
Ask HN: Startup Salaries in Europe - tsamtsam
Are there legitimate, credible sources that aggregate startup salaries in European tech hubs? Or is anyone willing to share about this?
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fittyfox
Living in Berlin, various StartUp experiences.

2013: 34k (junior Frontend)

2014: 40k (Fullstack JS)

2015: 50k (Frontend)

2016: 60k (Frontend)

Went freelancing after this...

2020: 85k offer for Senior Software Engineer

All numbers are from StartUps. You have to know however that you probably
won't find a unicorn in Europe just yet. It's not the same mentality as in the
US.

I currently work for a US company with a European location, and it differs
quite a lot.

30+ days holidays + country wide holidays 38h work week Free day care where I
live

I checked and I would have to earn around 140k in New York or 280k in San
Francisco to have the "same" quality of life as 85k in Berlin buys me.
However, in Berlin I have additional benefits like the ones mentioned above. I
pay around 1100 Euros for a 110qm apartment "downtown" and have no car.

~~~
thiago_fm
Mind to share the company? I can count in one hand companies in Berlin paying
more than 80k/year for senior devs. Even for well-seasoned companies, maybe
only team leads get paid that much, and for many companies, not even.

~~~
patrickmahomes
Contentful, GetYourGuide, N26 to name a few pay similar salaries for mid-level
engineers. _most_ other companies don't though.

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255kb
There is a spreadsheet for France (in French). It's quite Paris-centric, but
it gives an idea. [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Zjvz-
Ud2TR3rco2BTq0X...](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Zjvz-
Ud2TR3rco2BTq0X0Ovr29ohASCRiAATwmAX5YY/edit#gid=1145296357)

~~~
toto444
Wow! Back end developper avance < 50K euros on average. That is not much. I am
genuinely surprised.

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dakiol
A good rule of thumb (although it's difficult to summarize the salaries of all
the countries in Europe) is: Juniors up to 30K. Mediors up to 50K. Seniors up
to 80K.

This is for software engineers.

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ck_one
At least in Germany they are higher. A friend who is still in college got an
offer as a new grad for ~75k. This offer is probably in the top 10% though. I
don't know a single friend from college who starts with less than 45k as a new
grad. Those who get 45k usually don't have internship experience.

~~~
yulaow
In Italy a senior dev would often get less than half of that (pretax).
Basically just in Milan salary are higher but a junior would not get more than
30k

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cgb223
What does that look like post tax?

Is it livable?

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yulaow
30k is around 1700euros/month after tax. Sounds like a little but it is
already 200euros/month over the average salary in Italy and this is for a
junior position (even if I have to admit I saw often 26000-28000 euro as a
common pre-tax salary for juniors outside Milan)

For comparison for a two rooms apartment in a city (again, except for Milan)
you usually pay around 400-700e so it is livable and you can save enough money
month over month. If you are a couple with both around the same pay you can
live quite well and with a senior role (typically you get 38k = 2100
euros/month but I see some good companies offer 45k = 2450euros/month) you
really have no problems at all and can save a lot + buy a 3 or 4 rooms
apartment easily.

Then Milan is an exception. There as a senior you can get quite easily 65k =
3400 euro/month to 85k but the cost of life is London-level and rents are
absurdly high in any part of the city, so much that mostly you want to live
outside of it and just commute via trains.

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olegious
I made about 2x less in Europe than the US in a similar sized startup, this is
in product management.

But there were other perks- 35 days minimum vacation (I was required to take
those days by law), a very clear work life balance, more relaxed work
environment and a better quality of life overall.

I did end up moving back to the US to make 3x more (money is important to me
right now), but am planning to return after my wife and I have kids- the
quality of life differences are just too great.

~~~
pepe56
I think this is a very good summary. The number on your paycheck is not
representative of how good your quality of life is. You can almost never
compare salaries 1:1 even in different cities of the same country. It was
mentioned on this thread as well, but €60k in rural Germany, €80k in Berlin
and €120k in Munich are quite similar in terms of what you get, cost of
property/land and stuff. All 3 are basically very much upper middle class in
those regions.

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inertiatic
I live in Athens, Greece, work for a company that calls itself a startup (but
has been around for a decade) and I make ~35k a year.

My general sentiment is that locally that's more than what most startups are
paying, but at the same time most startups aren't hiring mid-senior people.

As far as regular tech companies go, it's a good but not great salary.

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yamrzou
There is this survey from 2017:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15088840](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15088840)

Answers here: [https://goo.gl/X45Dtt](https://goo.gl/X45Dtt)

Maybe worth a re-post on HN.

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glotgizmo
UK, small county with growing tech scene. My personal experience:

Junior - £16-18k

Mid Web Developer - £30k

Very early startup React/Laravel - £28-30k

Senior/Head of Web Development - £30k

Software Developer - ~£42k

Expected future salary - £50k-£60k (~15 years experience)

Reading HN can give you a very unrealistic view of salaries when you look at
the UK outside of London.

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Peroni
Happy to give you specific salaries for London, UK. Let me know what roles
you're interested in and I'll post numbers.

For context, I've been running talent functions for tech startups in London
for about ten years as well as running a number of tech job boards over the
years.

~~~
tsamtsam
I'd be super grateful if you could share numbers for frontend/fullstack roles!

~~~
Peroni
Typical entry level roles start at around £32k.

Senior individual contributor roles (so not factoring in team lead roles) go
to as high as £90k but around £70k is more typical of the average senior
frontend developer.

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cgb223
How does equity or stock options work in Europe?

Is it as common as the US? What is normal for percentages/allotments?

~~~
eb0la
The problem with options and stock in Europe are Taxes: rules change from one
country to another.

As a rule of thumb, usually you'll be taxed for your gross salary (including
bonuses) + (value of stock received).

AFAIK in my country (Spain), you'll be also taxed by the value of the options.
Some other countries allow you to deduct the option buy cost - if any.

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zn44
in London

30-45 - junior

45-60 - mid

60-80 - senior

80-95 - principal

95-120 - vp

~~~
Peroni
Those VP numbers aren't quite right. The average for VP is around £160k and go
up to around £190k.

~~~
zn44
All above is what I’ve offered at my startup (Series A) so it’s accurate at
least for one business ;) I agree range for management positions options would
be much higher for later stage startups, with great bonus and a lot of
shares/options

