
Ask HN: How much do you bullshit on a CV/Resume/Interview? - alexnime
On paper I'm an advanced/senior web programmer (8+ years), and I've got that experience in several aspects of development (php, mysql, html5, css3, javascript etc. by today's standards).<p>I reckon I have a fair grasp of UX and UI principles and contribute positively to any meetings regarding the front-ending interfaces of all projects I've been involved in.<p>However, I haven't got any e-commerce experience or much experience with collaborative source control (I've used git for a good few years, but not with other people).<p>I'm freelancing at the moment but I don't enjoy it anymore. I want to find another job.<p>How can I go about getting a job without any e-commerce (or proper source control) experience? Should I lie about my abilities and catch up on anything I've not groked, or just try to find something in my experience's range and hope that I'll get some experience that way?
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hoodoof
Why would you even consider lying? Don't you have any integrity? Isn't there
some sense inside you about behaving in an appropriate manner? A moral
compass?

Another greedy and grasping person willing to do anything to serve their own
interests.

~~~
alexnime
I would've thought it actually came down to how much you lied. But regarding
the question that was given out there...

Yeah, I've considered lying, but not necessarily to deceive. I'd be up to date
with all necessary API's within less than a week, but my point is that because
I've not had any real-world experience, would it be bad to say a white lie in
an industry that relies so massively on past-experience?

And has anyone else lied? Or am I the only one who would consider lying about
something small in order to achieve something better?

~~~
hoodoof
So it's about acceptable lies and unacceptable lies. I suppose it is all a
matter of opinion which lies are acceptable and which are not.

Santa Claus for example is a well accepted lie which is okay to propagate.

~~~
alexnime
Yeah, you're totally right. Except about missing the point.

------
fleitz
Instead of doing that do some SEO on your resume, write down every piece of
software you've ever touched. Then spam it out to all the job hunting boards.
If you've used git then put that, if it comes up in the interview tell them
the truth.

If you were interviewing for a build engineering position knowledge of git-
hooks and all the features would probably be important, what most companies
are looking for is the ability to commit / push. Even if you had never used it
I don't think it would be a deal breaker, it takes about 10 minutes to figure
out git anyway.

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latch
Perhaps this'll be seen as a shameless plug, but this weekend I rewrote my
resume and I'm kinda enamored by how concise it is.

It's hard to lie when you keep things high level and focused on verifiable
work. I do want to rewrite the two wordy parts to be less...standard:

<http://openmymind.net/karlseguin.pdf>

------
veyron
"Should I lie about my abilities and catch up on anything I've not groked"
<\-- that's a nono. I personally interview candidates by finding a somewhat
obscure entry (e.g. awk) and asking a few questions to suss out whether or not
the candidate lied about abilities.

What is your goal?

\- Find some job? Then SEO-spam. Learn SCM (svn or git should take all of a
few hours to learn on your own) and ecommerce (authorize.net and paypal api
are easy to learn, and its a nice exercise to write your own gateway)

\- Find a job that actually fits you? Do some soul searching and figure out
what in particular excites you. You may find that some experiences are
unnecessary (though SCM is definitely a must)

\- Find a job that will actually excite you? Try hacking together your own
project, or work on an open source project to build some street cred.

Alternatively, you can play the blog game (write a blog about stuff, and
broadcast to HN, other forums or other blogrolls). I seem to recall a blog by
a fellow WK Selph, (he wrote a few articles about high frequency trading)
which he used to land a new job.

------
amyshelton
I would highly recommend that you don't lie. As a person who has hired for
several positions and who also has a good BS detector, a discovered lie is
_always_ a deal breaker. It puts your entire candidacy into question and
you're resume goes straight into the trash can.

~~~
alexnime
I can understand if I was caught out. I have had experience (but no real-world
experience) in ecommerce.

I'd be able to answer all your questions, deliver results, learn anything I
didn't know in a few days.

Would it be that bad in this case?

~~~
smithian
Yes. I am currently hiring and have a candidate that is actually perfect for
the job. I will not hire him. Why? Because on his resume he claimed ownership
for some very impressive projects, and in the interview it became clear that
he was in a very junior role in those projects. As my dad taught me, "Do not
lie, cheat, steal, or associate with those who do"

It would be better to be honest about your experience, and if you feel you are
lacking in some area, get some experience in the area you need while you are
looking for a job.

~~~
alexnime
I wouldn't lie about my role in a project. I'd consider that to be different
to be honest.

In this particular example, I was looking for reactions for general skills as
opposed to to specific roles within a project. My apologies, I should've been
clear about that.

~~~
veyron
A lie is a lie is a lie, no matter how small.

~~~
hoodoof
Everyone lies. You lie - I guarantee it. There is such a thing as acceptable
lying. You probably lie every day. If you have kids then you certainly lie
constantly about small things.

The question is, for any individual, what do you consider an acceptable lie?
What are your limits?

For me, lying on a resume is not acceptable. For others clearly it is fine.

~~~
veyron
A lie is a lie is a lie, in _context_ , means that a small lie (i.e. claiming
to know bash even though you never used any of the nontrivial features of
bash) is not acceptable.

When you start hiring people, you will quickly realize how many people claim
expertise, or even awareness, of languages / systems that they dont know
about. e.g. everyone who has used awk '{print $1}' claims to be an awk expert.
And its kinda sad that people see such small things as acceptable.

------
jagtesh
Rather than lying, why don't you put the ecommerce technology under a
different section in your resume.

eg. "Technologies I'm proficient in: Python/Tornado, Java/Spring/Hibernate

Technologies I have some knowledge of: IBM Websphere"

Play it smart. There's no need to lie. If you really are good, build a case
for it - in case they ask you to prove your experience. Prove to them you will
sweat it out and prevail, as you have with other technologies in the past.

See, the #1 thing that I've learned in interviews is - that it's a two way
conversation. Make a case and they will listen, even understand.

------
MetallicCloud
I wouldn't lie about your abilities. Any competent interviewer will suss this
out easily, making you look like a fool.

And if they don't figure out your lying, is that the kind of place you would
want to work? Where everyone there potentially doesn't know what they're
doing.

------
crasshopper
Why not just add a line with "current interests" and put these other things
you're working on learning? Then put in 30 hours to learn the basics.

Don't bullshit - live up to what you want to be.

------
phlux
I have never, nor will ever lie on a resume or an interview.

I just cant do it. If you lie about a skill, likely that will be the one skill
they hire you for having.

I have lost opportunities where i could have easily lied or bullshitted my way
into the job - but that is just not in my character.

I think that anyone who lies on their resume is pretty low in my opinion.

