

The social behavior incentive: how your app can be as addictive as Facebook - mocy
http://scobleizer.com/2010/01/23/the-social-behavior-incentive-how-your-app-can-be-as-addictive-as-facebook-twitter-foursquare/

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Psyonic
Is anyone else completely turned off by most incentive devices? I don't want
your damn point for leaving a comment on my friend's wall. I don't want to be
"mayor" of a damn coffee shop. Ever watched a bunch of 5 year old's play
before?

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DenisM
It's not about you, it's about users. This stuff either works on the body of
users you care about or it doesn't. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant.

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Psyonic
This is true, but I think it's a bit more complex than that. I can hardly
imagine anyone proudly telling me in person, "I'm the 'mayor' of Joe's cafe!,"
yet they seem to revel in it online. There's something more interesting than
just my feelings here.

Also: Suppose I don't feel that playing into everyone's inner narcissist for
my profit is something I'd be proud of. Does that matter at all?

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DenisM
Clearly you must work within the boundaries of what you find ethically
acceptable - either by staying away from certain things or by expanding the
boundaries. Just remember that other people have boundaries drawn in different
places and arguing about the one right way to draw them is not very productive
for pretty much any definition of productive we should care about on this
site.

You're right in that there is more going on here - the fact that you can't
imagine what is clearly going in in front of you suggests that you project
your system of values on other people to such an extent that it deprives you
of empathy to those people. If you don't get this under control this will
seriously hamper your (future) business in pretty much any area other than
serving people who are exactly like you. This blindness is not likely to be
confined to narcissism. People revel in all kinds of crazy stuff, but you seem
to think that one kind of crazy stuff is more worthy than the other.

~~~
Psyonic
It's not that I consider it unethical: it's not wrong, but it does seem like
taking the easy way out, rather than making your product strong enough to
stand solidly on its own. Then again, you can't always predict how things will
play out. For instance, I don't think Apple intended for the iPod and later
the iPhone to target the narcissist within, but as they became popular, they
became status symbols, and it happened anyway (and less artificially).

To the latter half of your response, I'm working on it. Even if my original
comment was a bit snarky, it was a still a prompt for conversation on the
matter. I'm well aware of the popularity of things like this (Farmville,
anyone?), and I'm trying to understand it.

I'd be interested in your response to my suggestion that people are much more
obvious about this online. While people certainly do things for status in the
real world, almost all would take offense if you gave them a gold star for
getting a date. Why are people so willing to cede authority (judgment) to a
website? The game element doesn't seem to explain it all.

~~~
DenisM
What is the opposite of the "easy way out" for you? In other words, what is
your true goal?

You seem to want both a financially successful product, and one that is
"strong to stand on its own". My spidey senses are telling me there is a lot
of baggage in that latter quote - it looks like you want your contributions to
the world to be not just financially successful but also noble in a way, or
real-manly (the opposite of "the easy way out"). These two are very different
goals - one is of financial independence and the other one is of advancing up
the Maslow's hierarchy to "Esteem" level.

There are several ways to go about it:

1) Give up on the money part and set about satisfying the Esteem need by
getting a very esteemed job (which may not pay very well) - policeman, polar
explorer that kind of thing.

2) Get the Maslow's urge under control via artificial means, and remain
absolutely cold-blooded in business. When you make enough money the urge will
let go of you, and even if not you will have means and training to attack a
harder, worthier problem. The first business is not the end of life.

3) Keep building the business but surrender to the urge and let it control
you. It will give you a lot of staying power, but it will also periodically
send you on the wild goose chase (like writing your own high-scale online
storage because real men only eat what they kill). It's a very round-about way
about getting there.

~~~
Psyonic
Very insightful breakdown. I guess I still feel it must be possible to
reconcile the two goals, but I have a feeling you may be right that I should
try and put one off for now. Food for thought, certainly. I really appreciate
you discussing this with me

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DenisM
I was explaining it to myself as much as to you and I am thankful for the
opportunity. That's really the only case when I am compelled to speak of such
things - to gain more clarity myself.

I am not entirely over this either - far form it. I do iPhone apps with a
loyal user base but modest revenue, while my friend is making crazy money on
affiliate marketing. I should really just go and join him, yet I can't bring
myself to do it. Unlike you I don't find appealing to users base instincts
beneath me, to the contrary I think that emotional engagement is something
people crave and I must provide to create a great product. The basic problem
however is similar - I have a seemingly more profitable opportunity that I am
not pursuing for reasons that are not entirely rational.

~~~
Psyonic
Funny... your situation is very similar to mine, actually. I also have
friends/acquaintances making big bucks with affiliate marketing, and I've
dabbled in it myself, but I can never seem to muster enough enthusiasm to put
much work into it. I can't help feeling like I'm not really adding value,
though I do think AM can add value, if done right.

Also, I wouldn't be so quick to assume you're not acting rationally. Not
robotic, certainly, but a rational human would consider the way his work makes
him feel, etc. I realize this may seem contradictory, as rational/emotional
are often seen as opposites, but we are human and we have emotions, so
ignoring them entirely must be irrational. In other words, working towards
maximum profit is not necessarily rational.

I'm torn on appealing to base instincts... I believe it can enhance an
experience, but I have a hard time stomaching out-right manipulation.
Naturally there is room in the middle, but I guess it's up to each of us to
draw that line for ourselves.

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johnl
I don't know if I agree with every point in the author's list but it's a good
start at listing attributes that differentiates between one site and the next.

