
Why Americans pay more for lunch than Britons do - blowski
https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2019/09/07/why-americans-pay-more-for-lunch-than-britons-do
======
FuckButtons
Having lived in London and San Francisco I can say that from my perspective
there is a real problem with getting affordable, convenient and descent
sandwiches in the US. They’re ubiquitous in England, every shop has pre
packaged sandwiches and few are inedible. Most people who work in the city can
grab something cheapish from pret that’s pre made and tastes good. I’m yet to
find anything remotely equivalent here, prepackaged food is often just made
really badly, from low grade ingredients so much so it’s not worth taking a
punt on half the time. So you wind up paying more for something that just got
made in front of you because the alternative will make you regret buying it.
It’s a waste because most of the working week all you really want is something
that will get you through till clocking off time that you can buy and eat
quickly so you’re not wasting too much of your time out of the office.

~~~
Svip
This is actually one of my favourite things about road tripping around Europe;
you can just pull in at a random service station and get affordable,
convenient half-decent sandwiches (sometimes even decent ones!). In my
experience, the only real significant ticket item on a European road trip is
the fuel price. Even accommodations are generally a lot cheaper than their US
counterparts.

~~~
CalRobert
Did a road trip with two buddies around Europe about 10 years ago and this was
our experience. Italian gas stations felt like upscale grocery stores in the
US.

Even fuel was less than we expected due to getting 50+ mpg

~~~
dsfyu404ed
>Even fuel was less than we expected due to getting 50+ mpg

The only way I can see three adults enjoying a road trip in a vehicle small
enough to get 50mpg (assuming petrol) is if you're all car enthusiasts and
enjoying the novelty of some 30yo compact car. The second row of a modern
compact is a really crappy place if you have to be there for very long.

~~~
coldtea
Or you're perhaps too precious and fussy about cars? I've had 10K miles road
trips in smaller (European sized) cars, and they're just fine...

~~~
roel_v
I can somewhat see how being American-sized in a European car could be
uncomfortable...

~~~
coldtea
Aren't many Europeans just as tall or taller than Americans tho (e.g. Dutch,
nordic people)?

Though, waist wise, that would be true...

~~~
roel_v
Yeah I was referring to girth/width...

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squidproquo
After living in London for a year and coming back to the US, I was perplexed
at how much better (and cheaper) the UK supermarkets were when it came to
prepackaged food. I rarely ate at restaurants and did a lot of cooking.
Sainsbury's had a really great selection of pre-made chicken and tuna salads.
They cost like $2 US (equiv) and all you needed to do was get some bread and
it was enough to make two sandwiches. In the US, similar items cost around $6
(so over-priced). I would go to Pret quite a bit too, but there was also
another chain that was cheaper (can't remember the name), but after like 4PM
all the sandwiches they didn't sell got discounted and you could get some good
ones for half-price.

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gandalfian
The article is specific to pret a manger a fairly expensive/upmarket british
sandwich chain. I'm not sure it says much outside of prets individual retail
strategy. As the pound falls their USA prices look worse as it is hard for
them to raise their UK prices. For what its worth sandwiches in UK business
area strike me as extortionate but so is everything unless there happens to be
a poundland nearby... I'm not sure living off sandwiches is anything for a
nation to be proud of either. Lets hear it for fresh protein rich salads
efficiently produced and deliverd by drone!

~~~
danaris
The article may only talk about Pret, but as an American who has lived in
England for 6 months and visited there several times, Marks & Spencer's
prepackaged food is also extremely good (there's no chain in the US where
you're going to be able to get good sausage rolls or meat pies), and Tesco is
only a step or two behind.

Furthermore, as some other people have mentioned, the UK has many, many more
small local bakeries that sell high-quality made-to-order sandwiches—well
above the quality of Subway, and while individual independent bakeries are of
course going to vary, my recollection is that they tended to be above the
likes of Panera and the sandwiches you can get at even high-end grocery stores
like Whole Foods, as well. There are also various local variants that are well
worth eating—the Cornish pasties we got when visiting that region were to die
for (especially in Tintagel!).

~~~
heavenlyblue
Where did you live in the UK?

I have had really nice experience in Leeds with sandwich shops, but I don't
think these exist anymore in London.

~~~
danaris
Ruskington, Sleaford, Lincolnshire.

Near the coast in the East Midlands.

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gaspoweredcat
conversely why do Americans pay so little for electronics? when researching to
buy a new laptop about a year ago there was over a £500 difference on an
identical model between the US and UK. Here are a few random examples of tech
prices i just pulled up

Playstation 4 Pro: UK £349.99 US $364.99 (£291) ~£59 difference (amazon
com/co.uk)

Thinkpad X1 Carbon G7 (base spec): UK £1429.99 US $1179.99 (£949) ~£480
difference (lenovo com/co.uk)

HiFiman HE-400i Headphones: UK £329 US $179.99 (£145) £184 difference (amazon
com/co.uk)

Sandisk 400Gb Micro SD card: UK £67.95 US $48 (£38) £30 difference (amazon
com/co.uk)

if that were your shopping list youd save a total of £753 by buying in the US,
which is enough to fly LON-NY with not far off £500 left over! (LHR-JFK
BA/Finnair Nov 4th-8th £270 Skyscanner.co.uk)

you guys have it pretty good over there even if you pay more for some food
most other things are drastically cheaper than here in the UK. The phrase "Rip
Off Britain" is very much true, we and i believe much of Europe get a pretty
raw deal on the prices of things like houses, technology, cars etc

~~~
nokicky
The UK price includes VAT, the US price doesn’t include sales tax.

When you add sales tax (which is paid most of the time) the difference
narrows.

~~~
signal11
Although to be fair most American states have way less sales tax than the UK
VAT, which is 20%.

California - 7.5%, Florida - 6%, New York State - 4%.

I was told there was also an EU electronics recycling levy, although I'm not
sure how much that adds.

~~~
laurencerowe
Your California value excludes local sales tax, in SF it's 8.5%, though
restaurants usually add another "Healthy SF" charge to cover the various
mandates around providing health insurance to workers, often bringing it over
10%.

Sticker prices are only loosely related to the out the door price in the US.

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neonate
[http://archive.is/WpkDd](http://archive.is/WpkDd)

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vr46
Maybe the portion sizes are bigger in the US. I ordered a two egg portion of
scrambled eggs in Denny’s once and I have to say, the eggs must have come from
a dinosaur because a mountain of eggs the size of El Capitan were served to me
- yes, I know they just buy the raw eggs and pour them out, but good grief.
And this scenario repeated itself everywhere.

~~~
BeetleB
>Maybe the portion sizes are bigger in the US.

Yes. For me, if I go to any restaurant that's not fast food, chances are an
entree is enough for 1.5 meals (used to be 2 meals but sadly my appetite has
grown). When I was a student I avoided those places because then I'd need a
way to pack the food and not have it go bad.

It's easy to see why there's an obesity problem. Most people I speak to think
that's one serving for a meal.

Portion sizes in most of the world are smaller.

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j7ake
Average salaries in big cities in US Ie.g., New York City) are higher than UK
(e.g., London). It would make sense that lunch prices would be adjusted to
reflect this difference.

~~~
sjg007
Huh? The article mentions increased competition for sandwiches in the London
market.

~~~
falcongod082
That would explain why the sammiches were cheaper. American companies despise
competition.

~~~
inferiorhuman
The article also mentions greater demand as the reason for the increased
competition.

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condercet
It seems tempting to say that the quality of life in most of Europe is much
higher than in the US. There's a decent chance this is a case of "the grass is
greener" syndrome, but still.

Higher quality food, 4+ weeks of vacation, working weeks <40 hours, easier
access to arts and culture, and significantly less income inequality and
economic strife (not counting southern Europe here). Not to mention the lack
of regularly occurring mass shootings.

On the other hand, if you're working in tech, the US is definitely the place
to be. Salaries are significantly higher, while the costs of goods and
services (excluding sandwiches and rent in the bay area) are much cheaper.

For people who've lived and worked on both continents, what are your thoughts?

~~~
ChuckNorris89
European here. I haven't worked in the US but from chatting with my US
friends, tech salaries are stupidly low here indeed unless you live in Eastern
Europe where you'll get similar purchasing power as in the US.

Unless you work in a major(and expensive) tech hub and have skills that are
scarce and in demand, income in tech everywhere else is not that much higher
than any other boring office job unless you're a consultant on some niche
thing.

So while you'll live a _good_ life, you'll never hear stories like in the US
of people in tech making enough money to buy a huge property or retire early
unless they founded a successful startup that saw a good exit which is pretty
rare.

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rinkleby56
I wish they had used a different Restaurant for comparison. Pret is just not
very popular here unlike in Europe and I don't know many people who'd eat
there (except maybe to grab something on the go). Outside of Pret, portion
sizes are usually much larger in the US so it make sense that lunch in general
would be pricier. Plus European imports like Pret are typically located in
pricey downtown locations of cities like NY and SF where real estate is very
pricey.

~~~
mackey
I was thinking the same thing. I worked near a Pret and it never seemed very
popular and at least two of the Boston locations have closed in the last two
years. There are just too many better sandwich options even if do cost a
little more.

I travel to Europe a lot for work and its frustrating when you try and get a
sandwich and its been sitting premade for a while, soggy bread, and its got a
single slice of meat in it. Sure it may be a little cheaper, but compare that
with sandwich you can get at Casa Razdora[1] or Bob's[2] and its not even
close to as satisfying.

[1]
[https://s3-media4.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/jDayx34LzPfip626pT1g...](https://s3-media4.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/jDayx34LzPfip626pT1grg/l.jpg)
[2]
[https://hiddenboston.com/images/BobsDeluxItalian.jpg](https://hiddenboston.com/images/BobsDeluxItalian.jpg)

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bpyne
I read only up to the point in which I had to pay to continue. Was the article
only focusing on sandwiches?

If so, is that the biggest food in common for lunches between the US and Great
Britain?

I tend to bring my lunch M-Th and get takeout on Friday. My takeout is almost
always Thai. When I dine-in it's usually ramen. For them, I expect to pay
$10-12. What are prices like for Thai or ramen in London?

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timwaagh
I can't read this, but I have to comment anyways. My guess is simply that
america has two times the gdp per capita of the UK. Even if the cost of labour
in boston is equivalent to that of london, that isn't going to be true
elsewhere. the pre-made sandwhiches are most likely not made in Boston or
London (rather cheaper towns in the same area). Because the average american
is so much more expensive, the only surprise is that the difference is only 2
USD.

~~~
socialdemocrat
GDP is entirely irrelevant. What matters is salaries. The US may have a high
GDP per capita, but it is the most unequal western country. Minimum wage is
very low in the US compared to Western Europe.

US GDP is higher than Sweden, but workers tend to make more money in Sweden.
In the US GDP is mainly distributed to the upper classes.

I think in Norway a McDonalds worker makes something like 2x-3x as much per
hour as an American McDonalds worker.

~~~
briandear
> workers tend to make more money in Sweden. In the US GDP is mainly
> distributed to the upper classes.

That just isn’t true. And, in minimum wage, the number of people that make
minimum wage is extremely small — not even 2% of the total workforce.

[https://mises.org/wire/when-it-comes-household-income-
sweden...](https://mises.org/wire/when-it-comes-household-income-sweden-and-
germany-rank-kentucky)

~~~
oblio
I don't know if regular Walmart employees make minimum wage, but I'd rather be
a cashier at Aldi in Germany than one at Aldi in Kentucky (sorry Kentucky, I'm
just using you as an example from the linked article).

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learnstats2
I live in London and noticed this price difference in Pret in Chicago.

But, I also noticed that people take a full hour for lunch and get a sit-down
meal.

Almost nobody local would have thought to go to Pret.

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thinkingemote
I would like to see the same analysis on the difference between how much they
spend on dinner.

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tonyedgecombe
Isn’t this the case for most food, we have a very competitive food retail
sector in the UK.

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JSavageReal
The article doesn't really answer the question other than stating that there's
more competition for sandwiches in London. Would've been nice to at least see
some data to support that.

~~~
seanhandley
Did you read the whole thing? I'm trapped in front of the paywall. Was there a
conclusion?

~~~
inferiorhuman
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20897889](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20897889)

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mcguire
Does this include drinks? They are often the big sources of profit for
restaurants, and that's not counting beer.

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bowlich
I'm in the Southwest and $6 from any Mom & Pop Mexican cafe will net you a
carnita burrito the size of your head and take two days to eat.

Maybe the Lobster rolls are bigger?

~~~
ngngngng
That's great, but it's beside the point.

Maybe give the article a read?

~~~
rinkleby56
It isn't really though. The article suffers from very small sample size (one
restaurant chain that's relatively unknown in the US). At the least, the grand
title of the article is not justified

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sys_64738
In England my lunch was a sandwich from Sainsburys. In the US I skip lunch so
US is cheaper.

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AstralStorm
Ultimately, the lobster sandwich is a luxury good. People wanting to save can
make their own sandwiches and bring them in a lunch box.

So a lot of it comes down to local positioning and some to marketing. Some to
labor costs.

~~~
Thlom
I'm in Norway, and tradition until relatively recently has been to bring a few
slices of bread with ham, cheese, pate or whatever wrapped in paper. Sometimes
left overs from dinner the day before. Almost always consumed in a canteen
with your co-workers. More recently many work places have a canteen with both
hot and cold food for a discounted price. If you don't have access to a
canteen the shops sell relatively cheap sandwiches or micro wave lunches.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
[https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20190103-the-
norwegian-...](https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20190103-the-norwegian-
art-of-the-packed-lunch)

It isn’t very flattering about your sandwiches.

~~~
Thlom
Yeah, it’s pretty boring.

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lanevorockz
Americans love elitism and self promotion. That’s why hype products make so
much money in the US but not in Europe. This is changing quickly as the EU has
a strong push to Americanise Europe. The whole world might end up being the
same set of fast foods, big chain restaurants and same faff food.

~~~
defertoreptar
> Americans love elitism

Last I heard, Americans were being criticized for populism. Which is it?

~~~
AstralStorm
These are not exclusive, you can play to the elites while praising
proletariat.

~~~
defertoreptar
The ideologies themselves are exclusive, to the point that they are opposites.
What you're implying is that "Americans" are composed of groups and
individuals that adhere to varying beliefs. Some can "love elitism", while
others go the way of populism. It's not good to generalize a whole country so
easily, which is my point.

