
Ask HN: I’m scared of losing GMail access. Do email protection laws exist? - throwaway156503
Hi, HN. The older I get, the more frightened I am of losing access to my GMail account. My trust in Google to do the right thing has diminished over time.<p>In the event Google decides to arbitrarily terminate my Google account, are there any email protections for me as a citizen of any country?<p>So much of the developed world digital life revolves around email usage. I don’t believe citizens of any nation have, in any government jurisdictions, any protection from businesses cutting off access to their email accounts. Am I wrong about this?<p>If not, how can I protect myself from suddenly being cut off from such a highly critical aspect of communication? The many institutions of the world intermingle government, financial, educational, utility, and other service access with the concept of an email address.<p>Once upon a time, GMail was a revolutionary product. I now find some of Google’s practices anti-consumer and a few business decisions of theirs a liability.
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smt88
Your fear is rational. It's happened to other people. I would suggest going to
a paid provider like Fastmail and checking their terms of service. I don't
know of any protections that exist by law at the moment.

My horror story:

I have a mentally ill relative who only logged in every 6 months. He got
treatment and wanted to resume using his email account. Guess what? Google
thought his activity was "suspicious" and permanently locked him out. We went
through an infuriating loop of proving his identity, then getting a message
saying a human was reviewing it. Then we'd go back to proving his identity.
This went on for 15-20 cycles over the course of 8 months.

The only way to get out of it was to contact my friend who works for Google.
Otherwise my relative had lost gigabytes of irreplaceable data. We would've
gladly paid $1,000+ for the privilege of talking to a real human about it, but
that's impossible.

~~~
catacombs
That's infuriating. Something similar happened to my friend a few months ago.
He couldn't log in to his Google account for weeks because the company took
forever to verify his identity.

The fact Google doesn't have a way for people to talk to a human during a
crisis is moronic. That's why I've moved off Google with as much stuff as
possible.

I don't think I'd have the patience to deal with something like this and rely
on automated systems to deal with my problems.

~~~
surewhynat
I logged into an old hotmail email to recover a related account, and it had
deleted all my messages because I hadn't been active for 12 months.

The more I think about it, we really do need a more distributed architecture.
The whole concept of "the cloud" really sucks

~~~
jolmg
Email is about as distributed as it gets. How would you consider it can be
more distributed? If it's about the ability to backup messages, you can do
that with any MRA (Mail Retrieval Agent) program like mbsync/isync[1], or
offlineimap[2].

[1] [http://isync.sourceforge.net](http://isync.sourceforge.net)

[2] [http://offlineimap.org/](http://offlineimap.org/)

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quickthrower2
I am guessing you are scared because:

(i) you won't be able to access importing accounts e.g. bank accounts where
your email is your gmail account.

(ii) you won't be able to see your old emails.

Solutions

(i) Buy a domain name and use that for your emails. Forward those to GMail
initially but you can forward them to something else if you ever lose GMail
access. Update all your accounts to this new email address.

(ii) Use Google Takeout to download all of your Google data, including your
GMail.

~~~
jolmg
(ii) You can also download all your mail via IMAP(S). MRA (Mail Retrieval
Agent) programs like isync/mbsync, offlineimap, and others do this. They sync,
so you can run them regularly to download just the new mails and keep your
backups updated. Whereas using Google Takeout would give you the whole thing
everytime.

------
perl4ever
The interesting thing about Gmail for me, is that I lost the ability to log in
to my primary Gmail account quite some time ago (well over a year I think) and
yet I still have a device that remains logged in and showing me new mail even
though I don't have the password, can't send mail, and can't reset the
password by any means.

I am beginning to think it is a notable security hole, as Gmail shouldn't, and
surely does not in general, allow a session to last for years without timing
out or requiring re-authentication.

~~~
jobigoud
Are you sure the password isn't saved somewhere in the mail client on the
device and sent up regularly?

~~~
perl4ever
Possibly, although it won't send. And, you know, Google is often pretty
aggressive at locking devices out if it thinks they are insecure. This is a
1st gen Kindle Fire, and I'm pretty sure it is very obsolete and not getting
updates for a while. So even if it is still _trying_ to log in, that doesn't
make it expected in my mind that it would continue to work.

If it were sending the password (out over WiFi to my tethered phone) is there
a way for a bear of very little brain to MITM it?

------
golem14
a) Make frequent backups via google Takeouta b) forward all your mail to a
secondary account c) don't use a consumer account (@gmail.com) but pay for
your domain and use email@yourorg.com

d) use your gmail account only for gmail and do YT, adwords etc from another
google account so that if you run afoul of Terms of service on one product
your gmail is not terminated also.

Only c) allows you to keep your email address after losing access to gmail. a)
and b) just protect your data.

But based on anecdata, Google is unlikely to kick out users unless there's
some bad behaviour (which may seem innocent to you)

~~~
throwaway156503
> Google is unlikely to kick out users unless there's some bad behaviour
> (which may seem innocent to you)

I don't believe I've ever violated any terms of service Google has ever
outlined. In practice, I have nothing to worry about. This concern of mine
primarily revolves around legal protections, and rights as a "digital citizen"
of sorts.

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robertcope
This is a good example of why everyone should have their own domain. Using
@gmail.com or any other "mass" email domain is just not a great practice.
IMHO, of course.

~~~
throwaway156503
I have the privilege of doing this, and have professional contacts utilize
such an address. For the layman, this would take considerable effort.

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usrlocaletc
Need to use a cloud synchronization AND a backup service/scheduled app, or
switch email providers such as setting up your own domain and email server in
a country like Sweden, Iceland or Ukraine.

\- [https://www.cloudhq.net](https://www.cloudhq.net)

\- Make periodic backups of Gmail using IMAP
[https://duckduckgo.com/?q=gmail+backup+migration](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=gmail+backup+migration)

~~~
smt88
Ukraine is not safe from Russian influence and could possibly be annexed in
coming years.

~~~
usrlocaletc
You're wrong because you're not applying nuance and you're trying to
prognosticate. It depends on which part of Ukraine. All of Ukraine is
extremely unlikely to be annexed because Putin is fairly contained by a
multiplicity of international pressures. More likely, if at all, a portion of
one of the Baltic states or a region around the Crimea would get take, but
that's unlikely.

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sammyo
I was thinking of basically using gmail as a filter. Get a custom domain,
forward all email to gmail then read via another service.

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aquabeagle
Do you not know there are other e-mail providers that will take your money in
exchange for services?

~~~
smt88
Gmail was revolutionary because it was, for most of its history, _better_ than
even paid email services.

OP might know that paid services exist, but many of them have a reputation for
having worse search and fewer access options than Gmail.

~~~
throwaway156503
Correct.

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simplecomplex
Don’t use google. Use fastmail and use the backups. Problem solved.

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probinso
switch to an email host that you trust. Consider paying for it

