
Cryptic, allusive messages from Hong Kong's wealthiest tycoon - fraqed
https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=44024
======
JulianMorrison
Conclusion: Chinese is absolutely the best language-family to make cryptic,
gnomic, multi-layered allusions and sound like you've lived 100,000 years up a
mountain eating nothing but fresh mountain air and magical peaches.

~~~
mc32
Obviously very unsophisticated compared to Chinese, but here is a similar
vehicle by Kubernator Schwarzenegger to the CA State assembly:
[https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_336319](https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_336319)

~~~
dqpb
That's pretty great

------
namelosw
If you speak Chinese, you'll find it's very easy to squeeze sentences in exact
same characters. Almost all poems in China (except very modern ones) do this.

It's so easy that people in forums do this a along - being sarcastic or just
funny. You could have positive meaning literally, but hide dirty words in
structures.

Also because it's so easy that this was defined as serious crime in many
dynasties. There were even people committed it by coincidence were sentenced
to death.

~~~
dspillett
_> committed it by coincidence were sentenced to death_

So they _sentenced_ themselves to death with an unfortunate sentence
structure.

~~~
zhoujianfu
I believe the correct joke is simply:

So they _sentenced_ themselves to death.

~~~
dspillett
Probably, I have a tendency to overcomplicate things, particularly when
explaining or otherwise talking to others, which can _really_ wreck jokes...

------
tony
If you like Chinese poetry / ancient writing, I'd like to mention wengu:

[http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?l=intro](http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?l=intro)

Text is laid out in the same fashion as OP. Wengu lets you mouseover
characters for translation and along with an interpretation:

\- Book of Odes:
[http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?l=Shijing&no=1](http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?l=Shijing&no=1)

\- Art of War:
[http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?l=Sunzi&s=1](http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?l=Sunzi&s=1)

\- Book of Changes:
[http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?l=Yijing&no=0](http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?l=Yijing&no=0)

\- Tao Te Ching:
[http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?l=Daodejing&no=0](http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?l=Daodejing&no=0)

\- Analects of Confucius:
[http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?l=Lunyu&no=1](http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?l=Lunyu&no=1)

------
jimworm
Li Ka-shing is well aware. His job ad for a Chinese PA was featured in the
news for its salary (HK$1Mpa) and very high requirements (expert level in
modern and classical Chinese and Chinese history, 20+ years experience).

[https://news.ltn.com.tw/news/world/breakingnews/1567579](https://news.ltn.com.tw/news/world/breakingnews/1567579)

~~~
JoshTko
That's about $125k USD. Which is high probably for a PA in general but
probably seem unsurprising for PAs for billionaires.

~~~
FabHK
Hong Kong, not USA. It's a good salary for HK.

------
est31
Loads very slowly for me. archive.org mirror:
[https://web.archive.org/web/20190822110138/https://languagel...](https://web.archive.org/web/20190822110138/https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=44024)

------
thecopy
The impasse Hong Kong finds itself must be solved by the Chief Executive. Her
leadership in this matter is severely lacking and one wonders if the has any
autonomous power at all, or if its all controlled by Beijing. Especially
seeing how she evaded that question quite gracelessly a few days ago when
asked by a reporter.

~~~
AmericanChopper
I don’t think anybody seriously thinks Hong Kong has any meaningful level of
autonomy. The impasse is that Hong Kongers want freedom and democracy, and
China wants Hong Kong to be China. I can’t see what the Chief Executive could
possibly do. Either the protestors will give up, or stage a revolution, which
seems unlikely for a population armed with umbrellas.

~~~
neonIcon
Really illustrates the importance of our own second amendment.

~~~
Spooky23
Not really. Civil disobedience is the only historically effective way to
defeat a modern state.

With open warfare, the historical playbook for putting down this sort of thing
is clear. Roll in the tanks, and infantry from Mongolia or whatever. Sometimes
the revolt get put down immediately, sometimes you end up with guerrilla
warfare.

~~~
guscost
> the only historically effective ... modern state

What a contorted argument. I assume that the British empire wasn’t a modern
state, and that history is less than one century long (and full of holes).

~~~
Spooky23
History is more than a century long, but a modern state by military standards
has been a thing since around the time of the civil war when rifles replaced
muskets and industrialization became a thing. That's the point where unlike in
the Napoleonic era, you can't win decisive victory on the battlefield, things
depend on political will, manpower and economic function.

Using your example of the British Empire, India didn't win independence
through combat, civil disobedience made it politically untenable for the
British to continue. That had far-ranging effects on what was left of the
colonies.

One of the arguments core to an advocate of the 2nd amendment with respect to
this issue is that a citizen militia, equipped with small arms, would be
capable of deterring a government from taking some action. It's an
increasingly absurd position.

~~~
kiliantics
I think you have an absurd understanding of history if you believe all of this
decolonisation happened nonviolently. Almost every independence movement
relied on the threat of violence. You are using the civil war itself as the
starting point, a brutally violent regime change. Ireland gained its
independence from Britain in no insignificant way thanks to violent means.
Most African nations gained their independence through violence. And even
India was not just freed through a barefoot bespectacled man walking around
singing kumbaya. Simplifying it to mere acts of civil disobedience is grossly
misrepresenting how complex the situation was.

------
appleflaxen
That appears to be an incredibly classy thing to do, at no small risk to
himself.

The billionaires have the most to lose with any social unrest, and he exposed
himself to support the masses.

If so: Respect

Counter-possibility: it's a CYA maneuver, which supports both sides
simlutaneously and either message can be declared as "intended" post-hoc.

~~~
phatfish
Agreed he has put himself in more "danger" by this action, but billionaires
like him certainly do not have the most to loose.

He will have investments, properties, friends or family outside HK. He can
simply pay his way to citizenship in most countries around the world.

The average HK citizen has everything to lose, their rights and way of life.
He will loose some money and property at the most, depending on how he decides
to play it.

~~~
munificent
I think both you and the parent comment are correct.

A billionaire has the greatest potential for _relative_ change from the
consequences of their actions. They have more chips they can put on the table
and thus they can experience a change in fortune larger than others.

At the same time, the poor have the greatest potential for _suffering_. With
fewer chips to put on the table, they are much closer to getting kicked out of
the game entirely.

------
smcl
Can someone who knows HK weigh in on how likely this is to be subtle
deliberate messaging, or whether it’s like Qanon (where “Q” just says vague
things, and the followers go _wild_ with all sorts of interpretations that
confirm what they already think).

~~~
starfallg
It's blindingly obvious that it's deliberate. Whether it's the graphic
designer or LKS that actually formulated it, that is debatable. I wouldn't bet
on the former though.

Keep in mind that Li fell out with Beijing and have cashed out most of his
assets in the Mainland over the last several years.

There is no way that the following phrase, formed by the the end characters of
each phrase in the ad, could be a coincidence.

因果由國 容港治己 義憤民誠

The only slightly questionable word choice is 由, but as the phrases are
supposed to be read as stanzas in a poem, I think liberties can be taken in
composition.

~~~
lioeters
This is really a classy move.

It's like a compact puzzle or "steganographic joke" \- intelligent, elegant,
satirical and even humorous in a way.

Constructing these interlocking phrases, one "public" and the other a
"private" message for those "in the know"; getting the right number of
characters and dots; even using his own name as part of the message.

I don't know anything about this billionaire, but I appreciate the effort that
went into this form of protest, it's a work of art.

------
SoylentOrange
To the Chinese native speakers here on HN: how clear would the message have
been to you, if you didn’t read the explanation on this website?

~~~
longsangstan
I have to admit it's not obvious to me at first. Especially for the second ad,
you need to have good knowledge of Chinese literature to know the story behind
the poem.

But once I read the explanation it became quite clear since there isn't really
other ways to interpret it.

------
andromeduck
The analysis is actually incomplete. Notice how the last line has a little
gap? If we combine the last words of the last two lines we actually get:

因果由國，容港治己，義憤民誠

The last part reads anger is righteous.

------
mytailorisrich
In 2011 he already made comments in support of universal suffrage in Hongkong.

Despite what is said in the media I don't think that this is 'brave' to state
this opinion. The key is how to say it and how to behave with respect to China
and the government.

~~~
ajmurmann
> The key is how to say it and how to behave with respect to China and the
> government.

Can you elaborate why it matters to be respectful to a dictator for life who
puts huge numbers of Uighurs in concentration camps?

~~~
literallycancer
with respect to = regarding

~~~
ajmurmann
It's ironic I interpreted the sentence wrong given the topic of the article.

------
JshWright
> The poem is by the dauphin (crown prince), Li Xian (655-684) under Wu Zetian
> (624-705), the only female emperor in Chinese history.

I've only ever heard the word "dauphin" in the context of a French crown
prince (starting with Charles V, when Philip VI gave him the Dauphiné region
to rule while he was still the heir). Is the term used more universally?

~~~
SoylentOrange
I’ve heard it in at least one other context: to mean “inheritor” or anointed
successor. Here is a quote from Gore Vidal:

‘I have been asked whether I wish to nominate a successor, an inheritor, a
dauphin or delfino. I have decided to name Christopher Hitchens.'

[https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/9443914/How-
Christ...](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/9443914/How-Christopher-
Hitchens-fell-out-with-Gore-Vidal.html)

I’ve seen other examples in this style. Maybe folks in comments can point out
more.

------
b_tterc_p
> “everyone knows what 4 / 6 /89 signifies”

This annoyed me quite a bit. No I don’t. Most people probably don’t.

It’s the date of Tiananmen Square.

~~~
JansjoFromIkea
Would Tiananmen Square not be your first guess for any date remotely close to
1989 though, given the context?

~~~
yoz-y
But a guess can be wrong. As somebody from Eastern Europe many other events
come to my mind first in relation with 1989.

~~~
andromeduck
And why would that be in any way relevant to an article about a Chinese ad
targeting other Chinese in China?

Contextually it's more than obvious for anyone even casually familiar with
Chinese history which the audience would be.

------
trepanne
I dunno, my classical Chinese ain't all that, but I think these guys are
straining with the hidden message. It is funny though.

I myself am reading quite a bit of meaning into the conspicuous avoidance of
the characters "tian", "an", and "men" throughout both ads.

The melon ad is fairly defiant, though, in a classy kind of way. If I were a
betting man, I'd take the other side. Preserving absolute rule of law in Hong
Kong is as doomed as the Taiwan independence movement. The Chinese anschluss
seems unstoppable.

~~~
andromeduck
If you read the link you'd see that did reference tiannamen by date via length
of column lines.

The complete hidden message is actually a bit longer:

因果由國，容港治己，義憤民誠

No way that's an accident.

------
dr_dshiv
I hope this all turns out well..

------
tontonius
This sentence has only one interpretations.

------
vinayms
Chinese is the spoken Lisp.

------
csyszf
"From born to die, you will always buy Li Ka-Shing's goods" "If there's God in
HongKong, his last name must be Li"

He and other oligarchs raise prices and exploit profits from people. HK Gov
tried several times to press down house prices (build public rental apartments
provided by gov, called 新界东北发展计划 ), all failed. What's the funniest part is,
HK GOV plan to dismantle the golf courses for building public apartments, and
was stopped by the name of environmental protection, House prices keep high,
and riches keep their golf courses.

Who will get the most benefit from those riots? Oligarchs, no competitors can
enter Hong Kong again. Li himself is the devil's advocate, those oligarchs
make young men can only live in cells, but nobody never is able to fight him
like they fight CCP now. In this a City with the 0.539 Gini coefficient, why
people hate the government on the other side than rich oligarchs? capital owns
media.

That, is the true power and true authority, make people fight for you while
you consume them.

All those things happened in Hongkong make me feel desperate about this evil
world.

I really hate this, no right, no wrong, no justice, no savior, everyone is
just puppet of God.

~~~
eee_honda
>In this a City with the 0.539 Gini coefficient, why people hate the
government on the other side than rich oligarchs? capital owns media.

This has perplexed me to no end. The straw that broke the camel's back was an
extradition treaty being proposed, and not the crushing living conditions that
have been worsening over the past two decades.

Sounds like you are a native. curious why you think this is the case outside
of the oligarchs owning media. If that's the case i can't see why the CCP is
complaining they lost control of the narrative via the press, if they never
had it in the first place.

~~~
csyszf
Yes, I'm from China mainland.

Just like some western opinion that why Chinese people don't fight their
government for democracy and free speech, I really can not understand why HK
people don't fight oligarchs for goods prices and living house.

Every few years, some protests happen in Hong Kong, None of those protests is
aiming to the oligarchs, some people do hate Li, but the most far they can do
is ridiculing and complaining.

>If that's the case i can't see why the CCP is complaining they lost control
of the narrative via the press, if they never had it in the first place

the CCP attached great importance to propaganda from the beginning (the
1930s). At that time, they do have the advantage of propaganda (compare to the
Kuomintang), and now the CCP has lost its ability and skills, the official
media of CCP are barely welcome by Chinese, very many young men dislike them.
Those years what the CCP propaganda department can do is only to delete and
forbidden the contents they dislike, and this usually has the opposite effect
- more and more people don't trust them

~~~
calyth2018
> Just like some western opinion that why Chinese people don't fight their
> government for democracy and free speech, I really can not understand why HK
> people don't fight oligarchs for goods prices and living house.

In some HKer's perspective, they detest how the current administration had
been in bed with the oligarchs. In their view, gaining universal suffrage (not
only 1 person one vote, but a free nomination) would help with that situation.

This problem is not new - it's an old problem that existed in the colonial
state. The definition of a colony is to extract wealth for their masters, so
colonial administrations and oligarchs work hand in hand.

Even if one could separate that fight between the administration and the
oligarch, there are other structural issues for the administration. HK
administration, colonial or SAR, is highly dependent on land leases as its
source of income. In it's pursuit of being the "most capitalist city", the tax
base is very narrow - income tax is very low, no sales tax, etc... So it is
_not_ in HK administration's interest to lower housing prices because that
would affect its own budget.

And if one were to temporarily cast aside their own views, and look at the
incentive a little, there are other political problems - pro-democrats
typically controls the legislature (spare this case of disqualifying a few),
but they have no hope of becoming part of the executive council, where the
Chief Exec heads, and Beijing has control of the nomination. So there's not a
lot of incentive to work well together between the legislature and the
executive.

------
improvehk
Somewhat relevant, this tattoo says "香港" (Hong Kong) or "加油" (Add Oil) when
rotated:

[https://twitter.com/natashakhanhk/status/1164060311743156224](https://twitter.com/natashakhanhk/status/1164060311743156224)

