
Over 13% of the homes in Japan are abandoned - bookofjoe
http://flip.it/XKsblo
======
mistrial9
A modern Japanese man, working in tech in California, in his late thirties or
early forties spoke with his parents back home in Tokyo five years ago about
two houses the family owns, which are in desirable areas, well-maintained and
currently occupied. The taxes and financing are such that there is no current
scenario where the man could own one or both of these homes. It is simply too
expensive. None of the people in this vignette are poor, they are all
moderately wealthy people, who have fairly substantial income, and some
savings.

Move the story to California. A three bedroom home in the San Francisco Bay
Area, covered by Proposition 13, purchased by ordinary working people with
good financial habits, around the 1970 time frame, and a working late-
thirties, early forties person with some savings and good financial habits,
cannot afford to take the home under almost any circumstances due to property
taxes (cost of ownership) and competition for financing (loans not available
in practice due to terms).

There is a lot of emotion on both sides of the Pacific in each of these cases.
Individuals are quick to point fingers at the other individuals. It has been
decades in the making, and the situation is not new. Many on both sides of the
Pacific are renting at high prices (no accumulated capital) and deferring (or
avoiding) having children.

~~~
rb808
I didn't know about Japanese property tax, a quick google shows there are a
lot of taxes, 1.7% annually. 2% on registration. + some extras

[https://resources.realestate.co.jp/buy/guide-to-japanese-
rea...](https://resources.realestate.co.jp/buy/guide-to-japanese-real-estate-
taxes/)

~~~
toomuchtodo
That’s about on par with the top ten highest property tax states in the US
(~1.5-1.7% annually).

~~~
rb808
Agreed, just most countries in the world don't have any property taxes, so was
surprised to see Japan as having them.

edit: I do agree there are some common property taxes globally, but they're
just a few hundred or at most 1-2k a year, not like 1-2% in some of the US
states (and Japan)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property_tax](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property_tax)

~~~
luckydata
most advanced countries in the world DO have property taxes. Why do you think
that's not the case?

~~~
cheerlessbog
Some places they are capped rather then percentages, I believe this is the
case in the UK.

~~~
rcxdude
The UK doesn't have a direct property tax. The closest thing is the council
tax (which is linked to the notional value of your home in 1991), but that is
generally paid by the occupants, not the owner (and may be discounted or
increased if a home is left empty depending on the disposition of the local
council). It also doesn't update as the market changes, because it's
effectively frozen 30 years ago.

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Simulacra
Very short article. Unfortunate that it doesn’t mention that the Japanese view
older homes as inferior to new homes.
[https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/nov/16/japan-
reusabl...](https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/nov/16/japan-reusable-
housing-revolution)

~~~
onion2k
They're not pulling the old home down and building new ones though, so your
reason can't be the whole story.

~~~
admax88q
They're moving to Tokyo.

Japans as a whole is losing population but Tokyo is increasing.

~~~
masklinn
> Japans as a whole is losing population but Tokyo is increasing.

And even smaller cities are losing population much slower than their rural
surroundings e.g. Wakayama mentioned in the article shrank by 10% (population
wise) between the 2000 and 2015 census, but Wakayama-chi "only" shrank by 6%
while rural Kushimoto-cho shrank by 23%, Susami-cho by 30%.

------
rossdavidh
The percentage for the American city of St. Louis is higher (around 19% last I
heard). Here, take a look at what you can buy: [https://www.stlouis-
mo.gov/government/departments/sldc/real-...](https://www.stlouis-
mo.gov/government/departments/sldc/real-estate/lra-owned-property-search.cfm)

~~~
jdhn
There's also the Detroit Land Bank:
[https://buildingdetroit.org/?SID=od96l337m03770qo0gcsfta3h1](https://buildingdetroit.org/?SID=od96l337m03770qo0gcsfta3h1)

------
sigil
Elsewhere:

> However, akiya owners are taxed more for empty plots of land than for having
> an empty property, according to real estate expert Toshihiko Yamamoto. This
> is a deterrent to razing a vacant home.

[https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/05/asia/japan-vacant-akiya-
ghost...](https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/05/asia/japan-vacant-akiya-ghost-
homes/index.html)

If true, this would go a long way toward explaining the 13% figure.

~~~
mcguire
Weird. We have the opposite issue in the US; I've known several instances of
people demolishing an intact structure because they didn't currently have a
need for a barn.

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ArtWomb
There was an earlier post on here about municipalities in Japan offering
abandoned houses for practically nothing. And I have to admit, ever since
seeing that, the fantasy of building a retreat in "tropical" Kagoshima has
been a constant in my mind ;)

~~~
awakeasleep
From what I've been able to glean by reading, smaller cities and especially
villages in Japan have vicious social ostracism, a lack of good jobs, and no
remarkable educational institutions.

~~~
toyg
The sad part is really the social ostracism. Other factors can be fixed or
bypassed, but culture is always the hardest bit.

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EGreg
I always wonder about these pot calling kettle black statistics. This is
normal in the US too. Over 11% of US residential property sits unrented and
unused.

[https://www.cnbc.com/amp/id/41355854](https://www.cnbc.com/amp/id/41355854)

------
blazespin
Something doesn’t add up. 20% vacancy in Wakayama but foreigners can’t buy
houses -
[https://realestate.co.jp/en/forsale/wakayama](https://realestate.co.jp/en/forsale/wakayama)

~~~
SapporoChris
Most likely an issue with that website/service in particular. Other sites list
more properties, but still a limited number. So your point about something not
adding up may still be correct.

[https://en.sekaiproperty.com/search/japan/wakayama](https://en.sekaiproperty.com/search/japan/wakayama)

In my experience, when looking at real estate in Japan, going to a local agent
is really the best bet.

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TheRealPomax
This article is one paragraph with an additional three paragraphs of fluff
padding. Why on earth did we collectively upvote it?

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Waterluvian
This feels like a possible cascade failure waiting to happen across their
economy and society.

------
localhostdotdev
wouldn't that be a sign of a healthy housing market? (e.g. liquidity)

if 99%-100% of homes were occupied then it would reach saturation (hard to
buy/rent homes)

~~~
mdorazio
That's still high for a "healthy" level of vacancy, and it's also assuming
those vacancies are in areas where people want to live. In reality, most of
this housing stock is in smaller towns people are leaving while available
housing in Tokyo is not exactly plentiful.

------
e40
Sounds like they need to encourage immigration to occupy those homes.

~~~
mcguire
They need to encourage immigration for several reasons, but they don't like
immigrants.

~~~
AdrianB1
What are the reasons? There is none in the article and there is no obvious
reason to overpopulate a country with no natural resources.

~~~
scarejunba
The primary reason is they're suffering an inverted population pyramid.

~~~
AdrianB1
And how is that wrong? Please bring in more details.

~~~
scarejunba
Hmm? This is well described stuff so I encourage you to do your own research.
Here's a start: [https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/27/world/asia/japan-
confirms...](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/27/world/asia/japan-confirms-a-
decline-in-population.html)

------
PunchTornado
I view it as a positive thing and wish it to happen in many countries.

Governments should stop thinking about population and gdp growth as a
necessity. This is harmful when we're dealing with a planet with limited
resources.

~~~
cybersnowflake
You don't see population shrinkage as necessarily bad, well I don't think
population growth as necessarily bad. Overall in the modern West theres been a
lot more propaganda against the latter. Risky business really, because I get
the feeling decline is going to be a lot harder to combat than growth.

Its not really a matter of size as it is of quality. I personally wouldn't
mind a lot more genius rocket scientist supermodels being born. Our best
chance to stave off extinction is not to bury our heads in the sand and hope
we last on this one rock but to expand. Growth is not in itself the evil,
limited resources is and that is what should be tackled. If humanity had
limited itself to the size that some people think is sensible from the very
beginning you wouldn't be enjoying the comforts like your room and fancy
computer that you are now.

~~~
AdrianB1
Japan's population tripled in the past 100 years, they have no natural
resources and live on imported oil, minerals and food. The population density
is very high if you consider the geography (many mountains). A slight decrease
is not a bad thing in such circumstances.

------
Fnoord
This, in combination with homeless people (or youth who still live at their
parents while wanting to live on their own) is why I am pro squatting. If you
don't use it, the land is up for other's use.

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zmix
It's surprising to me, since I have heard, that Japan is very, very densely
populated.

~~~
nipponese
...in three or four metropolitan areas. Image search for "japan population
density": When oil is super expensive and public transportation is well-
developed, property scarcity around public transit centers is the choke point.

~~~
TulliusCicero
Even in smaller cities, Japanese urban design usually makes for much higher
levels of density than for equivalent population US cities.

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Havoc
So can I get an airbnb for super cheap there then?

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fungi
whats with the flip.it url? it just redirects to short quartz article.

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marvel_boy
Wow, 13% is a quite a lot.

~~~
tyingq
It is. Flint, Michigan is at 16% vacancy, and I assume "vacancy" is a broader
term than "abandoned".

~~~
kuzimoto
I wonder if that would have anything to do with all the issues the city has
though? According to wikipedia, GM went from providing 80 thousand, to 8
thousand jobs, high crime rates, they had a financial crisis, and of course
the whole water contamination issues since 2014.

Seems likely that it's an outlier in this case.

~~~
koala_man
Flint, MI is well known for this.

The intention was undoubtedly to say that Japan's abandonment rate has gotten
so high that it's comparable to a disaster stricken city.

~~~
kuzimoto
Ah I think you're right looks like I misread it haha.

