

Analysis of GPS logs uncovers multimillion $ NYC cab scam - MykalMorton
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/12/city-cabbies-gouge-passengers-out-of-millions-agency-finds/?hp

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oldgregg
And we all wondered why they so adamantly opposed having GPS installed...

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sliverstorm
No. No, we didn't wonder. We knew and they knew.

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andrewcooke
i don't see how that makes sense. the fraction of drivers doing this,
according to the report, is small. so if there was a popular objection then it
must also have included people (a majority) who don't do this.

perhaps people simply value privacy, even while doing their job.

[also - note how the bad behaviour of a minority is being used to justify the
loss of privacy by the majority; this happens again and again]

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jfager
Why would a cab driver have an expectation that his location be private when
driving people around in a cab? That makes no sense.

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andrewcooke
you really think the customer knowing a driver's location, or someone seeing
them go past on the street, is the same as a centralised record?

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jfager
Not at all, when did I say that? I said it makes no sense to think a cab
driver has any reasonable expectation that the location of his cab would be
private in any sense when it's in service and carrying passengers.

As a frequent cab rider, I'm happy to know that the location of the stranger's
car that I just jumped into is tracked and recorded at all times.

Why do you think this information should be kept private?

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nitrogen
_Why do you think this information should be kept private?_

Maybe because, as with the demise Netflix Prize, the data can be correlated
with some other dataset to identify individuals who ride in the cabs.

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ghshephard
As one who has taken taxis on a daily to weekly basis for the last ten years,
I've never understood how on earth a Taxi Driver can pull scams on their
passengers. I flag locally, call for a pickup, as well as take cabs from
airports.

I've done this thousands of times in ten years.

In _all_ of that time, the closest I've seen to an errant fare (keeping in
mind, I make the same trip hundreds of times with dozens of taxis drivers, as
well as having Google Maps give me detailed distance information) is low tire
pressure on a Taxi that took what should have been a $35 taxi fare to $38.
It's amazing how little the "waiting time" charge varies a ride taken at a
particular time. It's usually within 30-50 cents on a $40 ride at most.

I've never had a taxi driver try and determine if I was a "regular" or "out of
towner" - and I rarely do more than just give them an address.

So I find it, based on my own experiences, very, very hard to believe that
Taxi Drivers are engaging in any kind of widespread scam - unless they pull it
on the blatant foreigners.

If I ever had a Taxi driver charge me the wrong rate, I wouldn't even dispute
it with him, I'd just call their administrative oversight (which, in most
cities, is the local police) and let them deal with it.

So, as much as people want to suggest "GPS Logs" are uncovering something -
I'd have to suggest that by and large there is nothing to uncover. I'd be
interested in seeing further details on these taxi drivers who have supposedly
overcharged 100s of times - People like me would have flipped and/or called
the police if they tried it even _once_ on us.

Color me dubious.

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lionhearted
Compare:

"Hey driver, 30th and 3rd please."

"Hi, umm, do we want to go the Empire State Building next? Umm, okay, yeah,
Empire State Building please." -> Flip into doubletime.

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spuz
Well who didn't see that one coming?

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Jim72
The overcharged customers, of course... all 1.8 million of them.

Pity, as the meter in a cab is clearly visible and the regulations are posted
for the passenger to see.

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gyardley
When I hop into a cab in NYC, I generally spend a lot more than the $4.55 this
article implies the average fare should be - since $4.55 is the average
overcharge, and since the overcharged rate is double.

If this was just user error I'd expect the overcharge to be near the average
fare - looks to me like the cabbies are deliberately ripping off people who
want to go just a short distance, probably out of irritation.

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lionhearted
Wouldn't the $4.55 over just be metered distance? You also pay a flat fee when
you get in, pay when the cab is idling, and pay for any tolls you pass - those
wouldn't be effected. It's been a while since I was in New York though, and I
usually tried to avoid cabs.

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gyardley
Yes, this is all true. Didn't add it because I didn't think it modified my
point much.

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Mz
_The scam was primarily perpetrated by a small number of drivers, with 3,000
of them overcharging more than 100 times, the agency said.

While the 1.8 million overcharged trips is a large number, it represents only
0.5 percent of the 361 million taxi trips taken during the 26-month period the
agency studied._

Given the tiny percentage, I think calling it a "scam" is a bit over the top.
Who doesn't make an occasional mistake?

\-------

 _A single cabby was accused this month of overcharging passengers a total of
$40,000._

On the other hand, this was probably not a mistake. But in many cases, I would
guess it was an innocent mistake.

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jonknee
The "innocent mistake" primarily consisted of a small number of drivers who
did it more than 100 times... That's pretty telling. If it was a mistake why
did they do it over 100 times?

The rules are pretty simple and no cabbie mistakenly thinks they are in
Westchester when they are on Park Ave. It's quite obviously a scam, but not
one that all NYC cabbies perpetrated.

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Mz
I already acknowledged that some cases are pretty clearly not just human
error. And I haven't really been to New York (drove through there on the way
to the Boston area once), so I don't really know firsthand. However, the
cliche is that New York cabbies are typically foreign and speak poor English.
So I have a little difficulty thinking that they all are perfectly clear about
every detail of their jobs and there are no mistakes rooted in language
barrier/cultural barrier/just not knowing the geography as well as a native of
the area likely would.

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illumen
This is no where near as big a problem these days with navigation systems. Of
course, good cab drivers with the 'knowledge' will beat the navigation system
ones a lot. At least now the bad cab drivers get you there now. Without having
to spend 10 minutes reading a map.

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Mz
Hey, I am all for GPS navigation and the like. I have a certificate in GIS.
:-D

(Not that it's done my career any good...at least not yet.)

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RK
Who will write an android/iphone app for passengers to double check this?

Edit: Looks like they already exist:

<http://www.google.com/search?q=iphone+taxi+meter+app>

