

Nokia suing Apple over the iPhone - shivam14
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8321058.stm

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ryanjmo
This is exactly why patents are not good for the world. Imagine if the iPhone
was never built because they respected these patents. The cell phone industry
would literally be 3 years behind where it is now.

Patents do not encourage innovation, they smother it.

~~~
andreyf
Ugh, what a knee-jerk echo-chamber reaction.

If there were no patents, the iPhone would have never been built, because
Nokia would have kept this IP as trade secret, or not developed it at all. For
companies, patents increase the value of R&D investments by orders of
magnitude, and without them, most current R&D spending would be impossible to
justify to shareholders. If there were no patents, Apple would have no
financial incentive (and that's the _only_ incentive public companies have) to
invest so heavily in all of the technologies in the iPhone, as they could
easily be copied by others.

The world isn't as simple as "competition always yields innovation". Giving
companies limited time monopolies on their discoveries (by definition,
limiting competition) increases the amount of R&D they do. This was understood
hundreds of years go, even before the Copyright Clause was debated, and still
holds true:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Clause>

I'm not saying that the spirit of this holds true here, or in every patent
case. I'm saying that responding "ugh! patents suuuck!" is too simplistic of a
world view.

~~~
antonovka
_If there were no patents, Apple would have no financial incentive (and that's
the only incentive public companies have) to invest so heavily in all of the
technologies in the iPhone, as they could easily be copied by others._

No financial incentive other than, you know, a need to compete in order to
sell their product? It's not as if you can just photocopy a phone and wind up
with the software written and hardware designs necessary to reproduce it --
and if you can, how novel are the ideas?

It's disingenuous to state that Apple relied on Nokia's IP (that they would
have otherwise kept trade secret), especially given that it's almost certain
that Apple engineers ignored existing patents as much as possible when
developing the iPhone to avoid additional liability.

~~~
DougBTX
_It's disingenuous to state that Apple relied on Nokia's IP_

Unless there is any truth in the "we got our patents into industry standards
which Apple supports" line from the article.

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yish
Why would apple be responsible? Last I checked they were using a separate
radio processor chip from someone else (I believe Broadcomm), so wouldn't
Broadcomm either have already negotiated the patent rights or ultimately be
the one responsible for any patent suit?

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teilo
This line says it all:

"Earlier this month, Nokia posted its first quarterly loss in a decade amid
falling sales."

And that in the same month where Apple has a record quarter.

If you can't beat 'em, sue 'em.

~~~
jrockway
I have to think that the author of the article added this statement precisely
so that the reader would make the same inference that you did.

It could be that they legitimately spent time and money researching
technology, only to have it brazenly ripped off by Apple, and they just
realized it right now. Starting legal proceedings against a big company like
Apple isn't something you do between lunch and your afternoon cup of coffee,
after all.

(But actually, I made the same inference, and I think it's right. I am just
pointing out how carefully-picked "facts" can lead you to believe something
that you imagined is a fact.)

~~~
tjogin
I think you are both right.

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RiderOfGiraffes
See also:
[http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870422400457448...](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704224004574489221111114540.html)

Referenced from <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=897380>

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senko
I would assume Apple has some patents in its portfolio too.

So, what happens when one company sues other over patents, and the other has
interesting patent portfolio? They settle it and each gets to use some new
tech (without fear of similar lawsuit in the future).

> "[...] those companies who contribute in technology development to establish
> standards create intellectual property, which others then need to compensate
> for," said Ilkka Rahnasto, vice president of Legal & Intellectual Property
> at Nokia. "Apple is also expected to follow this principle."

So, I think it's not Nokia being evil and suing the disruptive underdog to
keep its profits. It's just a (start of) business exchange.

(Disclaimer: IANAL and I own a Nokia phone, so :)

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kqr2
Nokia's actual complaint:

<http://www.scribd.com/doc/21458614/Nokia-vs-Apple-Complaint>

~~~
yish
Interesting, they claim they own a bunch of patents related to 802.11, does
that mean they can sue every laptop manufacturer, and any other device that is
wi-fi enabled next?

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jameskilton
Dupe: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=896838>

~~~
rbanffy
Not really. The other one is a Nokia press-release. This is, I suppose, a more
balanced point of view.

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jacquesm
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=898020>

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ramy_d
the article is written with bias

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johng
[http://www.talkiphone.com/wp-
content/uploads/2009/10/nokia-s...](http://www.talkiphone.com/wp-
content/uploads/2009/10/nokia-suing-apple1.gif)

