
Why Women Compete with Each Other - SimplyUseless
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/01/opinion/sunday/why-women-compete-with-each-other.html?action=click&module=TrendingStory&region=TrendingTop&pgtype=collection&_r=0
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DanielleMolloy
When reading this article
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection)
was what came into my mind. Note that the author's generalization to all
womanhood is also an easy way to not take responsibility for one's own past or
ongoing bad behavior.

Not saying that bitchiness in the workplace does not exist, and I did observe
the tendency of male-male or male-female work relationships to be healthier.
But neither nature nor nurture force any person to act in a certain way if he
/ she just knows better. There are many women in science / technology who do
know better and act accordingly (or simply professional).

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natvod
First off, men also compete against other men. Men also compete against women.
Basically, humans compete against each other.

Now about her theory:

>That’s the third theory of female competitiveness that I’d like to propose:
We aren’t competing with other women, ultimately, but with ourselves — with
how we think of ourselves. For many of us, we look at other women and see,
instead, a version of ourselves that is better, prettier, smarter, something
more. We don’t see the other woman at all.

The article already starts off weak because it doesn't define and separate
productive competitiveness from unhealthy competitiveness.

But assuming she's addressing the unhealthy "competitiveness".

Girls don't so much compete against other girls as compare themselves with
other girls. When we perceive themselves as inferior in some way, some express
our displeasure in unhealthy behaviors (gossiping, overcompensating, etc.) and
negative emotions.

Most of it stems from poor self-esteem, poor self-image and a scarcity mindset
(if there exists someone smarter, prettier than me, it threatens my chances of
getting what I want). I don't imagine this to be specific to one gender
though, I'm positive guys go through the same issues.

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tajano
_" Women compete, compare, undermine and undercut one another — at least that
is the prevailing notion of how we interact."_

This is written as if men don't do exactly the same thing --and in my
experience they do. Even among my close group of friends, the competition and
"playful" undermining is non-stop and often exhausting.

 _" [Women] express indirect aggression toward other women, and that
aggression is a combination of “self-promotion,” making themselves look more
attractive, and “derogation of rivals,” being catty about other women."_

So for the exact same reasons as men, though men wouldn't normally be
described as "catty." Catty means being subtly or indirectly cruel, and though
men will act this way, it seems infrequent, perhaps they are more directly
combative, or they do it in a more joking way. In any case, it seems that men
are equally competitive, for largely the same reasons, though they may express
themselves slightly differently.

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oldmanjay
The first example of a put down in the article is a simple fact.

If you consider reality insulting, you are putting yourself at a serious
disadvantage. Doesn't matter why you feel that way.

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arrrg
Is that how you view the world? Is politeness a pointless distraction to you?
I really, _really_ don’t get people like that.

I do think that politeness is fundamentally important in human interaction and
to expect it (and to be insulted by its absence) is completely normal and
natural.

Other people shouldn’t by default get priority access to assault your brain
(i.e. they better be polite until you’ve built rapport) and I quite like that
we as a society shame people into being polite as a way of insuring that.
Being polite and considerate is about avoiding extreme psychological
reactions, about being considerate and emphatic. I think it’s perfectly fine
to criticize people when they aren’t just that (and to not point at the
targets of impoliteness and to tell them to toughen up).

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Swizec
As my math teacher in high school would say "It's not offensive if it's true".

But the _tone_ in which it is said, that _is_ offensive. And that's an
important distinction to make. If you're insulted/offended by fact, then your
life will be tough. But if it takes _intent_ to insult/offend you, then you're
what I personally like to call an emotionally stable individual. Perhaps even
"mature".

For example: I'm short. It's just a fact. I am male and my height is exactly
the world average for an adult woman (162cm). There's no skirting around that
fact, I'm just short. Now, I could get offended every time this comes up in
conversation, or every time someone makes a joke, but what's the point? It
serves no purpose. Oh boo hoo, that guy said I'm short. Big whoop.

But if you say I'm short with _intent_ to insult me. Then we have a problem.
Not a big one though, I'm pretty small.

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k__
lol

Yeah, I have that "problem" that I'm always sounding like I intent to insult
people.

I tell them the truth, I help them where I can. But I'm also often pretty
amused by their problems, because they remind me of myself in the past.

People who don't know me well think I'm pretty smug and only come to me for
help if everything else failed. They know I can help in 99%, but they don't
want to pay the price.

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hugh4
_> There are two main theories of why women are competitive in indirectly
aggressive ways. Evolutionary psychology, which uses natural selection to
explain our modern behaviors, says that women need to protect themselves
(read: their wombs) from physical harm, so indirect aggression keeps us safe
while lowering the stock of other women. Feminist psychology chalks up this
indirect aggression to internalizing the patriarchy._

That doesn't sound even vaguely right. The ev-psych explanation has less to do
with physical protection (from what?) and more to do with competing for the
highest-quality men.

It's a bizarre article, which doesn't even touch on the fact that men _also_
compete with each other, though for the most part in very different ways.
Looking at how and why intra-male competition is different to intra-female
competition would be an interesting subject for an article. Discussing intra-
female competition in isolation isn't much use.

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studentrob
> We aren’t competing with other women, ultimately, but with ourselves — with
> how we think of ourselves

Reminds me of a quote,

"If you are willing to look at another person's behavior toward you as a
reflection of the state of their relationship with themselves rather than a
statement about your value as a person, then you will, over a period of time
cease to react at all."

\- Yogi Bhajan

~~~
hugh4
I always preferred Yogi Berra.

