
How to Get Your Apartment Off the Grid - hellrich
http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2016/05/how-to-go-off-grid-in-your-apartment.html
======
franciscop
A bit of context: In Spain, one of the European countries with better sunlight
for solar production, some laws were passed recently that make it basically
impossible for individuals to resell excess energy to the grid, so
selling/buying from the grid on demand instead of using batteries is not
really an option.

That's why when we see countries like Germany (not so much sun) going strong
for solar Spanish people complain and try to change a corrupt government that
passes laws that strongly favors utility companies. Not to say that some of
this government relatives _work_ in these utilities.

~~~
frgewut
Wouldn't it be possible to create micro grids? E.g. tenants of one house or
small town. They could sell electricity to each other then.

~~~
franciscop
> _Y se añade "en ningún caso un generador se podrá conectar a la red interior
> de varios consumidores". Esta medida habría beneficiado a las comunidades de
> vecinos._

And it adds "under no circumstance a generator will be connected to the inner
network of several consumers." This rule would have helped neighborhood
communities.

~~~
wolfhumble
Seems like you are quoting an article from El Páis and not directly the law
itself.

[http://economia.elpais.com/economia/2015/10/09/actualidad/14...](http://economia.elpais.com/economia/2015/10/09/actualidad/1444388935_118022.html)

~~~
narag
[https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2015/10/10/pdfs/BOE-A-2015-10927...](https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2015/10/10/pdfs/BOE-A-2015-10927.pdf)

5.2.B - En el caso de que existan varias instalaciones de producción, el
titular de todas y cada una de ellas deberá ser la misma persona física o
jurídica.

(In case there are several production facilities, the owner of all of them
must be the same natural or legal person)

~~~
wolfhumble
"Y se añade "en ningún caso un generador se podrá conectar a la red interior
de varios consumidores". Esta medida habría beneficiado a las comunidades de
vecinos."

Baterías y trabas burocráticas (right column):

[http://economia.elpais.com/economia/2015/10/09/actualidad/14...](http://economia.elpais.com/economia/2015/10/09/actualidad/1444388935_118022.html)

~~~
narag
I'm not arguing it's not quoted from the article, just providing a source to
the original in case someone is interested.

~~~
wolfhumble
I thought that was the purpose, but I think it is always important to quote
the source of one's comment. :-)

The quoted part within the article, seems actually to be from, Artículo 4.3
(yes, very pedantic :-)

Thanks for the link!

------
abraae
Its incredibly satisfying going off-grid. We have an off-grid cabin and its
awesome turning up and finding the batteries fully charged and ready to
dispense free electricity.

During the summer, rain water, solar power, cooking over a wood fire and
walking or cycling to the beach means you can actually live at entirely carbon
zero. One of the kids was fascinated by the idea that his iphone had been
powered up using on energy from the sun.

Kudos to OP for doing all this in a city apartment!

~~~
dmoy
Is burning wood carbon zero? My in-law/relatives in Alaska say it can pollute
quite a bit. Though I don't know how that relates to any carbon zero metric.

~~~
kileywm
Burning wood is not carbon zero. It is the reverse of carbon sequestration in
the sense that atmospheric CO2 was once converted to wood by the tree, and now
the wood is being burned and the captured carbon release back into the
atmosphere.

That could be nearly carbon zero (I don't know the contributions from soil and
what mass remains as ashes, etc..), except when you consider the opportunity
cost.

That burned tree, presumably healthy just prior, loses the ability to
sequester any more carbon. A burned tree puts carbon in the atmosphere AND
removes a carbon sequesterer simultaneously. That act is removing X amount of
future sequestration until the tree would have naturally died and turned to
soil. At that point most of that carbon would still be in solid form and not
in the atmosphere.

I'm nitpicking at this point, but I lean toward burning wood as not carbon
zero for the sake of opportunity cost.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Doesn't that exactly describe a carbon-neutral lifecycle?

~~~
kileywm
Good point, I really didn't complete my thought. Updating my comment to
explain.

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mschuster91
Nice project, but I disagree on one point:

> For lighting, it's impossible to fall back on grid power because I had to
> cut the power cords of all lamps to make them compatible with the 12V DC
> grid

Why not get a cheap-ass car battery charger? He's using lead-acid batteries
anyway, and a charger for these is approx. 50 €.

Or bypass the battery entirely and use a 12V 200W power supply instead of the
battery voltage (to avoid overloading your PSU with powering the equipment AND
simultaneously charging the battery).

------
gexla
>Some important challenges remain, most notably the washing machine, the
bathroom and the laser printer. The problem with washing machine and bathroom
is that they're on the north side of the building, far from the solar panels.
We could go to a laundromat but there are none in town. A pedal powered
washing machine requires space that we don't have.

You could try washing your laundry by hand. It isn't as much work as it might
seem if you have never tried it. There must be something magical in the
detergent because I can get clothes cleaner than I ever had with a washer back
home with little work.

For example, to wash a shirt I just put the water / detergent mix in a basin
and agitate the shirt with my hands for a couple minutes. Leave the shirt in
the basin for 15 minutes for the detergent to do it's work. Agitate for
another few minutes and then hang. First hang in the bathroom or outside for
20 for the shirt to quit dripping and then I put in front of a fan. The shirt
is dry within a couple of hours.

Pants can be a bit more work depending on the material. Denim is heavy and
eats up the dirt. I do the same as with the shirt but I use a tide bar to spot
soap areas which get more dirt (bottoms of the pant legs) and brush those
areas.

This does take longer than using a washing machine. But the clothes last
longer and get cleaner. You aren't using electricity, buying an appliance and
birthing a hung of metal and plastic that you may one day have to dispose of.

One weird effect that doing laundry by hand has for me is that it sort of puts
me closer to my stuff. It's too easy to get something dirty, throw it in the
washer and forget about it. Hand washing makes me more aware of how what I own
also owns me and the energy it takes to maintain and carry this stuff around
with me.

~~~
pjc50
Sadly, giving up on the washing machine is giving up one on of the great
labour saving inventions, and going back towards the time when washing took at
least one woman-day per week.

[http://johnquiggin.com/2012/05/03/housework-in-
utopia/](http://johnquiggin.com/2012/05/03/housework-in-utopia/)

[http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_and_the_magic_washing_...](http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_and_the_magic_washing_machine)

~~~
gexla
Back in the day when men were out working and families were larger, women had
to do a lot of work do to laundry because they would do laundry for the entire
family. Doing your own laundry doesn't take long. Still more work than using a
washing machine, but not too bad.

------
tardo99
Could people with houses use legacy PSTN wiring to distribute 12V throughout
the house?

~~~
snowwindwaves
POTS wires are 24 gauge [0] which can handle 3.5 amps [1] so you'd be able to
transmit 12V * 3.5A = 42 Watts.

POTS often had 36V on it to power the ringer on phones so you could
potentially up the power transmission by running your system at 14V. Some
devices which consume a fixed amount of power would use less current, other
devices would just use more power at higher voltage.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plain_old_telephone_service](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plain_old_telephone_service)
[1]
[http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm](http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm)

~~~
tardo99
42 watts seems ok for a very small installation, right? I'm thinking enough to
charge a phone and maybe a laptop. And, that would be driveable with a small
12V battery and a small solar panel.

~~~
snowwindwaves
As others have pointed out voltage drop is a significant problem with low
voltage systems. #24 is 84 ohms per km, or 0.084 ohms per metre. Say the
system is running at 13.4 V and the loads will work on as little as 11.5V
before they brown out, that means we can have 13.4-11.5V voltage drop = 1.9V
voltage drop. ohms law V=IR so for 3.5A and 1.9V R=0.54 ohms total resistance,
and at .084 ohms per metre we can transmit 3.5A 6.46 metres before the voltage
drop will be unacceptable.

You could charge a phone, but even my small laptop chargers are over 60W. The
big ones are 90W.

Also don't try this in your house! pushing 3.5A through that little pinner
wire it could get hot and start a fire.

~~~
Scoundreller
Wouldn't there be 4 conductors, so resistance would be half when you pair them
together?

~~~
snowwindwaves
Yes.

But i forgot about the resistance from the load back to the source so above
where I said 6m should actually be 3m. Or if two wires are parallel both from
source to load and load back to source then we're back to 6m.

------
taneem
Why is it a good idea to get off the grid? Genuinely curious. I would think
that a networked connection of energy input/output nodes that is globally
optimized would be a good thing. Not sure why it's better for anyone to have
every node (home) operate independently.

~~~
yardie
1 reason is you don't have to deal with the red tape of the ILEC. I've read a
few stories of people installing solar onto their house. Then, when it's time
to tie into the grid the electric company won't certify the install or drags
their feet for months.

Even if you do get it tied in any new changes require recertification. I can
understand the position of the ILEC. The homeowner just wants to get up and
running quickly. The electric company wants to ensure the stability of the
grid.

~~~
sokoloff
In places with net metering, the electric company often seems more interested
in the profitability of the grid, which tends to delay approvals.

------
ZanyProgrammer
Nice, but a lot of apartment managers would freak out over those kinds of
installations being visible, at least for any halfway decent apartments.

~~~
whamlastxmas
Agreed, I've lived at probably 8 different complexes in my life and none of
them would have allowed this. I've had managers bitch at me for taking down
vertical blinds and only having curtains.

------
kozak
Sad that we don't have a 12V power socket standard that is better than the
lighter socket.

~~~
ytjohn
In the US at least, and other countries have adopted it, the Anderson power
pole is becoming the standard. Anderson power poles are genderless and keyed.
In other words, you can connect any similar amp connector to any other, and
you can't plug them in wrong (almost). You can put power pole pigtails on all
your 12V sources, and power pole pigtails on all your 12V devices, then make
any (reasonable) length of extension cable with power poles at either end.

The most common amperages (15, 30, 45) use the same plastic housing, so you
can connect a 15A device into a 45A rated power source. The higher amp rated
power poles are are 75A, 120A, 175A, and 350A. These are more commonly seen on
trucks and commony used to attach things like a winch. I have a set of 175A
power poles attached to my Prius to run an inverter, and I have a long set of
heavy duty jumper cables that I split near one end put a 175A powerpole set
inline (so I can connect my inverter (or my prius) to almost any external
source.

[https://powerwerx.com/anderson-powerpole-connectors-15amp-
bo...](https://powerwerx.com/anderson-powerpole-connectors-15amp-bonded)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anderson_Powerpole#De_facto_st...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anderson_Powerpole#De_facto_standards)

It takes a bit of money to get into using them (you need a set of crimpers,
and the insertion/extraction tool is a lifesaver here as well). Unless you buy
in a lot of bulk, you can expect $1/end you make. If you're in an a club
(amateur radio/model trains/rc), someone might be able to lend you a crimp
tool or make up some adapters for you. But once you start replacing ends and
seeing the usefulness of it, you'll probably want to put ends on everything
12V. I've got pretty much everything 12V of mine switched over, and a handful
of adapters to go from power to: alligator clips, ring terminal, bare wire,
car DC socket (cigarette lighter), bananna clips, trailer connector.

------
frgewut
Grid actually is good (easier to balance etc). "Utility grid" is what causes
most inconveniences.

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honua
What is this, Hacker News or something? :) (Just nice to see this kind of
thing on here)

------
rfeather
It's great that the author wrote up their approach, but one thing I don't see
is how this was managed with the landlord. There is some clue in that the
landlord installed the solar water heater. My interest comes from my belief
that my landlord (or more likely the condo association that our apartment is
in) would never allow this sort of installation. Aside from "aesthetic
concerns", solar panels can potentially cause insurance rates to go up
(firefighters don't like to douse electricity generators with water).

~~~
dublinben
Solar hot water panels do not generate electricity. They heat up a fluid
(glycol) which is used to heat up your water.

~~~
rfeather
I'm referring to the PV panels the author mentioned putting on his window
sill. Agreed that the hot water system isn't a fire concern.

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dharma1
I recently built a flat roof 35m2 home office/gym at the back of my garden.
I'm currently using an electrical convection heater and a 9kw instant water
heater for shower/basin.

What would be the most cost effective way to use solar instead for
heating/shower? I was thinking about putting a 100-200 litre insulated tank
either inside or outside, and heat that with solar to about 70c, to use for
both heating in the winter, and showers. I don't need cooling in the summer.

Has anyone done this?

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makecheck
It is great to be knowledgeable about energy consumption and conservation
methods and to try to spread that knowledge. Realistically however, any
_action_ is negligible unless it is done by industries that will have a _huge_
effect on the environment (airlines, for instance).

If you want to achieve X, it is ultimately best to spend your time convincing
a certain number of local _businesses_ to do X, or petitioning governments,
etc.

~~~
mattlutze
Lobbying private or public interests is definitely important if you want to
have an impact. The other half of that is that people have to actually do the
things you're lobbying for.

Implementing these ideas personally is more than just collecting knowledge --
it's contributing to the desired effect.

To boot, in a conversation where you'll subsequently advocate for energy
consumption, one of the easiest ways to build trust will be to speak from a
position of experience -- to know what probing questions to ask about your
audience's life experiences that will help them build a future story in which
they're enjoying conserving energy.

------
gravypod
You might also want to check the batteries you are using for your system. Due
to the nature of the small space and high use, I remember from my armature
radio license exam that some batteries vent gas when under operation. If I
remember correctly, one such battery is NiMH.

You should really read into your batteries and your charge controller
specifications before doing anything like this.

Other than that, this looks great!

------
franzpeterfolz
Laser printers need much power for heating. Would it be possible to switch to
a ink printer? They should work fine on 10 to 20 Watts. They even have
external Poweradapters like a Laptop.

It depends on the usagepattern. Not printing enough would dry up the ink.
Printing to much could be to expensive or to slow.

But heating dust up with a laser to melt it down on paper seems to be very
inefficient in terms of energyefficiency.

~~~
Kliment
This is veering offtopic but laser printers don't actually use the laser for
heating the toner, they use it to create charges on an image drum which picks
up the toner electrostatically. The fuser assembly is a very simple resistive
heater.

------
pjc50
Nice use of an in house microgrid. To me the striking thing was how the LED
bulbs designed to be plugged into 220VAC 'just work' when plugged into 12VDC;
I know this is because of their switchmode power supplies, it's still
surprising.

You could consider doing this with "19.5V" (popular with laptops), although
many will work just fine from 12V, or power-over-ethernet's 48V.

------
ilaksh
Why not place two 250 watt solar panels vertically in the windows. They are
big enough.

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imaginenore
All that work to get 150Wh per day? That's what, 20 cents worth of grid
electricity?

