
Developers: You Are What's Wrong With the iPhone AppStore  - ynniv
http://ynniv.com/blog/2009/11/developers-you-are-whats-wrong-with.html
======
haseman
I've been writing mobile software for 6 years, and I find all the belly-aching
terribly amusing. Despite all the complaints, inconsistencies, and
contradictions, Apple treats their developers better than any other mobile
marketplace. I'll say that again. Apple treats their phone developers better
than any other mobile software marketplace. (Android market might be a little
better, but no-one is using it)

Wanted to submit an app for Verizon on the Get-It-Now shop? You're looking at
spending 10,000$ in testing fees. Fail testing? You pay again.

By all means, lets keep up with the griping. The more Apple is forced to bow
to the teeming masses, the better the other marketplaces have to treat us to
keep up.

~~~
DarkShikari
There only seems to be a double standard because you're making an invalid
comparison.

On most smartphones, while there's a high bar to pass to get into the official
"app store" for that phone or service, _nobody is stopping you from selling an
app outside that store_. As such, Apple's review process is not merely a
review process for a store, but also serves as a review process for _all
applications that a user can install on the phone_.

It's the difference between a lengthy review process for selling a game on
Steam (reasonable) and a review process for selling a game that a user can
install on Windows (not reasonable).

~~~
rogupta
While that is relevant for you and me, I'm guessing for the vast majority of
phone users, this is meaningless. The average phone user does not download
apps outside the app store. I would argue the same folks who do download
outside the app store would just jailbreak their iPhone.

Either way, I'm all for a more open approval process.

~~~
mcav
Users _cannot_ download apps outside of the app store without jailbreaking.

It's an awfully far-fetched assumption to think that users wouldn't download
apps outside of the app store if that were an option. People download
windows/mac apps _all the time_.

~~~
brisance
Except that users CAN. It's called ad hoc distribution. Do some research
please.

<http://developer.apple.com/iPhone/program/distribute.html>

~~~
antonovka
Ad-hoc distribution requires that you:

1) Share your unique device identifier with the developer.

2) The developer registers that device ID with Apple. Only 100 devices per
developer may be registered in one year.

3) Apple signs a signing certificate which includes that device ID.

4) The developer signs the application binary with their private key and
includes the Apple-signed certificate with the binary.

This is absolutely not useful for anything other than beta testing.

~~~
brisance
Read the parent comment. I was replying to the specific statement that one
cannot download apps onto the device other than through the App Store, not
addressing whether it is useful or not as a channel to distribute apps.

As to your other points, sign up for the Enterprise program.

[http://manuals.info.apple.com/en_US/Enterprise_Deployment_Gu...](http://manuals.info.apple.com/en_US/Enterprise_Deployment_Guide.pdf)

~~~
antonovka
_Read the parent comment. I was replying to the specific statement that one
cannot download apps onto the device other than through the App Store, not
addressing whether it is useful or not as a channel to distribute apps._

I can get out and push my car, but that doesn't make it a hybrid.

 _As to your other points, sign up for the Enterprise program._

The enterprise program does not allow for external distribution and is not
useful (or even permitted) outside of large enterprise organizations.

------
wglb
I think there are several things wrong with this blog post. First, attacking
Paul's post as if it were whining. Secondly, failing to address the point that
the long approval cycle keeps buggy software out there, reducing the overall
quality of the user experience. Thirdly, it has the tone of "if you don't like
it, leave"

I think time will tell how this discussion will come out. People have been
discounting Android since it was announced, but you get a seriously good user
experience from the start, and the idea of fast iteration, which is what
really drives software today, is very much a reality.

I think the point about having to rewrite android apps for different devices
has been discounted elsewhere.

And are you serious about _If Apple is pissing off developers, I personally
think this is great._?

~~~
ynniv
> failing to address the point that the long approval cycle keeps buggy
> software out there, reducing the overall quality of the user experience.

 _Your_ app's user experience, not _Apple's_. If there were apps critical to
the iPhone experience, this would be a problem. At this point, I don't think
that anyone is going to switch phones because of the quality of 3rd party
apps.

> Thirdly, it has the tone of "if you don't like it, leave"

Well... Apple is going to do whatever they want. You can yell into the wind,
or your can do something constructive.

> And are you serious about If Apple is pissing off developers, I personally
> think this is great.?

Yes, I am. Kind of. We're all quietly building Apple's Empire of Mobile...
stirring up the devs might cause them to create a viable alternative.

------
wvenable
Quotes from the article:

> You pounded your fists because Apple didn't have a "real" SDK, so Apple
> created one.

Success!

> Then you pounded your fists because the approval process is too slow, so
> Apple hired a bunch of noobs.

Success! (sort of)

> Now you're pounding your fists because the newbies aren't consistent in
> their execution.

Still waiting.

If you don't ask for anything, you're not going to get it. Why does this
author think keeping silent is a virtue? That is just stupid. The griping
can't hurt the situation, it can only help it.

~~~
ynniv
There are some diminishing returns to whining. Yes, we got a native SDK. Yes,
we got them to hire more idiots. No, we haven't been able to get them to
improve the current situation.

So its a bit like scaling a poorly written web app... you can throw money for
a while, but you're only going to get so far. I contend that we have gone as
far as whining will get us, now its time for something different.

------
dasil003
This article misses the point. Sure, developers quitting the iPhone and all
moving to Android would probably be the best move for the long-term health of
the smart phone industry. However, just like the rest of the technocrat-
hipster-elite, PG doesn't actually want to give up his cool Apple stuff. He
admonishes Apple because he wants them to get their shit together instead of
forcing us to switch to inferior hardware as a political statement.

As a G1 owner I definitely sympathize. I'm secretly relieved that AT&T sucks
enough to make my Android purchase palatable.

~~~
Readmore
I believe that you actually missed the point of the article. The point was,
quit whining because no one cares about your app.

~~~
dasil003
If that's the point then I guess I did because I thought it was a response to
PG's article.

------
teeja
"Apple wants to be the best"

As an off-again on-again customer since the II, that's clearly never been the
case. Assuming anyone can know what 'the best' is (apart from measurable
technical performance). Every piece of Apple hardware I've owned/operated was
measurably _not_ the best. Including the $400 'super' floppy drive they were
using to filter the air. If Jobs decides you don't need a serial port any
more, it doesn't matter how many thousands you've got invested in serial gear.

Since the Mac advent, Apple is about proprietary everything. That's what
they're 'best' at: they're _control freaks_. It's like joining the DAR. You
had to join a club to program _their_ computers.

If you don't like the Game, don't play. There are other options than being a
dedicated follower of fashion.

~~~
wtallis
I don't think what you describe is really accurate for Apple in recent years.
For starters, their laptops are objectively the best laptops that are actually
portable. Apple has really only been excessively proprietary in a few
instances, most notably with the App Store where they are acting out of the
fear that an unfiltered marketplace could hurt their platform. (In this
respect, they are very much like game console manufacturers.) However, most of
their other oddities, including Firewire, AAC, Objective-C, GCD, launchd, and
miniDisplayPort are at least as open as their primary competitors. The rest of
what you perceive as being too proprietary is probably a combination of
Apple's willingness to be different and their refusal to compete in many low-
end low-margin markets.

~~~
teeja
I haven't owned an Apple laptop. I've been using a Gateway (Vista) for a year
that has had zero problems. You may be right, since I'm aware (as a musician)
how many musicians prefer them.

I did get an iMac in 2005 which had a HD that went flaky in 6 months, and a
display which developed (after about a year of use ...for _thousands_ of
users) a rash of colorful vertical lines which slowly took over a big chunk of
the screen ... a problem which Apple resolutely avoided addressing.

The proprietary nature of Apple (like iPhone's battery) became self-evident to
me as a result of two decades' experience. (Maybe you haven't done much
hardware-level programming? Try to implement any MIDI before Doug got on
board?) From a distance I don't see any reason to think things are different
from when I was much closer. I'm staying away.

------
Tichy
Is that some kind of SEO thing? Like writing "George Bush rules" and
collecting lots of inbound links?

~~~
petercooper
Some forthcoming posts:

\- 13 Ways To Get The Jump On App Store Approval

\- My 22 Best App Approval Tips Ever

\- Developers Spill: The White Lies They Tell To Get Approved Every Time

\- Get Your App Approved Faster: 11 Crazy Ways To Do It

\- A Shocking Thing 63% Of iPhone Developers Do To Make More Money

\- Your iPhone App's Approval Process: 24 Things Apple Forgot To Tell You

\- Write An App Description That Gets Approved Every Time.. In Just 7 Minutes!

~~~
benmathes
You know, I just realized that a _large_ number of blog posts out there aren't
much better than the covers of those women's magazines you see at the checkout
line.

~~~
petercooper
You'd be right.. that's exactly where I got the templates for my suggestions
above :-) See <http://www.copyblogger.com/cosmo-headlines/>

------
drewcrawford
> Most AppStore apps sell for a dollar, because thats about all they're worth.
> (BTW: please disprove this by creating something valuable.)

This is a chicken-and-egg problem. The _reason_ I don't write huge, complex
apps is because I'm not willing to sink time into them if I don't _know_
they'll pass review. I'm willing to waste, maybe, a week's worth of work,
tops.

------
antirez
to build something great is most of the times not possible because of API
limitations. An alternative sms client can be something great if well coded.
Opera for iphone can be great. A new home screen with events, and so forth. In
a development environment where it is not even possible to access the webcam
directly what you get is a lot of toy apps.

~~~
ynniv
I agree that there are API deficiencies, but I think that we as developers
think far too highly of ourselves. Apple's SMS application is very good. I'm
sure that you could add features that you might want, but that doesn't mean
that your SMS application will be better on the whole for a majority of iPhone
users. The same goes for Opera: a couple of new features won't make it better
than Safari.

If you feel that you can make an SMS app better than Apple's, I hear that the
Android API lets you do that. If more people did this, and their apps were
that good, the open platform would be popular.

------
drewcrawford
> I am a long time Mac user, and I will tell you that nobody cares about your
> app, least of all Apple. I didn't buy the iPhone because of you, I bought it
> because of Apple.

The App Store is like C++: everybody uses a different 20%. Apart from games
(which the author acknowledges as a whole separate category), users use
different apps. Consider Omnifocus, Timely, LogMeIn. None of these will make
anyone a millionaire, but you may pry them from my cold, dead hands. Everyone
has a shortlist of apps they use on a daily basis, and they're all different.
But that's in no way a sign of an unhealthy market.

If there was a "killer app" with mass-market appeal, Apple would either buy it
or clone it. The App Store, by definition, is the long tail of the device. And
there's nothing inherently wrong with that.

~~~
ynniv
I doubt that _every_ app in the AppStore has a user who would switch platforms
if it were not available. Is there a compilation of apps that people tend to
view as crucial? And certainly apps like Timely could be a web app (using
HTML5 cache and local storage to operate offline).

------
ellyagg
This whole post was confused and basically incoherent.

------
ynniv
Mods: thanks for changing the title... I made a submission specifically in
reply to an existing submission, but used a non-contextual blog title for the
non-HN visitors. Are the submission guidelines to pretend that HN doesn't
exist? Do I have to pretend that everyone who reads my blog comes from HN to
have a HN-aware submission title?

Thanks okay, I can always change my blog title. You can change it back now.

------
chaosprophet
I agree with the basic premise of the article. Developers are the problem with
the App Store. However I mean it a bit differently. How many developers have
the gumption to quit the App Store till Apple fixes it??? Till a majority of
developer's simply quit developing for the iPhone the app store is going to
remain broken.

------
eplanit
Be Strong = Adhere to Apple's prescriptions, limitations, rules, approval, and
just shut up otherwise??

~~~
ynniv
Hmm, not really my point. "Be Strong" meant find a way to succeed without
Apple's table scraps. We started developing web apps because the OS (and
hardware) vendors can't control them. I would really appreciate if Apple
removed the AppStore process, but I don't expect to just be handed things
because I want them. Looking at this from Apple's perspective, I don't see a
compelling reason for them to concede this.

------
optimusprime
The author needs to learn some basic grammar before pointing a finger at
others. The lack of coherent sentences distracted from his "points".

