
Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up - superchink
https://char.gd/blog/2017/why-i-left-mac-for-windows-apple-has-given-up
======
tyteen4a03
The only reason I'm staying with macOS is because it is the only UNIX
distribution that doesn't look downright ugly. (Sorry Linux, none of your
distros match up to Apple's offering)

I've had lots of teething issues with High Sierra (especially with APFS) and I
certainly don't like the new butterfly keyboard in the new MacBook Pros. But
on the other hand, they've got the best gesture controls. With Windows 10 you
can go far with precision touchpads, but I have yet to use it enough to say
whether I like it or not. Screenshot shortcuts (Cmd+Shift+4) is another thing
I use on a daily basis that's still not in Windows 10.

When my 2014 MacBook Pro is due for replacement, Windows might be a contender.
But that's probably a few more years down the road (hopefully).

~~~
lokedhs
Since Apple has given up on keeping what really matters for a Unix, its tools,
up to date the amount of time you have to spend installing the latest version
of things like Bash is actually higher for OSX than Windows these days.

I am aware that at least one of the reasons for Apple to ship stone-age
versions of everything from Emacs to GCC is that they hate GPL3. But the
reasons don't matter when the latest version of their operating system is
unable to run modern software without installing a set of packages that more
or less replaces all of the Unix tools. When you have to do that, it doesn't
really matter if you install those tools on top of Windows or OSX.

As for myself I find Windows to be absolutely unusable and I was using Linux
up until around 2002 when I switched h to the Mac. Lately however, Apple's
utter disregard for technical users that prefer the Unix experience has made
me switch back to Linux, and while Linux has issues of its own, at least
everything works out of the box without having to deal with an entire separate
ecosystem of packages on top of what is provided by the operating system
itself.

~~~
tyteen4a03
Homebrew works for me. It's unfortunate how behind Apple's toolchain is, but I
interact with its GUI more than the terminal.

~~~
lokedhs
It worked for me as well, but it was a constant hassle.

Once I realised that I barely used any Mac-specific software anymore, the
choice to move back to Linux was easy.

------
lz400
I've recently switched from an old Mac Pro to a Lenovo x1 carbon (QHD, 16gb
RAM, 512 SSD, i7). It was half the price of the equivalent current Mac Pro,
with more ports and better battery life, no gimmicky touch bar BS and a _much_
better keyboard imho (although the trackpad is worse).

Software wise, I use Windows 10 with the linux subsystem + a Linux VM
(Elementary OS). I must confess both Windows and Linux are still a bit behind
in hidpi support and the linux subsystem is not as well integrated as a MacOS
console but I'm in general quite happy and while Apple designs these
overpriced underpowered laptops with horrible features I can't really go back,
even though the software stack might still be a little bit better for
developers.

~~~
WalterGR
_although the trackpad is worse_

I haven't found a single Windows laptop whose trackpad can be pushed in (thus
registering a mouse click) at the top of the trackpad. All I can think is that
Apple is aggressively asserting some patent(s).

Is there an alternate explanation? Have I just not come across Windows laptops
with good trackpads?

~~~
lz400
The 2 finger scrolling is pretty bad too, frequently doesn't respond or makes
the font bigger or other nonsense. Apple has the best trackpads no doubt.

------
aaossa
Why is this flagged? It seems like an opinion from an informed user, an
opinion like many others I've read in HN. Also, it was an interesting read for
me.

~~~
Corrado
I think it was flagged because the original article was posted back in
March[0] and this is viewed as a reposting. However, the article has been
updated and I think it's perfectly fine to re-post something from over 6
months ago. I certainly don't remember seeing it the first time around and
appreciate it being posted now.

[0][https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13797042](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13797042)

------
jshaqaw
The Mac platform is comatose and we all know it. The author is dead right with
his points. I switched to Mac about 10 years ago and was blown away by how
amazing it was. A year ago I got a Windows machine at work. At first I was
horrified by the idea but Windows has come so far in the last few years. It’s
a perfectly fine platform now and has largely caught up.

~~~
nachosgalore
The issue with Windows is the telemetry. You simply cannot disable it. Yes,
you can waste time ticking everything off, but with the next update, it's back
again. No, thank you.

I want to use an operating system that respects my privacy. For me, this is
OpenBSD, FreeBSD, or Fedora/Debian Linux.

I use Windows at work, too, and am horrified daily by how utterly difficult it
is to use compared to Linux or FreeBSD.

~~~
desuvader
I personally haven't had an issue with disabling telemetry. Also, stumbled
upon this a while back (maybe worth checking out):
[https://github.com/W4RH4WK/Debloat-
Windows-10](https://github.com/W4RH4WK/Debloat-Windows-10)

------
steanne
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13797042](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13797042)

------
api_or_ipa
Nothing more than bitching, moaning, complaining and fanboying about
ecosystems. Sure, there are issues in the mac ecosystem that frustrate me but
the mac ecosystem, on the whole, is an excellent system that works great for
most people. Plus, there are a large number of 3rd party solutions to tailor
the experience to your needs.

Since we're allowing fanboying, Windows is still by far the biggest pile of
shit to work on and lags way behind Linux or Mac in developer experience. To
me the linux subsystem is just another attempt to save a sinking ship. The
author would be way better off getting comfortable in hisfavourite flavour of
linux and build the environment exactly as he'd like.

~~~
cmurf
I thought the Windows Subsystem for Linux was kinda funny, but actually it's
so well integrated and useful for all the reasons people like using Linux
(more correctly, their shell of choice). Where Apple is so neurotically anti-
GPLv3 that they've allowed the GPLv2 stuff in macOS to get extremely old. And
I see no evidence those ancient tools like rsync 2.1.9 are even getting
security updates. That is the platform I see sinking, at least that part of
it.

It also sucks to VM, it's not even legal to VM it if not on Apple hardware. It
sucks when running other OS's in a VM. Seriously, XNU just does not like being
host or guest, it becomes a CPU and memory pig like no other OS.

~~~
dillera
The WSL is absolutely not integrated at all. It's pretty horrible.

What terminal do you use with it? Powershell? How do you cut and paste between
terminals? Tabs? I found the only way to have a decent Unix terminal
experience was to run an Xserver and connect to it from powershell.

Install git in WSL, clone down some projects and then access those files you
just cloned down from Windows Explorer. Show the integration there...

The MacOS/Unix integration is light-years ahead of WSL- because the MacOS
actually runs Unix, it's not just bolted on.

The people that claim that WSL is integrated with W10 can't have used it for
more than 30 min. Otherwise they wouldn't comment about it.

~~~
cmurf
It's a fair point that it is not as well integrated as the native approach
that you get with either macOS or Linux or BSD. But you absolutely should be
able to right click copy paste between terminals. And yes I can update Apple's
crusty shit with Homebrew, but the staleness of Apple's CLI tools is a blight.

~~~
dillera
Well I have to use chocolately with W10.. which is the same thing as HB for
OSX. The LSW is a totally sep system in there- an install of python on LSW
cannot work with the python installed in windows.

This is completley not true of Home Brew on OSX.

------
sfled
Apple's best innovations have been in the form of exploiting tax shelters.

------
gremlinsinc
Yuck... Why not try arch linux? Much better... imho. Antergos is a good user
friendly distro that I highly recommend.

Why is it always windows vs apple..when linux -- esp for tech savvy
folks/developers is so much better?

~~~
tyteen4a03
Because none of the Linux distros look as good as what Apple (or even
Microsoft) has to offer.

ElementaryOS is heading in the right direction, but I cannot shake off the
feeling that it's still using design languages relevant to 2010, not 2017.

~~~
gremlinsinc
Why is all about gui/looks?

Learn to live in the terminal, and all will be well... I say that and I still
haven't completely grokked VIM, but I CAN exit!

~~~
tyteen4a03
I care about not having a burning urge to stab my eyes every 5 seconds :)

------
microcolonel
Microsoft has also given up, it seems. They recently removed MS Paint, and
suggested that Paint3D would be its replacement. Paint3D can not be removed
(it will reinstall itself), and inserts a firewall rule(!) presumably to help
call home.

Even the "Enterprise" editions of Windows 10 don't respect settings correctly,
and happily engage in high-risk always-on data collection at the expense of
whoever owns the internet connection. They've even backported this misfeature
to Windows 7 as an automatic update, as far as I'm told.

 _And I might be saying that this was all okay in the long run, if the quality
of Windows had actually improved as a result of this wholesale mandatory data
collection, but to my eyes, it has gotten worse if anything._

All that being said, I'd agree that Microsoft is (if you can stomach all of
this) at least trying to maintain a desktop operating system. "macOS" has
completely lost its way. When a new release comes out, you don't get _fewer
bugs_ , you just get _different bugs_ because they apparently keep rewriting
everything.

Frankly, after having used every version of both macOS and Windows in the last
15 years, some extensively in a professional setting, I'm glad I get to use
Linux at home (and 95% of the time at work). If things are broken, it's at
least usually because they never worked to begin with, which is a much more
hopeful position, especially being the sort of developer who doesn't mind
digging in a bit to fix something or at least write an excellent bug report.

~~~
leggomylibro
Seriously. Win7 had a lot of the 'simple stuff just works' without the home-
phoning, but how long d'you think a Windows 7 machine will be able to stay
connected to the internet?

~~~
scott_karana
It'll receive security patches until January 14, 2020.

[https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/help/13853/windows-
lifec...](https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-
fact-sheet)

~~~
leggomylibro
So, ~2 years. Case in point :(

------
rayiner
What is there left to do on the desktop? Where recent Apple machines shine is
fitting into a really good ecosystem. I can receive a text on my Mac, iPhone,
iPad, or Watch. I can pull out my Mac and it instantly connects to the LTE on
my iPad. It’s seamless and it works with no configuration. Windows is still
not there yet.

~~~
domenukk
This works perfectly fine on Windows for both windows phone and Android. I can
reply Android texts, whatsapps and even third party apps from a windows
desktop.

~~~
fro0116
Mind sharing how to actually do this with Android?

~~~
domenukk
You have to install the cortana app and maybe get the insider preview version
of windows 10,hoever I'm not sure about that

------
fori1to10
Linux! I began as a Windows only user, then switched to Linux and never looked
back. Now I have been using a Mac for the last couple of months. At first it
felt pretty slick (the touchpad is awesome), but after a while, I just want my
precious Linux back.

~~~
WalterGR
_after a while, I just want my precious Linux back._

How long had you used Linux? How long did you use a Mac?

I'm curious how much of that longing for Linux was a desire for familiarity,
and how much was a reflection of a superiority of Linux / flaw in Macs.

------
MuppetMaster42
At my startup we just bought 4 new 2017 13" MBPs. We bought some expensive USB
c to HDMI adapters so we could connect two monitors to them.

3 out of the 4 MBPs have a fault which causes the second screen to flicker and
bug out. We tried every combination of the adapters but the 3 MBPs were
consistently faulty.

After searching the web, it turns out this is a very common defect in them
since at least 2016.

The repairs will be covered by Apple care, but it doesn't excuse the fact that
our brand new laptops have to be sent for repairs before they're even used.

Plus we've lost time whilst we wait for them to be fixed.

Learned the hard way to make sure we buy stock in advance so we can test and
repair it before it's needed.

~~~
peterbraden
Oh yes, I have this issue. It also makes doing a presentation from the laptop
impossible as the projector would keep disconnecting.

------
woudsma
(opinionated)

why i stay with apple (so far), all my macbooks lasted 4-6+ years so far -
with pretty much 0% performance loss, UNIX(!!), and stuff just works. also i
don't want to deal with anti-virus software, an ugly command line interface,
and terrible UI design in general.

got my macbook screen + motherboard replaced for free, i didn't bring a
receipt, 2.5yrs after i got it. done in 4 days. that's pretty awesome customer
service IMO.

not that enthusiastic about the latest MBP's though, let us have some ports
and physical escape key pls

~~~
cucumberferity
Apple is still pretty awesome, let’s see if they respond to the criticism.

------
dizzydes
Web app dev here.

Used Ubuntu on my old thinkpad. Bought a newer thinkpad and the drivers
wouldn't work for ubuntu. Reluctantly stuck with the pre-installed Win 10 with
new Ubuntu Bash extension (I wanted to stick with linux command line) and
haven't looked back.

Apart from some issues with Docker (which I don't use anyways but I'm sure
some of you do) haven't noticed any real issues developing exactly as I did on
Ubuntu :)

------
nmstoker
Give KDE Plasma a shot! It's pretty good looking, works with a range of
Linux's and there's even their own distro Neon now. I use it with Arch and
it's a great combo!

~~~
gremlinsinc
I found plasma a bit buggy on Kubuntu, but everything runs better on Arch, so
maybe I should give it another go... I generally run gnome+i3 on Antergos
distro.

------
doall
The main reason I'm still sticking to Mac is because I sometimes do iOS app
development and I want first class support for it.

------
Arubis
"Why I cut off my nose to spite my face"

------
singularity2001
dire warning: ubuntu for Windows isn't production ready yet

------
sillysaurus3
Got a Macbook Pro in 2016. As of today, the E, R, and T keys have all stopped
working. Apple wants $500 for a logic board replacement.

It was fine when it was just the R key. Sort of. I set up bash scripts to
copy-paste "r" to my clipboard, and just pressed command-V instead of "r". But
then the T key went out.

~~~
KayL
My Macbook's J,K,L was broken and I clone the English input and re-mapping
them into Shift+ "M,<,>"

[http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=...](http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=ukelele)

~~~
dvfjsdhgfv
That's hilarious.

And yesterday I read someone's comment on HN that Apple support is "the best
in the world".

But seriously, something is _really_ wrong here.

------
dillera
I don't understand what the author wants to actually do with his Mac other
than screw around with VR.

What feature is lacking today in OSX that stops any developer from uh actually
coding and working? What do you want Apple to add? Oh, wait for it....

Stickers in iMessage? You really want that? I did a spit take when I read this
and then I realized this was nothing but some click-bait.

~~~
not_kurt_godel
> lifelong Windows user

> gets a Mac and "finally pick[s] up web development" in 2013

> laments lack of iMessage stickers

> goes back to Windows because they have a 'Linux' terminal

Yup, click-bait.

