

Join Oliver Stone and Noam Chomsky in Urging Correa to Grant Snowden Asylum - mrleinad
http://org.salsalabs.com/o/1439/p/dia/action3/common/public/?action_KEY=13829

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_djo_
No. While I believe Snowden did the right thing by releasing information on
the NSA's domestic spying, he lost my support by going on to release
information detailing how the NSA spied on foreign states. He crossed a line
when doing that and as such he ought to face the US legal system.

Plus, as others have said, Ecuador is hardly a paragon of freedom. It spies on
its citizens in ways just as blatant and intrusive as that of the US, if not
more, and political dissent and media freedom is only barely tolerated.

Let's not allow the rightful anger over the NSA's domestic activities blind us
into giving Snowden a free pass to leak whatever he has (in his own words he
regards all surveillance as wrong) or into believing that Rafael Correa is on
the side of those of us who don't like pervasive state surveillance.

~~~
eightyone
It's not ok for the U.S. to hack major Chinese telecoms to spy on it's
citizens.

~~~
_djo_
Why not? Do you think other countries are not hacking US telecoms to spy on US
citizens?

The main threats in the world are no longer just states, they're also small
groups of individuals capable of doing a ton of damage. I see no way for the
NSA or CIA to be able to do their jobs without being permitted to spy on
foreign citizens.

The protections for American citizens against their government spying on them
are intended to preserve political freedom in the US. Security is traded for
liberty. That same relationship does not exist between the US government and
foreign citizens like me.

~~~
gosu
> Why not?

Obvious ethical considerations. I'm sick of living on the death star.

It doesn't seem possible to me that any non-transparent organization with such
capabilities will ever live up to some promise to "just spy on brown people".
In Snowden's words: "policy protection is no protection — policy is a one-way
ratchet that only loosens".

I don't think foreign spy programs are relevant to this discussion. If
Pakistan jumped off a bridge, would you follow?

> The main threats in the world are no longer just states

The main threats in the news are no longer just states, that's all. A few
people commit criminal acts in a foreign country somtimes. Meanwhile, states
have nuclear weapons and are very often in a state of war.

> That same relationship does not exist [for foreign citizens].

Perhaps it should. Your reasoning was developed back when packets had their
ping measured in years. One very simple reason to call Snowden a hero is that
I want US tech companies to be trusted and to thus prosper, because I want to
work for them.

In general, it upsets me that some narrative has taken hold where, because
"non-US persons" are on the internet, it's OK for a non-transparent agency to
listen to everything on the internet, and high treason for someone to attempt
to save me from it. Living in China for a couple days and talking to the news
isn't "going to the enemy", as you'd so like me to see it.

------
frozenport
While he doesn't have as strong a name as Putin, Rafael Correa is not a nice
guy and Ecuador's political situation is ugly. We recently saw HN posts about
the surveillance equipment they are buying.

I think its irresponsible for Correa to hurt the lives of his citizens by
hurting US-Ecaduaror ties just to make fun of the USA.

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mpyne
No. Snowden's own father acknowledges that he technically broke the law, and
is especially worried about him getting mixed up with WikiLeaks (gee, I wonder
why he'd be worried about the perception of that happening?).

I actually think the government could accede to the requests of Snowden's
father completely and still get justice in the end (though we'll see what they
do).

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dllthomas
Ecuador should grant Snowden asylum, but even more Obama should pardon
Snowden. Sign that petition
([https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-
snow...](https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-
snowden/Dp03vGYD)), if you haven't, whether or not you sign this one.

