
Nintendo Switch Teardown - fictivmade
https://www.fictiv.com/blog/posts/nintendo-switch-teardown
======
eludwig
Just a few quick comments on the Switch after a day of use.

First, a quick digression, Nintendo seems to have gauged the launch demand
pretty well. There are some other comments here regarding Target morning
waits. I was 2nd on line at 6:40am in a northern NJ Target. The guy in front
of me had slept in his car (!), but he seemed to be the only one that did. By
7:45 the line was 20ish people. Our Target had 25 consoles. So everyone that
got there by 8 (opening time) got one. Nice.

The hardware seems really good. I was surprised at how nice it all fit
together (nice, solid clicks) for a product that costs half as much as an
iPad! It's obviously still a "toy," but I don't mean that in a bad way. The
finish is below typical Apple HW standards for sure, but I think that's to be
expected at $299. It feels rugged enough to take with you, although as some
said, a screen protector might be nice for extended away play.

To me, the nicest, most thoughtful thing about the HW of this gen of tech
products is (believe it or not) USB C! Can I please shout out my love for this
freaking connector!! GO USBC! Seriously, I didn’t realize how much subliminal
psychic damage non-symmetrical USB plugs have done to me. This connector is so
great. You no longer feel that weird little moment of anxiety where you know
it will take you an extra second to look inside the damn connector and re-
orient the blasted plug 3 times. If you are an old man like me (58), you will
probably need to go find a pair of reading glasses, adding insult to injury.

The new Zelda is breathtaking, but you can tell that it wasn't designed for
the small screen. It looks really, really great on my OLED 1080p TV, where I
think it is meant to be played. Little things like HUD element size are too
small for my eyes on the little screen. The FOV is not quite right for the
small screen either. Not deal killers, but also things that could be fixed in
a patch.

The Pro controller is a very nice "on the couch" controller. Very solid. No
lag time. The analog sticks are fine, although I much prefer a mouse for
camera controls, but that is my age talking.

I am totally loving this little thing. It's well put together, the only game I
care about is Zelda, so the software is great. I think Nintendo has a
potential home run here.

~~~
Magnets
How is selling out by 9AM considered 'gauging the demand well'? What about all
of the people who go at lunch of after work?

I'm pretty sure they always like to sell out as a marketing ploy anyway

~~~
Klathmon
Well if you plan to sell out you don't waste any money on extra product you
won't sell.

Overproducing just throws money away, means you need to push back your launch
date longer, or build much more manufacturing than you'll ever need again.

~~~
poppysan
But grossly under-producing infuriates people who won't be able to purchase
the product for months due to a silly marketing ploy. I still cannot buy the
Nintendo classic in-store, and it came out 4th quarter 2016.

~~~
wernercd
So... how do YOU plan on correctly predicting how popular or unpopular
something is?

Isn't this one of the major pain points for many small companies that put
stuff up? Correctly gauging 1) how much it costs to mass produce something and
2) how many they actually will sell?

If you are in charge of Nintendo... and you put something out like the Wii,
Nintendo Class, etc... how do you expect to get the amount sold right on the
first shot?

In my opinion? It's a damn hard problem... it only takes a little bit of
internet power - everyone going ape shit over something inconsequential - and
BAM what you expected to sell 1 million units is now out of stock and you have
millions of people mad.

Now that millions of people want it... will they still want it in 6 months
when you ramp up production or is the fad over?

People make it seem like this is an easy question to answer... where is the
millions your willing to put on the line for similar questions...

~~~
aanm1988
> So... how do YOU plan on correctly predicting how popular or unpopular
> something is?

I'd pull numbers out of thin air.

Isn't this one of the major pain points for many small companies that put
stuff up? Correctly gauging 1) how much it costs to mass produce something and
2) how many they actually will sell?

Sure.

> If you are in charge of Nintendo... and you put something out like the Wii,
> Nintendo Class, etc... how do you expect to get the amount sold right on the
> first shot?

by using some of the hundreds of millions in profits to do some fucking
research. This isn't a small company.

------
overcast
The dock is pretty underwhelming from what I've seen. There is no protection
for the screen, sliding in between two pieces of plastic. Pretty cheap, for a
premium priced, and well engineered hybrid device, that will be taken in and
out.

Semi-relevant. Breath of Wild looks like such a fantastic game, but it's
completely ridiculous that the performance is often times WORSE in the docked
mode. I'm hoping this is just crappy porting issues, and can be patched. But
running only 900p, and getting 20fps shouldn't be tolerated.

~~~
aaron-lebo
Yes, the docked mode is grating at times. You've got these great mechanics and
beautiful world but constant input lag. Very frustrating. I'd prefer to be
able to sit down and play on a TV at a higher resolution, but it's a worse
experience. It effectively makes it a mobile game.

It's 2017! 1080p or 60fps should be the minimum. To be fair that's not doable
at $300 on a mobile gpu, but as a console that's rough.

re: screen + dock = scratches:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/nintendo/comments/5xc6gw/using_the_...](https://www.reddit.com/r/nintendo/comments/5xc6gw/using_the_switch_dock_may_scratch_the_screen/)

Some really odd design choices. v2 should be nice, though.

~~~
knodi123
> v2 should be nice

Has there ever been a v2 of a nintendo console?

~~~
satysin
Depends how you define v2. If you define it as a revision to the original
version then -

The DSi was an upgrade to the DS but not a whole new console generation.

The Wii Mini was a downgrade (seriously) to the Wii to make it
cheaper/smaller.

The New 3DS was an upgrade to the 3DS similar to the DS->DSi upgrade.

Plus all of the Gameboy and Gameboy Advance models which you could argue were
often more revisions with some new features but still compatible than a
totally new product.

Such as the Gameboy SP and then Micro which were totally new designs for the
Gameboy Advance with a better screen but otherwise the same console.

~~~
knodi123
okay, I never went to the nintendo portables, so I was shockingly oblivious
about these. I define v2 as both "set of games you can play on it is identical
to the first one", and "not a retro notalgia remake". But even by that
standard, wikipedia tells me you gave a lot of good examples. I can only hope
the switch makes the list, because I'm not interested in spending significant
game time with a handheld tablet, but I also need enough distance to flirt
with their limitations.

------
nstart
Just got mine. Charged and used. This thing is such a joy to use. I'll
probably play with it more in mobile mode. It feels good to hold it. And yes
it's underpowered on the spec sheet but at the same time, it works really
well. And I'm having a lot of fun with it so for me that's the main thing
really :D.

~~~
Panoramix
I don't understand the negativity based on technical performance. The thing is
supposed to be fun to play, not bring you closer to the limits of what modern
technology can achieve. Nintendo has some extremely fun games that I'd rather
play very much before an extremely high performance super high HD game that
ultimately falls flat.

~~~
cmrdporcupine
Much of the negativity is related to the fact that the launch game itself does
not play well when docked.

And this seems unjustifiable given how well the same chipset does in the
NVIDIA Shield, which is capable of driving 4k games just fine.

~~~
Panoramix
I was not aware of that. Which is strange since I read more than 10 reviews,
surely they would have noticed? is this your experience? All I heard was that
it runs smoother than in the Wii-U even though it is not optimized for the
Switch.

~~~
aaron-lebo
There's really no way that you wouldn't notice it and I've seen it mentioned
in every review.

~~~
Panoramix
I guess it's the way I understood it. "Drops frames occasionally when there
are a lot of elements moving on the screen" vs "plays poorly". Disappointing,
sure, but hardly a deal breaker. I guess I'll wait a bit and judge on my own.

~~~
rasz_pl
but its the second kind, Zelda drops to 20fps in empty static scenes.

~~~
nstart
true. And it's bad that it is THE launch game that suffers from that. It's
likely to be caused by a poor port. The original of the game I believe runs at
720p. Scaling it up to 900p (it doesn't even go up to 1080p) in docked mode is
probably causing it issues rather than the device actually having problems
working in docked mode. I feel pretty confident that patches and updates to
both the device and games should work these out :)

------
greggman
It's inexcusable that the controllers get jammed to the wrist straps so
easily. Google "stuck joy-con" and you'll find articles and videos about how
to un-stuck them if you've accidentally put them on backward. Why is it even
possible to put them on backward? Even when they're on forward it often's
often extremely hard to separate them. We had a switch party and pretty much
every single person put them on backward once and we get to get tiny
screwdrivers out to un-stick them

Nintendo even has a page up already that just says "send them back"

[https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/...](https://en-
americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/22528/p/897/c/715)

I suspect they'll end up releasing a new model of controller that doesn't have
these issues but it's really hard to believe this wasn't found during
development.

------
seanalltogether
Ifixit just posted their teardown as well.
[https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Nintendo+Switch+Teardown/782...](https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Nintendo+Switch+Teardown/78263)

~~~
lucb1e
I like Ifixit's a lot more than Fictiv's. It gets to the point with specs and
short annotations.

~~~
whineBuster
It's a more structured article, that's for sure. No unfunny comedy at ifixit!

------
samtoday
Wow, the Nintendo Switch has a fan? It is amazing how thermals are such a
limiting factor in today's devices. I remember that a browser dev increased
the Nexus 5's benchmark score drastically by placing it on a bag of ice.

~~~
ndesaulniers
> I remember that a browser dev increased the Nexus 5's benchmark score
> drastically by placing it on a bag of ice.

If the browser was stressing the system to the limits of the thermal envelope,
then by being able to dissapate heat faster, you can schedule more work to be
done delaying any kind of frequency governing.

~~~
funkedelic_bob
That's crazy. I wonder if I can increase my output from my laptop working in
front of an open freezer :P

~~~
kalleboo
You can use Intel's power gadget to see the status of your CPU's temperature,
power usage and clock frequency (i.e. if it's boosting, or if it's being
throttled) [https://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/intel-power-
gadget...](https://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/intel-power-gadget-20)

e.g., if I start an h264 encode, first my CPU boosts, reaching 3.3 GHz (it's a
2.7 GHz i7), but after a minute, it's dropped to 2.4 GHz due to the thermals.
Wouldn't surprise me if I stuck it in a freezer it would stay at a higher
frequency.

------
aaron-lebo
I showed up at Target at 4 am and was second in line. Some other poor soul had
been there since 11 and out of the 50 units available there were probably 10
people at opening. Not sure if that suggests demand isn't that great or what.

It's hard to figure out. Check out the unit next to the Wii U tablet and the
latter looks very much like a clunky cheap toy. Everything here seems well-
designed (don't scratch your screen on the dock though), the joycons are very
clever. I must admit tablet mode with them is just okay and they are
undersized in every way compared to other controllers, but snapped onto the
controller shell you forget it isn't just a regular controller. Very cool.

The hardware though? It makes me nervous. I get at $300 and what Nintendo was
going for you don't have much of an alternative. Maybe I'm spoiled but 900p
upscaled at 30 fps with drops when docked feels wrong in 2017. The game (BotW)
is beautiful and controls wonderfully but the lag is noticeable at times for
me and the lack of fluidity hurts the experience. Oddly enough playing at 720p
undocked isn't slow at all and on the small screen looks great. I kind of
drool at the thought of this upscaled to 4k at 60fps and that and it wouldn't
be hard on modern hardware. Maybe a remaster or emulator?

It very much feels like a mobile device you can dock versus a home console you
can take with you. Just not sure how much headroom is in the hardware to make
this last for three or four years without major compromises.

Does anyone else have an impression?

~~~
ThatPlayer
I scoped out my local Target at 1 am and there were 5 people in line and maybe
a few more waiting in cars. Came back at 7:30am before the 8am opening and got
a voucher for about 40 out of 60 Switches. I think it could just be a smaller
thing because most people expect the midnight launches, and people have work
at 8am. The midnight launch at my local Fry's sold out of their 90 Switches.
Or maybe it is your location as I am in Los Angeles County.

>It very much feels like a mobile device you can dock versus a home console
you can take with you.

I definitely agree that it feels like a 3DS successor rather than a Wii U
successor. That wouldn't surprise me if you consider how well the 3DS does
compared to the Wii U. I'm playing the Zelda on the portable more than on the
TV.

>Just not sure how much headroom is in the hardware to make this last for
three or four years without major compromises.

If you look at the 3DS which still has most games running on the same hardware
from 2011, I can see the Switch lasting three years without requiring a
refresh. Maybe a small one like the New 3DS is to the 3DS.

~~~
b3b0p
The difference between the New 3DS and the original 3DS is actually quite
substantially technically.

New 3DS:

* ARM11 MPCore 4x @ 268MHz

* 4x VFPv2 Co-Processor

* 256MB FCRAM

* 10MB VRAM

* Dedicated Hardware Video Decoder

(* It also can play SNES Virtual Console games and can also play Xenoblade
Chronicles for New 3DS)

(* The menu screen is also substantially faster)

3DS:

* ARM11 MPCore 2x @ 268MHz

* 2x VFPv2 Co-Processor

* 128MB FCRAM

* 6MB VRAM

------
sergiotapia
I'm in love with the Switch! Form factor on point that feels like the
culmination of experiments coming from 3DS, Wii U and Wii. My son has been
playing the new Zelda non-stop, it's that fun and deep.

It's a much harder Zelda game, feels somewhat like Dark Souls in the combat
department. I died at least 5 times an hour due to overwhelming enemies. It's
a blast!

One thing I love about the Switch is that even if my controllers get busted I
can just buy another pair of joycons. With the Wii U it was really stressful
to remind the kids to be careful because you have to send in the gamepad for
repairs.

------
Shivetya
Interesting note, apparently they materials and such used to create this
device do not work well with adhesives used by a very popular skinning
company, they posted their results on reddit
[https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/5xc5si/warn...](https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/5xc5si/warning_do_not_skin_your_nintendo_switch/)

------
kbumsik
It's a bit shame that there is no chip part information. I am particularly
wondering which microcontroller they use for the remote controllers. I will
wait for iFixit's teardown review.

~~~
creativetaboo
They referenced the China leak which has all that information already:
[http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2017/02/nintendo_switch_tea...](http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2017/02/nintendo_switch_teardown_images_pop_up_online)

~~~
kbumsik
Thanks for the link. But nVida SoC is too obvious and I am not interested in
it. I am waiting for a much more professional teardown review, inclding
information of every parts, like this:
[https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Oculus+Rift+CV1+Teardown/606...](https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Oculus+Rift+CV1+Teardown/60612#s126619)

~~~
funkedelic_bob
I think they've posted it.

------
Animats
What's the connector and interface for the side units? They slide on and
latch, so no common connector will work.

~~~
scott_karana
I think they're all Bluetooth, and the slide/latching is purely for human
interface, not digital. :)

~~~
Animats
The side units charge while attached, if the main unit has power, so there's
some connection.

~~~
scott_karana
Oh, I didn't think of that. Good question indeed.

------
jwatte
Regarding the speaker grille "why:"

I'd assume the "speaker ports" are either for air flow, or the entire case
works as a resonance chamber and wave guide.

Are there other reasonable options?

------
bane
In terms of memory architecture, does anybody know if Nintendo went with
cartridges in order to better address the limited RAM of the system (compared
to other consoles)?

In the old days cartridge ROM was just mapped into the system RAM so you could
address game assets without necessarily having to load them into system RAM,
thus you could get by with far less RAM than you'd expect.

~~~
slantyyz
Just a guess, but maybe the I/O of storage on the cartridge is more consistent
than the inexpensive microSD cards that people tend to buy?

\-- edit Another benefit is not having to install/uninstall the game to manage
space

------
frik
The Nintendo Switch seems like a nice tablet form factor game console.

I am a bit underwhelmed by their decision to compromise the usability of the
right Joycon - moving the analog stick below the digital buttons is certainly
bad for US/European bigger hands, bad for ergonomic reasons, an unreasonable
trade off.

I am underwhelmed by their decision to add no additional fan to the Dock. It's
just s piece of very cheap locking plastic that might scratches your screen.
It could have cooled the Switch and get out more performance out of the GPU
(now they have to underclock it).

I am a bit underwhelmed by the Joycon grip, that is not very ergonomic for
larger hand, and is just a piece of cheap plastic. The Pro controller looks
good, but it costs extra $ 70 ($ 20 mote than PS4/X1).

I am a bit underwhelmed that the Joycons have no analog trigger buttons.
Already with Wii U the analog triggers were greatly missed in e.g. Lego City
Undercover, the car acceleration was all or nothing which pales compared to
GTA gameplay on PS4/X1/PC.

I am a bit underwhelmed about the tear down, while good executed it lacked the
final tear down and analytics of the core components like the "haptics engine"
and the SoC board incl ARM chips.

I am looking forward to a revised model at the end of 2017 that fixes things.
Maybe even a XL or XS version would be great - like the New 3DS XL which was a
greatly improved and better for larger hands. The ergonomics of the Wii U
gamepad better than the Switch too, maybe they can adopt ideas in a revised
version.

~~~
cmrdporcupine
Yeah, I'm a big Nintendo fan but so far I'm meh so far.

I am not clear why they are having performance issues but the NVIDIA Shield I
have, based around the same or even earlier version chipset, is capable of
outputing 4k games to my TV at quite excellent frame rates.

The touch screen should always be available in both modes, otherwise not
useful to developers.

A second screen experience would have been nice so they could unify DS and
Switch developer experiences.

They should have by default made people's Wii U virtual console purchases
transfer to the Switch, as a token of good will and to encourage initial
purchases of the console before other games are out.

There's no compelling reason to buy it for the new Zelda game as the Wii U
version is just as good as the Switch version (so that's what I bought).

Unfortunately unless this product drops a bunch in price and takes over their
DS niche, I am not sure it's going to do that well.

~~~
vlunkr
Using a single screen unifies them with every other developer experience
though. Currently if you're porting to the 3ds you have to think of some use
for the second screen and make you code support it. It seems like this time
Nintendo is trying to get a larger dev audience, by supporting Unity, Unreal,
etc. so you can send your game to the switch just as easily as every other
platform.

EDIT: I also agree that they should let you transfer purchases. They seem
intent on making everyone buy Super Mario Bros over and over. Tjey might lose
some profit there, but it would buy them so much in their customer
relationships.

------
ayuvar
It's amazing how compact that joystick is.

I wonder if the Joy-Cons will be changed out on people's systems more than
controllers usually are. They're almost a fashion accessory in the
tablet/portable mode.

~~~
scott_karana
I wondered that too, until I saw the prices :(

------
WestCoastJustin
This might be slightly off-topic, but if you like this type of teardown
content, I highly recommend checking out AVE's channel on Youtube [1]. He does
plenty of tool teardown's, things like drills, all types of heavy industrial
gear, and some electronics thrown in. I find is fascinating, because you start
to learn about the manufacturing process, why mechanical engineers choose
specific materials, how they cut corners, and generally how things are made at
low cost and high volume.

Here's some highlights:

\- Dyson Supersonic Hair Dryer:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-vJxez9UF8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-vJxez9UF8)

\- Hammer Drill Mechanism:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joetVGrMfAY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joetVGrMfAY)

\- Blendtec Blender:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA0kiYqyBmo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA0kiYqyBmo)

\- KitchenAid Mixer:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qKp-0h9P18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qKp-0h9P18)

\- $500 Mining Flashlight:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Te06Y26Hyiw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Te06Y26Hyiw)

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/user/arduinoversusevil/videos?view=0...](https://www.youtube.com/user/arduinoversusevil/videos?view=0&sort=dd&live_view=500&flow=grid)

~~~
gravypod
If you find youself watching AvE's vid-jeos and enjoying the content
pertaining to machining Id sugest you check out This Old Tony [0]. He's the
"Dad" to the AvE's "estranged uncle who can only come over if he wears an
ankle bracelet".

IF you like the teardowns then EEVBlog [1] goes without saying for an
electronics-perspective. I learn a lot just by watching him mess around and
take apart piles upon piles of gear. It strikes me as him making the videos he
wanted to see when he was a kid.

[0] -
[https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5NO8MgTQKHAWXp6z8Xl7yQ](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5NO8MgTQKHAWXp6z8Xl7yQ)

[1] -
[https://www.youtube.com/user/EEVblog](https://www.youtube.com/user/EEVblog)

~~~
yoodenvranx
Yes, This Old Tony one of the best Youtube channels at the moment. His old
videos are all good, but the last few videos were really excellent.

edit: Another good channel is Clickspring, right now he is building that
ancient greek mechanical computer thing which was found in a shipwreck.

------
simplemath
You are a bit underwhelmed.

Got it

~~~
frik
I listed some fair constructive criticism of minor things that came to my mind
trying it out to an overall great new game console.

You seem to be trolling, got it.

~~~
frei
The repetition of the word 'underwhelmed' seems intentional, but the reason
for it is unclear. It's distracting to the point that the actual content of
comment is lost on the reader.

------
richardboegli
It runs on FREEBSD
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13789444](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13789444)

~~~
BinaryIdiot
Kinda poor taste to just try and bump your submitted HN post versus posting
the actual source.

------
nikcub
the Switch booting into its FreeBSD kernel:

[https://twitter.com/Y_Mokko/status/837610472362786817](https://twitter.com/Y_Mokko/status/837610472362786817)

~~~
philjohn
Doesn't look like a boot screen, looks like a copyright notice screen for all
software used in the product - my Panasonic TV has one of those too (it uses a
FreeBSD Kernel)

~~~
feld
mind posting more info about this somewhere?

