

Sparrow for Windows was just a few weeks away - ehamberg
http://everydaypanos.com/post/27703705803/shh-sparrow-for-windows-was-just-a-few-weeks-away

======
redcircle
Something doesn't make sense. From the ambiguity of your description, it
sounds as though you own the code, and that you had no formal business
relationship with Sparrow, and that you accepted no money from Sparrow (it is
really strange that Sparrow would even encourage you into such a position, and
that you would put yourself there --- you left them in the situation where
they could turn your work down, and develop their own Windows client). If that
is all true, then the code is yours, and you can turn it into a Sparrow
replacement. But you are giving off a sense of finality, as if what you wrote
is useless. This confuses me. Think like an entrepreneur, not an employee. If
you have roadblocks to selling the e-mail client yourself, overcome them
(e.g., if you are worried about UI copyright, then change your UI, and then
sell it). Once you earn money from it, move to writing a Mac version, an iOS
version, etc.

~~~
mronge
I do not believe this was officially supported by the Sparrow team as he make
it seems...

~~~
everydaypanos
The truth is the Sparrow team is a Mac only team. They didn't care much for
Windows. If at all. To test the Windows builds, Din Viet used a virtual
machine running inside OS X..

~~~
EarlofGrey
Yeah but where did you come in? Why you? Why were you working on a product
that you had nothing to do with?

I just don't get it at all. Why did you give free labour and free time to a
for profit company you had no stake in? See why we are confused?

------
gue5t
Open-source it. If they're really abandoning the product but actually care
about improving the status of e-mail clients they won't send you a C&D.

If they don't care about that as much as they care about preventing
unauthorized use of their code, then everyone loses. But you can't know
what'll happen unless you take action.

~~~
sil3ntmac
They were bought by Google, why would Google do that..?

~~~
mtrn
They did it with reMail (<http://www.remail.com/>), too.

~~~
sil3ntmac
Did not know that, +1 for google

------
chmike
Who owns this code ? Where you paid to develop this code ? If the OP was paid,
his code belongs to google. In anycase a copyright will most likely apply to
the user interface if it is a copycat of the Mac sparrow app.

If the OP manage to change it and eventually simplify it to make it
significntly different, than the copyright won't hold and you own it as the
author. The OP may then create his own brand. He should create his own app if
the code doesn't belong to goggle.

I would suggest to make it a payed app, twice the price than Sparrow, and use
the earned money to develop android, iOS and iMac version. If google offer to
hire him, then request that the code is open source. Maybe Microsoft will have
an offer to make too.

Of course Panos could also provide the app for free but he needs to earn a
fair money for his work and for a living if we want him to continue and
sustain the brand. Maybe another company could make an offer like Canonical
for instance.

~~~
Kerrick
> If the OP was paid, his code belongs to google.

That's wrong. Whether or not the OP was paid, his code belongs to him, unless
one of these two things are true: first, if there was a contract that
transferred copyright; second, if the OP was supervised in an employee-like
role (work-for-hire).

That's how it is in the U.S. at least, and I believe France is a part of the
Berne Convention, so it should be the same or similar there.

------
molmalo
Before doing anything, I think that you should talk to a lawyer because there
are a lot of questions to be answered.

Who owns the code? Are you free to open-source it or rebrand it? Did you have
any kind of contract?What about your employment situation? Did your meetings
with Sparrow's staff, and them sharing artwork, constituted some kind of
licensing, agreement or anything? Did Google know about your project?

I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know any of the answers. Does anyone know what
would happen if they claim that they own the code? Maybe they would have to
recognize him as an employee, or a contractor and then pay him for his work.
If they allow him to use the code as he pleases, the fact of the company
encouraging him to develop the port, and even meeting and sharing some
artwork, would it mean that they granted him an implicit licence?

Either way, probably Google's legal team has some work to do.

------
gonzo
Hate to be that guy, but:

[http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/21/3174803/sparrow-for-
window...](http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/21/3174803/sparrow-for-windows-
never-existed)

~~~
iamdave
Corollary: I absolutely hate it when media outlets use the term "a source".
Yes, I do understand that sometimes 'source' is used because the other party
requested or requires anonymity for the continuity of their current endeavors
or whatever other reason.

But with the current state of news delivery operating at Warp 10 with the
added bonus of somehow being able to run a hyperdrive engine at the same time
and less research actively being done before a story is thoroughly debunked,
it irks me.

~~~
m0nastic
I think it's especially silly in the case of a "source" from a really small
startup.

This isn't like a "source" at Proctor and Gamble, it's what, like one of five
people?

~~~
pbiggar
Or their friends, or people they spoke to at a party or conference. And so on.

~~~
m0nastic
I suppose.

So a person contacts the article author and says "I spoke with them at a party
or conference, and they denied knowing anything about a Windows client."

That's a credible source? Of course not.

~~~
pbiggar
Credibility isn't binary. What's credible for one news organization says
nothing about what another organization/journalist/court-of-law-in-the-UK
believes is credible.

There are many more ways to establish credibility - does your story add up, do
you know things you wouldn't without having inside info, can the journalist
verify that info with a known insider, have you been a credible source in the
past, are you personally known to the journalist, are you a known person in
the community, do you have a proven connection to the primary source, etc.

------
ricardobeat
> I know that Europe cannot really maintain a talented team like the one Dom
> and Dinh Viet would need to take Sparrow to new heights.

Really? _All of Europe_ can't provide a team for an e-mail client?

~~~
bad_user
Google disagrees. The author should really check out the work done by their
office in Zurich, which also works on GMail.

------
mekwall
If this would ever have been released, it would have failed and die a painful
death. As stated by the author, he "stole" (which means he faked) many UI
elements from OSX because he "dislikes Metro". This is just wrong and bad
practice when developing native applications. A UI designer should never
design a UI for an OS which he/she dislikes to begin with, it will just end
badly.

What makes Sparrow on OSX and iOS so good is that it stays true to its OS;
that it feels native and blends into the OS with such grace that it's a thrill
to work with. In contrast, web apps doesn't suffer much from this since users
are used to them looking different, as long as they exist inside their browser
environment. But for Sparrow to be successful on Windows, these rules would
apply...

------
statictype
Since hearing that Thunderbird is going to start collecting dust, I've been
looking for a decent Windows client and was wishing Sparrow worked on Windows.
So this makes me even more sad. I wish Google would do the right thing and
open-source it like they did with Etherpad.

~~~
rvkennedy
Comms (www.comms.io) is my project, it's a lightweight IMAP client for which
Windows is the initial platform. The alpha is a few weeks off.

~~~
torpy
Just a heads up, 'comms.io' (without the www.) sends you to a bluehost landing
page.

------
dotcoma
What are you left with, Panos? Their source code you can't use anymore, and
your code which is now worthless? You're left with nothing, in other words?
You are not just going to accept this, right? Do something! :)

~~~
everydaypanos
:)

------
Scene_Cast2
The IP situation is interesting. Was there any code re-use? Does the code you
wrote belong to Sparrow? If the answer is "no" to both, you may be able to
release it.

~~~
everydaypanos
No code was reused. Just Jean-Marc's artwork. Plan was to port LibEtPan in
Windows and replace current email engine during Beta, but.. you know.. dead.

~~~
dbecker
Why is it dead. The Sparrow team won't work on it any more... but they weren't
going to work on the Windows version anyway. If you were writing it, why not
keep doing so?

Obviously you might have to change the artwork, since that belongs to google
now. Otherwise, it sounds like this is just an email client that YOU wrote.

------
dvhh
sound unlikely, a proper sparrow port would use the etpan lib (there are
windows port apparently), instead of starting the email protocol almost from
scratch as the author suggest.

------
seltzered_
dude. kickstarter. go.

Sparrow is one of the few reasons I stick with using a mac, and am somewhat
fearful of taking another job using windows again. I even tried having outlook
configured in a mode to look more sparrow-ish to realize it didn't work
without a real "sparrow" experience.

~~~
huhtenberg
Dude is in Greece, so no Kickstarter for dude.

~~~
reitzensteinm
Indiegogo then. It's still a good idea.

------
mrslx
My hunch is Sparrow's offered a compelling enough user experience to be a
rival to gmail's UI, by being the primary point of use for Business and
Personal customers, they were not being exposed to Google's revenue points
(AdSense and cookie/re-targeting technologies).

------
kirillzubovsky
I have heard from some reliable sources that Microsoft is quite happy to pay
for design+development of applications that are built for their new devices
(wp7/8). Perhaps you could reach out to them and see if they would acquire
your work. It's not the best free market alternative, but it might get your
product to live and prosper. Imagine, if Sparrow (Microsoft eMail Light) gets
included in every new tablet? Sure, they've got Outlook, but maybe users would
dig a lighter (simpler) new alternative?

------
brettvallis
I get what the OP is hassled about. He committed time and energy on developing
a product, time and energy he wasn't paid for, but it didn't matter because he
believed in the product. He was going to prove that Windows apps could look
good, and he was tieing it into an existing, loved brand. In other words, he
was doing good, for people who appreciated it. That was enough for him.

However, since it's been bought out by Google, he's lost all the passion for
the application. It's just going to get swallowed up by the shark, and no-one
really cares. So, what is the point of releasing an awesome version for it?

Obviously, he's got plenty of options at this time. But, the motivation, the
passion, the brand recognition, the love, it's all disappeared. Take the magic
out of the cauldron and you're just left with boiled, icky bits.

I don't know enough about the application, or the platform, etc, but open-
source it, and make it a client that can connect to multiple platforms. Sounds
good?

------
waseemsadiq
Suggestion for you: help out on this other e-mail client that exists asopen
source and is desperate in need of some patching:
<https://github.com/waseems/inbox2_desktop> :-)) (disclaimer: I am the
original author of inbox2)

------
jsz0
I wouldn't be surprised at all if an impending Windows client was part of the
timing for this deal. A resurgence of people using stand alone clients on PCs
that don't display ads could have been a big problem for Google's business
model. If users really demand stand-alone clients I think Google could reverse
course and re-release Sparrow with ad support in the near future. I like
Sparrow but it's nothing so special that it cannot be easily cloned. Google
won't be able to just take that option off the table unless they want to find
ways to lock-out third party clients from utilizing extended GMail
functionality.

------
Heinleinian
Isn't all software, always, just a few weeks away? lol.

------
bad_user

        It kind of seems like the ‘new GMail’ that ought 
        to be native for all devices(the trend is clearly for
        that), was galloped by it’s bigger competitor.
        ...
        In fact [GMail] may get even worse since 
        it’s inception was a mighty web app for email.
    

No dude, GMail is first and foremost an email _service_. What GMail provides
is so much bigger than anything a "native" email client can ever accomplish.

I see this mentality coming from developers all the time, but you're really
not seeing the forest from the trees.

I also watched the YouTube videos showing the interface in action. This client
might actually be great, however I couldn't see anything there to blow me
away, just some icons with no labels and I hate icons with no labels (the
first thing I did in GMail's new interface was to search for the option that
restores labeled buttons).

------
jergosh
"Another feeling is the Google effect: I know that Europe cannot really
maintain a talented team like the one Dom and Dinh Viet would need to take
Sparrow to new heights. "

Is this a serious remark (honest question)?

------
dnyanesh
Release it in the wild!

------
Sapemeg
this is very sad... google acts like a giant black-howl they are prepared to
take on any rival startup take their ideas and on most cases throw them in the
bin! παρόλ' αυτα μπράβο Πάνο!

------
hpguy
So Google bought Sparrow so that they would never release this?

------
franzus
Wow, that Windows version was certainly ugly. Why have Windows applications
always to suck design wise?

~~~
mekwall
I think you are confusing user interface design with user experience (UX). A
text-book UI should be intuitive and easy to use, but that doesn't necessarily
mean it will be aesthetically pleasing to everyone. I work with UX, and one of
the biggest challeges i face is to find a good balance between functionality
and aesthetics; what will give the general user base the best possible
experience.

But you have to realize that it is impossible to satisfy everyone, especially
when looking at OSX-users and Windows-users, who have such different tastes
and demands. Then its probably better to have two different UIs that can bring
a great (but not necessarily the same) user experience to two very different
crowds.

~~~
franzus
> I think you are confusing user interface design with user experience (UX)

That's just an excuse for people to make ugly UIs. Aesthetics is an integral
part of usability. A UX designer who has no clue about aesthetics is
worthless.

~~~
mekwall
What's aesthetically pleasing to a OSX-user might be something totally
different to a Windows-user. A UX designer who doesn't know that, is worthless
as well ;)

------
WayneDB
Windows has more functional and consistent interface standards than any other
platform. It's predictable and utilitarian...in other words, the exact
opposite of OS X and "the web".

In Windows, keyboard acceleration is a first class citizen too and it works
better than on any other platform.

