

The Problem With Zoints (a look at a failed start-up) - unalone
http://unalone.net/essays/the-problem-with-zoints/

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jaytee_clone
Very insightful social analysis of the web (though a small part of the web).
Maybe rewrite it so it's more succinct? I'm picky about writing because I'm a
bad writer.

In any case, I feel you.

However, I think "individualism web" will deflate if it's not deflating
already. And "collectivism web" is making its comeback. Many community-
oriented people are working on this, myself included.

Not saying that either one will die out. Individualism and collectivism are
evolutionarily inter-dependent traits that we've all inherited. I just wish we
can address these issues more as suppose to always talking about getting more
user, more traffic, and more buzz. (Not that they don't matter.)

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unalone
This is the second revision. I could shorten it, but I wanted in part to talk
about the forum-owners scene, along with talking about start-ups in general.
Forums are where I first entered the Internet, and I still look on them
fondly: this essay was partially a reminiscence. Is that what you were talking
about?

I think that individualism web appeals to vastly more people than collectivism
does. I'd guess that there's ample room for both online. Most people use the
Internet for recreation primarily, though, and most people don't want to
recreate beyond the small-talk level.

I remember telling friends about Zoints: this was before I even had a MySpace
account. I would excitedly show them how many web pages I had and how many
more I could make; I showed them how you could drag-and-drop. I think the most
sympathetic reaction I got was "Oh, wow, that's neat." A few people actually
did register, but there was never anything there to keep them active. Zoints
didn't encourage frivolity.

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jaytee_clone
Forum was my first love too.

I agree that individualism web appeals to a lot more people. And yes, most
people still use internet for recreation purposes only. But that's changing.
My understanding of individualism and collectivism is that they are not two
separate entities. In fact, they feed on each other. For example, let's look
at this "evolution"

1\. Lots of people experiment with individual expression on live journal (or
whatever was popular back then)

2\. Good writers get more attention, bad writers drop out

3\. Some of the better writers get so many traffic that they decide to open
independent blogs

4\. The best of the blogs always serve critical functionality for the
community (consciously or not). Either by delivering valuable information,
e.g. news, or by (virtual) bringing people together, e.g. comic strips.

When I look at this evolutionarily, it just makes sense to me. Humans are
collective animals. We know that one of the main reasons that collectivism
works so well is because of Divisions of Labor. Interestingly, at the core of
Division of Labor is the requirement that everyone takes on a specialized and
often unique role, which is very individualistic.

Thus it is important to work towards the "few but better blogs" kind of
collectivism-individualism system.

I'm pretty confident that on a larger time-scale, the internet is going in
that direction. At least for myself, I enjoy a well organized forum a lot more
than having 400+ facebook friends.

~~~
unalone
Yeah, but you and I are in a minority there. The vast majority of people
prefer people they know, even barely, to people they don't know.

------
rewind
Do you intentionally not allow IE users to view your site? I get redirected to
<http://www.shlomifish.org/no-ie/> when I try to view your site using IE7.

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ars
I can understand blocking IE6, but not IE7.

~~~
unalone
IE7 messes up the floating layout that I use for my site, same as IE6. I don't
consider myself a dedicated programmer per se: I don't have tolerance for
coding to browsers that don't at least meet Acid 2 compliance.

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ram1024
that's actually fascinating. i had no idea such a movement even existed (not
meant as a disparaging remark in any way).

my startup plans to incorporate forums so this was an insightful read.

