

Save the Internet from the US - Fice
http://www.avaaz.org/en/stop_cispa/

======
jbarham
Off topic, but the image is apt as it's from a film called "The Lives of
Others", set in East Germany in 1984, about a secret police agent who conducts
surveillance on a dissident writer. IMO it's a very well done and moving film,
and well worth watching, especially given that the period is within relatively
recent memory--well, for some of us! ;)

IMDB: <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405094/> Rotten Tomatoes:
<http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_lives_of_others/>

~~~
ward
Off the off topic: why is the English world so intent on translating
everything? (Much like the French world I guess)

In the Dutch speaking part of Belgium we try to refer to most movies in their
original language (Das Leben Der Anderen, Cidade De Deus, ...), though we do
seem to have trouble with Asian titles where we for some obscure reason
default to _using the English title_. Edit: We do translate children's movies.

~~~
freehunter
Because America has few close neighbors (close as in geographically and as in
relations) who speak a foreign language and also produce media Americans
consume on a regular basis. Americans don't need to learn a foreign language,
and when they do it's difficult to get real-world practice. Canadian French
and Mexican Spanish are the only two an American would generally run into, and
only infrequently. I speak German and Canadian French and struggle to find
reasons to use those languages.

It irritates me when Europeans get upset about American lack of "worldliness"
(for lack of a better term). The US is bigger than the entire European Union,
has only one de facto language, and is removed from the rest of the world by
3,000 miles of water on each side. Of course Americans aren't constantly
running into people from other countries/cultures, we have states that are
bigger than many European sovereign nations. I can drive 3000 miles (~5000km)
from New York to LA and encounter nothing but America and English.

In Europe, that would get you from Brugge to Burgas _and back_ , going through
Belgium, Germany, Austria, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, and Bulgaria.
_And back_. Lisbon is closer to Helsinki than New York is to LA.

~~~
carguy1983
> Of course Americans aren't constantly running into people from other
> countries/cultures

Really? Not to sound like a prick but you must live in the middle of nowhere.
I live in LA (santa monica, to be exact). I live next to an eastern European
deli, kosher jewish, multiple Chinese restaurants, sushi, ramen, and yaki
joints, thai, Peruvian, Mexican, Korean, Caribbean/Jamaican/Cuban Vietnamese,
French, German, Ethiopian, Greek, Italian, "middle eastern", persian,
mediterranean, russian restaurants / groceries / communities / -owned
businesses/ the list goes on and on and on. And of course good ol' american
BBQ, burgers and beer, standard fast food, ice cream, southern soul food, tex
mex, east coast seafood, southern creole, ...

Many people come here from around the world to work in professional jobs,
also. And many students and faculty at UCLA, LMU, USC, SMC, etc, etc.

It's just that many of those people all speak English, can act 100% "American"
when they need to, and their cultures have become a seamless part of American
culture. This is something else many non-Americans don't understand (and
Americans don't see even though it's right under their noses).

In fact, if you count the languages that "Americans" including 1st and 2nd
generation immigrants speak, it's vast.

 _Ugly truth: It's just that a lot of Europeans don't count asians, hispanics,
blacks, as Americans, so you hear this crap all the time on the internet due
to racism and stereotypes of what America is and isn't._

~~~
babarock
This goes beyond the point at hand. I'm not necessarily disagreeing (I'm not
from the US), but we're discussing the compulsive need to translate culture,
present in the US but in other parts of the world (like aforementioned french-
speaking world).

Trying to define the racial "identity" of what's American and who consider it
such is a slight straw man. Regardless of who is or isn't American, and what
languages they speak, we're discussing the need for "original" titles.

Here in France, referring to the movie by its title "Das Leben Der Anderen"
would raise eyebrows at best, it would often get you dismissed as pedantic
douche. In other parts of the world, it's a given that you just don't
translate titles.

~~~
carguy1983
It's not a strawman, it's the exact argument that freehunter posed (that
americans never see 'foreigners'). I'm refuting it by saying no, that's not
true, and the global idea of what an american vs. what a foreigner is cloudy
at best.

~~~
freehunter
I didn't mean to imply that Americans never encounter foreigners, but that
they never encounter an area where they have to speak another language and
deal with another foreign culture.

Think of it in this context: when I travel to Illinois, the people there are
still American and still speak English. When a Danish person travels to
Belgium (same distance, ~400 miles), they are now in a country where they
speak Dutch/German/French and have a Belgian culture. There are almost 10
million Belgians in Belgium, there are just over 350,000 in the US. Of those,
how many speak French, how many speak Dutch, and how many speak German? I'll
bet almost all of them speak English.

------
noonespecial
The internet shouldn't need "saving" from any country. The lopsided control
that the US has over the internet is kind of an accident. This should start to
sort itself out on its own. It might be worth hurrying along where possible by
technical means.

Then again, the more crazy the Americans pour on, the faster their influence
may wane. "American internet" might start to have the same reputation as
American airports.

~~~
seanp2k2
It's really sad to see some special interest groups trying to put a damper on
what seems to be the only industry growing like crazy and disrupting every
other industry: tech.

We can keep protesting, but MAFIAA is relentless and they have all the money
we keep giving them through DVD sales, movie tickets, album sales, Netflix,
Hulu, cable tv, etc.

If you really want to fight them, stop funding their domestic terrorism.

~~~
trobertson
> only industry ... disrupting every other industry

Why are you surprised that they are trying to save themselves? That's the
logical thing for them to do. They have no reason to let the internet destroy
them, and every reason to try to prevent that. It sucks for us, because we
have to deal with it, but it's a very logical thing for them to do.

It would be better if they learned to coexist with the internet, but most of
these industries are not known for being innovative enough to do so.

~~~
sophacles
Saving themselves is logical. Saving themselves by adjusting to the new world
and being leaders in of "new content" is equally as valid "destroy all that
threatens our current model". The later is probably more logical too, as
making enemies who then seek to destroy you is less productive than making
friends who seek to further the aims and goals of both groups. Right now the
MPAA has chosen pyrrhic victory over a win-win, this is by definition
illogical.

~~~
Kadin
It may be illogical for the organization, but it's certainly not for the
individuals who actually comprise and run that organization. We need to keep
in mind that companies, while useful abstractions, are fundamentally just
groups of people, and often suffer as a result of individual shortsightedness.

I suspect that many of the people that actually comprise the RIAA's and MPAA's
member companies, and many of the decision makers, are "over the hill" of
their careers. They're not interested in radical change or reshaping the
industry. The industry as it stands has been good to them, and they want to
continue to milk that for as long as it takes so they can retire comfortably.

That attitude -- both hyperconservative and with its over-valuation of short-
term gains compared to long-term ones -- adequately explains many of the
actions taken by the music industry in the late 90s and the film industry
today.

It will take a new generation of leaders in those industries for them to make
the leap to new business models that will keep them profitable over the long
run in the modern competitive environment.

------
camiller
The bill is only 11 pages and is a fairly easy (for legislation) read. My
initial pass through the bill I'm having trouble seeing what is wrong with it.
This bill seems to simply allow federal intelligence agencies who are already
collecting information on cyber-security threats to share that information
with other governmental agencies and non-governmental entities. If the gov't
has information that crackers are trying to hack the power grid I want them to
be able to share that information with the power company, duh.

If someone can explain why this bill is actually bad I'll be happy to contact
my rep, but right now I don't think it is.

~~~
Goronmon
It sounds like this gives the government the power to monitor the internet
connections of anyone in order to see if they are doing things like infringing
copyright.

~~~
Goronmon
Woohoo, bring on the downvotes.

~~~
camiller
In the interest of discussion I up voted you, not sure who is down voting.

Just out of curiosity, where in the bill does it suggest they could, by virtue
of this bill, monitor anyone's connection. To me the bill seems to be about
the sharing of information, not the collection of it. I'm willing to be
persuaded otherwise.

------
nsns
While the cause is just, I'm not sure I want to sign an Avaaz petition. After
all, they are also a (political) lobby, with its own, somewhat questionable,
agendas, not a grassroots movement in any way.

I also seriously doubt that a petition is better than US citizens calling
their representatives, as was recommended during the last struggle.

[[http://wrongkindofgreen.org/2012/03/07/the-grotesque-and-
dis...](http://wrongkindofgreen.org/2012/03/07/the-grotesque-and-disturbing-
ideology-at-the-helm-of-avaaz/) [http://www.moonofalabama.org/2012/03/avaaz-
sponsoring-fake-r...](http://www.moonofalabama.org/2012/03/avaaz-sponsoring-
fake-reporting-from-syria.html)
[http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/20/avaaz-
activism-s...](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/20/avaaz-activism-
slactivism-clicktivism?INTCMP=SRCH)]

~~~
slowpoke
_> I also seriously doubt that a petition is better than US citizens calling
their representatives, as was recommended during the last struggle._

The thing is, this affects far more than just US citizens. What is the rest of
the world supposed to do? Sit and watch while hoping the US citizens sort it
out?

~~~
tsotha
>The thing is, this affects far more than just US citizens. What is the rest
of the world supposed to do? Sit and watch while hoping the US citizens sort
it out?

As opposed to signing a petition? Seems like the same thing to me.

------
babarock
How long should we, the non-US citizen rest of the world, sit back and look at
the country battling internal political demons while attacking the Internet
every other week with a new law proposal?

I'm not very big on politics, as far as I'm concerned every official, elected
or not, of every country in the world is a useless nuisance (some would call
them a necessary evil, that's up for debate). On the other hand, I'm very
attached to the Internet. I really hope we'd find a way to take this
cyberspace out of any political jursdiction; utlimately, what I care about is
being able to say and read whatever I want off the internet. Politicians and
corporations won't care for that no matter who they are. All they care is for
power and money. And in that aspect the Internet is a goldmine.

~~~
seanp2k2
We need an alternative DNS root zone that is controlled by something like NATO
(but for Internet interoperability.)

<http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_DNS_root>

This would democratize the Internet an take lots of control away from the US

~~~
davidw
Or... the United Nations, so that countries like Russia and China would get
more of a say in how things are run?

Oh... hrm....

~~~
babarock
Oh no, not Russia! not China! my government/media/neighbor told me they're
Evil.

Let's keep the control to people like Lamar Smith. At least he's <insert bogus
excuse with big words like "freedom" or "free speech">

~~~
davidw
You can observe and read about how the Russians and Chinese behave yourself,
no? The great firewall? Syria? Putin's gradual takeover of Russia?

The US has plenty of defects, but is not really in the same league.

Now, that's no excuse at all to not demand better behavior from US
politicians, but it is pointing out that "international control" over the
internet is no panacea.

------
terhechte
I didn't really look into this law, but notwithstanding whether it's really as
bad as the site claims, there's one really worrying effect of this: Congress
just has to continue trying, and some point people won't care enough anymore
to stop it. The SOPA protests were impressive, but I'm doubtful that people
will manage to continue protesting like that with every new law that congress
is trying to sneak in. A bit like the constant reporting in the news about
cruel same wars makes people care less about it.

~~~
ori_b
We need to lobby for strong net neutrality and privacy laws. As much as I
dislike regulation, leaving things as a vacuum doesn't work -- pushed by
lobbyists, the laws will expand to fill the gaps to the advantage of some
party.

------
emilis_info
More details about the bill:
[http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120402/04425118325/forget...](http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120402/04425118325/forget-
sopa-you-should-be-worried-about-this-cybersecurity-bill.shtml)

------
andreif
As someone has already said here on HN, that since those greedy guys will
never stop trying such things, the community must kick them back by taking
away their unjustified privileges and "rights", by changing copyright law the
way WE ALL WANT IT. I hope that the next initiative involving this big number
of people will be about fighting back, not defending.

------
monsterix
Who are the hundred 'special ones' supporting such a bill in the first place?
It would be really nice if someone could compile profiles of these political
leaders/servants, their names, and office of public duty.

Often there are a lot 2 cent/4 cent support staff helping such 100 odd people
introducing lame bills too. Call it bureaucracy or whatever. Bring these
people online, and connect with them. Confront them, probably.

I think it would be really nice to meet these people, and perhaps interact
with.

[Edit: Spell check]

~~~
camiller
<http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hr3523>

find the link that says "show cosponsors" and click it. click any individual
name for more details.

~~~
monsterix
Thanks, camiller :-) This just got interesting for me to dig deeper.

Probably all stories about these negative bills should carry photos and
profiles of who's who in the league. If it's about transparency enforcement
then the sword should sweep in both the directions.

That's fair to ask, I believe, especially from chairs that are funded from
taxpayers money.

~~~
camiller
For what it is worth, you can also read the text of the bill there. Having
done so (it is only 11 pages), I'm not convinced this is a "negative" bill.

------
DodgyEggplant
We must simplify it: Any *PA bill is wrong.

------
joering2
I think up to some point, the DNS is a result of human laziness. I wish the IP
system could be simplified, like phone numbers. Before ability to save every
number in your cell phonebook, you had to remember your mom and pop number.

If I would know that Google servers (or main root server/hub) is located in
New York, and 212 is area code, all I would have to remember, for example, is
555-821. This would limit ways in which LE can take down the website, when
they do not shut down the server/website, but redirect the domain name to
their site.

