
China’s 1 Percent Flock to Canada - ilamont
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/13/world/americas/canada-vancouver-chinese-immigrant-wealth.html
======
plg
Big cities always have rich kids.

There is an undercurrent of racism in this article and in Vancouverites'
attitudes towards rich kids from asia.

We tend to think of these kids through a lens where we think of our own
childhoods and imagine adding enormous wealth. "Just like my childhood except
add a $150,000 car allowance".

This is often not the case though. These kids can experience very difficult
childhoods. Sent to a foreign country to attend boarding school, or live with
a nanny in a big empty house. Hostile, often racist citizens all around them,
and people constantly critical of their wealth. (how can you blame a 17 year
old for having rich parents?)

I grew up in Vancouver with many kids like these around me. The vast majority
of them are good, decent, friendly people who frankly have a tough time in
their circumstance.

There is also a certain self-fulfulling prophecy in the whole dynamic, where
hostile (often racist) Vancouverites immediately throw scorn all over these
kids and their families... and then when they graduate and leave people say
"see, they just came here to get an education and make a quick buck from the
housing market". Well perhaps if we were less hostile and more welcoming, it
would be a different story, and better for everyone including the local
economy.

~~~
UVB-76
Perhaps, if an individual doesn't want to be a victim of resentment and
stereotyping, they shouldn't drive a $150,000 car?

Especially at an age where it's extremely unlikely for that individual to have
accrued the necessary wealth themselves.

~~~
FussyZeus
I think it's more appropriate to say that if the individual can have a
$150,000 car at no cost, why on Earth would he/she give a shit what you think
of him? I'd take the car and wouldn't hear your opinions of me or it over the
engine.

~~~
UVB-76
It can be more nuanced than that. Some of these "rich kids" are brought up in
an environment, or culture, where they simply don't expect ostenentatious
displays of wealth (even by those who have apparently not earned the wealth
themselves) to be met with these responses.

In any case, I think it's important to emphasize the individual has a choice.

No one is forcing these people to flaunt their wealth.

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bko
This article is part of a worrying acceptance in the popular media of
xenophoboia and hatred of the wealthy.

> China’s rapid economic rise has turned peasants into billionaires. Many
> wealthy Chinese are increasingly eager to stow their families, and their
> riches, in the West, where rule of law, clean air and good schools offer
> peace of mind, especially for those looking to escape scrutiny from the
> Communist Party and an anti-corruption campaign that has sent hundreds of
> the rich and powerful to jail.

This whole article breeds condescension. Peasants? "Stow away their families"?
Not to mention the the fact that Canada is one of the least corrupt countries
in the world. Perhaps they are fortunate enough to seek a better life for
themselves and their families free of political oppression.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
There are two kinds of chinese immigrants these days. The ones looking for a
better life in a more fair setting (they are going to work). The other ones
have been incredibly successful in China, but much of their money is grey, and
it is only a matter of time until they are made an example of by some anti
corruption crackdown. The latter ones are China's one percent, they got rich
by playing the system and going abroad is their escape/retirement plan. Not
only that, but they aren't going to be paying income taxes (they have plenty
of money already) and are just going to keep pumping money into housing,
exporting China's insane property bubble.

No one here I think has a problem with working immigrants. In fact, it kind of
sucks more for them because this is some of the fu'er'dai/red family
unfairness that they were trying to get away from in the first place.

~~~
bko
Denizens provide more to a country than just paying income taxes. I believe in
immigration not as an attempt to maximize tax revenue and minimize by tax
burden. But because an open accepting society and mobility is in the best
interest of all humans.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
These people have a massive amount of money that they basically stole from the
rest of the country (and its environment) and now are trying to get it out
while they can. China's GDP growth looks great until you realize how unevenly
that growth occurred, and what the real cost was. And now they will basically
use the west to protect those gains from being reclaimed when everyone
realizes how bad the damage is. That sucks.

I have no problem with immigration. I'm almost an immigrant (ironically
enough, in China). But I see the things that make life here so hard
(unfairness, corruption) exported back to my home, you are damn right I'm not
going to be happy about it.

~~~
bko
China's poverty has fallen rather drastically over time, as it has throughout
the rest of the world[0]. The ill begotten gains of the ultra wealthy are only
so because of the state control. Perhaps you're getting upset at the symptoms
rather than the cause.

[0]
[http://povertydata.worldbank.org/poverty/country/CHN](http://povertydata.worldbank.org/poverty/country/CHN)

~~~
seanmcdirmid
China's poverty has fallen, but there are still plenty of people living in
dirt filled basements (there is an ant tribe even in my apartment building).
The red families control around 40%+ of the economy, the air is unbreathable,
the water is toxic, a crappy 90sqm apartment goes for $1 million.

China has a lot of wealth, if it was evenly divided, if more attention was
paid to the environment, if laws were actually enforced consistently....it
would already be a first world country. That it isn't is basically because of
these people.

------
drchiu
Most of the hate comes from people who got left out of the real estate price
appreciation over the past 10 years in Vancouver.

There are _a lot_ of Canadians, however, who benefited from a disproportionate
increase in wealth over this period of time as well.

In fact, many people who have bought multiple homes in Vancouver have now
amassed a fortune which would make any startup founder who just got bought out
by Google blush.

It's sort of like being in the right place at the right time. Like if you just
so happened to have owned a hardware shop and sold shovels when the gold rush
happened.

Toronto will probably be the next to experience the insane price increases
we've seen in Vancouver as the housing inventory there becomes more scarce.

~~~
kohanz
I lived and worked in Vancouver for a couple of years at an engineering firm.
Our IT guy was a consultant who worked for a few companies. He was Asian, but
I believe he had been in Canada for a long time. Anyway, we were always amazed
by the different fancy car he would arrive in each time he came to our office
(Ferrari, Lambo, you name it). I know IT guys can make decent money, but you
wouldn't have expected this kind of wealth. Based on what we knew about he
him, we concluded that he must have made his wealth as you said, right place,
right time, in the Vancouver real estate bull market. While I was there he
"retired" while he looked to be in his late 40s.

~~~
drchiu
I think a lot of pundits and observers don't quite realize that there are only
a few places in the world where the top 1% rich immigrants from China and
other countries can actually feel comfortable moving to.

Speaking only of Canada, Vancouver is one such place. Toronto is another.

The relative housing price increase in places like -- say, Halifax -- although
has gone up, will not be like that of Vancouver's or Toronto's.

You need to follow the flow of money and the _reason_ why there's the flow of
money there. In this case, 1% of a very large population simply means there's
going to be a lot of demand for flight to safety into Canadian real estate in
Vancouver and Toronto -- two places where a lot of immigrants have already
moved to.

It's sort of like trying to start a new social networking app... you need a
network effect for the app to even reach critical mass. Vancouver/Toronto --
that's what happened there.

------
cylinder
News flash: the rich are mobile, always have been.

Chinese are singled out by media because it plays on American whites'
insecurity.

~~~
Apfel
It's not quite that - 富二代 bring their own particular problems.

1) The methods in which their parents attained their money. Most that I've met
have been reticent to talk about the source of their parents wealth (as
mentioned in the article).

A lot are speculated to have been involved in widescale corruption and theft
of the country's wealth - this should really irritate you (I'm making the
assumption that you're an overseas Chinese here, apologies if not)

2) Their spending behaviour is seen as nouveau-riche and trashy. Furthermore,
they don't conform to the west's idea of "civilized" behaviour. This can be
seen in the thousands of videos of mainland chinese tourists available on
youtube. Whether the west is right or wrong, this sort of cultural difference
is undoubtedly something worth talking about in the media, wouldn't you say?

3) Most of these kids never had any siblings or decent caregivers growing up
to help them develop any kind of emotional intelligence, so they develop into
"little emperors".

Often, their parents enable these kind of behaviours, like in the example of
Xu Yichun - the kid who caused a death and several serious injuries with
reckless driving - his parents immediately paid his $2 million bail and tried
to get him out of the country.

4) A lot of them make absolutely no attempt to integrate. Whether you consider
this a negative depends on your perspective, but it definitely does irritate a
lot of people. I've met Chinese masters' students at top 3 universities who
can't string together a coherent written or spoken sentence.

I'm aware some of these things are not specifically Chinese, but suggesting
they're actively singled out is untrue. Anyone who's spent a lot of time among
chinese international students in the US or UK must see at least some aspect
of these issues.

~~~
FussyZeus
1) Wealth cannot be "stolen", it doesn't belong to the country, it belongs to
the individual. Unless it's the Government's money that's just called
"spending."

Edit: I'm referring to the idea frequently spoken by Trump supporters, that
somehow wealth created in a given country must be kept in that country. It's
nonsense. Wealth (tied to individuals anyway) should be as free to move as
those individuals. It isn't tied to any given country or state therefore they
have no sway in what happens to it or what it's used for beyond the obvious
legalities such as importing contraband, smuggling, that sort of thing.

2) Relativistic standards in different places. This is Xenophobia at it's
finest. "You didn't spend your money like I would, therefore you are
dumb/scary/silly/stupid."

3) As if any parent in the West wouldn't try to do the same damn thing for
their kid if they got in trouble in a foreign country. Hell I've seen parents
defending their children in courtrooms in the same country. It's a lot harder
to condemn your own offspring to jail time than most people think.

4) Who cares? It's not your money, they're paying stupid tax to send their
children to universities they can't complete and possibly spending enough of
it to get some stupid piece of paper telling them how smart their kids are.
Not going to help them when mom and dad are gone.

This whole article and topic reeks of people who haven't heard the phrase
"mind your own business" enough.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Wealth can totally be stolen, by taking tax money, by pooping on the
environment, by pumpin and dumping in stocks or real estate. Then there are
scams, prostitution, all sorts of illegal ways of making money, but most of it
is like: government sells X to connected family member really cheap.
Corruption reeks.

~~~
FussyZeus
You're citing actual crimes to make your case. Taking your wealth to another
country and buying things is not a crime, it's commerce. The origin of said
wealth is irrelevant to the Lamborghini dealer, if that person writing the
check is polluting or insider trading or whatever then that is a separate
issue.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Uhm, no, money laundering laws are quite clear that taking I'll gotten wealth
is a crime, but fancy getting any of that information from China. We could
just stop with greedy immigration policies that are oriented around milking
money from other countries, and focus on human capital instead. After all,
those ill gotten slips of paper are just going to feed into asset bubbles,
whereas scientist and engineers can actually create real value.

------
Cenk
This is an excellent article on the subject:
[http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/02/22/chinas-rich-
kid...](http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/02/22/chinas-rich-kids-head-
west)

------
myth_drannon
The article mentioned that the immigrant investor program is defunct, that's
not entirely true. Québec still has it but they never stay in Montreal just
move to Vancouver.

~~~
middleclick
Vancouver is a better city in terms of weather and the scenery.

~~~
kspaans
If by better you mean "less cold", sure. Not everyone is afraid of cold.

------
cm3
There's a huge population of Chinese and descendants of American-Chinese from
the US rail road and gold digging days in Vancouver, so it kinda makes sense
for them to concentrate there. But is it Canada only and not also San
Francisco and similar locations of Chinese population on that continent?

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chris_wot
1% of 1.357 billion people is about thirteen and a half million people.

Time for me to stop reading headlines literally.

------
cm3
As long as they pay their taxes, what's the problem?

~~~
jmorphy88
Isn't there a lot more more to being a citizen of a country than paying one's
taxes? Nothing about integrating into a community? A country is not an
economy.

Let's put it this way... if I were a (white) billionaire, and a few hundred of
my richest friends and I moved to China and started buying up real estate in a
major city and flaunting our wealth all over the place, how do you think the
locals would receive us?

~~~
rmah
Um, that is essentially what happened about 100 years ago. A few differences
though... The europeans brought along lots of armed guards and demanded
China's laws didn't apply to them. Obviously, there was some friction.

~~~
chillydawg
Are you describing Hong Kong?

~~~
rmah
Yes, among other locations (Hong Kong, Canton, Amoy, Shanghai, etc.). I was
describing the various "treaty ports" that were established following the
Opium Wars, which were essentially a series of wars fought by the west to
allow the import of illegal drugs into China. The major western powers forced
China into providing land and extra-territorial rights to westerners in China.

The Chinese still remember this era quite vividly and describe it as the
"Century of Humiliation".

------
tim333
They could cap the numbers at so many thousand and then have the state build
that many new homes. Stop the accommodation problems and make some money for
the government from the property development.

------
jordache
from peasants to billionaires.. new money with some of the worst tastes..
that's why the tackiest luxury brands are selling like hot cakes in China..

Buying a BMW is not sufficient, it has to be a BMW not made in China,
otherwise, it's considered a step down..

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Don't forget the pink matte sticker paint job to go with new new BMW or
Mercedes. The worst is one someone goes for a gold or chrome paint job on a
Ferrari, they are always parked outside of Gongti night clubs in Beijing.

~~~
jordache
Oh so now they've started to compete the Emiratis for the tackiest in the
world?

~~~
seanmcdirmid
No idea, I only no Beijing tackiness. Though given the license plate lottery
EV preference, I've been seeing a few more Teslas on the road lately, without
the tacky paint jobs.

~~~
jordache
beijing traffic is like the worst nightmare one can imagine, and this was me
visiting in 2011...

it's such a bad place to live.

