
How much money do people need to be happy? - prakashk
https://qz.com/1211957/how-much-money-do-people-need-to-be-happy/
======
howeyc
Kind of makes sense to me, once you get to a point where you're set. That is
you can easily afford the main things (housing, food), plus the extras
(electronics, vacations, hobbies) you need a much larger income to "move the
needle" so to speak.

You still need to work 40 hours a week or whatever, and only get X weeks of
vacation. Having a 180K salary instead of 150K doesn't change any of these
obligations, or change your life in any significant way, you just put away
more money into the bank.

Of course, stepping from 40K to 100K in salary is practically life altering.
Unless you absolutely suck at budgets you can easily get out of debt and start
having real vacations. You can afford hobbies, etc.

That's one thing I've always wondered. Unless you can reach super high
incomes, the "buy/rent a jet" incomes, your life isn't that different from
"all the rest." You still commute to work daily, have a house, etc. I mean
sure, the house and car may have higher price points, but the lifestyle is
still the same. Maybe I'm wrong and all those luxury brand commercials are
right, spending 30 minutes (or however long) per day in a 80K car is so much
more rewarding than spending those 30 minutes in a 40K car.

~~~
LaurensBER
> Of course, stepping from 40K to 100K in salary is practically life altering.
> Unless you absolutely suck at budgets you can easily get out of debt and
> start having real vacations. You can afford hobbies, etc.

I live in the Netherlands where 40K is quite a reasonable income. I really
dont get why you would need 100k to do the things you need. Perhaps people
need to become a bit more frugal?

People here in general don't have any debt (except for mortgages) and a
vacation to an Asian country is 1-2k/month'(yes people sometimes do take 2
months vacations here). Even a month of Australia is only 3-4k. Hobbies? I
don't know what kind of exotic hobbies people have in the bay area but even
flying drones (relative expensive) is relative affordable if you get started
with a cheap Chinese drone before you buy an Expensive one.

Rent, family size, location, etc probably makes a huge difference but I really
don't think 100k is the magical number that you need to become happy.

~~~
fujiters
A month in Australia for 3-4k? I want a cost breakdown for this. Say you get a
deal and airfare is $500, that leaves about $100/day for the month. You could
probably find a hotel at that rate, but then you're left with nothing to spend
on food and activities. What am I missing? Friends and relatives who'll let
you stay with them?

~~~
jon_adler
I believe it would only be possible to maintain yourself as a backpacker on
$100 per day. This might be lower in the bush but true in most urban locations
in Australia.

------
Kluny
Anyone else find that even as they do their best to be frugal, expenses pile
up as fast as your paycheck does?

In my case, as soon as I started making decent money, I got a hearing and
glasses (I didn't have them before), started taking physiotherapy to fix my
shoulders, going to the dentist, changing the oil in my car on schedule,
buying shoes as they wore out instead of pushing them until they gave me hip
and knee problems, etc... I wouldn't say I was "unhappy" about any of those
things before I could afford them, but I simply didn't spend money on them.

~~~
sdrothrock
> Anyone else find that even as they do their best to be frugal, expenses pile
> up as fast as your paycheck does?

I've definitely experienced this. There are lots of things that you ignore
when you're poor because they're just not feasible, but once you've got the
money, they're not only feasible but foolish to not do.

------
cdoxsey
I'm always struck by this proverb:

> “Two things I ask of you, Lord; do not refuse me before I die: Keep
> falsehood and lies far from me; give me neither poverty nor riches, but give
> me only my daily bread. Otherwise, I may have too much and disown you and
> say, ‘Who is the Lord?’ Or I may become poor and steal, and so dishonor the
> name of my God.

One thing I didn't see in the comments here, though I may've just missed it,
is that with more money you have more of an opportunity to give it away. You
can make a real difference for people in need. I suspect not many in the HN
crowd tithe, by which I mean giving 10% of your income to charity, but perhaps
it's something to consider, and probably more fulfilling than a slightly nicer
car.

~~~
afewbob
I like your post. As a Christian myself, I've always found it likewise
fascinating.

God's teachings on money are sprinkled throughout scripture.

You are right: God expects us to give from what He provides us with.

One gives freely, yet grows all the richer; another withholds what he should
give, and only suffers want. Whoever brings blessing will be enriched, and one
who waters will himself be watered. Proverbs 11:24-25

Whoever trusts in his riches will fall, but the righteous will flourish like a
green leaf. Proverbs 11:28

Better is a little with righteousness than great income with injustice.
Proverbs 16:8

He who oppresses the poor to make more for himself or who gives to the rich,
will only come to poverty. Proverbs 22:16

Do not toil to acquire wealth; be discerning enough to desist. Proverbs 23:4

Basically, the concept of sacrificial giving is that it does hurt to give it.
Jesus made it clear that giving from your surplus is fairly meaningless.
Trusting in God and being obedient are what He expects. When you feel led to
give, give. The more you sow, the more you reap. But Jesus is very plain in
telling us to give in secret so as to please God. Men you give in public to be
seen and approved by men is wrong.

Tithing is something that is largely forgotten in the post-Christian world we
now find ourselves in. Peace.

~~~
driverdan
> Tithing is something that is largely forgotten in the post-Christian world
> we now find ourselves in. Peace.

That's simply not true. The 2016 World Giving Index[1] shows that their three
measures of charity have all increased over time, including financial
donations (page 16). Many of the top ten countries for percentage who donate
money have had decreased religiosity (page 21).

1: [https://www.cafonline.org/docs/default-source/about-us-
publi...](https://www.cafonline.org/docs/default-source/about-us-
publications/1950a_wgi_2016_report_web_v2_241016.pdf)

------
derekp7
Is this net income (after taxes, and possibly after 401k [or equivalent]
savings)?

I would say that having no debt, or at least having manageable debt, along
with knowing you are saving enough for retirement, and making enough that you
don't have to second-guess if you can afford every purchase you make, is the
real cutoff.

For example, if you don't have mortgage debt then you are probably renting. So
I consider mortgage "manageable" debt, along with any short-term debt that you
can pay off within a year.

The other thing to consider, is life is full of stress-inducing "things"
(situations, people, material objects, etc). Often times throwing money at the
stress makes the stress lower or go away. So if you make enough where you can
throw money at most of your stress and not break the bank, then that would
greatly impact your happiness.

~~~
ChuckMcM
I would not be surprised if you were exactly right with this: _I would say
that having no debt, or at least having manageable debt, along with knowing
you are saving enough for retirement, and making enough that you don 't have
to second-guess if you can afford every purchase you make, is the real
cutoff._

Many people I have talked with about happiness are really talking about non-
anxiety. Basically defining being 'happy' as having zero anxiety and being
'un-happy' as worrying about (anxious) one or more things.

In that model not having debt relieves future obligation anxiety, owning a
house addresses 'where will I live' anxiety, savings address 'what if
something comes up' anxiety etc.

If that model held true for the survey participants then once you had enough
income to offset your anxieties you would not get any more 'happy'.

~~~
tachyoff
What a sad indictment of modern American life that our baseline for happiness
is "not destitute". Really, I think that's telling, and as a millennial with
lots of student loan debt and friends in a similar boat, it's not surprising
one bit.

~~~
matte_black
Why should it be any higher?

Raise the baseline too high and you may never reach it, and never be happy,
despite having a good life. Is that what you want?

~~~
tachyoff
> Why should it be any higher?

Because it can be. Because we’re the richest country in the world and yet for
some reason we force people into bankruptcy because they didn’t have health
insurance on the day they had a medical emergency.

I want:

1\. People not to have to worry about seeing a doctor because they can’t
afford it.

2\. People not to have to worry about having shelter.

3\. People not to have to worry about where their next meal will come from.

4\. People to be able to provide a solid, basic, decent life for themselves
and their families.

5\. People to be able receive an education without it being onerously
expensive.

Among other things.

I don’t think these are intractable problems for a civilization that sent
people to the moon, perform open heart surgery, and deliver energy
consistently and safely to millions of people.

~~~
mherrmann
> Because we’re the richest country in the world

Are you? When I just Googled "richest country in the world", not a single
result placed the US in #1.

~~~
uiri
Yeah, I don' think that statement holds up to scrutiny at all.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if the median salary in the US was higher
than the median salary in Luxembourg/Ireland/Singapore/Brunei/oil-rich-middle-
east. Along with a lower tax burden resulting in higher net pay.

------
ivanhoe
I think the correct definition is: "When you have enough to survive and you
make as much money as people you compare yourself with". That's why back in
the days of socialism in Eastern Europe most of the people were quite content
with being relatively poor, as long as they had the sense of social security
and everyone else around them was as poor as them. On the other hand, nowadays
many freelancers from poorer countries (me included), who are making a lot of
money compared to their compatriots, are still not really happy as they don't
make as much as their colleagues on the West. As long as you know you could be
doing better you'll not be happy about the present situation... and soc. media
is not helping with this...

~~~
nickpp
Please do not put your propaganda in people's mouths.

I lived back in communist Eastern Europe and I can assure you nobody was
content in any way. It was a nightmare.

~~~
ivanhoe
So did I, but Eastern Europe is a wide term. Living conditions in Yugoslavia
were actually quite nice until the 80s. But I'm not saying it was a good
system (it wasn't, I'm not fond of communism at all), just that majority of
people were content with it for a long time. It's a statistical fact, and not
just in Yugoslavia, but you can hear from many people even in Russia or
Romania that they used to feel happier and safer than they do now, while their
conditions in absolute terms were really bad even from my Yugoslavian
perspective. People value safety the most, and than next it seems that they
value their social position in the group. If they get the both, they can feel
accomplished and that's the primary factor for us to feel good about our
lives.

------
Bucephalus355
There are a lot of posts, articles, and general interest over the last 15
years (compared to before) on “being and maximizing happiness”.

At face value, this seems very natural. However I think a lot could be gained
by tackling the necessity of even asking that question.

Nietzsche has this really interesting point that every philosopher since Plato
was most interested in “the truth” without seriously considering if “the
truth” was a bad thing, worth all the effort, or perhaps not as valuable as
other concepts.

In the same way, a lot of religions invert the happiness question, to great
effect. In Christianity, suffering is turned into a much more worthwhile and
meaningful pursuit; other religions distance themselves from happiness and
instead take more stoic and detachment-based paths. All of them don’t tend to
address “maximizing happiness” though because I think, being the product of
thousands of years of experience, any religion that tried to do that failed in
the face of life and history and would not succeed in gathering adherents.

~~~
Scarbutt
_Christianity, suffering is turned into a much more worthwhile and meaningful
pursuit_

Can you elaborate on that? not a christian, just curious.

~~~
tachyoff
Not a Christian, but I spend a lot of time at church (long story). Anyway,
self-sacrifice is one of the central tenets of Christianity, the idea being
that Jesus Christ took on human form to suffer and die on the cross to save
humanity from its grievous sins. As a result, self-sacrifice and martyrdom
come up all the time in the Bible [1].

I'm not particularly good at actual theology, and I'm sure different sects of
Christianity have different interpretations, but as I understand it, because
of Christ's sacrifice, personal suffering is seen as something noble, or even
venerable. I think it's easy to take this too far (e.g. people not accepting
help because it's "noble" to suffer, or that they "deserve it"), but I
digress.

[1] [https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Self-
Sacrifice](https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Self-Sacrifice)

------
jk2323
"Money doesn't make you happy. I now have $50 million but I was just as happy
when I had $48 million." Arnold Schwarzenegger

~~~
gowld
Will Arnold agree that he was just as happy with $1m? I'm happy to help him
find out.

------
petethomas
Years ago a real estate agent driving me around to look at property relayed a
somewhat pessimistic aphorism he'd picked up from his father: Life's a shit
sandwich, the more bread you have the less it tastes like shit.

~~~
mdorazio
I feel like that would be better paired with the "dough" double meaning
instead of bread. "Life's a shit pizza, the more dough you have the less it
tastes like shit."

~~~
gowld
Bread is a synonym for dough in that meaning

~~~
chii
dough is colloquialism for money, which makes the quote funnier due to the
double entendre.

~~~
phaemon
"Bread" is also a colloquialism for money. It's the same joke.

~~~
chii
I have never heard any rapper refer to money as bread!

~~~
DanBC
[https://www.etymonline.com/word/Bread](https://www.etymonline.com/word/Bread)

> Slang meaning "money" dates from 1940s, but compare breadwinner, and bread
> as "one's livelihood" dates to 1719. Bread and circuses (1914) is from
> Latin, in reference to food and entertainment provided by the government to
> keep the populace content. "Duas tantum res anxius optat, Panem et
> circenses" [Juvenal, Sat. x.80].

------
aidenn0
I've seen it suggested elsewhere that there is no saturation point, it's just
that the relationship is logarithmic, and truncated logarithmic datasets look
asymptotic.

~~~
endymi0n
You‘re probably referring to this research:

[https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2013/05/daily-...](https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2013/05/daily-
chart-0)

...which by the way I find extremely plausible, just judging by the fact that
most of our senses (hearing volume & frequency, light intensity, etc.) are
perceived in a logarithmic way.

That being said, my personal opinion is that money does not make people happy,
but it definitely prevents a lot of causes of unhappiness.

~~~
majos
Or as Kanye West put it, "having money's not everything, not having it is".

------
glangdale
I always feel compelled to introduce people to the sage words of that great
philosopher, Arnold Schwarzenegger, on this topic: "Money doesn't make you
happy. I now have $50 million but I was just as happy when I had $48 million."

------
monkeyfoop
Let's ask all the employment wage slaves how happy they are and then conclude
that they do not become happier above 105k based on self report.

What a joke.

A person making 500k or more or someone with high net worth is going to have a
more full life (not needing to work, help community, help family)

~~~
dgacmu
You say this, but you offer no evidence to contradict the study, which is
based on ... evidence that you're wrong.

But think about it: A single person making $105k is just touching the top 10%
of income earners in the US: [https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-
calculator/](https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/)

Having spent some time in about that bracket in an average cost-of-living area
(earned slightly more, but I'd spent the previous few years being a broke grad
student), I can attest that it felt amazingly rich - there were few things I
would have done with more money. My life satisfaction came from my job, my
relationships, and my hobbies.

There's a lot of evidence supporting the general conclusion that happiness is
either logarithmic in income, or asymptotic after a point. Just blowing it off
as "a joke" doesn't hold water. There's also considerable evidence that things
like friendships, family, good relationships with neighbors, etc., are much
more important contributors to happiness than income.

~~~
monkeyfoop
You felt rich at 105k?

We're talking about human happiness, the capacity for love, freedom, and self
actualization. Happiness.

We're not talking about buying overpriced liabilities such as fancy cars,
furniture and clothes.

I make over 150k and it's awful working 160 hours a month.

Think about why this study is messed up:

Wage earners spend the Best part of day typically indoors, taking orders from
another person.

Wage earners send their children to be taken care of by strangers.

Wage earners send their kids to the zombie factory (public schools)

The fact is that someone with a few million can:

\- take care of their own children/babies \- educate their own children \-
take care of their aging parents \- take care of sick relatives \- can explore
the world

Don't tell me that having 2M in the bank will not make you, your family, and
neighborhood FAR "happier" than someone making 300k in wage slavery.

I can tell you for a FACT that making that much money (millions) will
objectively lead to higher quality of life for people and their families.

I'm personally working hard now to accumulate several investment properties
and live free for life so that I can retire before 40 so that:

\- I can raise my kids \- help parents, family, friends \- explore world and
learn \- focus all my free time on healthy living \- get best medical
treatments

You damn right it will make me happier to be able to do yoga 3 times a day,
raising my kids and also building cool shit without Having to answer to a
boss.

You know it's true that lots of money makes you immeasurably more fulfilled.
Don't listen to socialist lies that you only need some bullshit 105k (<75k
after tax)

~~~
drukenemo
I'm totally with you here. But we need to realize very feel people
perceive/realize the world under these terms. Most people feel like they are
destined for a job their entire lives and that extreme wealth are for the few
lucky/extraordinary other ones. Even in an YC forum.

~~~
AstralStorm
The perception does not matter in as much as it is actually aligned with
reality. Which I suspect it actually is if you're not one of the initially
rich.

Few can produce ground-breaking ideas or are lucky enough to actually earn a
million dollars quickly (as opposed to stealing it).

~~~
drukenemo
Also, very few even try. Which I highly suspect has an awful impact on these
facts.

------
Gustomaximus
I feel the missing piece is income security.

If your earning $200k and sweating bullets to keep a high pressure job your
not going to be as happy as the $120k job for life middle management. Also as
the higher your income goes the few jobs at they bracket exist.

Whereas if the $200k job is for a person largely guaranteed a job at that pay
somewhere I feel that would provide more opportunity to do things you like and
increase happiness.

I've come across of a few of these studies. Has anyone separated out 'income
security'?

------
IkmoIkmo
To be honest, I'm kind of tired seeing this 'research finding' pop up over and
over again. It feels the whole world is familiar with it.

What I'm lacking is a thorough study of determinants and causal effects. Not
just intuition that we're satiated, but something deeper.

For example, where is the study that compares a $200k wage earner vs a $200k
capital earner, to provide indications that money merely be an approximation
for 'freedom' or 'lower stress'.

Where's the study that looks at whether diminishing returns to happiness from
money are due to social isolation the richer you get? i.e. making $100k a year
makes you look great in an $80k crowd, and still allows you to mingle with a
$40k crowd. But making $5m a year detaches you completely from being able to
have meaningful relationships with 95% of people without eventually being
viewed as different, unable to understand their daily plight and always
doubting whether people envy you or dislike you.

I don't know if any of those things are true, but they are interesting to
investigate. Not another superficial article talking about 'researchers have
found the most basic correlation and share superficial 100 year old intuitive
ideas about why that might be which they never investigated'.

------
thedirt0115
I feel like this is basic economics... money, like most things, has
diminishing marginal utility.

From a common sense standpoint, it's not so much that having money makes you
happy, but having to _worry_ about money definitely can make you unhappy.

Probably bad analogy: Eating a meal that I'd rate 9/10 doesn't make me much
happier than a meal that's 8/10, but having to worry about whether I'm going
to be able to eat today at all would definitely make me sad.

------
stevedekorte
Unless income is randomly assigned, how do we draw any causal conclusions?

For example, what if being predisposed to certain kinds of anxiety tend to
cause one to both make more money in order to have more security, and never be
satisfied with that security?

~~~
jhall1468
Because that variable is likely insanely small. High paying jobs generally
have a lot of anxiety associated with them, whether it’s difficult interviews,
a great deal of education or whatever.

------
adventured
I've never understood the absolute premise of: money can't buy happiness.

It very obviously can. I'm happy when I'm not living in a ditch. When I'm warm
in Winter. When I have food and I'm not afraid of starving to death. When I
can afford to pay my rent or mortgage. And those are the primitives. I'm
extremely happy when I can spend a month at the beach (say I live in the
mountains or midwest), or hop on a plane and enjoy the glorious creations of
cultures from Paris to Rome to Tokyo to Buenos Aires.

Up to a point? I call bullshit on that too. That's a lack of creativity.
Assuming we're not talking "point" = the scale of the universe or something
beyond reasonable human potential. I'd be very happy spending my life trying
to figure out how to benefit humanity with the $127 billion Bezos is sitting
on. It'd be an immense joy, it'd be challenging, it'd be rewarding, it would
fundamentally further my happiness.

There are various types of personal happiness, some are more core than others.
Articles that discuss the up to a point benefits of money always collapse due
to that.

~~~
gowld
Money can't buy happiness, but it can pay off unhappiness to leave you alone

------
tsomctl
To quote my grandpa (who started off with nothing and retired as a
millionaire): money doesn't buy happiness, but it sure makes it easier.

~~~
CodeCube
If you don't mind me/us asking ... what did your grandpa do to acquire his
wealth? Was he an entrepreneur?

~~~
tsomctl
Owned his own small plumbing business. Built a reputation of doing excellent,
reliable, honest work and was certified to do unusual things, like medical gas
in hospitals.

~~~
sjg007
The trades are undervalued I think as a career choice these days.

~~~
TaylorGood
A friend operates a boat cleaning business. One harbor and all sizes. Last
year he grossed $800k while netting $500k after paying out a floating crew of
5-10 guys, supplies etc.

Vastly under the radar yet a perfect fit for his boating interests.

------
wenc
> the psychologists who conducted the study find that the one making $200,000
> is probably no happier than the one making $120,000. This is because both
> the $120,000 and $200,000 women have incomes above $105,000, which according
> to their research is the point at which greater household income in the US
> is not associated with greater happiness. The technical term for this cutoff
> is the income “satiation point.”

Sounds like satiation point is where the lower levels of Maslow's hierarchy
have been satisfied.

This article [0] makes the point that mastery, belonging, and autonomy
contribute to happiness, as well as the worldview of abundance vs one of
scarcity.

[0] Why so many smart people aren't happy
[https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/04/why-
so-...](https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/04/why-so-many-
smart-people-arent-happy/479832/)

~~~
gowld
This research, like so many others,ignored the possibly that people want to
retire before they die, so need to amass savings.

~~~
AstralStorm
Exactly, incomplete results being similar to Odds Ratios in medicine not based
on endpoint mortality, morbidity and ratings.

Not to mention subject to massive binning effect. You might have binned single
people with married couples with kids, both of which have different
requirements.

------
Francute
Does anyone think this may be related to the fact that you don't have a hard
goal to seek for the money you are working?

For example; I want a new PC, so I work for 6 months working and thinking on
that new pc. Then finally, when I have enough money to buy it and do it, I
love it. The effort that cost me gives it an extra value to me. Exactly like
when you worked as a kid for the game you really wanted to have. Didn't matter
if the game ended being horrible, for you that game was special, and also you
could continue playing it after some years with nostalgia feelings.

If I have enough money, this effort is allmost zero. At the moment i get a new
need i could satisfy it.

Of course, this is just another hypothesis, and could explain why some people
says aren't happier with more money, probably they want something harder to
get and still achievable with money/work.

------
ryandrake
The real test for me is: Do I have sufficient assets to quit my job and still
maintain my current standard of living and spending habits? It has nothing to
do with wage income.

------
vinceguidry
I think people vastly underestimate the happiness potential that convenience
offers. Time is our scarcest asset, and wasting it is extremely distressing.
Stress is a big factor in perceived happiness. So yeah, spending money to save
time can have a large impact on how happy you are.

------
mancerayder
People need enough to not feel, or be, materially insecure. It's somewhat
subjective (I might have high demands with regards to caviar and champagne)
but usually not (groceries, roof, education, doctor).

What's interesting is that there's no mainstream concept for not-materially-
insecure. Perhaps, if there were, it would turn into a demand by the
population. And we can't have that.

~~~
tachyoff
I thought that's what the middle class was supposed to be (not-materially-
insecure, that is).

------
ppeetteerr
If you look at the happiness income in East Asia, you'll note it's higher than
in the US. This indicates that the value is not absolute (things you need to
be happy) but it's relative to the area.

The best indicator of happiness related to income I have seen concluded that
the income is relative to the income of your peers: if they make more money,
you will be less happy, if they make less, you will be more happy. This goes
well with the idea that people feel more fortunate when they are around people
who are less fortunate.

In short, if you want to feel happy about your life, hang out around people
who earn less.

~~~
gowld
Having wealthy friends creates wealth for you. Wealthy professional friends
means free medical/legal/financial advice, fancy homes to visit, fancy tools
and toys to borrow, all things you can't get from poor friends.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
On the other hand it would be rather sad to start selecting your friends based
on their wealth.

~~~
AstralStorm
Except everyone does it all the time. Friendships are assortative with few
exceptions. (Just like most couples.)

------
JepZ
I think money is just a something like food: you need it to some amount to
have a good life and having a bit more than you need increases your happiness
slightly. Having much more, doesn't change much.

There are two very important things to make you happy:

1\. Reason and Prospect

2\. Freedom (to execute)

Money can increase your level of Freedom (e.g. so you don't have to spend your
time working for someone else). A Reason doesn't have to be the reason of your
life. It just has to be something you want to accomplish (be rich; be a good
parent; be admired; etc.) in combination with an idea to get there (prospect).

------
sharemywin
\- geography probably plays into that.

\- family size.

\- at around $2-5 Million in assets you could live off the interest and do
what you want for work or not.

~~~
robotresearcher
The numbers are normalized for geography and family size.

------
sremani
If money does not buy you happiness, then you don't know where to shop!

\- a wise man.

------
WheelsAtLarge
The real answer, a little more than the people around you. Here's a simple
example, the upper middle class in Manhattan will need enough to keep their
lifestyle plus however much more so they are not at the bottom of the social
class. Let's guess $350,000 a year. Now go to Nigeria where the per capita GNP
is $1,200 a year and you give a person $5000 a year then that person would
jump up with joy.

There's not one number. The number is relative to where you live.

Here's a quote I like:

"When a man sits with a pretty girl for an hour, it seems like a minute. But
let him sit on a hot stove for a minute — and it's longer than any hour.
That's relativity." A. Einstein

It doesn't fit 100% but you get the idea.

------
raister
"There are only two things wrong with money: too much or too little." \-
Charles Bukowski, The Captain is Out to Lunch and the Sailors Have Taken Over
the Ship

------
tortoise1
I am making 105K and i am not sure about happiness. I am happy some part of
the day, then i am sleeping then i am working and then i am not happy for some
reason for few mins and then i am happy again for some other reason. Sometimes
mins are hours and some times day are days.

Is there anyone who is happy 24/7/365?

Why is there such measurement of happiness? When it cannot really be measured.

Some times when there is one kid playing with me i am happy and when some
times there are 10 kids around me screaming i am not happy.

I think these days we really need a down vote and dislike buttons as i don't
understand why money and time is being wasted into such misleading research
efforts.

You can be happy with $0 and happy with $1,000,000. and also you can be not
happy with $0 and not happy with $1,000,000.

It is the amount of time you are happy, and i don't think anyone on this
planet can be happy 24/7/365.

The number of happy moments may be something that is measurable but that also
cannot be tied to any other factor.

I think if the AI is built on top of such false big data then its just going
to result into artificial stupidity.

We don't need more of those.

------
mcgarnagle
1,000,000 dollars, source
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKKHSAE1gIs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKKHSAE1gIs)

~~~
justherefortart
My number was 2.25m out of college, it's more like 6-8 now. Fortunately, I'll
likely never get there so my continually failing startup streak will continue
in perpetuity!

------
908087
Personally, there was a point where I had / was making enough that I felt the
need to conceal that fact from people, particularly when I first met them.
This meant that I had to go as far as to conceal much of what makes me who I
am from people, as some of my hobbies are rather expensive. That was the point
where making more meant that I became progressively less happy.

~~~
chii
why do you need to conceal your wealth, esp. if it was causing you
unhappiness?

~~~
908087
First and most importantly, because I want to be sure people aren't
dating/befriending me because of what I have. This is unfortunately something
I've already experienced a couple times.

Second, because my experiences with many other people in my wealth/income
bracket have driven me to try to avoid being anything like them or having
other people view me the way I view some of them.

------
lph
Alright, but let's revisit the polled people when they're 80 and see who's
happy... those who were able to save for retirement, or those who weren't.

"Are you happy?" is such a first-world-problems question. I'd settle for being
able to answer "yes" to "are your basic needs met?" for myself and my family
in perpetuity...

------
petercooper
_If_ I were single, it'd be no more than whatever lump sum would semi-
guarantee I could have $5000 turning up every month for the rest of my life
(so about $1.5m, I'd say). Since I'm married with kids, however, it might as
well be an infinite amount :-D

~~~
subrat_rout
Joking aside, I guess as a person with such amazing credentials, making $20k+
per month for you should be a cakewalk. By American standard it should be a
decent mount of money to raise family with kids. But if you want to travel the
world, eradicate poverty, leaving trust fund for kids then yes the number can
be stretched infinitely. As a married person with kids I would be very happy
making the amount of money you have mentioned passively.

------
icc97
> Respondents across the world were asked to rate their lives on a scale of
> 0-10, where 0 is the “worst possible life” and 10 is the “best possible
> life.”

I don't think the study properly correlates to 'happiness'. As the article
describes, it's more like 'satisfaction'. These are not the same [0]

[0]: [https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-distinction-between-
happin...](https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-distinction-between-happiness-
and-satisfaction)

------
trevyn
Yes, without limit, barring some sort of severe mental disorder.

1) Most people don’t know _how_ to buy more happiness past some point.

2) There’s also a point at which you’re ridiculously ecstatic 24/7, so you’re
really more interested in self-actualization than “happiness”.

I should clarify that I don’t yet know a good way to get _instant_ long-term
happiness, there is some work and time involved.

------
golergka
The region chart is almost meaningless: "Middle East/North Africa" lumps
together Sudan, Dubai, Syria and Israel as if these countries have much in
common in terms of economic development.

------
dsacco
tl;dr - A new study finds that $105,000 is the income level at which people no
longer feel happier earning more money. This updates the previous number,
$75,000, from a 2010 study.

Personally, I’m deeply skeptical of any psychology or sociology research that
relies on magic numbers like “105,000”. As far as I can tell, the study
doesn’t even account for cost of living.

~~~
dgacmu
It does, but only at a country scale, not within a country.

------
latchkey
Living in Ho Chi Minh City for the last 1.5 years (from San Francisco) and
seeing how dirt poor people are, yet smiling and living their lives, the
answer is 'not much'.

~~~
badpun
Isn't it a strong norm in a lot of East Asian countries to always present a
happy/polite front, regardless of how you feel inside?

------
blahfuk
Used to be 75K, now it's 105K. When will we finally admit that there is no
satiation point, and rich people generally live better lives?

~~~
leetcrew
probably never. in a way, this broadly applicable quote applies: "It is
difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon
his not understanding it!"

80% of people in the US make less than $75k. the idea that people experience
diminishing returns on income is a strong argument in favor of redistribution,
and is a couple notches more sophisticated than just saying outright that rich
people don't deserve what they have. how many people are likely to seriously
interrogate the claim that they deserve more than they are paid and/or would
use it more efficiently?

------
CuriouslyC
In my experience you only need enough money not to have to think about money.
If you have simple tastes, that isn't necessarily a lot.

------
propelol
How does ones partner affect this? Does both need to earn the maximum, or earn
the double combined?

~~~
dgacmu
The numbers are reported as total income / sqrt(household size) (from the
supplementary material -- i.e., from the actual paper, since the main paper is
a relatively short letter).

------
vectorEQ
you 'need' money for your wants. so basically you don't need money, unless you
want things. there's plenty of people who are happy as can be, who have never
even heard of money :s

------
throw7
Happiness is what you give.

------
RikNieu
Just a little bit more.

------
habosa
Isn't the real number just more than the people next to you? Wealth is
completely relative.

You could feel rich in a poor area with your brand new Camry and feel poor in
the Hamptons with your brand new Mercedes.

------
Stanleyc23
this study appears built off the assume that everyone has the same "satiation
point". that doesn't seem like a good assumption to me.

------
dingo_bat
> where 0 is the “worst possible life” and 10 is the “best possible life.”
> (This author would give himself an eight.)

I guess the author is really satisfied with his life. I'd give myself no more
than 5.

------
plg
This cutoff where more money doesn't bring any more happiness ... maybe it's
true, maybe it's not. Personally, I would like to do the experiment and then
find out.

~~~
mobilemidget
I think it’s more realistic saying under a certain amount, your financial
situation negatively affects ones’ happiness

------
sjapkee
Enough.

------
chapill
Trick question. People who waste their money never have enough money to be
happy.

