
Joker – Torrents to streamable video - bmaeser
http://joker.org/
======
wmt
What's the catch? I have a few trust issues when someone wants to pay his own
money to give me access to mostly illegal content.

Somebody just spent time making a torrent streaming service, and is now paying
for the bandwidth it takes to download that torrent content AND to upload it
to your browser. What I could quickly see about the service is that the
facebook "app" of it doesn't have too many users[1], dyn.com[2] handles the
site DNS (not free) and redstation.com[3] hosts the service (not free).

[1]
[https://developers.facebook.com/tools/explorer/?method=GET&p...](https://developers.facebook.com/tools/explorer/?method=GET&path=720087414746210&version=v2.1)

[2] [http://who.is/whois/joker.org](http://who.is/whois/joker.org)

[3]
[http://tools.pingdom.com/ping/?target=149.3.133.138&o=1](http://tools.pingdom.com/ping/?target=149.3.133.138&o=1)

~~~
foobarqux
The catch is the owner is clueless. If it doesn't close due to load in a few
days it will close due to liability in a few weeks.

~~~
wmt
I would've disagreed with your assessment, but then the guy came out with his
(probably) own name and picture @
[https://twitter.com/ufukaltinok](https://twitter.com/ufukaltinok)

~~~
pault
Looks like he's Turkish? I know the put.io team is located in Turkey, and they
run a similar service (albeit paid), so copyright infringement might not be a
legal issue for residents there.

~~~
wmt
Apparently they are making (or made already?) it easier to sue people in
Turkey for p2p copyright infringement. However, the fact that put.io is still
up tells a lot about how effectively those laws are enacted.

[http://adventuresinankara.com/2012/07/30/adapt-or-die-
guest-...](http://adventuresinankara.com/2012/07/30/adapt-or-die-guest-
blogger-takes-a-look-at-turkeys-new-law-on-downloading-music-and-movies/)

------
mbesto
I do exactly this with Put.io - (1) get magnet link (2) stream on the browser
and (3) push out to chromecast on my TV. No downloading ever.

My understanding of "how is this legal" is the following - the server and
server admin has no keys to the data so it would be impossible for them to do
DMCA. Put.io has been around for a long time now so I'm pretty sure they've
cleared the legal hurdles already.

~~~
hyperbovine
I congratulate you on possessing such an easily appeased conscience.

~~~
delluminatus
This happens every time someone brings up torrenting on HN: a baseless,
sarcastic, unsubstantiated, "moral" judgement.

Why do you feel the need to stick your head into the comment section and spit
out a worthless one-line comment about conscience?

Please keep your morality complex out of our technical discussion.

~~~
hyperbovine
Oh boo-hoo. If your dainty technical discussion cannot withstand the cold,
hard fact that 99% of the time this particular technology is used to steal
movies and TV shows, then I'd say that merits some discussion. Interesting btw
that it's verboten for me to pass any sort of moral judgement in this thread,
whereas you have license to label my opinion worthless. Hypocrite.

~~~
Tehnix
I could never see this movie or tv-series because I'm not in the US.........
or I could torrent it. See the situation?

------
denisnazarov
This is not actually p2p. Check out
[https://github.com/feross/webtorrent](https://github.com/feross/webtorrent).
Hoping to hear feross' input.

~~~
caractacus
Does that matter? The joker.org server is doing the p2p download bit and
streaming the content to the browser.

It's likely that it's caching material for torrents. I tried Guardians of the
Galaxy and could skip almost all the way to the end of the film when it had
only just begun.

~~~
denisnazarov
A free seedbox with no login barrier is unscalable for many reasons. Its neat,
but I would rather see everyone who thinks this is interesting contribute to
the Webtorrent project, which strives to make being a torrent node as easy as
visiting a URL, using WebRTC as the data channel.

~~~
DaFranker
>I would rather see everyone who thinks this is interesting contribute to the
Webtorrent project

Um. I'm not quite sure the set "thinks this is interesting" is entirely
included within "has the ability to contribute to the Webtorrent project". In
fact, I think the former more than likely has a bigger intersect with "will
probably break the Webtorrent project and/or disrupt the community" than with
the positive contributor set.

------
kristofferR
Damn, it's awesome that bandwidth has become this cheap.

This isn't a torrent client in your browser, the server actually does the
torrenting for you and then streams the file to you as it's downloading on the
server.

------
Sami_Lehtinen
In Finland it's totally legal to watch streamed pirated content. But the
streamer (source) will get quite likely get sued and pay a lot.

------
geekymartian
This is cute, but I will continue using peerflix :
[https://github.com/mafintosh/peerflix](https://github.com/mafintosh/peerflix)
. Loads way faster and is not hosted/tracked (besides the obvious p2p
interaction). And I don't have to see ads.

~~~
hyyypr
Thanks, very nice little software.

------
hotgoldminer
What are the legal ramifications of streaming pirated content? Could you cache
popular content to preserve downstream traffic? Or is that the loophole? This
plus content aggregation/browsing.. hmm..

~~~
belorn
Depend where the server is located. In this case its UK law that dictate the
rules. If it did go to court, I would suspect that the case _Public Relations
Consultants Association Limited [PRCA] v. The Newspaper Licensing Agency
Limited and others_ ([http://www.ip-watch.org/2013/05/07/viewing-cached-
copyrighte...](http://www.ip-watch.org/2013/05/07/viewing-cached-copyrighted-
content-isnt-infringing-uk-supreme-court-says/)) would be relevant.

"The court said: Whether looking at a cached copy of protected content,
without downloading or printing it, amounts to infringement. Lower courts held
that it does, a finding unanimously rejected by the Supreme Court.".

~~~
showsover
The owner ought to be happy if he's not extradited to america.

See Richard O'Dwyer
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_O%27Dwyer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_O%27Dwyer)

~~~
rodwyer
When was I extradited anywhere exactly?

------
bmaeser
developer of joker.org joined comments on product hunt:
[http://www.producthunt.com/posts/joker](http://www.producthunt.com/posts/joker)

~~~
josu
This is the guy who claims to be the developer:
[https://twitter.com/ufukaltinok](https://twitter.com/ufukaltinok)

~~~
imaginenore
That's a Turkish name, and there are a couple of Facebook accounts that match
the name and the photo.

Here's the US-Turkey extradition treaty:

[http://www.mcnabbassociates.com/Turkey%20International%20Ext...](http://www.mcnabbassociates.com/Turkey%20International%20Extradition%20Treaty%20with%20the%20United%20States.pdf)

~~~
josu
Yeah, but:
[https://twitter.com/ufukaltinok/status/516602396353384448](https://twitter.com/ufukaltinok/status/516602396353384448)

------
digital-rubber
Somehow i predict this site will not live long. Mainly because of the legal
implications.

If it does live long, i might start to wonder if this is some RIAA like
honeypot system to have users report where they get their torrent downloads
from by sharing the links directly.

Just my penny.

------
caractacus
Tried an mkv from NYAA: no go, format not supported (loads to 100% but then
gives the error)

Different mkv from Kickass: format not supported (without loading, apparently,
though I wonder if it's cached given that it was Guardians of the Galaxy)

TV episode of Gotham: same as for previous

Something is happening because it says e.g. 'Gotham' in the top and retrieves
a nice faded background of the cast but I keep getting 'format not supported'

EDIT: seems to be my browser or connection; trying a different machine on a
different IP and it works very nicely and quickly indeed.

------
Phogo
Wow, that was easy and actually worked flawlessly.

Could you provide us with a little info on the technologies behind it?

~~~
bmaeser
sorry, not my site or tech. i just shared the link here on hn.

------
Mendim
IT saves the torrents in host.i checked an video.the site maybe will be
suspended because is hosted ilegaly contents

[http://v4.joker.org/v/d027a2418e34d040f015a75376d627c0a022e2...](http://v4.joker.org/v/d027a2418e34d040f015a75376d627c0a022e22b93ba3d0ac4507ef87da5fa7286fd1c171a19cc19e7a7d29cf6111410e9765fe25b88badc4fb40b1770b073ad60a4ed0f00da5e316fefd73021dc8ac1.mp4)

~~~
ikt
looks like it deletes the file shortly after download?

~~~
Mendim
let we check it after 24 hours.maybe they delete files automaticaly.but for
now the link is alive yet.

------
colinramsay
This worked really well for me after a few seconds of stuttering at the start.
Looking at the network requests, it's streaming from an MP4 file on the server
which I guess is being fed by the torrent. But doesn't it effectively mean
that this site is hosting the MP4 of potentially illegal content - even if
just a few seconds of it? Or even as just a container for it?

~~~
agumonkey
Tried different links (magnets or .torrent) without any luck. I'm curious to
see how it behaves even though I don't intend to use it afterwards.. just for
the sake of doing it in the browser. Anyone care to give me a small sample
magnet ? <10M

~~~
icebraining
This works fine for me:
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:373b1794e9e73dbf206bce304a5900851193f285&dn=steal+
this+film+part+1+and+2&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.publicbt.com%3A8
0%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fopen.demonii.com%3A1337

~~~
agumonkey
Same.. I get an error (I fixed the space between ? and xt). Chrome
devtools/network shows nothing suspcious, some basic ping pong between their
server for small HTTP request returning 200. Weird. Thanks for the help though

------
fredley
On my Chromebook I use JSTorrent:
[https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/jstorrent/anhdpjpo...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/jstorrent/anhdpjpojoipgpmfanmedjghaligalgb?hl=en)

~~~
sdk16420
The paid version of Vuze also allows streaming torrent videos
[http://www.vuze.com/features/playnow](http://www.vuze.com/features/playnow)

So all in all, hardly a new concept, but this looks really convenient to use.

~~~
j_s
Tribler is free and will prioritize piece-picking to allow immediate playback
while the download is in progress. This has long been frowned upon in the
BitTorrent community and usually leads to client bans from the more pickiest
of the private sharing sites.

[http://www.tribler.org/](http://www.tribler.org/)

------
afro88
Anyone know how this would work in Germany? They're incredibly strict on
torrents here (you can torrent one movie and get a letter in the mail 2 weeks
later). This seems like it would be a nice workaround... While it lasts

~~~
hobofan
If you stream it through your browser, they still have the same IP, which is
used to identify you.

As for prosecution of torrent seeders, that's not really possible anymore
IIRC, since the "Vorratsdatenspeicherung" (= stockpile saving of which IP
address has been connect to which landline, in case it is needed for law
enforcement) has been declared illegal. AFAIK movie torrents were never really
monitored, the focus was always on the latest music releases. I also haven't
heard of any fines for torrenting in the last 2-3 years, but that might be
because I'm not really in that age anymore.

~~~
memorion
They can have your IP but just streaming itself isn't illegal in Germany and
since you actually don't personally seed the content here you might just be
ok.

------
paul9290
With all the streaming sites out there that let you watch ALL your favorite TV
shows and the latest movies, I never understood the lure of PopCorn Time and
this type of site?

With both Popcorn Time and this tool (site) I could receive a copyright
infringement notice. While the streaming sites that stream the latest from the
Pirate Bay & more are liable. Further, by the letter of the law, me watching
these streams is perfectly legal; no copyright notice will be received.

Maybe the streaming sites I speak of are not well known or not openly spoken
about because they'll get shut down?

~~~
veridies
There's also the issue of quality; most free streaming sites have much more
heavily compressed video than a good torrent. And you don't have to deal with
ads on a torrent.

------
interdrift
What if the data isn't a video.Does every format have a header which provides
that it's actually a video?I assume it works through a stream feeding it with
data at a time and then decoding it?

~~~
icebraining
_Does every format have a header which provides that it 's actually a video?_

I've never seen one that didn't. Certainly the most common containers do.

------
jmbmxer
I work in security and have been running into more and more issues with these
types of Torrent streaming services. People at work mostly know that
downloading a BitTorrent client, seeding, leeching, etc. is bad but they have
no idea that these streaming applications are doing the same exact thing
behind the scenes. They just see it as a way to watch free movies. Keep your
employees informed about this and tighten up your policies because DMCA laws
apply.

~~~
kbart
As other comments have already mentioned, watching the streaming contest (even
copyrighted) is perfectly legal in many countries (at least in EU).

------
daddykotex
Very impressive, it worked flawlessly for me with a randomly picked torrent.
The file was an MP4.

Good job, I hope you find a way to make it stick around!

------
h43k3r
I am thinking of starting a project similar to this for DC++. DC++ is pretty
popular in many of the indian universities intranet networks for sharing
files/music/videos(I know its illegal, but no one cares about it here in India
because very weak laws) . Anyone having any inputs on this?

------
omgmog
Tested with Big Buck Bunny and it seems to work nice enough.

[http://distribution.bbb3d.renderfarming.net/video/mp4/bbb_su...](http://distribution.bbb3d.renderfarming.net/video/mp4/bbb_sunflower_1080p_60fps_normal.mp4.torrent)

------
Patrick_Devine
Didn't have time to look through the DOM. Is this a javascript torrent client?
I think there was one out there in the wild before, but I'm not sure how good
it was. I always thought if there was a simple JS torrent library out there,
Bit torrent could make a comeback.

~~~
mhaymo
According to this ([http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4776112/is-it-possible-
to...](http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4776112/is-it-possible-to-build-a-
torrent-client-using-only-html5-and-javascript)), it's not possible to build a
bittorrent client in javascript.

~~~
MzHN
That was true in 2011, when the question was asked and answered.

For recent developments, take a look at
[http://webtorrent.io](http://webtorrent.io)

------
tomphoolery
Noticed "Inception" was much easier to stream than "200 Motels", and the
laserdisc version didn't even work. How in the hell does this thing work? It's
pretty awesome, once the movie actually downloads. :)

Seems like there's some caching going on. Good idea.

~~~
dchuk
Well, "200 Motels" shows about 16 seeds on Kickass right now, while Inception
has about 1600. So that would explain why one works so much better than the
other.

~~~
emerongi
It must be caching the more popular torrents. Inception loaded up within 1s
for me, which means there probably was no communication between the trackers
and the server. Other torrents didn't even load up for me.

~~~
icebraining
_Inception loaded up within 1s for me_

Didn't it show an ad first? Even if you're fast at skipping, it's still enough
time to preload the file in the background.

~~~
emerongi
No ads. I live in a country with barely any ads targeted at it (only 1M people
live here) - so I usually get none. It loaded up so incredibly fast that it
must have been cached and stored on the server.

------
mk00
Worked beautifully for me, including loading at different points. Very nice.

------
anilshanbhag
This service is very good. You can watch pretty much any video (not a movie -
that's piracy you know) as if it were hosted on Youtube. Scrolling is smooth
and almost instantaneous load time.

------
jokoon
I remember watching some video of bram cohen in his lab, where he was actually
making some p2p video client.

I guess what he's working on at this moment... I guess nothing ?

~~~
caractacus
Bram Cohen has been working on some p2p video client for years and I don't
think he's ever even released an alpha. Given that (i) typical residential
broadband speeds have increased dramatically over the last few years and (ii)
bittorrent or some form of it has become the accepted means for cheap live
video streaming by clients the world over (qvod, pps, popcorntime, etc etc), I
don't see what issues he might be facing.

------
taneem
What's the difference between this and Popcorn Time?

~~~
calvin_c
As I understand it Popcorn Time torrents and seeds a file sequentially,
allowing you to watch the video as it downloads and removes the video from
your device when it's over. It's more similar to torrenting a file yourself,
but doesn't store the file when it's over. In contrast this torrents the file
to the server and allows you to stream the content over your browser, so it
isn't your device doing the leeching and seeding. You just watch it all
happen.

~~~
taternuts
Last I checked, it's actually a simple check-box in the settings to stop
popcorn time from deleting the file afterwards. Really the only thing popcorn
time did over the old-fashioned torrenting process was enable easy 'streaming'
of torrents by downloading the bits in order instead of by least available
first, as well as a nice UI to find them

------
Aissen
So this is basically put.io, but free ?

------
notax
Doesn't seem to work. I get an error on any torrent I try, regardless of
source or video format.

------
maram
Wow! this is very simple and easy to use!! I wonder for how long it will be
available..

------
IkmoIkmo
Wow that was smooth as butter... Am I unique or is everyone getting speed like
this?

------
kumarharsh
It seems there is another issue: Some of the torrent videos don't play at all.

------
neogenix
Does it support ChromeCast?

------
bluehazed
Worked fantastic. Awesome.

------
foobarqux
iflix.io, which did the exact same thing (in fact I think it is the same code
base), closed after a few days because it is not sustainable to do the
downloading on behalf of the client.

------
atmosx
Is this open source? Can I download/install this to my VPS?!

------
manish_gill
I wonder how this will work with Private Trackers?

------
Jamie452
Seeking seems super fast, I'm impressed!

------
Codename47tr
Even works perfect on my ipad, amazing

------
drdoooom
this is really great, worked better than i anticipated. maybe a xbmc addon in
the future!

~~~
zperrault
There are actually several XBMC addons that do this sort of Torrent file
streaming. Here's one:
[http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=200957](http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=200957)

~~~
drdoooom
that's great, thanks i'll check it out. i don't suppose you know of a similar
option for roku?

------
JCJoverTCP
dont torrent chunks show up out of order?

~~~
valarauca1
No this is how you stream torrents.

Normally you request what ever chunk a seeder has available. But instead you
request in order. This slows your speed (slightly), but a torrent likely will
still finish before the movie has making the point moot.

------
baldfat
So a ton of links and stories are removed from Hacker News based on???? But a
service that stream pirated material is fine?

~~~
kbart
What's with the attitude that torrents == piracy? Torrents have many
legitimate uses and is great technology for decentralized sharing, for
example, you can download some Linux distributions via torrents from the
official site what in turn reduces cost for the maintainers. It's the same as
saying that all Tor users are pedophiles. I expect people here in HN to be
more technologically literate and less biased than average Joe.

