
What I’ve learned about SEO (2018) - romain_g
https://salon.thefamily.co/the-google-seo-bible-everything-a-startup-needs-to-know-a60dbac2d060
======
emerongi
The real SEO is getting backlinks. They dominate every other aspect. Getting a
high rank through "natural" SEO is really hard.

I know someone who makes $12MM/year from high-ranking websites in extremely
competitive keywords... and it's all about peddling links, really. The first
page of results rarely has any correlation with quality (of
information/product) and more than likely the correlation is actually
negative. You will find content written by non-experts who mostly just
summarize Wikipedia articles, but littered with unimportant info to hit
keywords. Searching for a product? First page will be dominated by whoever has
more $$.

I grew up with Google and it really feels like it was a different time back
then. I Googled "how to make a website" as a teenager, found out about PHP and
started studying PHP documentation. From there I expanded into other languages
and eventually built a career. Today you Google "how to make a website" and
you will be guided through a WordPress installation on a hosting website with
a $5 monthly subscription. That's literally a website by the guy I mentioned
making $12MM/year - he takes a cut from each referral.

~~~
dclusin
Any thoughts on [https://millionshort.com](https://millionshort.com) ? I've
seen it mentioned here. I've thought about using it for stuff, but most of my
searches are programming queries which google is actually really good at. It's
noticeably better than DDG for programming because it usually infers correctly
which language I'm talking about. But as you said, perhaps not so good for
PHP? Also I use an ad blocker, so perhaps I'm not seeing what you're seeing.

~~~
emerongi
It doesn't help much. Most notably, it even removes credible sites like
Wikipedia.

Programming queries are a completely different thing. I'm talking about
queries like "plumber in X", "build website", "which laptop to use" etc -
queries where there's a very direct path from search to money being spent.
Those queries are completely littered, you can just skip 10 pages and maybe
you will find some actual professionals or enthusiasts with actual
information.

~~~
Jommi
>Those queries are completely littered, you can just skip 10 pages and maybe
you will find some actual professionals or enthusiasts with actual
information.

Isn't the whole point of the linked website to do this?

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seibelj
Use keyword search tool to find searches that have no high quality results.
Then write a blog post for that topic and post the link casually on Reddit
comments, twitter, etc. then wait a few weeks and it will be the #1 result. I
have used this strategy for several years, it basically comes down to writing
quality content on topics that don’t have any content.

~~~
petra
Searches/topics that don't have any content , usually have very low traffic.

So what's the point ?

~~~
joegahona
That would be true if the number of topics in the world were constant, but new
topics materialize all the time, and the popularity varies on old topics.
Articles get old/outdated and are fertile ground for new articles with updated
information, etc.

~~~
petra
That might be true to rapidly changing fields.

But most businesses work in slowly changing fields.

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seriocomic
I'm actually surprised that this article made the homepage and has received
the upvotes it has on this (typically SEO sceptical) HN forum.

Probably less than 30% of the article would be considered "effective" (e.g.
the advice is specific to, and likely to materially increase SEO performance)
and the rest is either unsubstantiated (semantic tags and image compression
leading to SEO ranking improvements) or unrelated to actual SEO (404 pages and
other "engagement" advice).

There are much better articles that break down the basics, ignore the "SEO"
parroting and that are substantiated by real data (based on test and trial).

~~~
andrei_says_
Could you link to one? Would love some high quality writing on the topic.

~~~
Jommi
I doubt he will link anything that works. It's because of how advertising
works. It's usually a zero-sum game in PPC so tips/tricks usually only work
when majority of people do not know of them.

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alexis_fr
> I must warn you: blog topics will seem really boring. That’s normal. You’re
> writing for Google, not really to bring lots of value to users. (But don’t
> worry, they only look at the pictures )

It always makes me sad that the sad state of the web is imposed by an
artificial decision.

Good article, very different from past years where repeating a keyword was
useful.

~~~
ALittleLight
I was confused by that part and by rule 7.

"Rule #7: There is no secret. Craft amazingly good content."

So... Craft amazingly good content by hiring a freelancer on fiverr to write
boring top ten blog posts that aren't intended to be read by anybody but
Google?

On the one hand, I appreciate the author sharing strategies and ideas. On the
other hand, this feels a lot like polluting cyberspace. By ranking your
blogspam to drive sales on your dropshipping platform, or whatever, you're
pushing actual good content off the first page of search results and into
ignominy. It helps explain a general feeling I've had lately about the web
getting worse and more generic.

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mojuba
> Connect your website to all the services that Google offers: Google
> Analytics, Google Search Console, Google My Business, YouTube… Google [...]
> created them to collect and analyze as much information about you as
> possible.

Or rather, as much information about the users as possible. Add Google Fonts
to the mix, also the hosted JS frameworks. Anything hosted by Google that is
requested via your web site _is_ information about the visitor for Google.
This is evil in its purest form, but if you are to play the game then play it
in full.

------
saagarjha
> Connect your website to all the services that Google offers: Google
> Analytics, Google Search Console, Google My Business, YouTube… Google did
> not create them to please you. It created them to collect and analyze as
> much information about you as possible.

:(

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chiefalchemist
SEO is a tool. The myth is it's free. That's not so. It takes time. It's
certain possible it's a tool that's not for you. That you get better marketing
ROI elsewhere.

SEO is a good thing. But it's not always the best investment.

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whsheet
Nice content marketing piece and guide for an SEO beginner but I stopped
reading here:

> all with a 95% SEO acquisition strategy

That's so wrong. Free organic traffic is great. But if you rely fully on
organic traffic, it rather shows that your LTV is not bigger than your CAC and
if Google or competition kills your search traffic, your business is done
and/or you can't scale when your mighty SEO doesn't work anymore.

~~~
hluska
How does organic traffic show your LTV !> acquisition cost?

~~~
chao-
I feel like there are a few unstated assumptions in whsheet's post. Even with
those, of course, no advice is universal or without exception. They do make a
good point, though.

My version of the thought process is that, all else equal, SEO has three key
disadvantages:

1\. Attribution is often harder than some other channels, and your
experimental design has to account for that.

2\. There is a less direct, unitary through-line from dollars invested to
dollars earned. Say you spend X dollars on various SEO improvements this
month, and you get Y units of growth (conversions, revenue, etc.) that you can
attribute to that SEO work. It is less reliable to assume (relative to other
channels) that spending 10X on SEO improvements next month will reward you
with 10Y units of growth.

3\. If SEO is your dominant channel at 95%, and you ever hit the maturity in
the channel, the effect of the above is can be fatal to a growth-oriented
startup. However you measure your SEO-based CAC, it is _probably_ going to be
lower than the CAC of whatever your backup/next channel ends up being, and
lower by a large amount. If you have to add in a lot of SEM with your SEO, CAC
goes way up, and if your LTV was too precariously close to your CAC already,
you are very likely to go negative on your unit economics.

#2 and #3 are what I assumed whsheet was intending as I read their post.

~~~
hluska
Thanks for taking the time to write that out. It makes more sense now!

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gopi
This is a better SEO guide for beginners [https://medium.com/startup-
grind/seo-is-not-hard-a-step-by-s...](https://medium.com/startup-grind/seo-is-
not-hard-a-step-by-step-seo-tutorial-for-beginners-that-will-get-you-ranked-
every-single-1b903b3ab6bb)

------
tomhoward
For whatever it's worth, Rand Fishkin seems unimpressed with this post:

[https://twitter.com/randfish/status/1180938925805846529](https://twitter.com/randfish/status/1180938925805846529)

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jotm
I would add: only use SEO for actual, useful services, content or products.

Don't trash the already bad SERPs with more junk (eg regurgitated articles
written for £3, surrounded by ads and popups). That's just being a c__t

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TenJack
> Medium blog posts are poorly referenced by Google.

I've never heard this before and in fact have only heard the opposite.

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blondy16
Hey @romain_g, huge thanks for sharing my blogpost!

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franze
i have done seo since 2004 and now i'm leaving it behind for good. (reason:
new google search console, amp, featured snippets and google ads the first 4
results anyway ... google lost its way a long time ago, they are internet
cancer by now)

as i am leaving SEO for good, im selling my SEO book for 1€/$ (Kindle Version,
i can't set it to 0)

[https://www.fullstackoptimization.com/b/understanding-
seo](https://www.fullstackoptimization.com/b/understanding-seo)

~~~
fefehern
Just a notice: I am currently seeing it on Amazon for higher than $1

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rolltiide
Just run instagram story ads

ZERO of those users will ever care or even notice your URL. Dont waste time on
that

ZERO of those users will ever type in a search string on Google to find you

MANY of those users can order from you with their phone’s native payment
system, or will pull out their credit card and type it in using the crude
mobile interface.

It also works really well.

Really should consider ditching a lot of last decade’s logic. And by last
decade I mean that the 2020s is starting in 3 months. What even are your
goals? Identifying that there are SEO optimizations doesnt mean they arent
irrelevant optimizations to earning revenue. Are we still trying to drive
traffic to ad supported food blogs so that 0.2% of “people” accidentally click
them? Come on. You want recurring revenue from your SaaS service or reselling
crap from Alibaba to hipsters at a 1,000% mark up.

~~~
Jommi
Hey. Thanks for this comment, it really feels like a breath of fresh air. Do
you have more to say on this topic?

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PavlovsCat
I love the web and making no-BS web things so much that I'm _really_ glad I'm
not a Startup and need to know none of these things.

------
vladmk
Basics

