
Anti-Application video for YC120 - puzza007
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px9OjW7GB0Q
======
keiferski
I really don't understand the backlash. It's a simple, 3-question application
designed (presumably) to find ambitious people that, for whatever reason,
don't have access to the YC network. It's not a treatise on why "family isn't
important" or "why you should throw away everything to chase the Silicon
Valley dream".

If your response to these questions is to make an angry 4-minute video ranting
about how these questions indicate a "lust for Mammon", perhaps consider if
you are the intended audience.

I'm sorry, but I have zero association with Silicon Valley or Y Combinator and
I find this video completely absurd.

------
haberman
If a potential investor asks you basic questions about your ambitions and you
interpret it as "offensive" and "an attack on Silicon Valley", and you end up
at William Shockley, I think that says more about you than them.

Bryan is clearly passionate about his beliefs, which probably works great for
people who share them. Sometimes I wonder if 2013 Bryan
([https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Ben-Noordhuis-decide-to-
leave-...](https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Ben-Noordhuis-decide-to-leave-Node-
js-development)) would have fired 1996 Bryan
([https://web.archive.org/web/20170328074611/http://www.cryptn...](https://web.archive.org/web/20170328074611/http://www.cryptnet.net/mirrors/texts/kissedagirl.html))

~~~
Sir_Cmpwn
Digging up people's distant pasts to use as ammunition against them in the
present is a dick move. I don't know anything about Bryan, and I think this
particular video is so-so on its own merits, but I don't think that it's
appropriate to bring up an email he sent in 1996 to dismiss his arguments.

~~~
haberman
I would completely agree with you except that this person has made a point of
being a zero-tolerance firebrand instead of extending charity and a
presumption of good faith. I think it is fair to highlight the hypocrisy of
that.

I think we all deserve the benefit of the doubt, and it has made me angry when
I've seen Bryan judge others so harshly and unfairly, just as it made me angry
when I saw the way he treated David Miller in 1996. For what it's worth I
didn't "dig up" anything, I remember these incidents from around the time they
happened.

It's particularly disheartening for me because I have huge respect for his
engineering skills. DTrace is extremely impressive work.

------
tomhoward
In all his rage I think Bryan misses the point that people who are doing
valuable work in teams already have access to support networks and have
achieved some kind of “insider” status - by virtue of the very fact that
they’re doing valuable work in teams.

Such people can already launch startups, receive mentorship, raise funding,
apply to YC, etc.

As I understand it, YC120 is specifically looking for people who aren’t
already connected to groups/networks who can help them thrive, and the program
is wholly designed to connect them to others so new teams of capable people
can form.

As for the obituary question: isn’t it obvious that the whole point of this
question is to establish that the applicant has noble, benevolent ambitions?

------
warp_factor
I love Bryan Cantrill for being that classy bad-ass engineer with so much
integrity.

His talk on companies principles is a must-watch:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=9QMGAtxUlAc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=9QMGAtxUlAc)

~~~
dm3730
> I love Bryan Cantrill for being that classy bad-ass engineer with so much
> integrity.

I have never worked with Bryan. What's the general opinion about Valerie's
statements about working with him.

[https://blog.valerieaurora.org/2016/10/22/why-i-wont-be-
atte...](https://blog.valerieaurora.org/2016/10/22/why-i-wont-be-attending-
systems-we-love/)

[https://blog.valerieaurora.org/2018/07/01/bryan-cantrill-
has...](https://blog.valerieaurora.org/2018/07/01/bryan-cantrill-has-been-
accused-of-verbal-abuse-by-at-least-seven-people/)

~~~
mcny
I'm not trying to defend Bryan Cantrill. Far from it.

I think people in silicon valley often forget how privileged they are. The
application question is basically asking

What have you personally done in your life? Why should we give you a chance? I
think Bryan Cantrill suffers from a lack of perspective. Like if you ask
Taylor Swift about how to be a successful artist and she says just follow your
dreams and everything will fall into place, I imagine Bryan hasn't had to
justify his personal contributions anywhere in a long time likely because they
are just obvious and do easy to see. Now compare that to someone like me who
has only worked on line of business applications. I try to be honest which in
my mind sounds like I'm being humble but from the other side it just sounds
like I'm unaccomplished and have poor listening/comprehension skills.

In any case, I think this thread needs to be less about Bryan Cantrill and
more about YC.

Bryan Cantrill's Wikipedia page says he asked a kernel developer if he had
ever kissed a girl as a one line reply to a technical discussion. My instinct
whenever I hear accusations like those by Valerie is to say maybe there's a
different perspective but I don't think there is one in this case. Regardless
of all this (and his association with a company that stupidly offers lifetime
hosting to paying members and later yanks it which is essentially fraud), I
think the arguments he makes stand on their own. These aren't arguments I
could make because I'm a nobody but I'm glad someone is making regardless of
how flawed they are.

~~~
eurticket
> if you ask Taylor Swift about how to be a successful artist and she says

Just have your father buy a record label.

> I think Bryan Cantrill suffers from a lack of perspective.

I think it could be interpreted in a lot of ways, god forbid anyone criticize
the language and connotations in YCs questions. The questions asked so
broadly/abstractly open them up for this type of thing and if there are
problems more people should speak up, until there are better questions being
asked. This can all still happen while also still loving what YC can provide.

> These aren't arguments I could make because I'm a nobody

This is exactly why you should express how you feel about these things, as
much as you also want the conversation to be less about Bryan and more about
YC, you're basically saying you have the same passionate nature but choose to
be silent. And if you did speak up, it would be without the bulk amount of
negative attention if you were wrong, but all the benefit if you provide
something of value and were right.

------
santoriv
I would agree with him that the last couple of questions are BS, but perhaps
the point of it is to evaluate how good you are at convincingly BSing your way
through a situation?

Most people don't have the luxury of being brilliant or well-known enough to
be able to be unapologetically blunt all of the time.

Especially when dealing with customers and/or investors.

------
nopinsight
The vast majority of cities in the world are nowhere _near_ Silicon Valley in
terms of the availability of talent, drive, deep technical expertise, and
supportive environment. This is even more true in developing countries where
over 80% of the world’s population live.

Allowing passionate people outside of Silicon Valley the opportunity to meet
others who might share their passion and have complementary skills, form
connections, and possibly find matching teammates to work on challenging
projects together is a good reason for supporting YC120.

------
sbr464
I realize this is a touchy subject, but here goes:

I especially appreciate how there is no talk of innovation or ideas, which in
my mind, is what YC stands for. Instead (interpreted as an outsider), a rant
on unfamiliar, incumbent (sf?) issues/frustrations. Somewhat obvious that YC
is looking for new blood.

~~~
david927
_Somewhat obvious that YC is looking for new blood._

Definitely, and it should, otherwise it won't outlast the next (looming)
market correction. And I don't mind YC trying a new tack; I mind that they
still don't get it. Bryan is right. True innovators care only about the
problem and their ideas. Few who are concerned about what their obit will say
will ever do anything great.

You can fund innovation or you can make money off of previous innovation.
Silicon Valley has been doing the latter for so long that it has forgotten
that the former is even possible.

------
davej
Wow, that was an extremely eloquent 4 minute piece to camera. Seems a little
misplaced though. YC 120 seems to be about bringing people together who
haven't already worked with great teams in SF. It seems to be for those with
enthusiasm, ideas, energy, passion and drive but perhaps not a pre-existing
network and connections.

I would still consider accepting him on the strength of this video because he
seems like he'd be an interesting guy to throw in the mixing pot. And perhaps
that's the intention of this video.

------
TAForObvReasons
Scott McNealy's one-sentence summary of Sun is truly something we should all
want in our obituaries:

> kicked butt, had fun, didn't cheat, loved our customers and changed
> computing forever

------
JustSomeNobody
"What do you want your obituary to say?"

Is this really one of the questions?

So, it's funny, I tell people there's usually two kinds of people. Those that
want to be a <X> and those who want to have been an <X>. The former enjoys the
journey. The latter wants to skip to the end. This question seems like it is
targeting the latter group. Shouldn't YC be trying to target the former?

~~~
michaelt
Not sure I see the distinction here?

I mean, if you want to invent a flying car, if successful you'll be the
inventor of the flying car, and your obituary will say so.

The question just seems like a roundabout way of asking "Tell us how your
startup idea is going get huge and stay huge for ages"

~~~
JustSomeNobody
I thought I was pretty clear. Some people want to skip the being and go
straight to have been. They want to be remembered as being Stephen King, but
they don't want to put in the effort of writing on a consistent enough basis
to actually _be_ Stephen King. They're the type who always has some plan their
working on, but really they aren't.

> "Tell us how your startup idea is going get huge and stay huge for ages"

Then ask _that_ question.

------
chriselles
Perhaps the application questions could have been further refined.

But perhaps the questions are intended to raise some people’s hackles.

I get temporarily disappointed every time I’m declined by YC, but I appreciate
what they are trying to do in a number of ways:

Sharing everything(well, most things) they have learned with complete
transparency.

Constantly talking down Seed/Series A valuations in aggregate because they see
the crazy.

Experimenting with universal basic income(UBI) using their own money in what
appears to me as an attempt to apply the scientific method to public policy
lobbying.

So I can excuse YC for some application questions that might come across as
pretentious or more likely to appeal to the self aggrandizing.

Two thins I’d like to see with YC120 are:

1) livestream the weekend as it could help with building attendees networks

2) Use YC120 applicant/application pool(with applicants permission) with data
anonymised as an experiment on applicants/applications.

------
caseymarquis
Question 2 is "What have you done so far that shows your potential for
greatness, adjusted for whatever life circumstances you were born into?" TBH,
I'm not sure I would want a ticket to the narcissist convention that question
implies. The obituary question is a great question IMO.

~~~
nerflad
The only way I could comfortably answer that question is "Irrespective of
greatness or potential for it, here's a list of projects I've done/been
involved in and am proud of:".

The "adjusted for privilege" bit seems to be trying to discourage people from
talking about where they went to college. It is definitely an awkward question
and I think Bryan was right to skewer it.

------
pluto9
This is needelessly contrarian. Really, he's offended because someone implied
that individuals could be great? They never said teams couldn't be, but unless
he's planning to bring his team of kernel developers from 15 years ago to YC,
the question is about him, not them. In any case, I'm sure it would be
acceptable, maybe even expected, to credit his team when talking about his
accomplishments. No need to be "offended".

"The implication here is that my obituary should say I was at the YC 120".

I see no reason to think this. Does he assume YCers are a bunch of heartless
workaholics who value professional accomplishment above all else, things like
family and community be damned? This is a "get to know you" type question.
They want to know what's important to you. That's all.

I also find the grandiloquence about his heroism in "standing up for Silicon
Valley" pretty ironic after he put so much effort into showing how humble he
was in the first question.

I don't know what was going through this guy's head, but the sole function of
this video seems to be as a soapbox to talk about what a man of integrity he
is.

------
nudpiedo
Everyone knows there is a tone of bullshit at time to recruit, but recruiters,
and human resources in general, need to justify their job and authority based
on psychological assumptions put out of context. Or even just pure bias.

The range of valid people for a job or a task is always very wide, and they
with they could somehow purge the bottom of the applicant pools. The truth is
that they have no idea because even the less innovative person, with some
apparent red flags, given the right circumstances, could surpass the people
who apparently qualified better.

It's true that attitude is very important, but even people working only for a
salary can innovate, alone or in team, and accidentally ending up doing
something greater than expected. In the other hand, why is this obsession of
linking innovation with business success? Steve Jobs damaged the IT culture
way too much, and he even wasn't the mythological creature commonly believed.

P.D. Diversity of thought, personality and attitude... does this diversity
matter as well?

------
Jabbles
Could we have a summary for people that are out of the loop please?

------
z3t4
If there is anything you need as a founder it is self confidence. Bryan is
right that it takes teamwork to do great things, but first you need to
convince others to follow your lead. People with good self confidence
contribute success to themselves and failure because of things outside their
reach. It however helps to have a healthy dose of self awareness, and have
both feet on the ground (metaphorically).

------
dman
How do we get Bryan his own TV/Netflix show? There hasn’t been a video from
him that I did not watch all the way to the end.

------
AJRF
This is what perspective looks like

------
dpflan
Is this a response to highlight issues with the application or a response to
applying and not getting accepted or applying and getting accepted (but
rejecting on principle?)?

~~~
ardy42
> Is this a response to highlight issues with the application or a response to
> applying and not getting accepted or applying and getting accepted (but
> rejecting on principle?)?

The former. This is a guy who already has a lot of accomplishments under his
belt, he seems more of a peer of YC than someone who's ever needed to seek
it's approval.

------
eaenki
That’s so stupid (this video). What’s the point of this? A cringeworthy
individual who thinks he’s so right about how the questions of an application
are so wrong. Really?

~~~
kgraves
You're right, I stopped watching for about 20 seconds in, it was cringe-
inducing.

------
Jach
Great individuals exist, they can do humanity-advancing feats of greatness
essentially by themselves. Put a bunch of greats together though, and you can
get truly amazing things not possible from a single mind, and what's more
create an environment for maximal expression of each individual's greatness.

If YC's goal here is to try and bring together great (or potentially great)
individuals, that's fine, but perhaps there are better approaches.[0] Perhaps
it's a bad approach having the second and third questions as they are when
they're going to filter out great people like Bryan. The second question's
qualifier for "life circumstances" is such a cop-out too... Yes it's "great"
if you came up from nothing and somehow managed to go to college and get a
nice well-paying stable job, surpassing the achievements of at least your
ancestors in living memory, but that isn't actually greatness.

On the other hand maybe the two bad questions are by design, Google interview
style, trying to weed out false positives for whatever their goal is no matter
the (potentially counterfactual) false negatives. It trivially filters me out
correctly; I have no potential for greatness, and in the best case I don't
plan on dying so there'd be no obituary.

[0] Might I suggest a method that would probably be more effective, at least
for collecting potentially great scientists, Asimov's Sword.
([http://www.gwern.net/docs/culture/1963-asimov](http://www.gwern.net/docs/culture/1963-asimov))
Target 10-to-15-year-olds already reading good sci-fi.

Edit: a reply highlighted some ambiguity in my usage of "like Bryan" but they
deleted it before I replied back.. here's clearing it up anyway.

YC120's phrasing is a problem in filtering out literally Bryan from the 20 if
they had plans to ask him, but I was more aiming to describe filtering out
people like Bryan from the 100 based on having similar responses.

I knew a guy in high school with a good supply of "intelligence, drive and
vision" who had started working with a local university team around something
to do with MEMS fabrication. Let's assume YC120 if it was around then would
have been interested to have him as part of the 100, and that it'd be useful
to him to expand his network beyond that university or academia in general for
the grand possibility of getting a group together in the future to do for MEMS
what Fairchild Semiconductor did for semiconductors. That sort of vision is
all pointless if he were to have a similar reaction to Bryan's or other
commenters here, either due to the second question giving off vibes of joining
a group of narcissists or the example interests on the page (gene editing,
solving physics, etc.) pointing exclusively at a particular subset of SV's
fashions. Either he'd filter himself or maybe the reactions are on to
something and an earnest application would be filtered by YC for insufficient
alignment on greatness potential or SV-compatible interests.

------
snickmy
I'm not a VC, but I'd be happy to give this guy the same amount of money that
YC gives to their startups. Seriously.

------
bob_theslob646
Apparently this guy is a dick.

[https://blog.valerieaurora.org/2018/07/01/bryan-cantrill-
has...](https://blog.valerieaurora.org/2018/07/01/bryan-cantrill-has-been-
accused-of-verbal-abuse-by-at-least-seven-people/)

Also, why does he deserve a Wikipedia page?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryan_Cantrill](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryan_Cantrill)

~~~
kiddico
Does being a dick remove someone from history?

Primary contributors to projects smaller than DTrace have wiki pages, and I
bet at least a few of them are dicks. I suppose wipe those out too.

