
Early 20th Century Technocracy Movement - benbreen
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy_movement
======
Detrus
Soviet Union tried to do this through 1960's computers, surveys and experts.

Adam Curtis "documentary" is the extent of my knowledge on their attempts

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3gwyHNo7MI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3gwyHNo7MI)

It's a monumental complex systems problem. Besides the 1960's computers the
Soviets were hampered by their utilitarian ideology that didn't take home
decor into consideration.

~~~
Animats
Today, Wal-Mart runs a centralized economy bigger than Soviet consumer
production in the 1970s. It's all run out of Bentonville, Arkansas. Wal-Mart
is so centralized that the thermostats in the stores are controlled from
Bentonville. Purchasing is centralized in Bentonville. Store managers don't
determine what they sell.

The Soviet GOSPLAN planning cycle was just too slow. They had an annual
planning cycle and a monthly information cycle. Wal-Mart has a weekly planning
cycle and a daily information cycle.

China has a national 5-year plan. Here's an analysis of the last 5-year plan
(2011-2015) by a US consulting firm.[1]

[1]
[http://www.kpmg.com/CN/en/IssuesAndInsights/ArticlesPublicat...](http://www.kpmg.com/CN/en/IssuesAndInsights/ArticlesPublications/Publicationseries/5-years-
plan/Documents/China-12th-Five-Year-Plan-Overview-201104.pdf)

~~~
DanielBMarkham
Wal-Mart doe not run a centralized economy. It runs a business that buys items
for one price in one location, then sells them at another price in another.

Running an economy is a political affair. People can decide not to go to Wal-
Mart; they cannot as easily decide not to be a citizen.

Quite frankly, a large majority of the horrors of the 20th century were due to
folks thinking "Oh, I understand where we went wrong this last time with our
centralized planning. This time will be much better!" There's a ton of reasons
for this -- enough to put in a book. Or several books. And those books are out
there if you are interested in them.

A related question is this: can you run just a simple store like Wal-Mart
through a technocracy? You probably can to a certain degree, then it falls
apart. The more you can automate, of course, the less actual value you are
creating. Software continues to eat the world.

But no, feedback cycle time is not the issue. Not even close.

~~~
Detrus
Yea the overall economy makes decisions on what to manufacture. Do you make a
bunch of entertaining fluff or focus on essentials? Wal-mart merely optimizes
the supply chain of fluff.

As far as markets vs centralization, it was always this way. There was never a
purely capitalist or communist society that lasted long and supported a large
population. The argument was always the implementation and balance of
centralization and privatization.

Starting from scratch in a radically different system is too disruptive, even
if the final result would have been better. A lot has to do with culture, as
people say you can write Java in any language. You have to change an existing
system very slowly.

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joepvd
Alwayhs thought this was a nice depiction, I am guessing it comes from the
same time:
[http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0e8cy88A01qzcdwho1_1280.j...](http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0e8cy88A01qzcdwho1_1280.jpg)

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wmf
AFAIK China is trying a similar approach right now.

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ap46
Was pondering over this myself. You go to the dentist for your oral health.
You ask a civil engineer to build your home. You have a teacher to teach your
kids. So you need people with knowledge to run your country as well.

~~~
vox_mollis
Say what you want about monarchies and the aristocracy, but they were bred,
educated, and raised specifically to govern, and had a vested interest in
governing well -- lest they and their progeny be eliminated violently by the
governed.

~~~
jqm
The problem with that idea is that there wasn't an orderly way to replace
rulers when they ceased to govern effectively. So you might get one good king
then a string of bad ones. Example: Marcus Aurelius and his son Commodus.

Being bred and raised to govern isn't a good thing in some people. It gives
them a sense of entitlement that makes them ineffective. Far better people
should have to try out for the position. Which is of course how many dynasties
originally begin.

Democracy kind of sucks in ways, but it mostly works better than government by
"specialists".

Really I can't wait for government by machine. I have to suppose it's
inevitable given time.

~~~
AnimalMuppet
> Really I can't wait for government by machine.

It's the same problem. What if you get a bad machine?

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masterCat
See also
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantropa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantropa)

