
Start-Up Chile is OK. Nothing more. - ragnarsass
http://liispeetermann.tumblr.com/post/26064265686/start-up-chile-is-ok-nothing-more#.T-xIPystjNs
======
jot
Very well said. I particularly agree with the list describing the kinds of
companies that can get the most out of Start-Up Chile.

It's critical that participants have the right expectations but Start-Up Chile
create a huge amount of marketing fluff which seems to get in the way of that.
Now they have had well over 300 participants I hope they start focusing on
communicating success stories (there are a few) and the learnings (there are
loads) rather than "the dream" and "the vision". Enough interesting things
happened over the last 18 months that they shouldn't really need to use old
school marketing techniques any more.

I previously commented about my recommended set of Start-Up Chile expectations
here:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3811445>

------
DanielBMarkham
I like the idea of Startup Chile. After reading this article, I still like
most of it, except for trust issues.

I'm not in favor of video surveillance, but if I ran Startup Chile, I'd be
adding some cameras all over the place. Maybe go to a badge system for
building access and egress.

Not being safe enough to leave your gear on the desk while you go to lunch or
something is a big red flag that something's wrong. You can't have an open and
free environment when folks are having to padlock everything they own and
don't trust the guy next to them not to walk off with their iPad.

~~~
davidw
> Not being safe enough to leave your gear on the desk while you go to lunch
> or something is a big red flag that something's wrong. You can't have an
> open and free environment when folks are having to padlock everything they
> own and don't trust the guy next to them not to walk off with their iPad.

That just seems really weird... Is it other people in the program, or do
outside people have access, or...?

Changing subjects, I hope someone will do an analysis of the whole program 5
years from now to see what the results of it are. How many companies
came/stayed/grew/died/etc...

~~~
stfu
_I hope someone will do an analysis of the whole program 5 years from now to
see what the results of it are. How many companies
came/stayed/grew/died/etc..._

Good point. It would be also interesting to know how the perception of Chile
has changed in entrepreneurial circles through this program. I think this is
really a unique idea and so far it seems as they did at least an acceptable
job of running it.

~~~
j_camarena
Hey stfu! .. haha.. im part of the program and i think it has changed the
point of view of some chileans. By now i have done mentorship for two
university students and im sure their life-path has changed.

One of them has already raised $16k (little but enough for a 2-months
project).

The other one is still developing the project but at least is working on it
:).

None of those guys was taking this seriously until they saw young people being
part of Startup Chile program. This is just the people i have been in close
contact with and im pretty sure there are lots of cases like this ones.

~~~
stfu
Very cool, that's really a great way of giving back! I really hope that this
is going to have a sustainable impact for Chile. They definitely deserve it
for taking such a unique way of stimulating an innovative environment. How do
you see generally speaking the "sticking" rate? What percentage of people in
the program are most likely to stay there for longer than just the time they
got the Startup Chile financing?

------
IanOzsvald
I spent today (Thursday) talking with the Executive Director (Horacio) and a
few of the senior staff members. I presented this morning on Lean Startup
processes for the newly-arrived.

I'm in Round 2, I've been giving feedback for months to the staff. The
feedback I got today about changes they're making during Round 4 (for those
just arriving now) is pretty impressive. If they carry it all off then the
programme will be improved by a fair margin for subsequent Rounds.

The improvements are still under discussion but ought to address many of the
mentorship/fund raising/expectation issues that have been raised (at least - I
have cautious optimism that that's the case).

Disclaimer - I don't work for SUP, I'm almost finished here in Round 2, I've
had my complaints during the programme but generally they're
reacting/improving to the significant issues. Things are improving for every
new Round.

~~~
IanOzsvald
Horacio (exec director) today announced the changes that I'd hinted at
yesterday (I didn't know this was happening when I posted yesterday).

Changes being rolled in: * Mentorship - try to provide mentors for all *
Traction Groups - get companies to start and join private self-mentorship
groups (based around the prototype I organised in this round:
[http://ianozsvald.com/2012/05/16/mentorship-groups-in-
startu...](http://ianozsvald.com/2012/05/16/mentorship-groups-in-
startupchile/) ) * Roadshow in Silicon Valley - after Demo Days take companies
up to the Bay Area and run an investment/demo road show * Academy - online &
face to face courses for StartupChile members to learn about business basics
(e.g. lean processes, pitching, sales etc) * Top 20 Accelerator - cherry pick
a top set of companies and super-accelerate them (private mentorship, focus on
growth etc)

I don't know the details of the above changes, the ideas will evolve and a lot
of questions are raised. What interests me is how a lot of the current
programme criticisms (e.g. lack of mentorship, DemoDay not being too cool,
lack of peer mentorship) should be addressed (and then some).

As stated yesterday I'm not employed by StartupChile, I'm nearly finished with
Round 2. As much as I've criticised the programme in the past I continue to be
impressed at how quickly they're iterating and improving.

------
amix
I don't agree with her list of companies that should apply to Startup Chile.
For example, Startup Chile is great for bootstrapping companies. You get 6
months and $40.000 USD to test out your idea. You visit an amazing country and
another culture. You can learn another language. Startup Chile is a great
choice for people that are ready to make the jump from a boring job to
starting their own thing.

And even if you are experienced doing startups it's still awesome to visit
another culture and see how things work in another place. Maybe you won't like
it that much, but at least you experienced it.

What Startup Chile isn't good at is creating companies that need VC funding or
Silicon Valley connections. If your startup needs these things then don't look
for it in Chile or anywhere else... because you won't find it here or anywhere
else.

~~~
theycallmemorty
Don't you have to promise to hire people to get the $40K?

~~~
peterjancelis
No, in the pilot round you got RVA points for hiring locals but they dropped
that in later rounds so it is not even explicitly encouraged right now.

------
ashray
I have to say that I don't really agree with the overall assessment made over
here. It appears that a lot of people come to Startup Chile expecting the
wrong things.

Why would you come to Chile and expect:

\- There will be no bureaucracy (this is a government run program..)

\- You won't have to give anything (RVAs) at all back - (equity free capital
in return for what ? in that case..)

\- Connections to US accelerators and investors (WTF ?)

To be honest, it's unrealistic to expect all of the above. I do agree that
Startup Chile can do MANY good things (connections to latin american
investors, more guidance/mentorship, etc.) but why not take into account the
fact that this is a young program being run by a government in a country with
very less startup experience.

Here are some positive points I've heard from people:

\- Use government connections. Folks who have their startups in fields where
government help can work eg. education, social service, etc. are able to
uniquely utilize startup chile's clout in the government sector.

\- Learn some Spanish.

\- Do something relevant. You're hardly going to get support if you're
designing a product that solves a problem in the US or elsewhere (with no
possible extension into Latin America). Besides, why would a local investor be
interested in that case ?

As for the part where filing statements, getting reimbursed, etc. - there's no
need to whine about that. The processes have been streamlined a lot over the
past few months and these guys seem to be working on it more, there is
definitely good faith involved and it's not all "Oh yeah we're going to make
them WORK for their money". They just need to be sure that your expenses are
justified. I know of people who are trying to squeeze out an iPhone or two in
their reimbursements. They naturally have to be very careful due to the fact
that this is taxpayers money.

Furthermore, all the pains of startup chile are pretty well known. It is
definitely not an accelerator, you will probably not have a lot of events and
guidance. But, if $40k equity free capital and a reasonable amount of freedom
(in how you use it..) are important to you - then sure, I think it's a program
worthy of mention.

/ Just sick of all the whining that goes on about how Startup Chile doesn't
connect you to the US blah blah blah.. -- why should it ? Also the sense of
entitlement a lot of people carry is sickening. A lot of folks seem to treat
startup chile as a 'gap year' and then whine about how they didn't manage to
make the next $1B company (not saying that the author is doing this...).
That's just messed up.

------
ccarpenterg
The main Startup Chile drawbacks are:

\- they don't invest on you, instead they give you access to a grant

\- there are no real investors backing the program

\- there are no real entrepreneurs backing the program

\- they don't know anything about technology

\- nobody is thinking about getting rich except the entrepreneurs joining the
program.

EDIT: Well actually there are local entrepreneurs too.

~~~
prateekdayal
> nobody is thinking about getting rich expcept the foreign entrepreneurs.

What makes you think the foreign entrepreneurs are better than the local ones?
I have not seen any such pattern in Startup Chile. In fact some of the best
products (and teams) are Chilean.

~~~
yummyfajitas
I was under the impression that Startup Chile gives some
preference/reservations to local teams.

In any selection process, any group that gets a boost due to irrelevant
factors needs to meet a lower standard. Typically, a group of people meeting a
lower standard will be inferior to a group of people meeting a higher
standard.

Of course, if I'm wrong about Startup Chile boosting local teams, this
reasoning wouldn't apply. Anyone know what their policies are?

~~~
peterjancelis
In the first round no Chilean teams were allowed, second round they opened it
up and now the rumor is they are moving towards more and more Chileans
because, frankly, some foreign teams scam the system and go on a 6 month $40K
holiday.

------
dazbradbury
Thanks for the write-up - really good to see more experiences of the
programme.

We were offered a space to be in the same batch as you, but we kind of
realised this would be the case _before_ going. Whilst the money was
attractive, the admin, the inflexibility on the length of the programme, and
the fact it would be a distraction to actually launching our product meant we
just stayed bootstrapped working from home.

Notably, the fact they don't give you the money up-front shows that they're
not investing in your company (and that they have no interest in equity). You
are going to be made to work for that cash - and that work is time not spent
on your startup.

I'm confident we launched quicker this way - whether we would have made a
killer connection to make or break our company through the programme, I guess
we will never know! But it does seem unlikely from your review and the others
that have gone before it.

------
FelixP
I think the author's complaint that all of the beneficial events, connections,
etc. came from the participants and not the organization is a bit misplaced.
After all, the whole point of Startup Chile (as I understand it) is to provide
exactly this kind of networking, resources, etc. from foreigners because it's
not really available in Chile today.

That being said, there's really no excuse for having poorly-secured and lit
office space.

------
deepGem
One red flag- 100 working hours for getting all the paperwork done to get paid

Otherwise, I think the program is pretty clear about it's objectives from the
get go. It's about bringing techies/entrepreneurs from all over the world to
start businesses in Chile.

Expecting exposure to US investors is not fair I think. But the program should
provide exposure to Latin American investors.

~~~
rimbo789
The 100 hours really surprised me. The rules are different for each round, but
least for my team in the second round we have not had to spent that much time
on it. We probably spent no more than 30 hours and that is generous. However I
guess it depends on the type of company and the kind of expenses.

Overall I have found people's perspective on the program depend entirely on
assumptions and expectations before they arrive. If you expect a suitcase of
cash when you land, if you expect all the processes to be pre-arranged, if you
expect to never have to deal with any bureaucracy, you will be in for a
surprise. If you expect lots of opportunities to network and get connections,
if you expect that the government will throw the odd curve-ball now and then,
then SUP will be what you expect.

~~~
IanOzsvald
Me again (Round 2) - I spent 2 days doing the first reimbursement (following
instructions, taking advice from Round 1 people) and then 1 day or less for
each subsequent monthly meeting (including having the meeting). Write-up from
a few months back: [http://ianozsvald.com/2012/03/24/this-week-in-startups-
stron...](http://ianozsvald.com/2012/03/24/this-week-in-startups-strongsteam-
pitch-reimbursements-mentorship/)

All in I'd expect 1-2 days per reimbursement meeting (including meeting time),
less as you get better at it, less if you reimburse just a few big things
(rather than lots of small stuff). Cash payments require less proof (less
paperwork) than debit or credit cards (CCs require most). That's about all
there is to it.

------
dazbradbury

        "I believe companies with the following would get the most out of Start-Up Chile"
    

This list is what Startup Chile should be using to vet its applicants to
ensure that no startup comes away feeling the programme wasn't really right
for them - it's a shame that people will go with one expectation, only for
reality to be vastly different. It only harms their image in the longer term -
even if the number of participants looks impressive at first.

------
nico
I think the post author is right in the sense that Startup Chile is not for
everybody, but I also think she was expecting everything to be provided to her
as part of the program. I believe there are some good criticisms, like the one
about office security (although, you should really get your own office, that's
what the money is for), but most of it seems like unmatched expectations (she
was expecting the same experience she and other members of her team had at
american startup accelerators, and like she says, Startup Chile is not an
accelerator/incubation program).

She also talks about not having access to mentors, and I know that is not
completely accurate. Startup Chile has a mentorship system (godfather/godsons)
in which experienced entrepreneurs help the teams participating in the
program.

I was there for Demo Day too, there were two rooms with presentations. And
even though they had some pretty bad technical issues at the room I was in,
the whole thing there was in English (I can't say anything about the other
room).

I hope that in spite of her disappointments, she had a good experience and
that Startup Chile keeps improving in the future.

~~~
jot
The "mentorship system" you've heard of isn't a mentorship system. When it
works it connects you with a friendly Chilean that can help you by picking you
up from the airport, helping you find accommodation, introducing you to other
friendly locals and showing you around the city. They are generally no more
experienced or connected than participants in the program. Sadly it works less
than 50% of the time - most participants rarely see the "mentors" they've been
assigned to.

They could be more useful to the startups if they were provided with some
mentorship training and if there was some light-weight facilitation like YC's
Office Hours to help it along.

~~~
nico
I didn't know that there were mentors who were not experienced entrepreneurs.
I have several (very successful and experienced entrepreneurs) friends, who
are mentors for Startup Chile participants. They've advised these companies,
hooked them up with important contacts for their businesses and even provided
office space. I guess I generalized that to the whole mentorship system.

~~~
jot
I guess it's luck of the draw. I don't envy Start-Up Chile's task of trying to
find experienced mentors in Chile with time for 300 startups a year.

~~~
nirvana
I think nico is talking about a CORFO program that I've only barely heard
mention as a Startup Chile participant (someone else mentioned getting
mentorship thru it, but I've never seen anything from Startup Chile on how we
could participate).... while jot is talking about the padrino program.

So, two different groups of people.

~~~
nico
I was actually talking about the padrino program and the people I know who are
padrinos for Startup Chile participants.

------
ahmedaly
This program is more than perfect for me. Point. I am from Egypt and can't
find an investor to back me, so I am going to try this out.

Thanks for letting me know about it.

------
helipad
It's slightly concerning that the author talks about people being "green", but
then complaining about having to manage bureaucracy, not having access to a
ready-made network of experts & having to spend your last peso.

Isn't this just part of the life of starting a business?

~~~
jkaljundi
No, in many countries bureaucracy is not part of doing business. Especially in
Estonia where setting up a company or doing anything with the government
public services, taxes, reporting etc takes a few minutes online and is never
done on paper.

~~~
ashray
Yes, but when you start something in Chile you can't expect it to be like
Estonia or elsewhere. ;)

~~~
jkaljundi
Why not?

~~~
pawelwentpawel
Because it's not in estonian.

~~~
ragnarsass
And if this in Chile, it have to be big hassle? Fine, then entrepenuers will
simply ignore this country. Simplez.

~~~
ashray
I think the point was that there would be some obvious differences in systems.
That doesn't mean that they aren't improving their system - it just isn't at
the same place as Estonia yet. Not so hard to understand - right ?

------
peterjancelis
I just graduated from Startup Chile and the main change they should make is
market themselves and Chile as the bootstrap capital of the world. Look at SUP
as a bootstrap opportunity and things make a lot more sense.

------
ahmedaly
Chile Government is very smart... they know that you will spend at least 60%
of the money inside the country.. and there still a small potential to bring
more investment into this, if you settle and get acquired!

------
IanOzsvald
The Round 4 application process was discussed here a week back:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4158967>

It has discussion from Round 2+3 people on the pros and cons of the programme.
Sidenote - I knew Liis (she's lovely), her concerns are echoed by others
(including me). My take on the programme is nonetheless positive, you just
have to come with eyes-wide-open.

------
rdl
The bureaucracy, Spanish, and lack of connections to US investors and
entrepreneurs make it a lot less attractive.

I wonder if a US state or AU/NZ would do something similar someday. English
would be a big advantage, and if they outsourced the management of the
program, they could deal with the bureaucracy, selection, etc. a lot better.

------
Kilimanjaro
I went to Japan 20 yrs ago on a scholarship and the moment I set foot on the
campus I was handed an ATM card with ¥100k ready to use (~$1k), auto
refillable every month.

I love Japan.

~~~
arnoldoMuller
I went as a Monbusho scholar in the period 2004 - 2009 and this is not the
case anymore. Nowadays you spend a lot of time filling forms and getting
access to basic services like cellphones or Internet. They do give you around
¥160K these days...

~~~
personlurking
A few years back, I was to go to Brazil on scholarship. Last minute, the US
university mentioned they paid the money one month in...yet one has to pay at
the start and Brazilian uni starts one month earlier than in US. Catch-22.
Four months of prep, crossing T's and dotting I's and it all went down the
drain.

------
jjm
My interaction with this 'team' came earlier, where I wouldn't email replies
nor pertinent information even when forwarded by 'big names' (to get
attention).

This only backs up my impressions and feedback from others.

As a founder you need a handful of crucial things (amongst so many including
drive to succeed): \- Capital \- Mentors \- Environment

Obviously there are more, but these are important.

------
pawelwentpawel
Thanks for a nice post. However, I'm still wondering about the networking part
of this program. Where were most of the participants from? Was it Latin
America? Also, were there any interesting people to connect with from
Europe/US?

~~~
liispeet
Most of the people were actually from the U.S. (if I remember the stats
correctly), many people from Europe, also from Latin America, but not many
locals inside the program compared to the others. There's a lot of interesting
people for sure! From all around the world!

------
anewguy
What kind of startup is willing to move to Chile for $40K? Two answers:
startups that will benefit from being located in South America, and bad
startups that have a really hard time raising a few thousand dollars and/or
haven't thought through how moving several thousand miles increases their
execution risk.

------
jQueryIsAwesome
Just as a side-note I would like to mention that the Colombian government will
soon start a similar initiative called "Apps.co"[0]; probably is going to be
less attractive than Start-Up Chile but it haves to start somewhere. I would
also like to mention that I am a Colombian developer willing to create a
Start-up in this country; if that is also your case please get in touch (my
email is in my profile).

[0]<http://www.vivedigital.gov.co/appsco/> (Spanish)

