
Windows Signature Experience: it's just windows sans the crapware - samiq
http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/windowsexperience/archive/2010/10/01/inside-the-microsoft-signature-lab.aspx
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pilif
Did I understand this correctly? When you buy any PC with crapware on it at
$discounter, you can go to that Microsoft store, _buy another, possibly non-
upgrade, license of Windows_ and they install that?

So in turn, MS gets to sell two licenses (the oem and the end-user one), the
crapware vendor gets paid for installing the crapware and the consumer gets a
clean windows installation for more than twice the price. Awesome deal. Yes.

I know why I stopped using Windows machines

Edit: also, it's debatable whether Acrobat Reader doesn't also qualify as
crapware, when you consider it's recent security history and the fact that
there are alternatives around (which, unfortunately, isn't true for flash
player)

~~~
borisk
You can get a refund for an unused OEM licence.

~~~
acqq
Still absurd. The steps apparently:

1) Buy the computer which includes the price of the OEM license (and with the
version which also doesn't ask you for the license key)

2) Try to get the money back for the OEM license (edit: AFAIK you can do this
only if you never try to use the computer until that point).

3) Carry the computer to the Windows Store

4) Buy there the more expensive license, with which you have to type in the
license key whenever you do a reinstall (well, of course, why not paying more
to have it harder to use).

5) Let the MS store guys "apply the Signature configuration to it."

6) Whenever you want to reinstall your dearly paid Windows (in money and the
time spent), go to step 3) (carrying your whole computer!) convince the guys
there you did the step 4) and that you don't want to do it again to make them
do the step 5)

And they actually have the nerve to write: "Microsoft Signature Upgrade: It’s
a great way to make your PC experience even better."

Brought to you by the company that gave you Windows Vista.

~~~
borisk
Normally you'd just buy the PC at Microsoft Store. You probably don't have to
to go back for reinstall, there will be a restore DVD or partition.

~~~
acqq
We are talking here about the "Microsoft Signature Upgrade" -- not the
"Microsoft Signature on any PC purchased from the Microsoft Store." Check the
main article again.

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snprbob86
I must admit, this is pretty shitty. However, as a former Microsoftie, it
makes a sense to me.

Allow me to explain: YOU ARE NOT MICROSOFT'S CUSTOMER. OEMs are. Enterprises
are. This is a serious financial advantage for Microsoft.

That said... YOU ARE APPLE'S CUSTOMER. And this is a serious competitive
disadvantage for Microsoft.

That said... MICROSOFT WANTS TO BE IN THE CONSUMER MARKET. They have to be to
compete with Apple long term.

So the way I see this is that Microsoft is opening their own retail stores and
they are going to essentially be yet another OEM. They are going to compete
with the likes of Dell on merit of quality. This "signature team" is the team
responsible for setting that quality bar.

In true Microsoft fashion, "Windows Signature" is an internal name that is
leaking externally. In this case, it appears to be intentionally. It seems
like an odd choice because no one talks about "Windows Dell", why should
Microsoft have a name for this? It's just plain silly, but I digress.

Since Microsoft doesn't need to pay for Windows licenses, they will have
higher margins and will be able to muscle around the OEMs who depend on
crapware for profits. If Microsoft simply started forcing rules down the
throats of OEMs, the OEMs would retaliate by distributing Linux more widely,
so it is wise for Microsoft to push a caliber of desktop experience that Linux
can't quite deliver yet for the average user.

tldr: This is Microsoft changing OEM behavior passive aggressively.

~~~
derefr
> It seems like an odd choice because no one talks about "Windows Dell", why
> should Microsoft have a name for this?

I think that's the point—they're making the market think about a point of
differentiation that they weren't before, and so they want to give it a name.
"If you buy your PC at [random shop], will you still be getting the Windows
Signature Experience?"

~~~
snprbob86
I can see that reasoning, but I probably frame it as "If you buy directly from
us, we're give you the Microsoft Bonus Stuff Pack which is much better than
the Dell Crapware Pack".

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mhw
"If you live near a store, you can bring in any Windows 7 compatible PC and
the Store techs will do a clean install of Windows 7 (you’ll need to buy a
full retail copy, of course), migrate all of your data, and then apply the
Signature configuration to it (i.e., set it up almost exactly like a Microsoft
Store-bought PC). It’s a great way to make your PC experience even better."

Of course! It makes perfect sense that I'd need to pay for Windows twice, once
for each time it's been installed. How reasonable of you, Microsoft.
Obviously, the crap that got pre-installed on my first copy of Windows was
stuff I actually asked for, and not an inevitable result of _your_ business
model.

~~~
megablast
It is funny, Microsoft people are quite willing to chat on the net about all
the great stuff they are doing, but as soon as someone points out something
incredibly stupid that they are doing, they all disappear.

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Elepsis
Apparently gratuitous editorial spin in the titles is okay as long as it has
to do with Microsoft?

In any case, people are focusing on a minor detail rather than the interesting
piece of this: The point is, when you buy from the Microsoft Store, you can
get that's set up to have a "best-effort" configuration of Windows--one where
the choices of what to install and what not install are made from the
perspective of making the customer experience great, not based on who paid the
most money.

If you want the same thing done to a PC purchased elsewhere, perhaps you have
to buy a copy of Windows (I work for MS but I have no idea whether that is the
case or not). On the other hand, all of this setup/optimization is free, so
it's quite likely cheaper to pay for Windows a second time than to pay, say,
Geek Squad for their questionable "PC optimization service."

If the store just said "come in and get your PC optimized for $99" I'm sure no
one would have an issue with it.

~~~
samiq
point is microsoft is supposed to be doing a certification process already
which as far as I remember was to certify that the experience was guarantee...
so base on this news, that certification sticker is just full of crap and now
I need a geek squad or microsoft itself to tune it up to be the best
experience.

seriously, if microsoft did their quality process the way it should be there
should not be a need for "pc optimization services" or this such "signature
experience" of any kind.

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wmf
Wow, Microsoft is telling people who _already have Windows_ to buy a _full
retail copy of Windows 7_ just to get rid of crapware?

Maybe there's money to be made by rebranding CyanogenMod as "Android
Signature" (now in vanilla froyo flavor)...

~~~
mikeknoop
"If you live near a store, you can bring in any Windows 7 compatible PC and
the Store techs will do a clean install of Windows 7 (you’ll need to buy a
full retail copy, of course), migrate all of your data,"

This reads to me like you can either upgrade to Windows 7 or they will
reinstall a clean image with your current license key...

~~~
franksalim
Your current license key is usually for an OEM version and not a "full retail
copy." I understand this as meaning you will have to purchase Windows 7 again
if it came pre-installed on your PC.

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samiq
paying microsoft extra for the experience I'd have got from the beginning is
shocking... microsoft should focus more on getting OEMs stop this crapware
fair and instead provide a great experience for their end users.

anyway, this a response from someone at Microsoft from a twitter conversation
that started from this same link:

@xpaulbettsx: @timheuer @shanselman @samiq we are working to do this via perf
requirements - slow down the OS, get penalized

<http://twitter.com/#!/xpaulbettsx/status/26334503491>

~~~
vdm
Microsoft have created a situation where OEMs margin is coming from that
crapware. The incentives are way off and the end user is the big loser.

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Raphael_Amiard
I don't need anybody to install me Internet Explorer 8 and Adobe Acrobat,
especially when i'm gonna install Chrome and Sumatra instead. But other people
posting here are right: You shouldn't be paying for that kind of stuff. It
should be basic service.

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hendler
Didn't quite understand Signature Experience (and I didn't want to install
silverlight). Does anyone here use it?

Completely off topic and half-joking; but was it a joke to call it "window-
steam-blog" or should I only see "windows-team-blog"?

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huhtenberg
Silverlight video, huh? I think this calls for a poll -
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1754755>

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AHylianHuman
If you live near a store, you can bring in any Windows 7 compatible PC and the
Store techs will do a clean install of Windows 7 (NOTE: If your PC already has
WIndows 7 on it, you're good to go - no new license is required!

Meaning, if you bought a Windows 7 computer somewhere else (with crapware,
etc.) you don't have to buy a new license--they just clean off the crapware
for you and install their stuff.

