
Open letter to Blackboard: $1M to charity if you drop patent litigation - paulgb
http://www.desire2learn.com/million/
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aristus
I'd dig deeper on this one. When a company says "we will donate $X to
schools", they often mean the notional retail value of their products. My high
school computer class was _drowning_ in donated AOL floppies, MS Office
licenses, and copies of the soundtrack to Gigli.

It's carpet bombing, basically. Maybe the kids benefit, maybe not, but they
are being used in a distasteful way.

~~~
paulgb
Good point, but judging from this I think they are talking about cash:

"$1,000,000 from Desire2Learn can make a significant difference for thousands
of students through the purchase of laptops, technology, supplies and other
much needed educational support."

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noonespecial
We've worked for Blackboard in the past. They make more from lawsuits and
extorted "license fees" than product easy. Its my hunch that the "product" is
just there to prop up the patent crap.

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wallflower
They've already paid Blackboard $3.3M (with the idea that they'll get the
money back on appeal)?

"On another note, we've reached an agreement with Blackboard, and yesterday
wired $3,313.552.40 to it, in full payment of the judgment (and post-judgment
interest) awarded by the Court. These funds will be returned to Desire2Learn
if and when the judgment is reversed."

<http://www.desire2learn.com/patentinfo/>

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palish
Meant to upvote, not downvote, sorry. Upvoting 2 other of your good comments.

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jcromartie
Fun Blackboard fact: professors ask students to submit homework files with
their initials prepended to them because Blackboard _will overwrite files with
the same name_ no matter who uploads them!

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yummyfajitas
A professor actually asks students to submit homework files via blackboard?
This is the first I've heard of such a thing, and I'm a prof (well, postdoc).

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jpwagner
Blackboard is infamous for this. They hold patents for ridiculously vague
definitions of web-based education...

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dtap
And sue people like crazy to protect
them...[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackboard_Inc.#Blackboard_lega...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackboard_Inc.#Blackboard_legal_issues)

It takes more space on their wikipedia entry than their actual products.

~~~
endtime
That isn't surprising, since their products are pretty terrible. My undergrad
school used Blackboard and whenever the prof for a class actually wanted to
use it (not often) it was a huge pain in the ass. Maybe they should fire some
lawyers and hire some developers...

~~~
donaq
I can attest to that. I had to use Blackboard too when I was attending
college, and it was a major pain, so much so that a sizable number of my
professors preferred to just use mailing lists instead.

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dbr
I know it isn't going to be popular to say that Blackboard is not a bad
company for getting these patents and suing others for infringement. The truth
is, the patent system is what mandates Blackboard's behavior. If Blackboard
didn't get the overbearing patent when they could, another company would, and
Blackboard would be the ones being sued for infringement right now. So blame
the patent system and lobby to change it instead of getting mad at Blackboard.

By the way, my school is switching from Blackboard to ANGEL (open source) to
save money.

~~~
paulgb
Not a bad company for owning the patents? Agreed. Not a bad company for
litigating on them? No. No one, not even a bad system, forced them to
litigate. Just because a what a company does is legal doesn't mean it
shouldn't cost them in public image.

I do agree with your main point, which is that the patent system needs to be
changed. But startups like Desire2Learn are too busy to spend time fighting
the US Patent system, especially when (like D2L) they aren't even based in the
US.

~~~
dbr
They are a publicly traded company and litigating the issue makes business
sense for them. For Blackboard to not sue their competitors for infringing on
patents they own would not be against stockholder interest.

~~~
paulgb
That is true. But it doesn't mean we should grant publicly traded companies
immunity. The threat of bad press can be enough to make "doing the right
thing" the better business decision.

If public perception is aligned with what is ethically right, it is better
business for companies to be ethical. Although ethics is subjective, to me
what Blackboard, Inc. is doing is unethical. Since it seems the majority here
(and around the web, including current and potential customers) feel the same
way, maybe litigating doesn't make so much business sense after all.

~~~
dbr
I think that must factor into their decision. Unfortunately, public opinion
probably won't have much of a sway on their decision. Or rather, the public
won't have an opinion. I could be wrong, but I imagine most of the money they
make comes from a relatively small amount of customers buying for big school
districts and universities, who certainly have other metrics than whether or
not the company enforces patents it owns. In this case it seems they are doing
what is best for shareholders, which is to hold and enforce the patents they
own (regardless of if they really should have these patents or not, they were
awarded them). It comes down to if the long-term decision to oust competitors
pays off more than the short-term decision to lose some amount of paying
customers.

A sad fact is that the average Joe doesn't really care enough to be aware of
these patent issues.

*I added one to many 'not' in my last comment.

~~~
paulgb
That's a good point. Blackboard is probably not going to change their decision
from public opinion. I think where we differ is that I still think that public
outrage is justified, if only to set an example for other companies (to whom
public opinion is more valuable).

By the way, I hate to see you being downmodded just for having a contrary
opinion, so I've upvoted your comments where I hadn't already. Hopefully some
others who value discussion over groupthink will do the same.

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mattmaroon
If I were Blackboard, I'd write an open letter detailing how I was going to
win $50 million off of them in court and then donate $1m to charity.

~~~
breck
I am not on BB's side here, but this is a smart strategy. :)

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ksvs
Anyone have a link to the patent Blackboard claims they're infringing?

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jeremytliles
Having had to use Blackboard several times in the past, I have a hard time
believing they have any IP that should be protected. As I recall, their
functionality is similar to any number of portal-type applications (groups,
discussions, document postings, different access levels, etc.) It looks to me
as if their patents rest on the fact that they are applying obvious
processes/technology to a specific vertical: education.

Of course I'm not an IP lawyer, this is just my layman's opinion.

~~~
mustpax
Not only that, last time I used it, Blackboard was a sad, sad excuse for a web
app. Poorly designed, poorly executed, bad usability overall. But Blackboard
is the type of app IT managers love. It's what everyone else is using, so it
must be Ok. No IT manager ever lost her job for buying something too
conservative.

What really makes me disillusioned about the current state of IP law is that
you mostly see the poorly performing incumbents go after the innovating start-
ups with patent lawsuits. I know I'm biased about this, but I really can't
remember the last time some fledgling start-up was trying to protect itself
with its patents. With patent portfolios, size matters, as long as you've got
plenty of tricks up your sleeve, you can always settle in a reasonable manner.

~~~
breck
You're right. It's because the laws are designed to protect the big guys.

Pretend you are a patent lawyer. 98% of your business comes from big firms.
Are you going to donate money and lobby to create laws that protect 98% of
your revenue or are you going to push for laws that help small innovators?

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tjic
This sounds like well orchestrated PR to me.

For better or worse, intellectual property laws exist, and Desire2learn.com
seems to have infringed on Blackboard.

If Blackboard wins, Desire2learn suffers a big hit in their profits.

So Desire2learn says "Hey, here's an idea ... we won't change anything at all
about what we're doing, but instead of paying you a big pile of cash, we
propose to pay someone else a SMALLER pile of cash".

They're both profit-motivated companies (and I've got ZERO problem with that),
and I dislike Desire2learn trying to pretend that they "care about the
children", when it's clear that they're motivated primarily by the dollars and
cents of the situation.

It's dishonest.

~~~
paulgb
Of course PR is a part of this. They don't hide that. ("As for public opinion,
yes, we plead guilty. We do value public opinion, especially in the
educational community.") [1]

Have you read the patent claims? markbao posted them above in this thread.
It's hard to side with Blackboard after reading what they are trying to
protect.

[1] <http://www.desire2learn.com/patentinfo/>

~~~
dbr
While I agree that the patent is ridiculous in what it claims is an original
idea, let's try to fix the patent system which awarded the patent, instead of
blaming Blackboard for bad behavior.

After all, if Blackboard didn't get the patent first, some other company
would, and Blackboard would be the one infringing.

All of these problems would go away if patents were awarded properly.

~~~
donaq
And meanwhile, before the patent system gets fixed (assuming it ever will), we
shouldn't blame Blackboard if it bullies the competition out of existence?

 _After all, if Blackboard didn't get the patent first, some other company
would, and Blackboard would be the one infringing._

That argument is along the same lines as not convicting a hitman for accepting
a hit on someone by rationalizing that if he didn't kill the victim, the
business would just go to some other hitman. I think convicting whichever
hitman accepted the assignment is reasonable, don't you?

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qqqqq5
This analogy would work if killing someone for profit was legal.

~~~
donaq
The discussion is not about legality. I was responding to the OP saying that
we shouldn't "blame Blackboard for bad behaviour" because if they hadn't done
it, then someone else would have done it anyway. Hence the analogy is valid.

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TJensen
I worked for a company that had close ties to BB and WebCT. Working with BB
was always a nightmare - they were exactly what you would think from reading
this page. WebCT were great to work with.

It was a sad day when the acquisition happened. Certainly one of the worst
things that could happen for the students using the software.

