
Is long-term solitary confinement torture? - 6ren
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/03/30/090330fa_fact_gawande
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salemh
I have personal experience with interacting with those in / coming out
(temporarily (going out for court) and permanently (being transported to a new
facility after 7+ years of Solitary Confinement)) on solitary confinement. We
ARE social creatures. We cannot survive on our own (I hypothesize we need
Friends, Family and Lovers...if you have Two, you can survive emotionally).

These people are turned into schizophrenics, tattooing their faces, painting
walls with feces (if you are offended, please research the effects of solitary
confinement).

Solitary confinement inmates go Insane. To what degree, depends on the
duration and the person. As a deterrent, it is warranted and probably (no
statistical info) effective in the short term. As a long-term "treatment" for
rehabilitation, it is NOT effective.

If we are in fact, trying, to rehabilitate criminals into society, solitary
confinement just creates a dangerous creature.

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rdtsc
> If we are in fact, trying, to rehabilitate criminals into society

Apart from superficial lip service I don't think we are trying to rehabilitate
anyone. It is plain and simple punishment.

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Andys
I think its unfair if you're being held without charge or trial. If you've
been sentenced, it might be cruel punishment or even torture but at least you
can accept your fate.

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maw
Assertions such as those in the first paragraph are offensive -- as though we
introverts weren't real or normal humans. I don't know from first-hand
experience, but as bad as solitary sounds, being confined with other people
sounds even worse, given how my brain is wired.

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sliverstorm
I am an introvert myself, but even us introverts interact with other people
daily. If you voluntarily spend days on end utterly alone with no human
interaction, you're unusual even for an introvert

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maw
Sure. But if it came down to lots of time alone or lots of time with forced
contact, which would you pick? They both sound bad to me (what do you expect
from being incarcerated?); the baked in assumption that what's bad for most
humans is bad for all humans is what bothers me.

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fossuser
Even this text based communication on HN is a form of human interaction. I'm
not sure complete isolation is something anyone is genetically predisposed to
prefer.

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j_baker
Not really relevant to your point, but introversion vs extraversion most
likely isn't determined by genetic factors. It's essentially a choice (albeit
one that was made at such a young age that it's impossible to change).

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wwortiz
Some of Harry Harlow's _experiments_ were really... fucked up.
[https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Pit_of_despai...](https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Pit_of_despair)

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6ren
> when six-month isolates were exposed to younger, three-month-old monkeys,
> they achieved "essentially complete social recovery for all situations
> tested."

[https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Harry_Harlow#...](https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Harry_Harlow#Partial_and_total_isolation_of_infant_monkeys)

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Kudose
Forced seclusion on any being that naturally seeks contact alters the mind and
is therefore a form of torture.

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smallblacksun
What an idiotic statement All forms of punishment and/or rehabilitation
"alters the mind", they are not all forms of torture.

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jellicle
If it wasn't torture, the United States wouldn't be doing it to Bradley
Manning.

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alanh
I love this kind of fallacy :) _Edit: Misread the parent post (too many
negatives!)._

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zoomzoom
What fallacy?

