
Inactivity 'kills more than obesity' - sjcsjc
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-30812439
======
awjr
As somebody touching 20st (127kg) I recently started working on a client site
and had a choice, drive by car or catch a train and cycle the 5 miles to the
client site. Into my second week and finding the cycling is really making a
difference and can get desk to platform in 31 minutes (unlocking of bike etc)
down from 35 minutes at the beginning.

I'll weigh myself at some point but honestly feel I'm physically getting into
a better place and fantastically alert. There is also the challenge of riding
hard on the way home to make sure to catch the train ;)

What is more interesting is that a lot of people in the office are surprised
where I catch the train from (Newport,Wales) and that cycling is possible to
Cwmbran without riding with traffic. The Monmouth canal is disused and the
wildlife down there is amazing as are the views.

I basically go to the gym for an hour a day and I don't have a choice. I have
to go no matter what. The weather is a bit crazy at the moment but there is no
such thing as bad weather, just the wrong clothes ;)

I cannot recommend enough the idea of working out a way to cycle to work.
Build fitness into your lifestyle and just make it a necessary function of
your day. I've lasted at most 3 weeks at a gym. They feel inherently boring to
me. My contract is for 6 months.

For those who want to know I'm on the tall side (6'2") so finding a suitable
fold-up bike (train friendly) that was 'strong' enough to hold my weight was
difficult. I ended up with a Xootr Swift. Beautiful ride and not had a problem
on trains ( [https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-
xaf1/v/t1.0-9/103836...](https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-
xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10383637_10152898081476281_5354169390379767354_n.jpg?oh=b1401a4c0ff651042c7575d90a53bbbc&oe=5526AD00)
)

~~~
jeffasinger
Biking to work is the number one thing I miss now that I work from home. I
highly recommend it to everyone.

I didn't used to bike to work this time of year, because the path I'd use is
covered in snow, but even in upstate New York, riding in March and November is
surprisingly enjoyable with the right gear.

~~~
randlet
Yup. It's totally feasible to bike year round in many places even in the
winter. I rode a bike ~6km to work year round in Ottawa, Canada where
temperatures were routinely lower than -10C (14F) (my coldest day riding was
-31C (-24F)).

I find riding in a couple inches of snow to be quite enjoyable but it can
become overly burdensome when it gets too deep.

The main thing is to just dress appropriately and take your time. There's
quite a few blog articles you can find about tips for bike commuting in the
winter.

------
ars
Normal exercise will not cause weight loss - countless studies have shown
that.

But it will make you healthier, so it's worth it anyway.

~~~
victorhooi
I do not agree with your statement.

What do you even mean by "normal exercise"?

I believe that most "normal" people are capable of doing enough exercise
(combined with good eating choices) that they can lose weight.

For example, say you have a 1-hour lunch break each day. During that lunch
break, you could easily go for a 6km run (30-40 minutes), as well as have time
for a shower, and grab food. If you're prepared to have a faster shower, and
eat a quick snack, heck, you could even make it a 10km run (50 minutes).

And depending on where you live, you might also be able to jog, or cycle to
work - that's probably another 30 to 60 minutes of physical activity,
depending on how far. (I have a 15-minute cycle each way).

And maybe some mornings, you could get up early, and go for a swim, or go
boxing or something.

Either way, I personally know many ordinary people who manage to get a healthy
amount of exercise, and achieve their weight goals.

I also have a friend who quite honestly, eats what seems to be an incredibly
unhealthy mix - think large amounts of junk food and deep-fried fast food.
However, they manage to stay reasonably slim (think BMI 18) by doing insane
amounts of exercise (several hours a day). So it's definitely achievable,
assuming you have that sort of willpower.

What studies are you referring to, that show that "normal" exercise will not
cause weight loss? I'd be very curious to see them.

~~~
Someone1234
I'm going to side with the person above you.

Exercise is important for a healthy lifestyle, but it won't result in weight
loss. The amount of calories burned are trivial.

For example:

\- 30 minute run burns (150 pound individual) burns just 272 calories.

\- 30 minute lap swim (150 pound individual) burns, again, just 272 calories.

A single Milky Way chocolate bar has 240 calories. A Big Mac has 530 calories.
A McDonalds Chicken Classic Sandwich 350 calories. And so on. So you can
exercise for an hour and then regain the weight in under a minute. That's how
few calories exercise burns.

The primary way people lose weight is BMR (basal metabolic rate), this is
calories burned just keeping you alive. You literally lose weight while you
sleep due to BMR.

People often like to claim "'calories in' need to be lower than 'calories
out'" and while that is true to a point, it is an over simplification (i.e.
even with identical calories certain things, like sugar, are kept as fat to a
greater extent than other things, such as fiber, which are "ejected").

So, yes, please exercise. You'll live longer, feel healthier, and it might
even shed one or two pounds if you're already skinny. But if you're obese and
need to shed 10+ pounds then your diet is the primary means by which you'll
accomplish your goals, in fact you can lose all of your weight while in a coma
on a hospital bed, so all you need to do is under-eat for your BMR (but
consult your doctor, and try to eat a balanced diet).

I recommend using something like MyFitnessPal. It is free. Just set it up, it
will track your BMR and what you eat, and as long as you stay in the "green"
(below the BMR) you'll eventually lose some weight.

However please keep in mind "water weight" is a legitimate thing. Your body
does gain and lose +-5 pounds "randomly" so you shouldn't weigh yourself
excessively, you'll just lose motivation. Once a week MAX, every two weeks is
better.

~~~
bacr
Those are fair points regarding energy expenditure for specific exercises.
However, that doesn't take into account the effects of regular exercise on
BMR. That normal exercise can elevate your BMR is certainly plausible, and
many people have conducted studies that have reached this conclusion.

Metabolism is a complicated thing, and there are conflicting answers on the
subject. Results differ under a variety of conditions (human, animal,
forced/voluntary, etc.). The abstract in this review summarizes the state of
the research nicely:
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14692598](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14692598)

~~~
Someone1234
> That normal exercise can elevate your BMR is certainly plausible, and many
> people have conducted studies that have reached this conclusion.

It is true that they have conducted these studies, it is inaccurate to claim
that it any great impact on BMR, and the study you linked (which you can read
in full [0]) supports that conclusion. The 48 hour improvement is
inconsequential, and there are no improvements beyond that.

Wikipedia summarises it nicely:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basal_metabolic_rate#Aerobic_v...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basal_metabolic_rate#Aerobic_vs._anaerobic_exercise)

As I said before, exercise is important for a healthy lifestyle (you'll
literally live longer), but for weight loss it is much much less important
than diet, in particular for people who aren't looking to shed a small amount
of weight.

All you're claiming is that for a 30 minute workout you might lose 300
calories instead of 270 calories due to BMR (and that's being generous looking
at the study). Which doesn't change the overall point that without diet
changes you won't lose significant amount of weight through exercise alone.

[0] PDF:
[http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=%2FPNS%2FPNS...](http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=%2FPNS%2FPNS62_03%2FS0029665103000855a.pdf&code=4794dd65f3d9f1d45d1724b76fbc7feb)

~~~
crpatino
I think you are ignoring the elephant in the room.

Active people have higher BMR because they build up bigger muscles. Not
talking about bodybuilders - though that is the extreme of a continuous, but
anyone who does regular exercise builds up some lean mass.

Off course, if you ever stop your body will pick up the signal and decide to
not sustain the extra muscle anymore. If no change in diet follows
immediately, you will pick up body fat pretty quickly.

------
VeejayRampay
The disconnect between what our bodies are built for and the lives we're
living in 2015 is the source of many modern diseases. Daniel Lieberman [1] has
an excellent book on the matter called The Story of the Human Body: Evolution,
Health and Disease [2]. Reading it was a deep realization for me that I needed
to change my way of life and forced me to eat better (more fruits, vegetables,
slashing everything processed from my diet) and exercise more.

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Lieberman](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Lieberman)
[2] [http://www.amazon.com/The-Story-Human-Body-
Evolution/dp/0307...](http://www.amazon.com/The-Story-Human-Body-
Evolution/dp/030774180X)

------
ethicszen
Full text of the study:
[http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2015/01/14/ajcn.114....](http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2015/01/14/ajcn.114.100065.full.pdf+html)

------
otikik
I think the "In Europe" bit missing from the title is kind of important. It
could happen that in other places (and I am not looking to anyone in
particular here) the numbers are different.

------
exodust
I recall overweight professional cricketers and rugby players. They drank a
lot of beer.

Alcohol, chicken and sugar. Cut those three for effective weight loss.

Activity doesn't need to mean Gladiator training at the gym. It should mean
what you want it to. I started learning and messing around with wood-
working/craft recently. Good amount of non-mouse and keyboard activity, lots
of standing up and moving short distances, clamping things, sawing and
drilling. Won't give me a six-pack but keeps blood flowing.

~~~
m348e912
>>>Alcohol, chicken and sugar

One of these things is not like the others. Are you thinking of KFC or the
lean skinless chicken breasts that bodybuilders almost exclusively use as
their main source of protein (aside from shakes/supplements) when cutting?

PS. I have been effectively able to lean out by dropping added sugar and
alcohol from my diet. It sucks going out when relegated to drinking soda water
instead of beer, but it's a relatively easy diet to maintain.

------
Dorian-Marie
And if you count that staying home + work everyday of your life watching TV is
inactivity, then most people are just slowly dying doing nothing

------
jokoon
I think the problem is that our civilization is built in the idea of comfort
and economic specialization.

I don't think our bodies are prepared to that sort of pattern where you stay
inactive for 5 hours, while your brain is still very active, and stop to run
non stop for 1 hour.

So we either sit thinking about civilized work, or do short but very intense
physical activity to compensate the accumulation of stress. I don't think our
far ancestors' metabolism really saw that. So of course people are going to
get sick. Nobody on earth has genes suited to work in an office. We're still
wired to constantly move, searching for food.

Worst thing, I'm almost sure that this accumulation of stress can slow down
productivity. Maybe forcing people to work in 2 or 3 hour sessions, and ask
them to go walk for 15min, might have some positive effects. I'd love to try
walking on a treadmill writing code. I already tried standing in front of a
computer, but my ankles started swelling after 2 hours.

~~~
stdbrouw
> I don't think our bodies are prepared to that sort of pattern where you stay
> inactive for 5 hours, while your brain is still very active, and stop to run
> non stop for 1 hour.

Isn't that pretty similar to the lifestyle of a hunter? Short periods of very
intense activity separated by long periods of inactivity?

~~~
rndn
Here are the recommendations from the Wikipedia page on Paleolithic lifestyle
[1]:

    
    
        - Adopt a Paleolithic diet as much as possible: plenty of fruit,
          fish, vegetables, nuts, and meat while avoiding most forms of
          food not in existence in paleolithic time. It implies avoiding
          all processed food, and in particular junk food and food with a
          high glycemic load, such as sweets and cultivated crops like
          potatoes and cereal grains (in particular wheat).
        - Exercise frequently, but with a variety of durations and
          intensities (including rest periods) rather than doing always
          the same, extended routines in a gym or while jogging.
        - Perform a variety of complex "natural movements" (e.g. walking,
          running, jumping, crawling, climbing, carrying, throwing,
          swimming) that use the whole body rather than artificially
          constrained exercises that focus on specific muscles (like those
          afforded by most gym equipment).
        - Maximize contact with nature, e.g. by keeping plants, gardening,
          working with animals, hiking in the woods, or climbing trees (as
          also proposed by the biophilia philosophy).
        - Use a minimum of clothes and don't wear shoes: exposure to heat,
          cold, pressure, and other natural forces strengthens rather than
          weakens the body.
        - Expose yourself regularly to the sun or at least to natural
          light, to get sufficient vitamin D and prevent depression.
        - Try to sleep at least 8 hours a day, preferably in line with
          natural day-night rhythms (though people in pre-industrial
          societies do not sleep in contiguous blocks - see anthropology
          of sleep and segmented sleep).
        - Spend sufficient time relaxing, playing, and just "being in the
          present", without worrying about later.
        - Reduce overall levels of stress; avoid overworking in favor of
          downshifting and simple living.
        - Allow contact with dirt: soil contains plenty of beneficial
          bacteria that strengthen immunity. Eat fermented foods like
          sauerkraut, kim chi, kombucha, etc. Lifelong exposure to a
          variety of microbes may actually be necessary to prevent
          allergies and autoimmune diseases, as proposed by the hygiene
          hypothesis.
        - Rear children the way hunter-gatherers do: extended
          breast-feeding, carrying of babies on the body, co-sleeping,
          while allowing older children to play and explore
          autonomously.
        - Sit with legs level with rear end (essentially, in the squatting
          position), as people in indigenous tribes do.
        - Socialize and interact closely with a small group of real
          friends, instead of staying alone or "networking" with thousands
          of superficial acquaintances.
    

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_lifestyle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_lifestyle)

~~~
kybernetyk

        - Die with 22 years from measles.

~~~
rndn
What?! I didn't mean to imply that everything on this list is necessarily
relevant to modern lifestyle. It also says nothing about vaccination. The
parent comment asked for how human lifestyle looked like in prehistoric ages,
that's why I posted it. It also mentiones that our ancestors presumably
performed a variety of different movements each day (climbing, throwing etc.)
which I think is relevant. Maybe I should have removed the word
"recommendations" to not step into prejudiced territory.

------
webnrrd2k
YMMV, but I find that exercise is essential for me to loose weight. If I get a
lot of aerobic exercise, enough to tire myself out with out casing too much
pain or damage, then I sleep much better. I'm clear minded, and able to make
better decisions about what I eat. Also, exercise helps me to control stress,
which is a major factor in overeating. Oh, and when I exercise I don't like to
get so full, so it's easier to control my portion size.

I can loose weigh through diet alone, but it isn't consistent. Diet and
exercise together work much better in the long run.

------
SixSigma
Number of deaths is a poor metric.

Everyone dies.

Obesity contributes significantly to the 70 man years spent by patients in
dialysis every week in the US.

~~~
lobsterman
Yes, and a poor diet can cause diseases that will make your life miserable,
e.g. autoimmune.

~~~
rollthehard6
Where is the evidence that diet alone can cause autoimmune disease? As far as
I am aware, development of autoimmune disease is a complex process involving
many factors such as genetics and the effect of infections on the immune
system. Certainly there is anecdotal evidence of people improving their
symptoms or possibly eliminating them through diet but this is not the case
for every patient.

~~~
lobsterman
Yes, there are many factors, but our diet is the biggest (and greatly
underestimated by the medical profession). Many people with autoimmune would
benefit from eating paleo, not saying 100%. And yes, it's all anecdotal, but
there is a great deal of science behind it. I recommend reading [1] for a
better understanding.

Again, anecdotal, but my wife has autoimmune that attacks the thyroid, causing
her to have 180 bpm heart beat (24/7). Doctors recommended medicine that
further attacks the thyroid, but she went with a paleo diet instead, after a
recommendation from my bio PhD sister who also has autoimmune. Her symptoms
stopped within a week or two, her values are now back to normal. Could be
something else, but I doubt it. She had the same thing 6 years ago and it
lasted for 6 months, while eating this medication that damaged her liver.

Turns out gluten in particular is linked to many autoimmune diseases. Here are
some shorter blog posts by the same author [2] on gluten, autoimmune and AIP.

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be many large scale studies on diet and
autoimmune, but personally, after understanding the underlying mechanisms
better, and having personal as well as overwhelming online anecdotal evidence,
I'm fairly convinced. I recommend keeping an open mind about this one and
start reading.

[1] [http://www.amazon.com/Paleo-Approach-Reverse-Autoimmune-
Dise...](http://www.amazon.com/Paleo-Approach-Reverse-Autoimmune-
Disease/dp/1936608391/) [2]
[http://www.thepaleomom.com/category/autoimmune-2/the-whys-
of...](http://www.thepaleomom.com/category/autoimmune-2/the-whys-of-the-aip)

------
marincounty
I used to run 7 neurotic miles a day since 8th grade. I did it to feel better,
and control stress. I know have a heart murmer. No one in my family has a
murmer. I think it was do to overdoing it? As I got older, in Order to control
anxiety, while saving my knees--I walk/run. It's usually every other night. I
don't exercise enough to work up a big appetite. I eat a basic diet, and don't
eat a lot of sugar, or fat-- out of poverty, and just lasyness(don't like to
shop). My last blood tests said I have a low risk of death by cardio vascular
disease. My point is I don't think you need to buy a Fitbit and push yourself
in order to keep your heart healthy; just a good brisk walk/run for 30-40
minutes every other day? Plus, my walks have done much more for my mood than
Any hetro, or tricyclic antidepressant. If I could do it all over again I
would have never asked to see a Psychiatrist for anxiety/depression.

~~~
jokoon
what do you mean by "neurotic mile" ?

I think the more you spread intensity, the better it is for your health.

------
Fogh
Keep in mind that a healthy diet is just as important.

------
unimportant
I would say obesity implies inactivity, so the headline is rather misleading.

~~~
ars
> I would say obesity implies inactivity

It most definitely does not.

You can be obese and active if your body weight setpoint is off - after
activity you are simply very hungry and eat.

The two things have some overlap but one does not imply the other in either
direction.

~~~
girvo
Body weight "set point"? What's that?

~~~
ars
The body has a desired weight built into it.

If you go over that weight it starts burning extra calories via thermogenesis,
not absorbing as much, and making you not hungry.

If you go under it reduces thermogenesis, digests more efficiently and makes
you hungry.

To try to change your weight you have to fight a VERY powerful feedback loop
in the body.

~~~
girvo
Right, I thought thats what you were talking about. It's only a theory, and
it's not that well supported in the literature[1]. Even presupposing it's
true, the literature shows that it can be changed -- you're not stuck for it
for life[0]. The issue I have with set-point theory are rather numerous, to be
perfectly honest, but the key part is that it's used by some to "give up" and
assume that being obese is "natural", which considering the massive negative
effects it has on your body, doesn't sit right with me.

I'm happy to be proven wrong, but all of the research I've read on it shows
that for the most part it's not a given that it's a real phenomenon. Human
nutrition and metabolism is super complex, for sure, but those sorts of twee
"too easy" explanations are rarely correct.

[0]
[http://jn.nutrition.org/content/127/9/1875S.short](http://jn.nutrition.org/content/127/9/1875S.short)
[1]
[http://www.fasebj.org/content/4/15/3310.short](http://www.fasebj.org/content/4/15/3310.short)

~~~
ars
I didn't say it can't be changed, just that it's very very difficult.

> but the key part is that it's used by some to "give up" and assume that
> being obese is "natural"

You are not born with any particular set point, you gain one based on your
life (although there are tendencies). But once you have it, it's very hard to
change.

I think of it like hysteresis - you need to work extra hard to get past it,
but then it settles on a new value.

> I'm happy to be proven wrong

My personal experience of trying to change my weight for a full year, all
sorts of methods, and eventually gave up for a while and one day weighed
myself just to see how I ended up: The exact, to the 1/5 of a pound! weight I
started with a year ago!

So I'm quite certain it's real, and yes, I'm giving up - somewhat.

