
Stop Saying ‘Let me know when works for you’  - dwynings
http://viniciusvacanti.com/2011/01/24/stop-saying-let-me-know-when-works-for-you/
======
Confusion

      What you actually just said: “Hey, why don’t you spend
      some time going through your schedule, pick out some times
      that work and email them to me. I’ll then sit back and 
      pick one that I like.”
    

1) When you suggest a bunch of possibilities yourself, they will still have to
go through their schedule to see if they are free at any of those particular
moments.

2) Going through your schedule hunting for specific moments takes longer than
just finding the first empty spot that they might want to fill with your
particular request.

3) Since they are in demand and their schedules are full, it is quite unlikely
that any of your chosen times will fit them. As a result, they will still have
to do the same work to make a 'counteroffer'.

Any arguments in favor of the thesis are lacking. It's just someone venting an
opinion.

~~~
Umalu
One argument against saying "whatever works for you" is that it makes it
appear that you don't have anything else important to do. This can lower your
status, particularly with alpha male top gun types (VCs, I'm looking at you)
whose minds naturally slot people into a pecking order. If you want a
hierarchical-thinking person like this to respect you, you have to convey that
you too are an important person with important things to do and other
important people to see. So consider the context: say "whatever" to your
friends but never say "whatever" to status-obsessed people you need to get
money from.

~~~
j_baker
It's not just VCs and alpha-male top gun types. You're correct about your
friends, but I think it's more that they've already determined your place in
the pecking order. For instance, how many times have you been in a discussion
with another programmer that devolved into "My project is _so_ much cooler
than yours"?

~~~
shadowfox
> For instance, how many times have you been in a discussion with another
> programmer that devolved into "My project is so much cooler than yours"?

Not many actually

------
apowell
By suggesting several possibilities, you're saying "these times really do work
for me, so if you pick one, we're set, you can put it on your calendar". When
you say "let me know when works for you", you're still leaving open the
possibility that you're not actually available at the time they choose,
possibly leading to more scheduling emails.

Plus, when I'm on the receiving end of a "let me know when works for you", I
feel a little presumptuous assuming that I really can pick any time and that
person is going to clear their schedule for me.

~~~
vacanti
You also have to wait for the person to confirm before you can really put it
down on your calendar definitively.

------
wccrawford
I disagree. He really IS being flexible. Yes, there's that initial moment of
'Ah, I have to pick!?' but after that comes the realization that he probably
just saved you several days worth of emails trying to actually pick a time
that really will work for you.

------
joezydeco
I'm sorry. Maybe the generation gap just clicked a little wider and I'm
missing something.

Let me know when _WHAT_ works for me???

~~~
chc
"when" = "what time"

Thus: "Let me know _what time_ works for you."

~~~
joezydeco
In what language?

~~~
sfphotoarts
I have to assume you're trying to either be sarcastic or trying to make some
point that eludes me. The language is really pretty clear for anyone with
grade school education. This being a generation gap thing is insulting to both
the younger and older generations. Just being dim isn't something that should
be blamed on age.

from:

<http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/when>

when At what time. They were told when to sleep.

~~~
tszyn
If when = "at what time", then you can't say "Let me know when works for you"
because you can't say "Let me know at what time works for you". By saying
"when works for you", you're trying to use "when" as a noun phrase. But "when"
is not a noun, "time" is.

Would you also use "how" in this way? "Let me know how works for you" instead
of "Let me know what way works for you"?

------
staunch
Disagree completely. Please do this if you want to schedule a meeting with me.
That way I can pick a time when I'll be in the best mood and least busy.

A meeting with me Monday at 9AM is very different from 2PM on a Friday.

------
millerc
Heh. That's something I dislike about dealing with the public. You suggest 2-3
slots, you're an a-hole for being hard to reach. You don't, you're an a-hole
for putting the onus on them.

------
Groxx
This problem only exists in most circumstances because the vast majority of
people don't use adequate calendar software, much less set them up so the
information can be shared with random-person-X, much less in a safe manner
(public/private/busy time display options). Not that I think any calendar
software out there now is particularly nice to use, but that's a different
issue (though it may be the cause of the first).

USE CALENDAR SOFTWARE. The problem goes away. Just share links, overlay, and
look for gaps in the method of your choosing.

More on topic: entirely disagree. Which is more annoying: me listing off time
after time after time that of course is unlikely to fit into their clearly-
busier schedule, or asking if they have free time soon? Prior to getting a
job, I could just start asking about hour after hour, endlessly, until they
say yes, or I could say "any day, between midnight and midnight".

If _your_ schedule is busier than theirs, yes, it's rude, because you'll have
to say "no" a whole lot. That's rude because it's a waste of time. But when
you're trying to meet up with "(potential customers, investors, biz dev
partners, employees, journalists)", ie, people you probably will take time out
of your day to deal with, offering them the choice is closer to a compliment,
as you're basically saying they're more important than you.

------
joshfraser
My goal is usually to get the meeting scheduled in as few emails back and
forth as possible. Proposing an initial date, time and location gets us there
faster.

On the receiving side, I also find that I'm a lot less likely to procrastinate
on finding a time that works if you offer specific suggestions. I'll usually
check my calendar right then and there and respond. Otherwise, I might stick
it on my todo list and forget about it.

------
EGreg
I usually would say both ... hey, let me know what's a good time for you. How
about Mon around 5, or Tue around 7? Gets them thinking.

------
eli
Related: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analysis_paralysis>

------
chipsy
I always politely suggest at least one definite possibility when scheduling is
required. I append it with "I am also free between ---" so that other options
are available.

The reason I do it this way is because if you say "whenever," especially over
email, you can get into a trap of back-and-forth where you gradually narrow
down scheduling over 3 or 4 additional emails - adding friction and cognitive
load to all your communications. You should be trying to move the ball forward
as fast as is safely possible, and giving a definite time right off the bat
usually reduces the back-and-forth to "That works. See you then."

------
systemtrigger
An additional benefit to imposing constraints on potential meeting times like
this is that you appear to respect your own time, which conveys to the
recipient that you may be in demand rather than desperate for a meeting.

------
seanfchan
Another thing I would like to point out, is that if you say “I’m pretty free
the next two weeks, let me know when works for you.” it allows the second
party to keep pushing it off if they are busy.

If you give them a couple of times within the next few week, their choice is
shifted from (speaking from second part POV) "Whether I should meet you or
not" to "Which day works best for me to meet you".

------
psyklic
This is even more applicable to personal relationships. It just doesn't seem
like you care about meeting if you suggest hanging out then don't follow up
with a time.

If you say, "Let's hang out this week" and leave it at that, unless they
really want to meet up it won't happen. If you say "Let's hang out, how about
Thursday for lunch?" then it likely will happen.

------
gmansoor
I usually suggest times and in addition depending upon who is the person and
how hungry I am to meet, I add "Here are some of my current open time windows
that I prefer. If none of these works for you, please suggest the day and time
that works for you and I will be able to shuffle my existing meetings to
accommodate this" So far working well.

------
Sniffnoy
ISTM that whoever has the more constrained schedule should state their
constraints first, to save time searching the space of possible meetings. I
think of telling the other person to tell you a time as stating, I expect your
schedule is the more constrained one, so you should state your constraints
first.

------
brass_cannon
All good points, and I live by them when setting up meetings. The author
recommends freeconferencecall.com, and I use them as well. Just be aware that
your calls will be preceeded by an advertisment unless you specifically
request it be removed.

------
snprbob86
I've found some of the busier people I've met with use <http://www.tungle.me/>
to good effect.

------
tastybites
What a cynical way of looking at things.

When I use this I mean "I will adjust my schedule to fit yours, because I am
the one asking for your time."

~~~
timmaah
When consulting I used to ask this of clients when they asked to meet. It
would end up with emails back and forth with me only me proposing a vague
timeframe and them just giving a yes or no answer.

After a little change in attitude about myself and my worth overall, I just
lead and send them a time. Most of the time it ends up working fine and saves
emails. And I think makes me look better in the end.

~~~
Groxx
Maybe my brain is going (long day), but that makes no sense.

First paragraph: you send them a time ("me proposing a vague timeframe"), they
say yes or no.

Second paragraph: you send them a time ("I just lead and send them a time"),
they say yes or no.

I can see how picking a specific time could work better, as then they're more
likely to bend to your time than if you're vague. Being vague implies you have
other open times too, so they're freer to say no while still getting the
meeting. But how is the first about letting _them_ choose a time-frame?

~~~
timmaah
If I am vague, they seem to come back with the same vagueness. Me picking a
time from the start puts them more on the spot and their no is normally
followed with a concrete suggestion of their own. (I never seem to get that
when giving a timeframe or options)

------
anonymous246
Umm, it's pretty trivial to click "Accept/Decline/Propose new Time" in
Outlook. Gmail seems to do the needful for Outlook appointments that get sent
to Gmail addresses. So no sweat there either.

I see absolutely no problem in going back and forth a couple of times before
settling on the time.

Btw, I personally always give people a list of times instead of saying
"whatever".

