
Design for Hackers: Why You Hate Comic Sans - kadavy
http://www.kadavy.net/blog/posts/why-you-hate-comic-sans/
======
wccrawford
He keeps saying it's an 'unattractive font', but the truth is, it became
popular because so many people like it.

Here's the kicker: It's only 'unattractive' to people who know everything
about typefaces. Nobody else cares, and they find it pleasing.

~~~
ugh
I don’t think people really like it, they pick it because their choices are
overwhelming, confusing and subtle.

Comic Sans’ message is obvious, it’s easy to pick out in the long list of
fonts in Word and has a memorable name. It’s obviously and painfully friendly
and playful.

How are normal people supposed to be able to tell that a font like Georgia is
also much friendlier than the angular and rickety Times New Roman while at the
same time being entirely appropriate for nearly every imaginable formal
setting (unlike Comic Sans)?

Friendly fonts exists on everyones’ PC, it’s just that Word’s font picker
doesn’t allow you to tell the difference at a glance unless it’s really
obvious like in the case of Comic Sans.

Using fonts is hard, that’s why most people who are not used to doing it and
have no experience with it pick extreme fonts with obvious differences.

~~~
dalore
Is there a website/app/service that will ask you what features you want of a
font and it will show you recommendations?

~~~
sudont
I haven't seen one, but it could be a fairly nice weekend project. Use a
couple of hacks[1] to get the fonts, compare that with a list of font uses,
and ask the user:

What's the emotion to be conveyed? Where's it used? (Heading, wherever)

Then, display the top font, and a visual list of choices. I suppose that one
could also link to free OSS fonts as well, but that would likely have to be
second-tier compared to using what's on the computer already.

1\. <http://www.lalit.org/lab/javascript-css-font-detect>

~~~
grokcode
I would love to do this as a weekend project, although I don't have the first
clue as to what fonts should be recommended based on what uses are intended.
Anyone interested in collaborating? I'll do the backend and you develop the
questions and font recommendations.

~~~
sudont
PM'd you. I do front-end as well.

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skermes
People with dyslexia apparently find Comic Sans substantially easier to read
than many other common computer fonts: <http://www.dyslexic.com/fonts>

It would be interesting to have something similar to CSS media queries for
screen size for accessibility flags. Making it easier to change fonts for
dyslexic people or color schemes for colorblind people would be great.

~~~
jacobolus
Your summary is much more emphatic (“people”; “substantially easier”) than any
of the research I’ve seen.

As for color schemes: any scheme which makes a website unreadable by the color
blind will make it mostly unreadable by everyone else, too: human vision
distinguishes shapes and details mainly via lightness contrast.

------
nowarninglabel
Thank you, this was a very convincing statement on a subject that I usually
cannot find a solid answer to. I have queried quite a few designers on Comic
Sans as to why they hated it. Most of the time the answer is "Cause it sucks".
Sometimes the answer is "because it is used everywhere". However, in terms of
the web, there are a couple of surveys showing the usage of Comic Sans is
pretty far down the list. Why don't design schools teach designers how to
articulate why something is bad? Even if the answer is "because it evokes a
negative emotional response" should be followed up with some description of
the kind of emotion it invokes and hard data.

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brendanbell
McSweeney's imagined monologue
<http://www.mcsweeneys.net/links/monologues/15comicsans.html>

~~~
defdac
I love this piece. It gave me a hard kick in the face, and I kindof liked it
=)

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callahad
Holy cow. Aside from the terrible kerning, Comic Sans actually looks pretty
reasonable without anti-aliasing.

And even saying that makes me feel dirty. :(

~~~
rm445
I think the small font size may be a factor too. Some of the 'yuk' factor of
Comic Sans comes from seeing it too many times in poster sizes, usually in a
range of colours too, with the large size accentuating the poor letter spacing
demonstrated in the article.

Served up small, Comic Sans doesn't have quite the same feel of awfulness.

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burgerbrain
I never really wondered why Everyone hates comic sans so much,that much is
obvious. What I want explained is why everyone _loves_ helvitica _so_ much.
It's just a plain but readible font, there are _tons_ of those.

~~~
kadavy
Personally, I actually don't like Helvetica. It produces a rough texture, and
I don't feel that the forms are harmonious. I adore Akzidenz Grotesk (the
predecessor of Helvetica), but it's much less common.

I concede, however, that Helvetica really is an excellently readable and
anonymous font.

~~~
tmgrhm
I really like Helvetica, although I also really like Akzidenz (perhaps more).
I'm not entirely sure why, but Akzidenz seems to be used a lot in German print
and often looks downright gorgeous when paired with a good font for copy. For
example, Fluter has some nice design… [example
(PDF)]([http://www.fluter.de/heftpdf/issue95/artikel9084/pdf_article...](http://www.fluter.de/heftpdf/issue95/artikel9084/pdf_article9084.pdf)).

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corin_
Can't help but link to an old favourite picture of mine, seems appropriate.

<http://www.corincole.com/misc/random_pics/comicsans.jpg>

 _edit: in case it's ambiguous, 'mine' refers to it being my favourite, not my
photo_

~~~
jamesbritt
Funny that someone feels fit to critique the use of a particular font, but has
no clue how to use proper capitalization.

Now I'm imagining a copy of the _Chicago Manual of Style_ , all in Comic Sans.

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jacobolus
I don’t think aliased 12px Comic Sans (a heavily hinted font, with large
x-height and even strokes, designed explicitly for the screen) can fairly be
compared with whatever Garamond variant he flashed on screen (a font intended
for use with high-resolution printing on paper, by appearances not at all
hinted, and maybe even a type 1 font). A reasonable comparison would be to
Verdana or Georgia, which would nicely show the Comic Sans version to be
dramatically worse looking.

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bitwize
Comic Sans is despised precisely because middle-aged, middle-class moms love
it. It's not great, but it's not as terrible as the design snobs, itching to
deploy their portfolio of expensive Zapf typefaces, are making it out to be.

You want a _bad_ font? Try the garbage that MTV used for titling in the
mid-90s. They stopped using nice, clean Kabel for music video lower thirds and
started using this uneven-baseline, uneven-stroke-width trash font.

The 90s sucked in so many ways...

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christopherslee
The nerd and wannabe designer in me was fascinated by reading the article, but
I struggled with the takeaways other than a detailed reason to "not use comic
sans" (which I think I've been able to do post 1997.)

Are there more conclusions in the article that I should apply to my designs
beyond the typography choice?

~~~
tel
Consiration of text weight translates directly to design weight all across.
Text is meant to be read, therefore even weight helps the eye move quickly,
smoothly across it like a well-paved road. This might not be the goal you're
shooting for in a page design though!

Aliasing and antialiasing is a big deal with web design as well. Oftentimes
making your designs match the pixel grid will render them uniquely sharp
allowing smaller details to be visible. If you miss the pixel grid you'll deal
with antialiasing tech which will induce a subtle blur. Either effect may be
desirable.

Finally, it's always worth refreshing the value of detail in design. The pixel
level comparison of Garamond, Helvetica, and Comic Sans can be inspiration for
the level of detail required to make a truly lively design.

~~~
christopherslee
Thanks, that sounds so well thought out and reinforces to me that there's a
lot I need to learn.

But at the same time, I barely understand what you wrote :(

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sp332
I know, I post this on EVERY Comic Sans thread. But, it's still awesome, so
I'll post it again. The Best Comic Sans Story Ever:
[http://www.metafilter.com/86695/I-thought-I-was-the-only-
one...](http://www.metafilter.com/86695/I-thought-I-was-the-only-one#2824387)

~~~
kadavy
I hadn't seen that before - it's moving and funny at the same time. Thanks for
that :)

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RoyG
I appreciate that Kadavy actually delves into the technical deficiencies of
Comic Sans before he gets to the real heart of the matter at the end.

He misses the larger 'hacker design' point, however - unless you are an
experienced designer, you are much better off picking a standard classic font,
such as Helvetica, than trying to get all 'design-y' and picking some weird
display font, in the mistaken belief that somehow this is adding 'personality'
to your design.

~~~
kadavy
> unless you are an experienced designer, you are much better off picking a
> standard classic font, such as Helvetica

I'll definitely be making a similar recommendation in my book. Thanks for
reading.

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WillyF
I have a friend who works at a well known management consulting firm. One of
his clients insisted that every deck was done in Comic Sans. The client
already had a bad reputation, and this quirk just made it worse.

~~~
binarymax
Rookie mistake. Always have a no comic sans clause in your contracts. If the
client asks to remove the clause during negotiations, run.

~~~
iwwr
You seriously have a comic sans clause? Any chance of a quote of the legalese
around that?

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simias
This article is very interesting, but as a comic sans hater myself, I don't
think it's really the technical details of the typography that are at the root
of my loathing.

I have the same hopeless feeling when I receive a letter in comic sans as when
my boss's assistant sends me an email with a 1Mo gif saying "happy new year"
or when I see a billboard ad where the pixels are 10cm wide because someone
thought resizing the 100x100px jpg in MS paint would do the trick. Or, more
extreme, when I found this website yesterday: <http://taxis75.fr/> .

The annoying part is that it looks unprofessional, and out of place. It makes
me think the person didn't even _try_ , didn't even take 2 seconds to
contemplate the result of their "work" and realize what a mess it is. As
someone who tries to be perfectionist, not to overlook the details; seeing
people making such a terrible work and getting away with it is a bit
offensive. And when I receive a letter or a service note written in comic
sans, I feel it's disrespectful.

~~~
scott_s
> I don't think it's really the technical details of the typography that are
> at the root of my loathing.

> The annoying part is that it looks unprofessional, and out of place.

I submit that the reason behind sentence two are the technical details
mentioned in sentence one.

~~~
simias
Well, it's designed to be a "comics" font, it doesn't really try to hide it.
It's by design, not a technical failure. The name of the font alone should
tell anyone it's a no-go for any serious communication.

~~~
scott_s
Correct - that doesn't disagree with my point. The technical details of the
look of the font are _why_ it looks like a comics font.

------
JacobAldridge
For obvious reasons, I'm reminded of this marvellous (true) story about
recognising, rewarding, and hating Comic Sans -
[http://www.johnbraine.com/2010/10/the-king-of-comic-
sans.htm...](http://www.johnbraine.com/2010/10/the-king-of-comic-sans.html)

In actual fact, I support the continuation of Comic Sans solely so I can share
that link / story with people.

------
cpeterso
Because what's a sans face without a serif? Introducing Comic Serif!

Download: <http://www.dafont.com/hvd-comic-serif.font>

Real life examples: <http://www.idsgn.org/posts/comic-sans-comic-serif/>

FYI: This is a real font, though these sites have some NSFW language.

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knowaveragejoe
I agree that comic sans is the wrong choice of font in most applications, both
from a legitimacy and readability standpoint. However, if you're into game
development, I've discovered no better font for in-game text. Almost all other
popular fonts looks out of place in a game.

~~~
Sindisil
I agree. I'd love to hear of a readily available font that has similar feel.

In games, I occasionally use a font called Galette Medium, but it has a
decidedly different feel.

------
philh
>When aliased at 12px, Comic Sans is more readable than Garamond.

It's also bigger. Why not increase the Garamond size until it fits the same
amount of text in the box?

I could believe that comic sans is still more readable, but this doesn't seem
a fair comparison.

(For that matter, what does "12px" even mean, when one font seems to be larger
than the other in both x and y directions?)

~~~
thristian
Font measurements are given in terms of the "em square", a notional square
inside which each glyph sits (this is why the CSS "em" unit has "1em"
equalling "the current font size"). A 12px font should have each glyph fit
within the same 12×12px square. Exactly where the characters are drawn in that
square, and at what relative size, is up to the designer - but usually they're
drawn so that the em covers the distance from the bottom of lower-case
descenders (j, p, q, y) to the top of ascenders (b, d, k, l).

Historically, in the days when a "font" meant "a set of metal blocks of
uniform size with a glyph engraved on the end of each one", the "font size"
was the height of each block of metal, which was an important thing to know
when all the metal blocks used to set a page of type had to physically sit
next to each other.

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andrewl
Does anybody know what font Larry Gonick uses in his "Cartoon Guide to..."
books? It's informal and cartoonish, but it doesn't bother me (in the context
of Gonick's books). I wouldn't want to read a novel in it.

~~~
jcl
It is a custom font based on his own handwriting.

[http://www.simple-talk.com/opinion/geek-of-the-week/larry-
go...](http://www.simple-talk.com/opinion/geek-of-the-week/larry-gonick-geek-
of-the-week/)

If you're looking for comic book fonts, Blambot has some nice ones, used
throughout the industry.

------
aneth
Comic sans is popular because it is unpretentious, disarming, casual, and
playful - it looks a bit childish, messy, and handwritten. It's interesting to
read why designers don't like it, but they are completely wrong to "hate" it
or advocate that people stop using it. Were comic sans "properly" designed, it
would likely look overly clean and pretentious, the opposite of the effect
people use it for.

