
FIA to Introduce Biometric Monitoring Gloves - chrisan
https://www.fia.com/news/safety-their-hands
======
JshWright
"This is potentially important in the context of a racing driver because if
they have an injury that is affecting breathing, the oxygen content of the
blood will begin diminishing immediately."

That depends on your definition of "immediately"... It can take several
minutes of apnea before the oxygen saturation level starts to drop off. This
is particularly true of people in good cardiovascular condition (which F1
drivers certainly are).

~~~
avdmerwe
Reading some of the press that this has had, it's unfortunate that some things
have had a bit too much PR treatment. I'd also tend to disagree with
'immediately'.

We definitely don't expect this to be a silver bullet - it is the first (long
overdue) foray into permanent physiological monitoring in F1, which will serve
as a blueprint for further sensors and monitoring.

We chose SpO2 and motion as the first metrics, as they potentially offer us a
lot of value with a single monitoring site.

~~~
HorizonXP
Alan? Welcome to HN!

Can you talk a bit more about how you guys developed this? It sounds like the
biometrics sensor you developed was custom-built. When did development start?
What kind of support did you get from the FIA, F1, and race teams? How did you
guys do your beta testing?

I feel like an AMA is in order, and Hacker News is probably the best place to
do it. I think a lot of us would also love to hear about your stories being
the F1 medical car driver too.

Edit: another question.

\- Why Bluetooth? Even with 500m range, you'd likely need several receivers
around the track to ensure coverage. Furthermore, how reliable is it among the
various sources of RF interference around the track? I'd like to hear more
about this, because we've done some development with low-power long-range
wireless devices, and Bluetooth was never considered a possibility. Maybe your
constraints are different, or you guys know something I don't.

~~~
avdmerwe
Thanks! Strange to be posting, as I've been reading HN for years.

As with most things, this turned out to be more complex than we initially
thought. The regulations in F1 meant that there were no off-the-shelf options
for sensors. That, together with the fact that we needed to make things at low
volumes, and potentially custom for drivers, meant that we had to develop the
sensor ourselves. Fire rating and interaction with other safety systems on the
car dictated a lot of our design choices.

The FIA has been instrumental in making this happen, as they are constantly
trying to improve safety. Testing something like this at F1 races was
challenging, as teams have less and less time to get their car development
done. Everyone has been very supportive of the idea though, as teams always
want more data!

Most drivers have done a decent amount of track time last year with various
versions of the sensors, and we've chosen a design which ticks the most boxes.
It is still very early days however, and I'm sure we'll have improved in
almost all areas (comfort, performance & integration into clothing) by the end
of the year.

The device we've developed can be used on many sites on the body, but for now
the glove presents the 'easiest' to implement across the various clothing
manufacturers. Further down the line, we'll probably fit more things in the
earpieces, but this will require more than just anecdotal evidence as to what
happens with the earpieces during large impacts. We want this data to be
available in the most extreme cases. So although the ear would be a great
place for SpO2 99% of the time when all is well, we don't know enough about
how the sensor would interact with the sacrificial systems (helmet, head rest)
in the accidents we'd most want this to work.

Bluetooth: I personally feel that the BLE standard is heading in the right
direction for our use case, looking at the 5.0 standard and onwards. Lots of
the current limitations will be solved by wider industry, instead of us having
to do the legwork. Each car will have an on-car receiver which drops the data
onto existing telemetry systems. In many cases, these systems are no longer
functional after large accidents (antenna gets knocked off, car powered off
etc), so we'd like to access the data with consumer devices in the worst
cases. We already have iPads mounted in the car for other data, so BLE is the
best candidate for now.

RF interference is actually also a reason we chose BLE: the 2.4GHz band is
relatively quiet at race tracks, as most systems are in the higher bands these
days.

I'd happily do an AMA, not sure how best to go about it though.

~~~
JshWright
If you don't mind me asking, what's your technical background? You seem well
versed in the technical side of things (plus, you read HN!). I had kind of
assumed your background was mostly racing.

BTW, I really enjoyed the Medical Car feature on formula1.com last year. I
moonlight as a paramedic, and as part of that I'm often an ambulance driving
instructor. Your quote about having some "capacity in reserve" is something I
incorporate in my teaching now.

~~~
avdmerwe
Although I've spent the majority of my professional life driving around in
circles, I have always been interested in technology, and worked in IT before
I started racing professionally. Learning about materials, electronics, and
manufacturing have been mainly through trial and error over the past 2 years,
and working with some very talented people in their respective fields.

Great to hear that there's been some value in something I've said in an
interview!

~~~
HorizonXP
Alan, if you put your email in your profile, or email me at mine, we can get
in touch with the HN mods and get an AMA together. I think it’s really worth
doing.

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whistlerbrk
Yes the gloves are interesting, and I'm sorry if this is off topic, but that
steering wheel is incredible. If you search for images of F1 steering wheels
it looks like they are all custom within some parameters.

~~~
jstanley
If you search for images of _any_ F1 parts, they're almost all custom within
some parameters.

------
jstanley
Lets just hope this is one piece of Formula 1 technology that _doesn 't_
trickle down into road cars.

~~~
melling
You can wear them anywhere. If an simple Apple Watch can be used to save a
life, this technology might save a lot more.

[https://9to5mac.com/2017/12/15/apple-watch-saves-life-
managi...](https://9to5mac.com/2017/12/15/apple-watch-saves-life-managing-
heart-attack/)

Probably wouldn’t wear them all the time but when someone doesn’t “feel well”,
a wearable in some form might save a life.

~~~
jstanley
As long as it's optional, it's fine.

But shortly after it becomes optional, it will probably become mandatory (if
previous safety technology is anything to judge by), and then you've got the
government having access to live biometric monitoring data of every single
driver on the road.

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jkldsadfaf
"The sensor uses a new industrial version of Bluetooth "

I hope its more robust than my BOSS headphones (beep beep connected to Deb-
BEEP BEEP lost conection to Debian)

------
sandworm101
What use is this data? How does knowing the drivers o2 saturation after a
crash change any procedure? It isn't as if they are ever going to leave him in
a wreck for a second longer than needed. He is comming out asap and his 02
measured immediately no matter. Will they pull a driver from a race should his
o2 appear to drop? I doubt it.

~~~
avdmerwe
This is meant to serve as an extra data point during the decision-making
process when we first get to a driver, especially when we don't have immediate
access to them.

As other posters have pointed out, we try to minimise additional risk to the
driver and rescue workers as much as possible. Pulling a car out of the
barriers quickly could potentially injure a driver that was perfectly fine.

The data will also be useful in post-analysis, as much of the time it can take
up to 2 minutes for us to reach a driver at some circuits. If we can see that
a driver wasn't moving and had low blood sats, that could be useful info when
deciding on further treatment/imaging/etc.

I drive the F1 Medical Car, and came up with this system together with my
colleague Dr. Ian Roberts, and have spent the past 2 years developing it. Any
questions, ask!

~~~
sandworm101
Then your guys must be operating in a much lower energy environment than mine.
In an aviation crash my driver (air crew) will be inside a mess of aluminum,
high voltage wires, fuel and burning carbon fiber. Extraction is the first
priority. Unless the pilot is talking and can give a great reason to stay, he
is comming out. It isnt so much for his safety but for the five or more
rescuers who dont want to be caught in the inevitable fireball. Our SAR guys
are backing away from even checking vitals in situ, let alone o2 sat.

In the extreme, ejection seat aircraft often have instructions for activating
the canopy/seat on the ground, if necessary to "extract" a pilot. A twice-
broken back is better than burned to death.

~~~
avdmerwe
Interesting to read this. It sounds like the opposite approach a rescue crew
would take in a motorsport environment, in most cases.

I guess F1 is a much more controlled environment, due to car and circuit
design working together as a safety system.

Perhaps F1 safety focuses on minimising injury when things go wrong, whereas
aviation systems are optimised to avoid things going wrong in the first place?

