
Instacart and Amazon-owned Whole Foods are parting ways - acdanger
https://techcrunch.com/2018/12/13/instacart-and-amazon-owned-whole-foods-are-parting-ways/
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timcederman
How bizarre that the article mentions Amazon Fresh but completely fails to
mention that you can get free delivery from Whole Foods via Prime Now. I
routinely order stuff from Whole Foods through Prime Now and get it just a few
hours later, it's pretty awesome. I used to occasionally order Whole Foods via
Instacart but haven't once since the acquisition.

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MichaelApproved
> free delivery from Whole Foods via Prime Now

More like "free". Amazon preselects $5 tip for the delivery. I don't have to
tip the FedEx driver, why should I tip this delivery driver? It's not free if
I'm expected to tip.

Pay your workers a living wage and build it into the price.

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lawnchair_larry
Do you tip pizza delivery, or do you say that you don’t tip fedex so you won’t
tip pizza either? Arguably, pizza delivery drivers do even less work than
Instacart people who have to shop on your behalf and wait in checkout lines
etc.

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saidajigumi
Tipping is a weirdly American phenomenon. Travel, for example, to the EU or
other parts of the world where there's no tipping. Workers are paid a living
wage and have benefits (esp. in countries that didn't go with employer-
supplied benefits in the wake of WWII). They want no part of "tipping".
Combine that with VAT-using countries, and it's delightful to look at a
restaurant menu and realize there's _zero_ obfuscation about what the final
bill will be. Not to mention tipping as a vehicle for wage theft, and playing
into a generally regressive compensation system.

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robertAngst
You say this is a good thing, until you go to Europe and get treated terrible
service.

I was seriously confused why our waters werent getting filled up, despite
walking 10+ miles before noon. Or why the waiter wasnt coming to our table to
take our order. Or why the waiter didn't check on us.

After sharing this story with locals, it seems their expectations are far less
for restaurants.

I don't have much of an opinion on how to pay waiters, but Italy did not
impress me.

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nihonde
The level of service in Japan, where tipping is not customary, completely
disproves your thesis.

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WillPostForFood
It doesn’t disprove it. It could disprove it, or Japan could just have an
incredibly polite service oriented culture.

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51lver
It nicely shoots down the idea that tipping is required for good service.
Done.

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friedman23
Good job shooting down that argument, can you point me to where someone made
that claim?

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nihonde
“You say this is a good thing, until you go to Europe and get treated terrible
service.” = A policy of no tips results in poor service.

~~~
friedman23
No that statement does not state that tips are required for good service, it
implies that if Europe had tips it would have better service than it does
today. Obviously tips are not required for good service as many restaurants
and even Japan as a whole manage to do it.

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bradknowles
Speaking as a customer, the things I like about InstaCart are:

1\. Reliable delivery time schedules available — usually today — or worst case
tomorrow.

2\. Service of multiple stores, so that we can get things from them we
couldn’t get from Whole Foods.

One thing I dislike about InstaCart is when we order things like a half-gallon
of refrigerated almond milk, and they instead give us the tetrapack quart of
unrefrigerated almond milk. I specifically ordered the particular product and
size I wanted, and I know the store has it in stock. So, why the fuck do you
seem to think it’s okay to make random stupid substitutions like this?!?

I do appreciate the Whole Foods has a delivery service, and I trust that their
pickers will do a better job of actually giving me what I ordered. But if I
order it today, then I want it delivered today or tomorrow, and in a
reasonable time window on that day. And don’t just leave the stuff on my front
porch, like you do with packages.

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bwb
How soon until Instacart is out of business or firesales to a grocery store
chain wanting to hook in their tech if they have any?

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benatkin
I can't think of a grocery store chain that would want them.
Albertsons/Safeway and Kroger both use Instacart and I don't think they would
want to make the customers of the other chain mad, especially when many of
them shop at both chains (they'd have so scale back or shut it down for their
competitors - it wouldn't be sensible for one chain to act neutral and
continue delivering at full steam for the other chains).

~~~
bwb
well i mean if they are running out of money and they can pick them up for
cheap versus build their own might be a great buy. IE, Instacart is going to
go out of business in 6 months and they pick it up for 150 million and get a
great brand + tech to tie into their stores.

~~~
benatkin
Yeah I think it will need to be clear that Instacart is shopping for a buyer
and is going to die regardless, otherwise the customers and instacart drivers
will be pissed off.

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atonse
Do you have to be a Prime member to get the delivery? That's crappy, as we're
looking to retire our Prime membership after this year.

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tptacek
Why? It's not as amazing as it was a few years ago, but it's still a good
enough deal to fit Matt Yglesias's description of it as "a charity run by Wall
Street for the benefit of the American consumer".

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pilingual
Amazon raised the price of Prime, and so it was a good opportunity to question
the value of it. Two day delivery is great but how often did I need something
that quickly? Free delivery and ~5 days is fine. Prime Video seems to target
baby boomers; there’s nothing that’s notable except for a few times a year
when a hit movie appears and it certainly isn’t worth any amount to me. Amazon
itself is a poor experience as I try to avoid doing business with unknown
third parties. Whole Foods: after the acquisition I noticed that quality
declined with brittle, smaller eggs and milk that expired sooner. Amazon
hasn’t been in the best of light in the news in the past year or so. I
remember a couple years ago thinking Amazon was the only respectable big tech
company.

Then, there was a scheduled tissue package delivery that was “lost” by OnTrak.
Amazon doesn’t automate the refund, you have to ask. Happened to be at Target
and noticed that an 8 pack of 160 tissues each cost $12. I looked up amazon’s
and it was $17 when bought, but all of a sudden it was now $13 — also only 120
tissues each box. Why the shadiness? It’s great that you have pricing power,
but I wouldn’t want to do business with a coffee shop where I walk in and the
barista says, “Bob’s here! Jack up the price!” Amazon feels like some legal
version of Wolf of Wallstreet.

Anyway, it’s all just anecdotal. At the end of the day I just don’t trust
them.

Edit: I’ve been off Prime 2 months and don’t miss it.

~~~
bredren
I think the data sharing is possibly a major problem-to-be in that Amazon
probably getting a lot of info about me. A LOT. This is as I ramp down what I
allow Google to know as I've taken steps to limit use of their products,
particularly search. I think this should be people's primary concern with the
rise of this service--especially as it now grows to include data on the foods
you consume.

Presumably, Amazon will begin private labeling food products, which will put
the company in direct line of choosing which farming practices to promote,
what diets get discounted and other interesting capabilities. I want to
believe this power will be used for good--such as Apple's stance toward
Privacy. But benevolence can wax and wane.

I haven't heard Bezos talk about the importance of human health and the food
chain, but I haven't gone looking for that yet either.

To me the delivery service via prime is still amazing. It does matter that
products arrive within two days because I often put them into service the
moment they are delivered.

It matters to me that the product catalog on Amazon is so expansive and has
been combed over by previous buyers. The review system is not perfect, but
largely I am happy with highly rated, well sold merchandise routed through
Amazon's marketplace.

I also have been on the selling side of Prime and while it is expensive for
sellers, it is an incredible to be able to address potential buyers using
Prime with the branding and consistent experience of Amazon all over it. I'm
able to sell unusual things with no reviews.

Regarding the issues you've had with that tissue delivery, I also had an issue
once with a falsely advertised sizing of a ducting tube I needed for a swamp
cooler a couple years back. I had to really get through to customer service to
show that the product sold was not legit. They did take action on the seller
after I spent the time.

That said, that was one out of many hundreds of product purchase experiences
where I felt wronged and Amazon was involved.

I think we're still just getting started with the value prop of Amazon Prime.

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bradknowles
Yup. Amazon Basics is just the start.

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fbelzile
It sounds like they've got a plan up their sleeves for their own grocery
delivery system.

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abalone
There is absolutely nothing in the article suggesting that Instacart is
developing their own supply chain. They are focused on partnering with
retailers to provide this soon-to-be-standard delivery amenity.

They are differentiating themselves from Postmates in this respect.
Instacart's positioning is as a trusted partner who won't try to compete with
a grocer and eat away at their most profitable categories.

~~~
hn_throwaway_99
I think the parent comment was sarcastically implying that of course Whole
Foods is going to deliver their own groceries now that they are part of
Amazon.

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jimkri
The only time I used Instacart was to order from Costco. That was until I
found jet.com. I will go to jet before amazon now, it is super easy ordering
groceries from them, probably my biggest pain living in Manhattan. Haven't had
any problems and they always drop the bags off outside my door (In a walk up
apartment in Manhattan).

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resters
Sadly, this will reduce my use of instacart significantly. While PrimeNow has
offered Whole Foods delivery, it is only for a small subset of items.

And while PrimeNow has been steadily catching up to Instacart, Instacart is
still significantly better in many ways.

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AJ007
I’m not sure that the low quality of Whole Foods is a good fit for
Instacarts’s brand anymore.

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steve_adams_86
Where I live, Whole Foods tends to offer mid to high grade foods (for the
middle class person at least). What makes you think it's low quality? I can
get live mussels and clams, relatively ethical and fresh beef, good cheeses,
decent produce... There are much worse options. Is Whole Foods not always like
this?

I went to one in California (just North of Monterey as I recall) and it seemed
nice enough too. I live in Canada though, so maybe in the rest of the US it's
not so great.

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fullshark
Whole Foods' quality has definitely taken a massive hit post Amazon
acquisition. The most obvious place I've noticed it is the Bakery, the produce
has less diversity as well. I've also noticed more empty shelves in the
processed food aisles.

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reaperducer
_Whole Foods ' quality has definitely taken a massive hit post Amazon
acquisition. The most obvious place I've noticed it is the Bakery, the produce
has less diversity as well. I've also noticed more empty shelves in the
processed food aisles._

I noticed this as well, and stopped shopping at Whole Foods. Then I went back
in this week to pick up a package at one of the Amazon lockers, and it looks
like Amazon's getting its act together.

No more empty shelves. No more disorganized aisles. No more confused staff. It
seemed like the Whole Foods of old, except that for some reason there was a
rack selling yoga pants by the oranges.

It puzzled me and I stood there trying to figure out if the placement was
deliberate, or accidental. Then a woman came up and took a pair. So, I guess
it works, I just don't understand it.

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stcredzero
_It seemed like the Whole Foods of old, except that for some reason there was
a rack selling yoga pants by the oranges._

That totally seems like the Whole Foods of old to me.

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ohithereyou
There is a discussion about the Medium post announcing this here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18674404](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18674404)

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bhhaskin
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