
Popcorn Time 4.0 - ncdlek
https://github.com/popcorn-official/popcorn-desktop
======
pachico
I'm a huge fan of swing manouche (jazz style developed during the '40s). I
can't find albums in legal sources that I can instead find in Nicotine++ (a
Linux version of the old Soulseek). What should I do? Accept that I won't find
it?

I remember once writing to an Aussie record label asking for a copy of an old
album of Brett Garsed. They told me I wouldn't find it here in Europe nor they
had the means to send it to me. Should I just accept it? Once again, I could
find it in Nicotine++.

I can't find many movies I like in original language in Netflix, HBO and
Amazon, all services I have legal accounts for. Again, should I just accept I
won't watch them knowing that I might find them in other channels?

I live in Spain, country where I pay a compensation copyright tax for every
pen drive, computer, hard drive, TV set, etc, I purchase just in case I
download something "illegally".

It turns out I'm lazy/I choose not to spend the required time and I accept not
enjoying albums and movies I otherwise would.

Well, let me tell you I applaud Popcorn Time.

~~~
crimsonalucard
I'm going to be honest with all of you. You all are doing something that is
ethically and morally wrong and statements like this are only way too human
attempts to justify the actions of things you know are clearly wrong. You
can't find legal sources of swing manouche just like you can't find legal
sources of the Mona Lisa by Leonardo da vinci. What are you going to do? make
a counterfeit copy of the Mona Lisa then buy tickets to the art museum to
absolve you of all crimes?

That being said I use popcorn time and stremio and torrents regularly. The
difference is, I don't justify my crimes. I'm aware of what I'm doing, I don't
need to live in a universe that is a self created moral illusion. I likely
will do something unethical if I could hide it and it made economic sense. I
am human and, morally, I am imperfect, but unlike most of you, morally, I am
aware of my imperfections and I don't try to construct logical scaffolding to
lie to myself and others. I can pirate because most people pay for the things
I pirate, such a model is only sustainable if most people don't do what I do.
Things like popcorn time threaten to change the balance.

If you want to save the world or do better for the world, do not assume that
the world is as described by our parent poster pachico. It's not intelligent
to assume that people are going to use popcorn time then purchase Netflix to
offset some of that guilt (still a crime btw). Assume the world is made out of
people who are as pachico really is.. people who are morally grey but make up
lies and illusions to comfort themselves into thinking they are justified in
their crimes.

I stopped pirating games 10 years ago when my salary crossed a threshold where
it wasn't worth my time anymore to pirate a game vs. the convenience to buy it
from steam. The way to combat piracy is to create systems that appeal to the
previous aforementioned logic.

Spotify was a step in the right direction but it eliminated much of the huge
profits made by the music industry. Perhaps those profits were ludicrously too
large anyway. Either way, the way forward isn't trying to justify your crimes.
It's admitting that hey, we are victims of the tragedy of the commons, we use
popcorn time because it's free and easy to use... to combat this situation you
either need to take steps to destroy this product or come up with something
way better.

~~~
pachico
For the sake of argument, I'm contemplating the idea of counterfeiting Mona
Lisa, as you say. I can't see anything wrong with it if it's for my own
personal pleasure and I'm not hurting anyone.

Don't forget copyright is a human construct and is far from being perfect.
Also the amount of years after which art becomes public is human made and
totally arbitrary. Why not 2 years? Why not 500 years? Ethics are not in the
game here, I'm afraid. I'd like you to reply but please, restrain yourself
from insults this time. Thanks

~~~
crimsonalucard
Ok it's not wrong from a very technical sense for the mona lisa. I obviously
meant forgery, where you claim the painting is an actual mona lisa... but Who
cares? That's not my point.

My point is what you're doing is wrong and you know it on some level.

------
1_player
Say what you will about stealing, illegality, unsavouriness.

If the film industry would collectively take their head out of their arses and
provide such a simple interface and wide catalogue to the masses, they would
make hundreds of billions.

I would literally pay $50 a month for an official and legal version of this.

The end users don't really care that it is not possible because "legal
reasons". This app proves otherwise and I wholeheartedly approve of their
mission.

EDIT: if I would pay $50 a month, why am I not buying/renting movies on iTunes
or Amazon for the same amount? For the same reason Spotify or Apple Music are
making a killing. Give me a flat rate and let me watch _everything_, it's hard
to decide if that new movie just out is worth spending $15 on. Might be crap.

~~~
CJefferson
An official and legal version of this wouldn't be $50/month, it would be more
like $200/month. It includes movies from every major company, and films while
they are still in the cinema.

~~~
hysan
To me, $50 seems more realistic because of data caps. You simply cannot stream
enough content nowadays without forking over more money to ISPs. Pricing would
become a balancing act. It’s an interesting thought experiment to wonder how
those two giants would battle out the responsibility of bandwidth.

~~~
CJefferson
If you can get up-to-date movies still in the cinema, you would pay $50 just
to take a family to the cinema once.

------
rado
I've tried many times to purchase/stream films online, cash in hand, only to
be denied because of various BS reasons. This is all that needs to be said
about the industry and piracy.

~~~
fernandotakai
sometimes i CAN'T buy/watch films online because they are not available in my
country.

so i would have to buy the film in physical form so i can watch it.

------
mciancia
Anyone knows what is the difference between this project and
[https://getpopcorntime.is](https://getpopcorntime.is) ?

~~~
pachico
I know that at least one of those projects were spyware (not the original but
one of its copies). I can't tell now which one was it.

~~~
andybak
[https://twitter.com/popcorntimetv/status/729597989581406208](https://twitter.com/popcorntimetv/status/729597989581406208)

------
icarito
I downloaded the 64bit Linux build and it has a strange executable called
"payload". I moved it out of precautio and still launched the app, and it
seems to work fine without this executable. What is this "payload"? Anyone
know? A quick search didn't find anything relevant.

~~~
laresistance
You're not the first one to notice something odd [0]

Added to the fact that you need a boatload of stuff to even build it [1], and
you get an interesting cocktail of mass-exploitation.

0:
[https://old.reddit.com/r/mealtimevideos/comments/dulvpz/subs...](https://old.reddit.com/r/mealtimevideos/comments/dulvpz/subscription_services_scott_the_woz_1425/f77pmeo/?context=3)

1:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22614247](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22614247)

This doesn't look good:

[https://old.reddit.com/r/PopCornTime/comments/flcqsd/trojan_...](https://old.reddit.com/r/PopCornTime/comments/flcqsd/trojan_script_located_in_popcorntime_downloaded/)

[https://old.reddit.com/r/PopCornTime/comments/fknfnm/is_this...](https://old.reddit.com/r/PopCornTime/comments/fknfnm/is_this_still_the_real_popcorntime_or_is_the/)

[https://old.reddit.com/r/PopCornTime/comments/fluait/the_vpn...](https://old.reddit.com/r/PopCornTime/comments/fluait/the_vpn_integration_in_40_is_way_too_obnoxious/)

------
zmaten
Anyone actually tried this update?

 _1\. It deletes your favorites folder

2\. An obnoxious blinking icon in the main page and a label while the stream
is being prepared is trying to nudge you into buying a VPN service

3\. The option to load subtitles is botched_

Here if you want the old(0.3.x) version:
[https://get.popcorntime.app/repo/build/](https://get.popcorntime.app/repo/build/)

------
sm4rk0
Why 4.0 in title when it's actually v0.4.0?

[https://github.com/popcorn-official/popcorn-
desktop/releases...](https://github.com/popcorn-official/popcorn-
desktop/releases/tag/v0.4.0)

------
KenanSulayman
It's rather suspicious that the macOS binaries are distributed as pkg files
requiring root permissions...

Edit: the binaries inside seem OK. I assume it's to bypass the Gatekeeper
lockdown when a user downloads an app file.

------
wayoutthere
Just in time for the coronavirus lockdown that has the major ISPs throttling
torrents to nothing due to network congestion.

~~~
llcoolv
I am not really sure if it is the ISPs' conspiracy or that there is simply a
lot more demand than supply. E.g. limited seeding a lot of leeching. Last
night I wasn't able to open any of the two bittorrent catalogs that I use
(PBay and rarbg).

~~~
wayoutthere
Oh I don't think it's a conspiracy; I think it's just network congestion.
Torrent traffic has been QoSed to hell for a long time (as it should be tbh),
so when there's congestion it's the first thing to get dropped.

FWIW I'm getting a lot of frameskips from my video chats, so I think it's
legitimately congested.

~~~
rckclmbr
> as it should be tbh

Absolutely not. There are very legal reasons torrents are used (its great for
releasing large datasets). Isps should treat all data the same.

~~~
wayoutthere
Anyone with the "all data is the same!" mindset hasn't worked in a carrier-
scale network. QoS with packet prioritization is an absolute must from an ops
standpoint; otherwise your DNS queries would be prioritized at the same rate
as someone streaming Netflix. Drop Netflix packets and the video quality
degrades a little; drop DNS packets and you effectively have a total outage
and customers are burning up your phone lines. DNS and SYN/ACK are probably
the highest priority, but there are other tiers for things like VoIP, online
games, etc. that have good reasons to go above "bulk" traffic.

It's more about latency sensitivity than anything; but with asymmetric
connections (which many ISPs, particularly cable, are forced into for very
good technical reasons) Torrents in particular can have a disproportionate
impact on available upstream bandwidth. For that reason, most ISPs will crush
Torrent downstream to limit upstream data rates (which they can't QoS as
easily). I can't say it's the wrong call; and it has nothing to do with the
legality of whatever people are downloading.

------
k__
What did they change?

~~~
TheGallopedHigh
They likely have a release notes...

~~~
seemethere
Changelog hasn't been updated in 3 years. :/

[https://github.com/popcorn-official/popcorn-
desktop/blob/v0....](https://github.com/popcorn-official/popcorn-
desktop/blob/v0.4.0/CHANGELOG.md)

------
kristerv
CHANGELOG.md's last entry is

0.3.10 Beta - Popcorn Is Love - 31 October 2016

No info anywhere. Did it actually change?

~~~
mpalmer
Quite a bit: [https://github.com/popcorn-official/popcorn-
desktop/compare/...](https://github.com/popcorn-official/popcorn-
desktop/compare/v0.3.9-flatpak0-a...v0.4.0)

No write-up I can find though.

------
globular-toast
What effect is this going to have on torrent swarms? It seems to me that if
everyone downloaded blocks in order it would defeat the purpose of bittorrent
and mean the beginning would be seeded much better than the end.

------
Avalaxy
When I download it, it's blocked by Windows Defender. Does anyone know why?

~~~
longas
Windows blocks it because the app is not digitally signed with a Code Signing
Certificate ($200+/year). You can still install it if you press in the "Show
more" button and then "Run anyway".

~~~
mindslight
The problem likely isn't the money, but rather it would paint a big red target
on their back with a legal entity to sue. And it wouldn't surprise me if
Microsoft would easily revoke a certificate, even without any legal judgment.

That's the problem with code signing. It's just an attempt to graft the status
quo monkeysphere onto the digital realm - you "know" the author of the code,
so therefore you trust it completely, because you can sue them post-hoc if
they harm you. This doesn't scale to the digital world, but that hasn't
stopped these unimaginative power-hungry companies from trying to force us
into it.

------
techntoke
Torrents are terrible for streaming unless you get invited to a private
tracker, and then you end up having to share a bunch too making yourself a
bigger target.

------
kapsteur
The timing is juste perfect

------
llcoolv
Or ghettoflix as we call it :D

Is this the same repo that is in Archlinux AUR?

~~~
captn3m0
Yes:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22604114](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22604114)

------
aorth
Wow, you need npm, bower, yarn, and gulp to build and run this thing. Pretty
cool, though...

~~~
Kaze404
Or you can just download the appropriate binary for your system.

------
rafaelvasco
If it's not on Netflix or any streaming provider, I have no choice but to
pirate it. Plain and simple. Most media content is still outside the main
providers.

~~~
olah_1
Pro-tip: You can now digitally rent basically every movie from Youtube or
Amazon.

Services like [https://www.justwatch.com/](https://www.justwatch.com/) make it
easy to not break the law. I used to use Popcorn time all the time, but
honestly it kinda feels good to not steal /shrug

~~~
sakarisson
I don't have an ethical problem with illegally pirating content either, but it
does grind my gears when people make that kind argument. Nothing is forcing
anyone to illegally download Westworld. Digital content isn't essential for
your well-being, so I find always find it very odd when people try to justify
stealing it.

~~~
Mediterraneo10
> Digital content isn't essential for your well-being

It is essential for one's erudition, which historically has been considered
important for an informed citizenry that knows the good and the beautiful.

Take the mid-20th century canon of films, works by directors like Ozu,
Kurosawa, Godard, Truffaut, Antonioni, etc. These are recognized as classics
of film art and part of our general cultural heritage now. However, due to
changes in legislation in the years since they were made, they are still under
copyright, and so a person would have to spend thousands of dollars to legally
obtain a cultural education that, in this day and age, ought to be available
to anyone regardless of their means. A person pirating such films is not
necessarily doing it for daft entertainment (because often these classics are
not particularly fun and entertaining), but simply to learn and be familiar
with the canon.

And before you say that one can turn to the library instead of torrenting:
many countries around the world never had well-stocked libraries to begin
with. In fact, in some of these same countries it can be less than
straightforward to purchase the content even if one has the money to spend.

------
songshuu
Best news of 2020. Literally.

------
awicz
Serious question about torrents: How is this not stealing? I'm not trying to
be judgemental. I certainly don't have any room to do so as I used Napster and
the likes back in the day. Now with the advent of Amazon Prime, Hulu, Netflix,
etc, I'm genuinely curious to know the moral argument for using services and
platforms that utilize torrents to distribute media other creators are
actually trying to sell?

Edit: Apparently this question has upset a good number of people. It was a
genuine inquiry. It would have been nice to see your thoughts in written form
instead of the downvotes.

To those that did answer--thanks! Really incredible how complicated the
licensing arrangements are across the world.

~~~
q3k
We were fine for a while. Netflix killed film/series piracy for me - for a
while it literally made no sense.

Then, every copyright owner realized they want a slice of the streaming cake -
(HBO, Disney+, all the cable networks...) and started making their content
exclusive on their platforms. Now, instead of a single Netflix (or anyone
else, really) subscription I would have to pay for a dozen, that I would
rarely use for more than one series/film. Or I can't even get it at all,
because it's not available in my country. Or only available with subtitles in
a language I don't understand. Or I can't watch it on the hardware I want to.

The music industry got their shit together and even the most copyright-
paranoid artists are on Spotify, or on Bandcamp (which is subscription-free).
When the film industry does the same I'll gladly start paying them money
again.

~~~
deanstag
In that case, what is the maximum amount of subscription fee that you are
willing to shell out before resorting to piracy?

~~~
Dirlewanger
You already know that answer is going to be different for everyone, so I don't
know why you bother asking it.

A better question is when are film studios going to stop profiteering with
their license fees and allow their works to be available on any platform
(instead of meticulously negotiating with one platform and moving around every
couple months).

~~~
deanstag
The question opens up other questions exactly like you mentioned. For eg: If
it was never about the price point, and more about it being available on a
single platform, would you be fine with paying a very high subscription fee
for a platform which holds all the catalogues?

Let me be clear, I torrent things too, but I've never really had an answer to
the piracy question. I wouldnt just want to blame it on all the studios
seperating out the catalogues into their own service.

~~~
illumanaughty
I'd at least like to see what a more fair & open content market would look
like. So far it's just anti-competitive, anti-consumer bullshit for TV &
Movies. I haven't pirated a game after Steam got big. I haven't pirated any
music after Spotify came around. Clearly the model works.

~~~
kkarakk
Literally Youtube. If google actually seriously got into the media business by
buying up some smaller film catalogs worldwide(i'm sure AMC/criterion/some
other country specific catalog collections will be easily purchasable for them
as a starter), we could see streaming services go under overnight.

I think anti-trust litigation from old lawmakers is the only thing stopping
them

~~~
pythonaut_16
Kind of an interesting angle. YouTube is limited in how it can compete against
the film monopoly/oligopoly due to broader anti-trust concerns at Google

------
rezeroed
I wonder to what degree piracy serves as marketing ie someone pirates the film
then tells three non-pirates what a good film it was, and they pay for it.

------
thatsnotmepls
Popcorn Time or Stremio?

