
Apple Unveils a More Powerful Apple TV - salimmadjd
http://techcrunch.com/2015/09/09/apple-unveils-a-more-powerful-apple-tv/
======
athenot
The more interesting news is the release of the SDK for the AppleTV. This
opens new possibilities.

~~~
malchow
Will the new Apple TV be able to play arbitrary files over a network? That
would be simply fantastic -- but unlikely.

~~~
superuser2
Apple is in the business of selling legal content through iTunes, and to my
knowledge there is no way of legally obtaining non-DRMed video files of movies
or TV shows. Making piracy more convenient would be a surprising move.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if someone was able to use the SDK to write a
XBMC-like app.

~~~
gozo
"no way of legally obtaining non-DRMed video files of movies or TV shows"

Uhm what? I know the studios are doing their best, but fortunetly non-DRMed
video isn't illegal yet. Ripping your own dvd, recording from tv, public
domain or cc licensed footage, buying from independent distributors or the
authors themselves, video blogs, conference recordings and learning material
etc.

~~~
superuser2
>Ripping your own dvd

Tell me with a straight face that Apple gives a shit about DVDs.

>recording from tv

Fumbling around with capture cards is roughly the opposite of the Apple TV's
ethos.

>public domain or cc licensed footage, public domain or cc licensed footage,
buying from independent distributors or the authors themselves, video blogs,
buying learning material etc.

Vimeo is already a pretty polished UX for most of the independent film use
cases. Offline is a concern on mobile devices but not really relevant to the
Apple TV.

Also, let's be realistic here, people aren't watching public domain content on
their couches day in and day out, they're watching big-name TV shows.

~~~
unprepare
So if I already bought several standup specials from louisck.net?

If I got videos from a kickstarter?

If I make videos myself and want to show them to friends?

Are stand up comedy fans, kickstarterers, and film creators not part of
Apple's target market?

~~~
sangnoir
>Are stand up comedy fans, kickstarterers, and film creators not part of
Apple's target market?

They are, but only if they buy/sell on iTunes.

------
chambo622
This device looks slick but I'm very disappointed that it doesn't really bring
anything new to the table. It might be best of breed in terms of polish and
features compared to Android TV, Fire TV, etc - but functionally, it's
identical. What happened to Apple revolutionizing the way people pay
for/consume content?

~~~
knorby
In terms of hardware, it isn't the winner for this sort of product. According
to reports from a few days ago, the new Apple TV lacks 4K support. The Nvidia
Shield runs Android TV, supports 4K (well), and has a pretty reasonable GPU in
it. It costs $50 more.

~~~
urda
Most homes are not 4K ready and are not anywhere near it at this time. Not
really a hurting point in this market.

~~~
t0mbstone
It's completely unacceptable for the new Apple TV not to support 4K, when both
Netflix and Amazon are releasing 4K content now. On top of that, the new
iPhones can record in 4K, and the new iPad can edit 4K videos.

You can buy a 50 inch 4K TV nowadays for under $1,000. 4K is going to explode
in the next year or two, and if the new Apple TV doesn't support it, I won't
be buying it. Period.

~~~
nsxwolf
What's the point of 4K on a TV again? So you can walk up to it and say
"ooooh!", then go sit down and have it look like 1080p?

Is that brief standing-too-close moment worth the massive increase in
bandwidth required?

~~~
t0mbstone
Watch 4K content on a 75 inch screen, then play 1080p content on that same
screen. The difference in clarity is huge.

The only reason you can't tell the difference is because you are probably
watching 1080p content that is being upscaled.

Watch TRUE 4K content on a 65+ inch television, and it's like looking through
window. It's amazing.

~~~
nsxwolf
At what viewing distance, though? I have a 65 inch 1080p set that I sit 12
feet from. Without my glasses, I can't tell the difference between 1080p and
480p at that distance.

~~~
t0mbstone
I sit about 10-12 feet away from my TV. It sounds like you need to get your
vision checked.

------
kin
This changes gaming. I need a bluetooth controller accessory and devs will
really be able to go far with this.

edit: While everyone here seems to disagree, many indie devs have been waiting
for this for a while. It will essentially be the biggest indie console market.
Ouya was unproven hardware and lackluster adoption. Innovation wise, sure,
there's nothing new here in hardware nor software. But in terms of form
factor, dev kits, and market, this will be very different.

~~~
dublinben
>This changes gaming

Does it really? I think the failure of greatly hyped consoles like the Ooya
have demonstrated that there isn't actually much of a market for this.
Hardcore gamers already have fully-powered systems. Casual gamers don't care
about playing on their TV.

~~~
jsz0
> Casual gamers don't care about playing on their TV.

Is that really true though? Seems like an under serviced market to me.

~~~
zelos
Ouya and PS Vita TV were hardly huge succeses.

------
andybak
I wonder if this will finally prod Google into actually marketing Android TV?

~~~
tdkl
Google has no clue how to market a product.

~~~
InclinedPlane
Google has no clue how to maintain anything approaching a traditional customer
relationship. They sort of got lucky with ads and everything else is a side
show in terms of revenue so there's no incentive to develop products or
businesses further.

~~~
elif
I want them to succeed so bad. I try to support them.

But you're 100% right. The user experience for glass and google fi have both
been pretty horrible. They don't even have a mechanism to receive feedback,
yet they are purporting that I am "beta testing" for them.

I have a feeling when they want to know whats good or bad at about a product,
they look 95% at a database.

~~~
InclinedPlane
They are a frustrating company to care about. They have so much that's so
important that they're working on, but they're like some half-interested
genius teenager with a short attention span. They just don't have a
significant commitment to anything other than making money through ad revenue,
and that's practically heart-breaking.

------
guelo
Just last night I walked into my living room where I have Chromecast's shitty
screensaver "backdrop" running on my TV and there was an ad on the screen! I
was seriously pissed off, I'm not going to have my TV be an ad billboard for
Google, I'm done with them. I'll consider this Apple TV, though I think I'll
end up with a Roku.

~~~
Yhippa
Really? I rather like their picture scroll. Sometimes when I have nothing to
watch I'll just have that running in the background. What's pretty cool is
that through the Chromecast app you can find more information about the
picture. I've collected a lot of potential vacation destinations this way.

------
untog
Now let's play the game of "guess which provider won't be on the AppleTV".
Amazon, perhaps?

This post cord-cutting TV world is pretty awful. I don't want to have to
download an app for every video provider, if they even have one for my
platform at all.

~~~
ThomPete
Give it time. They all will eventually.

~~~
untog
It depends. Amazon aren't ignoring platforms because they don't have time,
it's because they want people to guy a Fire TV Stick/whatever.

~~~
robwormald
at $39 or whatever it costs, I suspect they aren't making a whole lot of
profit on the hardware. They have an iOS app, I expect they'll have an AppleTV
pretty rapidly.

~~~
untog
_I suspect they aren 't making a whole lot of profit on the hardware_

They aren't. The idea is to get you using one and _then_ make money from that
usage.

~~~
robwormald
Which is why having their app on AppleTV makes sense, no? They don't care
about the device playing the content, just that they're selling the content.

~~~
MiguelHudnandez
Amazon is not just selling content, though. Their push with Fire Sticks and
Fire TV is in part to get "Echo" / "Alexis" into the living room.

Until you can ask Siri to buy you laundry detergent in your next subscribe-
and-save order, Amazon wants to own whatever you use instead of Siri.

------
protomyth
The iPhone and iPod touch are going to make really crappy game controllers. I
would get the AppleCare+ if you have kids or are a bit of a klutz. I get the
feeling a case with a Nintendo wrist strap might not be a bad idea.

------
georgerobinson
I like the Apple TV. It solves the two frustrations I have with the Fire TV
stick:

1\. I can’t search across both Netflix and Amazon Instant Video, instead I
have to search both one after the other.

2\. I like how you can ask Siri “what was that?” or “what did they say?”. I’ve
been watching House of Cards and found myself asking that question quite a
bit. On Fire TV, this involves rewinding, turning on subtitles, catching the
missing text and at last turning subtitles back off again. Such a chore! I
really like how Apple solved this problem. I have yet to see a similar feature
in Fire TV.

~~~
dublinben
Number one is just a function of the FireTV exising to drive you to Amazon
rentals. The Roku has had a comprehensive unified search interface for many
years.

~~~
feld
Rook's unified search is finally about 3 years old (fall 2012) and the
interface is terrible.

~~~
feld
*Roku's

------
rev_bird
Cordcutter here -- AppleTV looks like a handy way to combine my Hulu, Netflix
and Amazon Instant streams, but can anyone comment on whether it's worth the
price if I'm not really plugged into the Apple media ecosystem? I quit the
iTunes store after I discovered (too late, my fault) that all the audiobooks
I'd bought from them could only be downloaded once, then were lost forever.

I've got a Chromecast and it works fine, for the streams it supports. But does
AppleTV content justify the extra cost?

~~~
JohnBooty
I have and enjoy both the Roku 3 and the current (not the one announced today)
AppleTV and aside from Apple stuff like Airplay video streaming and iTunes
cloud integration, it doesn't really give you much over and above the Roku 3.

Of course, the apps and games on the new Apple TV change the game entirely...
_if_ any of that interests you.

~~~
rev_bird
Good to know, thanks. I've been looking at the Roku 2 for a looong while now.
Not really interested in getting mobile games on my TV, might just go with
that instead.

~~~
morley
If the price difference doesn't deter you, you might be better off with a Roku
3 (or waiting for a Roku 4, if such a thing is in the pipeline). I have a 3
and sometimes the framerate drops a little bit, so I can't imagine what using
a Roku 2 is like.

(The framerate drops occur when navigating the interface, not when viewing
content.)

------
robwormald
suddenly the Apple Game Controller framework makes a whole lot more sense....

[https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/Servic...](https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/ServicesDiscovery/Conceptual/GameControllerPG/Introduction/Introduction.html)

------
tjmc
Pissed that they dropped the optical audio port. We regularly stream music
through the AppleTV to an amp with the TV turned off.

I get why they dropped it - newer amps have Bluetooth or HDMI through ports.
But I'm happy with the old amp and standalone HDMI splitters are chunky and
expensive. Any other options out there?

~~~
jmnickels
+1. I pump the ATV via optical out into an external DAC and then onto my amp.
The HDMI out is used purely for video. I don't want or need my audio path
traveling over HDMI.

------
Lx1oG-AWb6h_ZG0
This event is getting absolutely roasted by the Verge liveblog:

> NILAY PATEL 11:01:09 AM PDT > It will play day or night shots depending on
> time of day. Sure. > CASEY NEWTON 11:01:08 AM PDT > "People are clapping for
> screensavers." -Walt Mossberg

And a TV remote without a power button?! That's bold.

~~~
sterculiusx
Cherrypicking is fun.

"For what it's worth, this UI looks way more intuitive than the nightmare
rodeo of the XBOX One or PS 4."

"You can quick rewind 15 seconds by asking "what did she say?" That's pretty
cool."

"Pretty damned impressive.".

See what I did there?

------
rebootthesystem
I wonder if they have a 30% take on retail apps. That alone is a non-starter
because 30% is massive for companies selling real physical products. For
reference, Amazon charges 15% and offers best-in-class world-wide fulfillment
and customer service.

------
angryasian
Why even focus on the remote ? I understand its to make it accessible to
people outside of the apple ecosystem, but it would have been nice to see
better integration with an iphone app.

~~~
sanderjd
Yeah I might consider this if it turns out they have both, eventually. I get
that you massively limit your market if you don't have a remote at all (like
chromecast), but for me, it's so much more convenient to have everything on
the phone.

~~~
daxelrod
They already have a Remote app
[http://www.apple.com/apps/remote/](http://www.apple.com/apps/remote/) that
has all of the functionality of the last-gen Apple TV remote (plus things like
a keyboard). I would be extremely surprised if this weren't updated.

~~~
sanderjd
Neat, thanks for the link.

------
osi
I wonder about the range of the remote. Right now I can keep my Apple TV in a
media closet and use an IR extender with the remote. Will BT 4.0 work 40+ feet
away through walls?

~~~
masklinn
BT4 encourages increased ranges to WIFI-type (~200ft)… whether the remote
supports that is a different question though.

~~~
osi
nice. that would be awesome.

------
draw_down
I haven't bought an Apple TV thus far because I have lots of media that I'm
pretty sure it won't play. But this new interface looks fantastic,
particularly with the improvements to seeking (a hobbyhorse of mine -
underpowered boxes plus crappy software makes it an often frustrating
experience) and the addition of Siri. I don't think the remote looks that
great for games, though.

~~~
dv35z
AppleTV plus a Synology NAS is a pretty great combination. I have a Synology
NAS, with an archive of movies stored on it. It also has a torrent client,
which can pull down media directly. The Synology media service indexes the
movies (finding cover art, genre, ratings), and makes them available for
playing within the LAN. The best part is, the media service is AirPlay-
compatible. Using Synology's (decent) iOS app, I can (1) Search for & initiate
a download using the NAS on-device torrent service, (2) Stream that movie
directly to an Apple TV - all controlled by the iOS device. Pretty slick. I
might also note, because the NAS & AppleTV are connected to the router by
ethernet - not wireless - there is no lag/buffering/etc.

~~~
draw_down
But it won't play Matroska/Ogg/AVI, will it? This is my concern, I have a ton
of stuff in non-MP4 formats.

~~~
lukifer
It's a little roundabout, but I use AirVideo HD [1] with a separate iOS device
to get around this. My media server recompresses content to MP4 in realtime,
which then bounces to the AppleTV via AirPlay, which all works seamlessly for
being so janky. Assuming Apple isn't too tight-fisted with TV app approval
(which remains to be seen), I imagine the AirVideo folks will pull off a
better version of the same thing using a native app.

[1]:
[http://www.inmethod.com/airvideohd/index.html](http://www.inmethod.com/airvideohd/index.html)

------
Kexoth
I only wonder why the baseball app has the current stats still 'hardcoded' in
the video stream & not programmable through the app?

~~~
ascagnel_
The scoreboard is burnt-in by the sports channel carrying the game; to the
best of my knowledge, there's no way to get the raw switched video feed before
the graphics crew touches it.

~~~
Kexoth
I understand that, but the app was from the channel broadcasting the game, so
I guess they have control over it :)

~~~
aroch
They leave the scoreboard because it contains branding for the host team /
stadium and frequently the local affiliate actually running the broadcast. NFL
Gamepass, and both NHL and MLB live air the original broadcast feed.

------
zyxley
The remote looks a whole lot like a Wii controller in disguise. There's even a
wrist strap accessory.

What I'm really curious about is if there will be any support for pairing
multiple remotes. There could be a lot of Wii Sports knockoffs popping up that
would want to take advantage of that...

------
kdamken
All those features are just fine and dandy, but did they finally address the
issue when streaming shows via hulu or netflix the audio and video eventually
gets out of sync and you need to restart the Apple TV to fix it? If so, I'll
order mine right now.

------
zelos
Are TV boxes really a growth market though? This looks kind of interesting,
but most new TVs already have Netflix, Amazon, iPlayer etc. At $149/199 it's
not exactly in Chromecast territory, either.

~~~
rev_bird
Honestly, smart TVs creep me out. The ones I've used have had impossibly
annoying menus and inexplicably slow connections. My parents' smart TV buffers
low-res Netflix shows to the point that it's sometimes unusuable. I brought my
Chromecast over once and it worked perfectly.

Not to mention hooking my television up to the internet means I'll be getting
ads from the software (Hulu, broadcast commercials) AND the hardware. No
thanks.

------
ThomPete
3rd Party game controller

[http://www.apple.com/tv/games-and-more/](http://www.apple.com/tv/games-and-
more/)

------
listic
What hardware should I use if I want to be able to display arbitrary content
on my TV and decide the lifecycle of my hardware myself? Apple TV isn't it,
right?

~~~
feld
Apple TV is most likely it because Apple devices receive OS updates longer
than the competition.

------
lovich
So, does this support connecting to a dlna server or can we only watch content
that comes through an app?

------
sjg007
It be nice to get a dropcam tv app.

------
meatysnapper
A bluetooth remote... oh dear. What happens when it won't sync?

EDIT: I've worked a bunch with bluetooth on iOS and I'm not super confident in
it. IR anyday for me.

~~~
Cshelton
Have you worked a lot with Bluetooth 4.0? Or previous Bluetooth versions? I've
found BT 4.0 is tons better than say...Apple's old keyboard and mouse...which
is a PITA.

~~~
meatysnapper
Yeah, it's better, but 1/50 it doesn't work is super frustrating. Especially
if there are multiple apple tvs in a house, I could see this being a problem
where the remotes get confused.

At work we have a bunch of apple tvs hooked up to presentation tvs/projectors
and we all just use the hdmi cable to the screen directly. I do not trust
Apple to have their wireless issues sorted out this time.

------
tedajax
The Harmonix game demo was beat for beat exactly the same as the Wii and
Kinect demos we've been seeing for years.

------
robotresearcher
I found the fashion shopping segment repulsive.

The physical audience was muted and Eddie Cue took the piss immediately
afterwards.

~~~
devindotcom
Repulsive because of the conspicuous consumption, or something else?

~~~
robotresearcher
The conspicuous consumption exactly. After the gross gold watch anything is
possible I guess.

------
nixpulvis
Hearthstone on my TV please.

~~~
147
You'd be hard countered by Nozdormu.

------
cromwellian
My take on why this has no change in denting the console gaming market:
[https://plus.google.com/+RayCromwell/posts/gENFJnoUUWK](https://plus.google.com/+RayCromwell/posts/gENFJnoUUWK)

Pundits are out in force suggesting that the new Apple TV is going to somehow
put traditional game consoles out of business, but this is a fundamental
misunderstanding of the traditional console market and the difference between
console games and casual gamers.

The iPhone and iPad has massively grown the casual gaming market, bringing
whole new demographics into gaming, and it has disrupted the handheld gaming
market, but it has not done so at the expense of console gaming. The core
defining characteristic of casual gamers is the ability to get into, and out
of a game quickly. They consume games in small bitesize pieces, waiting in
line, in downtime between other activities, not in multi-hour binges. Being
mobile helps this mode of consumption, because your mood for gaming can arise
in many circumstances, and you can instantly satiate it on your mobile phone,
without having to arrange TV time or disturb someone else.

By contrast, TV console gaming has a high transaction cost. You have to travel
to your living room, turn on the TV, find the controllers, boot up the game,
make sure no one else wants to use the TV for other purposes, etc. Moreover,
console games are designed more as a TV experience, for someone to play 30,
60, 120, even 240 minutes at a time.

The new Apple TV, from it's leaked specs, is essentially a casual gaming
machine hooked up to a TV. This might spell trouble for the Nintendo Wii, but
Sony and Microsoft?

The Apple HW is no where close to current generation console level specs, and
anyone creating content for it will be faced with casual gamer price
expectations. How many publishers will want to spend tens of millions of
dollars on triple-A titles and sell them in the app store? That would be like
Marvel selling their next movie for 99 cents. Is EA going to put out a $1.99
version of StarWars Battlefront? They're not going to get console ports or
exclusives of current games until they've exhausted the markets on other
platforms.

So, without content to draw the people who want a 2 hour immersive gaming
experience, they won't get console gamers. But what of casual gamers?

How many people will exchange the convenience of playing Angry Birds on their
phone with playing it on their TV? My guess is, people have moved on from
wanting to sit in front of their TV and that casual gamers are mostly mobile
gamers.

I don't think this product fits either market very well, and the primary use
case of it will remain video streaming, of which is is much more expensive
(and less capable, no 4k streaming) than cheaper streamers already on the
market.

~~~
rsynnott
It seems like you're assuming that all games are basically either Candy Crush
or MGS5. In reality, there's a lot in between, and various indie games which
work well with the touch interface have actually had a fair bit of success on
the iPad at rather premium price points. FTL and Papers Please, say, are
arguably better on the iPad than on PC (both benefit from multitouch), and go
for $10 each.

There's a lot of potential for midrange semi-casual console oriented games
like Rocket League or Starwhal here, and realistically, a surprising number of
consoles are used mostly for that type of game.

I think there's also some long-term potential to hit the triple-A market,
particularly if the console vendors keep up their current ~7 year refresh
cycle. This is obviously a lot less powerful than current-gen consoles, it
triple-As are still big sellers for last-gen consoles, and the gap will close
as Apple refreshes this every year or so. It's far cheaper than a console, and
also smaller and presumably silent. I think it'll find a place.

~~~
cromwellian
The controller alone dooms it to most console games.

Sure, some games work well on the interface. But those games are exactly the
games I don't want on a TV. Do I really want to play Papers Please on a TV
with a tiny touch pad controller remote as opposed to on my lap?

This is too much of a compromise system that sucks at both ends of the
spectrum. It's not as good as the iPad for touch games, and it's not as good
at consoles at FPS, Strategy, Fighters, etc.

Are people really looking for a niche console inbetween?

~~~
rsynnott
To be clear, I don't think people will be playing Papers Please on this; the
interface isn't at all suitable.

There are plenty of iOS compatible controllers already available which
presumably will work with this out of the box.

I see this as being potentially huge for people who want to play some
console-y games but don't want to spend 400$ On a large noisy box. Also, it
could potentially be big for indie devs who want to write console-y games; the
current consoles are still not terribly indie-friendly, and in practice most
popular indie console games started life as PC games.

------
jsonmez
Was hoping for a NES remote...

~~~
seivan
They could have made it like the Wii controllers (but touch d-pad) where you
got a NES controller when holding it with two hands.

That was a pretty clever idea by Nintendo.

------
Tloewald
Just my opinion of course but this is very bad for the consoles. Apple comes
in with a stupidly huge and competitive developer community and everyone in
their target audience already has access to plenty of controllers (iOS
devices). I imagine we'll see big guns moving over quickly (I have four GTA
titles on my iPhone).

~~~
Sumaso
Let me know when you can run GTA 5 on your Apple TV, and then we can talk
about how this is horrible for consoles.

Smartphones have already stolen away the casual gamer. The people playing call
of duty and final fantasy are not the people who will be wowed by the apple
TV.

If you look at sales data for the Wii, there is a ton of people who bought a
Wii, which game with Wii sport and then bought very few games.
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-
selling_Wii_video...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-
selling_Wii_video_games))

This will simply solidify that casual market into iPhone and Android apps.
Consoles have nothing to fear IMO.

~~~
Tloewald
OK: I expect GTAV will run _just fine_ on the new hardware -- the A8 will
crush the PS3 hardware. Obviously it won't run the remaster for the newer
hardware, but really who cares?

The old PS2 GTA titles had to be remastered for the iPhone and run fine on an
iPhone 4.

I for one am sick of slow level loading and endless patches; every time I play
on a console I want to throw something through the screen. And I've yet to see
a single compelling PS4/XB1 title come out (I have high hopes for No Man's
Sky).

------
astaroth360
Universal Search -- Yay, Apple once again catches up to the rest of the group!
Now we get to wait for their crappy-come-lately tv service to come out and
have "revolutionary features" like a queue.

------
masterleep
How about an Apple TV that doesn't need to be rebooted every couple of weeks
to keep working?

