
Fixing the MacBook Pro - ryanashcraft
https://marco.org/2017/11/24/fixing-the-macbook-pro
======
on_and_off
I got the last mac book pro at work, coming from a 2015 model I use at home.

Pro :

\- it is lighter. I don't really find it is a very relevant pro, the previous
one is already a light device so this isn't really relevant but it would not
be fair to do not list it.

\- touch id is very convenient. It has one huge caveat : it is very
capricious. For example each time the mbp crashes, fingerprints are
automatically deleted. I guess it is a security measure, but it makes it a
pain to register my fingers again since the machine is not that stable.

Meh :

\- the touchpad is extremely large, I am not sure why. I had no problem with
the old one. I sometimes tap on the pad by mistake but that does not happen
often.

Cons :

-Touchbar : I can't wrap my mind around it. It is just bad. This is such a gimmick, and a badly implemented one. I can't count the number of times I mistyped on this band. Accessing a feature almost always take more time than with the old regular keyboard. On top of that, I really miss the tactility of a simple button. I am used to type without looking at the keyboard and with buttons you can't press it is far from comfortable to do so.

I am on the verge of just using a dedicated keyboard and touchpad just to do
not have to use this touchbar.

It makes me very uncomfortable, but the high end machine my company bought for
me is objectively less suited to my use case than the 2 years old one I have
at home.

It is the first time that even after a couple of months, I can't get used to a
new machine and long to go back to the last one.

~~~
pfg
I agree with most of this. I switched from a 13" MBP of the previous design to
a 15" 2016 MBP. I do appreciate the size and weight reduction - the new one
barely feels larger or heavier than my previous 13" MBP. I like the feel of
the keyboard, but the keys are very unreliable - I've had a couple of keys
fail to register or start to register twice for every key press (which I was
luckily able to fix on my own with some gas duster and by tapping the key fast
for a while.) I haven't found any use for the TouchBar.

> For example each time the mbp crashes, fingerprints are automatically
> deleted.

What kind of crash are you referring to? I've had my 2016 MBP for about a year
now, with a couple of freezes/black screens, but I haven't had to re-register
my fingerprints at all. I assume you're not just referring to the mandatory
password entry after reboot?

~~~
dsego
I also have the issue of some keys repeating letters. Also, had to replace
several keycaps, the tiny clamps are too weak and get loose, so the keycaps
start to wobble and pop out.

------
chrisbennet
I think they should show some courage and make a Pro quality laptop again -
one that doesn’t require dongles. Make it thicker, maybe even make it black.
Developers don’t want the _thinnest_ , we want the _best_.

It’s probably never gonna happen because they are a mobile device company now
and that is where the money is.

~~~
spronkey
This. Make it upgradable. RAM and multiple M.2 please.

And make it shut the hell up, or let me offload compute to something that has
big fans.

~~~
eitland
> or let me offload compute to something that has big fans.

This one puzzles me. Back when I used a MacBook the fact that it was mostly
silent was one of the biggest advantages.

Also, somewhat honestly: I don’t see any reason why Mac users can't offload to
AWS, Azure or Google Cloud?

~~~
spronkey
What kind of MacBook did you use, and did you plug it in to an external
display?

My 2013 15" MacBook Pro is extremely loud when plugged in to one or more
external displays. Seems to be related to the fact that its fans are either
off, or at 100%. Or at least have a very late, aggressive curve. It's also
very loud when the CPU is constantly pegged at 20% or more, which is basically
a given when running Xcode.

I can offload some things to the cloud, but I can't offload my UI and local
apps, which are the things that cause the really loud noise.

When it's under a light load, it's very quiet - moreso than most non-Apple
machines I've used. But under heavy load, a number of other machines seem to
be much better at expelling their heat without sounding like a jet engine.

------
iscoelho
I've owned a Macbook Pro 2015. I've also owned about 3 different Cherry Blue
MX mechanical keyboards.

I pre-ordered the new Macbook Pro 2016 when it originally came out. Here's my
take after using it for more than 6-7? months (no clue, time goes by):

1) I am extremely happy with the butterfly keyboard. There is absolutely no
issues with it for me and it's my ideal keyboard. I honestly do not understand
people who say the accuracy is bad on it - perfectly fine for me. Use it for
long enough and you'll get used to it. The only thing it is guilty of is being
different.

2) I enjoy the Touchbar and TouchID, it genuinely feels nice to use it. ESC
key being on the touch bar is something you get used to, but understandably if
I was a huge user of VIM it would probably make me extremely upset. Thankfully
I'm not and it works fine for me. I genuinely do not notice it anymore.

3) I ran out of USB-C ports on my laptop (4 total). I have pretty much all of
them in use, so I now need to resort to USB-C <-> USB A hubs. For some reason,
USB-C <-> USB-C hubs don't exist, so that honestly sucks considering I
completely switched to USB-C plugs before I ran out.

4) Touchpad size is much better than 2015 MBP. After using this so much I
could never go back to a smaller touchpad, and using my old 2015 MBP just
honestly feels bad. It might be due to my sensitivity? I have no clue why
people say their hands hit the touchpad since I have never had that issue in
my entire time owning it.

5) CPU and memory is great. I can run multiple virtual machines in Parallels
no issue. I develop games and constantly test them in the background. I really
see absolutely zero drawback from the 2015 MBP, and even though on a spec-
sheet the hardware /looks/ worse, in my experience it performs much better.

Take what you will from my experiences.

~~~
brandonmenc
> I am extremely happy with the butterfly keyboard

Agree.

So much so, that I ordered the new Magic Keyboard for desktop use (which uses
similar switches) to replace the previous-generation Apple Wireless Keyboard.

The new MacBook Pro keyboard is the best I've ever used. My fingers feel like
they're flying over the keys. And I've owned all sorts of mechanical
keyboards, ThinkPads, and odd devices like the DataHand.

I really don't understand all the hate for the new keyboard. Or USB-C. Or the
Touch Bar.

~~~
mistersquid
I'm here to third this assessment. The feel of the butterfly switch is so much
better for long bouts of coding/typing and, in my particular case, improved
accuracy.

I think the issue is that the scissors switch encourages typing using the tips
of the fingers (deeper key travel) whereas the butterfly keys encourage using
the pads of the fingers which reduces exertion and fatigue.

My understanding is that the failure rate for the butterfly keys is
"significant [...] but 'less than 5% for sure.'" [0] Marco Ament (thread OP)
and John Gruber (Daring Fireball) are proponents of keyboards that take more
effort to use, Gruber's favorite keyboard being the Apple Extended Keyboard
II. [1][2]

Some aficionados' opinions about keyboards reach heights usually reserved for
out-of-production American muscle-car transmissions. [3] Reading the tenor of
some descriptions of the action of these old-timey keyboards, e.g.

    
    
      > tank but with a more metallic, punchy feel, and an audible note to its
      > astoundingly loud typing sound, [3]
    

one can practically feel the adoration of these self-identified keyboard nerds
for a particular type of vintage keyboard.

I personally prefer subtlety and finesse when I interaction with peripheral
devices, so I welcome the move toward shallower key travel.

YMMV

    
    
      [0] https://theoutline.com/post/2402/the-new-macbook-keyboard-is-ruining-my-life
      [1] https://daringfireball.net/linked/2012/04/16/my-favorite-keyboard
      [2] https://www.flickr.com/photos/gruber/sets/72157604797968156/
      [3] http://www.penmachine.com/2008/04/keyboard-nerdery-apple-extended
    

EDIT: spelling, punctuation, capitalization, modify adverbial phrase, add
adjective.

~~~
Terretta
Could be whether you learned to type on a typewriter or IBM model M keyboard
versus something considerably more recent.

------
sillysaurus3
Got a 2015 Macbook Pro. As of today, the E, R, and T keys have all stopped
working. Apple wants $500 for a logic board replacement.

It was fine when it was just the R key. Sort of. I set up bash scripts to
copy-paste "r" to my clipboard, and just pressed command-V instead of "r". But
then the T key went out.

The other day, I was using my MacBook with an external keyboard sitting on
top, and then the whole thing shut off. The keyboard had been pressing the
power button.

Also ran across someone with a similar story:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15701331](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15701331)
MBP rendered unusable by faulty X key. Apple wanted $400, he paid, then the G
key went out. They wanted another $400.

~~~
Chernobog
It is sad to hear your story, and I hope you have great luck in finding a good
solution that does not empty your wallet.

I really wish that the 5 year "reklamasjon" (roughly translated to claims)
period we have in Norway for things that are supposed to last more than two
years, caught on globally. It can sort of be explained as a warranty mandated
by law, which means we can usually ignore the usual warranties from the vendor
unless they give better terms or last longer than 5 years. I have had computer
equipment that broke down after four and a half years, that I got either
replaced or repaired for free because we have these laws.

I think one of the largest benefits of having such a system world wide, would
be less waste. Producers would have to make more durable products that lasted
longer, not laptops, cellphones etc. that are basically treated as consumables
with only a few years of life expectancy.

~~~
kibibu
Australia has a similar arrangement. The wording in the Consumer Law is
deliberately vague - something like it must last "a reasonable time", which
means a $2000 laptop should last longer than a $300 one. It's not a fixed 5
years.

My Samsung TV I bought in 2012 died this year under normal use, and they
replaced it with a new model. The "warranty" was only 12 month. I'm 100% this
law is partly responsible for the "Australia tax" but it also means
manufacturers can't take shortcuts.

(Apple tried to claim the "reasonable time" an iPhone should last is 12
months, which didn't stand up in court given you could buy them on 2 year
contracts)

~~~
krrrh
It’s important that this gets brought up every time Australians complain about
high prices. When it comes to MacBooks, it is essentially mandated AppleCare.

------
dbg31415
* Keys break. A lot. Probably 1/4th of my friends with this machine have broken keys. Never happened on the old MBPs. (As I type this I'm using a mechanical Razer keyboard plugged into a dongle plugged into a 2016 MBP with a broken G key.)

* Trackpad is too big. What was the point, honestly? Nobody said, "My use case is I want a trackpad that's impossible not to bump when I type."

* MagSafe was great, bring it back. Every Apple product from now until the end of time should use a MagSafe power connector.

* TouchBar sucks. End of story. I miss the ESC key. I've literally never been like, "Oh gosh, I'm glad I have a TouchBar to change the volume... what a great feature!" It' just inflates production cost without adding value.

* Machines lack power... CPU and RAM. Old MBPs felt like they were amazing machines that would stand up over time. 16 GB RAM has been the cap for how many years now? Like a decade? Yeah...

* USB-C... other than dongles, I don't know a single accessory that uses a USB-C. Everything is Thunderbolt or USB-3. So... yeah let's have at least one USB-3 plug. I've got a USB and HDMI adapter that I use every day. Anyway nothing is built using a USB-C... I get pushing for new tech, but it seems more just like a way to add $250 in dongle sales to every new laptop sold.

* They are more expensive than the old ones. =(

* Office, Steam, other things... still don't run as well on Mac as they do on PC. If Apple isn't for Gamers, it has to be for people who do work? Or... look, who are the "Pro" lines for these days?

------
makecheck
I would add, “Apple, you have our permission to add a quarter inch of
thickness and a bit of weight to create a better computer”. The compromises
are becoming ridiculous.

------
stevewillows
I'm on a late 2013 15" MBP and I am dreading the day when I need to replace
this joy of a machine.

I like the idea of the touch bar, but I don't actually want it for keys. I
think it'd be handy as a ticker for notifications, macros, etc, but not common
keys.

Having a bar for macros / shortcut keys for Illustrator (etc) would be
extremely useful for designers, and I don't doubt that there are hundreds of
other applications for other industries. Sort of like those LED keyboards that
were kicking around a few years back.

The requirement for dongles is just silly. I actually purchased this late-2013
MBP refurbished specifically because I didn't like the new GPU and read some
other complaints about the current systems of the day. Having an SD slot,
HDMI, 2x USB, etc is excellent and can easily handle most of my needs when I'm
on-the-go. At home I have my laptop on a VESA mounted tray with a second
monitor.

All in all, there isn't a lot that Apple needs to improve with the MBP -- they
just need to dial it back a few generations and retool the touchbar so its not
mandatory.

Lastly, bring back magsafe! Maybe there are some people who hated it, but I've
never had any issues with it. There have been a few times where the cable has
been kicked (often at a coffee shop by someone else.) Its a fantastic design,
even if the magnets could be the tiniest bit stronger.

quick edit: I hope things don't go the way of using the camera for quick
unlocking. I always keep my cameras covered, even if makes me look like I'm
paranoid. Using touch ID on the touch bar would definitely be ideal.

~~~
csomar
The touch bar is optional. In my opinion, it is great. The only issue is that
it consumes more of your battery.

I agree that the new machine is lacking in terms of Battery and Memory (only
16GB!). I'm waiting for the next release.

~~~
acranox
The models without the touchbar have fewer USB ports. That’s why it’s
questionably optional. My work setup uses two external monitors and wired
Ethernet. So I’d like three ports and no touch bar. If I want enough ports for
my setup, I have to take the touch bar too. I don’t like having to make that
kind of choice.

~~~
csomar
I didn't know that. Any good reasons for that?

~~~
acranox
I think they used fewer or smaller usb controllers in the cheaper model. So it
only has bandwidth to drive two ports. And I suspect it was intentional to
encourage high end users to take the one with the touch bar, as a way of
driving adoption.

------
endemic
It’s just super annoying that Apple labels these laptops as “pro” when it
seems their focus is thinness/lightness. I don’t begrudge this on the consumer
models, but the new MBP’s are so philosophically different from my older
machine (expandable, lots of ports, etc.)

~~~
orbitingpluto
Flexibility doesn't necessarily mean portability. Always having to remember to
take the right dongle is wasted mental effort. I'd rather lug around a
slightly heavier device.

I'm writing to you on a 6.5lb laptop with FireWire, VGA, HDMI, DisplayPort,
two 3.5mm audio jacks, SD 5 USB-A and 3 USB-C. And in all honesty, I sort of
miss having a 9 pin serial port.

------
ricardobeat
I had a terrible experience during the first days with a MBP 13”, which was
kinda offset by being amazed by the touchbar. That faded quickly though.

Finding ESC without any physical affordance is a pain in the ass. Normal
things like cancelling a dialog become a hurdle. I haven’t used the middle
section of the touchbar in weeks - nothing really useful there. I hate the way
the volume slider works. A few days back almost hurt my ears when accidentally
maxed out the volume while swiping off a bit of dust from the metal right
above it.

I’ve had the standard dead key issue but it fixed itself. The keyboard
actually feels nice, but a key gets a bit sticky every other day.

What made my experience better is fully embracing USB-C. I have a hub
connected to a 4K monitor, headphones and power, so I can sit down and plug in
a _single cable_ that does everything - this feels magical. [To be fair,
sometimes two cables since the hub can’t keep up with charging under heavy
load.]

------
edlebert
I would add: the trackpad is way too big. I accidentally touch it all the time
when I am typing, which causes my cursor to move.

~~~
jseliger
Yes, that's my big issue too. I bought and returned a 12" MB because I kept
accidentally activating the trackpad.

Which is a shame. I thought the keyboard was fine and lots of other things are
great.

------
twblalock
I agree that the cable-management flaps on the power bricks need to come back.
They were an excellent design and the current bricks could clearly accommodate
them.

~~~
gnicholas
I've heard several Apple 'Geniuses' say that if you wrap the cables around
these flaps then the cable will eventually get damaged. Customers routinely
reply: "why do you put the flaps there if using them will damage the cables?".
Perhaps Apple has removed them because they end up damaging the cables. I've
also noticed that the USB-C charge cable seems to be thicker/more rigid than
the magsafe 2 charge cable.

~~~
Chernobog
The cables are known to break too easily, but I'd rather want them to solve
that by having proper strain relief on the cable than remove the flaps on the
charger.

~~~
dsr_
Redesigning the charger? Might as well do it properly. Have the thin cable
plug in to an L projection, so it naturally wraps right around the brick body.
Put an L projection on the other side, rotationally symmetric, for the wall
cable plug. Now they both wrap with large radius curves, and can be replaced
independently of the charger itself.

You'd think that a company that theoretically charges higher prices for
superior design would do something like that.

~~~
Phlarp
The USB-C PD charger bricks just have a single USB-C slot. You can use the
provided cable or get your own longer/shorter/braided version. There are also
third party USB adapters that mimic magsafe functionality, albeit not as
amazing as proper "Apple designed" magsafe of the past.

Given the new USB-C everything paradigm and the available options I don't
think ditching these plastic clips is that huge of a fumble for them--
Although I would like to see proper L shaped USB plug options on BOTH ends of
the cable from Apple, Nintendo (Switch seriously needs aux charging port in
back or on top) and any other third party that wants my money.

------
Pharylon
I have a 2016 MacBook Pro, and I really dislike it. Part of that is the
dongles, and the dongles plugged into the dongles.

I also dislike the keyboard, but I rarely use it as an actual laptop so it's
fine I guess

~~~
molestrangler
The new style keyboards from Apple are terrible.

I have a 2017 MBP and their BT external keyboard (provided by work) and it is
noisy, it's like having a mechanical keyboard...clack....clack....clack...

Its just so difficult to type silently, unlike their previous keyboards.

------
contingencies
I've got a _MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Late 2013)_ with _2.6 GHz Intel Core
i7_ \+ 16GB + 1TB SSD. It was an upgrade from an earlier 2011 model which
started displaying power issues, overheating and quite literally falling
apart. It's fine power wise.

The problems are:

(1) Screen came with a bad pixel which Apple was like "oh just leave it with
us 1-2 weeks and we can swap that out for you" ... totally unreasonable after
dropping USD$5K, because I need my system daily.

(2) Screen has an imprint of the edge of the keys on it because it is designed
to be too thin/bendy, and when in a full bag receives some squash pressure.

(3) Touching the lower right part of the trackpad began to reset the computer,
sometimes, a couple of years ago. When it happens it happens over and over.
Apple wanted $new-computer-money to fix it. I now use a Wacom tablet and
stylus in most cases.

(4) Some crap driver I installed (Huawei mobile data dongle for India) broke
my OS in some fundamental way that was impossible to fix, and I had to re-
install everything which was a nightmare waste of a weekend.

To be fair I do use it daily and it is sort of surviving, but the cost is far
too high. Of course "I am never buying another Mac!" ... except that I have
been looking at alternatives, and none of them really appeal, except in the
desktop range, which is a big leap backward in mobility. Perhaps I will just
buy a cheap PC laptop with Linux or a dumb terminal at work to log in to a
desktop at my house and be done with it.

~~~
nappy-doo
I have a retina late 2013, and I just sent it in for a battery replacement.
They swapped my drive out to a new CPU, and put my old screen on the new CPU's
body. I think the cost was like 200$, and took 2 days (delivered to my door).

When your machine gets battery problems, take it in ASAP, and get it repaired.
I probably got 3-4 more years of life out of this machine with that repair.

~~~
raincom
Apple replaces the entire top case when you go for retina battery replacement.
So, you get a new top case with new keyboard + touch pad + new battery. I
don't think they replace CPU. There were times Apple gave out a new MBP when
they couldn't get new top cases.

------
ihenriksen
According to Geekbench there is only about a 50% performance gain with Intel
i7 CPUs since MacBook Pro Retinas from 2012, am I the only one that is
surprised about this - Moore's Law and all?
[https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/search?q=macbook+pro](https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/search?q=macbook+pro)

~~~
raincom
I have Late 2013 MBP Retina i7-4850HQ CPU @ 2.30GHz. The score I see is: 4120
14264. For the latest MBP Retina i7-7820HQ @ 2.90HZ and its score is: 4644
15802.

I see just 10% gain, and I don't see any reason to upgrade unless the logic
board fails on my 3.5 years old laptop.

------
g09980
Nothing is has been more frustrating than constantly accidentally touching the
TouchBar while my hands are resting or while typing. I had no idea previously
how many interfaces handle the Esc key.

~~~
StringyBob
I remapped caps lock to be esc, and things work fine.

The touch bar is just now a volume and brightness slider control!

~~~
g09980
The problem is unfortunately not being able to remove Esc from the TouchBar,
and so I accidentally keep pressing it

------
ksec
I would very much like to see Gruber's take on it. Because while Marco is a
prominent software developer, I dont think he understand Apple "that" much.

Take SD Card as Example. To me they are going to the way of CD/DVD. I am not a
professional photographer, so it is a little hard for me to understand what
specific workflow that SD Card is mandatory. We have 802.11ax and 802.11ay,
First being a much improved 802.11ac that should finally mean WiFi doesn't
suck ( as much ) and the latter brings 60Ghz direct line of sight transfer and
100s of Gbps. While we are unlikely to see those speed, it is no argument that
we are capable of doing 5-10 Gbps wireless transfer now, and even better in
the future. So why the need for an SD Card? Your Camera should wirelessly
connect to your Computer.

Then there is the Keyboard, I loved the Magic Keyboard. But even then it is
not perfect. So not only should Apple NOT try to put scissors back to MBP,
they should make something that is better then Magic Keyboard, give the sense
of depth, using more or less the height of Butterfly, while being super
reliable. The problem with only 5% of MBP have keyboard issues is that the
previous MBP had 1%, that is 5X more! They should aim high and have a failure
rate of less then 0.5%.

Again it is the same with trackpad. Let as avoid all the discussion of why
such a large trackpad. But if they are going to make it stay there, may be an
hands on keyboard sensor, we want palm rejection to be 99.999% accurate! Not
98 or 99%.

The list goes on. But Apple is known to be the master of iteration. Or more
like Steve Jobs's Apple was known for it. So the next MBP is going to be
critical.

Mac is still a 25M unit/ year business. 5th Largest PC Vendor by Unit, likely
higher on revenue, possibly the number 1 in profits since Apple make 10x more
profits then other PC vendor. ( Doesn't mean Apple is making a lot, it is just
other PC vendor are cut throat competition going down to 5% Gross Profit ) So
Mac still matters, and will continue to matter for the coming 10 years,
despite the Post PC era, and going in a full circle, It is Apple's best chance
to take over some PC Market.

------
saltcod
Surprises me that a 2015 MBP is still passable for him cpu-wise.

I briefly replaced my 2014 MBP with a 2017 iMac, citing the 16GB ram ceiling
as my primary issue. I ordered the iMac from Apple with 8GB of ram and ordered
an additional 16GB from OWC b/c it was way cheaper.

The iMac arrived over two weeks before the OWC ram arrived, so I had 2 weeks
using the 8GB iMac in it's ram-starved state. In short: I never once noticed
the new iMac with just 8GB to be memory-starved. Never.

I don't really know what this is owing to — I assume Kaby Lake has a lot to do
with it. I feel like if they could just update the 2015 MBP to the new chips,
we'd be all set again for many years. That's my wish anyway.

For clarity: I returned the iMac after the 15 day trial period b/c I still use
a laptop a lot of the time and didn't want to be managing two computers. I
think I could have used this iMac with just 8GB of ram indefinitely. It was
literally a non-issue for two full weeks of normal, daily working use.

~~~
kitsunesoba
I have a 15” Mid 2015 MBP as my personal machine and a latest model 15” MBP
w/touchbar as my work machine, and while the latter is a bit faster I don’t
feel much of a difference between the two in my day to day. The projects I
work on are small/moderate sized, though, and compiling them doesn’t take too
long. It’d probably be a different story if I were working on WebKit or Chrome
or some other monstrously huge project.

There’s huge performance gap between desktops and laptops though. If the trend
wasn’t so heavily inclined towards laptops as corporate machines I’d prefer a
high end iMac to be sitting on my desk at work instead of an MBP.

~~~
saltcod
How / why are desktops so much better? Wondering what was it that made that
new iMac I bought so much better than this 2015 MBP with just half the ram.
Any ideas?

------
JamesBaxter
If you buy an iPhone today does it come with a USB C or USB A cable can I plug
my new phone into my top of the range laptop?

~~~
rivm
It comes with a lightning to USB-A cable.

~~~
JamesBaxter
That’s crazy to me! I’ll stick with my iPhone 7 and 2015 MBP

~~~
mrpippy
True. I really wish Apple let you walk into an Apple Store and trade a
Lightning-A cable for a Type-C cable.

------
thrillgore
The decision to go to USB-C was the last straw for me. It just means they can
sell overpriced dongles when I have a significant amount invested in
Thunderbolt and HDMI. I went to Asus, and back to Windows. With the Subsystem
for Linux and Docker support, I couldn't be happier.

------
MarkMc
Yes, the keyboard is so disappointing. The plastic of the keys is so thin and
harsh it feels so cheap. Yes, I really miss the inverted T arrow keys - my
right hand can't orientate itself any more. Yes, touch pad was a mistake - a
single tap should change the volume!

~~~
Gaelan
This isn’t as discoverable as it should be, but you can put your finger on the
volume “key” and slide without pressing the button, waiting for slider, then
sliding. I think I actually like adjusting volume on the Touch bar better than
the old way.

~~~
MarkMc
True, but that's not really a 'single tap'. More like 'tap then wait until the
slider appears then drag finger just the right distance'

------
ryenus
Though not so straightforward to find, the 2015 model is still available for
purchase:

[https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs-2015/](https://www.apple.com/macbook-
pro/specs-2015/)

------
blhack
We aren't apple's target market anymore, and these are not "pro" laptops.
They're "pro" iPads.

The target market is upper-middle class/upper class people who want a really
attractive, designer laptop.

Developers have got to be such a tiny niche of Apple's customer base now that
they don't care anymore. Go into an apple store sometime. Try to guess how
many of the people there buying macbook "pros" are software developers.

~~~
robraven
Really couldn't disagree more. So many software engineers at tier-1 tech
companies use apple machines (I'd put the percentage at around 50% depending
on tech stack.)

Walk into any engineering class at a university and you'll likely see the same
ratio, perhaps even further skewed towards macs.

Disclaimer: I own a mac and a pc

~~~
saurik
Even if 100% of those people are using a Mac (and they aren't... I help teach
CS at a University in California and 75% of the people in my intro class this
year have a Windows laptop: I counted, as I was that shocked at how different
this is than five years ago when everyone had a Mac), you first have to show
that there are actually a lot of those people, and there simply aren't...
"engineers at tier-1 tech companies" plus students in "any engineering class
at a university" is a tiny tiny tiny percentage of the market Apple is
optimizing for.

~~~
dontjaywalk
Actually, it's 50%. Count a little closer next time.

------
nunez
I used the tbMBP for a little while earlier this year, and OP is totally right
about the keyboard and touch bar. The keyboard is harder and more awkward to
type on than its predecessors and the Touch Bar isn’t very useful (though it
might be when it comes with Taptic Engine)

------
zitterbewegung
I own the 2017 Macbook Pro 13 inch.

Here is a list of my gripes: 1\. I would like the ability to move the siri
button over a bit so I don't accidentally touch it. (I should probably just
remap this to something else.)

2\. Some issues connecting to my hdmi monitor is slightly unreliable.

Here are the things I like about it. 1\. TouchId is awesome. I use it more
than the Apple Watch unlock feature.

2\. I have never had an issue with missing the esc key. I love the touch bar
because it allows me to dismiss alerts without moving my fingers so much.

3\. I bought some usb-c adaptors for a ergonomic keyboard and tracball mouse.
Logitech came out with a new trackball that is bluetooth so I will probably
switch to that.

4\. Touchpad is amazing I have never had an issue with palm rejection.

5\. I only feel a slowdown when I have an insane amount of tabs open. When
that occurs I'm probably saving too much information in that tab and it should
be closed.

Am I happy with my purchase? Yes.

I love the color. The butterfly switches with less travel allows me to type
faster. The screen is gorgeous.

I prefer the butterfly switches to the previous chick-let.

~~~
sallyfour
You can move the siri button in keyboard settings -> customize control strip
:)

------
benguild
If you go all USB-C, the new models are fine. I think the primary argument is
that Touch Bar sucks and I think it's overall useless to people who are used
to a keyboard being a keyboard that's it... Which is probably all pro users
for the most part.

~~~
Analemma_
> If you go all USB-C, the new models are fine

What if I don't want to go all USB-C, especially since USB-C is a disaster?
[https://marco.org/2017/10/14/impossible-dream-of-
usb-c](https://marco.org/2017/10/14/impossible-dream-of-usb-c) A "Pro"
computer should serve my needs, not the other way around. I'm sick of Apple
breaking things for no damn reason and then acting like I'm the problem for
not just going along with it.

> I think the primary argument is that Touch Bar sucks

That's not the primary argument. Most people who dislike this machine think
the touch bar is at least inoffensive, if not particularly useful. The primary
arguments are:

1\. If you get so much as a speck of dust in the keyboard, it bricks the
machine and requires a >$500 repair, with no guarantees that it won't happen
again the very next day.

2\. The lack of useful ports means you have to carry dongles (at $80 a pop)
everywhere.

3\. They made a perfectly thin-enough and light-enough machine thinner and
lighter, giving it worse battery life for no good reason.

4\. They made a perfectly big-enough trackpad bigger, increasing the spurious
input rate for no good reason.

------
thenanyu
related -- they would do well to add an escape key to the iPad pro hardware
keyboard as well.

------
Tagbert
re:ports

It seems clear that we are heading to a USB-C world but we are not there yet.
There are too many existing devices to which we need connections to just
abandon them. When you reduce both the type and number of ports, you make the
device less versatile. The availability of USB-C is still in transition and
this generation of mackbook should reflect that. include at least one USB-A
port and one display-port or hdmi port. Adding USB-C ports does move things
forward but dropping the others too soon just impedes the function of these
laptops.

------
ggm
Kill the touchbar. Give me a real escape key

------
twarge
2016 MacBook Pro works like a charm for me. It's genuinely more mobile,
smaller, lighter. Low-travel keys are faster for typing for me and don't ever
mark the screen like some older models. Touch Bar is sometime more useful when
using full screen mode with everything else hidden.

If you're accustomed to trackpad scrolling on the mac using a native editor
(TextMate) you are spoiled for life. Everything else feels wrong.

------
mikerg87
i essentially want Apple to give me the capabilities of a thinkpad P51 in the
fit and finish Of a MacBook Pro. I realize they are somewhat beholden to Intel
on this as so many laptops in this class are stuck with 16GB barrier.

------
mmphosis
* A choice of Apple ARM CPU(s) or Intel

* Ditch the keyboard and expand the Touch Bar to become a touchpad: an entire customizable keyboard / input pad

~~~
lj3
Interesting. The virtual click of an apple touchpad would provide some
tactical feedback to recognize "clicking" on individual keys on a flat
surface. The next problem to solve is how to simulate the tactile separation
between keys when you're typing, but not when you're mousing around.

------
csomar
I disagree with a couple points here.

= More ports

No. This should be a strict no. Not including Flash on the iPhone has pushed
the community to adapt. If Apple wasn't blunt, we'll be still stack with these
"plugins". Not that I hate flash but it isn't the right way to do it even if
it is more performant _right now_.

There is no reason to have multiple different confusing ports. And different
kind of cables. Let's stop this and have the whole industry work on a single
type of Port.

= Back away from the Touch Bar

That's highly subjective. Especially that you can opt-out by choosing the
model without the Touch Bar.

I personally like the Touch bar.

~~~
engi_nerd
You keep your world with "one port to rule them all". I need to interface with
a wide variety of old and new devices, and I don't see that changing any time
soon. As old gear of mine breaks, I will upgrade it, but I won't upgrade just
for the sake of moving to USB C.

------
dingo_bat
> Magic keyboard

Are keyboards a big problem on macbooks? I've never heard of anybody having
any problems with the keys.

> Great first-party USB-C hubs

Or just include enough ports on the laptop itself. In my entire life I've
never needed to use a hub for anything.

> More ports

Couldn't agree more. SD card slot, 3x USB-A, 2x USB-C, Displayport, headphone
port, Ethernet port, sim card slot.

> Back away from the Touch Bar

Yeah the touch bar is kind of useless and fucks up the already limited
keyboard. Touch screens are the way to go for the occasional touch usage.

> Nicer charger

Apple's never been great at charging. Iphones have always charged slower than
every other phone on the market. Even their wired charging is slower than my 2
year old Samsung's wireless charging. So yeah, much improvement needed.

