
Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015) - ColinWright
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/16/technology/personaltech/turbotax-or-irs-as-tax-preparer-intuit-has-a-favorite.html
======
stephengillie
I'm annoyed that there is no simple system for the IRS to tell me what I owe,
and let me pay or dispute.

Instead, we play this game where the IRS provides a bunch of complicated
documents, I guess which ones to fill out and submit, then wait 3 years to see
if I was randomly chosen to see if I was correct. So it's very easy to make a
mistake for dozens of years, then suddenly be penalized at random. It's the
worst kind of selective enforcement - random enforcement.

And this is to help H&R Block and others sell "tax insurance", just in case
you're randomly selected for audit and H&R Block was also wrong about which
tax documents to submit.

The IRS have all the data - from employers, banks, Social Security,
unemployment, and other government services. I might have most or all of the
data, and could verify or contest items they have on file. Edit: So the IRS
may not always have all of the data, and would still need a way for us to
submit documents in some edge cases.

~~~
ryanianian
> The IRS have all the data

Not..entirely true.

My 2016 taxes were professionally done, but we somehow forgot to include one
of the something-something-1099 forms from a brokerage firm. The brokerage
reported some RSU stock-sells to the IRS but didn't report the cost-basis, and
so the IRS assumed the cost-basis was $0 and thus taxed the full sale as
income (effectively double-taxing all the RSUs). They just sent a tax bill for
something like $20k plus a bunch of fees and interest.

It's an accounting-error so we won't owe much, but I doubt we would have seen
this mistake if the IRS had just told us a total amount to pay. We have two
tech-job incomes both of which are highly-dependent on equity, so we'd almost
certainly end up getting a CPA to run all the numbers again anyway.

I'm a fan of reducing bureaucracy of double-reporting tax info, but I'm
personally unwilling to trust that the IRS and various banks / brokerage
systems are up to the task of generating trustworthy data (and/or erring on
the side of the taxpayer in situations like this).

~~~
pratheekrebala
I don't think this would prevent you from using a CPA or Itemizing your
return. However, this system could be very beneficial for the 68.5% of the
population that doesn't itemize[1].

[1] [https://taxfoundation.org/who-itemizes-
deductions/](https://taxfoundation.org/who-itemizes-deductions/)

~~~
ryanianian
I think it would still happen with standard/non-itemized deductions. This
particular case was mis-reported income. But agreed that my case (and really
any cases that involve capital-gains) are probably in the vast minority.

~~~
philwelch
Lots of people receive RSU's, and the cost basis issue is extremely common.

------
kartan
I have paid taxes in Sweden and Spain. In both countries, I get a preliminary
tax form with all my data. If I don't want to change anything I just need to
go online. Click Accept. And pay with my credit card the difference between
what my employer pays to the government monthly and the total, around 100$. It
is very efficient.

I have the feeling that apart from lobbying USA loves to hate taxes. To make
paying taxes overly-complicated adds to that feeling. When you only need to
pay 100$ at the end of the year after one or two clicks (or you can get a
paper copy mailed to your home and pay at the bank) makes it less painful.

~~~
cortesoft
This is certainly true. In particular, Americans for Tax Reform (the group
founded by Grover Norquist) lobbies against any attempt at making paying taxes
easier for this reason. Their argument is that people should be constantly
aware of how much they are paying in taxes, and making it too easy would
hinder this.

These groups, combined with tax preparation companies, prevent any meaningful
attempt to make paying taxes easier.

~~~
ryandrake
> Their argument is that people should be constantly aware of how much they
> are paying in taxes, and making it too easy would hinder this.

Which is so stupid because so many people have no idea at all what they pay in
taxes because of employer withholding. I knew more than one coworker who
thought they didnt pay taxes because they get a check back at the end of the
year. They had no idea how withholding worked until I explained it to them.
Note that these were otherwise smart adults (software engineers).

~~~
mikeash
A lot of these people also argue against withholding for this reason. If
people had to write a check every year (or every quarter, month, whatever)
then, the argument goes, people would be outraged at how much they pay and
there would be enormous pressure on Congress to cut taxes.

~~~
millstone
This cuts the opposite way. The practice of withholding and the
overcomplicated code leads Americans to greatly over-estimate how much they
pay in taxes.

Increasing tax transparency would lead to surprise at how little we actually
pay in taxes.

[http://time.com/money/5224749/how-much-americans-pay-
taxes-i...](http://time.com/money/5224749/how-much-americans-pay-taxes-irs/)

------
ghouse
Most of the rest of the world does this.

If you only have W-2 or 1099 income, the government already has all of the
data necessary to complete your taxes using standard deductions. If you have
other income, itemize, or have other circumstances, you can continue doing
your taxes as is.

It is curious that some proponents (in the US) of lowering taxes intentionally
make taxes more complicated so as to make people more opposed to taxes in
general.

~~~
repiret
If by 1099 you mean 1099-MISC, which is what I think most people mean when
they say "1099 income" without an additional qualifier, then the IRS almost
certainly has no idea what detections are available to you, and there may be
taxable things that they don't know about either.

~~~
s73v3r_
I'm willing that in the vast majority of cases they do, and the small minority
of cases where they don't isn't a good enough reason to not do this.
Especially because, if you do fall into that case, you can just file your
taxes as normal.

~~~
repiret
If you get a 1099-MISC, you need to file Schedule C [1]. They can make a guess
at line 1 based on the 1099-MISC, but none of the other lines come with a
counter party filing forms with the IRS to give them hints.

I agree that most people who don't need to file Schedule C, who don't have
investment gains or losses outside of tax sheltered accounts, and who don't
pay for childcare while they work (Form 2441), and who don't have
miscellaneous deductions (which include medical expenses and unreimbursed
employee expenses if they exceed 2% of your income) could have the IRS
correctly fill out their taxes for them. And thats a lot of people, and the
IRS should do it. But the parent comment said "If you only have W-2 or 1099
income, the government already has all of the data," and my point is that
unless they mean something weird by "1099 income," then thats wrong.

[1]: [https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-
pdf/f1040sc.pdf](https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040sc.pdf)

------
jedberg
I pretty sure almost everyone would agree that having the IRS fill out a
return and send it to you for approval would be better (except for the
Norquist zealots that think the IRS would "hide" deductions from you).

Most tax filers have a single W2 income and use the standard deduction, so the
IRS would just send you a form that has that.

For the rest of us who actually don't use the standard deduction, at least it
would help me know which forms the IRS has and what they think I owe them, so
I don't forget anything, or can correct things. I've had incorrect 1099s filed
against me and had no idea for years until the IRS notified me of a
discrepancy.

So yeah, there is no downside to the IRS doing my return and then letting me
amend it.

~~~
jandrese
Sending a pre-filled form that we can append with any deductions would be the
best. Hell, it could be a website. The web is great for filling in forms.

I live in Virginia and about a decade ago we had an online website to fill in
the state taxes. It was so easy. H&R block bought off the legislature to have
it shut down and now they charge one of the highest rates in the nation to
file state taxes for Virginia. The stated reason for shutting it down was to
save money, because $40k was apparently too expensive to save the residents of
the state millions.

~~~
LanceH
I would settle for a list of data that they do have. I hate looking for every
form and hoping it is complete and correct.

I just got a surprise from last year that a 401(k) rollover was (incorrectly)
filed to the IRS as a distribution. No tax form was sent to me, but the IRS
knew all about it and sends me a letter saying I owe them several thousand,
interest is accruing and penalties are about to start. They had this data at
tax time and I could have fixed it all before filing.

------
peatmoss
Having lived in New Zealand where the IRD does this, yes. Yes I would.

If they owe you money, you can file. If you owe them money because they
screwed up, you don’t need to do anything. This assumes pay as you earn,
standard employee status, not entrepreneurial revenue. Easy for the common
case.

~~~
philliphaydon
Kiwi living in Singapore. I prefer Singapore's method of deducting it from
your bank account directly each month, or you pay your own lump sum.

In NZ (and Australia) you have tax withheld, which means the employer holds
your tax, they are not obligated to pay that tax for ( i believe 6 months ) so
they tend to pay 1/4 yearly or 1/2 yearly, leaving the money in their own
account.

In Singapore you get your full salary and you pay it yourself, either via lump
sum, or monthly deductions from your bank account.

------
filleokus
I'm torn on this issue. On the one hand, in Sweden, taxes are extremely simple
to file, and I love it for practical reasons. All work income (even from
multiple part time jobs which someone said would be an issue) is declared by
the employer, almost all saving/stocks/bonds/other stuff resulting in
financial gains are reported by the broker/bank. I think many people don't
change any of the data, almost 1 million (out of a 10 million population) just
send a text message saying basically "Okay!" [0].

On the other hand, this also irks me in some way. It is good that it's so
simple to file it, but at least when just texting an okay it probably hides
just how much people pay in taxes. It's almost the same thing as the fact that
most employers in Sweden just show the taxes they withheld from the salary,
i.e not the significant payroll taxes the company had to pay (which could just
as easily have been shown for/"payed" by the employee).

Regardless of ones opinion on how high taxes should be, and wether one believe
they get good value for their money, I think everyone ought to know roughly
how much they pay. I guess this is the reason why Grover Norquist of the
Norquist pledge [1] tries to stop measures like this [2].

I imagine, if there was interest, it could be done in a way that actually
_raises_ the awareness of how much tax is payed/withheld from people's income.

[0]:
[https://www.skatteverket.se/omoss/press/pressmeddelanden/201...](https://www.skatteverket.se/omoss/press/pressmeddelanden/2017/2017/rekordmangadeklareradedigitalt.5.5c281c7015abecc2e202d8ab.html)
[1]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grover_Norquist#Taxpayer_Prote...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grover_Norquist#Taxpayer_Protection_Pledge)
[2]:
[https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?stor...](https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=521132960)

~~~
masklinn
> I think everyone ought to know roughly how much they pay.

Why do you care? More importantly, why do you want to force people if they
don't give a flying fuck?

> I guess this is the reason why Grover Norquist of the Norquist pledge [1]
> tries to stop measures like this [2].

Grover Norquist tries to stop measures like this because he absolutely hates
the very concept of taxation and has made it his life's work to make taxes as
painful as possible so others will as well. There is nothing benevolent to
Grover Norquist, the man is an intellectual terrorist trying to make countries
fail entirely.

~~~
vernie
You're bound to have issues if your parents decided to name you Grover.

------
simplecomplex
They already do prepare your taxes. They just make you do the same work twice.

~~~
craftyguy
If they do, they are terrible at it. I get 'corrections' from the IRS about
once a year to previous returns, all of which are basically them making an
error and then sending me a bill. Not only do I have to waste time preparing
my taxes, but I have to waste additional time disputing their BS
'corrections'.

~~~
jedberg
Wouldn't it be so much easier if they just sent you all the corrections first
so you could just dispute them once? :)

~~~
craftyguy
That would, in the best case, still require as much effort as filing in the
first place or, in the worst case, require as much effort as I have to do now
because the disputes are a lot of back/forth/waiting with the IRS.

------
rndmize
13 million in lobbying over five years to prevent more efficient tax filing
for an entire nation and protect your business model. Sounds like an amazing
deal for a company with 5 billion in revenue. I'm consistently amazed at just
how little money it takes to buy off the government effectively.

~~~
ritchiea
It's not just that, anti-tax zealot Grover Norquist has outsized interest on
the right and he gets republicans to sign a pledge to not raise taxes, and if
they violate the pledge Norquist raises money and campaigns against them. The
problem is, the pledge also requires signees also do not support legislation
to make paying taxes easier.

The radical anti-tax groups are so anti-tax that they see making it easier to
pay taxes as support for taxes. So they want it to be difficult to pay taxes
to make it easier for them to argue against taxes entirely.

The system is broken in so many places trying to approach it with any
rationality gives you a headache.

~~~
baddox
> The radical anti-tax groups are so anti-tax that they see making it easier
> to pay taxes as support for taxes. So they want it to be difficult to pay
> taxes to make it easier for them to argue against taxes entirely.

I don't know if getting rid of taxes _entirely_ is really a goal for many of
these people, but what you describe doesn't sound that unreasonable. Making
paying taxes easier _does_ sound like support for taxes, right? For example,
if we didn't have payroll deduction, surely there would be more popular
support for tax cuts.

~~~
sokoloff
I’d love to see the end of payroll deductions and to make annual taxes due the
Monday before Election Day.

Doesn’t mean that we wouldn’t have taxes, but we’d have a tight temporal and
psychological link between what we pay and the selections we make at the
ballot box.

~~~
addicted
Actually, the correct temporal link would not be with elections but with
choices you make to use publicly funded roads, breathe clean air due to public
funded regulations, etc.

That's the temporal connection that needs to be made.

The idea that there is a whole host of politicians who want to increase taxes
is ludicrous. No one campaigns on the basis of increasing taxes. Further, in
most of the West, taxes have dropped dramatically over the past few decades.
Most politicians campaign on (1) reducing taxes or (2) providing some
benefits. The dishonest politicians campaigning on #2 are teh ones who claim
you can increase benefits without increasing taxes (which is occasionally true
but rarely). It's only the honest politicians campaigning on #2 who add that
the benefit will indeed have to be paid for by higher taxes.

The politicians increasing taxes are the good guys because they're the only
ones at least thinking about paying for benefits.

~~~
baddox
Very little of the federal budget goes to those things you listed. State
budgets may vary.

------
chatmasta
“Your taxes” is such an overloaded term that it’s almost comical to refer to
it as if it means the same thing for everyone.

There is basically one straight-forward case where the IRS preparing taxes
makes sense: that of full time employees whose only income is from their job
which issues W2s.

For everyone else — which includes:

\- People working multiple part time jobs

\- People with non-standard investment portfolios or real estate holdings

\- Contractors, with or without an LLC

\- Full time employees who are also contractors

\- Dual residents

\- Small retail businesses

\- Small internet businesses

\- Megacorps

— there is a different set of requirements. The idea that the IRS would be
able to optimize everybody’s return so they pay the least amount of tax, is
absurd. And that’s not even considering the moral hazard of misaligned
incentives, i.e. the IRS has no incentive to make sure you deduct as much as
legally possible from your return.

~~~
scott_s
Most people have boring taxes. For those people with interesting taxes, they
can do them themselves or pay someone else to do them. For the exceptional
cases, this is what they already do. Arguing against something that simplifies
an act for most people by pointing out that it doesn't apply to everyone does
not make sense to me.

I think it's almost important to keep in mind that the IRS _already_ does your
taxes. If what they do significantly disagrees with what you do, you have
problems. I would much prefer the IRS just sends me their work rather than me
having to do it, then send it to them for checking.

~~~
nightski
If you have boring taxes this isn't a problem anyways. It's _extremely_ simple
to file if all you have is a W2. It can be done in about 10-15 minutes without
any special knowledge.

~~~
lern_too_spel
I have "boring" taxes with many stock transactions. This is not simple to
file.

~~~
usaar333
Stock transactions make your taxes very not boring. Pub 550
([https://www.irs.gov/publications/p550](https://www.irs.gov/publications/p550))
is one of the most complicated areas of personal income tax.

~~~
lern_too_spel
It is boring for the IRS's computers, which calculate everything the IRS needs
to know automatically from the data sent by my brokerage firm.

~~~
nightski
Right but you are very OT at this point. The parent was arguing that for the
vast majority of people taxes are boring and do not involve 1099-INTs or taxes
on numerous stock trades. While true, these people have the easiest time
calculating their required tax.

No one ever was trying to say that IRS doing your taxes for you would never
make things easier.

~~~
hundt
42M out of 150M tax returns filed in 2015 had taxable interest (1099-INT)

[https://www.irs.gov/statistics/soi-tax-stats-individual-
inco...](https://www.irs.gov/statistics/soi-tax-stats-individual-income-tax-
returns-line-item-estimates)

~~~
scott_s
We're in the weeds here, but 1099-INT are also used for interest on money-
market savings accounts - my guess is a lot of that 42 million filers do _not_
have stock trades. I think W2s and 1099-INTs for money-market savings accounts
still qualify as quite boring.

However, I still claim that even such boring filers would benefit from the IRS
sending out "yea/nay" forms. It removes a lot of the stress and mystery from
the process.

~~~
hundt
You don't have to guess :) About 26.5 million had losses or gains from sale of
property (of which stock trades is the simplest case).

Stock trades are also reported to the IRS, although the basis often isn't.

------
funkaster
In Chile, the government gives you the opportunity to pre-fill all your info.
You could use gov-only accounting tools and at the end of the year everything
is done for you. Just one click and you get your return, this has been true
for 10+ years IIRC. When I moved to the US (7 years ago) I was so overwhelmed
with taxes that I decided to pay for an accountant. This year I used TurboTax
and even though there's a nice "wizard" it still feels overly (and
unnecessary) complex.

As others have stated in comments, there's nothing special about US taxes that
mandate it should be this complex, other than special interests of people
wanting to make things complex for their own benefit.

------
Ftuuky
In my country (Portugal) they do prepare my taxes and so far I can't complain.
Even if something wrong happens you can file for appropriate compensation. Any
payment is concluded in less than 2 weeks.

~~~
fimdomeio
Last year the state introduces fully automated tax filling. It's beautiful. It
took me 2 minutes. On the other hand, if I remember correctly its still a java
app running on the browser where you have to accept an unsigned certificate
and doesn't run on my mac. :/

~~~
Avamander
Estonia's tax system sounds like a heaven now. It took me from start to finish
2 minutes (including software installation add 1min) and can be done on Mac,
Linux and Windows, with Mobile-ID (requires special SIM card) the support
extends to Android, iOS.

------
all_blue_chucks
I would rather audit the IRS than have the IRS auditing me.

------
sologoub
Colleagues from the EU countries who relocate to the US generally tend to have
a two-fold reaction - excitement at the lower tax rates and dismay at the
filing complexities.

Would be amazing to have the cake and eat it too - lower taxes and a simple
filing system!

~~~
rb808
Lower taxes? In France the bracket for a family for €104,120 to €279,132 is
only 30%.

Sure if you live in Oaklahoma you might pay less than that but CA/NY state
taxes plus property taxes, plus fewer investment tax free options, I think US
taxes are now similar or higher. Ie 28% federal + 10% state + 10% property
taxes equals nearly 50%. Sure sales tax is lower.

Plus - you still have to pay for your medical care, and universities and no
social safety net.

~~~
gamblor956
In France, that 30% tax is on your gross income without deductions, and
doesn't include a number of other taxes on your income that were already taken
out as payroll taxes, usually about 10-20% of your wage income.

In the US, you face a 24% or 25% tax on your gross income _after_ deductions,
not including additional credits that may also apply. Payroll tax deductions
are also much smaller in the US.

Not aware of any state which has a 10% property tax and an income tax. I am
aware of some states having high property taxes but no income taxes...

Finally...we do have a safety net. It's a safety net, not a dole like the
European model.

~~~
Xixi
"Charges salariales" \+ "Charges patronales": it's way more than 10-20%. It's
around 28% for a minimum wage worker, and around 45% for a software engineer
making 45k "brut" / year.

~~~
gamblor956
Yes, there are a number of other items also taken out of French payrolls...

------
the-dude
Dutch IRS does this for salary, saving accounts and mortage accounts.

You start your filing prefilled. Works like a charm.

------
Nokinside
In Finland and many other countries they already do this.

They send you tax report already filled and all deductions done based on
information they know. You check it for errors and correct if there is need
and send it back. If you don't send it back, they just assume the default was
OK.

------
alkonaut
Here is the key: the tax code has to be such (so simple) that 50-75% of people
can just quickly look at their return statement, and deduce that "yes this is
right". For example: there should typically be no deductions possible.

It shouldn't require any form of "trust". A person should be able to tell
within minutes that it's correct.

Otherwise the filing method isnt't the problem but the complexity of the tax
code (for the large majority).

------
avar
The "Stanford Professor Loses Political Battle To Simplify Tax Filing Process"
article[1] discussed here a year ago [2] is relevant to this topic, although
in that case it concerned California state taxes.

That article also answers a question many here have ("why don't they pre-fill
the form like <insert EU country here>"). It's because Grover Norquist, the
well known promoter of the "Taxpayer Protection Pledge" took the
counterintuitive view that just making the process easier equated to a new
tax, since taxpayers might end up paying taxes already on the books that they
might have previously unintentionally evaded.

The same applies to any such improvements in the IRS filing process.

1\. [https://www.npr.org/2017/03/29/521954033/stanford-
professor-...](https://www.npr.org/2017/03/29/521954033/stanford-professor-
loses-political-battle-to-simplify-tax-filing-process)

2\.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13990391](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13990391)

------
paws
Intuit's lobbying budget was $2.39 million last year [1], and H&R Block's
$2.66 million [2].

Makes one wonder...

[1]
[https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000026667](https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000026667)

[2]
[https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/lobby.php?id=D000022016](https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/lobby.php?id=D000022016)

------
yxhuvud
Yes. I do it every year, and taxes take roughly 10 minutes to prepare.

And the majority of those is because I'm a part owner of my dads company, so I
have to verify that the given numbers are correct in two forms instead of only
one.

Also note that companies usually prepay part of salaries as tax, so generally
people only have to pay a few K, or receive a few K. Depending on how much is
paid.

Taxes seem complicated in USA.

------
mbrumlow
YES! I WOULD!

It should be they prep it, and I can verify and dispute it if I think they did
it wrong.

------
bcheung
The most time consuming part of filing taxes for me is not the actual filing
or the data entry, it's the gathering of the data. Logging into a bunch of
websites. Calling people trying to figure out how to get the forms. Looking
through folders and old emails, etc.

At a minimum if there was a secure way that we could look that up and then
feed that into tax prep software I think that would save us 80% of the time.

------
intopieces
I want to see a study comparing the two: Return-Free and Traditional. If
return-free ends up with the government collecting more in taxes than the
average traditional+Intuit fees, I would be opposed to it.

I fear that people would consider whatever form the government sent them, with
whatever number it had on it, the final say, resulting in the government not
being accountable for the taxes they collect.

------
doktrin
Yes, and I'd prefer it. TurboTax, H&R and their ilk are unnecessary parasites
feeding off of a diseased whale. The fact that people feel the need to utilize
3rd party solutions just to file completely run of the mill returns is a sign
of a fundamental problem in the system.

------
digi_owl
And once more the supposed nation of the future shows itself to be massively
stuck in the past...

------
jejones3141
If I remember rightly, they had a phone number you could call for tax advice--
probably now it's on a web site--but they wouldn't accept any responsibility
if the advice proved to be wrong.

Given that, no. No way would I let the IRS prepare my taxes.

------
s73v3r_
They already do. How does anyone here think they verify things? They already
have all the information. It's absolute idiocy and stubbornness that causes
people to think that they shouldn't be able to do that.

------
dev_dull
Forget the federal government. I wish this was something states worked out.
After all they collect my taxes on my behalf. I should just be able to fill
out my state return and let them deal with the federal government.

------
xutopia
It's not that simple. Depending on how you spend your money you can have
access to some tax saving measures. You can also make money cash that you have
to declare when filing your taxes.

------
buchanae
I'm an American who was lived and worked in New Zealand in Australia. I
couldn't believe how easy it was to do taxes there, there was basically
nothing to do.

------
trumped
Could be great... and they could give you a few options... ie: filling with
your spouse, itemized deductions, just plain and simple or you're on your own.

------
cozzyd
I screwed up on my taxes last year (read the tax wrong off the table) and the
IRS kindly noticed and gave me the $100 extra in my refund.

------
pnathan
I would absolutely let the IRS prepare my taxes... if this workflow or one
like it is followed:

Jan, I get a 1040 form, prefilled out.

If I don't agree that it states my financial position correctly, I can correct
it & send it back by Mar 1st.

If I do agree, I place it in my file cabinet.

But as patio11 noted, at least once, the IRS enforces taxes to the amount
Americans will tolerate. What he did not say, but I have heard elsewhere, is
that tax evasion is enormous, and pervasive in the cash economy.

which is part of why I favor abolishing cash. :-)

~~~
mox1
This is the irony, that in your scenario (which I agree with), My "check"
would be to purchase Turbotax or similar and run the numbers.

So whether the IRS pre-fills the 1040 or I do it myself, I'm going to use tax
prep software.

I guess they loose the e-filing fees, but most version of the software come
with 1 free federal and 1 free state..

~~~
jonnycomputer
Free, unless you earn too much, or if you have any _any_ business income.

------
darkerside
> “If you’re a typical American and you get this packet from the I.R.S. that
> says, ‘Here’s what we’ve determined your liability is,’ no one is going to
> challenge it,” Mr. Ellis said. “People are scared, intimidated or otherwise
> occupied in their lives, and they’re going to just accept what the I.R.S.
> sends them.”

Patronizing and offensive to Americans

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DeepYogurt
I would love to just get a bill.

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jonnycomputer
In answer to the question, I would have, yes.

My spouse has a business now though, so no.

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mesozoic
Definitely not. It's a conflict of interest. Perhaps for persons with lower
income and simple taxes it would be worthwhile but why would the IRS help me
make use of all of their loopholes?

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triplee
Yes. Next question.

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excalibur
This should probably have a (2015) in the title.

I'm not getting why there's a sudden interest in this. The article is over 3
years old, and it's not even close to tax season.

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sctb
Thanks, we've updated the headline.

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nielsbot
Needs a [2015] tag!

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Karishma1234
As a rule of thumb I would not trust IRS to do my taxes but I am happy if they
send me a draft and I have to just sign or make corrections.

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jkaplowitz
In every country I'm aware of where the government does your taxes, you have
exactly that option to accept (whether explicitly or through inaction) or to
correct. I don't know anywhere that forces you to accept the government's
calculation without a chance to provide your own.

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Karishma1234
In USA too you get W2 and other statements that give you all the numbers.
Things only get complicated when you have several streams of income.

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madengr
I'd rather end all payroll deductions, then everyone must write the IRS a
check N times a year. That way people know exactly what they are paying.

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dudul
Interestingly this is pretty much how it used to work in France up until this
year. No deductions from your paycheck, and on year N+1 you pay your income
taxes for year N. People need to be careful to set aside enough money to be
able to pay these deferred taxes. However, now they are moving to payroll
deductions :)

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dsfyu404ed
Will the IRS take responsibility for the accuracy of my taxes?

I'm not going to trust some 3rd party to do my taxes unless they're
responsible for the accuracy of my taxes. The federal government (government
in general for that matter) does not have a particularly good track record of
not holding other people accountable when it screws up.

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forgotmypw
I stopped filing my taxes starting in 2011 for 2010. I had always hated the
process, but in 2010 I had switched jobs several times, and had misplaced one
of the stubs mailed by an employer.

I have almost always worked as an employee, not a contractor or business, so I
did not owe money--they probably owed me.

I decided that rather than get the couple hundred bucks I would receive as my
return, I will forgo the stupid process altogether.

I have yet to hear from anyone about it, and I have become a little bit
happier by not having to deal with that crap.

In 2014, I gave up income altogether, so I am no longer required to file.
Before then, I guess you could call it civil disobedience.

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JumpCrisscross
> _I guess you could call it civil disobedience_

Willful failure to file is a felony [1].

[1]
[https://www.irs.gov/irm/part25/irm_25-001-007](https://www.irs.gov/irm/part25/irm_25-001-007)

~~~
ada1981
Not exactly.

>> Willful failure to file a tax return is a misdemeanor pursuant to IRC 7203.
In cases where an overt act of evasion occurred, willful failure to file may
be elevated to a felony under IRC 7201. <<

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JumpCrisscross
> _Willful failure to file a tax return is a misdemeanor_

Carrying up to one year of jail time under federal law. States usually have
penalties, too.

> _In cases where an overt act of evasion occurred, willful failure to file
> may be elevated to a felony_

OP is bragging about willfully failing to file on the Internet. Something
tells me proving this wouldn't take a sleuth.

~~~
ada1981
Overt acts of evasion aren’t simply not sending in your paperwork.

It would be actively doing things to hide, falsify documents, etc.

This seems to be mostly for businesses and folks doing a lot of cash
transactions.

Sounds like OP isn’t making much money to begin with — is it really worth the
IRS time or to prosecute him?

I imagine they’d tell him to pay and fine him.

Doubtful it’s a felony based on his description.

