
Vanlife: Build your own van to live on the road - xbeta
https://divineontheroad.com/build-a-van/
======
josefresco
So you're in your van, parked at the beach, or a beautiful park and you gotta
poop - what now? Pack up your van and find a public restroom? Poop in some
sort of composting toilet that you then lug around with you and dump ...where
exactly? Drive to that gym you bought a membership to ... how close is it to
the beach again and how badly do you need to poop?

Yesterday's article on tiny homes, and this one make me laugh because we all
get romanced by hipster vans and nifty solar panels but skip right over
essential things like ... going to the bathroom! The tiny home article said
(and I'm paraphrasing here) you can buy a home, pull it up to a spot of land
and *just hook up the utilities!" \- it's not that simple. Septic and water
are not electrical plugs - hell even electrical is not as simple unless you're
in an RV park.

Edit: Just to be clear, I spend a good deal of time traveling myself. I now
tow a 26 foot travel trailer (with kitchen and full bathroom) but before that
towed a small utility trailer that I converted to a travel trailer for my kids
and my office. We stay at campgrounds with septic hookups and showers (which I
prefer over my trailer shower). Whenever we "dry camp" we then have to find a
place to dump our septic, grey water etc. it's a real pain (Google "honey
wagon" for a fun look at a "good" option for handling your own waste).
Typically this is done at a campground (for a small fee), but I'm not sure how
it would work for someone living in their van ("can I dump a bucket full of
piss and poo?").

~~~
hbosch
I’d like to introduce to the invention of marine toilets. They are small,
portable, self-contained flushing toilets with a sealed waste chamber that is
detachable and can be emptied (ideally into a permanent toilet). My in-laws
have one on their boat that stores enough water for 27 “flushes” and it works
great. 27 flushes is easily a weekend of waste management for a couple or
small family, or could last a single person a week perhaps.

This is the toilet in question: [https://www.westmarine.com/buy/thetford--
porta-potti-135-por...](https://www.westmarine.com/buy/thetford--porta-
potti-135-portable-marine-head--17959826?recordNum=1)

~~~
josefresco
Oh look, a glorified bucket! Cool cool. Hey I had one of these, I also had a
bucket with a toilet seat which is essentially the same thing. My point
remains; dealing with your waste if you're living in a van, or dry camping is
a giant pain.

I also live on the coast, and know many fishermen/lobstermen etc. - do you
know where they shit? Not in a "marine toilet" Hang your ass over the edge of
the boat and be ready for a round of jokes and pranks by your shipmates. Why?
Because dumping your shitter is a giant pain (I feel like a broken record)

So something that's an afterthought in a real home, becomes a weekly, or every
other day chore of finding a public toilet, removing your toilet (full of shit
and piss) from your van, then dumping shit in said toilet without spilling
(not easy) all the while avoiding police/public works employees who would
rather you not dump your shit into their facilities. Sounds fun.

~~~
hbosch
I think you're being intentionally dismissive at the cost of realizing that
basic, essential waste management (at a small scale) is more or less a
solvable problem for people who want to live nomadic lifestyles. Is it a
tedious chore from time to time? Sure. Is a marine toilet the same as a open-
top bucket full of shit? No (and something tells me you do, in fact, know this
to be true).

Here's the reality. People choose, sometimes, to live aboard a moving vessel -
either by land or by sea. These people take an audit of the pros and the cons,
and they decide that dumping out a compost toilet once a day (if that) while
the coffee is brewing is worth the benefit of living in nature or at a low
cost, or whatever their bigger rationale is.

What you are saying is basically: "Oh BROTHER! You thought you'd like to have
a dog? Good choice, nimwit, bet you never considered they have to EAT and POOP
and be TRAINED." The fact is that most dog owners enjoy the companionship so
much that they actually have no problem taking on these chores, because the
positive outweighs the negative. Of course no one enjoys picking up dog shit,
but it's a price to pay and it has to be done, so most of the time good people
who like dogs do it.

------
catherd
As a counterpoint to this, which I find almost offensively fixated on the
parts of it that post well on social media, you really can have a good time
doing this without spending months and 10's of thousands of dollars getting
ready. (OK, so there are certain forces involved if you want to support a
blog, as this person is doing...)

\- Buy an older van (or in my case a crew cab pickup with a camper shell).

\- Add some storage space and a bed. This can be as simple as a few plastic
storage containers and a foam mattress.

\- Add an inverter, a marine battery, and if you really want to get fancy a
relay to disconnect it from the main system when the vehicle isn't running. No
solar panels needed, just let the alternator charge it.

That's it. Spend the rest of the time figuring out how to live with your self
without social media.

There are a lot of things you can do to simplify your life, if you don't have
to bring your first world standards with you: \- Don't use any electronics
that need constant power. Don't buy stuff that needs to be refrigerated, but
do get fresh fruit and vegetables if you can eat them within a few days of
buying.

\- Piss in a bottle and figure out how to be near enough to either a bathroom
or real wilderness for other situations. It's not that hard with a little
planning.

\- Shower less often, mostly in campgrounds. You will stink more, but get over
yourself.

\- Bring a lot of books/ebooks or something interesting to study.

\- Walmart parking lots are great places to park and sleep if you are en-route
somewhere and just need some rest. They usually allow overnight parking and
won't bother you (local ordinances can sometimes cause exceptions).

\- Learn how to brush your teeth and wash dishes without using lots of soap
and water. You can actually clean and rinse a dirty pan with about a cup of
water and a tiny drop of soap.

The western US is great for this since huge areas of the desert states are
easy to move around in without much planning or permits.

Don't spend lots of time driving. Get somewhere and actually experience it.
Don't plan too hard. Find some stuff you think would be interesting, get to
good areas, then relax and explore. Schedules are only opportunities for
disappointment and stress. Try spending a whole week without even taking
pictures. Learn what is fun for you, not what you think makes your life look
interesting.

~~~
scarecrowbob
I agree with you.

I got a tacoma with a tall camper shell.

I tossed a piece of foam in the back, tacked some fabric for decoration, added
a hanging lamp, and that's it. I have a pelican case I keep my laptop and some
stuff in, but the rest of my crap stays in plastic tubs.

I don't really want to spend time tricking it out, because the point is that I
want to be out doing stuff, not fabricating a home.

I've camped out about 10 days so far this year and plan to increase that to
100% by the end of the year.

I just do it because all I want to do at this stage in life is play music and
rock climb. I couldn't see doing that if I was trying to go into an upswing on
my profession or build a relationship.

The point is to have a place to crash so I can stay on the road with less
hassle... it's much nicer to not have to drive home after a gig or to wake up
and go climb without a commute or a campsite to worry about.

I also know a lot of folks living in RVs, and I don't think that the sprinter
van looks like an improvement over a commercially produced motorhome/ 5th
wheel/ trailer.

~~~
bungie4
I'll be traveling from Ontario to Yosemite and back this summer in my Tacoma.
I have exactly the same setup. It works.

I've been deeply interested in going nomadic full time for more than a decade,
despite it only recently becoming a thing. Family, job obligations combined
with a relatively low cost arrangement for living expenses finds me plunked
down firmly.

If my wife and I split, god forbid, you'll find me on the road.

PS: Their are no construction standards for trailers/rv's. Their are built as
cheaply as possible. I'd much rather do the van thing if only for the
structural integrity.

~~~
timmaah
> Their are no construction standards for trailers/rv's. Their are built as
> cheaply as possible.

[https://www.rvia.org/standards-regulations](https://www.rvia.org/standards-
regulations)

If you look you can find RV's that are built to last. The vast majority are
built as cheaply as possible though.

~~~
bungie4
Membership is voluntary.

------
notatoad
I understand that people enjoy the hashtag-vanlife thing, but if it's
something you're considering please remember that it doesn't make you special.
Too many people seem to think that #vanlife is somehow different from camping,
and an excuse to ignore all the rules that apply to normal campers.

Normal people camp in a campground or designated wilderness camping area,
where there are adequate facilities to camp in a hygenic way, and you pay for
a permit to get a spot for yourself for a night, and the campground is limited
to the number of spaces that the area can support. Camping in a city park,
street, or public day-use area is selfishly monopolizing the resources of that
area for yourself, when they were designed for the use of people other than
just yourself. Homeless people can get a pass on selfishly taking over public
space for themselves because they need the charity, but when tech bros who
want to live the #vanlife do it they're just being assholes.

~~~
RobertRoberts
While I agree that people who "can" own/live in a house are making a choice to
live in a van can "take up space", I think the amount of space used up by
these people in nearly infinitesimal compared to the amount of space
available.

So, I don't think this is really much of an argument against this life style.
Also, they won't do this forever, long term it's much more stressful than
people realize. Therefore making the amount of space/resources used entirely a
non-issue.

~~~
notatoad
It's not the space they take up, it's the fact that they're living in a way
that the place they're living in wasn't designed for. My town has a parking
lot where the #vanlife people park, and it smells like piss all summer because
it's a parking lot, not a campground, and there's no bathrooms there. The
actual campgrounds in the area fill up quickly, and people reserve in advance.
The climbing routes, hiking trails, and other recreation facilities exist
roughly in proportion to the available campsites. The #vanlife people are
cheating the system by illegally camping, and using resources that aren't
available. If the resources were available, permits would be approved for new
campgrounds or residential development.

Individuals don't do #vanlife long term, but there's enough of them that
there's a consistent rolling population and the space and resources they use
are roughly constant.

~~~
RobertRoberts
You are sorting of making my argument for me. You are pointing out one single
place in the entire world, and it happens to be near you. While this is
unfortunate, it seems like a simple solution is to petition the local
government for either porta-potties or enforcement of the law.

If the parking lot is not near you, not sure why you would care at all... If
it's that bad, why would these people #vanlife there? It sounds gross.

~~~
sooheon
For all we know they do that as well. This is a more general petition to the
world at large not to behave like they're entitled to more just because
#vanlife.

~~~
RobertRoberts
You may have a contradiction in your perspective. Well off people living
#vanlife aren't going to live in squalor.

It sounds like you have something against poor people living in vehicles?

~~~
notatoad
your expectations are incorrect, unless you think that people living in late-
model mercedes sprinter vans that have been camperized by custom van
outfitters count as poor people.

~~~
RobertRoberts
Your assumption seems reasonable. But all cultural changes disaffect someone,
but it doesn't mean they are bad as a whole. And this cultural movement seems
to be negatively affecting you in some way. There's an old saying that may be
useful here, "if you can't beat them, join them."

Why not try living in a van for even just a week and see what is going on from
their perspective?

I did this with homeless people when I was younger (I lived on streets for a
few days while in college) and it changed my perspective on them for the rest
of my life.

------
prawn
I'm fascinated by the lifestyle/community and follow it pretty closely. Even
built [https://vanspiration.com](https://vanspiration.com) to catalogue some
builds, though I'm behind on updating a few.

From what I can tell, this was the original vanlife-manual:
[https://thevanual.com/](https://thevanual.com/) The guy built out that site
with Ryobi branding and then pitched it to Ryobi as a marketing thing. They
gave him $15k or whatever it was, and it covered the costs of his vehicle and
build. Modestly brilliant.

------
skilled
Everything looks great, but the Instagram photos make me flinch a little. This
kind of lifestyle is far from all the glamour that the photos convey, which
makes me think this has turned into one big sales pitch.

I could be wrong. I'm known for being a pessimist, no doubt.

~~~
alistairSH
You're not wrong. I have a passing interest in owning a van or camp trailer of
some sort (for camping, not living). Many of the IG accounts are "influencers"
who are pimping their own niche van-life business.

"Look at me and my bikini-clad wife! (and please buy the solar panel kit I
sell through my web store)"

------
rbritton
I went a different route due to wanting to keep a home location.

We purchased a travel trailer (25’, 80 gallon fresh water capacity, 40 each
gray/black) just in time for the 2017 eclipse, and I’ve since built it out to
function as a mobile office for work as a remote developer. I have a
reasonably high battery capacity, solar, a whole-trailer inverter, an entire
LAN complete with wired network cabinet, and the capability to bridge onto a
WiFi uplink, cellular, or satellite internet.

I’d estimate we live out of it a cumulative total of 2-3 months of the year,
though I’d love to increase that.

~~~
stevehawk
i'm curious to see how you make it double as an office. I have looked at a few
trailers with the thoughts of ripping out a bank of couches I would never use
(some trailers are set up like you're going to be entertaining a dozen people)
and installing a desk, but haven't seen anyone do something like that.
Usually, I just see photos of people sitting at the dining table which isn't
really going to cut it for me.

~~~
rbritton
The wrap-around dinette in the back works for me, and I’ve put up a table
outside during comfortable enough weather. I have my mini server plugged in
inside my network cabinet, and I do not need more than a laptop screen for
what I do, so I’m not really wanting for anything. The back is a huge picture
window, so we choose parking locations with that in mind.

------
flossball
Be like motivational speaker Matt Foley -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv2VIEY9-A8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv2VIEY9-A8)

In all seriousness, it is cool as long as you have another place that is home.
Traveling for a living gets too much after awhile.

------
arthurofbabylon
Here’s my van story: I visited my parents one summer at age 19 and spent a
single day and less than $300 building our old family minivan into a home.
Mind you, that van would probably sell for $500-1000 pre-renovation. I built a
small platform for a bed that still relied on the back-most bench. I also
built a small shelf in the very back that held a propane stove and cooking
supplies. Very, very simple.

I lived in it for several years, traveling and rock climbing. You stand at the
back of the van and cook, and only go inside the main cabin to sleep or read.

Skilled van-residents generally don’t visit urban areas for extended periods
of time. British Columbia, Montana, Utah, the Chihuahua desert, Baja, Sonora
were the places to be. The whole point of a van is that it makes life really
easy in more remote areas - no need to set up a tent or set up a camp kitchen.

It was highly social, as I was immersed in the rock climbing community. I’d
make friends and we’d share every meal and have bad ass adventures. Then I’d
go to a new spot, be introspective for the 2-3 days of slow driving and
staying in semi-remote wilderness, then meet new friends at the next
destination.

Pooping while living in a van requires a different perspective than that of
most city people. First, there is no use of toilet paper - the water/left-hand
method combined with soap is simply more hygienic (in these remote areas,
people who poop like this are the only ones who wash themselves with soap and
water on a regular basis). Second, ‘waste management’ revolves around ensuring
other humans don’t have to encounter the decomposition process, which normally
means burying the waste and always means that one has to consider biological
processes, land-use/human behavior.

Here’s the real selling point: living in a van in nature means being connected
to every sunrise and every sunset. You’ll naturally get tired shortly after
sunset, and naturally wake up 30-60 minutes before sunrise. Temperature and
light fluctuations ensure a highly functional endocrine system that makes
sickness/depression/anxiety nearly impossible to take root. It’s a very
healthy and natural way of life.

I absolutely recommend it - but not for people who want to be highly
productive at crafting software/hardware.

~~~
frosted-flakes
I think I'd prefer to use a disposable glove than washing my butt with my bare
hand. That smell doesn't come off easily, and gloves are cheap.

------
andrew_
From the perspective of an avid saltwater fisherman (for which Yeti is one of
the most popular cooler choices) I would encourage anyone considering a Yeti
to look into the alternatives. I picked up an Rtic cooler for approximately
$200 less, same size as the Yeti. Performance is identical. Other similar
brands include Icer, Orca, Pelican, Engel. They all have different price
points and all have sales. If you can find a scratch 'n dent sale, you'll
typically save 25-50% for minor cosmetic blemishes.

------
jackcosgrove
Wearing jeans with holes in the knees, wearing pants under your skirt, living
in a van...what was once done out of necessity for those with less becomes a
lifestyle choice and style signal for those who have more. Touring in an RV
can be fun but #vanlife seems too much like class tourism to me.

~~~
lm28469
Culture is often like that, "For every action, there is an equal and opposite
reaction" seems to apply to a lot of things.

When you're overwhelmed by tech, constant notifications of any kind,
advertisement everywhere (in real and digital life), mindless media
consumption, work and wantrepreneur culture &c. I easily get why people want a
break from that, weirdly enough it seems that we're easily attracted by
extremes.

------
hesdeadjim
Out of curiosity, for those that have done the van life for an extended period
of time (say a year or more), how has it affected the relationships you had
before?

A part of me fantasizes about trying this someday, but the thought of not
seeing my friends on a regular basis sounds quite lonely in practice.

~~~
nickthemagicman
Digital Nomaded for a while.

I agree with you. It's pretty lonely 'after a while'. Everything starts to be
kind of the same just with a different aesthetic.

People fetishize travel but there's immense joy in the day to day things.
Community, family, good food, etc.

My preference is it's better to have a home base with a community and take
trips.

My preference would be to take month long trips once or twice a year and come
home to a home base.

That being said...I need to travel and get out of my head space and try to do
it often.

~~~
timmaah
I've been a nomad in the US for 6+ years. What has kept me on the road has
been the friends I've met and community we've created.

~~~
hesdeadjim
I guess it's going to be an individual preference for what counts as a
meaningful relationship with friends. For me doing shared activities together
on a regular basis is what brings me a lot of enjoyment in a friendship. I
have long-term friends who I mostly only stay in touch with via the
phone/internet, and it's just not the same.

To be clear this isn't a value judgement, but perhaps a point to consider when
thinking about trying this lifestyle.

------
olivermarks
To put some perspective on the romanticism of all this, shorten title to 'live
on the road'. I grew up going on camping 'holidays' in the UK as my father was
a great romantic, the reality in the US today is a lot more regimented
anywhere near surburbia. There are trailer parks in the USA for a reason - a
lot of people associate free spirited travellers as littering gypsies and in
many areas you are going to be harassed by the police. I have a friend who has
a great looking vintage truck with a vintage camper shell on it with sink,
cooker etc. He has long hair and he and his wife are constantly harassed when
on the road. The police can be extremely unpleasant. He owns 3 houses but is
used to the police calling him a down and out. Adding to @josefresco's
comments before you spend a fortune kitting out a van rent one for a month and
live in it in the mild weather spring or fall to get an idea of what it's like
and what you need. Also be aware a van can get stolen with all your
possessions in it. I had a 26 foot vintage airstream I was going to restore
stolen, apparently any sort of mobile living space is a great target for
people who live in the woods to steal and hide off road. Be realistic about
what you are getting into and install excellent security.

~~~
driverdan
I can't speak to Europe but I've been living in my bus for over 20 months and
have never been harassed by law enforcement.

~~~
olivermarks
what area are you mostly in? My friend is based in California but travels
cross country a lot, says it's worst in the mid west and south for him

~~~
driverdan
My home area is Austin but I've traveled up the east coast a few times and
through New Mexico. Many areas of CA are hard since there are a lot of NIMBY
anti-homeless laws. The midwest has a ton of BLM land so it's one of the
easiest places to camp, so long as you don't mind being in the middle of
nowhere.

~~~
olivermarks
Middle of nowhere is rarely a problem I agree from my personal experiences too
- it's proximity to particularly small towns with bored cops where my friend
has the most problems, including just driving through. Must be a visual thing,
maybe he triggers something with cops. His wife is gorgeous, maybe that is a
stimulant also. Mileage may vary etc with personal experiences

------
webninja
This guide needs a section on how to get a women to ride and live in it with
you. My Dad’s GF told him on no uncertain terms that he’d be a bachelor if he
lived in an RV. Thus he gave up on the RV idea.

Edit: It looks like we gave this website the loving hug of death. It says
“Error establishing database connection” now.

------
walrus01
I hate to link to what is quickly becoming the cesspool of the Internet, but
[http://reddit.com/r/vandwellers](http://reddit.com/r/vandwellers) is a
community for this type of thing.

------
planktons
Sleeping in your car is awesome. Last August my and my girl friend did a
spontaneous trip across the US, we visited 45+ states. And we did the whole
thing without a sigle hotel, sleeping instead inside of my Toyota Corolla. All
I did was fold the seats, throw in a cheap Walmart mattress, get super heavy
tint on the rear windows and signed up for planet fitness membership. It
actually worked. The key thing here is that we did it in a corolla. You can
park literally anywhere overnight in a corolla. We were never bothered in any
way about sleeping in that car. I don’t think anybody even knew. We would park
in hotel parking lots at night a lot because cars come and go at all hours,
the lot is always full and there’s no pattern of any kind that we would be
intruding on. So for example if we parked somewhere and the natives recognized
all the cars except that weird corolla they eve never seen, we would kind of
stick out. And if you are the only car parked inside a giant, empty parking
lot at 3am you are kind of sticking out. Later on I tried sleeping in
residential areas though, and I’ve never been bothered or asked about it once.
And I’ve done it more than a hundred times probably. If you use common sense
and don’t use the world as your bathroom, you will not have a problem.

We slept inside that car with the windows closed for a couple months. Never
had a problem with O2 or CO2 as far as I can tell.

I now sleep in my car regularly. It’s amazing to me that it’s not a thing to
sleep in your car. It expands your horizon immensely. You don’t get it until
you have yourself gotten to the point where sleeping in your car is second
nature. It’s a very useful skill to have. The camp fire is a really good
example.

If you were able to have a vehicle that you actually dedicated to sleeping in
(I’ve kept my corolla stock, besides the tint) and were able to modify then
you would be able to sleep anywhere at any time of year very comfortably. If
you are interested in this then def read ahead.

So we have a guy inside a car with the windows closed. Several things will
happen. First, the entire car and the air inside it will become the same
temperature as outside. Second, his breath will create extremely high humidity
inside the car. Third, CO2 will accumulate. Fourth, O2 will go down. This has
never been a problem for me but it’s true none the less.

Ok, the only other consideration is what temperature it is outside and how
humid it is outside.

If it’s cold, we have the follwing to worry about. The humidity in the air
inside the car will condense on the inner surfaces of the car. This is very
bad because you will have moisture under your carpet and absolutely
everywhere. You won’t be able to dry it and it will probably grow mold.
Second, you will just be too cold.

If it’s hot, the hot air in the car will retain the humidity longer, so
condensation isn’t a problem as much. But even a little hot is too hot because
your body heat will bake you in that car.

Ok, those are all the problems and considerations for sleeping in your car.
Here is how you handle them.

Energy recovery ventilator. Panasonic makes some great ERVs. These are
ventilation fans that have a special interchanging ducting that transfers heat
and moisture from the outgoing air stream to the incoming air stream or vice
verse. So what that means is that you are putting energy into keeping the
humidity and temperature within a certain range, this device will allow you to
replace the stagnant air with fresh air but not blow out all that energy along
with the air. These units are whisper quiet and use only 25 watts of power.
Every car has an air outlet somewhere near the rear bumper. If you could hook
up this unit to draw air and vent air outside, you would solve O2 and CO2. You
would also partially solve humidity. And you would partly solve being too hot.
If you are in a closed space, you need good ventilation.

Catalytic heater. I forget the name, it’s “wave 3” or something like that.
These heaters use propane but are safe for indoor use because they are
catalytic, meaning the produce no CO. They are also extremely efficient.
Propane is cheap and it’s everywhere. This would solve being too cold.

Air conditioner/dehumidifier. If the air outside is humid, you are going to
have to dehumidify. There is no way around this. Installing a portable
dehumidifier would solve this. A proper, compressor based one would be
required to keep pace. These use 300 watts or more. If it’s hot outside, vent
the hot part of the heat pipe to the outside. This solves the heat problem
completely, as the dehumidifier is now also an air conditioner with no penalty
on power or anything else. This would be trivial to implement. When it’s cold
outside, you blow the hot end of the heat pipe back into the cabin and you
don’t lose any heat, but humidity is controlled.

Extremely recently a fuel cell was released for use in the RV market. It runs
on propane. From what I can tell it’s real — some prominent RV brands are
starting to incorporate it into their products. They have made many
appearances at trade events for RVs. Needless to say, this will be a
revolution. Adding a fuel cell like this would allow you to dehumidify/cool
the inside of the car continuously all night. Charging several kWh off the
alternator is just not really an option. So, add the fuel cell and a really
good battery and maybe some solar and you have power for all I’ve menioned as
well as charging phones and powering other electronics.

Between all of that, you would truly be able to sleep anywhere you wanted in
total comfort. The only thing I would add woul be some stealthy cameras all
around the car and monitors inside so that I could quickly asses the situation
if I were woken at night.

Cheers

~~~
brudgers
Catalytic propane heaters discharge the products of combustion (CO2 and H2O)
into the heated space. Oxygen depletion is a health issue. Condensation can
also be a substantial issue. Even the smallest are sized much too large for
the small volume of a car (both in terms of heat output and required
clearances). The car is likely to become unbearably hot in less time than the
heater's warmup cycle.

There are closed combustion forced air systems that use LP that offer similar
advantages to diesel/gasoline systems like the Webasto (no oxygen depletion,
no humidity increase) [1]. The LP systems generally have better high altitude
performance because they operate on vapor pressure rather than utilizing a
fuel pump. There are a lot of places in the US above 5000'. A downside is LP
has a much lower energy density than diesel or gasoline so the cost per BTU is
higher.

[1] [https://www.propexheatsource.com/](https://www.propexheatsource.com/)

~~~
planktons
LP catalytic heaters also can leak propane and everyone who uses one is
recommended to keep an rv propane detector nearby. I haven’t seen these forced
air products before, thanks so much for bringing those to my attanetion!

------
dba7dba
The camper van movement is pretty popular for sure.

Sportsmobile has been converting vans to mini RV or camper van since 1965.
Someone recently got a guided tour of the factory by the owner and here it is.

[https://youtu.be/p3X9UjNx9g0?t=123](https://youtu.be/p3X9UjNx9g0?t=123)

He said there were about 100 vans at the factory at the time, in various
stages of conversion. And they were sold out for 14 months.

Near the end the owner shares stories of some of the customers. Some are
professional nature photographers/athletes (?) who must stay outdoors for
days, and need clean/dry place for equipment, eat/sleep etc. Having the van
saves them much time required to travel to/from hotel to their work site.

A lot of employees of Google/Apple also are customers of Sportsmobile.

And some are even medical residents who basically need a place to sleep
between shifts and choose to sleep in a camper van, parked at the hospital
parking lot.

So camper van is not just for people who want to travel for the sake of
travel.

I would love to have a camper van at my disposal so that I can go explore some
popular sites like Yosemite, beach campsites etc. But $100,000 is big money.

------
god_bless_texas
This brings to mind that recently someone posted in my city's subreddit
questions about their visit and where they could park their van. The comments
were outrageously unwelcoming and basically forced this person to consider the
next city along their trip as the place they should stop. I think what works
in one part of the nation doesn't necessarily translate to all of it.

------
MentallyRetired
For those interested in the lifestyle, check out /r/vanlife on reddit.

~~~
bitxbitxbitcoin
There's more people in /r/vandwellers but /r/vanlife is cool, too!

~~~
MentallyRetired
Good catch! I'm actually on vandwellers and not vanlife, was just mobile at
the moment and had a brain fart. :)

------
beezischillin
According to journalist Tim Pool (I can't link his video, sorry, I simply
can't remember which one of his this was in), these conversions are so popular
that the companies that work on doing them have so many orders that the wait
time can stretch into a year to get one done if you're looking now. (He wants
to create a mobile reporting studio.)

------
hanging
Note: "Volkswagen", not Volkswagon

------
adambware
Google Cached version

[https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:2PvAxE...](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:2PvAxEiBg-
UJ:https://divineontheroad.com/build-a-van/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

------
timvisee
We did it again HN! We broke the database!

Here's a mirror:
[https://web.archive.org/https://divineontheroad.com/build-a-...](https://web.archive.org/https://divineontheroad.com/build-
a-van/)

~~~
t0mislav
3 hours later, database still struggling.

------
AtlasBarfed
This lifestyle will utterly explode once self-driving EV vans with decent
solar cells hit reasonable price ranges. Drive overnight, recharge for a few
days with or without a power hookup...

------
driverdan
I discussed how I live in a bus yesterday in the tiny home post:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19085244](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19085244)

I converted a 25ft shuttle bus and have been living in it for over 20 months.
I have everything you'd expect in a house, toilet, shower, 4 burner range,
electricity, heat, AC, internet, etc. The difference is that I can take my
home and dog with me when I travel.

I'd be happy to answer any more questions here.

------
ohiovr
At this time I am not interested in living in a van but for a long time I have
wanted some kind of auxiliary heater for my minivan. It could be powered by
diesel or a five gallon propane tank. I think it strange something like this
is not off the shelf as unfortunately a lot of people live in their cars or
vans because they have no where else to go. For winter living it would have to
be better for the engine and for fuel consumption.

~~~
mikestew
An under-rear-seat, gas-powered (got its fuel from the tank) heaters used to
be an option on VW vans. Aftermarket offers Propex, but they ain't cheap. Plan
on a couple of thousand if someone else does all the work. $700 for just the
heater, IIRC.

What we used in our VW camper in winter was an indoor-safe propane heater:
[http://www.mrheater.com/little-buddy-
heater.html](http://www.mrheater.com/little-buddy-heater.html)

~~~
ohiovr
Thank you for the lead!

------
nothrows
[https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ws23jj...](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ws23jjbfQxgJ:https://divineontheroad.com/)

site seems slow or down here's cache

------
sbr464
This was a pretty interesting build, I was looking to get one of the battery
packs from Nissan when they become available.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pREpjFETTXA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pREpjFETTXA)

------
Freestyler_3
Why do I see insulation only behind the wood and in a lot of places I still
see metal.

------
znq
Two years ago I made a video about 3 years of living in a camper van. As of
next months it's actually gonna be 5 years.

[https://optimizingforhappiness.com/3-years-of-living-in-a-
ca...](https://optimizingforhappiness.com/3-years-of-living-in-a-camper-van-
and-running-a-20-people-remote-business/)

My plan was to make a whole video series out of it, but just doing one video
already took me so much time and with running and managing two companies[1][2]
at the same time, I didn't feel that I wanted to spend more time in front of a
computer editing videos. But maybe in the future I'll pick it up again and
continue the series.

[1] [https://bugfender.com/](https://bugfender.com/)

[2] [http://mobilejazz.com/](http://mobilejazz.com/)

~~~
asymmetric
Downvoted for the unnecessary links to your companies, sorry.

~~~
znq
No problem :-)

------
yodon
Seemed like an interesting and comprehensive site until the HN effect took it
down

~~~
40four
Ha, it's crushed. I can't read it at the moment, guess I'll try back later.

------
deedubaya
If you like the idea but lack the ability to build your own van, check out
[https://www.syncvans.com/](https://www.syncvans.com/). They make some really
cool rigs.

------
_mrmnmly
Here's another website related to this topic:
[https://www.mylittlebehemoth.com](https://www.mylittlebehemoth.com)

------
rajangdavis
Anyone have any tips for people who have friends entering the van life? I just
want to see one of my best friends be successful in this transition...

~~~
stevehawk
#1 tip I see on van life forums -

van life is hard and won't make you magically instagram happy. any unhappiness
you have right now you're probably just going to take with you on the road and
end up disappointed about the difficult van living.

------
jccalhoun
I'm not really claustrophobic but as a tall person all these stories about
living in a van or a tiny house just make me feel cramped.

------
rynop
[https://www.vanlifeprep.com](https://www.vanlifeprep.com) is another good
related site

------
machinesmachine
and site is dead

------
redcodenl
And... its gone. Database error. :-(

------
EGreg
You can buy RVs online for $26K

~~~
RankingMember
Hmm, oddly-specific number. Is there are a particular site selling a bunch of
RVs for $26k each?

------
cheesymuffin
I lived in a van in the Bay Area for 8 months, then a totaled RV for 10. Don't
let anyone tell you otherwise -- it's awesome. If you find decent parking
spots (it's not hard, just use google maps) you'll find tons of areas that are
quieter than those $2500/month apartments in San Jose with planes whizzing by.
I got pretty good at sleeping with shooting range earmuffs. For a long time my
routine was wake up whenever I wanted, bike to Starbucks or a library, read
for a few hours, bike to the gym, work out, and read for the rest of the day.
When I was in Pacifica I would get hours of sun, which you can't really do
with a 9-5.

The problem is that it's incredibly socially isolating. Very few of my friends
treated me any differently, but I still got progressively more lonely. More
and more of my "reading" became surfing Youtube and chatting on IRC or 4chan
with people I'd never be able to meet in person. I spent a lot of time being
mad at police. I'd meet girls on Tinder with the thought in the back of my
head that they wouldn't find my sketchy RV as funny as I do. I'd prefer it to
paying $2k/month for a studio with no heat and stressing out about money all
the time, but I wouldn't be able to keep that up, either.

It's not like you need a toilet to survive. We went without them for most of
human history. You need a toilet to fit in.

~~~
nradov
As a society we need toilets to survive. Diseases spread by human waste such
as cholera are a major reason why average lifespans used to be short.

~~~
cheesymuffin
Apologies if I made it sound like I was pooping on the beach. I wasn't. :)

~~~
coryfklein
Where _were_ you pooping then?

~~~
cheesymuffin
At your house.

