

Nokia N9 - Geee
http://swipe.nokia.com/

======
flyosity
Beautiful hardware design, innovative user experience (borrows good stuff from
Windows Phone and webOS), lots of popular built-in apps, outstanding camera,
but...

...built on MeeGo, the operating system Nokia dumped for Windows. It's sad to
see that Nokia's last MeeGo hurrah is on a flagship device that may never see
a major update in its future.

~~~
Geee
I'm pretty sure they'll reconsider the final strategy if this device is
successful. At least it seems to get pretty much positive attention right now.

~~~
toyg
It would take Nokia two years to steer back on MeeGo, two years they can't
afford; it's not going to happen. Look how long it's taking them to get a
Windows Phone model out, after steering in January and committing all
resources they still have...

It's a shame, without the useless Intel deal this phone could probably have
hit the market last summer and could actually have had a real shot at changing
things. Now it's dead in the water. After wasting my time for months on the
N900, I'm not going to touch again a dead platform.

~~~
nextparadigms
But the Meego phone is coming out _before_ any WP7 phone.

~~~
toyg
Yeah but the product teams have long moved on by now.

------
saturdaysaint
Even when Microsoft debuted WP7, my feeling was that UI prettiness was "where
the puck is" and not "where it's going". In 2011, a phone with a pretty
touchscreen UI and a bunch of basic apps is more "where the puck _was_ ". Even
if we assume the software runs as smoothly in the demonstrations (a level of
trust that Nokia's last few flagships have not warranted), there's little that
would impress an iPhone 3GS user 2 years ago.

A pretty phone does not put you in the game anymore. It's staggering how
behind this is compared to the competition, who have advanced tablet
ecosystems, deeply integrated video-calling and messaging, deep cloud
services, massive application libraries, extensive content (magazines and
books), powerful video/photo/audio editing...

------
erikstarck
This is painful to watch. Lesson learned: if you're dumping your platform to
move to another, make sure there are devices built on the new platform
available the day after the announcement.

Bye, Nokia, it was great knowing you.

------
dave1010uk
Nokia have also made a limited edition N950 for developers [1]. The
interesting differences are:

N950 is physically larger and is made out of aluminum, whereas N9 has a
polycarbonate unibody. N950 has a physical slide-out QWERTY keyboard. The N9
is a touchscreen-only device. N950 has a different physical camera module than
N9.

I love the phisical keyboard on my current phone and wish Nokia released the
N950 as a consumer device.

[1]
[http://www.developer.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/3744886f...](http://www.developer.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/3744886f-69c1-4544-8ad3-72b352b4a832/Nokia_N950_OneClickFlashers_Release_Notes.html)

~~~
windsurfer
This sounds great. How can I get one?

~~~
dave1010uk
Not easily. It looks like there's only 250 and you have to apply on a
developer program: <http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3597>

~~~
windsurfer
It looks like it's a standardized dev kit. And the 250 number is for community
developers. "Nokia Developer has more units for partners, champions and
professional developers in general - but they are not on sale. "

------
tjogin
The video featuring Nokia's SVP of design really fascinates me. He introduces
the idea of using touch swipes as something really revolutionary, that
"changes our perception of how we use technology". I'm sure it really would
have been revolutionary, four years ago. Before Windows Phone 7, before
Android, before WebOS and before iPhone.

Of course, it's just a marketing video. But the idea of using touch swipes to
navigate around your smartphone is not even a little bit revolutionary in
2011. It's not new, fresh, remarkable or special in any way. It kind of makes
Nokia look like they were born yesterday; enamored and fascinated with what
they think is "new" technology.

I'm left wondering if what we're seeing in this marketing video is not what
Nokia wants us to think about their new product, but how much of a dinosaur
Nokia really is.

~~~
SandB0x
"This changes everything. Again."

Come on, Steve Jobs spouts this kind of hyperbole at every single product
launch.

~~~
kmfrk
True. FaceTime was touted as a big innovation, when my classmates used video
phones back in 2003. I also went to university with a deaf and mute girl who
used it to communicate with her friends in sign language.

The video cinematography was a bit too Apple-inspired for my taste, though,
but at least it looked professional. Not used to seeing that, at least from
competitors.

~~~
tjogin
I'm not talking about the hyperbole itself, I'm talking about how they're
hyping something everybody else thinks of as common already.

FaceTime would have been kind of like that if everybody had been making video
phone calls every day since four years ago. Most people had never made a
single video phone call, most people still haven't.

Using touch swipes on their phone though, everybody has, every day, for years.
Outside of Nokia, that is.

~~~
MatthewPhillips
I disagree. What Nokia is solving here is true buttonless navigation. No one
else is using swiping in that way. However everyone _is_ trying to go
buttonless. Android has done it in the easiest way, replacing hardware with
software buttons and calling them not-buttons. It has been rumored that iOS
will go buttonless too, but who knows how. WebOS is the only that has kind of
done this. You can navigate WebOS without buttons but it still has a "button"
in the gesture area that most people use anyways. Swipe is the first time
someone has been able to make the OS buttonless in a way that doesn't feel
tacked on. Calling that revolutionary is hyperbole, but it is an important UI
development for where we are inevitably going.

------
wvenable
Nokia produces another slick computer-animated video showing how fast,
responsive, and stable their phones are.

Doesn't anyone remember this:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJpEuMidcSU>

~~~
juhanaj
Here's a hands on:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSZssHGR-Qg>

------
moe
The video on that page was very amusing.

They ripped the style of the Apple product videos so perfectly (all the way
down to an "every once in a while" opening) that it felt like a parody.

I was almost expecting a "One more thing..." in the end.

~~~
encoderer
When in rome... :)

~~~
encoderer
Edit:

Seems there are at least 2 people who find pithy comments not worthy here so
let me expand upon the point in a more verbose way to please them:

If you're Nokia you have zero chance at capturing imaginations with your
products the way Apple does. There is no novel approach their corporate
marketing team can come up with that will rival the winning formula Apple has
produced. Apple's marketing today is probably better suited to the market than
even the Think Different campaign in 1984.

Moreover, Apple has made their bones by contrasting themselves against beige
corporate culture. Nokia is very beige.

Apple has framed the debate on their terms. So Nokia can choose to flail
around in a mediocre attempt to find a different marketing strategy that
works.... Or they can copy the unrivaled, unrelenting market leader. They are
trying to produce a cool, trendy, powerful little smartphone. Why not embrace
the Apple formula as best as you can. You're playing on their turf, so try to
present yourself the way they do.

Or, in other words, when in Rome do as the Romans do.

~~~
thewisedude
First of all, I dont think the analogy is apt. Also, your claim that Apple
seems to be setting terms is not true at all. Android has captured a big
market share and from what I read last time it was more than Apple.

I also think that if you can come up with a phone that adds 'significantly'
more value than an existing phone, it will automatically capture attention.
You dont need imitate the current players in the market.

There have been many examples in the past ( for eg: Google search Vs Yahoo
search ).

But I do think that Nokia phone is really pretty, with pretty good UI features
showcased. But I am not sure if it has the necessary qualities to make users
switch from an existing iphone or android phone. I dont know if it adds
"significantly" move value!

Of course switching between search engines is a lot easier than switching
between phones, so that is also an important factor.

------
natch
Fairly convincingly nice and elegant UI. It clearly owes a lot to iPhone and
iOS, although that is not to suggest that it improves on iOS, and certainly
not on iOS 5, although the maps do look good.

The history feature looks like a privacy nightmare. One swipe away, and
someone who borrows your phone for even a moment can immediately see
everything you've been up to. Where is the empathy for the user? BTW if I let
someone borrow my phone, that means I have already unlocked it for them, but
it doesn't mean I want them to have one-swipe access to everything.

As an aside, next time they should consider having a more likable and less
arrogant-looking person do the talking, and without (apparent) overdubbing. It
came off as slightly creepy.

I'd love to play with one, but I don't expect it to make any dent in iPhone. I
am curious what other cool features it has that didn't make it into the
video... since it's Nokia, we can expect a lot, so they do have my attention
at least temporarily.

~~~
Tomek_
So you'd basically want Nokia to make UI harder to use just because of those
rare cases when someone borrows his phone to the person he/she doesn't trust?

~~~
nodata
That's a very loaded sentence. "Make the UI harder to use" and "rare cases"
and "he/she doesn't trust".

Trust isn't binary.

He doesn't want "instant everything reveal" when someone (a friend? work
colleague?) uses his phone.

------
Geee
There's video for the lazy. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfE3B6L-Otw>

Looks to be pretty incredible HW and UI paired with Linux goodness.

Better intro showing main features live:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LffDQHp5E0>

------
rb2k_
I really don't like the idea of putting all of "my social events" into one
unified screen. I actually do read all of my friend's facebook messages (and I
do add only actual friends). I think I read about 50% of the tweets of people
I follow.

Adding both timelines into 1 view would make me miss a lot of "important"
things

~~~
encoderer
Yeha there's gotta be some easy way to see multiple views (preferably within 2
_easy_ taps). I can't have SMS notifications lost behind 200 tweets and check-
ins and wall posts from 2nd cousins looking for magic potions so they can
raise alpaca's.

------
ansy
Engadget added hands on videos if you want to see a real device in action.

<http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/21/nokia-n9-first-hands-on/>

The UI appears to be extremely smooth. There's also a demo of transitioning
audio from phone to external speaker using NFC.

~~~
gwern
This is not relevant to the OP at all, but I don't see any way to do private
messages in Hacker News, so... A while ago you commented on one of my essays
and I didn't respond: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2479738>

I've expanded
[http://www.gwern.net/Girl%20Scouts%20and%20good%20governance...](http://www.gwern.net/Girl%20Scouts%20and%20good%20governance#cookie-
prices-and-inflation) to hopefully answer your wheat question.

As for your point about building character - I didn't see much of that in my
sister when I was selling boxes with her or in her troop, I don't know how one
would measure this one way or the other, and I don't think I actually
criticized the cookie-selling practice at all, since the focus was on the
price and whether money was being wasted by the organization. (Likewise, I
don't follow your point about advertising. Walmart isn't exactly raking in all
its profits and underselling Girl Scouts by auctioning off the advertising
space on the sides of its cookie boxes.)

------
KleinmanB
The most interesting part is the actual phone function isn't mentioned a
single time in the whole video.

~~~
eco
Why would they waste time showing the phone do what all phones do? I'm pretty
sure everyone assumes it can make calls.

------
yalogin
It looks beautiful and I like the more rounded icons a lot. But I wonder why
the hell is Nokia launching a non-winmo device? People will not find apps for
it and give it bad reviews and Nokia will end up getting even more negative
publicity.

~~~
Geee
There's plenty of apps for it because they're Qt-based like Symbian and most
apps need just retargeting. <http://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/MeeGo/>

~~~
toyg
Because there are so many Qt-based apps for Symbian already, right? Oh,
wait...

------
kumarshantanu
Wouldn't it be difficult to find apps for MeeGo? Compared to iOS, Android or
even Symbian for that matter?

------
zenspunk
Nokia's CTO, Rich Green, on Meego back in February after Nokia announced the
shift to WP7:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISjb9E5A2ls>

That is, this will be their one and only Meego phone, and they want to "get
feedback [for] inclusion in their [WP7 phones]".

This looks like a great phone and OS, and I would actually buy it if Nokia
were going to support it.

But they just don't get it, do they?

~~~
Geee
Why would they put so much effort in it if they are not planning support for
it?

~~~
toyg
You don't know Nokia's SOP very much, do you ? :)

Their production processes are all about cranking out slightly-different
versions of the same hardware/software combinations, as fast as possible, and
market them as "new". Post-release upgrades are basically non-existent, even
when bugs and problems are huge -- this was made very clear by the N97, but
careful observers knew it from well before then. This phone won't have
variations, the platform is commercially dead, so they'll just push it out of
the door and forget about it.

Add to this that the Maemo/Meego line has historically been seen as
"experimental" (i.e. by the time a device shipped, development had long moved
on and backward-compatibility had been broken), even more so now that WP7 is
the name of the game for Nokia, and you can see how little they'll care for
this phone once they have your cash.

~~~
Geee
Yep, I know how they have been doing things. However, things like this
<http://www.developer.nokia.com/swipe/ux/> shows that they have done a bit of
effort on this one. I don't believe they'll gain anything from cutting the
support when they have come this far and actually delivered something which
has selling potential in future too.

------
jwuphysics
I suppose this will be MeeGo's flagship device? Honestly, I don't know if the
mobile OS market has room for another...

~~~
m0nastic
Flagship and Swan Song at the same time.

I don't know how they expect developers to make apps for a platform that
they've publicly stated is only going to have this one phone released for.

I hope I'm wrong though, I still have an irrational fondness for Nokia
hardware and the N-series (I bought and regretted every Maemo device they
sold).

~~~
Geee
They have finally unified the Qt-platform for Symbian and Maemo/MeeGo so it
shouldn't be a problem. They also announced today that Qt will be extending to
S40. Look at the new developer site <http://www.developer.nokia.com/>

~~~
nextparadigms
Weren't they looking to give QT to someone else to continue the support for
it?

~~~
Geee
Definitely not. It's part of their main strategy. I think they moved some
legacy business Qt licensees or related stuff to some other company.

~~~
toyg
Part of what ? They've already announced Qt won't run on WP7.

They've basically offloaded everything-but-developers to Digia [1]; and I bet
Digia will have a big say in what the remaining Qt developers in Nokia will
get to work on.

Qt might be part of their low-end strategy on S40, for big-numbers / low-
profit emerging markets. Considering how iPhones are now immensely popular
even in places like Cuba and how low-cost Android devices are getting ready to
hit those markets, I bet that strategy will soon need revising as well...

[1] [http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/07/nokia-sells-qt-
licensing-...](http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/07/nokia-sells-qt-licensing-
and-services-business-to-digia/)

~~~
Geee
Symbian will live at least to 2016. Who knows what happens during that time.
They also announced that S40 will have Qt apps. They have been pretty clear
about Qt's future I think. I don't know the details of the Digia deal, but I'm
pretty sure Nokia can do whatever they want.

Nokia's new developer site shows pretty clearly their main focuses
<http://www.developer.nokia.com/>

They won't put all bets on WP.

------
dave1010uk
Does anyone know how open this device is? It runs MeeGo but can I do a "sudo
apt-get install bash4" like I can on my N900?

The specs look pretty good but as a flagship device from Nokia, I was hoping
for an HDMI port, MicroSD card slot and FM transmitter.

~~~
i386
and then suddenly the phone is twice as thick and has a lower battery life.

When I look at this phone I think of the famous quote by Antoine de Saint-
Exupry:

"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to
add, but when there is nothing left to take away."

Good work Nokia for not designing a phone by committee.

------
Geee
They introduced a family of NFC paired accessories too,
[http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/06/21/nokia-steps-it-
up-...](http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/06/21/nokia-steps-it-up-a-gear-
with-new-accessories/)

------
jevinskie
I really hope this supports ATT bands for 3G!! I've been pulling my hair out
because the N900 (an awesome phone that I had the pleasure to develop for in
Python + Qt at $work) only supports EDGE on ATT. I will miss the physical
keyboard but I think a real (read: not resistive) touchscreen will work OK.

edit: It does indeed support ATT 3G bands (850 and 1900 MHz):
[http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/11/nokia-n9-hits-the-fcc-
pac...](http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/11/nokia-n9-hits-the-fcc-packs-more-
bands-than-a-rubber-tree/)

~~~
JoshTriplett
On the bright side, AT&T doesn't classify the N900 as a smartphone, so they
don't require a smartphone data plan. :) Hopefully they'll continue to apply
the same logic to the N9: "Does it run iOS, Android, Windows Mobile, or
Symbian? If no, then it isn't a smartphone."

------
desaiguddu
Nokia N9 indeed great device, I classify this device in three ways: Nokia N9 -
Design, Social and Interaction

Design - Unibody Design , and no Home Button/s , Curved Shape Glass, Three
colors

Social - Facebook , Twitter's OS level binding , creates a wonderful Social
Experience without any efforts. Skype , Facebook chat available in built with
Operating System

Interaction - Swipe gesture to access whole phone. Three states of phone Event
Notifications, Applications and Current Application states maintained
wonderfully

------
zmmmmm
I wonder how the swipe task switching gesture interacts with games and other
apps that involve swiping? I have it enabled with Dolphin (browser) and it's
always a bit hit and miss whether the swipe gets picked up by the browser or
as a gesture. I'm sure they can do it better than Dolphin, but still - you
need it to be perfect, I think.

I love the design though - distinctive. Quite promising if they can make
similarly bold designs for their phones running WP7.

------
lyime
Looks a lot like an iPod Nano. <http://www.apple.com/ipodnano/>

~~~
sesh00
I thought this too. And then realised that if Apple were heading down the
"iPhone Nano" path, a design like this would suit that device really well
(albeit a little smaller). Super thin, iPod nano-like, curved screen, vibrant
colour options. I wonder if any toes have been stepped on here.

------
bfrog
Looking at this I have to wonder why nokia ever ditched maemo. This looks
awesome.

~~~
holri
Because managament was abviously stupid. The N900 was already a fine product.

------
jevinskie
Does anyone have experience with getting hardware from their developer
program? I'd like to own and develop for the next-gen MeeGo device and I hear
the N950 (N9 dev device) has a physical keyboard which I would love.

------
JacobIrwin
Phonescoop says N9 Brings MeeGo to Life!

<http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/article.php?a=8360>

------
rowanseymour
Something tragic about watching the live twitter feed on their own product
launch page mostly criticise this phone and MeeGo. I suppose censoring it
would send a worse message.

------
davidedicillo
Looks cute, it's like the what would come out mixing an iPod Nano 2nd gen and
an iPhone. And it's unibody ;)

~~~
mahrain
Yeah, and it's a great competitor against the iPhone 3GS ;-)

------
KeyBoardG
Given the circumstances I think they did a beautiful job with this first
release. Great job.

------
url2png
"All it takes is a swipe". Interesting choice of tagline.

------
newchimedes
I'm not sure if I buy this whole "swiping" is the most important feature. Did
you guys watch the video with the SVP of design talking? He talks about how
swiping eliminates the need for a home key (jab at Apple), and how later you
can swip to show all your active apps "making for the best multitasking
experience" (another jab at Apple)... I wasn't convinced.

~~~
encoderer
Neither was I. But I _was_ intrigued. And interested. Which I suppose is the
point of pre-launch marketing.

------
chrisjsmith
That's actually really nice.

I may even part with my faithful Nokia 6303 for one of these.

------
huhtenberg
How think is it I wonder? Nokia has this strange inclination towards producing
phones that are 25% thicker than they should be to be comfortable.

~~~
juiceandjuice
Going by Engadget, a bit thinner than the iPhone 4 supposedly.

~~~
woobar
30% difference

N9 - 12.1 mm [1]

iPhone4 - 9.3 mm [2]

[1] [http://europe.nokia.com/find-
products/devices/nokia-n9/speci...](http://europe.nokia.com/find-
products/devices/nokia-n9/specifications)

[2] <http://www.apple.com/iphone/specs.html>

~~~
jarek
N9: 7.6-12.1 mm

iP4: 9.3-9.3 mm

~~~
woobar
if you measure iP4 depth at Power button, it will be even less (~3 mm?). Makes
about same sense as 7.6mm for N9.

~~~
jarek
Apple specifies Macbook Air thickness like this [1], so I think it should be
fair game for the N9.

[1] <http://www.apple.com/macbookair/specs.html>

~~~
woobar
I thought that the OP meant actual device thickness, not the marketing tricks
employed by Apple or Nokia.

------
stonemetal
I guess Jobs was wrong when it came to Nokia they were 4 years behind not 3.
My first response was wow someone put an ugly cover on their iPhone, then I
saw the Nokia logo and started to laugh. At least MS had the balls to try
something other than a cheap UI knockoff.

~~~
foobarbazetc
I don't know why you've been down voted to oblivion, but have an up vote. :)

This thing is not even close to Android or WP7, let alone iOS. Swiping is a
feature now? Really? The basis of every phone since 2007 is a great new
feature?

Sigh. :)

~~~
aik
Perhaps there's more to it. One of OSX Lion's main features is "full screen
mode". Hilarious when seen on its own, but potentially unique (we'll see).

~~~
mambodog
"Full Screen Mode" is not really about full screen. It is an attempt to
simplify the concept of virtual desktops, making it more intuitable to
ordinary humans, while also putting applications or tasks into a linear
arrangement so that they may be navigated more easily with multitouch gestures
(task switching).

~~~
aik
Yes exactly -- yet it's called "full screen mode". Exactly my point, thanks.
:)

------
desaiguddu
This move by Nokia has stunned the Smart Phone makers, Apple , Android and
RIM, its wonderful in Design, Social and Interaction.

But there is something more required for any smart phone's success story. On
that front Nokia has failed everytime they have launched exclusive devices.
'CARRIERS'.

Yeah for every success story of Smart Phone, phone carriers play larger role.
But Nokia always had problem in revenue sharing with Phone Carriers. So in USA
and Canada where the larger mass of Mobile phone users who actually afford/buy
these costly and smart devices never played with Nokia Devices.

Where in India and China, lot of local providers offer cheaper mobile phones
with lot of functionalities.

I see carriers major role in success story of Nokia N9, selling unlocked
phones are not preferable for customer.

Another major challenge it may face is convincing small/medium developers to
start building apps for their platform.

~~~
toyg
Nokia has had problems with NORTH-AMERICAN carriers. Everywhere else, they get
along with carriers much better than, say, Apple, and this was one of the
reasons for their demise. One of Jobs' great moves was to explicitly stick two
fingers up at carriers and sell something CUSTOMERS wanted; Nokia was so busy
making telcos happy, they started thinking customers are just a stupid herd
who can be made to buy any sort of crap.

