
Does Bedtime Honey Improve Sleep? Reasons to Think So - fjk
http://blog.sethroberts.net/2013/11/05/honey-at-bedtime-improves-sleep/
======
tokenadult
The previous comments already identify this as a poorly reasoned post. I read
it anyway, and I have to agree. Why don't we upvote submissions that have more
evidence behind them, as the The Hacker News welcome message[1] implicitly
suggests? "A crap link is one that's only superficially interesting. Stories
on HN don't have to be about hacking, because good hackers aren't only
interested in hacking, but they do have to be deeply interesting."

[1]
[http://ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html](http://ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html)

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jacalata
Seems to make a lot of big claims ("this might explain Dutch height!") based
on an overall evidence of 'it worked for me and two other people I found on
the internet, and for one friend, but not for the other' being called
'lightning doesn't strike twice' (which of course is a ridiculous claim
itself).

~~~
dllthomas
Strictly, they said "lightning doesn't strike twice _in the same place for
different reasons_ ", which is quite a bit more reasonable claim than the
idiomatic and factually false "lightning doesn't strike twice in the same
place", though whether it's actually an appropriate guideline is still a good
question...

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taopao
I'll use this excuse when I gorge on halva just before going to bed.

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shire
Best method for sleeping is running everyday at least 5miles per day.

~~~
CmonDev
Also helps wearing your joints.

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astral303
Or not.
[http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1948208,0...](http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1948208,00.html)

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gress
Most of the comments here are mindlessly skeptical basically boiling down to
"citation needed", and "not peer reviewed".

The whole approach Seth Roberts takes is based on a philosophy of self-
experimentation and personal science. His writing needs to be evaluated in
that context.

Comments that react in these default ways really add nothing other than to
assert that anything that is not conventional science should be dismissed
without further consideration.

Doesn't seem very hackerish to me.

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dminor
> Stuart King, an Australian musician in his thirties, recently commented:

>> Most days I wake up feeling more tired than when I went to bed the night
before,

This guy should do a sleep study.

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drakaal
Honey is basically sugar. Just Fructose and Glucose. There is some plant
matter, but not much.

Thinking that Honey does much more than taste good is silly. The reason it
does things like help when you are sick is just that it is really easy to
digest sugar and that gives you a kick of energy, and because of the distinct
flavor it also helps with nausea. But basically anything Honey will do maple
syrup will do just as well, as they are really similar chemically.

In truth most the things honey will do a caffeine free soda will do.

~~~
halviti
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey#In_medicine](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey#In_medicine)

Read up on medical-grade Manuka honey. It's antibacterial properties have been
proven countless times in medical journals around the world.

If you think it's "just sugar", then you've never researched honey.

~~~
drakaal
Not a single study has proven it to be any more effective than an equivalent
"dose" of glucose and fructose.

Honey is only "antibiotic" in that being a super cooled crystal it doesn't
allow gas exchange so things don't grow in it which is why it doesn't spoil,
(and why bees make it).

~~~
dllthomas
From wikipedia:

 _" Antibacterial constituents and mechanisms identified include hydrogen
peroxide (H2O2), methylglyoxal (MGO), bee defensin-1, the osmotic effect, and
pH effects."_

With a footnote to here:
[http://dare.uva.nl/document/175222](http://dare.uva.nl/document/175222)

~~~
drakaal
Hydrogen Peroxide isn't an anti-bacterial, it is an antiseptic. So that's a
great reference. Being as it is wrong.

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cpncrunch
Really?! Ever heard of the placebo effect?

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jere
I can assure you Seth Roberts has heard of the placebo effect.

[http://blog.sethroberts.net/?s=placebo](http://blog.sethroberts.net/?s=placebo)

~~~
dllthomas
But he is not controlling for it.

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pella
Seth Roberts:"The Growth of Personal Science: Implications for Statistics"

" _Personal science is science done for personal reasons (to help yourself)
rather thanprofessional ones (as a job). The most common personal science is
health self-measurement, which has recently become much more popular. This
article describes 14examples of personal science involving health. The topics
include blood sugar, sleep,mood, body weight, resistance to infection, and
brain function. Most of the examples areabout new ways to improve these
measures. For example, the results suggest that: 1.Skipping breakfast reduces
early awakening. 2. Looking at faces in the morningimproves mood. 3. Flaxseed
oil improves balance. 4. Butter improves arithmetic speed.Overall, the results
suggest that personal science plus expert advice can produce betterhealth than
expert advice alone. Personal science may influence statistics in two ways:
1.A new audience. Personal scientists want to learn statistics. 2. Better
understanding.Learning about personal science may help statisticians
understand science in general_ "

[http://media.sethroberts.net/blog/pdf/2012-09-24-The-
Growth-...](http://media.sethroberts.net/blog/pdf/2012-09-24-The-Growth-of-
Personal-Science-Implications-For-Statistics.pdf)

\--- \---

Seth Roberts:"The unreasonable effectiveness of my self-experimentation"

 _" Over 12years, my self-experimentation found new and useful ways to improve
sleep, mood, health, and weight. Why did it work so well? First, my position
was unusual. I had the subject-matter knowledge of an insider, the freedom of
an outsider, and the motivation of a person with the problem. I did not need
to publish regularly. I did not want to display status via my research.
Second, I used a powerful tool. Self-experimentation about the brain can test
ideas much more easily (by a factor of about 500,000) than conventional
research about other parts of the body. When you gather data, you sample from
a power-law-like distribution of progress. Most data helps a little; a tiny
fraction of data helps a lot. My subject-matter knowledge and methodological
skills (e.g., in data analysis) improved the distribution from which I sampled
(i.e., increased the average amount of progress per sample). Self-
experimentation allowed me to sample from it much more often than conventional
research. Another reason my self-experimentation was unusually effective is
that, unlike professional science, it resembled the exploration of our
ancestors, including foragers, hobbyists, and artisans."_

Medical Hypotheses

Volume 75, Issue 6 , Pages 482-489, December 2010

[http://media.sethroberts.net/articles/2010%20The%20unreasona...](http://media.sethroberts.net/articles/2010%20The%20unreasonable%20effectiveness%20of%20my%20self-
experimentation.pdf)

~~~
tokenadult
The "journal" _Medical Hypotheses_ in that period was a complete piece of
crap, with no effective peer review.

[http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/is-there-a-
rol...](http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/is-there-a-role-for-
speculative-journals-like-medical-hypotheses-in-the-scientific-literature/)

[http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100318/full/news.2010.132.ht...](http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100318/full/news.2010.132.html)

[http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2010/05/medical-
hy...](http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2010/05/medical-hypotheses-
editor-out-ed.html)

[http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2010/05/medical-
hy...](http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2010/05/medical-hypotheses-
editor-out-ed.html)

See also

[http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1465503](http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1465503)

a comment by another Hacker News participant with strong understanding of
human physiology.

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a8da6b0c91d
A little hit of insulin suppresses stress hormones, which probably helps get
you to sleep faster. Also, by 3 or 4 AM you can burn down glycogen stores.
Your body will ramp up fat metabolism, which entails an increase of stress
hormones, which can wake you up. So topping up glycogen before bed can help
you sleep more soundly through the night.

