
OS X: About Mail Update for Mavericks - tambourine_man
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT6030?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US
======
bowlofpetunias
Of course if Apple Mail claims compatibility with the worlds biggest email
service they should live up to that.

But it amazes, and frankly kind of depresses me, that so many people on HN
only see this as an Apple issue, whilst it's quite clear that Google is
messing with open standards to make email (and other services) less and less
portable and less accessible for third party clients.

As far as I can tell, that is the root of the problem, Google's continued move
away from open standards and towards old school vendor lock-in. The old phrase
"embrace, extend and extinguish" comes to mind. We should know better.

~~~
kalleboo
The problem is that IMAP is a crappy protocol. How do you layer tags onto a
protocol where that was never envisioned? Where a basic function "move between
folders" is an extension and not in the original protocol? IMAP doesn't even
guarantee that message IDs are consistent between mailbox listings! (there's a
great rant about how terrible both IMAP and all the IMAP servers out there
are, can't remember by whom)

I'm just glad Google still support IMAP at all instead of going fully
proprietary protocol like they have with calendars, where they gave up on
iCal.

~~~
reeses
I was trying to remember the rant you refer to as well. I vaguely recall the
core being that Mark Crispin's[1] RFCs were internally inconsistent, such that
it was _impossible_ to implement a standards-compliant IMAP server.

Of course, UW-IMAP preceded the RFCs, so there was already a "reference
implementation" against which other implementations could be compared and
found wanting. Mark was especially obnoxious about protecting his view of
IMAP.

This was a weird time at the UofW. We had a hypertext system (UWIN) that was a
mess and HTTP was banned as a server technology. Run a webserver for any
reason, and disusering was a very real threat. They may have allowed gopher,
but it's been a while.

PINE, of course, came out of this, which wasn't too bad, as it inspired a
number of decent successors.

Best of all, Ada was the pedagogical programming language for the computer
science program. Fortunately, you never used it past the second-semester CS
course.

[1] I just found out that he passed away late last year.

------
kaffeinecoma
I'm giving Airmail a spin.
[https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/airmail/id573171375](https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/airmail/id573171375).
It's only been a day, but so far pretty fast and painless for both GMail and a
university IMAP account. I've no affiliation with them other than as a (so
far) happy customer.

~~~
jmgtan
Personally I've been trying out AirMail for quite a few versions already, but
I always go back to Sparrow. Sparrow seems more mature and faster for daily
use.

~~~
FireBeyond
Well, Airmail can only get better. Sparrow hasn't been updated in over a year
(and never will be again), and seems to have periodic CPU hog issues for me
(with a relatively small mailbox).

~~~
jmgtan
that's why I always play around with every new version of AirMail

------
arohner
FYI, this update breaks GPGMail's plugin for Mail.app

[edit: re-installing GPGMail Works For Me]

~~~
nikoftime
I believe it was already broken as of the 10.9 update, or at least it was for
me.

~~~
ancarda
Did you get the 10.9 update? The newest version works with Mavericks.

------
3JPLW
This doesn't fix the only bug I've experienced: The "Store draft messages on
the server" Mailbox Behavior option is still not being properly respected or
stored. It seems to be permanently on. While you can disable it temporarily,
it always reverts back on. It's not a terribly big deal, but it is annoying
due to the implementation of Mail's autosave - the trash folder rapidly
becomes populated with hundreds of incomplete drafts as Mail.app trashes the
previous save and creates a new one.

I've not tested it yet, but I would guess that this could be exceptionally bad
with large attachments.

~~~
reeses
_Why_ is that flag not persistent? It drives me crazy, along with the "store
junk on server" flag. I'm tempted to write a user launchagent that just keeps
setting the flag every minute.

I've filed radars against both of them but of course never hear back, as it's
undoubtedly a dup.

------
wmeredith
Why is this notable? Am I missing something?

~~~
nikoftime
Users of Apple's Mail.app who also used Gmail have basically had non-
functioning or semi-functioning email since the Mavericks OS X update. I was
one of the affected users and have spent hours dealing with the issue, then
eventually just reverted to web mail until they fixed the problems.

~~~
bowlofpetunias
_Some_ users. I'm using multiple email accounts via Mail.app, amongst them 4
Google accounts, and I've experienced zero issues.

I only know about any issues from reading HN, because absolutely no one I know
has had any problems.

~~~
nikoftime
What's great is that after the update, it's already working better for me. For
what it's worth, when I called Apple about it, both support techs I spoke to
had experienced the issues as well. It seemed to be correlated with large
inboxes and whether "All Mail" was enabled as an IMAP folder in Gmail's
settings. It was generally recommended to _not_ be enabled in 10.8 and lower,
and is now recommended in 10.9+.

------
egypturnash
Oh, awesome, it's promising a fix for the inaccurate unread counts I've been
having. Looking forwards to updating once I'm done with air travel today.

------
marquis
I'm primarily using Postbox with Gmail IMAP ([http://postbox-
inc.com](http://postbox-inc.com)) - full featured and a bit nicer than
Thunderbird. I loved Sparrow but found it wasn't powerful enough for multiple
business accounts. Search could be a bit nicer as I tend to keep a gmail
window open as I often need to reference older emails.

------
ROFISH
They still did not fix the delete keyboard key issue with Gmail: Pressing
delete sends directly to the trash and skips the archive. There's no key
shortcut for archive.

Which is odd, because iOS 7 has Gmail not offering "delete" but "archive" for
the inbox.

~~~
3JPLW
Hunh? I've had an archive option in OS X Mail since (I think) 10.8.
Message->Archive. Or Command-control-A. Or there's also a toolbar button to do
it (you may need to customize to get it, though, I don't recall if it's there
by default).

~~~
ROFISH
Oh, never really found it there.

That still doesn't solve the fact that pressing delete will send to trash
instead of the archive, in the past it just sent to the archive.

~~~
k-mcgrady
>> "That still doesn't solve the fact that pressing delete will send to trash
instead of the archive, in the past it just sent to the archive."

That doesn't sound like a problem. The delete button deletes and the archive
button archives. Why would you want it backwards?

------
rcarmo
Incidentally, I've just updated
[https://github.com/rcarmo/HJKLPlugin](https://github.com/rcarmo/HJKLPlugin)
with the new build UUIDs. You still need to self-sign it, but I'll eventually
publish a binary.

------
rjzzleep
i can't believe no one has mentioned mailmate[1] yet. it's not quite mutt for
osx, but it's pretty damn close. while it's nowhere near as pretty as airmail,
it's more performant in my opinion. the newest version has a switch for
scripting support.

I'd recommend both though, airmail recently added gmail hotkeys. Although I
feel that there are some missing. Like the ability to switch folders with keys

[1] [http://freron.com](http://freron.com)

------
kalleboo
"Mail Update for Mavericks can't be installed on this disk. This volume does
not meet the requirements for this update." WTF?

~~~
pooriaazimi
There were two GMs. I guess you're running the first one. Update to the second
GM (aka the public release, 13A603) and you'll be fine.

~~~
Watabou
I have 13A017. That means for some reason, I have a later release? I didn't
download any developer seeds.

Also, the Mail update installed file for me.

~~~
Someone
pooriaazimi: _" Update to the second GM (aka the public release, 13A603) and
you'll be fine."_

Check those numbers. In my book, 017 < 603 (in both decimal and octal :-))

------
jherdman
And... Mail is still FUBAR. I can't set up any of my accounts with it, it just
hangs indefinitely. Hooray... _sigh_

------
mars
oh thank god they also finally fixed the 13inch mb pro retina freezes.

~~~
5vforest
upvoted, because until I read your comment I was wondering "WHAT THE GOD DAMN
HELL IS GOING ON WITH MY COMPUTER?!"

~~~
mars
well it was about time

[https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5481839](https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5481839)

------
thomaslutz
It's about time.

------
MrGando
Thunderbird.

