
Keyboard Layout Analyser - which layout is best for you? - zmmz
http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/
======
barrkel
There's more to "best layout" than finger travel distance. Capewell's website
suggests some of them:

[http://www.michaelcapewell.com/projects/keyboard/index.htm#T...](http://www.michaelcapewell.com/projects/keyboard/index.htm#The_Coming_Capewell_Layout_)

Roughly quoted:

* Minimize finger movements.

* Maximize the use of 'combos,' i.e., multiple keys hit on the same hand with one comfortable movement

* Minimize the use of uncomfortable combos

* If a key in one of the centre columns is used, have the keys typed before and after the key be typed by the other hand

* Minimize use of awkward positions on the keyboard

I'd also add cadence: it's important to have a nice rhythm when typing
normally. This plays into the combos and lack of awkward keys. I suspect that
in some ways, it's better to sacrifice a little average speed so long as
variance is not very large.

~~~
zokier
I think minimizing uncomfortable combos is especially important if you happen
to use lot of punctuation/symbols etc, eg writing c/c++ code or tinkering
around in shell. My local keyboard layout (fi/sv) is absolutely horrible in
that respect (see
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Keyboard_Layout_Swedish.pn...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Keyboard_Layout_Swedish.png)).
But we also happen to have two extra letters in our alphabet, so using us-intl
is not an option. It would be quite good otherwise, as it just happens that
most computer systems seem to be designed to be used with us-intl.

The best solution I have come this far is creating my own custom layout, based
on us-intl, but squeezing in those two extra letters. But this approach has
one large problem: using any other computer than my home desktop becomes a lot
harder. And as I happen to use a lot of other computers, it also hinders me
from learning and using my own layout properly.

Also, I have not yet found a reasonable solution to create my own keyboard
layouts in Linux, so that it would reliably work all around the system. So my
custom layout experimenting has so far been limited to windows only, which is
kinda sad.

An image of my layout is available at
<http://zokier.net/stuff/nappaimisto.png> If someone is interested, I could
upload the keyboard files as well.

------
gommm
Great, my current keyboard layout (colemak) comes out on with most of the text
sample I've tested.

For those hesitating about using a different keyboard layout, do it! your
wrist will thank you for it... I used to have a lot of wrist problems and most
have gone away since I've switched to Colemak

~~~
jerf
I pasted in a Perl module and my Dvorak actually managed to narrowly edge out
Colemak in most ways. But I would consider that a fluke.

The heatmap of the buttons was particularly impressive. It's great to see what
I already felt.

Oh, and ignore the personalized layout, though props to the site for saying
what things they did not consider when making the layout. But those things
they ignore matter a lot.

~~~
Xurinos
I had the same results for perl as well as for CL. It surprised me, given that
Colemak is promoted as the programmer's weapon of choice.

------
SkyMarshal
If anyone wants to learn a new layout, and you're on Linux, I highly recommend
KTouch (works fine on Gnome too).

I learned Colemak with it in about two weeks, it's perfect. Still using Qwerty
till I master vim, though. I found the latter is more of a productivity
enhancer than the former, and it's difficult to do both simultaneously.

~~~
aberkowitz
What does Colemak help you do faster than Qwerty or Dvorak?

~~~
SkyMarshal
It's supposed to be a better Dvorak. The keys are less of a departure from
Qwerty than Dvorak's are so it's easier to learn, and it makes a few
improvements over Dvorak. More on their website:

<http://colemak.com/>

From the site:

> _Ergonomic and comfortable – Your fingers on QWERTY move 2.2x more than on
> Colemak. QWERTY has 16x more same hand row jumping than Colemak. There are
> 35x more words you can type using only the home row on Colemak._

> _Easy to learn – Allows easy transition from QWERTY. Only 2 keys move
> between hands. Many common shortcuts (including Ctrl+Z/X/C/V) remain the
> same. Typing lessons available._

> _Fast – Most of the typing is done on the strongest and fastest fingers. Low
> same-finger ratio._

> _Multilingual – Allows to type in over 40 languages and to type various
> symbols, e.g. "pâté", "mañana", €, em-dash, non-breaking space._

> _Free – Free software released under the public domain. You don't have to
> buy a new keyboard, just install a program._

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stanley
This is a longshot, but has anyone here switched from Dvorak to Colemak and
can comment on the experience?

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CountHackulus
Pasting in some code and blog posts I had lying around was pretty eye-opening
for how terrible qwerty was for me.

What I think would be really interesting however would be to dump the results
of a keylogger with a weeks worth of data into it. Would definitely be more
accurate, and maybe interesting to see where my hands spend most of their time
during the week.

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agscala
If it wasn't for VIM, I'd consider switching to a more efficient keyboard
layout.

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baddox
Nice app. The pie charts really need to be replaced by something like bar
graphs. We are quite bad at comparatively judging area and angles, but rather
good at distances.

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Daniel42
Bépo keyboard layout is missing! Okay maybe it's because it's optimized for
writing in French... But after a false start and a painful first month I'm
really happy to have made the transition from the qwerty/azerty world.

The first month was really frustrating, especially at work or when using IM
but I'm glad I kept using it because for now, a few months after, it's a
pleasure to have every keys always right next to one of my finger and never
having to move my hands anymore.

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jamesbkel
Been holding out to try a new layout. I think it will be worthwhile to try out
a new layout... the issue is time.

I'm working at a 14-person marketing research startup (up from 6 in 2008 when
I started) in Boston and one of biggest issues me and my fellow coders have is
wrist pain.

We've resorted to wrist braces for the time being. I know this isn't a good
idea.

Any recommendations for ideal QWERTY setups? Been doing some research on
different keyboards, but would love to hear some opinions from HN.

~~~
donw
Might I suggest exercises that require grip? I've noticed that when I do a lot
of weight training, which means pull-ups, deadlifts, and handstand pushups,
that my wrist pain from typing is reduced quite noticeably.

~~~
jamesbkel
Will give that a try, thanks.

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saraid216
To echo agscala, unfortunately it's completely inaccurate and useless because
I use Vim. Maybe when I start writing prose again it will be useful. =P

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nitfol
How do they determine the "best layout" at the top? I pasted in a couple
hundred lines of code and it claims that Colemak is the best, but Arensito
(hadn't heard of it before) has fewer meters traveled and more home row usage
(where Colemak is beat by everything except QWERTY).

At any rate, all the layouts other than QWERTY and Personalized were within 10
percent of each other for meters traveled.

~~~
crux
In my case, Colemak was declared the best even though Capewell had less
travel—because, I believe, Colemak had a considerably greater proportion of
index-finger use. I reckon that because the Personalized layout clearly aims
for maximum index finger use, with a slight favor on the right.

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crashsystems
I've considered trying out a new keyboard layout for a while now. However, two
concerns have stopped me so far. So for those of you who use an alternate
layout, I have two questions:

* When you need to use a QWERTY keyboard, how easy is it for you to make the mental switch back and forth?

* Have you found that becoming accustomed to your new layout has had a negative impact on your typing speed in QWERTY?

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wowtip
I've always been intrigued by optimizing the keyboard for writing, and this
analyser is a really cool idea.

What has always stopped me from using one of these is that I am working at
lots of different boxes at work, and there is no way I could get a new layout
installed at them all, which I guess would make the switching back and forth
very awkward.

So... What is your experience? A hassle well worth it?

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bherms
What's the followup here? I'd like to give this a shot at some point, just for
a few days to see how it goes. I have been typing long enough that I
definitely don't need to look at a keyboard, so I'm guessing I'd need to pop
off all the keys, reconfigure, then find some sort of software that remaps the
keyboard? Or is something like this built into Windows and Mac?

~~~
Huppie
Dvorak is natively supported by both Windows, as well as the Mac. I believe
Colemak has instructions on their website <http://colemak.com/>.

My experience (I switched to Dvorak about 6 months ago) is that you really
need to be typing a lot before you get to type as fast as what you used to
type. Even after 6 months I'm still not as fast in Dvorak as I am in Qwerty. I
have to say it's definitely easier on the wrists though :)

Here's what I did to switch:

\- Switch all the keys on the keyboard of just one of my computers

\- Only that pc was dvorak for about a month

\- Lots of typing on typeracer (at least half an hour every single day)

\- Slowly start putting stickers on the keys (to force myself into touchtyping
with dvorak

\- After a month I installed DVAssist at work (this way I can quickly switch
between 'this needs to by typed _now_ (qwerty) mode' and 'Typing a bit slower
gives me more time to think about the solution mode')

\- I think after four months I switched entirely. (I still use DVAssist but
that's mostly for pair-programming.)

I found the following things to be the most difficult:

1) Passwords (I barely 'know' my passwords, I just know the rythm...)

2) Windows (When using DVAssist it's always a surprise what keyboard layout is
in use at the logon screen)*

* This does not happen if you just set two keyboard layouts in windows. You can switch to other layout with a keyboard shortcut (CTRL+SHIFT).

------
Symmetry
I'm sort of disappointed that on the personalized layout they didn't suggest
doing something useful with the caplock key.

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sumeetjain
The generated reports are kind of interesting - but they'll always be
incomplete in some way for programmers, because many of the keys we press
aren't captured in the outputted text. Keyboard shortcuts are my coding
lifeblood.

~~~
amalcon
On the other hand, you can change your keyboard shortcuts. (Probably.)

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kingkilr
Just pasted a big 'ole file of code (quickest document available to me).
QWERTY (current KB) is the worst, by a margin of about 2x (150 v 80 for
optimal v 84 for non-personalized optimal).

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ElbertF
Interestingly QWERTY came out the worst for me by far. To bad I'm a laptop and
Vim user.

~~~
Groxx
That's pretty much to be expected... QWERTY is downright horrible for
efficiency, regardless of (reasonable) use-case.

