
50% of Millennials would give up their right to vote to get student loans erased - coolstoryd2282
http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2017/09/13/50-millennials-would-give-up-their-right-to-vote-to-get-student-loans-erased.amp.html
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brailsafe
Ugh. There are so many fucking problems with this. Here's the survey for
reference. [https://www.credible.com/blog/survey-millennials-student-
loa...](https://www.credible.com/blog/survey-millennials-student-loan-debt-
forgiveness#methodology)

Read that and tell me it's sensible to extrapolate that and validate the
title. There's a reason it's not linked as a source. Because it's crap.

TL:DR Amongst other huge problems like only providing the final percentages of
selected answers, 50% is exactly 250 people who have student loans with the
company. It's not a "personal finance" company. It's a student loan provider
who all of the respondents likely owe varying amounts of money to.

This is exactly an actual debt collector asking it's debtors what they would
do to get their debt forgiven while dangling their life in front of them.

Intellectually, it might be an interesting hypothetical discussion. But this
article and the survey aren't worth much.

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jmole
It's a simple economic calculation.

Let's say I have $130k+ in college loans. Would voting for a particular person
(or a set of people over the rest of my life) give me $130k+ in direct
benefits? Probably not.

The more poignant conclusion here is that our votes are actually worth very
little.

Another conclusion is that "values" are more important than money, and we vote
to establish values, not to make money.

~~~
newsmania
Your right to vote does a lot more for you than get you money, it can keep you
alive! For one it could reduce the likelihood of the draft being reinstated
and people forced to go due in Vietnam.

Additionally it could keep you out of jail.

~~~
thisisdave
>voting could reduce the likelihood of the draft being reinstated

... only in the unlikely event that my vote changes the outcome of an
election, and the candidate I voted for would also be able to affect such a
big legislative change.

Millenials as a group might be worse off if many traded away their right to
vote, but that's not the same thing as saying that individuals benefit in a
tangible way from that right.

------
amb23
That survey seemed to be designed for a the sensationalist headline. When half
the country's vote doesn't matter anyways (due to the Electoral College) it's
easy to trade "the right to vote in the next two presidential elections" with
tens of thousands of student loan debt that prevents you from, say, buying a
house and starting a family.

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tonyztan
Once you lose the right to vote, you are on track to lose all your other
rights too. Suddenly you'll find out the trade was not worth it, albeit it'd
be too late.

Never surrender voting rights for any reason. No vote == no voice in
government.

~~~
lprubin
A list of things that I think give a loud voice in government besides voting.

\- Donating to a candidate

\- Volunteering to help a candidate's campaign

\- Running for office

\- Working for a government agency

\- Writing about politics in blog, news publication, or scholarly journal.

\- Writing and circulating petitions

\- Protesting

\- Flyering for a cause

\- Creating tech that supports a political cause

\- Calling and emailing candidates and politicians about an issue

~~~
devonkim
Having worked before at a government agency in a program explicitly designed
and chartered to cause change in the respective agency, I really can't agree
with that particular item. As organizations get larger and older they become
ossified and (in the absence of systems designed to improve standards) slower,
which tends to cause a vicious cycle that all large organizations suffer from
private or public sector. Not all agencies are described this way, but the
ones I have interest in changing (the most influence) are very, very resistant
to change and what changes do happen are the opposite of the what I'd wish due
to cultural resistance stuck in a feedback loop. This is at least leading to
failed companies in private sector oftentimes, but it's even sadder in public
sector.

I think many people see this list and the first reaction will be "how will
this enact change?" because many of us see that these actions are oftentimes
ineffective against very well funded political machines and an increasingly
jaded public. I basically don't look at political flyers and thanks to ad
blockers I saw almost zero ads this past election cycle. But I did see lawn
signs in Atlanta's record-setting congressional race this year.

------
abra_kadabra
I think this really shows 2 things.

1) the amount of debt accumulated by this group for their degrees is much
larger than they're comfortable with 2) how much more important personal
finance is as compared to government finance at this particular point in time

~~~
hajile
Student loan terms are the worst loan terms our country has had since debtors
prison was taken off the table.

You have to go to college to be allowed to sweep the floors (so to speak) and
because bad loans are available, college tuition grows to match the available
balance.

The result is that people are forced into loans with bad terms by necessity
only to find out they can't buy that house because they already have a
horrible mortgage on their education.

The idea of trading the chains of bad loans now for a few votes (and only
potential chains later) understandably becomes appealing.

If anything, this shows that college needs to go back to basics and become
sustainable again. Capping student loans at amounts way below current market
would be a good start (perhaps at what colleges cost in 1980 before super
inflation happened).

~~~
abra_kadabra
Capping student loans would definitely be a positive first step in the
process. A study conducted by the federal reserve bank of NY found that:

"We find apass-through effect on tuition of changes in subsidized loan
maximums of about 60cents onthe dollar, and smaller but positive effects for
unsubsidized federal loans. The subsidized loaneffect is most pronounced for
more expensive degrees, those offered by private institutions, andfor two-year
or vocational programs"

[http://www.newyorkfed.org/research/staff_reports/sr733.pdf](http://www.newyorkfed.org/research/staff_reports/sr733.pdf)

------
kingmanaz
From Plutarch's "Lucullus":

"Lucullus now turned his attention to the cities in Asia, in order that, while
he was at leisure from military enterprises, he might do something for the
furtherance of justice and law. Through long lack of these, unspeakable and
incredible misfortunes were rife in the province. Its people were plundered
and reduced to slavery by the tax-gatherers and money-lenders. Families were
forced to sell their comely sons and virgin daughters, and cities their votive
offerings, pictures, and sacred statues. At last men had to surrender to their
creditors and serve them as slaves, but what preceded this was far worse, —
tortures of rope, barrier, and horse; standing under the open sky in the
blazing sun of summer, and in winter, being thrust into mud or ice. Slavery
seemed, by comparison, to be disburdenment and peace. Such were the evils
which Lucullus found in the cities, and in a short time he freed the oppressed
from all of them."

"In the first place, he ordered that the monthly rate of interest should be
reckoned at one per cent., and no more; in the second place, he cut off all
interest that exceeded the principal; third, and most important of all, he
ordained that the lender should receive not more than the fourth part of his
debtor's income, and any lender who added interest to principal was deprived
of the whole. Thus, in less than four years' time, the debts were all paid,
and the properties restored to their owners unencumbered. This public debt had
its origin in the twenty thousand talents which Sulla had laid upon Asia as a
contribution, and twice this amount had been paid back to the money-lenders.
Yet now, by reckoning usurious interest, they had brought the total debt up to
a hundred and twenty thousand talents. These men, accordingly, considered
themselves outraged, and raised a clamour against Lucullus at Rome. They also
bribed some of the tribunes to proceed against him, being men of great
influence, who had got many of the active politicians into their debt.
Lucullus, however, was not only beloved by the peoples whom he had benefited,
nay, other provinces also longed to have him set over them, and felicitated
those whose good fortune it was to have such a governor."

[http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/e/roman/texts/plutarch/l...](http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/e/roman/texts/plutarch/lives/lucullus*.html)

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thinkMOAR
[http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/go-to-prison-and-get-
you...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/go-to-prison-and-get-your-federal-
student-loans-forgiven_us_57fe798de4b0f42ad3d258ee)

Afaik this is already possible, just commit a serious enough felony and make
sure you go to a federal prison :) you won't be able to vote anymore, plus
easy way to get rid of your student loan(s). I wouldn't advice it though.

~~~
chii
How does going to prison get rid of a loan?!

~~~
thinkMOAR
read the article :)

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Simon_says
People give away their vote for a couple beers. This is a no-brainer.

The power of a voting block scales with the square of the size of the block.
Individual votes are near meaningless.

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cbanek
Sure, the survey is questionable, and the results are even more so.

But I feel like someone could equally do the same thing about baby boomers and
medical costs. A lot of people are just desperate, and would basically give
anything to solve their very real problems. Really the title should be
"desperate people willing to do anything to solve really hard problem agree to
ridiculous hypothetical for magical solution"

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oblib
Aside from the silliness of the title and lack of any credible statistical
analysis, that page looks like it was slapped together by a middle schooler
back in 1998.

I honestly thought it was comical spoof site or an impostor and had to double
check the url to make sure it was really "FOX News".

I'd offer FOX News has sunk to new lows with this, but that would be
inaccurate too.

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roceasta
That would be a double whammy since debtors have diminished political
influence/lobbying power even _with_ the vote.

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bennettfeely
Half of millennials didn't even vote in 2016. And people who did vote should
know the weight of their vote varies by what state they live in.

I'm only surprised the % of millennials giving up their right to vote isn't
far higher.

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shifter
That's a trade I'd support!

