
Korean Fan Death - tomasien
http://istommydrunk.svbtle.com/sudden-fan-death
======
andrey-p
Ah, good old ingrained gut knowledge. I know a bit about that.

I'm an ex-pat from an Eastern European country, currently living in the UK.
Where I come from, there is a subcurrent of racism that pretty much everyone
has. I've heard all the standard ones: "[ethnic group]? You _know_ what
they're like" and "[religious group] are all [stereotype]. Oh, [a good
acquaintance who is the only member of said religious group this person
knows]? He's all right, yeah, but he's an exception."[1]

These come in the form of gut feelings that you somehow know are true, and
when you're presented with evidence to the contrary you just assume it's an
exception to the rule. Even if you _objectively_ know these gut feelings are
incorrect, they're still hard to dispel because they're so deeply ingrained.
It's stuff that's taken me a while to shake off.

What I'm trying to say is: challenge your gut responses to stuff. It'll make
you a better person.

[1]: These are almost verbatim quotes from people who are otherwise fairly
open-minded and progressive.

~~~
gregwtmtno
It's funny that you're assuming that these people's statements are the
exception to the rule and they're otherwise fairly open-minded and
progressive. It seems like you're being presented with evidence to the
contrary.

~~~
pc86
Presumably the word "otherwise" means if you disregard those closed-minded and
non-progressive facets.

------
serialx
> Every fan in South Korea has an automatic shut-off feature - you can’t even
> buy a fan that will run all night. Impossible to purchase.

This statement is simply not true. I live in South Korea and I always run it
all night in summer.

~~~
LukeFitzpatrick
Hey serialx, I live in SK too, if you ever wanna grab a beer or coffee, shoot
me an email: lukejamesfitzpatrick@gmail.com

On Fan Death, the media bought it all up and publicized it on TV, naturally
most South Koreans believe it. They are super conscious about anything related
to health (even though smoking and binge drinking is quite common here).

If I have a cold, my wife (Korean) will tell me to go to the hospital. I grew
up with not taking medicine unless it's absolutely necessary.

Back on topic, It's more of a culturally thing. I wouldn't bother trying to
explain to people that it's not real, focus on feeling amused about the
cultural difference.

Likwise, I'm from Australia, in my hometown (small beach town), I could walk
to the local convenience store wearing no footware, no tshirt - just boxer
shorts. To Korean people, they'd think I'm insane..... Just trying to
highlight the differences in culture; seeing the humorous side of things is
often better than trying to persuade someone they're wrong.

~~~
cafard
Wait, boxer shorts?

I used to see "No Shirts, No Shoes, No Service" on American stores. But as far
as I know, few Americans walk around the streets in what is actually
underwear.

~~~
LukeFitzpatrick
Mind you, I did this when I was a teenager, I'd be shy to do it now.
Appearances didn't really matter where I was from. Mostly Rugby guys, surfing
ppl and tradesmen from my small town. Nobody judged you by appearance. I've
never seen so much designer ware until I lived in Korea. But, fan death does
have a cultural stigma here, and appearances matter. It's really hard to
change someone's belief on fan death. So, it's better just to feel amused by
the difference in culture.

------
tartuffe78
I've heard fan death is cited in cases where suicide or overdose is the true
cause, and families don't want to admit it to themselves or others.

~~~
peeters
I had thought the same. And if true the author is mistaken; believing in it
(or rather propagating it) _does_ offer something in return.

------
serve_yay
> I know fan death isn’t real, it’s ridiculous of course…… but you know it
> does happen sometimes right?

> cultural mythos is so powerful that it can make people believe things they
> know to be untrue without even offering them anything in return.

The situation is even worse, unfortunately. This is called fetishistic
disavowal: "I know very well, but...". Not only does it take the form of
protecting obviously false beliefs (as with fan death), but it can also
function as a way of disavowing what we know to be true.

Many of us know the world is facing a set of worsening crises
(environmental/social/economic) but continue to live our lives as if this is
not the case. I don't mean those who, for example, dispute the truth of global
warming, I am speaking of those who know very well it is true but do not do
anything.

The philosopher Slavoj Zizek often repeats a story about the astrophysicist
Niels Bohr. While a friend was visiting Bohr's country home, they asked why a
horseshoe was placed above a doorway, a common good-luck superstition
practiced in Europe and elsewhere. Bohr's reply: "of course I don't believe it
works, but I was told that it works even if you don't believe in it." Many
beliefs in modern times work in this way.

~~~
thaumasiotes
[http://komplexify.com/math/humor_pure/UrbanLegends.html](http://komplexify.com/math/humor_pure/UrbanLegends.html)

> [Paul Adrien Maurice] Dirac had a horse shoe over his desk. One day a
> student asked if he really believed that a horse shoe brought luck.
> Professor Dirac replied, "I understand that it brings you luck if you
> believe in it or not."

further reading: [http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/10/09/horseshoe-
luck/](http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/10/09/horseshoe-luck/)

------
mebassett
"fan death" is certainly a possible phenomenon. it works similar to a
convection oven. The US EPA even warns against fan death, though not calling
it that.

[http://askakorean.blogspot.co.uk/2009/01/fan-death-is-
real.h...](http://askakorean.blogspot.co.uk/2009/01/fan-death-is-real.html)

and

[http://www.epa.gov/hiri/about/pdf/EHEguide_final.pdf](http://www.epa.gov/hiri/about/pdf/EHEguide_final.pdf)
pg43 and appendix B

this comment totally misses the point of the article. but I was sufficiently
amused to learn about "real" fan death that I thought it was worth sharing.

~~~
giarc
>The TWG also strongly recommends that, as part of a public education program,
cities emphasize that portable electric fans are not the simple cooling
solution they appear to be. Because of the limits of conduction and
convection, using a portable electric fan alone when heat index temperatures
exceed 99°f actually increases the heat stress the body must respond to by
blowing air that is warmer than the ideal body temperature over the skin
surface (American Medical Association Council on Scientific Affairs, 1997;
CDC, 2004c). In these conditions, portable electric fans provide a cooling
effect by evaporating sweat. The increased circulation of hot air and
increased sweat evaporation can, however, speed the onset of heat-attributable
conditions (e.g., heat exhaustion).

Appendix B also warns you about the extreme dangers of a fan.

~~~
raverbashing
So, "fans kill" when the temperature can do that all by itself...

------
josu
There is a pretty popular expression in Galicia (Spain)that sums up this
perfectly:

"Eu non creo nas meigas, mais habelas, hainas"

Which roughly translates to: _I don 't believe in witches, but they are out
there_

------
marine7
_This is one of my favorite phenomena because it underscores a basic human
emotion: being 100% confident that something is not true, yet simultaneously
unable to escape the feeling that is can’t be completely untrue._

This sounds a lot like my OCD. I'm an atheist, I don't believe in a "higher
power." And yet, I feel compelled to do certain things a certain number of
times all because well, "it can't hurt, and just in case." I wish I could
explain it better but that article is exactly how I feel about my OCD.

------
jdarrow
Holy sheep shit batman. This story freaks me out. I did not know this was a
wide spread thing in Korea.

I had an argument with my wife about this subject years ago. She is from S.
Korea and I am from the US. She had yelled at me because I left a fan on and
fell asleep. When she got home from work and realized what happened she
freaked out and told me I could die that way. At the time I remember thinking
that she was absolutely crazy to believe this was possible. We argued for a
long time about it and at the time I remember questioning her sanity,
repeatedly. Eventually she dropped it and admitted it probably was wrong of
her.

Every once in a while this strange superstitious stuff pops up with her. I
love her deeply but it is not easy being married to a South Korean. :-)

~~~
jrs99
I feel for you. As a Mormon who has been on missions to Korea, I can without a
doubt say they are the most gullible people on the planet. They believe in
some crazy stuff.

~~~
pavel_lishin
This questions is probably going to come off as sounding kind of tongue-in-
cheek, but I gotta ask: does that make your job easier? Does their
'gullibility' mean that they're more open to new ideas (which would presumably
make things easier for you), or just that their _current_ set of beliefs seems
crazy to you?

~~~
jrs99
It did make my job easier. But so did the overall politeness in the culture.
That's part of being gullible. It's that a large part of it is associated with
politeness and willing to hear someone out.

------
danohuiginn
Superstitions about drafts are bizarrely common. Bosnians, for example, tend
to be terrified of "propuh", or cross drafts. If you leave windows open on
either side of a building, you risk any malady up to and including paralysis.

I find it hard to understand how such beliefs get started, or manage to remain
so prevalent.

~~~
Avalaxy
In The Netherlands (not sure if that's specified to my country or to people in
general) I often hear people saying that you shouldn't go outside without a
jacket when it's cold, because it will make you sick...

~~~
ceejayoz
That one's actually probably correct. [http://www.nature.com/news/cold-
viruses-thrive-in-frosty-con...](http://www.nature.com/news/cold-viruses-
thrive-in-frosty-conditions-1.13025)

> A team from Yale University in New Haven, Connecticut, found that low
> temperatures dampen natural defences against rhinoviruses, the leading
> causes of seasonal colds, in mice and in human airway cells.

~~~
nerfhammer
Is that the air temperature or body temperature? Your body thermoregulates and
won't change temperature based on what you're wearing until you're
experiencing hyper/hypothermia

------
FiReaNG3L
I always thought it was to leave their society a way to honorably explain
suicides?

~~~
function_seven
I thought that, too. But how can it be honorable to fall asleep with the fan
still running? If that's a deadly thing to do, then it seems like that would
be the same as idling your car in a closed garage: still suicide.

~~~
pavel_lishin
I thought that the belief was that running a fan all night was dangerous, not
guaranteed to kill. So in that sense, it would be more like getting drunk and
being hit by a train - not exactly a smart move, but possibly a better
alternative than suicide.

------
yongjik
Most younger generation Koreans probably don't believe in it any more. I've
seen the myth discussed several times (including at least one newspaper
article).

Korea is a very well connected country: some of us do read the English
wikipedia.

Also, I kinda like timers in electric fans (though it's been years since I
used one): there's no need to blow wind when you're asleep. Sure you wouldn't
die, but you might catch cold or find yourself awake at 4 am because your
limbs are uncomfortably cold.

(My parents probably still believe in fan death, though.)

Finally, as someone below said, "you can’t even buy a fan that will run all
night." is patently false. Every fan I can remember has a "run indefinitely"
position.

~~~
mhurron
> you might catch cold

No more than leaving rags laying around will give you an infestation of mice.

> there's no need to blow wind when you're asleep

Except to keep the room at a comfortable temperature.

~~~
yongjik
Well, I hope you know that a fan cannot lower room temperature...

~~~
mhurron
Stationary air is not comfortable.

------
dubfan
Does anyone else find it strange that the author uses an article that
uncritically repeats the Rolling Stone UVA rape hoax as an example of
dispelling myths? Doublethink indeed.

------
doki_pen
There is obviously no such thing is ghosts. But I challenge you to go into a
spooky old house at night with no lights and not be scared of ghosts.

~~~
scrollaway
It's odd how being scared of something makes you believe that _everyone_ is
scared of it.

There's a significant amount of people who _don 't_ actually get scared of
"spooky old houses". Just like there's some people who don't get nervous when
a giant spider is on their hand. Or when they're talking to a crowd. Or when
they're on top of a cliff.

I'd certainly be nervous in a "spooky old house" but certainly not for its
ghosts. I do despise spiders for one thing.

~~~
jrs99
you make a good point. And I also certainly would not be afraid of ghosts in
an old house. I would be afraid of the unknown and unfamiliar places.

but at the same time, what is interesting to me, is that most of us can get
scared by horror films or movies about ghosts. so if you get scared by a ghost
in a movie, could that mean you believe, at least for a moment, in ghosts? or
would it simply mean that IF ghosts existed, you would be afraid of them.

~~~
scrollaway
I'm no psychologist but if I were to take a stab (pun intended) at a theory
about horror movies, it would more likely to be about empathy with the main
characters and not wanting them to die, coupled with the suspension of
disbelief that comes with watching the movie.

------
gear54rus
> Even believing in ghosts or vampires offers the chance to escape into a
> reality where anything is possible, even if that reality is terrifying. Fan
> Death, however, doesn’t offer anything.

Doesn't it have more to do with better safe than sorry human mentality? You
barely think about something positive when staring at a completely dark
hallway and your brain starts to draw you scary pictures.

------
tootie
I know Korean guy who has a PhD in Biology and believes in fan death. The
minds ability to delude itself is amazing.

------
dsugarman
>However, buying into a myth created by the culture to which you belong
apparently doesn’t require extra incentive.

The extra incentive is that you don't die. You don't have to believe the myth
to do a cost analysis in your head. Many people who don't believe in god will
turn to god in dire situations.

------
harryjo
Ask a Korean wrote a few articles on this, the most authoritative on the
Internet. (Don't be put off by the URL)
[http://askakorean.blogspot.com/2009/01/fan-death-is-
real.htm...](http://askakorean.blogspot.com/2009/01/fan-death-is-real.html)

~~~
spacehome
It's not as though the URL inaccurately describes his position. After a lot of
talk about pseudo-science, that's his position.

------
tomasien
I feel like there's a small misunderstanding here: I'm not criticizing Koreans
here. I'm sure their understanding of this is more nuanced than I'm describing
from second hand accounts. I just think it makes an interesting parallel.

~~~
jrs99
Well if, like you say, all koreans believe that a fan "chops up" air molecules
(maybe they all believe the blades of fans chop up CO2 into CO) then they
really need to be criticized. I agree with you that its an absolute shock that
they believe this. It is definitely one of the crazier beliefs a modernized
population can have, and I admit that I believe a staff can be turned into a
snake.

------
benmarks
Curiosities of human/social behavior such as this amaze me until I think about
all the people across multiple cultures who feel compelled to respond in some
manner when someone sneezes.

------
lukasm
Due to cultural shame of suicide they choose to blame fans as a cause rather
than autoerotic asphyxiation.

------
Alex3917
Has any actual research been done on this? I don't see why people think it's
obviously false.

~~~
kalleboo
Quoth Wikipedia: "There are no verified cases of the alleged phenomenon"

There's also the fact that this phenomenon has never been observed outside of
South Korea. People around the world sleep indoors with fans on every day.

~~~
Alex3917
> There are no verified cases of the alleged phenomenon

You could say the same thing for SIDS, but most people in the west accept that
it exists.

> People around the world sleep indoors with fans on every day.

Then surely some of them must die in their sleep, so it shouldn't be that
difficult to do a study.

It's one thing to say that no research has been done to study whether people
who sleep under fans are more likely to die in their sleep, or to say that the
South Korean belief is unjustified given the lack of evidence, but to say that
it's 'obviously false' strikes me as being a little bit racially tinged.

~~~
theseoafs
So we ought to do a study on all cultural superstitions just so we don't seem
racist? Why don't you conduct the study on fan death, and I'll take care of
the study to see whether Bloody Mary is real?

------
donpark
Fan death is not really belief but more healthy respect for the Unknown and
avoiding unnecessary risk.

~~~
danbolt
I was thinking similar thoughts about this when reading the article!

Or, part of me thinks that while you know it doesn't make sense, you don't
lose anything by being careful about the fan. I think the people in Korea
mentioned here are playing Pascal's Wager but with household electronics.

------
thekylemontag
Fan death is one of the funniest case studies of companies creating hysteria
in order to sell more units.

Once everyone has a fan, how do you get people to buy more fans? Make them
think their current fans will kill them, and sell more expensive fans with
improved ‘safety’ features.

Well played Korea, well played.

~~~
scrollaway
You got any actual sources to back up this conspiracy theory?

------
ch8230
'what else have we been convinced to give up without getting anything in
return?' My time to read this article for one.

------
nemonemo
I am from South Korea, and I know this fan death thing could seem
superstitious, but as another comment pointed out, it is a cautious approach
toward unknowns, in addition to mass version of confirmation bias. (News
reports a death with a fan on -- oh, that scary scythe of the fan..)

But who knows? There could have been a death that could have been prevented by
turning off a fan, and nobody can verify its nonexistence. My attitude toward
this is like my agnostic attitude toward God: I just can't know its existence
or nonexistence. And I think what the people in the article are expressing can
be understood in a similar line (though 100% is an overstatement.)

Still I sometimes argue with Koreans with relatively less background in
scientific thinking about scientific things like if fan deaths are possible,
or using metal spoons for yogurts kill more microbes than plastic spoons, etc,
but many times, my conclusion is that I just can't have any conviction about
either ways.

