
How Science Makes “Rick and Morty” Great - theandrewbailey
http://nautil.us/blog/how-science-makes-rick-and-morty-great
======
ravenstine
I'm getting pretty tired of Rick and Morty fans blowing the greatness of the
show way out of proportion. I love the show, but not because it's "smart" or
"nihilistic' or because it references science. It's a zany cartoon with witty
dialog, and it's hilarious, but to claim it's more profound than that has so
far proven to be little more than reading too far into it. Referencing pop
culture isn't "smart" in and of itself, and it doesn't require extraordinary
intelligence to recognize.

By the way, Rick is not a nihilist. He might be very careless and ambivalent,
but that doesn't translate to any form of nihilism I'm aware of; in the case
of the show, he's definitely not en existential nihilist, and it's arguable
that he's not even a moral nihilist. The rest of the characters on the show
are not nihilists; myopic would be a more accurate description. You want a
really nihilistic show? Watch Seinfeld.

~~~
dsacco
_> You want a really nihilistic show? Watch Seinfeld._

Eh? Do you mean nihilist in the (meta) sense that the show "is about nothing"
and has no inherent meaning? Because none of the characters on Seinfeld strike
me as nihilist either.

That's not to say I disagree with your point about Rick and Morty having
nihilist characters; I don't think Rick is a nihilist, but I also don't think
nihilism translates well to film and television. It's difficult to maintain
compelling character development that can bring in a large viewership if a
character is truly nihilist, in my opinion.

For my purposes I don't believe it's enough to have a character profess
adherence to existential nihilism - I don't agree a character is nihilist
unless they also act like it, and that is fundamentally difficult to do
convincingly. I very often see writers use stoicism, ruthless utilitarianism,
(dysfunctional) cynicism and even atheism as proxies to demonstrate a
character is nihilistic, but none of those really hits it on the mark. I
consider it like free will: you can make extremely compelling arguments that
free will (in the sense of the capacity for non-deterministic decision making)
simply doesn't exist (or is at best implausible), but there's not really a
convincing framework for altering your behavior even if you claim to believe
that. This is _unlike_ atheism or agnosticism, which do have clear behavioral
proxies when you abstract them away from considerations of intrinsic meaning -
simply don't participate in religious communities, gatherings or activities
for its own sake.

~~~
tptacek
No, they mean _the characters_. Virtually every character on Seinfeld is a
nihilist. Nobody on Seinfeld --- with the possible exception of Jerry's
parents --- cares about anybody or anything. Susan dies from licking poisonous
envelopes and they all go out for coffee before George tries to hit on Marissa
Tomei. Jerry's girlfriend gets Jerry to care about things for half an episode,
turns into an anti-Jerry; the episode resolves itself with Jerry being shocked
back into normal Jerry by George temporarily revealing his own emotions. Or,
just compare Kevin, "The Bizarro Jerry", to Jerry himself.

It's a profoundly nihilistic show, in a way that Rick and Morty doesn't even
really touch.

Rick can travel between dimensions and meet infinite alternate Ricks and
infinite alternate Mortys. The show informs us that he knows any one Morty or
any one Beth doesn't actually matter. And Rick _still_ occasionally cares
about them. The subtext of Rick and Morty is almost anti-nihilist.

The nihilism in Seinfeld is presented realistically and non-fantastically and
is so unsettling that people have a hard time even recognizing it for what it
is.

~~~
humanrebar
Kramer chides the group for poor behavior or passivity from time to time. He
helps people with their problems. I'd dispute that he's nihilist.

~~~
tptacek
That's true, but that's part of the joke: only the weirdest, most
uncomfortable of the 4 characters is allowed any humanity.

------
dragontamer
Rick And Morty has a great number of good "science" jokes, but really its more
about general Sci-Fi tropes. (Time Travel, Multiverses, Clones, Aliens, and
Androids aren't really "science" as much as they are about "Science fiction")

But the hardest thing for me was to get used to the straight up nihilism of
Rick. True, there have been plenty of Nihilistic "protagonists" in other
shows: Peter Griffin in Family Guy, Eric Cartman from South Park, Homer
Simpson (depending on the season of course).

But Rick is different: while the other characters are arguably Nihilistic due
to ignorance, Rick purposefully and specifically pursues the "I don't care"
attitude and gets away with it due to his intelligence (while other characters
in other shows seem to get away with it due to literally dumb luck).

That difference continuously pisses me off in Rick and Morty, and as such its
difficult for me to enjoy a lot of the episodes.

Nothing against the fanbase or anything: I recognize that Rick and Morty is a
huge following, and the enormous lines at McDonalds for the special Rick and
Morty Sauce just a few days ago demonstrates that Rick and Morty are the new
"mainstream" cartoon. But its apathetic and malicious main character really
grates on me, and I personally an unable to enjoy it as much as everyone else
seems to.

~~~
yters
I saw one episode and had the same reaction. I thought Rick was going to be
like the professor from back to the future. Instead he's the bright but
shallow kid making all the annoying smart alec comments, with a facile outlook
on life he gets away with due to not having to live in the real world.

~~~
dragontamer
Rick and Morty has a lot of "bad" episodes IMO, where there's nothing in them
except Rick being an annoying jerk.

I was forced to keep watching since a group of my friends continued to watch
Rick and Morty regularly, and I can definitely say that some episodes are way
better than others. "A Rinkle in Time" (Season 2 episode 1) was mostly great
episode for instance, and I can recommend it as one of the best that Rick and
Morty can offer.

I haven't seen all of Rick and Morty: there may be some other really good
episodes in there. But I've only seen maybe... 6 or 7 episodes across S1 and
S2 (and I haven't seen any of S3). I recognize that Rick does occasionally
care about Morty, but seriously, his treatment of Morty is downright abusive
in the vast majority of episodes.

The fact that Rick saves Morty on some episodes doesn't change the fact that
Rick's treatment of Morty is incredibly unfair.

~~~
dwringer
I kind of agree and disagree with the criticisms in this thread. For a while
in season 2 I didn't watch much of the show for pretty much the reasons given
here. Nevertheless, I watched a good bit of the first and third seasons,
including the [IMHO excellent] finale of Season 3 that prompted Elon Musk to
get into a twitter discussion with the show about singularities and partying
like Kurt Cobain. [1]

Rick and Morty are, I think, intended to be more archetypes rather than actual
people most of the time, although sometimes their humanity (particularly
Morty's, which is leveraged for comedic effect) shows through. Rick is
definitely shown to have something of a softer side that he keeps deeply
hidden.

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15424659](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15424659)

~~~
saalweachter
Eh, I would say that Rick incompletely rejects his softer side rather than
keeping it hidden.

He doesn't _want_ to care about anyone or anything; it is how he copes with
living in a crap-sack multiverse where he regularly sees himself or his family
die, or even kills them himself. Hell, we don't even know that his S1 family
was his original family; he abandoned them easily enough in the Cronenberg
episode. For all we know, his Beth did die as a child like in his (false)
memory in S3E1. He might have returned years later to a different universe,
one abandoned by another Rick. We don't know that Morty is his original Morty;
the memories in the flashback episode could have been collected from dozens or
hundreds of Mortys who didn't make it. Heck, even Rick isn't the original
Rick; he has body-hopped through several incarnations on-screen.

So he rejects all meaning, but he's still a human with irrational attachments,
so sometimes he will stop and do something for someone else. But to him, it's
the same as his crippling substance abuse, just one more weakness being
indulged for his momentary gratification.

~~~
yters
Exactly, Rick is a faithful depiction of someone who believes individual lives
are ultimately meaningless, which is implied by the whole multiverse scenario.
Why does it matter if Morty1 is mistreated and is only kept alive for selfish
pleasure? There are an infinite number of Mortys, so Morty1 is nothing
special.

------
dkarl
_Science was one of the few classes that I really responded to in grade
school. You’re learning all the cool, big stuff, about evolution, and we were
seeing those Pillars of Creation, that amazing Hubble image.

It was so fascinating, hearing these big, broad ideas. It would be like, “Now
we’re going to talk about DNA and Lamarckian genetics.” But when you had to be
smarter for it, like, “Now we’re going to use pipettes and study pH balances,”
I was like, “Eh, science is getting a little too sciencey for me.”_

I think this nicely captures the appeal of fun sci-fi adventure series like
"Rick and Morty" and "Doctor Who." Learning mind-blowing new things becomes
harder and rarer as you get older, and sci-fi keeps the experience fresh for
us.

(Also, I was surprised to see them mention a dozen or so sci-fi shows and
authors without a single nod to Doctor Who, which seems like the most direct
inspiration for Rick and Morty. The inscrutable but often joyous magician
traveling space and time with a magical device, constantly getting into mortal
peril yet overcoming armies when he needs to, changing the fate of
civilizations, encountering reminders of his colorful past, traveling humbly
yet openly reveling in his power when he's forced to wield it, his callous
facade complicated by his compulsive and somewhat careless habit of bringing
an ordinary person along. And of course the theme song is an obvious homage.)

------
have_faith
Morty seems to represent our inner scared timid self while Rick seems to
represent our inner projected/desired self. Nerdy introverts can relate to
this duality I think. The science and pop references are just frosting on top
of the themes we can relate to, like a broken family struggling to hold itself
together, struggling to understand your kids, struggling to connect with your
parents, and so on.

Similar to Futurama, the science reference where great, but when I think of
the show I remember the dog sitting in front of the pizza shop waiting for fry
before the science gags.

~~~
LyndsySimon
> Morty seems to represent our inner scared timid self while Rick seems to
> represent our inner projected/desired self.

See, that's interesting, because besides being voiced by the same actor, there
is some evidence in the show that Morty _is_ Rick.

~~~
ravenstine
Do you remember where this is implied in the show? That theory is super
interesting.

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adamnemecek
Right, rick and morty is one of the few things that "science" makes great. The
rest of the sciency mumbo jumbo, meh, boring. /s

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cyberpunk0
Honestly I'd rather have the ridiculous fans than pretentious people here
arguing and nit picking stupid shit to sound more intelligent​. It's a show,
watch it, enjoy it, stop trying to hold everything against some fictional​
ideal model. "Ooh but it's not really THAT existential and nihilistic" who the
fuck cares you hipster; what elements it has in those areas goes well beyond
most other available shows. Much like creating a government to hide from the
government, it's pretty damn hypocritical for you all* to sit here and
complain about other peoples opinions gumming up the show by complaining about
the show with your own overblown armchair drivel. Watch it or don't but shut
the fuck up and move on with your day.

* Of course not actually everyone

~~~
ravenstine
I feel like you're missing the point that people are making. I personally
agree with you when you say "It's a show, watch it, enjoy it, stop trying to
hold everything against some fictional​ ideal model." I don't even have a
problem with people seeing something in a form of art that I don't. If someone
sees a lot of nihilism or even meaning in Rick and Morty, there's nothing
wrong with that.

My gripe with Rick and Morty fans, as a group, is that they seem to make a lot
of claims that come off as arrogance against people who "just can't
understand" the show as they see it. I know a lot of Rick and Morty fans in
real life, and I do like the show myself, but I've even met people offline
that seem to believe that being a fan of the show means you're of some apex
intelligence. I nitpick these claims because they're often made through an
objective standpoint, not a subjective one. I have no problem with subjective
views, but once I'm told "Oh this thing is so nihilistic, so intelligent, so
smart... you just don't get it", of course I'm going to refute those points
when I find little basis for them.

I normally don't let public opinion dictate what I should like, but a lot of
fan behavior I've experienced is so toxic that I'm now having difficulty
having anything to do with it. I mean, waiting in line at McDonalds and even
jumping the counter for some freaking sauce packets mentioned one time in the
show? That's so over-the-top pathetic, I feel kinda gross even thinking about
it. I shutter to think that they, many of whom are grown adults, are going to
become parents.

> what elements it has in those areas goes well beyond most other available
> shows

What are some of those elements?

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onion-soup
Yea right, turning into a pickle is very sciency

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louithethrid
I think the true selling point of R & M is that the plot defies expectations,
not by simply going to the contrary but by turning left of the hero road,
following a insane idea and sticking to it until the trophe falls apart and
something i call messy realism appears. What would happen if you hang around
the borg? Oh, turns out the hivemind is people too. And so on, and so forth.

Rick and Morty is "just" great Tv showing how much on rails all the other
plots in all the other shows usually are. My problem is, that i think the show
has no overall arc - and that they desperatly will try to glue one together.

~~~
davidivadavid
No overall arc is the ultimate test of creativity. That's why Seinfeld (or
arguably The Office) are so impressive to me. It seems like R&M is headed in a
similar direction, since they take a lot of pleasure in pretending like
they're building an arc and then resolving it in the most anti-climactic way
("Anyway, that's how I escaped from space prison!").

------
bdz
Rick and Morty is a prime example of things that have been destroyed by its
own fans. Arrow (Olicity...) or Undertale is also a really good example.

~~~
gggdvnkhmbgjvbn
True and succinct, although "destroyed" is excessive -- its still just as
possible to enjoy undertale on its own.

R&m though really is a victim of its fanbase. I tried watching the fan
favorite s3e01 with my dad, who has seen all of seasons 1 and 2, and he really
couldnt follow the plot. It made me realize that I probably only liked it
because I watched each episode of seasons 1 and 2 at least twice (the dvd
commentary is great). I'm just going to skip watching the council of ricks
episode from season 3 with him, it's really self indulgent.

~~~
captn3m0
Maybe do a rerun of the council of ricks episode from Season 1 with your dad
instead? As one of my favorite episodes, it feels bizzare that you'd rather
skip it just because it references a previous episode.

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mwulfe
Looks good, but exaggerated infatuation. Come on..

