
US considers cabin laptop ban on flights from UK airports - k-mcgrady
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/25/us-considers-banning-laptops-on-flights-from-uk-airports
======
no1youknowz
Was already posted earlier:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14192644](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14192644)

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devurandom_
My chief concern with this situation is that when these rules are applied
you're essentially moving li-ion batteries into the hold of the aircraft.
Laptops that are accidentally left on could overheat in suitcases, tablets
could get impact damage during turbulence etc. Surely this is a huge fire
risk?

I recently flew and was asked if I had spare batteries or e-cig devices in the
bags I wanted to check in since they aren't allowed in checked luggage -
presumably for this reason. In fact, I just did some searching and found this
article: [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-04-07/laptop-
ba...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-04-07/laptop-ban-spurred-
by-terror-concern-raises-warning-of-fire-risk)

Are there fire suppression systems in modern airliners? Would they be able to
stop a laptop battery that's combusting?

~~~
iaskwhy
My girlfriend just went through an airline training course and, yes, they can
stop electrical fires, like batteries, on-board. On a surprising note, they
might be even able to handle bombs if these are detected before an explosion.
They have procedures for most dangerous stuff, had no idea.

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Symbiote
So where could one carry a laptop, and have it covered in case of loss? Not in
checked baggage:

British Airways conditions of carriage:

8f) Fragile or perishable items must not be packed in baggage checked into the
hold

You must not include in your checked baggage fragile or perishable items or
items of special value such as:

    
    
      money
      jewellery
      precious metals
      computers
      personal electronic devices
      share certificates, bonds and other valuable documents
      business documents or
      passports and other identification documents.
    
    

15e7) We are not liable in any way whatever for damage to or loss of items
which you include in your checked baggage although you are forbidden from
including them under clauses 8c, 8d or 8f, or in the case of permitted
firearms you have not complied with the conditions for including them under
clause 8d, except as provided for by the Convention. These items include
fragile or perishable items, items with a special value, such as money,
jewellery, precious metals, computers, personal electronic devices, share
certificates, bonds and other valuable documents, business documents, or
passports and other identification documents. In the event of any claim for
damage, delay or loss, we may avail ourself of all defences of contributory
negligence specified in the Convention.

[https://www.britishairways.com/en-
us/information/legal/briti...](https://www.britishairways.com/en-
us/information/legal/british-airways/general-conditions-of-carriage)

~~~
pavel_lishin
> _So where could one carry a laptop, and have it covered in case of loss?_

In a box, to your local Fedex office.

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k-mcgrady
Is this ban just typical security theater? Surely a device which does have
explosives in it is going to be problematic in the hold too. Why not fix the
actual problem and upgrade the protocol for checking devices when going
through security. They already go through the X-ray machine and are often
dusted for chemicals. Is anybody really comfortable putting a $1k laptop in a
hold bag which far too often gets lost/stolen/broken? Also seems like a very
easy way to have lots of people's data get stolen (most people aren't
encrypting their devices).

~~~
StavrosK
Who the hell puts explosives in electronics? Even more so, who puts explosives
in electronics that will have no other option if laptops are forbidden?!

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EGreg
I always wondered: what is the point of taking laptops out of your bag and
putting them in a _separate tray_?

~~~
vilya
It's so the scanner operators can tell there's nothing hidden underneath your
laptop. I'm not sure whether the laptop case (or just the battery?) can
actually block the scanners, or it just makes the output image harder to
interpret. Either way, I guess they want to be sure...

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r00fus
And so we go down the slippery slope. Next it'll be worldwide.

And what happens to your laptop in your checked baggage? Why essentially
security will have console access... some might even forget to shut off
instead of sleep their device.

The whole notion that laptops are safer in the hold as opposed to the cabin is
backwards.

~~~
angry_octet
The cabin is has more sensitive cargo than the hold. Whereas an explosion or
explosive deflageration in the hold is contained in engineered luggage bins,
buffered with clothing padding, and placed in a random location, in the
passenger cabin it could be placed at a specific point. Also, the
environmental system pumps to the hold sections can be turned off to cut fresh
air to any fire.

Comparatively, the notion that some passengers will act meaningfully to put
out a fire in the cabin is laughable, it would be a mass panic and everybody
and dying.

However, with 200g of high explosive, and an aluminium laptop to form an
explosively formed penetrator, there is going to be a big hole in the plane no
matter where it goes off. Compared to the stuff being used against coalition
forces in Iraq a few years ago, no particular technical challenge. So quite
worrying.

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pavel_lishin
Meanwhile, whatever companies provides in-flight movie rentals are dancing a
happy little jig.

~~~
k-mcgrady
Isn't this always free to the passenger? I've never had to rent a movie on a
flight that has an entertainment system.

~~~
mikeash
Depends on the airline and on the flight. This past weekend I took a United
flight where DirecTV was available, but you had to pay for it past the first
few minutes. Really pissed me off too, since it was a night flight and nobody
paid for it but all eleventy-hundred seatback screens stayed illuminated the
whole time showing ads.

I've seen other flights with pay-per-view systems for on-demand movies and TV
shows. Good airlines make them available for free, but not all airlines are
good.

As to the grandparent comment's point, smartphones are still allowed, so I
imagine people will watch their movies on that. It's not the best experience,
but still better than those craptastic seatback screens.

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nikon
What happens when I arrive and my MacBook is gone?

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Johnny555
You have to buy a new Macbook and if you don't have your own insurance, you'll
be paying for it out of your own pocket.

Here's United's liability clause, showing that their liability is around $500
if they lose your entire 50 lb bag, but if you lose just a laptop, good luck
proving that they are liable... and if you do, maybe they'll give you $18 for
your 3 lb laptop:

 _For international travel to which the Warsaw Convention applies (including
domestic portions of international travel), United 's liability is limited to
approximately $9.07 USD/CAD per pound up to $640.00 USD/CAD per bag for
checked baggage and $400.00 USD/CAD per customer for unchecked baggage._

[https://www.united.com/web/en-
US/content/travel/baggage/liab...](https://www.united.com/web/en-
US/content/travel/baggage/liability.aspx)

