
What Should a 4 Year Old Know? (2010) - Tomte
http://magicalchildhood.wordpress.com/2010/08/31/what-should-a-4-year-old-know/
======
ianbicking
Probably like many of you I mostly hang out around middle class, highly
involved parents. But sometimes I find myself around other parents who are not
as involved. I think those other parents don't see themselves as the primary
impact on their children; they probably don't see themselves as the primary
impact even on their own lives.

Among my peer group there are kids with learning problems and disabilities and
all sorts of things. And the parents are watching and notice these problems,
and work hard to resolve the problems, and reach out (and know how to reach
out) for help. Among those other parents many kids are fine, and will develop
quite normally, but there are also kids with learning problems, disabilities,
health problems – things that won't just be fine without intervention. And
I've repeatedly seen those other parents just not notice, to resign themselves
(and thus their children) to these limits.

With this in mind I've realized a lot of rules and materials aren't directed
towards me or my peers. These "what your children should know by kindergarten"
lists are mostly to catch the kids who are in real trouble, but their parents
haven't noticed. (The parents who notice don't particularly need extra
reminders that they need to give their children extra help.) A lot of
programming and structure is intended to make up for a lack of structure for
this particular group of kids.

The involved parents of course always make this about themselves (and me too).
Because we're involved, because we're constantly asking "should I worry about
this?", because we believe we can make a difference through our effort. So the
interventions intended to bring up one set of kids instead get applied – and
applied most vigorously! – to an entirely different set of kids that probably
didn't need any of it.

And then we go on boards and talk about these lists and are shocked at how
limited the expectations of a 4-year-old are (because the lists are intended
only to catch kids in trouble) and we start to brag about our kids because
we're trying so hard to do the right thing and it's never clear if we are.

------
paganel
> That the single biggest predictor of high academic achievement and high ACT
> scores is reading to children. Not flash cards, not workbooks, not fancy
> preschools, not blinking toys or computers, but mom or dad taking the time
> every day or night (or both!) to sit and read them wonderful books.

One of my earliest (and fondest) memories is about my mother reading "The
Adventures of Tom Sawyer" to 4-year old me, even though she had had a hard day
of work behind her. It got me so hooked to stories and books that I learned to
read almost all by myself when I was five.

~~~
davidgerard
Proud moment: catching the kid up at midnight reading. I can verify it's
actually impossible to tell a child off for something you both did and totally
approve of.

~~~
Diederich
My soon to be 12 year old has been 'sneaking' books/lights into his room for
most of the last decade. It is a cool problem to have, except he tends to do
it to excess, and end up not getting much sleep. For days at a time.

Serious passion for reading, though we did end up having to 'bring the hammer
down' and shake him down for lights before bed, alas.

~~~
jtheory
I missed a lot of sleep for my books at that age. It did have some of the
negative qualities of an addiction, and _still_ can drag me in -- I broke my
toe last week, and tried reading a novel to keep my mind off the pain, and
finished it around 5am. And realized I was exhausted, and my shattered toe was
throbbing madly, and I hadn't even taken any pills for pain.

These days I mostly read serial online fiction, because it comes comes in
metered doses; e.g.
[http://pactwebserial.wordpress.com/](http://pactwebserial.wordpress.com/)

My parents quickly realized that "go to your room" was totally a non-
punishment for me, and they couldn't reasonably do anything to stop me from
reading after they'd gone to bed.

I'd suggest working with your son on flexible solutions -- it could work to
ask him to always read more advanced stuff (with more challenging vocabulary,
plot, etc.) at bedtime so that it takes more brain-work... that makes it a bit
more likely that he'll put it down when he's really tired.

The main thing (I think -- my oldest is only 5) is to see if _he himself_
thinks there's a problem, and (if so) help him hack his own lifestyle,
acknowledging that you don't know the answer, but you can help experiment &
track the results.

~~~
Diederich
Thank you for that.

It's pretty much a solved problem. We talked about it, over the course of
several years.

Mostly, for him, it's about self moderation/regulation. He's mildly autistic,
so it's super easy for him to get 'stuck' on many types of tasks/actions.

He is now able to grasp and internalize the consequences of staying up all
night reading. :)

------
AndrewKemendo
This is a big debate in my household. I look at the clear stand-out stars of
the world and it is undeniable that the vast majority of them started working
on some aspect of their talent between 4 and 6. Whether it be Golf (Tiger
woods), Violin (Itzhak Perlman), Cello (Yo-Yo Ma) Mathematics (Neumann) or
really any other field, the absolute dominant people started early - even
holding the prodigies aside.

Most importantly though these people were able to cultivate their talents in
an environment that encouraged practice and dedication.

I think the right answer is that a 4 year old should be exposed to many
different things, see what they gravitate towards and then given narrow and
focused instruction on that[1].

I used to believe in the idea of working on weaknesses, but that is only a
good way to be "well rounded" \- which is almost worthless today. If you want
to really excel in the world you need to be the best at a narrow skill and you
do that by working really hard at what you are already naturally good at from
as early as possible.

[1]I will say that people do need cross-disciplinary knowledge to really make
breakthroughs in fields so that is an important aspect that should be taken
into consideration

~~~
davidroetzel
I cannot help but wonder if you actually got what the article says. Sure,
forcing your 4 year old to practice some skill for hours each day might lead
to her becoming a "stand-out star" in that field. But will it also lead to her
becoming a confident, balanced, loving, gentle and caring person?

Will you look back to her childhood without regrets? Will she?

~~~
balabaster
It may also lead to her hating whatever it is you're forcing her to learn.

------
zwieback
Missing is the most important advice for toddler-parenting: ignore what other
toddler parents are saying. If you want advice get if from parents with older
kids.

------
buyx
_She should know that it is always okay to paint the sky orange and give cats
6 legs._

I'll be sending this to my son's preschool teacher who marks her pupils' art
with a red pen[1]. He's attends one of the "better" schools in Johannesburg.

[1] Later used to diagnose "disorders" and send kids for occupational therapy
- part of a huge and well-publicised racket in the area -the rich northern
suburbs of Johannesburg could be the OT capital of the world, looking at
diagnosis rates.

------
pitt1980
I feel like you do your kid a real diservice by worrying about what they
'need' to know, and then dictating that their time is spent learning that

time is finite, time wasted on learning what all the other 4 year olds know is
time that can't be spent learning what they actually want to be learning that
will make them a unique member of society

any competitive advantage they'll have in the future will come from them
knowing something all the other kids don't know, they'll get almost no
advantage from learning the same things every other kid had drilled into them
as well

(and that's not even accounting for how much more quickly they'll learn what
they're naturally curious about)

~~~
ramayac
Money quote right here: "Time wasted on learning what all the other 4 year
olds know is time that can't be spent learning what they actually want to
learning that will make them a unique member of society", you sir, are
absolutely right. +1

~~~
rimantas
Except it makes pretty big (and I'd say wrong) assumption, that kids want to
learn.

~~~
Tenhundfeld
I disagree. Anecdotally, every kid I've known has been a naturally curious
creature, and I think most kids do want to learn. However, many kids do not
enjoy _being taught_ , especially in a school setting. The early years of
school are more about teaching children to sit quietly and keep their hands to
themselves, which has nothing to do with satisfying curiosity.

That may be what you're saying, but I think the difference is important enough
to be more explicit.

------
super_mario
"What should children know" is an overloaded question, and if we are talking
about developmentally delayed child, it has a completely different meaning. In
that case, there are a certain things a child should know with strong
statistical confidence (e.g. 95% of children do this by age X).

Of course viewed in normal school children context, this question has a
completely different meaning. Even here the author is confusing knowledge with
right kind of environment that produces or fosters it. But a test of knowledge
does not test the environment, just the final product of it.

~~~
balabaster
I agree with you - I think when a parent asks "what should my 4 year old
know", they are looking for that statistical reference:

"Most kids, by the age of 4 know X, know or are in the process of learning Y
and probably don't yet grasp Z. if they already know Z, but don't know X, it's
not a big deal, they'll get it shortly."

Clearly "My kid knows X, Y and Z" isn't what the parent is looking for. I
don't care what _your_ kid can do, quite probably my kid can do a bunch of
stuff yours can't and vice versa, I don't really care that your kid can do X
and mine can do Z, I don't think less of your parenting, nor your child that
they can't do Z and it's not a big deal to me that yours can do X.

When I ask the question, what I'm _really_ asking is so much more complicated:
"Is my kid equipped with enough of the understanding and skills they require
to feel at home and confident in the grade they're in, while still learning at
an optimal pace for them? Are they keeping up with what's being taught or are
they struggling? Are they engaged or disruptive? If they're disruptive, is it
because they're struggling to keep up and have disengaged because they've lost
hope, or is it because they already understand everything they're being taught
and are bored? Are they more/less advanced than the majority of the class, do
I need to consider keeping them back a year because they're struggling with a
lot of material, do I need to fast-track them ahead a year so they're a better
social/educational fit with their peers? Do I need to consider some private
tutoring for X, Y or Z because they're struggling or because they've hit the
ceiling for their peer group for that subject?"

So when I ask "What should my 4 year old know", what I'm really looking for is
some assurance: "Relax, your kid is a perfect fit for the grade she's in,
she's an amazing child, she's made friends, she's happy, she's engaged, she
participates, she's got the confidence to speak, she listens well to
instruction and to her peers, she understands and retains information well -
she's on par with the rest of her class, a bit ahead in X, a bit behind in Y,
but nothing that you need to spend any time worrying about. Just concentrate
on having fun with her and enjoying her childhood, she's doing fine."

~~~
jwdunne
This hits the nail on the head - nobody at all wants to hear about other
"slightly ahead" children and such, these things are not useful. People are
looking for major deficits.

I know for a fact this is what I was looking for with my son, who is 4 years
old with the speech/language skills of a 2 year old -- these things were
absolutely important, especially when there were people in his life who were
totally in denial. Thanks to these measures, my son can get the help he needs
through a speech and language therapist. Impossible if there was nothing to
tell everybody that something is wrong.

With my daughter, who is 5 months, I also regularly look up the same things.
It's more of an assurance than anything.

It's important to stress that they are a rough measure. As I said earlier,
looking out for major deficits, the big red flags. Slightly ahead in one area,
a bit behind in another means nothing - each child develops at different paces
and at different speeds and these little over-achievements or under-
achievements. These things, bundled with a parent like me, is enough to make
me fret and get worried but the more it happens the more you learn that if
there's no big red flags, the little yellow/green ones are nothing to worry
about. I've lost a few nights sleep before learning this one.

------
japhyr
As a parent of a 3 1/2 year old, this was a great read. Development in early
childhood is so rapid, I still feel like a new parent. Here's the two things
I'd add:

\- How to fall down and pick yourself back up without crying too hard.

\- How to laugh at yourself good-naturedly when you make a mistake, and try
again until you get it right.

~~~
balabaster
These are really valuable - only cry when it's necessary. Cry because it hurts
and you feel an emotional need to cry, don't do it because you think it gets
you more attention, that'll wear out in a hurry. (Also: Don't make trouble or
drama where there is none.) \- Definitely don't take the yourself too
seriously. There's enough to be serious about in the world already, without
polluting it further with too much of yours. \- Don't give up just because you
make a mistake or failed once... or 999 times. We wouldn't have anything we
know in this world if scientists and inventors gave up on every failure, most
famously: The light bulb. If you think something can be done and the result is
worth the effort, stick at it until you get the result you're looking for.
That's how we make progress.

------
Pxtl
Should we start them on Haskell or Lisp?

~~~
Tomte
I sometimes ask new parents if they'll choose English or C as the first
foreign language.

So far nobody has opted for C.

~~~
atmosx
How exactly do you (we?) expect someone who doesn't know English to become a
programmer?

Sorry to break it to you, but you can't have one without the other.

~~~
pgeorgi
I've seen French and German code that got by with no significant English
(outside whatever wrapped the core functions). It's easier in some languages
than in others.

Back in the good old BASIC days, there were even hacks to make those
tokenizing interpreters on home computers use German symbols for their
keywords. (nice side effect of the tokenized representation: the code remained
compatible)

Excel and {Open,Libre}Office Calc work with localized symbols for their
functions, too.

I think I've even seen a C header file that wrapped keywords (through macros),
types and libc names in translated versions. Luckily those are rare...

So, programming without English is possible - but I really wouldn't recommend
it.

------
Qantourisc
How to self-reflect, and think about how they act. "Don't do to other what you
wouldn't do yourself" kind thing. This would come a long way to keep some kids
out of trouble.

Not sure if this is really achievable though.

~~~
jonathanwallace
Sadly, this isn't realistic. There are cognitive development milestones that
must be reached through natural physical development.

See
[http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1411647...](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=141164708)
for just one reference.

------
tokenadult
Even in the blog post from 2010 kindly submitted here, the author notes that
this writing is from "many years ago," with a link to the old version,[1] so I
wonder what she thinks now several years later, as her child has grown up some
more.

[1]
[http://www.magicalchildhood.com/articles/4yo.htm](http://www.magicalchildhood.com/articles/4yo.htm)

------
jtheory
This is important stuff - I did first grade twice, because I was a "slow
starter" in a lot of ways. My mother had serious concerns about how well I'd
do at school, for the first few years (even after being left back -- it didn't
help that I was incredibly shy and didn't really want to interact with the
teacher), but once I started reading I read voraciously, and got better &
better at school as time went on, so by the end of HS and then in university I
was at the top of my class generally.

There's still a pile of stuff I wish I'd learned much, much earlier -- like
"how to get good at something" (besides just muddling your way into it), and
that the basics of skill acquisition apply to social skills as well... so now
I'm explicitly teaching these things to my kids, along with a healthy dose of
fun and silliness along the way.

------
joshvm
It was all going well, until:

> musical instruments (real ones and multicultural ones)

Er, what exactly is a multicultural musical instrument? Like a bongo drum? One
of them 'ethnic' doodads?

Just encourage your kids to read and they'll educate themselves. No extra work
required! Once they get the bug they can read about history (in a better way
than school ever could), science and adventure to their heart's content.

I think books, lego and a gameboy (grant me some concessions, we didn't leave
Windows 95 until about 2004) were all I needed to get through childhood.

------
bulte-rs
The unconditional love thing... Times +Inf...

I'm a pretty result-driven person myself, but can't think of anything better
to teach my kids than to know they're loved whatever they do.

~~~
Strom
Unconditional love is such a weird concept to me. I definitely wouldn't
continue loving my child if she killed my other child on purpose. (Out of
jealousy perhaps)

~~~
bulte-rs
So would you start hating the killer or start hating yourself for not teaching
good vs bad.

Plus - considering the other comment - the concept of permanency is - at least
in my very short experience - a difficult concept for a toddler.

~~~
Strom
I don't think I would go from love to hate, as I've never hated anyone. It's
just that my love would be lost.

As for a toddler not understanding permanency, that may be. However I don't
really subscribe to the idea of claiming something is true (e.g. unconditional
love), and then later amending it when permanency is more fully grasped.
Similarly, I'm clear from the very beginning that Santa Claus is a fairy tale.
I want my children to trust me, and in my eyes trust isn't earned by lying,
even when the reason is ageism.

~~~
bulte-rs
Thanks for the insights! I think you phrased it more like I actually think
about it. You're absolutely right about 'instilling a bond of trust'.

------
mbesto
> _That the single biggest predictor of high academic achievement and high ACT
> scores is reading to children. Not flash cards, not workbooks, not fancy
> preschools, not blinking toys or computers, but mom or dad taking the time
> every day or night (or both!) to sit and read them wonderful books._

This startup - Versame - is building a wearable device for children and
parents to measure this. Check it out:
[http://versame.com/](http://versame.com/)

------
imakesnowflakes
I often wonder if kids need to go to school 5 or 6 days a week, and spend 8 -9
hours there. I like the idea of kids being with other kids, but do they really
need to spend most of that time sitting on a bench, listening to classes?

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Kids spending more time in a chair is a terrible, awful, no good very bad
idea.

------
drcode
I'm not sure what is best for a 4 year old, but they certainly aren't helped
by smug and self-righteous posts by parents that claim to have better answers
than other smug and self-righteous parents.

------
lurcio
Love

------
DaveChild
Why are people incapable of using gender-neutral pronouns? Using "they" makes
for a much easier read than alternating "he" and "she".

~~~
chrismeller
Or at least pick one and stick with it. Traditionally it would be "she".

It wasn't important in this case, but my brain kept flipping back to the
previous item to make sure I hadn't made a mistake in reading. Ordinarily it
is pretty important to the narrative.

~~~
Kronopath
Preemptive apologies for potentially stepping in a land mine, but…
"traditionally" under what tradition?

Typically in older literature "he" has been used as the neutral pronoun when
gender is unknown or unimportant. I've seen a more recent movement towards use
of "she", but I don't think I'd say it's "traditional". Am I missing
something?

~~~
chrismeller
Ok... I've seen a lot of publications go with "she" (as in ships, inanimate
objects, etc.), but I couldn't possibly care enough to argue.

The Chicago Manual of Style does say "he" (though they prefer "he or she").

~~~
Kronopath
Fair enough. I've seen "she" used for ships and the like as well, though I've
always found that a little sexist myself, as if it were equating women with
inanimate objects. In the end I don't care much either, I was just wondering,
since I have seen some more recent articles and publications move towards
using "she" as a generic pronoun, but I've always attributed that to the
influence from modern feminist movements.

My personal preference is for singular "they", for what it's worth.

