
Ask HN: How to hire digital nomads nearby? - schtono
Here&#x27;s a real problem that no one seems to have solved yet: In my company, we would need temporary help with a certain technology for a few months.<p>Freelancers in my city are fully booked. Yet I don&#x27;t want to hire somebody remote because the job requires people to work closely together in the same room on a regular basis.<p>I know there&#x27;s a ton of &quot;digital nomads&quot; out there, travelling through cheap countries like Thailand, working from nice beaches.<p>But my city (Munich, Germany) is also very lovely, especially in summer. I cannot find any &quot;marketplace&quot; where digital nomads hang out, waiting to be attracted by an amazing company like ours. The typical freelancer marketplaces like upwork don&#x27;t seem to cover my search requirements.<p>Questions:<p>- Am I simply missing a marketplace?<p>- Or is this an opportunity to take?
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bitL
Digital nomads, not remote... Doesn't compute.

Why would any real digital nomad that could spend every month at a different
place around the world want to get stuck in Munich in subpar and overpriced
housing with only 2-3 months a year of bearable weather and deal with German
tax bureaucracy (need to have at least 2 clients in parallel or be forced to
register themselves as a single person business with all the increased taxes
and no corporate veil), not to mention that it would take years to find just
one real German friend for normal social interactions?

~~~
lm28469
> not to mention that it would take years to find just one real German friend
> for normal social interactions

That's factually false and incompatible with your previous statement.

> could spend every month at a different place around the world

~~~
bitL
I don't see any link. You e.g. go to Barcelona or Rio de Janeiro and you get a
bunch of friends the moment you walk out of the door of your apartment
(figuratively ofc), whereas in Germany it takes years to develop any closer
relationship that could be qualified as something more than superficial
friendship (i.e. nobody cares, unless you are useful in some way right away),
and even those often get abruptly terminated in 15 minutes for whatever silly
reason. In other words, for the month or year you spend in Munich, you won't
make any friends unless super lucky, it'll be just about work unless you want
to surf on a river or watch Bayern in action, etc. and "socialize" that way.

Germany is also the only place I am aware of where two colleagues sharing the
same desk at the same company for 20 years still address each other formally
in Höflichkeitsform all the time (this is absolutely funny to people from
Netherlands).

~~~
lm28469
> go to Barcelona or Rio de Janeiro and you get a bunch of friends the moment
> you walk out of the door of your apartment

I lived in California for a while, everyone is seemingly your friend, but
really no one is it's just the bro culture (for a lack of a better term).

Smiling and sharing a beer isn't being "friends". Now yeah, if your definition
of friendship is socialising with random people in the street avoid Munich.

> Germany is also the only place I am aware of where two colleagues sharing
> the same desk at the same company for 20 years still address each other
> formally in Höflichkeitsform all the time

Dude, really ... did you work for the Deutsche bahn in 1982 or something
similar ?

If anything my social life is better both in and out of work in Berlin than it
was in mountain view / LA. I'm not saying it's bad in other places but Germany
isn't as you describe it.

~~~
bitL
> I lived in California for a while, everyone is seemingly your friend

I agree it's not ideal in California (arguably similar to Germany wrt random
quality, but without the perpetually angry faces though with fake smiles
exposing whitened teeth). Still, it used to be a bit happier place and there
is a large choice of (sub)cultures one might fit in better, and one can focus
on real bleeding edge work whereas in Germany foreigners aren't really trusted
with working on cool things/hit glass ceiling quickly.

> Dude, really ... did you work for the Deutsche bahn in 1982 or something
> similar ?

I was told that by some Dutch guy who couldn't believe it, but that's what he
experienced (I think he mentioned Siemens or a similar large co).

> If anything my social life is better both in and out of work in Berlin

Berlin is a huge outlier ("Arm aber sexy"), and probably the only cosmopolitan
city in Germany that attracts young/creative people (Frankfurt is not for the
young). Miami on the other hand is IMO way above Berlin/LA when it comes to
social life (unless you are super rich, but then your tastes are completely
different).

Also, regarding "friendships", they were either based on how useful you were,
or how much dominated you could be, e.g. I remember playing
tennis/squash/badminton with German players and the friendships lasted only
while I allowed them to win; the moment I decided "* it" and played as good as
I could, the "friendships" disappeared quickly. The thing is they do it even
to each other unconsciously, so it's pointless to discuss this with them, as
there is no awareness.

------
onion2k
_Yet I don 't want to hire somebody remote because the job requires people to
work closely together in the same room on a regular basis._

Does it _really_?

~~~
DoofusOfDeath
For the sake of everyone involved, I suggest a company is remote either
entirely or not at all. So if everyone else is in the office, I would consider
being in the same room a requirement.

~~~
stephenr
That doesn't reflect reality at all.

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linuxftw
There's no opportunity IMO. Nobody wants to move to high COL place temporary
for contract work. That is literal worst-case scenario unless you plan on
paying for a year's worth of salary for those few months to justify the added
expenses for the consultant.

Don't be cheap. Hire a consulting firm that specializes in your area if you
need on-site help. Or, if you want to be cheap, learn how to support remote
work.

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robjan
A lot of digital nomads don't actually have the right to work in the country
in which they are located

~~~
stephenr
Ssshhhh. You're killing the good vibes man. Don't let pesky things like laws
get in the way of a good time.

Every time "digital nomad" comes up, there's an argument about "well that law
is stupid, it deserves to be broken"... by foreigners breaking a law in some
country they aren't a resident.

I wonder how many would be happy to also see the US/EU/AU etc also flooded by
foreigners who turn up, and work illegally for ridiculously more than the
locals do, without paying local taxes?

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akg_67
Create a coworking space, offer space for meetups, promote to digital nomads,
offer free/discounted use of coworking space to digital nomads.

I saw this strategy working in Japan. Several IT companies have coworking
space that can be used for ¥100 to ¥1,000 per day.

You don't care about digital nomads in ROW, you care about digital nomads
visiting your city, you need a way to find and connect with them.

~~~
vincvinc
Could you share a few examples of this kind of coworking space in Japan? Very
interesting!

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dyeje
Digital nomads are digital nomads because they want a certain amount of
freedom. I don't think many of them would be interested in your proposition if
it requires them coming into your office. Perhaps reconsider your stance on
remote, you might be surprised by the results.

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thiago_fm
It's a hell to be a freelancer software dev in Germany.

People can make much more money by doing that in London, which has proper/more
flexible laws.

I think you could hire a consultant. There are some great consultancies in
Germany that might be able to have the professional you need.

~~~
sam_lowry_
As tax resident, it's a hell, but someone living and having existing business
in Greece or nearby Belgium could actually work in Munich legally for up to
half a year and do some nice tricks like paying the rent via the company.

~~~
badpun
Not exactly... From what I've heard, as long as you're staying in Germany
(i.e. it is your primary residence) and you work there, they believe you
should pay taxes there. The 183 days rule is more for cases when you have two
comparable residences at the time (and you travel back and forth between
them).

Of course, people try their luck and contract using their non-German
companies, but I've read on some forum that at least one guy was prosecuted
(as in criminal charges, not to mention the taxes owed + fines) by Germans for
that.

A thing some people I know do is to fly into Germany every week for 3 or 4
days, stay in a hotel/airbnb, and then come back to home country (BTW, talk
about carbon footprint of the tax laws...). This way, you have no residence in
Germany at all, and also you're there for less than 183 days per year, so they
really have no claim to your taxes. Of course, this "bedouin" lifestyle is not
for the weak, and the company needs to be open to it (the partially remote
work aspect) as well.

~~~
rahimnathwani
"This way, you have no residence in Germany at all, and also you're there for
less than 183 days per year, so they really have no claim to your taxes."

Be careful with this. I don't know about Germany in particular, but in many
countries tax residency isn't as simple as whether you were present for >=183
days.

Take the UK as an example. The relevant legislation (Finance Act 2013) defines
a 'Statutory Residence Test'. It's complicated enough that HMRC (UK equivalent
of IRS) created a booklet to help you understand how it applies in your own
situation.

That booklet is _105 pages_ long:
[https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rdr3-statutory-
re...](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rdr3-statutory-residence-
test-srt)

Even if you spend only 3 days/week in the UK, it's possible to become tax
resident there, and is more likely if you do it for 2 years in a row.

~~~
badpun
Thanks. The possibility of being „caught” is quite low in this scenario I
think, as HMRC has little chance of even finding out about your existence -
you don’t have an UK address or a bank account. You ARE frequently crossing
the border, but I don’t know if they have access to this information.

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toomuchtodo
Perhaps the problem is your company can't manage remote workers effectively?
It is very rare work must be done with everyone colocated unless physical
hardware is involved.

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Qwertystop
I would expect that most people who are "digital nomads" are doing so because
they can do their work from anywhere, not because they're looking for a job.
If the lifestyle of "work on a laptop while traveling the world" appeals to
someone, they're probably not looking for a job that requires staying put and
working in an office for a few months.

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SerLava
It sounds like you're going to have to figure out how to do remote.

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somada141
Have you had a look at [https://nomadlist.com/](https://nomadlist.com/)? I
recall seeing something like chat groups by location.

I’m sure a lot of the concerns other people raised re working rights and legal
complexities are valid but it’s not fair to assume that no nomad would be
willing to take a break and hang around Munich for a few months.

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chatmasta
Have you considered incorporating in a digital nomad hot-spot country
(Thailand comes to mind), renting an office in a co-working space there, and
hiring multiple nomads into it at once?

It would be nice if remote companies provided co-working office space for
their employees / contractors. And at that point, you may as well hire two in
the same place.

~~~
stephenr
Sounds like a good way to get arrested, fined and/or jailed, deported and
barred from re-entering the country.

Edit: before someone complains "s/he said incorporated". Yeah, but are you
_really_ going to fuck around getting 4 local Thai staff for every "nomad" you
want to sponsor for a business visa and work permit, only for them to fuck off
3 months later?

It defeats the purpose. You may as well just hire local staff - you can pay
them less than a foreigner and still be above local wages, no visas, no work
permits (well except your own, which having local staff would _help_ )

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bayareanative
"Butt-in-seat"-mentality is a big, artifical problem. Anywhere that practices
it isn't worth dealing with.

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danroc
What about platforms like [https://remoteok.io](https://remoteok.io) or
[https://nomadlist.com](https://nomadlist.com) ?

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wprapido
What's stack you're looking for and what problems are you trying to solve? I'm
not in Munich, but I wouldn't mind spending a few months there and I'm
available.

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janbernhart
Not a marketplace, but LinkedIn should give you insights of freelancers in
Munich easily.

google (and and the tech key words you like)

site:de.linkedin.com/in "munich area" freelance

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nolite
What kind of job are you doing "requires people to work closely together in
the same room on a regular basis" ? Geniunely curious

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ahazred8ta
[temporary help with a certain technology]

Does this technology have a name? And can you explain why it's not reachable
over a network?

