
Not quite a car, not quite a motorcycle: a vehicle built for one - harambaebae69
https://thesunbest.com/not-quite-a-car-not-quite-a-motorcycle-a-vehicle-built-for-one/
======
nsl73
I’d rather have a motorcycle. Motorcycles are faster, cheaper, can carry about
the same amount of cargo, and 100 miles on a charge is enough to give me range
anxiety.

I’d rather have a car. I often need to carry passengers, carry large or heavy
things, and a new economy car is in the same ballpark price.

Who is this really for? I don’t see many people buying this as their only
personal transportation if it only travels 100 miles on a charge and can’t
take a passenger. It’s price too high and isn’t fun enough to be considered a
recreational purchase.

~~~
01100011
I'd rather not have a motorcycle. I'd rather not have to suit up in special
clothing to try and reduce the chances of injury from accidents which, from
talking to motorcycle riding friends, seem to be strangely more common than
accidents in cars.

I'd rather not have a car for my daily commute. Driving my large family
vehicle for my job is wasteful and inefficient. I almost never need to carry
anything large or heavy on my daily commute. I work less than 20 miles from
home. I don't need a daily commuter vehicle with more than 2.5x this range.

I would love to buy a small electric vehicle, but the cost is prohibitive. A
small vehicle, safer than a motorcycle and more idiot proof, would be perfect
to augment my existing transportation options.

~~~
globular-toast
> I'd rather not have a motorcycle. I'd rather not have to suit up in special
> clothing to try and reduce the chances of injury from accidents which, from
> talking to motorcycle riding friends, seem to be strangely more common than
> accidents in cars.

It shouldn't be a mystery why motorcycle accidents are more common. A
superbike like a Yamaha R1 is capable of 0-100mph in less than 6 seconds, all
in first gear. Ownership of an R1 is within the reach of many under 25s and
most enthusiastic under 30s. Contrast that with a supercar which, for most
people, will be out of reach until much later in life, if ever, and even then
is such a big investment that most just sit around in air-conditioned garages
rather than hitting the B-roads of England every Sunday morning.

None of that means that commuting on a more sensible motorcycle is
particularly dangerous in the grand scheme of things.

~~~
m-ee
I ride, and know a lot of people who do, and the amount of injuries from road
debris or cars turning left without looking dwarf the crashes from just going
too fast. This might be regional though, most places don’t have Bay Area
traffic.

~~~
http-teapot
That’s how I got my first and last accident. Double parked car made a U-turn
in a commercial street without signaling. My front tire got caught under his
car, bringing me to a complete stop and flipping me over. I was only doing
15mph.

That ended it for me, bike was totaled, wife decided I stopped and I had no
intention in getting involved in a more serious accident. I miss riding, I
miss the sensation of freedom.

~~~
globular-toast
> wife decided I stopped

> I miss the sensation of freedom

I'm not surprised.

------
ofrzeta
There's also the Renault Twizy that is readily available and significantly
cheaper (starting at 7000 Euro). Actually even the regular electric car by
Seat (Mii) is much cheaper than the Electrameccanica.

~~~
vladvasiliu
I wonder why no one mentioned the Smart. Here in Europe they're quite popular
in dense cities. One advantage is they can be parked sideways on most streets,
which not only helps with finding a spot but is also easier.

According to Wikipedia[0], a Smart is actually shorter and it can also be
electric.

This actually has quite a few shortcomings compared to a Smart:

* Cannot carry a passenger

* Requires a motorcycle license, which many people might not have

* Technically a motorcycle, so safety standards may not be up to par

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_Fortwo#Third_generation_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_Fortwo#Third_generation_\(Build_series_C453,_A453,_2014%E2%80%93present\)_\(2014-2019:_North_America\))

~~~
shawabawa3
> One advantage is they can be parked sideways on most streets

They advertised this but in reality it's rarely possible. They are 2.5m long
and most cars in Europe are <2m wide.

E.g. in the UK standard parking is 2.4m wide so a smart sticks out

~~~
vladvasiliu
Can't speak for the UK, but I often see Smarts parked sideways around Paris.
The car is indeed longer than the spaces are large, but a factor that helps a
lot is that regular cars are rarely parked nicely inside the lines. Which
means that, in practice, the sideways Smart doesn't stick out from the other
cars.

~~~
drcongo
I see them parked sideways in London all the time.

~~~
TomMarius
Same in Prague.

~~~
alberto_ol
never seen in Italy

------
keenmaster
A single occupancy car will be more commercially lucrative once we have full
self-driving technology. If you hail a self-driving cab for yourself, the
fleet will send a single-occupancy car. If you’re with a few others, it’ll
send a sedan. Etc...all under a tiered subscription model. Not sending a sedan
every time saves on hardware, electricity, and maintenance costs. Some of the
savings would in turn be passed onto the consumer. The single occupancy car
will also be more safe at that point, because it’ll only drive on lanes
dedicated to self-driving vehicles.

~~~
J0_k3r
we have self-driving cars already, they're called trains

~~~
Talanes
Show me a train that can show up at my grandmother's door and drop her at the
doctor's.

~~~
izacus
Swiss somehow manage to use trains in massive numbers even if grandmothers
need car assistance occasionally. You don't need to poison the atmosphere
every day with a car on your commute just because your grandmother might need
a pick her up for her doctors checkup (having a medical facility come to pick
someone up is not an uncommon service either).

Why do some of you think that finding a wierd edge case is enough to
invalidate a whole infrastructure? This isn't derivation of a mathematical
proof where counter-example invalidates the hypothesis.

~~~
ovi256
>poison the atmosphere every day with a car

So you won't mind electric cars then, which fix that problem ?

~~~
globular-toast
They don't fix the problem. Nowhere on earth is there a sustainable electrical
grid that doesn't pollute the atmosphere, let alone one that supports electric
cars for every household. Not only that but electric cars create local
pollution in the form of particular matter from brakes and tyres and they are
worse than internal combustion engine cars in that regard.

~~~
Firadeoclus
> and they are worse than internal combustion engine cars in that regard.

Regenerative braking means less wear on the brakes, and there's no particulate
matter from the exhaust pipe. In what way are electric cars worse?

~~~
globular-toast
Regenerative braking does not replace traditional brakes. In particular it is
only really efficient at high speeds and doesn't do much in cities. EVs have
no tailpipe emissions, but particulate emissions from the tailpipe of modern
ICEs is very low anyway. But EVs do produce significantly more emissions from
the tyres and brakes compared with ICE vehicles because they are heavier.

[https://www.emissionsanalytics.com/news/2020/1/28/tyres-
not-...](https://www.emissionsanalytics.com/news/2020/1/28/tyres-not-tailpipe)

~~~
petre
It doesn't have to be 100% regenerative and an electric motor in generator
mode it's _very_ efficient at braking even at high speeds. One just needs to
redirect the excess energy that cannot be absorbed by the battery to a
controlled resistive load and trigger both mechanisms if the brake pedal is
pushed more than 30% in which case you definitely need regular brakes. Trains
already use these mechanisms.

The figures in the linked article are overblown: 5,8 g/km means one throws
away a pair of used tires every 1000 km, which is not the case since the
average tire lifecycle is 20k to 30k km.

------
gumby
Until a few months ago I owned a Corbin sparrow, which looks almost identical.
It was great; I could park it anywhere, drive it with a regular license, and
go safely on 101 in the commuter lane (the vehicle has a monocoque design --
basically you're inside a huge motorcycle helmet). It was quite convenient
until I had a kid and a very large dog.

At one point I was on a board which had (including me) three separate sparrow
owners!

------
_448
Clive Sinclair was ahead of his time then! Here is the C5:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_C5](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_C5)

Latest incarnation is at: [https://www.theengineer.co.uk/sinclair-c5-revamped-
by-sir-cl...](https://www.theengineer.co.uk/sinclair-c5-revamped-by-sir-
clives-nephew)

------
RickJWagner
Beware of the 'El Camino' trap.

I had a beautiful '72 El Camino, but it had downsides. As a good friend once
said, "It's not much of a car, but it's not much of a truck, either!"

------
geddy
These three-wheeled vehicles always make me think the same thing, "all the
risk of a motorcycle, with none of the fun." They don't exactly have good
cargo space, so storage isn't the focus - is the whole point space savings and
fuel efficiency?

A novel idea, I guess it comes down to price in this case.

EDIT: I say "fuel efficiency" referring to the fact that there are gasoline-
fueled versions of this same type of vehicle. I realize the Solo is battery
powered.

~~~
michaelt
If you can't lean into corners, can't split lanes, can't exceed 80mph, can't
do wheelies, can't make it fall over, and can't go over the handlebars in a
crash, I strongly suspect this will have better safety statistics than a
motorcycle.

~~~
spacemark
This is the comment of someone that knows very little about motorcycles. Half
the things you mention are not negatives, but positives.

~~~
michaelt
Actually I've got 8 years of riding experience.

Let's be honest, nobody _really believes_ doing wheelies, lane-splitting or
being able to go at 130mph actually make us safer. That's just what we tell
our moms when they're worried about us, and we know they won't be reassured by
the truth - which is that we know what we're doing is dangerous but we're
going to keep doing it anyway because it's fun.

~~~
geddy
There's also a huge difference between recklessly doing all of these things,
and responsibly doing these things. Not necessarily 130mph wheelies, but lane-
splitting is perfectly safe as well as practical, when done at a normal speed
and practicing good distancing. It's far more dangerous to be sandwiched
between two idiots staring at their phones in traffic.

Most if not all of the inherent danger of motorcycles is due to the existence
of cars, driven by distracted people. You can mitigate just about all risk of
riding a motorcycle. When I want to be an idiot on two wheels, I'll go
mountain biking, or downhilling, or ride my dirt bike. On the street I keep my
ass as safe as possible.

------
danans
Reminds me of the car that the character Peter Gregory drove in the show
Silicon Valley.

[https://www.thedrive.com/a-list/3171/5-times-silicon-
valley-...](https://www.thedrive.com/a-list/3171/5-times-silicon-valley-
perfectly-parodied-techie-car-culture)

~~~
sien
That's a Tango.

Apparently Sergey Brin had one.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commuter_Cars_Tango](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commuter_Cars_Tango)

~~~
m463
> 805 hp claimed.

!

~~~
mywittyname
It's trivial to put a high-power electric motor into a car. It's very
difficult to supply that motor with enough juice to actually sustain that kind
of power output for a reasonable period of time.

For reference, 800HP is 600kW.

~~~
m463
Not _that_ trivial. The Tesla P100D can break 600kw now, but has only been
able to do it in the last month or so.

------
dangus
Every product like this has to compete against a 5-year old Toyota Camry,
Corolla, Prius, you name it. It compares poorly.

Heck, it looks like it’s so expensive that it also has to compete against
brand new vehicles in the “cheapest new car possible” category. Cars like the
Nissan Versa eat this thing for lunch from a value standpoint. You could
probably even buy a brand new Mitsubishi mid-size SUV for the price and stuff
the whole family in (a bit crude compared to the competition, but it’s
reliable and repairable!)

> Priced at $18,500, it also costs about half as much as the current average
> sales price for a new passenger vehicle ($35,667 as of March 2020).

Looking at the average new sales price is almost misleading in itself. Only a
certain kind of buyer buys a new vehicle in the first place, and they’re often
led in that direction by financing - not purchase price.

Funny, a few years ago I bought a brand new Scion iA (a Mazda 2 rebadged as a
Scion, now sold as a Toyota Yaris sedan). The sticker price was $16,499,
purchased for $15,999 with dealer incentives (Scion was a no-haggle brand). It
had all the features you’d want: A/C, power windows, decent infotainment
system with Bluetooth and USB, four seats, four doors, 40MPG fuel economy, and
on top of that it was an IIHS top safety pick at the time. It gets service at
any Toyota dealership across the country.

Since it had four doors and seats I could even drive Uber/Lyft with it. Just
look at how unpopular coupes are in the 2020s (The new Mustang is a crossover
SUV! Smart left the United States! The Fiat 500 and New Beetle were
discontinued!), people just don’t sacrifice two doors to save five hundred
bucks off the sticker price anymore like they did in 1995.

------
syntaxing
The OEMs website has much better detail and pictures [1].

[1] [https://electrameccanica.com/](https://electrameccanica.com/)

~~~
beamatronic
Looks like a Corbin Sparrow

------
layoutIfNeeded
Reminds me of the Reliant Robin episode of Top Gear.
[https://youtu.be/QQh56geU0X8](https://youtu.be/QQh56geU0X8)

~~~
hardlianotion
That's amazing - thanks for the link

------
baybal2
The problem with tricycles is that they are less stable than both motorcycles
and cars.

Unlike motorcycles, tricycles can't bank on turns, or are very limited in
that.

~~~
i_am_proteus
The Yamaha Niken[0], which arrived last year, would disagree. [0]
[https://www.yamahamotorsports.com/sport-
touring/models/niken](https://www.yamahamotorsports.com/sport-
touring/models/niken)

~~~
peatmoss
My initial reaction to seeing one of those was, “hmm, that looks freaky and
weird.” I also suspect that it’ll be doomed to commercial failure.

That said, these things seem brilliant the more I reason through it. I’d guess
that nearly all the same sensations of riding a motorcycle are there with the
Nikken... all of the things that make riding a motorcycle fun like punchy
acceleration, open air, and leaning in corners. At the same time, doubling up
the front end in this way has to be a huge boon to traction. I suspect the
suspension travel on these things allows for more lean angle than I’d be
comfortable with outside of a track.

------
gshdg
This is awesome. But nobody’s going to buy it if they have to drive it sharing
the road with hulking SUVs. It’s nearly as dangerous as a motorcycle simply
because it is so small and light. The only advantage is protection from the
weather.

~~~
melling
Plenty of people ride motorcycles. Protection from the weather means year
round use. Throw in some specialized parking for small vehicles, and you have
a winning product

~~~
taneq
From experience, the main issues, aside from weather, with using a motorcycle
as your sole means of transport are:

\- You can't take an arbitrary person as passenger (they need gear and pillion
experience)

\- You can't take more than a backpack's worth of cargo (slightly expandable
with panniers)

This can't take a passenger at all, and looks like it has the same cargo
restrictions. It looks fun but I can't see it replacing a small car which
solves both of these problems, so it needs to be cheap enough to be a 'fun'
second vehicle.

~~~
cortesoft
There is also the danger factor... you are 27 times more likely to die driving
the same distance on a motorcycle as in a car. I don’t think I would want to
take that risk.

~~~
adrianN
Part of the difference could be explainable by different demographics. Maybe
motorcyclists drive more dangerously than normal even when they're in a car.

~~~
taneq
"Nobody rides a big-bore sports bike this far out into the countryside in
order to do the speed limit."

Even if people drive their cars safely, the huge difference in performance
means they're more likely to get in trouble on a bike.

------
aerodog
[http://archive.is/VtKbR](http://archive.is/VtKbR)

I got a 503 error!

------
falcolas
It looks like a more boring version of a Polaris slingshot. Which isn’t bad,
but it’s not exactly novel either.

Nor does it exist in a legislative wasteland, like the article implies. It’s
considered to be a motorcycle in most US states, with all attendant licensing
requirements.

------
aww_dang
Wondering how the performance, fuel costs and maintenance would compare to an
equivalent vehicle with a small diesel, motorcycle engine or even a modern
two-stroke. My guess is that the vehicle would be much lighter and have a
longer range with a petroleum based fuel.

Most of the 3 wheeled vehicles offered in the US are more performance minded.

Leno shows a Vanderhall 'Venice'
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X71spAvmw4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X71spAvmw4)

Doug DeMuro critiques a Polaris Slingshot
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf_O9mZcSs4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf_O9mZcSs4)

------
s_gourichon
This reminds me of the
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_C5](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_C5)

> The Sinclair C5 is a small one-person battery electric velomobile,
> technically an "electrically assisted pedal cycle".[1] It was the
> culmination of Sir Clive Sinclair's long-running interest in electric
> vehicles. Although widely described as an "electric car", Sinclair
> characterised it as a "vehicle, not a car".[2]

------
spiritplumber
My first "car" was a Piaggio Ape. In theory it was for one person. In practice
you could put 2 people in the cabin and 2 more in the back unless you were
going up hill.

~~~
alberto_ol
there is also "ape calessino", yoi can carry two passengers
[http://www.piaggiocommercialvehicles.com/it_IT/modelli/ape/a...](http://www.piaggiocommercialvehicles.com/it_IT/modelli/ape/ape-
calessino/)

------
pmorici
Reminds me of the Arcimoto FUV except made in China instead of the USA.

[https://www.arcimoto.com/](https://www.arcimoto.com/)

------
gardaani
Estonian Nobe 100 is similar, but can carry two persons. It also has a cool
retro design: [https://jalopnik.com/this-planned-electric-three-wheeler-
loo...](https://jalopnik.com/this-planned-electric-three-wheeler-looks-
fantastic-and-1818561069) [https://mynobe.com](https://mynobe.com)

------
haspok
Can it whizz through traffic jams like a moped or motorcycle? The Twizzy,
Smart et al have the exact same problem. I don't see any benefits of owning
this versus a cheap Nissan Leaf or Renault Zoe, for example.

Also, the top speed is extremely high compared to the alleged security
features. Can you survive a crash in it?

~~~
silon42
Why is #1 a problem?

~~~
AdrianB1
Because this is why I would consider it over a car, until then I continue to
ride my bike.

------
gnicholas
> _Priced at $18,500, it also costs about half as much as the current average
> sales price for a new passenger vehicle_

Well, it is significantly more limited than most new passenger vehicles, both
in terms of how many people/things it can haul and its safety when sharing the
road with vehicles that are on the road today.

~~~
syntaxing
And there's many good cars too (Corolla, Civic, etc) that you can get around
the same price here in the US...

~~~
TylerE
And crappy cars you can brand new for barely more than half that - looking at
you Mitsubishi.

------
grumple
> Having three wheels, it is not subject to the sorts of crash-testing the
> National Highway Traffic Safety Administration requires for street-legal,
> four-wheeled vehicles, but it does have a seatbelt and an integrated roll
> bar.

If they want anybody to buy these, they better test them anyway.

------
m33k44
In India there was one built by a company Reva[0]. Looks like it was not able
to gain mindshare.

[0] The founder explaining the car:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sDwGazHefM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sDwGazHefM)

------
hinkley
What the Merlin would have been, if Corbin hadn’t flamed out trying to learn
to scale up, and doing warranty repairs on the electrical systems for its
Sparrow electric three wheeler.

Looks like he tried again about 8 years ago and then failed again :/

------
donjoe
The car reminds me a lot of the Twike 5 [0] which - besides being all electric
- can be pedaled, too.

[0]: [https://twike.com/twike-5/twike-5/](https://twike.com/twike-5/twike-5/)

------
ilaksh
I feel like they should be able to sell something like that for $7000-$8000 if
they can get proper mass production.

I mean to me the price needs to go down by half or more from $17k or whatever.
At which point I might be interested.

------
loulou24
This one looked better...

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_1-litre_car](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_1-litre_car)

------
dleslie
I live close by the first purchaser of one of these. It's a wild little car,
and it looks like an absolute pleasure to drive as a personal commuting
device.

------
ScottFree
This reminds me of the Lit Motors c-1. At least they had a unique twist on the
idea.

~~~
baybal2
Though, the founder was... They wouldn't have started even if the guy got
money.

------
d--b
I wish you could plug several of these together to make a bigger vehicule.

------
lstodd
A Piaggio MP3 with some panels on top? Hmm.

------
gambiting
I remember that ages ago in Poland these were extremely popular, I used to see
them everywhere:

[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duo_(Krankenfahrzeug)](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duo_\(Krankenfahrzeug\))

Essentially a motorcycle with a cabin built around it. And yes, technically
they were meant for disabled people - but during communist times getting an
actual proper car(even a Fiat 126p) was extremely difficult - this perhaps
less so.

------
baybal2
404?

------
yodon
Reserved one :)

------
w00kie
It still takes one standard car's worth of space on the road and one standard
car's worth of parking space. This is not a solution to anything.

~~~
james_s_tayler
So it's actually probably less efficient.

