

Richard Feynman: Magnets and Why Questions [video] - husein10
http://hus.posterous.com/richard-feynman-magnets-and-why-questions

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bugsy
I've seen this interview with Feynman before, it is very good. I've also seen
the Insane Clown Posse video that mentions that they don't know how magnets
work, and observed the backlash against them, that their video celebrates
ignorance and so forth. My take is that those criticizing ICP are the ignorant
anti-science ones.

I don't know how many physics or calculus classes ICP has taken, but let's
assume the lyricist has a PhD in Physics. It's not an unreasonable assumption,
to presume knowledge rather than ignorance.

I understand Maxwell's equations. I know what a dipole is and what flux is.
Just this modest knowledge by itself is well beyond the educational attainment
level of most ICP critics. This becomes rapidly clear when one attempts to
discuss physics with them. That is not surprising, but it is surprising how
many will criticize another for being ignorant when it is themselves who are
ignorant. Maxwell's equations describe some relationships, but they do not
tell us what magnetic fields really are. What is a magnetic field? No one
really knows. We can describe with these equations what effects they produce
and how magnetic and electric forces are interlinked. But what is really
causing this stuff? What is it made of?

As Feynman says in the video, in iron you can line up the atoms so electrons
spin in the same direction and thus so many induced small magnetic forces are
aligned in one direction and thus amplified to the point they are noticeable,
but what are these magnetic fields made of?

Nothing apparently, since they can propagate through a vacuum. But matter
itself is made of bundles of these same e-m fields. In wave packets, they
pretend to be something we like to call particles, which can travel through a
vacuum as well but which don't really exist since they are made of waves which
are nothing but vibrations. In the end there is nothing traveling through
nothingness and all is nothing and no one knows anything. To those who
understand physics, ICP comes across as pretty wise and observant. As Feynman
says, "It is a very good question."

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jambo
That lyric, in isolation, isn't anti-intellectual. But it's followed by "and I
don't wanna talk to a scientist, y'all motherfuckers lyin' and givin' me
shit".

~~~
clownvid
Just wanted to clarify a harmless misquote - the corrected is: "and I don't
wanna talk to a scientist, y'all motherfuckers lyin', and gettin' me pissed"

The correction draws you into the mindset of a killa fuckin' clown writing
lyrics in criticism of an alleged killa fuckin' scientist abusing his/her
socially granted authority.

Sure, Scientists can "give him shit", that's fine as it is, but in my opinion,
in the corrected form, Shaggy expresses a bit of anger and resentment:
"gettin' me pissed".

The corrected, to me, conveys an active and growing defiance. whereas the
misquote suggests a passive complacency.

Rather than accepting allegedly fraudulent claims (in this case, the infamous
inner workings of magnets), I believe he is offering an allusion of menace to
the scientific community members that would mindfully work to subdue his
demonstrated and consciously limited, yet poignant, understanding of the
nature of reality.

Although some might consider that in poor taste and perhaps ignorant, I
believe he is expressing the autonomous freedom of thought awarded to us all
by virtue of birth.

Science is a bliss I truly appreciate and I long for keen minds to show me new
and exciting discoveries where I can offer in kind in my own studies.

Indeed an interesting conversation. Hope more of y'all chime in on this.

Bustin' out semantics in this bitch.

~~~
psyklic
Exactly. The singers are looking out at the world. They don't know how it
works, but it's awesome. To them, reducing the mystery through science makes
it less miraculous. But, they are mistaken.

As Feynman said, "It does not do harm to the mystery to know a little more
about it. For far more marvelous is the truth than any artists of the past
imagined it."

~~~
clownvid
I agree and refer to my statement of Shaggy's, in my opinion and observation,
"demonstrated and consciously limited, yet poignant, understanding of the
nature of reality."

I refer to an interview the gave thus:
[http://www.clownvid.com/etc-2010/2011/3/15/insane-clown-
poss...](http://www.clownvid.com/etc-2010/2011/3/15/insane-clown-posse-on-
etc.html) (shameless plug)

In that interview, Violent J (one half of the Insane Clown Posse) verbally
pointed out my statement when he is offered a book that, in the interviewer's
mind, would answer the question: "Fuckin' magnets, how do they work!?"

They are aware of the scientific observations, and presumably agree to the
validity, yet they, for reason of their own merit, justly decide not to
indulge.

I would make a selfish request, not to take away from their proven and
successful prowess, that they educate themself, if for anything, to spite the
haternation. I am in Love with Insane Clown Posse, and would not prove it
otherwise.

Holla!

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davej
This is the mind of a brilliant educator at work. It would have been very easy
for Feynman to give a scientifically literate answer but he realizes that
there is no way to give an accessible explanation that doesn't fluff the
details.

The following 'meta-answer' that Feynman provides is fascinating.

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Cococabasa
Seems like the answers to the question "Why?" are laid out like a fractal. It
just keeps going...

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hasenj
While I agree with what he said, and find it fascinating, I can't help but
feel that he still didn't answer the question.

"Why do magnets attract iron only" and "why can't objects intersect" are very
interesting questions and I think about them sometimes. He kinda hinted that
the explanation for both of them is related to the same basic principle, and
that hint is very insightful to me, but I still wish that he went to a bit of
depth and explained it a bit further.

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jamiecobbett
This video comes from a BBC series which can be watched here (from the UK at
least): <http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/feynman/>

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abhayv
It is a beautiful answer by Feynman

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hackermom
An interesting insight not so much in the workings of magnetics, but more so
in Feynman's labyrinthine mind. This video should be tagged "psychology" :)

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rubashov
I don't see why the initial rejection of the question was necessary, or that
he really has a much a point to make about "why" being an invalid question.
All he had to do was begin explaining magnetic forces and say that if you
don't get it you need more background.

~~~
Dn_Ab
It was not so much a rejection but a point he was making. He was not saying
that why is invalid. rather, that without a certain context why is not
meaningfully answerable for any thing that is outside your domain of regular
experience (remember alien example). He is trying to show how to think and
consider, that there is an ever escalating level of depth that must be
considered that we take for granted and that learning how to ask the right
question and introspect is key. Asking the right question is harder than
getting the right answer. For a similar example, it is like asking how to use
an array for something when what you really want is a hashtable or why this
linear approximation is not working for the non linear data. You cannot answer
the person without first explaining why what they are asking is not meaningful
and cannot be answered until they first understand concept X.

The answer he gave was beyond amazing, there is an immense amount of knowledge
there and I learned more from it than just physics. Just like that he gave a
whirlwind tour that covered hundreds of years of physics, covering concepts
from gravitation and Newton's Law to quantum field theory and does drop hints
as to why magnets repel in multiple ways (electromagnetic forces everywhere -
normal force and why you don't fall through floor are related - but effect
stronger in magnetized iron since electrons aligned to spin in same
direction).

And that is what separates someone like Feynman from most scientist. He is
aware. He doesn't just regurgitate some encyclopaedic definition that is true
but ultimately unenlightening, nor does he give a broken analogy when a good
one cannot be given. Instead he leaves you with just the right questions in
mind. He weaves an interesting story with a background and motivation and ties
things up neatly in a way that you end up learning much more than what you
asked for and leave with a deeper insight about everything in general and
wanting more. Beyond physics even. I wish I could have met him but I was born
too late. Around someone like him being ignorant would be something to bask in
and enjoy.

~~~
mturmon
If you read his _Lectures in Physics_ you can enjoy at length that same first-
principles, hands-on, everything-is-open-for-explanation method. It's not good
as a first physics text, but really fun as a second one.

