
Jay Leno’s 3D Printer Makes Old Car Parts - staunch
http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/jay_leno_garage/4320759.html
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jacquesm
That's a misleading title if there ever was one, the output from the 3D
printer is used to make molds, not car parts.

It's a tool in the chain, not a one-step scan-print have a usable car part
process.

They could have sent out the original to make a mold of or they could have
made a precise casting of it and then reversed that for a positive.

This looks like a great excuse to use a cool tool. Any competent machinist
could turn out that nut in 1/2 the time it would take to scan/print it. And if
you have access to a CNC rig (and most machine shops have 4 or 5 axis
workcenters) you could make as many of them as you wanted once you had the
shape programmed.

For a one-off a mold is a crazy process anyway, the only reason molds are used
is if it is impossible to machine something (rarely) or to save cost in higher
volumes (the most common case).

The reason "People say, “Why not just give the part to your machinist to
make?” Well, if the machinist makes it wrong, you still have to pay for it."
is absolute nuts, if you give a machinist (a competent one) a part to
duplicate you'll be hard pressed to tell it from the original if you haven't
marked it in some way.

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pyropenguin
From the article

 _My EcoJet supercar needed air-conditioning ducts. We used plastic parts we
designed, right out of the 3D copier. We didn’t have to make these scoops out
of aluminum, plastic is what they use in a real car._

Yes the title doesn't mention that molds are made as well but I would say the
title is correct.

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jacquesm
If you make ducts by milling you're doing something terribly wrong or you are
in the aerospace business.

Leno has this thing about bashing 'machinists', I've heard him rant about that
before.

At the end of the day a machinist can only make what you spec, if you spec it
wrong you end up paying and you'll have to do it again. Measure twice, cut
once.

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jonknee
> If you make ducts by milling you're doing something terribly wrong or you
> are in the aerospace business.

To be fair, the car he made the duct for did have a jet engine :).

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jacquesm
hehe, good point :)

Aerospace CNC work is amazing stuff, it's not rare to see a block of aluminum
be reduced to less than 5% of its starting weight as a finished part, the rest
is scrap.

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DannoHung
They don't recycle?

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jacquesm
Yes, absolutely they do. But it's not as straightforward as it should be
because the aluminum swarf is contaminated with cutting oils and other nasty
materials.

All the scrap gets recycled, a typical price for a pound of 'dirty' scrap is
$0.09. Contrast that with $.70 for a pound for stock (and more expensive if it
is a special grade or shape).

~~~
billswift
I'm curious where you got that scrap price. The last time I sold aluminum
scrap (about a decade ago) they were paying $0.24 a pound for dirty scrap.

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radu_floricica
A couple of comments. First, I wonder how the copyright will shape up for this
kind of things. When they become ubiquitous, will a Mercedes still be a
Mercedes part if it's downloaded? And will you have to pay a licencing fee to
use it? Will we see a ground-up reimplemented Open-Mercedes?

Before you think this is science fiction, think about the current market in
spare parts. Far too often you have to pay 100+ for a piece of plastic or
metal of a certain shape. The moment the price for such parts gets under
100-200, you will actually be able to re-build your car radiator in the
service cheaper then ordering it from the producer. Customized and upgraded
too, if you want it.

Which will cut into a huge source of income for producers - and open up one
for enterprising repair shops. Both industries who care about money and don't
shy to show it. It will be interesting.

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codyrobbins
Yeah, I was wondering the exact same thing about copyright. Given the current
state of copyright law, it seems like it might be of dubious legality to take
a carefully engineered and manufactured part and duplicate it at the press of
a button. In much the same way as the advent of digital distribution of music
(and video, books, etc.) made the music industry crack down on file sharing,
are we going to see producers of engineered products attempt to shut down
technology such as this when it becomes more widely available and cheap?

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lurkinggrue
Print Crime: <http://craphound.com/?p=573>

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jacquesm
thank you...

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drcode
It would be awesome to be super rich like that and be able to say "oh yeah, I
make car parts directly from my 3D printer as a hobby" when you really mean "I
tell my full-time 3D modelling team that works on my cars what parts I want
made as a hobby."

(At least that's what I assume is the truth- I didn't get the impression his
hands actually ever touch a computer, cleaning up errant polygons from a 3D
scan :-)

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asdlfj2sd33
I don't know, he seems like a pretty big old car/machine geek and isn't the
fun of that hobby getting your hands dirty.

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thaumaturgy
Yes, he is.

My dad has been an antique (primarily 1920's and earlier, authentic) car geek
for a long time, and he and my mom bumped into Jay Leno at a car meet years
ago.

While there, he was just one of the guys, just there for the cars, and he
definitely knows his stuff.

I think of him as a car guy who got a job as a late-night host so that he
could pay for his true love.

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TrevorJ
Once trickle down makes these more cost-effective and once they can create
things in metals as well as plastics, we are really going to start seeing some
amazing changes in the way we operate as a society.

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stcredzero
IKEA will have to adapt or be demolished. They could actually leverage this
kind of tech.

I can picture all sorts of flat-pack furniture made by specialized machines to
automatically rout and drill holes, with specialized parts made by 3D
printers.

The whole back catalog would always be available. Designs are already
modularized and extendable. I could also picture DIY one of a kind "custom
closet" kits designed on a computer, with the parts bagged for you, and custom
directions printed just for you.

~~~
jacquesm
3D printing vs injection moulding are 10000:1 cost wise right now, in the
future this will come down but I doubt there will ever be parity.

The reason companies like IKEA standardize connectors, handles and all kinds
of other bits and pieces is to maximize the use of these hard to design parts.
Mold making is an art and molds are expensive, even for relatively simple
parts. But once you have a mold the parts become absolutely dirt cheap.

Specialized woodworking machines exist, such as CNC rigs to create roof
trusses straight from a customized CAD package.

One other nasty little gotcha about 'printed' 3d objects is that they are
really 2 1/2 D printed objects, in other words the design is deposited layer
by layer, this usually means that in at least one direct (the deposition
direction) the material is not very strong.

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sokoloff
Slightly off the topic of the original article, but imagine an Ikea store with
a "print behind the counter" making semi-custom furniture by CNC
milling/routing the MDF/OSB components and using existing tech to make the
camlocks, screws, pins, etc.

That doesn't require any new tech at all, just for the capital equipment to
become cheap enough (or the utilization high enough) to justify doing the
manufacture at the store instead of at a centralized plant.

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jacquesm
It wouldn't need that much $ at all, a fair sized CNC rig that could do this
would run you about $20,000 including software and tooling. I built my own
once (for plasmacutting sheetmetal) for about 2/3 of that, and that's already
quite a while ago, I'd expect it to be cheaper today.

This is actually a really good idea you've got there, you should do something
with that!

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ShabbyDoo
I know little about materials science, but I know that metal grades vary
significantly in performance (and cost). Instead of saying, "Any part can be
made via a 3d printer," shouldn't it be said that, "Something in the same
shape and size of any part can be made using such a printer."? It's not like
we can print out a new camshaft and drive the car for 5K miles using it,
right?

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a-priori
As other people have said, he's mostly using this printer to print molds of
the parts. These molds are then used cast the parts out of whatever grade of
metal is up to the task.

~~~
ShabbyDoo
Having once cast an aluminum cornbread pan in high school shop class, I can
understand how using such a printer for mold making could be extremely useful.
And, I can see how it could have niche uses in various industries. But, the
people saying that the 3d printer will change the world as we know it (or
whatever other grand predictions) haven't explained to me how it will be
anything more than a great proto-typing/mold-making tool for casting/machining
operations or customers of those businesses. Am I missing something?

~~~
jacquesm
That all depends on the speed of the machine, the price of the 'input'
material and the versatility with which you can apply it (and the cost of the
energy required to run it).

If it is done 'right' (price point at or below casting, fast to the point
where making a complex part would take a couple of minutes at the most and
create any solid shape, even multiple parts in one go assembled and ready to
go) then it would change the world as we know it in ways that I can only
describe as science fiction.

Drive the price down even further (to say below what it costs to mass produce
castings) and you're looking at something where even the imagination will
fail.

Make it precise enough that you can create nano machinery and you get yet
another level of technology that gets unlocked. It's hard to predict what any
of that would be like, but I can see all kinds of good and bad stuff
happening.

Suddenly the blueprint _is_ the machine, if you can think of it you can make
it.

Right now the barrier to entry to manufacturing is comparable to lets say big
iron computing in the 70's.

Think of this thing as the PC of manufacturing, suddenly everybody can quickly
and easily make just about anything.

Mold making is an art and terribly expensive, so for now prototyping is
handwork or at best one-off CNC runs. To replace that by a process that would
cost a very small fraction would upset quite a few applecarts.

If it stays slow and expensive then it will be a niche technology, but the
speed at which the prices are coming down and process speed goes up is very
impressive.

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10ren
"Crescent wrench": <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjustable_spanner>

I can see how "soluble supports" enable the moving parts to be printed - but
how can a scanner _see_ which parts are connected/unconnected, when viewing
from one direction? How could a scanner see that an axle is a freely moving
rod snug within a cylinder, when that is hidden? An extreme eg: put the part
inside a blackbox, and scan the box.

This looks impossible to me (that you'd need to touch up the model manually),
but the article said that's just what "old school" guys think...

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8plot
Amazing technology when you think about it. Sure it's clunky now, and material
is limited and expensive, but it wont be long before we can print copies of
the machine itself.

<http://reprap.org/bin/view/Main/WebHome>

It's really going to be fun watching physical product manufactures complain
when we start printing pirated copies of our favorite toys.

~~~
icefox
I collect old Transformer toys and already I have begun to see some 3rd
parties sell off "unpainted" transformers. I would not be surprised if in 10
years it would be very common for their to be printed addons and or all new
toys.

~~~
BrentRitterbeck
There would be a huge market for things like this. My father collects multiple
copies of war toys (things ranging from Micro Machines all the way up to
planes with three feet wingspans). He's said that good ones are hard to come
by. With a tool like this, he'd probably churn out several copies and spend
considerable time detailing each one.

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asdlfj2sd33
This is good stuff, but the important part is just briefly mentioned: It's the
Fadal CNC machine. The other machines scan and build plastic prototypes or
occasionally functional parts if plastic is sufficiently tough for the job.

But once the plastic prototypes are tested and proven, the Fadal CNC machine
then makes them out of metal. I would still like to know what kind of metals
the Fadal can machine?

And then there's the bet that this technology would continue to get cheaper.
This is certainly true of semiconductors and software but will it be true for
this, for CNC machines?

And lastly, manufacturing "works" on a large scale. You buy raw materials in
bulk, manufacture and then sell the now transformed materials in small units.
Buy in bulk, sell in small is where the profit is made.

But this is very long tail stuff. No one will need a large volume of a special
custom widget.

Would individuals buy this tech to use over a life time, like a good expensive
tool box? Or would a small business buy this and then offer to ship custom
parts in a small area where shipping is cheap?

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mmphosis
But, can Jay Leno's 3D Printer Make Jay Leno's 3D Printer?

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runinit
I dream of the day where I could potentially have my own audio hardware
startup for under a couple grand. Being able to print custom parts would make
it so much more viable to make boutique audio equipment, instruments, etc.

~~~
BrentRitterbeck
Are you familiar with the work being done at Stanford on music? I saw a
special on TV (I think it was on Nova Science Now) about the group. They are
doing some interesting things in terms of making new instruments out of things
they find sitting around. They also have their own "computer" symphony. Here's
a link: <http://ccrma.stanford.edu/overview/Overview.html>

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sh1mmer
Slightly off-topic, but, was I the only person slightly disturbed about the
rant about the 3D printers being American made machines?

Maybe it's because I'm British (living in SF) but I still find that kind of
patriotism smacks more of jingoism. I'm all for working with local craftsmen
and supporting local business, I think that's great, but I still don't get how
this kind of transparent nationalism is seen as a good thing in the US.

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buugs
I would much rather go with the machinist I've met quite a few veteran
machinists and they are very good at what they do, especially the ones who
have learned to use cnc in conjunction with traditional work.

Leno however probably has enough money that he employs multiple people who
know very much about engines and cars that they are the ones worrying about
the molds.

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ronnyguru
3D Scanners typically cost 40-50K - but this one is under 3K !!?

Looks like they've got quite a big of use cases on their website.
www.nextengine.com

People scanning in faces, rocks for research. It's not just for mechanical
parts.

~~~
padmapper
And for the printing side: <http://www.makerbot.com/>

They sell kits to make your own, for under $1000. I saw one in action at a
tech showcase, it was pretty awesome.

~~~
RK
What is the relationship between Makerbot and RepRap?

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ErikDB
Zach Smith, one of the founders/makers is in both projects. Also, we (I'm
RepRap developer) collaborate on designs to print and reuse each others
technologies and ideas. Because both designs are completely open source, the
can reuse whatever is practical and also differentiate themselves to be used
in different 'market segments'. RepRap is meant to be more adjustable and
modular, and meant to be able to replicate most of its own parts. The Makerbot
doesn't have this requirement and can mostly be made on a laser cutter.
Although several parts of the Makerbots are printed on Makerbots and/or
RepRaps.

Erik de Bruijn <http://blog.erikdebruijn.nl/categories/7-RepRap>

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amichail
As we all know, the killer app for 3d printers is twisty puzzles.

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dunk010
wow, I'd not seen a movie of this before. Now I really see how revolutionary
the technology is!

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onreact-com
You don't need to be Jay Leno to use a 3d printer. Personal 3d printers start
at below 15k $ these days.

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jonknee
I didn't know they could make assembled parts like that. Very interesting.

