
Renowned MIT Computer Scientist Richard Stallman Defends Epstein - taytus
https://www.thedailybeast.com/famed-mit-computer-scientist-richard-stallman-defends-epstein-victims-were-entirely-willing?
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voldacar
Such a hatchet job. He did not "defend Epstein" in the slightest.

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frittig
Original email from Stallman

The announcement of the Friday event does an injustice to Marvin Minsky:

“deceased AI ‘pioneer’ Marvin Minsky (who is accused of assaulting one of
Epstein’s victims [2])”

The injustice is in the word “assaulting”. The term “sexual assault” is so
vague and slippery that it facilitates accusation inflation: taking claims
that someone did X and leading people to think of it as Y, which is much worse
than X.

The accusation quoted is a clear example of inflation. The reference reports
the claim that Minsky had sex with one of Epstein’s harem. (See
[https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/9/20798900/marvin-minsky-
jef...](https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/9/20798900/marvin-minsky-jeffrey-
epstein-sex-trafficking-island-court-records-unsealed.)) Let’s presume that
was true (I see no reason to disbelieve it).

The word “assaulting” presumes that he applied force or violence, in some
unspecified way, but the article itself says no such thing. Only that they had
sex.

We can imagine many scenarios, but the most plausible scenario is that she
presented herself to him as entirely willing. Assuming she was being coerced
by Epstein, he would have had every reason to tell her to conceal that from
most of his associates.

I’ve concluded from various examples of accusation inflation that it is
absolutely wrong to use the term “sexual assault” in an accusation.

Whatever conduct you want to criticize, you should describe it with a specific
term that avoids moral vagueness about the nature of the criticism.

~~~
zzo38computer
I did not read the article he quotes, and cannot say whether "the most
plausible scenario is that she presented herself to him as entirely willing"
is true or false, but I agree that you should try to criticize it correctly;
if you do not know that it is assault, then perhaps "(who is accused of having
sex with one of Epstein's victims)" might be better. Depending on what a
article mentioning Minsky would be mainly about, though, such as parenthetical
comment might or might not be relevant, I think. In a biography it would be
relevant, but not as a parenthetical comment, I should think.

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SeeDave
This is an extremely provocative title which I hope the mods will swiftly
change and/or censure.

I often find myself thinking "Stallman was right!" when it comes to
FOSS/privacy but there is a zero-percent chance I will ever defend Epstein's
organized, systematic, and continuous abuse of children.

And shame on everyone who refers to him as a "disgraced financier" and his
victims as "underage women."

This isn't a pearl-clutching instance of "think of the children" so much as a
totally human response based on the litany of evidence that child abuse _ruins
lives_ (Google 'Borderline Personality Disorder')

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voldacar
Stallman did not defend any of Epstein's acts. He referred to Epstein as a
"serial rapist", just not a pedophile.

RMS is a very literal thinker and he lacks tact for sure, but a defender of
sexual predators he is not.

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floatingatoll
[https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9ke3ke/famed-computer-
sci...](https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9ke3ke/famed-computer-scientist-
richard-stallman-described-epstein-victims-as-entirely-willing)

The complete Stallman emails cited by this repost-seeming link are at the
above link.

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viig99
Woah, those are some extreme views,

Chafing at the idea of a legal age of consent was a favorite theme of his, per
his earlier blog posts. In 2003, he said, “I think that everyone age 14 or
above ought to take part in sex, though not indiscriminately. (Some people are
ready earlier.)”

In 2006, he said it wouldn’t so bad for an adult man who worked for the
Department of Homeland Security to have sex with a 14-year-old, as one
government employee had allegedly propositioned: “Supposing she had
voluntarily had sex with him, presuming that they used a condom and suitable
contraception, it would have done no harm to either of them.”

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equalunique
The view is relatively extreme because of constructed social norms, but when I
was 14, I had the same view, and it was shared among the peers that I
associated with. It would be hypocritical for me to say the points you quoted
are abnormal, because in my experience, that's what being 14 was like.

Consensual encounters between underage high school freshman and adult high
school seniors are certainly different than a DHS employee, but which one is
more "moral" depends on the framework you use to evaluate trust. For example,
atleast DHS employees get background checks. And which of those two groups are
better known for carrying out school shootings?

My points are: Stallman's _relatively extreme views_ are not _absolutely
extreme views_ ; and overall, the amount of gray area in the subject makes it
complicated.

~~~
zzo38computer
I wouldn't know about your first two paragraphs, but I can agree about the
third paragraph, that "the amount of gray area in the subject makes it
complicated". Yes, a lot of stuff becomes complicated because there is a lot
of parts, not all of which are being considered (and many that I have not
thought of).

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flippinburgers
Original title yes. Clickbait nonetheless.

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throw7
Sauce?

