
Gen Yers lack confidence, behave like idiots - fiaz
http://thegig.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/04/16/gen-yers-lack-confidence-behave-like-idiots/
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mynameishere
This sort of thing is an old, old sport.

<http://thinkexist.com/quotes/hesiod/>

 _I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on the
frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words.
When I was a boy, we were taught to be discrete and respectful of elders, but
the present youth are exceedingly wise and impatient of restraint._

~700 BC

~~~
tx
Whatever. Living with your parents in your 20s is disgusting, sir.

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rewind
Living with your parents if you're lazy or a freeloader is lame. There are
countless good reasons beyond those to live with your parents if they're cool
with it. What's disgusting about that? I lived with my parents until I was
finished my degree when I was 24. I've had friends who hit tough times move
back home to get back on their feet (who were accepted with open arms). I've
had other friends stay home longer than I did because their goals did not
bring them the financial benefits of others and it took longer to become self-
sufficient. Their parents were more than happy to support them when they did
not have the means to achieve their goals on their own. I don't personally
find any of this disgusting.

~~~
tx
Listen to yourself. You could be speaking Chinese right now with a similar
effect. If my dog could understand (and speak) your language, he could have
explained why licking his own balls isn't disgusting. He's cool with it.

~~~
rewind
You know, I'm not sure if that was meant to be harsh of if you're just joking
around, but I don't even care... that's damn funny stuff either way. I know
most people don't like the biting responses, but that was gold.

~~~
tx
Man, this ain't real life, it's only Internet and my name isn't "tx" :)
Besides, I lived with my pops in my 20s myself and speaking from experience.
(I hated it).

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edw519
Another "everyone in the same age group is the same" post.

All boomers are...

All Gen Xers are...

All Gen Yers are...

Yeah, right.

This is just an excuse for lazy journalism (is there any other kind any more?)

Would have been nice if the author dug a little deeper to try to understand
why none of the 7 people answered the phone. To his credit, he brought up
several good points:

"They’re trained to work in teams — in school, in extracurriculars"

My theory (even though I'm no more qualified than anyone else):

For many young people, playing on a sports team has replaced the part time
job. There was a time when you _had_ to work if you wanted a car, insurance,
or money for college. Not so necessary now.

Responsibility to one's teammates has replaced "getting the work done". I have
always thought that real responsibility is learned "on the job". Delay work,
delay responsibility.

Even in this community, there's a tendency to try to solve problems in our own
little vacuum. Here's what I think... I read somewhere... Things oughta work
like... As a hacker, I'm just as guilty as anyone else; it's so easy to try to
"think" things through.

Then I stop and say, "Find a customer." (Or find a job.) Once you have to
really serve others in need, the "issues" cited by the OP melt away.

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username2
I don't see "All Gen Yers" in the article.

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DougBTX
"Gen Yers lack confidence" without further qualification means "All Gen Yers
lack confidence".

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hugh
Gramatically perhaps, but in context these sorts of statements about the
personal characteristics of groups of people are generally understood to be
generalizations.

"Ravens are black" ==> "All ravens are black"

"Germans like beer" ==> "Germans have a significantly greater tendency to like
beer than people in general, though of course there are some non-beer-liking
Germans"

It could be an interesting question in linguistics to figure out the
difference between the two types of "Xes are Y" sentence.

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olefoo
Didn't I read the same article back in 1993?

One thing that the article does get right is that people are treated and act
like adolescents until their 30's or even 40's and it's now considered
socially acceptable (to a point).

But that's a longterm demographic and cultural trend that's been going on
since World War II.

~~~
bkovitz
There is an important demographic shift happening, and anyone starting a
business that rides a large social wave would be wise to pay attention to it.

In the 1980s and 1990s, the younger generation was put down as cynical,
slackers, no good, apathetic, criminal, etc. They were seen as too
individualistic, not group-oriented enough. The Gen Y generational put-downs
are new: too group-oriented, lacking individual initiative, too nice,
"coddled", etc. There's underlying truth in both kinds of put-down, even if
(of course) they don't apply to every person in each generation. As Gen Y gets
older, the optimism, group orientation, and lack of individual initiative will
become even more clear. For one thing, they'll seek strong leadership from
government. And of course, the changing demographic will both create and
destroy business opportunities.

Strauss 7 Howe's books _Generations_ and _The Fourth Turning_ make a lot of
interesting observations (and predictions) about this.

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justindz
The professor might also be an overbearing tool bag or the class might not be
particularly worth the effort (I've had a few of these). Anecdotal evidence
like this is junk.

My dad showed me his report card from Kindergarten once. He barely passed
because "Eddie has trouble whistling and skipping in a straight line." When he
got in to Dylan, it was all over for his potential as a productive and
intelligent human.

Of course, he's a published author and editor of poetry, novels and non-
fiction, humor columnist, wilderness advocate, sometimes environmental
lobbyist, motivational speaker and researcher/writer/editor for the
beautifully designed black-bordered brochures you get at our national parks.

And still loves Dylan (Bob and Thomas). And he's my hero. And he figured out
how to whistle and skip in line somewhere along the way.

~~~
edw519
"And he's my hero."

Count your blessings.

~~~
justindz
Every other day :-)

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gamerates
I wish people would talk about "people" instead of senseless "generational"
gaps. Although of course you are going to be shaped by common experiences of
your generation (let's say 9/11, Iraq War, etc. for my generation) and the
social (gay rights, black/woman potential president, etc.) and technological
changes (grew up with computers and the internet) that are occurring during
your time period, you are shaped much more by your friends, parents,
education, life experiences, location, and realistically the socio-economic
status you were born into.

Some PEOPLE are confident. Some PEOPLE are not. Maybe it's just because I
happen to attend a top university that is highly competitive, but I don't
commonly see this lack of confidence. Although, at the same point as a
generation gets older and matures in it's occupational field, of course it is
going to become more confident.

People = People. We are much more alike than we are different. That's what
makes classics, classics throughout centuries not just generations. It's
because they relate to all PEOPLE.

~~~
nazgulnarsil
I forget what the cognitive bias is called, but the gist is ignoring
similarities and magnifying differences. It's a prime motivator in negative
race relations too.

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nihilocrat
Oh cool, another one of those 'them darn yunguns ain't made right' articles!

“Because this generation has been so coddled,” says Michael Wilder, pointing
to Yers’ ever-present boomer parents, “when they do have to make a decision on
their own, they’re looking for affirmation. They have no basic experience to
allow them to be confident about the decisions they’re making.”

Heh, so you mean we're babies because our parents weren't drunks that beat us
every night? Come and see my family, we are all emotionally isolated and not
even remotely touchy-feely.

It's really nothing new. Just some dude writing an article about how he hates
herd mentality.

Oh, and a handy counterpoint from the same magazine. Maybe those old fogeys
can't believe in a world where the company is expected to screw you over and a
steady job means a life of missed opportunities:
[http://thegig.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/05/30/job-
hopping-g...](http://thegig.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/05/30/job-hopping-gen-
yers-arent-disloyal-theyre-smart/)

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giardini
He got it right - they're idiots. A roomful of people sitting around a ringing
phone - sheesh!

What surprises me is the lengths that people will go to in attempting to
justify the groups' actions, especially on the blog.

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jeroen
It's hard to compare generations, as you are inevitably comparing observations
on the current generation with memories about previous generations. Memories
are always distorted by the passing of time.

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jrockway
Gen X-ers have too much confidence, write idiotic "news" articles

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Harkins
Interesting premise and anecdotes, but where's the evidence?

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coglethorpe
Get offa my lawn!

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daveambrose
What is the average age/generation of a HN reader? I'd like to think Gen Y and
I'd sure as anything bet they are the most confident of their close group of
friends/colleagues. What do you think?

I'm 23 and this continual stereotype of my generation as "clueless" or "timid"
is just absurd.

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snprbob86
I'm 21. I've got significant confidence. I'm also very assertive. Roll those
character traits together with my perpetual boredom in class, and I wind up
speaking out a lot. Every since high school, I was always the student to speak
my opinion first and throw in my 2 cents every chance I got. As a result, I'm
not well liked by instructors and some portion of students (typically those
with differing views). I'm quite glad I just graduated.

I've made some very unpopular statements in philosophy, government, or similar
classes wrought with highly debated topics. In about 8 years of this, not one
person has spoken up in agreement with me during class. In fact, I've publicly
asked the class "doesn't anyone agree with me?" several times. Not a single
hand has ever gone up.

However, on numerous occasions, I have had peers come up to me after class and
thank me for voicing an opinion they shared. I can think of 3 reasons for the
refusal to do this publicly.

1) Students (or employees) are conditioned not to challenge the views of their
instructor (or manager) -- it is in the best interest of their GPA (or career)

2) It seems that there is a expectation that unpopular ideas are held by
unpopular people. It is socially safer to keep your opinions to yourself.

3) When someone is in trouble and only one person is there to see it, that
person feels compelled to help. When someone is in trouble and there is a
crowd watching, it is often far longer before someone steps up to help because
no one feels that they are responsible.

~~~
nazgulnarsil
I've had the same thing happen, no support in class, then afterwards people
come up to me and ask me about further reading on the subject/unpopular
opinion.

try this on for size in a government class sometime: the founding fathers were
terrorist tax evaders and democracy is a stupid idea. People have no idea how
to react, it hurts their brain to go that far outside "normal thinking".

~~~
daveambrose
That's a shame. Academia exists to challenge traditional thinking.

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icky
_> He — an Xer — was running late for a meeting, and_

Let us all learn to be responsible adults, like Generation X!

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magus_pwnsen
Answering others' phones, with unknown callers, is one of those
responsibilities that low-ranking workers _always_ prefer to pass on to
someone else. Answering phones sucks. The downside is that one might
inadvertently offend an important person. ("[Y] speaking." "Hi, this is [X]."
"Who are you?" "Your new boss, as of Monday, actually." "Oh.") There's no
upside to answering, since responsibility for non-answering is diffused. So
the phone is not answered.

There's also conditioning at play. Remember the Grey Phone of Death, in high
school? The one that usually carried calls to and from the principal's office,
which you could get an in-school suspension for using without permission?
Yeah, _that_ phone.

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lolb
We think you Boomers are stupid too.

