

I support Gus - stephenson
http://supportgus.dk/

======
rauljara
Whenever I read about a campaign to stop someone from being deported, I am
almost always sympathetic and supportive. But I also can't help but think
about the people who are no less deserving of support, but don't have a
community with the means/wherewithal to launch such a campaign behind them.
Yes, people should work hard to stop Gus from being deported. But if the
campaign stops once Gus' situation is resolved the campaign will be a minor
victory at best. Gus' situation is a symptom of a disease. It is the disease
itself which must be cured

~~~
Stuk
Very true, but just because you can't help everyone doesn't mean you shouldn't
help someone.

------
mixmax
I'm Danish, and unfortunately this story doesn't surprise me. My brother's
Australian girlfriend was unable to get a residence here (He's an engineer,
she's a lawyer), one of my good friends' girlfriend from Brazil couldn't get a
residence here even though they have a five year old son that's born and
raised in Denmark. All of them are hardworking people that can take care of
themselves. The list goes on.

The problem is that around ten years ago the current conservative minority
government was formed, and to gain a majority they have relied on the right-
wing Danish people party whose primary, and maybe only agenda is stopping
immigration. This has lead to a political reality where the Danish People
party has voted yes to whatever legislation from the government in return for
further restraints and barriers for immigrants. They've used their position
extremely well, and have used their platform to alienate immigrants and make
them all out as devils in the minds of the people.

Ten years of this has unfortunately marked the country. The tone in the media
is increasingly harsh towards immigrants, and other parties have started
adopting the stance of the Danish People party since it's pretty successful -
after all the Danish People party has had a decade to convince Danes that
immigrants are only here to steal our jobs and use our social services.

As a result we've become a country of people that despise immigrants.

It's a very sad state of affairs, and this website is only one of many
examples. I feel terrible about what my country has become.

~~~
Robin_Message
It feels like the same is true for the UK and the USA – perhaps the whole
western whole? That particular political situation doesn't sound ideal though.

------
mzl
I really don't understand Denmark when it comes to migration issues. They make
it so hard to move there for non-EU citizens that it is ridiculous.

As an example, I know of more than one married couple with one Dane and one
non-eu citizen that have been forced to live in Sweden instead of in Denmark
due to troubles getting residency permits. Not letting a legitimate spouse get
at least residency is just crazy.

~~~
ThomPete
As a Dane I can only say I don't understand it either. But I can give you a
couple of small hints as to why it (unfortunately) is like it is.

1\. Denmark has a very beneficial social welfare system.

If you break your leg in Denmark visiting, we will pick up the bill through
our taxes (there is talks about changing that now)

If you get approved to stay here you gain access to more or less all social
welfare.

Some people feel that this is being misused by immigrants. When they normally
talk about immigrants they talk about arabs, africans etc. And there is some
truth to that.

If you marry someone not from the EU they will gain access to all social
welfare.

Because the nineties where ruled by a government that "just took people in" it
created a backlash as problems started arising with ghettoes. This among other
things lead to a (european style conservative) government backed by Danish
Peoples Party a political party critical towards immigrants.

Since they secure the parliamentary power they have been able to get a lot of
cases through.

One of them being the 24 year rule which basically is meant to hinder forced
marriage between muslims living in Denmark and their spouses living in a
country outside of EU.

This has been criticized by both left and right side of the political spectrum
and is why some people move to sweden because they are much more lax about
these things.

Personally I am a proponent of an open borders closed boxes policy and is
voting for the only true liberal (semi american style) party that exist right
now (form an ideological point of view) and I am sad to see every time people
like Gus get's en trouble because of the splash damage that some of these laws
result in.

Good thing is that Denmark is a small country and there is an election year. I
am pretty sure that this will be taken up by the newspapers in Denmark and
hopefully make it's way into the political debates on television. It's a
perfect case for that.

I am also pretty sure Gus will be able to stay. The current government simply
don't want to run the risk of angering their political base.

~~~
danieldk
_Some people feel that this is being misused by immigrants. When they normally
talk about immigrants they talk about arabs, africans etc. And there is some
truth to that. If you marry someone not from the EU they will gain access to
all social welfare._

True. I am from another welfare state dealing with the same problems and
discussions (The Netherlands). But it needs to be said that the system was
grossly misused by native Dutch as well. Laws have been tightened since the
beginning of this century, but some groups continue to be resourceful in
exploiting the system.

Also interesting is that the anti-immigrant party is most popular in a low-
immigrant, economically weak region (Limburg). It's highly paradoxical that
people in regions that rely a lot on social welfare accuse others of
bankrupting the state (immigrants, The European Union, and state officials are
popular targets).

~~~
ThomPete
Same thing here. People in Copenhagen areas where most immigrants live are
pretty liberal when it comes to immigration. Where as Jutland and other places
are more conservative.

But then again they are the ones fighting with unemployment and declining
population so someone need to get the blame I guess.

------
nopinsight
An informative comment by a Dane in this thread suggests that the Danish
immigration system tries to prevent immigrants using/exploiting its great
social welfare benefits while contributing little to the society or causing
problems like forming ghettos.

A straightforward way to address this issue is to deploy a point system
currently used by several countries, including Canada and Singapore.

I wonder why Denmark and the US, in particular, do not use this obvious sort
of point-based system. There will likely be a massive 'brain draw' towards the
US if this is implemented and specialized Startup Visa may not even be needed
if the criteria/formulas are selected well.

In the Danish system, it looks like the criteria are not optimized towards its
real goals and use non-optimal proxy criteria like EU citizenship to make
decision on immigration. This creates many weird cases like this (it is
obvious from his resume that Gus will contribute as much or more to the Danish
society than an average Danish citizen, yet he cannot stay there) and many we
did not hear of.

Note: It is true that the politicians needs to balance the issues of cultural
assimilation with economic advantages gained from getting all these qualified
immigrants (for example, the US might not want 2 million qualified Chinese and
Indians coming in every year and form cliques within the country), but this
requirement is easily satisfied by a good quota/bucket system.

~~~
uvdiv
_A straightforward way to address this issue is to deploy a point system
currently used by several countries, including Canada and Singapore._

Plainly, to tolerate laws that explicitly discriminate against low-income and
blue collar workers.

~~~
goatforce5
The Canadian list of "skilled workers" is a list of job types where they are
current shortages. Some IT jobs were recently taken _off_ the list, and it
contains plenty of blue-collar type jobs:

[http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/apply-who-
ins...](http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/apply-who-
instructions.asp#list)

You spent 1 year in the past 10 as a fry cook or installing flooring? Great!
Canada needs your skills!

The Australian list contains plenty of blue-collar jobs too:

[http://www.workingin-australia.com/visa/skill-
shortages/skil...](http://www.workingin-australia.com/visa/skill-
shortages/skilled-occupations-list.aspx)

~~~
uvdiv
I don't claim that they _don't admit_ low-income workers, but that their laws
discriminate in preference of high-income workers (that is, highly educated
professionals). See their points system [1]. (It also discriminates on the
basis of age, which would be a Human Rights violation if it was a private
employer doing it. [2])

[1] <http://www.workpermit.com/canada/points_calculator.htm>

[2]
[http://www.hrsdc.gc.ca/eng/lp/spila/wlb/caowc/10chapter_5.sh...](http://www.hrsdc.gc.ca/eng/lp/spila/wlb/caowc/10chapter_5.shtml)

~~~
goatforce5
Some random other country doesn't owe you a thing and so they get to be
selective about who they let in. In Canada you have to show you won't place
"excessive demand" on their services, and it's defined as:

"Requirements for medical or social services of such a level as to threaten
the sustainability of Canada’s publicly funded healthcare system, or deny or
delay access to Canadians that would prevent the admission of an applicant to
Canada."

[http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/publications/dmp-
hand...](http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/publications/dmp-
handbook/section-1.asp)

Some random web link says that Excessive Demand was calculated to be $24,030
of health or social services over a five-year period. There's lots of stories
of families with a mildly autistic child being denied residence in Canada, for
example.

[http://www.canadianimmigrant.ca/health/healthinsurancecovera...](http://www.canadianimmigrant.ca/health/healthinsurancecoverage/article/2532)

It's not in the best interests of a country to let an older person in who wont
pay much tax and then try to collect social security and use health services
as they get older.

Australia, for example, has a specific visa to enable retirees to live in
Australia for a period of time. Note, however, that you need a lot of assets,
a substantial income and proof of health insurance for the duration of the
stay.

<http://www.immi.gov.au/visitors/retirement/405/>

------
teralaser
As long as Denmark has a growing "Danish People's Party" (3rd largest at
13.8%) in a government supporting role, with the one-trick pony voter's appeal
of immigration (thus they have to tighten and tighten it), I have 3 advices
for anyone contemplating Denmark: 1) Do not move to Denmark or start a company
in Denmark 2) Do not get an education in Denmark 3) Do not fall in love with a
Dane (if you are a non-EU citizen)

Danish educational institutions and companies go to a great extent to convince
their surroundings, that they are international & business oriented, but the
matter of fact is that this is not supported by the parliament. It is as
simple as that. So don't get lured by their marketing. Stay out.

------
ThomPete
As predicted it is now front page on one of the biggest danish newspapers
<http://www.b.dk/>

~~~
Steer
I guess I underestimated the Danish papers, didn't think they would pick up on
this. Good for Gus!

------
random42
It is very difficult for me to take a side without hearing views from all the
sides for a story. Google was not much help.

Any links where I can see the Denmark Government's Point of View of his
kicking (any relevant documents etc.)?

~~~
RuadhanMc
The thing you can probably research is inter-department communication in
Government agencies in Denmark. If its anything like Sweden then Government
departments behave in a mostly autonomous fashion where decisions are made
based on the departments mandate and prerogatives, irregardless of what
decisions have previously been made by other Government departments. It can
lead to some strange situations.

------
gusmurray
Thanks for all your support, so far my case has been picked up by several
media outlets but I am yet to get a response from any of the political
representatives. However, the fat lady hasn't sung so I won't be dropping the
ball just yet. My case, I believe, highlights some of the inefficiencies and
absurdities that are in place, within some governmental organizations. I fully
recognize that because of my involvement with entrepreneurship and my network
I have managed to gain a great amount of support to my case. Saying that,
there are many smarter and more brilliant people out there who's case will
remain silent and they'll just disappear into the night. I hope, if one thing,
my case can be an example of what others can do to show that a country
shouldn't be known by it's policies and procedures but by the amazing people
within it that won't lay down but are willing to voice their disapproval to
cases like mine. Thanks again for your support!

------
Steer
Agree with all the points about Denmark; as a Swede I'm happy that we at least
are somewhat better at making it possible to immigrate.

I'm very curious as to what impact this campaign can have on the Danish
authorities. I would guess none if it doesn't get picked up by the Danish
(print) media and since Gus isn't a classical victim (meaning poor,
uneducated, a child and so on) I don't see that happening. Unfortunately.

That said, it's nice to see someone putting down actual work in creating a web
site for a friend instead of the usual "create a facebook group" or "retweet
to show support" which to me feels like the most lazy way to show that you
care.

