
Intermittent fasting: No advantage over conventional weight loss diets - AndrewDucker
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/11/181126115842.htm
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tonystubblebine
This reminds me of a study we ran at Lift/Coach.me a few years ago where we
randomly assigned 12,000 people into popular diets. I was hoping we'd be able
to pick a winner, but all of the diets led to weight loss and all had a result
within the same margin of error (and yes, there was a control group). So
basically, all the diets worked equally.

The only strong signal we got was that people who were giving up soda were the
most likely to lose the most weight. The cynic in me feels like we're writing
giant book-length stories that are just cover to get people to reduce their
sugar intake.

As I read more of the research, I'm coming to the opinion that our framework
for thinking about weight loss is wrong. We mostly talk about rules, and I
think we should be talking about levers.

You want to pull the levers that cause your body to burn fat while avoiding
the levers that cause your body to store fat. That's subtlely but importantly
different than calories in < calories out. Your levers include fasting, going
Keto, even extreme exercise (most studies against exercise stop at 60 or 90
minutes, but try doing a backpacking trip or other 5hour+ routine).

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ars
> The cynic in me feels like we're writing giant book-length stories that are
> just cover to get people to reduce their sugar intake.

I feel that's factual, not cynical. That's exactly what all the different
weird diets that people love to make fun of do: Convince people in all sorts
of ways to eat less.

All the rules and whatever of the diet have just the one goal.

We should stop evaluating diet plans based on weight loss (since they are all
basically the same), and instead evaluate them based on compliance.

~~~
pfranz
I've always suggested people find one that works for them. My father in law
loves competition and numbers, so Weight Watchers lets him accumulate points.
My wife hates cheat days and they don't really have the intended effect on
her. She's also fine eating the same thing almost every day. A lot of the fad
diets are fairly similar in that they're low-carb and reduce sugar; Atkins,
South Beach, Keto, Whole30.

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ohthehugemanate
As others have pointed out, the weight loss of any caloric deficit diet is
more or less identical. The stuff that's impressive about intermittent fasting
is the other benefits we've seen in (still early!) studies. Insulin
resistance, blood glucose, cholesterol, and overall metabolic profile,
obesity, and diabetes risk. Most of this comes from rodent or animal studies.
The precise definition of "intermittent" varies from study to study, and there
are a lot of other variables going on. But it is legitimately interesting
science.

But afaik no one says it's particularly better at weight loss than other kinds
of caloric restriction.

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bitxbitxbitcoin
Exactly! Though it sounds a bit paradoxical when written out - walking around
with less weight is just one of the healthy things that happens when you lose
weight.

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cnahr
Completely missing the point. Of course calorie reduction works _as long as it
is followed_. But people have a very strong desire to regularly eat their
fill. With intermittent fasting this is part of the diet by design. With daily
calorie restriction it’s impossible. Compliance with daily calorie restriction
always lapses over time for this reason, so people return to their former
fatness. Intermittent fasting is possible to maintain for the rest of your
life, daily calorie restriction usually is not.

~~~
hondo77
> With daily calorie restriction it’s impossible.

May be impossible for _you_. Doesn't mean it's impossible for, say, _me_ (and
it, demonstrably, isn't).

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wnissen
90% fail within a year. That's not even really long term yet. I think the
5-year numbers are 95%. Depends on your definition of impossible, but...

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NikolaeVarius
That's not impossible. That's just people have terrible willpower

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SpikeDad
And this is why dietary science fails often. Because of the insistence that
dieting is a matter of willpower whatever that means.

Lots of real research needs to be done on why people eat unhealthy even though
logically they know it's bad for them.

And unless you're someone who's lots a significant amount of weight, changed
your eating habits over a long time person and have maintained that you don't
really have any standing to make such statements.

~~~
NikolaeVarius
I've lost over 120 pounds (290-170) over the course of 1.5 years simply by
intermittent fasting. I changed nothing about what I ate, just ate less of it.

I still get cravings. But I control myself.

I think I have plenty of standing. When I was fat, I had no willpower and ate
constantly. Now, its all about controlling myself.

~~~
gremlinsinc
that's pretty amazing... I've been trying to do IF but got off it for a few
weeks... I also do keto on top of that though... I've lost 65 pounds since
September, but that puts me at 450, my goal is 50 more by the end of January
when my 2nd child is born and to be under 400.... (first time since before I
was 15 - I'm 39 now).

My highest weight was 690, I had VSG surgery, so it's a little easier once I
get into keto to keep going, as long as I don't stray into sugar land I don't
usually have desire for food... I can easily eat 500 calories/day when
intermittent fasting and feel like that's plenty... I've also been doing
Crossfit 3-4 times per week.

I like IF because I only have to prepare one meal, and forget about food the
rest of the day and just worry about my workout, and my day job.

~~~
Omnius
You are only eating 500 calories a day? That seems really low but i am not an
expert.

~~~
gremlinsinc
I was for a couple weeks... I had no hunger... had to add protein drinks
during the day to get my protein in (at least 60g/daily). I'm trying to get
back into it..lately.. I've been just trying to eat between 2/8 and not really
care what I eat just try small portions and only till I'm 3/4th full.

Sunday, I started keto again though... and hopefully my appetite diminishes
again... got a little lax around my birthday/thanksgiving.

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ravenstine
I don't ever hear proponents of intermittent fasting talking about weight
loss, but of _maintaining weight_ and for longevity. This article doesn't
speak of the touted benefits IF has on telomere length, so I'm not sure how
seriously I can take it.

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a0-prw
The ICR group reduced their energy intake by 75%, 2 days a week. Hardly real
fasting, is it? And also, ..

"Log_e relative weight change over the intervention phase was −7.1% ± 0.7%
(mean ± SEM) with ICR, −5.2% ± 0.6% with CCR, and −3.3% ± 0.6% with the
control regimen (Poverall < 0.001, PICR vs. CCR = 0.053)."

So the difference on average between the ICR group and the CCR group was as
great as the difference between the CCR and the control group.

Seems pretty clearly superior despite not being real fasting.

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baal80spam
Summary: Intermittent fasting helps lose weight and promotes health. However,
it is not superior to conventional calorie restriction diets, scientists have
found out in the largest investigation on intermittent fasting to date. The
scientists conclude that there are many paths leading to a healthier weight.
Everybody must find a diet plan that fits them best and then just do it!

In other news: water is wet.

~~~
jobigoud
It is superior if you take into account human psychology and the fact that we
have unlimited supply of food.

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jmvoodoo
My experience with intermittent fasting is that it was superior if you wanted
to change body composition. I used it to reduce body fat while increasing lean
mass (results confirmed via DEXA scan). I suppose it's probably possible to do
that without intermittent fasting but I wasn't able to do it.

~~~
P_I_Staker
Did you run a controlled study? Body builders have sworn by "precision
nutrition" for years, which is basically the opposite of IF. This kind of
anecdotal "evidence" is very problematic. Could be that both "worked" and your
composition improved over time, due to better fitness regimen.

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loourr
This study is totally missing the point. Intermittent fasting is not about
weight loss. It's about trying to mimic bodily processes that result from
fasted states that have been observed to lengthen lifespan.

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newnewpdro
I thought the most significant claim for intermittent fasting is the anti-
aging effects through autophagy, not just weight control.

The study seems entirely focused on bodyfat.

~~~
Omnius
IF when discussed usually means fasting daily. So maybe your food window is
only between 4 - 8 pm. The anti-aging stuff you saw/read (if its the same that
i did) was more about actual fasting where you might not eat everyday and here
they did find some linkage to aging.

~~~
newnewpdro
I am under the impression that IF usually refers to the now popular (thanks
BBC) 5:2 schedule. This is the context I've most seen/read about the topic,
which often includes the talk of anti-aging and autophagy.

But this is all very muddy waters since it's fad diet territory and
unscientific claims abound.

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everdrive
Incorrect, it feels awesome whereas traditional diets do not feel awesome.

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bigmit37
I thought intermittent fasting was better for insulin resistance. I can’t read
the article right now but was this disproven?

~~~
pard68
It wasn't covered. The article only covered weight loss.

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virtuallynathan
I really enjoy intermittent fasting, over the past 265 days I've spent 4655
hours (193 days) fasted. 235 of those days >15h, 190 >16h, and 60 >20h.

I now eat a single meal per day, and aim for some notion of nutrient density.
I'm almost never hungry, and my body composition has never been better.

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solidrake
I've tried IF before and was very similar to caloric restriction. Many people
point out the point that a diet has to be followed and when you fall thru, you
will gain the weight back all over again. Imho, IF is easier to do than
conventional diets.

~~~
P_I_Staker
It definitely can be. For me, I don't get hungry until late morning, and can
usually hold off until lunch. I only really feel the need to eat 400-800 cal
during the day, which is around 30% of my daily needs (depending on exercise
and goal number)

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hippich
When I was experimenting with my Clicker Diet (shameless plug -
[https://clickerdiet.com/](https://clickerdiet.com/)) I found it is much
easier to not eat in the morning/lunch times, to stay under daily target. It
is intermittent fasting per se, but the reason, I believe, it worked for me -
it helped me to stay under target, not because it made me burn more fat.

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jhowell
I IF because I get pretty sleepy during the day if I eat.

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black-tea
Of course there isn't a difference between a calorific deficit with and
without intermittent fasting. That's not the point at all. The point is it may
be easier to adhere to than regular caloric restriction. A secondary point may
be that it's overall healthier to fast.

~~~
vosper
This is certainly my experience - I've found it much easier to fast 18 hours
per day (a bit less on the weekends) than to try to adhere to a caloric
restriction over a full day. I think that for me it requires less willpower to
have fixed start and end times for eating.

~~~
mixmastamyk
The blood sugar spike and trough (from eating recently) is what makes you feel
hungry. So avoiding that can make it easier to eat less.

