
USPS confirms Byuu’s PAL SNES package has been lost - DiabloD3
https://twitter.com/byuu_san/status/832074375646048256
======
AdmiralAsshat
So from what I gather on the Twitter chain, a USPS employee likely stole the
package and claimed it as "lost", then probably tried to sell it as a lot on
eBay.

Since USPS is basically trying to blame byuu for this, I'm afraid the only
option here to get any recourse is support-by-public-shaming. It would be a
sizable blow to USPS's reputation to be framed as "A bunch of thieves who will
deliver your stuff unless it's valuable, then we'll steal it, tell you we lost
it, and sell it."

He could try to involve the police, but I imagine it will go nowhere. It's a
pity.

EDIT: Corrected 'UPS' to 'USPS'.

~~~
eli
Seems unfair to automatically assume malice.

I once had an international package go missing at some point after clearing
customs despite a label declaring its value accurately at $1. I doubt that was
due to theft.

~~~
tomtoise
Within the twitter chain was mention of an ebay listing suspiciously similar
to the parcel contents being seen. Parent is likely referring to this.

~~~
alexvoda
Since it was delisted, if someone has the link maybe it was archived by Google
Cache or Archive.org.

------
drewg123
I was wondering: The shipper used DHL, so how did the USPS get their grubby
hands on it? Then I looked at the Wikipedia article for DHL and found that ~8
years ago, DHL started using USPS for local delivery.

I've found recently that when I order a package online, it will ship via UPS,
but then the package is turned over to the USPS for last-mile delivery. I hate
this because the package disappears into a black hole of USPS incompetency
where they can't even do tracking properly, much less delivery. I wish Amazon
had an option "don't let USPS touch this" for shipping.. I'd be willing to pay
extra.

~~~
mikeash
It's odd to see all the hate for USPS in these threads. My own experience is
that USPS is by far the best carrier out there. Part of it is the unfair
advantage of actually having a mailbox to deliver to. Smaller packages are
placed in the mailbox rather than left in front of my garage to be stolen by
random passersby. But part of it is just that they're reliable and cheap.

With Amazon, around here they like to use a craptastic local shipper called
LaserShip. Now _those_ folks are the epitome of incompetency. Tracking is
useless, they like to mark packages as delivered well before they actually
arrive, and sometimes they just plain give the stuff to the wrong address.
Once they gave my package to a random house thirty miles away!

I _don 't_ mean to say that you and the others are wrong, of course! I wonder
what the difference is. Maybe I'm just lucky in this respect due to where I
live or something.

~~~
throwanem
Amazon doesn't make it possible to prevent a shipper from being chosen to
fulfill a package, but you can request what they call "carrier
deprioritization" via their customer support helpdesk, which will artificially
weight the carrier in question so that their algorithm will opt against it
unless it is the only carrier able to fulfill a given order.

I've had good success with this last year, after Amazon's own in-house
fulfillment service caused me a series of issues due to erroneously failed
deliveries; since I made that request, I haven't had a single shipment
fulfilled via AMZL_US save those for which I requested same-day delivery of
items present in the Canton warehouse. Other sorts of orders which AMZL_US
would previously fulfill are instead now handled by UPS or FedEx.

If you have trouble with LaserShip, as I gather many do, you could probably do
worse than to request Amazon deprioritize that carrier. If my experience is
any guide, you may have to bounce from rep to rep a couple of times before you
find someone who knows what you're talking about, but it's worth persisting,
because the results are, at least in my experience, much worth the effort.
Hope this helps!

~~~
mikeash
Thanks! I don't order much from Amazon these days (just because it has become
really annoying to wade through all the third-party sellers, and they often
aren't all that price-competitive anymore) but I will keep that in mind for
the next time.

I wonder how bad a carrier has to be for Amazon to abandon them entirely.

------
losteverything
The USPS will have gps coordinate of the scan made by the carrier on the
street for delivery. --- If it made it to him or her.

The carrier will enter one or more dispositions such as delivered, damaged,
attempted and 20 others.

It does happen where a delivery from another company for last mile goes
"missing" and the entire manifest is reportedly "delivered" to the USPS. When
in reality it never got there. This happened semi frequently at Christmas so
the arrivals were not "late." the other reason is someone stole the parcel.

Almost always stuff reappears - but late. No company in the chain accepts
"late" so they fudge the scans.

I would not assume that having just the label and no parcel means anything
conclusive.

~~~
byuu
It means I won't be getting these games ever now, that much is for certain.

Even if their story about "the machine at my label" is to be believed, I am
now tasked with asking them to "please find my box. It's the brown,
rectangular one with no label. Trust me, that one worth $5000 - 10000 is mine,
even though there's no way for me to prove that."

~~~
losteverything
Hopefully not.

As a general rule "stuff" isn't allowed to sit around a mailroom or
distribution center. Bad packaging and addresses happen daily.

A formal investigation is needed. The USPS still bows to political pressure.
Often a letter to your congressman (not accusing but seeking help), puts
postal management in another gear - and may find your items.

~~~
byuu
I've still failed to get anyone to officially contact me on this matter.
Exhausted every possible recourse I could think of. Any time I actually get a
human involved, they just pass me off to some online form or say they can't
help.

~~~
losteverything
If it truly got separated from the merchandise and it was not packed with a
shipping more inside them most of the people you contacted are not capable of
researching it. Try filing online and call your local congressional office.

The workers in front of screens can't help in all likelihood. It has to be
found by walking around.

Good luck

------
Someone1234
It is definitely USPS's fault, but from what I can see that box was packaged
incorrectly. I am just posting this so OTHERS might not make the same
mistakes, I am not judging or blaming the original shipper (nobody is
perfect!)...

I've shipped a lot of stuff internationally. It appears that the shipper had a
18x16x10 box and wrapped it in shipping paper. They then applies the shipping
label to the shipping paper.

First of all, shipping paper is garbage, if it isn't on tightly enough then
creases get caught in the conveyor belts and ripped off. It also doesn't do a
damn thing, it is just glorified wax paper with minor water resistant
properties.

But here's their big mistake: They attached the label to the easily ripped off
shipping paper and [likely] didn't write the destination address (or source
address) on the box itself or within the box itself. That is a huge "no no."

If you ship internationally, and particularly if you ship something valuable:
Invest in the cardbox box. Cardbox boxes are NOT created equal. Most cardbox
boxes are single walled recycled nonsense, you want a double-walled heavy duty
box. The nice part about double-walled is that the first wall will "eat" the
water damage leaving the inner wall completely intact holding the box's shape.

You should also write the source & return address on the box itself. Even if
the label has it. The label can be ripped off. And if your box lacks an
invoice inside then instead include a contents list and set of addresses (this
is so that if the box were to spill it can be reunited and forwarded).

Last part: The tape. Not all tape is created equal. Look for the weight
rating. If it doesn't have a weight rating then it isn't shipping tape. Here
is a good place to start[0], again look at the weight ratings don't assume
that brand X is good even 3M make "economic" tape I wouldn't use. Tape uses
heat, water, or pressure to adhere. Most tape you'll be using will be
pressure, if you don't own a tape dispenser then use your finger to apply
pressure to the tape after it adheres. If you do own a tape dispenser then
make sure you're using it correctly and applying pressure along the whole
length of the tape (otherwise it "sticks" but at hugely reduced
effectiveness).

[0]
[http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Adhesives/Tapes/...](http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Adhesives/Tapes/Products/~/3M-Tapes-3M-Adhesives/Packaging-
Tapes-Equipment/Box-Sealing-Tapes?N=5393837&rt=r3)

~~~
losteverything
This. X100

It's often cool to bash Amazon but their boxes always withstand the shipping
and delivery process.

Imagine this. A cart of parcels shrink wrapped 10' is rolled near a scanner.
Each is scanned and then "thrown" into a semi-circle of hampers. One on top of
the other. Some things Amazon sells like dog food gets on top of that badly
packages ebay or etsy lamp you just paid $75 for.

"Top load only" items like live chicks get special treatment.

Packaging is a BIG deal for a successful outcome.

------
the-dude
Anecdata: have shipped thousands of packages and currently am shipping
packages again worldwide.

DHL is the worst, as a sender you don't notice. But on the receiving end there
are numerous things that can go wrong.

And with DHL, there always seems to go something wrong.

I have asked our suppliers to avoid DHL and we just pay them more for proper
worldwide service ( UPS / Fedex ).

------
diogenescynic
I've had several packages "lost" by USPS since moving to San Francisco. Never
had issues in any other city. Almost everytime a package is shipped by USPS it
stresses me out. I'll pay extra for FedEx now because UPS and DHL both use
USPS for the last bit of the delivery in the city. I can't believe there is no
way to really file a claim for a lost package. When you try they usually just
give you a the Postmaster's phone number who puts you on hold for up to an
hour. It's insanity. I'm normally for public services, but USPS is incompetent
and can't be trusted.

~~~
johnward
FedEx uses USPS for their smartpost packages. There's really no way to
entirely avoid USPS.

~~~
diogenescynic
They might, but it happens much less often in San Francisco from my
experience. Whereas practically every UPS package I had shipped from Amazon
Prime was being fulfilled by USPS. I just try to avoid them when possible
after a number of horror stories.

------
benmorris
If the package was worth 10k no way would I trust USPS with it. We ship out
thousands of packages yearly via USPS and there is zero accountability for
lost or damaged goods. We file weekly claims to get the $50 priority mail
insurance value which rarely covers the cost of re sending out an order.

Use UPS or Fedex next time!

~~~
gambiting
He used DHL - it's entirely possible that he had no idea that DHL uses USPS
for the final delivery once the parcel reaches US.

~~~
ac29
As I mentioned above, it was not shipped DHL, it was shipped Deutsche Post [0]
(confusing because they are owned by the same group). They are the German
equivalent of USPS.

[0] [https://i.imgur.com/0vDfxVN.png](https://i.imgur.com/0vDfxVN.png)

------
minimaxir
byuu posted a relevant thread on /r/legaladvice:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/5ud6jq/lost_pa...](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/5ud6jq/lost_package_of_100_snes_games_valued_at_5000/)

------
krallja
Did you have insurance on this package?

If not, that is a very expensive lesson to learn.

~~~
throwanem
The earlier discussion here
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13646438](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13646438))
included mention that the package is insured by its originator to €1000.

The tough part is that byuu's probably going to have to make it right with the
person who shipped him the games - he's already said that if they can't be
retrieved, he's going to do that even though he's really not at fault, and I
understand why.

If you know any popular Twitch streamers or YouTube gaming superstars, now
might not be a bad time to reach out, as I'm going to be doing later today. It
would be amazing to see the huge retro gaming fan community come together and
solve a problem like this for someone to whom we all owe so much.

~~~
gambiting
On one hand, I understand why byuu wants to reimburse him. If I was in that
situation I probably would as well.

However, I don't understand why the shipper didn't insure the package for a
full amount. If you are sending something wortk 10k, insure it for 10k. It's
simple as that. If it made shipment expensive, then I'm sure the community
would have sent him some money to cover the cost(or byuu himself would).

~~~
throwanem
I think I saw mention of €1000 being the maximum DHL would cover? Regardless,
it's in the past; there's a lesson to be drawn for the future, but that's no
help at all in the present.

~~~
SyneRyder
Yep, he seems to hint at that in his blog post, while mentioning that the
sender chose the insurance value:

[https://byuu.org/emulation/preservation/lost-
package/](https://byuu.org/emulation/preservation/lost-package/)

"... when I went to return the first box of 100 games, I was surprised to
learn that FedEx would only insure packages for up to $2499. Anything higher
would require documented proof of value, and the faxing of many forms, which
the retail employee I worked with had no interest in even contemplating."

~~~
ajford
Simple (though maybe more costly) solution is to send a bunch of boxes. Send
only $2-2.5K worth of cartidges per box. Might double or triple your shipping
cost, but would be cheaper than paying out of pocket for the value of lost
package.

------
davidf18
There are some deliveries where USPS does "last mile" for other carriers. If
shipping something worth $10,000 the insurance for the package should be
$10,000. Apparently the sender insured it for less than the value which is the
fault of the sender, not the receiver.

Not certain how the receiver would be liable for the sender not insuring the
package properly.

~~~
germanier
Under German law (which seems to be applicable here unless they explicitly
opted for something else) the liability shifts to the receiver as soon as it
is handed over to the shipping company. The idea is that the receiver could
have picked it up themselves but chose delivery instead. It's a pretty old law
that a usual person doesn't notice in their life because there are special
rules to make everything right when a company ships to a consumer.

Of course one also would need to check if they had any agreement on which
shipping service or insurance to choose which was violated or if there is any
applicable kind of negligence involved.

------
throwanem
I'd love to be able to see the deets, but I guess I'm "not authorized to view
these tweets"? Pretty sure I'm not banned or blocked, since I've never had an
account. Do you have to log in now just to see anything on Twitter, or is that
a user setting now?

ETA: Yup, they broke something. I can see it from desktop too, but on this iOS
9.3.5 device, every tweet from any user shows that message, and any other
Twitter URI bounces me to mobile and then gives "Sorry, Twitter is taking too
long to load" with a "try again" button that doesn't work.

Web 2.0 at its best. Thanks for all the helpful responses!

~~~
alternize
I can see it even in an anon browser session:

    
    
        .@USPS @USPSHelp Thanks, I found my missing package ... label. Your employees ripped it off the box and stole a $10,000 package from me. pic.twitter.com/LfuPZ9vZ8U
    

here are the two pics posted:
[https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4wfEKCVcAATKva.jpg](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4wfEKCVcAATKva.jpg)
[https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4wfEssVcAANYlw.jpg](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4wfEssVcAANYlw.jpg)

~~~
justusw
That is so painful to read. On the one hand, USPS is apologising for the
inconvenience, on the other hand they're shifting blame away from themselves
by recommending to use more tape?

~~~
byuu
Yeah that letter is basically blaming me, the recipient, for them damaging the
sender's package in transit. Truly there is no end to USPS' classiness.

------
ryanlol
So yeah, doesn't look like the games were packaged properly at all.

I don't want to sound mean, but undervaluing the contents for insurance and
then wrapping the stuff in brown paper for packaging is kind of asking for
this to happen.

In this case it wasn't even about packages just randomly getting lost, but
this thing was clearly packaged so poorly that it should've been immediately
obvious that this was going to happen.

~~~
cpncrunch
Not sure why youre being downvoted. Every time someone ships something to me
in brown paper it gets ripped.

------
pcvarmint
Shipper should have used Registered Mail. Anything over $2500 needs to be sent
Registered.

USPS has a Registered Mail tracking program with Germany:

[http://faq.usps.com/?articleId=1437076354655](http://faq.usps.com/?articleId=1437076354655)

------
Mithaldu
Better summary: [https://www.patreon.com/posts/lost-package-
of-8125834](https://www.patreon.com/posts/lost-package-of-8125834)

------
owlninja
Where did he find the ripped label?

~~~
yoodenvranx
It was send to him by USPS

~~~
owlninja
Ahhh...obvious now. Thanks!

