
MacBook Pro 16 Has a Fan Problem - hellofunk
https://om.co/2020/01/31/macbook-pro-16-has-a-fan-problem/
======
ridiculous_fish
`sudo powermetrics` will tell you die temperatures. It's possible the author
has a bad sensor, in which case the fans will ramp to max whenever the machine
is not asleep.

FWIW I run the same machine (except 32 GB) and a 4k external display. It's
silent when idle (~45C) and quiet even when loaded (~97C).

~~~
O5vYtytb
> quiet even when loaded (~97C).

Yikes, that seems like an issue on its own. It's generally not good for parts
to get that hot regularly.

~~~
hnuser123456
Apparently, intel accepted that laptops will just never have decent cooling,
so they let the high power chips get right up to 100C and throttle based on
how much cooling is available.

If your laptop CPU is at 100C and the fans are quiet, you're wasting a lot of
performance potential.

~~~
eptcyka
The chips themselves will probably outlast their users or at least their own
useful lives quite comfortably at 100°C. If sat on a desk, not in something
mobile.

Heat cycling the motherboards will definitely shorten their effective lifetime
significantly. There's no reason not to have proper cooling.

Having said that, modern Thinkpads are not great in this regard either.

------
intopieces
32GB+2TB here, with TB3 RAID and XDR. No fan issues. I understand the author's
frustration but extrapolating a single defective unit to "Apple doesn't care
about QC anymore" is sort of bonkers.

~~~
bump-ladel
Also 32GB/2TB/2.4GHz_i9, no noticeable fan problems.

~~~
vr46
Loaded 64g/2t/2.4/5500 8g - and zero issue with fans.

------
packeted
I have the base model MBP 16 inch and I've been experiencing slow downs with
laggy keyboard input, momentary freezes, etc. Battery life is also not as good
as on my old MPB 13 and I don't use it for much more than browsing with many
tabs. I've done plenty of troubleshooting and a reinstall but no luck.

I'm hoping that 10.15.3 which I installed yesterday will help remedy.

~~~
johnydepp
This happened to me a year back. Turned out there was an issue with SATA cable
connecting SSD. Replacing the cable resolved it. Saying just in case!

There could also be an issue with your SSD or HDD. To come to a conclusion try
putting your SSD to another MB and see wheres the issue

~~~
culturestate
> To come to a conclusion try putting your SSD to another MB and see wheres
> the issue

The SSD is soldered directly to the logic board, so that may not be a viable
strategy.

~~~
ulfw
It’s also not SATA. Not that it matters.

------
bangonkeyboard
There are some reports of this week's macOS 10.15.3 update drastically
reducing performance in 16" MBPs, which previously crashed under load:
[https://mjtsai.com/blog/2020/01/28/macos-10-15-3/#comment-31...](https://mjtsai.com/blog/2020/01/28/macos-10-15-3/#comment-3159443)

If this is due to the processor being overstressed, Malik's fan issue may be
related.

------
zitterbewegung
64GB 8GB Video card 1 TB SSD

I think you should bring your computer in for service. I haven't had a fan
problem when I have used the computer.

You can also try disabling turbo boost. See [http://www.rugarciap.com/turbo-
boost-switcher-for-os-x/](http://www.rugarciap.com/turbo-boost-switcher-for-
os-x/)

~~~
comboy
Why is everybody in this thread providing their RAM and SSD size like it's
relevant but no info on whether they upgraded their CPU or not? Issues seem
relatively common but I can't find info on whether it only happens to those
who upgraded the CPU.

~~~
dep_b
It’s safe to assume that people took the model closest to their desired specs
and then added RAM or disk space. In this case it’s always an i9.

------
KenanSulayman
My 16 inch MacBook with a i9 2.4 GHz has a significantly better battery
performance than my 2016 i7. It’s also so silent I can hear high pitch sounds
from the RasPi4 lying next to me.

A very different problem that’s almost never discussed is the fact that you
cannot always plug two different displays via TB3 in, one on the left and one
on the right, without triggering some bug that doesn’t correctly enable the
respective other display until the cable is removed and 20 or more seconds
waited until it’s plugged in again. That’s been the case for the 2016 and my
current 2019 model, and it’s been the case for everyone in my team with two or
more displays via TB3.

~~~
bencoder
I've always had problems with external displays on macbooks. Particularly when
using 2, regardless of hdmi or TB, but even a single display sometimes refuses
to work without repeatedly unplugging and retrying. Never explicitly tried
leaving for 20 seconds though, I'll try that next time

~~~
todd8
This is something that has puzzled me for a long time. Why is it so difficult
for monitors to simply turn on when the devices they are plugged into turn on?

Right now I own a high end LG TV from a couple of years ago and it won’t wake
reliably when I turn on the Apple TV device attached to it. Sometimes, but not
always, it requires both the TV remote and the separate speaker bar remote in
addition to the Apple TV remote. Occasionally, to get a picture I even resort
to restarting the Apple TV by unplugging it.

In my office, my monitor on both my new Mac Mini and on my Linux box both
flash up a screen for about 2 seconds then turn off and the a second later
turn back on. This happens every time they wake from sleep.

It just seems strange that with all the technology inside these devices that
the first impression they make looks like some senior design electronics
project powering up.

------
Arete314159
I am really hoping to keep my macbook, the One True macbook, Macbook Pro 2015,
and that it will last and be healthy until apple finally starts making stuff
that doesn't break again.

~~~
chipotle_coyote
Nearly everyone else in this thread is saying that their 16" MBP is fine. My
roommate has one -- I'm not sure it's completely maxed out, but it's pretty
hefty spec-wise -- and hasn't had any issues, either.

Personally, I just don't want a laptop that big -- I've always preferred the
13" models to the 15". So I'm waiting to see what happens with both the 13"
MBP and the Air.

~~~
shishy
Is there any word on whether they'll release this in 13"?

I'm still holding out on my 2015 MBP as well, hoping to get the new 13" with
the good keyboard.

Otherwise... surface book it is...

~~~
chipotle_coyote
Apple almost never pre-announces products, so we don't really _know,_ but
they've strongly hinted the new keyboard is coming to at least the 13" MBP in
the next revision. I don't remember the exact phrasing, but it was a comment
from VP Phil Schiller something like "it's important for all our 'Pro'
products." (I remember it was something that made it unclear whether the
keyboard will come to the Air, although I certainly hope it will.)

I did see the comment from someone saying it'll be upgraded to a 14" the way
the 15" became a 16"; while that's a reasonable guess, I don't think there are
any supply chain rumors supporting that yet, and the 16" update had rumors
nearly a year in advance of its release. My personal expectation is that we'll
see an upgrade to the new keyboard in the 13" before WWDC, but it'll stay 13".

------
nwienert
Anyone else getting horrible battery life under heavy use? Doing Xcode builds
that aren’t crazy I’ve seen crazy stuff like a 1.5 hour total battery on my
recent flight.

~~~
rorykoehler
Battery life hasn't been great. ~6 hours when doing dev work. Was expecting
more.

------
KarlKemp
I‘m not the proverbial fanboy (pun entirely intended), but I seem to remember
similar headlines for just about any new MAC of the last two decades. And the
issue often seems to be caused by the initial run of the Spotlight indexer.

The author could have also maybe taken a look at what’s actually causing his
problems with a simple click on the standard-issue system monitor. Not doing
so is either disrespecting his readers, or just gross incompetence of the kind
that doesn’t go well with his long-winded claims of being "professional“.

~~~
neighbour
The three things that usually kill performance and make the fans go ape on new
Macs are: \- Initial Spotlight index; \- Initial iCloud Drive sync; \- Initial
Photos sync.

My last three macs have had the same experience.

------
ehayes
32GB+1TB here, I haven't experienced anything I'd call a fan issue. Every once
in a while fans spin up, mostly because of Chrome-based things. A few times I
think it's been heavy GPU activity. I use it connected to 2 monitors (display
port) most of the day. It's completely silent most of the time.

I've experienced more issues with what I'm guessing is Catalina or driver-
related bugs. Once when disconnecting my monitors I got RGB "static" on the
MBP screen, had to force power down. Another time the touch bar quit working
due (I think) to an external monitor plugged in. A restart solved that.

------
birdyrooster
No fan problem here. Works silently while browsing or doing other simple tasks
like iTerm and vscode.

The author of the blog should seek technical assistance for his hardware.

~~~
jez
Same here. I pretty regularly use my 16” to play games and compile C++; I’ve
never noticed the fans operating higher than normal. The author mentioned
external monitors: I have it plugged into an LG27850-W (27” @ 4k UHD) and it’s
never been a problem.

The one thing that does bother me: I have a hardware USB switch that Catalina
doesn’t recognize properly (works fine on Mojave).

------
jcoletti
No such issues with MBP 16" here, unless of course there's a misbehaving
process. I have noticed Catalina's new iOS device syncing can spin out of
control if the device being synced disconnects or goes out of range before
finishing. There's an "AMPDevicesAgent" or similar process that pegs the CPU
at 100% when this happens and wreaks havoc on Finder, Music, etc.

------
weystrom
It's the GPU. There's a huge thread on Apple's forums about fan noise with
connected external display:
[https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250878229](https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250878229)

------
sudhirj
I’ve got one, and the only time this happened was a rouge process that I
installed using 100% CPU. I usually just open Activity Monitor and either sort
the CPU tab by usage or the Energy tab by Average Impact. If it’s a software
problem it’s going to be there.

~~~
sixothree
First thing I did was search the article for the words activity monitor.
Nothing. Moving on.

------
chubs
If i'm not mistaken, he indicates he's running the 6k display from it. That
would likely be the cause: That's a lot of pixels to push from a mobile GPU.

~~~
pier25
The CPU temps increase by at least 10ºC whenever you plug something to the TB
port. I've seen this happen on my last 4 Macs with TB. Not only monitors but
SSDs too.

~~~
chubs
SSD's even? That's amazing. They shouldn't draw much current, and certainly
shouldn't use much CPU.

~~~
pier25
Yep. Happened to me a couple of months ago on my iMac 5K with TB3. I guess
it's because the TB controller is off when nothing is plugged.

------
yayr
I'm a fan of using iStat Menus to see what's stressing CPU and causing
temperature rise. It enables you to put the main sensors (like CPU temp, Watt
usage, CPU speed) into the menu bar and see the cause with a quick mouse over.
[https://www.bjango.com/mac/istatmenus](https://www.bjango.com/mac/istatmenus)

------
_ph_
I don't have a MBP 16, but a late 2015 MBP and an iMac of the same age. My MBP
can be completely silent or annoyingly noisy, depending on a lot of factors.
Generally, it seems to get noisy even when being relatively idle, if the room
temperature goes beyond approx. 23C. Below that it stays silent unless loaded,
above that, even small loads create constant fain noise. Interestingly, my
iMac has roughly the same behavior, hinting to a common design parameter of
the cooling systems.

With load, of course the activity monitor is the friend. Far too often, web
pages manage to put load on the machine, even if they appear to be idle. In
firefox, use the task manager to find the biggest offenders. Sometimes just
reloading them reduces the load.

One big influence factor unfortunately not shown in the activity monitor is
the GPU load. Just plugging an external 4k screen into my MBP causes the fans
to spin up. This is also a good reason for web pages to create fan noise

~~~
danaris
You can actually get Activity Monitor to show GPU load history in a separate
floating window—I think it’s under the Window menu? If you poke around (and
you’re on a recent enough OS version) you’ll find it.

~~~
_ph_
Thanks, that was a good tip. It is indeed in the window menu, together with
the per-cpu monitor, which I didn't know it existed either - and that being a
Mac user since 2003.

------
bdcravens
I've had some serious fan action on mine, and then about a week ago, the
machine was seriously hot when I got home after my transit commute. Tried to
take it out of my bag, but I couldn't. I literally had to get a pot holder to
handle it. I was fearful I'd see melting or something when I opened it - but
it quickly returned to normal.

~~~
klagermkii
The hot bag thing is a pain and has so many different reasons. I've been
caught out with it in the move from a 2012 rMBP to a 2019 16", where on the
old one if I was connected to WiFi/tethered and I had SSH sessions open in
Terminal they would just die when I put the laptop to sleep. On this new one
it will keep Dark Waking the machine in my bag in order to prevent my SSH
connection from closing.

~~~
_ph_
I keep switching off Wifi before putting my MacBook into a bag for longer
time. Seems otherwise, it might try to run some updates during the night,
which it shouldn't do when being in the bag. Switching off Wifi seems to
prevent that.

------
icanhazML
Using three models of Apples flagship over the past three years, I don’t think
this is a case uniquely restricted to the authors machine. All Macs with
thunderbolt 3 (the slimmed down form factor) seem to have processors that
don’t like hot/humid climates a lot. When I’m home in the US, things are fine,
but while traveling on work to places in Asia like Singapore I need to be in a
room with air conditioning and good ventilation near the machine or the fans
simply kick into high gear.

I made a conscious choice to avoid the top of the line i9 and chose the i7
instead for the last of the 15 inch Pros (mid 2019) looking at the thermal
rating on Intels website (45w vs 60-something if I remember correctly)

The 16 inch ones are simply ridiculous with this. Even at home in the US, I
have a desk fan pointing at the machine alone so it doesn’t heat up too bad.

------
heavymark
His post is missing one important word, “My” before MacBook.

------
hooch
I don’t have any such problem with 32gb and 1TB, and I push it pretty hard.

Author doesn’t reveal how many TB of SSD he configured, but maybe powering
64GB of not-LPDDR and lots of TB of SSD is what sets the fans off.

~~~
ghc
I have one with 64GB and 1TB SSD. Running multiple linux VMs in WMWare Fusion
right now and it's silent. The fans only really get loud when I'm compiling.

------
sdan
From all the Mac horror stories I’ve heard, it’s only making me realize by
bottom of the line 2016 mbp w/o touchbar is abnormally amazing.

I currently have 15 windows, 10 chrome windows, around 200 tabs, 20 sublime
text boxes, and a ton of other apps open(and plugged into an external monitor
besides the Laptop screen itself)

Keep in mind I have a 8gb, 2.0 ghz laptop and is running all this. Sometimes I
do get a kernel panic (forcing me to shutdown) but otherwise, I have
absolutely no problems. It’s so surprising how my machine is able to handle
all this.

~~~
Matthias247
My (horror) story with that model: goes to 50% battery within an hour. Then
just turns off without notice.

My personal 2015 model does not (yet) have this problem.

------
yellow_lead
This post is complete trash. I'm wondering if this is only on the front page
because it takes a shot at a big tech company?

Help, I'm using CPU intensive apps on my laptop and the fan is coming on!
Okay, and the sky is still blue?

I'm sorry but I just can't stand this post. One thing that may help the author
that I don't see mentioned here is plugging it in. Seems running off AC power
is less thermally intensive than battery.

~~~
netsharc
> Help, I'm using CPU intensive apps on my laptop and the fan is coming on!

If you had read it properly he said one time he had just booted it and had 3
Apple apps running (Mail, iMessage, and something else) and the fans were
still loud. He says he'd understand if he had Photoshop open with many
layers...

~~~
ksec
Not even sure why you were downvoted. I have who ever downvoted you should
provide explanation for your perfectly acceptable answer.

------
tmarsden
Good performance, good portability, good thermals. Pick 2. It’s that simple,
you can’t have all 3 no matter how much money you throw at the problem.

~~~
tosh
iPad Pro 11"

[https://browser.geekbench.com/ios_devices/57](https://browser.geekbench.com/ios_devices/57)

~~~
tmarsden
Not exactly great performance. The multi core score puts it on par with an
Intel Core i5-8400.

------
mar77i
Oh, I've seen something similar recently. Not sure which macbook it was, but
apparently, at least in some cases, Apple appears to be subscribing to the
great benefits of placebo ventilation.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiCBYAP_Sgg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiCBYAP_Sgg)

------
jnwatson
It isn't a "fan" problem, it is a heat or perceived heat problem. It is either
a temperature sensor, a problem transferring heat from the CPU or GPU, or a
defect in the CPU or GPU (probably one of the first two).

Given the number of complaints, I'd wager the first or second.

------
FpUser
..."In three years, the iPad will be more robust, Adobe Photoshop for iPad
will be here — and for all I know, AI will just edit my photos for me in the
cloud..."

AIs will just make make their own photos. The cloud does not need you.

------
jedisct1
16" MBP here, and I don't have any fan issues with it. The fans get loud when
I push it hard, such as video rendering or export of photo collections, but
other than that, the laptop is quiet and responsive.

------
beaugunderson
Good to have confirmation of this; my 16 sounds like it's trying for vertical
takeoff constantly. I resorted to disabling Intel Turbo Boost to get some
relief.

------
bobm
So what does activity monitor or ‘top’ tell you is running? My 16 runs quiet
unless I’m compiling and I run multiple vms and am impressed with how it runs.

------
bouke
Mine is also running hot with serious fan noise when Windows running in a VM.
This was not the case for all my previous MacBooks.

------
stevedekorte
I've had my MacBook Pro 16" for several months and haven't noticed any fan
noise at all.

------
mgarfias
32gb, the beef grafix card and 2tb ssd and the lg 27” 5k display here with No
fan issues.

------
webbdev
2.4GHz 8-core, 64GB, 2TB, 5500m 8GB, external LG 5k display, no fan problems

------
coldfire
been using the 2019 version that I got from work for a couple of weeks now,
haven't noticed anything. I run a heavy Docker based setup on MacOS, the fans
do make noise but that's about it.

------
phonon
i9-9880H (45 W) + AMD Radeon Pro 5500M (50 W) + 64 GB RAM (5 W) + 1+ TB SSD (5
W) + screen (10 W?) + fans, T2, wifi/BT, Thunderbolt, (5W?) = ~120 W

Maybe a lower specced model would do better...

------
Koshkin
I am reading this on a 6-year old ThinkPad I fished out of a dumpster a few
days ago. It does not have a fan problem.

------
jacobsenscott
No problem here.

------
tony
If you happen to be in the same spot for a few months, I highly recommend
building your own PC.

More information on why laptops don't work:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=947op8yKJRY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=947op8yKJRY)

I've been through so many laptops. After I tried a desktop in 2019, I can't
seriously consider a laptop, unless in a pinch. Even so-called "beefy"
workstations, e.g. W series Thinkpads, I've returned. They throttle too.

You want to know what beats a $3500 Macbook Pro? For me, a desktop with "ok"
parts and water cooling.

You'll never have a fan issue. You get to use high quality parts that are
replaceable with their own warranty.

Even the cables are super high grade. And you still come in at a third of the
cost, slightly more than half the cost if you want to splurge.

You'll never have slowdowns. You can power multiple 4k monitors, ultrawides,
whatever you want.

It boils down to keeping all these parts in a small chassis. If Apple cared,
they'd stop the soldering and add an inch and half thickness and let the thing
ventilate, because these things are built for consumption, not creation (e.g.
being under an intensive rendering/compilation/io workload).

~~~
petersellers
You don't even need watercooling for really good thermal control on a desktop.
Companies like Noctua make CPU fans that are just as effective, quieter, and
are less complex than watercoolers (and I say this having built a watercooled
system in the past year).

Watercoolers do have fans, so not only can you run into potential "fan issues"
but you can also have a "pump issue" on top of that.

~~~
Matthias247
+1 on that. High quality air coolers are great options. They can still be
super silent and are nearly maintainance free. I had higher end thermalright
fan cooler on my old desktop and it run without issues for 6 years with
multiple hours per day usage. For my new desktop I invested in a be quiet dark
rock pro and hopes it will do the same. Noctua also has great options, and
other companies too. But don’t try to save too much on coolers. The lower end
models might be cheaper, but having to deal with less noise is so much worth
50$ extra over a couple of years.

