
New Initiatives for Lyft Drivers - petethomas
http://blog.lyft.com/posts/wetreatyoubetter
======
chipgap98
I know Uber has the dominate market share, but I really enjoy life. I notice
that I get better, friendlier service from the drivers and I like having the
option to tip. They have rolled out a lot of impressive features and programs
recently. I hope, at the very least, their actions will pressure Uber into
some similar moves

~~~
usaphp
Having an option to tip enforces customers to tip, I would prefer using a
service that does not force me to tip by providing that option. I am against
tips in general for drivers.

~~~
chipgap98
Does it enforce customers to tip? You tip via the app well after the ride is
over. I usually don't tip, but occasionally I get a great driver and toss them
a few bucks. They don't make great money so the tip is worth it.

I'm not really sure why you are against tips for drivers.

~~~
mmanfrin

      They don't make great money so the tip is worth it.
    

This is the main issue for me. When tips are allowed, the floor for
pay/remuneration drops. I would much prefer to know that people are paid
sanely for the job they do than to know I am _obligated_ to supplement their
pay.

~~~
neeleshs
Absolutely agree with this point. I hear the same argument for restaurant
waiters and I hate this tipping system that even has suggested tipping tiers.
It only tells me that owners of these establishments are not paying their
employees correctly. I know of places which don't even disburse the tips back
to their employees (when tip is part of receipt)!

~~~
s73v3r
At least in CA, waiters still get full minimum wage.

------
tswartz
I like how Lyft is trying to make it easier for more people to drive for them.
But, after Lyft's cut, tax and gas the hourly rate was very low. I drove for a
couple months and they promised $25 - $35 during peak time, but I netted out
to about $10/hr. Now to add on a Hertz rental fee, that is going to get very
slim.

Obviously this is still a better job for some people then there alternative.
Lyft will market to new drivers with the higher rates and ease of renting a
Hertz vehicle.

~~~
kuschku
The issue is, this is how profitable it is effectively – any driver following
the law will have to pay this much.

And this is why uber can only currently provide their high margins because
they provide no insurance between rides (only during rides), because they
don’t follow laws, etc.

It’s unfair competition, and sadly, people expect Lyft to offer the same.

~~~
SilasX
IMHO, this is a misconception. Most of the benefit of Lyft/Uber comes from app
convenience, being cashless, mutual rating to weed out the jerks, carpooling
efficiency, transparency (easy to get estimates and know if you overpaid),
good customer support, and reliability in getting a ride, all of which are
legal and which cab companies could have done.

They have a lot of room to raise prices before it outweighs those advantages.
Remember, people were using UberBlack (as "UberCab" way back then), which
simply took existing, fully-insured car service drivers, which had no
regulatory advantage, long before UberX/Lyft.

~~~
bsder
As much as I hate the serfitude economy companies, the fact that the cab
companies have not adopted the app approach _boggles my mind_.

I would have _zero_ problem calling a cab, even with the regulated cab prices,
if they had a Lyft/Uber-like app. Hit the button, accepted in 60 seconds,
tracked to your door. The fact that the cab companies _simply won 't do this_
grinds my gears.

This is also why Lyft/Uber grind my gears. _JUST BE A COMPETENT CAB COMPANY_
and people would love you. Uber/Lyft doesn't have to flout the existing laws
while lobbying to get them changed.

~~~
SilasX
Curb and Flywheel don't meet your criteria?

------
alexbock
I found it interesting that this program is starting in Vegas given the
trouble Uber has had there [1]. I don't hear about Lyft nearly as much as
Uber, but I haven't heard any stories about Lyft running into issues with taxi
regulations (which seem to show up here weekly for Uber). Do taxi companies
find Lyft more palatable for some reason? Or has Uber just been the figurehead
taking most of the heat in the news for all of the other ridesharing companies
running into issues with taxi regulations?

[1] [http://www.reviewjournal.com/columns-blogs/john-l-
smith/mask...](http://www.reviewjournal.com/columns-blogs/john-l-smith/masked-
men-descend-uber-drivers-riders)

------
intopieces
This is a picture of an industry right before being automated. Rather than
relying on skilled drivers with knowledge of the area, the industry can rely
on computers to do most of the work. Reduction in labor costs, which are
partially subsidized by coupons provided by partner companies who also make
money. When driverless cars become widespread, Hertz can provide the cars and
Verizon the on-board WiFi.

------
nathanb
This is actually really cool.

I can't tell you how many people I know whose livelihood essentially depends
on their single, aging vehicle not dying. These are often folks whose
university debt is, essentially, a monthly car payment.

I would guess that the greatest demand for Lyft drivers is outside or nearly
outside normal working hours. If a person with no car can subsidize a long-
term rental by spending their after-work hours being a Lyft driver, perhaps
arranging to leave work slightly early to help with the after-work rush, that
could be a huge benefit to a lot of low-income individuals and families.

It could also be a benefit to families with one car. If one partner uses the
car to commute and the other can subsidize a rental, that could provide
opportunities to earn _something_ which might otherwise not exist (not every
location is amenable to public transportation or cycling).

There are certainly some potential problems with this model. But looking
through the eyes of an under-privileged family, I can see this being a huge
opportunity too. I just hope the pay rate and the negotiated rental rate and
fuel rate are enough to make more than a pittance at the end of the day.

------
mmaunder
Some nice moves from Lyft. Feels like they've really upped their game with
this and it will be an incredible case study if they're able to surpass Uber
who has a head-start, which almost never happens.

Reminds me of the days when alltheweb had just become the popular SE beating
AltaVista, Excite and others, and Google stormed in and cleaned up.

~~~
shalmanese
Lyft had the headstart (and Sidecar was earlier than Lyft). Uber had their
UberBlack program but didn't jump into the ridesharing pool until nearly a
year after Lyft did.

------
jjoe
Delayed payouts are one way for businesses to minimize loss should a
chargeback occur. But now that Lyft pays out instantly, they're at risk of
losing the payout (> $50) + $chargeback_fee. Is the wording of the
announcement code for "Stripe is shielding us from exorbitant transaction
fallout costs"?

~~~
ThrustVectoring
Not necessarily - they could be self-insuring. Given their historical
chargeback data, they've got a fairly good amount of information about how
much money it would cost them to eat chargebacks. Lyft may suspect that
they're getting their money's worth in terms of non-pay driver compensation,
loyalty, and marketing.

------
on_
I like ridesharing, great market offering for consumers and drivers. Using a
rental agency like this is good because those cars are underutilized and that
can help people without cars provide service. Initially, i was going to
snarkily compare this to cab companies, and the point still stands the
economics arent great but it is a decent trade in some scenarios.

I don't have a car, and I would be willing to drive lyft for limited funds AND
access to the vehicle. Sure you couldn't take the car on vacation, but if you
could make a bit of money and knock out some errands locally, I could see this
catching on. The magnitude and evonomics might not be there for everyone, but
the cars would just be at Hertz so it could be a positive thing for both
parties.

------
stevebmark
Happy to see Lyft dealing with the Breeze parasite
[https://www.joinbreeze.com/](https://www.joinbreeze.com/)

~~~
DarthMader
Lol. Nice way to inadvertently plug them. What specifically do you hate about
breeze?

------
draw_down
Yeah. That's what a taxi is.

------
rdl
This seems very dangerously like W2 employees using employer provided
equipment to do a task, even if it's rented by a rental company. (IANAL)

~~~
toomuchtodo
I mean, we're past that discussion aren't we? Uber and other rideshares are
going to have to start classifying drivers as employers eventually (at least
until self-driving cars get here). Legal determinations are already headed in
this direction.

~~~
rdl
It'd be interesting if someone got in front of that and ran Uber-Prime with
Uber-Prime, Inc. employees as drivers, driving vehicles leased by Uber-Prime,
Inc. Maybe go upmarket of Uber by offering a 100% guaranteed rape-free
experience for your minor children, borderline medical transport,
incapacitated people, rich/scared people, etc.

~~~
bduerst
Wouldn't work because Uber pays per person, not to a company. You'd have to
get drivers to voluntarily give a cut of their take home to pay for insurance,
the car, etc. without having a way to track what they actually make.

~~~
intopieces
>You'd have to get drivers to voluntarily give a cut of their take home to pay
for insurance, the car, etc. without having a way to track what they actually
make.

This is exactly what they do now, they just don't pay Uber, they pay those
companies directly. But as a company with employees, they could negotiate a
deal to get cars for cheaper, negotiate a better insurance rate, and save the
driver the hassle.

But then we've come full circle, inviting regulations that drive up costs.
This is an attempt to stay on the edge of that.

~~~
toomuchtodo
> inviting regulations that drive up costs.

Did you mean applying labor regulations where they're supposed to be applied?
Of course employing people under labor law has a cost.

~~~
intopieces
Yes, that's precisely what I mean. And that's what makes this kind of move
from Lyft so interesting. They're walking a fine line. Banking on the time it
takes to be regulated as runway for pivoting to automation. Google says
they'll be delivering fully autonomous cars by 2020. If we give Google til
12/31/20, that's more than 5 years out. Seems like Uber/Lyft will be regulated
hard before that, unless they've got something up their sleeve.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Ahh, sorry about that! I misunderstood.

~~~
intopieces
Off topic: I'm always looking for ways to make myself better understood. I
think by using the term "we", I gave the impression that I'm personally
concerned about costs and that I actively support businesses skirting labor
laws to save costs. Not my intention, but I can see how one could concluce
that.

------
septerr
what if Uber/Lyft etc let you lend your car to drivers? So instead of sitting
in the parking lot, an uber driver could be driving it. Uber/Lyft could
background check the drivers. I wonder if it will be worthwhile for them to
provide insurance against theft. The driver would also need to be added to
your personal insurance I guess....the insurance companies might eventually
come up with plans specific for this type of scenarios.

------
mfringel
So, I can't tell from Uber's site, but is Uber doing similar things for their
drivers that actually save them money, as opposed to finding new ways to make
money off of them?

------
7Figures2Commas
Maybe I'm just not hip to the whole Uber/Lyft thing, but the idea of being
chauffeured around by somebody in a Hertz rental car doesn't sound at all
appealing.

~~~
jonknee
What is the difference between someone's personal car you'll never ride in
again or a rental car you'll never ride in again? Taxis are typically rented
by the day too, but who cares other than the driver and the rental company?

