
Gavin Newsom Declares California a ‘Nation-State’ - Elof
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-04-09/california-declares-independence-from-trump-s-coronavirus-plans
======
WalterBright
I don't see any reason why state governors should sit around waiting for the
federal government to provide masks and order emergency actions. The governors
are empowered to do those things, and it's their job to do so.

In fact, California used to have a huge stockpile of medical supplies, put in
place by Arnold (a Republican). It was abandoned under the Democratic
Governors, and disposed of.

Edit: found the cite

[https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-27/coronavi...](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-27/coronavirus-
california-mobile-hospitals-ventilators)

~~~
Saaster
Because it makes literally no sense for 50 states to compete and outbid each
other for a scarce set of resources when you already have an umbrella
organization, the Federal government, that could coordinate the purchases and
the allocation as not every state is hitting the peak at the same time. But
it's seemingly every state for themselves instead. A complete failure and lack
of leadership and shirking of responsibility from the Federal government,
directly contributing to a loss of American lives.

~~~
WalterBright
Washington State currently has surplus medical capacity and has been packaging
it up and shipping it to states who need it.

If the governor of your state is doing nothing while blaming the federal,
that's a problem with your governor. As I said, they have the power to do
these things, and the responsibility to.

~~~
bjtitus
Doesn't really absolve the federal government in any way. The United States
has a Federal Emergency Management Agency which historically has stepped up to
the plate during these types of situations.

In what way is this case different?

There are plenty of cases where states have been trying to follow the approach
you suggest and have had their orders seized by the federal government. It
seems like it's still quite unclear which approach states are supposed to
follow so it seems perfectly reasonable for governors to be pointing fingers
where the blame lies.

Colorado: [https://www.denverpost.com/2020/04/04/coronavirus-
colorado-p...](https://www.denverpost.com/2020/04/04/coronavirus-colorado-
polis-ventilators-fema/)

Los Angeles:
[https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-04-07/hospitals-...](https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-04-07/hospitals-
washington-seize-coronavirus-supplies)

New Jersey: [https://www.newjerseyhills.com/echoes-
sentinel/news/somerset...](https://www.newjerseyhills.com/echoes-
sentinel/news/somerset-county-ordered-35-000-medical-masks-the-federal-
government-seized-the-whole-
order/article_97ad57a6-004c-53c8-8451-e85a124d35ba.html)

Broader piece:
[https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/us/politics/coronavirus-f...](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/us/politics/coronavirus-
fema-medical-supplies.html)

~~~
WalterBright
If you want the feds to supply masks, they have to get them from somewhere.
Furthermore, if you want the feds to supply masks, you'll get them at the
discretion of the feds, not local authorities.

You're seeing what's wrong with centralized planning of things that don't need
to be centralized.

~~~
foogazi
> If you want the feds to supply masks, they have to get them from somewhere.

Just like the states, or counties or towns or households...

Except the federal government can order private businesses to manufacture
whatever it needs, something no governor can do

~~~
WalterBright
> something no governor can do

The idea the governor of a $222 billion budget can't get some masks made is a
bit absurd.

~~~
foogazi
> The idea the governor of a $222 billion budget can’t get some masks is a bit
> absurd

The federal government just passed a $2 trillion stimulus package. And they’re
thinking of doing another one.

And in addition to the power to print money, it can also order private
industries to manufacture masks, tests, vaccines, ventilators, even tp

And it still can’t get the job done.

There are not enough masks or tests

~~~
WalterBright
> There are not enough masks or tests

[https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/22/21189881/apple-
donating-m...](https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/22/21189881/apple-donating-
masks-amazon-bezos-cook-coronavirus)

Maybe Tim Cook should run for Governor. Cook knows how to get stuff done, and
he has no legal powers whatsoever compared to the Governor.

------
unlinked_dll
Governor Newsom refers to California as a "nation state" about once a week, in
case the author was wondering. He's used that language quite often.

I'm totally ok with it, so long as the Federal government remains impotent and
balks at California's efforts to manage itself, while simultaneously being run
by the party of "states rights." Purely in spite of the lack of leadership and
outright derision for our needs as a state, regardless of being home to over a
tenth of the population and being our breadbasket and technological power
house.

I know not all Californians agree on everything, but I think we can all come
together and recognize that we do have to look out for our state as if it was
an independent nation these days. Because the Feds aren't going to help us
when we need it, just tax us and tell us we can't have proportional
representation.

~~~
jackfoxy
California has proportional representation in the House of Representatives.

California used to have proportional and geographic representation internally
in a bicameral state legislature. Then came the Supreme Court's one man one
vote ruling. Now southern California has pure proportional representation and
gets all the fresh water it demands from northern California, environmental
concerns be damned.

Be careful what you wish for.

~~~
angryasian
this isn't true. Since the house has been capped, it hasn't grown or hasn't
been redistributed based on population changes. A person in Wymoing has more
representation than a person in California.

~~~
unlinked_dll
No, they're right. We have 53/435 (12.18%) of the House, which is roughly
equal to our proportion of the total population (40mm/330mm, 12.12%, numbers
will change with the census).

The "at least one" rep has a bigger impact on some of the medium/small size
states. My point was more on the senate/electoral college.

------
exabrial
This makes happy... because this is how things _are supposed to work_ in a
Republic. Power was never supposed to be concentrated heavily at the Federal
level. It's much easier to kick policies you don't like at state levels and
not be ruled by people in physically/culturally distant areas.

~~~
Nerdfest
This is not power. This is aid, planning, money, and ideally to show some
semblance of leadership.

~~~
fennecfoxen
We have governors declaring they will seize medical equipment from its owners.
We have mayors of major cities advocating for us to conscript medical
personnel via the Selective Service. We have the President invoking the
Defense Production Act and telling private companies to manufacture goods. We
have governors and mayors and county-level medical officials across the nation
outlawing religious services and declaring that it is _illegal_ for people to
_leave their homes_ except under a list of officially approved circumstances.

Behold, the power.

~~~
exabrial
I'd rather take on the commanding force [guard] of a US state than the federal
government of the US. Again, it was designed this way intentionally.

------
lasky
this kind of "journalism" makes me sad.

In my view it's plainly an attempt to scratch an itch to validate our
disappointment with the lack of empathy we see in GOP politics; but instead of
expressing that, the author stokes hate and "other-ness" and encourages people
to interpret words people say as evidence for their visions of extreme
separatist versions of the future... which further breads more lack of empathy
in others, and the spiral continues.

Fear mongering and visions of separatism exist on both sides of the party
lines.

------
vearwhershuh
The best thing that could happen to the United States would be an amicable
divorce.

It is ridiculous to have national elections matter so much at the local level
and come down to a few counties in a few contested states, remote from the
vast majority of citizens.

Edit: It's heartening to see all the principled federalism and subsidiarity
here in the HN comments. I'm sure it would be the same if a Democrat were in
office and a Republican governer were talking this way, no?

~~~
lonelappde
A small nation has less coordinated power and would get walked over by USSR
and China.

If the US was 50 small nations in WWII, Hitler more likely would have won.

~~~
gremlinsinc
France, Germany, etc all have their own armies but are part of the EU, and
United Nations.

The states could be more like that.. a loose federation that only comes
together in times of war but other than that the state decides their own
constitutions, etc..and have their own presidents/etc..

------
andbberger
I've always liked the idea of flipping the tax situation so states keep the
vast majority and the feds get peanuts - attacks the root of federal power.

How could CA accomplish that? I guess we need our own tax collection agency?

~~~
maxerickson
It would have to attempt to withdraw from the United States.

~~~
pmart123
No. People would just have to vote politicians in that support more power at
the state level. This has happened throughout US history.

Secession is unconstitutional, and no state has a military. In fact, the US
military would already be there (and most troops stationed there likely
wouldn't be from that state).

~~~
maxerickson
"attempt"

I'm going to repeat my point, and try to expand a bit, to maybe make it
clearer. To unilaterally change where taxes go, California would have to
attempt to withdraw from the United States. There's no other mechanism for a
state to directly reduce their federal tax burden.

Sure, people across the country could elect federal officials that were
committed to reducing the importance of the federal government, but then it
isn't _California_ doing it, it's the whole US doing it.

~~~
pmart123
Cities and also states will be in a precarious financial situation after this.
There is a danger this allows for the federal government to exert further
power and control. Since history often rhymes:

[https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/07/four-
ti...](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/07/four-times-the-
government-held-highway-funding-hostage/454167/)

Rather than a single state attempting to withdraw, it would likely have to be
a coalition of states acting upon a unified effort for increased state rights.
If representatives in NY/Tri-state, CA, IL, MA, etc. acted in unison, it would
likely be more effective.

------
nojvek
Do states have the power to riot and say “we’re not going to pay federal
taxes, because well ... the federal government did fuck all and gave us the
middle finger when we most needed them”

The pandemic from the start when Trump saying “its only one person, we totally
have it in control” to the change of opinions on masks, to the lies really
feels like a shit show.

Yet he has massive support. It baffles my mind.

------
tgafpc2
Ok, bye! Been super fun!

------
AnimalMuppet
That's either poor wording, or treason (or insurrection, if you prefer).

~~~
CameronNemo
It is neither. A nation is a social construct, and the federal government is
just that: a federation (of states). Saying California is a nation-state is
perfectly legal and a reasonable position to have.

~~~
nordsieck
> the federal government is just that: a federation (of states).

Sure: initially, the US was initially imagined much closer to the current
European Union. That was a long time ago: a lot has changed.

> Saying California is a nation-state is perfectly legal and a reasonable
> position to have.

Not since the civil war it isn't.

~~~
CameronNemo
>a lot has changed

And a lot can change again. Last time the lines shifted seriously was the
great depression. Seems like crisis is a catalyst for shifts in power
structures...

>Not since the civil war it isn't.

Unless trump is planning on arresting governors brown and Newsom, along with
dozens of former and current California legislators, this is a toothless
threat.

California is a nation state. Think that is treason? Run up. 33.7166357,
-118.0594170

~~~
lonelappde
Saying that you can survive defying federal sovereignty doesn't prove that you
aren't defying federal sovereignty.

~~~
CameronNemo
Saying that a war defines what is legal or illegal implies that the letter of
the law is unimportant, only how the law is enforced.

------
redis_mlc
For those not familiar with US politics and culture, California is the the
most influential on both.

Trends that start in California go nationwide in about 5 years.

So take what Governor Newsom says very seriously - it's a crystal ball.

Historically, the Governor of the State of California also has an outsized
shot at being President. Reagan is one example, and the only reason The
Terminator didn't run is because of citizenship requirements (he was born in
Austria.)

You can bet President Newsom is in our future.

~~~
bydo
What? There’s been one US president who was previously governor of California
(Reagan) and one who unsuccessfully ran for governor (Nixon).

No other political candidate from California has even been nominated. We’ve
had seven presidents from Ohio.

