
A rundown of the new Gmail - runesoerensen
https://blog.google/products/gmail/stay-composed-heres-quick-rundown-new-gmail/
======
OmarIsmail
The most exciting news here is that they're iterating on Gmail again. It was
clear that Gmail was stagnating for a while as they were investing in Inbox.
It's unfortunate that Inbox didn't take off, but now that it looks like
they're putting the effort behind Gmail proper, we'll be seeing continual
updates and improvements.

In just the past 6 months we've seen native Gmail add-ons (that work across
web and mobile) and now confidential mode, Calendar/Keep/Tasks sidebars, and
Material look and feel.

It's more work for us working on the InboxSDK, but I'm gladly willing to make
the tradeoff of some extra work for a more robust and vibrant underlying
platform.

~~~
indianajensen
I've been an avid Inbox user for years. Anyone knows what's next for Inbox?
Looks like it might be folded back into Gmail and discontinued as standalone?

~~~
untog
It seems like most of these new features _are_ Inbox, so I won't be surprised
if we see it discontinued.

------
portmanteaufu
While I love the new functional features (Calendar view, snooze an email, add
an email to your task list, etc.), the new UI has a lot of problems.

First and foremost, the "Feedback" modal dialog is completely broken in
Firefox. The menu loads but then immediately disappears. It blinks back into
view intermittently every several seconds, but I can't see it long enough to
populate the form they provide.

They established a new dock for non-email applications on the right-hand side,
but decided to leave the Hangouts interface shoehorned into the lower-left
corner. It's too cramped to use and forces them to waste a huge amount of
horizontal space to the right of the menu options above it ("Inbox", "Sent",
etc.).

I count 5 vertical scrollbars visible on my small screen. The scrollbar in the
primary inbox pane is there whether there's overflow or not. I tried selecting
the "Compact" display density option and limited the list to 20 emails per
page to guarantee that scrolling wouldn't be necessary, but I still have to
look at the scrollbar. I also dislike that the inbox tabs ("Primary",
"Social", etc.) aren't pinned to the top -- if I accidentally scroll on the
inbox pane, they vanish.

~~~
dylan-m
Oh gosh, the scrollbars. The scrollbars are more of a disaster than before. I
was trying to figure out Gmail for someone with macular degeneration who
doesn't want to deal with screen readers or Mutt. Instead she stubbornly uses
a magnifier and bumps the font size. It was _impossible_ because Gmail's
sidebar ends up taking over the entire screen, the messages pane gets squished
into oblivion, and there's no horizontal scrolling. Indeed, there is still no
horizontal scrolling for the messages pane, and there are even more things in
the way of it.

(Incidentally, I tried setting up a screen reader as an ambient helper to wean
her onto the idea, but Gmail's HTML client, which is the only thing that
doesn't fall to pieces here, works terribly for screen readers).

This really should be basic stuff for a frontend web developer: the main
scrollbar (the one attached to your root html element) should control the
scroll position of your main content. No excuses, you lazy gits, we have
`position: sticky` now. Inbox has this figured out, and that's probably one of
the reasons I like it.

------
nextweek2
What I really want is a the Smart Reply feature to point out to the user that
more than one question was asked of them.

It's so boring to ask two questions and get a reply to one or ask someone to
choose one of two options and they reply with "Yes, go ahead".

~~~
bo1024
Not sure I'd blame the client for people not reading their emails...

~~~
tambre
Why do you think they were blaming the client? They simply expressed the
desire for a feature to help remedy a problem caused by humans.

------
steeve
It looks like the good things of Inbox are now in Gmail.

That would explain the lack of updates on the Inbox iOS App (which still
doesn't have proper iPhone X support)?

~~~
chx
> It looks like the good things of Inbox are now in Gmail.

The feature I use most in Inbox is the quick "mark done" which removes the
mail from sight but allows searching for it later.

The automatic bundling is not bad but not terribly useful.

~~~
Klathmon
I find it so strange that people don't find the bundling useful, because to me
it's mind-boggling powerful.

Being able to open a custom bundle of Git commits from yesterday, scan them,
then archive them all in a single click is huge! Being able to click on a
bundle created for my upcoming trip and see all my emails for that trip there
(hotel, flights, etc...) is such a time saver. Then being able to snooze those
bundles to another date/time is also huge.

I actually want them to expand it more, allow me to bundle multiple emails
that I choose together! If I get 3 separate emails about something I need to
do next week, I want to be able to make an ad-hoc bundle for those 3, then
snooze them all to another time together.

I can absolutely see how it's not for everyone, and I don't want anyone to
think i'm implying that it's wrong to not want it, but i'm just amazed that
there is such a varied response to them!

------
lsh
ha - that blog post is 26MB large and makes my laptop cry

~~~
skywhopper
Well, and the page itself is just hideously unusable. 1/3 of the space is
covered with noise begging me to leave the article I'm trying to read. The top
1/3 is 80% blank space that keeps popping up and going away as I scroll,
making the simple act of scrolling through an article feel unpredictable, as
I'm never sure if I'm even going to be able to see the entire animation they
want me to look at. Overall the experience of reading this blog is
claustrophobic and stress-inducing. I almost thought I was on Medium for a
bit.

~~~
erichurkman
They somehow made the blog post more painful to read than a CNN article.
That's talent right there.

------
ankitank
Actually, the new gmail is: [https://protonmail.com/](https://protonmail.com/)

~~~
kroberton
Agreed. And: [https://tutanota.com/](https://tutanota.com/)

Gmail used to be good alright, but then it started to ask for my phone number
all the time. I've switched to Tutanota recently, much better IMO,
particularly the new client:
[https://mail.tutanota.com/](https://mail.tutanota.com/)

~~~
bbbobbb
The design with multiple domains is pretty annoying.

So I register bob@tutanota.com but forget to register bob@tutanota.de and
anybody can squat it and impersonate me from the same service?

Not to mention they blocked my IP after registering 3 of the 5 available
domains.

~~~
wink
Same problem with the old GMX. "was that john.doe@gmx.de or john.doe@gmx.net"
\- I get it, people _should_ be able to differentiate, but they're really not.

------
jypepin
Seems awesome! I'll be switching back once they implement the automatic travel
bundle. I've gotten used to it a lot and it's been so helpful. I travel pretty
regularly, often with more complex trips than single round trip flight + 1
hotel, their bundling has been super helpful.

I also use it as my travel calendar. Gives me a better view of my coming
travel than a calendar.

------
pferde
"Finally, a new confidential mode allows you to remove the option to forward,
copy, download or print messages—useful for when you have to send sensitive
information via email like a tax return or your social security number. You
can also make a message expire after a set period of time to help you stay in
control of your information."

No, thanks. I like my e-mail archive under my own control.

~~~
hestefisk
Lame feature. Take screenshot. File / forward to circumvent.

~~~
cooper12
"Features" like these are actually worse than useless because they give users
a false sense of security.

~~~
y_molodtsov
I don't understand the hate. It's still a good way to send a password or some
financial information, just because you know that it's going to be deleted
soon and if in the future your contact's account is hacked it will be long
gone. Basically, it's a secret chat for email.

~~~
DocTomoe
Well, i wonder how they will make other mail providers (or clients, for that
matter) to honour this kind of mail headers.

~~~
bonesss
My take on the criticism here is that people are ignoring that Google has a
lot of customers on GMail and a lot of corporations on GSuite. Intra-office
email management is another ballgame and these kinds of features are pretty
common in that space (Novell had them in the 90s even).

For users outside of Googles platform the obvious solution is either not to
send them or to send a managed link to the message contents via normal email.

It can't be perfect thanks to the analogue hole, but it only has to be a bit
better than nothing to provide utility.

------
jamiegreen
Anyone able to shed any light on what is Google's strategy regarding the
Inbox/Gmail split?

~~~
therealmarv
look here: [https://www.computerworld.com/article/3269253/enterprise-
app...](https://www.computerworld.com/article/3269253/enterprise-
applications/google-inbox-future.html)

Quote: "With respect to the upcoming Gmail announcement, there are no changes
to Inbox by Gmail," a Google spokesperson tells me. "It remains a great
product for users with specific workflows and one in which we test innovative
features for email."

My opinion: Does not sound confident for me... it will be a always beta
product?!

~~~
dag11
Gmail was in beta for over five years ;)

------
mraison
I can't see the "Try the new Gmail" setting. Is there a geographic/locale
restriction? (I tried switching my account to English without luck)

~~~
agildehaus
Blog post came before they hit the big ol' deploy button.

~~~
oblio
Yeah, they went:

./publish-blog-post.sh

./deploy-gmail.sh

instead of the other way around :p

------
mcintyre1994
I'll probably stick to Inbox because the pin/sweep workflow is really nice,
but snoozing was the real game changer for me and it's good that they've put
that in Gmail proper now. The follow up thing looks nice too, that'd be nice
in Inbox but could be tricky if messages are archived. "This has been pinned
for x days" warnings would be neat.

~~~
jessriedel
When snoozing with Inbox, did it allow you to type in a snooze time that would
be interpreted intelligently (e.g., "8 hours" or "3pm May 5")? Or does Inbox
only allow you to select from a predefined list of options ("tomorrow", "next
week") or use their clunky date picker? Both Streak (a Gmail plugin) and
FollowUpThen (an email forwarding service) allowed you to type basically
anything, which was way faster.

~~~
mcintyre1994
Nope it doesn't have that - I can definitely imagine it being useful but their
defaults are pretty good in my experience. They do have "snooze until day of
event" which is quite nice for things like train tickets or meetup
confirmations. And they have location-based snoozing which is occasionally
handy. Sounds like a nicer way to do it though now you mention it!

~~~
jessriedel
Thanks for the info!

Yea, I think having good defaults and falling back to the date-picker
interface (graphical calendar) is a good solution for mobile, but when I'm on
a laptop with a keyboard it's way faster to just type.

------
bambax
> _New features on mobile, like high-priority notifications, can notify you of
> important messages to help you stay focused without interruption._

Err... wat. Explain again how "high-priority _notifications_ " will help me
stay focused "without interruption". This is a new level of newspeak. The
ringtone is now LOUDER, which will help you enjoy silence.

Anyway, I don't care about any of this. All I want to know is if I'll still be
able to disable conversation view in the new interface.

~~~
vatueil
The next sentence says: "Plus, Gmail will start suggesting when to unsubscribe
from newsletters or offers you no longer care about."

And the following screenshot: [https://storage.googleapis.com/gweb-uniblog-
publish-prod/ima...](https://storage.googleapis.com/gweb-uniblog-publish-
prod/images/Gmail_Convergence_Consumer_Image_4.max-1000x1000.png)

Shows: "Try notifications for only your most important emails: Turn on / No
thanks".

So in context, the message is not that "high-priority notifications" mean
louder ringtones but that (if you accept) Gmail will try to notify you only
when an incoming email is important. That hopefully means fewer interruptions
from newsletters and other bacn.

------
vijaybritto
Oh wow, this is neat! Some features like inline controls are a long time need.
Good that they are finally here. I hope they refine further to make it look
like a chat app cause that might further speed up conversations IMO!

------
staz
How did they manage the expiring e-mail thing without breaking standards?

~~~
delta1
It probably only works gmail to gmail?

~~~
Cthulhu_
Didn't either imap or Exchange also allow for 'withdrawing' emails?

------
gk1
Surprised nobody mentions the availability of Google Tasks for iOS here. Or is
that old news?

I use tasks because it lives on top of Google Calendar, which I use and look
at every day. Every other task-tracking option has failed because if it’s not
in front of me then it’s not helpful.

The biggest problem, until now, has been the lack of a mobile app for tasks.
I, got one, am excited about this.

------
dagaci
The original gmail was quite clean fast and efficient to use. Something about
recent updates seem to increase obfuscation on the desktop with the intent to
make you spend more time in the software. Thankfully the mobile clients have
to remain uncluttered.

------
mephitix
What’s going to happen to the Inbox app?

It looks like they’re converging but there are things like grouping of Trips,
grouping by day, and pinning (which also takes emails and attachments offline)
which I really like in Inbox...

------
billfruit
Nothing on inline video playback and embedded YouTube videos. I think many
desktop clients have that functionality. That would make possible email news
letters that can have the richness of Medium posts.

~~~
TheWiseOne
God, I hope this never comes true.

Email is not the right medium for this. Stick to blogs and webpages for this
instead.

------
eksu
There is reason to be concerned with time expiring messages and other features
that fragment the web and email, ultimately making us all more dependent on
Google Services.

~~~
maxk42
I use gmail as an archive of all the data / communications I've ever received.

Now that messages will expire and be removed from this archive I suppose it's
time to look at alternatives.

~~~
icebraining
How will that help you? If you receive one of those emails from a Gmail user,
it will probably only contain a link, not the content. So you still won't be
able to archive it.

------
dirtylowprofile
I don't know but web interfaces are not a thing to me anymore. I am using
Airmail for both my personal and work email. Those new features are just meh.

~~~
statictype
Airmail is great until I find that I collect a lot of mail - At that point -
it starts becoming extremely buggy.

I tried it a few times - each time worked great at the start and then fell
apart once the mail volume grew.

Gmail's web interface, crappy though it may be, seems to be the interface that
works best out of the lot.

------
sandGorgon
does anyone know the split of these kind of posts on the different blog
domains of Google ?

I find more meaninfgul postings on the *.googleblog.com sites (e.g.
[https://research.googleblog.com](https://research.googleblog.com) or
[https://india.googleblog.com/](https://india.googleblog.com/)) versus the
blog.google sites.

~~~
runesoerensen
I don't know about the split, but agree that more interesting (and HN
relevant) posts are published on the research blog than the more product-
oriented blog.google.

This HN domain leaderboard also ranks the research blog domain higher (74 vs
89) over the past year:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16692149](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16692149)

------
billfruit
Something as bare minimum as stemming while searching(ie, if you presently
search in Gmail for the string 'orange', the results does not include emails
that may only contain the string 'oranges') strings inside emails is yet to be
implemented by Google. Any possible reason why something that sounds simple is
yet not implemented?

~~~
Raidion
Wildcard searches are expensive and gmail has a LOT of data. I bet it would
cost them more than you expect.

~~~
linsomniac
But stemming isn't wildcard...

------
car_invasion
I think the way the Gmail team implements new features is quite cautious when
I compare that, for example, to the recent Reddit redesign.

Progressive and slow changes, so that the users don't notice them and get
overwhelmed is the way to go. I bet Google has the manpower and funds to A/B
test the usefulness and user acceptance of any such changes.

------
JoshMnem
Google is ruining its products with Material Design. The animation is not
accessible for people who have difficulty with visual motion. There needs to
be a way to turn all animation off. It's bad enough already and keeps getting
worse.

Edit: you should learn more about visual motion accessibility before
downvoting me.

------
tofflos
I know they put in a lot of hard work on improving the product... But I wish
that they would divert just a minuscule amount of that effort into changing
the font to something other than Arial.

It doesn't have to be anything fancy. Just pick "Segoe UI" or "Verdana" like
everyone else.

~~~
joshuamorton
Poking at the new UI, it looks like it uses the system default sans-serif
font. So you're completely in control. If you want Segoe UI or Verdana, use
that as your system default, and Gmail will reflect that.

------
coatmatter
It appears that the snooze function is straight from Google Inbox
(inbox.google.com). Meanwhile, you still can't unmark messages marked as spam
in Google Inbox.

I kind of alternate between Gmail and Google Inbox because they present
different views. It's all pretty confusing.

------
seba_dos1
I can already hear the laptop fans screaming due to all these useless
animations.

------
KayL
Wish they can add different swipe left/right actions to their mobile APP. It's
the only reason I don't use their Gmail APP. Others Mail APP has less real-
time sync than the official one.

------
tlrobinson
> Plus, Gmail will start suggesting when to unsubscribe from newsletters or
> offers you no longer care about.

That sounds great. My only other feature request is an unsubscribe button in
the list view actions.

------
addicted
Nice features.

That being said the “do more without leaving the inbox” seems like workarounds
to the fact that Gmail lacks a 3 pane interface.

A 3 pane interface makes much of the deeper features Gmail is adding on
message hover redundant. One could argue that in a 3 pane interface you need
to click the message you are interested in to get access to advanced actions
but in Gmail you don’t. And while this is true, I’d say the need to hover over
the message actually makes it harder. The hover needs to be maintained while
in the 3 pane interface once you click you don’t need to maintain your mouse
position. And you have far more context, since the entire email is displayed
while still showing you all your other messages and not yanking you out of the
inbox.

~~~
bigtones
Gmail has had a three pane interface for about 6 years. It's enabled under
Labs.

------
bbbobbb
I guess there is no incentive for google to support this properly but the web
client is completely pointless for anybody who has multiple gmail adresses. I
want to see my stuff in a combined inbox.

~~~
cdancette
there's an option in gmail labs to activate multiple accounts, I've never
tried it though

~~~
bbbobbb
I think I have tried that and have it enabled but the result is completely
pointless.

1) it does not combined inboxes (at least I see no option to view the other
emails)

2) it only allows you to send emails from the different accounts. Emphasis on
the "From" \- the sender will still be the original email address, so that is
completely useless for combination of like a public and private email.

------
silversmith
Oh, so that's the reason why I haven't been getting mail notifications for the
past week. The messages just haven't been important enough. Thanks google, you
always have my back.

------
MonarchofSouls
I cant find the Button :(

------
donttrack
Moved off google products completely. A few years ago I would probably have
been excited about this but today I can’t shake the cynic telling me
everything they do is to just spy more efficiently.

~~~
bernardino
Was thinking of deleting my Google account completely and moving over to
FastMail but I wish they had a free option like user@fastmail.com for no cost.
But then again, I do like no ads.

~~~
peatmoss
Having used and switched between a bunch of free-or-isp-or-university email
addresses back in the 90s and even a little bit beyond, I have never been so
glad as to have my own vanity domain.

As it is, my email address has now survived three different providers. I’m a
happy Fastmail user now, but there’s no way I’d accept an @fastmail.com email
address.

For me, $5 a month for ad free email that supports push notifications on iOS
is pretty nice. The file / web hosting on Fastmail is fun too. Feels like an
old school ISP.

~~~
bernardino
I should really switch over to Fastmail. I currently have a personal email w/
user@gmail.com but also a basic G-Suite email w/ firstname@domain.com. I would
save $2 a month by doing so and have one email rather than two.

Do you still have an account w/ Google, despite using Fastmail as your email
provider? I was thinking of just deleting my entire Google account but I have
my personal email address associated w/ so many things.

I also love the old school feel of Fastmail but I don't know, a few user
interface tweaks wouldn't hurt.

~~~
peatmoss
I do still have the account with Google due to having used Google SSO with a
few 3rd party services. I've thought about murdering those / changing my sign-
in so I could get rid of that account, however.

------
gandalfian
Or you know let google photos work with google mail so you can insert a photo
without some convoluted work around.

------
therealmarv
No love for Inbox. Great after I switched... I only need bundles working in
Gmail and I can switch again :(

------
pjmlp
Oh well, I will keep using Thunderbird.

------
jbb67
Ah,more "improvements"...

------
mrarjen
This reminds me I still need to get rid of some 3k+ emails in my inbox...
thanks Google!

~~~
sideshowb
Afaiac the whole point of gmail is that you don't have to get rid of anything
from your inbox.

~~~
lou1306
Your inbox != All your emails. There was this "Inbox Zero"
thing/philosophy/cult out there years ago, and some of its tenets are pretty
interesting.

------
berberous
Seems like some good new features, but man does it look ugly.

------
lonk
A few unnecessary features here or there.

------
anigbrowl
Nice try FBI

...it's neat. I'm just making a crack about them copying the disappearing
messages functionality from other providers like protonmail.

------
known
Sounds like exotic features

------
gambiting
Am I the only one that dreads new product updates recently? I used to be super
enthusiastic about every new update for everything(cool! more stuff!) but
Android, Youtube and Windows 10 updates especially have made me extremely
jaded - it feels like every update I either lose some functionality or
something I used every day has now moved to a completely different place for
no good reason. I seriously consider disabling firmware updates on my phone
for that reason( if not for security updates, I think I would have done it
already) - I don't want to re-learn my devices every time there is an update.
Youtube interface has changed several times in the last year for me, every
time moving some links that I use all the time elsewhere - "my videos" for
example is now hidden 3 layers deep, when previously it was on the front page.
Just why. I don't want your new shiny interface, I want to keep using the
stuff that I know.

~~~
hedgew
Each year the internet and its services are less and less for hackers and more
and more for the general public. This is reflected in how everything is
designed.

The average person has totally different needs and usage patterns than power
users. If you want to avoid this phenomena, where the services you use slowly
degrade and lose features, favor products that specifically target power
users. Products for the general population, like Android, Youtube, and
Windows, will over time degrade more and more towards some lowest common
denominators.

~~~
gepi79
"The average person has totally different needs and usage patterns than power
users."

There is no average person. Different person have different use cases and
preferences. No person wants known liked things to be removed or made less
good.

Apple devices are meant for Apple power users. I use Windows and Linux (KDE)
and I am uncomfortable and constraint on Mac OS.

There is a reason why people spend (or spent) hours to discover and learn even
their phone or TV software.

~~~
golergka
> No person wants known liked things to be removed or made less good.

Have you missed dozes of HN posts and threads about git being overcomplicated
and overengineered? A lot of software engineers would love for git to remove a
lot of features they don't use because they find it too complex. (For the
record, I personally don't agree with them at all, but it is a very popular
opinion).

Hell, many routinely rebase and squash commits for the sake of simplicity,
throwing out a truthful development history.

------
jk2323
What is good about Gmail? Imap is a nightmare if you travel a lot (Please log-
in via Browser), it is a privacy nightmare..If you forget your password, who
can you call? What is good about it? Okay, it is free and has the best
"search" option.

You can get a domain with Webmail and IMAP for a few bucks.

gandi.net (France)

infomaniak.com (Switzerland)

~~~
ktosobcy
Well, gmail IMAP is terribly terrible. I'm eyeballing fastmail (was using it
for a bit and mail/calendar/contacts were working like a charm) but for my
usecase I would have to pay 15usd/month (2 domains, and 2 persons, one having
accounts on both domains - totalling 3 accounts according to them) which would
be quite pricey. Thanks for the hints about infomaniak.com - looks ok. Any
comments?

~~~
jk2323
I use both.

Informaniak has decent webmail. IMAP is okay, didn't get SMTP to work with k9
android email client. I don't have my domain with them, I buy email/IMAP as a
service. I think it is 17 Euros per year.

gandi's IMAP seems more robust.

Infos [https://www.infomaniak.com/en/support/faq/1944/ordering-
emai...](https://www.infomaniak.com/en/support/faq/1944/ordering-email-
addresses-with-infomaniak)

Order (may have to change to English):
[https://www.infomaniak.com/en/hosting/e-mail](https://www.infomaniak.com/en/hosting/e-mail)

~~~
ktosobcy
Why IMAP is only ok? Any particular downsides? Any hints on problems with
SMTP? Those are my actual two main protocols to use the mail (I use gmail
webmail only because their email is funny in terms of 'archiving' [delete &
expunge sometimes works]) and k9mail is my main mobile client (Thunderbird on
the desktop).

~~~
jk2323
I live in China. This could be an IP thing or something.

On my Android k9 client I never got sendmail to work with informaniak.

