
Eating more fruit and vegetables 'improves mental wellbeing' - open-source-ux
https://www.nhs.uk/news/food-and-diet/eating-more-fruit-and-veg-improves-mental-wellbeing/
======
wbronitsky
No, eating more fruit and vegetables is correlated with improved mental
wellbeing. In fact, the study, even though it was longitudinal, did not
dissect if increasing the amount of fruits and vegetables eaten across a
lifespan causes increased happiness even though they could have! The headline,
and TFA, are like saying having more TVs per capita causes fewer babies to
die. They are both obviously correlative, and clearly not causational.

If the UK is anything like the US, there are some obvious confounding factors,
with the most obvious being that poor people cannot afford to eat more fruit
and vegetables, and that poor people are actively persecuted in our society.
Hence you get studies that output the above headline.

This isn't really news people.

~~~
chrisco255
Fruits and veggies are among the cheapest items in any grocery store in the
United States. And we provide food stamps to poor people for this very reason.

~~~
munk-a
Home cooked fruits and veggies end up getting a lot more expensive when you
factor in frequency of shopping needed to maintain a stock and time required
to cook. I applaud everyone who manages to cook every day and I strive to do
so, but both of the people in my relationship work full time and waste about
three hours a day commuting, round it up to about twelve hours a day lost to
work - cooking and then collapsing after that is un-affordable without getting
lost in a spiral of depression.

We cook and eat well on the weekends, we try to reserve food for the week and
I continue to be amazed by people worse off than us that are working as much
as we are _and_ a part time job on top of it.

~~~
tzs
Frozen vegetables can help a lot with that, especially the miracle that is
microwave "steam in bag" frozen vegetables.

~~~
imwally
This. Around 50% of my veg and fruit intake comes from frozen organic bags.
They're cheaper, last longer, and quicker to make. My go-to lazy meals involve
throwing frozen rice, broccoli or kale, and beans in a glass bowl and heating
it up in the microwave.

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marricks
Study seemed to take a lot into account, is it really that outrageous of a
finding? Fruit and vegetables have a lot of known benefits.

We evolved from apes where most of our group are frugivores or herbivores.
Hell, if our bread wasn’t fortified with things like niacin and vitamin c most
people would have scurvy and tons of other crap wrong with them. We probably
should get more of our vitamins from the source!

~~~
futureastronaut
The keto crowd seems almost like a cult sometimes, there is pride and
defensiveness. Veganism isn't the only adopted diet people get attached to.
Like that millionaire ex-Googler's blog post the other day, sinking most time
into an "is it keto" app. It wouldn't have been out of place on The Onion.

~~~
ecshafer
Keto eats vegetables, nuts and also berries in limited amounts. Doing keto
spinach, kale, broccoli, lettuce, cauliflower, brussel sprouts, avocados,
squash and many other non starchy vegetables are core.

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shadykiller
Shouldn't we classify fruits and vegetables separately ? Modern fruit is a
huge deviation from the older times, they're almost as sweet as candy. Plus
they're always available unlike the seasonal availability in the past.

~~~
twic
This article is from a UK source, and the fruit here is mostly profoundly
unripe, and about as sweet as wet newspaper.

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SmallBets
I'm surprised so many still categorize fruits and vegetables together in these
studies and in general thinking, given all we know now about sugar.

Fruits in terms of calories are essentially sugar, and despite the fiber, more
than 1-2 a day will start to impact insulin, fat storage etc. negatively for
most people. Especially fructose-heavy fruit.

Non-starchy vegetables are not nearly as sugar or calorie dense, can be eaten
in much higher volume with little effect, and as such should be thought of
much differently than fruit.

(non-avocado) Fruit falls more in the dessert/candy category IMO.

~~~
cageface
The studies don't back this up one bit:

[https://nutritionfacts.org/2017/02/23/can-you-eat-too-
much-f...](https://nutritionfacts.org/2017/02/23/can-you-eat-too-much-fruit/)

The fiber makes all the difference in the world when it comes to metabolism of
sugars.

~~~
3131s
Anecdotal, but I have eaten 5-10 mangoes a day, among other fruits, for long
periods of time and remained at 8-10% body fat. I pay close attention to what
I eat and how it affects my body composition, and I stopped worrying about
eating too much fruit long ago.

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siedes
>"If the results are true, this gives another reason to boost your fruit and
veg intake. We already know eating these foods is good for physical health,
and this study suggests they can improve your mental health, too."

I feel like this is nothing really groundbreaking news. I don't have any
scientific sources or proofs so maybe I'm retarded, but it was always obvious
to me that physical and mental health are largely interlinked. People who
exercise regularly are more likely to have better mental health, perhaps even
regardless of their diet (counting out extreme cases). People who make an
effort to eat more fruit and veg to improve their physical health generally
are also practicing the mental discipline needed to stick to a long-term
plan/goal, which will mean better mental wellbeing as a result.

Will this study do any good to motivate people to eat more healthily? The
cynic in me tells me no, because everyone already knows fruit and veg are
good, yet many will still refuse to incorporate them into their diet and
choose to eat convenient junk instead. The people who are already eating fruit
and veg already know it is making a positive impact on their health, I guess
this is another form of confirmation for them so they can continue?

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agumonkey
When ill I couldn't eat anything beside raw food. Anything with just too much
sugar (one biscuit was enough) would make me faint.

So I ate raw lettuce; raw tomato etc etc

It changes your perception of eating. Less flashy but much more gentle and
stimulating at the same time.

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anonuser123456
On a recent Peter Attia podcast he made an offhanded comment that any
deviation from SAD (Standard American Diet) seems to improve health. So
probably related to that.

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synsynack
Not eating food, aka fasting, improves mental wellbeing.

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jkahrs595
Lots of people in here making excuses as to why they don't eat more fruits and
vegetables.

Here's a write-up with sources: [https://nutritionfacts.org/2018/09/04/how-
many-servings-of-f...](https://nutritionfacts.org/2018/09/04/how-many-
servings-of-fruits-and-vegetables-to-improve-mood/)

~~~
baby
they are too difficult to peel.

~~~
vokep
thats one of the most awesome aspects of them, they are self-packaged. Most of
the benefits of plastic, with none of the downsides. The only additional
downside it might have that plastic doesn't is it decays and smells bad if
youdon't throw it away (but thats ok because its ok to throw it away!)

~~~
hokus
wait, does that mean we should package other things in fruit and vegitable
skins? I guess a hamburger in a coconut shell would work just fine. Squeezing
ketchup out of a lemon will probably take a bit more getting used to but ice
cream wrapped in a melon skin sounds just fine.

Fruit shall be more popular than ever after we replace the content with meat.

~~~
vokep
Well, thats the future magic world of building things with proteins.

So, no you wouldn't put ketchup in a lemon, but you might have what appears to
be a typical ketchup packet,appears to be made of plastic, but is actually
some mix of properties of different organic skins.

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bigbluedots
Can I take supplements which give the same effect?

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starpucks
Common sense

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boxcarr
I'm a bit alarmed. We have fruit, but not veg. Hopefully, vegetables are a
good substitute for veg.

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dawhizkid
Not if you believe Jordan and Mikaela
Peterson...[https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/08/the-
peter...](https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/08/the-peterson-
family-meat-cleanse/567613/)

~~~
sridca
It is pathetic that HN childishly downvotes you instead of engaging in a
fruitful discussion.

For an unbiased review of foods, go here:
[http://www.diagnosisdiet.com/foods/](http://www.diagnosisdiet.com/foods/)

~~~
astura
Jordon Peterson claims drinking a glass of apple cider caused him to not be
able to sleep for 25 days straight and his daughter claimed that putting
pepper on a steak caused joint pain, acne and anxiety for three weeks. But she
can drink voldka and bourbon.

That sort of batshit crazy magical thinking isn't worth discussing. Period.

The article the GP posted has the money quote:

>The idea that alcohol, one of the most well-documented toxic substances, is
among the few things that Peterson’s body will tolerate may be illuminating.
It implies that when it comes to dieting, the inherent properties of the
substances ingested can be less important than the eater’s conceptualizations
of them—as either tolerable or intolerable, good or bad. What’s actually
therapeutic may be the act of elimination itself.

~~~
geowwy
It's not too crazy to think a mono-diet of meat might have some therapeutic
effects. A lot of people claim it's helped them:
[https://meatheals.com/](https://meatheals.com/)

~~~
nradov
Those people are also mentally ill. Their symptoms are mostly psychosomatic
and the "therapeutic effects" of a meat diet are entirely sure to the placebo
effect.

~~~
sridca
Are malicious comments like this -- calling one's fellow human beings
reporting what worked to cure their health "mentally ill" or "batshit crazy"
\-- actually allowed on HN?

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integrate-this
Eating more fruit and vegetables. Spell the whole damn word. It takes less
than a second to finish typing that. I saw 'thru' in an academic journal
yesterday as well. Drives me insane.

~~~
theonemind
"Veg" seems used more in British English. As an American, it never really
sounds right to me, and I usually see/hear it from UK or Australian sources.
Just an idiomatic difference, I think.

------
fizixer
I don't get fruits. As much as I love them, I don't see why you need somewhat
reduced nutrition (compared to vegetables) and way more sugar.

Antioxidants have been a failure of nutritional science, in the same vein as
the high-grain diet. That means vitamin C has been way overrated. In fact, it
has better uses in skin care but that's a different story.

Can anyone comment?

As long as you get enough fiber, eat plenty of vegetables (and dry fruit like
almonds, nuts, etc), and in general follow a low-carb diet, fruit intake is
nothing more than a psychological boost, and makes you nutritionally worse
off. Change my view.

~~~
cageface
There is so much misinformation out there about diet it's truly mindboggling.
Antioxidants play a crucial role in maintaining health. They just don't work
that well if you take them in purified form as a supplement. Consuming a diet
high in natural antioxidants has tons of very well documented benefits. And
fruits are one of the best sources of antioxidants, along with a lot of other
valuable nutrient.

[https://nutritionfacts.org/2016/02/02/the-number-one-
global-...](https://nutritionfacts.org/2016/02/02/the-number-one-global-diet-
risk/)

------
porpoisely
No. Eating a balanced meal improves mental well being. A balance of meat, veg,
fruit, etc.

These "studies" are so intentionally deceiving since they take lower income
people who gorge themselves on processed junk and them claim "eating more
fruit and veg" helps. You could also say "eating more meat" would be
beneficial as opposed to processed junk.

I'm disappointed that so much of diet "science" is so corrupted by politics
and business agenda. But that's been it's history since kellog's "eat cereal"
nonsense and "an apple a day" PR stunt.

There is nothing inherently good about fruits or vegs. An "apple a day" isn't
going to keep the doctor away. And vegetables aren't inherently "healthy
food". If you only eat apples and vegetables, you will deteriorate physically
and mentally and maybe even die.

~~~
shafyy
You don't need to eat meat to be healthy (mentally or physically).

~~~
porpoisely
Yes you do. I supposed it is possible to be "healthy" on an all meat or all
veg diet, but that's not optimal. Especially for veg diet since they need tons
of supplements and/or have to track down all kinds of exotic veg, nuts, etc to
stay sane and healthy.

It's like walking on all fours. Sure I can get from point A to point B on all
fours, but it's not optimal. We were built to walk on our legs. The same goes
for food. We were built to be omnivores.

The fact that no human society ( or pre human society ) existed on an all meat
or all veg diet should be a dead giveaway.

Frankly, as a one time vegan myself, veganism should be labeled an eating
disorder. Human beings should be eating a balanced diet.

~~~
Zarath
Dunno why this is controversial. If you need to be taking supplements to get
proper nutrition, then you're not eating correctly. Simple as that.

EDIT: I guess this only applies to Veganism.

~~~
PerfectElement
The only required supplement for vegans is B12, and that's not because of lack
of meat. B12 is produced by bacteria and most of us live in sanitized
environments, so there is no reliable sources of B12 any longer. It's possible
that even the animals you eat are low in B12 due to cobalt deficiency in the
soil[1], so I encourage you to check your levels and supplement if necessary.

Also, your argument is a classic example of an appeal to nature[2].

1: [https://www.agric.wa.gov.au/livestock-biosecurity/cobalt-
def...](https://www.agric.wa.gov.au/livestock-biosecurity/cobalt-deficiency-
sheep-and-cattle)

2:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature)

~~~
shafyy
Exactly. And a lot of foods you buy at grocery stores already include extra
B-12 (e.g. soy/flax/oat milks, tofu, etc.)

