
Business networking for nerds (2017) - Olshansky
http://benjaminreinhardt.com/networking-for-nerds/
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jnbiche
I've recently returned to professional programming after working in another
profession for 10 years. My former profession (let's call it "medical
transcription" for the sake of my anonymity) is a dying profession, and is
being replaced by a combination of technology and global outsourcing.

Now, with relatively few exceptions, the only people who can actually make a
good living at medical transcription are the master networkers and
salespeople. And even though they present themselves as being "successful" at
making a good living at medical transcription, what they really are making
money doing is selling courses and books to people who want to get into the
(dying) profession. Of course, they never mention to those people that it's
increasingly difficult to make a decent living at medical transcription.

This isn't the first time I've watched social butterfly networkers and
salespeople take advantage of people and engage in ethically dubious conduct,
so I have a bad taste in my mouth regarding networking. I'm also an introvert,
so I'm naturally very bad at networking.

That said, I also realize that I could be doing much better financially and
professionally if I had a strong network of friends and colleagues,
particularly as I'm starting at a new profession in my 40s.

It's frustrating.

EDIT: Changed a few sentences to make it clearer that the dying profession I'm
referring to isn't programming.

~~~
pm90
I have not had the same experience as you have. Maybe it depends on the city?
In the Bay Area hardcore engineering is still in enormous demand. I had
expected automation and the cloud to reduce the demand for engineers, but it’s
actually increased the demand for engineers familiar with cloud technologies.

~~~
jnbiche
I was unclear. The profession I'm talking about is not related to engineering.
However, I don't want to be more specific because the profession in question
is fairly unusual and I don't wish to identify myself.

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incompatible
Think of how much society is set back because people who have no interest or
ability with "networking" aren't given the opportunities that they should have
had. Instead, we end up with the most socially aggressive / self promoting
running practically everything (badly).

~~~
chrisseaton
If you call it 'networking' it sounds bad.

If you call it 'getting out there and speaking to people, listening to what
their problems, hopes, opinions are, and sharing the same yourself and making
a connection to see if you can mutually help each other' then it suddenly
sounds like a better thing, doesn't it?

~~~
fenwick67
Networking isn't talking to people about important things. It's talking to
people with the specific goal of moving your career forward. That's what makes
chronic networkers insufferable, and those people give networking a bad rap.

~~~
eropple
I network _all the damn time_. I talk to people. I get lunch with new people
who I don't know (there's a standing invite in my HN profile for a reason). I
don't have some Specific Goal of Moving My Career Forward. I like people, I
like meeting people, I like learning about them, and in the future maybe I'll
do them a solid or they'll do me one.

It pays off, though. And it's fun.

But I have never started a conversation (at least, not with somebody I didn't
already know well, like my boss) with the Specific Goal of Moving My Career
Forward.

If that's what you think networking is, you're missing out.

~~~
tomjen3
Small note on that one: you probably want to include an e-mail in your about
field.

I have and don't receive much spam.

~~~
eropple
No? Good to know. I'll do that. Thanks.

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PakG1
Maybe I've been going to the wrong events, but I've never gone to a networking
event where I made a contact with whom I ever had contact for a third time.
Extremely rarely would I have contact for a second time. Well... no, sometimes
I'd see them at additional networking events.

I've stopped going to networking events to network. Usually, I won't go if the
sole focus is networking. If there's another purpose that's the primary
purpose, I might go, depending on what that is.

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barcadad
Edison, EINSTEIN, and Musk?? You think that "general relativity project" would
never have gotten off the ground without some solid networking skills by Al?
Or developing quantum theory from a Swiss patent office? Maybe go with Edison
Jobs and Musk instead.

~~~
nicklovescode
Actually Einstein was great at reaching out to others in the field and
discussing ideas with them. He also voraciously applied to various programs to
find great places to work.

He’s no Edison in terms of networking, but it is interesting that even a
cononical super-nerd creating theories in their basement (or patent-office)
still gets value out of it.

~~~
fsloth
This. The entire progress of science happened because illuminaries and savants
started sharing their discoveries and discussing them in groups. There was an
enormous amount of individual work involved as well, of course, which was the
main element, but without the networking part to vet and discuss the result
science would really not have happened.

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ai_ia
Misread as 'Networking for Hackers' and thought finally going to learn more
about networking.

~~~
desertrider12
Me too. I know I'm a nerd now...

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mstaoru
I'm one of those people who hug their glass of water, finds a cozy (i.e.
devoid of people) corner, and pretends something is very important in their
phone. The few contacts I had from those events were never helpful, and I'm
not a kind of person to keep an Excel and reach out to people on schedule
pretending I care. (I understand there are people who do care, I'm just not
this type.)

I found the best way for me to meet new people is... smoking a pipe. It's a
greatly enjoyable hobby by itself, and it always draws people at least to
comment on the smell or ask me something like "hey, where do you get this
stuff?" (I'm in China and naked tobacco is illegal here... go figure). Once
the ice is broken, I feel much better about having a conversation. It also
helps that most people who are interested in the pipe are somewhat relatable.

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dorchadas
I've found the biggest issue for me to be finding places _to_ network. I'm
currently an educator (want to shift careers) and don't live in a city, which
means my options are limited. I love going out and meeting new people and
learning about them, though, so I wish I could find a place to do this.

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alexashka
This was very reasonable and well written.

'Keep it short and sweet' or 'minimize friction' if I were to summarize it.

I don't know that there are excellent ideas with solid execution that go to
the graveyard, because nerds just couldn't network their way to the top
however.

There has never been a better time for intelligent, hard working people to see
their ideas come to fruition. There is all sorts of infrastructure in place to
help you - schools, loans, accelerator programs like Y Combinator, the
internet!

While I don't want to minimize the value of having social skills for your
relationships with your loved ones if nothing else - it is important to know
who are and bet on your strengths, there's plenty of infrastructure to fill in
the gaps.

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projektir
I'm not sure how I feel about networking but I really like the part about
meeting arrangement (Pre-Meeting Motions). It's amazing how drawn-out meeting
scheduling can get if you are not proactively concrete about it. I don't
usually do calendar invites, though, and that is actually a good idea. I had
it happen when we agreed on a date and time, but then they thought it was a
different day of the week for some reason.

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BeetleB
Although I know many people hate the book, but Keith Ferrazzi's "Never Eat
Alone" is well worth reading - both for the practical tips, but also for the
_attitude_ one should adopt while networking (the more you care about others,
the more they are likely to help you).

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etical
Are there any other sites/blogs that talk about professional communication
like this? I found this very clear and helpful, while a lot of other sites
I’ve read are either overly generic or focus on what not to do.

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aryehof
When meeting someone at at an event or conference, what is the best way to
exchange details? Does one need a business card, or do we just give a
Twitter/Facebook id, or a email address or phone number etc?

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mathattack
The article seems to miss the key way to succeed at networking: help as many
people as you can before asking for help.

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purplezooey
I liked the "projection" thing. Seems very true and effective.

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jzwinck
"Do I need to bring a table or just my computer?"

She stared. "What?"

"I have a 21 inch monitor and I can bring a folding table," I said.

Still clearly confused, she asked, "Why would you bring a computer?"

Oh, that kind of networking party. "Never mind."

\- a true story from university

~~~
marnett
This hurts how relatable this is.

~~~
rudolph9
Yeah I was really hoping computer networking when I opened this and was sorely
disappointed.

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jimnotgym
Am I the only person who clicked the link hoping to read about the OSI 7 layer
model?

~~~
icpmacdo
This is the common sentiment in this thread lol, is there a canonical
reference for the other type of Networking(osi) for Nerds HN?

~~~
jimnotgym
The Wikipedia articles are very good in terms of detail, but I didn't find
them accessible. I thought about writing some more accessible ones for non-
tech people after a request from a colleague for something even a manager
could understand!

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wiradikusuma
OOT but funny:

During uni time, a friend invited me and my other friend to a "networking
event". Being computer science students, the two of us thought it's "computer
networking". Heck, we just had Network 101 class the day before.

We asked the inviter, and he did confirm it (but smiled). When we reached
there, I didn't see any computer stuff, but I saw grandparents, uncles and
aunties (basically, people I wouldn't relate with computer). I thought, "Wow,
this organizer really good at convincing computer illiterate people to learn
about computer networks."

The first speaker showed up, enthusiastically greeting us out loud, "Good
morning everyone!" (it was noon) and started talking about fulfilling your
dreams and Ferraris.

My friend tricked us to a MLM event (we knew what MLM was, and not with a good
reputation).

Cut story short, the inviter is no longer my friend.

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paulgrant999
I can attest to to his point about having a "story"; I have many skillsets
(across several fields) and I went in to pitch for a position I could do in my
sleep, and did not get the job. The last comment made by the owner of the
company was "what job would we put you in?" and I replied, "it doesn't matter
I can do every job in your organization." (having done every job prior in a
similar organization, and demonstrated as such!).

They literally didn't hire me, because they couldn't figure out where I fit in
their organization. Never mind the qualifications; never mind the ability, or
the direct experience. They simply boggled, at where they could put me.

And its been repeated over and over. They aren't hiring people, they are
hiring cogs. People like me, break their tiny worldviews, and they simply
can't handle it. Its fucking retarded.

I had one guy I emailed, reply back "Sorry we're picking someone more
qualified; 20 minutes into the work day", to which I replied "be fucking
serious. I used to do this in the first 10 minutes of my day. whats the real
reason?" He replied back "we don't think we could keep you." i.e. cog for 20
years needed.

When I started my career, I got fired from three temp jobs, for suggesting
ways I could automate their entire process, and instead of it taking months, I
could do it in under a week.

The whole employment racket, is bloody retarded.

~~~
cmehdy
Not every place seeks the jack-of-all-trades types of people. It isn't
necessarily because of any dehumanizing train of thought, but more likely
because of a more pragmatic one: they might not have the company structure to
support people with those profiles and give them room to grow, to contribute
in ways that are both nourishing for the company's and the employee's goals.

I find myself often drained by the type of situation you mention encountering
(although I seem tot lack the self-confidence you are pushing there), but a
recent experience has allowed me to see that some structures might
theoretically want my profile but practically not be ready to embrace it. In a
way, the interviews you encountered might be at places that are more realistic
with their own skills and needs.

I do wish you the best in trying to find the right fit.

~~~
arandr0x
What kind of job would you and the parent poster recommend jack-of-all-trades
people who just want to get things done apply to? Sales in some environments
is ideal for this but for introverts?

~~~
cmehdy
I've found that the umbrella term "DevOps" carries a lot more than what most
people might realize, creating an interesting space to solve problems that are
about logistics, technicalities, human behaviour, communication, planning and
execution of projects, etc.

YMMV, but I find that any "good" engineer can learn to excel where the need
is, provided the structure is there to support and encourage such behaviour
(which is easier said than done, and most often what you will get to judge
when interviewing).

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ptr_void
Everything about networking is shady and discriminatory. Networking should be
made illegal.

~~~
fibers
you will not pry my cisco switches from my cold dead hands

~~~
whorleater
Juniper switches are the only ones for me

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ryanmarsh
Bad advice. Networking is a high cost low value activity. It’s a pre-internet
strategy for building trust in the absence of information about competency.
Today anyone can find anyone they’re looking for. Today on the internet there
are many businesses and people who make money by amplifying others with new or
novel things, or some value.

Just build things you care about and share your work online. Give it to the
amplifiers and let them amplify. Good will come. In the internet age
“networking” is for losers.

~~~
falcor84
>Give it to the amplifiers ...

How are you supposed to meet these amplifiers then and get them to care about
your work?

~~~
ryanmarsh
Email them. If it’s interesting they’ll amplify it. These people make their
living be being “in the know” on all the great new stuff.

