Ask HN: Why do you avoid Telegram, arguably one of the best cloud messengers? - stereotactic
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sdwolfz
I avoid everything else apart from Signal (this includes Telegram) because
with Signal I trust that they have:

\- end-to-end encryption enabled by default, and as far as I know there is no
possible way to disable this even if I wanted to.

\- no logs/state stored server side, or at least that's what they claimed.

\- no SPAM. The only people that talk to me on signal are the ones I actually
intend to talk to. Not sure if this is just because so few people use Signal
or because they don't have a chat-bot API they try to push as a commercial
offer.

\- a non-profit organization structure, not that being a for-profit is bad,
but I tend to trust non-profits more when it comes to things like respecting
privacy as a core value of their business (a for-profit would scrap that and
abuse their market share at the snap of a shareholder finger).

~~~
sebastianconcpt
I'd agree with all that. An in the past I'd also tend to like non-profits more
until I've realized that these are as vulnerable as a for-profit in terms of
ideological contamination.

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HelenePhisher
No end-to-end encryption per default, and if I activate it I’m not able to see
the conversation on other devices. Signal does that better.

~~~
vpEfljFL
\- end-to-end encryption

\- able to see the conversation on other devices

You can choose only one. Otherwise I can't see how it would be end-to-end
encrypted. Your devices should create some sort of a group chat to make this
work.

Group chats have large enough attack surface and "end-to-end encryption" will
create false sense of security.

~~~
HelenePhisher
I use Signal on multiple desktops. It's a good experience and really works
well. I can choose both.

~~~
vpEfljFL
In general there is a simple rule: either usability or security.

All general consumer grade tools are fighting with this equation: How can we
make an app which will appeal to the broad audience which will be easy to use.

I can't say anything about signal but in general if something is easy to use
and you can chat super secure with your grandma then most likely it isn't
secure how you might think it is and it's actually an issue because you may
want to send data which otherwise you wouldn't if you know you're on
compromised channel.

Sharing history between e2e encrypted devices is a tricky thing because you
should have forward security with some ratchet keys.

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jedieaston
I don't know anyone who uses Telegram. Everyone I talk to uses SMS/iMessage,
or _maybe_ Discord (but that's a pain in the butt for individuals).

~~~
stevekemp
I recently signed up to an online course at Helsinki Open University, there is
an online message-board for students (empty) and a Telegram group for the
users of the course which has 350+ members.

This is the only real time I've used telegram. Mostly people that I know here
in Helsinki, Finland, use WhatsApp (friends, neighborhood kids-group, etc), or
facebook messenger (pottery teacher, local companies).

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cpach
I use Whatsapp, Messenger and iMessage. Simply because they are convenient and
there I can reach ~95% of my friends.

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j749342
their encryption is closed source. If we don't know exactly how Telegram works
at it's core, any encryption it might have is almost worthless IMHO. Signal
and Keybase FTW

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Zenbit_UX
I don't. Why do you think people avoid it?

