

Irish Minister for Justice considers Apple’s iOS 6 Maps dangerous - k-mcgrady
http://sociable.co/meme/thats-not-an-airport-its-a-farm-irish-minister-for-justice-is-not-happy-with-ios6s-apple-maps/

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_djo_
This was just a publicity measure for the guy's constituency.

No pilot flying in VFR conditions is going to need to rely on a consumer map
application running on a smartphone or tablet in the event of an emergency,
because they're trained to know their alternate airports and to look out at
the ground to identify suitable emergency landing areas.

Similarly IFR pilots are required to file flight plans which often require
explicit identification of alternate airports in the case of an emergency and
they carry so much redundant equipment that a need to fall back on Apple Maps
isn't a realistic scenario.

If you want to highlight the real dangers of people relying on maps with
faulty data there are far better examples. For instance in the city in which I
live Google Maps for years showed a high-end hotel as being in a really,
really bad part of town. Unsuspecting tourists could get themselves into a bad
spot just following what their maps app was telling them.

With people relying on the built-in maps apps on their phones to an ever-
growing extent, Apple needs to put in a lot of effort to fix Apple Maps and
they need to do it fast.

~~~
blaines
It sounds like you're a US pilot, are the regulations similar internationally?

Though I have heard of some pretty ridiculous landing decisions [1], I doubt
this map error will increase Airfield's chances of someone landing there. So I
totally agree, the situation described is rather preposterous.

[1]
[http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_northern_az/other/dps-p...](http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_northern_az/other/dps-
plane-makes-emergency-landing-on-arizona-highway)

~~~
_djo_
I have experience with the regulations in South Africa, but they are similar
internationally as a result of co-operation through the ICAO and other
agencies. Most of the world also follows the lead of the US FAA and European
JAA in terms of civil aviation regulations.

And yes, pilots have had to make some bizarre emergency landings over the
years, but if you're in a situation where the engine quits and you have to get
on the ground safely quick the last thing you'll be doing is looking down at
your phone or tablet. So yep, preposterous.

------
Permit
My first thought was that it's ridiculous to assume pilots would ever be
reliant on Apple Maps when trying to land their aircraft.

Then I remembered a few similar occurrences:

[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianoce...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8366607/RAF-
pilots-used-Google-Maps-for-Libya-rescue.html)

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDgC4FMftpg>

[http://news.softpedia.com/news/Queensland-Floods-
Helicopter-...](http://news.softpedia.com/news/Queensland-Floods-Helicopter-
Crew-Used-Google-Maps-to-Locate-Victims-Video-236488.shtml)

~~~
mtgx
Quite a few airlines have handed out iPads to pilots already. It wouldn't be a
stretch for that to happen eventually...

~~~
protomyth
The pilots are not using the built-in Maps app.

~~~
prothid
Pilot here. I will confirm this, and also add that there are many other ways
to find an airport (paper maps, atc, handheld aviation gps, built-in gps,
airport beacons at night, and also just looking out the window). In an
emergency, the last thing I'd do is have my head down in an ipad/iphone. From
the aerial shot it appears clear that it's not an airport, but it is probably
the largest field around, so it would be a target in an engine failure
scenario regardless.

------
brudgers
Somewhere, there's an intern with "While at Apple, developed state of the art
automated feature identification algorithms for mapping team" on his resume.

~~~
acuozzo
> Somewhere, there's an intern with "While at Apple, developed state of the
> art automated feature identification algorithms for mapping team" on his
> resume.

I feel worse for the intern with ``Microsoft Windows Notepad'' on his resume.

~~~
cheald
In fairness, Notepad manages to basically do what you expect it to.

~~~
Natsu
It has an annoying file size limitations, though.

<http://support.microsoft.com/kb/59578>

~~~
yskchu
> It has an annoying file size limitations, though.

> <http://support.microsoft.com/kb/59578>

The link you submitted is for:

    
    
        Microsoft Windows 3.0 Standard Edition
    
        Microsoft Windows for Workgroups 3.1
    
        Microsoft Windows for Workgroups 3.11

~~~
Natsu
My bad. I can assure you that they persisted long after that, though. I hardly
ever used 3.1 and I replaced Notepad long ago due to them.

Vim is far more useful, anyhow.

------
davebees
I think his statement was more light-hearted than interpreted here.

~~~
ilcavero
agreed, Irish times interprets it as tongue in cheek
[http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0920/break...](http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0920/breaking20.html?via=mr)

------
nachteilig
I can't speak to Ireland, but pilots using the Maps app for navigation
wouldn't "fly" in the US. There are electronic cockpit apps that can be used
on an iPad, but Maps isn't one of them.

~~~
k-mcgrady
I don't think that's what the Justice Minister means. It's conceivable that in
an emergency, as a last resort, the pilot of a small plane may use the Maps
app on an iPad or iPhone so scout potential landing areas. Obviously it's
unlikely to happen but it is a possibility (probably not on a 747 though).

~~~
patrickk
I would love to hear a sequence of events that could possibly involve a pilot
attempting to land on the basis of information from an iPhone map.

There's whole emergency systems in place to ensure things like this don't
happen- you know, basic radio contact with the ground being one obvious
example.

Irish Government ministers should be dealing with our sovereign debt crisis
rather than spouting crap about stuff they've no idea about.

~~~
barrkel
There is already a post on this thread about similar events already having
occurred - <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4550431>

~~~
_djo_
Didn't see any reliance on a maps app for emergency navigation. In the one
example the pilots printed out an image from Google Earth as a guide to the
terrain of the landing area, they still used their eyes and brains to decide
how to land once they got there. In the other they used the app to locate
street addresses, but that wasn't critical navigation and the same could've
been achieved with a standard street map.

I have yet to hear of any pilot relying on a maps app like Google Maps in an
emergency.

------
zaphar
I don't know how Apple could expect anything less than this response. They are
coming from behind with the incumbent king of maps holding a lead they
couldn't possibly hope to close in a first release. Possibly not in the first
several releases.

It's a hard problem. Even if you get a good source of data you still have to
present it correctly to the user and the best way to fix issues is to get it
into the hands of users. If you allow competing maps on the platform though
the users aren't likely to use yours unless the data is at least as good and
the experience is superior.

I'm not sure this was a battle they should have picked.

------
lurkinggrue
I'll just leave this here:

<http://theamazingios6maps.tumblr.com/>

------
Irishsteve
This is a common problem in Ireland. The locals are constantly using google
maps and now apple maps to land their planes.

------
nekojima
Hope no one using Apple's iOS6 maps tries to land a plane at the "Airport
Strip" in Mississauga. Its a strip club.

------
lynchdt
Just be happy you don't live in Ireland.

[1] Our prime minister explaining what cloud computing is - "A wireless
connection to shared storage" <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzaQxLFl3rQ>

[2] A senator explaining why the abundance of rain on the west coast of
Ireland makes it particularly suitable as a base for, wait for it, _cloud_
technology - <https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056460271>

~~~
davebees
The second one was a hoax.

------
sp332
The site is over its bandwidth limit, here's a cache
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http%3A...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http%3A%2F%2Fsociable.co%2Fmeme%2Fthats-
not-an-airport-its-a-farm-irish-minister-for-justice-is-not-happy-with-
ios6s-apple-maps%2F)

------
kylec

        "Clearly the designation is not only wrong but is dangerously misleading in that
        it could result in a pilot, unfamiliar with the area,  in an emergency situation
        and without other available information, attempting a landing."
    

Maybe you shouldn't have named it "airfield", then?

~~~
edoloughlin
> Maybe you shouldn't have named it "airfield", then?

It's been there since the 1820s.

------
ricardobeat
Question: are maps in a TomTom GPS as broken as these?

------
joshu
Can someone file a bug to rename the farm?

------
digitalengineer
Wait! There's an App for that? (Autoland?)

~~~
neurotech1
Legend has it that a Qantas 747 tried that.

Problem: Autoland landed rough and to the left of runway

Solution: Autoland not installed on aircraft.

Apparently, when the 747 first came out they had issues with the avionics box
for autoland, and someone didn't tape-off the panel in the cockpit as
unserviceable.

~~~
rmccue
Not sure where this is from, but I doubt it's true. Qantas has a fairly good
safety record, and as far as I can tell (from Wikipedia and memory), only two
incidents have occurred with 747s, and only one during landing: a 747-400
overran the runway in Thailand during a storm.

Sounds more like an urban legend to me.

~~~
neurotech1
First of all: Qantas have had more "incidents" than that. The Bangkok mishap
was the first "accident" (substantial damage to the jet) since they started
flying jet airliners.

A Qantas pilot explained the details of how it could have happened. If certain
pre-landing checks were not done, and the module was missing, its Plausible
for non-functioning autoland in a 747-200 to go unnoticed.

Accidently going off the side of the runway pavement could result in little
damage, assuming the jet stayed controllable.

