
God complex of executive recruiters - codetalks
So, I have been working with exec recruiters in the Valley to land a VP&#x2F;Director type job in SF startups.  Seems like most of this recruitment happens thru&#x27; exec recruiters, who act as brokers between founders (mostly hackers with little management background) and candidates.  Seems like in the name of &quot;coaching&quot; the founders, a lot of BS goes on.<p>Exec recruiters focus on how many direct reports the candidate has managed.  
As a guy who has managed ~50 engineers, the number doesn&#x27;t matter (except in big company political disputes).  The key issue that is relevant is if a candidate has managed managers (&#x27;cos thats when people learn how to delegate).<p>Recruiters don&#x27;t really care about the candidate&#x27;s tech chops.  To be fair, they are not capable of evaluating people from that angle.  &quot;Code talks&quot; and if a VP Engg can&#x27;t code, don&#x27;t think the company can succeed.  Knowing scrum process is good, but process is not the output of a company (product is).<p>Recruiters also represent multiple clients at the same time, so there is an incentive mismatch.  The focus is on maximizing commission, not getting the founders to talk to the right candidates.<p>Seems like the exec recruiting business is stuck in the country club mindset and outdated notions.  Wish AngelList does a better job w&#x2F; handling exec positions.<p>I m using a temp HN a&#x2F;c, since I am in the middle of interviewing &amp; dont want to offend anyone.
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jesusmichael
I would agree with you... However you need to look at it from the recruiters
perspective too..

The perm fee is typically paid w/ guarantees. Usually that the candidate stays
for 6 months to a year. So you see the recruiter is looking for someone that
has dealt with the politics of a large organization, and can be diplomatic and
not get himself fired before the refundable portion of the perm fee seasons.

Code, that's the company's problem... The recruiter doesn't care if the guy
can actually do the job, they are only matching experience to requirements,
and then coaching the CEO on who historically sticks around to take more of
the investors $$$..

The problem is not with the recruiters... its with CEO/Founders etc that have
no experience hiring people and who aren't good managers to begin with. The
best coder may not be the best VP's of engineering.

If you're trying to get a VP job without VP experience well what makes you
ready for such a position? What have you done to be entrusted with the heart
of a company? You have to show someone that... or make it easy for them to say
yes... (that means lower your salary requirements, take more on the backend)..
any who

Hope that helps..

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codetalks
Wasnt aware of the fees aspect. Good to know that side of the equation.

My point is that a VPE has to be good a managing/politics/delegation and also
be technical. The cost of developing software has gone down a lot = smaller
teams, more technical folks. Recruiters havent realized this. A company like
WhatsApp has ~50 people and was valued at $ 19 billion.

At a personal level, I have been a big company manager with many years
experience managing people. I have been introduced to startup founders. What I
dont like is people (read recruiters) who have never shipped a product
pretending to add value by injecting themselves into the process and decided
who I should talk to.

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jesusmichael
Well you can circumvent the "recruiting" process by getting to know more
founders and putting your hat in the ring.

Yes I agree with you about the cost of building an application, but its always
been cheap form a code generation perspective. The marketing and sales
channels (read viral "whatsapp", which is unique in the world) have changed.
You don't need to have a boat load of sales and support personnel anymore,
because 1, its not expected, and 2, you have the web to deploy and support
your app which is a force multiplier.

I don't think the CTO/VPE is the guy with the most or even the best grasp of
how software should be developed. He should be the guy that most effectively
bridge the communication gap between the engineering dept and the board room.
Focusing the group on the things that will make ownership happy.

In that respect sometimes the CTO is a guy that gives the BOD confidence that
he'll look out for the Boards interest, not the guy who's going to deliver. I
know that may sound counter-intuitive but its true.

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useyourloaf
This seems no different from "regular" recruiters. They: a. cannot evaluate
candidates properly. b. focus only on placing bodies, appropriately or not. c.
use a limited and inaccurate set of criteria to search for a fit (see a.)

The entire recruiting business seems bogus.

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terramars
Have you checked out Hired yet? We're currently searching for a VPE, and some
of our clients have started to use us to look for directors as well (still
much less common than engineers or PM, but may be worth a try). We've had 1
director-level hire this month and several more in the works.
[http://join.hired.com/x/MF3ypl](http://join.hired.com/x/MF3ypl) if you don't
already have an account.

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codetalks
Sounds interesting. I will create an account and add my profile.

Thx

