
Electric Scooters in New York City? They Just Might Work - petethomas
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/18/opinion/electric-scooters-new-york-city.html
======
charlieok
Jump just landed in Denver a few days ago with dockless electric bikes. I've
taken two rides so far.

These blow scooters right out of the water. I can get exercise and extra speed
by pedaling along with the motor. Their app passed the ride data to my
iPhone's health app for activity tracking.

Other bonuses come to mind. If it should run out of charge, it would be a
heavy bike. People don't look as dorky on bikes.

I don't get why people are angry about scooters, but these E-bikes are awesome
and I'd much rather use them given the choice. I'd love to see E-bikes take
over as the dominant way of getting around.

P.S. Almost forgot to mention: that thing was fun! (No, I'm not affiliated
with Jump/Uber).

~~~
lostcolony
My wife and I purchased a pair of e-bikes (I haven't seen any for rent where
we are except at bike shops, and I can bike to work which makes owning one
make sense), and yeah, they are -insanely- fun. Even for exercise they're
great; you can pedal without pedal assist...but hit a steep hill, or have to
stop due to traffic, having a throttle to get you moving just makes everything
so much smoother.

~~~
Qwertie
My fitness has improved so much since owning an ebike. Yeah it's not nearly as
much work as using a regular bike but unless you are using a bike all the time
you are going to see a massive improvement from switching from a car to an
ebike.

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buckhx
I bought a Xiaomi scooter in June and received it a few weeks ago. I live in
Williamsburg and work in SoHo/Chinatown, and my commute is 15-20 mins compared
to 25-30 on the subway (L -> NQR). I obey biking rules and only push if I am
on a sidewalk. I haven't felt unsafe outside of riding at night in Brooklyn
and not feeling visible enough. Overall it's been great, but can imagine it
getting out of hand if they were readily available. For example, I was at the
Farmers Market in Union Square last Weds a couple of people were riding
powered scooters through the crowd clearly NGAF.

~~~
schrodinger
I bought one recently too, and the folding mechanism is awfully loose, have
you had the same problem?

~~~
hadlock
There are several open source shims on thingverse that may be printed, they
are also available to purchase online, periodically. The two major "upgrades"
for the xiaomi m365 (what bird uses, is about $500 shipped online) is the shim
for the folding mechanism, and then a sort of wear plate for the inside of the
rear fender to protect the brake light cable. Both bought together usually
cost $10 usd.

Typically the shims come in packs of three, depending on how much gap is
present in your folding mechanism.

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torgian
Pfft. Might work? Will work. If Shanghai and Beijing can operate on electric
scooters, so can New York.

Although I’d be more afraid in New York. People lack situational awareness
there

~~~
jmknoll
I’m not 100% sure, because I haven’t been to the US recently, but I think
there’s a difference in terminology.

The scooters in the article are talking about the little folding things that
you stand on, right? Like Razor scooters from the 90’s but electric. These are
basically non-existent in Chinese cities. The main form of transport here is
electric motorbikes, which people sometimes call scooters.

~~~
sschueller
Just scooter it the wrong term. Lime, Bird etc. should call them what they
are: Kick Scooter or Trottinette.

We have dockless Electric Scooters[3] ("Vespa" style motorcycles that require
a driving permit) here in Switzerland and we have Lime Trottinettes so it can
get confusing if not using the right term.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scooter_(motorcycle)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scooter_\(motorcycle\))
[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kick_scooter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kick_scooter)
[3] [https://www.mobility.ch/en/how-it-works/rent-a-
scooter/](https://www.mobility.ch/en/how-it-works/rent-a-scooter/)

~~~
mercutio2
I have never heard either term used in the US.

Language as actually practiced is messy, and has large regional variation.
It’s generally the right marketing move to name something the way your
customers will understand it, not the way a taxonomist would prefer.

But I agree Lime/Bird should do a good job localizing, and not be lazy about
naming in other markets!

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roel_v
In Amsterdam, scooter usage (not electric, just scooters in general)
skyrocketed when a famous criminal was shown riding one in some pictures
surrounding a heavily publicized case (meaning, these pictures were in the
news for literally years on end). It's funny how some freak occurrence
influences something that affects so many people. Maybe someone should pay
today's equivalent of John Gotti to 'accidentally' get caught on photo riding
one, see if it can be replicated...

~~~
rapnie
You are of course referring to Willem Holleeder [0], involved in the
kidnapping of Freddy Heineken, and these kinds of famous snapshots of him on a
scooter [1]. I never knew this started the scooter trend, but I see that
'holleeder-scooter' has become an oft-used word to indicate the brand.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willem_Holleeder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willem_Holleeder)

[1]
[https://duckduckgo.com/?q=holleeder+scooter&t=fpas&iax=image...](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=holleeder+scooter&t=fpas&iax=images&ia=images)

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mcgoooo
I have one In London, and I've done 3000k on them, they are phenomenal. I
would advise against the Xiaomi though, they break a lot, I invested in an
inokim light 2 and it's solid. Regardless of the problems of them, it's
definitely a transport solution.

~~~
mrkipling
What's the reaction of other people like? I'm thinking of getting one.

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deevolution
They would only be usable half the year because of whether. Also, have to
consider that there are lots of people in NYC that will simply scrap the
scooters for parts and spare change.

~~~
kawfey
That happens in every venue where electric scooters and dockless bikes are.
The company could care less, since they have millions to spend to propagate
the brand in lieu of profits.

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neom
Given at least once a week I have to help a blind person or a person in a
wheel chair navigate an already challenging built environment. And frequently
see someone on a bike-share wobbling the wrong way down a hectic Manhattan
street into messenger bikes and yellow cabs, I hope the roll out is considered
with these people in mind.

~~~
wild_preference
I tithe half my income to people in need and volunteer about 30 hours per week
to the local soup kitchen (would do more but my free time is tied up in Darfur
mission work) and I, too, hope NYC will keep the people you help out in mind
as well.

~~~
neom
haaaaaaaahahaha. Ok, fair. I should have said at lease once a month (as that's
true) or *often. Thankfully the soup kitchen to support missions in Darfur
that I volunteer at 6 days a week only has a small flight of stairs I have to
carry the elderly folks up.

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neonate
[http://archive.is/27LkO](http://archive.is/27LkO)

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tomasmik
We've had scooters and bikes that you can rent for quite a while now and its
pretty cool

~~~
GoMonad
In which city are you?

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cletus
So living in NYC for almost 8 years now I've become pretty anti-cyclist.
Here's a short list of beefs that spring to mind:

\- Cyclists riding on sidewalks. Apart from delivery people, a cyclist should
never ride on the sidewalk in Manhattan. Ever. If you find yourself riding on
the sidewalk, just don't take the bike out. Bikes are for roads. The article
even mentions how sidewalks are narrow.

\- Bike lanes (IMHO) have made traffic significantly worse because they're
thoroughly underutilized and basically kill a lane of traffic (on the avenues
at least).

\- The article also mentions how pedestrians spill over to the streets and
bike lanes. Yep, that'll happen. Particularly if the city fills the sidewalk
with more newsstands and allows businesses to spill out onto the sidewalk.
There should be a rule that there can be no obstruction on an avenue of major
street (think 14th, 23rd, 34th, 42nd, 57th, 59th, etc) that reduces the clear
space to anything less than ten feet. On other streets? 6-8 feet.

\- I generally find the delivery cyclists are fine. It's the commuters and
tourists who need to be removed from the road. Why? Well tourists are just
oblivious and will ride down a bike lane 3 abreast at 6 miles an hour. But the
commuters are just plain assholes, as a whole group.

Go see this for yourself on the Brooklyn Bridge. This is a place that at any
reasonable time is going to be packed with tourists. And just count (it won't
take long) how often you see a cyclist knock a pedestrian who has "dared" to
spill over into the bike lane. Honestly, bikes should just be banned
completely from the Brooklyn Bridge.

\- Cyclists will ride down bike lanes and streets the wrong way (yes bike
lanes have directions) and run red lights and give you attitude if you're in
the way as a pedestrian even though you have right of way.

So am I excited about the prospect of scooters? Hell, no. I've been to SF and
seen these littered all over the place. The sidewalks in Manhattan (in
particular) are congested enough that we don't need scooters littered on them.

At least Citibikes have to go into bays.

But above all of this the biggest problems in NYC are the continued
subsidization of car ownership. If it were up to me I would:

\- Eliminate all street parking

\- Loading zones only

\- Tax private car ownership for anyone living below 125th street.

\- Have congestion pricing (the article mentions this too).

\- Get rid of the stupid turn lanes (where pedestrians have to take turns with
cars turning crossing the street so as a pedestrian you only get to cross 1/4
of the time instead of 1/2).

But please just say no to scooters.

~~~
frgewut
> Bike lanes (IMHO) have made traffic significantly worse because they're
> thoroughly underutilized and basically kill a lane of traffic (on the
> avenues at least).

Underutilized bike lanes is mostly an illusion. If a bicycle lane would be
100% utilized that would mean tens of thousands of people traveling each day.
Probably equal to capacity of multiple car lanes.

~~~
shard972
Ok but if we determined the bike lanes were 0.00001% utilized while the car
lanes are 80% utilized that doesn't make it an illusion.

Probably not that bad in NY but in the places i have lived i could go months
without seeing someone on a particular bike lane that hugged the road for a
few KMs

~~~
KozmoNau7
It is very likely because the connecting bike infrastructure is either not
very good or completely lacking.

You can't make good bike infrastructure by simply painting a few bike lanes
here and there that "hug the road for a few KMs". You need to look at a bigger
picture and make bike-friendly connections between popular hotspots.

On top of this, there's apparently still a perception in the US that bikes are
either for kids or purely for exercise, they're not really thought of as
everyday transportation. Everyone with an interest in improving city traffic
should come visit Amsterdam or Copenhagen. See how infrastructure with a
primary focus on bicycles and public transit works, and which design decisions
have helped shape city traffic.

An issue further compounding this is the insistence that bikes are completely
the same as cars, and should follow the exact same rules. This leads to
extremely dangerous lane changes and left turns, because cyclists are expected
to use the car's left turn lanes. This danger can be easily mitigated by
requiring cyclists to make hook turns[¤] instead. We do this in most European
countries, and it's significantly safer for everyone involved.

[¤][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hook_turn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hook_turn)

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kurthr
Scooters are great, because you can ride them anywhere... on the street, in
bike lanes, on the side walk, or across other people's lawns. I just found out
you can even ride them the wrong way up a parking garage exit ramp spiral!

/sarcasm> actually, I guess the scooters are fine, it's just the people paying
$/15min feel entitled to do whatever, and there are no consequences. I've got
more respect for those modding them into free rides and I don't live in
Manhattan.

~~~
paulie_a
Also red lights and stop signs become optional.

~~~
hamandcheese
This is true of bicyclists as well.

~~~
user111233
And cars. Also trucks. The pedestrian crossing near me has a warning sign
stuck up by someone telling you to look behind you for trucks running red
lights while turning.

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hoorayimhelping
Would have loved to have had a bird or a lime scooter when I got off the F and
had to walk to Alphabet City in the 90 degree 100% humidity summer heat the
other day. That hot 20 minute walk would have been a pleasant 10 minute
scooter ride with a breeze.

