
Where’s the Next Silicon Valley? VC Is Betting on the Midwest - teklaperry
https://spectrum.ieee.org/view-from-the-valley/at-work/tech-careers/wheres-the-next-silicon-valley-this-vc-is-betting-on-the-midwest
======
nimbius
Born and raised in the midwest here, and the article has done well to cherry-
pick a relatively liberal spot in an otherwise conservative state. The same
could be said of the Carolinas and the infamous research triangle park.

I left the midwest for the west coast because of the culture, full stop. I was
tired of my state representatives writing my sexual preference off as a
disorder. I was angry when the state decided a pharmacist could refuse to sell
me birth control and I hated the legislative decree that tried to exert
control over what gender got to use the bathroom or not. In short, I did not
want to live in a state where the legislature had nothing better to do than
fight the culture war to win votes for the next election. Yeah, I cant buy a
house in san jose, but at least I dont have to worry about the ten
commandments showing up at the DMV in stone or some toothless anti-shariah
legislation burning through my tax dollars.

Drive 15 miles outside Columbus and it doesnt matter how many VC firm
employees you have in the city, the bible thumpers win this state by a
landslide of gerrymandering and arent ashamed to force their backwoods culture
on you from the hinterlands. The midwests relationship with silicon valley
terminates at the facebook, google, and twitter HTTP connection for a damn
good reason.

~~~
entee
I think a whole lot of the divide we see is not state/region based but city
vs. rural. See how many quite conservative congresspeople CA sends to the
house, many of which just voted on a bill that will increase taxes on many
Californians, especially those who live in the big cities. The bay area
sprawls out pretty far but drive into the Sierras or up north and it's a
different story. Trump won Placer county (aka area around Lake Tahoe) by
51-39%. Further north, he won Lassen county 70-20%. This in a state where
Hillary won and the legislature is roughly 2/3rds Democrat.

I see no reason the cities in the midwest couldn't host a tech boom, and over
time start to turn the cultural tide as a result.

More globally, this divide makes me sad. I have trouble thinking these people
who hold views I find quite wrong are bad people, but it seems somewhere our
national conversation has broken down completely. Sometimes maybe for good
reasons, but still it's quite depressing.

Edit: typo

~~~
lurr
> I have trouble thinking these people who hold views I find quite wrong are
> bad people

Even when we are talking about people who support stomping on the rights of
others because of something as private as sexual orientation?

~~~
Helmet
You do realize that massive swaths of the population in virtually every single
country in the world are not accepting of homosexuality (1)?

Are all of these people "bad"? Of course not. There is simply a cultural
disconnect, and some ideas die hard.

(1) [http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/06/04/the-global-divide-on-
hom...](http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/06/04/the-global-divide-on-
homosexuality/)

~~~
logfromblammo
I am acquainted with one very churchy person that admitted to cutting off all
contact with a friend of theirs after that person came out.

Yes, that does make them a bad person, and that makes it impossible for them
to be more than just an acquaintance to me. And it also makes their religion--
or at least their personal interpretation of it-- a bad religion. My imaginary
friends don't get jealous of my real friends, and if yours ever do, you might
want to consider pretending to break with them instead of turning on your real
friends. It's up to you to determine if your imaginary friends have ever
actually prevented you from making a real friend.

Ethical development has come a long way over the last 5000 years, but even the
semitic monotheist religions have all had "That which is hateful to you, do
not do to others," for the last 2000. And yet the faithful still put their own
hateful words in the mouths of their gods or their prophets for the credulous
to hear and repeat. They do it for money and for status, and care little for
the consequences.

It is wrong. We can explain its wrongness with ethical treatise, and
demonstrate the wrongness with game theory and Monte Carlo methods. Private
behaviors of any sort are fundamentally unsuitable as discriminators in public
life. To the extent that they leak, only that portion that is visible to the
public should ever matter.

~~~
ThrowawayR2
> _My imaginary friends don 't get jealous of my real friends..._

> _And yet the faithful still put their own hateful words in the mouths of
> their gods or their prophets for the credulous to hear and repeat. They do
> it for money and for status, and care little for the consequences._

To be honest, that attitude doesn't sound any more enlightened or tolerant
than the attitude of the person that was being described.

~~~
logfromblammo
Yeah, I'm not a very likeable person. People don't like me, and that suits me
fine, because I'm not too fond of them either. Things might have been
different if I hadn't so often been on the receiving end of so many spiteful
kicks, but there it is; experience taught me not to trust strangers, and to
not rely on others for anything important, including just doing the job they
get paid to do.

At least I know that about myself. I don't have to pretend to be a "good
person", and can just be a "barely good enough person". I won't judge you if
you don't judge me.

If you're my friend--and I do actually have some, shockingly enough--I won't
turn my back on you because I don't think you measure up to my standards. It's
more likely I'm just avoiding you because I don't think I can measure up to
yours, and I'm ashamed and embarrassed of things I have said and done in the
past. I can't even imagine how someone could cut someone else out of their
life just for _being homosexual_ and still know what friendship means. That
person would definitely do exactly the same to me if they ever realized I was
atheist, so we can't be friends, ever, even if they thought they wanted to be.

I just can't bring myself to tolerate the intolerable.

------
adamw2k
As someone born and raised in the Midwest (and who takes great pride in that)
now leading a company in SF, the difficulty truly isn't lack of capital, it's
lack of _founder_ talent (and ideas). People with big ideas that can inspire
the best technical leaders to join their crusade. There are plenty of great
schools (Michigan, Purdue, IU, ND, U of Chicago, Northwestern, Rose Hulman,
Depauw, U of I, and many more) churning out folks that are hungry to work hard
and get ahead. What's missing is a sufficient population of 25-45 year old
inspiring founders with enough of a nest-egg to take a big risk, willing to
put a hold on family life, and with a big idea.

There's a second problem that comes about when these rare combination of
things come together - which has to do with cap tables... In that good teams
get pummeled on early stage valuations compared to the coasts, resulting in
exits that return far less to founders than investors (and thus stunt "the
ecosystem" growth that exists in SV), but this is secondary to above IMHO.

~~~
zzbzq
Nah. The second thing is the main thing. Your first point is just the typical
SF exceptionalism narrative that has been touted by the Bay VC startup
ideology for the last 20 years.

The sad truth is, it's not a coincidence that so many of the biggest economies
in the world are built inside of self-perpetuated real estate bubbles. Pockets
of land trapped in by ocean and mountains. There's a feedback loop involved in
companies that get big enough to own their own buildings, their companies'
continued growth drives up the value of their real estate which they can re-
finance for easy loans.

There's plenty of people who think it makes sense to take the startup culture
to cheaper areas like the midwest or Austin. And they "succeed" in founding
profitable startups. But they'll never create the next great thing,
specifically because the big companies in big cities didn't succeed in spite
of their higher costs, but because of them.

I think if I wanted to move silicon valley I'd look for some cheap semi-
peninsular coastal city which is currently priced like a midwest city. Then I
would drive up that price. I've eyed Charleston SC as a potential target but
I've never actually been there to know if that makes sense.

~~~
exolymph
Silicon Valley exceptionalism has proved itself out pretty well, I'd say.

~~~
typomatic
This is an error called survivorship bias. You cannot evaluate the strength of
a strategy post hoc based on its success.

------
tankenmate
Unless the Midwest replicates California's laws on ownership of IP vis-à-vis
employment (i.e. it is illegal for companies to claim employee IP for work
done outside of work even via a contract), and that non compete clauses are
invalid it's at a huge disadvantage.

Without at least those two the Midwest don't even stand a chance.

~~~
batmansmk
Law is very important and I agree with you.

Perceived culture in the Midwest is also problematic.

USA is dependent on immigration to fill the science and engineering workforce,
which is one of the ingredients of SV revolution.
([https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R43061.pdf](https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R43061.pdf))
Someone denying there is no racism/xenophobia issue in the Midwest isn't
listening in my opinion.

My intuition is that the sex appeal of SV versus Midwest won't be compensated
solely by VC money. It will require a cultural change, which has been going
backwards those last 10 years imo. And that's why the author wrote this
article - not to inform us that Midwest is good, but because there is a real
issue in getting talents to the Midwest.

~~~
jonny_eh
It's for this reason that I think Canada (Toronto in particular) is better
positioned to see the most growth in tech outside of SV/SF.

~~~
johan_larson
How far down the list of top tech companies do you have to go before you come
to one based in Canada? You won't find one in the top 10. You might not even
find one in the top 50. If you're looking to bet on strength, that's not
promising.

For whatever reason, Canada seems to be able to produce a real contender only
occasionally. True, we had RIM and before that Nortel. But RIM is a shadow of
what it once was, and Nortel is long gone.

In tech, Canada is a backwater, and seems likely to stay that way.

~~~
jonny_eh
Shopify is the one big standout.

------
jedberg
I was recently having a discussion with the founder of a very successful
company. I was asking him how they got their start and their initial
customers. They were not from the Silicon Valley originally.

He said it was slow going at first, until they moved to the Bay Area and
started going to meetups. He said that meeting potential customers in person
was what really accelerated their initial adoption, far more than their write-
ups in the press or their "free customers" from their accelerator program.

My point is, that will be hard to replicate anywhere else for a long time. The
density of startups and the opportunities that presents will be hard to have
somewhere else -- it's a chicken and egg problem.

I had a friend who started a VC in Montreal. You know what happened as soon as
the companies got successful? They took a round from a VC in the Bay Area and
then moved here. They kept their dev office in Montreal for the "cheap labor"
but made their HQ here.

I suspect that is what will happen with these investments too. Most of the
companies will probably leave Ohio when they get successful.

And then they'll exit and have a bunch of money to invest where they now live
-- the Bay Area.

~~~
heymijo
You're right. There has been no fundamental change, either internal to SV or
external, to cause Silicon Valley to lose its status as the epicenter of the
technology world and the unparalleled access to capital that the region enjoys
[0].

Interestingly, Cleveland in the early 20th century provides a case study that
compares favorably to modern Silicon Valley. The key? Access to capital.

First, we have John D. Rockefeller and Standard Oil. Why did Rockefeller move
Standard Oil's headquarters from Cleveland to New York City? Two main reasons:
1) a concentration of financiers that he needed to continue to grow his
business and 2) oil was flowing to large port cities as the international
markets grew exponentially lessening Cleveland's importance in the network.
[1]

These were both rational reasons for moving and the second represented a
fundamental shift in the oil business.

A research article into Cleveland's entrepreneurial decline in the 20th
century points to a similar finding:

"Additional contributing factors may include the destruction of the
complementary financial institutions that had supported entrepreneurial
ventures in the region and changes in the regulatory regime that advantaged
New York and made it difficult for regional capital markets like Cleveland‘s
to recover their earlier vibrancy." [2]

In the early 1900's Cleveland was described as such:

"It was also an important entrepreneurial center, with well-developed, largely
informal, networks linking inventors to new sources of capital and to product
markets." [2] This sounds a lot like Silicon Valley and especially what you
describe in your comment.

[0] Yes, cases could be made that housing in the Bay area, unfavorable
immigration climate, increased competition from abroad, and even the
maturation of the current mobile environment represent viable threats to the
long-term entrepreneurial dominance of the Valley.

[1] Titan: The Life of John D. Rockefeller by Ron Chernow

[2] The Decline of an Innovative Region: Cleveland, Ohio, in the Twentieth
Century by Naomi Lamoreaux and Margaret Levenstein
[http://www.econ.ucla.edu/people/papers/Lamoreaux/Lamoreaux47...](http://www.econ.ucla.edu/people/papers/Lamoreaux/Lamoreaux472.pdf)

~~~
mycall
> There has been no fundamental change, either internal to SV or external, to
> cause Silicon Valley to lose its status as the epicenter of the technology
> world and the unparalleled access to capital that the region enjoys [

What about climate change and the impending major droughts in the next 5-10
years?

------
sidlls
I don't know what's more amusing: the thought that VCs think they'll get
_plentiful_ cheap labor in the Midwest (that's what this is really about) or
devs in the Midwest thinking VCs will bring SV-level wages and benefits to
them instead of saving on all that because "cost of living."

~~~
chiefalchemist
What's amusing is a legit VC thinking it's about devs. Technology is
(relatively) the easy part.

Critical thinking, finding problems, identifying opportunities, assessing
risk, "what if...?", product, UX, etc. That's where the magic happens.

~~~
walshemj
Getting a dev is fine but you want the dev that can execute and work in a team

------
tzhenghao
I work at a Drive portfolio startup. This is neither Drive's nor my employer's
opinions on this topic. There are pros for living here (lower cost of living
etc.), but I genuinely hate the weather here. I find every opportunity to be
out in SF during the winters. Oh and there aren't many meetups/conferences
here, which is a HUGE problem if you're looking to grow/network with people as
an engineer. People are generally skeptical and uninviting for newer ideas.
Hiring is difficult too. If given the chance, I'd choose Seattle or SF.

~~~
aantix
The lack of network reveals itself in subtle ways.

I'm at a tailgate, a curious friend of mine reveals that he was trying to
learn Ruby. I ask a couple very _basic_ questions, and I get looks of "not
here".

Anything too technical comes across as exclusionary. The nice thing about SF
is that every third person you run into is an engineer, so you never have that
social problem. In fact, you have the opposite problem of always defaulting to
"talking shop" with someone new.

~~~
cylinder
I really admire how engineers like to be around other engineers and share
ideas/knowledge rather than view them as competition.

------
forgotpassagan
The Midwest has crappy weather, and rich people as a rule don't like crappy
weather. This alone will prevent many investors from moving to the Midwest.

Geographically, Texas and the east coast near North/South Carolina are the
most likely places for the next silicon valley. Both are in proximity to large
population centres and have relatively good weather, cheap COL, low taxes, and
plenty of 'natural beauty' type things that rich people like. Hills, driving
distance to ocean, forests, etc...

I lived in the Midwest and IMO it's mostly cold flat and boring endless
farmland with little natural beauty and no access to large water bodies
outside of Chicago area. It also has high taxes and cost of living. Not really
anything attractive about starting business is there.

~~~
nightski
Hah! Minnesota has 10,000+ lakes and tons of natural beauty. We have a lake
cabin/home that we visit year round.

I LOVE winter here, couldn't live without it. Yes, I love the cold. Dress
properly and it is quite enjoyable.

I'm by no means "rich" but I make well into six figures in software and I love
this area and would find it hard to move anywhere else.

Occasionally I visit one of my clients that is in Silicon Valley. While
California is absolutely gorgeous in certain areas I find the highways and
dreary brown awful for the most part. The only time I really enjoy it is in
very early spring (Feb-Apr) when it is green for a short period of time.

~~~
ilikeatari
Before I moved to Minnesota (from Europe)I was very skeptical about this. But
my first trip to BWCA and North Shore, changed all that. Crystal clear lakes,
beautiful forests and prairies changed me for ever. If you are into bicycling,
Minnesota has one of the most robust biking trail systems.

Minnesota seems to be almost Scandinavian in some aspects and I do find it
absolutely beautiful.

~~~
cylinder
Minnesota is of Scandinavian heritage. Not sure if that's what you were
alluding to, but thought I'd mention in case you weren't aware!

~~~
chrisco255
I think they mean the nature seems that way, not the people that migrated
there. But, there's a reason those folks migrated there in the first place.

------
thevardanian
Where's the next Hollywood? This question has always been absurd to me.
Silicon Valley is here to stay.

~~~
santaclaus
> Where's the next Hollywood?

Georgia, it would seem. If being in New York isn't the key point of the show,
chances are it is filmed in Georgia nowadays.

~~~
jedberg
Filmed yes. But then where does the film go for editing, color correction,
adr, and other post? Hollywood. And then the executives screen it and then
it’s dostributed and all of that is in LA too.

The expensive parts have moved elsewhere (principal photography and special
effects) because it’s easy to transmit data, but all the stuff that comes
before and after still happens in Hollywood for the most part.

~~~
owenmarshall
> The expensive parts have moved elsewhere (principal photography and special
> effects) because it’s easy to transmit data, but all the stuff that comes
> before and after still happens in Hollywood for the most part.

So you'll concede that a strong cost play exists to move away, and are
basically betting that inertia maintains the status quo?

Good luck. ;)

~~~
jedberg
Absolutely. I myself run my company as fully remote for this very reason. But
I think I'm pretty leading edge in that respect -- most companies still
believe having an office is important.

------
unabridged
Remote only is the next silicon valley. Office space in a major city is a
luxury, and having to do all of your work 8 hours in a row at a specific time
is a waste of productivity.

~~~
cylinder
Don't underestimate the impact of the generational gap here.

As an 85er I grew up on IRC, AIM, Gchat, etc.

I just moved into my first management role. It only took me a few months to
realize I'm a better manager of remote staff than in person staff. I actually
prefer remote now. I'm not in tech nor am I someone who's considered socially
awkward or anxious at all.

------
SkyMarshal
The next SV is more likely to be China than anywhere in the US other than SV.
Massive amounts of capital + appetite for risk and experimentation + love of
technology + huge market. Just don't get on the wrong side of the CP and
you're golden.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
No way! China is basically a closed system. You can’t even give stock or stock
options to foreign employees if the company is not foreign.

Don’t get me wrong, there is a lot going on in zhongguangcun and Shenzhen,
it’s just mostly chinese startups employing Chinese, nothing like SV at all.

~~~
SkyMarshal
_> nothing like SV at all_

Seems there are different definitions of "SV". Mine is a geographic region
with the unique combination of ingredients for incubating new technologies
into valuable businesses and services that mature to some form of market
liquidity. Has nothing to do with where they hire their employees from.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
So a monoculture hiring Chinese employees catering to Chinese consumers. Why
should we even care then? Google and Facebook employ more Burmese employees in
SV than China does in all of its tech companies, guess what companies are
dominating the emerging internet sector in Myanmar, a country literally in
china’s own backyard? China’s Silicon Valley is an internal concern that has
nothing to do with the rest of the world.

~~~
SkyMarshal
_> China’s Silicon Valley is an internal concern that has nothing to do with
the rest of the world._

This is pretty short-sighted and naval gazing, but I cbf to argue it. I'll
just point out there are people with far more credibility than HN rando's
demonstrating with their actions the opposite of what you're saying. [1]

[1]:[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-04/cook-
kiss...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-04/cook-kisses-the-
ring)

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Actually having lived it for 9 years, I’m not speaking out of my arse.

------
patientplatypus
Honestly? Austin is probably already the next "Silicon <Noun>". We have like
160+ people net move here a day and it's a massive tech hub with UT Austin
here, Oracle building a big office here, some good coding bootcamps, etc etc.
Fastest growing city in the country several years running. Very liberal with
plenty of cultural attractions (SXSW, cafes/bars, "keep Austin weird" etc).
I'm guessing due to a combination of close cheap land (to build large logistic
centers), access to good highways, access to a port, generally permissive
state/business relationships, growing young demographic that Amazon will
_probably_ build their headquarters either in Austin or somewhere along the
Dallas/San Antonio corridor.

I mean, where else is there in the midwest? Illinois is dying under poor
governance and high taxes (pension obligations are constitutionally protected
until hell freezes over). Indiana and Ohio just don't seem prosperous. Maybe
Atlanta Georgia is the only other growing mid-size city outside of the coasts?

~~~
justin66
> Oracle building a big office here

Well...

~~~
patientplatypus
Well what?

~~~
acchow
2017 Oracle is just about the opposite of what we mean by "next Silicon
Valley".

Especially a satellite office.

~~~
justin66
Cleveland has an Oracle office. The sun shines brighter here now and the birds
sing a little louder.

------
stinky613
From a 2012 episode of The Office:

Ryan: “I’ve actually done a lot of market research and it actually turns out
that southwestern Ohio is going to be the next Silicon Valley. They call it
the Silicon Prairie.”

For those not familiar with the episode: the character is totally full of
crap; trying to explain that his reason for moving to Ohio has nothing to do
with his ex-girlfriend moving to Ohio. Funny to see "Ohio is going to be the
next Silicon Valley" come around again (but this time in actual news).

~~~
jonny_eh
There's no shortage of "X is going to be the next Silicon Valley". There's
seems to be about one a month.

~~~
stinky613
Oh, for sure. The funny thing here is that the line in 2012 was crafted to be
patently absurd.

------
chiefalchemist
Perhaps I'm mistaken but my impression is...

Silicon Valley isn't a pin on a map. It's a culture. It's a collective
mindset. It's a process. It's a high-tech Wild West.

It's also an outlier.

Startups + VCs !== Silicon Valley. It's more complex and more complicated than
that.

------
rglover
Please, no. It's still peaceful here. Stay in California.

~~~
irrational
You don't know what you're saying. They'll bring higher home prices, more
traffic, Californian politics, complaints about the weather, snide remarks
about how things are better in CA. What's not to love?

~~~
lazerpants
Just ask Coloradans, it's wonderful to have your state taken over by people
who don't share the same political culture, have far more money, and don't
care much about land use!

------
Mc_Big_G
I'm from Ohio and moved SF almost exactly 7 years ago. 8 plus years ago I felt
like a complete outsider the the business world. I'd been using linux since
redhat since version 2, taught myself perl, php and later rails and
javascript. I'd go to small business association "meetups" and events and talk
to people about a website I built that would allow non-developers to build
customized open source software packages like wordpress/oscommerce/phpbb and
have it auto-installed and hosted on a custom domain using ec2.

Even the successful tech investor there, who seemed more lucky than anything,
didn't have a clue what I was talking about or why anyone might want to do
that. I also went to the local small business offices seeking help and they
didn't get it either. If you weren't an automotive, manufacturing or physical
product company, they didn't take you seriously, didn't know what you were
talking about and didn't see value in anything computer or web related.

I also didn't really know anyone remotely interested in the web or linux
except one guy. If I had to sum it up I'd say that they're generally quite a
few years behind in everything from technology to civil rights. Finding good
employees will be hard but possible. Finding forward thinkers is going to be
exceedingly difficult. When I lost my job working on microsoft products at an
automotive logistics company, I gave up on Ohio and moved to SF. It was one of
the best decisions of my life. Since I moved it's been horrifyingly clear that
Ohio is in a downward spiral. I joke that I'd sleep on the ground in SF before
I'd go back to Ohio but I'm not entirely sure it's a joke.

------
sremani
The Next Silicon Valley will be in Texas, because I live here :)

That is wrong kind of thinking, but here is my 2-cent thesis, Tech has not
outgrown into such mature industry, you will have whole series of regions with
robust tech and venture economies, so in that sense there won't be one next
silicon valley, but a whole series of mini-silicon vallies.

------
bllguo
Wouldn't diversity be an issue in a place like Ohio? My perception of the
Midwest is that it's much more homogeneous and less inviting of minorities
than California. Consequently it might be hard to attract diverse talent to
relocate there.

~~~
pythonistic
This is purely anecdote, but I found Seattle to be significantly less diverse
than Cincinnati or Columbus. The larger cities in the Midwest tend to have
governments with goals that are hard to distinguish from any of the Democrat
controlled coastal cities.

~~~
irrational
Portland Oregon is officially the whitest city in the USA (goes back to those
early-mid 1900s laws that made it illegal to live in Oregon if you were
black). So, yeah, the PNW is definitely not the place to be if you are looking
for diversity.

------
poulsbohemian
I used to be a 100,000+ / year flyer as a consultant, plus I spent four years
in college in the midwest. I'm a white, straight, male, but most of the
country scares me to the point I have no desire to go outside the pacific
northwest any longer. I've never been treated so badly by TSA as I was in
Columbus, and I'm somewhat disappointed in myself that I did not file a
lawsuit. To think that anywhere in the midwest or the southeast could become a
prosperous center of innovation? Good effing luck with that. Oh sure, there
are pockets where this bank or that manufacturer will settle for a tax deal or
cheaper labour, but there's a big difference between that and the west coast
culture that enables breakthrough science and engineering.

------
rmason
There is only one Silicon Valley. It's silly to think otherwise, although it
seems to be getting recycled constantly by journalists and economic
development people.

It's high time however that startups become more popular in the Midwest. If
you are profitable, growing rapidly you can raise venture capital in the
Midwest. However that rules out the majority of startups. That's a big reason
that our best and brightest make the pilgrimage out West.

What we need to see are startup clusters, let the companies stay in place. In
Michigan it is starting to happen, but progress is still woefully slow. Angels
are in just as short supply as venture capital.

~~~
freehunter
>If you are profitable... you can raise venture capital in the Midwest

This is the number one biggest difference between Midwest startups and SV
startups. Even Basecamp said it, Midwest startups have to prove their
profitability on day one before any VC will pay any serious attention. Whereas
in SV, you can get money with just a team and a Powerpoint presentation.

Wonder why there are no unicorns from the Midwest? Because if unicorns made
money their valuation would be significantly lower. They're only unicorns
because no one knows how much they're worth, and everyone knows exactly how
much Midwest startups are worth on day one.

------
robbintt
This is cyclical news. It's an amazing marketing campaign for VCs. This is an
interesting armchair idea for lots of people, but absolutely inspiring for
people VCs are targeting to work for them and shoulder the non-cash component
of their risk.

------
jpao79
The key would be some fiber optic enabled always on teleconferencing pipe
which connected teams in Silicon Valley to teams in the Midwest. At this point
the differential for rents and cost of living between the two locales is high
enough that it would far surpass the Verizon Fios/Google Fiber monthly bill.

That said, my bet would be Fresno, Brentwood, Sacramento, Morgan Hill, Santa
Cruz, Monterey, Madera. California High Speed Rail is going to be a game
changer. Plus even today those locations are on the way to VC vacation
destinations (i.e. Yosemite, Tahoe, Monterey) which could then be expensed as
business travel. And they are in the same timezone.

~~~
kolanos
The only one I agree with here is Tahoe. No idea why more startups don't
operate out of NV.

~~~
seehafer
Nevada side of Lake Tahoe? Easy. No space.

Reno? Easy. No ecosystem, aside from specialized things (Gigafactory etc).

I would LOVE to start an accelerator type thing just over the border of SLT,
CA. But I would expect everyone would leave at the end of the it for a larger
metro.

~~~
intrasight
I agree with Reno. I actually think some good things are gonna start happening
there due to several positive aspects. It's a big enough city to have nice
cultural features. It has pretty good air connectivity. There's a younger
crowd arriving and opening restaurants and brewpubs.

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brian-armstrong
As someone who left the midwest for SV, I'm not looking to go back any time
soon. Going to the midwest is like getting in a time machine set for 40 years
ago.

You have so many good food and coffee options in SF. In the midwest? Hah,
nope. Can I work on my open source without my employer owning it? No. Can I
get places easily just by walking or taking Lyft line? Fat chance.

Not to mention, I experienced a shocking level of casual racism growing up
there. Culturally it is not a pleasant place to be. No, I don't think we'll be
seeing an exodus there any time soon.

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natural219
Midwesterner -> SF transplant here. There's fundamental cultural problems in
the Midwest that are basically insurmountable. Outside of pockets like
Boulder, people are simply culturally uninterested in the future, changing
things, or improving on their situation. People correspondingly are very
content; they immerse theirselves in their families, their relationships,
Football, etc. Starting a technology company here would be a very lonely
endeavor.

~~~
deadmetheny
>people are simply culturally uninterested in the future, changing things, or
improving on their situation

I'll give you not wanting to change things, but people here are certainly
interested in ensuring the future is good for themselves and their kids -
there's just a lack of bullshitting ourselves about changing the world by
working on a cell phone application.

>People correspondingly are very content; they immerse theirselves in their
families, their relationships, Football, etc.

You say all of that like it's a bad thing. The Midwest is a peaceful place,
and I happen to like it that way. I don't want or need a constant bombardment
of Things To Do, my situation is exactly where I want it to be.

~~~
natural219
I totally agree actually, and maybe worded it a little poorly. I love it back
in the Midwest and mostly think positively of it, I just think starting a
technology company here would be a mistake, since they are inherently risky
endeavors, and Midwesterners are culturally adverse to taking risks in my
experience.

~~~
deadmetheny
I think it would largely depend on what sort of company you wanted to start -
I would agree that a traditional SV-style startup is probably going to
spectacularly fail. However, my experience with starting a small bootstrapped
company was very positive, especially given the lower cost of living. It
wasn't anything that was gonna make me rich but it was definitely doable.

Honestly, I think the idea that anywhere other than SV is gonna be come SV is
silly - but I also do want to help dispel the notion that the Midwest has no
technical talent or is unfriendly to tech. We have a lot of tech talent - a
large portion of it just ends up leaving for the coasts for better networking
rather than setting up shop here, or working for large established companies
for steady pay.

------
proc0
SV didn't just pop up in NorCal. It's a historical place where the first
software companies and the internet were born. Silicon Valley was involved in
creating Google, and self-driving cars. In other words, it's not like any city
can, all of sudden, change its industries to compete with the level of
IT/software innovations happening in SV.

~~~
ghaff
>and the internet were born

There are people from MIT, BBN, CERN, etc. that would like to have a talk with
you. (Yes, Stanford was involved early on but pre dot-com, a great deal of the
early Internet work was well outside of California.)

~~~
walshemj
One of the 3 inventors of Ethernet worked at Matelsham aka the UK's Bell Labs.

------
sputknick
On rainy Seattle days I often research other tech cities I could live in
without a large mortgage and larger commute. I've decided, for me at least,
Raleigh offers the best balance. Good economy, small-ish city, vibrant
downtown, cheap-ish houses. As soon as I can, I'll be leaving Seattle for
Raleigh.

~~~
intrasight
I'm curious what other criteria and what other cities you've considered.

~~~
jpao79
I found this the other day. Seems interesting:
[https://teleport.org/welcome](https://teleport.org/welcome)

~~~
intrasight
Very cool! Thanks for sharing.

------
walshemj
If I had a pound for every time I have seen an article proclaiming xxx is the
new SV id be rich.

Whilst some areas do have the required teir 1 universities and USP eg silcon
fen or wider the oxford to cambridge belt a rust belt state is unlikely to
succeed.

------
addicted
Won't tech development be automated by then anyways :)

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phkahler
I've had an idea for a startup for over a decade and have wanted to go to YC.
But hell if I'm gonna go to San Francisco from Detroit area. You guys are
freaking insane dealing with that cost of living. BTW, said idea is more than
ripe now and the right team could get it running it in a month.

BTW, my concept seems like it needs to be a nonprofit. It could make money but
if that ever corrupts it people would be very unhappy.

~~~
tjr225
I'm from Kzoo/GR but landed out in the Seattle area. While the sticker price
might seem shocking at first, as a tech worker I've found my salary has scaled
to meet the high cost of living (and then some). I think the high cost of
living is more of a problem for people who are outside of the tech industry.

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dalacv
Austin

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namlem
Well they shouldn't, because it's probably Ontario.

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Dowwie
New Jersey.

