
Why Palladium Is Suddenly a More Precious Metal - hhs
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-28/why-palladium-is-suddenly-a-more-precious-metal-quicktake-k2ap4ryc
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tonixie
I consulted for an automobile manufacturer that was looking to acquire a new
catalytic converter start-up.

One of the main reasons for their interest was the fact that this new
catalytic converter used 30% less palladium than the next leading product.

The other was because of the looming fleet fuel efficiency requirements. If
the total fleet fuel efficiency was below the target, the companies would get
fined for emissions on a mpg basis. You could also earn additional revenue if
your cars had better mileage than were necessary since credits were tradeable.

Other things that were considered included mileage improvements/savings that
could potentially be used to differentiate between competitors since catalytic
converts could also improve fuel efficiency.

~~~
phkahler
>> since catalytic converts could also improve fuel efficiency.

For curious, I think this is because fuel economy and complete/proper
combustion are directly at odds with each other. Better MPG means nastier
exhaust, so a better catalytic converter will help clean that up. OP?

~~~
Cogito
Sorry, why do you think that?

More complete combustion would result in more CO2, H2O, and energy. The by
products from incomplete combustion are the ones we want to limit - CO, C,
various N and S compounds etc.

~~~
refurb
Not always. Nitrogen oxides are due to higher temps which is more efficient.
In order to meet emissions standards, you often take a hit in efficiency (or
at least drive-ability).

~~~
Cogito
Makes a lot of sense, thanks.

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frostburg
This impacts me in a somewhat strange way: usually palladium is cheaper than
platinum, so when making platinum/palladium prints you can use more palladium
both for controlling tone and to spend less on chemicals.

~~~
mikorym
What kind of prints are those?

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frostburg
It's a kind of siderotype, a iron-based (even if in this case the end result
doesn't actually involve iron in the paper) photographic printing process.

All the detail you might ever need from the excellent work of Mike Ware:
[https://www.mikeware.co.uk/downloads/Platinomicon.pdf](https://www.mikeware.co.uk/downloads/Platinomicon.pdf)

~~~
mikorym
That's interesting; is the use case professional photographers selling high
quality prints?

~~~
frostburg
I think that in practice it's more a technique practiced by somewhat
technically-obsessive advanced amateurs, but it's a valued process for high-
end commercial prints, too.

The process has beautiful gradation and extreme archivial resistance with
correct paper choice (but despite what you might read about it it's not the
absolute best at that, because platinum is a catalyst for reactions that you
don't really want to happen in your print over long timespans - the best would
be the even more niche chrysotype process).

Personally I'm dialing in my approach to eventually make combination platinum
/ cyanotype prints (I use digital negatives, one of the issues with these
alternative processes is that you can't enlarge, so they need either large
format film or a digital intermediate).

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ortusdux
This would explain the recent increase in catalytic converter thefts

[https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49767195](https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49767195)

~~~
w0mbat
In Oakland, where I live, thieves have been targeting old generation 2 Priuses
most often. I finally got my 2005 updated for the modern world with a CarPlay
stereo and backup camera, and now I have to worry about it getting hacked
apart by one of these scumbags in the middle of the night, as happened to my
neighbor. They just saw the cat off with a sawzall. The cost of fixing the car
afterwards is maybe 10 times the amount of cash the thieves get for the metal,
and often more than the car is worth. It’s killing safe low pollution cars
that still have years of life in them. Before this all we had to worry about
was the hybrid battery failing every 100,000 miles or so.

~~~
megablast
> The cost of fixing the car afterwards is maybe 10 times the amount of cash
> the thieves get for the metal, and often more than the car is worth.

Why should the thieves care about that?

> It’s killing safe low pollution cars

They are not much better than any other cars. All cars are polluters and
killers.

~~~
cmendel
It's pretty disingenuous to talk about prius as if they are equally bad to all
other vehicles.

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alexghr
off topic, but gosh, Bloomberg you have the worst charts I have ever seen on
the web!

The first chart in the article is particularly bad: there are no labels! It
maps two data sources (unlabelled other than one being red and the other
blue!). The axis are.. unlabelled. I can infer that the horizontal axis is
time (from the dates underneath), but the vertical axis is just some
monotonically increasing number (I assume it's "price", but just from context
offered by the article, I don't know if it's in dollars or cents or euros)

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xiphias2
As palladium has a stock to flow ratio of about 1 year, its price is too
volatile compared to gold/silver to be a useful long term store of value.

[https://medium.com/@100trillionUSD/modeling-bitcoins-
value-w...](https://medium.com/@100trillionUSD/modeling-bitcoins-value-with-
scarcity-91fa0fc03e25)

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woranl
Automobile’s catalytic converter is not the only use case. Palladium is also
used in the many chemical processing applications (as catalyst). Imagine those
big reactors filled with this precious metal and you’ll appreciate how
expensive it can get.

~~~
Lendal
My wedding ring is made of palladium. It's about 10 years old. I don't know if
they're still making jewelry out of it today.

~~~
philips
Same here and it seems the raw material has lost value in 10 years.

[https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=XPD&view=10Y](https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=XPD&view=10Y)

~~~
Scoundreller
You’ve got the 2 backwards.

You get about a quarter as much palladium as you did per dollar than you did
10 years ago.

~~~
lonelappde
Yes here is the correct chart:
[https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=XPD&to=USD&view=1Y](https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=XPD&to=USD&view=1Y)

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sabujp
thanks hn, I know what ETF I'm buying some of tomorrow

~~~
comicjk
The price has been rising steadily since August. I think by the time you read
about it on Hacker News, the smart money has bought already, and the price of
the ETF is as likely to go down as up from here.

~~~
sabujp
i knew this comment would be made, we'll see what happens in a few months :)
(Note: I haven't bought pall yet, it seems very volatile, if anyone is
thinking about it, set your stop loss at minimum 5%)

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monkin
...because of Arc Reactor and Tony Stark? :)

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adolph
At this point, does anyone trust Bloomberg for any information?

~~~
sabujp
you don't have to, just look at the chart on $PALL ETF

