
Ask HN: Is Facebook still a good place for Software Engineers? - baccheion
Why?<p>1. What&#x27;s the culture like these days?<p>2. How does it differ from what&#x27;s publicized?<p>3. Are they stagnating (or becoming slow-moving) internally?<p>4. Is it still possible to have a meaningful impact (contribute in a relevant way to a major project)?<p>5. In what ways would working at a startup be &quot;better?&quot;<p>6. Does it feel like a large bloated company, or still like a startup?<p>7. How much politics is now present internally?<p>8. What are examples of places that have a better culture, freedom, ability to make an impact, etc?
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doktrin
I don't see how this question can be meaningfully answered as it's currently
phrased. One person's "good place" is another's hellhole. Culture matters, and
plenty of top tier companies and institutions have mutually incompatible
cultures. Likewise, "startups" are not some homogeneous group. There can be an
absolute mind boggling amount of variance between them.

To me, a much more addressable question would be something like "what is FB's
culture like?" or "how much freedom do engineers get to pursue their
interests?". Be specific, or expect shitty responses.

As of right now this question is sitting at 40 upvotes and literally not a
single germane answer. There's clearly some interest here, but someone should
clarify exactly what it is they want to know.

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baccheion
I've added questions to the description. Do they address the issues you have?
Feedback is always welcome.

~~~
doktrin
It helps, but I honestly still think the use of terms like "better" and "too
large" are inherently vague.

Maybe it would be helpful to provide a contrast. Are you trying to pick
between FB and Google? FB and Palantir? FB and a research lab? FB and Uber? FB
and [insert startup here]?

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w1ntermute
I can't say anything about Facebook in particular, but why would a startup
necessarily be better than a big company in terms of politics? Startups can be
intensely political, particularly if there's drama between the founders or
between the founders and the investors. In practice, what matters infinitely
more than the size of the company is _what your direct manager and the people
on your team are like_.

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damon_c
I agree with all the other answers here but I did think of oone thing does set
Facebook apart from other large organizations and maybe makes it more "dev
friendly".

Facebook (as far as I know from that movie) was founded, its code was
originally originally written by, and it continues to be majority controlled
and owned by (at least at some point in time) an actual programmer. That is
something that is not really the case at many double digit $billion
corporations and may give Facebook a marginal benefit as a "good place for
Software Engineers" as long as those conditions remain in place.

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pbalau
Since you are changing the questions, I am going to copy them.

Q1. What's the culture like these days?

A1. Afaik (I've been here for only ~1.5 years), its exactly as it was before.

Q2. How does it differ from what's publicized?

A2. Not sure. What exactly is publicized? Do you guys know about the unicorns
we get every so often?

Q3. Are they stagnating (or becoming slow-moving) internally?

A3. This is a definitely no. One of the teams I used to be part of, got
reorganized since the project they were working on (after I left) didn't
produce the results expected. All of this took less than 6 months.

Q4. Is it still possible to have a meaningful impact (contribute in a relevant
way to a major project)?

A4. Yes.

Q5. In what ways would working at a startup be "better?"

A5. In NO way. Unless is my own startup.

Q6. Does it feel like a large bloated company, or still like a startup?

A6. The options aren't just "startup" and "large bloated company". There is at
least one "large lean company", which is Facebook (at least for now).

Q7. How much politics is now present internally?

A7. As opposed to when?

Q8. What are examples of places that have a better culture, freedom, ability
to make an impact, etc?

A8. My startup, that doesn't exist yet :P

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baccheion
1\. What is the culture like? 2\. How much politics and bureaucracy is present
in general?

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pbalau
1\. Not sure what "culture" means in this context, since the first company
that actually talked about such a thing was FB for me, but, we get lots of
free stuff and generally higher ups don't really mess with what I am doing.

2\. Not that much, since most management is ex devs: if you convince your
immediate manager about something, there is a big chance for what you want to
happen. Also, we use extensively groups and such (read Fb groups) and this
makes it easier to convince people that you are right. Having the data to back
you up helps too.

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Scuds
That question is almost meaningless 10000 employee organization with many many
moving parts. Some teams will be the best you've ever worked with, some might
be the worst.

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ochronus
A friend and ex-colleague of mine joined Facebook recently - I visited him
after ~2 months and he really loves working there. His words: the culture is
great, most of the "mundane" problems are already solved (communication,
monitoring/alerting, tooling, etc.) so they can focus on real problems and the
company is very strongly technology-led. We were working together in a mid-
sized startup before with also amazing culture and cool guys around.

Now, your questions (I'll answer what I can):

1\. open, transparent, very technologically led

3\. he feels the opposite

4\. yes, definitely, the way the company works enables this (teams come up
with their own projects, agenda)

6\. it definitely feels like a huge company but it's not bloated.

Bottom line: if you're thinking about joining, I'd recommend doing so, even if
you won't want to stay there for many years it's going to be an awesome
experience and learning plus you get to see from the inside how a huge but
still engineering-driven company works.

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codeonfire
As an engineer you need to stay where there is green. Big companies like
facebook don't need you. They are the big oak trees and you're a little green
leaf trying to sustain all that mass of branches and trunk beneath you
desperate to soak up whatever energy you photosynthesize. Facebook may want
you for lots of wrong reasons, but they don't need you. You want to work
somewhere where you are absolutely necessary for the business. I'm not saying
facebook is bad, but there are tons of up and coming companies where things
are very green and they still need engineers. What are the downsides to
working at a big company? You're going to get burned at some point because
you're not really necessary and the value that some manager gets by burning
you is greater than that of keeping you.

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geofft
> You want to work somewhere where you are absolutely necessary for the
> business.

Eh. Some days I'm just out of it. I can promise you I can do the heroics
tomorrow and solve the problems nobody else can solve, but today I just didn't
get enough sleep (or whatever) and I'd like to go through my backlog of low-
mental-energy tickets for a bit, thanks. If in a few years you decide you
don't need me, that's fine; I never defined my identity in terms of you
anyway, and I can go somewhere else.

I've done the thing of being absolutely critical for a startup. It leads to
things like being on 6 AM debugging calls with a customer around the world,
getting urgent calls when you're on vacation, etc. If you enjoy it, by all
means, go for it. But it's not universal to enjoy it, and there are plenty of
jobs where you can provide a ton of value between 9 and 5.

There are plants that thrive in the middle of open fields; there are plants
that survive on the rainforest floor. What's good for one isn't necessarily
good for the other.

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mathandheroin
1: I quit fb because the culture in the team I was on was toxic as fuck.
Backbiting, backstabbing and oneupmanship. Ain't got no time for that. Fb does
not need you and everyone makes it very known. 2: Dunno, dont read about FB
since I gives no fucks about them. 3: The team I was on was stagnant as fuck.
Lots of bragging but little showing. 4: Probably if you want to put the effort
in to get noticed. 5: Cant say for sure, the question is largely subjective.
6: Definitely feels like a large bloated company to me. 7: Lots of politics.
Blahhhh. 8: I work for a consulting company now. Much more freedom. Every
project has huge impact and I make about 45% more than I made at FB with
potential to accelerate my compensation by delivering sooner than deadlines.

TL:DR Fuck FB.

edit -- I worked at FB for two years.

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Jach
Did they try to keep you on board when you announced you were quitting, or was
it the case of "okay, see ya" because they don't need you? My current company
makes it very easy to switch teams at the boundaries of a release if you can
find a team you want and that wants you (and has headcount), which is a lot
easier than actually searching for a new job while still getting you out of
toxic teams/hierarchies. I'm not sure how common this is at other BigCos.

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ilostmykeys
Everyone already works for Facebook. Every status update, every photo/video
you upload, every like and every comment, you are working for Facebook.

So how does that feel? Does it feel good? If it does, you will probably enjoy
working there, but "probably" is the keyword.

For me personally, i often find that the code and UX a company produces tells
a great deal about their mindset and what type of culture they belong too.

But that's just me. I do judge a book by its cover. I have aesthetic standards
:)

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johnmyleswhite
Yes.

