
Under River, Outside Time: The Woolwich Foot Tunnel Anomaly - zhte415
https://portalsoflondon.com/2017/07/02/the-woolwich-anomaly/
======
gvb
> When it finally re-opened it was 8 months behind schedule, having been
> closed for more than a year and a half.

If time stopped in the tunnel, wouldn't the repairs have been completed
remarkably ahead of schedule from the perspective outside the tunnel? After
all, the workers would put in a full day of repairs in no (outside) time at
all.

~~~
4ndr3vv
Two points: 1) Much of the repairs were done to the lift shafts, which judging
from the story seems outside the time anomalies zone of influence.

2) If a worker in the tunnel completed a day's work instantly, the worker
would have still completed a days work and would need to go home and rest. You
could, in theory, have a rolling start time, so the worker has 15 hours rest
and then is required to come into work again. Unfortunately, legislation
doesn't really account for time anomalies and so this would likely fall foul
of Union and EU standards.

~~~
fragmede
Hire different/more workers?

Setting aside the implausibility of such a secret remaining a secret (none of
the workers had a boffin brother or cousin to show?), and never mind the
implications for physics, with the right incentives, foreman could hire
additional workers, finish the job faster, get paid for that job, and move
onto the next job while looking like they're exceptionally good at things
rather than ending up over-budget and behind schedule, as is expected for
publics works projects. And all without coming up against per-worker Union/EU
standards.

~~~
Bartweiss
I suppose we have two hurdles.

One is getting the outside-tunnel work done - redoing the lifts, trucking in
more tiles, and so on. That's happening at real-world time, so it's going to
be a bottleneck.

The other is getting approval for what looks like a blatantly dishonest hiring
scheme. Sure, the foreman knows he can get 80 hours of work done in that
tunnel every day, but a request to hire that much staff looks like pure make-
work from the outside.

------
SamPutnam
I've experienced something like this programming in a room in the basement of
a hospital at a medical imaging device for 8 hours, where notable project
progress came in the course of days, not hours. With the absence of light,
external stimulation, voices, or people, which would traditionally alert the
mind to refocus on another stimuli and contextualize the stimulation against
the time of day, the only alert is progress. To be clear, there is no
mistaking the long period of time spent during the day whilst performing the
mechanics of the task, but at the conclusion of the day, if there was no
milestone of progress hit, and were it a day where there were _literally_ zero
interruptions, it would feel like I had only been down there _3 hours_.

~~~
noir_lord
My office at work is on the other side of the building from everyone else and
has no windows (I chose no windows over having people nearby). If I don't have
a clock displayed on my taskbar the only sign I know it's time to eat or go
home is the siren for the people who work in the factory on site.

It's a productive programming environment (for a certain type).

~~~
uhhhhhhh
That sounds like heaven.

The constant distraction environment of cubicles severely hampers my
productivity. I work from home as often as possible, but even then I'm no
longer accustomed to being able to focus on one thing for so long that I feel
like I'm becoming more ADD.

People complain about the social impacts of social media etc... I wonder if
anyone has tried to identify/quantify the impact of cubicles/shared
workspaces.

~~~
at-fates-hands
I've worked in several "open" office layouts for several large corporations
and they're horrible. At one, it was so loud and distracting, I barely could
get anything done due to all the interruptions. When one person would get
sick, it was a chain reaction. Within days, half our team would be out sick.
It was a miserable place to work. Both places abandoned the open office
concept and went back to cubicles with additional "collaboration" spaces
instead. Needless to say, it was much better.

The funny thing is the company I currently work for went back to this "open
office" concept and call it "hoteling" now. They have desks with monitors and
a dock everywhere and you just plug in your laptop and go. There are no more
assigned seats. It's the same thing with predictable results though. People
are constantly sick, they complain about the interruptions (I had a guy doing
his kettle bell workout _at his desk_ across from me) and the struggle to
maintain concentration. The problem is, they've gone all in on the concept.
The company dropped millions of dollars in renovating the building so I don't
see a change any time soon. I just work from home now as often as possible.

~~~
uhhhhhhh
I wonder if I'm using the wrong terms.

I call open offices anything from "just tables" without any real dividers to
cubicles like this:
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/26/Gu...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/26/Gulf_Worldwide_Sales_%26_Marketing_Team.jpg/300px-
Gulf_Worldwide_Sales_%26_Marketing_Team.jpg)

I've seen some cubicles that are higher and appear to provide more privacy,
but I've never actually worked in one/for a company that uses them.

The company I work for now has the short cubicles. Noise isn't contained, and
a large number of people work with remote teams/employees and are constantly
on calls. Its a complete PITA.

I WFH as often as I can get away with, but my previous habits/skills of focus
and concentration have significantly deteriorated in all aspects of my life.
I'm actively working on ways to combat this, but I fear without a more
comprehensive lifestyle change my success will be limited. (thankfully the one
thing I can still do is disappear into a book for hours)

~~~
at-fates-hands
>> I wonder if I'm using the wrong terms.

Nah, you're using the correct terms.

One company I worked at had a bunch of octagon tables, pushed together and
your monitors would face each other. Another one, I had cubicles like the ones
you referenced and we were told it was an open office concept as well.

Another company I worked at had super high (like 8' high) cubicle walls for
their customer service people and other people (sales team, account managers)
who were on the phone constantly, which would be awesome for privacy and
noise. Ironically, all the developers sat at long picnic like tables, shoulder
to shoulder working, it was the worst. I only last a month before leaving
since it felt so much like a sweatshop.

------
darrenf
Article about/interview with the author of the blog here:
[https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jan/08/woolwich-
foo...](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jan/08/woolwich-foot-tunnel-
portals-of-london)

------
Angostura
I hope the SCP guys don't see this. They'll want to contain it, and I have to
walk through the thing about twice a week.

~~~
JorgeGT
On the plus side, they are always short of Class C personnel if you don't
mind.

~~~
Filligree
Class Cs are practically always criminals. There's never been any shortage of
them that I'm aware of, either.

~~~
Angostura
I think you're thinking of D-class.

~~~
stephengillie
"D" for "Disposable", these are supposedly death-row inmates. However, since
SCP has hundreds of thousands of D-class personnel, this claim is slightly
dubious.

------
3princip
Speaking of anomalies, tunnels and London. On the Piccadilly line between Hyde
Park Corner and Green Park it feels like the tube train takes forever while
going at great speed. Yet the distance is barely half a mile.

Mind you it has been a decade since I've taken the ride, but at the time it
puzzled me.

~~~
BuildTheRobots
There's a handful of stations on the tube where above ground they're but a few
minutes walk even though underground the train takes much longer (and I
believe I much more circuitous path). IIRC you can actually jump out at the
platform and run above ground to the next station before the train arrives.

Edit: Here's a guy racing the Circle Line from Mansion House to Cannon Street
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH_Z8Ghuq6E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH_Z8Ghuq6E)

~~~
memsom
I know than a lot of the lines had to follow weird quirky routes as they are
built under the roads, not the houses. This was something to do with the cost
of getting permission to build under other people's properties IIRC

~~~
pmarreck
No eminent domain law in the UK?

~~~
goodcanadian
Eminent domain comes from English common law. The crown ultimately owns
everything (i.e. holds eminent domain). Your "fee simple" property allows you
to hold rights in the property in perpetuity in exchange for a simple fee (as
opposed to a lease). The crown still holds eminent domain, however, and can
take it away. The "constitutional" part of "constitutional monarchy" does
create a process and establish compensation and such so that your rights can't
be taken away arbitrarily.

------
teekert
Hmm, so first the whizz through very fast -too fast-, then they are "down
there all day but is was still morning." Still, perhaps that's what an anomaly
about.

Nice story for around a camp fire.. Or a Star Trek episode.

~~~
jstanley
While there are some inconsistencies (why are the repairs behind schedule if
they can consume more time in the tunnel than passes outside?), the point you
brought up is perfectly consistent.

They feel like they're walking for 15 minutes in the tunnel, but pop out the
other end after only 1. They feel like they're working all day in the tunnel,
but pop out after being in there for less than an hour.

~~~
teekert
Haha, you're right indeed! How un-intuitive time anomalies are. They only seem
to whizz through in the time of the others of course.

------
nkrisc
But let me guess, it stops working once it's open to the public?

~~~
stronglikedan
Last line:

> The tunnel was re-opened in early 2012. No time-discrepancies have been
> reported since that date.

Hypothesis:

> There is some anecdotal evidence that temporary spaces, or spaces
> temporarily under a different use, lend themselves to time anomalies, and
> the Woolwich event would appear to support this.

------
tbabb
Some people in this thread seem to be taking this story at face value,
astoundingly. Let's be clear: "Time working differently inside the tunnel" is,
with 100% certainty, not was was going on.

More plausible (not mutually exclusive) explanations:

\- The workers messing with each other (and possibly their bosses) to have a
laugh and/or forge work hours

\- There was a bike hidden in the tunnel

\- The workers were coordinating with each other by radio or by phone

\- It didn't take as long to traverse the tunnel as people really thought

\- Without daylight cues, it became very easy to lose track of time

\- The workers were surprised or confused by ultimately ordinary
circumstances, and a mystical explanation spread and socially validated
itself, bolstered by the power of suggestion.

------
ageofwant
Reminded me of this old classic:
[http://www.rioranchomathcamp.com/Topology/SubwayNamedMobius....](http://www.rioranchomathcamp.com/Topology/SubwayNamedMobius.pdf)

------
arethuza
Only a matter of time before the author gets a job-offer-you-can't-refuse from
the Laundry.

------
joelhaasnoot
I guess I'll take the ferry next time ;) See
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73X6pur0rEk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73X6pur0rEk)
for more context.

------
andybak
On a related note I was glad to see this strange artefact of the internet was
still in existence. I contributed a small amendment probably nearly 10 years
ago: [http://www.entrances2hell.co.uk/](http://www.entrances2hell.co.uk/)

~~~
andybak
Found it:
[http://entrances2hell.co.uk/page322.html](http://entrances2hell.co.uk/page322.html)

Sadly the comments have vanished but I pointed out the photo was actually
taken in Crystal Palace (I know that spot well as it's where the old derelict
High Level Railway Station used to be - a place I explored in my youth:
[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/07/see-inside-the-
se...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/07/see-inside-the-secret-
victorian-station-left-abandoned-in-london/)

I sent in a comment pointing out the anomaly and offered an explanation in
keeping with the back story such as it is.

------
alex_hitchins
I now intend to get desk and some CAT-5e down there.

~~~
zentiggr
Careful with the NTP syncing...

~~~
eesmith
Or 50Hz power, or power at all, for that matter.

Or mobile signal.

~~~
alex_hitchins
I'll get a small rack and be completely self sufficient down there. I'll just
make code deployments by CD-ROM via the lift.

Like a binary dumb-waiter.

~~~
KirinDave
Considering that thing come up before they leave, there are some fascinating
opportunities for new models of computing.

Wanna win every Bitcoin block?

------
peterwwillis
This is a wonderful example of slipstream fiction, similar to weird fiction.

------
LiamPa
Would explain why the clock is always wrong in those damn lifts.

------
yipopov
But who was phone?

