
Donald Trump suggests delay to 2020 US presidential election - sjcsjc
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53597975
======
Balgair
Guys, this is a distraction.

GDP numbers fell off a cliff this morning [0], about 30 min after that tweet.
Donny knows that any chance he had at the election was tied to the economy,
which due largely to covid19, is in shambles. His scare tactics of brown
people rioting near white suburbs are not working. His poll numbers haven't
really moved for two weeks of a small bit of Portland's PTAs being teargassed.
He continues to refuse to do much else but buck-passing and chloroquine for
the pandemic. Joe hasn't ramped up campaigning yet. Donny is still ~8% down
nationally and ~6% down in Florida [1]. He has troubles with ramps now.

Expect more of these kinds of things to occur as the days tick down to the
election.

[0] [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-30/u-s-
econo...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-30/u-s-economy-
shrinks-at-record-32-9-pace-in-second-quarter?sref=vuYGislZ)

[1] [https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-
general...](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-
general/florida/)

~~~
perl4ever
You're saying what everyone else is saying, it's a distraction, or they're
also saying that he is setting up an excuse for losing.

What I don't see people saying that's a lot more scary - if he expects to win
illicitly, getting his opponents to declare the election won't be corrupt is
_exactly_ how to make sure it sticks.

~~~
Simulacra
What gives you the impression he expects to win illicitly? Something other
than the russian hoax narrative.

~~~
xbmcuser
After 4 years can't you tell he won't be able to accept any kind of defeat.
From his lies about his inauguration crowds on his first day in office when
have you seen him accept any thing gracefully. He is what he is but I
personally feel the Republicans are worse to stay in power they have let him
destroy their own country and it's institutions.

------
wjp3
Elections still happened during the U.S. Civil War and both World Wars.

Also - can’t have the election because of pandemic, but can have schools
reopen?

~~~
CompanionCuuube
> Elections still happened during the U.S. Civil War and both World Wars.

Did they close down schools for that? Did they hold elections during the 1918
Pandemic?

Let's have an honest comparison here.

~~~
jjjensen90
Yes, there was a midterm held in 1918.

------
castratikron
Even if the election were delayed or cancelled, he was still elected to a 4
year term. The term doesn't extend indefinitely just because there wasn't an
election. Directly from the Constitution, "The terms of the President and Vice
President shall end at noon on the 20th day of January". It's actually very
specific about when the term ends.

~~~
mcphage
> It's actually very specific about when the term ends.

And then what?

~~~
koheripbal
Let's be realistic - the election happens regardless of what the President
wants.

For obvious reasons, he does not control the election.

...but for the sake of argument, if a comet hit the Earth and cancelled the
election, then the terms of both the President and the Vice President would
end, and the Leader of the Senate would become the President.

~~~
mcphage
Hmm, if it's just by the order of succession, I thought that the Speaker of
the House was 3rd?

~~~
psadauskas
The Speaker of the House's term expires every two years, as well, so we
wouldn't have one of those, either.

~~~
dllthomas
The Speaker for the House doesn't need to be a member of Congress (though
always has been). It's not clear to me that we would not have a Speaker.

------
hprotagonist
Acts of the 28th congress of the united states, passed at the second session
which was begun and held in ... 1844:

 _Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United
States of America in Congress assembled,

That the electors of the President and the Vice President shall be appointed
in each State on the Tuesday next after the first Monday in the month of
November of the year in which they are to be appointed;_

Translation: get fucked.

~~~
jbob2000
Trump response: I’m going to disobey this and you’re going to take me to
court. Oh which court is that? The Supreme Court? The one that is stacked in
my favour? Oh that’s nice.

~~~
voisin
I think this is a crass way of looking at it. Just because Trump is looking to
subvert long held values as well as explicit law doesn’t mean everyone in
power will be complicit in the subversion.

~~~
jbob2000
Perhaps you missed where the house impeached Trump and the senate fully
acquitted him. The Republican party have shown that they are fully onboard
with everything Trump is doing. Everyone in power absolutely is and will be
complicit.

~~~
voisin
I think that example is more than a small step away from undermining the
constitution via delaying or cancelling an election in order to stay in power.
The Democrats did the same thing with Clinton’s impeachment. It’s politics for
optics. Not destroying the foundations of government because one guy doesn’t
like his odds of winning.

------
psychometry
Here's today's daily distraction from this embodied failure of pandemic
leadership!

------
allsystemsgo
I’m probably in the minority but I don’t believe this should not be on HN.

~~~
djsumdog
It really shouldn't. It's just meant to inflame. There's no legal basis for
postponing an election. As others have pointed out, it'd require acts of
congress, and possibly also changes to the constitution. It's pretty silly at
this point.

Trump infuriates everyone with bombastic statements, that he often can't even
implement legally, that sometimes grab members of his base.

On top of that, other presidents have made crazier statements, but with him
they're turned up to 11.

There was talk of "Continuance of Government" with the Bush/Cheney era and
fear he'd try to stay in past two terms. Nothing ever happened though. This is
pure fluff.

I don't hate Trump or Trump supporters like a lot of people, but he just needs
to shut up. He does nothing to calm the America people, he just gives everyone
fuel to scream and more than anything, this is a big nothing burger. It's not
tech news. It's not even good pol news. I will probably drop off the HN front
page in an hour or less.

~~~
Ancapistani
> Trump infuriates everyone with bombastic statements, that he often can't
> even implement legally, that sometimes grab members of his base.

That reminds me of something that I've often thought - the Left seems to think
that Trump's crazy statements are intended to gain support for his base. They
don't; the vast majority of Trump voters also think what he says is nuts most
of the time.

I don't know anyone that voted for Trump because they agree with what he says.
I know lots of people who voted for him because of what the other side has
said and done in response to what Trump says.

That's why Trump voters by and large hand-wave away any criticism of his
statements. They don't expect them to be reasonable in the first place, and
the believe their purpose is to get the left to speak and act. They _do_
believe the left is earnest in what they're saying.

~~~
CompanionCuuube
That's a very interesting perspective that would explain a lot of behavior.

------
raldi
If we delay the election, which as the article says would require an act of
congress, the constitution still requires the presidential and VP terms to end
on Jan 20, and congress can't change that.

I'm no constitutional scholar, but I'm pretty sure that would make Speaker of
the House Nancy Pelosi president.

~~~
vsareto
This is what everyone's been saying, but they're trying to counter with
written rules to a President that really doesn't respect them. Enforcement
matters here.

Until you see Pelosi with enforcement backing her and willing to remove Trump
from office on Jan 20th, the result is uncertain.

~~~
koheripbal
The US Military has already said that if needed, they will escort Trump out of
the White House on the last day of his Presidency.

They swear an oath to the Constitution before all.

~~~
dekhn
This. The federal apparatus will happily remove Trump from the White House,
Jan 20. If they didn't, that would literally be justification for national
protests and government toppling.

~~~
vsareto
> that would literally be justification for national protests and government
> toppling.

Sorry, I wouldn't count on that any more.

Plain-clothed officers picked people off the street in Portland and put them
into unmarked vans. If that isn't the spark that caused protests and toppling,
I don't believe that side has anyone to do the actual toppling. So who's going
to rise up against Trump staying in office?

------
rich_sasha
Taking no partisan side (I’m not even American!), it may be a good idea.

Poland held an election during the pandemic, and frankly it was a shitshow.
The problem was kind of opposite actually: legally it should have been
delayed, but powers that be wanted it to happen.

Getting remote voting ready in time didn’t happen, many people struggled to
vote in person, campaigns were affected, accusations of electoral fraud are
rife, among other problems.

Maybe best solve one problem at a time.

~~~
orloffm
Well, 70% turnout isn't really "many people struggled".

------
jungletime
Since all the churches are now empty. Why not use them to setup voting
stations, and let people precast their vote.

Whats wrong with dropping a paper ballot dropped into a sealed clear Acrylic
box.

~~~
Simulacra
Many churches are used for elections, which has been fought in the past IIRC.
As for paper ballot, just look at the dnc talking points on why mail in
ballots is the only solution.

------
maxaht
Ulterior motives aside, Trump alone does not have the power to postpone
Election Day.

It has been a fixed day since 1845, set by federal law, which means that any
alteration would require legislation passed by Congress. This would be next to
impossible given the current composition of the House.

------
IfOnlyYouKnew
This has absolutely no chance of happening and is just a giant admission of
fear and weakness.

------
jaspax
This controversy is dumb.

Trump made some silly tweets. Trump tweets _tons_ of silly things, almost none
of which ever happen, because Trump on Twitter is self-promotion and
performance, not actual policy or power-building. It's fine to be upset by
this behavior, but pretending that this is some kind of serious attempt to
delay the election is just falling for the bait.

~~~
gryhwt36232
I think you're missing the point. Nobody thinks the election will actually be
delayed. What he appears to be doing is laying the groundwork to dispute the
results of the election. That alone is what's disturbing, and what we should
be discussing.

~~~
djsumdog
I didn't think about that. That is very valid.

We had this in 2000. I'm old enough to remember George W. Bush and Gore.
Remember, Bush wasn't elected the first time. That went to the Supreme Court.

------
jacknews
Seriously this does not belong on HN

But also, Mr Trump, STEP AWAY FROM THE LAUNCH CODES

~~~
timbit42
I think he's planning to hit the button before he walks out the door in a bid
to keep himself out of prison.

------
save_ferris
To the mods,

You do a great job at keeping a civil and respectful community here on HN. One
of the main ways you do it is by restricting controversial stories like this
to prevent flame wars.

While I respect your decision to do, and I don't pretend to know what it must
be like to moderate any kind of online forum, I ask that this story stay up
for the sole reason that we're living in a time that is truly without
precedent. A sitting president calling for the delay of the election begins to
solidify many of our worst fears.

If we're not able to talk about it on the forums that are most rational and
civil, what hope do we have to achieve any kind of productive discourse on
this topic on the internet?

Please let this stay up so that the community can discuss this major moment in
American history.

~~~
sandworm101
I second that, but this is not the story for such exemption. This is a purely
partisan issue. This is a time for the supporters of side A to line up against
supporters of side B. Whoever has the most political capital wins. I see
little room for civil debate. There will be screaming.

~~~
tenuousemphasis
This is a time for anyone who believes in the principles upon which this
country was founded to speak up about a president who is increasingly hostile
to every one of those principles.

~~~
sandworm101
(the principles upon which this country was founded) Side A

(hostile to every one of those principles) Side B

We are beyond the rules. This is about changing rules. He with the most
massive/ardent/loudest/richest support base wins. Just please keep the
screaming of HN.

~~~
save_ferris
I agree with you. How do we get back to a place where political discourse is
de-escalated and we're not trying to out-shout each other?

~~~
djsumdog
Stop watching ABC/NBC/CNN/FOX/NPR and Democracy Now?

~~~
save_ferris
how is this a realistic solution if you're not able to persuade everyone to
stop following these outlets?

Look, I get that the media is driven by interests that aren't always aligned
with the public good, which can create an atmosphere of distrust. But simply
discouraging people from consuming media is like telling people to just stop
eating sugar.

We have an inherent desire to be informed about our leadership, but asking
people to stop watching isn't going to stop people who are already convinced
that their side/station/party is right and everyone else is wrong. If everyone
got your message to stop watching those networks, what would really change? I
don't think anything would.

~~~
Simulacra
But what is it we are really being asked to stop watching? The same
organizations that winked at each other on election night because they were
"with her" and in doing so were saving democracy from someone they saw as a
tyrant. The media has an agenda, and likely a bias, so to stop watching is to
stop being manipulated.

------
halfmatthalfcat
He has no authority to delay the election. The election(s) are ran by the
individual states which then send their results to Congress which are then
ratified.

Again, all talk and no walk with Trump.

------
llarsson
Quote from the article:

In a series of tweets, Mr Trump said "universal mail-in voting" would make
November's vote the "most inaccurate and fraudulent election in history" and a
"great embarrassment to the USA".

It seems to me like the embarrassment would be a vote counting system unable
to deal with mail-in votes, not that a country that is currently suffering a
lot due to a pandemic would use a no-contact way of handling votes. I thought
that mailing in votes was how e.g. servicemen typically vote, and they seem to
manage, even when their mail passes a lot of countries along the way (and
possibly hostile ones, at that!).

------
orloffm
This is an absolutely useless conversation. Of course the US election can be
postponed. If there is such a crisis and lots and lots of institutions are
struggling, why not do that? The argument that it is against constitution is
laughable. So many things are against constitution in the US right now
(surveillance, gun restrictions, huge government etc.) that fighting for this
particular issue doesn't make any sense. Obviously, the case is that Dems want
to do mail-in voting to ensure Biden wins. And yet the discussion as always
gets into tiny details that are completely irrelevant.

------
deflct2020
Distraction from the GDP numbers

It’s been brought up that doing so legally would mean changing laws and the
Dem House won’t be doing that.

Also the Constitution does not allow for the inauguration to be anything but
Jan 20. If there’s no decision by then there’s no president. I don’t see the
Senate or House enabling that.

This is generating noise to distract from economic headlines. The economy is
what Trump was riding on until COVID19.

~~~
tenuousemphasis
Since when has legality been a concern for this administration?

------
cjbenedikt
Why is this flagged? It is news distributed by one of the most trustworthy
media available today!

~~~
stunt
Because it's off topic
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

------
TeaDrunk
Genuine inquiry: Who has the authority and the history of stopping the current
administration from just doing things? Currently, the administration is
ignoring a decision from the supreme court [0], and congress has failed to
hold the administration on account of abuse of power and withholding promised
funds to other nations to broker deals for personal gains [1]. The attorney
general, head of law enforcement, has been accused of inconsistent enforcement
of the law regarding respecting civil liberties on behalf of the
administration (in the hearing, one politician noted that the attorney general
did not use military force against armed protestors against the shutdown
occupying government buildings, but did use military force against unarmed
protestors against police brutality).

So, genuinely, are there any parties that would or could prevent a delay if
the administration chooses to enforce such?

0\. [https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-07-16/trump-
refu...](https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-07-16/trump-refuses-new-
daca-supreme-court) 1\.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Donald_Trump](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Donald_Trump)

~~~
koheripbal
The US Military has already publicly said they will escort Trump out of the
White House if needed at the end of his term.

~~~
TeaDrunk
I see, neat! Could you link me to the claim?

~~~
evan_
possibly this interview with Biden where he says he _thinks_ the military
would do that:

[https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/11/politics/joe-biden-donald-
tru...](https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/11/politics/joe-biden-donald-trump-
military-white-house/index.html)

not really very convincing IMHO!

------
Traster
Not only should this not be on HN, but it's worth noting a delay needs to pass
congress where the Dems have a majority in the house of representatives.

~~~
nrclark
Our government is by-and-large unwilling to enforce what our current president
can and can't do. It really doesn't matter what the laws are if nobody
enforces them.

The current president has built a surprisingly large federal police force that
arrive in unmarked vehicles, display no insignia, and attack law-abiding
citizens based on the president's orders. Federal police have been deployed in
DC, Portland, Chicago, and Seattle.

This isn't a partisan issue, and it isn't fear-mongering. We keep being
surprised every time the president follows through on his statements, because
he says such absurd things.

I don't know what the way out is for us - but don't make the mistake of
assuming that laws will keep the president in check.

~~~
koheripbal
The US Military has said publicly that they would escort the President out of
the White House on his last day, if needed.

There is absolutely zero chance of drama.

This whole post is political fearmongering.

~~~
timbit42
Did they say that after Trump was elected or before?

------
_red
I know, lets pretend like we know nothing about fraud / security and say "vote
by mail" is a solution...

~~~
tylermac1
Oregon does vote-by-mail and it's been very successful.

~~~
dekhn
65% of ballots cast in California recently were mail-in.
[https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/historical-
absentee/](https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/historical-absentee/) That's 26
million votes or nearly 10% of the country.

