
Intel Launches 4k-enabled Quad Core NUC - alanfranz
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/nuc/nuc-kit-nuc6i7kyk-features-configurations.html
======
jpt4
A few of my friends and I are working on the design of a robust, portable
computing form factor. After previously consdering various of the Gigabyte
Brix Pro series, we settled on the Skull Canyon as the core of the ensemble,
currently composed of:

1) Intel NUC Kit NUC6i7KYK

2) 32 (2 x 16) GiB DDR4 2133MHz RAM (G.SKILL Ripjaws) 3) 512 GB M.2 NVMe SSD
(Samsung 950 Pro)

4) 9.7" 2048x1536 DisplayPort Monitor (Adafruit Qualia kit)

5) 104 key mechanical keyboard w/Cherry MX Blue switches (DAS Professional)

Everything worked the first time it was plugged together, and now the system
can run StarCraft II: LoTV with medium settings under Wine on Arch GNU/Linux.
The next steps are to transform the output from a LiFePo4 motorcycle battery
(via a DC-DC converter) to the correct voltage, furnish a case and smaller
keyboard, and start testing/optimizing the setup in the field.

Edit: The 45W TDP of the NUC6i7KYK was its main advantage when compared to
discretely sourcing comparable or superior components for a mini-ITX build.
Even after doubling the power draw to account for a screen, speakers, and
additional cooling, two kilograms of lithium should provide two hours of
roaming battery life (and weight minimization is low on our priority list).

~~~
kogepathic
> 4) 9.7" 2048x1536 DisplayPort Monitor (Adafruit Qualia kit)

That monitor is horribly overpriced for what you get.

The LCD can be purchased in QTY 1 from AliExpress for $25 USD with free
shipping to almost anywhere in the world. [1]

A guy in Japan makes a DP board which is better than the Adafruit one and
which you can buy for about $40 USD shipped from Japan (3,500 JPY + 800 JPY
shipping). [2]

I've bought 5 so far and they all work great. One was DOA but the seller
kindly shipped me a replacement free of charge. It's also 5V powered, so you
can power it directly from the computer using a USB cable, no need for an
extra 9V (seriously, 9V. why?) power supply.

You can easily laser cut a stand from plywood or lexan to mount the LCD. Or,
you can buy the actual iPad aluminium housing ($22 + $8 for the digitizer
glass) and mount the adapter on the back.

It really bothers me that Adafruit is selling that kit for $225 when you can
build one yourself for well under $100. Their profit margins must be insane.

[1]
[http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB...](http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20160615051558&SearchText=LP097qx1)

(If the link is broken, just search AliExpress for the LP097QX1)

[2]
[http://abusemark.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&...](http://abusemark.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=47&zenid=lcgtihp4gkkl5a14ub8tic3c45)

~~~
dv_dt
I don't doubt for many products you can assemble it yourself more cheaply with
the input of time. But, a price factor of 2.25 over raw parts (COGS, cost of
goods sold) is pretty reasonable overhead. It's not the best margin, but it's
right within reasonable for paying for assembly, inventory housing, warranty
coverage, etc.

For reference: [https://www.eevblog.com/2016/06/03/eevblog-887-the-
economics...](https://www.eevblog.com/2016/06/03/eevblog-887-the-economics-of-
selling-hardware/)

~~~
kogepathic
> But, a price factor of 2.25 over raw parts (COGS, cost of goods sold) is
> pretty reasonable overhead.

If this were a normal commercial product, I would agree with you.

But the fact is, when you buy this Adafruit kit, you're getting the raw parts
which you have to assemble, the monitor has fewer features than a normal
desktop LCD monitor (only one resolution supported, only DisplayPort input)
and given that it's the bare LCD, is much more fragile than a commercial
monitor.

So, yes, normally it is absolutely reasonable and expected for a manufacturer
to charge 2-2.5x the price of raw goods. But in this case you're literally
paying Adafruit 200% to do simple supply chain logistics for you, and you're
getting a pile of parts which you can buy (with free shipping!) from
FleaBay/AliExpress with a few clicks of your mouse.

~~~
dv_dt
For this kit, you're assembling the plastic enclosure, but the electronics are
pre-assembled (and I assume pre-tested), so it's not exactly a bag of parts.
I'd agree that it is not a full retail product. I'd say it is a somewhat
boutique, low-volume product - for that I've seen much much higher then 3x
COGS.

Maybe I'm just at a low hassle tolerance from having to juggle too many past
return transactions on AlieBay components and am overvaluing getting the
logistics done for getting working electronics without going through the time
of finding the right LCD, integrating the parts, getting it to drive
correctly, etc.

Overall, I guess I'm someone whose also willing to let a bit of extra margin
go to Adafruit which keeps doing interesting things. In the end, there's
plenty of room for everyone to make their own price/value judgement, I
certainly don't think my view should override others in this area.

------
andybak
For anyone else baffled by another TLA:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Unit_of_Computing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Unit_of_Computing)

~~~
lsaferite
And for someone baffled by TLA?

~~~
akaij
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-
letter_acronym](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-letter_acronym)

~~~
lsaferite
Thanks! Funny that I knew NUC but not TLA.

I'd love to see forums that automatically cited acronyms like this.

~~~
moosingin3space
Sounds like there's a market for a browser extension for this.

~~~
Someone1234
Indeed. But I'd worry about both false positives and far too many meanings for
the same letters based on context.

~~~
moosingin3space
Yeah, that might be the case. I think it would have to require user
activation. Maybe select acronym, right-click, click "Define" and it displays
a list of possibilities.

I might try and make one just to keep my JavaScript sharp -- been away from it
for a while.

------
bhouston
Pretty decent GPU performance, 80% performance of the non-overclocked 4790K,
which is my go to desktop processor these days. And it has 40% of the
performance of the top end processors available.

The GPU is rated 1,921 on the PassMark website, which is about 6x slower than
the top GPUs. It is 3x slower than what were mid-range GPUs 4 years ago. It is
okay-ish, but it is pretty slow compared to what is available.

Thus it is a good desktop machine for non-3D workflows. Like using Word or Web
Browsing at 4K. I can not imagine anyone having problems with that. It will
likely be quite snappy.

I think anyone interested in 3D games will be dissatisfied with the GPU
performance, and that will be very pronounced at high screen (4K) resolutions.

I could see picking these up for our non-developer non-content creator
employees. But not for our developers or 3D artists.

~~~
bicubic
Web browsing at 4K is a surprisingly expensive task in itself. I own a Surface
Book and one of my biggest gripes (aside from the broken firmware) is that the
integrated GPU is too weak to drive browser rendering fast enough to keep up
with the touch screen on the vast majority of websites* . This gets a lot
worse when hooked up to an actual external 4k display - the scrolling latency
is pretty unpleasant.

* It seems that they optimized Edge to have really good scrolling performance, but ff/chrome/opera all have serious scrolling issues.

~~~
jschwartzi
I have the same problem globally in Linux. On dual 4k monitors, scrolling
isn't an animation so much as it's a slow progression of frames in a
slideshow.

~~~
majewsky
I notice the same with a maximized Firefox on 4K, but it became much snappier
after I deactivated smooth scrolling in about:config. For fullscreen videos in
Firefox, it helps to suspend compositing (Alt+Shift+F12 in KWin).

------
Fiaxhs
Really nice, except the design. I mean it looks like the front ports where
aligned via CSS vertical-align. And the skull probably looks cool if you're
14.

~~~
hhandoko
FYI, plain lid (sans-Skull) is included in the package.

------
walrus01
We had a previous discussion about this, and for its price ($675 with no RAM
or SSD?) you can build a really nice mini-ITX system that uses a full size
PCI-Express 3.0 video card. The mini-itx system will run circles around this
with its laptop CPU. With the right mini-itx case it will still fit nicely
into a home theatre setup or in relatively small spaces.

~~~
lloydsparkes
I got one of these the day it came out.

Yes its potentially more expensive than an Mini-ITX system. But it depends on
your priorities.

For me form factor, and power usage, were most important.

This is my new setup: [http://lloydsparkes.co.uk/wp-
content/uploads/2016/06/CCaptur...](http://lloydsparkes.co.uk/wp-
content/uploads/2016/06/CCapture-6.jpg)

And for a development work station, with light gaming (I have an Xbox One for
gaming) the performance is amazing!

~~~
GordonS
Given the size of those 2 monitors it doesn't really look like a smallee form
factor would have been an issue?

~~~
criddell
I'm thinking about doing a similar setup and I like the smaller form factor
because I can attach it to the back of a monitor and not even have to look at
it.

~~~
sliverstorm
Take a look at the Antec ISK-110. Not as small as the NUCs, but lets you build
your own machine on the cheap, and still designed to be attached to the back
of a monitor.

(Won't fit a standalone GPU, but I don't think anything that can be attached
to a monitor can)

------
ourmandave
Strangely, none of the pictures gives you a point of reference to it's actual
size (which is 8.3" x 4.5" x 1.1").

Usually they show it being held up or next to a common reference, like a
quarter, or coffee cup, or the front page of today's newspaper.

~~~
lloydsparkes
Its about the size of a VHS tape

~~~
coredog64
A what?

~~~
jonathankoren
A thing that only fools that don't appreciate quality purchase.

It's a little bit bigger than a betamax.

~~~
thrill
It's a little bigger than a deck of 50 punch cards.

------
twoooeazz
4k (3840 × 2160 @ 60Hz) is already possible since the NUC Rock Canyon
models[0] and Maple Canyon models[1], all based on 5th gen core processors
code named Broadwell, available since Q1/2015.

The latest are the Swift Canyon models[2] based on the 6th gen core processors
code named Skylake, available since Q4/2015, joined now by Skull Canyon[3].

[0]
[http://ark.intel.com/products/codename/77659](http://ark.intel.com/products/codename/77659)

[1]
[http://ark.intel.com/products/codename/75423](http://ark.intel.com/products/codename/75423)

[2]
[http://ark.intel.com/products/codename/85413](http://ark.intel.com/products/codename/85413)

[3]
[http://ark.intel.com/products/codename/74691](http://ark.intel.com/products/codename/74691)

~~~
alanfranzoni
It seems that all those top out at dual core, btw. Any quad core?

------
hoodoof
Mentioned by Jeff Atwood [https://blog.codinghorror.com/the-golden-age-
of-x86-gaming/](https://blog.codinghorror.com/the-golden-age-of-x86-gaming/)

------
dikei
The gaming performance is too low to justify the price. Intel Graphics is
still nowhere near the performance of discrete GPU from Nvidia or AMD.

~~~
creshal
Didn't Intel plan to release Thunderbolt eGPU addons for it?

The price is still silly, but at least you could get decent performance on it
if you wanted.

~~~
dikei
The Razer core is $499 for the enclosure only, which make the price even
harder to swallow.

------
Esau
A review, in case in interests anyone:

[http://nucblog.net/2016/05/skull-canyon-nuc-
review/](http://nucblog.net/2016/05/skull-canyon-nuc-review/)

------
m_eiman
I like that they're putting a Thunderbolt 3 port on it, perhaps this
generation of Thunderbolt can escape the high end and be more generally
useful?

~~~
valarauca1
Thunderbolt 3 is going to rule the world (or will shortly).

Thunderbolt 3 is USB3.2 (Or the new USB-C that is being hyped). At the same
time it is also Mini-Display Port, and Mini-PCIe.

This connector is posed to eat the world.

~~~
drcross
I've been waiting for a long time for decent TB3 peripherals, manufacturers
are very slow. I simply want a thunderbolt to dual hdmi with a few USBs so
that I can put my tower on the opposite side of my room.

------
jmkni
Intel's website is confusing.

This looks cool, I want to buy one, but there's nothing to suggest how much it
costs or where to get one.

~~~
Someone1234
$649.99 (+tax/postage). You can buy it on NewEgg, B&H Photo, and Adorama
search for NUC6i7KYK. Amazon has a listing but it is for a third party seller
who is charging $669 (+$19).

Best of luck :)

~~~
jmkni
Good to know, thanks!

------
Arnt
So it has three video outputs, but can it drive all three?

The big advantage of a stationary computer over a laptop these days is that it
can drive displays, in the plural, so that your use-case is the only factor
deciding how many screens to have.

~~~
lloydsparkes
Intel say it can drive 3x 4k Screens at the same time (2 over DP @ 60Hz, 1
over HDMI 2 ~ 30Hz if I recall correctly)

~~~
Arnt
What? It doesn't have 2×DP according to the specs at the top of the page.

~~~
jamestnz
With DP you may daisy-chain additional displays off the first.

[http://www.displayport.org/cables/driving-multiple-
displays-...](http://www.displayport.org/cables/driving-multiple-displays-
from-a-single-displayport-output/)

------
trengrj
Did Intel just release a PC with a skull on it?

~~~
petepete
Don't worry, it comes with an "Additional lid without skull on it".

~~~
quantumhobbit
Can I get an additional lid with flames so that it will go faster?

~~~
mcbain
Yes, if you have a 3D printer:
[http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/boards-and-
ki...](http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/boards-and-kits/intel-
nuc-kits/000005873.html)

------
vegabook
I use a bunch of NUCs for prototyping cluster development for Cassandra,
Celery, and Storm. I believe the economics are much better than doing the same
with cloud, because I don't feel that nagging "tick tock" of metered usage. I
bought 6 gigabyte BRIX PROs, stuffed them each with 16GB RAM and 1TB SSD, each
has 4790 CPUs, and I feel very good about prototyping in my own time on this
little cluster, for deployment later. Perfect "training" system.

------
cm2187
It's not new news, they were released a month ago. I have one, it's pretty
fast but it's also much nosier than less powerful mini PCs.

------
gcb0
AMD has for several years, the almost free compared to intel prices, 4cored
5350 apu. it serves 4k out of display port ot hdmi. and is very low watt (my
htpc runs passively cooled. though not pumping 4k, wich is useless still)

sadly it's mostly ignored by everyone because there's only two relevant
motherboards for it.

~~~
ChuckMcM
Like you, I'm surprised that AMD doesn't have the NUC equivalent. Back when
Via invented the "ITX" standard and Intel dismissed it, AMD sold quite a few
CPUs in that form factor. Now while "NUC" is an Intel take on small, it could
easily be done by AMD (and as you point out possibly better than Intel can).
Further if AMD was the system supplier (like Intel is for the NUC) they could
get better margins on the chips they sold in those systems.

Its too bad really.

------
ChuckMcM
I'm tempted to replace my NUC5i7RYH with this one. Although Linux support has
been spotty and the xfsettingsd bug was _quite_ painful.

That said, something like this with a terabyte of cross-point (aka "Optane")
flash in it will no doubt eventually be my working desktop.

------
jimaek
Still waiting for HTPCs that support HDMI 2.0a aka HDR support. Unfortunately
this one doesn't.

------
bitL
ZBOX NEN seems to be better for gaming due to 970M, albeit a bit pricier. 4x
faster GPU, even some 4k games are playable. And very quiet.

------
MulliMulli
AMD releases a few low budget cards later this month (RX460 ~$100) so you can
build a halfway decent gaming rack for $400-500.

------
themihai
No a/d wifi... :|

------
samwestdev
Way way too pricy

------
ClassyPuff
Pretty decent GPU performance, 80% performance of the non-overclocked 4790K,
which is my go to desktop processor these days

I would get one of these the day it come out.

------
williesleg
Yeah pretty slick, but the fans kick in when you're doing heavy workloads, I
guess that's better than melting.

------
themihai
no a/d wifi... :|

------
SmellyGeekBoy
> wicked ... totally cool

...With words like this and the skull design, at least their marketing
department are "down with the kids" \- rad!

