
Could We Run Modern Society on Human Power Alone? - kwhitefoot
http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2017/05/could-we-run-modern-society-on-human-power-alone.html#more
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apsec112
Previous discussion:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14437923](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14437923)

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eeks
Some years ago, an engineer gave a talk at the French National Assembly to a
workgroup debating on sustainable energy. His point was that, by comparing the
average yearly energy consumption of an occidental 1st-world person to the
mechanical energy production of an average human being, each occidental would
need about 200 slaves to maintain the same lifestyle. This is obviously not an
qualitative equivalence but it helps put our way of life in perspective.

~~~
Retric
Pre-industrial societies used hydro, wind, solar, animal, and chemical power
(wood etc) making the direct energy comparison moot.

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westbywest
This article focuses on inventive ways to replace mechanical plants typical to
large multi-story structures. It overlooks the mechanized power that would
still be needed to grow and deliver food necessary to sustain that population
density. Vertical gardening on the scale required is not at the same level of
maturity as the human-power techniques the article describes.

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jackcosgrove
I understand this article is a bit of fun, but some of the ideas are risible.

> Could we run modern society on human power alone?

No, the current global population has swelled because of fossil fuel
consumption. We _can_ run pre-modern society on human power alone however.

> Unlike fossil fuels, human power can be a clean energy source, which
> produces little or no air pollution and soil contamination.

I hardly think a medieval alley with human waste pooling in it is clean.

> In combination with the right diet, human power is carbon neutral.

So not only do we have to be yoked to the Wheel of Pain, but we have to be
vegetarians too?

> We can try and motivate people by making human energy production more fun,
> social, and exciting.

Let's gamify slavery!

> If students have to generate their own power, they are much less likely to
> waste it.

Now _this_ I agree with. If only we could turn the same attention to student
loans...

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TremendousJudge
There is no such thing as "Human Power". Animals don't generate power, they
just transform it from food via a roundabout process that produces lots of
waste. There's just no way this is the most energy efficient way

~~~
the_gastropod
> they just transform it from food via a roundabout process that produces lots
> of waste.

You mean like any other machine that generates power? A human on a bicycle,
assuming a ~20% efficiency of converting food calories to muscle output, gets
a gasoline equivalent 600-1000mpge
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_performance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_performance)).
And unlike a car, using a bicycle has health benefits.

~~~
jdietrich
Humans are a pathetically inefficient motor; Gasoline engines are around 30%
efficient and battery-electric drivetrains are more than 90% efficient. A
bicycle looks efficient because that inefficient motor is also pathetically
low in power - a typical recreational cyclist can only sustain about 120 watts
of output.

The leading vehicles in the Shell Eco-marathon routinely exceed 10,000 MPGe.
PAC-Car II is the current world record holder, achieving 12,600 MPGe on
hydrogen fuel.

Photovoltaic cells are also astonishingly more efficient than photosynthesis.
The theoretical maximum efficiency of photosynthesis is ~11%, but most plants
only achieve 3-6% efficiency. The leading commercially-available PV panels
achieve ~22% efficiency and prototype concentrator PV cells have achieved over
46% efficiency.

~~~
the_gastropod
Comparing these completely not road legal cars to technology from the 19th
century is a stretch. I can legally ride my ~600MPGe bike on the streets
TODAY. If PAC-CAR II equivalent cars are available to the mass market within
our lifetimes, it will be impressive.

~~~
jdietrich
Electrically-assisted velomobiles are road-legal in most jurisdictions.

[http://www.go-one.us/](http://www.go-one.us/)

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CodeCube
Reminds me of that Rick and Morty episode about the teenyverse:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_CyMqQBO8w&t=77s&ab_channel...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_CyMqQBO8w&t=77s&ab_channel=VhozmanGoodman)

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EwanG
Covers a number of ways humans can actively (and passively) support their own
energy use. Things like contributing waste to bio gas production, gym machines
to mini generators, etc.

