
Help I don't want to be a programmer anymore - treskot
http://www.itworld.com/career/340205/moving-programming-something-else-anything-else
======
sid6376
This is another "I was like this" story. Two years ago I was at Microsoft
India Development Center, horribly demotivated and decided to move away from
programming. Actually I had realized one and half years in that I wasnt
interested in my job and tried a lot of things to switch to a different role
within Microsoft but none worked. I wanted to run away from programming.

A lot of the advice I received was similar as written in the article. But I
honestly did not know what to run towards. I was utterly directionless.
Ultimately,in a brief moment of madness induced bravery, I quit my job without
any future prospects. While at home I re-discovered my love for programming as
i was working on hobby projects. I responded to yummyfajitas' post on the
Who's hiring thread, got the job and my life has been awesome since then. I
absolutely heart programming , I keep on trying to learn new stuff and cant
think of moving away.

All of this to say, if you feel like this, change your job, join a startup or
learn a different language. Not everyone thinks in the same way. You may not
be great in one paradigm of languages but that doesn't stop you from loving
another programming paradigm.

------
msvan
I think many of those of us who get into programming in the first place do it
because of some kind of intellectual curiosity and because we get a thrill out
of building things with tangible results. Which is probably why you'll find
lots of programmers also interested in playing musical instruments, learning
foreign languages, writing fiction and so on. It's a certain kind of mindset.

I've been thinking about what jobs can potentially offer the same kind of
intellectual stimulation as programming, and while I'm sure they're out there,
programming offers this and is a skill that you can actually make quite a bit
of money from while not being as ridiculously competitive as, say, being a
movie director or a songwriter. If you know of other jobs that fit this bill,
let me know.

~~~
vonmoltke
Any engineering discipline would fit this bill. Its what attracted me to it to
begin with. I wanted to build things. I started building things from kits
(Lego, plastic models, etc) but soon graduated to doing my own thing.
Engineering was a natural choice, and electrical engineering specifically
because of my interest in electronics.

------
tosseraccount
Anyone depressed about software needs to check out the BLS salaries for
occupations:

<http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm>

At least you're getting paid okay. Finance, Doctors, lawyers, management make
more. I'd argue they have to put up with a lot more bull. Development is a
piece of cake comparatively But software has a an extremely low barrier to
entry. All you have to be is good.

------
eksith
It's called a premature midlife crisis (usually happens right before or at age
30). Some people get over it by dumping their life experience before that
point completely while others, like myself, slowly wean off programming onto
something else.

A friend I've known since high school gave up a very lucrative career as a
managing consultant to become... a farmer. Yup, he plants stuff and sells them
at a bi-weekly market and keeps going in the winter thanks to his greenhouse.
Currently engaged to a lovely lady and, to my surprise and delight, he's
completely happy.

It's a funny thing to feel like the industry you're good at (or been cornered
into) is really not how you want to spend your life. And may in fact be
zapping what life and vigor you have.

Which is why, I've been improving my carpentry while keeping up with
automation tech (Arduino, Raspberry pi, Beaglebone etc...) so when I build my
smart green house and cabin, I can get down to what I really want to do.

Making soap.

Side note: This isn't as crazy an idea as you might think.
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IryIOyPfTE>

~~~
pivotal
I think I may be starting to feel this as well. I'm 27 and have been feeling
resistant to staying a programmer. My father in law has been showing me the
ropes of being handy - woodworking, wiring electric, etc. I've been brewing my
own beer occasionally baking bread and some days it just seems like doing
anything with my hands instead of sitting at a desk all day would make me feel
much more alive.

Then again, maybe not. I've gone through this with programming before and I
usually swing back around to enjoying it.

It also helps that the pay is great for something that a lot of days I think I
would do for free.

------
fallous
Most of the time my bouts of "screw this, I hate programming" has more to do
with myself and losing sight of what value I'm providing than anything else.
Sure, I'd love to have a job where I am constantly in a state of
intellectually-stimulating ecstasy tackling new and daunting challenges... so
would every other person on the planet, but such jobs don't exist.

Programming is a service business. You're solving people's problems so they
can spend more time doing work that is more productive/fun/challenging/etc
(hey wait a minute, that's what _I_ wanted!) When you lose site of who's
receiving the benefit of your work, you start focusing instead only on your
own needs and down the rabbit-hole you go.

I freely admit that I make this mistake regularly due to distance from those
who are using the results of my efforts, but I also tend to burn myself out
because I don't segregate work and life well enough. In Dream Job(tm) where I
am always being challenged with problems that involve deep thinking, I can
guarantee that I would burn out much faster due to this. Hard problem? I'll
just work it until I've solved it to the detriment of all other activities.
But that's how I work, and I know it so it's up to me to try and short-circuit
that when it ceases to be healthy.

I would say that finding a hobby where you're working with your hands or
engaged in the physical realm tends to help balance things out. All software
is temporary and contemplating the months and years spent building something
that will most likely be tossed in a decade or less is demotivating. So build
some furniture, restore a motorcycle, paint a picture, anything that has a
chance for permanence. It helps me, a lot.

------
ColinWright
Print version, thus single page: <http://www.itworld.com/print/340205>

------
euroclydon
I love programming. But certain aspect of the career do get to be a grind:
Sitting in a chair all day makes my hamstrings tight, working on a large
globally distributed team is frustrating because I spend so much time just
trying to coordinate rather than writing code, and some days every tool we use
seems like a half-broken POC.

I'm starting to think programming is a lucrative career not because of the
skills or intelligence it takes, but because of the frustrations you have to
be prepared to handle over the long term. Do many people wash out of
programming? It seems like we need to invest more time figuring out how to
handle the pain of the career in order to reap the benefits of have a great
salary over several decades.

------
darkxanthos
As a programmer, I don't understand the sentiment in some of these comments.
When you're a builder, your job is to control costs (short and long term)
while building as rapidly as possible. The returns on cost savings are
bounded.

The returns on driving new products has a very high upper bound, if any.

Now some companies hire programmers to be included in that profit driven area
of the business, I prefer to work at those places. If you work somewhere where
programming is deemed a cost center, well I wouldn't want to work there but
I've heard of many companies that have made a sustain able biz out of it.

~~~
darkxanthos
I forgot to add, this is also the reason I've shifted towards "data science".
Still get to code but I also add immensely more value to the business as I
experiment to grow profits.

~~~
jordan_clark
Good point. Everyone wants to be respected and wants to feel like they're able
to contribute to the company moving forward.

~~~
darkxanthos
Actually that's a really great point. :D

That's really what's happening here. There are all these programmers who
desperately want to do something the business highly values. Maybe some of
them haven't figured out the optimal intersection between their interests and
their businesses.

Not everyone cares about this, but HN has a different class of programmer. ;)

------
contingencies
Broden your perspective: don't program. Give yourself two years. Create social
change. Programming might be a means to the end; eating simply on social
security might be a means to an end; but showing the government and society
where your allegiance lies is priceless. You will have greater respect for
yourself, greater respect for your output, and greater associations for it.
Break away from industry.

Look at samba, rsync, wikileaks, tor. We can do that. We can do more of that.
We don't need the businesses.

------
JimmaDaRustla
Best advice I received in college from my DB teacher: "If you can't handle
this...well, you might as well drop out and take culinary."

------
xradionut
Much of my work related programming is SSDD tasks. (Same Shit, Different
Day/Data) Occasionally I get to do something creative at the office, but the
real joy comes from the side work and the hobby programming. Instead of
dealing with Yet Another Pile Of PCrappy Data, I get to deal with
microcontrollers, radios and antennas.

------
Maven911
Me neither, i just can't handle the stress anymore, large sw base, sprints,
etc.

------
wiradikusuma
Well, those who can't code, teach...

~~~
jfb
Glib, but given the delta in the quality of thought displayed in an average CS
professor's papers, and, say, POSIX, I would say it's safe to put this old saw
to bed.

------
michaelochurch
I like programming a lot. If I'm away from it for more than a couple weeks, I
start to miss it.

The software industry deserves to choke on a dick and die, however. Fuck bad
code, micromanagers, dopey "startups" that expect 14-hour days on the
assumption that 0.0x equity slices represent real "ownership", closed
allocation, and regimes in which programmers don't choose their tools. All of
that can go to hell.

As software engineers, we're a defeated tribe. We work for businessmen, get
little respect in comparison to the value we add, and often are pigeonholed
into roles that are 3 levels below our creative and intellectual ability. We
do most of our work for managers and investors who think we're losers because
we don't have their jobs.

To me, quitting programming is just running away. _Programming_ was never the
problem. We need to take control of this game. We need to take it back and
make it good-- and fast.

~~~
mmcconnell1618
Doctors have to go to medical school and then have a residency and the AMA
closely controls the total supply of physicians. Lawyers have to go to an
accredited school and then pass the bar (in some states the school part is
optional).

A computer science degree is the closest thing the tribe of programmers has to
a professional certification. There are some organizations that have attempted
to bring the tribe together but none have gained serious tracking. (asp-
software.org, aitp.org, computer.org)

What's most interesting to me is that doctors and lawyers actually have legal
protection. In most places it is illegal to perform medical services without a
license or offer legal advice without a law degree. There is no equivalent
protection for programmers. Imagine a world where an individual could be fined
for writing a business app without being a certified developer. Suddenly the
value of certified programmers would jump up quickly and those who couldn't
meet the standards would be quickly drummed out of professional development.

~~~
jug6ernaut
Those licenses are not to protect the Doctors/Lawyers, they are to protect
their clients.

Having such a system for programmers would make no since and would make the
situation much worse. A college degree means a lot but you can be a very
good/success programmer without one.

I would NEVER go to a doctor/lawyer who did not have the correct credentials
to practice. As such you "practice" medicine and you "practice" law. Do you
practice programming(in the same sense?), no you don't.

~~~
arethuza
Also worth noting that, at least in some places, lawyers share quite a lot of
liability for their work - direct personal liability or as part of a
partnership (and limited liability partnerships might not protect you as much
as you would think).

If a lawyer screws up badly enough then they can have their credentials taken
away and they can't do their job anymore - that's arguably the main difference
between a professional and an academic qualification.

~~~
michaelochurch
The #1 defining trait of a profession is that there are ethical obligations
that supersede managerial authority. You don't have the "I was following
orders" excuse if you do something wrong or unethical. You answer to the
profession, not a manager. At least, that's the theory. In practice, there's a
lot of variation. Law is technically a profession, but "white-shoe" law (aka
biglaw) is pretty horrid, culturally speaking.

This is a benefit, in the sense that the profession goes out of its way to
prevent you from being beholden to a single boss, but a drawback in the sense
that if you do screw up in a bad way (or get unlucky) you can find yourself in
a really bad situation when you lose your license.

I don't know how well that can be applied to technology where there are so
many moving parts that 100% bug-free software is impossible.

------
frozenport
I like ______________________, but have found that I’m not very good at it
professionally, should I get an MBA?

I think this is why MBAs are increasingly seen as worthless

~~~
lss456
As a programmer who has gone the MBA route (will be done in the Fall), I have
to say it's been positive for me. Not because I can point to it on my resume
and say "look what I have!" or "look what I'm getting!", it's been positive
for the following reasons:

a) It's increased my ability to communicate clearly in small and large groups.
b) It's given me great context regarding where IT and programming stand in the
overall business model c) I've met many professionals around the area in all
industries

It's contributed very much to my personal and professional growth, and I
haven't even finished yet.

But should you just go get it? Only if it's right for you. Know yourself
first, and what you want to do with your life. If it fits in, then go for it
and it'll be a great experience.

~~~
henrik_w
Exactly. If you love what you do, you have a much better chance of being great
at it. So switch if you don't feel programming is for you.

Programming experience is still valuable, even if you switch. In my
experience, it will make you much better at many related roles in a SW
companies, such as project manager, product manager or business analyst, since
you'll know what it takes to produce the SW (what's hard, what's easy etc).

Personally, I've been programming for over 20 years (always at companies whose
main product is SW), and I still love it:
<http://henrikwarne.com/2012/06/02/why-i-love-coding/>

------
seivan
I feel like that occasionally. I wish I did some different decisions when I
was younger. I always look with envy at lawyers, sociologist, political
science major and other bullshitters. Especially the ones who work for the
government No work effort, very little pressure to come with results. Even
product managers or "UX" people...

I know it's arrogant of me to say so, but the more I observe them, the little
they seem to work, or if they do work, it comes off as snake oil.

~~~
drewmck
UX guy and former management consultant here. I can tell you the grass is
always greener...

As a management consultant I was expected to grind out pointless "decks"
(powerpoints) all day long. And all night long? Grind out RFP's for new
business (which are usually more decks).

UX designers generally have a higher job satisfaction if they are with the
right team. However, these jobs are difficult to get and easy to lose. Many of
the UX designers I graduated with from HCI school are now looking into front-
end dev, visual design and business strategy. Why? Because UX designers can
easily become marginalized, and if all you can do is sketch and put together a
few basic wireframes, you can quickly find yourself on the periphery of the
team. You should see some of the bored/desperate emails I get from colleagues
who either have 1) nothing to do or 2) don't get the respect they 'deserve'.

~~~
seivan
Snake oil. That's UX. A good iOS developer can do both mobile design as well
as the code required.

Don't need some photoshop slinger calling him/herself "Mobile iOS designer".

Code it or gtfo.

