
Digital IDs needed to end 'mob rule' online, says UK security minister - oldcynic
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/online-digital-identification-mob-rule-online-security-minister-ben-wallace-a8390841.html
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equil
This sentiment was quite popular around 2009-2011 with real-name policies, the
"nymwars", and what have you. The idea that the Greater Internet Fuckwad
Theory [1] explained the noxious state of online discourse had taken root, and
people believed, often in good faith, that peeling back the layers of
anonymity from larger communities would combat bad behavior. Both Google+ and
Battle.net infamously implemented real name policies during this period to
very little discernible effect, and eventually reverted their policies. To
this day human group interaction remains challenging to control, with or
without authoritarian means.

I understand that the intended goal of this policy is likely orthogonal to the
argument presented, but it's a surprisingly weak argument in face of all the
previous attempts showing the contrary. You can effectively point to South
Korea, where they relented on this [2], after the intended effect was shown to
be practically insignificant, while simultaneously putting users at increased
risk.

[1] [https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19](https://www.penny-
arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19)

[2]
[http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2011/12/30/2011...](http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2011/12/30/2011123001526.html)

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sexydefinesher
Is there any explanation as for why the british public is so apathetic against
the increasing authoritarianism?

~~~
orf
That's a case of the pot calling the kettle black if I've ever seen one.

~~~
acct1771
Say it into the CCTV camera, we'll be over here polishing.

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gaius
The most recent online mob I can think of was started by a guy named Jeremy,
attacking a girl for wearing a Chinese dress as "cultural appropriation". He
didn't want anonymity; he revelled in being known as the instigator, even
giving interviews to the press. So I don't think that anonymity is the real
root cause of online mobbing.

[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-
trending-43947959](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-43947959)

Jeremy by the way is an English name of Biblical origin:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_(name)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_\(name\))

~~~
cpmouter
Do we really care about the kind of people who care about "cultural
appropriation"? Just don't pay attention to them.
[http://simpsons.wikia.com/wiki/Just_Don%27t_Look#Lyrics](http://simpsons.wikia.com/wiki/Just_Don%27t_Look#Lyrics)

The same can be said about many, many other "online mobs".

~~~
blattimwind
> Do we really care about the kind of people who care about "cultural
> appropriation"?

Yes, because not disagreeing is considered assent. Telling people with stupid
ideologies that their ideologies are stupid is not something you want to avoid
entirely, at the very least to remind folks that they haven't found the One
True Ideology.

Whether the ideology in question is SJWs/ctrl-left or alt-right... doesn't
really matter. Neither of those should dominate the public or wield
governmental powers. And to avoid precisely that from happening, you speak out
against it.

~~~
marcus_holmes
Isn't that just feeding the trolls though?

~~~
Viliam1234
Coordinating "not feeding trolls" on a large scale is very difficult.

Also, it is difficult to ignore people who can attack you offline. I think
these fanatical students (seems to me they are usually students; students are
most susceptible to recruitment in all kinds of cults) constitute pretty much
zero danger to me... but they can be quite dangerous to their classmates, so
if I had children in university age, I would probably worry a lot.

If you told me that when I eat pizza that it is a cultural appropriation, I
would just tell you to f.off. But when a student is surrounded by militant
classmates, this can lead to bullying. And even worse, when a teacher is a
part of some social justice cult. So... not feeding the trolls is sometimes
not an option, unless you want to give up on your diploma, and the time and
work spent so far studying.

Not feeding trolls also assumes that people are mature enough to recognize who
is a troll. But there is a continuum between people who sincerely believe that
political correctness is simply the usual politeness applied to politically
sensitive topics... and people who throw a hissy fit whenever someone
disagrees with their latest pseudoscience. Try to make a line somewhere, and
people who are under the line but quite close to it are going to object.

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sbhn
The bottom line is that some British family owned business is going to win the
billion dollar security database tender.

Edit: I know that’s not fair, the money will go to some offshore company where
it’s a bit harder to account for

Edit2: also I think when a politician starts telling us we need increased
security, we need to start looking at the private communications for any
evidence of bribery

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taneq
Instigating or joining a witch hunt is a form of virtue signalling, so online
anonymity seems pretty irrelevant.

It might stem the tide of individual online harassment but that's not really
'mob rule'.

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hliyan
Question (not rhetorical): is it worthwhile to allow anonymous criticism of
the state and those in power, while requiring people to stand behind all other
types of statements as real named individuals?

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pavel_lishin
Who decides what constitutes "legitimate" criticism and the state? That line
is too hard to draw.

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marcus_holmes
I'm curious why bullying/mobs/trolling/whatever is rampant on Twitter, common
on Facebook, but non-existent on LinkedIn. Anyone got any ideas why this is
so?

~~~
ghaff
It's both pretty tightly tied to real identity and mostly public. Add to that,
like it or not, it's heavily used by recruiters, etc. for professional jobs.

~~~
marcus_holmes
yeah, but don't the recruiters check Twitter/FB profiles too?

~~~
ghaff
A lot of Twitter handles are anonymous. And, if you're not connected as a
friend, you're basically not going to see anything about or from me on
Facebook.

LinkedIn is definitely the go to place to check people out for professional
purposes.

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pasbesoin
At the root of much of this, I find "leaders" who call for such things while
simultaneously exempting themselves from the same level of scrutiny and
accountability.

You're a "leader". You, first.

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Yetanfou
In order to save the city we had to destroy it.

In order to save freedom of speech we have to curtail it.

In order to save democracy we have to put limits on it.

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saas_co_de
> Describing Silicon Valley billionaires, he said: “The phoniness irritates me
> - it’s, ‘I’m a hippy with a beanbag and, oh yes, there is my superyacht’.

Well, at least he got something right.

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tomjen3
>saying they would be ordered to clamp down on vile attacks against women on
their platforms.

Oh that is easy to stop: women are now banned from our platforms.

Every government action or law will have unintended results.

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paul7986
A digital ID or drivers license that forces you to take a test that schools
you on fake news, deep fakes, phishing, ransomware, two way verification and
other similar things I think would be a good thing! Also each time you post a
comment or video your Identity is attached to it which would make someone
think twice about posting a deep fake(if the video is reposted the orginator
and the reposter(s) ID is attached) that depicts something harmful to society
(president saying going to nuke xyz) or harmful to someone else.

For security purposes you’d have to biometrical ID yourself before
posting/attaching your identity to it.

 __*if you downvote this .. why is this a bad idea? It’s just an idea I
thought after watching deep fakes thinking wow something needs to fight such.

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furi
That would make the (largely hypothetical) problem of deepfaked news far far
worse. It's the same problem we see with TLS where a green lock just means
people's brains turn off. "It must be tied to a real person's ID" is trivial
for anybody determined to bypass (they can just steal, forge or make an ID)
but when people view it they will see that it's been verified by the
government's big brother identity system, so it must be legitimate. It's
literally arming the bad guys with the tools to make their fakes look
government endorsed.

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paul7986
Yes I understand security concerns thus you are forced to verify yourself via
your retina and thumbprints.

~~~
furi
Still absolutely trivial for a state level actor to bypass, aka: the exact
people you really don't want creating fake news that looks government
endorsed.

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UncleEntity
Yep, we'll have to make sure that the only place internets posting can take
place is in person at the _Department of Right Thinking_ until you have a high
enough social score to be trusted.

Because that's what all this is really about.

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GekkePrutser
Exactly. Look for China as an example where this is already happening today.

