
Weighing the Evidence on Exercise - rams
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/18/magazine/18exercise-t.html
======
latortuga
"Take in fewer calories than you burn, put yourself in negative energy
balance, lose weight,” says Braun, who has been studying exercise and weight
loss for years."

Weight loss is not this simple - this kind of article enrages me. Everyone
wants it to be an easy equation. Low carbohydrate/high fat diets are wildly
successful despite not having to monitor calories. All calories are not
created equal and simply eating less does not lead to long term weight loss,
it leads to hunger.

I know many have talked about this idea on HN before, but in case you missed
it, an excellent, eye-opening read is Gary Taubes' book, Good Calories Bad
Calories - [http://www.amazon.com/Good-Calories-Bad-Controversial-
Scienc...](http://www.amazon.com/Good-Calories-Bad-Controversial-
Science/dp/1400033462)

~~~
Darmani
Yes, burning fat really is that simple. A lot of this gets muddied from other
factors, such as how various diets affect body composition, water retention,
and appetite (supposedly much of the success of low carb diets comes from
increased protein intake, which reduces hunger), and weight is hardly the only
aspect of health, but the basic energy in minus energy out equation is true
for humans.

See [http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/is-a-calorie-a-
cal...](http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/is-a-calorie-a-calorie.html)

~~~
ericb
Yeah, the oversimplification sounds great, except it is a homeostatic
mechanism, people extract and expend calories at different rates, and appetite
responds differently to different foods. Energy in vs. energy out matters less
if certain types of food aren't sating hunger effectively. First you say it
"is that simple" then go on to say "except for..." and list exclusions.

Whenever I feel unsympathetic, I imagine trying to "breath less" for several
years.

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superjared
The article explains a basic tenet of metabolism: balancing caloric intake
with exercise is the key to weight loss. However, it does not mention much
about the health benefits of exercise nor the importance of eating healthy
foods, which is unfortunate because one's health is more important than simply
losing weight.

~~~
mberning
I agree. I think many people make the mistake of looking at exercise as simply
a means to an end: losing weight. It has so many other benefits like helping
to control blood pressure, improved mood, etc. To me these are more important
than simply maintaining a pleasing number on a scale.

I'm overweight according to the BMI and other measures, but I strength train
and do cardio regularly. My blood pressure, cholesterol, triglycerides,
testosterone, etc. are all perfect.

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chegra84
"“In general, exercise by itself is pretty useless for weight loss,” says Eric
Ravussin, a professor at the Pennington Biomedical Research Center in Baton
Rouge, La., and an expert on weight loss. It’s especially useless because
people often end up consuming more calories when they exercise."

Study, have shown that if your energy expenditure and take-in is the same as
dieting, exercise can produce the same results.

I have this hypothesis that it is psychologically easier to exercise off
weight than to restrict your diet below maintenance.

Reason why: 1\. Less willpower for exercise. Once you are on the treadmill
it's easy to continue, while for dieting you will need to control yourself for
at least 8hrs. So, comparing 15mins of control for getting started to exercise
to 8hrs of control to diet, exercise significantly better.

2.Exercise release endorphins, ie you will be happier after exercising.
Dieting leaves you irritable and tired.

3\. Exercise builds metabolism, so you will burn at rest[not as much as they
would have you believe in some books]. Dieting slow metabolism.

4\. At moderately high intensity exercise can reduce appetite.

Drawbacks to exercise: 1) Takes alot of time. Walking at 4mph for 60mins only
burns 340 calories for a 150pound man[or something like that]. So, in essence
3hrs of exercise by walk a day will burn 2 pounds a week[provided that you
follow a maintenance diet]

~~~
jamesbritt
Re Will power: I've stopped buying crap food (with some rare allowances). If I
do not have it in the house, I cannot eat it. The willpower issue comes up
once a week while shopping, and I'm not in the mood for junk food while
shopping, so it's easier to not buy it than it would be to not eat it were it
in the house.

Exercise, though, requires much more deliberate action, and more than once a
week. Once I'm out running it's OK, and keeping going is not a problem. It's
the initial choice of go running or sit on my ass and drink coffee in the
morning. Dicking around seems to have a a magical sway over me. :(

Despite having almost completely slagged off on exercise over the last few
months I'm still just below 180lbs (down from 210 last summer), and I'm sure
this is because of my diet. I still need to exercise least my body turn to
complete goo, but for weight loss I find it much easier to just not have bad
food in the house.

~~~
scott_s
What about running in the evening? I find it requires much more will power to
work out in the morning because I'm tired, and I have a bunch of things I feel
like I should be doing. But after I'm done working for the day, it feels good
to do something physical.

~~~
lutorm
I also find it very difficult to run in the morning, not necessarily because I
feel like I need to get to work but because I just feel very stiff and tired
when I get out of bed. Maybe it's come with age, and maybe it wouldn't be such
a problem if I was in better shape, but at my current half-ass shape it's
quite a hurdle.

~~~
jamesbritt
"Maybe it's come with age, and maybe it wouldn't be such a problem if I was in
better shape, but at my current half-ass shape it's quite a hurdle."

FWIW: My 50+ sorry ass wasn't so keen on exercising either, but I started by
just going walking in the morning,and not trying to be too ambitious. Found
some good audio books to listen to. After a while I felt good about that, felt
my energy improving, and moved to running. At first it was more walking than
running, but I would just push myself a bit, making a game of it. Before long
the walking/running ration switched.

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jules
Is there good, accessible _science_ (not the opinion of an "expert") about

\- What kind of exercise is good for what (e.g. short intense or long light)?

\- How quickly does performance increase? What causes better performance?

\- Why and how quickly does muscle tissue form?

\- Does lung volume increase?

\- What happens to your heart?

\- What happens to your veins?

\- How much exercise?

\- How does eating affect exercise? E.g. if you are losing weight, will your
body still make roughly as much new muscle tissue?

\- Why is it that I get sore more quickly and run more slowly when I haven't
eaten enough, even in the first few minutes of running when all the energy is
still coming from stuff stored in muscles?

I think the answers to these questions would be very valuable to individuals
as well as society as a whole.

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alexyim
It seems like the article is making exercise more mysterious than it is. From
what I've read, scientists seem to be more knowledgeable than the state of
confusion this article is giving out.

The benefit of exercise in terms of weight loss is that it increases your
resting metabolic rate (RMR). So the greatest caloric expenditure is often not
during the exercise activity itself. I used to think that it's impossible to
burn off the calories eaten from a burger. Now I know better.

Of course, exercise is only effective if your diet complements it. It's not
either or, it's both. Both contribute to a net caloric deficit or surplus,
creating weight change.

They also don't go into enough detail about the types of exercises. HIIT and
weightlifting are particularly effective towards increasing RMR.

~~~
c0riander
I think a great deal of the confusion the article is conveying is not so much
about the effect of exercise on metabolism and body composition, but rather
its effect on appetite. One of the reasons that we're starting to hear obesity
specialists back away from advocating the "moderate-vigorous exercise" as part
of a weight-loss plan is because of the things this article brings up: in some
people (mostly women), starting an exercise regime spikes appetite and makes
it extremely difficult to stick to a calorie-controlled/restricted diet. Thus,
even if the RMR increases, it seems the body is insisting calorie intake
increase as well -- and I think that's where the confusion they are portraying
is mostly stemming from: is it responsible to advocate moderate-vigorous
exercise to the obese as part of a weight-loss plan, or is that setting them
up to fail? (It seems clear that exercise as part of a weight-maintenance
program tends to be beneficial.)

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dreeves
Somewhat orthogonal but apropos:

[http://lesswrong.com/lw/am/how_a_pathological_procrastinor_c...](http://lesswrong.com/lw/am/how_a_pathological_procrastinor_can_lose_weight/)

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tokenadult
I think after reading all the comments, I still have one more bit to add. The
submitted article refers to GENERAL effects of exercise that are observable in
current population studies. It does seem to be well established that human
beings are adapted to balance their eating with their activity, thus human
beings who don't live in conditions of food scarcity may not be likely to lose
weight if they increase their level of physical activity.

That said about the general tendency, my observation of the effect of exercise
is that it makes me more cheerful, and allows me to substitute the pleasure of
fresh air and sunshine and movement for the pleasure of eating. So at least on
my part, I have been able to reduce weight (I didn't have a lot to lose at my
heaviest) by being more consistent about exercise. These days, there are times
when I feel a vague discomfort that I might formerly have treated by eating a
snack that I now treat by talking a walk outside. More exercise AND less
eating is sure to result in weight loss over time.

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jamesmontalvo3
"Take in fewer calories than you burn, put yourself in negative energy
balance, lose weight"

Join a fitness/nutrition website to provide accountability (and to educate you
that the presumably healthy food you're eating is actually highly caloric).

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gluu
Analyzing my own eating habits, I think that the light, constant exercise
factor is representative of regulated behavior that causes people to maintain
weight. That is, exercising regularly is a reflection of a person's lifestyle
(not a stressed out entrepreneur) that coincides with maintaining a healthy
weight, as well as helping a person regulate their behavior (the good feelings
and satiation make it easier to not have events where you eat crap).

------
Maro
Exercise a lot. It's easy to reach Marathon levels, and I guarantee you'll
loose weight.

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Aron
I find it interesting how quickly the body appears to decondition when you
stop exercising. I suspect the consensus is that this is intended to lower
basal metabolism, which would make one better adapted to a food scarce
environment. However, if you consume high quantities of food, the body still
deconditions. It ignores this data.

So what is the true reason why the body prefers a state of lower conditioning?
Even if I lazed around for months in my cave, I'd still want to be at maximum
ready for when a neighboring tribe appeared or if I suddenly needed to
increase exertion for food.

I find it plausible that exercise has costs that are being overlooked. I'm
always impressed by the longevity of academic-types I find in wikipedia, who I
presume don't run marathons often. NFL players have extremely low lifespans.
Marathon runners tend to have higher rates of heart damage.

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chegra84
As one of the article says "both sides of the argument can bring lots of data
to thet table in support of their contentions."

I think scientist should be leading the charge on this. Everybody seem to have
their own book or point of view to peddle.

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wendroid
see also <http://www.sethroberts.net/about/whatmakesfoodfattening.pdf>

