
How Frank Lloyd Wright Tried to Solve the City - wormold
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2014/05/frank-lloyd-wright-tried-to-solve-the-city.html
======
ohwp
There are more architects who tried this. Christopher Alexander dedicated a
lot of time to solve building countries to doorsteps.

What amazed me after reading some of his books are the physical effects of
today's cities on humans (and animals).

Some examples:

Living higher than 4 stores: there is evidence that this will disconnect you
from the life happening on ground level.

Streets made for cars: cars are more important than humans.

~~~
vanderZwan
To clarify: these are examples of what NOT to do, and Alexander stated them as
such.

~~~
hueving
I disagree. I can't ride a human to work. :-)

~~~
vanderZwan
That's the point: bad city planning forces you to use a car.

Compare that to a city like Groningen:

[https://vimeo.com/76207227](https://vimeo.com/76207227)

~~~
silverbax88
Groningen, a city of less than 200,000, is not scalable for the biggest cities
in the world, which is the problem. Biking across New York or L.A. is not even
remotely feasible. I'm not saying better cities are not possible, but just
putting everyone on bikes is not even close to a solution. You'd be better off
going back to horses.

~~~
walshemj
Well 1 horses are dangerous (horse riding is a high risk sport) 2 the removal
of the horse poop becomes a major issue.

I cant see a problem in riding across New York - I have done cross central
London a few times.

~~~
silverbax88
And you are of course, elderly or handicapped, correct? Or you need to travel
with two small children? And when you say you biked 'across New York', you
mean from Long Island or Yonkers to Manhattan or some similar commuter trek,
correct?

~~~
walshemj
Across manhatten yes done that distance many many times in London its
surprising how quickly you can get from a train terminus in the north over the
river on a bike.

You can get kids bike seats and trailers I see a tandem with a kids trailer do
a commute from my village to the local town (3 miles quite often)

------
saraid216
I'd recommend Leon Krier's Architecture of Community if you want a better look
at this: [http://www.amazon.com/The-Architecture-Community-Leon-
Krier/...](http://www.amazon.com/The-Architecture-Community-Leon-
Krier/dp/1597265799) He gets somewhat repetitive and preachy, IMO, and I don't
feel the book delivers on its promises, but it's a much more in-depth look at
the ideas faintly alluded to in the article.

Differently, check out Vishaan Chakrabarti's A Country of Cities, which
disagrees with Krier (and thus agrees with Wright) on the skyscraper:
[http://www.amazon.com/Country-Cities-Manifesto-Urban-
America...](http://www.amazon.com/Country-Cities-Manifesto-Urban-
America/dp/1935202170/) It suffers, IIRC, from not enough citations but is
otherwise pretty strong on its argument.

I tend to lean towards agreeing with Chakrabarti and Wright more on the
vertical space issue, largely because Krier never quite managed to form a
coherent argument against density except that it was being done badly. Krier,
on the other hand, highlights the idea of the poly-centric city which is at
least a reality in Seattle (where I live).

------
saalweachter
The article mentions that his spread out, one-acre-per-person city "would be
connected by a complex design of streets and highways."

Is anyone familiar with his highway plan? My impression of city planning is
that roads are the hard, boring part, so I'm curious if Wright's roads were
just a thing he drew between his beautifully arranged buildings and parks, or
if he had an actual plan for how to move people efficiently around his cities.

Saying "everyone should live close to their workplace" only works if you have
a single, mega-office/industrial park, with all of the housing arranged
tightly around it. Once you have _two_ places people can work, changing jobs
requires people to change houses, and only people who work together can live
together. So in practice you need to have a transportation system that allows
everyone in the city to commute between work and home in a short amount of
time during a small window of time in the morning and afternoon.

Sitting in traffic in a beautifully designed city does not sound particularly
more fun than sitting in traffic in a poorly designed city.

~~~
saraid216
> Saying "everyone should live close to their workplace" only works if you
> have a single, mega-office/industrial park, with all of the housing arranged
> tightly around it.

You're assuming zoning.

Check this out: office. And then put a house on top.

More reasonably, do what I ended up having to do in SimCity: zone a couple
spaces as commercial, then zone another couple spaces as residential, and then
zone another couple spaces as commercial, and keep flipping back and forth.

~~~
saalweachter
It doesn't matter if you have zoning or intermingled commercial/residential.

I work at Industrial Widgets, it's in an intermingled commercial/residential
building, there's an apartment free on the three floors up from the very
office.

My wife currently works at Consolidated Sprockets across town. There's an
apartment across the street. However, it's just an internship at she hopes to
get a job at Conglomerated Weevils in a few months. It's located in a third
location.

Where should we live?

~~~
saraid216
[edit] I wrote a thing about transportation, but I didn't realize you were
criticizing Wright's plan, so nevermind; I've actually never found a reason to
admire Wright and the article didn't really do anything for that.

------
mynegation
I recommend everyone to visit his masterpiece building: Fallingwater tucked in
the Pennsylvania countryside, and also a nearby smaller house Kentuck Knob. I
visited both twice. During my second visit I stood breathless before the
Fallingwater and weeped, so beautiful and perfect it was.

~~~
zb
Seconded. I wrote up a little piece about my visit to Fallingwater and why it
particularly fascinates me, as a software engineer:

[http://www.zerobanana.com/essays/fallingwater/](http://www.zerobanana.com/essays/fallingwater/)

(Kentucky Knob is also really interesting, and so close that it's certainly
worth visiting both if you're in the area.)

------
dredmorbius
No discussion of cities and reimagining them is complete without referencing
Jane Jacobs.

Her approach was almost the direct opposite of Wrights (and of many urban
reformers). Her focus was the street and interactions between residents,
shopkeepers, and other inhabitants of the city. Her realization (mirrored well
by Garrison Keillor in a biographical documentary I caught a year or so back)
was that _cities are collections of neighborhoods or villages_. rglover her
contrasts his impression of Chicago with the small towns of Ohio in which he
grew up. My experience with large cities is that frequently their _downtowns_
are impersonal (though even there I've found my niches), but it's in the
neighborhood that their character really shows. Sometimes it's a character you
don't much care for, but often there's a sense of place and community, even in
dynamic and rapidly changing cities, which can persist for years, decades, or
even generations. It does take time to appreciate and find, though.

Back to Jacobs: finding her _The Life and Death of Great American Cities_ was
a watershed for me (and I can still remember the marginalia in my uni's copy
at one of her common-sense observations: "God bless you, Jane"). _Cities and
the Wealth of Nations_ and _The Economy of Cities_ changed many of my
perceptions of what economics was about and where its real centers lay (it's
rarely nations or states, cities and metropolitan areas, yes).

Wright's interesting. But he's no authority on cities or urban planning.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Jacobs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Jacobs)

------
meddlepal
Frank Lloyd Wright tried to solve the city by destroying the city. His
Broadacre design experiment is pretty much affluent, planned suburban America.

No thanks.

------
rglover
I grew up in suburban Ohio and have lived in Chicago for the past two years.
Before I moved, there was a longing to join the energy of the city. Ohio, by
and large, is pretty slow moving. It wasn't until I got to Chicago that I
realized the effect that change of pace had.

In order to both live and function in the city, I had to rewire my brain. I
recall the first few months in the city being absolutely terrifying. Not
because of any one thing in particular, but your sense of self starts to
evaporate. You start to see the boundaries between _you_ and the universe. You
feel small.

Occasionally, my girlfriend and I travel back to her home town. An honest to
goodness town, too. It's classified as a "village." When I'm there, I often
take walks around the entirety of the town. The change of pace is incredible.
Even compared to where I grew up, there's a sense of serenity, not just in the
immediate experience, but in the people.

The behavior you see there is a total 180 from what you experience in the city
– a cold, dismissive brood that makes you feel entirely too insignificant.

When I moved to Chicago I made it a point to visit FLW's home and studio in
Oak Park (about 20-30 minutes outside of the city). Though the area he built
in has changed dramatically (based on the descriptions told as a part of the
tour), there was something really serene about it all. His home was directly
adjacent to his studio. Seeing this, the whole time I thought "yeah, I could
dig this."

This article makes his vision sound akin to the modern day suburb, which,
while there are similarities, doesn't feel like an accurate interpretation. If
you get the chance to experience some of his more rural-based work, I would
check it out. There's a certain flow to the buildings he designed that elicits
a feeling of peace. I can imagine his plans outlined in this article were to
accomplish that on a much bigger scale.

~~~
cphuntington97
I think you're a harsh judge of cities if Chicago is your only example. I had
similar thoughts about Chicago on a brief visit; that it's big, cold both
physically and emotionally, windy... generally, somewhat hostile to the
senses. I'm sure there are a lot of great activities going on that I don't
know about, but that was my surface impression.

I live in Buffalo, New York which to me is a "just right" sized city. I can
walk around the urban core as one might walk around a village. It's busy
enough to feel lively on a business day, and relatively quiet in the evening.

Having grown up in the suburbs, I only now realize how isolating boulevards
and strip malls can be. I like walking and biking. I see my neighbors more. I
get more exercise. I create less pollution. I feel more connected and more
alive.

I'm not shy to the charm and serenity of country living. The stars alone can
entertain me for hours at night. It can be so enriching to have some space,
some quiet, some separation, some peace. Some time to think and to work.

Wright's family-per-acre spread seems neither urban, nor rural; technically,
'sub urban' \- but not our current suburbia. Still, it seems to lose sight of
the value of density. The highways he proposes would mean cars, noise,
pollution, and isolation.

Buffalo has a trove of FLW treasures: his boathouse, gas station, mausoleum,
Martin house, Graycliff. There is definitely something to them, a sense of
space and elegance.

Having warmed to Buffalo's urbanism, the appeal of FLW's 'city' vision is lost
on me. But his freestanding works are unique and worth experiencing.

~~~
rglover
Chicago is the only major city I've lived in. I didn't mean to articulate my
feelings toward _all_ cities. There are parts of New York City that feel
incredibly homey (strange as that may sound). There's definitely a size of
city that's just right, like you've described here. I also used to live in Ann
Arbor, MI. Considered a city, but also has a nice hometown feel to it.

I agree on the isolation of boulevards and strip malls. I prefer areas where
there's a microcity/downtown area, but a lot of grassy residential space close
by. The modern mega suburbs (with Best Buy's, Wal-Marts, and every fast food
imaginable) are terrible.

------
jeremymcanally
As mentioned in the article, there's an exhibit right now at NYC's MoMA on
Wright's ideas about the city:
[http://www.moma.org/visit/calendar/exhibitions/1448](http://www.moma.org/visit/calendar/exhibitions/1448)

I saw it last week, and it's really great. They have the scale model he built
there along with a lot of his drawings. A lot of fascinating ideas in there. I
just wish I could locate some of his writings on the subject without dropping
$200-$300 on an out of print copy of a portion of his autobiography or papers.
:(

------
digitalengineer
Wasn't Frank Lloyd Wright the inspiration for the main characer of Ayn Rands
'The Fountainhead?' She uses him to draw a figure, mocked by regular
architects, fighting against the 'fake' style of that day: architects trying
to build 'classic' buildings from Greek times with columns and all. In the
novel 'man' is what the buildings are about, if I'm correct. I don't know for
sure, but I imagine Frank got his share of ridiculement as well.

~~~
ohwp
From Wp[1]: _" The character of Roark was at least partly inspired by American
architect Frank Lloyd Wright. Rand described the inspiration as limited to
"some of his architectural ideas [and] the pattern of his career".[19] She
denied that Wright had anything to do with the philosophy expressed by Roark
or the events of the plot."_

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fountainhead#Howard_Roark](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fountainhead#Howard_Roark)

~~~
digitalengineer
Hey thanks! I'd never realised they were from the same time-frame and knew
each other. From the same article: "Rand's denials have not stopped other
commentators from claiming stronger connections between Wright and
Roark.[21][22] Wright himself equivocated about whether he thought Roark was
based on him, sometimes implying that he was, at other times denying it.[23]
Wright biographer Ada Louise Huxtable described the "yawning gap" between
Wright's philosophy and Rand's, and quoted him declaring, "I deny the
paternity and refuse to marry the mother."[24]"

------
harywilke
i can recommend Urbanized. a documentary about urban city planning. it covers
lots of current ideas, and has interviews with many leading architects and
urban planners.

[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1701976/](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1701976/)
[http://urbanizedfilm.com/](http://urbanizedfilm.com/)

------
jacquesm
See also:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Niemeyer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Niemeyer)

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%BAcio_Costa](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%BAcio_Costa)

and their work on:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bras%C3%ADlia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bras%C3%ADlia)

~~~
seeingfurther
I lived in Rio for 3 years and every time I saw a building or design that
didn't seem to fit, invariably it was a Niemeyer work or inspired by Niemeyer.
You can still find the old Portuguese architecture in spots but you really
have to look for it <sigh> maybe I'm just not modern enough.

~~~
sanoli
Lived in Rio for long time and always go there to visit. Agree with you,
Niemeyer stuff is just out of place, and some just look like badly aged sci-
fi. Here in Sao Paulo there's this little mall on the first floor of one of
his buildings, and none of the stores have bathrooms. I was told by an
architect that Niemeyer, being a communist, wanted bathrooms to be collective.
So you have to go up a flight of stairs and pee in this dark, dungeon-like
cave that nobody uses anyway.

------
josephlord
I've heard the name lots of times in a Simon & Garfunkel song but I didn't
know who he was.

~~~
snail22
As someone who studied architecture for years, this made me literally groan
out loud. Frank Lloyd Wright is usually the one architect whom people at least
have heard of. One of the issues which has discouraged me from pursuing
computer programming in the past is my impression that a lot of people
involved in technology-related careers (ie my would-be future peers) have
narrow perspectives on the world due to their reduced levels of interest in a
wider liberal arts education, and it is annoying when I see something which
confirms that. I really hope that I don't sound like a troll, but I also value
giving and receiving honest feedback, and my guess is that some of you could
probably benefit from looking away from the computer screen once and a while
and exploring something new.

~~~
sanoli
What are you talking about? Here in HN people are aware of and interested in a
bunch of different subjects. Plus, unlike the liberal arts/artist crowd, they
have tachnical knowledge and are usually more rational about their opinions
and conclusions. So one person says he hadn't heard of Wright in the middle of
many more people commenting the article, and you say hackers need to look more
at the arts?

~~~
snail22
I'm not necessarily talking about HN, but about people I have known in person
- classmates in college, people I knew socially afterwards, and (this probably
has skewed my judgement somewhat) an ex-boyfriend. I also personally suspect
that the phenomena may even be making some hard-to-trace contribution (through
reduced opportunities to practice communication skills, limited peer groups,
and less time spent studying human diversity and other cultures in general) to
the headlines which keep popping up about how sexist the technology field is.
I know that concern may sound extreme, and I really hope that it can be proven
wrong. Obviously (and thankfully) none of that can be generalized, but the
original poster's example was so shocking to me that I felt compelled to say
something warning people that the situation is in some cases possible.

I also don't know what you mean when you say that people with technical
knowledge (which I have some of) are "more rational about their opinions and
conclusions" \- I sincerely believe that taking a literary theory class and
learning about often-vilified (perhaps not here) ideas such as postmodernism
and deconstruction improved my decision-making ability by allowing me to
better understand both sides of an issue.

