
Drug Cartels Now Using UAVs - electic
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/08/ultralight/
======
gvb
Ultralights, not UAVs. The picture of the downed ultralight clearly has a
pilot seat and instrumentation.

The only place UAV is mentioned in the article is an editorial addition to a
quote from the sensor vendor "[unmanned aerial vehicles]". If you follow the
link to the vendor site, you will find the vendor advertises their sensor as
an adjunct _to_ "unmanned aerial systems", i.e. the boarder patrol's UAVs, not
the smuggler's UAVs.

[edit] My bad, the vendor does say it's system can track bad guy's UASes,
although I still object to the sensationalizing of the HN headline vs. the
Wired article that talks almost exclusively about ultralights.

~~~
ChuckMcM
I caught that as well. Still costs less to put a sacrificial mule in the
driver seat than to automate them. A long time ago when Georgia Tech was
flying GPS guided helicopters in the UAV contests I wondered just how much it
would cost to build a drug mule like that. Should be pretty trivial, drop via
GPS and you don't need human pilots. Of course if you get spotted a human can
abort back over the border but a robot will lead the follower to the drop
point.

~~~
K2h
so plan on the UAV getting tracked, and drop multiple payloads along the route
- expect some to get taken, but it requires DEA to follow the entire path
instead of looking for the point in the path where the UAV turns around to go
home.

actually, that is way to complicated. drug runners come up with some really
simple solutions to problems, that to more educated people seem stupid, but is
a perfect example of a MVP.

~~~
ChuckMcM
MIDD - multiple independent drug drops :-) I was going for a pun on MIRV but
didn't quite get there. One of the things is that payload value is linear with
volume and delivery platform cost is inverse exponential with size. Seems like
the ultralight as a 'platform' hits a sweet spot. The rail gun the navy is
looking at should be able to lob a projectile 200 miles so perhaps we can look
forward to artillery delivery of drugs into southern AZ.

------
mmariani
And there it goes another $US100 million [1] on technology that won't solve
the problem.

They should stop this nonsense, legalize the stuff and regulate the market.
More tax money could be collected to be invested in society, for instance, to
create jobs. Governments that do this could even fund startups, and further
create more jobs. Though, not for the right people I guess.

[1] <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4406176>

------
Schwolop
Wait a cotton picking minute. I abandoned a bunch of robotic product ideas
because I couldn't find a market niche that could afford them. I have the
skills to make fully autonomous UAVs and AUVs. Here is a very wealthy market
niche. Hmmmm....

I'm pretty sure it's legal to build and sell things that _could_ be used for
illegal purposes.

So, how many Hacker News reading intercontinental drug dealers are out there?

~~~
clueless123
Better call Saul!

------
JasonFruit
In my understanding, the load-carrying capability of most ultralights is
minimal. They give figures based on 250 pounds of drugs, but in some models of
ultralight, I would have weigh under 190 pounds just to get airborne with a
full tank of gas. I'm not able to find how many of those 223 "ultralight
incursions" were actually carrying drugs, either. I question the reality of
this problem.

~~~
clueless123
There are _may_ ultralights ranked for _two_ 190 lb passengers.. using exact
fuel a light pilot and overloading a bit would do the trick.

~~~
JasonFruit
Assuming you mean _many_ , you are wrong: there are _no_ ultralights rated for
passengers. See 103.1(a) in FAR Part 103:
<http://www.ultralighthomepage.com/FAR.part103.html>

------
jayfuerstenberg
$100 million on censors?

How about legalize some of the softer drugs they are flying so it becomes less
profitable for them to carry out such operations in the first place?

~~~
InclinedPlane
Why not legalize all of the drugs? We've proven that we can't stop people from
using drugs. What advantage is there in ensuring that the billions spent on
drugs gets funneled into the hands of hardened criminals?

~~~
jamierothfeder
Imagine our elected representatives trying to come up with laws, regulations,
tax policies, public health issues (think big tabacco), arrests (there are
currently many more alcohol related arrests than drug related arrests).

Not saying that this isn't something that shouldn't be considered, just
pointing out that it isn't without cost.

~~~
InclinedPlane
Again, what part of this is in any way worse than funneling tens of billions
of dollars a year into the hands of the most violent career criminals?

~~~
rwmj
When you said "violet career criminals" I thought of the military industrial
complex. They are also being enriched by this, since (for some unknown reason)
if it's drugs + a border that seems to mean it deserves a military-style
response.

------
electic
A simple UAV is not far off and I am sure they are working on it. You can bet
your bottom dollar on it. It is a very interesting problem to solve. The U.S.
government has to deal with subs, tunnels, and now ultralights.

~~~
jeffool
I agree. A few Google searches and I can find out how to extend the rage of a
AR.Drone to over 2 kilometers.[0] If they're serious about their business
they're doing the same thing. Slap a prepaid cell phone on it, start up any of
the popular webstreaming apps[1], and bam. You're in business.

You can fly it to a drop, check the landing space for friendly faces, and hit
a back-up spot if things don't look good. Or, if you're good, just fly it into
someone's back yard. It may be more costly than having someone run drugs, but
at least drones can't talk (save the login and broadcast info they show, I
suppose.)

And if I can think of something like this, I'd expect them to have money on
actually solving their problems.

[0] [http://dronehacks.com/2011/08/21/ar-drone-rc-mod-extends-
fli...](http://dronehacks.com/2011/08/21/ar-drone-rc-mod-extends-flight-range-
to-1-5-2-5-kilometers/) [1] <http://livestream.com>

------
zerostar07
I wonder why the "DIY for drugs" movement is taking so long to become
mainstream. I mean, it makes sense that the role of drug cartels should be
diminished by now. With governments reluctant to legalize anything, an "open
drugs" initiative might work.

~~~
david_b
That made me smile - you really don't know a lot about drug manufacturing, do
you? A couple of points: 1\. The war against drugs may not seem very effective
to you, but it is in its own perverted way: punishment is _harsh_ \- add to
that that the kind of people who would attempt something as complex as that
(brainy people who often have sth. to lose) would get raped in prison on a
daily basis. Just look at the Aryan Brotherhood - depending on the scale of
your undertaking, they are the kind of people you would be in a cell with.
Don't underestimate this as a strong deterring factor. Another interesting
article on the excesses of drug law enforcement and the history of drug
prohibition: <http://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/opium-made-easy/> 2\.
Who say there isn't such a movement? Somebody already mentioned marihuana
growing, but there was at least one very high profile webforum that discussed
these matters: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hive_%28website%29> 3\.
Precursors and apparatus are expensive and hard to get (in Texas you can't
even buy glassware without registration). 4\. If you are making drugs for your
own consumption, you want them to be safe (for example free of unhealthy
precursors) - the analytics are even more complicated and expensive than the
manufacturing. 5\. Everybody can turn on you - hiding an undertaking of that
scale would be nearly impossible if you have a social life (friends, family
etc.). As I tried to point out above, you are literally taking your life in
your hands when you are working with these things: whom would you trust with
your life? One wrong word from a drunken friend and "the conseuquences will be
never be the same". You are moving into a war zone and your loved ones with
you.

I think the future lies in biotransformations - candian scientist apparently
have alread done it for yeast: www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/493629-Canadian-
scientists-create-morphine-producing-yeast Such a system will completely
destroy both the drug market and prohibition. People will simply cultivate
their drugs in yeast in the forseeable future.

~~~
zerostar07
I think you are describing the situation in America, where i 'm not. I am
wholly against drug use on philosophical grounds, but i would assume that
their production would be easier today than it was in the past. I mean, we
have personal PCR machines, i would assume the mechanics of drugmaking would
have evolved since the 70s (no Moore's law there?)

~~~
david_b
Even other countries get pressured into drug prohibition - to my knowledge,
there is no country where it would be safe (as in legal) to make drugs for
yourself (Portugal maybe?). Not every prison system is as inhumane as that of
the US, but here in Germany we had a report just last week that the chance of
getting raped in juvenile prison is shockingly high.

Getting precursors and equipment would at least be rather expensive here (also
chemical suppliers are prone to notify the police if you buy the "wrong"
stuff).

PCR machines are essentially Peltier blocks with a chunk of aluminium on top -
there is no hard tech in these things.

A used chromatograph with detectors is easily above 10.000€ - I saw a guy in a
german chemistry forum who bought a gas chromatograph with detector(s?) for
around 10000€. You don't absolutely need one - but if you want to be sure
about the cleanliness of your product you need some kind of analysis. I have
to admit although I have vocational training in chemistry and analytics I
don't know how low the detection threshold of something like a TLC plate is,
which would be the easiest (/cheapest) way to get a guesstimate. Overall this
looks easy when you get into it (it's just a bunch of chemical reactions after
all) but the closer you look at it, the harder it gets.

There is no Moores law in chemistry - there are probably a lot of new
synthetic pathways that could be applicable; finding the right ones (to get a
good yield; to use available precursors) is hard and takes knowledge the
average weekend warrior won't have (it would be a lot easier to just use the
recipes on rhodiums archive and try to make the precursors you can't buy).

------
csense
> The agency can’t legally shoot down ultralight planes just for carrying weed
> and blow.

How do they know what they're carrying? I sure hope _some_ US government
agency (DoD springs to mind) has the authority to shoot down sketchy aerial
vehicles flying into the US from foreign territory and dropping stuff without
radio contact or filed flight plans.

Think for a bit what terrorists or foreign powers could do to us if we let our
airspace turn into a free-for-all.

~~~
FuzzyDunlop
Honestly? I think it makes a change to read an article that isn't full of
fearmongering about terrorism.

------
nikatwork
I wonder if the cartels will respond with remote-control drug zeppelins?

~~~
kitsune_
The cartels already use submarines, cargo planes, fisher boats, remote-
controlled aircrafts and corpses to smuggle drugs. Their creativity and supply
of cash are limitless.

------
vijayr
It is amazing that the porn industry (for tech stuff) and drug cartels
continuously push the boundaries - many times more than the "normal"
businesses out there.

~~~
silvestrov
They even have a mobile phone network:

[http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2011/12/mexican-army-shuts-down-
zet...](http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2011/12/mexican-army-shuts-down-zeta-drug-
cartels-encrypted-mobile-phone-network/)

------
shell0x
serious question: Are these drug cartels really more dangerous than our
governments and lobbies and the financial mafia? If you would try to sell oil
and the other big players would make less money then you would probably have
an accident.

------
mdonahoe
Imagine a scenario like the movie Iron Man:

Drug cartel kidnaps Sebastian Thrun and forces him to build an autonomous
flying drug mule.

~~~
mistercow
1) You don't need Sebastian Thrun. The groundwork has been laid, so building
the product is just a matter of applying what's already out there.

2) Drug cartels don't have to kidnap experts. They can just pay them.

