
​72 Hours of Pwnage: A Paranoid N00b Goes to Def Con - pieter1976
https://motherboard.vice.com/read/72-hours-of-pwnage-a-paranoid-n00b-goes-to-def-con
======
wyldfire

        > “Aren’t those the people who break into computers?”
        >
        > “Yes—also phones, cars, airplanes, and human bodies.”
        > 
        > “I thought that stuff was illegal.”
    

While I think they're truly innovative and inevitable, the advent of "secure
CPUs" [1] over the last decade or two will eventually become the norm. And
once they do -- lookout, brother. The woman who was having this conversation
scoffs at how Def Con can even take place if the subject matter is what she
thinks it is. In a short time, the computer attacks which cause embarrassing
leaks and expensive losses will add up to legislators deciding something must
be done. At that time, the number of us who will still like and prefer to be
able to run whatever code on whatever processor we care to will be so small
that it won't matter.

[1] by "secure CPUs" I'm referring to ones that support signed bootloaders,
facilitating good things like more-difficult-to-pwn-by-attackers and bad
things like DRM and limiting code to proprietary walled garden app stores.

~~~
riskable
The trouble with "secure CPUs" is that they really only secure the boot
process. It is then up to the OS (as usual) to secure itself which is where
most failures of security occur anyway.

Consider all the phone "OSes" (aka ROMs) you can install on phones with locked
boot loaders that just replace a few binaries/files here and there in an
existing OS to change how it works/feels. The maker of said ROMs may not have
the ability to replace the kernel but any vulnerability in said kernel will
allow them to replace everything else which is precisely where userland
security lives.

So the hardware may be "secure" from the perspective of the manufacturer but
not from the perspective of the user. They can still be pwned.

------
a2tech
He should have gone to BlackHat if he wanted to see anything really
interesting. Def Con is mostly a big party with life style talks and people
talking about old stuff.

Thats not to say there isn't neat stuff to do at Def Con (I've seen plenty of
neat talks) but its mostly a big party. There's nothing really scary going on
there.

~~~
tronje
It sounds weird that they're selling key-logging sticks for $50 and spoofing
routers for $100 at a convention where you'd think everyone can build that
stuff by themselves for a much lower price.

Just to add to your point, I suppose.

~~~
pmorici
Even if you value your time as worthless then maybe you could build a hardware
key logger for less than $50 in parts but I really doubt it.

~~~
riskable
There's no need to "build" anything for this purpose. Just buy a general-
purpose microcontroller like this:

[http://www.freetronics.com.au/products/leostick](http://www.freetronics.com.au/products/leostick)

...and stick it inside a generic keyboard (which has plenty of room).

I always thought that the fact that big corporations hand out _the same_
keyboard to everyone _enables_ these sorts of attacks. Any would-be spy could
just make a handful of hardware key-logging generic HP and Dell keyboards and
easily swap out any given keyboard at any given big company without having to
even think.

I never use my employer's provided mouse/keyboard combo. Mostly because
they're always absolute crap but also because I want to give any potential
attackers a hard time. I can only imagine the look on some attacker's face
when they show up at my desk and see custom hardware everywhere =)

------
LeonM
TL;DR: author did some gambling in casinos and got drunk in strip clubs,
barely attended any talks because he doesn't understand the jargon, almost got
pwnd by connecting to the wrong WiFi.

Not really worth the time to read.

~~~
forgottenpass
Things like this make me wonder if paid writers for (in this case) Motherboard
ever know what the fuck they're talking about.

As an active DEF CON attendee and seeing the press coverage over the years, I
can start to "see the matrix" of how to lazily assemble a news story. He even
links to the Hacker Manifesto FFS. I thought VICE was aiming higher than this
kind of trash.

It makes me distrust reporters. Do they just turn off the "I'm a noob" angle,
assume the standard authoritative tone they always use and cover other topics
with just as flimsy of an understanding?

~~~
rhaps0dy
>Do they just turn off the "I'm a noob" angle, assume the standard
authoritative tone they always use and cover other topics with just as flimsy
of an understanding?

Yes. See [Murray] Gell-Mann Amnesia:

“Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You open the
newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray's case,
physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist
has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the
article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward—reversing cause
and effect. I call these the "wet streets cause rain" stories. Paper's full of
them. In any case, you read with exasperation or amusement the multiple errors
in a story, and then turn the page to national or international affairs, and
read as if the rest of the newspaper was somehow more accurate about Palestine
than the baloney you just read. You turn the page, and forget what you know.”

― Michael Crichton

[https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/65213-briefly-stated-the-
ge...](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/65213-briefly-stated-the-gell-mann-
amnesia-effect-is-as-follows-you)

~~~
phaemon
Rather ironically, you can get the same effect reading Michael Crichton ;-)

~~~
wonkaWonka
At least it's _supposed_ to be fiction.

------
jjnoakes
There ought to be a way, at the OS level, to configure a machine so no network
traffic goes in or out over an unsecured link except for the VPN application's
traffic.

Then, if you configure secure links to be WPA at work, WPA at home, and your
VPN, there should be little risk to joining an open network to bring up a VPN.

~~~
dec0dedab0de
You can do that with the routing table.

~~~
u02sgb
Interesting - links/details?

~~~
theossuary
This is a must read if you're interested in non-standard Linux networking:
[http://lartc.org/lartc.html](http://lartc.org/lartc.html)

Look for "Split access", it's pretty similar to what you're talking about.
Basically you'd just send all your traffic on your default routes table to
127.0.0.1 (nowhere), and all the traffic on your VPN routes table to the VPN.
That way when the VPN isn't active all your traffic gets blackhole'd, when
your VPN is active it'll all get sent over the encrypted tunnel though.

~~~
u02sgb
Thanks

------
ianpurton
If you can't afford Def Con or can't be arsed then
[https://www.reddit.com/r/netsec](https://www.reddit.com/r/netsec) is fun.

------
cypherg
Vegas smells like cigarettes and garbage. Skip the long lines and absurd Vegas
expenses and watch the talks from YouTube.

~~~
TD-Linux
Or still suffer Vegas, but do all of the contests at DEF CON instead of the
talks.

------
Pica_soO
Venture there with just one piece of non-hackable soft and hardware - a key
generator that renews its key every h. If you are the only holder and perciver
of the key after the next hour while this laptop stays on the internet -the
money on a anonymous account is yours. Else The money returns into the
jackpot.

In greed we thrust.

------
outworlder
I can't find anywhere in the article that says those photos were taken with
permission.

I was under the impression that photographs were not allowed.

------
throwanem
I see Defcon doesn't have quite as stringent a media policy as HOPE, which
booted Vice in response to blatant violation of the signed-consent
requirement.

------
krupan
First I've heard of demonsaw. I can't tell from quickly perusing the website.
Is it open source? Has anyone tried it?

------
brotoss
Really boring article

