
Oculus Quest 2 - sidhanthp
https://www.oculus.com/blog/introducing-oculus-quest-2-the-next-generation-of-all-in-one-vr-gaming/
======
cwhiz
Please, anyone, desperately anyone, literally anyone, please, for the love of
god, make a competing headset that doesn’t have this deep Facebook integration
bullshit.

I do not want to see this become the Oasis.

~~~
someperson
At this point it's clear that Facebook have "won" VR. At least for the current
generation that's mostly focused on gaming.

The original Oculus Quest is already really good, and was constantly sold out
for almost its entire lifetime, and now Facebook are selling a near-4K
resolution headset with a top-of-the-line Snapdragon XR2 for $299.

I have been considering starting an open firmware project for the Oculus Quest
2 (Snapdragon XR2), and too a lesser extent, the Oculus Quest (Snapdragon 835)
and Oculus Go (Snapdragon 821).

All 3 headsets are Android-based devices. Clearly, most of Facebook's
innovations have been deep in the stack. The sensor fusion involved in 6DOF
tracking and the approach taken for Oculus Link PC tethering are non-trivial
problems that have taken entire teams of people years of work.

It would be many man-years of work to reverse engineer and re-implement
Facebook's work to the quality level seen in the Quest.

But it can be done, and it would mean liberating the best value VR headset
hardware on the market.

A hardware platform that is poised to dominate over at least the next decade.

This is Hacker News. Is anyone else interested?

~~~
kruczek
> At this point it's clear that Facebook have "won" VR.

Eh, it doesn't look clear at all to me. It looks like its main advantage is
slightly higher resolution than Valve Index and wirelessness. On the other
hand from what I read Quest 2 only now will finally get 90Hz - this is what
even old Vive provided. And Index goes beyond that - up to 120 and 144Hz. Also
I wonder how Quest's screen quality compares to Index, besides resolution and
refresh rate - couldn't find any information about Quest's field of view,
pixel persistence or fill factor. And with Facebook behind Quest, I consider
Index to be cheaper - I'll take $999 any day over $299 + my data.

I'd say it's hardly a clear "win".

~~~
kbenson
> And with Facebook behind Quest, I consider Index to be cheaper - I'll take
> $999 any day over $299 + my data.

All that really means is you have enough disposable income that it's actually
a decision worth even considering. For most people it's aimed at that's not
the case.

This isn't Gmail for free vs some paid service for $5/mo, this is more than
three times the cost for something that already costs multiple hundreds of
dollars.

~~~
arijun
Not to mention you need a relatively beefy PC with Windows installed to use
the Index.

~~~
account42
The Index works just fine under Linux.

------
wlesieutre
$300 is a pretty big deal for pricing on a VR headset, that feels very
different from $400 for wide adoption.

Seems like this is also the end of the road for Rift, the Quest 2 is lower
cost, more pixels, and they mentioned 90 hz screens for PCVR games over Link.

EDIT - review units went out in advance, so 3rd party reviews are already up.
Here's one from Tested:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x6lux6f_6g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x6lux6f_6g)

~~~
superkuh
The Rift is a VR head mounted display for a beefy PC. The Quest is an entire
computer system powered by battery and tiny in surface area. They're different
products for different markets. Anything in a mobile form factor as your VR
computer will necessarily be limited for either shorter time periods or
significantly less graphical fidelity.

~~~
wlesieutre
Rift S is being discontinued, if you want a dedicated PC headset now you'll
want to look at an Index or an HP Reverb G2.

But you can plug the Quest into a PC and use it as a PCVR headset. Oculus
sells a 16 ft fiber optic cable for $80, but it works well over any good
quality USB 3 cable (and even works over USB 2 now).

The downside of this is that it's more front heavy than a PC headset without
all the standalone guts, and I'm sure there's non-zero latency for running the
video stream over a USB connection rather than a standard video cable. It
works pretty well though, I think the trade-offs are absolutely worth the
benefits of having a standalone headset.

~~~
wlesieutre
Also check out [https://www.vrdesktop.net/](https://www.vrdesktop.net/) for PC
streaming, this option works wirelessly and performs very well as long as you
have a fast and stable wifi connection.

The version on the Oculus Store doesn't do SteamVR streaming though, you have
to buy it and then sideload an alternate version (which still checks for a
license from the store).

There's supposed to be some sort of easier sideloading system coming
(currently you need to sign up for a developer account and enable developer
mode), but no new info since that was announced a few months ago.

~~~
brainbag
This is interesting, though I'm ready to move past the limitations of
emulating real world single-screen setups. I want a virtual window manager
where I can move and organize windows just like the desktop, but in 3D around
me.

~~~
wlesieutre
[https://mspoweruser.com/facebook-infinite-office-virtual-
off...](https://mspoweruser.com/facebook-infinite-office-virtual-office-space-
vr/)

Pixel density isn't as high as what you'll get on a real monitor, but having
lots of them ought to help make up for it.

Carmack brought this up in his talk last night, apparently with the higher
pixel count in the Quest 2 the quality is now limited by the fresnel lens
optics, and they won't be able to just keep bumping the pixel count up to
improve visuals. So it's not clear what the path is to higher quality VR is
for them. People have made headsets with more exotic multi-element glass
optical setups, but there are trade-offs for cost, weight, and likelihood of
things breaking if you knock it off a table.

------
theptip
Getting torn to shreds in the Ars Technica review:
[https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/09/review-we-do-not-
reco...](https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/09/review-we-do-not-recommend-
the-299-oculus-quest-2-as-your-next-vr-system/)

Even excluding the hard requirement on a Facebook account it seems there were
a lot of compromises made to get the price down.

~~~
Jonanin
There is something odd about this Ars review. It’s not the normal high quality
review I expect from them. There is a lot of subjectivity and plain wrong
things stated (like less IR sensors in the controller). The only legit
criticisms I picked up are the IPD adjustment and the FB requirement.

~~~
theptip
Plus the worse head strap and subjectively worse controller responsivity,
though seems like some confusion on what is actually different vs. the gen 1
controllers.

If it’s a lower refresh rate and Beat Saber plays worse, that’s a big deal. As
you say it’s a subjective analysis so I’ll be looking for others to
corroborate or clarify that point.

~~~
ilaksh
I asked Norm from Tested in his post-review AMA today if he also felt the
tracking was worse in the Quest 2 and he said he did not feel that way. In the
AMA he also said that the refresh rate was the same but had the option to go
to 90 hz if developers programmer for it and the option was on.

------
moh_maya
We develop industrial training solutions using the rift S and quest. But the
deep linking with FB, the battery downgrades on the quest, etc, all are going
to push us away.

For PC-based training sims, we'll probably get the HTC Vive. And the Pico for
the quest equivalent.

~~~
TwoBit
Why do care about the Facebook link? You needed an Oculus account previously
and a Facebook account now, but there's no forcing of Facebook on you.

~~~
deskamess
Will the Oculus account continue to work? Otherwise they are forcing Facebook
on me.

~~~
ccktlmazeltov
I think it's fine to not buy a product if you don't want to create an online
account

~~~
emsy
It's fine to buy a product and expect it not to require an intrusive violation
of my privacy to use it. I hope lawmakers will completely bar this practice
for all devices.

------
swalsh
It's really great to see VR coming down in price and becoming more
accessible... but it's coming at the cost of quality, and it's bringing the
rest of VR down with it. As an example, Onward VR recently added support for
Quest in its game. The process of doing so required a significant scale down
in the quality of graphics, sound, and all kinds of things that were great
about the game. Over night the game took a nose dive, and that's not even
mentioning the complete community change that came along with it.

EDIT: here's a video with examples:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVgxk0ytTyI&feature=emb_titl...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVgxk0ytTyI&feature=emb_title)

~~~
chaostheory
While I primarily use my Vive Index with base stations, I love what the Quest
is doing for the VR industry as a whole. While I really like my prosumer VR
setup with base stations. It also sucks for the following reasons:

1\. Sure, nothing beats it for visual quality and performance, but it is
expensive. Minimum $999 AND you need a beefy PC with an equally beefy Nvidia
GPU so the real minimum is really around $2499 with PC vs $299 for a Quest 2.
That's a $2200 difference.

2\. It is a pain to setup. You either have to deal wires and wire control on
the ceiling, or if you have a Vive Pro, then you can spend another $299 to
install a wireless option bringing the total cost to $2798. Let's not forget
the base stations. While nothing beats them for tracking accuracy and the fact
that they're the only option for full body tracking, it's yet another pain to
set up. You might either drill holes in your walls, or you might buy camera
tripods as a pricier alternative $25-$79 each on sale. Of course, once you set
it up it's a dream, but the initial hill to climb is high.

What Oculus and PSVR are doing is expanding the market for VR and
democratizing it so that it's no longer a niche hobby for a select few
techies. Also, it is 'Apple'ing' VR. You just plug and play. You don't have to
go through a convoluted setup that even some techies will balk at. i.e. I can
buy this for my mom as a fitness machine.

Facebook and crossplay will also fix the problem of empty multiplayer games.

On a side note, I believe Onward devs are working to revert the PC VR Steam
graphics. It's also good to note that it's just one game.

I will definitely be buying an Oculus Quest 2.

~~~
dummydata
I have a Valve Index as well, but I don't understand how it is a pain to
setup. It's basically like putting two picture frames on the wall.

It's good to see that more consumers will come onboard with this insanely good
price. I don't know if it is needed to propel VR forward, but at least more
people can experience it.

~~~
chaostheory
You're probably the same type of person who also doesn't understand why it's
such a pain for anyone else to build their own PC rather than just buying it
outright.

I had that pain with base station 1.0 with the Vive Pro. Why?

1\. As I've already mentioned, not everyone wants to drill into their walls.
Some people who live in certain types of apartments can't even if they wanted
to. Now you need to figure out how to best setup camera tripods

2\. The base stations need line of site to each other. You can't just focus on
getting the perfect view of the play area.

3\. If you can't get line of site depending on your room configuration and
furniture, then you need to buy a 100 ft or longer cord to connect them, or
you have to deal with your headset or controllers not being tracked. ie. not
working

Base Station 2.0?

1\. If two base stations isn't enough for your play area due to room
configuration or furniture layout, then you may need to buy more base stations
which cost $200 (each?).

Sure, set up could be as easy as you remember it, but it could easily get
complicated, and it's a hassle. I don't enjoy hanging picture frames.

~~~
nshepperd
I screwed the base stations into a piece of wooden 2x4, and stuck the latter
to the wall with two bits of Command hanging tape. Super easy. The kit ought
to come with these pieces imo.

~~~
chaostheory
That's a lot of work for many people, and let's be honest many wouldn't even
know how to do that let alone have have random pieces of wood in their house.
Not to mention you've ignored all of the points I've brought up. I also really
love external base stations. Nothing compares in terms of accuracy. Still I
feel it's useful to not be so enamored with something that you're no longer
able to look at them objectively. You've also forgotten the part about base
stations being expensive and it's a hassle to go to the hardware store just
for setting up VR.

------
legohead
> Quest 2 requires your Facebook account to login

That's a strange barrier to entry. I haven't had a FB in years, and have zero
interest in going back, not even for some great hardware.

~~~
ccktlmazeltov
That's quite a light barrier to entry to download online games

~~~
choward
I disagree completely. I absolutely refuse to have a Facebook account linked
to my identity that Facebook uses to spam people asking if they know me.

~~~
_iyig
Just make a throwaway Facebook account, then. That's what I did for my Quest
and it works fine.

~~~
cwhiz
They very explicitly said it has to be a “real name” account. Enough to make
me question the strategy of a throwaway account. I bet they’re going to match
your credit card against your FB profile to see if your account is authentic.
At the minimum they’re going to require you to create an account with your
real name.

The whole thing is sickening to me. Congress should unwind the Oculus purchase
ASAP.

~~~
jakear
Last time I tried to make a throwaway it got flagged pretty quickly and they
had me submit photos of myself. I just picked some from the internet and they
permanently locked the account. I wouldn’t risk it considering I’d have assets
tied to the account (games), which presumably would be lost if their all-
powerful neural net were to take as input my account data and output a value
higher than some threshold.

------
mark_l_watson
I was surprised that it was $100 less expensive than the Quest I bought last
year. I ordered a Quest 2.

I have always enjoyed writing game software more than playing games. The Quest
changed that, I use it every day. (I worked on VR at SAIC, games for Nintendo,
and VR for Disney.)

I think FB priced this for huge adoption. I have totally loved the Star Wars
Vader Immortal trilogy so I can’t wait for the Star Wars game. Other favorites
are ping pong, racket ball, and some of the 3D art people post.

------
moron4hire
I'm really curious to see an engineering presentation on the Quest 2, how it
utilizes the XR2 hardware, and what it adds on top. From my understanding, the
XR2 is capable of doing all the tracking on its own. The previous gen of
hardware was based on the 835, which did not have SLAM on-chip, and thus
Oculus' tracking algorithms were the big value-add over the competition.

And originally, Oculus was behind the curve on hadware implementations. The
Lenovo Mirage Solo was the first 6-DOF headset, a year prior to the Quest,
also running the 835. The Vive Focus was in the middle of the two. So, if the
XR2 is doing the heavy lifting, it would suggest a big roadblock for
competitor devices has been lifted.

So how much of the Quest 2 is above and beyond the Qualcomm XR2 VR headset
reference design minus Facebook's services integrations?

~~~
bryan_w
The quest now has finger tracking which I imagine is still done in SW.

------
pluc
Pretty scathing review on Ars:

[https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/09/review-we-do-not-
reco...](https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/09/review-we-do-not-recommend-
the-299-oculus-quest-2-as-your-next-vr-system/)

~~~
Someone1234
As an owner of Q1 all I wanted from Q2 was:

\- Reduce or re-distributed weight (neck/upper back ache remains an issue)

Instead, what we got in the Q2 is the same weight but a head-strap that's a
substantial downgrade. That decision just compounds the Q1's most glaring
weakness.

Then throw in the mandatory Facebook account, downgraded eye adjustments,
side-grade screen, downgrade battery life, and a bunch of cost-cutting all
over: You just killed Quest.

I've gone from recommending Quest to outright recommending _against_ Quest.
They should have taken some weight out of the headset and put it in a box that
goes in your pocket, not kept the weight and made a bad head-strap _even_
worse.

Even with the $50 headstrap "upgrade" it is still worse than the HTC Vive
Deluxe Audio Strap which many Q1 owners including myself own (via 3D printed
adapter).

~~~
modeless
I disagree with almost everything you said. Firstly it's not the same weight;
it's 10% lighter. If you want a better head strap then you can get the
official upgraded one and combined it's still cheaper than Quest 1. Tested's
review [1] says battery life is the same, plus there's now a battery strap you
can buy to double it _and_ balance the weight distribution. Tested also says
the controller tracking is not worse, audio is better, and all things
considered the screen is a significant improvement. Then of course there's the
extra RAM and upgraded SoC.

The only serious downgrade here IMO is the IPD adjustment, but for the vast
majority of people it's not an issue. In other ways it's a clear improvement.
I won't be getting one as I have an Index, but this is going to sell more than
any other headset. The tech and the price are both incredible.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x6lux6f_6g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x6lux6f_6g)
Tested's review is the one to trust. Norm knows his stuff.

Edit: Ah I see about the weight, you must have been talking about the weight
combined with the upgraded headstrap, which does indeed make it heavier than
Quest 1, by about 7%. I'll reserve judgement on comfort until I try it. Quest
1 wasn't exactly comfortable for me but it's about more than just the weight
number.

~~~
augstein
According to a Review by Ars Technica, the 10% weight saving comes from the
flimsier headstrap.

I also think Facebook is kind of admitting they messed up the headstrap, if
they have to sell a proper one separately.

~~~
modeless
The reduced cost and increased portability make it clearly the right choice
for the product IMO. Cost and convenience are the #1 and #2 barriers keeping
people out of VR. Once people see the value they can decide to spend on the
headstrap for upgraded comfort.

~~~
Someone1234
They didn't increase portability from the Quest 1 though.

All they've done is forced the consumer to pick between portability but a bad
user experience or no-portability, $50 cost, and a basically acceptable one.

At least the Quest 1's headstrap was basically passable, this isn't.

~~~
modeless
The cloth headstrap is absolutely more portable than Quest 1. The $50 upgrade
cost is more than compensated by the $100 discount on the headset itself.

------
haberman
As someone who only barely follows VR, what benefits would this have over the
upcoming HP Reverb G2 besides price?

I was eying the HP Reverb G2 for high resolution, and for its Microsoft Flight
Simulator support.

EDIT: ah I just found this:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/HPReverb/comments/it5jvj/hp_reverb_...](https://www.reddit.com/r/HPReverb/comments/it5jvj/hp_reverb_g2_vs_oculus_quest_2/)

~~~
bufferoverflow
If you're going to ignore 2X the price, why not compare to Pimax 8K?

~~~
haberman
Maybe I should! I didn't know about the Pimax 8K.

Will all of these have access to the same software titles, or are they built
on closed or incompatible software ecosystems?

~~~
numpad0
Most headset support SteamVR, either natively or through compatibility layers,
but not sure about the other way around e.g. MSFS20 on Index. Pimax is
SteamVR.

e: TIL, WMR as platform do have support for SteamVR headsets
[https://store.steampowered.com/app/719950/Windows_Mixed_Real...](https://store.steampowered.com/app/719950/Windows_Mixed_Reality_for_SteamVR/)

------
Monitor2019
Genuine question - if this was the perfect AR/VR device, would you use it even
though it is a FB product? I have real concerns about privacy and the need to
log in with FB credentials, but I am also very hopeful for devices that can
continue to grow the market and help take it mainstream.

~~~
reader_mode
What's the privacy concern here ? Facebook knows what I do in VR ? I don't
necessarily want that but TBH I don't really care about it either - I don't
plan on using it for anything compromising anyway and I'm bombarded by
advertisement spam everywhere to the point of immunity.

~~~
slipheen
I don't want or need a Facebook account, and I don't want their software
running on my machine.

They've shown to be bad actors in the past with harvesting as much data as
possible, even on people who don't have accounts.

~~~
reader_mode
I can see that, but TBH I already use their products, the benefit outweigh the
cost so not much changes here.

------
how2draw
So, are there any sex games or is this going to be yet another walled
kindergarten like we're used to nowadays?

~~~
blensor
They actually have a kind of strange app ecosystem at the moment. They have
their own very restrictive store which is hard to get into and a thriving
sideloading community [1] which allows you to run anything you want and is
actually inoficially accepted by FB. It's very easy to list your game there
and you can reach ~1Mio Quest users with it. I developed my own full-body
fitness game [2] there which would never make it into the official store

[1] [https://sidequestvr.com](https://sidequestvr.com) [2]
[https://vrworkout.at](https://vrworkout.at)

~~~
chaostheory
I played your game on Steam. Good work! I hope to see more.

On a side note, it's strange that Steam doesn't have a fitness category yet.

~~~
blensor
Oh wow, that's awesome! You can add tags to a steam title but I guess VR
fitness is not mainstream enough yet. I'm currently working on a battle mode
where the physical exercise is the measure to score points against your
opponent and a little tactical element by having to decide between offense and
defense in each exercise, but that's not ready yet. And another feature that
is coming or almost ready is the targeted HR training (set a HR target and the
game will adapt to you during the session)

~~~
WrtCdEvrydy
Holy shit, this is amazing!

~~~
blensor
The HT target mode is already in the beta and ready for testing, but will get
even better with a future VRHealth Institute app as they are planning to add
cardio profiles with varying intensity and that will be supported by VRWorkout

------
mouldysammich
the whole mandatory facebook thing has made me want to sell my quest. Its a
shame, I think its truely the best device out there. I was able to play have
life alyx totally wirelessly and enjoy the full experience, and I dont think
there is anything close out there to emulate this.

~~~
mrfusion
I thought half life requires a cable to the pc?

~~~
Rebelgecko
There's 3rd party software like OpenALVR (FOSS) and Virtual Desktop ($ but
works better IMO) that let you stream PC VR games wirelessly

~~~
worldsayshi
I'm using Virtual Desktop and it works flawlessly with Alyx. It's so puzzling
that you need to enable developer mode and sideload stuff to enable wireless
while they allow you to connect with a cable out of the box.

~~~
mrfusion
Is there a tutorial on how to get alyx running like you describe?

~~~
worldsayshi
There are a bunch of good tutorials out there. I don't remember which one I
followed so I can't recommend anyone specific.

------
MBCook
Battery doesn’t last as long as the old version (which didn’t exactly have
fantastic battery life in the first place).

And you’ll soon HAVE to use your FB account with it.

Interesting they’ve killed the Rift S. So they’re all in on the Quest.

~~~
wlesieutre
There's an official accessory strap with battery now, if battery is a problem.
Helps with balance, I've done a similar setup with a 3D printed bracket and a
power bank.

~~~
ccktlmazeltov
[https://www.oculus.com/accessories/quest-2-elite-strap-
batte...](https://www.oculus.com/accessories/quest-2-elite-strap-battery-
case/) where is the battery in this thing??

~~~
wlesieutre
It's the curved white chunk on the back

------
rainyramen
I wonder how the FB leadership team thinks about this whole FB/Oculus
integration. It is clear that they think adding a "social" component to Oculus
is going to help the Quest gain traction.

But the question is, why does that "social" component have to be Facebook?
With all the negative baggage a FB account carries with it, maybe the easier
option would've been to let Oculus build its own social model, à la Play
Station Network-style?

~~~
ccktlmazeltov
I have a Quest and I can tell you that for me (and at least for people like
me) the real value is in social games/experiences. I have a hard time going
through a solo game (although I haven't tried Half Life Alyx yet) but social
stuff are amazing! Everyone should try to play settlers of Catan in VR (it was
only available on the Go unfortunately) which was insane!

At this point I just want more of my friends to get a Quest so that I can hang
out with them in VR. I already communicate with these friends via facebook so
for me it's natural that this would work out perfectly.

~~~
okramcivokram
I also have a Quest and I can tell you that for me there was absolutely no
value in social stuff.

~~~
fomine3
Same here.

------
spdustin
I'm sure I'm deeply in the minority here, but I still wish PCVR (or a native
headset/driver) worked on Mac. My MBP's graphics are beefy enough to handle
the sort of games or experiences I'd want to enjoy in VR.

I had the DK2 when Mac was still supported, and even my old MacBook Air could
drive it well enough to enable some pretty enjoyable experiences from third
parties writing for it. The solar system tour in particular was a favorite of
mine.

Granted, it's not a hardcore gamer-friendly setup, but there was still a lot
to enjoy, and even develop for.

~~~
chaostheory
> My MBP's graphics are beefy enough to handle the sort of games or
> experiences I'd want to enjoy in VR.

As a fellow Mac user, I highly doubt it's the case anymore unless you're going
to limit yourself to Beat Saber.

1\. Most games are not optimized for the Mac to put it lightly.

2\. Mobile GPUs just don't cut it when you're running VR and displaying on 2-3
screens at once

You really don't have a choice but to either go with Facebook or Steam PC for
VR, for now at least. Who knows when Apple will risk it with another potential
paradigm shift, but if they're still going with the 'just glasses' Jony Ive
route, it will be years.

~~~
dangoor
> 2\. Mobile GPUs just don't cut it when you're running VR and displaying on
> 2-3 screens at once

The Oculus Quest has been doing VR acceptably on mobile _phone_ GPUs for 15
months.

A recent Mac laptop's GPU should be able to handle at least as good an
experience as the Quest.

~~~
chaostheory
The Oculus Quest has games that directly target it on its on platform. Most
Steam VR games expect a PC with a reasonably, powerful GPU. Macs don't even
run Nvidia GPUs

Most of Apple leadership just doesn't care enough about games. Sure they care
a lot more now, but imo still not enough at the detriment of the Mac line. imo
Jony Ive placed too much of an emphasis on form instead of function for AR /
VR. If Mike Rockwell won the internal politics at Apple for his separate VR
hub, maybe we'd have well supported VR for Mac by now... but nope.

~~~
dangoor
I see what you mean. Good point. Thanks!

------
bryanlarsen
This gets a really poor review from Ars Technica:
[https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/09/review-we-do-not-
reco...](https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/09/review-we-do-not-recommend-
the-299-oculus-quest-2-as-your-next-vr-system/)

The downgraded controllers and the awkward IPD adjustment system are the deal
breakers for me.

From the review:

The takeaway: Bullet points for this review A better screen, both in pixel
resolution and refresh rate.

90Hz, but when? Facebook isn't clear about higher frame rate support.

More powerful wireless-VR hardware, which powers nifty under-the-hood tricks.

Less battery life. You'll barely exceed two hours of gaming on a single
charge.

A cheaper, flimsier headstrap. You can pay more for a nicer one.

A baffling change to the "IPD" slider. Only certain skulls need apply.

The controllers are the same... but worse. I'm a bit shocked by this one.

The F-word. Yeah, we'll get into that.

~~~
rektide
You missed the best/worst part!

> But Facebook's policies make that "standalone VR" magic harder to recommend
> this time around. As we've previously reported, Quest 2 requires a Facebook
> account to function; without one, you cannot run the system's built-in fork
> of Android, nor can you toggle the system's "developer" mode and sideload
> VR-optimized Android apps of your choosing. (Speaking of: New rules coming
> to the Facebook VR developer portal will soon force anyone who wants to
> sideload apps to either supply a working phone number or a credit card. Yes,
> that is separate from the FB account requirement.)

> Quite frankly, I had designs on testing Oculus Quest 2 with a burner
> Facebook account. I'd set one up years ago with a spam email address, and
> Facebook's reps asked me for my Facebook account address before they shipped
> me the review unit. I gave them my burner profile URL, then went to reset
> the password. By wrongly typing my new password one time, I was locked out.
> "Please send us proof of your identity," the site sternly warned me.

This is just the start of a long long section of the article on how Facebook
will, at the drop of a hat, ban you, remove access to all your purchased
software, & how invisible moderators haunt all your VR spaces.

All-in on evil, cruddy, awful policies. An affront to general-purpose
computing as the world had known & enjoyed it.

~~~
bryanlarsen
I think that's covered in the reviewer summary line "The F-word. Yeah, we'll
get into that. " F-word -> facebook. Subtle, but a great analogy.

------
d--b
There is one thing that will make me buy VR, it's a full field of vision.

They say virtual reality, but they sell virtual binoculars...

~~~
ccktlmazeltov
have you tried it? I have a Quest and I don't really understand your
complaint, as soon as you wear the headset you just forget about the real
world.

~~~
BillinghamJ
I have a Valve Index and love it. Yes it's immersive regardless, but VR still
has such a long way to go on the quality front. FOV is fairly poor, pixel
density is awful.

I'm looking forward to an actual "retina display"-like option (60+ PPD) with
higher FOV in another 5-10 years, but I'd assume that'll be 8K minimum per
eye, maybe more like 10-12K.

~~~
shpx
If you have $6,000 then the Varjo VR-2 headset has a 60 PPD (pixels per
degree) display embedded in the middle of a 15 PPD display.

[https://varjo.com/products/vr-2-pro/](https://varjo.com/products/vr-2-pro/)

~~~
BillinghamJ
Very very low FOV though, even considering the 15 PPD portion

------
tinyhouse
I'm thinking of pre-ordering it for my family. I'm not going to use my
personal FB account for this. I'm assuming one can open a new FB account just
for this, right? Also, is it worth getting the 256GB for extra $100? Never had
a VR device and not sure how many games/apps you can have on 64G.

~~~
utopcell
I don't think you can have a FB account that is not linked to a real name.

~~~
searchableguy
They regularly flag people and ask them for passport or other national IDs to
verify. If you make any purchases on the store, you have a chance to lose
either your ID or brought items.

------
kbenson
And _still_ no support for multiple profiles on one device. The opposite,
actually, since you have to link your FB profile.

I get it Facebook, you want me to buy one for each of my kids. That's not
going to happen, so all you're doing is annoying me. :/

------
nixass
Mandating to link Facebook account with this VR set screams red flags to me.

------
screye
I worry that Quest-2 will be the death of VR as the next UX frontier.

VR tech is still a few years away from being 'seamless'. Historically, such
moonshot ideas have only worked when they develop as expensive hobbies for
years, until the tech catches up and they can be offered at a reasonable
price.

Facebook seems to want to skip that step. Give people a half-baked product
before it is ready for the market.

It is a real shame, because all the tech needed for great VR getting better at
a rapid pace in consumer products. Mobile processing, Tiny/curved displays,
high refresh rate accommodations, low latency throughout the stack, battery
efficiency are all getting better FAST.

With a few killer games and apps for VR, we could have had a killer consumer
VR headset in 2-3 years. I worry that the Quest 2's half-bakedness will
forever ruin the reputation of VR in the eyes of your average person.

~~~
trixie_
5 years ago you would of been right.. the entire last decade we've seen the
tech maturing - Quest is at least gen 4 has been a smashing success. Quest 2
is a refinement of already mature technology.

Not sure where you're getting the impression that the Quest and especially the
Quest 2 is 'half baked'

~~~
dmarcos
I wish Facebook published numbers about units sold, games sold per device,
engagement, retention... Only shared figure is $150 million in total content
sales since launch (May 2019). That's presumably before 30% store cut so all
devs combined saw $100 million. Any single moderately successful AAA title
makes more than $150 million on launch week. I know is not Apples to Apples
but puts the number in perspective.

------
yboris
I'm an Oculus CV1 owner and I still love it.

The next one I'm buying is the HP Reverb G2. The resolution is phenomenal:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZvPnd_xTBs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZvPnd_xTBs)
Consider it when you're deciding on a headset.

~~~
t0mbstone
Any VR headset with a tether is a dealbreaker for me, period.

------
whywhywhywhy
I still don't understand why Facebook management has allowed Instagram and
WhatsApp to exist where they pretend your account is a separate entity to
Facebook and just makes do with having it linked via shadow profile.

Yet with Oculus they're being so hard and forcing it into the FB
infrastructure at the most critical point in it's lifespan. Most tech critics
of it are all perfectly happy using Instagram, I just don't understand why
Oculus accounts couldn't have just remained the same as that other than some
executive being judged by some poorly thought out metrics and using this to
meet them.

------
butz
How do I bypass Facebook login and how do I use it on Linux?

~~~
fsflover
You can't:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24201306](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24201306)

------
cj
I’m hoping the improved graphics specs and refresh rate help people (like me)
who are sensitive to VR motion sickness.

~~~
shafyy
It most certainly will

------
chaostheory
The only thing strange on the VR front is I don't understand why Facebook
isn't promoting the fitness aspect of VR? I've already lost 20lbs just from
playing video games. It would definitely siphon some people away from peleton
like products if they did a marketing push in this direction.

It would be great if there was a central VR game hub that kept track of
fitness. I know YUR exists, but adoption isn't widespread because it's not
built into the platform.

~~~
maxton
In the keynote today, they did explicitly mention new fitness features like
calorie tracking with what they’re calling “Oculus Move”. There’s a link to an
article about it at the end of this blog post:

[https://www.oculus.com/blog/oculus-quest-platform-updates-
oc...](https://www.oculus.com/blog/oculus-quest-platform-updates-oculus-link-
exits-beta-introducing-oculus-move-and-more/)

~~~
chaostheory
Finally! Thank you for pointing it out

------
scotty79
I've planned to buy Valve index and this announcement gave me a pause. But
ultimately I'll be sticking with Index for 120hz refresh rate (vs 90hz of
Quest 2)

------
coding123
Price is too high, which has nothing to do with money. requires facebook
login.

~~~
tfigment
While I agree, is this really a new thing? I had a dev kit for oculus rift and
sometime after Facebook acquired when they stopped DX 9 support I couldn't use
the device after update and drivers where reaching out to Facebook endpoints.
I have that domain block and the device stopped working if it could not talk
to fb. I think it was slightly more than that but I gave up on it and
uninstalled it since I trust fb not at all. Felt bad throwing out that money
but without controller it wasn't that useful.

------
rwmj
Can anyone comment how well the latest VR headsets work for people who wear
spectacles?

~~~
ggreer
I've probably had a dozen people with glasses use my headset. None of them
seemed to have any issues with visual quality, though a couple had issues with
comfort. The Quest comes with a spacer for glasses. That works fine 90% of the
time, but some people's glasses are too big and can hit the lenses in the
headset. This can be uncomfortable and (more importantly) it can scratch the
lenses in the headset.

If you have glasses, I'd recommend getting some lens protectors for the
headset. They're usually around $10 and take a minute to apply.

~~~
GekkePrutser
I use the ALVR rubber ring surrounds. Works well but they smell horrible.

------
brutus1213
Really sad that they are getting out of PC based VR. That said, my rift has
been sitting in a corner for a year. I was really impressed from a technical
perspective and felt the tech showed great promise. Good for HTC I guess.

~~~
tomnipotent
> That said, my rift has been sitting in a corner for a year

Same. When "Half-Life: Alyx" was released, I started the motions of setting up
my Oculus with the sensor towers, remembered how tedious it was, and promptly
put it back. Sounds like the Quest 2 solves all of that.

~~~
jugg1es
I seriously doubt the Quest 2 will be able to run Alyx. My mid-range PC can't
handle it on the Oculus (I think due to some heavy lifting Steam had to do to
integrate with the Oculus)

~~~
jon-wood
Occulus Link allows tethering to a PC via a USB cable, and Virtual Desktop can
do SteamVR over WiFi. When I first heard of Virtual Desktop I was dubious, but
on a good quality network it’s ridiculously good.

~~~
worldsayshi
Indeed, I was very sceptical that it would work on my ISP provided wifi-router
but it worked flawlessly. Although I've only played Alyx where you probably
have some subconscious latency tolerance.

It's so strange that they don't package wifi based oculus link as an out of
the box feature.

~~~
jon-wood
It wouldn't surprise me to see it appear as a standard feature at some point,
but it'll take a while for them to tune it to properly cope with all the awful
wireless access points out there. Virtual Desktop can get away with
occasionally having problems connecting to your computer, or latency
introduced by being on a bad network, because its 3rd party software which
requires a bit of technical knowledge just to be able to get it installed with
SteamVR support. That filters out the people who aren't going to understand
the concept of network latency somewhat, but having it as a standard feature
would mean anyone with £300 to spend on a Quest is going to expect it to work
perfectly everytime.

------
Timpy
Is it possible to use a VR headset as a daily-driver desktop environment? I'm
interested in programming inside a VR desktop; not programming for VR, but
putting on a VR headset and writing code in a text editor inside a VR
environment. This is too nuanced for a search engine to return any meaningful
results. I was never that interested in VR until this idea occurred to me, so
I don't know if the technology is there yet. Surely somebody must have tried
this already?

~~~
devWithABlast
I have tried but not with the oculus yet. You have two methods: either you
remote VR into your desktop (Using tools such as Virtual Desktop), either you
host an IDE in a browser and then just use your browser (VSCode you can host
using coder.com self hosted).

My opinions are: It gets uncomfortable fairly quickly, I didn't want to use it
more than an hour. The DPI is much lower than my 2K desktop monitor. It gets
hot under the VR headset. In most conditions I prefer a Desktop or even a
laptop. I think one place where it might be cool is the airplane since even
laptops are uncomfortable.

------
Thaxll
I'm going to buy a RTX 3080 and was looking for a cheap VR headset...

------
msie
A good video review (Adam Savage's Tested):
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x6lux6f_6g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x6lux6f_6g)

------
karmakaze
The Quest has a resolution of 1440 × 1600 per eye. So the 50% more pixels
works out to 20% more scan lines (1920) and 27% more pixels/line (1832). 90 Hz
has potential perhaps via PC link.

~~~
GekkePrutser
Don't forget it's an RGB display with 3 subpixels per pixel. Quest 1 was 2
subpixels per pixel (pentile). You'll definitely see much more of an
improvement than 27%.

Pentile is not bad when the pixels are so small you can't see them. Under a
magnifying glass which a VR headset basically is, not so much.

~~~
karmakaze
I think where pentile went wrong was prioritizing green/red. I believe red has
the lowest spatial resolution and should have prioritized green/blue instead.
When using Night Shift I notice a definite subjective reduction in spatial
resolution.

------
alkonaut
I’m happy to be locked to a store when I use it as a gadget, but when I use it
as a PC VR headset, am I really stuck with Oculus store still? Why can’t any
title from Steam or wherever work?

~~~
jayd16
No you're not stuck. I've been playing HalfLife: Alyx on the first Quest.

------
xnx
I don't know all the tradeoffs involved, but seems like a downgrade to go from
the pure black of OLED to the backlight bleedthrough of LCD for a screen so
close to the eyes.

~~~
ShamelessC
Ghosting on completely black regions in Half Life Alyx was the only complaint
I had with my OLED HMD. I tried an LCD one and my brain was better at ignoring
the extra brightness than it was the ghosting.

------
shoulderfake
But I need a facebook account to use one of these dont I ?

~~~
ccktlmazeltov
you need an online account to download the games on the app store yes

------
trilinearnz
Really like the idea of not having to have a beefy PC off to the side. I'm an
enthusiast, but also have a job, so the prospect of having to sort this aspect
out represented a barrier to entry I wasn't willing to address.

On the negative side, the look of the device is still pretty "uncool". I think
some lessons there could be learned from the PS4 VR.

------
polskibus
I wonder about the CPU&GPU performance of Quest 2. The biggest pain point of
Quest 1 was low detail in the scenes in supported games, mainly due to low
spec. I know it's a compromise when you are not hooked with a cable to a PC,
but I wish they could use Apple's fastest ARM CPUs :)

------
jugg1es
I bought a rift S exactly one month ago. Disappointing to hear they are
discontinuing it next year.

------
brian_herman
I am not sure if VR is really ready for prime time I have owned a cv1 and a
oculus rift dev kit and after around a month I stop using it. it was fun
playing games like eve railjack and fps but it doesn’t seem to grab me. VR
still needs a killer app.

~~~
zmmmmm
You sound like someone who might change their opinion if you tried the Quest.
Standalone and tether-free just makes a world of difference to how you
perceive it. I use it intensively for exercise and that is pretty much a
killer app for me.

------
syspec
> We’re going to focus on standalone VR headsets moving forward. We’ll no
> longer pursue PC-only hardware, with sales of Rift S ending in 2021. That
> said, the Rift Platform isn’t going anywhere.

Well, actually it is isn't it?

~~~
evanextreme
Not necessarily. Since the Rift S launched and Oculus Link released, Facebook
changed the branding of games that require a PC to "Supports Rift Platform" to
signify that they can also be played on a tethered Quest. I expect they'll
change the name in the future though

~~~
fossuser
Yeah, but as someone who owned the Rift S and then bought a Quest - it turns
out there's a rude surprise that all the games you bought for the Rift S have
to be _bought again_ for the Quest.

The Rift S was a huge mistake, ironically I only bought it because when I
asked my friend working at Oculus which one to get he said to get the Rift S
(I suspected then they didn't care about it).

They should never have shipped it.

~~~
filoleg
> all the games you bought for the Rift S have to be bought again for the
> Quest.

Wrong on 2 accounts.

1\. A lot of games support cross-buy between Rift and Quest versions.

2\. For those that don't support cross-buy (or games that only have a Rift
version), and you already own them for Rift, you can play them on Quest just
fine by connecting it to your desktop either wirelessly (using software like
VRDesktop) or using a cable. Just like you were previously able to with Rift
(minus the wireless option, iirc it wasn't a thing for Rift).

Tl;dr: Quest is a superset of Rift's functionality. You can do everything with
Quest that you could do with Rift. Officially supported, without any hacks or
workarounds. If you had a game you purchased for Rift, you can play it on
Quest just as if you were playing it on Rift without paying anything extra.

~~~
fossuser
1 is not true for the games I had (which were the most popular ones including
beat saber).

Saying “just use a cable” or crappy streaming software to play games on the
quest when the entire point is to have a wireless device is lame.

Most people are going to assume if you buy something in the oculus store that
you can play it on oculus devices (unless it’s an issue related to device
performance which I can understand).

~~~
filoleg
Your original complaint was that you have to rebuy games you already bought
for Rift to be able to play them on Quest, which is not true. You can play
them on Quest the exact same way you were able to on Rift.

Also, wireless solution isn't "crappy". I tried Half-Life: Alyx using both
cable and wireless (VRDesktop) for an hour each, and ended up finishing the
game using wireless, because it felt more comfortable, and I didn't notice any
difference that I could actually spot.

~~~
fossuser
> "You can play them on Quest the exact same way you were able to on Rift."

Yeah, but the entire point of buying the Quest is so I don't have to play them
the exact way I was able to on the Rift.

For a comparison, what you're describing feels like this:

1\. I buy a videogame on steam and play it on my computer.

2\. I buy a new computer and download steam.

3\. Steam tells me that I have to rebuy the game to play it on new computer.

4\. Someone on HN says I can just connect my new computer to the old computer
in order to play the game and that this is 'the exact same way'.

Do you see how that's a shitty experience?

It's ridiculous that the quest version of the game is a separate thing you
have to buy even though it's the same store. Your solution relegates me to
being attached to the PC defeating the entire point of the quest. If the game
couldn't be played on the quest because it needed the PC's graphics that's one
thing, but this isn't that - beatsaber exists and works fine on the quest.

~~~
filoleg
>It's ridiculous that the quest version of the game is a separate thing you
have to buy even though it's the same store.

Again, this isn't Oculus' fault in this case, but the dev's. It is dev's
choice whether to offer their product as cross-buy or not.

And, in a lot of cases, it makes sense why they didn't do it. For example, if
the differences between versions are so stark that they are almost different
games, paying separately makes sense. For me, personally, about half of the
games I own that exist on both Rift and Quest were purchased with cross-buy,
so I didn't have to pay twice. And I like to support devs who do things in the
interests of the consumer with my wallet.

~~~
fossuser
I'd argue that it _is_ Oculus' fault, they own the platform and could force
the devs to do it if they want to be in the store.

Do you think Apple would put up with this kind of thing?

I buy a ton of software and I'm happy to support devs, but this isn't that.

Rebuying the same product from the same store to use on an iteration of the
Oculus' VR hardware sucks. My guess is they looked and figured it didn't
matter since there were so few Rift S owners.

Would you be okay with having to rebuy the same games every VR hardware
release?

> "And, in a lot of cases, it makes sense why they didn't do it. For example,
> if the differences between versions are so stark that they are almost
> different games, paying separately makes sense."

Sure, but that's not the case.

------
tehwebguy
Love my Quest but I basically only play Pavlov Shack, a game that requires
sideloading and I am somewhat sure will not come to the official Quest store.

Will probably end up selling mine and getting another brand.

~~~
ccktlmazeltov
didn't they say it would come to the store?

------
ekianjo
I love how they show people in the pictures who are in wide empty places with
just a single tree behind and no furniture and nothing on the floor. Is this
some kind of alien landscape?

------
Causality1
It's quite ironic that by attempting to force me to use a Facebook account,
all they've accomplished is forcing me to exclusively pirate my VR titles.

------
Robotbeat
This is pretty huge, although bummer with the Facebook deeplinking.

Much better resolution for just $300 including the controllers. That's the
price of a large monitor.

------
_mkef
Is anyone making a similar standalone without forced FB ?

------
wensley
Is is possible to quickly buy a quest 1 this month and be able to use an
Occulus account?

------
ekianjo
> Qualcomm® Snapdragon™ XR2 Platform offering higher AI capability

Now, having a CPU is considered AI?

------
k__
Did they say something about the FoV?

I have to admit, I would prefer more FoV instead of higher resolution.

~~~
pugworthy
There is a trade off though in terms of detail. You're essentially taking a
pixelated image and stretching it out more with just a FOV increase. The
result for your eyes is essentially increasingly greater simulated myopia.

~~~
k__
Okay, but having a bigger display with the same PPI instead of making it the
same size, but higher PPI should be perferable here, right?

------
sexpositivepriv
Not going to buy a device run by the most abusive spying company to watch porn
on.

------
mlindner
Avoid avoid avoid. [https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/09/review-we-do-not-
reco...](https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/09/review-we-do-not-recommend-
the-299-oculus-quest-2-as-your-next-vr-system/)

------
ifmpx
The specs are really good for the price and clean design is aesthetically
pleasing, but I won't be able to enjoy it knowing that facebook is behind it.

I can wait for their competitors to catch up :)

------
anon776
Can I watch netflix in bed with this?

~~~
MikusR
Yes

------
SubiculumCode
of course...right after I bought an oculus quest 1.

~~~
sputknick
Been there. But it's still a really good headset. I have one, you'll love it.

~~~
SubiculumCode
Oh im loving it, no doubt.

------
Jemm
What is the FOV?

------
tus88
More like 3D TVs "2".

------
aaroninsf
Anyone who buys into the Facebook borg today has blood on their hands.

There's no way to sugarcoat it, hand-wave about business units, make puppy dog
eyes about such smart well meaning people...

The culture and company behavior is fundamentally compromised, irredeemable to
all appearances, and is the bedrock of the contemporary severing of a
significant number of people not only from the political mainstream, but from
consensus reality.

It's a shame they bought Oculus. That renders it a non-option.

~~~
ccktlmazeltov
it's a very one-sided opinion

~~~
fsflover
So what is the opinion of the other side?

~~~
ccktlmazeltov
That it actually connects friends, and people, across communities and
countries?

~~~
fsflover
There is no contradiction here. What you say is true, yet FB does terrible
things at the same time.

~~~
ccktlmazeltov
But FB is not a "single" person

~~~
fsflover
Yes, it is:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20094034](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20094034)

------
devwastaken
Quest can't do VR titles. It will always be a niche mobile game market that
can't give VR justice. If they would integrate h264 hardware decode and
allowed the PC oculus software to stream to it, then we'd be in business.

Wireless VR is a big problem right now, it's expensive, doesn't work well, and
for it's price you might as well get better hardware.

Oculus should ship quest with a cheap little 5Ghz USB broadcaster that you can
put into your gaming PC and the oculus software can then stream through.
Everyone wants to be able to have no cords and tuck their PC into a corner,
not drag it with them.

~~~
jon-wood
> Wireless VR is a big problem right now, it's expensive, doesn't work well,
> and for it's price you might as well get better hardware.

There’s an app for the Quest called Virtual Desktop that allows streaming
SteamVR over WiFi, which on a good network is almost indistinguishable from
wired VR. Playing Half-Life: Alyx without being tethered to your computer is a
pretty awesome experience.

~~~
t0mbstone
and by "almost indistinguishable" you mean "nauseating lag every time you turn
your head"

~~~
filoleg
Nope. I played Half-Life: Alyx with both cable and wireless for the first few
hours, alternating, and ended up playing the rest of the game in full
wireless, because I haven't noticed any difference.

And I am saying that as someone who is fairly sensitive to this kind of stuff,
like, I can easily see the difference between 60hz and 144hz refresh rate on
monitors, for example (yes, i am aware that refresh rate and input delay are
different things, this was just an example).

~~~
Guillaume86
Same, for "flat" gaming I can barely tolerate in-home streaming, and just for
slow paced games. So I didn't have high expectations for VirtualDesktop but
when I tried it the experience pretty much blew my mind... only playing
wireless now.

