
Fitbit for Dogs - samsnelling
http://www.whistle.com/
======
slipperyp
I look at this and think "finally, someone's found a way to capitalize on the
disposable income of people whose homes are already full of exercise bikes
being used as coat hangers and whose wrists are nearly ready to collapse under
the weight of their fitbits, pedometers, and GPSes."

Here's the secret to health and exercise: you have to want to do it. Another
$100 device to tell you "you're still not doing the thing you said you want to
do but that you're not making time for" if it's not something you want to do.
I run and love to do it. Here's how I know I'm different from other people
this way: when I started running a lot (about 6 years ago) I would ask friends
if they wanted to go for a run and they would say "no." I wanted to get fit,
but I also wanted to run. I know people who ask "how can I run more?" and I
ask "well, do you enjoy running?" and usually they say they don't. I don't
tell them they need to buy different shoes or gadgets to try to coerce them
into doing it, I suggest they look at other kinds of activities that will
fulfill them and try to incorporate that into their life.

I believe too many people confuse fitness with the _goal_ of exercise.
Happiness should be the goal. It's fair (and probably right) to say fitness
will bring happiness, but it's important to keep those in perspective and
realize that if exercise (a means to fitness) isn't bringing happiness, then
maybe the exercise should change.

Lastly - I have a small ax to grind over people getting pets who aren't
prepared to give the pets the attention they need to be happy. Pets need a lot
of attention and activity - they express very clearly when they aren't getting
enough if you pay attention. And you can calibrate the type of dog that might
suit your lifestyle before you get one.

Sorry to rant over problems with fitness and pet ownership that I feel that a
product like this brings up - the product itself may be totally fine and I'll
probably get downvoted for saying some of this. Clearly there's somewhat of a
need for a product like this.

~~~
IanDrake
>I have a small ax to grind over people getting pets who aren't prepared to
give the pets the attention they need to be happy.

While I generally agree, how do you reconcile this with the thousands of dogs
euthanized every day in kill shelters because no one will take them?

~~~
yannyu
I love dogs, I think it's terrible that we have so many in shelters and so
many being euthanized. I wish we could provide happy homes for all of them.

That being said, I would rather euthanize a dog than put it in a home or half-
a-home where it isn't cared for in the way it should be. I would rather it not
suffer at all, than for it to be ignored, not loved, or not looked after.

------
hawkharris
Honestly, I think this will benefit the owners as much as the dogs.

My dog has tons of energy and potential to exercise, but usually the problem
is that I don't have the energy or time to take him outside.

I suspect that a major benefit of this product will be that it transforms
owners' lifestyles, encouraging them to be more active and take breaks from
being inside and/or online when necessary.

~~~
reeses
Doggie day care. It's the best thing you can do for them.

Yes, it's yuppie, but as with hiring housekeepers, it makes so many 'problems'
go away.

My dogs love going to play with other dogs, toys, pools, fountains, and
trained handlers, and they love coming home to play and run. They get to
socialize and I still get a lot of quality time with them.

------
pdeuchler
If you are a non-attentive, dis-interested pet owner you probably don't care
enough to buy this. If you are attentive and interested in your pet this
device tells you nothing new.

Fitbit works because you can correlate the data to your personal well being.
Unless this device magically discerns the dog's well being I don't see how it
provides any actionable statistics.

~~~
danielpal
Disagree 100%. Just pre-ordered one. I am a very attentive and interested dog
owner.

Here's what I'll get:

1\. I pay a dog walker to exercise my dog every-day for 1 hour. I want to make
sure he is actively walking and not just sitting around the park.

2\. Dog Sleep: I want to keep a healthy sleep vs activity percentage.

I think this is great. I love this trend of constantly tracking vs going to
the vet every 6 months to find out whats wrong.

~~~
pdeuchler
Do you not trust your dog walker? That would be a problem this device cannot
fix. I can tell the minute I get home if my dogs got a good walk or not.

I'm also interested in how you plan on acting upon this new knowledge about
your dog's sleeping habits.

~~~
kmfrk
I think it's pretty clear that there's a startup opportunity here.

"Uber for dogs".

DAE ...?

EDIT: FFS, I hate this world:
<http://www.prweb.com/releases/2013/4/prweb10677391.htm>.

------
ErikAugust
"It's an Airbnb for dogs."

[http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/02/04/airbnb-for-dogs-
rov...](http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/02/04/airbnb-for-dogs-rover-com-
raises-7m-led-by-the-foundry-group-rolls-out-animoto-powered-video-service/)

"It's a Uber for dogs."
<http://www.prweb.com/releases/2013/4/prweb10677391.htm>

~~~
greghinch
Never underestimate the seemingly ludicrous amounts of money people are
willing to shell out for their dogs (and other pets).

~~~
hayksaakian
inb4 pets.com

~~~
greghinch
Ha, it's a fair point, but the failure of pets.com had little to do with the
fact that it was a site selling pet-related goods and more to do with poor
investment choices, bad management, and unsustainable pricing.

------
joeblau
The product looks amazing. Congrats to Ben, Steven, Nate, Kevin and the rest
of the team working on this. Great job.

~~~
eclipxe
And Brad!

~~~
alabut
And Krista!

------
tibbon
I attached my Fitbit to our kitten a while ago. Worked pretty well and the
data was interesting. Also, now my Fitbit has kitten teeth marks from her
finding it something fun to chew on.

------
callmeed
If _"monitoring your dog's daily activity"_ isn't a first world problem, I
don't know what is.

That being said, I would buy a similar/simpler device for my cat–not because I
give a damn if my cat how many steps it takes but because I want to know where
it goes all day (on a map).

~~~
jmatthis
And on another day: What about a version for tracking children? I have to say
that I find this somewhat spooky.

~~~
callmeed
I think that already exists–at least for driving and driving + texting [1].
I'm actually okay with it for those uses (I have a teen and 3 smaller kids).

I don't need to know where my teen is at all times but if I can reduce (a) her
chances of dying and (b) my car insurance bill, sweet.

[1] [http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/local/aaa-testing-device-
tra...](http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/local/aaa-testing-device-track-teen-
drivers/nW8H8/)

------
dfc
_"Whistle lets you know who's spending time with your dog while you're away,
be it family or friends."_

How the hell does it do that? Before I saw the founders comment here on HN I
thought this was an elaborate ruse because of this "feature."

~~~
pdeuchler
Seconded. I thought it was a joke at first, making fun of the "It's X, but for
dogs!" meme.

Definitely seems like this is solving a non-problem

------
swamp40
I follow activity monitors rather closely. The wifi connectivity is the most
unusual part of this design.

There's never been a nice, simple way to setup wifi from a small device
before.

The trick they are using here is to use the Bluetooth connection to setup the
wifi. It's not a bad approach (in fact, they like it so much they're trying to
patent it).

But TI recently came out with the CC3000, a wifi chip that can grab the setup
information on its own (well, with the help of a smartphone app).

This avoids the hassles of managing two different 2.4GHz wireless systems on a
small device.

I think that's where the future of wifi setup is heading.

~~~
cschneid
The fitbit aria scale had a clever way to set itself up. As far as I could
tell, it had my computer join a known network, and broadcast the SSID &
Password that my computer already knew off to the scale. So the scale gets put
in setup mode, and listens for that temp network.

At least that's what it appeared to be doing when I set it up....

------
simpsond
To me this looks like top notch execution of a silly idea.

~~~
etjossem
Quantified self wasn't enough. Behold ... the quantified dog!

------
sksksk
This is a great untapped market, people go crazy for pets and spend a hell of
a lot of money on them.

I think the pitch should be "turn your terrier into a tamagotchi"

~~~
ruswick
Indeed. People often succumb to irrationality when dealing with their pets,
and are certainly inclined towards purchasing superfluous things for them.
This is an excellent market from which these guys can probably extract a lot
of profit.

------
kurtfunai
Seems like a cool concept for owners that leave their dog at home during the
day. Could finally figure out what those rascals are up to.

Or if an uncommon spike of activity happens in the middle of the day, you may
want to check in at home.

~~~
uptown
"Could finally figure out what those rascals are up to."

I've checked with a webcam. Almost always sleeping.

~~~
sharkweek
We crate our lab mix during the work day -- he currently barks for about 2-3
minutes when we leave, chews on his toys (man he loves that kong full of
peanut butter), falls asleep, wakes up for a few minutes, chews on his toys
again, falls asleep; rinse and repeat.

I think we broke it down to like:

90% sleeping 5% chewing on stuff 5% sitting there doing nothing but awake

~~~
waffle_ss
Perhaps it's just because I grew up on a farm and our dogs roamed freely
during the day, but this sounds like a miserable life for a dog. Is this a
common thing for people to do?

~~~
sharkweek
Yes, very -- it's his den. He loves being in there and enters on his own will
as it's his safe place where he gets all the best toys as well as sleeps at
night. A good owner will NEVER use crate time as punishment, it's only
supposed to be used as a positive place. It's also important when they're
young to not associate it with you leaving, so you typically put them in a few
times randomly while you're home during their puppy months, and leave lots of
treats/fun toys for short period where the dog can still see you. Slowly
they'll learn that it's their own private and "fun" place.

It really prevents him from getting into too much trouble while we're away,
but eventually when he's less "puppy" (he's currently 9 months), we'll slowly
start letting him roam the house/yard for short periods while we're gone,
working our way up to a full work day.

Fear not though, when we're home he's with us, and he always gets about 1-2
hours of exercise as well as a trip to our local dog park daily.

------
rschmitty
Nifty, nice job! Does it work with horses?

I feel pretty in touch with my dogs since I work from home and provide their
exercise...but I could see my wife wanting to see how the horse is doing since
it is kept at stable and she can't make it out every day.

Also typically horse people are super rich (tho we are not) and already paying
lots and lots on horse care, might be good to explore.

Minor css bug for firefox/win <http://imgur.com/wT4nXYS>

------
acgourley
There is potential to save a ton of money in vet bills via early warning of
potential disease in pets[1]. Activity and food intake information is enough
for many. Adding some sort of food logging component could make it really
powerful. I also wonder if the USP for the product should shift to the savings
in vet bills or the extension of life.

[1] Obviously the response cannot be to go to the vet for each alert, but
instead to take some action at home.

~~~
dfc
_Adding some sort of food logging component could make it really powerful._

If you are not already aware of your dog's food intake there is already a big
problem and a pretty good chance that you are a disinterested owner. Dogs
should be fed a certain amount of food each day. The dog's food bowl is not an
all fido can eat buffet that is constantly refilled.

 _I also wonder if the USP for the product should shift to the savings in vet
bills or the extension of life._

It seems that before the USP shift you would need some actual research and
judging from the answer to "What research supports Whistle's approach?" there
is no research to support this proposition.

~~~
bargl
There are two schools of thought out there. And I think it boils down to your
specific dog. My dog _used_ to get enough of a workout that I could leave her
with a free feeding bowl. She was at a GREAT weight. Then she had a knee
injury and she started gaining weight. Since then I've switched to timed
feedings.

Also from their site... <http://www.whistle.com/support/>

"Whistle is supported by veterinary research around activity and behavior as a
measure of pet health from leading academic institutions such as the
University of California at Davis, North Carolina State University, and the
University of Pennsylvania. We work closely with the veterinary community to
bring new data to this research across a much broader population of dogs."

~~~
dfc
I have never heard a vet, breeder or trainer recommend free feeding a dog.

Also from their site? That is not an "also" that is what I was referring to.
You read that paragraph and concluded there must be research supporting this?
When I read that paragraph the first thing that I was _"where are the
citations?"_

~~~
bargl
Serious question, would you read the citations? I'd be curious to read them
too, and it is concerning that they don't have citations.

~~~
dfc
I would probably skim the citations to see if there was anything interesting
in them and or any insight into optimal use of the data. But mainly the big
thing with the citations is that the citations would back up the claim that
the product was supported by research. Right now its just ad copy...

~~~
bargl
Yeah citations would make this more reputable, and as it stands it's just a
claim. But I prefer to trust that they have done some studies on this topic.
I'll verify it later, but trust for now. Also, I can't imagine a vet saying
that this kind of data on a dog would be "bad" in any way. And it's usefulness
will be found through time and trials. Just as most studies are backed after
peer review and being open to the test of time.

------
malandrew
Give me a device that can tell when my dog is about to try to go to the
bathroom in the house and corrects that behavior automatically with a dog
whistle and you have yourself a winning product.

On top of that, just add features that trains the dog for you. Like automatic
"heel" commands or making sure the dog doesn't crawl onto the couch and leave
dog hair all over it while you are out of the house.

Use geofencing to make sure the dog can't wonder past a certain distance from
the house without hearing a dog whistle. It would be like a reprogrammable
electric fence without all the cost of burying wires in the yard and worrying
about the wire getting cut by accident and the dog running away. Add
geolocation so I can have a "Where is my dog?" feature, just like I can
already find my iPhone.

------
pstinnett
Be sure to implement an owner shaming feature: "Your dog has been more active
than you today!"

But in all seriousness this looks great. My wife and I both use Fitbit and
have joked about attaching it to our dog's collar to see how active he is.

------
rainhacker
What about the dogs privacy ?

~~~
efsavage
I'm not sure there is any animal less concerned with privacy than a dog :)

------
just_observing
"So you took the dogs for a long walk then, and didn't just stop at the pub?"

------
mckilljoy
This looks like the kind of product that will do well in San Francisco -- SF
is where the venn diagram of "dog owners" and "gadget owners" overlap.

~~~
ruswick
Also, most of the cohort of SF residents fit into the most important category,
"people with more money that they know what to do with."

------
luisivan
Firstly I thought it was a parody, then I moved to the Company page and
figured out it isn't. Well, maybe there is a market for this after all.

~~~
adestefan
I still can't tell if it's really good satire or actually real. I'm waiting
for Jonathan Swift to show up at any moment.

------
simonbarker87
If the app allowed me to asses my dogs mood then this would be useful. I have
an extremely energetic West Highland Terrier and there is a fine balance
between enough exercise to tire him out and too much to turn him in to a
grumpy, slightly snappy, stroppy teenager. We think the sweet spot is
somewhere between 45 mins and 1.5 hours of walking per day - which is quite a
big window

~~~
samsnelling
That's crazy I have a Westie also, and you are right on point with trying to
find the right balance.

The reason I posted this was that I love the concept of tracking the amount
exercise "Toodles" is getting to see how it affects her mood. The device looks
like it's on a big dog, and I'm wondering how it will look on a small/medium
size dog as well.

~~~
simonbarker87
Agreed, I guess there is a minimum size that they could go down to but if it
was ok I would buy one.

I think people forget how much a dog's mood is affected by their walking time
- playing is all well and good but there is something primal for a dog about
walking, especially walking with intent/purpose.

I think with big dogs it's fine to just exhaust them and they'll loll about
and doze but with a small dog if you push it too far you just get a grumpy
git.

------
roin
A friend from MIT is doing something similar with a great team.

<http://www.fitbark.com/>

------
untog
New: you've always thought of your dog as an extension of yourself, now it can
be an extension of your quantified self!

I'm sure this has a market, but taking your dog for a walk and getting regular
check-ups at the vet seems to work relatively well for most situations.

------
weisser
Design looks fairly similar to Misfit Wearables
(<http://misfitwearables.com/>). Not quite as sleek but I don't expect the
user to complain.

------
charlesju
I just pre-ordered! What a great idea! My whole business life revolves around
charts and graphs. I can't wait to apply the same level of deep analysis to
helping my pet stay healthy and happy!

------
davidbrent
I can't put my finger on it, but this app makes me very sad.

------
espadagroup
Not sure this service lives up to such an awesome domain :/

------
wilhil
I want one for me! :)

------
needacig
But what about the cats?! Cats care about fitness just as much as dogs do.
When can I order a feline version?

------
Urgo
Was going to buy one until I saw "android coming soon"

Build android first, or at the same time, or no thanks.

------
tapatio
Thinking about getting one of these for my GF to make sure she gets enough
daily exercise.

------
boca
Instead of spending time setting goals, monitoring progress and charts,
worrying about unmet goals, and god knows what else why not just spend that
additional time with the poor dog. If you do that, I am pretty sure that you
will be able to gauge your dog's health better than this. Don't mean to offend
anyone just my 2 cents.

~~~
GuiA
False dichotomy, one does not preclude the other.

You can very well spend time with your dog, and still enjoy the metrics that
this thing will give you.

------
danielhonigman
This is just cruel. Just take your dog(s) for a run once or twice a day.

------
victoknight
Why no GPS integration? Would it affect the battery life to poorly?

~~~
joeblau
I have a buddy that works at Garmin and from what I understand, GPS receivers
are a huge battery drain and they are also pretty big/heavy in relation to
other sensors. If you look at GPS running watches for instance, even the small
ones are pretty beefy and they only last up to 8 hours while active.

~~~
swamp40
Well, the way it would work (and I'm sure how the TAGG does it) would be to
leave the GPS and cellular modem powered down most of the time.

But say once every 30 minutes, they would all power up, grab the GPS data,
fire off an SMS message with the coordinates, then power back down again.

It's not perfect, but it's a good compromise.

------
SkittlesNTwix
I'm really shocked that whistle.com was available or attainable.

~~~
ry0ohki
They raised $6 million already.

------
chenster
I wonder how dog would think about it?

~~~
sharkweek
Guaranteeing my labrador would find a way to get it off and eat it... total
punk, that one

------
dongoz
finally! this has been a major pain point for me in the past

------
sutro
Will this tell me how many times per hour my dog licks his balls?

------
stevehawk
that is one expensive ass pedometer.

