
Google Jibe: Better carrier messaging for everyone - hswolff
http://jibe.google.com/
======
eximius
Anybody have a good source on what the heck RCS is? I've never heard of it
until now. I will google also, but I bet someone knows of an introduction
they'd recommend.

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unsignedint
Rich Communication Services
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services)

~~~
easytiger
That has no details of the technicalities

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Veratyr
Wow, RCS seems pretty bad from a privacy standpoint.

The spec is available on the GSMA website [0]. The relevant section is
2.13.1.3 of "Rich Communication Suite 6.0 Advanced Communications Services and
Client Specification Version 7.0-final draft" available in the specification
ZIP.

TL;DR: Encryption seems to be included but for voice and video only. They have
_deliberately_ compromised messaging security to be vulnerable to
interception.

"SRTP [RFC3711] may be used to provide per message authentication, integrity
protection and encryption for both RTP and RTCP streams involved in real-time
video and voice sessions."

[...]

"[3GPP TS 33.328] defines two modes of operation for SDES/SRTP: e2ae (end-to-
access edge) mode and e2e (end-to-end) mode."

"[...] the RCS client may try e2e [...]"

And:

<Basic description of the messaging protocol>

"When using MSRPoTLS, and with the following two objectives __allow compliance
with legal interception procedures __, the TLS authentication shall be based
on self-signed certificates and the MSRP encrypted connection shall be
terminated in an element of the Service Provider network providing service to
that UE. Mutual authentication shall be applied as defined in [RFC4572]. "

[0] [http://www.gsma.com/network2020/specs-and-product-
docs/](http://www.gsma.com/network2020/specs-and-product-docs/)

~~~
maxerickson
There are a bunch of customers that are countries that have a tight hold on
their telecom industry. Which I don't mean to offer as a justification, just
as an observation that making allowances for "compliance with legal
interception procedures" is not anything new for that industry.

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dheera
Ick. I wish we could kill SMS/Whatsapp/Wechat/LINE already and just do
everything over e-mail or some other cross-platform, multi-login protocol.

I hate being tied up to one device to message people. I change devices on the
order of minutes, move over the course of a day between a few locations that
all have devices I own, and don't regularly carry or look at my cell phone if
I am already staring at something bigger (e.g. tablet/laptop/desktop/TV).

I enjoy e-mail/FB/skype/et al.'s ability to freely switch devices, switch OSes
and continue your conversations extremely smoothly without any barriers. I
want information to move with _me_ , not with a silly phone.

~~~
stann
Have you tried Telegram?

~~~
dheera
Hadn't heard about it. Just checked it out, and it looks interesting.
Unfortunately, due to network effects and my social circle, 99% of the people
I know pretty much only use either Wechat, Facebook, or e-mail, but I look
forward to seeing something disrupt this space with something better, more
functional, cross-platform, and multi-login.

It would be killer if Telegram could interoperate with at least 1 or 2 of the
other services, which would allow it to ramp up adoption. Unfortunately Wechat
is very insistent about not allowing 3rd-party applications to use their
messaging protocol, and Facebook seems to have closed their XMPP interface as
well. I would guess Whatsapp probably has the same attitude.

In this respect I really, really miss the days of Pidgin and those other
similar applications which used to be able to put MSN/ICQ/AIM/QQ/Yahoo/Zephyr
all on one interface. That seems impossible with the state of mobile apps now.

~~~
hanniabu
You can try what my friend did, he kept spamming our old whatsapp chat with
invitations to telegram until we all switched. A few of us, me included, we
very reluctant to switch and held out for a while saying that whatsapp is
great. Once I downloaded telegram and gave it the time of day though, I turned
to love it in the course of a day and now I can't even understand how anybody
uses whatsapp anymore. I could go on and list all the reasons why it's better,
but I think it's simpler just to say that it's better on every front and
feature(except no wifi calling, yet), and even has more features to offer than
whatsapp.

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randomname2
My sympathy goes out to the Google engineers who had to write a new wiretap
friendly texting app. I hope the snacks & massages are worth it.

[https://twitter.com/csoghoian/status/701854843057610752](https://twitter.com/csoghoian/status/701854843057610752)

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habosa
As a long-time SMS user, getting widespread RCS support is the biggest future
mobile phone innovation I am looking forward to.

SMS is wonderful because you can send a message to any mobile phone user
regardless of their nationality, operating system, hardware, carrier, etc.
However it has a few major flaws: cost, speed, lack of group messaging,
limited multimedia support.

The shortcomings of SMS have fueled the rise of IP messenger apps like
WhatsApp, Line, WeChat, Hangouts, and iMessage. These all have the features we
want, but their major flaw are arguably even more severe: total lock-in and
lack of interoperability. Once you have a majority of your communication
networks on one of those protocols, you become dependent on a single for-
profit company for your communication. Look at what happens to iOS users
trying to switch to Android: iMessage blocks their communication for months
afterward.

RCS will give us all the benefits of iMessage or WhatsApp but without being
locked in to a single company's network or having to get all of your
friends/family to adopt one or the other.

~~~
trebor
Here's irony for you: basic text messaging is almost free to the carriers,
because it actually happens on the cellular protocol's control channel. [1]
Your phone maintains that connection persistently (I think), so fitting SMS
messages into idle time makes it virtually free. The SMS cost is just a profit
center for carriers, but this explanation also accounts for the speed of
delivery, etc.

> Look at what happens to iOS users trying to switch to Android: iMessage
> blocks their communication for months afterward.

It used to, but Apple built a "deregister my number" page that'll be able to
unlock that within a matter of minutes.

[1]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Message_Service#Initial_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Message_Service#Initial_concept)

~~~
habosa
1 - yes that is a major issue with SMS and why SMS use is in such sharp
decline. I doubt the carriers will make the mistake of pricing RCS like SMS or
they'll never get to break into messaging again.

2 - the iMessage to Android experience is still broken in many other ways. For
instance if you were in any long-running group messages that were iMessages,
your messages will be silently dropped until the thread is re-created
explicitly.

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ine3432n4e23n4
2 - That sounds 100% expected. There is no such thing as a group message
between iMessage and SMS/MMS. That is readily apparent the moment someone adds
a non-iMessage identifier to a new group message. You're asking that the group
iMessage experience degrade because _you_ left. That sounds selfish to me.

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smonff
I asked for privacy and decentralization, Google gave "clouded" SMS.

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mmanfrin
Given the clusterfuck between Hangouts and Messenger, and the painful process
of getting Google Fi to work with shortcodes, I have little confidence in
Google getting texting right. I want to be proved wrong, but I am not liking
their track record here.

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AndrewDucker
It's interesting that carrier messaging continues to be upgraded, and that
open protocols for chat aren't entirely dead.

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ChrisArchitect
all of the messaging apps WhatsApp, LINE, WeChat etc are terrible in that they
owe a lot of their rise due to users lack of comprehension of sms vs IP and
carrier lockin etc etc.

However - google and messaging is just a messy, and they're pushing this now?
How about sort out your Messenger and Hangouts mess and get all of that
consolidated

~~~
esolyt
More likely, they owe their rise to lack of an account creation process (no
username and password).

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arrty88
Finally, disruption of the basic SMS system for all users on the protocol /
carrier level.

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Nagyman
Is this why Hangouts recently started advertising the Google Messaging app
instead of the opposite? For the longest time, I was using Messaging but
Google kept pushing me to Hangouts.

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ungzd
Another version of MMS so carriers can charge per message and organize paid
scam services with ringtones and "RCS dating chats"? They're living in 2001.

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bobisme
`font-weight: 100` and `color: #757575` for body text? It's barely readable on
a retina display. It's an eyesore on my PC.

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lgleason
Of note: Project FI has been plagued with short SMS issues for the past year.
Some are reporting that this has been fixed, but does concern me if Google is
going to get into this space.

I'm saying this as someone who is a Android advocate and developer.

~~~
ddispaltro
It's fixed for me but I definitely had the issue when I was onboarded. It's
because I came from T-Mobile, so they had to "reset" the account and then
everything was good to go.

~~~
grouma
I had the exact same experience coming from T-Mobile as well. No issues after
the reset and enjoying the service so far, especially when I travel
internationally.

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ignoramous
This is a clear move against WhatsApp? With Jibe, Google is going for the
kill, 'cause WhatsApp just went life-time free for everyone with an eye on
earning revenue from their enterprise APIs.

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gonvaled
How does this relate / compete with Whatsapp?

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zellyn
One big question: will carriers still charge exorbitant per-message fees?

And one huge question: will iOS support RCS?

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bsharitt
Are there still companies that still charge per message fees?

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gurrone
Depending on the contract they do. Often enough it's the GSM modem paging
someone for alarms that holds a SIM with some old corporate contract that has
no flatrate. And you'd violate the contract if you exchange it for some
private contract SIM with all inclusive SMS.

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carapace
Light grey, thin, sans-serif body text, O how I hate you.

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Fundlab
So basically this will only install on android. No?

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OJFord
No. Think SMS, not Messages app.

