
Pavel Durov quits as VKontakte CEO - tolitius
http://gigaom.com/2014/04/01/russias-zuckerberg-pavel-durov-quits-as-vkontakte-ceo-after-kremlin-allies-take-over/
======
sillysaurus3
This kind of thing seems to be one reason America is still the best place to
start a business.

I'm saying that in order to spark a debate and challenge that belief. Would
anyone please list some actions taken by the US government which is similar in
nature to the takeover illustrated here?

It seems very similar to what happened in the middle ages. Before the rise of
the merchant class, specifically the ability to defend themselves, bullies
stepped in and took what they wanted. Pg went into some detail about that in
one of his essays about wealth. The phrase "if you let the nerds keep their
lunch money, you rule the world" comes to mind. Might that be changing? Is
Russia harming itself by taking these actions? What ways might this action
backfire against them? Or is this a new model for how governments should treat
corporations that dare challenge their authority?

EDIT: I really didn't mean to start a flamewar. My apologies. I was hoping to
get people's thoughts on whether governments of the future are going to do
this kind of thing more and more (including the US). I should have led with
that rather than cheerleading America.

EDIT2: I would again like to stress the international nature of this threat.
This type of governmental action is something that seems likely to eventually
threaten us all, regardless of where we're located. As such, the best thing to
do would be to discuss possible ways of protecting ourselves.

I would also like to apologize for accidentally insulting everyone who lives
in places other than America. Phrasing my comment the way I did was a
boneheaded thing to do. It currently reads like an elaborate form of trolling,
as if I'm snubbing non-Americans. But in fact I'm just poor with the pen and
in reality meant to debate the merits of starting companies in various
countries, and to call attention to this international threat. I'm quite sorry
for how it sounded. In the meantime, can anyone think of ways of protecting
ourselves from centralized government action against businesses?

~~~
mtrimpe
Most people don't realise that Russia is a brutal petro-chemical dictatorship
in economical decline which is clamping down hard on human rights, freedom of
the press and radicalising its population through propaganda.

I've been following the Crimea conflict very closely (which almost certainly
is also what caused Pavel's departure) and the seriousness of the situation is
heavily underestimated by the world.

The Russian economy is heavily dependent on gas exports, and both income from
- and production of gas is declining. A small elite has been massively
siphoning off wealth from those natural resources and is desperate to stay in
control.

Given the situation they (rightfully) fear being overthrown and to prevent
that they've started 'restoring Russia to it's former glory,' appealing to
traditional family values by introducing anti-gay laws, introducing laws
against protesting, laws against criticising Russia, shutting down independent
media and distributing propaganda from the remaining station which gets ever
more removed from reality by the day.

It is in that context that the VKontakte departure must be seen, and therefore
it's difficult to make direct comparisons between Russia and the US: they are
truly orders of magnitude apart right now.

P.S. It is important to keep in mind that you could also argue that something
similar happened in the US with the NSA scandals but in the US none of the
CEOs chose to resign.

~~~
insuffi
The seriousness of the conflict depends on where you get your information,
sadly.

The situation geopolitically seems pretty simple, in broad strokes. Too bad
there's unfounded scaremongering on both sides(or should I say 3 or 4 sides).

~~~
mtrimpe
It more seems that the seriousness of the conflict depends on whether you see
this as an isolated incident (which just happens to be the worst violation of
territorial integrity in Europe since WWII) or as yet another indicator that
the exact same social dynamics that led us to WWII in the first place are
intensifying significantly.

I'm curious as to what your take on this is then though ...

~~~
insuffi
Oh boy.

I think you're somewhat over-exaggerating the situation. Yes, Russia has not
been the most subtle in taking over Crimea, but I can say without a doubt that
any of the major superpowers would do the same if a country nearby were to
experience a coup d'etat. Especially if that country was strategically
important.

While not technically legal, Crimea really is mostly comprised of Russians and
has had a special legal status for ages. A 97% vote does not surprise me.
Russians in other eastern european countries also reminisce of the "good old
times".

I think much of the backlash is due to Russia being projected as the
stereotypical evil commie.

I really don't want to venture into conspiracy theory territory, since that
would probably hurt my credibility, but I would not be surprised to see the EU
and US behind this as a means of trying to cut Russia off from the outside
world(after inviting Ukraine into the EU failed). Don't forget the opposition
has strong ties with the U.S.

This might be of interest to you. [http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraine-
protests-carefully-orch...](http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraine-protests-
carefully-orchestrated-the-role-of-canvas-us-financed-color-revolution-
training-group/5369906)

Globalresearch is a credible think tank.

~~~
mtrimpe
OK. It's pretty clear that you've been heavily exposed to a single perspective
of the situation.

There is no way in hell 97% of the population voted in favor with 80+%
turnout; especially given that 30+% of the population is Tatar or Ukrainian.
Based on leaked reports to the Kremlin the real turnout is estimated at a bit
over 30%.

Regardless; the referendum was literally held at gunpoint after all Ukrainian
news had been shut off and Russian television showed massive fascists uprising
and murder in Kiev, which heavily scared the population and did make a large
portion of the population believe they _were_ being rescued.

Thus, even if the results were true, it still would not have been a valid
referendum.

As for the protests, based on direct sources from real people the protests
were organize by just that: real everyday people.

Once again though; the regime was not overthrown by the protesters, but by
Yanukovich losing moral authority after ordering shooting of civilians.

If you want to argue the snipers were also a false flag operation then you'd
indeed be well into conspiracy nut territory; but I can also point you to
videos of Ukrainian snipers assembling if you want.

Global Research also doesn't have that good of a reputation. In [1] it
explicitly mentions one of it's main reality warping effects comes from a
heavy reliance on Russia Today material.

[1]
[http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch.ca](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch.ca)

~~~
insuffi
I'm sorry, but YOU are the one who is heavily exposed to a single perspective.
Keep watching your CNN.

I myself am from eastern europe and have first hand witnessed russian attitude
towards post soviet satellite countries. Don't teach me what I know.

Literally almost everything you say is wrong. Referendum was not held at
gunpoint. I've seen western sources use that phrase, so I know where you got
it from.

It is a valid referendum because Crimea has a weird legal status, look up
Autonomous republic of Crimea.

No, the protest most certainly was not organized by real everyday people.
Strategically taking over buildings is not what real everyday people do.

I do want to argue that the situation with snipers was not one sided. Some
sources say they shot at both, rioters* and the police.

Notice how I use the term rioters - that was not a protest.

P.S. I have no reason to be biased since I don't generally like Russians,
especially the ones that stayed in satellite countries after the fall of the
Soviet union. They have a habit of not learning the language and not
respecting the host country.

P.S.S Learn fucking Russian, so that you can get both sides of the picture,
not just biased rehashes of reuters/cnn/msnbc.

~~~
mtrimpe
I've been following all international reporters on the ground from day one
(Twitter journalism is truly a game-changer) and corroborating it by getting
personal perspectives from people related to Maidan and within Crimea. My
partner is Ukrainian from Russian parents and we regularly compare Russian and
Western reporting, statements and propaganda.

All in all I'm quite sure I've got a pretty solid grip on the situation
incorporating information from all perspectives.

As for a referendum at gunpoint; it's not really debatable as it refers to
armed Russian forces having taken over Crimea during the referendum.

As for it's validity; it's not about the constitutional framework, it's about
the occupation, selective media blackout, voting irregularities, lack of
independent international observers etc. etc. The comparison with the
internationally recognized Scottisch referendum [1] explains it well.

As for taking over buildings; I don't find it at all odd that a movement
consisting mostly of the general population and also militant far-right
extremists (disproportionately present due to obvious selection bias) operates
strategically in a way that maximised disruption. Self-organisation is a much
more likely explanation than nefarious foreign strategic advice.

As for the snipers; are you seriously arguing that the _US_ shot these
protesters as a false flag operation?

It sounds to me like, at the core, you just can't comprehend a bona-fide
populist uprising lying the root of Euromaidan.

Have you considered that that might be because at some level it invalidates
the learned helplessness many in post-Soviet states were raised with?

[1]
[https://secure.flickr.com/photos/foreignoffice/13306114335/](https://secure.flickr.com/photos/foreignoffice/13306114335/)

------
skolos
In the early days of odnoklassniki and VKontakte there was a joke in Russia
that KGB invented them as better version of its secret files on people. Now it
does not look like a joke anymore.

~~~
myth_drannon
Actually it was originally a serious concern with the Facebook where CIA
originally invested through one of its tech funds. KGB is not that smart :)

~~~
beagle3
I don't think the concern ever went away. And with all the snowden revelations
so far, I guess it is reasonable to promote it from concern to near certainty.

------
aspidistra
For UK readers and or football fans, the Alisher Usmanov mentioned, who now
controls VKontakte, is the same Alisher Usmanov who owns a large stake in
Arsenal FC.

He also owns a stake in Odnoklassniki, another Russian social media site,
which is "for classmates and old friends", a bit like Friends Reunited:

[http://odnoklassniki.ru/](http://odnoklassniki.ru/)

~~~
vellum
_The remaining 40 percent of VK belonged to the Mail.ru group, co-owned by …
Alisher Usmanov._

Usmanov owns shares in a lot of Silicon Valley companies.[1] Mail.ru's former
chairman, Yuri Milner, funded the automatic Y Combinator investments from
2011-2013.[2]

1: [http://www.usm-group.com/internet.html](http://www.usm-
group.com/internet.html)

 _Facebook, Apple, Twitter, Groupon, Zynga, Spotify, Zalando, ZocDoc, Airbnb,
Alibaba and 360buy._

2: [http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/16/us-venture-
milner-...](http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/16/us-venture-milner-
ycombinator-idUSBRE9BF1GA20131216)

------
pgt
For those who don't know what VKontakte is (I didn't), it is the biggest
social network after Facebook with "over 100 million active users" according
to vk.com, which they own.

More information:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VK_(social_network)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VK_\(social_network\))

~~~
guard-of-terra
Perhaps China has a few bigger networks.

------
myth_drannon
Utmost respect to Pavel for the courage. When NSA pushed the US companies they
all, ALL CEOs just complied. Facebook,Google, Yahoo... all of them....

------
shmerl
Does anyone still trust centralized social networks these days?

~~~
krick
Umm, I personally don't, but given there's 228 million users of VK and 1.23
billion users of FB… Yeah, I guess somebody does.

------
avodonosov
The article tries to make out of thin air an impression that Kremlin took over
VK by force, or something like that. Which is a complete bullshit IMHO.

Durov and others just exchanged their shares to cash, that's all.

Trying to mention this together with the fact that Durov disobeyed traffic cop
order and hit him with his car (he did, that's a proven case, there is a
video), doesn't make it a "Kremlin forceful takeover of VK"

~~~
danabramov
Selling shares and resigning as CEO were two separate events.

~~~
avodonosov
two related events

------
at-fates-hands
This was in the related article that talked about how Putin muscled his way
into the company before Durov sold off his shares:

"It essentially means that there's a glass ceiling to how big you can grow
your company, and how influential your company can be in the Russian internet
space before the government begins to take interest in it,"

[http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/31/5363990/how-putins-
cronies...](http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/31/5363990/how-putins-cronies-
seized-control-over-russias-facebook-pavel-durov-vk)

Isn't this how it's always been in Russia?

~~~
korzun
Isn't this how it's always been in US? We all know that Facebook does not work
with government.

Right?

------
huhtenberg
This kinda puts Telegraph project in a different light, doesn't it?

~~~
MichaelGG
A worse light, perhaps? Telegram sells snake oil and ignores security
recommendations while billing itself as secure. They may only be "saved"
because they actually believe what they're selling (although they shouldn't
after being shot down so quickly).

~~~
huhtenberg
Snap out of that mindless Telegram bashing loop, will you?

If anything, this CEO departure only shows that HN got the motivation for
Telegram _completely_ wrong. The assumption behind that gang up was that
Telegram was trying to sabotage online privacy, because what else a Facebook-
like entity may be doing in the domain of secure communications. Guess what?
There was more to the picture than met the eye.

~~~
MichaelGG
There was no assumption of sabotage that I saw. Just a bunch of stubbornness
while ignoring security expert's suggestions, followed by a compromise of
their highly touted security.

What part did I miss?

------
danabramov
It was a joke.

[https://vk.com/durov?w=wall1_45618](https://vk.com/durov?w=wall1_45618)

------
jedmeyers
Did someone consider the fact that this might be an April 1st joke?

~~~
spada
It's not. It's been a long coming process.

~~~
krick
Could you provide some proof links please? Because that thing sounds really
unbelievable, and given the date… That's why I hate that stupid 'holiday' so
much!

~~~
krasin
[http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/2443179](http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/2443179)
(in Russian, but it's more-or-less respectable newspaper)

~~~
krick
Thanks. I speak russian and that actually seams to be true (regardless the
newspaper, I just didn't know that he sold his part a long time ago already).
In fact I hoped that stating that "it was long time coming" can be confirmed
by related non-01.04-dated posts. But that selling stocks, etc. — yeah, it
doesn't sound like a joke anymore.

