
Did the Vikings use crystal ‘sunstones’ to discover America? - eternalban
https://theconversation.com/did-the-vikings-use-crystal-sunstones-to-discover-america-53836
======
dalke
"But without magnetic compasses, like all ancient sailors they would have
struggled to find their way once the clouds came over."

"Struggled", certainly, but Polynesian sailors crossed the Pacific without a
compass or sunstone. Quoting
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polynesian_navigation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polynesian_navigation)
:

> Polynesian navigators memorize important facts: the motion of specific
> stars, so where they would rise and set on the horizon of the ocean; weather
> and the seasons of travel; wildlife species (which gather at particular
> positions); the direction, size, and speed of ocean waves; colors of the sea
> and sky, especially how clouds would cluster at the locations of some
> islands; and angles for approaching harbours.

Quoting from
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mau_Piailug](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mau_Piailug)
concerning the master navigator Mau Piailug:

> Prudent navigation relies on no single technique, but instead synthesizes
> position from multiple inputs. Underway, this constant synthesis makes it
> easy to spot the navigator—he's the one with red eyes from sleep
> deprivation.

I see no reason why the Norse wouldn't have had some of the similar navigation
skills.

That doesn't mean they couldn't have used a sunstone, but rather that it's not
unreasonable to believe that they could have navigated with only 'landmarks,
birds and whales, and little else'.

~~~
dsp1234
_but Polynesian sailors crossed the Pacific without a compass or sunstone._

I wonder if the types of ocean weather present in the Polynesian triangle vs
the viking routes would have made it easier or harder to navigate without
additional aids.

~~~
AReallyGoodName
Well, weather aside, the keeled Polynesian sailboats with tringular sails are
basically the modern sailboat standard with excellent into the wind
performance. Longboats had no keel and were not nearly as advanced.

~~~
qw
Viking boats had keel. Perhaps you are thinking of a specific shape or
something?

------
will_walker
I recently started designing and making jewelry. I'm particularly fascinated
by Iolite.
[Iolite]("[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordierite"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordierite"))
is commonly referred to as "water sapphire" or "viking's compass". This is
because it changes in tone depending on it's angle to the sun. Historically it
would have been useful because the effect works regardless of cloud cover and
even when the sun is below the horizon. I'm not sure if the nickname is a
historic remainder or attached during modernity (the jewelry industry is both
ancient and opaque) but the effect is real, and could potentially be of
concrete utility during navigation.

~~~
GeorgeRichard
"... it changes in tone depending on it's angle to the sun ... the effect
works ... even when the sun is below the horizon."

This sounds like magic. Have you observed this effect yourself and do you have
an explanation for it or a reference to one?

~~~
analog31
I'll have to check it out, next chance I get, with a polarizer. One thing that
could be exploited is that the sunlight scattered by the ionosphere (why the
sky is blue) is polarized, so the polarization axis could be the clue.

~~~
dalke
According to your link, that's the case. It only works when the sun is just
below the horizon so there is still scattered light in the sky.

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rusanu
\- Icelandic rocks could have steered Vikings (2011) [0] \- 'Viking sunstone'
found in shipwreck (2013) [1] \- Crystals 'helped Viking sailors' (2007)

[0] [http://www.bbc.com/news/science-
environment-15523520](http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-15523520)
[1] [http://www.bbc.com/news/world-
europe-21693140](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-21693140) [2]
[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6338535.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6338535.stm)

~~~
halviti
They were described reasonably well in multiple sagas, listed on inventory
sheets, and they actually found one in a shipwreck.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunstone_(medieval)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunstone_\(medieval\))

IMHO, I think is sufficient evidence to say that it is reasonably likely they
were using these.

~~~
Luc
I'm sure people have found all kinds of stuff described reasonable well in
myths. Isn't there books written about UFO sightings in the bible?

Churches and monasteries had them in their inventories, but how does that
prove they were used for navigation? It would be like churches keeping
sextants under the altar. It doesn't make sense.

The shipwreck that contained the calcite was found far away in the Channel and
dated _500_ years after the vikings. And there's no record of it in any
navigation books of the time.

It's myths and internet memes, being propagated over and over again. I don't
doubt it'll be on HN again 3 months hence.

~~~
empath75
I think there's a different level of skepticism needed for ufos and fairly
simple piece of technology.

While I don't think the case has been proved its certainly one of those things
where there's a reasonable chance of it being true.

~~~
Luc
Nah, it doesn't pass the sniff test once you start looking at the details. I
don't have time now, but you could look in the archives of NavList at fer3.com
for more info.

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kayman
I know tv is not a source of truth, but an interesting side note, in the
Netflix series, Vikings, they used a sunstone.

~~~
toomanybeersies
Getting slightly off topic, but Vikings is a History channel production, not a
Netflix show.

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dang
Url changed from [http://www.universal-sci.com/headlines/2016/2/9/did-the-
viki...](http://www.universal-sci.com/headlines/2016/2/9/did-the-vikings-use-
crystal-sunstones-to-discover-america), which points to this.

