

Simple steps to better typography - daralthus
http://www.markboulton.co.uk/journal/comments/five-simple-steps-to-better-typography

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kijin
In Part 2 of the series, the author recommends "hanging punctuation" (no
indentation on the left side, bullets and quotation marks pushed out into the
left margin) because indentation on the left side "interrupts the flow of
text".

But I don't think that's right. When you switch from a regular paragraph to a
list, and then back to another regular paragraph, you usually _want_ to
interrupt the flow of text. You _want_ the reader to know that what follows is
a list, not just a continuation of the last paragraph. Similarly, when you put
a quote in its own paragraph, it's usually because you _want_ the reader to
notice that what they're reading is a quote from somebody else. Or if it's a
novel, you _want_ the reader to know that one person is done speaking and
another person has begun to talk.

Texts have structure, and typography should make the structure clear to the
reader. Not indenting on the left side at all might make your blocks look
prettier, but I would much rather have large margins around lists so that they
stand out from the surrounding text. Large gaps and indentations are much more
effective at conveying interruption than some symbols in the left margin.

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tiddchristopher
Designer here. I recommend aligning your bullets with the paragraphs above and
below for inline text, and hanging to reinforce the grid when you have blocks
of content next to each other horizontally -- say, two paragraphs and a list.

I hope this makes sense.

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Jare
I had the same doubts as the parent poster, and I couldn't make sense of your
example. I'm very intrigued, and would appreciate further details.

~~~
tiddchristopher
This is an example I threw together to demonstrate:

<http://i.imgur.com/0z73s.png>

I hope it helps explain.

Also, lbotos posted an excellent example of hanging quotes and other non-
bullet punctuation.

If you find yourself liking typographic details like these, consider checking
out The Elements of Typographic Style by Bringhurst. Old editions are cheap,
and it's the best book on typography I've come across.

~~~
Jare
That is perfect, thank you very much!

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melling
Mark has a publishing company "Five Simple Steps"
(<http://www.fivesimplesteps.com/>) that has some interesting books. Has
anyone read any of the books? I discovered him on the Web Ahead podcast, which
I highly recommend:

<http://5by5.tv/webahead/9>

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state
As someone with a fair amount of experience with design and type I know these
posts aren't targeted at me. However, they always read a bit like a quick
weight-loss scheme or a secrets of remodeling kind of thing. Perhaps the
better analogy would be something like 'Write great Python in five easy
steps!' — which would likely never climb very high around here. Specific
thoughts on typography are interesting, but these "shortcuts" always bother me
since they sell short the nuance of the craft.

I realize this kind of thing is useful to people with little design
experience, but I would encourage those people to keep in mind that there's no
shortcut to writing great code nor making great design.

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mzarate06
_A simple rule is your leading should be wider than your word spacing._

As a developer, this is the type of post I find very informative. But, what is
_leading_?

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stan_rogers
_Leading_ (pronounced _ledding_ ) is the spacing between lines of text. It was
originally adjusted using strips of lead (Pb) between lines of type; thus the
name.

~~~
state
And in our world of pixels on the web you might think of it as the line-height
property in CSS.

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vpdn
"The kind of typography I’m talking about is not your typical “What font
should I use” typography but rather your “knowing your hanging punctuation
from your em-dash” typography."

Is there a good solution to the first problem? I constantly find myself
confronted with the problem which font I should use. Is there maybe a service
that suggests fonts based on a visual design? Or even based on the 'purpose'
of a site?

~~~
liamondrop
The point of the article is that the first problem is not so much a problem
and more of an afterthought compared to the more fundamental issues of
spacing, proportion, weight, characters per line, and placement on the page,
which all equal readability. Once you have considered those, you can more or
less drop in whatever typeface you like and then ask yourself whether it
improves or detracts from readability and whether it matches the overall tone
you are trying to set with your design.

~~~
Chris_Newton
_The point of the article is that the first problem is not so much a problem
and more of an afterthought compared to the more fundamental issues of
spacing, proportion, weight, characters per line, and placement on the page,
which all equal readability._

I strongly disagree. These decisions are never independent in practice, but if
anything, I’d say the specific font(s) used in a design would influence
choices of spacing and layout more than the other way around. For example, I
don’t think you can choose leading or justification settings well without
taking into account factors like the x-height and typical character widths in
your text.

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marban
Recommended Tool: Golden Ratio Typography Calculator
<http://www.pearsonified.com/typography/>

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roymabookie
Incongruous Feline

