
Obama axes NASA moon plan in new budget - J3L2404
http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/tre6101xf-us-obama-budget-space/
======
motters
Obama deserves kudos for this. Lowering the cost of access to space by
introducing commercial rocketry is a step in the right direction, which will
facilitate many other things in future. Going back to the moon in a craft
almost identical to Apollo would have represented neither a science nor an
engineering advance.

This could be the beginning of the end of grandstanding "national prestige"
space projects, and the start of an expansion in human activities in space.

------
thegrossman
Just to be clear: This announcement kills the entire Constellation program
_including_ Orion, the spacecraft meant to replace the Space Shuttle.

In other words, after the last few shuttle missions this year, the United
States will no longer have a manned space program.

Right or wrong, this is devastating news to me.

~~~
sketerpot
The budget is also increasing NASA support for (or dependence on) private
spaceflight companies for their rocketry needs. SpaceX's Dragon space capsule
has a manned configuration, and the Falcon 9 rocket is due to make its first
orbital launch in the next one to three months. Manned spaceflight is not
dying.

~~~
waterlesscloud
Why does everyone assume that NASA will turn to the small startup companies?

History indicates it's the Lockheeds of the country that NASA will turning to.

~~~
thegrossman
Actually, Lockheed is the company that is designing and building the Orion
spacecraft. Which is why this whole thing is slightly confusing... NASA does
very little design and construction of their own hardware. At least on paper,
our manned space program _is_ privatized.

------
maxklein
Humans should not be going to the moon at this point in time for exploration.
We should focus on robots going to the moon - spending that money on
developing robots will have a much larger benefit than spending the money
trying to keep a human safe. We'll develop advanced controlling and
communication systems for this.

You can send a robot to the moon and leave him there - a human has to come
back. That's an uneccessary expense.

When we have enough robots on the moon they can build the structures
neccessary to support human life there.

~~~
ErrantX
Indeed this is the logical choice.

But the beauty of humanity is we prefer to reach for extraordinary things. I
bet a large number of people would still _love_ to send manned missions to the
Moon.

~~~
dantheman
Everyone loves the idea of it, just not the cost.

------
designtofly
I certainly consider this bad news. I know there's a lot of people on here who
poo-poo manned spaceflight as needlessly expensive and unnecessary. But let me
say this, manned flight (both air and space) as inspiration is the number one
reason that I'm an aerospace engineer today. I know I'm not alone in this.
While moves like these make economic sense in the short term, I have no doubt
that in the long term, they will rob this industry of talented and inspired
people... in some ways, the lack of progress in aerospace in the last 30 years
already has shown this to be true.

I'd rather the administration issue grand challenges in all fields (especially
aerospace) in order to inspire us today and future generations. Having an
inspired workforce is the most critical challenge and essential to continued
success and growth in any field.

edited to add: In case it wasn't clear, my point is that there is no way I'd
be an aerospace engineer today if the aerospace vehicles and missions in my
youth were unmanned/robotic. Yes, robotics is "cool"... but it's not even in
the same league as manned flight when it comes to inspiration for me.

------
seldo
As a pretty die-hard Obama supporter and also a huge geek, this is a tough one
for me. The change in funding priorities gives us another 5 years of funding
for the ISS of course, which is by far the greater achievement than landing on
the mood yet again. And the greater funding for private space flight is also
an excellent idea.

Still: it would have been nice to go to the moon.

~~~
DannoHung
Maybe this is just me, but I was never terribly keen on another Moon landing.
In general, I'm not interested in further manned space exploration unless it
contributes to establishing an industrial presence in space.

Probes and robots are doing a pretty damned good job at exploratory science.

~~~
poutine
Not just you, give me more Spirit/Opportunity and Cassini-Huygens please.

------
holograham
going to the moon was the first step in a potential Mars mission...this pushes
back Mars by a decade at least

~~~
ajross
You have a cite for that decade number? Seems silly to me, given that we've
already _been_ to the moon, and over 40 years ago at that. Surely we should be
at Neptune at least by now, no? :)

More seriously: what is the value of a Mars mission that we should be paying
for it? There's no meaningful science to be done there (vs. what can be done
via much cheaper means, anyway), just lots of eye candy and fantasy material
for wannabe astronauts.

~~~
holograham
yes.... <http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/home/orion_announcement.html>

The orion crew capsule was part of the Constellation program. Same technology
and innovations to bring the astronauts to the moon.

------
sailormoon
$3 billion a week to occupy Iraq - _no problem!_

$8 billion over four years to go to the frickin' moon - _too expensive!_

Go figure.

~~~
briansmith
We shouldn't be wasting $3 billion a week in Iraq. But, we shouldn't be
wasting $2 billion a year to go to the moon either. AFAICT, there's no
significant scientific justification for people to go to the moon or to Mars
at this time. Robots can go instead. Previous robot-based Mars missions have
been very successful--except for the ones that would have killed everybody on
board if they were manned.

~~~
ajross
Absolutely. This was dumb, and quite frankly a cynical bread-and-circus idea
in the first place. There was _never_ any meaningful scientific justification
for the project (nor the Mars one that was announced simultaneously).

Although the grandparent post is right: relative to other wastes in our
government (the Iraq war being by far the biggest discretionary one), this is
small potatoes. But $8B is $8B, and it means it doesn't have to be cut
elsewhere.

~~~
DannoHung
GAH, why does Hacker News cut off replies at certain points?

This is a response to the child of this post talking about Chinese moon
missions:

My thoughts will entirely depend on just what space development we have done
in the intervening years. If some company is beginning an asteroid surveying
mission or there is an orbital construction platform, I'm not going to give
two damns about what the Chinese are doing with flags. Good for them!

If we are going to spend money on space we should stop thinking in terms of
spectacle.

~~~
sailormoon
Here's a trick: if you click the direct link to the post, you can reply there
without any cutoffs :D

And hey, I agree. If Team USA is building orbital platforms and doing asteroid
surveys by then, then I will be utterly delighted.

If, however, because of our lack of long-term vision and misplaced priorities,
the space exploration arena comes to be utterly dominated by India, Russia,
China, the EU and Japan, then I think I will be justified in lamenting the
failings of leadership in my own country I perceive today. Well, I'm not even
American actually (though I have family who are), but y'know, I feel a sort of
inter-westerner kinship ...

