
Changing Your Diet Can Help Tamp Down Depression, Boost Mood - pseudolus
https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2019/10/09/768665411/changing-your-diet-can-help-tamp-down-depression-boost-mood
======
mensetmanusman
Our family starts dinner with salad. For young toddlers, this can be annoying
to them, but they eventually get used to it, especially when they realize they
don’t get the ‘yummy’ food later in the meal unless they finish their salad.

Our guests are always surprised to see the kids eating so much salad for
dinner now, and our oldest recently even stopped adding dressing (8 y.o).

It seems you want to start humans young in the quest to get a good taste for
vegetables, because I know many adults that just can’t stand them (didn’t have
them as children).

~~~
toyg
I had plenty of vegetables as a kid. Still hate (most of) them.

Not everything is learnt.

~~~
r_singh
Do you hate them objectively speaking or in comparison with other food?

~~~
distances
I'm also interested in this as "hate" is such a strong word for food. Say,
brussels sprouts aren't my favourites but I'll empty my plate of them, while
celery stalks have such a strong, unpleasant taste that I'll remove them from
my plate. It's hard to imagine people having this celery-level of distaste to
majority of vegetables, as they are generally very mild-tasting.

~~~
pjc50
There are reports that there is a genetic component to taste - especially for
brussels sprouts. Oregano (cilantro) tasting like soap is another reported
genetic link.

I'm the other way round from you: sprouts taste bitter, but celery is crunchy
nothingness.

~~~
anthonypasq
oregano and cilantro are completely unrelated

~~~
navd
I believe he meant coriander (although coriander is usually the seeds of the
plant)

------
technothrasher
I dunno for me. I try to eat healthy and keep my weight down, but I'm happiest
when I'm eating poorly. I get kind of run down and depressed when it's meal
after meal of veggies and chicken, or just small portions of whatever. A pizza
and a soda, or a huge steak and garlic mashed potatoes will lift my mood
quickly. Then it's very hard to go back to healthy again. There's no question
eating healthy helps my physical wellbeing though, so I do it.

~~~
awinder
Big, big fat disclaimer — not a doctor, not a nutritionist, but I am actively
enrolled in the school of hard knocks.

Soda specifically is going to give you a nice big dose of sugars which your
brain is just going to love. But what you’re also doing is kinda training your
brain — well when I had that massive pure sugar dose I felt great, now I’m
eating chicken and veggies, and wtf where’s the feel-good rush?

There’s nothing really wrong with that either if you’re at peace and doing as
you’re doing, eating a holistically healthy diet. But I do wonder in audience
with clinical depression — if those people might be gravitating towards foods
that offer quick pick-me-ups that make them feel like themselves finally, but
overall make their depression worse especially when the effect is quickly
wears off

~~~
mumblemumble
I'm no expert, either, but I'm pretty well convinced that sugar is addictive.
It offers a similar quick mood bump to what I used to experience from
nicotine. And, like nicotine, it turns out that I felt like crap for a good
long while when I decided to stop consuming it regularly. _And_ , like
nicotine, eventually I pushed through that phase and found that my overall
sense of well-being had noticeably improved.

And one of the dirty tricks our brains play on us is, a quick but short-lived
mood bump is more salient than a constant improvement.

FWIW, for my purposes, "sugar" maybe has more to do with the blood sugar spike
than chemistry. Mashed potatoes would count, insofar as, at least according to
the tables I've seen, mashed potatoes have just about the highest glycemic
index money can buy.

~~~
tayo42
I think I agree with the idea but isn't saying sugar is addictive because you
feel bad with out it is like saying protein is bad because you feel bad with
out. It's somewhat necessary

~~~
chooseaname
Is _added_ sugar necessary, though?

------
schaefer
This year I cut all added-sugar from my diet. I've seen huge reductions in
depression, anxiety, and exhaustion.

~~~
bitL
Did you experience a week-month long increased depression after cutting sugar?
That's quite common and one of the reasons why people can't do it at will.
Sugar does some nice things to neurotransmitters.

~~~
schaefer
My symptoms from sugar* had gotten worse than any perceived withdrawal.

*Extreme fatigue, sometimes persisting through 12 hours of sleep.

~~~
bitL
Check candida or fungi infection; it's possible your gut microbiome has some
deficiency as well. Also, you might be pre-diabetic.

------
Havoc
Been experimenting with this and related concepts (intermittent fasting)
lately and noticed a pretty swift improvement in mental fog, joint pains and
reduced need for sleep, faster recovery from exercise.

Can't speculate as to where the benefit is coming from (IF or maybe I was
previously eating something I'm sensitive to?) but clearly something is
working.

~~~
neogodless
Did you change the contents of your meals when you changed to fasting, or kept
them the same over different time periods?

For myself, intermittent fasting meant it was easier for me to maintain weight
rather than gaining, largely because I removed a 400 calorie meal, a 150
calorie morning snack, and a 9PM bedtime snack from my diet.

However, when I changed diets completely for a month during a Whole30, I
dropped quite a few pounds and felt much better as far as mental clarity and
energy levels.

(Unfortunately I have not maintained that healthier diet, but plan to attempt
it again!)

~~~
Havoc
>Did you change the contents of your meals when you changed to fasting

Changed it. Currently eating a small subset of foods that I'm likely not
sensitive to (chicken, rice, mushroom, various veg, blueberries, figs). That
seems balanced enough that I can probably safely sustain it for a while.
Googling kicked up a bunch of directly contradictory info on what helps w/
inflammation so I'm just winging it.

But at about 700/2000 calorie intake. All 700 at night, so fasting 23 hrs per
day basically while running a crazy high deficit. Surprised how normal/better
I feel with that crazy schedule.

~~~
neogodless
OK. So it's harder to narrow down where the benefits are coming from. It could
be a combination of the two!

But I find FODMAPs and Whole 30 to be useful starting places. Glad you found a
collection of foods that work for you. (And I love mushrooms, blueberries and
figs!)

~~~
Havoc
I did look at FODMAPs too. I think it caused much of my gas. So took some
inspiration from that, but it's tricky:

e.g. FODMAPs says definitely no garlic. While a Harvard "endorsed" anti-
inflammation diet said eat lots of garlic.

Beans, lentils etc...it's all over the place depending on whom you listen to.
:(

I'll have a look at Whole30 - never heard of it. Also seeing lots of chat
about "Dr. Greger's Daily Dozen" on /r/plantbaseddiet

>Glad you found a collection of foods that work for you.

So far so good. :)

------
Merrill
From the PLOS paper >To assist in complying with diet recommendations,
participants in the diet change group each received a small hamper of food
items including olive oil (Cobram Estate), natural nut butter (Mayvers), nuts
and seeds (walnuts, almonds, pepitas, sunflower seeds) and spices (cinnamon,
turmeric). They were told to keep their shopping receipts in order to receive
a $60 gift card as reimbursement for study foods. Participants in the diet
change group also received a brief, 5-minute phone call on Day 7, Day 14 to
ask if they were having any difficulties adhering to the diet and troubleshoot
problems with reference to the prescribed handouts. Participants in the
habitual diet group were given no instructions regarding diet, and were simply
asked to return after 3 weeks for follow up.
[https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0222768)

So if you enroll subjects in a study, give them attention, free food, gift
card, phone calls, etc. then after three weeks they will feel less depressed
than a group of subjects for which nothing was done.

It would be more convincing if they had a third group that they fed blue
cheese bacon cheeseburgers, french fries, diet Coke and Lil Debbie cakes from
a convenience store. I'd bet even money that the third group would have been
less depressed too.

~~~
CreepGin
Great point! I bet the junk food group will still feel better (less depressed)
than the group being left alone, unless they were somehow constantly being
reminded about the "bad quality" of the food they were eating. It's all about
long-term vs short-term state of mind. And three weeks is just too short.

~~~
throwaway_law
>t's all about long-term vs short-term state of mind.

I think the point is the "state of mind" is a product of everything else going
on in the body. It will be infinitely more difficult to have a positive state
of mind while your body is contending with chronic inflammation and your
unhealthy gut isn't producing serotonin. Your right 3 weeks isn't enough, but
biomarkers can be dramatically improved in 3 weeks with change of diet,
especially with respect to chronic inflammation.

~~~
Merrill
They did a 3-month followup: >Of the 33 individuals who were able to be
contacted, 7 (21.2%) said they had maintained the diet, 19 (57.6%) reported
they had maintained some aspects of the diet and 7 (21.2%) reported they had
not maintained the diet. There was no difference in depression outcomes
between these 3 groups (chi-square >.05).

They don't seem to have done the 3-month follow up with the control group.

~~~
AstralStorm
It's super tiny group anyway - the experiment is highly underpowered even if
they did check control group.

Most importantly it is not a cross design, and even that would need in excess
of hundred patients to be meaningful. As is they can be measuring the effect
of attention and any kind of change on depression, given some genetic,
phenotypical or environmental susceptibilities incidentally found in their
treatment group.

Meaning the conclusion is not possible to generalize.

These tiny studies, especially of low quality and poor design are an annoying
waste of time and money.

------
sings
As an Australian I’m stoked to see NPR cite research happening in universities
here.

Also interesting to think about how you would possibly conduct a blind study
for diet.

------
softwaredoug
Isn’t the placebo effect strong here? It’s hard to have any kind of sham
Mediterranean diet for the control participants. The dieters know they are
dieters, doesn’t that knowledge- “I’m doing something for my health” influence
the depression as much as nutrition?

~~~
systematical
I don't doubt the benefits of a good diet, I've seen it myself, but having
been depressed enough to where I couldn't even eat, there was no way munching
on some whole grains or kale was going to bring me out of it. Only a more put-
together person can start thinking about improving their diet. Which I
eventually did, but that was long after I escaped the worst of my depression.

~~~
projektir
Yeah, I'm never too impressed by these. Once I have control over my depressive
states, I can start looking at things like exercise or diet. But if I'm highly
depressed, those things end up on the back burner and I'm much more interested
in solutions to _that_.

------
filleduchaos
Not particularly surprising. The microbiome–gut–brain axis has been a subject
of interest for a decade and a half now, and it's been suggested that the
influence that mood disorders have on appetite and sleep actually swings both
ways.

Anecdotally, taking deliberate control of my meal habits (and sticking to them
even when my appetite goes nuts) really helps episodes go easier.

------
journalctl
If only I weren’t so depressed I could summon the energy to actually give a
crap about my diet. I know I should, but when you’re burnt out and have zero
energy, Chipotle is just easier than driving to a grocery store, buying
ingredients, ferrying them home, then preparing them into something decent.
Oh, and don’t forget the inevitable dishes cleanup.

~~~
x2f10
I hate that I can relate. There are times where it seems like I need Herculean
energy to shop + cook a meal. Not to mention, doing so removes one of the only
events I look forward to (pizza, ice cream, etc).

------
thorwasdfasdf
There's been numerous studies showing that Magnesium (and the balance of
magnesium vs calcium) plays a crucial role in many bodily function including
brain functions and reducing depression.

I suspect what's happening here is that these people are eating more veggies
and nuts and whole grains thus getting more magnesium in their diet.

------
mrfusion
A while back I tracked my mood and a bunch of other variables I thought might
be related. And what was most surprising when I reviewed six months of data
was that total calories was most correlated with being in a good mood.

I guess at least for me a calorie deficit is really depressing.

Also days I ate strawberries were also correlated. Go figure.

------
bonoboTP
When they say inflammation - which I've read about several times in similar
"soft medicine" contexts - do they mean the same inflammation as
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflammation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflammation)
?

"The five classical signs of inflammation are heat, pain, redness, swelling,
and loss of function" \-- surely you don't have these when you eat processed
food.

~~~
MS90
Yes, inflammation is inflammation. That said, the symptoms described in the
wiki are more related to acute inflammation, such as swelling after you hit
your head on a cabinet or something like that.

Dietarily, they're referring more to chronic inflammation, there's info about
it here under "chronic inflammation":

[https://www.livescience.com/52344-inflammation.html](https://www.livescience.com/52344-inflammation.html)

------
greendestiny_re
I recommend eating colorful foods, such as cucumber (green), eggplant
(purple), lemon (yellow) and so on. Pungent flavors help as well, such as
clove, garlic and ginger.

From what I gathered, preparing and eating colorful, pungent food constitutes
a large part of enjoyment in the meal, which helps curb hunger and sparks joie
de vivre. It's no coincidence that we call "fast food" that way; it's meant to
leave us unsatiated and craving for more.

------
SkyPuncher
I've noticed the biggest indicator of my mood is my carb intake.

I started off trying Keto, but found it very hard to maintain. Now, I simply
skip the high carb portions of my meals. Skip potatoes, skip rice, avoid pasta
(although black bean pasta is a very good stand in). If I'm craving fast food
(damn you Chick-fil-a), simply skipping the fries makes a night and day
difference about how terrible I'll feel later in the day.

------
iikoolpp
I eat every 20 hours or so nowadays, I think that qualifies as "intermittent
starvation" for people here. I still feel like shit.

~~~
CDSlice
Are you getting enough calories? While fasting can be good for you I highly
doubt slowly starving yourself is going to improve your mental state.

------
11235813213455
Talking about boosting / anti-depression food, I got those
[https://imgur.com/HJFqlsX](https://imgur.com/HJFqlsX) delicious kakis (called
persimmons too) in a friend's garden. I'm thankful to nature for this
amazingly delicious and nutritive thing

Eat any seasoned fruit, at will

------
shultays
I saw the help of changing diet as well. Along with going to the gym I think
both are very helpful for fighting depression.

I am aware that doing anything at all seems very hard when you are depressed
but once you start it and see how helpful it is, it gives you even more
ambition to continue

------
r-w
What a coincidence that this article pops up just after a daylong fast for Yom
Kippur…

------
mogadsheu
Only tangentially related: has anyone else been getting tons of WSJ sponsored
articles on Facebook about how ramen can stave off depression?

FB targeting algorithm is only accurate if they think I like ramen :)

------
Havoc
Also, on the topic of depression - today is world mental health day! Good
timing there

------
acollins1331
How is this science

