
Chronicle of a Death Foretold - kumarski
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/09/201291872137626701.html?utm_content=automate&utm_campaign=Trial6&utm_source=NewSocialFlow&utm_term=plustweets&utm_medium=MasterAccount
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kafkaesque
Before the Law stands a door-keeper. A man from the country comes up to this
door-keeper and begs for admission to the Law. But the door-keeper tells him
that he cannot grant him admission now. The man ponders this and then asks if
he will be allowed to enter later, 'Possibly', the door-keeper says, 'but not
now'. Since the door leading to the Law is standing open as always and the
door-keeper steps aside, the man bends down to look inside through the door.
Seeing this, the door-keeper laughs and says: 'If it attracts you so much, go
on and try to get in without my permission, But you must realise that I am
powerful. And I'm only the lowest door-keeper. At every hall there is another
door-keeper, each one more powerful than the last. Even I cannot bear to look
at the third one'.

~~~
xyzzy123
This man was kidnapped and tortured without trial.

I did not downvote you, but somehow I feel that your comment does not do
justice to the plain reality of the situation. Which is decidedly not
allegorical and not abstract at all.

~~~
kafkaesque
Have you read The Trial? Josef K was arrested basically without trial, as
well.

In fact, I read this article and I see many parallels to the novel by Franz
Kafka.

The reason I quoted it was because the following (from the article) reminded
me of it:

"Latif sank deeper into depression and hopelessness as the futility of the
legal efforts towards winning his freedom became clear. In one of his last
letters to his lawyer he tells him: 'Do whatever you wish to do, the issue [of
my defence] is over', and includes with it a message of farewell written both
to him personally as well to the world at large: 'With all my pains, I say
goodbye to you and the cry of death should be enough for you. A world power
failed to safeguard peace and human rights and from saving me. I will do
whatever I am able to do to rid myself of the imposed death on me at any
moment of this prison... the soul that insists to end it all and leave this
life which is no longer anymore a life'".

Josef K thought the law was accessible and would protect him, because he was
innocent--so there is nothing to fear, right? Wrong. The excerpt from above is
taken from a central piece of The Trial--the parable "Before the Law", which
was a conversation Josef K had with the priest.

Franz Kafka studied law. He thought it was made to confuse the layman and that
the law was not blind and balanced, as the statue so famously demonstrates,
but rather has wings and shifts.

Though The Trial is a work of fiction and Latif is a real man, when I first
read this book, it helped me realise and gain more compassion towards those
who have been treated unfairly by the law.

~~~
xyzzy123
Yeah, I have. I understand your point, but respectfully disagree.

Analogies to The Trial produce a sense of crushing inevitability, whereas I
believe the system can and should be changed.

------
pixelmonkey
Completely coincidentally, I just bought the novel by Gabriel García Márquez,
"Chronicle of a Death Foretold" (in Spanish: "Crónica de una muerte
anunciada") today.

It's a short novel by the Columbian author that I had read ~10 years ago, and
thought of it again today when reflecting on the nature of journalism. The
novel is a commentary on the notion of "truth". Its plot involves a murder in
a small town in Columbia, and is told in a journalistic style, where you, the
reader, learn new facts that reshape the perception of the "whole story" as
the story itself unfolds through the narration. As the novel unfolds, you
start to question the veracity of the facts presented to you, causing you to
question whether the "true reality" of what happened is even knowable.

~~~
tincholio
> It's a short novel by the Columbian author

ColOmbian ;)

~~~
jordigh
The spelling difference doesn't change the fact that this is the same word:
land of Columbus. This was an early proposed name for the country of the
United States, Columbia, today most famously personified in the Columbia
Pictures logo (and I think in the Statue of Liberty, but I'm not sure).

I kind of wish sometimes that the US had used that name instead of
appropriating the name "America" from the rest of the new world.

------
jjoe
Poignant end to the article: "America, what has happened to you?"

~~~
alexeisadeski3
Please don't take this as a defense of everything America has done:

The US is currently at war with both Al Qaida and the Taliban. Members of
these organizations which are captured are allowed to be held as POWs until
hostilities are formally ended.

What else is the US supposed to do? These men didn't necessarily commit crimes
- prisoners of war are simply fighting for their country or side.

Release them? What about the prisoners who are 'high risk'?

Try them? You're not really supposed to charge prisoners of war with a crime.
I mean I guess that you can, but why? The US is still at war with them.
They'll have to be exchanged for US prisoners eventually (the Taliban have one
still, if memory serves).

~~~
phaus
>What else is the US supposed to do? These men didn't necessarily commit
crimes - prisoners of war are simply fighting for their country or side.

This shows a deep misunderstanding of the situation. The Taliban and Al Qaida
were always criminals. Its not like they are simply members of the Afghan and
Iraqi armies that were present before the United States entered, they are a
small minority of religious extremists that that are attempting to impose
their idiotic beliefs on other nations.

With that in mind, those who are in Guantanamo that are suspected members of
the Taliban and Al Qaida should not be held indefinitely without charges or
trial. If we have evidence, we should prosecute them. If not, we should
release them after a reasonable amount of time.

I'm a former Soldier and I know how much it would suck to know in your heart
that a person you detained, was in fact a terrorist, yet they walk due to a
lack of evidence. However, if we don't observe the rule of law, there won't be
an America to defend anymore.

I'm inclined to believe that quite a few of the people in Guantanamo are
guilty. But we also know for a fact that certain groups, such as bounty
hunters, were shipping lots of innocent folks off to prison simply for being
in the wrong place at the wrong time. We need to start looking for these
innocents and set them free in a timely manner. We already have enough blood
on our hands.

~~~
alexeisadeski3
There is no established rule of law regarding so-called criminal enemy
combatants (as the Am Qaida detainees are classified - Taliban detainees are
not thus considered). Insofar as I am aware, the US could execute them en
masse perfectly legally.

The Taliban detainees have always been provided full legal POW rights. This
means that they must he released after hostilities have ended.

I may well he misinformed. If so please correct me.

~~~
phaus
I agree the U.S. could definitely "get away" with killing them all, I'm
speaking more about the intent behind the rule of law.

In my humble opinion, "after hostilities have ended" is too weak of a
standard. I'm still a young man, yet I would be surprised if hostilities ended
before I die of natural causes. Perhaps we can argue that we didn't know
better before this conflict, but now that we do we should make some changes.

I was not aware that the Taliban were given POW rights. That was an extremely
poor decision but I guess I stand corrected on that issue.

I don't really have a solution, I'm just weary of watching the slowest train-
wreck in the history of the world. We should be better than this.

~~~
lawnchair_larry
> We should be better than this.

Well, the US _did_ vote for the guy who said he would close Guantanamo. So it
would seem most are better than this, but not the ones who matter.

------
sneak
Who's paying the salaries of these prison guards?

Who's funding the US government agencies that appealed his release?

Read your paycheck carefully, and check kayak.com regularly.

You can stop any time you wish.

~~~
e40
_Who 's paying the salaries of these prison guards?_

I'm pretty sure the people working that particular prison are soldiers.

------
ysph
Ugh. The United States justice system is beyond horribly broken. It is
despicable. America, we have failed you. Super Bowl commercials be damned.

------
cookrn
I hadn't heard of this story prior to today, and was definitely sad to read
it. Interesting that it's being posted now though it's from 2012.

------
lafar6502
And of course someone will pay for this some day. Someone totally innocent,
who just happens to be in a wrong place at a wrong time. Just like most of
these prisoners.

------
dror
At a minimum, sign [http://www.change.org/petitions/president-obama-close-
detent...](http://www.change.org/petitions/president-obama-close-detention-
facility-at-guantanamo-bay-3)

------
squozzer
Of all of the sad things I read in that article, the phrase, "the allegations
against him must be taken as accurate if they are claimed to be so by the
government."

Some might call it presumption of guilt.

------
powertower
At its peak Guantanamo Bay has 750 detainees and prisoners. Now it's 150.

I kind of have a hard time taking anything said about the conditions inside
from the detainees at face value. They have every reason to exaggerate and lie
- and no reason to tell the truth...

Because comparing it to the types of prisons in the 3rd world that do have
truly horrible living conditions and real absolute torture, is just dishonest.
In most of those places you don't even get paper to write on, nor have a
personal lawyer, nor get special religious treatment, nor have media walk-
throughs, nor doctors on call 24/7, nor TVs, and so on and on.

~~~
paul_f
What's wrong with what this commenter said? So we downvote opinions we don't
like? What happened to the free exchange of ideas? HN comments section
apparently is becoming a echo chamber and quickly losing all relevance.

~~~
Myrmornis
Yes, defending Guantanamo in any way is disgusting and that is obvious to
intelligent people in most parts of the world. Some views are so abhorrent per
se that down voting may occur even if the comment is internally consistent,
doesn't personally insult anyone, etc.

~~~
powertower
> millions of people are being tortured at Guantanamo

My argument against this consisted of:

1\. Factual figures on detainee numbers, which proves Guantanamo had an
incredibly small head-count from the start, and has also been downsized
significantly since then.

2\. Factual representation of conditions at Guantanamo that show nothing to
support claims of wholescale torture (aside from a few detainees being
isolated).

3\. A logical assertion that detainees have no reason to tell the truth and
every reason to exaggerate and lie.

And I did not even bother with the fact that some of these detainees are so
radical and violent that their own countries (that are opposed to the USA)
DON'T WANT THEM BACK.

Your counter-argument is what's abhorrent... That you would call your closed-
minded group-think emotional response an intellectual one.

Your entire position is "I support the discussion of ideas and point-of-views
... as long as they agree with me".

