
Terms of Service; Didn't Read - dz0ny
http://tos-dr.info/
======
IvyMike
Step 1: Write a .dll that interposes on common windows controls used to
display EULA messages.

Step 2: Whenever this .dll sees common EULA agreements, it randomly modifies
them before displaying them. Changes "SHALL" to "SHALL NOT", changes "GPL" to
"Public Domain", changes "may not be duplicated" to "ok to post to piratebay",
etc.

Step 3: Embed this DLL in a self-replicating, self-destroying virus/worm. It
spreads, stays on a computer for a random amount of time, then erases all
evidence it was ever there.

Step 4: "Your honor, there's no way of knowing _what_ I agreed to, since there
is no permanent record and the current license does not match what I remember.
Perhaps I had the EULA-modifying virus at the time."

~~~
snarfy
Step 4 does not matter when every EULA starts with 'This Agreement may be
modified at any time'. What's the point of having contracts with terms like
that?

~~~
hugbox
Judges typically strike down EULAs with provisions like that, at least in the
states. So really, if they try that, it just makes it easier to ignore the
EULA.

------
contingencies
I used to look at Steam as a good example of DRM; works, does what it says on
the cover, cross platform, etc.

Then I bought 'Dwarfs!?' for OSX. I painstakingly downloaded 1.5GB on a third
world connection. And it didn't work. Not just "had issues" or "crashed
sometimes" but literally _didn't even start_. Multiple complaints through
Steam forums, the developer's forums, etc. came to nothing. Emailing the
developer personally with an appeal to resolve the issues also came to
nothing.

And they have a 'no refund' policy.

What a scam!

As much as I love Bitcoin, here's an example of a situation where credit cards
provide some protection for the consumer; I can issue a chargeback on the
transaction.

~~~
nacs
Sorry but I'm not seeing the relevance of this post to OP.

So a single game didn't start/work for you on Steam so not only is all of
Steam and their DRM broken and a scam but Bitcoin is somehow also slighted as
a result?

~~~
contingencies
Steam terms are highlighted in the post.

Bitcoin is an area of interest to the wider community that effects the removal
of financial services terms.

The example highlights that simplistic financial services sometimes fail to
meet consumer expectations.

------
meomix
The killer of this site to me:

Nothing here should be considered legal advice. We express our opinion with no
guarantee and we do not endorse any service in any way. Please refer to a
qualified attorney for legal advice. Reading ToS;DR is in no way a replacement
for reading the full terms to which you are bound. Disclosure: a list of
donors and supporters is published. All legal information and Imprint.

\----------- Get me a service with real lawyers writing up info and now you
have something.

~~~
SEMW
Not sure if you're trying to imply that information written by lawyers
wouldn't have such a disclaimer. If so, that's nonsense. The language is there
to make clear the site doesn't put its authors in a lawyer-client relationship
with its readers, and directing them to retain a lawyer themselves if they
want Advice they can rely on. No lawyer is going to offer free advice in a
manner that makes them liable to every one of tens of thousands of readers in
the event that the advice is negligent. (IANAL).

------
dmoney
Could installing this extension, and therefore being "aware" of the TOS of a
given site, make you more liable in the event that you inadvertently violate
it? I.e., does it make a TOS any more legally binding than it already is?

~~~
largesse
Good question. I'm tempted to just allow the courts to nullify TOS provisions.
They periodically do, calling them "unconscionable."

------
mayneack
Previous discussion: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4350907>

------
Aardwolf
Very nice, but I think you should put somewhere on the website what Class A,
B, C, D and E mean. It's not on the main page, and it's not on the "Learn
more". This is something very interesting to know though...

Also, due to how the web looks in recent years, my mind is trained to ignore
anything containing Facebook, Twitter, etc... at the bottom of webpages
because it's usually meaningless footer content. However the "Ratings" part on
your site looks exactly like that. I only discovered the second time that it
is content.

If more people unconsciously ignore such stuff, you may want to present it in
a different way.

------
lucb1e
Wanted to submit a review of WhatsApp's ToS (spoiler: they're horrible), but
the method of communication is so untransparent... They use mailing lists
apparently, and there are a dozen threads on Whatsapp's ToS already. I don't
get it. This needs fixing if they want non-techies to contribute.

------
jacquesm
The problem with terms of service is not that you can't read them or that you
don't. The problem is that even if you do you're going to have to come back to
reading them every couple of weeks in case they suddenly change and pull out
the rug from under you.

Terms of service from the time of signing up should be binding and a service
should be suspended until you accept new terms of service should they change.
That way at least you'd have a loud and clear warning.

~~~
Monotoko
Most online games make you agree to an updated ToS (Apple do as well with the
App Store) when they come out, not that anyone is actually going to spend
hours reading 27 pages of legalese, but still.

------
armored_mammal
You could just take the obvious shortcut and rate them all as 'D's or 'F's,
because you know they pretty much all will be 'D's or 'F's.

------
twistedpair
What's the point? Oh no, G or FB have evil terms. Where are you going to go
now? They've got you. You agreed to the terms.

