
Tinder Suspends Co-Founder In Wake Of Sexual Harassment Lawsuit - doppp
http://techcrunch.com/2014/06/30/tinder-suspends-co-founder-in-wake-of-sexual-harassment-lawsuit/
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davidu
People saying "she planned this" or that "she writes all legal-y" don't
understand how this works.

Consider that this is only a tiny snapshot of the entire (horrible) ordeal,
selected by her lawyers to reflect the egregious components of their behavior,
placed in contrast to her requests to cease. Of course they include the ones
where she says stop, and the aggressor(s) persist.

There could be, and likely is, far worse interactions, where she didn't say
stop, that they didn't include in their exhibits. They will come to light
later if this suit progresses.

There are also probably texts that make her look bad, too. Where she lets it
go, or even plays along. Maybe she was too tired that day to argue. Maybe she
hoped it would stop if she answered questions. Who knows? I don't.

But that doesn't make her guilty of any wrongdoing, or absolve them of their
erroneous ways. People have a right to work in a harassment-free workplace,
and employers have a duty to ensure it operates that way. That's all that will
matter at the end of this.

And from what's included in the suit, my quick read is that they are in a very
bad spot, both ethically and legally. Sean Rad seems like a woefully and
perilously unqualified CEO.

~~~
facepalm
"horrible ordeal" \- I'm sorry, but if you dislike your workplace, you can
always quit. That's not to justify sexual harassment, but the picture you
evoke of a "horrible ordeal" just seems next to impossible. An ordeal would
have to go on for quite a while, and then the question really is why don't you
quit.

~~~
threeseed
Sorry but have you actually worked before because it's never that black/white.

You may love/hate any combination of work, boss, people, culture, location,
pay, politics, perks, title etc. Maybe it was the perfect job except for the
sexual harassment. In which case just quitting isn't so simple.

~~~
facepalm
"it's never that black/white."

Exactly - that is exactly what I am trying to say... I just can't stand the
mob mentality on here.

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minimaxir
I recommend taking a look at the original complaint for even more context,
especially with the exhibits.

[http://www.rezlaw.com/News-
Events/06-30-14_Complaint_with_Ex...](http://www.rezlaw.com/News-
Events/06-30-14_Complaint_with_Exhibits-1.pdf)

~~~
pwny
Thanks for the link. The exhibits really paint an appalling portrait of the
guy. He's acting like an insecure 14 year old.

I don't want to downplay the situation but I feel like it's your
responsibility as an adult to disengage from situations like this faster than
she did. Hindsight is 20/20 I guess but the whole situation seems to have been
really mishandled (and that's a feeling I'm getting from a court complaint
from her side). Again, I'm not saying she asked for it or anything, just that
pursuing an ongoing relationship might not have been the best idea.

In any case, that seems to be a terrible working environment. I also find it
kind of ironic that the co-founders of an inherently social app like Tinder
appear so poor at handling interpersonal/romantic relationships.

~~~
davedx
> I don't want to downplay the situation but I feel like it's your
> responsibility

Article about sexual harassment on HN. Came to comments expected victim
blaming, 2nd sentence in 2nd comment.

Well done.

~~~
pwny
If that's how it came across I probably really expressed myself improperly
because that wasn't my point at all (English being my second language probably
doesn't help and I really hesitated to post because I knew there was a chance
I wasn't properly formulating my argument).

So let me clarify: I don't believe it was her fault in any way. Quite the
opposite, I believe 100% that the guy is at fault here. My point was more
related to the fact that we (myself included) tend to maintain relationships
that are clearly unhealthy in hindsight. I probably should have chosen a
better word than responsibility seeing as it was more a comment aimed at the
apparent lack of capacity to adequately disengage from unhealthy situations a
lot of adults seem to exhibit. We're not used to saying "no" and to moving on.
I was only saying this because similar situations happened to me in which I
wished later that I could have disengaged and saved me some heartache.

I believe (only from reading this complaint) that the behavior exhibited by
Mateen is unacceptable and reprehensible and that he's clearly at fault. My
intention was not to blame her but merely to express a general observation
regarding a lot of relationship failures I witnessed. So if this came across
as victim blaming I sincerely apologize. It wasn't the intent.

~~~
danilocampos
It's nothing to do with how you said it.

The point is that reading something like this, the least interesting topic is
what the complainant could have done differently.

The principle discussion is: never shoulda happened. Inappropriate,
unacceptable. Not second guessing the strategy of someone in an impossible
situation.

But you led with that.

That's why you got called out.

~~~
pwny
I have to disagree that it's the least interesting topic. A relationship is
never a one way street and while in this situation one of the party clearly
seems to be at fault, it's not always the case. Of course it never should have
happened but it has and so the discussion about damage mitigation is still a
valid one.

I wish I was taught any kind of disengagement skill when I was being bullied
as a kid, even though it never should have happened (and since I can foresee
the uproar here, I'm in no way implying the two are equivalent but merely
noticing similarities).

~~~
DanBC
It's a shame that "here are some tips to protect yourzelf from assholes" only
come up after a case like this. Because in this context it does feel a little
bit like victim blaming, even with all the caveats.

~~~
silencio
That's because it should read "here are some tips to avoid being an asshole".
"Here are tips to protect yourself from assholes" is very much victim blaming
no matter the context.

Sure, some of it - most of it - might be good advice (e.g. don't date
cofounders/coworkers) but in the end that advice in itself won't do anything
if the other person is an asshole. Whitney could have avoided a relationship
and tried to defuse things as best as she could, but Justin could still have
been an ass and harass her for rejecting him.

~~~
peterwwillis
Victim-blaming implies someone has blamed someone else for their circumstance.
Telling someone how to avoid assholes is not victim-blaming, its education
that all [young] adults should receive, because it helps people make informed
decisions and be responsible adults.

All adults maintain responsibility for their own actions. That goes for both
the assholes and the victims. Ideally, everyone would get exactly the same
training, because everyone has the capacity to be either an asshole or a
victim.

Of course we know that in our particular society (as in many others) women are
at higher risk for being abused, and men are more likely to be the abuser. So
it seems like there should still be an equal amount of education, but that men
should probably receive greater feedback about how (and why) not to be an
asshole, and women should receive greater feedback on how to protect
themselves from assholes.

------
enraged_camel
I'm really glad that lawsuits like this are becoming more common, or at least
more publicized. I see it as a sign that people are becoming better at
recognizing inappropriate workplace behavior and finding the courage to
litigate over it. It sets the right example for others who are in similar
situations.

------
zak_mc_kracken
From the documents:

> As Ms. Wolfe began to head toward the exit, she was accosted by Mr. Rad’s
> guest at the party who spat in her face.

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pskittle
It's surprising the CEO of match said "it doesn't bother me I can sleep at
night"

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harmegido
From reading the texts, I've decided that none of these people know how to
type. And I can't understand someone that high profile not realizing that
these things are going to come to light at some point.

~~~
tlrobinson
I immediately lose all respect for anyone who can't be bothered to type out
"you" instead of "u", especially anyone over the age of ~21, and _especially_
in professional contexts.

Of course these idiots also apparently have no concept of "professional
contexts".

------
itazula
As the saying goes, "Kids playing house."

------
ASneakyFox
The whole thing sounds like an episode of some reality tv show with teenagers.
Both of them should be feeling embarassed about themselves.

~~~
davidu
I hope by both of them you mean the CMO and CEO.

This woman has nothing to be embarrassed about, although I'm sure she is.
Going public must have been a terrifyingly difficult thing to do. It certainly
would have been for me.

~~~
ASneakyFox
They were dating and they broke up. This is all a teenager break up story.
Just they have the money and publicity to tell the whole world about it.

Hes still guilty of harassment. But I'm sure if more records were released We
would see a lot that makes her look bad and probably guilty of similiar crimes
if not the same ones.

This is why no established company allows dating in the work place. Break up
arguments are now workplace harassment charges.

------
facepalm
"The suit also describes the romantic relationship that Mateen pursued with
Wolfe"

Taking revenge 101...

------
styles
What an idiot.

------
arfliw
You can tell from the beginning of those texts that she was planning this all
along, or at the very least - preparing for it. She uses legal language
throughout and says little else: 'stop threatening me' 'this is harassment'
'you are effecting my working environment' etc etc.

~~~
memorex55
I used to know this girl (Whitney). I knew her for many years, and I have to
say that she was probably baiting them at the very least. The guy is clearly
slimy and should lose his job, and of course, people change... but over a year
ago, another friend and I predicted that something very similar to this would
happen. She has played this role in the past.

~~~
ninavizz
She's a WOMAN, not a girl. Sorry—no intent in being PC, but as a female in the
biz, it's just profoundly abrasive to read "girl" all over the place.

In a social context, a woman cam be a "girl." In business, she's a woman.
Always. Period. This is a business matter, where personal stuff got
inappropriately smeared-in to the business, which is the premise of the
lawsuit.

Guys: We don't call you boys at work. Woman, please please please.

~~~
rlu
This is obviously kind of delicate, but as someone who has referred to young-
ish women as girls before, I'll at least attempt to explain my confusion.

Men are often called "guys" \- and the connotation to me is just a more
informal way of saying "men".

What is the female equivalent of "guy"? Is it chick? Chick certainly doesn't
seem right and (to me) kind of has different meaning associated with it as
compared to any extra meaning "guy" has when compared to "man".

"Woman" usually seems very formal to me in the same way that "Man" does.
So...what do I use instead? Sometimes I do use girl in its place because it
seems less formal but (I thought) not offensive.

If someone says "do you know who John Doe is" in a work context, I will
probably say something like "oh he's a guy working on XYZ"

If someone asks "do you know who Jane Doe is" in a work context, I will
sometimes say "oh she's a girl working on XYZ". I admit there is some extra
thought process in choosing the pronoun:

\---1. Who am I speaking to?

\---2. How old is the person they are referring to?

IDK. Kind of just a brain dump, but just wanted to explain where I come from.
But I'll internalize the fact that this may actually be irritating to the
women I'm referring to. And that was never my intent.

Edit: I just realized that even in your comment you used "Guys" and not "Men".
Basically case in point as to the 'conflict'. Why didn't you type Men? it just
feels kinda formal, right? But maybe I should just bite the bullet and go the
formal route if my attempt to be less formal just ends up being offensive...

------
Johnie
As all the corporate training says: "Don't put into writing what you don't
want to see on the cover of the WSJ."

This is a pure example of what happens when you do not listen to that adage.

~~~
zacharycohn
I kind of doubt any of these people have ever worked in a place big enough to
have "corporate training."

~~~
ninavizz
"Big enough for corporate training" is the golden ticket. No company should
have to be big enough, for training to be available. Yes, I am actively
changing that... stay tuned.

