Ask HN: Have you ever taken (or not) a job mainly due to the company's mission? - raybb
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bandrami
Sure, several times. I've mostly done ops for the nonprofit sector so it's a
little easier (I'm in avtech right now for rea$on$, but most of my career has
been nonprofit).

Now, I live in DC so this is a lot easier for me than for people who live in
other cities. But K Street and Old Town are chock full of Societies for the
Advancement of Whatever, who __always __need technical work done, and there 's
rarely a problem finding a "Whatever" that you believe in (or just think is
cool).

A few thoughts on this:

1\. The "cool" factor should not be underestimated. One of my favorite jobs
was sysadmining at Mount Vernon; it's not that I particularly believe in
George Washington, but that is a mission that is undeniably "cool".

2\. You will not make remotely as much money as you will in the for-profit
sector (see above), but you'll have a much better quality of life. I spent
years as a sysadmin without a pager, because they really don't care if the
server goes down overnight. You will also (in my experience) have a much freer
hand with what you do than you do in a tech company. If their brief is
lobbying for human rights, they neither know nor care what stack you use to
implement their intranet.

3\. Org work has a very specific annual rhythm that you need to understand to
work with. Every year there's a conference, a publication of some sort, and a
membership drive; each of those is an "all-hands-on-deck" situation that lasts
about a fiscal quarter (and you probably will be stuffing envelopes and
manning a booth and checking people in). That leaves you one quarter per year
for infrastructure work. Use it wisely.

~~~
raybb
Have you found it a challenge at all (as far as getting jobs) to move between
the nonprofit and private sector?

Did you start out with nonprofits or move to nonprofits later in your career?

~~~
bandrami
Not really; the big barrier is between tech companies and non-tech companies.
Once you leave the tech world it can be harder to get back in.

Again, as a sysadmin my experience is probably different from a developer's:
every industry needs sysadmins, and in a lot of smaller places you'll
literally be the only IT employee other than possibly a CIO.

~~~
tmaly
What have been the biggest types of problems you have seen in these non-tech
companies?

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snowAbstraction
I almost signed at a software company working with interesting maintenance
optimization for big machines, like trains or helicopters. Up until the final
meeting with the CEO, I was promised that I could stay out of the military
applications. But the CEO luckily told me that actually I could not be avoid
those applications. So I politely said that I would being declining the offer
and that I was disappointed that lower staffs and bosses mislead me.

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rnprince
I once joined a successful, for-profit, private company, because I liked its
mission, despite being offered lower compensation and benefits than I could
have accepted elsewhere. This was very naive of me, and didn't turn out how I
had hoped at all.

It turned out that the mission was more of a very well executed recruiting and
sales strategy than what I felt every day at the organization. Looking back,
the recruiting effort talked about their culture and values so much that I
should have known they were very insecure about something. The lower
compensation wasn't required by the company's financials from what I could
tell, nor was it made up for by especially meaningful work. Unsurprisingly,
the organizational flaws of not valuing employees and cutting corners also
showed up in other ways, most painfully in the form of amazingly bad code and
hostile managers. The job was unbearable for me, as well as for many others.

I think the takeaway is that honest, successful companies should be willing to
fairly compensate their employees. If a company can do that but doesn't, you
should reconsider working there.

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itamarst
Yes.

1\. I want to be working on helping scientists, and this influenced current
job search. Beyond personal satisfaction, this also has practical benefits:
all things being equal, if you're motivated by the company's mission you'll be
more focused (more at [https://codewithoutrules.com/2017/08/03/stay-
focused/](https://codewithoutrules.com/2017/08/03/stay-focused/)).

2\. There are jobs I simply won't take, because I think they're immoral or
unethical. Other jobs I'd probably only take if I was desperate for money,
since they seem pointless. (more at
[https://codewithoutrules.com/2017/08/07/do-something-
useful/](https://codewithoutrules.com/2017/08/07/do-something-useful/)).

That being said:

* If you're bored, you will enjoy your job less.

* If you're working crazy long hours, you're actively undermining your ability to do your job. Doesn't matter how important it is, working longer won't actually help. (more at [https://codewithoutrules.com/2016/08/18/productive-programme...](https://codewithoutrules.com/2016/08/18/productive-programmer/))

So basically, my take is: finding someplace that you think is worthwhile _and_
is a good work environment. Any, of course, pays you what you need. Living
below your means can give you more flexibility in what jobs you need to take.

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MollyR
Yea, I tend to avoid companies that pretend to be about something other than
making money.

Its mainly for practical reasons, they tend to pay less.

~~~
tiggybear
They also tend to value transparency more, IMO.

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nasalgoat
In a healthy job market, it's fairly easy to go beyond just salary and duties
and decide based on more esoteric reasons whether to join a company or not.

I once turned down a job that paid more than another one because they wanted
me to wear a tie.

~~~
palerdot
That is hilarious. Did you inform the company on why you were not joining?

~~~
nasalgoat
No, it was an investment firm, they weren't super interested in feedback.

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bkdonline
I joined my current employer for their mission to provide mobile phones in
local languages in India. Its a real contribution that helps user on the
ground, but I quit after working for them for about eight months, after I
realized that not only the localization was more of a marketing point, and
that no real work on localization had happened in last two years, but also
that people within the company were least bothered about the end product, and
more about their own responsibilities. Everyone worked in silos, and
management didn't give a damn about it. I am switching sides, and going from a
pure server side role to a server side cum embedded systems role to try to
change something in the electricity wastage problem.

So to sum up, my current job was taken because company had a mission. I quit
it because they didn't stand by that mission in their day to day working. And
I joined my next company due to their mission.

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goodroot
I have passed on many opportunities. Without a lucid mission and vision, what
is the company doing? If my heart isn't in full alignment with the
organization, why am I committing a large chunk of my waking life to
furthering their goals? Our dance on this earth is too short to commit your
health, talent, and wisdom to something you don't believe in.

Can you share the circumstance that you're mulling over? Good paycheque,
ambiguous plan?

~~~
raybb
I've been reading this _Disrupted: My Misadventure in the Start-Up Bubble_ and
it just kinda got me thinking about the topic in general.

There's no special circumstance that's prompting me to ask this question. It
was something I thought about and was surprised that there were no HN
discussions about it.

We see a lot of posts here about culture fit, compensation, and perks but I
wonder how many people go to a company because they believe in the mission of
a company.

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Caveman_Coder
Yes. If the company has too much corporate bullshit marketing talk.

Also, I've found that the more a company talks about how great their "culture"
is, the shitty it is in actual practice.

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ful09003
Leaving my current employer and joining my next solely due to mission (plus a
bit of culture). $current employer was recently acquired by a large multi-
national "health/beauty eCommerce company" with an end goal to have complete
domination in that sector. $next employer is focused on delivering a quality
service to a specific audience (plus give back to that audience as much as
possible). While it's asinine to assume that $next has no interest in
expanding profit, the difference in mission and culture spawned from those
missions is night and day to me. I've come to realize that if I am personally
unable to reconcile a company's mission with my own interests and beliefs, I
will eventually be unhappy regardless of the benefits they provide.

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here_comes_pork
I don't work for fossil fuel companies, or companies that do heavy business
with them. Along the same lines I would love to find a job with a company in
the green energy/sustainability business. Problem is that there don't seem to
be a ton of options for the kind of coding I do...

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paulgb
Yes. The one that comes to mind most prominently is Palantir.

Dodged a bullet there, considering that those options would probably be
underwater.

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vandahm
I worked as a software developer at a nonprofit for four years, mostly because
of the organization's mission. It didn't pay nearly as well as the for-profit
sector, but the job had quality-of-life advantages that mostly offset that.

The nonprofit sector has its share of frustrations. Nonprofits are subject to
auditing requirements that restrict them from doing things that we take for
granted in the for-profit sector, and fundraising campaigns were always really
stressful. But, by and large, it was four years of productive, meaningful,
good-quality work.

------
rleigh
Absolutely. My current position was carefully chosen (academic open source
software development) for this reason. I did interview with some other
companies, including ARM and Google. I could have definitely taken their offer
and worked for ARM on Aarch64 toolchain stuff, which was also all open source
software work. I would not have taken up a position with Google; its goals are
not aligned with my own, no matter how much they might have paid.

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mattnewport
It usually doesn't get that far - I've turned down interviews at companies I
wouldn't work for because of their mission (an Apple recruiter for example who
contacted me through a referral from a former colleague). If I'm that opposed
to a company's mission or business practices that I'd turn down a job offer
I'm probably not even going to waste my time interviewing.

~~~
raybb
Is a company's mission a big part of what you look at when you're looking at a
potential employer? Have you ever sought out a job because of the company's
mission?

~~~
mattnewport
It's a fairly important factor, there's quite a few companies I'd be unlikely
to work for due to qualms about how they operate. There's others I'd be more
inclined to work for because of their mission. Ultimately the work has to be
engaging though, I'm unlikely to take a job working on something that doesn't
interest me just because I believe in the company's mission.

------
jamesmishra
Yes! When I was interviewing at Uber in 2014, I wasn't truly interested until
my interviewer mentioned that Uber reduces the drunk driving rate after it
launches in a city[1].

(Later on, other studies[2] have cast doubt on the earlier findings, but from
a mission perspective, I found that the employees really _care_ about the
drunk driving problem, and are proud to work on a product that _can_ reduce
the rate of drunk driving.)

[1]: [https://www.uber.com/blog/chicago/dui-rates-decline-in-
uber-...](https://www.uber.com/blog/chicago/dui-rates-decline-in-uber-cities/)

[2]: [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/07/business/uber-drunk-
drivi...](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/07/business/uber-drunk-driving-
prevention.html)

------
hprotagonist
You know the scene near the end of "Real Genius", when the team realizes
they've been duped and Chris screams "Kent, how could you build that
mirror?!"?

I ask myself that question before taking a job, so that nobody else will be
able to.

------
Raphmedia
No but I have left a company due to the lack of vision and mission.

~~~
raybb
Care to elaborate on that?

~~~
AnimalMuppet
I'm not the person you're asking, but I'll throw in my two cents. If they
don't have a mission, they're probably going to have trouble doing something
that anyone cares about enough to pay them for.

------
doktrin
Yes, most notably to work on a microfinance platform. I believed in the social
mission and the model's viability.

As for the inverse, I've avoided many large tech companies because I felt they
broadly lacked a mission.

I don't regret following my proverbial heart from time to time, but I do
actually regret not trying out one of the tech giants while I was still in the
US - some domains and problem spaces are hard to work on elsewhere, Greater
Mission (tm) or no.

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xemdetia
Yes, if you don't believe in the mission or at least think it is a good idea
you aren't going to do well there as some place where you do. It's a lot
easier to do that much more even in a 9-5 role when you don't have to spend
effort trying to make sense of what is going on. It's the same as on the other
side of the hiring equation saying someone is a 'bad fit' for the work you had
planned for them.

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megamindbrian
I avoid feeling like a middle man. I want to provide services to people. I
turn down stupid startup ideas every day.

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smoe
I have quit a job mostly because of the unofficial but clearly visible mission
change.

So far I haven't taken a job because of a specific mission (I'm happy as long
there actually is one beyond a sales pitch), but denied or ignored offers from
companies where I would have moral problems with what their doing.

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bradhe
I left a job due to it's mission. I worked for a (very, very large) adtech
exchange. Their motto was "we keep the internet free." I couldn't reconcile
the fact that 80% of engineers used ad blocker while working on the technology
it fought against.

~~~
quickthrower2
Free as in beer, but not free as in free from annoying ads!

~~~
bradhe
The former!

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SAI_Peregrinus
I've done (and will continue to do) volunteer work on the side. That's often a
part-time job (20 hrs/wk) taken entirely due to the mission of the
organization.

~~~
raybb
Willing to share any of the organizations you've enjoyed volunteering for?

~~~
SAI_Peregrinus
Freeflight, an exotic bird sanctuary in San Diego. I like birds, they can be
very friendly animals.

The Los Angeles Maritime Institute. I'm a member of the International Guild of
Knot Tyers, I like knots and ropework, so helping out with the maintenance of
the tall ships was a great experience.

That brings up an added benefit of volunteer work: it doesn't need to have any
relation to your day job.

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bsvalley
Nope. It's like VC's... They always bet on a team rather than an idea. With
great people, you usually do great things.

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atwong
Maybe not 100% but it did influence the decision on working for an open source
company.

