
How Much do you Need to Earn to Afford a Modest Apartment in Your State? - dsr_
http://nlihc.org/oor
======
bane
So I live in one of the red states, and I live in one of the more expensive
areas of that red state (but by no means the _most_ expensive of those areas).
But the vast majority of the state is pretty rural and correspondingly cheap.
Maybe not Blue-state (on this map) cheap, but definitely tan -- since I know
more than one person that gets by on $15-20 and has a two bedroom or better.

No surprise, extremely rural areas are cheaper and states with massive urban
areas are more expensive. Wyoming is cheaper than Colorado despite being
similar-ish states next to one another. In Wyoming, you're glad to see another
human, in Colorado, a similar sized state with 10x the population, there's a
lot more people around.

There's a similar pattern with Oregon and Washington.

So it's basically a population map [1] with a few outliers - Alaska, Hawaii,
Pennsylvania and perhaps Michigan and Illinois.

It would probably just be better to focus in on those weird states and show
_why_ they're weird -- above or below their expected categories.

1 - [https://xkcd.com/1138/](https://xkcd.com/1138/)

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jeorgun
Without looking too closely at it, the infographic looks suspiciously similar
to this one: [http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/04/lies-damned-lies-and-
fa...](http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/04/lies-damned-lies-and-facebook-
part-1-of-∞/) . Does that same rebuttal apply, or are these numbers more
accurate?

~~~
ChuckMcM
Thanks, I was going to post the same link.

Basically the more interesting stat, is that Union membership in this country
is in danger of dropping into single digits[1] and that has two effects, one
it increases the ability of companies to keep wages low, and perhaps more
importantly to unions it disempowers them from the political scene. From as
far back as early 2014 there have been a large PR campaign to push for
unionization, from trying to demonize companies like Uber or Instacart which
pay a minimum amount to the people that make the companies work, to stuff like
this which tries to position the world as unaffordable as the "rich" race away
with the money.

But submarine PR or not, its important to put stories you see in the context
of who benefits and how. Critical thinking and reading is key here.

[1]
[http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.nr0.htm](http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.nr0.htm)

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sytelus
Given the explosion of interest in real estate from investors, I think
situation going to get much much worse. I'm seeing houses going for 20% prices
_above_ asking prices, aggressive bidding wars, all cash deals - mostly from
buyers who have no intent to actually live in those houses. If you search
Zillow you will find tons of houses getting sold in 1 week and then
immediately put back in market as rental properties. The rents are usually
approximately set at 5% of house prices. This clearly means investors are
considering real estate as something that has great returns while being well
inflation protected. It's simply much better option that things likes long
term CDs or TIPS etc. If this investment efforts are actually successful, most
people - even in upper middle class - should expect to be able to only rent.

~~~
lucaspiller
This is pretty much the situation in the UK for the last few years, although
the rents are closer to 10% the property value. Where I'm from, a nice area
but pretty limited job prospects in any industry, a 2 bedroom apartment sells
for £150k ($220k) and rents for £800 ($1200) a month.

~~~
koralatov
Which part of the UK are you in? I knew there was a growing housing problem
nationwide, but it's always interesting/depressing to hear specifics.

I'm in Aberdeen, and I've noticed the same kind of issue, except here renting
a two-bed in a not-crappy part of town is £1,000+ per month. A crappier area,
like where I live, is between £700 and £800. A nice area is in the region of
£1,500.

Here, the (currently stuttering) oil industry has had a huge intensifying
effect on price rises, both by putting more well-paid people into the rental
market and by creating a larger than average pool of Buy-to-Let landlords
looking to invest their oil earnings in property "for their retirement".

~~~
lucaspiller
I'm not there anymore, but this is West Dorset. It's a nice place to raise a
young family, but the job prospects are few and far between. It's a bit too
far to commute to major cities unless you want a 3+ hour drive or train
journey each day. Unless you are happy working in Tesco or being an office
administrator, all young people will gravitate towards London. The biggest
industry is tourism, but that of course is very seasonal.

There is a lot of new development going on (around 60/40 split between green
and brown field) most of it being retirement apartments. They are a great idea
as they create jobs and relieve housing demand, but at ~£300k they are well
out of the price range of most local people.

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vinceguidry
Just get a roommate? When did a two-bedroom apartment become a human right?
Housing costs are high, undeniably, but the real issue is the shit job market.

~~~
therobot24
>> When did a two-bedroom apartment become a human right?

The title is "one-bedroom". Did you even read that far?

~~~
axitanull
But if you read further into the linked article
([http://nlihc.org/oor](http://nlihc.org/oor)), it talks about "two bedroom
unit".

The original title of this submission "In No State Can A Minimum Wage Worker
Afford A One Bedroom Apartment" is linked to an entire different link
([http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-05-22/no-state-can-
minimu...](http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-05-22/no-state-can-minimum-wage-
worker-afford-one-bedroom-apartment)).

Edit: since the title of submission has been changed.

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alexbecker
That map sure looks nice. On the other hand, it's nearly impossible to
actually get the stats for Kansas, because it decides I want Colorado or Iowa
and the resulting popup covers Kansas. But it's the design the really matters,
not the data, right?

~~~
USAnum1
In case you are still interested in those stats, it looks like following a
link in this format:
[http://nlihc.org/oor/<state>](http://nlihc.org/oor/<state>) can get you them.

Eg: [http://nlihc.org/oor/kansas](http://nlihc.org/oor/kansas) or
[http://nlihc.org/oor/michigan](http://nlihc.org/oor/michigan)

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pconner
For anyone else wondering what the criteria for "affording a two bedroom
apartment" is, it looks like they define it as having the yearly rent cost be
less than or equal to 1/3 of your yearly income (pre-taxes).

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axitanull
On the other hand, according to [Numbeo
survey]([http://www.numbeo.com/property-
investment/gmaps_rankings.jsp](http://www.numbeo.com/property-
investment/gmaps_rankings.jsp)) , US has one of the lowest income to property
pricing ratio worldwide. Whereas in the third world and developing countries,
people are also struggling to afford a place to live.

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mjcohen
For Southern California, and the Los Angeles area in particular, this is a
very good blog to read:
[http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/](http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/)

Their current (May 29) entry is titled "Don’t hold your breath for Millennials
to purchase homes: 6 years into a recovery and Millennials are still moving
into parental homes at record levels."

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ori_b
How has this changed over time?

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ytjohn
After looking at this for my home state - while thinking about the area I live
in, I decided that it's more fair to say that this applies to large, populated
cities. It'd be more interesting and relevant to do a rent breakdown by
population density areas.

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ac29
State wide prices are pretty useless. They claim the highest wage required for
a 2bd unit in CA is ~$27/hour. I make about this much, and in the bay area
actual 2bd rent prices would be 60-70% of my post tax income, before any
utilities/etc.

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protomyth
The data for North Dakota might as well be divided into east and west. I
believe the number for the eastern part of the state, but the western part
requires a much higher wage. Witness how much McDonalds is paying in Wiliston,
ND.

~~~
bane
Right, this would be much more meaningful if it was calculated on county or
district or some other fine granular area. States are far too diverse for this
to be interesting.

~~~
larzang
It is, click on a state.

~~~
bane
I just get a pop-up that blocks out the entire state with a "more info" button
and definitely not a map by county, but I can fuss around and choose specific
counties.

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gizi
Expensive urban areas suffer from an excess of demand for housing, while the
stock of houses is naturally limited, pushing the rental rates through the
roof. A good example would be London, UK. New York and San Francisco in the US
are other good examples. People want to move there, because they are attracted
by the jobs. The question is now, of course, why do employers want to move
there? Because their customers are there? I doubt it. The economies of SF or
NY obviously feed on the rest of the country. Because labour is cheaper there?
Also not. With communication channels pretty much of equivalent quality across
the country, there is no rational, justifiable reason for an employer to set
up his offices in an expensive urban area. He is just pushing down the
standards of living for the lower salary rungs of his staff.

~~~
santaclaus
> People want to move there, because they are attracted by the jobs.

I think there is more to it than that: people like functional public transit
systems, people like the concentration of others with similar interests,
people like diversity, people like living arounds lots of restaurants, bars,
entertainment...

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xname
A two bedroom unit is for a family (a couple with a kid or two kids), not for
a single person. Why would a minimum wage employee lives in a two bedroom
unit?

~~~
axitanull
\- Single-parent families, with a parent living on minimum wage.

\- Students.

\- People are expected to leave their parents house at age 18. But without a
proper trade skills, they can only earn minimum wage.

\- etc.

But we may be missing the point here. Since this article doesn't seem to take
into the consideration of other living expenses, even if we're talking about a
family with two parents and kid instead of a single person: the family may
still struggle to pay the rent plus bills.

~~~
vlasev
While I agree about the single-parent families, I disagree about students. No
way a student needs a two bedroom accommodation.

