
Generation X Stymied by Baby Boomers Refusing to Give Up Jobs - ilamont
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-09-15/generation-x-stymied-by-baby-boomers-refusing-to-give-up-jobs.html
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illumin8
It's very easy for those of us in Gen X that do software development to be
smug. After all, I don't know of any 65 year old Java programmers refusing to
retire so that we can get a job.

In other industries where ageism is not so rampant, they might have it tougher
than we do. Industries like healthcare, finance, etc, there are many positions
that they are just not going to give up.

In a way, it makes me very cynical towards the older generation. They had the
world given to them on a platter in the 1950s, 60s, and 70s. Instead they
squandered everything they had. They started "Reaganomics" in the 1980s and
since then median household income has decreased as adjusted for inflation.
They started unnecessary wars, squandered our nations standing in the world,
destroyed the housing market, the stock market, and the global economy. Now,
when they finally retire they are going to dump themselves on us, broke, sick,
and old, and expect us to take care of them with welfare payments, because
they squandered all their money on McMansions and SUVs.

It's hard not to be bitter if you are Gen X and Gen Y. I know we all love our
parents, but our parents generation is pretty fucked up.

~~~
bwanab
There's truth in what you say and boomers in general have to take
responsibility for having close to zero foresight with respect to how they've
squandered their fortunes but let me counter a couple of your points. 1\. The
vast majority of boomers hit the job market between the middle 70's and middle
80's. This was the worst job market between the Great Depression and the Great
Recession. While many things were peachy during boomer's youth, reality bit
pretty hard for a really long stretch of time. 2\. Reagan was largely voted in
by the boomer's parent's generation. 3\. And yes, under a boomer government,
the housing market, stock market, global economy tanked, but I'm hard pressed
to believe that these results didn't hit the boomers as hard or harder than
they have hit the following generations.

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jfruh
Ha ha, those darn baby boomers, refusing to give up their jobs like their
parents did! The fact that their parents' retirement was in defined-benefit
pensions whereas the baby boomers' retirement is in 401ks that dropped hugely
in value just as they were planning to retire has nothing to do with this,
obviously.

~~~
timmaah
_“Don’t be dependent on anything or anyone,” Neu says. “It’s safest to plan as
if the government isn’t going to take care of me, companies aren’t going to
take care of me.”_

Doesn't appear the boomer generation figured this out. As a Gen X, I think and
hope I figured this out early enough.

~~~
jfruh
But 401Ks were sold as "you taking care of yourself" because "you" controlled
your retirement, not some pension fund. What's your alternative for retirement
savings? The mattress?

~~~
onemoreact
Spend less and Save more. If you save ~18-20% starting in your early 20's you
can stop caring what the stock market does. Basically plan for 4.5% ROI and
deal with it. If you happen to be able to retire at 50 great, if not your
still going to be ok. Don't go to an expensive school and get someone else to
pay for grad school. Also don't skip out on insurance because cheap does not
mean good.

PS: An Indian friend of mine saved 20k over a year while making 42k and living
in an expensive area. He had no car, never eatout, and had a lot of roommates,
but he wanted to save up for his sisters dowery. You can still splurge a lot
more than that and still build a nest egg quickly.

~~~
lionhearted
Extremely good comment, just a minor important point here -

> Basically plan for 4.5% ROI

Warren Buffet notes that a nation's ROI overall basically can't exceed its GDP
growth for an extended period of time. So if your country has a 1% to 3%
growth rate and you're investing in an unsophisticated way, then 4.5% might be
optimistic.

(It's still a thoroughly good idea to do the rest of your comment. I'd save
most of my income even if my ROI was -10%, because money is more useful in
large quantities, especially when you break certain thresholds like "can take
2-3 years off work when it's a good time to do so" and "can mix cash and and
labor when joining a company to get a big equity stake" and "can buy tools and
gifts without even looking at the cost if there's a productivity benefit" -
cash is more useful/leverageable in large numbers than small for most middle
class-ish people.)

~~~
rayiner
1-3% is real GDP growth rate, net of inflation. With inflation at 2-3%, then
planning for 4.5% growth, not adjusted for inflation, is not unreasonable.

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yannis
According to my own calculations very few of the baby boomers will retire.
Most of us spent our lives fighting a losing war, the inflation of the
eighties, the rising housing prices. Schooling for the kids from being a very
small amount of a family's life to eating a major portion of one's work
efforts. Personally add one wrong move where I lost all my capital and still
fighting to recover.

Most of us are still supporting our kids as they are the kids of the
recessions or helping them with capital for their start-up and hey we don't
want to rust in the port like an old ship. Many other of us have build
Companies where these X's are currently employed.

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whatusername
What part of rising house prices did Boomers have to fight? Surely that's a
burden you've handballed to X/Y.

// Says a Gen Y from Australia where house prices haven't crashed yet.

~~~
timtadh
Rising (and then dramatically falling) housing prices destroyed the wealth a
large portion of established families. If they bought a house in say 2005,
they lost money and are saddled with a huge mortgage. Even families who own
their own home now have less money as people often viewed their home as a
major investment.

~~~
cube13
Which is entirely their fault. You don't treat basic needs(food, water, roof
over your head) as investments, because no matter what the actual price is of
those, you still need them. Instead, you should buy what's affordable for you,
so even if the price drops, it doesn't matter.

~~~
chollida1
> Which is entirely their fault. You don't treat basic needs(food, water, roof
> over your head) as investments, because no matter what the actual price is
> of those, you still need them. Instead, you should buy what's affordable for
> you, so even if the price drops, it doesn't matter.

This is a little harsh. Many families need to sell due to reasons other than
treating their house as an investment.

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christkv
I don't know the details about the US but for Spain and most European
countries the baby boomers are going to create dysfunctional states as they
will be the majority of voters for the next couple of years and have the
highest benefits accrued in history. Basically gen X/Y will be relegated to
paying their pensions with higher taxes and cuts in benefits as the boomers
protect their benefits.

I think we are looking at a generational war or a complete revamp of the
welfare systems across the entire west.

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littlegiantcap
I hate it when people insinuate that jobs are some sort of magical commodity
that there are only so many of and once they're gone that's it.

~~~
bmm6o
On reflection, there is a difference between the Lump of Labor fallacy and a
particular job opening up. If your only way to advance (say within a company)
is to wait for someone above you to advance/leave/retire, then you personally
will be affected by later retirement ages. It's not always easy to see
alternatives to waiting, and they might come with risks you'd rather not
accept.

~~~
littlegiantcap
In one company for a particular position yes, the article seemed to be
insinuating some sort of general notion that jobs are a finite resource. It
especially comes across because of the finger pointing at an entire
generation.

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duncanj
"Spaulding ... is a typical member of the relatively small group called
Generation X,... born between 1965 and 1978: They’re ambitious, squeezed by
debt and frustrated by people who aren’t retiring on schedule."

We're ambitious? Wait, all of those other articles say we aren't ambitious,
and we like to settle for less. Which is it?

~~~
jfruh
When the media first took note of Gen Xers during the early '90s recession, we
were "lazy." Then during the dot-com boom we were ambitious. Funny how easy it
is for a generation hitting a workforce when there aren't jobs available to
look lazy, or for a generation hitting their late 20s/early 30s during a boom
to look like sharp business types.

~~~
butterfi
The boomers have had their own layers of identity as well. Hippies -> Yuppies
-> ??

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lionhearted
At the end of humanity, when the Sun finally burns out, and Earth drifts into
a slow freeze in the final sunset - mankind will still not have grasped
economics.

~~~
geebee
You got to elaborate on this. I'm going to guess that you're objecting to the
way that the article seems to treat the number of jobs as a zero sum game,
where boomers have to leave to "open up" one of a finite number of jobs for
younger people (or anyone else, for that matter)? This was the first reaction
I had to the article as well.

Thing is, it _is_ actually debatable, or at least more nuanced than this. I
lean toward the belief that relatively free markets and a robust
entrepreneurialism can provide a huge amount of flexibility, to the point
where discussing who "gets" a job may miss the point. Certainly young people
who prefer to create startups are demonstrating that there's no need to try to
climb a ladder, or at least that there are all kinds of options for creating
your own job.

That said, I think there's enough friction and inertia in society and markets
that a younger generation can be meaningfully stymied by an older one hanging
on to the reigns.

Anyway, I'm not sure I've responded to _your_ objection to this article - I'm
really just responding to my own.

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aninteger
If you think GenX has it bad check out Gen Y.

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prestonbriggs
I'm a boomer, have no debt, own my houses, and have a fair amount of cash. But
I have no pension and don't foresee any particular income from my cash while
the Fed holds interest rates at near zero. Hard to imagine retiring now.

And no matter how much money I save, it seems kinda crazy to retire before
being forced to. You might say: "Things look good, time to quit!", but what'll
the world look like in 5 or 10 or 20 or 40 years? I don't know, but a good
income will help carry you through a lot of financial craziness.

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pnathan
It's cool, if I have to, I'll make my own job.

~~~
sp332
Are you going to pay your own wages too?

~~~
learc83
Yes, that's the point.

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Bloodwine
I doubt Gen X is stymied.much. It is the younger generations that are going to
suffer due to fewer employment opportunities.

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alnayyir
Gen X'ers bitching about being employed.

I couldn't write better comedy if I wanted to.

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bitwize
I'm supposedly in that age group, and I don't give a shit when people retire
or don't retire.

I only worry about my mom's retirement because her job sucks.

