
Technician keeps computer made in 1959 still humming along - turrini
http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ201907280007.html
======
cosmodisk
While not even close to what this guy does,I do run my IBM thinkpad every now
and then,which is probably about 20 years old.I reinstalled Linux recently and
it just works..The keyboard is still lightyears better than most of that crap
one could find in most of today's laptops.. What the guy does with the
computer is amazing and I'm really glad the management allow him to carry on
with it.

~~~
Aperocky
It's a lot easier to have better keyboard when space and weight is not a
concern.

~~~
TeMPOraL
It's not like the parts have become _bigger_ over the decades. With today's
tech, you could easily make a laptop with a quality keyboard, with a form
factor reminiscent of those old ones, packed full with modern hardware at
fraction of the weight... that is, if manufacturers weren't optimizing for
vanity metrics at the expense of utility.

~~~
baroffoos
Because people care less about how nice the keyboard is and more about how
light it is which is a valid concern when you carry the thing around with you
everywhere. The keyboard I have plugged in to my laptop weighs as much as the
laptop itself.

------
userbinator
It's a relay-based computer. Basically as long as relays continue to be made
(which is probably close to _forever_ ), it can still be serviced. Somewhat
newer but still old computers using custom ICs that stopped being made long
ago would not have as good a chance of survival, and vacuum tubes are also
relatively rare. But relays are still being made, and people still build relay
computers for fun, as a quick search of the Internet will show; this is one of
the more memorable ones:
[http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~harry/Relay/](http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~harry/Relay/)

There's a similar analogy to this in the automotive world, where early cars
were simple and one could easily service and maintain them, even fabricating
new parts as necessary; at the same time, they're nowhere near as efficient as
modern equivalents.

~~~
Animats
_It 's a relay-based computer. Basically as long as relays continue to be made
(which is probably close to forever), it can still be serviced._

Yes. And even then, the relays can be repaired. The NYC subway system has a
shop that refurbishes the relays of their signaling system.

I restore old Teletype machines. The ones from the 1920s and 1930s are the
easiest to restore. They're mostly all steel and cast iron. Once you clean,
oil, and adjust them, they usually work, unless the machine was seriously
damaged. I have five running Teletype machines.

The post-WWII machines are harder, but still repairable. The ones from the
1960s and 1970s are really hard, and some of the plastic parts have to be
fabricated. The last Teletype, the Teletype Model 40 (1979-1984) appears to be
hopeless. The print chain deteriorates over time, and making a new print
chain, with all the little character slugs, would be a huge job.

Restoring current electronics, with SOIC chips, will be hopeless after the ICs
wear out.

------
Animats
I wonder how much time the Living Computer Museum has left. That was a Paul
Allen thing, keeping old computers alive. Unless they find a new sugar daddy,
that will probably decline.

Museums that keep old machines working need a large operating budget. The
Smithsonian used to keep all their clocks wound and running, their piece of
the ENIAC was powered on and counted up, and the Atlas Missile Guidance
Computer was run regularly. None of those run any more.

~~~
ilaksh
Maybe with good emulation and VR we can preserve them digitally.

~~~
noobermin
In some sense perhaps but part of it probably is the maintenance of the
physical computers.

------
crabl
If you ever find yourself in Mountain View on a Saturday around 11AM, I highly
recommend taking in the IBM 1401 demo that happens at the Computer History
Museum: singlehandedly one of the coolest things I’ve experienced. Having the
opportunity to not only see the machines in action, but to speak with the
engineers who originally used them in their work was such a treat.

~~~
rurounijones
On a similar note for anyone who might find themselves in the UK the "National
Museum of Computing" in the grounds of Bletchley Park is also a great visit
[https://www.tnmoc.org/](https://www.tnmoc.org/) , with the guided tour
especially.

------
jdsully
Its one of the reasons I wrote a port of my database for my IMSAI 8080 [1].
You only think you know a machine until you try to use it. From experience I
can say emulators are just not faithful to the actual experience of the
physical hardware. They are too fast and too perfect.

The other nice thing about these old machines is you can understand the whole
thing. You get a better idea of what is fundamental and what is just fashion.

[1]
[https://github.com/JohnSully/KeyDB_Z80](https://github.com/JohnSully/KeyDB_Z80)

~~~
HillaryBriss
> They are too fast and too perfect.

IDK. The android emulators I run on my Mac sure don't seem perfect. For one
thing, scrolling a RecyclerView up and down using the mouse doesn't always
work right. Gesture detection seems to lag or miss events sometimes. Working
with a physical android device is often more stable and "solid" IME.

OTOH android emulators do seem pretty fast.

~~~
jdsully
At this vintage of machine we're talking about things like pulling individual
RAM chips which have gone bad, and hardware that is just too slow to even keep
up with 9600 baud datastreams - despite the fact you wrote it all in assembly
and hand optimized it.

Not to mention the fun of playing with front panel switches. I built an
emulator for one long before I acquired my IMSAI. They did not behave at all
how I expected. Even more interesting the front panels are not synchronous on
these "hobby" machines from the 70s but instead are timed by RC circuits that
are supposed to be "close enough" to the CPUs clock.

Not all of these problems are from age (although that has an effect), the
hardware was pretty flaky even when new.

~~~
noobermin
> Even more interesting the front panels are not synchronous on these "hobby"
> machines from the 70s but instead are timed by RC circuits that are supposed
> to be "close enough" to the CPUs clock.

That is by far one of the most curious things I've ever read on Hacker News.

------
jedberg
A friend of mine used to get paid a very senior engineer salary to maintain an
old VAX system. The system ran a trading algorithm that made about $1M a day,
so they figured it was worth keeping him around to do almost nothing at all,
other than make sure that thing ran during trading hours.

~~~
ambicapter
Fun implication being there exists a trading strategy that consistently make
$1M a day for 40+ years (I guess what isn't mentioned is how much capital was
backing up that strategy)?

~~~
matthewwiese
On a VAX no less! Can't imagine there's an HFT arbitrage opportunity for such
"slow" tech.

~~~
TheOtherHobbes
What are the odds the strategy only works _because_ it runs on a VAX?

~~~
rbanffy
Close to zero.

------
davesmith1983
“If the computer does not work, it will become a mere ornament,”

I own some old kit that I like to keep working mainly some Amiga and Atari ST
machines and he's 100% right. Unless people see what they are doing they
literally assume they are some sort of keyboard.

~~~
walshemj
I recall being told that when I worked for British Telecom they caught some
cleaners stealing just the what they where thought where computers but where
in fact just the key boards :-)

Probably in Manchester as that was a bit of a thing up there -Later on I
helped refit an office for the third time after they had been cleaned out
twice.

~~~
davesmith1983
We have some cleaners come in and they always constantly rearrange the
keyboard, desk monitors etc. Which normally causes a few groans in the morning
as everything has been moved. One guy was having a moan about it and I said
"You know the women that clean this probably have never used a computer other
than maybe their phone?".

~~~
_underfl0w_
Yikes. Not the kind of thing I'd go repeating there, friend. Your entitlement
is showing. Your assumptions: \- The cleaners must be women \- The cleaners
must have a quality of life so low they've never used a desktop \- The
cleaners aren't you and are therefore ignorant in some way

Plus, if they really do meet that second qualification, disparaging them for
it only makes you look _even worse_.

I would encourage you to seek out somebody who does meet those qualifications.
You might learn something.

~~~
davesmith1983
No not at all. I have seen the cleaners and have spoken to them and they are
clearly women. One of them told me that she has no idea what we do, what the
computers are used for and has never used a desktop pc. I doubt she is unique
among her peers.

Quite a lot of people that do "Blue Collar" jobs that are in their 50s and 60s
probably don't have to interact with a computer that often (I know my father
doesn't). If they do it is normally through a kiosk of some sort or they are
using their phone.

I was actually adjusting my coworkers expectations. He is younger than me and
the thought hadn't entered his mind that someone may have never used a modern
computer.

So in future before you start spouting about people being entitled, maybe you
should not make a bunch of assumptions that is based on your incorrect reading
of a comment.

------
sword_smith
For my masters project in applied nuclear physics in 2013-2014, I was running
the Finnish software Sampo 91 (from 1991) for analyzing gamma spectroscopy
lines produced in our Germanium detector. I could get it to work on Windows
3.1 with some backwards compatibility features. It didn't run on a VM but on a
physical Intel 486 machine the hospital where I was working had laying kept in
store. It was a pretty nostalgic experience to set it up since the 486 was my
family's first computer. I learned two things then: a lot of the basic
features that we expect from an operating system already existed back then,
and using old software is a lot less stressful than modern since computer's
only did one thing at a time back then.

------
noobermin
That computer is older than him but he maintains it. I don't know, in a world
where dev fads arise and die by years it's a little inspiration to see someone
who maintains a multi-decade running system.

------
arbuge
Brought to mind this story:

[https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/infrastructure/a...](https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/infrastructure/a16010/30-year-
old-computer-runs-school-heat/)

~~~
organsnyder
My guess is that this computer is no longer in service, or soon won't be (we
passed a school millage for building upgrades not too long ago).

------
Aromasin
We've got a computer in the lab from the 70's that we use to upload firmware
for some legacy chips still in service on aircraft (a cabin lighting system,
not anything vital to the aircraft staying in the air!). I dread the day that
it breaks because it's all bespoke software and hardware. We tried to back it
up to another device but it's simply not compatible with anything except that
computer.

When it finally gives up the ghost it's likely going to cost thousands to
design a new system with modern hardware, which doesn't even include the cost
of writing up all the new safety documentation and grounding the aircraft for
a refit! To add to the headache, it's all written in BASIC so the only ones
who knew how to do anything with it have long retired or passed away. I don't
look forward to the day I have to reverse engineer that bad boy.

------
uberalex
I apologise if I've failed a reading comprehension check, but did the article
say what the computer was used for?

~~~
Gene_Parmesan
"The FACOM128B greatly contributed to technological advancements during the
period of Japan’s high economic growth from the early 1960s to the early
1970s. The computer was used in the design of camera lenses and the YS-11
plane, Japan’s first passenger aircraft developed after the end of World War
II."

~~~
mirimir
I suspect that parent wonders what it does now. Which is likely ~nothing. But
I am curious how it compares with current machines. Comparable to an i5
desktop? Or to a smartphone?

~~~
blacksmith_tb
With 13K of memory[1] I doubt you could compare it to anything modern bigger
than the simplest e-toy...

1:
[http://museum.ipsj.or.jp/en/heritage/facom128b.html](http://museum.ipsj.or.jp/en/heritage/facom128b.html)

~~~
mirimir
True, but some of those old machines could do amazing stuff with ~huge
datasets. Basically by just doing one ~simple operation per data pass. Read,
do something simple, write. Then repeat that as many times as needed, with a
different operation. Sort of like executing a program one line at a time.

~~~
rbanffy
They did crazy tricks because timesharing wasn't invented and whatever program
was running had the full machine to itself. Also, designers of these computers
usually built everything around the flow of data so that a CPU would have as
little as possible to do to read tapes or cards.

~~~
mirimir
Right. And there wasn't much "full machine" to have.

------
xiphmont
My god. That machine is beautiful.

------
ezoe
Recently, I used a working typewriter. It was a very refreshing experience. It
has space, tab and backspace that physically move the paper back and forth. It
has shift and caps lock which physically shift the head to use the upper part
of the font.

The keystroke was too heavy and couldn't accept fact consecutive typing
because of head jamming.

Now what is remaining for me is to use the working VT100 terminal and
teletype.

~~~
noisy_boy
I learned typing on a typewriter during my college summer holidays because the
general advise was that if I end-up being a total academic failure, I would be
able to earn my bread by typing legal documents at the city court. I thought
it was a useless idea but learned it anyway (in two languages, no less).

As it happens, this came handy throughout my career (before and after I was a
software developer). No matter what you do, you are much more productive on a
computer, if you can type without looking at the keyboard at 70-80 wpm (not
bragging because in the world of good touch typists, that is a poor score).

------
thunderrabbit
Speaking of humming along, if you visit that site with https, they refresh to
http!

[https://www.asahi.com/sp/ajw/articles/AJ201907280007.html](https://www.asahi.com/sp/ajw/articles/AJ201907280007.html)

------
cosmodisk
A little bit off topic,but after reading this post,I texted my mum to check if
they still have this: [https://lady-
eklipse.livejournal.com/4042.html](https://lady-
eklipse.livejournal.com/4042.html) It's photo no.6 in the article.The thing
was made in 1979..Even when I was a kid (I'm 34), my friends were amazed that
I had something like this. She said she'll check if it's still somewhere in
the attic!:)

~~~
varjag
It's super rare, hold onto it!

------
Hamuko
Having watched and listened to the video, the phrase "still humming along" is
definitely a misnomer.

~~~
ilaksh
Still clicking along?

~~~
rbanffy
Indeed. I am not sure it can even increment the program counter without
clicking.

Humming would be hitting a HALT and waiting for the operator to press a
button.

------
doctorstupid
In operation it sounds a bit like a pachinko parlor. Imagine if pachinko
machines performed a useful computation, allowing the parlors to be server
farms powered by gamblers.

------
timonoko
I seem to be the winner of the oldest-computer-still-in-everyday-use
competition here. I have programmable TV-remote based on RCA COSMAC from 1976.

------
jackdh
Is there any translation for the video available?

------
Aardwolf
Relay based, more reliable and needing less replacement than vacuum tubes I
assume, and nice clicking sound too :)

~~~
nwallin
> Relay based, more reliable and needing less replacement than vacuum tubes I
> assume,

Kinda sorta. Relays are mechanical devices that wear every time they're
toggled. Every time you toggle a 1 to a 0 or vice versa, you risk destroying a
relay.

Vacuum tubes don't have moving parts, so the wear is significantly reduced.
However, when they're on, they're very hot, so their wear is related to power
cycling. Every time you power the machine or power the machine off, you risk
destroying a tube. Colossus was kept in a powered on state 24/7, even when not
in use, despite using an ungodly amount of power. It was a measurable
proportion of all of the electricity used on all of Britain during WWII.

So if you never run any programs on a relay computer and keep it in a low
humidity basement, it will last indefinitely. But if you use it to do stuff,
you'll be diagnosing and replacing failed relays routinely. If the computer
has a clockrate of 10Hz and uses reed relays (the long life kind) with a
lifetime of 10 million cycles, you can expect any individual relay to last
2,000,000 seconds of continuous use. Which is about 23 days. Multiply that by
1,000 relays and you've just figured out why it takes a full time employee
just to keep the machine running. Imagine a RAID array using drives with a
MTBF of 23 days. Eww.

~~~
Aardwolf
Ouch!

------
quickthrower2
Amazing. It looks like something from Dr. No.

------
Retro-Reboot
A Mechanical Marvel

