
Debian 10.2 - jrepinc
https://www.debian.org/News/2019/20191116
======
miclill
Does anyone know of a distribution other than debian with a social
contract[1]? To me this is the reason why I never really considered another
distribution.

[1]
[https://www.debian.org/social_contract](https://www.debian.org/social_contract)

~~~
orblivion
I'm glad this exists. However what I'd look for in a social contract is
something about the level of technical support the users should expect.

When the issue of free software support comes up, too often I see the usual
"OUR COMMUNITY IS NOT YOUR FREE TECHNICAL SUPPORT WE OWE YOU NOTHING"...
o..okay, fair enough. I can't waltz into your community and demand your time
for free... But you _do_ want me to use your system, right? You _do_ think
that Free Software is a viable alternative to proprietary software, where the
creators literally _owe me_ support for their software because I paid them for
it?

That's why it would be nice if they laid out exactly what it is that they are
committing themselves to. Not just writing code and putting the thing
together, but a certain (of course not unlimited) amount of assistance, so I
know I won't be totally left hanging. Maybe some OSes are too much of a hobby
or experiment and they don't want to offer that level of support. Totally
fine. We should expect that sort of thing in the social contract, so users
know what they're getting themselves into, and so that we can all step back
and evaluate whether Free Software is a viable alternative to propriety yet.

~~~
scarejunba
No, I like it this way. I feel like I'm not a client of the community but a
participant. It's my favourite part about open-source.

~~~
ncmncm
It's my favorite part about Free Software.

~~~
scarejunba
That is what I meant, sorry.

------
teddyh
Please note: Starting with Debian 7, the minor number is not part of the
Debian release number, and numbers with a minor component like 9.4 or 9.7 now
indicate a _point_ release. Basically, only security updates and major bug
fixes, with new updated installation media images. This, 10.2, is _not_ a new
major release of Debian.

~~~
mmphosis

      cat /etc/debian_version

~~~
teddyh

      cat /etc/os-release

~~~
holoduke
tac /etc/issue

------
Medicalidiot
One of Debian's draw backs is that simply finding the download page on its
website is an arduous process.

~~~
ebg13
These days I use [https://fiendish.github.io/The-Debian-Gotham-
Needs/](https://fiendish.github.io/The-Debian-Gotham-Needs/)

Because despite the rapid dismissal from these other yahoos, finding an image
with WiFi firmware from the front page is a nightmare maze of wrong links and
secret knowledge.

~~~
tuldia
Wifi firmwares are non-free and are _not_ included in the official iso for a
reason.

Search for "debian non-free iso" and you probably will find what you are
looking for.

> ...nightmare maze of wrong links and secret knowledge.

Please, don't exaggerate.

~~~
ebg13
> _Wifi firmwares are non-free and are not included in the official iso for a
> reason._

And the result is that 99.99% of people can't get 99.99% freedom because of
0.01% of people doubling down on the 0.01% of freedom. I love Debian, but I
consider that gatekeeping a great crime against regular people who could be
empowered and informed from minimal freedom to _nearly_ total freedom instead
of kept out by arcanity and hardlining.

That's why I like the link I posted. Because it says "this will actually work
on your computer" AND also informs you about user freedom and the harm of
proprietary device drivers.

> _Please, don 't exaggerate._

Let's perform an exercise, shall we? Starting from www.debian.org, reading
from top left to bottom right as the English language is read, how many words
must you pass over, how many links must you pass over, which links do you have
to click, and how do you know to click those links and not the other ones in
order to find an iso that installs on a market standard laptop over WiFi? The
decision tree is much deeper than you acknowledge.

~~~
tuldia
> Starting from www.debian.org, reading from top left to bottom right as the
> English language is read...

I guess you should start with the first link, the one that says "About
Debian". There you can know what Debian is about and align your expectations.

If you think it works for you, then go back to www.debian.org and do a ctrl+f
and type "download", there is a big button in the top right corner. It is
probably what you need (amd64, netinstall).

~~~
ebg13
All I hear you saying is that you think regular people with regular lives and
regular products and regular concerns don't deserve to get _almost_ total
freedom from Debian because of that missing last little bit, and, too bad so
sad, they should just go somewhere else. I disagree with that stance.

------
m6w6
What's actually the point in those point releases?

Don't understand me wrong, I'm running Debian on all my servers, but on the
desktop I'm in love wit the rolling release model.

Is it just to overcome the initial upgrade inertia?

~~~
joana035
There are places in the world where internet is not accessible, maybe for you
it's a commodity but for some people is easy to burn a CD and send it to those
who needs it.

~~~
m6w6
Oh, yeah, this makes totally sense, I did not think about that. Thanks!

------
icefo
I'm happy they decided to backport the fix for cyrus ! Some mails could become
hidden on update from cyrus 2.5 to 3

I didn't want to use backports for a mail server and after the maintainers
decided to not patch the SSL bug in the previous release
([https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-
bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=863520](https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-
bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=863520)) I was afraid they would do the same.

------
TekMol
What does that mean?

Will my daily "apt update && apt upgrade" get me this?

~~~
zozbot234
Yup. Sometimes you might actually need "apt full-upgrade" to get everything
right, but not today.

~~~
missingrib
Don't you mean "apt dist-upgrade"? Or are they the same thing

