

Ask HN: Why is that 10+ years experience folks struggle to find work - tunetune

I see that lots of 10+ years of folks in software struggle to find work while while lots of under 26 command 100K+ salary .  I don&#x27;t want to be cynical and I completely understand and also onboard with everyone should receive compensation commensurate to their talent. In fact, I fully support it.<p>Lately though, after hanging around on sites like HN, reading quite a lot I am finding an interesting observation. People having 10+ or even 15+ years of experience face greater challenge to find work , be it change of job , finding job in new state etc. 
where as there are lot of young folks who easily command 100K+ salary.<p>What is missing glue ?  Why people with large experience struggle to find work ? Are we gradually moving into phenomena that if you are 30+ then either be in management or get out ?<p>Would love to hear your point of view.
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mindcrime
I haven't found that, or anything even close to that, to be the case at all.
Maybe it's a geographical thing? I'm on the East Coast and from what I can
see, if you have a "hot" skillset (Hadoop/Big-Data, MongoDB, Clojure, Node.js,
Angular/Ember, etc.) you won't have any problem finding a job, regardless of
your age.

Personally, I'm 41 with 15+ years of IT experience and I have never felt any
sense of age discrimination at all. But, I'm also constantly working to keep
my skills current, and I do a lot of things to make myself attractive and
known in my area - speaking at events, writing articles, blogging, etc.
_shrug_

My feeling is, if you're sitting at 15 years of experience and you've been,
for example, writing Java code for 15 years, go pick up a Scala or Clojure
book, or learn R or take the time to learn Hadoop, Spark, Storm, Kafka,
MongoDB, etc. If you have skills that are "hip" at a moment in time, I don't
think it's usually going to matter much how old you are.

OTOH, if you are a 15 year Java programmer who is still writing Java 1.2 code
for a JSP based app that integrates with a COBOL book-keeping system on an IBM
S/360, and you refuse to even _look_ at that "new fangled" Java 1.3 or newer,
then yeah, you might find yourself in a tough spot if/when they decide to turn
off that mainframe.

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ekm2
Can you recommend some good beginner books on Clojure?

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escherize
I worked with the guy who wrote the Manning book my sibling commenter
mentioned, and it's quite good. But if you want to jump into clojure quickly,
I can't reccomend Clojure for the Brave and True enough.
[http://www.braveclojure.com/](http://www.braveclojure.com/)

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crpatino
Good comments so far, specially those touching on skill-set rust and
interviewer bias. I'd like to offer a different perspective, not because is
better but because is another uncorrelated factor.

Maybe more seasoned people struggling to find work are looking for jobs _as
if_ they were young?

As a single data point, I have 10 years of (paid) experience and a graduate
degree. When I was about 30 I struggled a lot to find any IT related position.
Part of it had to do with me doing the same thing as all the fresh crop of
B.A.s were doing at the same time: send resumes, apply to jobs online, contact
my alumni association, etc.

The thing is that I was competing in a market where I was seen as past the
pull date: overqualified and too expensive for entry level positions, but
still not mature enough for management.

Fast forward 8 years and I am doing much better. One thing I accidentally
discovered is that there is a lot of weight in having a list of colleagues
that know you, trust you, and are willing/able to let you know of career
opportunities that are not heavily publicized. I have been in both sides of
that kind of relationship and it is a win-win.

So, maybe some people struggling may benefit from being a little more social?
Or maybe their own network is very isolated (all work at the same place) so
they all enter times of need at the same time and are not able to help each
other out?

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janbernhart
Overall in development I don't see problem for 'experienced' people to find
(good) jobs. I do see problem for people who have only mastered the tools,
method, paradigms etc that were common when they graduated 20 years ago.

(though irony has it that some mainfraim experts can earn a fortune because
nobody has that skill any more while some companies do still need it.)

As for cultural fit; you'll see youngsters in t-shirts getting rejected at
bigger corporates, and 'older' developers in suits getting rejected at
startups. Not necessarily an age thing on a meta level. (or is the question
specifically aimed at employment at startups? In that case, ignore my comment
above).

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bikamonki
Because they are expensive while not necessarily better.

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csmdev
Employers want cheap workers and experience is seen as expensive. This is why
most companies have one or two real developers and dozens of juniors learning
on the job.

If you're experienced, you're better off building a startup.

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robodale
I'm 41. This is what I am doing (doing consulting to keep me going until my
startup actually starts-up and stays up).

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hcho
I suspect most 10+ years experience guys are actually 10 * 1 year experience
guys. When you have someone like that in front of you in an interview, it is
quite difficult to look past the fact that the person has no respect to his
job.

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csmdev
So people that specialize in a field and become experts have no respect for
the job. But the ones that hop around each year based on what's "hot" are
better.

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collyw
I work with 10 * 1 year guys at work - my team leader. I know more languages
than him, and I still write better SQL than him (one of the things he does
know). Making an effort to learn something new doesn't stop you specialising
in other areas. Also sticking to a one set of technologies doesn't mean you
will automatically get good at them.

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csmdev
Did you stop and think why he is the team leader and not you? Maybe having a
deeper understanding of something is more important than playing with multiple
things at once.

Always switching technologies will get you only basic knowledge in each of
them. Going past the surface requires daily use and years of constant
evolution. That's how you become an expert in something. Deeper understanding.
Not broader.

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johnnyfaehell
Being a good team leader and being a good developer aren't the same thing. You
can be an amazing team leader but suck at being a developer. There are a lot
of team leads that are team leads just because they got there first. I've seen
one who struggled at basic problem solving.

However I get what you mean. The guy does seem to be a bit up himself.

~~~
collyw
Agreed, but he isn't good at that either!

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zubairq
There is no job shortage, even for people with 10 years+. The problem is there
are far too many jobs. Contact me at zq@nemcv.com and if I can't find you a
job then I will personally give you USD $1000!

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JSeymourATL
> Why people with large experience struggle to find work ?

#1 Reason: ineffective, non-focused job search strategy. #2) Passive approach,
negative or even a pessimistic attitude. #3) They've stopped learning and
growing.

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aprdm
I have the feel that the salary stops growing up very quickly. Do a 10 years
guy earn more than 200~300k/year? Or it says in 100k/year for ever?

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gesman
It's a mentality thing, nothing to do with years [or lack of thereof]
experience.

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brogrammer90
It's because the people hiring you are in their late 20s and have culture fit
as the second most important attribute. I've seen it first hand where my team
chose a 30 year old man child over a 40 year old. The latter actually got
marks against him because he wore a suit to the interview.

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SFjulie1
grumpy old 10+ myself, I can answer for me: because for me it is boring to
play the comedy.

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zubairq
Contact me at zq@nemcv.com, I have personally helped 1000s of people in your
exact situation to find the right job. Just be ready to take the red pill! :)

~~~
zubairq
Why -2 points? You should be trying to help this guy get a job, instead of
giving him bogus advice!

