
Ask HN: As a young developer, how can I launch a successful freelancing career? - kiraken
I started learning web development at an early age, and a few years back i started freelancing using the freelancer.com platform. But it&#x27;s no secret that freelancer.com has bad business values and is basically ripping off all developers, not to mention it&#x27;s low prices and bad clients. So i&#x27;m wandering how can i launch a successful freelancing business while being a college student, without being tide to a platform, since i don&#x27;t have any experience in doing so, and don&#x27;t know where to get the clients.
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cweagans
Also, I hate to be "that guy", but spelling and grammar are both important if
you're going to be selling $x0000 projects (and you should be). In this post
alone, I noticed "wandering" and "tide to a platform". It's important. Always
write as if a client is going to read it, because it's very possible that they
will.

~~~
kiraken
Didn't really proofread my submission, and i do apologies for the poor quality
of my post

~~~
not_kurt_godel
Proofread everything you write. Including this post as well - "apologies"
should be "apologize", "i" needs to be capitalized, and you need to include a
period at the end of the sentence.

------
outsidetheparty
I was a freelance designer and web developer for about a dozen years before I
started my current gig.

Approximately 80% of my clients came either directly or indirectly through
contacts I had met in the few years _before_ I became a freelancer. Even for
the other 20%, the knowledge I picked up during my dilbert years helped me
enormously -- if I hadn't had that first-hand experience of my now-customers
point of view, I'd have been far less effective at my job: I wouldn't have
understood what they needed (which is often not the same as what they ask for,
or what they think they need) or how best to fill those needs.

I'm a strong believer that to be a good freelancer, you have to have put in at
least some time on the other side of the desk. All the good freelance money is
in corporate work. Startups can't afford you. Mom-and-pops need so much hand-
holding and education that it's not worth putting in the hours teaching them
why what they want is physically impossible or why that custom layout costs
more than the wordpress template they found on crappyfreewordpresstemplates
dot com or etc. Big slow corporations are the ones with both the need and the
money to spend, but to work with them you really need to be able to speak
their language.

------
wallflower
> Sixthly. I will pass on some secret freelancer knowledge. Secret knowledge
> is always good. And it is useful for anyone who ever plans to create art for
> other people, to enter a freelance world of any kind. I learned it in
> comics, but it applies to other fields too. And it's this:

People get hired because, somehow, they get hired. In my case I did something
which these days would be easy to check, and would get me into trouble, and
when I started out, in those pre-internet days, seemed like a sensible career
strategy: when I was asked by editors who I'd worked for, I lied. I listed a
handful of magazines that sounded likely, and I sounded confident, and I got
jobs. I then made it a point of honour to have written something for each of
the magazines I'd listed to get that first job, so that I hadn't actually
lied, I'd just been chronologically challenged... You get work however you get
work.

People keep working, in a freelance world, and more and more of today's world
is freelance, because their work is good, and because they are easy to get
along with, and because they deliver the work on time. And you don't even need
all three. Two out of three is fine. People will tolerate how unpleasant you
are if your work is good and you deliver it on time. They'll forgive the
lateness of the work if it's good, and if they like you. And you don't have to
be as good as the others if you're on time and it's always a pleasure to hear
from you.

Neil Gaiman, Commencement Address

[https://vimeo.com/42372767](https://vimeo.com/42372767)

------
joshavant
I once took six months off to freelance early in my career, and failed
spectacularly.

Four years later, I took six months off and tried the same, and was able to
replicate my full-time salary without too much difficulty.

YMMV, my by experience is having a few years of solid, full-time employment
experience (along with good portfolio, network, and all the other things a
freelance career requires) will pay dividends in the freelance field -
primarily in convincing potential clients you're skilled enough to accomplish
their projects.

~~~
pyre
> along with ... network

I'm curious. Are you talking networking with other developers, or within a
niche (e.g. with potential clients)?

~~~
joshavant
Literally everyone you know, both professional and personally.

When staring in freelancing, at least initially, you will be casting a line
out into the vast pool of the people you know, and desperately hoping someone
has a need for your services, bites, and ultimately gives you some money.

Some of my initial freelancing gigs came from places like stray tweets, random
run-ins at non-tech-related parties, VC friends who passed my name on to their
portfolio companies, ex-bosses who did the same, etc etc.

For many, freelancing, at first, can be getting on by the seat of your pants
and simply hoping the cosmos divines you with a new gig (often from somewhere
or someone you never saw coming) before your savings account dwindles to zero.

------
dpcan
I've been consulting/freelancing for about 13 years professionally, full-time.
Started when I was 23. From day 1 until today, for me, it's all been "who you
know" and "tell a friend" when it comes to getting new business.

I started asking friends and family if they needed a website, help with web
work, or an office IT guy.

I found a few people who needed a website that way, did a great job, and they
told more people about my services, getting me a bit more work.

How I REALLY started getting business is when I agreed to do some IT work for
a couple real estate offices about once a week. The offices agreed to let me
offer my web development services to the agents when I was there.

I got a lot of new clients, and those agents knew people in all types of
businesses and started referring me to others, and from there, it's been non-
stop word of mouth.

I also hooked up with a couple print-advertising businesses locally that
needed to refer off their web work.

I stopped doing IT work after the first year.

I advertised once in the Yellow pages in 2004. Got 1 client out of it, and it
was NOT a good situation. I will only work by word of mouth anymore because
it's too stressful otherwise.

Not to mention, selling myself is MUCH easier when the client is referred by a
good friend of their's who has already told them that I am THE person to work
with. That way, when they call or email me, they are ready to get to work, and
I don't have to wine and dine - which I suck at so much it's embarrassing.

I'm not offering advice here, just sharing my story because we all get the
ball rolling differently, and hopefully reading about all our experiences
helps you think outside the box to find your way into a long-lasting
freelancing business.

------
cweagans
I've said it on many other similar threads: Avoid freelancer.com, odesk.com,
elance.com, etc. like the plague. You _will not_ make the kind of money you
need to sustain a successful freelance consultancy on any of those platforms.

I suggest the following (roughly in order of precedence): * Local networking
groups for new businesses (new businesses need new websites. Easy sell.) *
Give talks at local tech meetups (and in the about me section of the talk,
mention that you're a freelance web developer. Make sure to follow with a
really amazing presentation, and you'll probably get a couple leads after your
talk) * Have an online portfolio where you list your past work with as many
details about the work as possible (don't break your NDAs or anything, of
course). * Join gun.io and look for work there. It looks very similar to
freelancer.com and similar, but the clients on Gun know that they have to pay
for quality work, and in my experience, they're willing to do so. * Contribute
to an open source project related to the kind of freelancing that you want to
do. For instance, I'm a PHP developer and I do a ton of work with Drupal. I've
gotten almost every job through the Drupal community.

The contribution to open source bullet point is last, despite it being the
most successful for me, because it's not always possible to give an open
source project the level of involvement that is needed. It's also not as much
of a sure-fire thing, whereas the other ones are.

------
breck
Team up with an agency or group of other freelancers. Then you can specialize
and do what you do best(coding or design, for example). That way a higher
percentage of your hours will be billed, you'll have less stress, work will be
better, client will be happier and pay more, and you'll never leave a client
on a limb if something comes up because there will be a team to pick up the
slack. Source: did freelancing part time for 5 years and worked with 2
agencies for 2 yrs. latter was 10x better

~~~
cwilson
This.

Especially if said agency can feed you work so you don't have to do any of the
hustling/selling. It's a huge peace of mind and you get to stay 95% billable.

------
rmcastil
Lean how to sell. When I was in college I got frustrated at not having
software dev opportunities and only opportunities working at the mall (I went
to college right after the dot com bubble). This curse ended up becoming a
blessing because I learned how to empathize with what people wanted and what
they were trying to accomplish.

A lot of freelancing is just being able to sell yourself. When you find a lead
you have to convince them (aka sell to them) that you won't run away with
their money and are trustworthy enough to finish what they asked. Each
week/day/month you have to do a smaller version of this sale to convince them
to continue to stick with you and pay you. Even at the end of the project you
have to convince them (aka sell to them) that they should provide positive
reviews for you.

Aside from selling you've got to be sure you deliver on time and perform the
work asked. You'd be surprised how much of freelancing is more about soft
skills (listening, empathy, communicating, saying no, etc) than technical
skills.

If have any more questions don't hesitate to reach out to me at ryan at
challengeacceptedhq.com

I write a newsletter on freelancing but have taken a couple months break to
wrap up my book: The 7 Recurring Revenue Recipes for Freelancers.

~~~
SerialMiller
I second this. Well, the part about the soft skills. Of course you need to be
a good web developer, but typically you won't get judged by your uber
development skills. (Depends on your client though.)

Clients usually come to you (or you go to them, but preferably the first)
because they are not knowledgable in the part where you specialize in. But in
order to prove (show value) that you are a good web developer, you actually
have to be a good salesman.

You can start dropping HTML, CSS, Frameworks, Libraries, Angular, React, Ruby,
Python, Symfony, Django, Hibernate or Spring on them, it does not tell them a
thing.

And once you got the gig, depending on the client, you will have to reassure
them on a daily/weekly/monthly basis everything is on track so they keep
believing in you.

Furthermore, in order to get some quality leads, you will have to get your
name out there. I started at an early age as well, doing websites for family
members and small companies in my community for a bargain. Doing so I got some
exposure, got more requests and slowly raised my prices.

~~~
NicoJuicy
This is how i'm doing it and i see it's slowly working out ( creating websites
and etc..). Still not expensive, so you can contact me for the next 3 months
or so if you need anything ;) - some waiting time depending on your needs /
how busy it is for me though.

Stay away from "doing something for big companies"... I have created a
HackerNews clone without any success and a time tracking app in AngularJS for
2 big companies... They let me down bigtime and lost a lot of time ( = money)
because of that -> they won't help in publicity.

Also created www.ledenboek.be - a member management application, before i
found out that sporting clubs don't have money in Belgium... ( it does work
great though).

I'd do it all again any time (although you should have some patience though...
Not all your friends/acquintances want a website / app right now... ). I'm
releasing a website tomorrow, working on one right now and got a new request
for a website today. So that's 3 websites in 1.5 weeks without any publicity.
Be fair to everyone, be honest also! ( don't try to cover things up, if
something is hard / difficult to do. Give them an alternative). They
understand if you do something a different way, if it saves a lot of time.
When you notice someone isn't "communicating", but just rammeling what they
want without any discussion. Stay away from those clients, they think
everything is easy peasy.

When someone says they want this or that. Ask them why they want it... Some
people don't know IT and give a "bad solution". If you create it, they won't
be happy, because they don't realize their solution is bad! Talk to the client
and discuss.

PS. And i still haven't asked my brother ( who totally needs a website,
because his current one is lame for a clothing store :P ). I'm delivering a
website for a collegue of him tomorrow (as mentioned). So he'll hear about it
on his own work ( his girlfriend has the clothing store)..

Know how the world works, people talk - i recreated a website for a "student
club" in the neighboorhood for a bargain. They'll know me in the future ;)

If you're good / honest / fair, people will come to you. Raise your prices
when you have too much work.

Don't be afraid to share knowledge / they'll remember you as the guy who can
help them.

If you know someone who has a problem, if one of you're clients has the
solution. Redirect them (or introduce them), say something particular so your
old client will know you referred him ( like one of my clients is creating an
airplane, i always mention that... It is an extreme example though :P - if you
don't believe me :
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su1RCCxCMEs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su1RCCxCMEs)
, that's the guy)

I wouldn't do odesk / elance / whatever... You have less competition in your
neigboorhood and you won't have to drop your prices under the hourly wage.
Talk about what you do, there are always opportunities if you LIKE what you
do.

And at last, LIKE what you do. If you wouldn't do it for more then a year,
then think about something else.

------
rabbyte
Pick up marketing and business skills in addition to web development skills,
intern for an agency to learn how to hustle and network, intern for a product
company to learn how to produce iteratively, and learn how to teach what you
know even if you think everyone already knows.

Don't be afraid to specialize, over the years you'll have specialized in a
number of areas as your interests and passions drift. Specializing can tell
you what you do better than others.

Specializing can mean focusing on a framework but it can also mean focusing on
a market. Don't always think in terms of code. For example, if you decided to
focus on church sites you would be able to advertise by word of mouth (church
leaders talk to other church leaders) and you would learn the needs of that
industry making it easier to anticipate the needs of others in that market.
Fish around, pick a few things to focus on that inspires you, and focus on
that. Refine your strategy as you go.

~~~
bendingb
Second the interning for an agency part. I did research work for one and
learned so much in terms of business development just by understanding their
work flow, how they pitch to businesses and how they find new clients.

As an aside, see if local agencies around your area are hiring freelancers.
Mine did and though they didn't get any benefits, pay was regular and
substantial (our freelancers probably came in about three or four days a week
depending on the project load).

------
avargas
I don't think any of my clients know my age, nor they care. My best clients
are those that I haven't met in person, and simply happened by random chance.
They like my work and like that I'm good at it, they don't ask many personal
questions and I'm ok with it. Now, if you do "consulting" and you are hired to
come into a team and fix stuff, that might be a different story (will a 40yo
dev take advice from someone half their age? I might find it a bit hard in
that scenario and age might come into play).

Edit: Getting clients is hard, but I've had luck with HN's monthly "Who's
hiring" and people seeking freelancer)

------
neosavvy
Hey there, I have been at this consulting gig for a long time now. I have to
say managing client expectations and finding good customers is a full time
job.

Keeping your small team of awesome colleagues happy is equally as hard.

I think you should use young age and low cost (hopefully) to build out some
awesome products to showcase your skills. Build a portfolio, become a pro at
some technology stack and write a blog about it.

Once you have a following of people on your portfolio and blog, you'll have
more work than you can do and you'll be turning down the lame stuff.

If you want to talk to me, look us up at www.neosavvy.com

------
Smokey28
There is a lot of good information here. The only thing I'll add, which is
present in bits and pieces is - hustle. Hustle your behind off. I have a
friend rightly stated the difference between a freelancer and a full time
employee is how you react when work is slow. Full-timers enjoy is, freelancers
are (and should be) scared of it. Your next job is your next paycheck and its
an attitude that is critically important to embrace, especially once you get a
little cushion in the bank. No job should be beneath you (provided you will
get compensated appropriately) you'll learn from everything you do so just
keep on looking for that next thing and taking it. Along the way you'll make
the connections, meet the people that will lead you to more, and ultimately
better, freelance jobs. Once you have this network people will be coming to
you with work and not the other way around (that's the pot of gold at the end
of the proverbial rainbow.)

------
zerobrainwash
I personally started low, competing on price and earning 2 dollars an hour, if
that, after all fees and all hours that came into building something. This is
because at a time I also had to learn a lot. However, I still did my best with
each project, communicated nicely and now am working with one client only who
supplies me with constant stream of work at hourly rate that none of these job
sites ever offer.

The lesson is, do good job, be nice and eventually you will find your way out.
As everywhere in life, best opportunities are usually not readily accessible.

Also, I don't hide my age or that I'm a student. I have a proven track record
and that's all that matters.

~~~
neosavvy
@Zerobrainwash - agreed a proven track record and real results will win every
time.

------
r-cid
Get a job at a successful development company. Learn all you can about the
business from inside of a place that has it down.

I was freelancing as a teenager up until my early 20s, and I thought I was
doing alright. Then I took a job at a place and learned a LOT. How to set more
accurate deadlines, client interaction, how to properly hand off a project,
how other successful developers are building software... a LOT.

I left that job after a year and started freelancing again but at a whole new
level. I had made a ton connections at work for one, so finding a freelance
project became a lot easier from that alone.

------
martinbc
Personally I have had significantly better results with oDesk.com instead of
freelancer.com. I don't know exactly what it is, but it feels like they have
better values, and thus better clients.

A key point, that was a breakthrough in my career, was when I launched my new
cool and modern website explaining services and portfolio. Then I started to
receive random clients interested in my values.

What I am sure is that you need to build a portfolio. If you don't like
freelancer.com for that, try with little personal side projects, open source
projects, or doing work for friends for free/low prices.

------
gotwilly
To echo what others have said, and what worked for me: work at a small agency
for a few years. Learn how to write good contracts, handle invoicing, and
communicate with clients. Then take a few contracts on the side so you can
figure out a rate that works for you, and so you can work on those skills in
an environment where you aren't relying on the income. You'll know when the
time is right to switch to full time freelancing.

Once you have proven yourself, you won't have to compete on price. Good
clients will come to you.

~~~
civilian
I worked at a small agency for a year and a half and was very isolated from
contract writing, invoicing and client communication. I would have gotten more
if I stayed, but I think that often managers think their job is to isolate
you, the workhorse, from the client craziness so that you stay focused and
productive. So your YMMV with this strategy.

------
Mandatum
Meetups, conferences, industry events - go to anything and everything where
you're likely to either meet potential peers, or potential employers. I've
landed every job I've had doing either this, or through word-of-mouth of my
work.

Also, sink some time into SaaS business software, or developer tools. Both
lead to meeting aforementioned peers and employers.

------
ArtDev
Being young means you can move somewhere temporarily. Attract recruiters on
LinkedIn, be flexible and go freelance when you are ready.

Get a permatemp position at a megacorp and leave before your skills go to
mush. 6-12 months is all it takes

------
lucasprado
U need choose JUST ONE especiality like "content Writer" or Copywriter per
example, and study every day about that, Find the best guys in the industry
about your niche, AND PIGGYBACK Them!!! :)

------
ulisesrmzroche
In short, marketing. It's a trust thing, so it's easier to start local, in
person - when remote, they're usually looking for people with a track record.

------
j45
I started when I was 17 or 18, full time, self employed for the past 18 years.
I decided my 20's gaining 20 years of business/consulting experience in 10
years of effort to kick ass in my 30, 40's and 50's, when many have to give up
and walk away.

First, don't be above learning or above solving problems that take a small
amount of time that save someone a lot of time. I am never above fixing
someone's spreadsheet or access. In fact, both of these things start
conversations of trying to solve problems with software that ends up in.. you
guessed it, building software.

Single most important habit: Solving problems single handedly leads to getting
long term relationships because you are more of a problem solver than just a
freelancer with one or two tasks. Being known as someone who can learn and
solve problems quickly and well earns you the trust and being the first call
for people who value it.

About skills: If you look back a year, your skills were probably not as good
as this year. Remember it will look the same in a year looking back to today.
In a way, you do the worst work of your life each day, and that regular, and
constant improvement is the only true pursuit.

The languages, frameworks, and technologies will come and go.

Value: Know what value you are adding. Truly. Not the sense of being special
from growing up. Value in my books is saving or making someone money that is
measurable in a way that I can help deliver. Freelancing more than startups is
about the exchange of money.

Customers/Pricing: If you ask your customers "If I can save or make you
$2000/month, would you pay me $1000?". Those who say yes to this without a
single idea of what to do are often value focused. A lot of places can't
afford a full time person, but many, can afford a $500-1000/month relationship
with a freelancer for ongoing work. As long as you can identify, compile and
line up similar work, you will be able to deliver. The consultant who helped
me get my start me told me when I was starting out, find 10 customers to pay
you $1000 a month.. and you have a business that isn't volatile.

Learning: In the beginning there will be putting in a lot of time learning how
to measure and deliver value. This will take up more of your time than just
doing the work or learning some tech (which will be ongoing). I'd put about
booking your available time to be about 50% in the beginning while you get the
rest of your process flowing. In your case, while being a student, I did items
that got me time and didn't interfere too much with my studies and left me a
lot of time to play and learn.

PG has a great essay for students and startups that applies to freelancing --
just solve problems people need solved and you'll find the money making kind
of businesses very quickly compared to others your age.

Just remember you're not alone, or the first to do this and you can get ahead
much quicker if you stay open to not wanting to think your situation is
special and you have to figure out everything on your own. I did that a bit
too much and it was not as necessary.

------
gcz92
Post everywhere! Let everyone know you are trying to freelance.

Go to meetups and meet other freelancers.

The larger your network, the better you will do.

------
confiscate
why do you want to be a freelancer? Especially when you're a young dev with
lots of energy and passion.

~~~
j45
Freelancing teaches business skills that transfer into building a business,
which is what every startup wants to grow up and become. Learning to create
value that people want and will pay for, is also a very transferable skill.

~~~
confiscate
i don't see the connection. if freelancing is such a transferable skill, then
you'd see a lot of successful startup ceos with freelancing backgrounds

