
Why It's So Hard to Learn Another Language After Childhood - alberto_ol
http://time.com/5261446/language-critical-period-age/
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wjnc
The whole article hinges on an empty premise: "Possible explanations could
include changes in brain plasticity, lifestyle changes related to entering the
workforce or college or an unwillingness to learn new things — potentially
while looking foolish in the process — that mounts with age."

I would argue (as a European) having learned 7 languages over the years (only
2-3 to any practical level, but including Greek and Latin as a firm
foundation) only time matters. Invest the time and you can go to a pretty
decent level in any language. Some are harder than others, fluency takes
periods of continuous exposure, but it's all a function of time spent. Kids
not only have time and emerse themselves by nature in their first language,
but are obliged via social structures to practice (schools even come with
punishment you know). The rest might give you some hindrance at 20+ but
nowhere near the effect of don't spending the hours reading and talking.

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Smudgya
To be honest I don't really think it is that hard.

For children it is a question about survival. They practice every time they
open their mouth and try to communicate. 24 hours a day 7 days a week. If you
did this for 6 months with lets say Chinese, I am sure you would pick it up
very fast.

Adults have an advantage over children, I would even say. They already speak
one language and have reference points already.

~~~
taejo
Agreed. It takes children about 7 years of intense exposure and practice to
become fluent in their native language, and many more years to become really
eloquent and quick-witted. Any adult who invests 7 years into intense exposure
and practice can reach a pretty good level; there are aspects that are more
difficult for them (accent!) but they also have the advantage of being able to
read, take classes, ask specific questions about the language, etc.

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bond
When I was a kid I learned english by watching cartoons and movies with
subtitles, in Portugal we have subtitles in pretty much everything except
comercials.

As I grew up it was easy to learn a few words in other languages due to
watching movies. This is extremely easy and I can see why other european
cultures don't speak other languages more easily, all is translated to their
native language so they don't have that correlation on what is being said with
the meaning....

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schuke
A personal experience: when I have to remember or tell numbers in English,
they always come into my mind first as Chinese, making it harder to use
numbers in English.

When I just started living in England, every time I have to tell someone my
phone number, it was either a translation from my mental number in Chinese
into English, or, a deliberate suppression of my instinct to speak or use
Chinese while saying it in English.

On the other hand, if it's something without any obvious Chinese equivalent,
it comes very naturally in English. For example, Marmite.

~~~
seszett
It's still the same for me with numbers, any numbers always just come up in
French even if I'm speaking another language.

The first time I had to give a Canadian phone number in English, I just tried
to translate it and I had no idea how people could say numbers like "five
hundred and fourteen, two hundred fifty-seven, two thousands four hundred and
fifty-five". It flows quite well in French. Well, the guy at the other end
stopped me and told me that in English they don't bother and just say the
numbers one by one.

~~~
Uberphallus
French numbers come naturally to me, up to 69, then my brain slows down. Like
for any foreign speaker, I assume.

For those who don't know French, 70 is "sixty ten" all the way to "sixty
nineteen" at 79, then from 80 to 99 "four twenties" to "four twenties
nineteen".

Another effect is that my French phone number comes out naturally in French,
same for all the phone numbers of all the countries I've had a phone in.

~~~
seszett
You could use the Belgian and Swiss way to say 70 and 90: _septante_ and
_nonante_. They work just like the other _-ante_ numbers, 79 is just
_septante-neuf_ , 99 _nonante-neuf_. It's a bit weird at first for French
people, but easy to understand and much easier for you to use.

80 is _huitante_ in some places in Switzerland, it's much less common (and
many people expect "octante" instead, which is even less common) but people
would still understand.

~~~
tom_mellior
Producing the numbers is the easier part. Not losing the thread of the
conversation when someone else tells you something about sixty-thirteen is the
hard part.

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laurieg
I have a little experience in this area. I would sum up the reasons as:

1\. Children put in more time. An adult who puts in an hour a day of study is
studying hardcore, but a child will play with people or watch cartoons in a
new language for hours and hours. When it comes to your native language you
basically don't have a choice to use it for 12+ hours a day.

2\. Most adults aren't used to learning new things. Children are learning new
things all the time, it's their bread and butter. Adults often haven't learnt
anything new since university age. Being a poor communicator in a new language
is often very demotivating.

3\. Adults can't shut off their native language. They're so used to speaking
and thinking using their native language everyday that when it comes to a
second language they can't shut it off. I find people who are good at
suppressing their native language attain a far better level in the long run.
Their are certain signs that someone is good at doing this, usually you can
tell after a few meetings with them.

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monster_group
The article completely skips over the fact that adults just don't have enough
time. Children don't have to raise children, go get their car fixed, mow the
lawn. They are bombarded with native language at home, at school, while
playing with friends. They could not not learn the language even if they
wanted to. Whereas for adults, they are not bombarded with the language unless
they move countries to be in an immersive environment. In a non-immersive
environment you need to dedicate time to learn the language which is a
fraction of the time children are exposed to while learning mother tongue.

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unixhero
I learned 4 after childhood. It takes pure practice and humble(to make many
mistakes) and open(to practice) personality.

But I have never ever managed to learn a programming language well. So instead
I became an economist and social scientist.

~~~
jacobush
I'll tell you a secret. You don't have to know any of them well. You just need
to be able to do a days good work (or heck, a quarter of a day) and you'll be
ahead of most of your competition. I am sure this goes for most white collar
work.

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pendenthistory
Why does so many sites implement GDPR with opt-out of tracking when the law
explicitly states it has to be opt-in?

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teilo
A lot of what we thought we knew about neuroplasticity and age has proven to
be wrong. If it plays any factor at all, it appears to be secondary. This is
good news for people of any age. Neuroplasticity decline cannot be controlled.
Other factors can be.

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ItsMe000001
Coursera course "The Bilingual Brain"

[https://www.coursera.org/learn/bilingual](https://www.coursera.org/learn/bilingual)

> _This course explores the brain bases of bilingualism by discussing
> literature relevant to differences in age of initial learning, proficiency,
> and control in the nonverbal, single language and dual-language literature.
> Participants will learn about the latest research related to how humans
> learn one or two languages and other cognitive skills._

I took it and it is in line with my personal experience (German native,
English and Russian second, a tiny - and by now mostly forgotten - bit of
French, Arabic).

The TL;DR of the science according to that course: No it is not more
difficult. The only thing that is different is the very basics of how you form
and recognize sounds in their most basic form. You learn those in very early
childhood. Late learners will use different areas of the brain, partially, but
they won't be worse, except they'll have an accent especially if the sounds in
the new language are very different from the ones you are used to.

How long does it take you to learn your native tongue? It's years for the
basics, well over a decade to become proficient. What makes it seem like less
of an effort may be that you don't have an choice when you are 3 years old
about what else to do with your time. You MUST learn the language.

By now, English is just like my native language to me as far as listening is
concerned. If I have to speak it gets a little bit more exhausting compared to
my mother tongue if I have to do it for long stretches. I never, ever have to
reach for the German word first, except when I really don't know the word in
English: For example, there are sooo many special words about craftsmanship
staff or machinery that I learned because I did a lot of that stuff as a
child, but as an adult I only ever needed "daily life English" and "IT
English", so overall I still know a lot more words in German simply because I
never need(ed) them in my English-language life.

In Russian I feel completely at home and comfortably "understand" each and
every word even when it's spoken very quickly - but I have no idea what they
say. I understand the words on the "sounds" level, and I also have a feeling
for the grammar, but since I rarely ever actually used the language my
internal dictionary doesn't have nearly enough words for a useful
conversation. However, I found/find it interesting, this dichotomy, that on
the one hand I feel completely at home with that language on a very low level
(sounds and grammar), and yet I cannot actually do anything with it because on
a higher level the words and their meanings are missing.

I stopped being interested in learning more languages when I realized that I'm
plenty busy just perfecting my knowledge of English, the one language I
actually use. When I was proficient reading Stephen King novels and daily
papers I picked up "The Lord of the Rings" and for the first 50 pages or so I
had to consult a dictionary about ten times per page. Same when I read The
Economist instead of daily newspapers, so many new words.

I found that I was no longer interested in small talk, something you can do
after a relatively short time of learning a language, I was interested in
deep(er) conversations, but learning enough of a language for that kind of
conversation takes much longer. But how many deep conversations could you have
in your native tongue at the age of ten? Okay, maturity also factors in, but
overall I see no basis for a claim that learning languages becomes harder per
se. As an aggregate effect, sure, I just pointed to a few reasons myself after
all.

