
Bullying has to stop, now. - sw007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltun92DfnPY
======
jbrooksuk
I can relate to this website and cause. I was bullied throughout my entire
high school life, in the UK that's a total of 5 years. I hated every single
second of it and my academic skills reflect this. I wasn't a troubled kid, I
wasn't someone who looked to cause trouble and I wasn't in trouble except a
couple of occasions. I found myself being physically beaten almost every day
for being the runt of the kids.

I didn't hit puberty till I was 16/17, I was about 5ft 4" during high school
and now I'm 6t 2" at 21. I was your typical victim, glasses, braces, good at
computers. None of it helped me. If I wasn't being beaten I was being called
names, and as much as the phrase "sticks and stones may break my bones but
names will never hurt me" is thrown around, it's not true.

Honestly, I thought about committing suicide time and time again. The teachers
all but provoked the bullies and my parents - who know better now - assumed
the teachers would deal wit it. They didn't. Eventually I gave up mentioning
it to be people. I was pushed down stairs, burnt with glue guns, you name it.

On one occasion, I was beaten in class, my teacher turned around, saw what
happened and looked away. She knew full well what happened.

Eventually I dealt with it myself, I beat the crap out of the main bully. I
wasn't proud of it, but I sorted it myself. It was that moment my life
changed, the last month of school - yes, it took me that long to sort - was
completely different for me, I had a couple of friends. I happened to muse the
other day on Twitter that if I could do one thing differently, it'd be school.
I'd sort my problems on day one.

These days however I've achieved quite a lot, I'm proud of what I've done with
my life and in some ways grateful for the bullying. It pushed me to better
myself, I pursued computing, I'm now Lead Developer for a travel company. I
have plans for a startup. I'm engaged. Life is awesome.

I donate to Beat Bullying each year, this looks like a great project.

~~~
MattBearman
It's odd, people always say things like "violence doesn't solve anything" but
I've heard so many stories like yours where the bullying only stops when the
victim retaliates with force.

While I've personally never been on either end of bullying, what I've heard
leads me to believe that for extreme physical bullying, getting violent can be
the solution.

~~~
Nursie
At age 9 people used to take my stuff and occasionally bully me in a sort of
low-grade way. Until I beat the tar out of the main offender. You get a
reputation as the smart/nerdy guy that once smashed the jock's head into a
wall and nobody really bothers you again.

Bullying should absolutely be stopped by other means, but when it comes down
to it these are animal level dominance games amongst young apes and violence
does often solve them. I'm not saying it should, but it does.

If/when I have kids they'll be told to defend themselves and that their
parents will back them up even if the school doesn't.

~~~
pmahoney
One of my fears about telling kids to defend themselves with force is what if
the bully has a gang of friends? An older brother? Access to a weapon? How
likely is it that a bully, finally beaten by the victim, escalates further?

~~~
Nursie
I have no idea, that would be a study for a psychologist.

I just know that people tend to stop bothering you if you show them you aren't
a pushover. You don't have to beat them into the dirt, you just have to hit
back.

------
ErrantX
I don't think anything has touched me this deeply for years. I even got a
little teary (which is rare for me).

A lot of this I can relate to. School was hell for me, and I still struggle to
forgive the adults around me during that period who, despite knowing what I
(and others) faced, failed us utterly. Of course, school is rough and tumble -
but when things went too far they sympathised, and in some rare cases talked
to the bullies parents. I don't ever remember anyone being excluded or
punished properly, though.

One thing I am never, ever, going to tell my kids is the stupid "sticks and
stones" rhyme. That's just to make _you_ feel better, not them. I'd get
depressed, or upset, and get hugs and sympathy, but no solutions.

The first guy he describes in this video I can relate to. I became withdrawn,
anti-social, believing that solace was in books and learning rather than other
people. Fortunately I ran into some people at university who slowly dragged me
out of myself. And, eventually, I met a girl who tore apart my world and
helped me rebuild it (although, maybe she didn't realise at the time, I'd got
so good at hiding everything away).

One particular idiot at school loved to taunt me, hold my upside down by my
ankles. One day I snapped, and as he ran at me I picked up a chair and swung
it. So. Much. Trouble. I was very nearly expelled... The same guy was a
consummate bully, big, loud and evil to anyone weaker than him. There was
another kid in our class, a bit large but it was more muscle than fat. He was
lovely, quiet and very very odd (I think he came from a bad family). One day
the bully was shaking down some younger kids in the playground and, I remember
this vividly, this guy just decided enough was enough. He calmly walked across
the playground and threw bully against the wall. Pounded him in the face a few
times and told him to stop. It worked, so so well (he was excluded of course,
but there you go...), and we rarely suffered again.

What does this teach kids? That there is no justice in the world except that
which you take by violence?

I am certain that school ripped up several years of my life, and still
adversely affects me to this day. But what can we do? Kids will be kids, eh?

~~~
mtoddh
_One thing I am never, ever, going to tell my kids is the stupid "sticks and
stones" rhyme. That's just to make you feel better, not them._

I agree. Part of the problem is that adults tend to hold kids to a much
different standard than they hold themselves. For instance, as an adult, if
I'm working in a company where verbal bullying and harassment is a problem,
and HR does nothing to address the situation, then I'll just give my two-week
notice and move on to another company. Kids on the other hand don't have the
option of giving their two-week notice and moving on to another school because
of a 'hostile work environment'.

How many adults do you think would stick around at a company if they had to
put up with the level of violence and harassment we subject our kids to in
schools? And if the only response they got back from management and HR was a
"sticks and stones" speech? Forget about it! Which highlights another
difference- it's also in a company's own self interest to address these issues
seriously, because if they don't, it's gonna effect their bottom line when
good employees start leaving. But, what motivation do schools really have-
it's not as if their "employees" (students) get to quit if they don't like the
way they are being treated.

 _What does this teach kids? That there is no justice in the world except that
which you take by violence?_

My son is only two and a half right now. When he gets older my advice to him
will be to first go through all of the proper channels in case bullying comes
up. Give the system a chance to work, and get some documentation that you did
so. And if it does work great. And if it doesn't, a right-cross to the bully's
nose is what worked for me when I was a kid. Will this stop the bully from
picking on people? Probably not - but it will likely make him stop picking on
_you_. He'll move on to the next victim - one who won't fight back.

~~~
Swizec
> My son is only two and a half right now. When he gets older my advice to him
> will be to first go through all of the proper channels in case bullying
> comes up. Give the system a chance to work, and get some documentation that
> you did so. And if it does work great.

You are forgetting the schoolyard code. You _never_ go to the appropriate
channels. Ever. That is one of the worst things a kid can do to themselves.

The right response to physical bullying is to stand up for yourself. It's one
of the most important lessons a person can learn - how and when to stand up
for themselves.

I was bullied a lot in primary school, but I dealt with it and as much as
bullies liked picking on me, they also knew going too far would hurt. A lot.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
Physical violence never helps. You'll just get in trouble for attacking them.

~~~
Swizec
Perhaps it's different now than it was 15 years ago, but no you wouldn't.
Well, unless you properly damage someone ...

... but even then, they will stick to the code and you're both best palls in
the principal's office and nothing happened. Any witness they ask will also
support the two of you just playing and something silly happening by accident.

The only people in school who never get any respect, in my experience at
least, are the ones who snitch, or generally side with the adults.

------
Tichy
The thing that strikes me about school is that people are pretty much locked
into it. Once you get out of that system, if you are surrounded by nasty
people, you can usually just leave. That's what I do, anyway. With school, not
so much luck - it's possible to transfer to another school, but it's usually
not very easy to pull of.

Of course the feeling of not being liked sticks, too, but perhaps it wouldn't
even manifest itself so much if kids wouldn't have to expose themselves to so
much nastiness to begin with.

I wish I could explain to all the depressed kids that there is actually a
whole world out there, beyond the borders of the small environment they grew
up in. With 6 billion people on the planet, there are many, many people you
can relate to. The people you went to school with are just random.

~~~
Cthulhu_
And yet, being 'locked in', as you describe it, teaches a valuable life
lesson: sometimes you have to deal with what you have, instead of run away or
hide. As described above, sometimes you need to punch a factor that makes your
situation undesireable and triggers your "flight" response to greatly increase
your situation.

As in, this is your life, deal with it. You can't run away, so fix your
problems instead of running from them. Teachers turn their back on you, so
it's up to you. etc etc etc.

Learning that will help you in your life. Your job sucks: you can either run
away and find something else, or you can kick it into high gear and make it
worth your while, save the company, get rich. Depending on situation, of
course.

~~~
Mahn
You forget that you are kid when you are in school; you barely scratched the
surface of understanding how people think, what motivates and what drives
them, heck you don't even know how would you take care of yourself alone. And
yet you're being asked to deal with this. Yes, we eventually have to learn how
to deal with life, but not this way.

------
RyanMcGreal
Is it fair to hypothesize that a high proportion of people working in tech
today were bullied and abused as children? Yet here we are today, as a
community, still bullying, intimidating and harassing women who try to join
our field. Something to think about as we recall the hurts that seared and
traumatized us not so many years ago.

~~~
drakeandrews
It's very easy for the abused to turn into abusers, hell I nearly did. It is
what is making me so uncomfortable reading these comments advocating that the
solution is to let the abused extract violence on their abusers. In too many
cases, the abused discovers that they like the taste of violence, the power it
grants them over those weaker or slower than them. And I can't knock them for
that, violence feels __wonderful __. That's why I've had to be very careful
not to let myself slip into that mold and remind myself that on the other side
there is someone who is feeling the very same pain you shirk from.

------
throwaway_1234
In my previous job (my current one is far better), I experienced workplace
bullying.

Though childhood bullying is more traumatic long-term, and often far more
overtly abusive, workplace bullying is in many ways harder to resolve, having
a fight or full confrontation would often result in sacking + not being able
to get a good reference going forward.

The typical way it works is via underhand comments + actions designed to put
you down but which generally look perfectly acceptable to other colleagues.
This makes it easy to make out that it's your fault, you're hysterical, why
are you causing trouble when there isn't any?

No amount of bringing it up caused any managers up the line to do anything
about it either - it wasn't in their interest to take the flak from
challenging the people involved.

The really pernicious aspect of it is how it grinds down your confidence to
the point where you start actually believing there really is something very
wrong with you. I spent months afterwards emotionally burnt out, even getting
a new job was incredibly hard because I had begun to truly believe I was just
totally shit at my job, programming, etc.

The irony was, a simple word with the people concerned from a manager would
have resolved a lot of the issue. The effort required was minimal and the
consequences huge.

Please, if you're a middle/upper manager, don't put your career concerns over
the human beings 'below' you. And if you do, don't kid yourself about what
you're doing.

------
unimpressive
I think that Paul Graham's essay "Why Nerds Are Unpopular." hasn't aged a
day.[0]

I sincerely doubt that anybody is going to stop bullying anywhere without
addressing the root causes. And I doubt the root cause is that kids are
inherently evil monsters.

[0]: <http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html>

------
michaelgrafl
Very impressive piece of work.

But what the hell with the UI of this website? It can't find a link to the
respective Youtube site, nor can I click the annotations.

It looks really nice, but it's not very usable like that.

~~~
sw007
Yes sorry about this. The site - GetInspired365 has two parts to it. One part
which is a daily dose of inspiration, and another which is where users can
submit inspiring things they've found - a user has posted this video on to the
site and not included the source and as such may be a bit frustrating. The
original source is here - <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltun92DfnPY>

~~~
Nux
THANK YOU for the youtube link! The original site made my blood pressure go up
and my damn browser freeze. Beautiful clip!

------
petercooper
Going off on a tangent here, but do people who are good at sports often suffer
long term bullying at school?

I wasn't bullied at school, IMHO (nothing physical, the odd bit of name
calling.. which they got back ;-)) but it seemed as if people who were into
sports avoided every hassle, including the sportier geeks who were in the
football team, etc.

Looking back, I have to wonder if there's something about being active, being
in teams, or the effect doing sports has on your body (language) that means
you either fit in better, stand up for yourself more, etc. I certainly feel
that way as an adult now trying to become more active. It changes how you hold
yourself.

My daughter is now in all the social and sports clubs we can get in and which
she enjoys. My parents never encouraged me into being active or joining clubs,
but I have to wonder if I had been, maybe I'd be very different (not that I'm
unhappy with my lot now :-)) and maybe my daughter could end up being one of
the "popular kids" just by virtue of being active and socializing with her
peers early.

~~~
robinh
I think it may very well be the other way around. Example: I used to do
sports. Then the bullies came. Then I stopped doing sports because that's
where they were.

~~~
polymatter
2nd this. But sports do help with confidence and self-esteem too.

------
pinchyfingers
The real problem is state-mandated detention centers for children. Bullying is
a feature of the school system. Put kids in a healthy environment that leaves
room for freedom and empowerment, and all of these kinds of problems would
greatly diminish.

Kids bully each other because we bully them.

------
InclinedPlane
We live in a country that is heavily optimized toward factory work. Designed
to produce a citizenry which is made up primarily of compliant, obedient
assembly line workers in an era where the dubious advantages that once had are
no longer relevant. Our labor laws, our political systems, and especially our
public educational system (which is heavily based on the Prussian model) have
been built along these models. The impedance mismatch is becoming greater and
greater over time, we would be wise to understand the root of the problem and
work to fix it.

------
duopixel
I'd like to read an honest account from a former bully who matured into a
fully functional adult. To this day I don't understand the motivation of
terrorizing other kids. I've met some former bullies but it seems that they
either don't remember or don't want to deal with understanding it themselves.

~~~
fmavituna
> To this day I don't understand the motivation of terrorizing other kids.

Really?

Look at the popular culture around you, comedy movies, youtube videos, blogs
all about bullying people (fail blog and all fail culture), look at the front
page of reddit etc.

I understand that if you don't personally connected but you can see that
people enjoy other people's failures and misery.

This kind of popular culture and the internet makes it even worse.

~~~
duopixel
> people enjoy other people's failures and misery

This is a very grim outlook on life. What I see in popular culture is—for the
most part—people being clowns in order to draw attention. I also think that
having laughs at the expense of someone else's misfortune is not at the same
level as causing misfortune in order to get some laughs, completely different
things.

------
japhyr
I have been teaching for about 15 years, with a mix of high school and middle
school experience. I also worked for 6 months in an elementary school
supporting students behaviorally. I have seen bullying my entire professional
life.

I have participated in countless professional development experiences over the
years, and I have grown a healthy skepticism towards commercial offerings that
aim to solve school-based problems. So I was not excited when we had to do a
workshop based on the Olweus bullying prevention program [1]. I was completely
impressed, however. This organization has examined bullying very carefully,
and they have used the results of their studies to offer meaningful, concrete
steps that can be taken to deal effectively with bullying.

The two clearest things I learned were a good working definition of bullying
[2], and a breakdown of the roles that people play in a bullying situation
[3]. Bullying is negative behavior aimed at a person who will have difficulty
defending themselves; it is repetitive in nature; and it is carried out by
someone with an imbalance of power over someone else.

In bullying situations, there are 4 negative roles: bullies, followers,
supporters, and passive supporters. There are disengaged onlookers. There is a
person who is being bullied, and there may be defenders and potential
defenders.

I learned that is often best to give our attention, when interrupting
bullying, to the victim. Clearly if there is serious, immediate physical
danger, we confront the bully first. But if saying something simple like, "Hey
xxx, I don't like the way you're being treated, do you want to take a walk
with me?" takes the power away from the bully, and stops giving that person
the attention they have been craving. This is not enough; we need to follow up
by dealing directly with the bully. But engaging the bully directly just feeds
them the attention they want, and gives them more power.

Quick story: My high school classroom looks out on the back of a kindergarten-
first grade playground. My students and I watch little kids play all day long.
We watch all the misfit kids play at the back, less-watched part of the
playground. Most of what we see is low-level shoving, self-regulated by peer
groups. I finally saw something I needed to interrupt last week. I watched a
kindergarten kid grab another kid by the collar, shove him against a chain
link fence, and hold his hand up to the kids face like a gun. I walked over
and said, "Hi, my name is Eric, who are you?" to the bullying kid. He let go
and got really humble, and said his name. Then I remembered to focus on the
victim. He turned around, and he was a classic snot-nosed kid who looked like
he'd be picked on a lot. I asked him his name, said it didn't look like he was
being treated very well, and talked to him for a few minutes. All of the
onlookers gave their attention to the victim, and you could see the bully
backing out, not in fear, but because no one was paying attention to him. I
did ask the bully before they dispersed, "Do you really want to shoot
someone?" He said no, and I said he might want to find another way to play. By
the way, if he had run off, I would have gone into the school and found him in
his classroom. Those kids need to know that strong, positive adults are
watching them.

[1] - <http://www.violencepreventionworks.org/public/index.page>

[2] -
[http://www.violencepreventionworks.org/public/faqs.page#Answ...](http://www.violencepreventionworks.org/public/faqs.page#Answer_numberCbQ1)

[3] (pdf, page 4) - [http://www.pa-strengthening-
families.org/providers/308/bully...](http://www.pa-strengthening-
families.org/providers/308/bullying_presenter_handouts/Olweus-at-a-Glance.pdf)

~~~
lobo_tuerto
Excellent example about how to handle a bullying situation. Now I know how can
I help in a positive way if I detect something similar going on.

------
sheraz
You want a real show about bullying? Watch 3'oclock high [1]. It's a fun story
about hitting back.

I thought that video was horrible. Kids need to learn to hit back, either
physically or verbally.

My kids will learn to hit back because that is how I grew up. I've blooded
lips and blackened eyes, and I've had it done to me.

I grew up where the teachers were smart enough (and had enough autonomy) to
let some of this play out. Fights were broken up and kids punished, but the
penalties were not juvenile hall and a ride in a police car. Instead there was
some detention and parent conferences, and often the respect of your peers.

[1] - <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094138/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1>

------
redact207
Too melodramatic, but I love the animation style.

~~~
InclinedPlane
I disagree. Bullying in public schools has one of the biggest impacts on
social, cultural, and personal development. It's not just "a thing that
happens" and has no effect, it's ubiquitous and it has a profound negative
effect on millions upon millions of people. We give it short shrift so often
because we have become inured to it. Too often we think it's just an
inescapable fact of life, but it's not.

------
InclinedPlane
I hate that this link/discussion only spent a few hours on the front page of
HN, and has been replaced mostly be frivolous crap.

I'm sure the trivia behind why so many programming languages use curly braces
is super fascinating, but I'd much rather be discussing something of
substance.

Are these honestly the things that people would rather be discussing instead
of bullying and the work of poetry and art that has inspired this discussion?

I'm a little bit disgusted by the HN community at large right now. If I could
reset my karma level to 0 in trade for keeping just this one thread on the
front page for a whole day I'd do it in a heart beat.

------
chimpinee
I don't think people appreciate how intractable a problem bullying is. For
instance, bullying is qualitatively indistinguishable from teasing, which is
regarded by most as part of normal, healthy socialisation. Hence low-level
bullying goes unperceived. OTOH intense bullying is an embarrassment to the
school statistics and hence frequently denied or covered up.

We live in a society where people still put a tremendous amount of effort into
being normal and liked, and as a corollary we tend to persecute those who
don't do this. Bullies are our unappointed henchmen.

------
jader201
As a parent, bullying -- or any type of oppressive actions on my children --
is something that terrifies me. Not because I want to shield my children from
the world and its negative impacts -- because I want them to learn that the
world is not perfect, and to be able to cope with an imperfect society.

But because of the fact that these afflictions are often permanent and
irreversible.

I think the best hope a child has against bullying is to have a parent that
cares, and is educated of the impacts of bullying and how to minimize the
risks of their child being subject to bullying.

Of course, this doesn't address the root issue -- the bully. And while we as a
society can work towards educating others to help prevent their child from
turning into a bully, there's obviously little I can do, as a parent, to
change the behavior of a bully.

I feel that best way I can help my child not _be_ the bully is to show them
unconditional love, the best I know how, and to help them to love others. I
also try to equip them with empathy so that they understand that their actions
have a real impact on others, but this is hard sometimes -- especially with
younger children.

However, I will honestly say that I don't feel equipped, as a parent, to help
my child deal with bullying appropriately and effectively. Looking through
this thread, I see a couple links, but does the hacker community have other
good resources to equipping parents on how to help their child handle
bullying?

------
nmudgal
If you ever feel alone in this <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5270460>

------
Carlee
Being bullied is a terrible thing to experience, and I wish that kids wouldn't
be that cruel, however, to me, it is not fair to expel or exclude the bully.

You can't blame the bully for his/her social upbringing. Kids are basically
psychopaths in such a young age - they just act according to whatever they
feel, and if they haven't been taught boundaries - well, shit. Bad
environments promote shitty attitudes and behaviour patterns, which is often
due to their parents. Rich or poor doesn't matter. Some of the worst bullies
I've been faced against came from wealthy families.

I think schools should be more focused on teaching the bullies way to cope
with things at home, instead of simply excluding them. The bullies don't
change their attitude, and someone new will take their place (I recall a
Danish study about class rooms where the bullies removed, experienced the same
amount of bulling just a month later. New bullies take other's places).

------
koenigdavidmj
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1765109>

But son, as soon as someone puts their hands on you, they've crossed a line.
_Fuck them up._ It's the only thing these vicious freaks understand. They're
wild animals. They make violence on you, you need to show them that you're the
stronger, bigger animal. When someone attacks you maliciously for no reason,
you need to impose your will on them.

Even if you lose, lose swinging. They respect it. Be a tough fight.

This "talk it out" shit doesn't work... it's been the dogma for the last 30-50
years, it assumes the nobility of human nature will win out. It doesn't. It's
nonsense. It just simply doesn't work.

------
drakeandrews
This video popped into my stream a week ago now, I must have watched it eight
or ten times now. It's certainly hit a chord with me.

I went to a secondary school (ages 10-14, first half of high school?) where
the senior teachers gave the speeches about a "Zero-Tolerance Approach to
Bullying!" and how they had only had three cases of bullying in the last few
years. They lied, cooked the figures and redefined bullying to cases of
systematic physical abuse which was rare. Because they did have a zero-
tolerance policy towards violence.

I have two sets of parents, my dad and then my mum and step-mum. Starting
secondary school someone found this out and like a lot of people suggested
here when they tried to use it to verbally abuse me I exacted violence against
him. Not wanting it to explode into something more, the school kept it very
quiet and I didn't get punished, but neither did he. Instead, if he ever told
anyone else what happened or about my parents he'd get off scott free. To his
defense no-one found out for three and a half years. Instead, I got three and
a half years of verbal abuse, the little physical things one can get away with
in corridors, my possessions taken and hidden. Some teachers tried to help but
there is only so much they can do when most of them don't care. "Sticks and
stones may break my bones but words will break them for you" is something I
remember hearing from a sympathetic teacher.

Then one day, it suddenly became common knowledge. I found myself faced with
what felt like a third of the school who wanted to see me beaten. Fortunately,
I appeared to be the only person who didn't know this was going to happen,
there were almost as many if not more people behind me (and quickly, around
me) who were adamant that I was going to be okay. The next six months were
basically hell. Then as the natural progression of things, I shifted schools
to a school that had a teacher who kept everyone in line and looked after
those who needed help, be they the abused or the abuser. I was lucky in that I
found a support network that let me rebuild myself and my self-esteem after. I
am who I am despite, not because, of what I've been through. Even if there are
still days where I have to look a little closer at the mirror to remind myself
of that.

------
falcolas
Fantastic! A great call to action.

But... how do we do it? What one person perceives as hurtful is normal
behavior to another. There simply is no quantitative scale of what is hurtful
behavior and what is not, because it differs from person to person.

To those claiming "Our kids need to fight back", how's that other's parent
going to respond when their child is beat up, for just saying the words "Pork
Chop"? Not well, I can imagine. People are given nick names all the time, by
their parents, by their peers. Because a minority of people take offense, can
we now broadly classified this "normal" behavior as bullying?

Bullying is not right, but neither is it simple to classify or prevent.

------
pkhamre
It looks like a reference to goatse.cx in the part about accepting yourself,
at 5:58.

------
kstenerud
There is only one way I've found to successfully deal with a bully: Fight back
with everything you've got, and don't be fair about it.

I got a LOT of flack from teachers who would give me the usual "solve problems
without violence" bullshit, but here's the thing: In every school I went to
(we moved around a lot), I got picked on by the local bullies one time, and
ONLY one time. Sure, I got the shit kicked out of me a few times, but you
don't actually need to win the fight. Once they realize that you won't just
passively take it, they leave you alone. You will, however, have to deal with
ignorant teachers.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Curiously, that's more-less exactly how Ender from Orson Scott Card's "Ender
Game" approached the topic.

~~~
kstenerud
Yes, I felt pleased and vindicated when I read that book years later. But he
didn't actually have to go _that_ far. You only need to cause enough pain to
your opponent that they start to think twice.

~~~
TeMPOraL
True. It's even noted in the book, but the protagonist wanted to be
absolutely, positively sure that no one - neither the current bully nor any
other future bully - will try to hurt him again. He pushed things to the hard
limit in pretty much everything he did. We don't have to - we shouldn't - go
that far.

------
Millennium
This is why we need to stop teaching kids that it is wrong to defend
themselves.

------
oulipo
This is Shaun Koyczan, one of my favorite slam poet (he's from Canada)

------
Urgo
Not going to lie, this made me cry. Thanks for posting this. I'm sharing it
with all my social circles now. Everyone needs to see this.

Also its been posted already but direct YouTube link to this is:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltun92DfnPY>

------
Gotttzsche
uh, all im seeing is a quote about some piece and it fades out until i move
the mouse again...??

~~~
CaptainDecisive
Yeah, same for me with Chrome. Irritating, isn't it. The site seems poorly
designed. I can see a Flashblock icon in the top left so I know what's broken,
but I can't click on the Flashblock icon to enable the content, as it won't
take focus. Despite being interested in the topic I didn't dig deeper, so they
lose a reader.

------
rajatarora
Very impressive animation and the way the youtube video is embedded to the
site.

~~~
InclinedPlane
This is the youtube URL, btw: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltun92DfnPY>

------
Ixiaus
I have plugins in my browser disabled and I'm unable to click the media "area"
at all (it's hiding behind something??). Just FYI.

------
lelele
Then bully the bullies to make them stop. Otherwise, you are kidding
yourselves.

------
jtheory
Wow, that made me cry.

------
shreeshga
school rankings should include "bullying" score.

------
martinced
I think it's very finely done. I'm impressed by the quality of that animation
and the voice is both great and touching in its tone.

I'd say part of the solution is explained in the animation itself: you don't
have to _feel_ this way if you're getting bullied.

Parents have a role to play. My parents always told me to not pay attention (I
was the smallest kids in my class from 4 years old to 15 years old or so, so
people would tease me all the time). And I didn't pay attention.

Then he talks in the animation about bearded girls: parents have to intervene
here. I was a boy but when I started having a mustache, which looked silly in
retrospect on the tiniest kid in the class, they offered me an electric razor.
I hated that day the day it happened. But then I realized I had to shave.

Same for bearded girls: parents have to take her to do laser elimination of
the beard. Common.

If parents have a fat kid, they should confiscate coke and sodas and force the
kid to go exercice a bit. A daily run. Something. It was tennis and bycicling
for me (not that I've ever been fat).

Sure bullying is lame. But acting like a victim is not ok.

I agree that fighting back is not always easy, but it's not always mandatory
to physically fight back either. As someone else already commented here: if
they insult you, you can fight back verbally (being smart makes it all too
easy to be really mean in retaliation ; )

"Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent".

We're all past the age of getting bullied and we can understand that nobody
can make us feel inferior without our consent. Now we have to remember to
raise our kids properly, so that they never become victims.

~~~
yesbabyyes
No. I'm sure your intentions are fine, but this is not good advice.

We cannot keep perpetuating this idea that you have to fit in. That right
there is one of the most harmful memes in our Western society today.

If a kid wants to use the razor to shave, that's fine. If a kid has a problem
with obesity, yes, support that kid and help that kid find a better, healthier
path.

But not in order to avoid oppression. Because it's better for his or her
health. For her, or his, self esteem.

A person close to me was severely bullied when she moved to a new school. She
was the only person with dark skin in a school of white Northern Europeans, at
a time when there were racists in parliament and a serial killer was murdering
persons of color.

What do you figure she would do to fit in?

It's the bullies that has to change. The silent bystanders. Us. We must say
"Wow, you have beautiful facial hair". We must embrace diversity.

Not eradicate it.

------
kunil
Kids are mean, grow up.

~~~
InclinedPlane
"Stop being raped." "Stop getting mugged." "Stop being stabbed." "Stop being
murdered."

~~~
rplnt
To be fair, he didn't say stop being bullied. He said we, adults, should get
over it - kids are and will be bullied. So while I don't agree with him
completely, your comments are way off topic.

~~~
InclinedPlane
Oh, riiight. Ok, then. "Stop caring about people getting raped." "Stop caring
about people getting murdered." People do bad things. Get over it.

