

WakeMate Update - tdavis
http://blog.wakemate.com/2010/07/06/super-july-mega-update/

======
carterschonwald
I realize that many people who frequent HN are quite grumped about wakemate
(and perhaps rightfully so).

Nonetheless, its worth pointing out that designing and then manufacturing an
electronic gadget (as a single end to end process) is in many ways orders of
magnitude more difficult than shipping a webapp that works on a post IE6 web
browser. Theres perhaps certain regulatory elements that need to be dealt
with, as well as liability issues that just don't happen with normal software,
and thats ignoring quality control issues in manufacturing.

Moreover, somehow amidst being busy with all this (and perhaps wanting to
actually ship both so that theres no CA suit from those who pre-ordered, as
well actually having a product with sales), they're doing a pretty good job
about being open about hiccups along the way, and to in a relatively timely
fashion respond to most nice email requests.

Pray tell hn, how many companies discussed on hn are open about the end to end
design process for some physical product? I can't think of many myself, and
I'd actually really like/enjoy it if once they're comfortably got v1 shipping,
that they take the time to write some more elaborated posts documenting their
whole design through to final manufacturing or something like that.

just my $.02

~~~
jackowayed
It doesn't help that they have an uncanny ability to piss people off with
every major blog post.

They haven't even reached their first major shipment yet, but already:

* They told people in January that shipping Q1 actually meant shipping July 31st.

* They mentioned "premium analytics" or the like and gave everyone fears of having to tack a monthly fee on top of the $50 they had committed to paying for their devices.

* They said that they haven't taken any money from customers yet when they actually have.

None of those are really that bad on their own, but the fact that they've had
3 of these gaffs before the first major shipment understandably gives some
people doubt.

------
ComputerGuru
_Although no money was ever collected from those who have pre-ordered_

Bullsh!t.

Just because they didn't collect the _entire_ cost of the wakemate, they can't
claim not to have collected money. Many here on HN and elsewhere (myself
included) paid the down payment of 5 bucks to get on the waiting list. Of
course I don't care about the 5 bucks, but for them to claim they didn't take
any money.......

~~~
clewiston
I've updated the blog post to reflect what actually happened...

the majority of pre-orders (> 80%), which were through Google Checkout, were
never charged; the Paypal pre-orders, however, were.

~~~
tdavis
To follow up on that further: PayPal quickly limited the account, hence the
move to Google. PayPal funds remain in PayPal and are used to process refunds.

To make it 100% clear: the only entity to profit from pre-orders has been
PayPal, from interest earned on locked funds. We have not made a single dime.

~~~
michaelfairley
More bullshit. I ordered through Google Checkout and definitely have a $5 my
credit card bill.

~~~
tdavis
Did you confirm the charge was never returned? That's how the $1
authentication charge works on our new store; we charge $1 and if the full
amount isn't settled within a couple weeks the $1 is returned and we're
charged a small fee (so pre-orders actually cost us money). If that's not the
case, it's probably a fluke.

~~~
michaelfairley
I apologize for the accusation. I have an email from Google confirming that my
card will be charged, and an email from my bank alerting me to the ($5)
charge, but there is no actual charge on my bank statement (though it was
there at one time).

------
BRadmin
The last update email I was sent from these guys (coincidentally received on
April Fool's) said I'd receive a unit no later than July 31st, as a
conservative estimate.

No communication between then and now, over 3 months, so I emailed them 5 days
ago - no lick of a response.

And can someone clarify this for me, because I have a paypal receipt showing I
sent them 5 bucks:

"Although no money was ever collected from those who have pre-ordered..."

~~~
tdavis
That's odd; we reply to all emails. Where did you send it? Also, check out
help.WakeMate.com; we're very good about managing that as well.

I clarified your question in an above comment.

~~~
Frazzydee
I also sent an email a week ago, and got no response. Sent to
preorder@wakemate.com

~~~
Frazzydee
Update: I got a response within 24 hours after emailing contact@wakemate.com

------
9oliYQjP
Honest question here and I apologize if it comes off as snarky. I'm just
curious. But why is Wakemate pursuing this sort of business model as opposed
to say, producing a few prototypes and shopping those around to gadget makers
who would manufacture and sell them? Gadget makers are notoriously good at
making gadgets, and notoriously bad at making web sites. Even if they were to
steal your idea for the gadget, they'd still farm out the web site and
probably pay $250K to some agency to get that part of the job done. So
partnering with you would make a lot of sense. You might even have been able
to get some up-front money out of the deal.

------
jeb
The big mistake they made was that pre-order. It was a great marketing move in
the start, but when things went wrong, it became their biggest enemy.

Moral of the story: Don't collect any money at all from people till you can
immediately send them what they paid for.

~~~
tdavis
When I first joined the company I felt the same way. Then I was told the whole
story and it made a lot of sense. Basically, without pre-orders, there would
be no WakeMate. They were in the tough position of having to prove the
product's viability to investors and the investors wanted actual credit cards
to prove that viability. At the end of the day, it worked out as best as could
be hoped for given such a bad launch estimate: roughly 90% of customers were
never charged (PayPal being the exception, though the money remains PayPal's)
and investors ponied up enough cash to hire the necessary people and pay for
everything going into the first big run, which all together will end up
costing waaaay more than what those $5 could have bought.

Don't get me wrong, it's still embarrassing to everybody that we've had pre-
orders waiting for so long; that was never the intention. It's a shitty way to
treat our first customers, but it was an honest mistake. Many such mistakes
were made—especially with regard to communication—but knowing what I know now
I don't feel the pre-order taking itself was one. In fact it's probably the
only reason the product is nearly out now.

------
djahng
I'm curious as to why their "About us" page is empty. Beyond their
manufacturing complications, I'm wondering what qualifies them to make
statements and a device that claims to help people sleep/wake up better. It
leaves the door open to everything from "read some academic papers written by
grad students" to "medical doctor with years of sleep research". I'm sure a
quick google search would bring up more info about the founders, but it seems
more appropriate to be able to find it from the company itself.

That aside, this product does seem promising. I typically sleep only 5-6 hours
per night and wake up naturally (without an alarm clock). I feel fine most of
the time, but I do notice on those occasional days that I sleep 8+ hours, I
feel much better. Being able to analyze my sleep with a $50 device at home is
something that does interest me.

~~~
bretpiatt
Here is the background of the Wakemate staff, yes they are qualified to build
a sleep aid device: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WakeMate> Craig has a PhD
from HST, it doesn't get much more qualified than that.

~~~
djahng
PhD from HST in itself is just a credential and doesn't mean much beyond that.
I'm sure you've seen the commercials for "doctor recommended back-pain relief
products" that are being endorsed by dentists...

------
kevinelliott
While many people seem uberly disturbed about the delays and "$5" charges
(under 20% of people who pre-ordered it even seemed to affect), I took the
opposite opinion. I'm excited to see a startup trying to build hardware and
software, all from an original seed investment with ycombinator. It is
suffering from situations most other seeded and angel invested startups go
through, and they seem incredibly excited to improve.

What more could you ask for? Sure, the product. Fair enough, but give them
some slack. It's not like some of the software vaporware we've seen (like The
Hit List for iPhone). I know it must be hard not to be able to get that Venti
Double Whip Quad Shot Mocha until you get your $5 back!

Whatever! This negative response only excited my interest in the product and I
just got done pre-ordering one. And if I don't get it in a couple weeks,
they'll release my $1 hold. Nothing lost. And if it ships, I'll improve my
sleeping habits.

------
martythemaniak
People are taking it too hard on these guys. It's $5 for a nifty gadget, the
lack of which is not the end of the world. I pre-ordered one, and I don't
think their delays are a big deal - probably because you expected that from a
startup.

~~~
axod
I think their bad communication just makes things works (as far as I see).

~~~
rodh257
they have fixed this. They regularly blog, have sent email messages, twitter
posts etc apologizing for the delays and keeping us informed on the latest
updates on shipping, demos of the product to show they are making progress
etc. I'm really not sure what else they could do in the communication regard,
their only problem now is they aren't shipping the product.

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levirosol
Wakemate has done very poorly in setting my expectations. Therefore, I will
set my own.

I'll get charged the remaining $45 in 4Q 2010, and receive the product in 2Q
2011. It will break in 3Q 2011.

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ErrantX
Wakemate are facing the common software "thing", only with hardware :) never
quite finished, always redesigning something, "nearly" there, always 90%.

Will they ever make it?

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Oxryly
Take full and complete responsibility for the fuck-ups and people _will_ give
you a break. No hedging, no explanations... nothing that can possibly be
interpreted as rationalization.

Express only pure remorse and gratitude and the mood will change
_immediately_.

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zaatar
Will the wakemates work with an iPad?

