
Living without money - alexandros
http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/article6928744.ece
======
msluyter
Yes, she's still relying on "money" in the form of bartering, but what I found
most interesting is how little she relies on while still claiming to be happy.
Compared to most employed/educated americans, her situation is rather
insecure, and many (most?) of us wouldn't tolerate that. I like articles like
this that remind me that a) my level of security may be illusory and b) even
if I lost it, things might not be so bad.

~~~
Tichy
"Compared to most employed/educated americans, her situation is rather
insecure, and many (most?) of us wouldn't tolerate that. "

I'd like to interview her again when she gets really sick (not that I wish her
to become ill). Also she seems to have children - maybe if she got really bad,
they would take care of her in the end.

~~~
jimbokun
She did address that. She said if she gets cancer, she will die, and that is
that.

I suppose it would be interesting to see if she stayed with that conviction
once she really is sick. But, she's 67 already, and has managed to stick to
some difficult convictions already, so I wouldn't bet against her.

------
theprodigy
Damn title got me interested, but she lives without money because she relies
on bartering.

~~~
gaius
Bartering _with people who participate in the normal economy_ , most
importantly. This won't scale.

~~~
mmphosis
In the _normal_ economy huge bailouts are given to the largest financial
institutions, and even larger amounts of unaccounted for money is given
directly to military and similar vested interests. It seems to me that the
most horrific transactions are rewarded with money: genocide, and destroying
the earth.

 _How much is enough?_

"You Are Welcome to Kill Me, If You Will"
<http://www.angelfire.com/apes/hatrackman/>

------
RevRal
This is closer to living without money: [http://www.amazon.com/Science-
Dumpster-Diving-John-Hoffman/d...](http://www.amazon.com/Science-Dumpster-
Diving-John-Hoffman/dp/1559500883)

I actually own this book. I bought it in highschool because I felt I was
putting my money into things that I didn't need to, and so I could save money
quicker for the cool stuff.

\----

I should add, I ended up _making_ money by fixing broken things. A lot of the
things weren't even broken! I'd take books to bookstores too. If the homeless
only had a place to store broken goods, a place they could fix items, they'd
have a resource they could pool into.

There's an idea.

Also, a bag of produce was always a great treasure. Great for compost.

------
misuba
As others here have pointed out, she's not living without money so much as
making her own, on the spot, when she needs it - in the form of the very
adaptable just-in-time currency known as barter. Douglas Rushkoff's book _Life
Inc._ and his recent talks are all about centralized currency's corrosive (or
rather, extractive) effect on society and are an excellent source of more
economic-hack ideas. Here's his talk from the Web 2.0 conference last week:

<http://rushkoff.com/2009/11/21/radical-abundance/>

------
mattm
“When I needed something, I found that it would just come into my life. My
glasses, for example. There was an optician who was a member of the Tauschring
and he gave them to me in return for some therapy sessions.”

She still lives with money, just not with the physical pieces of paper.

~~~
alanthonyc
Absolutely correct.

And more to the point, it's impossible to live "without money." Money is not a
possession, it's simply a measure of wealth.

And this:

 _When something hurts, I put my hand on it and say to myself I have the power
to heal myself and the pain goes away.”_

~~~
rdtsc
There was a story a while ago when IRS went after someone who was fixing their
friends' and neighbours' cars and didn't ask for money in return. He was
retired and he liked working on cars and he did it for free. IRS claimed he
should have reported it as income.

In respect to money being a measure of wealth, was he "theoretically" becoming
wealthy and acruing "good will". Later by changing his mind and asking for
favors from his neighbors he could "cash in" his "good will" but avoid paying
income and sale taxes on it.

~~~
Tichy
I'd say those bartering services are definitely a gray area or illegal because
they avoid the taxes. But that they even caught on to the accrued good will
seems impressive.

Edit: don't shoot the messenger, I did not create the laws

~~~
dunstad
Taxes are for money, not good will. You created a law taxing friendly favors.

~~~
Tichy
I think you are wrong. Ask a lawyer, though (and again, I did not create the
law).

Trading is friendly, too, btw. In a good trade, both parties are happier after
the trade.

------
dunstad
Submissions dealing with minimalist lifestyles keep recurring on HN. Why does
living with little interest this community so much? I'd speculate that it's
because most people here have some kind of work they love, and this makes them
realize they don't need much else, but I don't really know. It doesn't seem to
interest people outside here as much.

~~~
GHFigs
Affluence masks the fact that the average American's relationship with
material posessions is _fucked up_. I imagine that most of the people who vote
up these stories have an inkling of that in themselves.

People need frequent reminders that material possessions are not necessary for
happiness to counteract the cognitive biases and societal pressures that are
perpetually indicating the opposite. To go without such reminders in the face
of economic reality is extremely stressful, leading to depression, anxiety,
and the growing problem of pathological hoarding. There are even now several
television shows on the subject, one in the same format as the show about drug
interventions. It really can get that bad for otherwise well-adjusted people
trying to cope with the difference between what they need and what they want.

The truth is that you can never have enough of what you don't need, and
sometimes you need the example (if not the experience) of someone living very
close to the edge to illuminate the problem in your own life.

Less charitably: There is a widespread meme associating simpler lifestyle with
productivity, and many people here have a craving, if not an addiction, to
"tips" or "hacks" to enable them to be more productive, or at least _seem_
more productive. Because they profess to have obtained a desirable state,
people with unconventional lifestyles are just as common a subject as famous
historical figures or business leaders. The idea being that if you emulate
something this woman or Thomas Jefferson or Steve Jobs did, you can achieve
great things as they did. The term "productivity porn" is apt.

In essence, many are just looking for another way to get more of what they
want, rather than learning to want less. Two sides of the same coin, so to
speak. Both present at HN.

------
known
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_subsistence_techniques>

