
Apple Finally Updates MacBook Air with Retina Display, Touch ID - evo_9
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/10/apple-finally-updates-macbook-air-with-retina-display/
======
IkmoIkmo
Love the device but I can't get over how expensive it has gotten. A 20% price
bump...

Sure, there's still the old Macbook Air around, but it wasn't updated and is
based on a decade old model with a CPU/GPU that's a 3 years old (5th gen i5
from 2015), and a 128 PPI screen, that's a bit ridiculous.

If you want a modern machine you're looking at $1200 for the cheapest model.

That isn't even too bad but when you go abroad, all bets are off. I still
don't get this.

USD/EUR rate has been as high as 1.4 and as low as 1.05 in the past 5 years,
averaging about 1.2 USD/EUR. So a $1200 Macbook Air should be €1000,
typically. It's not. Instead it's more, €1350.

Or in dollar terms, that's about $1620 at the 5y average exchange rates.

That's what EU students have to pay for a modern but entry-level Macbook in
the new Air. The regular Macbook or Macbook Pro are of course even more
expensive.

Okay so part of this is silly exchange rates and pricing, some of it related
to high EU VAT by the way, not just Apple's pricing. But part of it is also a
pretty damn expensive lineup, with this new Macbook Air coming in at 20%
higher prices than the previous model.

Yes prices tend to move up, inflation is a thing... but technology is supposed
to be the exception, where you can get better specs after a few years without
moving the price point. They just bumped it up 20%, that's pretty ridiculous.

~~~
cauthon
> Love the device but I can't get over how expensive it has gotten. A 20%
> price bump...

I got downvoted for posting this as a top-level comment, but it's insane to me
how Apple's hardware specs have stagnated while maintaining the same price.

In 2014 I bought an entry-level Macbook Pro with retina display, 2.6 GHz i5
processor, 8 GB of RAM, and 128 GB SSD for $1300.

In 2018 I can buy the entry-level Macbook Pro with retina display, 2.3 GHz i5
processor, 8 GB of RAM, and 128 GB SSD, still for $1300.

In 2018 I can also now buy an entry-level Macbook Air with retina display, 1.6
GHz i5 processor, 8 GB of RAM, and 128 GB SSD for $1200.

I'm in the market for a new laptop and I'm seriously considering making the
jump to Linux rather than paying the same price for the same specs that were
available 4.5 years ago.

~~~
jtbayly
I'm sympathetic to the complaint about price, but if your contention is that
the devices are basically unchanged, then why buy a 2018 model? Why not buy a
2014 model?

And if you don't want to make that sacrifice, then there's probably
_something_ different about the device that Apple is assuming is worth ponying
up for the upgrade for you.

(For starters, despite the similar clock speed and processor names, the
processors are not the same speed.)

~~~
merb
> (For starters, despite the similar clock speed and processor names, the
> processors are not the same speed.)

of course not, it's at least 4 years older.

I mean that would not be fair to compare them. I have a Late 2013 Mbp 15" it
was priced at ~2.200€ it was the "entry" model of the mbp 15" however if you
look now the price is going to the roof. 2.799,00 € is the new price, of
course the processor is now faster, there are 4 years in between (well clock
speed is lower, but more cores). What else has changed? Of couse It lost it's
sd slot, and also lost 256gb of ssd storage (if you want the same storage than
the 2013 model you need to pay an increase of 240 €!) what did also change?
the graphics card, it now is a radeon (and of course more clock speed, it's 4
years older.

So how did the price changed:

* Late 2013 15" MBP: ~2.200,00 € (cheapest)

* Curr 2018 15" MBP: 2.799,00 € (cheapest)

* 2018 15" MBP: 3.039,00 € (same storage space)

that is totally unreasonable. The processor does not cost 600 € more (btw the
i7-4850HQ costed roughly ~400€ hard to say since prices of that processor
aren't well known, however the current mbp uses the i7-8750H which is actually
priced officaly at 400 $, so should be less euro, but keep it 1:1 it would
mean no increase) of course memory prices gone through the roof, but since
that's the cheapest component that would justify a maximum of 100 €.

SO tl;dr

Late 2013 to Current with newer hardware for the same price means a increase
of 839 € or 599 € (you can even remove 100€ and it wouldn't be ok) if you can
take the storage hit. and all you get is a touchbar, which you probably might
need or not.

~~~
jtbayly
Exactly! This is why I'm quite sympathetic. I just think it needs to be laid
out like this to make it an effective point.

------
ksec
I wonder if a lot of people are leaving the Mac ecosystem.

Apple has been selling roughly ~19M Mac per year since 2012, and its new user
to Mac has also been steady at ~50%. Apple has had 60M Mac user in 2012
announced in WWDC, and they has been nearing 100M since early 2017. I assume
that actual number is larger than 90M at the time, so after nearly 20 Months,
~20M New Mac Users on board, it manage to add a total ~10M Active Install
Base.

That is surprising for me, as I was expecting ~110M+ Mac User already, others
analysts like Benedict Evans and Asymco put those number past ~120M. So for
every 2 new Mac Users, there is one leaving.

I hardly call that good news by Apple Standard. And this high churn rate
happens after early 2017. From 2012 to 2016-17, there is 4 / 5 New users for
every 1 leaving the Mac Ecosystem.

The timing actually align with their sudden Interviews with Apple journalist
on Mac, Mac Pro, and the release of iMac Pro.

And judging from these numbers, I would bet the release of MacBook Pro, iMac
Pro and MacBook didn't restore the faith of its Mac users. Apple didn't care
about its Mac lineup, this new MacBook Air as well as Mac mini were likely
reaction to this churn, much like the iMac Pro.

Or may be, the timing has something to do with their New Keyboard Design,
which they introduce to MacBook in 2015 and Pro in 2016, and they managed to
fit that in this New MacBook Air.

~~~
pentae
Apple executives are probably telling themselves these people are just trading
in their old laptops for iPads hence why they have been doubling down on iOS
for the last 5 years. Milking the entire ecosystem for 30% compared to 0% on a
laptop sure hasn't hurt, either.

~~~
maxxxxx
Based on business results the Apple execs are right. To detriment of the
relatively small number of professional users like software devs or
photographers.

~~~
lambda_lover
One can only hope that those software devs who create applications for both
ecosystems don't leave for greener pastures, taking their software with
them...

~~~
maxxxxx
It will be interesting. I always thought that one success factor of iOS was
that during that time Macbooks were incredibly popular among devs.

------
finchisko
Am I the only one, who is excited and considering buying this thing? I'm still
on 2012 Air. It's good device, but showing it's age (slow CPU and only 4GB of
Ram, the screen resolution is joke). But new Air seems very compelling to me.
I'll miss the magsafe though.

Also I would like to know if the SSD can be upgraded later (unofficially of
course). 2012 Air SSD can be replaced, using cheap reduction (from proprietary
apple to standard M2). Not sure about the newer models.

~~~
BonesJustice
Out of curiosity, what is the appeal of the new MacBook Air over a regular
MacBook? Is it the 13" screen vs. the 12"?

I'd just assumed that when Apple introduced that crazy-thin 12" MacBook a
couple years ago, it was meant to replace _both_ product lines. I don't
understand why it's necessary to maintain a third discrete product line. Why
not add a 13" variant to the standard MacBook line with i5 and i7 processor
choices? That would be similar to what they do with the MacBook Pro line.

Is there some other difference that I'm overlooking?

~~~
wild_preference
The Macbook Air also has a fan. The base Macbook does not. The base Macbook
therefor hits its thermal ceiling pretty much immediately and is suboptimal in
hot environments. My girlfriend's overheats all the time.

Frankly, I think the three product lines should be shaped like this:

\- Macbook: For price sensitive people. $800-900 to enter the Apple ecosystem.

\- Macbook Air: Basically the current MBP with its fixation on power capped by
form-factor. (Note: The new Air is _heavier_ than the MBP!)

\- Macbook Pro: A portable workstation that doesn't sacrifice everything for
form factor. Apple doesn't have one of these right now. For example,
prioritizes thermals so that it can sustain max performance instead of the
bursty performance of the current MBPs.

~~~
chemmail
The Macbook has a 4.5W chip and the Macbook Air has a 7W chip now. So you get
2 extra Watts TDP and an extra port. The Air is actually $100 cheaper and 1
inch larger screen effectively obsoleting the Macbook. The Macbook has always
been a weird place, it should really be the budget budget mac, but has always
been a lot more than the Air.

------
andr
Given that 15 minutes later, in the iPad part of the event, they claimed the
new iPad is faster than 92% of all notebooks sold in the last year, the
writing is on the wall. For me, the next Macbook to be excited about, would be
one with an ARM processor.

Still, really disappointing that for the new Air they do not allow you to go
to 1TB SSD, but they won't allow you upgrade from a dual-core i5. Feels like a
political decision more than a technical one.

~~~
minhazm423
>Given that 15 minutes later, in the iPad part of the event, they claimed the
new iPad is faster than 92% of all notebooks sold in the last year, the
writing is on the wall. For me, the next Macbook to be excited about, would be
one with an ARM processor.

hey not a huge technocrat when it comes to pc parts, but could u explain that
part to me?

what is the writing on the wall?

what is arm exactly?

and what makes u think its better than whats being offered currently and that
it will be in a macbook soon?

~~~
kbenson
ARM based processors which are used in most mobile devices and use a different
instruction set, as opposed to x86 based processors, such as those available
from Intel and AMD. Apple licensed the ARM technology and builds their own
chips using it, and really good chips at that. So good, that some people are
now calling for Apple to release an ARM based laptop (which has been done by
others, but not to much popularity).

There would be advantages (power savings) and disadvantages (most existing
MacOS software wouldn't work until recompiled at a minimum)

~~~
beat
Odds are they already have ARM-based Macs in house, with all the cross-
compilation stuff worked out. The reason they haven't made the switch yet
isn't because of work they haven't done.

Back when they switched from the PowerPC chips to x86, it was revealed that
they had been building experimental x86 Macs in-house for years. That's just
good planning.

~~~
kbenson
Oh, I'm fairly sure they've tested all their MacOS core software that comes
with the OS (and the OS), but all the third party stuff and things in the
MacOS app store likely need a lot more time. (at least for those that weren't
already shipping iPhone/iPad versions).

~~~
duskwuff
My expectation is that any ARM laptop/desktop made by Apple would include some
form of x86 emulation, just like they used during their PPC-x86 and 68k-PPC
transitions.

------
koolba
Summarizing a bit:

* Starting price of $1,199

* 13" display with trimmed bezels

* 2.75 lbs

* Higher resolution screen ("Over 4M pixels")

* HD front facing camera

* No Touch Bar (Yay!)

* No USB ports (Boo!)

Assuming it doesn't have any odd dust or logic board issues cropping up in the
next couple months, I can see myself getting one of these.

~~~
dogma1138
And a Dual Core CPU for $1200, app compatibility aside the CPU in the new MBA
might be arguably slower than the A12 bionic.

It's literally going to be the same CPU as in the current 12" Macbooks with a
slightly relaxed power envelope which now begs the question why is the Macbook
Air even a separate product? at this point it brings nothing to the table
other than being slightly larger and slightly cheaper version of the Macbook.

~~~
saagarjha
> It's literally going to be the same CPU as in the current 12" Macbooks with
> a slightly relaxed power envelope

Is it? I was under the impression that these were different chips.

~~~
pinewurst
They are different chips in the sense of being different generations. It's
interesting that the Air is a "Y" part which is the same low-power/lower
performance family as the Macbook. No updates for the Macbook yet otherwise
they probably would be the same.

Macbook 12" 2017 = i7-7Y75 (top spec, cheaper ones are lower clocked i3/i5 Y)

Macbook Air 2018 = i7-8510Y (617 graphics supposedly faster)

~~~
SyneRyder
I'm not sure it's an i7-8510Y - note that the MacBook Air specs [1] say it's
an i5 chip. (And you can't upgrade it to an i7 either.) I'm not sure we know
what chip it actually is yet.

[1] [https://www.apple.com/au/shop/buy-mac/macbook-
air/silver-1.6...](https://www.apple.com/au/shop/buy-mac/macbook-
air/silver-1.6ghz-dual%E2%80%91core-processor-with-turbo-boost-up-
to-3.6ghz-256gb)

~~~
pinewurst
The i7-8510Y is the only one with the specified 617 graphics, but thanks for
pointing out that difference. Maybe they have a slightly lower-spec custom i5
SKU from Intel? I'd be surprised though if it wasn't a Y-device nevertheless.

~~~
SyneRyder
Looks like it's landed in Intel ARK now - i5-8210Y:

[https://ark.intel.com/products/189912/Intel-
Core-i5-8210Y-Pr...](https://ark.intel.com/products/189912/Intel-
Core-i5-8210Y-Processor-4M-Cache-up-
to-3-60-GHz-?q=Intel%c2%ae%20UHD%20Graphics%20617)

~~~
pinewurst
Thanks for posting - that's a pretty big yawn part. The Haswell in my current
old Macbook Pro (a wonderful laptop) beats that easily enough.

------
Ratiofarmings
So they finally removed the last computer with mag safe and a good keyboard
from their lineup. I am not at all happy about that. All this computer needed
was a new cpu, memory and a type-c port.

~~~
tptacek
Magsafe is done. The writing was on the wall when the rMBP switched to USBC.
If you want a magnetic breakaway USBC cable, just buy one.

~~~
prolikewh0a
Are there any breakaway USB-C's that work with 45-65W? Serious question.

~~~
slg
There are, but they aren't good. This [1] still seems to be the best offering
by the most established brand. The reason people want Apple to make them isn't
because they aren't available. It is because a version made by Apple would be
expected to be far superior to anything else on the market. I assume Apple
knows this and is not yet able to deliver on that quality so they simply
aren't offering it.

[1] - [https://www.amazon.com/Griffin-BreakSafe-Magnetic-
Breakaway-...](https://www.amazon.com/Griffin-BreakSafe-Magnetic-Breakaway-
Chromebook/dp/B01CQTK6GU)

~~~
tptacek
That does not square with my recollections of managing a fleet of Macbooks
with Magsafe adapters.

------
drfuchs
Never mind all that; it has an Escape key! (When they dropped it on the latest
MacBook Pro, I feared that this portended its general demise on the whole
laptop line...)

~~~
realradicalwash
on their website / in their video, it has an escape key or am i mistaken?
[https://www.apple.com/macbook-air/](https://www.apple.com/macbook-air/)

~~~
drfuchs
All recent 15 inch and higher-end 13 inch MacBook Pro models come with a
"Touch Bar" where the Escape and Function key row ought to go. Sometimes a
soft button will appear near the left edge of the Touch Bar that says
"Escape", but there's no physical feedback when you touch it, and it doesn't
protrude from the surface of the keyboard housing, nor have any key travel
like the physical keys do, so all-in-all it's funky to touch-type. Not a happy
thing for vim and emacs users, as well as for the korn shell, where it invokes
command completion (as on the Tenex / Tops20 shell, for that matter).

------
wilsonnb3
I’m a bit confused as to where the base model MacBook Pro without the TouchBar
fits into the lineup now.

It was always pretty clear to me that the 12 inch MacBook replaced the 11 inch
air, and the 13 inch MacBook Pro without TouchBar replaced the 13 inch air.

There’s barely any difference between the Pro without TouchBar and the new
Air. The extra hundred dollars for the Pro gets you a slightly older but
faster process at the expense of an additional quarter pound of weight.

~~~
wlesieutre
They didn't update it with the 2018 Macbook Pro refresh, presumably because
this new Air was coming. I'd expect it to quietly disappear.

~~~
wilsonnb3
That makes sense, although it’s a little unfortunate. I would have preferred
they update the Pro instead of releasing the new Air with a weaker processor
and graphics.

------
erikstarck
There's also, finally, a new Mac Mini!

"The most specced-out Mac mini can feature 64 GB RAM, 4.6GHz 6-core Core i7
CPUs, a 2 TB SDD and 10 Gigabit ethernet."

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
Whoa, the internals aren't just a MacBook Air now?

~~~
masklinn
The price has skyrocketed though, entry model is $800 (used to be $500), the
top end with all options is $4200.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
It would be interesting to compare that to an equivalent Intel NUC, my guess
is you are paying a lot for the ability to run macOS.

~~~
vesrah
There aren't NUCs that compare. You can't buy a NUC with an i7 6 core, one
with 64GB of memory, or one with 10GBit.

~~~
detaro
There aren't NUCs that compare _for all variants_.

------
hartator
The current line is a bit weird. MacBook 12” vs MacBook Air 13” vs MacBook Pro
13” without Touch Bar.

I just wish they release a 14” MacBook. That would have made more sense.

~~~
oliv__
Exactly. The Macbook feels out of place now. It has one less USB-C port, less
battery power, and is $100 more expensive with lesser specs.

And it has a different name. Before this new Air came out, I figured they were
just going to kill the Air line and release a 13" Macbook at a cheaper price.
(Which is essentially what this is)

~~~
reaperducer
_The Macbook feels out of place now_

Think of it as an entry-level, but fully capable Mac. For people who use their
phone almost exclusively, but need a computer once or twice a month for work.

That's exactly how my wife uses hers.

~~~
teddyfrozevelt
But now the entry level Macbook Air is better than the Macbook in every way
except the base storage level.

~~~
Dunedan
The 12" MacBook is still better in terms of portability.

------
halotrope
I just got a surface book 2 after having trouble adjusting to the touch bar
mbp. It is not perfect in any way but everything I care about (thermals,
battery, performance, keyboard) got so much better. WSL is a good enough shell
replacement and windows as a whole feels more productive. The touch and tablet
mode is surprisingly handy. It is weird but after 10 years die-hard mac user I
don’t feel it no more. No matter how hard I try, iOS keeps being a toy (media
consumption/browsing) and mac has the wrong priorities. Maybe that changes
with next years Pro lineup. Right now I am a refugee in the Microsoft
ecosystem. And I like it.

~~~
jazzyjackson
Funny, I just got a 2017 Macbook Air because Windows 10 was annoying me with
news-in-my-start-menu and a change in how start-button-search worked from all
the previous Windows OSes.

WSL got me used to using bash in my daily work flow, but having a Darwin
system with unix in its bones is heaven to me.

Funny how tastes can change :)

------
chx
> 1.6GHz dual-core Intel Core i5, Turbo Boost up to 3.6GHz, with 4MB L3
> cache... Intel UHD Graphics 617

[https://twitter.com/tum_apisak/status/1034639298174148608](https://twitter.com/tum_apisak/status/1034639298174148608)
it's a custom chip made for Apple. Look at the other Amber Lake Y chips:
[https://ark.intel.com/products/codename/186968/Amber-
Lake-Y](https://ark.intel.com/products/codename/186968/Amber-Lake-Y) they have
lower base but higher Turbo and UHD 615 not UHD 617.

~~~
geoelectric
Any idea how these compare to the 2.9Ghz dual core i7 in the 2015 MacBook Pro
13"?

I'm expecting these to be slower, but have no concept of what an apples to
apples comparison looks like there since clock speed can be so misleading
between generations. Ditto the UHD 617 vs. Iris 6100, for that matter.

~~~
chx
> since clock speed can be so misleading between generations

I am sorry but no. They haven't been misleading for a long, long time. IPC
grew from Sandy Bridge to Kaby Lake only by 20%
[https://www.hardocp.com/article/2017/01/13/kaby_lake_7700k_v...](https://www.hardocp.com/article/2017/01/13/kaby_lake_7700k_vs_sandy_bridge_2600k_ipc_review/4)
and since then nothing because Intel is barely doing more than tweaking the
Turbo profiles because 10nm is not happening. All these years the progress was
more in power consumption than anything else. Note how ThinkPads (and the
world) moved from 35W dual core to 15W dual core chips. So if you compare them
clock to clock you won't be far. But you don't know what clock of the chip
actually will be because the problem with Y CPUs the problem always was: how
good is the cooling, how long are they are able to maintain their top Turbo
before throttling. Noone can say as there are no Amber Lake laptops yet and
much less an Apple. What we can say with surety is even if it has exceptional
great cooling it can only keep up with the 5557U in single core, in multi core
performance it'll be half at best.

The UHD 617 is not officially launched but
[https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-HD-615-Mobile-
Ka...](https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-HD-615-Mobile-Kaby-Lake-vs-
Intel-Iris-Pro-HD-6100-Mobile/m193629vsm25925) the Iris Pro is a different
class to the HD 615. I do not expect anything groundbreaking between the HD
615 and the 617. Check the difference between 610 and 615:
[https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel--
HD-610-Desktop-...](https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel--
HD-610-Desktop-Kaby-Lake-vs-Intel-HD-615-Mobile-Kaby-Lake/m225196vsm193629)

~~~
geoelectric
Awesome, thanks for this and the context around clock speed not being quite as
misleading anymore modulo thermal throttling.

My takeaway here is that my 2015 MBP13 will still blow away a new MBA then, so
no reason to upgrade.

Edit: the GPU comparison may be off, though. MBP13 used an Iris 6100, not an
Iris Pro. Problem is I can't find official reference anywhere to an Iris Pro
6100, so have no idea what's reporting for this benchmark. What I do know is
the Iris 6100 benched worse than the Iris Pro 5200, whereas this IP6100 in the
link benches better.

------
cribbles
We're inching ever so gradually toward idlewords's 2016 piece "Benjamin Button
Reviews The New MacBook Pro".[1]

[1]
[https://blog.pinboard.in/2016/10/benjamin_button_reviews_the...](https://blog.pinboard.in/2016/10/benjamin_button_reviews_the_new_macbook_pro/)

~~~
PhasmaFelis
Reminds me of the "Upgrade to Windows 7" article that was doing the rounds
when Windows 8 was big.

~~~
GolDDranks
I feel that both were appropriate. I think that Windows 7 was in many ways,
better than Windows 8; the MacBook Pros before the 2016 redesign were in many
ways, better than the ones after that.

I'm sure there will be a design that will be better than the 2015 model (Which
I recently bought, second hand, after using the 2016 one for a bit over a
year.) But we haven't seen it yet. Similarily, I'd rather use the modern
Windows 10 rather than Windows 7. But Windows 8 or Windows 10 at its
inception? Heck no.

------
berbec
Pros: Thinner, lighter, better display, thunderbolt, 8th-generation chip,
headphone jack(!)

Cons: Still dual core, no USB-A, no magsafe.

Would buy, and I'm a Lenovo fanboy. I just love the Airs.

Does anyone know if you can install Linux onto the newer Macs with the T2
chip? Or is it locked to osX^H^H^HmacOS?

~~~
danieldk
_Cons: Still dual core, no USB-A, no magsafe._

And still the butterfly mechanism. And apparently, specks of dust also affect
the latest iteration:

[https://theoutline.com/post/6409/the-new-and-improved-
macboo...](https://theoutline.com/post/6409/the-new-and-improved-macbook-
keyboards-have-the-same-old-problems?zd=1&zi=uxnezkmg)

I have been waiting for a good replacement for my MacBook Pro 2016. But this
is not it. Still too few ports, still the risk of sticky keys. And given that
the base model with 128GB is $1199, after the upgrade to 256GB and adding the
Europe tax, it's not going to be that much more affordable than the MacBook
Pro (assuming that they update the MBP Escape as well).

It's great that they have finally updated the Mac Mini though! The pricing is
a bit steeper than previous models, but they stuck with the nice old
unassuming design, no wild experiments. Just the same old box with updated
innards. Well done.

~~~
mobilio
Everything is OK except keyboard...

~~~
sometime
The Carbon X1 6G is 120 grams lighter and has much more ports. Gonna leave
Apple for good. The MacBook Air was an amazing machine for the past 8 years,
but Apple lost its way. Too many cargo cults (slimness, few ports, radical
changes, secretiveness, to name a few) and too little closeness to their
customers (poor repairability, high prices, unwanted features).

~~~
eastbayjake
I just priced out the Carbon X1 with similar CPU/RAM/SSD and it costs $1331
(vs $1399) -- plus the Lenovo has a slightly larger screen with lower weight
and normal USB ports. I don't think it moves the needle for Mac fans, but it
definitely moves the needle for people who are ambivalent between the two.

~~~
cauthon
Not sure the specs you're looking at, but Costco had a deal on the X1 with 16
GB RAM + 512 GB SSD for $1399 earlier in the month, and I think it's $1499 now

------
whywhywhywhy
> the new model comes with the latest-generation edition of Apple's
> "butterfly" keyboard

Maybe it was naive of me but I had high hopes Apple would use the Air refresh
as an upgrade path for those of us who have decided they need a keyboard with
more travel and reliability beyond a few months.

(I use a 2017 butterfly keyboard today, never again)

~~~
jschmitz28
Any info on whether the 2018 keyboard update fares much better [1]? I’m
seriously considering buying this MBA, but I’m happy with the travel and
durability on my 2011 MBA keyboard and primarily spooked by the butterfly
keyboard complaints.

[1] [https://www.macrumors.com/roundup/macbook-
pro/#keyboard](https://www.macrumors.com/roundup/macbook-pro/#keyboard)

~~~
gumby
I had a lot of problems with my 2016 keyboard (repaired four times and getting
ready for a fifth when it took an unplanned drink of water).

I now have a 2018 MBP and the keyboard is really reliable and actually pretty
great.

~~~
freehunter
I recently got a 2018 for work and I'm enjoying the keyboard. I like clicky
keyboards with low travel, I think it makes touch typing easier and I have to
move my fingers up and down less. After going back to my 2015, the keys on the
older one feel mushy and not as clicky, and I tend to drag my fingertips
across the tops of the keys because they have more travel.

I never used a 2016/2017 keyboard though so I can only compare 2018 to 2015,
and I like the 2018.

------
briffle
| It will start at $1,199, which is a slight jump from the $999 starting price
of the older MacBook Air.

apparently, a 20% increase is a 'slight jump'

~~~
MIKarlsen
I'm so bummed out by this. Rumours had me hyped for a cheaper package, but
seeing as it's 1599 USD in my country, I will not be looking into buying one
now.

------
diegorbaquero
If only Apple could make their Pro line without Touch Bar but with Pro specs,
that'd be nice

~~~
dayvough
I was kinda disappointed they didn't touch the MBP lineup this time around but
hey we might get something come WWDC.

~~~
AlphaSite
It did get updated not 3 months ago.

~~~
danieldk
Except for the MacBook Pro Escape, which didn't get a refresh, nor the
butterfly mechanism update.

------
tqi
Been a long time since I bought a new computer. How should I think about /
compare the processor options of the new MBA[1] and the non-touchbar MBP[2]?
I've seen the passmark results, but have no idea how to interpret.

[1]: 8th Gen 1.6-GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 [2]: 7th Gen 2.3GHz dual-core
Intel Core i5

~~~
wodenokoto
I've been scratching my head on that point too. Apple's spec page list the MBA
processor to have "4MB L3 cache", while the MBP non-touch bar processor is
listed as having "64MB of eDRAM".

I mean, 64 sounds better than 4, but are these things even comparable? is
eDram something you have next to L3 cache or instead?

~~~
Dunedan
The eDRAM is mainly for the integrated GPU and an addition to the L3 cache.
It's also only available for a few selected Intel CPUs, which usually have
higher graphics performance. As Wikipedia puts it [1]:

> The 128 MB of eDRAM in the Iris Pro GT3e is on the same package as the CPU,
> but in a separate die manufactured in a different process. Intel refers to
> this as a Level 4 cache, available to both CPU and GPU, naming it
> Crystalwell.

[1]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Graphics_Technology#IRIS...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Graphics_Technology#IRIS-
PRO)

------
emdowling
Why is the 12 inch MacBook still in the line-up? The only benefit is that it
offers an i7 processor at the top-end - beyond that, I can't see any benefit.
Why not just unify the two lines?

~~~
masklinn
> The only benefit is that it offers an i7 processor at the top-end

That's not _really_ a benefit since it uses a 5W i7 (formerly m7) versus — I
assume — a 15W i5 on the Air, it's just Intel's shitty branding confusion.

The 12" is quite a bit lighter (2.03 lbs to 2.75), is fanless, and has a
smaller footprint (width of 11.04" to 11.97" and depth of 7.74" to 8.36").

That's pretty much it.

The Air has touchid, likely better performances, seemingly a better display,
higher storage options, more ports, _better_ ports (12" only has USB-C, MBA
has TB3), more battery life.

------
Splendor
Aside from losing magsafe this is my perfect Mac.

~~~
rbanffy
The other day two MBPs were running out of battery during a meeting. We
plugged one into the room charger and plugged the second one out of another
USB-C port on the first one.

I miss MagSafe, but USB-C is seriously cool.

~~~
xutopia
Wait... you can charge a MBP with another MBP?

~~~
sbuk
Absolutely. I still lament the retirement of magsafe, but USB-C is a
considerably better standard than USB-A.

------
nkkollaw
Sure, but it has the horrible butterfly keyboard--with those crammed up arrows
I hate so much--and all ports are gone.

Also, how do we kniw they'll stay without releasing another one for another 5
years?

As a MacBook Air user for years, I'm glad I jumped ship a year ago.

~~~
gootdude
What did you replace it with?

Would love to upgrade with something as reliable as this 2013 Air I've been
abusing everyday for years.

I'd give anything for a windows laptop with the trackpad and reliable
sleep/hibernate you get from osx/apple laptops.

~~~
ericabiz
Not the person you replied to, but look at a Dell XPS 13 or a Lenovo X1
Carbon. I have been recommending the XPS 13 to our customers and they love it.

------
seane
Genuine question:

Why would someone choose the new MacBook Air over the 12" Macbook? I have the
12" (it's my everyday computer and I love it, not looking to switch) but
wondering why choose one over the other, size of screen? Thanks.

~~~
scarface74
A second port and it should be noticeably faster.

~~~
Latteland
one usb-c port on the smaller macbook was of course just a silly stupid idea.
But I think 2 is less good than 3 or 4. I'd rather have multiple. next apple
needs to convert the phone to use usb-c so we can all move over to one port
type.

~~~
Bluestrike2
With the iPad Pro now using USB-C, I think it's a given that the next iPhone
will do the same. If only my next Kindle would do the same.

~~~
rpilgrimr
another possibility is that it will not have any ports at all. BT, WiFI and Qi
for wireless charging.

------
mark_l_watson
Nice option for people who love the form factor, if somewhat expensive. I was
surprised that it weighs about 3/4 of a pound more than a MacBook, but then it
is a 13” screen rather than a 12” screen.

I have had computers since before I bought an early Apple II (I had a single
board Intersil PDP-8 emulator board) and I must say that my MacBook is my
favorite computer ever. I am not sure why someone would buy the new MacBook
Air over a MacBook.

------
lostgame
I'm a little upset we are now without a $1000 ($999) introductory-level Apple
notebook.

Even though it was gloriously underpowered, it still presented an entry-level
device for students and those generally with less cash.

The extra $200 also makes the differential between the 'Air' and the standard
'MacBook'...well, um...can anyone specifically tell me the differences, even?

~~~
IkmoIkmo
I mean, it's still for sale, the original Macbook Air, it's just a horribly
outdated machine now. It's got a 5th generation (2015) CPU, 128 PPI (what),
and bezels as thick as your thumb.

It's still a great little thing, the battery life is just great for ordinary
casual use. It's thin... but I feel it belongs in 2013, was still nice for a
few years after, but approaching 2019 this thing should have gotten a real
replacement.

And replacing it with something $200 more expensive (that itself is quite
similar to the 12 inch Macbook anyway, which caters to a higher-end casual-
user segment), when the air is supposed to be a cheap entry-level product for
the lower-end casual-user segment like students... Can't say I like it.

It feels we didn't get a replacement for relatively cheap entry level Macbook
Air, but rather got a new expensive alternative to the expensive Macbook.

If they dropped the original Air and dropped this price down to $1100 next
year, I think that'd be okay. But really I was hoping for another $1000 Air.
And I don't see it happening. $1200 will be the new normal for a modern entry
level Apple machine.

------
johnchristopher
> Apple says the new Air takes up 17-percent less volume than the past model.

Do anyone really care at this point ? I'd rather have those 17% filled with
batteries or storage.

Do people really choose a laptop based on its dimensions ? (I don't mean the
transportable laptop vs ultrabook).

> Apple says the display now has a 2560×1600 resolution and 48-percent more
> color than the prior model.

Just goes to show how terrible the previous screen was I suppose. /s

> It will start at $1,199, which is a jump from the $999 starting price of the
> older MacBook Air.

So, no more $1000 usable laptop in the apple ecosystem ? That kinda sucks. I
though the brand was declining and that would open up Apple to lower its
prices.

If technology is going forward then why does it get more expensive ?

------
a13n
Looks like the same shitty keyboard as the MacBook Pro. At least there's an
escape key...

------
Wildgoose
Too late.

I was an Apple user for years but I recently purchased an AMD Ryzen based
development box which I am extremely happy with.

My iPhone SE will be my last iPhone as well - I won't purchase an expensive
mobile 'phone that lacks something as basic as a headphone jack.

~~~
ratfaced-guy
Nobody cares about headphone jacks.

~~~
aaaaaaaaaab
I do.

~~~
2muchcoffeeman
I recently bought wireless headphones. I have a small collection is wired
headphones.

Given that Apple, Google and reportedly Samsung have done away with it, and
everyone still buys their phones, you have to ask yourself, how long will you
hold out?

~~~
aaaaaaaaaab
Forever. I prefer lossless music.

Not that I won’t buy an iPhone without one, as long as there’s lightning-to-
jack, but I do find its removal misguided.

------
themihai
Nice... but still the same dual core? Shame!

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
They're constrained by TDP. The MacBook Air draws too little power (thus
having good battery life!) for a quad-core CPU to make sense.

~~~
rhodysurf
They also probably dont want to cannibalize the MBP which is like the same
computer but quad core

------
Psrajan
It's pretty much the 2017 nTB MBP in a slightly changed chassis with touchID
and 8th generation chips added. Now we know why they didn't refresh the nTB
this year. Eventually, the price is the same.

------
exabrial
"Finally"? I don't think anyone is clamoring for the touch bar. The TouchID is
fairly useful, but the only time I ever use the Touchbar is accidental.

~~~
publicfig
It doesn't come with the Touch Bar, just Touch ID as an independent key

~~~
exabrial
OH, nice! I guess I didn't pay good enough attention to the pics! This is
actually pretty close to what I want!

------
Matthias247
The difference to the entry level MacBook Pro seems very minimal. The form
factor is pretty much 100% identical - the Pro even is listed to be thinner
overall on the tech specs (0.59" vs 0.61), even though the Air is slightly
thinner at the front. So it seems like the difference is 100$ price, 100g
weight, and a slightly slower CPU.

------
ianamartin
I don't love it, but between this and the mac mini update, I think Apple is
back on a more reasonable path.

The overall laptop lineup makes actual sense now if you pretend that the
macbook and macbook pro without touchbar models don't exist. And I suspect
that they won't exist much longer.

The only thing you get for an extra hundred dollars for the macbook Pro escape
is a higher base speed processor with the same turbo boost on an older
generation chip and Iris Graphics vs UHD. Worse battery life. Heavier. No
touchID. Same thunderbolt 3 ports.

The macbook is even more of an anemic joke now. I guess if you really have to
have the thinnest and lightest mac laptop possible, this one's for you.

But pretend for a moment that those confusing models aren't in the lineup, and
the whole thing starts to make sense after they get EOL'd. The new MBA handles
the low end competently. There's some gray area when you upgrade it to 16GB
rams and 512GB SSD. That's the same price as the entry level 13" macbook pro
with touchbar. But now you get real differentiation between the Air and Pro
line. 4 thunderbolt 3 ports, 2 core vs 4 core. Higher base and boost clock
speed; same generation chip. True-tone display. Option to upgrade the
processor.

What sticks out to me the most here is how completely hamstrung Apple is by
Intel right now. There should be a 32gig RAM option for the 13". But it's a
different architecture than what they have on the 15" models that do support
it, and they couldn't cram into the 13" form factor.

It's not ideal. USB-C is still a shitshow, and I wish you could opt for at
least one step up in processor. But it's actually better than I expected. They
also didn't completely ruin the mac mini. They gave us pretty much what we
wanted out of that. So overall, I'm pretty pleased with the direction. I just
can't decide if I should wait another couple years to see more of that
direction until the macbook pros get a redesign with these ideas or if I can
live with this MBA as an upgrade from my older stuff for now.

My biggest concern was that every new design and product matrix since the
trashcan mac pro has been a massive, "WTF are you thinking, Apple?" This makes
me feel like they've figured some things out about what people want out of
their Macs. Or made the leadership decision to listen to what they already
knew people wanted. The next gen pro should be very exciting.

------
YetAnotherNick
I think the entry level macbook pro is better buy than this. For $100, the CPU
is much better, and very likely the build quality too. And everything else
including weight, keyboard, ports, battery life etc. mostly the same.

~~~
whatsthatyousay
The Air has the 8th generation i5 which seems to be a solid upgrade in
benchmarks [https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/Intel-i5-8250U-vs-
Intel...](https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/Intel-i5-8250U-vs-
Intel-i5-7200U/3042vs2865)

------
cauthon
In 2014 I bought a Macbook Pro with retina display, 2.6 GHz i5 processor, 8 GB
of RAM, and 128 GB SSD for $1300.

In 2018 I can buy a Macbook Pro with retina display, 2.3 GHz i5 processor, 8
GB of RAM, and 128 GB SSD for $1300 (and now you have to buy dongles).

In 2018 I can also now buy a Macbook Air with retina display, 1.6 GHz i5
processor, 8 GB of RAM, and 128 GB SSD for $1200.

I don't really understand what market this Air is hoping to target. The
Macbook Pros are already winning the ultraportable category, and the Air
doesn't offer any significant price differentiation.

I thought in 2014-2015 the "Apple premium" wasn't actually too bad for the
specs compared to equivalent laptops from the competition. Unfortunately their
hardware offerings have stagnated over the past four years and they are again
overpriced for what you're buying.

~~~
notatoad
>I don't really understand what market this Air is hoping to target.

i'm assuming it's meant to target the people buying the $1300 macbook pro, so
they can get rid of that model and ratchet up the prices of the pro models
while still having a 13" laptop that works for most poeple.

------
aceshades
Do people actually like the butterfly keys on the keyboard? They may have
fixed the issues, but it still feels like crap every time I try it.

------
zapnuk
How does the CPU compare to the 7gen i5 of the 2017 non-TB MBP?

Otherwise they have basically the same specs - with the MBP being a bit more
expensive.

------
plantain
So is the Macbook 12 dead now?

~~~
saagarjha
No, it's still sold.

~~~
plantain
Dead as in, has no future.

------
shamino
A lot of people seem to forget that Apple is a luxury brand. Their tech is not
going to be the latest. Does Louis Vuitton care about the latest fabric ? No,
cuz you're gonna pay a lot for it anyways!

------
gao8a
Does anyone know if this will support egpu?

~~~
rsln-s
It does

------
SlowRobotAhead
So TouchID is good enough for laptop but they “just can’t” make a phone with
it anymore huh? Rabble.

~~~
benrbray
I never really understood fingerprint scanners on phones. Is it really more
useful to you than e.g. a headphone jack?

~~~
lbotos
I mean, I have a 6s which has a headphone jack and a fingerprint scanner.
Happy as a clam. I have "wake on lift" on and I grab it by the bottom quadrant
and touch id works 90% of the time.

I really want the better camera of the newest iphone, but I am weary of face
ID and I really don't want bluetooth headphones. I already lose headphones a
ton as it is.

~~~
gehsty
FaceID is rock solid...Both it and TouchID have there ups and downs but FaceID
has been great since day 1 with the X.

100% agree with the bluetooth headphones. I have lost multiple pairs. AirPods
are now something I have to track in my day to day carry... Phone / keys /
wallet / AirPods... which is a little annoying.

------
_Codemonkeyism
The Air of my wife was the worst computer we've owned, yellow display with
dark areas, Wifi basically doesn't work anywhere and trackpad broken in a
short amount of time.

~~~
mediocrejoker
Do you and your wife live underground, in an active coal mine? If not you must
admit that your experience is atypical for that computer.

~~~
_Codemonkeyism
I've owned several dozen Apple products, iPods, iPhones, iPads, from
XSans/XServers, Cubes, Minis, maxed out Macbook Pros and a dozen iMacs, and no
the experience is not atypical for Apple. Many people I know have problems
with bad iPhone and MacBookPro Wifi reception. This development iMac Pro I'm
writing this on feels slow, often has a beach ball and crashes randomly. The
27 iMac before this had fan problems from the start.

Also see
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUaJ8pDlxi8&t=526s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUaJ8pDlxi8&t=526s)

------
Wowfunhappy
The old 13 Inch Macbook Air had a resolution of 1440 x 900.

The new Macbook Air has a resolution of 2560 x 1600, but at 200% dpi scaling,
so the usable resolution is only 1280 x 800. It'll be prettier for sure, but
you're getting less screen real-estate than on the old models!

You can adjust the dpi scaling, but then the scaling won't be even and
everything will look a bit blurry. I honestly would have much preferred a
straight 1080p screen.

~~~
yubiox
With the Display Menu app you choose from lots of resolutions. They are not
blurry whatsoever. I use 4096x2304 on 27" retina imac, 2880x1800 on 15" retina
mbp, and 2304x1440 on 12" retina mb. Plenty of real estate.

~~~
Wowfunhappy
It's a subtle difference that not everyone will notice, but the icons will not
be quite as sharp at these alternate resolutions due to uneven pixel scaling.
The icons were drawn for a specific resolution, not the in between ones. This
is also why System Preferences marks one resolution as best for the display.

I can absolutely see the difference on the iMac I use at work, unfortunately.

