
Clampdown on cold call companies unveiled by government - edward
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31616523
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jblok
My method is as follows:

\- I don't have a landline phone

\- If someone calls my mobile and they aren't in my address book, I just don't
answer.

\- If that number is withheld I especially don't answer

\- If they leave a message I will listen to it and respond if necessary

\- If the number is not whitheld but not in my phone book, I google it, and if
it is a legitimate business, it will usually show a match on the company
website. If I need to I'll call them back e.g. today I had the estate agent
ring, but I didn't have their number saved so I didn't answer. I rang them
back once I had googled their number

~~~
eitally
This is my method, too. The only problem I have is that it seems about half
the companies who cold call sales leads use some software that spoofs a local
exchange, and I _do_ generally answer the phone -- even when it's not one of
my known contacts -- when it originates from my home area code. Not doing so
risks missing calls from contractors, schools, kids' friends, my friends, etc.

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bediger4000
The US Do Not Call list seemed pretty good at cutting the number of cold calls
substantially. The remaining cold calls are clearly illegal (in the US). This
situation seems vaguely like the Tragedy of the Commons to me. I've decided to
listen all the way through the recording speech - these evil psychos can only
have a finite number of interactive response units, so monopolizing one of the
for as long as possible cuts down on the number of calls they can make. I also
attempt to engage the human operators for as long as possible. The evil
psychos making these calls clearly have a smallish number of human operators.
Wasting their time is even more important. I've actually been able to
transport my cell phone to the restroom and flush the toilet in a human
operato's ear several time.

No, I don't think that the human operators deserve civility, manners or any
kind of polite treatment. They know that what they do is at best marginally
legal, and very probably illegal, yet the keep doing it. They've violated the
social contract, not me. They can suffer through whatever they can tolerate.

~~~
wpietri
I have been there, but I decided that the human operators were still human. So
now rather than turning rage-monster at them, I take up their time trying to
persuade them that they deserve a better job, that they don't have to waste
their lives working as a criminal who lies to people for a living.

~~~
bediger4000
They're still human, but they also resist all attempts at my communicating
anything other than "I'm a dope, and I'm falling for your scam." I've tried
asking to be put on no-call lists, asking to be referred to supervisors, and
telling them to quit before they're indicted. I mostly got instant hang ups. A
few times, I got laughter. Now, I waste their time. I keep an expired Visa-
brand gift card in my wallet so I can give them a credit card number that
passes cursory checks.

Everyone should be wasting "Anne from Cardholder Services" time. The victim of
the tragedy should be their commons, not ours. They are the lawbreakers, they
are the deliberate bad actors.

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Doctor_Fegg
_ring ring_

"Hello?"

[recording plays:] "Due to a change to the rules introduced by the government,
you may be entitled to compensation for nuisance calls"

(stolen from
[https://twitter.com/rablivingstone/status/570496682829451264](https://twitter.com/rablivingstone/status/570496682829451264))

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arethuza
I had a call from someone claiming to be investigating nuisance calls, as we
get a lot of nuisance calls I was quite happy to chat to them - then I
realised they were actually selling a service that claims to cut down on
nuisance calls... so I gave up at that point.

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lylebarrere
The Do Not Call database in the US has never been effective because the type
of company making these spammy calls doesn't care if they are breaking the
law. There is no enforcement effort to track them down.

~~~
rayiner
Do you remember what things were like before the Do Not Call database? We
would get one or more marketing calls a day on our home phone (landline).
These days, maybe once a month.

~~~
lylebarrere
I've been on it for years as well as the DNC database for caregivers of
elderly patients with diminished capacity and I receive more than 5 calls per
day.

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kodis
It seems as though at least for smart phones this could be easily solved
through technological means similar to those used for screening email,
something along the lines of a spam classification system.

I envision my phone having a white list of known good numbers, which would be
allowed to cause my phone to ring like it does now; a black list of known bad
numbers, which would be immediately dropped; and a catch-all handler for all
other numbers, which would send the call to voice mail for easy manual
classification into either of the other categories.

~~~
bkor
Why go for the technical option is the legal one is far more effective?

In my country hospitals (and so on call) from an "unknown" number. So blocking
that is a bit dangerous. There's a general "do not cold call" list and if you
get a cold call while being on that the company behind it can get a hefty fine
per call that they make.

There's an government organization which checks if companies abide to this
(and a few other things). They seem to enjoy going after companies and fining
them. Which is probably why I don't get any cold calls.

Note: Obviously there are all kinds of rules, etc. E.g. once you add yourself
to the cold call list, there's 6 week grace period (as companies are allowed
to only update their do-not-call list every so often). Though at the same
time, even if you're not on the country's do not call list you can still ask
to be put on the list for the company calling you. It is mandatory for a
company to do that. Else the company will get a fine. There's different rules
for companies which have or had a business relationship with you.

~~~
kodis
While this will vary from country to country, at least here in the US there
are several situations where the legal means are not more effective. The main
one is scammers who just don't care, either because they're running a "hit and
run" type of operation or because they're operating from overseas. Then there
are classes of phone calls which are (again, at least in the US) exempt from
the legal "do not call" rules: politicians making campaign calls, and survey
firms, which the politicians use to determine who to bother calling. It's a
nice loophole that they've constructed for themselves. Luckily it's only a
problem for a few month every other year.

~~~
wpietri
The US regulators are working hard at it, but it's a challenging problem. The
robocalls I all get now are very good at masking where they are from; the
humans you talk to know not to give away the name or location of the company.

For those interested in learning more, the FTC had a robocall summit a few
years back and they recorded the webcast: [http://www.ftc.gov/news-
events/events-calendar/2012/10/roboc...](http://www.ftc.gov/news-
events/events-calendar/2012/10/robocalls-all-rage-ftc-summit)

There was a lot of good technical detail on why it's now hard to track these
people down.

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DanBC
This article does not mention the Telephone Preference Service. It's a useful
step to take.

The article doesn't mention the fact that most mobile providers in the UK have
free numbers that you can forward spam texts to.

There's also a problem with a gap in the law that allows "genuine market
researcher" to contact you to -- this loophole is used by some companies as
lead generation.

~~~
ColinWright
I belong to the TPS, and I still get a dozen cold calls a day. When I ask
where they got my details from they simply say it came up on their system.
When I ask for their details they hang up. When I call 1471 it's an unlisted
number.

Currently there is no viable way to prevent these calls, or to get off their
lists.

~~~
mike-cardwell
Block withheld numbers?

~~~
SmellyGeekBoy
That's what I did. Went from 1-2 nuisance calls per day (I mainly work from
home) to none at all. It's just a shame BT charge money for this service.

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mootothemax
Is the only real solution to only accept calls from a phone number whitelist?

The regulatory problem I can't work out how to solve is that of foreign
companies attempting to scam people, e.g. the variations on "I'm calling from
Microsoft, your computer has a virus..."

If you can only take action against companies based in your country, what's
the next step?

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Hates_
So when does a "customer development call" become a cold call? As a small
startup trying to talk to potential customers how does this affect me? All
these books on startups talk about picking up the phone and talking to people.

~~~
mhurron
Did you have a prior relationship with these people? Did they somehow indicate
they would be involved in your marketing actions?

No? Then it's probably a cold call and you're just annoying people.

~~~
AndrewKemendo
_No? Then it 's probably a cold call and you're just annoying people._

Sorry but this is naiive. Cold calling works, and not because you are bugging
people. You know that "prior relationship" you mention? Well it has to start
somewhere and a call is as good as any.

~~~
wpietri
If your definition of "works" is "is rewarding for the perp", then sure all
sorts of things "work". Theft, fraud, and extortion, for example, all work
wonderfully well -- for the mafia. Our laws are mainly about things that
"work", because if they didn't work, people wouldn't do them enough to matter.

Your mistake is not accounting for the negative externalities. Cold calling
and spam both can "work" for the sending party because it lets them find the
very small proportion of people who they can sucker into whatever they're
pushing. But they impose costs upon other people too, and for them spamming
and cold calling definitely doesn't work. Which is why we took the time to
outlaw both of them in the US.

~~~
AndrewKemendo
_sucker into whatever they 're pushing_

This is the same "If you build it they will come" logic that doom so many
startups. The reality is that even if you have a perfect solution to someone's
problem you still have to go sell it to them. Uber started with cold calls, so
did many other successful startups. It's the lowest barrier to entry there is.

Lets also differentiate between b2b cold calls which is what I have in mind
mostly, and b2c cold calling. I think the latter is probably magnitudes less
effective and more "sleazy" than the former and there are better ways of
targeting advertising at individual consumers at this point.

~~~
wpietri
It is the same logic only if you believe there is no possible way to sell
people other than cold calls. Otherwise it is _different_ logic. But hey, nice
straw man. Maybe you'll feel better if you attack it some more?

Your point that cold calling works is repetitive, and was previously
addressed.

And of course you believe that the thing you did/want to do is less sleazy.
All people doing sleazy things believe that whatever they're doing is in fact
ok, or at least justifiable. That's what we humans are really good at:
justifying our own particular bullshit.

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dcminter
We don't have a legitimate direct marketing industry. We just have a direct
marketing lobby, hence the verbiage appeasing them.

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choffee
Is it election time already?

