
Letter I Used To Get Back 100% Of My Security Deposit From A Hostile Landlord - programmernews
http://www.collegetimes.tv/security-deposit-letter/
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tptacek
I did this before and ended up in court. If you're renting from a property
management company (not an uncommon situation), chances are they have counsel,
or are perhaps themselves attorneys. They're willing to play chicken.

(We ended up settling to recover the security deposit).

Style note: it might not be the best idea to repeatedly threaten legal action.
First, as I learned recently on HN, doing that can create a procedural
opportunity for your adversary.

Second, the law _is in fact on your side_ in these cases, and, as I learned
when we sued our landlord, the most effective way to win these cases is
statutorily: you carefully establish the timeline and the basis for contesting
the damage, and if they don't respond properly, they can auto-lose the case
and be on the hook for treble damages.

If I found myself in this situation again, I'd send a note emphatically but
emotionlessly contesting the damages, noting dates carefully, and send that
registered mail. I would not attempt to educate the landlord on landlord-
tenant law.

~~~
larrys
Agree that this letter (as what you have just indicated exactly) is a YMMV for
sure.

As a landlord myself I didn't have to even read this letter to know that it
would be worth my while to dispose of this problem by paying back the money.
My take is "this guy has a lot of time on his hands and I don't".

Otoh, there are others who will fight a battle just for the sake of the battle
and there are other battles that I do fight literally just for fun sometimes.
It's like a game in a way.

In contrast I had a few commercial tenants (Physician practices) and had to
withhold some money on move out for various issues. We wrote a long detailed 3
page letter knowing full well that the Physician wasn't going to take the time
to question any of the information that we so completely presented. And they
didn't. And we never heard any issues or complaints or a peep about the money
that was not returned (we returned some escrow of course).

So once again, in business, it all depends on the circumstances and the
particulars of each situation.

One other thing I will point out is in our state an individual can represent
themselves in small claims court but a corporation can't. So right off the bat
if you are suing a corp you have an advantage their unless they have in house
council or want to send a particular message of "don't mess with us".

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tzs
> 9 out of 10 lawsuits in the world are now filed in the United States, which
> is also home to over 80% of the world’s lawyers

The source the article cites for this says the US has 1.2 million lawyers, so
they are claiming the world has 1.5 million lawyers, and that there are only
300k lawyers outside the US. This is wrong:

    
    
       Germany: 139k lawyers [1]
       France:   46k [1]
       Greece:   36k [1]
       Italy:   121k [1]
       Spain:   114k [1]
       UK:      151k [1]
       Turkey:   55k [1]
       Brazil:  622k [2]
       Mexico:  215k [3]
       China:   200k [4]
       India:  1300k [5]
    

[1]
[http://www.ccbe.eu/fileadmin/user_upload/NTCdocument/table_n...](http://www.ccbe.eu/fileadmin/user_upload/NTCdocument/table_number_lawyers1_1179905628.pdf)

[2]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Brazil](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Brazil)

[3]
[http://www.law.harvard.edu/programs/plp/pdf/Mexican_Legal_Pr...](http://www.law.harvard.edu/programs/plp/pdf/Mexican_Legal_Profession.pdf)

[4]
[http://www.china.org.cn/china/2011-12/26/content_24249504.ht...](http://www.china.org.cn/china/2011-12/26/content_24249504.htm)

[5] [http://www.legallyindia.com/201302183448/Bar-Bench-
Litigatio...](http://www.legallyindia.com/201302183448/Bar-Bench-
Litigation/rti-reveals-number-of-lawyers-india)

------
mindslight
Everyone in California should be aware of their ability to request a pre-
moveout inspection. You do a walkthrough with your landlord a few weeks
_before_ moving where they list all defects, which (in theory) gets you on the
same page and gives you a chance to fix the damage. They are unable to
withhold for anything not on this list (damage obscured by your items and
later-occurring damage excepted).

California publishes an easy to read tenants handbook that outlines this as
well as many other details of state law. It's well worth the twenty minutes it
would take the average HNer to read it over. (also, depending on where you are
there may be additional municipal laws covering things like causeless
evictions, etc)

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larrys
Hey, tenants can be "assholes" as well.

Here's a txt that I got two days ago from a tenant who hadn't deposited his
rent (due on the 1st) by the 7th. (I waited two days before even saying it was
late):

[first he sends a picture of "the money"]

Then this text:

"Omg!!! I totally forgot to go to the bank on Friday and send it. I went to
Boston over the weekend and it totally slipped my mind I was going to deposit
it before I left for my flight. So sorry!! Don't worry I took a pic of the
money so you know. Have it. I will bring it over to [bank name] as soon as I
get a break at work. Again super sorry about that.".

So that's the actual text. Sent 2 days ago.

Today it's the 9th. Still no rent. Just texted him again before seeing this
post.

~~~
lostcolony
In the tenant agreement, consider including an acceptable late payment date,
and a fine if not met (depending on local leasing law). My current place says
rent is due on the 1st, acceptable to turn in as late as the 3rd (mainly to
account for things like office holidays, Sundays when the office is closed,
and the like), and any payment made later is subject to a $100 fee.

Having that helps break tenants down into well defined groups, I suspect, and
the appropriate remedies; people who pay on time (or nearly; no worries
there), people who don't and who end up paying extra (would be a pain, but an
extra $100 a month helps with that), and people whose leases should be
terminated for non-payment (because they've gone a month without paying).

~~~
larrys
That's already in there. The rent is due the 1st and on the 5th the penalty is
due.

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gregpilling
As a landlord with 6 rentals, I would say that this is a good letter.

Videoing the apartment is a good idea too (one I think I will do myself!) to
record the state it is before and when you move out.

I usually don't have to claim anything out of a deposit when a tenant moves
out, with the exception of the really crazy tenants. Crazy like poo smeared
walls and leaving the living room filled with garbage all over the floor, etc.
Careful tenant screening is the cure for this problem in the long run.

~~~
tptacek
Every. Single. Landlord. I've leased from has treated the security deposit as
a "13th month's rent". The last two places we rented, we even hired our own
cleaning service when we moved out. We still got dinged things like $500 to
mow the lawn.

~~~
bigtunacan
Every. Single. Landlord. I've leased from has returned my security deposit in
full without any hassles.

~~~
tptacek
Congratulations. You have better luck than I did, and than my renter friends
did. Maybe it's the time period. We bought a house in 2004 (and again in 2005)
and haven't rented since.

~~~
bigtunacan
We also bought a house in '04 and have lived there since; so I would have been
renting at the same time period.

People are people; some honest, some dishonest, but geography could have
something to do with it as well. We have rented solely in Iowa, and in general
I have found that a higher percentage of people (certainly not all) in this
region place great value on honesty and personal integrity.

------
midas
I've always been surprised that landlords routinely return security deposits
in full. After a decade of renting in multiple cities, I've always received
100% of my deposit back, even in cases where it probably would've been fair to
charge me for some minor things (holes in the wall from hanging things, some
small stains, etc).

There are penalties in some cases (the letter in this post says in Georgia if
you get caught there's a 3x penalty), but I've never heard of those actually
enforced.

In other words, there's a lot of incentive for this to happen all the time,
especially since landlords don't have much of an online reputation (like
restaurants). The fact that it's rare in the US is a great sign for doing
business here generally.

~~~
jghn
The only time I've ever not had my full deposit back was when it was
explicitly stated in my lease that I'd produce a receipt for professional
carpet cleaning before I left and I didn't bother to do so.

I think in general landlords look at the "reasonable wear and tear" clauses
and consider how tenant friendly the courts are. That claim is pretty vague
and it's not really worth their time or the legal fees to deal with someone if
they get their back up over a handful of smaller charges.

