
Before Silicon Valley, New Jersey Reigned As Nation's Center Of Innovation - happy-go-lucky
http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2017/06/05/531250084/before-silicon-valley-new-jersey-reigned-as-nations-center-of-innovation
======
Akarnani
Even as Silicon Valley was still in its infancy, a group of organizations
including Bell, MCI, GM, and others hired Fred Terman from Stanford to make NJ
more like what Silicon Valley (NJ and SV share a ton of similarities, i did a
tedx talk about it below [1]) but Terman was unsuccessful. He pointed to how
Princeton was not focused enough on applied science the way Stanford was. East
coast politics and stock market downturn also hindered his efforts.

Also, don't forget Fort Monmouth, which was across the county, employed an
equal number of scientists and was responsible for nearly as many inventions
as Bell Labs (much classified). It was the home of the Army's software and
signal operations. Just like Silicon Valley, the military kickstarted the
world's most productive innovation cores.

New Jersey had (and continues to have) the richest concentration of scientists
in the United States. Monmouth County and the Princeton had, for a very long
time, the kind of serendipity that makes Silicon Valley so special—that you
can walk down the street and bump into a bunch of engineers and VCs while
walking your dog and strike up a conversation.

State politics in NJ, unfortunately, doesn't nurture these institutions and
the ecosystem has grown weaker. It breaks my heart that Bell Labs is a mall
and Fort Monmouth lays fallow when it should be bid out to universities to
become the Stanford of the East—the applied sciences university that Fred
Terman dreamed about.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2LbuqoNGGI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2LbuqoNGGI)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Monmouth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Monmouth)

[3] [http://www.politifact.com/new-
jersey/statements/2012/sep/06/...](http://www.politifact.com/new-
jersey/statements/2012/sep/06/choose-new-jersey/new-jersey-leads-world-number-
scientists-engineers/)

~~~
TarpitCarnivore
The old Bell Labs building is, finally, under a revitalization and reuse of
the workspace called Bell Works
([http://bell.works/neighborhood/](http://bell.works/neighborhood/)). Based on
job listings it seems NVIDIA's AI/Autonomous driving is happening there. As
someone who lives close by, but commutes to NYC, I can only hope to see more
big name companies move in.

As for Fort Monmouth, pretty much all the offices were moved to Aberdeen as
part of the last BRAC. As you stated there was a lot of work being done there
related to communications & intelligence (I believe a lot of GPS work was out
of there). It was a real hit to the local community when it shut down since it
happened in the middle of the housing crisis. A lot of families were forced to
short sale or do long commutes. The space is finally up purchase, but sadly it
will be getting used to build more condos & a shopping center. There were
rumors of Monmouth University and Rutgers wanting to get access to the space
but were declined.

~~~
mholmes680
But it'll be called Freedom Pointe now, so it has to be good:
[http://www.njbiz.com/article/20170606/NJBIZ01/170609904/para...](http://www.njbiz.com/article/20170606/NJBIZ01/170609904/paramount-
realty-has-big-plans-for-freedom-pointe-at-former-fort-monmouth)

------
bogomipz
Also central to New Jersey's weight as an innovation hub was Princeton
University - where Alan Turning met and studied under Alonzo Church.[1].

Also worth mentioning is the Institute for Advanced Studies in Princeton, N.J
where Kurt Gödel remained a faculty member until his death in 1978.[2]

Alfred Einstein also spent the last two years of his life working at the
Institute. Imagine the conversations Einstein and Godel might have had? If
you're interested, this a nice piece worth reading(Gödel and Einstein were
walking companions!) [3]

[1]
[http://www.maa.org/book/export/html/606725](http://www.maa.org/book/export/html/606725)

[2] [https://www.ias.edu/scholars/godel](https://www.ias.edu/scholars/godel)

[3] [http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2005/02/28/time-
bandits-2](http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2005/02/28/time-bandits-2)

~~~
rb808
John von Neumann worked in Princeton, I didn't realize the von Neumann
architecture was aka the Princeton architecture.

Of course Einstein lived and worked in Princeton too.

~~~
hari_seldon_
Many people on HN seem to forget that many strides in computer science,
computer architecture, and mathematics came from schools that don't start with
an "S" and are from outside of the Bay Area. I think it is more that the
definition of how you measure innovation has shifted over time -- now it is
based on how many dollars are raised for your venture vs. actual strides being
made in academic fields of study.

~~~
bogomipz
I find your comment a bit gratuitous. These seminal figures come up somewhat
regularly on HN and it's no secret that these great minds hailed from Austria,
Britain, Hungary, Germany etc.

~~~
rb808
Sure, but 100 years ago none of them would have thought of moving to Northern
CA, where now they are more likely to go there than the East Coast.

~~~
bogomipz
MIT, CMU, Princeton, Harvard and Cornell are all top schools for C.S. and
those are all still on the East Coast. None of these schools have any
difficulty attracting top talent from around the world.

~~~
vonmoltke
I got skewered in /r/cscareerquestions several months ago for suggesting that
_any_ Ivy had a top-tier CS program. It may not be reality, but there is
definitely a strong perception.

~~~
tnecniv
It's a very odd perception that I think comes from their size. They tend to be
smaller, more focused departments. The education quality is still high and
everyone's favorite companies recruit at them.

~~~
hari_seldon_
Agreed! If you actually talk to recruiters and teams at top-tier companies,
then the stronger Ivies still do well when it comes to CS careers.

------
omni
No discussion on New Jersey's glorious past is complete without a reference to
the most passive-aggressive bridge in the world, located in Trenton
[http://www.usw.org/blog/2015/intro/trenton-
pics.jpg](http://www.usw.org/blog/2015/intro/trenton-pics.jpg)

~~~
exhilaration
I actually read that as a statement of pride.

------
iamleppert
I don't know what's more sad, the fact that NJ killed its own tech scene or
that the revival efforts shining example focus on a "company that helps people
make money on videos they post on social media".

That's certainly a far cry from inventing the transistor and pioneering radio.
Yep, NJ is still (for now) dead to tech.

It reminds me of Columbus, Ohio, which used to be a big Internet and tech hub.
Now, only burnt embers and dilapidated warehouses of prior successes remain.
The only tech jobs are the fading and hold-over "IT Administrators" at
lackluster companies like Nationwide and random health companies.

There have been a few scattershot efforts, very familiar to what is happening
in NJ to try and get entrepreneurs to "startup" but it's not about the tech
anymore. The real creative soul, and passion, love of science and wonderment
of the natural world, which is really what fuels tech, is long gone. I'm sorry
but social media marketing is a business, not real innovative technology.

~~~
dmix
> Some cultural differences were also shaped by the law. New Jersey has strict
> anti-competitive laws that make it hard to take what you learn at your job
> and create a new company.

This is probably the biggest influence. SV is built on people who starte
working at HP, Microsoft, or Google, then left to found their own company - or
straight out of college for the lucky/rich kids like Zuckerberg and Gates.
Then there is the wealthy ones who 'made it' sticking around and financing the
next generation.

This is very likely the entrepreneurial, internally competitive, and
experimentally financed system that was never properly established in NJ. New
Jersey had their successful golden era, then instead of fostering the next one
they focused only on the big companies, acted protective/insular as big
companies do, and got government policy to protect their interests from the
young upstarts - instead of fostering them.

~~~
ChuckMcM
A thousand times this. I had a discussion on the plane with a person trying to
make their city more like the Bay Area. And they had looked at universities,
and air ports, and demographics, and infrastructure. I asked them whether or
not their state allowed the enforcement of non-compete agreements? Yes. Do
they allow employers to take ownership of all work product even when it is
done on the employee's non-work time on non-work equipment? Yes. So I said,
first thing you have to do is make both of those 'no', then you can start on
the other bits. But allowing people to compete with the people who hired them
is essential.

------
robterrin
And before NJ the US tech hub was Baltimore. Information technology has been
built into the economic history of the United States for quite some time.

The first electronic telegraph ran from DC to Bmore. Prior to the telegraph
and it's forerunner, the optical telegraph, the fastest way to transmit goods
and information were the Clipper ships coming out of the port of Baltimore
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore_Clipper](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore_Clipper)).

If you're interested in reading more economic history I highly recommend both
The Weather Experiment ([https://www.amazon.com/Weather-Experiment-Pioneers-
Sought-Fu...](https://www.amazon.com/Weather-Experiment-Pioneers-Sought-
Future/dp/0374536201)) and Empire of Cotton ([https://www.amazon.com/Empire-
Cotton-History-Sven-Beckert/dp...](https://www.amazon.com/Empire-Cotton-
History-Sven-Beckert/dp/0375713964))

------
rb808
I think Wall st sucked up most of the tech talent from NJ. Well over half the
IT staff I've seen in the big banks and hedge funds live in NJ and commute in.
I dont think tech could compete salary wise, though is starting to change now.
Also Virtually all the data centers for NYC banks are in NJ suburbs.

Other Scientists and business people moved into Pharma in the 80s & 90s -
which is also not doing so well.

~~~
throwawaymanbot
I know a lot of tech staff being made to relocate TO NJ. Due to Manhattan
costs. This is a good thing for NJ.

------
jaryd
For those interested in learning more about Bell Labs I recommend you check
out the book "The Idea Factory"
([https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11797471-the-idea-
factor...](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11797471-the-idea-factory)).

~~~
sizzzzlerz
I saw this and came to make the same recommendation. I just finished this book
and it is excellent. As an EE, the chapters on the discovery of the transistor
by Brattain and Bardeen up to the experiment where their prototype starts
actually amplifying an input signal for the first time represents such a
seminal moment in the history of the world. Arguably, it is the most important
invention of the 20th century.

------
Dowwie
It's worth noting that today New Jersey votes for its next governor (primary).
Phil Murphy took the time during his campaign to acknowledge the NJ Tech
Meetup community (at Stevens Inst. in Hoboken) and has expressed an interest
in supporting entrepreneurs. We'll see how the elections go this year and what
the next administration does.

I'm a NJ native (NYC metro area), active contributor to open source tech
communities, and tech-preneur.

~~~
losteverything
Primary, not general

~~~
Dowwie
updated

------
prions
I just stared an internship at Bell Labs Murray Hill. Growing up in Holmdel,
I've been a fan of Bell Labs since childhood and feel so happy to be working
here. The atmosphere and energy from all the amazing achievements is really
palpable.

Word is the acquisition of Alcatel Lucent by Nokia has really put Bell Labs
back into the public spotlight. Excited to see what the future holds and I
hope I can still be a part of it!

~~~
s73ver
Do they still have signs marking the places where historic things happened?
Like the lab where the transistor was invented, or Claude Shannon's office?

~~~
prions
Yes! They also have a museum and a showcase room. I was able to see the first
transistor.

I believe they're reconstructing Dennis Ritchie's original office. They still
have his chalkboard too.

------
Animats
Boston's Route 128 was a center of innovation in the minicomputer era. DEC,
Data General, Prime, and Wang were all Boston-area companies. None survived
the transition to microprocessors.

~~~
jerrylives
EMC is still kickin

------
securingsincity
The exact same story is told in the film industry. Edison's patents were very
strongly enforced on the east coast, but not in California. All of the film
studios then packed up and headed west.

~~~
throwawaymanbot
Protectionism in capitalism does not work in the long run. Different forms of
it are practiced to this day. US Capitalism is rife with with legislative
protectionism.

------
brosirmandude
Interesting seeing this story this morning, my company recently moved into the
old Bell Labs building. Now called Bell Works, it does actually look like it's
going to become a hub of new tech companies in the area.

It's pretty humbling to walk into this giant building every day knowing some
of the amazing things that were invented here.

~~~
TarpitCarnivore
I keep looking for opportunities in Bell Works. I would gladly give up my 2
hour commute from the shore area to NYC to work in Holmdel. I could even ride
my bike.

~~~
aswanson
Holy crap. You drive up from the jersey shore to NYC every day??

~~~
TarpitCarnivore
I take the train which is 78-80 minutes, but all told it takes 2 hours door to
door.

~~~
aswanson
There is a train service running from the shore area? From the Atlantic City
area? I know there's one out of Trenton.

~~~
TarpitCarnivore
The shore technically encompasses Monmouth County down to Cape May county.
There is the North Jersey Coast Line that runs from Bay Head to NYC, but not
always direct which requires a change over in Long Branch. This is due to the
Long Branch to Bay Head portion not having the newer lines run for the trains.

------
microtherion
Headline is nicely illustrated by a friend of mine who visited the US for the
first time, travelled to Menlo Park, CA, and was disappointed that he couldn't
find Edison's lab.

------
throwawaymanbot
According to wikipedia, it also has more engineers per square meter than any
state in the US. Not quite the trashy state people are led to believe it is.

Now that NYC is not affordable for startups, NJ will become a perfectly
respectable tech/Start up hub. And good for it.

~~~
aswanson
Nah, Jersey is done. The same 1950s attitudes/laws that caused it to lose the
industry are still there. That's why it's tech scene consists mostly of big
doofy defense contractors and Comcast.

~~~
throwawaymanbot
Perhaps, But, I'm wagering that with NYC pricing out anyone but wall st banks,
the pressure will build and it will change out of necessity. NJ shall be
remade and reborn!

~~~
briandear
Not with the insane property taxes and other regulatory friction. Highest
property taxes in the country. It also has some of the highest auto insurance
rates in the country as well. Health insurance is also higher than in
neighboring NYC (at least the last time I checked a few years ago.)

All of the Democrat candidates for NJ governor want to raise taxes even more.

NJ also has the most underfunded public pension system in the country. -- a
$44 billion shortfall. As a tech entrepreneur, I'd be very nervous about
locating in a state that could, at any moment decide that those "wealthy tech
companies" ought to be bailing out decades of financial mismanagement.

NJ also ranked 49th in "Small Business Friendliness" \-- California was 50th.
New York was 48th.

[http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2014/12/nj_is_a_terribl...](http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2014/12/nj_is_a_terrible_place_for_small_businesses_analysis_finds.html)

South Dakota, Nevada and Texas were the top three.

If anywhere should be the "next" place, it should probably be Houston -- one
of the most diverse cities in the country, low taxes, access to a massive
academic medical center, NASA, the energy industry, low cost of living, Rice
University (pioneers in nano-tech including a Nobel winners,) University of
Houston, including Paul Chu in superconducting. Texas A&M is about an hour
away with more Nobel winners, including the 1996 Nobel in Physics and
substantial engineering and science research programs

New Jersey does have Princeton of course and access to NYC (if that actually
matters.) New Jersey's only "attraction" other than Princeton is "proximity to
New York." I would have to see some actual data to be convinced that
"proximity to New York" actually has a material affect on the success of
startups. It's a fallacy that being in San Fran or NYC actually matters.

~~~
s73ver
"It's a fallacy that being in San Fran or NYC actually matters."

If you want money, which let's be honest, is one of the most important things
in this context, it highly does. All of the major VCs are in SF or NYC, and
have shown very little desire to branch out from there. While we occasionally
hear stories of a startup outside of those places doing well, it's generally
the exception, not the rule.

~~~
steego
I have to echo this.

You can start a company anywhere, but if you want to grow quickly, there are a
few places where you can get the capital, infrastructure, community and talent
quickly.

------
meggar
So there's silicon alley in NY, silicon prairie in the midwest, silicon forest
in portland, what do we call Jersey?

~~~
madcaptenor
If you wanted to confuse the hell out of people, you could call it "Silicon
Garden", after the state's nickname, the Garden State.

~~~
acjohnson55
Of course, it's only really confusing if your only touch points in the state
are I-95 and US-1. A small handful of miles either direction off the Northeast
Corridor, and the state earns its nickname.

~~~
madcaptenor
I grew up in South Jersey and I agree that it does earn that nickname! But so
many people only see New Jersey as a place to pass through and so they don't
see it.

------
mathattack
The magic of silicon valley is an ecosystem where both people and money flock
to the hottest ideas. Big companies like AT&T and GM are the antithesis to
this.

------
jballanc
Well, New Jersey is still the only state to have a programming language named
for it (SML/NJ, in case you were curious)...

~~~
Nav_Panel
SML/NJ is just a compiler/programming environment for SML[1], not a whole
language on its own. Still impressive.

1: [http://www.smlnj.org/smlnj.html](http://www.smlnj.org/smlnj.html)

------
losteverything
How come nobody's mentioned pharma in Jersey's tech history?

I can't help but think like Yogi Berra when I look at my own trajectory. Tech
overpaid me and tech displaced me. The winds blew west? Will they blow west
again for the west coast departure and leave the USA entirely?

------
mapster
When Franklin Computers dropped their Franklin Ace line they had a huge
parking lot sale. Snagged a mess of motherboards and parts to make 5 2e compat
machines.

------
whoisinfosec
Most of my clients are in NJ, very tech-heavy still.

~~~
nerfhammer
Yea it's tech heavy but not really startup heavy, which seems to be HN's bias.
I'm pretty sure Intel and IBM have big campuses there still. Also quite a bit
of finance spills over from New York. And lots of tech workers live in NJ and
commute over to NY.

------
Fej
Why did Jet start here? Legitimate question.

~~~
steego
I think the founder lived in Montclair, which is where they had their first
office. As soon as they could move, they hiked over to Hoboken.

That helped them considerably as it allowed them to recruit people who lived
in the city as it's just a few blocks from the Path station.

Had they set up shop anywhere else in NJ, it would have been difficult for
them to hire as quickly as they did.

------
wheaties
TLDR: anti-competative laws shunted growth to areas like silicon Valley which
didn't have them.

Seriously, why do we even allow people not at a C level to be impacted by
these laws that say you can't leave to start a competitor? Moreover, why is it
legal, like in NY, for a company to say they own all your work both on and off
the job? We're killing ourselves.

~~~
ghaff
I suspect that a lot of people over-emphasize the role of California non-
compete lack of enforceability, specially given that (perhaps especially in
the past) they've also reflected cultural differences between established
large east coast firms and California startups.

I'm not aware of research in the area but states other than California vary in
the degree they enforce non-competes and other restrictions. I'm not aware
these have a clear correlation to business formation by state. I don't doubt
it's one factor but, for example, Massachusetts hasn't been able to get rid of
non-competes yet does pretty well as a tech center.

~~~
mlinksva
Massachusetts's enforcement of non-competes and poor performance relative to
California is the classic variation, first (or at least famously) pointed out
in 1994 and subject of many studies since;
[http://webdoc.sub.gwdg.de/ebook/serien/lm/DRUIDwp/10-02.pdf](http://webdoc.sub.gwdg.de/ebook/serien/lm/DRUIDwp/10-02.pdf)
is one from 2011 that extends analysis to all US metros: less enforcement
correlated with more employment, business establishments, and patents (sigh)
even if the SF bay area is excluded.

