
Amazon Will Ban Sale of Apple, Google Video-Streaming Devices - coloneltcb
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-01/amazon-will-ban-sale-of-apple-google-video-streaming-devices
======
Artistry121
I don't think this move is in Amazon's best interests long term. Their
competitive edge with Prime is that I go to them first because I assume
they'll have what I want, at a fair price and the highest level of
convenience.

If they are no longer the "Everything Store" then they won't be where I go to
for everything...

~~~
cwkoss
Totally agree. They are destroying their most valuable component of their
brand, for a relatively weak one (Prime Video).

I have Prime and prefer Netflix, because Prime Video still doesn't have a
great selection.

~~~
yid
> They are destroying their most valuable component of their brand, for a
> relatively weak one (Prime Video).

This is why it almost seems like Amazon's Google+ moment: one underperforming
product area somehow manages to convince leadership to change the company's
underlying principles in its advantage to the long-term detriment of overall
brand perception.

Edit: 32 points in 19 mins for this comment. I really hope someone from Amazon
is reading.

~~~
x0x0
Ditto, though here's the problem with amazon: buying apple stuff on there is a
shit experience.

Go there right now and type macbook pro in the search. You'll get a page of
results with these top results:

    
    
       Apple MacBook Pro MF839LL/A 13.3-Inch Laptop with Retina Display (128 GB) NEWEST VERSION
       Apple MacBook Pro MD101LL/A 13.3-Inch Laptop
       Apple MacBook Pro MJLQ2LL/A 15.4-Inch Laptop with Retina Display (NEWEST VERSION)
       Apple MacBook Pro MB990LL/A 13.3-Inch Laptop
       Apple MacBook Pro MJLT2LL/A 15.4-Inch Laptop with Retina Display (NEWEST VERSION)
    

As a consumer, how the hell am I supposed to know what those are? I see a
bunch of sellers called their listings "NEWEST VERSION" but is that true? What
the fuck is a MF839LL/A?

The whole thing is a mess.

But yeah, I bought prime 4 years ago and amazon became my one stop shop for
everything. This is their threat to google's business of taxing ecommerce via
owning discovery. Amazon wins if search starts there and skips google;
excluding items from prime dilutes that value.

But let's be honest: this is obviously amazon leveraging their ecommerce power
to force apple to build amazon prime video into apple tv.

~~~
CPLX
I feel like this is actually a potentially _serious_ problem for Amazon, and
it's getting worse.

The other day I went to buy a pair of standard issue Apple headphones. The
same exact ones that come with the iPhone. Yeah they are slightly overpriced
but I am really used to them and they sound good and my pair was getting ratty
and I wanted another one.

It was literally impossible to do. Try it and see what I mean. I see "Original
OEM iPhone Earbuds with Mac and Volume Control" as the first result, for
$4.94. As a non-clueless person I know those definitely aren't real. But are
the results for $24.99 or $29.99 real? It's really just impossible to be sure,
you can look for "Sold by Amazon" itself but even that can be ambiguous. The
day I went to do it I literally could not. I gave up and went to apple.com
where it took 30 seconds.

That's not an uncommon experience. I typically buy Apple stuff from the Apple
online store, or from B&H, as a rule, because this is such a problem. And I'm
noticing it more and more with other products, things like USB hubs or IP
Cameras and the like.

My default has always been to buy almost everything I can from Amazon as the
first preference, but it's getting harder and harder to do in entire
categories of products. I hope someone there is paying attention to this
problem, it's real.

~~~
joe5150
I have this experience probably about half the time I'm shopping on Amazon
(which I do a lot of). If you look in the comments/reviews for many items
there will be dozens of people saying e.g. "product shipped was not the
product pictured", "only buy if the seller is so-and-so if you want a genuine
product", "received a used/returned product", and on and on. I've taken to
spending more and going out of my way to buy some things in retail stores,
where I can at least be reasonably sure I'm not getting a counterfeit.

------
slg
>"Over the last three years, Prime Video has become an important part of
Prime," Amazon said in the e-mail. "It’s important that the streaming media
players we sell interact well with Prime Video in order to avoid customer
confusion."

Google and Apple now both have open SDK's for creating streaming apps for
their devices. Isn't the the fact these devices don't "interact well with
Prime Video" entirely Amazon's fault?

~~~
newobj
"Google and Apple now both have open SDK's for creating streaming apps for
their devices." And with what provisos about selling through those apps? This
is not a technical issue. Amazon just doesn't want to give up 30% of GMS
(which would be an even higher % of its margins) on digital media.

~~~
yohui
Google does not take a 30% cut of all content sold through apps on Google
Play. On Android, the in-app purchase rule only applies to content that can
only be consumed via apps (so not Netflix, Amazon, etc.).

And even on iOS, Amazon still has video apps, they just don't allow you to buy
or rent directly within the app: [https://itunes.apple.com/app/amazon-
video/id545519333](https://itunes.apple.com/app/amazon-video/id545519333)

There's nothing stopping Amazon from supporting Apple TV or Chromecast, except
itself.

~~~
ucsdrake
Exactly. To build on your point, take Amazon's kindle app, available for both
android and ios. With Apple devices you can't purchase any content within the
app, but at least you can read what you've already purchased from Amazon
through other means. They could do something similar with Amazon video.

------
larubbio
This move really saddens me. When I left Netscape to work at Amazon one of the
things that I was excited about was a quote from Jeff. "Focus on the customer,
not competition." It seems they hve forgotten that.

I found it frustrating when I couldn't stream Prime videos to my android phone
(is stock android that different from the version on Fire?)

I found it frustrating (but understandable) when they said they wouldn't
support Google TV anymore. (Although the 'support' was letting me watch videos
in Chrome).

Now this? It seems like they have forgotten completely about the customer and
are focusing solely on the competition.

~~~
JohnTHaller
Prime instant video always worked on Android. Amazon just didn't want you to
use it because they wanted to sell you a tablet. Or a horribly overpriced
clunky phone.

Amazon now lets you use Prime instant video on your Android device, but
there's a _big_ catch. You have to manually install it from their site and
allow untrusted apps on your phone to do so. And it's not just Prime instant
video you're installing, you're installing the full Amazon App Store on your
Android device and giving it full permissions to everything on your phone so
it can install and update other apps.

This type of behavior is only focused on the competition and a big middle
finger to the customer.

~~~
lvs
And while you can get it running, it doesn't support Chromecast because they
want you to buy their own competing product. I can feel the Justice
Department's Antitrust Division rumbling from here.

------
chipgap98
Amazon can absolutely do this (but I think it is a slippery slope, possibly a
sign of some bad changes ahead at amazon. They really should be neutral about
the products listed on their site) but the reason they gave is kinda
ridiculous [1]. I have a hard time believing the enough people don't know the
difference between Prime & Netflix to make this a legitimate reason to stop
selling Chromecast and Apple TV

[1]: Over the last three years, Prime Video has become an important part of
Prime," Amazon said in the e-mail. "It’s important that the streaming media
players we sell interact well with Prime Video in order to avoid customer
confusion.

~~~
pm24601
> Amazon can absolutely do this

May, maybe not. It depends if the FTC views this as an anti-competitive move.
See [https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-
guidance/guide-a...](https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-
guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/single-firm-conduct)

"It is unlawful for a company to monopolize or attempt to monopolize trade,
meaning a firm with market power cannot act to maintain or acquire a dominant
position by excluding competitors or preventing new entry."

~~~
arrosenberg
You can still buy Apple TV or Chromecast Directly, from Best Buy/Walmart, etc.
etc.

All Amazon did with this is alienate people like me, who just want Prime to
work with the 2 Chromecasts I already own. Good reminder that they are more
interested in what they want than what I want.

------
cracoucax
This is a very bad move for Amazon on all levels, i'm pretty sure this will be
cancelled and some heads will fly.

I mean :

\- They piss their customers

\- They piss their merchants, probably killing some businesses along the way

\- They instill fear in their potential merchants. I was vaguely thinking
about selling stuff on amazon mind you, and worried a bit about being locked
in. Well, those fears are much more real now.

\- They piss google and apple, obviously. They're competitors of course but
it's a bit of a harsh move, in fact it looks like a war declaration.

\- They have a very special place as the biggest merchant on the internet,
people watch them and some fear for good reason what they could become (like
the only e commerce platform on the internet), and what it could mean in term
of market manipulation opportunities. Well they just gave those guys lots of
cookies.

\- They lose sales, obviously

All that for what ? Well that's ... not clear.

------
ryanobjc
This is a unfortunate turn of events. When I worked for Amazon we were a
neutral vendor and would sell anything that is legal. There were a number of
first amendment right fights as well.

But clearly that era has come to a close.

~~~
driverdan
It came to a close a long time ago. Amazon refuses to sell many legal
products, eg caffeine powder and anything with the confederate flag.

~~~
awakeasleep
Just in case anyone is interested in caffeine powder (interesting because it
sublimates) do yourself a favor and don't order it.

The smallest orders available online are enough to kill an elephant, and you
need a $500+ scale to dose it accurately enough to keep a human from
overdosing. And while most human overdoses will be uniquely unpleasant but not
lethal, there is definitely the potential for a lethal dose if someone puts a
tablespoonful into a drink or something.

Pure caffeine is a uniquely bad thing to have around your living quarters.
It's basically a poison (because of the difficulty in measuring dosage and
small range between useful and dangerous effect), but people feel very
comfortable with it, imagine it's safe to eat, and a big enough chunk of
people will act macho towards it.

~~~
justinhj
Doesn't seem that crazy to me. One site I looked at sells 300 capsules for $15
and the whole page is littered with clear warnings about overdose. The lethal
dose of caffeine seems to be around 5 to 10 grams so you'd have to eat 25
200mg capsules in a short period to get into danger. That doesn't seem any
more dangerous than something like tylenol which they do sell.

~~~
Obi_Juan_Kenobi
The danger is with powders, not pills. Dosing powders requires you have a
scale that is more accurate than what most people have, and proper technique
in weighing it. The best way for most people to get an accurate dosage is to
compound the caffeine with some filler and weigh that (cut it, basically).

Honestly, the only reason you should be dealing with powders is if you're
making your own 'stack' of nootropics.

------
AaronFriel
Cancel your Amazon Prime, send a signal to Amazon.

There are plenty of retailers with expedited shipping options now, and I've
long preferred say, Newegg, over Amazon for technology products.

I'm canceling my Prime. I don't even own a Chromecast, or any iOS devices, but
I'm not going to support a company throwing its weight around in this abusive
manner, even if it's entirely legal.

(It is not without irony that I write this, because one of the reasons Amazon
is doing this is the Apple tax on digital goods, which is why I don't purchase
iOS devices for personal use. The idea that Apple should get a 30% cut of
everything that flows through an iPhone or iPad is insane to me.)

~~~
yohui
Newegg's staunch opposition to patent trolls is nice, too:
[http://blog.newegg.com/newegg-vs-patent-trolls-when-we-
win-y...](http://blog.newegg.com/newegg-vs-patent-trolls-when-we-win-you-win/)

------
paul
This is ridiculous. Google should delist Amazon.com to "avoid customer
confusion" when searchers land there and can't buy a chromecast ;)

Their explanation is just insulting.

~~~
wyldfire
> Their explanation is just insulting.

Do they really need to explain their actions here to anyone? They don't owe
Apple and Google a spot in their inventory.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Do they really need to explain their actions here to anyone?

Well, potentially to the FTC.

~~~
res0nat0r
Why? Amazon isn't required to carry every product everyone on HN deems
important. McDonald's isn't required to carry Pepsi products because someone
likes Mountain Dew.

To your follow up: some kind of anti-competitive explanation for why Amazon
shouldn't be allow to do this isn't really going to hold any water in this
case.

------
hypocrt
This is a trojan horse PR move to expose Apple's longstanding "customer
confusion" argument for excluding competitive products (think Amazon MP3
downloads) from the App Store.

If what Apple has been doing for years is legal, so is this, and Apple can't
complain without exposing complete hypocrisy.

In my view, Amazon _wants_ to be forced back from this position in a
precedent-setting way. This is Jeff Bezos's long-shot attempt to finally tear
down the wall of Apple's closed marketplace.

~~~
threeseed
I don't understand. Amazon Music IS on the app store:

[https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/amazon-music-with-prime-
musi...](https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/amazon-music-with-prime-
music/id510855668?mt=8)

~~~
Flimm
Is Amazon Music (streaming) the same as Amazon MP3 (selling downloads)?

------
modeless
They refuse to make the Prime Video app available on the Play Store, they
refuse to add Chromecast support, and now they refuse to even sell Chromecast
because of their _own_ decision to not support it? I've just canceled my Prime
subscription and I hope a few others do as well.

~~~
TrunkleBob
I thought the reason the video app wasn't in the Play store was due to them
having to give Google a cut of every sale if they did that?

~~~
modeless
I think you're confusing Google with Apple. The Play Store's policies are much
more reasonable, and allow third party payment processors for purchasing
digital items that can be consumed outside of the app itself. In fact, here's
a third party video store on the Play Store [1], and here's Amazon's own Prime
Music app [2].

[1]
[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=air.com.vudu.a...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=air.com.vudu.air.DownloaderTablet)
[2]
[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.amazon.mp3](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.amazon.mp3)

------
RIMR
Well, if I needed a reason not to buy a Fire Stick, here it is.

If you can't sell your product without striking down competitor's products,
than clearly your competitors have a better product.

~~~
sandGorgon
Does anyone here have a Kindle Fire Stick? It seems to already have dual band,
has double the memory/ghz of a chromecast and most importantly - does not need
a phone or computer to work. It comes with an independent remote control and
built in apps to run. Plus, it already has Spotify. I'm wondering why you
would get the Chromecast over the Fire Stick.

~~~
RIMR
I always have a phone, tablet or computer within reach, so it's not a problem
to have no dedicated remote (one less thing cluttering my living room,
actually).

I also use legal-greyarea services like Put.io, which only work on Chromecast
because of how open the ecosystem is.

Before this I used a Boxee Box, which I preferred over the competitors because
you could load it full of homebrew (including Put.io).

The Chromecast is most-used HDMI device in my house, because it works with
everything I use.

~~~
bduerst
Put.io is such a good service it hurts - it usually takes 60 seconds to go
from thinking about watching just about any movie to streaming it on your TV
via chromecast. It kind of annoys me that I didn't think of setting something
up that was similar.

~~~
discordance
Put.io's terms are a bit scary for the regular illegal use it's usually
advertised for -

'Put.io may disclose specific contact information when we determine that such
disclosure is necessary to comply with law, to cooperate with or seek
assistance from law enforcement or to protect the interests or safety of
Put.io or other visitors to the site or users of the Services. Also, your
contact information may be passed on to a third party in the event of a
merger, acquisition, consolidation, divestiture, or a bankruptcy of Put.io.'

------
mjt0229
I worked at Amazon for a while, and I was in a number of meetings with a
number of senior executives, and I heard them ask, "What's better for the
customer?". This move makes me think they've gotten out of the habit of asking
that question.

~~~
brad0
It's Amazon's first leadership principle:
[http://www.amazon.jobs/principles](http://www.amazon.jobs/principles)

I think Amazon is hitting the ceiling of what it can achieve - it's no longer
following the system that got it so big and they're having to resort to
systems like Amazon Flex to still be able to provide delivery on time.

------
Jyaif
This is gold: "It’s important that the streaming media players we sell
interact well with Prime Video in order to avoid customer confusion."

~~~
isomorphic
The new AppleTV has an App Store. Does this mean Amazon can't or won't create
an app for Prime Video for the AppleTV? (Can't or won't, either answer would
be telling.)

~~~
cordite
If a device comes with a useable app store, I'd rather it not come with tons
of bloatware for every service ever out of the box.

At this point it just seems Amazon is touting their weight.

~~~
robwilliams
This move is obviously them using their position in the marketplace but I
would imagine they would avoid the App Store as Apple takes a significant
chunk of every purchase.

~~~
cordite
But, you don't pay for the app, you shouldn't need to pay for the app--much
like Netflix. The service is separate.

~~~
r00fus
Your problem is perspective... Amazon Prime video doesn't want to become
Netflix. They're more like a loss leader for the non-free purchases... And
that's where Amazon makes its money from video.

------
rjv
Surely it's Amazon's fault that Prime Video doesn't work on Chromecast. Amazon
would get a lot more of my digital goods dollars if they took a "Kindle"
approach to streaming video -- make it available everywhere.

~~~
livejamie
Of course it's their fault, it's their own product?

------
radley
Odd way to say thanks to Google for providing open source Android OS to build
out their platform.

~~~
ocdtrekkie
Google didn't really "provide" it. By open sourcing it, anyone can use it,
Amazon has no reason to thank them. On the contrary, Google has used the
"incompatible" excuse to refuse to let Kindle users have access to Google
Apps.

I think Amazon is fighting back with their strength (Amazon.com) against
device platforms that use similar tactics but are much larger in the device
market.

Whether it's a good idea, that's questionable. Google is violating antitrust
law, but by doing this... so is Amazon.

------
atomicbeanie
Because Apple will not have difficulty fulfilling orders for its products on
the Internet itself, I doubt anyone could claim Amazon is in violation of the
rule of reason:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_antitrust_law#Ru...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_antitrust_law#Rule_of_reason)

That said, this is only true of companies like Apple, who already have access
to favorable terms to resources like UPS, etc. I think the much more important
question is whether Amazon will assume this privilege with other companies and
markets that _will_ be adversely affected by such policies.

I think Amazon has little to gain in trying to boost its sales by reducing the
competition of Apple on its own web site store. What they have to loose is the
faith that people have invested in Amazon in being a market creation and fair
access vehicle.

If companies cannot help keep the Internet open and available to all, then
they're going to have to shut up later when they are riddled with regulations,
tort and legal bills. Not to mention the obvious ire of their loyal customers
(myself among them).

I sure hope Amazon's web analytics pick up this comment :-) I won't give them
the benefit of sending it to them directly. They obviously are more interested
in their interests, not my interest in comparing devices directly on their web
site.

~~~
atomicbeanie
I would also add, that once Amazon's product teams have protection from the
competition, they are going to evolve to be less competitive. Moving to an
easier league, never makes a team better :-)

------
drewg123
What really, really irks me about this is that Amazon _ALREADY HAS_ an Android
TV app. They were (apparently) contractually obligated to Sony to supply it
for their TVs, and it works perfectly well on Sony Android TV based Smart TVs.
It was possible to sideload this app on other Android TV devices until Amazon
put a halt to it.

See [http://www.androidpolice.com/2015/05/16/amazon-disables-
the-...](http://www.androidpolice.com/2015/05/16/amazon-disables-the-instant-
video-apk-for-non-sony-android-tv-devices-because-they-hate-you-and-your-
money/)

I wonder if Netflix should be scared. The next thing you know, they might ban
competing video services from running on aws ...

~~~
discodave
If Amazon ever banned competitors from running on AWS it would pretty much be
the end of AWS.

------
chedabob
"It’s important that the streaming media players we sell interact well with
Prime Video in order to avoid customer confusion."

What a load of rubbish. They could make it work on those devices but they
choose not to.

It's a ploy to get Prime users to buy Fire sticks and nothing more.

~~~
Zelphyr
I agree.

I bought a Fire Stick and promptly returned it because it is garbage.

------
c3534l
This sounds like anti-competitive behavior. Even if legal, as someone who
spends literally thousands of dollars a year on their site and have been for
over a decade now, this will cause me to look for alternatives. I admired
amazon because they were often aggressively pro-customer. But this move will
not benefit their customers. They may well wind up destroying the customer
loyalty they've built up over the years with this really stupid decision.

~~~
eco
> ...look for alternatives.

What kind of serious alternatives are there to Amazon? There is Monoprice and
Newegg for electronics and accessories. I just heard about Jet on Planet Money
which sounded interesting. Anyone have any general shopping sites they like?

------
donohoe
Wouldn't it be great if Google de-indexed links to pages regarding Amazon
Prime citing the same reason "in order to avoid customer confusion."?

~~~
balls187
That would instantly backfire on google.

Amazon isn't a search engine that indexes the web. It's a ecommerce site, and
ultimately is allowed to carry the products they want to carry.

This is _only_ specific to Apple & Google video streaming devices, not all
Apple & Google products.

~~~
cracoucax
Except they're also a marketplace and they require their vendors to ban the
same products.

It's not an ecommerce strategy, they're very clearly using their huge leverage
as the #1 ecommerce on the internet to attack their competitors and lure
customers into their walled garden.

I'm pretty sure in my country this will be forbidden by antitrust laws.

~~~
balls187
> I'm pretty sure in my country this will be forbidden by antitrust laws.

On the surface, perhaps.

However from the article, this is in response to seemingly anti-competitive
practices by both Apple and Google's strategies regarding Amazon Prime on
their TV devices.

Apple and Google are acting like walled gardens, and so Amazon is retaliating.
My guess is Amazons desired outcome is Apple and Google support Amazon Prime
video Apple TV and Chromecast.

Edit to add: this comment was pulled out of the ether. Disregard.

~~~
dragonwriter
> However from the article, this is in response to seemingly anti-competitive
> practices by both Apple and Google's strategies regarding Amazon Prime on
> their TV devices.

The article doesn't say that at all. The Amazon statement quoted in the
article says that the items don't "work well" with Prime Video, but doesn't
blame that on "anti-competitive practices" by Apple or Google -- which is
good, because the reason it doesn't work on Chromecast, at least, is simply
that Amazon has chosen not to implement Chromecast support -- and it doesn't
work on Android TV devices, except Sony Smart TVs, because Amazon has
_actively blocked those devices_.

Apple does have generally stronger controls, and it may be that there is an
Apple policy issue affecting Prime on Apple TV, but I suspect that that's not
the case, and that, as for Chromecast, Apple TV doesn't "work well" with Prime
because Amazon has made a decision not to have it work well with Prime.

> My guess is Amazons desired outcome is Apple and Google support Amazon Prime
> video Apple TV and Chromecast.

If Amazon wants Chromecast to support Amazon Prime, all they have to do is
build support for the Chromecast API into Amazon Prime mobile and/or Web apps.

~~~
balls187
Man, I can't for the life of me figure out where I pulled that idea out of.
You're right. Article makes no mention of why.

------
asteadman
So, as a Canadian, where does this leave me? I have an amazon prime account
(on amazon.ca), but I don't have access to Prime Video (because Canada). Are
they seriously going to de-list chromecasts on amazon.ca because of the
potential "customer confusion" of a service they don't even offer here?

------
apricot
"To avoid customer confusion". That's not even _good_ bullshit.

------
outside1234
Let the evilness begin!

Seriously though, isn't this just asking for an anti-trust investigation?
Especially in the EU, where it is more focused on competition inhibiting
actions.

~~~
rubidium
I was wondering about anti-trust issues too. Seems to be a pretty clear case
of using dominance in one area (online shopping) to try and increase dominance
in another area (online video streaming).

------
TheMagicHorsey
I think the fact that almost everyone here agrees that this is a mistake, but
that Amazon still thinks its a good strategy illustrates a common problem with
big organizations that have diversified focuses.

The retail arm of Amazon wants to be the best it can be. That means stocking
the best stuff.

The video arm of Amazon wants to be the best it can be. That means getting its
content storefront in the homes of as many customers as it possibly can.

The problem is when the two arms have aims that are in conflict. Then one arm
tries to drag the other arm towards its interest, and hampers that arm from
doing the best it can do.

That's when a single-minded, and focused organization kicks the butt of the
arm of the big company.

Yes, there are advantages of scale and cross-selling within big companies. But
it seems to me that these days those advantages are far outweighed by these
cross-purposed interests hampering product development.

------
uncoder0
They won't even sell Chromecast or Apple TV? Wow. Now I'm sure they'll never
support them for Prime Video. I was really looking forward to watching 'The
House of Cars' or whatever the Top Gear trio call their new show. I won't buy
a Fire TV for just that show though. It is a real pain in the ass that as a
paying prime customer since launch I have to rip videos from their service in
order to watch them on my TV.

------
martin-adams
I disagree with this. If Amazon want to avoid customer confusion, then make
the products show a 'Amazon Prime Video Compatibility' notice on the product
page.

But where does it stop. Do they start banning gaming devices, tablets, etc?
Will music players be next, and e-readers?

It feels like this is Amazon's way to get those vendors to take note and
consider and integration, or calling their bluff because they failed in their
corporate negotiations to make that work.

Having said that though, I do feel it's unfortunate that to run the Amazon App
store on my Android phone I have to leave the phone in an insecure state
because Android only officially supports the Google Play Store. It feels like
both are battling with each other and doing it in a very public way by harming
the consumer experience.

------
devit
There should be laws that force anyone who owns a platform without any perfect
replacements (which includes all two-sided markets) to allow any legal and
non-fraudulent content, products, businesses or people on it at non-
discriminatory costs.

Amazon should be forced allow selling anything legal, Apple should be forced
to allow any legal apps, Facebook should not be allowed to ban people, Paypal
should not be allowed to freeze accounts, Google should be forced to allow
anyone to use AdSense and allow anyone to advertise on it, Airbnb should be
forced to allow anyone to list properties, etc.

Without these laws, our freedom and our ability to participate in the economy
is at the mercy of whatever company wins the lottery and becomes the owner of
the dominant platform in a niche.

~~~
wrsh07
This is not a good idea.

Should Amazon be forced to sell Confederate flags if they find them immoral?
Curated app stores are a _good_ thing for users. Should Apple be forced to
compromise the quality of their user experience because of random laws? And
Airbnb being forced to allow anyone to list properties seems like a major
safety issue.

There will always be competitors to Amazon, and it's ridiculous to suggest
that them not selling something means you're freedom is being compromised.
Neither Google nor Apple will suffer from this move, and people can buy those
products from other reputable vendors.

Besides, one of the barriers to competing with Amazon was a good payments
system, and that has largely been solved in recent years.

~~~
logfromblammo
Being forced to sell something is quite a bit of moral distance away from
being forced to allow anyone to set up a stall in your bazaar, regardless of
the products they may be selling from it.

If I wanted to buy a Confederate battle flag, it shouldn't be any more
difficult for me to do so than buying a 50-star US stars and stripes flag, or
a pirate jolly roger flag, or a UK union jack flag, or a North Korean flag, or
a rainbow hippy peace-sign flag. A meta-merchant based out of the US should
simply not be able to discriminate based on content, unless it also wishes to
assume legal responsibility for those things it _does_ allow to be sold in its
marketplace. Someone, somewhere, will want to sell what I want to buy, and it
is no more Amazon's place to prevent us from doing business on their general-
purpose e-commerce platform than it is AT&T's or Verizon's place to prevent us
from talking over their phone networks.

The instant you pull CSA flags from your marketplace, everything else becomes
a de facto Amazon-approved product. Like ISIS propaganda magazines. Whoops,
better ban that, too. Eventually, it reaches the point where some employee has
to decide whether a fill-in-the-blanks legal boilerplate form can be sold by a
merchant that is not a licensed attorney in the buyer's state.

Because if Amazon removed some offensive or illegal products, customers may
rely on that when shopping, and assume that anything else bought from Amazon
must therefore be legal and non-offensive. If Amazon wants to do that, fine.
But do it on curated.amazon.com or only.amazon.com rather than the main
www.amazon.com site. Maybe I'll go there if I only want to see stuff sold
directly by Amazon without having to check that box in the search results
every time.

Curated marketplaces are fine, but only so long as there is a free, uncurated
alternative. I think Apple _should_ be forced to allow uncurated stores (like
Cydia) or curated-by-someone-else stores (perhaps a Google Play for iOS) for
those who wish to assume the additional risks posed by such offerings. They
are certainly allowed to preload their own store, and make it the default, but
if I want to take my property out of the walled garden, they had damned well
better unlock the gates and let me leave.

In my opinion, the extent to which the platform is completely neutral is
inversely proportional to the responsibility the platform operators have for
the things that make use of it. Of course, by this theory, if Silk Road had
not policed its black market listings at all, it could not have been shut down
for promoting commerce in outlawed goods and services.

~~~
rodgerd
> If I wanted to buy a Confederate battle flag, it shouldn't be any more
> difficult for me to do so than buying a 50-star US stars and stripes flag

Funny you don't make more apt comparisons, like a Waffen SS battle standard,
or an ISIL flag.

~~~
logfromblammo
Cherry picking. Each flag is its own thing, with its own baggage. They are,
most of them, devices to convince people do horrible things without feeling
personally responsible for doing them.

The French flag now is the same as the flag of the First Republic, and the one
that flew over the Reign of Terror. The Turkish flag, as the flag of the
Ottoman Empire, flew over the Armenian, Assyrian, and Greek genocides. The
Soviet flag flew over the genocides of Cossacks, Ukrainians, and Chechens, and
the mass deportations of Lithuanians, Latvians, and Estonians. The 24-star US
flag "Old Glory" flew over the Trail of Tears.

If you banned a flag every time something horrible happened under it, all of
our flagpoles would be empty, not just the people from the American South. But
then, the next time a group wants to come together and do something horrible
without bearing a burden of guilt afterward, they will just hoist an all-new
flag to shield them from their shame.

Or maybe they will do something great, and share that glory through their
shared standard. It has happened, at times. Digging the Suez canal. Digging
the Panama canal. Landing on the Moon. Establishing institutions to support
the common welfare. Building transcontinental railroads. Universal literacy
campaigns. Some of those things were made possible by a manufactured sense of
ideological kinship.

Let us not forget that flags are just symbols, and identifying marks, whose
meanings are interpreted entirely in the eye of the beholder. The flag that is
placed on Memorial Day, on the grave of a man who died under it, may look the
same as one that is carried at a white supremacist rally, but only one ought
to be offensive to a descendant of Confederate-owned slaves. We do not have a
duty to shield others from emotional distress, by attempting to prevent the
latter from being sold.

If you ban one flag, you either have to draw a line around acceptable levels
of offensiveness that originated under any given flag, or you have to ban them
all. Deciding where that line goes is _very difficult_ to do fairly.

------
libraryatnight
If this is the beginning of a trend then I won't be a Prime customer much
longer. If they don't sell the products I want, then I don't care if I have
free super fast shipping and the value goes out the window. I could care less
about their video services. I have Netflix and Hulu, it's been months since I
watched something on Prime video.

------
danmaz74
This reminded me that I'm using Amazon too much lately. Time to give some
juice to the competition, for my own future good.

~~~
gdulli
A while back I noticed my last Amazon purchase was in late December 2014. I
set a goal of not making a single Amazon purchase in calendar 2015. I'm on
track and it hasn't been difficult at all.

~~~
chx
The problem is AmazonGlobal. There's extremely little competition in this
space. If I order from abroad (I am in Canada) then the courier will charge me
a ridiculous amounts of money to process customs
([http://www.ups.com/content/ca/en/shipping/cost/zones/customs...](http://www.ups.com/content/ca/en/shipping/cost/zones/customs_clearance.html)
twenty percent, easily!). If I order from amazon.com / .de / whatever then at
checkout I will pay all the necessary import fees and taxes (very low usually)
and no customs processing fees. As far as I am aware, only eBay has a similar
Global Shipping program.

~~~
apricot
I found that by asking the seller to use the USPS instead of a courier
company, I could avoid brokerage fees and sometimes even duty/import fees as
well. Not all sellers will agree to use USPS, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

~~~
chx
Canada Post will also charge a fee.

------
pw
This does kinda feel like Amazon jumping the shark, particularly in light of
claimed "customer obsession" and and that "Leaders start with the customer and
work backwards."
([http://www.amazon.jobs/principles](http://www.amazon.jobs/principles))

------
RockyMcNuts
Amazon needs to do a better job of explaining why they think Apple TV and
Chromecast's restrictions are unfair.

Amazon's streaming is pretty good, I certainly wouldn't buy a device that
doesn't support Prime Video.

Roku is pretty good, supports everything except Apple streaming AFAIK. One
could make a pretty good argument Apple is the one locking people out.

But it might come across as Amazon throwing their weight around to hurt a
competitor, which it doesn't even accomplish since there are so many other
alternatives to buy those products.

~~~
MichaelGG
What's stopping Amazon from making Prime work on Chromecast? Even freebie apps
in the Play Store stream just fine to Chromecast.

~~~
RockyMcNuts
geez, I dunno...that's why they really have to be more clear.

Picture I had was, Apple was a walled garden, you bought Roku, Chromecast,
Amazon Fire TV, it worked on everything but Apple TV.

Seems like it will be a full-fledged shooting platform war now.

------
ericfrederich
Amazon and Google are both ruining Android.

Amazon for apps that arbitrarily only work on their hardware is awful, forcing
customers to buy multiple devices (no Amazon Video on the Nexus Player).
Google for not making the play store installable on non-Google approved
hardware. At least the Amazon app store is made available as a download from
Amazon even if Amazon Video won't work on your device.

~~~
MichaelGG
You've got it backwards on Google Play. If Google had taken a bit of a
stronger arm in the beginning, we wouldn't have the fragmentation and shitty
experience (Huawei's crap UI, Samsung's crap UI, etc.) that we have today.
Google's slowly trying to clean it up, and perhaps the few-restrictions early
play was a Trojan Horse. But opening Android up now would certainly be a
mistake as it'd only further encourage OEMs to screw it up.

Look at Microsoft and how much they suffered at the hands of terrible OEMs.

~~~
Spivak
Look, if you want an iPhone, just buy one. You're describing their business
model exactly.

Having a walled garden is great up until the point they start making decisions
you don't like. And usually by that point you don't have any control to stop
them.

------
javajosh
The idealists here call it a mistake, violating various capitalist principles.
The clever argument against Amazon is that they are betraying that they think
their product is weak, and can't stand competition.

The deeper, more pragmatic issue is that this is a browser war. The browsers
are weird because they are TV dongles. Some hardware manufacturers want to
give us browsers that only work for some sites.

I pay Netflix $20/mo to synchronize some of their streams into my brain,
through a complicated path involving a world-wide internet, LEDs, and my eye-
balls. Why does the hardware path through which those bits flow have to
matter? Netflix, Prime, HBO, Comedy Central - aren't all of these just sources
of those stream?

My question is whether all of this is because Prime won't support certain
hardware paths, or because certain hardware won't support Prime. (Given what I
know about Chromecast, I'd say it's the former).

------
jlarocco
The best way to increase usage of their video streaming would be to make the
interface suck less.

Finding shows and videos is a pain in the ass, and it's very difficult to find
shows and there's no way to find shows or movies that I've previously watched,
even if I didn't finish them.

I've been working my way through all of the Twilight Zone episodes, and even
after completely watching seasons 1, 2, 3, and half of season 5, it still
doesn't show up as suggested for me or anything. I have to search for it every
single night, and the shows don't even show up in the top results, I have to
scroll half way down the page to find it.

And then a lot of shows are missing a random season or two. The Twilight Zone
is missing season 4, for example.

I only use it because I already have prime and don't watch enough to pay for
Netflix. If I had to pay, I'd use something else.

------
lisianne
Didn't expect this. It sets a wrong precedent and bad signal to Amazon
partners. Let us say I have a software product in aws marketplace that
competes with one of their core aws offerings successfully will they kick me
out?

This action doesn't give much confidence they won't do that

------
tdees40
That sound you're hearing is DOJ lawyers clearing their calendars for the rest
of the year. They're going to have some work to do.

------
madrox
Why is it when Apple does this to an app for the same reasons, it's ok?

I suspect their announcement was a copy/paste of Apple's Kindle app rejection
on the app store (when it included the option to buy books).

~~~
stock_toaster
Amazon pulled the kindle app's ability to purchase books, because to continue
to do so they would have had to pay Apple the standard 30% cut. Amazon did not
want to pay that. So they chose to instead to remove the ability for customers
to purchase books inside the app.

------
jhspaybar
What are they thinking? Surely this must do more damage to seller goodwill
than any supposed customer benefit?

~~~
pgrote
I don't know.

You have to cast your lot with one of the 3 when you start leasing digital
material. I went with Amazon for the belief they would be neutral when it came
to hardware. Over the last year they have chosen to be protective.

I won't cancel prime since I enjoy the benefits, but it is a pita. What it
really comes down to is less digitial video leased for me.

------
moron4hire
Perhaps AMZN being a single company that provides a retail store and provides
video streaming and provides hardware designs and provides software isn't in
the best interest of the public.

------
nsxwolf
Is Apple going to refuse to let Amazon publish a Prime Video app on the new
Apple TV? That's what they seem to be implying by saying a device doesn't
"support" it.

------
Merovius
It's not only about non-prime-customers either. I am a prime customer, but I
don't use the video streaming, because amazon is a retailer for me. I go there
to buy stuff and I use prime to buy stuff cheaper (and more). It's bad enough
that they actually force me to buy the video streaming if I want the cheap and
convenient buying (which, incidentally, is such a turnoff, that I won't be a
prime customer in the future which will pretty much kill my amazon buying
habbit).

~~~
oaktowner
This.

I'd gladly pay for a Prime product that was $10/mo cheaper and didn't include
streaming. I _never_ use Prime Video Streaming (precisely because Amazon won't
enable streaming to Chromecast).

------
InclinedPlane
Congratulations, you fucked up. A lot.

What is Amazon built on? How does it work? Oh, you think it's built on web
services running on cloud architecture. On fulfillment centers, supply chains,
and all of that jazz. But that's only half of the equation, the other half is
customer loyalty. Customers are loyal because Amazon is, in turn, loyal to
them. Returns are mostly painless. Most problems are handled quickly with the
customer feeling satisfied they've been taken care of. And Amazon has the best
selection of stuff at the best prices and the smoothest transition from
exchanging money for a product to having that product in your hands a short
time later.

That customer-company bond is what keeps Amazon humming. And Amazon works
hard, damned hard, to maintain it. They continually refine the fulfillment,
ordering, and delivery process to make it easier, more reliable, friendlier,
and faster. That's a multi-billion dollar investment, and it keeps people
using amazon even though there are tons of other ways to buy the same stuff.

And yet here you have part of Amazon making the spectacularly poor choice to
abuse and tear down that relationship for the tiniest and most dubious of
returns. It would be so easy for Amazon to turn into a typical customer-hating
corporation, there are so many opportunities for it. But any advantage that
seems to buy in the short-term is going to be pissed away by a diminished view
of Amazon in the eyes of customers.

I've been an Amazon customer since _1996_ , and I'm seriously considering
cancelling my prime account because of this bullshit.

------
Zikes
Isn't this anti-competitive?

~~~
bryanlarsen
Sure, but you're allowed to be anti-competitive as long you're not in a
monopoly position in the marketplace.

~~~
pm24601
No. The only requirement is a "dominant" player.
[https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/anticompetitive-
practices](https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/anticompetitive-practices)

This is the reason why Microsoft and Google have both been investigated for
anti-competitive behavior even though neither one of them was a monopoly.

The Sherman Act prohibits using a dominant position in one area as leverage to
exclude competitors in the same or different area.

In other words, a dominant player has to play (more than) fair in any new
markets.

I say "more than" because if Amazon was not so dominate in ecommerce this
behavior would be perfectly fine.

------
spdustin
So there goes my hopes of a Amazon Instant Video app for the new Apple TV. Not
that my hopes were too high, but it would've simplified my cable cutting to
reduce down to a single device. With native apps and AirPlay mirroring, the
new Apple TV was set to be my family's single set top box, but we have a
number of kid movies and shows on Amazon Instant Video, and last I checked,
there's no support for AirPlay there, so I guess I'm going to have "lose"
those kid's movies I licensed on Amazon.

I'm really not getting this - unless they have numbers to back up that their
FireTV is in more households than ChromeCast (I don't know anyone non-
technical who has one, so that's not tough) AND Apple TV (many of my non-
technical friends have one), I don't see the point in this. Why not just
release the instant video app for Apple TV, or support mirroring via AirPlay
and whatever the name is for Android's mirroring nowadays, and be done with
it?

Edit: removed Apple logo glyphs - it was an autocorrect shortcut I had on my
phone.

~~~
Lx1oG-AWb6h_ZG0
Is this a new trend, using the emoji instead of spelling out "apple"? (It's
just rendering as square-box TV in chrome on windows, which is really ironic
given the subject of discussion.)

------
mark_l_watson
The largest reason this is a bad idea for Amazon is that right now is an
important time for the "competition of the walled gardens" \- I don't expect
any of Apple, Google, or Amazon to do a winner take all, but someone is going
to end up winning most of this pie.

I am a tech nut, and have been since I first got to try programming a computer
in the early 1960s. However I am getting tired of too much tech diversity. I
have my Music collection on three different services (Amazon cloud, Google
music, and Apple). Amazon cloud has the widest coverage over my devices, but I
could see myself in the future choosing one vendor. I also subscribe to
Netflix, Hulu, and HBO Go. Three walled gardens is getting to be tedious.

I have had my issues with Apple in the past, but Apple probably has the best
shot of providing most everything that I need sometme in the future. Right
now, Siri is far beyond Google Now as an AI assistant but that may change.
Amazon Echo's Alexa is pretty good, but a really narrow context.

Stuff like not carrying rival's products is probably a bad move.

------
deserted
I'm getting mixed messages here. Amazon won't sell these devices because they
don't allow Prime video streaming. Meanwhile, Amazon disabled Prime instant
video on the Google TV, even though it's been working for several years. Do
they want these devices to support Prime Instant Video or not?

------
kertof
Ironically, Netflix is running on AWS.

~~~
davb
I think this is a bit like Apple using Samsung SoCs. The consumer-facing parts
of the business hate each other; the B2B units have a more reasonable view of
each other.

------
thrownaway2424
The branding here is awful, there exists confusion on the part of the public,
the press, the commentators here, and even the executives from Amazon. Isn't
their streaming video service called "Amazon Instant Video"? Isn't Prime
simply a feature whereby a tiny fragment of their video catalog is provided at
no additional charge to Prime subscribers? Isn't the entire rest of the
catalog available on a pay-per-view or purchase basis?

Everybody here is saying "Prime Video" but I can't imagine that's a major
revenue stream for Amazon or a major source of entertainment for anyone else.
If you only watched what's available to Prime subscribers you'd run out of
things worth watching fairly quickly.

------
wnevets
Wow, who was the genius that came up with this idea? I was literally just
talking about how annoying it is that prime video doesn't work with
chromecast. Is breaking my habit of checking amazon first when ordering online
really worth propping up prime video?

------
MCRed
Remember, this is Amazon. A PR machine whose primary product is their stock.
The Amazon web store is almost an afterthought.

I will bet that in a year these devices will be on sale there. (Amazon's going
to give up selling the iPhone? Yeah right!)

This is just PR generated clickbait.

------
WCityMike
You know, it's kind of worth noting that Amazon's not the only culprit for
this kind of behavior. Unlike Android, you can't buy a book through the iOS
Kindle app because Apple has banned apps that directly compete with its own
services.

~~~
solomone
That's not correct. Apple doesn't allowing purchasing digital goods through a
non-apple payment method. The margins are so low for Amazon it doesn't make
sense to give apple 30% for every kindle book purchased.

------
51Cards
Also canceling my Prime membership. I would hope this comes to the eyes of the
antitrust bureau as well as it seems like a fairly strong case. If Google de-
listed Amazon from their results for having a competing product it would be
huge news.

------
lerxst
I bought several cheaper Apple products, including an Apple TV, on Amazon
because of my Prime membership. While the user experience is not the best for
these products (especially the higher end laptops; how often is NEWEST VERSION
updated?), it provides a way for Amazon customers to quickly purchase Apple
products with a stored CC and take advantage of their Prime two day shipping.
I am not going to boycott Amazon because of this, but it does make me question
Amazon's leadership and decision-making. Now I think of them as the one stop
shop for everything except for Apple products. Adding exceptions for products
like this is a slippery slope.

------
mkhpalm
I find this interesting considering I wanted to stream amazon instant video on
my android devices... but you can't do that unless you buy one of their
kindle/fire android devices or something iOS. Not sure if that has since
changed these days, I eventually got tired of waiting and moved on to other
services that weren't held hostage to devices I didn't want. I would have
thought this is a great lesson about bad decisions. Killing the strongest
components of Amazon for the weakest. Somewhat concerning strategy if you ask
me. Guess I'll start buying more things from google and apple stores.

------
ypcx
As an expat living in Greece, I frequently shop on the German Amazon site,
where Amazon's Fire TV and Stick are pretty much destroying all competition,
excluding perhaps Roku. However being from a different EU country, I can order
neither Roku nor Prime. Not a huge problem for me since I'm 100% YouTube, but
both Roku and Prime devices seem to have superior YouTube leanback performance
over Chromecast (tried) and pretty much any Android TV box (didn't try). I'm
currently waiting for my Nexus Player to arrive, I guess I've ordered it just
in time.

------
port6667
I didn't understand prime video. I tried to watch a movie when i had prime,
following their link for the "free videos!"

Only to find that it was 5 bucks for every stream or something. Ok. Searched
out ghostbusters or something older, guess what? $5. Also no way to sort by
free for prime, at least not then.

Don't have prime anymore, and these days amazon is around 10-15% more than
what you can easily google elsewhere. Miss the shipping priority though, but
as soon as you drop prime, expect them to wait 7 days before bothering to
package your stuff and ship it out.

------
user_235711
This definitely seems like a bad move, and not very customer-centric. It
reminds me of when they disabled the download of any mobile browser
alternatives in the 2nd-Generation Kindle Fire in order to push their Silk
browser (which itself was terrible nearly to the point of being unusable).
This is not to say that Amazon Instant Video is not a great service. It's
pretty awesome IMO. But forcing people who want alternatives to seek them out
elsewhere will just inconvenience them and drive them away from amazon.com.

------
Johnny555
If you're a Prime customer, this would be a good time to leave them feedback
and let them know what you think about this policy:

[https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/contact-
us](https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/contact-us)?

I understand Amazon not wanting to sell competing products themselves, but
preventing Marketplace sellers from selling them goes over the line. Amazon
shouldn't dictate which (legal) products that Marketplace sellers sell.

~~~
commandar
Thanks for the link. I emailed them making it very clear that I'd be a non-
renewal and taking every penny of the several thousand dollars per year I
normally spend with Amazon elsewhere if they stay the course on this one.

------
ohitsdom
"Video-streaming devices" is very broad, and it shows how silly this decision
is. Same argument can be applied to computers of any kind (tablets, laptops,
desktops).

------
g8oz
Note to self: Stallman's fatwas are always right

[https://www.stallman.org/amazon.html](https://www.stallman.org/amazon.html)

------
leroy_masochist
"It’s important that the streaming media players we sell interact well with
Prime Video in order to avoid customer confusion."

It's a good thing my main man Jeff B has my back, otherwise God only knows
what kind of confusion would ensue.

Update: sorry for redundantly making a point that a half-dozen others have
already made on this thread....but really, this is just epic shamelessness. I
mean, this is like Microsoft-in-the-mid-90's-level shamelessness.

------
nyc_cyn
After reading Bezos' biography a few weeks ago, this sounds like something
that he would never, ever do. Amazon is the everything store. What's going on?

------
LordKano
I'm happy that I went with Roku.

I think that this is an underhanded move on Amazon's part but it's not beneath
what Apple or Google would do in their position.

~~~
ndhc3
>it's not beneath what Apple or Google would do in their position.

Explain.

~~~
LordKano
Based on their previous behavior in the marketplace, Apple and Google aren't
above refusing to sell something they once sold if it's not in their own best
interests to continue selling it.

------
cuillevel3
Is that even legal in the EU? Isn't that the same behaviour that got Google
into trouble, allegedly putting their own products in front of others?

------
kqr2
Amazon has flexed its muscle in a similar way with its selling of books -- it
temporarily made it difficult or impossible to purchase books from Hachette on
its website.

[http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/05/23/amazon-escalates-
it...](http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/05/23/amazon-escalates-its-battle-
against-hachette/?_r=0)

------
MaysonL
Have to love Gruber's snarky take on it: "LOOKS LIKE IT’S TIME FOR THE U.S.
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE TO INVESTIGATE APPLE AGAIN"

------
annasaru
Google and Apple don't sell Amazon devices on their stores, so I guess Amazon
wants to take away that advantage from its competitors.

------
ttbutz
People overestimate Amazon's dominance. Amazon is only dominant in internet
retail. In the wider retail world they're quite small. Rounded maths, Amazon
is only about 5.4% of US retail sales, and that is only including the top 10.

source: [https://nrf.com/2015/top100-table](https://nrf.com/2015/top100-table)

------
Spooky23
Bye, bye Amazon.

First the rabbit hole of going to war with UPS to launch various harebrained
schemes for delivery. Now picking stupid fights and annoying customers over
something with marginal impact to the business.

Amazon is easily replaceable, Netflix, Google and Apple, not so much.

My guess is that the corporate numbers aren't doing good as they've started
ratcheting prices up, and this is a smokescreen.

------
ycitera
Does that mean that it is Google and Apple that don't want to implement Amazon
Prime on their devices? and not the other way around

~~~
darkstar999
You should read the article to find out!

~~~
ycitera
"Amazon probably wants to teach Apple and Google a lesson about not making
their devices more compatible," Grunes said.

(Allen Grunes, a lawyer at Konkurrenz Group in Washington)

------
ChuckMcM
Kind of a sad move, I understand how someone might be convinced it was the
right one based on near term goals but longer term it will bite them.

I have a Prime account because I order a lot of stuff for business, and that
wins on shipping cost. But Prime Video wasn't ever really the motivator.

Its another part of the Amazon strategy that is opaque to me.

------
supster
This seems like a violation of anti-trust laws

------
Zhenya
Interesting. So lets think this through. If they want to make money on prime
and streaming, selling competitors products that offer this should be no
problem. Yet THEY refuse to put PrimeVideo on chromecast.

Seems like they are more interested in keeping their current customers of
competitors platforms, than expanding their reach.

Seems dumb to me.

------
jfoster
Is there a reason why Prime Video doesn't work on Chromecast and Apple TV? If
I were trying out Prime Video, the first thing I'd be doing is trying to make
it work with my Chromecast. If I find out I need to buy another Chromecast-
like device to make it work, that would work against Prime Video.

------
fitzroy
They already have apps for iOS. I can only assume this is about the 30% cut
that Apple takes for in-app digital purchases. While it doesn't matter for
Prime videos, it matters for Amazon Instant Video sales and Rentals. On iOS
they can nudge users over to Safari to buy. No such option on Apple TV.

------
draw_down
Aww, I was hoping more people here would defend the move. (I really enjoy
watching people do mental gymnastics.)

------
coliveira
I think they are just attracting bad publicity with this. I don't know about
Google's product, but when I want an Apple product I always go directly to the
Apple store. So the fact that they don't carry Apple TV makes no difference
whatsoever in my desire to buy an Apple TV.

------
chmaynard
I spent a few minutes scanning news articles about this alleged memo. It
appears that it was leaked to some news organization (Bloomberg?) by an
anonymous source. I think I'll wait for the NYT to determine if the memo is
accurate before I get all hot and bothered about it.

------
igorgue
Amazon, don't buy the hand that feeds you. If Google or Apple do something
like that against you, you're done.

We on the other hand have many many many many many other places to buy stuff
online... Too many if anything. Amazon is my favorite but I wouldn't sweat it
to buy elsewhere.

------
X-Istence
Has this feature now been removed:
[http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/17/4740080/amazon-instant-
vid...](http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/17/4740080/amazon-instant-video-
airplay-support)

------
mark-r
Yet another reason to shop at Newegg.

------
EGreg
"by ending the sale of devices from Google Inc. and Apple Inc. that aren’t
easily compatible with Amazon’s video service."

I predict they'll make it easier soon. Amazon is pulling an "easier to ask
forgiveness than permission" approach to negotiations.

~~~
dragonwriter
> I predict they'll make it easier soon.

Aside from "Amazon said it in a press release", is there any reason to think
that these services really aren't "easily compatible with Amazon's video
service"?

I mean, _lots_ of other video services support Chromecast and AppleTV, and I
haven't heard of it being particularly difficult.

------
aet
This hurts Google, but not Apple. Why ever order Apple device from Amazon.com?
Seems very risky.

------
brightball
Confederate flag, Apple and Google are all in the same bucket according to
Amazon now. Nice.

------
thecosas
Wouldn't a great solution to Amazon's "problem" with Prime Video not being
available on other platforms be to allow users of Prime Video to access it on
those other platforms?

I can't imagine they're making much on the hardware...

------
chrismarlow9
I wonder when they'll use that AWS stronghold they have to do similar things
in that industry. But that's okay, keep putting all your eggs in their
proprietary tech. It just means I'll have a job when that day comes.

------
shmerl
Use standard technologies and no DRM garbage, and all devices will work with
all services. But of course, some seem to never learn (i.e. video industry)
and even try to use different feudal lock-ins for their dirty tactics.

------
LandoCalrissian
First thing in a while I have been disappointed in from Amazon. Pretty crappy
move.

~~~
dingaling
I've been increasingly disappointed over the past year or two.

Having been an Amazon customer since 1997 ( back when they still accepted
cheques mailed-in for orders ) within the past couple of years they have
fallen to my retailer-of-last-resort position.

Many of the items we used to order are now add-ons that don't even qualify for
free delivery if bought in bulk.

Their website is now a constant hard-push for Prime. Products are pushed to
secondary positions so that they can shove Prime banners in my face. I have to
double-check every checkbox to make sure I'm not signing-up for a 'free' trial
of Prime.

If they want to push Prime so hard, just switch to being a Prime-members-only
site.

------
Zelphyr
This seems really short-sighted to me. Amazon is going to punish their own
customers because of a feud they have with their competitors? How is that
good?

More and more I question whether I want to continue doing business with
Amazon.

------
irq-1
I just want to recommend Alpha House [0], a political comedy about Republican
senators created by Garry Trudeau (Doonesbury) with lots of great cameos. Its
original/exclusive content and the kind of thing that might help Amazon,
unlike this dumb maneuver.

YouTube has a trailer (irony?):
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iXYgtIYCTg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iXYgtIYCTg)

Bill (fucking) Murray does guest bits:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa4jvMBjC8M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa4jvMBjC8M)

[0]
[https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B00CDBTVM2](https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B00CDBTVM2)

------
amaks
Fuck you, Amazon. I guess it's time to start online shopping elsewhere.

------
pixie_
It's been awhile since the last big anti-trust trial. Get the popcorn!

------
endymi0n
I heard next they are trying out a mandatory Web Application Firewall on AWS
that will shield their customers from exposing potentially malicious websites
offering non-Amazon streaming devices...

------
fma
The other streaming devices won't go away. It will be a nice boost for Best
Buy and other brick and mortar stores. While people are there, they can up
sale on cables and stuff.

------
theSoenke
I don't use Prime, because it does not work on my Chromecast.

------
zaphar
If I were Google I would offer all customers a free license to any Amazon
movies the customer already owns. A Mass exodus from Amazon to Google would
subsequently ensue.

------
msie
Amazon, Amazon, who's making all these bad decisions over there?

Edit:

There must be something about that company's culture that causes this to
happen which would be baffling to outsiders.

------
rdl
FTC will ruin them, thankfully.

This would be a horrible commercial decision anyway.

It's about as stupid as Google shitifying all of their services to push the
(ultimately unsuccessful) G+.

------
cmrdporcupine
Wonder if they'll try to pull this off on Amazon.ca and other geos, where they
have not bothered to roll out their own streaming video service.

------
funkysquid
What are some good Amazon Prime (shopping) alternatives? Yearly fee for low
cost or free fast shipping, with an inventory of pretty much everything?

~~~
Johnny555
[https://www.shoprunner.com/](https://www.shoprunner.com/) provides free 2 day
shipping from a number of merchants (including NewEgg), and is free for
American Express cardholders, otherwise it's $79/year.

------
ruok0101
If they just put some effort into their streaming user experience, they
wouldn't have to resort to these sort of tactics. Sad.

------
scosman
Google and Apple should pull the Amazon Video app from their app stores. That
would settle this in about 30 minutes...

~~~
swetland
Amazon Video is not available in the Android Market -- you have to install
Amazon's App Store App to install it, which is pretty obnoxious.

------
methehack
Hubris. There are other channels and consumers will surely find them.

And -- oops -- waddaya know, my kindle app just crashed :)

------
pm24601
Sounds like an anti-competitive move. Cue the google/apple lawsuits and FTC
investigation in 3, 2, ......

~~~
Blaaguuu
So will they also force Apple and Google to sell FireTV on their stores?
Amazon tries to look like the place where you can buy literally everything...
but they aren't legally obligated to sell anything.

~~~
pm24601
Apple and Google aren't dominant in ecommerce the way Amazon is.

The rules are different if a company is considered dominant in its market
sector.

------
j4kp07
To be fair...Google and Apple are doing the same thing to Amazon (shutting out
a competitor). Tivo and Roku both offer PrimeTV and both are sold thru Amazon.
So the theory that this is soley to block out competitors is demonstrably
false. Business is business and Amazon is biting back. Shouting "boycott"
seems extreme and won't have an affect on their bottomline anyways.

------
transfire
I don't think you understand. Amazon doesn't want to do this, but Google and
Apple are leaving them little choice b/c they are undermining Prime service on
their devices. And this is not the only place where this is happening. Have
you tried to use the YouTube app on Roku? It is all but unusable. Why? B/c
Google wants to control everything.

------
arunitc
The only reason I didn't sign up for prime was the inability to Chromecast.

------
williamstein
Could Amazon similarly ban certain competitors from using EC2? Like Netflix...

------
josscrowcroft
I don't like this one bit. I've cancelled my Prime membership on principle...

I have some way to go, but gradually I'm working to stop giving energy to
organisations that don't align with my values... even if it makes my life
marginally less convenient.

------
Elizer0x0309
Can never trust a company with similar competing products.

------
tomelders
Anti Trust. Corporate censorship.

------
curiousjorge
"Over the last three years, Prime Video has become an important part of
Prime," Amazon said in the e-mail. "It’s important that the streaming media
players we sell interact well with Prime Video in order to avoid customer
confusion."

------
wyldfire
Bloomberg's title seems a little baity. The article states, "... its
marketplace sellers that it will stop selling Apple TV and Google’s
Chromecast."

So "the everything store" will stop selling their competitors products? Not
exactly earth-shattering.

------
guelo
After considering a Chromecast and an Apple TV I went with Roku because the
main services I want are Amazon Prime Video and Netflix. If Apple and Google
are playing hardball against Amazon video this move only makes sense in a tit
for tat battle.

~~~
zaphar
How do get Apple and Google as the ones playing hardball here? Amazon is the
aggressor here not Apple or Google.

~~~
guelo
How come Amazon video isn't available on Apple TV or Chromecast?

~~~
dragonwriter
> How come Amazon video isn't available on Apple TV or Chromecast?

In the case of Chromecast, because Amazon hasn't built an app that uses the
Chromecast API, because -- the same as the move here -- Amazon wants to use
its position to promote and sell its own hardware that competes with
Chromecast.

Its not like Google prevents Amazon from using the Chromecast SDK the same as
anyone else.

------
SwellJoe
It's easy to paint Amazon as the bad actor here...and, they are. But, I think
Google and Apple are _also_ bad actors in this situation. The reason Google
and Apple TV devices have a bad Amazon Prime experience, I suspect, is because
they want a huge cut of revenue from Amazon Prime viewership (just as they
expect a huge cut of revenue for anything sold on their platform), and they
aren't being reasonable about getting it. The notion that these services can
be profitable, can pay creators a reasonable amount, and can be offered at a
fair price to consumers, while _also_ paying massive rents to the platform
owners is questionable, at best. If your margins are razor thin, having a
company demand 30% for that last mile to the customer is probably not
sustainable.

Amazon is not faultless, but it is bad actors all around in this situation.
Somebody needs to break the 30% model. I don't think this move from Amazon
will do it for the industry as a whole (though Apple and Google might work on
a compromise specifically with Amazon), but I understand entirely why they're
doing it. They're facing off against the biggest bullies in the world, who are
demanding Amazon's lunch money in the media market (not that Amazon is
treating anyone that much better on their own platform).

~~~
narrowingorbits
Nope. Incorrect. Google and Apple both have open SDKs for streaming to their
devices. Amazon has chosen not to support them

~~~
SwellJoe
Ah, then Amazon is just being an ass.

