
Windows 10 now wants you to pay for Solitaire - codewithcheese
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/07/30/windows-10-now-wants-you-to-pay-for-solitaire.html
======
quadrangle
This is what drove me to GNU/Linux. Was OS X user, saw how Apple censors GPL
software from App Store, and saw 8-year-old kid with iPod touch getting his
allowance stolen by a solitaire iOS game that charged him real money to cheat
when he got stuck (which you can do with real cards, obviously) _while_
advertising at him to eat at McDonald's. I decided I couldn't trust Apple
anymore, and no way would I trust Microsoft.

This is so blatant. Like there's nobody who can reasonably make the argument
"yeah, but how else can we fund the development of solitaire computer games?"
It already existed. This freemium / ad-infused software trend is effectively
extortion.

~~~
shin_lao
Yeah because software is free to maintain and develop.

You can be disappointed if they make you pay for what was previously free but
saying it's extortion to make people pay for software isn't very considerate
to all of us who make a living of writing software, isn't it?

~~~
scrollaway
I work in the games industry. A lot of the freemium models are absolutely
extortion. Some of the worst ones explicitly target children and gambling
addicts to maximize profits on vulnerable people or abuse the family's card
details.

When done right, Freemium is a fantastic model which can not only generate
more revenue to the company (both short and long term), but is also more
enjoyable and a more fun experience for the user.

When done greedily, it's extortion and is by far the most disgusting sales
model known to mankind.

The latter is most common.

~~~
emsy
>but is also more enjoyable and a more fun experience for the user.

It's hard not to be sarcastic about this topic, but I honestly want to know
which game is more fun freemium than pay once?

~~~
zilean
Any multiplayer game when you cant buy anything that helps you win, yet
receive constant free gameplay content built with moneys of those who want to
buy cosmetics, i.e. league of legends, team fortress and the like.

~~~
pnt12
Disclaimer: I was a dota player, which has some rivalries with LoL

The LoL model is controversial. You may not pay anything, but it will take you
literally thousands of hours to get most champs and runes. Do you need all?
Thats arguable. Can you get IP fast enough to buy champs as they come out?
Most people cant, from what i understand.

Dota and tf2 fit in the freemium that cares for the users.

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frik
Ads inside an operating system (startmenu) and in applications that are
included by default (Solitaire). I never saw that, not in Android, not in iOS,
not in OSX. All telemetry, key and audio capturing and auto-cloud-upload,
peer-to-peer-updates, forced updates, ...these new "features"/annoyances
aren't well received. What's going on at Microsoft campus?

On iOS one can simply deactivate Siri and iCloud, that's it, two settings. On
Android it's almost as simple (remove GoogleNow widget, use
Samsung/HTC/Sony/etc. non cloud-only apps). Windows 10 requires 25 settings to
be changed, and two can only be changed in the Enterprise edition, and to
decide yourself which updates should be installed the very expensive
Enterprise Long Term Servicing Branch edition is required. What's wrong with
Microsoft? Who would trust such an operating system? Nadella seems to be the
worst CEO of Microsoft to date; he receive advance praise unjustified for
earlier work that still Ballmer decided. Microsoft should fix that.

~~~
rspeer
Y'know, there's one place I have seen ads in the OS before: Ubuntu's "Amazon
Shopping Lens" in Unity. That was ugly and tasteless, too, and I hope
Microsoft gets a similar backlash.

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mattnewport
To be fair to Microsoft, you used to have to pay for Solitaire to get your
free copy of Windows, now they've unbundled it you can get Windows 10 for free
without having to buy Solitaire.

~~~
induscreep
Windows 10 isn't free, only the upgrade (from 7/8/8.1) is, and it's a limited
time offer.

~~~
Nexxxeh
I think mattnewport was making a joke there, in case you missed it.

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MLR
I feel like these titles are pretty disingenuous, as far as I'm aware you get
all the functionality of the old Solitaire game and more for free without
being shown any ads at all, while the ads are only in a new game mode.

Not to say I wouldn't prefer there to be no ads at all, or that I don't find
the price extortionate, but these articles seem a bit overblown.

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mikhailt
Microsoft's official statement on this:

> Microsoft Solitaire has been free to play for the past 25 years on Windows,
> and continues to be free to play on Windows 10. Users can access and play
> everything within the game for free, including new premium features like
> Daily Challenges and Star Club. The Microsoft Solitaire Collection game
> experience and Premium Upgrade features such as Double Coins for Daily
> Challenges, and removal of advertisements, is identical to the Windows 8
> version that has been available for purchase for years

Source: [http://www.windowscentral.com/heres-what-microsoft-says-
abou...](http://www.windowscentral.com/heres-what-microsoft-says-about-
windows-10s-version-solitaire-and-its-free-play-model)

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lmz
The games have been moved to the Store since Windows 8.1 (or is it 8?). See:
[http://windows.microsoft.com/en-au/windows-8/solitaire-
mines...](http://windows.microsoft.com/en-au/windows-8/solitaire-minesweeper-
hearts) & [http://www.howtogeek.com/122145/what-happened-to-
solitaire-a...](http://www.howtogeek.com/122145/what-happened-to-solitaire-
and-minesweeper-in-windows-8/)

Not sure when the ads and IAPs were added. I bought a new Windows 8.1 machine
a month or so ago and the version in the Store already included the IAP
prompt.

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protomyth
I get the feeling it was a suggestion from an enterprise customer. The other
thing: it isn't needed anymore to teach people how to use the mouse. It was
amazing how that one game taught a lot of computer haters how the mouse
worked. That damn card game was an addictive motivator. Not a bad lesson to
learn if you have an interface concept that you want people to learn and
practice.

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JTxt
I have older family that are winows solitaire addicts. The windows 8 options
were just bad: Huge fullscreen only, sounds, fancy menus you have to navigate
first...

I copied sol.exe and cards.dll from their retired XP machine.

Works great, just a bit small now. (Aislerot solitare from Linux is a clone
with scalable cards, I wish windows' solitare went that way.)

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BinaryIdiot
I wish I could go back and check but didn't this happen with Windows 8.1?
Seems weird to be outraged now as opposed to back then (unless I'm wrong of
course).

~~~
DCoder
Yes, in Windows 8 / 8.1 Solitaire (as well as other casual games published by
Microsoft, such as Minesweeper, Sudoku, etc.) did include ads. They were shown
in small boxes on the start screen, if you swipe to the right, and in the end
game "you win" screen. In addition to those, I occasionally saw a full-screen
ad when starting a session on the PC, but not on the tablet.

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ChicagoDave
Jeez. Is Microsoft just stupid or what sometimes? You can't charge for
something that's been free for decades.

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s_kilk
This is the nadir of the utterly rancid freemium model of software.

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simonblack
Hasn't MSFT ever heard of a 'Loss Leader'?

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ruffrey
Are they going to start making you pay for MS Paint?

~~~
gbl08ma
Paint and Wordpad are two of the "classic" utilities that stayed untouched in
Windows 10 - even though Paint could benefit from some touchscreen-
friendliness, for users with touch screens, that is. But Microsoft already has
something called "Fresh Paint" in the Windows Store, with IAPs that can cost
as much as $99.99 (according to the app description).

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Retrograderz
The outrage!

In reality, I think Microsoft is suggesting we compare Solitaire from
different vendors, and go that route, instead of using what they provide. They
are so thoughtful!

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brenfrow
How is this different than paying Spotify for the ads to go away? People don't
seem to mind that.

~~~
Macha
Solitaire added ads to something that was previously free and ad free and
added ads.

Spotify took something that previously cost money and made it free with ads.

There's also the fact that people can view Spotify as a ongoing service easily
while people view MS solitaire as a component of a product. Normal people
dislike when you turn their products into services needing ongoing payments

