
Schneier on Security: All Subversive Organizations Now Must Register - stakent
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2010/02/all_subversive.html
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russell
It's the Al Capone gambit. Capone was not jailed for his criminal activities,
but for not reporting the income from them. Martha Stewart went to jail, not
for insider trading, but for lying about it. My guess is that this particular
piece of legislation violates first amendment rights, so this is just
legislative grandstanding, an activity not unknown these days,

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joe_the_user
You're point is?

Al Capone was certainly a criminal.

Martha Stewart was celebrity in the wrong place at the wrong time when someone
needed to make a point.

The government interprets laws for it's convenience, yes. Occasionally to our
benefit, often otherwise.

The law in the article certainly violates the 1st, 4th and 5th amendments as
they've generally been interpreted (freedom of speech, right to privacy, right
avoid self-incrimination). But such laws have been in force in this country
before so I wouldn't be sure they can't appear again. At this moment, though,
this will probably turn out to be an embarrassment.

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russell
My point is that there are enough laws that a determined prosecutor can get
you on something even if he cant on the big crime. Perhaps Capone is not a
good example because he committed a lot of crimes that we all think deserve
jail time. Martha Stewart is a more interesting case in this context. She was
never convicted of insider trading and probably could not have, but she could
not keep her mouth shut. She lied about something something that probably was
not a crime, However the lying was enough to get her jail time. This
legislation is a trap to catch people who would not otherwise be guilty of a
crime.

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joe_the_user
Yes indeed, from the SC state website:

 _Any organization or person who violates any of the provisions of this
chapter shall, upon conviction thereof, be punished by a fine of not more than
twenty-five thousand dollars or imprisonment for not more than ten years, or
by both fine and imprisonment._

<http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t23c029.htm>

Not admitting to doing something that isn't necessarily illegal puts you at
risk for a _ten year_ sentence...

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Hexstream
Well, then when they arrest someone they get to cite one more violation ("you
didn't register your illegal activity!") to "justify" a bigger punishment, for
free.

Well played.

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mtarnovan
It's the part in the addendum that gives the law an altogether different
meaning:

"[...] by force or violence or other unlawful means;"

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westbywest
Whether this is just stupid or a convenience arranged for law enforcement (see
comment below about bigger punishment), my guess is that the definition of
'subversive activity' in the legislation is impractically broad. The SC
legislature doesn't have the mandate to convict people of crimes (excepting
impeachment of elected officials). Its members are not judges.

Besides treason, which by necessity has a _very_ low rate of conviction (the
last being CIA mole Robert Hanssen last decade), I don't see how wording like
"overthrowing the government of the United State" could be upheld when there
is no parallel in whatever offense one was actually convicted for.

Otherwise, levying fines like this is pretty blatant extrajudicial punishment.

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TallGuyShort
I just find it humorous to picture a person who _would_ advocate the violent
overthrow of the government thinking, "Hmm... I really should head down to
City Hall and fill out a form declaring my political position. I'd hate to get
slapped with a fine!"

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btipling
I'm going to create a new group and the whole point of it will be to overthrow
the US government have it be replaced with chipmunks and then register on this
and pay the $5.

