
Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018) - dopplerac
https://drop.com/talk/10016/anatomy-of-a-mechanical-keyboard
======
aasasd
You'd think that with the DIY freedom people would be making Kinesis
Advantages and slapping touchpads in the middle. But no, somehow it's the same
old flat boards for arms that grow out of the chest and fingers that extend
out of the hand instead of rotating on joints; with the typewriters' staggered
layout that makes no sense on electronic keyboards. Only now they're a couple
centimeters higher so the wrists are even more crooked, and of course there's
no wrist support.

~~~
TurboHaskal
It’s not only the form factor. They’re also obsessed with high resistance
switches (going as high as 65 and even 80g activation point) which is sure way
to develop RSI.

You should aim to go as low as possible but still avoiding accidental
activation when resting your fingers on the keyboard. For most people, that
means between 30 and 35g.

Realforce makes a bunch of them but they’re not held in high regard by the
mechanical keyboard community because they don’t feel tactile enough. Let
alone the fact that they dare using rubber in the keyboards.

Fortunately they seem to be busier building them from scratch and posting the
results on Reddit than actually typing.

~~~
Slackwise
Actually, increasing resistance has reduced my strain from typing. After a few
minutes of typing, I start to bottom out less and less, and instead I feel
like I have little shock absorbers under each key, reducing the impact of
every press.

As for the community, most seem to dislike high resistance switches, which is
why my preference for MX Clears leaves me with few brands to purchase from,
and my dream ideal of a higher resistance Topre will probably never happen.

~~~
TurboHaskal
You can install some BKE Redux domes. I hate those, so you'll probably love
them.

~~~
Slackwise
I actually like the domes as they are. What I want is, somehow, to increase
the spring tension _after_ the dome collapses, so that I don't slam into the
baseplate.

------
megous
I wonder if this is the audiophile equivalent of computer enthusiasm.

I mean, like audiophiles buying gold cables for 10x the price and no reason,
and using 20's tech (vacuum tubes) in their amps, selecting individual tubes
and all that...

So here the keyboard enthusiasts select their switches, key curvatures,
materials, etc. and the result might just be some placebo feel good
improvement and more noise for everyone else.

~~~
segfaultbuserr
> _I wonder if this is the audiophile equivalent of computer enthusiasm._

Obviously, there are many similarities, for examples,

* Community-driven

* DIY

* Emphasis on personal paste and preferences

This is why, drop.com is actually a well-known group-buy website that offers
BOTH audiophiles AND mechanical keyboards.

> _I mean, like audiophiles buying gold cables for 10x the price and no
> reason, and using 20 's tech (vacuum tubes) in their amps, selecting
> individual tubes and all that..._

But there are some important differences as well. Computer enthusiasm is
either the delivery of objective performance or personal tastes and
preferences. However, a large subset of the audiophile market is
pseudoscientific, useless snake-oil that pretends to be an objective
improvement.

Using vacuum tubes and selecting them individually is a personal preference,
but buying "cryo-treated" vacuum tubes, some questionable power conditioners,
and gold cables and actually believing them can have a significant effect
(compared to, let's say, spending the money on upgrading the sound source or
the acrostics of your room) is pure snake-oil.

On the other hand, computer enthusiasts know exactly what they are buying for,
the transparency and competition is radical in the industry, unlike parts of
the audiophile market.

> _some placebo feel good improvement_

There is no placebo effect, as mechanical keyboards users simply say that it's
comfortable to type, and I don't see claims about how they can make you type
faster (on the other hand, whether advocacy of alternative keyboard layouts
are completely placebo effects would be something worth an actual discussion,
e.g. I'm currently typing this on Dvorak).

You'll know without question that two mechanical keyboards have different
characteristics, and you would have a personal preference. On the other hand,
the same cannot often be said for some audio "equipment" such as a gold cable.

~~~
oposa
I don't know. I think there are some parallels, but more in the sense that
many audiophile probably don't care that much about the audio. It is more
about singling that you are successful enough to buy and care about different
things. I think the same can be true of mechanical keyboards (and tech gadgets
in general). People like the idea of something being special and having time
for that more than they care whether it is. Which is why you will likely find
that most people care more about the keycaps than the decaps.

------
thrwaway442
Now seems like a good time to ask: does the loud, audible click of a
mechanical keyboards increase the user's accuracy? Are our ears in the loop,
consciously or not?

A family member had a mechanical keyboard with a cherry mx switch and I tried
it out with an online typing test I'd tried before.

I could type about 20% faster than usual, which is already way up there. I
easily hit 135+ in several segments[1], which is insane.

I easily felt when I was making a mistake, I had confidence in what I was
typing. (because of each little click.)

But it was also really loud.

Is that necessary? Is it part of what made me fast and accurate?

The obvious way to test this which would not change the feel of the keyboard
at all, would be to put in foam earbuds and then see if my typing rate or
accuracy drops when I can't hear the keyboard. Unfortunately I didn't have any
with me so I didn't try it.

Can someone who uses a mechanical keyboard comment on whether the audible
noise from it is part of the typing loop? if someone here has the inclination
and a mechanical keyboard and happens to have hearing protection with them
could you try it and tell me whether your typing rate or accuracy drops if you
can't hear the keyboard? (if you do an online typing test with strong hearing
protection in.)

If it does not, then why aren't there any absolutely silent keyboards that
just have the feel (tactile feedback) but without any loud click?

I plain can't decide if this clickety-clack noise is part of the feedback loop
the typist uses or not. My family member's keyboard was incredibly loud.

\--

[1] I'm being very literal so just to show you, on my own keyboard now I took
a screenshot 15 seconds into a test, before I made any mistakes:
[https://imgur.com/a/eOejvsu](https://imgur.com/a/eOejvsu) \- this was really
hard for me to do now. On my own keyboard I can average 100 wpm for 60 seconds
but it's really hard:
[https://imgur.com/a/tClgZR4](https://imgur.com/a/tClgZR4)

~~~
atoav
I have a keyboard with silent black MX switches and I never felt any need for
clickyness.

The cool thing about these linear switches (Black, Red, Silver, Grey) is that
you can type extremely silent if you like to, by just hovering the keys or you
can type loudly by bottoming them out (if somebody was wrong on the internet
or so).

When I type silently it is less loud than my lenovo notebook keyboard.

For me the click was never really necessary — the resistance of the spring is
already enough. Maybe it is because I play guitar, bass and piano.

~~~
the_pwner224
> I have a keyboard with silent black MX switches and I never felt any need
> for clickyness.

I had a red keyboard and I never felt that it was necessary. But then I got a
blue and I would never go back. Just because the sound isn't necessary or
helpful doesn't mean it's pleasing to have it.

Like a big moon roof in a car, if you've never had one you may not really see
the point, but once you get one the feeling of having light coming in from
overhead is something that you quickly begin to enjoy.

You may want to try this program - even though I have blues I keep it enabled
when I use headphones or when I am using the laptop keyboard:
[https://github.com/zevv/bucklespring](https://github.com/zevv/bucklespring)

~~~
thrwaway442
I'm having a little trouble following. Do I have this right:

\- blues are louder than reds

\- You had a red keyboard and you didn't think you needed the noise

\- but then you got the blue which was much louder and you enjoyed this

If that's what you mean, what did you mean by this:

>Just because the sound isn't necessary or helpful doesn't mean it's pleasing
to have it.

do you mean "just because it isn't necessary doesn't mean it's NOT pleasing to
have it" (in fact for you it IS pleasing to have it - you enjoy the noise?)

let me know if I am reading your comment right. it sounds like you very much
enjoy hearing loud clicks, to the point of installing a program to emulate
them.

~~~
atoav
I know a lot of people who dislike the reds, they give the least feedback of
all the cherry MX switches (be it force feedback or acoustic feedback). They
are basically very light linear switches.

They are however popular in gaming, because the linearity of the force curve
allows for fast repeat rates. In fact they made a silver variant, which is
basically a red switch with a shorter travel way.

------
mruts
I’ve wanted to make a keyboard, but I’m not sure it’s possible to make
something materially better than the kinesis advantage. I switched to it 10
years after my hands would feel numb after typing.

I think I might have some problem other people don’t, but even for normal
people, I find it hard to believe that a kinesis wouldn’t be better for them
as well.

I’ve seen some split diy keyboards, but none of them have the great concave
wells kinesis does. Also the kinesis has macros, key remapping, and easy
switching between Dvorak and QWERTY. Being able to type your password with one
button is super cool!

~~~
jakobegger
> Being able to type your password with one button is super cool!

Do you really have a button on your keyboard mapped to type your password? If
that's the case, I'm horrified.

But I secretely wish I had a button like that too...

~~~
mythrwy
You can have exactly that if you set your password to "a"!

------
drewg123
What I want is a non-radical, normal sized, ergonomic mechanical keyboard. I
basically want an MS natural keyboard with a decent feel. Does such a thing
exist?

Why are so many mechanical keyboards tiny? They don't want to spend the money
for more switches?

I thought I found something "close enough" in this split mechanical keyboard
([https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FK74QY5/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b...](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FK74QY5/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)).
But it is "tiny" and doesn't have normal function keys, etc. After a while its
lack of keys drove me crazy and I went back to my old mushy MS Natural.

~~~
oposa
> Why are so many mechanical keyboards tiny? They don't want to spend the
> money for more switches?

Yes, to some extent at least. But maybe more the pcb, plate, case etc. I have
a pcb for a ms natural style keyboard (without the numpad) and the effective
size is 40x15 cm (16x6 inches). Not that expensive to get in China, but I
guess it is has also become fashion with smaller boards now. I think the whole
thing sort of started with modifying pok3r, ducky, ninja type keyboards

~~~
drewg123
That sounds like exactly what I want. Are you selling a keyboard around it? I
don't need the numpad, but after 10+ years of ms natural, I'm used to the
remainder of the layout.

~~~
oposa
Unfortunately not in the foreseeable future. It is a couple of years old at
this point, and I haven't really tested it either. I think you would also need
palm rests to recreate the experience well enough.

------
xupybd
That's a well written piece!

As someone with a mechanical Keyboard obsession I have this advice: "Walk away
now!". This is a expensive hobby the more you get the more you want. The first
fix is something cheap a couple hundred dollars. The next will be a little
more bespoke on and on it will go. Until spending $500 on a keyboard seems
like an everyday thing.

------
garbre
How many of these tiny keyboards need to ship before linux makes the magic
sysrq key remappable?

~~~
cogburnd02
Well, you can do it; you just have to patch your kernel. I googled 'linux
remap sysrq'.

~~~
garbre
Everything is possible if you patch your kernel...

------
Animats
As someone who restores old Teletype machines, I don't consider little key
units with clickers in them to be a "mechanical keyboard". On a real
mechanical keyboard, like a Teletype or an IBM Selectric, you cannot push two
keys at once. The mechanism resists that.

