
Fountain pen ink properties - polm23
https://crlf.site/log/notes/200430-inks/
======
cannam
Much as I like fountain pens (they're more or less the only pens I use) I have
a suspicion they're a bit like a mini version of hi-fi - you can spend an
arbitrary amount on admittedly beautifully made objects, which you then have
to basically pretend are so much better than the cheaper ones.

My favourite pen is actually my cheapest - a Platinum Plaisir (a Japanese
company - I see the author mentions Platinum pens). I bought it in an airport
when leaving Japan in order to use up some left-over cash. It looked a bit
crappy and I was surprised to find, first, that the plasticky body was
actually metal, just somehow made to look like cheap plastic - and then, that
it wrote really well. I still think it looks a bit crappy, but it's a pleasant
case of a product being far better than it appears.

I still wouldn't advise going to any trouble to find one, though. Something
like a Kaweco Sport - almost as cheap - is practically as good and, in the UK
at least, much easier to find.

The article might be on to something in focusing on ink - that could well be
the most important bit, much as the most important bit of your record player
is the cartridge (hm, there's an analogy here that isn't quite what I
intended). Different inks in the same pen can make or ruin your writing
experience.

~~~
Slackwise
As a lefty, the ink's drying speed is key, but also, the size and shape of the
nib. Lefties should be using big bulbous bold 1.0+ tip nibs that glide across
the page instead of stab into it.

Unlike a rolling ball pen, it won't skip or fail to roll with pressure due to
the rightward angle-of-attack against the paper, so a proper fountain pen is
actually better than most other pens for us lefties. First time experiencing
smooth writing in my life.

Ultimately, the enemy of lefties is the pointy tip, and the rolling ball
that's expected to be rolled against the paper, not pushed against it. Felt-
tip pens work just fine for us, so those pen Sharpies are alright, but so are
the 1.0 bold tip roller ball pens from Pilot, at least all the Pilots I've
tried. Can't say all the others work as well.

~~~
Wistar
A friend of mine, a lefty, built a little writing table with a surface warmed
by a small heating pad to dry his fountain pen ink rapidly. He used a smooth,
rubber-like, or maybe vinyl, drafting table mat to cover the writing surface.
It worked for him. I thought it was ingenious.

~~~
SiVal
You could also use a Noodler's "bulletproof" ink on cheap paper. The cheap
paper will have lots of exposed cellulose, and the bulletproof ink is designed
to react to and bond with cellulose. A lefty will smear Noodler's bulletproof
inks on high-quality paper designed for fountain pens and calligraphy, because
the sizing (coating on the paper) keeps the ink and paper apart (for beauty),
but on cheapo printer paper, it bonds (like ballpoint pen ink, it doesn't dry,
it polymerizes and bonds) almost immediately.

~~~
Wistar
Interesting. I use Noodler's Bulletproof for check writing due to its alleged
strong resistance to erasure and check washing. I have seen it mentioned as
being well-suited for use on cheaper, rougher paper but hadn't really given it
much thought and it makes sense that it'd work well for lefties.

------
kstrauser
I kept wanting to love fountain pens, and I bought a couple, but the
experience was always meh and not really any better (to me) than a decent
ballpoint. They certainly didn’t help the writer’s cramp I’d suffered with all
my life like I’d heard they would.

Then I bought a Lamy Safari on a whim and realized I could barely hold the
thing. I did some reading and found out I was using the “lateral tripod pencil
grip”[1], but the shape of the Safari’s wedged end really wants you to use the
dynamic tripod grip. I fought through forcing myself to adjust the way I hold
my pen for a couple of weeks, and what do you know: it really did end my hand
cramps.

Ballpoint pens push you to hold them vertically. Fountain pens work much
better at shallower angles. The difference in grip, and angle, and much lower
writing pressure makes a huge difference (for me) in writing comfort. After
trying and giving up fountain pens a few times, now I’m sold on them.

[1] [https://www.ot-mom-learning-activities.com/correct-pencil-
gr...](https://www.ot-mom-learning-activities.com/correct-pencil-grasp.html)

~~~
wenc
Thanks, I didn't know there was a name for that grip. I sort of picked it up
by osmosis through watching a ton of youtube videos. I wouldn't say one
arrives at that grip automatically, but due to how fountain pen nibs behave
and how ink flows, I have noticed many people stumbling upon that grip without
instruction. It definitely is different from a ballpoint pen grip which as
you've noted is more "hand-crampy".

I've a few Lamys but my favorite pens of the last year or so have been TWSBI
ECO Fs, an upgrade from Pilot Metro Fs, which I find scratchy. I also have
some super cheap Jinhaos that look good on the outside but are leaky. I gather
most people buy Jinhaos for the exterior, and switch out the nibs.

An astoundingly cheap and surprisingly good fountain pen ($4) is the Japanese-
made Platinum Preppy F. They write way better than Pilot Metros. I kind of
think Preppys should be the recommended starter pens rather than Metros.

I grew up writing with cheap Parker fountain pens in elementary school-- those
poor experiences colored my perceptions of pens until I tried better pens. If
I had a Preppy, I would have started on my fountain pen journey earlier...

~~~
SiVal
I like Preppies. I don't know where to get them for $4 (open to suggestions),
but I often want to try exotic inks with some pigment or sparkle or acrylic or
acid (iron gall ink) or whatever that risks damaging a fountain pen. I'm fine
if I neglect to clean it and it clogs the Preppy. Oops. Throw it away.

~~~
wenc
Amazon has a multicolor pack of 7 for $25 (~$4 per pen after tax).

If you buy them individually, they're between $5-$7 retail.

------
joyj2nd
In my European home country, all kids in school must write with Fountain pens.
At least in Elementary school and as far as I can remember.

They may have some style and look good cool, but honestly, I prefer ink
rollers.

This is one of the best pens I know:

[https://www.amazon.com/Zebra-Dx5-Liq-Ink-
Rollerball/dp/B000T...](https://www.amazon.com/Zebra-Dx5-Liq-Ink-
Rollerball/dp/B000TK56MI)

~~~
zwieback
In Germany in the 70s when I was in elementary school and forced to write with
fountain pens there were two camps: Geha and Pelikan - you were one or the
other and they had different ink cartridges.

Later on we upgraded to fancier pens like Lamy or Montblanc but honestly, the
mass market kid pens worked better.

There were also strict rules about which colors we were allowed to use.

When we spent some time in a US school during my dad's sabbatical we were
amazed that the kids used pencils - so convenient and erases better than the
"Tintenkiller" we had to use.

~~~
aries1980
It is hard to beat a Pelikan and they have some fancy range.

It is strange you didn't mention Rotring. They are quite affordable, nice
design, good pens.

~~~
zwieback
I didn't use Rotring till college. For drafting I had a set of 4 pens with the
thin cylindrical shaft in different diameters.

------
qubex
I’m a fountain-pen aficionado that was taught to write with fountain pens and
cursive writing way back in the eighties and never stopped.

Now I have a sizeable collection, but by far my favourite is Faber Castell’s
Tamitio which features a collection of italic nibs (I myself use the most
modest 1.1 size).

[https://www.graf-von-faber-
castell.com/products/Calligraphys...](https://www.graf-von-faber-
castell.com/products/CalligraphysetTamitio/141506)

I’d like to chime in with an appreciation for Noodler’s ink. I first
encountered it when I was in New York but I stocked up and then returned home
and found (happily enough) that now it’s very conveniently available online.

~~~
ramimac
I've been using The Parson's Essential[1] with an italic nib for 5+ years, and
have to drop a recommendation.

Also of interest to anyone exploring transitioning to fountain pens would be
the Pilot Vanishing Point[2], which is a retractable fountain pen that is
generally well regarded.

[1] [http://www.mrpen.co.uk/contents/en-
uk/p866.html](http://www.mrpen.co.uk/contents/en-uk/p866.html) [2]
[http://pilotpen.us/categories/fountain-pens/vanishing-
point-...](http://pilotpen.us/categories/fountain-pens/vanishing-point-
fountain/)

------
bborud
I have quite a few fountain pens - a few that are somewhat expensive, but my
top tip is TWSBI. They make unreasonably good pens with large reservoirs.

Another tip is Noodlers Ink’s fast-drying “Bernanke Blue” ;-)

~~~
joshvm
I wrote all my university notes with Bernanke Blue, Bulletproof black (I
think) and Widow Maker red. I had a few TWSBI pens, which were nice while they
lasted, but unfortunately the plastic crazed after a few years of sitting in a
box and at least two are now broken. I had the big one and two minis. I'm not
sure if that was becuaee I didn't flush the ink out before storage, but
something to be aware of.

My goto before that (and now) are Uniball Jet Stream. The ink dries faster
than you can try and smudge it. Refills are slightly hard to come by in
physical stores, but I don't write much these days and they last for ages. I
got a nice metal one (Jet Stream Prime, I think, single colour) last time I
was in Japan - wasn't too expensive. Very hard to find that version elsewhere,
but it's lovely and heavy.

~~~
bborud
Crazed as in becoming brittle?

I keep ink in my pens constantly. My philosophy being that any tool that can’t
take the way I use it doesn’t deserve its place. (Pens that don’t work get
thrown away mercilessly).

The environment where my pens are stored and used is very dry with little
variation. Perhaps humidity and temperature is a factor?

~~~
joshvm
Yep, they just cracked and broke. Maybe more of an issue with the TWSBI
because the reservoir is part of the pen. Maybe environmental, but I don't
live in a particularly extreme area. I never had an issue while I was using
them regularly, and I believe they're reasonably maintainable in that you can
strip them down to lubricate. Most of the internal mechanics are also plastic
though.

~~~
mcguire
TWSBIs have a certain reputation. They have excellent designs and are cheap,
but there's something wrong with their plastic. They suffer a lot of breakage.

I haven't been following them lately, but they used to be very good about
replacing broken parts. (Which would then break.)

------
ballenf
No idea if it’s heretical in the fountain pen world, but I’m a fan of Pilot
Varsity disposable fountain pens. They come in both fine and medium points and
a variety of colors. One upside is I always know which pen is mine since I’ve
never run into anyone else using them.

I also have some expensive fountain pens, but don’t take those to work.

~~~
derekp7
The Varsity pens are the only fountain pens that "just work" when I use them.
Any other ones I own (Parker, Monteverde, Cross) seems to get dried up if they
sit too long. My only complaint about the Varsity pens are they are too light
-- I like a bit of weight to mine.

~~~
Nursie
I wonder if the not-drying-up is to do with the ink solvent mixture?

It has a different smell to other inks.

~~~
Germanika
It's possible. Another factor is simply how air-tight the seals are. My older
fountain pens tend to dry out faster than most modern ones. There are also
some pens (Platinum 3776 for example) which are designed to virtually never
dry out.

------
Multicomp
Fountain pen inks are amazingly varied, and combining them with the particular
properties of thefountain pen inks are amazingly varied, and combining them
with the particular properties of the fountain pens themselves prove quite the
rabbit hole of a hobby.

Example of this is below, but feel free to skip.

Just yesterday, I reached for my custom ink replacement for Parker penman
Sapphire and was glad I had it handy. I was cleaning out some boxes and
rediscovered my esterbrook SJ pen with a manifold fine nib. It has been
restored, but I tend to not put modern inks in vintage pens oh, so having that
ink sure was handy.

I remember not really liking the pen because it was such a nail to use, but
with my current journal being a poetic Earth journal using handmade carbon
paper that most fountain pens don't like, this one seems to do much better
then any of the rest, and really the only other writing instrument in
competition to write on this journal would be a pencil, and hard pencil at
that. Silverpoint inkless metal pens are entirely useless, and fountain pens
for the most part don't like the uneven paper surface, it's a bit like driving
off road in a 4 x 4 sedan, well it can do it, it's not really liking it.

It is just interesting to me how even though I prefer my pilot myu 701 and
other Japanese pens, because of the variety of nibs available in fountain
pens, I can still find a use for a pen that at the time I didn't think I could
use.

~~~
kebman
If you want writing excellence, the paper also matters a lot. This is
especially so if you're using more specialized equipment, and in particular if
you're using inks that are more prone to seeping into the paper. The ability
for the paper to only hold the top layer, without "drowning" or seeping in
like watercolour, is then paramount. Rough or uneven paper just won't do
either. Rather carefully use an ink blotter if the ink doesn't dry fast
enough.

------
croqaz
Wow, I had no idea my crappy post ended on Hacker news! I just collected a
bunch of info and links for myself :) I guess I have to update the post with
some pictures, at least...

------
potatofarmer45
Fountains pens are an experience and a statement. It's fussy in that it takes
much longer to dry than most ball point pens, and it has a clear preference
for pricy paper. In return, it makes a mundane part of life (writing notes
etc) much more fun and personal. My signature ink is the Iroshizuku Asa-Gao.
It's a punchy blue ink that comes in a gorgeously slick bottle. Every time I
see the bright blue ink on paper, it makes me happy.

~~~
kstrauser
Regarding paper: I bought a Rhodia Webnotebook - no, I don’t know why they
called it that - and my fountain pen loves it. It’s the first time in
basically my whole life that handwriting has been pleasurable.

------
bikenaga
Here's a fairly extensive ink review:
[http://www.richardspens.com/ref/care/inks.htm](http://www.richardspens.com/ref/care/inks.htm)

Based on his recommendations, I've been using Waterman Intense Black. It works
great: I just write a lots of text, and don't need colors - and importantly
dye-based inks are less likely to cause clogs. But one drawback is that the
ink isn't water-resistant, so if my notes ever get wet, they're done. I was
thinking about trying Noodler's, since a lot of people seem to like their
inks.

Has anyone who has used the Noodler's Bulletproof inks noticed problems with
clogging (or the pens needing frequent cleaning)? (The review I linked
mentioned problems with the Buletproofs.)

~~~
splintercell
Bulletproof ink means they are archival and forgery proof, if you don't
necessarily need to write unforgeable stuff like checks, then you just need to
archival inks from Noodler's.

But I have used plenty of his inks and other than Baystate Blue none of them
truly give you any problem. and if you are into fountain pen and inks nobody
should die without using Baystate blue at least once.

My favorite are noodler's Henry Hudson blue which is a fountain pen Hospital
exclusive ink, and the general of the armies. they both are complimentary
things in ways that Henry Hudson blue is blue on writing but greenish on
drying. General of the armies is the opposite, it's green on writing and
bluish on drying. I have my pens loaded up that Henry Hudson blue and I picked
them once a week, and other than priming them a bit there is no problem.

~~~
Multicomp
TL;DR: I second your points and add some anecdotes of my own.

Like you say, Noodlers inks have various flavors of permanence, from none, to
archival / eternal, bulletproof, and Wardens series. Almost all of them are PH
neutral which helps keep them from harming the pen they are in or more
commonly the paper they're put on.

I treat inks at my house on a spectrum, depending on how long I want whatever
I'm writing to last.

0\. Goners - chucked because they couldn't even hit level 1.

1\. Non-permanent - often water soluble, looks great and behaves well, but I
don't expect it to survive being in the sun, getting wet, or otherwise taking
any torture at all. An example of this is Diamine Red Dragon, which has a cool
name and a cooler look on paper.

2\. Bulletproof - my standard inks for journalling or other documents that I
want to resist aging and be reasonably readable if dunked in a bucket of
water. An example would be Noodler's Heart of Darkness (looks like a shiny
onyx black on paper) or Noodler's Navajo Turquoise (optional Eel), or even the
humble Noodler's Bulletproof Black (looks like a grainy black).

3\. Safe inks - My 'nice' non-permanent inks. Used for birthday cards, special
occasions, and self-indulgent musings if the writing is not intended to be
used more than a year or so. I also reach for these when I have a pen that is
misbehaving with my usual inks. An example of this would be Pilot Iroshizuku
Iro Ai.

4\. Top Security inks - There are only 2 of these in my house. Noodler's Bad
Blue Heron, and Noodler's Bad Belted Kingfisher. I use the latter in my Myu
701 for things that I want to last till the end of time, and resist the sun,
rain, bleach, forgery lasers, the works.

None of the above considerations can be applied to ballpoint or rollerball
pens, indeed, you are lucky if you have a 3 color pack of something nice from
the disposables, like the Uni-Ball Signo DX UM-151 if you are gonna go to
JetPens, otherwise you are stuck with the Uni-Ball Vision Elite Needle Grip
family, which does okay, but still doesn't hold up to all the color varieties,
nib variations, and grip sizes that fountain pens offer.

When I need to reach for a pen that is not a fountain pen for whatever reason
(half the time all my FPs are just clean and un-inked and/or out of ink and I
don't have time to fill 'em) I reach for the Pilot Hi-Techpoint V7, which is a
refillable version of the Pilot Precise series of pens.

------
kashyapc
Speaking of which ... for the last year, I've been using a combination of
these two for my daily note-taking. I'm extremely delighted with them
(especially the nib):

\- Waterman _Hémisphère_ fine nib pen[+]. It costs between 80-105 euros,
depending on where you buy.

\- Waterman "Encre Noir Intense" (Intense Black Ink)

[+] [https://www.waterman.com/en/hemisphere/160-black-fountain-
pe...](https://www.waterman.com/en/hemisphere/160-black-fountain-pen-
gt-3501170920619.html)

------
IMAYousaf
Muji makes a fantastic, beginner friendly Fountain Pen. I use mine daily, and
I bought it for a lot of my friends who expressed interest in it. It's only
$15.

Image:

[https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1SvaitlOH40/maxresdefault.jpg](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1SvaitlOH40/maxresdefault.jpg)

Link to Product:

[https://www.muji.us/store/aluminum-round-fountain-
pen.html](https://www.muji.us/store/aluminum-round-fountain-pen.html)

------
srik
If you have the patience to handle Iron Gall Ink, they are a pleasure like
none other. It was the penman's popular choice for good reason. They produce
very fine hairlines and enable swift stroke production.

Cons wise, they require a good quality paper to reflect those hairlines. Also,
given its nib-eating nature, instead of a fountain pen, I'd suggest pairing it
with a holder and a good nib. More hassle, but more pleasure. McCafferey's Ink
is a great recommendation if anyone would like to try.

~~~
mcguire
[https://www.paperinkarts.com/mcaink.html](https://www.paperinkarts.com/mcaink.html)

"* McCaffery's inks are highly acidic and can eat away at nibs. When using
this ink, clean your nib thoroughly and often to avoid corrosion. You may also
find mold on the surface of the ink, or a dried skin. These developments are
natural and do not mean your ink has gone bad. Simply remove the mold or skin,
throw it away, and stir the ink well. You are now ready to keep writing!*"

Uh, yeah.

Glass dip pens are generally available, though I haven't used one. I also have
a glass-nibbed fountain pen, but it's mostly for pondering the weirdness of
the universe.:-)

~~~
anonymousse1234
"do not use this ink in fountain pens "

This is not a fountain pen ink but recreation of historic inks used with non-
fountain pens.

For fountain pens try Platinum blue-black, Pelikan 4001 blue-black, Diamine
Registrar's.

~~~
mcguire
Noodler's Air Corps Blue-black, here! :-)

I was mostly looking at the mold comment.

------
bitxbit
There is [https://www.mountainofink.com/](https://www.mountainofink.com/)

Probably the most comprehensive ink reference I’ve come across.

~~~
jjgreen
Oh thanks a bunch, that's how many hours of my life I'm going to lose browsing
that site?

------
zwieback
If you think fountain pen inks are complex you'd be amazed what crazy stuff
our inkjet ink chemists come up with.

------
ashish01
Pilot Namiki Black is also a very well behaved ink and easy on the pen.

~~~
criddell
That's what I use. My only complaint is that it evaporates so quickly. I don't
write a lot, so anytime I want to use my pen the first thing I have to do is
replace the cartridge and try to get the ink flowing again.

------
thomas
This is a strange blog post, almost like a Wikipedia page with more references
than information. Also no images. Is there a name for this style? Is it very
popular?

~~~
williamscs
Martin Fowler has called his website a "bliki"
([https://martinfowler.com/bliki/WhatIsaBliki.html](https://martinfowler.com/bliki/WhatIsaBliki.html)).

------
bambataa
Has anyone left-handed successfully used good pens? It’s something I would
like but it seems a waste when I know it’ll just become a smudge.

~~~
dugditches
There are 'quick dry' inks. Combined with a fine nib(lays down less ink).

A TWSBI Eco with a bottle of Noodler's Bernanke would do.

~~~
bambataa
Thanks -- I'll give that combo a go.

------
komali2
Would love a breakdown of ink viscosity so I can finally do a dropper build
that doesn't leak.

------
098799
Surprising to see this on HN. Yes, fountain pens are a rabbit hole. No, they
are not really useful - it's hard to edit or search through what you wrote on
paper - but the feeling while writing is pretty amazing.

~~~
dunefox
> No, they are not really useful

Pens aren't useful?

> it's hard to edit or search through what you wrote on paper

As opposed to every other document not written using FPs? I don't even know
what your point is here.

~~~
098799
> Pens aren't useful?

Yes, this is my point.

> As opposed to every other document not written using FPs?

As opposed to documents not written on paper. Please, read carefully.

~~~
Enginerrrd
I was also confused. Your first comment was poorly worded to convey the
meaning you had intended.

More to the point though:

> it's hard to edit or search through what you wrote on paper

You'd be surprised how fast queries can be done in the type of physical
organization systems that existed before computers! People weren't stupid,
they came up with many _brilliant_ systems. There's a great art to
organization, summary, and consolidation. Maximum flexibility is usually not
synonymous with maximum efficiency. And we've never quite mastered the input
system for computers.

Editing is generally much better on a computer though, but even that shouldn't
be overestimated. As humans we are much more often limited by the speed at
which we can think, than by the speed with which we can record that
information.

