
Samsung is imploding in China - carlchenet
http://uk.businessinsider.com/samsung-china-sales-q1-apple-xiaomi-idc-plummet-2015-5
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castell
Samsung smartphone/tablet hardware is fine, but their Android "support" is a
joke. No Android updates after a few weeks. Samsung still sells some Android
2.3.x and 4.1.x devices and most of their devices never received the 2.3->4
and 4->5 update. Some of their flagship devices are also a bit overpriced.
They used to offer a replaceable battery and an SD-card slot, but its gone in
their latest flagship S6 Edge as well.

Many early Samsung smartphone/tablet customers turn away after their
experiences. LG, HTC, Sony, Lenovo and many little known Chinese products are
cheaper and usually better nowadays.

Samsung TVs already use Bada/Tizen OS, and Samsung announced that their S5
flagship phone would be released also with Tizen. The question is why Samsung
hasn't switched to Tizen yet?
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tizen](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tizen) ,
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bada](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bada)

~~~
mark_l_watson
I have bought my two Samsung phones through Verizon because they have the best
coverage in the mountains where I live.

Verizon slowly but surely seems to roll out updates.

Unless you have an unlocked phone, your carrier determines if/when updates
happen, right?

~~~
soylentcola
I think it depends on the device. I'd wager that most carrier-branded handset
variants are indeed set up to only allow updates pushed by the carrier but I'm
not sure that applies to everything. I believe iOS updates can still be
initiated by the user. I'm not experienced with iOS on Verizon so I don't know
if they managed to screw that up too but as far as I know, Apple has held firm
on that front.

I don't use Verizon but friends who do tend to complain that they are often
stuck waiting for updates. Even when the unbranded version of a handset has
updates available, there is no easy way to install them on a Verizon phone due
to locked bootloaders and such. If the VZW variant has different hardware,
then even a standard factory image won't do you any good since they will be
built for the "everyone else" version.

I really do feel for people whose only choice is Verizon. At least with AT&T
you can usually just buy the standard hardware and pop in your SIM to avoid
carrier obstructionism. With VZW, they really get you by the short hairs.

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danmaz74
So much for all those who said that Android is "only Samsung". In China there
is an explosion of local brands which sell Android, and they're eroding
Samsung in a still booming market. That's the fact.

~~~
megablast
When people said it, it was true. Even now Samsung make the majority of money
in the Android world.

~~~
danmaz74
Yes, but the argument IIRC was that Samsung had attained an unassailable
position, so Android being open wasn't really making any difference.

Instead, in the latest ads that came to my mailbox (snail mail in Italy), I
was struck by the fact that most of the advertised phones were from Chinese
brands I had never heard of before...

~~~
_nedR
Are the brands you are referring to, by any chance Xiaomi and Huawei?

Here in India at least, these Chinese brands along with Lenovo have pretty
much become household names in respect to mobile phones.

And they do make good, solid, innovative products at half the cost of their
Korean counterparts. From an Indian perspective, It is no surprise that
Samsung is bleeding to these (at least in the low and mid segments).

What is truly amazing to me is the pace with which the reputation of these
mobile companies were built. It took years and even decades for the Koreans
(Samsung and LG in electronics, and Hyundai in cars) to be taken in the same
respect as the Japanese. The trust and reputation of the chinese brands (in
the mobile space at least) were built almost overnight (and sooner in cases
like OnePlus). There is certainly a Tom Sawyer effect in play with use of
marketing tactics such as invite-only and flash sales.

~~~
castell
The OnePlus invite-only marketing tactics was very successful, from what I
heard. Even their reputation seem to be good.

Though 5.5" is very big. Most chinese built smartphones are 5" or bigger.

There are only three high end flagship smartphones that are below 5" (ca.
4.5"): Apple iPhone6, Sony Xperia Z3 Compact and Samsung Alpha.

~~~
tw04
Their reputation is good because they spam the internet as part of their
marketing ploy. They've got very real, and very serious touchscreen issues
that basically every phone will suffer from at some point.

And they either don't know how to fix it, or know how to fix it and aren't
willing to spend the money to do so. Do a google search of "oneplus
touchscreen issue" and let the light of reality shine on your head.

~~~
castell
Good to know. A workmate owns one.

I don't get the huge screen size trend anyway. About 4.5" (iPhone, Samsung
Alpha, Sony XPeria Z3 Compact, etc.) is already the physical limit to fit
comfortable in many pockets and is certainly big enough. Tell that to most
manufactures who produce the mass of 5.5" phones.

~~~
tw04
Z3c is by far the best phone I've ever owned. I ended up returning it,
however, because Sony's version of android sucks. I want a pure android
experience (or close to it), and somewhat quick updates. A Z3c with stock
android is literally my dream phone. Perfect size, waterproof, great camera,
just an all around awesome phone (other than Sony's poor software).

------
smegel
Koreans are also extremely image conscious and love parading around with
prestigious international luxury brands - possibly even more so than the
Chinese. They are also extremely proud of Korea as a nation and tend to favor
Korean brands in everything other than luxury prestige goods. And Samsung is
basically their national icon.

So I imagine the average Korean must be quite in conflict when buying a
smartphone - the recognized international symbol of smartphone prestige and
luxury (the iPhone) vs the nationalistic Galaxy. But given their booming
economy, I guess many just buy both...

~~~
na85
The Samsung-branded Android is horrible, though.

I really think Google's permissiveness in allowing vendors to bundle their
crapware really kills any prestige the brand might have had. iOS really isn't
anything special, but when compared to the literal dogshit that Samsung puts
on their phones, it's hard not to make a favourable comparison in favour of
Apple's operating system.

I used to think Android had bad performance until I got my first Nexus-series
device, at which point I realized that "Vanilla Android" is actually a pretty
good OS. It's bothersome that seemingly nobody's out there making this point.

Samsung's insistence on bundling crapware is killing Android.

~~~
slowmotiony
Google isn't exactly setting a high standard with their buggy OS updates and
crappy apps like hangouts.

~~~
Mikeb85
> crappy apps like hangouts.

What's wrong with Hangouts? I quite like having an all-in-one text message +
internet message + phone and video call app that I can use from my phone and
computer web browser seamlessly...

~~~
72deluxe
I prefer NOT to have it take over SMS messaging because I want to know that
the person will receive the message. If I wanted to get in touch with you,
there is a conscious decision as to whether I instant message you, ring you,
video call you, send an SMS, visit you in person or send you a letter. This
shouldn't be removed or hidden - the reliability of the transport medium is
important!

Half of my contacts never get messages from me in Hangouts. This makes it
unreliable, and therefore useless.

Additionally, if I video call someone (eg my wife sat the other side of the
room), Hangouts informs me that she is not available for a video call. But she
has zero notifications or alerts or ringing or ANYTHING.

The inability to see if someone is online/offline also makes it useless. If I
am having a conversation with someone sat next to me, I would like to know if
they're sat next to me else I'll be talking to a wall. Chatting with people on
Hangouts is like talking to a wall.

It truly is bad.

EDIT: I noticed the INSTANT downvote after writing this. Are you disagreeing
with me on Hangouts or something? Or are you saying that I made all of this up
or something? Hangouts does not work for me, full stop. I have used Android
since 1.5 and Talk was far superior. The lack of proper UI (screen-width
listview for contacts????) and behaviour on Hangouts (I am using a tablet)
does not encourage decent applications. Compare the quality of Hangouts to
GMail on a tablet for reference.

~~~
vilmosi
The problem is you don't even try to make hangouts work for you. You complain
that you can't even choose between SMS and instant chat, yet hangouts offers
that effortlessly. And you ca see someone online/offline, you can even see
exactly the last time they opened the app.

It's fine to not like Hangouts, but your complaints are just plain false.

~~~
threeseed
No. The more reasonable explanation is that the OP is experiencing issues that
don't manifest in your situation. It doesn't mean his complaints are
necessarily false.

You seem to act like software never has bugs.

~~~
vilmosi
>> You seem to act like software never has bugs.

So every piece of software ever made sucks?

The quality of hangouts shouldn't be decided on anecdotal bug findings.

~~~
oldmanjay
you should have told him he's using it wrong

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SCdF
Apple taking 93% of all the profits in the smartphone industry is terrifying.

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sureshv
I'm intrigued by the 42%+ marked as 'Other'?

~~~
cubancigar11
That would be Xiaomi and other local chinese brands.

~~~
getsat
Probably also HTC and other "also ran" companies.

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codyZ
I slowly saw all of my Samsung-fan co-workers/partners transition to iPhones
or atleast other Androids during my 2 year stay in Beijing. Ancedotal evidence
at best but the quality of their phones and the software was subpar. I've had
my Galaxy S2 for four years and only had to replace it last week. But their
Samsung phones seemed extremely glitchy, would freeze at the most
inappropriate times and have random battery issues.

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anthony_romeo
Interesting. When I visited China last year, Samsung was the brand of phone I
saw most often (which was apparently true given the data in this article). Yet
when your competitors offer phones nearly as reliable and feature-full at half
the price, it's no surprise there's a shift happening. Though the increase in
Apple suggests that this is not only a concern of price (the price of high-end
Samsung phones were comparable to the price of iPhones).

Maybe it's a matter of Samsung products being somewhere in the middle. Apple's
phones _feel_ like they have better construction, and a greater level of
prestige associated with them. Xiaomi's phones, again, have a solid
construction and decent features (in some instances, more features) at a
vastly lower price point than Samsung's phones. Maybe Samsung's phones right
now don't satisfy the wants of either camp, and are hurting now as a result?

Edit: Not to mention Apple finally competing on phone size.

~~~
userbinator
_When I visited China last year, Samsung was the brand of phone I saw most
often_

I bet most of those were not _real_ Samsungs, but generic clones with the
Samsung name on them.

~~~
inimino
Do you have a source for this, or are you just guessing?

Samsung phones are popular in China from the mid-market to the high end, and
I've never seen or heard of a fake Samsung. (Fake iPhones, yes.)

~~~
userbinator
I've seen plenty of fake Samsung phones... the majority of them come out of
the factory as unbranded generic Androids based on the MTK platform and look
just like the Galaxy series; the vendor will ask if you want the Samsung logo
on it (at no extra cost) when you buy one, and apply it then.

~~~
inimino
I wasn't aware of that, thanks.

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ams6110
_In Apple 's most recent earnings call, CEO Tim Cook used the term "switchers"
five times (a record!), and indicated that Apple is targeting further down the
market — into traditional Android territory — than it ever has before._

Interesting, as this is something that is new to Apple. They've always been
content to live at the top end of the market, selling quality (but expensive
and high-margin) hardware. Are they risking their position as a status symbol
of sorts? Once I'm no longer making a fashion statement by owning an iPhone,
why would I pay a premium for one?

~~~
rayiner
At least in the U.S. an iPhone is a "status symbol" in the same way as Olive
Garden is "fine dining." It's marketed as the premium option, but still priced
such that most people can afford it.

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__Joker
So much for the small hand of Asians making it difficult to work with bigger
device argument, if we agree with this article's assumption that bigger iphone
model has been appealing to Chinese market.

~~~
diminish
I also read 3.5" iPhone was the perfect size ergonomic for Asian hands but
Apple gave up years of ergonomic study in favor of larger screens if earlier
some people were right.

The true victim of phablets will be iPad and tablets IMHO.

~~~
bane
> but Apple gave up years of ergonomic study in favor of larger screens if
> earlier some people were right.

It turns out Apple was optimizing for the wrong ergonomics. People want it to
be more comfortable to see the screen, not use one hand. Huge phone have been
the norm in Asia for years before they showed up in the West. The largest
models available today still aren't available in the U.S.

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xnull2guest
Does anyone have an inside scoop as to whether there are political causes,
given the rising tension between China and South Korea?

~~~
notatoad
It seems like the explanation is pretty simple - Samsung's competitors are
delivering an extremely similar product for half the price. As these Chinese
OEMs expand into other markets, Samsung is going to see this same trend happen
worldwide. Apple takes the high-end, image-conscious market segment, and
huawei and xaomi take the low end, and there isn't a whole lot of room for a
high-price low-prestige product.

~~~
xnull2guest
Okay, good to know it's just normal market dynamics.

Thanks.

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brazzy
> This explosive growth — at Samsung's expense — is due to the breakout
> success of the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus. The larger size of the smartphone made
> it far more appealing, especially in Asian markets, and helped Apple
> generate the most profitable quarter of any company ever.

Uhhh... Because Samsung doesn't have any phablets or 5 inch phones???

that explanation is so lame it makes the whole article look sketchy.

~~~
saurik
I think the argument is that people were only willing to use the Android
device because it had the large screen they wanted: as soon as Apple entered
that corner of the market, so now, "with a large-screened iOS device
available, consumers have turned away in huge numbers from high-end Android
manufacturers like Samsung, with devastating results".

~~~
geomark
I observed a bit of that effect here in Thailand. Apple is considered more
prestigious by many Thais who are willing to spend a month's pay to buy an
iphone. But many were quick to convert to Samsung when larger screens came out
- the little iphone looked like a toy next to the big screen Samsungs so they
handed down their little iPhones to younger siblings. Apple seemed silly to
insist that people didn't want bigger screens. Now that they finally caved to
the demand they are clawing back some market share from Samsung. And the
Xiaomi Mi4 is coming to Thailand soon so Samsung is going to take another hit.

