
Ask HN: How are your companies addressing systemic racism? - haleymbryant
I am a black leader at a startup. I sent a memo to our team on Monday to share how I&#x27;m feeling as a black person in light of George Floyd&#x27;s death and the events of the last week. I&#x27;ve heard that many companies have shied away from directly addressing what&#x27;s happening in the world and I know that that&#x27;s due at least in part to lack of representation. Black people represent just 3.3% of senior leadership roles in our country (CNN). We&#x27;re donating to charity and discussing D &amp; I initiatives, but I know there are companies that will shy away from the conversations needed for change to happen.<p>What are your companies doing? Where are they failing? What&#x27;s holding you back from speaking up?
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silvat
How do you even show that systematic racism exists?

-edit to assuage the presumptuous-

Assuming systematic racism does exist in US industry(I'm not from the US or
live there) and a solution is provided to lessen it. At what point can you say
that it no longer exists?

I don't think there will ever come a time where the demographics of Executives
In Industry will match the demographics of a nation. There are a million
different factors at play that have nothing to do with race, I think its not a
very useful measure. But without that, what else can you go by?

~~~
psychometry
Qualitatively: By listening to employees and giving them appropriate channels
to address incidences of bias.

Quantitatively: By looking for bias in employee advancement, hiring, etc.

~~~
LukeBMM
Furthering the quantitative angle a bit, it's easy to overlook the decision-
making power of the positions involved (ie: the number of people of color in
leadership roles, versus in entry level positions).

------
newfeatureok
Unless a company is willing to do completely blind hiring and eventually
promotions/raises anything they do internally to "address systemic racism" is
merely posturing.

To illustrate this point, suppose there's Big Corp A - a company that's
extremely racist. However they say they're not racist. To prove this they do
everything you could imagine for their employees, seminars, diversity
training, etc. All of the employees who work there conclude Big Corp A is not
racist. However, suppose they actually are racist and simply do not hire
anyone who is not of their preferred race. This would mean it's possible for
the employees to feel that they're not racist, but also that they have racist
policies.

Racism is something that can be viewed empirically. Without transparency, any
company claiming to not be racist is lying. Blind hiring, transparency in
wages, etc. are all things that a company would do to address systemic racism.

In any case, a company could make a large donation to many organizations
trying to solve these problems I suppose. One would have to measure that
impact vs. the impact they have that furthers the divide (e.g. a company whose
existence might hurt individuals of certain races disproportionally).

~~~
eeZah7Ux
Is there a word to describe a behavior e.g. doing just enough to _look like_
you are actively trying to solve a problem?

It probably goes together with greenwashing and astroturfing.

------
seesawtron
No racism at our company. Neverthless we have well-structured independent
channels to addresss systematic issues and biases when they emerge which
fortunately do not require protesting. The personnel holding the position of
these channels rotate after a fixed time so that they do not become
authoritative or fascist.

~~~
haleymbryant
It's great to hear that there are structured channels for communication about
racism and bias.

Your message is in conflict with itself though; you're saying there is no
racism but that it is consistently addressed internally - racism and more
broadly unconscious bias is everywhere. One of the things this time is
reminding me of is that fixing this problem is not some one else's job, it's
all of our jobs. Believing racism doesn't exist in our own networks/companies
keeps us silent about the problem and slows the honesty and understanding
required to make change happen.

~~~
seesawtron
Some people just want to make change happen in fields where there is no
existing problem. Of course we face other issues that require change all the
time but racism is not one of them in our company.

~~~
psychometry
That racism somehow doesn't exist in your company is both unlikely and
impossible to prove. It's almost certain that the situation is worse that you
believe.

------
inclusivefuture
Our CEO and ELT have taken a clear stance against racism. They've expressed
sadness and anger at events that have unfairly targeted African Americans and
other people of color and made it clear such injustices are not to be
tolerated. Since May 27 we've had weekly company-wide sessions to discuss
this. In our weekly team meetings and in smaller chat sessions we've shared
thoughts, personal experiences and ideas on what we should do. On June 1 our
CEO announced Cisco's purpose is _to power an inclusive future for all_.
Public versions of our internal messaging are available yet but some is
touched on in
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcIUDwpI66Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcIUDwpI66Q)

------
tjansen
I would view racism as a marketing problem. Some (most? all?) people associate
certain races with bad traits. That's the underlying issue, and to a certain
degree it is also a subconscious thing that people can't easily change, even
if they want to. Protests won't make any difference, nor will public
statements. Riots only make things worse. The best, and maybe only thing you
can do is to show black people in a more positive light. You need marketing.
It may sound stupid, but promote that you are a black leader at a startup and
do valuable work for society.

~~~
testbot123
Minorities are not responsible for the racism perpetuated against them. It's
not a "marketing problem" that minorities need to solve, it's a racism problem
that the perpetrators need to solve.

~~~
tjansen
Don't disagree, but the poster asked what he/she could do. Also, it won't work
without the help from minorities.

~~~
testbot123
Minorities have been trying to prove their worth to the US since the inception
of the country (which was built on their backs). It hasn't changed anything.

And why isn't it that the non-minorities shouldn't be the ones who are
groveling and seeking to be model citizens? Remember that if a white police
officer hadn't killed a black man in the street, we wouldn't be having this
conversation right now. By your logic, shouldn't all white people now be
tainted by his actions and forced to acquiesce to cultural standards set by
non-whites?

If I disparaged your race, would you say the onus is on you to prove me wrong?

~~~
tjansen
Perception is mostly shaped by frequency. It doesn't matter that much what
most people of the minority do. It matters what the others see.

To give you an example: if you have little personal contact to a specific
minority, and over 50% of the people of that minority you see on TV are either
criminals on local news, or musicians and actors playing gangsters, everyone
who doesn't have a lot of contact with them in real life is getting scared
every time they see someone who fits the profile.

It's up to the majority to give the minorities opportunities to present
themselves in the best light, but you can't force someone to be not racist.
Even those who don't want to be have an unconscious bias. You need frequent
positive impressions of that minority to get a good overall impression and
avoid that bias.

By the way, this is not limited to race, but also for example applies to
people with tattoos. If all tattooed people you see are criminals, you are
scared by tattooed people as well. It works with every property of people
that's easily visible.

~~~
testbot123
> To give you an example: if you have little personal contact to a specific
> minority, and over 50% of the people of that minority you see on TV are
> either criminals on local news, or musicians and actors playing gangsters,
> everyone who doesn't have a lot of contact with them in real life is getting
> scared every time they see someone who fits the profile.

Yes, I agree that the portrayal of minorities in the mass media in the Western
world is incredibly racist. Part of the reason for this is the racism inherent
in the US justice system -- you're currently witnessing worldwide protests
over it.

However, I also see many representations of non-minorities portrayed in
negative light -- why is it that only minorities are forced to atone for
fictionalized representations of themselves and are not regarded as
individuals with their own agency, lives, dreams, hopes, pains, and instead
must be lumped into the same group and called to account for the actions of
someone that happens to have the same skin color?

> By the way, this is not limited to race, but also for example applies to
> people with tattoos. If all tattooed people you see are criminals, you are
> scared by tattooed people as well. It works with every property of people
> that's easily visible.

People choose to be tattooed.

"Be more visibly obedient to the cultural norms of racists" is not a valid
suggestion for addressing systemic racism.

~~~
tjansen
> Part of the reason for this is the racism inherent in the US justice system

What's the root cause of that? A long time ago it was an economic incentive,
but that incentive doesn't exist anymore. Today, I think, it's bias.

> instead must be lumped into the same group and called to account for the
> actions of someone that happens to have the same skin color

Because that's how the human brain works. It classifies things based on
previous experiences. It is biased by design. You need to change the input to
change the outcome.

Luckily, today, media is a huge part of the input and thus it is relatively
easy to change.

> People choose to be tattooed.

Yes. But you are arguing on a different level. You are arguing in terms of
fairness and guilt. I would agree with you on that level if that would be all
there is to it. If there was a way that the majority could overcome racism by
just wanting it enough, I would also agree with you. But in the real world you
can not change the perception of other people without at least some
cooperation to create an impression that creates a positive experience.

Some people chose to be part of a visually distinctive group. Others are just
born into it. But independent of how you got into the group, the consequences
are the same. Not because it is fair (it isn't), but just because that's the
way humans work.

> "Be more visibly obedient to the cultural norms of racists"

You can change the cultural norms to avoid elements of racism, and you can
change the norms to find a middle ground, but I don't think you can live in a
world without bias without also having common cultural norms. People are
always biased against those who live outside their cultural norms.

------
tjalfi
My employer instituted a form of the Rooney Rule[0] several years ago.

Our compliance with this rule is audited biannually by a third-party and
diversity is important to our clients.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooney_Rule](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooney_Rule)

------
JaakkoP
We are trying an approach where for every new hire we must get a diverse set
of qualified candidates for the last round of interviews.

The idea is that we don't want our employees to feel they were hired because
of their looks, but because they were the best candidate for the job. At the
same time, we hope that as a company, this will make us work harder to ensure
equal opportunity for underrepresented groups.

What's been challenging is to figure out how should we set the bar to measure
our performance on this. Ultimately, it comes down to the representation among
our employees, but I believe that setting specific goals earlier in the hiring
process would help us get there.

~~~
haleymbryant
Love this approach and the thoughts on goal setting to measure success.

------
austincheney
I work for a ginormous monster huge bank. Diversity and inclusion are
incredibly important values at all levels. It’s not just lip service as the
leadership goes well out of their way to impose these values.

> What are your companies doing?

I have been away on military assignment since the chaos caught fire, but
before that the company strongly encouraged people to socialize outside their
comfort groups and treat people as family (the kind you like). The company
didn’t especially focus on race as this is factored into diversity.

~~~
haleymbryant
Thanks for sharing and for your service. Love this. Does the company have any
structure to help facilitate people socializing outside their comfort zone?

~~~
austincheney
The two most common things that come to mind are social events and
extracurricular work meetings associated with awareness of other areas of
business. It’s such a big company that employees really are encouraged to take
time away from their scheduled responsibilities to learn about what other
people are doing.

The social events are sponsored by leadership which sometimes provides funding
but team members are encouraged to be the driving force as a leadership
building opportunity. Usually these are just things like potlucks or games at
the office which require almost no spending or travel but there are also
recreation days to entertainment locations outside the office.

Some of the events require a bit more effort for me to participate because I
commute 45 miles to work one way where most people live close to the office.

The company is so big and diverse that I honestly don’t even notice race
there. The thing that sticks out most for me are accents of employees where
English is not their birth language, which requires more effort to parse
during long phone meetings.

What I have noticed about this company is don’t be shy about meeting people.
People are always nice and eager to meet. For some reason I am really shy in
the corporate world and this is really hard for me. I find that I don’t want
to be seen as pushy, superior, or impatient. I find that quite humility I
learned from the military dominates all my social engagements around new
people in the office to my limitation. I find that so strange because in the
military I have been a platoon sergeant and managed large numbers of people in
a high confrontation environment.

------
uberman
I see "isms" and "phobias" as regrettably rampant in America. Perhaps more now
that at any other time in my life. This is a huge community problem.

That said, I feel these are not discussions that belong in the workplace
particularly as you are a workplace leader, I personally think that sending a
memo to your team to talk about your feelings was inappropriate.

