
“Tesla will now move its HQ and future programs to Texas/Nevada immediately” - edward
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259162367285317633
======
downerending
This is being couched as a spat over the lockdown versus Tesla production, but
I wonder if it's not part of a larger picture, which is that the Bay Area has
become a harder and harder place to do business, because of economic
realities.

It'd be nice to see technical work spread away from the hotspots and across
America. Concentrating it in a few places makes for a surprisingly miserable
existence.

~~~
azinman2
It also enables free moving of talent between companies that only further
allows great companies to be built. It’s very hard to build a high-tech
company in Tulsa, say, if the total numbers of available superstars are low.

Tesla building HQ in Silicon Valley enabled it to get types of people he never
would have otherwise. Few are leaving Google to go to GM, for example.

~~~
xiphias2
A lot of those superstars would love to get out of California if they would
get the same salary in absolute amount. Usually companies make the mistake of
,,adjusting for cost of living'', and then of course they will find most
talent in the most expensive cities.

~~~
stu2b50
I disagree, I think people underestimate the social cost of uprooting your
life, leaving all of your friends and families, and moving into an area that
often has beliefs counter to your own

There's already examples. Epic will pay you top tech level salaries in the
middle of nowhere, where you can live like a king. Superstars seem to be
staying put.

~~~
hckr_news
Epic will also make you work with proprietary older tools and languages that
leave you lacking if you were to leave in search of another job. Ever heard of
MUMPS?

~~~
goda90
Epic does use newer stuff now too, btw. .NET for instance.

------
dkdk8283
I agree with Elon here, many California policies are over the top and it seems
more laws, taxes, and other restrictions are constantly popping up.

The bay area has always been a hotspot for radical activism.

I lived in CA for awhile and couldn’t take it, so I left.

~~~
adrr
California regulation and taxes promotes innovation. Electric car incentives
helped Tesla. Ban on non-competes allows employees to start competing
businesses. Taxes allow the funding of the best higher education system in the
nation.

~~~
omgwtfbyobbq
To be fair, California doesn't have the highest tax burden in the nation,
although it is up there. It also taxes consumption more than assets, which I'm
a fan of.

[https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-
bur...](https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-
burden/20494/)

~~~
npunt
Looks like there's a decent overlap between state tax burden and whether
they're 'donor' states in terms of federal dollars. Those that have higher tax
burden tend to be sending more $ to the federal government than they receive
back. CA historically has been this way, though recently it is about
breakeven.

[https://worldpopulationreview.com/states/donor-
states/](https://worldpopulationreview.com/states/donor-states/)

------
snowwrestler
Musk has said repeatedly that the reason he’s doing Tesla is to help move the
country off fossil fuels for transportation, because of global warming.

Well, no state has been stronger on this issue than California, who sets fuel
efficiency goals that are the most stringent. The same cannot be said of Texas
and Nevada; if anything the opposite is true. These are states where people
take pride in driving big gas guzzling trucks and the government supports them
in that.

Everyone loves to complain about how restrictive CA is, but what about when
the substance lines up with what one supposedly believes? Why would Musk want
Tesla to support Texas over CA? That seems backward unless his goal is the
success of Tesla as a business, rather than progress against global warming.

~~~
vageli
> Well, no state has been stronger on this issue than California, who sets
> fuel efficiency goals that are the most stringent. The same cannot be said
> of Texas and Nevada; if anything the opposite is true. These are states
> where people take pride in driving big gas guzzling trucks and the
> government supports them in that.

How is this anything but a non-sequitor? CA law only covers cars sold in the
state, not produced. How does moving to a state that may be more favorable to
the business for other reasons (tax purposes, operating during the pandemic,
etc) change anything in that regard?

~~~
alpha_squared
California often sets standards that get adopted elsewhere/nationally not
because it's some magical state but because of the sheer size of its economy.
It used to be quite common that auto manufacturers would build a CA-approved
version for their vehicles until it became too costly to maintain two
versions. Some manufacturers still do this for vehicles that have a higher
portion of their sales outside CA (mostly large trucks). Regardless of whether
or not you approve, CA definitely sets the nation standard on fuel efficiency
for general consumer vehicles.

That said, if you're going to build a company in the American capitalism model
where you inevitably interface with different layers of government, you
probably would want to do it where those governments align best with your
industry. If your goal is to build a car, MI is probably your best bet. If
your goal is to solve fuel efficiency or an environmental problem, CA is one
of the better places to be in; though maybe not the best. If your goal is to
get people back to work ASAP, you'd want to go to a state with few(er) worker
protections.

I think it's clear where Musk's motivations lie, but I'm sure others are
unconvinced.

~~~
ralph84
> If your goal is to get people back to work ASAP, you'd want to go to a state
> with few(er) worker protections.

Ha ha. Yes it's due to "worker protections" that workers at Amazon/Whole Foods
can sell flowers but workers at a local florist can't.

------
slg
It is getting harder and harder to be a fan of Tesla when Musk is out here
routinely saying ridiculous shit. I genuinely like their cars and their
mission, but this guy is just unhinged.

~~~
natch
Did you hear about how many Tesla employees in China died of the virus after
they resumed production? Insane, right?

~~~
busymom0
For those wondering - I would recommend Elon's recent podcast on Joe Rogan.
They have 8000 employees in China and 0 deaths. He knows what he's doing.

~~~
robocat
China has almost no new cases - what did Musk have to do with that?

~~~
tomohawk
China _reports_ almost no new cases.

~~~
robocat
Either way, Musk can report no deaths.

------
yongjik
Full text:

> Tesla is filing a lawsuit against Alameda County immediately. The unelected
> & ignorant “Interim Health Officer” of Alameda is acting contrary to the
> Governor, the President, our Constitutional freedoms & just plain common
> sense!

> Frankly, this is the final straw. Tesla will now move its HQ and future
> programs to Texas/Nevada immediately. If we even retain Fremont
> manufacturing activity at all, it will be dependen on how Tesla is treated
> in the future. Tesla is the last carmaker left in CA.

I love how he says "immediately" and "Texas/Nevada" right next to each other.
So he's moving right now... except that he didn't decide where?

~~~
dawnerd
They have a facility in Nevada and rumored to already have a location in Texas
picked for the next factory so it makes sense to me.

------
KKKKkkkk1
Apparently freedom-loving Elon likes the Chinese government much better than
Alameda County's.

 _Exactly! Tesla knows far more about what needs to be done to be safe through
our Tesla China factory experience than an (unelected) interim junior official
in Alameda County._

[https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259169882513367040](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259169882513367040)

 _But to say that they cannot leave their house, and they will be arrested if
they do, this is fascist. This is not democratic. This is not freedom. Give
people back their goddamn freedom._

[https://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-posts-third-
consecutive-q...](https://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-posts-third-consecutive-
quarterly-profit-despite-coronavirus-11588193515)

~~~
cft
China is freer _economically_ : its economic freedom trajectory is trending up
while Bay Area's is trending down. You can also see the growth numbers in both
places.

~~~
tenpies
> China is freer economically

Freer economically as long as the Party wants you to be free. Otherwise
they'll bankrupt you overnight.

I am incredibly curious to see how the Tesla Shanghai project plays out, given
some of the extremely favourable clauses that China got out of Musk. I would
bet that the factory is not really Tesla's any more within 5 years, and that
Tesla Shanghai begins cannibalizing Tesla Proper's sales this year.

For reference: money earned by Tesla Shanghai cannot leave China, so every
sale they make abroad is money that will be in China for a long while.

------
firasd
Making literal what I suspected: Elon’s ‘Free America’ posturing was about
keeping his factory running.

All the polls I’ve seen show that less than 20% of people believe everything
is safe. The only ‘open up now’ constituency in America (besides political
cranks) is people who wouldn’t have to expose themselves to the virus if they
had to go back to work or send their kids to school tomorrow.

~~~
hombre_fatal
I'm sure his employees appreciate being able to work and make salary while
their furloughed friends are worried about making ends meet.

I know I do. Not everyone believes the overreaction is justified.

------
pmcollins
This Elon tweet adds context:

> San Joaquin County, right next door to Alameda, has been sensible &
> reasonable, whereas Alameda has been irrational & detached from reality. Our
> castings foundry and other faculties in San Joaquin have been working 24/7
> this entire time with no ill effects. Same with Giga Nevada.

[https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259163638142660618?s=20](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259163638142660618?s=20)

------
mdorazio
I honestly don't know what to think of this. Can Elon even make unilateral and
rash decisions like this? I know Tesla is hurting right now due to the forced
shutdowns of manufacturing, but so are all the other OEMs - why is Elon trying
to hard to sidestep restrictions?

~~~
jariel
1) His factory cannot get moving, due to restrictions, he's using a populist
platform to make sure people know it's not his fault, and to put pressure on
the county.

2) He's using Twitter a little bit like Trump - saying somewhat inflammatory
things, tapping into an emotional vein, possibly garnering support from
fanboys, making noise.

Twitter it seems, is a place where statements don't have to be fully true or
real. It's like an 'emotional landscape' where people can push the buttons of
the masses and get away with it.

A lot of people in the investor class right now are upset their stocks are
falling, they see the pandemic is not as bad as predicted and they want
everyone back to work. Many working people feel similarly. But a larger group
of people, especially those in difficult conditions, are rightly afraid; the
'meatpacking plants' in various places have had huge covid outbreaks and some
deaths, in Canada it's been a serious source of outbreak. There's no reason to
believe it won't be the same anywhere else.

But Elon is missing something in his rants: if and when the factory does
startup, there will be a COVID outbreak on some level and there is a very high
chance that a Tesla employee somewhere, somehow will die from COVID. Now it
may not be 'his fault' but it won't matter.

If Elon is seeing as being unsympathetic and not concerned about his staff -
and - someone dies from Covid (one way or another, possibly not even really
related to his policy) - then it could blow up and backfire on him in an
existential way.

CNN: "Elon Musk forces people back to work; 2 dead from Covid" \- is the kind
of stain that does not come off.

Elon needs to spend a lot more time publicly demonstrating empathy and showing
materially how he is working protecting his workers.

~~~
ac29
> A lot of people in the investor class right now are upset their stocks are
> falling

I'm not sure this is entirely true - stocks are worth more than they were last
June, way before this crisis started and have trended up over the past month.
Maybe this will still be true in 6 months or a year, maybe not - its far too
early to say. If anything, it seems the "investor class" thinks there are
bargains to be had right now.

~~~
jariel
Almost everyone lost out, and so they are down from the peak, so the bargains
are neutral, or rather, they don't have the excess cash for them. Very few had
the wherewithal to time it right.

But culturally, the business world has an innate paternalistic
industriousness. They want to 'get things moving' on a much deeper level.

Musk is saying what most business leaders are thinking, right or wrong.

~~~
perl4ever
The Nasdaq is up for the year. Everybody panicked around March 13th, and the
market bottom appears to have been within a week of that. It's been nearly
straight up from there.

I don't know if Wall Street was _right_ yet, but that was its verdict.

Now, it's true that my IRA is down a little, but I'm not really "the investor
class".

You say "very few had the wherewithal to time it right", but I'd question
that, because all it took, in principle, was doing nothing. Not possible for
everyone who's unemployed, for instance, but not something that takes large
amounts of brains or capital.

------
pengaru
Ambien.

    
    
      after being asked whether he writes his own tweets: "I'm the only
      author, so, love or hate it, that's me. I've learned some lessons
      though, such as tweeting on Ambien isn't wise." [0]
    
    

[0]
[https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/794578375415238656](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/794578375415238656)

~~~
tenpies
That's no excuse. This is just another event where Tesla's uninsured Board is
demonstrating they did not comply with the SEC's requirement to have a Twitter
nanny on Musk.

This also should have been released in an 8-K.

At this point the SEC may as well cease to exist because it has shown itself
to be utterly spineless.

~~~
pengaru
> That's no excuse.

Didn't mean it as one, I'm no Musk apologizer. His erratic behavior is
terrible for the company and certainly discourages me from holding TSLA stock
much longer than a few hours at a time during positive earnings calls.
Presumably I'm not the only one who feels that way.

------
Ididntdothis
Not matter the reasons why he does this, it will be good for the country as a
whole if industry spreads out and doesn't concentrate in a few places. It may
even be better for the Bay Area in the long run. I hope more companies will do
so.

~~~
ntsplnkv2
> doesn't concentrate in a few places.

It'd be better too if power didn't concentrate in a few individuals who can't
control their twitter accounts.

------
jdhn
1\. I wonder if he'll actually do this, or if this is brinkmanship to extract
some concessions from Cali.

2\. If he really does do this, I would assume that he would move into the
Reno/Carson City area because that's where the factory is. If this is the
case, then he really needs to throw his weight around to loosen restrictions
on building new residential housing in the area, whether than takes the form
of fewer parking spaces per building, reducing the amount of setbacks, or
both. Both rent and housing are very expensive there.

~~~
jbreiding
#1 seemed to work for Amazon didn't it? Sure it put some of the way they do
business under a micro scope, or unneeded attention. But musk seems to not
care too much about the attention.

------
mlindner
Glad to hear this. California has been in a thorn in Tesla's side for quite
some time with their repeated slowdowns of factory expansion, various legal
disputes for laws that only exist in California, and also the very high
salaries and wages that are needed to run in California. This will help make
Tesla vehicles cheaper as well by reducing labor costs.

Also every time I hear about a company leaving California, it makes me happy,
and I work in California.

------
new_realist
If Tesla should move manufacturing anywhere, it should be to its idle factory
in Buffalo, New York.

That won’t happen, though. I expect that more and more Tesla manufacturing
will go offshore to China. Especially battery manufacturing.

~~~
misiti3780
Im from buffalo, and I have a feeling it would have a lot of trouble getting
tech talent there. also, no one wants to move to buffalo, as im sitting in my
living room on may 9th, im looking at a blizzard.

------
GaryNumanVevo
I remember a long time ago, the Hollywood moguls threatened to pick up and
move out when California was getting more socially liberal, look who’s still
here 100 years later

~~~
luckylion
The socially liberal Hollywood moguls? So in a hundred years, it will be Tesla
that's still in California, only then they will advocate to shut down their
factories indefinitely?

------
beloch
I wouldn't be surprised if freshly negotiated financial incentives for Tesla
are announced by Texas shortly. Tesla relies pretty heavily on the public
purse, and perhaps strings have been tightened too far in California.

------
stevievee
Side note: How does this go from front page to Page 5 (Rank 120+) within an
hour while having 100+ points and 150+ comments?

I'm assuming downvotes and users not interested in the topic but still seems
extreme to me.

~~~
hombre_fatal
I think more comments than points is a negative rank factor on HN. Probably
because it unmasks the submission as argument fuel for HNers.

~~~
stevievee
Interesting, thank you. I know it's "faux pas" to discuss the algorithm but I
was just looking for the submission again and noticed this.

------
danso
How feasible/practical would it be for Tesla to move its manufacturing "and
future programs" out of California, while keeping its software/AI team in the
Bay Area?

~~~
MattGaiser
It worked for Boeing /s

[https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/11/how-
boeing...](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/11/how-boeing-lost-
its-bearings/602188/)

------
botolo
After recent statements, I am surprised that the board has not decided to
remove him, immediately.

~~~
jdross
On what grounds? You don't like how he tweets?

He has built a $150 billion company from the ground up, is 5-7 years ahead of
his competitors, in a sector where it is nearly impossible to survive.

The company has dramatically accelerated the shift to electric vehicles.

You don't like him? Don't follow him on twitter or buy the stock or products.
Otherwise, he seems not to dissimilar from most neuro-atypical founders I know

~~~
misiti3780
Completely agree - I'm confused by all the elon hate on HN. If he died today,
he would accomplish more by 48 than most people could in 10 lifetimes. He's
obviously a bit crazy but you would have to be to take on the projects he
takes on.

~~~
perl4ever
A lot of the "Elon hate" is dull, generic, and irritating to read, from my
point of view. It's clear he's accomplished a lot, regardless of what happens
in the future. I don't think it would be too grandiose to say he's
substantially changed the course of history with Tesla and SpaceX.

However, I would experience a great deal of schadenfreude at his downfall at
this point, because he's become one of those larger-than-life people who think
they are entitled to destroy anyone who gets in his way. It could be that the
local official that he's fighting with has some faults, has made some
mistakes. But she represents functioning civil society to me and he represents
all the powerful people that are heedlessly trying to destroy it.

------
a3n
He already has operations in Nevada. He should just ramp up there, leave
California (despite whatever attracted him to be there in the first place),
and STFU about it.

Who cares?

------
omgwtfbyobbq
Elon had generally had a flair for the dramatic. I feel like being mostly
housebound might be wearing in him too. It reminds me a little of the Simpsons
take on Howard Hughes.

[https://youtu.be/FQN8UTLLU0M](https://youtu.be/FQN8UTLLU0M)

~~~
selimthegrim
I was thinking the role played by Jimmy Dean in Diamonds Are Forever but I
guess that was the same vein

------
nradov
The funny thing is, Tesla still isn't legally allowed to sell vehicles in
Texas. All sales to Texans are legally structured as out-of-state
transactions. Although Texas is generally more business friendly than
California it still has some weird restrictions.

~~~
a3n
Never underestimate the power/money/lobbying of legacy auto dealers.

------
joshlittle
Elon, enjoy Texas (or Nevada...) Hope it goes well for you. Tip: Don't tell
them you are a California transplant.

I'd personally consider Michigan, Ohio, Kentucky, Illinois, Indiana, or
Ontario; they're much more supportive of the auto industry - and ample
manufacturing and tooling expertise resides there.

With lots of soon to be idled property next to Warm Springs BART & near the
Dumbarton, 237, 580, 680; time to build more housing.

------
clouddrover
An article with more context than a one sided tweet:

[https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/09/business/coronavirus-
elon...](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/09/business/coronavirus-elon-musk-
tesla-california.html)

------
yumraj
This is just postering, as he's been known to do all the time.

I'll believe it when I see it happen.

------
seesawtron
Can anyone explain to me what are the arguments as to why would CA state govt.
keep companies like Tesla or others from reopening? What does the govt. has to
gain from this lockdown of industries?

------
bryanlarsen
Tesla isn't allowed to directly sell cars from their showrooms in Texas.

~~~
hombre_fatal
I'm sure they'll have a hard time finding talent in the 2nd most populous
state with a large engineering industry.

------
SrslyJosh
In other Musk news, apparently human language will be obsolete in about five
years.

How anyone take this guy seriously? Look at the things his followers on
twitter write. It sounds like a cult.

------
purplezooey
It seems like many formely respectable leaders turn into a mouthpiece for a
"certain" side of the political spectrum.

------
uberman
From the tweets manipulating stock prices to the name of his kid, claims of
forsaking possessions, false claims about constitutional guarantees of
limitless freedom, to the flagrant disregard for the health and safety of his
employees, I can't help but wonder if Musk has had some medical event that is
imparing his cognition.

He once seemed to be the savoir of humanity but these days he just seems like
the typical angry CEO looking to manipulate things to his advantage.

~~~
jdross
He seems pretty much the same to me, honestly. Everything he is doing seems
either to the benefit of the companies he is building, or personally weird but
ultimately harmless.

Moving out of a state that won't let you run your business seems like a very
savvy move for a person whose job is running a business and growing it as
quickly as possible (which he would say is in order to accelerate the shift to
a sustainable energy future, which you can agree with or not)

I'm genuinely confused by the animosity

~~~
paulgb
> I'm genuinely confused by the animosity

To me, it's because this stinks in the same way as Bezos playing cities off
each other to extract concessions. He's even asking fans and shareholders to
sue the county[1] and reach out to politicians[2]. A county has made a
decision, presumably in good faith, in the interest of public health. You
don't have to agree with their decision, but throwing your weight around as a
billionaire to spite them for it is a bad look.

1:
[https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259165058426232832](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259165058426232832)

2:
[https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259174414865719296](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259174414865719296)

Edit: fixed reference link (thanks mft_).

~~~
rcMgD2BwE72F
>A county has made a decision, presumably in good faith, in the interest of
public health.

This can be debated, right? I'm not sure what's the problem with the
management of a company saying they're moving a headquarter because they
believe they can better operate elsewhere, or asking other people who feel
negatively impacted to consider a legal actions (unless you don't trust the
legal system, but that's another matter I guess).

~~~
paulgb
Of course it can. Is there evidence of bad faith on the county's part? I'm
open to updating my beliefs.

~~~
jdross
It's not required. He's making a decision that business is best conducted
elsewhere, as is his right.

Personally, I don't want to live in a country where unelected officials can
unilaterally make decisions that shut down the economy and kill my business
and life's work. I'd certainly have a lot to say about it

~~~
paulgb
> Personally, I don't want to live in a country where unelected officials can
> unilaterally make decisions that shut down the economy and kill my business
> and life's work.

Same, but I also wouldn't want to live in a county whose officials are afraid
to make decisions that are in the best interest of the people's health out of
fear of the wrath of a billionaire and his followers.

If he wants to move the plant I have no problem with that, it's the way he's
trying to use his position for outsized political pressure that I dislike.

------
tomohawk
If the idea is to maintain lockdown policies until a vaccine is available,
then now is the ideal time to move. The downside is less.

It seems likely that these kinds of pressures will limit the viability of
maintaining a lockdown for long.

------
pl0x
Elon is becoming more and more of a conspiracy right wing nut.

------
inamberclad
Bye!

------
dustinmoris
Good for humans <> Good for humanity

Elon Musk knows and sees the difference, most don’t. That’s my subjective view
on this topic.

------
ykevinator
Plus Texas, come on, guns and prayer, good luck finding talent

~~~
hnburnsy
Ummmm...Austin is in Texas...

'Austin is sometimes referred to as the “Silicon Hills”, mainly due to the
large number of technology companies who make their home here. Austin includes
3M, Apple Inc., Hewlett-Packard, Google, Facebook, AMD, Applied Materials,
Cirrus Logic, Cisco Systems, eBay/PayPal, Bioware, Blizzard Entertainment,
Hoover’s, Intel Corporation, National Instruments, Samsung Group, Silicon
Laboratories, Oracle Corporation, Hostgator, and United Devices as some of the
top companies with have operations in Central Texas.'

------
ninetyfurr
This inversion has been years in the making. I understand Silicon Valley is
quite the Disneyland of tech, but you realize the rest of California is a
third world country, and people and companies are fleeing in droves.

------
Fjolsvith
I don't blame them. The Top Four Reasons California Is Unsustainable:

[https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasdelbeccaro/2018/04/19/the...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasdelbeccaro/2018/04/19/the-
top-four-reasons-california-is-unsustainable/#5bce3bb3a239)

And I don't see it has improved.

------
busymom0
I would recommend Elon's recent podcast on Joe Rogan. They have 8000 employees
in China and 0 deaths. He knows what he's doing.

When over 90% of the severe cases and deaths are of very old and pre-existing
conditions, it doesn't make sense to keep the younger and mostly unaffected
healthy people (usually also the workforce) at home.

66% of New York Hospitalizations Statewide Are From People Sheltering at Home,
only 3 percent in New York City had been using public transportation, 96
percent had other underlying health conditions:

[https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2020/05/07/new-
sur...](https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2020/05/07/new-survey-
suggests-66--of-all-new-hospitalizations-are-from-people-sheltering-at-home-)

33% are from nursing homes:

[https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/09/us/coronaviru...](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/09/us/coronavirus-
cases-nursing-homes-us.html)

~~~
birdyrooster
8,000 people is too small of a sample size to say what they did was repeatable
or significant.

Also notable is that Fremont, California is not similar to China in that they
do not have the same draconian lockdown policy. You cannot have employees
coming and going to the factory because when they are not at the factory, you
have no control over where they go. In China, you have more control and more
policy to support this limitation of personal autonomy.

