

Visas for Foreign Entrepreneurs - kilian
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_12/b4171027577226.htm

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demallien
Here's the thing: immigration is something that is waaaay out of your control
as a founder. It doesn't matter how clever you are, if some snooty clerk
decides that they don't like you, you're done for, your dream is going to die.

I personally think that start-ups are already hard enough without having to
contend with gratuitous bureaucratic roadblocks. You would be better off
founding your company in your own country (assuming that we are talking about
people from modern Western or Asian countries). Putting your dream at the
mercy of bureaucrats is a recipe for disaster.

This is a little bit of a cry from the heart. The dramas I had, as an
Australian wanting to work in France were just unbelievable - clerks that
flatout refused to apply the rules, disintrested bosses, ridiculous catch-27
style rules in the first place, it was almost impossible to get a work visa,
even as an engineer with more than 10 years experience. I even had to spend 6
months shuttling backwards and forward between London and Paris every week for
6 months whilst fighting the bureaucracy. And, as if the rest wasn't bad
enough, the only way that I eventually got my paperwork approved was to get
the personal support of the mayor of Paris. As an interesting aside, once I
got passed the roadblock clerk, and passed up to the next stage where they
deal with 'special' cases, the clerk couldn't understand why my application
hadn't been approved straight-away.

Anyway, start-ups don't need distractions of that size.

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matrix
Should there be options for smart guys like this to come to America?
Absolutely, but let's be realistic; these guys have a few options. They could
immigrate to Canada - unlike America, Canada welcomes people with open arms.
Forget that rubbish about "all the expertise is in Silicon Valley". There is
no shortage of smart, experienced people in other countries. Heck, in
Vancouver they would just be a short hop away from the valley if they really
must be (although why you'd want to leave Vancouver beats me... think San
Francisco, except much nicer).

And of course, they could always do this in Holland. Seriously, why not? It's
not like a business never became successful in Holland.

Personally as someone who is dealing with US immigration bureaucracy, I am
opposed to the founder visa because on the very long list of things that need
to be fixed with immigration in America and that would also benefit the US
economy, this one is item #217. We don't need yet another special interest
carveout. No. The system needs to work in the best interests of the nation and
to treat people with fairness and dignity. Aiming for anything less is just
not even trying.

~~~
imack
As a Canadian citizen, part of me wants the "founders visa" to fail because it
passing would remove a small advantage we have in a sea of disadvantages. RIM,
for example, was not founded by someone born in Canada. I'm not exactly sure
what makes it easier to immigrate here, it just seems easier if you have
certain education.

In a similar thread, Microsoft opened a development office in Vancouver (well,
outside of it) more/less because it was easier to bring offshore talent here
than to Redmond. Given that it's only a 2 hour drive away, it seemed like a
good example of more liberal immigration laws helping out. Although, the net
effect of this seems to be that the Canadian office is really just a holding
pattern for top talent who can't get an H1-B yet.

~~~
starkfist
_I'm not exactly sure what makes it easier to immigrate here, it just seems
easier if you have certain education._

It's actually not easier, in 80% of the cases it takes 64 months for the visa
to process.

[http://www.canadavisa.com/federal-business-immigration-
entre...](http://www.canadavisa.com/federal-business-immigration-entrepreneur-
processing-times.html)

------
nihilocrat
I have a simple, genuine question. Why do smart people from countries with the
highest quality of life in the world want to immigrate to the US?

~~~
benl
Here's another genuine way of asking the same question.

Why do people continue to believe that European social democracies have the
highest quality of life, when people vote with their feet in the other
direction?

~~~
Retric
An average speaks nothing about the standard deviation. The minimum quality of
life in the US is far lower than many European countries, but young, educated,
intelligent, and motivated people are rarely at the bottom.

PS: Consider the AIDS rate in Washington DC at ~3%. "Our rates are higher than
West Africa" [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-
dyn/content/article/2009/03...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-
dyn/content/article/2009/03/14/AR2009031402176.html) However, other areas of
the country are way below that, even as other groups are much worse. "Black
men, with an infection rate of nearly 7 percent, carry the weight of the
disease, according to the report, which also underscores that the District's
HIV and AIDS population is aging. Almost 1 in 10 residents between the ages of
40 and 49 has the virus."

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exit
what would happen if anyone were allowed to live and work anywhere?

~~~
bvi
Africa would be mostly empty, for a start.

~~~
badsectoracula
If africa became empty, i would move to it. I hate noise.

But then someone who also hates noise would follow...

~~~
imp
As long as you're both quiet you'll be fine.

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lutorm
"Last year 8% of U.S. residents founded companies"

Really? That simply can't be right. Were there 24 million companies founded
last year? I have to say that if I count all the people I know that have
_ever_ founded a company, let alone last year, it's nowhere near 8%.

~~~
starkfist
That seems way off. SBA says it's closer to 600,000.

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tomh-
If all innovative Dutch people starting cool companies leave Holland, how can
we create our own silicon valley here? Is that really the only solution if you
don't want to make crud applications for businesses, to just pack and move to
the US?

~~~
rbanffy
> how can we create our own silicon valley here?

You do it with laws that make it easy to start a company and that make it
cost-effective to invest money in a local startup. Tax reductions are one way.
Simple processes are another. Labor laws that distinguish between startups and
established companies are yet another.

Here in Brazil we have labor laws that more or less make it prohibitively
expensive you from legally starting a tech company, bureaucracy that's
absolutely maddening, and an equally insane tax code.

~~~
drtse4
Couldn't agree more, +1.

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kilian
I hope this comes in time for these guys to stay!

~~~
aditya
I doubt it. It takes forever for bills to become law, and immigration bills
usually get stuck in some committee black hole or the other.

~~~
pp
Shouldn't they be able to get B1 visas with the company they founded? It's
most probably registered in the US. But then again, the US immigration system
is seriously broken.

~~~
ojbyrne
It says they're on a tourist visa (B2) - a B1 really wouldn't gain anything -
they'd still have to leave every 3 months, and be questioned more closely each
time they come back.

~~~
nearestneighbor
Technically, they may be inadmissible in the future now that they "did
business" (talking to investors, etc.) on a tourist visa.

~~~
ojbyrne
You'd run into the same issue if you actually did work on a business visa.
I.e. something other than meetings, talking to investors, etc.

