
Facebook Contractors Must Work in Offices During Coronavirus Pandemic - raybb
https://theintercept.com/2020/03/12/coronavirus-facebook-contractors/
======
whatshisface
> _After The Intercept contacted Facebook, sources said the company deleted at
> least once lengthy thread on the PTO grievances, with one Facebook employee
> saying in the online workplace forum that the deleted post “contained false
> and misleading information about COVID-19 that was causing unnecessary panic
> for some people working in the [Mountain View] office.” This employee added
> that “going forward,” the company “will remove any posts or comment about
> COVID-19 flagged to us that contains misinformation.”_

There you go, anti-misinformation rules being used to delete inconvenient
discussion. At least now we have a specific example to illustrate the free
speech issues associated with trying to curtail the spread of misinformation,
one involving Facebook no less.

~~~
Angostura
> There you go, anti-misinformation rules being used to delete inconvenient
> discussion.

... or possibly misinformation. We haven't seen the thread, so we don't know,
do we?

~~~
agoodthrowaway
I think the GP is suggesting that as soon as you are moderating speech, a
powerful moderating authority can quickly lose trust by deleting discussions.
Or it could be that the moderating authority already is untrusted so deletions
legitimate or not are always suspect.

~~~
asdfasgasdgasdg
The GP is very explicitly saying that the rules are being used to delete the
discussion because it is inconvenient:

> anti-misinformation rules being used to delete inconvenient discussion

But we don't actually know if that's why it was deleted. It's a presumption on
whatshisface's part.

~~~
agoodthrowaway
I think you’ve missed the point now twice. It’s the lack of trust that is the
issue here that leads to that assumption. The lack of trust is the fault of
the moderator not of the GP.

~~~
asdfasgasdgasdg
> I think you’ve missed the point now twice.

I've only responded once so I don't know how you figure I missed the point
twice.

> It’s the lack of trust that is the issue here that leads to that assumption.

The top poster made a claim of fact, that anti-misinformation rules were used
as a front to silence criticism. Whether that fact is true or not is the point
_I 'm_ interested in. I get that you're interested in something else, but I'm
not. You get to be interested in what you want, but you don't get to claim
that the top poster said something other than what they did.

> The lack of trust is the fault of the moderator not of the GP.

Big assumption. If the moderator has acted in good faith and whatshisface
still doesn't trust them, that may say more about whatshisface than the
moderator.

~~~
agoodthrowaway
Sorry but the assumption is on on your part. I’m sorry you can’t see that.

------
octokatt
This is a clear externality caused by having a contracting company between an
employer and employee. Contracting companies are incentivize to increase their
margin by reducing benefits, including maintaining employee health.

If we're going to also start a better discussion about working from home, can
we do the same for the proliferation of second-class contractors? The lack of
health care and sick leave is going to drastically increase the spread of
coronavirus.

To say nothing of employees in retail, food service, and maintenance.

~~~
wuliwong
They are also incentivized to to give benefits to attract skilled people.

~~~
kube-system
Only if the job requires a skilled person.

------
dhosek
At my employer, while WFH was encouraged for employees before Covid-19, it was
explicitly prohibited for contractors. There are some teams where the
contractors do not have the capability to remotely access work systems (when
we had the polar vortex conditions last winter, employees were told to work
from home, contractors were either in the office or took PTO).

Locally (Chicago), I'm seeing a lot of closures (our suburban
schools/libraries/park district all closed effective today, about half the
museums are currently closed), and anecdotally, there have been far fewer
people than usual on the "L" during my commutes. I imagine that it's a matter
of when and not if when the whole company moves to mandatory WFH. Not sure
what will happen with the contractors for whom this is not a possibility.

~~~
dhosek
And the answer to when, it turns out, is Monday. My floor has a bit of a ghost
town this week.

------
sjroot
FTA:

> contract workers stating that, contrary to statements to them from Facebook,
> they are barred by their actual employers from working from home, despite
> the technical feasibility and clear public health benefits of doing so.

Sounds like Facebook should immediately evaluate their relationships with
these contracting companies.

~~~
snoman
Sounds more like there's 2 sets of rules: the ones that Facebook corporate
publishes publicly, and the ones that the contractors are held to, from the
frontline/engagement management.

------
aplummer
> One Accenture employee

Yeah look easy to hate on Facebook, but Accenture is a big company and can
easily send their own staff home to sit on the bench and do business
development or just work on another client.

~~~
kube-system
I believe that these are low-skill content-moderation staff who were hired
specifically for their FB contract. They'll likely be shitcanned if they lose
the contract. Accenture isn't going to run this huge contract into the ground
anyway.

~~~
aplummer
> I believe that these are low-skill content-moderation staff who were hired
> specifically for their FB contract.

I agree it's possible. If there are small consultancies doing the same work
that would happen. Accenture would be more likely to wear it though to avoid
rehire and PR expenses.

My point was that it's on Accenture what they choose to do, a company with
plenty of billions and locus of control - not the client.

~~~
kube-system
It might be. I don't know the terms of the contract, but they may have civil
liability if they choose to do something else.

------
dublinben
At what point can you make an OSHA complaint that your employer is failing to
provide you a safe (disease-free) workplace?

~~~
doitLP
When is your workplace ever certified disease free?

While you’re at it, file a complaint about them making you drive to work in a
car.

~~~
CoolGuySteve
Definitely not during a global pandemic, which is the whole fucking point.

------
JPKab
Wow.

In case anyone doesn't fully grasp how irresponsible this is, these folks can
transmit to each other, and in turn transmit to elderly and vulnerable
populations.

Yet another reason not to use their toxic product.

~~~
sjroot
Facebook is not telling them they have to come into the office. Rather, it’s
the contracting companies that these people actually work for. Quite a
difference, which is clarified in the first paragraph.

~~~
Seenso
> Facebook is not telling them they have to come into the office. Rather, it’s
> the contracting companies that these people actually work for.

Though that's one of the _benefits_ of outsourcing: you get all the benefits
of squeezing your workers to the maximum (which helps the bottom line), while
still having deniability for PR purposes.

Facebook is responsible unless they loudly and publicly order their vendors to
treat their employees better.

------
room505
My workplace is still requiring everyone to come into the office even though
we're all capable of working at home. They're allowing people to work at home
on a case by case basis. What's crazy is that we already get to work from home
one day, every other week. They're obviously telling people to stay home if
they are not well. A lot of my coworkers are upset that higher-ups are not
taking this seriously.

------
btbuildem
Accenture and WiPro

I think at this point it's fair to dox the individual middle-managers and
C-level schmucks, expose them to the consequences of their choices.

~~~
badrabbit
I think doxing is(or should be?) A crime that should have you see jail time,
as is this threat/conspiracy you just posted.

Lawful managemement decisins are fine, the US is not under emergency
officially and there is no direction from the government or CDC asking
employers to make people work from home.

~~~
pixl97
When legality and morality conflict.

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gumby
_Some_ contractors. My gf started as a contractor at FB in January and she is
now working from home and was asked not to come in unless it was absolutely
necessary (she was in yesterday to pick up some gear).

But she's not in moderation or anything; she's a research scientist. So there
may be a class system involved.

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xenonite
Isn't it possible for the contractors to unite and force altogether to let
their individual contracts with Facebook be changed?

~~~
sco1
Hey, that sounds suspiciously like a union.

I'm sure they could, it would probably end up with their contracts being
terminated though. Or maybe not, depending on how strong the PR backlash is.

------
downvoteme1
Looking at the names of the contracting companies , I would guess that most of
the contractors are Indians. As such they are on a visa and their only options
are either keep working or get laid off and go back as you won’t be able to
find another job very soon in this climate.

------
badrabbit
Can't believe HN is on the panic bandwagon as well. Is the CDC recommending
work from home? Is law enforcement? Any public health officials? Law
enforcement? Congress? What authoritative source suggested working from home
at this stage is mandated or even recommended?

What are people smoking. Crowd think sure is scary. I don't like FB and I
think there should be an executive order from the whitehouse requiring anyone
older than 55,immunocompromised (medically verified) or showing cold/flu like
symptoms to be allowed to work from home or receive subsidized paid time off.
But I don't think irrational panic and getting high on fear like this is
healthy. At a macro level,the panic is doing more harm than the disease. At
the individual level there are explicit steps you can take to keep safe, it is
important to not panic yet take every recommended precaution.

~~~
maliker
My office of 500 people is going mandatory remote today until further notice.

Estimates of infection rates are getting up to 50% of the US population. With
the current 1-2% mortality rate thats 1.6 million dead.

Seems like a no-brainer to require work from home to limit the spread of
infection.

~~~
badrabbit
Similar here with wfh. Estimates and stats are fine but I prefer to trust the
experts than play public health expert myself. If someone is being extra
cautious that's fine, but trying to villify for not being as paranoid as you
is silly.

