
What I would like to see from Microsoft regarding OSS - philliphaydon
http://www.philliphaydon.com/2013/04/what-i-would-like-to-see-from-microsoft-regarding-oss
======
MatthewPhillips
I was going to say stop using the Ms-PL[1] license but when I checked both ASP
MVC[2] and TypeScript[3] are licensed under Apache. Good decision.

[1]<http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/openness/licenses.aspx>

[2]<http://aspnetwebstack.codeplex.com/license>

[3]<http://typescript.codeplex.com/license>

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xradionut
The problem isn't just the relationship that Microsoft has with OSS, but with
developers in general. As developer in their "ecosystem" for years, I've come
to the conclusion that the majority of the Redmond management is totally out
of touch with the third party developers. Crap like Windows 8, "flat"
interfaces, abandonment of APIs, NIH, reinventing the wheel, ignoring requests
and feedback, etc, doesn't make it better.

~~~
afreak
I think that you can say this about Apple too. Here's my rewrite of your
statement:

"The problem isn't just the relationship that Apple has with OSS, but with
developers in general. As developer in their "ecosystem" for years, I've come
to the conclusion that the majority of the Cupertino management is totally out
of touch with the third party developers. Crap like Mac OS X, "round"
interfaces, abandonment of APIs, NIH, reinventing the wheel, ignoring requests
and feedback, etc, doesn't make it better."

My mindset is that any mainstream, large vendor is going to have these traits.

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rbanffy
\- License the complete .NET stack under an Apache license.

\- Disclose the patents they allege Linux infringes.

\- Apologize for what they did to ISO.

\- Make the ability to add personal keys to secure boot a requirement for
having a Windows logo.

~~~
cooldeal
>Make the ability to add personal keys to secure boot a requirement for having
a Windows logo

Sigh, that's already the requirement.

If I had a cent for every poster that is ignorant about secure boot but rants
against it as if they are a guru, I'd be very rich. Why so many tech savvy
folks are clueless when it comes to Secure Boot, I will never know. These
facts are known from over a year, but the FUDsters have succeeded in fudging
the facts and spreading mistruths.

~~~
wildfire
It is??

Great, how do I do this on my Windows Surface (ARM) device?

~~~
nivla
Gosh, ARM devices are different from x86 ones. Almost all ARM devices are
vendor locked. If you are interested in knowing how to do this on a Surface
Pro (A.K.A a x86 device), I can help you out.

~~~
rbanffy
> Almost all ARM devices are vendor locked.

It seems I have an odd sample over my desk. There are 4 ARM-based devices on
it, all of them are unlocked.

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eksith
One area they still have a stronghold is in Office and productivity software.
There was an entry on HN about this :

[http://linuxaria.com/article/the-biggest-failure-in-open-
sou...](http://linuxaria.com/article/the-biggest-failure-in-open-source-
is?lang=en)

If any of those were to be made open source, MS would effectively corner the
open source office market as well. I'm not holding my breath though.

I'm actually shocked at how quickly the Microsoft stack in my daily work has
now gone down in use from where it was only about 5 years ago. With the
exception of Office as in above and Windows for Photoshop (almost daily use)
and Visual Studio (some projects still need it), the rest is entirely Open
Source from OS and on. Currently I'm using Mint and Debian with OpenBSD on the
side.

As much as people bash MS for all sorts of (well deserved) things, the bottom
line is that they do get a lot of things right. It's not just political
wrangling that allow them to stay in business, obviously, since if the
products are really lacking too much, they'd be hurting too. I do think the
culture in the company is changing, hopefully for the better.

Edit: I think, by and large Windows 8 is a mistake, but not in the way it was
designed. The way it was marketed. Win 8 makes sense on mobile/touch devices
and no where else. And that's all I have to say about that. Hopefully, they
don't plan on keeping the trend into the next version of Windows, but we'll
see.

Even though joysticks are arguably a better means of control, there's a reason
cars still have steering wheels.

~~~
jussij
> corner the open source market

Once you've "corner the open source" market what does that get you?

I assume Red Hat has "corner the open source" Linux server market and the're
earnings are nothing compared to MS.

This is a serious question, what do you get when you've cornered any open
source market?

Google cornered the Android market until Samsung made billions from Google's
efforts.

~~~
pjmlp
This is what is so hard for many FOSS fans to understand.

The ecosystem has only expanded to the extent big corporations are willing to
invest money on it.

If IBM, Google and others had not invested into FOSS as a means to help them
sell services, most likely the situation would be quite similar to the mid
80's, in what concerns software development tools.

In the markets where you cannot sell services, it is very hard to make a
living from FOSS.

~~~
icebraining
Why do you say this is hard for FOSS fans to understand?

~~~
pjmlp
Many dream of a world where all software is FOSS.

The point is, only corporations pay for FOSS in form of SaaS, consulting,
support contracts or trainings.

Usually the only way consumers pay for FOSS is when buying hardware with FOSS
inside.

However if you plan to create a company developing products that are software
based, where the average developer salary would be around € 1500 netto, quite
normal in many European countries, it will be very hard to keep the company
afloat when targeting markets outside what I mentioned above.

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jiggy2011
It would be lovely for MS to promote alternative open source frameworks and
make it as easy as possible for .Net shops to use them.

That way .Net programmers will get a nice cost saving when someone inevitably
ports the whole lot over to Mono/Linux.

------
axemclion
More about Microsoft and OSS - <https://github.com/MSOpenTech>

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groke
Next up, "What I would like to see from North Korea regarding South Korea."

Seriously guys, this is a day late.

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Toshio
The best thing that company can do about OSS is (drumroll) ...

... STOP the SecureBoot madness!

~~~
kunai
To be honest, the FUD over Secure Boot is really reaching a fever pitch, and
for no reason, as well.

Just turn it off in the UEFI settings and install as much Linux, BSD, or GNU
that you want. It really is not a big deal.

~~~
pfraze
A quick google shows you're right! That's some pretty bad FUD if there's
nothing else to this. Is there something about Secure Boot that turning it off
doesn't solve?

~~~
icebraining
There's no turning it off on some platforms (ARM).

------
camus
use more open protocols , open standards , be in favor of inter-operability ,
especially regarding all your "office" and business tools and stack.

