
Early electric fans - OJFord
https://earlyfans.blogspot.com/2011/10/robbins-myers-list-1404-desk-fans-1911.html
======
ChuckMcM
I love this: " _My interests are with original and unrestored desk fans made
prior to 1916._ "

Since they were invented in 1885 that is basically a 30 year window for a
fairly expensive consumer good that probably sold in the neighborhood of a few
thousand units.

There is something wonderful about diving deeply into a particular kind of
thing from a particular time. My Dad has a cap gun collection with a similar
narrow window, he even has a book which identifies various cap guns, their
makers, their relative rarity etc. Why cap guns? Who knows. He has it
significantly easier though since they were stamped out in the hundreds of
thousands, maybe millions, during a similar period and were made so that kids
could get them (ie very inexpensively).

It is a level of curiosity and dedication I can really respect.

~~~
scottlocklin
It's a fairly common interest believe it or not; I was very interested in this
era of fans while I was in grad school. In fact I was interested in an even
more specific variety of pancake motor 6 bladed fan that pretty much every
other fan-fan also wants. Since they're so bloody expensive I ended up
collecting radios from the 1920s instead, which kind of scratches the same
itch.

[https://antiquefanparts.com/1893-meston-series-aa-12-desk-
fa...](https://antiquefanparts.com/1893-meston-series-aa-12-desk-fan/)

[https://antiquefanparts.com/circa-1888-edison-x-motor-
fan/](https://antiquefanparts.com/circa-1888-edison-x-motor-fan/)

[https://antiquefanparts.com/1890-riker-electric-motor-
compan...](https://antiquefanparts.com/1890-riker-electric-motor-company-
bipolar-fan/)

[https://antiquefanparts.com/circa-1894-edison-sixth-hp-
slow-...](https://antiquefanparts.com/circa-1894-edison-sixth-hp-slow-motor/)

[https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/antique-1901-general-...](https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/antique-1901-general-
electric-ge-1813317031)

My grail fan:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZzkUC0TAhg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZzkUC0TAhg)
[http://www.hudsonscustommachining.com/images/1904emerson/lar...](http://www.hudsonscustommachining.com/images/1904emerson/large/IMG_1345.jpg)

They cost so bloody much, it's probably easier to just build a reproduction.

~~~
mattkrause
The cheapest one is $20,000!

~~~
scottlocklin
I thought they were too much when I was in grad school in the 90s and you
could find them on ebay for $500.... $500 for a goddamned fan! Well, it's not
like they made more of them since then, and many have been parted out or
thrown away.

Those pancake fans are really cool!

~~~
mattkrause
Oh, no argument that they look cool. I was just expecting the price to be a
lot lower!

Does anyone make good-looking modern reproductions?

~~~
scottlocklin
Nope. But for $20k you could probably pay a skilled machinist to make you a
couple of them.

------
lqet
> A sheet brass disk in front of the fan was acted upon by the air from the
> fan causing the fan to oscillate back and forth

Is this an accurate description? Here is such a fan in action:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm7DFuGaujg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm7DFuGaujg)

It seems to work because the brass disk is blocking the air stream on one
side, so the other side of the fan acts as a jet engine to rotate it, which is
actually really clever.

~~~
jetrink
Wow, that is more violent than I expected!

I think both effects are at work. Thought experiment/hypothesis: If you
detached the plate and merely held it in front of the fan blades, I think the
fan would still rotate due to the decreased airflow on one side of the fan,
but it would rotate less quickly since the force that moving air is applying
to the plate would no longer be acting on the fan.

~~~
lqet
Yup, I posted the original comment to quickly, the airflow indeed also pushes
the brass disk forward, thus rotating the fan! An extremely clever solution
that seems to be very easy and cheap to manufacture.

~~~
perilunar
> the airflow indeed also pushes the brass disk forward

The force on the disk is caused by an opposite force on the fan blades,
cancelling them out (since they are connected by the frame and the bearings),
so it cannot cause the fan to rotate.

The rotation is due simply to unbalanced thrust from the fan. The unimpeded
side produces more thrust than the impeded side, so the fan turns to that
side.

------
rrauenza
If you're a fan of fans and of Technology Connections, there is an episode
where he talks about older fans and why high is the first setting:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ3GW7lVBWY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ3GW7lVBWY)

~~~
Animats
Yes, a long discussion of the starting problems of electric motors. That was
Tesla's real contribution to motor design - he came up with effective ways to
get AC motors started under load.

------
seesawtron
Here's an antique non-electric fan from the East India Company that still
works:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/b41rm...](https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/b41rm9/table_fan_of_1845_used_by_east_india_company/)

------
tompic823
It's fascinating that desk fans have had such a consistent design for over 100
years. Most surprising to me is that they've been able to oscillate for that
long, too (since 1904!):

> Direct current desk fans were added in 1899. After acquiring a patent from
> Charles Eck for an oscillating fan mechanism, R&M put into production their
> unique DC "lollipop" oscillator in 1904, followed a few years later by an AC
> version. A sheet brass disk in front of the fan was acted upon by the air
> from the fan causing the fan to oscillate back and forth. Stops on the base
> of the fan were contacted by a pin at the bottom of the lollipop shaft to
> shift the disc to the other side, resulting in the fan oscillating to the
> other side.

------
oldlinux
These fans were certainly a luxury item for the time. The average price listed
there was about $30. Adjusting for inflation, that's the equivalent of about
$750 today
([https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=inflation+since+1911+f...](https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=inflation+since+1911+for+%2430+USD)).

Put another way, it was a few weeks worth of the average salary for a railway
or steel worker of the era ([https://ahundredyearsago.com/2012/09/17/average-
salaries-191...](https://ahundredyearsago.com/2012/09/17/average-
salaries-1912-and-2012/)).

~~~
Cthulhu_
Even Dyson's overpriced fans aren't THAT expensive nowadays.

That said, I do think there is a market for quality products in a 10-20x price
range, products built to last instead of built to be cheap and good enough for
a couple years.

------
Shivetya
Oh wow, I have a six blade Emerson that works except for the oscillator[0].
Absolutely quiet in operation and moves a lot of air. Very heavy and based on
the wire guard not super safe around many children, well at least not the ones
who want to see what it will chop.

In my case I chose it for the blade count and the old ship propeller vibe.
There is a shop here in Georgia which does do repair work on fans and I hope
to get this one up there one day.[1]

You can find a good number of fans, restored and otherwise, on ebay. As with
with any ebay suggestion it is best to build up a history to understand
pricing.

[0] [https://i.imgur.com/Z1VglDL.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Z1VglDL.jpg)

[1] [http://electrorestore.com/vintage-antique-fans-repair-
servic...](http://electrorestore.com/vintage-antique-fans-repair-service.php)

------
joncrane
Based on the scanned catalog page from 1911 and an inflation calculator, it
looks like those fans set you back anywhere from the equivalent of $800-1000
in today's money. Is my math correct?

~~~
MrRadar
Not too surprising. Keep in mind that at the time electricity was a luxury and
there were very few home appliances that made use of it. The radio, the first
piece of electronics more complex than a simple motor or heater that you might
find in the "average" home, wouldn't come into widespread use for another
decade.

~~~
cat199
agree - the person who had this would be somewhat like the modern equivalent
of a non-technical person with a fully IoT'ed smarthome running custom
controllers and audiophile quality home theater room 15 years ago.. wealthy,
and willing to spend to have the latest novelty

------
freefal
Wow, the combination of those heavy metal blades and the sparsely placed
safety bars definitely doesn't look finger friendly!

~~~
kevin_thibedeau
The kids were already electrocuted by the Edison sockets.

~~~
C1sc0cat
The early home installations for electric power where mindbogglingly unsafe.

------
m4rtink
Last year we rode a local train in rural Kyushu on Hisatsu Line and while not
air conditioned, they had these nice mechanical "orbital" fans inside:

[https://imgur.com/a/gjlh0Gs](https://imgur.com/a/gjlh0Gs)

------
fortran77
It's amazing anyone from this era had all 10 fingers.

~~~
blacksmith_tb
I grew up in the early 70s with one of these in my bedroom, probably from the
40s or 50s but still going strong. I never stuck my fingers into the blades,
but I did like to toss crayons in and watch the pieces fly...

~~~
Scoundreller
I took some 120mm fans out of some old servers my brother brought home from
his tobacco factory co-op job.

I’d wire them to weird voltages (e.g. 12V and -5V, or +5 and -5), cover my
eyes with a jewel case and drop small screws in them to hear where it bounced
around incredibly fast...

------
goldenkey
Would the blades being heavier/metal make these fans less efficient?

~~~
perilunar
No. Heavier blades would make them accelerate slower, but once up to speed the
weight would make no difference.

Thin blades can be less aerodynamically efficient than thicker ones, but
plastic fans blades are not very efficient anyway.

The biggest disadvantages of metal blades are cost and safety.

------
wwright
Oh, I thought this was going to be about Tesla and Edison.

~~~
Scoundreller
There’s probably a component of that. Probably some where DC and others AC at
varying frequencies of input.

