
How Exhaustion Became a Status Symbol - Petiver
https://newrepublic.com/article/135468/exhaustion-became-status-symbol
======
m-i-l
Exhaustion might have become a status symbol for workers, but according to
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11821629](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11821629)
([http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/jun/01/sleep-
ha...](http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/jun/01/sleep-habits-eight-
hours-health-wellness-arianna-huffington) ) getting a good night's sleep is
apparently the new status symbol for the elite.

~~~
uhtred
Sometimes it just seems to uncannily perfect for the ruling classes.

~~~
dominotw
I am not rich, just a regular person. I've slept as much as I've wanted all my
life. Haven't used an alarm in over 10 yrs ( except when I've had to a catch a
flight ect) .

It has constantly puzzled my why people are sleep deprived. why?

~~~
rufius
I suspect a considerable portion can be attributed to FOMO (Fear Of Missing
Out). Whether it's that new Netflix show, some snapchat celebrity, watching
the news, getting stuck in a Wikipedia hole, or going out with people after
working 11 hours. People will burn hours a day on these things.

My wife is guilty of the Netflix and News descriptors mentioned above. I avoid
the news and prefer to read but I still get stuck in the "one more chapter"
hole.

I am curious to know the breakdown of sleeping habits based on some simple
personality distinguishers like introvert vs extrovert.

~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
I'm very introverted. I just go to bed when I'm tired.

------
mrweasel
I honestly think this is changing, it seems that people are becoming better at
letting others know that they need/want to reduce their workload to avoid
exhaustion or burnout.

When I talk to people about wanting to work reduced hours, take a teaching
job, or whatever is required to lower my stress level, I get nothing but
encouragement. Working one self into the ground is starting to be seen as
something stupid people do. Being able to take action before becoming
exhausted is what smart and empowered people do. At least that's the
impression that I get.

Where I see the remaining issue it the lack of accountability for businesses.
If a company push employees to exhaustion that should have hard repercussions
than just gaining a reputation as a horrible place to work.

~~~
ryandrake
I'd love to reduce my workload and avoid exhaustion and burnout. But the
simple fact is, for me, and I would assume most workers, doing so would mean
inevitably slipping out of the middle class. My 50-60 hour weeks barely let me
afford to live a 2-hour commute away from work. I don't know where I'd even
live if I worked/made less.

I know people who aren't working to burnout levels. They're not doing great.
Living paycheck to paycheck and in tiny cramped apartments. Not ready for that
lifestyle, myself.

~~~
mrweasel
Are you making enough to pay your rent if you have to stay home or quit your
job completely if you burnout? I understand the problem, I really do, but no
one is going to reward you for working yourself into the ground.

If you have 60 hours a week, plus 4 hours of transport everyday, you have 16
work day. I feel bad for you, I really do, because those kinds of hours makes
people sink or kills them. Some people handle it better than other of cause,
but you can't have much of a life with those kinds of hours.

I'm not in anyway qualified to advise people like you. Personally though, I'd
quit my job and move. But I'm in a welfare state, there's someone that will
look after me if I'm unemployed, I won't end up without a roof over my head.

I really hope you'll be okay. No one should work themself to exhaustion, and
waste their life like that.

~~~
ryandrake
Thanks I guess, but my comment was not a cry for help or a solicitation of
advise--it was simply an example to put forward against the article's
(presumed) central premise:

> To say that you’re exhausted is to telegraph that you’re important, in
> demand, and successful. It’s akin to the humblebrag of ruefully describing
> yourself as “so busy”

I don't think exhaustion telegraphs any such thing. It's not something people
are proud of and want to sustain. Instead, it's unfortunate normalcy for
workers in 2016. People would gladly give up their exhaustion if they could.

------
xlayn
Sometimes I suspect if this is not planned by media and corporations to get
more from their employees....

I mean how can you defend the point of burnout and depression as a status
symbol?

I read here that on Facebook if you work after 5pm you have to do it hidden
away from others.. because it means something is not ok, either the
estimation, you are not communicating problems or VP/board/president/whoever
want to exploit you.

~~~
CardenB
With the amount of people who come in at noon I highly doubt that is the case.

------
deedubaya
Janis Buck has been kind enough to share his experiences with burnout is
shedding light on a rarely talked about problem. I applaud him and encourage
every hard working human to heed his advice.

[https://m.signalvnoise.com/avoiding-the-
trap-8df59e718f3e#.f...](https://m.signalvnoise.com/avoiding-the-
trap-8df59e718f3e#.fwlbhkvy0)

~~~
moron4hire
It's a problem that you think it's a rarely talked-about problem. You can't go
two weeks on HN without a post from a founder or startup employee "breaking
the silence" on their burnout, getting up-voted to the front page and getting
hundreds of "me too" replies.

Why do we continue to think burnout and depression are unique problems? Why do
we keep letting it happen to ourselves? We style ourselves as so smart, yet we
continue to make the same mistakes, over and over again, and act like it's a
new problem each time.

~~~
enraged_camel
>>Why do we continue to think burnout and depression are unique problems? Why
do we keep letting it happen to ourselves?

The answer is very simple: productivity + youthful optimism.

The fact of the matter is that productivity — that feeling of "getting shit
done" — feels good. Being smart doesn't help. On the contrary, it makes things
worse, because smart people find clever ways to multiply their productivity,
and their sense of pride for doing so contributes to the pleasure and
satisfaction they get from their work.

Now combine this with the fact that software engineers tend to be young. Young
people can endure longer work hours — they tend to not have families and kids
to worry about and their bodies can take more punishment. They also tend to be
idealists and really optimistic about their chances of actually making a
difference in the world. These two factors can cause them to justify insane
work hours, even if they are aware of the dangers of burnout and depression.

~~~
zubat
I think the problem is even a little more subtle. The thing a programmer
should ultimately aim for is to automate themselves out. But there are two
strong disincentives to doing so. One is economic - they don't participate as
a stakeholder equally unless they're cofounders.

The other is a disincentive to improve. By this I mean that becoming a better
programmer means taking on deeper challenges and solving increasingly obscure
concerns and constantly reaching a point where no IRC channel nor Stack
Overflow thread can help you. This takes you out of flow. It's not fun to work
right up at the limit of your ability, you have no hope of bullshitting
through that level of difficulty in crunch mode, and developing those skills
alienates other programmers who are not burdened by the demons you have
fought. Plus the majority of software businesses have arranged themselves
around making some use of fresh, mediocre coding talent, so going too deep and
too specialized can make you less hireable!.

So it works out that prevention with good engineering can grow discouraged in
favor of all nighters.

~~~
internaut
> he thing a programmer should ultimately aim for is to automate themselves
> out.

This is something I ferociously agree and disagree on at the same time.

1\. Yes automating labour inputs is the key to growth. Always has been. That
is the point in your favour.

2\. But paradoxically once you have automated your labour input you grok no
further efficiency gains. Why would you when you've reached '100%' efficiency?

This is a bit counterintuitive. Here is a toy example; suppose I manufacture
hammers at HammerCo Corp. One day I manage to automate all labour relating to
the manufacture of hammers. I am rich and successful as competitors die off.

Then suddenly I myself go bankrupt because a new competitor introduces
hydraulic or pneumatic hammers onto the marketplace in which I had my niche. I
have no expertise to counter the move and cannot defend against it. You don't
comprehend you were in a local maxima.

When a worker closely observes a technological process he or she is involved
in they might notice details (or going the other way, general rules) that
would not be noticed by causal observers. This leads to creative insight that
coupled with capital can allow the invention of new designs and ultimately
technologies.

I guess the same thing is true of programming. If you abstract too much
(something we've been doing for some time now with frameworks/libraries etc)
you lose the thread.

I'm sure somebody else has thought of this before and given it a name.

> Plus the majority of software businesses have arranged themselves around
> making some use of fresh, mediocre coding talent, so going too deep and too
> specialized can make you less hireable!.

So many people get institutionalized into mediocrity. If they don't get you at
school, they'll get you at work. Very few people manage to escape those traps.

------
0xmohit
Recipe for burnout is inverse of recipe for success:
[https://imgur.com/a/5yrMm](https://imgur.com/a/5yrMm)

Understanding Burnout [0] by Christina Maslach [1].

[0]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kLPyV8lBbs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kLPyV8lBbs)

[1] [http://psychology.berkeley.edu/people/christina-
maslach](http://psychology.berkeley.edu/people/christina-maslach)

------
mc32
I was hoping they would explore the karooshi phenomenon and how that came
about and how it affects worker expectations.

