
Coffee Shops Pull the Plug on Laptop Users - talison
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124950421033208823.html
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abalashov
I don't know - my personal solution to this problem is one of reciprocity and
mutuality in my business etiquette. If I'm going to spend all day working at a
coffee shop, I'm going to buy a fair bit of stuff, too. Not all at once, of
course, but in some sort of steady trickle. The impact this has on nutrition
and caloric intake is left as an exercise to the student.

It's not that I'm rich; quite the contrary, actually. But I understand that a
coffee shop needs to be able to justify the opportunity cost of giving up a
table, let alone the sort of comfortable table at which I often like to work.

I think what the coffee shop owners and employees like to see isn't me paying
their wages; I can't afford to buy a latte every hour either financially or
biologically. But what I can do is buy a latte when I come in, and maybe a few
refills of drip coffee throughout the day, maybe a bagel and whatnot for lunch
(money that would otherwise be spent anyway if I'm not near home). Oh, yes,
and I tip pretty generously throughout it all, which keeps the employees that
might otherwise look askance content--although, of course, that is not the
only reason I do it.

I frequent a variety of local coffee shops with a range of attitudes toward
laptop campers, although all of them tolerate laptop users, just some more
begrudgingly than others. And yet, I'm one of their favourite customers, it
seems, because I at least try to make it worthwhile for the shop to have me
around, too.

Of course, my story here may not be universally applicable; I spend half my
time in a college town, where people who colonise to study or work on a
computer all day are universal and if you locked them out you'd simply
alienate 90% of your customer base.

(Here's a hint: Don't open a coffee shop in a college town, or you will
constantly struggle with this problem; there's just not a lot of table
turnover, but you can't really tell them to move along when the sort of
customer they are is a majority constituency.)

The other half is spent in Atlanta, equidistantly from two fairly major state
universities. That imparts a vaguely similar quality upon the whole thing, and
the local coffee shops are also unusually, uh, 'progressive' in Midtown.

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alex_c
It is painfully obvious that there is demand for a service here. People who
bring their own tea bag and use the free wifi the entire day are never going
to be profitable, but what about laptop users who aren't quite that cheap?

I did the working-from-a-cafe thing for a while, and it can be quite
enjoyable. Working from home can lead to self-discipline problems. Renting an
office can be expensive. Shared workspaces are more affordable, but the
atmosphere isn't necessarily great. Working in coffee shops isn't for
everyone, but it clearly works for some people.

So what's the business model that can make this work for everyone? There has
to be one.

~~~
dlsspy
Hacker Dojo / coworking spaces. Charge a monthly or daily rate for a place to
sit alone or with peers in a facility that has a restroom, tables, and power
outlets.

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3pt14159
In Canada many of our cafes have 20 min max signs. I've only ever seen it
actually enforced once, when someone had stayed for nearly 5 hours without
buying more than a simple coffee.

~~~
sfphotoarts
I've never been there but isn't that rather a sweeping statement? I thought
Canada was pretty big, isn't like me saying in CA many of our cafes...?

Sounds like a good reason to move to SF. Any coffee shop that limits or bans
internet usage will quickly loose trade to those that embrace it. Wifi is like
having a bathroom, its just part of a coffee shop.

I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy, the coffee shops need to factor the price
into their drinks, people are willing to pay for the things they need, just
like the cost of cleaning the bathrooms is factored in. I realize every time I
spend nearly $4 for a drink that probably costs under 50c to make that I'm
subsidizing the experience.

~~~
rdouble
_Sounds like a good reason to move to SF_

Many of the coffee shops in SF have already taken steps to limit laptop usage.
Ritual removed all the power plugs. Four Barrel purposely does not have wifi.
Same with the newer Blue Bottle in Mint Plaza. Certain cafes like Sugarlump
and that one in Bernal which I forgot the name have very bad wifi that they do
not fix, on purpose, to limit the number of laptop users. Mami Tobi's in Hayes
Valley also does not have wifi, on purpose.

All the coffee shops in the Inner Richmond charge for Wifi, except for Martha
Bros, which doesn't have any reasonable seating.

Reverie in Cole Valley removed the wifi years ago. Oddly enough the wifi
removal was initiated by Craig Newmark.

Unfortunately in cities like SF or "college towns" the free wifi in cafes is
severely abused. People will buy the cheapest cup of coffee and then sit there
for 8 hours. When I lived in Cambridge, it was impossible to sit at the 1369
coffee shop at any time during the day because the seating was completely
taken up by laptop lurkers. They ended up moving to paid wifi to fix the
situation. Ritual in SF is crowded enough even with no power plugs. When they
had the power plugs, the laptop usage there was ridiculous.

At this point in time the only draw of many of the coffee shops with wifi in
SF is actually the wifi itself. For instance, Mission Creek Cafe has awful
coffee, food and service. The only reason anyone goes there is because there
are power outlets and wifi.

 _Any coffee shop that limits or bans internet usage will quickly loose trade
to those that embrace it_

Coffee shops lose money on heavy wifi users. Laptop lurkers are usually
students and freelancers - people who take up space and don't spend much
money. Coffee shops make money by... selling coffee. The coffee shop that has
done the best financially in San Francisco is Blue Bottle, which not only
didn't have wifi, it didn't have a physical space. It was just a kiosk
underneath a garage door in an alley. Yet, it consistently has 20 people lined
up.

~~~
sfphotoarts
While some of what you say is true, Ritual did indeed cover their power
outlets because there were servers running whole startups there, much of the
rest is not.

It's pointless getting into each point, like the obvious error about Reverie.
Do you really think Craig asked them to remove the WiFi? Just because he's
there a lot? And besides, they do indeed have free wifi. As do many places in
the Inner Richmond.

And where did you get the idea that Blue Bottle is the most financially
successful coffee shop in SF? Their kiosk in Hayes Valley is definitely
popular and has a line of 20 people most weekends, but that's a function of
the fact that they are trendy with the cycling community and how long they
take to make the coffee. If they were half as fast any other coffee shop
they'd not have those lines.

~~~
rdouble
I feel like you're trolling me because I called you out regarding your
comments about the Lower Haight filled with beautiful women. I'm not sure what
points of mine need to be addressed. However, I did respond - good show. You
win.

I've thought about these issues and have decided you are right. Only Miami and
Milan rival the Lower Haight when it comes to the likelihood of running into a
beautiful woman. Cafe Reverie and most of the Inner Richmond are indeed WiFi
"hot spots." A good walking tour of SF would include a stroll up Haight Street
starting at the Fillmore. Walk slowly while immersing yourself in the rare
natural beauty of your surroundings. Take your time. It's unlikely you will
make it up the hill without being approached by a half dozen startlingly
gorgeous people, but once you do, head over to Cole Valley to recharge your
spirits and check your email in the courtyard at Reverie.

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pj
It's funny that this article is on WSJ, owned by NewsCorp, which just said it
is going to start charging for access to its online content.

~~~
cwan
I think the WSJ and Barrons are currently the only two papers in its portfolio
that they already charge for content. The WSJ has at least been quite
successful at selling online subscriptions.

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figital
What happens when everyone has an 8 hour netbook battery and a 5G hookup?

~~~
conorgil145
I think they also need to worry about the growing popularity of smaller
devices like the iPhone and, like you mentioned, netbooks rather than laptops.
Someone could sit in the shop for hours and use the wifi to watch a streaming
movie on their iPhone/netbook and take up a seat. It is only one seat, but if
they aren't buying anything it could hurt business.

It is reasonable to ban laptops and other devices from a store during lunch
time because of the huge wave of customers, but they should be allowed once
the big wave dies back down. Late night coffee shop studying is really
popular, especially in college towns.

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callmeed
_"It is reasonable to ban laptops and other devices from a store during lunch
time because of the huge wave of customers"_

But it's okay for someone to sit there and read the Wall St Journal that a
previous customer left behind?

Plus, if we're talking about coffee shops, why lunch time? At all the coffee
shops I've ever frequented (granted, not in large metros), the busiest time is
between 7:30 and 10am when everyone is getting their coffee ...

Finally, I tend to think places like coffee shops do better and gain
popularity when they _look busy_. If a coffee shop is full or near full, other
people notice that ...

~~~
conorgil145
Now that you point it out I also consider a "coffee shop" to be like a
starbucks or something and might not be as affected by this.

Eateries like Panera Bread and Cosi (who offer free wifi) should be more
worried about non-paying users taking up seats during afternoon lunch hours.
Also, good point about someone reading the paper. The problem is nonpaying
customers spending hours on end, taking up seats that paying customers could
use, regardless of what they are doing.

Maybe they could charge you like a coffee an hour or something.

