

Why I'm Close to Giving Up on Windows Phone 7, as a User and a Developer - ct
http://blog.dantup.com/2011/03/why-im-close-to-giving-up-on-windows-phone-7-as-a-user-and-a-developer

======
makecheck
Microsoft's an interesting beast. Things that "should" matter to them, like
Windows, somehow reach the point of almost falling apart (see Windows Me or
Vista). Then, groups that are practically losing money build great things like
the Xbox 360 and Kinect. Some products that stumble end up dead, like the
Zune, while others are dragged back up to par (see IE9 and Windows 7). This
current mess could mean anything from "WP7 is doomed, sell your stock" to "the
Eye of Sauron just hasn't shone on that product group yet". We'll see.
Personally, I'm thinking WP7 will pull a Vista or two and then become a cool
phone OS, but the competition isn't standing still either.

When Apple was launching the iPhone, they pulled engineers from their flagship
Mac OS X to work on new phone software. They seemed to think it was pretty
important to launch with a strong product and have all the details right; to
them, even delaying a product from another part of their business was an
acceptable risk. When was the last time Microsoft did anything like that?
Instead of slapping together product groups to shove their way into every has-
been market, they could stand to divert some developers, developers,
developers to products that need a polished launch, such as WP7.

~~~
iamdave
That's the thing I never understood about Microsoft. When they really focus,
and spend more time on producing a product versus marketing a product, the
seem to do some great things (SEE: Windows 2000/NT).

It seems like MS could really use from some user centric project managers or
something to really get them on the course to consistent delivery, because
that's what's lacking.

Vista was a bust, 7 was a phenom by MS standards. The 360 did OK, the Kinect
was brilliant. By the logic that is the Windows development cycle, Windows 8
is going to be an abysmal failure. I'm an OS X user now, but I'll still say
how great Win7 is, and the only thing I wish to see come from the company is
some form in consistency with their products and marketing. These "To the
cloud" commercials NEED to stop.

~~~
TomOfTTB
Without making a judgment one way or the other in regards to the people at
Microsoft I'd make one point about what you said. The problem with looking at
Microsoft through the lens of Windows NT to Windows 7 is that Microsoft
consists of completely different people in those two eras. The people who
spearheaded windows in the time of Windows NT and Windows 2000 were worth tens
of millions of dollars by the time Vista went out to door. So most had long
moved on to personal ventures.

~~~
iamdave
You have a very valid point, however I'm not per se making the argument of a
dichotomy between Windows NT and Windows 7. I am however saying that Microsoft
CAN, when they narrow down build some great products. And it seems like every
time, as soon as they do, they trip up on their own two feet and fall face
first on the very next one.

------
TomOfTTB
I think this attitude has been the downfall of a lot of developers over the
years. You fall in love with the development environment and then you transfer
that love to the platform itself. The problem is sometimes great platforms
aren't paired with great products.

Microsoft is at least two generations behind Google and Apple at this point.
Some would argue three generations. I'm a .net developer who loves C# too so
I'm sympathetic. But putting a lot of resources into Windows phone 7 at this
point is just folly

~~~
kenjackson
_But putting a lot of resources into Windows phone 7 at this point is just
folly_

It feels like MS isn't putting enough skin in the game. They shipped the OS in
September. Great. That gets you a toe in the door. They should have rev'ed
that OS at least as many times as Apple has theirs. Apple has shipped 5
updates to iOS since September. MS -- one (the update to prepare for future
updates, so really not even a real update). That's embarrassing that the
market leader, with 300k apps in the appstore and 100M devices on the market
is more agile. And as a developer, you have to ask yourself, "Is this a
platform I want to get in bed with?" At this point, I wouldn't.

~~~
masklinn
And to complete this, even if you compare W7P with the early iPhone OS
(arguing that both are version ones, not that they're both living in 2011),
the first 6 months Apple shipped 1 major updates, 3 bugfix updates and 1
compatibility update (for the 1st gen iPod Touch).

And a second major update in month 7.

2.0, 3.0 and 4.0 were all followed by 2 major and 2 bugfix updates in the
first 6 months.

------
alok-g
Is it any better with Android? Here's a list of issues:

\-- Android resets your phone to factory settings without asking you or even
giving a warning if you port a number to it. This deserves a class-action
lawsuit. See here: [http://androidforums.com/droid-x-support-
troubleshooting/131...](http://androidforums.com/droid-x-support-
troubleshooting/131476-hard-reset-when-porting-new-number-x.html)

\-- Using the built in email application, sent emails often stuck in the
outbox. See here:
[http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/android/thread?tid=6d4...](http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/android/thread?tid=6d4b97299085cebe&hl=en)

\-- Wifi on the phone does not work if SSID is hidden. See here:
<http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1041>

\-- Bluetooth on the device is unable to connect to a desktop to transfer
files or sync. See here:
[http://www.bing.com/search?q=android+bluetooth+paired+but+no...](http://www.bing.com/search?q=android+bluetooth+paired+but+not+connected)

\-- Once you sign in into Google Account using any Google app (like Gmail),
you cannot sign out, ever! Only way to "sign out" is to reset the phone to
factory defaults, which means loosing all your data and needing phone
activation again. See here: [http://www.sizzledcore.com/2009/12/27/how-to-
remove-change-g...](http://www.sizzledcore.com/2009/12/27/how-to-remove-
change-google-account-from-android/)

\-- They have artificially blocked use of Google Calendar app on the phone
from functioning unless using a Google Account. Of course Google isn't
interested in Outlook Sync, but even third-party developers suffer. Many have
started providing their own calendar apps. See here:
<http://www.syncdroid.net/>

If you follow the links, you may notice that many of the issues have been open
for a few years, some since Android version 1.6, etc. Google just does not
care.

To fix the issue with sent emails stuck in the outbox, people have started
from the source code of the built-in email app and created K-9 mail, which is
10X more powerful, and works.

~~~
joenathan
Actually you are wrong on a few of those points, for one, I use bluetooth to
transfer files to my phone(2.1 device) all the time, but I have seen some
android phones where that does work, it seems to be dependent on whether or
not the manufacturer has lock that feature down or not.

Also you can remove or unlink you google account in the "Accounts & Sync" area
of the settings menu.

~~~
alok-g
You could be right about Bluetooth issue being linked to manufacturers.

My Android (v2.2) does not allow removing Google account.

~~~
tomjen3
My HTC Desire does allow that, which phone do you use?

~~~
alok-g
Motorola Droid 2 Global

------
jdub
TL;DR: A very long cover letter for the guy's job application to the Microsoft
Windows Phone team.

~~~
potatolicious
And power to him - if only everyone on the WP7 team cared this much. IMO these
certainly aren't the words of someone just trolling for a job.

------
xentronium
I am not in any position to give advice to Microsoft, but it seems to me that
they are trying to apply the winning strategies they used in one game to all
the others.

Example: WP7.

What is expected: They ship fast and they update fast and agile, they don't
have giant compatibility legacy to maintain.

What actually happens: WP7 took forever to ship and never got updated.

My speculation why it happened: they've got some lengthy and fairly
bureaucratic process of approving new features, new versions, etc. They apply
the same methodic they used with windows to their WP7, like, always maintain
backward compatibility, be very reliable (well, you all know what happened)
and predictable. They're, like, four years late and they keep wasting time.

Not to mention that WinMo wasn't too great either. I had an iPaq, which was
sort of okay, but it didn't rock. It wasn't "cool" in any sense. And they
probably vastly underestimate the coolness factor.

My $0.02.

~~~
mattmanser
I don't think that's their strategy generally.

Their current development strategy for things like MVC and Silverlight is to
pre-release new functionality as an unsupported project, full source and
iterate fast. They're quite agile in areas.

WP7 feels like some one has suddenly put the breaks on it.

~~~
smiler
It's one thing to ship MVC & Silverlight as unsupported projects and iterate
fast, but quite another to iterate phone software quickly where you could
potentially brick millions of phones with one small software update.

As noted in this blog post, an update applied to the phone broke it and the
user had to get a brand new phone. This added a customer service burden to the
mobile provider / network - which in turn means they will moan to Microsoft
when they do this and give them less enthuiasm for WP7 devices in future if it
keeps happening.

------
dr_
This is just another example of Microsoft not having their act together. I
mean, forget Windows Phone 7, but Vista was just a disaster. The company
nearly sacrificed it's main revenue source. Apple isn't exactly known for
being transparent on matters either, but you can imagine if something goes
wrong there what the internal pressure must be to get it fixed ASAP. Because
soon enough they do fix it. As Steve Jobs himself said, "great artists ship"

I still really feel Microsoft can get back on track if they had new executive
level management. Someone younger, bolder, a little audacious but with the
ability to execute - like for example bringing back Gundotra at the CEO level.
It's just that they need to do it sooner rather than later.

------
swilliams
The marketing for Windows Phone 7 was pretty extensive in the US. I don't
watch much TV, but I definitely saw plenty of the "We need a phone to save us
from our phones" ads. Was it really that much smaller in the UK?

And have there really been NO bugfixes or patches (other than the notorious
one he mentioned)? That's insane. Microsoft has got to know how far behind the
ball they are... why aren't they pulling out all the stops on this?

For Microsoft: This isn't Windows. You can't wait 3 years (or more) for every
release.

~~~
dagw
I don't know about the UK, but there has been zero windows Phone 7 advertising
in Sweden. No TV, no billboards, no in store promotion, hell I haven't even a
working WP7 demo phone in any electronics store. If you don't follow tech
blogs there would be no way to know that WP7 was even out. Compare this to
Android where there is plenty of promotion on all fronts and it looks like
Microsoft doesn't really want to sell phones here.

------
peteypao
His Microsoft-centricity is pretty annoying.

------
Legion
tl;dr: Guy keeps buying shitty MS mobile products, MS dutifully keeps making
shitty mobile products.

Very reminiscent of Apple fans in the '90s, buying crap products because
they've defined themselves to be on Team Apple.

~~~
kenjackson
That's possibly the worst most inaccurate tldr I've seen. Did you read the
article or just project what you'd like it to say. You do no one any favors by
posting an inaccurate tldr.

~~~
bostonpete
tl;dr: Legion's tl;dr sucked.

------
mahrain
The worst thing about Microsoft is that they launch technologies / platforms
without much success and then just close them up. I read that "Windows Live
Spaces" is closing down, now Zune is closing shop... Imagine you invest time
and energy in the Spaces network or a Zune setup, you're out of luck.

Worse, there is no upgrade path.

~~~
rahoulb
Nowadays, I suspect Microsoft's strategy is "throw shit at the wall and see
what sticks"

------
cemetric
I'm always under the impression Microsoft is counting on luck when it comes to
bringing out software. The kinect (or what's the name) is a big success, but
is this because of the hardware or the software? I'm wondering too if
Microsoft takes itself serious at times.

~~~
redthrowaway
It's an interesting point. I think MS's courting of kinect hackers signifies
that they haven't quite figured out what it's for yet. They know they're
sitting on an awesome piece of hardware, and damned if they know what to make
of it. Right now it's Wii++ and they know it could be so much more, but they
don't know what. They're looking for inspiration from those who really do see
its potential.

Really, this is a microcosm of MS in the Ballmer era. They still have
incredible engineering talent, but they have no vision.

------
rch
I'm happy to see a thoughtful, objective post on WP7 by a generally pro-MS
developer.

Well done.

~~~
astrodust
It's got the same flavor of sadness that an Amiga ST fan has when describing
their favorite computer.

I hate to say it but by the time Windows Phone 8 comes out, if it ever does,
the iPhone, Android and quite possibly RIM will be way ahead. Seems like 2013
at the absolute earliest for Microsoft.

------
stretchwithme
Why are you only close to giving up? Is this windows phone thing a significant
platform?

[http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2010/12/07/microsoft-doesnt-
expe...](http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2010/12/07/microsoft-doesnt-expect-
windows-phone-7-sales-to-catch-up-to-ios-or-android-any-time-soon/)

Mossberg asked: “So.. how long before you’re back into the market… back up to
a good marketshare, up there with Android and Apple?”

“I don’t know..”

“Couple months?”

“Longer than that.”

“Couple years?”

“Maybe.”

Isn't it time to stop developing for OS/2?

~~~
recoiledsnake
That sounds realistic for a nascent platform. Even a super awesome OS will
take time to displace the incumbents. You're disappointed that you didn't get
BS marketing speak that it would defeat Apple and Google in 2 weeks or what?

~~~
prr
> You're disappointed that you didn't get BS marketing speak that it would
> defeat Apple and Google in 2 weeks

[http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/10/microsoft-celebrates-
wind...](http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/10/microsoft-celebrates-windows-
phone-7-rtm-with-funeral-parade-for/)

I'll just leave that there ;)

~~~
recoiledsnake
Where's the marketing speak there?

That seems to be an internal joke for the team after their hard work over 2
years for meeting the deadline of the 2010 holiday season and to "rally the
troops".

------
kbatten
Hasn't this been the same story for every windows mobile OS though? I gotta
say I would be in the "gotta see it to believe it" phase if I were a mobile
developer.

------
rodh257
I wonder what this experience is like compared to early Android adopters? Was
there similar issues, with bugs and then updates not coming for them?

~~~
erikpukinskis
Android has some pretty wacky longstanding bugs, even now. My friend and I
both have HTC Incredibles, and whenever I text him I come up as his friend
Frank, with Frank's picture.

I got a bunch of very confused texts from him before we figured that one out.
Now whenever I text him, I have to append (This is Erik).

~~~
kenjackson
If you were dating a couple of girls, that could end up with some really
embarrassing situations.

------
jister
Was the first release of iPhone or Android really that flawless compared to
WM7?

~~~
rahoulb
I bought an original iPhone because a colleague said "there's an awful lot it
doesn't do but what it does do is so good you won't miss the rest".

I may be miremembering but I don't recall any real issues with it, and it
still is the best phone I've owned.

------
yread
_I even started working on iPhone apps. I really hate Mac OSX, Objective-C,
and XCode. But I had to go with the market._

Stopped reading here.

~~~
inflatablenerd
Why?

~~~
yread
I don't understand why a web developer would _have_ to go and develop
applications for mobile platform when (s)he doesn't enjoy it. If I had to work
with in an OS that I hate, with developer tools that I hate in a programing
language that I hate I would rather change jobs.

~~~
rick_bc
But it's not a job for him; it's his business.

