
Sixteen Years - _pius
http://metatalk.metafilter.com/23626/Sixteen-Years
======
SwellJoe
I suspect this is a really common situation. Something that is big enough to
be well-known, heavily used by a large enough number of users that it brings a
lot of stress, but is not big enough (by some definition of "big" and
"enough") to support a team to make it all go smoothly.

I've been in that same boat most of my professional career, and in fact I'm
about 16 years into my journey working with the same project (Webmin; which
started out with me having a company that used it in products and then ended
up with me pivoting and starting a new company based around it); I'm lucky
enough to not be the primary developer, and I'm lucky enough to have always
had just enough money to keep an extra support person on staff and
occasionally pay to make some problems go away (translations now and then,
accessibility testing, UI and design assets, etc.), but having some huge
number of people expecting things to always Just Work, and never have security
problems, and never be confusing, and always get better but also never change
in any way that might effect the way they use it, is a definite source of
stress that I don't think people working in large companies will ever
experience (though they experience their own sorts of stress and I don't think
I would trade, even for much better pay).

I've had to step back a few times over the years, in more subtle ways than
this. And, I've spent time on other projects and other jobs (either to make
money or just to have something else to think about and to play with new
languages and tools). But, it's strange to look back on so many years of doing
roughly the same thing.

It's also odd to think of things that have been so clearly defined by their
founder no longer being operated by their founder. This is, I guess, kinda
like Rob stepping down from Slashdot a few years back. Turned out not to
really effect Slashdot all that much (though I don't know how relevant
Slashdot remains today, since I so rarely visit); I wonder if Metafilter has
the team to keep it spinning...it's also a site I haven't spent much time at
in recent years.

~~~
dublinben
>it's also a site I haven't spent much time at in recent years.

This sums up all I can really muster as a response. I used to visit Metafilter
long ago, but I've completely abandoned it for at least a few years. The
submissions just lost their way at some point, and the archaic comment system
was completely surpassed by reddit/HN.

~~~
archagon
That's because Metafilter doesn't have a comment system. It has a discussion
system. The only way to "discuss" anything on Reddit/HN is to yell at each
other from your respective soapboxes. In my experience, linear discussion —
being far closer to in-person conversation — can lead to more interesting
places and actually has the ability to change hearts and minds.

The only places online where I feel a strong sense of community exclusively
have linear discussion.

~~~
maxerickson
How much of that comes from the linearity limiting participation (glibly, an
exclusive community)?

I hope people don't do too much deciding about what does and does not work at
this early date, we've only had about 20 years of large scale internet
participation, and much less of (in the English sphere) near total
participation (total participation matters because people faced with the
novelty of spraying their thoughts at strangers tend to behave somewhat
differently than people who are used to it).

~~~
archagon
Yes, it's good not to lock ourselves into a particular model, and I'm glad
that companies like Discourse are exploring new models of community
discussion.

However, from my own personal experience, I have to say that discussions
become a lot more interesting when they happen in real-time between small
numbers of people. Comments tend to be brief. Topics shift around. People
respond to each other. Interjections happen frequently. Opinions can freely
mix and mingle in this environment, and the end result is a conversation that
can actually go somewhere new.

In threaded discussions, it feels more like people posting their pet walls-of-
text at each other. In some ways, the "discussion" is already set in stone
from the very start. Furthermore, there's a significant penalty to the
upvote/downvote model. It incentivizes groupthink; promotes giant screeds and
quippy jokes; keeps topics firmly segregated; prevents the discussion from
branching out past an initial point.

~~~
maxerickson
I tend to think of this in terms of high context and low context. In that
framework, you are identifying high context conversations as preferable. Given
that the vast majority of human socialization has been high context (Between
people who know much about each other), I don't think this is surprising. It
satisfies our instincts and benefits from our habits.

I don't explicitly talk about it above, but part of what I am getting at there
is that you can't force a high context situation; it either exists, or it does
not.

Maybe the solution is simply to facilitate small groups that discuss things, I
don't know. I think I would be disappointed if that is the case, because it
would make it more difficult for me to access a wide range of viewpoints. The
seemingly overly serious moderation here can probably be described as an
attempt at getting people to acknowledge a little bit of extra shared context.

------
Mz
I don't think it's a sad day for MetaFilter. I think it is another example of
Matt Haughey's wisdom. Knowing your limits and admitting them is hard. It is
something a lot of very otherwise talented people mess up.

It is the end of an era, but I think it makes it more likely that MetaFilter
will continue to be successful and not become a has-been. It is in good hands
with cortex (aka Josh Millard) at the helm now.

------
pronoiac
Context: The founder of Metafilter, mathowie, is stepping down from day-to-day
operations. It's been an oasis for online discussion, and it's down to him. He
ran it by himself for a few years, out of pocket.

------
rsanheim
Metafilter is a shining example of what an established, long-running internet
community can be and what other similar communities should aspire to. The
community, content, and careful moderation is consistently the best of the
'net.

Enjoy some relaxation Matt, you deserve it. :)

------
gilrain
I really respect Matt for stepping back financially, as well as operatively.
If he's not actively working on it, he wants that money to go towards better
moderation and other expenses. Yes, he still owns the site, so anything could
happen in the future. But it's yet another example of why Metafilter is the
best community on the Internet.

------
arkitaip
It's a sad day for Mefi but Matt is such a great guy and deserves his break.
The mod team is very strong and I have no doubt that Mefi will continue to
kick ass in the future.

It's impossible to sum up just how much Mefi means to me but thanks for
everything, Matt. Really.

------
Ollinson
Ask Metafilter and the Metafilter archives are among the most valuable corners
of the internet. Mathowie has been an excellent steward and I wish him the
best.

~~~
asd
Agreed. I don't know how many times where I've had a very specific Google
query return a helpful discussion on Metafilter from many years ago. Here's
hoping they can keep the lights on.

------
MattGrommes
I think it's a good thing for the internet industry to see people publicly
step back instead of pretending to be "killing it" constantly with no human
cost. And I hope the stepping back is good for Mr. Howie, he deserves it.

~~~
kenko
FYI: while his username is "mathowie", his last name is "Haughey".

------
colmvp
As mentioned in this link, 10 months ago, they had let go of three of their
mods, including LobsterMitten (who is coming back onboard):

[http://metatalk.metafilter.com/23245/State-of-
MetaFilter](http://metatalk.metafilter.com/23245/State-of-MetaFilter)

------
mironathetin
"I started reading programming books and attended an intense 3-day seminar and
came out of it building basic web apps. By March of 1999, MetaFilter had a
name and a community … "

The most impressive sentence comes right at the beginning. This shows what you
can do, if you have a goal. All this experience of many years serves only to
tame the big companies rampant systems.

