
Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health - uptown
https://sixcolors.com/post/2020/04/apple-battery-health-management/
======
wrs
I've noticed that on newer (past few years) MacBook Pros, if their battery
runs down too far they refuse to start up, even when plugged into the charger.
The battery has to charge for 10-15 minutes with the "dead battery" icon on
the screen. It's exactly the same behavior as iPhone/iPad. In past MacBook
models, the battery could be dead--or even completely removed--and the charger
would power the laptop fine.

Anyone know why this extremely irritating change had to be made?

~~~
ratww
I've been explained that this is because those computers might need more power
than the AC Charger is able to provide, so the battery is also used as a
"backup" for burst loads. This [1] seems to confirm it.

[1]
[https://web.archive.org/web/20081225111200/http://support.ap...](https://web.archive.org/web/20081225111200/http://support.apple.com:80/kb/HT2332)

~~~
philwelch
This probably goes hand in hand with the unremovable batteries. Back when they
had removable batteries you could run it on AC with no battery installed and
it would work fine.

~~~
Polylactic_acid
No, thats purely to prevent repair. Its perfectly possible to have a removable
battery and to just not boot when one is not inserted. Thats how phones used
to work ~2013

~~~
closeparen
A removable battery requires its own protective shell, which costs weight and
thickness. When it's not user serviceable, it can just be a bag of acid
resting on the main board, piggybacking on the device's own case for the
required protection.

~~~
Polylactic_acid
The protective shell can be only the bottom side which replaces the bottom of
the case. The internal laptop batteries are quite safe to handle if you don't
use anything sharp on them. We let people handle phone batteries for ages and
they weren't nearly as protected as those old laptop battery tubes.

~~~
lloeki
They were certainly more protected than the almost naked ones I see right now
which I can singlehandedly bend (but won't given the fire hazard). And not
LiPol batteries too, which are super nasty in that regard: the more energy-
dense the battery is, the more of a hazard.

------
rubber_duck
I got a top spec 15 MBP a year ago and I have to say the experience is
appalling - 4000$ device that goes full airplane takeoff levels of noise at
any serious workload, no ability to control performance (I would gladly
throttle the CPU sooner to avoid everyone in the office turning my way when I
start an emulator or keep the fans at lower RPM but constantly instead of
letting the CPU idle at 60-70 degrees with no fans).

All of this could be fixed if the device gave me power settings but even third
party paid tools that require custom kernel extensions (Volta) still don't
work reliably.

My next computer is not going to be from Apple for sure.

~~~
vpEfljFL
Laptops isn't designed for serious workloads. It's a small portable devices to
hash some errands at starbucks. You can't change physics laws unfortunately to
make all the heat disappear somewhere.

Keep in mind Intel marketing as well which advertises CPU with way less heat
than they expose in real life.

The way you have this machines is because apple is commercial company and they
should follow market demands.

"10 cores", "silent": you can only choose one.

If you want a reliable silent machine, use the proper tool for the job. I.e.
mac mini / imac. There is the only way to get proper cooling. You can't have
silent cooling in your laptop. Especially if it's "a top spec".

~~~
derefr
_In theory_ , laptop manufacturers that use aluminum in their chassis could
just put the CPU die right up against the chassis, Remove the bottom feet, and
then tell you to only ever use it sitting on top of a table designed to
function as a top-down heat pipe (i.e. the kind they use to make “scraped”
frozen yoghurt.) The table would become the CPU’s direct-contact heatsink.

Not practical at all, of course, but this is well within the laws of physics.
(And people do lesser things all the time, using e.g. those laptop “cooling
stands” with clearance and fans built in.)

~~~
BenjiWiebe
It would be practical to at least have some form of heat transfer to the case
for passive cooling advantage, but this can have the downside of the end user
getting burned/uncomfortable and saying, Why does my computer get so hot?

The recent metal-cased RTL-SDR's from rtl-sdr-blog have this "problem". The
metal case actually helps the chip run cooler, but it gets hotter to the touch
then the early insulating plastic models.

------
diebeforei485
So many people on here seem to be intent on micromanaging their device's
battery. IMO the whole point is to let macOS handle it so you can focus on
actual work.

I know Apple has screwed up in the past with throttling iPhone CPU's (bad). At
this point they know not to go to those lengths again.

~~~
anamexis
The only thing they screwed up on was not telling people they were throttling.
They're still doing it (which is good).

~~~
kohtatsu
To be fair that's a pretty big thing to screw up. I commend Apple for a lot
(see my last 3 comments), but I think they cross the line of too-voodoo too
frequently. I think they'd do well to dispel more magic.

~~~
askafriend
That "issue" was way overblown.

Apple's change did the right thing. It fixed a ton of older phones which
before were rendered unusable since they would experience random shutdowns due
to naturally degraded Li-Ion batteries.

Every manufacturer should implement the kind of fix Apple did (and I'm sure at
this point, they have).

They even mentioned the change in the original release notes for the iOS
update.

~~~
Polylactic_acid
It wasn't the right thing. People thew out their phones because they were slow
not knowing they could have been fixed cheaply with a new battery.

~~~
askafriend
Apple has offered battery replacements for years before they rolled out that
patch.

Replacing the battery would have fixed the issue at any time. It's not like
they were holding it back.

~~~
mthoms
They _were_ holding it back. That's what the several hundred million dollar
lawsuit they settled was about. And their public apology. And the hundreds of
articles in the tech press.

Apple's own front-line staff (ie genius's) were not informed of the
throttling. So if you complained of a slow phone you were told you were
imagining it, or it was an inevitable part of the newer more complex OS
upgrades.

At any rate, you were told there was nothing you could do.

~~~
askafriend
I think people apply a double standard when talking about Apple since they are
the de-facto industry leader. The battery degradation issue is something that
affects nearly all Li-Ion battery powered devices.

This includes all Android phones, PC laptops, etc.

People have such low expectations of the other products by default that no
standards are applied and no quality is expected.

This is the issue. We apply (rightfully so) a far higher standard when
assessing the industry leader (Apple) but we apply no standard at all to the
competition which frequently gets away with the same kinds of issues (and also
issues that are much much worse).

~~~
mthoms
I think what you're saying overall is true to a small extent due to how Apple
have positioned themselves. But this ...

> we apply no standard at all to the competition which frequently gets away
> with the same kinds of issues (and also issues that are much much worse)

... is total BS. Google and Samsung are never, ever, given a free ride when
they mess up. Come on. Let's not be hyperbolic.

> The battery degradation issue is something that affects nearly all Li-Ion
> battery powered devices. This includes all Android phones, PC laptops, etc.

Irrelevant. It's not a question of whether the throttling is a valid solution
to a technical limitation (it is). The problem is that (a) there were no major
manufacturers throttling CPU speed due to battery health in phones, tablets or
laptops before this. It was not a known practice. And (b) since Apple actively
hid the throttling from everyone, including it's own employees, very few
people were aware that a simple battery replacement would bring the phone back
to like-new performance.

You seem to have gone from outright falsehoods - _" They even mentioned the
change in the original release notes for the iOS update"_ to
mischaracterisation _" Replacing the battery would have fixed the issue...
It's not like they were holding it back."_ and now you've moved on to "what
about the other guys!?" deflection.

It puzzles me how some people will so blindly defend Apple without critically
looking at the facts. Just admit it was a mistake and looked really, really
bad.

Apple has. Why not you?

And for the record, I'm a very happy Apple customer. I've used their computers
exclusively since 2005 and their phones exclusively since 2010. I rely on
their products and ecosystem to earn a living. But I'm not blind and I'm not
stupid.

~~~
askafriend
> You seem to have gone from outright falsehoods - "They even mentioned the
> change in the original release notes for the iOS update"

It was in the note as far as I'm aware. You're saying that as if I'm trying to
spread misinformation. I don't appreciate that at all. It's very rude.

> mischaracterisation "Replacing the battery would have fixed the issue...
> It's not like they were holding it back."

That's not a mischaracterization. You absolutely could have gotten your
battery replaced. There were even tons of 3rd party services that were
offering battery replacement along with screen replacement. It's not like it
was some sort of dark secret or as if they banned you from replacing your
battery.

> and now you've moved on to "what about the other guys!?" deflection.

I think people should be angry that other manufacturers weren't doing anything
to extend the life of their batteries. I see that as worse than using
techniques to manage battery life (which the operating system is doing at all
times by the way - same with your GPU).

~~~
mthoms
It's a mischaracterization because as you've been informed, there was no known
connection between CPU speed and battery health. Even among Apple employees.

So while your statement is technically true, it's irrelevant and misleading.
Of course battery replacements have always been available! How does that
change anything at all? You aren't addressing the central accusation (which is
the secrecy). You aren't bringing anything new or interesting to the
discussion.

Sorry, if I've been rude. But you've been corrected a couple times without
acknowledging it, and continue being slippery by arguing a position without
addressing the core accusation. I wouldn't say that's rude but it's
frustratingly bad etiquette.

>I think people should be angry that other manufacturers weren't doing
anything to extend the life of their batteries. I see that as worse than using
techniques to manage battery life

Sure. I've never owned another smartphone and can't comment on how those
customers feel. You're probably right. At any rate it's not relevant to how
Apple treated its own customers is it?

Try to reply while addressing the central accusation. That the throttling
itself is a perfectly valid solution but it was wrong to not inform consumers
it was happening. That it was wrong to have customers with $700 phones and
$100 AppleCare be told by Apple Genius's that they were imaging the slowdown
and nothing could be done... except buy a new phone.

Now, I'm not 100% convinced Apple had nefarious intentions in withholding the
info from staff and customers. But, neither you, nor I, will ever know that.
All we have to go on, is the facts of what happened and how people were
treated. It seems like a black and white, open and shut case to anyone
objective. People were lied to, plain and simple. How can you defend that?

------
cmckn
Why doesn't the UI report 80% as 100%? It seems like exposing this to the user
is more confusing than anything, when the cells could be over provisioned and
treated politely by a system controller, without the user being part of the
decision.

Aren't SSD's over provisioned in this manner? You sell a drive with a terabyte
of storage, but actually ship more than a terabyte of chips in the case to
accommodate degradation over the life of the device.

~~~
chipotle_coyote
> Why doesn't the UI report 80% as 100%?

Because the last time they tried "silently manage the battery without the user
being part of the decision" it didn't go over real well?

~~~
outworlder
That wasn't even managing the battery, per-se(although it is power management,
it wasn't strictly about health). It was reducing clock speeds to extend the
amount of time the device would be on. They _still_ do it even if the device
has a healthy battery: drain the phone to 1% and you will see. Rather than
running at full blast and shutting down, you can extract more runtime.

Some EVs do something similar: the Nissan Leaf, when the battery gets really
low(and I mean it, far past the point where you lost all percentage and
mileage indicators), will enter a reduced power mode (or popularly called
"turtle mode"). This allows it to eke out a few more miles out of an otherwise
mostly dead battery. There is a "turtle" that lights up on the screen, maybe
Apple could just do that.

Turns out batteries hate when they are almost empty and you are trying to
extract full power from them, voltage drops even more. So there are some
compromises that have to be made.

~~~
NickNameNick
The problem was the phones battery couldn't deliver enough current to run the
cpu at full power, even though it had charge remaining to run the phone for
some period of time in a lower power mode.

Without power management, when a high demand task came alone and the CPU tried
to draw more power, the phone would crash or shut-down.

The firmware update capped performance not to extend the run-time when the
batteries were low, but to allow the phone to run reliably when the batteries
were worn.

------
rb808
Its amazing how dumb most charging is for smart devices. I plug my phone in
every night and it does a quick charge then sits there and does nothing the
rest of the night. It even knows my alarm clock time, surely it should be
smart enough to slowly charge all night.

~~~
floatrock
It's not necessarily that it's dumb, there's a bit of battery physics and
chemistry involved. If you look up EV charging curves for example [1], the
first bit goes fast and the last bit slows down. A rough analogy I've heard is
it's like blowing up a balloon -- as it gets bigger, there's more back-
pressure so it gets harder to fill up the last bit. That's why the EV roadtrip
strategy is "frequent fast-charging" \-- you spend less time if you recharge
from 10% to 60% twice instead of going from 10% to 100% once (also safer to
take driver breaks).

If your phone _never_ gets past 80%, it could be the battery just needs
replacement. Batteries are consumables, and they do degrade after a year or
two or three (depending on cycling, temperatures, use, etc). iOS has a battery
health indicator giving you a rough estimate of the state... if the health is
low, get a repair kit from ifixit and then it's a fun evening activity to open
one of those puppies up and see just how tiny everything in there is!

[1]
[https://www.google.com/search?q=ev+charging+curves](https://www.google.com/search?q=ev+charging+curves)

~~~
Zak
It's not that adding additional charge to the battery is difficult. It's that
the current has to be tapered off when the battery is near-full so it doesn't
go over its rated voltage.

~~~
floatrock
Thanks for the clarification, the analogy clearly isn't very good.

Out of curiosity, have you found a better ELI5 analogy that doesn't bend over
backwards with a rube goldberg setup of pipes and waterflow? I've struggled
explaining this phenomenon to people buying EV's, where charging behavior
become a regular thing people need to figure out.

~~~
Zak
Well, if they're familiar with beer, and sophisticated enough to pour it into
a glass: poured very quickly, the beer will develop a large head that
overflows the glass, but pouring slowly creates a smaller head (or none, but
don't do that).

There's not more beer, but it fills more space temporarily when poured faster.

~~~
floatrock
That's not a bad example, I'm gonna try it out. Thanks!

------
rootusrootus
I wish they'd give us the option (on the iPhone and iPad as well) to
arbitrarily set the maximum charge level. Just like on my Tesla, I'd like to
be able to tell my phone not to charge above 80%.

~~~
overcast
Then 500M people complaining on Reddit that their phones only charge to 80%
for some reason.

~~~
Slartie
Easy: make the charge percentage display relative to the maximum configured
charge. Just like it already is with battery deterioration over time: if my
battery only holds 80% of its design capacity, the phone will still tell me to
be 100% charged as soon as the battery hits that 80%-of-design-capacity-brick-
wall.

I just want the option to manually move that brick wall down a bit (they're
already telling me exactly where it is right now, on iPhones at least, on the
MacBook I ask coconutBattery).

~~~
overcast
Then they'll be complaining their phone only lasts 8 hours before a charge
instead of 10.

~~~
Slartie
If they do that after deliberately reducing their maximum charge (a setting
which would probably come with a warning that reduced runtime of the phone is
the result of doing it), they'll probably also complain that their internet
speed has gone down after disabling the LTE/4G option (actually that does seem
to be even less transparent, because not everyone knows that LTE is faster
than 3G). Didn't stop Apple from offering a switch to disable LTE/4G.

------
6gvONxR4sf7o
PSA: If you have a thinkpad, the lenovo settings app lets you control this
too. In lenovo vantage, go to Device > My Device Settings > Battery settings >
Battery Charge Threshold.

~~~
sahaskatta
The Dell XPS 13 also offers an interface in the BIOS that lets you set a
charge limit, hours not to charge the laptop, and a bunch of other great
controls.

The only big issue is that they don't expose it through a friendly UI within
Windows 10. It's nonsense that I need to go to the BIOS to tweak these
settings.

~~~
jonfw
What's really nice about that approach is that I run linux on mine and it all
still works perfectly!

------
idoby
They should just make 50% the new 100% and then let you "supercharge" to 150%
when you need to. I'm kind of surprised Apple hasn't done this already.

~~~
stygiansonic
Nitpick: if 50% was the new 100% then the supercharge option would be to 200%,
which sounds even better :)

~~~
thanksgiving
Another nit: Maybe we never let the user get to 200% by refusing to charge
beyond 150% (internally known as 75%?) ever.

Better yet, all devices, phones, tablets, notebook computers, headphones,
speakers, ... should automatically stop charging at about 75% and then
continue to run directly off of the wall. I used to think that's what all
devices do because that just seems like common sense to me.

~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
I believe this is approximately how modern rechargeable devices work in order
to get so much life out of lithium ion batteries.

Maximum charge state is some percentage below the batteries physical maximum,
and maximum discharge is state is above the batteries physical minimum.

There's a bit in this Wikipedia article[1] that state _charging Li-ion
batteries beyond 80% can drastically accelerate battery degradation_.

1\. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-
ion_battery#Charge_and...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-
ion_battery#Charge_and_discharge)

------
dartdartdart
For people who use their laptops primarily as plugged in machines, there
should be a 50% max charge mode.

~~~
sambe
Why is it not possible to completely save the battery when on AC? i.e. charge
the battery to 100% (or something close) but power the laptop directly via the
charger.

~~~
gruez
>i.e. charge the battery to 100% (or something close) but power the laptop
directly via the charger.

That's already what's happening. However that's not enough. Leaving the
battery full is harmful in and of itself.

~~~
wyclif
Understood. So why hasn't Apple done something about this earlier? IOW, a
setting that charges the battery to a maximum of 80% when plugged in?

~~~
em500
Because you need to predict whether people want to use it plugged in or on a
full charge afterwards.

------
ben_w
Huh. That explains why my MacBook Air is doing so much worse than I expected
from the number of cycles it’s reporting.

It’s a mid-2013, so I’m not expecting much, but a few times I’ve seen “100%”
when waking it unplugged, only for this to be immediately followed by an
emergency shutdown, and when the reboot completes it claims “42%”.

It’s plugged in almost continuously these days.

~~~
geoelectric
If you check the power tab under System Information, you can find some battery
health info that might be illuminating. For example, my newish MBP16:

    
    
      Charge Information:
      Charge Remaining (mAh): 8362
      Fully Charged: Yes
      Charging: No
      Full Charge Capacity (mAh): 8647
      Health Information:
      Cycle Count: 18
      Condition: Normal
    

Looking it up, specced full capacity is 8818 mAh, so I'm at 98% health right
now--probably lost a point or two because I leave it constantly plugged in at
work. Willing to bet yours is much lower.

There are a few apps out there that can do a better analysis too.
CoconutBattery used to be a good one, no idea if it's still around, but they
were common.

~~~
teejmya
FruitJuice is a good app for this.
[https://imgur.com/dY0n6Uw](https://imgur.com/dY0n6Uw)

~~~
kalleboo
CoconutBattery is also good
[https://i.imgur.com/bv85ygJ.png](https://i.imgur.com/bv85ygJ.png)

It even supports plugged-in iOS devices
[https://i.imgur.com/nSIJrar.png](https://i.imgur.com/nSIJrar.png)

[https://www.coconut-flavour.com/coconutbattery/](https://www.coconut-
flavour.com/coconutbattery/)

------
jimmcslim
It would be great if they made this available for Mojave... Catalina seems
like such a shit-show that I have yet to upgrade.

God knows my laptop is spending alot of time on its charger at the moment.

Given 10.15.5 is likely to be the last version of Catalina before whatever
comes next... maybe it will be time to jump in?

~~~
kevinherron
I've used Catalina since 10.15.1 and haven't had issues. On a 2016 15" MBP
followed by a 2019 16" MBP.

~~~
Etheryte
Some people being lucky and not having issues doesn't mean other people don't
have them. As evidenced in many comment threads recently, plenty of people
have issues with Catalina.

------
diebeforei485
This makes a ton of sense. I assume it's smart enough to use data like your
location to charge up all the way (or more than usual) if you're in some
random hotel, instead of having to remember to turn it off when traveling.

If it's smart and takes all these things into account, that would be so much
better than setting some arbitrary threshold (is 50% okay? is 80% okay?).
Adding arbitrary options enables a lot of bullshit advice to spread.

------
rusty__
I wish people would stop using the generic 'MacBook' when talking about
'MacBook Pro' and 'MacBook Air' \- makes it very diffcult as a 'MacBook' owner
to find support articles.

~~~
NullPrefix
Don't they have specific code names? A9999X?

~~~
saagarjha
A1534.

------
dnr
For Thinkpads running Linux, you can do this (somewhat manually) with tpacpi-
bat:

[https://github.com/teleshoes/tpacpi-bat](https://github.com/teleshoes/tpacpi-
bat)

I set mine to stop charging at 85% and not start again until it drops below
75%. If I know I'm going to be away from power for a while (e.g. traveling) I
manually tell it to charge up to 95%.

Anyone know if there's something like that for Android?

~~~
ohazi
Somewhat infuriatingly, Thinkpads with two batteries (e.g. T480) will
discharge whichever battery appears "healthier" first, rather than taking the
sensible route of discharging the external battery first so that your internal
battery isn't completely dead when you're trying to hot swap.

When new, the internal lithium polymer battery reports its nominal capacity
conservatively, so that the measured capacity is a few hundred mAh higher than
nominal, making it appear healthier. The external lithium ion batteries tend
to report nominal battery capacity accurately. This means that for something
like the first year of use, these Thinkpads will consistently discharge the
internal battery to 5% before touching the external battery. By the time your
external battery is low enough to warrant a hot swap, the internal battery is
gone, and you have to power down or plug in. And of course 5% isn't a
configurable threshold, so you can't change it to, say, 20% instead.

Apparently this is baked into firmware on a charge controller IC somewhere, so
it's not hackable with some i2c commands like the charge thresholds.

------
floatingatoll
Previously, iOS 13 (released in 19Q4) changed the default iPhone charging
behavior to improve battery health:

[https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210512](https://support.apple.com/en-
us/HT210512)

------
treyfitty
I thought keeping a MacBook plugged in was advertised as OK (Even said to be
BETTER) since the power is being drawn from the AC source rather than the
battery. What’s the deal, is it better to leave it plugged in, or not?

~~~
mr_toad
Generally speaking it’s better to keep it plugged in than to repeatedly charge
and discharge it. But it’s even better to keep in plugged in at 80% charge
instead of 100%.

~~~
Nyra
Really? I'm not very knowledgeable about the subject but I always understood
that discharging the battery was healthy. Is there somewhere I can read up on
why that is?

~~~
aeyes
It is healthy, but discharging to 0% isn't and keeping it at 100% isn't
either. It is best to plug in at 20% but only charge to 80%. Then every half a
year you do a full charge to 100% and a full discharge to calibrate the
battery management.

But sadly that can't be configured on a MacBook.

------
adav
Hey Apple, this is the perfect opportunity to take advantage of the clean
USB-C ports arrangement on new MacBooks!

Charging Mode 1) By plugging the charger into the rearmost port, full 100%
fast charge please. Charging Mode 2) By plugging the charger into the other,
nearer port, I’m indicating that we’ll be here for a while... please trickle
my battery up to 50-75% to prolong the battery’s lifespan.

Indicate which mode I have instigated with a difference in “on charge” noises
and show an explanatory notification in the MacOS UI. Perfect opportunity to
explain what’s going on and espouse your green design credentials.

~~~
snowwrestler
I didn't think the USB-C / Thunderbolt port situation could get any more
complicated and confusing [1], but congratulations, this would certainly do
it.

[1] [https://www.macworld.com/article/3535896/how-to-tell-
whether...](https://www.macworld.com/article/3535896/how-to-tell-whether-a-
usb-c-cable-can-carry-high-wattage-power-and-thunderbolt-3-data.html)

~~~
adav
We aim to please! :)

------
robocat
I hit a similar issue with an iPad today - there is no easy way to tell if it
is charging slowly.

It was showing the charging icon, although only charging at 1W. Horrific UI. I
changed cables, it was charging at 5W. Shit, the charger was a 5W charger for
an iPod (charger looks the same, need to read tiny low contrast writing to
tell difference). Changed to a 10W charger, now charging at 7.5W. Change to
another cable, finally 10W.

Fortunately I had an in-line USB diagnosis tool (about $10, google for USB
power meter) otherwise you are screwed trying to diagnose why your iPad seems
to be charging slow...

------
jonny383
My 2017 13" Macbook Pro has seriously had garbage battery since the day I got
it. I'm lucky to get 4 hours from it doing light browsing in Safari.

Comparatively, my 2014 13" Macbook Air had the best battery I've ever had.
Routinely got 10 hours + doing the same thing.

And now, I have "service battery" in the tray icon. Cycle count: 101. After
the battery is below 60%, any kind of "heavy load" (i.e. gcc) will just turn
the thing off like a power cut.

Worst part is I can't even take it to get repaired because I'm stuck in SE
asia under lock-down.

------
monadic2
I really wish we could have greater control over these choices—the ones apple
goes with rarely align with the way I would ideally use my laptop.

~~~
machello13
Not sure what there is to complain about here. There's a checkbox to turn it
off if you don't like it, and anyway it's designed to adapt to how you use
your laptop.

------
Sephr
It would be nice if I could keep my MacBook battery at a healthy level without
having to drain it.

With the MacBook Pro 16 you can easily draw enough energy to drain your
battery while using a 100W power adapter.

Dell addressed to this issue in their USB-C laptops by making and allowing
130W power adapters. Apple requires you to tap into your non-user-replaceable
battery to supplant the power usage.

~~~
giancarlostoro
I had the issue that my charger was overheating so much it would stop charging
entirely. Had to ask the IT guy for a 2nd charger so I can swap between the
two to make sure my laptop wouldnt lose its charge. My former employer had us
all with Macbook Pros even though due to the nature of our work we couldnt do
jack while outside of the office. Still unsure why they didnt just buy us
iMacs.

------
tambourine_man
We desperately need better energy storage tech.

It's amazing what we were able to squeeze out of lithium ion, but it's
fundamentally a stop-gap.

~~~
rconti
man, I'm just still so impressed at how much better batteries are now than
they were 15 years ago.

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alliao
my favourite laptop has to be Panasonic's Let's Note I had one wayyy back
model W2D and they eventually had this physical button that let you charge up
to 80% for longevity reasons.

That being said, I still own a macbook pro from 2011 and it's battery is still
100% healthy so I'm quite surprised to see how much's changed...

~~~
hunter2_
I doubt you're really at 100%... if you go to "Apple menu > About This Mac >
System Report > Power > Battery Information" you can look at "Health
Information > Cycle Count" and see how many cycles you've been through... see
"Cycle Count Limits" at [https://support.apple.com/en-
us/HT201585](https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201585) for expected lifetime.
You could also look at "Charge information > Full Charge Capacity (mAh)" and
compare that to whatever the original capacity was for that model.

~~~
alliao
says 115 cycle... as it's plugged in most of it's life and full charge
capacity is 6435mAh which sounds about 100% still.. oh and it's actually late
2012 rather than 2011 felt like I got an upgrade lol

------
EGreg
I suddenly started getting this notification:

 _To reduce battery aging, iPhone learns from your daily charging routine so
it can wait to finish charging past 80% until you need to use it_

What does that mean? The remaining 20% happens right before you wake up,
otherwise the battery isn’t stressed so much?

------
surround
If I know I’m going to leave a laptop plugged in indefinitely, I would like to
be able to set it to 50% battery _manually_ instead of trying to “train” the
software to get it right. Most (all?) operating systems lack this ability.

~~~
Qub3d
On Dell's laptops (at least, on my XPS), I can set a maximum charge in the
BIOS, as well as select one from a few different charging strategies.

------
aj7
I have a loaded 2015 MacBook Pro. My wife insisted on it - we felt flush at
the time. It spends 6 months unused, and six months as a desktop, plugged in.
But if you go to use it mobiley, the battery life is about 40 minutes.

~~~
hombre_fatal
Sounds like you need to just get a new battery. That was 5 years ago.

I got 4-6 hours on my 2015 MBP depending on what I was doing after two years.

You could get a program like iStat Menus to keep an easy eye on your CPU to
see if something is using it. I think it's required in 2020 where Spotify,
Discord, Slack, Steam, a browser tab you opened last week, etc. will regularly
decide to start eating a whole core in the background.

------
technotarek
Slightly off topic, but has anyone else noticed how simply starting Activity
Monitor can bring your CPU and fan under control when they’re raging? True
with both my 2013 and brand new 2020 MBA.

------
rahkiin
According to Coconut battery, my MacBook Pro battery is now at 89% capacity
after only 2.3 years and 140 cycles. I hope this change keeps me away from the
dreaded 80%...

------
druidcz
I have destroyed three MBP batteries by having the laptop plugged in to the
wall 24/7\. Luckily Apple always replaced them in warranty for free.

------
lilyball
Apple has been doing this with iOS already, the only thing that surprises me
is that they've waited so long before doing it with laptops.

------
aeyes
Just let me set a max charging percentage like on my Thinkpad please.... After
2 years the battery on my MacBook Pro is pretty much dead.

~~~
m_eiman
You should probably check your battery cycle count:
[https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201585](https://support.apple.com/en-
us/HT201585)

~~~
aeyes
Its around 350, the battery is dead from being plugged in at work 10-12 hours
every day.

~~~
m_eiman
If the full charge is less than 80% of design capacity before 1000 cycles the
battery is defective according to Apple.

You should be able to get it replaced for free, imho, but I suppose that
depends on local regulations and if you have Apple Care or not.

------
ekzy
I've got a Mid 2014 MBP Retina and I'm happy with it, except for playing video
games. I tried to upgrade to one of the new MBP last year and I hated it. I
sent it back. I tried a windows with WSL, as well as an ubuntu setup, on a
very powerful and sleek laptop, but I sent it back too. I'm back with my good
old 2014 retina. If I really need a new laptop, for now the only viable option
is a MBP Retina 2015, how crazy is that?

------
jb775
>Charging a modern laptop battery to 100% and leaving it there for extended
periods of time—especially at warm temperatures—can dramatically reduce the
battery’s usable life.

This has been known for years, and this feature is relatively simple to build.
I don't think it's an act of benevolence from Apple, I think the estimated
cost of another class-action lawsuit has surpassed the estimated gain from
decreasing the perceived life of MacBooks.

~~~
bertil
I’d be surprised if the risk wasn’t seriously mitigated by hiding that option
in an obscure enough menu, or a command-line tool.

------
tipsysquid
For Dell users, you can do this as well in the BIOS if you run Linux, and the
Dell battery utility in Windows 10

------
qwerty456127
It says changes the default. Could this be chosen manually then. Can I set up
the same behavior on High Sierra?

------
bluedino
Quite a few 16" owners have been reporting their battery capacity to be down
to 90% already.

------
Marsymars
I wonder why this applies only to Thunderbolt 3 MacBooks and not non-
Thunderbolt USB-C MacBooks.

~~~
cerberusss
Maybe the Thunderbolt 3 MacBooks have enough capacity to spare?

~~~
Marsymars
Maybe... there's not a ton of difference in specced battery life though, so
80% of that should be roughly the same. The 2017 MacBook is specced for
10/12/30 web hours/movie hours/standby days on battery vs. the 2020 MacBook
Air is specced for 11/12/30.

------
sebastianconcpt
It can make it pole dance if they like, I won't upgrade macOS during a
lockdown. No way.

------
ksec
We need a leap in Battery Tech, in Charge Cycles, Capacity, Durability, Non-
flammable.

------
ComodoHacker
Weren't other major vendors doing this since middle of 2000s at least?

------
sahoo
I wish they will give a, hey Siri charge to 100% command, if I am traveling.

------
shp0ngle
Now I am thinking for the first time about upgrade to Catalina.

------
Lammy
Because newer Macs contain what is essentially an iOS device: the security
processor. It’s the data broker for the encrypted internal storage among other
things.

------
jb775
Why not just get rid of built-in batteries entirely? Not only does it lead to
unethical business practices (linking battery life to hardware performance),
but it facilitates a privacy nightmare.

~~~
lilyball
> _Why not just get rid of built-in batteries entirely_

Built-in batteries allow for custom battery shapes that increase battery life
or allow for thinner computers at the same battery life. They increase laptop
durability by not requiring a removable battery cover. They allow for putting
other components on top of the battery as well to better take advantage of the
space inside the enclosure.

> _it facilitates a privacy nightmare_

How does it do that?

~~~
jb775
> How does it do that?

If I remove my laptop battery, I know no one can tap into my hardware
covertly. E.g. turn on the microphone, enable bluetooth hardware to see who
I'm near, enable 3G/4G hardware to track which cell towers I'm near, etc.

I'd gladly deal with a battery cover on my MacBook in exchange for definite
privacy. Better yet, remove the battery from inside the laptop entirely and
can plug one in via USB-C port as needed.

~~~
lilyball
For such a niche use case, just stick the thing in a faraday cage bag. It
doesn't matter that it has power if it can't exchange any signals with the
outside world.

------
ddmma
So the guys from sales enter in the engineering room and take some decisions
on the way devices should behave, first months maximum usage and then degrade
contantly until new releases to increase adoption. Oh my, was for your battery
protection (no more juice) either was a bug (if privacy was jnvolved)

~~~
AlEinstein
Did you even read the article? I’ve been wanting something like this for a
while. It’s a solid engineering decision that needs good marketing to make
sure people understand that it’s good for battery life.

