

1000Memories: A Loved One Has Passed Away. What’s Your Digital Strategy? - jonathanbgood
http://techcrunch.com/2010/07/09/a-loved-one-has-passed-away-whats-your-digital-strategy/

======
grellas
I wonder how this might change the way we remember those long departed.

We are a relational by nature as human beings and this means that connections
fade with time. Young people by nature tend not to care about the life
challenges faced by grandpa and grandma all those many years ago. We make
idols of celebrities in our generation but what of the past generation or two.
Maybe those of us who are older will well remember a film star out of the
1940s such as Loretta Young but young people don't (and for those who are
older, who remembers or cares about Gloria Swanson as a sex goddess of the
1920s, for example). The same can be said of any other type of famous person.
Today, some of us remember a few notable things that Ike did, for instance,
but as we go back further, say, to William Howard Taft, we remember or care
little or nothing about his life and the issues faced by that generation (even
more so as we recede further - Franklin Pierce anyone?). Indeed, this is one
of the problems of getting older. As our prime fades, and as things move on,
fewer and fewer people care about what we did with our life's struggles and we
can feel progressively marginalized and isolated as we enter into our 60s,
70s, 80s, etc. Only those who are our contemporaries can reflect upon and
appreciate our life's accomplishments as they come to know us and as they
share the common experiences with us. In time, of course, people die off and
then those who relate to the remaining older people become fewer and fewer
until the isolation is nearly complete for someone who lives a really long
life. For the most part, immediate family might care but no one else does. For
the person who is 100 today, no one cares what it was like to live through
Prohibition or to have experienced talkies for the first time, or to wonder at
the marvel of air travel that no one had ever seen before or to grow up and
raise a family in the rural midwest of long ago. That time has come and gone
and we, as a relational people, just can't relate any more.

Today, I can look at old photos of my parents (both deceased) and my heart is
moved. I can do the same with photos of grandparents whom I actually knew and
can relate but with nowhere near the same intensity. But, then, I look at old
photos of my great grandparents in the old country from which my parents
ultimately emigrated and I feel nothing - it is just some bearded guy posing
for a picture in some little hut from a distant land and a distant time.

I love the study of history precisely because it helps bring to life how
people lived and dealt with the challenges of their generation, no matter how
distant from ours. But most of the events of humanity are forever buried in
history in a way that they can never be known. Think of all the millions of
people from the 1830s, for example, who lived and died while facing many of
the same issues we do today - how am I going to make something of myself? how
do I find my life's mate? where do I want to live? do I want to go to school
and what should I study? how do I try to change my world for the better? For
all those lives, the events and the subsequent memories were as vivid as could
be as the lives were lived out and as a generation or two that knew those
people remembered or were told stories about what they had done. But, given
the passage of enough time, none of this matters one whit to those who live
today. Now, nearly two centuries later, only a few high points of that era are
remembered and often only from a sterile textbook type of memory (important
historical "facts" in a book) about which few people care.

Will a perpetual digital presence on the web change any of this over time? Of
course, it can help make vivid the lives of those we knew or directly remember
from our lives and those of our contemporaries. It can lessen the "out of
sight, out of mind" mode of forgetfulness and make us more easily appreciate
those whom we knew and loved or respected while they lived. In this sense, the
impact can be profound and particularly so concerning those closest to us in
life - it is like my being moved by looking at the old photos of my parents,
potentially magnified many times over in having been enriched by stories,
anecdotes, written memorabilia, etc. not only from immediate family members
but also from friends, acquaintances, and others. What a rich treasure trove
this might be to help us remember and honor the memory of those to whom we
related and all the more so the closer they were to us in life.

But what will thousands or millions of such narratives mean to those who live
two centuries from today looking back on it all. Yes, it might be a rich vein
for historians trying to identify broader trends and issues of our era but
does it matter beyond that? In other words, would we even care to remember the
stories of millions of persons with whom we are unconnected in every way, even
if they were ancestors in our direct family line? I don't know but I would
suspect that this would be much like looking at that old photo of my great
grandparents in the old country. It might be interesting for a passing glance
but nothing more. As relational people, it is hard to relate to those with
whom we have no connection (or at least very little connection), and the
memories of those lives in this sense would be relevant only for a time, i.e.,
as long as those who could relate still lived.

All this is another way of saying that, in time, the mark we make in this
world will inevitably fade. And, for this reason, I doubt that it can be
captured by online digital preservation in any way that will prove meaningful
beyond the lives of our contemporaries.

All that said, this is a beautiful idea and this piece is a thoughtful
evocation of its possibilities. It just can't be overstretched to achieve a
goal that is, in my view, beyond the limits of human capacity. We can all be
memorialized to a point but the limit is bound by those who remember being
able to relate to who we were and what we did. At some point, that connection
breaks and the memories fade, no matter how well those lives may be documented
online.

~~~
Goosey
" We make idols of celebrities in our generation but what of the past
generation or two." Consider the insane amount of people who are considered
extremely influential in their respective fields/disciplines/arts only AFTER
they pass away. I don't know if that is a trend that will continue into the
future, but I certainly hope so.

~~~
kiba
There will be people who are obscure to history, for all the right reasons,
and for all the wrong reasons.

------
petervandijck
I don't see why my loved ones need to be on the internet.

If they have to be, the main value is long-term-ness. Whatever info/pictures I
put out there, I'd likely want that to still be there in 10, 20, 50 years.
Nobody has done that type of long-termness well, so far, that I know off.

What I might want to put online is their digital archive: the stuff they chose
to share online while alive, archived for a long time.

~~~
Be_Silly
No in the internet domain or electronic, but Wilhelm Research have epic
amounts of data on film longevity, and you can download freely their 800page
illustrated history / report book which is awesome. You find out things like
Kodak knowingly sold crappy film stock that would fade to uselessness within a
few years, which explains why there's so many 70's and 80's vintage movies no-
onecan get on DVD, because the originals are spoiled short of painstaking and
hugely expensive restoration. Can't remember if this applied to consumer film,
but Kodak sure lost their reputation bad, letting Fujifilm grab the market.

Side note: the true losses i've experienced of family records were
precipitated by ignorant relatives disposing of things they had no right to.
My only ever data loss was also caused by carelesness or malice by a third
party.

As a direct result of this i realy got into learning about everything from
backup tape wear to filw system formats, data integrity. I suppose that might
be a silver lining, certainly i am able to use what i learned most weeks for
work.

But my real concern is how little people understand bit-rot and data integrity
in general for storage. My view is nothing is yet truly archival quality. One
of the things i learned was the way careful movie studios (used to?) separate
their color originals into monochrome R,G,B reels, because the mono stock
lasts so much longer, doesn't fade. Also i learned about Technicolor, which
uses organic dyes which don't fade or hardly fade. But the original
technicolor process is no longer used, apparently the last few lab setups were
sold to China. I think China maybe got a good deal, and i wonder if we won't
see it making a revival? That thought came courtesy of Andy Grove's recent
interview where he observes that if we throw the "low tech" jobs away to other
ambitious countries, eventually they innovate with it, like RCA / Westinghouse
televisions and then Sony who then outsoruced to Korea who are the present hib
of plasmas / lcds and so on.

What i mean is, don't outsource your family records and memories. Write stuff
on paper.Print digital picstures on the best current Epson or Canon ink and
put them in a dry dark place. Put a lock on it or put it under a attorney
managed storage contract so your kids can get access but not throw it away in
a fit of upset or stupidity.

As for this service, i admit i've not read much on their site, but where is
the front and center discussion of how they've addressed the myriad ways data
gets lost / corrupted?

I looked hard at trying to start a service similar to this, but not with the
same angle. No way could i make the numbers work on a "freemium" model. Some
website outfits do diligent archive style backup for pro photogs, and they
charge very serious amounts of money, and i couldn't get any of those on
record as to storage policies. It's not just having ZFS, but every app which
touches your data better be doing checksums and more, and when i modelled my
own idea, i had a 4 - tier multi redundant system that extensively used WORM
tape for anything flagged "archive". The numbers got hard at the point the
equipment his EOL or cumulative MTBF required preventative reinvestment. I was
looking hard at trying to find insurance cover so that, should three data
centers all fail, i could at least give some financial condolence to customers
/ cover lawsuits, but never got right at the kind of person who could quote
me. I suppose that would be "cat risk" and i'd need a big "RE" not a front
line insurer, but that was only part of my problem. If data is truly private -
it might be of a marriage which went wrong and you only want those records to
be available after a decent amount of time has passed - you need to build a
fairly sensible, but necessarily complex, security model. Then there's the
simpler fun of where to store keys, and how do you make any of this easy to
use . .

I fear that projects like this risk more tears than they solve problems. The
obituary thing is just a gimmick. What print paper runs an obit (for real,not
as a paid insertion) without someoe caring to contact them and explain why
this person was significant. Not only that but the few obits of friends of
mine had to be written on a volunteer basis, even for pretty well known
people, because the paper (a major national) allocated no budget for that
beyond very high profile people.

I don't want to simply knock this project, because it's an interesting idea,
but i think it's flawed and fragile. I don't want to place trust with a
faddish organisation when, heck, i've been burned by trusted family and weak
courts and straight up accidents and worst of all, couldn't care less
attitudes. Only you care enough to do this. If we all did, maybe family life
would get a lot nicer for some of us?

Just a thought. Best to all.

~~~
PhotoGuy
"Organic dyes" have nothing to do with Technicolor print stability. All films
and most colorants (in ink jet, dye transfer, etc.) use organic dyes or
organic pigments. What made old Technicolor so stable was that it could
produce silver separations of the three primary color records, and it was the
silver negatives, which are extremely stable, that can be used to strike new
color prints (with their organic dyes). Trouble is, this is a very expensive
process. Disney used it for its animated features which it intended to release
again and again over many decades. Most studios went for the much less
expensive dye originals which are less stable, especially if poorly processed
or stored. (New viewing prints can be struck from properly stored master
prints.) Modern color movie films are quite stable (science marches on), which
is largely why the costly Technicolor separation process gradually
disappeared.

Digital systems pose their own problems, of course. There's media obsolescene
(8-inch floppies, anyone?), digital integrity (bit drift, etc.), and media
integrity (oops, that tape broke again). Much of what keeps archivists busy is
deciding protocols for the continuous migration of images from one generation
of media to another.

For really good up to date information on image permanence, I recommend the
independent, non-profit (unlike Wilhelm) Image Permanence Institute at the
Rochester Institute of Technology. They've got some excellent, free downloads
on both the basics and the advanced stuff. Wilhelm's book may be free, but
it's very old and out of date. <http://www.imagepermanenceinstitute.org/>

------
patio11
I like Gary Vaderchuck's take on this: everything we do today will be recorded
for the benefits of our grandkids. Soon enough, this will be essentially non-
optional. Act accordingly.

This is a sea change in just the last few years, too -- I lost everything I
wrote in college with the exception of one paper, but now with Dropbox I'm
likely to never lose anything I create ever again.

In a few decades I'll probably need a personal archivist to sift through for
the good bits and give my grandkids something with a narrative to it.

~~~
dot
Your last sentence. There's a million dollars there.

------
willwagner
I really like this idea and execution. Really nice work!

I think a good feature to add would be some sort of kiosk mode that could be
used during a wake or reception by just putting a web browser on one of your
pages and it would rotate through photos, guestbook entries, etc. like a slide
show but would drop in to the guestbook with a mouse click and go back to the
slideshow after the page went idle for a while.

Another good feature would be a way for people to buy coffee-table books of a
site to save as a personal memory. I'm certain with some effort and
partnerships with a publisher, you could create a well designed book
automatically from the data you have. I put together a video montage of my
father after he passed away and having something tangible that you can have of
a loved one is always comforting.

Finally as a way to generate traffic, I'd consider building some killer
example sites of celebrities as soon as the news breaks of some celebrity's
passing.

~~~
jessep
I agree with all of these suggestions. The Kiosk mode strikes me as
particularly creative and insightful. There's a startup that let's people
create a wedding guestbook with video snips people record on a laptop, that'd
be an awesome thing, people teliing stories about the deceased into a camera
and aggregating them into a video.

------
Bretthuneycutt
Hi all, We'd love to have your feedback or comments. If you'd like our help in
setting up a profile, please get in touch at contact@1000memories.com Thanks,
Brett, Rudy and Jonathan

~~~
jessep
It looks really nice. Small comment: On the main page for a memorial, when the
box pops up asking if I know the person, it says "show your support". I found
that phrasing a little odd, less heartfelt than I'd expect. I'd change it to
'show your love'.

~~~
hugh3
"Love" might be a little too strong for people who were only marginally
connected to the deceased.

~~~
aberman
Show your caring?

~~~
hugh3
I don't like "caring" as a noun much. I think "support" is good -- it means
"emotional support for the family", not "I support this dead dude, he was
cool".

------
tomjen3
My digital strategy? Dry my eyes with two pieces of cloth?

On the serious side of things, I guess this would be useful for some people
but when I read the article, I assumed it was about how you would notify
friends and family online - I doubt that many young people read the arbituary
in the local newspaper often enough for you to find them there.

------
keltex
"They’ll develop their business model over time".

That would be a little scary to me as an investor.

~~~
hugh3
So would the fact that they have (sensible) ethical issues about extracting
money from grieving relatives.

~~~
pg
As an investor, I like that. I think this is a business where it's a real
competitive advantage not to be jerks.

~~~
Be_Silly
Sure, but i'd rather know how that's codified into business rules and
policies. I try to do that for my own company. People change, staff moves,
even if infrequently, you get a new CEO . . . qualifying this as a personal
trait isn't much substance in my book. It's not concrete, even if it's an
honorable intention. Sorry, but i don't see how you hinge a business plan on
merely an intention to play nice. Google codified their original intent
roughly as not doing crappy flashy adverts, so that's a tangible. But some
processes are never immediately visible to customers, and how you you apply
attitude as a criteria to that? If you run a shop which prides itself on
exceptional behaviour (distinct from a market around you where you see values
are a real reason hindering growth) is it not reassuring to try at leat to
find some measurables? One might manage a lot of this in interview for new
hires, or you might insist on a certain policy regards customer support, such
as never giving a stonewall answer per a policy but giving your reps the power
to look into a problem. What i'm suggestig is you can do wonders with company
culture if you nurture it like a first born, but are there not times when this
can be checked against behaviour more thoroughly? I'm thinking about the
number of times my cellular reps promise me, voice and in writing, they'll fix
a billing glitch, and not once have they come through. That's possibly
measurable, as an example. As in "why does customer x contact us so much?"

------
benatkin
The sample site, a memorial to a relative of one of the founders, is
fantastic. Great execution. I don't like the lack of a business model, though.
I think it would be better if they charged a reasonable amount up-front, that
included the ability to export all of the content in a nice format.

I don't like where TechCrunch went with it. They called Legacy's "cash
extraction procedures" _cheesy_. I don't think that's the right word for it. I
think, as described by the article, _unethical_ would be the right word.

I looked at Respectance's pricing. It seems they make it so the person who
create the site and who sponsor it can be different people.

I don't see great memorials starting like this: A) someone decides to create a
site, but doesn't want to put too much into it B) the community rallies around
it C) a generous member of the community forks over the cash. I think more
often, great things are created by people who care about it. Like the sample
site. The founder put a lot of effort into making his loved one's site great.
I'm sure in the face of that, $59 or so wouldn't have stopped him.

As for free trials, I don't really think they're appropriate. I think it's
what makes it feel like "cash extraction" rather than paying for a valuable
service. I think that the only free trial that's needed is the ability to
create a site, and pay a one-time fee to get it published, and to keep it
online, accepting contributed content, and with an export tool.

------
qeorge
Small bug:

On this page, there's an "unrendered" &mdash;

<http://1000memories.com/a/saldebruno/stories>

~~~
Bretthuneycutt
Good spot. We've fixed it. Thanks, George.

------
teye
Could they not have gotten a better domain? Also, the Bad Religion song lyrics
are beating them in search results.

Great concept, good execution.

~~~
Bretthuneycutt
Thanks for the compliments, Teye. We're working on SEO -- doing a lot better
after yesterday's traffic. If there's something obvious we're not doing to
improve our results, please let us know! Thanks.

------
contagionhealth
Would love to see a partnership with Legacy Locker here:
<http://legacylocker.com/>

------
endlessvoid94
How do I change the main image for the page after I've uploaded other photos?

~~~
Bretthuneycutt
You can click the "Edit" button at the bottom of any memorial page. Please
email me directly if you have any questions or suggestions.

------
hermanthegerman
Is it ok to have a personal homepage there ?

I've been looking for a online community where the other users don't annoy me
for quite a while.

------
calvinfr
Looking forward to some good competition! We just launched as well (but before
you guys) - we're also free - wwww.people2remember.com Amazing similarities
between your product and ours - though I must admit your UI is very clean and
concise. Nicely done!

------
innovate
nice. solid execution on a great concept.

------
aneth
Can you really say "forever" on $20,000 of YC funding? Is there a foundation
set up to host the site in the likely event that investors balk? Are you
spending your YC funds on offsite backups and some sort of forever RAID?

I'd much rather trust the long term hosting of my memories to a company that
is around for the long haul like Wordpress or Google, or one of many other
companies with products that aren't marketed for this purpose, but provide
similar (actually a lot more) functionality.

~~~
mleonhard
I'm creating RestBackup.com right now and my next project will probably be
RestArchive.com. I'm interested in the problem of data archival for regular
people. I've been thinking about the problem of business continuity. One
possible solution to the problem is to endow a trust to maintain the archive
in the event that the business fails. I'd love to hear what the HN community
thinks about this.

