
LegalFling – Explicit sexual consensus backed by Blockchain - dsr12
https://legalfling.io/
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Nuzzerino
This is actually an interesting idea in theory. However, from the looks of it
(and I may be wrong), pressing an "I consent" button only proves that you
pressed the button. If somebody can be coerced into having sex, why can't they
be coerced into pressing a button on an app?

As a corollary: if two parties did have consensual intercourse, and also
consent via the app, then what's stopping anybody from falsely accusing the
other of rape, AND falsely stating that they were coerced into pressing the
button? Since there's a hard paper trail, this could actually lower the
barrier to making a false rape claim.

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valuearb
I think the blockchain is super interesting and will lead to many useful
implementations. But advocates sure like to get all whacky over it.

If your partner can prove you consented at 1 am, it doesn't mean you stopped
consenting 30 seconds later. This is a total non-solution for a non-problem.
If you want a "paper trail" have your partner text you "I want to have sex
with you right now" before removing undergarments.

~~~
greensoap
Still doesn't remove the ambiguity of whether the consent is real consent.
Look at the Louis CK cases, those women "consented" but only because they felt
unable not to consent.

~~~
stcredzero
So in cases like the Louis CK and Harvey Weinstein scenarios, the women would
take out their smartphone and inform the other party to look at the app?

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hprotagonist
From the FAQ:

 _Can I still change my mind?

Absolutely. "No" means "no" at any time. Being passed out means "no" at any
time. This is explicitly described in the agreement. Additionally you can
withdraw consent through the LegalFling app with a single click._

So, Yes means Yes except when it means No, which is a state that by definition
cannot be reliably updated into the "smart contract" (because the party
involved is unconscious).

"Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig; es ist nicht einmal falsch!"

Congratulations, you've created a system with the surface appearance of trust
but is in fact entirely undefined, and used it to reflect state of a highly
fraught and complicated social situation.

~~~
qubex
I haven’t looked at this yet, but my gut reaction is that this is absolutely
ludicrous… I’m answering you because your gut reaction seems to be similar to
mine.

What happens if somebody consents and then decides to toggle the status later?
What if somebody is coerced into it? What if while raping somebody also gets
their phone stolen and the ‘contract’ toggled?

What if somebody is OK with some activities but not OK with others and they
get forced onto them?!

Not that I support this but… what if somebody wants to remain anonymous? What
if somebody doesn’t want their blockchain litany of conquests and trysts to be
totalled up?!

This is just so wrongheaded I am stunned.

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calewis
This _has_ to be a joke? I have no idea where to start. Just learn how to
interact with other humans properly.

~~~
qubex
Alas I fear it is serious. I’m almost lost for words.

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gt_
From the FAQ:

 _Is this legally binding?

The application generates a Live Contract, which is a legally binding
agreement. Just remember, the point of app is about setting clear rules and
boundries, not breaking them. To which extend the contract holds up in court,
depends on your country of residence.

Can I still change my mind?

Absolutely. "No" means "no" at any time. Being passed out means "no" at any
time. This is explicitly described in the agreement. Additionally you can
withdraw consent through the LegalFling app with a single click._

Having expected more blockchain based proof-of-record applications, I don’t
think we’ve seen courts support blockchain proof-of-record and I’m looking
forward to how this will play out. Surely court decisions will not be swayed
by just any blockchain implementation. Most of these so far (TRON, PO.ET, both
still in development) are storing proofs on the Bitcoin or Ethereum network.
Will this be upholdable in court? Will governments settle on a network or
collection of networks to use for legally defensible proofs? Will this be more
a matter of attorney legwork? It seems the market could be enormous for these
sorts of applications.

~~~
stcredzero
_Having expected more blockchain based proof-of-record applications, I don’t
think we’ve seen courts support blockchain proof-of-record and I’m looking
forward to how this will play out._

I know for a fact that South Carolina has a law making a row in a SQL database
a legal representation for a contract for Property and Casualty insurance. I
bet there are tons of laws on the books like this. Why aren't tech types like
us lobbying legislators at the state and national level to modify such laws to
include such records on the blockchain?

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divbit
Perhaps we can start with reflecting our societal beliefs w'r't' this stuff
via our media to reinforce peoples logical deductions of how to act in these
areas. E.g. I think a friend showed me one of the 'revenge of the nerds'
movies when I was fairly young, which, if you think of from a perspective this
post is advocating, is basically just a movie about people being completely
terrible, I guess. I mean, our brains are maybe basically similar to high
capacity neural nets, especially before they gain the ability for logical
reasoning (or if lost this ability for whatever reason via old age or idk, but
seems possible), and thus gain an idea of 'what is acceptable' through the sum
total of all relevant situations put in. This would be sort of an application
of HN style tech to improving such situations on a more statistical level (I
guess), rather than rigidly coding human behavior into a blockchain.

I mean, it would be nice, for the sake of all the people growing up today, if
you took something like 'Total Recall' at 5:00 minutes and had them explicitly
and robotically ask each other for consent. I think that would do a whole lot
more good than having your tinder fling download a 20 gb blockchain onto their
cellphone before the date. (Sorry to slightly make fun of this - I think the
idea is good actually, and haven't played with it enough, but just wanted to
make a point in this direction).

To address this app specifically though- wouldn't such an app not really
matter in the direction of: you can always say 'no' during the course, and
then the required behavior is to stop. I'm not sure if that would be reflected
very well in the app, since the person could point to the consent and say it
was given, when in fact, it may have initially been given, but the more
important point was that it was (maybe the word is ) rescinded .

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maze-le
How can this be [flagged] for no obvious reason? If it is real it should be
valid to discuss apps like this and the inherent flaws of blockchain contracts
that come with it. If it is satire, its even more appropriate to discuss it
(since that was the obvious goal of it).

~~~
nathanaldensr
I think flagging articles is being done sometimes for the same reasons as good
comments are downvoted--"I don't like this article, therefore flagged."

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kjullien
New Black Mirror season anyone ? It's only been like 2 weeks and this it is
already coming to life. Can't wait for 2018...

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0wing
Blockchain does nothing to solve a malicious publisher submitting incorrect
data.

In this case, someone could be druged against their will and coerced into
installing this app. In the case of other similar supply chain verification
blockchains, the publisher could simply lie.

~~~
qubex
As somebody else pointed out in the comments, this is a “standard problem”
with all systems of “smart contracts”. There’s no equivalent of a Notary
Public to assess that your identity is accurate, you’re not being
impersonated, you’re not obviously subject to undue duress or coercion, and
are not out of your mind. I think that makes this application in particular
pretty pointless (if you can get somebody drunk enough to get them into your
bed, you can probably cajole them into swiping something on their phone’s
screen beforehand).

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fellellor
Is it just me or does the guy on the front look a bit like Kevin Spacey?

