
Ask HN:  Am I crazy? - amohr
So I just graduated college in the spring and I have about $1500 in savings that I could spend on the deposit + rent/moving expenses for an apartment somewhere and continue looking for a job, but something in me is telling me there's a better way.  I have a plan, but I want to see if you guys think I'm crazy (If HN thinks it's too out there, then I know I'm off-base) or if I'm going to need more money or what.<p>I have known for some time that there's something different in the brain of an entrepreneur that changes the way they see the world, and I want to find out what that is.<p>So I want to set out to find entrepreneurs, either through appointment or serendipity, and spend a little time with them.  Just get to know how they decided to do what they do, what keeps them going, what their hopes and dreams are, etc.  I posit that there's commonalities to be found there and a lot of insight to be gained from those commonalities.  My contacts are somewhat slim, and it would probably be reasonable to spend a few years building up more, but something tells me now is the time to do this and it's getting harder and harder to ignore.<p>I spent some time as a freelance writer, so I believe I can make the result compelling and interesting.  But there's a lot of things I need to work out, and this is where I need your help:
- Do I have enough money to do this long enough to produce anything of substance? (numbers at the end of the post)
- How should I publish this?  It could be a blog that I update regularly, an ebook that I put together as I go, a physical book (leaning away from this for many reasons) or some combination thereof?
- Can I somehow monetize this as I'm working on it so as to extend my trip?
- How should I pitch the project to potential subjects?  Free publicity?  Altruism?<p>Numbers:
A trip from Chicago(where I live) to NY, boston, New Orleans, Austin, SF, Seattle, back to chicago is 7695 miles.  I'm thinking $700 for gas, oil changes, and some other tune-up stuff before I leave/along the way.  If I eliminate the west coast, this drops to around 4000 miles, If I just do SF and Seattle (this is probably what I'll end up doing) I end up with around 5000 miles.<p>I have no aversion to couch surfing, sleeping in my car or camping, all of which I've done plenty of.  With around 5 days of pure driving, I can spend a month doing this at just over $20/day to spend on food/bribery.<p>My hope would be to get around 15-20 case studies of at least an hour or so interview time, plus maybe shadowing and secondary interviews.  Though this is flexible.  I think this would be enough for a worthwhile product.<p>So.  Am I crazy?  Should I do it?  Suggestions?  Volunteers?  Donations...?<p>Also, you can email me at alex |at| mohrslaws.com
======
tc
If you don't have any other streams of income, you might want to think about
ways you could get $1k/mo flowing into your bank account to keep you afloat
while you flesh this out. $1500 isn't a lot of money, but perhaps that
constraint will just make you more creative.

As for the validation that you're seeking, I've seen people do much crazier
things that have turned out well. Which is all to say that, yes, the idea is
crazy -- maybe even just _crazy enough_ to work if you are committed to it. It
sounds like the downside risk to you is pretty minimal, so why not?

To get you started, here's your first tip from an entrepreneur: don't be too
attached to the outcome you have planned now. Just like in a startup, once you
start on your adventure, you may find that going in a different direction
looks more promising. Take the first step, then go where opportunity leads
you.

~~~
amohr
The point of doing it on such a small budget (besides being how much I have)
would be to force me into making it up on the fly. The project is deliberately
structured to be somewhat open-ended.

~~~
jhancock
So long as you have someone to stay with and feed you to recuperate after its
all over, you should go for it. The only thing that should stop you is knowing
that you would actually be living on the street when its over and have little
way of picking yourself back up.

------
odvious
Set up a website to chronicle your journey posting photos, interviews (even
summaries), etc. and put a donate button on it. I wwould donate once I see
you're doing it and committed.

~~~
timdorr
Or if you want to try and get the money ahead of time:
<http://www.kickstarter.com/>

~~~
aditya
+1 on kickstarter - and if you're in NY, I'll give you my couch, the idea is
very compelling and if you're passionate about it, you can make it happen.

Worst case, you lose the $1500 and end up looking for a job. Not so bad, is
it?

------
SwellJoe
Yeah, you're a little crazy, but there's no better time than now to do crazy
things. It won't get easier, cheaper, less stressful, as you get older. I
think you're underestimating the expense of some aspects of this...but if you
plan extremely well and live extremely cheap, you can probably live a couple
months on the road for $1500.

You should start blogging about your plans (your route, what you're taking
with you, who you want to talk to, etc.) immediately...it won't bring in any
revenue, but it will (hopefully) get you in touch with enough people willing
to help along the way. Video might also be helpful. Once you're actually
setting out, you _might_ be able to get enough traffic to bring in some cash.
The blogging process is also good for other things...it makes you a better
writer, and if you get some traffic it might catch the attention of a
publisher or magazine editor.

Also, you can crash at my place when you get to Silicon Valley, if you like.

~~~
donw
I'll donate a six-pack to that endeavor, as long as I get to join in drinking
it. :)

------
joshuarr
You can either do it, or always wish you did. Your choice.

~~~
jbarciauskas
I think there's a corollary to this - if it turns out you don't always wish
you did, it probably wasn't that great. The question then becomes, how certain
are you this is something you will always regret having not done?

~~~
jhancock
The problem is you do not know if its something you regret until you have the
regret. From my experience, the more regrets you accumulate, the more you
learn to not have them and enjoy the process of life.

~~~
dpcan
He doesn't have to "regret" having not done it, just "wish" he had done it for
it to torment him forever.

~~~
jhancock
I don't mean regret having "not" done it. I'm talking about regrets from doing
things and "failing" or fear of that happening.

------
nostrademons
How able/averse are you to living with or taking money from your parents while
you do this?

I think it's a great idea, but there's no way you've got enough money to do
this and take it to the point where it's publishable or monetizable. $1500 is
like one month's rent in SF. While you can stretch that out by couchsurfing or
camping, there'll be a lot of other expenses (gas? car breaking down? cell
phone bills for all the calls you'll need to setup interviews?) And you'll
need a lot of time to condense your interviews into something worth reading,
and then more time and money to publish it (even if just online).

Again, I think it's a great idea, and it could work well if your parents don't
mind you bumming around the house while you collect your notes and make it
into a book or blog series or whatever. But if you don't have their support,
it may be better to spend a year or so working and save up $10-20k first.

~~~
amohr
My mom would bankroll my phone bill and probably some other things. She also
has her own business, so I could work for her while I compiled my work.

~~~
jhancock
thats what I assumed...you got momma to back you up, she's not gonna let her
child starve ;). go for it!!

------
hristov
Sorry to rain on your parade but perhaps you should think about getting a job
first. Your savings are not much and if that is all you have in the whole
world you can easily get in trouble (imagine, for example a car crash in the
middle of nowhere).

And even if everything goes smoothly you can find yourself at the end of your
adventure with no money at all. Of course you can set up a donations site but
you never know how much donations you will get.

A good way to hang out with entrepenurs without risking your neck would be to
get a job with a start-up or a small company. Or you can start a consulting
biz that helps small companies (such as website creation, fixing setting up
computers, etc.)

~~~
natrius
It sounds like his mom is willing to back him up if he goes broke. If that's
the case, I don't see any reason not to do it.

If you make it to Austin, you can probably sleep on my air mattress and I
might be able to introduce you to a couple of people.

------
donw
You're totally nuts. And can crash at my place for a day if you end up in the
silicon valley as well.

~~~
adatta02
agreed. you're welcome to crash at our pad in Boston as well.

~~~
dreeves
ditto Manhattan, if you don't mind getting woken up at 7am by a 2-year-old.
PS: as someone below says, ditch the car!

------
mdoar
Do it, because you'll not get time to do five years from now, and you might
even meet someone who'll want you for a job. Just don't expect to necessarily
return from it.

~Matt (met my wife while travelling and ended up in the USA)

------
bemmu
How about reaching out to Mixergy and see if he needs any help?

~~~
AndrewWarner
I'm happy to help. I like this idea a lot.

~~~
amohr
uh oh - Mixergy's giving me a 500 error...

~~~
AndrewWarner
I know it's driving me nuts. Sorry.

------
jmtame
you're not crazy, this would make for a good read. it's like founders at work,
but improvised and down in the trenches.

we have a tent you can borrow for a few nights if you'd like, won't charge.
look up the palo alto hacker house and if interested email me (jared /at
graffitigeo /dot com). we have people who have dropped out of school, left
jobs, etc. and would probably be open to letting you profile a bit.

------
Eliezer
If you haven't made money from writing before, don't count on being able to do
it this time. Making money at writing is super bonus extra hard.

~~~
jk4930
I think the majority of successful people failed many times before (and
after). And his earlier freelance writing is different from starting his own
project (like being a freelance programmer vs. having your own company). And
it really is unimportant whether he succeeds with this project. It will teach
him certainly many interesting things that give him more background -- for
whatever he will do later.

------
JimmyL
You've put enough thought into the idea that if you don't do it, you'll be
regretting it five years down the road, if not sooner. Plus, you're at the
point in your life where you can't screw things up too badly if it doesn't
work.

I would, however, see if I could dedicate an intense two months to building up
a bit more savings. If you can, move back home for these two months. Get two
jobs at Starbucks, don't go out, and take the bus to work. Yeah, those months
will suck - but it will make the fun parts last longer.

I'd also +1 the idea about ditching your car - you are in the perfect
situation for Greyhound/Amtrak: no money and lots of time. Get yourself a
rolling suitcase with a suit container, and life out of that. It will handle
your clothes nicely, and you shouldn't need any more gear for this than a
point-and-shoot digital camera, a little digital voice recorder, and a
netbook. You lose the advantage of having a backup hotel, but you save lots of
money, and most places have shitty backpacker hostels you can crash in as a
desperate measure.

------
lleger
Do it. Just do it.

------
Tichy
Normally I wouldn't advice spending everything to your last penny, but I take
it that if you are broke you'll just stay at your parents house?

If I understood correctly, you plan the trip so that 1500$ pays for the trip.
So on day 1 after the trip you have 0$? Then what?

That aside it is a good idea, probably you'll be invited to lots of things,
get donations, maybe even some chances to work.

~~~
joshuarr
"So on day 1 after the trip you have 0$?"

And a really good story.

------
bufordtwain
You might be a little crazy. Why don't you put the money in the bank for now
and find some entrepreneurs to talk to in Chicago instead of chasing all over
the place? You have 37signals in Chicago and Adrian Holovaty of
Django/Everyblock and that's just off the top of my head. If you want to go on
the road that could be fun as well but just saying.

~~~
3ds
Exactly! There are probably hundreds of interesting people where you live you
could talk to and you wouldn't have to spend so much money on the trip. You
really should just try the whole interview thing at least once or twice before
you head off.

------
bmelton
I don't expect any upvotes on this comment, but if you're in the Annapolis, MD
area, I've got a guest room (or couch if you really want) that you're welcome
to.

------
dylanz
Do it. You just graduated college. This will be an educational breather, and,
it could end up influencing your future career. It's going to be tight on
$1.5k, but where there is a will, there is a way :)

------
ismarc
I'd suggest going about the travel differently. Using a car to get from point
A to point B is insanely expensive compared to other methods. Greyhound goes
practically everywhere (just not on a convenient schedule/time frame for most
people). Also, starting off in Chicago, you've got a fairly major Amtrak hub
nearby where you can reach nearly any point in the U.S. by train for a
reasonable cost as well.

I would set aside enough money to take Greyhound back to wherever you plan to
call home afterwards (from the furthest point away, so you cannot get
stranded), then plan out cost to ride Greyhound from place to place. This
should give you cheaper day to day costs, but puts you at the mercy of where
you're going.

This is where the blog/donate will help out. Put at least a week's notice of
what date you plan on being in which city, look for folks to interview and a
spot to crash. Ideally you'll be able to "tail" someone for a day or two to
really see how their business goes while you're interviewing them. This also
would provide for a very interesting read (a day in the life of a
entrepreneurs, and not just 1 famous guy, even just in the trenches never
heard of them before entrepreneurs). And along the way, share what you've
learned with readers and subsequent interviewees.

~~~
amohr
I agree that a car is expensive, but it doubles it's value by offering me a
place to sleep if I can't find one by other means and serving as a big
suitcase, allowing me to keep clothes straight and my equipment at the ready.

------
anamax
You need to be able to convince your interviewees to participate. What's in it
for them? See <http://scobleizer.com/> for someone else who has solved that
problem.

One problem is timing. It's not sufficient to turn the interviews into enough
money, you have to make that happen at the right time.

I think that your budget is a bit low, but that doesn't mean that this will be
more doable later or that it's not doable now.

~~~
amohr
Yeah, this is the thing that's really bugging me. I don't want to bank on
people just inherently wanting to share their story and calling in favors.
I've got a couple weeks before I can realistically set out, and that will
probably be haunting my thoughts the whole time.

Hopefully, I could offer enough exposure to present an incentive, but this
only really works for the less established.

~~~
lsc
then focus on the less established. there are plenty of really interesting
businesses in the 'exchange goods and/or services for money' category that
have zero chance (and sometimes less interest) of getting venture capital.

Even those that get seed capital are usually interested in talking with
interesting people... and if you do this right you will end up with a lot of
contacts, and thus be a very valuable person, even without publicity. There is
a lot of value to be had in saying "oh, I talked to this other guy last week
who was doing something that would complement your product or service."

~~~
anamax
Second the "focus on the less established".

I suspect that you'll get better stories from folks who didn't get VC funding.
Lots of writers try to get stories from people who are likely to become famous
or already are, but the others are likely to have better stories.

Also, many people want their story told, not for biz reasons, but because the
think that their life has something useful to show other people.

The guy who wrote "The Soul of the New Machine" says that some of the managers
said later that having someone around to chronicle the effort improved the
experience. He wasn't sure if they were joking when they said that they were
going to try to arrange to have a writer around the next time.

In other words, think bard.

------
timwiseman
Definitely an interesting thought. I do have a few thoughts you may wish to
consider: 1\. Consider fewer case studies with more depth. 15-20 will involve
a lot of contacts, possibly a lot of travel which will eat into the small
savings, and limit your depth. On the other focusing on 6-10 but trying to get
in some real time with them (several hours each at least) will let you get a
lot more depth with less travel.

2\. You may wish to carefully define entrepreneur. By itself it means
everything from small business owner, franchise owner, founder of a
traditional, capital intensive company (like Intel for instance), founders of
web/softare startups, and people who make things in their garage to sell. I
have not studied it formally, but I suspect this attract very different
people. Unless you specifically want to do a longitudinal study to compare
between groups, I would pick one. I presume you are talking about web/software
founders, but this should be explicit (or explicitly rejected if I am wrong).

3\. Remember you can publish this in numerous formats in short succession.
There is nothing wrong with starting with a series of blog posts as a near
'stream of consciousness' on the journey, and then follow up with a book that
summarizes, refines, and adds more traditional research/statistics to go along
with the case studies you generated.

4\. Related to 3, don't ignore physical books as a method of publication.
While it is starting to change, there is still a strong bias in many circles
giving books more respectability than other forms of publications. Also, they
are more easily monetized than most other forms.

5\. If you come to Las Vegas I know one software founder and one small
business (retail) owner personally I can introduce you to.

------
peterhi
You are young so it is a good time to make mistakes. Even if it all goes down
the pan you should have something interesting to say at your interview when
they ask you what you did after graduation.

Just one niggle, serendipity doesn't make house calls so you should not make
plans based on it. make things happen. Once you get going however you might be
able to give talks about your journey at tech meets, which should bring up
more leads.

I think that your case studies would need to be days rather than just an hour,
they would also be more valuable that way. Watching what people do will tell
you a very different story than asking them what they are doing. Very few
people are willing to admit that their success is down to plain luck, they
will tell you all about vision and skill and all that other rock star
bullshit. Dumb luck plays a bigger part than people are willing to admit and
you will only see that if you spend much more time with people otherwise you
could end up just acting as unpaid PR for these people.

Also people lie, which is something that is hard to detect in a one hour
interview.

You know, with hard work and a bit of luck ('cause we all need some) this
could be a lot of fun

------
mynameishere
I have no idea what you're asking. 1500 dollars isn't much money, so you
should probably get a job, at least until you sort out your thoughts.

------
tmikew
Do some research on a fellow by the name of Napolean Hill you may find it
interesting.

You will not likely have a better opportunity than now to do this. It sounds
fun to me and I am an old guy. I keep wondering. Why would you not also earn a
little money along the way as needed? Doing whatever.

------
rman666
Heck, tell the entrepreneurs your interviewing your story and ask if you can
sleep in their offices for the night. You'll probably get the real story if
you spend a few hours with them after hours anyway.

Aye, [do your tour-of-interviews] and you may [go broke]. [Stay home], and
you'll [save $20/day] ... at least a while. And [loosing your soul] in your
[cubicle], many years from now, would you be willin' to trade ALL the days,
from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and
[do your tour-of-interviews] and tell [our corporate overlords] that they may
take our [souls], but they'll never take... OUR [DREAMS]!

------
dandelany
You're only crazy if you don't stop in Boulder!

------
jasonkester
I'm a big fan of saving before spending. Go find a job and save up $10k or so.
Get yourself enough experience to make yourself thoroughly employable. _Then_
quit and go take that trip.

Being in debt sucks, and doing what you propose will put you into debt in
about a month. The end result will be several years of working at some crap
company trying to pay it off. Get some savings laid in first, get yourself
into a position where you're calling the shots, then go for it.

------
jacoblyles
Sure. Why not? Just make sure you have someone that can send you $20 if you
run out of food.

Oh, and I'm in San Diego and should have a couch that you can crash on. Email
is in the profile.

------
dankjaergaard
Yes you're crazy :-) I love it!

If you find entrepreneurs who'll be willing to share details like these:
<http://particletree.com/features/web-app-autopsy/>

...then you hit a goldmine.

So my suggestion is to go and find start-ups that are not yet well known and
get no attention from the bloggers, but are willing to share their numbers.

Publish your case stories as freemium PDF's with kickback to the
entrepreneurs.

Best of luck!

------
revorad
Not quite the same thing but Sean Aiken did something similar -
<http://www.oneweekjob.com/>

Sounds like fun.

------
mahmud
Get a paypal account and put a donate button on your blog as you chronicle
this :-) go ahead and do it but keep us posted, you will be fine.

------
prpon
Do it. It's no crazier than this girl who set out to the end of the world back
on a tractor collecting dreams of people.

A great interview on NPR at <http://www.pri.org/theworld/?q=node/14897>

and more information here: <http://www.tractortractor.org/english/>

------
lsc
you are crazy.

but it sounds like fun. if you make it to silicon valley be sure to check out
the hacker dojo in mountain view: <http://hackerdojo.pbworks.com/>

Do start a website, and make sure you give your sponsors plenty of publicity.
But make the project cool.

If I wasn't spending every penny I can on hardware, (or if I wasn't selling
out faster than I can get new servers up) I'd buy some advertising. As it is,
I'd be happy to give you some hosting, if you don't have any, and if you make
it down here I'll buy or make you dinner.

You should pitch it as "I'm doing this really cool thing, and I think you are
really interesting and would add something cool to the project" which should
be true. Be aware that respondents will be motivated both by being part of
something cool, but mostly by the publicity. But then, it's not good publicity
unless it's cool, right?

You probably want to setup the website and build some excitement ahead of
time.

so go out and make something cool.

------
rickdangerous1
As a 30 something man with corporate career, a wife, child, house and mortgage
I say do it. Do it now before you have something to lose. Doing something like
what you're propose, you may find a life path that you could never of dreamed
of. also, check out the life story Napolean Hill. He made a life out of
writing about successful people...

------
NoBSWebDesign
Yes you are crazy. And yes, I say do it. It seems the vast majority of the
time, that the less crazy an idea is, the less it's worth doing.

Also, I'm an entrepreneur in Ann Arbor, MI, which could be an option for a
closer stop if you want to do a trial one close to home first. We have an
extra couch you could crash on.

------
dspeyer
Sounds like you've got interest....

You probably ought to think a little about where you land after this if it
doesn't become profitable, or decide that when your bank account drops to
something ($200?) it's time to stop. On the other hand, this is the time to do
something like this. It'll only be harder later.

------
hash550
Awesome idea. It sounds a lot like the 'Think and Grow Rich', in which the
author (can't remember his name),sought to find and write about the common
traits among successfule people at the time. Updating the idea for
entrepreneurs, particularly for the sw industry, could be an interesting read.

------
QNguyen
I'd be willing to put you up in LA when I'm down there for school (late
September). I can also introduce you to someone in San Francisco who is a UIUC
alum and is running a web dev business (I think there's a few other UIUC guys
there too working with him). E-mail in my profile.

------
petercooper
Please do it. My life situation means I can't do things like this anymore and
I regret it big time.

------
scharan
I don't think you are crazy. Wishing you luck with what you want to do. Just
make sure you post back your experiences on HN. Also, like someone suggested,
blog about it regularly. Will be great to see whats going on with this idea on
a daily basis!

------
alaskamiller
I always wanted to do this too. Last summer I traveled to various cities
talking to early-stage funds/incubators and their participants and learned a
lot. Now I'm working on a similar blogging project. Pinged you!

------
lyime
I don't really know who you are. But you can crash at my place, if you drive
by Portland, OR. I would agree with others, set up a website. People will
pitch in for your trip, funny how it works.

------
cschep
If you're on your way up to Seattle from SF, I live in Portland and would
totally let you sleep on my futon. I'd even share some beers for a good story
or two.

Good luck, and definitely do it.

------
mfalcon
I don't think you're crazy, it's something uncommon and it'll be a great
experience no matter what happens.

If you are happy about your idea, do it without a doubt.

------
mingyeow
do it! hit me up when you are in sf - 650 283 6558 / mingyeow@gmail
(mrtweet.com/discoverio)

(as long as you do not mind my creaking roof - ear plugs provided!)

------
modoc
You're welcome to hit my couch (just outside of Boston) and I"m happy to
regale you with stories from our companies first almost-two years.

------
natch
Damn, I wish I was in the position to think that $1500 was a good chunk of
money.

Yes, you're crazy, which is a good thing. Embrace it. Do it while you can.

------
jsz0
Sure, go for it. Why not? There's very little risk. $1500 is nothing in the
grand scheme of how much money you'll make in your life.

------
jakewolf
Come to NYC and I'll buy you beers while you interview me about my startup.

------
mcav
Yeah. You can crash in Des Moines if you want (e-mail in profile).

------
Modernnomad84
Great f-in idea. Do it.

------
ninjaa
you can telecommute.

------
adolfoabegg
please, do it

------
onreact-com
You're the right kind of crazy if you ask me. People travel on a much lower
budget and I don't mean hobos. Setting up a blog and earning money with it is
not a problem. with an original idea like this you get lots of exposure.

Focus on travel products and advertise with affiliate ads. Get publicity by
interviewing people the world is or might be interested in.

------
mkramlich
If you pass through Colorado I can probably introduce you to a couple
entrepreneurs: the founders of NetDevil (Jumpgate) and Double Encore, at the
very least. I'm also somewhat of an entrepreneur, but just starting out and
but a wee little tadpole in comparison to their success.

------
zackattack
Where did you go to college?

~~~
amohr
University of Illinois - Urbana Champaign

My degree is in Political science with concentrations in computer science and
economics. I also have about half a degree in physics and a whole lot of
coursework (around the reqs for a minor) in math, english, and music.

~~~
jmtame
cool, same here. are you on hndir.com? there is a collection of about 25 or so
hackers for uiuc, many of them would be good to check out.

shoot me an email and let us host you for a few nights in palo alto, no costs
-- jared /at graffitigeo /dot com

~~~
jmtulloss
Found a bug in hndir :). It doesn't recognize @uiuc.edu as an illinois
address. Not all of us changed, you know!

