
Apple Surveying MacBook Pro Users About Headphone Jack and Other Ports - antouank
http://www.macrumors.com/2016/09/14/apple-macbook-pro-survey/
======
nicolas_t
I use the optical digital out from the headphone port about 8 hours a day.
It's connected to my audio technical dac/headphone amp.

I'll only be interested in wireless headphones once they actually have decent
quality. And even then, I already have very good Beyerdynamic headphones (the
T90 and the DT880) and I don't see why I'd spend money to change them.

I'd be rather annoyed at not having hdmi or sd card mostly because carrying
dongles is a pain.

It's kind of sad but Apple products just do not excite me anymore. I remember
before I used to try and follow the keynote to see the new iphone or I looked
forward to seeing the first intel macbook when it was unveiled... Now, I look
at the iphone 7 and there's really nothing in it that makes me want to buy it.
There hasn't really been anything new with their laptop either (ok, maybe the
new small macbook is not bad it's a good travel notebook)...

~~~
sirn
Genuine question, is there any particular reason DAC is connected via optical
rather than USB? Or was it because AT's DAC do not have USB support?

I asked this question because I initially thought anyone with an high-end
headphones are least likely to be affected if Apple removed headphone port
from a Mac (because the included headphone port usually isn't powerful enough
to drive some of the high-end models anyway, and many would likely to replace
the DAC too, in addition to adding an Amp.)

~~~
UVB-76
Optical just _feels_ like a cleaner interface. USB requires drivers, and
introduces timing and electrical interference issues.

USB also feels like overkill for an audio interface. It allows transfer of
data in both directions, and introduces security risks if you don't fully
trust the DAC you are connecting to, or worse still if the DAC is connected to
a network/the Internet.

I'm not suggesting for a moment there is any audible difference between the
two, but optical audio has always struck me as a 'cleaner' way to output
digital audio.

I would be extremely annoyed if it were removed from the MacBook Pro.

~~~
mbell
> introduces timing

SPDIF also combines the clock and data in a single signal, it has more or less
the same issues with jitter that USB does. Not that it matters since I'm not
aware of a single proper study that indicates jitter is audible.

~~~
DigitalJack
I would be shocked if there wasn't a hardware fifo in that receiver path.

~~~
mbell
Depends on the device.

Often there is a receiver IC that will perform clock recovery and convert from
S/PDIF to an internal digital audio format, I2S most commonly, to send it to a
DAC IC. In this simple setup there generally is no more buffering than needed
for operation of the pieces.

In more complex situations, either where the S/PDIF signal is being re-clocked
or where the data on the S/PDIF line needs to be decoded, then they will be
buffering.

To clarify some terms:

Re-clocking - the system detects the clock rate of the signal but does not use
that clock as the reference, instead it will generate it's own clock at the
proper frequency. Some buffering is needed here to offset drift between the
clocks causing sample starvation.

Encoded data - S/PDIF (really AES3 for the most part) has a framed block
transmission format not entirely dissimilar to a TCP packet. There is meta-
data, frames, sub-frames, etc, it's not just 'pure audio'. Various formats can
be stuffed into these data frames, like compressed audio data (5.1 Dolby
Digital for example).

------
Roboprog
Dear Apple,

Here is _my_ list of things your laptop should have:

* A headphone jack that supports the built-in microphone (conferencing, anyone?)

* The magsafe power connector - my kids are rough on stuff, even my stuff.

* USB ports, perhaps at least one of each old and new plug. As many as you can fit on the sides, cuteness be damned.

* an ethernet plug.

* function keys on the keyboard. E.g. - I use F1 and F6 A LOT in Jetbrains IDEA.

Here are things I could live without:

* an SD card reader

* any particular video plug form, as long as I can hook a monitor to _something_ with an inexpensive adapter plug.

* CD/DVD drive - nice to have, but I understand about space and cost.

This is for work, not a fashion show. It's not supposed to be a tablet. I
already have an iPad mini, and want something more, a lot more, in my work
computer.

~~~
illumin8
Sorry to break this news to you: you are not Apple's target market.

I agree about your points, but ask your average consumer when the last time
they used a Cat5 Ethernet connection was and you'll probably get a blank
stare. Likewise, function keys. Anyone that's not a developer is likely to not
even care about them.

~~~
kaffeemitsahne
Doesn't everyone use F5 daily when browsing?

~~~
marssaxman
What does F5 do?

~~~
Roboprog
"Reload"/"Refresh" on Windows. As others noted, Command-R on OSX.

------
wodenokoto
I think getting rid of the magsafe connector is a much bigger deal.

I love my macbook charger, but it is expensive as hell to replace.

I really like the idea of a universal charger as well. So it seems weird that
they are on the front line of the usb-c open standard on laptops, but use an
incompatible plug on their phones.

Plug-wise it will make android a better match than iPhone.

~~~
gambiting
To me, using the same charger for your phone and a laptop is weird - after
all, your average phone charger will only deliver 10-18W of power, while a
macbook charger usually needs 45-65W. So if you use your phone charger on your
laptop, it will be too weak to charge it while it's being used(and will take
hours and hours to charge from 0% to full), and if you use your laptop charger
on the phone it's a massive overkill. My point is - it's all about what the
customers expect. If you tell them they can use the same chargers for both
phones and laptops, they won't be happy, because their laptops won't perform
as expected.

As an anecdote I can offer an example of the Asus Transformer T100, which my
mum has, and she constantly complains to me that it actually discharges while
she is using it. I go and check, and of course she is using a 1Amp micro usb
charger, instead of the 3Amp micro usb charger supplied in the box. Customers
can't really be expected to know about this stuff(I mean, they can, but a
certain group of them certainly won't).

~~~
dx034
Couldn't you build a charger with high capacity that detects the device and
delivers the appropriate output? I can imagine it's not that much more
expensive than a standard charger and would be a great selling point.

~~~
gambiting
That's not a problem - you can safely charge your phone even with a 100W
charger, your phone is smart enough not to draw more power than it needs.

The problem is, that a more powerful charger needs to be physically bigger.
65W Mac charger is definitely a lot bigger and heavier than a 5W iphone
charger. So you can't make iphone chargers which are still very small, yet can
charge MacBooks when needed.

~~~
roninb
I can charge my Chromebook Pixel 2 with my LG G5 charger. It will take forever
to charge fully and will drain faster than I'm using it, but it absolutely
works.

This was still infinitely more useful than my SO's Macbook/iPhone combo during
the hurricane that knocked out power to my city for about 5 days. (90% lost
power for some amount of time while around 20% still didn't have electricity 5
days later, my SO included. I didn't cover the recovery schedule after that.)
While I was able to charge my laptop completely on a mobile power bank they
was relegated to their phone until we were able to find a hotel with power
restored to charge it at. Again, it's not like people will just be able to
carry around one cable "to rule them all" but they will have a lot more
utility with just the one cable than they used to.

~~~
guitarbill
> It will take forever to charge fully and will drain faster than I'm using
> it, but it absolutely works.

Not sure if you can call this "working", which was gambiting's point.

~~~
roninb
Did you just stop reading the comment after that sentence?

I was able to fully charge my laptop from a power bank using a phone's USB
cable while everyone else was relegated to simply using their phones and
waiting for power restoration. What is not "working" about that?

~~~
gambiting
Well, while I absolutely agree that being able to charge your laptop from a
power bank is cool, I still think it's a usability problem - like in my
original example, where my mum just doesn't understand how a micro usb charger
can charge slower than another micro usb charger. Devices should be seamless,
and you shouldn't have to worry about it - if you can charge your laptop with
a charger, it should provide enough power to keep using it while it's charging
- yet most phone charger will not do that with laptops. Tech savvy people
won't have a problem with it, obviously, but a lot of consumers will.

~~~
roninb
I think you're understating how big of a difference there is between a laptop
charger and a phone charger. Of course two identical AC adapters for phones
are difficult to differentiate; the cables are the same gauge, the bricks are
about the same size, they both came with phones.

I'm not sure your mother would have as much difficulty differentiating
something the size of a laptop charger from something the size of a phone
charger... It's not like laptops are going to start shipping with phone-sized
chargers all of a sudden.

~~~
gambiting
Again, case in point, Asus Transformer T100 charger:
[http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/271922569141?lpid=122&chn=ps&...](http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/271922569141?lpid=122&chn=ps&googleloc=9046781&poi=&campaignid=620800750&device=c&adgroupid=27378723426&rlsatarget=pla-181480843746&adtype=pla&crdt=0)

It's marginally larger than a normal phone charger. Side by side, it's only
slightly bigger than Apple ipad charger.

~~~
roninb
Sorry, what do tablet chargers have to do with laptop chargers?

Like you said, "case in point", phone and laptop chargers aren't really going
to be getting confused. I think the point you made about your mother is very
valid, because a QuickCharge supported charger and a typical standard USB
charger will look almost identical, not just in connector shape, but also in
absolute size. I agree that adding tablet chargers to the mix confuses that
even more. I _don 't_ believe that is the case when it comes to laptop
chargers vs phone chargers. They are very different in size (both cable and
adapter size). They also ship with different products; it's easy to think
_phone charger, same shape, same size, they do the same thing_. I don't know
if that will hold true when the chargers are less similar.

I would imagine people will understand "small charger, long charge - big
charger, short charge", kinda like they do now, regardless of connector shape.
You're right in implying that there is a big difference between tech savvy
users and the typical consumer, so maybe I'm completely wrong.

------
kalleboo
I think it's clear that Apple really does not care one whit about
professionals anymore.

Macs and OS X were always great since they combined great style with great
function. Connecting 20 dongles is neither great style nor great function.

~~~
wobbleblob
If they didn't care, why would they bother with a survey? Asking 'do you use
this feature?' is almost the opposite of saying 'Lol, I'm removing this
feature, I don't care if you use it'

~~~
kalleboo
Who responds to surveys? People who aren't busy.

Most people who buy MacBook Pros already aren't Pros. That's fine but if you
then tailor the machine to people who aren't Pros ("most of our customers"),
what are the Pros going to buy?

The Mac Pro was aimed at actual Pros. You can see how well that went.

~~~
kps
The _previous_ slots-and-bays Mac Pro was aimed at pros, generally. The
current one is aimed at one specific niche. (I'm not actually sure what that
niche is, only that I'm not in it.)

~~~
yardie
I'm kind of convinced the nMP was aimed at medium to large scale graphics
video production houses. The kind of place where assets are kept on a SAN,
accessed over a 10Gbit Ethernet, and no local storage is used at all.

They basically walked away from the single-user/boutique studio who don't need
the complexity and structure of running a large datacenter. It was completely
mind-boggling choice.

------
BinaryIdiot
Honestly I would be completely fine with just about everyone doing away with
the 3.5mm jack but _only if_ there is a good plan to move onto something just
as universal like, say, USB-C _AND_ there are already compatible headphones
out there for it. Yes it will suck for many who have older headphones but if
it truly helps in the miniaturization effort of technology I would be willing
to bite the bullet if it's universal.

Wireless right now kinda sucks. I've gone through 5 different pairs of
wireless headphones ranging from cheap $30 Amazon ones to fairly expensive
$150 ones* and pretty much all of them have connectivity issues regardless of
the phone I use even when they're in my pocket. Plus battery life isn't very
good. So we need a good, wired solution here.

Now moving it to lightning? Absolutely no way.

* Surprisingly the cheaper the bluetooth headphones the better audio and connectivity I've had. Go figure. My latest $70 LG headphones are MILES above the $150 ones I bought and broke a few years ago (can't even remember the brand at this point).

~~~
adrianN
I think most technology is already small enough. I don't really care whether
my laptop is a centimeter thick or seven millimeters; phones getting thinner
doesn't really help me either. What's the point of making everything thinner?
Saving weight is useful, but you quickly hit diminishing returns.

~~~
BinaryIdiot
You're speaking of the comparisons of yesterday's computer with today's. These
are minimal changes that add up. If you looked at computers 8 years ago to
today the difference is absolutely astounding. But 1 year ago to today?
Underwhelming.

Making things smaller have a lot of benefits.

\- Axing analog components allow for smaller, digital components that can
contain more capabilities

\- Lighter weight

\- Typically better battery life / efficiency. You can fit more battery in it
and the signals have less to travel.

\- Research / betterment of humankind. The more we can shrink things the
better, easier and faster we'll be able to use the same type of technology in
smaller devices possibly even ones that embed into your body.

~~~
adrianN
You have a point, but when the way to make the devicer smaller is to just
leave out useful parts because they're too big, that seems like a step
backwards.

------
dperfect
Bluetooth audio is often criticized for inferior quality, but the truth is,
many of the people I talk to just have experience with cheap (or older)
Bluetooth audio devices - often with inferior hardware _and_ poor audio
codecs. I've owned some really bad Bluetooth audio devices in the past, so I
can understand the criticism.

Still, I believe Bluetooth audio has come a long way. I personally use a pair
of Sony Bluetooth headphones almost daily (with aptX on my MBP), and I've had
absolutely zero issues with pairing or sound quality for consuming content -
music, video, voice, etc. Granted, I don't use them for pro audio, but when I
do occasionally need the additional benefits (lossless quality, low latency)
for audio recording/mixing, I use what pretty much every other pro audio
person uses: an external DAC with wired studio monitor headphones or speakers.

The point is, I believe most people would be happy with decent Bluetooth
headphones. Those who wouldn't be happy with Bluetooth are likely to be using
external audio hardware already.

~~~
iLoch
Here's a concept: things that don't need to be charged. If Apple removes the
headphone jacks from their computers I won't be buying their computers
anymore.

~~~
Zigurd
I charge a phone and two tablets, one of them a Kindle Fire. And I charge a
watch. The nightstand full of charging things train has left the station for
the kinds of customers who will adopt AirPods.

------
phicoh
After not having a VGA connector, making MacBooks clumsy for presentations,
not having an ethernet connector, making it annoying for anything networking
related, killing headphone, SD card and USB-A will turn those laptops into
nothing more than iPads with keyboards.

~~~
melling
Why do we need to be stuck in the 1980's forever?

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VGA_connector](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VGA_connector)

We wouldn't even have USB-A without Apple. PC manufacturers stuck with PS/2
keyboard connectors for another decade after Apple switched.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS/2_port](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS/2_port)

According to most, the rate of technology is accelerating. Unfortunately, we
want to stick with the same ports forever.

Let's all move to USB-C, for example, and everyone else can buy an adapter.

[https://www.amazon.com/Aukey-Adapter-Reversible-Supported-
CB...](https://www.amazon.com/Aukey-Adapter-Reversible-Supported-
CB-A1/dp/B00W98IJ0O)

~~~
AnthonyMouse
> PC manufacturers stuck with PS/2 keyboard connectors for another decade
> after Apple switched.

PC manufacturers _still_ sell PCs with PS/2 keyboard connectors. Because once
you lay out a thousand bucks for a KVM switch, you're in no hurry to throw it
away. Because people still love those mechanical IBM keyboards. Because you
can't plug a thumb drive into the keyboard port of a machine at a secure site.
And PS/2 to USB converters are full of bugs.

Meanwhile PCs have had USB support since USB has been a standard. Apple
"dropped" PS/2 because they never had it -- Macs used ADB. Adopting USB (from
Intel et al) was a bid to stay relevant by becoming compatible with PC
peripherals.

Dropping ADB (and VGA and RJ45 and so on) are nothing but Apple saving a buck
at the expense of the people who still use those things. You can have the new
thing without destroying the old thing.

~~~
ubernostrum
_You can have the new thing without destroying the old thing._

OK. So every computer needs to have, at minimum, multiple USB ports, probably
at least one type C USB port, a PS/2 port (really at least two PS/2 ports), a
serial port, an ethernet jack, a CD-ROM drive, a floppy drive, a VGA port, a
DVI port, probably an optical audio port, an HDMI port, a pair of audio ports
for stereo out, an SD slot and a 3.5mm headphone/microphone jack.

After all, it's wrong to destroy the old things just because there are new
things. So I'm sure you'll get busy right now starting up a company to make
computers that come with all of these and they'll sell like hotcakes, right?

~~~
AnthonyMouse
There are a bunch of PC makers who already do. Take a look at the back of most
workstation-class PCs.

About the only thing you're going to have trouble finding is the floppy drive,
and that's because they're legitimately defunct. A PS/2 keyboard is just as
good as a USB one; a floppy disk on a new PC is a useless anachronism.

~~~
ubernostrum
No, _every_ computer. That includes the laptops.

Also, the floppy drive can't be left out. Remember: we never drop an old thing
just because there's a new thing!

------
zaroth
I _love_ the optical output embedded in the headphone jack. I think it's
awesome and extremely useful for playing movies on my older home theater which
doesn't have the HDMI switching capability to get DD 5.1 that way. And it's a
lot more reliable than trying to 'cast' the video, particularly when the codec
may be unsupported by the receiver as well.

~~~
mitchty
I gotta be honest, I had no idea there was an optical output in the MBP
headphone jack. Been using OS X since 10.3 with almost exclusively MBP's the
whole time. Shows how much I use audio stuff. >.<

------
acranox
Every day I put my MacBook Pro on my desk at work and the plug in, power, two
thunderbolt connections, hdmi, usb, and my headphones. Sometimes I use the SD
card reader. There isn't a free port on my computer. I would actually really
like an extra thunderbolt or USB port. So I'm hoping they don't reduce the
port count on these things any more.

~~~
2almalki
may i ask what you connect via thunderbolt? I connect the two thunderbolt to
two monitors. I might actually connect to three now i think about it cause i
still have an HDMI out that is not used

~~~
unprepare
I have one constantly connected to an ethernet adapter because my MBP's wifi
cuts out randomly throughout the day (which kills all my remote sessions of
course).

~~~
jbmorgado
Use mosh for the remote sessions: [https://mosh.org](https://mosh.org)

~~~
falcolas
This helps only with laggy connections with the occasional lost packet. Not
with hard network drops (not to mention, there is more than just the terminal
impacted by hard network drops).

~~~
jbmorgado
No, mosh doesn't work like that. You can turn off the network connection in
one of the nodes (both the server and the client) for hours and when they come
back you still have your session like it was before the connection dropped.

I do this everyday on the client side (taking my laptop to work, opening the
lid and having my session going on), and sometime on the server side as well.

~~~
falcolas
Only if keepalive is disabled; in which case regular SSH will work the same
way.

------
jefe_
You know your laptop is truly 'Pro' when there are so many ports, you have to
google some of them to figure out what they do (Thinkpad).

------
raverbashing
I don't want to get bothered with batteries or similar hassles when I'm using
my notebook (as a desktop)

Yes, please let me add another short-life battery powered gizmo to my workflow

I use the old trackpad (with AA batteries), I have no interest in some
rechargeable crap that will bother me as much as other (mandatory) battery
powered devices

~~~
SyneRyder
That's the case for me as well. I love the old wireless keyboard & trackpad
that take the AA batteries, because I can swap them over so quickly, no hours
of downtime due to recharging. Same with my Bose QC25 headphones, which last
for weeks on a single AAA battery - I just keep a couple of spare AAAs in my
backpack, and if I'm travelling it's easy to buy AAA batteries anywhere.

I do have a pair of Bluetooth headphones I use with my TV, but I never use
them with my MacBook Pro, I always use the QC25s (and the media control cable
would be awesome, if Apple hadn't hard-wired play/pause to only work with
iTunes).

------
kennell
I don't get it. They have the Macbook Air and the "Macbook" (12") that target
the casual-ish consumer-ish market for people that want a fancy, shiny
Facebook machine. So why do they have to dumb down the Macbook Pro. It is
used, as the name suggests, by professionals.

------
kirkdouglas
MBP is most widely used pro audio laptop. Some people I know do simple mixing
without plugging an external audio interface, just using built-in audio. It
seems that Apple does not care about those people anymore.

~~~
kennell
Mixing via a 3.5mm headphone jack is not "pro audio"

~~~
kranner
It's not a plain analog headphone socket; it has an optical line out as well.

[http://i.imgur.com/V9QbH7I.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/V9QbH7I.jpg)
[http://www.apple.com/shop/product/H7048ZM/A/belkin-6-digital...](http://www.apple.com/shop/product/H7048ZM/A/belkin-6-digital-
toslink-optical-audio-cable-with-line-out-adapter)

------
niels_olson
Dear Apple: I abandoned my unlimited-data-for-life AT&T plan and jumped on
Google Fi the last day they were offering phone discounts, just to avoid
buying an iPhone 7. Yes, I actually use my SD card slot and my headphone jack.
And my USB ports. The retina macbook is as close to perfection as I have ever
imagined a laptop could be. Please, stop.

~~~
joeevans1000
I can't concur more. They are taking this in an awful direction.

------
ccvannorman
"Dear Apple,

Please remove all USB ports, headphone jacks, and other extraneous ports. It's
more important to build for a functional ideal of simplistic beauty than for
any kind of real world usability.

That is what I really want as an Apple consumer."

/sarcasm

I wonder if there truly exist people like this who are ruining Apple products
for the rest of us.

------
thescribe
I wish there was a 'almost constantly' option, they by far my most common
peripheral.

------
joeevans1000
For developers, the MacBook Pro is becoming less and less useful as Apple
increasingly configures it for casual and business users. I've been hearing
increasing grumbling about all the adapters and dongles you have to buy and
carry. The prospect of no 1/8" jack is another step in this direction. I've
noticed devs moving increasingly toward the lenovo/linux combo, or equivalent,
as a result. I'm not sure if Apple realizes how important it is to their
business to have developers choosing their laptops, or the loss when the tide
starts pulling away. It's been a difficult line for Apple to walk... between
offering what developers want, and what consumers want, but you actually need
both for a full functioning ecosystem. They are now beginning to make it all a
consumer and business line, and I think they don't realize the importance of
the ecosystem. Very worrisome.

------
acqq
Scarier is

[http://www.macrumors.com/2016/05/31/macbook-pro-leaked-
photo...](http://www.macrumors.com/2016/05/31/macbook-pro-leaked-photos-oled-
touch-panel/)

"just 4 USB-C ports." That means not a single common USB stick can be inserted
in the new MBP without an additional dongle.

~~~
BinaryIdiot
While true USB-C is slowly becoming the standard connector so, eventually,
there will be plenty of USB-C sticks until you no longer see USB-A at all. The
dongle would be annoying but I would at least feel like it's moving in the
right, universal direction [in this case].

~~~
kbob
I am not looking forward to it. I just looked around my office, and there are
55 USB ports within arm's reach. (both host and target ports.) I will never
ever get around to replacing all those devices with USB-C, so I'll be carrying
USB-C dongles for a decade.

~~~
BinaryIdiot
Standardizing on a single port will eliminate a lot of issues like this but
the transition is never very easy. But you likely won't need dongles. Just
like today where you can buy USB-C to USB-C you can also buy USB-A to USB-A.
Likely we'll just have many cables like that. The only exception would be
something like connecting 3.5mm to USB-C. But as devices keep moving towards
USB-C you'll need fewer, different cords.

------
snambi
Headphone jack very useful. I use it everyday.

------
taylodl
Ports I've used:

* Thunderbolt * USB * HDMI

That's it! All my music is on my iPhone so I never listen to music on my MPB
so I've never used the audio jack. Having said that, unlike the iPhone, I
don't really see what's to be gained by removing the audio jack. Especially as
some folks have pointed out they use the digital optical out to go into a DAC
and then into their headphones. That's not how I work but having the audio
jack there to support them for that doesn't hurt me any. In fact I would argue
that's the case for all the ports I don't use: it's a PRO machine. It needs to
be able to handle all kinds of diverse scenarios not applying to me. Let the
MBA be the razor-thin, portless machine and leave the MBP alone.

------
chetanahuja
For phones, I'm an Android user but for laptops, I've loved MacBook Pro's (and
personally bought three of them other than the work provided ones) for the
last 10 years at least for their premier hardware and solid, Unix based OS. In
between, I've taken a cursory look at premier chromebooks or ubuntu based
laptops as possible replacements but have found them short on one pretext or
another. But if the minimalism fundamentalists from Apple win out and start
stealing required ports (and Yes, I need the mini port, the HDMI port _and_
the SDCard slot ... along with USB), I'm gone. No more macbooks for me.

------
Zigurd
I'm using an MBP I recovered from a wine spill. It also has a headphone jack
broken off in the headphone socket. I'm currently using a bluetooth receiver
connected to my audio source switch to connect it. It's not an ideal solution
because the audio management in OS X appears to not want to reconnect to
Bluetooth audio after sleep, etc. But it will prefer a monitor with HDMI over
the internal speakers. I'm not sure why, and I don't know how to change it so
that it reconnects to and prefers a Bluetooth audio device. So, for now, I'll
be connecting the audio-out on the monitor to my source switch.

------
mark_l_watson
For unhappy reasons, I feel like at least a minor expert on the lack of audio
jacks: I bought a Note 4 a little over two years ago and mine was part of a
batch they sold without an audio jack; these is a bolt in the hole. Verizon
quickly stopped selling the jack-less Note 4. My wife's, which she bought
after mine has an audio jack.

So, I have over two years experience of a phone without and audio jack. It
sucks. I dislike using Bluetooth headphones.

I also use audio jacks on my laptops.

This seems like a profit thing for Apple, selling their own expensive wireless
headphones.

------
onion2k
I listen to music on my Mac using bluetooth headphones, but I still leave a
pair of ordinary wired headphones plugged in just in case the bluetooth pair
aren't connected for some reason, otherwise the sound will play over the
built-in speakers by default. I'd be happy to give up the headphone jack but
only on the proviso that I have complete control over what happens in
situations where the headphones aren't there.

~~~
test1235
I'm sure I remember there being different volume settings for speaker vs
headphones. If there's anything playing out of the speakers, it's at the
volume you had used it last, before you plugged in your headphones, no?

~~~
arm
Yep, it’s possible to set different volumes for all sound output devices
connected to the Mac (including the built-in speakers) in _System Preferences
→ Sound → Output_.

------
coderjames
I use the headphone port on my rMBP (2013) daily. Frequently use it at the
same time as both USB ports and the mag-safe charging port. HDMI port used
often enough that I wouldn't buy a laptop without one. I've never used either
Thunderbolt port and would actually prefer to swap those out for more USB
ports.

[edit: Thunderbolt, not lightning. See, I never use it.]

------
gjolund
I feel like Apple has been sending me signals for years that I'm not their
target demographic.

I don't see myself buying another mbp ever again.

------
cobookman
Why would apple even need to ask these questions. I'd assume they'd have
software which phones home usage information.

------
appleiigs
I wish they would refresh the product line soon. I need to replace a laptop,
but I refuse to pay the Apple premium for old products.

If you look at Macrumor's buyers guide, it's all over due except for the
Macbook.
([http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac](http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac))

Days since refresh:

149 - Macbook

338 - iMac

485 - MBP

556 - MB Air

700 - Mini

1001 - Mac Pro

------
some-guy
I'm a weird use case: I don't use the audio jack on my Macbook Pro. As someone
who still relishes their 10-year-old Apogee Duet audio interface on their 2015
Macbook Pro (Firewire 400 -> Firewire 800 -> Thunderbolt), I wonder if I can
convert Thunderbolt now to USB-C? :)

~~~
SysArchitect
Thunderbolt 3 is rolled into the USB-C connector. So now USB-C will carry PCIe
and USB 3...

[http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/io/thunderbolt/thunde...](http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/io/thunderbolt/thunderbolt-
technology-consumer.html)

So yes, "USB-C" will run your Firewire 800 ;-)

~~~
some-guy
Good to know! I guess I have another 10 years with this thing.

------
f_allwein
> "Do you ever use the headphone port on your MacBook Pro with Retina
> display?"

Interesting - I thought they would know that anyway, as OS X should realize
when I plug in a headphone.

If Apple's vision is a world without wires, I'm all for it given the mess of
wires on my desk.

~~~
barrkel
It's only displacement of wires, though. You'll need more wires to charge all
your wireless devices.

For example, I still use a wired mouse because it never stops working. I use
wired headphones with my work laptop and home desktop because I never have to
hear those fatal words "Battery Low!" just when I want to settle in and focus
on something for the next few hours.

~~~
muninn_
Wireless chargers.

~~~
AstralStorm
More like charger mouse pad. Does not help with Bluetooth headphones, you'd
need a wired charging headband or something.

------
shaftoe
I don't see HDMI on that list.

~~~
kogepathic
It's okay, they'll make a $9 dongle for that.

~~~
saurik
They actually don't even bother to sell first party display port adapters for
HDMI: you have to get a third party adapter.

~~~
test1235
in some ways, that's a good thing - third party accessories are usually a bit
more reasonably priced.

~~~
saurik
That doesn't make any sense, because the existence of Apple selling an adapter
doesn't mean you have to buy theirs: them not selling a first party adapter
can thereby only be a bad thing (and in fact it is a pretty horrible thing as
all the third party adapters are crap :/ the Apple adapters tend to last
forever, while the third party HDMI ones I am forced to buy tend to literally
crack into pieces after a rather short period of usage). But like: the point
is that Apple doesn't always go "yay, an opportunity to make money on an
adapter", as one of the most common adapters I see in the wild (to plug all
but the largest MacBook into most modern projectors) is one Apple doesn't even
bother selling.

~~~
csydas
I was about to call you on this but checking the store it seems you're right,
they're reselling another adapter, not an apple branded.

However, I do disagree on the quality of third party adapters; there are many
fine ones out there, and the cheap mini-dispay to HDMI I bought last time I
was in the US works picture perfect. I think it was PNY but not at home so
don't remember.

Not to say all are good, but there are quite a few good adapters.

------
joeevans1000
I suspect the survey is just to show that they supposedly polled the
community. It seems any decisions this big would have been resolved quite a
while ago in order to be able to ship when it seems they will.

------
SocratesV
To analyze and understand Apple's move (and it's not just Apple, they are
probably the one people complain the most about because they tend to have a
far smaller product range being used by a higher number of people), one must
think 5-10 years ahead.

By getting rid of all these different ports, they are making their product
simpler, while still capable of interacting with devices that use them (via
dongles). This means they have to build less into them making them also
lighter, more portable and requiring a standard way to connect other devices.

Dongles are a pain. Yes they are. But also one can argue that in a lot of
situations, maybe the majority, if you are in need to use external devices,
you're probably in a situation where your laptop is on the top of a desk, in
which case maybe even using some kind of a HUB makes more sense (this applies
both for home, office and meeting rooms).

So why aren’t they doing this in 5-10 years time? Well, because by doing this
(Apple and others), they’ll speed things up. They’ll create more need for
devices compatible with USB-C, which means companies will start making
peripherals for that market.

However, think by now we’ve all understood that Apple is aiming for a wireless
future. The last compact camera I bought mid-2015 already had Wi-Fi.
Headphones are moving wireless (hopefully in a safe way, since there is a
reasonable concern about the health effects). Wireless peripherals already
exist. The reason why they still have USB-C is probably mostly because of
charging, with the nice side effect of keeping other devices able to connect
via a simple dongle (rather than a wireless HUB).

I’m also not a fan of wireless keyboards and mice. Mostly because of the
hassle of managing batteries/running out of juice and not finding other
batteries. A good move from Apple would be to solve that problem: wireless
charging becoming the norm instead of an expensive add-on, with longer lasting
batteries, with the dream being on-the-fly wireless power feeding.

tl;dr - Apple wants to make things simpler, lighter, more portable and they
are not afraid of putting the weight of their whole range of products behind
it and taking the plunge. There will be some pain. We’ll hopefully end up with
a better experience after the transition period.

~~~
heliumcraft
> Headphones are moving wireless (hopefully in a safe way, since there is a
> reasonable concern about the health effects)

Do tell more about these "reasonable concerns about the health effects" of
wireless... ?

~~~
pjc50
I thought the genuine concern about headphones was many people using them at
far too high a volume.

------
adamlett
I use the headphone jack fairly often, but I'm fine with them removing it. I
seem to buy new semi-expensive headphones every other year, and if my next
purchase must be a pair of wireless ones, so be it.

I don't get all the angst over this. If you have a set of wired headphones
that are irreplaceable to you, get an adapter. If not, get a set of new ones.

~~~
driverdan
> I seem to buy new semi-expensive headphones every other year

Why? Good headphones last tens of years.

The alternative to a headphone jack is not wireless. Bluetooth audio and
having more unnecessary batteries to charge suck. The alternative is a USB DAC
+ amp you can use with any standard pair of headphones.

~~~
Anderkent
Cable wear, probably. I've replaced the cable in my AKG k702s four times since
I bought them in march 2014. So about twice a year.

~~~
AstralStorm
You know, you could just pay a technician 20 bucks, a good headphone cable
(whatever Sennheiser uses in top lines) and get it replaced. It is quite easy.

~~~
Anderkent
Yeah, I replace cables (the AKGs are detachable, which is nice, but for my ATH
m50s I just soldered them on myself). But many people can't be bothered

------
wobbleblob
Survey me about the damn screen. Make it less prone to scratching.

~~~
chrisseaton
How does anything ever come into contact with a laptop screen to scratch it?

~~~
wobbleblob
The gap between the surface of the screen and the bottom of the laptop is so
tiny that when you close the lid, any dust particle, even so small you can
barely see them, gets squashed against the screen. When you leave the laptop
charging for a while, static seems to build up on the screen, and it attracts
dust particles.

You can tell this is not an incidental thing if you examine the surface of a 2
year old screen. Even if you don't have visible scratches, you can see the
contours of the trackpad on the screen, where the gap is a fraction of an inch
wider, and the screen stays more pristine.

~~~
djrogers
> You can tell this is not an incidental thing if you examine the surface of a
> 2 year old screen

I'm looking at a 6 year old screen, a 3 year old screen, and a year old screen
right now - no scratches on any of them, and I don't do anything special to
aka scare of them.

------
ValleyOfTheMtns
I rarely use the headphone ports on any device now. Wireless bluetooth
headphones with active noise cancelling are one of the best tech-purchases
I've made. Would never go back.

~~~
gtirloni
If you don't mind crappy audio (music that skips, plays fast/slow depending on
interference, etc) and terrible recording (handsfree car-like 8bit audio),
Bluetooth is fine.

~~~
izacus
And having to charge all the things all the time.

~~~
kranner
And latency which makes monitoring live audio (e.g. playing a guitar through
an effects processing app) unusable.

------
AstralStorm
Is the purpose of this survey schadenfreude?

------
intoverflow2
There is an excuse for the removal of jack rolled out by a lot of people:
"Apple has data on jack usage, they know what they are doing"

Clearly they do not have data on it...

~~~
sosborn
How does this prove that they don't have data? All it says is that they are
seeking more data.

------
jbmorgado
<sarcasm>iPad sales are falling so Apple thinks the way to solve that is by
making the MacBook more iPad like so that people don't feel temped to choose
one over the other.</sarcasm>

