
Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq - rolph
https://www.npr.org/2020/05/19/858605788/u-s-authorities-say-hobby-lobbys-gilgamesh-tablet-is-stolen-must-go-back-to-iraq
======
legerdemain
One of the outcomes of the US-Iraq war was Iraq's national heritage of
antiquities getting plundered and sold illegally.[1]

The burning of the Library of Alexandria is a potent symbol in Western
culture, but the world has repeatedly suffered massive losses of cultural and
historical artifacts in the last few decades. The public quickly develops
historical amnesia for recent events. Compare, for example, the loss of
Brazil's National Museum to a fire two years ago.[2]

[1]
[https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/03/ir...](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/03/iraq-
war-archeology-invasion/555200/)

[2] [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/03/fire-
engulfs-b...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/03/fire-engulfs-
brazil-national-museum-rio)

edited: clarity and link formatting

~~~
khawkins
Given the region's susceptibility to Islamic State uprisings, I'm not
convinced Iraq and Syria are going to be good stewards of antiquities in the
long-run. [1][2] These areas haven't been stable for decades.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_cultural_herita...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_cultural_heritage_by_ISIL)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_Mosul_Museum_ar...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_Mosul_Museum_artifacts)

~~~
sonofhans
Well, one of these artifacts looks to have been in that region of the world
for over 5000 years. That's a pretty good track record.

I'm sure the citizens of Philly wouldn't be susceptible to any arguments that
Baghdad would be a better place to store the Liberty Bell.

~~~
cm2187
That’s not a very good argument. ISIS has destroyed a lot of artefacts and
antique ruins. The track record, even recent, is actually pretty bad.

------
triceratops
> Hobby Lobby bought the tablet in a private sale, after a Hobby Lobby
> representative viewed the tablet in London. The auction house shipped the
> tablet to its New York office and, from there, hand-carried it to Hobby
> Lobby's headquarters in Oklahoma City, "so that Hobby Lobby could avoid
> incurring a New York sales tax," according to prosecutors.

Oy vey. I don't know how serious this is but it's not a great look. Is this
kind of thing common in the art world?

I find old clay tablets, and ancient writings in general, absolutely
fascinating - particularly the randomness of the information that we can get
from them. The oldest person whose name we know is from a signature on a
receipt for some oil or some other merchandise.[1] It's slightly incredible
when you realize that you have no idea who the ruler at the time was, or what
he (or she did) but you can pinpoint precisely which goods exchanged hands on
a specific date.

1\.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kushim_(individual)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kushim_\(individual\))

~~~
microtherion
> Is this kind of thing [tax evasion] common in the art world?

Oh yes, it seems so common that it's more or less openly advertised:

[https://www.wealthmanagement.com/art-auctions-antiques-
repor...](https://www.wealthmanagement.com/art-auctions-antiques-
report/freeports-art-world)

And art collectors are not infrequently involved in shady schemes:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urs_Schwarzenbach#VAT_fraud_an...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urs_Schwarzenbach#VAT_fraud_and_art_trafficking_with_Galerie_Gmurzynska)

~~~
karaterobot
I wonder if this is actually tax evasion. I think the idea behind this was to
avoid a taxable event from taking place, not to lie in order to avoid paying
taxes they legally had to. It's analogous to me driving out of my way to avoid
going over a toll bridge, vs. (for example) covering up my license plate to
avoid being caught by the toll cameras.

------
ctdonath
NYTimes:

"In a lawsuit filed on Tuesday, Hobby Lobby accused the auction house
Christie’s of “deceitful and fraudulent conduct” in connection with an ancient
tablet bearing a fragment of Gilgamesh. The suit claims “fraud and breach of
express and implied warrant” in connection with the tablet, and seeks the
return of what it paid for the tablet. In a statement on Tuesday, Christie’s
said the lawsuit was related to an unidentified dealer’s admission of illegal
activity “predating Christie’s involvement” with the tablet."

Interesting how few are interested in the defense that Hobby Lobby was a
victim.

~~~
boomboomsubban
>Interesting how few are interested in the defense that Hobby Lobby was a
victim.

They weren't. With this tablet, maybe they never had any solid reason to
suspect it had been looted. This wasn't the only artifact they bought, other
items had no documentation detailing their history and they made purchases
after being warned that items were likely illegal. It's doubtful they tried
very hard to verify this tablets history given their record.

There are other criminals involved, but Hobby Lobby was not a victim.

~~~
mcv
Why are such auctions even allowed? Or was this an illegal auction? It seems
to me that any respectable auction house has an obligation to ensure that
their service is not abused to fence stolen goods.

~~~
boomboomsubban
It wasn't auctioned as the owner said the provenance would not pass public
scrutiny, but instead listed for private sale. I have no clue how the legality
of that works in Britain, but Christies exists to allow rich people to show
off who is richer. I wouldn't trust their moral character.

------
dabernathy89
This is a related and surprisingly fascinating article about the cast of
characters involved in many of the missteps of the Green Collection (which
became the Museum of the Bible):

[https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/06/museum-...](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/06/museum-
of-the-bible-obbink-gospel-of-mark/610576/)

------
MikeKusold
> "Whenever looted cultural property is found in this country, the United
> States government will do all it can to preserve heritage by returning such
> artifacts where they belong,"

How does this tablet differ from any other artifact in a museum? Couldn't it
be argued that any ancient artifact from another culture is stolen?

~~~
aeturnum
Many historical artifacts were obtained under conditions we would not repeat
today. You _could_ argue that almost all artifacts of other cultures in
western museums are stolen, but not everyone goes that far.

The British Museum is embroiled in many such controversies[1] and has put up
statements around their Parthenon sculptures[2]. Large artifacts have been
returned by nation states[3].

Generally, as I understand it, museums will keep artifacts they obtained under
a framework that was legal at the time of its construction. Modern critics
point out that these legal frameworks likely would not have been accepted by
the population of the country giving up the artifact.

The Hobby Lobby artifacts do not even have a questionable legal framework as a
fig leaf over their theft. They were taken in violation of international law
as well as Iraqi and US law.

[1] [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/04/british-
museum...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/04/british-museum-is-
worlds-largest-receiver-of-stolen-goods-says-qc)

[2] [https://www.britishmuseum.org/parthenon-sculptures-
trustees-...](https://www.britishmuseum.org/parthenon-sculptures-trustees-
statement)

[3] [https://whc.unesco.org/en/news/116](https://whc.unesco.org/en/news/116)

~~~
hinkley
The British Museum was disappointing to me. I don't know what they're doing
with the space, but if someone had told me that the British Museum was the
same size as the Art Institute of Chicago it would have turned into an
argument.

Meanwhile the Louvre is so big (>2.5x the size) that you have to pace
yourself.

But that's not what was really disappointing. I had a vague comprehension that
the British Museum contained artifacts that other countries wanted
repatriated, and then I walked in and I knew. I knew exactly what they were
talking about.

It didn't feel like a museum. It felt like I had wandered into a pirates
treasure cave. Other museums have works that were purchased through channels,
or loaned out. They have cultural artifacts and archaeological pieces that are
contemporary to the region, offering vignettes into history, how we got to be
here today.

I was just looking at colonial plunder. In an era where sane people would be
scrambling to define themselves any other way.

~~~
coldpie
> The British Museum was disappointing to me. I don't know what they're doing
> with the space, but if someone had told me that the British Museum was the
> same size as the Art Institute of Chicago it would have turned into an
> argument. Meanwhile the Louvre is so big (>2.5x the size) that you have to
> pace yourself.

Whaat! I visited the British museum for the first time a couple years ago. I
spent two whole days there and still didn't see everything I wanted to!

> But that's not what was really disappointing. I had a vague comprehension
> that the British Museum contained artifacts that other countries wanted
> repatriated, and then I walked in and I knew. I knew exactly what they were
> talking about. It didn't feel like a museum. It felt like I had wandered
> into a pirates treasure cave.

However this, I get. I can definitely see that point of view dampening your
experience.

------
sandworm101
The tablet is real? A bunch of the Hobby Lobby / Museum of the Bible scrolls
turned out to be fake.

[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/dead-
sea-s...](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/dead-sea-scrolls-
face-museum-of-the-bible-washington-artefacts-a8596636.html)

"Hobby Lobby said that it was new to the world of antiquities when it began
acquiring historical items for its Museum of the Bible in 2009 and made
mistakes in relying on dealers and shippers who “did not understand the
correct way to document and ship” them."

------
vorpalhex
Auction houses have some very shady practices sometimes, and I imagine it's
very difficult for buyers to navigate what is legal and what's not - but also
in this case, it kind of seems like maybe they should have known.

~~~
imglorp
They knew. Their own expert lawyer warned them in 2010. It's also their MO
apparently. A second case involves Egyptian papyri. They also mis-declare
things to get them into the country (ie calling them "tiles" in customs
declarations). So, lying and stealing.

1\. [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/05/nyregion/hobby-lobby-
arti...](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/05/nyregion/hobby-lobby-artifacts-
smuggle-iraq.html)

2\. [https://www.thedailybeast.com/hobby-lobby-scandal-widens-
as-...](https://www.thedailybeast.com/hobby-lobby-scandal-widens-as-museum-of-
the-bible-admits-oxford-prof-sold-illicit-papyri-to-green-family)

3\. [https://www.theguardian.com/news/2020/jan/09/a-scandal-in-
ox...](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2020/jan/09/a-scandal-in-oxford-the-
curious-case-of-the-stolen-gospel)

~~~
_bxg1
The comical part is that their very interest in the items is based in a
religion that's nominally very opposed to lying and stealing. Fetishizing
artifacts is apparently more important to their faith than doing what's right.

~~~
prutschman
Opposed to lying, stealing, and worshiping artifacts, no less.

------
chadlavi
what a bizarre timeline we live in

(edit: to be clear what I mean is that it's extremely bizarre that a discount
tchochke store in the US would own an extremely precious Mesopotamian artifact
in the first place, not bizarre that justice is actually being done about it)

~~~
aaronbrethorst
It's not that weird. The founder of Hobby Lobby is an evangelical Christian,
among other things.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Green_(entrepreneur)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Green_\(entrepreneur\))

~~~
chadlavi
tbh that guy's whole deal only makes it weirder

~~~
bryanrasmussen
I have to think it's because the Epic of Gilgamesh has a flood in it.

------
hprotagonist
take that, L. Bob Rife.

(the similarities between hobby lobby stealing tablets and religiously
motivated tech magnates doing the same in a certain cyberpunk book of wide
repute are, as usual, a bit eerie)

~~~
throwaway17_17
Maybe the downvoted are for lack of on topic and substantive response, but I
really appreciated the Snow Crash reference. I thought it was funny.

------
MH15
"The United States of America v. Approximately Four Hundred Fifty (450)
Ancient Cuneiform Tablets" \-
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobby_Lobby_smuggling_scandal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobby_Lobby_smuggling_scandal)

~~~
Andrex
One of my favorite random Wikipedia finds:

"United States v. Approximately 64,695 Pounds of Shark Fins"
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Approximately...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Approximately_64,695_Pounds_of_Shark_Fins)

In rem cases have fun titles in general. :D

------
AndyMcConachie
How is this any different than basically everything in the British Museum?

------
dependenttypes
Here are some more similar cases:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimedes_Palimpsest](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimedes_Palimpsest)
and
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elgin_Marbles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elgin_Marbles)

------
slg
>"Whenever looted cultural property is found in this country, the United
States government will do all it can to preserve heritage by returning such
artifacts where they belong"

So what is the definition of "looted" here? Museums are full of things that
fit various definitions of that word.

~~~
wl
There are a few clear lines you can draw.

Many institutions built their collections through a practice known as partage
or division of finds. They would go to a government and offer their services
as archeologists in exchange for a portion of their finds. While this practice
is rare post-1970, there's not any serious debate about the legitimacy of
cultural heritage exported under this regime.

Purchases from the antiquities markets are also considered legitimate,
assuming the export was originally done with the permission of the originating
country.

Where things really get questionable is when material culture was extracted by
imperial power or as spoils of war. The Rosetta Stone is the most famous
example. Also, you've got things like the Elgin Marbles that were taken
through fraud and subterfuge a long time ago. These kinds of things are
grandfathered in as a legal matter, but there's a moral argument for returning
them anyway.

~~~
randyrand
Does this line of thought apply to land as well?

------
abiogenesis
I'm amazed that "[...] fragment of the oldest known creation tale" is only
worth $1.6 million. What is even more amazing is its (recent) history:

> The U.S. dealer bought several pieces, including the Gilgamesh tablet, for
> $50,350.

~~~
boomboomsubban
Every time that the fragment was sold their were at least concerns that it was
stolen, which likely drove down the price.

------
sschueller
While we are at it. The United Kingdom should return all the artifacts it
stole from Egypt.

------
yters
Aren't most museum pieces in the west pilfered? I say we send it all back.

------
johnmarinelli
Hopefully Germany will do the same with the Bust of Nefertiti.

------
grillvogel
weren't a lot of the remaining artifacts just getting destroyed recently
anyway?

------
JoeAltmaier
Kind of sad all around. The table was essentially rescued from ignominy. But
of course it belongs to Iraq. Then it'll probably just disappear again. Sigh.

~~~
crazygringo
> _Then it 'll probably just disappear again. Sigh._

What are you basing that on?

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Oh is Iraq's government stable again? Are the people not at risk of hunger?
Will the sanctity of museums be observed now and in the future, uninterrupted?

The Elgin marbles are safe in the British Museum. Would they have been safe,
left where they were found, for 100 years?

Being PC about antiquities is intellectually interesting. But practically, it
means many antiquities will be broken up, lost or hidden.

~~~
enitihas
The Government was stable, until the US of A decided to bless them with
freedom and democracy.

Your logic is absurd. Should a rich and stable nation steal all things of
historical value from a poorer nation, in the name of history preservation?

> The Elgin marbles are safe in the British Museum. Would they have been safe,
> left where they were found, for 100 years?

It frankly doesn't matter. It was the right of the native people to decide
what to do with them.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Right, that's the PC line. Rational and reasonable. Sadly, likely to result in
more lost antiquities.

None of that argument actually addresses the safety of the artifacts, which is
my single point I'm making here.

Argue all we like about what 'should' be. The reality is, they were lost once
and could be lost again. All in support of the 'native people', who in these
cases would include hungry looters.

~~~
enitihas
The "hungry" looters getting food by selling them is a much better outcome
then the rich "gentleman" taking pleasure by seeing them in a museum. Just
because one won the genetic lottery by being born in a richer nation doesn't
mean their entertainment has more value than the food of "hungry" looters, who
too are human beings.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
So its ok if local thieves and looters take the treasures with no thought of
their preservation or provenance? But a methodical effort of record-keeping
and analysis is wrong, simply because of the thieves nationality? That's what
I mean by 'PC'. One results in the loss forever of the treasure; the other at
least preserves them.

One is 'better' than the other, only from a comfortable armchair far from the
turmoil.

~~~
testbot123
> So its ok if local thieves and looters take the treasures with no thought of
> their preservation or provenance?

No. But two wrongs don't make a right.

> a methodical effort of record-keeping and analysis is wrong, simply because
> of the thieves nationality?

When the thieves illegally steal a nation's artifacts and illegally sell them
to a private buyer? Yes.

> One is 'better' than the other, only from a comfortable armchair far from
> the turmoil.

... he said, from a comfortable armchair far from the turmoil.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Not fair! I'm not suggesting a course of action, or passing judgement on the
right solution; that is squarly with responders here. I simply observe, the
'right' action will likely result in the destruction/loss of more antiquities.
Which is amply supportable by history, recent and ancient.

------
iamleppert
It's just going to go back there and be stolen again, so what's the point? At
least where it is now it is protected and on display to the public.

------
desireco42
This NPR, source we should trust. It carefully avoids to say that tablet was
stollen from Iraq during US invasion. Whole museums and collections were
stollen during that time by advancing US soldiers and "contractors".

I highly doubt HobbyLobby owners didn't know origin of this tablet.

~~~
doktrin
Since the article claims the tablet was in London "in or before 2001" it
couldn't have been looted during the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

------
selimthegrim
This sounds like the beginning of a horror movie you'd find on Lifetime or
Hallmark, but where the ancient Mesopotamian evil accepts Christ and sits down
for tea and cakes with the children like in Narnia.

~~~
davidw
"Ned Flanders comes into possession of an ancient evil stone tablet and makes
Homer do his bidding"

~~~
selimthegrim
Or maybe JHU, given their financial exigency of late?

[http://washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/heavily-in-debt-
ne...](http://washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/heavily-in-debt-newseum-
considered-risky-strategy-to-improve-
finances/2015/07/01/b5e94286-19e7-11e5-bd7f-4611a60dd8e5_story.html%3FoutputType%3Dcomment%26commentID%3Dwashingtonpost.com/ECHO/item/8a001840-11a1-4ecd-9d6c-f7797ebd39b6)

