

Against Nostalgia - Mike Daisey on Steve Jobs - bgruber
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/06/opinion/jobs-looked-to-the-future.html

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lukifer
I wish that before Steve had left us, someone would have been able to ask him
about the lack of a magical user experience for developers. While Apple has
always made "closed" hardware, the Apple II and the early Macs were delightful
toyboxes for swaths of young people: BASIC, Hypercard, ResEdit, etc. They (we)
learned, tinkered, explored, taking the concept of a "bicycle for the mind" to
a whole new level.

There's a lot to like about modern Mac and iPhone development: the tools and
the documentation are arguably better than they've ever been, and the APIs
have become absurdly powerful. But there's very little magic or UX to be found
for the young and the new: even if you scrape together the $99 and brave the
frustrating certificate process, it still takes a lot of overhead to make
anything happen on the screen. (Recent improvements like ARC and storyboards
help, but they're a band-aid.)

I think there remains a tremendous unfilled space in the computing world for
usable "prosumer" programming, in the spirit of Hypercard. If the FSF types
could pull their neckbeards out of their UNIX sphincters for five minutes,
they'd see that the real barrier to truly free software is software that's
trivial to learn how to edit or create [1]. And if Steve had seen this as a
priority, I have no doubt that he could have made it happen.

[1] Obviously, not all software could be written this way; we'd still need
engineers. But even web-enabled Hypercard-style apps would allow people to
create a great deal of value for themselves and others, and give them the
courage to venture deeper.

~~~
isopod
_I think there remains a tremendous unfilled space in the computing world for
usable "prosumer" programming, in the spirit of Hypercard._

I would argue that such a thing already exists. If you want to do 'easy', low-
hanging, easily-prototyped design and development, the kind of experience you
had as a kid with Hypercard, you can still do it, and mostly for free: it's
the _web_.

~~~
gfodor
You can't be serious. Web application development is the antithesis of what
the OP is talking about, it's a mess.

A hypercard-inspired tool for creating touch applications is going to be
disruptive, and is going to happen. It's a glaring gap left open by Apple. In
fact, this is the reason I am personally hesitant to start working on one,
it's so glaring that I would be surprised if Apple hasn't been working on one
that will be released when it's ready.

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ghostwords
"Mr. Jobs leaves behind a dominant Apple, fulfilling his original promise to
save the company from the brink when he returned in 1997. Because of its
enormous strength in both music sales and mobile devices, Apple has more power
than at any time in its history, and it is using that power to make the
computing experience of its users less free, more locked down and more tightly
regulated than ever before. All of Apple’s iDevices — the iPod, iPhone and
iPad — use operating systems that deny the user access to their workings.
Users cannot install programs themselves; they are downloaded from Apple’s
servers, which Apple controls …

… Today there is no tech company that looks more like the Big Brother from
Apple’s iconic 1984 commercial than Apple itself, a testament to how quickly
power can corrupt."

~~~
erichocean
> Users cannot install programs themselves

It costs $99/year to do so. I have written software and installed it on all
three of those devices.

I wish it cost no money whatsoever, but the quoted text itself is simply not
true.

~~~
ghostwords
You are not a user, you are a developer. Consider that having to pay/become
certified to develop reinforces the above point.

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juliano_q
That was something that I needed to read. Yes, Steve was a genious, but we
can't let death create a saint from him. With Apple's giant profit margins he
_could_ enforce better working conditions. I also don't like the closed
ecosystem idea, but that is just my PoV and I understand why people support it
to have a better overall usability.

~~~
3pt14159
He has a duty to his shareholders. The reason that the Chinese workers are
willing to work in such terrible conditions is that it is a step up from where
they were. China is modernizing, just as we did once.

Say for a second that Jobs was somehow able to double the wages given to the
average worker in China (or increase conditions such that it was effectively a
doubled salary). The result would be massive, widespread demand to work in
those factories. Since supply and demand are not balanced either queues take
over or gate keepers get paid off.

If that doesn't make you feel better at least the corporate taxes Apple pays
might.

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gatlin
I'm not sure how unique Apple is in supply chain human rights issues, but I
will say that it's appalling how little anyone seems to care about who we are
literally killing to have nice things. I'm just as hypocritical and evil as
everyone else, too, so please save your ad hominem responses.

~~~
aikinai
I haven't looked into it extensively and I could be mistaken, but after the
suicides at Foxconn, I remember reading an article about how the suicide rate
at the factory was far lower than the suicide rate of the surrounding towns.

The conditions in Chinese factories are horrible to think about, but it's
important to keep in mind those conditions are often better than the places
the workers came from. Shutting down factories in China wouldn't do anything
to improve the lives of poor Chinese.

And I've read that Foxconn is actually the most desirable employer compared to
other factories.

~~~
justsee
"it's important to keep in mind those conditions are often better than the
places the workers came from"

No offence, but I think this type of ignorance forms part of the denialism we
use to avoid considering the moral issues. Mike Daisey has made the point that
manufacturing has only really taken off in Shenzhen in the last 10 years, and
that the horrific working conditions could be improved without a significant
increase in product price as labor is such a tiny part of the overall cost.

This was a very good article where Mike Daisey rails against the sentiment
you're showing above: [http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/the-
dark-si...](http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/the-dark-side-of-
apple-one-mans-monologue-of-misery-20110930-1l0hg.html)

His interview on the issue was particularly good as well:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=D...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=D040AvDBAT4)

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snorkel
It'd be interesting if Apple were bold enough to pursue Fair Labor
Certification even if it meant pricing their products even higher, but I think
Apple has the exact customer base that'd be willing to pay the Fair Labor
premium.

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ricardobeat
No mention of <http://www.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/> or the Code of
Conduct they put together after the Foxconn fiascos.

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brd
I love this op-ed, I've harbored similar feelings since the rise of iTunes and
haven't owned an apple product since its arrival. I have always readily
admitted the superiority of Apple's design and user experience and I admire
Jobs for everything he has accomplished but Apple has never, in my eyes, been
a company truly deserving of celebration.

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lucasjake
This article makes several valid points, but the overall 'hook' or theme
doesn't really make sense. Steve Jobs was very nostalgic, greenlighting the
original 'think different' campaign profiling historical figures, and more
recently the iconic advertising featuring The Beatles, which apple worked so
long to get into iTunes.

There are also valid points made about the manufacturing situation in China,
but he did not explore any real counterargument. The factory jobs in China are
not perfect, but do we know if those workers are fundamentally opposed to it?
China tried to avoid this type of capitalistic society for a generation, and
was not happy with the results. I think it is fair to critique the standards
of the factories, but without providing an alternative solution to lifting a
billion people into prosperity, I think it was kind of a low blow against
Steve in the article given the timing.

~~~
zbuc
It was also a low blow given the fact that the author owns an iPad... so he's
enjoying the fruits of what he describes as abusive labor practices. If you're
going to be principled, be principled. An iPad isn't a necessity in any way.

~~~
burgerbrain
Owning Apple hardware doesn't mean you have to be blind to the dark side of
Apple. If anything, it just tells me the author is capable of analyzing the
situation critically.

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kragen
Daisey is more eloquently and sensitively restating the same arguments that
Stallman wrote, drawing much flamage, earlier today:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3085417>

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polemic
This article mirrors my thoughts - Steve Jobs was truly a great business man
who revolutionised consumer technology and the entertainment industry.

But if we really think that these are the industries that betters humanity, we
need a strong reality check.

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ilamont
I wish that the bio at the end, which promotes the author's Steve Jobs
monologue ( _"scheduled to open at the Public Theater on Tuesday"_ ) hadn't
been added. It lessens the power of some of the points he brings up, and makes
his argument seem more like an advertisement.

In addition, the safety, health, and compensation of workers at suppliers'
factories in Asia could have been explored more. The fact that workers' rights
in China and elsewhere are so poor is one of those uncomfortable realities
about global manufacturing that most consumers -- and fans of Apple and Steve
Jobs -- would rather forget.

~~~
SeoxyS
The bio in op-eds is a standard in journalism. It's added by the editor, not
the author.

~~~
ilamont
I used to work in the news business. At every publication I've worked for, the
editor asks the author for a short bio. It's almost never changed unless it's
too long or too over-the-top.

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sajid
The outpouring of emotion we've seen over the last few days is not due to
nostalgia. It's because a person many people have admired and looked up to is
gone.

Steve Jobs was a hero for a lot of people in technology, especially for
entrepreneurs and it's ok to grieve when your heroes die.

Nobody is claiming Steve Jobs was perfect, he had flaws like any other a human
being. But he was a damn good entrepreneur and for many people that's no small
thing, it's what many of us are dedicating our lives to.

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fritzy
Most good things, taken to an extreme, become terrible in some ways. In this
case, consumerism -- the United States, and increasingly the world, have taken
consumerism to an extreme. Our culture has been systematically shifted by
laws, advertising, taxes, and our own desires to drive us towards making and
lusting after purchases.

We enjoy a high quality of life, and many amazing technologies, in part due to
our rampant consumerism, but the side effects may not be worth it.

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stevengg
the wrong shade of yellow in the second “O” that this story mentions
[https://plus.google.com/u/2/107117483540235115863/posts/gcSS...](https://plus.google.com/u/2/107117483540235115863/posts/gcSStkKxXTw)

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xutopia
Is this the Mike Daisey who had some Christian mob throw water on his show
notes?

~~~
allwein
Yep, same Mike Daisey.

<http://www.mikedaisey.com/2007/04/night-to-remember.sht>

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Blunt
another fucking story about Steve Jobs... RIP in piece Ralph Steinman!

