
Ask HN: Help. Covid case at work; remote work is being denied. EU region. - TYPE-ERROR
Hello HN.<p>I&#x27;m working at a place where, according to a very credible and personally-detailed report, has had a known positive Covid-19 case. It was later denied. It seems pretty clear what&#x27;s going on.<p>I&#x27;m now seeing my teammates become sick, and still it has been decided that we must not work from home, despite that being possible.<p>It&#x27;s hard to understand why critical human resources are being put at risk.<p>It&#x27;s hard  to understand why I&#x27;m putting up with this.<p>It&#x27;s hard to understand why I feel like I&#x27;m cannot share more details about the situation.<p>I really feel like I need to talk with someone about it.<p>Anyone else?<p>Thank you.
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gorbachev
Start coughing up the hierarchy. Once you cough on someone high enough I
suspect the situation will solve itself.

edit: Turning this approach 180 degrees, have the employees ask the people
with power to change the policy what do they think the legal liability is in
the case any of the employees or any of their family members dies?

~~~
cafxx
(While I think this is hilarious) I would advise against this as, by doing it
intentionally, you may be breaking the law (hard to know for sure as laws
differ between EU countries).

~~~
mandelbrotwurst
A law against spreading illness if you're actually sick seems reasonable, but
against coughing to feign illness?

~~~
odshoifsdhfs
Problem is, if he is asymptomatic, he may be spreading it anyways, and may
have criminal charges thrown at him (happened already in many places)

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TYPE-ERROR
I finally got my user off the shadow ban. It is a throw-away account. Thank
you Daniel!

I realize this is a low-signal post, but I'm still here, unable to sleep,
feeling utterly disrespected as a cysec professional.

A few days ago I was a valued member of the team, now upper management is
using fear and intimidation to keep a semblance of normality for as long as
possible: You want to go home? We won't have you back. I would walk away
gladly if I could do it without affecting my team and my employer.

We have all the conditions required for secure remote work, in fact it would
be a tighter environment in many ways. Apparently it's too difficult to manage
the outsourced resources.

This is why we need the state of emergency declared. To keep people like those
from putting more people are risk.

Is there anyone else going through something like this?

~~~
pnw_hazor
You are learning an important lesson the hard way.

Never be loyal to a corporation. Corporations are not loyal to you (or other
employees) in spite of how it may seem sometimes. How could they be loyal?
They are not human.

I first heard this from a CTO at my first dev job when he was encouraging me
to come along with an upcoming merger. I said something like "well I want to
be loyal to company..." he immediately cut me off and said "never be loyal to
a company -- a company will not be loyal to you." (paraphrasing)

Since then, I have witnessed his assertion come true many times.

Save your loyalty for people. We would like to think that the bonds made with
teammates will be shared by the company, they won't.

------
7177Y
Contact your local authorities non-emergency number. This is an emergency, but
not immediately actionable (you don't need a firetruck right at this moment).
Discuss the situation with them and they will hopefully act accordingly.

Your workplace should be quarantined and sanitized, this is a major risk to
public health. Best of luck.

~~~
UncleEntity
> Your workplace should be quarantined and sanitized, this is a major risk to
> public health.

Was down at "the yard" yesterday and all the supervisors were locked in their
areas since some driver with a high fever wandered in and scared the hell out
of them.

Went in today and they were working on sanitizing _everything_ with bleach
while all the supervisors are still locked down.

Tomorrow should be interesting...

------
viraptor
If you're not allowed to work from home, stop working. Contact your doctor and
request relevant paperwork to stop work and go into isolation. (if this is
possible in your country - depending on the country, "I've been in contact
with a case" may be enough)

But also keep in mind that unless you hear a real confirmation, the case you
know may actually be a third-party rumor, so... don't panic yet.

~~~
iandanforth
Don't panic, but yeah, you've been exposed if you're still in an office at
this point.

~~~
TYPE-ERROR
It was not a rumor, it was a very specific and detailed account that resulted
in employee quarantines.

The chain of influences is big enough and reaches into national government,
with a confluence of interests. I'm afraid a leak to the press could be more
effective than a report to the government.

I believe t will eventually come up because these things are difficult to hide
as time goes by.

~~~
anigbrowl
Careers can be remade. You could go public and then run for political office.
Don't be a slave to your employer's selfishness.

~~~
TYPE-ERROR
> run for political office

I'm a serious and honest simple man. :)

------
peterburkimsher
"a very credible and personally-detailed report" isn't a medical test. Don't
panic, but that doesn't make you safe.

Anecdotally, a lot of people have started coughing around me (in Auckland)
since Friday. At work, with the homestay family, at church, on the bus - every
group had at least one person with a dry cough. "No fever, so the doctors said
it's OK."

Unfortunately, tests here in New Zealand cost 3000 NZD, and only people who
have travelled recently AND show symptoms are allowed to be tested. Even then
it takes hours on the phone to a helpline to join the queue. So far only about
500 people have been tested.

I found an old N95 mask in the bottom of my bag that I used for air pollution
in Taiwan. I've been wearing it in public since yesterday, and in the office
today. I've been going for walks down by the river to get lots of fresh air,
and sunbathing to get more UV. I bought 4 bottles of tonic water today, to
share with all these people around. (Yes, I know the quinine concentration is
too low to matter, but things like masks are sold out and the US/Europe need
them more... I feel like I have to try something).

My symptoms are barely noticeable (is that joint pain or RSI? shortness of
breath or am I panicking?), but only when I started wearing a mask did other
people take it seriously. The recorded cases in the country just jumped from 6
to 12 to 20 in the last few days. Exaggerate your own symptoms if you have to,
instead of blaming someone else, and ask for personal permission to take sick
leave. Take a week off for your wee cough.

We've just been granted permission to work from home until the end of the
week. Perhaps it'll be longer.

Wash your hands, get a mask and wear it, drink tonic water and share it with
everyone, try to take sick leave.

I would love to see a web app where anecdata like this could be shared on a
map (checkboxes of symptoms, severity, locations, number of people in groups).

~~~
bArray
Hi there, I'm in NZ too.

> Unfortunately, tests here in New Zealand cost 3000 NZD,

> and only people who have travelled recently AND show

> symptoms are allowed to be tested.

So they are assuming that they don't infect people either on the plane or when
they land? This seems like dangerous thinking considering that the world is
currently very aware of how contagious this is.

Also are you saying that it's $3000 out of pocket for the person infected? Or
is that costed to the government? I think the US could be very heavily
affected as people are not wanting to get tested in fear of associated health
costs.

> I would love to see a web app where anecdata like this

> could be shared on a map (checkboxes of symptoms,

> severity, locations, number of people in groups).

100% this. Like the earthquake data that is collected from reports. Could also
be a good opportunity to share good and up-to-date advice about the latest
best practices.

I've not got a background in web-apps of any kind, but if you want some help
to throw something together let me know.

~~~
peterburkimsher
Yes, please email me if you can provide a server, or help with design
decisions for the UI.

~~~
bArray
Mail sent :)

------
Cass
Can't you get your doctor to give you a note that you have to work from home
for now for medical reasons? It seems that in most EU countries, your employer
would be forced to respect that. If they refuse, get a sick note and stay
home, there's no reason to put everyone's lives at risk by getting infected at
work and spreading it through your commute.

------
pezo1919
If you think they lie or they're just not trustworthy you must play the game
they started to play and lie too. Don't be a fool.

Start looking for a job asap, don't go in, play out your cards. You can say
the things you want. You can say you are sick, you can say you are horrified,
but you must start playing the game.

For naive people with good moral in general it's hard. You are not your
environment. If you feel they are not doing the right thing accept for
yourself that you can't too. If a persen attacks you on street and threatens
your life and you can't escape, sometimes you must fight back. That's really
sad, but true.

Be smart. Do your best. Don't be a fool.

Many similar posts/problems will come in next weeks/months.

~~~
brandmeyer
> Start looking for a job asap

Sorry, but with the world economy literally crashing around you, this isn't
practical advice. Everyone who was hiring is going to be delaying those
decisions right now.

~~~
TYPE-ERROR
It seems to me that this is a pretty good opportunity for remote companies to
have a competitive advantage in the job market. The question is, how many
remote jobs exist and how many can be created in a recession?

------
pjdkoch
Lose your love for 50 euros and call a lawyer. Alternatively, contact your
work or health regulator, and document the case to them the best you can.

Documentation and evidence is now power for you.

~~~
TYPE-ERROR
Are lawyers in Porto really that affordable? That is enticing. I'd love to
talk this through just to have a non-actionable idea about the legality of
this situation.

~~~
odshoifsdhfs
FFS you are in Porto Portugal? Are you watching the news? You can decide to
work from home. First google result:

[https://www.jornaldenegocios.pt/economia/emprego/detalhe/tra...](https://www.jornaldenegocios.pt/economia/emprego/detalhe/trabalhadores-
podem-trabalhar-a-partir-de-casa-contra-a-vontade-da-empresa)

And second, please name the fucking company as for people to do the same and
avoid it as much as possible.

~~~
TYPE-ERROR
It's not the legality or the right to work from home that is in question. You
too live in a small country with too much corrupt politicians and networks of
influence.

If I named the company I would be uniquely identified by my immediate
superiors as soon as they read this. I might as well ask you if you have any
job for me in a couple of months. I really like Porto.

~~~
odshoifsdhfs
I wouldn't worry too much. For all the bad things our country has, labour
court isn't one of them (well it can be) as it almost sides with workers all
the time. If they try to fire you, they will end up paying you a lot and give
you your contract back.

------
cl42
Your country/state/province likely has a labour board you can contact to have
them get involved. Alternatively, contact an employment lawyer. There’s a good
chance a labour policy or law is being broken, especially if your region is
under quarantine or self-isolation guidelines.

------
sanguy
Very common in EU unfortunately. Are you in the DACH region as it seems
particularly neurotic over employees in general.

Going through the same thing and the excuses to block work from home are
comical.

1) It goes against GPDR policy to allow employees to have access to such data
at home.

2) How do we ensure the employees are actually working on what we need them to
do?

3) How do we ensure they are putting in a full work day?

4) Why should we allow working from home to social distance without knowing if
they do the same in their personal time?

Several of these are actually issues they suffer with physical workers because
they micro manage and are paranoid that all employees are against management.

If they would realize that if you let good people do what you hire them for
you will realize most are very loyal and focused on doing the best for the
company.

------
sk0g
What the hell are they thinking? I had flu symptoms a few weeks ago, and our
office has transitioned to full remote till the situation calms down a bit,
and we're not even in a particularly affected country!

------
vinhnglx
You need to left the company immediately, report the situation to the police
and self-isolate yourself when waiting for the next step from the police. Job
is not important anymore at this time.

This is not a video-game where you can restart everything when you died, this
is real. You, all of us, only have one life to live.

------
djtriptych
Contact local authorities, and contact local journalists. Or even
international.

------
StopOFlop
Don't know where you are in the eu but in some countries you have the right to
leave work if there is imminent danger for your health which is the case here.

------
odshoifsdhfs
a) please confirm itself with the health authorities. I have heard very
credible reports as well all these last weeks

b) country is more important than EU region. Each country enacted their own
rules wether you can decide for yourself to work from home is there is a
possibility (Portugal for example both employee and employer can do it
unilaterally)

~~~
TYPE-ERROR
Do you have a PGP public key?

~~~
odshoifsdhfs
I don't. If you need/want to talk, we can use email/whatsapp.

While tomorrow you probably won't have to go to work, you can always call CMTV
and they will rush there I am sure

------
realusername
Where in the EU exactly? You can just stay home for medical reasons.

------
anigbrowl
Quit and name the company. Why not?

~~~
TYPE-ERROR
Fear of consequences and not having f-you pocket change. Isn't it enough?

~~~
anigbrowl
I can't direct your life but you can navigate such temporary setbacks. Many,
if not most, people will understand your situation, and in life it's more
valuable to work with people who understand you than with people who have lots
of money but don't care.

~~~
TYPE-ERROR
[This comment was useful. It's now self-censured.]

Thank you.

------
bigdict
Police?

