
How to become an unpaid technical support worker for Google - robmarkg
http://www.google.com/get/topcontributor/watch/index.html
======
jakobegger
This is what made me ditch Gmail. After using it for several years, I stumbled
across a serious bug that removed all email from my inbox. I tried contacting
support, but there was none; all I got were replies from top contributors
pointing me to other people with the same issue. It becsme clear that there
was no way to escalate the issue or get help from someone who could actually
investigate the bug or help restoring my email. Top contributors are not an
actual replacement for customer support.

I've since switched to a paid email provider.

~~~
Zathman
Google provides paid email (which includes support) under the service of
Google Apps for Work. You can call or email an actual Google tech support
employee 24/7 for core services when you need help (number will be in the
admin panel).

But when you're getting a product for free, especially email (Hotmail/Live
Mail, Yahoo, AOL, Gmail, etc) you really can't expect any provider to provide
comprehensive one-on-one support as it is rather pricey. So you're right to go
to a paid plan somewhere.

~~~
jfoster
I wonder if the outcome would have been much different if the jakobegger did
have Google Apps.

In my experience, a common problem with support is that they lack the
knowledge and capabilities to deal with certain types of support requests. At
some point, some support requests need to be escalated to the product owners
within the organization. Some organizations are simply not prepared for those
types of support requests.

Email does seem like a service that should be recoverable, though. If you
depend on it heavily enough, you should probably:

(a) Own the domain that emails are going to. (so that if Google stumbles, you
can switch providers)

(b) Have full records of all accounts & aliases. (so that you can continue to
receive incoming mail following any switch of providers)

(c) Backup all email regularly. (so that you don't lose all existing mail in
the event of needing to switch providers)

------
gmisra
One of the most beautiful things about the internet is that it enables
platforms for individuals to create value and then receive no share of that
value.

We see much lamenting about lack of innovation in "business plans" around
here, and yet we have an historic opportunity to examine the relationship
between value creation and compensation. Why is the Etsy IPO plan so
exceptional? Why do so menu community members of instagram, reddit, etc end-up
feeling betrayed by the services they helped create?

~~~
bduerst
Or Stackoverflow? They are monetizing free support from thousands of
developers, and it's arguably made the internet a better place.

~~~
ddingus
Yes, it has.

However, it's a bit more subtle than that. Yes, Stackoverflow is making some
money, but everyone who contributes gets a few things out of it too:

1\. They get the use value of the overall result. This is a non-trivial value.
Linux operates under similar dynamics. A lot of "free" code was written, and
it was written to improve on the use value in the body of code they found at
the time.

Anyone finding Stackoverflow sees a lot of use value and they may well see
improving on it in a similar way.

2\. Reputation. I like to think of this as "feed the net and the net feeds
you." Back in the USENET days, I was very highly active on SGI computers.
Sometimes I wondered about the overall value of that. Then I got stuck on some
painful Oracle installation issue. All I had to do was ask, and within an hour
I got a nice script mailed to me along with a thanks for all the filesystem /
disk questions I sorted out for people. (thanks Jerry)

Given the dollars in play at the time, that script was worth a ton!

3\. Network, similar to reputation. My many interactions on the net has often
resulted in knowing people who I could help or get help from or start projects
with.

Clearly, this all must be balanced and weighed by everyone involved. People
who do too much might seem over exploited or suffer opportunity costs of
various kinds. And we all see what is worth what a little differently too.

But, it's not exactly free. There is value exchanged and accumulated. Making
sure that happens is worth something. Maybe it's worth about what
Stackoverflow is taking in.

USENET worked, until it didn't. And when it didn't, it all went down hard.
Huge value lost. Maybe that won't happen this time, and frankly I think that's
worth a profit to somebody because the use value is high enough to be painful
should it go missing.

~~~
jewel
Also it's important to remember that all user content posted on Stackoverflow
is licensed under CC-by-SA, so if Stackoverflow started going south, someone
else can fork the data and continue hosting it.

The data dumps are hosted at the Internet Archive:
[https://archive.org/details/stackexchange](https://archive.org/details/stackexchange)

~~~
ddingus
I didn't realize that. Awesome.

------
msoad
People do anything for points on StackOverflow. It's pretty much the same
thing

~~~
benten10
Exactly. Is it me or has there been a noticeable increase in Google gate-
brigade posting on HN recently? Things like these, very integral part of the
existing internet framework are used for pointless 'big scary Google, Google
is the new Microsoft ' imagery. Anyone with data care to do a sentiment
analysis/ vote-brigading analysis?

~~~
rc4algorithm
In this instance, people are angry about the fact that Google makes a ton of
money from these services but feels no obligation to provide support for them.

More generally, welcome to the new normal. The money-spewing circleparty is
fizzling out, thankfully. People increasingly feel safe and confident in
challenging the morality and societal value of these corporations. Blasé
compliance is no longer expected in tech and many of us (those of us that
upvote these things) are working to keep it that way.

Google is big, scary, and the new Microsoft, whether or not that's fiscally or
professionally convenient for you.

~~~
ddingus
Why would people expect more support without actually paying for it?

Google actually does support the free offerings pretty well. They just don't
do it on a case by case basis. Anybody who wants that has the option to pay
Google to get it.

Otherwise, Google does invest time into making sure it works well for everyone
and isn't just letting it all sit out there slowly breaking...

~~~
rc4algorithm
People pay with their privacy. Google's support is generally considered to be
somewhere between dismal and nonexistent for most of its services. Clearly,
they're making enough money to be doing better.

No one expects intensive 24/7 support for free webmail, but Google's balance
of profit and support is off. Free-tier users aren't cattle, especially not
when you're tracking them.

~~~
ddingus
Anyone who feels that value exchange isn't appropriate has a lot of options.

If you pay Google, their support is much improved.

I don't expect _any_ support for free web mail. And yes, I back mine up, from
time to time, or pay for that support.

You may well value things differently, but that's not necessarily on Google.

~~~
tracker1
How do I keep my @gmail.com address while paying for support? For that matter,
where is the paid supported version of Google Voice / Hangouts?

I switched my texting/gv to hangouts on my phone, now I can't add someone that
texts me to my contact list without trying to call them first. I also can't
seem to SMS someone from hangouts in my contact list on my desktop without
manually typing in their phone number. Pretty big UI/UX oversights (or not).

There's really no way to actually get in touch with appropriate googlers.
There's no real evidence that product owners participate where the people
actually are.

What might be better, would be to approach the StackExchange guys, or even
just riff their interface for a google branded services site, and have actual
google employees participate. I tend to see a lot of the same lacking
regarding general Windows / Microsoft support, but SO/SE fill a lot of the
void... I don't think I've really seen googlers participate. Maybe they should
bring back that 20% time to participate in either these forums on SO, or GH
issues.

~~~
ddingus
Yes: _There 's really no way to actually get in touch with appropriate
googlers. There's no real evidence that product owners participate where the
people actually are._

Does that have to happen?

A googler participated on Quora a while back, and it was related to the
compose window changes. Was an interesting thing. Several of us wrote up the
issues with that change, and the response was "I think Google is getting
pretty close to optimal on this feature" and not much else.

They've got their metrics, and they've set them in various ways, and the
product offerings are there to take or leave. When tons of people take them,
great! When they don't, they do what they think might improve on that, or
remove the product.

I get the feeling Google watches the dialog, and they take input that way, but
they rarely have direct dialogs where they can end up committed in some
fashion.

The more expected model is customer driven, and I agree with you on your
observation. Google isn't necessarily doing it that way, or not directly.

But do they have to?

That's the question. It's also a potential abuse of their position, and I find
it very intriguing to think about.

Mostly, their products add value to my life, and the costs associated with
them do not trump that. So it's good for me, and I don't worry so much about
the little things.

They are little things!

Like the phone UI. Or what they did with Inbox. There are some limitations.
Take it or leave it. You could switch away from hangouts and be just fine,
right?

In the scheme of things, UI issues aren't the same as, it doesn't work, or it
hurt me, type issues.

Gmail always sends it's mail. If it didn't, that would be a major support
issue. Gmail sometimes is borked on the UI, or my browser, or I don't get a
draft saved when I thought I might have one, etc...

(On a phone, I find it difficult to edit a draft without actually going to the
drafts list of messages, for example. The desktop allows it.)

Those things are annoyances, but they always have work arounds and I can get
it done, so I just go and get it done, and if I can get it done, how much
support do I really need?

IMHO, this is close to how Google thinks of things, and they get to do that,
and I get to select them or not.

I've seen companies invest a TON on every little thing, completely customer
driven. I've seen that work out OK, and I've seen it fail too. Failure in the
sense that the product could have been taken somewhere awesome, but for lack
of resources. Maybe it's that "support every little thing" drain that killed
it?

Fair questions, if you ask me.

------
gk1
Reminds me of a SaaS company (I won't name) solved the problem of "too much
support time wasted on non-enterprise clients" by funneling all non-enterprise
support questions to a community forum and encouraging contributors to answer
those questions.

I answered dozens of questions for many days, thinking it will help build
credibility (as suggested by another commenter). Then I realized I'm just
volunteering as level 1 support, and decided it's not worth it.

~~~
jschwartzi
There are semiconductor companies that do this with their software offerings.
Their level 1 support always asks you if you've posted in their community
forum.

------
testingonprod
Wow.....just wow.

The "benefits of becoming a top contributor" video made me want to bash my
head into a wall.

~~~
benten10
My college professor used to (still does I bet) proudly put the stack overflow
25karma point sticker and a letter of thanks from the admins on the door to
his office. And this was a man with tenure etcetera.

~~~
Spivak
It's entirely possible that the support he received from others outweighed the
time he put in supporting others. I know for sure that's the case for me.

~~~
lukaslalinsky
In my experience, SO is only useful for trivial questions, or maybe questions
that ask for a better explanation of some basic concept. If you have a
question you can't find answer for by searching on the internet, it won't be
answered on SO either. I still occasionally help people there, but it was
never a useful resource to me personally.

~~~
TheCoelacanth
SO is most useful for questions that could be answered with a simple google
search if only you knew the right search terms to use. For more complex
questions, it's only occasionally useful.

------
guyzero
Microsoft has had their MVP program for over 20 years!
[https://mvp.microsoft.com/en-us/overview.aspx](https://mvp.microsoft.com/en-
us/overview.aspx)

"Microsoft Most Valuable Professionals, or MVPs are exceptional community
leaders who actively share their high-quality, real-world deep technical
expertise with the community and with Microsoft. They are committed to helping
others get the most out of their experience with Microsoft products and
technologies."

These people are going to exist whether there's a program or not, so why not
create a program to recognize them?

~~~
sergiotapia
Except most MVP share technical programming related articles. Not much
different than sharing knowledge on your blog. At least you get prestige with
Microsoft's program. Seeing Microsoft MVP on a resume is a good boost.

------
gargarplex
It gives lonely people a chance to build professional credibility. Why the
hate? Is it really that different from a software company requiring you to
learn the latest technologies in your free time?

~~~
rc4algorithm
Because they have the money to pay support staff but choose not to.

Your example is irrelevant because that's part of a paid career, not free
labor farmed with manipulative YouTube videos.

------
erikpukinskis
For what it's worth, if you can show you were proving real value and not
primarily getting just entertaintainment/training from Google, you could work
this way for a period and sue Google for back wages. The courts in the
U.S./California generally take minimum wages very seriously and case law has
defined the exceptions quite narrowly. Even non-profits have been successfully
sued for wages for "volunteer" labor.

It's also true basically all unpaid internships are illegal and interns can
easily sue for back wages, FWIW.

------
CurtMonash
It's somewhat ironic to have a thread decrying unpaid community contributions
appear on Hacker News (or any other forum).

~~~
jeo1234
Not really. Hacker News is not a profit center for YC. Last time I checked
Google is running gmail in order to make money (nothing wrong with that). But
if Google is getting paid it seems a little silly for people to give up their
time and skills to Google and getting nothing (useful) in return.

------
mlamat
I wish we would get slavery back. At least they got some food.

~~~
bbcbasic
Yeah it would be awesome, especially if we make the white people slaves, just
to mix it up a bit.

~~~
tracker1
I know this is heading OT, but there have been plenty of white slaves
throughout history, even in the U.S. For that matter, look at how Chinese,
Japanese and Irish immigrants were treated.

I also am not sure that having a class of people in this country that can't
afford to raise a family on a single income while working 40+ hours a week is
so much different than slavery.

In this case, I don't fault google for trying, I just think their approach is
probably wrong, and you really don't see enough googlers (paid employees)
respond to any of the threads you happen across.

------
pm24601
Maybe -- but Google is big and profitable that is asking for free labor.

------
robmarkg
Thank you for the comments everyone. Here is the post I wrote before I posted
this [https://goo.gl/hA6VgA](https://goo.gl/hA6VgA)

------
nailer
This is pretty similar to the Microsoft 'MVP' program. Perhaps people might
start listing their Top Contributor status as a badge of honour online?

~~~
wodenokoto
I thought people already put their SO points on CV's

------
Geojim
How a paid PR worker justifies their job at Google...

