
‘Serial,’ Podcasting’s First Breakout Hit, Sets Stage for More - benbreen
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/24/business/media/serial-podcastings-first-breakout-hit-sets-stage-for-more.html
======
netcan
I've heard that when TV started spreading people thought it would never
overtake radio. "Who has time to just sit and watch something?" You can listen
to audio while you do other things.

Podcasting is probably my main "media" for the last 5 or so years. I listen to
15-20 hours per week as I commute, exercise, wash dishes…

Right now. As a marginal, unprofitable, poorly understood medium podcasts are
amazingly "free." At least some of that stems from podcasting being broken.

Anyway, if anyone is looking for some fertile space to innovate, podcasting is
it. Discovery is completely and utterly broken. Even just getting a podcast
that you know the name of can be borderline impossible for less savvy users.
Podcasting apps kind of suck too. Podcasts struggle to get interaction, which
is important for discovery.

~~~
danschuller
Any recommendations?

I'm loving Serial, I listened to nearly all of it today. Occasionally I listen
to Startups For the Rest of Us
([http://www.startupsfortherestofus.com/](http://www.startupsfortherestofus.com/))
but it's hit and miss if the content is relevant for me. Hardcore History is
excellent.

It'd be nice to discover some more.

~~~
adriand
This American Life, the show that created (I think more or less), Serial, is a
great show. 99% Invisible is a great show about design. Radio Diaries is
interesting. If you're into super thoughtful discussions about religion,
science, meditation, and so on, On Being is fantastic. Other ones worth
checking out:

* Radiolab

* Stuff You Should Know

* Studio 360

But - Serial is definitely my favourite podcast of all time. I'm not sure
there's anything better out there.

~~~
skrause
Does anyone else feel that Radiolab is incredibly over-produced? I've tried to
get into it several times, but the fast cuts (after pretty much every sentence
it cuts to another speaker) somehow make me nervous. I guess I'm just more
into longer talk shows.

~~~
netcan
That's the experiment :)

Radiolab is really an experimental way of doing audio. Jad is a composer and
they break all the traditional rules to make it very immersive. Personally, I
like it. But, I also like the virtually no production, talk podcasts too.

------
abdurraheem
[http://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/2mxkje/hae_mi...](http://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/2mxkje/hae_min_lee_memorial_tree_photos_and_tour_of/)

I grew up not far from Woodlawn High, attended a neighboring school. After
hearing about the trees that were planted in Hae Min's memory, particularly
the second tree which was planted behind the school where "Lee liked to flop
after an exhausting practice session with the lacrosse or field hockey teams"
I recalled doing exactly that every summer after baseball practice (summer
league was at woodlawn high) and I was curious to know if the tree giving me
shade all those years was the one planted in her memory. So I decided to stop
by after work and take some photos with my phone while I was around.

Side note I also went to Sunday School with Adnan's brother - or at least saw
him around the campus - did not know any of them personally however. My only
memory from the trial days is my parents telling me "See what happens when you
have a girlfriend!" (grew up in a similarly conservative household, personally
very liberal)

------
researcher88
I actively try to avoid 20/20 and Dateline crime mysteries. There are so many
of these and they are so engaging, and often without any resolution beyond a
"he said, she said". The only conclusion I can draw from them is that crime is
often incredibly random and irrational, and everyone has credibility problems,
real victims sometimes lie to exaggerate and the justice system is deeply
flawed.

But I feel that it's disaster porn; gripping us by appealing to the worst of
us.

I was excited for Serial until I realized what it is. I feel for the wrongly
convicted, if that's indeed what happened, but I'm not watching/listening to
be an activist against injustice. No, I'm just distracting myself without
learning anything by absorbing scintillating details and pondering irrelevant
mysteries.

~~~
kbenson
To be fair, Serial hasn't really taken a side on the matter, at least not yet.
It's really been more about figuring out as much as possible, and doing it in
an engaging way. Serial feels very much "about the story" to me.

As for just distracting yourself without learning anything, I feel you there,
but at the same time most of us do it in numerous other ways such as reading
fiction, or watching movies, so I don't feel for you _too_ much.

~~~
droopyEyelids
The point of it is, it's legitimate snuff for the masses. Same reason SVU is
on its 14th season. Noted psychologist Albert Ellis wrote a book on it in the
50's or 60's, when society's itch was mostly satisfied through gristly pulp
detective novels. The reader (or viewer, or listener) gets to indulge in
graphic death and horror, but also gets to maintain their view of themselves
through a narrative that allows them to think of themselves on the 'good guys'
side.

~~~
potatolicious
I actually think Serial is on the other side of the fence as SVU, Law & Order,
and pulp detective novels.

Personally I've had a great takeaway from the podcast, not because of the
sordid subject that's at the heart of it, but rather the amount of time and
care the creators have spent looking at not just the crime, but also at the
system and people that surround it.

Pop crime fiction teaches us a lot of things that Serial has gone to pains to
refute - that eyewitness testimony is at all reliable, that people can recall
mundane details of their lives at will, that a clear sequence of events is
even _possible_ to reconstruct, that the wrongly accused believe passionately
in their own innocence, so on and so forth.

Serial has taken the popular notion of interviewing persons of interest,
constructing a timeline, and catching people in brazen lies, and turned them
upside down to expose the much more complicated behavior of humans underneath,
and the fallibility of everything that these detective shows are based around.

The picture that Serial paints is markedly different from that of your typical
crime drama, and that is an important takeaway. I think characterizing it as
simply a gaudy way to "indulge in graphic death and horror" is overly cynical.
In any case it certainly doesn't belong in the same sentence as any of the
other crime fiction that portrays police work simplistically.

~~~
nooneelse
Indeed. In this era of jury pools being trained by forensic procedural shows
to want nice animations reconstructing everything, it is very good for us all
to hear how hard it can be to reconstruct the past. Even on things that seem
like they should be easily knowable, like "was there a pay phone near the Best
Buy or not?"

------
jklp
For some strange reason I thought this was part of Alex Blumberg (also from
This American Life)'s Gimlet Media - which he started in August this year, and
which he's documenting at [http://hearstartup.com](http://hearstartup.com).

Anyone know if the timing of Serial's debut was co-incidental, or if there's
something happening between the two ex-TIL producers that we don't know about?

~~~
cdcarter
I would believe coincidental, as Serial is underwritten by TAL, and to my
knowledge Koenig is still considered a producer for TAL.

------
username223
This seems to be one of a spate of recent articles, e.g. [1]. For a skeptical
take, see Marco Arment [2]. Then again, he could just be expressing sour
grapes because people with actual skill, money, and time are invading his
turf.

FWIW, I have listened to a lot of NPR via podcast for many years, and see a
podcast-only version of it as a natural step. At this point, the amateur
"three nerds and a microphone" stuff is background noise for when I can't
sleep.

[1] [http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/10/whats-behind-
th...](http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/10/whats-behind-the-great-
podcast-renaissance.html)

[2] [http://www.marco.org/2014/11/16/why-podcasts-are-suddenly-
ba...](http://www.marco.org/2014/11/16/why-podcasts-are-suddenly-back)

~~~
simonh
I don't detect any sour grapes. The only part of the narrative he has a
problem with is the supposed slump with 2010 being the dark ages of podcasting
which somehow needed saving from decline. As slow steady rise isn't dramatic,
so a troubled history for podcasting is invented to make it more interesting,
which is bull.

~~~
VLM
"the supposed slump with 2010 being the dark ages of podcasting which somehow
needed saving from decline"

The inability of any coherent narrative to form is evidence of a really big
market. If its too big for any individual to see all of it, it must be pretty
big.

For me 2010 is the early boom years of history podcasting. Mike Duncan's "The
History of Rome" which was really the history of the roman empire not some
sort of municipal thing. 2010 was a great year in podcasting, hardly a
"slump".

Edited to add, from memory, in 2010 the Wormwood mystery-horror series was in
its 3rd year, Lowell's solar clipper sci fi series had just finished its 4th
installment with the 5th on the way, and I remember heavy self advertisement
on the TWIT network about the new studio that would open in a couple months...
for a dead media it was pretty exciting at the time.

------
ckuehl
A quick plug: for those who enjoy Serial, there's an incredible amount of
high-quality discussion about it on the serialpodcast subreddit [1].

The very high level of engagement the show has with some listeners is
surprising. I don't think it's typical, but many posters talk about dedicating
hours to reading case documents, re-listening to episodes, doing independent
research, etc.

[1]
[https://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast](https://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast)

~~~
djb_hackernews
As a counter argument I'd say don't waste your time. It is this close -> || to
becoming a boston bomber situation with people making wild accusations and
speculating to their hearts content about all manner of peoples private lives
and those are the posts that get voted up.

~~~
mason240
It's hard to disagree when stuff like this, comparing the death of a high
schooler to the a conspiracy to assassinate JFK, is on the on the front page.

[http://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/2n7m7n/watchi...](http://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/2n7m7n/watching_jfk_last_night_i_thought_about_why_hae/)

------
armandososa
I love Serial. But I love more the idea that I live in a world where such a
show can exist and be successful.

------
gldnspud
I would be remiss if I didn't take this opportunity to plug Adam Curry and
John C. Dvorak's "No Agenda Show" podcast.

[http://www.noagendashow.com/](http://www.noagendashow.com/)

It's entering the eighth year, reaching its 700th show, and has been entirely
funded by producers (active listeners) throughout its history.

No ads. No native advertising.

In the morning!

------
mrcwinn
I _loved_ the original episode this series was born out of: the story of a
doctor in North Carolina who takes over the practice of a convicted murderer
[[http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-
archives/episode/492/t...](http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-
archives/episode/492/transcript)].

I have to say, though, I don't enjoy Serial very much. I'm the only person, it
seems. :-) Listening to a reporter (not an investigator) guess and gab about a
murder just seems like a waste of time. The constant teasers throughout each
episode (maybe he did it? but then, maybe he didn't? and maybe this happened,
but then maybe it didn't happen?) are infuriating.

This is to say nothing Sarah Koenig. She's obviously done fine work in her
career and is a big part of This American Life, and I'm happy to see any
podcast get some attention. I just don't enjoy the show, personally.

~~~
pkulak
I think this is less about one single podcast than it is about the entire
medium. Whether you or I enjoy Serial, it's a huge hit and it's turning a lot
of people on to the format.

------
jwilliams
If you're in the mood for a podcast recommendation, check out Welcome to Night
Vale [http://commonplacebooks.com/](http://commonplacebooks.com/) \-
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welcome_to_Night_Vale](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welcome_to_Night_Vale)

------
NatW
It's worth mentioning that This American Life (TAL) went all out promoting
'Serial' with on-air mentions, airing its first episode and using popups on
the TAL website e.g.: [http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-
archives](http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives).

------
kbenson
I think Patreon would work really well for this. I know they can support both
monthly an work-released based donation types (with per-month maximums), and
being able to pledge a certain amount per episode would make this easy and me
very happy that my money was going towards actually producing content.

------
kenjackson
I gave them $20. I'm curious how much money in donations Serial can get.

~~~
StavrosK
I'm thinking of donating because of how interesting I find it, but for me it
will all depend on whether the final resolution is definitive or not. If
there's no closure it's going to be the most frustrating experience since Lost
for me.

~~~
cdcarter
You should probably prepare for disappointment and frustration, then.

I made my gift, but primarily to help them break free of their underwriters,
and because the show is incredibly strong journalism and a great look at the
way criminal justice works. The details of the case, though incredibly
compelling, are a side show to how complicated the whole process is.

------
Animats
We've had "podcasting" for well over a decade, the iPod is dead, and this is
the first "breakout hit"?

~~~
smackfu
I think mainly because the top of the podcast charts is all existing public
radio shows, so they don't "count" as podcasts.

------
alanfalcon
I'd love some data behind the claim that this is podcasting's first breakout
hit, beyond the comparison to This American Life's slower initial growth in
the form. Is this a legitimate claim to fame, or sensationalism from the New
York Times from a writer who seems to be largely dismissive of podcasting in
general?

------
dankohn1
Serial has been an immensely satisfying listening experience. I now look
forward to Thursday mornings for it to come out.

~~~
bnzelener
+1 It's a good format. The honesty and genuine voice from This American Life -
and the episodes don't give you much resolution at the end. Just feels real.

------
wanderingstan
A friend and I are exploring some ideas and around next-generation podcasting
(and audio entertainment in general). Early prototype stage. There is a lot of
room for innovation, and the market is growing--as this article explains. If
you're in the SF area and interested in this area, drop me a line.

~~~
corobo
Unfortunately nowhere near SF (Middle of England, UK!) but am definitely
interested in what you're coming up with if you have any further info
anywhere?

------
pain_perdu
Would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this:
[http://www.crowdmurder.com](http://www.crowdmurder.com) \- Gamifying the
investigation of the case from the Serial Podcast.

"Use Real Court Evidence to Solve the Murder of Hae Min Lee Access Courtroom
Audio, Build Time-lines, Maps & Suspect Bios. Team up with fans of the Serial
Podcast from around the world to help solve a murder.

Every Court Document and Recording We're Publishing Every Piece of Publicly-
Available Evidence from Adnan's Trial and building powerful annotation tools"

------
thinkr
Wanted to add some other ones I did not see suggested:

Freakonomics Radio - by the authors of the book of the same name

Travel with Rick Steves - podcast by famous travel guide Rick Steves

Dinner Part Download - nice way to learn about interesting facts/random
trivia/pop-culture regarding all sorts of subjects which can make for
interesting conversation at your next social gathering

edit: meant to post this as a response to the question asking about other
podcasts

------
supercoder
I know this will get me downvoted but I can't understand the fascination with
Serial. Overall I found it quite a boring listen. Too many side paths that
amount to not much at all, feel like it could have done with a harsh edit.

But it's production qualities are high quality and so anything that leads
people to create more content at a similar level the better !

~~~
klenwell
"I can't understand the fascination with Serial."

Think JFK assassination for the Reddit generation. I know I'm hooked.

~~~
ssully
I am sorry but that is an awful comparison. Nothing about the two can be
compared except the occurance of death. Also there is no conspiracy in Serial.

------
kosmopolska
Here in Sweden, the last episode of Filip & Fredriks Podcast[1] was recorded
in front of a 16 592 people audience this past June.

To be fair they had quite the career on television before that, but podcasting
seems to have become a thing here.

[1] [http://www.filipandfredrik.com](http://www.filipandfredrik.com)

------
niix
I'm absolutely in love with this podcast. I randomly stumbled upon it look for
something else to listen to while waiting on new episodes of "Stuff You Should
Know".

The story is so engaging. Congrats to Sarah and the team on their success!

------
palidanx
In addition to serial, I began listening to
[http://www.wnyc.org/shows/deathsexmoney/](http://www.wnyc.org/shows/deathsexmoney/)
which reminds me of a more poignant Terry Gross.

------
petercooper
Wasn't the Ricky Gervais Show really podcasting's first breakout hit? It got a
Guinness World Record and ended up becoming a TV show in both the UK and US.

~~~
schneider_sh
I think another early podcasting success was Bill Simmons from ESPN. In my
opinion, his podcasting success helped build his brand even further and
allowed him to launch Grantland.

A more recent podcast to big deals success is Men in Blazers. The two soccer
commentators spun their podcast into a 10pm Monday show on NBCSN.

I think that sports podcasting in general is quite a mature format. Though,
this probably isn't all too surprising as it is basically a more dedicated
form of sports radio.

~~~
cmdrfred
What about Adam Carolla? He is the current record holder.

------
cmdrfred
If anyone here hasn't listened to The Bugle podcast (I've been a Bugler since
the second episode) you are missing out on the world.

------
hartror
This popped up while I am listening to Serial. But I am a bit of a podcasting
junkie so not surprising.

------
spacecowboy_lon
First breakout hit not so sure I heard nightvale name checked on the bus 3
months ago.

