
Ask HN: How to find co-founders - valarauca1
The question is simple. I found a problem I really want to solve, there&#x27;s a pretty big market for the solution (data collation and storage of automotive test data).<p>Except I&#x27;m purely a software guy, and I&#x27;ll openly admit I know nothing about developing a business, networking, or money. So I&#x27;ll likely need a team.<p>How do you find one?
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jonnathanson
There's a mental hack I would use in situations like these. Essentially, stop
looking for a "cofounder" and start looking for a "collaborator."

Right now you don't have a business, per se. You have a concept. It's an
interesting concept, but it doesn't need a cofounder just yet. Turn the
concept into a project. Work on any bits and pieces of the project that you
can. Go to meetups, bring your idea to a hackathon, and maybe do a Show HN
when you've got something tangible. (Something tangible could even be a really
interesting blog post about the topic.) All the while, look for collaborators
to help out.

The "collaborator" mindset frees you of the mental bottleneck of having to
have a cofounder before making progress. It also allows you to work with, and
to vet people instead of having a shotgun wedding to the first would-be
cofounder you think you get along with.

PG once wrote that a sign of a good team is one that's worked together and
knows each other. You can't push a magic button and add five or six years of
shared history to any cofounder you meet. But you _can_ get some work
experience with collaborators before cofounding a business with one of them.
You're looking for someone you can click with over the next five or more
years; it's worth a few extra months of scramble in the beginning to find
someone great.

~~~
bbulkow
I also use the "turn it into a project" mental hack. Use your engineering
mentality to "break it down" and do one step at a time.

Don't shirk the "who can I sell it to for how much" question, though. That's
the common fear/concern of technical guys.

~~~
meowface
I suspect the majority of people who see their startups as a "business" before
they see them as a "project" tend to fail, or at least not be very successful.

------
7Figures2Commas
Short answer: don't.

Long answer: if you feel you can't get started in any meaningful way on your
own, hire somebody who can assist you. While truly good people can be hard to
find, it will be a thousand times easier to find a competent paid consultant
than a competent co-founder. After all, why in the world would somebody
experienced who has valuable skills that can be monetized want to start a
business with someone he or she doesn't have a long-standing relationship
with? The folks who would be interested in this are precisely the folks you
want to avoid.

Additional benefits of paying instead of partnering include the ability to
retain full control and ownership of your business (if one materializes) as
well as the ability to quickly and cleanly terminate the person you retain if
he or she is unable to meet your needs.

If the person you retain delivers and there's a great personal fit that would
lend itself to an ongoing collaboration, there's nothing stopping you from
later negotiating a co-founder relationship.

------
tet
This is like asking how to find a wife. A co-founder should be someone with
not only have knowledge in certain domains but someone who have the same
passion for your planning startup like you do. Attending to different events
could be a good thing but start with the beginning, search your co-founder in
your friends. Didn't find anything? Try to meet new people and don't just
search them for their " abilities ".

------
wusatiuk
I would also suggest not to look for a cofounder, per se. Try to get a working
MVP and get some progress yourself. Even if you are a pure software guy, you
are easily able to learn the 1x1 of business development as biz dev is nothing
more than 0 and 1. :) I mean, the rules are the same for code & business.
There are some variables, some loops, some functions, that is it.

I would not specifically search for a cofounder, but search for the right
people who can help you to push the product, even without getting 30% of your
company. people who like to talk about idea, help you with daily problem
startup problems,...

within a very short time, you will learn much about people, how they act and
you will soon find one or more people who are really interested in pushing you
project forward.

just because i am curious - is the tool planned for the european or us market?

~~~
valarauca1
Both that standards organization I'm within/from is based in the EU, but is
strongly catching on within the US. Several companies have adopted within just
a year.

I'm based in the US, but there will be an EU market.

------
JSeymourATL
Don't underestimate your own abilities to develop a business, network, find &
manage money. Conversely, it's easy to overestimate those skills in others.

~~~
bbulkow
+1 on this, big time.

As a technical guy who became funded & CEO now CTO, getting a business plan
both is, and isn't, rocket science.

Ask yourself: what would an investor want to know?

They want to know how expensive to develop, time horizon, risks, possible
positive outcomes.

That's all a business plan is. If you haven't answered this for yourself, or
it's just a "feeling" not backed up by data, then you don't really know it.

Run this past your friends, people who will give you a straight answer.

The entrepreneurial spirit is taking the bull by the horns and wrestling, not
saying "I'm not a business guy." Try it yourself.

If you try it yourself, and "fail", you'll learn the kind of business guy who
adds value, then you can look intelligently and correctly.

If you try and succeed, well, there you are.

------
gregpilling
I am a business guy in automotive for the last 25 years.

What is your product? Who is the buyer?

------
exelius
So you're software guy and you can build things. You even have an idea of what
to build.

The "business/money" part of things is easy. If you get big enough, you can
hire an accountant to do most of that for you. The "networking" thing is
pretty easy too: you can hire salespeople for that.

What you need is someone who knows this industry from a strategic standpoint:
who are your competitors, who are your customers, and how do you sell to them?
What do they even want? What value does your product give them over a more
generic data warehousing solution?

I can tell you right now that your idea is neither novel nor particularly
valuable (if your customers are big multinational companies, it's just a
little custom reporting code on top of their enterprise data warehousing
platform). Until you turn it into a product that serves some customer's needs,
it will remain without value. But what you need is someone who understands the
market enough to be able to tell you these things.

I would say your best option would be to find someone in the industry and say
"Hey, I have a business idea I'd like to bounce off of you". Don't worry about
people stealing your idea -- if it's worth doing, someone has probably already
done it. That doesn't mean there's not an opportunity though, and you just
need to find someone qualified to judge that.

------
arsalanb
I want to share an experience that I think will provide a different
perspective. Might not be true in everybody's case, but just my two cents.

People often claim that having a deep-rooted work history and relation with a
person and knowing them well suggests they could be somebody you can work on a
startup with. My experience has proven, that this isn't always true. Having
somebody you know inside-out work on you with a startup is a good thing, but
also make sure that you don't mix your emotions with your work.

Your best-friend or fiancé might make a great co-founder (considering they
work in the same space as you), but it always makes it harder to talk business
with them. Emotions are always ugliest when they surface in work conditions.
Your cofounder is slacking? Just give them a subtle reminder. Oh wait, now you
can't because he's also your best friend so he expects you to let this slide.

Bad for business, worse when said business is in its earliest stages.

------
dj-wonk
I agree with most of the advice here. In addition, I'd suggest finding ways to
vet people before you commit to a "full" cofounder role. Some ways that work
for me:

    
    
      * Write about the topics and projects that you want to work on
      * Connect with people with similar interests
      * Make time to do small trial projects
      * Get outside your comfort zone
      * Focus on building something and/or testing a business hypothesis
      * Structure your collaborations with tangible deliverables
    

Once you find some starter projects -- assuming that you are starting off
without external funding -- I highly suggest using a dynamic equity split
based on time and resources contributed.

Give people a nice out (e.g. "thanks for helping test out that idea, sorry it
didn't pan out like we hoped") if the project doesn't work well. Think of it
like dating.

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shekhar101
IMHO, the best way to find like minded co-founders is to actively attend
meetups, hackathons, conferences and related events. You will be surprised how
often you will find passionate people who are very much willing to work and
join forces with people like you.

~~~
mhhughes8
We agree that offline methods are very important to the co-founder search too.
In addition to an online matching platform at CoFoundersLab.com, CoFoundersLab
holds quarterly Matchups events in many cities (via Meetup) to facilitate some
of the "in-person dating" for founders:
[http://www.cofounderslab.com/entrepreneurs-meetup-
networking](http://www.cofounderslab.com/entrepreneurs-meetup-networking)

------
mgirdley
I went through a similar experience recently. My solution:

1) Find a place where startup people hang out (in San Antonio, there's a co-
working space designed for this called Geekdom). Startup people are rarely
found in big companies.

2) Find ways to get involved in the startup community by volunteering or just
helping others. You'll determine very quickly who are the quality people and
who you'll like working with.

3) Get an idea and go talk to everyone about it. Ask for their advice and get
mentored. Even if it's a bad idea, you'll develop relationships and they'll
connect you to other startup people who can help or possibly get involved.

~~~
bjones53
I agree, the startup community can be a great place to meet potential
partners.

To extend on something you mentioned, I suggest that you look for volunteer
opportunities outside the startup community. The startup community is great,
but volunteering with different organizations exposes you to people with
diverse backgrounds and different skill sets. Volunteering is great for
building a network of people with skills that compliment yours; it allows you
to develop genuine relationships with likeminded individuals.

------
swah
Sad to say, but I'll probably go alone when I try to create another business.
The first time I tried to start with best friends, they jumped off after a
couple months and I hated them for it.

~~~
alimoeeny
Sir, Why did you do that. I am sorry to hear that. As other's have said,
finding a co-founder is like finding a wife, you just don't assume your best
friend will be a good life partner. and you can ruin your friendship this way.

~~~
swah
Its been a few years, but I probably believed that we could trust each other
and that was pretty important.

------
Seb86
Good question, has anyone tried Cofounderslab.com or similar services ?

~~~
acremades
CoFoundersLab had been working on solving the problem of cofounder matchmaking
for about four years now. It's a big problem: research suggests that of all
startups that fail, about 33% fail primarily due to cofounder related issues!

In this quest, they have brought onboard various experts such as former
executives from Match.com, and leading researchers for the Kauffman
Foundation. Furthermore, CoFoundersLab has acquired several companies over the
years enhancing its IP portfolio, and execution capability.

Through CoFoundersLab, members can search a self-selected pool of cofounder
candidates, while getting a much better sense for wether the cofounder
candidates posses complementary skills, and have compatible personalities,
goals, and values!

There is no "silver bullet" solution, but CoFoundersLab.com is an out of this
world better approach to embarking on the journey of cofounder search!

Disclosure: I am the CEO at Onevest and we just announced a merger with
CoFoundersLab.

~~~
morgante
Hey, no offense but this comment reads like a press release. It's possibly to
share your message/perspective in a forum without using terms like "enhanced
its IP portfolio."

~~~
rmena123
Get over it, it was fine. I love when people start by saying "no offense" for
now on just say "offense".

Disclosure: No interest in either of companies or own any stock. Disclosures
like this are for jackasses like the comment above by morgante.

------
rmena123
In a perfect world yea it would be great to find someone from working on
projects or school or years and years of knowing someone. I am in the same
position as you, I am more of a designer/business guy. I don't have years to
wait around and hope someone pops up. I am not sure what will happen in the
future, but I know this it comes down to luck and no one way, I don't care
what YC says, yes in a perfect world they maybe right, but I live it now and
so do you.

------
spinlock
I would go to car lots and talk to as many salesmen as you can. You might find
someone who's interested and they would have industry experience. Set a goal
of 100 car lots and hit the pavement. When you're done you might not have a
partner but you'll have a lot of data.

Then, choose another venue, lather, rinse, repeat. You just need to dedicate
yourself to solving this priblem. Good luck.

------
ldec
I agree with most of the comments here, but wanted to add that when you are
ready, if you are in the US, most business schools have an 'entrepreneurship
club' or something similar, which mostly have a group of business-savvy people
desperately looking for technical co-founders. The students running these
clubs will be very receptive to an email from someone like you.

------
taksintik
Finance / biz development guy here. It's real hard talking long term
monetization strategy with some developers. I've tried cofounders meetings but
been unable to find a The right type of hungry. I think it may be the fact
that i live in Thailand. A country rich in programming drifters.

~~~
valarauca1
Most programmers (in the USA, let alone developing country I assume) are
heavily philosophically influenced by the free software movement.

The idea of selling a lot of software for money is kinda foreign to developers
who learned their trained purely from the internet. Even me I'd rather make an
open source project and sell support rather then just sell black box software.

~~~
taksintik
I hear what your saying but I just don't get it. It's all how we view things I
guess. From my perspective Making money while solving problems is good thing.
No reason to be shy about it.

~~~
valarauca1
The goal is to innovate, never hurt innovation, let people innovate, fix,
hack, break, etc so better things get made. The open source movement is a
humanistic movement, that people deserve better and will naturally make better
things if we allow them too.

The goal of open source isn't to stop making money. The GPL specifically
encourages companies to exist to support and make money off of software. The
problem is from a business standpoint its very profitable to make somebody
_dependent_ on your product.

This is where we meet the breaking point. Their goals are different, a
business wants to exploit while open source wants to grow.

How do we fix this? Adoption. When you try to sell a service to a company,
namely a technology company being open source is a positive for one simple
reason.

>If you fail they won't lose the service.

Its the ultimate insurance. They don't have to _bet the farm_ on your company.
It makes it easier to bid and grow on software as your failure isn't tied to
your plateform's failure. Which is often the largest issue with new technology
companies.

Nobody would buy an IBM mainframe if IBM started last year. Nobody would have
faith, or believe. You can't do the same stunts as companies that are decades
old who built the industry as a new kid on the block.

------
tair
This is unbelievable. I was just now writing another related post over here
regarding my startup to solve this problem:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8097145](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8097145)

I will follow up here also. Thank you for the question!

------
charlie123517
Hey, I just created a Facebook group for entrepreneurs to collaborate, feel
free to check it out:
[https://www.facebook.com/groups/318404371669625/](https://www.facebook.com/groups/318404371669625/)

------
cottonseed
I met a business guy at a meetup in Boston last week who was doing something
in exactly this space and looking to build an engineering team. But it looks
like I threw his card out. Shit, sorry.

------
rwhitman
Being the software guy gives you a lot of leverage in the situation,
especially if you have a lucrative market lined up.

------
dzink
A good way to increase your chances of finding one is to do a lot of small
projects with different people who complement your skills. You have to work
with someone first to know if you are a good fit for something bigger (think
of it as dating before marriage). This is easier when you are on a campus
environment (which is why facebook and google started on campuses), and harder
once you're out of school.

We created [http://www.doerhub.com](http://www.doerhub.com) as a free tool to
fix that. People from different disciplines (from surgery, to hacking, AI,
business, law, 3d printing and human rights ) post what they are working
on/passionate about and anyone who likes their project can contribute by
joining, advising, becoming a beta user, doing a task etc. They collaborate
right on the site or outside of it. You can share areas you are advanced in
and learning in so you can discover complementary people easily
[http://peoplesearch-doerhub.herokuapp.com/viz/](http://peoplesearch-
doerhub.herokuapp.com/viz/) and do private or public projects.

Other than individual SV doers, UChicago was first full organization in our
beta [http://www.doerhub.com/at/uchicago](http://www.doerhub.com/at/uchicago)
(1/3rd of the finalists and both winners of their New Venture Challenge and
Social New Venture Challenge were using the site). And now we are opening it
for free to other universities, hackathons, hack clubs and organizations who
want people to get stuff done with others, instead of just talking about it.

When I (a hacker) posted this drone project
[http://www.doerhub.com/for/personaldrone](http://www.doerhub.com/for/personaldrone)
a pilot with military experience and a VC I didn't know ended up joining me.
Here are some other doerhub-powered teams:

[http://www.doerhub.com/for/kikisauceco](http://www.doerhub.com/for/kikisauceco)

[http://www.doerhub.com/for/whichvc](http://www.doerhub.com/for/whichvc)

[http://www.doerhub.com/for/bluetooth-
sensor](http://www.doerhub.com/for/bluetooth-sensor)

[http://www.doerhub.com/for/robopaint](http://www.doerhub.com/for/robopaint)

[http://www.doerhub.com/for/qcare](http://www.doerhub.com/for/qcare)

[http://www.doerhub.com/for/surgery-boards-
app](http://www.doerhub.com/for/surgery-boards-app)

~~~
sogen
How does it work? Is it legally binding? How do teams work/organize
themselves?

I see very few projects fill any information or what/who they need.

------
michaelochurch
First, your search is different from what it would be in the corporate
theater. In the corporate world, you're either looking for mentors who are 5+
years ahead of you (i.e. better than you at what you want to do) or
subordinates to offload grunt work (sorry, I mean "delegate") to. With co-
founders, you're looking for complements, not people on the same track. It
might be hard to swallow your ego and look for someone with a radically
different skill set, especially given the non-meritocracy of business co-
founder value (which is 90% connections, 10% innate ability). But it's what
you need to do.

Rule 1: Code or Contacts. Hire (at the early stage) only if the person brings
something in either department that no one else can do. Most "business co-
founders" can't bring funding on an idea. You don't need them, if they can't.
Business co-founders are naturally going to end up with a lot of power and you
can't afford the slot for a guy who can't make it rain with minimal initial
effort (save your effort for building) on your part. You need a guy with the
contacts to solve the funding problem, so you can focus on building the
product.

Your _third_ co-founder ("the dragon has three heads") should be a crack
technologist. Someone even better than you, if you can find him, and not a
friend of the business co-founder. If you have _two_ business guys and one
technologist, you're not going to have a tech company and they (along with
investors) will be calling the shots. In general, you want someone who will
push back on technical matters where getting it right is more important than
personally winning but _always_ take your side on the political stuff, where
the reverse is true.

Once you've established this "initial three" (or 4, if the technical problem
merits it) you can hire more business people, but only for defined roles
(accounting, business development) and anyone who tries to turn one of your
initial team against the rest is fired immediately.

Don't hire a PM until you're at 30 people. "Product" people become necessary
when you're hiring second-string engineers. First-stringers PM their own work.

