
The Epic Collapse of Deutsche Bank - mrb
http://www.visualcapitalist.com/chart-epic-collapse-deutsche-bank/
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daveguy
To be clear. DB has not announced bankruptcy. This is a chronicle of the
significant fall in stock price since the financial collapse in 2008 and an
enumeration of the trouble it is currently in. Whether or not it winds up in
bankruptcy is still to be seen. DB is calling for a bailout, but if they're
the only ones in trouble through mismanagement of risk then they will probably
be allowed to crumble. (probably should crumble)

~~~
mathattack
It will be very hard for the German govt to let them fail. They are very much
a point of national pride, and deep in the culture. I suspect the
ramifications in Germany would be as big as Bear or Lehman.

~~~
gurkendoktor
Maybe that's true in upper-class circles? Everyone in my bubble is a customer
of either Sparkasse, Volksbank or ING DiBa. If it weren't for the constant
stream of negative headlines, most people would probably forget about DB
altogether.

Letting ANY German bank fail would make our govt look bad, though, after all
the posturing during the Greek crisis.

~~~
jsdalton
> Everyone in my bubble is a customer of either Sparkasse, Volksbank or ING
> DiBa.

As an aside, do you have any opinion on the merits of these institutions for
personal banking? (I assume you are in Germany.)

~~~
gurkendoktor
I'm a big fan of the ING DiBa VISA card which lets you withdraw money for free
at many (most?) ATMs in the Eurozone. My experience with their customer
service has also been much better than either Volksbank or Sparkasse. I have a
second credit card from DKB because withdrawing money abroad is "free"
(there's still a fee for currency conversion though, if I'm not mistaken).

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mschuster91
And fresh from the printing presses: DB chief economist asks for ANOTHER 150
billion € of public money (not investors, but the state funds!) for the banks
of Europe ([http://www.welt.de/finanzen/article156924408/Deutsche-
Bank-C...](http://www.welt.de/finanzen/article156924408/Deutsche-Bank-
Chefoekonom-fordert-150-Milliarden.html))

F..k this shit. It's just plain insane. Let the banks go bankrupt already and
build a better system on their ashes!

~~~
lossolo
> Let the banks go bankrupt already and build a better system on their ashes!

You don't have idea what you are talking about, it's like saying hey shot me
in the head already. Look at 2008 crysis and consequences of letting lehman
brothers go bankrupt. We should reform finance, change regulations, but not
like that for sure. Truth is that helping banks that are too big to fail from
public money is the cheapest solution. You let that kind of bank go and
bankrupt and you pay A LOT more for that.

~~~
mschuster91
> You let that kind of bank go and bankrupt and you pay A LOT more for that.

Screw banks and introduce socialism. It can work.

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chiph
$15.8 Billion current market capitalization. I wonder what their assets under
management is? If it's higher, that would seem to say that the market values
them less than the work they do.

~~~
mathattack
It's a little different. They have trillions of asserts backed up mostly by
debt and a small dose of equity. This is how most banks operated, and why they
are so volatile. (Lehman was 30 to 1 debt to equity. Most banks are somewhere
between 10 and 30 to 1)

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woodandsteel
I wonder how much of this is due to Greece's financial problems. I have read
that German banks lent Greece a lot money the country has not been able to pay
back.

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ajmurmann
What other big banks does Europe have that might stick around? Having all
major banks US based would be a huge issue for Europe.

~~~
falsestprophet
From the top 20 banks by assets [1]:

    
    
      4 HSBC 
      7 BNP Paribas
      10 Crédit Agricole 
      11 Deutsche Bank
      12 Barclays
      19 Societe Generale
      20 Royal Bank of Scotland
    

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_banks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_banks)

~~~
VeejayRampay
From the same Wikipedia page, France is #3 in the world for number of banks in
the top 50 by assets behind China and the USA.

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_red
You mean macro-economic plans that rely on exponential expansion don't work?!?

~~~
pas
1-2 percent of growth is pretty steady. For how long? Good question, but there
are a lot of things to sell, buy, manufacture, design, implement, create and
do before every human desire, hobby, leisure activity, taste and kink is
satisfied, catered for and served (as far as ethically possible - oh and
without also completely wiping us off the face of the planet).

So no problem with exponential if the exponent is rational.

~~~
majewsky
There are always two boundaries for exponential growth: the amount of desires
that can be catered to (as you mentioned), and also the amount of resources
available to us.

The second one is instructive because you can derive a nice asymptotic bound
for it: If you were to conquer space and harvest all available resources on
all reachable celestial bodies, your civilization could cover a growing
spherical volume of space, bound by the speed of light. That gives a maximally
polynomial growth of available resources, O(t^3), assuming an even
distribution of resources in space (over cosmic scales). Now observe that
every exponential curve (c^t for any c > 1) will outgrow this t^3 behavior
eventually.

Of course, that still does not solve the question of when this outgrowing
eventually happens. But I feel like resource availability (bound also by
technological advances in resource mining and recycling) will be a stronger
constraint on growth than our ability to sell shiny new things to people.

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tdeangelis
LUL

