

Iran Removed From All Major Travel Sites   - yread
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5825577/

======
discardorama
"Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate. Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"

Who's putting up a wall now?

It's funny that when it came to USSR and China, we believed that people-to-
people contact would improve relations. Why doesn't the same apply to Cuba and
Iran?

~~~
dspillett
I'd suggest that in the case of Iran it is a responsibility issue rather than
a politics one. While they have just elected a more west-friendly president
there are large parts of the country that are dangerous for outsiders. I'd
guess the companies in question might prefer to lose a few sales rather than
have the "you booked it, didn't you check where you were going first?" / "you
should have warned as at booking time, it is all your fault!" argument.

I'm not sure where Cuba fits in with my little theory though.

~~~
discardorama
>> there are large parts of the country [Iran] that are dangerous for
outsiders.

Are you kidding me? Have you seen the Rick Steve's special on Iran? I'm
bringing RS up because anecdotal evidence wouldn't fly much around here. But
please open your mind and take a look.

Every account I've read of travel in Iran has been very positive. It is a much
safer country to travel in than, say, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc.

~~~
astrodust
Probably safer than some parts of Oakland and Washington D.C., too.

~~~
mpyne
DC is actually fairly safe nowadays (except perhaps for Northeast or
Anacostia, but no one is going to end up there by accident).

~~~
astrodust
Relative to historical periods, yes, but it's still a war-zone compared to
what I'm used to.

The 2010 statistics indicate a homicide rate of 21.9 per 100,000 population.
That's as bad as Brazil, worse than Kenya, and slightly worse than The
Democratic Republic of Congo. (Source:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentiona...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate),
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Washington,_D.C.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Washington,_D.C.)).

For perspective, the city I live in has a murder rate of 1.9, only slightly
higher than the national average.

~~~
true_religion
You can't really compare cities to entire countries unless those countries are
city-sized.

For example, while Brazil has a per capita homicide rate of ~23 per 100,000
the state of Alagoas has a homicide rate of 60.3, and the Federal District has
one of 34.1.

Source:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brazilian_states_by_mur...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brazilian_states_by_murder_rate)

~~~
astrodust
Some of those countries aren't all that big. Dominica is about on par with
Washington D.C. and has a population 1/10th the size in an area only a few
times bigger.

Sure, parts of Brazil are a war-zone, as are parts of Mexico in the bitter
battle over drugs, but that just skews the average up for the rest of the
country, meaning Washington D.C. is worse than many parts of Brazil.

To start splitting hairs, I bet there's parts of Washington D.C. that are on
par with the worst parts of Brazil.

------
VBprogrammer
This travel diary and the Iranian people I've met through Work and University
really made me question the mainstream medias depiction of Iran.

[http://c90adventures.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view...](http://c90adventures.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=80:iran&catid=37:category-
for-malaysia-trip&Itemid=18)

~~~
tome
Really? You don't think it's possible for a decent people to be ruled by an
abhorrent government?

~~~
znowi
Yes, it's possible - the Obama administration :) Shall we declare the US a no
fly zone?

~~~
pekk
Nobody has declared Iran a no fly zone.

Edit: to clarify, 'no fly zone' has a specific meaning that doesn't apply here
- [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-fly_zone](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-
fly_zone)

------
nfg
A pity if this is a concerted campaign, as I've mentioned here before visiting
Iran is pretty straightforward if you're not from the US/UK and very
worthwhile - blog post with some info here:
[http://www.sarahandniall.com/2011/08/iran.html](http://www.sarahandniall.com/2011/08/iran.html)

And one by my partner on traveling as a foreign woman in Iran:
[http://www.sarahandniall.com/2011/09/traveling-as-woman-
in-i...](http://www.sarahandniall.com/2011/09/traveling-as-woman-in-iran.html)

------
cpursley
Economic sanctions are an act of war. It's the citizens that are hurt the
most.

~~~
claudius
The citizens that elected rather unfriendly presidents and governments.

~~~
cpursley
The US is proving to be a rather bad actor. Drones. NSA Spying. Indefinite
detention.

Should the rest of the world place economic sanctions on the US?

~~~
InclinedPlane
This is stereotypical "point spread" moral relativism. The standards with
which American citizens hold their government to should of course be quite
high, but by no means should we take failure to meet those standards to be in
remotely the same league as the sorts of activities the Iranian regime
undertakes.

~~~
ferdo
How many countries has Iran invaded in the past 20 years? How many civilian
dead in foreign countries can be laid at the feet of the Iranian military?

Please recall that the US backed Saddam against Iran once upon a time.

~~~
tome
The point is not how much _has_ it done, but how much it would have done if it
had the power. If Iran and the US had swapped places there would have been far
more death and destruction across the world, all in the name of religious
supremacy.

I can't say I like what the US is doing with drone strikes and repeated,
unwinnable wars, but don't think for a minute that Iran would be a beneficient
world hegemon. The world would be an awful place to live.

~~~
ferdo
> If Iran and the US had swapped places there would have been far more death
> and destruction across the world...religious supremacy.

That's a supposition for which you have no support. The fact is that non-
religious States have murdered far more civilians in the past 100 years than
any religion has.

That's not a defense of religion. It's a simple statement of historical fact.

~~~
tome
My statement is a counterfactual, so it's certainly hard to prove. But look at
who runs that country, why they run it and what their values are.

> That's not a defense of religion. It's a simple statement of historical
> fact.

It's also completely irrelevant.

~~~
ferdo
History is relevant. Always.

------
untog
Surely the sites mentioned (Kayak, Expedia) just use third-party data from
airlines and such to provide listings? If so, it's unlikely they are the ones
removing Iran from the tables.

~~~
andrewcooke
so why does hipmunk still work?

[edit: i looked at ita. it says that it supplies kayak and google flights.
google flights shows flights to tehran (i checked). kayak does not (according
to the article). that does not seem to support the idea that ita is filtering
data, unless it is doing so at the client's request.]

~~~
untog
I have no idea. This StackOverflow post gives a good rundown of where the data
comes from:

[http://stackoverflow.com/a/4612221/470339](http://stackoverflow.com/a/4612221/470339)

 _" you probably want to connect to somebody a bit more down the food chain,
with a better API."_

Obviously I have no idea how anyone does it, but it seems plausible that it is
the data providers rather than consumer-facing sites. Look at the ITA site:

[http://www.itasoftware.com/](http://www.itasoftware.com/)

~~~
apaprocki
I still see full flight data to IKA on my terminal, so it does not appear to
be filtered from data providers (plural). I suppose there could be one
provider that filtered it and a few sites depend on them.

------
3327
I agree let them be countries are sovereign and if nukes are the problem why
not international proliferation ?

Although a simple comparison the jist of it is no different than being in a
standoff: 2 people pointing guns at each other and one side demands, "give me
your gun".

~~~
madaxe
If nukes are the problem, why is Israel not sanctioned to hell and back? Have
nukes, refuse to sign NPT.

Because nukes aren't the problem. Protecting US interests by destabilising
Iran is the problem.

~~~
tome
Israel is not in breach of international law with its nuke program _exactly
because_ it is a non-signatory to the NPT.

Iran _is_ a signatory and it has obligations under that treaty that it is not
fulfilling.

And being vigilant on Iran is not just protecting US interests. It's
protecting anyone who believes in freedom and liberal values. If Iran had
nuclear weapons then it would be the second most awful world power to have
them. It would be much worse in practice than NK having them though, because
it actively sponsors terrorism around the world.

~~~
3327
How do you know they would be the second most awful people to have them ? You
are led to believe they are awful and if they have them they will use. What if
they are not? What fact do you have?

I have no agenda I am nor pro Iran nor against, because I simply do not have
enough facts or knowledge. I hear from the media they are terrible and almost
as bad as North Korea... But what if they are not right? Can a US publication
come out and say: "Hey Iranian leaders might feel they need nuclear weapons
because otherwise they are helpless against an invasion by supreme powers just
the Iraq and other nations were". Can a US news outlet make such a claim?
Maybe some editorials here and there but the reality is present media is not
entirely different than cold war Soviet media. Besides the obvious differences
that you and I can both see, differences on agenda setting are not that great
when it comes to SPECIFIC issues like Iran.

What would have happened if Iran was left alone? Who knows. What if US policy
was to say: fine go make nukes but know the obvious, if you do anything stupid
WW3 will be fought over the middleeast (and probably will be the case
regardless or somewhere in Asia).

>Iran is a signatory and it has obligations under that treaty that it is not
fulfilling.

This point I completely agree with. IF they are a signatory they are
obliged...However, does the US adhere to every deal they signed ? Does any
nation ? We bend our own constitution when we see fit.

We detain people for infinity without charging them in black prisons.

We fly an army of killer robots over any nation we please as long as they do
not have the might or spine to respond and our tied to our foreign aid
lifeline - where 1/7 people killed are children and 50% are innocent
(according to a recent report also covered 2 days ago here on HN).

So who are we to tell them about obligations and sticking to the rules?

~~~
tome
> How do you know they would be the second most awful people to have them ?
> You are led to believe they are awful and if they have them they will use.
> What if they are not? What fact do you have?

These are very worthwhile questions. I've spent a lot of time investigating
this subject and have come to certain conclusions. It would be foolish for
anyone to believe me just because I've made these assertions on a forum on the
internet, so I would encourage anyone interested to do their own research and
come to their own conclusions.

------
arcadeparade
It's very sad to see innocent people punished because their government has a
backbone.

~~~
tome
Their government are an evil, theocratic, messianic cult who care nothing
about their people but do care about promoting barbarism internally and
terrorism externally to further their dispicable agenda. There are few more
evil governments on the planet right now.

If you want to be sad about the punishment of the innocent Iranian people, be
sad that Khomeini's thugs murdered, jailed or otherwise incapacitated all the
real liberals during that country's revolution.

~~~
kenster07
It's a curious thing, good vs evil. It seems to me that there are few true
Luke Skywalker vs Darth Vader scenarios in history. Rather, every political
leader has a bit of Darth Vader in them. There's something about that power
that brings out the scum in all of us.

~~~
tome
I never mentioned good. The Iranian government is evil. Most of the
governments of the rest of the world are just human, that is, as you say,
morally mixed.

------
msoad
Three months ago when we were trying to book from California to Tehran it was
impossible to find flights. It seems google brought back Tehran to their list
now but many others don't have it yet.

Sucks to be innocent victom of a conflict that you didn't do anything for it.
I can not even do a anything to change either.

~~~
rdl
Aren't flights from UAE to Iran super frequent and cheap? I'd just fly to DXB
or AUH (ideally, Etihad, one of the underrated airlines in the world) and then
book the Iran leg independently, maybe even on arrival.

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latchkey
[https://www.google.com/flights/#search;f=SFO;t=IKA;d=2013-08...](https://www.google.com/flights/#search;f=SFO;t=IKA;d=2013-08-08;r=2013-08-12)

~~~
ape4
Maybe OPs searches didn't work because of the accent on Tehrān

------
znowi
This is a part of an ongoing campaign of the US to take over Iran. Havoc in
the Middle East is the ground work for the coming coup/invasion.

