
We ‘may’ have discovered a potential remedy for tinnitus - DanielBMarkham
https://www.linkedin.com/content-guest/article/we-may-have-discovered-potential-remedy-tinnitus-spencer
======
reeddavid
There are many calls for personal responsibility here. But I think the average
person is not making a choice to sustain permanent hearing damage – most
people don't know the risks.

I used to own a decible meter. I brought it to a movie theater (large chain)
and found sustained volume of 100+ decibels. It was physically painful. I was
the only customer who complained to the theater. I asked what sound level they
intended to set the movie to. They told me it's up to the projectionist, who
sets the volume knob in the booth based on no measurement or preset.

There's a lot of real harm being done, and I would like to see at the very
least some basic informative disclosure. And operators should be held
responsible for creating dangerous conditions that are not disclosed or agreed
to by customers. If people want to sustain hearing damage for a night of
enjoyment, they should do so only willingly (and therefore knowingly).

I'm very keen to protect my own hearing, so I carry musician's earplugs
(reduces volume without sounding muffled) and wear them often – not just at
obviously loud places like concerts, but in common situations like loud
restaurants.

~~~
RonanTheGrey
It's been my experience that most places can reduce volume levels (music,
theaters etc) about 10-15% without loss of experience or fidelity and I have
taken to actually asking managers to turn down volume because my ears actually
_hurt_. It's loud for the sake of loud. I can't understand why the music in a
restaurant needs to be so loud that I have to scream at the people at my table
to be heard.

Obviously we're screaming over other tables, too, who are also screaming over
us. It's a big scream fest, and I have observed that alot of it starts with
high music volume levels. Turn down the damn music, come on.

Oh and get off my lawn.

(I'm not that old really hah but I sound that way when I make an issue of
this...)

~~~
goda90
I've gone to two rock concerts that the volume was so loud that is was
distorting the music. Of course my ears hurt, so I took to covering them a
bit. My friend often goes to concerts and wasn't phased at all. I imagine the
people in charge of sound have already lost some hearing, and they don't care
if it sounds great or not.

~~~
pas
Use party earplugs, even the low grade ~20 bucks version is night-and-day.

Some concerts/parties/clubs are definitely purposely too loud. Yes, many
people going are already hearing-compromised.

~~~
dzhiurgis
Soundsystem parties are designed to have so much base it vibrates your body.

If you go there without earplugs someone will offer you napkins as otherwise
you’ll get tinnitus.

------
pedrocr
Finding a cure or treatment for tinnitus would be awesome. I have a very mild
case from a few too many loud concerts.

What I find amazing is how we don't attack the source of the problem much that
I can see. Concerts, clubs, fireworks, even movies blast away above any
reasonable level, causing damage to large parts of the population. We all just
get progressively damaged hearing bit by bit. And yet there's very little
policing of this that I have seen. It's just another form of pollution that's
being imposed on people, often in public places where they haven't even had a
choice (e.g., the fireworks case) or have a very poor choice (e.g., not going
out with friends over this because they want to go to a rock concert).

~~~
nappy-doo
I'm sorry you hurt your hearing. I know quite a few with tinnitus, and some of
them are borderline suicidal with how horrible it is for them.

I doubt legislation with help. As a drummer from my early teens till mid 30s
(some of that time in a partially successful band), and attender of thousands
of shows, I KNEW concerts were too loud, and ALWAYS took earplugs (except once
to a Weird Al show). I think I still suffer from hearing loss, especially with
the amount of times I say, "huh" to my kids and wife.

So, from a position of possible mild hearing loss, I think personal
responsibility is the only thing here. From wearing protection at shows, while
using power tools, and I sometimes do it on the subway commuting. No one will
look out for your hearing, but you.

Again, I'm sorry about your ears. I can't imagine how terrible it is, but
having seen all the ways venues work, I doubt legislation will do shit.

~~~
pedrocr
At least where I am legislation already exists. What I'm puzzled by is why it
doesn't seem to be policed at all, and why nobody seems to care. When rivers,
soil or the air are being visibly produced we at least get some public
reactions. For some reason for sound we don't perceive it the same way.

~~~
zzzeek
a real law would be based on measurement, not perception.

~~~
pedrocr
The law is based on measurement of course. It's our lack of reaction to the
non-following of the law that's the perception issue.

------
mitch-snipline
I would urge anyone that suffers from tinnitus to get their hearing checked if
they haven't already.

Getting hearing aids has given me significant relief from tinnitus and if my
hearing aid battery dies the tinnitus comes back fairly quickly. It's as if my
ear is trying to compensate for the lack of sound.

Of course, there are multiple reasons for tinnitus to occur so your mileage
may very, but it's absolutely worth checking out.

~~~
SkyPuncher
> It's as if my ear is trying to compensate for the lack of sound.

Holy crap. You just blew my mind. "Silence is deafening" makes more than just
figurative sense.

From a young age, I've always noticed a light ringing while in extremely quiet
places. Not enough to bother me, but enough to notice my ears straining to
hear sound.

~~~
cevn
I hear it right now. Doesn't everyone?

~~~
hluska
I’m not sure how old you are, but can 42 year old me give you some advice? Go
get a hearing test. If I would have known about my tinnitus at 22, I would
have a noticeably higher quality of life at 42...

~~~
astrodust
Why? What would they do?

~~~
hluska
I would stopped damaging my hearing almost a decade before I did.

------
mjlee
This reminds me of the technique that went viral via Reddit a couple of years
ago:

[https://lifehacker.com/this-weird-trick-might-give-you-
brief...](https://lifehacker.com/this-weird-trick-might-give-you-brief-relief-
from-your-1794093023)

I don't suffer from tinnitus, but I know people who do and some of them have
said that this helped them.

~~~
jitendrac
Trust me, It never helped me.

Edit: never knew telling your experiences gets you downvotes.

~~~
swinglock
I don't trust you. It works for me.

~~~
jplayer01
Trust me, it didn't work for me.

~~~
TrinaryWorksToo
I don't trust that you've read your own mind.

------
peheje
I had a ringing for a weekend and found and used this extensively
[https://github.com/generalfuzz/acrn](https://github.com/generalfuzz/acrn)

I remember it being after some loud event. But I honestly can't remember.

It went away. But it might not have been tinnitus and just an ear infection.
Or it might have helped, I'm just one sample size.

~~~
x2f10
Interesting. It seems my tinnitus is around freq 8200. I'll give this tool a
go when I'm in a more quiet environment.

~~~
mav3rick
Can you update and tell us what happened ?

~~~
x2f10
Update: I tried it twice. Both times it failed. There were times between the
beeps were I swore it was gone, but when I took off the headset (or muted the
volume), it was indeed still there. Perhaps you have to continuously do it?

~~~
peheje
Hi. In original post I wrote I had ringing for a weekend. It was in fact a
week. I used it 1-3 times a day. Mostly while getting to sleep or walking, I
could lower the volume more and more until I slept.

The ringing was totally gone in between the tones but as you know it's really
a short span.

You say you're used it twice and it failed, I don't think you can conclude
that. You can read section 2.5 in the paper. Here it mentions treatment of 4-6
hours a day not split into sections shorter than an hour and over ~12 weeks.

If you fall asleep with some earphone in maybe that also counts the time?

Then it's easier to get such a high number therapy. E.g. one walk session a
day for 1 hour. And then 3 hours at night until you wake up groggily and take
of the earpieces and continue sleeping.

------
abstractbarista
Is it possible that tinnitus is actually just a person's inability to ignore
natural noise in the hearing systems? More of a physchological issue like
chewing fingernails or having OCD, but which can be amplified by legitimate
physical hearing damage?

I ask this because for all the life I can remember, I've always been able to
perceive a high-pitched tone, even in completely quiet environments. If I
actually focus on it, it's quite loud and annoying.

It's just that my "default state" is to not think or notice this tone, and
instead focus on "actual" sounds.

I have been tested to not have hearing damage.

~~~
KirinDave
Most tinnitus sufferers learn to ignore their noises to some degree. You're
like me, where you have figured out how to turn it out. We're lucky sufferers,
our noise is fairly constant. Some folks perceive more patterns in their
noise, and that makes it much harder to ignore.

~~~
LIV2
Yeah, I suddenly woke up with tinnitus a few months ago and while I can ignore
it most of the time there are days where it's louder with a constantly
changing pitch and it drives me insane

~~~
FreeFull
There are many possible causes for tinnitus. One potential cause is muscle
tension in the neck, in which case the tinnitus should go away when the
tension is relieved (through massage or some other means). I'd recommend just
looking into various potential causes until you find the one (and hope it's
something you can do something about).

------
mettamage
I wrote this relatively recently in another comment. I think it applies here:

I have tinnitus. I got it from going out too much. I wasn't the biggest party-
hardy individual, but there were moments where I went out quite a bit. During
that time I lived in Amsterdam and loved parties for: music, social
experimentation and doing whatever. I wasn't too much into the drugs/alcohol
thing. I think during my 'going out phase' I was above average in terms of how
many times I went out to clubs. This period lasted for 4 years.

It was 6 months of agony, then I started to ignore it. It wasn't a conscious
decision, the ignoring happened automatically. I only have the high pitched
ringing in my ears when it's quiet. It literally feels like a curse though, I
can't hear silence.

5 years later, I found out something remarkable (and I hope there's a
researcher willing to test this with me and other tinnitus people). It was an
accident to figure this out.

When I do the Wim Hof Method, for just a brief moment it's silent. I can kind
of have an idea why, since it's silent during an oxygen starvation moment
(breathing all your oxygen out and then not breathing for another 2 to 3
minutes).

But for me it was a life saver. Why? Because if I really want to experience
true quietness again, I can do the Wim Hof Method and experience about 10 to
20 seconds of quietness per 5 minutes.

My curse is lifted. It's not perfect, but good enough for me.

If you have tinnitus and want to learn the Wim Hof Method from me, feel free
to reach out [1], my email is in my profile.

[1] My time is limited, I can teach up a total of 6 people for free who also
have tinnitus. If you send an email, I'll put you in an online session with 1
to 2 other people (who also responded to this, so they're all from HN). After
6 people, I need to charge for my time. And please, leave the spots open for
people who actually have tinnitus. Don't fake it, there are probably
(hopefully) videos online on how to do the Wim Hof Method.

Final note: learning the WHM to alleviate yourself from tinnitus is an
experiment. It worked for me. It may not work for you. Also, learning the WHM
you need someone to be physically there to be a 100% sure about your physical
safety (normally that would be me). And you need to be in an otherwise healthy
condition.

I'm not a doctor, and this invitation is for entertainment purposes only.

~~~
jplayer01
> I have tinnitus. It was 6 months of agony, then I started to ignore it. It
> wasn't a conscious decision, the ignoring happened automatically. I only
> have the high pitched ringing in my ears when it's quiet. It literally feels
> like a curse though, I can't hear silence.

My tinnitus generally doesn't bother me on a psychological level, so I feel
fairly lucky in that regard. I just wish I didn't have it all the time and I
end up drowning it out with music. I'd kill to be able to experience actual
silence again when I'm trying to sleep or just want to sit around and relax.

~~~
jitendrac
My tinnitus is high pitched but not loud enough to ruin my life, It took
almost 6 months to overcome the mental trauma.

Making some hard-ruled habit worked, I meditate every day morning and have a
good walk of an hour in evening. I almost never skipped walk unless it is
raining. I have same desire for experiencing silence, silence is golden.

------
brentis
This has merit. You guys do know this trick too?

Place the palms of your hands over your ears so your fingers wrap around the
back of your head.

Set your middle fingers on the top of your neck right at the base of your
skull.

Put your index fingers on top of your middle fingers and apply pressure.

Now snap them on the back of your head over and over like you’re drumming.

Repeat it about 30-50 times.

Ideally, when you pull your hands away, you won’t hear any ringing, hissing,
or buzzing anymore. When I tried it, there was definitely a huge difference
and bizarre inner calm that came over me. I wouldn’t say it’s a miracle trick
or anything, but to experience what true quiet is even for a few minutes is
amazing.

~~~
defulmere
I've tried this and while it really does seem effective for a minute or so for
me, I'm still not convinced that it's not just an auditory illusion, like the
tinnitus is somehow pushed aside by the sensation of the sudden (comparative)
silence that starts the instant that you stop drumming on the back of your
head.

------
tosser0001
I get the sense that tinnitus is so different for so many people there will
never be a single solution. I think it can only be stopped at its source in
the hearing centers of the brain itself, but good luck getting that
accomplished.

I can only describe mine as the sound of a dump truck full of chandeliers
going by the house. There are low-pitched rumbles, high-pitched wails and
everything else in between if I really concentrate on it. I'm not sure exactly
why I'm not despondent about it, but for whatever reason, I simply choose to
ignore it and it doesn't impact my life in any way. I'd pay big money to make
it go away, but I don't hold out any real hope.

~~~
asdfman123
> I'm not sure exactly why I'm not despondent about it, but for whatever
> reason, I simply choose to ignore it and it doesn't impact my life in any
> way

Actually, I've read that the best way to cope with tinnitus is to... just not
worry so much about it. I suppose it's possible to catastrophize if you have
it, but if you go about your day and don't mind it it won't bother you nearly
as much.

I actually have fairly soft tinnitus myself, but I only notice it every so
often.

~~~
jefftk
I have minor tinnitus as well, a high pitched sound like a CRT makes, and I
just don't pay attention to it.

But I don't know if this is "it doesn't bother you if you don't pay attention"
vs "mine is very minor" vs "something about it makes it not bother me, and
also not pay attention" or what.

~~~
_fy0z
I'm leaning towards the former option. I'd describe mine as very similar to
yours (mentioned in another comment), and it doesn't present an issue unless
you really think about it, where your mind consciously/subconsciously focuses
on the frequencies the tinnitus manifests in.

Getting to a place where it's just not something that you think about/bothers
you is, all things considered, a pretty good place to be in.

Edit: I don't mean to trivialize this issue, as it definitely does have a
greater effect on some people more than others. So, your 3rd possible
explanation is quite intriguing here too.

------
keitmo
I have a double hit of tinnitus.

The first hit started in 2010, a neurological "gift" from the swine flu.

The second hit happened in 2013 while mounting a new tubeless mountain bike
tire. The tire blew off the rim and caused permanent hearing damage in my
right ear.

I have to sleep with a fan or white noise machine now -- the "sound" I hear in
a silent room is enough to keep me awake.

------
sabujp
If you have slight tinnitus, you can use a white noise generator. What I've
found that works really well at work to both keep loud colleagues from
interfering and to reduce any high pitched noises I hear is this
[https://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/whiteNoiseGenerator.php?l=...](https://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/whiteNoiseGenerator.php?l=99997447473531250000&m=&d=0)
, you can also try their datacenter one. In another life when I used to have
to go to the DC and work directly on servers I found it actually quite
relaxing.

------
pfrench42
For free you can try a (scientifically?) based tinnitus modulator at
mynoise.net, it works a little bit for me.

[https://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/neuromodulationTonesGenera...](https://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/neuromodulationTonesGenerator.php)

------
wazoox
I have tinnitus because of beta blockers. One I switched treatment and it
disappeared, that was a huge relief.

Unfortunately, without beta blockers my pulse hovers at 100BPM when sitting,
120BPM when standing and 220BPM after climbing 10 stair-steps. So I have not
much choice but live with tinnitus...

~~~
astrodust
Unless you're a chipmunk that's an impressively and worryingly high rate.

~~~
gowld
One presumes that's what the beta blockers are for.

~~~
wazoox
Yup. With beta blockers I have a perfectly healthy heart rate and blood
pressure. Other products work well for the blood pressure in my case, but not
the heart rate.

------
beloch
Always be wary of researchers who go straight to the publicity mill instead of
seeking verification via a sample size >1.

~~~
falcolas
> It is hoped that this information generates further research by others
> within the field of hearing / vestibular dysfunction. I have finished the
> research for my PhD, this however I feel should be continued with active
> tinnitus researchers (over to you).

I, in contrast, think this is perfectly reasonable. The title promises
nothing, the article describes the methodology in detail, and they give it
over to others to study since they can't.

~~~
gowld
The article is fine as is. Posting it on HN is a distraction.

------
outime
A bit of a random comment here - it just happened that I recently injured my
sternocleidomastoid muscle and has caused some hearing trouble on the right
ear (not tinnitus). I saw that this also caused tinnitus in some individuals.
I’m not a doctor or anything but if you suffer from this and didn’t find any
relief, I’d suggest looking up for trigger point massage for this muscle. It’s
safe and free, and it helped some people at least.

------
d-d
Amazing! I'm holding my vibrating iPhone to my head in a certain spot which
gets the skull resonating, and it's cutting the tinnitus down by about 70%.

This is definitely doing something beyond masking the sound because when the
vibration stops there is a few seconds delay before the tinnitus comes back.

Pretty exciting stuff! I really hope this leads to a reasonable cure. I'm not
sure having a thing vibrating on my head would be any less distracting!

------
daenz
>The device we asked them to wear has four vibration levels. Half the
volunteers (the control group) had the device set to the lowest vibration
(level one), and half had it set to level three (the experimental group).
Level 3 is the effective vibration level for motion sickness reduction.

Shouldn't the control group be wearing the device but have no vibrations
active?

~~~
mrzimmerman
I wonder if the subjects knew the device should vibrate, so if it didn't
vibrate at all it would have thrown off the test.

If not, I agree with you. Or just find subjects that don't know what the
devices do so they can just sit on their heads doing nothing.

------
aplacelikethis
I have something related to tinitus: I sometimes get a ringing in my ear(s)
when I'm deep in thought. It's not always both ears.

The article suggests to me that tilting your head sideways could be a way to
cure tinitus - e.g. try various tilting movements (different speeds, angles,
repetitions) to tune in and out of the parts of your inner ear that cause the
tinnitus, taking note of any phenomenon that arise during various movement
patterns. And don't forget the tension/relaxation variable! E.g. large, fast
movements increase base tension, while slow, small movements decrease it.

I've quite a bit of experience loosening and tightening my joints from martial
art; I imagine a similar process can be applied to nerve connections.

(In fact I've been trying to apply it to muscle growth via nerve stimulation
because my room is on the small side for doing exercise. Burnt out a lot of
nerve cells trying, now focussing on nutrition before I continue.)

~~~
sooheon
> muscle growth via nerve stimulation

Is this different from growth from physical activity?

------
napsterbr
I suffer (quite literally) from Misophonia [0], and I can only hope someday we
find a cure for it. It's a curse.

As a developer, I'm afraid the only thing I can do about it is to raise
awareness.

[0] -
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misophonia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misophonia)

~~~
birdyrooster
I too suffer from this, and I think it must be related to my ADD, because I
think most people can filter these noises out. To the point that they won’t
become enraged by something their brain ignores as noise. Who wouldn’t become
enraged if their brain was hijacked by the most bullshit, meaningless sounds?

~~~
birdyrooster
To my point [https://www.additudemag.com/misophonia-sensitivity-to-
sounds...](https://www.additudemag.com/misophonia-sensitivity-to-sounds-adhd-
hypersensitivity/)

------
tapland
This thread reminding me about the sound is going to cause me so much agony
until I manage to not think about it again.

For the rest of you:

The Game

~~~
remyp
ughhh now I lost the game too why would you do that

------
aazaa
Interesting, but the article doesn't give enough information for third parties
to duplicate it. The referenced paper "Less sickness with more motion and/or
mental distraction" uses a completely different device.

Nor does the article indicate how long the relief persists after removal of
the device. The article is also vague about how many people have reported
relief.

There's also the question of controls. Assuming the effect is general and real
(a stretch at this point), there could be something about the device besides
its vibration that leads to relief of symptoms. Nothing along these lines is
reported.

I get that this is a blog post and that the author is probably in the process
of commercialization, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
The article does little to convince.

~~~
tim333
Re commercialisation he's "Spencer Salter, wellness technology researcher at
Jaguar Land Rover" so I guess they'd have first dibs.

That said I'm guessing is must be something like a phone vibrate unit in box
strapped behind your ear - probably not so hard to give it a shot at making
one. Googling vibrators gives a lot of them for sale though mostly designs
what would be embarrassing to strap to your head ;)

------
dghughes
This looks like something you could make into an app. Put phone on vibrate and
apply to back of head.

It's also very similar to the remedy suggested in a reddit comment. The
comment said to drum your fingers on the back of your head. Many people said
it did work to reduce their tinnitus.

------
neilwilson
I love accidentally discovered cures for issues. This might be like penicillin
for ears and hopefully it will relieve the suffering of thousands of people.

Let's hope it turns out to be true and can be developed rapidly into a medical
device.

------
ourlordcaffeine
So when can we get the device, or how can one be made?

~~~
londons_explore
Perhaps try taping an electric toothbrush behind your head...

~~~
joshuaheard
Haha, I held my electric toothbrush behind my ear for about 60 seconds and it
worked! The effect lasted only a couple of minutes. It seems like the heavy
vibrations mixed things up in there, and when they settled back down, the
ringing slowly returned.

------
newnewpdro
When I moved to a largely off-grid remote location of dead silence it became
clear I had a mild form of tinnitus.

Initially it was quite annoying and I thought it would drive me insane being
in otherwise complete silence where it was so hard to ignore. But after a few
months of silence it magically went away.

I suspect it was caused by my nearly constant use of headphones in
cafes/offices. On my land there's no need for such isolation mechanisms.

We're probably doing more harm to ourselves than expected by wearing
headphones every day, it's certainly not natural.

------
manmal
It's not a cure, and the sample sizes are low, but low level laser therapy
(LLLT) has been shown to bring significant improvement to some people with
tinnitus:

"Over half of the patients (56.9%) had some form of improvement in their
tinnitus symptoms. Mild improvement was reported in 33.8% of patients,
moderate improvement was reported in 16.9%, and full improvement was reported
in 6.15%. Of the patients who reported dizzy spells as a symptom of their
tinnitus condition, 27.7% reported mild improvement and 16.9% reported full
improvement."

(My own note regarding that study: 5mW at 650nm does not penetrate tissue very
deeply; one could e.g. use 100mW at 850nm to penetrate up to 5cm deep.
Exposure time would likely have to be reduced by at least an order of
magnitude.)

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3658799/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3658799/)

Also:

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3830897/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3830897/)

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3063436/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3063436/)

------
toyg
I am a heavy sufferer from motion sickness, working exactly as described here.
This device sounds like a godsend, if it works as they say. Even just used for
short periods, it would ensure I don't have to suffer mild nausea and headache
for hours after each and every flight (landing is hell).

My dream is to find something so effective, that I could travel by boat while
awake. But that would have to last for hours.

~~~
hinkley
Small sample size, but I’ve had pretty good luck with giving people chewing
gum to avoid motion sickness.

Something about the jaw moving seems to tamp down the motion sensitivity quite
a bit.

------
Ace17
"Although this is only anecdotal evidence"

This should have been at the _start_ of the article, not the end.

------
ourmandave
The story is also about preventing motion sickness. Just reading about the
test van with rear facing seats made me nauseous.

I'm still amazed people who can read or do whatever without ever looking out
the window for long periods of time.

------
goodmachine
I believe the original applications for this device were in vertigo and
seasickness, also being trialled to reduce nausea in VR

As far as I can work out the bone-conducted vibrations are simply a white-
noise distraction - or as the makers put it 'consistent and non-informative
stimulus'

[https://vrscout.com/news/device-solves-vr-motion-
sickness/](https://vrscout.com/news/device-solves-vr-motion-sickness/)

[https://otolithlabs.com/use-cases/](https://otolithlabs.com/use-cases/)

------
hawski
I have mild tinnitus so that's what brought me here, but I wonder about
something else from the article. They wanted to test for motion sickness while
facing backwards. That's my minor pet peeve. I think that we can't
realistically think of driving in something in a size of a car facing
backwards, because it's just inherently dangerous. In case of an accident
anything in your hands will hit you hard in your face, neck or chest. Same
with whatever people in front of you would have. So: hot coffee, bottles,
books, laptops and phones.

~~~
toyg
British black cabs have rear-facing seats, they make millions of perfectly-
safe trips every day.

------
loceng
It sounds to me like it's basically a white noise machine. For those who don't
know there is a sound therapy called Auditory Integration Training (Berard
AIT) - along with a book you can buy on Amazon called "Hearing Equals
Behaviour: Updated and Expanded" that can help reduce or eliminate tinnitus;
it more or less from my understanding and experience is allowing the brain to
un-focus from the sound, from that sensory, allowing the brain and sensory
input to equalize - as body is a system designed to constantly find
homeostasis.

------
BurningFrog
I hate this kind of "double weasel" headlines. Either of these would have been
fine:

 _We may have discovered a remedy for tinnitus – by accident_

or

 _We have discovered a potential remedy for tinnitus – by accident_

~~~
JadeNB
I don't get the significance of the quotes, and the article doesn't seem to
clarify. What, I wonder, is the intended difference between "we 'may' have
discovered …" and "we may have discovered …" (except possibly a weird third
layer of distancing)?

------
owlninja
Do any other long time sufferers experience that it gets louder when tired or
stressed? Also, definitely trying this with my electric toothbrush when I get
home!

------
PhasmaFelis
Now to wait 5-8 years for an FDA-approved medical device, which will cost
$3000.

I wonder if you could achieve the same effect with a vibrating massager?
Sticking a repurposed cellphone vibrator motor in an elastic band, like the
North Paw, also sounds like it would have potential.
[https://sensebridge.net/projects/northpaw/](https://sensebridge.net/projects/northpaw/)

~~~
hadlock
Just releasing what frequency they're using would be extremely helpful.

For sea sickness some companies offer a wrist band with a pea sized piece of
plastic on them to (supposedly) stimulate a nerve in your wrist. I do not
think that they require regulation.

I can see a situation where these devices could be sold for sea sickness
purposes with little to no regulation.

Vibrating motors are a pretty easy device to get ahold of, phones and game
controllers both have them; I don't see why you couldn't build one of these
devices from a kit for under $25 + battery.

~~~
toyg
_> For sea sickness some companies offer a wrist band with a pea sized piece
of plastic on them to (supposedly) stimulate a nerve in your wrist._

They don't really work. Or rather, they never worked _for me_.

 _> I can see a situation where these devices could be sold for sea sickness
purposes with little to no regulation._

I agree that they might not require much regulation, but I would appreciate
some tests to ensure they are safe and establish some thresholds. Tinnitus
sufferers in particular, would end up wearing this pretty much all day. Making
your skull vibrate for 16 hours a day, even at low frequencies, sounds a bit
dangerous.

------
jpindar
My tinnitus doesn't bother me very often, but when it does, this provides the
most amazing instant relief. And the relief lasts for some time even after you
stop listening to it.

[https://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/neuromodulationTonesGenera...](https://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/neuromodulationTonesGenerator.php)

That site also has an extremely wide variety of background noise.

------
macca321
So I have very mild tinnitus (a bit of ringing when in bed at night, or if I
really really try to listen for it).

I've noticed another auditory effect though, since I bought a glockenspiel for
my child. After hearing a loud, high note on the glock, immediately after
there is a momentary deep, squelchy rumble in my ears. Is this a tinnitus
artifact or something else? My google skills have failed me on this one.

~~~
noonespecial
Some people say that they can hear this(1) as a distinct sound.

(1)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_reflex](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_reflex)

~~~
macca321
Thanks, that could be it!

------
throwawayhhakdl
I was excited when I heard about these for VR. Haven’t heard much about them
yet.

But I do wonder if there won’t be unintended consequences. The brain is pretty
good at adapting. I believe these work by overloading the inner ear signal
with noise so the brain stops paying attention to it. What if the brain
decides to stop paying attention to it after the device is removed? Could it
affect balance?

------
joecool1029
There are also some other causes of tinnitus. For some patients SSRIs (and
SSRI-like medications, like Tramadol) cause tinnitus. Paper on it:
[https://www.cell.com/cell-
reports/fulltext/S2211-1247(17)310...](https://www.cell.com/cell-
reports/fulltext/S2211-1247\(17\)31098-7)

------
n-gauge
What I have done in the past (which is a temporary solution) is play a
matching frequency from a free phone app and make the volume repeatedly lower
and higher for a few minutes.. This cancels out the pitch in my ear for a
while.

Sometimes the tinnitus just stops by itself, and this can be for days. I am
aware of some triggers for it.

~~~
eikenberry
Get your earwax checked. Earwax buildup can cause intermittent tinnitus. If
that is the case they can remove it and the tinnitus may go away.

------
aasasd
My guess is, the nervous system dampens the signal from the middle ear when it
sees obvious noise coming in. IIRC tinnitus also gets diminished in a noisy
environment.

(Afaik it's a pretty well-known feature of the nervous system, an example
being how the ‘pins and needles’ fade out in a previously-sleeping limb.)

------
modeless
I am super excited about the motion sickness application of this. My wife gets
carsick and it is a source of tension in our relationship because it makes her
reluctant to travel. I wish they would start selling these already. I heard
about it last year but it seems that they are slow to market.

------
founderling
To those who have tinnitus:

When you put a finger in your ear and create a bit more or a bit less pressure
- does that change the frequency of your tinnitus?

Because for me it totally does. And I wonder if every tinnitus is like that.

Also: Is your tinnitus mainly on one side or equally on both sides? For me it
is mainly on the right side.

~~~
5oksuuhm
I have a ~1400hz tinnitus that changes with pressure as you describe. I've
also recently noticed ibuprofen quietens it some.

------
sethammons
Wow, this could be huge. My tinnitus is mild and generally is only audible in
quiet situations with small bouts where it gets really loud. On the opposite
end of the spectrum, a former co-worker committed suicide because he could not
continue life with such debilitating tinnitus.

------
benji-york
Ignore the click-bait URL, this gives me a temporary improvement:
[https://lifehacker.com/this-weird-trick-might-give-you-
brief...](https://lifehacker.com/this-weird-trick-might-give-you-brief-relief-
from-your-1794093023)

------
wtvanhest
This is somewhat random, but my tinnitus gets worse if my posture is worse.

I believe I am somewhat alone in this, but did find some other people on
reddit saying the same thing.

Basically, if I keep my neck more straight, it really relieves it.

Something free to try for those seeking a solution.

------
fortran77
I had no idea that there was a connection between motion sickness and
tinnitus, and interestingly I suffer from both! (I was unable to complete the
"road to Hana" in Maui because I got out of the car to puke several times!)

------
lvturner
Thank you to everyone in the comments - I noticed I have mild tinnitus in my
right ear just on Friday.

Have already been to the doctors, but so far just at the "monitor it" stage
with more tests to be done in a few weeks if it persists.

------
mikelyons
Anecdotal, but a close friend told me that during a moderately high dose
mushroom experience his tinnitus was gone for the duration (~4 hours). I was
there with him while he was experiencing this.

~~~
citruscomputing
I've seen people reporting the same, and also sustained (weeks or months)
improvement from even microdoses.

------
m3kw9
Wouldn’t this make things worse when you may need to turn it off at night when
you sleep? Also what are the side effects of vibrating for too long? These
question are important

------
swalsh
"We know from an earlier experiment that facing backwards in a driverless car
causes a lot of motion sickness"

Could this be true for backwards facing baby seats too?

------
billsmithaustin
I've had tinnitus for as long as I remember. Haven't tried this, but I've read
some people have luck treating it with biofeedback.

------
Bootwizard
Anyone know where I can buy one?

I've had tinnitus for as long as I remember, and it impacts my enjoyment of
music and sometimes my ability to fall asleep.

------
fjabre
It’s already well known that TMS or repetitive Transcranial Magnetic
Stimulation can help with Tinnitus

------
tristanlange
I have had it for 20+ years from DJing + performing. They ring 247, you get
used to it.

The ringing is caused by damaged nerves in your ears turning audio signal into
white noise. It's hearing damage. Any cure that doesn't fix the damaged nerves
causing the problem, is bs.

------
terrycody
why I feel extremely thrill when I read such a news from any ambitious tech
workers in the world, kudos to them!

------
rasz
>motion sickness

Who will build it into VR gear first?

------
ibatindev
Just in time for Archer's finale.

------
growlist
Tinnitus is weird. When I first had it I heard it all the time, it ruined my
enjoyment of music, and I felt I was cursed for life. These days I can go for
weeks without even realising it's there. I'd literally forgotten about it
until I read this.

~~~
mhandley
I've had tinnitus for 40 years, accompanied by deafness in one ear, due to
inner ear damage caused by getting Mumps when I was 13. If I focus on it, it's
really loud \- I can easily hear it over a loud pub environment, and it's
there all the time. But the brain is amazingly adaptive - if I don't focus on
it, it doesn't annoy me, and I forget it is there.

------
angel_j
It's probably the headband, not the vibration. Pulling the ears back helps
open the flow to them.

~~~
swvjeff
Headbands don’t cure tinnitus

~~~
tristanlange
Nothing does.

------
h2odragon
Interesting. How very kind of them to mention this to the public for further
experimentation.

Has this individual now opened themselves to liability for IP theft, stealing
potential billions of treatment money from the company that gets it approved
by the FDA?

~~~
dvdhnt
Right, a possible dramatic improvement of quality of life for those with
tinnitus, but your first thought is IP theft?

I surely hope those kinds of thoughts, and the arcane system that nurtured
them, does a swift and painful death as we retake basic human rights and
healthcare from the clutches of capitalism’s greasy claws.

Edit: I’m criticizing how a society can create such a connection in the first
place.

~~~
shawnz
I think you've got it all backwards. We created capitalism in our image, not
the other way around. Capitalism is also what achieved those things which you
are suggesting we should retake in the first place. Would it be better to not
have capitalism if it meant not having those things?

~~~
tsimionescu
Capitalism and human rights have nothing to do with each other. There are
capitalist nations, such as Denmark or the US, which have pretty decent human
rights for their own citizens at least. And there are other capitalist
nations, such as China or the USSR, which have very bad track records on human
rights.

And no, state capitalism, such as you can find in China or the USSR, is not
socialism or communism, any more than North Korea is a people's republic.

~~~
shawnz
I know there are capitalist nations which have weak human rights. But are
there any non-capitalist nations which have strong human rights?

~~~
tsimionescu
There haven't really been non-capitalist functioning societies for a century I
think. There have been short-lived experiments that quickly collapsed into
either authoritarianism, war, or back to capitalism.

However, if you accept one of these short-lived societies - the very early
bolshevik/Soviet regime, immediately after the revolution and before Lenin
assumed complete control, was the first nation in the world to recognize the
rights of gays to a normal life, and had some other very high-minded rights
for its citizens. Of course, that very quickly ended and became one of the
most vicious regimes in history...

If you look at older societies, the Haudenosaunee (Iroquois confederacy) in
North America actually inspired some of the ideas of the US constitution. I
also think a place like Athens had relatively strong human rights, if we
ignore their practice of slavery and treatment of women.

By the way, when I say non-capitalist society, I am thinking of a society
where the majority of the population is not working for a wage, and where most
of the land and business is not owned by a small group of people ('the 0.1
percent' in the US, the party leadership in China or USSR).

