
Microsoft Buys German To-Do List Startup 6Wunderkinder - abetaha
http://www.wsj.com/articles/microsoft-buys-german-to-do-list-startup-6wunderkinder-1433177558?mod=yahoo_hs&ref=yfp
======
ChuckMcM
Congrats to the Wunderlist team.

And oh crap, one of my favorite startup quotes was "Nobody got rich making a
Todo list App." That is in danger of being falsified :-)

It is interesting to consider Microsoft's putative strategy here which is that
the mobile "OS" is still searching for the right mix of capabilities to
completely replace laptops.

~~~
phlyingpenguin
> And oh crap, one of my favorite startup quotes was "Nobody got rich making a
> Todo list App." That is in danger of being falsified :-)

Ehh, Yahoo bought Astrid a while ago and closed it. The price wasn't
announced, but I imagine they did well. My heart still pangs for the long-dead
Astrid app, and I'm just that much less likely to use any Yahoo service
because of that murder.

~~~
NSAID
You may be interested in "Tasks", an open source replacement for Astrid. I
don't believe it does everything Astrid did, but it has worked wonderfully for
my needs.

[https://github.com/tasks/tasks](https://github.com/tasks/tasks)
[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.tasks](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.tasks)

~~~
phlyingpenguin
Hey, neat! Sadly I'm on iOS these days so I've just gone to using todoist.

------
coldtea
One thing I don't see mentioned here that might be of interest to some people.

James Duncan Davidson had left SF to work in Berlin for Wunderlist a year or
so ago, so is part of the team that was acquired.

For those not familiar with the name, he was quite famous for us working in
Java land back in the day. He worked at SUN and created the first versions of
Tomcat and Ant.

He was also an O'Reilly author, with books such as Learning Cocoa with
Objective-C, Cocoa in a Nutshell (and also wrote the Agile Web Development
with Rails book for the the Pragmatic Programmers editions).

He's also quite famous as a photographer (his other job), covering many
O'Reilly conferences, Apple events, TED and such. Some very iconic tech
related pictures from such events are his.

[EDIT] Another thing I don't see mentioned. This is not just a TODO list app.
It's more of like MS buying their own "Slack".

~~~
sleazebreeze
I believe Chad Fowler of the Passionate Programmer is the CTO at Wunderlist as
well.

------
troymc
If you're a user of DuckDuckGo, here's a quick way to get to the full-text of
the WSJ article:

!gn "Microsoft Buys German To-Do List Startup 6Wunderkinder"

(!gn is the Google News !bang)

~~~
lawl
For everyone not using DDG, click trough here:
[https://news.google.com/news/search?q=%22Microsoft%20Buys%20...](https://news.google.com/news/search?q=%22Microsoft%20Buys%20German%20To-
Do%20List%20Startup%206Wunderkinder%22)

------
radley
The actual price is $100M - 200M.

[https://twitter.com/Amirmizroch/status/605428008611160064](https://twitter.com/Amirmizroch/status/605428008611160064)

------
theallan
How do big companies make the initial approach? Do you get a phone call out of
the blue from someone at Microsoft saying "We are interesting in acquiring you
- how does x million sound?" (I know I've grossly over simplified!).

~~~
nedwin
Recently went through this.

They first reach out for some kind of "we're looking to do something in this
space and wanted to discuss working with you". Our first conversation was
along the lines of "We're not sure whether we're going to build this, partner
with someone or buy something. Keen to find out more about what you guys are
doing and see if we can work together".

Next meeting it went to "We're clearly not going to build this ourselves, and
it doesn't make sense to partner but let's talk about what it would look like
if we acquired you. How do you think your tech/team would work inside our
company".

Took maybe 6 meetings in total to get to a price though we probably could have
forced that sooner.

~~~
pkaye
What kind of details do they ask before giving an offer? Anything that might
be considered proprietary or were they eager from the go?

~~~
nedwin
We ran them through the front end of our product and how it works from top to
tail, discussing why we made certain product decisions.

Almost everything they could have seen as a user of our app but a few things
that were admin functions.

A bunch of it they could have used to build their own app but we figured that
was pretty unlikely.

They asked for a few things we did disclose like: \- team size / locations /
education \- revenue (we didn't need to disclose but we did)

They also asked for a few things we didn't disclose like: \- cap table \- how
much we had raised \- what our last valuation was.

We kept it on a need to know basis - the above is irrelevant to them pricing
the company.

~~~
pkaye
Were there any NDA put in place or did you just hope for the best?

------
testingonprod
The apps that Microsoft has been buying recently are just incredibly top
notch. Sunrise, Accompli, and now Wunderlist?!? Crazy good best-in-class
products.

~~~
tw04
I have to disagree on best in class. Wunderlist was a pig on desktop, and they
killed the desktop app entirely for Windows7. I far prefer todoist.

I also think Tempo is head and shoulders above Sunrise after spending
significant time with both. I can't find the value in a calendar app that
lacks the ability to dial a conference call number in 2015.

~~~
orangechicken
Unfortunately you'll only be able to use Tempo until June 30th. They've been
acquired by Salesforce and are discontinuing Tempo (at least in its current
form…)

------
dmix
Microsoft backing Cyanogenmod, bringing Cortana to Android, and now acquiring
productivity apps...

Looks like they are making a strong play to compete with Siri/Google Now which
will be critical to the future of these big tech corps. Once AI gets better,
everyone will want a 'smart assistant' helping them organize their day.

That will likely heavily influence which OS customers choose in the future as
the data sensors need to sync across platforms to be really effective
(desktop->mobile->watch->car etc).

~~~
helyka
As a Windows user with an iPhone I am very happy that they are bringing
Cortana to iOS. I like unifying my environment, but I don't want to buy a new
device to do that.

~~~
bad_user
Given the shitty experience I've been having with OneCloud on OS X, or with
Office on Android, I kind of doubt that the experience will be any good.

~~~
mark_l_watson
Do you actually use OneCloud on OSX and the mini office on Android?

I find OneCloud to be very smooth: I only have a 128GB SSD drive on my old
MacBook Air and the selective sync lets me keep most of my videos, pictures,
backups, etc. offline.

I don't use Office on the Android too much, but it seems OK enough.

BTW, I went with Office 365 as a price/cost decision. For $99/year my wife and
I both get 1 TB of cloud storage, and if we want them the latest office suite.
We both just use the web versions of the Office 365 apps on out MacBook Airs
though.

EDIT: a bonus: the web based Office 365 apps are very useful on my Linux
laptop - I stopped using Libre Office.

~~~
bad_user
Yes, I went through a one mongth trial of Office 365 because the price seemed
good and I really wanted to like it.

On OS X the OneDrive client had problems synchronizing my 80 GB archive -
refused to synchronize files containing characters not accepted on Windows
(like ":"), crashed several times and it was also saturating my network
bandwidth. To make matters worse, OneDrive doesn't have basic functionality,
like a log of what happened (files added, removed), let alone a 30 days
version history. So I have to trust that their shitty client is doing the
right thing.

The way I see it - yes, the Family pack is cost effective, but I'll never
store 1 TB of my data on OneDrive without having logs, versioning and a client
that does not suck for both OS X and Linux. I also think people get to be
irrational about pricing - the price of 1 TB on Dropbox or Google Drive is as
much as 2 Starbucks coffees.

On Android, Office wasn't available for my Nexus 6 (Android L) until 2 or 3
weeks ago when it was finally released. Gave it a try and it's too bare-bones,
plus it had problems displaying documents from work. I expected it to work
well as a viewer, but it doesn't.

~~~
mark_l_watson
I agree that it is annoying to occasionally have to remove special characters
from file names. BTW, I also back up locally so a OneDrive error would be a
real nuisance, but no real damage. I mainly like cloud storage for devices
with small SSD drives, like my old MacBook Air.

I used to be a very happy Dropbox paying customer but I did not like their
hiring of C. Rice to their board of directors.

edit: thanks for the good reply to my comment.

------
pavlov
When they integrate it into OneNote, they can rename it OneDerlist. <ba-da-
ching>

~~~
edvinbesic
Wundernote for Microsoft Phone 10 for Business

~~~
mynameisvlad
Windows Mobile 10*

(Which is completely different than the old Windows Mobile brand, obviously)

~~~
mamby
Windows 10 Mobile

~~~
felickz2
Windows 10 mobile

------
justinmayer
In case this news makes you feel like it's time to move on, here's a link
describing how to delete your Wunderlist account:
[https://support.wunderlist.com/customer/portal/articles/1641...](https://support.wunderlist.com/customer/portal/articles/1641120-how-
can-i-delete-my-wunderlist-account-)

------
jarmitage
Microsoft also bought Sunrise calendar recently, who a few weeks ago announced
compatibility features with Wunderlist.

An interesting play from Microsoft. I wonder if it's one individual within the
company who is pushing in this space. I also wonder if they will shutter both
companies and integrate, or do what Facebook did with Instagram etc.

~~~
cwyers
Microsoft rebranded Acompli, because they already had a strong brand in
Outlook, but has left Sunrise alone, presumably because they don't have a
strong calendar brand of their own (unless they just plan on making Sunrise
into Outlook Calendar). I suspect that Wunderlist will either stay Wunderlist
or become Outlook Tasks or somesuch.

------
neokya
For the record, 6Wunderkinder (Wunderlist) is one of the the poster boys of
(over hyped?) Berlin as startup hub [http://uk.businessinsider.com/the-best-
tech-startups-in-germ...](http://uk.businessinsider.com/the-best-tech-
startups-in-germany-2015-5#6-6wunderkinder-12).

~~~
ethanbond
Overhyped as compared to what, _Silicon Valley?_

~~~
SwellJoe
Every startup hub is overhyped compared to Silicon Valley, but a $100-$200
million exit for a todo list app maker certainly makes it slightly less over-
hyped.

~~~
throwaway12357
$100-$200 million!?

I'm dumbfounded with this.

How many users did the app have?

Granted it's a more than a TODO list. But it looks like an exorbitant amount
of money for it.

~~~
neokya
They have 10 million users, so it's fair price to pay I guess
[https://www.wunderlist.com/world-productivity-
report/](https://www.wunderlist.com/world-productivity-report/)

~~~
easytiger
> They have 10 million users

10 Million active users? Or like me, installed it, abandoned it; like most
todo apps.

~~~
pjbrunet
Same here, I'm back to using a text file. I can access it from all my devices
with DroidEdit. For todos, any UI is a distraction, but that's just me.

------
bkurtz13
There should really have to be a (paywall) warning added to the titles of
posts like this.

------
mparramon
Here's how you can get your data out of Wunderlist, in case you're thinking on
migrating:

[http://www.developingandstuff.com/2015/03/export-list-
from-w...](http://www.developingandstuff.com/2015/03/export-list-from-
wunderlist-even-if.html)

~~~
leejoramo
Wanderlust did recently release an API, looks like you can now access lists in
a more formal way:
[http://developer.wunderlist.com/documentation/endpoints/list](http://developer.wunderlist.com/documentation/endpoints/list)

------
easytiger
Can we please stop posting paywalled content?

[http://www.slashgear.com/microsoft-tipped-to-
buy-6wunderkind...](http://www.slashgear.com/microsoft-tipped-to-
buy-6wunderkinder-for-to-do-lists-galore-01386160/)

~~~
downandout
A happy medium might be to post a link to the Google search for the title.
Clicking on the WSJ link from the result will bypass the paywall. Also I'm not
necessarily trying to knock the poster or suggest spamming on the part of WSJ,
but he or she has an awful lot of WSJ paywalled posts here [1].

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=abetaha](https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=abetaha)

~~~
danw3
Looks an awful lot like spam to me.

------
jdhendrickson
Wunderlist is integral to our companies business processes and it was a fight
to get everyone moved onto it, I can only hope Microsoft has a hands off
approach to the app and continues to let them create a best in class
application.

~~~
sk8ingdom
This is sadly the cost of using non open source technology. Once it sells to a
larger company, the fate is uncertain and your data is locked in.

------
downandout
Everytime I run into the WSJ paywall I want to throw things. Yes it is easy to
get around but no we shouldn't have to. Because advertising.

Anyway does anyone know approximately how many users this app had? Seems like
a pretty rich valuation for a to-do list app.

~~~
robhu
If you're often running in to the WSJ paywall that means their content is
often good, and they fund that content through subscriptions. Their
competitors, who you're not running in to very often are not funded through
subscriptions.

Maybe subscriptions lead to higher quality content?

~~~
dragonwriter
> If you're often running in to the WSJ paywall that means their content is
> often good,

Doesn't follow. It does mean its often get linked in places that I read, but
that doesn't mean its good.

> Their competitors, who you're not running in to very often

That was never stated and is an unreasonable assumption.

Just because one isn't running into competitors paywalls (because other
sources often don't have such a thing) doesn't mean one is not running into
the competitors far more often than the WSJ.

~~~
robhu
I'm assuming there is a filtering function occurring at HN which means that
high quality sources are being linked to more often than low quality sources.
I think that's a reasonable assumption, and is why WSJ is getting linked to a
lot here.

It's also pretty reasonable to believe that they make more money from
subscriptions than they would from advertising, and that they're more likely
to be able to afford to produce high quality articles with more money than
with less.

------
ucha
They were bought for <2M while they received 24M in funding? Am I missing
something?

~~~
byoung2
There must be a typo in the article. Maybe it should be $100-$200 million?

EDIT: I just emailed the author and it was a mistake. I'm still seeing the old
numbers on the site though.

~~~
eps
Yup, this seems to align with earlier speculation -
[http://venturebeat.com/2015/05/21/microsoft-is-almost-
certai...](http://venturebeat.com/2015/05/21/microsoft-is-almost-certainly-
buying-6wunderkinder-the-company-behind-wunderlist-source-says/)

------
josep2
By far my favorite To-Do List app. Microsoft purchased my favorite Calendar
app a few months ago. What will be next?

~~~
creativityhurts
They also bought Acompli and then released Outlook for iOS. They're on a roll.

------
tdietrich
"The idea is to get users hooked on great apps and services made by Microsoft,
with the hope those people will eventually make the jump to Windows computers,
phones, and tablets."

Good luck with that.

------
kpennell
Dang, I really love Wunderlist. Hope MSFT only makes it better! I wish I could
drop a list in it more easily. I use it as a shopping list.

------
Yhippa
When I started using Sunrise I saw all these things you could connect to it
one of which was Todoist. I really love what Todoist has done for to-do lists.
I am less of a fan of Wunderlist because it doesn't have quite the features of
Todoist that I'm looking for and fear that they're going to be doing better
integration with Wunderlist.

------
ArekDymalski
While I could understand buying Sunrise calendar for the userbase, this
acquisition is surprising in that matter.

~~~
blumkvist
You got it wrong. This is for the userbase. Sunrise was for the team and
functionality.

------
rgovind
Honest question : I thought there are many ToDO list startups Why is this
still an unsolved problem?

~~~
dragonwriter
Because a 'todo list' isn't a problem, its a piece (but only a piece) of a
solution to a variety of problems, which don't all have the same solution
(even for any given user that has multiple of the problems that todo lists are
a component of a solution for.)

~~~
prawn
Agreed. And it's why, even though it's another play in a crowded space, a
friend and I built yet-another-to-do-app. I've tried loads of them, but go
back to pen and paper every time.

However, for one subset of the to-do world (regular habits), I think an app
can consistently help. I've been using our beta for a couple of months and
have stuck with it. (Link in profile if you're interested.)

I think us pen-and-paper types might finally be swayed when AR/VR is stronger
and we can interact with our to-do items quickly in a more organic way -
moving them around, easily prioritising, associating sketches, etc.

------
vivekian2
I love Wunderlist especially because it works on my work Linux desktop, home
Macbook, iPhone and what not.

I wonder what does this entail for users like me? Is MS going to leave the app
as it is or is it going to be integrated into something else?

------
ing33k
I use Wunderlist on daily basis, hope they will maintain its simplicity.

~~~
TomAnthony
Likewise. I tried a lot of different todo list and organiser apps out over the
years and finally Wunderlist was the one that really stuck.

I love it and recommend it frequently. Losing it would be a bummer.

On the flip-side: maybe they'll make a tile for my Microsoft Band now! :)

------
ylem
I actually really liked their user interface. I wonder if the app will
continue to exist or if it's time to migrate...

------
bsg75
I hope that MS treats these acquisitions seriously.

Sunrise is lagging a bit on the Mac dekstop - it still cannot connect to
Exchange - and the mobile first craze is starting to look like desktop
becoming a never reached second.

Desktop and mobile integration is where I believe success lies, and hope that
Wunderlist (and Sunrise) continue to be universally usable.

------
amelius
Can anybody enlighten me on the technical difficulties of writing a todo list
manager?

~~~
nkohari
Adoption rates. Not everything is a technical problem.

~~~
amelius
More adoption => more sales => more money => more resources. So, frankly, I
don't see the problem there.

------
jimmygraham
Microsoft is quickly acquiring an impressive suite of apps.

------
Artemis2
I'm so happy for the guys at 6Wunderkinder! I have seen them struggle with
Wunderkit, which was eventually dropped as a product. Time for payback!

------
satyajeet23
I really liked this app. One of my fav. RIP Wunderlist.

------
return0
"Cortana, tell me my wunderlist"

------
vegashacker
It would be nice if this results in the Pro features becoming free.

~~~
jkcl
How would it be run as a sustainable business then? Sorry, but I really fail
to understand how we can expect quality for free. Free means that it's either
run as a hobby (you shouldn't make it part of your workflow as it might
disappear one day) or run on ads (lower quality by implication).

Why not support your favourite apps by paying a little so the good folk can
continue working on it!

~~~
grmarcil
Or option 3, be a goliath sized company (eg Microsoft) and run the app as a
loss leader to consolidate/establish a position as a market leader in mobile.

~~~
tormeh
That's actually the worst option for the consumer long-term.

------
raindev
Okay. I'm migrating my Wunderlist lists to plain text now.

------
xer0x
Congrats wunderkinder. You guys are awesome. gg ms.

------
amelius
How much revenue did they generate last year?

------
frik
US based headquarters cannot transfer money from foreign sister companies back
to US without paying tax, so they buy foreign companies.

Wunderlist seems like one of many todo list apps:
[https://www.wunderlist.com/](https://www.wunderlist.com/)

~~~
frik
Offtopic: Speaking about Microsoft, I just noticed a "Windows 10"
advertisement in my Windows 7 taskbar next to the clock. Windows update
silently installs and launches new applications (two executable) and one of
them comes with enabled Telemetry. 23MB big ad-program is located in
C:\Windows\System32\GWX\\. Check your Windows 7/8 taskbar.

Source: [http://venturebeat.com/2015/05/31/microsoft-starts-
prompting...](http://venturebeat.com/2015/05/31/microsoft-starts-prompting-
windows-7-and-windows-8-users-to-reserve-their-free-windows-10-upgrade/)

[https://support.microsoft.com/de-at/kb/3035583/en-
us](https://support.microsoft.com/de-at/kb/3035583/en-us)

@downvoters: even if it's offtopic, see at least the source

~~~
knodi123
Also offtopic, but everybody really should be brushing twice a day, for a full
2 minutes each time. And flossing.

~~~
Otik
Flossing is actually less important than most people think. It's far more
important to thoroughly brush your teeth, to the extent that most of the time
that people spend flossing would be better off used for brushing.

Flossing doesn't protect against caries, but can provide some benefits for gum
health.

~~~
knodi123
as a child, I was told that my teeth were fairly well protected against
cavities on the open surfaces by cursory brushing, by virtue of my sealants-
but that flossing was equally if not more important since those inter-tooth
pockets were the only places where food could hang out, firmly pressed against
the enamel.

~~~
Otik
There actually hadn't been much research done on it until relatively recently
(and probably still not enough), so your dentist was just following the common
knowledge of the time.

Here's a link: [http://www.cochrane.org/CD008829/ORAL_flossing-to-reduce-
gum...](http://www.cochrane.org/CD008829/ORAL_flossing-to-reduce-gum-disease-
and-tooth-decay#sthash.NDg6RK7U.dpuf)

------
pcunite
If you're reading this post, and you work with Microsoft ... contact me.

