
Chevrolet Bolt EV Is the 2017 Motor Trend Car of the Year - Shivetya
http://www.motortrend.com/news/chevrolet-bolt-ev-2017-car-of-the-year/
======
avar
The article only briefly touches on this, but LG Korea is a huge part of this.
They make the motor, battery & drivetrain, basically everything that makes
this car an electric car. Chevrolet is just manufacturing the parts that would
be mostly identical to any of their other cars.

Rather than Tesla being worried about Chevrolet, I think they'd be more
worried about the likes of LG & Samsung in the longer term.

~~~
Cyph0n
Isn't Tesla's battery tech developed by Panasonic? And I believe that some of
their initial Autopilot tech was sourced from Mercedes. It's very difficult to
find an auto manufacturer that can build a car from the ground up, primarily
because the economics aren't scalable.

~~~
raphaelj
I think Tesla was relying on MobileEye for Autopilot. Now they are using
NVidia chips instead.

~~~
sammydavis
And they always used their own software, it wasn't like a mobile eye product
they licensed.

------
brightball
I still don't understand why anyone would buy a Bolt (or a Tesla) over a Volt.

Since I heard about the Volt initially back in 2006, it was the most logical
and practical approach to powering a vehicle that I'd ever heard. Eliminate
gas usage on 95% of your driving, but have gas available for long range and
fast refueling against the entire infrastructure of the US.

Pure EV's are nothing more than "around town" cars in a lot of the country,
which I'm sure is great if you can afford it or fun for early adopters but
otherwise just an impractical luxury.

That first 40 miles approach turned the MPG formula on it's head by making
clear that miles-per-day is the real metric that people need to worry about.

Going forward, the approach of the Volt could easily be modified to replace
the gas generator and tank with fuel cells, bio-diesel, ethanol or any other
power source that comes along.

The perk of the approach is that you have 2 options and you aren't purely SOL
after a long power outage from a hurricane or other unexpected event. That
happens with an EV and you don't have another way to charge it via wind/solar
you're left with a very expensive brick.

~~~
mikeash
I can't speak for the Bolt, but I bought a Tesla over a Volt for several
reasons. For one, it's a much more practical car. The Volt has only four
seats. The latest generation has a fifth sort-of seat you can squeeze someone
into if you really need it. My Tesla seats five adults and two children. It
also has about three times the cargo space in a five-seat configuration.

Long range travel is not an issue. Visit
[https://supercharge.info](https://supercharge.info) and see just where you
can reach on Tesla's network alone. OK, places like North Dakota and Arkansas
won't work too well, but certainly the places I'd like to visit are covered. I
find myself planning a lot more road trips with the Tesla than with previous
cars. I didn't like burning all that gas before, but now it's just fun. In the
past year, I've driven from my home near DC to south Florida, to Ohio, to
Montreal, and I'm planning a trip to Wisconsin next month.

As far as long power outages go, I'm _less_ worried with the Tesla than with
previous cars. Every morning, the car has 237 miles of range left. With my gas
cars, that figure fluctuated anywhere from 500 miles to 40 miles. Gas pumps
require electricity to work, so you have to wait for power to come back (or go
somewhere that has it) either way. But I know that I'll always have the
canonical "half a tank of gas" that they say you should ensure you have for
emergency.

EVs are highly practical these days. What they aren't (yet) is both practical
and affordable. The Bolt is helping to change that, although the lack of fast
charging infrastructure means it doesn't quite get there.

I totally understand why people would want to stick with gas cars or hybrids,
whether it's because you live in or visit places like North Dakota, or can't
stand the extra charging time needed for long trips, or can't charge at home,
or whatever. But I hope this helps you understand the other side.

~~~
rwmurrayVT
That map was a really excellent link. I noticed there was one a few minutes
away from my office. I just went and checked it out. Very cool! That explains
why I seem to notice Tesla vehicles multiple times a day.

~~~
mikeash
Funny! And yeah, it's a great way to keep track of Tesla's buildout,
especially for people who can't see the map in one of their cars. And even if
you can, they show (many, but not all) planned sites and sites under
construction, whereas Tesla's official stuff only shows you ones that are
operating.

For people interested in EVs in general, you can also check out PlugShare to
see nearly all public chargers:

[https://www.plugshare.com](https://www.plugshare.com)

Many of those are slow chargers not suitable for long-distance travel, but you
can filter the map depending on what you're interested in seeing.

------
vinay427
I'd like to take a moment to point out, as was done in the article, that
receiving this award is further validation that electric cars are becoming
mainstream. We can compare it to an upcoming competitor (the Model 3) but at
the end of the day, they're vying for positions on the same team. That being
said, a lot of this felt like an advertisement as another poster mentioned.

One thing I would like to see is better charger standardisation now that Tesla
has its own apparebtly faster but non-standard alternative.

~~~
alex_duf
Yes, the EV industry needs to come up with a standard as quickly as possible
now that it's pretty sure EV are here for a while.

~~~
projektfu
There are standards and, like networking standards, they improve over time.
Tesla has a nonstandard approach mostly because they are offering free
electricity. There's no real reason why an L3 charging station couldn't offer
both connections if Tesla would permit it.

------
astalwick
This is a big deal.

Car of the year, when you're talking about normal internal combustion cars,
doesn't really matter that much. When you start talking about new (and, for
$30000, scary) tech like electrics and hybrids 10-12 years ago, it makes a big
impact on purchasing decisions.

I bought my 2005 Prius largely based on the car of the year recommendation on
the 2004 Prius (among other research, sure). That recommendation helped
validate that I wasn't buying an experiment - people _who know cars_ thought
this was a great buy.

~~~
gregwtmtno
I don't think it's such a big deal. The Volt won in 2011, and that car didn't
change the automotive world substantially.

~~~
astalwick
You may be right.

However, the Volt is basically just a hybrid with a bigger battery. By 2011,
hybrids were pretty common, so being nervous about the tech wasn't as much of
an issue. That's the point I'm trying to make: for most people, $30k is a
pretty big investment. New tech is a risk, and awards like COTY go a long way
to overcoming consumer resistance to that risk.

It's possible, though, that Tesla has done enough to prove out electric cars.
Tesla won COTY as well.

------
ohstopitu
This is a pet peeve of mine, but I don't get why cars need to change design
(subjective: and make them ulgy) just because they are EVs?

Tesla showed the world that a car could look like a "car" and still be
electric. I'm all for innovations in design, but weird/ugly designs are also a
reason that stops people from buying electric cars.

~~~
joezydeco
BMW i3 is a great example.

[http://o.aolcdn.com/commerce/autodata/images/USC40BMC601B021...](http://o.aolcdn.com/commerce/autodata/images/USC40BMC601B021001.jpg)

Would it have been that much more work to fit it all into a 1-series?

[http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2013/05/2013-b...](http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2013/05/2013-bmw-135is-
review.jpg)

The wheelbase is only 3" longer on the 1er.

~~~
ohstopitu
Exactly! and BMW i8 is an example of an EV that looks pretty sweet[0]. So,
it's not like car manufacturers can't make good looking EVs, it's that they
chose not to.

[0]
[http://buyersguide.caranddriver.com/media/assets/submodel/78...](http://buyersguide.caranddriver.com/media/assets/submodel/7821.jpg)

------
antongribok
I'm a little saddened by all of the comments about this "article" being
written like an advertisement. Perhaps if people watched the actual award
presentation they'd feel differently:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SijPcSOhev4&t=1803](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SijPcSOhev4&t=1803)

Also, some more info on behind the scenes:
[http://www.motortrend.com/news/behind-the-scenes-2017-car-
of...](http://www.motortrend.com/news/behind-the-scenes-2017-car-of-the-year-
testing/)

------
cx1000
Two questions: the article mentions "magnets made from a rare earth metal
called dysprosium" are used in the motor. How rare is this and will it
eventually limit volume?

>the wide range of its current and projected uses, together with the lack of
any immediately suitable replacement, makes dysprosium the single most
critical element for emerging clean energy technologies - even their most
conservative projections predict a shortfall of dysprosium before 2015. [0]

My other question, as a non EV, owner is how easy is it to charge these? Can I
charge from home or do I have to compete with others at charge stations? At
work we have so many EVs that people have to rotate their cars throughout the
day.

Note: I'm pro electric car, just curious about scalability

[0]
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysprosium](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysprosium)

~~~
WorldMaker
It's pretty easy to charge an EV and many owners do charge at home as their
primary place to charge. I have a '12 Volt that I charge on a standard outlet
in my garage at home. This "trickle charge" is fairly slow, but enough to
charge the Volt's smaller battery overnight and give me just shy of 40 miles
for the day, which is more than enough most days to get to work, run errands,
get back home on a single charge without needing to charge away from home
(work doesn't have any chargers right now or easily accessible outside plugs)
or use a cup or so of gas.

This certainly works pretty well for me. I could install a higher voltage
charger at home and charge faster, once I have the money to invest in that
effort, but given my car is typically sitting in my garage overnight anyway, I
haven't felt a strong need for it just yet.

I think that home charging is something of an overlooked game changer about
EVs. Admittedly not everyone will have that ability just yet (apartment
complexes and people that need street parking don't easy available electricity
to their parking spaces yet), but there is something really convenient to know
that your car is charging at Home while you sleep where it would be sitting
unused anyway.

~~~
projektfu
I've also thought about a level 2 charger and I just haven't seen the need. If
we accidentally forget to plug in overnight, we may temporarily have a
gasoline car that is more efficient than any car I've previously owned.

------
mark_l_watson
My wife drives a "nicer" car but I am really happy with my old 1998 Toyota
Corolla: stick shift, nothing has ever gone wrong with it, and it gets
incredible gas mileage. I occasionally get it detailed and worked over by a
local guy, a real artist, who builds large car models from scratch - he keeps
my car looking good.

That said, I am tempted to trade it in for a Bolt EV. If I add more solar
panels to our roof, I can try for a zero carbon footprint (except for the car
manufacture and maintenance).

------
_ph_
Great to see a really middle class electrical vehicle coming to the market
with a good range. The big question though is: how many of them does GM plan
to make? I have read that the first year production is planned to be 30k units
with a possible extension to 50k units later on. That would be rather small
numbers compared to what Tesla today sells and especially to the 400k
preorders for the Model 3. I hope, that GM does ramp up numbers more.

~~~
greglindahl
LG apparently has enough battery capacity that GM could make more, but I
suspect GM doesn't have a good idea of how many they could sell. If you look
on the Internets, you can see quite a few complaints about the Nissan Leaf
buying experience: dealers are chock full of salespeople who do not understand
electric cars. That will take time to fix.

~~~
_ph_
Is there any information about their total battery production capacity?

------
Roritharr
I wonder where the top Speed Limit comes from, is it battery cooling or
artificial limiting to proclaim a better Range? In Germany that number raised
a few eyebrows.

~~~
ferongr
Most electric cars lack a variable-ratio transmission. At some point and you
only have the final drive to reduce the speed of the electric motor.

The final drive has to strike a balance between torque for negotiating
inclines and top speed, as the electric motor cannot rev to infinity, neither
can the power systems handle infinite power though them.

An electric car with a two-ratio gearbox would be ideal for both taking off
from a standstill and top speed.

~~~
awjr
One of the concerns I have is that many of the EVs that are being released are
not capable of towing significantly. I own a horse and we need something that
can tow a braked 3.5T trailer.

This market in the EU is primarily serviced by diesel 4x4s. I can see a future
where the diesel engine is banned and only at that point will something fall
out of the woodwork to cope with that towing capacity.

~~~
ollie87
Extra battery in the floor of the trailer? Hooks into the car and gives it
some extra juice, why wouldn't that work?

~~~
Klathmon
IIRC it's not the battery power as much as it is the cooling.

Many of the parts on electric cars overheat when pushed pretty quickly, and
while adding cooling similar to a traditional ICE seems to be the answer, it
adds even more weight and complexity to a platform which is already fighting
to save every oz.

Even the Tesla Model S can't do more than a single lap around many tracks
without overheating.

~~~
mikeash
I have heard that the more recent Model Ss (Models S?) are a lot better about
being able to keep up with power output on tracks, although what you say was
definitely true for a long time.

------
35bge57dtjku
A car that would leave you with about a $600/month payment is 'for the
masses'?

~~~
vinay427
_" The federal EV tax credit of $7,500 gets the price down to less than
$30,000"_ [1]

 _" the estimated average transaction price (ATP) for light vehicles in the
United States was $33,666 in March 2016."_ [2]

A car that costs less than the median purchase price for new vehicles in the
US seems pretty close to "for the masses" to me. It's at least in the running
for more than half of all new car buyers in terms of price (not in size or
amenities, obviously).

[1]: Parent article

[2]: [http://mediaroom.kbb.com/new-car-transaction-prices-
up-2-per...](http://mediaroom.kbb.com/new-car-transaction-prices-up-2-percent-
march-2016)

~~~
honkhonkpants
You jumped from mean to median. The /median/ new car price in this country is
about $22k.

~~~
vinay427
I stand corrected, I misread the article I was quoting. Apologies for the
error.

------
madengr
I wonder if taking pre-orders for the model 3 was a way for Tesla to lock up
orders in anticipation of competition?

~~~
Element_
I thought the pre-order down payment was fully refundable.

~~~
mikeash
It is, so it's not really a "lock," but it'll get some people to wait if they
have money in it. And it's also an easy way for Tesla to raise some money.
They got $400+ million for "free" that way.

------
tener
This largely reads as a paid ad. There are plenty of numbers comparing old and
new models, yet very few when they compare to Tesla. It would be interesting
to read a more neutral comparison though.

~~~
johnm1019
While I agree the tone of the article is a paid ad, the reason you can't
compare it to a model 3 is because the model 3 doesn't exist yet. Comparing it
to a Model S is ok in the sense that you _can_ compare a Cessna 172 to a
Learjet, but why? Different markets, different price points.

~~~
projektfu
It's more like comparing economy class with business class.

------
mikkael
Surely a nice car. But I wonder where all this electrical power for all those
electrical cars in the future will come from? Probably from nuclear power
plants with their still unresolved nuclear waste problematics - not even
speaking about nuclear accidents. From this point of view I have some doubts
that mass adoption of affordable electrical cars will be beneficial for the
environment...

~~~
pmarreck
1) You're not up-to-date on _recent_ nuclear power safety data.

[https://www.wired.com/2016/04/nuclear-power-safe-save-
world-...](https://www.wired.com/2016/04/nuclear-power-safe-save-world-
climate-change/)

[http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/safety-
and-...](http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/safety-and-
security/safety-of-plants/safety-of-nuclear-power-reactors.aspx)

2) Wind and solar could accomplish a lot. It already does in Germany, at
least.

~~~
mikkael
Regarding 2): Well, in Germany around 29% of the electrical power is currently
from renewable energy sources (12% wind, 6% sun, 6% bio mass, 3% water, ...).
Not (yet) enough for today and not enough for all future electric cars...
[https://www.bmwi.de/DE/Themen/Energie/Erneuerbare-
Energien/e...](https://www.bmwi.de/DE/Themen/Energie/Erneuerbare-
Energien/erneuerbare-energien-auf-einen-blick.html)

