
The Problem with Positive Thinking - donmcc
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/26/opinion/sunday/the-problem-with-positive-thinking.html
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mbillie1
I take issue with the title of the article, which seems to equate positive
thinking with naivety. It's link bait for exactly the people who don't need
it: the despondent and cynical.

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ivraatiems
I know a psychology professor who often says: "The only people who see the
world clearly are the clinically depressed."

Reasonable self-deception is actually a very important thing for us to
develop, because we're not good at doing things we don't believe ourselves to
be capable of doing. It's not about thinking you're superman, or pretending
you've accomplished something you haven't. It's about giving yourself the go-
ahead to try.

~~~
techrat
There's even a term for it.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism)

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droopyEyelids
There are many different things that people mean by "positive thinking".

This article seems to confuse prematurely patting yourself on the back with
believing it's possible to accomplish your goals.

Consider a less radical interpretation- something more along the lines of
optimism vs cynicism. Then you can easily see the benefits of positive
thinking.

Imagining that you can make a difference when pursuing your goal leads you
into all sorts of events and skills that a negative state of mind would keep
you from.

In my mind, it's a question of what tools to apply to different layers of
abstraction. Like, you want to overall have a positive, optimistic outlook.
Then, use negative thinking when double-checking your work or planning for
contingencies.

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maheroku
I actually have discovered this about myself recently. I have left my full
time job not long ago so I can start a business and initially was very
optimistic about the future and I was taking my time in every task and
enjoying the moment but when my worries have increased I started envisioning
worst case scenarios in my head and that's when I started getting things done
much quicker. Looking back I also think I did well in school thanks to my
worries but that also made me lose hair due to stress lol, so it's not always
good to worry and a good balance is perfect.

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ChrisGaudreau
Nobody likes unpleasant feelings. For many people it is even worse than
physical pain. Positive thinking and similar strategies offer a seductive way
to temporarily suppress negative thoughts and feelings, but deluding yourself
will likely bring only disappointment in the end.

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judk
Is disappointment in the end worse than disappointment in the beginning and
middle?

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hueving
1/3 disappointment < 3/3 disappointment

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DanBC
The article links to paywalled studies. Psychology studies are often hard to
do. Has anyone read the studies to see if they're reasonable or awful?

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alecdbrooks
Non-paywalled links (incidentally, Google Scholar is very good about digging
up free PDFs, often uploaded by the authors themselves):

>More than two decades ago, I conducted a study in which I presented women
enrolled in a weight-reduction program with several short, open-ended
scenarios about future events — and asked them to imagine how they would fare
in each one.

Oettingen, G. (1991). Expectation, Fantasy, and Weight Loss: Is the Impact of
Positive Thinking Always Positive?. Cognitive Therapy and Research, 15(2).

[http://www.psych.nyu.edu/oettingen/OETTINGEN1991WEIGHT.PDF](http://www.psych.nyu.edu/oettingen/OETTINGEN1991WEIGHT.PDF)

>In a 2011 study published in the Journal of Experimental Social Psychology,
we asked two groups of college students to write about what lay in store for
the coming week.

Kappes, H. B., & Oettingen, G. (2011). Positive fantasies about idealized
futures sap energy. Journal of Experimental Social Psychology, 47(4), 719-729.

[http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/46284/1/__libfile_REPOSITORY_Conten...](http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/46284/1/__libfile_REPOSITORY_Content_Kappes,%20H_Positive%20fantasies%20about%20idealized%20futures%20sap%20energy_Positive%20fantasies%20about%20idealized%20futures%20sap%20energy%20\(LSE%20RO\).pdf)

>In a recent study on healthy eating and exercise. we divided participants
into two groups.

Stadler, G., Oettingen, G., & Gollwitzer, P. M. (2010). Intervention effects
of information and self-regulation on eating fruits and vegetables over two
years. Health Psychology, 29(3), 274.

[http://www.psych.nyu.edu/oettingen/Stadler,%20G.,%20Oettinge...](http://www.psych.nyu.edu/oettingen/Stadler,%20G.,%20Oettingen,%20G.,%20%26%20Gollwitzer,%20P.%20M.%20\(2010\).%20Health%20Psychology.pdf)

Stadler, G., Oettingen, G., & Gollwitzer, P. M. (2009). Physical activity in
women: Effects of a self-regulation intervention. American Journal of
Preventive Medicine, 36(1), 29-34.

[http://www.psych.nyu.edu/oettingen/Stadler,%20G.,%20Oettinge...](http://www.psych.nyu.edu/oettingen/Stadler,%20G.,%20Oettingen,%20G.%20%26%20Gollwitzer,%20P.%20\(2009\).%20Physical%20activity%20in%20women.pdf)

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wavegeek
The key point which is quite valid is that daydreaming about success is not
very useful. Contrary to "The Secret" and such self-help books.

People seem to succeed if they a) Have a lot of confidence they will succeed
AND b) They are fully aware that there will be setbacks, struggle,
difficulties, and moments of doubt.

Good book on the topic with academic references "Succeed: How We Can Reach Our
Goals" by Heidi Grant Halvorson and Carol S. Dweck.

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jqm
I realize it's probably not a popular opinion, but I feel that healthy streak
of cynicism has helped me more than it has hurt me in life.

I guess the learning portion has been not to avoid being cynical, but to avoid
expressing cynical sentiment to others. Very few like to hear it. But I
believe immediately suspecting official explanations from almost any source to
be self serving attempts at deception often lands one closer to actionable
truth than simply accepting them at face value.

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musesum
The premise of the article reminds me of the metric of "fielding average" in
baseball. A player can have a high fielding average by playing it safe and by
not aggressively running to the ball in play. So, it is possible that a more
aggressive player can have a lower fielding average and yet contribute a lot
more value to the team.

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labratmatt
The author is confusing positive thinking with blind, without-a-plan, plowing
ahead. They're not the same.

Optimism and positive thinking are close synonyms. Positive thinking is the a
belief that there is a solution to the problem and that you, as a problem
solver, should be open to the paths that lead to the solution.

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joshdance
The article only mentioned the 'fix' put forth by the author. What is mental
contrasting and how does one do it?

