

Ask HN: Convince a programmer to switch over to Mac (from Linux) - smokestack

Macs seem to have become extremely popular for developers who don't even necessarily develop for Mac, and I'm wondering why. Comparably spec'd notebooks are up to $1000 less than a Macbook. Where's the added value?<p>I'm in the market for a new laptop, and haven't found any compelling reasons for switching over as a backend web developer. I'm really curious about what I'm missing as a non-Mac developer. Is it just a status purchase?
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awaage
I was a big linux user that switched to MBP too a couple years ago. I was very
skeptical myself, but I'm very happy with the switch. Besides looking cool,
here's some other points from my experience: It just works better. Granted, a
couple years ago, ubuntu wasn't as nice as it is now, Mac OSX just works so
flawlessly, never restart, never shutdown (just close the lid), sleeps and
starts up in literally 1 second, great battery, connects to wifi flawlessly,
and LOVE the multitouch mouse features. I also really like certain programs
including iMovie, Logic (music production), Photoshop. I've tried switching to
Gimp, for example, which just doesn't feel right to an old-time Photoshop
user. On Ubuntu, I was pretty happy with overall experience, and if I was ONLY
using it for development, it would be just fine. I would recommend Mac to any
developer, but if you are already very comfortable with your Linux laptop,
you're probably not missing anything THAT compelling. BTW, I got my mbp for
about $1300 and would not think it's worth it for much more than that.

~~~
smokestack
Thanks. I like Macs exactly for the reasons you listed -- battery life is
awesome, great touchpad, great boot/wake-up times, and the box is undeniably
beautiful. I just found OSX's window management really clunky and unintuitive,
but that's coming from a 15-year linux/windows user.

Is your MBP a 15"? How did you find one for $1300?

~~~
awaage
I have the 13", and I would strongly recommend this if you plan to be taking
it around a lot. It's the perfect size / weight for me, and I don't think
twice about bringing it around. In regards to the window management, I have to
agree. It took a while to get used to, but now that I'm used to it, it's no
problem. It's really just what you're accustomed to. Another note is that Mac
devs love TextMate, but I've always just used VIM, so Mac is no better to me
in this category!

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alexforget
I was a long time linux user too. I switched for the quality of the hardware
and because I was tired of fighting poor hardware support.

For me a Mac is a much better experience, you focus on your work, the
hardware/OS just work. No more fighting with XF86Config, broken wireless
driver, and a hardware market focused on bringing the cost low instead of
improving quality. If you look at how much time you spend on a computer, the
cost is not the most important factor. When I get back to a pc, it always hit
me how much the quality is inferior, but then I think about the cost pressure
to sell a laptop at 400$ and I undersand.

What I don't like on Mac, is that I feel as a just another follower of a cult,
yes the look is good but I think I would prefer a less flashy brand.

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auganov
Don't over-think it. Unless there's some particular thing that only a certain
operating system can run/do then there's really not much difference. People
just have that inherent need to rationalize everything they do, so they will
be saying how they're using this or that system because it's faster, more
stable or whatever else. When in fact the biggest reason is that simply they
are used to it.

I'm a Windows guy and couldn't care less to switch. I don't know where those
crazy stories of Windows crashing everyday etc. come from. An OS just like all
the rest, if you have to actively look for a reason to switch then there's
probably none.

But still sometimes perhaps it's nice to just change the environment. Makes
life more interesting.

------
fmw
Background: I've been using different flavors of GNU/Linux since 1999, but
switched to Mac OS X in 2004 because I fell for the "Apple experience" and
felt like I was spending too much time tinkering with drivers and so forth,
while Mac OS X "just works". I've just switched my main work machine back to
GNU/Linux (Ubuntu with Xmonad).

Hardware: I've bought quite a lot of machines from Apple (also for my business
and family members) and while there have been some problems too, the
experience has been great. Apple makes durable products, with metal and glass
where their competitors use plastic. The durability of the casing should be a
factor when buying a laptop, especially if you're going to be using it
professionally. Can anyone recommend a similar product from one of Apple's
competitors? I'd like to make the switch on the hardware level as well, but
not at the cost of quality, durability and design.

Software: it just works, so you don't have to spend any time on configuration
and customization. The operating system itself is quite nice to work with. I
don't have any complaints there, although new users will probably need some
time to get used to the idiosyncrasies. GNU/Linux has some practical
advantages as a software developer, like better package management through
things like pacman and apt-get, but you'll find that Mac OS X is quite
adequate as a platform. The developer community on Mac OS X is quite
productive when it comes to making tools, Mac-related screencast and blog
posts, so you'll find a healthy ecosystem as a developer. A lot of games and
professional applications that don't natively run on GNU/Linux are also
available on Mac.

Some of the reasons I'm moving away from Mac OS X, however, are the lock-in,
DRM and the closed mentality of the company. They suck developers into a
closed ecosystem, by luring them in with the large audience they control on
their mobile platform. The word "control" is chosen on purpose here, because
that is what it feels like as an Apple user (less so on the desktop, but the
non-mobile stuff is moving into that direction too, with the App Store).

So why am I switching back to GNU/Linux?

\- I wanted to try a tiling window manager (I'm very happy with XMonad so
far),

\- my needs have changed (I hardly use GUI applications anymore; apart from
browsers),

\- I'm unhappy with the focus on the mobile platform and the influence it has
on the desktop platform (e.g. App Store),

\- I don't like how Apple restricts developers and recently started charging
for XCode (pragmatically this isn't really a major issue, but it bugs me
nonetheless),

\- I find some of their business practices quite unpleasant (e.g. how they
deal with warranty in certain situations and the well publicized App Store
shenanigans),

\- I don't want to be locked in anymore,

\- I prefer the GNU/Linux philosophy of openness and being able to tinker with
the software I run on my computer,

\- et cetera.

I'm very ambiguous towards Apple. I think they make great products, but I
dislike the closed environment and some of the business decisions they have
made. I've felt like that for a couple of years now, but the otherwise
pleasant experience has kept me from switching until recently. If you don't
mind supporting the company I would recommend buying an Apple laptop, because
you can always install a GNU/Linux distribution if you're disappointed with
Mac OS X. Ethics and philosophy aside, they have the best offering for regular
consumers and most professional users. As a developer it depends on your
preferences, but since Mac hardware can run all popular operating systems it
won't be a bad investment if only for the quality of the hardware.

Personally, I'm not planning on buying any new desktop computers from Apple,
but next time I'm in the market for a laptop I might still buy a Mac (running
GNU/Linux) if I can't find a PC laptop with the same physical and esthetic
quality.

~~~
veyron
with regards to the issue of charging for xcode: xcode 3 is still free :)

The business decision that should scare you the most was the killing of the
xserve line. Don't try to run a business production platform on a mac.

------
sixtofour
My uninformed impression, never having owned an Apple product:

They're expensive, they crease your wrists, and the risk of some physical
defect is great enough to be infuriating when they're so known for design and
so expensive.

(They also look like shit after they're a few years old, based on my team
mates units, but maybe that's from expecting them to be shiny MOMA-worthy
objects.)

For playing well with the other team mates: Mac users have always been on
different versions of Office than the rest of teams' members that I've been
with, different enough that it causes unnecessary friction while trying to
figure it out.

As a non-Mac developer: them are some expensive terminal windows.

As a ..nix developer: the ports (?) system, and its brethren/competitors,
always seem to have different/old versions of software. The saving grace being
that it _does_ have those expensive terminal windows.

tl;dr: Harumph!

------
whichdan
The multitouch trackpad is probably the best non-keyboard input device I've
ever used - coming from someone who's used a Dell trackpad, Thinkpad trackpad
+ trackpoint, multi-button mouse, single-button mouse (which would be the
worst non-keyboard input device I've used :), and, for many years, a
trackball.

The screen (15" anti-glare 1680x1050) is also much nicer than many other
laptops I've used, the build quality is superb, and I like being able to stop
in an Apple store to get something fixed. With Dell, they sent someone out
next business day to fix an issue I had, but Lenovo made me mail in my entire
laptop, leaving me without my primary computer for the better part of a week.

Also, Linux virtualization works amazingly well on a Mac. I installed Ubuntu
using Parallels, and set it fullscreen to my second desktop, so clicking Cmd+1
and Cmd+2 seamlessly shifts between Linux and Mac. It's really, really cool.

------
askar
I still don't know why but I get more things done using my MacBook for few
hours in the evening than with a Windows machine the whole daytime...again,
don't ask me why, but that's the reality and I'm happy for that.

------
noduerme
Truthfully, if I didn't have to do a lot of graphics work as well, I wouldn't
use a Mac. But being able to dive from Eclipse into
Illustrator>Photoshop>After Effects, then into the terminal, sftp, ssh, remote
mysql and dive back into Safari/FF/Chromium to test it, is very useful for my
workflow as an all-in-one freelancer. I certainly wouldn't be able to use
Windows for it. I could use Ubuntu, but would suffer on the graphic design
front, especially dealing with motion and typography. If I didn't have the
added design requirements, I'd probable just use some linux flavor. As it is,
alone, the hardware/software combo isn't worth it if you're just coding.

If someone is just developing, not designing, then no reason to go OS X. If
design and dev are tightly bound in the workflow, then it's the only good
solution right now.

~~~
smokestack
I definitely understand the Photoshop argument in favor of Macs. I just can't
get used to GIMP, but luckily I don't need to do a whole lot of graphics work.

I've heard people talking about the software, overall, being better for
programmers, but with no specific examples or comparisons to similar tools on
nix/windows. I'm assuming you haven't seen a big difference either if you're
using Eclipse primarily.

