
How TikTok censors videos that do not please Beijing - avocado4
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/sep/25/revealed-how-tiktok-censors-videos-that-do-not-please-beijing
======
avocado4
Also if you check the AndroidManifest.xml of TikTok app you'll see they are
tracking persistent device identifiers coupled with phone #. Then if you
uninstall TikTok you'll still have a bunch of their files in shared space that
other Chinese apps can pick up were you to install them, presumably so they
can track you even if you uninstall the app.

~~~
vymague
Is this something we can report? Or is it allowed in Android?

~~~
chii
Is there a way to prevent an app from leaking data put like this, e.g, some
kind of sandbox disk where files written with one app cannot be accessed by
another app (until the user allows it - like photo sharing etc)?

~~~
htfy96
This would be enforced in the next version of Android IIRC. If you happen to
have a rooted device and trust closed-source app you can also try Storage
Redirect (
[https://rikka.app/storage_redirect/](https://rikka.app/storage_redirect/) )

~~~
manderley
Can't you simply deny TikTok access to shared storage? This permission has
been part of Android for a few years now.

------
gtirloni
_Beijing ByteDance Technology Co Ltd. is a Chinese Internet technology company
operating several machine learning-enabled content platforms, headquartered in
Beijing. It was founded by Zhang Yiming in 2012._

What's to be surprised about exactly? This sort of thing is the norm.

~~~
philipov
It's not about surprise, it's about spreading awareness, and not allowing this
kind of behavior to be normalized. If you think news is only worth spreading
if it's a surprise, then you've been totally taken in by the shock-mongerers
and by those who want this kind of behavior to be ignored, allowed, and
encouraged.

~~~
gtirloni
I think the HN crowd is well aware.

~~~
big_chungus
The linked publication is The Guardian, which has much wider readership than
HN.

------
United857
The article doesn't mention a key point: The TikTok that's available
internationally is a completely separate service instance than Douyin (the
Chinese version). Content/users from one aren't accessible on the other.

~~~
takumo
It doesn't mention it because it isn't really relevant. The international app
is still being censored according to the same rules as the app in China.

It still prohibits users from discussing topics the CCP doesn't want brought
up. (e.g. Tiananman Square, Falun Gong, organ harvesting, and Xinjiang)

The main differences are that outside of China you're not bound by their laws
requiring users to sign up using their legal name and provide identification
to prove as such. In addition to which people aren't being disappeared or
arrested for their posts.

~~~
aaron_m04
> The main differences are [...] In addition to which people aren't being
> disappeared or arrested for their posts.

I would not recommend talking about these subjects with the international app
outside China and then going to China.

------
chvid
Or maybe TikTok just want their platform to be filled with cheerful silly
jokes and 10 second dance moves? And not politics, religious stuff or anti
this and that ...

Maybe it is even a businesss strategy and not something the CCP actually has
forced upon them.

~~~
Craighead
or maybe posting simple things like any reference to a certain quadrilateral
in online games like league of legends is enough for any Chinese player to be
removed from the game

games are fun and completive things arent they? there shouldn't be any
politics around them, yet, China decides to censor references to a certain
quadrilateral by removing players from a game

------
EastSmith
Algorithmic sorting / curated content has no place in services like TikTok,
Twitter, Facebook. If I subscribe to someone I want to see all the content.
I've been fighting with twitter switching to curated content for some time
now, and finally recently Twitter stopped switching me back to curated
ordering.

~~~
aembleton
But in what order? If it is just by time stamp that will give you a lot of
noise to wade through.

Use an app like talon if you want twitter ordered by time.

------
Leary
How is this implemented technically? Does TikTok know what every video is
saying through speech recognition?

What if I unfurl a Free Tibet flag in my video (visual only)

~~~
tpmx
"... instructs its moderators to censor videos that mention ..."

------
potatofarmer45
The issue here is the spread of Chinese Censorship beyond China. With WeChat,
so far, users outside of China are not subjected to the same level of
censorship when communicating with other non-Chinese users.

This is different because it subjects all users to a Chinese "standard" which
basically means any conspiracy crap about how evil America is and typical
whataboutism videos can be prioritized via "algorithms" while a whole range of
"sensitive" issues can be blocked. It gives the Chinese government tools that
slowly enable it to "guide" discussions online. What is interesting about
TikTok is that unlike WeChat, it seems to have users beyond the Chinese
diaspora which gives Beijing far more "soft power" influence to craft a
"positive image of China"

~~~
Fjolsvith
Same could be said for other venues of online expression, including the
current one.

------
xvector
TikTok's developers should be ashamed of themselves.

I have nothing but derision for employees who take part in implementing
something so obviously horrible but do not make an attempt to move out of
their job or even acknowledge what they are doing wrong.

~~~
baby
In China you either comply and have a chance to build a company or have a job
somewhere, or you don’t and... you don’t have a career.

~~~
vymague
It seems they are just motivating the smart people to leave the country.

~~~
bubblesorting
Punch `China exit ban` into your favorite search engine.

~~~
taneq
From a quick web search, these seem to be more about foreign nationals being
detained in China for political reasons or to compel compliance. Not great,
but also not really relevant to what I thought we were talking about (ie.
Chinese businesses having to make concessions to the government in order to
operate).

------
dang
Url changed from
[https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-49826155](https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-49826155),
which points to this.

------
dirtyid
Another incredibly vague investigation. Description of leaked guideline
basically amounts to no divisive politics. Guardian yellow peril narrative:
"TikTok, is advancing Chinese foreign policy aims abroad through the app".
What I see from the guidelines: TikTok is an app designed for kids and No
Politics policies make the app friendly for kids, which is preferable to the
Youtube radicalization treadmill model. IMO, the internet needs a different
standards for children. Sometimes I think 90% of fights online are some
variation of anonymous kids screaming at kids, adults screaming adults but is
actually a kid with dumb naive hot takes. This is the right policy of kid
oriented apps like TikTok and Youtube kids IMO. Not broader social media like
twitter, facebook or weibo.

Original allegations by Guardian [1].

>In every case, they are placed in a context designed to make the rules seem
general purpose, rather than specific exceptions. A ban on criticism of
China’s socialist system, for instance, comes under a general ban of
“criticism/attack towards policies, social rules of any country, such as
constitutional monarchy, monarchy, parliamentary system, separation of powers,
socialism system, etc”.

>Another ban covers “demonisation or distortion of local or other countries’
history such as May 1998 riots of Indonesia, Cambodian genocide, Tiananmen
Square incidents”.

>A more general purpose rule bans “highly controversial topics, such as
separatism, religion sects conflicts, conflicts between ethnic groups, for
instance exaggerating the Islamic sects conflicts, inciting the independence
of Northern Ireland, Republic of Chechnya, Tibet and Taiwan and exaggerating
the ethnic conflict between black and white”.

TikTok claims these are deprecated guidelines:

>The old guidelines in question are outdated and no longer in use. Today we
take localised approaches, including local moderators, local content and
moderation policies, local refinement of global policies, and more. We also
consult with a number of independent local committees and are working to scale
this at a global level, including forming an independent committee of leading
industry organisations and experts to continually assess these policies.

[1]
[https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/sep/25/revealed-...](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/sep/25/revealed-
how-tiktok-censors-videos-that-do-not-please-beijing)

~~~
xvector
> TikTok is an app designed for kids and No Politics policies make the app
> friendly for kids, which is preferable to the Youtube radicalization
> treadmill model.

I think this is a false dichotomy. You are mentioning two companies that play
this game in bad faith. There is a middle-ground.

~~~
dirtyid
What is the middle-ground? The end goal is behaviour modelling of some kind
that requires selective information or censorship. I'm partial to unrestricted
free speech 8chan / edge-lord internet openness, but western society broadly
is drifting towards censoring extremely divisive content, aka the China model.
The question is where do you draw the line? DOTA conduct points that banning
the most toxic players (kids) that seems to be well received? Oh no that's
social credit. I predict that western and eastern social media will converge
on the same censorship solutions, maybe even overlap.

~~~
linkregister
You may not be American. American HN folks tend to take it for granted that
their beliefs are universal.

The controversy isn't as much that TikTok bans political speech or divisive
content, it's that TikTok selectively enforces it based on whether or not it
is in one particular country's self-interest.

------
nyolfen
as we all know, it's a private platform and they have no obligation to host
speech that violates their guidelines. nothing to see here.

~~~
xvector
Being a private platform does not absolve you of social responsibility. When
you take on the role of a public forum or place of communication, you also
take on some social responsibility, whether you like it or not.

Whether you choose to ignore it with carefully crafted "Community
Guidelines"-based legalese or you choose to respect and acknowledge it, it
doesn't change the fact that the responsibility exists.

~~~
zamadatix
The problem with this kind of statement is "social responsibility" isn't one
thing. To their social group this is what being socially responsible is. To
your/my social group it isn't.

Saying "you have a social responsibility to not do that" is only one step
better than arguing "I don't think you should do that" as a reason someone
shouldn't do something.

~~~
kps
More generally: being a private entity does not exempt you from criticism.

------
pmarreck
Incentivizing free speech in a clever way!

------
sunkenvicar
Thanks for this. App deleted because China is not a reliable place to do
business.

~~~
dang
Please keep nationalistic flamebait off HN.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

~~~
sunkenvicar
You are hallucinating nationalism where there is none.

China is untrustworthy because they routinely break business deals.

They violate trade agreements:
[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fCAut_Gr-3E](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fCAut_Gr-3E)

They steal our IP: [https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-china-systematically-
pries-...](https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-china-systematically-pries-
technology-from-u-s-companies-1537972066)

They are waging war against us with Fentanyl:
[https://www.wsj.com/articles/despite-new-safeguards-
fentanyl...](https://www.wsj.com/articles/despite-new-safeguards-fentanyl-
trafficking-is-still-a-problem-11566597494)

Chinese Fentanyl has killed hundreds of thousands of North Americans in the
Third Opium War. It’s a no-brainer to pivot away from China.

------
Leary
I hate companies that abide by the ideological positions of the country
they're from. Hopefully the US can pass a law that bans the use of any social
media app that harms Freedom of Speech through the insidious use of "Community
Guidelines"

~~~
maest
Honest question, is this supposed to be written tongue in cheek? I can't
convince myself whether it is or it isn't.

~~~
mc32
I think they’re serious but obviously poking fun at the incongruence where we
castigate Chinese apps but are fine having domestic companies engage in
similar behavior except it's not at the behest of the gov.

~~~
Leary
I personally think all speech should be free except those that advocate
violence or break the law.

~~~
meddlepal
> advocate violence or break the law

Well I guess so much for the French or American Revolutions.

