
Chef David Chang on failure, Thoreau, and vegetarians - spydez
http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/1156-chef-david-chang-on-failure-thoreau-and-vegetarians
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bluishgreen
"On how he feels about vegetarians: I respect them, just not in our
restaurants…"

Ok, there is so much hatred in this line.

I am a vegetarian. I like good food, but most of my friends will most likely
differ with regards to what they consider as "good food". But you see, I love
those great conversations that can happen only over a dinner table,
overlooking a busy bustling street full of new york, or by the window on the
ocean front watching the sun move into the sea.

Some of us can not eat non-vegetarian food because we were brought up like
that(I grew up in India). Some people think that it takes a lot of discipline
and political liberalism to be a vegetarian. Fact is I cannot bring myself to
swallow a piece of meat anymore than a regular American can bring herself to
eat dog meat or grass hopper fries. I will throw up, it has nothing to do with
conscious thought, its faar past that point.

Most of the time, when a bunch of people go to a dinner at a restaurant, I
always tag along. I almost never have an opinion as to which place to go to,
because I know I wont like the food anyway. But I tag along. And yes, I will
ask this chef dude to pick out the meat, not out of dis-respect for what he
does, but because I want to be with my friends, because I love conversations
and sunsets.

~~~
notdarkyet
I didn't really feel the hatred that you feel. As a vegetarian as well, I have
come to terms with the fact that I will not be able to have the same
experience that the people I go out with will have, but it is selfish to
believe that people should cater to your needs and beliefs. Vegetarianism is a
choice I made and my friends should not have to sacrifice their time or
happiness to cater to mine. I just got back from vacation and eating was
actually not that enjoyable because almost every restaurant served mainly
seafood so I was left to eat various side dishes (most not too healthy). Chang
is targeting a certain market and group of people and he said himself that it
is NY and there are many other specialty restaurants for people to eat. Enjoy
all the things that go along with the meal and experience, and then get your
fill after or someone else. To expect that every place cater to your beliefs
or lifestyle is selfish and he said he respects vegetarians, what more could
you want?

~~~
bluishgreen
Where did I say that people have to cater to my beliefs and lifestyle. I know
language has limitations when it comes to communication. But I am really
astounded as to how you came to this interpretation of what I said.

Let me write it again: My friends go to this place, I tag along because I want
to be with my friends. Chef dude or friends dont have to be offended - because
I am not demanding anything, I am saying please please don't mind me, and go
ahed and have fun.

~~~
jonknee
> I am saying please please don't mind me, and go ahed and have fun.

You already said you'd make "chef dude" pick out the meat. That requires him
to mind you and cater to your lifestyle. He said he won't, that you should eat
somewhere else. He's standing behind his food and that should be applauded.

~~~
bluishgreen
Ok, I am having so much difficulty to get this across, cause I am coming to
understand that we come from very different places. So I am gonna keep trying.
and then more.

"That requires him to mind you and cater to your lifestyle", when I said that
my vegetarianism springs not from conscious thought, you should understand
that its no longer a choice for me. Now if this guy stands for his food, I
will show you an architect who thinks large obvious parking spaces with blue
paint smeared on them makes his beautiful beautiful building look bad. Would
you consider going back on disability laws?

Now I am not going to stand and say this is how all vegetarians are. But the
fact that I exist and many many more like me, should make you reconsider.

Can't passion for your food, and compassion for a fellow human being co-exist?

~~~
jonknee
If restaurants were required by law to serve vegetarian dishes, you would have
a point. But luckily that's not the case. I don't eat sea food, so if friends
are going to a sea food restaurant I either opt not to go or make arrangements
to eat before or after. It's not a big deal, I am not going to try and have
the kitchen whip up something else because I can't deal with their menu.

There are people with serious food allergies, so much so that they will die if
they eat certain foods, but restaurants are not required to make available
optional dishes for all possible patrons (for you it's veggies, for someone
else it's gluten for someone else it's peanuts, etc etc etc). No one can
please everyone. If you can't eat the food, just don't go.

~~~
bluishgreen
"If restaurants were required by law to serve vegetarian dishes, you would
have a point."

It wasn't a law to have large obvious blue parking spaces before some one
pointed out. Did they not have a point before it became a law? Is anything
that is illegal at this point in time pointless?

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ken
I can kind of see his point, but he's missing the boat if he's never had
vegetarian sushi. Vegetables have long been an important part of sushi. I also
find this to be a good litmus test for an itamae: the ones my fish-eating
friends love the most, also make the best food without fish.

It's simply another constraint, and as much as we say we hate them, they're
crucial to our work. I see "make me great food, with no meat" is not much
different from "write an interrupt handler, in under 200 bytes" or "paint a
fresco, on the ceiling".

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notdarkyet
An influential quote that stuck with me was when Chang stated (when referring
to Walden by Thoreau) that "if you really try and you want to do something,
then go for broke". This means a lot to me because while growing up I was
always told that you can never put all your eggs in one basket. So,
accordingly, I focussed on developing a wide breadth of skills, but
subsequently I never felt like I had mastered any to the point that I could
develop a profession in. At twenty two I am starting to realize this fact and
while scary, I am glad that I still have time to narrow my focus. I am on my
last year of college so it is late to be prodigious in any field, but that
does not mean I cannot be the best. I just wish I was told to go for broke
growing up rather than to "not put my eggs all in one basket" because now
rather than feel I have nothing to fall back on, I feel scared to dive into
one particular field (but maybe that just comes with the age and the crossroad
I am at in my life).

The greatest thing that you can grab from this interview, though, is the
parallel (not implied) between why he stopped playing golf at such a young age
and the ethos that he runs his restaurants by. Claiming to be a fairly
competitive individual, he said that he stopped playing golf for mostly two
reasons, 1.) it was no longer fun to do competitively and 2.) he knew that he
would not be the best. Whether he acknowledges this or not, he has gone the
other direction with his restaurants. He was asked by Rose if he desires to
have a restaurant that is "Michelin Star" caliber but strongly stated that he
did not wish to do so. The laid back demeanor and attitude reflects the way he
runs his restaurant. The moment you strive to be the best, the fun and
enjoyable elements can disappear quite fast (I can speak from personal
experience myself playing competitive golf as well). He has simply worked hard
at his trade with the focus of doing well and living by a few simple
principles (not to mention a little luck thrown in). You have to decide
yourself whether it is worth sacrificing some happiness to reach the end goal
you desire (Chang had said that attaining a Michelin would come with a stress
level they do not need).

~~~
anthonyrubin
Here is Thoreau's full quote in context:

"We must learn to reawaken and keep ourselves awake, not by mechanical aids,
but by an infinite expectation of the dawn, which does not forsake us in our
soundest sleep. I know of no more encouraging fact than the unquestionable
ability of man to elevate his life by a conscious endeavor. It is something to
be able to paint a particular picture, or to carve a statue, and so to make a
few objects beautiful; but it is far more glorious to carve and paint the very
atmosphere and medium through which we look, which morally we can do. To
affect the quality of the day, that is the highest of arts. Every man is
tasked to make his life, even in its details, worthy of the contemplation of
his most elevated and critical hour. If we refused, or rather used up, such
paltry information as we get, the oracles would distinctly inform us how this
might be done."

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electric
Irony is that Chang would've likely failed to get Thoreau to eat at his
restaurant.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_David_Thoreau>

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axod
How is this hacker news???

~~~
jonknee
Hackers are not limited to working with computers. What do you think chefs do
in the kitchen when working on new dishes? It's hacking.

~~~
axod
Seems a bit of a stretch to me. If I was interested in cookery, I'd be at a
cookery site.

~~~
jonknee
The link wasn't even about cookery. It was about a chef (hacker) talking about
his business (startup). Quite interesting actually. There is much to be
learned outside the valley.

