

Biggest Risk Factor for Depression: Low Income - techdog
http://asserttrue.blogspot.com/2013/03/biggest-risk-factor-for-depression-low.html

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diego
" We now have strong evidence that a reliable and effective way to reduce the
incidence of depression (and concomitant medical spending) in the U.S. is to
reduce poverty and increase income levels generally."

No, we don't. We don't know if low income causes depression, if depression
causes low income, or if something else causes both. All three may be true for
different cases. You cannot make a statement like "money buys freedom from
depression" willly-nilly. Think of all the possible ways in which depression
could cause low income: you lose your job because you can't get out of bed,
you're not motivated to work and you get fired, etc. Think of all the things
that could cause both: e.g. a crippling accident that leaves you unable to do
your job, and of course makes you depressed.

[The examples above are not hypothetical, I know those people in real life]

All we know is that depression and low income are correlated, but OP's
conclusion is downright irresponsible.

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1337biz
This is one of my biggest problems with social sciences. In my opinion it is
just pure dishonesty, if not outright lying to make such simple, causational
claims on complex phenomenons.

The sad part is, that non-critical media and people are eating this up and
using exactly these kinds of "scientific facts" to advance their ideological
agenda.

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JPKab
Social sciences aren't all bad, and can be used properly. Experimental
economics is an example of a field with very interesting, solid scientific
insights.

Unfortunately, far too much of the social sciences are funded by extrmely
politically motivated and/or sensitive organizations. A big bias I've seen in
social sciences, which is present in this particular case, is an acute and
completely non-scientific aversion to "blaming the victim." There is clear,
and obvious to the layman push to always blame external factors, despite the
obvious and persistent presence of possible internal factors.

Poverty isn't rape. Victims can often times be at least partially to blame for
their state. However, these studies are often funded by sympathetic groups who
are seeking to ascribe external causes whenever possible.

If you have ever known a severely depressed person, I can assure you that they
will find a way to make themselves poor very quickly. I could insert my many,
many family members and friends who have struggled with depression into this,
but it would all be anecdotal. Instead, I'll stay abstract:

1) Depression lowers energy levels 2) Depression drastically inhibits
motivation 3) Depression destroys relationships 4) Depression causes self-
destructive behavior

All of these things, by themselves, will serve to decrease a person's income.
Put them all together and you have a poor person in the making.

Couldn't resist 1 anecdote: My mother was given a very, very generous alimony
(house, car, shitloads of money) by my father. She was depressed. She blew
through it all. Never got off her ass. Self-destructive behavior meant she
drank away her medication's effectivesss. She's been broke (homeless half the
time) for the last 25 years. Poverty didn't cause her depression. Depression
(and lots of bad decisions) causer her poverty.

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tosseraccount
Well. Some nitpicks: low income may not be causing depression, depression
could be causing low income. Secondly, just because low income is correlated
with depression does not mean that there is not a genetic component. Germ-line
genetic variations might also predict low income which causes depression OR
predicts depression which causes low income. Implying that this somehow shows
there is no genetic component is unwarranted.

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ippisl
There's a similar observation at the book the spirit level,by richard
wilkinson who show the link between income inequality and bad results in
numerous health and social attributes. And it really moves the political
inequality debate to a more scientific field , which is nice.

One supposed reason for the link is that inequality(and low status) causes
stress. Which hurts health, causes depression, etc.

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bromang
It does need to be pointed out that the academic literature gives a fairly
poor support for a link between the level of inequality and population health.
For example, the most thorough review (I have seen) of the the research on
this topic finds that "there is little support for a “strong” psychosocial
version of the income inequality–health hypothesis that it [the level of
inequality] is a major, generalizable determinant of population health among
or within rich countries" [1]

[1] [http://www.milbank.org/publications/the-milbank-
quarterly/fe...](http://www.milbank.org/publications/the-milbank-
quarterly/featured-articles/article/2427/is-income-inequality-a-determinant-
of-population-health-part-1-a-systematic-review)

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gamblor956
Flagged as spam. This guy has submitted the same blog (but different posts)
every day this year, and each and every single one of those posts was
demonstrably and incredibly _wrong._

Why do people keep falling for this?

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trotsky
bad blogger

<https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=techdog>

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grimtrigger
The same graph could be shown for AIDS instead of depression, and the same
conclusion could be reached with the same line of logic.

My feeling is that the author doesn't consider depression a medical condition.
I'm not sure if I disagree, but I just thought it would be worth bringing up
the point since many people have different views on what "Depression" is.

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ecmendenhall
Money might buy "freedom from depression," but I suspect it does so by buying
antidepressants and therapy.

I think Robert Sapolsky is on to the best explanation of depression: it's a
disease rooted in biology and genetics, similar to (and exacerbated by)
chronic stress. (Here's a lecture that I'm sure has been posted here before:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc>). Reducing stress can alleviate
the symptoms, but really effective treatments treat depression as a disease.

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xarien
How about something as simple as lack of emotional support? How does one
actually place a price tag on a true confidant?

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Bryan22
No shit? someone had to do a study to figure out broke people are more
depressed than rich people? I should be a journalist.

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woodchuck64
financial hardship probably causes depression, but low-income does not
necessarily cause financial hardship unless you live beyond your means (or
make below the poverty line).

