
Caffeine Jitters - zt
http://cen.acs.org/articles/91/i5/Caffeine-Jitters.html
======
jere
I wonder how many emergency room visits (and deaths) are associated with
coffee usage. I suspect the number is negligible, if not plain 0. With
billions of cups of coffee consumed daily, I'm skeptical that it's really
caffeine that is the villain.

The guy in the beginning supposedly consumed ~600mg of caffeine over 7 hours,
which is roughly equivalent to a pot of coffee. That's high usage, but not at
all unusual.

>“Your typical cup of coffee comes hot; you wouldn’t usually gulp it down.”

Speak for yourself. I'm a guy who one-shots his coffee before it even cools
down.

~~~
fjk
The guy at the beginning of the article consumed only ~600mg of caffeine, but
he consumed between 7,000 and 8,000 mg of taurine which is over 2x safe daily
consumption[1]. I don't think that drinking 600 mg of caffeine is good for
you, but I don't think it's the primary culprit for hospitalizations. I'm
thinking the other ingredients in energy drinks, such as taurine and guarana,
play a major role.

Here's an interesting quote from a recent Atlantic article[2]: "Still, despite
the fact that a Starbucks venti coffee has three times as much listed caffeine
as a can of Monster, some people swear they're more wired after drinking an
energy drink. That may be because of the extra caffeine in guarana. Energy
drinks can advertise that they have the same amount of caffeine as a cup of
coffee; but when you include guarana, they have a much stronger stimulant
effect."

I found this chart from the Seattle Times comparing stimulant levels in energy
drinks[3]. Not only does Monster have 160 mg of caffeine in each can, it also
has 5,000 mg of guarana and 2,000 mg of taurine. That's a lot of stimulants
for one can. I would be interested in seeing more in-depth studies on guarana
and taurine.

[1] According to the Mayo Clinic, the recommended maximum daily intake of
taurine is 3,000 mg (<http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/taurine/AN01856>)

[2] [http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/01/how-
much-c...](http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/01/how-much-
caffeine-before-i-end-up-in-the-er/267129/)

[3] seattletimes.nwsource.com/news/health/links/energydrinkchart10.pdf

~~~
Too

        > Still, despite the fact that a Starbucks venti coffee has 
        > three times as much listed caffeine as a can of Monster, 
        > some people swear they're more wired after drinking an 
        > energy drink.
    

Sugar?

~~~
prawks
Sugar has been proven not to induce hyperactivity, it's a common
misconception.

[http://scopeblog.stanford.edu/2012/10/31/debunking-a-
hallowe...](http://scopeblog.stanford.edu/2012/10/31/debunking-a-halloween-
myth-sugar-and-hyperactivity/)

~~~
Too
Energetic and alert doesn't have to mean hyperactive. I was thinking more of
general blood sugar/glucose level.

Inserting quick carbs into your body will most likely start the engine in some
way.

------
lkrubner
This suggests a certain amount of safety:

"According to FDA, at least 80% of adults in the U.S. consume caffeine every
day."

That is a very large scale test. That a few dozen people get sick, out of
almost 200 million daily drinkers, is not very surprising. The reality is,
this is a drug that is safe for the overwhelming majority of its users.

~~~
Periodic
This is a great example of responsible stimulant usage. A similar drug that is
consumed every day by millions of people is alcohol. It has a much higher
death rate than caffeine and seems to be over-used quite often. However, the
vast, vast majority of users are responsible.

I think we can agree that moderate usage is acceptable and useful. I think the
major point of the article is that we have to be aware of how much caffeine is
in drinks so that people can use it responsibly. The danger in energy drinks
is that they are fairly opaque and people don't know how it compares to
something like coffee. Most people will dislike the effects of
overstimulation, but we want to make sure that everyone has the tools to
protect themselves and their children.

------
prawks
TL; DR:

 _these recommended “safe” levels of caffeine are just statistical averages
over the population. Some people tolerate caffeine and can ingest large
quantities of the compound without ill effects, and others can’t_

~~~
drzaiusapelord
This is a good point. I get a little jittery from one diet coke and two diet
cokes makes me feel really sped up and gives me insomnia. A cup of coffee is
almost unbearable.

I'll drink a tea for a little caffeine, but that's about it. I have no idea
how people tolerate drinks with multiple shots of espresso. Tolerance must
vary wildly between people.

~~~
ikawe
My tolerance has changed a lot going from my early 20's to my late 20's. I
used to regularly drink 8 cups a day, but now start to feel awful after 2.

I think its a combination of losing the acquired tolerance, increasing a
latent sensitivity, and more awareness of my physiology.

~~~
prawks
Metabolism is also a factor, which begins to slow in many people's late 20's.

------
mtts
"Ballpark favorite Cracker Jack will soon come as Cracker Jack’d—2-oz packages
of the familiar candy-coated kernels jammed, in certain flavors, with 70 mg of
caffeine from coffee."

WTF?

------
ikawe
Weekend app from a while back:

deathbycoffee.heroku.com/(yourname)

~~~
dailyrorschach
This is pretty fun, going to play with this today. Suggestion - add a button
to plot when you feel an associated negative symptom?

Could be cool to hack your ideal caffeine ingestion. Also a cup here is
measured as 8oz right? So a large coffee is 2 clicks?

~~~
ikawe
<https://github.com/michaelkirk/death-by-coffee>

------
steveplace
I was hospitalized after drinking 2 cans of Monster energy.

But I still defend energy drinks.

My hospitalization was due to too much caffeine that exacerbated a pre-
existing bout of pericarditis-- the actual cause was most likely an infection
or cold.

The individual ingredients of an energy drink have no proven ill effects:

\- Carbonated Water - Completely Neutral. It might harm your teeth but the
evidence is related to sugar + carbonated water

\- Glucose - Major energy source

\- Citric Acid - Needed for Krebs Cycle

\- Taurine - Essential amino acid that has benefits for heart and blood

\- Sodium Citrate - flavoring, used for kidneys and is an antacid

\- Panax Ginseng - amazing supplement; good for mood, immunity, cognition

\- Caffeine - good in moderation, bad in excess \- Sorbic Acid - preservative
with no adverse health effects

\- Sucralose - sweetener with no proven side-effects. Chronic effects occur on
a dosage above 9 mg/kg

\- Benzoic Acid - preservative that naturally occurs in berries. Stay under 5
mg/kg

\- L-Carintine - wonderful little supplement that is good for you, potential
nootropic

\- Niacinamide - vitamin B3

\- Acesulfame Potassium - sweetener, potential carcinogen although studies
lack confidence

\- Sodium Chloride - table salt

\- Glucuronolactone - aids circulation, is good for your heart

\- Inositol - good for you, prevents colon cancer, sold as a supplement

\- Guarana Seed - caffeine source, aids memory and physical endurance

\- Pyridoxine HCL - vitamin B6

\- Riboflavin - found in your wheaties

\- Maltodextrin - starch, no known health issues

\- Cyanocobalamin - vitamin B12

Beyond that, there may be a dangerous interaction between two ingredients that
has yet to be nailed down.

I have another theory-- the devil's in the dosage.

I can take down a pot of coffee if I have a good night's rest, but if I am up
before 7 and have a single cup, it does not go well for me. This could be
related to how caffeine interacts with existing cortisol levels, and if I am
stressed and not well rested the effects are amplified.

This is probably why it's so hard to figure out an accurate lethal dose of
caffeine, because small changes in biochemistry can significantly amplify how
your body acts with caffeine.

I would also (weakly) argue that why we don't see many overdoses with coffee
is because you don't start drinking large amounts of coffee on the first go--
because the substance is bitter, it is hard to down a full pot in one sitting.

Due to a built in taste moderation, it is hard to hit your natural upper
limit. But because energy drinks are sweet and easily drinkable, novice
caffeine users can hit their upper limit in a short amount of time.

And because the half-life of caffeine ranges from 5 hours to 15 hours (!) you
can get a strong excess build up in your body in a quick amount of time. There
may be an ingredient in the drinks that increase the half-life, which leads to
higher risks over time.

~~~
jonnathanson
_"Due to a built in taste moderation, it is hard to hit your natural upper
limit. But because energy drinks are sweet and easily drinkable, novice
caffeine users can hit their upper limit in a short amount of time."_

It's an interesting hypothesis. I'd add that coffee is (most often) served
hot, and as such, consuming a cup of coffee takes quite a bit longer than
chugging down a cold can of Red Bull.

And about that chugging: it's a different use case. People are conditioned to
treat energy drinks like stimulants. The drinks are even marketed as such.
Coffee, on the other hand, is primarily consumed in moderation (aside from
classic tales of all-nighters, etc., which probably represent a fraction of a
percentage of coffee usage). People see coffee as a morning ritual, whereas
they see energy drinks as -- for lack of a better word -- speed. The use cases
are very different, as are the consumption patterns.

I would hypothesize that energy drinks are inherently no more dangerous than
coffee, at least as far as their ingredients go. Rather, they're more
dangerous because they're consumed in greater quantities and at greater speed
-- rapidly injecting the body with massive quantities of caffeine, and thus
shocking the unprepared system. Coffee is more of a slow drip of caffeine, as
it were.

~~~
InclinedPlane
Well, there may be a bit of a confounding factor in there.

The availability of energy drinks has made them more widely regarded as the
way one goes about consuming lots of caffeine, whereas coffee/espresso tends
to be thought of as a smaller scale pick-me-up. Meaning that in situations
where people set out to intentionally consume lots of caffeine they are
choosing to do so via energy drinks instead of coffee. A study of historical
data may show whether or not this is a significant effect. But it could be the
case that sans energy drinks we'd still have the same level of problems,
through coffee consumption, but perhaps that problem has merely been shifted
to energy drinks rather than arising from nowhere.

------
pstuart
If you are interested in better living through chemistry then I encourage you
to peruse this site:

<http://examine.com/supplements/Caffeine/>

------
spennino
Why do energy drinks get all the heat? Starbucks coffee has around twice as
much caffeine/oz and an even higher ratio per serving

~~~
pyre
Energy drinks have other stimulants in them than just caffeine. See some of
the other posts here about stuff like taurine and guarana.

~~~
ahoge
Guarana is just a different source of caffeine.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guarana>

------
scotty79
I wonder how green tea compares to that. After drinking 5 half liter cups of
green tea throughout the day I felt in my chair like on the subway station
with trains passing by. I had to lie down and sleep.

------
anthemcg
According to their chart. Starbucks coffee should be killing you but the
article mostly about energy drinks. Has it not occurred to anyone that
caffeine isn't the only contributing factor?

------
mmagin
I wonder how many of these cases are due to the combination of caffeine and
other risk factors such as dehydration or hyponatremia.

------
jrogers65
Caffeine goes swimmingly with magnesium, L-Theanine and Noopept.

------
jonaldomo
why is an 8oz cup of brewed coffee 133mg of caffeine and a 16oz starbucks
330mg?

~~~
Avshalom
I'd guess starbucks uses a higher water temperature for brewing.

~~~
NegativeK
Caffeine content of tea and coffee will vary widely.

For coffee, smaller grind size, brewing method, the bean type (there are
low/decaf cultivars,) roasting method, and water temperature (to name a few)
will affect how much caffeine ends up in your cup.

Expecting Starbucks to give you a consistent dose cup after cup, month after
month is probably a bit optimistic.

