
Micro heaters cut 87% off my electric heat bill - dantiberian
http://www.richsoil.com/electric-heat.jsp
======
Swizec
This is where I really prefer the European model[1] - you heat the whole house
with hot water. You make hot water with cheap natural gas. If you're lucky
enough, you can even use geothermal.

Then you use insulation. This especially is something that feels nobody in the
US has heard of. At least in California.

As a result, your radiators are turned down to 2 out of 10 all day (heating
turns off automatically overnight), and you have to sometimes open a window
when it's -13C outside so you don't sweat.

Now I don't know how much people spend on heating when they live in a house
house, but my apartment's heating bill this winter was about 30 euro a
month[2] and I had to keep all my radiators turned off because the one in the
bathroom couldn't be regulated. So that alone was enough to heat everything to
extremely comfortable levels.

tl;dr don't heat with air, insulate your fucking house, and install modern
windows

[1] Could just be where I'm from, but it seems fairly common in Europe and not
at all something I've seen in the US

[2] I think my gramps spends about 2k euro in October to pay for natural gas
that heats his house until some time in April. So about 300/month for a ~10
bedroom house because he's got a house that's way too big.

~~~
curun1r
> Then you use insulation. This especially is something that feels nobody in
> the US has heard of. At least in California.

In defense of Californians, most of us rarely, if ever, turn on a heater and
most homes here don't have AC. Our heating and cooling costs are a small
fraction of those of you who live in places that have seasons.

~~~
dragonwriter
> > Then you use insulation. This especially is something that feels nobody in
> the US has heard of. At least in California.

There's lots of poorly insulated homes in California, either because they are
old or cheaply-made, or because they are in places that have milder weather
where it is less necessary. But there are also lots of well-insulated homes in
California.

> In defense of Californians, most of us rarely, if ever, turn on a heater and
> most homes here don't have AC. Our heating and cooling costs are a small
> fraction of those of you who live in places that have seasons.

As a Central Valley resident, I think you may be falsely generalizing from
"the Bay Area" to "California". Even cheap homes in the Valley usually have
AC, even if its not _central_ AC.

~~~
x0x0
My 2 bed apartment, with both people working from home pretty regularly, and
floor-to-ceiling windows on one side, costs < $30/mo for electric + gas except
for 2-3 months in the winter, when it rises to $60 or so. Though we have no tv
and no a/c. (last bill: 5.8 kWh/day)

Given those costs, it's very difficult to get a return on better insulation or
insulated windows.

------
arh68
Imagine how much more they could save by keeping the heated mattress pad on
and never leave the bed! I mostly jest..

The author seems totally unaware of the efficiency gains that a _heat pump_
can provide. A 300W space heater will be easily outmatched by a heat pump that
consumes 300W (unless we're dropping way, way below 0C). The efficiency is
likely ~3x [1]. I hope the author isn't making this mistake out of disdain for
centralized hvac, since window unit heat pumps are readily available for small
spaces.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pump#Efficiency](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pump#Efficiency)

~~~
jqm
I found this out the hard way one winter.

Without looking into specifics I decided that a couple of small well placed
space heaters (in rooms with traffic) might save electricity over the whole
house heat pump.

I had 3 small space heaters that ran most of the day and night and I turned
the heat pump down to 50. I was wrong. My electric bill was higher than just
running the heat pump, and most of the house was cold most of the time.

------
dredmorbius
Spot-heating, especially within a leaky building envelope utilizing expensive
heat sources (electric resistance) _is_ one option.

But it's hardly the only one, or the best. For northern climates, taking a
whole-system approach to home/structure design gets you a tremendously greater
payoff in terms of energy savings.

Among the most powerful demonstrations of this I've seen are Thorsten Chlupp /
Reina LLC's experiences designing and building zero net energy homes in
Fairbanks, Alaska.

His videos are long (~90 minutes) be _exceptionally_ comprehensive. The TL;DR
is:

• Total envelope. He pays exceptional attention to _any_ thermal envelope
penetrations. All emissions (air, water, sewage) pass through thermal
exchanges.

• Thermal mass. The foundation, flooring, central masonry stove, and a 5,000
gallon stratified thermal storage tank all store and scavange thermal energy
both passively and actively.

• Moisture control. Heat barriers introduce thermal issues. Chlupp makes use
of multiple glazings, window setbacks, and _exterior_ thermal shutters to
minimize moisture buildup on windows. Moisture barriers and ventilation of
interstitial spaces is designed to clear moisture.

• Heat pumps. Rather than create thermal energy directly (other than the
masonry stove), Chlupp _moves_ heat using ground-loop heat pumps.

• Solar and net metering. Solar panels (yes, in Alaska) and net metering help
him arrive at net zero energy. His first-year goal wasn't met due to plug-in
hybrid vehicles, an oversight in his energy modeling.

Though conceived as a whole-system ground-up greenfield design, the principles
are applicable to a lesser degree as retrofit options.

Oh, and for heating your bed: a 1 liter Nalgene bottle, filled with boiling
hot water, and slipped into a wool sock, will heat your bed cozily. Two are
almost certainly too hot, but you're welcome to try. And they'll last the
night.

[http://www.reina-llc.com/](http://www.reina-llc.com/)

Alaska's First Net Zero Energy Homes Performance Update
[http://fixyt.com/watch?v=Xen_VWyDezY](http://fixyt.com/watch?v=Xen_VWyDezY)

Path to Net Zero Energy Series -- Alaska's first Net Zero Ho...
[http://fixyt.com/watch?v=AtHkvpRI6fc](http://fixyt.com/watch?v=AtHkvpRI6fc)

[http://fixyt.com/search?q=thorsten+chlupp+zero+net+energy](http://fixyt.com/search?q=thorsten+chlupp+zero+net+energy)

~~~
XorNot
On hot water bottles: the energy spent boiling that water is likely comparable
to the energy an electric blanket on low power would use.

~~~
jtheory
Don't use boiling water with hot water bottles; the ones you can buy have
warnings about this (it can damage them). Just use hot water from the tap
(which hopefully should be more efficiently heated than however you boil water
as well).

Don't worry about energy consumption; it's negligible for the hot water
bottle, and for the electric blanket as well, especially compared to keeping
your house heat up high at night. Not really worth debating, though do note:
the hot water bottle has a fail-proof, _gradual_ , automatic shutoff, it fits
any size bed, requires no electric outlet, requires minimal storage space
during warmer months (so you can have an extra for guests), and has an initial
investment of, like, $4. :)

~~~
dredmorbius
If the bottles are dedicated to this use, it's fine.

The soft-walled ones may discolour slightly.

~~~
jtheory
It probably depends on the water bottle.

I put boiling water into a fairly thin-walled rubber one, and it sprang a leak
a few minutes later, so I'm more careful now.

~~~
dredmorbius
There's a reason I specified Nalgene.

------
nostromo
People should check out WattVision. It's a little device that attaches to your
electrical meter so you can monitor your electrical usage.

What I've found is that almost all of our home's electrical usage comes from
heating (heaters, clothes dryers, and hot water).

Everything else is almost a rounding error. For example: I saw almost no
change when we switched from incandescents to LED lighting (even in the summer
when we're not heating the house) but I saw a large change with efficient
shower heads and washing clothes on cold.

~~~
tungwaiyip
Totally heating dominate energy use. I'm rather disturb to hear people pay
much attention to so call "phantom power" from idle electronics and adapters.
Adapters plugged in the socket do not consume measurable power. Wifi router
uses about a few watts. The worst offender is a set-top box that uses 18W
irrespective of power on or off. It is piece of crap anyway so I unplugged it.
All the electronics in the house probably use less power in a day compare to
running a 1500W heater for 15 minutes.

~~~
gone35
Not really. It used to be true in the 1970s; but today appliances consume
roughly about the same as space heating, despite decades of energy efficiency
improvements --and the culprit is, you guessed it, the rise of consumer
electronics [1,2].

And it's not just standby-mode "phantom consumption", as the EPA used to
think. Today there are more devices with larger, sharper screens and hungrier
batteries to charge, all left on for longer than ever before [2]. And it all
adds up.

[1]
[http://www.eia.gov/consumption/residential/reports/2009/elec...](http://www.eia.gov/consumption/residential/reports/2009/electronics.cfm)

[2]
[http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/prod_development/downl...](http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/prod_development/downloads/EEDAL-145.pdf)

~~~
fulafel
Air conditioning. TV/gadget increases are dwarfed by savings in fridges,
lighting, washers etc.

------
g8oz
In my experience thermal underwear (long johns) should be considered a must
during winter. You don't have to live in a place like Canada or Minnesota to
make them a standard part of your wardrobe.

------
dredmorbius
OK, Paul Wheaton simply doesn't know what he's talking about:

"I think that this does produce some savings, but not as much as you might
think. If you set your thermostat to a constant 70, the heater works a little
at a time throughout the day. If you drop it to 50 at night or in the middle
of the day, the heater stops working, but then when the time comes to warm the
house again, the heater has to work at full power for a long time to get the
temp back up - thus losing a lot of your savings."

 _WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG_

Heat losses are driven by two factors:

1\. The temperature differential between the hot and cold sides.

2\. The thermal conductivity (or exchange) between the hot and cold sides.

That's straight out of Newton's Law of Cooling / Fourier's Law:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convective_heat_transfer#Newton...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convective_heat_transfer#Newton.27s_law_of_cooling)

If you're running heat constantly, you're maintaining a _constant_ flow of
heat from your interior to the exterior. That is, you're maintaining a high
heat exchange rate to the exterior, and you're constantly wasting a large
portion of heat.

If you're heating only while you need a warm interior, then as the interior
temperature falls, the energy flux to the exterior decreases. You're no longer
pumping heat into the external environment.

Yes, you'll run your furnace/heating system continuously for a while in
raising the interior temperature, _but that is largely adding heat to the
interior space, not to the exterior_.

The net is expending _less_ energy.

Your _most efficient_ strategy is to turn interior heat down to the minimum
essential level (ultimately: enough to keep pipes from freezing), or the
minimum level the thermostat allows (often ~50F in the US). My own practice is
generally to turn any heating system off entirely at night.

From a moisture management perspective, you also win as cold air has a lower
_absolute_ humidity, that is, the _quantity_ of water it can hold is lower.
Heating cold humid air reduces the _relative_ humidity, allowing walls and
surfaces to dry out.

The overnight heat loss is also a very clear sign that Paul Wheaton is dealing
with an exceptionally poorly insulated structure. And a very poor grasp of
thermodynamics.

The same principle holds for AC as well, though here you want to _increase_
the temperature setting at which the AC comes on, or disable AC entirely while
you're out of the home.

A better way of thinking of this is to _minimize the energy input_ (heating or
cooling) when it's not needed.

See:

[http://www.uswitch.com/energy-saving/guides/heating-on-
all-t...](http://www.uswitch.com/energy-saving/guides/heating-on-all-the-
time/)

[http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2970/does-
turning-d...](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2970/does-turning-down-
the-thermostat-at-night-save-energy)

[http://energy.gov/energysaver/articles/thermostats](http://energy.gov/energysaver/articles/thermostats)

~~~
byuu
His article on CFLs ([http://www.richsoil.com/CFL-fluorescent-light-
bulbs.jsp](http://www.richsoil.com/CFL-fluorescent-light-bulbs.jsp)) is very
cringe-worthy as well. As part of his argument, he references a report he
heard of claiming that kids gained 20 IQ points by switching back to
incandescent bulbs. Seriously.

~~~
fuzzywalrus
His article on Diatomaceous earth is mind boggling, advocating cooking with it
[http://www.richsoil.com/diatomaceous-
earth.jsp](http://www.richsoil.com/diatomaceous-earth.jsp)

wikipedia: "In order to be effective as an insecticide, diatomaceous earth
must be uncalcinated (i.e., it must not be heat-treated prior to
application)[13] and have a mean particle size below about 12 µm (i.e., food-
grade – see below)"

Its used occasionally for deworming people and considered a low risk
insecticide. Just because you can eat it and it has some benefits in use cases
doesn't mean you should consume as much as you can. Its the classic vitamin
snake-oils sales pitch, "X is good for you thus more of X must be better for
you"

~~~
dredmorbius
I've encountered advocates of DE consumption previously. No real sense of
whether it's legit or bogus, though there seems to be some plausibility. I'd
have to look into other sources. Wheaton's credibility based on his other
statements isn't great, and dosing and/or specific indications would be
useful.

It _is_ helpful to realize that in a pre-industrial society, parasites were
_very_ common among humans (and still are in less developed nations),
including many introduced via food. Whether or not DE could combat that is
arguable, but a regular intake _might_ be argued if you're subject to
parasites in your food supply. I'm more in favor of alternatives such as
cooking.

------
XorNot
Looking at this as conventional power savings is wrong.

It's better to look at this as comfort. I just recently bought one of those 20
watt heat mats, for one specific reason: while using a computer it is
_impossible_ to keep my feet warm. Socks, boots, anything? Doesn't work. It
was a huge problem while I was studying.

Since I got one, for 20 W, my feet are warm. In fact, my perception of room
temperature as a whole has been massively improved. This is a lot less power
usage then any type of whole room solution.

~~~
rdancer
Have you gone to true extremes? I have found that synthetic fur works
extremely well, and is very comfortable, even with stone-cold floors.

I'm going to be buying pair of these for the upcoming winter; they're dirt-
cheap, machine washable, and will last several seasons:

[http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00FG1XINO/ref=oh_aui_det...](http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00FG1XINO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

I have been thinking about thermal socks as well (
[http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pairs-Mens-Thermal-Socks-
Size/dp/B00...](http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pairs-Mens-Thermal-Socks-
Size/dp/B0019QPX1K/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1406819251&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=tehrmal+socks)
), and furry boots for the great outdoors.

------
harmegido
I'm sorry, I'm sure this idea/post is valid, but damnit if this isn't exactly
what the recent HBO show "Silicon Valley" lampooned in the finale.

I cannot stop laughing.

~~~
3minus1
it's not exactly the same, but close enough to be cuttingly funny.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WvDHKKsCL4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WvDHKKsCL4)

------
redcap
> The bathroom is the one room in the house that is heated normally.

You can get heated toilet seats - they're quite common in Japan. One example:
[http://www.heatedtoiletseat.com](http://www.heatedtoiletseat.com)

~~~
mbrameld
Alaskan here. Getting out of the shower in a cold bathroom is no fun. A towel
heater can help a lot with that, though.

------
debrice
Well, not heating your house enough can also cost you your house as mold and
ice can grow in very cold zone of your house. But I do like the ingenuity of
the solution.

Shit Norwegians Say: “There’s no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothes”

~~~
schiffern
This is addressed in the article.

>FAQ: It might work in Montana, but in Seattle, our windows would get moldy

>There are a variety of ways to mitigate the mold problems that occur in cold,
humid climates. I did some experimenting when I lived in the Seattle area and
have compared notes with people that are still living there. This is a really
large issues even if you don't try this. While there are many things to be
done, I think the first two would be: 1) learn how to properly clean mold
problems (borax, not bleach) and 2) a dehumidifier nearly eliminates all mold
problems and gives off heat.

~~~
roel_v
" 1) learn how to properly clean mold problems"

That was one of the parts that made me go %O most - when you live in a house
where the internal climate is such that it will let mold grow, _it 's
downright unhealthy to live there_. It's like saying 'yeah driving while drunk
is dangerous, you'd better have a box of band aid laying around in your car
for when you get into an accident'. Uh no, don't drive while drunk, eh?

~~~
thaumasiotes
> when you live in a house where the internal climate is such that it will let
> mold grow, _it 's downright unhealthy to live there_

Why do you believe this?

~~~
DanBC
[http://www.cdc.gov/mold/dampness_facts.htm](http://www.cdc.gov/mold/dampness_facts.htm)

> In addition, in 2004 the IOM found sufficient evidence to link exposure to
> damp indoor environments in general to upper respiratory tract symptoms,
> cough, and wheeze in otherwise healthy people and with asthma symptoms in
> people with asthma. The IOM also found limited or suggestive evidence
> linking exposure to damp indoor environments in general to shortness of
> breath, to respiratory illness in otherwise healthy children and to
> potential development of asthma in susceptible individuals. In 2009, the
> World Health Organization issued additional guidance, the WHO Guidelines for
> Indoor Air Quality: Dampness and Mould. Other recent studies have suggested
> a potential link of early mold exposure to development of asthma in some
> children, particularly among children who may be genetically susceptible to
> asthma development, and that selected interventions that improve housing
> conditions can reduce morbidity from asthma and respiratory allergies, but
> more research is needed in this regard.

Whether that counts as "downright unhealthy" is up to you.

[http://www.euro.who.int/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/78636/Da...](http://www.euro.who.int/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/78636/Damp_Mould_Brochure.pdf)

~~~
thaumasiotes
It seems worth pointing out that the last 75% of the text you quote amounts to
saying "we couldn't document these risks, but we'd like to warn you about them
anyway". The first part links mold to (1) symptoms you'll recognize if you
have them, in healthy people, and (2) asthma, in people with asthma. This is
not a strong case for environmental mold being dangerous.

------
vacri
Why not use the reptile heater instead of the incandescent globe? Having a
light shining right in my face would end the experiment in minutes.

~~~
mrb
This is a great point! Infrared heat emitters produce less visible light,
therefore more heat than a light bulb of comparable wattage.

~~~
TheLoneWolfling
Umm...

Assuming you are not producing any EM radiation at frequencies that go through
the skin of your house (radio, X-ray, visible light through the window, etc),
_any_ resistive heater will produce the same amount of heat.

Because guess what happens when EM radiation is adsorbed? It turns into heat.
Any EM radiation.

------
HelloMcFly
I take a more middle-of-the-road philosophy in my house, with primary reliance
on space heaters for room-by-room heating. Why do I care if the kitchen is
72°F at 2pm while I'm working at my desk in my office?

------
nkozyra
I live in Florida.

This entire discussion is bizarro world for me. It costs nearly $400 a month
to keep my house at 74deg in the summer.

~~~
_delirium
I live in Copenhagen, and it's also bizarro world for me. :) But mainly
because electricity is very expensive here, whereas district heating (hot
water produced by municipal plants, which you can draw through your radiator
if you'd like) is quite cheap. It would be hard to beat the costs of district
heating using a space-heater approach, even given better spatial concentration
of the heat.

~~~
lucb1e
Wait a minute you get hot water from the pipe instead of heating it yourself?
That's interesting.

~~~
PhantomGremlin
This is a wonderful benefit of living in a big city. E.g. Con Edison in New
York supplies steam to commercial buildings.[1] Back when they generated
electricity "locally" in each borough, the steam was almost free for them to
generate as a side effect. But now they actually have to pipe steam under the
East River.

But I no longer live in NYC. I don't miss the rats or cockroaches or traffic
or air pollution. C'est la vie.

[1]
[http://www.coned.com/newsroom/energysystems_steam.asp](http://www.coned.com/newsroom/energysystems_steam.asp)

------
moron4hire
When I was a kid, we were rather poor. My parents scrounged together to buy a
computer for the family, and I started to get interested in programming. But
my parents were fearful I'd break their computer (not in a "don't be
programmin'" way, but definitely in a "please be careful" way). And then a
friend donated a computer to me. And I set it up in my bedroom. And I had my
first comfortable winter in that house that year.

Of course, it made summers unbearable. But for the most part, I was used to
heat.

------
yxhuvud
Good grief. If you live in a country that gets cold, learn to insulate your
houses better.

Seriously, it is that simple.

/lives in a country where triple windows are standard for all new buildings
intended for people.

~~~
Shivetya
I live in a larger house, being single any house is overkill but I went a bit
beyond because of pricing and location. As such I have three bedrooms and two
baths where the vents are kept closed. This does mean they seal completely so
in winter the rooms can hit the 50s (F) on a below freezing week.

You don't need to live in a cold climate to want good insulation, it can save
a bundle in hot climates too if your a fan of extreme AC; think 72F that some
I know live by. I do the ceiling fan method, 78F and a nice big ceiling fan in
every room.

~~~
newman314
You might want to read this.

[http://www.familyhandyman.com/smart-homeowner/energy-
saving-...](http://www.familyhandyman.com/smart-homeowner/energy-saving-
tips/save-energy-by-closing-heat-registers/view-all)

------
mangecoeur
An interesting approach - though for contrast, a well built passivhaus or low
exergy design can achieve similar savings or even net positive. At a cost,
true, but at much greater convenience. I feel having to do this is basically
admitting that our houses are terribly engineered. And yes, with this kind of
system you get problems with damp and mold which can have some pretty serious
health impacts.

------
raverbashing
Yes

Most people want "summer inside the house" which is absurdly wasteful

Of course, it sucks when changing clothes or taking a shower, but there are
ways of heating locally.

~~~
balfirevic
I don't know how people's desires can be "wasteful". I find that "summer
inside the house" during winter is absolutely wonderful from the comfort
standpoint and certainly wouldn't trade it for the saving that I would get on
electric bill.

Of course, I realize that many people don't care for that. More power (and
smaller bills) to them.

~~~
jlebar
> I don't know how people's desires can be "wasteful".

In a world where people paid for the true cost of their energy use, this
argument might fly. But in most of the world today, this isn't the case, not
by a long shot.

If you heated to "summer inside the house" and bought high-quality carbon
offsets corresponding to your increased energy use, I think most people
wouldn't call that "wasteful". "Warm" might be the adjective I'd use. :)

~~~
XorNot
In a world where people paid the true cost of their energy usage, there
wouldn't be an absolute deluge of houses built by terrible contractors with
terrible insulation on the market, where the biggest, best and cheapest energy
saving measures weren't put in when the house was built.

I want summer in my house during the winter. This should be an explicit goal,
because you can't get there by just cranking up the heat since it doesn't deal
with draughts and the like. If this were a recognized goal, then everyone
would be better off in every way.

------
willholloway
Energy is abundant, there is no need to shiver in the cold. Solar forced warm
air is inexpensive, simple technology that is very underutilized.

Solar photovoltaics get all the attention, but solar warm air/water is less
expensive and simple to manufacture.

[http://sunmatesolarpanels.com/content/view/2/31/](http://sunmatesolarpanels.com/content/view/2/31/)

~~~
roel_v
But you can't power a computer on PV. I don't think anyone who knows something
about energy efficient heating suggests PV to warm a house electrically, it's
too inefficient.

~~~
jtheory
Not my comment you're responding to, but it's not talking about PV for heating
(that'd be kind of ridiculous, honestly).

Systems for heating water/air using solar can be quite inexpensive as well;
converting light to heat is rather easier than converting it to electricity.

E.g., I've seen cheap pool-heating systems that just pump the water through
wide flattened black pipes exposed to the sun and send it back into the pool.
Voila, solar heating!

~~~
roel_v
Yeah my second sentence was a non sequitur, but my point was: you can only do
a little with solar/water heating. Yes heating a pool is one of those things,
but that's a very niche application. This thread is about heating a house, or
at least about being comfortable in one, and solar/water is just not a viable
technology for that in the vast majority of cases.

~~~
jtheory
Oh... you said "PV" in both sentences, which is specifically converting light
to electricity; that's what threw me.

For heating a house with solar (not PV) -- it would depend on insulation
level, I'd imagine. I do know people who use it for "most of the time" water
heating, with good results.

------
voidlogic
>In June of 2010 I moved to a place in Montana with only electric heat.

Living that far north and depending on one heat source is crazy! Think about
the power going out when its -30 out... or if you used gas, running out or
having your furnace break down.

(Not to mention electric is usually the most expensive way to heat). Most
houses where I live have 2 or 3 heat sources. I have wood, LP and electric...

~~~
stormbrew
I live in the northernmost large city in Canada (where we get -40C pretty
regularly for a while in the winter) and every apartment I've ever lived in
has only one heat source, and usually it's either electric or water pipe.

If your power goes out long enough for all the heat to leach out of your
apartment or house you probably have some serious problems with either the
electric company or your insulation.

~~~
cbhl
Heh, last Christmas the power was out for about two weeks at my parents'
house, which uses electricity to push the hot air generated by our gas furnace
through the house. It was -25 C.

Granted, I might not have had to go to the hospital if we had gone to a
warming shelter earlier than the sixth day. (My father is rather stubborn, and
it damn near killed me. When I got out of the hospital, I left the house and
paid for a hotel room in a part of town where power had been restored.)

------
ck2
My cats are my micro-heaters. Zero extra power use in winter :-)

~~~
lucb1e
Tell that to your cat food bill ;)

------
p_eter_p
A similar approach works in hot climates. A friend of mine saved a substantial
amount of money by getting an efficient portable AC unit for his bedroom, and
shutting off the main air conditioner for the house at night. In a southern
summer, the savings add up quick.

~~~
sargun
How does he purge the heat?

~~~
kimmel
I have a portable air conditioner but it is not as portable as you would
think. It is about 2.5 feet tall, sits on nice rolling wheels and has a small
exhaust and fitting so you open your window and put the pipe end in place to
vent the heat. You do not have to mount it in the window which makes it
portable. I can move it from room to room and it only takes about 2 minutes to
setup the fitting.

------
brusch64
This reminds me a little bit of a company I've visited.

They cooled the office so much in the summer that some of the people in the
office (I'd say 5 out of 20) used electric heaters under their desk to warm
their feet.

------
sbierwagen
Tom Murphy has done a couple of blog posts on this exact thing:
[http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2012/04/heat-those-
feet/](http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2012/04/heat-those-feet/)
[http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2012/05/burning-
desire-f...](http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2012/05/burning-desire-for-
efficiency/)

------
dmritard96
This is a cool approach and actually there is some federal research money
available for it. [https://arpa-e-foa.energy.gov/](https://arpa-e-
foa.energy.gov/) (third one down)

"DELIVERING EFFICIENT LOCAL THERMAL AMENITIES (DELTA)"

We ([http://www.flair.zone](http://www.flair.zone)) were looking into grant
funding and saw it. All I could think of was heated/air conditioned underwear
lol.

------
smallegan
I have often wondered why we don't all sleep in heated pods (bubbles). All of
the wasted heat to keep houses warm at night drives me nuts.

~~~
yxhuvud
All the heat wasted due to bad insulation drives me nuts. Solve the real
problem and inconvenient solutions like the one you suggested disappear.

------
Donch
Number one link on Hacker News is an article stuffed full of Amazon affiliate
links for personal heating products. Something isn't right.

------
staunch
Kotatsu tables really are great. Some pictures here if you haven't seen them:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kotatsu](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kotatsu)

Unfortunately even a cheap table in the U.S. is more expensive than it should
be. There's an opportunity for someone to create kotatsu tables and things
like them for the American market.

~~~
jrockway
I think the problem is Americans don't want to sit on the floor.

Which is strange, because carpet is more comfortable than tatami.

~~~
anon4
Probably because of their habit of wearing outside shoes inside the house,
making the floor too dirty to sit on.

------
bce
A similar project is being done by the Senseable Cities Lab at MIT:

Local Warming: [http://senseable.mit.edu/local-
warming/](http://senseable.mit.edu/local-warming/)

Video:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-6i6owLMQk](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-6i6owLMQk)

------
jmadsen
Very much the "philosophy" of heating here in Japan; heaters for single room,
heavy futons on the bed with no heater, kotatsu, foot warmers, etc.

Comes from old, leaky wooden houses, but idea is the same. Lot of bad habits
here still, but heating the upstairs guest bedroom all winter long isn't one
of them

------
sdhsdh
There's some academic work on this, too:
[http://www.cbe.berkeley.edu/research/personal-comfort-
system...](http://www.cbe.berkeley.edu/research/personal-comfort-systems.htm)

------
cjensen
Given that he uses electric heating, it's pretty funny the electric company
wanted him to switch to florescent. That buys you nothing in those months
where the heater is on.

What I'd really like to know is: why not switch to gas?

~~~
maxerickson
He mentions homesteading at the end. I guess he doesn't have a natural gas
supply available. Propane and fuel oil aren't the completely obvious win over
electric that natural gas is.

~~~
jessaustin
We haven't found natural gas on the retail level to be any less expensive than
propane. Perhaps it depends on where you live.

~~~
maxerickson
I'm talking about utility supplied natural gas vs truck delivered liquid
propane in the U.S. I'm pretty sure the natural gas is consistently cheaper
(frequently to the tune of 50%, my experience of it is in northern areas where
the propane trucks are busy all winter).

------
lutorm
This is why changing out incandescents for CFL's in a heated house does almost
nothing for saving energy... and if the heat comes from electricity, nothing
for saving money, either.

~~~
mangecoeur
Wrong. Does plenty to save energy. Reasons:

\- for half the year, you don't heat but you still light, so you automatically
gain savings for that whole period. (also if you have air conditioning, in
summer you heat the house with lights then have to cool the air again) \-
Lights are on the ceiling. Hot air rises. Therefore heat coming from lights
does almost nothing to improve your thermal comfort. \- If you are heating
using gas rather than electricity, it is far more efficient to heat air with
energy from the gas boiler than from the electric lighting

~~~
ams6110
What's the energy cost of making a CFL bulb vs. an incandescent? Also since in
practice they don't last a lot longer, and are annoyingly dim for the first
few minutes, and are considered an hazardous waste when you need to dispose of
them, why does it make sense to replace a $0.50 bulb that has none of those
issues with a $5.00 bulb that does?

~~~
roel_v
CFL is crap, use LED lights. Last 20x longer with 1/20th the energy use.
Replacing incandescent with CFL is a wash, replacing them with LED is a no-
brainer.

~~~
tempestn
Much more attractive too, if you prefer a redder (more like incandescent)
light indoors. Modern LED bulbs are really good.

~~~
jpindar
You can get LED lights in a variety of color temperatures. You can even get
ones like my Phillips Hue bulbs whose color can be adjusted remotely. They
aren't cheap but they're a lot of fun!

~~~
tempestn
For sure. I just meant that if you prefer bluer light, you can get that with
CFLs, but they can't give you the 'softer' light that we're used to from
incandescents, while LEDs can (if that's your preference).

------
ChikkaChiChi
Three ladies at my company campaigned heavily for those heated keyboards a few
years ago. One shorted out within the first month and the other two stopped
functioning within a year.

------
nly
I just let my computers get dusty and run CPU intensive tasks.

------
rrss1122
Cut out the personal electric heaters and you save even more.

I just wear a sweater as my personal heater. Heater only comes on for
visitors.

------
benjamincburns
The idea of a heated keyboard is a little gross to me. Seems like it'd
encourage bacteria growth.

~~~
eru
Your keyboard will have the same temperature in summer as the heated one does
in winter.

------
Lapsa
Micro haters cut 87% off my electric heat bill

------
dharma1
hot water bottles work pretty well. Probably more effective than constantly
heating up air. Water is a good storage of heat

------
lukasm
I wonder what's the home efficiency.

------
neves
You just can't go the bathroom.

------
icantthinkofone
You can eliminate the need for an electric blanket by just getting a down-
filled blanket. In a normally heated house, I would actually sweat under one.
You can buy them in a "half down" style, which would be cooler, but, if the
point is to allow you to turn the heat down, down blankets are the perfect
thing.

------
seamusabshere
best. hn. ever.

------
jeffjia
Let's just have Nest...

------
jondiggsit
Just install radiant heat everywhere in your house ya cheap bastard

------
jebblue
I was really caught up in this story and the effort involved until ... "I
wonder if these techniques caught on, could this reduce or eliminate US war
for oil?" and then "If I wrote this article 20 years ago might we have never
gone to war with Iraq?".

Iraq was _not_, repeat, NOT, N O T, about oil. Iraq was about stability, about
a nut case leader who terrorized and killed his own people, who let his sons
terrorize people. It was about all the terrorists caught who had evaded
worldwide, WORLDWIDE authorities for decades in many cases, found hiding out
in ... Iraq.

Hussein disregarded Bush elder, Clinton and Bush junior, covering 3 US
Presidencies, both major US political parties. He shot missiles at the very
ally planes charged with making him keep his army at bay.

He plotted to kill the very US President (Bush elder) who forced him to back
out of Kuwait:

[http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-
srv/inatl/longterm/iraq/tim...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-
srv/inatl/longterm/iraq/timeline/062793.htm)

~~~
jtheory
Voted down, then responding in case you don't know why: this is a discussion
about micro-heaters.

Yes, it's a bit disagreeable to run across even minor, aside comments that
disagree with something you believe strongly, but please just deal with that
on your own time.

Because of course _your_ comment will be unpleasant for people to read who
feel just as passionately that _you 're_ wrong, and some of them may be
compelled to post wall-o-text comments here to rebut your claims.

Here, in this discussion about micro-heaters.

~~~
jebblue
PS, this, "Voted down, then responding in case you don't know why" is passive
aggressive.

~~~
jtheory
Sorry, it's not the intended vibe -- people complain when they're voted down
w/o explanation, so I'm trying to avoid that.

I mostly want to improve future discussions, not scold/shame people; my own
posts aren't always on-topic and informative, though I like the goal.

