
Why Cruise Ships are My Favorite Remote Work Location - bradly
http://tynan.com/cruisework
======
AlexMuir
I too work from a lot of different places, but I find that I absolutely need
internet to be productive. Pulling a Gem for instance, or checking Stack
Overflow.

My favourite places to work are all-inclusive holiday resorts. Lanzarote and
the Algarve most recently. Being all inclusive means there is no thought
process in eating or drinking. Nor any need to shop, clean, cook.

The most difficult thing is finding out what the internet situation is in
hotels - but this has vastly improved even in the last year. I generally call
up reception, and travel with an ethernet cable.

Incidentally for an individual or a couple, Airbnb is generally far more
expensive than a reasonable half-board hotel. I've only ever found Airbnb type
stuff useful in capital cities.

I've been at my most productive working in:

\- Wetherspoons in Slough

\- An apartment in Cairo

\- A bungalow in Lanzarote

\- The lobby of the Apex hotel in Dundee (current)

Downsides are seeing a laptop screen in the sun (wear a dark shirt) and being
surrounded by happy couples while on one's own.

(I'm back to Lanzarote for a week at the start of December if anyone fancies a
coffee)

~~~
mathattack
I agree completely on the internet access. Very hard to work through issues
without online resources nowadays. How did we do it before there was such
great online help like StackExchange?

~~~
larrys
" How did we do it before there was such great online help like
StackExchange?"

Books. And if you were lucky you would buy 2 or 3 so you could triangulate
something that didn't make sense. At least that is what I did.

Also plenty of trying and iteration.

Try this.

Try that.

For hours on end. (Not sure by your question if you had done this or were just
asking btw.).

When I bought a Unix system (mid 80's) it came with a bound set of maybe 10
manuals iirc. Getting other books was difficult I had to drive miles to a
University bookstore to even find anything on Unix or C. Software wasn't free
of course. It cost real dollars and was pretty expensive and came on floppies.

~~~
mathattack
I hear you, and that's how I learned. :-) But I find it much tougher on the
topics I'm learning today. Perhaps it's because the old stuff is hard wired
because it needs to be, but I keep less of the new topics in long term memory
because I can outsource that storage to Google?

~~~
larrys
Yeah the memory thing is a problem for sure. I've noticed that and it worries
me.

A few years ago I built this php/mysql just to store things that I learned or
figured out (correct syntax for rsync might be an example) so I wouldn't have
to re google them. [1] But now what I'm seeing is that most things can be
found by google quicker than in the format I am using the db for. (But it's
still helpful because I can cut paste and edit). I also use a wiki to keep
track of what I have found that is helpful. Putting something in the wiki
seems to help a little.

My point is in the past there would have been much more memorization
reinforcement (see [1] below) than today. My brain is totally getting lazy
because it knows the answer is right at my fingertips one way or another. When
I used to do the 3x5 cards [1] I typed it up, printed it, reduced it, pasted
it and the act of creating and using those "flash" cards made me memorize the
answers.

The other problem is the flood of information. To many cool and interesting
things to test out and get the hang of. I remember back when I tried C for the
first time (don't even think there was c++). Could work with that for a long
time since there wasn't really anything else to play with. [2]

[1] Old way of doing this used to be 3x5 cards or those 8.5 x 11 plastic
(can't think of the actual word for it) cheat sheets like "Unix Quick
Reference". See: [http://www.bookdepository.com/Unix-Inc-
Barcharts/97815722239...](http://www.bookdepository.com/Unix-Inc-
Barcharts/9781572223974)

[2] I'm not a programmer but I do some programming to help with what I do. And
have been doing it for a long time. So perhaps if I was doing this full time
and my needs were different (instead of intermittent) this would be less of an
issue for me.

~~~
ZoFreX
Stop cutting and pasting and start typing. I try to copy from memory, but even
writing it out while looking at the original still seems to help retention.

~~~
larrys
I actually do do that almost always. Habit started with books actually.
Exactly true as far as learning and retention.

Noting even that when learning php somethings that I cut and pasted had weird
invisible embedded characters that caused things to fail [1]. That was
actually a pretty good learning experience trying to take something that
appeared correct character by character and figure out why it wasn't working
by stripping things down the the basics.

[1] Might have been on w3schools or something like that.

------
simonsquiff
Cruise ships are also an amazing alternative to nursing homes.

I did some work for p&o cruises, on a ship that focused on round the world
trips. These was one old lady there in her 80s who had swapped a nursing home
for the ship - and had been there for 3 years or so. The food was incredible,
she had diffent company every night due to other guests coming and going, was
treated like royalty by the crew (unlike normal nursing home residents), and
had an onboard doctor and nurse when needed. And all this was cheaper than any
nursing home. Inspired idea.

~~~
jacalata
Probably about the same cost, according to snopes -
[http://www.snopes.com/travel/trap/retire.asp](http://www.snopes.com/travel/trap/retire.asp)

------
melindajb
This is an insanely great idea. Cruise ships are incredibly quiet places. the
lack of internet/expensive internet is a forcing function. Great way for co
founders to spend time together if they're normally in different locations. We
might just do this for a big push. Transatlantic cruises are very, very cheap
and not crowded; and since it's not incredibly warm outside there's an added
incentive to work. :)

Another benefit: take your spouses/partners; so long as they are able to let
you work during the day while they hit the gym/spa/bingo etc. Everyone wins.

Only danger I see is eating too much.

~~~
atlbeer
To the eating part; if you aren't on "vacation" the gyms on cruise ships are
ghost towns usually. Good way to fight to free food factor.

~~~
melindajb
yes. also another tip I got that worked the last time we did a big family
cruise: never take the elevators, always take the stairs. On at sea days we
made it a point to walk at least 3 miles on the track outside on the ship.
Managed not to gain any weight, which I counted as a win.

------
xradionut
In my humble opinion, this is a shitty idea. There are other quiet places with
decent enough bandwidth that don't have the costs or risks of a cruise ship.
My favorite one is the study section of the local library. I've also gone out
to a cabin in the woods that only had a satellite link. My neighbor has
soundproof walk-in closet.

As for the risks of a cruise ship, if something goes wrong, your options are
limited. I say this as a navy veteran that's had to deal with multiple things
that go wrong on a ocean vessel. (Fire, flooding, engine failure, etc...) As a
civilian, I'm very wary of cruises.

~~~
brador
What things can go wrong on a cruise ship that are very bad for people
onboard? Isn't a life boat just a short run away?

~~~
mkramlich
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_Concordia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_Concordia)

or if you're of a different age:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Titanic](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Titanic)

~~~
slg
Things can also go wrong sleeping in your bed at night.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_fransisco_earthquake](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_fransisco_earthquake)

~~~
mkramlich
read the comment to which I replied. it will put it in context.

------
MattBearman
Wow, I don't think this would have ever occurred to me, but it's genius!

I can go from London to San Juan in 14 days, for about £32 / day. That's
cheaper than life at home.

Think I'm gonna book myself a cruise soon

Edit: Just exploring this guy's blog, and it turns out he's Herbal from "The
Game" \- an excellent book if you've not read it.

~~~
triangleman
That was a terrible book! You might as well read _Rich Dad, Poor Dad_.

~~~
MattBearman
I've not read RDPD, but unless I'm mistaken isn't it a self help type book?
(in the vein of 4HWW). Where as The Game a novel, you can't really learn to
pick up women from reading it, so not sure they can be compared.

~~~
vinceguidry
The Game isn't a novel, it's an account of the author's experience in the so-
called seduction community. It's arguable as to whether you could learn how to
"pick up" women from it, whatever that means. (it's not an instruction manual)
It is a decent read though, Strauss is a talented author.

~~~
MattBearman
True, I didn't mean literally a novel, just that it reads like one (as opposed
to a self-help book). I thoroughly enjoyed it, I quite like some of Strauss'
other books too.

------
pastylegs
"Frankly, if you're not into bingo and ballroom dancing, you may find there's
not much for you to do on the ship other than work or read."

What is happening to people? When you are insulating yourself from nearly
every aspect of day-to-day normality just to be able to concentrate without
distraction there is a problem and it's likely you are working to much. I'm
all up for travelling but this just seems like an easy way to remove yourself
from the world to get more done. Why not just check into a mental health
clinic with a wifi dongle - you won't have to cook or clean and they'll be
perfectly equipped to deal with you once the monumental burnout hits.

~~~
sp332
What if there's something I want to get done, and I have the time but I keep
getting interrupted? I'll just go off somewhere with fewer distractions.
That's what this is for.

~~~
eddieroger
I got the same impression from reading it as pastylegs did. To me, it sounded
like the author does thing on the regular, as opposed to a one-off or rare
type thing. If you have that much trouble creating a segmented space to work
in your normal life, you either have too many distractions in your space, are
too easily distracted, or have an unreasonable expectation of what it means to
work.

~~~
DanBC
Maybe they just enjoy working from a ship? The food, drink, sports and
international travel are all attractive.

------
chrissnell
OP touched on another great remote work idea: the RV. Find a smaller model in
good condition and outfit it with a Verizon mobile AP and you're in business.
Sadly, I didn't move into remote work until after I got married and started a
family but if I was 22 again, this is how I'd do it. I'd spend my winters in
South Texas, around San Antonio and Port Aransas. In the springtime, I'd head
up to Southern Utah, places like Escalante and Moab where I could mountain
bike and go canyoneering. In the summer, I'd head for the mountain towns:
Telluride, Colorado...Aspen...Park City, Utah...Idaho...for more mountain
biking and hiking. In the fall, I'd head south again and start it all over.

All of these places have easily available wifi, good food, great people, and
lots to do after work. If you're smart about it, there are even nice places
just outside of these towns where you can camp (< 14 days) for free and still
have 4G cell service.

~~~
bri3d
I think the RV is ultimately a better lifestyle. Biking, hiking, sightseeing,
canyoneering, etc. appeal to me a lot more than being stuck on a ship with a
sad crew and tons of vacationers.

I don't think I'd compare the two directly, though. Driving an RV is probably
more expensive per-day even discounting the food and services on a ship and
assuming very little depreciation on the vehicle (i.e. you got a deal used),
and it's a lot more work. Between finding places to park/camp, run the
generator or hook up power, empty the toilet, maintain the drivetrain,
cooking, and the inevitable RV disaster-breakdowns RVing is a lot of work - a
far cry from "saunter to the restaurant, pick a meal, eat it, come back to a
freshly cleaned room and more food."

------
slg
Like others here, my major concern would be access to the technical resources
that are freely available on the internet like StackOverflow. I was curious
and consulted the StackExchange API and license. They seem to indicate it
would not only possible to pull down the site's entire contents but it also
would be allowed under the CC license that is used. Although judging by the
various throttles in place, it would take you roughly 11 days to grab all the
data. So who wants to take the plunge, write up the scripts, pull the data,
and then share it with everyone else?

~~~
davorak
The work is already down regularly:

[http://www.clearbits.net/creators/146-stack-exchange-data-
du...](http://www.clearbits.net/creators/146-stack-exchange-data-dump)

I do not know what format it is however because I have not gotten around to
using it yet.

------
wiggle_bar
I wonder if Tynan would be as gung ho about working on cruise ships if he
didn't happen to be launching a cruise deal aggregator site

~~~
edsrzf
I'm pretty sure it's the other way around: he wouldn't be launching a cruise
deal aggregator site if he weren't so gung ho about working on cruise ships.
[http://tynan.com/cruisesheet](http://tynan.com/cruisesheet)

------
noarchy
Posts like this seem self-congratulatory, to me. Working in this field, we're
well-compensated, and in a position of relative privilege based on that alone.
Add to that the flexibility (when we have it) to not be tied down to a daily
commute or an office/cube-farm, and we're living in another world entirely. We
shouldn't forget this.

~~~
badman_ting
There is no honor in acting like you aren't privileged when you are. But
moreover, cruises have a generally more glamorous image than the reality. You
can often get on a cruise ship essentially for free, because they want you to
spend money shopping and eating on the ship.

------
plainOldText
In case someone didn't get to the bottom of the article, the author also built
Cruise Sheet, which helps you find the cheapest cruises
[http://cruisesheet.com/](http://cruisesheet.com/).

------
theorique
Perspective from David Foster Wallace - "Shipping Out: On the (nearly lethal)
comforts of a luxury cruise". Also known as "A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never
Do Again".

[pdf] [http://harpers.org/wp-
content/uploads/2008/09/HarpersMagazin...](http://harpers.org/wp-
content/uploads/2008/09/HarpersMagazine-1996-01-0007859.pdf)

However, I don't think this (somewhat critical) article should deter any
would-be cruise goers, especially if you have work to engage you during the
time.

------
rdl
My personal preference is 5 day stays in cat I to IV Starwood hotels in
interesting places, during lower occupancy periods, with top tier status --
ends up costing $20-100/day all-in by gaming the points system.

I tend to go full Howard Hughes (not leaving my 2-3 room suite) for a few
days, do some limited local exploration, etc. I feel a lot better having a
separate bedroom and office. Free breakfast and lounge means effectively
unlimited food, although local restaurants, room service, etc are options.

This week I've been at the Le Meridien Bangkok, probably my favorite hotel in
town, for 5000 points/night, net, which is essentially $50/night in foregone
cash back on credit card purchases, or about $100/night at retail. It cost me
$50 to fly here from Singapore, where I couch surfed with friends for a few
days, after 10 days in Bali with the girlfriend.

Less risk of fire, norovirus, my hotel is mainly full of nice Japanese people
instead of either obnoxious partier spring break types or old dying people,
50M Internet, etc.

------
mdip
This was an interesting read. His arguments for why he likes working on a
cruise ship are very much my arguments for why I prefer to vacation on a
cruise ship:

(1) Internet access is "limited". I'll stick with "limited" because it's a
mixed bag. It's been 5 years since I cruised, though not Mediterranean and was
able to find flat rate per-day, however, the one day I broke down and
purchased access I found it to be very unreliable (single shared satellite
connection for the entire ship). This is the same for phone service. The last
ship I was on had a ship-board cell "tower" that showed up as international
and I can imagine even T-Mobile doesn't cover that in their zero roaming
considering ship to shore calls were $9.00/minute from the suite. This also
encourages my coworkers to think long and hard about whether or not to call me
in an emergency.

(2) Everything is taken care of, including entertainment. I find it difficult
to relax, even on vacation -- it's an exercise of planning what to eat, when
to eat, what to see, what to do and when to do it. When "at sea", the cruise
director provides a menu of what you can do and when. You pick. Very little
energy is expelled in enjoying myself.

(3) When in port, same rules apply. You don't have enough time to plan some
grand excursion, so you pick one or two things to do and head back. I always
opt for a room with a window and have found that if the ship is oriented with
me facing the shore, I can pick up free Wi-Fi from restaurants at shore for a
fix (even when the ship is too big and has to be anchored at sea). This
provides for a quick fix of internet and stretching.

Because there are many times of the day where there is literally _nothing_
else to do, I find it's the only thing that slows my mind down. By day 7 or so
I'm ready to be home again, and the weeks that follow my vacation are usually
amazing. The time spent being forced to be alone with my thoughts results in
me returning with new ideas, new ways to solve old problems and just a
generally more positive outlook. It's the only vacation I take where I truly
_get_ the idea of taking time out to decompress.

------
spindritf
I had no idea cruises were so cheap. I though they're ~$100/day. This is what
it costs to get a cabin on a cargo ship.

~~~
toomuchtodo
It can be much cheaper than that to get cargo ship carriage:

[http://www.flightlesstravel.com/plan/cargo-
ships/](http://www.flightlesstravel.com/plan/cargo-ships/)

------
arbuge
OK, I have to be that guy. Barcelona to Casablanca is not a "transatlantic
cruise".

Anyway, interesting idea if you can live without internet. Technically
speaking, if you're in international waters (and not a US citizen, which is a
long story), you won't even owe taxes on the work you do aboard.

~~~
busterarm
In ship lingo it is. A trip from Florida across the Suez Canal and out to
Singapore is also considered "Transatlantic".

Basically it just matters what your starting ocean is and if it's round trip
or not.

~~~
busterarm
Ugh. I meant to say Panama, and I'm wrong anyway. Derp moment. Disregard.

~~~
reeses
Thanks for coming back for that. I was scratching my head trying to figure out
if there was some horrid route cruise ships took to get to the Mediterranean
from Florida that involved them not going into the Atlantic.

"And then everyone gets out to help carry the ship over the Darien Gap..." or
possibly,"Shackleton, the adventure."

------
joelgrus
I can see how the lack of Internet is awesome for preventing you from checking
Facebook / Twitter / HN all day. At the same time, I'm not sure how productive
I could be without near-constant access to StackOverflow. :)

~~~
ngoel36
[http://kapeli.com/dash](http://kapeli.com/dash)

~~~
pacofvf
awesome, I clicked the purchase button and.... only for mac :(

~~~
finnw
Yes, why is this not mentioned more prominently?

------
peteforde
Earlier this year I wrote about how shrinking my business size down to one
(me) allows me to work from trains. Specifically, I wrote that post while on
board VIA Rail's The Canadian, which goes to/from Toronto to Vancouver in four
days. It was awesome, and if you know where to look, these trips are _always_
50% off.

[http://hackertourism.com/growing-by-
shrinking](http://hackertourism.com/growing-by-shrinking)

~~~
snogglethorpe
I totally second this...

I took the Toronto to Vancouver train in 1984, and although I understand the
details of that route have changed quite a bit since, it was a wonderful
experience.

95% of the trip is through wilderness, with occasional stops in small cities
that seem to just spring up in the middle of nowhere (Winnipeg...). Once past
Thunder Bay, the train suddenly empties out a bit, so it doesn't feel crowded,
and spending all day reading, in comfortable seats, with wilderness streaming
by the huge window next to you is just wonderful. I found the other passengers
quite interesting—I shared my four-seat "section" with a forestry student off
to work in a lumbercamp for the summer, and learned a lot of interesting stuff
about Canada, and forests... :]—and the vibe was very amiable and quiet.
People were friendly, but there was a distinct lack of "chatterers" and most
people seemed content to do their own thing most of the time.

Because the trip took five days, and there was basically _no_ demand on my
time, it felt incredibly unrushed, and combined with constant low-level
"passive" distraction in the form of scenery, the wonderful light, and the
soothing motion and sounds of rail travel, it left me feeling both incredibly
relaxed and oddly energetic.

Extreme long-distance train travel is generally way underrated, I think;
obviously it's not ideal if you're in a hurry, but if you have a few days,
it's often a treat. Although the Canadian trip was the best, I've also
traveled by train from Seattle to Boston, and it was a great trip too, for
many of the same reasons (Amtrak long-distance seats are just amazingly huge
and comfortable though).

~~~
lmm
I went London-Osaka by train and ferry, which was great fun, but the longest
single train was two and a half days (Moscow - Shymkent) and I wouldn't've
wanted it to be any longer, even travelling with a friend and a tablet.
Possibly the scenery was more repetitive than yours - empty snowfields as far
as the eye can see is beautiful for a day or two, but does become boring.

~~~
snogglethorpe
Yeah, there's a nice amount of variation of environments across Canada, which
did help.

I was also well prepared for some isolation, with a big stack of books to
read, pads of paper etc for writing on etc.

In a way I also think it was easier alone. Travelling with a friend can great
fun, but to some degree it can also detract from the feeling of freedom...
Because there were some friendly passengers, I never felt lonely, but I also
felt completely free to stare out the window and think for hours on end. No
pressure.

------
himperdunk
If somebody is blogging about their lifestyle you have to question it.
Creative geniuses seem to _vary_ in their response to distractions. Leonhard
Euler claimed that he did important work with baby on knee. The inventor of
the shape sorter (I forget his name) used to head off to a place of absolute
quiet and stillness to conceive his inventions. John von Neumann turned the TV
volume _up_ in order to work. Go figure

------
ssharp
Having been of a few cruises, I'd like to point out a few things:

1) Listed prices generally DO NOT include gratuities. Low level cruise
employees like the cleaning crew, cabin stewards, waiters, cooks, etc. are
paid ridiculously low wages, because cruise ships are registered to countries
like Panama and the companies do not need to adhere to U.S. standards. I don't
recall offhand, but for a 7-day cruise the "automatic" gratuity is, I believe,
around $100 or so per person, so take that into consideration. You can remove
the charge if you want to, but you'd have to be a pretty big asshole to do
that :) Also, prices are based on double-occupancy, so if you go by yourself,
double the fares.

2) Internet is expensive, slow, and charges by the minute). However, if you do
this a lot, some cruise loyalty programs will give you free internet. I know
Princess does this. Also, you're cell phone my work in certain locations. I'm
a U.S. AT&T subscriber and I have full service in U.S. ports like San Juan and
the U.S. Virgin Islands. If you can tether your phone, you'll get much faster
and cheaper service that way than on the boat internet.

3) Don't get sick / injured. My wife stepped on broken glass while wearing
open-toed shoes and got cut up pretty bad. The doctor on board used strips
instead of stitches, and the cut reopened in two days, by which time we were
already off the ship. The crew handled the incident terribly. The problem with
the glass was not resolved quickly, my wife had to wait a fair amount of time
for someone to show up with a wheelchair to take her to the doctor and the
crew went into "don't get sued" mode really quickly. They gave us pushback
when we refused to sign a liability waiver before getting treatment and we had
some security guy who kept insisting to come into our room to photograph the
shoes my wife was wearing at the time. When we complained the next day about
the process, a nice woman sat down with us to hear out our complaint, but
never really did anything. We were adamant about NOT paying for the care and
it never showed up on our bill, so we let well enough alone. Three months
later, they sent us a bill for $300 for the care. After we sent their HQ a
letter in response, they ended up waiving the fee and giving us $100 credit
towards our next cruise. Nice, but it was ridiculous in the first place since.

4) In regards to the above, had something worse happened, or they had refused
to waive the fee, good luck fighting the cruise company in court. You're not
only bound by typical consumer-crushing stuff like forced arbitration, but
you're also getting into international legal difficulties. For big cases like
the cruise that tipped over, it's worth the hassle, but for smaller claims,
you're pretty limited in what you can realistically do.

All that said, I think this is a pretty cool idea and had always thought about
how cruises could be a cool little work/vacation thing.

~~~
sanskritabelt
He says room service is "free", which suggests that he's not tipping. Someone
pointed out down thread that this guy's a pickup artist
([http://www.pualingo.com/pua-profiles/herbal-
tynan/](http://www.pualingo.com/pua-profiles/herbal-tynan/)), which is
empirically correlated with "asshole", which in turn is correlated with "does
not tip".

~~~
enko
I am annoyed with this comment. You do not seem to realise that there are many
parallels between the "PUA" community and the startup community. Both are
about people striving to meet their goals.

You should read "The Game", by Neil Strauss. He documents the process of
becoming a pickup artist, the people he met, the stages he went through. And
as you read it, you will realise something - the only surefire way to becoming
a successful PUA is to improve yourself, to become the best version of
yourself, and at the end of it all, that's what these guys were trying to do.

Yeah, there are assholes. There's always assholes. But at the end of the day,
this so-called "PUA" culture is about turning yourself into the best version
of yourself you can be. And isn't that what all us startup types are trying to
do? Rising to a challenge? Stepping into those shoes? Pushing ourselves beyond
what we thought possible? Closing the deal?

There are more parallels than you think. Read that book. And don't be so eager
to judge people. They're more like you than you realise.

~~~
prutschman
One big difference between PUA culture and startup culture is that the former
is generally more expressly proud of its misogyny.

~~~
patrickg_zill
I know I will get downvotes for this...

But "here comes the shaming language" ...

Let me know when you are as equally hard on women for learning all the PUA
tip-equivalents (for their gender) from age 5 onwards, through to the Vogue
Teen and then the Cosmo years.

EVERY SINGLE women's magazine you see on the shelves at the supermarket, has
the equivalent of "PUA tips and tricks" in every issue. Such as "how to make
him ..." or "What he likes in bed" or whatever. It is so prevalent, women
aren't even aware of it, like a fish doesn't notice the water.

Let a guy start learning some evo-psych, learn how to dress better, work on
his conversation skills, and quit being a supplicative schlub ... and the Holy
Hand Grenade of Guilt and Shaming gets tossed.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Let me know when you are as equally hard on women for learning all the PUA
> tip-equivalents (for their gender) from age 5 onwards, through to the Vogue
> Teen and then the Cosmo years.

See, here, where you gender stereotype "women" (and not a subset of them) as
equivalent to "the PUA community", that's a good illustration of the problem
right there.

> EVERY SINGLE women's magazine you see on the shelves at the supermarket, has
> the equivalent of "PUA tips and tricks" in every issue. Such as "how to make
> him ..." or "What he likes in bed" or whatever.

Lots do, but, no, not every single one does. (Leaving aside for the moment
whether the things you describe are actually PUA-equivalent.)

> It is so prevalent, women aren't even aware of it, like a fish doesn't
> notice the water.

Actually, they do notice it. For some women, its part of the reason they buy
the magazines (though, usually -- unlike for self-proclaimed members of the
"PUA community" \-- _not_ usually a point of _pride_.) For other women, its a
source of entertainment, something to laugh about (either among each other or
with male friends.)

For other women, its part of the reason they object to many mainstream women's
fashion & lifestyle magazines as reinforces of patriarchy and traditional
gender roles.

But what is certainly _not_ true is that they don't notice it.

> Let a guy start learning some evo-psych, learn how to dress better, work on
> his conversation skills, and quit being a supplicative schlub ... and the
> Holy Hand Grenade of Guilt and Shaming gets tossed.

No, only when they proudly label _themselves_ as members of a community whose
very _name_ is about using whatever knowledge or skills they have to
manipulate women into sex.

You can't really be surprised that people react to the labels you choose for
yourself.

------
bfe
Now imagine how much undistracted work you could get done on a six-month trip
to Mars.

------
reustle
Great work on the article and CruiseSheet.com. Could you update the "From"
dropdown to combine "New York, New York" and "New York, NY"?

------
invalidOrTaken
Prediction: This will be a trend. People are less likely to be married now
than they used to be. People increasingly feel loyalty to a culture rather
than a country. Internet access on cruise ships will become cheaper.

~~~
melindajb
Already this is a trend, but for senior citizens. Many of them use cruise
ships as retirement communities for nearly similar reasons.

[http://www.aplaceformom.com/blog/2013-2-2-cruise-ship-
retire...](http://www.aplaceformom.com/blog/2013-2-2-cruise-ship-retirement-
assisted-living/)

"According to Dr. Lee Lindquist’s 2004 study comparing assisted living costs
and benefits to those offered by cruise ships, “cruises were priced similarly
to assisted living centers and were more efficacious.” Lindquist claimed that
over a 20-year life expectancy, cruise ships only cost about $2,000 more than
the cost of assisted living. And, she says, “when you compare that to the
$9,000 a month or more charged by some assisted living facilities,” a cruise
ship may seem like a bargain indeed."

~~~
joezydeco
The hazards and medical care availability pointed out in the article (Good 'ol
Cecil) seem to greatly outweigh any possible benefits.

~~~
melindajb
I won't argue with you there, but it is a trend which was the subject of the
parent.

------
drum
The idea of being able to travel around the world with just a laptop reminds
me of being a 21st century writer. Take the notepad to a remote beach and just
write. I love the idea of working on a cruise ship but I imagine it would get
kind of hard to code without internet. Is that something you face?

------
kayoone
As much as id like to work from different places alot, i just cant stand the
fact of being hunched over a laptop all day. Most of these places that are not
an office, just arent very ergonomic.

------
wehadfun
This could be somewhat bad for the cruise industry. I think cruises sell at a
loss and hope to make there money back through alcohol spas, gambling or
things someone working folks will not do.

------
driverdan
I find Las Vegas is a great place to get work done, assuming you don't have a
gambling addiction and don't mind working from hotel rooms. Hotels are super
cheap, food is reasonable (if you're careful where you eat), and you can
usually find cheap flights.

Downsides: You'll need a wireless hotspot since hotels charge too much for
internet access (ones without resort fees). Starbucks is overpriced and there
aren't many other coffee shops on the strip.

------
eli
Hmm, I wonder if I could publish a dd-wrt fork that requires you to pay me
$0.20 to $0.70 per minute for internet access.

------
gmays
Great post. Being new in my entrepreneurial career I'm just learning the
pleasures of working from anywhere.

I live in San Diego, but a few weeks ago I drove up to NorCal to visit the
parents. While there I attended Startup School in the bay area. The next week
I flew to Boston and stayed with a friend in Cambridge and attended WordCamp
Boston. I attended the Business of Software conference next and stayed at the
Seaport Hotel. At the end of the conference I took the short ride to Cape Cod
and stayed there for a week or so with some family. It was a little chilly
this time of year, but with everyone gone during the day and the tourist
season over I could really enjoy the beauty and eat at all of the great
restaurants. It's incredibly peaceful. I even spent some time at the Chatham
Bars Inn and worked from there...absolutely incredible.

By staying with friends and family and managing costs the whole few weeks
probably cost around $1,000 including plane tickets. The most expensive thing
was the three nights at the Seaport Hotel, which cost around $500 even though
I split the room with someone. It would have been a lot more if my wife was
with me since we would have wanted to do more.

So now I'm back in NorCal staying with my parents. I'll probably stay here
through Thanksgiving then head back home to San Diego for the winter.

This lifestyle really is incredible. It'll be interesting to see how it works
out when my wife and I have kids, I assume it'll be a pain in the ass. I can't
believe I had a 'real' job for so long. Sure I work about 2x as much, but I
love it. Besides, it's really only work if you'd rather be doing something
else.

~~~
wbeckler
How did you arrange a roomshare at a hotel? friend or online service?

~~~
gmays
I shared the room with a guy I met earlier this year at MicroConf (another
great conference). I think Rob Walling or Mike Taber put us in touch.

------
jscheel
This guys is enjoying life while making money and seeing the world. Who am I
to argue :) I'm not sure what I would do without internet for that long
(especially since I listen to internet radio all the time), but if you can get
past that, more power to you.

~~~
Zoomla
Internet on cruise ships is fairly cheap

------
VikingCoder
I can't wait for a Google Driverless Car to essentially be the same thing for
me.

I order one with my cell phone, it shows up, I hop in, type my destination,
and then I can ignore the world while I'm getting stuff done. Or sleeping.

I get to see interesting places, but get stuff done.

~~~
philsnow
Can't tell if trolling or serious...

Take a train.

~~~
kronholm
He's serious, and so am I. Trains go on rails, so a driverless car can go many
places trains can't. Can't wait for it to become reality either. Like in
Children of Men, but with time better.

~~~
philsnow
I think Vernor Vinge's depiction of the future of driverless cars in Rainbows
End was interesting, and something that could actually happen someday.

If you haven't read it, in the book, there are numerous driverless cars that
operate a bit like taxis: you can hail one or you can summon one. They take
you to your destination, and then rejoin the pool of free cars that are ready
to take people places.

There's a minor plot point where one of the characters fights with the
embedded logic of the car, which refuses to take him where he wants to go (and
indeed refuses to just "stop the damn car so I can get out" since he wants to
get out along the shoulder of a freeway on-ramp or something like that).

Vinge's driverless cars are neat (I would be 99% happy with them) but they
subvert the automobile's typical role in American society: rather than being
an enabler of rugged independence, it only allows you to go where the state
says you may go.

------
mrjatx
I went on my first cruise last year, 4 days, and it was one of the worst
vacation experiences of my life. Don't go when school is out unless you're
planning on bringing your asshole children and letting them roam free with the
other kids.

------
antonius
I really like the simplicity of the UI of your cruise deal website. As someone
who is currently looking to book a cruise trip, this helps.

~~~
tynan
Thank you! I actually redesigned it to be simpler on the flight over to where
the cruise started.

------
bane
Folks who are interested in this in terms of lack of distractions might also
want to consider doing commercial freighter cruises.

~~~
busterarm
I'm actually not into the whole cruise entertainment experience anyway and
would appreciate a few weeks to mostly be a loner while my needs are taken
care of. Commercial Freight is a fantastic idea that I plan on doing hopefully
next year.

------
graeme
I had this same experience working in Cuba for a month. I was writing, so I
didn't need internet. They don't have it there, except for occasional slow
access in certain access points, where I went to handle correspondence once a
week.

I stayed in a family's house. They cooked, cleaned and made coffee. I had zero
responsibilities. Results:

I wrote 50% more than usual. I read 7 novels, including Moby Dick. I
socialized more than usual. I exercised and went for long walks every day. I
studied for the GMAT.

Not having internet was very helpful, but outsourcing all domestic tasks made
a huge difference.

------
fcoury
I am currently on a trip to Miami where I am actively working every day. For
me the worst part about being away from home is finding a decent workspace
where I can really concentrate and get in the zone to program.

The chairs are usually terrible and anything more than a few hours seated
makes me want to move somewhere else. Even when working standing (using a
kitchen counter for instance) is bad: the height is sub optimal.

I would love to hear suggestions if anyone has insights or good tips for what
you do in cases like this.

------
WalterBright
> or to get caught up in the dreaded Reddit -> Hacker News -> Reddit cycle.

Dang!

------
mjn
One of the academic conferences in my field has been on a cruise on and off
[1], for some of these reasons. One of the main things people like about it is
that it keeps everyone together: everyone eats in the same dining room, drinks
at the same bars, and it's easy to meet up and split off into impromptu
discussing/working groups somewhere. Whereas in a big city people tend to
diffuse, partly by income (well-paid people go to different restaurants than
grad students), partly by interest, partly by what part of the city they found
a hotel in. Many people also like no-internet. No temptation to respond to
work emails or check Facebook during talks! And finally, it means everyone
_has_ to come for the whole conference or none of it: no showing up for half
the conference, or just for your keynote.

The cost is also surprisingly low, typically coming out less in total than a
typical "big hotel" conference does: when you add up conference-room rental,
catering for coffee breaks and lunch, cost of hotel rooms, restaurants for
dinner, etc., the cruise ship's all-in group pricing typically ends up cheaper
per person, sometimes substantially so.

The downsides:

1\. It looks bad externally, like academics wasting taxpayer money on a
boondoggle. Even if it's cheaper, the image is too luxurious. It looks better
to have a conference at a Marriott in Chicago, _even if_ that costs the
taxpayers more. It looks bad enough that some people won't come, because their
source of funds won't approve the trip.

2\. Flipside of the community tightness aspect is that it can feel
claustrophobic to be essentially stuck at the conference, literally unable to
leave the floating conference hotel.

3\. No internet means certain kinds of demos won't work, or need added
preparation. Although this is good practice anyway, because conference-room
internet is often flaky even on land.

4\. Not being able to come for only part of the conference can also be a
disadvantage, since the schedule is inflexible. If you have a hard conflict
anywhere in the conference, you have to skip it, since there is no way to
arrive half a day late, or leave even 2 hours early.

Last year we experimented with having it in a medium-sized town with a compact
city center, in a lower-cost-of-living location [2], to try to get some of the
advantages without the disadvantages. I think this worked fairly well, and I
personally liked it more than the cruise ship. But there is an added travel
disadvantage, because there are few compact towns that also have good
international airports.

[1] [http://www.fdg2014.org/](http://www.fdg2014.org/)

[2] Chania, Crete:
[http://www.fdg2013.org/attendees/](http://www.fdg2013.org/attendees/)

~~~
wehadfun
Where are keynotes or big talks held. I did not know ships had rooms where
hundreds of people could listen to a presentatio. Do cruise ships have
projctors/screens?

~~~
mjn
Many ships have auditoriums with projectors/screens. They're used for various
kinds of shows during the cruise, but you can often arrange with them (far
ahead of time, as part of booking the conference) to have use of the
auditorium during certain hours.

The 2009 version of this conference was on a Disney cruise ship, and the
keynotes and plenum sessions were in the auditorium/theatre pictured here:
[http://www.film-tech.com/ubb/f8/t006888.html](http://www.film-
tech.com/ubb/f8/t006888.html)

------
feverishaaron
According to his site, the daily rate is actually cheaper to take a cruise
than to pay rent on a 3 bdr house in much of the bay area.

------
benhebert
I took a cruise earlier this year with my girlfriend and we paid $600
combined. After tips and a lot of boozing, we ended up spending around $1000
combined an average of $100 per day. You can do it for a lot cheaper as well,
plus we weren't using the internet.

I'd do it again in a heartbeat and work if there was a steady internet
connection.

------
ufmace
Interesting idea, but the lack of internet to look things up easily could be a
headache. I suppose it would help if you already have expert-level knowledge
in the tech stack that you're working in, and/or you can download local copies
of lots of documentation.

~~~
astine
I find that for myself, that when I work without Internet access, the boost I
get from a lack of distractions usually cancels out the problems caused by
inability to look things up. A lot of the time, having to figure out things
that I would usually look up helps me to think more deeply about the problem
at hand. Downloading a manual or two is often all I really need to be
productive offline.

------
kozikow
Regarding the internet - one can set up the iodined server somewhere at home
[http://dev.kryo.se/iodine/wiki/HowtoSetup](http://dev.kryo.se/iodine/wiki/HowtoSetup)
and use elinks to browse internet
([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELinks](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELinks)) .
m.facebook.com, m.google.com, m.gmail.com have light, html-only versions of
their websites, which works OK in slow net conditions.

I would like to have an app that learn from my browsing usage and from time to
time caches my favorite part of the internet (for example in my case it would
cache the hacker news site 1 link deep from front page)

------
gurkendoktor
That sounds like a great idea. I've tried programming on a trans-siberian
train ride, but it was SO HARD to get any exercise at all - feels unhealthy.
Plus you end up thinking about food a lot (missing _good_ food, mostly).

------
benmorris
One of the reasons I enjoy cruises so much. So easy to disconnect from the
rest of the world, but you still have access if you really need it. I bought
an hour of internet on the last cruise we took to ration for the week, mostly
to check email once a day. I used RDP on the way to Puerto Rico from my cabin
to fix a quick server issue also. Connection was useable, but very laggy (as
expected).

------
taternuts
I've always wondered about this, the relative price of cruises make it a cool
place to do the work from home thing. I lived in Costa Rica for 6 months while
working from home, and it was a great experience. I was wondering about the
internet connection, and I guess if you don't have to maintain visibility via
some chat program then I guess you wouldn't really need it that often.

------
archagon
This is a pretty great idea. I'm trying to travel and work on a few projects
right now, and my average is turning out to be around $75-$100 per day for the
US. $50 per day sounds like a fun, cheap way to get some work done, assuming
you can get access to the internet at least in some capacity.

------
ThinkBeat
Am I the only person left who enjoys having a nice comfy office, a nice beefy
desktop, some books and a nice little sound system?

Even some co-workers who you can bounce ideas off of.

I find working for long periods on nothing but a laptop challenging.

------
mixmastamyk
Lot's of choices on the West Coast as well, looks like you can go up to Alaska
and down to Santiago, or over to Hawaii.

Interesting idea, although it's going to be a really tough sell to go without
the family. :/

------
rholdy
Great idea. Pretty sure I wouldn't get much done with limited internet access
though. Maybe I'll try to simulate limited connectivity for a while a see how
it goes...

------
bujatt
Airport trips I like the most for the same reason, but they never take 9+
days. Tynan made a good point.

~~~
btgeekboy
"Airport trips"? Can you elaborate?

~~~
bujatt
When I was a student and had lots of free-time in the summer. I did some trips
where I intentionally spent long hours on airports. Taking advantage of the
many low-cost airlines in Europe, once I managed to buy a whole Budapest-
London-Cork, Dublin-Barcelona, Barcelona-Budapest trip for $120. That made a
trip with 5 flights, 8 different airports in 7 days and 3 cities where I
actually stayed over.

I find airports very neutral in-between spaces and thus perfect for
concentration and work.

------
triplesec
So yes please: what are those tricks for getting cruises cheaply?

~~~
tynan
Will be writing that post very soon... I don't normally submit my own posts to
HN, but I will submit that one if no one else does.

------
macspoofing
Whatever works for you.

------
guiomie
I fuckin love this guy.

~~~
tynan
Thank you. I love you, too.

