
I gave Amazon a key to my house and regretted it - eevilspock
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2017/12/07/amazon-wants-a-key-to-your-house-i-did-it-i-regretted-it/
======
mikeash
> [Amazon] says that it will “correct the problem” if your property gets
> damaged. (In the fine print, you also agree to arbitration, rather than a
> lawsuit, if something goes really wrong.)

This is such crap. If they really were committed to making things right in the
event of a problem, they wouldn't have to fear being sued. You want me to
believe that you'll protect my most valuable asset after I give you free
access to it, but you'll make me trust your good intentions and the judgment
of an arbitrator you probably picked?

Seems to me that the right to sue should be considered fundamental, and
binding arbitration should be made illegal.

~~~
drawkbox
> binding arbitration should be made illegal

Binding arbitration and non-competes, are both disgusting anti-business, anti-
American, anti-worker, anti-innovation, anti-rights that need to be killed.

These two horrible tactics have crept in since 2000 into nearly everything.

Signing away your right to compete and your right to use the legal system
should both be illegal and have no place in America. How did we let this
happen?

For non-competes, NDAs should suffice.

Arbitration should be a step towards legal rather than supplanting it. Many
times arbitration is better for both parties in terms of cost/time but when it
isn't people shouldn't be signing away the right into forced arbitration to go
further.

~~~
Latty
Arbitration, just like plea deals, are an obviously terrible idea that is
legal almost entirely because it reduces the cost of having trials. Less
trials is cheaper, which everyone running things likes.

Of course, that's trading justice for money, which most people would agree is
a terrible idea. Of course, that isn't reflected in the actual state of the
law.

~~~
tzs
> Arbitration, just like plea deals, are an obviously terrible idea that is
> legal almost entirely because it reduces the cost of having trials.

Arbitration is legal because of freedom of contract.

There is nothing "obviously terrible" about arbitration per se. When it is
included in a freely negotiated contract between parties of equal bargaining
power it is hard to find anything wrong with it.

The problem is when the parties do not have anywhere near equal bargaining
power.

~~~
ckocagil
>Arbitration is legal because of freedom of contract.

Indentured servitude is just contracting. Do you think it should be legal too?

~~~
tzs
I think my point may have not been clear. I was responding to someone who
offered a theory that it is legal because it reduces the cost of having
trials. The implication is that it was decided at some point that we should
allow it.

My point is that because it is implied by freedom of contract, it is by
default legal until we decide to make it illegal.

~~~
DugFin
> it is by default legal until we decide to make it illegal.

No, it's legal because of the Federal Arbitration Act passing in 1925. Prior
to that, waiving of such rights "in advance by agreement" was explicitly
disallowed, as SCOTUS determined in Insurance Company v. Morse (1874).

------
YuriNiyazov
Kind of a weird article - it's very long, describes in great detail how
everything works, and the regret is hidden about three quarters of the way
down, and I am still unclear about what the regret is. That he signed up to a
walled garden, and the key doesn't work when you want to share it with your
dog walker? The walled garden response is "you should've known as much" and
the dog walker response would be "this is version 1"

Anyway, this feels more like an ad for amazon key than a real takedown. Oh
wait... WaPo, Bezos... right.

~~~
endorphone
_Oh wait... WaPo, Bezos... right_

It states that right near the beginning of the article.

I'm cynical in a different way, though. I see this article as the sort of
turgid content that dominates tech media: Take some product or behavior that's
new, act like it's scary and milk some content out of it. The title itself is
simply _ridiculous_ \-- the regrets seem to be that the product is exactly
what it is held as.

It isn't for me. For some people heavily invested in the Amazon ecosystem it
might be a fine compromise.

~~~
unobtaniumstool
Used to be you could read tech news written by people who were both
knowledgable and enthusiastic about technology. Now it seems to be mostly
paranoid, technophobic clickbait.

~~~
tastythrowaway
maybe that's a reflection of their audience?

~~~
endorphone
In a way I absolutely think this is true, but it is more the way we consume
media now than our basic values changing.

Previously I had a few sites that I visited daily to read tech news. Media
properties where writers tried to keep a constant supply of entertaining and
illuminating articles that I give attention and focus to, even if
superficially not interesting, because I have trust that it's worth my time.

Now I instead rely upon social news and even Facebook feeds to supply the more
interesting articles, filtered and crowd "curated". In that gaudy world, you
need to show your legs and hoot and holler to get attention. So we end up with
this sort of media. We see the same thing with blogs where many of us
abandoned subscriptions and readers and just assume that the good content will
percolate into our view.

I don't think I'm alone in this behavior, and it has been negative to the
whole.

------
mabbo
> The company promises deliveries are only made by Amazon employees it thinks
> are trustworthy.

Amazon doesn't have employees delivering packages. They are all contractors,
and often contractors hired by contractors. The concerning thing about this is
that it literally means Amazon may have only learned the name of the person
who is accessing your home 30 minutes before they are inside it.

~~~
optimuspaul
I know for a fact that Amazon does employ package delivery people in my area.
They are not contractors or hired by contractors. Amazon fulfillment is a
massive organization.

~~~
mabbo
What makes you sure they aren't contractors? Ask them the next time you get a
delivery.

They may drive trucks with the Amazon logo; they may tell you they are
delivering for Amazon; they may be driving around with an app made by Amazon
that gives them step by step instructions of what to do. But they are not
legally employed by Amazon. Not in the US or UK. I spent some time as a part
of their software organization, and have been inside the delivery stations. As
far as I know, there are no employees delivering packages.

You can speculate as to why Amazon would want things setup this way. I don't
speak on the company's behalf.

~~~
optimuspaul
I did ask them, the guy I talked to was an Amazon employee. I wasn't just
assuming when I made the comment.

------
michaelbuckbee
A lot of comments are about other solutions (lockboxes, etc.) - these are
solutions for a problem Amazon doesn't have.

Amazon wants to own grocery delivery (put your milk in your fridge), they want
to own dog walking, they want to own plumbing and other house services.

The article's correct that this is the first step in a larger plan, and I
think at least fairly well thought out for that.

~~~
b0rsuk
I read about one of Arabic countries - I don't remember if it was the Emirates
or Saudi Arabia, but one of the big names. The newspaper article claimed
milkmen in that country walk into your house, take money lying on your fridge,
leave the change, put milk into your fridge, walk out. You typically leave
your house unlocked, the article claimed.

That's a problem the country doesn't have.

~~~
1024core
I think it used to be like this in America too. The milkman would walk into
your kitchen (via the back door, which was unlocked) and leave the milk in
your fridge.

~~~
mustacheemperor
I live in an old house in a cooler climate and my place and most of my
neighbors' have a special small two-way "cabinet" through the exterior wall in
the back where the milkman used to leave your delivery, sort of like a mailbox
built into your house.

------
bob_theslob646
Is Amazon liable if your packages get stolen? If that is the case, that could
explain why they want a "key" to your house.

Why else would this do this?

Oh, wait they are bleeding money.

>The amount of money that Amazon lost on shipping — a.k.a. the net cost of
landing all those brown boxes on your doorstep in record time — reached an
all-time high of nearly _$7.2 billion_ in 2016, according to GeekWire’s
analysis of the e-commerce giant’s financial results.

I would be curious to see another person's take on how much Amazon loses on
people stealing packages per year.

[1]([https://www.geekwire.com/2017/true-cost-convenience-
amazons-...](https://www.geekwire.com/2017/true-cost-convenience-amazons-
annual-shipping-losses-top-7b-first-time/))

~~~
fossuser
The article touches on another reason, with house access they can organize
services (house cleaning, dog walking etc.) that require access to the house.

~~~
jethro_tell
Yes, The low liability, ups/usps friendly way to do this is to turn that 7
billion into a bunch of little yellow metal boxes with a key pad. I bet a lot
of people who want the convenience would let them screw it to the front of the
house or down to the deck

~~~
reaperducer
They're halfway there. The yellow boxes are in most grocery stores in my area.
And there are green ones at Whole Foods.

Considering the USPS won't service individual house mailboxes in some parts of
the country anymore (only communal mailbox clusters up to a mile away), what's
the difference between getting a package from the USPS lockbox, or the Amazon
lockbox which is located at a place I was going anyway?

------
pavel_lishin
> _To share online access with family and friends, you have to give them a
> special code to SMS (yes, text) to unlock the door._

This makes sense - nearly everyone's phone can send an SMS. Having to install
an app just to unlock a door is an unnecessary barrier.

~~~
smileysteve
Except, SMS is incredibly insecure and can be easily spoofed.

~~~
swozey
If someone wants to break into your home they're going to break in through a
window/back door, etc. They aren't going to go through the hassle of spoofing
your number and generating an entry code when they can wrap their hand in a
sweatshirt and punch some glass.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
It depends surely on what they're after. If they want small electronic goods
to sell for drug money then they'll smash a window. If they want
identity/banking information so they can still the contents of your bank
account(s) then probably the SMS and number spoofing is better for them.

~~~
wingerlang
If they are that sophisticated, wouldn't they just smash the window take some
pictures of the information and steal a TV on the way out?

~~~
swozey
Yeah, exactly, my point was more "if someone wants to break in for anything
they're just going to break in." Hell, I had a credit card stolen out of my
mailbox and used around town last month.

Breaking into houses doesn't require Oceans 11 technology.

------
jessaustin
_I paid a locksmith $100 for a new strike plate..._

I had heard this was true, but now I have seen that there really are people
who can't use a screwdriver.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
It's not a lack of ability it's a lack of confidence with a side of liability.
See:

>which was Amazon’s recommendation.

Customer support and warranty become a massive pain in the ass if you're not a
professional. Amazon will fight tooth and nail not to work with a DIYer
because when their lock doesn't latch and someone gets killed in a burglary
they don't want to be the only first party with money when the lawyers start
going up the links in the chain. Obviously the risk is tiny but with a
professional installation they can point fingers at the locksmith and hope the
lawyers settle for whatever the locksmith's insurance can provide.

Being a DIYer in this day and age is a massive PITA "because liability"

~~~
linkregister
I have no exposure to this sentiment.

Everything I ever want to fix, an enterprising handyman has already made a
monetized YouTube video on. All the repairs I’ve done in the last 4 years have
been faster than waiting for a repairman. I use an expert’s video and parts
I’ve bought at a nearby hardware or auto parts store.

In the the past I slogged through radiator replacements by looking at a
Chilton manual. Now, an expert mechanic has created a step-by-step video with
all the gotchas that wouldn’t fit in a repai manual. This is the golden age of
DIY.

You know they have classes at Home Depot and Lowe’s for home repair, right?

~~~
noxToken
You're missing the point entirely. It's not about the difficulty in making a
change or a repair. It's about liability.

If you hire a locksmith, then you have reason to believe that someone was
professionally trained to fix the issue at hand. They may not do it any better
nor faster, but their job title implies that they know what they are doing by
the book.

A DIYer doesn't have that same set of credentials. You could be better than
any locksmith in your town, but you're still considered a hobbyist

------
glauque
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for consumerism, but if you got to the point where
the business you're buying products from has the key to your house just so you
can keep up with deliveries, maybe it's time to reconsider your spending
habits.

~~~
dr1337
And while you're at it maybe give them your bank account details so that they
can just sell you stuff that their AI thinks you want.

~~~
romanows
I do that with a monthly clothing service and it works pretty well, so I guess
YMMV.

------
siculars
Not in a million years. Now, if the EFF or Mozilla made a remotely accessible
digital lock that I could control with interfaces to whomever I want that
would be a different story.

~~~
squarefoot
You could make it yourself with cheap parts and some good engineering wrt
power failures etc. (don't make it electric only, real world ain't Star Trek).
The electromechanical lock is the most expensive part, but everything else can
be done with a *PI like board plus battery and an encrypted network
connection. If you don't have a fixed IP or are behind a firewall/NAT you can
automate a mail reader on the board to monitor an address for an encrypted
message containing a code to unlock the door, shoot a few images using a
webcam and mail them back to you, or do other things. Basically anything that
can be done by closing a switch a meter away can be also done a half planet
away through the Internet.

~~~
jessaustin
Actually the mechanism could be totally mechanical. You just want a
compartment with a delivery door and a trap door, which aren't both open at
the same time. See that in action at any big blue USPS mailbox.

------
illumin8
Why not just sell a lockbox that you can put on your front porch? Seems like
an easier solution.

~~~
IncRnd
Amazon isn't concerned with what customers want but what is fastest for their
deliveries. If they use the same app to open the door, and mark as delivered,
then a lockbox would increase the time per delivery.

Is there a delivery person for Amazon who can comment on this?

~~~
bootlooped
Why would it be harder to place an item behind a locked lid to a box than a
locked door to a house? If anything the box should be faster; if it were a
smart device it could easily be programmed to be unlocked or even ajar any
time it is empty.

~~~
IncRnd
I read, "a lockbox that you can put on your front porch," as a realtor-style
lockbox that holds a key to the house and needs a pin entered to get the key.
For what you wrote, it likely wouldn't have the same slowdown.

------
Saad_M
Is there a really need for this type of product? With the choice of either
collecting your parcel from a delivery office or the multitude of delivery
lockers that are popping up everywhere is this a problem that needs solving?
Perhaps someone could help me to understand if there are particular scenarios
where this would be beneficial to allow this form of parcel delivery.

~~~
Erik816
There is a huge convenience to getting your packages at your door rather than
having them shipped to a separate location. For a household with kids, we are
getting several deliveries a week. Things like diapers, wipes, food, etc. I'm
already used to just opening the door and picking them up, so driving
somewhere to get them really defeats the point of ordering them online. I
might as well just drive to Target instead.

~~~
wtetzner
I would rather buy a box with a lock on it that I can keep outside my front
door than let strangers (and Amazon) into my house.

~~~
unobtaniumstool
This is an odd but apparently widespread phobia.

Do you not have a housekeeper, or a landscaper, or dog walker, or anyone else
who goes into your house when you're not there? It's pretty common for service
personnel to be in a house doing stuff.

~~~
johnbrodie
A person or group of people that I've met personally and don't change often is
much different than letting a random low-paid employee/contractor into your
house.

~~~
aeorgnoieang
I'm guessing tho that lots of people don't have people they've met personally.
In fact, that seems like it would be pretty strong evidence of some kind of
illegal activity, e.g. employment tax evasion. I'd guess a good number of
people use a service that might sometimes, e.g. send someone other than the
regular person.

[I'm unsure why a landscaper would need to enter your home or apartment or
whatever.]

------
baxtr
Even though it claims to be critical, it is not that critical. I almost felt
that I’m reading an advertisement for an amazon product

~~~
corruptbytes
Probably because WaPo is owned by Amazon/Bezos

------
LinuxBender
I watch accounts get popped all the time in cloud providers. Is it a good idea
to bridge such risks to your home physical security?

~~~
IpV8
I watch windows get popped all the time on physical houses. Is it a good idea
to build windows into your house?

~~~
musage
When a window gets broken, you at least know someone was (or still is) there.

~~~
kinkrtyavimoodh
That is not a strong counter-argument. Causing damage is not inherent to
getting unauthorized entry into a house. A skilled lock-picker can open many
locks without destroying them.

~~~
jandrese
The crazy thing is, very few B&Es are done via picking the lock, even though
it's not a difficult skill. It's easier and faster to just hit the window with
a rock, grab some stuff, and run.

There is a public perception of these super-smart techno hackers that crack
all of these damn gizmos and rob you blind, but the reality is that most all
B&E is done by dumbass drug addicts who barely make anything on a haul and get
caught quickly. Even the more sophisticated ones use basically the same
tactics but also make sure to move to a different county every couple of
houses to avoid sitting in a jurisdiction for too long.

It's a high risk low reward game. Only the most desperate play it. Someone
smart enough to hack the system is smart enough to have many better ways of
making money. Even if someone sells a kit for dummies to do this it's still
more work than picking up a rock.

~~~
simplyluke
> It's easier and faster to just hit the window with a rock, grab some stuff,
> and run

Or put a quick kick to the door. The idea that a hollow door with a inch of
metal hanging onto the frame is going to stop someone is laughable. Most homes
aren't secure.

------
RichieAHB
I just don’t understand why you’d put one of these _on your house_ rather than
a garage, outhouse, box. Or get things delivered to work or to a neighbour.
There are some cases where this isn’t possible but I think you could spend the
same money on a solution that doesn’t grant access to your whole house, even
using the smart lock. Additionally, this seems to create a commonly accepted
situation where anyone who looks like a delivery driver can have a go at a
front door without anyone batting an eyelid.

It seems like there’s nothin people won’t give up for Amazon. We’ll have the
Amazon “Cold and Flu Check” next where you have to photograph yourself naked
and upload the images to S3.

------
gebeeson
I've thought about this service and what I could do moving forward for better
security. A front door airlock came to mind; front Amazon Keyed door that
leads to an alcove that is in front of another locked door. Big enough for
packages and maybe a couple adults. Unsure if the effort would be worth it
however. Just a thought game.

~~~
jcl
As far as security goes, a problem with "airlocks" is similar to a problem
with attached garages: It's easier to get into them than directly into the
house, and once you are in them, they can provide cover for a more concerted
effort to get into the house. An Amazon-Key-like system may mitigate the risk,
of course, assuming that the users of the app are properly vetted and that
attackers are deterred by cameras.

------
Sohcahtoa82
I just use the Amazon Locker service. There's a set of Amazon Lockers at a
convenience store I pass by on my way home from work. Super easy to use and I
never have to worry about packages being stolen.

The only downside is that large packages or items from 3rd party sellers can't
be shipped to a locker.

~~~
FireBeyond
I use a smart home security system (AT&T Digital Life). Not without its flaws,
and not automated but I can, as soon as I see tracking info in Amazon (or
wherever) update delivery instructions with a one time door lock code for
their drivers. This works with UPS, USPS, FedEx, whomever. When my company
shipped me a fully loaded iMac and Cinema screen, while I was 100 miles away,
this was perfect. I got a notification on my phone that the door was opened, I
could see how long they were inside, and could verify that it was locked
after.

~~~
maxxxxx
Not bad!

------
balls187
> They don’t recommend Key if you have pet, and won’t come in if they hear
> barking.

Two beagles means this is a non-starter for my household, as they immediately
will bark if a stranger approaches the driveway.

~~~
fenwick67
About 56% of US households had pets in 2011.

That's a huge chunk of customers they're missing out on.

~~~
r00fus
I get the feeling that Amazon is indifferent to "missing out". The approach is
to throw stuff on the wall and see what sticks.

Think of Amazon Key as your average tech startup that has Amazon branding.

~~~
balls187
See what sticks, iterate and improve.

For those with pets, get your own Amazon Locker installed on your porch...

------
GuiA
Amazon’s end goal is that any consumer purchase you make happens as follows:
you say (think?) “hey Alexa I want $ITEM” - anywhere you are - and a few hours
later at most, $ITEM is in your house, perhaps even in your fridge if
applicable. Maybe Amazon didn’t make $ITEM, maybe they don’t employ the truck
driver/make the drone who drops it off, but they’re the ones getting your
money.

They’re doing extremely well at it so far, but it’s kind of terrifying that
such a capitalism singularity is plausible.

An HN commenter a while back made the parallel between Amazon and Weyland-
Yutani from Alien, which is quite apt.

------
gnicholas
Does anyone know how people are supposed to use these if they have a home
alarm? This obviously won't work if your alarm is armed, unless you give
Amazon your alarm code.

I've asked a few friends who have an alarm system and they said they would not
give out the code if it's going to be passed along to delivery people (who
could break into the house later and then disable the alarm).

But I guess not enough people have alarms for Amazon to be worried about this?
Or perhaps this is aimed more at urban apartment-dwellers, who are less likely
to have security systems?

------
freedomben
The vendor and ecosystem walled garden lock-in is getting utterly insane. I
kind of blame Apple for starting this. They were so successful that other tech
companies realized they had to do it too.

------
thisisit
> The bad news is Amazon missed four of my in-home deliveries and charged me
> (on top of a Prime membership) for gear that occasionally jammed and makes
> it awkward to _share my own door with people, apps, services — and, of
> course, retailers — other than Amazon._

I don't understand this. Are there any APIs for Amazon key which will allow
other people/apps to use the key? If yes, how do the damages work?

~~~
icebraining
I'm assuming you could use the SMS codes. At the homeowner's responsibility,
of course.

------
yipopov
>The Amazon Cloud Cam live streams and archives deliveries with Amazon Key

Are they absolutely crazy? The camera obviously needs to be operated
independently from Amazon, being able to be remotely switched on or off by the
very people it's supposed to watch completely defeats its purpose.

------
LearnerHerzog
Anyone else find the whole setup strikingly similar to HAL-9000's role in
_2001: A Space Odyssey_? The article, too, presented the author with the same
issue _Dave_ experienced, when HAL wouldn't open the pod bay doors
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARJ8cAGm6JE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARJ8cAGm6JE)

HAL's decision was a conscious one, but I find it rather interesting a
1960s-Kubrick (& Arthur C. Clarke) could predict the casual use of multiple
_currently_ -cutting-edge devices, and incorporate them into the story: \- One
being HAL's resemblance to a new amazon smart-home, at least in general
purpose functionally, plus the vibe of sentience and omnipresence \- Another
prediction being realtime face-to-face chat as shown in one scene, which would
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWwo6JpMceg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWwo6JpMceg)

Naturally this makes me wonder if artificial consciousness is possible or not
(be it X years/decades/centuries into the future), what fundamental questions
it may answer, and what consequences it may have. I am not necessarily
referring to the consequences of recursively self-improving super-
intelligence, but not excluding it either I suppose. I am referring to true
consciousness, with human-level feelings and emotions, where the personality
may have an effect on what it does rather than simply and emotionlessly taking
the logical (or programmed) route every time.

Creation of artificial consciousness may be many steps away from trying to
undertake; however, given the ever-accelerating rate of both digital-tech and
neuroscience, _if_ true consciousness is at all possible to program, it will
likely come far sooner than expected. It's bound to also answer a lot of
questions about our ontological understanding of our own perception in/of
realities.

In any case, by the grace of God and Elon Musk, let's hope we can avoid a
Hollywood catastrophe in the upcoming rise of AI in general through the end of
time as far as collective consciousness is concerned.

------
carlob
In most of Europe AFAIK deliveries are never left at the door, and the
deliveryperson calls you shortly before stopping to check that you are at
home. In this scenario if I owned a smartlock I could just open the door
remotely for them, no need to buy their lock and app.

~~~
xaedes
Please be more specific than "most of europe". As you are talking out of
experience, you can just say where that happened. At least in Germany no
delivery person will call me to check whether I am home.

~~~
3princip
I'm in Serbia and deliverymen always call. There are multiple private courier
services, having gotten to know a lot of the drivers they'll sometimes bring
me the package to a different location if I'm not home but reasonably close.
Online purchases here are mostly paid at point of delivery, in cash if one
wishes. So the delivery driver also handles the payment. Hence, they can take
some liberties with delivery since the goods haven't been payed for in
advance.

The cash on delivery and flexibility of couriers is one of the few services
that work quite well here, compared to some more developed countries.

------
matt_morgan
This is not about making it easier to get deliveries. When an Amazon delivery
doesn't work out, they refund you. This is about reducing Amazon's costs.
Don't do it. As long as we all don't do it, Amazon will credit us when
deliveries fail.

~~~
graylights
This makes no sense as a cost reduction. Amazon drivers in my area don't even
come to my door. Let alone knock. With this they want their drivers to: 1\.
Come to door 2\. Knock 3\. Wait a moment for response 4\. Unlock door with app
5\. Open Door 6\. Drop package 7\. Close and lock door

Delivery has turned into minimizing every excess second. I wager within a few
months most of these amazon keys will be ignored as they leave packages on the
driveway. I wouldn't buy this unless it comes with a guarantee it will be
used.

~~~
bob_theslob646
It does make sense for cost reduction because they are liable if they lose the
package

------
nathan_long
TL;DR - expect vendor lock-in when a vendor puts your lock in.

> The Key-compatible locks are made by Yale and Kwikset, yet don’t work with
> those brands’ own apps. They also can't connect with a home-security system
> or smart-home gadgets that work with Apple and Google software.

> And, of course, the lock can’t be accessed by businesses other than Amazon.
> No Walmart, no UPS, no local dog-walking company.

------
esturk
Amazon practices have become more and more shady and fraud riddled. Just today
I found out I was charged for Amazon Cloud Drive that I never authorized for 2
years and they only reversed the charge for the most recent year. I never
agreed nor made any consent to signing up to the enlarged storage service. I
was never notified my subscription was renewed nor was I aware I was charged
through any email.

They absolutely refused to refund me for a purchase I never authorized! How
corrupted is that?

------
dudul
Is package theft such a widespread problem? I've never had a package stolen
from me. I've lived in apartment buildings, single/two-family houses and that
never happened to me.

------
mythrwy
No such thing as bad publicity?

Probably lots of people didn't about Amazon Key. Read the scary headline
expecting burglary or orgy in the bedroom only to learn nothing all that
terrible happened. A few delivery windows got missed. A lock didn't work at
some point. With numerous positive things sprinkled in, and things that are
coming. Oh but the author doesn't like that. "Who cares?" you are supposed to
say. "Packages get delayed all the time! Sign me up".

------
jlebrech
i prefer undelivery, aka leaving it in the closest depot in the same city or
town for the recipient to pick at their convenience, for example amazon
lockers.

~~~
rabidonrails
so, like a store. I think that the reason I use Amazon is for the shipping
convenience.

~~~
amaranth
More like how Sears used to work but with more locations so you don't have to
go (as far) out of your way on your commute from work. You order stuff from a
vast catalog (Amazon website) and then when it's available you go pick it up.
The advantage is the selection of goods and that you don't have to actually do
the shopping. No hunting through aisles and such, just in and out.

~~~
ensignavenger
Like the way Walmart works?

~~~
yeukhon
No. This is how major retail stores do these days... Maycs' Best Buy.

------
qq66
Not sure that any of this crap is needed in the suburbs. Just have a smart-
locked container and refrigerator outside your front door.

~~~
loeg
Don't even need the smart-locked container or refrigerator.

------
amptorn
Alright, here's my idea: Amazon Locker Personal. Same principle as an Amazon
Locker, but it's a single locker and you put it outside your house. Such
things already exist, the only difference is that this one would be locked all
the time and only the delivery person would be able to unlock it.

~~~
nickonline
So a box with a unlocked padlock on it?

~~~
amptorn
No. Do you know how an Amazon Locker works?

------
EADGBE
All the anti-Amazon Key articles mention the "service" costing $250.

I must not be seeing it all.

You get an indoor security camera, and a smart deadbolt for $250, right?

=====================================================

 _I paid a locksmith $100 for a new strike plate, which was Amazon’s
recommendation._

LOL!

------
uptown
Somewhat off-topic, but is anybody using an external security webcam for their
home that they'd recommend? Every review I've read seems to have very
conflicting opinions. What's good? Ring? Arlo? Nest? Home-Grown w/ Raspberry
Pi?

~~~
gehwartzen
Personally I threw up some Samsung wired cams and am happy. Easy to view
online and records locally for 3 months or so.

~~~
uptown
Is there a way to view from a mobile device and also receive motion detection
alerts?

~~~
gehwartzen
Yup, there's a mobile app and motion detecting alerts (with defined areas).

~~~
uptown
Thanks for the info

------
pteredactyl
Why anyone would ever do this is beyond me. Same with Alexa-like devices.

------
kuceram
Maybe [https://mailhaven.co/](https://mailhaven.co/) is an alternative for
you. It's a mailbox for packages basically.

------
kazinator
This is just the plight of an early adopter. Eventually, the idea will develop
into something generic without vendor-lock-in, and something reliable.

------
dimpadumpa
How in earth people can trust multibillion companies ?? They Loe, cheat,
violate privacy and you cannot prevent it.

Please, people don't mess your home security !!

~~~
gr3yh47
Digital security is long dead so just dont use smart- _anything_ if you aren't
ok with it being pwned

------
b0rsuk
tl;dr: Amazon wants to be the Facebook of your home. Decide who and on what
terms can access your data. Physical data. Trusted Amazon partners will have
an advantage. Others will be excluded.

Actually I think this is not as bad as Facebook, because it's much less
abstract and average Joes can wrap their head around it, and I think benefits
are not as seductive as in FB's case. So I expect Amazon Key to fail.

------
vermontdevil
Anyone have recommendations for a good keyless lock? Seems the one Amazon uses
has bad reviews on Amazon.

~~~
chrismbarr
If you want to use Amazon Key (what this article is about) then I think the
only lock you can use is this specific one. Any other keyless lock system
won't work from Amazon deliveries like this (at least as far as I can tell)

~~~
DerfNet
I explicitly don't want to use Amazon Key, but would like a keyless lock as
keyed locks are basically a _minor inconvenience_ for even an amateur lock
picker, but a 5 key pin would take days or weeks to brute force.

Looks like a Schlage Touch might be the best option out there. Numeric keypad,
no key hole, and has no radio connectivity of any kind to be tampered with.

------
jrgaston
Amazon is my store of last resort. I prefer to support local businesses even
when they charge more.

------
polock
I think it's such crap. Who care's if they stole or broke something under the
radar?

------
alvil
Regret nothing. You are simply idiot :D

------
vishalzone2002
why not just have 2 doors with some space in between for deliveries :p

~~~
ng-user
I think the term you're looking for is a 'vestibule'

------
elvirs
clickbait title about nothingburger

------
wehadfun
Washington post did a negative article about Amazon?

~~~
creaghpatr
Controlled opposition, to be exact

~~~
Dirlewanger
Yeah, don't expect any articles about how this company upends and ends up
virtually owning almost every industry it enters, making the Rockefellers and
Carnegies of yester-century red with envy, and how it won't stop any time
soon.

------
idooontcare
Hard to believe that people really mess with they home security like this..
haha

------
dailyvijeos
The longer-term solutions to home delivery are refrigerated and non-
refrigerated storage pods with universal app access. These can either be built
into a house / garage or be free-standing. This reduces the risks of having
delivery people enter your home, which is a bad idea.

Also, in general, in tort-happy America, delivery people and other field
workers should always wear bodycams to prove they were in the right because
random people can and do make up convincing stories to file lawsuit$.

~~~
KSS42
Kind of like old houses with milk and coal delivery hatches?

