
The sniff test of self-recognition confirmed: Dogs have self-awareness (2017) - curtis
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/09/170905111355.htm
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jeffhiggins
Interesting idea, that the mirror test for dogs is unfair because their vision
sucks compared to their nose, but this reasoning seems to take quite a leap.
From the article:

“This study confirmed the previous evidence proposed with the STSR by Dr.
Cazzolla Gatti showing that "dogs distinguish between the olfactory 'image' of
themselves when modified: investigating their own odour for longer when it had
an additional odour accompanying it than when it did not. Such behaviour
implies a recognition of the odour as being of or from 'themselves'."”

Maybe the dogs just recognize their own modified scent as very familliar? Not
as a representation of themseles, but just a smelll they smell often. I love
dogs, and don’t doubt for a moment they have some level of self-awareness
similar to our own, but to me, this test stinks.

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_nalply
The mirror test works like this: you stealthily put a mark on the face or head
of the being and then present the mirror. If the being then tries to reach the
mark it is a strong clue of self-recognition.

In the excerpt the exact way of the sniff test is not described. I didn't read
the paper, hoping for a summary here on HN. I thought maybey they controlled
for confounding effects, for example by presenting other familiar smells,
including the smell of self. The modified smell showing a higher level of
interest compared to other smells would be a clue of self-recognition.

Anyway the approach shows clearly a bias of the mirror test. You could say the
mirror test was discriminating the dogs.

This might be a leap, but I felt reminded of the hearing bias Deaf people
experience every day. The majority of people assume that hearing and
communicating via the audio channel is the way to go, and so I experience
hurdles like needing to phone for identification for services.

I sympathise with the dogs.

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theshadowknows
Is this like the experiment where they put a dot on a bird and then showed the
bird itself in a mirror, and then the bird tried to clean the dot off itself?

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jdavis703
I'm not sure this is just a problem with dog's poor visual processing. Sample
size N=1 and what not, but I had a dog that would see it's reflection in the
mirror, and start growling, hackles would start raising, and as the reflected
"dog" started doing the same thing would start a loop that further enraged my
dog. Shouldn't a dog be able to also recognize their own sound and emotions?

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fingerlocks
Counter-anecdote. My dog finds his reflection curious for a minute or so until
he sniffs at it. Without any scent, he loses interest in the reflection,
appearing to shrug it off as make-believe like the dogs he sees on television.
Seems kind of self-aware-ish to me, in only that he can distinguish between
sight and scent of himself.

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fixermark
This is kind of fascinating. My first impression was I'm not sure this works
as a substitute for the mirror test because I don't know how you distinguish a
dog recognizing a smell as self from a dog recognizing an unfamiliar smell
jumbled with a familiar smell (without associating the self-smell with actual
self, just with "I smell this all the time").

But that got me thinking about the mirror test itself. If it were somehow
possible to---in such a way that the person was unaware of the change---wire
someone up to co-opt their vision to remote cameras, then give them control of
a robot body that looked like them and mimicked their movements faithfully,
then numbed their sense of touch... Could you fool a person into "failing" the
mirror test by identifying the robot as themself when it is not actually their
own body?

Too far down this road, of course, you run into some weird philosophy
questions on "what is 'my body' anyway?" But I don't know of an experiment of
this style that's been tried on people. Could be interesting.

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Scipio_Afri
I always thought my border collie sometimes seemed stressed and panted after
she investigated the clumps of hair that would sometimes fall out when being
pet or groomed. I remember it happening after saying to her "it's you!" Haha
:-(. Poor dog thought she was falling apart. I remember telling her "it's
okay" and she licked the air in my direction. Some part of me thought I was
nuts for thinking she understood or anthropomorphizing her. But as the years
went on we realized she knew what was up more often than we could imagine, so
many instances of her reacting to spoken words or the world in ways we never
thought her capable of.

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aussieguy1234
Lets apply this to cattle

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fb03
Don't forget pigs as well.

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JosephRedfern
AFIAK, Pigs already "pass" the mirror test -- but yes, the "sniff" test would
be interesting too.

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pvaldes
Except when they chase its own tail running in circles around a tree trunk.

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ytwySXpMbS
That's not because they don't know it's their tail, it's because they're
incredibly bored. Dogs only do that if you don't take them for enough walks

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bdfsvbyudflsvg
Wow! Kind of re-adjusts the weight thrown behind the mirror test. [0]

Recognizing self-recognition and sentience is truly a quagmire of problems,
but I suppose it makes sense that it becomes tied to the most salient sensory
input for the entity.

This concept will deeply complicate the uncanny valley of machine sentience,
and the boundary between live organic life, and contrived artifacts that
simulate comparable systems.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_test](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_test)

