
Flat Earthers Nearly Derailed a Space Photo Book - pseudolus
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/14/science/nasa-flat-earth.html
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lowdose
Last weekend I met a person that was convinced the US government protects "the
edge". I told him that was very interesting.

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munk-a
I don't think there is anything you can do when interacting with these people
outside of smiling and nodding - so I'm sad to see you get downvotes.

This is actually a really big problem for me as I find it physically
discomforting to listen to lies being spoken unopposed.

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lidHanteyk
Learn how to talk to people without respecting them. Once you've got it down,
you can eviscerate this sort of person in public without getting your hands
wet.

~~~
LyndsySimon
Speaking to someone without respect for them or their views isn't going to
change their minds - ever.

I have a "flat earther" friend on Facebook. I didn't know that about him until
after I'd already friended him, but he posts about it constantly. After an
initial private message of "Are you for real?", I've made it a point to as
mildly as possible point out the obvious logical fallacies in the things he
posts. I don't expect I'll ever change his mind - it's possible, but you can't
reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into.
Instead, I'd just like to have him see inconsistencies in what others who
believe what he believes say. Over time I'm hoping that will at the very least
keep it from spreading.

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deeng
> ... but you can't reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason
> themselves into.

I'm living proof that this isn't true. I was a Young Earth Creationist for
nearly 30 years, despite having an engineering degree from one of the world's
best universities. I no longer believe in anything supernatural. It took a
very long time, but I was eventually reasoned out of a position I wasn't
reasoned into.

When people incorporate ideology into their identity, challenging the ideology
directly is often interpreted as a personal attack or something else not worth
honestly engaging with. A far better approach is to examine the methods people
use to reach conclusions. There's a conversation technique called Street
Epistemology that does exactly that. IMHO, it's the most productive way to
have these kind of conversions.

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codebook
Just curious, do Flat Earthers never fly the earth a round to confirm? I mean,
leaving from America to go to Europe then Asia then America. Doesn't have to
go to the space to see the shape of the earth but just keep looping the round
earth should be sufficient. Will they think it may be another continent? with
same wife, kids, street names, etc?

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wolfgke
> Just curious, do Flat Earthers never fly the earth a round to confirm? I
> mean, leaving from America to go to Europe then Asia then America. Doesn't
> have to go to the space to see the shape of the earth but just keep looping
> the round earth should be sufficient.

If you look at the picture at

[https://wiki.tfes.org/Flat_Earth_-
_Frequently_Asked_Question...](https://wiki.tfes.org/Flat_Earth_-
_Frequently_Asked_Questions#What_does_the_earth_look_like.3F_How_is_circumnavigation_possible.3F)

you see that what you call "fly around the earth" is simply flying some giant
"circle" (perhaps not a perfect circle in the geometric sense, but you get the
idea) in the Flat Earthers' model.

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codebook
If they have only one flat model, then probably pole-to-pole might be the best
to explain... the plain cannot suddenly go to the opposite continent, for
instance goes to Australia then south pole then south America...

~~~
jtbayly
Or challenge them to a race between those locations.

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Discombulator
Overall, we need to let go of the idea that people believe things because they
have evaluated the evidence and have come to a conclusion. This is scientific
thought, and if you have ever changed your mind on a strongly held belief
based on new facts then you know that it takes conscious effort and humility,
which even the best of us cannot apply to every single position they have.

Instead, I am convinced that all of us believe mostly for emotional reasons:
the need to feel important, the need to be part of a group, the need to
maintain some social order etc. For most people, who are not willing or
capable to apply scientific thought, all of these needs trump every fact you
may have. If you want to “convince” people, you need to address first the
underlying issue, which is often difficult: loneliness, social isolation,
feelings of inferiority etc.

One example I found particularly striking for the contrast between the common
“rationality” assumption and actual working of beliefs, is this paper by Max
Adams:
[https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/9893/2a75ad8e79585e95c58a26...](https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/9893/2a75ad8e79585e95c58a26d61878b72c4937.pdf)

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it-just-wasnt
No they didn't. There are no "flat earthers" fucking anywhere. None. Anyone
horsing around with the gimmick is just fucking with people.

They don't exist. There are a handful of dipshits on YouTube pretending to be
flat earthers for the views. Goofing off for patreon cash, because it's almost
kind of funny. That's it.

No one ever bought the flat earth bullshit, except a tiny cross section of
damaged goods schizophrenics. The rest was just the internet fueling a slow
news day with prank calls.

I promise you there are less than 1,000 English speaking adults that ever
professed an honest belief in such a theory and meant it. That's fewer than 10
per state in the U.S. Everyone else is rolling their eyes and cracking jokes.

~~~
LyndsySimon
> That's fewer than 10 per state in the U.S.

I've personally met more than 10 in my state. They are uncommon, but much more
common than you'd think.

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vivekd
I looked into flat earthers are little on the internet because it just seemed
like such an out there idea that I wanted to see how they justified it.

A lot of it seems to be based on them misunderstanding refraction and the way
light behaves over distances. Their main argument seems to be that if you take
water and put flags or boats over it, you can continue to see it for long
after the curvature of the earth makes it so you shouldn't be able to see it.

The reason for this is that light bends.

this wikipedia page has a really good rundown

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedford_Level_experiment#Exper...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedford_Level_experiment#Experiments)

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kingludite
That's just one argument. The flat-earth whatevertocallit has an answer for
everything. This is what makes it so hilarious.

For example: If you are, from a truly objective perspective, firmly stuck with
the idea that the earth must be round, you would have it no other way... then
surely seeing objects that should be hidden behind the curvature means light
must bend around the curve?

Its like person 1 arguing you cant look though glass, person 2 showing him a
glass window then 1 argues woah! The picture travels around the window! Then
the 3rd person argues the theory of transparent glass has now been refuted
because we know the picture bends around it.

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JustSomeNobody
I can't help but think that a lot of Flat Earthers exist just to troll other
Flat Earthers and Round Earthers.

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LyndsySimon
It may well have started that way online... but it's a real thing these days.
I've not encountered anyone who strikes me as a purposeful troll.

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pwython
Easily disprovable conspiracy theories like this have always existed, but it's
funny (and sad) to see them actually convince hundreds of thousands of people
through the momentum of social media these days. People really want to think
they're smarter than the "rest of the sheep."

What's ironic is the real conspiracy they're missing is the people who publish
& promote these theories (YouTubers, Bloggers, etc) probably don't believe any
of it themselves and are just trying to make a buck from the gullible.

~~~
GuiA
It’s a gregariousness thing. Humans like to be in groups, and modern life has
strongly reduced the quantity and kind of groups we can be a part of, as well
as loosened family ties which used to prime over everything else.

Flat earthers aren’t spending their time writing equations to justify their
views - they’re posting in Facebook groups, going to conventions, etc. People
become flat earthers not because of their scientific beliefs, but because
there is a flat earth movement to become a part of.

It’s about the social group first and foremost, feeling smarter than the
establishment is an added bonus.

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pimlottc
> gregarity

I think you mean gregariousness?

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GuiA
Yup!

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jakeogh
It's not designed to convince anyone here that earth is flat, this is however
the target audience.

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giarc
I wonder if Facebook allows targeting to topic "flat earth" or "conspiracy"?
If so, he could have just disallowed ads to these groups and got around the
issue. What is more likely is allowing ad targeting to those with an interest
in NASA or SpaceX or even just broad topics like space/astronomy etc and just
avoid those flat earth users all together.

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jakelazaroff
_> He learned that he could tell Facebook whom he did — and did not — want to
reach. “We specified we didn’t want conspiracy theorists and lunar landing
deniers and flat earthers,” he said._

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giarc
Oops - I somehow missed that even though I looked through the article a second
time to prevent this error from happening :)

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Dutchie2020
The documentary "Behind the curve" gives a nice glimpse inside the minds of
Flat Earthers.

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scohesc
So, it's not flat earthers at all, it's facebook trying to optimize what the
world should and should not see through "algorithms" and "machine learning"
for the sole purpose of selling more user information.

Why should facebook exist anymore?

