
Show HN: Wrote book that builds a SaaS boilerplate. Save weeks on side projects - tima101
https://builderbook.org/book
======
hoistbypetard
The price is expensive, but not eye-wateringly so. The non-preorder price gets
closer to eye-watering territory, but it’s still in the range of things I’d
buy if I was confident they’d save me quite a bit of time.

Your site does not inspire that confidence so far. Here are some things that
leave me disinclined to purchase your book even though I consider the price
reasonable and am interested in the topic:

1\. I don’t know who you or your co-author are, and I don’t know of any SaaS
you’ve built that I’ve used or contemplated using. Have I used something
you’ve made? If so, tell me!

2\. Show me an example of the SaaS that the book teaches me to build. If I
could experience what result I might produce, it’s easier to spend the money
to learn how.

3\. In light of points (1) and (2) not being satisfied, your terms of purchase
are really scary. I can’t download a copy of the book to keep? You can revoke
my access at any time? No refunds? I know I can reliably get my credit card
company to issue a chargeback within a month or two if something’s not as
promised, but I tend to read this kind of content more slowly than that. I
want to make sure that I can continue to have it as I make my way through it
at my own pace.

I hope none of that sounds like hostile feedback. It’s not... I’m someone
who’s actively looking for this kind of resource. The price itself isn’t a
problem, except that I can’t see what I’m getting, I don’t know your work well
enough to know I’ll find this work useful, and you say you won’t offer a
refund if I don’t find it useful. Plus you say you might revoke my online
access and refuse to offer offline access.

~~~
tima101
Thanks for feedback.

Each chapter has ample of free excerpt (10-20% of total content), all code is
public under MIT license: [https://github.com/async-
labs/saas](https://github.com/async-labs/saas)

This worked well for us so far. We received less than 10 refund requests out
of 850 purchases. Not sure what else to add here.

Code speaks for itself, I am just no-name guy in the cabin in the middle of
the forest, with hotspot and generator. I have early-stage SaaS business with
few paying customers but nothing to brag about it: [https://async-
await.com](https://async-await.com)

If I were you I would not buy this book. At least one author is not a
celebrity =)

~~~
hoistbypetard
I saw the code. If I knew enough to judge whether the book was worth
purchasing just by reading the code, I wouldn’t need to buy the book.

(I’m glad to hear you’re not receiving many refund requests. Are you refunding
those requests you receive? The terms page makes it look as though you are
not. That would be the relevant thing to add there, relative to my questions.)

The code might speak for itself if I were already an expert. I’m not. I’m a
good programmer who wants to learn more about the details of building a
service offering, and I’m trying to figure out how effectively your book will
teach me what I want.

The link to your SaaS business is part of what I was asking about. Is there a
way for me to explore that without paying to see what it’s all about? Is that
a typical example of what the book is helping me build?

> If I were you I would not buy this book. At least one author is not a
> celebrity =)

I’m smiling at that, but it’s not at all what I meant when I said I don’t know
who you are. I didn’t mean I literally need to know who you are; I meant I was
hoping to see an example of the end state your book is purporting to guide me
towards. SaaS is kind of a big space.

I’m really glad it’s working well for you so far. I hope that continues, and a
cabin in the middle of the forest with a hotspot and generator sounds like a
great place!

~~~
tima101
Sorry if I misunderstood. I cannot and I don't want to convince every
potential buyer individually to buy a book. Imagine a farmer's market, you ask
how much is a bundle of garlic, seller says $20, you don't like a price or
seller and you move on.

\---

I see many are unhappy about price. How much time would you need to build
subscription API with Stripe in your SaaS project? Few hours at least if you
are good and know where to look. How much is your time worth, $50 an hour? So
here you go $100-$200 saved. The book paid itself. And that's just one feature
out of few dozen.

~~~
hoistbypetard
I totally get that. And I'm not asking you to argue with me about the price
for a head of garlic. You're saying "I wrote a book on how to build a
boilerplate SaaS application." I'm thinking "I have a couple application ideas
I'd like to sell as services. I wonder if this book could help me. Are my
ideas like what this author has built before?" And I'm finding nothing to
guide me on your page.

For example, one of the things the application I'm imagining needs to do is
send people text messages to remind them about appointments. That feels like a
very "boilerplate SaaS" thing. But I can't tell if that's part of what you're
selling here or not.

For another example, my app would need to send mobile push notifications. That
also feels like boilerplate SaaS and I can't tell if your book covers it or
not. It could break either way based on the outlines you list.

Your terms page just says "(5) We use Stripe to securely process payments. We
do not offer refunds."

If I spent $200 on your book and learned what I wanted, it'd feel like a
wonderful purchase. If I spent $200 and it didn't teach me the things I was
seeking to learn, it'd feel like a terrible purchase. Since I don't want a
refund to enter the picture anywhere, I'm trying to figure that out in advance
:)

I apologize if this discussion is unwelcome. I'm mostly engaging it because I
am actively seeking to purchase reading material on this specific topic, so
talking about it in detail seems relevant and helpful here, as you are, at
least superficially, seeking to sell what I am seeking to purchase.

------
ablekh
I would not consider this project a proper SaaS boilerplate. It is a Web
application boilerplate and maybe a good one, but not SaaS.

 _SaaS implies multi-tenancy_ and your project does not seem to offer support
for that.

Irrespective to that, your book's regular price IMO is too high - similar
books/tutorials/courses (targeting various stacks) can be found for as low as
$59.

~~~
elorm
I'm not OP, but it's boldly indicated that the book will be kept up to date
and it will be up to the author to continuously provide new content on
breaking changes or whatever happens to this stack in the future. $99 seems
appropriate to me

~~~
ablekh
A promise to keep a project up-to-date does not imply a promise to add a
significant feature, such as multi-tenancy support (assuming that it's
missing, that is). Re: price - $99 is pre-order price; by "regular" I referred
to post-pre-order price of $199.

------
moltar
Hard pass on anything that involves Mongo.

~~~
chaostheory
You beat me to it. Maybe early on it made sense but not now, especially if
you’re using typescript. Not keen on vanilla node either. Criticism aside,
they were able to finish writing a book. That’s something.

~~~
InsOp
what's the problem with mongo? which document database would be better if
you'd use typescript? I'm using mongo with typegoose in development and I'm
happy with it. I'm open to better alternatives

~~~
chaostheory
1\. You end up doing more work in the end with mongo. Instead of SQL, you have
to reinvent the wheel with new logic 2\. It's not as reliable as a relational
database 3\. There are several ORMs in node that make using databases even
easier like typeorm 4\. A lot of databases support JSON now 5\. Databases
still perform better than Mongo in general 6\. If you really need NoSQL,
Cassandra tends to be better imo

~~~
joedrumgoole
1\. Debatable, but my (biased) experience is the ease of change in an agile
project favours databases with a flexible schema.

2\. Reliability is not a pure function of whether you use SOL or NoSQL

3\. ORMs hide but do not remove the need for schema management in SQL dbs.
They often create more problems than they solve.

4\. SQL databases support JSON because it my accurately reflects the
programming model that programmers want to use. This is making an argument for
NoSQL.

5\. Which NoSQL you use is a matter of personal choice in many cases. I prefer
MongoDB (I would say that though, I work there). Cassandra has some challenges
as it is eventually consistent by design (and default). MongoDB is strongly
consistent by design (and default) which makes reasoning about your programs
easier.

~~~
chaostheory
1\. As cludgy as SQL is, having to reimplement basic SQL queries ala
reinventing wheels isn't very smart imo. It's worse than having an inflexible
schema

2\. I was only referring to mongo and not to NoSQL as a whole. Cassandra
worked just as a advertised.

3\. You don't have to use an ORM with a relational database just as you don't
have to for mongo. There are other alternatives

4\. JSON is no longer an advantage for NoSQL since it's supported by
relational databases. It also means that relational databases as a whole can
adapt to the market.

5\. Which NoSQL you use and for what purpose matters, and it's not just
"personal choice". NoSQL in general aren't the generic swiss army knives that
relational DBs are. Each NoSQL project has different use cases, which in turn
also have different levels of reliability and performance.

------
polishdude20
You guys use stripe for payments in the book but what about taxes? I feel a
good addition to your book would be to mention Paddle as they operate as a
merchant of record so taxes are accounted for.

~~~
edoceo
And TaxJar, Avalara, etc

------
abarrettwilsdon
I was prepared to buy this and then I sorta stumbled across the Builder Book

They look very similar? But they're different? According to the docs this one
is more focused on advanced patterns? Does a person need to buy the first to
get value from the second?

Very confusing UX IMO

~~~
tima101
I think you don't need to buy first book to understand second book if you
already built a simple web application with this or similar stack.

Later this month I plan to somewhat re-write first book, many packages push
changes often (Next.js and Material-UI) plus many explanations can be improved
and I need to do better job with diagrams. First book, Builder Book, is either
for junior developer or someone who wants to save time to learn this
particular stack.

I hope this helps.

------
qwerty456127
Perhaps it's a great book but the price is crazy.

~~~
tima101
Co-author here. We find it to be ok price for us.

\- Quantitative evidence, we have over 150+ pre-orders in the last 3 month
which is more than good for us. No advertising, no social media. We sold first
book 700 times. So that's 100-120 people out of 700 who pre-ordered second
book.

\- Qualitative evidence. We have way more polite customers after raising price
in the past ($49 -> $99) for our first book. More polite emails, more feedback
and less emails asking for support.

EDIT: My co-author says that we have evidence that higher percentage of people
who bought the book at higher price point actually read it.

PS: Price will go to $199 on Sunday midnight PST, that's when pre-order period
ends.

~~~
qwerty456127
> More polite emails, more feedback and less emails asking for support.

Obviously. If I were to run a restaurant I would rather choose/open as
expensive as I could so I wouldn't have to deal with people without proper
manners and education sufficient to appreciate my fine culinary skills /semi-
sarcastic

By the way. Here had already been some posts by free software authors
devastated by rude and ignorant people demanding support and/or bullying them
by e-mail. I find it very important for all the authors (regardless of whether
they code/write for free or for serious money) to learn to just ignore
(without any emotional response) the correspondence from this kind of people.
You don't alienate them this way, they already got what they are eligible for
for free or for their money, personal support should be a premium, for nice
people only :-) Yet, there actually are many nice people for whom $100 (let
alone $200) per book is a way too much. Some of them even living in the US,
not necessarily in an utterly poor country.

~~~
ianai
Maybe a rent option?

~~~
qwerty456127
No, the idea of rental of digital content is artificial and plain ridiculous,
as is the idea of dividing the Internet into countries.

~~~
ianai
Except that textbook rentals have been a thing since before the internet.

~~~
qwerty456127
Indeed. That was before the Internet. Many things were before something yet
would look bizarre (which doesn't necessarily imply completely impossible)
today.

~~~
ianai
Actually textbook rentals are probably even more used now with higher costing
textbooks. Yes you can still rent textbooks.

~~~
qwerty456127
Sure, this is a well-known problem. Sooner or later this bullshit business
model will be eliminated.

------
AlchemistCamp
I can't see the two links above "Boilerplate", "Reviews" and "Log in" except
for a few pixels so I know there's some content hidden at the top. My browser
is about 1/2 the width of a 1080p desktop.

------
compscistd
Small nitpick, but the hamburger menu bar on the top right is unresponsive on
Safari (iPhone 11 Pro iOS 13.6)

~~~
ta17711771
Abandon the hamburger menu.

Many blue collar users have no idea it exists, and it cripples your app for
that percentage of users.

~~~
fibbery
Probably not too many blue collar users interested in building a SaaS product,
though.

~~~
ta17711771
Tons interested in using them - if they're "easy" and don't "get in my way"!

------
throw74968263
The responsive design is not encouraging. The page does not shrink to the size
of my screen, text is overlapping and it generally looks slapped together
without a concrete methodology. For two hundred dollars I don’t even get to
own the book? Yikes.

------
nonosql
Would you consider doing an addendum that uses PostgreSQL instead of MongoDB?

I've been looking for something exactly like your book, but I need to use a
SQL database.

~~~
tima101
I can't promise since I don't know how much time it would take. I plan to
start partially re-writing our first book (Build Book) later this month plus a
new feature for Async. So no time really in the near future.

Is `sequelize` a good library to use for PostgresSQL?

~~~
enuchi
It is a big pain in the butt but it is definitely the standard/most popular. I
can't imagine boilerplate using another ORM.

~~~
InsOp
heard of typeORM?

~~~
enuchi
Actually hadn't heard of it. It has about half the downloads of sequelize but
really nice to hear there's a popular alternative. Will check it out for the
next project.

------
maps7
Can you clarify if the reviewers paid full price or not?

~~~
tima101
Reviewers bought book at the full price of the book __at the time __.

------
thesimon
Do we go to 25k LOC of our own code or including libs?

If the first, I guess my side-projects were too small if they need 25k LOC
just for the boilerplate.

~~~
tima101
I laughed hard.

Your own code.

Yes, the name "boilerplate" is deceiving here. Not sure where to draw the
line. This boilerplate does have some features - websocket with rooms, working
with Markdown, S3 file uplod, API Gateway with AWS Lambda, webhook from Stripe
and many more.

Is there name for boilerplate with "popular" features?

The book's code is actually free and hosted here:

[https://github.com/async-
labs/saas/tree/master/book](https://github.com/async-
labs/saas/tree/master/book)

We charge for book's content which is bunch of explanations and diagrams.

~~~
edoceo
Boilerplate + Features I've heard called Skeleton.

------
brokenbutton
For me, the 'Pre-order book for $99' button is un-responsive. Latest Chrome +
incognito

~~~
tima101
Wow weird. Works for me but web app is slow now and I don't think it is a good
idea to redeploy right now.

After clicking button, you should be asked to log in and then redirected to
checkout page hosted by Stripe. Would you try later again? You can also email
us if you prefer email, at team@builderbook.org

~~~
searchableguy
I like that you put the buy button inside the content of the book but you
should also put a straightforward buy button on the site and add some fluff on
the front page.

------
natrik
How do you ensure 1 person does not buy the book and resell for cheaper or
distribute for free?

------
spanhandler
Huh. I was hoping this would be about everything _except_ building the
product.

