
Effectiveness of honey for symptomatic relief in respiratory tract infections - bookofjoe
https://ebm.bmj.com/content/early/2020/07/28/bmjebm-2020-111336
======
btilly
My family recipe for colds has been a hot honey and lemon.

Cover the bottom of the cup with a layer of honey. Put as much lemon as you
think they can take. Pour boiling hot water in. Stir, and drink.

I have no idea how well it works for sickness. But it works amazingly well for
symptom relief.

~~~
orev
You’ll notice a common thing in all cold remedies (tea, hot honey tea, hot
lemon tea, hot honey and lemon, hot chicken soup, hot broth, etc): they are
all hot liquids that you consume over a few minutes (instead of a pill that
you just swallow). The secret is the hot liquid melts the mucus and opens up
your airways.

Plain hot water works just as well as any other remedy, and doesn’t have any
extra sugar or caffeine that you might not want.

~~~
DoreenMichele
You need to back that up with heavy duty studies if you want it taken
seriously on HN.

I have done a metric fuck ton of home remedies for respiratory stuff. I don't
think that is remotely accurate.

~~~
orev
I’m not saying anything that requires extraordinary evidence, even basic
medical sites say this:

[https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-
preventi...](https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-
prevention/the-dos-and-donts-of-easing-cold-symptoms)

[https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/common-
cold/i...](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/common-cold/in-
depth/cold-remedies/art-20046403)

~~~
DoreenMichele
I don't readily see any mention in your first link. Your second link says:

 _Sip warm liquids. A cold remedy used in many cultures, taking in warm
liquids, such as chicken soup, tea or warm apple juice, might be soothing and
might ease congestion by increasing mucus flow._

I'm not disputing that warm liquids help. The thing I take issue with is your
claim that the warm liquid is all that really matters and you can just use hot
water and it's superior to consuming stuff with sugar etc.

Ironically, right below the above quote of _your_ source, it says as a
separate suggestion:

 _Try honey. Honey may help coughs in adults and children who are older than
age 1. Try it in hot tea._

[https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/common-
cold/i...](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/common-cold/in-
depth/cold-remedies/art-20046403)

~~~
orev
It's the very first point in the first link:

 _Stay hydrated: ... drinking warm liquids can be soothing, prevent
dehydration and ease congestion._

The honey thing in the second link is not at all ironic. "Try honey in your
hot beverage" is pretty straightforward. Honey tastes good, so try it in your
_hot_ beverage. Again it follows the common theme.

~~~
DoreenMichele
I have super bad eyesight and a serious medical condition. I sometimes have
trouble finding things that other people think are pretty obvious. I stated
explicitly I didn't _readily_ see it. The implicit message there is that I
don't doubt that it's there, but I, personally, can't find it quickly enough
for me to feel it is worth pursuing to have some fairly trivial argument on
the internet.

We seem to be failing to communicate on my main point.

I agree that warm liquids help. I'm not disputing that.

But showing that doesn't actually show that the hot liquid is the only "active
ingredient" and nothing else matters such that just drinking hot water is an
adequate substitute for a variety of home remedies where the theme is hot
liquids. You aren't providing any support for that point.

I am disputing that specific point. I don't think it is true and I don't think
you have provided any support for it.

------
anonAndOn
Isn't honey greatly affected by the flowers used to make it, eg manuka,
clover, etc.?[0] So it may not be "honey" but a particular type of honey(s)
that have beneficial effects.

~~~
gwittel
Could be. Different honey also has differing flavor, consistency, etc. As an
example, our local honey supplier suggested one type for sore throats -
tarweed honey. It was thicker and had a much stronger flavor. Theory was it
would stick longer (have yet to try).

Flavor wise it was not what I’d want to use for regular consumption, but if it
works better when sick? Sure.

------
Jimmc414
This might be the rare circumstance where this is helpful to mention. Costco
has a very affordable (relatively) offering of Manuka honey right now. This is
the strain that in several studies has shown powerful antibiotic properties to
combat MRSA.

~~~
LargoLasskhyfv
I´m surprised seeing it popping up in mass retail because it was always
advertised as something rather rare and special and only available in low
volumes via speciality stores.

edit: Ah yes, see
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C4%81nuka_honey#Adulteration](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C4%81nuka_honey#Adulteration)

~~~
Jimmc414
I share your skepticism, but I believe it's the real deal in this instance at
least. [https://www.costco.com/manuka-health-20%2b-raw-manuka-
honey%...](https://www.costco.com/manuka-health-20%2b-raw-manuka-
honey%c2%a0.product.100567043.html)

~~~
LargoLasskhyfv
Thx, I've seen that already and wondered why no _Kirkland_ :-)

------
burlesona
I’m not a doctor so please correct me if I’m interpreting this incorrectly. It
seems the TLDR is:

1\. There are few effective treatments for upper respiratory tract infection.

2\. The authors combined all studies currently done on the efficacy of honey
to estimate how it compares to conventional treatment (antibiotics).

3\. Honey appears to help slightly more than conventional treatment (just at
managing symptoms?).

4\. They recommend further studies with placebo control to learn more.

That’s interesting and kind of surprising to me. How does one use honey as a
treatment? Just eat some? How much? How often? Etc.

~~~
yomly
What bit about it surprises you? Honey is a natural antibacterial (it never
goes off - archaeologists have been known to get kicks out of tasting ancient
roman honey) it also is also nice and sticky which helps coat the treatment
area, protecting it from further irritation.

Nature is full of wonders (like the tensile strength of spiders web)

~~~
orev
Honey doesn’t go bad for the same reason that a bag of sugar or bag of salt
doesn’t — it’s an environment that’s unsuitable for life. Sugar is
hygroscopic, so it sucks all the water out of cells so they die. If you
diluted honey in water, it would go bad just as quickly as any other sugary
drink.

Honey is not some magical potion, it was just engineered by bees to have
specific properties.

~~~
yomly
A cursory google about honey's antimicrobial properties suggest it's really
not as trivial as the hygroscopic properties of sugar although I am
comfortable agreeing that will be a contributing factor. So unless you're an
expert in the field, I'd be curious to know where your certainty comes from.

I never asserted it was a magical potion but after studying biochemistry,
pharmacology and medicinal chemistry, I was pretty humbled by how little we
humans think we know, and how primitive our methods are when compared against
nature at problem solving.

Our physiology is exquisitely sensitive, the fact that nature has found ways
to exploit even things like kinetic isotope effects to good use undermines all
kinds of naive assumptions we like to model over like "the chemistry elements
express is the same across its isotopes". Modern medicine is still a woefully
blunt tool in the face of the future of possibilities.

So when the bees "engineered" honey to be a certain way, I like it as a
product because it's been through an iterative design process and "clinical
trials" for the course of millennia, if you will...

------
beagle3
Granny style remedy that I haven't seen mentioned here:

cut thin slices of onion, coat top of slice with honey, possibly put another
layer of onion slices and another layer of honey or more. Put all of this in a
closed container, in room-or-slightly colder temperature (but not fridge) for
a few hours.

Fumes from the onion melt the honey making it much more liquidy. Honey sips
into onion and makes it less sharp.

Eat onion and/or drink honey/onion liquid (or take with a spoon - it is quite
intense). Put in fridge if you don't use all at once. Also nice as a condiment
for some foods.

Possibly placebo, but tends to help with cold and headaches.

~~~
DoreenMichele
Not a placebo at all. I use onion as lung support. I have serious respiratory
problems.

