
Casper went to war with popular mattress review site, then financed its takeover - jsm386
https://www.recode.net/2017/9/23/13153814/casper-sleepopolis-lawsuits-mattress-reviews
======
hurricanesugar
I’m fascinated by this story. I was searching for a new mattress months ago. I
found a casper.com case study from a web designer, which piqued my interest in
a Casper mattress. After some research, I found sleepopolis.com. The site
owner reviewed a dozen mattresses and his opinion was that Casper rated lower
than its competitors, like Leesa, especially for side sleepers like me.

Later, the site owner mentioned he was in a legal battle with Casper and fully
intended on going to war until the end. It was all over his site, blog posts
and everything.

I was ready to buy a couple weeks ago so I checked sleepopolis.com again to
check in and make a final decision. His site had been sold, all his posts
about the legal stuff were gone and I remember feeling like the valuable
“human-perspective” opinions of the writer were gone.

I would love to hear the perspective of the original Sleepopolis writer/owner
- he built a valuable thing. Likely his deal prevents him from ever speaking
about it publicly.

Side note: I bought a Leesa and it’s very firm compared to the W bed I bought
a decade ago. It’s a few hundred dollars cheaper but we will probably return
it before 100 days and buy W again.

~~~
frankacter
Here is the original motivation:

[https://ideamensch.com/derek-hales/](https://ideamensch.com/derek-hales/)

Here is a cache of his perspective:

[https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:F3VoYT...](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:F3VoYTa0IA0J:https://www.honestmattressreviews.com/casper-
buys-sleepopolis-number-1-paid-affiliate-site/+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=tw)

“Casper filed the lawsuit against me in April, 2016, on the same day that it
sued two other websites that review mattresses. The suit makes a number of
different allegations, but they are primarily focused on my Casper mattress
reviews and how I inform my readers about referral links. I am currently
fighting the lawsuit and pushing for it to be dismissed with prejudice.

It is my opinion that this lawsuit is nothing more than an attempt to silence
my voice and infringe my first amendment right. When my lawyer asked Casper
what it would take to resolve the case, Casper’s settlement demand was that I
take down my reviews of Casper’s mattress and never write about Casper again.
I don’t think Casper is concerned about my referral link disclosures at all –
they just don’t like criticism of their product.”

~~~
SOLAR_FIELDS
I remember reading about this when it happened. The owner of Sleepopolis was
down to fight, so it’s quite sad that it ended this way. We may be the wiser,
but the average consumer will never know that any of this happened.

I’m rather sad that the owner sold the blog, likely knowing where it was
going, but when you are embroiled in a legal battle like this and have the
option to take a decent paycheck and have it all end, I can see why they took
it. I can sit here from afar and say that I would have told them “no, fuck
you” and fought to the bitter end, but who can truly say they would do that
until actually presented with such a decision?

------
vvpan
I'll diverge from the main topic here for a moment. When I moved to the US I
was puzzled to discover that there're stores that specialize in mattresses.
Later it became apparent that US has, what seems to me, a bizarre fascination
with mattresses. In my home-country (and I think many other countries) most
people grew up sleeping on thin cotton-filled mattresses and the idea of
mattress brands and "technology" just sounds preposterous. It seems like
mattress firms have been able to reshape how a whole populace thinks about
what elsewhere is a comparatively straight-forward product. Does a person
really need hi-tech space-technology memory foam for a thousand dollars to
sleep on? This study for example suggests that not:
[http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/11198791](http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/11198791)

~~~
JBlue42
You might have noticed Americans are obsessed with technological solutionism,
whether it's the form of products or pills. There's a cure for anything.

~~~
TeMPOraL
I think that's unfair towards technology, which is our primary and - I dare to
say - only tool for solving problems[0].

What Americans, and other Western cultures, have a problem with is an
obsession with _consumptionism_ \- the belief that you can always _buy_ a
solution for everything, the belief that the best solution comes from those
who advertise most, the belief that they even _care_ about you solving your
problem. The gullibility to buy "space-tech" widgets with "new QuantumPower
formula" that is obvious bullshit, from people who obviously have zero
incentive to help you, and all the incentives to take your money.

\--

[0] - I mean, what else is there? Magic? Hoping for divine intervention?
Pretending a problem doesn't exist?

~~~
jhbadger
You are conflating science and technology. For example, people want to get a
new mattress because they are having problems sleeping at night. Yes, you can
try to find a more technologically advanced mattress and hope it solves your
problem, or you can exercise more -- which has been shown to reduce insomnia
in scientific tests.

~~~
leadingthenet
Or you can do both. Sure, the mattress might only marginally increase your
quality of sleep, but if the price exceeds the usefulness you get out of it,
I'm not sure what the issue is. We spend a third of our time sleeping, after
all. Might as well make the most of it.

------
stareatgoats
I don't understand this. Large parts of the review business doesn't seem to
abide by common ethical standards. Paid adverts are deceptively presented as
objective reviews in a myriad ways. Is it even legal?

~~~
dawnerd
Nope not legal but the FTC/others are really bad at enforcing it. Look at all
the brand “embassadors” out there promoting products on personal accounts and
trying to hide their affiliation as much as possible.

~~~
freehunter
Which makes it really hard for people who actually enjoy the products to talk
about them. If I mention any brand name in my comments, it seems about 40%-50%
of the time I'll get someone accusing me of being paid to mention the name.
Word of mouth is being ruined by advertisers who don't know what word of mouth
actually means.

~~~
resu_nimda
To be fair, publishing something online is not quite the same as traditional
word of mouth, which is shared between friends that know and trust each other.
It's a lot harder to discern the biases and motives behind a post from an
unknown person on the internet.

Brought to you by Carl's Jr.

~~~
trapperkeeper74
$ecretary of $tate ;)

------
SamReidHughes
I got a Casper mattress when they were new and liked it a lot. But recently I
had another occasion to buy a mattress — to my dismay, upon doing some
research I found out they bought out a review site and they’d also increased
prices and swapped out latex with cheaper materials. So I went with a less
expensive Leesa mattress this time around and I sleep just as well as before.

~~~
TheGorramBatman
Was this Leesa to replace the Casper? If so, that's a tiny amount of time for
it to last.

~~~
SamReidHughes
No, I donated the Casper to a friend when I moved.

------
mavhc
[http://freakonomics.com/podcast/mattress-store-
bubble/](http://freakonomics.com/podcast/mattress-store-bubble/) mentions that
a mattress store only has to sell 1 mattress per day to be profitable, now
that's a profit margin.

------
erentz
I recently went bought a Casper. I didn't like it. It gave me a sore back and
neck and didn't get any better until I switched. So next I ordered a Leesa.
But that had the strong chemical smell. And I left it unpacked in a room with
ventilation for two weeks and the smell didn't stop. Then I ordered a Tuft and
Needle, and despite being the cheapest of the three (I think?) it had no odor
issues and was surprisingly the more comfortable. I'm very happy with it. The
return on the other two mattresses was completely painless and easy, so I
highly recommend taking advantage of their 90-100 day trials.

~~~
martin_
Curious: Did you consider the Purple? I tend to get pretty hot at night (no
AC) and that one seems to boast the best marketing jargon with regards to
cooling. Can you speak to the breathability of the others you've tried?

~~~
TheGorramBatman
I'm in the market for a new mattress, and Purple has great advertising. But as
far as I've seen in reviews, it hasn't lived up to the hype. That being
said...
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Mattress/comments/69yukn/purple_mat...](https://www.reddit.com/r/Mattress/comments/69yukn/purple_mattress_suing_reviewer/)

~~~
kemiller
I have one and love it, fwiw.

~~~
yroc92
My wife and I also love our king sized purple.

------
frou_dh
I bet there are plenty of people Googling specifically for coupon codes and
then lifting them off of review sites like Sleepopolis without even reading
the review. In that situation it does not even matter how favourable the
review is, just that the site has good SEO.

If you find a substantial seeming coupon that's valid then that's a major
positive feeling that encourages completing the purchase.

------
hourislate
You can buy a whole shipping container of Memory Foam mattresses like the
Casper kind for about $200/Queen, $100/twin, $250/King from China. Log on to
Import Genius and you can find all kinds of excellent suppliers. In Canada
they get them in and wholesale them out. They typically sell them for about
$400 for a Queen. I have one in my guest room. Doesn't smell, is comfortable
if you like memory foam. My guests so far like it. I like to sleep on
individual pocket mattresses (traditional).

Anyway, the other mattresses I bought for my dwelling in Toronto was from
Queensway Mattress Warehouse across from Ikea in Etobicoke. Double size that
is completely organic cotton with individual coils with a thick pillow top and
box spring for $600 CAD. It is the best mattress I have eve purchases in my
life.

My primary dwelling in DFW has mattresses that cost 3 times as much and are
half as comfortable. I have come to realize that there are only 2 or 3
companies that sell mattresses in the USA and that is why they are so
expensive. Total ripoff in America when it comes to mattresses.

Casper doesn't seem like anything special since anyone can buy from China and
mark it up and sell it in a market like the US for a big profit since there is
no competition really.

Casper just has good marketing.

~~~
phonon
You don't have to go that far.

[http://www.thefoamfactory.com/mattress/memorymattress.html](http://www.thefoamfactory.com/mattress/memorymattress.html)

Will sell you the foam to size, as a mattress or a topper, in different
densities, etc.

I've bought their memory foam mattresses and latex toppers, I thought they
were fine.

------
dpflan
I like how the final remarks so clearly show the shift in perspective, review
and affiliate marketing after the Casper influence. Many of these on-demand
mattress companies had 30-day return policies: has any one tried and returned
such a mattress? My suspicion is that the large unwieldy-mess of the mattress
suppresses ability for the customer to return, so the police is great on
paper, but then you end up stuck with the mattress and settle?

~~~
grzm
From what I've read, the companies have done a lot to make this as
frictionless as possible by picking up the mattresses rather than requiring
the customer to package and ship them themselves if necessary. Here are two
I'm aware of:

Casper: "we’ll send a courier over to remove the product from your home and
either donate it to a local charity or have it recycled."
([https://casper.com/faqs/returns-exchanges/tell-me-more-
about...](https://casper.com/faqs/returns-exchanges/tell-me-more-about-
the-100-night-trial))

Tuft & Needle: "Instead of shipping it back to us, we'll work together with
you to donate the mattress to a local charity or non-profit organization.
Upload or email us a scanned or photographed copy of your donation receipt and
we'll process your full refund. If no charity is available nearby for
donation, we'll arrange a 3rd party pickup for the mattress."
([https://www.tuftandneedle.com/faq/#category:3](https://www.tuftandneedle.com/faq/#category:3))

------
naner
As someone who grew up with the web, it feels odd that I distrust all of these
direct-to-consumer product sites by default. Mattresses, underwear, watches,
shaving equipment, etc. It all feels like a gimmick.

------
ardit33
I have one right now, (I bought the mid level one) and I don't like it. Not
comfortable on the long run and it seems it is actually smaller (by one inch
in both sides and length) than my older mattress. If you are tall it can be a
problem.

Good marketing, not so great of a product.

------
_JamesA_
I bought a high-end Stearns and Foster 15+ years ago from a department store
and it's about due for a replacement. It was expensive and worth it.

Now it seems the market is all about overpriced mattress stores with sleazy
salesmen or start-ups selling fabric covered foam.

~~~
spaceisballer
I recently bought the same brand after the Leesa didn’t work out. Tried out a
lot of beds and the Sterns and Foster is working out, seemed too pricey but
it’s fine. There just doesn’t seem to be enough support for me in an all foam
mattress. It’s a bummer because going to a mattress store is a complete and
utter hassle, just like car salespeople. They use the same tactics and I want
none of it. And you hear the sales people say thing like “Well beds haven’t
changed much however the sleep science has come a long way.” What the hell are
you talking about. So I went in the store, tested out mattresses and then left
and priced them online. Called them back and beat them up on the price and
bought it.

------
TheKarateKid
The FTC should treat sites which offer reviews and have affiliate links the
same way they do as celebrity endorsements on social media: They should be
required to disclose that, and fine those who don't.

~~~
mintplant
This is already the case.

~~~
TheKarateKid
If it was, this article wouldn't be relevant. Many sites feature affiliate
links but don't state they are receiving commission.

~~~
DanBC
...and if they're reported to FTC action will be taken.

[https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-
center/guidance/nat...](https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-
center/guidance/native-advertising-guide-businesses)

[https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-
center/guidance/ftc...](https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-
center/guidance/ftcs-endorsement-guides-what-people-are-asking)

------
gexla
Does anyone sleep on a hard surface? I generally don't, but when I get a
migraine, I can't stand to sleep on a soft surface. I also can't deal with
pillows. Maybe the reason is that I can put my body in the exact position I
want without any give or movement. When I don't have a migraine, I sleep on a
thin foam, but I don't mind hard surfaces with a blanket covering.

------
subwayclub
I invested in a Rumpl blanket and eventually took to putting that on the
carpet, a smaller blanket to support the head, and one top cover. The Rumpl is
designed to be of a similar quality to a sleeping bag but easier to spread and
wash. It's an "as if perpetually travelling" mindset.

~~~
jpeg_hero
Dude, are you recommending we sleep on the floor?

------
pcmaffey
For anyone reading this interested in mattresses, I highly recommend natural
latex. It's pricey, but 7 years and 17k+ hours of use later, it's still in
near impeccable condition, sleeps perfectly (I got the firm) and is easily the
best $2k investment I've ever made.

~~~
askvictor
Except when it gets hot. Latex holds heat like a brick; if you haven't got air
conditioning and live somewhere where it gets warm, stay well clear of latex.

------
bearcobra
One of the reasons I trust the reviews on The Wirecutter/Sweethome is because
they are pretty up front with disclosing they get paid via affiliate links. I
don't know how these sites built up enough trust to influence people's
purchasing decisions.

------
markbnj
We bought a Costco Novaform Serafina 14" about six months ago, unpacked it and
let it pop for a few days, and its been the most comfortable bed we've owned.

~~~
bigtex
My wife and I really enjoyed our Novaform when we first got it however it has
developed a lump in the middle where we usually don't sleep so it bothers the
wife. We will be in the market for a new one soon.

------
stuaxo
How do you even buy non memory foam these days?

I really don't understand the benefit - if you ever move in your sleep then
you will be uncomfortable.

~~~
overcast
There are hybrid mattresses that give you strengths of both. Basically foam
wrapped coils. So you still get the nice spring action for sex, but for
sleeping it conforms to your body, and doesn't wake your partner. Ordered
Saatva mattress, and it's by FAR the best mattress I've ever slept on. Organic
cotton, no horrible gas smell, no overheating like full foam, eco friendly
construction. The thing is magical.

$1027 delivered + removal of old mattress.

[https://www.saatvamattress.com/the-
mattresses.html](https://www.saatvamattress.com/the-mattresses.html)

~~~
joering2
Seems like a decent matress but the reviews page were somewhat suspicious.
12,000 reviews most 5 stars and first time ever I found a website where each
review is professionally written - with nice grammar, punctuation, full
sentences, few nicely worded paragraphs. Most start with "client" fear of
buying online and ends with full relief upon sleeping on it first night.

~~~
overcast
No doubt a lot of reviews are nonsense, you'll find that anywhere though.
Seriously good mattress, especially for $1000 though.

------
coldcode
I bought a Zinus Memory Foam Mattress recently on Amazon for a 1/3 of the
price of Casper. Most comfy I've ever slept on. Not sure why one would pay 3x
the price.

~~~
gnicholas
My general feeling is that two mattresses might feel the same at first, but
they could age differently.

I don't know if this is the case here, and it's difficult to assess this even
with side-by-side testing in a showroom. What you really need is years worth
of data from genuine reviews.

As this article indicates, genuine reviews are hard to come by.

------
gwern
So what were the 3? I only see Sleepopolis named.

~~~
ringaroundthetx
I know a guy that offered X service, and also registered a ton of the "is X
service a scam" websites

great SEO at the time, probably still is.

the moral of the story is that this article is probably affiliate marketing
for sleepopolis and leveraged buyouts

------
dogruck
It amuses me that many of the informal reviews and attestations in the
comments echo the mattress sales pitch. Also buyers-bias.

I'm not saying anything is untoward.

I'm just saying that when someone mentions how many hours they slept on a
mattress I can immediately see a sales rep or marketer pattering. Also reminds
me of when audiophiles talk about their kit.

~~~
tinus_hn
Also, how can a store have a policy where you destroy the item and get your
money back, without the price being a complete and utter scam with markup
that’s through the roof?

