
Ask HN: What are you doing to look after your posture? - J-dawg
I guess we all know what sitting in a chair looking at a screen all day can do to you. Forward head posture, rounded shoulders, tight chest muscles, back and neck pain.<p>What do you do to look after your back and neck?<p>EDIT: As an aside to this, does your employer offer any help in optimising your work setup for posture? Is it reasonable to expect this?
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wyck
Some tips because I have a herniated disk and severe back issues at the
moment:

* Be careful of opinions and chiropractors, if you are in actual pain get a CT Scan or MRI.

* I stand all day at work, maybe I sit for 30 minutes here and there.

* One of the best things you can do for your back is walk. Walking helps align your posture.

* Get a good chair, not necessary an expensive one, you want a chair which supports your back and has your legs supporting some of your weight.

* Doing minimal yoga or stretching is key even if it's for 5 minutes, do not do yoga that stresses your back or twists anything! I do 5 minuets of exercise 3 times a day.

* Strengthen your core muscles and your glutes. You don't need a 6 pack but it certainly helps.

* Engage your abductors often, you can engage some of them any-time you think about them (sort of like holding back when you have to urinate).

* Try to feel your muscles (meditation can help here), you will often notice they are tense or perhaps you are just tense in general. Try and relax, breath and generally loosen up. Getting a massage can also help and thermotherapy is a godsend.

~~~
bmj
_Strengthen your core muscles, engage your abductors often._

This is really good advice. I regularly see an active release therapist (I'm
an avid climber, and no longer a spring chicken, so I get some aches and
pains), and he has given me a small selection of exercises to do during the
day at work to keep my abductors engaged. It's made a huge difference.

~~~
Wolniewicz
Could you share those exercises? Are they something one could do at an office
without doing full on planks?

~~~
bmj
Sorry, totally didn't see this....

My "office" exercises are pretty simple. First, I stand up, reach down and
touch my toes (or, as far down as you can reach), then straighten up slowly,
focusing on really using my hamstrings and glutes. Second, I cross my legs
while sitting on a chair, then pull my knee into my chest for a few seconds.
Repeat on the other side.

I do agree with the child's response, though--if you can find a good
therapist, they can point you in the proper direction and spot muscle
imbalances. Years of focusing on just my upper body (for rock climbing) left
my legs pretty unbalanced. I've been working hard to fix that.

------
Thriptic
Kelly Starrett, an expert on mobility, has great short pieces on how to
optimally sit and walk to improve posture:

[http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/sit-better-live-better-
excer...](http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/sit-better-live-better-excerpt-from-
becoming-a-supple-leopard.html)

[http://www.allthingsgym.com/kelly-starrett-on-
posture/](http://www.allthingsgym.com/kelly-starrett-on-posture/)

I would highly recommend his book "Becoming a Supple Leopard" to all lifters
and anyone generally interested in improving their posture.

~~~
ithayer
this is really great advice. did crossfit for a bit and stopped, but some of
the mobility stretches using a lacrosse ball and band have changed my life.
(warm up first)

------
madaxe_again
I have an ingenious strategy.

I sit like a sack of potatoes with depression at my desk, skewed at an angle
wedged into a corner, so I'm always at a ~30 degree angle to my keyboard and
monitor. Oh, and I should be wearing glasses but I don't, so I hunch over my
laptop like a jealous gorilla with a mean squint. I make sure that my battered
old cheap piece of shit desk chair is at all times wobbling, and regularly
pick at the padding for that authentic bolty "I'm sitting on a goddamned
plank" feel.

This genius move has left me with a twisted spine and a neck that likes to
seize up in spectacular fashion from time to time.

So, basically, do the exact opposite to what I do. It's pretty amazing how
quickly "temporary" "discomfort" turns into long-term physical distress.

------
dmansen
I'm trying to get my posture back into alignment after many years of stress.
This book helped me: [http://www.amazon.com/Pain-Free-Revolutionary-Stopping-
Chron...](http://www.amazon.com/Pain-Free-Revolutionary-Stopping-
Chronic/dp/0553379887/)

It gives you a set of targeted exercises depending on your self-diagnosis. His
secret weapon is the 'Supine Groin Stretch', shown here:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXYQWFkVTDI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXYQWFkVTDI).
I recommend trying it at least once. The stretch opened my eyes to how my body
_should_ and _could_ feel.

~~~
makmanalp
This is interesting - could you elaborate? The video doesn't make it seem like
there's much stretching going on, but I'm guessing the idea is you stay in
that position for a long time and it happens gradually. What stretches? What
changes? How does it feel better? etc.

~~~
dmansen
You're correct. Calling it a 'stretch' is misleading. It's more of a
'release'.

After many years of sitting, the hip muscles tighten, atrophy, and lose their
ability to rotate the hip. The hip stays tight (flexed) and the thigh muscles
(and others) end up taking over the role of keeping your body upright.

This works, but stresses these muscles, since they weren't designed for it.
This stretch (or release) convinces the thigh to 'let go' of your hip,
allowing it to rotate. This has positive effects all the way up your body,
especially in the load-bearing joints: ankles, knees, hips, shoulders.

In severe cases, you might need to wait a very long time for this release. My
right thigh takes about 40 minutes to release completely. I use the flexing
thigh test he describes in the video to know when it's done.

I've been doing it every morning for a week now and can sit upright without
pain for the whole day, something I've never been able to do before. I'm
looking forward to continued progress!

Edit: More info here: [http://www.oregonexercisetherapy.com/blog/egoscue-
supine-gro...](http://www.oregonexercisetherapy.com/blog/egoscue-supine-groin-
stretch)

~~~
makmanalp
Cool!

I'm always skeptical about stuff like this, when it's a person's self-
developed method, and you can "Buy The Book!" and there's strategically placed
testimonials, and it has it's own useless terminology like "e-cise" and you
can get lessons from a certified center. It all just seem too sales-y to me.

But you seem to be a real person, and it worked for you :) I guess I'll have
to try for myself.

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gadders
Deadlifts.

And as for your edit: In the UK I believe there is a duty on employers to
"survey" your desk and workstation setup to ensure it is configured properly.
This normally consists of a 10 minute online course telling you what height to
have your monitors etc.

~~~
J-dawg
I've also heard this (I'm also in the UK), but pretty much never seen a
"survey" done in practice. As you said it's usually just a video or some page
buried deep in the corporate intranet. I wonder if it's reasonable to expect
more (standing desks etc), given the damage that can be done even sitting at a
"correctly positioned" workstation. My own employer will buy cheap items (e.g.
a laptop stand, trackball instead of mouse if you have wrist problems, etc)
but I think I'd be told where to go if I asked for a new desk or chair

~~~
gadders
I mostly work for large banks. Not sure if you could get a standing desk, but
I've definitely seen people with scoliosis or an otherwise bad back get an
upgraded chair.

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pa5tabear
I'm in my early 20s but I had major back pain for about 6 months. I thought it
was caused by my limited flexibility and trying to lift too much weight at the
gym without maintaining proper form. My lazy posture didn't help the healing
process, of course.

These are easy actions that I think helped me:

-Using a standing desk is probably ideal, but sitting with good alignment is better than bad. I put reams of paper under my monitor to raise it up and I really like this chair (often on sale for under $100): [http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/604924/WorkPro-1000-Se...](http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/604924/WorkPro-1000-Series-Mid-Back-Mesh/) This chair is rated at 8+ hrs/day, and locks to support a range of spinal angles such as this "optimal slouch": [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6187080.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6187080.stm)

-Be careful with compound weightlifting like squats, kettlebells, deadlifts etc. Using bad form (curved back) will increase the force on the edges of your spinal disks by a factor of 2-3. Trying to lift too much weight compounds this. Both lead to injury.

-Make flexibility a priority over cardio or strength. Do back/hamstring stretches a few times a day until you reach a good level of mobility. I've had the "upward facing dog" yoga pose recommended among others. The therapist I saw also recommended doing "neural glide stretching" where you push for a few seconds, release slightly, then repeat.

------
afiedler
Two things I've done:

1\. Try your best to move more during the day. Standing desks can help, but
standing for 6-8 hours is probably just as bad as sitting. Do walking meetings
if possible, and take frequent breaks. sSometimes I'll take conference calls
with a headset and stretch in my office. Use a Pomodoro app to remind yourself
to stretch or change position every 25 minutes or so.

2\. Lots of people who sit for most of the day have lumbar lordosis or weak
hip flexors (I did). To check if you have this problem, stand to the side in
front of a mirror. Does it look like your butt sticks out and your lower spine
curves in? (See here: [http://stronglifts.com/lordosis-why-it-causes-lower-
back-pai...](http://stronglifts.com/lordosis-why-it-causes-lower-back-pain-
how-to-fix-it/)). The other way you can test this is attempt to do a "hollow
rock"
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh4-uLTL4v4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh4-uLTL4v4)).
Is that hard/impossible? You probably have lumbar lordosis, weak hip flexors,
weak abs or all of the above.

This can be hard to fix, but not impossible. It's doing to take a few months,
but it's totally worth it. The way I did it was to just do Crossfit. It's
really hard to do this on your own and keep your motivation up and Crossfit
solves that problem. Most Crossfit exercises require you to have an
"explosive" hip thrust which will strengthen and stretch your core.

If you don't want to do Crossfit, kettle bells seem to be the exercises in
Crossfit that stretch and strengthen the hip flexors most for me. Try kettle
bell swings, kettle bell sumo deadlifts, and kettle bell cleans.

------
acdha
I'll second what everyone's saying about yoga, standing desks, etc. but the
thing you can change right now without any cost or change in your office is
simply not staying in one position as long, particularly if you make a point
to get a little more range of motion in your life.

Actually get up to use a whiteboard rather than staying at your desk, drink
smaller freshly-made cups of tea/coffee, get up and talk with coworkers in
person rather than having a team meeting over IM, etc. – none of that's a
replacement for the more serious measures but it's surprisingly better than
doing nothing and you can roll it into your life now.

Your employer absolutely should support this. Depending on where you live
there are various levels of legal requirement but even without that many
places will provide surprising amounts of support. It's a cheap investment for
them – even a top-of-the-line chair, standing desk, etc. will cost far less
than lost work, medical care, or just the cost of hiring a recruiter if you
jump ship for a place which takes better care of staff.

------
neltnerb
I got a book with lots of helpful diagrams.

[http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0979303605/](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0979303605/)

I found it to be immensely helpful, and my posture is now dramatically
improved. The suggestions are clear and actionable. I'd try to explain them
here, but honestly the book will do it way better.

I think that the key for me is to check in with my muscles. When my posture
isn't right, I can feel it because the muscles on one side or another (or
forward and backwards) of my spine or neck are slightly tense.

I've found that not everyone seems to be able to monitor whether a muscle is
engaged or not, but if you can, that's a tell-tale sign that your posture
isn't neutral. I learned this technique from many years of karate, honestly no
idea if it's transferrable if you don't do any physical activity. I feel like
it should be possible, but maybe 10% of people I've described it to can feel
it.

Other thing that I know for sure is that physical activity will repair a lot
of the damage you can do to your body. When I _don 't_ do karate for more than
about three weeks, my lower back starts hurting (old injury). Regularly not
just stretching it out, but working the muscles in those areas by rotating at
the hips (in my case with karate punches) smoothly and repeatedly seems to get
a lot of blood flow to the affected area, work out deep muscle spasms that are
pulling my spine out of alignment, and basically smooths out the action of the
joints in the spine. I'm not sure biking or running would help, but I bet
swimming would. Needs to be a fairly full body exercise with rotation action
around the axis of your spine I think... at least for lower back.

------
hyperpape
Not nearly enough.

One thing I have found is that wall angels are surprisingly useful, even
though they seem like a trivial exercise. When I first started paying
attention to my posture, they were borderline painful, and I can still tell if
I've been doing well or not based on how stiff I feel while doing them.

~~~
J-dawg
Oh yeah, I discovered those too! A few wall angels seem to loosen up my neck
and shoulders almost instantly. I just wish I could get away with doing them
at work, I think I'd get a lot of strange looks..

------
crazygringo
There's a lot of misinformation out there on posture, with advice like "sit up
straight" often doing more harm than good.

The best advice I've ever gotten was the Alexander Technique, which is used
mainly by actors and singers. It's generally taught through 1-1 lessons, but
there are many books on it.

A good starter is this book that actually teaches the basics of it, rather
than just talking about it:

[http://www.amazon.com/Guided-Lessons-Students-Alexander-
Tech...](http://www.amazon.com/Guided-Lessons-Students-Alexander-Technique-
ebook/dp/B0063LJEUC/ref=sr_1_2)

Practicing the "semi-supine position" has basically saved my lower back.

------
Spearchucker
Weirdly I fixed my posture when I improved my voice, because The Voice Book
([http://www.amazon.com/dp/0571195253](http://www.amazon.com/dp/0571195253)).
I think he covers posture in the first or second chapter (posture hugely
affects your voice). It's been a few years since I read it so don't remember
the exact guidance - it involves lying on the floor, getting your head aligned
with your body, and ensuring the small of your back is the right distance from
the floor. That improves breathing and airflow and then voice. I significantly
(noticeably) improved both my voice and my posture.

~~~
anatoly
That looks like a very interesting book, thanks. The link you give doesn't
list a Kindle edition, but it's actually there if you look hard enough:
[http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FDR4ER0](http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FDR4ER0)

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jtedward
I have very bad posture since I was a child. I have tried many, many different
stretches and even physically therapy, but nothing has been as effective as
simple jogging. Recently I've decided to solely focus on jogging (40 min)
after a cup of coffee and the decrease in back and neck pain has terrific, as
well as showing more strength in my core muscles. I think caffeine is very
important component in my exercise because if I don't take it I find myself
falling back into bad posture habits even while jogging which subtly
constricts my breathing.

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whitewhim
I don't specifically target my posture, but I do take a holistic view to
health and fitness. I realize that I've taken a career path that will have me
sitting 6-8 hours a day for the rest of my life. Therefore I focus on getting
at least an hour of fitness everyday. The gym fulfills a lot of my
requirements and I go maybe 4-5 days a week. This allows me to build a strong
body. I also play organized sports, and run on my off days. I have a bad back,
with mild scoliosis and a rib that easily dislocates and staying fit allows me
to reduce the pain.

------
jdrols
Squats and deadlifts.

You are forced to adopt good posture if you want to do them properly and with
any heavy weight. You'll carry that posture with you into your daily
activities.

~~~
mod
I can second this. Was doing 5x5 about a year ago, posture was drastically
improved. People noticed.

Have since quit, posture has regressed.

Time to get back in there!

------
paulrpotts
I was getting a long-ish walk in, of 45 minutes to an hour and a half
duration. That did great things for my spine and my mood. I know it's not easy
for everyone to find an hour and a safe and pleasant place to walk but if you
can, I recommend it. I think the human body basically evolved for walking and
if we don't do it while we can, we're not maintaining it correctly.

------
lazyjones
I try to watch TV almost exclusively while walking or running on a treadmill.
I tried various ergonomic chairs for PC work, but all of them felt lackluster.
I tried a standing desk too and it gave me severe back pains because I found
myself switching to more relaxing and less ergonomic postures after a few
hours (like putting an elbow down for support and bending the back).

~~~
kps
I have a standing desk over a treadmill at home, and find that walking very
slowly (~1mph) is more comfortable than standing still and generally does not
interfere with thinking or typing.

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jseliger
I use a Geekdesk Max: [http://jakeseliger.com/2015/01/24/geekdesk-max-sit-
stand-des...](http://jakeseliger.com/2015/01/24/geekdesk-max-sit-stand-desk-
review-two-years-with-a-motorized-desk/) and vary sitting / standing.

Working out most days helps too.

Mild, non-intrusive consciousness of posture is important.

------
andersthue
I practice Taois Tai Chi for at least 2 hours every week. I get a two hour
deep tissue massage every 3-4 weeks I stand at my table from time to time.

As an employer I try to get my employees to try Taoist Tai Chi ;), offer them
access to massage and whatever chair they want (trying a kneeling chair atm)
and whatever can help their back/general health issues.

------
gdubs
Zen meditation focuses on posture and breathing, which carries over into
awareness of posture throughout the day. I use a convertible desk and raise it
to a standing position once an hour for ten minutes or so. Keeping my arms at
ninety degree angles relative to the keyboard is important for reducing
shoulder tension.

------
calinet6
I was JUST thinking about this this week!

I have a simple apple reminder set twice daily to 'check your posture' \-- it
pops up on me at 11am and 3pm (times I'm most likely to have been sitting for
a while) and reminds me to get up and walk around, adjust my sitting position,
or switch to standing.

So far so good!

------
binarymax
Standing desk and yoga every am for 15 to 30 mins. My posture is great and
back pain all gone!

~~~
richerlariviere
I agree with you. Yoga helped me a lot! #zenprogrammer

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vollmond
Not a whole lot. When walking around the office, I try to avoid staring at my
phone or the floor; I look around or up. I've tried to set up my desk
ergonomically (right angle knees/elbos, eye-level at the top third of the
monitor, etc).

I should probably do more.

------
andrewtbham
Look into the Alexander Technique.

~~~
gkop
I took an Alexander class in college 7 years ago. The best thing I got out of
it was the ability to sense when my head-neck-spine are happily aligned.
Indeed this alignment does seem to affect everything else.

------
marvel_boy
Just buy an amazing Ikea standing desk[1]

[1][http://gizmodo.com/ikea-sit-stand-desk-review-i-cant-
believe...](http://gizmodo.com/ikea-sit-stand-desk-review-i-cant-believe-how-
much-i-l-1652445999)

~~~
calinet6
Standing desks aren't the end-all be-all solution!

~~~
gkop
Yup. I'd go so far as to say _be careful_ not to stand too much at your new
standing desk at first, and in fact pay _extra special_ attention to keyboard
and monitor height - their relative positions may be different when standing
vs. sitting. (Anecdote: I screwed up my legs pretty bad when a client gave me
a standing desk last year and I attempted to maximize my time spent in the
standing position. Took about 6 months to recover)

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dorfsmay
Pullups as my compulsory exercise, if I do one exercise only, this is it.

The yoga mountain pose any time I am standing and remember about it. I'm not
into yoga, but this one "pose" is worth learning/practicing.

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adamb_
This video[1] shows some simple exercises that target posture. YMMV but it
seemed to help me.

[1] [https://youtu.be/LT_dFRnmdGs](https://youtu.be/LT_dFRnmdGs)

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1337biz
I am using almost every day Lumo Lift, a wearable to correct posture:
[http://www.lumobodytech.com/](http://www.lumobodytech.com/)

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goodJobWalrus
I do yoga, pilates, barre and general strength training, but most importantly
those 3 I mentioned increase your postural awareness in addition to increasing
flexibility and strength.

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jboggan
Standing desk and a good standing mat help. Slacklining and weightlifting
(squats, deadlifts, "closed-chain exercises", etc.) really help.

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snarfy
Yoga is pretty amazing for this.

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hxmc
Lift bro.

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jjuhl
Q: What are you doing to look after your posture?

A: Absolutely nothing.

