
Fire quickly and compassionately - coffeemug
http://www.defmacro.org/2013/07/10/firing.html
======
gscott
Don't hire people just to test them out then throw them away.

Some people have responsibilities if your going to fire someone quickly then
you have just turned their life upside down now that they can't pay for rent,
food, and other bills.

~~~
sdoowpilihp
I couldn't agree with your sentiment more. A great antidote to having to fire
quickly, is to be better at hiring effectively (a task much easier said than
done). Most of us at startups, being driven by younger people that have not
had the chance to develop managerial experience, are very very bad at hiring
and seeing indicators of what will make a potential employee a "good fit" (and
by "good fit", I mean someone that can drive business goals, not the rampant
issue I have seen of startups passing on an otherwise good candidate because
they aren't a good "culture fit". Good business hiring shouldn't be a high
school popularity contest).

We could all leave a lot less damage in our wake by investing some time into
learning how to quickly identify good candidates.

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snorkel
I've managed many developers and I only ever once had to fire one, and it
wasn't fast process at all because you first need to prove that they have
violated a specific and clearly documented standard by which the whole team is
held to, otherwise you just invited a wrongful termination suit into your
workplace. People are not virtual servers, you can't just tear them down and
launch replacements as needed. The key is hire carefully and mentor as needed.

~~~
btilly
Where are you located?

Many programmers on this site are in "at will" states like California and
Texas. Meaning that you can be fired at any time for no particular reason.

The only time that wrongful termination comes into it is if there is evidence
that you had a reason, and that reason is unlawful.

~~~
chollida1
> Many programmers on this site are in "at will" states like California and
> Texas. Meaning that you can be fired at any time for no particular reason

I just happened to be talking to our inhouse council and brought this up.

he believes you are incorrect. There is a legal distinction between a layoff
and a firing, where layoff is defined as not for cause and firing is for
cause.

At will permits layoffs as you state.

However firings, even in at will states, can still get you into alot of
trouble if you don't have paperwork to show that you layed out a performance
improvement plan and documented all cases of the behaviour that go the
employee fired.

~~~
btilly
See
[http://business.ca.gov/StartaBusiness/AdministeringEmployees...](http://business.ca.gov/StartaBusiness/AdministeringEmployees/EqualEmploymentOpportunityLaws/AtWillEmployment.aspx)
for confirmation of what I said, in the way that I said it.

Your inhouse council is also correct. Should it come to a lawsuit, it is
supposed to be decided in the way that I described. However there is a world
of difference between winning the lawsuit, and not having one. The stronger
the case that you have made to the ex-employee, the less likely it is that
they will find a lawyer who is willing to represent them in a lawsuit.

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Patrick_Devine
Did the author mean "fire quickly" in the sense that he should determine
quickly whether a person is a good fit, or did he mean when you make the
decision you should do so with some expediency? It seemed like the former, but
the conclusion didn't seem to follow the premise.

Additionally, it seemed like his business was set up to avoid friction and is
going to be fairly homogenous in terms of the composition of its people. I
think a lot of employees would be petrified about pointing out poor direction
for fear of being voted out.

Sometimes you need a little bit of friction to make the better decisions.

~~~
coffeemug
Author here.

I meant get the person out of the job that doesn't fit them well quickly,
which involves making the decision and following through.

As for people being afraid of speaking out, that's never been a problem here.
The rule is simple -- get all the arguments out in the open, but once the
decision is made, everyone has to be on board. It's ok (and desirable) to have
a lot of friction in the first part of the process, but is detrimental to have
friction in the second part (after the decision has been made).

EDIT: also, it's extremely helpful to periodically re-evaluate things, and and
debate flaws in direction. The trick is to keep it constructive (as opposed to
having one person not play ball and derail development). Getting this process
running smoothly is very difficult and requires a lot of trust, but once it
works, it works phenomenally well.

~~~
throwawayga
Slight pivot to your point, but when actually firing, it should also be quick
and compassionate. That is, I have seen managers who can't bring themselves to
say "you are fired", instead waffling around the subject. It is much better to
be direct and to the point, but compassionate. Don't leave the employee
guessing.

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at-fates-hands
I also would put some of the burden on the employee. If you're not doing your
due diligence to find out about the company before you join them, you might be
just as responsible for not "being a good fit".

I've double clutched on several companies after turning up negative reviews on
the company, or knowing someone who worked with said manager. In all three
cases, I was right to stay away and was glad I did more research on the
company I was about to join.

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btilly
In [http://www.amazon.com/First-Break-All-The-
Rules/dp/074351011...](http://www.amazon.com/First-Break-All-The-
Rules/dp/0743510119) something like this is said. A manager who had been
identified as being excellent said, "I've never waited too long for the right
hire, or fired the wrong one too fast."

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calibraxis
Interesting. How does RethinkDB implement compassionate firing (as in the
Quora link at the end, where he could stay on the payroll for months while
looking for a new job)?

I imagine it's easy for a programmer (who passed your entrance requirements)
to find a decent job in a few days; not sure about others.

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jpdoctor
The body of law in HR matters is completely missing from the post. I'd argue:
No post is complete without it, because the mistakes can be so costly (both in
lost time/focus with lawyers as well as money.)

