
Notice to stakeholders: withdrawal of the UK and EU rules on .eu domain names - stryk
https://ec.europa.eu/info/publications/notice-stakeholders-withdrawal-united-kingdom-and-eu-rules-eu-domain-names_en
======
bograt
Those who want the UK to remain in the EU will see this as just one damaging
consequence of the UK's decision to leave. Conversely, Brexiteers will see
this as an example of maladministration by an EU bureaucracy, and another
demonstration of why the UK needs to exit. Sadly, there will be no consensus.

Putting aside the politics, this seems like a very poor decision.
Historically, I believe most registering authorities have made great efforts
to grandfather-in prior domains, for practical reasons apparent to most
visitors of this site.

Additionally, shoddy treatment of 10% of current registrees will do nothing to
increase the perceived value of an .eu domain. I also note that it appears the
EU commission didn't even discuss the policy with the company that manages the
.eu domain:

[https://eurid.eu/en/news/ec-releases-communication-
concernin...](https://eurid.eu/en/news/ec-releases-communication-concerning-
brexit-and-the-eu-tld/)

~~~
solarkraft
> Additionally, shoddy treatment of 10% of current registrees will do nothing
> to increase the perceived value of an .eu domain.

It does for me. Creates the image of an exclusive TLD with only genuine,
trustable EU registrees.

~~~
bograt
That's a fair comment. I hadn't considered that perspective.

I'm aware of several TLDs that require evidence of residency/trade within the
geographic region for the purpose of registration, but I don't think any of
them require it in perpetuity for renewals; it's this that seems problematic
to me. In principle, URLs are based on a degree of immutability: saying that a
domain name must change when circumstances change seems at odds with the
architectural fundamentals of the web, in which case I question the value of
establishing a .eu domain at all.

------
pmlnr
Apart from my fury, which is caused by having a .eu as my main domain and
living in the UK - reverse DNS, mail, etc, all quite hard to change due to
trust databases -, this leaves me with yet another enforcement that we are in
desperate need of domains - or something similar - that is yours, yours for
life, and can not be taken away.

.onion would be ideal, but Tor itself has been criminalised so well, that
vanilla people are and would be frightened to visit them - and they might even
be right, given the amount of supervision ISPs have nowadays.

.bit is not a solution, it's just another registrar in it's essence, and a
rather complicated one, that needs namecoin.

Is anyone aware of a work-in-progress solution or had nobody thought about
this during the re-decentralize haste?

------
tscs37
It's the registrar rules being enforced exactly like they always have been.
The Rules say "EU only". If the UK is no longer in the EU then the simply
conclusion is that the domain ownership will be revoked.

~~~
jwilk
The rules say: EU, or Iceland, or Norway, or Liechtenstein.

~~~
codepope2014
The rules say European Economic Area
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area)).
Which the UK is, ridiculously, also leaving, but does include Iceland, Norway
and Liechtenstein as EFTA members.

~~~
jwilk
FWIW, the Domain Name Registration Policy
([https://eurid.eu/media/filer_public/76/48/7648e621-0c5d-4c09...](https://eurid.eu/media/filer_public/76/48/7648e621-0c5d-4c09-8bde-e5622cb6b23e/registration_policy_en.pdf)
, linked from [https://eurid.eu/en/register-a-eu-domain/rules-for-eu-
domain...](https://eurid.eu/en/register-a-eu-domain/rules-for-eu-domains/))
doesn't mention EEA; it spells out the 3 extra countries explicitly.

------
avian
Can a mod change the click-bait title of this submission to the actual title
of the linked page?

"Notice to stakeholders: withdrawal of the United Kingdom and EU rules on .eu
domain names"

~~~
ealexhudson
Please don't. The page title doesn't make clear the actual impact of this, the
"click bait" is much more informative.

I sincerely hope no-one in the UK is running a substantial business on an .EU
domain; the damage of this could be significant for them.

~~~
avian
> Please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait. Don't
> editorialize.

Above from
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

I've seen this rule commonly applied to HN submissions. To me, this title is
clearly editorializing and more misleading than the original. There is no
mention of "317k .eu domains" in the text. There is even no explicit mention
of cancellation. What is mentioned is eligibility for renewals and new
registrations.

~~~
jwilk
Does anyone know what's the source of this number (317k)?

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.eu#Actual_use](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.eu#Actual_use)
says that the _number of apparently UK owned .eu domains was 344,584_ , but
there's no citation for that claim.

~~~
stryk
After I first read about it I did some light cursory Googling around, and the
press coverage that was the most detailed at the time was @ The Register [1].
Although they report the number to be ~317k, they do not disclose a source --
but I chose to go with it anyway.

To be honest I forgot that folks around here can get their panties in a real
bunch over the titles of submissions -- and I'm not saying they're wrong, but
in my mind the title is far less important than the actual meat of the issue
and the discussion/debate that it (hopefully) generates here on HN. However,
there are rules for the titles, and it wasn't my intention to break them. It
was my mistake.

\---

1:
[https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/03/29/eu_dumps_300000_uko...](https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/03/29/eu_dumps_300000_ukowned_domains_into_brexit_bin/)

------
alicewales
At least pro-Brexit campaign group LEAVE.EU will have to find a new domain
name. It's not just their domain, it's the name of their organisation as a
whole...

~~~
clort
Strictly, the organisation can be disbanded at that point anyway.

~~~
solarkraft
I'd be interested to see how they try to turn Brexit's effect into a victory
for them, though.

------
trengrj
I dislike the idea that domain names can be geographically restricted.
Additionally this .eu cancellation seems a wanton and bureaucratic attack on
the U.K. given Brexit has only recently been triggered.

~~~
teamhappy
Most domains are restricted in some may - usually geographically. Some have
even stricter rules (.cat for example requires you to publish your website in
the Catalan language).

After Brexit people living in the UK no longer fulfill the requirements to own
a .eu domain. Seems pretty straight forward to me.

~~~
geden
What about the half of the UK population that want to be in the EU? Can’t the
EU set a higher, more inclusive standard here?

~~~
profunctor
But they are not in the eu. Surely the higher percentage of people from
Britain who want to leave the EU would like to be treated like a non-EU
country.

~~~
geden
British is currently in the EU. No one really knows yet whether it will leave
in any meaningful way.

I’d like the EU to let UK citizens who want to remain part of the EU do so.
That would be rather fun wouldn’t it? Trolling the idiots who’ve seized
control here.

~~~
solarkraft
Sure I want the people who want to remain to be able to, but the decision was
made as a country. If they don't split into two it'll be pretty hard and
difficult to accept Britons wanting to be in the EU. Maybe if they privately
pay membership fees? It's interesting to think about, but would encompass much
more than a TLD.

~~~
geden
I think the problem is that the decision was made by about 8 private wealthy
individuals. It was not made as a country.

------
pjc50
Someone should probably archive the "leave.eu" site before this happens, for
Brexit recriminations.

------
hanoz
I can't find any reference to a condition that forbids owners from renewing a
.eu domain after leaving the EU in more usual circumstances, like emigration.
If true it would be a very unreasonable condition which would seriously
undermine the value of the domain for would be registrants, so I'm surprised
it's not something that's been highlighted before. If it's not the case then
clearly brexit exiteers ought to be treated at least as well.

In reality this announcement is likely to be politically motivated posturing
on an issue which is to be agreed as part of the brexit negotiations, not
something that is going to be decreed unilaterally.

~~~
pjc50
You're not looking hard enough, or maybe at all.

[https://eurid.eu/media/filer_public/76/48/7648e621-0c5d-4c09...](https://eurid.eu/media/filer_public/76/48/7648e621-0c5d-4c09-8bde-e5622cb6b23e/registration_policy_en.pdf)

Must be "a natural person resident within the European Union, Norway, Iceland
or Liechtenstein"

If the Registrant files a request for a Domain Name registration and is unable
to meet, or no longer meets, the above conditions, the Registry is entitled to
reject the request or to revoke the Domain Name concerned at any time in
accordance with Sections 6 .4 and 8.4 of the Terms and Conditions.

(Why Liechtenstein? Not part of the EU:

"Liechtenstein is a member of the United Nations, European Free Trade
Association, and the Council of Europe, and while not being a member of the
European Union, the country participates in both the Schengen Area and
European Economic Area. It also has a customs union and a monetary union with
Switzerland")

> "is to be agreed as part of the brexit negotiations"

They need to get a bloody move on with this. There's a year left and a _huge_
list of things in the same state of needing to be agreed.

------
candiodari
Instance #945792 of the EU commission coming out with it's usual message:

"Bad voters ! BAD BAD BAD voters !"

"FU"

All the people defending this decision: do you seriously think a majority of
Europeans would defend this decision ? Because that's the yardstick a
government in a democratic nation should be measured by.

~~~
Oletros
Bad voters? The requirements has not been changed

~~~
candiodari
Seen any enforcement actions from the commission itself against other classes
of the many violators of said requirements ?

This is the very first enforcement action from the commission (they normally
come from Eurid)

~~~
Oletros
I have not seen any enforcement, the link only says what are the rules

------
mgiannopoulos
So lots of business for EU registrars offering proxy/“private registration”
services. Good job EC! /s

~~~
icebraining
Proxies are not allowed under the rules. You might fly under the radar, but if
the Registry sees that your website company info doesn't match the
registration info, you're liable to lose the domain.

~~~
mgiannopoulos
Was there any cases where .EU domain registrations were lost because a proxy
was used?

~~~
icebraining
Yes, lensworks.eu. That was before the sunrise period, though.

------
partycoder
Is English going to remain being an official language of the EU?

~~~
wiredfool
Unknown. There's still Ireland. But Ireland is a much smaller influence than
the UK is.

~~~
icebraining
There are 24 official EU languages, many of them from countries with less
influence than Ireland, so I find it hard to believe English won't be
official.

That said, it might not longer be a "procedural" language (status currently
only held by English, French and German). But even then, I wouldn't bet on it.
English is too ingrained at this point.

~~~
wiredfool
Fair enough, I was confused with the procedural vs official language.

Languages are such a political thing. The whole recent (century) history of
Gaeilge is a reaction to UK influence.

------
nkkollaw
The UK's move to leave the EU will probably be the most regretted in history.

The level of pain and expenses that they are and will endure is really
something else.

And for what..? Go figure.

~~~
pjc50
Blue passports? /s

Really it's the victory of a decades-long press "fake news" campaign. For
years papers and politicians alike have misreported EU directives, ECJ
decisions, ECHR decisions (not even part of the EU), and UK human rights law
decisions. This is the result.

The UK media have also given up on providing an accurate picture of the
country outside London, and on any kind of industrial or trade news coverage
that isn't entirely driven by press releases. And the 2008 crisis made life
worse for a lot of people in ways the government has done nothing to address.

~~~
mapcars
It's quite funny because UK media and press workers also live in UK so they
are equally responsible for what is going to happen to them and to the whole
country.

~~~
pjc50
The _owners_ however are generally not domiciled in the UK. It's not as if the
workers get a say in the content.

------
dotcoma
The EU is always so classy.

Or maybe they just wanted to prove the Brits right in wanting to leave.

~~~
oakesm9
This is just a reminder that the rules that were already in place for all
other "third countries" (non-EU or EEA countries) will apply to the UK if/when
they become that. If the negotiations turn out that we stay part of the EEC,
then this won't apply as the UK won't be a "third country".

~~~
dotcoma
I understand not letting people in the UK register new .eu domain names. But
by making it impossible (or just hard, more likely) to renew domain names imho
they are needlessy hurting people and businesses who had bet on the EU.

~~~
icebraining
If they "bet" on the EU, why don't they have any established entity in it?
Doesn't seem like betting much to me.

~~~
lfxyz
Because they have had established entities in it and will continue to do so
until March 2019?

After all, establishing an entity in the United Kingdom has, until now, been
an equal level of 'betting' as establishing an entity anywhere else in the EU.

~~~
icebraining
And if you bet on the top 500 companies in the stock market, and one drops
below the 500th place, nobody will redesign the S&P to fit your portfolio
either. You have to rebalance your bet.

------
zerostar07
This is an ridiculous and blatantly hostile move, esp. considering the fact
that most EU countries don't even have that policy for their own ccTLD. EU has
nothing to win here and this doesn't benefit the .eu domain.

~~~
icebraining
This is not a move. This is just an application of the rules that have always
applied to .eu domains to the new situation.

The rules of ccTLDs of member countries are completely irrelevant.

~~~
zerostar07
rules can change, even temporarily. the UK will probably join in some future
agreement with the EU. it could even be part of a brexit deal. the EU already
offers this exemption to EEA members

~~~
icebraining
Sure; if and when the rules change, I'm sure a new update will be issued. But
that doesn't change the fact that this is a straightforward application of the
existing rules, which were approved long before Brexit.

------
yorwba
That title is highly editorialized. The actual effect is just that .eu domains
will have to be renewed through a registrar that's established in the EU. Most
major registrars probably already fulfill that requirement, and those that
don't shouldn't have any problem with founding an EU subsidiary.

EDIT: Missed the part where "Accredited .eu Registrars will not be entitled to
process any request for the registration of or for renewing registrations of
.eu domain names by those [UK] undertakings, organisations and persons."
Still, I bet the vast majority of domains will be transferred to some shell
entity in the EU, even if it's just domain owners selling off domains they
can't renew anymore.

~~~
nkkollaw
What about the "and natural persons who reside in the United Kingdom" part..?

