
Which comes first, the product or the marketing? - bdfh42
http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2009/02/which-comes-first-the-product-or-the-marketing.html
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demallien
I think that Seth is trying to say that there are important parts of
marketing, such as market research, needs analysis, product definition, etc
etc that he thinks should be done before the development of a product. It
would have been nice if he had said so explicitly in his blog - he has a lot
of readers that aren't trained in marketing.

Personally I'm dubious - Apple certainly never does marketing before product
development. Even just looking at what happens in the company where I work, I
notice that the innovations that really open up new markets and new revenue
for us always come from the developpers. The marketing group just aren't aware
enough of the technical limitations and opportunities that are out there -
they either push for products that just can't be done with current tech, or
they simply follow what their competitors are doing.

Of course, in a company that does marketing properly, which to my mind means
including experienced engineers in the team, you could probably get some
pretty good results - it's just that I've never worked in a company that does
that.

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profgubler
Apple is an interesting example and I can see why you think that, but I think
Apple does do marketing before they make the product. I don't have an inside
source at Apple, but I am sure they are taking feedback from current products
as well as researching competition when they are deciding what to make next.

I think they are constantly trying to listen to their customers, and then wow.
Sometimes they even try and show customers what they really want even when
they haven't asked for it. That is why I think they are successful. They do
their research to find out the real problem and not just the symptom of the
problem.

Some might not call that marketing but I do.

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jacquesm
Making something that isn't binary into a binary discussion is a great way to
start controversy but it isn't very productive.

The truth is: Products Evolve, and marketing (which is a product in and of
itself) evolves right along.

Marketing is nowadays seen as 'ramming stuff people don't need down their
throat', whereas it used to mean to build a lasting relationship with your
current and future customers.

Spending money on marketing a product that nobody needs or wants to me is
wasted effort, but that's probably an idealistic point of view.

Still, it seems to me that marketing good products is an evolutionary process,
where both the marketing and the product continue to evolve in lockstep.

Case in point: Sony Walkman -> product came first, then the marketing,
subsequently we entered the digital age and now everybody and their brother is
buying Ipods and other digital mp3 players.

There is an unbroken chain between the product development for the walkman
(portable personal audio), initially tailoired to a single individuals needs
all the way to the current generation of flash based personal audio products.

That same chain exists between the marketing efforts that have gone into all
personal audio products.

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aneesh
Seth, the marketer says: "If someone comes to you with a 'great' product that
just needs some marketing, the game is probably already over."

The hacker says: "If someone comes to you with a 'great' marketing plan that
just needs a product, the game is probably already over."

Can we stop taking entire disciplines for granted, and acknowledge the fact
that all ventures need to focus on both these aspects? (to varying degrees, of
course)

~~~
brlewis
There's an element of truth to what Seth said. Sometimes a great product is
too early -- it won't be able to achieve product/market fit until years later.
But the untruth in what Seth said is that sometimes you can't understand the
market for a product until you put the product out there.

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pchristensen
There hasn't been a Godin on the front page for a while, and even though this
isn't the greatest thing he's written, this is the kind of post I could read
every week or two from him. Thanks bdfh42, and thanks to everyone who has
passed on the last several dozen posts from SG.

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froo
_As Jon points out, the Prius was developed after the marketing thinking was
done. Jones Soda, too. In fact, just about every successful product or service
is the result of smart marketing thinking first, followed by a great product
that makes the marketing story come true._

Ok, so yeah, lets call a spade a spade, he's talking about positioning.

Actively marketing your product is fine, but you still actually need to have a
product or you may position yourself out of the market as Vaporware.

Exhibit A) Duke Nukem Forever.

I rest my case.

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10ren
You can't analyse a market that doesn't exist yet.

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dominik
To "Which comes first, the product or the marketing?"

I answer: Yes.

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Allocator2008
I suppose if there is no market it does not matter how great the product is.
Take the laser disc. It was pretty cool, but it just never really penetrated
the market. So maybe one does not have to "begin marketing" before developing,
but one at least needs to research the market enough to make sure there is a
market for the product being developed.

