
How to Make Toast: Electrical Engineering vs. Computer Science (2001) - alecbenzer
https://www.cs.brandeis.edu/~hornby/amuse/vs_toast.txt
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maerF0x0
Meanwhile every time I put a new kind of bread / bagel / muffin in my toaster,
it comes out unsatisfyingly burnt or underdone as is the particular setting of
the day. See, the objects I insert into the toaster almost _never_ resemble
the model bread that the EE designed for.

If the toaster had a shade selector, a built in camera and was factory color
calibrated, then no matter what I stuck in the toaster it would come out that
color (or hit some global MAX_TOASTING_TIME) .

Good software engineers design robustly without increasing the problem domain
(much).

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ThrowawayR2
> " _If the toaster had a shade selector, a built in camera and was factory
> color calibrated, then no matter what I stuck in the toaster it would come
> out that color (or hit some global MAX_TOASTING_TIME) ._ "

...which would fail on dark breads like pumpernickel or be confused by marbled
or cinnamon swirl breads.

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jvanderbot
seems to me radiated heat should indicate internal done-ness. Maybe a heat
feedback somehow.

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ThrowawayR2
I think that's only true if the thickness and heat transfer rate of all things
inserted into the toaster is uniform, which may not be the case.

~~~
jvanderbot
things should absorb heat until they reach equilibrium, regardless, no?

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ThrowawayR2
How do you determine whether the object being toasted has reached equilibrium
from radiated heat measurements which are from the surface of the object?

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intrepidhero
I dunno. I've got a 15 year old toaster with a bimetallic thermostat. Still
works fine. Maybe everything doesn't have to be "smart"?

~~~
chiph
But then how could you make toast when you're not home, like at a conference,
or driving in your car?

/s

This is a pretty cool toaster:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OfxlSG6q5Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OfxlSG6q5Y)

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Enginerrrd
Yeah we need a multi-platform smartphone app.

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helpPeople
Since we are comparing in this thread, why are computer science grads often
afraid of math based solutions?

For example, I had a physics problem and a computer science buddy was opposed
to solving it ourselves. He insisted we needed an expert. When at worst it
needed differential equations that ended up cancelling out. It wasn't a hard
problem, it just took some effort.

Is this a rare experience? Or have other people found a reluctance of math in
comp sci?

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jolmg
Why do you think them being a computer science person has anything to do with
it?

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true_religion
So, I did computer science almost two decades ago and our school as part of an
engineering degree. Our school taught differential equations as an optional
course. However, for all other engineers it was a required course.

Today, computer science at my old school is part of liberal arts and
differential equations isn’t listed anywhere on the curriculum.

Because many aren’t taught differential equations it’s hard to know what they
can do, or how to use them so it’s easier to just get an expert.

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rubayeet
Once upon a time, there used to be companies who made money by selling
toasters. When toasting bread went out of fashion, these companies found their
businesses to be in peril. They wanted their businesses to respond to the
change in the market and pivot. The ones whose toasters were software-driven
were able to survive, while the ones who hardwired them to do just toasting
breads, did not.

~~~
dsr_
That's an interesting take, but what actually happened is three different
things:

1\. microwave ovens became affordable, popular, and then discovered to be
terrible for browning things, but so good at generally warming food that they
became a smash hit.

2\. toaster ovens were introduced, with two hardware controls instead of one
(heat and time), which did an acceptable job of toasting but also handled lots
of other small warming and browning tasks.

3\. toasters came back as a nostalgic luxury good.

In all of these markets, the companies with more robust hardware capabilities
were able to charge a premium, attract customer loyalty to their brands, and
use the brand reputation to diversify to related kitchen goods.

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cameronh90
Is toast not popular in the USA? Still going strong in Europe!

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ImprovedSilence
It is, we just toast it in toaster ovens and not toasters these days...

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cameronh90
Toasters are still a basic kitchen essential here. Maybe because we don't have
as much space in our kitchens...

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dangus
Ha Ha, thanks for the cool email forward.

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vsskanth
I've flagged this because this is needlessly inflammatory and doesn't really
contribute to meaningful discussion.

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crgwbr
I’d hardly call it inflammatory. It’s merely a humorous story about over-
complication in engineering problems.

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na85
_Au contraire_ , I think it's a parable about software departments being
overstaffed and producing churn to fill the hours. See: Uber Engineering,
Google rewriting everything all the time, Javascript frameworks of the
month^H^H^H^H^H week, etc.

