
22 and no life - rootkat
I'm 22 and have no life. No car, no job, no money, and no future as I can see. I'm stuck in a rut and don't know how to get out. I'm really tech savvy (no degree unfortunately; money took care of that one for me; I seriously tried and tried and tried.)and i'm an aspiring programmer and producer/audio engineer and I can't find work ANYWHERE. I live in a town called Yakima, WA. and all it consists of is fast food chains, big box retail stores and the extreme use of drugs. I've tried over and over again to find a job and save some money so I can move or get out of this hell hole; but to no avail have I come closer to what I want.  To just be O.K. for once. The last two years of my life have been hell and I can't seem to straighten things out. I've moved across the country only to be taken advantage of by family, I've been homeless, and I'm scared. I don't exactly know why i'm posting this, in all honesty I don't really have that many friends or people to talk to. I just don't know what to do anymore.
======
zaphar
I've been where you are right now. Only I was married with 4 kids and one on
the way. No job, No home, No degree, and what looked like No future.

I don't know what your exact circumstances are but here is how I went from
there to working for Google.

1\. I got exposure. I hung out online with open source developers and
participated. I did stuff in perl and blogged about it.

2\. I did whatever I needed to to survive and support my family while doing
the above. For awhile I worked as temp manual labor for Labor Ready. It was
first come first served but if you did a good job companies would request you
and you would have a job any time you stepped in the door.

3\. I eventually managed to get contract work and continued to hone my skills
and ability as a coder.

4\. Finally I got noticed and was recruited by a company in chicago that later
got bought by Google. I survived the transition and have been working at
Google ever since.

You're path might not be exactly the same as mine but there are two key parts
of my experience that you can learn from. Fisrt OpenSource gives you Exposure
and Skill building that you can leverage. Second that menial jobs are a
sometimes a necessary stepping stone but that they can be temporary.

Good Luck and don't give up.

~~~
Paul_D_Santana
How does one find an (appropriate) open source project to contribute to,
especially as a C#, Asp.Net or Java developer?

~~~
sctechie
Your lack of ability to google or search on your own is a bit worrisome, but I
spent a few minutes doing your work for you. =)

There 18k+ open source repos on github for c#:
[https://github.com/search?l=C%23&q=c&type=Repositori...](https://github.com/search?l=C%23&q=c&type=Repositories&utf8=%E2%9C%93)

There are 44k+ open source repos on github for java:
[https://github.com/search?l=Java&q=c&type=Repositori...](https://github.com/search?l=Java&q=c&type=Repositories&utf8=%E2%9C%93)

I'm not even gonna bother for Asp.Net.

Now, for some real advice. 'Open Source' and microsoft don't exactly go
together like peanut butter and jelly. Yes, there are some open source
projects for the MS ecosystem but it's just not in the culture.

If you don't want to transfer your current skills to the Linux world, you
should find a large, open source c# project and just run with it.

Good luck.

~~~
dpcan
I think: By saying "appropriate" he wasn't really asking how to find open
source projects in his language of choice, but how to know which ones will
eventually get him noticed, or how to pick the open source project that seems
to have meaning to other people, etc.

It appears that the op may have had a stroke of good luck by picking the
perfect OS projects. It would be a bummer to extend yourself in an area that
nobody cares about if the whole purpose were to get noticed.

If using Open Source as a self-promotion tool, it's important to choose
wisely.

~~~
Paul_D_Santana
Yes! Exactly. Thank you for understanding what I meant.

I want to hear about the decision process behind how or why Zaphar chose the
open source project he did, and how others here choose their open source
projects?

Just a little advice, so that I too (and others reading), can (wisely) choose
our first open source project to contribute to.

~~~
zaphar
I just chose what I liked and had fun with. Hung out with people working on
Blender. Hung out in the perl IRC channel on freenode. Hung out with a group
doing an Open Source game called Planeshift which wasn't high profile in any
way but it gave me experience. And put me in contact with people who had
connections.

~~~
Paul_D_Santana
Hah I really like the IRC idea (especially since I don't know anyone like you
do). Just joined the Ruby channel as a test at: <http://irc.lc/freenode/ruby-
lang>

------
rdouble
Work anywhere you can until you can save up about $5000. Then go to Australia
on the working holiday visa. You can make $16/hr picking tomatoes or as a
barista or $25 an hour shuffling stuff around at a building site. Save $20K
while enjoying life, then move to California and do a 2 year degree at a
community college for $36 per credit. Get good grades then transfer to a UC to
complete a bachelor's at in state tuition costs.

~~~
elithrar
> You can make $16/hr picking tomatoes or as a barista or $25 an hour
> shuffling stuff around at a building site.

These figures sound good compared to US min. wages, but given the
(substantially) increased cost of living I'm not sure this is good advice.

~~~
rdouble
It's expensive but it's workable, and you can still save money. The minimum
wage is federal, so you get paid the same as a barista in Sydney as you do in
regional Australia. Also, I suggested it because the working holiday visa is
available. I'm not sure if there any other countries which even offer such an
option to Americans.

~~~
edsrzf
New Zealand offers a similar Visa, but you'll be better off in Australia if
you want to make money.

~~~
bwb
Agreed, I'm in AU now with my brother and he makes $20 an hour working retail
at a bookstore. Housing and the rest is expensive though, so count on finding
a shared house and a commute. And living cheaply while you save + work on your
coding abilities.

------
calvin
I changed careers five years ago. Up until that point of my life, I'd
primarily worked in customer service jobs despite having a B.A.

What I did:

1) found the first job I could in the Seattle area (it was a call center job)

2) attended tech / startup community events (meetups, hack days, etc)

3) got lucky by meeting helpful folks in the tech community

4) worked on side projects on nights and weekends to grow my web development
skills

5) found my first paying freelance dev work

6) found more paying freelance dev work

7) took a webdev job at a startup

From there a lot more has happened, but I've been in a webdev role ever since
and continued learning new skills and taking opportunities to grow and
contribute.

This is only one story and one perspective, but I hope you find a way out of
the problems you're facing.

~~~
polemic
> _"attended tech / startup community events (meetups, hack days, etc)"_

This really is the key to doing what you love. "Hanging around" leads to
opportunities, whether it's through open source contributions to a project you
like, pestering people at meetups, being a particularly keen and vocal user of
a product you love.

------
mladenkovacevic
You are 22. You have 8 years, or 70 thousand and 80 hours until you turn 30.
If half of that time is spent sleeping, you still have over 35 thousand hours
to dedicate yourself to becoming a master at something. If Malcolm Gladwell's
law of 10,000 hours is valid, that gives you three and a half chances to start
something, completely waste your time, and start anew. And that's just until
you turn 30. It's not that you have no life... it's just that it hasn't even
started yet. Now go read this thing about Ang Lee
[http://jeffjlin.com/2013/02/23/ang-lee-and-the-
uncertainty-o...](http://jeffjlin.com/2013/02/23/ang-lee-and-the-uncertainty-
of-success/)

~~~
vijayr
That is a really inspiring link, thank you for sharing.

 _It got so discouraging that Lee reportedly contemplated learning computer
science so he could find a job during this time, but was scolded by his wife
when she found out, telling him to keep his focus._

Wow, if only more spouses/boyfriends/girlfriends are so supportive...

------
rwhitman
Producer/audio engineer will get you no where. There are a million "producers"
out there without work, and honestly focusing too much on the music industry
was really what set me back on my career by about 5 years. Call it a hobby and
move on.

"Programmer" however will solve all of your financial problems for the rest of
your life. Invest as much effort as you can into building up your skills and
tell everyone you can about them. Email every business in town with a list of
your tech skills. Go on ODesk make a profile and list those skills. Respond to
every gig posted on there. Check Craigslist, Elance, rentacoder whatever. Find
a few gigs, build your skillset and once you are confident enough in what you
do, work will just start to find you. As soon as you can afford it get the
hell out of your small town and move to a larger market. Everything will
change

------
matiu
This is how I got out of a similar situation. I hope it helps:

When I was there, I made a flyer: "Computer Whiz-kid Seeks Work" .. like a
news paper headline. Did some bullet points:

* Website design/fixing * Desktop Publishing * Data entry * Virus Removal * Computer Speedup

then some blurb .. I'm 22 and really good with computers. Give me a call if I
can help you out with anything.

I distributed 100 fliers in a trading estate and a shopping mall, and got 3
job offers. One turned sour and the guy tried to sue me, one was a one off,
and the last one got me a job converting .eps and .ai files for a sign writing
plotter machine.

This company had associations with gangs and a drug using boss, who sometimes
slapped me on the back of the head and called me a f __ __ing idot. However
that job set me up for my next job and following career.

At that time, I was 13k in debt, and had no degrees. To get off the street, I
bought a car for $150 to live in. The Methodist city mission was very helpful
to me, giving me free, or $2 meals once a day. Also the Hari Krishna
restaurant had good cheap food.

From the car, I moved in to a friend's part-under-the-house where the supports
and dirt is, and lived rent free in exchange for doing chores.

That's when I managed to get that job controlling a sign writing plotter. Also
I had to go through 6 months of being sued and had a bit of a breakdown, but
it's all good now.

At that time I was 20/21. Now I am 38.

I hope it works out. Just keep sowing seeds, and soon enough some will start
to sprout. I think the best place to get work and help is the larger cities.

------
rootkat
Wow! Thank you all for reading/responding, I really didn't think I would get
any sort of response. I'm very much taking your guys' insight into
consideration and will be contacting some of you! I'm feeling beyond motivated
right now. Seriously, thank you guy's!!

------
Mahn
Side note to the advice being given here: getting a job, any kind of job, is
usually the best way to get to know people, and this should be your ultimate
goal: having people you can turn to for a talk or a walk makes wonders to
remove the shitty feeling of having no life, even if you have no car and
barely enough money to survive.

(Speaking of which, we should probably organize HN meet ups more often)

------
cwilson
As others have said, you need to get out of that town.

I live in San Francisco and love it, but the cost of living here isn't exactly
low and unless you have a job lined up or are already freelancing, it's going
to be tough.

Instead consider other towns. Others have already mentioned Seattle, but I'd
also consider Austin, specially because you mentioned both tech AND audio
engineering. Austin is the live music capital of the world for a reason, and
it has a great tech scene to boot (not to mention a really low cost of
living... I say all of this being born and raised in Austin).

If you'd like some contacts in Austin (or more advice) I know of a few tech
startups hiring, freelancers who could help you find good first gigs, and have
a ton of friends and even family in the music industry in the city. Shoot me
an email and I'll see what I can do: cullen@sponsorfied.com

------
webwright
At your age I was working in a bookstore for 7.75 an hour. After that, I
worked a graveyard shift at a residential treatment facility for 11/hour.
Since then I've built and sold companies, raised venture money, etc. I started
the good stuff near the age of thirty but I enjoyed the low-money years.

Step one is getting yourself happy. Punt the toxic people in your life, focus
on friendships, exercise, and mental health (it sounds like you're depressed),
and save up a few nickels. There'll be time enough for financial ambition down
the road.

------
ruswick
I'm in what might be considered a precursor to this situation. I'm a high
schooler and although I have a fair amount of technical skill, finding
employment has been a fruitless endeavor. I fear that my inability to find
freelance work or secure an internship will preclude me from the vast majority
of jobs. Moreover, my grades are fairly mediocre (something largely
attributable to depression and general apathy), which effectively prevents
being accepted to most colleges. This then puts me into a situation whereby
I'm forced to attend a state university, which, although technically has a
lower sticker price, has a higher net cost because state schools don't meet
full need. Moreover, in many cases obtaining a degree from middling college is
tantamount to not having a degree. (Obviously, the majority of institutions
still have a positive ROI but the return plumets as one descends college
rankings.) I spend every day worried that I'll graduate with a relatively
worthless education and little employment experience into a market in which I
have no capacity for employment saddled with tens of thousands in debt.

~~~
goldfeld
Boy, if you start contributing to some open source project at your age, you'll
be so ahead of the game. And you can do it from anywhere, for free (well,
provided your access to HN is free.) Get yourself early exposure and it will
be like a an investment fund that keep on giving compound interest.

------
ambiate
Move in with someone. Attend community college for 2 years taking basics
(anything that can transfer: govt, hist, math, bio, chem, engl) on only PELL
grants. With a 0 EFC and independence, you should qualify for Pell. A Pell
grant should cover books and tuition. Finding someone to take you in should
not be that hard. People love helping others in need.

Second, transfer to somewhere that will take your GPA and translate it
directly into scholarships to pay for the rest of your education. Transfer
that into a masters.

The US college is made for poor people to aspire and start again. Don't take
out Stafford loans until you're working on a bachelor's degree.

(Source: 23, no life, homeless, no money, no car. 3.93 in community college,
transferred to university that covered 75% in scholarships and 25% was
Pell/Stafford. Now 27, still degreeless, but by choice. Finally, landed a
decent job.)

If college is not an option due to existing loans, and this is a complete
shame, craigslist jobs can actually land you freelance work. If college is an
option, ie: no existing loans, shoot me an email.

------
bazillion
Honestly, probably one of the best things you could do is join the military.
If you are tech savvy, then chances are that you can score high enough on the
ASVAB (entry test) in order to get into a really high speed career field. I
joined the Navy, became an arabic linguist, left after a few years, and got a
programming job as a contractor for 102k/year. Here's the process you're
looking at if you want to take a similar route:

1) See your local (you might have to travel a bit) recruiting station and ask
to start the process in joining. I recommend the Navy of all branches, because
I've worked with people of all the other branches and the Navy gives you the
most potential to succeed long-term -- they are the only ones that promote the
idea of cross-training, will burn away your outer weakness by some extremely
crappy years of work ultimately making you a better person, and allow you more
technological opportunities than any other branch.

2) Your recruiter will ask you about your past. This will include drug use,
prior convictions, etc. Hopefully you don't have any felony charges, or you
won't be able to join. There are waivers for various offenses, but some will
preclude you from getting a security clearance job.

3) Take the ASVAB. It is an extremely simple test which tests very basic
concepts that you should already have formed a mental model about if you're a
halfway decent programmer. Example: This lamp post is 30 feet tall and casts a
50 foot shadow -- What is the hypotenuse? (That was a real question). There
are also mechanical things (what type of wrench is this?) and basic english
things. Score in the 80+ range (out of a possible 99...which I maxed out
without breaking a sweat and I'm not a genius) and you can almost guarantee
yourself a security clearance job.

4) Your recruiter will take you to a MEPS station. After they do a bunch of
physical tests on you (normal physician tests like stripping you down and
checking your parts), you will be taken to the most important leg of the
journey -- the guy that will assign you your rating. If you did well on your
ASVAB, this part will be a breeze, because he will mostly be interested in
fitting you in to where you're comfortable. As a programmer, your goal is to
get one of these ratings in order to get yourself into a job that can leverage
your skills. Even though I was an arabic linguist, I was allowed to build
unlimited amounts of tools in order to support missions, and that eventually
just became my job. I was in the military and could come in to work whenever I
wanted to and basically do whatever I wanted to. This is the exception more
than the rule, however, but it's still a possibility if you have an excellent
work ethic. The jobs that get you into said positions are: CTI, CTT, CTN, CTR,
IT (secure). All of these will require a 6 year obligation (4 year + 2 year
extension).

5) Boot camp. It was basically one of the more enjoyable periods of my life.
Every day is mapped out on a bi-hourly basis about what you're going to be
doing from the minute you get there to the minute you graduate. You can look
on the schedule and see what you're going to be doing 2 hours and 4 weeks
later, and that will be exactly what you'll be doing. The structure will allow
you find out things about yourself and your capabilities which you might not
be aware of. I had barely graduated high school (1.8 gpa) and had a couple
months of work at subway, but the experience awakened a great motivation to
succeed in me, and it just might do the same for you too.

6) A-School. Depending on the rating (job) you chose, this will be different.
For the non-CTI jobs, you'll be going to lovely (sarcasm) Pensacola, FL. The
experience is great, and it's a good stepping stone to re-introduce you back
into the world after having everything taken away from you in boot camp. If
you chose CTI then you'll be going to the Defense Language Institute (DLI).
It's basically college, except you're paid to go. Would recommend.

7) C-School -- most likely still in Pensacola if you're a non-CTI, and if
you're a CTI it will just be at your final duty station. This will be where
you learn more advanced things, and will be influenced by your scores on tests
in A school. The great part about this is that there's no homework since
everything is classified, which is why I was able to do really well here. Only
knowledge and practical ability matters (which is the common theme that you'll
find in most of the Navy).

8) Final duty station. This can be many places around the world, but if you
specifically want to program then you want to be stationed at an NSA facility.
The NSA is the _only_ government agency that really promotes people to think
outside the box -- trust me, I've worked at all of the others. I never
programmed anything for real until I went there, and there was a program we
used where you had to add the number 9 to a calculation before entering it in.
I asked "shouldn't the computer just do that?" and no matter how many trouble
tickets we submitted, no one would resolve it. So, I asked the person who had
created the program 20 years ago if I could modify the program to fix it -- he
handed me the Perl cookbook and said go for it. That spawned an entire career.
You'll find that people there, although _odd_ , will be more open to change
than anywhere else in the government.

Once you have 6 years in (which will be the minimum for a job like this),
you'll be 28/29 with a lot of skills, experience, and a security clearance.
You'll have met people working at various contracting companies that will hire
you, or you can apply at various government agencies that will easily snatch
you up.

About me: I started out as an EW (electronic warfare technician) tech which
was 2 years of electronics schooling. I served on a ship for 2 years and
cross-rated to CTI to learn arabic. After finishing 9 years total in the Navy,
I collected a total of 62,000 dollars in bonus money. I left the Navy with no
debt, a car, a lot of money in the bank, a 92k offer and a 102k offer and
three full months of collecting my Navy paycheck after leaving (terminal pay).
I took the higher job offer and worked that for a year, conceiving of, writing
the requirements for, and building (by myself) a computer program that saved
the government an estimated 3 million dollars (along with writing a bunch of
piddly scripts and API's that have saved a few million more and continue to be
used). I'm 29 now and have saved up enough money that I dont have to work for
2 years and can focus on bootstrapping my own startup. The Navy and my work
ethic (and ability to save money) gave me that, and it can give it to you too.

If you'd like more information, message me and I'd be glad to help.

~~~
willurd
I almost joined the navy right out of high school. I went through much of the
recruiting process, but ultimately decided against it. For me, that was one of
the best decisions of my life. For you, you should consider it, but give a lot
of thought to it before you even start the recruiting process. Military
recruiters will lie to you and your family (maybe not all of them, but it
happened to me) to make sure you join and if you don't have a lot of
determination to exit the recruiting process, you will likely get sucked in
even if you change your mind.

~~~
bazillion
My first chief, who is a great inspiration in my life, was once a recruiter. I
asked him how he felt about recruiting, and if he had to lie to get people to
join. His response was this:

"I never had to lie to anyone about joining the military. The secret is that
no one walks into my office if everything is going right in their life. I just
find what that problem is, and figure out how the military can solve it."

Recruiters can't effectively tell you lies if you know everything you need to
know. In my case, my father had been a sonar tech and had told me what to
expect like what I posted up there -- I already knew what I was getting into
when I walked into that office. Don't go to a recruiter (and potentially waste
their time) if you haven't done the due diligence to research a very life-
changing decision.

~~~
NegativeK
Some recruiters will tell you flat-out lies. I had three (two from one branch,
one from another) try to convince me that breaking my arm twice as a youth
wasn't worth telling the processors. The pair that tag-teamed me were
conveniently ignoring the framed statement in their very office that said that
lying about anything during your recruitment process was a violation of the
UCMJ.

I really hope those three guys were in the minority, but it left a bad taste
in my mouth.

~~~
bazillion
It's very important that everything medical before and during your career is
documented. First off, a lot of the physical and mental stress down the road
can exacerbate previous conditions and lead to more major problems. Secondly,
everything that occurs and is documented in your military health record can be
treated for free by any VA medical facility for the rest of your life, even if
you don't have health insurance.

That being said, certain common diagnoses will preclude you from entering
service: ADD/ADHD, bi-polar disorder, bad knees, fibromyalgia, among other
things. Obesity is kind of a no-brainer thing -- there's a maximum body fat
percentage and height/weight ratio.

If it's in your health record right now, then it should definitely be
declared, in my opinion. You'd only be doing yourself a disservice later on by
not doing so.

------
ankurpatel
If your really passionate about software development consider joining App
Academy <http://www.appacademy.io/>

It actually free and you only have to pay them once you get a job after
graduating from their program. Plus the job will be in San Francisco area and
will pay well like about 80K which will help you get out of your current
situation and then you can decide what to do with your life after that.

------
zallarak
Hey there, for what its worth: Try and start building a portfolio if you're
having trouble finding a job. You're 22 years old - don't worry if it involved
bi*chwork; the best thing you can do is ditch any sense of entitlement, and
I'm not saying you have any! I worked in customer service for almost a year
before saving enough money to train as a programmer.. it wasn't easy but with
the right attitude it was a blast. You are in no hole - you are 22 years old
with a passion to make your skill awesome! Hope this helps and work hard -
feel free to contact me off list. Just remember, nothing comes easy, we all
have issues attaining our perceived goals.

Best of luck to you.

~~~
wyclif
This will sound obvious, but since someone else commented about your
portfolio: open a Github account if you haven't already. Push all your work
there. Put the link to your Github on your resume and on your blog. Put your
resume online, use Zerply or one of the other services. Link to that from your
blog as well.

The above works best in conjunction with the other advice here: get into the
open source software world. Hang out on IRC while you're working. Read the
documentation. Blog what you're learning. Make the most of free resources. Go
to meetups related to technologies you're learning if you can.

------
mnicole
Hey OP, hope you read this! I am from the Tri-Cities, so I can relate. At my
very first job in high school I worked with a Flash developer from Yakima who
had been homeless and living in a drug-addled abandoned building with no floor
- so there's definitely hope.

If you're interested in moving an hour and a half south, they have &yet, which
is a strong agency but was just starting when I moved. I went through damn
near every decent web company in the area before finally moving out to
Portland because of how unhappy I was there and how uninspired I was by the
quality of the work being put out by the area.

Eastern Washington - Spokane possibly excluded - is a barren wasteland for
honest web/tech work outside of freelancing and working out at Hanford, and
I'm not sure Yakima has anything worth investing time in either. The cost of
living in the TC can be pretty cheap if you're able to find a gig there, but
public transit sucks. If you want to apply to some dev jobs in Portland (which
would probably be more difficult than finding some in the TC) and get an
interview or two out here, you're welcome to stay with us. I have some friends
your age that are also into audio production and we have jam sessions with our
gear sometimes at our place. Would love to have you if you get any leads.

I am in touch with a few developers still living in the Tri-Cities, too, if
you'd like me to reach out to them as well.

------
booleandilemma
I was in your situation about three years ago, and I'll tell you what I did. I
found a startup company that was willing to hire me for $15/hour as a low
level computer tech. A computer janitor, essentially. I worked "in the field".
My job roles consisted of configuring hundreds of computers by hand,
performing keyboard and screen replacements, and occasionally having to
physically deliver dozens of computers to our clients' office locations. My
fellow techs had never progressed beyond high school, and I had just graduated
a liberal arts college with a CS degree. I felt a little ashamed. To get
attention from management, I started writing software to automate a large
portion of my job. Surprisingly, and fortunately for me, no one had thought to
do this before. The company's sysadmin was excellent, but he lacked a flair
for programming. Management soon moved me into a sysadmin role, and I became
the company's go-to guy for writing programs that would make configuration
changes to our thousands of client machines in the field. My pay was increased
and I got a desk. It helped greatly that I was the only person in our
company's US office that had any programming ability. I guess my advice to you
is to first get your foot in the door doing the most trivial work they'll give
you, and then show them what you're really capable of.

------
GFischer
You sound depressed. If you're 22 and in good health, you have your entire
life ahead of you :) .

You're already living in the United States, a dream for many.

There's probably an entry-level job in one of those chains or retail stores
you can get which will allow you to study on the side - my brother moved from
Uruguay to Canada at about your age, worked at KFC while studying and is now
an extremely sucessful manager in the advertising business.

As zaphar says, if you're tech-savyy, you don't need the degree - getting
exposure will do the trick.

Yakima looks relatively close to Seattle, which is a hot spot for tech, and
I've heard Portland also has a good tech community. Try to go to events there
and socialize. After you get better known, you might get some freelance work
or maybe you can get a position and move there.

I don't know about rent in Yakima, but maybe you can share an apartment with
someone interesting/who shares your interests, or at the very least is
motivated.

I'd try to find some kind of counseling or support group. If you can't find
any in Yakima, there are several in Seattle:

[http://www.freecounselinghelp.com/category/counseling/counse...](http://www.freecounselinghelp.com/category/counseling/counseling-
agencies/location/wa/seattle/)

A non-refundable round trip bus ticket from Yakima to Seattle is about U$ 30
according to Google, so you might be better off paying for some local
counseling.

------
mrjbq7
I'm reminded of the Dave Matthews Band song lyrics:

    
    
      Twenty three and so tired of life
      Such a shame to throw it all away
      The images grow darker still
      Could I have been anyone other than me?
    

You might be feeling down right now, but it is quite likely to be temporary.
The future holds promise for you. Whether it is concentrated effort or
serendipity or rationalization, you will likely be in a better place before
you know it.

------
robeasthope
Hopefully I'm just being paranoid but on the off chance I'll say this:

You sound pretty depressed - remember the best functional description of
depression is an inability to create detailed mental images of the future -
Your entire psyche is focussed on trying to solve all the things you've got
going on (which is natural because want to fix this) but be careful about it
distorting your perspective.

Slow down your thinking and try not to freak out - like others have said you
are young and that gives you time to learn new skills. .

If things get bad or you just want to talk email the Samaritans in the UK -
<http://tinyurl.com/bfghx6q> \- it's all anonymous and they won't care or even
know about the US connection unless you tell them (If anybody knows the US
equivalent or one local to the area, post it below). There are literally
hundreds of people out there that want and can help with these situation but
you've got to seek them out - Western society is terrible dealing with mental
health issues but once you fire up the bat signal decent people come running.
Good luck

------
nonamegiven
Good suggestions here already.

You might look for jobs on Craigslist. It sounds like right now you're looking
for anyjob, for cash/rent. Be willing to do about anything, you're not
choosing a career right now you're just taking money from people without
stealing. Depending on who you work for, some of them might have interesting
ideas or contacts.

If you can get to North Dakota you might work in the oil fields, but I hear
it's hard to find a place to stay; boom times and all.

I don't know the producer business, I'm guessing there's much more opportunity
programming. Don't know your experience. Pick a language, start making stupid
little things and put them on github. The first stuff doesn't have to be
impressive, doesn't have to be web whiz bang, just anything that gets you
thinking in the language. If you get far enough along before you get an
interview you can take the earlier ones down. If you're lucky enough for
someone to consider you earlier, for the type of job you might be talking
about, you can point to even your small silly projects and say "hey, this is
what I've been doing to build my skills."

Whatever language you pick, learn the debugger, it will teach you more than
the debugger.

Read something enjoyable, it's a cheap way to do something good for yourself
and to get your mind off your troubles. Make it non-career oriented at least
some of the time. You can get things at the library, or a used book store.
Finding a good, old, funky used book store is a delight.

Your health matters. Exercise as well as you're able. Challenge yourself to
eat as well as you can on the least amount of money. Beans and such go a long
way for very cheap. These two things can be some of your reading. Learn as
much as you can practically use about them.

Help someone.

~~~
azzkicker
!!!NORTH DAKOTA or the military... It be BOOM times in the oil patch. Housing
is tough, but find a job that will put you up at the man camps. Search google
for north dakota oil jobs and whatnot...

Summer is rolling around so make sure to be there before all the southern guys
come back up after leaving for the winter. I plan on looking for a oil field
job soon. After years in college, grad school, working at a corp job doing
ASICs/FPGAs paying less than 70k, I hear its pretty easy to make +100k in the
oil fields. Just make sure you are "mobile". I won't be slack work but you
will be able to bank enough money to go to school. I hear of plenty of college
age kids working the summer in the fields and end up staying in the fields(
not going back to college). If I where you, plan on working a year or two,
saving up a "pile of money", and then working on some degree. Remember, you
will be a old man in tech by the time you get your degree and what will reduce
your chances for employment. Tech is a wicked mistress!

.... If not, look at Udacity and the other MOOCs.

~~~
azzkicker
Update: I also forgot mentioning looking at getting a two year degree from a
technical school in electronics/medical electronics. There is a massive
shortage of two year degrees level skill workers. That's what the real crying
of "shortage of skill labor" is all about. I have two cousins making "serious
bank" by servicing medical imaging equipment. They make my high tech
engineering degree salary look like peanuts. Both of their employers (siemens
and ge) treat them like kings (training, benefits, continuing education, job
security, bonuses, promotions). Their education was cheap and they made "real"
money right out of school. Do the coding on the side as a hobby or slowly have
someone else like the company you work for pay for your education.

Too many people what to live the Silicon Valley lifestyle. If you can get into
a top 50 school and are backed with some family wealth, you to could do it.
But if you think you are going to be the next 'zuck'... you are going to be in
for a rude awaking. Remember that zuck was from a well to do family, super
smart, and went to an ivy league school. Most Silicon Valley companies only
want people like him. The rest of us do not get to play in the big game...
Life is tough. Get use to it. You will be happier.

------
rootkat
I just want to again say thanks to everyone who responded or took the time to
read what I have written. I've gotten A LOT of good feedback from just about
everybody and have even gotten some job offers. Now that is amazing. I'm truly
inspired by not only some of the stories posted but also from just words of
kindness others have left. Thanks again everybody!

------
teeja
* You're not the lone ranger, many of us have been there. You're right, you're not in a good place.

* ANY job, if you can pare down/get help with your living expenses, is a plus, especially now. Discipline yourself to save to go to the place where your best chances are. Leave no stone unturned.

* Get help! College environments have lots of services and opportunities for people your age - counselling, jobs lists, ride boards, tutoring opportunities. If you've gone to a college, go there. Don't be shy about spelling out your predicament. Someone may hear you who's been there.

* Avoid the drugs, make sure your personal appearance and demeanor is as good as you can make it. Don't give them any excuses to overlook what you know how to do. Doesn't matter whether you score high on their tests if they don't like your look. "Really tech savvy" is NOT easy to find these days, if by that you mean MAD SKILLS. Sell that hard. If you mean "learn fast and will study hard", sell that. And mean it.

------
spoiler
I know how you feel, I am 19 and I feel like crap, but I am chronically
depressed, so I might be in a different position. Did you try seeing if you
suffer from depression? I have/had self loathing issues and depression, which
lead to procrastination (I wasn't _lazy_ , I would be genuinely busy doing a
billion things void of any productive outcome). The procrastination lead to
obvious under performance, etc etc. It was a form of self targeted, passive,
destruction (look at me being all sciency).

P.S: I was on pills until recently, when my psychiatrist told me I can stop
taking them to see if I still need them or not (they also make me _very_ sick
for a short while, roughly 20 to 60 minutes on average), and I am starting to
fall into my old and bad habits, again. Just thought I'd add that if anyone's
wondering about how I feel.

~~~
shadowrunner
Something has to replace the pills, so why not exercise? Start running or
powerlifting. Get active though. This is coming from a guy who has wicked-bad
spells of depression that border on madness. It's scary, but I feel better
after identifying what my keystone habits are and then DOING IT:
[http://zerotosuperhero.com/mindhack/find-your-lifes-last-
kno...](http://zerotosuperhero.com/mindhack/find-your-lifes-last-known-
working-configuration/)

See, that's the thing. We live in a pill generation. An era of instant
gratification and 3 minute microwave meals. The pill is symbolic of our mass
illusion that nothing requires effort anymore. Don't succumb to the lie. Take
the time and do the work to take care of yourself

------
incept
alex [ at ] incept design dot com <<I have a project I will pay you to start
on right now

~~~
rootkat
Thanks! I sent you an email as soon as I could.

------
wcfields
Here's what I'd do if I were you and were really backed into a corner with no
support:

1) Get a job at a call center, this will suck but you can at least pay for
rent off of this.

2) Make flyers and/or find a place that will hire you on to clean Bonsai Buddy
off of grandmas computer. If the job pans out enough you can quit the call
center.

3) Save up all the money you can.

4) Move to Southern California or anywhere with a growing tech scene. Rent an
apartment / room in a cheap part of town (Oakland, parts of LA) that you can
use public transit initially.

5) If necessary repeat steps 1 or 2 until you can get a job doing something
more. In this time attend meetups to meet other people in the industry you
want to be in.

------
thomasmarriott
we're hiring, give me a shout-

~~~
spoiler
Someone give this man a trophy... Or at least an up vote so it gets to the top
of the page so the OP doesn't miss it or spots it easier!!!11one

------
onehundred
How can you be reached? I'd like to help some how, possibly offer you a free
place to stay in the Bay Area (Talk it over with my room mates) and pay for
your flight. Please leave your contact info

~~~
ndesaulniers
Wow, the power of charity!

------
elptacek
When I was 22, I was homeless, too. I didn't really snap to this fact until
many years later: I had no home, therefore I was homeless. Everything I would
want to say to you, someone else has already said in one of the other comments
(eg, rejected by the Air Force, turned out that the best place for me was in
college). So I'm just posting to tell you to keep your pecker up (hey, it's
Scottish and it means keep your spirits up, it just sounds funnier). I'd hug
you, too, if I could. Keep working to outrun your fear.

------
codeonezero
I can give you advice that I would give myself at 22 if I could.

Connect with people who have similar interests than you. They're out there
either online or otherwise but find a group of like minded individuals -
preferably find a group that gets you to connect face to face. If you aren't
comfortable hanging out with them because you keep kicking yourself about your
shortcomings, you need to get over that. But once you find a group just show
up. 80% is just showing up.

Don't over-think. Find something that's interesting to you, and instead of
thinking "wow I don't know if this will pan out" ask yourself "do I enjoy
this?" If the answer is yes, do it. Don't worry too much if in three months
from now you have a better idea and your current idea doesn't seem so
interesting anymore. You're building up experience.

Be social, go someplace that's interesting. Talk to people, even if you're no
good at it, you'll build up social skills. If people don't want to talk back,
go find someone else that's interesting that's more receptive. Eventually
you'll make friends and build up your social skills.

Build a support network from friends and family that you know love you and
care for you. They are there even if it's a small group of people. Tell them
what you're trying to do and talk to them. They may not have good advice but
they'll listen and be supportive.

There's a lot of other good advice here, but these are just some of the things
that I tell my brother who is almost twenty.

------
Jd
I think if you can't find a job and you are aspiring to have other skills but
don't have them yet your best bet is a focused job with manual labor as the
core component. You might think I'm joking, but manual labor has the benefit
of focusing the mind, and there are numerous labor intensive jobs that pay
very very well.

Here are three you might consider: working on a fishing boat / working on a
oil rig / joining the US Armed Forces.

The first two of those are very good money with a bit of risk with not a
particularly long time commitment. After you are out of your financial hole
you can transition to doing something else. The Armed Forces is not a bad
option if you are looking for something that could be a longer term option for
you and potentially include training in skills you are interested in.

Also, in general, getting jobs is first and foremost about confidence. I
suspect you don't have a lot, so going out there and doing something where you
can build confidence (my suggestion not knowing you is through a body focused
manual labor activity, but that may not be the best), and then use that
confidence to build skills, and then go out and get a job that makes use of
those skills. That's a general strategy that can carry you for your whole
life, the trick is to avoid getting stuck in a depressive cycle (which seems
like where you are now).

Anyways, good luck mate, wish you the best!

------
kvad
Your are not the only one, this game was rigged from the start. At 24 years
old I tried to started my own businesses to employ my friends who did not have
the same opportunities. My business failed, do to an employe error. The police
and the EPA went after me like it was the BP oil spill. I'll be paying the IRS
or the Franchise tax board 40% of what I make for the rest of my life. Cops
and robbers have teamed up and the average American citizen is caught in the
cross fire. Currently I am reduced to farm out my skills to international
corporations. I'm considered lucky to have a job working 12 hours a day.

I believe the tech workers should be moving towards private unions to get
standard wages and mentor programs. We need to move away from this dog eat dog
individualistic suppository programmer complex.

Most tech managers are just trying to suck the life out you to further promote
their career with zero consideration for you well being.

Of course you can go work for a Google or another large corporate outfit.
Remember that for every job we hold we are cutting an unknown number of
American jobs.

Food for thought, there is a special place in hell for the greedy and
traitorous. Personally I feel as a part of the high tech sector we are heading
in that direction. No one stands up for worker rights in high tech.

------
Kim_Bruning
Right, the economy sucks, there's no work, you're at the bottom of a hole, and
all the sides are steep, and you're worn out, in trouble, and it's all coming
at you at once. :-/ I have that sometimes. Maybe it's all coming down already,
but... it's probably not all going to come down at _exactly_ the same time;
there's some playroom to juggle with. Take things one at a time, first things
first. (And it goes without saying: Make sure you're healthy and sleeping and
eating as best you can) . And sometimes something _is_ going to fall over. And
sometimes you have to let it, no matter how it hurts, because it's more
important that as many of the other dominoes stay upright as possible. If they
do, you can probably salvage something or at least use them move on. At some
point you'll get a toehold, then a foothold, and you can start climbing out,
slowly - 2 steps up, one step down.

tl;dr. Don't overstress. Take problems one at a time. and grimace when some of
them asplode anyway.

ps. you're only 22. I know folks in their 40's who still struggle! (but
somehow they manage to be happy every day. <scratches head>) . I think you'll
figure it out. Either the road to traditional western success... or maybe
you'll find your own path. :-)

pps: {{hug}}

------
Edmond
I think you need to take a step back... you are only 22, trust me life is only
getting started and you most likely haven't faced your toughest moments yet.

In life it is important to have the right perspective as this shapes your
attitude and attitude is everything.

I am 32 now but in around 2001 I was about your age and I had an associate
degree(CS), but the job situation sucked. The unemployment rate back then was
much lower than it is today....perspective.

I think you need to consider taking any job until you can get on your feet.
When I was 22 I was working at a call center taking 50+ abusive phone calls
everyday, as I stated above I already had an associate degree...so again
adjust your attitude.

Lastly, you may have hung around HN long enough to get the vibe that college
isn't necessary, nothing could be farther from the truth.

Peter Thiel may tell kids already on their way to Harvard, Stanford et al to
drop out and start a company, that advice is the absolute worse advice for
99.9% of kids....again perspective shapes attitude and attitude determines
outcome... seriously figure out a way to enroll in college and get a
degree....

hope this helps.

founder @APPYnotebook (www.appynotebook.com)

------
ChuckMcM
Here is a random suggestion. Yakima has a number of Churches and one of the
types of people you can find at a Church are older people who are befuddled by
computers. You can also find people to talk about what is important in life
and what isn't. Not saying you should convert, just saying that its a place to
hear a point of view.

Offer to help people get their computers set up, or fixed up. Be
_scrupulously_ honest, do not lie and do not exaggerate and do not try to be
anything except helpful. That will get you money to eat and buy the basics.
You may still be homeless but you will start connecting with the community in
a helpful way.

Yakima does have some electronics stores (BestBuy and Radio Shack) and if I
were in your spot I would look to see if either of them needed technical help.
Its not that hard to learn how to pull apart, clean, and re-assemble a desktop
PC.

Don't give up, and each morning think of at least two things you can be
thankful for and hold onto them all day. Be open to opportunities that may
present themselves.

------
willurd
I don't have a degree and I consider myself pretty successful. I'm no
Zuckerberg but I haven't been unemployed since 18 (I'm 26). And, like others
who've posted, I have to beat recruiters off with a stick. There is a lot of
work out there if you have a good online presence.

Those are my credentials, now here's my advice: build a portfolio. And I don't
mean a portfolio site or physical portfolio per se (though that would be
best), I mean a body of work you've done that you can show off. All a degree
really is is a piece of paper that says "I know how to do all this stuff.
Contact these people and they'll vouch for me." Sure, some companies simply
won't hire people without a degree, but you don't want to work for them
anyway. Remember, you're smart, you're technically savvy, you're young, you're
ambitious. Companies want YOU. Now, all you have to do is PROVE to companies
that you can do the job. That's what a portfolio is for - it's actual,
physical (or virtual) examples of your work; it's evidence that you know what
you're doing. Make a blog and write some compelling articles. The blog,
design, and articles are all examples of what you can do. Are you a designer?
Make some icons, logos for companies that don't exist, or redesign an existing
popular website just because _you can do better_ or can offer a fresh outlook
on their design (here's a guy that did this to Facebook:
[http://www.behance.net/gallery/Facebook-New-Look-
Concept/650...](http://www.behance.net/gallery/Facebook-New-Look-
Concept/6504647)). Are you a developer? Find an interesting open source
project (or 5), learn it, and start fixing bugs and adding features right
away. Maybe even start your own open source project (you have a GitHub
account, right?!). Remember, your portfolio doesn't have to contain work
you've been paid for; it can be filled with things you did on your own simply
because _you love what you do_. My portfolio is what got me hired when I first
started out (it also pays to be confident and have some good
interviewing/interpersonal skills; confidence is really all about perspective,
though, and is, if you lack it, something you can achieve through things like
reframing: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_reframing>,
<http://changingminds.org/techniques/general/reframing.htm>).

A few more things:

1\. Companies aren't charities (even many charities aren't charities when it
comes to hiring). They aren't there to hand out jobs to people just because
those people need a job. They hire people because they have a void and believe
that person can fill it. It is necessarily a mutually beneficial arrangement.
You have to show companies that you are the person that can fill whatever
voids they have.

2\. If you don't have a resume, make one! Then put it online, on every site
you can think of (LinkedIn, careerbuilder.com, monster.com, etc). If you
contact me (my email is on my HN profile) I'll help you with your resume!

3\. Many companies put in job descriptions that they _require_ a 2 or 4 year
degree. Sometimes this isn't really the case and, if you can demonstrate that
you are the right person for the job, they will hire you anyway. This is what
happened to me for my first job (it was a Fortune 500 company, so even they'll
hire people without degrees sometimes!). So respond to every job description
that looks interesting to you!

4\. When you get an interview, and I know you will, do some research on the
company before hand. Look at their website, check out what their doing, learn
about their business domain, etc. If you're a web designer and/or web
developer, think about ways you can improve their website and let them know
you "had some ideas" while you were checking it out (don't make it seem like
you didn't like their site, even if you didn't; be diplomatic about it).

5\. I know I said I have to beat recruiters off with a stick; I don't actually
beat them. Pro-tip #5: Don't burn bridges with recruiters. I have turned down
more recruiters than I can count while at my current job because I'm not
looking for work, but I always a) respond to them quickly, b) thank them for
taking the time to contact me, c) thank them for considering me for whatever
jobs they have available, d) let them know why I'm not available, and e) let
them know that I'll keep an eye out for them if someone I know that fits one
of their job descriptions is looking for work (and I mean it; I have forwarded
several friends to recruiters). Sometimes I'll even talk to recruiters on the
phone so they can get to know me (I always tell them up front that I'm not
looking for work, but sometimes they want to talk anyway). Because of this, I
have a huge list of people I can contact that might be able to help me should
I find myself out of work.

I'm sure other people will have other perspectives and experiences. I hope
this or something else on this page helps you!

EDIT: Also, when you're not spending time working on your resume, contacting
companies and recruiters, committing to open source projects, redesigning
popular websites, making logos for non-existent companies, or otherwise
beefing up your portfolio, spend time making yourself better (for free!):
<https://www.coursera.org/>, <https://www.edx.org/>, <http://ocw.mit.edu/>,
<https://www.canvas.net/>, <https://www.udacity.com/>,
<http://webcast.berkeley.edu/>, <http://www.academicearth.org/>,
<http://ocw.tufts.edu/CourseList>, <http://www.open.edu/openlearn/tags>,
<http://www.cs.washington.edu/education/courses/>, <http://ocw.nd.edu/>,
<http://law.duke.edu/webcast/>, <http://oyc.yale.edu/>. There isn't much room
for anything else if you're serious about this.

EDIT 2: Added udacity (thanks philwebster!)

~~~
elssar
I second both Udacity, and applying to every job where the description seems
to fit you.

I was in a similar situation just a week and a half ago - almost 25, took 6
years for a 4 year degree(something you can't do in India, looks really really
bad on the resume) and had no experience other than a failed stint as a
freelance web developer and a useless 3.5 month stint at a company where I did
nothing.

So, till last Sunday, I had pretty much 0 value in the job market. I had a
Github account and some small projects on it, but nothing more than decent and
I kept thinking I'll apply for this awesome position when I finish that
amazing project. And I would've kept doing that for a long long time, but
there was a thing came up where I had to travel to another city and I figured
since I was going there, might as well apply to a few positions in companies
based there. So early Sunday morning(2am ish) I send out a bunch of
applications. By Wednesday I had a new job with payed more than what most of
the guys I went to college with earn(in some cases it might be as much as 2x),
had a standing job offer from another place for when I leave the job I hadn't
even started yet, one co-founder pushing me to come over for an interview and
offered to better what ever I'd make at the other place, plus 3 other
inquiries.

And all that with a few half decent projects on github and a passionate(I
think so) about me thing on the resume.

Granted that there are a lot more better programmers available in the US than
there are here in India(my boss was shocked by the level of most coders he
interviewed), but still it seems doable - getting a job solely on coding
chops.

I'm not saying that if you start applying you'll get a job the next day or
even the next week or the next month. I'll be the first one to admit that I
got really lucky with the timing(a lot of start ups had put up wanted posts at
that time) and with the apparent lack to good programmers who want to work at
start ups in India. But unless you apply, you don't find out whether or not
you could've got that position you liked.

So code some stuff up, put it online and start applying.

~~~
willurd
"But unless you apply, you don't find out whether or not you could've got that
position you liked.

So code some stuff up, put it online and start applying."

Nicely said!

------
hello_newman
Although I cannot say I hav been in the same situation as you, I can empathize
and offer my sincerest sympathies for your struggle. I noticed you want to be
a programmer, there are m any options.

Check out appacademy.io. They are a 10 week programming bootcamp learning
ruby, rails, JavaScript and HTML5. Because you already have programming
experience, you are above the rest and may have a better chance getting in.
It's completely free to attend and you only have to pay if you get a job after
the program.

It's run by a group of hackers, and you can email Ned Ruggeri and apply once
you check out the site. They have classes in San Francisco and NYC.

I hope everything works out for you man. Not to sound too cliche, but what I
have found is it truly is the darkest before the dawn. I attended college (I'm
21), got tired of it, started a couple businesses but I wanted to do more. I
applied to Dev Bootcamp and got in, and I will be there in April. Keep your
head up and never stop hustling to get what YOU want.

Best of luck.

~~~
ruswick
Does Appacademy offer housing? If not, attending the program would be near
impossible, as rents in NYC and SF are exorbitant, and would necessitate
working another part-time job just for the luxury of sharing a room with
several other people.

~~~
hello_newman
They seem to help students with housing in terms of hooking them up with
hacker houses, hostel locations etc. I could be wrong, but that was the info I
got when I was talking with them. I know one student even slept on a couch in
App Academy when he was attending.

------
rayiner
Why do you think you're going to find a job there? My wife used to teach in
eastern Washington, there is nothing there.

You don't need money to get a degree. That's the point of student loans. Are
you in-state in Washington? If you can take the SAT's you should be able to
get into a decent, cheap state school. You can get a fee waiver for that, btw.

------
pyrocat
These people telling you to move to California aren't necessarily giving the
best advice. Seattle is like San Francisco with slightly less start-ups and
1/3rd the cost of living. Seattle also has Microsoft and a wide variety of
businesses that support Microsoft. It also has a great public transit system
that means you can live in one of the cheaper areas around Seattle (Wedgewood,
Northgate, Central District, Georgetown) and bus to the city easily for work.
There are lots of jobs for tech savvy people, so check
<http://seattle.craigslist.org/> early and often. You can catch a Greyhound
from Yakima to Seattle for $18 if you order online early enough. If you can
get a loan from your parents or someone, just enough to cover rent for 3
months, you could find a place to live in Seattle and (hopefully!) find a job
in that time.

~~~
ojbyrne
1/3 the cost of living is a bit of an exaggeration. The census bureau (here:
[http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0728.p...](http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0728.pdf))
says San Francisco has an index of 164 compared to Seattle's 121.4. Perhaps
you meant 1/3 less, which is almost right.

------
ndesaulniers
Don't give up! There will always be hope until you yourself abandon it. Don't
ever be ashamed about not having a degree; I'm ashamed that I've learned more
about programming from a few good books than my overpriced education! You may
not think that you have much, but you've already been given everything you
need to succeed in life. Don't be ashamed of what you don't know, be eager to
learn it. Don't expect anyone but you to change your situation. The first job
in a desired field is always the hardest to get because of little to no
experience. Don't be afraid to try something in a similar field than the one
you intended; you may find you like it better, or it may give you the
experience to get your foot in the door in the intended field. Thank you for
posting this, and I'll pray that you find a way out of this. You can do it!

------
dreyfiz
There are lots of jobs out there that will pay you to relocate. Consider
making this a focus of your job search.

------
taopao
GTFO of Yakima!

~~~
CyberFonic
Sounds like you're not going to find fame and fortune in Yakima. You'll have
to move on. So to get you started, how about:

You list your tangible skills here and ask for work - anywhere but Yakima. I
hear that there are some great startups in Chicago, Detroit, etc - much lower
cost of living than CA or NY. BTW where did you move from? Is it an option to
return there??

~~~
dubfan
He doesn't need to go all the way to the Midwest. Seattle and Portland are
much closer and have plenty of cheap living arrangements. He might be in a
far-flung suburb with an unfashionable address, or live in an area considered
"dangerous" by locals (the "bad" parts of Seattle and Portland are _nothing_
compared to those in Chicago and Detroit), but it beats sitting around in
Yakima with no prospects.

~~~
nonamegiven
Seattle is the most beautiful place I've ever lived (and I've lived in
Hawaii). Been through Portland, it's nice too.

I've heard Chattanooga is an option for tech jobs, and Tennessee is supposed
to be pretty. Cost of living should be relatively low, if you can get there.
Once you get there, or anywhere, do what you would do anywhere: find anyjob
and work on moving up from there.

Consider local government for work.

------
caphill
Why can't you move to Seattle?

I moved into one of those apodment places once I got here during the summer.
It's a dorm style place that comes w/ furniture,internet,electricity,heat,and
water for like $700.

I then emailed a bunch of companies in the area and landed a junior dev job.
The pay is low but I am learning a lot.

------
jacoblyles
North Dakota has a severe labor shortage. There are reports of salaries over
$100k for semi-skilled labor.

------
ChuckMcM
Another choice is the Perry Technical Institute is in Yakima, talk to them
about their 12 month program on Welding. Its not as "tech" as web site design
but if you get through the program you can hitch hike over to North Dakota and
the Gas fields there and find lots of work. Looking at their course catalog it
looks like its about $16,000 total (four quarters at about $4,000 each), You
can do that in four years with no loans if you can scrape together enough for
one quarter every 9 months.

Alternatively they have a machine shop program which could exploit your
programming skills.

I only mention it because young people often forget that there is a lot of
need for people in these jobs which currently are dominated by older men
preparing to retire.

------
keammo1
I was in almost the exact same situation at 23. Broke, unemployed, car
repossessed, eviction notice for my apartment and living in a town with no
real jobs to be had. I was tech savvy and a beginner programmer, but no real
job experience or degree. I'm doing great now at 29. You can definitely turn
things around. Seems like most of the important advice has already been
dispensed here. Only thing I will add: I was extremely lucky to have friends
in NYC who let me crash while I looked for work. Do you have any friends that
live in a cities where there are jobs and good public transport? Would they
let you crash for a while? Maybe offer to do their dishes and cook them meals
while you're there. If you have such an opportunity, definitely seize it.

------
azzkicker
Its all about HOPE, man! Its the drug that you need right now. Do whatever you
need to do to plant as many seeds of hope that you can. You need to slowly
work out the things in life that are killing your hope. Building positive
friendships will help, too. You have time to build a good life for yourself.

Just look at all the comments and suggestions all these people have posted. If
you need help, just ask for it. But you will need to work on changing things
that you can and they may be hard. Life can get you down. Even in the darkness
of days, there are always bright sunny days ahead of you!

Serenity Prayer: God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot
change, the courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the
difference.

------
chrisgoodrich
First of all, you have a bright future. Don't sell yourself short or give up.
Failure is the key to success.

Contrary to what many commenters have indicated, don't get a job if you can
avoid it. If you can get by without a job, put every last waking moment into
your passion.

1) If you want to be a programmer, build something innovative and cool and
tell the world about it. If nobody cares, try something else. Build a
portfolio of things you've done that compensates for not having a degree.

2) Network. Meet people, talk to people and get involved. Help others and
others will help on your projects. Network locally as well as with others in
areas you want to live.

If you pour everything into your passion, you'll get better at what you do and
everything will fall into place.

------
yarou
These material things don't matter in the long run. You've identified your
passion; all that's left is to pursue it. But you need to identify what about
your personality led you into this situation. You always have a choice,
regardless of external circumstances.

------
bdcravens
Freelance. Join enough online meetups, Linked In lists, etc. Start a website
where you blog about topics you're an expert in. (I'd lean more heavy on the
programming thing than the audio stuff - not as fun, but you can program from
anywhere)

Or: do some overseas mission stuff. I don't mean church stuff, where you pay
to go, and are in an isolated bubble of service. No, I mean give up your life,
go somewhere for a year or two. You can live on dollars a day (and still live
better than the natives), and I think it will greatly benefit your worldview.

Join the military. Regardless of the politics of it, I think most will agree
it's an opportunity to learn, grow, and get away.

------
ovidius
It helps to have specific goals. "To just be ok for once" sounds nice, but
what exactly does that mean to you? It's much easier to make a plan for
yourself when you have specific goals.

You might try thinking out -- and writing down -- specifically what sort of
circumstances you think would help you to feel "ok." An apartment? A steady,
stable job? A car? A group of reliable friends? You don't need a perfect
answer, just try to flesh out some basic details.

Once you know where you want to be in life, you can start taking determined
action to change your current circumstances. Where do you want to be ten years
from today? Five years? Try to answer those questions, then work back to
today, determining the requirements at each step.

So, if you have as your goal getting a job at $50k per year working as a web
developer at a small to medium sized company, starting x years from today,
then your requirements might be:

Living in a city with sufficient job opportunities in the IT industry;
specific programming skills; interpersonal skills for working in an office
environment; personal and professional references; a resume; some relevant
work experience; basic interviewing skills; a permanent address; reliable
transportation; food in your stomach; some reasonable clothes; and a few
friends and a healthy way to relax during your downtime.

Take each of those criteria, compare to where you are now, figure out
specifically what you can do to improve your circumstances, and take action!

Having it all written out can work wonders for your motivation and ability to
stay on track. You can also include some goalposts in your plan with specific
timeframes so that you can periodically remind yourself that you're making
progress -- that can really help you make it through when things get
difficult, which they sometimes will.

It sounds like right now you need to get traction and put some money in your
pocket, and some more in the bank. That means you'll want to get your expenses
down as low as possible and save as much of your income as you can. You may
have to work some unpleasant jobs to get yourself started, but remember that
they're not permanent, and stay focused on your goals.

I hope this was of some use for you. Good luck!

------
molesy
Central's a good school. Good enough at least. Get any job you can in
Ellensburg and find roommates. Apply, do things around campus, do anything you
can to meet people and get out there. It _does not_ matter if you actually get
in or take classes, but it'll help to try.

Seriously you're less then 40 miles away from tons of people going through the
same thing trying to get themselves together. Even if you end up doing
something completely different, it's a place to start and it's just a
hitchhike with a bunch of people you'll probably want to meet anyways away.

------
RougeFemme
It sounds like you are also depressed, which is not all surprising, given your
situation. While you are following through on the work/training/career
suggestions posted here, also try to hook up with some free counseling
resources. If there aren't any readily available in Yakima (which is likely)
see what's available online. The suggestions here are great and just starting
on some of those may help peel away the depression, but just in case, reach
out to other resources focused on emotional well-being, in addition to
networking, training, etc.

------
mbillie1
I'm not sure how realistic it is (I know nothing whatsoever about WA), but
there are lots of tech meetups happening all over the country. Weekly groups
for various languages, frameworks, etc. That can be a really good place to
meet people and network. You probably don't want to show up and ask for a job,
but it's a great way to bounce ideas off of similarly-minded people, make
friends, learn new things or hone your skills, etc.

I also think getting a job - any job, McDonalds, Walmart, whatever - is an
important (even if it's miserable) step, because it's SO MUCH EASIER to get a
job when you already have one. Even if it takes several bounces up the ladder,
it's very difficult to go from being unemployed to being employed in a good
job in the field you're interested in. I've got no degree and no have an
amazing job working as a developer for one of the most difficult-to-get-hired-
at places in tech. I worked (I will omit the time from 17 years old to 27
years old, because I honestly can't remember all of the jobs I had in that
period, but the last year or so I was unemployed) for an office furniture
dealership (through a temp agency at first), then got a tech-support job for a
small software company, worked hard enough to get a little more responsibility
and learned some networking/sysadmin-type stuff, learned some sql, hacked
around with Python and Ruby, and got a chance to be a developer. Never looked
back. I'm 30, for reference, and I've also been homeless and had to sleep on
friends' couches, lived paycheck-to-paycheck or sold belongings on craigslist
to pay the rent at times, etc. Hang in there. It's hard to hear, but once
things work out and you "get there", you tend not to give a fuck about the
path it took to get there.

See if you can get to a tech meetup, or just hang out in IRC, post on tech
forums, etc. Get the best job you can, but get any job before no job.
Sometimes temp agencies can be a really good way to start - I've worked for
several. They're usually indoor, business-casual, 9 to 5 office jobs. Don't
expect it to be interesting, of course, but some of these places will get you
_a_ job right away as long as you're reasonably polite/presentable and can
type fast, and it'll probably be a little bit better than the bottom-end of
the retail/fast-food spectrum in terms of pay.

Like zaphar said: Good luck and don't give up.

------
andyjbas
Dude go get some work. If you are tech savvy then put yourself out there. I
have less than a year of programming experience and I turn down more work than
I take on. I don't even market myself beyond an odesk profile and a
blog/resume. It is really that easy, but if you just sit there and feel sorry
for yourself, you'll be in the same spot in a year. Go send quotes for 20
feelance gigs in the next week. Work for 15/hr if you have to... in a few
months that will be 50/hr and more work than you can handle.

------
bwb
Hey, why don't you hit us up? We hire remote and we have entry level jobs
doing tech support in hosting, and plenty of room to move around and better
yourself too: <http://www.site5.com/about/careers/>

ben@site5.com Thanks, Ben

PS, I'd be happy to tell you more about Australia as I'm here now on a 1 year
visa. And just finished a 6 month trip through Argentina and South America if
you are thinking seriously of something like that.

------
calinet6
Do whatever you can to move. That's the only thing that will improve your
condition, I think. Just get out, go somewhere, anywhere--Portland, Seattle,
anywhere with a hot tech scene. You'll be able to find something to do in a
city, just get out of Yakima.

Go to any city you have a friend willing to take you in. Jump start from
there.

Lastly, it will get better. Life can be hard sometimes, but you can always
start over. I promise it will get better for you.

------
martinrame
One strategy is contacting english teaching academies in South America (there
are thousands) and go to live there (of course, you'll need some money to
afford a couple of renting months), that kind of work will allow you to make a
living without taking all your day. The next step is to join a public
university, remember in some countries of South America there are great free
public universities that allow foreigners.

~~~
GFischer
At least in my country, universities have no montly cost, but:

1) Spanish only 2) you need money for textbooks and such 3) really bad hours
for those who need to work

Rent varies by country, but you'll find that an US equivalent is shockingly
expensive - unless you think that you can live by without a fridge or other
essentials (remember, in most of Latin America, rent only includes the four
walls and a roof, forget about utilities, appliances, etc, unless you
explicitly pay for those).

I've found that culture shock means that only people that are NOT in the
situation this person is in are able to adapt to the local conditions.

My mother moved back from Canada to Uruguay, and she's shocked by the cultural
differences (she lived abroad for 20 years). You won't believe how many things
you take for granted that simply don't exist in a 3rd world country.

------
nbouscal
If moving to Spokane is an option, let me know and I can see if I can set you
up with some connections.

------
PixelPusher
Just get really good at something. If you're already tech savvy, be great at
developing software that delivers value to businesses.

I'm personally a high school drop out and work as a developer in an up and
coming startup. Prove that you're a good developer and you don't need a
degree.

------
beatpanda
I know a job you can get. Get yourself to Sacramento, California and look up
the Fund for Public Interest Research. If you can be personable and articulate
they'll hire you. You can make decent money (enough to live on) and learn some
sales skills while you're at it.

~~~
rkuykendall-com
Sacramento is also a great place to get some tech connections. The city itself
has a great tech community, and you're only ~1.5h from San Francisco.

------
enemieslist
I just wrote a book about this, called "Break Free of Your Rut." it's based
off my own experience being deep in there, and getting out.

It's 2.99 on Kindle, but send me an email and I'll send you a free pdf copy.
dan@enemieslist.net is my email.

It sucks, but it gets better.

------
saiko-chriskun
do you have a resume/github/anything to look at?

------
bsilvereagle
I've never been in this situation. However, I've speculated about it quite a
bit.

Embrace this. You'll (ideally) never be here again.

Is there somewhere you've always wanted to live? Move there. I'm sure there's
an airbnb for ridesharing to get there. If not, start building it.

Once you're there you need to find work. Working fast food? That's cash.
That's not equity somewhere, that's immediate rent paying and food buying
cash. You want this.

When you're not flipping burgers, try and find work that is at your technical
level. Startups, firms, etc. You probably won't find any at the get go. That's
fine. Put an hour a day into this search. The rest of it? Start fleshing out
stuff on Github.

Don't necessarily take the first job that comes up; flipping burgers and
waiting for the right job is better than a sucky job.

Final step, start living life.

Like I said, I've never been in the situation, but that's the advice I would
give myself.

Good luck.

------
slajax
Convert that angst to motivation and create something. Every day take a step
towards making that thing better. Before you know it doors will start opening.
Most importantly, never give up.

------
greyhat
I emailed you some thoughts! (coming from brianfarr@gmail.com )

------
cnp
Not to sound cynical, but you live two hours from SEATTLE. If you have skills,
you WILL find work here, particularly tech work. End of story!

------
agentultra
Scary.

I was literally where you are now when I was 22. I moved to the big city,
homeless, scraped together cash working retail to put myself through one of
those seedy, "recording arts" programs. Then I took out some pretty big loans
to start my record label and begin living the dream. Boy was I out of touch
because it didn't take long for that dream to come crashing down. Facing
reality was one of the hardest things I had to do.

First, obligatory advice that ironically won't make sense until you're older
and have your own story to tell: you're young and you'll get through this and
you'll get old and have your own story to tell. Don't sweat it too much.

It took me almost nine years to pay off all the debt I had accumulated during
that hard time. It was horrible at first. However you can beat it if you put
your mind to it.

My life started turning around when I was living in a tiny room in the
basement of a large boarding house in the worst part of the city. Here's how I
did it:

1\. I created a cash flow spreadsheet and budget. I stuck to it. The nice
thing about having the cash flow though was that I could see what my finances
would look like in the future. This helped me to plan things and having that
really put my mind at ease because I could visualize the light at the end of
the tunnel. It would take me a while but I eventually added an entertainment
expense.

2\. I don't recommend this long-term but when things got thin I learned how to
make decent food on the cheap: lots of rice, bulk dried beans, and as much
fresh produce as I could afford. I'd make a tonne of stir-fry and eat that
throughout the week. It's important to eat well so the first thing I tried to
expand was my food budget... this doesn't include eating out.

3\. Snowball those debt payments. Pay the minimum on everything except the
most important one. Put everything you can after you're most basic needs are
met and the minimums are all paid out. Once that one is paid off, keep going.
Pick the next highest one and don't shirk and think you have more money to
start going out or something. Just make the payments bigger on the next one...
they snowball into one another. After you've knocked a couple of the big ones
out then start giving yourself a small weekly budget to go out (and learn to
make that small budget stretch... I liked going to bars with friends and we
found all of the places that had $2 beer nights and went out on those nights).

3\. The best thing that happened to me was finding a job through a friend at a
local hosting company making websites. It wasn't anything glamorous but it was
my first salaried job and I did everything I could to land it: I brushed up on
HTML, CSS, Perl, PHP... I made a rather simple little blog script that I could
show them before I went into that interview. I spent as much time as I could
online and at the library doing research and taking notes. I think it helped
because I got that job and I hadn't done any web programming for a few years
at that point.

4\. I didn't stop pushing myself. I got better at what I did for a living a
little bit each day. I tried learning one new thing each week. And after a
couple of years I started to get calls from recruiters and have moved up from
there.

(It turns out I love CS and probably should have gone to university instead of
trying to be a rock star, but you live and learn)

I'm not sure if any of this will work for you but if there's anything I hope
you will take away from this comment it's knowing that there's still plenty of
time to work your way out of your situation and get to where you want to be.
Don't spend time reading about the over-achievers who've been handed the right
opportunities at the right time... and don't listen to the claim that it was
because of their drive, determination, and all that. Just use your hustle and
keep at it. Most of all, smile once in a while and remember that it's just
life. It happens to all of us.

------
alexsilver
Please come back in a few months and update us on your progress, we're anxious
to see how for you've gotten. Good luck!

------
xijuan
I don't have time to leave a long comment right now. If you need someone to
talk to, add me on gtalk.

------
renod
Just share more about yourself. People will be able to help you.

------
hedgehog
What's your skillset?

------
vincentbarr
Don't give up.

------
L0j1k
That's what your 20s are for. Learn to live off next to nothing and hit the
road. The people you meet, the experiences you have, the skills you learn,
will feed you and your family for the rest of your life. Take it from someone
who was in your position exactly...

------
IheartApplesDix
Lower your standards and get a job.

------
GoranM
You're not alone in being alone, and there are people worse off, I assure you.

------
vonsydov
start a company

~~~
artursapek
_... no money,..._

~~~
damm
you don't need money to start a company. However he may lack credit

~~~
artursapek
From my experience incorporating can cost about half a grand.

------
bquarant
Start turkin'

~~~
Jach
Patient (and not unnaturally unlucky) use of <http://satoshidice.com/> is
probably more efficient.

