
Elon Musk calls for breakup of Amazon - noad
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1268603809409888256
======
enitihas
In what sector is Amazon a monopoly. Retail? Walmart is much larger and
Amazon's share of the market is too small to be a monopoly. Ecommerce? Even in
ecommerce, Amazon's share is <50%. Fun fact, Tesla has a 60% of electric car
market in the US ([https://electrek.co/2020/02/04/tesla-electric-car-sales-
us-m...](https://electrek.co/2020/02/04/tesla-electric-car-sales-us-market-
share/)). Does that mean Tesla is a monopoly, and should be broken up?

~~~
libertine
Honestly this came to me after I've read your reply, and I think you're onto
something:

Is the 50% market share really necessary to claim who's a monopoly?

Maybe it's time to re evaluate the definition of monopoly.

~~~
enitihas
Sure, let's give politicians a stick to break businesses arbitrarily, since we
don't like objective criterias. Got a problem with some CEO, cry monopoly and
break it up.

~~~
libertine
I didn't say we shouldn't have criterias.

I said that the "50% market share" seems to have flaws. Why not look at market
caps?

Well, the last monopoly was broken in 1982, isn't odd that since then no other
monopoly has ever existed?

You currently have monopolies that serve political agendas, that's a better
stick I guess.

~~~
enitihas
What does monopoly have to do with market cap? Market cap is an abstract
concept on how much the market values something, and doesn't have much
concrete stuff to be based on. Market cap goes way up during bubbles. If
companies were to be broken for profits, there are so many companies ahead of
Amazon.

>Well, the last monopoly was broken in 1982, isn't odd that since then no
other monopoly has ever existed?

Many monopolies have existed, like Microsoft for the most famous example. But
there is no industry in which Amazon is a monopoly. Unless we were playing a
witch hunt where we had to create a monopoly by thin air, I don't know what
makes Amazon qualify as one.

~~~
libertine
>What does monopoly have to do with market cap?

Well my point is that 50% of a 100 million USD market is different from 50% of
1 trillion USD market. On the later you don't that much market share to pull
your weight on the market.

>If companies were to be broken for profits, there are so many companies ahead
of Amazon.

That wouldn't work, specially with the gymnastics that's done.

>But there is no industry in which Amazon is a monopoly.

Not even AWS?

~~~
enitihas
How is AWS a monopoly? There are several competitors, two with similar market
cap as Amazon and likely more cash in the bank. AWS neither builds on any pre
existing monopoly, not is being used to push another product.

Contrast this with Azure, which greatly benefited from the Windows and Office
monopoly. I am pretty sure the Windows, AD, Office monopoly is the prime
reason Azure is where it is today.

------
sharkmerry
Is amazon the only way to pubish an ebook?

Surely he could just post a PDF for paid download and have readers send the
PDF to kindle if they really need to read it there.

Calling a book "unreported truths..." while things are rapidly changing is
misleading at best

------
nix23
Well he's absolutely right, but in 20 years when SpaceX owns the only Mars-
Colony/City i vote also to breakup SpaceX

~~~
MrZongle2
If there's a viable Mars colony care of SpaceX in 20 years, I'll happily call
for their breakup _and_ sing their praises at the same time.

~~~
nix23
Your are probably disappointed about a corporate owned planet..just saying ;)

------
Spivak
I don’t really know what anyone in this situation wanted to happen here?
Amazon and Apple and Google have been trying to stem the tide of a massive
wave of low-quality books and apps hitting their stores trying to make a quick
buck off people’s ignorance and fear.

Refusing to publish content related to COVID because nobody has the time and
resources to go through them all is the best you can do. If they just let
people publish the story would be “Amazon doing nothing about COVID
misinformation spreading through their store.”

~~~
nix23
Yeah, his point are not are not good, but if you think about the Bell-Story
(the us allowed just one company to take over the phones-lines the other can
make the computers), if you look at amazon and google today, that's definitely
a mono-pol.

~~~
enitihas
In what sector is Amazon a monopoly?

~~~
nix23
Shopping, Data-centers, Live-Streaming, Audio-book's and E-books maybe even
logistics.

Edit: Hey Jeff please stop down-voting me, you know it's the truth ;)

~~~
logicprog
Quoting a comment from upstream in response to this:

> In what sector is Amazon a monopoly. Retail? Walmart is much larger and
> Amazon's share of the market is too small to be a monopoly. Ecommerce? Even
> in ecommerce, Amazon's share is <50%.

So let's summarize: Amazon isn't a monopoly in "shopping" in any sense; there
are other companies that run datacenters; since when does Amazon do live
streaming? (and even if it does there are a million other apps/websites more
people use for that); they don't have a monopoly in audiobooks; and they
CERTAINLY don't have a monopoly in ebooks.

Just because they're a big noticeable name doesn't make them a monopoly. I'd
downvote you if you could, and my name isn't Jeff.

~~~
nix23
1: Waltmart is just us, amazon is global (try to think about that the world is
bigger then just the us please)

2: Livestreaming - Twitch, with you're arguments google is not a monopoly
(there are other search-engines) and no, livestreaming to millions is not
something 1000 other apps can do...know why...datacenters

3: Audible probably 90% market-share

4: Ebooks of course they are the biggest seller of ebooks in combination with
kindle's

5: Yes there are other's but the only competitor is Azure and google..that's
maybe the only point where you are right

~~~
enitihas
1\. Walmart operates in many countries, plus their US only revenue might be
larger than Amazon's all retail revenue. Plus Google, Apple, Microsoft,
Facebook operate in nearly all countries, a much bigger number than Amazon.

2\. Twitch is restricted to a niche. Facebook video, YouTube, and even TikTok
all have more users.

3\. This might be correct but this is a very small market. Microsoft has
similar market share in Office Suits.

4\. Biggest seller doesn't make a monopoly. If it did, every industry will
bave a monopoly.

5\. How is AWS a monopoly there, when so many competitors exist, and the likes
of Google have humongous internal data centres which might be on the same
scale as all of AWS.

~~~
nix23
>Google, Apple, Microsoft, Facebook

Not shopping/ecommerce..oh and i never said that google is not a monopoly

>Twitch is restricted to a niche

Facbook, ~youtube, TikTok ist NOT Livestreaming...also not Zoom or Skype

>Biggest seller doesn't make a monopoly

When you (Amazon) can make the price because everything other is a loss for
you (the producer)..yes then it is a monopoly

>How is AWS a monopoly there

Yes i wrote thats maybe the only point you are right

Oh and here a interesting link for your Walmart-theory:
[https://www.supermarketnews.com/retail-financial/amazon-
pred...](https://www.supermarketnews.com/retail-financial/amazon-predicted-
pass-walmart-largest-retailer)

~~~
stalled
TikTok is not primarily livestreaming, but it does have live streams (with
live chat overlay on top of video, looking very similar to live streaming
interface of Instagram or Periscope)

So apparently TikTok Live is mostly a competitor to those two (and maybe
YouNow) but not to widescreen/desktop-oriented streams of Twitch

YouTube Live on the other hand is very much a competitor to Twitch
(livestreaming to millions and NOT auto-expiring/deleting past broadcasts by
default is something only YouTube can do for now)

------
mandeepj
A couple of days ago he tweeted - "off twitter for a while". I knew he'll be
back soon. So, there he is. His "while" is very short :-).

There's a pattern here. He wants to be in the news actively. So, he picks up
one thing or another. If you are not paying for marketing then you have to do
it yourself.

------
m0zg
He's right though. As far as the first amendment goes, books are the most
robust medium we have. You can go to Amazon right now and buy a copy of Mein
Kampf, hardcover, paperback, or Kindle. Surely Berenson's book is not worse
than Mein Kampf?

Here's a though experiment, reductio ad absurdum, if you will.

Say you like Bezos' politics and agree with the stuff he wants to censor. Say
tomorrow Bezos is run over by a bus and, through a weirdest twist of fate in
history (bear with me on this one) Richard Spencer takes his place, complete
with his own, very different editorial preferences.

Would you still agree that Amazon, as a company, has an unimpeded right to
censor speech then? And if not, you need to think very carefully why you're
_not_ against giving them this power now.

~~~
erichocean
> _You can go to Amazon right now and buy a copy of Mein Kampf_

Not in Germany.

I sell books worldwide on Amazon, and the number of titles that are banned in
countries (not just Germany, BTW) is pretty astounding.

And it's mostly not Hitler stuff, either.

~~~
m0zg
The vast majority of countries do not have freedom of speech. Germany is one
of those countries. You will say and do whatever Merkel tells you to say and
do. The United States is not like that.

------
christefano
CNBC article with more: [https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/04/elon-musk-calls-for-
amazon-s...](https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/04/elon-musk-calls-for-amazon-split-
after-alex-berenson-claims-censorship.html)

------
kukx
Elon is right it is insane. We do not want monopolies. And especially
monopolies on information, books. I am not convinced that splitting a company
by a government is the best solution, however in this case I do not see any
other quick way to restore a balance, well maybe Amazon choosing to
immediately stop its censorship policy.

------
8bithero
It seems that Blue Origin must be making good progress.

~~~
MrZongle2
Maybe some day they'll actually reach orbit, instead of just the edge of
space.

