
Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago - martinoma
http://techcrunch.com/2013/01/14/aaron-swartz-asking-for-help-119-days-ago/
======
jacquesm
Here is the HN thread from back then. Some of it makes for pretty
uncomfortable reading right now.

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529484>

~~~
kyro
Something particularly bugs me about edw519's comments in the thread you
linked to and the recent one about the tragedy --
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5047571>. It's an odd contrast.

~~~
ultimoo
Let's remember the original comment is the top one because it was voted so by
the community.

~~~
bjourne
Isn't the idea to upvote useful and interesting comments? A message can be of
value even if you greatly disagree with the content of it.

~~~
eggnet
Are you suggesting that this is what people should do, which might be a nice
sentiment, but not particularly relevant to the issue at hand.

Or are you suggesting this is what people actually do, to the point of
upvoting a comment past all others to the number 1 position. In this second
case, I think you have a long way to go to prove your point.

------
kyro
I think the takeaway here is to _stop assuming you know entirely what is going
on and give people the benefit of the doubt. There may be more factors
involved than the ones you see; in fact, there always are_ \-- something HN is
notorious for _not_ doing (read: AirBnB, Dropbox, etc, etc, etc, etc).

~~~
specialist
Word. I have been refuted, disproven, turned around 180, subsequently
enlightened when more is revealed so many times on so many issues... It's
embarrassing.

I'm trying very hard to be less of an outspoken opinionated blowhard.

And to admit whenever I've been wrong.

------
danso
So this is on the OP, which quotes the Lessig post:

> _For in the 18 months of negotiations, that was what he was not willing to
> accept, and so that was the reason he was facing a million dollar trial in
> April — his wealth bled dry, yet unable to appeal openly to us for the
> financial help he needed to fund his defense, at least without risking the
> ire of a district court judge._

I never understood this assertion. Under what procedural grounds would a judge
punish someone raising funds for their defense? Or is referring to more of a
"the judge will be annoyed at you" kind of sanction?

~~~
mark-r
Presumably the problem wasn't in asking for funds, the problem was in
explaining why the funds were necessary. I read a recent story, probably
linked here on HN, about how standard procedure for the Justice dept. is to
freeze all your funds so you can't afford adequate representation, then dump
so much paperwork on you that you have no chance to defend yourself. All of
this would have been facts related to the case which the judge could easily
gag.

~~~
darkarmani
How can a judge gag the defendant from speaking out? I don't really understand
this.

~~~
jacquesm
My best guess is that it may be to avoid polluting a future jury.

------
grandalf
This is TechCrunch playing the role of Jerry Springer.

In spite of the way many interest groups are trying to make Aaron's suicide
into a symbol, the fact is that suicide is simply a symptom of mental illness,
and _nothing else_.

Unless we have reason to believe otherwise, most of us assume that those whose
actions/views we discuss on HN are of normal (average) mental health.

So while Aaron's death is jarring, it's the mental illness that is jarring and
not the nuanced view expressed by edw519.

TC must be hurting for clicks/readership these days. I think that story (sadly
the current top story on HN) is a new low.

~~~
DanBC2
> the fact is that suicide is simply a symptom of mental illness, and nothing
> else.

This is simplistic and wrong.

Mental illness is a factor in some attempted or completed suicides.

But is mental ill health the only factor? No. There are many things that
contribute to someone attempting suicide. Significant factors include debt,
relationship breakdown, recent release from a MH hospital, previous attempts
at suicide, a relative who completed suicide, etc.

Many people have mental ill health, and not all of them kill themselves. The
difference between the people who try suicide and those who don't is not
severity of illness, but severity of other pressures.

~~~
nandemo
grandalf's comment is inaccurate, but it's also a sort of understatement to
say that mental illness "is a factor in some attempted suicides or completed
suicides". It's by far the biggest factor.

> More than 90 percent of people who die by suicide have [depression and other
> mental disorders, or a substance-abuse disorder (often in combination with
> other mental disorders)]

[http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/suicide-in-
the-u...](http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/suicide-in-the-us-
statistics-and-prevention/index.shtml)

~~~
grandalf
Exactly, I didn't mean to generalize to claim that mental illness is the only
cause, but I would say that mental illness is the common thread in 99%+ of
suicides.

------
sethbannon
As the OP of the HN thread in question, the response then saddened me. But
that pales in comparison to the grief I feel now. I hope HN takes this as an
opportunity to reflect and introspect.

~~~
jacquesm
I completely missed it at the time and I feel that I'm a complete fool because
of that.

------
thaumaturgy
On the one hand, it is probably unlikely that HN could have done much to
prevent Aaron's death. He was facing a terrible situation, one that he could
not bear to face, and I doubt anyone here could have substantially changed his
situation.

On the other, I can think of few things worse than facing a terrible
situation, and feeling like you're doing so completely _alone_. The amount of
speculation and analysis of Aaron's case here on HN was absurd (at one point
prompting my only comments on the matter,
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4544693>), and yet for all that analysis
and speculation, there were ever so few comments that came out fully in
Aaron's support.

Then he takes his own life, and suddenly it's torches-and-pitchforks for the
prosecuting team, it's "why didn't he ask for help", it's "this was unjust",
it's "this was unfair", it's "why didn't he have more support". I felt
saddened by the news, but I also felt a rising amount of bile for the HN
community, and I'm glad that nikcub and Arrington have shone a light on this.

~~~
danso
I dunno...as you say, having a community behind you, especially one you count
yourself a respected member of, feels much better than going at it alone. I
don't know if I had read his defense fund thread and didn't care enough to
register a comment or just missed it...either way, I feel a little guilty of
not inquiring more about how his case was actually going. I didn't know him
personally but was absolutely crushed to hear the news, more than I had
imagined I would be.

------
lancefisher
I distinctly remember that thread, and not commenting. I was disappointed at
the responses. I had given a small amount towards his defense fund since I
thought his goals were worthwhile. I consider it a privilege to have
contributed.

Now, I wish I had given more, and I wish I had commented on that thread.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." -
Edmund Burke

~~~
graue
That Edmund Burke quote just spurred me to donate $X (where X=a substantial
amount relative to my income) to Demand Progress in Aaron's memory. Thanks.

------
austenallred
I think this speaks a bit to the mentality of technical people.

Your job is to find things that suck and call them on it/make them better.
Unfortunately this tends to carry over into all aspects of life, that we can
be/are overly critical of everything. Look at almost any great tech/design
mind - they can be overly cynical at times.

One of the skills I respect most in a technical person is when they can say,
"I hate this, but I love this" at the same time. Or better yet, "You're good
at what you do, but this isn't your best work. X is good, but Y really sucks,
fix the Y."

Honestly we have a long way to go regarding dealing with people.

------
staunch
It must have been hard on him to see his peers throwing him to the wolves. I
think he could have tried harder to appeal to the hacker community, or maybe
he couldn't for legal reasons, and that's yet another travesty revealed here.

His case was muddy. He did a few things that most of us would never do without
expecting to be punished. He deserved a slap on the wrist, not to be robbed of
his assets and locked up for years.

I think HN would have rallied to his cause after we realized how
disproportionate the punishment was. I remember personally thinking things
seemed weird, but was naively optimistic that it would turn out fine.

Lesson learned, the very hard way: it can't hurt to rally around someone even
if they're not 100% in the right, if it looks like they're being bullied.

~~~
spinlocked
Well said.

------
chernevik
I see zero inconsistency between on one day saying that someone should take
personal responsibility for their activism, and on another day regretting that
this same person took their own life.

The notion that Aaron's legal position caused his suicide is an opinion of
many people on this board. Despite the numbers of those holding this opinion,
it is still only an opinion, and needn't be read as fact for any other
analysis or opinion. The insistence that everyone hold _your_ opinions for all
of _their_ opinions and moral calculations is, at very best, deeply
problematic.

~~~
spinlocked
You could perhaps see the consistency also between rallying round a cause and
making a difference to the status quo.

These "opinions" are shared by his family, read the statement.

_You_ are problematic.

~~~
chernevik
You are advocating for your beliefs (here, ironically, freedom of information)
by insisting that others surrender their freedom of thought.

I don't mind causing problems for people doing that.

I am terribly sorry for the family and their loss. But that loss does not make
them arbiters of responsibility.

Neither do the needs of any cause give anyone the right to dictate what others
think or conclude or hold as fact. I could agree with your "cause" 100% and I
would still, I hope, oppose this sort of demand for mindless conformity with
"correct" opinion.

------
param
This is BS. edw519, and most of us, are not politicians. We should be free to
believe in something to the best of our knowledge at any time. I have changed
my perspective on almost everything I have ever believed in based on what
information I come across.

To hold him, or anyone else for that matter, hostage to what he said 120 days
ago is dishonest.

------
ISL
Bummed to see this thing dropping like a rock off the main page.

24 points in 26 minutes should have this article in the #2 slot, not #26. Is
HN downmodding because it doesn't like the mirror?

    
    
            #pts    hr      min
            130     2       0
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            120     4       0
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            52      3       0
            165     6       0
            15      1       0
            65      3       0
            93      5       0
            26      2       0
            232     10      0
            35      3       0
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            24      0       26
            194     11      0
            28      4       0
            115     9       0
    
    

_edit: something changed - now it's at #3... sufficiently many upvotes?_

------
intenex
The primary thing that stands out to me here, and what I believe is the main
point of the TC post, is that edw and others clearly have very interesting
'before' and 'after' posts.

Before: "Aaron should man up, take responsibility for his actions, and pay his
own bills."

Then: Aaron can't pay his bills, decides to take one form of responsibility
and kills himself.

Now: "OH NO! Stunned & heartbroken." "Thank you, Cory. This wonderful post
will bring understanding (and maybe even comfort) to many of us who are sad
and confused today. It will also probably save some lives."

It's not that Ed is to blame for Aaron killing himself, it's that there's a
marked change in sentiment and sympathy after his death.

Did it really have to take Aaron killing himself for us to change our
sympathies towards him? It seems not many of us really cared that much until
he hung himself - and now we can't stop talking about him.

So the point I'd like to make is there's something wrong with a world that
only cares after you kill yourself. Maybe Aaron even made the right choice is
this is really how it works. Otherwise he might have quietly lived out his 50
years in prison and died later and no one would have given a shit the entire
time. At least now this is getting some attention.

~~~
Mz
In most cases, people simply don't know how bad it is or can't imagine it
could be that bad or have no idea how to help, etc. It makes me crazy and I
wish the world were better about such things. Yes, it took his death for
people to "care", because his death was clear information about how very bad
it was. People are still talking in part to try to figure out how to see it
more clearly beforehand next time and not have to wait for such a clear
signal. At least I hope that is part of the motive, for some people.

------
AndrewWarner
edw519 is a good member of this community. Let's not turn on each other.

After researching founders for my interviews I can tell you that it's easy to
make anyone look bad based on old posts. It's much harder to stay focused on
what's important.

~~~
mrtron
It is rather unfair to single one person out too - the sentiment of the
initial thread was in line with edw519's comments.

------
joeco
It seems significant to me. There are a lot of users on HN whose default move
is to criticize whatever story just made the main page. Maybe that's not the
best default position.

~~~
_delirium
Here's a long discussion thread from mid-2012 sort of on that subject:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4396747>

Paul Graham also mentioned somewhere that he's been collecting examples of
"middlebrow dismissal" as a common kind of default response, in an attempt to
understand/combat the phenomenon.

~~~
mnicole
Like a commenter upthread mentioned, I think it's a combination of that and
people upvoting names they recognize or that the community knows as/sees as
"voices of" the community. They just take their word for it given past posts,
rather than having it occur to them that maybe this topic isn't actually their
forte. Additionally, someone taking the time to write out rebuttals just to be
downvoted and "told off" with pointless and degrading one-sentence rebuttals
is pretty pathetic.

------
diego
Michael Arrington has written his share of trollish articles, but this is just
mean spirited. I have a hard time remembering anything so hypocritical and
hindsight-biased written after someone's death.

I will do my best to avoid reading anything written by Arrington from now on.

------
andrewtbham
"unable to appeal openly to us for the financial help he needed to fund his
defense, at least without risking the ire of a district court judge."

Considering the outcome... Does anyone know an example of what judges do when
defendants appeal openly for financial help? Was this really good legal
advice?

~~~
jacquesm
I suspect - but this pure conjecture on my part, IADNAL and so on - that this
may have something to do with prejudicing a potential jury. Any jury member
that knows about a case before being sworn in is automatically disqualified.
Giving potentially nationwide attention to your case by running a funding
drive in your name would pollute any potential jury.

Again, please don't put too much weight on this, it is purely speculative but
it is the best I've been able to come up with so far.

A quote on this subject: "One of the most important reasons for not selecting
a member of the panel to sit on the jury is prior knowledge of the case."

Source:

<http://www.therightjury.com/publications_real_purpose.html>

~~~
wavesounds
I think he should have risked pissing off the judge and getting the word out,
but hindsight is 20/20. Its sad this is the way our justice system works,
feels like a modern day witch trial.

~~~
danso
...unless you're on the other end of it, facing a media-friendly opponent who
uses the public spotlight to demonize you before you face off in court...

------
caf
_"...judges hate it when parties talk publicly about their cases."_

This seems _very_ unjust, when the prosecutors love to hold a media circus
where the handcuffed "perp walk" is the star attraction.

------
AlexMuir
So people told it as they saw it.

That's the way hackers work and speak - and that sort of frankness is one of
the major reasons that HN remains outstanding in terms of signal vs noise. We
don't escape everything with weasel words and second-guess the way it's going
to be interpreted. Commenters say what they think. Voters agree or disagree.

Yes, it comes back to haunt people. Yes, people are wrong on here every single
day. But that's the nature of the discourse, and it will be a sad day if HNers
start to worry about voicing their opinion because it could be taken the wrong
way.

And, to pre-empt what I know will come, NO-ONE ever has all the facts. Ever.
If we needed all the facts before we formed an opinion then we would have
none.

------
mscarborough
To the HN elite (edw519 and tptacek): good on you for commenting on almost
every thread, it's gotten you the most 'karma' possible.

Unfortunately, it means that when you jump into a new thread and contravene
your other clearly-stated positions, it's a rather transparent attempt to get
more attention.

You're not part of Aaron's family, you're not related, and your own words were
pretty clear as to what you thought about the guy:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529484>.

For the love of all things good, can people who didn't care in the first place
about Aaron or his cause stop their fake sympathy now that he is dead? I
didn't do anything for him either, but not going to cry any crocodile tears to
show everyone how politically aware and smart I am.

------
iskander
I don't think this post should be here-- it's turning a tragedy into a witch
hunt. I don't think this level of negativity and mob mentality is appropriate
for HN.

~~~
unreal37
I agree. What an ugly turn of events after a tragedy already.

------
MrScruff
And the witch hunt continues. This is all very reminiscent of the furore
around the prank call nurse who committed suicide in the UK, with people
calling for the unfortunate DJs to be charged with murder. I would have
expected a more rational, dispassionate response from this crowd.

------
d0m
I'm convinced there has to be something _bigger_ than that trial. Trying to
rationally explain a suicide by pointing fingers at prosecutor might relief a
bit of guilt for some but it's IMO naive. As far as I'm concerned, Aaron
committed suicide because he didn't want to live on this planet anymore. He
tried so hard to change things, to make the world better. And he actually
succeeded, but that probably wasn't enough for a brilliant mind like his.
Could it be that he was disgusted at how indifferent people were? By people, I
mean _most people_ , not just the governments or some particular entities.

------
richardlblair
This is dumb...

A person can disagree with an individual's actions and still be sad when that
person passes away.

There was no need for this by techchrunch. In fact this article is useless,
and complete bullshit.

This article does nothing productive, it adds no value to anything, but only
takes away from the whole situation.

------
InclinedPlane
I'm not sure why I'm commenting here, I expect it'll just be shouting into the
void given the nature of this thread. However, there are some things that rub
me the wrong way about all this, so maybe I'll try to make a few points.

One thing that's been bugging me is how, to be blunt, intellectually lazy so
many people seem to have been about this whole thing, especially the case
against Aaron. Everyone is looking for the easy answer, the soundbite that
wraps the whole thing in a bow. I thought that HN was a bit smarter than that,
that's a sucker's game, it's a game for tabloids and cable news, not a way for
smart people to approach complex problems. And this is a complex problem with
no easy answer. The case against Aaron was complex. The law involved was
complex. And the application of the law was also complex. It's not as easy as
"he was innocent!" or "he was guilty!", because even if either one were easily
established in the "court of public opinion" then that's really only the
starting point of several much more difficult questions.

I think it's probably fair to say that guilty or not the prosecution was
overzealous, as the sorts of punishments he faced was all out of proportion to
what one would expect for a white collar crime, even one potentially involving
thousands of dollars of losses.

In the same vein people have been reacting to this tragedy by trying to find
scapegoats. Whether that's the prosecutor, or edw519, or MIT, or whomever. I
don't think I need to spend time addressing why that sort of behavior is a bad
idea.

Going back and looking at the comments in the older thread about Aaron's legal
troubles I've spotted a few instances of several trouble behaviors that I've
noticed have become more and more common. One, the idea that "rich" people are
less deserving of sympathy because of their wealth. I've seen this in the rise
of the "99%" mentality and other phenomena. Personally I don't think there is
any amount of wealth that renders an individual's pain and suffering unworthy
of caring about. Two, the idea that punishment is reasonable after being
charged but before being sentenced, or infliction of pain and suffering in
general as a response to crimes. You see this sort of thing in support for
torture, support for poor conditions in jail, sympathetic depictions of police
brutality in fiction, public approval of widespread sexual assault in prisons,
etc. And you also see it in the idea that there's nothing wrong with a trial
being a punishing, life-altering, resource draining experience.

I think these sorts of things are antithetical to the ideals of liberty,
equality, justice, rehabilitation, etc. that we should desire our societies
rest upon, rather than base instincts like jealousy, revenge, punishment,
retribution, schadenfreude, etc.

I don't think this saga bears much, if any, similarity to a fight between
absolute heroes and absolute villains. I think that even in as much as the
prosecutor was overzealous it's as much a systemic problem of the way that
computer and IP related "crimes" are perceived and handled by the criminal
justice system as it is to be due to any ill-will or villainy on her part.

I'd much rather we, HN and the tech community in general, were taking the time
to talk through the details of the case more carefully, discussing the details
of the relevant law (and whether it's well grounded, meaningful, useful, and
generally well applied), and bigger issues such as IP issues, computer
security issues, problems with our criminal justice system in general, etc.
than looked for quick-fix easy answers and tried to fit this story into a
simplistic mold. I wonder what sort of discussion Aaron would have preferred
take place.

~~~
nextstep
Exactly. In a few sentences, edw519 took apart Aaron's whole life and claimed
to know enough to write off his plea for help. I think a good first step would
be for Ed to apologize and stop trying to defend his rude comment from 4
months ago.

~~~
mercurial
Oh, please. What is this, a witch hunt? Or maybe some good old-fashioned
lynching? Hang the prosecutor on one tree, and Ed in the other tree? Or maybe
we should rename HN 4chan, because the general maturity level does not seem
very different. How many of those valiant defenders of Aaron put a dime in his
defense fund?

Clearly, plenty of people agreed with Ed at the time, enough that it was the
highest-rating comment. Similarly, plenty of people (at least in the US) agree
with tough-on-crime policies. Singling out people, name-and-shame, etc is
something only relevant in so far that the actions of an individual deviate,
in a bad way, from community norms. This is not the case here.

------
meric
I remember wanting to contribute, but didn't after finding out he was the co-
founder of a successful startup.

I also remember, half a year ago, looking at his comment history that
seemingly appeared as if he was fine, thinking "How is this guy taking it? If
it was me I am not sure I'll be able to handle the pressure".

I realise now he was only human, like us, and everyone needs other's support
in their darkest times, but it's too late.

------
ChristianMarks
The principle of free information transmission must extend to its advocates:
if you advocate that information must be free and you engage in civil
disobedience, then you ought to expose your finances to the world when
requesting support for a legal defense fund. Exposing one's finances at such a
time demonstrates adherence to principle, and it blunts skepticism.

------
Irishsteve
Why would it be a surprise that people change their opinion or become more
vocal after something serious occurs to the people involved.

~~~
rhizome
This is Techcrunch, all they're doing is combing back through his public
postings to find something they can inappropriately hype as significant.

~~~
Irishsteve
I suppose everyone needs a living.

------
Jagat
On the other hand, the comments on this post (120 days ago) is quite
supportive of Aaron and criticizes the govt for its harsh indictment.
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4528083>

------
h2s
It must be quite easy to generate cheap melodrama such as this when you can
use the front page of TechCrunch as a glorified "retweet" button.

------
jbail
It's pretty hard to read that thread. This is a good lesson in giving people
the benefit of the doubt. Always.

------
ameen
_If only most knew then, what they know now._

It's saddening that a positive response to that appeal _might've_ actually
helped him - both mentally and financially.

------
ricardobeat
What a sorry post. This is the kind of thing I expect to be banned from the
front page.

------
edanm
A few months ago, edw519 made a comment that many here feel was inappropriate
given that we now know more facts, and given that Aaron committed suicide. So
the lesson people take away is: "Be careful about what you say to people, even
on HN: your words may have a real effect, and being dismissive or mean to
people may just haunt you later".

This is a good lesson, in general. But what I love is the irony - the way
people are sending out this message _is by being dismissive and mean to
edw519_! If (God forbid) something ever happened to edw519, and someone in 4
months posted this thread, the same people condemning edw519 will b IN EXACTLY
THE SAME SHOES as they think he is now. How are the people posting so blind to
this?

Note: edw519 is a great person and member of this community. Despite the
lesson that I believe can be learned from this post, I absolutely DO NOT think
he did anything wrong, and thinking otherwise is clearly because things look
different in hindsight, especially given more information. Seriously edw519 -
consider this another person who is sure you did absolutely nothing wrong.

------
Skywing
It does kind of suck to look back and realize that his own people turned their
back on him, though. Not very hacker of us, sadly. I remember reading that
article originally, and obviously looking back I wish I had taken some kind of
action. Didn't have to be money, I'm sure, but something would have been
better than basically rejecting his plea for help in a condescending tone.

------
drivingmenuts
Asking that someone own up to their responsibilities or shoulder their own
problems is ABSOLUTELY NOT the same as wishing them dead.

------
rdl
Ugh. I wish I'd seen that thread originally, but I was on my first vacation in
years, and not reading HN for some reason.

I couldn't give him much money, but it sounds like just talking to him about
the case would have helped, and I doubt even people who thought he did the
wrong thing or should have gone to jail to continue his protest would have
begrudged him that.

Sorry, Aaron. :(

------
jimmytucson
When you say that a person who committed suicide "asked for help", it makes it
sound like he reached out for emotional support in a time of desperation.

While that might have been partially what Aaron was doing, I think the
headline leads you to picture a horrifying scenario in which the young man's
death might have been avoided, if only the community had been more encouraging
or sympathetic. Instead, you find that he was asking for financial support,
and there's of course no reason to believe that sending him money could have
altered the tortured course that ended with him taking his own life.

It may seem like a trivial point but in my opinion it completely warps this
whole conversation. For example, suppose someone shares with you that they
have been terribly depressed and contemplating suicide. In this case, I agree,
telling them to "man up" is pretty bad form. But that is not _exactly_ what
happened here.

------
eranation
Can we be a little nicer?

There were nasty comments about Aaron in that HN post, which got nasty
replies.

There were nasty comments about Ed in this thread, which got nasty replies.

There were nasty comments about Michael in the linked post, which got nasty
replies.

We can say the most criticizing things in a way that is not nasty, how? but
putting question marks instead of exclamation points. By talking about facts
and not opinions. By being aware that the persona we are taking about is also
a person, by always thinking what if I was on the other end of that comment.

Is there any drawback in being nicer? I can't think of any. Is there any
benefit for being nasty? I can't think of any either.

------
jordanb
Allow me to make a confession:

I didn't think much of Aaron Swartz while he was alive. Most of his writings
seemed self-absorbed to me. I had difficulty understanding how someone with
his politics could be a mac fanboy. People I think highly of (Chris Webber,
John Sullivan) thought highly of him so I was induced to give him some benefit
of the doubt on those grounds, but I certainly couldn't understand what they
saw in him.

I assumed he was a millionaire with enormous resources that he was using to
thumb his nose at powerful people. I felt that if I had the resources (I
assumed that) Aaron had, I would use them differently.

I saw the thread about Aaron's campaign fund and I didn't post, but I did read
it.

And I read Edward's comment and I agreed with it.

I knew very little about Aaron's case. But the way that fund was being put
together seemed underhanded to me, like he wanted to take people's money
without really acknowledging it. Is he a millionaire or not? I wondered, and
if not, why doesn't he come out with it and explain what happened?

Of course now I know of the existence, from Lawence Lessig, of the bizarre
Kafkaesque muzzle the judge had on Aaron, but how could anyone who wasn't very
closely familiar with Aaron and his case know about that?

There's a sort of sick serendipity in this for me. Just last week I read
Kafka's The Trial. The word "Kafkaesque" keeps getting thrown around but it's
stunning--- _stupefying_ to me, how many parallels there are between that book
and Aaron's case.

In Kafka, after the protagonist is arrested he's immediately released. The
police even escort him to work and tell him to go about his life. At first he
thinks that's an great thing that he wasn't hauled off in custody, but as the
trial grinds on he comes to realize that being forced to live every day as the
facsimile of a free man being required to do what free men are inclined to do
while carrying the additional burden of dealing with his trial, is itself
torture.

If anyone remembers the bruhaha around Dmitry Sklyarov, or before that DVD
John or Kevin Mitnick knows that this community rallies around men sitting in
jail while the authorities try to come up with a crime to charge them with.
There's no doubt in my mind that if the prosecution had hauled Aaron off to
jail "for downloading some PDFs" the reaction would have been swift and
boisterous.

I've learned a great deal about this country's "justice" system over the past
two days, and mostly I've learned about the special sort of hell it put Aaron
in, and I've come to realize that I was complicit in its work through my
ignorance and indifference.

And all I can say about that is I feel a little bit sick. And that it won't
ever happen again.

------
ramblerman
If anything "Tech Crunch" is the troll of the day.

Is it really such a shock people might inhibit their opinions after someone
has just killed himself. No one expected it to get to this, Aaron probably
wasn't _completely_ innocent, And Our judicial system seems to have failed
him.

Trying to polarize it into some "You're either with Aaron" or "you're against
him" just means falling deeper into this cesspool of a thread.

------
BryantD
It strikes me that another relevant comparison would be the Hacker News
reaction to weev's conviction: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4808676>

------
klepra
Wrong or not, Ed's comment was very cold-hearted, uncompassionate,
pretentious, egoistic even sexist. That said, I see a lot of this in IT/tech
word in general and it makes me sad to work in this field.

------
Jagat
In retrospect, this comment by "mibbitier" is particularly saddening.

"I agree. He was extremely foolish and arrogant at best. I don't think this
belongs on HN. Also didn't he make a ton of money selling Reddit?! :/"

------
scriptdude
HN is the big brother you worship, your hero, the coolest guy you know. Then
one night you find him drunk and coked up sleeping in the backyard in a pool
of piss and vomit.

This topic is the backyard.

------
rhokstar
Leave it to TechCrunch to try to get more views on their website...

------
klepra
Why is this thread not showing among first results? It is heavily up-voted.

------
Tycho
Is that the best Arrington could come up with?

------
wildmXranat
This is sick. I'm at a loss for words.

------
thoughtcriminal
Lets face it, HN and similar discussion sites bring out the worst in some
people, including me.

I'm not going to comment on Ed's unfortunate statements because I've been an
asshat to people in the past too.

It's a terrible thing when you don't have the opportunity to apologise later.

I'm sorry for all parties involved.

------
CyberDroiD
It's an accurate reflection of a subset of visitors of Hacker News. That
subset are those that post here. I don't think they like what the reflection
shows, so it might be a good learning experience.

