

Food Matters: Building A Startup Office Culture One Meal At A Time - jasonshen
http://blog.ridejoy.com/food-matters-building-a-startup-office-culture-one-meal-at-a-time/

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dkrich
You're not creating the "correct" culture, you're just trading one kind of
culture for another. I work to make money. I don't like it when work bleeds
into my personal life. When I leave the office at 5 or 6, I am done for the
day. That way if I want to spend my free time thinking about things other than
work I am free to do so.

I once read a case about Tom Siebel that said that he required that every
Siebel office in every city contain the same blue carpet and beige walls.
Employees were required to dress formally for work every day. This was at the
height of the dot-com "I wear shorts to work and play ping-pong all day"
office culture. When people asked him why he was so strict while everybody
else was allowed to have fun, he said something like "Employees come to work
to make money. They can play on their own time." I read that and thought "this
guy is fucking awesome." I think if culture is too lax, work suffers. A lot of
people thought Siebel was a dick, but he and a lot of his employees came out
very very rich while most of those dot-com's went bankrupt and their relaxed
employees ended up looking for work.

That's why when I see people bragging about places like the Googleplex or
Zynga's offices with awesome meals and pods to nap in, I think that their
priorities are somewhat out of whack. All that said, everybody is different.
Some people love their jobs and don't mind intertwining work and play. To each
his own.

~~~
jasonshen
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! It's certainly true that some people work to
make money and see their personal time as their own. We're not saying our way
is the "correct" one. I'm not sure that a highly restrictive company is
necessarily linked to making more money but certainly anecdotes like Siebel's
exist.

At Ridejoy, we believe that work is a major part of a person's life and it
should be fulfilling and enriching. We believe that create a workplace where
people feel respected and cared for is one where people will do their best
work.

We have a big goal - making rideshare a ubiquitous and convenient form of
transportation for people everywhere - and we aren't looking for worker drones
who will follow every rule and wear the company uniform. We're looking for
people who believe in our mission and are inspired to come to work toward it.

~~~
dkrich
I know a lot of people associate dress codes and rules with boring offices and
asshole bosses, and there are certainly a lot of companies that have both. But
I think that if proper management is assumed, formality shows a respect for
your work, your coworkers, your customers, and yourself. That sounds like a
headline from a company memo, but think about it for a second.

If I run a company and I expect my employees to come to work and take what
they are doing seriously, would I encourage them to drift in and out of the
office as they please, take naps if they don't feel up to the task at hand,
and wear tshirts and cargo shorts into the office? It is true that if I enact
strict policies, people will flee the culture shock to the comfort zones of
startups with laid back young employees where they can have nerf gun fights
and drink beer on the job. But the fact is that those people are like a
disease that spreads and I don't want them in my company anyway. I want the
people who are coming in to kick ass and make us successful. There is a
symbiotic relationship involved here- people who embrace that culture are
going to come and be immensely successful and contribute. People who do not
would not have done a good job because they would always be half-assing their
work because they don't take it seriously. I'm not sure if the reverse is true
for the laid-back work environments, however.

~~~
calibraxis
Yes, I don't care for nerf gun fights nor beer on the job, either. I'm
generally very serious in corporate environments and never consider them fun.

However, I would nevertheless run screaming from the corporate environment you
mention. Unless I were desperate, I would not tolerate some "boss" deciding
what is the most effective way to accomplish my work. I would be hired for my
judgement and directed productivity; if I happened to judge that a nap was the
best next step to succeeding in my tasks, then I know better than this
busybody manager.

------
scarmig
As someone who's lived and worked in similarly collaborative or communal
environments, that's something I could enjoy and definitely wouldn't dismiss
out of hand.

But beyond the personal appeal, the negatively-charged comments really
surprise me. People make the same argument against being very close with the
people they live with--they're not looking to be best buddies with their
roommates. And that's their prerogative and a totally valid choice! But plenty
of people do choose to be really friendly with their housemates, and it works
well for them.

By the same token, how can we definitively say that Ridejoy's strong culture
is bad? Maybe it wouldn't work for you, but I'm sure you can imagine people
who would get a lot out of it. After all, the 9-5 with people whose
relationship with you is purely professional is something of an historical
aberration. So why get huffy about something individuals are choosing to do
because they believe it creates a better work environment?

Instead, let a thousand flowers bloom and try to figure out if there's
anything you can learn from all of them, both the successes and the failures.

------
reneherse
WARNING, ANTI-RANT MODE ON.

Based on the comments, I was expecting the blog to describe how Ridejoy is
morphing itself into a communist slow food cult. After reading the much more
benign article, I want to offer a counterpoint.

The team at Ridejoy is in a unique position where the kind of shared meals
Camille is describing feels like the right course for them. They're obviously
all extremely impassioned and open-minded. All young. Should they do anything
else besides what seems to work for them in their current circumstances? Or
what _seems to feel_ like the right direction to take things while creating
their culture?

I say go for it. Take the risk. Break the mold and make the experiment. If it
doesn't scale later on, _worry about it then_. If somebody falls in love and
wants to dine with their sweetheart more often than not, BFD. Ridejoy hardly
seems like a fascist bureaucracy in the making that would be unable to cope
with such emergent circumstances. "Happiness Manager" would be a frightful
title in a larger organization (admittedly it sounds a bit like something out
of Orwell or Edward Bellamy), but in a this case it pays to remember that
Camille's previous title was "Office Hero". There's a lot more playfulness in
this group of folks than some commenters here may realize.

Further, there is no bloody way the straight-jacketed corporate culture
described in some of the commentary here could ever make a product like
Ridejoy's work. If you want to scale, sure, go ahead and codify your blue
carpets and ties. Fill your branch offices with clones and drones.

But if you want to _originate_ , especially something that is not only
technologically but _socially_ challenging, put down your copy of "Dress for
Success" and let the spirit of non-conformity and play into the workplace.
Conformity in environment and clothing only begets conformity in the mind.
Playfulness in spirit does not equal slacking off in productivity, but it can
often mean leaps in inspiration.

Fundamentally, Ridejoy is in the business of promoting _sharing_ , _trust_ ,
and _community_. It makes perfect sense that they make the experience of
sharing a pillar of their company culture. Immersing themselves in that ethos,
being able to feel-out and experience all of its facets, benefits, and
pitfalls can only be an advantage to this kind of 'collaborative consumption'
startup.

That said, a caveat:

I'd beware that so many shared meals might not appeal to more introverted
folks. (And maybe that's partially why this article struck such a nerve.) The
Ridejoy team has some powerfully extroverted personalities, but the culture
needs to be founded in such a way that it appeals to all types. This is
especially important as the team grows into "18% gratuity added" territory, as
introverted folks are going to feel the need for more social space and shelter
in proportion to the number of people. People may want to opt out of the
convivium, and that needs to be understood, respected, and above all not
belittled or derided. Hell, _celebrate_ it by sharing a toast with the folks
about to go home. Seriously.

Also, I would suggest that meals are served at a consistent and fairly early
dinner time. This will allow people with outside evening commitments to plan.
And for folks heading home, how much more enjoyable is a commute on a
nourished stomach, and how much more productive one's evening??

DISCLOSURE: I don't know any of the folks at Ridejoy, I haven't yet used their
service, and I'm over 30. But as someone with a frightfully high metabolism
and frequent eating schedule, a healthily food-centric company culture sounds
unbelievably awesome. Even if it means finally socializing that ole inner
rugged individualist.

------
razwall
So instead of going home at a reasonable hour to eat dinner with my actual
family, I'm supposed to stay at work and listen to a Happiness Manager talk
about sustainable meat? No thanks.

~~~
jrockway
Spend time with your family in the morning? Come in at noon, have lunch, eat
dinner at 6:30, head home at 8.

Or, bring your family to work for dinner.

~~~
heretohelp
>Spend time with your family in the morning?

You have not lived with a typical family, especially not one comprised of
night owls.

------
wonnage
Nice! Culture posts will always attract complaints from those that see this
sort of thing as impinging on their personal time. But if you're in that boat,
you have the choice to find a more fitting environment...

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ridejoy
We always had an "unlimited food from Costco" benefit, and now Camille's
taking it one step farther by actually making home-cooked dinners. It's been
an awesome experiment!

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georgechen
I think team dinning is important, but going to _lunch_ as a group (or the
group has a fav. place for take out) usually is a much better option.

Our little story of AdMob is this:

There's this Teriyaki take out place at downtown San Mateo. We affectionately
call it the "Cornerteri" since it locate at the corner of 4th and San Mateo
Dr. Ask any x-AdMob about Cornerteri and they'll know about this place...
That's how you build a company culture.

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codenerdz
Its a bit offtopic, but with slightly over a million in seed money invested a
few months ago, how long can this culture really last, assuming employees are
paid market rates and are not seduced by these twists on expense accounting.
How does Ridejoy make money?

------
kijin
Whoa, 3-4 negative comments at the top already.

If your employees are a bunch of single college-aged people who are already
friends with one another, by all means eat together, play together, sleep
together, do whatever else you want to do together.

If your employees have their own families and social circles outside of work
to care about, let them leave at 5:01.

As usual, the important thing is to adapt to the needs of your people. When
some of your employees get married, have kids, etc., you'll have to adapt
accordingly. Problems arise when you refuse to adapt and try to impose the
same culture on everyone. As long as you remember not to do that, I don't see
any issues here.

~~~
jasonshen
Great point. Our company is small (full-time=5) and young (maxage=26). I don't
think think we'll do group meals in exactly this format forever as we get
larger and "older".

We will always be thinking about how to cater to the needs of the company and
the team as we grow and evolve.

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rdl
This is awesome -- it seems to work really well for your team.

Our startup is more likely to go to the range after meetings or with
customers, and hit up a steakhouse or sushi bar. Or maybe order a grass fed
wagyu cow or berkshire pig and consume 10-15 pounds a week each :)

It's nice that the startup ecosystem supports diversity.

------
solsenNet
i will say: i am glad i don't have to wake up everyday and think about ride
sharing.

------
carguy1983
_> But at Ridejoy, we’re not just a team, we’re a family, and families eat
together._

LOL no. I have a family. I don't need a second one. I also have friends. I
don't need a second set of friends either. Pay your employees fairly and treat
them to a weekly team lunch at a good restaurant.

Also fancy dinners when something really awesome gets accomplished.

This is what 99% of people want - people with their own lives and tastes and
preferences and schedules and social obligations.

Also, the implication of a Happiness _Manager_ is that you're working to
satisfy their happiness requirements. This is so misguided it's not even
funny.

~~~
jasonshen
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I totally respect your preferences and it
sounds like you might not enjoy working at Ridejoy. That's fine - it's
certainly not for everyone.

We've found our company morale increasing after implementing group dinners and
while we can't directly prove a boost in productivity, we believe there is a
link. We thought we'd share what we're learning with HN.

Not sure where you got your "99% of people want" stat but if it's true, then I
guess we're looking for that 1%

~~~
carguy1983
WARNING: RANT MODE ON.

So what happens when you need to have a serious talk with someone for screwing
up and everyone's in a terrible mood afterwards? Do you expect them to also
join you at dinner? Or is their punishment that they have to pretend to be
happy for the happiness manager? Or is their punishment that they don't get to
join you, banished to a microwave meal at home while everyone else sings and
dances and eats grass fed sustainably raised mutton raised in a westward-
sloping Polyface-esque agrarian paradise just north of Petaluma, served on a
bed of organic microgreens and wilted white kale and drinks low sulfide wine
from the Willamette Valley with just a hint of raspberries on the nose and a
dry finish with notes of oak and lavender?

Or does the 1% you're looking for also not ever make mistakes, and gets along
perfectly all the time, just like a real family?

The thing about these kinds of blog posts is that they are thinly disguised
recruiting / marketing efforts and inexperienced people take them as some sort
of gospel - nobody ever talks about the time when the team is at each others'
throats because someone (or everyone) fucked something critical up and lost
$50k and 2 months of work, or petty workplace politics or sexual / drinking /
druggie relationships or any of that - which always creep into this sort of
hippy dippy communal meals big extended family type stuff and really just adds
more trouble than it's really worth.

I've worked exclusively at startups since 1999 and let me tell you, this shit
happens. It all happens, all the time. People throw words at each other.
People cuss and get into disagreements, people fuck up, people are very
serious about very serious things, especially when TONS of money is involved.
Like MILLIONS of dollars of owner and investor money.

What this is - is corporate bullshit dressed up as culture, and it's fucking
flabbergasting to me that it's making its way into startups!!!

~~~
wonnage
I've worked in these sorts of communal environments for the past six years and
never had a problem. I happen to have friends and family who I have occasional
disagreements with too. It's just eating together. Can't make it one day? It's
not a mandatory meeting or something.

Maybe you just don't work well with that?

~~~
carguy1983
> It's not a mandatory meeting or something

Try missing 20 in a row, because you'd much rather eat with your friends or
SO. What happens? The happiness manager comes and pays you a visit is what
happens.

~~~
danthony
Well yeah, if the rest of your company regularly does something fun together,
and you can't be bothered 1 time in 20, then you're probably not a good
cultural fit.

Like it or not, a workplace is a community. And the norms of communities will
differ. There's no need to shit on places that work differently than you're
used to.

Just don't work at those kinds of places.

What's more, it doesn't make any sense to assume that your views are the same
as "99%" of people without any evidence.

