
Tesla (TSLA) surpasses BMW's valuation as one soars and the other slips - evo_9
https://electrek.co/2018/11/08/tesla-tsla-surpasses-bmw-valuation/
======
ckastner
BMW reported profits of €8.7bn for the year 2017. [1]

Tesla stockholders must be very, _very_ optimistic about its future
performance when they value Tesla more than an already established, immensely
profitable player.

[1] [https://phys.org/news/2018-03-bmw-net-profit-bn-
euros.html](https://phys.org/news/2018-03-bmw-net-profit-bn-euros.html)

~~~
DanCarvajal
Stockholders just believe the no one else will ever be able to make an
electric car.

~~~
LeonM
They are able, but they don't do it.

The only full electric car BMW currently produces is the wacky i3, which
doesn't appeal to the average BMW buyer. For some reason all car manufacturers
(except tsla) build really lame, goofy, small electric cars, why can't we just
have a traditional luxury saloon?

The current 5 and 3-series are not offered in an full electric version. Which
means that maybe, if we are lucky, there will be an all-electric 3/5 series in
the next-generation (to be expected in 2021).

~~~
thesimon
>For some reason all car manufacturers (except tsla) build really lame, goofy,
small electric cars, why can't we just have a traditional luxury saloon?

Because maybe high-quality saloons with expensive batteries are way to
expensive for most consumers?

~~~
LeonM
Depends on the market. I live in the Netherlands (next to Germany) and even
though NL is one of the most expensive countries to own a car, luxury german
cars are very common here. So are Tesla's by the way.

~~~
jessaustin
I've never been to NL and never knew that it was expensive to own a car there.
However, having learned that, I am certainly not surprised to also learn that
many of the cars there are fancy and expensive. Wealthy people have more fancy
and expensive cars than poor people. If none of the poor have cars, a greater
portion of existing cars will be fancy and expensive. Singapore was the same,
when I lived there. That isn't to say that _all_ vehicles were luxury. Workmen
still need work trucks, after all.

------
jasoncartwright
I often enjoy Electrek's coverage, but they aren't a reliable news source.
[http://www.thedrive.com/news/24025/electreks-editor-in-
chief...](http://www.thedrive.com/news/24025/electreks-editor-in-chief-
publisher-both-scoring-250000-tesla-roadsters-for-free-by-gaming-referral-
program)

~~~
Someone1234
I don't think it is much of a stretch to suggest that Electrek is part of
Tesla's marketing team. In a similar way to The Verge being part of Apple's.

~~~
webwielder2
The Verge are Google/Android fanboys at heart. Unclear to me how they got the
iVerge moniker besides giving good scores to Apple’s objectively good devices.

~~~
rchaud
That reputation came about due to their notorious review of the Nokia Lumia
900 in 2012. The reviewer gave it lower numerical scores than the iPhone on
various factors like ergonomics and camera even though the review text didn't
imply that it was lower quality.

That led to accusations of Apple bias, especially because of editor Topolsky's
love of all things Apple back during his Engadget days.

I think it's still their most-commented article ever.

------
jseliger
If you're looking for more context for this, Benedict Evans lays out the bull
and bear cases for Tesla vis a vis other car makers: [https://www.ben-
evans.com/benedictevans/2018/8/29/tesla-soft...](https://www.ben-
evans.com/benedictevans/2018/8/29/tesla-software-and-disruption).

Right now, IMO, it isn't clear who will "win." If anyone. But Tesla can
certainly _plausibly_ win. It can also plausibly lose.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
It does seem to me there is a lot more competition just around the corner from
Jaguar (iPace), Mercedes (EQ), Audi (e-tron), etc. I expect supply of all of
these will be constrained to start with but Tesla isn't going to have the high
end of the market to itself for much longer.

------
cache_miss
As a former BMW fanboy, here's my take:

1) Over the past decade, BMW has snuffed the enthusiast/semi-enthusiast crowd
to cater to mainstream luxury buyers.

2) Anecdotally, I've noticed that the Tesla buyers of today were the BMW/Audi
buyers of yesterday.

Who's still interested in new BMWs?

~~~
LeonM
> Who's still interested in new BMWs?

This. Exactly this.

I've overheard potential buyers (not just at BMW, but all car dealerships)
asking questions like:

\- Can I get this car in an all-electric version? > No

\- Can I get this car with AWD (dual motor) > No

\- Can I get this car with autopilot > No

\- Will this car receive updates over the air? > No

\- Does the base model come with 300+ HP? > No

\- Can I control this car using an app? > No

\- Can I fuel/charge for free? > No

Then why pay 80k for a 5-series, if you can also get a tesla for that price?

~~~
hcg
They should really just have anyone who asks if they can control the car using
an app tossed out.

~~~
LeonM
Being able to pre-heat the cabin, or checking the charge status on a phone is
a reason to be 'tossed out' of the dealership? Boy, you'd be a good car
salesman!

------
_Codemonkeyism
Doesn't matter all car companies are toast, car sales are falling, iPhones
have eclipsed cars as a status symbol among young people. Many of my friends
no longer have cars.

The ones successfully migrating to autopilot Uber style service have a bright
future. Mercedes and BMW have the most successful in Germany (they merged
their operations), so the real next decade competitor of BMW is Uber/Lyft not
Tesla. I guess it depends on how good autopilots will be (and there are rumors
Musk really wants to to move into that space and Tesla is the means to do
that).

If Google and Apple and Amazon get into that space, I guess consumers would
choose their service over a BMW/Mercedes company though - they have the better
tech brand and people would rather get into a driverless Apple/Google product
than BMW/Mercedes.

Most people in this thread write from a US centric view where people live a
long way outside of cities so they can't imagine what's coming.

~~~
MuffinFlavored
> iPhones have eclipsed cars as a status symbol among young people

uhh...

People use their iPhone to go on Instagram and like photos of people with
$300k cars. I pinky promise.

~~~
_Codemonkeyism
Let me google that for you:

[https://www.google.com/search?q=cars+no+longer+status+symbol](https://www.google.com/search?q=cars+no+longer+status+symbol)

[https://www.google.com/search?q=iphones%20have%20cars%20stat...](https://www.google.com/search?q=iphones%20have%20cars%20status%20symbols)

~~~
MuffinFlavored
You are literally talking to somebody born in the 90s that 1,000% sees cars as
a status symbol, and all of my friends do too.

If we see a modern Rolls Royce, Lamborghini, Ferrari, or McLaren, we all pay
mental respect to the owner/driver because we know what depreciation + upkeep
cost for that driver.

A $15/hr call center rep leasing a $27/mo $699 iPhone for 18 months is so far
from the scale of $300k supercar that it makes me physically angry to have to
write back to this.

~~~
_Codemonkeyism
"[...] physically angry to have to write back to this"

------
Nasrudith
I think BMWs failures are the most significant part about it. They are still
tainted by their emissions cheating scandal and accordingly viewed as shifty
people who will sell you a car that isn't really accredited.

I would be overjoyed to see others entering the electric market at a broad
scale but right now I haven't seen anything to give me confidence. They are
trying luxury with a tarnished brand and even say stuff like electric cars
will always be more expensive which is a clear lack of long term vision.
Always is a very long time.

Even an absolute pessimist should say "probably not in our lifetime" because
in the long run stored energy sources will either be best off unused for
whatever reason or used up already there will come down two choices for
storing energy from our actual power sources - fixing our own novel
hydrocarbons or batteries. The one has a far higher storage efficiency and
less overhead if we are stick even if we assume absolute stagnation in battery
tech and thermodynamic limits in fuel efficiency.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
Wasn't it VW/Audi that got caught up in the emissions cheating or did I miss
something?

~~~
Nasrudith
They did as well. They were a lesser fined one discovered later also using
defeat devices but they are also dirty.

