
Sony introduces the DPT-CP1 digital paper tablet with a $600 price tag - prostoalex
https://qz.com/1283932/sony-introduces-the-dpt-cp1-digital-paper-tablet-does-it-do-enough-to-justify-the-600-price-tag/
======
kristianp
What a strangely negative review of something the reviewer hasn't actually set
eyes on. It doesn't make sense to compare the price of this to 5000 sheets of
paper or a luxury pen.

The techcrunch blurb is less focused on the price and has slightly more
technical info: [https://techcrunch.com/2018/05/21/sony-shrinks-its-
digital-p...](https://techcrunch.com/2018/05/21/sony-shrinks-its-digital-
paper-tablet-down-to-a-more-manageable-10-inches/)

~~~
asdsa5325
It's also not counting printer ink, which for 5000 sheets, will cost a lot.

~~~
tonyarkles
For a laser, $80?

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danharaj
I have a Remarkable tablet which I think is the only direct competitor to
Sony's writable e-paper tablets. It's really jank! That's to be expected of
early adoption. But also, it's nice to use. I love taking math notes in it.

The main stat for these products is the pen latency. Sony's previous product,
the DPT-RP1, according to reviews, had worse latency than the Remarkable,
which to me is only noticeable if I make a fast stroke and look for it. I
don't have any official numbers from Sony though.

I'm watching this space as it develops. I preordered the Remarkable which took
a lot off its price tag-- I wouldn't buy any of these devices at their current
price points. They would need to be much more polished. A lot of that is on
the software side, so such a device with an open, supported platform would be
quite exciting.

~~~
DrJaws
There isn't only one.

Onyx boox max 2 is better in everything than remarkable or sony.

~~~
kentt
Why? I'm interested in picking something like this up.

~~~
DrJaws
It's an android device with access to the play store, that mans kindle, epub,
pdf, cbr, browsing, reading pocket articles, etc etc. It also have an HDMI and
can be used as monitor.

check it out the youtube videos, the device is expensive but amazing, nothing
comes close.

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userbinator
_Sony has built a new app (for iOS and Android) that lets users port over
documents to read, notate, or sign on the CP1._

IMHO this is the worst part: this "appification"(?) of devices, essentially
using proprietary interfaces, is a hideous affront to interoperability and
easy data exchange. Why does every device manufacturer feel like it has to put
in effort to develop a bespoke application just to interface with its own
devices, when there are plenty of standard interfaces they could use? USB mass
storage, or if you want to be fancy, MTP, is an ideal way of transferring
files between devices --- and it's a shame that it hasn't become more popular.
Instead we see more of this proprietary shit, and even "cloud based" devices
that somehow need to reach out into the Internet in order to communicate and
exchange files with your PC sitting less than a metre away... if I buy
something like this I don't want to install an app, register an account for a
service (no doubt accompanied by some long and not-very-privacy-reassuring
ToS), or even need an Internet connection --- I want to take it out of the
box, turn it on, draw on it, then plug it into my PC and start copying files
to/from it.

On the other hand, once the Chinese start making clones of these, I wouldn't
be surprised if they did use standard UMS or MTP, like all their existing
eBook readers and media players/recorders.

~~~
dingo_bat
> Why does every device manufacturer feel like it has to put in effort to
> develop a bespoke application just to interface with its own devices,

Can you name successful tablet manufacturers? There's only one. And they lock
down their tablet like a vice. The fact is people don't give a shit about all
this. They want a good device. If Sony is to succeed, they'd rather succeed
like this than succeed with a very open device that can be used to subvert
their tool chain.

~~~
dingaling
> There's only one.

In 2017 Apple only had 27% of the tablet market, and that's a slight increase.
Samsung and Amazon are strong competitors.

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jpdus
I got the DPT-RP1 2 months ago for my graduate studies. Despite all the known
problems, one of the best gadgets I ever got.

It replaced my notebook completely and lots of papers as well. The lack of
apps (compared to Ipad Pro/Surface etc.) is a feature for me as the device
focuses on its strengths and limits distractions for me. It is way more
convenient to take to meetings than any other electronic device. Reading is
perfect (and no comparison to any non-e-paper device) and note taking works
well too. Had no problem with the app so far (on windows). My only cons are
the high price and build quality (does not really feel like a "premium"
device, don't know if it holds for many years).

Would highly recommend the device (RP1/CP1 - whatever size desired) for anyone
who needs to read a lot of papers / take a lot of notes and doesn't mind the
high price.

~~~
newen
I have the DPT-S1 and it's was a great device to use as a student when I had
to read tons and tons of papers. I could mark up the papers all I want and not
lose my papers (which I used to do all the time). Though the pen is pretty
frustrating to use (because of the lag) and the device is super slow at
loading, it was bearable enough that I would use it all the time. Now that I
don't have to read pdfs all that much, I don't use it much. But I really want
a device like that except it's fast, has a nice pen, has high dpi, and you can
browse the web with it. Well..I guess basically I'm thinking of a tablet
except eink.

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sharpercoder
The quality of (any) mutable e-paper tablet will boil down to:

1\. writing movement-to-pixel latency (should be around 5ms)

2\. writing experience (tilting support, pressure levels, anti-aliasing, ...)

3\. speed of apps on the device

4\. shareability of annotations

5\. "stroke-recognition" of diagrams, text, math formula's, etc

6\. mashing of touch & pencil gestures

7\. apps on the platform

I'd argue that only the Surface 4 solves (1) & (2) completely, with the
competition between 75% and 90%. Speed (3) is a solved problem for mobile
CPU/GPU/LED/OLED hardware, but e-paper is not close to 50%. (4) is also still
quite young, since the "write on digital paper" thing is not even being used
by enthusiasts (only some rarae niches show consistent use). (5) is mostly
solved for handwriting recognition, and good progress is made on diagrams and
math formula's. But it's young, and certainly not yet a commodity. (6) seems
quite solved, as most algorithms to distinct between pencils and hand/finger
touches work quite well. (7) is not yet solved, there are no good apps. Some
exist, but they have "handwriting" as a feature, but not as a core feature.

Color may come in as 8th, but is for most digital authoring not that
important. It would certainly increase the potential market for a good e-paper
device, but would come last on above list.

In the past 15 years, progress on e-paper display technology has been slow but
steady. Is the latency problem solved yet? Or are we still around 100ms?

~~~
threeseed
Latency on the DPT-RP1 is exactly the same as those third party pens with an
old iPad. Very noticeable.

Apple's iPad Pro has excellent latency IMHO.

------
glial
I'll be curious to read reviews of this from people who have laid hands on it.
I bought a ReMarkable and absolutely love it. I am in graduate school, so I
take a lot of notes and read a lot of papers, and the ReMarkable fits this
need very well (though it could use a bit more flexibility in file
organization). In have used an iPad for papers, but I prefer the B&W, matte,
slightly textured screen for extended reading sessions. More options on the
market is good IMO.

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gravypod
Unfortunately many of these devices from Sony have a few major downsides.

    
    
        1. Extremely expensive 
        2. No way to export my work to my system (Linux desktop)
        3. No "endless" scratch pad with single-click next-page 
    
    

These devices would be a godsend for long meetings, technical doodles, and
ereading. It could become an integral part of my day to day workflow. I just
can't afford this heafty price tag for this restricted feature set and I think
many other people have this mindset.

~~~
asdsa5325
> No way to export my work to my system (Linux desktop)

It sounds like you can export to a PDF, no?

~~~
threeseed
You need Sony's software to transfer files back/forth. And it's only available
on Mac/PC.

But looks like there is maybe a workaround: [https://github.com/janten/dpt-
rp1-py](https://github.com/janten/dpt-rp1-py)

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softgrow
The device is A5 not A4! [https://www.sony.jp/digital-paper/products/DPT-
CP1/](https://www.sony.jp/digital-paper/products/DPT-CP1/) Doesn't seem to be
available anywhere or have reviews as not being released till June and then
only into the Japanese market. [http://kakaku.com/kaden/digital-
memo/ranking_6576/](http://kakaku.com/kaden/digital-memo/ranking_6576/) shows
other (weird and wonderful) devices in the Japanese market that might be of
interest, like Boogieboard and
[http://www.kingjim.co.jp/pomera/dm200/](http://www.kingjim.co.jp/pomera/dm200/)
Pomera DM200.

~~~
chx
> Pomera DM200.

What am I missing here? What can it do vs an old Vaio P or even the GDP
Pocket?

~~~
softgrow
Distraction free writing seems to be its attraction - e.g.
[http://journeyto1000.com/distraction-free-writing-pomera-
dm1...](http://journeyto1000.com/distraction-free-writing-pomera-dm100/) Sit
down and write your 10,000 words towards your novel, blog post etc.

~~~
chx
Write! on Linux will do that too.

------
cjhanks
I really hope this is really going to be released. And I _really_ hope this
technology can be integrated with standard Linux desktops.

The ability to read PDF's on paper-white would be really nice.

The ability to read/write code on the paper-white would probably improve the
lives of many developers, myself included.

~~~
gravypod
You can get that now with the Onyx Boox Max 2 [1] which as a built in HDMI
display input.

[1] - [https://onyxboox.com/boox_max2](https://onyxboox.com/boox_max2)

~~~
cjhanks
To save people time: [http://www.ectaco.com/onyx-boox-
max/](http://www.ectaco.com/onyx-boox-max/)

And not to be _too_ cynical. But has anybody ever tried them an found them to
work well? $800 is an expensive experiment.

------
chx
As with the ReMarkable: call me when you got handwriting recognition on the
device. I had a CrossPad, the progress in twenty years is very seriously
underwhelming. The CrossPad allowed you to write on a notepad with a special
pen and it stored your strokes in a vector format. The ReMarkable and these
Sony devices allow you to write on a screen with a special pen and they record
your strokes in a vector format. The ability to click an icon to get a new
page vs actually flipping to a new page is all what happened in _twenty
years_! The price is about the same, it was 400 in 1997, these things are 600
now, which is about inflation.

~~~
fra
I use an ipad pro for note taking in OneNote with the Pencil. While
handwriting recognition would be nice (make the notes searchable), it's still
extremely useful without it. I just review my notes every evening and take
action on the important bits right then.

~~~
dingo_bat
I thought one note automatically makes all the handwriting searchable. Is that
not true?

~~~
tonyarkles
I haven't tried it on the iPad, but it definitely does on the Surface 3.

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unit_circle
I have had the original DPT-S1 since 2015. I got it before starting school and
have used it for textbooks throughout. Weighs a few pounds less than any
textbook, let alone all my textbooks. For this it is amazing.

For handwriting... Not so much. Can only write with one hand in one
orientation.

New split screen mode is pretty tantalizing. I could be persuaded to upgrade
if this model has a better stylus situation--I could stop carrying a notebook
altogether most days.

P.S. To the sony employees out thre: A graphing app would be amazing

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nkrisc
I really would love a device like this for sketching in design meetings. But I
really can't see myself paying more than $250 for something like this.

The desirable feature for me is the display, primarily. I find e-ink displays
easier to read with variable overhead lighting situations. If this is flat on
a table in a conference room while I sketch I don't want too much
reflectivity.

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pasbesoin
What about being able to get or create an eInk display? (That you plug in /
connect to a computer.) Yeah, it's not going to deal with heavily moving
content well, but for reading and text editing, it could be great.

As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't have to be touch-enabled, either. Just a
non-fatiguing eInk display for viewing and working with mostly static / slowly
changing content.

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threeseed
Stay as far away from these as you can. I have owned the DPT-RP1 for 9 months
now and Sony being true to their form provides zero support. Zero. No updates
to the firmware, terrible customer support and no blogs or content about any
future for the product.

Buy an iPad Pro. Far better value for money.

~~~
cptskippy
That's my biggest reservation about Sony products. They treat software and
computers like consumer electronics that are expected to function with a fixed
feature set from the day they're born to the day they die.

I can see the merits in this for the less tech savy and that might have made
sense in the 90s but not today.

~~~
danso
That's ironic to me. I swore off Sony products in the early 2000s after being
burned on their early digital cameras and voice recorders, which were decent
hardware but ran only on proprietary software and storage formats (e.g. the
inferior and overpriced Memory Stick [0]). But the great quality of their
mirrorless cameras converted me into a fan. The PS4 is also pretty solid. That
said, I don't think I trust Sony enough yet to buy anything of theirs that
isn't a camera or game system.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_Stick](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_Stick)

~~~
eropple
Sony's Xperia line of phones are _great_. They feel amazing (though a little
worse than they used to; the Z3/Z3 Compact are, to me, peak phones) and I've
never had a problem with updates.

I prefer Panasonic cameras to Sony, but I do live and the consumer/prosumer
Sony cameras are too expensive for the feature set compared to Panasonic. If I
shot photos primarily I would probably own a Sony.

~~~
SamReidHughes
The main problem I had with the Z3C was that it had an ideal frictionless
plane of a back and kept sliding off of everything.

~~~
eropple
A lot of people had that problem, but it never really bothered me. My _other_
favorite phone was the iPhone 4, though, so at least I'm consistent. ;)

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cocacola1
Honestly, I kinda like the look of it. Not enough to drop $600 on it just yet,
but maybe a third or half.

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relyks
Has anyone used both or either the previous model, the DPT-RP1, and the
reMarkable? If you have, what's your opinion on using them? I'm considering
getting one of them for note-taking in classes

~~~
threeseed
I own the DPT-RP1 and regret purchasing it. If you compare it to the latest
iPad Pro the battery life is worse (no joke), the handwriting is very laggy,
the end of the pen wears down like a pencil, the software is a joke, the lack
of blacklight disappointing and the lack of updates or third party apps
unacceptable.

Remarkable looks genuinely interesting.

~~~
relyks
Wow that's insane. That defeats one of the primary purposes of having an eInk
screen.

Thanks for the response :)

My current solution is using Xournal on my Lenovo Yoga. (Xournal is amazing)

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gymshoes
I like the concept. I have a cheap lcd blackboard from eBay that I use to
doodle concepts on and it's amazing so I think to the right person this would
be really valuable as well.

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dingo_bat
The design is awesome. I like the sleek no nonsense aesthetic. Reminds me of
thinkpads of yore. We need phones and laptops that look like this.

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eyeball
I put a textured matte screen protector on my ipad pro. It feels very much
like pen on paper when writing with the Apple stylus.

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lewisinc
I really just want a simple laptop with one of these displays so that I can
code in the sun. Need me some sun.

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unixhero
That was really shitty journalism. A complete waste of my time.

