
Extrinsic and intrinsic motivation - aytekin
https://medium.com/swlh/theres-no-such-thing-as-motivation-e02edd7de30
======
ak39
I agree with this. I’ve spent just as much time researching productivity as
being productive some times. And I agree, we don’t fail on the motivation part
but on inability to create environments, habits and schedules that allow for
distraction-free productivity. But I always failed to maintain longer than a
week’s worth of concentrated productive habit. Why? I have a theory: you can’t
maintain rigid schedules and habits if you have family too.

No chance of choosing focus areas and ignoring a sick child and sleepless
nights, family emergencies and soul-sapping homework assistance.

Family is my productivity enemy. But I love my family so I don’t sweat lack of
productivity that much. Anymore.

But yeah, motivation is not the answer. Fully agreed.

~~~
coldtea
> _Why? I have a theory: you can’t maintain rigid schedules and habits if you
> have family too._

Haven't millions of people -- and lots of famous productive writers, and such,
done exactly that?

~~~
socceroos
And to varying degrees the detriment of their family.

------
grecht
The title's a bit clickbaity. "No such thing as motivation", and he goes on to
explain two different types of motivation and sums it up with "do x and y and
your motivation will grow".

Also, I'm missing a golden thread in this post. It reads like a few half-baked
thoughts to promote his company.

I do agree with his recap though.

~~~
imron
Exactly! He's absolutely spot on that habits are better than motivation for
getting things done, but it's bizarre to have a title claiming there's no such
thing as motivation, and then have several sections in the article talking
about and defining what motivation is.

~~~
PakG1
It's not bizarre. Unfortunately, clickbait is good for business.

------
cirgue
Motivation is absolutely a skill that can be mastered. Being motivated to get
up and run at 6:00 am is not telling yourself that you have to, it’s learning
how to _want to do it_. Same thing with anything else. You have to learn how
to connect the desire for some end state (getting the project completed,
getting a faster mile time, etc) with the present. Habits are great, but
excercising the capacity to want to make shit happen outside of your normal
routine is also a skill worth developing.

~~~
matwood
I think linking it to _wanting_ can be problematic when people are trying to
start. I get up every single day at 6am and go straight to the gym. To say I
want to do this makes it sound like I have some insight, I'm crazy or I'm a
'morning' person. None of those are true. The alarm goes off, and I get up.
There is no want or motivation in that moment, it is only discipline.

I do it because working out every day improves my physical and mental health.
My cognition is better. Starting each day off doing something I don't really
want to do (getting up early), sets the tone of the day to one of getting the
things done that need to get done.

> You have to learn how to connect the desire for some end state (getting the
> project completed, getting a faster mile time, etc) with the present.

IME, this is useful when deciding you want to make a change, but not something
that is front and center when the alarm goes off early in the morning ;)

------
j45
Building discipline is a master, root skill to learn that unlocks everything
else.

Breaking down any task into small steps has always helped me get going on
things that seem to be a little tough to start. This has been way more
productive than telling myself to do something for just 5 minutes, and often
see myself continue.

Discipline is learning to do what needs to be done regardless of how we feel.
This creates more results than chasing motivation.

Anything we perceive we are motivated or passionate about always has things we
don't want to do attached to it.

If anything, motivation might be like taking a shower every day. Forget to
shower and any effect quickly dissipates. Motivation is finite like our
attention and willpower.

~~~
matwood
> Discipline is learning to do what needs to be done regardless of how we
> feel. This creates more results than chasing motivation.

This 100x. Discipline is the goal. To paraphrase Jocko Wilink's podcast and
book, "discipline equals freedom". Want to get up early, set an alarm and get
up. Want to get in shape, go to the gym starting right now.

When I recognize I'm procrastinating on something that needs to get done, I
immediately attack it and get it done.

~~~
j45
"Discipline is freedom" is so true. Gotta play the game by the rules till we
can set our own.

It's strange though, we are raised to think discipline is bad, but everyone
with financial, physical, dietary, academic, professional discipline often
ends up being successful in many cases.

------
fnordsensei
"Fuck motivation. it’s a fickle and and unreliable little dickfuck and isn’t
worth your time.

"Better to cultivate discipline than to rely on motivation. force yourself to
do things. force yourself to get up out of bed and practice. Force yourself to
work. Motivation is fleeting and it’s easy to rely on because it requires no
concentrated effort to get. Motivation comes to you, and you don’t have to
chase after it."

"Discipline is reliable, motivation is fleeting. The question isn’t how to
keep yourself motivated. It’s how to train yourself to work without it."

—Theangryviolinist (probably)

------
sixhobbits
I read Drive by Daniel Pink (referenced in the article) and Punished by
Rewards by Alfie Kohn. They both make very interesting cases again current
thoughts and practices surrounding motivation, especially regarding how
rewards (in any form) often have the exact opposite effect of their intention.

I wrote some more about this recently here [0]

[0] [https://www.codementor.io/garethdwyer/enter-the-zone-
fight-i...](https://www.codementor.io/garethdwyer/enter-the-zone-fight-
imposter-syndrome-and-unlock-intrinsic-motivation-kjpbpe5a5)

------
purplezooey
This don't make no sense. You still got to be motivated to do the routine that
has supposedly removed motivation.

~~~
coldtea
If you constraint motivation to mean "absolutely anything that makes you do
something" then yes, it doesn't make sense. You still need to convince
yourself to send a signal from your brain to do something, and one can say
that that requires "motivation" too.

But that's not how most people use the term motivation, or whine about "not
having motivation" mean.

The whole point of the distinction in the post is between waiting to feel
motivated (as in "to positively look forward/like/inspired to do the thing")
vs just doing it, not giving a shit for how you feel.

As a crude example: a writer could wait until they feel "motivated" to sit
down and write. Another could just set a schedule that has him sitting down
every weekday 9-5, and writing something, anything, whether they feel
motivated or not.

The second we usually don't call "motivation", just discipline.

------
MichaelBosworth
If you're doing something shitty with your life, this kind of thinking is a
good way to continue doing it well.

I doubt that's a good thing, net, unless you really truly don't have any
options.

------
dyarosla
Just want to point out that there is research that suggests there’s no clear-
cut extrinsic/intrinsic designation and that motivation generally lies on a
spectrum between these two types (Ryan and Deci). Moreover, finding ways to
move yourself along the spectrum towards the intrinsic end allows for more
effective output.

------
koolhead17
Reminds me of Scott Adams, System vs Passion.

------
your-nanny
all the clickbait titles on medium. I've mostly stopped bothering to read them

------
therisingegg
I work all hours for a startup, and I enjoy my work, but when my boss gives us
corporate "110%" talk, I want to resign

