
Bilingual speakers experience time differently, study finds - Jaruzel
http://www.lancaster.ac.uk/news/articles/2017/language-shapes-how-the-brain-perceives-time/
======
arximboldi
I am confused by what the article says. At least in Spain we don't use
volumetric relative measures for time (big/small) but linear ("corto"/"largo",
short/long). This is particularly true when for the examples in the article
("duración" duration: "larga duración" o "corta duración"; "wedding", a "big
wedding" is a wedding with a lot of people, a "long wedding" is a wedding that
takes a lot of time). The only case that might be different is that in Spanish
it is common to use "mucho/poco" (a lot, little) as an adverb with "durar"
("to last") as in "sth lasts a lot" as opposed "sth lasts long" or "cuanto
dura?" ("how much it lasts/takes?")

As other pointed out, the "now" that blends into the future is maybe a more
interesting feature of how time is understood in Spanish vs other languages.

~~~
memracom
It is probably something to do with cultural habits in different geographic
areas, not necessarily language. I moved from an English speaking region
(Ontario, Canada) to another English speaking region (British Columbia,
Canada) 5,000 km away. In BC people seem to measure distance using time but in
Ontario they use distance. In Ontario they will say that a town is 150 km away
but in BC they say that a town is 45 minutes away. Possibly this has to do
with the mountainous terrain of BC which restricts your travel routes and
speed, while Ontario is relatively flat, allows many different routes between
point A and B, and you can speed without dying.

On the other hand, I also speak Russian, and switch between Russian and
English several times per day. When I speak/think in Russian I tend to not
worry about the time order of things that I speak about because Russian has
few verb tenses and makes it easy to function in an eternal now where actions
are either ongoing or completed. Good for getting an overall perspective on
things.

~~~
jurie
Albertan here; we're flat and our roads are straight, but we also measure
distances by travel time, whether in the city ("I live 20 minutes from the
mall") or across the province ("Calgary is three hours from Edmonton").

I suspect that it's a western thing more than a terrain thing. I wonder if
that applies to the western USA as well?

Another interesting thing that I've noticed is that Europeans and North
Americans have a very different concept of historical time and relative
distance. To me, a building that has stood for 100 years is OLD, and 200km
(Somewhere that's "about an hour and a half to two hours away") is a day trip
that's nothing​ out of the ordinary. When I was in the UK, I noticed that
people held the opposite view - 100 years ago was just yesterday, relatively
speaking, while traveling 200km for a day trip was inconceivable.

~~~
data_hope
as a european, in canada and the US I was constantly confused by directions.
america uses street names and cardinal directions (turn north on I-??? then
west on ...). europeans think in terms of sequences of towns (to get to munich
I must drive on the autobahn via Stuttgart, Ulm, Augsburg).

I once travelled from toronto to chicago by car and decided to write down my
own directions from google maps because I felt the ones provided were useless.
Boy, was I lost when I didnt see a roadsign for windsor/detroit.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
In the UK Google Maps does road numbers wrong. So A4042 should be "ay four o
four two" but Maps says the less efficient "ay four thousand and forty-two"
(it's also wrong, it's a code not a number; like calling 0b20 "twenty").

It throws me much more than it should.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
0h20! lol ... there are 10 types of people in the world ...

------
aquilaFiera
As being bilingual in Italian and English, this seems … contrived to me. I
don't believe I perceive time any differently when I speak one language or the
other: I simply learned the idiomatic way to say it in that language. Same
thing with using different prepositions: just because I use a different
preposition in one language doesn't change the way I perceive the reality or
relations of that situation.

~~~
nickparker
I took an intro linguistics class that focused a lot (like, weirdly more than
I expected) on linguistic relativity, or the idea that the language you use
affects your perception of reality.

It's one of the things I'm really hoping neuroscience can answer better before
I die, because honestly the class gave me the impression that the entire field
is incredibly contrived stuff like this.

My suspicion is that there's significant truth to it, but we still have such
an awful understanding of cognition that almost all testable hypotheses we can
imagine re: linguistic relativity are hopelessly naive. The only one that
seemed really well founded to me was that Russian speakers distinguish shades
of blue better because they have separate "light blue" and "dark blue" colors.

[https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11759-russian-
speaker...](https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11759-russian-speakers-get-
the-blues/)

~~~
Brakenshire
I think about it from the perspective of computing, when you learn jargon, are
you just learning an idiom, or are you learning the model through which you
will think? It's definitely the latter to some extent.

In my family, we have the eternal 'coming in five minutes', which is never
five minutes, but which may be anywhere from 12 minutes to never. Essentially
it's a way of putting a future task on a queue which will be checked at an
indeterminate time in the future. This doesn't exactly reflect a precise
parsing of the phrase, which might be tempting for a linguist, but I do think
that the way you express yourself in language and the way that language is
understood by others affects the way you think and behave. The eternal five
minutes definitely has a habit of making us late.

------
Broken_Hippo
I can understand how this happens.

For example, telling time in Norwegian took me viewing time differently.
English tends to place importance on the last whole hour that passed: Half
past six, six thirty-five, six twenty. It isn't until we approach the next
whole hour that we give it any credit: Quarter 'til seven.

Norwegian, on the other hand, seems to focus more on the "now" and the future,
orientated around the nearest 15-minute mark and the next whole hour, only
focusing on the hour that has passed for the first 15 minute. _it is quite
possible I 've flubbed on the exact phrasing: While my Norwegian is on the
upper end of adequate and passed the state tests, I am still far from truly
fluent_

6:20? Ten 'til half seven. 6:30? Half seven. 6:35? Five over half seven.

~~~
Swizec
The first thing I learned in the US: nobody says half past or ten to or any of
those things. They only make sense on analog round clocks.

What people say is stuff like "six twenty", "four fiftyfive" etc

~~~
cbhl
I grew up being taught how to say "half past or ten to" in school, but I think
people stopped doing it when digital clocks became cheap and ubiquitous (in
the 90s).

~~~
spc476
For a while, as a joke, I used to say stuff like "it's 5 till a quarter past
X" or "it's 20 past a quarter to Y". It tends to throw people off.

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zaatar
At first glance, his is too naive a conclusion. This isn't simply language-
specific, it is further locale-specific in addition to simply the language,
here's why:

 _Ahorita_ in Spanish (USA) means something else from Spanish (Nicaragua) for
example. If a Greyhound bus driver were to use that word to indicate the bus
is departing "Ahorita", I would assume that to mean the next 10-15 minutes
whereas in Nicaragua, I would have no idea if it means 10 minutes, 30 minutes
or even 60 minutes, so my follow-up question would be, "Do you mean 15 minutes
or less?" To me, this is more a cultural thing, not a linguistic thing since
in fact the language in use is the same, i.e. Spanish. As another example,
"later" (EN-US) is not the same as in EN-IN.

Or maybe I'm missing the point of the research entirely ...

~~~
pacofvf
Funny, in Mexico we use a lot "Ahorita" too, which it's just the diminutive
for "Ahora" ("Right Now" in English). The word is very ambiguous here, it can
mean "Right now" or "In a few minutes/hours/days" or if used sarcastically
"Never".

Edit: ohh my gosh I just remembered another case where it's used for past
events:

\- Perdí mis llaves (I lost my keys)

\- ¿Cuándo? (When?)

\- Ahorita (Just a few seconds/minutes ago)

~~~
betenoire
\- Ahorita (just now)

Same in english, no?

~~~
tyingq
Maybe "in a second" or "in a minute", which is almost never a second, or
minute, respectively.

Or "shortly". Heard that one a lot. We'll be departing shortly. Which could be
2 minutes or 15 minutes, or something in between.

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j_s
The movie Arrival (2016) incorporated this idea as its primary plot element.

~~~
guilamu
This is the premise of the movie indeed, language shape your perception of
everything around you. If you missed it, you absolutely need to see it. It's
the best SF movie of the decade.

[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2543164/](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2543164/)

------
ekianjo
If I paraphrase the results of the research: Researcher finds that bilingual
folks express numbers in different ways depending on the language they use. So
they _experience_ numbers differently.

The jump to the conclusion is certain far-fetched, and it's a question of
habit, practice and context rather than "experiencing" anything differently.

------
lioeters
This reminded me of an interesting example of "a difference experience of
time". There is a tribe in South America, whose language use describes the
future as being "behind" them. When they talk about their ancestors they
gesture waving behind their back, and for their descendants (children,
grandchildren), they gesture in front of them. To me, that's a clear example
of how language can shape people's experience of time. (And also makes me
think about "spatial metaphors" to describe time, which is what a clock is
essentially..)

[http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/archive/newsrel/soc/backsfuture06.a...](http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/archive/newsrel/soc/backsfuture06.asp)

------
zwetan
interesting, and to put in relation with those other articles

Mother tongue may determine maths skills [0]

Does the Language I Speak Influence the Way I Think? [1]

[0]: [https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9422-mother-tongue-
ma...](https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9422-mother-tongue-may-
determine-maths-skills/)

[1]: [http://www.linguisticsociety.org/content/does-language-i-
spe...](http://www.linguisticsociety.org/content/does-language-i-speak-
influence-way-i-think)

~~~
titanix2
The [0] study itself said in its introduction "Whereas previous neuroimaging
studies have revealed differential activation patterns during reading
processes [...], the question remains whether these differences are derived
from culture characteristics rather than ethnic or hereditary factors (1, 9)."
but does not give any information about the races the two studied groups.

The Chinese speaker group is most likely made exclusively of Han people while
the English one may be racially more diverse but probably mostly non East-
Asian people. So basically it compares groups that have an average IQ
difference of at least 5 points and that may explain the math advantage of
Chinese "speaker".

To avoid that issue this kind of study should use groups of people of some A
origin rise in A and B language environment (like Asian Born Chinese speaking
exclusively English vs Chinese speaker from China).

------
anxrn
Interesting. This appears to bolster the Sapir–Whorf hypothesis[1] which has
been the subject of a fair degree of criticism[2], particularly from Steven
Pinker.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity)

[2] [https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-main-criticisms-of-
Whorfs...](https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-main-criticisms-of-Whorfs-
theory-of-linguistic-determinism-and-relativity)

------
Artlav
Interesting. Never really noticed any effects of that, however. On the other
hand, in Russian there is no distinct time metaphor - it can be a short pause,
it can be a small break.

------
11thEarlOfMar
"A-lalla-lalla-rumba-kamanda-lindor-burúmë"

[http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/entish.htm](http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/entish.htm)

~~~
evincarofautumn
That was an interesting read. But now my vision’s gone all pink because of the
bright green background—looking at the world through rose-coloured lenses, I
suppose.

~~~
11thEarlOfMar
My sincere apologies.

------
emanreus
The Time Paradox by Philip Zimbardo and John Boyd explores different time
perspectives and how the affect our lives.

6 min TED talk that covers some of the ideas in the book
[https://www.ted.com/talks/philip_zimbardo_prescribes_a_healt...](https://www.ted.com/talks/philip_zimbardo_prescribes_a_healthy_take_on_time)

------
hkmurakami
Idk, I do have different personalities in my two native languages, so I
suppose the different mental makeup could affect things.

But I'm not sure how much of this hypothetical difference is due to cultural
differences assimilated into each part of my mind through differences in
exposure via the two languages, vs the languages themselves. A worthwhile
distinction imo.

------
saasthrowaway3
Neuro-Linguistic Programming is often labelled as pseudoscience, but I think
this gives implicit credence to some of their methods (like Timeline Therapy,
which is all about manipulating your own mental representation of time in
order to eg get over phobias or achieve goals better).

~~~
omginternets
>Neuro-Linguistic Programming is often labelled as pseudoscience

There's a definite link between language and cognition: e.g. semantic priming
effects. Clearly if we're able to be convinced by verbal argumentation, it
follows that language can (in some sense) shape cognition.

Where NLP becomes a pseudoscience is when it's presented as therapeutic, or at
least as _systematically_ therapeutic. In other words, the first principles of
NLP are (generally) sound. The application is not.

~~~
saasthrowaway3
_Where NLP becomes a pseudoscience is when it 's presented as therapeutic, or
at least as systematically therapeutic. In other words, the first principles
of NLP are (generally) sound. The application is not._

I looked into scientific backing just now - seems its therapeutic effect is
mostly not backed by science. Ie it doesn't cure phobias, as it says it does.
Then again, I would have to look at those 18% of studies that DO show an
effect, and see if they are doing something different than the ones that don't
show an effect (NLP can mean a lot of things).

[https://www.degruyter.com/view/j/ppb.2010.41.issue-2/v10059-...](https://www.degruyter.com/view/j/ppb.2010.41.issue-2/v10059-010-0008-0/v10059-010-0008-0.xml)

~~~
omginternets
Yes ... that was exactly my point. Sorry, I'm a bit confused by your comment.
Are you agreeing or refuting?

------
unabst
Our language alters how we _reason_ with reality because words are the
smallest unit of reason. Reason is not experience. However, we do experience
our reasoning, and we also act upon it.

------
captn3m0
Paper: [https://sci-
hub.ac/http://psycnet.apa.org/?&fa=main.doiLandi...](https://sci-
hub.ac/http://psycnet.apa.org/?&fa=main.doiLanding&doi=10.1037/xge0000314)

------
palakchokshi
As a multi(poly?)lingual person I had never consciously thought of this but
after going over every language I know I can see, I perceive time in distance,
volume as well as sizes.

Interestingly a couple of languages I know depict time in distance as well as
sizes depending on the context.

~~~
Sunset
Do you "perceive time" or do you "express time". As a multilingual person
myself. I don't "think in a language". I "think" in something innate which
can't be described as any language I know. The thoughts are formed instantly
and then I simply express them in the language the other party will
understand. Almost automatically.

I don't have to work to "translate" between these innate collections of ideas
to spoken language, it happens automatically.

Some people tell me their inner thoughts are in a certain language, but that's
not the case for me.

So I would like a clarification. Do you "think in a language"?

~~~
palakchokshi
I do think in a language but that changes based on situations too. For
abstract thoughts I think in English, for planning thoughts I think in another
language, etc. It is not a conscious choice, my brain somehow picks a language
for thought

------
mikkqu
I apologize for my ignorance, but am I the only one who consider this study a
total bullshit?

~~~
kwhitefoot
No need to apologize and no you aren't.

------
tabeth
I recently watched the scifi film Arrival and it suggests that language can
not only allow you to experience time differently, but to [1] (spoiler).

I wonder if there's any truth in what it suggests, or if its just scifi mumbo
jumbo.

[1] " _see_ " the future.

~~~
tbrownaw
If my wife tells me she ordered pizza for dinner, that use of language lets me
"see" an hour into the future when a delivery person will arrive with a couple
flat boxes and a plastic bag holding a soda bottle.

Nothing "mumbo jumbo" about it.

~~~
personlurking
And other times you can "see" w/o finding anything.

In Brazil, when you were supposed to meet a friend at a certain time and they
aren't there, you call/text them and ask where they are. They'll usually say:
"já estou saindo" (I'm leaving already [from their house]), but according to
the cultural norms, this actually often means "I haven't left yet and I'm
getting ready, or thinking about getting ready".

Likewise, if you're out and about, and pass by some acquaintances, you make
quick chit-chat to be nice and then make plans to get together next weekend.
Both parties generally know this will not happen, and it's only being said for
appearances.

This leads to a joke I like to imagine where situation 2 leads to situation 1.
That is, "let's meet up next weekend!" and the response, "Ok, I'm leaving my
house already". Everyone knows it's BS but they say it anyways.

------
aisofteng
Would love to access the journal publication, but can't figure out how to get
to it.

~~~
jordigh
Just stick the DOI (i.e. 10.1037/xge0000314) into Sci-Hub.

If you feel that this is morally reprehensible, you might also be able to find
it from your nearest university library.

~~~
aisofteng
What I find morally reprehensible is paywalling research that was taxpayer
funded - I didn't know about this approach, so thank you several times over
for mentioning it!

------
zoom6628
I would suggest that the study reinforces that bilingual & polyglots
naturalise other ways of thinking, or contexts for thinking, and that is for
the brain, what habitualised exercise is for the body.

------
acd
Different cultures can learn good things from another and adopt it. Got
bilingual kids in the languages the article describes.

------
unit91
Anybody know the sample size? At this point I'm pretty skeptical of "amazing"
behavioral psychology finds.

------
Swizec
Yeah well, if you become fluent in a particular alien language (Heptapod B)
you can remember the future. Ted Chiang was onto something!

------
coffeymug
Humans are not very good at telling time and since their observations are
subjective we can dismiss such experiments as anecdotal.

------
pzh
I don't know what the standards of research in experimental psychology are,
but this term project paper ended up a bit contrived. We took some superficial
vocabulary characteristics of two languages (of which native speakers probably
aren't even mindful) and somehow managed to distort this into a relativistic
theory of language-based time perception that manages to prove that bilingual
speakers have Neo-like abilities to transcend time, almost moving into 'What
the bleep do we know' territory.

~~~
vsipuli
The purpose of the term project paper is not to produce truthful research, but
for you to practice how to do it. And you wasted that opportunity.

