
Feeling Sad Makes Us More Creative - nether
http://www.wired.com/2010/10/feeling-sad-makes-us-more-creative/
======
Adaptive
Considering the byline on this wired article, I'd be cautious about ascribing
any accuracy to it. This is pre-scandal lehrer. I have no idea how much review
Wired has done of his previous work for them, but it's very much a reader-
beware situation.

~~~
gojomo
Lehrer was mostly knocked for plagiarism (including self-plagiarism), rather
than fabrication, if I recall correctly. Wired pledged to review his works for
them and add editorial notes where appropriate. A longer Lehrer article with
similar themes (referenced by the Wired piece) remains up at the NYTimes
without significant corrections. So, this is probably as reliable as average
Wired/NYTimes content.

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bobmichael
This reminds me of one my favorite analogies in literature, from Kierkegaard's
Either/Or:

“What is a poet? An unhappy person who conceals profound anguish in his heart
but whose lips are so formed that as sighs and cries pass over them they sound
like beautiful music. It is with him as with the poor wretches in Phalaris's
bronze bull, who were slowly tortured over a slow fire; their screams could
not reach the tyrant's ears to terrify him; to him they sounded like sweet
music.”

Phalaris's bronze bull is a Brazen Bull:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazen_bull](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazen_bull)

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mark_integerdsv
Tortured artist.

In my own experience this is very true.

I have a penchant for poetry and writing but I only face the page in times of
turmoil.

The distinction between heartbroken me and happy me in terms of power through
the pen is staggering.

I have at times even considered self sabotage in order to align these
necessary forces and generate a period of productivity in writing.

I have a beautiful wife and beautiful children and I could never do it but
still I have found myself considering it.

Such is the power of this effect in my own personal case.

------
tannerc
Research over the last decade has shown that feeling creative is empowered by
the intensity of emotion, not necessarily whether the emotion is a negative
one or positive one. What matters most is being in an "active mood."

The research indicates that our content-like moods are not very motivating for
states of original thought. That's not to say you can't have a great idea by
being perfectly content, only that you're more inclined to experience
creative-like thinking in a state of one polar end of the mood spectrum or the
other.

Negative moods can be motivating and help focus on what's in front of us
rather than pre-existing assumptions. Positive moods can leave us feeling open
to new possibilities, leading to an increase in divergent thinking and making
unusual associations as a result.

For those interested, I've written about this before with more detail here:
[http://creativesomething.net/post/76220500752/whats-the-
best...](http://creativesomething.net/post/76220500752/whats-the-best-mood-
for-creativity)

~~~
threatofrain
I already posted this, but it was relevant to you so I repeat:

Manic depressive people have also been observed before to perform more
variably between-and-within subject (on a puzzle-game with more than one
solution) during their depressed state, while performing more stereotypically
during their manic states.

Another variation of the study looked at how manic depressive people who
report low sensitivity or intensity to their own feelings would _not_
experience the same patterns in behavioral variability during their manic and
depressive swings (this is just an enriching complication, not something that
directly responds to you).

Frustration in rats and humans alike produce variable behavior, whereas
satisfaction produces stereotypical behavior. Why is this interesting? Because
stereotypy is the enemy of learning and innovation, while being the friend to
optimizers, while variability is a friend to learning and innovation, but an
enemy to optimization. If you are often doing the same things, you experience
an opportunity cost in which you could've been NOT doing the same thing.

That's not to say that if you do the same thing, then you are optimal, or that
if you change up your behavior, then you are creative. Creativity is a mere
possibility to change and newness.

~~~
tannerc
Thanks for repeating for me, this is fascinating. Do you have a link to the
source information for this?

~~~
threatofrain
Hmm... I could give you a link to a Google Drive folder full of articles on
factors to behavioral variability and stereotypy.

But you'd have to do the digging yourself, or find an authoritative review
article that summarizes current state of research (much better), as I'm a bit
lazy.

I understand the internet has this culture of expecting someone who makes a
claim to have the burden of proof to present citations, but honestly, it's too
much work, and not even scientists do this. Instead, they have unpaid laborers
do it for them for free.

------
jarcane
It would be redundant of me to rehash my thoughts on this, so I'll simply link
my reply to this same assertion in the other thread:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8916129](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8916129)

To summarize: bullshit. Depression and 'feeling sad' were what kept me from
accomplishing anything of merit for over a decade.

~~~
jmcqk6
There is a different between feeling sad and depression. Equating the two is a
problem. You're absolutely right that depression is paralyzing. You are
absolutely wrong that feeling sad is the same as being depressed.

------
b6
I don't know if there's any real connection between feeling down and being
creative, but the thought had occurred to me. Friends and I have joked
(joked!) that Trent Reznor should get back on heroin and resume making the
kind of music he did back when he seemed miserable. And feeling down tends to
make me want to sit and play guitar.

~~~
bronz
I prefer the way he is now. His soundtrack work is very good.

~~~
libraryatnight
Yes, he's an artist I've enjoyed watching change and sort of growing up and
older with. I still very much enjoy his old work, but I also really enjoy the
things he does now.

------
stronglikedan
> Angst has creative perks.

I've experienced this myself, although not out of depression or sadness, but
fear and anxiety. For instance, writing an entire paper for class the night
before it's due, and somehow pulling off a good grade. I've always just told
myself that I'm not creative until I have to be.

------
_98fj
Feeling well and bad are not opposites on one scale, but rather different
brain-function.

Bad feelings are often actually anxiety or fear, which lead to a broadening of
attention: perceiving many different things, but none of them clearly. Exactly
what is needed to get away from a situation. This is where the creativity
might come from.

Please note that this broadening of attention doesn't mean you can think
clear, which is the problem with depression: having thousands of dysfunctional
thoughts rotating, without being able to focus on one of them properly. (until
the brain just shuts down with exhaustion).

Feeling well, on the other hand, often incorporates feeling in-the-zone, being
focussed on something, without seeing all the parts around it.

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spanko_at_large
[http://nautil.us/blog/how-meaning-withdrawal-aka-boredom-
can...](http://nautil.us/blog/how-meaning-withdrawal-aka-boredom-can-boost-
creativity)

[http://nautil.us/issue/20/creativity/to-be-more-creative-
che...](http://nautil.us/issue/20/creativity/to-be-more-creative-cheer-up-rd)

Clearly everything boosts creativity

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the_cat_kittles
to me, any real creative accomplishments require considerable sustained
effort. generally, feeling shitty saps energy, so id say it puts the skids on
getting big things finished. however, necessity is the mother of invention,
and people will do anything to feel better- often artistic and creative acts
can give someone something tangible that they can control (to some degree).
then you get addicted by the progress and it becomes self sustaining. so in
that sense, the negative emotions can be a source of inspiration. from my own
experience, the moments of particularly creative inspiration are always a
product of effort, or at the very least highly correlated. since effort can be
summoned from both negative and positive emotions, i think its hard to say
that one side is more powerful.

------
threatofrain
Manic depressive people have also been observed before to perform more
variably between-and-within subject (on a puzzle-game with more than one
solution) during their depressed state, while performing more stereotypically
during their manic states.

Another variation of the study looked at how manic depressive people who
report low sensitivity or intensity to their own feelings would _not_
experience the same patterns in behavioral variability during their manic and
depressive swings.

------
ufukbay
This might not be directly related to what is described in the article but I'm
pretty sure that great things come out of desperation. Sometimes you really
have to hit the bottom in your life and feel miserable to realize that you
actually have to do something or try harder.

The best thing about getting out of a difficult situation is that once you
managed to do so, you definitely don't want to go back since you experienced
it first hand and know how much it sucks. :)

------
thewarrior
This isn't new

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creativity_and_mental_illness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creativity_and_mental_illness)

------
pbowyer
I found I did my best photography after breaking up with my girlfriend, the
death of a loved one... the intensity of feeling in those photos is unmatched.

Now, I hardly take any photos. Life is much more pleasant, even happy, and the
photos I take are empty of any emotion. I'm glad for life to be so great, but
sometimes wish for the unhappiness, for the astounding creativity it provided.

~~~
cLeEOGPw
I found that the "creativity" from sadness is mostly pseudo intellectual
thoughts. The kind of thoughts that are pretty meaningless. Example: "Life has
the name of life, but in reality it is death." This thought makes the one who
made it up feel smarter, and so maybe a little happier, but in reality it has
no actual meaning or purpose other than make people feel good about
themselves.

------
adamhacka
Couldn't agree more. Tend to find i'm most productive when i'm miserable. Just
as enthusiasm for a project can lead to great things, the motivation to get
yourself out of a bad mood can work equally well - but I wouldn't recommend
secluding yourself in the hope that you'll suddenly become a talented
writer/philosopher/scientist!

------
moriara
Being creative sounds pretty miserable, one article on front page says boredom
boosts it while the other claims sadness does...

~~~
aruggirello
...while another one says you must cheer up:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8912699](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8912699)

Pretty confusing, isn't it?

~~~
swah
In my experience, I have more ideas when happy and already having a couple in
the back of my mind.

------
mhomde
Explains why no one can makes a second hit :)

------
sgt
As someone's who's feeling sad (and remorse) right now, I am not feeling any
creative juices.

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shittyanalogy
Feeling sad can _sometimes_ make _some people_ more _inspired_. But then again
so can everything else.

Creativity, inspiration and quality of art are not quantifiable. This is
pseudo science backed by anecdotal evidence wrapped in an emotional swaddling
blanket.

------
jboynyc
"Happiness writes white" has always been one of my favorite cliches.

~~~
sitkack
Happiness is a state you should pass through, not rest in.

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fnordsensei
Correlation does not imply causation, however. There could be a more complex
relationship between the two than direct causality.

------
throwawayaway
I find that a pathological lack of any emotion or sentiment is key to
creativity and productivity. Tabula Rasa is my mantra.

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caniscrator
It ain't like feeling sad or cheering up, rather more spending time with one
own-self makes it happen.

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cturhan
Two titles on the front page. One says cheer up to be more creative and the
other says feel sad. Interesting

~~~
JoshTriplett
They're not mutually contradictory; perhaps feeling strong emotions, in
general, gets people more creative?

~~~
visakanv
Yeah. If you want to do things differently, you have to see things
differently, and/or you have to want different things. And different emotional
states achieve that. Or drugs. Or travel. Or anything, really, apart from "the
same thing that happened yesterday". (Which is most people's default.)

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barrystaes
In other news: (same HN page)

To Be More Creative, Cheer Up (nautil.us)
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8912699](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8912699)

------
jcrei
HN, make up your mind.

