
Instead of ‘finding your passion,’ try developing it, Stanford scholars say - mengledowl
https://news.stanford.edu/2018/06/18/find-passion-may-bad-advice/
======
anoplus
I explore passion because I think there are things more "economical" to be
passionate about.

I am now a software developer. When I was in high-school I didn't get the
point of computers beyond playing pc games all summer long. I just heard once
in a while "if you pick cumputers major you will have a descent job". I was a
painter in high-school. I wanted to create amazing and realistic paintings to
wow everyone. And I wowed everyone. The passion to wow people was beyond
school grades, parties and sleeping hours. After high school I lost my art
passion immediately (art is not practical) and explored my passions again. I
want to solve real problems and finally got the "purpose" of computers in the
world.

I found that I enjoy almost everything I do if stress free. I love working,
cleaning, cooking, shopping, fixing, gardening, eating slowly, as long I am
not rushing. Cleaning and gardening are great "exercise" you activate a lot of
muscles with a reward at the end. Clean house and nice garden. When I do it I
try to forget about time which turns it to an ecstasy almost.

There is one thing that is obviously worthy to be passionate about which I am
struggeling to crack for years (although improving much).

Passion for people. Many tasks that involve people are often a pain for me. I
love people but its hard to "just call someone". Just "invite someone to hang
out". Maybe is because "just hangout with someone" is not clearly defined.
What is the point? what do we want to talk about? I don't socialize a lot
outside of work. Why people prefer video games over socializing? I find this
topic facinating...

~~~
wonderbear
> Maybe is because "just hangout with someone" is not clearly defined. What is
> the point? what do we want to talk about? I don't socialize a lot outside of
> work.

I felt this way for a very long time. Never had many friends growing up for
much this reason; it didn't feel rewarding to spend time with anyone except my
stepdad (my mentor, because I was always learning with him and he was one of
the only people that made me feel safe) and my sports comrades (but only when
we were practicing).

In adulthood, though, there's several people I enjoy so much that it seems
worth it to spend a fair bit of effort just to be in their presence for some
time. We don't even have to do anything particularly interesting. I don't
understand why I want to be around them so much, but I do, and I wonder if
this is the connection I've been missing the whole time.

The other weekend I took a six hour flight just to go on a hike with some of
these people (there's plenty of hiking where I was already) because I missed
them so much being away for work. It's like being hungry. Being around them is
a dopamine hit.

For a while I only felt this way about a tiny handful of people I met in grad
school so it seemed like the same sort of thing where you spend a lot of time
and effort at a hobby and then find that you are passionate about it. Spend a
lot of time (and college type bonding experiences) with some people and you'll
find you're passionate about your friendship. But then in my early thirties I
met a couple new friends and the same feeling happened within days of meeting
them, so I don't understand the dynamic at all. What makes someone fall in
love with their friends?

Apologies for going off on a tangent here. It was a thought provoking comment.

~~~
nojvek
I love hanging around with people who think differently than I do. Bring a
different perspective on things. Have good stories to tell, seek deeper
theorems on why things are the way they are. The ideas need to have sex in
order to birth even greater ideas.

Hikes and long drives are a great way to foster relationships. There is
something about being around places that you haven’t been before that provoke
new ideas.

------
mengledowl
For those that are interested in this concept, Cal Newport wrote a fantastic
book about this concept of developing a passion rather than "finding" it in
his book "So Good They Can't Ignore You". Very highly recommend.

~~~
SyneRyder
Also, it's currently on sale on Kindle (looks like $2.22 on the US store,
$2.99 on the Australian store). I'm not sure what I think of the book yet, but
people I respect have rated it highly.

~~~
nift
Doesn't seem to be on sale for kindle anymore? When I go to the Amazon US it
costs $10.52.

Do you have a direct link?

~~~
SyneRyder
Yup, still showing for sale on Kindle here for $2.22 US, also tried visiting
via a US VPN:

[https://www.amazon.com/Good-They-Cant-Ignore-You-
ebook/dp/B0...](https://www.amazon.com/Good-They-Cant-Ignore-You-
ebook/dp/B01KFR64LQ/)

But I'm in Australia, so it's possible it's an Australia-only sale, even
though I'm looking on the US site.

Edit: Also, here's the direct Amazon Australia link:
[https://www.amazon.com.au/Good-They-Cant-Ignore-You-
ebook/dp...](https://www.amazon.com.au/Good-They-Cant-Ignore-You-
ebook/dp/B01KFR64LQ/)

~~~
bachmeier
Price at the US link is $13.99. Australia link says they won't sell me the
Kindle version.

~~~
cableshaft
Same here, located in the US.

------
mark_l_watson
Good article but for much more detailed argument I like Cal Newport’s books
like Be So Good They Can’t Ignore You better.

I had a summer job programming in 1970 and really didn’t like it, but I was
making something like $5/hour and learned FORTRAN. When I graduated with a BS
in Physics and wanted a job I took a scientific programming job. I thought,
‘yuck, oh well.’ Funny thing was, after about 6 months I realized how good I
was and that made it fun. I even gave up all free time for 2 years to take
undergraduate and graduate CS classes at a local university.

Yes, the better you get at something, the more fun it sometimes is.

~~~
NetOpWibby
I can vouch for this.

------
throwaway0255
I've found that usually when people say they're "passionate" about something,
what they're really saying is that they have a deep yearning for the high
social status they would attain if they were great at or well-known for that
thing.

Also, that they believe their status is higher because they're passionate
about that thing, and they wanted to remind you of that.

Half the time it's something they don't even devote very much time to, and
aren't even that good at.

That might be why these "follow your passion" speeches are so effective.
Everyone in the audience can have a different high-status activity in mind,
and the word "passion" is like a global variable that maps straight to
whatever every individual believes is the best way to achieve high social
status. So you get the whole audience, and everyone can start daydreaming in
unison.

~~~
wufufufu
> I've found that usually when people say they're "passionate" about
> something, what they're really saying is that they have a deep yearning for
> the high social status they would attain if they were great at or well-known
> for that thing.

This is you projecting your own motivations onto others.

~~~
Noumenon72
This is you denying innate motivations because you don't consciously think
about things that way.

------
rdlecler1
It makes for a nice aspirational graduation speech, but as many PhDs will
attest passion doesn’t matter much if society doesn’t value your passion and
you need to put food on the table.

~~~
nishantvyas
Problem is, "Find and follow your passion" social expectation from very early
in life. In reality, 1) "finding passion" early is hard; Before one turns 12,
brain is not fully develop to logically understand the true likes then from
13-19 it goes thru a huge amount of hormonal, emotional and physical
changes... what's left is an average 19 year old teen with I'm "not sure my
major" in college, let alone the passion.... 2) "follow passion", again the
twisted notion where one's work should absolutely be their passion too...
otherwise it's just a "hobby" and hobbies are supposedly not helpful....

If one finds their likes early, become really good at it and if that skill pay
really well... your are top 0.1% in your field.... for the rest... build a
skill that lands you a job then experiment with different hobbies... when you
find a hobby you really like hopefully by age 30-35... turn that hobby in to
passion, you still have 30-40+ year of average lifetime remaining....

~~~
darkerside
Funny, I feel like before 12 is when our brains are free of social constraints
and are most free to determine what is enjoyable or not. 5 year olds certainly
know what they like.

~~~
watwut
5 years old largely follow herd - thing becomes interesting the moment
multiple other kids have it and cease to he interesting when other kids change
interest.

They will start like things because admired adult claims to like them, they
will start to hate food because adult or other kids said it is disgusting. If
you praise kid during activity, they are significantly more likely to seek
that activity later and if you yell at them they will hate the activity
itself. Adults are much better at sorting these influences out.

You can easily manipulate pre schoolers to dislike things and while it is a
bit harder to make them like things, it is still relatively easy.

------
stareatgoats
"Follow your passion" is the answer to a specific outlier problem; when people
find themselves in a place that doesn't resonate with their passions at all (
_or to large degree_ ), with dire effects on their psyche and well-being.

It doesn't apply to everyone, most eventually find a reasonable balance in my
experience, but some people need that impetus ("follow your passion") to leave
a for them toxic situation.

------
drasticmeasures
What I'm finding instead is that, in some sub-fields, psychology isn't
developed enough to give life advice that's not going to be contradicted
later, no matter if it's Stanford scholars or not.

------
PakG1
A similar sentiment: [http://blogmaverick.com/2012/03/18/dont-follow-your-
passion-...](http://blogmaverick.com/2012/03/18/dont-follow-your-passion-
follow-your-effort/)

~~~
redmaverick
Not really:

3\. Find a job you love. Cuban says there's an easy way to tell if you've
found a job that can help you build a career.

"If it matters how much you get paid, you are not in a job you really love,"
he writes. This doesn't mean that you should not strive to make as much money
as possible, but you need to prioritize your passion over your paycheck if you
want to put yourself on a rewarding career path that allows you to thrive.

"If you love what you do so much that you are willing to continue to live like
a student in order to be able to stay in the job, you have found your
calling," Cuban writes.

4\. Be the best you can be. Once you've found your calling, whatever it is,
you should have only one goal, Cuban says: "to be the best in the world at
it."

~~~
sethrin
Hmm. What if I live like a student because I am slightly lazy, I have modest
needs, and I'm paralyzed by fear and self-doubt?

------
pasta
_" Being narrowly focused on one area could prevent individuals from
developing knowledge in other areas that could be important to their field at
a later time"_

When I try something new I alwayd remember this.

Sometimes doing things you like can feel like a waste of time because we
always hear we need to be productive.

------
Hoasi
> And the idea that passions are found fully formed implies that the number of
> interests a person has is limited.

Never met someone whose passion was "found fully formed" though...

Either way if you want to make a living out of your interest you need to
develop your passion/talent. Passion alone will get you nowhere without (years
of) training. Use common sense.

------
Kagerjay
I think finding your passion is as much as finding what you are not passionate
about. Its the reason why I like trying out so many things - I want to find
what I truly don't enjoy.

When I was in school, I did 2 years of research. Some of it was photovoltaics
research (solar cells) and I also did some shape memory alloys research used
in space-grade actuators.

I found myself not enjoying it at all.

On my metallurgical project, I would go to the lab, have to handle the most
monotonous task just to test one sample. One sample took 100 hours to prepare
and had very little tolerance for error. The equipment I used was kind of
outdated as well. I spent several hours everyday grinding a titanium billet
the size of a miniature 1/2" knife so I could check its hardness and
elasticity before I loaded it into the scanning electron microscope. I lost my
samples quite a few times so I had to start over by creating a new billet in
the arc furnace. In the end, the data I got had too much noise and basically
didn't equate to enough to publish a paper. I still defended my thesis anyhow
though. I did learn alot along the way spending hours reading graduate level
papers. The research might have helped understand actuation failure for space
grade components. But really I felt like I was crawling at a snails pacing
with the work I did. I enjoy doing things for myself first and foremost.

I find what I am most passionate about really boils down to things I did as a
kid. I used to make my own modded starcraft maps in elementary school. I would
download a popular map, throw it in the editor, add new logic, so I could make
a game either (1) more interesting or (2) add cheats and exploits for myself.
It was fun. I also built my own computer as a kid too - debugging hardware was
always painful, but the moment it clicked it felt so satisfying.

Other ways I find things I am and am not passionate about. I subscribe to
about 800 things on youtube that I find fascinating. Most of it is related to
a combination of math, computer science, electrical and mechanical
engineering. Personally I have a serious deficit knowledge on all 4 of them,
but I am always learning new things everyday. I still suck at math though and
I can't seem to understand how to do mathmatical induction and/or proofs
though.

I spent a lot of my freetime programming because this is the easiest subject
to pick up of the ones mentioned above. Its also profitable. I think its okay
to be passionate about more than one thing so long as it falls under the same
umbrella of things you want to do - building cool stuff. And that its okay to
not spend as much time workong on them due to time constraints. I also am
pretty good at welding (200+ hours) and 3D modeling as well, among other
things.

Ultimately my dream is to become a 10x engineer. Someone who is so good at
building anything with their mind and hands that I could create new works of
art. I take inspiration from a variety of leaders in those industries - from
all age groups.

