
Bird One Scooter – Pre-Order - samsolomon
https://shop.bird.co/pdp.html
======
cameldrv
This is a weird offering for an individual purchase. Look at the unique
features:

1\. Non folding stem: Adds durability for a rental, but the super quick fold
is a huge part of the appeal of a scooter, because it means you can easily
take it with you on the train, put it in the trunk of a car, or store it under
your desk. If you didn't care about compactness, you'd probably buy an e-bike.

2\. Huge battery: Adds to the cost and weight, which makes it more annoying to
carry. Great for a rental where Bird is paying per charge, but very few people
need to ride 30 miles between charges, and for those that do, they'd probably
rather have an e-bike that is faster and more stable.

~~~
condiment
I own a Xiaomi Mi m365 scooter that I use daily for commutes around downtown
Denver and while it's lighter than this bird, it is by no means lightweight.
It won't fit under a desk. It attracts funny looks if I bring it into a
business or restaurant, and locking it up on the street is annoying and time-
consuming. Even when it's folded and locked up, people try to steal it.

The Bird One marketing document doesn't really go into detail, but the huge
battery and GPS functionality suggests to me that the expected approach for
using these scooters is to park them on the street and leave them there. If
they borrow the anti-theft functionality that you see in VanMoof bicycles,
this scooter makes a lot of sense. You ride it around town. You charge it in
your garage. You leave it on the street when you're done with it. If it's
stolen you look up its GPS location and the police help you get it back.
There's low urgency to charge it. If it breaks, they'll fix it for you. And if
you don't have it with you, Bird comps your rental scooter.

That's a lot more compelling of an offering than just a "heavier, faster,
longer-range" scooter.

~~~
Sir_Substance
>If it's stolen you look up its GPS location and the police help you get it
back.

Do your police do that?

~~~
riantogo
I want to know the answer to to this. Must be a nice place to live.

~~~
themmes
In the Netherlands the police definitely will not. Vanmoof has their own team
to track down bikes and retrieve, but so far this seems more like a marketing
stunt than actual service (they have a youtube channel “Van Moof Bike
Hunters”).

------
polote
I think one of the issue with people from silicon valley trying to make
consumer products is the fact that it will always be too expensive for people
outside of silicon valley.

When you live there you have a huge salary and the feeling that 1k is nothing,
so selling a scooter for 1k is nothing, reality is that SV is a world of its
own. That's complex product management issue in my opinion

~~~
on_and_off
True ..

I got a boosted board when I moved to San Francisco.

Well, reason number one is that the public transportation system is a joke in
this city compared to the European cities I am used to.

The price still felt steep but I can afford an 1k skateboard with a tech
salary. Especially if I can recoup part of its cost by avoiding lyft rides.

~~~
brianbreslin
I've long contemplated a boosted board, but am hesitant to spend $1k on a
skateboard that I can't use when it rains.

~~~
on_and_off
That's a valid concern.

I live 25 minutes from work by foot, 10 by boosted.

When it rains, I just don't bother using my boosted, I go for a nice walk
instead.

It is possible to use it when it rains but :

\- most important point : your adherence will be way worse. With slick wheels,
the board slides a lot when it rains. Your braking distance becomes way too
long.

\- you also get your pants and shoes wet. Not as important as point one of
course, but still annoying.

I live in SF so I don't expect to see any rain in the next 6 months.

~~~
milkytron
> I live in SF so I don't expect to see any rain in the next 6 months.

Really? My perception of SF was that they get frequent rain is generally one
of the wetter places in California

~~~
on_and_off
I don't know the city and its weather very well yet (I have been there for
less than 2 years).

My perception is that the weather of the past few years has been widely out of
what is expected in all the places I have resided in.

Last year SF has been very dry

[https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2018/10/01/approaching-
fro...](https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2018/10/01/approaching-front-san-
franciscos-long-dry-spell-rain/)

one article on the topic .. 159 _consecutive_ days (or maybe more) without
rain.

Which was great for skating :)

The weather was not that hot either .. mostly between 13 and 21 °C.

------
diegorbaquero
$1299??? Apart from the GPS and "Free Rides Package" and "Bird Service
Center", what's the value added? I could just get a Segway Ninebot ES4 for
less than $800?

~~~
1023bytes
The Bird Service center would be actually extremely useful. I bought a Xiaomi
M365 (which is what Bird initially used) and dealing with tire punctures is
really difficult. The first time I changed the tube, it took me a week to
finish it. The bolts on the holding wheel are extremely tight from the factory
and tire is such a tight fit too, I broke and bent multiple tire levers trying
to get it on. I tried bringing it a couple local bike shops, but none of them
would look at it.

~~~
universenz
There's your problem right there... Why make a scooter with tyres instead of
solid rubber with suspension? That's what Segway did with the Ninebot, and
their scooters are great. So confused right now.. Tyres are meant for the low
end/cheap scooters, not the high end stuff.

~~~
zed88
Funnily enough, both m365 and Ninebot model you are referring to, are made by
the same company.

~~~
universenz
I've heard this statement a lot, but does anyone have a source? First I heard
they were manufactured by Ninebot, then I heard that they were just designed
by Ninebot. The build quality is actually quite different between the
different brands.

~~~
zed88
I have both models, I discovered it in the manufacturing label and was
surprised as well.

Turns out Segway is owned by Ninebot and a large chunk of Ninebot is owned by
Xiaomi.

In terms of build quality, both are pretty similar.

Here is the source:

[https://www.engadget.com/2015/04/15/segway-ninebot-xiaomi-
ac...](https://www.engadget.com/2015/04/15/segway-ninebot-xiaomi-acquisition/)

------
nimbius
This feels like Bird trying to head-off people who might learn they can buy a
bird scooter from impound for about $30, and a kit for about $10 to convert
them back into normal scooters.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18604049](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18604049)

------
zed88
Seems like a desperate attempt by Bird owing to the inherent flaws in the
business model. The pricing is wrong, one could really buy good scooters at
that price band. What were they smoking?

------
dev_dull
Better option is to find cities impounding abandoned scooters and auctioning
them off. They can be repurposed with a new IC from China.

~~~
VectorLock
I've been looking but haven't been able to find any. Has anyone had any luck?

~~~
css
For auctions [0]? Or hardware [1]?

[0] [https://www.usa.gov/state-surplus-sales](https://www.usa.gov/state-
surplus-sales)

[1] [https://www.ebay.com/itm/Durable-Board-Dashboard-
bluetooth-M...](https://www.ebay.com/itm/Durable-Board-Dashboard-bluetooth-
Module-Part-for-Xiaomi-MIJIA-M365-BIRD-Scooter/293025080088)

~~~
VectorLock
For scooters themselves. None of the auctions I've been to physically or
online have had any, in a major Northeast metropolitan area.

------
jwr
I wonder how that works in practice. The scooter looks like a Bird scooter and
is branded with Bird logos. If you leave it anywhere, won't people take it and
try to ride it?

~~~
kawfey
Yes. My friend has the same Xiaomi Mi scooter that Bird uses, and we're in a
busy Bird market. He usually parks it within line of sight and often has to
pester riders to quit trying to ride it away. In one case, a Bird charger took
it (assuming it was broken) and he had to trace it back via a GPS tracker he
installed.

Even though it's very obvious it's not a Bird (no labeling, doesn't have the
large box on the handlebars, doesn't show up on Bird's map) people assume its
a Bird scooter anyway and start fiddling with the controls.

Now he U-bolts it to bike stands, and now riders leave it alone in confusion.

~~~
rwmj
The Xiaomi is small enough to take indoors. Why not do that?

~~~
milkytron
It might not be easy to take it into all indoor places, like tight
restaurants, bars, grocery stores, etc

------
an4rchy
Interesting change in their business model. Wasn't the initial goal of on-
demand scooter companies to give people the convenience of renting without the
hassle of owning?

What's the benefit of buying this from Bird vs any other scooter mfg? Unless,
this is some sort of rev share where they can let you rent in their network
and make money.

------
pbiggar
$1300? What the fuck! The birds in SF are just the Xiaomi scooter which costs
$450. [https://www.amazon.com/Xiaomi-Electric-Long-range-Fold-n-
Car...](https://www.amazon.com/Xiaomi-Electric-Long-range-Fold-n-Carry-Ultra-
Lightweight/dp/B076KKX4BC)

~~~
pbiggar
OK, so it's got double the battery and weighs 10lbs more.

~~~
ihuman
It's also not foldable

------
k3oni
I'm sorry but at 1.3K i was expecting a bit more, or maybe i'm just off but
that price looks high to me.

~~~
jimkri
That price is high. If you go to Alibaba or Aliexpress you can find the same
scooters for $400-500 or if you buy them bulk around $250-$300

------
bsmith
This seems like a rip-off, and a pretty high-risk buy given how new Bird is to
hardware...

With a quick Google search, you can find the same Segway scooter that many of
the scooter companies (including Bird) have used for around $500, new.

------
elamje
You can get a street legal new Honda Ruckus or Yamaha Zuma 50cc for ~2500.
115mpg, no motorcycle license required, 100+ mile range, and no charging. This
is a tough purchase price, when you can order direct from amazon or Alibaba
for at least 50% lower.

~~~
Symbiote
Do they stink worse than a bus, leaving an oily trail of smoke?

I can't understand why petrol mopeds are still sold.

~~~
elamje
In the US, those two brands make high quality products that use a 4 stroke
motor, so no oil mixing. They are quite popular around college campuses and do
not smell.

~~~
astrodust
Do they sound like a bunch of angry bees?

~~~
snovv_crash
No, they aren't 2-stroke, they're 4-stroke. They sound similar to a little
250cc roadbike - quiet and puttering.

~~~
astrodust
Depends on the muffler system more than the engine. Large 4-stroke engines can
be louder than helicopters.

I'm just curious because often the smaller the engine, the noisier it is.

------
allworknoplay
It says "Free Rides Package" and "Bird Service Center", but there's zero
detail on what either of these means. Anyone know? It feels like those might a
decent portion of why the price is so high, but can't say.

~~~
modernerd
From [https://shop.bird.co/](https://shop.bird.co/):

“Bird One owners get access to additional rides on our dockless shared network
in 100+ cities worldwide—so even if you’re away, you’re never without Bird.”
[They mention “20 free rides” but don't say if that's per month, per year, or
a one-off with the purchase.]

“Bird Service Centers offer expert vehicle care and added peace of mind.” [No
word yet on location or what sort of care is included.]

The Verge has this on the service centers/anti-theft:

“If your scooter breaks down, VanderZanden said you can bring it (or mail it)
to one of Bird’s service centers, located in North America and Europe. If the
scooter is stolen, Bird’s “bird hunter” network of freelancers may be able to
track it down and find it.”

[https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/8/18535698/bird-one-
electric...](https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/8/18535698/bird-one-electric-
scooter-ride-share-own-price)

------
hmhrex
This is too expensive for what I need to commute to work and back. Any other
recommendations for electric bikes/scooters/boards?

~~~
samsolomon
Before the scooters and e-bikes hit Atlanta, I was very close to purchasing a
Van Moof. A friend of mine has one here and says it's one of the best
purchases he's made.
[https://www.vanmoof.com/en_us/electrified-s2-x2](https://www.vanmoof.com/en_us/electrified-s2-x2)

Then Bird, Lime, Lyft and Jump all appeared. There's always several Jump bikes
outside of my place, which negates the need for my own bike.

EDIT: Just realized that this is also probably out of your budget. Going to
leave it for anyone else that's interested though.

~~~
hmhrex
The option to "subscribe" is enticing! $25 a month is pretty good if using
daily.

------
nullwasamistake
I don't see how "Uber scale" scooter rental is viable long-term.
Interestingly, this appears to show bird acknowledges it at some level.

Unlike cars, the purchase and maintenance cost of scooters is minimal. And you
don't need a license or insurance. The only reason to rent one is lack of
scooter parking or if you're visiting. Eventually society will catch up and
scooter rental will be like bike or car rental. A viable business, but not
nearly the scale of rideshare.

You only need to look at how successful Jump bikes are vs scooter rental to
see where this is going. I've already seen many people around town that were
driven to buy their own scooter after trying out the rentals. It's just one
big advertisment for buying your own scooter.

Rental will still exist, but I expect the market to shrink, not grow, in the
cities that already have rentals available. The barrier to buying your own is
too low to make this a viable SV style business

------
brontide
Everyone is talking about the high price, but they should be talking about the
bigger offense — Electric Rose.

We're going to look back at everything "consumer electronics pink" in a few
years and cringe. I'm surprised Bird is willing to let their marketing team
further complicate their brand for the sake of short term sales.

~~~
mfatica
what's wrong with having a pink color option?

~~~
brontide
It looks bad. Especially after a few months of being abused or the first rainy
day. Same problem with the white Birds in their current fleet. There's nothing
wrong with pink, but it makes more sense for a Google Home Mini than a mode of
transportation. Bird selected pink because it's an "in" color. The product is
going to outlive the color trend, which will result in further branding
confusion in the future.

See Jump for effective use of color. Take note that they only use one…

~~~
mfatica
pink is not a trendy color... pink has been a fairly common color for as long
as people have been making multiple colors of things. it's the "female" color.

white / pink stuff does get dirtier more easily than black. it just requires
you to care for your things and keep them clean and don't abuse them.

next you suggest we should make all shoes in a single color?

~~~
brontide
It definitely is trendy – [https://www.pantone.com/color-intelligence/color-
of-the-year...](https://www.pantone.com/color-intelligence/color-of-the-
year/color-of-the-year-2019)

There are other reasons, outside of complicating branding, to stick to one
color: [https://blog.bolt.io/sonos-x-
hay-8fb9e96fcc72](https://blog.bolt.io/sonos-x-hay-8fb9e96fcc72).

------
jzl
In case you missed it, see also this very well researched LA Times article
from a few days ago:

"Can Bird build a better scooter before it runs out of cash?"

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19835491](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19835491)

------
dreamcompiler
Or if you're a hacker you can buy one at auction for almost nothing.

[https://hackaday.com/2018/12/07/liberating-birds-for-a-
cheap...](https://hackaday.com/2018/12/07/liberating-birds-for-a-cheap-
electric-scooter/)

------
thetimbanks
There are additional details on the home page of their shop
[https://shop.bird.co/index.html](https://shop.bird.co/index.html)

The "free ride program" details:

20 FREE RIDES • Up to $5/ride on shared Birds • $100 value

------
tlrobinson
Boosted is launching a scooter next week too:
[https://boostedboards.com/coming-
soon/scooter/](https://boostedboards.com/coming-soon/scooter/)

------
anthonybsd
I honestly fail to see the appeal of this as opposed to say Solowheel Glide 3
for last mile commuters. Doesn't fold, so forget folding it under the seat of
the bus/train/etc. What's the point?

------
themark
Is this a joke ?

------
yalogin
Is Bird getting ready for an IPO? Why are they targeting the consumer directly
instead of the rents market they are supposed to focus on?

------
rangersanger
Phase 1 - give scooters away basically for free Phase 2 - sell same scooters
for 1300USD

This is a business strategy that only works with heroin.

------
Simulacra
We have Segways all over the campus where I'm at. We used to have Lime and
Bird's but the security concerns nixed that.

------
purplezooey
They missed out by not calling it Birb.

------
Kiro
What does "Free Rides Package" mean? Do I need to pay to use my own scooter?

------
xeromal
The price is a bit high for my taste, but having an onboard GPS tracker is
nice.

------
chrismckleroy
Or, you could ride a bike.

------
syntaxing
Hard to compete with what's out there in the market. Service centers aren't
that big of a selling point when you can buy these around $500. I think
they're better off raising the price to $2K and adding some "Level 2" autonomy
to it.

------
sharadov
One more gimmick to try and salvage a dying business.

------
Rudebwoy10
Are these still made by Ninebot?

------
vetrom
Is it just me or is this being offered at a 1000% markup or so?

~~~
phinnaeus
Looks more like 200%-400% to me.

------
primo44
*its

"it's" = "it is"

~~~
adrianmonk
Here's how I keep this straight mentally.

The rule is, in English, you can make a noun possessive by adding "'s" to the
end.

Let me emphasize one part: that's the rule to make _A NOUN_ possessive. "It"
is a pronoun, not a noun! The rule doesn't apply any more than it applies to a
verb or an adjective.

Hence you don't have stuff like "you's", "he's", "she's", "we's", or "I's",
and you also don't have "it's".

~~~
EpicEng
Pretty sure we do actually have he's and she's. "He's being an idiot", or
"she's wrong about that."

~~~
jstanley
You're just proving the point: "'s" is only possessive for a _noun_. Your
examples aren't possessives.

~~~
EpicEng
Yes, I misunderstood his point entirely. On reading my response again I also
realize that my examples come off as a not so subtle insult, and which is not
what I meant.

------
allworknoplay
> "give your commute a higher purpose with zero carbon emissions."

Can people please stop claiming electric vehicles are zero emissions?

~~~
DerpyBaby123
Why should they? What sort of emissions do electric vehicles have? I suspect
you'll say that generating electricity causes emissions, which is only true in
some cases

~~~
ecnahc515
One of the bigger arguments is also in the production itself can be not very
eco-friendly, eg: creating the batteries themselves.

~~~
georgespencer
You are exactly right. People have a tendency to discount the production of
the non-emission-generating thing in the first place. The energy and emissions
required to build something like this is non-trivial.

It should be mandated that if you want to appeal to green-fingered consumers
with your marketing, you have to state the emissions deficit from which your
product operates and how many years it would take to recover from it with
typical usage.

~~~
mikepurvis
Okay, I'll play: what is the "emissions deficit" of a small electric scooter?
Even combined with mass transit, surely the power consumed is miniscule
compared with driving alone in a car, and the car is many times the initial
manufacturing cost in metal parts, motors, even batteries.

I commute in the summer on a Boosted Board, which uses most of the 99Wh
battery to go one way (8km). My electricity in Ontario is largely nuclear and
hydro, but say it's the worst case scenario and all the power comes from gas—
the emissions from consuming 0.1kWh is ~35g CO2:

[https://canadianenergyissues.com/ontario-power-
stats/](https://canadianenergyissues.com/ontario-power-stats/)

[https://www.google.com/search?q=240+tons+%2F+602+MWh+in+g+pe...](https://www.google.com/search?q=240+tons+%2F+602+MWh+in+g+per+99Wh)

This is a far cry from what it would be driving that same distance in my Mazda
5, which would be a little under a litre of fuel (21MPG -> 11.2 L/100km), or
2.3kg of CO2, a 65x difference.

It's possible you're coming from a place of legitimate care, but honestly your
comment sounds a lot like concern trolling to me. If there's anything out
there which needs an "emissions deficit" sticker to help dissuade
conscientious purchasers, lets start with private automobiles.

~~~
georgespencer
> what is the "emissions deficit" of a small electric scooter?

I'm sure it's unintentional but it's not clear to me what you're asking. So a
range of possible answers:

1/ I don't know because they don't tell us what it is.

2/ It's the sum total amount of emissions directly caused by its production
divided by the number of units produced. See also: carbon offsetting on
planes.

3/ It's a number greater than zero and given that the electric scooter in
question does not appear to be obviously replacing a car but walking or
cycling, it's a meaningful question to ask.

> Even combined with mass transit, surely the power consumed is miniscule
> compared with driving alone in a car, and the car is many times the initial
> manufacturing cost in metal parts, motors, even batteries.

This is totally true, but I don't think it's anything to do with my point,
which is:

> It should be mandated that if you want to appeal to green-fingered consumers
> with your marketing, you have to state the emissions deficit from which your
> product operates and how many years it would take to recover from it with
> typical usage.

I don't disagree with anything you say about your Boosted Board being better
for the environment than your Mazda 5. But it's nothing to do with my point.

> but honestly your comment sounds a lot like concern trolling to me.

I legitimately care that people are allowed to market goods as being
environmentally friendly or "low emissions" without having to substantiate the
emissions which go into their manufacture. Especially when they seem to me to
be marketed as an alternative to cycling or walking, which seem to be
obviously low-emission.

> If there's anything out there which needs an "emissions deficit" sticker to
> help dissuade conscientious purchasers, lets start with private automobiles.

Again you're not really arguing the point, but sure, I think this is a good
idea (?). Especially for cars marketed as environmentally friendly but which
come at a significant creation cost.

------
tyopiuy
Evidence their business model isn’t working out. Their scooters (along with
all the other companies) have all but disappeared from my area, where they
once littered the sidewalk.

Once you fall once or twice on these scooters, it’s hard to ride them again.
Especially when it’s the scooter that’s broken, as is often the case. It’s a
shrinking market base, consequently. They (Uber-Jump, Lime) should have given
incentive by offering some kind of coupons after an accident, instead of
declining all responsibility and sending you the terms you signed or ghosting
their customers.

~~~
rsuelzer
I hope they fail. The sidewalks in Long Beach are a mess with these scooters.
I see kids who are clearly not old enough to drive riding these things around,
sometimes three on a scooter. Meanwhile the bike share program bikes now sit
unused on the racks. This isn't replacing cars in my area, it is replacing
exercise. The beach path is filled with these things, creating a real hazard
since the exercise path is now a motorway.

~~~
libraryatnight
I only just became aware of how obnoxious these things are. We just took a
trip to San Diego and stayed in the Gaslamp and these things are everywhere,
from multiple companies. By early evening they're just dumped all over place,
sometimes in piles. Then the people riding them are a hazard, if they're on
the sidewalk they come around corners and almost cream pedestrians, if they
ride in the street they almost get themselves killed driving like idiots in
traffic.

I hope this trend goes away.

