
America's Biggest Asphalt Plant Is Shutting - hourislate
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-03/trump-plans-road-building-as-biggest-u-s-asphalt-plant-shuts
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vmarsy
> The U.S. would need 63 percent more asphalt than its consumes now just to
> pave roads at the rate it reached a decade ago

Interesting how the article fails to mention that asphalt isn't the only way
to build roads. Unless you live in an area with a lot of snow and rain,
concrete roads are a better economical and ecological choice [1]. I'd prefer a
limestone based road vs a petroleum based road if I wasn't living in area with
frequent rain. Concrete is also lighter in color which makes it retain less of
the sun heat, it's more pleasant to walk near it.

> with demand for construction materials in Texas rising 30 to 40 percent

Interesting fact to mention, except "construction materials" != asphalt. In
fact, many road in Texas are already concrete based (which should make
northern states sympathize more with Texas when they freak out over 0.5 inch
of snow) and recent city road projects favor replacing asphalt with concrete
[2]

Finally, people have seen what recent innovation in concrete pavements can
bring, with this permeable concrete that instantly absorbs thousands of gallon
of water [3].

[1] [http://www.brighthubengineering.com/concrete-
technology/4585...](http://www.brighthubengineering.com/concrete-
technology/45858-concrete-roads-vs-asphalt-roads/)

[2] [https://blog.cstx.gov/2017/02/01/concrete-streets-will-
save-...](https://blog.cstx.gov/2017/02/01/concrete-streets-will-save-city-
money-in-long-run/)

[3] [http://www.tarmac.com/solutions/readymix/topmix-
permeable/](http://www.tarmac.com/solutions/readymix/topmix-permeable/)

~~~
erentz
Before I had moved to the US five years ago I had never experienced concrete
roads. Now that I have, they are easily the worst experience. They might work
in some areas such as the south. But on the west coast they are cracked,
potholed, sections lifted out of alignment, they are rough and loud, and the
markings are often worn down to the point of being nearly invisible (not to
mention white markings on white concrete is always invisible in the rain, and
given they never replace the reflectors that come off after a year you just
have to guess you're staying in your lane).

~~~
Neliquat
Agreed. The worst are the sectioned ones that ThumpThumpThump at about 20-50
cycles for miles. They collect rain in between sections and are more slippery,
and less visible. Additionally, If you live where there is ice/snow, the road
never heats from the sun and ices worse. I would love more asphalt roads, much
easier and cheaper to patch, and maintain in non ideal situations, which is
most roads.

~~~
Reason077
_I would love more asphalt roads, much easier and cheaper to patch_

Concrete roads tend to be cheaper over the long term, as they require less
maintenance. In some regions the difference can be significant depending on
traffic volumes and climate.

~~~
shard972
This seems odd to me, living in Australia where alot of roads are asphalt I
don't know how it would be cheaper to repair them like they do out here.

The just have a truck roll around and dump some more asphalt in the holes, tap
it with the shovel and it usually fixes it up fine. If not they come around
6/12 months later and do it again.

With concrete, can you just drive by and drop some cement in the cracks and
holes and move on? Don't you have to usually cut out parts, repave and block
off the road for an amount of time?

~~~
csydas
It's the maintenance costs over time that are generally better. Asphalt is
convenience in that it's much more of a patch job, but over time it tends to
require more maintenance so the costs level out. Asphalt overlay atop concrete
will generally result in a more long-term solution with an easily maintainable
surface to avoid the noise complaints some have echoed.

------
ChuckMcM
I'm only moderately surprised that no one has informed our President so he can
"fix this" :-)

That said, the history of this stuff [1] is pretty interesting as well. There
were some 'test roads' in the desert outside of Las Vegas were the Dept of
Transportation was trying different formulations for hot environments. In the
desert the heat would make the roads more malleable than you wanted and trucks
driving on them would leave some pretty impressive ruts. Concrete was used as
well but the expansion and shrinking would destroy it too. Then there were
some cobblestone roads that had been built in the 1800s that were still in
good shape but you can't really make a freeway out of cobblestone :-).

[1] The History of Asphalt --
[http://www.asphaltpavement.org/index.php?option=com_content&...](http://www.asphaltpavement.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=41)

------
Animats
That makes sense. Asphalt is best made from heavy crude oil, and there's more
of that in the US West and Canada. Importing heavy crude oil to the US is
inefficient.

Asphalt is a by-product of refining crude oil into gasoline and heating oil.
It comes from the left-over heavy bottom fractions, the really long
hydrocarbon chains. Nobody buys crude oil just to make asphalt.

------
stephenr
Since moving to Thailand I've come to despise concrete roads.

The Thai approach to road building seems to be: 1\. dump/spread/compress boat
loads of sand (yes you read that right, SAND) until you have a smooth surface
that would work well for a kids sandpit.

2\. Pour reinforced concrete slabs about 20cm/8" thick.

3\. Wait for the inevitably overloaded trucks to destroy the surface.

I haven't seen a _new_ asphalt road laid here yet, just re-surfacing so I'm
not sure what their prep is like for that but the eventual result from abuse
by pickups overloaded with watermelons/etc is less dangerous:

Asphalt tends to deform but keep a sold surface: the wheel tracks will be
depressed, and the space between will become slightly raised (think like wheel
tracks in the mud) but it can generally be navigated with care.

Concrete doesn't fail that way. It just cracks, the underlying sand gets
washed away, and you have the wonderful experience of broken concrete with
sharp metal sticking out the broken edges.

It doesn't help that Thai builders/society is obsessed with making things out
of concrete.

~~~
cyberferret
Interesting. I seem to recall that when I lived in Malaysia many decades ago,
someone told me that when they laid down the gravel and tar mix for the roads
over there, they added a fair bit of rubber sap into it as well. Don't know if
it was an urban myth, but the person who told me mentioned that the roads
tended to react better to things like heat expansion from the sun's heat and
vibration because the final compound was a lot more elastic. He also said that
the added rubber provided extra traction for vehicle tyres.

Given that rubber is a massive raw produce of Malaysia, I could see that they
could do this, but always wondered if it was viable from an engineering
standpoint. I mean, the tar/gravel slush mix is quite hot, and I would have
thought that raw, unprocessed rubber sap my break down in the mix?

~~~
jimmywanger
[http://www.calrecycle.ca.gov/tires/RAC/](http://www.calrecycle.ca.gov/tires/RAC/)

"Rubberized Asphalt Concrete". You're reusing discarded tires (which are
extremely painful to recycle) and extending the lifespan of the road.

Not quite sure if the material in tires is actually rubber or some synthetic
petroleum product, but I think the principle is the same.

------
jws
Modern asphalt road maintenance can include thin overlays to extend the life
of the roads instead of replacement or thick overlays, as low as 1/2" compared
to the traditional 2". This overlay is made of some new material but also
quite a bit of recycled asphalt pavement.

These may be combining to keep the demand for new asphalt lower despite
continued demand for asphalt roads.

~~~
frik
Bad idea. Some contractors do that. Now they do the same maintainance every
year, as the thin asphalt doesn't last long.

It's a lot better to properly re-surface asphalt once every 10-15 years with a
thicker layer.

Just throwing around words like green, recycled asphalt, etc doesn't mean it's
a good idea, often it's a rip off, the we have to pay via tax.

~~~
JumpCrisscross
> _thin asphalt doesn 't last long_

Do you have a source for a "thicker layer" of asphalt lasting 10 to 15 times
longer than "thin asphalt"? What is the cost difference?

