
Microsoft Announces Windows 10 Pro for Workstations - rbanffy
https://blogs.windows.com/business/2017/08/10/microsoft-announces-windows-10-pro-workstations/#OgokWKBsrtyK89BY.97
======
mdek
Will this address the absurd automatic updates/reboot "feature"? I've had the
experience multiple times where a step away for a few minutes and come back to
a blank desktop, even during the "active hours" period. This is especially
infuriating when I do most of my work in a vbox slackware VM and win10 is just
a host that I want to stay out of the way; instead I lose my entire current
state. This seems like a major defect for either a "Pro" or "Pro for
Workstations" version

Has anyone found a _reliable_ way to disable automatic reboots for Windows 10
Pro? My registry mods have all eventually stopped working.

~~~
tokenizerrr
Rebooting your computer daily will do the trick. Either shut it down at the
end of the day, or give it a reboot. It will do its thing and leave you alone
for the next 24 hours.

Before you downvote me, which many of you have done already for some reason,
please keep in mind that this advice actually works. It's not my decision to
have things work like this. That's on Microsoft. But it does work, and is
legitimate advice.

~~~
silly_giraffe
Except for us crazy individuals that need the computer on for uninterrupted
data processing. I have Windows only software that can take two weeks to
complete a dataset. There is no intermediate data backup, so if the job is
killed, I have to start over. My only reliable option has been to keep it off
the network.

~~~
criddell
This is a prime use case for a workstation and it's hard for me to believe
that Microsoft didn't expose better control over updates.

More than a few times, I've come to work, wiggled my mouse and been greeted
with a blank desktop. It's soooo frustrating that I need to spend the first 15
minutes of my day launching applications, loading projects, digging up notes,
etc... when it was all arranged perfectly just a few hours ago. Windows can
figure out my likely work hours. How hard would it be for them to pop up a
reminder that the machine will be rebooted overnight and give me some options?

On top of that, after the reboot, Microsoft reinstalls all the bloat that I
removed -- money, bing, xbox, groove, contacts, email, weather, maps, news,
and others. All of them have bugs, all consumer resources, and all probably
make my machine less secure.

~~~
b3lvedere
Oh yeah. On top of the fresh bloat it also reset lots of registry entries and
other hidden features. Not a fan of that.

~~~
criddell
Very true. When I see things like the contacts app reappear, I know it's time
to go through the privacy settings because Microsoft invariably resets many of
them.

~~~
b3lvedere
It's absolutely not the best tool in the world, but this one helps me a lot:
[https://www.winprivacy.de/english-home/](https://www.winprivacy.de/english-
home/)

------
fauigerzigerk
Users are asking for features, not for yet more editions of Windows. Editions
are merely a way to charge for those features and I don't think they are a
good way to do that.

Editions create barriers. They make you work around missing features that
would force you into buying a much more expensive edition, so you learn to
live without those features or replace them with other operating systems and
free software.

~~~
pjmlp
Agreed, there should only be Ubuntu.

~~~
fauigerzigerk
Or Microsoft could use a pricing model that doesn't drive customers away
needlessly.

~~~
pjmlp
Away to where?

You mean the year of the Linux Desktop Workstation?

~~~
fauigerzigerk
Some will use Linux or Mac or a cloud based solution where possible (such as
for GPGPU), but by far the most popular alternative to the latest and greatest
Windows is some older, lesser Windows that doesn't create excitement or lock-
in.

~~~
pjmlp
Not at all around the enterprise customers I work with.

No Macs in sight, other than some shared machines for iOS development,
GNU/Linux is left for server development and everyone else is on Windows per
IT policy..

And when I happen to attend a GDC related event, there are only Windows and OS
X devices on sight.

Some of those Mac laptops are actually running Windows.

~~~
fauigerzigerk
As I said, by far the most popular alternative is an "older, lesser Windows",
which is almost synonymous with "enterprise".

I think Microsoft makes some great software that isn't getting used as much as
it could be.

------
arca_vorago
Microsoft had been testing my patience for a while, but Windows 10 was the
straw that broke the camels back. I no longer support or use Windows and am a
happier/healthier person for it. Ya'll should try it too!

Microsoft is not a good faith actor in the software world, at all. All the
"open-source" push they have been doing of late to stem the tide reeks of the
90's... and what frustates me the most is people are so apologetic for them
and seem to have forgotten how anti-FOSS they were and are.

The three E's still apply. Don't be fooled.

For those of you who are pragmatic, the place to start is by replacing your AD
servers with Samba4. You can then at least get it off your servers even if you
still have to support Windows users.

~~~
cm2187
I wish I could do the same but I don't have the time to relearn everything
from scratch. Did you use any specific resources in transitioning from windows
to linux?

~~~
rbanffy
It really depends on what you do, what you work on. System administration is
very different, as is GUI development. Other things aren't that different and
a lot of back-end, devops-ish, trendy stuff is cross-platform.

~~~
cm2187
I sort of like to play with everything: virtualisation, websites, desktop
development. Which is why that's quite a lot to learn, and not a trivial
exercise without a GUI.

In fact if it wasn't for the disaster that windows 10 has become, I would
rather stay in the MS environment. Visual Studio/.net/C#/VB.net are a treat,
and I am concerned I won't find tools and languages that are that integrated
and polished in the linux world.

~~~
rbanffy
About desktop development, you will need to consider your clients. If you
develop for Windows clients, then probably you'll be better off running Visual
Studio, even if inside a VM. If you develop for other platforms or write code
that does not depend on Windows API's, you are pretty much free to use
anything. Eclipse, NetBeans, IntelliJ etc don't change between platforms.

The bulk of virtualization is the concepts - virtual networks, disks etc. You
can learn a new UI rather easily.

I am not sure what is the situation on .NET web development for other OSs, but
I keep hearing Microsoft is doing a great job with that.

I am mostly web these days and all my tools work pretty well under Windows
(even though the last time I did it I used Cygwin because it was well before
the Ubuntu on Windows thing).

------
4ad
I don't need this. What I need is a legal way to acquire Windows 10 Long Term
Support Branch. Basically Windows 10 without all the crap. No metro, and no
feature updates whatsoever, just security updates, and supported for 10 years.
Sort of like a Windows version of RHEL, if you will.

Now _that_ is something that I want.

To play a numbers game, I'd pay $500 for that if it came with HyperV and the
possibility of creating VMs for development with no extra licensing cost.
Maaybe $700.

~~~
cm2187
You are getting close to a MSDN license

[https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/d/visual-studio-
profes...](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/d/visual-studio-professional-
subscription/dg7gmgf0dst3/0001)

~~~
4ad
Well $539/yr is not quite the same as $500 for life. Plus, MSDN software
should only be used for development, using it e.g. as a workstation would
technically be a violation, albeit one that is unenforceable. And yes, I am
aware that if you install it in the first year, it will continue to work long
after your MSDN license has expired.

My interest is not in "getting it", or "keeping it working", but rather doing
everything 100% legally, not through loopholes. Otherwise I might just as well
get a Windows 10 LTSB MSDN license key for $25 from people who illegally sell
MSDN keys on reddit.

However, I am pleasantly surprised that there is a MSDN tier that only costs
$539/yr instead of the $10000/yr (!) it used to cost. Also, apparently now
MSDN is available for anyone, previously you had to enter into some kind of
business contract with Microsoft, it wasn't available to individuals.

~~~
cm2187
Nah you don't need to renew it. You pay $1200 upfront and it comes with a
bunch of license keys, each allowing multiple activations, that you get to
keep even if you do not renew the subscription. Renewal is only if you want a
key for future versions of windows (Windows 11?), which there won't be
according to Microsoft. The catch is that the license prevents you from using
it as a main/production machine, it's for dev, testing and demo only.

~~~
4ad
Yes, see my rather extensive edit.

It's only $539, though. The cheaper MSDN tier seems to include LTSB according
to the product matrix.

~~~
cm2187
Which tier are you refering to? I thought VS Pro was the cheapest option.

~~~
4ad
Ah, it's _cloud subscription_ vs _standard subscription_.

This is the proper link:
[https://www.visualstudio.com/vs/pricing/](https://www.visualstudio.com/vs/pricing/)

So it's $539/yr for cloud vs. $1,199/1st yr + $799/2nd yr for standard.

Also on the same page we can see the differences:

> After the subscription expires, can use the software that was available
> during the active subscription term (“perpetual” use rights)

For standard it's YES, for cloud it's NO. It seems to be enforced, because
lower on the page:

> Must connect to the Internet to check license status at least once every 30
> days

For standard we have NO, and for cloud we have YES.

So unfortunately, you are right. It's $1,199 (more or less), not $539.

~~~
cm2187
In your link the "Software for dev/test" is blank for cloud subscriptions. It
comes with TFS licenses but I do not believe it comes with Windows licenses,
even for the period of the subscription.

------
stephengillie
> _Faster file sharing: Windows 10 Pro for Workstations includes a feature
> called SMB Direct, which supports the use of network adapters that have
> Remote Direct Memory Access (RDMA) capability. Network adapters that have
> RDMA can function at full speed with very low latency, while using very
> little CPU._

Interesting to see file copy speeds mentioned. "Drag-and-drop" file copy has a
known bottleneck that other methods (robocopy, copy-item, etc) do not have,
and I wonder if this improvement will improve all copy methods, or just "Drag-
and-drop".

Also interested in the security considerations for having DMA (Direct memory
access) to a remote PC for SMB. Presumably this would be for authenticated
users/sessions. Yet SMB has been a recently-leveraged protocol for ransomware
attacks.

~~~
youdontknowtho
SMB 3 hasn't been part of the ransomeware attacks. It was SMB 1. SMB 3 can use
RDMA and is insanely fast. I'm not sure how SMB over RDMA is supposed to work
on a workstation, though. It's only been used for file servers and clusters at
this point.

------
Zekio
Another version of Windows... they really should consider reducing the amount
of versions instead of increasing it

~~~
Numberwang
Same with linux distros. Variety is unproductive.

~~~
throwaway7645
Most distros are geared to different things like Arch Linux is bare-
bones...etc. You are correct that there are plenty of distros where the main
difference is the default desktop environment like cinnamon or kde and that
isn't super helpful and fractures the community.

~~~
Accacin
> Arch Linux is bare-bones...etc

No, it isn't. But I get the general idea.

~~~
0xTJ
The commenter's point was that it comes bare-bones. There is very little
installed on a stock Arch installation. Unlike a distro like Ubuntu, Mint,
etc., which are some of the most common desktop distros and come with a large
variety of packages, Arch's install file is shockingly small, and the base
packages themselves are very limited.

~~~
Accacin
The default Arch install is about 700Mb. How is that shockingly small? If you
do a minimal install on most distro's you'll get something similar. Probably
less, as Arch bundles all it's packages together and you can't chose to, for
example, not install the dev packages.

I use the OS myself, so I'm not hating on Arch linux but the misinformation
spread about Arch is crazy.

------
PascLeRasc
Will my Windows 10 Workstation still give me ads for Minecraft and Candy
Crush?

~~~
trendia
I paid for Windows 10 Pro and had to spend time removing all the adware they
push. It's extremely unprofessional.

~~~
SippinLean
It's annoying, sure, but I unchecked a couple checkboxes once and haven't
thought about it since.

------
cJ0th
dear microsoft,

would you kindly consider going easy on the buzzwords?

> Performance is a very important requirement in this new world of fast paced
> innovation and we will continue to invest on Windows 10 Pro for Workstations
> to enable Windows power users to maximize every aspect of their high-
> performance device.

~~~
b3lvedere
[http://lurkertech.com/buzzword-bingo/dilbert-
buzzword.jpg](http://lurkertech.com/buzzword-bingo/dilbert-buzzword.jpg)

------
floatboth
> ReFS (Resilient file system)

Not new? Maybe it's now available for boot drives during installation? But I
just formatted a hard drive to ReFS on my normal W10 Pro install.

> non-volatile memory modules (NVDIMM-N)

Ooh that's interesting, is that the software support for the upcoming Optane
DIMMs?

~~~
0xTJ
I'm not completely sure, but I'm assuming that this means instant complete
hibernation, without having to write to disk?

------
DougWebb
It sounds like it's just regular Windows 10 with a few new device drivers and
a different default filesystem.

------
Zekio
Just remembered doesn't OneDrive only support NTFS right now?

~~~
midnitewarrior
If that's the case, could you create a small NTFS partition and host it on
there?

~~~
Zekio
IIRC it just requires the location you select for it to store the onedrive
folder at to be on a NTFS partition

------
frou_dh
Will existing W10 Pro license holders be able to use this? Or is it the
deluxe++ version for more $$$?

~~~
midnitewarrior
The people who need this are people with multiple CPUs, doing CAD/CAM,
professional video rendering. If you are doing these things, you are likely
paying for some high dollar licenses for special software anyway, and can
afford to pay more for your OS to have special features supporting this. I
don't think mere mortals need this version, however ReFS looks intriguing, but
there may be other ways to have it too.

------
caseymarquis
If the entire UI still locks up when performing simple tasks, they may have
prioritized the wrong problem.

~~~
efdee
Would you mind expanding a little on what simple tasks are locking up the UI
for you? This is something I haven't experienced before.

------
amiga-workbench
What the hell happened to Microsoft cutting down on all the SKU's?

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jryan49
Why not just sell these features as add-ons in the Windows store or something?
I guess if the code's not modular enough and it has to baked in might be a
reason...

------
dman
For workstation use my primary complaint is the anti virus kicking in on file
creation / IO. Would ideally like a locked down windows where having an anti
virus was not a requirement. Even the windows subsystem for linux is not
immune from the antivirus, checking out large git repositories is painfully
slow since the antivirus is getting pounded the whole time.

------
dagaci
Avoiding "another other version" issue I'm hoping that this Workstation
version will dispense many of the software limitations .vs the server, thus
should be a benefit to many pro-user types especially developers.

------
Boothroid
Opteron??????

------
rbanffy
"comes with unique support for server grade PC hardware and is designed to
meet demanding needs of mission critical and compute intensive workloads."

Bingo!

(ref: [https://vimeo.com/12112636](https://vimeo.com/12112636))

------
Markoff
meanwhile here I am on W10 Pro on my workstation which I can't update because
main windows partition has 30GB and apparently 5GB of free space was not
enough for update and can't use other partitions to update it

if I didn't need SDL Trados Studio I would be done with Windows, after recent
update switched from MS Office to Libre Office and can't complain so last
produt from MS I use is W10 Pro

~~~
pcunite
open a command prompt as "admin" (run as admin), and type:

powercfg -h off

this will give you your total ram amount back in extra disk space. You'll lose
hibernation support.

~~~
Markoff
thanks for good idea, though it seem it was using only 1/3 of my already small
RAM

------
intrepidkarthi
If Microsoft ever makes a software that doesn't hang, I will stop using Mac on
the same moment. I swear.

~~~
pjmlp
Do you love seeing that bouncing beach ball?

