
Behaviors resembling ADHD may be linked to increased entrepreneurial behavior - anthilemoon
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/08/200812164926.htm
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james_s_tayler
This actually has nothing to do with ADHD. It's badly named and badly thought
out.

It's actually reporting on a 2nd order effect sleep deprivation has via
impaired executive function on impulsivity.

Should be titled 'Sleep deprivation may be linked to increased entreprenurial
behavior'.

It reads like low-quality, hot garbage.

~~~
georgespencer
Agreed. Seems very likely to perpetuate the myth of ADHD sufferers as being
gifted with neurological superpowers when actually the "ADHD-like" symptoms
they describe are debilitating for many.

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james_s_tayler
The premise is just warped from the start. "Hey kids, impaired executive
function may make you more likely to succeed in life."

I mean... what?

Starting a company (or three) because your impulse control is shot is
statistically more likely to financially ruin you than it is to make you
succeed. Not to mention how useful properly functioning executive function is
in actually running a company that has a chance of succeeding. Take it from
me...

~~~
tokai
But think of all the possible benefits of sleep issues! The amount of growth
we could have if everyone just slept a little worse. /s

~~~
akuji1993
That point is what really gets me going. This experiment is badly designed
from the start. Experiment 1 is especially useless, as it tries to correlate
answers that people gave while being sleep deprived to their general sleep
patterns and assumes that the outcome is the same. What?

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scohesc
I have ADHD (and chronic sleep issues) that were undiagnosed until I was in my
early 20's.

With a less than stellar childhood under my belt with an abusive, narcissistic
father and enabling mother, I ended up being a social recluse and only
recently in my mid 20's have I figured out that I'm severely lacking in my
"executive functioning" skills (along with other ideal skills like social
skills, people skills, etc.) thanks to finally seeing a psychiatrist about
it... (5 years seeing them on and off and I'm still working through my issues
- for those with problems, please stick with your mental health care, it helps
a lot even if it doesn't seem like it most times)

It's insurmountably hard to dig out of the hole I've dug with numerous issues
(ADHD, anxiety, depression, chronic issues with restful sleep since a young
age - not helped by my obesity and my apparent "ability" to convince myself
not to exercise even though I think about doing it - and get angry when I
don't do it \- fairly often)

I guess I can congratulate myself that I was able to make it through college
and have a full-time job in Engineering making somewhat decent money.

I get angry at myself pretty much almost daily for the things that I've failed
to do, awkward situations I've been in, things I regret doing or not doing...
It's taken (and is still taking) a very big toll on my mental health and I
don't think any medication will help me with that. It gets to the point where
I'm so frustrated, I'll make angry "noises" out loud (when alone - that's
weird to do publicly) in a way to try and help get what's bugging me out
because I can't talk to anybody around me about it.

Now, with that MASSIVE tangent - I can see the paper making sense in that ADHD
will allow people to take more "risks" without thinking of the consequences
too much, which could be interpreted as "entrepreneurial", however I think
it's just renaming/re-badging something that should be addressed and
corrected/adjusted, not celebrated...

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nbardy
Nonsense. We need to create a society that allows people outside the narrow
band of “can sit focused on a narrow set of tasks” for 8 hours to have
successful. Careers. Create space for the risk takers to take risks.

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owens99
A lot of people in the comments appear to have a misunderstanding of ADHD and
sleep disorders. It is possible to have both conditions simultaneously, and
likely very common. ADHD is a condition defined by a sustained period of
symptoms, not underlying causes or biological tests. It is 100% consistent for
someone to have ADHD in one environment and not in another. This is how it is
viewed in psychiatry. If you spend many years as an accountant focusing on
detailed work in your job, but you can’t focus to complete your work, you may
be diagnosed with ADHD and treated with medicine. If you then change careers
to be an artist in a creative field, but face no dysfunction or difficulty in
completing your work, you would no longer be diagnosed. The same applies to
having a sleep disorder and then getting it treated. Though it is not clear if
sleep disorders in childhood cause irreversible changes to the brain.

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thrav
Just to be clear, your diagnosis may change, but you’re not any less ADHD
(assuming you actually were in the first place). ADHD is a product of the
brain developing in a different way. It’s not contextual, even if it’s most
obvious symptoms might be.

~~~
owens99
I’m sure there is disagreement among some doctors over this, but ADHD in the
current medical literature is not defined by brain function, it is defined by
sustained dysfunction in life situations.

~~~
thrav
The brain forms differently in ADHD individuals. Certain regions have slower
or stunted growth. If you’d like to know more, it’s explained in the beginning
of this lecture: [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SCAGc-
rkIfo](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SCAGc-rkIfo)

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synaesthesisx
As an anecdote, some of the brightest founders I’ve met, and have had the
pleasure of working with - would certainly fall into this category.

Some of these folks have expressed their challenges in functioning optimally
in traditional structured 9-to-5’s, open-office environments and the like.
Perhaps they are motivated by creating an environment that works for them,
rather than being a product of a one-size-fits-all approach.

We need to embrace neurodiversity, not stigmatize it.

 _“Here’s to the crazy ones, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers, the
round pegs in the square holes… the ones who see things differently — they’re
not fond of rules… You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify
them, but the only thing you can’t do is ignore them because they change
things… they push the human race forward, and while some may see them as the
crazy ones, we see genius, because the ones who are crazy enough to think that
they can change the world, are the ones who do.“_

~~~
halfFact
>We need to embrace neurodiversity, not stigmatize it

I probably have ADHD as I've been told by everyone since 5th grade.

I feel normal and function fine. I have an engineering degree and IMO perform
better than most.

I'm pretty anti medication ever since I got addicted to caffeine. Since then
productivity plummeted when I wasn't on caffeine. On a similar note, I found
myself addicted to weed because it made me extremely productive and I was
using that after work. (I'm off everything, and not very productive)

My point is, drugs should be the last resort. Once you start them it's nearly
impossible to go back. It seems this is the first step with every Physician.

~~~
freeone3000
They are highly effective, fairly cheap, and usually well tolerated. I'm not
saying that a few years of learning coping mechanisms won't help, but as
you've experienced... Without the executive function to put it in practice, or
the memory to compare, it's rough going.

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ekanes
ADHD makes normal life/jobs/college harder, which leaves entrepreneurship as a
viable option. It might be less chosen and more that you don't fit as well
into regular societal work expectations. That was my case. Worked out well for
me, but when I failed grade 12 and then failed out of college it didn't seem
great at the time.

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jl2718
I have seen this pattern in the vast majority of successful entrepreneurs I
know personally. Fail at school, fired at work, fail, fail, fail, something
works, focus, convince everybody that they are actually a genius, tres commas.
Prior to success, they have seemed indistinguishable from the many others that
ended up just plain failing and going nowhere.

Personally I was a reformable failure in that I once had ‘entrepreneur’
potential but succumbed to just enough conscientiousness to chase a
traditional career path from behind.

Maybe there is hope that someday I will screw up badly enough in the
traditional path to force myself into doing something great.

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yomly
Anecdotally, most of the people from my high school who went on to be
entrepreneurial definitely had a naughty streak in them.

I think there is an overlap in the two personalities for sure

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tokai
So what about stims like amphetamine or cocaine? They provide even more
impulsive tendencies and hyperactivity than a bad nights sleep.

To be honest its sound to me like they are getting the effect backwards.

~~~
schwartzworld
this is a fundamental misunderstanding of how ADHD affects adults and what
amphetamines do. Amphetamines (in appropriate doses) do not make you impulsive
and hyper, at least not if you have adhd. They make you focused and better at
finishing what you start. Little miracle pills.

~~~
georgespencer
This is true, and the same is true of other stimulants in ADHD sufferers. For
example, it ticks a box in ADHD diagnosis if a patient reports having had a
paradoxical reaction to cocaine (drowsiness, focus, a feeling of quietness),
because although the pharmacology is, to say the least, not as precise when
compared to e.g. lisdexamfetamine, the impact is the same: both block the
reuptake of dopamine in the brain.

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S_A_P
What does ADHD have to do with sleep deprivation?!?? Why are we conflating
poor sleep habits with ADHD unless someone is abusing ADHD medication and not
getting enough sleep? Why do I let poorly written articles bother me so much?

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owens99
Poor sleep is not just caused by poor sleep habits. Sleep apnea, as an
example, is a disability that causes poor sleep and often goes undiagnosed.
ADHD is not a disability per se, it is classified by the symptoms and is not
classified by any underlying cause.

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S_A_P
I totally agree and that is why I dont understand why it is linking ADHD and
sleep deprivation.

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freeone3000
Because many people with ADHD have poor sleep habits, and it's a recognized
symptom.

