

Attention Startups, Online Gambling May Be the Big Market in New York for 2012 - pier0
http://www.betabeat.com/2011/12/27/new-yorks-online-gambling-system-poised-for-launch/

======
moocow01
Attention Startups, -- great opportunity-- you could be at the forefront of
enriching yourselves with the money of America's poor and addicted! Of all the
problems out there to be solved this is truly the one opportunity not to be
missed... :(

~~~
cobrabyte
I've always thought of poker as a game of skill. Sure, it's more or less
dictated by the odds but a proficient player is able to make you second-guess
those odds.

I agree with you in regards to online slots and blackjack. There's a definite
house edge and you're always playing a losing game in the long run. These
games are engineered to give a false sense of strategy to less-intelligent
participants.

I don't think games of true skill should be lopped-in with slots and
lotteries.

~~~
yahelc
I don't think its a question of if poker is a skill; people, skilled or
unskilled, can become dangerously addicted to poker and lose their shirts in
the process. Most legitimate games of skill do not involve risking your
livelihood to participate.

To "disrupt" the gambling industry is to inevitably profit off of addicts.

(Though, the same could be said of booze makers and alcoholics.)

~~~
paulhauggis
"To "disrupt" the gambling industry is to inevitably profit off of addicts."

The same can be said about MMORPGS. I knew many people from highschool that
never graduated because of this addiction.

More people need to take personal responsibility for their decisions. Many
people gamble and are not addicted.

~~~
cobrabyte
Absolutely. I've seen quite a few friends literally wreck their lives by
playing WoW and other MMORPGs.

I used to play poker with a group of local friends. It started off friendly
enough ($50 tournaments). They started playing a lot of cash games and the
table stakes got crazy (e.g. $1k+ hands). Needless to say, I left that group
behind.

It's a matter of personal discipline. If you can't afford to throw the money
out the window, you shouldn't be playing. I play because I enjoy the _game_
and the company of friends.

------
marquis
As a concerned citizen who has seen gambling cause havoc in poor communities,
I hope that the next revolution in online gambling is one where actually money
is not required.

For those of you thinking of the potential for income please consider where
the money is coming from. While a gambler will still find somewhere to lose
his/her money it would be heartening to see systems implemented that are on
the lookout for addicts, while providing entertainment for those who can
afford to spend (I have no problem with gambling and enjoy a game of poker, or
going to the races, myself, but I 'play to lose'.)

~~~
paulhauggis
"I hope that the next revolution in online gambling is one where actually
money is not required."

That's called Farmville and many other online games. The revolution, in that
regard, is here.

Business is all about risk. As an example: when you purchase advertising, you
are gambling on the fact that you will get enough buyers to cover the cost of
advertising.

Should we ban advertising too?

Instead of trying to protect the world by banning these things, we need to
educate more people on their risks. If they choose not to listen, it is at
their own peril. Hopefully they will learn life's harsh lessons.

~~~
marquis
>Hopefully they will learn life's harsh lessons.

I don't think that's really fair. Are you familiar with the effects of
gambling in poor communities? Every pokie machine can have a sign on it that
says 'Gambling ruins you and your family' and it doesn't help. Enabling a
community to flourish in it's own right is what stops gambling.

Anyway, what I was pointing out is that the online gambling industry has so
far worked well to get money out of two types of people: those who can afford
to lose, and those who can't. I'd like to see anyone going into this industry
really focusing on the first group and not being predatory in attracting the
second. How? I don't know but I'll support whoever manages it with my own
poker-chip purchases.

An example: be a good gambling franchise and put 30% of your profit into
addiction awareness and support (something like this is mandatory in Australia
for example I believe).

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hello_moto
Having been exposed in the so-called "Online Gaming" companies, I really wish
there are less of them.

Maybe it was a bad exposure/experience for me but those companies are filled
with your typical fraudster/scammer (kind of like that MegaUpload guy, or the
Bodog guy).

If you looked at the recent trend in EPL (English Premier League, Football),
it's a bit concerning where there are a few mediocre teams being sponsored by
these companies and with lots of around the field ads promoting their sites.

------
gexla
A gambler will find a way to gamble his/her money. I'm assuming there are
casino's in most states in the U.S. (Indian reservations) and online gambling
laws weren't much of a deterrent to the hard core. I would rather the U.S.
legalize and regulate gambling rather than leave the regulation to
questionable jurisdictions in island nations I have never heard of.

Competing in this space would be difficult. Licensing is expensive. The
competition is huge and well entrenched.

~~~
chegra
>>rather than leave the regulation to questionable jurisdictions in island
nations I have never heard of.

You never heard about a place but they are a questionable jurisdiction?

"Antigua is a recognised centre for online gambling companies. Antigua was one
of the very first nations to legalise, licence and regulate online gaming."[1]

"Stable Jurisdiction: Antigua and Barbuda is an independent nation state with
a stable Westminster-style democratic government. General elections are
constitutionally due every five (5) years.

Antigua is a member of the Organization of Eastern Caribbean States (OECS),
and is one of the fastest growing economies in that region. The currency is
the Eastern Caribbean dollar, which is pegged to the US dollar at a rate of
EC$2.7 to the dollar."[2]

When I was growing up[I'm an Antiguan], Antigua had the most ip per users in
the world. Even right now they are working to keep their infrastructure top
notch.

Investors don't invest in countries that are unstable[insert something about
PESTLE here[3]]. The fact that it's a internet gambling hub testify to its
stability for economic venture. The people in power are pretty cognizant of
the fact that they need to appear stable and have a transparent democracy.

[1][http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigua#Internet_hosting_and_ga...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigua#Internet_hosting_and_gaming)

[2][http://www.investantiguabarbuda.org/abia/offshore/financial_...](http://www.investantiguabarbuda.org/abia/offshore/financial_services.aspx)

[3]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PEST_analysis>

~~~
TheCowboy
Antigua-based Absolute Poker, which also bought and now owns Ultimate Bet, has
been plagued with scandal after scandal with no oversight or intervention by
the government.

They also happened to be spending the cash of players, rather than carrying
enough cash on hand to cover all obligations to players AND maintaining a
firewall that keeps their deposits from being considered part of the
corporation.

Many professional players I know are out of significant sums of money. As a
player myself, I don't consider Antigua-hosted gaming corporations
trustworthy.

~~~
chegra
Was anything filed with the Police?

~~~
TheCowboy
Police? Police don't handle these matters. And the reason these companies
locate in Antigua and other places is due to lax laws and enforcement.

By Antigua's standards, they have done no wrong. If there is no law on the
books that protects players, then they broke no law. If they choose to limit
withdrawals to $1 per week, what law are they breaking? There will be no
justice here. The best one can hope for is that they somehow survive long
enough to get back on secure financial footing.

There are other examples from other small island countries. Look at
Microgaming and companies that ran 'skin' sites on their network. Years have
gone by and there has been zero progress, and what information is available is
sparse and contradictory.

I was affected by one of these sites, and you think that calling the Malta
police on Eurolinx will accomplish anything? The money is gone having
disappeared into the pockets of the owners, and the owners are gone. Any
investors, creditors, or customers will see no money. And in some cases, any
money that exists will go to creditors before the players.

~~~
chegra
Give the ppl below a call.

And have a read of the financial regulations:

[http://www.antiguagaming.gov.ag/files/Antigua_and_Barbuda_Ga...](http://www.antiguagaming.gov.ag/files/Antigua_and_Barbuda_Gaming_Regulations-
Final.pdf)

________________

Financial Services Regulatory Commission

Division of Gaming

2nd Floor - West Wing

First Caribbean Financial Centre

Old Parham Road

P.O. Box 588

St John's

Antigua and Barbuda

West Indies

Tel: (268) 481 3300

Fax: (268) 481 3305

Email: Director: director@antiguagaming.gov.ag

General Information: info@antiguagaming.gov.ag

------
dmor
Online gambling, and gambling in general, is is a huge opportunity. PokerStars
and FultTilt poker were 1.0 versions of something that could be a much more
powerful experience. Those sites primarily focused on taking offline games and
bringing them online, without doing much to augment the experience. For every
one of those who tried to make a living (for a minute) playing a dozen sit-
and-go tournaments, or others who tried to write bots against the system,
there were thousands of players just looking to relieve some stress after a
long day.

Personally, I'd like to see an intersection of gambling in the traditional
sense with social games from Zynga and others and also with eGaming like Star
Craft II and Diablo.

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e03179
Gambling from a mobile device will be huge. Not only will the gambling market
see an explosion, but there will be spinoffs, such a security and cheat
detection companies.

Also, a market that is growing fast that you may not be aware of is daily
fantasy sports. Fantasy Football is considered a "game of skill". So,
companies are popping up that allow users to build "fantasy teams" that only
play for one week. Basically, you are using your skill to pick the best
players for the week.

IMO, the companies that are doing well in this market have poor marketing and
a 1990's aura about them. Someone could just in right now, buy a subscription
to a stats provider, make a slick mobile app, and take the whole market.

------
jc4p
This could be big news for the guys over at Betable, whose blog is seemingly
on the front page of HN every time they make a new post.

