
Ask HN: Alternative careers for a developer - ilikekittens
I like making things but am considering giving up on being a developer. What other careers are there that use a similar skill set that you would recommend?<p>I'm considering architecture, industrial design, interaction design, etc<p>Reasons for giving up on software development:<p>1) I'm not very good at it.<p>2) I would prefer to make something physical and substantial I can show people. Screens don't impress any more.<p>3) I have RSI which means I can go for weeks without being able to use a computer.<p>Any suggestions?
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mechanical_fish
From what I've seen, architects go to school, really _arduous_ school, for
years, after which they continue to work constantly, much more than 40 hours
per week. I believe they get paid less than developers, have less job security
-- and, yes, sit at a computer all day.

But what do I know? All I can suggest is: Don't apply to design or
architecture school until you've talked with at least three working architects
or designers. Make sure you talk to at least one cynic.

~~~
wooUK
I was an architect student now turned developer. The thought processes are
very similar between the two disciplines however I personally find developing
more rewarding.

In architecture you are considered a 'young' architect if you are in your
fifties. That means you spend your best years designing underground drainage
systems (that nobody will see) or garage extensions for pittance and long
hours and minimal job security.

~~~
transburgh
this is the exact issue I saw as an intern at an architecture firm right
before I dropped out of it as a major

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santry
Having spent the last 15 years as a developer, I'm now working toward a career
as an opera singer (I'm a tenor).

Admittedly I find it difficult to identify many similarities between opera and
software development. People often make a connection between music and
mathematics, but for me the _non_ -mathematic aspects of opera are what I find
most attractive. The sheer thrill of dramatic expression through controlled
screaming is intoxicating. And instead of my work living unseen in the dark
recesses of a multi-tier architecture, I'm put, quite literally, center stage
and in the spotlight, with immediate feedback (applause or boos) and
recognition.

~~~
mg1313
Software development and filmmaking have may common points (the process)...and
that's why I'm considering switching to filmmaking....

~~~
tjpick
you might want to consider software development for the film industry.

------
ivyirwin
I am always surprised at the way in which architecture as a profession is
romanticized. I blame Mike Brady...

I went through the process of getting my Masters in Architecture. It is a long
and very arduous process and something you shouldn't do without being
passionate or dedicated to the discipline.

The crazy thing about it is that you will end up spending most (if not more
than you already do) of your time in front of the computer. Sure there is some
hand drawing and model making, but the industry is digital now, and working on
digital drawings, digital models, renderings, post processing takes so much
time – even though the transition to digital was supposed to speed up the
process...

And the other thing is the compensation. As people have pointed out,
architects don't make that much money (although that doesn't seem to be one of
your criterium).

With my degree I've become a design problem solver generalist. I work on
architecture problems, business problems, programming problems, whatever is of
interest to me – and hopefully that I can get paid for. In the past couple of
years, the greatest insight I've had into the difference between architecture
and software/web development is the time it takes to realize things.
Architecture is a very long process. You might be able to make a drawing
quickly, but getting it built will take a long time. A programming development
project might have a long development timeline, but there are so many
milestones that give instant gratification (i.e. enabling a new feature).

~~~
bmj
I know several people that are currently using their advanced architecture
degrees to:

1\. Sell baked goods 2\. Sell clothing

The job market, at least locally, ain't great.

------
matthewking
I went through a brief period where I was convinced I wanted to be a
carpenter, specifically making furniture. I've also worked as a builders mate
and roofer in the past both of which I enjoyed and all of which settle my
desire to create something. It seemed better to be building something that
actually existed in the real world, not just on the internet.

These days though I'm just trying to make enough money in the next few years
that I'll never have to sit at a desk again, and given my current skill set
and the general nature of the internet I think being a developer is the best
way to do it ;)

~~~
jagjit
I hear this very often - I am working at a job which I dont want to do till I
achieve a financial goal. For folks who know what they are passionate about, I
wonder if it is worth it in the long term to postpone following their dream.
Especially in a country like US or Uk, where standards of living are pretty
reasonable for most professions.

I for the most of my life did not even know what I really like - by the time I
figured out I was already 33. And it becomes very tough.

I know very few people who are convinced about what they want to do in life.
Such conviction almost seems like a privilege which comes with a duty to
follow your dream. Best of luck with your plans.

~~~
matthewking
Possibly a little deep for this thread (just considering its not my thread),
but my dream isn't a career change, its slightly higher - freedom from money.
If money no longer plays a factor in my life, then I don't have to choose
_one_ thing to do, I can do whatever I want when I want.

For me that's travel, adventure and photography (landscape, wildlife,
culture). There's two ways I can achieve my goal, make enough so that I don't
have to work again (I make it about £1.2m~), or failing that live cheaply
enough that money no longer plays a major factor in my life, i.e. I don't
spend most of my adult life paying off a mortgage. The plan for that would be
to buy a nice old, cheap yacht and live as frugally as I can whilst exploring
the world.

So either way hopefully within the next couple of years I'll be living my
dream.. id rather be "financially responsible" and do it, but I'm prepared to
make sacrifices if that's not possible within my given time frame. :)

~~~
jagjit
I totally agree. Being frugal and financially responsible is the right way to
live life anyways for so many reasons.

Just think you might find this useful (I have a feeling already that you are a
value investor but still feel compelled to add this) I would add intelligent
investing also to your plan and I feel you will reach your goals sooner. I
have benefited a lot from Benjamin Graham's formalization of value investing -
he wrote the classic "Intelligent Investor".

------
lssndrdn
You could try selling software. If you're a developer now, you should be able
to understand it and explain it to people. There are other skills involved in
sales (it's best to be extroverted and to enjoy talking to people).

But you'd be spending your time traveling and talking to people.

------
izak30
My Dad is an architect in a small town (40k pop) and services much of rural
south eastern ohio. He almost never sits at a computer during the day, and
most of his drafting is done by draftsmen on datacad.

I'd be happy to privately give you his e-mail to answer questions.

Here's what I know that might help: Because he's in a small town, working on
relatively small projects (typically under 1M), he often acts as an overseer
to the actual building process as well. He keeps boots and overalls in his
truck, and spends most of his time away from his desk. It's my understanding
that most architects in major metros, or at big firms are fairly disjointed
from the construction process.

The point is, you could be a developer without spending your time at a
computer (you could sell, manage, consult, or teach). You can be an architect
without drafting on autocad all day (choose your market/niche).

You could learn to be an industrial designer or process engineer, and then go
work in a production facility, or you could work in excel and CAD all day.

~~~
pradocchia
My mother is also an architect. She does historic renovations, mostly, and
still drafts by hand. She spends much of her time at jobs sites, talking to
clients/organizations, and researching period styles in actual books (!).

Of course, it takes a long time to develop a reputation for historic
architecture, and it is _very_ local unless you develop a national name
through the journals.

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pgbovine
I would suggest you start by reading the essay Shop Class as Soulcraft

[http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/shop-class-as-
sou...](http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/shop-class-as-soulcraft)

... and then read the entire (not very long) book, if you like the article. it
might give you a starting point for thinking about fulfilling careers that
don't involve sitting at a computer all day

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thenduks
I think you should continue writing software.

1) You say you aren't very good at it... In my experience that means you're
probably pretty good at it :)

2) Physical and substantial... well, it's easy to get disillusioned with some
enterprise app or something. Maybe you just need a change of scenery? Get into
web development or something else new to you.

3) I can sympathize with physical pain. Spend some serious mind-share learning
new tools that will help you get around this. Try xmonad, vim, or other tools
that keep your hands on the home-row. Take lots and lots of little breaks
(grab a coffee, stretch, etc).

My 2 cents.

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da5e
Somebody somewhere is doing your dream job as a bridge to doing their dream
job.

~~~
tjpick
you can't do what you want by doing something else.

~~~
wallflower
"Work might not necessarily make you happy but it may give you the means to do
the stuff that makes you happy"

------
halfabee
Designing/Laying out fire sprinkler systems:

<http://www.sprinklercareer.freewebsitehosting.com/>

Found from another site, good details:

Even now jobs are plentiful.

All it takes is two years at a community college at one of three community
colleges in the country.

Entry level average wage is low to mid $30's.

Average wage with three years job experience is mid $50's to mid $60's with
more available in larger metro areas. To give one example the average annual
wage for an entry level technician in Omaha, Nebraska is $36,784.32, with
$61,195.93 to someone with five years experience and $73,401.73 to senior
level (ten years) technicians.

The majority of companies are union companies and while technicians are
considered management most companies offer benefits such as medical, dental
and retirement plans.

This is not a pipe fitter or installer job. Installers are suffering
unemployment, 40% in some areas of the country, but unemployment does not
extend to the technicians.

The work is not physical with 75% to 95% of your time spent in an office
environment in front of a computer screen. The work is always challenging and
fun, it is not a boring job.

This job is different from about any other in the universe because once fully
certified (5 years) you don't get the boss and HR bullshit you hear about in
other places of employment because you are not easily replaced.

~~~
ilikekittens
That's an interesting suggestion, I would have never thought about that
myself.

------
loudtiger
I'm in sort of the same boat. Developing things and creating software is a
means to an end for me. Do I enjoy working for myself? Sure. More so than
working for the man. But in the end, it's also so that I can be free from the
ties of money.

One thing that I (and some of my other fellow CS graduates) have contemplated
is going into teaching. It can be rewarding to teach Math or CS at the local
high school, assuming your kids aren't too rowdy.

If you have an interest in photography, that could be a good break. I know
several wedding photographers who charge what I would consider a very generous
amount - they do a good job, and get tons of business. Personally, I've been
interested in photography for a long time, but I'm afraid that I'd start
hating it or getting bored of it if it becomes my job. Unfortunately, they
spend lots of time in front of the computer editing photos.

Have you thought about anything in the financial field? Data modeling, trends,
stuff like that?

~~~
petesalty
I was a developer (programmer, architect, team lead, CTO, etc.) for about 20
years before I decided to give it up and pursue photography as a career. I was
a studio photographer specializing in food. I did it for two years before
coming back to development.

Photography is a tough career choice. If you're doing commercial work expect
to be told exactly what to do (food is brutal this way - highly controlled).
Unless you're at the absolute top (think David LaChappell) people come to you
with ideas, expecting you to execute, and are rarely interested in your ideas.
You also need great post production skills, so lots of computer work, unless
you want to outsource this which is costly.

I've never done wedding photography but know a few and it's a tough business,
highly competitive, very stressful (think freaked out brides and mothers) and
very seasonal.

------
Ixiaus
Try systems administration. Setting up servers, monitoring networks, you even
get to do a _little_ bit of programming by writing scripts to manage common
tasks.

I think sys admins generally make more than developers do (unless you are an
upper tier programmer).

------
blackguardx
I am an electrical engineer and in the same boat as you. While being an
engineer can be rewarding, the sedentary aspects kill the reward. It is
physically draining.

To remedy the situation, I decided to get a Ph.D. and become a professor. I am
in my first year of grad school right now. While I know that professors have
to do a lot of paper writing and grant writing, most of their work isn't
necessarily computer related.

I am also thinking about going into semiconducting materials and devices
resarch, which entails a lot of lab work building novel electronic devices. My
previous dream was to be an IC designer, but I don't want to spend my life
running SPICE simulations.

~~~
bioweek
How did you get into a PHD program?

~~~
blackguardx
Last fall, I rushed to take the GREs and fill out all the applications. The
process of applying to grad school is extremely arduous, but you hopefully
only have to do it once.

------
jriddycuz
Consider becoming a tradesman or artisan of some kind. General construction
labor doesn't pay all that well, and is pretty boring, but if you have the
skills, specialty craftsmanship can be very lucrative and fun.

You can make physical things you can be proud of, and you don't have to use a
computer. Also, at some level, it is "design" work, because even if you don't
draw up the plans, you have to make decisions about how things fit best and
what works where, &c.

------
callmeed
What about professional photography? While the industry as a whole is
currently in flux, there are several technical aspects which often come
naturally to hackers/math types.

If you truly learn the craft and work hard at marketing, you can create
something of high value to others–be it art, helping other companies (through
commercial work), telling stories (journalism or editorial), or personal
(portraits/weddings).

------
Mz
Some years back, I had the epiphany that I wanted to "do something in the
built environment" career-wise. I went through some college catalogs, made a
list of all the majors related to the built environment and read what was
required to complete a degree in them. I eliminated Architecture off the bat
because you basically start from scratch with a degree in Architecture. None
of my existing credits would have meant squat. I eliminated civil engineering
because I had dropped out of calculus when I was 18 and they required lots of
calculus. I don't remember all the other degrees I considered. Ultimately, I
concluded I wanted a bachelor's in environmental resource management and a
master's in urban planning. Life got in the way, so I haven't finished my
bachelor's (though I did manage to work in a nifty certificate in GIS) but
perhaps the thought process I went through will help you.

Good luck with this.

------
webwright
Sales engineering or sales both pay really well and have a less technical
component.

I've REALLY enjoyed woodworking and home remodeling. Impressive output that
wows people, creative problem solving, etc.

Medical stuff isn't going anywhere, though you better like working with old
folks. Nursing is fairly approachable.

There are probably some areas of law that aren't repulsive.

------
falsestprophet

      Sales Engineer
      Construction site manager
      Military officer
      Field biologist
      Criminal investigator [1]
      Doctor, Nurse, PA
      Teacher
    

[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_agent>

------
replicatorblog
I am an art school grad, have been an industrial designer, UX/UI designer, and
have a lot of friends who are architects. Unless you are REALLY gifted
aesthetically. I wouldn't go through the time/expense of design school. You
could probably transition to UI design pretty easily. ID is an interesting
field, but largely shrinking. Look at the open req's at what were top ID firms
(Frog/Ideo/Continuum) Very few are doing much business designing things
compared to UI's or some mech-e work. As for the RSI, the average designer
spends a lot of time in the Adobe suite or a CAD package so it probably won't
help. That said if you are really passionate go for it.

Feel free to contact me if you want more info.

------
pavlov
I studied to be a film editor, but ended up as a developer. There's a
surprising similarity in the thought processes and trade-offs involved in
editing and coding. In both cases, you're in charge of building up a coherent
microcosm using a constrained set of intellectual raw material that was
created by someone else, whose goals you may or may not agree with.

Unfortunately film editing nowadays involves mostly sitting at a computer
(unless you're an oldschool star editor who can demand a Steenbeck flatbed
editor and real tangible film).

------
sganesh
If you're in the US, you can become a foreign service officer as they need a
lot of information technology people in different areas. If you're interested
in living in different parts of the world, this would be a good career path.

<http://careers.state.gov/officer/index.html>
<http://careers.state.gov/specialist/employment.html#IMS>

------
vaksel
nowadays pretty much any white collar job you do, will involve sitting at a
computer all day.

~~~
dschobel
Including the architecture and design jobs he listed.

I guess if he really hates computers he could be a manager and spend his days
in meetings.

~~~
ilikekittens
It's not a matter of hating computers but of being unable to use them much. I
have RSI and can go for periods of weeks/months of being unable to type.

~~~
nileshk
What helped me completely cure my wrist pain was reading "The Mindbody
Prescription" by Dr John E Sarno. I was in a similar position and was
considering a career change. I took over a year off of work to try and recover
(eventually coming back to work part time). Once I read this book and applied
it, I was able to immediately recover. It's been about 7 years now since.

The ideas it presents are definitely not mainstream. But it is fairly logical
and scientific. There are plenty of other sources that talk about the
connection between the mind and the body, but I've never seen anything present
it in such a way that makes sense to me and gives ideas of how to directly
apply it.

I'm not that great at explaining it in a nutshell. The wikipedia page seems to
have some decent info:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tension_myositis_syndrome>

But the best summary I've read is this word doc:
<http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/handout.doc> (hit the Google cache for HTML
version)

------
psyklic
This has just as much substance as someone posting "What should I go into in
college? I'm good at math."

It's hard to choose, but careers aren't like funnels where everyone who would
enjoy software development would be a great architect!

------
dan_sim
What else can you do? In my opinion, it would be a bad idea to do something
that requires the same skills than a developer. If you can cook, why not be a
chef? If you can play music, why not be a musician?

------
jsteele
As a veteran developer, I too was hit by RSI, and strongly urge you to first
start using speech recognition for dictating all of your e-mail messages, code
comments, documentation, etc.

------
arethuza
I was actually thinking about doing a degree in geology just for the fun of it
- then I saw what petroleum geologists get paid!

~~~
jsteele
Too low, or high enough to prompt you to join the profession?

------
JohnFritzen
Become a cobbler.

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ilikekittens
Thank you everyone for your kind advice and suggestions

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jcapote
Become a mechanic; That's what I would do anyway...

------
johnmw
Have you considered working in a pet store?

------
lhorie
How about carpentry?

