
The Power of Shower Thoughts - otras
https://alexanderell.is/posts/trust-in-your-unconscious/
======
kstenerud
It just has to be some repetitive physical activity that doesn't require
intense thought or mental focus.

This can be chopping wood, taking a shower, walking, hiking, running, riding a
bike, taking the dog for a walk, doing the dishes, etc.

The key is:

1\. No particular mental focus

2\. Some kind of physical movement

Your mind eventually starts to spin on autopilot, which is when it is able to
mix things it can't while you're focused.

~~~
psv1
To add to your point 1 - no particular mental focus also requires no audio
input. It's so easy to fall into the habit of constantly having a podcast or
an audiobook on.

~~~
proverbialbunny
Actually, audio and especially music can make it easier to go into a diffuse
state. The trick is to make sure it's music without lyrics, or the volume is
low enough you're not listening to the content of the talking.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Or, it's a song you've listened to a hundred times already and know the lyrics
and the tempo by heart. At least, it works for me.

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noelsusman
Cigarettes taught me this in college. Definitely the only positive impact
smoking had on my life. I would be deep into solving a hard problem, and my
nicotine brain would force me to go outside and smoke. I would very often come
back inside and immediately get past a big hurdle I was struggling with.

It happened so much that when I quit smoking I made sure to continue the
routine of getting up to go outside for a few minutes every two hours or so.

~~~
ajxs
I came here to say the exact same thing. I used to find that the act of prying
myself away from the computer to go have a cigarette was incredibly beneficial
to my problem solving ability. There is definitely something to performing a
simple, repetitive physical task while leaving the mind free to wander. Like
the above poster, I've since quit smoking thank goodness. I don't miss the
smoking itself as much as I miss having a reason to get up and treat myself to
some quiet time to indulge myself in thought.

~~~
keyle
Interestingly enough browsing HN every so often is my version of this.

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eloff
Somehow when I take a break to do something mindless, showering being
especially high on the list, I often am able to step back from the problem and
get some perspective. Yesterday I realized I was making the solution to
complex by separating concerns and could combine them and greatly simplify the
task. Five minutes in the shower yielded more forward progress than three long
days of coding. It doesn't always help, but it does often enough that the
daily shower is a productive time. More often it's just a mental code review
and I catch and fix a bug, that works best if I go strait from coding to the
shower with all the pieces of code fresh in my mind.

~~~
snarf21
The commute to work helps me as well. I think this is something that can get
lost for people who work from home. Too many people are so focused on heads
down LOC/hour and forget that the software is art. I've worked with good
engineers that can't touch type. Designing effective maintainable solutions is
hard and should be the thing that people focus on.

~~~
Franciscouzo
The commute is one of the only thing I _don 't_ miss from working home, if I
want to clear my mind I have plenty of better options, I can walk through the
neighborhood, take a shower or do some house chores.

~~~
snarf21
Sure, it is an individual thing. The thing I like about my 20 minute drive is
that I can't be distracted. I can't look at my phone or the tv. This is also
best for me in the morning when I'm still waking up and my brain is in a lower
gear.

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pmontra
One of the advantages of the pomodoro method is that those 5 minute breaks
allow me to stop thinking hard at the problem I'm working on. "Do I really
need to solve that, in that way, or is the solution in that other direction?"
That realization would come anyway but with a break every 25 minutes it comes
much earlier and with less wasted time.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomodoro_Technique](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomodoro_Technique)

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101008
My experience has been the same and I think it is related to pressure on the
problem. If I'm thinking to solve the problem on my code editor (or in work
enviroment, for the case), I feel a lot of pressure in solving it right and
(maybe) quick. I have to think about the problem well, I can't misstep.

In the other cases (shower), I can think about the problem without pressure
and in a more free way. No one will care what I think or what I could propose
about the problem in that situation, it's just my mind and me.

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jmkd
Am a big fan of this approach, I've slipped into this intense focus / distant
reflection practice over the years without knowing why or how it worked.

It's wonderful to see it formalised and be able to communicate its value.

Naps, walks and gentle bike rides hold the answers to so many puzzles.

~~~
lotaezenwa
You might find this recent article in The New Yorker intriguing:
[https://www.newyorker.com/culture/annals-of-inquiry/the-
myth...](https://www.newyorker.com/culture/annals-of-inquiry/the-myth-and-
magic-of-generating-new-ideas)

------
hyperion2010
If I have a problem I need to solve, I think about it before I go to bed, and
in the morning when I wake up I will often find it solved. I am pretty good at
remembering my dreams, and on many of these occasions I will recall a dream of
writing code related to the problem. I never remember the code itself, but
often the structure of the problem will be much more apparent to me the next
day.

Thinking actively about a problem is often all we have time for, but if you
can let something stew and let your brain work on it, especially while working
on other problems that might turn out to have some similar structure, the
results can be quite satisfying.

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Itaxpica
This has worked so well for me in the past that back in my undergrad Analysis
of Algorithms class, I would take extra showers just to work through
particularly tricky problem set problems. It never failed.

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lapnitnelav
I am pretty sure activities that have low brain requirements, be it the
shower, running and the likes allow our brains to declutter, clean up all the
mess of the constant stimuli we are assaulted with, especially from tech, but
also noise if you're a fellow urban dweller.

On a similar note, I realised pen and paper -away from any computer, works
wonders to organise my thoughts.

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mikece
I wonder if the habit of listening to audio at faster than 1x speed has the
side effect of muting the brain’s ability to do “background thinking.” I have
noticed that when I take a day or two off from listening to a podcast or
audiobook on my commute I have better focus and creativity — but the sample
size is small and I do t know if this is merely coincidence.

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j7ake
I wonder if anybody have studies of whether the constant audio of music and
audiobooks are a detriment to allowing the background processes to work in the
mind?

~~~
maverick2007
That's an interesting question that I'd also love to know the answer to. I'm
also curious whether there's a difference between music and
podcasts/audiobooks since the latter seem to require a lot more focus than the
former which might further inhibit background processing?

~~~
bradleyjg
Even within music we might expect differences between instrumental, nonsense
lyrics, and narrative songs.

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charles_f
I call it backprocess, it's fun how when you let go sometimes it comes with
new conclusions and more clarity. It's also super comforting to have this
inner "friend" do some of the thinking for yo.

The other thing I've noticed is how it's sometimes hard to concentrate on
something else when you're going through a significant cognitive process
(changing jobs, arguments, work hassles...), even if you are not actively
thinking about it. As if your brain's cycles were taken by something else.

I've started to notice the pattern (hard to focus, distracted), attribute it
to backprocess, realize that whatever triggered it must be significant, and
expect to yield results at some point.

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milancurcic
Some of my best ideas and realizations in science research and business I got
while exercising, sleeping, or in the shower.

~~~
iruby
Same here. Throughout the years, I realized that a warm shower is priceless
for making better plans, generating new ideas and solving difficult problems

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usefulcat
I've experienced this many times. I've been walking to and from work most days
for the past several years, about 30 minutes each way. In the morning I listen
to a podcast, but in the afternoon I just walk and let my mind wander. By the
end of the day I'm usually too tired to continue in the focused mode of
thinking, but sometimes I'm still able to discover some new insight while
walking in the unfocused mode.

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drej
I've had some of the best ideas while in a sauna. Sure, I can't write stuff
down, but a) I don't have my phone, no distractions, b) it's a prolonged
period, so I have time to think it through, c) there's no physical exercise to
distract me from all this.

The one downside is the fact that I can't write stuff down, so I oftentimes
forget these revolutionary thoughts ;-)

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chiefalchemist
Two things to share.

1) The book Your Brain at Work by David Rock does a great job explaining the
brain and how to tilt it in your favor, more often.

2) I have solved more problems and had more great ideas 3+ miles into a run
than any place else. There's something to be said for thinking less and not
forcing the brain into a corner.

~~~
MperorM
Do you run at a high or slow pace?

I find myself unable to focus on my audiobooks while running once the pace is
high enough. I imagine all I would be thinking of while running without
content to distract me would be the number of the miles left of the run.

~~~
chiefalchemist
Mid to slow. I don't do technology of any sort while running. That's the
point. It's the chance to disconnect. I don't run for my body. I run for my
mind.

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keitmo
This is one of the many reasons I love bike commuting. I solve many work-
related problems while I'm riding.

~~~
Vervious
My bike commute was anything but routine. Cars making unsafe right turns one
day, pedestrians in the bike lane the next, black ice the third day...

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corysama
Highly recommend the book “Hare Brain Tortoise Mind” for more insight into how
this does and doesn’t work well.

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unnouinceput
"Things I’ve found don’t work... Playing video games"

Opposite for me, I go for easy problems and then let my mind wander while I
play a mindless game of Chess or HoMM3, then when I restart work one hour
later the solution writes itself in 5 minutes.

~~~
milesvp
What game really matters. High attention games I find don’t work. Just like
driving during rush hour in tretcherous conditions doesn’t work for me, but a
driving sim where I can’t physically die if my mind wanders might...

Multiplayer games of high action, like overwatch similarly are bad.

Other games that don’t work well for me are zachtronic likes, too hard, and
too much like the problems I’m trying to solve.

Suprisingly, though, dark souls is a good game to play. Something about the
combat is meditative, especially the corpse runs from dying to an easy mob,
that focuses my attention in ways I find other activities don’t.

Homm3 seems like a good meditative game. Lots of relatively brainless combat,
especially if you use save games to avoid truly stupid moves. Many one more
turn type games can fall under this historically. Newer strategy games I find
lack this quality though. It seems that modern game design generally avoids
the dominant and dominated strategies that I used to enjoy finding and
exploiting mindlessly decades ago.

By and large though, I personally try to avoid games until I’m done for the
day. I find it hard to go back to work, and my working sessions are shorter
and shorter the earlier I allow myself to play any games...

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pimmen
I've solved plenty of problems when I swim. There's so many different "rooms"
and frames of mind I can be in during that activity I think that's the main
reason why it doesn't happen as often during weight training. While swimming I
can come up with the solution in the shower, in the sauna, while doing my sets
in the pool and while resting between sets. I switch between being completely
immersed in water, almost deprived of sensory inputs, and being above water
constantly.

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mentos
I'd love to hear from John Carmack on this, it would be interesting to hear
that he rarely has these 'shower' moments because he is always operating with
great perspective.

~~~
1_player
I would expect the opposite instead. I don't know him personally and this is
conjecture based on what I've read about him, but his being totally immersed
in a particular subject, to the extent of going to a thinking retreat in a
cabin, is the best way to reach those Eureka moments.

I've written in the past about this, let me copy an old comment of mine:

"Let me share a tip that might work for you as well then: some times you will
procrastinate heavily because you're have a hard problem with no solution in
sight. You'll want to make some semblance of progress, but you just can't sit
down and concretely work on it.

It's by design! Your subconscious keeps working in the background, thinking
outside the box until one day out of nowhere you get the solution right before
your eyes.

I'm not sure it's possible to think outside the box if you're not
procrastinating, since you need other types of unrelated input for your brain
to make a different type of association and reach a conclusion from another
perspective.

I'd like to read more about this phenomenon but has been one of my best tricks
up my sleeve in my career. Recently I've been trying to write down a complex
piece of code, the corner stone of my application critical to the whole
business. I've spent weeks on that problem, tried and failed to design a
working solution, spent hours reading papers during working time instead of
writing anything, browsing HN mindlessly, until after 2 months, out of the
blue at 4am looking at cat pics on reddit I found the answer. And I'm now
enjoying this newfound wave of productivity until my next hard problem"

~~~
mamon
>> you need other types of unrelated input for your brain to make a different
type of association

Or maybe it's even simpler: conscious mind stuck on hard problem starts to
work as broken record - you are repeating the same thoughts, reconsidering the
same wrong solutions all over again. Focusing on something unrelated frees
your uncounciousness to try something else.

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lethologica
In my previous job when I used to write code, all the answers to my problems
came when I got up, walked to the toilet and did my business.

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ryanmarsh
For more information on how you can use this and other techniques to solve
hard problems and get more (deep) work done. See Cal Newport's book Deep Work
[https://www.calnewport.com/books/deep-
work/](https://www.calnewport.com/books/deep-work/)

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gallerdude
_" Just think about it deeply. Then forget it, and an idea will jump up in
your face."_

~~~
zwkrt
A mentor of mine once said that information acquisition is intentional, like
eating, but learning is subconscious, like digestion. He liked to say “you
can’t _help_ but learn!”

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vagab0nd
For anyone having many good shower thoughts but easily forget them due to bad
short-term memory: buy some water proof note taking papers. It's among the
best things I've done for myself recently.

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Taniwha
I'd also add - Public transit - don't take your phone

~~~
ajxs
I don't know about where you live, but where I am public transport in peak
hour is a ghastly cyberpunk nightmare. When you're packed into poorly air-
conditioned, cramped and dirty trains some small amount of escapism is more
than a luxury, it's a matter of mental health.

~~~
Taniwha
Well I live in NZ, but back in the day I used to get on to BART from the East
bay to SF during non-peak hours, and usually just turn around and come back
because I'd solved my problem

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mezzode
My problem with shower thoughts is often I have too many and it's a struggle
to hold on to them all until the end of the shower so I can actually write
them down

~~~
kylek
Start bringing a whiteboard marker with you

~~~
TeMPOraL
Or a waterproof notebook (with an attached waterproof pencil). They worked
really well for me; I sketched a few public talks in the shower this way.

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spiggytopes
Solvitur abulando - 'it is solved by walking' (Diogenes of Sinope). Great tool
for solving hard problems.

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lazyeye
[https://reddit.com/r/showerthoughts](https://reddit.com/r/showerthoughts)

