
Hungarian opera singers declaring themselves African-American - chvik
https://index.hu/english/2019/04/11/porgy_and_bess_hungary_all_black_cast_statement_african_heritage/
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mcv
_" As per the request of heirs of Gershwin's catalogue, only Afro-American
singers are allowed to perform the piece, and maybe this was due to a mistake,
but the fact is that the Hungarian Opera was offered a contract last year that
did not have the famous "all-black cast" clause, which they ended up going
for."_

The requirement of allowing only Afro-American singers seems unreasonably
restrictive if you want it to be performed outside the US. And having an all-
black cast is not the same thing. Not all black people are American. Not all
black people trace their ancestry to Africa (except in the way all humans
eventually do, of course). And not all Africans are black.

So mixing up black and Afro-American may usually end up being the same thing
when you're in the US, outside the US it becomes a lot more complex. It
becomes a requirement to hire people from the US and a ban on local singers
who didn't emigrate from the US.

There is of course the letter of the rule and the spirit of the rule. The
piece is explicitly about black Americans. Does that mean it can't be
performed by non-Americans? By people who aren't black? If it turns out there
are no black opera singers in Hungary, does this mean Hungarians shouldn't be
exposed to this important piece of black culture? It does feel a bit like one
of those cases where a totally justified attempt to to justice to an oppressed
minority in the US turns into American cultural imperialism once you leave the
country. Then again, it is a piece of American culture.

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sandworm101
When I was at school in the US I had a minor medical procedure. One of the
forms required me to list my race. My doctor was Egyptian and having grown up
in the middle east myself we joked about whether he qualified as African
american or if he could medically identify my race. Race has no medical
definitions and worldwide few courts would ever dare tell someone their race.
This case is going nowhere. The opera has made a valid artistic point and
won't be forced to change the cast.

That said, the US is one of the few places where courts remain willing to
determine race and/or religious identity. It isn't common but it does come up
(wills, immigration/asylum, some issues involving native american tribes, and
cases where people have lied on various forms). If this case can find a way
into a US court the opera would not win.

~~~
toasterlovin
> Race has no medical definitions

On the contrary, race is extremely useful information in certain medical
contexts. Black Americans have different risk profiles for certain cardio-
vascular conditions than white Americans. And European Jews suffer a higher
incidence of certain recessive genetic diseases (so much so that genetic
screening is basically routine for couples where both parents have Ashkenazi
ancestry).

~~~
x0137294744532
You are describing the ethnicity, not the race. Race refers only to the skin
color of the person, whereas ethnicity refers to the cultural and lineage
aspect of that person.

~~~
toasterlovin
The line between the two terms is blurry, but race is certainly not strictly
about skin color. Here is the definition of race in my computer's dictionary:

> Each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical
> characteristics.

Then, further down:

> a group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an
> ethnic group

~~~
ScottFree
If you look up the definitions of those words using the 1828 dictionary, you
get something very interesting.

ETH'NICAL, adjective [Latin ethnicus; Gr. from nation from the root of G.
heide, heath, woods, whence heathen. See Heathen.]

Heathen; pagan; pertaining to the gentiles or nations not converted to
christianity; opposed to Jewish and Christian.

ETH'NIC, noun A heathen; a pagan.

RACE, noun [Latin radix and radius having the same original. This word
coincides in origin with rod, ray, radiate, etc.]

1\. The lineage of a family, or continued series of descendants from a parent
who is called the stock. A race is the series of descendants indefinitely.
Thus all mankind are called the race of Adam; the Israelites are of the race
of Abraham and Jacob. Thus we speak of a race of kings, the race of Clovis or
Charlemagne; a race of nobles, etc.

~~~
sandworm101
Which is more complicated by the US concept of an "american race", something
that isn't even seen as racial in term of skin color. It is used to draw a
line between those descendants of the stock "real" Americans.

To quote the TV Show American Dad's theme song "Shining a salute to the
American race." ... a line I thought would be very controversial but just
isn't.

~~~
toasterlovin
FWIW, I have never encountered the concept of the "American race". Are you
sure it's actually a thing? To me the line from American Dad's theme song
seems like a joke (since America has many races).

~~~
ScottFree
According to Webster's 1828 dictionary

AMER'ICAN, noun A native of America; originally applied to the aboriginals, or
copper-colored races, found here by the Europeans; but now applied to the
descendants of Europeans born in America.

~~~
toasterlovin
That's nice, but:

1\. It's a definition for the word 'American', not the phrase 'American race'.

2\. It's from 1828. I don't think usage from 190 years ago is very relevant.
Language changes pretty quickly.

3\. That does not match what OP was talking about. They were talking about a
further distinction _within_ white Americans. Unless I'm mistaken.

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0815test
Context: this is about an opera by George Gershwin, _Porgy and Bess_
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porgy_and_Bess](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porgy_and_Bess)
. Apparently, Gershwin's heirs request that "an African-American cast" be used
in performance. This might actually make some sense as the opera itself is a
bit divisive towards Black culture, and there is a rather long history of
performances by non-African Americans tending to make it even more so. This
statement by the opera cast can be seen as a clarification that they did
intend to properly respect the work, although one can of course argue about
this.

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Impossible
Not the first to make this claim
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Dolezal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Dolezal)

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Creationer
I find these clauses distasteful. What of a requirement that performers be
all-white? If we are going to judge people on their merits and form an
international community of humanity free of racist restrictions, we go all in.

~~~
scotty79
I wonder if they could just treat this clause as non-existent since in
Hungarian law racial discrimination is illegal and binding agreements can't
contain illegal clauses.

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x86_64Ubuntu
Why is this posted on HackerNews? I mean, I know the reason why, but what's
the handwavy-low-effort reason that it's here?

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scotty79
"I won't lie but I'm fine with saying meaningless things." \- atheist agreeing
to become a godfather.

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pvaldes
Homo sapiens is an african species and the only extant species, so technically
all americans are afro-americans and all europeans are afro-europeans.

Banning white people from playing black music or representing black culture
(or claiming that this is disrespectful for the black people that created it),
is as ludicrous as would be banning black people from using light bulbs,
microphones, tv, spanish/electric guitars, pianos, cars... invented by white
people, therefore "white culture" (and often built by asians).

~~~
mcv
What's more, I think restricting "black" culture to black people only, carries
the risk of keeping it fringe and preventing it from becoming mainstream.

Now Porgy & Bess is solidly mainstream of course, and black culture is
absolutely a vital part of its context and necessary to understand and
appreciate it, and there's absolutely something to be said for ensuring that
it won't be separated from that context, but I think it's also possible to
have it performed by white Hungarians in a way that does justice to that
context, and I certainly think it's important that white Hungarians are able
to enjoy it.

And then there's also the option of translating it to a different ethnic group
in a somewhat comparable situation. Not sure what a good fit would be in
Hungary; Roma maybe? Muslim immigrants? That would certainly make it more
immediately relevant.

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fierarul
Weaponized culture.

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RickJWagner
Seems like a clear violation of Gershwin's wishes to me. It's a great work, I
imagine Gershwin wanted it to be a gift to the intended recipients.

I think it's wrong.

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magrimu
Some extra context from the linked Guardian article:

>The opera house was in the news last year when it cancelled 15 performances
of the musical Billy Elliot after rightwing media claimed it could “turn
children gay”.

