
Intel-backed Finnish startup has turned laptop design upside down - Nsjs
http://nordic.businessinsider.com/eve-tech-crowdsourcing-2016-10/
======
AdmiralAsshat
So it's another Surface-style hybrid? Color me skeptical.

I have an SP4 for work, and I still don't think we're there yet. Touchscreen
is clunky, and I get phantom touchpresses on it all the time. Outputting to
multiple monitors is clunky, and when I have to disconnect the SP4 from its
docking station, the resolution gets screwed up due to varying DPIs between
the Surface screen and the output screens.

Just give me a better clamshell laptop, please. I know the artists would love
a detachable tablet screen that they can draw on, but I don't need it.

~~~
this-dang-guy
Yeah, as far as innovation is concerned, they are about as innovative as
lenovo.

I'm sure nobody is especially worried. I see a really bad windows-based ipad
knockoff, and a tacky surface knockoff.

Not sure how that's worth the hyperbole there.

I _own_ a surface. It's a terrible form factor full of attractive but poor-
performing features. Someone _does_ need to improve the laptop (it's my number
1 go-to device), but these guys aren't it.

------
zzalpha
The article makes a lot of hay about how they reach out to "the community" to
get their feedback on product ideas... an idea which comes straight out of the
world of Agile and, in principle, seems like a nice idea.

But imagine what would've happened if Apple took that approach with the first
generation iPhone. How many people would've insisted they needed physical
keys, or a stylus?

The reality is, sometimes the user doesn't actually know what they need, and
that's where a great product visionary can step in and do something truly
innovative.

~~~
iKirin
I partially agree - something like the the iPhone would likely still have
worked in a crowd developed background as the people there seem to be into the
latest tech and searching for improvements. And the iPhone had nice things
like a full qwerty keyboard instead of T9 for typing and similar.

Yes the average users usually don't know what they want but enthusiasts are
easier to convince and are more willing to take risks and innovate.

~~~
zzalpha
_Yes the average users usually don 't know what they want but enthusiasts are
easier to convince and are more willing to take risks and innovate._

Enthusiasts are exactly the wrong people you want to talk to if you're looking
to build a mass market consumer device. Enthusiasts want keyboards, for
example (see the other reply to my original comment), whereas the mass market
seems very happy without them (likely because they're far more likely to
consume content than originate it in large quantities).

Now, in this case, maybe a device for enthusiasts is exactly what they're
trying to build. But if that's true, I'm not sure why they care about a device
that's "budget-priced".

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noir_lord
[http://eve-tech.com/](http://eve-tech.com/)

Since BI's website is broken for me again and I just wanted to know what it
was about.

A crowd sourced laptop is an interesting idea though I wonder how they balance
what gets included since everyone wants different things it'll kinda average
out.

~~~
pjc50
Specs (so far): [http://eve.community/t/eve-v-confirmed-specs-1-cpu-ram-
stora...](http://eve.community/t/eve-v-confirmed-specs-1-cpu-ram-storage-
connectivity/1997)

I can't really see the point of Thunderbolt on a non-Mac device - won't that
just add a substantial chunk to the required IP licensing costs?

Overall I'm curious about cost. I'd be very surprised if it was cheaper than a
corresponding Surface.

~~~
kevinherron
TB3 is Intel, not Apple. And the point is that it has super high bandwidth,
enough that you can dock TB3 laptops with a single cable for all your monitors
and peripherals.

~~~
takingflac
Also external graphics cards bit expensive right now but I see laptops being
able to convert into a powerful gaming pc/workstation just by being docked.

------
executesorder66
I love their goals, and will be keeping a close eye on them as time goes by.

If they really want to make a difference, they should open source their
firmware, and use coreboot/libreboot. I've never understood what manufacturers
had to gain from keeping their firmware closed source.

~~~
acdha
Gains:

1\. No issues with licensing for third-party components or drivers, which is
most of them.

2\. Reduced risk of source updates leaking news about new products and
features

3\. No need to spend time managing an open-source release process, ensuring
that sensitive data isn't leaked outside, etc. Just the legal review for
release & accepting contributions is not trivial.

4\. No support requests from people who installed someone's fork with a bug in
it.

5\. Perceived less helpful to someone in a country with lax intellectual
property enforcement making a knock-off device and undercutting you

No matter how much you like open-source, there are real costs. You can make
the argument that outside contributions will balance those out but that's hard
for something like this because much of the cost is up front and all of the
benefits are hypothetical future contributions and in the case of firmware
relatively few people have the skills or interest to contribute. I might make
the argument that the fixes you'd get are probably less frequent but higher
value (thinking of e.g. sysadmins fixing difficult in-the-wild bugs which
aren't easy to reproduce) but that's pure speculation.

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yuhong
I think I once read that typical profit margins for PCs is the net margins are
in the single digit range and the gross margins are about 20% over that. I was
wondering what would happen if Intel bought Compaq back in 1991 (when Rod
Canion and Jim Harris was still at Compaq) for a while now. Intel has a high
profit margin, and Compaq had higher profit margin back in 1991. This also
reminds me that big box stores typically requires a higher profit margin than
small stores.

~~~
Tantonos
Intel has super high margins. As they basically sell a commodity. Cause are
nowhere close to manufacture as what they are now

~~~
addicted
Thats the opposite of what selling commodity does.

Selling commodities means low profit margins. So if Intel has high profit
margins and is selling a commodity it's despite that not because of it.

------
ChuckMcM
Basically some submarine marketing to get there indiegogo campaign kicked off,
but it was interesting to me that they "crowd sourced" the design and ended up
with what is essentially a Surface Pro type unit.

But for me the interesting bit is following the whole evolution of the laptop
thing.

A long time ago (March 2009) I bought something called a "Touchbook" from a
company called Always Innovating. Its features were, detachable keyboard
(additional battery in keyboard), ARM processor, touch screen, Ubuntu OS
(later Android). Desktop "flipped" with the screen orientation. It had a lot
to like about it and showed the potential, but it was clunky, had horrible
battery life, and the resistive touchscreen was not reliable (think a Chumby
with a 10" screen rather than something more futuristic)

Then the iPad came out and everyone assumed "tablets were the next big thing".
But people still wanted to type and not give up half the screen to an on
screen keyboard. I've got a couple of blue tooth keyboards (one Apple, one
Logitech) that I used with the iPad (one even has an ESC key :-)) but the
carry the keyboard + tablet, oh the keyboard isn't charged thing was a pain.

Microsoft did the Surface, which was soundly derided by Apple's Phil Schiller
(I know it was his job to deride all iPad competitors) And then Apple when
ahead and kind of bought into the theme with the iPad pro.

So what are the variables?

    
    
       Keyboard detachable/fixed
          * Detachable seems to be the current answer
       Keyboard more than keys (battery)?
          * Still mixed, Surface Book yes, iPad Pro/SP4 no.
       Screen Size ?
          * 13" SBook
          * 12" SP4/iPad Pro
          * 10" iPad Pro
       Full OS / Mobile OS
          * iPad iOS
          * SPro Windows 10
       Stylus?
          * Mostly yes (iPad Pro, Surface)
          * Mostly no (third party "2:1" computers)
       Screen?
          * HiDPI screen (pretty much all of them)
       Cellular?
          * Surface no
          * iPad yes.
    

While it is expensive for me while Microsoft and Apple explore the design
space :-) I am enjoying the innovation. At some point I wonder if Google will
want to play in this space, or if they will try to partner with Microsoft and
be the "mobile OS" answer for Surface.

------
pj_mukh
I've never liked the surface style flimsy flipbook keyboards. Otherwise the
form-factor is perfect. There's gotta be a better alternative to that
keyboard.

~~~
this-dang-guy
I have one, it replaced my laptop when the Surface Pro 4 came out.

Upside - the kickstand is awesome, the microSD reader is in a good spot, the
battery life is ok, the speakers are ok, the USB3 is in a good spot.

The downside. That keyboard is the worst. You are 100% right. I've typed many
thousands of words on it now, and while it's comfortable, it's only good on a
desk or desk-type surface. Try it on a lap, and it's basically worthless (like
the kickstand).

The pen is trash. The pen stopped working, was replaced, stopped working, was
replaced, stopped again (and has been clipped to my desk since). The
touchscreen goes out regularly. The wifi is crappy, constantly bouncing. The
bandwidth to the microSD is terrible (it's a USB device internally, and slow).
The power adapter is a good idea, but I have no idea what they were thinking.
If it's cable up, it heats up at the point where it bends. If it's cable-down,
it bends super sharply at the desk and heats up there. The light is always
white, so no charging feedback. The USB port on the power adapter can't charge
anything, including a phone, while the surface is on. Otherwise it keeps
dropping out and shows 'plugged in, battery' back and forth every few seconds.

So yeah - spare me another POS like this.

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JMCQ87
Does it run Linux? Otherwise I don't want it. ;)

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ungzd
What's special in their design? It's standard Windows tablet with attachable
keyboard.

~~~
kirduchah
It's designed by end users no?

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mobiuscog
Kickstands are great and all, but I want a laptop to work well _on my lap_.

~~~
jacquesm
That's not without health risks due to the heat given off by the computer.

[http://techin.oureverydaylife.com/danger-having-laptop-
lap-1...](http://techin.oureverydaylife.com/danger-having-laptop-
lap-1144.html)

Occasional use is no problem at all but if you intend to use a laptop in your
lap for extended periods make sure it has a side vent and a back exit or that
it uses so little power that it does not get warm.

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gravypod
It's a great idea but it seems like they went for the messed up arrow keys.

For a programmer I'd say the arrow keys are one of the most important parts of
the keyboard.

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AntonyTerence
Finally something that gives users what they actually want.

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eugeniqa
Users contribute to the product development? This idea is on the surface, he-
he-h! Yes, on the surface :) And I would be glad and happy to have such a
device like Eve V. Hope the shipment to Ukraine will be available.

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meowschwitz
if they are using windows, they"ve already lost.

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Singeralion
Is it a pockemon Eevee? :))

~~~
iKirin
I don't think it's an Eevee - it's just an Eve V :D

