
Israel spied on John Kerry during peace effort – report - zvanness
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/03/israel-spied-kerry-peace-effort-report
======
zvanness
I'm most likley going to be down-voted into oblivion and called "anti-semetic"
even though i'm half semitc.

A really serious question, why is it our job to continue to support Israel?
They continue to humiliate John Kerry and Obama. It seems like a one sided
deal. We continue to give them whatever they want. And we get absolutely
nothing back in return.

\---

Edit: Hmm, I wonder why this post was shot down so fast.

~~~
dragontamer
Because we are getting things back in return. Israel is a nuclear state with
good relations with us. US has weapons contracts which help defend Israel...
one of the very very few countries that the US exports to. Culturally and
historically, the state of Israel was established by the Allies post WW2. So
there is a moral obligation as well for the Allies (US, France, UK, etc. etc.)
to watch out for what Israel does today.

Ultimately, Israel is a bastion for Western values in the middle east. They
take a lot of flak (suicide bombs, etc. etc.) that would be otherwise aimed at
Europeans or Americans. Its super-practical for the US to keep Israel strong.

Imagine if you will when ISIS establishes itself as a pseudo-country. Do you
think ISIS will be more concerned with Israel (who have a military within
marching distance), or with Europeans / Americans that they've sworn to
destroy half-way around the world? Who will they attack first?

Besides, if Israel falls, their nuclear stockpile will cause some major
issues.

~~~
digitalzombie
> Israel is a nuclear state

They've never confirm this, only that it is believe that Israel possess
nuclear weapons.

> Culturally and historically, the state of Israel was established by the
> Allies post WW2. So there is a moral obligation as well for the Allies (US,
> France, UK, etc. etc.) to watch out for what Israel does today.

There shouldn't be any morale obligation at all when they, the Jewish people
chose the spot to become Israel. We, USA, didn't assign it for them. US,
historically, didn't even care about Israel when they were attacked, the
British were the only one that really back them up. US ties between Israel are
more powerful later on, so this statement is false in term of morality.

> Ultimately, Israel is a bastion for Western values in the middle east.

And yet they are condemn by the majority in the UN except for USA veto.

> Do you think ISIS will be more concerned with Israel (who have a military
> within marching distance), or with Europeans / Americans that they've sworn
> to destroy half-way around the world? Who will they attack first?

Total fantasy. This fantasy is also fear mongering, in term of "what ifs".
Even if this fantasy come true, you don't think Nato or those US carriers that
are station nearby isn't going to bomb them like Korsovo?

And how smart are they to operate nuclear weapons? How long will it take them
to learn how to use it?

> Besides, if Israel falls, their nuclear stockpile will cause some major
> issues.

Once again fear mongering.

Let's look at it this way, they got nuclear weapon, so they got a free pass
for their horrible behavior against USA? The President and John Kerry?

~~~
dragontamer
I appreciate your serious response.

    
    
        Let's look at it this way, they got nuclear weapon, so they got a free pass for their horrible behavior against USA? The President and John Kerry?
    

It isn't horrible behavior. It is standard behavior that has been going on
since the dawn of Israel. We catch their spies all the time, and they catch
our spies all the time.

US / Israel relations are funny like that. We don't really trust each other,
but we both need each other.

~~~
nayefc
You don't need each other. All what Israel does is alienate the US and
protects Israel's horrific acts and occupation of the Palestinian people.

~~~
dragontamer
The way I see it, the US is currently using its influence to hold Israel back.
If it weren't for the US, Israel would have long ago already performed a
"first strike" against Iran.

Anyway, I think Israel's "occupation" of the Gaza strip technically ended in
2005. Gaza is the current location of conflict once again, because Hamas (not
"Palestine", but Hamas specifically) is using Gaza as a spring board to launch
rockets into Israel.

I understand Israel's point of view. Israel _gave up_ Gaza 9 years ago, and
the current conflict is the thanks that they get for leaving. Mind you, it is
Israel that supplies water, power, and utilities to the people in Gaza.

Furthermore, the "Palestinians" are hardly a group of unified people. They are
a divided, complicated group that have been proven difficult to reason with.
IE: Hamas does _not_ represent the typical Palestinians, and Israel seems to
understand that.

At very least, the Israel Electric Corp who are sending their engineers to fix
power lines to Gaza (while under rocket fire) are willing to work with the
people living within the Gaza strip.

Don't boil this discussion into a silly "Red vs Blue" fight. The politics of
this region are very complicated.

~~~
nayefc
You are mistaken on too many dimensions.

------
dragontamer
Spying and hacking is the bread and butter of foreign policy. This should come
as no surprise to anyone.

------
jonstewart
I'm shocked--shocked--that the Mossad would dare to spy on a foreign official.

~~~
popham
Reminds me of the little trichotomy I grabbed from Huizinga's Homo Ludens:
good-faith, cheater, xor spoil-sport. I don't think that cheating exists in
diplomacy. It's all part of the game. Counterintelligence what it is, I expect
that the intelligence was received by the Israelis with some skepticism.

------
gwern
Ah, normal telephone lines. No news here, then.

------
dominostars
Is this really relevant to Hacker News?

~~~
kaeluka
anything 'eavesdropping' is relevant here, I'd say

