

Have you spoken with your lonely friend today? - classicsnoot

It seems like a day does not go by that i do not hear about some other wandering soul who decides to leave this crazy party on earth due to depression. It is a long battle, and one i am currently fighting, but in my experience our Waterloo Moments can often be avoided by the timely appearance of a willing listener and&#x2F;or friend.<p>Suicide is a personal choice, and one for which others should not feel responsible, though who does not feel a twinge of missed opportunity when someone dear leaves us because of the place they are trapped in their minds? I know i am a stranger, but if you need to talk to someone, or just sit silently on the phone, or anything... I am here friend.<p>I leave you with a book recommendation, An Unquiet Mind by Kay Redfield Jamison, and a quote from Hugo Wolf:<p>&quot;To be sure, I appear at times merry and in good heart, talk, too, before others quite reasonably, and it looks as if I felt, too, God knows how well within my skin. Yet the soul maintains its deathly sleep and the heart bleeds from a thousand wounds.&quot;
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jayhuang
`Suicide is a personal choice`

I hear this all the time, and I could not disagree more. As someone who has
been "there" more than once, suicide is not a personal choice.

And I'd also like to extend the same offer. I've been blessed to have someone
else on HN do this for me and contribute to my recovery. If there's someone
you need to lend an ear and listen, or speak with you, I'm here.

~~~
classicsnoot
I stated that because it is, regardless of its net effect. I do not condone
it, nor is it an excuse to do nothing. But the battle against suicide must be
fought, ultimately, in the hearts and minds of those who are likely to succumb
to it. I did not mean to be callous or ignorant.

------
japhyr
> Suicide is a personal choice

This is a naive understanding of suicide. It is the choice of someone who
thinks there is no other reasonable alternative. People who are suicidal need
help identifying other strategies for dealing with their depression, and they
need help choosing those other strategies.

There are many people who have contemplated or attempted suicide at some
point, and then got the help they needed. Sometimes they seek this help out on
their own; sometimes others push them to get help. Many of these people then
go on to live entirely productive and satisfying lives.

If you know someone who is suicidal, by all means talk to someone who knows
how to handle the situation. Don't be afraid to ask someone if they are
contemplating suicide; you won't be "planting" the idea for anyone.

~~~
classicsnoot
As stated above, i meant no offense. I do believe, that like drug addiction,
one can have support and knowledge and experience, but the battle is won or
lost in the mind of the actor.

The real issue here is my own struggle between the ideals of personal freedom
and my heart breaking over the brothers and sisters i lose every day. I
reserve the right to check out whenever i want, but it must be on my terms and
in my control. I personally believe that being an untreated manic/depressive
is tantamount to lack of control. Ditto for young people who are trapped by a
fabricated environment. If a cancer victim wants to top, who am i to say no? I
realize these are extreme thoughts, and i am sorry if my phrasing is crass.

~~~
Mz
I attempted suicide at age 17 and although I am not prone to depression, I
live with a lot of stress and a serious medical condition. Those two facts
often leave me suicidal in spite of not being prone to depression.

Encouraging people to "talk to their lonely friend" is encouraging them to act
out of pity. That is not the antidote. Think of the phrase "pity fuck" or even
"charity case." The antidote is to help people become valued members of
society and help them learn to get their emotional and other needs met. This
is best done from a position of strength, not a plea for "please pay attention
to me so I don't kill myself" or similar.

I have value. I know things of value. One of the reasons I struggle with being
suicidal is that I have been marginalized and cannot get most people to take
me seriously. I am working on that -- on my credibility and on how to get
people to understand that, no, I am not a charity case (in spite of being
homeless and deeply in debt). I am someone who has something of value to
offer.

I wrote some piece of crap yesterday and then redacted it in part because I
felt it came across beggarly, which is not my intent. I have something of
value to say. But I am struggling with the how to effectively communicate it.
I need help with how bridge the communication gap. I don't need pity. I have
gotten charity. Charity helps you survive from one day to the next. It does
not help you become established as a professional. It does not improve your
reputation and improve your positioning so you can better take care of
yourself.

I tend to care deeply about everyone I meet (an Achilles heel, which annoys me
to no end). I don't do "pity fuck" emotional stuff. People who realize I am
unusually accepting and nonjudgmental often are drawn to me because they think
I will "love" them when they feel unlovable. But they are essentially asking
me to love them _because_ they are unlovable. That is a doomed proposition.
People who will love you _because_ you are broken are sick. They need to be
needed. Those so-called friendships don't last. When you stop being pathetic,
they end because you no longer need a crutch and the other person can't relate
to you as a better person than the hurt little puppy who followed them home.

I hope that makes some sense. We do this by building a better world, where we
generally treat people better. We don't do it by promoting pity. We do it by
promoting compassion, patience and tolerance for everyone, in all walks of
life.

Though I have been crapped on enough I am currently running rather short on
those things myself at the moment. So perhaps my theory is wrong. Perhaps it
really is a dog eat dog world and perhaps that is as good as it can get.

Peace. And ((HUGS)) if you want them.

~~~
classicsnoot
Holy shit; so many great points. First off, you are quite adept at explaining
yourself, via text anyways, so your effort is paying off.

I agree completely in regards to Pity. It is worse than hatred in my opinion.
More insidious, crippling, and degrading, but that is my opinion.

My message was not out of pity, nor does it encourage it. It was a little
reminder to make an extra effort to talk to people you know want to be talked
to but are for whatever reason having a hard time expressing that desire.
There have been so many posts about the first part of deepening our social
awareness of the lost and lonely. I want to push further.

So i will do this from time to time. Take it as pity, call me weak, i care
not. I am here because someone took the time to talk when i was not able to
but desperately in need of it.

I do not hug, but i will firmly place my hand on your shoulder and look deeply
into your eyes.

~~~
Mz
My concern is that other people will interpret it as encouraging them to take
pity on others. A little reframing would likely serve your goal a bit better.

But we all do what makes sense to us. And I am certainly not the boss of you,
just hoping to help you up your game, if I can.

Take care.

------
shock
Human connections are complex and it seems we are losing the skills necessary
to interact with one another in other situations than a specific set. Maybe
it's also related to aging but I get the feeling that calling someone to grab
some beers it's a lot less common now than interacting via facebook.

The book "Feeling Good"[0] by Dr. David Burns might help you with your
depression.

[0] [http://www.amazon.com/Feeling-Good-The-Mood-
Therapy/dp/03808...](http://www.amazon.com/Feeling-Good-The-Mood-
Therapy/dp/0380810336)

~~~
classicsnoot
In this regard, i feel we must be the change we want to see.

------
Mz
(((hugs)))

This isn't really the way to do it. I wish it were, but it's not.

~~~
classicsnoot
Then how? and where? this community is in no way the only one to suffer from
self harm, but i view Devs, Admins, and Hackers like Tolkien's Noldor: super
powerful, long lasting, but relatively thin on the ground and susceptible to
Morgoth's machinations... yeah, the metaphor kind of broke down...

------
classicsnoot
...i will not take this silence as reenforcement of my depression...

