
US accused of ‘piracy’ over mask ‘confiscation’ - etiam
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-52161995
======
agustif
Turkey just did a similar thing to Spain with 150 ventilators.

source: [https://elpais.com/sociedad/2020-04-03/turquia-retiene-un-
ca...](https://elpais.com/sociedad/2020-04-03/turquia-retiene-un-cargamento-
de-respiradores-para-espana.html)

~~~
agustif
I can't edit my parent post, but Turkey thankfully did let the respirators
pass through customs today. Even if they were build in turkey by a turkish
company, the sell to Spain was before Turkey implemented the no-medical-
export-ban so after some diplomacy calls they let it through I guess
(hopefully we can send them back to others in need when they need it)

------
wegs
This story is a little bit one-sided. If you read right-wing media, you'll get
stories one-sided in the other direction.

States in the US had placed orders for masks, in some cases more than a month
ago, and have not received them even after having paid for them. They were
getting outbid after having a contract in place, and companies (including 3M
distributors) weren't honoring orders after higher-grossing orders came in.
Florida-bound masks were being diverted to other countries.

A whole bunch of countries had already stopped exports of medical equipment.
The US was getting outbid on exports AND couldn't import, so was getting
stripped of medical equipment. This was a response.

Was it a thoughtful, reasoned, reasonable response? No. But some sort of rapid
response was needed since there was a flood of equipment out of the US.

There are also many disappearing orders in different ports, where shipments
apparently just vanish in a poof of smoke. It's not clear who is to blame (but
usually everyone assumes it is the US, with no clear evidence).

I'm not sure where this is going, but we're seeing escalation on many
different sides. We want a deescalation. I'm not sure how to get to there from
here. Without deescalation, these are the sorts of things which tend to
escalate to war.

------
etiam
Reposted, as
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22776775](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22776775)
by
[https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=madaxe_again](https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=madaxe_again)
appears to have been killed over a mistaken URL.

------
ansn
European governments should respond in kind. The United States must not be
allowed to get away with such domineering tactics.

~~~
makomk
Germany was one of the first countries to ban mask exports to the rest of the
world, including to other European countries like Italy during the depths of
their coronavirus crisis when the healthcare system there was collapsing. They
were eventually strong-armed into sharing their masks within the EU, but even
that took a long time to convince them to do. This was particularly bad
because they're one of the main manufacturers of N95 masks in Europe. In a
sense, this is an example of the US responding in kind to something that
Europe has already done.

~~~
wcoenen
For what it's worth, Germany is currently taking patients from Italy[1] and
sending ventilators to Spain[2] to help them out. I think it just took some
time to go from "scrambling to prepare" to cooperation between EU countries.

[1] [https://dw.com/en/coronavirus-treating-european-patients-
in-...](https://dw.com/en/coronavirus-treating-european-patients-in-
germany/a-52943695)

[2] [https://www.efe.com/efe/english/portada/berlin-sends-
ventila...](https://www.efe.com/efe/english/portada/berlin-sends-ventilators-
to-spain-taking-in-patients-from-italy-france/50000260-4212884#)

~~~
mercer
It remains to be seen whether such gestures are just PR though.

~~~
Pedrit0
I think that the French and Italian patients being taken in charge by the
German hospital won't give a f __* that it is PR or not. They just want to
survive and they sure will remember the german hand. Europe is a land of
memory. We will not forget either the US actions.

------
Pedrit0
A more complete article on this topic:
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/03/mask-wars-
coro...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/03/mask-wars-coronavirus-
outbidding-demand)

~~~
justin66
Still not terribly clear what happened. A journalist would want to talk to the
shipper or the buyer of the masks, since 3M is disavowing any knowledge, and
the German police just know they did not get their masks.

One thing is interesting: maybe 3M really don't know everything their
suppliers are doing right now in China.

 _About 200,000 N95 masks were diverted to the US as they were being
transferred between planes in Thailand, according to the Berlin authorities
who said they had ordered the masks for the police force._

~~~
Pedrit0
France, Germany, Canada, and even US states/counties had to complain about
this "dumping" from the federal US administration and also from american
private buyers. The topic is getting inflamatory in Europe.

------
aaron695
France did this to the UK

[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8137039/French-
bord...](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8137039/French-border-
guards-impound-trucks-filled-130-000-face-masks-bound-Britain.html)

USA did this to France -

US buyers waving wads of cash managed to wrest control of a consignment of
masks as it was about to be dispatched from China to one of the worst-hit
coronavirus areas of France, according to two French officials.

The masks were on a plane at Shanghai airport that was ready to take off when
the US buyers turned up and offered three times what their French counterparts
were paying.

[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/02/global-
battle-...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/02/global-battle-
coronavirus-equipment-masks-tests)

Lots of stories in the new wild west over bits of paper that should cost
nothing.

~~~
Pedrit0
Except the French story is pure fake as the masks were all delivered to UK. As
Macron passed the law on the ban for mask export, the cops had to block the
truck. Then UK and France administrations called each other and the truck was
released almost immediatly. Non-story. Daily Mail.

------
Pedrit0
LOL. I have seen 3 or 4 news about that in HN these last days and I personally
submitted 2 more on this topic. Believe it or not, these news did not prompt
many reactions from US HN commenters who usually have much to say on any topic
:-)

~~~
yardie
It’s 8AM EDT. Most HNers aren’t even up this early.

Also, with the president’s multiple lies per day the media is barely covering
it.

------
KozmoNau7
Old alliances are fragile and will be broken in times of desperation. To throw
your allies under the bus like this will not be forgotten.

I hope that one consequence of these and similar action during this crisis
will be an end to the global JIT production strategy and spur more
decentralized and local production.

Why are we in Europe dependent on a US company with production in the far
east, for critical medical supplies?

~~~
makomk
Like every country on the planet, you need far more N95 masks than usual right
now, and there is literally not enough manufacturing capacity on the entire
planet. Europe and especially Germany banned exports and blocked shipping of
existing orders a while back, but because the US hadn't done so yet you could
get away with siphoning off the US supply whilst banning them from doing the
same to you.

~~~
KozmoNau7
Instead of making this another US vs Europe "we did/but they did" slapfight,
try reading my post again.

EU countries instituted _export regulations from their own countries_ , they
didn't ban exports, they wanted to at least regulate how much left the
country.

The US intercepted _already agreed upon shipments_ , by swooping in and
offering a much higher payment and strong-arming companies like 3M. The blame
lies both with the US government and the manufacturers ignoring existing deals
and agreements in favor of cold profit. And the US government also deserves
blame for not recognizing the threat earlier, which they are now using as an
excuse to screw over the rest of the world. Again.

Another important point is that companies like 3M are US based, adding yet
another imbalance of power in this relationship.

However, my main point is why do we accept this fragile global JIT supply
chain? We are we relying on essential products having to be shipped across the
globe?

------
hatenberg
He is handling the problem created by his lack of preparation like he handles
his pornstar problems. With money and bullying.

Nevermind that end of February the government still sold off particle
respirators and masks to the highest bidder.

The only good news here is that after this is over many other western
countries will finally get over the idea that the US is their friend and take
a much needed pragmatic approach - especially when it comes to the sourcing of
telco equipment.

~~~
danielrpa
The current administration speaks for the country right now, but doesn't set
an eternal policy that determines the United States' thinking towards its
partners or erases the decades of strong alliances from the past.

Actually this is the beauty of democracy, eventually we will change this -
many of us Americans aren't happy with the way our country is treating our
historical friends in Europe and elsewhere. It's important that democracies
stay united through this crisis, and especially after this crisis.

There is nothing China and Russia would like more than long term friction in
the Free World alliances.

~~~
jaynetics
I wouldn't bet against Trumps re-election, with his approval ratings going up
in the middle of his biggest bungle.

Even if Biden is elected, I have limited hope for him to join us in tackling
major issues such as global warming.

I also wouldn't bet on a resurgence of the "decent" GOP in the next decades,
i.e. a party that "only" starts some baseless wars and doesn't promote
antagonistic thinking in general. They will have noted very clearly what
brought them their recent success.

I'm sorry to say, but as a German, I'm seriously wondering whether there is a
better chance of establishing a reasonable dialogue with China than to stop
you guys from messing stuff up.

~~~
Carpetsmoker
> I'm seriously wondering whether there is a better chance of establishing a
> reasonable dialogue with China than to stop you guys from messing stuff up.

IMHO China is much much worse, ranging from censorship (often over very small
issues, like comparing Xi Jinping to Winnie the Pooh resulting in _all_ of
Winnie the Pooh being blacklisted), to the massive invasive surveillance state
they've got and are expanding, to things like the concentration camps in
Xinjiang.

For all the faults in the current US political landscape, it is still vastly
better than China.

~~~
hatenberg
China and the US have a lot in common. Frankly watching the daily deluge of
lies from the Trump administration's highest levels - the accusation that
China may not be entirely truthful are hilarious

~~~
Carpetsmoker
I agree there are certain similarities and problems in the US. But mass-
censorship, concentration camps, and a true surveillance state on the level of
China don't exist in the US. Some, like an expansion of the surveillance
state, are plausible (maybe even likely?) in the near-future, whereas I don't
see mass-censorship, concentration camps, or appointing the president for life
happening any time soon.

------
Carpetsmoker
Considering that Trump wants to keep manufacturing in the US (big issue during
the campaign, no comment on whether this is a good or bad policy), this seems
rather unwise in the long run. Basically he's showing that the US is an
unreliable partner. I know these are exceptional circumstances, but there may
be other exceptional circumstances in a few years time. I would think twice
before establishing my manufacturing plants in the US.

~~~
funcDropShadow
He is constantly showing Europe that the US is an unreliable partner. I
believe after the acute phase of the Corona crisis, US European will have
changed forever. Russia and China are sending supplies and medical teams not
only to their allies but also to lot's of African and European countries.
Whereas the US does the exact opposite. Who do you think will have more
influence on the world in the coming years?

------
econcon
Trumph is proving to be strong leader. It's weird.

~~~
dicknuckle
Strength through underhanded tactics is not strength. He's covering up his
incompetence.

------
m0zg
Desperate times, desperate measures. Had Trump not done this, the press would
pan him for "not using the DPA" instead, like they did last week.

~~~
hurricanetc
If he had actually used the DPA last week this wouldn’t have happened. This
shipment had already left the US and was in Bangkok.

And if he had used the DPA in January we wouldn’t be in this situation in the
first place.

~~~
m0zg
What would he do that for? If you recall, in January _zero_ people other than
the president gave any shit about the virus. We didn't have any cases until
something like January 19. 3 days later they formed the working group, and on
Jan 31 they closed flights with China (Biden and liberal media called the move
"racist"). To remind you at the time everyone was busy with third attempt at
"investigation" and impeachment. Invoking DPA would be a bit "interesting"
under those circumstances, and the dems would howl that he's "authoritarian",
just like they are beginning to howl about it now, when there's end in sight
for this. Do I need to show you the headlines and clips from end of January to
lengthen your attention span? Pelosi handing out pens and inviting people to
Chinatown? DeBlasio telling people to ignore coronavirus? Every single liberal
media outlet saying Trump is overreacting and this is no worse than a flu?

