
Petition to pardon Edward Snowden reaches 100,000 signatures - rory096
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snowden/Dp03vGYD?r
======
freyrs3
Expect a response pretty much like this:

[https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/response/why-we-cant-
commen...](https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/response/why-we-cant-comment-
bradley-manning)

~~~
austenallred
Yes, but honestly that's OK. It's a small step, but for the president to have
to come out and say, "I recognize that a significant number of the American
people support this man who is convicted of espionage, but..." is a pretty
novel thing.

~~~
melling
100,000 isn't a significant number of people. You are living in a HN echo
chamber. I'm not sure most Americans care.

I'd love to know exactly what the NSA is doing. There needs to be some sort of
oversight, of course, but they certainly have a job to do. I recently heard
former President Clinton talk about it and he was somewhat convincing that
there are certain restrictions.

At any rate, aren't we venturing into politics and opinions?

~~~
jedberg
> I'm not sure most Americans care.

And of those that do care, a majority feel that he committed treason and needs
to be brought to justice.

[http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/17/cnn-poll-
maj...](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/17/cnn-poll-majority-
give-snowden-thumbs-down/)

~~~
mpyne
That's one reason I feel Snowden has hurt his cause by digging in for so much.

Another leak or two ( _especially_ about China, who most Americans feel are
one step away from being the next U.S.S.R. _anyways_ ) and Obama, DNI,
Congress, and basically everyone will be able to smooth _the whole thing_ over
by painting it with the traitor brush.

I really think Snowden has tried to bite off more than he can chew. At first I
believed him that he wanted a debate about how the NSA was being used and how
dangerous it could be in the wrong hands. Now I think he really wants to gut
the whole thing entirely.

But Americans don't _want_ that, they want an agency whose job it is to
protect COMSEC, break others' COMSEC and especially to detect and root out
terror cells and other anti-U.S. crime before it reaches our shores. The more
Snowden aligns his goals with the destruction of the NSA and CIA the more I
think he will get people to turn on him completely.

Don't get me wrong; I want that utopia where no one commits crime, we don't
need money, everyone's interested are 100% aligned and we just explore the
galaxy as peaceful peoples. But if we ever achieve that it would be 1000 times
more remarkable than the Sistine Chapel. And you can bet your ass they
wouldn't have completed the Sistine Chapel had they torn down all that ugly
scaffolding ⅓rd of the way through.

~~~
cpleppert
What is hurting his cause is a) making this about him and continuing to talk
so we don't have to address the issues and b) releasing a lot of information
that doesn't have to do with domestic intelligence (china, g8 spying etc)
distracting people even more and turning the public against himc) refusing to
talk about what technical capabilities the NSA has and framing the
conversation, instead; we see releases of information (PRISM) that are
immediately followed by a rush to figure out the actual capabilities of the
program, this confuses the public and muddles the waters even more

Snowden should have released the slide and then explained exactly what is
wrong with the program. Instead, he did a document dump and followed that up
by giving a reveal all interview that shifts the focus from the NSA onto him
and his motivations. Snowden still hasn't addressed what he technically knows
about PRISM.

He also claimed in his interview he could get access to the presidents email.
If he thought that was a big issue he should have gone into detail about it
for reporters(the target list, how he could do it as a network administrator
etc.) and supported his charge. Instead, it is a one off statement in the
context of a long interview where he essentially lays out a political
reasoning for why he has done what he did. Snowden still hasn't addressed any
of the issues of concern about the NSA and the (lack of)oversight exercised
over the agency and its programs.

He had a perfect opportunity to put his concerns before the public and I feel
he blew it.

~~~
general_failure
Yeah that's one thing I don't from yet. Why he is not giving any technical
information about prism. I can only conclude he doesn't really know much about
it. Maybe he got hold off this one slide deck and jumped to conclusions.

------
bhauer
I feel fairly silly hawking my own site whenever subjects like this come up,
but here I go anyway. Feel free to tell me to shut up. :)

I just simultaneously believe quite strongly in the idea of pairing calls for
action with charitable donations. The donations make a clear and measurable
message of the idea's importance. Plus, even if nothing happens, the charities
benefit.

So in any event, to get to the fireworks factory already:

A plea to the US government to pardon Edward Snowden (donate to the EFF in
particular!) [1]

The idea: "More than a petition" [2]

[1] [http://btf.io/382](http://btf.io/382)

[2] [https://brianstaskforce.com/blog/more-than-a-
petition](https://brianstaskforce.com/blog/more-than-a-petition)

~~~
nadaviv
btf.io seems to be down, but
[http://brianstaskforce.com/382](http://brianstaskforce.com/382) works (which
I think is the same website?).

~~~
bhauer
It is! Thanks for the heads-up on my (relatively new) short URL domain. I'm
not certain why it didn't work for you, though. It seems to work from external
sources I've tested (e.g., Google translate).

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lignuist
Mr. Obama, stop the madness now! You once have been a civil rights activist
and you have been awarded with the Nobel Peace Prize. Doesn't it make you feel
uncomfortable, to have switched the camp in just a few years? There is nothing
wrong with becoming a nice guy again.

~~~
rantanplan
You really think that he's pulling the strings? That it's his call?

~~~
lignuist
> You really think that he's pulling the strings?

I have absolutely no idea. How could I, if everything is kept in secret?

What I can do, is asking Obama, if he likes what he is doing. If his daughters
like what he is doing. If he still believes in "change". If he wants to appear
in history books in a row with Bush jr., McCarthy and Soviet leaders. I don't
expect answers from Obama, but I can say, that I would not like it, if I were
him.

~~~
rantanplan
You said it all in your last sentence. You could not ever be him. You're a
normal human being. Presidents, regardless of country of origin, don't have
that prerequisite. Actually it's a bonus point if they don't have it.

The history books will find a way to portray him in a good light. As history
books have taught us.

~~~
nmcfarl
History books do not portray all leaders, even American leaders, in a
favorable light. A perusal of history books will come up with quite a number
of people portrayed very poorly indeed. A glaring example: Nixon.

~~~
rantanplan
When I talk about history, I don't mean about 50-60 years back. If 20-30(or
more) years from now a new kind of government emerges and thinks for some
reason, that Nixon being a hero serves its purpose, then he will become a
hero.

This is being done for thousands of years. Actually it's one of the first
things you learn in history class.

------
Xanza
People sometimes forget that although espionage is indeed a crime, Snowden did
not release these classified documents to an enemy of the state, but rather
the American People. Our founding father, Benjamin Franklin also committed the
act of espionage in 1772 when he exposed and printed letters from Thomas
Hutchinson, the royal governor of Massachusetts, detailing information about
the revocation of civil liberties of the resistive American colonists. This
act alone is one of the major linchpins that broke into the signing of the
Declaration of Independence and the revolutionary War.

Without American heros such as Snowden and Ben Franklin, this country would
not exist.

~~~
jivatmanx
Most of his works were written anonymously using a fairly ridiculous number of
different Pseudonyms including Silence Dogood, Poor Richard, ect. What did he
have to hide? Might as well have been a terrorist.

~~~
Xanza
Pseudonyms !== Terrorist

If that was the case than any single person who uses a proxy, VPN, or Tor
might as well be a terrorist; you're attempting to browse the web with a
pseudonym. The REASON that they were used is because the use of assassins back
then was pretty common, especially by the Empire.

------
nsns
Can't we simply utter "pardon Snowden" into our Skype or cellphone knowing
it's being recorded?

~~~
mpyne
Sure, but theoretically no one would hear you anyways unless they got a
warrant. ;)

~~~
nsns
At least it will be stored for posterity.

~~~
mpyne
Well that is the worst death, isn't it? No one ever even knows what you had
said or thought once you pass away, you're just a bunch of cremains in the
sea...

------
aashaykumar92
When someone stands up for so many people, this is the expected outcome.
Unfortunately, it's doubtful that the government will take much of this into
account given how badly they were exposed--they will more than likely make an
example out of Snowden in such a way that no one is encouraged to do something
like this again.

~~~
noselasd
On the other hand, it's barly 0.03% of the popluation - which I'm sure many
policy makers will call 'irrelevant'

~~~
coldtea
Really? Then why did the Whitehouse itself considered 25,000 people relevant
enough to set them as the limit for petitions?

And then QUADRUPLED it to the current 100,000?

Also, it's not "0.03% of the population" that agree with this. Only the ones
that (a) know about the petition and (b) took time to sign it.

------
ekianjo
Now we undestand what "yes we can" was supposed to mean. Yes. we can do what
we want without giving a f### about what people think.

------
mtgx
At least the petition is another signal that the public is against what the
administration is doing on this one.

~~~
joe_hoyle
The petition is not evidence of the public being against what the
administration is doing, as it only represents the people who want Edward
Snowden pardoned, not the "opposite" view, if such a view exists.

~~~
kdkdkdkdkdkdk
Go ahead and create another petition that asks for Edward Snowden not to be
pardoned and to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and I bet that it
hardly gets any signatures.

Edit: This is a response to several of the replies. I'm assuming of course
that nobody within the government would game the petition system. If we've
gotten to the point were they would impersonate people in a petition to the
white house then I guess we are pretty much doomed.

~~~
SCAQTony
The NSA, CIA and FBI would game that petition. I think the phrase is
"Manufactured Consent."

~~~
XorNot
And people who've already written their own narrative wouldn't care if it was
real.

------
gamegoblin
Is there any evidence to support that these petitions have done anything that
wouldn't have already been done? They seem like a red herring.

~~~
danielharan
Proving that existing institutions and strategies are failing is a big part of
what activists have to do at the beginning of a movement.

So the questions I'd ask about whether petitions work are: -will they work to
get government to reconsider policies? -will they reveal government's
unwillingness to act?

Either way, that's a victory in my books.

~~~
Blahah
Surely the unwillingness of government to act is already evident? The
petitions seem to provide an illusion of democratic consultation.

~~~
jccc
That remained my opinion just a moment ago. But reading though the thread now
I wonder if at least some significant number of the signers might become more
invested in the issue than they were before. Not to mention others who read
about the petition reaching this threshold.

One major objective of activism is to inspire more activists.

------
j546
Do you really think getting 100K signatures is going to make a difference?

~~~
pgrote
I don't think so, but it reached the threshold requiring a response from the
White House.

~~~
LoganCale
The Aaron Swartz petition has never even gotten a non-response response.

~~~
knowaveragejoe
To be fair, that's quite typical of the petitions.

------
drawkbox
Ok Obama, time for some of that Change.

~~~
contingencies
I believe he progressed to a completely new level of nonspeak recently: _I 'm
not against change_.

(Compare during the election - _Change!_ , and before the election: _When I am
president, there will be no more illegal wiretapping of American citizens. No
more national security letters to spy on citizens who are not suspected of a
crime. No more tracking citizens who do nothing more than protest a misguided
war._ \- Senator Obama, December 24, 2007)

~~~
drawkbox
Agreed. He is not running for re-election anymore. He should start thinking
about his legacy now. And fix this executive branch overreach now, the same
one he was concerned about before he was in. If a constitutional lawyer and
one who goes in promising this change won't, then we have lost all hope.

------
snitko
This petition would only be effective at all if this 100k people announced
they started using Bitcoin for at least saving money. This is when they shit
bricks.

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pvnick
Next up, 200k [1]

[1] [http://i.imgur.com/NNfWqFW.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/NNfWqFW.jpg)

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fixxer
I wish someone would compile a list of all petitions which have reached
critical mass and map the administration's responses. Would love to see
exactly how "effective" this little charade has been since inception.

------
almostflan
This petition is missing Snowden's point. It's not about him, it's about the
documents he released.

A better petition would ask the government to elaborate on the documents
released.

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sudo_robin
Ahh.. alright a hundred thousand more people to be targeted..

~~~
kdkdkdkdkdkdk
Which is not a bad thing. We increase it to a couple of million and it might
as well be noise.

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matthuggins
On an unrelated note, does anyone know how to update their info on
petitions.whitehouse.gov? My displayed city is three years old on there.

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skylan_q
Great! 100,000 signatures! This will surely lead to something!

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cuil
So what exactly happens now ?

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jordiae
Pardon? Award!!!

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notdrunkatall
It'll be interesting to watch the Administration entirely ignore this
petition.

Kidding, it won't be interesting at all.

~~~
bmelton
They won't ignore it, they'll just respond with a total non-answer.

~~~
notdrunkatall
Which is essentially the same thing.

~~~
tripzilch
but marginally more interesting.

