
What This Medieval Wine Jug Can Tell Us About Islam - Thevet
http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/blogs/sameer-rahim/what-this-medieval-wine-jug-can-tell-us-about-islam
======
sandworm101
The OP has fallen into the common trap of applying the Christian concept of
sin to the Islamic context. Christianity is generally a binary system of sins.
Things are forbidden or they are not. Islamic is full of more subtle
interpretations. Things are good and bad, some worse or better than others.
This allows for contradictions, such as an Islamic wine jug. I chalk this up
to how the hadith were compiled.

This medieval jug can also no more tell us about "Islam" than a pot from 13th
century Ireland can tell us about Lutheranism . At best they are tiny
snapshots within an epic history.

~~~
eliteraspberrie
That's an important difference. Christians believe good is from God and evil
is from Satan. (Forgive me if I'm mistaken, I know that's a gross
oversimplification.) Muslims believe good and evil are both creations of God.
So most things have both good and evil in them, including alcohol:

 _They ask you about wine and gambling. Say, "In them is great sin and [yet,
some] benefit for people. But their sin is greater than their benefit."_

\-- 2:219 [http://quran.com/2/219](http://quran.com/2/219)

Keep in mind that the Quran was revealed piece by piece over two decades. The
later parts add to the earlier parts. That can be a source of ambiguity to
Western readers (not to mention that the chapters are not in chronological
order), which is why it's important to understand it as a whole rather than
its individual verses or chapters.

~~~
sandworm101
Careful. Two or more people agreeing on Islam in a positive way probably
triggers a MIB bot. And I've got a flight in a couple hours.

------
gjkood
"The Rubaiyat" [1] by Omar Khayyam [2] has numerable references to wine.

Omar Khayyam was one of the great Islamic Scientist-Scholars and a famed son
of Khorasan.

[1]
[http://classics.mit.edu/Khayyam/rubaiyat.html](http://classics.mit.edu/Khayyam/rubaiyat.html)

[2] [http://www.muslimheritage.com/article/‘umar-al-khayyam-
omar-...](http://www.muslimheritage.com/article/‘umar-al-khayyam-omar-khayyam)

~~~
ZanyProgrammer
Khayyam was also a skeptic and had very hostile attitudes to all religions at
various times. Very, very far from being orthodox in any sense.

~~~
acqq
And very, very far from being supported by the Islamic clergy of today.

Khayyam died in 12th century. What's with some nine hundred years afterwards?
What's with the state today with to which we have to know? Whoever wants to
argue what "Islam is" must observe what the clergy and "the learned" promote
_today_ and since oil rich countries started to pump their money all through
the world (billions and billions), hijabs, jihad and sharia are more popular
than ever. The ideal becomes exactly a country like Saudi Arabia with
prohibition, beheadings and hand cutting. Because they are the most capable in
spreading their values, and they do support their values with the quotes from
the holy texts. You can't "catch them" in "misquoting."

That's the dangerous development, compared with what was common in a lot of
mostly Muslim countries until just some decades ago. And also the role of the
US in that development is far from positive (as documented by the Washington
Post):

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/12/08...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/12/08/the-
taliban-indoctrinates-kids-with-jihadist-textbooks-paid-for-by-the-u-s/)

"The Taliban indoctrinates kids with jihadist textbooks paid for by the U.S."

And nobody should pretend all this doesn't exist. Especially not based on what
was centuries ago: we have to take the stance to what is happening now.

Anyway, Omar Khayyam was a fantastic poet. Absolutely joy to read, but don't
expect that many of those who are religious today would share his views.

------
known
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_ancient_history](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_ancient_history)

------
contingencies
Pfft. Islam is way broader than medieval Iran, but even in medieval Iran
people were good at wine. Hopefully this article does bust some really
ignorant stereotypes, but it doesn't go far enough. Shiraz, anyone?

------
actionwords
A medieval camel found in Austria will tell you more about Islam. It came to
it's present location when Islam almost conquered Europe.. for the second
time.

[http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/02/europe/austria-camel-
ottoman/i...](http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/02/europe/austria-camel-
ottoman/index.html)

