

New DNA Results Show Kennewick Man Was Native American - Mz
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/19/science/new-dna-results-show-kennewick-man-was-native-american.html

======
stephengillie
> _When Dr. Willerslev and his colleagues looked at the Colville DNA, they
> found that it was the closest match to Kennewick Man among all the samples
> from Native Americans in the study._

> _The DNA of the Colville tribe contains Asian-like pieces of DNA not found
> in Kennewick Man. They may have gained that genetic material by having
> children with the Arctic peoples._

> _“We were hesitant,” said Mr. Boyd, of the Colville Tribes. “Science hasn’t
> been good to us.” Eventually, the Colville agreed to join the study; the
> other four tribes did not._

It's a shame that a history of distrust has developed. It sounds like we could
extensively map out migration patterns of our pre-historic fellow humans, if
their DNA were available. What nefarious purposes can you further by using
someone else's DNA?

~~~
Mz
_What nefarious purposes can you further by using someone else 's DNA?_

Perhaps you have not seen the movie "The last of his kind" which maps out how
we hunted Indians to extinction or casually exposed them to deadly infections,
like small pox, that wiped out entire tribes and then, afterwards, piled their
skulls up in our museums to study so as to satisfy our scientific curiosity.

Why should Native Americans trust white scientists?

~~~
stephengillie
Would they trust Native American scientists?

Are they satisfied with their current histories? Do they not really care much
to know how their ancestors moved across the continents?

~~~
orthecreedence
You're coming at this from a white man's perspective. "I can't possibly see
what they have against knowing their history!"

Try coming at it from the Native American perspective. Almost every thing the
white man has ever told them has been a lie. From trade deals to war treaties.
The white man took their lands by force and trickery and soon had them living
in reservations or participating in death marches.

Of course natives are going to be skeptical when white scientists tell them
their history...history which they have their own cultural representation of.
As modern western folk, we like to view the world with our scientific lens,
and view what we see through it as the truth. But our science is no more truth
than light bouncing off an object is the object itself.

Natives have their own account of their history. It's no more or less
important than our account of their history, but our version is certainly
going to be met with some (rightful) skepticism.

~~~
stephengillie
I'm trying to come from the perspective of someone who values data over no
data. But you're right, I can't just shed my privileged perspective.

It seems like the point being indirectly communicated (somewhat by you, but
also by other posters on this page), is that the concepts of "Aborigines
Native American" and "Scientist" are incompatible. Like, it's a role that
exists in our society, but not in theirs. Or something like that, their
culture doesn't value that kind of information. I don't wish to offend out of
my own ignorance of others' cultures.

~~~
orthecreedence
I see where you're coming from, and have a few responses

> someone who values data over no data

I'm saying natives are most likely viewing passed down cultural history as
data just as much as historic DNA, but in the case of DNA, the data comes from
a historically untrustworthy source. I think it's sad that the suspicion
exists between the "white man" and the native people. I have roots in both so
I see the issue from your side as well: there's perfectly good data that could
help natives tell their story, should they choose to use it.

> their culture doesn't value that kind of information

This is an interesting point. I'm actually not aware of how advanced science
is in native cultures, or how much of a drive there is to have advanced
science. I know in general there is a resistance to losing their culture. But
maybe there are people in various tribes who would jump at the chance to
access DNA information from a long lost ancestor.

> I don't wish to offend

I don't think you offended anyone at all as much sparked interesting
conversation. A lot of what makes this issue interesting is that there are
several different cultural perspectives looking at one thing from many
different angles. I think in this case nobody is right or wrong, we all have
access to the same information and are drawing separate conclusions.

------
drcube
Regarding the whole burial aspect -- the guy was already buried! With a
ceremony according to his own religious beliefs as he practiced them, not
whatever religion descendents 8 millennia distant currently practice.
Shouldn't they just put him back where they found him?

~~~
yellowapple
It sounds like he actually drifted away from his original burial spot.

------
SCAQTony
I understand that white supremacists were using the Kennewick man to prove
whites somehow "owned" America first and that one particular supremacist
"religion" (I won't name it) was suing to keep them if they were of European
ancestry.

[http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&...](http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&file_id=5664)

Looks like the the simplest answer, (walking across the land bridge) is
building up a huge preponderance of evidence.

~~~
pcrh
There was a claim that evidence of earlier human habitation than the Bering
Strait migration had been found in Brazil [1]. I am not sure how the evidence
has held-up to further scrutiny (there are issues surrounding dating of the
petroglyphs found), but this article [2] has some discussion and nice pictures
of the caves and petroglyphs.

An independent migration to S. America, most likely from Africa, is obviously
possible, even if that population later died out. Consider that Madagascar was
initially populated by people from the South China Sea, a claim initially met
with much incredulity.

[1]
[http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/28/world/americas/discoveries...](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/28/world/americas/discoveries-
challenge-beliefs-on-humans-arrival-in-the-americas.html?_r=0)

[2]
[http://www.rockartscandinavia.com/images/articles/brazila9.p...](http://www.rockartscandinavia.com/images/articles/brazila9.pdf)

------
dang
Url changed from [http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/kennewick-man-
finally-...](http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/kennewick-man-finally-
freed-share-his-secrets-180952462), which is a dupe of
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8223448](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8223448),
to the recent news about the Kennewick man.

I think this is the first time we've made a url swap like this, but given that
there is genuine news about the same topic, it seems better than burying it as
a dupe like we normally would.

~~~
Mz
I can't win for losing. :-) I was looking for something more substantive and
HN-worthy than the Fox News coverage of this story:
[http://www.foxnews.com/science/2015/06/19/dna-
says-8500-year...](http://www.foxnews.com/science/2015/06/19/dna-
says-8500-year-old-kennewick-man-closely-related-to-native-americans/)

I was living in the Tri-cities when Kennewick Man was found. We were living in
a rental in Richland, but my husband's duty station was the Kennewick
recruiting office behind the mall. I don't normally pay much attention to the
news, but this was exciting stuff. Also, I have a smidgeon of Native American
blood (Cherokee, in my case) so news about Kennewick Man hits close to home
for me.

Thanks for updating.

