

Veteran NYTimes Photographer Arrested & Allegedly Beaten by NYPD - aaronbrethorst
http://blog.chasejarvis.com/blog/2012/08/veteran-nytimes-photographer-arrested-allegedly-beaten-by-nypd-interview/

======
look_lookatme
Interestingly enough, it looks like his assignment was probably related to
this:

[http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/07/nyregion/for-women-in-
stre...](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/07/nyregion/for-women-in-street-stops-
deeper-humiliation.html?pagewanted=all)

stop-and-frisk is a significant issue in NYC. Ostensibly the authority is
granted as part of a larger effort to eliminate firearms on the street. It
resulted in nearly 700K stops in 2011. That got 800 some-odd guns off the
streets of the city at an unknown cost to goodwill (given most people stopped-
and-frisked are Black or Latino).

On the flip side there is no doubt that stop-and-frisk has contributed to one
of the highest rates of marijuana arrests in the country for NYC. Odd, given
New York state effectively decriminalized small amounts of weed in the 70's.
It's only through a loophole that states publicly displaying the drug makes
possession an arrestable offense and it's been reported that the NYPD
consistently instructs people in stop-and-frisk situations to remove any drugs
from their pocket and present it for inspection prior to frisking, making it
publicly displayed.

Gov. Cuomo called on NY state legislature this year to eliminate the public
display issue, but nothing happened before the end of the January-June
session.

edit: added "small amounts"

~~~
daenz
> it's been reported that the NYPD consistently instructs people in stop-and-
> frisk situations to remove any drugs from their pocket and present it for
> inspection prior to frisking, making it publicly displayed.

That's really interesting. Are you saying that if an officer finds marijuana,
instructs you to remove it, and you refuse, you can't be arrested because you
didn't display it publicly?

~~~
rhizome
No, they say "empty your pockets," and if there is pot there, they charge you
not only with possession, but display as well.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
This is one of those things where I say "isn't that illegal?"

And then realise it's the people enforcing the law who are breaking it. Even
if it isn't illegal, no chance they'd enforce that.

~~~
Symmetry
Judges don't always stand for stuff like this, though I assume most of the
people caught in this manner are leaned on until they plea bargain.

A while ago a family was flying out to visit their home in Africa and carrying
a large amount of cash. When asked how much they had they said something like
"About $4,000" and the agent they were talking to said that the estimate was
fine and instructed them to write that down. When they got further in, though,
another agent insisted that the money be counted and when it came out a bit
higher than was written down used this as an excuse to seize the money. After
a lengthy court battle, though, the family got the money back.

~~~
jlgreco
I wonder how much money they spent trying to get their money back..

~~~
Symmetry
I don't know, but apparently I misremembered the amount of money. Here's the
ruling from the judge: <http://www.volokh.com/wp-
content/uploads/2012/04/35131.pdf>

------
nateabele
It's a pretty safe bet that no such thing would ever pass a state legislature,
but in cases where it can be demonstrated that an officer's behavior is
_clearly_ illegal, there need to be provisions for the officer to be held
_personally_ liable: no more hiding behind the city or the department.

Again, not that it'd likely ever happen, but hey, petitioning your elected
representatives never (okay, rarely) hurt.

~~~
travisp
In this recent case, NYC officials are refusing to defend a police inspector
in lawsuits against him: [http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/08/03/city-wont-
defend-nypd...](http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/08/03/city-wont-defend-nypd-
officer-in-occupy-pepper-spray-lawsuit/)

However, his union is now paying for his defense.

~~~
Symmetry
Well, legally speaking the union has to defend him no matter what he does.

------
ggchappell
FTA:

> I was taking pictures of something that was really wasn’t anything shocking
> for them. There was no police line. Ive been doing this a long time and its
> frustrating. Im credentialed. They asked for the credential, I’m shooting,
> the next thing I know I’m in jail and my equipment is confiscated.

Serious question: Why does/should it matter that he is credentialed?

~~~
dedward
It shouldn't - but it being NYC, and being a veteran reporter for the NYT,
with your classic credentials just drives the point home even harder as
there's no room to debate whether it was journalism or not....

------
dromidas
I really hope he presses charges and brings yet another wrongful suit against
the state. Police officers must be held accountable for things they do and if
it is a public area then they should act accordingly. A judge already ruled
this many times, when will they learn.

~~~
fotbr
He won't. Just read the article - he's already apologizing for the officers'
behavior and just wants his equipment back.

~~~
rhizome
Hope they don't wage asset forfeiture on him.

~~~
beedogs
It's the NYPD. They'll wage whatever they want on him; they consider
themselves well above the law.

------
adrianwaj
"He was charged with obstructing government administration and with resisting
arrest as he was taking photographs of a brewing street fight in New York that
involved a teenage girl."

Let's call it for what it is... the police were enjoying watching the fight
and didn't want to be disturbed. What happened to the girl or rather the
attacker? nothing, the justice was instead leveled at Stolarik, and what's he
going to do back, nothing. What a shit hole NYC must be. (I might be wrong
too)

~~~
dedward
As a tourist, NYC was pretty awesome, far better than I expected. Then again,
it's awfully hard to generalize about a city that has the population of my
country.

------
mikemarotti
Interesting, but what does this have to do with HN?

~~~
paulsutter
Privacy and civil liberties are immensely important to the technology
entrepreneur. We need to be aware of the legal pitfalls of technology, and be
sensitive to the privacy risks we can create. I find this story very relevant
to HN.

For example, if you are creating an app that records sound or images, you
would want to be aware of the risks to camera users. Especially if that camera
is less obvious than the camera used by the photographer in this story. The
law seems to be on the side of the photographer but the realities are complex.

This is covered under the HN guidelines, as the intersection between
technology, privacy, and civil liberties is definitely an interesting new and
ongoing phenomenon.

~~~
tptacek
Every civil liberties story ever posted to HN has been accompanied by that
justification, and, were it to be taken seriously, there would be nothing
_but_ social justice stories on HN, there being no dearth of important social
justice stories to find on any given day.

~~~
Steko
"were it to be taken seriously, there would be nothing but social justice
stories"

Total non-sequitur. I'm not saying I think this is a good HN article to upvote
but the idea that this is somehow going to exclude everything else is bizarre.

~~~
tptacek
I think you misread (or, equally likely, I wrote unclearly). I'm not saying
"if you take the article seriously, we'll have nothing but social justice
stories". I'm saying that if you take the premise that social justice is
inherently interesting to hackers, then we'll end up with nothing but those
stories.

Many people here, myself very much included, get their social justice stories
in a different section of their RSS readers. It's not that those stories
aren't interesting; it's that they simply aren't Hacker News, any more than
updates about Girl Talk albums are Hacker News because hackers are so likely
to listen to them.

~~~
jcc80
I completely understand you don't want this type of article on HN. But, you
don't need to worry the site will _only_ be articles on social justice if
hackers find the topic "inherently interesting." Most people here are
inherently interested in a variety of topics and that's why the community
makes room for a few these "off-topic" stories.

~~~
prodigal_erik
Broken window theory. The rate of civil rights outrages worldwide is more than
high enough to overwhelm the forum, so the number of completely off topic
stories only remains low thanks to people visibly objecting to them.

------
fleitz
I think the reporter may be suffering from stockholm syndrome.

~~~
darien
He wants to keep his job at the NYTimes. If he is known as an biased
photographer who 'agitates' police, he won't be sent on certain assignments.

~~~
fleitz
Yes, one should always keep their impartiality towards human rights. It's
important that journalists refrain from writing pieces which advocate human
rights.

~~~
darien
Photojournalists follow a slightly different standard of operations than
reporters. They are supposed to let images speak for themselves and work as an
impartial observer. This is the attitude that allows them to be embedded in
dangerous war zones where hopefully they wont be shot or kidnapped...

~~~
thinkingisfun
Here are some quotes from James Nachtwey:

"I want my work to become part of our visual history, to enter our collective
memory and our collective conscience. I hope it will serve to remind us that
history's deepest tragedies concern not the great protagonists who set events
in motion but the countless ordinary people who are caught up in those events
and torn apart by their remorseless fury. I have been a witness, and these
pictures are my testimony. The events I have recorded should not be forgotten
and must not be repeated."

"I used to call myself a war photographer. Now I consider myself as an antiwar
photographer."

"There is a job to be done...to record the truth. I want to wake people up!"

Doesn't sound impartial to me.. and Nachtwey is no noob, to put it mildly.
Embedded or not, anyone calling themselves photo _journalist_ ought to learn
from him and others.

People who can remain impartial in the face of suffering or abuse of power
aren't being professional, they're being sociopaths. It takes a strong, big
heart to not be impartial and still do the job, sure. It's not for everybody.
So what. Lead, follow or get out of the way :P

------
olalonde
As a side note, why do Americans frequently refer to the New York police
department by its acronym (NYPD) instead of simply calling it "the police"? Is
it because this particular police department is distinct from other "regular"
police departments? I find it a bit strange since I don't recall observing
this phenomenon for any other city's police departments (except maybe LAPD).

~~~
galadriel
Because most of the police force in US in maintained by local government, like
cities or counties. Since laws vary from state to state and cities to cities,
it is helpful to mention where the incident is taking place. Mentioning NYPD
tells you a lot of things at once- that the incident is specific to New York
city (since state and federal authorities were not involved), and that it was
done by local police force of New York city, which has very distinct operating
pattern and policies from some other police force, like one in LA (the LAPD),
or some small rural police force.

As to why LAPD and NYPD are famous, that must be probably because these two
cities have incidents that are worth national/international discussion. If you
start reading more local US news, they usually mention which police department
is involved in the case, like the county head or State attorney, etc.

------
mariuolo
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/apr/24/usa.comment>

