

Ask HN: Can I compete with Basecamp? - eibrahim

I want to build an online project management web app.  Is that a good idea?  Is the market big enough to have yet another PM app?<p>My client's marketing team (15+ people) have tens of basecamp projects and every single one of them hates it...  Have we just been brainwashed to "think" that basecamp is awesome when non-techies actually don't like it but don't see a viable alternative?<p>If I go forward, do I focus on small teams and compete on price?  Or do I go for larger teams (which I think basecamp is too limiting for)?  How about a free site with a marketplace to buy add-ons?<p>Do you like/hate basecamp? Why?
======
toumhi
A question that often comes back: Can I enter <insert saturated market here>?

The answer is it depends :-) There are lots of successful project management
apps. The advantage of an established market is that people already know they
have a problem and are looking for solutions online. On the other hand you
have to really differentiate your product in order to get customers who could
just use Basecamp or any other PM tool. You can't just go and copy Basecamp
and expect people to switch.

So the real question here is what can you make better than Basecamp? You don't
need to make it better in every aspect (and you will burn yourself doing it).
Just find a corner use case where Basecamp doesn't work well enough. There are
probably lots of use cases for which Basecamp sucks. Don't try to solve them
all though.

So it means doing your research. Interviewing people is a good way. Mining
online forums with data is another good one. Find out one strong pain that is
not addressed by Basecamp, and that you could solve yourself. Then build it.

~~~
nayefc
Stress on strong pain. Not _a_ pain.

------
meerita
I strongly believe that to compete against a particular characteristic or
price it will not lead to a successful conclusion. What really wins in this
situation is the philosophy and the flow of application usage. Features can be
in or out anytime. Prices can be high or be lowered later but the core
workflow, not.

Basecamp has changed considerably over the years and the features never
competed against the rest of the competition, but it did in philosophy. Their
software is easier to use than others and that, I think from the evidence
shown, is what people pay.

If you want to compete against them, you have to be different from them in
philosophy. Look Trello and then looks Basecamp. Both are different but they
are made for a single purpose: to work and manage projects. If you compete on
features, one would end up like the other.

~~~
eibrahim
good feedback. thanks.

------
sixofhearts
Here's what I see: you have identified a problem, and the problem is so big
that you are itching to build a solution.

This seems to be independent from your question. Everyone on HN can come up
with a reasonable speculative answer to your question (and mine would be a
"yes"), but focusing on the issues makes clear if it's even worth competing in
the first place.

With the information you provided, you seem to have a solid target market
identified. How many teams are there that, like yours, that could benefit from
a Basecamp alternative? And which of your team's needs aren't met with
Basecamp, and is it something that Basecamp could replicate quickly? Dig a
little bit deeper and discover the specific needs - that should reveal more
useful information than any of us could provide :)

------
xauronx
I did not like basecamp. It felt like a free product but charges pretty high
prices. It felt limited and kind of shabby. Maybe it's because I've heard so
many people raving about it that I expected too much. I'm not sure.

I use Asana now. It's an awesome product for what I need. Their iPhone app is
pretty good. The whole package is free for teams up to 30. I feel like I'm
stealing when I use it, which means that I'll probably have to start paying
for it soon to ease my guilt. I've heard great things about their API although
I've never used it myself.

Can you do it? Yes, but it's going to be difficult. There are innumerable
competitors out there with established names.

------
arkitaip
Hundreds of small businesses compete with Basecamp so of course you can too.
But that's not the important question, this is: why exactly does your client's
marketing team hate Basecamp? Are they too big for Basecamp? Is the usability
too bad? Does it get in the way of their work proccesses?

~~~
eibrahim
They feel like it is too limited and has no useful reporting and that they
can't get good insight into the overall state of all their projects.

I will have to interview them more and will publish the info on my blog
(emadibrahim.com)

------
gamblor956
There are hundreds of CRMs out there, online and off-line, and a good number
of them are successful. The key to competing is to find your niche (audience,
feature, price, technology, etc.) and compete on that.

------
mrgold
I've tried probably a hundred Basecamp alternatives over the past few years
(it's practically a sickness, an obsession) and I still think Basecamp rules.
Why? Because I can organize what's in my brain there, and upload files, make
notes, export, etc. It's also got silky smooth drag-and-drop action.

It's like Evernote meets a todo. A perfect marriage. I also hate it for that
reason. There seems to be nothing else that scratches that itch like Basecamp
does. Drives me nuts.

Also, I don't do collaboration though, so the monthly subscription is a bit
much for me.

I'll answer any other questions you have. Just reply here. I'm practically an
expert on Basecamp alternatives!

P.S. One comes close though, and that's Trello, but Trello doesn't have a good
Windows Phone app (yet), and so I won't use it.

~~~
eibrahim
Thanks for the feedback... I have used basecamp by myself but I am more
interested in the team/collaboration aspect of it.

Other than Trello (which I love) what would be your top 3 alternatives that
come close to basecamp?

What's missing from basecamp that you would love to see?

Are you paying for basecamp? I think they got rid of the free plan... are you
ok with $20/month?

PS: I know exactly what you mean about the sickness of trying tools. I used to
do that with GTD tools. I did RTM for 1 year, omnifocus for 1 year, then built
my own (Taskorami) then finally settled on pen and paper :)

~~~
mrgold
My top 3 basecamp alternatives (minus Trello and in order of preference) would
be:

1) Nozbe - <http://nozbe.com> \- Yes, it's a GTD app but you can also upload
files and keep stuff organized. Very powerful

2) PBworks - <http://pbworks.com> \- Their pricing is screwed up but there's a
lot of flexibility there

3) IQTELL - <http://iqtell.com> \- Promising, I was a heavy user for awhile.
No windows app though

There are many other services that are closer clones to Basecamp like Siasto:
<http://siasto.com> but after using them for a few weeks I realize how far
behind Basecamp they really are. Siasto didn't seem serious about improving
the product either. It was more on autopilot.

Asana: <http://asana.com/> Meh. I'm not sure why, but I couldn't get
comfortable with it.

What's missing from Basecamp? All my emails in one place, like IQTELL. I log
into IQTELL and I get a snapshot of everything that's going on in my life
(pretty much). Killer feature.

I bailed from Basecamp. Using Microsoft OneNote for my projects. Pretty good
actually. There's a lot to love about OneNote.

Btw,I'm okay with paying a monthly fee, but I'd much rather pay a full year in
advance, like with the Microsoft Office 2013 suite. Comes with OneNote and
SkyDrive. Very handy.

Hope this helps. I'll keep an eye out for any other questions you might have.

