
My dad hid his depression. I won’t hide mine - depressedfather
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-life/wp/2016/02/09/my-dad-killed-himself-when-i-was-13-he-hid-his-depression-i-wont-hide-mine/?tid=a_inl
======
innertracks
7.62x39 was going to be my bullet of choice. 10 years or so of depression was
enough. Until I saw my 3 year old daughter down the hall while I was heading
to the closet to get the rifle. In that moment, I chose to endure the pain for
her. Not that I didn't think about it again, many times, over the years.

A friend happened to call a few days later. He convinced me to schedule a
doctor's appointment that day. Tip: The receptionist will find a slot the same
day when you tell them you had to give your guns to a friend just in case. Be
honest with them.

Sleep, light, medication,therapy, nutrition, hydration, friends you can call.
Figuring it all out can be complex. Getting help is vital so keep looking
until you find the help. Finding the right therapist may take a while.

It took me almost 10 years before I stopped having suicidal thoughts after my
near miss. Another 5 years before I figured out one of the main reasons for
what I was experiencing. Nearly 25 years total of the pain of depression
because I figured I could handle it myself.

I was wrong.

Get the help.

~~~
depressedfather
I'm glad you've overcome this. For my part it's been 30 years, probably 40 if
my childhood memories make any sense. I've started to notice that my daughters
switch from laughter to sadness when their gaze reaches me. I'm not sure
staying around is helping them.

~~~
uptown
I keep checking back on this post because the discussion here is some of the
most real stuff I've read on HN. Thank you for spurring that. The world, and
most people's lives are a messy thing. But I can assure you your daughters
will be irreparably worse-off if you were to end your life. That you worry
about what is best for them tells me that you care deeply for them, as I'm
sure they care about you. Please don't break that connection. If you ever need
someone to talk to, I'd absolutely recommend a professional over what I'd be
able to provide, but I'd be happy to listen or talk if you'd rather speak with
a stranger. My contact info is in my profile.

------
reubenmorais
I'm fairly sure I'm depressed, but I feel like I have to hide it in order to
protect my mom, who is also depressed. She's been dealing with her depression
for about five years now, and thanks to software I've been able to support our
family for the past three years (I'm 22), which is fantastic for her and my
siblings, but at the same time it makes me feel like I have to be an
emotional/financial anchor for the family. Because of all this I've gotten
very good at suppressing most of my emotions. I have a hard time maintaining
my friendships and meeting new people, and I can't help but resent my own
family for something that is really not their fault. They in turn resent me
for being cold and distant.

Anyway, sorry for ranting, the article just made me feel like sharing this,
for a change.

~~~
vr3690
You should go talk to someone professional about all this. It'll definitely be
helpful

~~~
qbit
I'm curious and I think others might be as well. How does one possibly go
about finding a therapist who is a good fit? It seems like searching for a
needle in a haystack -- akin to finding a good life partner which requires
lots of trial and error.

~~~
jacalata
I went to a doctor and got anti-depressants first. I didn't find a good
therapist until a couple years later, but the meds helped.

~~~
dominotw
yea zoloft gave me a new lease on life even at minimum doses.

But most therapists are useless.

------
novakinblood
All I can say is you're not alone. I've been diagnosed with major depressive
disorder, have 4 kids (youngest is 7months) and I'm going through therapy and
working on medication. It's aggravating because for me the medication takes
time to make a difference. Also I'm working on 2 engineering jobs to make ends
meet.

The thing that has helped is opening up to a select few of friends. I am not
the kind of person to open up emotionally but realized that if I want my kids
to have a healthy dad, I have to do something different. But the older kids
have noticed my sadness.

My therapist told me something that helped and that is I should strive for
progress and not perfection. A goal oriented person is striving for perfection
but that's an impossible goal when going through depression.

The fog from depression initially made me believe I had no friends. But when I
took time to observe my life and journal, I realized there were a few friends
for which I eventually opened up to. It helps to have a support system in
addition to any doctors you see.

~~~
nextos
Have you checked your thyroid? There's a potential causal link between
hypothyroidism and depression.

~~~
biot
Not sure why you're being downvoted (other than perhaps playing internet
doctor). One of the first things a competent medical professional will do is
to evaluate where you're at, which includes checking thyroid levels. That
said, don't listen to internet doctors; go see a real one and let them do
their job... which will likely include the aforementioned check.

------
depressedfather
I'm like her dad. Reading her story may have altered my path, for the sake of
my daughters, for a bit longer, I guess.

I design software, I code, test and deploy. They think my work is good. It
doesn't matter. I work until I'm tired and then I sleep. I hide my tears from
my family. There's no joy in any of these projects, and I've lost all interest
in my past side projects. I work so much I barely see my daughters before they
go to sleep. If I stop working we'll be bankrupt within months.

~~~
Nrsolis
I'm going to post here under my real nick and hope you read my comments:

I was in a depressive state for close to twenty years. The loss of my mother
at 10 put me there and instead of getting better I settled into my depression
for the next twenty.

Twenty years.

I was irritable and emotional. I had few friends and I made the friends I did
have pay for their mistake of being my friend. I made bad decisions and burned
bridges. I drank too much. I had zero good romantic relationships and was
getting worse. My career, the one good thing in my life, had stagnated. Nobody
wants to work with an asshole.

SO one day, after breaking up with a girl, I finally decided to get help. I
cried like a baby in the office of a therapist. She got me on medication and
in four weeks I was a different person. I combined that drug therapy with talk
therapy and completely turned my life around. It wouldn't be a stretch to
suggest it's similar to hearing music for the first time or seeing color. I
was able to smile and find joy in the world again. By almost every measure, my
life improved. Things have only gotten better since then.

I want you to seek help. Make use of the opportunity to completely change the
trajectory of your life by getting out of the mindset you're currently in. If
you need medication, take it. If you don't, invest time in talk therapy. Find
a therapist you trust and who is competent. If you don't like the one you get,
find another. DO THE WORK.

Depression is like cancer of the mind. If you ignore it, it'll consume you
until there is nothing left. Don't ignore it.

My current happiness is only tempered by the knowledge that I lost so much
along the way by ignoring my symptoms. Don't be that guy. We have a small
amount of time on this rock. Make it worth your while.

~~~
depressedfather
Thank you. It's been 40 years. When I was a teenager I didn't think I'd last
that long. I will seek a therapist tomorrow. I don't quite understand how I
can remain productive at work and everything else is a vast sea of sadness and
anger.

~~~
Nrsolis
You're free to reach out to me if you'd like to talk. I'm not a therapist but
I might be able to provide some encouragement and advice on finding a path to
wellness.

------
levemi
I used to have major depression. When I was in the military I nearly killed
myself when I snuck a bullet from the rifle range back to my barracks. I was
deeply in pain.

I think people who feel this way definitely need to seek help. I was lucky in
that I didn't have to. What solved the worst of it for me was going out and
being with people, having success (and epic failures) with dating.

Even though the depression never really neared suicidal levels again I was
still mostly sad and I didn't realize this until many years later when I took
some MDA. I hadn't ever done drugs before except some minor pot and MDA showed
me the difference between what I had been feeling and what it was possible for
me to feel like. I only took MDA a few times in my life and it's been over a
decade since, but I learned from those experiences what kinds of things made
me feel better and what it was possible to feel like and I've strived to
achieve those feelings without taking drugs.

Now I feel happiness by achieving goals, being around people I love, having
silent moments to myself, exercising, managing my stress levels and listening
to music that makes me feel better.

It's not always a rose garden, life can be tough, but I never really feel like
those awful pains of despair I lived in as a young adult.

------
some_furry
I suffered from severe depression for years (to the point that suicide seemed
preferable to enduring more failure), and only recently (the past year,
really) have managed to stave it off entirely.

I didn't do so through the normal approach: Pills and talking about your
feelings. I didn't do much of anything, really.

* The major sources of stress in my life worked themselves out. (I don't want to go into detail about this one.)

* I went on a ketogenic diet for a while, which helped with the anxiety significantly. I stopped six months ago because of unemployment (keto diets are expensive!), and the anxiety has not come back.

* I truly _accepted_ that, no matter how much weight I lose or how successful I am in my career, I'll probably never be attractive enough to find a boyfriend. This was something that used to torment me with feelings of inadequacy (magnified by having to be in the closet to my religious family).

Recently, I started working a job that actually provides a livable wage AND
health insurance benefits. (Also, paid time off. I haven't taken a vacation in
five years!)

Now that I might actually be able to afford mental health care, I'm waiting to
see if the depression will come back, because conventional wisdom says these
small tweaks to my life are temporary measures at best. (However, if it
doesn't come back, I'm cool with that.)

These were my experiences with depression. I'm sure many more people have
suffered through it than will admit it.

~~~
nekopa
I think you'll find that weight and success are not the only measures of
attractiveness. Self confidence and being yourself work as well.

~~~
some_furry
That's a good point, and I hope it helps someone reading this thread.

As for me: I'm focusing on my friends and my career, not the uncertain
prospects of romance. I don't even go to the local furry meetups anymore (all
they really talked about was relationship drama, so not a huge loss).

Hope can be the biggest downer. I've learned to live without it. It's
surprisingly liberating, actually. (I wouldn't recommend this for everyone.)

~~~
sosuke
Having certain hopes can feel like measuring yourself and seeing how much
you've failed to achieve that hope. It is liberating to let go of hope but
you'll find it creeps back in with time since you're feeling good. Wishing you
well.

------
smoyer
I'm pretty sure that I don't have depression but I've certainly felt "stuck".
The responsibility of raising a family can be a heavy load - and a responsible
father feels that weight. An irresponsible father doesn't feel the weight and
it has little bearing on his decisions. Kudos for being a real dad - you'll
imprint important life lessons on your daughters whether you realize it or
not. My eldest daughter (almost 23) recently told me that she's only now
realizing how much I sacrificed to make my family a safe and nurturing place
for my kids.

In any case, when I feel "stuck", I look at specifically what's making me
unhappy and what would make me happy. Then I form a long-term plan. You may
not be able to quit your current work today, but what would it take to move
into something you find rewarding. It might mean life-style changes: Got a car
payment? Replace it with a beater you don't owe money on (my beater is really
really nice but was a simple cash transaction).

I'd also caution you that you can't naturally work the long hours you're
describing as a permanent schedule. You will burn out and/or your body will
give out whether you have depression or not. If you're not exercising some
minimum amount and you're not eating a healthy diet, that will also lower the
threshold at which you give out.

I'm not a doctor or even a therapist - you should find one to talk with. I
have however had joyless periods in my worklife, so please take my advice
above with the understanding that you actually have two problems ... your
depression is one and your lifestyle is the other. They will potentially
exacerbate each other.

My email address is in my profile - feel free to correspond if you're
interested in talking about the work related problems you're experiencing.
Again, I'm not qualified to counsel you on the depression you're feeling. I've
been in this industry for over 30 years, so you probably won't surprise me.
Also notice my profile lists my family as my priority - they provide grounding
for my work life.

Hope to hear from you ... and happy Easter.

P.S. I've got some job openings if you decide you need to make a work change.
Perhaps there's something that matches your skills.

~~~
samstave
Thank you for this comment. As a father of 3, I know the feel of the load, but
its important to note that it also needs to be a partnership to succeed - no
single person can carry the load of several children alone.

Also, your site is down...

~~~
smoyer
I completely agree ... my wife is indeed my partner and I can't imagine life
without her. Picking the right partner makes a big difference too!

WRT my site(s) ... I lost a server to hackers due to a RoR exploit (I was only
running Redmine). As patio11 advises, don't use RoR unless you're willing to
dedicate yourself to understanding how to keep it secure. I'm in the process
of converting the content to markdown to be processed with a static code
generator. I've got some old writing on CodeSnipers (Keith Casey's mid-2000s
experiment) - [http://codesnipers.com/?q=blog/steve-
moyer](http://codesnipers.com/?q=blog/steve-moyer)

------
dcsadthrowaway
The author here is pretty brave. I've often thought about writing something
along similar lines. When you're living in DC and you aren't doing this long
list of elite stuff, it's much less ok to admit you're not ok. Many places
want their younger workers to work hard, not smart. I'm currently looking for
a job that have more autonomy, more respect for the individual, but they're
hard to find.

It's especially frustrating since after trying a bunch of treatments (therapy,
prescription drugs, and various combinations of the two), I've found that good
sleep, regular exercise, and the ocassional bowl of weed after work have
improved things tremendously.

However, marijuana remains illegal at the federal level.

Even for "uncleared" work, you often have to go through a background check,
and one of the questions asks "Have you illegally used drugs" in a certain
time frame. (A year, if I remember correctly). I've been told informally it's
a "don't ask, don't tell" situation. So basically, even if a position doesn't
drug test, you now have the fact you lied on a clearance form hanging over
your head.

This has a trickle down effect... the jobs that don't care about any of the
above don't do a clearance check are quite hard to get.

~~~
mirimir
Be careful using weed to mask depression. It does work, in my experience. But
tolerance can develop over time. It's nowhere near as dramatic as addiction to
tobacco or heroin or benzodiazepines. Yet there is the risk.

Also, dogma and accepted practice notwithstanding, "depression" is a morass of
symptoms, not a well-defined disease/condition. Testing treatments is hard,
because symptoms subjective and placebo effects are huge. And worse, GPs tend
to cluelessly prescribe popular SSRIs/SNRIs, and those can make bipolar folks
seriously crazy. As in psychotic. homicidal and/or suicidal. Especially
younger patients, apparently. So be careful!

~~~
rmetzler
The author had withdrawals from her medication which wouldn't happen with
marijuana. At most you won't sleep that well for a few nights and then
experience vivid dreams. And often a sativa strain works well to give the
patient motivation to exercise, which seems to be basic but important when
fighting depression.

~~~
DanBC
I wanted to point out how dangerous your post is.

There's a well known risky time during treatment for depression in people with
suicidal ideation. Those people get more motivation, and are more able to do
stuff. But they still have strongly negative thinking and suicidal thinking.
They are more able to kill themselves, and many do.

> motivation to exercise, which seems to be basic but important when fighting
> depression

There are two links in this thread to the science that show exercise probably
isn't that useful to treat depression.

------
formula1
As someone who has suffered from depression for my entire life I can say the
truth sets me free in a lot of ways. My life is a weird struggle between the
feeling of hopelessness, paranoia makes me feel like I am worth taking care of
and overall confusion of my emotions and what my best path.

Today I believe that I am a dog, to be trained as a dog. Find what good things
reward me and reward myself for doing good. Avoid what hurts me or rewards me
for doing bad. Additionally I have almost always sufferred from dellusions of
granduer, believing I can do more than I can. These delusions have always
brought me joy and purpose, as if I am worth life.

Sometimes depression comes up again, now adays I rationalize it. It is my
brain telling me my current path is unrealistic, I will fail and that I am a
burden to society. Time/practice of a skill is the ultimate determination of
realism. Failing is the reault of not preparing for obstacles and not looking
for opportunities. Being a burden is only official when I stop thinking, stop
talking, stop bringing emotions to other people and stop pushing for what I
want.

To be homest, most of my interactions with depression are micro aggressions.
Last month I got severely depressed. But that also comes about when there are
promises I cannot keep. Which leads me to say, this may or may not be the
correct road but It has helped me.

~~~
InclinedPlane
Are you sure you're not bipolar? I thought I suffered from depression for 20
years until I finally figured out I was actually bipolar. The portrayal of
bipolar in the media and the zeitgeist about it are not reflective of what it
looks like, or feels like, in reality. More so, the prevalence of "bipolar 2"
(depression + hypomania, not full on mania) is much greater than bipolar 1,
but poorly understood by the public at large. There are a lot of tropes about
bipolar that just aren't true. That you have tons and tons of energy like
you're on meth, that you act "crazy" when you're manic, that you're
ludicrously "happy" when manic/hypomanic, that phases come and go at random.
None of that bore a resemblance to my life, so I never knew. For me bouts of
hypomania always just felt like periods where I had just found something to
work on and somehow had managed to maintain focus on it for a while, they're
periods of productivity or enthusiasm, often about new things. And only rarely
would I describe them as periods of happiness, when you're depressed for so
long it can be difficult to even know what it feels like to be happy, and you
can spend time in a hypomanic state without being notably happy.

But I noticed that there are times when my sleep schedule is very different
(easily masked because I have a sleep disorder as well which makes it
difficult to maintain a consistent schedule), times when I am very chatty,
times when I'm very focused on a project or game or activity (focus on goal
oriented activities), times when I feel a sense of inflated self-esteem or
grandiosity, times of increased risk taking, and so on. I just always saw
these things as aspects of my personality, and things that I'd been able to
leverage for my own benefit or, usually, keep under control.

Here's a list of symptoms:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_II_disorder#Hypomanic_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_II_disorder#Hypomanic_episodes)

~~~
formula1
What you wrote and the article are spot on to my symptoms. I often pass off my
intense excitement as a personality trait and have rarely met anyone similar.
I often relate bi polar to uncontrollable changes while my changes are very
reasonable and often predictable though prolonged and intense. I appreciate
you sharing this information with me

------
raftaa
My dad had kind of a typical (?!) depressive career: he worked a lot. First,
he had a tinnitus and some years after that he had "burnout". 6 months after
my dad retired he tried to jump into death. After 2 weeks of coma he was like
mentally switched. It was christmas and we told him that he'll be grandpa in a
few months. Now, 5 years later he says that this helped a lot. He still does
therapy. He found the therapist that fitted him perfectly. Its still work to
do but he works on it. The therapist told him that he has a trauma like many
Germans which were born in the generation after world war 2. The trauma is the
root cause and he has a chance to overcome this trauma. We will see. My wife's
uncle didn't worked his first depression and recently - about 10 years after
the first breakout - he's depressive again.

------
hollander
Several months ago I saw a documentary about people who have suicidal
thoughts. They followed several people who were in contact with a suicide help
line, either by phone or by chat, with their approval, sometimes anonymized.

What was new to me was that they only could think of committing suicide. It
was a major thought throughout everything they did. Like a major depression is
something completely different from being depressed, this seemed like major
suicidal. One woman who was in her 30s decided to get a daughter hoping her
thougts would disappear when she had someone to take care of. That didn't
happen.

When her daughter grew up, she decided not to commit suicide because it would
be cruel to her daughter. She had a good job, a nice husband, a good life,
with money, car, nice house, a social life and in many ways a better life than
I have, but still she wanted to kill herself. It was in every thought she had.
I cannot explain it, you have to see and hear her explain it. It was
completely new to me. She still lived when the documentary was on TV, but I'm
not sure how long she will live.

------
f_allwein
Definitely a good idea not to hide depression. I also learned that as a
friend/ family member you can help a lot by being there and listening to
people when they are depressed (but not trying to cheer them up). I would
recommend anyone to read up on the condition - e.g.
[http://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-
mental-h...](http://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-
health-problems/depression/#.VvcntsfLIQg)

------
yeukhon
I don't believe in therapy. I have multiple major depressions throughout my
life, and I entered a new one two and a half years ago. I don't believe in
therapy because therapists don't offer anything new but the same comments and
advice I get from books and television shows. Morning commute and night
commute are the darkest hours of my every day life. Sleeping in doesn't help
me because my mind is full of ideas and fears I can't resist to eliminate. I
have invested so much in one relationship which did not last. We were such an
adorable couple and I was so certain we would last until death do us apart.
When I broke up with this girl I turned insane like previous depressions, but
this time, I am done with taking a new way out. If only time travel is real
and I can afford to go back in time. At work many coworkers consider me as a
superstar. But outside of work I deliver no values, but disappointment and
regret. I can only block my mind for as long as I am on the computer playing
games. One day I will commit suicide just so I can leave this physical body
and if I ended up in Hell, so be it. As a Catholic, suicide is not allowed in
my religion. I am just waiting to pay off my mortgage so my parents don't have
to pay for it. I think then I will be better of taking my own life by then. I
am telling you all, therapy is no fucking use.

~~~
shxnxdhsb
This is exactly how I feel. I have no I mention of suicide, but I feel it
looming over me.

The biggest thing that has stopped me has been not wanting my family to have
to deal with my suicide. I've slowly distanced myself from my family over the
past few years, and figure at some point I'll just 'go away' in such a manner
that nobody knows what happened. I guess I'm a bit selfish, but I really don't
care anymore.

~~~
HCIdivision17
Hey, if you're gonna be selfish, fail hedonistic, not dead. Find the stuff you
like and live for that; if you can't seem to like anything, well, put it off
until you do again. No point giving up before you figure out what you're
missing out on. Dying ignorant of what makes life worth living is just the
worst kind of tragedy.

I don't want to suggest vice is great. Just that as far as alternatives go,
maybe you can channel that selfishness :) after all, you can always recover
from a vice you enjoy (and even repent if that is what worries you like the GP
comment), but it's really hard to recover from death.

Millions and millions of people manage to get along through their lives. See
what they have that you don't. I'd bet it's prolly some neurotransmitter or
chemistry, but maybe exercise or a chocolate deficiency (I found I needed
annoyingly stubborn/complicated problems to work on to distract me). Hard to
tell over the Internet. See a doctor about medication or therapy or diet or
something until you did something that works.

 _Then_ see you you feel. (This is very much a heads you win, tails flip again
sort of thing, and it works pretty well as a stalling tactic :)

------
milesf
I've struggled with a serious mental illness for years. Although I've beaten
the worst of it, I have to be vigilant for the rest of my life to make sure I
stay healthy.

In my experience, one issue that does not get enough attention is the stress
and strain mental illness puts on the loved ones of those who suffer from
mental illness. I hate that mine has been a burden on my wife and kids, even
thought I have taken full ownership of it.

I'm glad to see that awareness is growing. We still have a long way to go,
especially in certain industries (I'm looking at you, Hollywood).

------
Gratsby
I'm blown away by all the openness and good advice in this thread.

I've suffered through bouts of depression most of my life as well. Luckily, I
learned a few things about how to deal with it in my younger years - not that
I have always followed the process, but at least the tools are there.

Technical fields are very prone to bring out depression. We work long hours,
spend a lot of time in isolation, and have little time to celebrate our own
successes. Poor eating and lack of exercise add to the recipe of less than
optimal mental health.

There are a few things you can do to help yourself avoid a bad mental state,
and help others as well.

1\. Have a good attitude. This Ted Talk is fantastic:
[https://www.ted.com/talks/shawn_achor_the_happy_secret_to_be...](https://www.ted.com/talks/shawn_achor_the_happy_secret_to_better_work?language=en)

2\. Be more social. Interact with people at work and outside of work. Include
others in your day to day adventures.

3\. Get more sun. It's spring time. Enjoy it.

4\. Get exercise. It's crazy how quickly you can go from completely sedentary
to running a 5k.

5\. Get sleep. It's astounding how much of a difference regular sleep will
make in your happiness, in your metabolism, and in your overall outlook.

6\. Don't accept dangerous behaviors out of your peers. When you see someone
working 100 hour weeks over and over again, make them stop. We all appreciate
a solid work ethic. Don't take advantage of it. When you see a co-worker
isolated due to workload, figure out ways to bring that person out of it.

7\. Be a leader. Be healthy. Have balance. Show people what kind of a
difference that lifestyle can make.

Depression is always best cared for by a professional, but not everyone is
open to therapy. When you identify someone going through it, don't simply
recommend seeing a doctor and move on. Be a friend.

------
anon15
My experience is that a lot of people that are raised in homes with some form
of addiction or other kind of dysfunctionality can have symptoms similar to
depression while the actual need is to treat the traumas from family
dysfunction. If you suspect this and would like to seek help you could have a
look at the 14 common traits of "adult children"
[http://www.adultchildren.org/lit-
Laundry_List#1](http://www.adultchildren.org/lit-Laundry_List#1) I identified
and found a way out of anxiety by attending those meetings.

------
throwaway_2016
Does anyone have an antidepressant they've tried that doesn't give them
horrible sexual side effects such as loss of libido and inability to orgasm?
All the SSRIs seem to do that. Zoloft, Paxil, Amitriptyline. They make me
happy but I'm dead below the waist.

Mirtazapine worked for me for a while but it pooped out, and Wellbutrin makes
me feel ridiculously amped up. So those are no good.

I'm married, and I've been depressed to varying degrees for years (severely
now), but I don't want to give up my sex life because that's one of the few
things in my life I enjoy.

~~~
Jaruzel
I'm currently on Venlafaxine. Previously I was on Citalopram. The Citalopram
totally killed my sex drive and prevented orgasm, so this time around I asked
for something different. The Venlafaxine slows me right down, and my orgasm
(once I finally get there) is altered somewhat, but I can perform most of the
time. Which for me is enough, YMMV of course.

------
lpgauth
_internet hug_

Trying to understand the reasons behind a suicide is futile. It's usually not
something logical which can make it very hard for rational people to reason
about. It's a disease...

------
tn13
The biggest problem with depression is that it is impossible to explain to
someone who has not felt it. That is why talking to professional is very very
important even if you have doubts.

------
waffl
I've read through almost this entire thread and was wondering if anyone has
advice for someone whose is trying to support a loved one through a fairly
significant depressive episode?

While I imagine that the major benefit comes from personal will within the
depressed individual, does anyone have any positive experience where a loved
one or friend was able to provide support in a meaningful and beneficial way?

~~~
neverknowsbest
(just from personal experience, not a doctor. But below is what people have
done that really improved my quality of life through depressive episodes)

#1 is take care of yourself--- you, the support-giver, should come first; if
you start to get frustrated with caring for the person with depression they'll
sense it and then close off 100%.

#2 bring them out to do things. Not necessary to be over the top happy, just
seeing somebody motivated to do stuff, and willing to take the time to drag me
along.... was great. The world always seemed a lot less bleak at the end of
those days. The activity itself didn't matter at all, so no need to plan
anything grandiose.

#3 after days that you've done something, touch base really quick the next
day. Just a "had fun last night" text or call first thing, doesn't have to
take much time. Just to stop the back-slide of the depressive mind's tendency
to pick apart significant events and turn them vile and negative

#4 Don't _worry_ because that's a negative emotion (easier said than done when
it comes to somebody you care for, I know), because it can cause a lot of
feelings of guilt and burden in the depressed person. Show care with positive
support like frequent check-in's, random visits with food and sundries, etc.

#5 Again, I can't say this enough: take care of _yourself_. Do not burn
yourself out trying to be a 'be all end all' care giver. If you have to step
away for a week, that's better than showing up miserable and resentful. And it
will happen--- it's only natural to feel tired/hopeless/unappreciated/'done'
sometimes, especially if you're supporting somebody with a very long
depression that has nasty/antisocial outward mood side effects (like lashing
out, transient paranoia, antisocial resistance to aid, and such).

I don't know if that'll be helpful at all, but you had no other replies and
I've been the person receiving care/support before. I know it isn't easy, but
it is _always_ appreciated.

------
f_allwein
Lots of good points being made here. I wanted to point out that there are
various non-profit organisations dealing with depression or mental illness.
They (or their websites) are great places to go when you or a loved one
suffers from depression. E.g. (google for more in your area):

UK: [http://www.mind.org.uk](http://www.mind.org.uk),
[http://www.sane.org.uk](http://www.sane.org.uk)

US: [http://www.adaa.org](http://www.adaa.org),
[http://www.freedomfromfear.org](http://www.freedomfromfear.org)

------
autoreleasepool
I have been in and out of depression and obsessive isolation. The one thing
that gets me through the hell that comes with it is my ability to (eventually)
reach out to my friends and family.

If you're ever feeling like you can't get through the dark times, please reach
out to those who care about you. Even if those relationships are purely
online.

It helps to be reminded you're not alone, even when that seems like a trivial
or obvious Sometimes we tend to avoid the simplest and most elegant solutions
because they're not as mentally stimulating -- it's the part of the double
edged sword of an analytical mind. At least that's the case for me.

~~~
depressedfather
I feel completely isolated.

~~~
studentrob
Hey, did you call a therapist? Maybe we can help you find one. Zocdoc looks
like an easy way to make an appointment [1]

You're as important as anyone else in this world. You're no less and no more
important. We're all equals and you deserve a fair shot at happiness just like
everyone else. If you can't do it for you, do it for your daughter. She wants
you to be happy she just does not understand what's going on, just like the
girl in the article. She's better off with you around.

[1] [https://www.zocdoc.com/](https://www.zocdoc.com/)

~~~
a3n
I'd like to know too, did you call? And if you didn't, don't give up, you can
still call. It's so easy to take a minor setback and think "yeah, that's me,
and why bother anyway?" But that's your illness talking.

 _It is worth it to try_. And it's not that hard. Just call.

You are not at all worthless, you're just ill. Unfortunately the nature of
your illness damages your ability to see that. It's one of the most vicious of
cycles.

Look at all the people in this thread who are encouraging you to get help,
many of us suffering from the same illness you have. You're getting a lot of
different advice, but all of it is resting on the idea to take steps, because
it's worth it. Because you're worth it.

------
altotrees
Life can be really hard sometimes, a fact that was lost on me when I was
younger. I surrounded myself with friends who had big goals and dreams,
starting companies, becoming VC's and the like. They claimed they didn't have
time to be depressed, and that they were "killing it" no matter how things
appeared to the outside world. I thought I was wrong to feel down and
hopeless, like I was the only one feeling actual negative feelings on a daily
basis.

A few years later, having lost two of those friends to depression and seeing
others abuse various substances to blunt their feelings, I no longer feel
crazy. I feel smart that I went and got help when it felt unbearable, rather
than try to fight through it. I think American, and tech culture in
particular, are still really hard places to discuss depression and the issues
surrounding it. Thanks for the article, and all these insightful comments.
These things need to be talked about.

------
parr0t
I've been a long time reader of this great news site which gives me a joy to
read everyday but today is the only time I have felt compelled to comment on a
post.

A few years back I had been bottling up a lot of issues and negative thoughts
that had just manifested in my head over time and got worse and worse. I
couldn't think straight, everything was an effort I literally felt like I was
going to feel this way forever. I never considered self-harm and said to
myself that I couldn't live with feeling this way day in and day out. I had
somewhat of a breakdown (I was around 25 years of age living out of home with
my partner) and had to take a week off work. I made the call and ended up
getting an appointment with a psychologist later that week.

I was convinced I was screwed even after half a dozen appointments - mainly
because I was too scared and embarrassed to say what was really bugging me out
of fear of judgement by my psychologist (I know, it's their job). I felt like
absolute garbage day in and day out and felt sorry for myself and feeling like
I deserved better, I let it keep building up and building up and despite going
to these appointments I kept shying away from explaining what thoughts and
memories were upsetting me. One day I walked into an appointment and I was
usually composed and pretty chirpy, this time I just sat down and bawled my
eyes out and realized enough was enough. I explained all the negative thoughts
that had been bugging me and that was the start of turning things around. I
extensively credit my psychologist for helping me get my issues together and
helping me finally get on the path to learning how to deal with these issues
and overcome them.

I thought I was really depressed, when I really had severe anxiety and not
much in terms of what constituted for 'depression' \- I know the two can go
hand in hand and one can be labelled as the other and so on. I kept at it and
over the course of about 30 appointments over several years I was taught
strategies on how to deal with negative thoughts, anxiety and so forth. I was
in a job I didn't like one bit, living out of home with little money and
whilst I was beginning to get on top of my anxiety issues which were dragging
me down so heavily I knew I had to move on professionally.

I reduced my work load to part time, started studying Computer Science at
University (my old job was non IT) which I have absolutely loved from the very
beginning and am about two thirds through my degree. I was lucky enough to get
some part time work as a developer with someone I know who needed a bit of
help which I still do today. Since starting this new job I have felt like
compared to the position I was into a year prior literally nothing could of
gone better for me. I look back at myself two years ago in a job I really did
not enjoy with constant severe anxiety looming over me everyday to the point
where I didn't even have the courage to catch up with some of my closest
friends. It dictated my life but I said enough was enough and I wasn't going
to let it control me anymore.

It's taken me a lot of practice and persistence to be able to control the
flood of negative thoughts that come to me daily and I still on the odd day
struggle pretty bad. Like I mentioned above I haven't even finished my degree
yet but am working as a part time programmer which I could not be more happy
about as it is giving me great experience however I'm incredibly tough on
myself to be as valuable to my employer as possible. Programming is something
that from what I have discovered, experience plays a major part in how well
you can do it - I currently have very little experience but put expectations
on myself that I should be able to work as fast and have code as excellent and
at a the same level of quality as my co-worker who has more years experience
than me. It's an area where my anxiety tries to find a way in to get to me to
drag me down and something that I have to consistently need to keep on-top of
but at the end of the day I'm glad that I am finally doing something I am
truly passionate about.

The main reason I have written this is because I want to encourage people who
are feeling down for an extended period of time to seek help. You may not see
it at the time, and I didn't believe me - but you can feel better. It scares
me to think of where I would be had I not of walked into my psychologists
office a few years back. It's the hardest thing I had ever done but it was the
best thing I have ever done.

I maybe rambled on a bit too much but just wanted to share.

Thanks.

------
studentrob
I haven't seen anyone mention meditation in this thread yet. I just want to
throw that out there. It can help quiet and focus your mind. The book
Mindfulness in Plain English is a good introduction.

------
Skgqie1
A lot of these posts seem to glover over the burden that depression is. To
everyone, not just the sufferer. I say that as someone who suffers from severe
depression, and cares for someone who I honestly believe is dead when I don't
hear from them for a week. It's not a glamorous thing (That we all agree on).
It is a horrible disease, with no completely effective cure. It can strike
multiple times, and has a mortality rate in the double digits. People should
not feel the need to keep quiet. But people should be aware of that difficulty
in dealing with depressed people. I am not saying they've done anything wrong.
Dementia is horrible care-givers. The person is so frustrating, but it's not
their fault.

Depression is an uncomfortable companion for me. I've suffered with it for a
long time. I was first diagnosed when I was 20, but the consensus (from my
obviously fallible memory) is that it began between 12-14. I still have
memories of sitting in my room, singing a song about how no-one loves me, when
I was 10. I am "only" 28 now. I remember feeling confused. I knew mum and dad
loved me; but why did I feel like no-one did? It took me a long time, to
overcome that disconnect. It's maddening. To know, intellectually, that
something is true, but your mind screams at you that it's not.

My mum was diagnosed as being depressed at the age of 25. Was an alcoholic
since the age of 17. She still has it. For her, there is no end in site. She's
had ECT several years ago. It helped, mildly, with the depression. She was
never the same after, and had severe memory problems for a year.

She has cut herself hundreds of times. She is ashamed of it, and doesn't go
outside. She does it because she just wants some expression of how bad she
feels on the inside. A release, an outlet. She takes 5-6 different anti-
depressants, and anti-anxiety medications. She has tried to kill herself 3
times. Each time I've saved her life. The first two, she had cut her wrists
open. The last time, she overdosed on her medication with rum. The last time
was the time she almost succeeded.

I haven't heard from her in two weeks. Which worries me, because it is Easter,
and she hasn't answered all day. No-one else in my family looks out for her.
She did a lot of shit wrong, as a mother, and as a partner. But I know she is
struggling. I'd check up on her physically, but she moved into new government
housing, and didn't give me the address, because she was upset that I called
an ambulance the last three times she cut herself, and didn't want "the drama
of dealing with it again". I tell her things will get better, but I honestly
don't believe they will. I want them too. I hope they do. I try to help as
much as I can. But it's hard to see things getting much better.

It scares me, because I don't want that future. My marriage failed at 24.
Three friends, my parents, and my sister. Those are the only people I've ever
told. Way after the fact. To this day, they all believe I became depressed
after the marriage. It makes sense after all.

The truth is, that I was depressed before I met my then-wife. I used to cry
myself to sleep a lot. I used to feel angry a lot. Tired a lot. But for me, it
was "just life". I just thought that's how things were. It wasn't until I saw
the pain it inflicted on my partner that I sought help. There's a lot of
reasons I am this way, supposedly. Rough upbringing. Bullying, social
isolation, broken marriage of my parents, etc.

My partner found it extremely hard to deal with my need for approval, for
reassurance, to be told I was loved. I eventually got help. She was hostile at
first; she thought the psychologist would blame her. Three months of therapy,
and things got a bit better.

After the relationship began to break down, my depression and anxiety went
absolutely nuclear. Not just sad little moments at home, or a tear here and
there. I would be at work, and start crying, and need to run the toilet to
hide. I would have "episodes". I would just lie on the floor, curled up,
sobbing. Sometimes, if the emotional pain was too much, it was this kind of
horrible combination of screaming, and sobbing.

I normally have a pretty good memory of my internal monologue. When I have
those episodes, there isn't any sense of self. I "remember" my wife kneeling
there, holding me, and moving her mouth, with a strange look on her face. I
still don't know why I was in so much emotional pain that I screamed, and
screamed, and screamed.

I managed to get in check, with some anti-depressants, and psychology
appointments three times a week. I think I was worse. I was so numb. Nothing
was real. Work. Home. Sleep. Cry. Argue. Like some kind of strange, opaque
opaque film, representing my life.

That's when I decided I would kill myself. I still loved my wife dearly, but I
knew we wouldn't work. I knew she wouldn't leave me while I was in such a bad
way. I acted like I was normal, and told her I just didn't love her anymore. I
told her we needed some space. I promised myself I'd do it when she was far
enough removed that she would feel no guilt. I told myself I'd keep the
therapy up, but that was always there. Like a goal.

I actually lost 50kg, from exercising. I was running 10-15km an evening on
weeknights, and 25km every Saturday. I was going to the gym four nights a
week. My diet was better, the house was less of a mess. I was more in touch
with my feelings.

~~~
Skgqie1
But it didn't help. I still wanted to die. I was so tired. This next statement
really sums up what depression has been for me; but no-one seems to "get" it.

Getting out of bed, and putting on my pants, was harder than running a half
marathon. In a very literal sense. It felt like I was overcoming physical
burdens to just function. Routine helped, but I've never "tried" so hard.

Emotionally, I was so numb. I got a huge promotion at work. I did not care. My
great grandfather died. I did not care. A horrible thing to say, but I had
lost the capacity, 90% of the time, to feel meaningful emotions. They were the
only things I missed. But when I had them, they were torment.

I would lie on the floor, crying. For four, maybe five hours each time. But I
yearned for that pain, because I felt alive. Ironic, that I wanted to be alive
until I died. I was still seeing a psychologist, but was not on medication. I
was always honest with her, except for "the plan".

I began to drink a lot. I think I hoped I'd get drunk enough to have the
courage to do it right. Death is still intimidating for me, even when I want
it. It didn't help though. I'd drink 30 or 40 standard drinks, and waste the
day in the shower covered in vomit. I never got to the point I would be while
drunk, so I would just do it sober. I gave it up.

I took a "goodbye trip". To see family and friends. It was the first time they
ever knew something was up. But to them, it was so subtle. Just a quietness of
character. A dimming of the bulb.

Through coincidence, I was back home on a flight on New Years Eve. I was so
certain I'd do it. No plans for elaborate, painless, ways. Just in the shower,
with a kitchen knife and warm water. Hard to mess up too badly, since no-one
would come looking for weeks.

I wrote my letter. I apologised. I asked if people could one day forgive me. I
told them it's not their fault. Got naked, got in the shower, and I had just
begun to cut myself, only shallow, when my phone rang with my dads call tone.
I'm not sure why, but my determination went to dust. I thought of him, and the
pain it would hurt. I told myself, I'd try even harder. I would do anything
short of ECT. I'd go to hospital. I'd take medication. Anything.

My psychologist was going to have me hospitalised, but she said she trusted
me, and was giving me a chance, referred me on to a prominent psychiatrist.
She was against drugs too, but thought I wouldn't get better without them.

I fought for a year and a half. I went through a number of drugs, of different
classes. One looked promising, but the affects went away at lower doses, and I
was hyper aggressive at the higher dose. Eventually though, escitalopram
"worked" best. But I started to feel again. My anxiety slowly got better.

I remember the first time I actually felt "hope". I felt like God. Invincible.
Indestructible. How could I fail with hope? The drug made me "physically"
tired. I had to take a dump every 3 hours. I put on a few kg. But motivation
wise, it made up for it.

I got out of it... I thought. Looking back, I told myself I would never become
like that again. Sound plan...

I met a new lover. She was a pretty nice girl. Didn't work out. Unfortunately,
she said and did some really terrible things at the end. The break-up was a
bit messy, but not extreme. A series of events really triggered off my
anxiety. I lost 5kg in a week because I wasn't eating and stopped running. I
stopped talking to people. I couldn't sleep more than two hours a night, on a
good night. I started getting mouth ulcers.

Then came the inevitable old friend. A lot of my friends who I had told the
first time around, have started getting concerned. It puts burden on them. It
is not something they can just "know about and forget". They make a lot of
effort too, which makes me feel bad, because I just don't care enough a lot of
the time.

I saw myself slipping into a nuclear episode again. I've tried to stave it
off. I'm looking for a new doctor, since I've moved since the previous event.
I'm making myself eat more. I'm making myself talk to people. I'm going to the
gym and running. I'm practicing and applying the techniques I learned in ACT
therapy (And CBT to a lesser extent).

I'm not sure at this stage if I've stopped it. It's too early to tell. I feel
like I'm on the edge of the abyss. It's easy to say it will be ok from the
edge. It's a different world when you're in it.

I've spoken to my sister. To my dad. To friends. For help, for support.
Because I know it's the personally responsible thing to do. But the burden on
them is huge. How guilty would anyone feel, or responsible, if someone decided
to give up on life, despite someone coming to them for help? Cognitively they
would understand, but emotionally it's very different.

~~~
jacobush
Nobody else commented, so I just wanted to say thanks for your story.

------
tonydubs
For the past five years I've found the most meaning in my life through work.
At the cost of abandoning (not burning) bridges with those close to me. That
may seem shallow, but here in the Bay Area I don't believe I'm the only one
who has done this.

Now I'm returning to my roots. Why did I ever give up playing video games with
my friends?

------
Madmallard
If you choose to talk to a therapist, make sure to find an older guy that is
not bought out with the modern medical system. He'll actually help you. The
younger generation is full of shills with pills and not a lot of actual
emotional fill.

~~~
Zeeem
My psychiatrist is in his 30s. This has not been my experience.

------
PaulHoule
A lot of times people who are depressed don't know they are depressed.

For instance, one symptom of depression is physical pains that move around
from place to place. For instance one day your low back hurts, then your legs,
then your shoulders, etc.

------
known
Go to a nearby village and help a farmer during your week end

------
arbre
Try meditation, it got me out of depression after 3 years of pain, seeing a
lot of psychiatrists and taking multiple antidepressants. There is always a
reason why we are depressed. We need to go deep into ourselves to find it,
there is no other way.

~~~
DanBC
Meditation is useful for some people.

It's not useful for everyone, and it's sometimes harmful. The risks of harm
tend to be ignored by people delivering meditation and mindfulness.

> There is always a reason why we are depressed. We need to go deep into
> ourselves to find it, there is no other way.

The evidence from cognitive behavioural therapy suggests this is not always
true. For some (but not all) people there isn't any reason, and it's certainly
not always some buried trauma.

------
sneak
Keeping private medical matters private is prudent in almost all interactions
with strangers.

Ever notice how the POTUS never gets a cold or a flu?

Never, ever talk about your health unless it's good. Period.

~~~
pareci
I've never rated a comment in over a decade, but I rated all of the original
poster's comments up. And I really wish I could rate yours down.

------
known
Take hot water bath and go for one hour walk

~~~
hackaflocka
This is excellent advice. Not surprised you're being downvoted (I upvoted
you). Simplicity doesn't make sense to a lot of people.

------
soheil
I sometimes wonder if cloudy days (today is specially gloomy in SF) is why we
see articles about depression showing up on HN's front-page. [1]

[1] How to Get Out of Bed
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11367331](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11367331))

------
DanBC
I'm often surprised by non-doctors giving medical advice to someone who has a
potentially fatal illness.

It feels really irresponsible to me. As irresponsible as telling a cancer
patient to try carrots.

Although I accept that you're showing compassion, and that's important. And
that you're not being judgemental. And that you have some evidence that
exercise works to treat depression - you're not talking obvious nonsense.
(Although that evidence isn't as strong as you think it is, especially for
major depression.)

~~~
shanusmagnus
The evidence for physical activity being good for just about every ailment
under the sun is about as incontrovertible as the evidence for water being
wet. Considering that it's vitally important, often ignored, devoid of
negative side effects, and free to implement, I think you're the one being
irresponsible.

~~~
DanBC
Here we have a person expressing psychologic pain. And then another person,
with no medical training and no psychologic training dismisses any possible
cause of that pain and says "go for a jog". It's not a helpful way to give
that advice. And it might not be useful advice.

> The evidence for physical activity being good for just about every ailment
> under the sun is about as incontrovertible

How do you explain the meta-analyses that show weak results for exercise?

[http://www.cochrane.org/CD004366/DEPRESSN_exercise-for-
depre...](http://www.cochrane.org/CD004366/DEPRESSN_exercise-for-depression)

> However, it is not clear if research actually shows that exercise is an
> effective treatment for depression.

> Exercise is moderately more effective than no therapy for reducing symptoms
> of depression.

> Exercise is no more effective than antidepressants for reducing symptoms of
> depression, although this conclusion is based on a small number of studies.

> Exercise is no more effective than psychological therapies for reducing
> symptoms of depression, although this conclusion is based on small number of
> studies.

> The reviewers also note that when only high-quality studies were included,
> the difference between exercise and no therapy is less conclusive.

> The evidence about whether exercise for depression improves quality of life
> is inconclusive.

~~~
forgetsusername
What is there to explain?

From your post it looks like exercise can have positive effects on depression.
I haven't read anywhere here that it's the _only_ solution. But it's sometimes
as effective as other known treatments (according to your own link) and it's
cheap and easy to implement.

Anti-depressants and therapy don't work for everyone, either.

There are people in this thread crying for help. They are looking for advice.
Yes, going to see a doctor should be at the top of your list. But let's not
pretend the medical system is perfect, or that we all live in San Francisico
with a ton of progressively thinking doctors. There's still a stigma with
mental health, even in the medical field.

~~~
DanBC
> Anti-depressants and therapy don't work for everyone, either.

No, they don't. But they are more likely to work than exercise, and they're
easier to try than exercise. The problem with recommending exercise is that
it's not effective for most people, and can increase feelings of hopelessness
and despair in people who try it but who see no effect. This makes it harder
for them to seek help from a qualified professional. It also requires
considerable effort - 30 minutes of exercise 5 times a week isn't something
that most people with a severe depression can do. (And here the recommendation
was more than that! 30 minutes a day.)

Here the suggestion was not "try exercise on top of seeing a doctor", the
suggestion was "try exercise".

Don't forget that suicide is a leading cause of death (second leading cause of
death in US males aged between 13 and 35
[http://www.cdc.gov/men/lcod/](http://www.cdc.gov/men/lcod/) ) so there's a
risk of real harm here.

If people are going to give unsolicited medical advice to someone with a
potentially fatal illness they should probably spend a bit of time to see if
there's any evidence to support their advice, or they should make it much
clearer that they're sharing their anecdotal experience in an attempt to
empathise.

Every single time depression is mentioned on HN someone will say "try
exercise".

It's a meme that needs to end because it's potentially harmful, mostly not
helpful, and it can feel really dismissive to people with depression.

~~~
shanusmagnus
A reasonable person will not hear the suggestion "try exercise" and infer that
since "drink water" was not mentioned, that they ought to stop drinking water.

Unless you have some weird heart condition, or are attached to an IV pole, or
are not subject to the laws of gravity and therefore are in danger of floating
off into space should you leave your apartment, exercise will probably not
hurt you, and may possibly create a positive change in your circumstances,
whatever they happen to be[1].

[1] I trust the majority of HN readers to figure out when disclaimers apply.

