
Facebook's new policy bans blackface and some Jewish stereotypes - the-dude
https://mashable.com/article/facebook-bans-blackface-jewish-stereotypes/
======
realusername
> Dutch outlet NU.nl reported that a Facebook spokesperson clarified to them
> that the ban extends to Zwarte Piet, also known as Black Peter, a folk
> character that accompanies St. Nicholas on Christmas.

And here is exactly why it's a stupid idea, different countries have different
culture and history.

We also celebrate the exact same event in my place and it's just a part of
kindergarten, nothing related about US culture. People needs to be less
stubborn and understand that not everywhere is the same as the place they grew
up.

Edit: Although I've just learned that the Dutch & German versions look indeed
different compared to my place. The massive black-beard ones we have in my
place would still be okay for Facebook I believe, but it's the same concept
really.

~~~
tibbydudeza
Holland was a colonial power - are you actually claiming Black Peter is all
Dutch culture and has absolutely nothing to do with black servitude ???.

~~~
enriquto
I guess they are claiming that Black Peter has nothing to do with minstrel
shows, that are the reason why blackface is problematic in the USA (and it
shouldn't really be anywhere else, in my opinion).

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kstenerud
This is unfortunately going to end badly. We're still in a fairly decent
position on the diminishing returns curve for banning offensive content, but
it's already a far cry from what people were talking about censoring even a
year ago.

The logical extreme for this sort of thing would be the censoring of anything
that isn't as bland and boring as a history textbook (for exactly the same
reasons). I expect there will be stronger and stronger pushback before it goes
this far into the ridiculous, but this will be the general direction that
every offence-taking group pushes things in.

The left can't take a joke. The right can't take criticism of orthodoxy.

~~~
dcow
2+2=5

~~~
raxxorrax
There is a saying in my country that you sometimes need to let 5 be even. But
it mainly a suggestion for a laissez faire approach.

------
wwwwwwwww
I will probably get more downvoted than answers, but I'll try anyway: could
anybody explain why "blackface" is seen as "racist"?

Especially in the context of an event where everybody is wearing a costume.

I lived (among some other continents) in Africa for some years, and you have
tribes where people use a "whiteface" in some celebrations. Are we supposed to
get upset about their "racism" as well?

Also, how will this in any way help socially disadvantages people, regardless
their skin tone, anywhere in the world?

To me, this seems like just another made-up topic, so that people can yell and
hate each other.

~~~
ephextom
The historical links to minstrel shows are valid grounds for the
offensiveness.

But sometimes you have to wonder about the validity of the outrage when a case
has no links to this whatsoever, and where it is done out of pure admiration
and celebration of a person of color.

A few years ago in Australia, a young kid and his mother were nationally
shamed when the kid went to a school dress-up day as his favourite footballer,
who is a dark-skinned man of Fijian descent [1].

He wore dark skin paint and a dreadlock wig, obviously because he idolises
this footballer and wanted to look as much like him as possible.

The footballer then had to comment on the matter, and admitted that he himself
had endorsed people dressing up this way in the past, and that even he had to
be educated that it was not a cool thing to do.

[1] [https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/its-a-shame-
nic-...](https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/its-a-shame-nic-naitanui-
responds-to-blackface-outrage-20160826-gr1jlf.html)

------
turboturbo
As a Belgian born in the late ’80s, this is both very understandable and
slightly bewildering.

I can perfectly understand Facebook’s decision in the context of blackface
being racist.

On the other hand, I have fond memories of watching a show for kids (on the
public TV station) called “Dag Sinterklaasje”, which featured “Zwarte Piet”
(Black Pete) in each of its episodes. This show invariably had a warm,
charming and cosy atmosphere.

I completely agree with the decision, it’s just bewildering to realise that
progress in social justice (if only symbolic progress) can catch you off-guard
and forces you to reconsider parts of your youth.

~~~
raxxorrax
If it doesn't look like progress, it probably isn't. Since the demographic
change of the net, content is actually regressing back to a mean. There are
some people that see racism everywhere because they have been told that they
are victims. This is no road to anything that can be called progress.

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the-dude
With all the fuzz about FB, I find it remarkable when I engage with millenials
: FB is irrelevant to them.

So, what gives?

~~~
MattGaiser
Instagram isn’t though.

~~~
searchableguy
What will make people switch anyway?

They don't care much about security (evident by the recent twitter hack). They
don't care much about privacy. They don't care much about functionality.

Increasingly, I don't think people even care about the content or
relationship/social aspect of the social media. My dad has like maximum number
of friends on Facebook and I really doubt he actually engages with them. His
feed is full of bullshit that he sometimes tell me about and is even self
aware of a lot.

 _Why do you use facebook despite that?_

He doesn't have an answer. I fear he is just addicted to scrolling when he has
nothing to do.

He is also using Facebook and whatsapp because of peer pressure.

A weird phenomenon in india is how easily bullshit spreads on whatsapp. The
reason is most people forward without even consuming the content. It's almost
like they are getting rewarded for a completely different thing than the
intended or well communicative purpose of the medium.

~~~
MattGaiser
> It's almost like they are getting rewarded for a completely different thing
> than the intended or well communicative purpose of the medium.

I suspect they find the engagement sufficient. They forward and someone
comments. The dinging of the phone itself is exciting.

------
sneeuwpopsneeuw
In the Netherlands there have been big discussions and protests for and
against one of our national holidays called "sinterklaas" (a second Christmas)
Where there is a figure called "Zwarte piet" a blackface character that will
bring the kids candy's, "pepernoten" and chocolate when they where nice that
year.

When the news broke out that FB would start removing these kind of images from
there platform both sides of the discussion mostly reacted here in the
Netherlands that removing it completely is not the way to go. So i'm wondering
how this news is received everywhere else in the world? Here is was the
headline of most newspapers and our national television news yesterday.

~~~
raxxorrax
In Germany we often paint someone black for the christmas story (Holy Three
Kings). I think that will also be cancelled because of the failed American
educational system.

Of course if you happen to be black, your role is determined if the story gets
performed. Such is the weight of oppression...

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bencollier49
This is interesting. It'll ban some forms of Morris Dancing.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_Morris](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_Morris)

[https://www.facebook.com/silurianbordermorrismen/](https://www.facebook.com/silurianbordermorrismen/)

~~~
bencollier49
And an example of how far back this goes (from the Wiki page decribing the
origins of the custom):

"An event which took place in the autumn of 1450 illustrates well the way in
which the often separate activities of poaching and protest could on occasion
conflate. On October 1450 a large group of men entered the duke of
Buckingham's park at Penshurst in Kent and carried off eighty-two deer.
Thirty-two men, nineteen of them yeomen, were named in subsequent indictment
which made clear that a good number had escaped by its claim that there had
been a total of a hundred present (not a figure to be taken too literally).
These armed men had charcoaled faces, wore long false beards and withheld
their names, calling themselves servants of the Queen of the Fairies."

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ed_balls
Is it a global policy? Are they gonna ban pictures and videos of kids signing
Christmas carols in my country? Or saying the name of the 3rd biggest river in
Africa (in my language)

[https://static.deon.pl/storage/image/core_files/2012/1/5/5af...](https://static.deon.pl/storage/image/core_files/2012/1/5/5afeebc817d734db5b3728f52770942b/jpg/deon/articles-
thumb-xlarge-breakpoint-default/kolednicy-misyjni-i-dobra-nowina.jpg)

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homami
It seems to me that Facebook instead of battling racism and other problems in
the information bubbles that it has created, is doing some kind of straw man.

"Look here we are banning black face!" Don't get me wrong, symbols matter. But
this is not even remotely the most consequential thing that Facebook can do to
fight disinformation and racism.

They should make a fix for their echo chambers.

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tibbydudeza
More non nonsensical half baked measures from the Zuck.

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burfog
Too conveniently, it bans a photo of Virginia governor Ralph Northam. It
protects him.

The infamous photo shows him in blackface, with his then-girlfriend beside him
in full KKK gear. (and uh, did they just have KKK gear lying around the
house???)

It doesn't get covered much in the news. He is being protected because of his
party affiliation as a democrat. He is still in office to this day. Imagine if
such a photo had been discovered with a republican. It would be headline news
for months.

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tasogare
> The social network will also prohibit stereotypes about Jewish people
> running the world or “controlling major institutions such as media networks,
> the economy or the government.”

Sure, the most well known social media founded by a Jewish person censuring
conspiracy theories about Jewish controlling the media will absolutely not
fuel the said theories... /s

~~~
MattGaiser
Another wave of unpleasantness heading over to Voat. At a certain point you
just write people off.

