
Facebook Investor Peter Thiel: Palantir Is The Next Facebook Or Google - garry
http://blogs.forbes.com/oliverchiang/2011/02/28/facebook-investor-peter-thiel-palantir-is-the-next-facebook-or-google/
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jwatzman
I interviewed with Palantir last fall. After failing to impress me (and
honestly coming across as a bit too evil for my taste), I brought my job
decision down to being between two other companies and told Palantir that I
was appreciative of their time but I wasn't interested in any more interviews.
A.G., a senior engineer there -- who I guess has some involvement with
recruiting -- called me up to try and convince me to do an onsite interview.
He told me that while I might have been the smartest person in groups at
college and even at Facebook (where I have interned previously), and thus been
on such a higher plane of thought that I had trouble explaining my ideas to
the lesser peons, "that sort of thing doesn't happen here at Palantir". He
also noted that if I needed more time to make a decision, I could always
accept my Facebook offer and renege on it later if I decided to go to
Palantir. Yeah... asking me to be dishonest while simultaneously insulting all
of my friends and everyone I've ever worked with is _not_ a good way to get me
to join your company. After that and after the Palantir/Wikileaks thing
recently, I'm quite glad with my decision to stay far, far away from Palantir,
"next Facebook or Google" be damned.

~~~
bane
What was it about their vibe that read "evil" during the interview process?

~~~
jwatzman
When I had dinner with a bunch of engineers, they talked about some examples
of things that their code was used for. It assists our military, for example,
in collating data and mining it so that they can more effectively kill people.
They also assist the government with other tasks, such as (by I assume
analyzing tax returns) helping the IRS track down tax evaders. Finally, they
have a new product which helps hedge funds manage unfathomable amounts of
money. None of these things are projects I particularly want to dedicate my
time to.

Aside from this, other issues popped up during the interview process. Their
interviewers were way too impressed with me (which makes me question the
caliber of engineer the interviewer is typically in contact with) and were way
too convinced that their company had "nowhere to go but up" and that their
equity was a sure thing. No company is invincible.

That said, I know people who have interned there and people who work there
full-time now. They are good people, so despite my terrible experiences with
Palantir they aren't _all_ bad.

------
nowarninglabel
What?! First of all, I highly doubt this "PR flap" doesn't create significant
problems for their bottom line. Secondly, why would anyone think an analytics
platform will become the next "Google or Facebook". It's a B2B function, not
an end-user/consumer site. It's not even really a Web 2.0 company, as noted in
the article, the main competition is 20 years old. I seriously question
Thiel's judgement, but will happily eat my hat if time proves otherwise on the
value of it.

~~~
tybris
I think he means it has the same potential market value. Palantir is exactly
the kind of company that we need in the 21st century. One that can can answer
questions about big datasets, be it climate data, market data, corporate data,
social data, etc.

~~~
bioh42_2
_Palantir is exactly the kind of company that we need in the 21st century. One
that can can answer questions about big datasets, be it climate data, market
data, corporate data, social data, etc._

Unless they use Magic to answer those questions, there will be lots of other
companies that can give you the same answers.

------
ebaysucks
1\. Peter Thiel is an investor in Facebook, the platform where 500+ million
people upload all their personal info.

2\. Peter Thiel is major shareholder in Palantir, offering information
analysis to governments.

Just saying...

~~~
scw
For someone who espouses libertarian ideas it does seem strange to be
investing in companies which erode privacy.

~~~
mahmud

      Libertarianism = max$(Wealth, Freedom)
    
             dollar  x  your-freedom  = dollar
      max$ {
             dollar  x  my-freedom    = my-freedom

------
cageface
I think I would have a hard time working in good conscience at a place like
Palantir, no matter how interesting the underlying science might be.

~~~
shawnee_
Palantir presented during a DevHouse they hosted a year or so ago, some of
their statistical trend analysis that implicated a certain cohort of mortgage
lenders in/around Chicago. The results of their findings were pretty much
proof of criminal activity and corruption in some very big names in the real
estate market. The most fascinating thing was that they applied this theory to
one specific geographic area (Chicago); applying it to other areas would
almost certainly have revealed a larger trend.

I was impressed, and even applied there a number of months ago, mistakenly
thinking they are on a mission to do good in the world. Was disappointed by
the rejection email. Given this new information that they are likely using
their findings as a sort of blackmail to sustain evil and corruption at the
source, I'm actually not disappointed. The fact that they are in bed with
entities like Bank of America, J.P. Morgan, _et al_ is very disconcerting.

"Palantir signed a multi-year contract with the bank in December 2009 in the
$5 million to $20 million range, and JPMorgan Chase Chief Information Officer
Guy Chiarello gushes about the company, calling Palantir “the best bet I’ve
made in quite a while.”"

Yeah, $5M is pennies in a hat for senior execs who risk decades of prison time
when/if the realities of the sub-prime lending ever really get exposed.

------
cletus
Palantir is a company well worth knowing about [1] and one TC has written
about like twice in 6 years, despite it being a billion dollar company
actually doing stuff.

Now compare that to all the fawning attention given to Facebook meets Yahoo
Answers that is called Quora....

EDIT: haha wow, it's now become politically incorrect to criticize TC's baby,
Quora?

[1]: [http://techcrunch.com/2010/06/25/palantir-the-next-
billion-d...](http://techcrunch.com/2010/06/25/palantir-the-next-billion-
dollar-company-raises-90-million/)

~~~
jdp23
[http://www.quora.com/Why-do-people-get-voted-down-on-
Hacker-...](http://www.quora.com/Why-do-people-get-voted-down-on-Hacker-News-
for-not-fawning-over-Quora)

------
bane
_Other analysts and companies in the space agree, saying that Palantir’s
revenues were probably around $25 million to $50 million last year...the
market for “situational awareness tools” like Palantir’s is in the tens of
millions of dollars...

But Karp says that he sees a “clear path” to $1 billion in revenue within the
next five years. How close is he to that? Palantir’s 2010 revenue was
“significantly north of $80 million”, said a highly reputable source...

Still $80 million or so is a long way from $1 billion. A lot will depend on
how Palantir expands beyond its cyber-security niche...Palantir has already
been able to line up a number of other top banks and hedge funds..._

[edited for specifics]

Depending on who is right here, analysts or "undisclosed source", it makes me
think that this whole business of supplying tools to the government is not
where they are going to make their fortune. A look at their web page seems to
indicate they sell 2 different products, one aimed at the government and one
aimed at finance. The government product may be close to saturating the market
unless they start to penetrate law enforcement more (there are a _lot_ of
police). Their single deal with JPMorgan is worth something like 20% of their
revenue (depending on how you figure it).

With 330 employees they have to make just south of $70mil/year. If the
analysts are right, they're losing money. If "undisclosed source" is right,
they're _just_ making money. My guess is that the analyst figure doesn't
include the JPMorgan deal. My bigger guess is that a lot depends on how
quickly they can distance themselves from their sketchiness of the last 12
months.

Either way...

"Still $80 million or so is a long way from $1 billion."

I'd say $1billion is a long way to go from Facebook or Google money.

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ajhit406
I don't write for a living, but this might be the worst constructed sentence
I've ever read:

"But recently, Palantir has found itself in headlines for putting together a
proposal, along with HBGary and Berico Technologies, to launch cyber-attacks
and other “dirty tricks” against Wikileaks and its supporters, on behalf of
Bank of America, and against website ThinkProgress on behalf of the U.S.
Chamber of Commerce."

After reading that, I tuned out. All the investment banks are hyping all this
shit to get some underwriting fees on IPOs. 2011 looks to be another big bonus
yr for M&A and IPOs if they keep on successfully getting their HNW individuals
to hype this shit only to tank it off to the common shareholders once it goes
public.

The game is fixed!

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random42
Well, is Facebook the next Google, yet?

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lwhi
I think there are parallels between the art markets and the emerging start-up
markets.

In both of these fields, the actual products created support financial markets
largely supported by opinion.

Both involve gatekeepers who select artists (or start-up companies) as
important. The decisions made by these gatekeepers help to influence each
relevant market.

Both involve attaching value to an artist (or company).

I think the difference is, in the art world - the curation (or moderation)
process has been developed over time to ensure that there aren't too many new
(highly hyped) entrants to the art market at any one time.

Surely, without this kind of restraint, bubbles are likely to develop?

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mildweed
If you can't determine what Palantir is all about by looking at their home
page, they will NEVER beat Google or FB. Right now, the first slide asks the
nebulous question with no answer, "What powers your intelligence
infrastructure?"

Marketing, people. Its not that hard...

~~~
byrneseyeview
Palantir is B2B; it's a different sales cycle. You're not likely to work with
them because you saw the homepage--you'll probably see the homepage after
getting referred to them by an executive you know, getting a cold-call,
reading a whitepaper, etc.

~~~
TheSOB88
If they're B2B they're certainly not the next FB/Google.

~~~
ZachPruckowski
Microsoft is largely B2B - it sells software licenses to OEMs for the
hardware, and licenses to large corporate customers for productivity software
like Office and SQL Server and so forth. Most of Microsoft's sales aren't
people buying Windows in stores.

Salesforce.com is another example of a B2B startup which grew explosively.

~~~
Splines
But Peter Thiel didn't say that Palantir was the next Microsoft, did he?

It appears Palantir is doing well for themselves (although, who knows, maybe
not), but calling themselves the next Facebook or Google smacks of hubris.

------
Torn
"... Of course, Thiel is Palantir’s largest stakeholder, and his venture
capital firm The Founders Fund has bankrolled much of the startup’s initial
costs."

This counts as news?

~~~
vamsee
"Of course..." means they're just trying to fill the gaps in the story for
people who aren't already aware of it (I wasn't).

~~~
Torn
Ah you've misinterpreted my point. I'm not assuming that people know who Theil
is, rather that Palantir's biggest shareholder waxing lyrical in some PR-blurb
article - calling his investment 'the next facebook', no less - counts as news
on HN.

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foobarbazetc
What does Palantir do?

~~~
wnoise
> But recently, Palantir has found itself in headlines for putting together a
> proposal, along with HBGary and Berico Technologies, to launch cyber-attacks
> and other “dirty tricks” against Wikileaks and its supporters, on behalf of
> Bank of America, and against website ThinkProgress on behalf of the U.S.
> Chamber of Commerce.

~~~
bane
Don't forget settling a lawsuit with one of their principal competitors (i2),
conducted under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO,
yes the _same_ law that Mob bosses are charged under, the judge in the case
threw out all of their defenses not to be sued under RICO since what they did
was so brazen) which would have resulted in triple damages -- they virtually
had to settle or go out of business.

[http://venturebeat.com/2011/02/16/palantirs-third-black-
eye-...](http://venturebeat.com/2011/02/16/palantirs-third-black-
eye-i2-lawsuit-settled/)

The initial complaint reads like one of their sales/marketing demos.

Very sketchy company IMHO.

------
fpgeek
Not after the Tolkien estate gets done suing them...

~~~
klbarry
As someone who grew up loving Lord of the Rings, I definitely love the name
they chose. I am curious though, was that all joke or is a lawsuit a
possibility? I know the Tolkien estate is very careful regarding their
copyrights.

~~~
wmeredith
I find it pretty humorous that the company's namesake is generally associated
with corruption and deception through the false promise of great knowledge
and/or power.

~~~
klbarry
I didn't think of that, it's pretty funny.

------
jdp23
A better headline would have been

"Palantir founder and lead investor: we're the next Facebook or Google"

Film at 11.

------
nivals
Been saying this for years! Go Palantir!

------
dougabug
Does the world need another Facebook or Google? How bout a cure for the common
cold or something useful?

~~~
dualogy
Go right ahead kid.

~~~
dougabug
My comment was not really so as glib as all that. We see hundreds of billions
of dollars worth of speculative investments in "technologies", recalling the
heady days of the dot-com era and the now iconic pets.com. Cures for common
viral diseases, while surely not as monumental as daily groupons or facebook
status changes, would be a boon for the billions of people who suffer from
their effects.

Look, a hundred billion dollars is a lot of money. Enough to secure progress
on major scientific fronts. Enough to launch half a dozen Human Genome
Projects. If groupon is worth $15 billion, and facebook is worth $70 billion,
it's not so absurd to wonder if the way we are valuing technological and
intellectual resources has gone off the reservation. Memory of the dot com
bust seems to have completely faded from the valley. The valuations we place
on forms of innovation, intellectual achievement, affect where we are going.

Yes, I would rather pursue the cure for the common cold, flus, and other viral
diseases, even with a low probability of success. The odds of creating the
next Facebook are similarly astronomically low, and even if I succeeded, it
would be less meaningful than even advancing the solution of the former. I
would credit myself if I merely convinced a few smart people that this was a
worthier goal towards which to apply their energies and abilities.

Imagine a world where (more than a few) hackers thought and communicated about
the structure and meaning of dna. Wrote programs which probed protein
structures and revealed their dynamics and interactions. That seems far
fetched now, but decades ago, computers were extravagantly expensive devices
maintained by a relatively small priesthood. The ecosystem of software which
has evolved since the democratization of computing brought about by the
personal computer and Internet revolution represents billions of man hours of
work by smart, dedicated (and even not so dedicated) people. My point is that
hackers can and do contribute a great deal to solving very difficult, truly
important problems, and that we shouldn't be so obsessed with trying to create
the next twitter or twaddle, because twaddling is so ab$urdly overvalued at
the moment.

