
German Artists Say They Put White Flags on Brooklyn Bridge - UVB-76
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/13/arts/design/german-artists-say-they-put-white-flags-on-brooklyn-bridge.html
======
suprgeek
The Artists sure made a statement! The truly wonderful part of this action is
that the statement they made was perhaps not the one they intended.

New Yorker's sensitivities aside, this beautifully demonstrated how bat-shit
crazy the govt. & the media has become over terrorism fears. The NYPD did
initially consider this to be an art-project [1]...and had they let it go at
that, things would have been much less embarrassing now.

So an unlikely pair of Germans (allegedly) deserve kudos for exposing the
American scardey-cat responses & massive waste of resources and time that can
be brought about by simple (but unusual) things.

[1] [http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/22/us/new-york-brooklyn-bridge-
fl...](http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/22/us/new-york-brooklyn-bridge-flags/)

~~~
dmix
This quote from the artists summed up the parallel nicely:

> “We saw the bridge, which was designed by a German, trained in Berlin, who
> came to America because it was the place to fulfill his dreams, as the most
> beautiful expression of a great public space,” Mr. Leinkauf said. “That
> beauty was what we were trying to capture.”

Then by effect they captured the beauty of the modern paranoid state where
acts of vandalism spark mass-fear among the administrators - fear that they
somehow aren't maintaining total control.

This is the new nature of public spaces in New York. They are now primarily
security zones, not avenues for creativity.

~~~
this_user
> "Then by effect they captured the beauty of the modern paranoid state where
> acts of vandalism spark mass-fear among the administrators - fear that they
> somehow aren't maintaining total control."

IMO this only goes to show that the real terrorists have actually won. They
knew they could never achieve victory in a direct confrontation, but they
managed to make a country destroy itself by sacrificing its own values over
paranoia. I do wonder if that was their real plan all along or if they
themselves were surprised by how well it worked.

~~~
dublinben
One of Bin Laden's stated goals[0] was to bankrupt the United States. All the
money we've spent on foreign wars and 'homeland security' since 2001 has
certainly come close.

[0][http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/01/binladen.tape/](http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/01/binladen.tape/)

~~~
wavefunction
That's mostly just a transfer of wealth from the middle class to the wealthy
via defense contracting.

------
dasil003
The only thing embarrassing about this to the authorities is their reaction.

It ought to be apparent to anyone that providing perfect security is
impossible, and that pretending we can is akin to a child sticking fingers in
their ears and shouting "la-la-la". I think it's already clear that if we
catch you doing terrorism you'll never see the light of day again, so "trying
to send a strong message" about pranks like this just makes us look weak and
vulnerable.

~~~
look_lookatme
Can you elaborate on the police reaction? Here are some quotes by the NYPD:

""" “It appears to have no particular connections to terrorism or even to
politics,” Miller said. “This may be somebody’s art project or even a
statement.”

But police Commissioner Bill Bratton said the matter was serious nonetheless.
“Needless to say, no matter what the motive was, that is a matter of concern,”
Bratton said. “I am not particularly happy about the event, and have charged
Commissioner Miller to conduct a full and thorough investigation into the
circumstances.”

Miller emphasized that the white flag placement was not funny, and was not
acceptable. “We don’t take these things lightly, or as a joke, or as art, or
within the realm of speech,” Miller said. “These are issues of trespass. They
put themselves in danger. They put others in danger.” """

These don't seem like unreasonable statements. It may seem interesting in the
abstract, but I personally don't care for any random persons crawling all over
the Brooklyn Bridge consequence-free.

~~~
btreesOfSpring
The cover on the New York Daily News on Wednesday July 23, 2014 read, "This
time was a flag, next time it could be a BOMB"[1] for example

[1] [http://wac.9ebf.edgecastcdn.net/809EBF/ec-
origin.nyc.barstoo...](http://wac.9ebf.edgecastcdn.net/809EBF/ec-
origin.nyc.barstoolsports.com/files/2014/07/Screen-
Shot-2014-07-23-at-9.25.35-AM.png)

~~~
baby
How is this not propaganda or FUD? Is the press allowed to do this?

~~~
threeseed
The New York Post is owned by News Corporation. And like all their other
publications their modus operandi is propaganda and FUD. That is how they
became hugely successful so there is no reason for them to change.

As for whether the press is allowed to do it well that's more tied to the US
constitution and it's belief in free speech. Most countries have a more
sensible version of this.

~~~
baby
I always see the argument of "free speech in the US" but there are plenty of
speeches forbidden in the US. See:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_in_the_United...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_in_the_United_States#Exclusions)

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rememberlenny
Im building a service that helps keep track of public art and their artists.
This was a piece I followed, because Im based in NYC.

Flag incident page: [http://www.publicartfound.com/graffitis/bb-white-
flag](http://www.publicartfound.com/graffitis/bb-white-flag)

Updated artists page: [http://www.publicartfound.com/artists/mischa-leinkauf-
matthi...](http://www.publicartfound.com/artists/mischa-leinkauf-matthias-
wermke)

~~~
famousactress
Awesome project!

------
driverdan
What an overblown event which I suppose makes it a success. The fact that the
police force and DA went nuts about it is ridiculous. I hope there are no
legal consequences.

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benihana
> _The artists stressed that when they removed those flags, they ceremonially
> folded them, “following the United States flag code,” Mr. Leinkauf said_

That's really respectful and a nice part of this story. It turns it from an
act of vandalism into a true work of art in my opinion.

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owenversteeg
It's ridiculous that the police are threatening severe consequences. It's a
harmless prank.

~~~
0xdeadbeefbabe
It's their job and maybe even their nature to threaten. Would you feel okay if
they responded with a meme?

~~~
cracell
I'd feel much safer if they could laugh it off.

Responding they way they did is illogical and just reenforces the idea that
many in the American government now see the America people as the enemy.

------
seanflyon
At least they didn't put up a light bright. That would have been terrifying.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Boston_bomb_scare](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Boston_bomb_scare)

------
segmondy
They are quite brave, they must never want to come back to US again. It takes
very little these days to get banned, denied visa or put on the no fly list.

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Houshalter
What is the significance of this? I read the article and found it interesting,
I just don't understand why it's on the top of HN. Stupid pranks like this
happen every day in every city.

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Crito
I'm a little suprised that Mooninites
([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Boston_bomb_scare](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Boston_bomb_scare))
didn't get a mention in the article.

------
lotsofmangos
Interestingly, especially given that any resulting court case will likely
hinge on free speech, when I search for Matthias Wermke on Google from the UK,
alongside the results I get this message -

 _" Some results may have been removed under data protection law in Europe.
Learn more"_

With the _" Learn More"_ linking to a page on the recent EU right to be
forgotten ruling.

This message does not appear for the other artist, Mischa Leinkauf.

~~~
DanBC
That text should appear for all names whether there are removed searches or
not.

In this case Google isn't recognising Mischa Leinkauf as a name.

~~~
lotsofmangos
The results I am getting from google.co.uk do not support that theory at all.

Bob Smith - message saying results removed

John Smith - no message

Sally Smith - no message

James Smith - message saying results removed

Claire Smith - no message

Deborah Smith - no message

Colin Smith - no message

Alison Smith - no message

~~~
yohui
That could just mean Google's algorithm isn't perfect. And Google only needs
to ensure that the disclaimer appears often enough so that people won't assume
its presence means results were removed.

I definite recall it being stated that the disclaimers would be shown for name
searches in Europe, not just name searches with results removed.

~~~
lotsofmangos
Saying it just tries to flag all names, but just doesn't spot "John Smith" or
"Alison Smith" as names, while managing ones such as "James Smith" and "Bob
Smith", isn't very plausible.

------
zerny
Sure, anything can be art these days, even the 4chan post.

------
volune
Extradition in 3, 2, 1...

~~~
happyscrappy
I don't know, they kiss a lot of American ass in the article and it is
essentially just trespassing. Sounds like they want to make sure they can come
back to NYC with no hassle.

~~~
genwin
They're terrorists, because someone in authority thought so, and that's all it
takes nowadays. No way will they be allowed in the U.S. except delivered in
handcuffs to a long solitary confinement.

~~~
ssully
Did people actually brand them as terrorists? My knowledge of this story is an
inital nytimes article when it happened and someone making a rather dramatic
status about it on facebook. I am honestly baffled at how serious this seems
to be for the police.

------
weinzierl
"...hoisting two big all-white American flags". That's a funny slip of the
pen.

~~~
JadeNB
I can understand that it doesn't seem to be a reasonable description (they are
all-white stand-ins for what are usually American flags), but it doesn't seem
to be a typo / slip of the pen—or were you making some joke or more subtle
commentary that I missed?

~~~
bpicolo
I believe he's referring to the fact that an all-white flag is just a flag,
there's nothing American about it.

~~~
dublinben
These were actually very clearly, American flags made in all white. The
typical pattern was existent in the construction, if not the coloring.

------
bane
Maybe I'm old, but I don't understand why this is art and why pulling a stupid
juvenile prank makes the people who did it "artists".

Is art really this dead?

~~~
TeMPOraL
You're not old, it's just that nowdays "art" is defined as "anything that you
can convince few people to call art", the more shocking and disgusting the
better.

On the other hand, I think we should have much more "stupid juvenile pranks".
Society is grumpy and boring nowdays.

~~~
arrrg
That’s a stupid and overly dismissive definition.

Personally I’m all in favor of defining art extremely liberally and to then
have a meaningful discussion about how worthwhile or interesting something is,
without arguing about something as stupid as what is art and what is not.

In the end this is what it is and can stand for itself, whether anyone
considers it art or not. Of course, this classification is potentially useful
for putting it in a historical context (Did anyone else do something similar
in the past? How does this fit in the historical context? What, if anything,
is this alluding to?), but not much beyond that – and art is such a broad
term, so that classification isn’t even specific enough.

Sadly “art” is commonly used as a seal of approval. By calling something “art”
it is implied that it is worthwhile and interesting only by virtue of being
“art”. So this word does double duty as endorsement and classification – and
since obviously no one can agree on what art is worthwhile and interesting and
what not it’s all terribly confusing and inconsistent. It’s a mess. The
discussion about art then clouds and confuses the actually interesting
discussion about what is worthwhile and interesting art.

It should be obvious that finding a definition of art that includes only
worthwhile and interesting things (even if not universally but only for one
personally) is a hopeless task and should better not be attempted. So why not
look at individual pieces of art and have that discussion?

~~~
Natsu
It's amazing to me to see the evolution of art and how so much of it has
morphed into self-mockery.

I've seen enough things both wonderful and banal that I've adopted the rule
that if something's only virtue is that it's "art," it's not worth my time.

