
Depression marks on seafloor suggest whales visiting prospective mining sites - dnetesn
https://phys.org/news/2018-08-depression-seafloor-whales-prospective-sites.html
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mc32
To me this headline is phrased in a way that gives the impression that whales
are visiting places because they are prospective mining sites (maybe curious).
However, the text makes clear that that outfits are exploring places which
coincidentally seem to be used by whales --if confirmed mining plans may need
to be altered.

[in other words it implies some causation, but there appears to be none]

~~~
mojomark
Totally read the headline the same way. I thought sea life were fighting 'the
man' for a moment.

Alternative [more responsible?] headline: Newly Conjectured Whale Habitat May
Thwart Deep Sea Mining Prospects

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ianai
Where’s the “thwart”? It’s open ocean between Hawaii and Mexico. I don’t know
of any political force to stop development regardless.

~~~
Johnny555
From the article:

 _They acknowledge that more research will need to be done to prove that the
marks were made by whales—but if their suspicions turn out to be correct, it
could impact licensing for mining in such areas._

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spraak
> Eager to cash in, companies have begun the process of sending machinery down
> to the bottom of the sea to set up mining operations.

What regulatory body would or does oversee that? That makes me really sad...
so much of the earth destroyed, and now one of the last (if not the last?)
untouched part of nature.

~~~
lentil_soup
Makes me very sad as well, the sea is probably one of the last places where
humans haven't destroyed the local mega-fauna

~~~
danparsonson
We're working on that though - many different species of pelagics are
threatened by human activity :-/

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TomMckenny
It'd be ironic if those sea floor nodules have value now. "Mining" them has an
extremely interesting cold-war story.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Azorian#Building_Gloma...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Azorian#Building_Glomar_Explorer,_and_its_cover_story)

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mrfusion
Do we really have the technology to mine the deep sea floor? How would that
work?

We had so much trouble just shutting off the deep horizon well that I figured
any deep underwater operation is beyond our capacity.

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nerdponx
The idea that an air-breathing animal can free dive to 4000 m is astounding.
How long would it take a whale to even get down that far? How do they handle
the enormous pressure, and change thereof?

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delbel
I'm sorry, is that even possible?

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Khaine
"Elusive Whales Set New Record for Depth and Length of Dives Among Mammals. A
new study of elusive Cuvier's beaked whales shows they can dive to nearly
10,000 feet (3,000 meters)." [1]

[1]
[https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/03/140326-cuvi...](https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/03/140326-cuvier-
beaked-whale-record-dive-depth-ocean-animal-science/)

~~~
delbel
3000 meters is amazing, but the comment and article above said 4000 -- an
additional 1000 meters. at this depth, the whale's body would have tensile
strength of something like steel. my bullshit alarm is going off. This is kind
of like saying the international space station might be hit by seagals. If I
told you that, I'm sure you might have some doubts. ???? whats going on here
did they discover a new whale or something

~~~
semi-extrinsic
Deep-water diving mammals have a wide range of adaptations to survive
pressure. Their lungs collapse while they dive, they don't have frontal
sinuses like land-living mammals, and they have special venous plexuses inside
their air cavities (inner ear etc.) that expand when they dive and reinforce
these cavities.

Deep-water fish OTOH have been caught in the Mariana trench at down to 8000
meters. No reason why 3000 meters is the magic limit for whales.

Bottom line, they don't need the tensile strength of steel as they avoid
having body parts in tension or bending (by reducing differential pressures to
almost zero), they just rely on the (in)compressibility of the water-filled
tissue making up their body.

~~~
jerrre
> Deep-water fish OTOH have been caught in the Mariana trench at down to 8000
> meters. No reason why 3000 meters is the magic limit for whales.

Well they don't have to come to the surface every X minutes

~~~
delbel
Yes but there are no whales that can go 4000 meters deep. This is a fact. The
article says they are going 4000+. So what is going on here? The fact that
fish might be able to do this, which are in a different animal kingdom, isn't
being disputed -- that's all great and wonderful but the article is talking
about whales. Whales not fish.

~~~
ceejayoz
"Whales have not been observed going 4000 meters deep" is a fact. "Whales
cannot" doesn't appear to be, unless you can point to some physiological
reason 3000ish is the unbreakable limit.

~~~
delbel
physiological reason is the pressure of water at 4000 meter is 5846.27 PSI.

some simple depth pressure calculator

a heavy duty pressure washer is about half that 2000-3000 psi. Industrial
pressure washer is 3500.

The deepest-diving large, military-style submarine was the Soviet submarine
K-278 Komsomolets, with a hull made of titanium, making it very expensive, but
able to withstand significantly deeper dives than the best submarines made of
high-grade steel, like American nuclear submarines. The Komsomolets was a
nuclear powered submarine specially designed to make trips as far down as 1300
meters (4265 feet) below sea level, definitely less than the Trieste, but very
significant because the Komsomolets had to "defend" a much larger air bubble
against the encroaching pressure of the surrounding ocean.

Compared to the best American nuclear submarines, of the Seawolf class,
Komsomolets had about 78% better diving capabilities. Seawolf submarines have
an estimated crush depth of about 2400 feet (730 m). The Seawolf submarines
are constructed of a high grade steel called HY-100, capable of withstanding
100 atmospheres of pressure. As a rule of thumb, the pressure increases by one
atmosphere for every 10 m of descent.

[http://military.wikia.com/wiki/Submarine_depth_ratings](http://military.wikia.com/wiki/Submarine_depth_ratings)

no matter how many downvotes there are, you can't change the laws of physics
away, this isn't some magical harry potter button

~~~
ceejayoz
The pressure of water at 3000 meters is 4268.33 PSI, and whales have been
_actually observed_ there. I don't see how sustaining 30% more pressure than
they've been observed to do is an insane idea.

Submarines don't have the option of getting rid of all the air - the crew
would die. Whales can exhale the air in their lungs before a dive, and the
rest of their body is largely non-compressible water.

The very article you're citing even shows where your logic is failing:

> very significant because the Komsomolets had to "defend" a much larger air
> bubble against the encroaching pressure of the surrounding ocean

Whales have _minimal or no_ "air bubble" to defend.

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mrfusion
Why do they need a license for mining if this is in international waters? Who
issues the license?

~~~
detaro
Because international waters aren't a free-for-all zone, and subject to
various treaties/UN conventions. The International Seabed Authority.

