
LiquidText: A tool for academical note taking - Eugeleo
https://www.liquidtext.net/liquidtextadeeperdive
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helloworm
It’s a nice app for light users, but if you try to use it heavily as a
detailed infinity board with lots and lots of notes spread around the canvas
visually, you’ll quickly get flustered by the lack of quality-of-life
improvements . Examples would be lack of setting text styles , requiring
-every-single-textbox- you create to click through three or more separate ui
flows to change the: color, size, emphasis, (and font).

It’s a nice concept but their devs have moved on and barely update it at all.
Trivially small feature updates are spun as huge improvements , but only
released every six months to a year (!).

For the same paradigm but with a much, much better user experience with
constant quality of life upgrades and devs that actually spend full time job
on it, use Margin Notes 3 (iOS).

~~~
craigst
Fair point about the updates, we're getting ready to launch a few bigger ones
(es. a Win and MacOS version). Hopefully we can improve the other flows you
mention. (I'm founder @ LT)

~~~
solarkraft
How about a Linux version? (Edit: Yes, I enthusiastically use a Linux tablet)

~~~
craigst
Wish we could! Just not enough people yet--have to keep focused on max return
on investment. :) But we do plan to make a web version down the line, and
remove the platform dependence entirely (or at least largely).

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tduberne
I am more and more reluctant to use any note taking app. Ideally, notes I take
on the book I am reading today should still be available to me in 20 years. No
app can offer that kind of guarantee. I switched to using plaintext files, and
do not look back. The only thing one needs is to have a clear workflow to make
sure notes remain accessible and useful. I like the Zettelkasten method for
this (see eg [https://zettelkasten.de](https://zettelkasten.de), no
affiliation).

Not to criticize this app in particular, I actually quite like the concepts
listed (which remind me of the Zettelkasten idea). Just the whole idea of
keeping my thoughts in an app. Even if it does allow to export the data, it is
probably in a format that is difficult to use outside of the app, and thus
close to useless.

~~~
dmortin
> notes I take on the book I am reading today should still be available to me
> in 20 years. No app can offer that kind of guarantee

Emacs + Org Mode

You can be sure Emacs will still be around in 20 years and Org Mode stores
notes in text format.

~~~
jpmattia
If only I could figure out a way of scribbling with the iPadPro pen and get it
into org mode.

~~~
kickingvegas
I wouldn’t bother. I’ve always found it easier and better (for reinforcement)
to transcribe my notes/drawings into org-mode.

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kmill
I got an iPad just to use LiquidText, back when I had to study for my PhD
qualifying exam a few years ago. It has so many great UI affordances -- the
way it shows search results, highlighted text, connections between notes and
the text, the ability to easily see multiple parts of a document at the same
time, and others. It made reading and studying textbooks an experience
rivaling the real thing (and you don't have to lug them around). It was just
what I needed to prepare, and I attribute a nontrivial fraction of why I
passed the exam to having used LiquidText.

I don't really use it anymore, though. I use JabRef on my desktop to organize
papers, and I haven't yet ironed out a workflow that incorporates LiquidText.

~~~
craigst
Can I ask why you don't use it anymore? (I'm founder at LT) Anything we could
do to make it more of a post-school app for you as well?

~~~
ktm5j
I would like to second the multiplatform suggestion. I want to be able to see
my notes on _any_ of my devices, not just Mac/ios, otherwise it's just not
worth it to me.

Your software looks great! And I would happily fork over cash for it, but I
need a Linux client ;)

Best of luck

~~~
craigst
Thanks! Hopefully Linux some day, Windows coming soon, in beta. :)

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dang
Posted as a Show HN in 2012:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4401550](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4401550)

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chrismmay
Ok, grammar nazi alert. Who uses the word academical? I had to google it just
to confirm it is indeed a word, albeit a rarely used one that is
indistinguishable from the simpler, and in my opinion, the proper word,
“academic”.

A bit like saying “that’s nonsensical” vs “that’s nonsense’.
[https://wikidiff.com/academic/academical](https://wikidiff.com/academic/academical)

~~~
helloworm
Why be so polemical?

~~~
chrismmay
I know, I’m insufferableical. I need a vacationical.

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irwt
I have the impression that most people in this thread are using LiquidText the
wrong way. I use it on a daily basis and love it, but one has to know in what
scenarios to use it. If you have to write lots of notes, don't use it. As much
as I love the app, its note taking capabilities are not the best. Where
LiquidText really shines is when one has to do deep research. I usually upload
several papers around a similar topic to LiquidText, and keep the note section
more for finding snippets of all the papers. Most of my best ideas came from
using this app. All that said, I would love if the note taking part of
LiquidText would be more similar to GoodNotes. Combining the pros of those two
apps would be a killer app I'd be willing to pay on a monthly basis.

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throwaway72v2
I tried LiquidText some time ago, as it looked well suited for the intense
period of self-learning I was about to embark on. It was indeed very good
overall, except for the lack of one essential feature, which was an absolute
deal-breaker:

I can't search for my own notes.

The searches turn up everything in the texts written by others that you put
into this app, but not _the stuff you yourself write_.

No serious learning from any non-trivial text is possible unless the learner
can engage in a dialogue with the text. There are entire books and academic
journals dedicated to marginalia and reader commentary through the centuries.
I'm not going to use a piece of learning-related technology if it renders me
completely unable to go back to my own thoughts on a subject, which I put work
into.

~~~
helloworm
For those wondering why there is all this discussion in these apps rather than
just usingb vim or org mode; these apps mentioned here all are first-class-ink
apps. (Trying to make the analogy to first-class-function PL’s).

So, here the discussion is on apps that have native ink support (for iOS, that
would be via iPad and Apple Pencil).

So I guess they don’t have search because a majority of users use liquidtext
primarily with inked notes or pasted inked notes from the clipboard. I guess
text extraction is way harder of a problem to solve - hence no searching.

Text boxes are still very useful for title boxes and also detailed paragraphs
of concentrated info - again, I used both of these in liquidtext but was
immediately frustrated with even the lack of keyboard shortcuts for making
text bold/underlined, changing sizes, or color. I did contact their support to
request adding in keyboard shortcuts.. but instead they added in other more
complicated features such as some weird inking mode switch. Hmmm adding in
keyboard shortcuts for bold and changing size and color vs a switchable
“inking”-mode .. surely the former is dead easy compared to the latter .....

~~~
throwaway72v2
To speak for myself, I don't care about ink. I don't even use Apple's pencil.
I want to type things into a comment box and be able to search for what I
typed later.

This app got started in 2012. It's 2020, and I can't.

~~~
helloworm
Agreed. Searching in non ink should be a piece of cake. I suspect it’s been
unimplemented for the same reason that my own request for keyboard shortcuts
for bold/underline/change-size has been ignored - they don’t really care about
user needs and only do the stuff they like. Which tells you something about
the management of the product ...

~~~
craigst
My apologies for the unimplemented features! Please know it's not because we
don't care, we have real-human tech support for even our free users because we
desperately care. But we have to focus on the largest demand requests. Fwiw,
the biggest request is desktop support, which are in beta now.

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phren0logy
I really love this app on my iPad Pro. Very helpful way to make sense of many
documents with overlapping data. I really wish it had (or integrated with) a
good timeline app.

~~~
craigst
Thanks! We've thought about that. The next update will add some tagging
features that won't solve that, but will get you partway to a solution to the
timeline issue.

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jtth
I like LiquidText. But I couldn't really do anything with the notes, so I
stopped using it.

I would pay $200 a year for something on iOS/MacOS that combined Tinderbox and
LiquidText and let me set formatting for export.

~~~
cac1
Epiphany WorkFlow isn't quite what you asked for, but I do believe you would
find it a reasonable fit for your needs. Its output can go into Apple's Pages
for final formatting, and it's free until Jan. 1, 2021. There after just $20
for a permanent copy. Disclosure: I wrote it.
[https://apps.apple.com/us/app/epiphany-
workflow/id1490449900...](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/epiphany-
workflow/id1490449900?mt=12)

I admit that this looks like a bit of an ad, but I think it's fair use. If I
offend anyone, I apologize.

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jxy
The usual questions go:

1\. How do I export or backup the data?

2\. How do I use the data when the app dies?

~~~
craigst
You can export doc+notes as PDF, or export notes as a DOCX file. Uses iCloud
Backup for backup, but dedicated solution coming probably this summer. Thanks
for asking! (I'm founder @ LT)

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cjamesd
Nitpick on the title used for this post: academical is not a word.

~~~
kmill
It isn't?

[https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/academical](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/academical)

[https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/acad...](https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/academical)

[https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/academical](https://www.merriam-
webster.com/dictionary/academical)

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29athrowaway
Add "for iPhone and iPad" to the title please.

~~~
craigst
It's in beta for PC now! (I'm founder @ LT)

~~~
29athrowaway
All PC operating systems? You mean I can get it for BSD or Linux?

~~~
craigst
Sorry...I should've been clearer. PC-Windows only. :( But Web version is
planned to come in the future.

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steipete
LiquidText is powered by the PSPDFKit PDF SDK!
[https://pspdfkit.com/](https://pspdfkit.com/)

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davidcollantes
What do the in-app purchases provide? Is there a sign up required? Does this
requires/stores data on a third party server?

~~~
craigst
1\. The In-app-purchase gives you inking, linking by drawing lines, freeform
excerpts, multiple documents in a single project, and more. 2\. Sign-up
required: no. 3\. Does this require 3rd party servers: no, stores everything
locally.

Happy to answer any other questions (I'm founder @ LT)!

~~~
spott
Is there any way to export the data into a standard, editable file format?
(Ideally something like markdown...)? I hate to build up a huge library of
notes that are only usable in one piece of software...

~~~
craigst
Yes, even in the free version, export as PDF (higher fidelity), or export
notes as an outline in DOCX for easy editing in Word.

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maxrmk
Looks really cool! I'm going to see if I can get into the beta, then give it a
shot.

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cac1
It looks very useful for projects of relatively limited scope.

Of course I'm biased. I wrote Epiphany WorkFlow for the Mac. It's similar but
more practical for larger projects and it's free (for now).

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anigbrowl
Looks awesome but iPad-only? Come on.

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O_H_E
Windows in Beta testing, and looks like macOS is in some kind of Alpha.

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saul_goodman
iPad and iPhone only? Really?

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craigst
Yes, but desktop versions are coming. We're testing Windows in beta now! (I'm
founder @ LT)

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chid
I just picked up a Windows tablet for work - any chance I can join the beta?

~~~
craigst
Yes, sign up for Windows updates on our website; we'll be doing another round
of invites in like 2 weeks.

