
Ask HN: What are the early signs of the company in trouble? - cryptozeus
Has any of your detected early signs of trouble at your company and were able to move out to better opportunities before shit hit the fan ? What were the earlier signs , what would you look for ?<p>Over 6 months ago, our &quot;C&quot; team was shaken up. Since then almost all execs have been let go or left. No layoffs have been announced and no big news have come up. Current execs are saying not worry about anything, this is a public company.<p>The reason I dont want to jump the gun too quickly is because great internal projects are starting up and its a good opportunity for me to grow here.<p>Thanks
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patrickmcmanus
as they say - there are many reasons a company can succeed, but they all fail
for the same reason. (they run out of money).

So cash is king - follow the signs of cash flow.

#1 - watch the sales staff. Their comp is a direct reflection of the company's
cash flow. They will leave if the source is running dry and they don't need
inside information to figure it out.

#2 - hiring freeze. Classic bad sign. This is a little different than reaching
hiring targets - if there is no backfill for attrition though, its a flashing
red light.

#3 - travel freeze. Often the first lever pulled by the operations team - its
a tell there are cash problems.

C level shakeups are not great indicators. Could be a real problem, but it
could also just be powerplay fallout.

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cryptozeus
Good points 1,2 & 3 has not happened yet.

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Paraesthetic
As someone who is currently working in employment law (So I'm not exactly the
expert on the executive side) I'd say that make sure you keep a keen eye on
what else is out there, if other companies like yours are putting up lots of
jobs then the industry is healthy and you typically have less to worry about
from a microeconomic standpoint. I have found that when a company is doing
badly, either their industry is bad and suffering across the board, or there
are some obvious signs with people leaving.

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dccoolgai
One telltale sign I've noticed is when you see a bunch of fimancial/sales-side
staffers and higherups leave of their own accord in suspiciously rapid
succession. Have a general idea of who would know better and watch what they
do.

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cryptozeus
Yeh that happened

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tarr11
Previously:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12373794](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12373794)

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gota
Also very similar discussion at the Workplace StackExchange:
[https://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/61431/how-
can-...](https://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/61431/how-can-i-tell-
when-im-working-on-a-sinking-ship/61435)

The most voted (and accepted) answer has this:

"Sudden VP and director-level resignations. (C-Levels usually ride the ship
down.)"

Which is not what you are experiencing, right?

Some practical things from the answer that I find interesting:

"Accounting staff re-arranging their offices to keep workstation displays
hidden."

and

"Office consumables (pens, paper, coffee, etc.) inventory not being replaced."

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shoo
> Over 6 months ago, our "C" team was shaken up. Since then almost all execs
> have been let go or left

anecdote: I'm aware of a public financial company that roughly did this a few
years ago, followed amongst other things by restructuring - making everyone
reapply for a job, possibly changing role, possibly taking a voluntary
redundancy payout (at least a few people wanted to stay but it would have been
a silly financial decision not to take the payout). also followed by a greater
emphasis on attempting to modernize IT & internal development capability.

so I wouldn't necessarily attempt to generalise too much from the observation
of the C suite churning. Might depend on _why_ the previous exec team churned.
Did they lose the support of some powerful stakeholders? Were they a bit
complacent and self serving?

No doubt there are other examples where the C suite churning was a prelude to
a mess

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lsiebert
If a company increases benefits/bonuses but doesn't increase pay, it may
indicate that they don't believe increases in cash flow will continue. It's
easier to cut both benefits and bonuses then to cut pay.

Oh, and investors will sue public companies if they don't get accurate info,
whereas you probably have an arbitration agreement making that unlikely. So
check what the company is telling investors, since it's public.

It doesn't hurt to look at other jobs. You can always circle back around to
any interested companies if things at your current company doesn't seem right.

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lacker
If it's a public company, there are many indicators you can look at. You can
just look at the quarterly reports, for example, to see how they project
revenues and headcount. The "C" team being shaken up is probably not the most
effective data that you have at your disposal.

What company is it? If it's a public company you are not really revealing your
identity by revealing the company.

~~~
cryptozeus
Yeh I am trying to avoid naming the company just in case...financials are
definitely not looking good but that is part of the business...good points
though!

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geoelectric
It shuts down.

I'm being a little flippant, but also a little serious. Sometimes you get
credible warnings. Sometimes it just comes out of the blue, because it's in
management's best interest to keep any impending issues very quiet.

It's good to be looking for these things, but in my experience as soon as your
spidey sense goes off, you should have an eye on what's next.

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sharmi
* Lots of infighting, blame flinging and politics

* No pride in what they develop or ship. A despondent attitude towards product

These are all symptoms of something seriously wrong at the top mgmt and in the
marketability of the product. As long as this is not addressed, there is no
way the company is gonna survive.

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gesman
>>>"C" team was shaken up

That's the best answer to your question

