
Sony Digital Paper e-ink PDF tablet for notes and forms - fidotron
http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/show-digitalpaper/resource.solutions.bbsccms-assets-show-digitalpaper-digitalpaper.shtml
======
jwr
This would look great if it wasn't made by SONY. They have a history of
building devices that seem great, but on closer inspection it usually turns
out that the user interface is horrible, overall usability is poor, and to use
the device you have to install a proprietary piece of Windows-only SONY
software that might be maintained and updated for a while — or not. So after a
couple of years you might be left with no way to access your data.

After I had this experience two or three times I figured I'd stay away from
SONY products.

~~~
anon4
That's why when I was looking to buy an e-reader I settled on a PocketBook.
Yes, the Russian ones. It's the most-open e-reading device I've seen. You
literally just plug it into your pc with a standard USB cable and it appears
as a normal drive that you can upload whatever you wish to. Including normal
binaries. There's no rooting steps involved or anything, it's plug-and-copy-
an-ELF. It runs a normal everyday Linux.

There's a vibrant community (though you might need to be somewhat familiar
with Russian) of all manner of customization possibilities and different
applications you can install.

It also comes with snake.

When they start offering A4 devices, I'll definitely buy one (unless someone
gets an incurable brain tumor and makes them closed).

~~~
lucian1900
To be fair to Sony, my PRS 350 is not far off. It shows up as a drive and I
can copy any ePub or PDF to it.

No modding, though.

~~~
xtracto
I've got a PRS 950. Back when I bought it was _really_ good. Bigger screen,
supporting SD cards and reading ePub and PDF. The other options like the
Kindle were very locked-up.

------
mdip
This looks fantastic. When the e-reader craze was going on, I avoided buying
one because I wanted one pretty much like this. Most of my e-books are PDFs
that display really well in a larger format device. My wife had a nook, and I
tried it out for a bit, but the size/resolution made viewing PDFs designed for
letter sized paper look just below adequate.

Is it wrong for me to also admit that ever since the "Root Kit Debacle" from
Sony, I cringe a little at the idea of plugging a Sony product into my PC? Or
am I just being paranoid?

~~~
mnw21cam
It isn't paranoia if they really are out to get you!

But yes, I have been waiting for a device like this for ages. I tried a
smaller e-ink device, but trying to view PDFs on that was painful at best. I'm
even wondering if 1200x1600 resolution is good enough for scientific papers.

Why letter size? Isn't that a little bit obscure?

~~~
Turing_Machine
Right. I'd think long and hard before using a Sony product after that.

~~~
mortenjorck
While Sony certainly deserved the infamy for letting the 2005 rootkit debacle
happen under the Sony name, it's worth keeping in mind that it was Sony BMG –
literally a different company from Sony Corporation, which makes consumer
electronics, and also a company that hasn't existed since 2008, when Sony
bought out the rest of BMG and formed Sony Music Enterntainment.

It was also nine years ago. We have to move on eventually.

~~~
logfromblammo
2005: Sony BMG rootkit. 2006: Exploding batteries. 2008: Sony DADC is
responsible for SecuROM. 2010: OtherOS removed; Hotz sued over jailbreaking.
2011: PSN data breach.

Also, they killed Lik-Sang just for selling across region boundaries.

~~~
testrun
2013 : Rockstar
[[http://www.salon.com/2013/11/01/the_godzilla_of_patent_troll...](http://www.salon.com/2013/11/01/the_godzilla_of_patent_trolls_attacks_google/)]

------
unicornporn
Looks like a dream. Here's the product page for DPTS1:
[http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-digitalpaper/cat-
digitalpap...](http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-digitalpaper/cat-
digitalpapersub/product-DPTS1/)

I imagine it's terribly expensive. "Pricing available upon request".

EDIT: That's right. $1000. [http://www.golem.de/news/dpts1-sonys-digital-
paper-kostet-me...](http://www.golem.de/news/dpts1-sonys-digital-paper-kostet-
mehr-als-1-000-us-dollar-1403-105441.html)

~~~
fidotron
Techcrunch say it will be $1100.

The hardware is lustworthy, though the resolution could be higher, it's just a
shame there's no SDK. The buttons on the front look very old school
Androidish.

~~~
noahl

        it's just a shame there's no SDK
    

I noticed that the battery life is 3 weeks. Given the size of the product (not
large), it's safe to say that they get that battery life by doing as little as
possible. It may be that they don't have enough processing power to run any
sort of apps, or if they did, it would drain the battery so much that it would
ruin the device.

With that said, it would still be cool to try. It should at least be able to
support a calculator.

~~~
Groxx
Nah. Nook Simple Touches can be rooted and run Android just fine. As long as
wifi is off (thus disabling the vast majority of app background syncing /
periodic updates) it easily lasts a couple weeks. For that you can run a
surprising number of apps just fine in a ridiculously-limited available RAM
space. I can't imagine this would be anywhere near as slow as a NST, so it
should be able to do just about everything except play 3D games and visit
crazy-bad websites.

------
rayiner
I'm looking for a relatively paperless legal workflow, and I have been
surprised at how hard it is. It's hard to pull out a laptop in a meeting to
take notes, if only because in a 1:1, you are often in someone else's office
and don't have a desk handy. I've been looking at the Livescribe for
digitizing handwriting, but to date the software has been shitty. The new
version that integrates with iPad/OneNote seems to be a step up, though.

The problem with the iPad, however, is that it's not good for marking up
documents. It's great for reading legal cases, but not for marking them up and
taking margin notes. Personally, I'm one of those people that gets a lot more
out of having paper in my hand and scribbling on it than I do just reading
something off a computer screen. I'm really intrigued by this product:
[http://www.thedigitalink.co.uk/products/capturx-markup-
for-p...](http://www.thedigitalink.co.uk/products/capturx-markup-for-pdf),
which lets you print out PDF's onto special paper so that when you write on it
with a digital pen, the markings are reintegrated onto the digital copy.
Unfortunately, it's really expensive!

Also, 10" is on the small side for what's ideal. A standard piece of paper is
13" diagonal. I've been looking at the 12.2" Samsung, which also has a
digitizer, but Samsung's Android skin is just god-awful. It's a shame nobody
makes a 12"\+ Baytrail Windows 8 tablet with good battery life...

This product seems to really tackle this niche. Apparently Sony is going to be
showing it off this week at the ABA tech show in Chicago.

~~~
WalterBright
> which lets you print out PDF's onto special paper so that when you write on
> it with a digital pen, the markings are reintegrated onto the digital copy.

What I do is print out PDF's onto regular cheap paper, mark them up by hand,
then run the paper through the scanner. Voila!

~~~
caf
It would be neat to have some software that compares the scan and the original
PDF to extract just the annotations, then add those as a layer on the original
PDF.

------
SeanDav
If this thing supports epub as well it would be perfect. I have been looking
for a full A4-sized e-ink reader for ages now but aside from my Kindle DX,
(which has to be hacked to read PDF's and epub) there has been very little.

I am not interested in the note taking, although it may prove useful at some
point, I want it as a large e-ink reader for technical books.

------
hrktb
The hardware seems really great. Sony has a ton of experience in e-readers, I
trust their capability to pull out marvelous hardware, and this is a product
that feels a really valuable spot on the market.

Except, there is so few informations on the software. It seems the supported
sync service is worldox [1], as it's the only link in the sidebar and there is
no explicit mention of any other solution. Does this means one has to contract
this service provider just to wirelessly sync this device ?

Of course, no mention of an SDK or any third party integration.

As usual with Sony, the hardware seems perfect and the software an
afterthought.

[1] [http://www.worldox.com](http://www.worldox.com)

~~~
knightofmars
The user manual states, "By using the WebDAV protocol, you can access a
specific network drive to synchronize documents between the Digital Paper
device and the network drive, or transfer documents from the device to the
network drive. Connect to a Wi-Fi network beforehand (page 38)." [1]

[1]([http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/assetDownloadController/User_Guide....](http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/assetDownloadController/User_Guide.pdf?path=Asset%20Hierarchy$Professional$SEL-
yf-generic-427521$SEL-yf-generic-427522SEL-asset-427524.pdf&id=StepID$SEL-
asset-427524$original&dimension=original))

~~~
hrktb
Nice. Auto-sync is also featured, it's way more interesting than I thought.

------
personlurking
Here's a hands-on

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzIx0InzJIw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzIx0InzJIw)

~~~
crusso
It looked like the guy giving the demo was very careful to not rest his wrist
on the tablet. Writing without resting your wrist rarely gives good results,
in my experience.

I wonder if wrist pressure confuses the tablet about where the pen is?

~~~
joezydeco
Just taking a guess here but that pen is probably passive and the screen is
capacitive. Unless there's some multitouch capability in the reader that's
just not ready yet, placing the wrist or palm on the screen would definitely
screw up the pen pointer.

~~~
scholia
The spec says "Compatible with electromagnetic induction-type touch pen input"

------
mbq
Onyx made something like that already; the software is terrible (although
hackable) and there is no place to attach stylus to the reader, but it is only
~300USD

[http://www.amazon.com/Onyx-M92-Black-Pearl-
Edition/dp/B00BBD...](http://www.amazon.com/Onyx-M92-Black-Pearl-
Edition/dp/B00BBD1LUI/)

------
froo
If they really wanted to go after the note-taking market hard, they should
have created a way to have the "eraser" in the opposite end of the stylus
rather than have to go through a menu system to modify notes.

For me then, it would go from "yeah, its kinda neat" to "I really ought to
consider giving them my money for this"

------
bazzargh
I used to have one of these:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ILiad](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ILiad)

The iRex Iliad had a big screen and you could write on it with a stylus. It
ran linux and didn't use proprietary file formats, so was great for actually
doing stuff.

BUT

The refresh rate on the screen meant that doing anything with the stylus was
painful. It lagged way too much. I see nothing in the specs for the sony
device that refers to this problem with e-ink, and no video demo. Anyone have
better info?

------
discardorama
The resolution seems to be about 150DPI. Unfortunately, I've been spoiled by
Apple's Retina display :-(

But still: $1100? When an iPad (which can do so much more) is ~$500 ? Once
again, Sony seems to be miscalculating.

~~~
SeanDav
ipad is heavier, smaller, not useable in bright light and with poor battery
life in comparison. In fact, where is no comparison.

~~~
gress
The iPad Air is light enough - I use one all day. The smaller size of the iPad
is an advantage for portability. The iPad battery is more than good enough for
a full day of work, so the comparison is empty. The iPad is highly usable in
all indoor conditions. Bright sunlight is a problem for it.

That's only one advantage the Sony device has that matters, and it's a niche
one.

~~~
kgabis
Comparing this to ipad is pointless. It's a paper replacepemt, not a computer
replacement.

~~~
gress
An iPad is a paper replacement too.

------
eponeponepon
It's thoroughly disappointing that they're sticking to PDF for this. In every
other way, it looks like progress, but not supporting EPUB is a pretty long
step backwards, imho.

~~~
rando289
And how about a terminal and some vim/emacs so I can develop comfortably in
sunlight?

~~~
eponeponepon
Good god yes. I would just about kill for that.

...though I might insist on nano ;)

------
kin
The demand is no doubt there. This needs to be executed well and priced well
also. I'm going to bet it's neither. Sony is notorious for high prices. Also,
who's to say the writing feels as natural as they're making it look?

------
codezero
The first ebook reader I bought was a Sony and it was great. I preferred it to
the kindle at the time because it let me import any format file into it via
USB. So I have no issues with the brand as others do. Sony has a solid
presence though on the periphery of the eInk scene. My only concern with this
device is input latency. Every eInk screen I've used that takes input has too
high of a latency for annotation to feel as natural as pen and paper.

------
bryanthompson
I remember when [http://noteslate.com/](http://noteslate.com/) launched their
site & demos and being excited, checking back weekly, then monthly, then
realized that it was all a big cloud of vaporware.

I hope Sony actually goes through with this. I currently use an ipad mini &
notesplus with a jot pro - it's a good setup and works well, but I still find
myself reaching for legal pads half the time.

~~~
c0ldfusion
This product is already out in Japan. So at least it's not vaporware.

~~~
slantyyz
Do you have a link for a place that sells it? I can't find seem to find it.

------
thorntonbf
A device like this has such awesome potential, but I am so underwhelmed by
Sony's execution.

$1000 +, closed to common eReader document types and no path to openness for
developers.

Add in Sony's miserable record for supporting their customers after they move
to the next flavor of the week and this is a great illustration of their march
towards increasing irrelevance.

~~~
Rizz
I bought a sony e-reader 5 years ago, it still functions fine. Sony did
however give up their e-reader business in the past weeks, but they have
transferred all purchased books to a different vendor, so I don't lose
anything. And earlier when they discontinued their own proprietary DRM format,
they freely converted all books to EPUB.

I have had no problems with how well Sony has supported me as a customer,
despite their organization going through changes.

------
Edmond
If this is real it may finally be the dream of anyone who's ever wanted an
electronic notebook!

I will go back to school just to use this!

------
higherpurpose
Didn't they just kill their e-book store recently?

Also, from the images it does look like it would be "e-ink" but I see no
mention of it on the page. Is it really "e-ink" (like Kindle) or just
"e-paper", which is just a transflective LCD (Pebble, Notion Ink Adam, etc).

~~~
mbrubeck
"e ink" is a trademark of the E Ink Corporation. Other vendors of e-paper
displays can't use the same name, regardless of what type of display
technology they use.

------
thu
I see an on-screen keyboard on one of their promotional pictures, could this
be used as a lightweight dumb terminal ?

If not, what would be a possible e-ink device to display an SSH terminal over
Wifi and pair with a bluetooth keyboard ?

~~~
RBerenguel
I remember seeing a rooted kindle used for that. Digged the article up:
Kindleberry Pi: [http://www.ponnuki.net/2012/09/kindleberry-
pi/](http://www.ponnuki.net/2012/09/kindleberry-pi/)

~~~
thu
Thanks, the idea of using a shared GNU Screen session is nice. This means that
actually instead of an RPi and additional keyboard, the e-ink screen could
simply be laid on a laptop.

------
T-zex
Its always great to see new e-ink products. I think they are unreasonably
overshadowed by the tablets.

[off topic] Are there any recent product launches which would not feature a
cup of coffee on their landing page?

------
fuzzythinker
I know this sounds like nitpicking, like complaining about the cup holder in a
luxury car, but the stylus holder is just too ugly and an afterthought for a
$1k device. Why they even bother to point out the design as if they were proud
of it? Why can't they just use the palmV or many other push to eject design?
That holder thing sticks out so much that I not only feel embarrassed to show
it off, but fear it'll break any moment. And this is from SONY?

------
srd
eInk based ebook readers have been around since at least the iRex in '06\. My
current jetBook in the same format as the Sony here even has 4096 colors. The
thing that always kept theory from practice for me was the high latency when
doing the actual annotations. 150ms is too much when writing and your pen is 3
strokes ahead of the display.

Is this reader any different? Just looking at the page, I don't quite get what
makes it different and HN worthy?

------
acc01
Previously:
[http://www.asus.com/Eee_Family/Eee_Note_EA800/](http://www.asus.com/Eee_Family/Eee_Note_EA800/)

------
accidc
The Bridgestone Aerobee was another device that seemed fit all the
specifications for a electronic notebook. Bridgestone had teamed up with a
Delta Electronics to bring these out but killed it.

Does anyone know how qr-lpd compares to e-ink?

[http://www.slashgear.com/bridgestone-aerobee-flexible-e-
pape...](http://www.slashgear.com/bridgestone-aerobee-flexible-e-paper-shown-
off-in-video-18146724/)

------
frik
I wonder why Amazon doesn't release a new version of Kindle DX (9.7" E Ink
Display).

Its hardware is comparable to the old Kindle 2. The Kindle DX was withdrawn
from sale in October 2012, but in September 2013 was made available again. An
improved Kindle DX with touch support for $199 would be awesome. Color e-ink
displays exist for years, add one.

The new Sony Digital Paper for $1100 is too expensive .

------
dragontamer
Seems good, but the honest competition to this would be all the other tablets
with styluses.

Surface Pro, Galaxy Tab, Asus Vivotab Note. Each hit vastly different price
ranges (Surface Pro ~$900 high-quality device, Galaxy Tab rounds out $500
mark, and Vivotab Note hits $300).

I doubt Sony can beat the Vivotab Note on price / performance, and I doubt it
can win on flexibility vs Android or Surface Pro.

------
ihaveone
I want this so bad, I have a Kindle DX that's pretty good but I just want to
be able to 'print' directly to it and have it automatically turn on and show
it. This is getting there with the pen, I love that idea. They should have it
sync back after you annotate it automatically. That's friction free.

------
jber
I want it now!! But I bought a Sony E-Reader before a Kindle 5 years ago.
Their customer service was very bad :(

------
therealmarv
What we need is a android tablet, combined e-ink and the power of a Samsung
Note. Then we have a kindle reader (through the app), a note taking device and
can also read something from apps like pocket and Evernote... at least I can
dream about it.

------
taylorbuley
Very cool. Except the "Click here to be contacted for more information about
Digital Paper" leads to a "Contact Us" form. Do I use a "Contact Us" form to
ask Sony to "Contact Me" whenever it releases this?

------
0xdeadbeefbabe
Some grep would be nice, and I don't mean the kindle touch search experience:
tap, wait, tap search, wait, type, wait, type, wait, type, enter, wait, browse
results, tap to scroll, wait, browse results, tap to scroll.

------
hamxiaoz
$1100 price will kill it unless it doesn't target normal customers.

------
lrem
There is still a pretty significant delay between writing and the text
appearing. Nothing like the prototype display Microsoft was showcasing some
time ago.

I wonder if this may be a limitation of e-ink.

------
Altenuvian
finally! looks great and I hope sony doesn't mess this up.

and please make a external monitor version! preferably 24" so I can have a
secondary monitor dedicated to word-processing.

even though refresh times might be slow for anything else having an e-paper
external monitor for word-processing would make total sense from an ergonomics
perspective. a lot of people spend many hours a day writing/editing text and
e-paper is much more eye-friendly.

------
sizzle
I remember getting a Sony Clie PDA, the software was a pain to sync and then
they stopped supporting it. Really irked me back then

------
sebnukem2
Can I read my large collection of Kindle books with it? A negative answer is a
deal breaker, and I suspect I'm not alone.

~~~
msh
yes, if you remove the DRM from your books (pretty easy).

------
njharman
Thought Finally! But, too soon $1000 is way, 2-4 times, too much. Back to
waiting.

~~~
X4
a) Would you please tell me where you found how much it costs and where I can
buy it please?

b) I really need something like this urgently. $1000 isn't much, if it makes
your life measurably easier. It IS expensive, but unlike tablets, smartphones,
convertibles and notebooks this is something that directly effects my
productivity.

c) I was hoping for foldable Mirasol or Electrowetting (EWD) displays in Q1
2014 since 2009 and it's still not there. These are the most promising display
technologies that I know of, which are still hold back for reasons that I
simply don't understand. It may have to do with the Display Technology
Cartels, bad marketing, or no funding. I just wish to know why Electrowetting
isn't mainstream yet. See here:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf1GjCaYzYg](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf1GjCaYzYg)
The MirasolHD 5,1" display prototype with 2.560 x 1.440 Pixel had a pixel
depth of incredible 577 ppi and you could use clearly see everything at direct
sunlight. Here's an old video I found:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDoVzKd9H4U](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDoVzKd9H4U)

PS: It makes me quite sad and disappointed that we still don't have this
technology:

[http://imgur.com/a/Pr2Sq](http://imgur.com/a/Pr2Sq)

~~~
sosborn
>still hold back for reasons that I simply don't understand

I'm speculating, but in general the only thing that holds good technology back
is an inability to scale manufacturing to the point where it is profitable.

~~~
X4
yeah that makes a lot of sense, good point!

------
vapour
I don't want to charge my paper thanks.

~~~
e12e
Ah, but you only need to charge if it you want to change what's printed on
it...

------
blisse
Pricing doesn't matter until this gets into a good reviewer's hands (Anand!).
But yeah this is amazing if it functions perfectly eventually at ~$400

------
sergiotapia
That battery life is delicious. That's the first thing I looked for and I'm
happy Sony came through!

------
BugBrother
The probable killer problem: What is the page switch time? Can I browse pdf
manuals on this? (My iPad 3 is a bit too slow imho. Will get an Air)

Speed in general? How is it to write notes on? Linux/wireless support?

~~~
vixen99
Indeed! To expand a little, can I also download a text from Gutenberg public
domain classics, convert to pdf (via LibreOffice for instance) and read on
this machine along, as you say, with all the public domain articles and books
I have in the same format?

------
happyscrappy
Looks nice but I don't see a way to zoom in, which is a deal breaker for using
it with building plans.

