
New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads - remotists
https://medium.com/macoclock/apple-is-killing-a-billion-dollar-ad-industry-with-one-popup-2f83d182837f
======
raxxorrax
Maybe the open source promise of Android was indeed a lie. To me this industry
has no value to society at all.

Not a fan of Apple, but they seem to be serious about privacy showing other
companies how it is done.

Microsoft could have really established itself as an alternative to Google on
the same front, but they utterly failed by mirroring the worst aspects of the
disastrous landscape we see on mobile devices. I hope their telemetry
generates billions too, since that is probably in the range of their missed
opportunities for both desktop and mobile devices.

Some still pretend that users want personalized ads and want to be tracked.
Yes, there are some that really do. Glad we get options for the other ones.

~~~
omnifischer
At the end of the day,

1\. Apple users are the ones that cannot browse without adblocker. Safari is
not as good as ublock-origin

2\. Most Apple users use google maps.

> Not a fan of Apple, but they seem to be serious about privacy

If they are honest then they can remove the default search engine from Google
to DDG or whatever. They get billions from Google for default search engine.

[https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/1/21310591/apple-google-
sear...](https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/1/21310591/apple-google-search-
engine-safari-iphone-deal-billions-regulation-antitrust)

BTW, Apple need to release a good search/maps product before complaining.

3\. Even the cheapest iPhone cannot be afforded by > 80 % world.

They do not care about >80 % world popln? They too need smartphones.

~~~
kohtatsu
iPhones have longevity.

The iPhone 5s from September 2013 has been receiving regular security updates,
the latest being iOS 12.4.8 on Wednesday.

It was the first 64-bit phone, and first iPhone (first phone?) with a Secure
Enclave.

They can be had for <$100 in good condition.

~~~
omnifischer
BTW, every one says this - but nobody uses it like a daily driver. Yes, it
will work as a spare - with just one app - like whatsapp - but for many poor -
they need 1\. Uber or Ola 2\. Facebook or WhatsApp 3\. linkedin to whatever
local app 4\. youtube

Why dont you try to use it for a week with all your existing apps?

If it works as good - why would anyone buy newer?

~~~
dunnevens
I'm still using a 6s Plus 128GB. I keep thinking about getting a new one, but
this one still works great. Haven't found a slow app yet. Everything is still
responsive. Screen is still scratch free. And it's going to get iOS 14 this
year. Even though it was relatively expensive when new, it's probably been one
of the best values in tech I've ever seen. And yeah, it's a daily driver. Use
it for everything.

------
deeblering4
This is a big reason why I continue to use apple devices.

They seem to be one of the few large tech companies that aligns themselves
with users rights to privacy.

Apple isn’t perfect. But they build very good privacy and security into their
products. And they structure their UI and defaults in such a way that the
average user benefits with no effort or specialized knowledge.

~~~
jchook
I definitely see some questionable privacy practices by Apple...

\- While "10x less", iPhone still sends your private information (such as
location) to Apple on a regular basis[1].

\- Apple encrypts iCloud backups with a key _they_ control, not end-to-end[2].
This means that Apple can decrypt and inspect your phone and computer backups.

\- According to the article, iOS developers can use their "new privacy-focused
ad framework" to "allow anonymously retrieving data without getting a hold of
the user or specific information". I don't fully understand that sentence but
it sounds a lot like Apple trying to compete directly with Goog + FB in the
advertising industry.

\- Hardware made in China[3].

1\. [https://digitalcontentnext.org/wp-
content/uploads/2018/08/DC...](https://digitalcontentnext.org/wp-
content/uploads/2018/08/DCN-Google-Data-Collection-Paper.pdf)

2\. [https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303](https://support.apple.com/en-
us/HT202303)

3\. [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-
big-h...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-
china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies)

~~~
s1k3s
Isn’t point 2 a consequence of the law that they have to follow? Don’t know
about rest of the world but I think in EU they are forced to disclose your
personal information to the government if asked to do so. This is also in
their privacy policy.

~~~
threeseed
I think this is definitely the case.

And as iCloud is a global service they really have to cater for the lowest
common denominator.

------
kin
I have a serious question. Obviously if one were to choose between an ad-free
experience and an ad-full experience, one would choose ad-free. But, if ads
were needed for monetization, wouldn't you choose personalized vs non-
personalized? Personally, I would go with personalized because a non-
personalized experienced usually has no relevancy and frankly it is
inefficient use of money in this world. From there, it really comes down to
companies invading your privacy, usually they make the wrong assumptions from
it. Why can't there be a way for me to tell the ad-world what I'm in the
market for and have them stop trying to snoop around and guess what I want?
Most may say that making a Google search is enough to tell ads what I want but
I think there are a ton of assumptions made there.

~~~
m12k
If personalized ads meant ads that were actually good recommendations for
products I could be interested in and would be grateful to be informed about
the existence of - maybe. The reality of it is that personalized ads are
mostly just ads from those with the money and demographics info to stalk me
around the internet - e.g. webshops running after me, believing that I
abandoned my shopping cart simply because I got distracted, not because I was
trying to figure out what the shipping cost would be and their site didn't
leave me any other options. Or sites trying to sell me another vacuum cleaner
weeks after I already bought one. The point I'm trying to make is that
personalized ads are very poor at actually recommending me anything I care
about. They're like semi-incompetent sales clerks in a physical store - I'd
really prefer to do my shopping without them breathing down my neck. So long
story short, personalized ads are just as useless to me as un-personalized
ads, only creepier, and I'd prefer not to be stalked.

~~~
Fernicia
Criticism like this essentially boil down to the adverts not being targeted
enough. Lumping you in the wrong group, not knowing enough about your
intentions, etc.

~~~
ubercow13
If targeted ads are no better, and maybe even worse, than untargeted ads, that
doesn't imply you need more targeting. Maybe it implies targeting doesn't work
(at least for the purpose of providing ads the user wants to see).

I prefer contextual ads, ie. related to what I'm currently looking at, not
what my ad profile thinks my personality is based on something unrelated I did
on another device last week.

~~~
mostlysimilar
> I prefer contextual ads, ie. related to what I'm currently looking at, not
> what my ad profile thinks my personality is based on something unrelated I
> did on another device last week.

That would be my preference for browsing the web, or looking at results of a
search. But what about the ads that rely on doom-scrolling? The ones that are
inserted every two posts on a Facebook feed would be hard to make contextual,
for example.

~~~
ubercow13
I don't mind some Instagram ads which are directly related to accounts I
follow. For example, follow some musicians on Instagram and get an advert for
some other artist's new album. I don't use Facebook but I guess it could work
similarly if you follow certain interest-related groups. However, I wouldn't
like if it was using my interactions with friends to target me.

Both of these are better that tracking your activity all over the web and
using that to target you.

------
Joe8Bit
In a previous life I worked in ad-tech, and I don't think it's as black and
white as the OP makes it out to be. I think that's actually a Bad Thing™️ as
this industry needs to profoundly change or die.

This isn't a new, unexpected thing for sell or demand side ad-tech platforms,
they've seen the death of IDFA coming for a few years. The reality is that
this will likely stop more 'above board' players (a good thing) but the gray
area and outright malicious, scummy ad and data companies will still attempt
to generate unique identifiers through things like native fingerprinting. I
think Apple will also stop them incerementally, but this sadly isn't an
outright victory.

I don't understand it myself, but people DO opt-in to personalised ads in
pretty decent numbers, it's anecdata, but I've seen data from very large
control trials (testing for exactly this scenario) where ~50% of users opt-in.
The devil is in the detail with these things: what will the copy be? will
alternatives be presented? how will users be able to link 'value' to what
they're being asked for?

~~~
ogre_codes
Tracking based advertising hasn't delivered on its promises. As a user, we're
seeing more advertising than ever, and it turns out that seeing advertising
for a thing which you shopped for and bought last week just isn't any better
than seeing advertising that relates to the article I'm reading at the time.
I'm also very skeptical that tracking based advertising actually works better
for publishes either. Since the number of companies with good tracking data is
so limited, the tracking companies (primarily Facebook & Google) have a near
monopoly on user data and use that to extract more money out of advertisers,
but the publishers see a decreasing fraction of that amount.

~~~
soared
>it turns out that seeing advertising for a thing which you shopped for and
bought last week just isn't any better than seeing advertising that relates to
the article I'm reading at the time.

This is due to (1) not having enough data to build good algorithms and (2)
advertising campaigns being set up poorly (its not only technically
challenging but also expensive). This issue can actually be fixed and likely
will in the future.

>I'm also very skeptical that tracking based advertising actually works better
for publishes either.

The majority of publishers make more money from personalized ads. NYT and
premium publishers don't necessarily since ads on NYT are valuable by itself,
but ads on my blog are worthless by themselves. Add some user data, and ads on
my blog are worth much more.

~~~
ogre_codes
> This is due to (1) not having enough data to build good algorithms

Fundamentally advertising serves the needs of advertisers and not the needs of
the viewer. No amount of additional data will make advertising less
frustrating because ultimately neither the publisher, nor the advertiser cares
if my experience is more or less frustrating.

More data won't result in less frustrating advertising, it will result in more
_effective_ advertising for the advertiser and more revenue flowing to the big
ad companies as a result.

> The majority of publishers make more money from personalized ads. NYT and
> premium publishers don't necessarily since ads on NYT are valuable by
> itself, but ads on my blog are worthless by themselves. Add some user data,
> and ads on my blog are worth much more.

This is neither proven, nor entirely true. Advertising existed and was
profitable before targeted advertising was created. Publishers made _more
money_ before Google/ Facebook took over and dominated the industry.

I've seen very few blogs which are worth a damn which have big advertising
from Google/ Facebook on them. Mostly because good bloggers don't want to
debase their otherwise good content.

------
GekkePrutser
This won't be the end of it. It's just one of the many battles.

And iOS isn't for everyone. Yes it's great for protecting privacy but it's
also extremely restrictive for the users. The fact that they don't even allow
real third-party browsers is baffling in this day and age. I also can't use my
Yubikey in OpenPGP mode which I really need for my password manager and SSH
access. I know it supports U2F now but that's not enough (and was way too late
as well).

But I agree the advertising industry has to die. I don't believe in the
'working together' approach of the EFF with their plugins that stop blocking
cookies when they see the privacy policy file. I mean, if you're not tracking
me, then why need third party cookies in the first place?

It'll never happen though. They'll always find a way to track us.

~~~
pantaloony
Much like Flash, not allowing third-party browsers could be explained as a
cynical control mechanism on Apple’s part... or as their not wanting to see
tech support volume shoot up as Chrome and Firefox users complain their
battery life is terrible. Or some combination of the two.

~~~
GekkePrutser
I understand their have their reasons.. But I don't like them taking that
choice away from me.

The problem is, right now we have only 2 choices. Living in the open world but
getting all our information sucked dry by advertisers. Or live in Apple's
protected little garden but not be allowed to leave it. And pay much more for
hardware specs.

Neither are very appealing.

~~~
platelminto
A new iPhone SE has flagship specs for $400-500, and Androids cheaper than
that (and even much costlier ones) struggle to last 2-3 years - an iPhone
easily lasts 4+.

I don't want to turn this into an Android vs iOS debate, but want to highlight
that one of the main complaints against getting an iPhone (cost) no longer
really applies - it could even be considered a strongsuit. I agree that the
walled garden can be annoying, but I've rarely found myself longing for
Android customisation, and have very much noticed how some apps work much
better on my iPhone. This is completely down to preference though.

I also care deeply about privacy, but even with 0 consideration for it, I
think I still would've switched - I am super happy seeing Apple pushing it
this hard.

(I recently went back to iOS after 2 phones and 5 years on Android)

~~~
GekkePrutser
Well, the iPhone SE has really poor specs compared to an Android of the same
price IMO. The SoC is up to date, but the screen is only LCD, the bezels are
huge (the screen to body ratio is very low) and the camera is only adequate.

Basically you're buying a 4-year-old phone with a modern SoC in it :) I don't
think that is worth the price they are asking. I paid the same (440 euro) for
my S8 3 years ago (it was out a bit over a year), and it already had a
beautiful AMOLED screen, high screen to body ratio, and in particular DeX
which I can't really do without anymore. And it's still fast enough now. I
upgraded to that from my iPhone 6 which was becoming way too slow at that
point (note: iOS 12 did fix this somewhat but by that time I had already had
enough of it). Overall, the S8 aged better for me than the iPhone 6 did.

Compared to what you can get from Apple now vs the Android vendors, Apple is
only ahead in terms of SoC when you're looking in the same price bracket. But
that's not the only spec that matters.

------
nerdjon
This is the number one feature on iOS 14 that I cannot wait for. I am getting
very tired of finding out that unrelated services know that I have used a
specific app (like Facebook knows way too much).

Somewhat related (even though this is focused on Apps). I have noticed an
uptick in websites that don't support safari, likely due to how they handle
cookies. I hope this does not become super common (but I can't imagine many
sites wanting to loose out on the iOS market)

~~~
chadlavi
I'm on the dev beta, and it's pretty stable. There's a public beta available
now. If you're itching to try it out, I'd recommend it!

~~~
nerdjon
I have heard that, my biggest concern is if there was a nasty iCloud bug
introduced.

I would run the risk of loosing a lot of important documents in my iCloud
Drive.

Maybe I will install it on my work iPhone but that is barely used right now.

------
walrus01
I've been using the full desktop version of the ublock origin plugin on
firefox mobile for quite some time, and it's dramatically improved my mobile
experience.

~~~
jyriand
This plugin works only in android, right? Tried to install it on my iPhone but
it said it’s not compatible with my browser although i have Firefox installed.

~~~
captn3m0
Yup, Firefox on iOS isn't the full Firefox, its just a Webview (fake Safari)
due to Apple's restrictions.

So no addons anytime soon.

------
AstralStorm
Some industries need to die. This one is akin to making horse carriages
nowadays, except more evil.

~~~
ocdtrekkie
Pretty much. It's incredible the mental gymnastics the adtech industry has
gone through to believe it's important, or even fundamentally important to the
world.

------
SllX
If an entire industry dies because users were given an explicit upfront
choice, because of one popup like the article says, then it wasn’t a
productive industry.

We’ll see what really happens.

~~~
harpratap
What will really happen is ads get more sinister and hidden. Product
placements in movies will seem childish in comparison. Astro-turfing is
already huge on Reddit, it will spread to all parts of media now, blurring the
lines between genuine opinions and forced narrative.

Ads, marketing and branding are integral part of capitalism, it's never going
to go away from consumption focused societies.

~~~
tinus_hn
That would only mean context based ads are the way to go and spying on people
to create ever more intricate profiles is not necessary.

~~~
harpratap
I personally prefer personalized and explicit ads over vague and hidden inside
content ads, the latter seems very manipulative to me.

------
d--b
At long last! And now I'll know why I pay more for an iPhone.

~~~
t0mas88
That's not a reason to pay more for an iPhone. Android allows you to install
any browser you want (as opposed to Apple still not allowing real third party
browsers), including Firefox with uBlock, which is much much better at privacy
than Safari on Apple and as a bonus makes the internet 3x faster by blocking
ads.

~~~
RKearney
Yes, we should all flock to an operating system developed by an advertising
company in an effort to escape advertisements.

~~~
Spivak
I mean you 1000% shouldn't go to any store, buy an Android phone and just use
it if you want to avoid Google. But Android in isolation is fine as long as
you consider it a hobbyist smartphone platform.

------
thomasedwards
I wish Apple would kill Medium

~~~
asplake
Before that, AMP

~~~
evilduck
They're doing something. Safari has automatically converted AMP links back to
their original pages since iOS 11. It could stand to be a system-wide behavior
for my own usage, but it'd be a little intrusive if you actually did want to
share an AMP link for a specific reason if it automatically altered your
clipboard or text messages.

~~~
jefftk
Chrome does it too, and the AMP project is supportive:
[https://9to5mac.com/2017/08/24/ios-11-safari-amp-
links/](https://9to5mac.com/2017/08/24/ios-11-safari-amp-links/)

The idea is, when a foo has <link rel=canonical href=bar>, if you go to share
foo your browser will actually share the canonical url, bar.

------
dylan604
>But being the most popular mobile ecosystem

I keep seeing quote similar to this about Apple's iOS being so popular, yet
the numbers clearly show that Android devices/users out number iOS. Are they
saying that even with those numbers, Android is unpopular and people would
rather be an iOS user? Is the price point whats preventing them?

~~~
stmL
I believe so. In my country, having an iPhone was a sign of higher income. An
average Android phone with a known brand is about 1K local currency, iPhone SE
is around 5K and iPhone 11 Pro is around 11K. Average junior developer earns
around 5K monthly. Nowadays, even people that can't afford proper food buy
them second hand or with installments.

I, as an Android user, keep reading stories about how iPhone respects privacy
and how it is more stable etc. Even though there is no add-on support for
Firefox on iOS (for uBlock origin) and I know I won't be able to develop any
app for my own iPhone (MacBooks are even more expensive around 20K) I still
want to buy an iPhone to get rid of Google and its compulsory apps. I know if
I care enough about my privacy I can get LineageOS or something, I just want
something that works and not owned by Google.

~~~
lern_too_spel
If you get an iPhone, you will get Apple's compulsory apps. The difference is
that on Android, you can replace Google's apps with other apps.

~~~
dylan604
don't you just exchange that with apps your carrier forces on you?

~~~
lern_too_spel
You can replace those with apps that you like as well. Android doesn't care
who installed the default apps.

------
cryptoz
Since there is already an incentive for apps to grow as big as possible to
show ads to earn more money, I wonder if there is a legitimate way to slow-
pivot all the app stores to an automatic developer payout; no IAP or monthly
subscription per user per app or ads shown in app, simply a payout to devs
based on app install size.

Where does the money come to make those payouts and how do the app store
owners still make money per download too?

I wonder if, with increased care about privacy in consumer minds, Apple or
Google would try an Apple-Arcade-style subscription for apps. Users could pay
$5/month (or tired,lower/higher rates) and get access to a selection of 'paid'
apps without having to pay per app.

Devs would still be incentivized pretty much the same and users would have
higher-quality apps with fewer ads.

Just thinking out loud.

------
sparker72678
Worth noting that you can already get some of these benefits today by going to
Settings -> Privacy -> Advertising and turning on "Limit Ad Tracking".

This sends an all-zeros IDFA to all APIs that request it^1.

iOS 14 begins the new prompts, lets you toggle this on a per-app basis, and,
by being in front of users is just about guaranteed to dramatically increase
the number of users who are opted-in.

[^1] [https://support.appsflyer.com/hc/en-
us/articles/115003734626...](https://support.appsflyer.com/hc/en-
us/articles/115003734626-FAQ-Impact-of-Apple-Limit-Ad-Tracking-on-attribution)

~~~
AnonC
> Settings -> Privacy -> Advertising and turning on "Limit Ad Tracking". This
> sends an all-zeros IDFA to all APIs that request it.

Could you please clarify, even when “Limit Ad Tracking” is on, why the “Reset
Advertising Identifier“ option below it is still there and asks if the
identifier needs to be reset (on tapping it)?

What does “Reset Advertising Identifier” do when “Limit Ad Tracking” is
already on?

Side note: The link you provided throws an error for me saying “could not
connect to server”. Not sure if it’s a temporary issue.

------
hn3333
Unless all traffic is routed through Apple servers advertisers will still be
able to track the ip address.

(A visit to some url, say google.com, with login cookie, and the link between
ip and user is made again.)

~~~
kohtatsu
Seriously I hope IPv6-only never arrives.

Let's just be hippies and share NAT'd IPv4's. Unironically.

Edit: I've gone rogue and blocked IPv6 in DNSCloak.
[https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/dnscloak-secure-dns-
client/id1...](https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/dnscloak-secure-dns-
client/id1452162351)

~~~
Spivak
I mean we could be real real hippies and NAT IPv6. I really see so case for
not doing this since people would still want to use private address space for
internal networks bigger than their assigned public block.

------
sparker72678
While I applaud the feature and hope it gets used by everyone, the idea that
it's going to harm FB/Google/Etc. is unlikely.

There's a good argument to be made here that it will actually _entrench_ them.

Facebook's power comes not just from being creepy, but by having built an
internet-wide advertising platform that anyone can run ads on. You run ads in
one place and billions of people can see them.

While IDFA blocking is nice, it does basically nothing to change FB's
incentives. Until using the personal data they've collected to run ads is
illegal, they'll continue to collect it (and probably after, let's be honest).

All the while, the complexities of running an effective ad network get higher
and higher, making it harder for 3rd parties to compete against FB.

At the end of the day, we have to make ads targeted with previously collected
personal data illegal. End of story.

------
qtplatypus
Can I say “Good”.

------
tgv
Will this also remove (part of) the power of shady companies like Emerdata
Ltd, formerly known as Cambridge Analytica?

------
supernova87a
But doesn't this privacy setting get nullified anyway by companies tracking
your device at the cellular network level? I'm not too familiar with it, but
regardless of whether you accept cookies, etc., they are able to ID you
through your carrier anyway?

~~~
square_usual
> tracking your device at the cellular network level

I'm not aware of this happening at a large scale outside of the networks
themselves, do you have any references for this?

~~~
ceph_
I believe Verizon was caught inserting super-cookies with an ad tracking
identifier. But that method was much easier back when the majority of the web
was just http.

------
mrweasel
While I believe Apple making the right choice, perhaps they could also find a
way to help app developers make money, without ads.

Perhaps one of the reasons developer include ads and tracking is that
recurring revenue is a problem for small developments shops.

------
j45
Once this feature is released and verified live, this is a big reason for me
to potentially move back to iPhone.

I just hope Apple follows through on their promises and not backout of it like
they did with some of the end to end encryption stuff with iCloud.

------
grugagag
Neither Internet or TV advertising ever worked for me in the US. As a matter
of fact I always tended to avoid whatever was advertised to me or whoever
targeted me since I know I will end up paying for that myself when I buy their
product and I'd rather not.

So as a customer I think they should offer me free ads blocking since seeing
the ads would make me avoid those products. If we want to see this industry
change we should all make clear it rarely works and it's an absolute waste of
money.

What worked were ads that were creative back in the day before they all became
canned into the same thing, same voices, etc. Back in Europe the advertising
USED TO BE a lot more fun, I'd genuinely enjoy watch some commercials on TV,
to the point of watching an hour compilation of said best ads.

~~~
Skunkleton
> Neither Internet or TV advertising ever worked for me in the US.

This is a common idea that people hold, but I am pretty suspicious of it.
First, at the macro scale, we know that ads are effective. If they weren't, it
wouldn't be such a huge industry. Second, I think many people misunderstand
what ads are doing. They aren't changing your mind usually, instead they are
reminding and reinforcing something you already know. For example, my next
phone will most certainly be an iPhone, but can an ad make me excited enough
about it to mention that to a friend? Or buy a new phone sooner? Probably.

~~~
brendoelfrendo
It's also fairly well understood that familiarity plays a role in brand
choice. So, you may not care very much about what brand of toothpaste you buy
(as an example), but if you're bombarded with advertisements for Crest, you're
more likely to pick Crest. The advertisement isn't really meant to get you to
go out and buy Crest RIGHT NOW, or even to get you excited about the next time
you buy Crest. It's just there to make sure that next time you need toothpaste
and are staring at a wall of functionally identical brands, Crest is the first
one that jumps into your mind.

------
king_magic
Personalized ads are profoundly creepy. Glad to hopefully see them disappear.

------
eska
If you're working in ads and this comes as a surprise to you, then you haven't
been doing your homework. Steve Jobs himself, RIP, announced this over 10
years ago.

------
jayd16
With this feature, is the information not tracked at all or only tracked by
Apple and then made anonymous when given to apps?

------
m3kw9
Apple news also use targeted ads and they are as shitty as any ad platform in
recommending ads and no way to not see them.

------
scblock
Personalized ads and all the awful tracking and profiling that goes with them
are a plague and must be destroyed.

------
nxpnsv
Better targeting of ads based on content rather than visitors seems like a
great idea... who is doing this?

------
raverbashing
To anyone that took GDPR seriously and not as a reason to shove another popup
in everybody's face this doesn't come as a surprise

It will be even better when advertisers (that is, the ones that pay for ads,
not the ad networks) realize that "over tracking" and retargeting are just
ways of parting them with their money but doesn't increase conversions.

You have basic info about your user, you don't need to track them to 11

~~~
jariel
These conversations are always so one-sided on HN.

Not only is 're-targeting' immensely useful, it absolutely increases
conversions.

Targeting in general helps quite a lot.

Ad targeting is the opposite of evil, it actually increases relevance by a
significant degree, and increases market efficiency, wherein surpluses go to
both sides. There's a huge market for products and services out there and it's
getting harder to connect individuals and products on the long tail.

Without tracking - the big winners will be the mega-brands that can run wide
ad runs to most of the nation. It'll be cheaper to just tell everyone about
McDonald's and impossible for the new snowboarding company to tell you about
their new gear.

~~~
gtufano
Unless, you know, by buying ads on snowboarding gear focused sites, as the
industry has done for decades in the print industry.

~~~
square_usual
Or on apps about snowboarding, or on fora related to snowboarding, or by
paying snowboarding content creators, there's a wealth of opportunities out
there. I don't give a damn about snowboarding when I'm browsing, say, twitter.
(Which, incidentally, for some reason has borked itself into thinking I like
rowing.)

~~~
raverbashing
Exactly

Instead of that they want to shove their new snowboard ads on every blog not
connected to snowboarding you see because you searched "snow" once on Google

~~~
Freak_NL
Or because you just bought a new snowboard on-line (and won't need another for
years), so now you've got snowboard ads everywhere, despite being in the group
of people least likely to need a new snowboard anytime soon.

~~~
stephenr
My shopping habits must be somewhat unique on a local amazon-esque site that
80% of the time when I view something I have already bought (i.e. to check
some detail before it arrives, or sometimes if I want to order more - I buy a
decent amount of hardware and fittings for DIY projects on there) it has a
little carousel at the bottom saying "Others who looked at this item also
looked at:" and it's a list of 8 things, 7 of which I know I've looked at
recently, or even bought.

------
pronel
Apple is a bit naive. How will they block adtech companies fingerprinting TF
out of users?

There's too much money on the plate. Companies such as Adjust have
fingerprinting tech and announced this as one option against Apple's move. All
GDPR compliant because they don't need to get user's approval but their
customers need to. And do their customers ask for approval _before_
fingerprinting? Isn't the approval not often mandatory for using the app? Or
somewhere buried deep in the Privacy Statement and given _afterwards_? And if
customers just fingerprinted without approval how would Apple ever find out
that Appsflyer or Adjust just were used to fingerprint and to track you until
you get your next iPhone?

If Apple was serious about privacy they would have detected and banned anyone
using fingerprint SDKs. As sad this sounds for most users: Adtech won't die,
Apple will rather make fingerprinting tech even stronger.

------
christiansakai
"Cry me a river"

Says no one ever.

------
soared
Always interesting to see the "advertising industry needs to die" comments
here. 40% of FAANG is built purely on advertising (7% of the S&P500). Some
non-zero percent of commenters are employed by adtech funded companies.

~~~
alkonaut
”My employer should switch to a different business model or go under” isn’t a
weird opinion.

~~~
soared
"The industry I work in should die for ethical reasons."

\- Skilled knowledge worker who could move to another industry, but the money
bought out their ethics.

~~~
alkonaut
I said “change _or_ ”. That’s an important distinction.

Lots of people work in industries that have questionable practices.

It’s a pretty far jump from working at, say, a newspaper that shows ad-network
ads (which I find questionable and I think falls into the category “find a new
business model or die”), and working for something _actually_ unethical.

Also what I meant wasn’t that a whole industry such as online news should die,
only change business model.

------
StevePlea
without paywall: [https://outline.com/pVuLZg](https://outline.com/pVuLZg)

~~~
anupamchugh
Here’s the medium friend link without paywall from the author himself:
[https://medium.com/p/apple-is-killing-a-billion-dollar-ad-
in...](https://medium.com/p/apple-is-killing-a-billion-dollar-ad-industry-
with-one-popup-2f83d182837f?source=email-9833cc01f515--
writer.postDistributed&sk=3b0e2ef3463837b34503764257d2f9b3)

------
dutch3000
you mean the ads for bicycles after i just bought one?

------
tobyhinloopen
Good

------
sneak
When did Medium get a “sign up” paywall?

It feels like more and more content linked on HN is paywalled, adblockwalled,
or otherwise obscured these days.

------
mark_l_watson
Off topic, I have been enjoying the iOS and iPadOS version 14 betas.

This privacy feature is pro-consumer and I am all for it! I pay money to
Google (GCP, Play entertainment stuff) and FaceBook (Oculus VR addict, here!),
but I don't want them using any of my data to enrich themselves or other
companies.

Everyone should read "The Age of Surveillance Capitalism: The Fight for a
Human Future at the New Frontier of Power." It was printed about 15 months
ago, but is still highly relevant to both convince people that there is a
serious problem and also advice on fighting back.

------
NicoJuicy
<!-- You are not allowed to visit this page on a Safari browser/iOS -->

Apple didn't solve that the ad industry is an alternative for paying to see a
website's content.

So what will happen is that:

\- Safari/iOS users will be required to pay for a ad-supported website

\- Safari/iOS users will be denied access to the website

~~~
La1n
Or those users will still see ads, they just won't be tracked and the ads will
be less personalized.

~~~
kube-system
Or ad networks will just use fingerprinting to generate a unique ID and
continue business as normal.

