
Study participants typically did not enjoy spending 15 minutes by themselves - pessimizer
http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/science/2014/07/03/idle/J2LpEcTdZzLykRCTnZ80fL/story.html
======
encloser
This seems like a poor study to gauge peoples' desire/aversion to thinking.
You put me in a room with nothing but a button I'll probably press it out of
curiosity. Put me in a garden with a enjoyable drink and I'll happily
contemplate whatever comes to mind until I want to get a refill.

~~~
jdiez17
You didn't read the article.

It says they shocked the participants before the study started so the
curiosity factor was not present.

~~~
Mithaldu
The article says they exposed people to the shocks and other stimuli to get a
response to the 5$ question. It doesn't say they took the people and gave them
15 minutes to play around with the thing. Curiosity is still very much in the
game, especially when there's nothing else to do.

A much more meaningful way to do this experiment would've been to have people
sit and receive regular shocks (not under their own control), and to sit with
nothing else to do, provide an incentive for staying 15 minutes and see how
quickly they give up.

And while i'm writing: The article also mentions they couldn't find people who
enjoy the time alone, but didn't mention whether they asked people who
habitually medidate.

~~~
Aqueous
One participant shocked themselves 190 times. I'd say I'd concede curiosity is
the main factor the first one or two times.

~~~
Estragon
Yes, but the mean number of times was less than 1.5, with maximum 4 if you
exclude that outlier. The vast majority of cases are perfectly compatible with
curiosity, a scenario the paper ignored completely, and which could have been
at least partially addressed simply by asking participants why they pressed
the button.

This is an OK study, sexed up in a very cynical and ignorant way.

~~~
x3c
Isn't it also a false dilemma? I'd be lost in my thoughts and will shock
myself just for the kick of it too, maybe as a curiosity or maybe in a
masochistic way.

------
molbioguy
I get the point that people may prefer external stimulation to internal
thoughts. But I think the result of this study hinge on whether the electric
shock was really all that unpleasant. For safety reasons, I'll assume the
shock wasn't large enough to be harmful or create anything but a momentary
sensation. People are curious, and it would seem a fairly safe environment.
What's to stop them from simply experimenting with a new sensation. Roller
coasters and scary movies should logically be avoided, but they aren't. The
guy they mentioned who shocked himself 190 times clearly must have thought it
was fun.

~~~
coldtea
"""I get the point that people may prefer external stimulation to internal
thoughts. But I think the result of this study hinge on whether the electric
shock was really all that unpleasant."""

All of these is beside the point.

An electric shock, mild, even pleasant is a BS diversion.

People prefered BS diversion (could be even clicking a button that did nothing
at all) that spending a few minutes with their thoughts.

That's the real story -- not how bad the electricity was etc.

~~~
watwut
Unless the 190 buzz guy was the norm, those people spent a lot of time not
hitting themselves. Anyone who hit himself once did spent time thinking, then
pressed button and then spent another time thinking.

The other thing is, I love spending time with thinking when I choose to and
have something interesting to thing about. It does not mean that I will
contemplate something cool at every random void moment or never get bored
while waiting in queue.

~~~
thaumasiotes
I tend to agree there's not a lot to see here. But the headline reminded me of
this:

[http://partiallyclips.com/2005/09/08/hell/](http://partiallyclips.com/2005/09/08/hell/)

Time alone with your thoughts doesn't have to be a good thing.

------
userbinator
This is sad and a bit disturbing because it suggests that average people seem
to dislike _thinking_. I'm quite the opposite, and 15 minutes of pure thinking
for me would pass by quite easily - I feel like I can't get enough time to
think more carefully about all the ideas that I have for the things I do, or
want to. Then again, I'm introverted and definitely not representative of the
average population.

(Of course, I'm assuming here that their test subjects weren't secretly
masochists who enjoyed shocking themselves, and ignoring some of the other
biases that might be present - e.g. if their participants were self-selected,
most of them might be those who are bored with nothing else to do.)

~~~
watwut
I read somewhere that they used device with 9V battery. We used to lick both
4.5V and 9V batteries as kids. I found 4.5V hit to be quite pleasant and I
would repeat the "experiment" a lot. Licking 9V battery was less pleasant, but
not really too uncomfortable. I did that multiple times too even through my
room was full of toys.

Their device could generate less pleasant feelings, sure. But I am kind of
skeptical of big conclusions people take out of this study.

~~~
stan_rogers
I went from licking 9V batteries to charging a 4700μF capacitor with a 9V
battery and discharging that through two audio output transformers used
"backwards" (so 8Ω primary/1kΩ secondary) using a momentary SPDT switch. Felt
just a bit different, that did.

------
robert_tweed
This is getting posted a lot. Here's one from yesterday, where I commented:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7988759](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7988759)
(edit: whoops, fixed the link!)

This one elaborates a bit further, saying that the percentages of each sex
that chose the shock were out of the group that had already had the shock and
said they would pay not to have it again.

Still would be nice to get the original text instead of all these piecemeal,
borderline blogspam articles, but it's behind a paywall at Science, here:
[http://www.sciencemag.org/content/345/6192/75](http://www.sciencemag.org/content/345/6192/75)

------
Xcelerate
I think the article makes a mistake in assuming that everything painful is
unpleasant. Why do people eat spicy foods then?

I find that as I get older, my tolerance for boredom has become lower and
lower. When I was younger, I used to be able to just sit and think. Now I
dread long drives because the sheer boredom of it drives me crazy. And it gets
even weirder, because although I don't like social interaction that much, I
find myself craving "going out and doing something" every night because the
thought of just sitting inside watching a movie is painful.

I blame the internet. My attention span and focus are noticeably worse than
they used to be, and I feel like I need constant stimulation all the time now.

~~~
StavrosK
Audiobooks + driving = bliss.

~~~
greggman
Audiobooks are awesome for long drives. Podcasts too. For me especially
Radiolab, This American Life, The Moth, Escape Pod, and The Dunesteef Audio
Fiction Magazine

------
personlurking
“All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room
alone.” - Blaise Pascal

------
shasta
> One person pressed the button 190 times.

New study finds researchers trolled by subjects.

~~~
bausson
New study found short-circuits in study test materials.

------
jasim
It isn't surprising that we are most happy when we are able to forget
ourselves.

Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi's book 'Flow - The Psychology of Optimal Experience'
talks about optimal experiences. He has found that humans are generally happy
in what is termed as a 'flow' experience. Activities in which we immerse
ourselves fully, temporarly forgetting ourselves, like programming, are flow
experiences.

A few relevant quotes from the book:

"So loss of self-consciousness does not involve a loss of self, and certainly
not a loss of consciousness, but rather, only a loss of consciousness of the
self. What slips below the threshold of awareness is the concept of self, the
information we use to represent to ourselves who we are. And being able to
forget temporarily who we are seems to be very enjoyable. When not preoccupied
with our selves, we actually have a chance to expand the concept of who we
are. Loss of self-consciousness can lead to self-transcendence, to a feeling
that the boundaries of our being have been pushed forward."

"The similarities between Yoga and flow are extremely strong; in fact it makes
sense to think of Yoga as a very thoroughly planned flow activity. Both try to
achieve a joyous, self-forgetful involvement through concentration, which in
turn is made possible by a discipline of the body."

"When a family has a common purpose and open channels of communication, when
it provides gradually expanding opportunities for action in a setting of
trust, then life in it becomes an enjoyable flow activity. Its members will
spontaneously focus their attention on the group relationship, and to a
certain extent forget their individual selves, their divergent goals, for the
sake of experiencing the joy of belonging to a more complex system that joins
separate consciousnesses in a unified goal."

------
amouat
Isn't the main impulse behind pushing the button simple curiosity rather than
boredom? I'd be sitting there thinking about what the shock would feel like
until I gave into my own curiosity and pushed the button. However, I still
definitely like spending time on my own with own thoughts.

~~~
iak8god
> Isn't the main impulse behind pushing the button simple curiosity rather
> than boredom?

I thought this too at first, but it turns out they exposed everyone to the
shock along with a bunch of other stimuli in preparation for this part of the
experiment. Also one guy shocked himself 190 times.

------
lifeisstillgood
Well, how long have any of us tried to simply be alone with our thoughts? 15
mins is a long time - no music, books etc, quiet room. I think I would enjoy
it, but I will happily admit that I might be wishing I had a book by 10th
minute.

And personally I think meditating _is_ doing something.

------
ekianjo
People in solitary confinement can certainly confirm it's not very enjoyable
to stay by yourself with your own thoughts.

~~~
jpttsn
People who meditate can certainly reject it. I don't think it's categorically
unpleasant. Confinement is unpleasant because of the high opportunity cost.

~~~
watwut
People who meditate have way more control over when it ends, what they eat and
when they turn off the light. Read up about psychological effects about long
term solitary confinement and sensory deprivation that goes with it. The
problem is not just the high opportunity cost. The experience can cause long
term psychological issues.

------
joshvm
Of course the journal article isn't open access. But hey, Google.

"To see whether the difficulty with “just thinking” is distinctive to college
students, in study 9 we recruited community participants at a farmer’s market
and a local church. The par- ticipants ranged in age from 18 to 77 (median age
= 48.0 years). As in study 7, they completed the study online in their own
homes, after receiving instructions to do so when they were alone and free of
any external distractions. The results were similar to those found with
college students. There was no evidence that enjoyment of the thinking period
was related to participants’ age, education, income, or the frequency with
which they used smart phones or social media (table S2)."

So apparently it's not related to the prevalence of distracting technology -
according to them. I would question the second (S8) 'at home' studies which
only used 15 people per experiment. This was to test whether allowing
participants to distract themselves had any effect.

It's a very short paper, only a couple of pages, so I think needs a bit more
digging to actually find out whether it's true or not. The whole thing seems
very speculative.

------
dbbolton
>“It seems that the average person doesn’t seem to be capable of generating a
sufficiently interesting train of thought to prevent them from being miserable
with themselves.”

Aside from being unnecessarily harsh and condescending, I think this comment
is off-base and makes unwarranted assumptions about the nature of boredom.

------
JohnDotAwesome
Sometimes, I felt like I was reading The Onion -

"... people basically found being alone with themselves not very fun and kind
of boring."

"It seems that the average person doesn’t seem to be capable of generating a
sufficiently interesting train of thought to prevent them from being miserable
with themselves."

------
jpttsn
What if there was no novelty factor? Electric shocks aren't so common; I'd
play with a machine that let's me have a new sensation. I might prefer it to
time alone with thoughts because I believe I'll have the latter available any
time I want.

------
alexvr
I bet this is part of the reason most people are not independent & creative
thinkers. And I would bet that it also has something to do with why creative
people often end up with mental health issues down the road. It's definitely
easier and more fun (and maybe even healthier) to whip out your smartphone and
Google something you're wondering about, play a quick game, read what someone
else thinks, etc. in otherwise idle moments, but doing so precludes having a
bunch of potentially valuable thoughts.

------
alekratz
Think about the deeper implications of the experiment. Yes, people will shock
themselves when there's nothing to do. However, that also means that when
there's nothing to do, the majority of people will try to physically stimulate
themselves because that's all there is TO do. To say that we're stupid because
we would administer a painful shock to ourselves rather than sit in our own
silence for 15 minutes is a very naiive way to approach the results. Come to a
conclusion, dammit!

~~~
userbinator
Indeed, "physically stimulate themselves", in every sense of that phrase. :-)

------
_Adam
It's not like they aren't capable of amusing their selves with their own
thoughts. It's more like they aren't willing to try.

------
suzyperplexus
I guess one way to test what might have happened in this study is to time
yourself for 15 min and see what you'd do. In my experience, being alone with
my thoughts and meditating or just sitting there is useful, but not
particularly pleasant. Silence is often where people have to find and deal
with all the shitty truths about themselves.

------
bambax
> _One person pressed the button 190 times._ (...) _The researchers were
> stunned._

Well, the researchers weren't the only people stunned, apparently.

Not everything in life is about being "happy"; just because one isn't happy
doesn't mean they wasted their time.

------
j2kun
While I'm totally surprised people would shock themselves after only 15
minutes, now I'm more interested in the people who did _not_ shock themselves.
What are their ages and occupations? What could explain their ability to enjoy
a bit of isolation?

------
maneesh
A perfect time for Pavlok: www.engadget.com/2014/07/04/pavlok-wearable/

------
krosaen
“All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room
alone.”

― Blaise Pascal

------
Dylan16807
The title this was submitted with is pretty awful. There is a huge difference
between "by themselves" and "time alone with thoughts". I was expecting a
completely different argument.

------
gress
Does this have anything to do with thinking, or just the idea that most people
are unhappy and want distraction? Is that a surprise given how much of society
is devoted to creating distraction?

------
JonnieCache
[http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2225](http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2225)

Terrifyingly accurate.

------
gibweb
Kudos for posting this with a less sensational title than the original

------
beachstartup
when i was a kid i would touch 9v batteries to my tongue.

even today occasionally i touch my electric flyswatter and it hurts like hell
but i'm compelled to do it for some reason.

maybe it's a mild form of cutting?

------
damon_c
Looks like time alone with thoughts is ready to be disrupted.

------
Asparagirl
Clearly these people are not parents of young children.

------
programmer_dude
Some people.

------
PeterGriffin
Many, many people willingly meditate ("alone with their thoughts") on their
own will in order to focus and clear their mind, including me. And that's
despite I do have traumatic events in my past that float up from time to time.

No thoughts of self-mutilation or electroshocking myself so far.

Either is this study flawed, or it was reported poorly (hey, what's new,
right), but I'm so sick of shitty studies in popular media, I won't even try
to figure out which one.

