
Ask HN: Could hackers prevent WW3? - alando46
Is it at all feasible that hacker collectives &#x2F; independent agents might be able to stop world powers intent on violence from destroying each other?
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afarrell
Technical Solutions To Social Problems are possible, but they require an
appreciation for the complexity of those social problems and the difficulty of
solving them.

If you're serious about this, I would start with
[https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/political-
science/17-42-causes-a...](https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/political-
science/17-42-causes-and-prevention-of-war-spring-2009/)

The study of the first world war is probably most instructive and there is a
lot of content out there on the History. As you dig into this material, keep
in mind that history is not just the study of the past but the study of the
stories we tell ourselves about the past. Dig into the material OCW class or
get started on youtube:

\-
[https://www.youtube.com/user/TheGreatWar](https://www.youtube.com/user/TheGreatWar)

\-
[https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL931Bkj5KLMvaoUfenv1G...](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL931Bkj5KLMvaoUfenv1G12FfZNpPsm-L)

\-
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cd2ch4XV84s&t=358s&list=PLi5...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cd2ch4XV84s&t=358s&list=PLi53uigc9uHqUsUypJ73HV7YkFWE8TKfw&index=2)

\- [https://www.amazon.com/The-Guns-of-
August/dp/B004UEKON0](https://www.amazon.com/The-Guns-of-August/dp/B004UEKON0)

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veddox
Given a hacker collective of sufficient size, know-how, resources and time,
perhaps. (Even though they might end up destroying half of civilization
themselves in the process...)

Seriously, no. Aside from the fact that war is in essence a social problem
that cannot solely be solved by technical means (see afarrell's earlier post),
cyber warfare is an incredibly advanced area of conflict. What makes it so
complex is not only the skill needed for the creation of the utilized malware
itself, but also all the military intelligence that is needed to sabotage
specific physical targets. (I am presuming here that anybody wanting to stop
WW3 would have to knock out command posts, communication lines, missile
launchers and other weapon systems, etc.)

The classic example is, of course, Stuxnet, the first "supervirus" ever found.
Discovered in 2010, it was aimed at the Iranian nuclear enrichment facility in
Natanz. The Symantec people who analysed it estimate that development time
would have been approx. half a year and would have required a full mockup of
the Natanz target for testing purposes. Obviously, Iran doesn't make the
design plans of their nuclear facilities public, so extensive espionage work
must have been carried out beforehand. On a side note, Stuxnet also exploited
four separate Windows Zero-Days. (For more details, see the official report at
[http://www.symantec.com/content/en/us/enterprise/media/secur...](http://www.symantec.com/content/en/us/enterprise/media/security_response/whitepapers/w32_stuxnet_dossier.pdf))

My point is: attacking physical targets with computer-based attacks requires a
lot of forethought, know-how and intelligence - on a scale that only large
nation states are able to furnish. And don't forget, to prevent WW3, it isn't
enough to just take down a few targets. You need to make sure that every last
one of those nuclear subs keeps its missiles in check...

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AnimalMuppet
No.

Say the US wants to attack North Korea. The US military's command and control
is designed to withstand hacking from major state actors - China and Russia.
So are individual weapon systems. A "hacker collective" isn't going to make
much headway against that, unless they are better than Russia and China's
state hackers, or unless the US military is woefully unprepared for a cyber
attack from a prepared state actor.

~~~
NotSammyHagar
I know they are designed to resist hacking but in practice I bet its possible.
We don't know what kinds of counter measures the russians or chinese or even
north koreans have figured out over 50 years. There are the recent articles
about how we subverted n.k. missile launches, someone could do the same to us.

Based on the long history in the cold war of things like the moon looking like
a big missile launches and both sides believeing the other side might try a
pre-emptive strike, I think its far more likely for hacking and related
confusion to cause a war.

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sidcool
I feel it opposite. Hackers might end up starting WW3.

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whiskers08xmt
I don't think hackers outside the establishment have that kind of power, but
cybersecurity is the frontline between super-powers in the 21st century. I
wouldn't be surprised if we have a kind of Stanislav Petrov[0] figure, who'll
refuse to press the button in a first strike cyber attack.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov)

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LostWanderer
Maybe not but pockets of hackers can be there to prevent the damage from
spreading. Here is my take on what a post-nuclear war hacker may look like.
Solar energy may not be available so charging points have to be something like
a bicycle modifiable to a tent(Maybe mod the tyres into wind energy devices
and a fan). More single board computers with outernet(?) plugged in. It will
be interesting to see how peer to peer networks

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id122015
actually yes, they could remove a tyrant or two by using gamification.

But I cant say much about oligarchies where power is owned by a group.

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Georgantas
They could probably start a war...

