
Tron: Evolution – SecuROM DRM expiration makes game unplayable 9 years later - DyslexicAtheist
https://community.pcgamingwiki.com/topic/4476-tron-evolution-securom-drm-expiration-makes-game-unplayable-9-years-after-release
======
glacials
I'm one of twelve speedrunners of this game [1] and this is a killing blow to
our community. Those of us lucky enough to have the game installed are the
only ones who can continue speedrunning this game, and we can never uninstall
it or switch computers. No new speedrunners can enter the scene. It was enough
work getting it to run over the years without Games for Windows Live, or at a
modern resolution, or at a modern framerate, with horrible keyboard controls,
and without crashing at boot due to driver issues.

Now, new players can't even get their foot in the door enough to see that
there are fixes. Even with a crack, this is the end of speedrunning for us.

[1]:
[https://www.speedrun.com/tronevolution](https://www.speedrun.com/tronevolution)

~~~
Sargos
Why can't you speedrun with the crack? If everyone agrees on a common
executable that works it can be verified via SHA256 and still be used for
speedruns.

~~~
aspaceman
It's hard to get people in the community if you have to crack the game to even
do a run.

~~~
VonGuard
Just FYI, cracking the game now that the DRM is expired is 100% Fair Use in
the USA under the DMCA 1201 exemptions. Thanks EFF!

~~~
rambojazz
Do you have any link? I'd like to read more.

~~~
pixelbath
[https://www.google.com/search?q=DMCA+1201](https://www.google.com/search?q=DMCA+1201)

------
floatingatoll
In 2017, Disney updated TRON 2.0 (released 2003) for Windows 10 compatibility:

[https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/07/01/cor-
tron-2-0-jus...](https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/07/01/cor-
tron-2-0-just-got-patched-to-work-for-windows-10/)

~~~
adam12
[https://www.gog.com/game/tron_20](https://www.gog.com/game/tron_20)

~~~
slacka
To avoid any confusion, these are 2 separate games:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tron_2.0](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tron_2.0)
vs
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tron:_Evolution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tron:_Evolution)

~~~
jonny_eh
It demonstrates that Disney could update it, even though it's an old release.

~~~
bentcorner
I'm not too familiar with the relationship between developers and publishers,
so maybe this doesn't matter, but Disney is the publisher. Tron 2.0 was made
by Monolith which is still around today. Tron Evolution was made by Propaganda
Games which shut down in 2011.

~~~
jonny_eh
That certainly can affect how easy it would be for them to update it, but
Disney should have the source code, and removing DRM should trivial if they
have the source.

------
Rebelgecko
Fortunately, enterprising reverse engineers have already released a patch that
allows the game to work.

~~~
snuxoll
In the case of current DMCA exemptions, it’s even arguably legal to
distribute.

> Video games in the form of computer programs embodied in physical or
> downloaded formats that have been lawfully acquired as complete games, when
> the copyright owner or its authorized representative has ceased to provide
> access to an external computer server necessary to facilitate an
> authentication process to enable local gameplay,

~~~
paulie_a
Who cares about the dmca? Just ignore it and live consequence free

~~~
vageli
> Who cares about the dmca? Just ignore it and live consequence free

The people distributing the software are at greater risk than those
downloading it.

~~~
paulie_a
The risk is basically nothing. You get a notification saying "don't do that
again". In my younger days I helped distribution with various scene groups to
the tune of terabytes of files. I think I got a few notices that ended in the
garbage. At the time I was getting cracked copies from employees of ILM and
pixar

~~~
PostOnce
A bunch of people have gone to prison, or been put on probation/house arrest
and had to pay large fines.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fastlink](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fastlink)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Buccaneer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Buccaneer)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Site_Down](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Site_Down)

~~~
paulie_a
The odds are lower than winning the lottery.

~~~
astrodust
Yet people win the lottery every day.

The EFF exists for a reason. Hopefully not a reason that you'll ever
personally need, but if that day comes and the hammer comes down on _you_ ,
you'll be thankful people prepared for that situation.

~~~
paulie_a
1 in a 180 million. What is your point?

The eff doesn't exist to defend pirates so that is irrelevant.

Pirating in every shape in form has to be one of of the lowest crimes to get
caught for. And most cracks come from overseas so good luck there.

~~~
Thorrez
> The eff doesn't exist to defend pirates so that is irrelevant.

That depends on your definition of piracy. The EFF strongly fights against the
DMCA.

> Pirating in every shape in form has to be one of of the lowest crimes to get
> caught for.

Low in terms of what? Punishment? A fair number of people have received harsh
punishments, as already mentioned. You mention you were caught distributing a
lot of pirated material, so the probability of getting caught seems high. The
fraction of people that received a non-trivial punishment of those caught
distributing a lot of pirated material is higher than 1/180 million.

~~~
paulie_a
No I did not mention I was caught in any significant way. I never had a worry
in the world about getting caught. Outside of receiving a no consequence piece
of paper in the mail that means nothing.

------
crummy
It would be reasonable for Steam to allow refunds for games that break like
this, and bill the publisher for it.

~~~
rlayton2
IANAL, but I _believe_ that in Australia, you would be entitled to a refund.
There is no fixed time limit on refunds, and it would be reasonable to suggest
that a game like this should just keep working. You'd probably have to argue
your case still, as the company isn't likely to just refund without a fight.

(As an aside, if you get a dishwasher and use it for 10 years, the "general
wear and tear" would deny your refund, as it would be reasonable to suggest
that ongoing usage would wear down the machine, especially, for instance, if
you didn't do the regular maintenance suggested. )

~~~
watsonian__
It would be a refund in Australia as it is a faulty product. They may try
stiff you on returning a physical disk (how do you prove it was faulty on
sale?) but a good store will offer store credit at the very least because
video games do not make money. The consoles do.

The only times a refund can be denied in Australia when a problem occurs is if
it was caused by you or if you changed your mind on a purchase. Otherwise the
purchaser can dictate how they are rectified (swap, credit or refund).

Edit: This is assuming you purchase it now. If you purchased it 9 years ago -
it would be tough luck. The pivot is the condition at point of sale.

~~~
Bnshsysjab
What? Australian consumer law has a limitation on 2 years or reasonable
lifetime. Games don’t last forever and get obsoleted by newer operating
systems.

Sure I can run wine/VMware but I can also keep my 100 year old washing machine
running with regular repairs which isn’t fixing the issue of deprecation or
end of life.

~~~
Dylan16807
> Games don’t last forever and get obsoleted by newer operating systems.

That doesn't excuse it now failing to run on Windows 7.

~~~
Bnshsysjab
If the bug was time based but not related to anti piracy would this even make
the news?

What about disc rot? Or n64 not working because nobody uses RCA anymore?

~~~
boomlinde
The N64 isn't somehow broken because "nobody uses RCA anymore". That's like
saying your outfit is broken because nobody wears bell-bottom jeans anymore.
If you want to play N64, RCA monitors are still readily available, as are
converters. Nothing stops you from using them other than plain disinterest.

As for disc rot, I truly believe that if you sell discs with copy protection
so that the consumers can't reasonably back them up, they should be eligible
for replacements when the discs eventually break after normal use.

This, on the other hand, is first of all not a bug; it's the copy protection
working as designed. Whoever decided to use a subscription based copy
protection system must have known that they'd either have to pay for it for a
very long time or eventually fuck legitimate buyers over. It's deliberate and
calculated. That it's related to anti-piracy doesn't factor into it. It's not
pirates who are suffering from this, which is what critics have been saying
about SecuROM for the last decade.

Now, can you argue for the idea that using SecuROM is comparable to adopting
an industry standard for video transmission that has proven to be so popular
that it's still widely in use now, some 50 years after its invention, without
the foresight to instead adopt standards that didn't yet exist?

~~~
tremon
_Now, can you argue for the idea that using SecuROM is comparable to adopting
an industry standard for video transmission_

No, you can't, because the presence of SecuROM is completely orthogonal to the
game features that customers are willing to pay for. This is a feature the
publisher insisted on, not something the customer asked for.

Moreover, mitigations for the scenario you suggest do exist: you can buy
convertors, even high-quality upscalers to convert 70s-era video signals to
HDMI signals a modern TV can accept. "Convertors" that mitigate the damage of
SecuROM are illegal, again because the publishers insisted on that.

~~~
boomlinde
_> No, you can't, because the presence of SecuROM is completely orthogonal to
the game features that customers are willing to pay for._

Yes, you can argue for it. That doesn't necessarily mean that the conclusion
is right or even that the reasoning is sound. The point of arguing is to find
out that it is, if it is. In this case, I was asking the poster I responded to
to present his case because I have presented a case for the opposite
conclusion, that these are not comparable situations.

 _> Moreover, mitigations for the scenario you suggest do exist_

I think you may be getting my argument mixed up with some other argument,
because I did not suggest that scenario, and I clearly argue for why I believe
that it's an invalid comparison on the basis that a mitigation isn't even
necessary in most cases since most TVs have a composite input and you can
still buy new TVs that have composite inputs.

------
coding123
Wouldn't you expect the default action of SecuROM to ENABLE all installations
if the contract goes bad?

I would urge all companies to stop using them if this is their stance.

~~~
jchw
No, I think that this makes sense. Failing open would make the DRM useless if
you could trick the client into thinking the contract was expired.

OTOH, SecuROM is also “securing” their software from modifications, so if it
were to fail open, it would still at least be working to keep binary integrity
and obfuscation working; obviously SecuROM does not want to offer this for
free.

In my mind the correct action would be for the developers to release a patch
that removes SecuROM. Similar was often done for other games that had CD based
authentication; it was often removed years after original release, which makes
sense to do after the pirates have long compromised the security. I think it
makes just as much sense for online authentication for a game this old.

Aside: I am trying to avoid injecting my personal opinions about DRM here
since they aren’t relevant, but just to be clear I am not trying to express
sympathy or support for either party. This is amazingly dumb in my opinion.

~~~
munk-a
I think personal opinions are quite relevant here, legally speaking the law is
clear and we've all got a problem with that - concurrently, legally speaking
any game you've got through steam is a leased copy so if steam revoked your
ability to play it tonight you wouldn't have a clear legal way to challenge
them (unless the game is a subscription and they continue to collect that fee)

~~~
andrecarini
Regardless of the EULA, there are legal arguments [1] to be made that Steam's
games are goods, not services, and buyers whose games are remotely disabled
due to auth servers being shut off should be entitled to either a refund, a
reasonable patch to keep the game working locally or have a clear expiration
date stamped on the storefront since day one.

This recent French court's ruling [2] indirectly supports this interpretation.

[1]:
[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tUAX0gnZ3Nw](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tUAX0gnZ3Nw)

[2]: [https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/09/19/steam-should-
let...](https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/09/19/steam-should-let-users-
resell-games-french-court-rules/)

~~~
BlueTemplar
Ok, so it seems to be that :

2012 EU ruling : "software is a good that can be resold"

2014 German ruling : "games are not _just_ software, but also "art"(?), they
can NOT be resold" [https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/02/10/german-court-
rul...](https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/02/10/german-court-rules-
against-rights-to-resell-steam-games/)

2019 French court ruling : "Steam accounts are just software(?), they can be
resold" [https://www.nextinpact.com/news/108209-ufc-que-choisir-vs-
va...](https://www.nextinpact.com/news/108209-ufc-que-choisir-vs-valve-
justice-consacre-vente-doccasion-jeux-dematerialises.htm)

------
UI_at_80x24
Another example of the pirated version being superior to the retail version.

~~~
Moru
I was given Farcry 4 a few years ago. I tried to install it last week and the
key was used already. The game was in plastic wrapper still, I just opened it.
Support said there was nothing they could do. Luckily I found the receipt and
got the money back from MediaMarkt instead. Never buying boxed games again.

~~~
Macha
Had a similar experience with my steam copy of red alert 3 a couple of years
back (before the GameSpy shutdown, so the servers were still up). Logged in
after not having played for years, the online system kept reporting invalid CD
Key, EA told me Steam had to issue a new key, Steam insisted that it was EA's
fault, end result was I couldn't play my game online

~~~
dmos62
When support staff is unhelpful, it's always a good idea to request to be
forwarded to a higher tier of support staff. I was once stuck in a dead-end
10+ email thread with the basic support, when the upper tier support fixed the
issue immediately.

------
jdkee
“DRM: Defective by Design (TM)“

I forgot where i heard that quote but it seems apropo.

~~~
ignoranceprior
Probably from the Free Software Foundation:

[https://www.defectivebydesign.org/](https://www.defectivebydesign.org/)

------
Animats
What were the original terms? If they didn't allow for this, sue in small
claims court. Disney would really hate to have to show up and lose.

~~~
quietbritishjim
It's the retailer you'd have to sue, as they sold you the dodgy product. Even
if you won, they're unlikely to take Disney to court.

~~~
Animats
At least in California, you can go after the manufacturer or the retailer:

 _Unless disclaimed in the manner prescribed by this chapter, every sale of
consumer goods that are sold at retail in this state shall be accompanied by
the manufacturer’s and the retail seller’s implied warranty that the goods are
merchantable. The retail seller shall have a right of indemnity against the
manufacturer in the amount of any liability under this section._

 _No implied warranty of merchantability and, where applicable, no implied
warranty of fitness shall be waived, except in the case of a sale of consumer
goods on an “as is” or “with all faults” basis where the provisions of this
chapter affecting “as is” or “with all faults” sales are strictly complied
with._

 _Any waiver by the buyer of consumer goods of the provisions of this chapter,
except as expressly provided in this chapter, shall be deemed contrary to
public policy and shall be unenforceable and void._

[1]
[https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.x...](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.xhtml?lawCode=CIV&division=3.&title=1.7.&part=4.&chapter=1.&article=1).

------
srcmap
Wonder if there is enough for class action lawsuit for this.

But a big fan of lawsuit normally, I would definitively support it if I am on
the Jury.

~~~
tracker1
Came to suggest the same... hopefully the fines are significant enough to
deter this kind of behavior in the future or to get them to provide an
"unlock" after DRM servers shut down.

------
liendolucas
It's terrible. There are out there such good games completely screwed by DRMs.
I long miss the old days were a CD was enough to play a game and do whatever
you wanted to do with it (give it to a friend, resell it, reinstall the game
in another machine).

~~~
Moru
What is super frustrating is that the industry has talked the Swedish
government into puting a tax on all media (harddrives, usb memory, CDs, tapes
and so on). This tax is supposed to pay for private copying, a leftover from
the mix-tape days. We still pay this tax on all media and it goes directly to
the industry but we still can't copy media between friends because of DRM. In
general DRM should not be allowed here.

~~~
BlueTemplar
Yep, this is incoming for bulk hard drives in France too... (most of the other
storage forms have been taxed for years).

------
sturmeh
It seems absurd that they would "deregister" copies of the game instead of
"releasing" them.

Of course that's the better "business" between the two options, that
ultimately screws over the consumer.

------
Moru
A confusation on Steam though. You don't own the game, you rent it.

"The Content and Services are licensed, not sold. Your license confers no
title or ownership in the Content and Services"

~~~
Stevvo
No different to purchasing a game on physical media. You only own the physical
media itself, not game stored on it; the license is the same regardless.

Some physical copies of software have gone even further; the disc itself
remains property of the publisher.

------
pmarreck
And now you know why data hoarders ("digital archivists") ride the line of
legality just to have a working copy of something that MAY work indefinitely.

------
Apocryphon
Great find, and I'm curious who's trying to play a nine year-old single-player
average game that's a tie-in to the somewhat forgettable Tron: Legacy movie.
Looks like gamers were trying to play this and reported it on the Steam forums
and elsewhere, but why this game specifically and why now? Was there a sale?

~~~
judge2020
Speedrunners:
[https://www.speedrun.com/tronevolution](https://www.speedrun.com/tronevolution)

~~~
Apocryphon
Really goes to show that games are no different a medium from books or film,
and must be preserved and maintained in perpetuity in case that latter
generations will want to consume them.

~~~
lostgame
I’m very grateful for the efforts of the likes of archive.org, that tirelessly
dedicate themselves to the preservation of digital media.

------
__jal
As long as people continue to pay good money for defective products, there
will be people selling them.

Vote with your wallet.

------
mehrdadn
How is this legal when people have already bought the game? Would this be a
sound basis for a lawsuit?

------
anonytrary
I understand the sentiment around this specific instance is overwhelmingly
negative, but I find the general concept of an exploding game to be
fascinating. Consider a game that requires a buy-in of N dollars and explodes
after a month. Upon exploding, the player with the most progression (e.g.
level) gets the entire pot.

------
self_awareness
Since DRM is _designed_ to restrict access to content, I'd say that it's doing
what it's supposed to do!

I'm joking, obviously. I really think that DRM is damaging to the industry.
That's why I always buy non-DRM versions (for games, this mostly means I'm
buying from GOG.com)

------
JVIDEL
If you think this is bad wait until streaming-only games get killed.

------
ReptileMan
This is why I never buy a game, before a crack is out. For me DRM has the
opposite effect of intended - it delays my purchase.

------
Ancalagon
I'm curious if Spore the game will become victim to its DRM at some point in
the near future as well.

~~~
nfriedly
Arguably, Spore was a victim of its own DRM from day one. I think the sales
would have been much higher if it hadn't been for the awful DRM.

------
kijiki
So in this version of the story, the MCP defeats TRON.

------
docmars
And another reason why DRM absolutely sucks.

------
Havoc
Broken by design.

Steam isn't much better in terms of rights, but at least valve ensures some
sort of "it works".

~~~
BlueTemplar
Steam doesn't even list Denuvo, a DRM by basically the same company as
SecuROM, as a "3rd-party DRM"... (Not to mention which one of their own DRMs,
if any, a game uses...)

