

Techies don't understand what business Apple is in - bergie
http://caffeine.shugendo.org/2011/01/21/techies-dont-understand-what-apple-makes/

======
ekidd
People don't suddenly become stupid when they learn how to program. Plenty of
"techies" can analyze Apple's strategy just fine. Similarly, being a
non-"techie" does not automatically bless you with deep understanding of what
Apple's doing.

~~~
ZachPruckowski
No, they don't become stupid. But their view of the uses of computers changes.
Everyone reading this post is in the top 5% in terms of computer skill. The
majority of the friends of everyone reading this post are in the top 25% in
terms of computer skill. It gives a very warped perspective of the "average
computer user". You know that guy who's still getting the hang of EBay and
Amazon and who Googles URLs instead of typing them? He's the average computer
user[1]. Which means half of all computer users are less capable than him.

For instance, consider the sentence "Angry Birds is lots of fun - you should
get it from their website, they take paypal"[2]. To HNers that's incredibly
straightforward and simple - (1) Google "Angry Birds", (2) make sure it's a
legit site, (3) look for the "Buy" button, (4) check out, (5) enter your
paypal information, and (6) install the game. To me (and most HNers, I'd
imagine), the hardest part of that is "what was my PayPal password again?",
but to the average computer user, that's a confusing 30 minutes, part of which
will be spent on an ornithology site. It's for that average user that things
like the Mac App Store and locked-down phones were designed.

The point of this long, meandering post is that the reason techies have issues
analyzing Apple's strategy is because they mis-over-estimate the skill of the
average computer user, for the totally understandable reason that they're
surrounded by people with well-above-average computer skills.

[1] - Probably hyperbole, but not by much. [2] - I've actually never played
Angry Birds.

~~~
bad_user

          Everyone reading this post is in the top 5% in terms of computer skill
    

Yeah, pat yourself on the back, you're smart.

    
    
         who's still getting the hang of EBay and Amazon, who 
         Googles URLs instead of typing them
    

Never used EBay, never bought anything from Amazon and I also Google for URLs
from time to time ... pretty sweat if you can't remember the exact string.

    
    
         techies ... mis-over-estimate the skill of the average computer user
    

I actually think we underestimate the "average" computer user more often than
not.

Apple's products are not idiot proof. The iPhone itself does take some time
before you become productive with it. But they make the learning process fun
and they respect their customers enough to not make them feel like idiots.

Also, there is no such thing as an "average" computer user, as that would mean
some kind of common-denominator, which would be false since all people have
different personalities / skills.

    
    
         I've actually never played Angry Birds.
    

The game is free of charge in the Android market. Search for it and click
install.

~~~
calloc
> Yeah, pat yourself on the back, you're smart.

He put you into that same category ...

> Never used EBay, never bought anything from Amazon and I also Google for
> URLs from time to time ... pretty sweat if you can't remember the exact
> string.

He is referring to people that type "facebook" into google to go Facebook.com.
He is making a generalised statement. Generally to present an argument or
point it is okay to make generalised statements to help bring a point across.

> I actually think we underestimate the "average" computer user more often
> than not.

I tend to overestimate them, to each their own. Who are you qualifying as "we"
here anyhow? Clearly I don't belong in your "we".

> Apple's products are not idiot proof. The iPhone itself does take some time
> before you become productive with it. But they make the learning process fun
> and they respect their customers enough to not make them feel like idiots.

No, not idiot proof but they are easy enough to pick up and start using by
just playing, click on options, turn stuff on and off, download new apps to
play with, hit the home button and back you are in familiar territory. The
same could not be said for some other pieces of software. It took me a while
to figure out how the Zune worked for instance, it wasn't intuitive like my
iPod was.

> Also, there is no such thing as an "average" computer user, as that would
> mean some kind of common-denominator, which would be false since all people
> have different personalities / skills.

"average computer user" is used in the same manner as "average person" or the
"average child" (such as "the average child at age 10 can read X").

------
klochner
We understand, it just annoys us.

~~~
Locke1689
Why? Why do all companies have to operate the way you want them to and why do
you have to buy their things?

~~~
Locke1689
OK, to the two people who have downmodded my post, please clarify. This is a
serious question: I don't understand why people who don't buy Apple products
complain about Apple. It's not like they completely control the marketplace --
so what's the point (other than whining)?

~~~
cryptoz
I didn't vote you down, but I'll comment on the issue.

First:

> Why? Why do all companies have to operate the way you want them to and why
> do you have to buy their things?

klochner never said companies "have" to operate a certain way. He just said
that a company annoys him. That's all. He said nothing about how the company
"should" or "must" operate. Just that the current model was annoying.

Second:

> I don't understand why people who don't buy Apple products complain about
> Apple.

For the same reason that people who don't run Windows complain about
Microsoft. Apple and Microsoft are defining forces in their industries. Even
people who don't buy their products are massively affected by the actions of
those companies.

Examples: I don't own Windows or Office, so for years I could not reliably
open .doc files. [1] Microsoft's proprietary file formats affect those who
don't have enough money / don't wish to purchase their products.

I don't own any iOS devices, but I am a software developer. If the future of
computing moves to iPad-like devices (say, tablets, phones, whatever the
future brings), Apple's closed model affects me greatly. I would be less
capable of selling my own software due to their practices.

Microsoft doesn't demand money from you if you want to develop for Windows.
Apple _does_ demand money from you if you want to develop for iOS (and seeing
as iOS will soon - or already has - gained more users that OS X, I believe
this is a fair comparison).

This is not a good model for the future of computing, but it is the model
Apple is using and they are a powerful force.

So even though I do not own any Apple products, they are a dominating force in
the industry and what they do _matters_ to me.

Edit: [1] I think that .doc is now an "open" standard, right? LibreOffice will
probably _eventually_ be fully compatible, but it's not ready yet.

~~~
bphogan
Microsoft doesn't charge you to develop for their PCs and neither does Apple.
However, if you'd like to develop for the XBox or the Windows 7 phone, you are
under almost the same terms as Apple.

This is something Apple pioneered, and you can bet other companies are going
to want a slice of that sweet sweet revenue pie.

~~~
cryptoz
> Microsoft doesn't charge you to develop for their PCs and neither does
> Apple.

Yes I know, I tried to address that in my comment. I postulated that there are
more iOS users than OS X users, just as there are more Windows users than XBox
or WP7 users.

For the purposes of my example, I picked the OS from each company with the
greatest number of users. I definitely think my example is valid here, despite
the differences between "PCs" and tablets, phones, whatever.

------
orangecat
_the original Macintoshes were every bit as resistant to consumer meddling and
“improvement” as the iPhone 4_

Until the iPhone, Apple never tried to stop you from running whatever software
you wanted on your hardware, nor did they accuse you of being a criminal for
doing so.

~~~
Herring
Well it's about time someone tried it. Computers have been failing the 99%
rest of the market for a long time now. I'm a GPL advocate, but I'd argue the
problem Apple is tackling is more important.

~~~
Tichy
Linux package managers solved the problem long before Apple's App store.

~~~
calloc
Sure, but the user experience on Linux is nowhere near that what Apple's Mac
OS X or iOS provides.

That is the issue, and why Linux has not yet become a major force on the
desktop. Too many times stuff will go wrong and it is down to a command line
to fix it. Too much configuration exists within the command line there is no
graphical user interface for it. There is no single Linux version, so stuff is
stored all over the place. There is not a single package manager (Do I need
the .deb, or the .rpm?).

This is what confuses users, and the choice paralyses them.

I am a geek, I absolutely love playing with different OS's and whatnot, but I
am sick and tired of having to worry that updating is going to cause my OS to
not boot (I'm looking at you Ubuntu and your nouveau graphics driver).

Linux package managers may have "solved" the problem, but that is not what you
get points for. You get points for getting users to adopt it and use it. Apple
gets an A in that category (App Store on Mac OS X and iOS is a success), Linux
a D (Package managers are a success, but the user experience isn't).

~~~
ZeroGravitas
I'd argue the number one reason why Apple's got a bigger marketshare than
Linux is that Microsoft delivered Office for one but not the other.

------
Gibbon
There's a book I read long ago, whose title I've forgotten, that argued all
companies compete along five axes: Price, Quality, Experience, Access and
Service.

Every company dominates one axis, excels at another and is at par with the
rest.

One might argue that Apple dominates in the experience category and is above
average in service with everything else more or less at par with the
competition.

But they certainly don't sell experience.. they sell computers, mmkay?

~~~
ZachPruckowski
They definitely sell experience. The average user mostly wants[1] (1) email,
(2) Facebook, (3) iTunes, (4) web surfing, and they don't really care about
how the box on their desk gets their emails, whether it's open source or
closed source, locked down or modifiable, or even if it's electronic or just
really fast carrier pigeons.

Like the article said, the average user wants toast, not a toaster.

[1] - it's starting to look like we can add internet video to this list.

~~~
oemera
Wait. Never saw a developer with a Mac? I surely know more developers who own
a Mac than any web-facebook-itunes-email guys.

Talk to some Rails developers, I will bet my nuts that none of the experts,
ninjas, you name it are developing on a Mac.

~~~
epochwolf
> Talk to some Rails developers, I will bet my nuts that none of the experts,
> ninjas, you name it are developing on a Mac.

I use a Mac with OSX to do rails development. I don't want to stroke by own
ego here but I'll be having those nuts. :)

------
stevenj
Many techies are familiar with fast food; particularly pizza.

You pick up your phone and dial the pizza place. [1] You tell them whether you
want pepperoni, supreme, or cheese, etc. You tell them the type of crust and
quantity. They may ask you if you'd like any of their side options -- soda,
salad, wings, breadsticks, etc. You answer them. They tell you the total price
and you both hangup.

Then some "magic" happens. And about 30 minutes later your doorbell rings. You
get excited because you're really hungry! Afterall, you've been busy hacking
and didn't have time or want to spend energy thinking about food. You just
want to get back to hacking.

Most people want technology to work like this. They're not interested in
hacking. They're at the movies, shopping, playing sports, at bars, raising
kids, etc. "Normal" life stuff.

And if you offer a better experience, perhaps by making an especially
delicious pizza, or by delivering it faster, even better. You can also
probably charge more for it then, too.

Most of the time Pizza and Apple products "just work". And it so happens that
there's a significant market that wants (and is willing to pay) for things
that "just work".

[1] Or you order online because it's a better experience -- you can focus your
energy on what you want.

------
dedward
Just a side note about those weird screws.

When dealing with consumer wifi gear, the FCC required that we use non-
standard antenna connectors, for instance - to prevent people from just
putting whatever they wanted on there.

This wasn't specifically to prevent tampering, but to make it evident that,
from our point of view as a company, we do not intend or encourage people to
just open it up and mess with it.

~~~
trotsky
Is there something more to that story? I have plenty of consumer wifi gear
(<$50 routers, <$20 usb adapters) that have 100% standard antenna connectors.
In fact, I don't have a piece of consumer radio gear that has a non-standard
antenna connector.

~~~
wmf
The FCC requirements about non-user-modifiable equipment are vague, so some
people interpreted them to mean non-standard connectors and others interpreted
them to mean simply not telling the customer about non-compliant antennas.

------
stcredzero
App makers should heed this message: You are in the _experience_ business.

------
oemera
I think this true cause everytime people are asking my why I use a overpriced
machine they are arguing with something like this "Oh what a big deal my
300-dollar-netbook can do that too" and I say yes it can do it but not in the
same way and with the same experience. I mean this is saying something like: I
could watch a great movie in IMAX 3D which would cost 16 bucks or I could just
watch a mambo-cambo movie which will cost just 5 bucks. Saying that boths are
movies is true but not the point. We are not going to the cinema cause we want
to go to the cinema, no we are going to the cinema cause we want to watch a
great movie, right?

------
brudgers
> _"But what they really sell is an experience: consistency and ease-of-use,
> and working right out of the box, combined with solid and thoughtful
> industrial design and user interface"_

What Apple really sells expectations, because actual experience only comes
after the money changes hands. It's unfulfilled expectations which frustrate
the subset of hackers mentioned in the article. Those expectations are in no
small part legitimate. Apple thrives off the mythology of changing the world
via the power of the individual...even while the prize is a passive
consumption.

~~~
maukdaddy
You just proved the article correct.

~~~
brudgers
Consider the current iPad TV ads which show a medical app displaying vital
statistics. That segment conveys the idea that the iPad can be adapted to
interface with medical devices. It implies a hackablity and flexibility which
isn't really accessible to the end user in the sort of setting where such an
application would be useful.

~~~
maukdaddy
It doesn't imply Hackability at all. You are projecting your tech knowledge
into hackability. The commercial is demonstrating that a medical app runs on
the iPad.

~~~
brudgers
The commercial doesn't repeatedly flash "iPad Runs..." or "iPad does..."

Instead, the theme is the existential (and grammatically incomplete) "iPad
is..." encouraging the viewer to complete the subject. Structured such that
the viewer will project their own goals and desires onto the object, it
intends to instill the belief that each unique idea can be brought to fruition
by the device.

In other words, even such biased completions as "[The] iPad is an energy
conversion device" are an valid and grammatically correct. Anything which pops
into the viewers mind works within the pattern by marketing intent.

As the article points out, Apple's actions are along the lines of "We don't
like people like you." The hurt to hackers when their expectations are
unfulfilled by Apple may not be so much technical as social. The
disappointment is not, "These damn screws," but rather "Hey, I thought you
said I was cool."

------
rst
"Apple doesn't sell computers"? The iPhones and iPods are arguably consumer
appliances, but they aren't out of the Macintosh business yet.

~~~
tptacek
Apple still sells computers like GE still sells light bulbs. In the meantime,
Apple themselves announced the shift to consumer electronics when they changed
the name of the company 3 years ago.

------
emehrkay
I'm a "techie," the kind that dabbles in various areas of software development
and I'd choose an Apple computer before any other to do my dabbling with.

------
shaggy
In my opinion Apple is the best marketing company out there and they just
happen to sell (mostly) consumer level computing and entertainment devices.

------
beefman
No, we get it. Non-techies don't understand the importance of literacy:
<http://min.us/mvfKzrP>

------
klync
Can I get my nickel, please? I was promised one every time the phrase "they're
selling an /experience/" was uttered.

------
mbesto
Apple is just like Starbucks. Starbucks doesn't sell coffee, it sells a user
experience.

------
lotusleaf1987
Oh please, it's not just the experience it's everything: the hardware,
software, UI, materials, industrial design, aesthetics, and peace of mind.
Apple has become a 'trustworthy' company in a marketplace of untrustworthy
corporations. By that I mean, if you by an iPod/iPhone/Macbook you know beyond
any doubt you will get software updates, that if a problem occurs there is a
reasonably easy way to fix it, that the materials and hardware (this includes
the case and hinges) will be superior to what else is available. Why would
someone by a Creative mp3 player or Archos when there is no guarantee the
company will stay in business or that the company will ever bother updating
the software. Samsung is in the business of selling phones, not building a
software platform. So again, why would I buy a phone that costs as much or
more for as an iPhone but may never again be updating?

Think about it, how many different types of laptops does Dell of HP or Toshiba
sell? It's absurd. It's like the difference between the GM when there was
Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Buick, and Saturn. There were just too many overlapping
products that confused their customers. They (GM, Dell, HP, et al) spread
themselves too thin. Look at who ended up doing well: those companies who
narrowed their product scope down: BMW, Honda, Acura, Scion. Maybe companies
need to think about staying _ahead_ of Apple instead of just playing catch up.

Apple isn't just selling an experience, it's selling security and peace of
mind.

~~~
pyre

      > Why would someone by [sic] a <company> or <company> mp3
      > player when there is no guarantee the company will stay
      > in business
    

So Apple is the only company that is guaranteed to say in business? Then why
don't more people buy Microsoft mp3 players?

If we assume your claim that Apple is guaranteed to stay in business, then we
also have to accept the possibility that Apple being the dominant player in
the mp3 player is what is driving the other companies out of business. In
other words, the fact that people are buying Apple mp3 players instead of
other brands is the only reason that Apple is guaranteed to be in business
while the other companies (according to you) could go under at any moment.
This seems like a feedback cycle to me, and this probably has less to do with
the quality of Apple products than it does with feedback cycle itself.

tl;dr If Apple is 'guaranteed' to stay in business while others could fail at
any moment, then it has more to do with a feedback cycle of people buying
Apple products than it does with the quality of Apple products.

You're also not realizing that (as far as the iPhone is concerned), most
people get new phones every 2 years (in the US at least) because they just pay
the subsidized price when they sign a new contract.

~~~
calloc
No, but with the iPhone for example is that I with an 3G still was able to get
the latest version 4.2.1 for my phone, it is not until 4.3 comes out in the
near future that I will no longer be running the latest iOS.

The iPhone 3G was released in July of 2008, I will have gotten software
updates with new features, bug fixes and other stuff for almost 3 years.
Owners of Samsung Android phones are not getting the latest and greatest (not
yet at least).

Also, Microsoft has shot themselves in the foot multiple times. Plays-for-Sure
and some of their other music initiatives have not been compatible with each
other, especially the Zune. Why would I go with Microsoft if within the next
couple of years that I own the device they could suddenly close down a music
store or deprecate a certain music format thereby making my device instantly
unusable. Apple has proven since the first iPod came out that if I purchase
music on the iTunes store that I will be able to listen to it on any Apple
device I own for years to come. That stability is important to a consumer.

~~~
pyre
How many 'normal people' even know/care about OS updates?

~~~
Xuzz
They know that they can't get the game they want because their phone isn't
"new enough", when the game just depends on the Android 2.3 gaming
improvements and could easily run on their hardware.

------
jpr
Relevant:

Non-Apple’s Mistake

<http://www.loper-os.org/?p=132>

------
ajl2011
tl;dl another apple experience fluff piece circa 2007.

------
solus
Even though the author has a valid point on what Apple is selling, there is no
reason besides a completely selfish one on Apple's part for them to disable
features and discourage customization. They should be able deliver everything
the article mentions as their strengths while not disheartening power users if
they tried.

~~~
absconditus
So where is the company doing this?

~~~
burgerbrain
Is it cold under that rock?

