
What if you didn't need money or attention? - bjcubsfan
http://sivers.org/full
======
k2enemy
I've been reading about stoicism lately (the ancient philosophy, not the
adjective for lack of emotion) and I think that practicing stoics have some
nice tools to help people out with this.

One of the primary ways that stoics find tranquility is by "wanting what you
already have" instead of "wanting what you don't have." Easier said than done,
so they offer some tools to help, inluding negative visualization (imagining
life without things you care about), only worrying about things you have
control over, and occasionally denying yourself pleasures.

I'm not doing the subject justice, but here's an easy to read book that
condenses a lot of their ideas and applies them to modern life:
[http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Good-Life-Ancient-
Stoic/dp/01953...](http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Good-Life-Ancient-
Stoic/dp/0195374614/). And of course Wikipdeia:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoicism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoicism)

~~~
tedks
Stoicism seems like it would be relevant to a Roman. If you had no air
conditioning and very little good things, being stoic would probably make you
pretty happy.

We're not in ancient Rome anymore.

I don't see any reason for modern humans to be stoic. It seems like a great
way to stagnate. When you can't change your environment, it makes sense to
change your mind to accept your environment. When you can, self-modification
is harmful. It lets you accept things you could change if you worked to to
change them.

Stoicism seems to be at odds with a personal drive towards self-improvement.
It doesn't seem relevant to modern environments where this improvement is
possible.

~~~
autodidakto
Stoicism isn't anti-improvement. Epictetus was an abused slaved, then
philosophical leader. Seneca was rich and was tutor and adviser to the
emperor. Marcus Aurelius was the emperor.

Yes, Stoicism teaches you that you don't have (at least ultimate) control over
the world. But it does emphasize that you have control over yourself. You
internalize your goals: Instead of "winning the tennis championship" it's "be
the best player I can possibly be despite circumstance".

------
ritchiea
I try to think this way. One thing I try to do is not work too much, so I had
been freelancing trying to keep my hours to around 25 a week. It freed up time
to do other things, I was learning to play guitar and working on some film
scripts (I am using "was" because I decided to take on a full time programming
gig until June but even this I didn't take for the money, it's way below
market, I took the job because it sounded interesting).

One problem I encountered was people just not "getting it." And I don't mean
random strangers, I mean potential clients. It's oddly difficult to tell
people "I make enough money to support my lifestyle working 25 hours a week
and I like to save the rest of my time for other projects that interest me."
They expect you to be "doing more" or see you as lazy, after all why not make
the most money you can possibly make at all times? When in fact I think I'm
far less lazy than most people, I put a ton of effort into coding, educating
myself, going the extra mile, working on projects for fun, reading technical
books, going to talks. I'm also very serious about my pursuits beyond my
programming "day job." And yet I've found it difficult to convey that, and
that clients consider me unserious because I was intentionally working less
than 40 hours a week even if they are looking for someone for a part time
role.

~~~
udfalkso
A few years ago I decided that I wanted more free time to work on side
projects, travel, whatever, and I made what I thought was a rather reasonable
offer to my current employer and a couple of suitors.

I said "pay me 3/5ths of the salary you just offered me and I'll work 3 days a
week". I also offered to keep this arrangement flexible so that I could work
in stretches of varying lengths if needed.

This did not go over well. People were actually offended by this proposition
and it went nowhere.

As a founder myself, I understand the desire to only hire people that will
give you their full heart and soul. But, I'm also a practical person and if
someone's skills are valuable to me, then they are very likely still valuable
in part.

In fact, when it comes to a product/engineering position, I think the employer
would come out on top in such a scenario. They still get access to the
person's brain and all of their knowledge and ideas. For someone that's being
offered high compensation, their knowledge and ideas are probably a big part
of the reason why.

~~~
embwbam
I've tried this several times too and it has never worked well. I've been both
employee and employer and I really wish people were more rational about this.

Not only that but I think this is the key to fix the economy! Think about it:
if people could accept salary cuts for less work we would have more jobs and
could transition to an eventual post-scarcity economy smoothly.

Creative workers don't output more than 25 quality hours a week anyway.

~~~
ritchiea
I think for many people, most people even, this is not a rational decision.
It's not about your time being worth a certain amount of value to the company
and 4/5 or 3/5 of availability being worth proportionately less. Some people
are offended by the idea of you wanting to structure your weeks differently in
the first place & think of it purely as special treatment. They are obsessed
with the idea of a five day work week and the traditional employer-employee
relationship and accepting employment on non-standard terms would be giving
away the employer's implicit power over the employee.

~~~
rhizome
To the degree that they're actually offended, I think it may be more reflexive
that the employee would put an upper bound on the amount of work they would do
in a week.

~~~
ritchiea
Then why go home or take off days at all?

~~~
rhizome
Because those are a couple of the things that government labor departments do
tend to require.

------
dmlorenzetti
Given money enough, and time, I definitely have things I would work on (mostly
developing numerical algorithms for solving physical modeling problems, and
expressing them in software). Yet, paradoxically, I worry about being given
unconditional money and time to work on them.

Occasionally my wife and I talk about my quitting work, and us moving to
Thailand (her native country). Her vision of my ideal life there is that I
wouldn't have to work, and could sit around doing my pet projects without any
time or money constraints.

That always strikes me as dangerous. Those projects I want to work on didn't
jump into my head unbidden. The ideas arose from years of coming to grips with
real-world problems that don't have entirely satisfactory solutions. If I
untether myself from the work that led to the ideas I want to pursue, then
where will the next ideas come from? And how will I know whether they are
worth pursuing?

To me, having side projects that seem worth doing, especially from the point
of _being useful to others_ (Sivers' way of distinguishing what he means by
"not just relaxing"), requires their being grounded in real-world projects.
And one measure of the worth of real-world projects, like it or not, is that
people are willing to pay to get them done.

~~~
bubbleRefuge
_Occasionally my wife and I talk about my quitting work, and us moving to
Thailand (her native country). Her vision of my ideal life there is that I
wouldn 't have to work, and could sit around doing my pet projects without any
time or money constraints._

I can sympathize. My wife and I have ties to South America. Food and shelter
are way way cheaper down there. The voices in my head make compelling
arguments for making the move. What stops me is the kids. Don't see much of a
future for them in South America vs growing up in SV.

~~~
rwallace
Really? I haven't been in either place, but everything I've heard about
California says it's a great place if you're a single twenty-year-old geek but
a dreadful place to grow up in; intuitively I would have thought moving to
South America would be ideal for the kids if they have US citizenship and
therefore the right to move back to Silicon Valley later, if and when they are
in the situation of being single twenty-year-old geeks?

~~~
bubbleRefuge
Kids are gr8 I think: attending good public schools with favorable
demographics and good influences, lots of extracurricular activities in the
community, tons of outdoorsy excursions such as hiking, camping, nature. Great
museums and exposure to diverse culture. Skiing in winter. Problem is cost of
living. Reasonable sized housing for a family of 4 and a dog IMO is 3/2 1800
sqft with yard and garage on 5000sqft lot. Thats hitting 1.5M+ in my hood
right now. So buying is out of the question. Right now I'm renting a 3/2 condo
for 3650, so, as a lifetime renter, over next 10 years were are talking about
500-600K in rent alone if you factor in increases. How does one save for
retirement? college for kids?

Problem with most of south america is infrastructure and security. These are
things that here in the states we take for granted.

~~~
Daishiman
South America is a huge fucking continent. There are places in the Andes in
Chile and Argentina that have standards of living comparable to 1st-world
countries and a quality of outdoor activities that go beyond what you could
get in the best Alpine towns of Switzerland, with free, high-quality public
education and good universities nearby. They're obviously not the cheapest
places to be in, but they easily cost 1/3 or less of what living in California
does.

------
janj
I just finished a book about a man who has been living without money for over
10 years titled "The Man Who Quit Money". It's a different perspective on not
needing money. Instead of having plenty of money this book is about a man who
doesn't need any money at all because he chooses not to need money, he lives
outside of the money system. The title of this post seems to include men like
Suelo, the subject of the book, but the content of the post seems to exclude
people like this as it focuses on having more than enough money instead of not
needing money.

The book does a great job describing the evolution of this man's philosophy on
living outside of the money system and what it has done for him. If at all
interested I highly recommend it. Instead of trying to accumulate so much
money you can't imagine needing more a healthy alternative might be to focus
on reducing your need for money.

~~~
enraged_camel
I was curious, so I looked it up on Amazon. This is an excerpt of the book
description:

 _The Man Who Quit Money is an account of how one man learned to live, sanely
and happily, without earning, receiving, or spending a single cent. Suelo
doesn 't pay taxes, or accept food stamps or welfare. He lives in caves in the
Utah canyonlands, forages wild foods and gourmet discards. He no longer even
carries an I.D. Yet he manages to amply fulfill not only the basic human
needs-for shelter, food, and warmth-but, to an enviable degree, the universal
desires for companionship, purpose, and spiritual engagement._

How did he find companionship in the Utah canyonlands? Does he have a
girlfriend who shares the same lifestyle? Or is this more of a "the trees and
animals are his friends" sort of thing?

~~~
hueving
It doesn't seem like this lifestyle is fundamentally sustainable for society
(foraging does not scale). With something that will not work if everyone does
it, is it really worth idolizing?

~~~
enraged_camel
>>It doesn't seem like this lifestyle is fundamentally sustainable for society
(foraging does not scale).

And consumerism is?

~~~
hueving
False dichotomy.

------
munificent
> But what if you had so much money that you couldn't possibly want any more?

There's such a deeply narcissistic undercurrent here.

If you ever find yourself having too money money, what that means is you have
too _few people who you are using your resources to help._

Being rich shouldn't be, "Well, I've got a yacht and a motorcycle, I guess I'm
good!" It should be, "Ah I finally have enough to help X. If only I could get
more and help Y as well." You aren't rich enough until the whole world is rich
with you.

~~~
stinos
If only reality was this beautiful.

I _completely_ agree with your stance but we both know x % of the rich ones
aren't like, say, Gates, but rather the contrary. They try to find ways to
lose less (taxes and whatnot) and gain more then they already have.

~~~
clarky07
I know it's not the point of your comment, but I really hate when people
complain about rich people wanting to pay less taxes. They already pay far far
more than everyone else, in total amount, percent of income, and even percent
of income relative to total income. By wide margins.

And to use Gates as an example, I'd much rather have him spending his money
than the government spending his money. He's better at it, and does more good
with it.

~~~
stinos
_They already pay far far more than everyone else, in total amount, percent of
income, and even percent of income relative to total income. By wide margins_

well I think the are morally obliged to pay more anyway - which is the spirit
of the OP's idea. It's not like the government completely wastes every single
tax penny. And even if they would, the more you have the more you can miss.

Furthermore, not only does this depend on the country you live in, I know from
first hand experience tax avoidance is real, and mainly with richer people
because they can pay others to do it for them. Now if they try to avoid taxes
n order to give that money to the poor, I'm all good with it. But chances are
they don't, in which case I'd rather let the government have it instead of it
resting on the bank or being used to buy an environmental disaster like a
speedboat :P

------
josefresco
I hate these theoretical scenarios because my practical brain kicks in and I
start asking questions like:

Do I have lots of money making money not important/critical? Does everyone
also not have to worry about money? Do my kids/family also have the same
"money free" existence as me? Am I able to travel without incurring any cost?
If I do have tons of money, am I allowed to spend it on other people/causes?

I don't need attention so that's not a concern, but the money issue is too
complicated to simply take it out of the equation for me.

If I ignore my practical brain ... my priorities would be my kids, my wife, my
immediate family and community in that order.

Spending time with my kids, making sure they have everything they need, most
of what they want, and simply loving them (without being distracted by
providing for them) would be the easiest and most gratifying part of not
having to worry about money.

However being super-rich wouldn't solve any of these issues for me as I would
feel a great burdon to help those in need. If my family was taken care of, the
logically extends to my community, and those around the world most in need
(similar to Gates) What a nightmare to know that you have more money than
anyone and are in the best position (besides governments) to help people. I
don't know how Bill sleeps at night.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Most of our concerns about money are definitely 1st-world. Keeping up with
expectations - school, housing, car, travel. Most of the world doesn't have
these concerns.

And we don't (have to) have them either. Its voluntary. There was a great book
"Your money or your life" which like those others referenced here, talked
about how the pursuit of money becomes a lifestyle, instead of enabling one.
Lots to think about there.

~~~
ahomescu1
> Most of our concerns about money are definitely 1st-world. Keeping up with
> expectations - school, housing, car, travel. Most of the world doesn't have
> these concerns.

You'd be surprised. In fact, I'd say quite the opposite: poor people in
developing countries are even more concerned with appearances and expectations
(for example, I have heard a lot of stories about people who can barely afford
rent/food, but they drive a BMW or own a smartphone).

~~~
josefresco
I think that's statistically true of poor people living in a first-world or
middle to upper class environment.

Anecdotally I spent time in one of the poorest counties in Florida but never
saw so many "normal" people with expensive cars, jewelry etc.

The want to appear to be rich is strong if you are surrounded by it.

I can't say the same would be true in a society where all were relatively
equal or didn't wear their wealth on their sleeve.

Again anecdotally I find the differences within regions of the US intriguing.
I'm from New England where there is clearly a lot of upper middle class
people, but you don't see them flaunting their wealth. Other regions of the US
(to remain nameless) however seem to be much more concerned with showing off
their wealth. I think many factors play into this, not just the region but
culture, upbringing and the media.

~~~
ahomescu1
There's a lot of that in Europe too. There's a lot less overt flaunting of
wealth in the richer countries (Denmark or Sweden, for example) than in the
poorer countries.

However, I think even upper class people flaunt wealth, but in different and
subtler ways. One example of this (for the super rich) are art collections
(such as paintings).

------
cottonseed
I've been thinking along these lines lately. I've never much cared for or been
interested in attention. I'm totally comfortable with the fact I'm going to be
forgotten. I've been very lucky and I don't have to worry much about money.
I'm about to finish school. What do I do next? I basically have two answers:
(1) Entertain myself. Learn things because I curious. Work on things because I
think they're exciting or interesting, without worrying if they're useful or
valuable. (2) Try to make socially valuable contributions. How do I best put
my skills to work for others? Free software is one good model here. I've been
trying to learn about the non-profit model.

I'm very interested to hear other people's thoughts.

~~~
sivers
After I sold my company for enough money that it was obvious I'd never _have_
to work again, my mind went to the same place as yours.

Contributing to free/open software is a good one.

But also there are so many pseudo-business projects that are worth doing, and
not commercializing. You know like when people say, "People love it, but we're
trying to figure out how to monetize it." Wouldn't it be nice to not monetize
it, and just leave it as a cool thing that exists? Closer to art than
commerce.

~~~
Killah911
Amen, I have personally experience how much better I enjoy working on
something when I don't necessarily need to worry about monetizing it. In my
mind, my non-profit work is immensely more successful and rewarding because
everyone involved are doing it because they just really want to.

It requires a very different way of thinking and looking at things. Money is a
metric often used to measure success. Even in non-profits people start to get
"metric driven", but I feel that somehow belittles my efforts.

Truth be told, money is work + luck. The only metric that I like to look at
is, am I doing what I can. Random dehumanizing metrics be damned, you can't
measure everything!

~~~
cottonseed
> I feel that somehow belittles my efforts.

It does. There's lot of psychology research on this, intrinsic vs. extrinsic
motivation, etc. Have a look at Alfie Kohn's books, like Punished by Rewards.

~~~
Killah911
Thanks. I recently read Drive, which was an eye opening book, especially when
I can attest to the negative consequences of bonus based ruining of
intrinsically motivated people.

~~~
cottonseed
I tried to read Pink's A Whole New Mind, and it turned me off to him
completely.

------
joyeuse6701
Propose this to the homeless and the destitute and see what sort of responses
one receives. This is a fun thought experiment for the privileged. As a kid
this is what was beaten into the minds of the soon to graduate out of college
'study what you love' they'd say. The idea was attractive to be sure.

But when it is about survival, when you don't have a cushion, an
infrastructure that will provide for you, this sort of thing isn't an option,
the rhetoric is really a sophistry. What one can glean from this is what many
have already considered.

Make enough money, satiate yourself so that it's no longer a need, and then
you really do have the freedom to pick and choose and do what you want. It is
a rare sort of situation and person that can do this from the beginning to the
end of their lives.

Work comes out of a necessity, for many of us it is not something you simply
change your mind on, and you're suddenly free from the burden.

EDIT: spacing, wording

------
nine_k
Just my 2¢.

I personally don't need piles of money. I could make 20% of what I'm making
now, do what I love to do, and not feel strained. (Actually, I lived on much-
much less.)

But I have a family to support, children to educate, etc, and _this_ requires
a lot of money. So yes, I'm looking for ways to make more money, like 10x, or
even 100x of what I'm making now.

Also, unlike food, money does not cease to be useful in quantities you
yourself cannot consume. I bet Bill Gates does not spend a million of his
riches a day. The Gates Foundation possibly spends more, though—hopefully in a
way Mr. Gates finds personally satisfying.

~~~
Dewie
> But I have a family to support, children to educate, etc, and this requires
> a lot of money. So yes, I'm looking for ways to make more money, like 10x,
> or even 100x of what I'm making now.

You must have a very large family to support/lot of college tuition to pay
off.

~~~
nine_k
I dislike debts, so I'd rather pay upfront, which might be a bit expensive.

Also, having 50-100 your yearly incomes invested effectively retires you and
your family: you don't _have_ to work for money any more and can pursue what
you love. Exactly as the original article suggests.

------
rpearl
Check your privilege. Most people don't _have_ the opportunity to do what they
love; they are just working to make ends meet. They don't _have_ the ability
to fall back to something safe if they fail. If they do not have a job they
will simply not survive. They aren't looking to "benefit others" through their
work, they just want to continue living.

[https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/01/in-the-name-of-
love/](https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/01/in-the-name-of-love/)

~~~
forgottenpass
Most of the submitted article is spent acknowledging just how impractical the
premise of the question is. Don't take it on it's own terms (I thought it was
a dumb post for different reasons) but at least recognize it knows it's
daydreaming.

 _Check your privilege._

Is this sentence used as anything other than a snub anymore?

Your point isn't worthless, but it reads like "wake up sheeple" posts of
yesteryear. The writing is emotionally charged and confrontational as if you
have something new to say. You're just reminding everyone of a world
incongruity they came to grips with by adolescence. I'm not saying they are
(or should be) fine with it, I'm saying your post is cliche and not helping.

You don't have to stop fighting the good fight, just consider how you're doing
it. Or ignore me and post a link to a wiki page titled "tone argument" because
your self-satisfaction for participating in a cause is more important to you
than your efficacy at it.

------
Zarkonnen
_checks Maslow 's hierarchy_

Then you'd be focusing on self-actualisation. Lucky you.

~~~
geophile
Yes, but.

I am fortunate enough to be in this position. In my 50s, in good health, and I
don't have to work if I don't want to. I've always dreamed of being in this
situation and now I am. So what am I doing with my time?

\- Still enjoying not having to get up and go to work, and not having to work
for idiot managers. Sometimes I waste whole days going nothing (thanks, 2048).
I worked in startups for 25 years, and have been mulling over my "pattern": I
meet a charismatic founder, get seduced, work my ass off. That's a lot less
attractive now. The getting seduced part depended, in part, on the golden
carrot. (But only in part.)

\- Exercising a lot more.

\- Working on my pet projects, with a degree of urgency that varies over time.
I don't need these projects to pay the bills, or to be loved and used. I get
my jollies out of writing the software.

\- Consulting, but being very selective about the projects I pick. They have
to be interesting, and hopefully related to my pet projects. I've had some
success here.

\- Learning to play piano. (Would have been so much easier if I didn't stop
when I was a child.)

\- Enjoying more time with my wife.

\- Getting back to teaching (software, of course).

Here's the "problem": At my age, (and due in large part to my temperament),
I'm still not thinking very far outside the box. I can afford to do lots of
new things, but I'm having some trouble figuring out which ones to actually
do. Why?

\- Software: I've always written software. I always will. I need to make time
for other things.

\- Inertia: I tend to do what I know, and expand out from there gradually. I
seem to be incapable of ravenously seeking out novelty.

\- Need ideas: After many years of working very hard, putting job and family
first, those are the things I tend to think about.

\- Need to say yes more: Except for the teenager living at home, I can go
someplace warm and windy and windsurf for a week, anytime I want to. Not sure
why I don't. I'm starting to say yes to more impulsive things, but it
definitely goes against the grain.

\- Frittering time away on small projects: I took on too many, so for a while,
I had no time for anything else. I'm in a lull now, so I'm again contemplating
how I want to spend my time.

~~~
vacri
I suggest that you go travelling. It's fun anyway, but you will also see new
people and places that might give you the 'a-ha!' to give you a new target to
work towards. Find a way to travel without your teenager, methinks, because
then you'll be focusing more on seeing the things you want to see, rather than
a more generic please-the-whole-family itinerary.

I spent several months crossing the US and there were only two destinations
locked in - the arrival airport and the departure airport. I'd have a general
idea of what I was doing the next day, but it wasn't unusual to decide in the
morning to go in a different direction. It was fantastic freedom of movement,
and I saw things I'd've never seen otherwise. I could travel on my whims.

Travelling with others has pros and cons - more people means more to keep
happy, but also more shared experiences and memories. But however you do it,
keep the ability to make spontaneous changes.

------
kstenerud
This post is a bit off.

Money is a tool, a form of power. You can desire power in order to accomplish
things, or simply for the love of power.

Attention is something most people crave, and while it can provide a positive
feedback loop of activity, it is not an end in and of itself.

But that's not all there is to life. There is experience, exploration &
discovery, the act of creation, enrichment of the mind and body (knowledge and
skill), service. Power can be used in order to accomplish these feats, and
attention may result, but please keep them in their place lest they take
ownership of you! A life spent pursuing them will soon leave you feeling
empty.

~~~
ahomescu1
> Money is a tool, a form of power.

Money is also a simplifier of trade. I write software, my dentist fixes teeth.
When I get a cavity and my dentist puts a filling, I don't pay him/her by
giving them code, I give them dollars instead.

Do I have power over my dentist, since I can choose to not give them money?
Sure, but then he/she will also not fix my cavities.

~~~
kstenerud
You have the power to get your teeth fixed by someone. If you did not have
money, you'd have to use other forms of power to get it done (calling a favor,
threatening, bartering, etc), or perhaps you couldn't get it done at all
because you lack any source of power that's sufficient.

~~~
ahomescu1
None of those other forms of power are as efficient or effective as money (in
fact, money evolved from bartering as it was more efficient) except for
violence. However, we have (or at least are trying) to move away from violence
as a society.

------
conductr
Impossible to answer this honestly until you've reached that point. More than
likely you will discover a passion for something that currently does not exist
in your life. Life is never ending learning, including who you are today and
how you are different than yesterday.

~~~
sivers
I _have_ reached that point, and it's _still_ impossible to answer. :-)

~~~
saganus
Then perhaps you need to do some more soul-searching? Not saying it's a bad
thing that you have reached this point and haven't figured "the answer" yet,
but I'm pretty sure "the answer" is probably somewhere inside of you.

I have not reached that point.. yet (I hope I will, rather sooner than later),
but supposing I did reached that point, let's say, yesterday, oh boy, there
are soooo many things that I would love to be doing.

For instance, after maybe going on a shopping spree for all those things that
I've always wanted (truly not that many or that extravagant), for example
setting up a very nice NAS + Media Center for my house, getting a swimming
pool maybe, a laptop upgrade (mine is past 7 years of daily use...) and maybe
stuff for my girlfriend/wife, I would then spend a few months travelling (not
the whole world mind you, maybe 4-5 2-month trips or so). But aside from inane
things and materialistic desires...

I would love to do a few things (besides spending time with family/friends)
that would make up my "daily life", meaning I would like to do this as a form
of retirement.

\- Study without worrying if I'm going to be able to maintain the scholarship
for example. Just get a Physics degree and maybe a chemistry one. \- Put an
animal shelter and then replicate if successful, i.e. put a LOT of shelters
throughout my country. \- My most desired idea: To develop what I call an
"Idea Lab", which is something I'm sure a lot of other people have thought of.
What about using my bottomless bucket of money to fund really neat and cool
ideas that a lot of normal folks have, and having a staff of engineers,
mathematicians, and in general all types of scientists and makers, to make
these ideas come to life. Ideas that should help other people like water
purification tools/processes, clean energy generation, etc.

I think those are the 3 things that would very easily consume my life if I had
no need for money. I would love for example to donate to my college a building
or two, computers, maybe pay lecture for really cool guys to inspire students,
etc.

In short, I do actually dream on becoming wealthy enough not to care about my
survival so I could help others around me. First family and friends and then
my immediate community. And finally, if I actually become like ultra-rich, I
would just DIE to put my own space company and help, even if a tiny bit, to
get humanity out of this planet and unto the stars. In that regard I think
something like Carmack's Armadillo Aerospace would absolutely rock!

But of course, like someone else mentioned before, that's what I say I will do
in my hypothetically perfect world. But I like to think that I won't deviate
much from the general idea.... of course only time will tell.

PS: Now that I think of it, I would certainly look at putting libraries around
my hometown for example. Real libraries (like with books and maybe even
classrooms or something). What about putting some type of "online university",
that's basically a building with the necessary tools to let people study
coursers from Coursera and the like? and maybe even have "TA's" that would
help you out if you got stuck. I think that could go a long way to help people
bootstrap themselves out of poverty, like one other poster commented before.
So no giving away free money, but the opportunity to make something for
yourself. Which coming in from a third world country, let me tell you how
satisfactory it is to see someone that had everything against them, succeed
and be a happy person.

...and of course I would like a pony that shits rainbows... but like my dad
likes to say "the cool thing about imagination is that it's free, so why dream
small?"

------
stcredzero
I'm not so sure any normal human is free of the need for some kind of
attention. To be kicked out of a group feels like death to us, because our
mental machinery was formed to deal with a situation where it was often death.
We value the regard of our peers because it's actually a life and death
resource to us.

That said, humans are pretty horrific, when it comes down to it. Not that many
creatures do the things to their own species that humans do as often as we do
with as much enthusiasm.

------
incision
1.) Nurture my family.

2.) Enable people to educate themselves. Public libraries were essential in
building the mindset and providing the place and materials for me to drag
myself out of poverty.

~~~
saraid216
> 2.) Enable people to educate themselves. Public libraries were essential in
> building the mindset and providing the place and materials for me to drag
> myself out of poverty.

Completely off-topic from the OA, but do you have any plans on this front?
Plans, hopeless dreams, crazy ambitions, etc.

~~~
jonmb
I think what Khan Academy has managed to do is very useful. If you are looking
to improve the world's education, I'd get in touch with them.

------
Killah911
I would be doing EXACTLY what I am doing now. Spaceflight software, startups
and tons of volunteering.

I was at a point in my life where I seriously had to ask myself this question
quite seriously. After much grief, I'm in a very happy place now. Not
necessarily pleasurable, but happy. I help startups get launched, dreams turn
to reality & I get to flex my geek muscles studying neuroscience and designing
software that challenges me.

I realize that I am amongst the very lucky few. I recall the seriously hollow
feeling. Being surrounded by stuff. I am fortunate enough to have friends
(some billionaires) who surprisingly have not only dealt with this but have
figured out some pretty awesome ways to live life without being an over the
top Rap Star consumer. (which I unfortunately succumbed to for a while).

I have fewer cars, and other useless toys, but it's wonderful being free.
Doing things because you want to and doing things to be happy (again not to be
confused with pleasure). To be honest, it really doesn't take much to get
there. You don't even have to be a millionaire.

Here's to doing... and realizing that the journey is the reward! Cheers to my
fellow HNers looking beyond the bounds of modernism or most -isms.

------
kevando
I can't over emphasize the importance of this message!!!!!!!!!!!!

After college, I worked for a 'prestigious' consulting firm and found
immediate success in the perspective of my peers. Truthfully, I enjoyed it.
That feeling faded quickly and the cubicle walls closed in and 13 months later
I quit.

With no plan or direction, I moved back with my parents, who did not charge me
rent and bought much of my food. In other words, I had nearly zero expenses
with a stock pile of cash from my prior employer. I relaxed for 2 months
before realizing that I could pretty much live this content life for like 25
years. $20k goes a long way with no expenses.

I started spending my time building websites for friends and found the work
fascinating and completely rewarding. It's that curiosity and fulfillment that
I seek out in everything I do. I have since created a life for myself and the
$20k in savings is long gone so money still drives me.

But at least I know what motivates me. I know what I'd do if I could do
anything and that is an incredible gift.

------
theothermkn
_> Not just “sit around and do nothing”, because that's still just relaxing. I
mean after that, when you're ready to be useful to others again.

What would you do then, if you didn't need the money, and didn't need the
attention?

Yes, we need money to live. We need attention to live, too. _

What's interesting to me about that bit above is that it's presented in this
sort of homiletic style, as if it's the distillation of experience down to
some obvious and unquestionable core, but it's pernicious in that it's pure
ideology.

"[W]hen you're ready to be useful to others again," does so much work in this
regard. It frames entrepreneurship as _a service that is situated within a
matrix of rational choices and utilitarian moral justification_. We do these
things because they're legitimately useful, they just happen to make us filthy
rich. This wealth, however serendipitous and embarrassing it might be, is
_also_ justified by the actual utility it provides. Zuckerberg is wealthy
because Facebook is an unquestionable force for good.

The author continues, framing entrepreneurs as, at worst, misguided persons
who move from being accidentally useful to being purposefully useful; Persons
temporarily blinded by their _universal needs_ for attention and money. Never
mind the problem of defining exactly how much attention and money one needs--
to say nothing of security and nutrition, arguably up for purchase, or love,
validation, and a sense of growth, arguably not up for purchase--to...live?
Survive? Get by? Flourish? Never mind all that, once that's taken care of,
entrepreneurs like the author can now get back to their innately good core of,
from the author's tagline, "mak[ing] useful things, and shar[ing] what [we]
learn."

Look, fundamentally, entrepreneurs exist to get rich. The "problems" they
"solve" are chosen for their profitability, and the rhetoric about utility is
just a way to colonize the discourse and deflect attention from the obvious
avarice of it all. On the level of manipulation, the level of stopping the hoi
polloi from rising up and strangling you, it makes sense; Anyone too stupid to
see they're, for example, making their personal lives worse with Facebook so
that Zuckerberg can sell ads, isn't going to have the discretion or wisdom to
run an economy after any misguided revolt, no matter how apparently justified.

As a means for understanding our own motivations and desires, our
relationships to the game of Capitalism, these are the guilt-addled ramblings
of emotionally crippled narcissists. Basic self-awareness demands that we do
better.

~~~
sp332
_Look, fundamentally, entrepreneurs exist to get rich._

What do the rest of us do?

------
edw519
_when you 're ready to be useful to others again._

Again?

You just nailed the problem.

If everything you did was for others, then this discussion (and many like it)
wouldn't even make sense.

You wouldn't "get burned out", "lose purpose", "get stressed out", "worry
about competition", "procrastinate", or "lack motivation".

If your work, your art, or just your day-to-day activities were focused on
delivering value to others, you'd be too busy having a ball and rejoicing in
outcomes to worry about all this other stuff. And anyone who tells you
otherwise (but we gotta eat first!), still doesn't get it.

Thanks, OP, for reminding us that as soon as we're not so full of ourselves,
and understand our role as conduits of energy, the sooner everything else
flows so nicely.

~~~
smacktoward
What? No. Doctors and nurses get burned out _all the time._ So do cops and
EMTs. Just because you've dedicated your life to serving others doesn't mean
that constantly being on the line to help others can't burn you out. In some
ways it can even be _more_ stressful, because when you're only out to help
yourself, you can justify easing back every now and then to reduce the
pressure. When you're helping others, it's harder to do that because of the
feeling that you're failing them in their moment of need.

------
tluyben2
OP is right in that you should at least do this experiment about the money as
entrepreneur. If you had all the money in the world would you still be
building what you are building? I have come to believe that if the answer is
no that I am doing the wrong thing. Everything must at least be building
toward what I think I need to do in life and that doesn't mean only making
money to do them but activily working on it as well. It makes me very happy
and I think it would do that to more people if they would follow that
principle.

~~~
krohling
Suppose you know exactly what you would rather spend your time doing but
simply don't have the resources. The reality is that many noble and often
selfless pursuits require substantially more resources than the average person
has access to.

To use an example, suppose you're disgusted by homelessness and want to solve
it. Realistically this is something that requires political influence and a
large amount of money, not just to float yourself, as trying to solve this
problem is unlikely to pay well, but also to develop solutions. So you say to
yourself, I'm going to spend the next 5-10 years of my life trying to fill
these gaps. Part of this plan may likely involve becoming a "successful"
entrepreneur, as the typical job is unlikely to provide you with these
resources either.

I think it's perfectly acceptable to admit that our pursuits are often
stepping stones to achieving more later on.

~~~
tluyben2
Of course they are; I just said that I need it like this and I think it would
be better for some others as well. Doing something unrelated as stepping stone
often ends up never doing anything about your goal and ends up on the pile of
'moving to another country when I am older'. And such. Not working on the goal
especially when you need a lot of money for it which you probably never reach
is making people unhappy longterm.

------
ef47d35620c1
I would spend more time helping others understand that life is difficult and
that we are impermanent. If we stop and think about why we feel unhappy,
angry, insecure or afraid then we can understand and remove the cause.

We long for the past or we hope for the future and in doing so, we rush
through the now. Stop. Breath. Be human. Life is more than your job. You job
is impermanent. You are impermanent. Your health or the people you love may be
gone tomorrow.

~~~
azatris
Sincere question from an open-minded student: My mindset is such that I try do
everything for long-term happiness, but if I stop worrying about the future
and live only one day at a time, where will I ever end up?

~~~
ef47d35620c1
I, too, am a student. We all learn from each other.

We can't say where we will end up in life. No one knows this for certain.
Being responsible and planning for the future are good things. Taking good
care of yourself financially, mentally, physically and emotionally are all
important now and for the future.

Life happens while we make plans. Many times, life interferes with our plans.
That's OK. That doesn't mean we should stop planning. Understanding that we
cannot predict or control the future will transform our suffering.

We can live now and plan for our future and have peace inside as well.

------
jmspring
California native, I would continue the explorations I've started. Given it is
investigating history, potentially out of the way areas, attention can come
later in recognition of or absorption of collected

Specifically, I would spend multiple weeks/months in:

1\. Death Valley (friends and I already spend a week or so a year hear for the
last several years) - we always find something new; plus literature leads to
additional areas to explore 2\. Highway 49, the gold country. A lot of the
sierras have been built up, but there is a lot of history along Hwy 49 still
to be uncovered and shared. Throw in sightseeing with tramping, appropriately
timed folk songs, a lot could be learned -- for recent concerns, I would
coordinate w/ those in Nevada City helping w/ the recently deceased folk hero
Utah Phillips 3\. Exploring rural Big Sur/Fort Hunter Liggett. This is my
current back door. Big Sur is where we go to get away, but during the high
season it is over run. There are nuggets to explore, but we have missed them
during the crush.

These are just three very CA oriented segments. Specifics on any of which you
can send me a PM about.

------
petercooper
_You know that feeling you have after a big meal? Where you 're so full that
you really actively don't want anything more?_

I've often wondered what's going on in this situation because it's not always
due to literally being 'full'. If you could package up that feeling (hormones,
chemicals, whatever's causing it) and sell it in pill form, you would be the
richest person on the planet..

~~~
kalleboo
> If you could package up that feeling (hormones, chemicals, whatever's
> causing it) and sell it in pill form, you would be the richest person on the
> planet..

Is this not quite literally what drugs are? And I don't just mean illegal
drugs but stuff like Xanax.

~~~
JetSpiegel
They are the richest people on the planet, so you are both right.

------
_kulte
It's interesting, because my first impression is that stoicism is more of a
virtue for someone like Derek than someone who has yet to, for lack of a
better phrasing, make as tangible, substantive dent or mark or whatever in the
universe, i.e. myself. However, reading Sam Soffes' blog post last night where
he states his deep dissatisfaction with his accomplishments to date (Cheddar,
SSToolkit, Seesaw, elusive internet fame), it makes me think that I'll never
be happy even after achieving larger goals.

From my current point of view, which will no doubt change, stoicism kind of
seems pointless insofar as people, for at least the past couple hundred years,
have had an intrinsic desire/need to feel important. It's what motivates us to
do ANYTHING, not just start a universe-changing company, or achieve lofty
goals in open source, or to become rich, but it motivates our everyday
interactions with people we encounter for any reason. Dale Carnegie has a nice
discussion of this phenomenon in 'How to Win Friends and Influence People'.

------
Taek
"Many of my friends are entrepreneurs. A few have mentioned this deep hollow
conflicted feeling. Their business ideas are not things the world wants.
They're following the current tech entrepreneur stereotype, building social
apps and pursuing investors. They're hating it, and having to admit they're
doing it only for the jackpot. But if they stop, what's left?"

For me, that's exactly why I'm starting a company instead of going somewhere
like Google. I'm not in it to hit the jackpot, I'm in it to make a lasting
impact on the world and the way that we use technology. At this stage (early),
it feels like I'm actually trying something useful. I feel like I have a
purpose, and it's a more satisfying source of motivation than a potential
jackpot.

I'd be interested to see Elon Musk weigh in on this. Hitting the financial
jackpot seems very far from his mind. He said himself, his goal is to die as a
resident of Mars, and the rest is just trying to pay the bills so he can fund
his dream.

------
dperfect
Not sure who said it, but "our greatest reason for being is to serve others."

Even an atheist must admit that there's a certain satisfaction that comes from
helping other people (even anonymously) that really has no limit.

Go out and help make the world a better place - not out of a hope for reward
or recognition... just for fun. It's addictive.

~~~
croisillon
Your comment on atheist shows your ignorance of what atheism is. Not sure if
that's the one you're after but Rabindranath Tagore wrote this :

I slept and dreamt that life was joy.

I awoke and saw that life was service.

I acted and behold, service was joy.

~~~
dperfect
My comment refers to the hope or expectation that noble acts will always be
outwardly rewarded in some form (in this life or after) by a being who rewards
us based on merit. That expectation is not a driving force for an atheist or
naturalist.

My point is that the absence of (expected) outward recognition or reward for
altruistic behavior (by a supernatural or spiritual being) does not preclude
someone from experiencing the joy that comes through service. And no, I
personally don't classify that joy as a selfish reward, but rather a natural
consequence built in to the human brain. Whether put there by God or developed
via natural forces/evolution as a mechanism to protect life (we feel
satisfaction in helping other animals - not just our own species), it doesn't
matter; the fact is, it's a part of our nature and can hardly be discredited
in any moral debate.

~~~
croisillon
When you say "Even an atheist must admit that there's a certain satisfaction
that comes from helping other people (even anonymously) that really has no
limit." you imply that theists have a reason to being altruistic (an probably
will?) while atheists don't (and probably won't). Altruism and faith are not
correlated, hence I disagree to the way you worded that.

------
midas007
Toiling in anonymity is something I enjoy. Privacy is priceless.

------
DanielBMarkham
After reading a recommendation for the book "A Guide to the Good Life" on HN,
I reviewed it on a hacker site I have. Stoics throughout history been some of
the best-equipped for finding joy in life, which is one of the reasons their
methods have been taken by so many others.

When you're dealing with these issues, stoicism is highly recommended.

BTW, on the target page you can read hacker reviews from most of the other
major sites, my review, and a bunch of other stuff. The site was a project I
completed so that I didn't have to describe the same books over and over again
on HN (So apologies for not diving into a huge amount of detail here) :)

[http://hn-books.com/Books/A-Guide-to-the-Good-Life-The-Ancie...](http://hn-
books.com/Books/A-Guide-to-the-Good-Life-The-Ancient-Art-of-Stoic-Joy.htm)

------
ahomescu1
> Many of my friends are entrepreneurs. A few have mentioned this deep hollow
> conflicted feeling. Their business ideas are not things the world wants.
> They're following the current tech entrepreneur stereotype, building social
> apps and pursuing investors. They're hating it, and having to admit they're
> doing it only for the jackpot. But if they stop, what's left?

I feel like this article is ignoring rich entrepreneurs who do use their
wealth for far more interesting and/or useful things. First example that comes
to mind: Elon Musk. Could he have made SpaceX or Tesla without first getting
rich? Probably not. I think it's worthwhile to struggle to get rich, if you
plan to use that monetary wealth to invest in more long-term plans.

------
enscr
You are missing the peer pressure part. Even if you don't need money & don't
need attention, people won't let you live being content. The greed for
money+attention, in my view, are the biggest vices. Unfortunately, they also
drive growth & innovation.

------
amerkhalid
It is funny that I have been thinking about this a lot lately too. In fact, my
latest blog post deals with this question a bit.

I used to think that one should first make millions. Then retire and then work
on fun projects. I used to work on side projects that can generate income like
freelancing or become business like social networks. Initially, these projects
would be fun. I would essentially work on my side projects during any free
time. Then I would get burned and take a break from side projects. And soon I
would start all over again.

Now my goals are to work on side projects that really interest me, with or
without money part. So I am writing, reading non-technical books, reading up
on Big Data, AI, and my new hobby, playing with Arduino.

------
ThomPete
I have always said no matter whether I am rich or poor the thing I will enjoy
most in life is hanging with friends and drink a glass of wine. The only thing
that will vary is the price of the wine.

But there is a very big difference between this being a choice or a
realization you make at one point in your life vs having to accept the
situation you are in.

For people like Sivers, me and I guess most other fairly successful people
this kind of insight and choice is a luxury we have.

I am always reminded that Dalai Lama is only capable of doing what he does and
sound so insightful as he does because he doesn't have to worry about day to
day things.

Try getting married, earn a living and have a couple of kids.

Lifes complicated and for most people a struggle.

------
ajcarpy2005
" Many of my friends are entrepreneurs. A few have mentioned this deep hollow
conflicted feeling. Their business ideas are not things the world wants.
They're following the current tech entrepreneur stereotype, building social
apps and pursuing investors. They're hating it, and having to admit they're
doing it only for the jackpot."

It seems like a lot of time and economic resources go towards creating things
the world doesn't want. Some of this is just a part of competition and maybe
people didn't think they wanted it until they saw it and tried it. There's
some truth to it too though...short term gain is often more attractive than
long term.

------
rglover
Without a doubt: education. Specifically, my dream is to open a series of
public, alternative schools where children are educated about existentialism,
their role in the universe, and helping them to understand that most limits in
life are artificial and made up (and ultimately to embrace creativity and
harness it for good).

I haven't quite pinned it down, but I'd like the curriculum to be project-
based with a handful of field trips peppered in for perspective (alternative
being the keyword, with things like working at a homeless shelter for a day,
spending time with an elderly "mentor", picking out something they want to
see, etc.)

One day.

------
alexvr
That's when you become Elon Musk and actually change the world. But if we're
talking about like $5M, enough to retire quite comfortably, I'd just
experiment and not worry what others think of what I do/create.

------
ca98am79
If anyone would like to explore themselves at a deeper level, to try to really
understand the roots of these cravings, I highly recommend Vipassana
meditation. They offer free 10-day courses, where you don't read or write or
talk at all the entire time. You just meditate, and they teach you to
meditate. It doesn't have any religious or political affiliation - it's like
boot camp for meditation. It's truly awesome, and gives you the opportunity
for true, real personal growth. You can read more about it at dhamma.org

------
runevault
I swear, there are times when Derek puts up a post and I wonder if he's in my
head seeing what I need to see at a given moment. It's eery, but damned handy
too.

------
jwmoz
I'd do what Tom does
[http://instagram.com/myspacetom](http://instagram.com/myspacetom)

~~~
josefresco
I follow Tom on Twitter (consume his feed in Flipboard) for this exact reason.
Every time I look at one of his photos posted from around the world, I dream a
little. Dude seems to be living the life he always wanted. The snarky side of
me grumbles that he's probably still not happy .. but damn he sure looks it.

------
markovbling
Very difficult to reconcile because, in my own experience at least, I get
across the board better results if I almost "trick" myself into feeling I
_need_ whatever I'm working towards.

What's weird to come to terms with is that the self-hypnosis of psyching
yourself into working really hard has by definition succeeded when you no
longer need it.

------
davidw
Then I'd be in shape, out enjoying my bicycle in the local hills, have a lot
more time for my kids and wife, and computer time would probably just be
"fooling around with open source stuff" \- I do enjoy programming so I would
not want to give it up. Sounds nice, I'd like to sign up.

------
Jack000
Last week I quit my job of 3 years to travel. The plan is to stay at a
different city each month.

I've been told "Isn't it risky to give up such a well paying job". Well it
seems to me the real risk is to sit in a beige box for 10 years and have
little other experiences besides work and vacation.

------
greghinch
There are a lot of things in life which are better than money, and they're all
_very, very_ expensive

------
myth_drannon
Similar to Erich Fromm quote: "If I am what I have and if I lose what I have
who then am I?"

------
zk00006
To get to point when you don't need more money is not that hard. But it
certainly depends how much you want. In the end you have one hamburger for
lunch anyway [Bill Gates]. Attention is trickier. It brings more power, but
also more social pressure.

------
nsxwolf
How many people really need or want attention? I somehow know that nothing I
have ever done or will do would ever earn me any attention, so it must be the
case that I don't need it or I'd be very unhappy right now.

Is this a Silicon Valley thing?

~~~
chippy
Depends how you define attention. From your spouse saying "that's nice" or you
fellow coder saying "cool" to a billion people using your software, to hacker
news karma, or acknowledgement of your comment. You can see the range of
attention that I'm trying to get across.

------
hackluck
Amen! Agreed. I always like thinkers that challenge the unexamined life and
its motivations. It gives you something to think about and just enough
motivation to question why you are doing what you are doing-- and make a
change.

------
ironhide
My life would be more like a star trek character beamed to an undeveloped
planet.

Picard - "People are no longer obsessed with the accumulation of 'things'. We
have eliminated hunger, want, the need for possessions."

------
spiritplumber
If I didn't need money or attention I would do roughly what I do now. I
consider that a great blessing.

Find a job you love and keep enough distance to not grow to hate it, and
that's half a recipe for happiness right there.

------
Mz
Funny/ironic: I'm actually already doing the stuff I believe in ... and trying
to figure out how to monetize it, which requires me to figure out how to get
traffic (aka "attention").

------
cykho
I think most great hackers (and hacks) are driven by curiosity. Things that
have the highest expected value for returning money/attention are usually
boring.

------
neumann
Significant changes to one's life, such as deaths, sickness, and births tend
to pull people's perspective on this direction (at least temporarily).

------
FollowSteph3
Pure R&D without the need for profit. That gives you whole classes of problems
you can look. Especially longer term and higher risk projects

------
loisaidasam
"Be content with what you have; rejoice in the way things are. When you
realize there is nothing lacking, the whole world belongs to you."

-Lao Tzu

------
tdees40
In the words of the poet Philip Larkin, we're all "stumbling up the stair/into
fulfillment's desolate attic."

------
tim333
Dunno. I inherited money and have been in roughly that position for much of my
life. Try to have fun and make stuff that's cool?

------
hownottowrite
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7414767](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7414767)

------
chippy
Goes against the Protestant Work Ethic. This states that to be a good person
you have do be diligent and work hard.

~~~
ctdonath
Disagree (Protestant here). Nothing stopping you from being diligent and
working hard when all your financial needs are met.

I would...exist. Off grid, as back-to-basics as possible. Minutes ago I was
looking up how to obtain & grind wheat with a hand mill, lamenting not having
enough land to grow my own. Bottomless supply of money? would cover the basics
of buying the land (cheap though my choice would be), ensuring taxes &
recurring overhead take care of themselves, buying the tools needed which I'd
not yet gotten around to making from raw materials, and (insofar as I'm a geek
obsessed with things I've no hope of making myself) buying leading-edge high-
tech widgets which would in turn be applied to pay for themselves. Should
endless funds truly tempt me, they'd be applied to (again) ultimately self-
funding ventures.

My problem now is being stuck with a "market peak" mortgage. I'm painfully
aware of how vital - and how near - financial independence is. "All the money
I'd need" isn't really that much, as I've already earned - and spent less than
wisely - it. I was actually quite close to that point, then found that love
can be quite pricy.

------
andretti1977
Money, attention...these should be side-effects in living a good life. So
simple, so true.

------
iopq
I would browser hacker news or reddit all day. It's quite stimulating

~~~
JetSpiegel
I already do that!

------
tegeek
When you realize you've enough of everything, you are truly rich.

------
adamzerner
It's a cliche idea, but it was articulated really well here.

------
outside1234
i feel so fortunate that i can truly say, that for me, one of those things is
software.

i really would do this for nothing.

(don't tell my boss)

------
EGreg
I feel afraid for that pigeon

------
graycat
Likely you'd be dead!

------
_sabe_
I hate compliments. I become uncomfortable when people say nice things to me
because I don't know if they are sarcastic or not. Probably because I'm never
satisfied with my own results always thinking about how I could have done it
better.

Secondly I hate everything material, even so money. I make just enough money
to pay the bills and other essentials, but if someone I know even remotely
would ask me for $100 I would never ever think about getting it back.

No one else who can relate to this?

~~~
prezjordan
Yep. Same boat. I'm a student though, so I'm curious how things will change
once I start my career.

I'm a bit minimalist, and it sounds like you are too. I hate carrying more
than one bag when I travel, and the thought of having a ton of stuff I don't
need makes me really, really uncomfortable. It's surreal.

Do you use this "never satisfied" outlook for personal improvement? I'm really
glad I act that way. It keeps me moving forward, even if I seem a little
cynical along the way.

~~~
jackvalentine
I'm a student too, in my final year. In a month my employment is going to
finish and I'll have 9 months of living on savings until it's all over.

I own a largish TV, a few consoles, a bunch of stuff I don't need. It _does_
make me feel very uncomfortable. I suspect rather than dipping in to savings
too much, I'll be simply selling things off.

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a3voices
You would probably spend your time writing blog posts criticizing other
successful people [1], or invading small peninsulas like Crimea.

[1] [http://blog.pmarca.com/2014/03/18/when-carl-icahn-ran-a-
comp...](http://blog.pmarca.com/2014/03/18/when-carl-icahn-ran-a-company-the-
story-of-twa/)

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notastartup
Become a race car driver but nobody is hiring/

