

Adobe CTO on Flash for Mac - pieter
http://blogs.adobe.com/conversations/2010/02/open_access_to_content_and_app.html#comment-2137153

======
Groxx
Apple is certainly blocking Adobe despite being able to run Flash on a machine
like the iPad. The reason for this isn't because it _can_ run, it's that it
can't run _well enough_ to not break the flow of the device, making it feel
slow. Most mud being slung back and forth seems to be ignoring this.

To a large degree, I agree with this choice, and I welcome Flash's demise (if
it happens) in favor of something more open / capable / faster. Flash serves
unique needs which have now largely been done better by other tools.

Apple is all about _feel_ , and as they absolutely cannot control the quality
of the flood of old / crappy flash apps that will grind the machine to a halt
if they enable it, they've decided to block it outright. It fits perfectly
with their App Store model, where they can ensure programs run quickly enough.
Whether you agree with the App Store model or not is another issue entirely,
Apple is being merely _consistent_ in all this.

~~~
godDLL
On equal terms there is also the issue of Apple's control over the software
that iPhone OS devices run. Adobe's Flash includes an interpreter, that _will_
be used to deliver applications to devices circumventing the AppStore.

While Apple officially supports scripting WebKit and extends it ever deeper
into iPhone OS APIs, I don't think they'll be willing to take on a similar
venture with Adobe's Action Script.

------
nzmsv
"These crashes you are seeing do not exist. The 100% CPU usage is likewise an
illusion. Also, Google is evil. Believe me!"

~~~
wensing
Could it be that some crashes are the fault poor programming and not the Flash
Player itself?

I can eat up 100% of your CPU with Python.

~~~
tlrobinson
Flash video performanc is awful on OS X and Linux. That is entirely Adobe's
fault.

~~~
godDLL
An Intel Core2 Duo Mac Mini, with no graphics card to speak of (so this
couldn't skew the results even theoretically) plays 720p H.264 YouTube-encoded
videos with ~9% CPU usage, and no hiccups, the frame-rate is evenly
distributed, every frame lasts for whatever time it should. Compare and
contrast with the Flash decoder, that ceilings at about 70%, and plays un-
evenly, even on a frame-by-frame level -- there is no way of telling how much
time a given frame is showing on the screen.

That's why many will use Rentzsch' Click-to-Flash WebKit plug-in, to block all
Flash permanently and play H.264 movies natively.
github.com/rentzsch/clicktoflash

Here's another one, this time from Firefox for Maemo RC3:

> We’ve decided to disable plugin (not to be confused with add-ons, which are
> supported) support for this release. The Adobe Flash plugin used on many
> sites degraded the performance of the browser to the point where it didn’t
> meet our standards.

~~~
jdowdell
Sounds like didn't read the linked info either.

For Maemo, see earlier on Hacker News:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1090855>

------
elrodeo
> Flash has been incredibly successful in its adoption, with over > 85% of the
> top web sites containing Flash content and Flash > running on over 98% of
> computers on the Web.

Oh really? I've disabled Flash on all my browsers a week ago and don't even
notice that I'm missing so much web-content!

~~~
stuff4ben
My guess is that 85% number is actually referring to a majority of that
content being flash-based ads. So both of you are right.

~~~
Psyonic
That poses an interesting question: A certain amount of people here think that
using ad-block is wrong, because you are denying that site revenue, etc. I
don't want to rehash that argument, but what I'm wondering is do they feel the
same about not installing flash? You're still blocking a lot of ads, but the
main difference is you're choosing not to install something, rather than
installing something extra to block things.

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maxklein
If they are having problems reproducing the crashes, they should pay for me to
send my MacBook to them - it is 100% reproducible every single time. I
actually installed Windows on a partition, and I boot in there to play flash
video.

I open a video site. I try to jump to a location in the middle of the video.
It crashes.

And of course, if you play 3-4 videos, the MacBook will decide to switch
itself off because of overheating.

~~~
tseabrooks
Obviously it's the macbook's fault - It's not designed to play that many
videos...

/sarcasm

------
danlove
I have to say Kevin is doing an incredible job remaining collected and
professional even amongst the unprofessional comments from both the pro-Flash
and anti-Flash.

~~~
tjogin
He's saying that all the problems that all of us have with Flash on a daily
basis actually do not exist. We're just imagining all of it, all of us. That
is not doing an incredible job, it's just not listening.

~~~
jdowdell
Try actually reading what was said, instead of rephrasing it according to some
internal narrative.

~~~
tjogin
No matter how hard you try, no matter how long you try; you will never _ever_
be able to convince the people of the internets that Flash _isn't_ a crash
prone performance hog.

~~~
jdowdell
Most people don't think it is. That's why everybody uses it.

Crashing seems to be mostly directly correlated with pseudonymous Apple-
polishing on webforums.... ;-)

(btw, if you're sincerely trying to improve your own experience, there's a
quick set of diagnostics here:
[http://blogs.adobe.com/jd/2010/02/troubleshooting_player_sta...](http://blogs.adobe.com/jd/2010/02/troubleshooting_player_stabili.html)
)

~~~
tjogin
People don't use Flash because they like it, they use it to view the content
that requires it. It astonishes me that you don't understand this.

Like I said; no amount of effort on your part is going to make us forget our
experiences with your suck ass plugin crashing our browser every day.
Thankfully, there are Flash blocker plugins that make this a more rare event.

Your inability to understand this _does_ explain why Flash is getting worse
instead of better though. So thanks for that.

