your criticism might be relevant if he was putting forward a comprehensive
plan to reform the education system, but he is just trying to give another
perspective on what the goals of education should be.

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groby_b
I do not object to Scott Adams giving his perspective. I do not object to the
contents of his piece. I'm wondering what the heck it's doing on HN.

The _only_ reason this got any traction is that he happens to make Dilbert.
His is not a particularly rare and/or valuable insight, and nothing in there
makes it different from millions of other armchair education reformers.

I expect more from HN links. My mistake for making a snarky comment instead of
spelling it out properly.

