
Show HN: Javelin Browser - nubela
http://javelinbrowser.com?material-design
======
TheCraiggers
I've been using your browser for a couple months now (I think I saw it
mentioned on Android Police if you're curious) and I've been liking it. It
looks slick, and works exactly how I think it should. The one problem I have
with it is one I'd like other opinions on, both for my curiosity and your
benefit.

Frankly, it's not my daily driver because I don't know who you are and don't
trust you. Using a (no offense) no-name browser is somewhat of a risk as the
developer could potentially be recording personal info. Of course, I have no
guarantee that Mozilla isn't either. However, and yes I'm fully aware of how
silly this sounds, I trust Mozilla despite never looking at their code or
knowing any of the developers.

I'm guessing privacy is important to you (since you have the option of using a
VPN service as IAP) so I'm curious how you would allay my fears of using a
random browser from someone other than the big three.

Either way, I wish you luck.

~~~
nubela
I'm also the developer of [http://getgom.com](http://getgom.com) (VPN as a
Chrome extension using SPDY SSL proxies), and as a fellow Singaporean when our
government openly does surveilance, I __completely__ understand where you are
coming from. To be fair, I'm not sure how I can solve his problem though.

Open sourcing could be a plausible answer. But fighting Google Play clones and
what-not is really time-consuming and as an indie dev, my time can be better
spent.

What do you suggest?

~~~
hackoder
What's stopping clones from replicating your UI right now? Are you concerned
with loss of IAP revenue to clones?

I would suggest you open source it under a non-commercial license. Also, take
a look at how some successful android open source projects are run. In
particular, I like XPrivacy
([https://github.com/M66B/XPrivacy](https://github.com/M66B/XPrivacy)). This
is an excellent app. Open source with optional purchase, similar to yours.
Personally, I paid the $6 they charge because I'd rather not compile the src
myself.

You've already had a lot of downloads and are an established app. Clones can't
replicate that.. If you are a recognized dev on xda, with your own thread for
discussion, feature requests, bug reports etc, no clones will be able to
replace that aspect even if they can clone your app.

You should be able to get more downloads/purchases from privacy-aware users.
And you can have donations for feature requests if you want.

Just some thoughts.. best of luck with the app!

~~~
teddyh
> […] _open source it under a non-commercial license_ […]

A non-commercial license is _not_ , in any sane definition of the term, an
“open source” license¹.

① [http://opensource.org/osd#fields-of-
endeavor](http://opensource.org/osd#fields-of-endeavor)

------
nubela
Developer here!

I've been working on Javelin since Feb this year and this is the 4th
iteration, and on Reddit (r/android), and just a quick interesting byte.
Javelin actually started as a "porn" browser! See:
[http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1xblv9/hey_reddit_s...](http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1xblv9/hey_reddit_so_i_created_an_android_browser_for/)

PS: I'm headed to SF in October, anyone wanna grab a beer/coffee? I'm
contactable at hello@javelinbrowser.com

~~~
higherpurpose
I remember that one, and I remember thinking that it looked pretty good, but
will fail because of the name. Good to see you changed it.

~~~
bfung
Javelin still has a simple innuendo back into it's roots ;)

------
ClifReeder
I notice that you use www.theverge.com in a number of the screenshots for
Javelin. The writers at The Verge, the developers that build the site, the
designers that make it beautiful - are all paid through ad revenue. Please
consider at least adding the ability to whitelist sites if you are going to
bundle ad block.

*Full disclosure - I am a developer at Vox Media, the publisher of The Verge.

~~~
korzun
I don't think this mobile browser is going to make a dent in The Verge's ad
revenue.

~~~
Tossrock
The Verge has about 45% mobile traffic:
[https://www.quantcast.com/theverge.com](https://www.quantcast.com/theverge.com)

If large numbers of people were to start using Javelin, it could certainly
affect revenue.

~~~
korzun
> If large numbers of people were to start using Javelin

If.

~~~
V-2
This is why I am against including ad-block as a default. People who don't
install AdBlock (mostly don't know how, or can't be bothered) play an
important role. Adblocking should be an opt-in.

------
this_user
Why would I want to use a browser made by a group that is seemingly mostly
preoccupied with design judging from your website? You don't even disclose who
is really behind this project. Especially browser security is more important
than ever. When using one made by Google or Mozilla I can be sure that they do
take security seriously, have the necessary experience, technical know-how and
manpower to deal with vulnerabilities in a timely manner.

------
robotfelix
To me, including "mobile-first" as one of your key value proposition seems a
little odd.

My immediate reaction was to wonder whether any mobile browsers _aren 't_
mobile-first? From my (incomplete) knowledge of smartphone browsers they all
feature interfaces designed for smartphones and smartphones alone.

There must be a better word to use in your tagline - I notice you decided on
using "Truly Mobile" further down ;)

~~~
zevyoura
I think the implication is that Chrome & Safari are both mobile editions of
desktop apps, which is true to some extent.

------
phpnode
I think you're making a mistake by offering this for free.

The kind of people who care enough about their web experience to install a new
browser are the kind of people who won't mind parting with a few £$€ to do so.

To be profitable, free apps must target the broader market, but this is a
relatively niche product. I don't think you'll get enough IAP fast enough to
be sustainable.

~~~
nubela
Why do you think Javelin is not suited for the broad market?

~~~
phpnode
Because the average user doesn't even know what a web browser is, they just
open up "the internet" on their phone. They are not going to _change_
something that they're not even aware of. It's also demonstrably true that the
average user doesn't know or care about privacy enough to make this choice
anyway. You don't have the resources to change either of these things.

So, disregard the average user. Market this as a paid product which offers a
superior web browsing experience for the technology connoisseur and the
privacy concious. These people, on average, have a lot more money, are easier
to sell this product to, and don't mind paying.

Another reason to just charge money for this is that this provides assurances
about your income stream which should mean that you are less likely to
consider anti-user practises in order to generate income at some point in
future.

------
blntechie
I used it for about 3-4 months when 'Stack' was introduced but went back to
Link Bubble + Chrome. I couldn't exactly remember why I went back to LB +
Chrome but mostly due to 'Stack' being too rigid to my liking compared to Link
Bubble (back button not closing the stack, no easy jumping between stacks,
scrolling and stack animations kind of wonky etc.)

All things said, I loved the browser experience. Especially easy access to
bookmarks on right edge swipe and always available refresh button. I will
definitely try it again. Speed dial looks good.

Edit: Just installed again and wow!! It totally looks different from the
version I used some time back. Looks more slick and pretty now. Will
definitely try again. Especially the 'Stack' behavior.

~~~
jonalmeida
I'm on a Nexus 5 and have major memory leak issues with LB (I've reported
them) if you keep the "bubble" open for too long. Chrome is very heavy as well
in general, so Javelin is a really nice refresher what a fast browser feels
like.

I just bought the pro version and I'm going to use it for a while before I
comment more on it.

~~~
blntechie
I use a Nexus 5 as well but have not personally encountered the memory leak
issue with Link Bubble. But I don't keep the bubbles open very long as well.

I just went ahead and bought the Javelin Pro version as well. I like what
developer is doing here.

------
zanethomas
I'm interested but don't want to use the "play" store. Can you provide some
other download link?

~~~
ikt
Why don't you want to use the play store? Just wondering is all.

~~~
niklasni1
Personally, I don't have Google Apps on my phone at all. If it's not in
F-Droid or available as an apk from the developer, it doesn't get installed.

~~~
eli
That seems limiting. Is it because you don't trust Google?

~~~
junto
You are forced to have a Google account to use Google Play.

Once you have a Google account on your phone it is privacy game over.

~~~
eli
I think that's a _little_ bombastic. So is that a custom ROM or stock Android
with no account set? Seems like if you deeply distrust Google you probably
wouldn't want to run Android at all.

~~~
junto
You misunderstand me. I was simply articulating what I assumed the poster
meant by his comment:

    
    
      Personally, I don't have Google Apps on my phone at all.
      If it's not in F-Droid or available as an apk from the 
      developer, it doesn't get installed.
    

I personally have a stock Nexus 4 and accept that I'm simply a Google
commodity. I accept that by having a Google Account on my phone means that
Google are tracking everything I do, who I talk to, who I message, every
website I visit and every opinion and iota of information about me, even some
that they have extrapolated about me that I personally didn't realise, Google
already knows. I accept that if Google knows this, the NSA can also get hold
of this information relatively easily.

However, I don't work for any company of NSA interest. I have no threatening
political or religious affiliations. I don't pose a threat to the status quo.
I am not a wolf. I am a sheep. Therefore, my privacy can be traded for free
Google features - slurp...

@niklasni1 though probably does care, which is why he doesn't use Google Play,
because then he would need a Google account on his phone, that subsequently
would be tracked by Google wherever he goes. Maybe @niklasni1 has a networking
job for a European satellite provider that the NSA finds interesting. Maybe he
is worried about being tasked. In which case, it isn't bombastic at all.

------
shock
It looks very good. It's a pity it only syncs with Chrome and not with
Firefox.

~~~
tempestn
Agreed! I'd give it a try right now, but Firefox sync is a must-have for me.
In fact, I'm considering giving up Dolphin Browser, even though I prefer it to
Firefox for Android, because their "Dolphin Connect" Firefox add-on noticeably
bogs down the browser, to the point where I often have it disabled.

------
darklajid
I would - without trying to bash the project - like to understand what lures
people into using this app?

I understand that I'm not the target here - I dislike Chrome/Chromium and I am
a happy Firefox user.

But what drives people to use this browser? The UI alone? Maybe it would be
something I can recommend to family and friends? Any decent, concise "This is
why I like/use this thing" story?

------
l33tbro
Awesome browser. But why use "gorgeous" as a descriptor? It's become such a
meaningless term in tech, even when Jobs was still peddling it about.

It seems trivial, but seeing that word often is a red flag for an uninspired
product. You guys have done great work, so I'm surprised your marketing isn't
as great as the browser. Best of luck

------
instakill
Ha! Reddit definitely doesn't look that great on mobile.

~~~
TulliusCicero
Yeah, isn't that a reddit-specific app?

~~~
kevincrane
Yeah, it's "Reddit Is Fun" (my favorite reddit app I've used)

[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.andrewshu....](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.andrewshu.android.reddit&hl=en)

------
jessedhillon
I like it a lot. But I have a tangential question: has anyone found a good
writeup on rise of the use of adjectives like gorgeous, stunning, beautiful,
amazing to describe apps? Aside from my personal opinion, I'd like to know if
anyone else has observed and written about this trend.

~~~
AdamFernandez
I have not seen a write up on this, but whenever I see it, it seems strange.
Calling your own app 'gorgeous' or 'stunning' may come off as conceited. Those
are subjective terms. If the UX is positively impacted by the appearance, call
that out in the copy. I think it would be better to let your users gush over
the appearance of the app using subjective terms in reviews or testimonials.

------
gegtik
This addresses a pain point I didn't even realize I had -- waiting for the
browser context switch followed by waiting for the page to load, followed by
impatiently scrolling the page while it continues to parse, sometimes causing
janky scroll teleporting as images are embedded above my viewport.

This is simply fantastic. Pro purchased.

One suggestion -- if it is possible to insert yourself as two entries on the
Open With page, it would be nice to have the option to click a link and open
with "Javelin" or "Javelin (Reader Mode)" (I'm talking about the android
system popup for handling mime types)

------
jonalmeida
Just out of curiosity, what are you using to parse the reading view of a
webpage. It seems really fast so I doubt you're using Readability; probably
some local library?

------
samsaga2
Please, don't use automatic translator.

The text: "Jabalina es una hermosa, móvil-en primer lugar, y el pensamiento
para navegadores de Android"

It has no sense.

~~~
Zardoz84
Using automatic translator back to english : "Believes that the first and the
Android browser - Javelin nice phone"

Really DON'T USE AUTOMATIC TRANSLATOR!

Also, nice browser. I trying it, mainly by the "block ads" feature

------
ezequiel-garzon
You had me at "reading mode". I can't believe text wrap, pervasive in smart-
and not-so-smart-phones of yore, is today considered a rarity. Thankfully I'm
not alone [1].

[1]
[https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=62378](https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=62378)

~~~
drcode
It would fantastic (and easy, technically, I think) to add a link to "reading
mode" that starts text-to-speech.

------
shreeshga
Just curious, which browser engine does it use?

------
fdsary
Wow, this makes me want to ditch my iPhone...

------
microsby0
Any thoughts of an iOS version as well? This really makes me jealous of
Android users

------
Miraries
Any particular reason it's not compatible with OnePlus One and Nexus 10 on
Google Play? I get it if tablets aren't supported. I could get the apk but I
was wondering... If testing is the reason, I can help.

~~~
nubela
I have no idea to be honest, Google Play does that sometimes.

------
roryokane
Bug reports for the developer nubela:

Swipe from the left to open the menu, then scroll down, so that part of the
text is cut off, then swipe to the left to close the menu part of the way, but
drag your finger back right before the menu closes. If you now scroll, the
cut-off text is still visible, creating weird visual artifacts. This goes away
when you close the menu completely and reopen it.

When I edit the title and URL of a bookmark, the buttons are “Cancel” and
“Edit”. I think “Save” would work better. I feel like what I am doing is
already “editing”, since I chose “Edit” to get here.

I tried to set Javelin as the default browser, but when the browser list
popped up, by reflex I hit Just Once instead of Always. But Javelin still said
“Javelin is now your default browser”. (Then I realized what had happened and
went back and did it again.) If possible, Javelin should detect when the user
clicked the wrong button. If that is not possible, maybe you should show a
small picture of the Always button before showing the dialog, to remind the
user to hit that button.

In the page describing the Pro features, one of them is choosing your
homepage. But I can already do that in the free version. It works when I go to
Settings > Change homepage.

Javelin doesn’t support a blank homepage. I tried setting the homepage to
nothing (“”) or to “about:blank”, but either way, the homepage just becomes
“Webpage not available”. The error shows because Javelin is automatically
adding an “[http://”](http://”) before “about:blank” – “about:” pages should
have no protocol.

I tried to press and hold on the icons (the eye icon and share icon) in the
toolbar to see a tooltip describing what they do. However, those icons don’t
have tooltips. I would have liked to have been able to see a “Reading Mode”
tooltip when I pressed and held on the eye icon instead of having to actually
press it to find out. The icons in the toolbar for reading mode have the same
problem.

When there are no tabs, I see a message “Javelin Browser, flies.” The message
confused me a bit because it is ungrammatical. It should be either “Javelin
Browser flies.” or “Javelin Browser – it flies.”

I couldn’t get Javelin Sync to work at all. I authorized it for my Google
account and saw the message saying I have been sent an email. But my bookmarks
are still the default Javelin ones (minus the ones I manually deleted); none
of them are my Chrome for Android bookmarks. This is still the case even after
I “Sync bookmarks now” – though since that command gives no feedback, I
couldn’t tell whether it worked. (I didn’t install the desktop Chrome
extension linked in the email because I don’t want that home page, but the
email said my device was already synced, so that shouldn’t make a difference.)
So either your Sync is broken or there is another step that you forgot to
mention, like “wait one hour” or “restart your phone” or something.

In the menu on the left, the checkboxes look a little weird, because it is a
blue checkmark on a turquoise background. I can see it, but I think they would
look better if you made the check-marks very light gray, a color closer to the
text but still distinct from it.

When I logged into a site, I got two dialog boxes asking me to save the
password. The first was a generic Android one like in Google Chrome. I clicked
Not Now, and then Javelin showed its colorful one at the bottom. You should
hide the default one so that only the Javelin one shows.

I couldn’t figure out how to activate the “Fullscreen Browsing” that you show
in one of your website’s screenshots. I tried scrolling through web pages, and
I looked at all the settings, but I never had the Action Bar and the soft
buttons displaying but transparent like in the screenshot. The soft buttons
are always visible. I can hide the Action Bar completely with that setting,
but then I can’t open it all from within the app, and that’s different from
the screenshot anyway. It’s not described as a Pro feature on the Enable
Javelin Pro page either. You should make it more obvious how to enable that
mode, or remove the screenshot if that feature is now gone.

This is a big list of bugs, many tiny ones and some big ones, but I’m still
trying out Javelin for now – you haven’t driven me back to Chrome yet. I am
especially interested in your Adblock and full-screen features (so it’s too
bad I can’t figure out how to use full-screen). I wish you luck with
developing your browser.

~~~
nilkn
Something I noticed is that when I open several pages in Stack view externally
from the app, then open the Stack in the full browser, the tabs don't properly
get thumbnails until I manually switch to them all.

Regardless, this is clearly a forward-thinking mobile browser, more so than
Chrome, and so I support it wholeheartedly.

------
spihn3
Adblock and readability feature integration is great! As a developer, could I
ask you how you are implementing the readability feature? Is this done client
side?

------
grumblestumble
Very minor nitpick: Your usage of "thought out" comes across as stilted and
unprofessional. I'm guessing English isn't your native language?

~~~
anigbrowl
I disagree. It's an unconventional usage but one that struck me as both
deliberate and effective.

BTW almost all people in Singapore grow up speaking English, it's the common
language of 4 ethnic groups and is used on all signs, government
correspondence and so forth.

~~~
wingerlang
I disagree. I made me re-read the sentence more than once, and I still think
it doesn't feel right.

~~~
random_ind_dude
I feel "well thought-out" would be a better way to phrase it.

------
cmdrfred
Looks good. Adblock integration is a nice touch, thats pretty much my first
line of defence when it comes to anti-malware on the systems I administrate.

~~~
dmix
Toggling JS off also makes mobile browsing super-fast and much safer.

I wish it was easy to toggle on/off. Mobile chrome is a couple clicks.

~~~
cmdrfred
I wish I had the option if I disabled JS on my work machines none of the
insurance company portals would work.

------
joshvm
My only criticism is that the icon is practically a mirror image of Telegram,
but that's not exactly your fault.

Is there a way to save pages for offline viewing?

------
maxpert
It's not material design! Nothing accept colors is material design. No
animations, no guidelines nothing!

------
Kiro
What rendering engine are you using?

~~~
nubela
AOSP webview

~~~
higherpurpose
Did you fix this? (should be fixed in 4.4+ webview, I think, if that's what
you're using for all supported devices)

[https://community.rapid7.com/community/metasploit/blog/2014/...](https://community.rapid7.com/community/metasploit/blog/2014/09/15/major-
android-bug-is-a-privacy-disaster-cve-2014-6041)

~~~
aeling
Just tested (using ejj.io/SOP.php), Javelin on my Note 3 isn't vulnerable.

------
thrush
Slightly unrelated question, but is there an equivalent for iOS app extensions
on Android?

~~~
nubela
Intents could be the answer. See
[http://developer.android.com/guide/components/intents-
filter...](http://developer.android.com/guide/components/intents-filters.html)

------
shekhar101
Desktop chrome sync and native ad-block! Woooha! I'm sold!

------
ahstilde
I like it a lot! Any way you could have it sync with Firefox?

~~~
nubela
The API is there but it's closed for now as it is just not ready for other
developers (too raw). Also, not a firefox user myself.

------
tambourine_man
Ironically, I get a blank page on my iPhone

------
anishkothari
Looks great! I'm going to try this out

------
ultim8k
Kudos man! It really looks beautiful.

------
N0RMAN
Why do you offer it for free?

~~~
nubela
There is a Pro upgrade as an IAP. There's also an in-built proxy/vpn service
in the browser. This is how I see myself growing Javelin down the road with
the browser as the razor, and value-added services as the blade.

~~~
icambron
I obviously haven't thought about this as long as you have, but offhand I
think that model is a mistake. Only a small subset of people (and perhaps a
bunch of companies) want things like proxy support or VPNs or other extra
services. Most people just want to browse the web, so you're limiting your
market a lot.

(I do think you could make value-added browser services a business, but you'd
have to go to enterprises to do it.)

~~~
juliangoldsmith
That assumes that his main goal is to make a profit, rather than just put out
a good product which generates a little bit of passive income.

~~~
icambron
I don't see why. Passive income vs profit is not really dichotomy; passive
income is a question of how much work you put in, whereas profit is how much
you make _relative_ to how much you put in. Regardless of how you structure
your commitments, more profit is better than less profit.

You could argue that to be successful at generating a passive income of any
magnitude, you'd be better off selling value-added services on top of a free
browser rather than just selling a browser. I'd be curious to hear that
argument, because the opposite seems true: making freemium work means that you
need to invest not just in making a great free product that people will use,
but also invest in creating enough additional value to make the sale. Thus I
think wanting a lower commitment to the company actually says you should just
sell the browser.

------
robinhoodexe
Looks pretty slick!

