
Yesterday I had this crazy idea: People pay me $15, I make them a web design - TheCoreh
http://designfor15bucks.com/
======
Sukotto

      You allow me to put a screenshot of the design
      on this page; ($5 extra if you don't) 
    

You could reword that clause so your clients feel they're getting something
valuable for their $5.

    
    
      Please note that I post all designs to my public
      portfolio and this website.  If you need the design
      to stay secret, it only costs $5 more
    

Or you could invert your pricing. So you start off as "designfor20bucks" and
offer a $5 discount if you can add the image to your public portfolio and post
it on the site. People generally feel better about getting a deal than getting
hit with extra costs unexpectedly.

~~~
TamDenholm
Really good advice here, problem is, it'd require changing of the domain name.
:P

~~~
mgkimsal
or two domains point to the same site, and have a $20 in the logo slashed out,
replaced with $15.You're the creative one - make it work :)

~~~
chunkbot
This would make for a fun A/B test: "$15 + $5 extra" vs. "$20 - $5 discount".

You might collect some evidence that people like getting a deal more than
getting hit with an extra cost.

~~~
matthewd
to get a design for <$30, your not going to notice a huge difference in
acquisition for the $5

~~~
Uhhrrr
Probably, yes, but hard results from testing FTW.

------
hoop
Hitchhiker: Think about it. You walk into a design store, you see
designfor15bucks.com sittin' there, there's designfor14bucks.com right beside
it. Which one are you gonna pick, man?

Ted: I would go for the 14.

Hitchhiker: Bingo, man, bingo. designfor14bucks.com. And we guarantee just as
good a design as the designfor15bucks.com folk.

Ted: You guarantee it? That's - how do you do that?

Hitchhiker: If you're not happy with the first 14 bucks of design, we're gonna
send you the extra dollar of design free. You see? That's it. That's our
motto. That's where we're comin' from. That's from "A" to "B".

Ted: That's right. That's - that's good. That's good. Unless, of course,
somebody comes up with designfor13bucks.com. Then you're in trouble, huh?

~~~
user24
but on the web, there is no street on which to see sites next to each other.

I knew a jewellery company once which had two sites. One was all red and gold
and stars and flashing things, the other was all purple and white and curvy
things. The items on the purple posh looking one were 15% more expensive. Same
products on each - heck, it was the same _database, product description and
images_ on each site!

Point is, this is the internet, you can do that kind of thing.

~~~
Benjo
Actually I think that street would be Google search results.

~~~
user24
that's the obvious reply, but it fails for two reasons:

1) SERPs are not fixed; they vary from month to month, and even from day to
day as new sites and pages appear and are added to the mix. This is akin to
the houses on a street changing order frequently, and ruins the analogy

2) SERPs differ between terms - you and I might be adjacent for "cheap
widgets" but for "budget widgets" the SERP might look entirely different. This
is akin to shops having a million doors, each on different streets, and ruins
the analogy.

~~~
hoop
PPC advertising on said search pages fixes the analogy. As do link directories
and, erm, front pages of link sharing sites such as HN (if submitted within
the proper timeframe)

------
swombat
Assuming it takes you at least 1-2 hours per design (and even with mad
photoshop skillz it's unlikely it'd be much shorter than that), you're
probably better off getting an office job somewhere, or even maybe a burger-
flipping job. Given all the additional expenses of running your own business,
this is probably not a viable business model (i.e. you will lose money on the
whole).

The only way this would be justified is if you use this as a source of clients
to up-sell more expensive work to.

~~~
tlrobinson
I'd rather do something I enjoy for slightly less money than get an office job
or flip burgers.

~~~
anigbrowl
You must have very cheap rent.

If you don't ask for money for what you do, then you are saying that what you
do is worthless. You probably don't actually believe that, and the only reason
to sell your work for less than the most basic labor is because you don't know
how to get paid properly. But customers see your pricing and conclude that
designers do not need to be paid even the normal minimum for other kinds of
work.

If you keep working like this, you will find yourself unable to ever get a
design job that pays well. Everyone who calls you will do so because you are
cheap. When you go to visit clients who have money to spend, they will not
want to hire you. Not because their is anything wrong with your design; but
because they are not designers, and so they will try to estimate the quality
of your work by the visibility of your financial success. If they notice
nothing that suggests you can make money, then they will assume that you
can't, and they will assume that the reason you can't is because your designs
are no good, and hire someone else. Later, when you want to get married or
have a family or just enjoy a better standard of living, but you can not
afford to do so because you undervalued your work, you will realize that you
designed yourself into poverty. It's true that some very rich/successful
people dress or act like they don't care about money. This is because they
have so much money that they don't have to care about what clients think. They
have agents who take care of all that annoying business stuff for them. Agents
only work for people whose work can be sold for high prices, because agents
only get 15%, on average.

A lot of creative people fall into this trap, I have made this mistake on some
occasions. It is a bad pattern, for you and also for your colleagues in the
same profession. Also, it's insulting to people who work in offices or flip
burgers. Maybe they would like to work at something creative, but when you
price your work so low you are demonstrating that creativity is worthless, and
that skill and hard work do not deserve a reward. Here's my advice: it's OK to
do some work for free for your friends and family, but when you work for money
your minimum should be 5 x the minimum for a 'boring' job. Some people will
refuse to pay so much, and then you must refuse to work even if your bank
account and your stomach are empty. Many will agree. You should use your price
to drive bad clients away. Good clients will either pay or negotiate. If you
do not make them work in negotiation, they will understand this to mean that
you are not going to work on their commission, and hire someone else.

If you cannot make a living this way, then get a job flipping burgers. First
you will learn some humility, second you will get free food every day, third
you will have some more financial security and fourth you will be very tired
when you go home every day. Now, do a few hours of design work every week too.
Of course, it will be much more difficult now because you are exhausted by
working in a hot kitchen before you draw a single line. Now you will start to
understand the value of time, and charge accordingly.

~~~
dstorrs
> If you don't ask for money for what you do, then you are saying that what
> you do is worthless.

"Um, what?" \--Every open source developer, ever.

~~~
ehutch79
most open source software are tools, not products.

~~~
rmc
So what about the Open Source Software that are products?

------
revorad
Instead of penalising the customer($5) for not listing their design, offer it
as a discount for listing their site. So, base cost $20, but with listing only
$15!

------
jasonmcalacanis
This is Genius.

You should only do one a day, and if someone wants to jump the line they can
big higher than $15!!!

I'm going to put the Launch conference www.launch.is/conference and
ThisWeekIn.com up for $50 each right now. $100 is no risk... if you have one
good idea in each design it would be worth it.

i love this idea!

------
tlrobinson
Not a bad idea if you can make the numbers work.

One variation would be to charge $15 per iteration. The first one might take
you 2 hours, but each additional iteration might only take 15 minutes, in
which case it becomes more economical.

~~~
LiveTheDream
Then you're possibly incentivized to do subpar work the first time around to
ensure a second round. On the other hand, if you push that too far it will
make for a bad reputation. Also, if there is enough new work coming in then
it's probably better to spend the time with new clients (with the aim in mind
to up-sell later).

------
lhorie
Initial thoughts:

\- the linked images have blue borders around them, look ugly

\- you could put a couple of samples up if a design costs just $15 worth of
your time

\- I hope you don't live in North America or Europe, otherwise, you're
undercharging.

------
NxguiGui
Thats why i quit making colorful pictures for "blind" people with small
pockets long time ago. Time (effort spend) to return (money) equation is
terrible. Its shameful that todays perception on web design is PSD layered
file. Web design is a process of communication of an idea/marketing concept to
a consumer. Web design is UX thinking. Than: Web design is UI doing. Than: Web
design is a illustration.

I don't see how the Client will perceive this low price PSD oriented service
with less expectations. The price is so low that its not serious, it's a joke.

Advice:

Make some sassy layouts, put them online in portfolio section. Than put up
your price per hour. Give a client full service, feedback, comments on their
ideas, professional advice etc.

But: Value in web design is not in pictures. It is in successful
conceptualization of your professional view on clients problems.

Years ago i stop offering cool pictures, and start learning more about
technology in front-end (html.css.js), UX, marketing, communication with
customer and now i perceive the web design process as a whole of many valuable
parts.

If you are in desperate position, do some freelancing or get a routine job and
invest in your self in your spare time:))

------
Staydecent
I'm wondering, as I'm not making any money (devoting time to a startup idea)
right now, if anyone would be interested in a similar service for the markup?

I'm really quite good and would charge $15/page. I can offer impressive turn
around times and even CMS(WordPress) integration for an additional flat-
fee($250?).

~~~
corin_
Yes, definitely. If you offer it, I'll take you up on it once he's open for
design applications again.

~~~
Staydecent
Cool! I'll setup a page for the service now.

Edit: <http://staydecent.ca/markup>

~~~
jedbrown
Might want to check you spelling (intergration) and validate ("5 Errors, 1
warning(s)",
[http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://staydecent.ca/marku...](http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://staydecent.ca/markup))
before claiming standards compliance.

~~~
Staydecent
Thanks for spell checking! As for the errors. Oh well. The main site structure
is valid and works on the 3 major browsers I tested(Chrome,FF,IE8).

The first error is too beneficial to give up, and the rest are for a shitty
form code (but this keeps my hosting cost at ~0/month which allows this
stupidly cheap service).

But, you are right. And, I shall no longer advertise standards compliance. =D

------
wccrawford
I just started a new blog and wanted a nice design for it. $15 is definitely a
good price, if it's a decent design. (Note that I said 'decent' and not
'outstanding'. I know what design is really worth.)

But without some samples, it feels like I'm just throwing away $15.

~~~
calloc
For $15 you can test the waters. How much do you make in an hour? How long
will it take you to design your own web site? In other words, is it worth the
$15 gamble to see if someone can come up with something to blow you away?

~~~
wccrawford
No, I don't think it is. I could give random people $15 all year long and
still not end up with a decent site.

Now, someone who has a history of decent-looking sites is a good gamble.

And it is a gamble, since he says it's non-refundable and no changes can be
made.

~~~
jtheory
Agreed -- it's a better idea to wait until he has posted some example $15
designs.

------
acangiano
Somebody delivering the same service, but including HTML/CSS, could easily
charge $150 and have more customers than they could possibly handle.

~~~
prawn
Somebody could offer it sans HTML/CSS, charge $150 and still stay busy IMO. My
basic mate's rates fee for that sort of job is $1000-1500 for a PSD.

That said, $15-20 is comfortably in that "If it doesn't work out, who cares"
bracket. The problem will be that for many people, time is far more crucial
than the cost. If I need a turnaround of 3-4 days, and the queue is 7+ days,
it won't matter if it's $15 or 15 cents.

~~~
anon-e-moose
Really? Where do they get clients? I'll start tonight!

~~~
prawn
Have a good portfolio and gradually build up awareness. If you offer this
service, link to a portfolio in your profile.

Don't compete on the same turf as elance types. I've used PSD2XHTML type
services for $150-250 before and the main reasons I stopped was that the
product wasn't really done to our house style and they couldn't hit deadlines.
(Now I have staff that do these jobs for me.)

------
jeffclark
Just out of curiosity: why did you buy the designfor15bucks.com domain and
STILL setup a gmail account for contact?

Related: <http://www.google.com/a>

~~~
nuclear_eclipse
Because Google Apps isn't free and gmail is?

~~~
bry
There is a free version of Google Apps:
<http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/group/index.html>

~~~
crocowhile
There is. I used that for several years. However I don't anymore because if
you work alone or small groups I strongly suggest to use a regular
gmail/google account and forward your @domain.com email there instead of using
the gmail/app.

Otherwise you will be always be running an outdated version of all gmail
services and there is no real benefit really in having gmail handling your MX.

~~~
jonknee
That requires you to maintain a mail server of your own and everything that
comes with that. I prefer to have pagers go off at Google's HQ instead of mine
when something happens.

What features are you using in Gmail that I'm not getting in Google Apps? I
have priority inbox and all the latest Labs experiments. I haven't heard of
anything I'm missing.

~~~
crocowhile
As I said, I closed down my google apps account a few months ago because
things were missing or they arrived later compared to the regular gmail, so I
don't know what you may be missing right now.

Also, if you have an android phone you cannot buy apps if you sign in only
with your apps account, you must use a regular account. That is a PITA,
believe me.

~~~
balac
You don't have to use your apps account only, you can still use your regular
one for buying Android apps etc.

~~~
crocowhile
Here is the scenario: you have google apps account that you use for all your
stuff and you sync it with your android device to access email, contacts and
such. This is account A. Then you realize the market won't work, so you sync
the regular google account, account B.

Now, you have the hassle of having to deal with multiple account on your
phone, but is not too bad. It comes bad when you discover that if reset your
phone and sign in only with account A or only with account B or even in the
wrong order (B, A), all the apps you bought are simply gone.

Yes, the market sucks that much.

------
snorkel
I bounced out immediately due to lack of Latest Design samples. I get the
concept, like it, but gotta have examples.

~~~
jlees
I believe that's the reason this entire site exists. (Portfolio building).

~~~
snorkel
It's a visual product so you got to prime the pump with visual samples to
entice the first customer.

~~~
treeface
Unless he's selling his skills for $15...which basically primes the pump
itself. According to his website, he's already got more customers than he can
handle for a week. Come back in a week and he'll probably have 5-10 items in
that portfolio.

------
DanielStraight
You know... most of the comments in response have been negative. Some have
said the $5 charge for keeping the design off the portfolio is phrased wrong.
Some have said the price is too low. Some have criticized the site design, but
you know what? In about an hour, this guy got more customers than he could
even deal with.

He now has a collection of email addresses he can send an announcement to when
he launches a "real" web design company. He has a bunch of examples he can
show of real customers using his designs. He has the experience of actually
having someone pay him for his work. Heck, he even got over 200 HN karma out
of the deal.

How can this be a bad thing?

------
bee
I need a logo for my website, do you also make logos for $15?

~~~
malte
You can get a 'horrible' logo for five bucks: <http://www.horriblelogos.com>

~~~
venturebros
those logos are better than what I can do.

Perhaps I should start a site called really horrible logos. I will guarantee
all logos will look like a 2 year old on something did them.

------
Cushman
Nice! Do you want to tell us something about your background? I'm thinking a
lot of people will see this as absurd, but if you're not spending too long on
each individual design, $10-15 and hour is great money for a student or
hobbyist, especially since you're developing a marketable skill at the same
time.

Also, the #1 recommendation here is gonna be to put something up under "latest
designs", even if you haven't had any clients yet. The first customer is the
hardest, and you can help that along by putting a few coins in the proverbial
hat yourself. (Although I realize the site itself is an example of your design
:)

------
coffeeaddicted
As psd file - so I would have to spend another few hundred $ to get a legal
Photoshop to watch it?

~~~
loboman
Gimp will work

~~~
coffeeaddicted
Sometimes. I actually posted it because I had exactly that problem in the past
with an artist delivering me .psd's while I'm using The Gimp for everything.

------
oogali
Uhm, how about you team up with one of the many PSD-to-HTML services and do it
soup-to-nuts, or at least get referral compensation from said services?

------
seanMeverett
Great concept, love the branding, and love the marketing built into the
concept. Not a lot of fluff on the page, just the necessities. And once you
get busier and have a portfolio, you can start charging more, more, and more
until you're getting a good return on your time.

Helluva business model, love the thought that went into it. If there's anyway
I can help, let me know. Tweeting commencing right....meow!

------
RyanMcGreal
Is the "Hire my services now" button supposed to have a 2px blue border around
it?

------
mikegreenberg
I think you guys are looking at this all wrong. This isn't $15 for a complete
and polished design. This is $15 for Marco's inspiration and thoughts being
invested into my product! $15 is nothing to lose out on if it falls on its
face, but imagine the benefit you could be missing had you not tried?

------
ladon86
It is crazy. I really think you should charge more.

------
Maro
Right now it says "Latest designs: COMING SOON". Put up a template or
something!

Also, charge $30.

If the sample designs are actually somewhat good, $30 is worth the gamble,
maybe $40-50. I'd probably pay $30. But I'd need to see at least 2-3
references/samples/templates.

~~~
Skywing
The thing is, the more he begins to charge then the less and less he'll be
able to say "first design is final, if you don't like it then buy a second
one." At this point in time, anyone buying from him is just throwing away $15
since he has no examples of previous work.

~~~
mechanical_fish
I hope this guy thought ahead and registered designfor30bucks.com and
designfor60bucks.com.

------
lsc
Relevant to my interests. I'll probably be giving it a go shortly. My buddy
(who has taste) suggests toning down the front page, though.

While others say 'raise your prices' my suggestion is to keep them low, at
least until you have more work than you want to handle. at $15, I might as
well give you a shot. at $150? eh, I'm much less likely to blow that on
something I have no idea if I will like or not.

Oh, also, if I like the design, it'd be pretty cool to slip you another $100
or something and get the html/css, I mean, if it's possible to get that sort
of thing at that price.

------
indiejade
A couple weeks ago I built <http://www.hackeress.com> with the crowdspring /
99Designs clientèle in mind (who seems to be your audience).

You could expand your site and add a section for designers who specialize in
the code-writing aspect of design. Just a thought.

EDIT: Fixed. I'm still working on the site's content; got busy over the
holiday. But the design of the site is done, as are the custom 404 error
pages. :)

~~~
Huppie
Since you're probably using that website to get clients, you might want to
verify that all the pages work. (The link you used works, clicking on any of
the links gives me a 404.)

------
tlrobinson
I just came across this site, which lets people sell their services for $5:
<http://www.fiverr.com/>

~~~
marcc
I had never seen fiverr.com before. Interesting. I just tried them out, paid
someone $5 to take a look at one of my sites and send me some feedback. I was
honestly impressed with the comments.

------
byoung2
Where are you located? $15 doesn't sound like a lot of money for what could
take about an hour of work (simple 1 page design). Unless you live in a
country where money goes farther, or you can do designs much faster than 1
hour? Will this be profitable?

EDIT: I see that you are in Brazil, and a quick Googling shows that web
designers make $4-$8

------
findm
If you're doing the designs yourself you're doing yourself a great disservice
by charging so little.

Often times most people assume they have an endless well of creativity in them
but in actually its a feast and famine scenario. Assuming you want to do this
full-time you will burn out eventually.

~~~
Luyt
But he can stop at any time. He can even send back the money for unfinished
jobs.

------
winternett
A PSD file does not a web design make.

~~~
blhack
$15 does not a web design make either. This is why it is so cheap.

------
cloudhead
Indeed, a crazy idea. Considering any decent design would take at least 3
hours of work, you'd be making $5/hour.

To make it worthwhile for you, you'd have to spend at most 1h per design, in
which case it wouldn't be worth the $15 for the client, or a spot on your
portfolio.

------
frazerb
I like. I'm sure you are at least three times as good as this alternative, but
I have enjoyed using a few different (similar) $5 services from fiverr:
<http://www.fiverr.com/>

------
Luyt
I wish I could do this for application prototypes. But from experience I know
that prototypes can take much more time than $15 justifies. Or maybe I could
just accept the ideas which interest me. Hmmmm....

------
yosho
Just a thought, you can consider teaching design which allows you to meet
customers and give back to the community. <http://skyara.com> shameless self
plug :)

------
Malcx
I know you're not taking any more design requests at the moment - but could
you put a reminder form on your site that emails when you are? By Monday I'll
have forgotton all about you.

------
alinajaf
I don't understand why so many replies assume that this was intended to be
long-term, sustainable business model. It's a brilliant marketing exercise,
nothing more, nothing less.

~~~
nhangen
So true. Look at the comments here...has HN in a frenzy. I hate it, but it's
brilliant. Seems like something Tim Ferriss would do.

------
run4yourlives
He doesn't say anything about the design being unique. Odds are he'll make 50
templates at a loss and just reuse them.

Eventually, he turns a profit with an automated muse and everyone is happy.

------
mgkimsal
Closed already - dang it - was going to send in a request :(

------
grandalf
This looks great. I'd like to submit a few designs, so please re-accept
submissions. As long as they're done within a week or two that's fine.

------
jorisvoorn
Well, as you said, you had "this crazy idea" sounds crazy indeed!

Hope to see some designs in the lastest section ;)

------
spoiledtechie
Love the Idea. I know for my few websites I have, I would be willing to spend
the $15.00...

------
dpcan
Everyone watch as this fellow goes from zero to burn-out faster than any web
designer ever.

------
zimro
Good job, I think that it is a good way to earn some bucks while gathering
experience.

------
DistortedRhymes
You could probably charge double, triple or quadruple and still get customers.

------
NHQ
HN, I will make your psd into html/css and even javascript for $200.

------
forcer
Just ordered design and looking forward for the outcome in 2 days :)

------
rkalla
Great idea, good marketing. Hope this does well for you.

------
kunley
After 18 hours, still no example designs.

------
fido
viral/discount/link juice - Offer a $5 discount for anyone who tweets/blogs
your site

------
tropin
How do you convert the PSD files into HTML & CSS? Does Photoshop have an
option for it or what?

~~~
alinajaf
You learn HTML/CSS, fire up your favourite editor and start slicing.

------
wmeredith
I'd really like to see the quality of these designs. I sure they'll reflect
the price.

------
luckydip
he's loaded some designs

------
marknutter
HN, yesterday I had this crazy idea: People pay me $100 and I build them a
car.

