
Airbnb can’t go on unregulated – it does too much damage to cities - Ibethewalrus
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/24/airbnb-unregulated-damage-cities-barcelona-law-locals
======
sytelus
I fail to see what _exactly_ are the claimed problems here. The article
contains unproven claims like:

 _Rents for residents are being driven up, in Barcelona as well as Berlin, New
York and elsewhere._

Rents have been going up everywhere because of the real estate market moves,
not AirBnB. It's disingenuous to throw it on AirBnB.

 _In Barcelona, it used to cost €250 (£221) for a short-term rental permit.
Now that such permits are no longer being issued, they change hands for up to
€80,000._

This is the problem Barcelona government created by artificially limiting the
supply just like NYC did with taxi medallions. What do you expect?

AirBnB is the good thing and its great to see these brave startups going up
against government sponsored monopoly on artificially limiting taxi and hotel
ownerships only to small group of rich people. These oligarchies exploit
poorest people to generate passive income for the rich. In ideal world, people
would vote out government passing such laws but their lobbiests have perfected
the art to sweep these laws under the rug. AirBnB allows to utilize spare
capacity available in the already dense city that is doing no work at optimal
pricing.

Anyway, there is absolutely no other claims or proof or data I see in this
article. I wouldn't be surprised at all if these articles are sponsored by the
hotel lobby.

~~~
darawk
The level of economic illiteracy in the media these days is just incredible.

~~~
BurningFrog
Or everywhere. Which brings me to a pet peeve:

Why is Economics not taught in regular schools?

All sorts of arcane trivia is taught to kids, but how a modern society
actually works is never explored.

~~~
colejohnson66
It is? I took an Econ class in high school in California

~~~
BigJono
We didn't have anything of the sort here in Australia. But hey, at least we
learnt how to calculate the inverse of a matrix...

------
sonnyblarney
The problem with AirBnB is not AirBnB. It's hotel regulation.

What ABnB has demonstrated is that there is a vastly underserved market for
regular travellers, who have no interest in 'having their sheets changed every
day' \- rather, they just want a decent and convenient space - and they can't
afford the $250/night for a boring room 'corporate' rate.

If hotels and their regulations were efficient - then AirBnB would only be
used what is was kind of meant for: either sharing/hosting - or - renting out
fairly 'special' places that just don't fit regular criteria.

Most AirBnB stays are a matter of price and convenience.

The fact that I can stay in cities, in a decent place for less than 1/2 the
cost of a hotel is what makes me hate AirBnB less than hotels and city
regulators.

Something is deeply wrong with the hotel and regulatory areas there or else
AirBnB wouldn't be a huge-huge thing.

A commenter below about a building that seemed to be AirBnBers ... think for a
moment how even _more_ efficient it would be if the whole dam thing were just
a hotel, with a maid staff that only cleaned and changed the sheets between
stays and could provide keys/keycodes. As it stands, even AirBnB is not near
real 'cost efficiency' because there's so much 'little overhead' with each
rental.

Not only should that building be a hotel but it should be _cheaper_ than
AirBnB! In fact, if markets were reasonably competitive AirBnB should
generally be more expensive.

I understand that individual patrons don't have nearly the safety and
regulatory expenses ... but it doesn't add up.

City regulators and hotel operators need to figure out a slightly different
model.

~~~
lovich
Preface: I dont actually have a set opinion yet on whether Airbnb is net
good/bad.

How much of this is regulation thats around to protect the society that the
hotel is operating in? Changing those sheets everyday isn't just for having
clean smelling sheets, but to prevent pests such as bed bugs in some
localities. For instance there's probably tons of people whod jump on
doctors/dentists who lower the price by not cleaning all their tools properly,
but we have regulations requiring it because it can create an epidemic that
causes negative externalities to the wider community.

I think I'd have less of a problem with Airbnb if there was any sort of
enforcement of health laws or putting effort into not supporting people who
sign leases saying they won't do Airbnb but do it anyway.

Having a lower price just shows that is the most efficient use of scarce
resources in that specific situation, it does not show that it's good for
society.

~~~
sonnyblarney
"Having a lower price just shows that is the most efficient use of scarce
resources in that specific situation"

No, it's not 'specific'. The 'rent' marketing clearing price for a locale is a
function of a vast array of economic inputs. That's the whole point of free
markets, and why it's difficult to dictate terms around it.

The fact that there is a vast influx of AirBnBers in so many areas is not a
small things, it's really quite apparent that the artificial controls set by
zoning are far more constrictive than we ever thought - and they should be
loosened. There are all sorts of external surpluses lost when markets are not
efficient.

Also - I fundamentally doubt that people are just 'getting sick' because of
AirBnB and 'not having their sheets changed every day'. I just don't believe
it's an issue. FYI hotels have stopped changing sheets every day as well, they
usually say 'to preserve water' which is BS - it's cost - but they generally
do make the bed and clean every day which is unnecessary.

I would probably ban AirBnB for anything but special kinds of places, and
maybe not allow it in residential buildings, at least allow building
owners/coops to enforce it.

And then also be far more lax with hotel zoning and regulations as well.

Every city wants more 'tourism' until they get tourists and they get pissed
off. Well, those tourists bring in tons of cash.

Every city wants business to invest and 'high tech' jobs until the locals
complain about 'Google values' and 'home prices'.

The market for both hotels and taxis is just too vastly distorted - and we all
lose - especially consumers who would only be able to afford 1/2 as much
travel otherwise.

There should be a lot more hotels and taxis.

~~~
SOLAR_FIELDS
I experience the exact opposite in regards to “getting sick”. When I travel,
which is quite often, I have a greater chance of getting sick when I stay in a
hotel. I suspect it’s like being on a plane where you are breathing air that
has been recycled with hundreds of other people. It’s noticeable enough that I
definitely need to collect hard data on it to establish the correlation.
Guessing anecdotally that if I stay in a hotel my chances of catching a cold
are at least double and possibly triple my chance of catching a cold in a
private AirBnB.

The other part of your comment that I can identify with is the “save the
environment” signs you see at hotels. It’s completely disingenuous and it’s
one of the rare small things that irrationally infuriates me. Every time I
read one of those signs I think something along the lines of “if this didn’t
save you money you wouldn’t care”. I inevitably end up pondering the decisions
that the hotel could make that would help save the environment many times more
than a few wash cycles. Decisions that the hotel obviously wouldn’t take
because it would cost the hotel money instead of saving them money. Perhaps my
disaffection is mostly because the signs are a perfect example of corporate
bullshit; the exact sort of facade you would expect from a faceless
corporation that will say anything to get your money.

------
ggm
Had a six month rental (not Airbnb) in Amsterdam and the effect of Airbnb in
rental market terms was palpable. Less properties available and higher prices.
This was during a time of falling property price for purchase, and yet a
shortage of proper rental homes.. that's pretty unhinged.

I rented below a worker in tenancy management who told me he dealt quite often
with protected tenancy holders subletting illegally. Ultimately the Dutch tax
authorities and Amsterdam City council cooperated on a response to undeclared
income with Airbnb and I think have pushed back on what is abuse of community
value. If you are told by your "host" to act like it's not Airbnb, isn't that
a bit of a signal about its legality? Or acceptance by neighbours?

It's a pretty destructive model, even if at the individual level is proffers
benefits to the home owner (many who sublet, are doing it illegally or off
contract)

Many body corporates are aware of short term letting in their communal
property and can do nothing about it. Apart from Airbnb you also have to
contend with illegal casinos and brothels)

The effects of short stay rental are not just about iconic western cities like
Barca. There is a problem in Bali I am told.

------
keerthiko
The way cities go about targeting airbnb only exacerbates the problem -- they
make it harder for tenants to host guests to offset their rental cost -- and
thus incentivize property owners to take rental units off the market in favor
of the more lucrative option of making them short-term airbnb units instead.

Cities should be allowing people to host in their primary residences, whether
owned property or as rental tenants, if anyone is allowed to host short term
paying guests at all.

If airbnb made it harder for property owners to list units on airbnb that
weren't their primary residence, while on the other hand allowing renters to
offset high rental costs by hosting guests at their primary residence on
occasion, i see it as a win-win.

The protections major cities give landlords who wish to prevent their rental
tenants from hosting on airbnb seem unreasonable until you realize that
hoteliers and landlords have more impact on city policies on these things.

~~~
hn_throwaway_99
Just want to point out that in high-demand urban areas, this proposal would
still be expected to cause rents to increase. The amount you can charge for
rent is fundamentally limited by the income of your potential renters, but now
it becomes income of potential renters _plus_ the amount they could expect to
earn by sharing the property out on Airbnb.

It's similar to what happened with low interest rates before the housing boom
and bust. You'd expect low interest rates would make housing cheaper for
buyers, but it also had the effect of causing house prices to rise because now
there were more people who could afford to bid on the same housing stock.

~~~
keerthiko
Completely agree. My pet idea is a tax for every bedroom in a residence over
the headcount of primary residents. This becomes hairy when deciding what
qualifies as a bedroom etc, but it will disincentivize renting properties with
spare bedrooms dedicated to Airbnb hosting. This way Airbnb units will
primarily be rooms left empty by primary residents traveling.

The idea of the sharing economy was supposed to be sharing what you normally
use, when you happen to not be using it, with financial incentives to offset
your property "rent". Not setting aside resources exclusively for "sharing" in
order to profit. That's just subcontracting.

------
killjoywashere
> In Barcelona, it used to cost €250 (£221) for a short-term rental permit.
> Now that such permits are no longer being issued, they change hands for up
> to €80,000.

So, this is the same thing as the taxi market: with an inelastic supply, the
price of a medallion in some cities was worth more than a house. And if you're
familiar with taxis pre-Uber, you can bet the permit holders will start
neglecting the properties to the point that noone wants to use the service
anymore.

------
remote_phone
I was in Toronto this summer, and it seemed like the entire condo was
inhabited by Airbnb-ers. We were told in the instructions not to talk to the
concierge or neighbors and when asked just say we are friends of the airbnber.

The funny thing is that everyone we saw was doing Airbnb. A bunch of people
were entering the condo with luggage every time we were in the lobby, and when
we left there were 8 other people were leaving at the same time.

It might or might not be legal in Toronto but it’s a poorly kept secret. I’m
curious what an economic downturn would do because you can’t walk away from
mortgage debt in Canada the same way you can in most states of the US.

~~~
killjoywashere
Wow, how can I walk away from mortgage debt? Did I miss something?

~~~
nikanj
Mortgages are non-recourse in 11 states. The expression "jingle mail" might
also be worth googling.

In Canada, and the rest of the US, if your mortgage is underwater it's a
problem for you. In those 11 states, it's a problem for the bank.

~~~
remote_phone
During the housing bust, no one was held liable for foreclosures. Their credit
rating was busted but that’s it.

------
peacetreefrog
I have some sympathy for people being kept up late at night be noise, although
it seems like there are other, more direct ways to deal with that (i.e.
cracking down on the people being too loud).

The rest of it seems like another form of NIMBYism though.

~~~
city41
But you can't crack down on the people being too loud. In two days they'll be
gone, replaced by brand new loud people.

I don't think this is NIMBYism at all. People have a reasonable expectation
that the residential area they live in will be treated as a residential area
and not a business.

------
the_clarence
Airbnb is freaking amazing for travelers. I think it cometely changed the game
for world exchanges. It's one of the few companies that I truly believe made
the world a better place.

~~~
foepys
Not if your "neighbor" (in reality an company renting out dozens of apartment)
put their apartment on Airbnb and you get a new bunch of drunk and noisy
tourists every week. You can call the cops all you want, they don't really
care because they are in holiday, and next week it will start again with a new
bunch of tourists.

~~~
dorchadas
Nor if you're trying to find accommodation in an already lacking city, and
AirBnB further exacerbates the problem because people can make more money over
a summer of short term rentals than a full year of long-term tenants. Or they
avoid paying taxes because AirBnB leaves it up to them, and they never report
it... AirBnB has basically made some aspects of travelling better, but overall
it's made the locales much worse off.

~~~
the_clarence
Tourism and short term acocmmodation is as important as long term accomodation
imo.

~~~
dorchadas
Both are important, but I'd say long term is more important. These are the
people who are going to be living there for years, sending their kids to
schools there, using the resources there daily, etc. Honestly, they shouldn't
be screwed over simply because owners can't get more money from AirBnB. They
provide much more over a longer period of time than tourists ever will, or
can.

Not saying tourists aren't important, but long term residents should be the
priority.

~~~
the_clarence
Long term: make the world a more connected place. The multiple guests
travelling to this place is more important than one neighbor's bad experience.

~~~
dorchadas
You assume they actually interact with the locals to make the world a more
connected place. That doesn't happen by tourists just showing up and doing
touristy things. In fact, the _reverse_ can happen as locals get priced out
because of tourists and they start to actively _blame_ the tourists for the
issue. Then, those who stay blame them for their behavior, which certainly
doesn't lend itself to a residential neighborhood, which just makes those
people dislike tourists as well. Definitely the opposite of being 'more
connected'.

> The multiple guests travelling to this place is more important than one
> neighbor's bad experience.

You're assuming that only _one_ neighbor has a bad experience. What if it's
_all_ of them, except the short-term residents? I also disagree that the
experience of the guests is more important.

~~~
the_clarence
You ignore the fact that tourists bring money to all the commerces around

~~~
dorchadas
Except there won't be any businesses around if tourists price them all out of
the city.

~~~
the_clarence
I fail to see how tourists decrease the number of commerces. Your rethoric has
pretty much been debunked by any touristic areas.

------
fanzhang
> Airbnb is a parasitic monster that squats over cities and hoovers up vast
> sums of money through its slimy proboscis.

I wonder whether the author would still have a problem if AirBnB were a
nonprofit (e.g. took 0% of the cut). That would reveal whether his real
argument is against AirBnB's profits, or that having an open short-term market
is harmful ipso facto (but when who play the colorful part of the monster?
probably the landlord-traveller duo?).

~~~
eesmith
BTW, "nonprofit" doesn't mean "no profit"/"0% of the cut". There are many ways
to make money as a non-profit organization, including some which can be
interpreted as 'parasitic.'

Consider a non-profit charter school which licenses teaching material from a
for-profit company and pays a for-profit company for the building lease - and
where the owner of the non-profit is also the owner of the other two
companies. Examples at
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/petergreene/2018/08/13/how-
to-p...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/petergreene/2018/08/13/how-to-profit-
from-your-non-profit-charter-school/) .

Non-profits can also take a part of the cut, as we find out with charity
organizations where, say, 85% of the donations goes to running the
organization. Examples at [https://www.thestreet.com/story/12878005/1/you-
wont-believe-...](https://www.thestreet.com/story/12878005/1/you-wont-believe-
the-overhead-costs-at-these-10-nonprofits.html) .

------
emdubs
Ultimately the question is whether the market is constrained by supply or
price. If the constrait is price, then hotels should be able to adjust and
stop charging ridiculous default rates in urban areas. If the market is
constrained by supply eventually it will be economically viable to build new
units.

That's not to say that Airbnb should not be regulated similarly to hotels. Imo
if you provide a nearly identical service you should follow the same
regulations

------
avoutthere
Maybe I'm dense, but I'm failing to see any real problem here. Certainly none
that would warrant government infringing on private property rights.

~~~
luckylittle
Me neither. If you own a property, you should be able to do whatever you want
with it. The argument, that it's bringing up prices is false - AirBnB, same as
Uber, exist because the prices were already high. If the prices were normal
(especially here in Australia), these types of services would not profit.
Think about a scenario when young couple with kids is paying so much for
mortgage/rent so if they need to go overseas for a few months, they don't
really have any other choice than list it on AirBnB to cover portion of the
cost.

~~~
city41
> If you own a property, you should be able to do whatever you want with it

That just isn't true though. You can't even alter a property without first
getting a permit in many cases. The things you do to stuff that you own can
impact the greater community, so the needs of the community need to be
considered.

------
rocketpastsix
Seeing what Airbnb has done to Nashville, its only going to get worse.

~~~
grogenaut
Care to elaborate?

------
Theodores
Another aspect of Airbnb is that it makes everywhere the same as far as
interior decor goes. Traditional rent seeking landlords spend $0.00 on things
like paint, carpets and fixtures, preserving places in some rotten state of
decay as long term tenants are not going to be spending their money on such
things even if they are living there for many years. There is no reason for
them to do so and with landlords extorting as much from their properties as
possible the tenants do not have surplus income to improve their dwellings
even if they should want to do so.

Airbnb transformed that, the rent seeking class can now get income on their
properties without having to put up with long term tenants. However they do
have to spend money on the property fixtures, which can be paid for with debt,
debt that is 'secured' by the property.

As a consequence there is a particular Airbnb style, it is a global style
influenced by upmarket hotels and the faceless luxury decor you get with them.
This might work out nicely for the rent seeker and the guest, however it means
character is lost. The property becomes bland Airbnb which can't be
transformed back to vernacular.

When the rent seeker eventually sells up and a new buyer is sought then the
house does go on the market. It has its price and sells fine with its
identikit Airbnb fixtures. However some people don't want to live in one of
these ex-Airbnb places, they might have wanted mid-century modern or Victorian
or whatever else the property should have, i.e. actual character befitting the
area and not the internet.

~~~
modwilliam
Could you show some examples of the particular Airbnb style?

~~~
focom
> Could you show some examples of the particular Airbnb style?

There is a great long form written in 2016 by the verge about it :

[https://www.theverge.com/2016/8/3/12325104/airbnb-
aesthetic-...](https://www.theverge.com/2016/8/3/12325104/airbnb-aesthetic-
global-minimalism-startup-gentrification)

