
Amazon announces new Fire TV with 4K and HDR - uyoakaoma
https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16375134/new-amazon-fire-tv-announced-4k-hdr-price-date-2017
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drewg123
But will it have YouTube?

Actually, that's a serious question. I'm looking for a box to recommend to a
friend who's going to cut the cord. I think the Nvidia Shield will be better
for them due to being real android tv, and because I have one and know the
Android TV ecosystem better...

It looks like FireTV still doesn't have an easy way to install Kodi from the
appstore, but requires that it be side-loaded.

And it looks like the Youtube app in the amazon app store is written by
Amazon. The icon makes it look not not legit..

~~~
ashark
Side loading Kodi only takes a few minutes. I've got it on my FireTV—it's
almost all I use it for, in fact.

~~~
drewg123
I had a fire stick, and did the same thing. But side-loading was a pain,
especially for updates. On my Shield, I get all the updates via the Play
store.

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valuearb
"But the Apple TV starts at $179, which is more than twice as expensive as
this latest generation of Amazon’s Fire TV. That makes for a rough comparison
if you’re Apple.

Amazon has chosen to support HDR10 but not Dolby Vision for HDR playback. On
the audio side, the device offers Dolby Atmos integration. That’s an odd
switch-around from Apple’s approach with the Apple TV 4K, which outputs both
Dolby Vision and HDR10 but not the Atmos audio format."

AppleTV Atmos support is coming.

And I don't think the comparison is rough. Apple is trying to make the best TV
box not the cheapest. They should never cut the price, instead they should fix
their rough edges, including the remote. I have no problem paying an extra
$100 for a TV box I'm going to use every night if it's UI is the best, and
it's content offerings are among the best.

~~~
Razengan
The Apple TV is also a surprisingly good games console.

~~~
thefalcon
I wish they sold a version with a bundled controller: not because I had any
trouble buying a MiFi controller separately, but because the fact that I had
to do that means that there are far too few games that are built expecting me
to have a controller. If there was a bundle, I imagine it would booster
developer support as well. Also I think it would help justify its comparable-
to-console pricing to many people.

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dubyah
[https://developer.amazon.com/public/solutions/devices/fire-t...](https://developer.amazon.com/public/solutions/devices/fire-
tv/docs/device-and-platform-specifications)

Amlogic S905Z

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Nexxxeh
>Amazon today introduced a new Fire TV with HDR and 4K capabilities, which
marks the first time the device has offered the higher-resolution video.

Wait, what? There's been a 4K Amazon TV for ages. If they're talking about the
new frame-rate and HDR, that's not resolution, is it?

~~~
dragonwriter
> If they're talking about the new frame-rate and HDR, that's not resolution,
> is it?

AFAIK, yes and no (respectively), strictly speaking. More fully:

Frame rate is temporal resolution.

HDR is increased range in luminosity, but does not (AFAIK) imply greater
resolution in that dimension.

~~~
blackguardx
HDR is High Dynamic Range. Dynamic range is unitless, which allows comparisons
different systems with different signal levels.

The dynamic range compares the highest signal level to the lowest level.
Higher dynamic range implies higher resolution because if you hold the maximum
output as a constant, one can resolve smaller signals with a better DR spec.

~~~
dragonwriter
I think (though I may be wrong) this misses a difference between range and
resolution. Yes, you can get lower absolute levels of the high end is
constant, but HDR doesn't imply you can represent smaller differences in
illumination level within the representable range of levels.

~~~
blackguardx
>HDR doesn't imply you can represent smaller differences in illumination level
within the representable range of levels.

It doesn't? Dynamic range and resolution are directly related. Dynamic range
isn't "range." This is why an HDR image has greater bit depth (more bits).
Greater bit depth implies more resolution.

All things being equal, a system with higher dynamic range can convey smaller
signals. More accurate information is able to be conveyed, which requires
greater bit depth. There are even formulas for calculating the theoretical
dynamic range of a digital system given its bit depth.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Dynamic range isn't "range."

In the application under discussion, it's the ratio between the highest and
lowest representable illumination level. This is, I think, very clearly
“range” in the usual sense.

> Greater bit depth implies more resolution.

But it doesn't, in the same way that frame rate (temporal resolution) differs
from run time (temporal range). Now, the difference is in the what the output
device does with the data (since data intended to support one use could be
interpreted and used for the other, with a 120fps stream played at 24fps with
5 times the runtime, or vice versa), not the representation format, but the
whole point of HDR is representing wider differences in illumination, not
resolving smaller differences between the same minimum and maximum.

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cranjice
I did a double take after seeing the device. That droopy built in cord seems
like a really poor design choice. Aside from it being ugly there's potential
for the cord to fail considering the device hangs from it and it can't be
replaced. They even seem to be hiding it behind the remote in the amazon stock
photos.

~~~
mbrookes
Ugly is kind of irrelevant when it's plugged into the back of the TV. The back
of most TVs are ugly anyway!

I don't think the device will fail from hanging, as it's static, but it will
almost certainly put strain on some varieties of HDMI connector, depending on
orientation, and may be prone to falling out. One solution might have been an
adhesive velcro pad to attach the device to the TV.

In any case, it's pretty impressive to offer 4K in a device a fraction of the
size of the new Apple TV, and powered only from the HDMI port. Now all they
need is more than a couple of dozen titles in 4K!

~~~
suninwinter
> powered only from the HDMI port

Looking at the marketing material, it’s clear Amazon is trying to make people
think this and hope they’re not disappointed when they find out that, yes,
they still have to plug it into the wall.

There’s only one tiny image on the product page [1] that shows the power cord
coming out. Every other image is very careful to show it from an angle that
makes it seem like the HDMI cable is the only cable.

There is text that mentions the power cable, but you have to scroll down
pretty far (about 60% of the way down) before you’ll see it.

[1] [https://www.amazon.com/All-New-Ultra-Remote-Streaming-
Player...](https://www.amazon.com/All-New-Ultra-Remote-Streaming-
Player/dp/B01N32NCPM)

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xref
No ethernet, no optical out, no usb, dang this really limits my options from
how I am using my gen 1 fire tv. Wifi isn't great inside my gear cabinet so
hardwired makes sure I can push 1080p reliably, and the optical out I use for
wireless headphones.

It looks like they're now selling an ethernet dongle compatible with the new
fire tv box...that has itself become a dongle. I think I may have been dongle
Incepted.

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singularity2001
"Alexa play bloodline on netflix on fire tv" instead of just "play bloodline".

UI fails are not limited to guis.

Yes it IS technicaly feasible to figure out that you are alone in your room
and that you want to play movies on your default app + device. No strong AI
needed for that yet.

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dmix
> Dolby Atmos integration

Anyone try this new Dolby tech out yet in practice? Is it a meaningful
improvement?

~~~
mastax
I'm worried that 'Dolby Atmos' is a catch-all for a bunch of unrelated audio
tech, but the positional audio in Overwatch (game) is noticeably better than
most games have.

~~~
dmix
Well, I meant the "360 sound" part, where it goes above/below(?) your head
instead of just around you.

I'm starting to see Atmos in far more products and content now where it's
going beyond early adopter territory, so I'm curious if it's a noticeable
improvement, ala 4k.

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gallerdude
Ok, so this has the potential to age _horrifically_ , but where do we go after
4K + HDR? I don't think VR is going to be _the thing_ , and 3D has similar
problems. 8K might be a thing, but even if that catches on, then I'll heavily
doubt 16K will be.

After those... RAW video?

~~~
kodt
I agree 8K will be a thing... eventually. 16k less likely.

there is already HDR10+, which is an improvement on HDR10 so I imagine better
HDR formats and displays will be coming.

35mm films can't really scan much higher than 5k/6k, so we might be reaching
the limit on new formats fairly soon. Many digital films today are shot in 2k
or 4k, or have effects mastered at 2k. I imagine that won't translate very
well to an 8k screen vs just a 4k.

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benbristow
What's the advantage of buying this over the current Amazon Box?

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jdboyd
The current amazon box is discontinued. Also, this does HDR.

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benbristow
Will it still get updates? I don't need 4K nor do I need HDR.

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thebiglebrewski
[baleted]

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blacksmith_tb
Wrong article? That typo is on their coverage of the new Echo...

