
Child's play - OpenDrapery
http://devreaction.blogspot.com/2017/04/childs-play.html
======
__jal
I don't know that it is worse for devs than other workers. Have any of you
seen the incredibly demeaning chanting/cheering fake-excitement bullshit that
service workers have to put up with[1]? And that's for shit pay, little
meaningful chance of advancement and crappy alternatives.

Being talked down to by a bean counter in a superhero suit is empowering in
comparison.

[1] For one example, google "wallmart pep rally".

~~~
rdiddly
This was satirized pretty well in the movie Office Space with the "15 pieces
of flair" thing...

------
themodelplumber
I'm far removed from this particular scene, but doesn't anyone else get the
sense that we as a world culture are starting to get a better grip on the
concept of taking care of one another? Surely "infantilization" is one
possible awkward misstep in such a process, but the signs mentioned don't
point only toward immaturity. They also point toward fun, work-life balance,
and broader availability of gentle workplace training and onboarding. Guess I
could be wrong, but I'd rather have this kind of infantilization than some of
the other missteps like dehumanization that we see in other work environments.
People can be taught to grow up over time, but oppression is a much harder
problem.

~~~
risotto_groupon
There's nothing funnier than watching a new manager who's good with clients
try to onboard somebody.

I wish there were firmer guidelines and pay structure around the title,
"practice lead", that it came with the same face time with the C-Suite, and
non-billable hours to actually do the job of onboarding and workplace training
as managers get.

------
CPLX
I feel like we've been infantalizing an entire generation. From where I stand
it seems like marketing to millenials is oddly pedantic. Meme culture,
"doggos", baby talk in tweets and texts, "adulting" and the strange pedantic
tone you see in ads, all feel connected. I'm not sure if it's developer thing,
or just a cultural thing.

Granted, I'm well aware the above is almost a caricature of what an old guy
would say. Happens I guess.

~~~
walshemj
Well a couple of decades ago IBM for example had very "infantile" rules "fired
for being seen in a Mc Donalds" let alone the older IBM songbook tradition!

~~~
Jtsummers
IBM was controlling, not infantilizing (at least with that example).

Infantilizing is companies thinking that they can win over employees with ping
pong tables, free sodas, and not give them, you know, actual compensation.

Of course, as the dot com boom demonstrated, many in our industry fell for it.

~~~
walshemj
Well I think having a company songbook and starting the day with a song just
like primary school is.

~~~
Jtsummers
That's fair. I was specifically referring to the McDonald's bit (and what I
know of their former dress code). I had meant to look up the songbook thing.

EDIT: Actually, looking at that songbook, I'd still say it leans more towards
controlling than infantilizing. By having people participate in a common
display like that you get them to act as a group (positive thing), but based
on the lyrics they're almost like corporate versions of
jingoistic/nationalistic songs. It's a brainwashing thing.

This is still very different than infantilizing. It does signal a lack of
respect for their employees (to a degree). But it does not indicate treating
them as _children_.

------
stanleydrew
If you don't want to be infantilized, don't go to the conferences where you
feel infantilized and don't find your jobs through contracting firms that
treat you like an infant.

You are not powerless in your situation. Stand up for yourself.

~~~
codeiscodeman
Bingo! Vote with your feet.

------
hoborama
> "I hate being called 'IT'"

Oh man I hate this. An "IT" job to me just means an admin job where the
subject of the admin tasks happens to be computers.

It's worse when "IT workers" try to lump actual technically-skilled roles in
with them, like it's just another task to be performed.

~~~
dcow
Um wow there's a lot wrong with this comment. But that aside, what if I told
you programming was just modern accounting, glorified data entry? All
programmers do is put code into repositories. Very very few people are
actually inventing new systems and algorithms. If you're a "framework
programmer" you know what I mean.

Anyway point is it's a spectrum. Yes some "IT" labor is menial, but I also
know IT people who know way more about security and networking and identity
etc. than most software engineers will in their entire career.

~~~
hoborama
I would put security experts and networking experts in the "technically-
skilled" category. However, my experience of most people who have something
like "IT security" in their job title, is that they're just the guy who
updates a spreadsheet that has a list of security policies in it, and they
send emails out to people who have breached one of those policies. Admin.

------
phlakaton
There's a big difference between "childlike" and "childish." I see nothing
wrong with professionals that engage with media and culture that stokes our
childlike sense of wonder and play, and I count us fortunate indeed to live in
a time and place where such luxury exists. It never ceases to astonish me just
how far geeky interests have invaded the mainstream over the years.

A danger is the potential exclusion of people who do not participate in that
specific culture, and that's something I'm more cognizant of now than I was in
the past. If you should have a concern about the interweaving of tech
professions and geek culture, I figure this is the most important one.

As an adult, my relationship to comics and geek culture has definitely changed
enormously from where it was when I was a child, a teenager, or a college
student. Things I thought were awesome I now see as cheesy, trite, or
problematic. Things I didn't appreciate earlier on have come to take on new
resonance. A few things have remained constant. The opening fanfare to Star
Wars, for example, when infrequently presented in a dark theater, will
probably never stop sending shivers down my spine.

The trick, then, is to approach the intersection of tech professions and geek
culture as grown-ups, shrugging off the (usually blatant) attempts at
manufacturing hype, and enjoying the real connection that our culture affords,
without pursuing it to exclusion.

------
Mountain_Skies
Seems like this has been a common thread in tech for a long time. In Douglas
Couplamd's 1995 novel 'Microserfs' one of the main characters lamented how
tech employers infantile their employees. Perhaps this is a lingering effect
from the early days of home computer when there was a large explosion in very
young programmers and things have just carried over through the years?

------
ryanianian
The consulting shops get a hefty cut of the pay (and it's hard for them to
find and place talent too), so they feel compelled to do everything they can
to make things work. Not to say these things aren't patronizing/infantilizing
and due to be shut-down, but until the supply/demand situation works itself
out, we'll likely just replace one weird attention/talent-grab gambit for
another.

Another possibility would be for these companies to just pay more and "cut the
crap". If companies paid more, there would be more talent on the market
(presumably) and companies wouldn't need to put on the dog-and-pony shows to
attract and retain because the economics are doing that for them.

(And of course there are people who like the dog-and-pony shows and the 'un-
corporate' vibe of these things. Power to them, but at least personally it
would be nice for the "cut the crap and pay more" idea to be more common.)

------
mewse-hn
I don't think some leader acting like Michael Scott and dressing up like
Captain America points to a broader problem of childishness in the industry.
I'd agree with other commenters that the reference to "a female or two [to]
work the booth" is more problematic, culturally.

------
thedz
Infantilization seems to be a wholly inaccurate description of the behavior;
"pandering" or "courting" is much more accurate.

TBH, if folks are having fun, and companies want to join in, I see nothing
wrong with it. Devs are likely aware that the companies don't normally wear
super hero costumes, and companies are probably aware that making a good first
impression is only the first part of a successful relationship.

The blog post seems to have a pretty toxic view of employers (there are a
bunch of assumed "to be explored" paragraphs), and I think that view is
poisoning the entire experience.

~~~
__jal
Companies don't wear superhero costumes. Companies also don't have fun or
awareness. This is because companies are a collection of contracts, not living
things.

Some person dressed in the costume. They may have been "representing" a
company, but that doesn't matter. It was still a human acting like a
condescending twit for their own reasons.

I'm not sure what's "toxic" about identifying insulting behaviors in others. I
don't want to be around people who do things like that, whether or not I work
for them, and many others feel the same way. Being an employer doesn't mean
you suddenly get to be horrible and not get called on it. (It just means your
employees might be afraid to call you on it until they can get out from under
you.)

------
LandR
> If you've ever been placed in a job by a contracting firm, you know this
> routine. Oftentimes, the agent will meet you at the employer's office, and
> walk you in.

This is a thing? Never seen this!

~~~
walshemj
This is a W2 "contractor" aka disguised employment with shit rates for the
contractor.

Id expect 2.5 to 3x my FTE rate in the UK where in the USA people seem
surprised that people dare it ask for even 20% more.

------
ChicagoBoy11
Most definitely my favorite example of this ever:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5LiUrezV6k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5LiUrezV6k)

~~~
ropeadopepope
I like this one. It's funnier.

"This reminds me of north korea"

[https://ytcropper.com/cropped/YZ5ad7ac55e5e3b](https://ytcropper.com/cropped/YZ5ad7ac55e5e3b)

------
codeiscodeman
Salesforce is a big time offender here.

Trailhead Conference was absolutely pedantic not only did you have the booth
babes with the cheap Chinese promo objects. They turn the Moscone center into
a goddamned forest, we're talking theme park level decor complete with
furries.

I found it cult-like and infantile. Seemed like people were eating it up, not
really ever going back.

-Grumpy 30 y/o dev

~~~
codeiscodeman
I sat in a fiber glass canoe with an oculus VR head set to play a custom made
Salesforce game...

This company sells a CRM...

But what they really sell is a dream but you gotta pay to play. The bigger
they get the more they take away.

------
ebbv
Isn't this just a reflection of changes our culture generally?

When I was a kid "grown men" were only allowed to be really into sports or
maybe cars. Now those barriers of what is "acceptable" for adults to be into
(among other things) are broken down.

As far as someone dressing up as a super hero for a professional conference;
I'm sure if you could dig through the reports of Comdex from the 80s you'll
find lots of ridiculous stuff. Most of which would be totally unacceptable
today.

Also I think the author maybe should have taken a little more care when
referencing attractive females working the booth to contextualize it for
people that won't give him the benefit of the doubt that he was pointing out
it was absurd. Gender politics being a hot button issue right now.

~~~
fred_is_fred
None of this post is new or groundbreaking, it's been that way at every
conference I've been to for 15 years. If anything we've moved to less booth
babes, more kitchzy comic book characters - that's ok with me.

------
rdiddly
Trade shows or any place where you're basically a sales prospect are all about
infantilizing you as much as possible. An adult thinks long-term, is
independent, makes/does things using skill, doesn't need pampering... and a
host of other characteristics that are inconvenient to the sales process.

------
ravitation
If Captain America was instead dressed in a suit, would more people talk to
him? In almost any context? I doubt it.

~~~
coldtea
Sure. Most would rather speak to someone in a suit than in someone wearing
their underpants on the outside and with full-on nationalistic emblems on
their spandex uniform.

~~~
ravitation
What version of Captain America has underpants on the outside? I'm not
familiar with that version of the character's outfit...

On a more serious note, the point of the comment is that if the context allows
you to be taken relatively seriously in a superhero outfit, it might not be a
bad idea to attract people to a booth... Yes, those contexts might not be
extremely common.

~~~
coldtea
> _What version of Captain America has underpants on the outside? I 'm not
> familiar with that version of the character's outfit..._

Perhaps you only know him from the movies?

Most versions of Captain America do have this characteristic:

[http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/c/captainamerica....](http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/c/captainamerica.htm)

[https://www.geeksaresexy.net/2016/05/07/captain-america-
cost...](https://www.geeksaresexy.net/2016/05/07/captain-america-costumes-
evolution-super-soldier-infographic/)

------
roywiggins
to be honest I find it hard to take writing that uses "females" as a synonym
for "women" super seriously

~~~
Mountain_Skies
In current culture, especially SV, not all women are female. It is necessary
to specify female if one is actually referring to biological sex instead of
cultural gender. Some find this an annoying distinction but it is the cultural
norm in an increasingly growing number of places.

~~~
waisbrot
But the story obviously wasn't referring to biological sex, but rather to the
gender presented by the booth-worker. So "female" was also the incorrect term,
besides being off-putting.

------
tomc1985
I do wonder why something so serious has turned into something so childish.

But then the other day I got a haircut and while waiting to pay spied a shelf
full of beard products in that cute, hipster art style, the whole display
blending in perfectly with all the other hair products. It's difficult to
watch something we have defined as the apex of manliness (beards) being
treated with the same tone of voice as cosmetics and children's toys.

Infantilisation is endemic at the moment, and I see it as part of a
comprehensive attack on American masculinity.

~~~
vorpalhex
But even those cases where the beard products are on wire shelves with
minimalistic old school labels, that's still just a marketing trick where
someone did analysis and thought that strategy would be better for their
demographic.

If you want to escape infantilisation, you need to in many ways escape
consumerism and go back to the days of just whipping up your own beard oils.

~~~
tomc1985
Exactly. That popular, cute 'craft' style is winning out because it resonates
with the target audience. (Same with that popular, functional aesthetic you
describe.)

I guess I am against the softening of traditionally 'hard' things. Painful to
watch our world (even software!) devolve into bright colors and cute mascots.

One could also interpret this phenomenon as young adults refusing to grow up
-- hanging on to childish symbolism concomitant with the rest of millennials'
(economically necessary) delayed development into adulthood.

And for the record I am (unwillingly) part of the millennial set and do not
have a beard.

