
Panic’s Next Editor - whalesalad
https://panic.com/next/
======
simonhamp
Coda was one of my favourite apps when I first got a Mac. It was such a fresh
experience when compared to the dry utilitarian stuff that was available on
Windows at the time.

I believe that Panic will create a beautiful product and they have many
supporters who will happily pay a license fee - I know I will!

But it’s not going to be an easy ride. There’s a lot to live up to here and
they will need to have some killer features thrown in at the beginning.

The hardest part tho will be to make it an approachable tool that can hook the
hobbyist but keep them on when they need more. I dropped Coda for a number of
reasons, but it wasn’t because it wasn’t a great code editor.

~~~
PunksATawnyFill
What “visual CSS editor” are they talking about? I have Coda 2, and remember
wishing it had a visual CSS editor like Espresso’s.

Coda also suffered from persistent and potentially damaging bugs, like the
failure of its project-files pane to open the “home” directory specified for
your project when you opened the project. Instead, it apparently just showed
whatever directory it last navigated to.

~~~
Cenk
Coda 1 had a pretty sweet visual CSS editor, it was dropped in Coda 2.

------
azhenley
It looks promising. But I'm not sure what features it could add over VS Code
for me. I also worry that it won't have the hackability of Electron-based
editors. (Before anyone complains about Electron performance, I haven't had
any issues in that regard.)

I do academic research on code editors.

~~~
sathomasga
Maybe I'm just an outlier, but as a front end developer, one of the _last_
things I want to do is spend time hacking my tool chain. What gets me excited
is delivering new features and better UX to my users. Even a minute spent
worrying about my development environment is a minute taken away from what
makes me happy. Truth be told, my main complaint with VSCode and atom isn't
really the non-native performance of Electron, but all the effort required to
tweak, configure, keep plugins updated, replace outdated plugins with the
latest and greatest, etc. Seems to be a microcosm of the entire front end tool
chain these days. (First it was npm, then yarn, then back to npm; jasmine, no
jest, now karma; LESS, SASS, postCSS; Babel, no webpack, what about parcel;
etc.)

Even though my current work is all Vue and Angular, with a backend that's
little more than a REST facade for MongoDB, I still find Coda to be the best
development environment available, and I continue to use it all day every day.
Considering how strongly Coda was originally tied to the then-dominant LAMP
stack, I think that's a pretty strong testament to the product. (Or perhaps
just a testament to my stubbornness.)

I won't buy the next version of Coda sight unseen, but it's hard to imagine
what Panic might do that would keep them separated from my money.

~~~
bobbylarrybobby
What are you talking about? What tweaking? You just install extensions and
they’ll auto update. You only need to configure things when you don’t like the
default behavior. I haven’t touched my VSCode configuration in ages.

------
sxates
Figma has killed the whole 'native mac' benefit in my head. It runs faster
than native competitor Sketch, and it does it on any platform, in a browser.
Would be amazing to have that kind of portability in a dev environment. But
I'm interested to see what they've come up with!

~~~
anderber
100% agree, I would to see a Figma for code.

~~~
reustle
People already have VS Code running in the browser, so I don't think it's a
stretch to see official support (or a fork) for highly responsive editing in
the browser.

~~~
anderber
I meant using Web Assembly, not just web technologies:
[https://www.figma.com/blog/webassembly-cut-figmas-load-
time-...](https://www.figma.com/blog/webassembly-cut-figmas-load-time-by-3x/)

------
Octoth0rpe
It's hard to take them seriously when they make claims like this:

> Twelve years ago we introduced Coda, the world’s first web development
> editor.

It's hard to come up a charitable definition of 'web development editor'
(inbuilt css editor? browser preview?) that wouldn't likely cover Dreamweaver.

~~~
dangerface
IIRC The first web browser (Mosaic) was able to edit websites.

------
_bxg1
The hardest part will be keeping up with the rapid clip of today's web without
the backing of an open source community writing extensions in JS itself.
Supporting the babels, TypeScripts, and Flows of the world as they pop up with
only an in-house team will be difficult.

~~~
kumaraman
They mention they're not trying to be the biggest code editor, and I think
they have a fighting chance against Webstorm.

Also they can create a plugin system similar to Sketchapp that exposes a
JavaScript API.

~~~
dmitriid
How can you have a chance against WebStorm by not being the biggest editor?

WebStorm _is_ IntelliJ Idea. It’s a full IDE with capabilities beyond that of
a simple code editor: code analysis (for multiple languages), smart
refactoring (for multiple languages), extensive plugin support, an extensive
range of support for anything from eslint configs to understanding things like
“oh, it’s an Angular app, let me help you connect all the pieces together”,
etc. etc.

------
mmanfrin
I really liked Panic's products, but I really did not like their approach to
dealing with a person they didn't like playing their video game (they used the
copyright system to take down videos of a streamer playing their game, which
is in my eyes a deep abuse of the copyright system).

I don't care for the person they targeted, but I care for the casual abuse of
a system that is already hurting content creators.

~~~
deanCommie
> a deep abuse of the copyright system

Actually...
[https://twitter.com/vanaman/status/906984704892477440](https://twitter.com/vanaman/status/906984704892477440)

~~~
skrebbel
Actually.. it's bullshit. If playing a game online infringes the game maker's
copyrights, then playing a guitar online infringes the guitar maker's
copyrights.

~~~
pseudalopex
A guitar isn't a copyrighted work.

~~~
skrebbel
Its design surely is. Musical instrument making is part craft, part art.

~~~
cowsandmilk
Generally not, at least if it is produced in any quantity. Typically, they are
protected by design patents and industrial design rights.

As an example, in Canada, if you produced less than 50 of an item like a
guitar, you could copyright it. Basically this is intended to cover an artist
making sculpture. If you are making it for utilitarian purposes to be widely
distributed, you use the other methods in the law for protecting your designs.

~~~
dangerface
How does that apply to music cd? More than 50 are made but still music
conglomerates still abuse copyright.

------
ivyirwin
I'm super excited by this announcement. Yes, I'm a Panic fanboy and have been
since I first used Transmit over 15 years ago. I've long since moved away from
Panic software – as the development process changed I didn't feel like their
solutions were as relevant anymore. But that's what excites me about their
announcement – they're admitting things have changed so much that an
incremental release won't cut it, they have to go back to the drawing board.
And when they do that, great things happen.

There's a lot of skepticism in the comments about the size of the undertaking
and their ability to produce something significantly different in a crowded
market. Isn't that what we all do to some degree? And I would argue they have
a proven track record of doing that repeatedly (with some flops mixed in as
well). Transmit didn't invent FTP interfaces, but the ease of use and speed
were head and shoulders above the existing clients. They're getting some flack
for their claims about Coda, but it really was a giant step forward over
existing editors at the time.

One of the reasons I've always liked Panic is that they dog food their
products and it shows. They have always been at the edge of web design and
development (including the controversial margin on this page) and that comes
from building and using an advanced toolset. Can't wait to see what comes
next.

------
rayiner
> That’s a fair question. Many of our competitors are free, and we really rely
> on, well, revenue.

After a decade on Mac, I finally bought a Windows laptop. The think I miss
most is the quality software. Apple users are willing to pay for software, so
you have great apps like Scrivener, OmniFocus, Coda, etc. But the culture of
“free” has overrun Windows, and for the most part, it’s a disaster. There is
no revenue potential in many areas of software, especially B2C software, and
it shows in a lack of quality.

~~~
ericabiz
I also switched from Mac back to Windows recently, and am curious what you're
missing.

Scrivener is available for Windows (though I use Hemingway.)

OmniFocus has many web-based alternatives...I use Trello, personally. (It's
also a Windows app now!)

Coda -- well, there's Sublime Text, VS Code, or JetBrains' universe of IDEs.

This isn't a critique of what you said, by the way. I do think more info about
what you're looking for would be great insight for the folks who read Hacker
News -- some of whom might be willing to develop paid Windows apps if there's
true demand in those areas.

~~~
rayiner
Scrivener is a second class citizen on Windows (e.g. no version 3 yet.) The
money is clearly on Mac.

There is really no good OmniFocus alternative on Windows. Most are too simple,
or more focused on coordinating teams than having lots of tools for an
individual juggling lots of things. E.g. Todoist (and many other web apps)
doesn’t have proper sub-tasks. Almost none has a proper review mode.
MyLifeOrganized is really good, but it lacks the polish of OnniFocus. (Likely
because it has a much smaller team than Omni, because Windows users aren’t
willing to pay.) Trello is great for what it does, but its calendar
integration is an afterthought.

Stuff is a little better on the developer tool side, where there is still a
willingness to pay for stuff like Jetbrains. VS Code though is a good example
of how free products are worse (less features, Electron, etc.) than paid
software (Visual Studio).

~~~
justin66
> Scrivener is a second class citizen on Windows (e.g. no version 3 yet.) The
> money is clearly on Mac.

I wonder if they've ever published a breakdown on Mac vs. Windows users or if
you're just making that up? They've stated they spend more on Windows
development, although they evidently aren't getting enough out of it.

------
andr
Interesting that they chose to compete on Mac, instead of iPad, as they could
have easily commanded the majority of the iOS market share. Coda had some of
the best support for editing directly on remote servers, and this would fit
the iPad usage model quite well.

~~~
reaperducer
There’s already a Coda for iPad and iPhone.

~~~
Pulcinella
iOS Coda is honestly, embarrassingly bad. It takes like 6 or 7 taps to start
actually editing a document and it still doesn’t sync files between devices.
An app that is proud of how “native” it is doesn’t support iCloud (or Dropbox,
or any other syncing) in the year 2019.

~~~
reaperducer
I've used it for emergencies a few times, and you're right that it's a bit
cumbersome to get going. But I've never had a problem with syncing between
iPhone, iPad, iMac, and MacBook Air.

I'd also like it to use iCloud for sync. Panic explained a little bit about
why it uses its own platform in a blog post I found recently, but it was kind
of vague.

------
shereadsthenews
Not sure how they can claim with seriousness to have written the first editor
for web development.

~~~
alekratz
I thought this too. What about dreamweaver?

~~~
eridius
Did Dreamweaver support all stages of web development, including uploading to
your server? I think that's what Panic is talking about here, how Coda was
your one-stop shop for everything, including deploying your site.

~~~
reaperducer
My memory of Dreamweaver was that it didn’t do databases or FTP.

It may have added those features later, but I only used it back when .shtml
“sheetmetal” was the state of the art.

~~~
kbenson
I consulted for clients in early 2000 that would use "publish" in Dreamweaver
to FTP (and maybe even SFTP[1]) upload their site, from what I recall.

1: I don't remember whether it was FTP over TLS or SSH FTP. You might assume
the former, but this was a very weird age for file uploads, and I remember
being surprised more than once...

------
chaostheory
The real competition may be WebStorm.

~~~
ajmurmann
I'm very partial to JetBrains IDEs. To me it's either a great IDE like the
JetBrains products or a great text editor like emacs or vim. I never really
understood the folks moving from TextMate to Sublime, to Atom and as of late
VSCode.

Is it really the low barrier of entry that comes with free and low learning
curve? We spend so much time as professional developers with these tools that
dropping a few bucks on a IDE or spending some time developing good vim or
emacs skills seems like a obvious investment. These lighter editors seem like
a low investment, low return choice.

~~~
mercer
I don't think low learning curve has much to do with it (for most of us). I
also don't think these light editors are 'low investment, low return' choices.

It's all part of a continuum. With Emacs often more on the side of IDEs, and
Sublime more on the side of text editors.

For me and many others, text editors have been preferable over IDEs for all
sorts of reasons, but we do like a lot of the features that IDEs offer. To
some extent that's been solvable through plugins, but for many VSCode in
particular hits the sweet spot of being a text editor that has a bunch of IDE-
like features as first-class citizens on top of the many extensions available.

The success of VSCode really highlights why these 'light editors' are so
popular, I think. Unlike IDEs, it doesn't offer you every possible feature
under the sun in a confusing, often slow package and interface. But unlike
Vim/Sublime/Emacs, it _does_ offer sensible defaults, and well-integrated
'core' plugins that most developers will want anyways. And through various
plugins we get vim keybindings and many of the other features of IDEs too.

It's a bit like the framework/library discussion. The best approach is usually
"it depends", but in my experience, for my editor needs, a minimal framework
is the sweet spot. I don't want Rails, but I also don't want Express.js.

(I really want Phoenix, actually, but that's not relevant)

------
danso
I applaud a new commercial application bringing competition to the editor
field. But does anyone else think that building exclusively for Mac is a risky
strategy? I’m a diehard Apple user and hope I never have to compute in an era
when Apple still isn’t producing Macs. But even I see the writing on the wall
that Windows is becoming more and more developer-friendly, with VS Code and
cross-platform Sublime vastly reducing the friction in moving from MacOS to
Windows. Even if the new Coda was heads above the pack, I would be very
reluctant to put money and learning/muscle-memory time into a new app that
could easily go the way of Textmate after a couple of years.

~~~
whalesalad
Walk into any coffee shop in America and you'll see every hacker inside using
a Mac. One or two odd ducks will have some kind of nix ultrabook setup. Even
here in SoCal you can go into a Philz and see 5 people coding on a Mac w/ VS
Code and Slack open at some time or another.

So I don't think targeting macOS is by any means a bad idea. Based on the echo
chamber that is HN you'd think everyone was jumping ship to Surface tablets
and WSL but it's really not as common as you think.

~~~
nfoz
> Walk into any coffee shop in America

I consider Dunkin Donuts a coffee shop, which drastically changes this
picture.

~~~
uncletaco
I concur. Though anecdotal I catch a buddy of mine frequently when I drop by
Dunkin in a rush and he usually is on a windows laptop watching some esport or
getting in some MMO time before work.

------
smoyer
"First web development editor" \- not by a long shot!

------
aficiomaquinas
I actually loved Coda back in the day. One of my coworkers still uses it a
lot, but his entire workfow depends on editing code on smallish production
sites via (S)FTP. I find that approach fatally flawed for modern front-end
and/or not-so-small projects. I really wouldn't go back from my Webpack +
Production CI/CD to editing live websites. Many of the performance
improvements needed to achieve very fast websites these days depend on tasks
that belong more to the CI/CD than to your local development environment. For
instance the generation of critical CSS and webpack's production build, which
is slower if it includes the JS and CSS optimizations. Finally, a
deterministic (or as much as possible) process to upload the changes to
production. I find Sublime Text better as an editor for that kind of front-end
workflow and there's quite some good extensions I've favored throughout the
years that don't exist in Coda. I'm curious and optimistic about this new
Panic editor, let's see how it goes!

------
bluegreyred
I enjoyed Panic's polished applications since way back when but the way they
simply drop paid for apps with an existing userbase due to "lack of revenue"
(Status Board [1], Transmit on iOS [2], Unison [3] and Audion [4]) really left
a sour taste in my mouth.

Transmit for iOS was a particularly big loss for me, so much so that I
personally am going out of my way to avoid their products.

[1] [https://panic.com/blog/the-future-of-status-
board/](https://panic.com/blog/the-future-of-status-board/)

[2] [https://panic.com/blog/the-future-of-transmit-
ios/](https://panic.com/blog/the-future-of-transmit-ios/)

[3] [https://panic.com/blog/the-future-of-unison/](https://panic.com/blog/the-
future-of-unison/)

[4]
[https://www.panic.com/extras/audionstory/](https://www.panic.com/extras/audionstory/)

~~~
eps
They also pulled original Prompt from the AppStore because, apparently, it
completely impossible to rebuild it for the x64 target.

"Luckily" it was replaced by Prompt 2 that was basically the same thing
slightly improved (but "rebuild from the ground up" for reasons unknown) that
you had to buy afresh.

That was not nice.

------
hartator
Definitely looking forward to the release. Love Sublime and VSCode. But both
still miss something.

~~~
azimuth11
Care to elaborate?

------
deca6cda37d0
I will buy it on day one.

------
thomasfedb
Love the syntax highlighting theme in the screenshot. Anybody know what it is
called?

~~~
mosdl
looks like material ui colos

------
genmon
Reading between the lines, looks like they were paid for the name?

> And then, incredibly, a new Coda arrived on the scene — a reimagined
> document at coda.io — and we reached an agreement to let them have the name.

And the email newsletter has a strong "last chance to buy" call to action so
maybe there's a time limit on how much they can market around it?

Not saying this like it's a bad thing: a new name makes good strategic sense.
If it also makes commercial sense because, so much the better.

Here's the new Coda name-holders: [https://coda.io/](https://coda.io/)

~~~
doh
I've never heard of them before (coda.io). Seems like they raised a lot of
money [0] and are generally competing in the space of airtable [1]. More
surprising, coda.io is still free and has no pricing [2]. I get that they are
in land grab, but I would be afraid to put my work on a platform that can come
out anytime and charge essentially any sum of money.

[0] [https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/coda-
add7](https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/coda-add7)

[1] [https://airtable.com](https://airtable.com)

[2] [https://help.coda.io/faq/pricing-for-
coda](https://help.coda.io/faq/pricing-for-coda)

~~~
mercer
Not to mention that the lock-in is much bigger with Coda.io than it is with
Airtable.

------
z3phyr
If my memory is correct, wasn't Microsoft Frontpage old when something like
Coda appeared? Given I do not know what Coda is as compared to another all in
one app for web development..

~~~
balac
It was, as was Dreamweaver. Their point may be that those were WYSIWYG editors
primarily, whereas Coda was a more pure "editor".

~~~
dagw
HomeSite and CF Studio where both more text based 'IDEs' and also predate Coda
by a decade.

------
BenoitEssiambre
Scrolling down that page seriously made me feel dizzy and nauseated.

~~~
TecoAndJix
I loved it!

------
erickj
I've never heard of Panic. I've never heard of Coda. I don't develop on a Mac
and I'll likely never be in their target audience.

But reading this product announcement gave me a real feeling for the genuine
care and quality that these people put into their work that I'm curious enough
to figure out a way to try their product. As banal as another editor might
seem to some, the care of craftsmanship that this post exudes is refreshing.

~~~
azimuth11
The post feels good because it is mostly just smoke and mirrors. They’re
talking about a lot of problems and offering no products or solutions.

------
nodesocket
Coda was my primary editor up until around 2011 when I switched to Sublime
Text. The built in FTP/SFTP transfers was a really big time saver and key
feature. Things have changed quite a bit since then in the editor landscape,
curious to see what comes.

I primary do DevOps today, and I think if their new editor implemented some
DevOpsy features could be huge selling point. Remote SSH and running commands,
terminal integration, git integration.

~~~
mattlondon
Ssh, terminal, git integration etc sounds precisely like what vscode offers to
me.

Good luck to them, but I don't think vscode is doing well because it is free.
It is genuinely a very good editor.

~~~
millstone
VSCode is a good editor, but it's very much in the JS-camp of stuff sort of
works once you've fought through configuration and dug through SO.

Also it's manifestly un-Mac-like in noticeable ways. For example it's hard to
know if I've saved a file, because Command-S doesn't highlight the menubar, no
matter how many times I press it. Basic Mac features, MIA.

I'm ready for something that just works, so you'll find me camping outside
Panic's digital store.

------
benfrain
VS Code has some good features and rapid iteration but it is slow. Slow to
start, slow to render pages when you switch tabs.

Sublime Text may not have BBedits ability with massive files but for 99% of
the time it is lightning quick and rock solid.

As such, I think a natively coded Mac editor could nail the requisite speed
but also enjoy some novel features beyond the spartan default environment of
Sublime.

I’m looking forward to it.

------
wishinghand
Until an editor starts integrating some of the features of aneditor that Gary
Bernhardt talks about here[0] I won't believe any talk of a "new" or "next
step" editor.

0: [https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/a-whole-new-
world](https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/a-whole-new-world)

~~~
bch
Nice, but I think I can raise you. That talk mostly seemed pretty predictable
(though I incorrectly guessed gfx via sixels[0], not a(nother) terminal
emulator). If your interest _was_ piqued with that parent video though,
prepare to have your mind blown with this[1], who’s thesis maybe similar in
the sense of “stop _just_ simply working”. Bernhardt seems to be saying don’t
be afraid to take time and think deeply and “go deep”, while Victor is
explicitly saying make it count by way of targeting with intention what’s
important to you. A sort of “fight the good fight.”

[0]
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixel](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixel)

[1] [https://youtu.be/PUv66718DII?t=625](https://youtu.be/PUv66718DII?t=625)

------
tobr
Happy to hear from Panic about this. I used to use Coda all the time and loved
it. I can’t be sure that I will switch to using whatever this new thing is,
but I’m confident that it will be lovely, as nearly everything Panic makes.

Somehow the letter feels very defensive, like someone accused them of being
hopelessly behind and having no chance to ever be relevant again.

------
codequeen
I'm really curious to see how they will compete with VSCode. I hope they'll
let us make plugins for it.

~~~
apsdsm
I believe it was possible for Coda, so optimistically I would hope so.

~~~
chipotle_coyote
Coda does support plugins. (So I hope Thing After Code does, too!)

------
rado
Using Coda since 1.0 all day every day. 'Next' also looks great.

------
AJRF
Doubling down on a mac only editor seems super weird. At a time when Apples
actions seem like they are de-prioritizing the line, Panic are going all in?

It would seem a better investment to make the go to IDE-y thing on iPad Pro.

~~~
F30
Panic's experiences on iOS have been somewhat unsatisfying:
[https://panic.com/blog/the-future-of-transmit-
ios/](https://panic.com/blog/the-future-of-transmit-ios/)

It seems that (at least up to January 2018) the market for (relatively
expensive) pro apps on iPad is just too small.

~~~
coldtea
Depends on the pro apps.

In the age of iCloud, Dropbox, and 200 other services and alternative ways to
move stuff, why would one want to use a FTP client (like the Transmit above)
on the iPad?

The market for FTP clients is small enough on the desktop...

(Heck, I'm a developer, I have a Transmit license since 2006 or so, I work
with dozens of remote machines, and seldom ever use it. It's either sftp on
the command line, or something like an Ansible wrapper etc).

~~~
milgrim
Transmit on iOS is not only a FTP client and I never used it for that. The
integration into the iOS share sheet with SSH file transfer support is perfect
for me and I use this all the time. Are there any reliable alternatives that
are still actively developed?

~~~
coldtea
Yeah, I know, I have a license for it on OS X. It also does SCP/SFTP/S3 and
others. But in the end it's still a pretty limited offering, for special cases
(geeks wanting to use the iPad for administration or development, for
example).

Not the kind of mass market app the general iPad users would buy en masse.

------
bdefore
I'll tip my hat to Panic for the humility and respect towards existing Coda
users by going with a new name. I'm not sure how many those amount to today,
but it's a kind gesture.

------
nvr219
transmit gang

------
rvanmil
Very excited about this. Let's see if they can beat Sublime :)

------
allan_
Sooo, native apps are `hyper responsive` these days, made me LOL.

------
revskill
One question: Is there any way to drop a file in the project, when clicking
it, the editor will open new tab, which is the terminal ?

I'm using VScode, i don't know if there's an extension for that yet.

~~~
azimuth11
I don’t understand the question or its relevance to the post. What are you
trying to do?

~~~
revskill
I want to open new editor tab as a normal terminal.

------
throwaway400
Hopefully they will support the LSP.

------
besulzbach
Even if I don't plan on using this anytime soon, competition is always
welcome.

------
dagw
I'm sure their products are great, but what kind of hubris and/or complete
lack of historical perspective do you have to have to write this with a
straight face:

"Twelve years ago we introduced Coda, the world’s first web development
editor. It put the tools you needed to make a web page together in one app,
and nobody had ever done that before."

------
shawxe
Am I the only one who is made extremely uncomfortable by the bizarre diagonal
margins on the linked page?

~~~
atrilumen
Haha, it's a little skewed.

    
    
        section {
          transform: skew(-2deg);
        }

~~~
hombre_fatal
Clever with the <section>'s gradient border-image. I love collecting these
sorts of stylish landing page gimmicks.

~~~
KitDuncan
Do you have a link to some more?

------
matchbok
Yes please! Let's drop this electron crap once and for all.

~~~
morganvachon
I'm not a developer but I use an advanced text editor (Notepad++ on Windows,
Geany on everything else) for the little bit of webdev I have to do at work
and on side jobs. I've tried every Electron based editor out there, for all
the major platforms, and they are always so damn slow and unresponsive
compared to a native app.

~~~
ScottFree
Same here. And yet, nobody I've worked with over the past 2 years feels
Electron based editors are slow or unresponsive. I'm not just talking about
kids who have never used anything else, either. Some of these people have been
programming since the 80s.

It's like some people are sensitive to latency and some aren't.

I've also been told it's impossible to tell the difference between 60hz and
144hz. I can tell. I know this for a fact because my hackintosh will
occasionally "forget" and switch my monitor back to 60hz when I wake it up
from sleep. I notice immediately.

~~~
morganvachon
I'll admit I feel the difference more on my work machine (i5-2400, Windows 7)
than my home workstations (i5-6500, Antergos Linux and Slackware Linux). It's
definitely there though. Slack is another offender; we use it at work and our
few remaining Core 2 machines and AMD A10 machines are brought to their knees
with the Slack Electron app. Those users tend to launch it in a Chrome or
Firefox window and leave that running.

I can also pick up on different refresh rates, and I was extremely sensitive
to it on CRTs back in the 90s and early 2000s. I had to run at least 75Hz on a
CRT or I'd have too much "shimmy" in the image and would get a headache in a
few minutes of work. 60Hz on an LCD doesn't typically bother me unless its
grey-to-grey response time is poor, and produces ghosting. Even with that I
don't seem to get headaches from LCDs.

