

People's happiness at work usually dips mid career - lmg643
http://bps-research-digest.blogspot.com/2014/07/peoples-happiness-at-work-usually-dips.html

======
ChuckFrank
These articles drive me nuts. Every year they say the same thing. 20 year olds
feel this, 30 something experience that.

What they don't explain is that there are fundamental shifts happening with
regards to work, age, education, income, etc.

Those changing statistics are everywhere. People are having children later,
people are having more jobs throughout their lifetime. Tenured jobs are being
eliminated.

So for me, the now is so very different from what it was that I was moving
towards. Most all my jobs have been contract based / project based /
entrepreneurial and start up based. My peers who have excelled have done so in
the civil service and in the creative industries, but not in more traditional
areas such as finance, business, law and medicine. Why? Because there is a
boat load of dead wood up ahead of them. What used to be tiny steps
professionally for people in their twenties are coming to people later and
later in life.

Work is changing. Work expectations are changing.

But here's the thing, it's always been changing. It changed during the Wars,
when millions of people died. It changed in the post-war period. And it's been
changing ever since.

Work is bad in your 30s for the reasons that this article outlines, but for
many it's worse now than it has been for several generations. But it's clearly
better than it was 100 years ago.

All I ask is that culturally we have those expectations in line with what it
actually happening. For many people, highly trained, highly skilled, and
highly educated, it's a tougher row than it has been for a while. Sure there
are winners, but the bread and butter, working and middle class jobs have been
crushed.

And I believe it's going to get harder and harder. For this I hope that our
kids don't have to read this articles about how things are for people in their
20s, 30s, 40s and 50s. Because for one thing, it's going to be so very
different.

I know people who say to their kids that they've got it easy. I'm telling the
kids that I know that they've got it hard. We are over the high point in terms
of employment and per capita income. And if we don't make some radical
adjustments to our economic distribution policies, it's going to get worse.

Besides, isn't 40 the new 30. (Or was that 50?)

ps. I'm currently looking for better work opportunities myself and I'm in my
40s.

~~~
ekanes
> I know people who say to their kids that they've got it easy. I'm telling
> the kids that I know that they've got it hard.

You might be right, but that advice may not be helpful or actionable. It might
be better to say their world is different, but there are all kinds of
opportunities in it. In almost any situation in life (work, marriage, prison,
anything) it's almost NEVER the right influence/move to remove or reduce
_hope_.

~~~
ChuckFrank
Your point is well taken. I think the important thing is to readjust
expectations to a more likely/reasonable outcome. Aiming for the stars is
great, but crashing to the ground, which is the likely outcome, isn't.
Instead, aiming for the moon and hitting it is pretty awesome considering.

I hope I don't remove or reduce hope, but instead adjust their sights better -
with actionable advice.

------
themartorana
I think "in their remaining tenure" is a key phrase here. For me, 36 now, even
owning my own profitable company and making neat software for a living can
suffer downward pressure, because I'm starting to deal with feelings that I
should be _much_ further along by now - money wise, job wise, stability wise.

It's very mental - I should be the happiest kid on the block, but this is when
you start to look back at time wasted, and wonder if your incredibly lofty
goals will ever come to fruition.

Everyone thinks they're meant for greatness - so few reach it, and right
around now is when we start admitting to ourselves that we may not be all that
extraordinary.

Hopefully, I'll be able to get past all of these mental roadblocks before my
50s!

~~~
Snhr
I'm 21 now trying to plan out my life and this is one of the major things for
me. What do I want to do in life that is important to me and can I accomplish
this within the timeframe I have. I don't have a second chance so I don't want
to spend time doing something that I'll lose interest in, or end up being
stagnant in some job that I can barely stand. I'd rather do all that worrying
now then when it could mean finishing something on time. At least now I can
plan accordingly (do this before I'm x years old) to how much time I've
wasted, instead of wasting time and not accomplishing a part of it before I
need to.

Also trying to figure out how "great" I am, or what I am "great" at. So I'm
not disappointed at myself . I've already gone through that once on several
levels when I went from being an old teenager to a young adult. One time is
enough, and I bet it's so much worse when you're at the point where you can't
accomplish the goal because you're not good enough (or even just questioning
if its feasible, that has to drop you farther than where you should be and end
up doing worse because of it.)

Or I may be just wasting time now and I should just jump in. I don't know,
maybe I'll figure that out. I don't need much in life, just to feel like I've
done the best that I can at whatever I end up choosing. Not even in an
idealistic way really, I want to give back what people have given to me
(knowledge, ideas, materialistic things if any) so at most I don't leave the
world knowing that I did less than nothing. If I leave doing more than I have
taken then I can be happy in the fact that I've made the world a little bit
better. Not a lot but it wasn't a waste being alive.

Maybe I should just get a job.

~~~
walterbell
Reading material:

1) You and Your Research, by Richard Hamming

[http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/YouAndYourResearch.html](http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/YouAndYourResearch.html)

\---

"There's another trait on the side which I want to talk about; that trait is
ambiguity. It took me a while to discover its importance. Most people like to
believe something is or is not true. Great scientists tolerate ambiguity very
well. They believe the theory enough to go ahead; they doubt it enough to
notice the errors and faults so they can step forward and create the new
replacement theory. If you believe too much you'll never notice the flaws; if
you doubt too much you won't get started. It requires a lovely balance. But
most great scientists are well aware of why their theories are true and they
are also well aware of some slight misfits which don't quite fit and they
don't forget it. "

\---

2) By definition, what "you" are uniquely good at cannot be represented by
logic, mathematics or reason. Otherwise, "you" could be duplicated, cloned,
automated. The unique properties of you exist at the boundary of possibility,
in the space historically occupied by philosophy/magic/religion, now
supplemented by scientific research and metaphysics. A good starting point is
understanding the history of the number zero. See also Heinz von Foerster on
the subject of ethics and free will,
[http://web.stanford.edu/group/SHR/4-2/text/foerster.html](http://web.stanford.edu/group/SHR/4-2/text/foerster.html)

\---

"Only those questions that are in principle undecidable, we can decide.

Why?

Simply because the decidable questions are already decided by the choice of
the framework in which they are asked, and by the choice of rules of how to
connect what we call "the question" with what we may take for an "answer." In
some cases it may go fast, in others it may take a long, long time, but
ultimately we will arrive, after a sequence of compelling logical steps, at an
irrefutable answer: a definite Yes, or a definite No.

But we are under no compulsion, not even under that of logic, when we decide
upon in principle undecidable questions. There is no external necessity that
forces us to answer such questions one way or another. We are free! The
complement to necessity is not chance, it is choice! We can choose who we wish
to become when we have decided on in principle undecidable questions.

This is the good news, American journalists would say. Now comes the bad news.

With this freedom of choice we are now responsible for whatever we choose! For
some this freedom of choice is a gift from heaven. For others such
responsibility is an unbearable burden: How can one escape it? How can one
avoid it? How can one pass it on to somebody else?"

\---

3) Tactical Office Politics

[http://www.manager-
tools.com/2013/04/politics-101-chapter-3-...](http://www.manager-
tools.com/2013/04/politics-101-chapter-3-myth-just-world-part-1)

[http://www.manager-
tools.com/2013/05/politics-101-chapter-3-...](http://www.manager-
tools.com/2013/05/politics-101-chapter-3-myth-just-world-part-2)

\---

"This guidance probably should have been Chapter 1 of our Politics 101 series.
It’s foundational. It’s a HUGE problem for many professionals, particularly
young – and dare we say it, naïve – professionals. So many young people say,
“I don’t ‘play politics.’” The more savvy folks around them think, that’s
good, because this isn’t a ‘game’ you can ‘play.’ "

\---

4) The biographical stories in Plutarch's Lives of "Noble Grecians and Romans"
were preserved for several centuries by people who believed those lives were
memorable, back when books were non-trivial to produce. These lessons cross
platforms, time and space.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutarch%27s_Lives](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutarch%27s_Lives)

ePub/Kindle:
[http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/p/plutarch/lives/](http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/p/plutarch/lives/)

~~~
Snhr
I've only read the first link so far, I've had a bit to do today but I
appreciate all these links. Already learned a ton so far and this is almost
exactly the sort of material I was looking for. Just wanted to say thanks
before this falls into obscurity and/or you forget about it so you know your
time was not wasted.

------
declan
This was a survey of 771 Australians, almost all men, working in
construction[1]. Also "coworker support" is a big factor[2], the authors
concluded.

It's entirely unclear to me whether the results have any applicability to the
types of technology jobs that the largely (I speculate) Silicon Valley HN
audience holds.

For one, software engineering isn't exactly hard physical labor, where getting
a promotion to foreman in your 40s may mean a lot less hauling concrete.
Second, women are present in greater numbers in white-collar jobs than in
construction. Third, relationships with your coworkers are likely going to be
different in an office environment. Fourth, there may be cultural differences
between Australian construction workers and the rest of the world, even U.S.
construction workers. Fifth, there's likely not the same (alleged, at least)
age discrimination in construction, where you gain more skills over time and
aren't expected to know the latest inane web
JSRubyPythonGolangMartiniNodeDjangoErlangLuaRailsExpressConnectHaskellRestMVCController
framework du jour.

So in other words the NYMag.com article this HN thread links to could have
been written exactly the opposite way -- by concluding that the study's
results have no proven applicability except to, well, Australian male
construction workers.

[1] [http://bps-research-digest.blogspot.com/2014/07/peoples-
happ...](http://bps-research-digest.blogspot.com/2014/07/peoples-happiness-at-
work-usually-dips.html) [2]
[http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=search.displayRecord&id=...](http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=search.displayRecord&id=23043BB8-C419-8E86-D71E-E34F2AAFC6D1&resultID=1&page=1&dbTab=pa&search=true)

------
jmspring
Live in the moment. Save. If work isn't fulfilling, move on to the next thing.
That said, keep on top of the skills you deem important for your next thing or
future direction.

------
swalsh
Is the median age of HN aging with the site?

~~~
bzalasky
That's an interesting question. If it is, where are all the kids? Thinking
about that reminded me of 'Losing My Edge' by LCD Soundsystem...
[http://rock.rapgenius.com/Lcd-soundsystem-losing-my-edge-
lyr...](http://rock.rapgenius.com/Lcd-soundsystem-losing-my-edge-lyrics)

------
michaelochurch
31\. Howdy.

In your early 20s, you're like a girl in college. It's very easy to get
"activity" (for college girls, sex; for young nerds, jobs with minor but
impressive perks) but it's really hard to find respect. (I stopped being
indignant about gender disparities in dating when I realized that, in terms of
getting _respect_ , it was equally hard for men and women.)

Your late 20s is when you learn that most employers-- and especially the
"prestigious" ones-- never much respected you. You may have been right that
you had the right idea or were the smartest one in the room (whilst ignored).
It didn't matter. You didn't have a chance. That enlightenment can be a bit
painful.

This "mid-career blues" period seems to be the stretch in which a person has
learned a few things about what people really are when there's enough at
stake, but before having enough life experience (or, for the apolitical or
fortunate who are able to focus on the work more than the politics, domain
mastery) to avoid the obvious pitfalls, deal with obnoxious personalities, and
still play the game to a win. The 27-40 period seems to be when people learn
their hardest lessons-- first firing or layoff, first non-paying client, first
lawsuit, first truly unethical employer. (My friend started consulting and is
dealing with his first non-paying client.)

The problem, in the US, is that we're practically not allowed to talk about
what is really going on. The fact that I've been open with some rather vanilla
details of my Google experience has made me into some sort of +3-sigma outlier
"bad-mouther". We live in this culture where we're supposed to pretend that
these negative experiences just don't happen. Everyone pretends to be
"crushing it" and getting $150,000 signing bonuses and all that bullshit. The
result is that the painful experiences of that mid-career spell become
isolating, because people are shamed into silence. And that's a fucking crime.

------
patmcguire
Has anyone done sentiment analysis on HN comments by day of the week? Seen a
lot of "work's a bummer" articles on Thursdays.

------
quakershake
I think tech "work place suck" can also come from experience. Things are no
longer shiny, unexplored, or hacky. Just old hat stuff that needs to get done
and not that interesting. And sometimes you just get tired of the FOTM
languages that come out. It's a rat race that causes burnout.

------
jameshart
30s is 'mid-life'? and 'mid-career'? If you plan to retire at 50 and die at
70, maybe...

~~~
poopsintub
I don't plan to retire at 50, but dying at 70 is somewhat realistic. 30's is
definitely not mid-career though.

------
emperorcezar
The situation about having young children and being in a time crunch couldn't
be more right.

There's nothing like walking out the door to "Daddy, I miss you!".

The you feel bad for laying the long day on your spouse so you can "crush it".

------
dang
Url changed from [http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2014/07/work-is-the-worst-
when-...](http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2014/07/work-is-the-worst-when-youre-
in-your-30s.html), which points to this.

------
acconrad
This scares me so much. I'm 28 and I'm upset that I haven't done anything
notable yet. I just haven't found my magnum opus yet, and I don't know how to.

~~~
noonespecial
_" Don’t feel guilty if you don’t know what you want to do with your life… The
most interesting people I know didn’t know at 22 what they wanted to do with
their lives, some of the most interesting 40 year olds I know still don’t."_

~~~
AznHisoka
I rather be rich than interesting, to be honest...

------
edpichler
This is happening to me and I have no children. I just think I'm not
surrounded by the right people and I'm not also in the right environment.

------
photorized
You start to value time more than anything.

------
ChrisAntaki
You define your own life.

