
Start-up NY - lelf
http://startup.ny.gov/
======
thekevan
Read the fine print. Not only are there the below requirements but there is
also debate on whether or not the agency running the program has the ability
(due to poorly worded rules) to kick a business out of it for no reason at
all.

A Start up...

Start ups must locate on college campuses. (Renting unused office space or
vacant land.)

MUST BE NEW to New York State, recently graduated from a state-recognized
incubator, be returning to the state, or be an existing business that's
starting a new operation.

ORGANIZED as a corporation, partnership, limited liability company or sole
proprietorship.

IN COMPLIANCE with worker protection and environmental regulations

ALIGNED with the interests of the hosting university.

BE ABLE to create jobs in the first year.

BE A STARTUP business or in biotechnology, information technology,
remanufacturing, advanced materials, processing, engineering, electronic
technology products or other high-tech industries.

CANNOT BE AN accountant, business services company, law firm, medical office,
hotel, financial services firm, personal care business, Realtor, restaurant,
retailer, utility or wholesaler.

~~~
jeffmould
Agree. It sounds wonderful on the outside, but once you start reading all the
details it gets a little hairy. For example, they do not define what exactly a
"business services company" is and is not. Using a broad definition, that
could eliminate some tech startups right out the gate. Another example of the
broad definition is "financial services firm". Does that immediately eliminate
BitCoin or payment processing startups? The list goes on.

I like the idea and more states/cities should follow the lead, but in order to
be effective the people implementing these programs need to be clear on what
is and is not an acceptable business. The other part of the NY program I was
hesitant about was that you are committed to partnering with a university.
Doesn't leave room if your business plan pivots and falls out of line with the
"interests of the hosting university".

~~~
mathattack
Strange. I wonder if it's politics. There's a great idea for pushing tech, but
then the anti-banking lobby kicks in, as does everyone else that's anti-
business.

Unclear if this got watered down while Bloomberg was in town, or if it's part
of Deblassio's class warfare.

~~~
paddy_m
This was started during Bloomberg's term. The same provisions were there.

~~~
epc
This is a New York State program, Bloomberg was mayor of New York City.

~~~
mathattack
Was it this watered down when the program began? If so, I start to wonder,
"Why bother?"

I get the objections... You don't want to incent people who are already here.
It still seems like a lot of hoops.

~~~
epc
This is the first year (roughly) of the program. They (NY State) announced it
last year. Many of us in NYC looked at it and were like: "ok, well, no use to
us". The thing with NY State programs is that they're almost entirely geared
to helping politicians north of I-84. While the NYC region has the bulk of the
population, it doesn't control the legislature (so when people complain about
NYC's taxes, keep in mind that the state controls the tax structure, NYC has
minimal control over revenue).

NYC's programs for startup businesses (digital and otherwise) have been more
oriented to eliminating red tape, some real estate help. Lately there's an
extremely underhyped effort to get fiber to offices, but the requirements are
such that you'd need to be well along in your business to take advantage of
it.

------
king_magic
As a Syracuse, NY native and a current resident of NYC, I hereby welcome a
flood of new business to the state. Come one, come all.

Just pay no attention to the fact that you're taxed to oblivion in every other
possible way - state income tax, sales tax, property taxes, NYC residential
tax - I think we've even got taxes for your taxes somewhere in the back -
hopefully by the time you finish your 10th year as a successful, profitable,
un-taxed business, you'll be making so much gosh darn money that you won't
even notice your business finally being taxed into oblivion too.

Dreams really do come true.

~~~
damon_c
I recently heard that The Beatles paid a 95% income tax.

That seems pretty crazy to us today, but maybe back then they would wonder how
we could have the < 40% taxes we have now and properly maintain the roads and
bridges and various societal institutions.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxman](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxman)

~~~
ruggeri
"One for you nineteen for me"

------
gaadd33
I had filled out their form and asked to be contacted about 6 months ago and
haven't heard anything back. Talking to some accelerator people, it seems to
be pretty common. Even using their network the accelerator was unable to get
useful information about how to use this program. I think while it makes great
headlines it might be 3-4 years till they figure out the policies and
requirements around this.

~~~
mathattack
If it takes 3-4 years, I don't see it happening at all. It requires a mayor to
make it a priority.

~~~
judk
It is a state program.

------
sheetjs
Previous discussion:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6930718](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6930718)

Previous submissions:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6923744](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6923744)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6595355](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6595355)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5915189](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5915189)

------
sudonim
Ok, so you want to take advantage of this in NYC?

[http://startup.ny.gov/properties/new-york-city-
properties/](http://startup.ny.gov/properties/new-york-city-properties/)

There are a 3 results, all biotech / science in nature. Click on one of em:

THIS PROPERTY HAS NOT YET BEEN DESIGNATED AS A TAX-FREE NY AREA

That's probably a deal-killer for startups wanting to move to manhattan and be
tax free for 10 years.

~~~
bsifyskr
Because the program is designed for upstate NY, whose economy consists of Rust
Belt remnants, college towns, and Greek yogurt.

~~~
_delirium
Pretty sure that's "Greek-style yogurt", unless Greece has has annexed Albany!

~~~
thekevan
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece_%28town%29,_New_York](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece_%28town%29,_New_York)

------
joelgrus
"Eligible businesses must not locate in an area in which they would compete
with existing local businesses."

------
akbar501
Tax free zones have proven to be highly effective. In Dubai there were a
number of tax free zones started 13+ years ago just before their economic
boom. India's rise to dominance in several service sectors was accompanied by
a number of tax incentives.

I'd bet money that this attracts new business to New York especially since New
York has people talent in place. Also, if you're competing against a NY firm,
they'll have an advantage in their ability to accumulate earnings at a faster
rate than an equivalent firm that's burdened with more taxes. Too bad NY can't
wave Federal taxes...that would be nice.

~~~
sleepyhead
Dubai has tax-free zones but also put a bunch of money into certain
industries.

Also given the way you talk about taxes it doesn't seem you understand what
taxes pay for. Like the roads that startups need to drive on.

~~~
hueving
>Also given the way you talk about taxes it doesn't seem you understand what
taxes pay for.

I would say the same to you. Roads are usually paid for by vehicle
registration fees, gas taxes, etc. Pick a better example.

~~~
paddy_m
Gas Taxes are increasingly having trouble paying for roads. I think roads are
normally paid for by property taxes.

------
brianbreslin
Are there any other states doing this? Or municipalities?

In Panama (the country), they do something like this in an area on the former
US military base called "Ciudad del Saber" (City of knowledge)[1], whereby the
companies based their get 0 taxation on imports/exports, salaries, and some
other stuff.

Could this be accomplished by designating areas free trade zones? Here in
Miami there are a few free trade zones, but I'm not super clear on their
function (mostly see cargo coming in and out of there).

[1][http://ciudaddelsaber.org/en](http://ciudaddelsaber.org/en)

------
joelrunyon
I've been seeing ads for this on tv here in southern California. Seems really
intriguing.

I'm curious if there are any long-term commitments? Can you redomicile 9 1/2
years in, etc?

------
pak
I found it funny that their current ad, "Don't Back Down",

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuXBcbYvKU8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuXBcbYvKU8)

uses an animation at 0:08 clearly from the STAR experiment at Brookhaven
National Laboratory
[http://www.bnl.gov/rhic/star.asp](http://www.bnl.gov/rhic/star.asp) which is
run by Department of Energy (federal) funding and has nothing at all to do
with startup technology, or New York taxes for that matter. The facility does
happen to be located on Long Island.

A high-energy nuclear physics experiment focused around a mile-wide particle
accelerator is so opposite to what startups aim to accomplish (minimum viable
products, small teams, bootstrapping, becoming profitable fast) that the
reference is nothing but humorous to me.

Perhaps the implication is that there are very smart scientists in the NY area
that one can poach off to work at startups as federal funding for high energy
physics research declines. :-(

------
thrush
NY has recently taken up arms to make itself a more attractive destination for
businesses and entrepreneurs. One of the largest strides that has been made
aligns with this link, and is a marketing strategy that makes NY seem more
startup friendly. It's unclear whether it's being targeted towards
tech/software, which recently has become synonymous with the word "startup",
or how much substance there is behind the cloak of marketing.

An interesting and relevant read is Paul Graham's essay on recreating Silicon
Valley:
[http://www.paulgraham.com/siliconvalley.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/siliconvalley.html)

------
pacifi30
Well fine print aside sure they have lot of hidden clauses but it's a good
start I would say. Nice to have Washington State also adopt something like
this since now Seattle has a growing Startup community

~~~
judk
WA waives income tax for startups!

------
epc
Note that this program, by design, almost completely excludes New York City
(all five boroughs) and much of Long Island. It's geared primarily to upstate.

------
antonius
Pay no taxes for 10 years as a start-up in NY? Sign me up.

------
vinceguidry
Just looking at the language of the website, I can see who this initiative is
catering to: Large organizations looking to cash in on startup cachet and gain
a significant competitive advantage over real startups.

Because it looks like those are the only ones that can fulfill the
requirements.

Crossing NYC off of my list of places to move to when I'm ready to start a
company.

------
troymc
There are no taxes for businesses that start up on the moon, so why don't more
businesses start up on the moon?

------
drawkbox
Every city should do this now, tax free for years (at least 3 but 10 is
awesome). No other requirements because there are many other ways to generate
revenue from young companies and you want them to succeed, i.e. Free-to-Play
business model somewhat.

------
shakeel_mohamed
I got really excited for a moment, then I read the fine print. But, I think is
generally a step in the right direction.

How terrible would it be to collect no taxes from startups for the first year,
nationally?

~~~
srlake
Most startups aren't paying significant taxes in the first year, anyways,
since there will be no profits.

~~~
shakeel_mohamed
Correct, and a startup with low profits might benefit in tax exemption early
on for long-term success (and potentially avoiding fundraising early on).

------
circa
They show commercials for this all the time all over NY state. Its incredibly
misleading. I looked into it the first time I saw it. Like most things it is
indeed to good to be true.

------
appreneur
I am international..especially from india,can I open my startup in ny?, Cant
seem to find that for international business owners want to start in newyork.
I am an appreneur, we develop mobile apps,would love to open startup in
newyork tax free zone. Can I get process for non-us citizen to open startup in
new york.

------
donbronson
Seems like a great way to widen the size of the city. Startups in the Bronx!

~~~
epc
New York State. Not New York City. The program is designed almost entirely to
exclude New York City.

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superduper33
To those who warn of the fine print -- what did you expect? Even with those
conditions, this looks pretty damn advantageous. Go NY.

-SF Startup Scene Employee

