

Mass produced Gasoline from Algae is a reality next year in 2012 - ck2
http://www.pbs.org/nbr/site/onair/transcripts/algae_alternative_energy_source_110426/

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kwantam
My girlfriend is a Ph.D. candidate doing work related to algae biofuels. Her
experience indicates that at present biofuel production is still too
inefficient (the algae aren't easily persuaded to produce massive stores of
triglycerides) and extraction is costly (the present methods for extracting
the triglycerides don't scale well at all), and that isn't changing fast
enough to make algae viable in anything like the next year.

Moreover, she claims that a lot of research groups are actually too optimistic
in the numbers they report because their analysis methods are questionable.
This claim is related to the fact that she's working on a new analysis method
that gives far better resolution of triglycerides versus contaminants
(chlorophyll, phospholipids, et cetera) and as a result she's come across a
lot of problem cases that the present method can't discern.

In short, she's familiar with the state of the art and she's pessimistic that
it will ever go anywhere, let alone within the next year.

~~~
ck2
Wouldn't any corporation with a breakthrough in production keep it under wraps
until they had momentum?

This business is doing it 20 acres at a time in perfect conditions, I've never
read of such a massive undertaking before.

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nicpottier
Full disclosure, I bought and ran a Golf TDI on biodiesel for quite a few
years.

On algae sourced biodiesel: let's talk when it is actually in production.

They have been talking about algae sourced biodiesel for more than a decade.
There was work done by the DOE way back when showing it /should/ be possible
at scale.

But nobody seems to be able to make the final leap, and that's the rub. So
this is nothing new.. people have been making expensive algae fuel for years,
and everybody says that the prices will come down with 'just a bit more
research'. But no dice yet.

Once they really do reach the $80/barrel level then we'll have a revolution at
hand, and I'll be first in line to buy another diesel.

~~~
brc
I've been reading these headlines longer than I've been reading HN. After many
disappointments I'm very disillusioned about algae produced fuel. When there's
a story about it pumping out of bowsers then I'll get excited. Until then,
it's all vaporware as far as I am concerned,

~~~
billswift
For science fiction geeks, remember that research into algae-produced fuels
was the setting for Hal Clement's 1950s novel _Needle_. The _idea_ has been
around a long time. Admittedly, the actual research has been pretty sporadic,
but there has actually been surprisingly little progress made.

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jswanson
This is essentially taking energy from the sun by: \- growing a plant in a
pool of water \- harvesting the plant, treating it with solvents, then
extracting the fuel in a crude format \- refining the oil

Although solar technologies are still inefficient, it seems like a much more
direct path from solar -> electricity -> electric car.

~~~
NickPollard
More direct perhaps, but not more efficient. So far nature has far outstripped
us in the ability to collect energy from photons.

Using the sun to grow plants and then harvesting those plants for their
chemicals is still more efficient than most photo-voltaic cells.

~~~
Joakal
Source of efficiency?

This chart makes me think you're making things up:
[https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/File:PVeff%28...](https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/File:PVeff%28rev100921%29.jpg)

~~~
Unseelie
To back that chart up, photosynthesis generally works at around 5% efficiency.

~~~
oelewapperke
Which agricultural plant gets 5% efficient photosynthesis ? That's huge. 2% is
quite a lot.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthetic_efficiency>

~~~
Unseelie
sugarcane?

------
geon
> there's talk about $5-a-gallon

To put this into perspective, prices are nearly _twice_ that here in Sweden:
<http://www.bensinpriser.nu/> and Germany: <http://gasoline-
germany.com/statistik.phtml>

At 14.30 SEK/l, that is 8.80 USD/gallon.

~~~
unexpected
To put this into perspective, the reason your gas costs so much is that
Sweden/Germany/other European countries have incredibly high gas taxes.

The supply of oil and gas is pretty smooth - Nearly every country pays the
same price (with some obvious exceptions - islands, etc.) The reason prices
vary so much across US States and Euro countries are taxes placed on the
government. If the production costs are really $5 a gallon, the expect to pay
$12-$13 at the pump, if Sweden decides to level the same amount of gas taxes.

~~~
narag
And the reason for high taxes is said to be to compensate for the commercial
disbalance. So high taxes wouldn't be needed if gas could be produced locally.

~~~
tokenadult
_And the reason for high taxes is said to be to compensate for the commercial
disbalance._

A counterexample to that is Norway, which has abundant domestic supplies of
petroleum but still taxes gasoline heavily.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_tax#Norway>

~~~
lukeschlather
Actually I think that's just the other side of the coin. While most of Europe
has recognized that the public is better off levying heavy taxes to discourage
expensive imports, Norway levies heavy taxes to allow for greater quantity of
expensive exports. The net effect on society in both cases is positive.

~~~
gnosis
I don't get it. Why couldn't Norway export oil expensively, and yet make gas
cheap domestically?

Isn't that what many states in the Persian Gulf do?

~~~
lukeschlather
Why is cheap gas a good thing? Cars are far less safe than the alternatives,
and also generally speaking result in less exercise. So on two different
fronts, you have overall more death and injury resulting to society from cheap
gas, while more expensive gas pushes people on to safer transit like trains,
and encourages people to walk improving overall health. Minimizing time people
spend driving in cars is a good thing.

~~~
gnosis
I never meant to imply that cheap gas must be a good thing.

I just didn't see the supposedly necessary connection between expensive oil
exports and expensive domestic gas prices.

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ck2
Video should be up here later:

[http://www.pbs.org/nbr/site/features/special/environment_pla...](http://www.pbs.org/nbr/site/features/special/environment_planet_forward/)

------
Joakal
Is it more efficient than deriving ethanol from corn over the same land size?

~~~
chopsueyar
Yes. algae can be harvested multiple times daily, corn is seasonal.

Also, algae has a much larger percentage of oil to its mass. I've read some
types can be close to 40% oil.

~~~
JacobAldridge
And when you convert algae to fuel you're not taking food off the table, as
you are with corn. The impact ethanol has on driving up food prices is the
almost exclusive reason why I avoid using it.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Folks are going to flood fields with salt water to wildcat algae for fuel
plants. I know I would if I lived near an algae plant and had the land.

The article claims there is no erosion issue - so its better on the
environment. I disagree - its entirely possible to grow algae and damage the
environment at the same time.

~~~
krakensden
This isn't mentioned anywhere /near/ often enough- no one is going to be
repurposing wetlands for this.

~~~
protomyth
I thought I read once scheme was to run a water pipe into the desert and build
your algae ponds their? No farmland, lots of sun. Not sure about it though.

~~~
ilkandi
Lots of hot desert, salt water and pipeline/shipping infrastructure in the
Gulf states. So, once again, the Saudis win? :)

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ams6110
Perspective: they talk about a "75% chance" of reaching production of 5,000
barrels/day in five years time. That's 0.02% of our daily oil usage (18.7
million bbl/day in 2009 according to Wolfram Alpha). A literal drop in the
bucket.

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ssamuli
"next year in 2012" equals year 2013, right? ;)

