
Tim Cook’s internal email about HKmap - DVassallo
https://pastebin.com/dFyftCuZ
======
trenning
> However, over the past several days we received credible information, from
> the Hong Kong Cybersecurity and Technology Crime Bureau, as well as from
> users in Hong Kong, that the app was being used maliciously to target
> individual officers for violence and to victimize individuals and property
> where no police are present.

So just like Snapchat, Facebook, Twitter, and Reddit. They should probably get
rid of those too

------
rvz
From the most recent tweet that has some confirmation of the 'leaked email'
[0]

> Finally, I offer my sincerest condolences to @waze, which unlike HKmap is an
> app specifically intended for evading law enforcement, and which by Mr.
> Cook's logic must therefore brace itself for imminent removal from the App
> Store.

So this leaked internal email is Mr Cook's and Apple's justification for
removing the HKMap due to it 'violating HK law' and questions the lack of
evidence of which laws that lead to this decision.

Right now the last tweet is outright accusing Waze of 'specifically intended
for evading law enforcement' without supporting evidence too. (I'd like to see
evidence for this) If this evidence is also true then this sounds much like of
a App Store double-standard, that large companies can get away with it unless
they are brought into the light.

If that is true, I will offer to press F to pay my respects to @waze in
advance.

[0] -
[https://twitter.com/pinboard/status/1182353727329488896?s=21](https://twitter.com/pinboard/status/1182353727329488896?s=21)

~~~
nabdab
You are misrepresenting the message either deliberately or through a
misunderstanding of it.

Nowhere is it mentioned that the app was removes because it allowed avoiding
police. It was removed because it violated the clauses on personal harm.

> we received credible information, from the Hong Kong Cybersecurity and
> Technology Crime Bureau, as well as from users in Hong Kong, that the app
> was being used maliciously to target individual officers for violence and to
> victimize individuals and property where no police are present. This use put
> the app in violation of Hong Kong law. Similarly, widespread abuse clearly
> violates our App Store guidelines barring personal harm.

When waze starts advertising that it will show you police-stops so you can
drop by and beat up the police they would find themselves in a similar
category.

~~~
pcwalton
That isn't what HKmap does, at all. I believe the people, like Zeynep Tufekci,
who are reporting on the ground.

------
deogeo
> we believe this decision best protects our users.

I'm sure the protesters are very grateful a CEO on the other side of the world
decides how they may protect themselves.

~~~
nabdab
If the information they have recieved is indeed credible as they state. Then
the users who would be grateful are the police officers who were targeted in
violent assaults and the locations that where vandalized.

Apple is not in a unique position to judge who’s “the good guys” and who’s the
“bad guys” they recognized the app was being used as a tool of violence and
removed it because they did not wish to distribute tools used for violence.

~~~
thinkingemote
The key bit is what is credible. Because it looks like it's the very same
organisation which is against the demonstrators.

~~~
deogeo
> The key bit is what is credible.

I strongly disagree. Our tools should not be making judgements on what is
credible, or what is good, and based on that decide if they will serve or
betray their owner. Power is already far too centralized.

------
kerng
Please Apple remove your Maps app. After all, it enables bad people to
navigate roads to reach their target most efficiently.

------
SiliconAlley
I strongly feel that at this point the intuitive solution would be a broad
boycott/protest of Apple’s products until they elect to allow sideloading of
applications on iOS. They shouldn’t even _want_ to negotiate moral issues like
this and I feel it’s just really ugly for them to be in a position to
arbitrate matters of such gravity when they don’t have to be. Enough people
will continue to use the App Store for convenience that I doubt it would have
any substantial consequence for revenue, and even if it did, this is such an
intuitively ugly thing that I would argue whatever the cost is it is worth it.
Even dependent as I am on Apple products for my work, it may pain me too much
to buy another if this is still going on come the time.

------
DVassallo
This seems to be genuine:
[https://twitter.com/pinboard/status/1182353727329488896?s=21](https://twitter.com/pinboard/status/1182353727329488896?s=21)

------
rasz
> However, over the past several days we received credible information, from
> the Hong Kong Cybersecurity and Technology Crime Bureau, as well as from
> users in Hong Kong, that our manufacturing operation in China might suffer
> issues if we dont bend the knee

------
abstract7
It's far too easy for mainland "security" forces or counterparts to go plain-
clothes and attak HK police. It's a common tactic used against protestors. It
gives an excuse for authoritarian responses, like shooting at crowds or, in
this case, shutting down an app.

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bert2002
Trust the "Hong Kong Cybersecurity and Technology Crime Bureau" lol.

------
technicality
Technically speaking so does the police in Venezuela and Zimbabwe feel
threatened by protesters whom are also technically speaking violating laws of
those countries. But those laws are meant to suppress freedom and to punish
those wanting democracy.

By claiming such laws and such reports as valid reasons to remove apps and to
aid corrupt governments these companies highlight the fact that they will be
more than happy to suppress dissidence in their home countries as well.

The us, the eu, et al, are officially no longer the freedom loving freedom
promoting countries they used to be.

In the us the masses are kept under control with managed healthcare and
mortgages while in the eu they are kept under control with the threat of cheap
labour imports.

Enjoy the new reality.

------
lern_too_spel
> the app was being used maliciously to target individual officers for
> violence

How?

------
NicoJuicy
Perhaps he should just surf to [https://hkmap.live/](https://hkmap.live/) and
inform himself.

A ceo is just as good as his judgement.

Perhaps not a very good judgement on this case, except $$$ related ofc.

Weird too, since a lot of Western values should be more important to him than
other ceo's. What if some values that he takes personal would become more
dominant in our government, because of Chinese influence. I guess he would say
"Oops" then.

~~~
gtirloni
Unless there's a declared civil war in HK, the physical integrity of police
officers is as much important as that of the protesters. I would list that as
a "Western" value.

~~~
NicoJuicy
The source of harming police officers, is not Apple.

It's Chinese censorship and bots/hired humans that give 1 star fake "user
reviews".

Perhaps read this, found it after commenting:
[https://daringfireball.net/linked/2019/10/10/cook-hkmap-
live...](https://daringfireball.net/linked/2019/10/10/cook-hkmap-live-email)

Or does Quartz also harms police officers?

[https://twitter.com/jkeefe/status/1182023843725971457](https://twitter.com/jkeefe/status/1182023843725971457)

You have 2 eyes and a brain, use them :)

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brador
Seems like it would be trivial to make a web based version, this app doesn't
need an app store.

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tibbydudeza
"from the Hong Kong Cybersecurity and Technology Crime Bureau"

LOL ... yep that is a sure an unbiased impartial state agency that one.

It seems that Tim learned a few tricks from his engagement with President
Trump.

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kbos87
You lost me at” Hong Kong Cybersecurity and Technology Crime Bureau“, Tim

