
Ask HN: Non tech co founder - ryanlm
We haven&#x27;t started developing the product yet. I&#x27;ve tried to ask him what his role will be and he has become hostile at the question.<p>He hasn&#x27;t defined his role, but has said he is the &quot;Founder&quot;, and has said that he should haven&#x27;t to argue with partners to get his point across.<p>Is asking what his role will be a valid question? He answered that question with a question:<p>&quot;what do you think it will be? I&#x27;m the founder haha my role is everything&quot;...<p>He also has never written a line of code, and has said he doesn&#x27;t have time, but has said that he knows how to manage developers.<p>He wants to outsource all development to India.<p>He claims the product is &quot;already designed&quot;, just step 2 is developing it.<p>He keeps talking about building a unified platform with API&#x27;s.<p>I&#x27;m tempted to ask him to define an API, but wouldn&#x27;t want to upset him.<p>I&#x27;ve also told him that without working fulltime, the thing would take at least 9 months to develop. He counters, saying that if we can increase head count, we cut the time in half.<p>&quot;theoretically, if there are 2 of you, we can cut the time in half&quot;.<p>After that, I pointed him to read the book &quot;Mythical man month&quot;.
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dc17
Go away from this "co-founder"!

1) If you are tech co-founder, then he has to be a marketing & sales co-
founder. You no need second tech founder in most cases.

2) The roles of each founders in a startup have to be defined before you've
started.

3) "He wants to outsource all development to India" \- that's a VERY BAD idea.

Good Luck!

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Mz
He is not a founder. He is an egomaniac with delusions of grandeur. He thinks
he "shouldn't have to argue" because he is a founder? Utter bullshit. He has
to be willing and able to communicate with his cofounder and that involves
hashing things out.

I hate arguing online because it is almost always a form of fighting with
people over emotional bullshit. But I have zero problem with the other
definition of arguing: debating ideas to get at the truth.

You can't build a solid company if you cannot do that.

Don't start a company with someone whose precious feelings come ahead of clear
communication. That's insanity.

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UK-AL
I would be extremely sceptical about this startup.

"He also has never written a line of code, and has said he doesn't have time,
but has said that he knows how to manage developers.

He wants to outsource all development to India.

He claims the product is "already designed", just step 2 is developing it."

This is to me highlights the fact he doesn't really understand how software
products are developed.

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ryanlm
Yes. And he claims he is the "founder", and he honestly still hasn't been able
to tell me what it is he will be doing while I'll be working my ass off
writing code for this thing.

Keep in mind this isn't yet a real company. Just a google drive with
documents.

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ingenieros
Did he come up with the idea or initial funding? Why is he even on your team
to begin with?

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ryanlm
He came up with the idea. Has no funding. He is a long time high school and
college friend and the only person I know that wants to pursue
entrepreneurship.

~~~
yishanl
Eek, went through the same thing except we did it for a whole year. Skillset
or not, sharing core values/beliefs is most important. Because when shit goes
south, if you have someone who is just as committed as you are (for the right
reasons), there is nothing you can't overcome when the core values align.

Although this is _really_ hard because people show their truest faces when
shit goes south. So you won't know for sure unless this is someone who you've
spent and enjoyed spending lots of time with for a while.

After spending time thinking critically about the past year, here are some
rough open-ended questions I've come up with that I think would shed light
into one's core values.

How do you approach solving a problem (any size, scope)? What locus of control
do you believe in? Is there value in rolling up your sleeves?

~~~
ryanlm
If I ask him those questions, and he becomes offended at the fact, I think
that will be a red flag. He seems to think that anything he says can't be
questioned...going back to earlier, how he says he doesn't want to argue to
get his point across when I asked him about what his role would be.

He said the way I asked it made him offended.

My view is that I touched on one of his weaknesses and it made him insecure
about his position in the business.

~~~
yishanl
I feel for you.

Don't do it.

Money brings out the worst in people.

Arguing is healthy. Just depends on how it comes & what it's over. Obviously,
if your relationship deteriorates to the point that you are arguing for little
value then that's bad - I do think arguing early is better than arguing late.
It'll be insightful for you and him, to be honest. You'll learn a little more
about yourself and a lot more about him in how the argument progresses and
more importantly, how it ends.

All non-tech founders are insecure about their position in the business. I
think any competent non-tech founder _should_ be insecure about their position
imo, if there is a component of technology to the business.

I was too, so I just kept working and supporting in as many ways as I could
think of.

Thankfully, our product was online-to-offline, so there was plenty of work to
be done.

But don't do it.

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atmosx
I used to organize parties with one of my best friends and had yelled at one
another numerous times... Some times I had to back down, others he had to back
down, but we respected each other immensely and still do.

If you are afraid to speak your mind, run. It's going to get worse.

~~~
ryanlm
Not afraid, I told him I'm sorry if I'm rude and that I'm not trying to
undermine him, I just want to get up to speed on his thoughts and goals.

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lastofus
His answer should have been "sales, marketing, and business dev", which is the
other half of the equation once you have developed a working product.

It sounds like he wants to get others to do all the work and reap all the
benefits because he is the "idea guy".

I would move on.

~~~
ryanlm
He wants to get interns to do business dev. He actually said that to me.

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smt88
Don't bother answering all these questions. Get rid of this guy. He's toxic
and has no idea what he's doing.

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Zelmor
Yeeeaah, this sounds like a bad idea, OP. Ditch and get someone who is more
than an 'idea guy'. Non-technical project founders are way too common in indie
game development. No art skills, no programming skills, just ideas and a
'management mindset'.

Also, you should ask him to define API, then let him go for being a bad match
for the project due to lack of technical skills. Waste no time on such people.

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MalcolmDiggs
It really depends on the kind of product you're building.

In certain situations, non-technical co-founders will have more work on their
plate than the engineers. In other situations, they'll have very little to do.

It sounds like you're building the kind of product where engineering is most
of the work. But it's still worth asking yourself: is engineering going to end
up giving you a real competitive edge in your market? Or is it the marketing,
operations, sales, or other back-of-house departments that will drive your
business? If the former, maybe you don't need the founder. If the latter, than
his might be the most important role.

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panorama
> "theoretically, if there are 2 of you, we can cut the time in half".

Is antithetical to him claiming that "he knows how to manage developers." Nine
women can't make a baby in 1 month.

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dchun
Four words: "Show me the money"

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JoeAltmaier
Run!

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ryanlm
Hey thanks. This sounds like the first reaction that I had. Can you elaborate
on experiences that are similar to mine?

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JoeAltmaier
Like a marriage, you should be in sync with your founder/partner. Anger,
evasiveness, defensiveness when planning for the future are all red flags.

In fact I've usually had trouble with founders that were so slick and evasive
I didn't notice they were not on the same page until too late. Later I learned
they were listening at doors, making comments to team members to divide us,
and even in one case following me to a dinner with an old friend (to make sure
I wasn't being recruited).

So an obvious non-fit like describe by the OP is maybe an easier situation.

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codegeek
RUN ryanlm RUN. Enough said.

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ryanlm
He also thinks it's his job to pick the tech platform. He literally thinks he
is capable of doing it.

He likes to use buzz words a lot. I think he should be a tech
recruiter/salesman

