
First Nation's clay kills antibiotic-resistant bacteria in lab tests - walterbell
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/antibiotic-resistant-bacteria-clay-1.3421198
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hobs
That article is fairly content free except they did link the paper:

[http://mbio.asm.org/content/7/1/e01842-15.full](http://mbio.asm.org/content/7/1/e01842-15.full)

* Some show antimicrobial or other therapeutic properties, and they have a long history in the treatment of human diseases (5, 6). However, their use is considered to be “naturopathic” medicine, and to date, none have been approved by regulatory agencies for therapeutic applications.

* This deposit differs from other clays such as kaolinite or bentonite. X-ray diffraction shows that KC possesses a low clay mineral content (~24% [wt]), dominated by the presence of biotite (unpublished data). Moreover, as a natural clay deposit, KC has a significant resident microbial community (1,000 to 3,000 taxa), which includes Actinobacteria, which are known to make bioactive small molecules and may contribute to KC activity by the production of antimicrobials (unpublished data).

* More recently, the antibacterial activities and physicochemical characteristics of other therapeutic clay minerals have been investigated in the laboratory (11, 12). Haydel et al. reported on the broad-spectrum in vitro antibacterial activities of a natural iron-rich clay (CsAgO2) that was used to treat patients with Buruli ulcer (12).

* We suggest that the broad-spectrum antibacterial activity of KC may be a valuable option for the treatment of ESKAPE infections, especially in last-resort situations

Looks like they are saying this clay has some interesting physical, microbial,
and mineral properties, in other words, it seems like they dont have any idea
of why it works but are pretty sure it does.

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colechristensen
>it seems like they dont have any idea of why it works but are pretty sure it
does

This is true for a large volume of medical treatments

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theon144
Is this really true? That we don't know, or only have a very vague idea about
the pharmacodynamics, or simply the mechanism of action of various treatments,
so the process is more about establishing that they aren't harmful?

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TeMPOraL
Best example - aspirin. We know it works - but we have no clue how exactly.

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adrianN
The important part in your comment is "exactly", because we know quite a bit
about its mechanism of action.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanism_of_action_of_aspirin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanism_of_action_of_aspirin)

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joezydeco
But we didn't know any of this when we started using aspirin as an analgesic.

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adrianN
Well, yeah, willow bark was already used in antiquity to treat pain.

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daveguy
Lots of things kill bacteria. Bleach for instance. That doesn't mean you
should take it as an antibiotic. Conclusion of the article:

"The next stage in clinical evaluation involves detailed clinical studies and
toxicity testing."

No, the next step is just toxicity testing -- long before any sort of clinical
study.

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jMyles
> Lots of things kill bacteria. Bleach for instance.

I'm not sure that's a reasonable comparison - this is a substance with local
repute and a history of successful use.

Nobody is claiming that bleach is useful in similar applications.

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sandworm101
Bleach is used to kill bacteria in much the same way as this clay, has been
for a long while. Bleach is used worldwide to purify drinking water. It is
used, in diluted form, on skin infections. In a way, I personally use it to
prevent athlete's foot.

If you swim in a chlorine pool (diluted bleach) as much as I do, nothing lives
on your skin for long. Swimmers don't suffer athlete's foot.

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dogma1138
Bleach is also used in dental practice for clearing out bacteria after root
canal's when setting the temp filling if hydrogen peroxide doesn't work.

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gPphX
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phage_therapy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phage_therapy)

Felix d'Hérelle "quickly learned that bacteriophages are found wherever
bacteria thrive: in sewers, in rivers that catch waste runoff from pipes, and
in the stools of convalescent patients."

~~~
agumonkey
Always wondered if Garlic sulfur came from 'evolutionary pressure'(sort of) in
a bacteria rich environment.

It's a bit like asking arsonists about fire.

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rrrazdan
In the Indian subcontinent, certain clay's have been used since ages to help
with wound healing and as an antiseptic.

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ptha
Similarly the Egyptians used honey in wound dressings. "We now know that honey
actually contains substantial amounts of hydrogen peroxide which can kill
bacteria".

Also "moldy bread was used in China, Greece, Serbia, Egypt and probably other
ancient civilizations as treatment for some disease conditions, particularly
infected wounds. The observed curative powers may have been due to some raw
forms of antibiotics produced by the mold growing on the bread".

[http://amrls.cvm.msu.edu/pharmacology/historical-
perspective...](http://amrls.cvm.msu.edu/pharmacology/historical-perspectives)

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OliverJones
This looks promising.

Hopefully the people of the Heiltsuk Nation will make more samples available
to labs hoping to reproduce this work.

Hopefully some of those labs will, in secure containment facilities, explore
how readily the bacteria adapt to develop resistance to this clay. It's
important to work out protocols that don't promote rapid global adaptation.

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DubiousPusher
You can pretty much show any kind of effect from a treatment by P hacking, not
adequatly designing a study or accidentally contaminating your experiment.
This is exactly the kind of thing that really doesn't need attention until
it's replicated.

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snake_plissken
A gander: I wonder if the clay increased the pH to a level that disrupted some
cellular functions of the bacteria. Most clay is alkaline.

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jakobegger
And here's the obligatory XKCD link:
[https://xkcd.com/1217/](https://xkcd.com/1217/)

~~~
sandworm101
Can a handgun kill bacteria? I remember reading about experiments to test
whether bacteria could survive meteor impacts. They couldn't come up with a
gun powerful enough to wipe them out.

Here:
[http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F3-540-25736-5_3](http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F3-540-25736-5_3)

~~~
Retric
Spores != bacteria. Further, can kill is not the same as sterilize, so yes a
handgun can kill some bacteria in much the same way a bullet wound kills some
skin cells.

They are probably less susceptible to
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrostatic_shock](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrostatic_shock)
though.

Though, without actually sterilizing a sample it can be difficult to notice,
but lot's of things kill bacteria. They are easy to kill, but hard to kill
off.

PS: _Spore formation in bacteria is not the principal method of reproduction
but simply a method of surviving unfavourable conditions._ They are like
pinecones which can survive forest fires while pine trees tend to burn really
easily.

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et2o
My favorite way to kill antibiotic-resistant bacteria is with a gun.

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briantakita
now lets distribute knowhow about how one can, with autonomy, learn to heal
themselves

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jMyles
It really is amazing how little we know about the healing and prophylactic
qualities of plants and minerals. I mean, sure, we do know a lot.

But we have such a perverse incentive structure - and I'm talking about IP
here - that makes it more worthwhile to understand something esoteric and
bizarre like a difficult-to-isolate chemical compound, unlikely to have been
encountered very often in the history of human evolution, while it's difficult
to find motivation to do a simple study like this one.

