

What skills do you need to be an entrepreneur? Only two. - strandev
http://www.sebastianmarshall.com/what-skills-do-you-need-to-be-an-entrepreneur-only-two

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joshklein
I have a real problem with the way a large number of people on HN dismiss
college because there are better & less expensive ways to learn the things you
need to know and get the credentials you need. Of course there are. The
diagnosis is correct, but the prescription is wrong.

There is no better & less expensive way for someone between the ages of 18 and
21 to surround themselves with people the same age, who are as smart as they
are, and learn how to be a positive social creature.

Maybe it's because I have a liberal arts degree instead of an engineering
degree, but college taught me how to be a person, in the broadest sense. I'm
perfectly happy to admit I went to college because that was "the thing to do,"
and I'm glad I can relate to so many people by virtue of having done it.

My best friends are still the 5 people living on my freshman floor who played
counterstrike on 2ms ping university servers at 4am with our doors open,
shouting at each other down the hall.

College is FUN. F-U-N. It is a highly structured 4-year period where you have
exactly 2 responsibilities: graduate and don't die.

Sure, there might be less expensive ways to socialize, but none that so
forcefully eject you from the shell you built around yourself in high school -
something I suspect many who hope to eventually be in startups have built. You
can say "oh, go to tech meetups", but you can still stand in the corner there,
an intimidated 18-year old, just as easily as anywhere else.

If you can take Guy Kawasaki's advice: live off your parents as long as
humanly possible. And if you have to pay for college yourself, consider it an
investment in what many people consider the best 4 years of their lives.

~~~
cullenking
This is good advice and all, but the problem is many people can't afford to go
to college with just two responsibilities like you have listed. Going to
college and working to help pay for it SUCKS. Some of the most miserable bits
of my life were weeks on end of no sleep because I had a job and
midterms/finals.

So, if you have a well off family or you are willing to go $60k in debt and
make it the most fun experience of your life, then that is one thing. But for
a large portion of practical people who realize the implications of $60k in
unsubsidized school loans, college is a rough four years.

~~~
joshklein
You make a fair point; everyone has to do their own cost/benefit analysis. I
just wanted to challenge the chronic devaluation of some of college's
intangible benefits. Some life experiences are worth more than money, and I've
heard more than a few older folks refer to the best things in their lives as:
1. Kids, 2. Marriage, 3. College.

~~~
cullenking
I agree. I am not discounting what I learned from college, which was how to
suffer through and reach a goal. Can't discount that experience too much :)

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intangible1
I made an account just to comment on this blog...

The part about the rocket scientist just irked me. Why are you trying to
impress upon someone else your beliefs on the importance of money? Some of the
brightest people I know are also the most distant from material goods; as long
as they have a fully belly and a roof over their heads, they are completely
satisfied working on what they want, regardless of monetary compensation.

Of course, HN is full of people chasing after money, but personally, I have a
great respect for people who perform great work for the sake of great work,
and I would NEVER chastise them for not hungering for wealth.

~~~
krschultz
I think his point was that being super smart doesn't mean you are a great
entrepreneur. Nor is being super smart a requirement for being an
entrepreneur.

I agree that money is not the only means to the end (I'll assume most rational
people are trying to maximize their happiness which may or may not involve
more money), but his post was about what makes entrepreneurs. And
entrepreneurs need to put making money #1.

~~~
hessenwolf
I second this. I am super smart and I am a shit entrepreneur. I try, but it's
just pathetic.

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kia
Albert Einstein:

"Education is what is left after you've forgotten everything you've learned."

Learning only things you think you'll need (e.g. coding) limits your thinking
considerably. I always find it amazing how knowledge from absolutely unrelated
fields helps me to solve specific problems.

~~~
sp4rki
I totally agree. You should invest as much time as you can in improving the
quantity and quality of your knowledge on any field and topic that you find
interesting. You always see huge bookshelves with thousands of books in the
home's of the rich and smart. Make sure you've got some Moby Dick and some
Financial Modeling in your bookshelf, and not just X, Y, and Z programming
language for dummies.

That being said, education is a continuous habit of the curious and
intellectual, and not a byproduct of formal education. Four years in college
teaches you very little in the grand scheme of things, and is in lots of cases
not a prerequisite to keep improving your knowledge and skills.

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kds
Brilliantly written, despite the seemingly over-discussed topic - esp. here on
HN.

"Private victory precedes public victory" - this resonated most with me.

~~~
abstractbill
I was curious about that bit. It sounds good, but is it actually _true_? The
thing that makes me skeptical is that I really enjoy reading biographies, and
I can think of plenty of very successful people who were emotional wrecks
(e.g. "tortured geniuses") while they were doing whatever led to their
success.

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lazyant
Rule of thumb: if it has hard Math in it (engineering, physics...) or
labs/facilities you cannot afford (chemistry...) or it requires a degree to
work (medicine...) or you want to be a professor go to college, otherwise
(literature, languages, philosophy, history...) you can do it on your own, it
will be mostly on books.

Computer science is an edge case since it has some math/logic in it, that's
why every two months there's a heated thread in HN/reddit/etc that started by
someone asking or answering "do I need to go to college to be a software
developer?" or similar.

~~~
hessenwolf
In college you are forced to learn all the boring stuff about code
readability, data structures and algorithms, code life cycles,etc...

Most of those I know who have taught themselves code (engineers, physicists,
statisticians and mathematicians) in a non-academic environment spurge
spaghetti, and I hate them to death.

~~~
hessenwolf
Are the minuses because you disagree? Please discuss.

For me, dealing with codebases generated by the untrained is a daily problem.
I do what I can to try and help - I sound like a broken record rattling on
about naming variables what they are and whatnot.

~~~
lazyant
I actually agree in part with what you say regarding having the discipline of
going to class and a teacher versus self-learning.

You are probably being downvoted because of the second sentence talking bad
about self-learned programmers when it's a popular opinion that there are many
self-learned programmers.

I personally only downvote when someone is being rude/out of line or says
something that is flat-out false, never for opinions. I find HN to be harsh
frequently (no specially more so than other inet places but still) and I'm
actually a bad day away of taking the route others have taken and just leave.

~~~
hessenwolf
I may have been too harsh. The problems i see are actually from experts in non
computer science fields. They don't even know that software engineering
exists, and are used to being right.

At least non statisticians are respectful of stats. Doesn't apply to
programming.

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mdolon
Many people who advocate or encourage skipping college in favor of
experience/entrepreneurship overlook one thing: how difficult it is to
succeed. Most real-world businesses end up failing and online entrepreneurship
can be just as cut-throat (if not more), having a college-level degree gives
you at least something to fall back on. College is also a great networking
tool to build the relations that can one day help your startup.

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thirdstation
"3. Selling bottled water for more than you paid on a hot day accomplishes
this, and you could make decent coin doing it…"

I took the most exception at this comment for some reason. I guess because it
seems like a serious suggestion instead of an example of what I understand as
arbitrage. Maybe because it seems the most hand-wavey of all the suggestions.

Yeah, you can sell bottled water on the beach for more than you paid but, I
think it's dubious to say that you can make decent coin in the long, or even
mid-term. When I think "decent coin" I think of an income that can support my
lifestyle and family.

Valuable as a way to learn about business? Sure.

~~~
lsc
>Valuable as a way to learn about business? Sure.

hah. well, it depends on what you want to learn.

I was taught business that way; If anything, in an even lower-paying way. I
grew pumpkins, with my Father's help, and then took them door to door in a
wheelbarrow, selling them. Seventy five cents for the big ones and fifty cents
for the little ones. I made maybe $25-$30 a year that way. I was maybe 10-12
at the time.

The thing of it is, most HN readers, and especially Sebastian, would call me a
loser even today; he would say I'm still overly focused on the "provide value"
side of the coin; the business I spent the last five years on is worth maybe a
cheap south-bay condo[1] right now, and I believe has the lowest margins in
the industry. It pays my rent, sure, but if Sebastian looks down on patio11,
he's going to look down on me, and really, anyone else who takes that view of
business.

[1] note, I actually like doing this, I wouldn't sell at that price; but as
far as I can tell, that's market value, give or take.

~~~
lionhearted
I'd never call you a loser for building stuff in the world. Never. I think
that's fantastic and wish you the best in your endeavors. Additionally, if you
were to drop me a line and asked something I could lend a hand with, I'd do
what I could.

I think weakness and mediocrity sucks, and it's worth fighting to transcend
the weak/mediocre elements of ourselves that we all have. But I'd never look
down on someone for building, I'd never call someone moving forwards a loser,
never. Best wishes in your endeavors.

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JoeAltmaier
Pretty vague: thesis is you only need to add value, and skim some of that
value for yourself. Gosh, wish I'd thought of that.

How about: develop the skills to let you do either of those? Any guidance
there? No, just some handwaving about college either being useful or maybe
not.

~~~
lionhearted
> Any guidance there? No, just some handwaving about college either being
> useful or maybe not.

Did you read past the first three paragraphs?

I put down like ten books, 4-5 websites, another half-dozen authors, and 3-4
things you could try out conduct-wise.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Sorry, no, I didn't - I stopped somewhere between the lemonade stand and the
story about some guy you knew.

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stcredzero
1.5 - Ensure that others know of the value.

(Sort of a prereq or a part of #2.)

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hessenwolf
I started with nothing but a dream, and twelve million pounds in my pocket.

