

The Mundane Existence - JumpBean
http://www.bootstrappingindependence.com/modernism/the-mundane-existence/

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smoyer
Only around 30 and feeling this mundane? Although I loved the technology I was
working on, my last job became five work-days filled with meetings too. I can
tell you that it turned what could have been my hobby (the technology) into a
similarly mundane existence.

A day full of meetings poses three problems:

1) Poorly run meetings consume too much time without accomplishing anything.

2) Having a full day of meetings almost eliminates the possibility of getting
real work done while you're fresh.

3) The meetings are often so dull (probably the small ratio of useful content
to blather), that you'll be tired sooner.

I became quite a contrarian ... refusing meetings when there wasn't a clear-
cut agenda and goals and in general trying to take back some of the time for
actual work. It didn't work, but it did earn me some black marks with my
managers.

Finally, I started a venture with two other guys and the three of us have
clear-cut roles. Since we trust that the others are capable and willing to do
their parts, we have only three calls a week, each scheduled to be 15 minutes
(but generally they're closer to 30). Now we're starting to demo to customers
and those meetings are exciting ... validation of some of our ideas, new ideas
and occasional criticism that keeps us on the right track can be invigorating.

I hope you're able to find that kind of excitement soon ... I've rediscovered
the adventure in my life!

~~~
blinkingled
> Poorly run meetings consume too much time without accomplishing anything.

Agreed that more often than not this is the case - however I am seeing a clear
awareness now a days at my workplace - people are at least a bit conflicted
about wasting time. I personally always try to politely steer the meeting to
get something meaningful agreed to or done - even if I am not the organizer.
My experience is that depending on how cleverly I am able to converse it
either goes well or people don't respond and I have to retry.

Things like saying "Hmm. So looks like at this point without having person X
in the room and without having data Y we can't really sort this out in <em>
this </em> meeting." - it works well if you insert them infrequently with
right tone and timing.

------
TeMPOraL
Seems so familiar. I just started to face this problem and I already hate the
idea of spending the rest of my life like this. There must be some way out of
here...

As a little side-point: on HN we often discuss the values of startup life, or
various different alternatives to 'day job'. I can understand why many hate
the idea of spending most of one's life as a nine-to-five worker doing things
one doesn't exactly care about. I hate this idea too. But, if we applied this
attitude on the scale of the whole society, would it not collapse? If every
shop clerk, Starbucks barista, bus driver, electrician or other professional
realized that there must be a better way of working, what would happen? Do we
need to _force_ people to have jobs (so that they can eat) for modern
civilization to work?

~~~
dualogy
The key might be variety. I'd hate "spending the rest of my life programming
in front of a screen" as much as "spending the rest of my life making coffee"
or "spending the rest of my life on a potato field". But trying your hands at
various jobs for a few months or years? Sounds much more refreshing, doesn't
it!

~~~
wladimir
That would be great.

However, I'm afraid in this age we're condemned to our specific specialization
for life. For every job, to get a job at all, years of experience ('XX years
of YY specific recent buzzword experience') is generally required. Even for
things a flexible, intelligent person could easily learn on the job given some
time and hard work.

You could probably switch career once with a lot of hassle, but 'trying your
hands at various jobs for a few months or years' sounds very optimistic...

~~~
dualogy
For every job? Doubt it. There are always demand/supply imbalances somewhere
in the caleidoscope of "all possible jobs" at any given moment and place. In a
demand/supply imbalance you may not be the "perfect choice" but the second-
best and totally-acceptable if you demonstrate that "I'll learn on the job and
I have the basic core soft skills of enthusiasm sane-humility big-picture-view
hands-on-brain" in your interview.

Well you just tell them "pay me 80-90% instead of 100% of your usual salaries
for 1-2 months, then decide whether to keep me for another year or not. I
always learn on the job and I always get good at it, fast."

Only if it's the truth of course.

(Of course, that's for "simpleton" jobs, not for programming. You better had
been building stuff privately or at uni for at least a year, obviously.)

Can-do or can't? "It's your attitude, not your aptitude, that determines your
altitude!" ;))

~~~
wladimir
Right, that might have been true ten years ago, and was even more true if you
go back further. These days it's hard to get a job even for people that have a
lot of experience in some area (at least if it isn't computer-related... we're
the lucky ones for now, but that's another story).

I mean, if you aim for the simpleton jobs, you'll be competing with more
experienced people that'd happily take the 80%/90% offer just to get a job at
all (if it isn't below subsistence level).

------
craftsman
I'm not ready to say a lot about how I solved this problem other than:

I quit.

My job was killing me. If you looked at it from the outside, you would have
said I should be perfectly happy: great pay, bonuses, respect at work. But
seriously: I was unhappy with the endless meetings, bureaucracy, and a culture
that didn't value creativity and passion for building really good software.

I'm still working all this out. I'm independent and learning a lot of great
stuff that I've wanted to learn for years. I'm building some products that I
hope will take off. But even if those fail in the sense that I don't make
enough to live on, I know I will succeed in a bigger sense: I will find a
place to work that has great people and values building really good software
that makes people's lives better.

Why am I so confident about that? For the first time in years, I feel alive
and full of curiosity and interest in the world.

------
the_grind
I feel this myself and see it in others at work (large fortune 500 company)

The 3 paths that I've identified for myself are as follows:

1\. Suck it up, stick with the job/career you've got. It pays well, there is
"relative" job security and an upwards path. Enjoy your free time with your
family, hobbies, etc. 2\. Same as #1, except some part of your free time to
bootstrap something that will give you financial freedom. 3\. Throw caution to
the wind and join a startup.

Per #1, it appears that some are able to partition their lives- e.g., they
drag themselves through work to enable them and their families to live a
certain lifestyle- I'm not sure this is sustainable longer term, but can be
done if one adopts a certain mental attitude towards work. #3 isn't a good fit
for me because I'm not ready to force my family to change their lifestyle to
accommodate my wishes. So that leaves #2 for me.

Ideally, if I could sustain myself and my family at our current lifestyle or
better through a side boot-strapped project, that'd be great. However, I
wonder if I would be happier trading in my 1 boss for tens?, hundreds?, of
customers of whatever it is that I would be selling or making, assuming that I
could even get to that point. Even if my bootstrapped project is successful
for a year or two, it is unlikely to succeed for a much longer term (10-20
years), whereas I could see myself easily employed in my current role over
that longer time-frame.

------
wazoox
This is horrible. Seriously, this will eat you alive, you must impose yourself
to your environment, not the other way around or you'll be crushed.

You think this meeting is useless? Tell others, and don't attend it.

You have more work than you can reasonably do? simply say no. You won't get
any advantage from working too much, anyway, you'll just be squeezed some
more.

When others leave, leave too. You're not supposed to spend 12 hours a day at
work. Will someone die if you don't finish this document/program/web page?
Heck no.

Your boss is unhappy with your new attitude? Explain the situation. Tell that
you won't be this nice guy that get exploited to death any more. Either you're
respected or you're better be elsewhere.

~~~
smoyer
exploited nice guy ...

That's another interesting side conversation. If you start out with the
attitude that it's just a job and you leave when your time has been put in,
it's far better than starting out as the nice guy (read that as dedicated) and
then changing. You'll be massacred for changing your attitude.

~~~
wazoox
Massacred? Certainly not. Either they take it or they fire him; he can't
really lose.

~~~
smoyer
I meant that you're better off setting those boundaries when you start your
employment than after people have become accustomed to your behavior.

------
mdda
Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song
still in them. - Henry David Thoreau

But less depressingly : I have learned, that if one advances confidently in
the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life he has imagined,
he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours. - (also) Henry David
Thoreau

------
lovelyLaney
unfortunately, this reminds me a little much of how my life used to seem.
hopefully the author can find succeed with their startup.

~~~
praptak
"used to"? Mind sharing what changed? Did you achieve what the OP tries to,
did it happen by itself?

------
jodrellblank
_I walk around all day with a frown on my face, worrying about one thing or
another for no good reason._

There is a good reason - you practised worrying so you got good at it, so it
became a tool you use frequently because you can, even when it doesn't help.

The answer is to not do that. It's an introspective answer, it's difficult to
do, but the secret to it is that it's not stupid advice it's actually pretty
good advice.

