
This jacket uses the same material as NASA’s spacesuits to keep you warm - williswee
https://www.techinasia.com/jacket-nasa-material-oros
======
msandford
> Michael Markesbery, CEO and co-founder of Oros, tells Tech in Asia the
> jackets utilize Aerogel, a material used by NASA in their spacesuits. It
> helps with insulation and allows the apparel to be warm, thin, and
> lightweight. Aerogel is considered to be the most effective thermal
> conductor on the planet as it is 90 percent air. Oro’s jackets are, on
> average, only 3mm thick but give the same warmth as a 40mm Goose Down
> equivalent.

I don't think you know what "thermal conductor" means. I also love the claim
that the gloves are self-heating without any need for a battery. Do little
fires get started in them that you have to feed with wood pellets? Or do they
just use those rust-heat-pouches?

~~~
OROSapparel
Hi! OROS Apparel team here :)

The aerogel in the gloves is coated on one side with pure graphene. Graphene
is the exact opposite of aerogel. While aerogel has an incredibly low thermal
conductivity (making it an awesome insulator), pure graphene has an incredibly
high thermal conductivity (making it a great conductor). Most metals act the
same way as graphene (they have high thermal conductivities)-- think about the
last time you got in your car on a hot summer day and went to put your
seatbelt on. You accidentally touched the metal part of the seatbelt and
immediately regretted your decision. It was hot. Metals, like graphene, pick
up heat in the presence of heat (hence high thermal conductivity). So, imagine
the graphene coated side of the aerogel is facing your hand. Your hand
releases heat. The heat gets picked up by the graphene. The graphene heats up.
The heat does not easily escape, because on the other side of the graphene is
aerogel (an insulator). You now have, essentially, a self heating glove
without a battery.

~~~
snowwrestler
The graphene layer harms the warmth of the glove by transporting heat from the
hand, where it is needed, to the insulation, where it is not needed.

A perfectly insulating glove would not conduct heat at all, in any way.
Actually this would be bad, because the hand would overheat.

Welcome to Hacker News! We understand physics here.

~~~
msandford
> Welcome to Hacker News! We understand physics here.

I know you're not really supposed to make "ha ha me too!" reddit-esque
comments here, but I waited until things had died down! And that gave me a
hearty chuckle.

------
mystickphoenix
I have the original version of the Oros jacket (it was also a Kickstarter). Am
definitely very pleased with it and would buy again. I've also backed the
Kickstarter for this one (specifically, the gloves). My only criticism of the
jacket is that it's somewhat chilly when you're just standing in place. If
you're moving at all, it's super warm. They may have fixed this in the latest
version.

Also, fair to note that I've never felt a need to wear anything more than a
t-shirt underneath the jacket.

------
cmyr
This is super interesting— I have an obsessive streak and haven't been
thrilled about the seemingly slow progress in bringing new materials to use in
the apparel market. I was actually looking into aerogel yesterday (it's
available as a commercial product now, from places like
[http://www.buyaerogel.com](http://www.buyaerogel.com)) and I was curious
about why I hadn't seen it in use for this application yet.

In general, I find it frustrating how difficult it can be to find materials to
experiment with. I can get basic nylons from places like
[http://ripstopbytheroll.com](http://ripstopbytheroll.com), but a lot of more
interesting options (like the stuff by pertex) is really difficult to find by
the yard.

/derail

------
swehner
Funny, they write "Aerogel is considered to be the most effective thermal
conductor on the planet ..." where they mean insulator!

------
makmanalp
This is interesting - I've been looking for the ultimate lightweight
waterproof and warm jacket. So far I've settled on:

[http://www.patagonia.com/us/product/mens-insulated-
torrentsh...](http://www.patagonia.com/us/product/mens-insulated-torrentshell-
jacket?p=83715-0&pcc=1128)

My criteria:

\- I don't want any bulk, puffy jackets are unwieldy to carry

\- I need it to be reasonably waterproof - say I don't get wet for 15-20
minutes in moderate rain. This rules out most softshells.

\- I need it to be warm, just waterproof doesn't cut it in New England
weather. This rules out most rain jackets.

\- If it'll last long or has a good warranty, I can tolerate up to 300-400
bucks

\- I need it in US extra small (34-36" chest)

\- I need it to be breathable, otherwise I get sweaty when I'm riding a bike
for transit

What I don't like about the patagonia one is mostly the latter issue about
breathability. Theoretically it's breathable, and definitely more so than
other jackets I've owned, but it can't keep up. I end up widening the wrist
holes and zipping down a little, which isn't the worst, but wind + sweat gets
REALLY cold after a while. What I really need is pit zips, I think. It also
/could/ be warmer but I think that would ruin the versatility of the jacket -
I don't want it to be unusable in spring and fall.

Looking at this, it seems very close. Seems thin and lightweight (couldn't
find exact measures). They have the pit zips. Removable hood is great. Front
visor seems to extend pretty far. The insulation hopefully is good, though not
proven like primaloft or goose down. No x-small for men, plus the already
loose ski-style fit means this is probably going to not fit small / skinny
guys like me. How it deals with washing and being wet is a question. Warranty
is a question. Quality of stitching / how the material holds up is another
one.

This could be great, or not, too early to tell IMHO. But definitely a
contender!

~~~
oftenwrong
Waterproof and breathable are at odds with each other, no matter what the
manufacturers claim. You would be better served by multiple jackets. When you
need waterproof, wear a rain shell as your outer layer. When you need wind
blocking, wear a wind shell as your outer layer. When you need warmth, wear an
insulated jacket (under a shell as a midlayer if necessary).

------
alfalfasprout
There have been a couple of attempts over the years at using aerogel in high-
end outerwear. Year ago, champion sent a mountaineer to the summit of everest
wearing a full-body aerogel insulated suit.

Two big problems: 1) Aerogel is very fragile and tends to crumble 2) It's
almost too good an insulator

#1 is a big issue for outerwear because any high end jacket used in
mountaineering will see some sh*t.

#2 is another big issue because you sweat and exert a lot of heat during
intense exercise. The jacket design has to incorporate the material
intelligently to allow venting.

I'm curious to see how this oros jacket addresses these issues.

------
dwarman
Back in 1975 I had a leather motorcycle jacket with a similar claim. It had a
center lining of aluminised mylar (?) with some kind of white filament woven
in and out of it. It was indeed very effective, and reduced the bulk of my
inclement weather wear considerably.

------
upofadown
So these guys have invented a flexible aerogel and they need a Kickstarter
before they can get funded to make some jackets? Where did this miracle
material come from? Why are they just talking about clothing? You would think
the world would be beating a path to their door right about now.

~~~
ortusdux
There is a chance that they are using a new aerogel made from cellulose that
is prized for its strength and flexibility.

Article: [http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/2014/07/plant-material-
ali...](http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/2014/07/plant-material-aligns-make-
tough-aerogels-nanocellulose)

Publication:
[http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/wol1/doi/10.1002/anie.2014051...](http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/wol1/doi/10.1002/anie.201405123/abstract)

One thing I find interesting is that 'aerogel' is a category of materials. I
thought it was reserved for the silica based aerogel i've seen countless news
stories about. The wiki definition is "Aerogel is a synthetic porous
ultralight material derived from a gel, in which the liquid component of the
gel has been replaced with a gas". Theoretically, you could market fiberglass
insulation as 'Aerogel insulation' if you suspended the glass fibers in a gel
and then replaced the gel with a gas. The result could have worse insulative
properties that standard fiberglass and yet technically be an aerogel.

