

Do you actually like programming?  Or is it just a means to an end for you? - amichail

I find it bizarre that people would find implementation inherently interesting. That would be like finding penmanship or grammar inherently interesting.<p>I predict that in a few decades people will look back in bewilderment at today's computer science with its focus on implementation.<p>And btw, it's also surprising when people are upset that few women major in CS.  The problem is that the field isn't interesting in its current form.  Perhaps one should complain more about men who like the field as is and want to preserve the status quo!
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plinkplonk
"I find it bizarre that people would find implementation inherently
interesting. That would be like finding penmanship or grammar inherently
interesting. "

The analogies are flawed.

"Novel idea" in CS divorced from implementation would be like a non-playing
musician coming up with "cool musical ideas ".

"I have this cool idea for a new musical genre but I am not interested in the
actual playing of music" or "I have this cool idea for a novel but I don't
want to sit down and type it up/ write it down". How much of a musician or
writer would someone making such statements be? "Novelty" has to be made
concrete by playing/writing/programming. It is _in the process_ of
writing/playing/programming that you discover if the "novel" idea makes any
sense at all.

you say "I'm using implementation in a general way to not only include
programming but also clever algorithm design, better software engineering
practices, etc."

Ok if all those are "implementation" what's left? someone coming up with "cool
ideas"?

"as you get older, you will find it easier to come up with novel applications
and harder to come up with quality implementations"

Speak for yourself friend! I for one would be very leery of someone who has
"cool ideas" but can't/won't implement them.

I encounter MBAs with this attitude every day. They all have these killer
ideas they want me to "implement quickly".

~~~
amichail
I do implement some of my ideas, but I don't find the implementation process
particularly rewarding. It is the end result demonstrating my idea that is
rewarding to me.

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Hates_
Plenty of people do find penmanship or grammar interesting! Personally I love
programming. I love being able to solve problems in elegant ways and find
immense satisfaction in refactoring old and smelly code.

 _The problem is really that the field isn't interesting in its current form._
That is just your opinion. Just as I'm sure there are things you find highly
interesting that I wouldn't. There are plenty of blog posts submitted every
day that show a real passion and love for the subject of computer programming.

Computer programming is what drives the world we live in today. How could you
_not_ find that interesting?

~~~
amichail
_Computer programming is what drives the world we live in today. How could you
not find that interesting?_

I find novel applications more interesting than quality implementations.

Also, as you get older, you will find it easier to come up with novel
applications and harder to come up with quality implementations.

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ruddzw
Programming is extremely interesting to me, and a lot of fun to do. In the
same way, grammar is interesting to me as well. What do you think linguists
study?

I think there's a certain kind of mind that would rather figure out how to do
something than come up with that something in the first place. If you're
interested in both, then all the better, but if you're only one, there's
nothing wrong with that.

~~~
alanthonyc
Linguists study the mechanics of creating sounds that we interpret as words,
writing systems that represent language, semantic analyses of languages and
the language acquisition process in humans, among other things that are not
the study of grammar.

However, all of these can be related to to the study and application of
computer sciences.

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cperciva
_I predict that in a few decades people will look back in bewilderment at
today's computer science with its focus on implementation._

Today's Computer Science doesn't have a focus on implementation. Programmers
have a focus on implementation, but computer scientists don't.

~~~
menloparkbum
Considering the number of CS grads I've interviewed who can't seem to program
anything at all, I thought it was very strange that he thought the field had a
focus on implementation.

~~~
amichail
I'm using implementation in a general way to not only include programming but
also clever algorithm design, better software engineering practices, etc.

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jleyank
I used to be quite interested in the bits and bytes of things, but I have to
admit that over the years my interest has shifted to what programming lets me
and others DO rather than the specific process of implementation and
debugging. To use the penmanship example in the OP, I'm less interested in the
pen, ink and paper and more interested in what ends up being written.

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menloparkbum
As the years go on I find programming less interesting. Or maybe it's that I
find other things more interesting.

However the tone of your post seems to imply that programming is the boring
part of computer science. The only interesting stuff happening in computer
science has come out of people actually programming stuff.

~~~
amichail
What do you mean by "interesting stuff"? Are you referring to novel apps or
quality implementation?

Of course a novel app is more interesting if it is implemented. But the point
is that implementation is necessary but not inherently interesting.

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danw
This discussion has cropped up in quite a few places recently. Theres seem to
be two camps and very little cross over in those I speak to: Programmers vs
Scripters.

The Programmers take pride in the craftsmanship of their code and in the
puzzle solving involved. They may do this in dynamic 'scripting' languages but
they skew towards strongly typed languages.

The Scripters see it as a means to an end. They want to build some awesome
stuff and the software is a means to an end. Any language or framework that
makes it quick and straightforward to build with is preferred, preferring
dynamic languages and frameworks with good documentation/examples code.

~~~
amichail
Perhaps the programmers are employees while the scripters are entrepreneurs?

BTW, my favorite language is actually Scala even though I'm more into novel
apps than quality implementation.

~~~
unalone
Who's downvoting you everywhere? Sheesh, you've got some enemies.

Some people like fixing puzzles; other people like making things. They go well
together. My cofounder loves coding things and making them work. I _can_ do
that stuff, but I prefer designing things and making really pretty stuff
rather than working in the background.

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lacker
I find _both_ programming and grammar to be inherently interesting.
Computational linguistics has some fascinating puzzles in it, and it's
exciting to ponder how we might be able to make computers communicate in
natural language.

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triplefox
It's always been a "means to an end" for me, as the real reason for me to
program was always to be able to design video games down to the last detail.
So it was a reluctant process at first, especially when it seemed like the
only options(as a PC user in the early 90s) were between languages like
QBasic(not powerful enough) and those like C(too many implementation details).

But when felt like I hit that goal I didn't stop learning, I actually got more
into it because I wanted to learn ways of getting a better result in less
time, and the obvious answer to that was to keep studying and soaking up
knowledge.

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barrels
More than just solving the problem at hand, there can be an aesthetic appeal
to some solutions. Similar to the way a writer can appreciate a particularly
beautiful phrase, a programmer can enjoy a clever solution to a given problem.
I, and many others, enjoy the art of finding these "beautiful" solutions.

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spaghetti
Yes I love programming. My favorite "projects" are algorithm competitions and
apps for mobile phones. Programming is a beautiful art form... imo doing
enterprise IT work hides most of the artistic side just like high school math
and college calculus hides much of the beauty of pure mathematics.

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mannicken
More, more interesting! It's like running, the more you do it the faster
you're able to run and the more you want to run more often!

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known
Programming is my Passion.

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abl
interesting, no one commented so far about the disproportion of men to women
in the field... I think this should be a separate question in itself.

