

Android Tries Harder - bensummers
http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/19/android-tries-harder/

======
postfuturist
Most of the hard work of promoting the Android platform to developers has
already been done by Apple.

Originally, I wanted to spend my tax return on a Mac so I could partake in
iPhone development. Given Apple's recent actions, I'm just going to get an
Android phone, and use my current laptop loaded with Ubuntu to develop for it.

~~~
vito
I could not agree more. Sent from my Nexus One that literally just arrived. My
semi-new iPhone is on Craigslist, and I'm already working on an Android app.

That's quite some free advertising.

~~~
icey
I just wish there was a "main" android phone, or one that was a clear leader.
So far, it's felt like "the" android phone to have is whatever is next in the
pipeline.

I understand that the Nexus One is probably the nicest piece of hardware out
there right now; but it's hard to decide to jump to it when it constantly
sounds like there's going to be something even better just around the corner.

I guess my complaint is that I feel like the Android ecosystem is still too
volatile to want to spend money on a phone.

~~~
al3x
I was frustrated by the same aspect of the Android ecosystem, until I had this
minor revelation: it's not really about "the" phone, it's about the phone that
works best for you. The nice thing about Android is that you can pick the
carrier, form factor, and price point that work for you.

Want a keyboard and like Verizon? Get a Droid. Like Verizon but don't need a
keyboard? Get an HTC Incredible later this month. Like the Nexus One but want
the freedom of a SIM card? Use it on T-Mobile or AT&T. Want a cheaper phone
with a keyboard? Get one of the new Motorola models that are coming out for
just about every carrier.

You can think of it as confusing, or you can think of it as having options.
Both are probably true :)

~~~
billybob
Right. Hardly anybody asks themselves "which is the Official Best Windows
Computer?"

Android is not a single, tightly-controlled product line. It's an OS. Buy
whatever hardware you think you'd like to run it on.

It's just a different approach than Apple's, and one that has worked well in
PCs.

~~~
jsnell
Has it really worked well in PCs? The average PC manufacturer is hardly
rolling in money, unlike Apple. Nor is the average PC user likely to be too
happy with their computer. Meanwhile in the Apple ecosystem both the normal
user and the supplier seem to be rather happy. There is something to be said
for tight integration of hardware and software in providing a good user
experience.

(That said, personally I hate my MacBook Pro from work with the fire of a
thousand suns, and have only used an iPhone for playing music on long plane
trips since getting a Nexus 1.)

~~~
Nwallins
> _Has it really worked well in PCs? The average PC manufacturer is hardly
> rolling in money, unlike Apple._

Assuming we are segmenting the Mac market from the PC market, it is much
better to be in the PC market whether you are consumer or a producer. For
manufacturers, it sucks to be in Apple's market if you are not Apple
(PsyStar?). For consumers, they get a wider selection of products at lower
price points, though they do not get the design cachet.

To make a belabored car analogy, would you rather be in the market for Italian
supercars or that of the rest of the world? Both producers and consumers tend
to choose the latter.

~~~
Locke1689
Your argument doesn't make sense here.

Most consumers would _choose_ to be at the luxury end of almost every product.
It's just not a choice for almost everyone.

As to producers, it isn't inherently better to be a luxury market or a general
market -- it's highly dependent on your product, market, and competitors.

 _For consumers, they get a wider selection of products at lower price points,
though they do not get the design cachet._

That's a kind way of saying that consumers have a very diverse pile of crap to
choose from.

~~~
ZeroGravitas
Some people are just rich and can buy whatever they want.

But other people buy fancy houses, fancy cars, fancy computers, fancy
holidays, fancy clothes etc. by virtue of choosing what is important to them
and spending less on everything else. You can't spend more than average on
everything unless you have more than average money. On average, people don't.

------
zppx
> "And even now (after we peaked at the No. 7 paid app), we still have no
> relationship with anyone there."

This, for me, is a real problem with the Apple model (the "hide the engineers"
model, also followed by Oracle), we can not simply write an e-mail about a bug
(Apple do have a closed bug tracker) or suggest a feature or even get motives
about why some features do not exist in the iPhone (such as OpenVPN support),
compare this with the extensive network of blogs that Google and Microsoft
engineers have.

This is sad, you're always dealing with a cold company and not with people
just like you that probably have some good motives for including or not a
feature in a product, I wish to be alive in the day Apple becomes more open.

------
tvon
This is very smart on Google's part. What Android seems to lack is polished
apps (at least on the scale of the iPhone), and wooing specific developers
could go a long way to remedying that.

~~~
mortenjorck
Exactly.

Apple managed to get quantity, and with that the quality that you can often
expect from the top 5% given enough quantity.

Google's much more surgical approach makes sense in that they can't
realistically compete in quantity of apps any time soon, and thus have to
specifically seek out quality to compete with Apple.

~~~
frederickcook
Reminds me of the "first-to-market advantage" that entrepreneurs talk about
all the time. Apple took a huge, huge chunk of market and has had it since the
iPhone came out. I think we'll see over the next year or two how well that
works for them, and if developer sentiment is an early indicator, there could
be some big changes in market share.

~~~
rimantas

      and if developer sentiment is an early indicator
    

Be careful: what you see on HN can be a very bad indicator of the real
situation. All that was kind of blown out of proportion. There was kind of
poll on HN asking iPhone developers how they feel about 3.3.1 and most of
those who _do_ develop for iPhone said more or less along the lines "I don't
care much". The biggest outcry was probably from those who never did nor were
going to develop for iPhone. At least they found some justification for that
now.

It's easy to get scared by rejection stores, but: App Store has close to 200
000 apps now. What are the real chances to get your app rejected?

~~~
tvon
I've been kind of curious how much 3.3.1 outrage was from people who were
already outraged. I really don't know how to get a good measure of that,
though.

~~~
hockeybias
Agreed.

------
barredo
Apple's AppStore reminds me of Google AdSense policy of isolation and almost
inexistent customer service. If they ban you: They ban you. There's no
possibility to discuss things.

~~~
wmeredith
Uh, I beg to differ, and hopefully help some people out, Google's Adwords
customer service number is 1.866.2.GOOGLE.

I've had 2 great experiences with them, both involving multiple calls over a
week's time solving Adwords account problems. (I'm only managing ~$15,000 ad
spend per month, so it wasn't because I'm a big fish.) I do believe that's US
support only, but I could be wrong. It's been the better part of a year since
I've had to call in.

~~~
qeorge
AdSense is much different than AdWords. If you're rejected by AdSense there's
no recourse.

Anecdotally, my past experience with support for both AdWords and AdSense has
been terrible. I'm glad they've got an 800 number now.

------
jsz0
Smart move by Google but at the same time I feel like they have some bigger
issues to address. We know Android devices are selling pretty well. Why aren't
good apps appearing organically? I'd look at 5 major problems:

1) Descriptions and other meta data for apps in the Android Market is
atrocious. Lots of apps don't even have an informative description of what
they do. Most apps don't have screenshots. This is the developer's
responsibility however it hurts the platform as a whole when the user gets
frustrated.

2) The top charts are heavily biased towards geeky applications. I have no
doubt they register the most downloads but they may discourage people from
exploring the Market deeper. A "top grossing" list would be valuable here.

3) The Market displays apps in other currencies. This is confusing. Easily
fixable.

4) Some apps in the Market simply aren't compatible with some devices or are
otherwise very buggy. This also may discourage people from digging deeper

5) Google Checkout is a total flop. Few use it outside of the Android market.
Not sure what the solution is here but it impedes impulse buying for lots of
people.

------
proee
Classic 80/20. 80% of the best apps in the App Store are probably created by
20% of the developers.

Therefore Google is smartly attempting to come in and skim the cream from the
top.

------
iamdave
Competition is good, but there's something in that article that made me think:

>“Contrast with Apple’s approach: it took us about three months of
resubmitting our app to Apple before they stopped rejecting it for
inappropriate content. And even now (after we peaked at the No. 7 paid app)"

It's the "after we peaked at the No. 7 paid app", part. While I think it's
pretty amazing that Apple managed to create it's own microindustrial economy
within the App store, it seems that a leading motivation for writing Apps is
just to be in the App store and get ranked.

Now I know full well this isn't the _only_ reason people write apps for the
iPhone, and maybe it's because of the walled garden effect that once you write
an App you're dying to get in and hope people use it. But personally, I like
the Android ecosystem where writing and distributing software is as native as
it is on any computer.

And based on that conjecture alone, I don't think it's an issue of 'quality
control'. Taking one giant step back, when you have a format that's easily
distributed across whatever medium you choose, and don't put quality apps
beside apps of less quality in a closed-off 'store', people don't even notice.
They go for the apps they want to use and they can search whatever marketplace
has it, to purchase and install it.

Competition in the App Store is good. Consumer choice in the market place is
even better. That's why I don't own an iPhone and never will purchase an iPad.

~~~
brown9-2
I think that comment was just intended to highlight that even the developer of
a pretty successful iPhone application (by the metric of popularity) hasn't
received any outreach from Apple.

------
bradly
Developers will develop where they think they will make the most money.
Currently, that is Apple's App Store. A $500 phone isn't going to push someone
to spending the time and resources to release to Android. At least not someone
with very much business sense. I'm not trying to be a hero; I'm trying to make
a dollar.

~~~
qeorge
I know an excellent developer who just took a significant paycut to work on
something he's passionate about.

I largely agree with you that its still the bottom line that matters, but
mindshare is often under-appreciated.

------
nicpottier
The reason they try harder is because there is far less money to be made on
Android. I have the 6th top paid app in the store, Newsroom,(app, not game)
and the revenue is nowhere near enough to live on. If I had the 6th top paid
app in the iPhone catalog, I'd be writing this on my solid gold Macbook Pro.

There's a reason they are giving away handsets like mad (we've gotten two
droids free in the past month).. Money is not enough of a draw yet.

------
neonfunk
Gotta love the competitive spirit... Now if only their other services would
offer such "human" support, as opposed to the maddening, hair-pulling, teeth-
wrenching -- yes -- god-questioning expereience it is trying to contact
Checkout or AdWords support. (Don't get me wrong -- these are great products
when working proper -- it's just when they aren't working, and I'm giving them
$500/mo., it seems reasonable that I would be able to talk candidly with
someone.)

~~~
keltex
Adwords has excellent human support. Of course, you have to reach the level
where they take enough interest in you. I've found that to be about the
$2000/month level.

If you get to the $100K+/yr level then you get a rep. with a direct line that
you can appeal to.

Then once you have your adwords rep on board, they are good at helping you get
support from other groups... Checkout, Google products, etc.

------
alanh
As soon as Google stops caring so much about Android marketshare -- and they
_will_ get bored, or will lose against Apple, or start dominating -- as soon
as that happens, developers' helpful "personal contacts" will disappear.

Ask any Adwords advertiser or Google Checkout implementor.

------
credo
So if your app does well in the iPhone app store, you may get an email from
Google evangelists. OTH if your app does well in any other app store, you
don't get emails from any evangelists.

This seems to speak to the strength of the iPhone app store and this strength
also explains why most developers seem to prefer the iPhone app store :)

Note: I wrote a prototype Android app (with their beta SDK) long before the
first Android phone was in the market (and before the iPhone app store was
launched). I have successful apps in the iPhone app store, no apps in the
Android app store/market.

~~~
orangecat
_OTH if your app does well in any other app store, you don't get emails from
any evangelists._

A few months ago Google gave out free Droids and N1s to developers whose apps
had over 5000 downloads and at least a 3.5 rating. (Of course at the time my
app had 4200).

------
gojomo
Anyone want to try guessing a date when the Android Market passes the Apple
App Store in raw application count? (I know ultimately quality is more
important, but it could be a symbolically important day... and might prompt a
lighter touch towards developers from Apple.)

My wild guess: November 15.

~~~
webwright
More important guess: Will Android pass Apple in terms of market share? They
went from nothing to 1/3 of the way there in 1 quarter, pretty much.

Depends on how quickly Apple can make it to other carriers. If I were the
carriers, I'd have a few backroom meetings to NOT offer the iPhone (lest they
become dumb pipes!).

If I were Android, I'd drop the rev-share for apps to 15% from 30% so
developers make more money with less sales. And I'd make sure the carriers got
a bit of the rev share.

If I were Apple, I'd take that pile of cash and build out a cellular network
ASAP. ;-)

~~~
dannyr
The advantage of Android is that it has an army of hardware manufacturers that
can churn phones of different price points. Android can be released in much
more countries quickly than the IPhone since these HW companies will be the
ones making deals with carriers in different countries.

This is why I think it's a matter of time for Android to overtake the IPhone
in terms of unit sales. If the 30+ Android models are actually released later
this year, Android will likely surpass the IPhone early next year.

The profits crown will remain with Apple though for a very long time.

~~~
dagw
Android isn't so much competing on price point (the cheapest android phone is
only slightly cheaper than the cheapest iPhone), but on feature sets. Want a
large phone with a large high res screen, there's a phone for that. Want to
sacrifice a bit of screen size and resolution for longer battery life, there's
a phone for that. Want a phone with a keyboard, no problem. Want a slightly
smaller phone with a keyboard, you can get that too. And so on and so forth.

~~~
kalid
But that's exactly the problem for developers. How many different devices are
you willing to test on? Will your app's interface easily scale to all these
different form factors?

A huge advantage of the iphone is that there's a single screen resolution to
optimize for.

~~~
dagw
If the rumours are to be believed then that advantage will disappear this
summer. The iPhone already comes with two different CPU speeds and soon it
will have two different resolutions, so any advantage on that front is rapidly
disappearing.

~~~
hockeybias
Daring Fireball points out that iPhones with double the resolution will be out
soon.

------
elai
Now android has to try harder with it's marketplace software and
infrastructure, where it will really make a large difference in getting
developers over.

------
adnam
I still get the message "Sorry, the Nexus One phone is not available in your
country or region" on google.com/phone. I can buy a Nexus1 for 500€ on eBay,
compared to 139€ for an iPhone 3G with a data contract. I'm still holding out
for a decent Android option though.

~~~
there
that's kind of comparing apples to oranges. an unlocked iphone is about $1000,
but an unlocked nexus one is $529. a t-mobile locked nexus one is only $179,
and an at&t locked iphone is $199.

~~~
adnam
Sure, but right now my only two options are a bad apple and an expensive
orange.

~~~
moultano
Where are you? Plans without a phone to subsidize are typically cheaper.

------
hockeybias
To develop for android does one use a large subset of Java? ...There must be
many more developers with a medium-to-heavy Java background than there are
Objective-C developers. Any thoughts?

~~~
DanielRibeiro
Actually, with Android Scripting (<http://code.google.com/p/android-
scripting/>) you can use other languages that run on jvm, such as ruby,
python, javascript and others. Charles Nutter even supports a ruby version on
Android directly: [http://blog.headius.com/2010/01/busy-week-jruby-with-
android...](http://blog.headius.com/2010/01/busy-week-jruby-with-android-
maven-rake.html).

If you like static typed languages, you can even use Scala on Android
(<http://www.scala-lang.org/node/160>).

Many possibilities beyond plain old java.

~~~
theBobMcCormick
It should be noted though that Android Scripting isn't usable for producing a
standalone .apk. ie, you can't use it to build an app to put in the market.

Scala on the other hand, is supposedly production ready. I haven't tried it
yet myself, but it's on my to-do list. :-)

------
hockeybias
An interesting chapter in what is likely to be a long and interesting story.
As a 17+ year Microsoft developer I have always been impressed with
Microsoft's developer support & tools relative to those of Apple and, earlier
(for me) Sun's Java. I am often SO VERY underwhelmed with the support offered
to non-Micorsoft developers. Google seems to be using this (the Microsoft)
approach and I imagine they will have a lot of success with it!

~~~
sman
The person driving the Google's developer relations is Vic Gundotra who was
responsible for Microsoft developer relations and development tools for close
to 10+ years(I think from 96-06). He is using all the strategies that worked
for Microsoft plus new ideas which would never have been possible at Microsoft
due its closed nature.

------
jpeterson
Still not hard enough. Google needs to focus on what they do best: Search.

