
Senators skip classified briefing on NSA snooping to catch flights home - Libertatea
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/305765-senators-skip-classified-briefing-on-nsa-snooping-to-catch-flights-home
======
DanielBMarkham
In a normal scandal story, the appropriate committee would grant immunity to
Snowden, have him testify, then bring up Clapper, have him testify, and
compare notes. Preferably publicly.

Here they bring in one side of the story for a secret Powerpoint presentation,
no doubt with a high degree of spin to it, and publicly call Snowden a
traitor. Then they complain that nobody shows up.

This isn't a bake sale or a dog and pony show, it's supposed to be the
workings of the U.S. Senate. This sounds much more like an effort to CYA from
the committee chair and NSA than it does an actual investigation or anything
useful. Not going to make much progress continuing to operate in this fashion.

It IS interesting, however, that both sides here feel that, if only the other
side knew more about what was actually going on, they would agree with them.
But then the government insists on keeping it all secret. Meh.

~~~
siphor
I honestly think it's time to take action more than just normal protests..
Which are useless.. We need to find a way to get more than just the minority
to revolt. Think about how many straight up stupid things are happening.. We
make jokes about politicians and theyre decisions (see daily show) but i dont
think its funny anymore. We need to change. I'm thinking about making some
sort of political website, I can't decide what the best way to do it is... But
just a way to show how corrupt these assholes are, a very clear interface,
showing their decisions, and how common sense doesn't dictate them. It's
ridiculous and I'm upset by it. Anyone have any ideas to make this thing as
good as possible? Ill start it tomorrow, any designers feel free to contact me
:)

The retarted amount of money our government spends on "defense" and other
things... Think about how much better we can do with the worlds best engineers
and 1/10th of the defense budget. Ugh

~~~
MisterWebz
Create a list of representatives and mine all their data that is available on
the internet and put it on your website. I think that would allow us to easily
form a picture of who that person is and what he stands for, whether he's
being influenced by certain corporations etc...

EDIT:
[http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1geg2t/senators_skip_c...](http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1geg2t/senators_skip_classified_briefing_on_nsa_snooping/cajfq9l)

~~~
cinquemb
Saw this there: [http://www.govtrack.us/about](http://www.govtrack.us/about),
but it just seems like gov data. Maybe instead of just mining, one could
crowdsource photos/videos from people as they see them in places and get the
timestamps and geotags.

~~~
MisterWebz
Agreed. And when they complain, we could tell them if they have nothing to
hide, then they have nothing to fear.

------
startupfounder
Our government is broken. It is no longer by the people for the people.

Politicians are skipping out of their responsibilities.

Politicians spend much of their time in office fundraising for re-election.

Politicians raise much of their election financing from corporate interests,
not the people, and thus have a diminishing obligation to the people.[1]

A vast minority of people elect our politicians because 50% of eligible voters
don't go to polls.

Most are rich old white men, not a representation of the people.[2]

We can do better.

[1][http://www.ted.com/talks/lawrence_lessig_we_the_people_and_t...](http://www.ted.com/talks/lawrence_lessig_we_the_people_and_the_republic_we_must_reclaim.html)

[2][http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_United_States_S...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_United_States_Senators)

~~~
gjm11
> Our government is broken. It is no longer by the people for the people.

Are there good grounds for thinking it was ever much more "by the people for
the people" than it is now?

~~~
forgotAgain
_Are there good grounds for thinking it was ever much more "by the people for
the people" than it is now?_

Teddy Roosevelt's national parks.

~~~
russell
Teddy Roosevelt's trust busting.

~~~
zArtLaffer
That was populist pandering based on some sensationalist fictions. Getting
personal political gain by capitalizing on outrage ginned up through the
activities of several yellow journalists. Some of the worst (not the only!)
behavior in the name of progressivism in our (American) history.

For the record, I used to _really_ like this guy, until I read more about the
era from some real (not high-school) history books and analysis pieces.

------
fnordfnordfnord
Friday afternoon briefings and statements like the following (paraphrased):
"All congressmen have been briefed and are fully aware of the NSA's totally
legit and above board program. There is simply nothing to see here, and making
a big fuss about it compromises everyone's safety."

Reminds me of this:

"But Mr Dent, the plans have been available in the local planning office for
the last nine months."

"Oh yes, well as soon as I heard I went straight round to see them, yesterday
afternoon. You hadn't exactly gone out of your way to call attention to them,
had you? I mean, like actually telling anybody or anything."

"But the plans were on display ..."

"On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them."

"That's the display department."

"With a flashlight."

"Ah, well the lights had probably gone."

"So had the stairs."

"But look, you found the notice didn't you?"

"Yes," said Arthur, "yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked
filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying
'Beware of the Leopard'."

------
linuxhansl
It seems that rather than attracting the best of the best to lead this country
we managed to arrive at a process that reliably picks the most self serving
crooks this country has to offer and allow them to run this country.

With a few exceptions nobody in congress seems to actually care even a bit
about the people, but only how to drive the personal agenda forward.

It's the same in Europe. Apparently representatives are actually paid by
attendance, so what they do is, they come to the session, sign in their names,
and then leave.

~~~
mpyne
Has no one ever noticed how poorly the leadership of our democracies are
treated?

It's understood in the commercial sector that you _have to pay_ (both on
benefits, quality of work/life balance, pay, etc.) to attract and retain the
best and brightest talent.

How can we all take that very important lesson and completely throw it away
when considering the leadership of an entire nation?

I'm not sure I'd take Pres. Obama or Rep. Boehner's jobs for a million bucks,
so how are we supposed to get the "best of the best" leading the country, when
they're off leading the Fortune 500?

EDIT: People, there are reasons I mentioned things other than actual cash
compensation when I referred to pay and benefits. You can almost literally
watch the President of the United States age in front of your very eyes
nowadays.... so I'm not saying the job of public service _doesn 't pay
enough_, I'm saying the job is so stressful that it's _not possible to pay
enough_ , as money quickly loses its motivational appeal once you make enough
to live comfortably.

~~~
AnthonyMouse
I think you're almost onto something here, but I think the problem is not
compensation or benefits. It's that the President has too much power.

And if I may quote Spider Man, _with great power comes great responsibility_.
The constitution wasn't written under the assumption that the federal
government would ever be as large as it is. It isn't set up for it. So the
President is in charge of too much and is consequently spread too thin for any
one person to handle.

Here's the problem: The number of officers of the federal executive branch who
are elected: One. Just One.

Compare that to anything else. In any given state you'll elect the governor,
but you'll also elect the mayor of each city and possibly the sheriff, etc. I
want to _vote_ for the head of the FBI. I want to _vote_ for the head of the
IRS. Stop putting it all at the feet of the President.

~~~
aswanson
I never thought of this, but this is a brilliant observation. From the
presidency, we get issuances forth like Carmen Ortiz, heads of FEMA like Mike
Brown, etc. The possibility of cronyism writ large, with decades of
consequence. This has to change.

------
spinchange
The icing on the cake is that Senate staff are prohibited from reading any
classified materials Snowden leaked that are published in the press.

[http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2013/06/14/senate-
st...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2013/06/14/senate-staffers-
told-to-pretend-top-secret-documents-are-not-widely-available-on-web/)

(Legislators rely on their staff for input, research, background and
assistance in making decisions)

~~~
mike_herrera
Interesting.

So self-serving Congressional insider-trading on privileged information is
kosher, but performing the People's business with information which is now
public is not.

------
huhtenberg
Given the Father's Day weekend, it wasn't hard to guess that the attendance
will be low, so the question is why the briefing was still scheduled for that
particular spot. I bet they are trying to tell us something...

~~~
ldng
It's the usual trick for any hot or controversial matter. They hope nobody
will see and/or complain. This trick is outrageous and used way too often.

------
leetrout
Is there anywhere online that lists the members that did attend? I would love
to see if my state's senator was present.

------
ck2
Not an excuse at all but part of the problem of our system, why they run home
so fast, is they are constantly fundraising for their next election. They
spend a massive amount of time in office just fundraising.

Not sure how this can ever be fixed.

~~~
misiti3780
easy solution: term limits

~~~
deelowe
better solution: comprehensive campaign financing reform (e.g. all donations
must be done by an individual, strict limits on the amount of financing,
limits on the amount of advertising and type that candidates are allowed to
do, public disclosure of donors, amounts, and campaign spending etc...)

~~~
jivatmanx
The fungibility of money and nature of speech makes this hard to do without
limiting free speech in some way.

~~~
TheLegace
I disagree. Since when is money classified as free speech?

~~~
jivatmanx
Where can do you draw a line between supporting a cause and supporting a
candidate?

------
lettergram
To be fair, I doubt I would attend the classified briefing. The point is the
senators represent the peoples interest (specifically the states interest), if
the state does not want it, then they shouldn't get it.

Also, each senator should receive the briefing in paper. They never need to
attend unless it is being voted upon.

------
wil421
Glad to see at least one of my senators attended those meetings and doesn't
remember being briefed about phone metadata collection (Johnny Isakson R-Ga).

But then again the Director of National Intel James Clapper said that he
understands that "collect data" would mean they take a book off the shelf and
read it. Not that they have a giant bookshelf of data that is possibly yours
and mine.

Just another politician type doing some CYA. We will see more to come.

[1] [http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/intel-dir-james-clapper-
lie-c...](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/intel-dir-james-clapper-lie-congress-
complicated/t/story?id=19390786)

------
protomyth
The real question is why this was scheduled at a time that was pretty much
guaranteed to conflict with the Senator's schedule? Scoring political points
by foolishness is getting a tad old.

[edit for branch]

------
dnautics
they're not attending because it's theatre. the NSA briefers are going to read
from the script, no difficult questions are going to be asked, and even if
they were, since it's secret, the public wouldn't get to see it so it doesn't
matter.

------
dashr
Its important to note that some will NOT want to attend a classified briefing
because they will then be bound NOT to discuss what they have heard in that
classified meeting.

------
brianobush
Wonder if they would care (and attend) more if they were paid on the
percentage of briefings attended.

~~~
forgotAgain
They _are_ paid for attending the meetings that are important to their
patrons'. The rest of the meetings are strictly a PITA for them.

------
GeneralMayhem
Same article was linked on Reddit; the top thread there points out that the
meeting must have intentionally been scheduled to make this happen. It's
common knowledge in DC that Congress is in session from Monday afternoon to
Thursday morning, because Congressmen and Senators have duties in their home
districts (listening to constituents bitch at them) that they have to take
care of on Friday/over the weekend, and it takes them at least an afternoon's
flight to get home.

Don't blame the reps for not being there, at least not too harshly. Blame the
asshats who WANTED the meeting to be underattended to provoke exactly this
reaction rather than actually letting their arguments speak for themselves.

------
ajays
It's obvious. Those who know the details don't feel like they need to attend.
They know they'll learn nothing new; why waste their time?

Which begs the question: why didn't they speak up earlier? They probably would
have, if they cared. The ruling class in this country knows that they won't be
affected by these shenanigans. HSBC launders 100s of Billions of dollars for
drug traffickers (sometimes literally accepting bags full of cash, and staying
open late to do so), and no one goes to jail.

------
niels_olson
I think the senators who did this decided it would play better now that they
skipped it, than what they suspected would come out in the briefing, which
they would then be demonstrably complicit in by having knowledge of.
Accomplices after the fact. They decided this _very_ thin veneer of plausible
deniability was the better option.

------
cinquemb
"Am now quite certain, that the crimes of this guilty land will never be
purged away but with blood." -John Brown

------
e3pi
Re: “...It’s hard to get this story out. Even now we have this big briefing —
we’ve got Alexander, we’ve got the FBI, we’ve got the Justice Department, we
have the FISA Court there, we have Clapper there — and people are leaving,”
she said.

This constant drone of Clapper-speak unbridled lying is taxing for even these
people.

------
pkill17
> Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.), one of the chief critics of the surveillance
> programs, was spotted leaving the briefing.

Presumably leaving out of disgust for Clapper's lies; but the media will leave
it short like this to make it seem he's marginally apathetic.

~~~
mpyne
Isn't it his job as the elected Senator to call out Clapper on his 'lies' as
he says them? If all Sen. Paul was going to do was watch the video of his
testimony later then why schedule a hearing at all?

~~~
temp9251
How would he know what are lies? He isn't on the Senate Intelligence
Committee, the 15 people in Congress privileged enough to know the truth.

~~~
mpyne
Then how do _we_ know that Clapper is lying? We're not on the Intel Committee
either, are we? At least Sen. Paul gets invited to these things, we have no
access at all, so Sen. Paul is still in a much better situation to call out
Clapper on what we are all so convinced are a constant stream of lies.

~~~
temp9251
Sen. Wyden is on said Committee, and asked Clapper a question that, in
Clapper's own words, he answered with a "least untruth" statement that was
"too cute by half". This can be roughly translated as "a baldfaced lie".

Apart from that, I am personally unaware of any instances where DNI Clapper
has publicly lied.

Additionally, DNI Clapper appears to only answer prepared questions (i.e.
forwarded to his office prior to the discussion). I'm not sure if this is
standard protocol for Congress, and for obvious reasons I also don't know if
this applies to private briefings.

~~~
mpyne
Certainly you'd send a list of prepared questions if you were holding a
hearing to get answers. Otherwise the guy might be able to plausibly claim
that he doesn't have the details and would have to get back to them.

If you're holding a hearing just to ask a trap question on camera then you
might deliberately not send prepared questions, but I would like to think my
elected representatives have more respect for people than that.

------
straight_talk
Yeah, schedule the worst stuff at times with fewest senators available. Same
way the Federal Reserve Act was passed a century ago on December 22, 1913.

------
stretchwithme
If there's no exotic location and free golf involved, fact finding doesn't
appeal to them.

------
godgod
Now you see who they work for. It's not us.

