
Compass Pathways has set itself up to be the first legal provider of psilocybin - jelliclesfarm
https://qz.com/1454785/a-millionaire-couple-is-threatening-to-create-a-magic-mushroom-monopoly/
======
basseq
This is an interesting article for HN. It's spun as a negative, using terms
like "threatening", "monopoly", "controversial", and "retribution".

You could write it the other way, where an immigrant-founded[1] startup is
_disrupting_ the mental health industry.

Frankly, most of this seems like par for the course. _Of course_ the company
is seeking to push their product to market and commercial viability--and the
potential downsides to that rush. And it's (unfortunately) not surprising that
the legal term pursued by the company are more onerous than standard--that
seems to be a common over-step, and I'm glad attention is drawn to it. A good
portion of this seems to be (and excuse my _ad hominems_ ) hand-wringing by
crunchy-granola "psychedelic experts" worried about the "community".

([1] I'm assuming Ekaterina Malievskaia is Russian based on her medical degree
from St Petersburg Medical Academy, and bring it up here because of similar
discussions.)

~~~
creaghpatr
Is it a good or bad thing that it is immigrant-founded?

~~~
dsfyu404ed
You'll be hard pressed to find people in the US who think that someone
(legally) immigrating to the US and starting a business is a bad thing.

~~~
CharlesW
You'd think, especially with U.S. population growth and fertility rates being
so low.

In reality, the current administration is actively working to reduce legal
immigration as well.[1][2] Although the policies are opposed by most, it's not
difficult to find people who support reducing legal immigration as well.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_policy_of_Donald_T...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_policy_of_Donald_Trump#Changes_to_legal_immigration)

[2] [https://www.cato.org/blog/house-gop-bill-cuts-legal-
immigrat...](https://www.cato.org/blog/house-gop-bill-cuts-legal-
immigration-14-million-over-20-years)

~~~
sigstoat
> In reality, the current administration is actively working to reduce legal
> immigration as well.

the chart in that second link shows the family based, diversity and asylee
immigration being cut, but all of the employment/skill-based immigration being
boosted.

that strikes me as at least trying to reflect approval of business-starting
immigrants, though with a preference for younger ones.

~~~
int_19h
The proposals last year included massive cutbacks on H1 and L1 visa programs,
among other things. As I recall, their purported replacements for the work
visa track were much more constrained, so the result was a reduction in
skilled immigration.

But we know that's what that crowd wants, anyway. They haven't exactly held
back in op-eds. CIS, for example, is explicitly arguing for pre-1992 annual
levels specifically for the skilled category, which would imply massive cuts.

------
garyclarke27
Brings back fond memories of foraging in the Welsh Valleys every September
October, millions of them for free (must be the sheep turds) - they were just
as good fresh or dried, mushroom tea - amazing, despite the muddy fragrance,
was particularly good for watching comedy films such as Steve Martin’s The
Jerk or Airplane - used to be literally rolling on the floor with unstoppable
laughter. Of course our Idiotic UK government could not allow such fun to be
had, so deemed this wonderful gift from nature illegal and now turds like this
couple can make a fortune.

------
nyolfen
if they're trying to monopolize psilocybin, they probably should have chosen
something that isn't replicable by a teenager with access to a pressure cooker
and a pasture

~~~
seandoe
You mean pressure cooker and closet.

~~~
idontpost
Gotta get the manure from somewhere.

~~~
seandoe
Don't need manure-- vermiculite, brown rice flour.

~~~
achileas
Even coir (coconut husks) work well, and wild bird seed.

------
techslave
> Quartz is a guide to the new global economy for people excited by change.

You'd think with that mission statement, their headlines would reflect global
and not regional information. AFAICT there are many legal providers of
psilocybin:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_psilocybin_mus...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_psilocybin_mushrooms)

"Below the fold", past the infinite scroll "edge", many of the articles have
country-specific headlines that include "US" in them. Maybe the legality of
psilocybin is too marginal to worry about that, but this article does seem to
be US-specific and not globally oriented. I do wish that there was a brief
intro about legal providers elsewhere in the world. It would add useful
context.

------
ogoldhill
Hi, I'm the author of the article. Thanks for reading, and if anyone has
questions, I'm happy to answer them.

~~~
waynecochran
What are the downsides of legalizing Psilocybin and/or using it for treating
depression?

~~~
ogoldhill
At the moment, there's nowhere near enough research yet to know the potential
downsides of using psilocybin to treat depression. So far, there's only been
one study with 19 participants and no control group. It could be hugely
successful or, as with any drug, it could come with possible side effects.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
Only one study on psilocybin? Globally? Ever? That's kinda amazing; not even
studies in v long-term [mental] health of [former] users?

Edit: Google Scholar shows hundreds of studies, one on the first page (for me)
has >700 citations.

~~~
achileas
On humans using regular consumption? Such research is notoriously hard to get
funding and materials for - much easier on animal models, in the US at least.
There's a reason much of the current research (which is still too little) into
psychedelics is done outside the US.

~~~
ddoolin
Can the U.S. (or companies/groups/organizations) within use those outside
studies to justify things like this? Or is there some requirement that they be
conducted here?

------
0x8BADF00D
> These experts are further troubled by the company’s business structure:
> Having first registered as a charity, Goldsmith and Malievskaia set up a
> for-profit corporation working towards the same ends just one year later,
> and closed their non-profit less than two years after that.

I’m reminded of the “New-Path” rehabilitation centers in _A Scanner Darkly_.
Not only does New-Path produce Substance D, they distribute it and run rehab
centers with burnt out addicts to grow the stuff. Truly scary when you think
about it.

------
inuhj
This article is the playbook of how big business enters new industries. I went
through this all in 2016 when big money started entering the cannabis
industry. The invitations to use people's vacation homes, the fancy dinners,
etc. were all part of the experience. They studied my business model and
replicated it. They hired researchers and pioneers of the industry and then
fired them all within 2 years once they learned everything they need to. In
the end--it makes sense. We don't fit their culture and they don't fit ours.

------
anythingnonidin
Please also read this interview with MAPS (non-profit working on medicinal
MDMA) founder Rick Doblin:

[https://psychedelictimes.com/interviews/lets-talk-about-
comp...](https://psychedelictimes.com/interviews/lets-talk-about-compass-and-
psychedelic-capitalism-interview-with-rick-doblin/)

It's largely in response to this article.

------
mountainplus
Very well written and extensive longform!

I found the link at the end also very interesting.

[https://files.csp.org/open.pdf](https://files.csp.org/open.pdf) ("STATEMENT
ON OPEN SCIENCE AND OPEN PRAXIS WITH PSILOCYBIN, MDMA, AND SIMILAR
SUBSTANCES")

It is not something I have heard about before but is something that is very
calming to read and know.

------
drb91
I must say I take a huge amount of joy watching a corporation try to bend over
backwards to monopolize a fungus that has been enjoyed by humans for millenia.
Is it a surprise that a capitalist industry is more motivated by profits than
by the production of useful goods and services? Of course not: but it is good
comedy. Maybe laughing at the absurdity of for-profit healthcare will be what
saves us all from crippling depression!

~~~
y-c-o-m-b
The article says they are trying to restrict how research on the drug is done
too and that's a catastrophe on its own. No laughing matter here. This might
seem ridiculous on the surface, but it's a sinister move.

~~~
drb91
If you can’t laugh at the news, you’ll cry. Sanity is important.

------
macawfish
We need this. People need this. It's really good medicine.

------
nopacience
It is illegal to prohibit oneself from harming oneself.

This is why drug use will be allowed sooner or later. It has been prohibited
and it is inconstitutional.

Unfortunately, many people have been arrested for harming themselfs only and
not harming others.

If drugged person hurts someone else, then that is a crime. But using any type
of substance to hurt oneself is not a crime.

All the bans will eventually be unbanned.

Its inconstitutional.

------
jessaustin
This is a natural product. One can grow it in the basement of one's home. One
can gather it where it grows wild. (Ask me how I know!) No user of this
product has ever harmed anyone else as a result of using it. Any restrictions
at all on this product could only ever be tyrannical. Let's not abide tyranny,
ok?

~~~
atomical
The blind spot here is that no one really understands how it works or the long
term implications. It may have a use for patients with treatment resistant
medical conditions where the alternatives have failed or side-effects are
intolerable.

Why should healthy adults take this substance? Many of the so-called experts
interviewed in Michel Pollan's new book took psilocybin and believed the
experience revealed the inner truths of the universe. It seemns like it could
be quite harmful for more people to embrace meta-magical thinking.

Related: 1) Michael Pollan is interviewed on a podcast by Tyler Cowen. They
briefly talk about whether psychedelics have contributed to society through
novel discoveries. 2) Robert Sapolsky's lectures and book Trouble with
Testosterone touch on meta-magical thinking.

~~~
sjg007
Well... I think the oneness effect is interesting where people basically feel
interconnected. Kind of like astronauts who see the world from space. That
feeling should be a positive one. It's also not clear it is permanent. It may
impact your degree of openness.

What I've found interesting in his book is that the suggestions of the
therapist lead basically influence the result. So if someone says what will
happen on shrooms you basically have a similar experience. That is
interesting.

Further along the meta magical thinking idea is the stoned ape hypothesis
which basically tries to explain how we were able to transcend "primitiveness"
and develop abstract reasoning and as such technological progress by using
psychedelics. Whether there is evidence for this or not I don't know.. haven't
read the stoned ape book.. It does seem more plausible that magic mushrooms
led to religion. I've been reading Pollan's book as well and the part about AA
12 step and Bill's wanting to use magic mushrooms as part of the process is
very interesting. Turns out that the board allegedly wanted to keep the
straight religion aspect in it for control vs surrendering yourself to
mushrooms. This is partly why psychedelics are being tested on reducing
alcoholism.

If it can help alleviate depression and anxiety I am 100% behind it. So much
time, energy and life is lost to that mindfuck of a state.

* also we don't really understand the long term implication o f a lot of things we eat or drink or the legal drugs we take. Should you eat eggs? margarine? wine? tea? how much coffee? etc..

~~~
achileas
While it's a fun hypothesis, there's no evidence for that (nor the bicameral
mind hypothesis).

------
simplecomplex
“Therapy” is the biggest legal scam in the US.

Feeling depressed? Here have whatever chemical psychologists happen to be
playing with today! Take some mushrooms, no wait, exercise, no wait, take
this, no wait that doesn’t work and is dangerous so take this instead.

“Prior to founding Compass, George Goldsmith and Ekaterina Malievskaia, a
married couple, did not have experience in psilocybin research or working in
the pharmaceutical industry. They’ve made headway thanks to tens of millions
in dollars from investors including Silicon Valley libertarian Peter Thiel and
former Wall Street-executive-turnedcryptocurrency-investor Mike Novogratz,”

Can’t wait until they get into the chiropractic and homoepathic industries
too.

Queue every pot smoker to tell me psyilocybin is a wonder drug and every
square that it’s the end of civilization.

~~~
dang
Would you please stop posting unsubstantive rants to HN? As you know, we're
trying for a bit better than internet default here. Please post civilly and
substantively, or not at all.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

~~~
sierdolij
Thank for your work, dang. Long-form personal opinions seem to be better
suited on Medium, Twitter, other social media.

TGIF! :D

~~~
dang
The ones that aren't unsubstantive or flamey are welcome here.

