
Sweden’s violent reality is undoing a peaceful self-image - kushti
https://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-bombings-grenade-attacks-violent-reality-undoing-peaceful-self-image-law-and-order/
======
uoaei
I was born in the US, moved to Sweden last year. I live in an area of the
country that seems to have been designated as a place to put migrants, and it
shows.

People have different cultural expectations, and act accordingly. It's no
surprise that meshing the two viewpoints is difficult. But the biggest
disservice, IMO, is segregating them into their own communities. Here there is
no incentive to integrate, and life continues as before--in some ways opposed
to the ideals that Sweden tries to set forth.

You are what you surround yourself with. Sweden is far from multicultural, and
prefers (well, kind of railroaded itself into) playing the "live and let live"
card a little too ideologically without considering the long-term impacts. The
one that is the most apparent to me is the way housing is handled, and how it
affects not only migrants but any immigrant coming here for any purpose.

------
Simulacra
This seems awfully skewed. Not sure it belongs here

------
alkonaut
The title is a bit misleading: Shootings are up but violent crime is down.
Basically, an influx of guns it would seem. We used to have barely any in
circulation, but obviously they will be smuggled to where they collect the
highest price (most illegal weapons are Balkan war arms as I understand it).

------
angel_j
Good for them! They are handling their problems without going crazy
reactionary, and declaring war on immigrants, the poor, drugs, etc.

That would be in line with their "Swedish Model". The article reads like a
"tattle tale", as if they are trying to hide explosions! A grenade in an US
police station would shake the wasp's nest all the way to the national guard.

It's precisely that "Western Democracies" crony ideology that demands the
media and government react with pitch forks and blame.

~~~
refurb
Considering the grenade attacks have been going on for years, I'd say they
aren't handling the problems at all.

------
aphextron
The Nordic states have been some of the biggest winners in the world from
globalization over the past 30 years. They've been safely protected by NATO,
and free to sell their oil to anyone in the world. Now the world comes
knocking and you want to cry foul? Either accept the rough and tumble,
multicultural, imperfect world that we live in with open arms as we have in
the US, or wall yourself off and don't expect any of the benefits.

~~~
amag
> free to sell their oil

Sweden doesn't have any oil to sell. We're also not crying foul about the
increase in shootings as if the rest of the world is to blame. There is
definitely a problem here in regards to the shootings, but it's also election
year and some parties have a bigger interest than others in portraying Sweden
as a lawless country.

------
Micoloth
TRUMP WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG

..or was he?

No seriously tho, at this point I legit can't understand anymore if this is
fake news or not. Crime rate is not supposed to be subjective is it?

Good job us!

~~~
canoebuilder
_Crime rate is not supposed to be subjective is it?_

Welcome to clown world.

[https://www.google.com/search?q=sweden+cover+up](https://www.google.com/search?q=sweden+cover+up)

[https://www.google.com/search?q=sweden+white+pixelation](https://www.google.com/search?q=sweden+white+pixelation)

------
psychometry
Is Sweden's supposed failure to integrate migrants into society really a
failure in a historical context? I would guess that it would take at least a
generation to see the fruits of initiatives to encourage integration. Migrants
are fleeing a dysfunctional and oppressive ISIS regime, but even these
oppressed people harbor views that many Westerners consider regressive and
authoritarian. How do you even approach this problem?

~~~
canoebuilder
_I would guess that it would take at least a generation to see the fruits of
initiatives to encourage integration._

We are decades into this horrible experiment gone awry in much of western
Europe. The second and third generations are integrating to a lesser extent
than their parents in part due to rising numbers of their compatriots and
their inherently anti-integration ideology. Much of the Islamic violence is
carried out by second and third generations.

There are about 3 million Turks in Germany stemming from a Gastarbeiter (guest
worker) program starting in the 50s and 60s, being "guest workers," the idea
was they would return to Turkey, most never did and today still live in their
own neighborhoods and enclaves largely separate from the rest of Germany.

Regarding this history and other problems, Angela Merkel herself said what
everyone can see,
[https://www.google.com/search?q=merkel+multiculturalism+fail...](https://www.google.com/search?q=merkel+multiculturalism+failed)

------
jeffreyrogers
I'm hesitant to comment on this because I expect to have my viewpoints be
misrepresented as racist, but it seems difficult to integrate immigrants into
society who fundamentally oppose core principles of progressive, western
democracies.

~~~
stcredzero
_it seems difficult to integrate immigrants into society who fundamentally
oppose core principles of progressive, western democracies._

It's difficult, but spanning as great a gulf in societal integration has been
done.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHr9GRgRw_M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHr9GRgRw_M)

~~~
bassman9000
_as great a gulf in societal integration_

It doesn't seem that cultural differences between Catholics and Protestants
were that big. Economic ones, true. But those two big branches were one for
1500 years. I may be missing something here.

~~~
stcredzero
_It doesn 't seem that cultural differences between Catholics and Protestants
were that big. Economic ones, true._

Urban areas where police wouldn't go unless in groups. Terrorist/criminal
organizations which administered their own law, judgements, and punishments.
Political corruption. Seen by many as completely non-hire-able. The cultural
gap wasn't religiously comprised, but the gulf was about as large. There was
even also talk of the religious dogma of the immigrant group being
incompatible with national sovereignty.

------
Zolomon
This does not reflect at all with my own experience living in both south of
Sweden and in Stockholm. Feels like misinformation in order to spread FUD
about Sweden.

~~~
danielvf
I hear people talk about how they would never move to the US because of how
violent it is. And yet the reality of living in the US middle class is that
violence almost never affects you or the areas you frequent. Most shootings in
the US are between criminals, and happen in high crime areas that are
geographically small in comparison to the entire country.

I'm guessing this is similar in Sweden. It sounds like specific areas have
increasing violence, and that this looks even worse, given the country's
historical low rates of violence.

~~~
ropeadopepope
> I'm guessing this is similar in Sweden. It sounds like specific areas have
> increasing violence, and that this looks even worse, given the country's
> historical low rates of violence.

No, Swedish violence has been accelerating past what even Americans would
consider acceptable. Unless there's been a spat of grenade attacks in the US
that the media hasn't been covering.

[http://www.informationliberation.com/files/grenade-
attacks-s...](http://www.informationliberation.com/files/grenade-attacks-
sweden-575x444.jpg)

PS: That number is even higher for 2017 and 2018.

------
mpweiher
[https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/polisen-43-personer-
skots...](https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/polisen-43-personer-skots-till-
dods-2017)

43 people were shot in Sweden in 2017, in a country of almost 10 million.

That's 0.43 / 100K.

The US gun homicide rate in 2016 was 4.62 / 100K.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-r...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-
related_death_rate)

Chicago had 650 homicides in 2017, down from 762 in 2016, with a population of
2.7 million.

[http://www.blacknews.com/news/chicago-sees-drop-in-
violence-...](http://www.blacknews.com/news/chicago-sees-drop-in-violence-
after-all-time-high-last-year-but-is-still-a-very-deadly-city/amp/)

Just to put things into perspective.

~~~
Yetanfou
Not only that, the violence is largely concentrated in a number of areas where
the homicide rate is markedly higher. Both the number of these areas as well
as their size are increasing, as does the intensity of the violence.

Possibly the biggest problem in Sweden is that it is still taboo to discuss
the facts around this increased crime rate, even though those facts are well
known and have been confirmed many times. As long as this taboo persists it
will be impossible for Sweden to do anything about these problems as any
action which goes counter the narrative of those who prefer to look away will
be branded: racist, xenophobe, islamophobe, 'against our ethical
foundation'[1], hostile to strangers ('främlingsfientligt').

Good examples of this can be seen in the recent spat at KTH (a technical
university) where a student was about to be sacked because he'd made a
document summarising the results of different studies on the subject of the
relationship between rising crime and the number of immigrants from the
Middle-East and Africa. The document itself did nothing more than summarise
the results of these studies but this was deemed unacceptable because it was
said to violate the institute's 'värdegrund'[1]. KTH directly violated the
Swedish constitution which guarantees freedom of expression [2] but it was
only when the subject was taken up in several alternative media that KTH
backed down. Regular Swedish media did not publish anything on this subject
until much later.

A similar case just surfaced where a school rector actually reported some
students to the security police (SÄPO) and regular police for publishing a
similar document, again just a summary of conclusions of official reports [3].
It is highly unlikely that the police will do anything, let alone the security
police but the mere fact that publishing statistics can be ground for removal
from an institution or reporting to the authorities shows how deep the taboo
goes in certain areas.

[1] The Swedish concept of 'värdegrund' and 'allas lika värde', a form of non-
religious dogma which trumps law and common sense in that violating it
directly raises a black flag. It can be summed up as 'moral relativism'.

[2]
[http://academicrightswatch.se/?p=3226](http://academicrightswatch.se/?p=3226)

[3] [http://www.friatider.se/gymnasieungdomar-skrev-faktablad-
om-...](http://www.friatider.se/gymnasieungdomar-skrev-faktablad-om-
invandring-anm-ls-till-s-po-av-rektorn)

~~~
hedwall
You're referencing two far right extremist sites as source...

~~~
Yetanfou
Sigh, it is almost as if you're trying to prove my point by putting a label on
something and thereby banishing it.

Fria Tider is not "far right extremist", not even in the context of Sweden. In
Sweden they'd be "right-wing" or "liberal", in the US they'd be
center/liberal. Academic Rights watch is just that, a site which calls
attention to trends in academia to limit freedom of expression. Since those
who try to limit freedom of expression are on the left side of the political
spectrum you'll find many stories of these issues from people who are not on
that side.

Nordfront is "far right". I did not refer to Nordfront. But¸ if Nordfront had
something interesting to say I'd refer to them as it is the message which
counts, not the messenger.

------
ique
Hahaha really HN? As a Swede this is so ridiculous, I don't think the author
has any idea what they're talking about and have done no fact-checking at all.
They even contradict themselves.

> drop in homicides has been, however, far smaller in Sweden than in
> neighboring countries

So there's been a drop in homicides

> Shootings in the country have become so common

But shootings have _become_ so common? So they're just missing more or what?

What a ridiculous article, I guess HN is the new Fox news.

~~~
specializeded
HN is a link aggregator and this link will probably be flagged off the front
page in less than ten minutes, I’d direct ire at Politico in this case.

 _edit_ less than 1 minute apparently!

~~~
dogma1138
Politico, Economist, The Spectstor all have simmilar articles with the same
statistics either they are all “fake news” or something is going on.

~~~
maxerickson
If you are talking about [https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/02/violent-crime-
in-sweden-...](https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/02/violent-crime-in-sweden-is-
soaring-when-will-politicians-act/)

It was written by the same person as this story and is time stamped about a
month before the Economist piece (they anon). But the articles don't
particularly seem to be independent phenomena.

~~~
dogma1138
It seems to be the same journalist (this isn't that uncommon) but she doesn't
appear to be the swedish Alex Jones either..

[https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulina_Neuding](https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulina_Neuding)

The LocalSE (linked above you can search for more by yourself I've had people
mention to me that it apparently is a neonazi site but i'm pretty sure were to
the left of Corbyn so make up your own mind) and Radio Sweden (which is
Sweden's official broadcaster) all have the same stories.

[http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&art...](http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&artikel=6919477)

[http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&art...](http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&artikel=6848368)

[http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&art...](http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&artikel=6862333)

(these are the 3 first results retrieved by searching "radio sweden shootings"
(without quotes) on Google.co.uk in incognito mode. YRMV)

Sveriges Radio is essentially Swedish NPR or the BBC (pre television) so I
have very high doubts that is pushes some highly contentious political
agenda....

~~~
maxerickson
I'm aware it isn't uncommon, it's just less remarkable that a couple outfits
would carry opinion pieces by the same person than it might be if they were
opinion pieces by different people.

And that's the part of the article people are responding to, the opinion, the
stuff that isn't in the Sveriges text, about how Sweden should be afraid of
what it has done to itself. The Sveriges piece does mention that the homicide
rate is still lower than Finland...

~~~
dogma1138
Homicides in total yes, but they also disclose that the gun violence is higher
than it's neighbours.

"We have a big problem with gang-related violence"
[http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&art...](http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&artikel=6770170)

And based on these numbers
[http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&art...](http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&artikel=6004910)
it seems that from 2014 to 2017 the number of shootings increased by about
50%, and the number of fatalities have also increased considerably.

And while I don't think that Sweden is as dangerous as Mexico or even the US I
do think there is a growing problem there and what scares me even more is the
response you often get which what the GP posted above is the most "vanilla"
version of it, he or she simply dismissed it and asked if HN is becoming Fox
News more often than not you'll simply be stamped as a "trump
supporter/nazi/alt-righter" regardless of the context by simply trying to
discuss the issue.

The last Jewish friend of mine that lived Malmo left in February this year
with her family to Denmark the cause was this:
[http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=96&artik...](http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=96&artikel=6839254)

A "demonstration" with 200-300 people proclaiming that they will go and kill
Jews and reminding them that the army of Muhammed is returning.

And as far as I know not a single arrest has been made despite the event being
promoted on social media and live footage of it available.

