
Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong - pulisse
https://blog.emojipedia.org/apple-hides-taiwan-flag-in-hong-kong/
======
Galanwe
Can anyone actually validate that this news is true?

I live in Hong Kong and have the latest iOS updates. I still have the
Taiwanese flag... same for all my colleagues, both on personal and work
phones.

~~~
foray1010
I am from Hong Kong, I can confirm that Taiwanese flag is not displayed in
original Emoji keyboard (still appear in third-party keyboard like kaiboard).
I am using HK region apple id and latest ios version

~~~
GRiMe2D
Also I can confirm. Friend of mine was in China and bought iPhone XR dual sim.
And now lives at hometown – Moscow, Russia. Russian interface, Russian region
is installed. But Taiwan flag is completely missing: in chats, web and
keyboard.

------
peterkelly
This reminds me of the story about how the first release of Windows 95 was
banned in India because 8 pixels of the map shown in the timezone selection
control panel were colored in such a way that suggested parts of Kashmir were
part of Pakistan.

[https://www.cnet.com/news/how-eight-pixels-cost-microsoft-
mi...](https://www.cnet.com/news/how-eight-pixels-cost-microsoft-millions/)

[https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20030822-00/?p=42...](https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20030822-00/?p=42823)

~~~
dheera
I wonder what would have happened if Microsoft just didn't listen to them. If
they ban Windows over a petty reason like that, they're screwing over their
own economy.

~~~
zeroxfe
Microsoft employees in India would risk harsh punishments, including prison
time.

~~~
vinay427
I think they meant if Microsoft didn't change the map and went along with the
ban, seeing as they mentioned the potential damage to the economy.

~~~
X6S1x6Okd1st
> Microsoft employees in India would risk harsh punishments, including prison
> time.

~~~
vinay427
It's entirely pointless to copy and paste the comment I replied to instead of
at least attempting to clarify in case I misunderstood.

Why would they face prison time for complying with the law?

------
jefe_
The craziest part of this article is the note at the end about airlines being
forced to remove mention of Taiwan in order to do business in China. Went to
Delta website to find a flight to Taipei, and sure enough every stop of trip
lists city, state/country and for Taipei is just says:

Taipei,

According to the article, even this is still 'out of compliance,' because it
should say 'Taipei, Taiwan China,' blown away this is how the booking page
appears on the Delta website when loaded from the United States.

Makes me worry, localization takes effort, and effort often leads to blanket
solutions that 'check everyone's boxes.' The most worrying examples of this in
my opinion have been the superhero movies of the past decade. These
blockbuster franchises were all written to accommodate distribution in China
(and worldwide for that matter) as a goal. This led to simplified dialogues
for translation, story lines that avoided pushing controversial buttons, and
the result was a decade of moderately entertaining and decidedly safe cinema.
Sure, blockbusters are not the best barometer for a nation's ability to push
artistic boundaries, but they have historically spoken to the sentiments,
dreams, and challenges of a time. Unfortunately with the sequels and
superheros era, it seems the tone has been one of risk-averse idealism, which
strikes me as a particularly low form of entertainment, entertainment that is
truly disposable, unable and unwilling to stand the test of time. Possibly
straying into problems with corporate consolidations, but I think it's all
related as larger corporations tend to take smaller risks in efforts to appeal
to broader audiences. If very few companies are able/willing to tell China no,
censorship features become acceptable, and then they become normal, and then
maintaining two branches becomes burdensome, so then censorship becomes the
compliant option, and at that point the dream of technology empowering regular
people to do amazing things, to become real superheros, fighting corruption,
injustice and oppression, that dream will be truly dead. Think about how much
things have changed since the Arab spring... it happens quickly.

~~~
chrischen
I don’t see what the big deal is. Taiwan’s own passports say China on them.

~~~
pwinnski
I'm graciously assuming ignorance here. They say "Republic of China," which is
the legal name of Taiwan. That is different from "People's Republic of China,"
which we in the west just call China.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
Both “Taiwan” and “China” agree there is only one China and Taiwan is part of
it, but they disagree on which government is legitimate :)

~~~
surajama
The current government of Taiwan actually openly disagrees with the one China
policy [1]. This is a major reason China has ramped up their pressure on
Taiwan.

[1] [https://www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/united-
states/a...](https://www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/united-
states/article/2181316/taiwans-tsai-ing-wen-has-torn-1992-one-china)

------
tinus_hn
In other news, when you were able to visit Google Maps in China you would see
the Chinese view of the world where disputed regions are part of China, while
the rest of the world would see something else.

[https://qz.com/224821/see-how-borders-change-on-google-
maps-...](https://qz.com/224821/see-how-borders-change-on-google-maps-
depending-on-where-you-view-them/)

~~~
paxys
This is true for every country in the world. Google Maps in the US displays
borders/countries which the US government recognizes.

~~~
thrwn_frthr_awy
China is the only country in the world that requires Google Maps servers to be
ran on Chinese government data centers by non-Google employees.

~~~
jrockway
Korea has similar regulations:

[https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/one-thing-
north-k...](https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/one-thing-north-korea-
has-the-south-doesnt-google-maps-24650)

If you zoom in on South Korea you'll notice that the map tiles are raster-
based instead of vector-based like the rest of the map. At certain zoom
levels, South Korea looks like it has no roads or cities, compared to the much
more industrious North. It's kind of hilarious.

~~~
thrwn_frthr_awy
Korea is different. South Korea actually does require mapping servers to be
ran on SK soil, but it does not put requirements on the data center owner or
the workforce running the services.

I'm sorry if this comes off as nit-picky as it is not my intention, but
comparing the mapping services requirements of China and SK are worlds apart.
The intent of each policy is important to think about.

~~~
hellocs1
What is the intent of SK's policy?

~~~
ichung
Based on the article that is linked above, its origin seems to come from laws
preventing map/navigational data being exported due to national security
(South Korea is technically still at war with North Korea, as the Korean War
only ended with an armistice/cease-fire). The article then states how the non-
Korean perspective may view this as South Korea utilizing these laws to push a
protectionist policy, helping South Korean tech companies to compete with big
tech.

------
nabla9
South Park's latest episode was about Chinese censorship in the West.

'South Park' Scrubbed From Chinese Internet After Critical Episode
[https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/south-park-banned-
chi...](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/south-park-banned-chinese-
internet-critical-episode-1245783)

~~~
0xdeadb00f
I should get back into that show. I don't recall why I stopped watching.

------
wmblaettler
Years ago when working in Microsoft SharePoint, I noticed this method:
SPUtility.HideTaiwan [1], which would hide the Taiwan calendar option in
China, Hong Kong and Macao.

[1] [https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-
versions/office/de...](https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-
versions/office/developer/sharepoint-services/ms441219\(v%3Doffice.12\))

------
mey
It's easy to forget the freedom I enjoy and expect in the United States. Again
brings to light the question, how much do you actually own your device?

Since I assume there is no recourse for these users on a censorship level, is
there such a thing as a class action lawsuit for removing a feature in Hong
Kong?

~~~
milankragujevic
Even if there was (I don't know, am not a HK lawyer), you would probably have
a few problems if you complained about THAT exact feature being removed. Of
course, this is just speculation on my part.

------
alkonaut
Stop sucking up to dictatorships. If they don't want to do business with you
because your map or flags or search engine shows something they don't like -
leave. Don't censor your search engine or modify your maps to fit their
worldview.

~~~
beisner
This is a simplistic view. When push comes to shove, companies don't behave
with political principles. Apple is not going to throw away access to 1/6 of
world's population over a political dispute. It's unrealistic to expect any
company to, if they're sufficiently large. The only way to achieve political
goals is to apply political pressure directly at the state level, or to work
with domestic movements that seek to undermine the policies in question.

~~~
yters
"What does it benefit to gain the whole world if you lose your soul?" \- Jesus

~~~
tialaramex
Most famously quoted in the play "A Man for all Seasons"

"It profit a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world... But for
Wales?"

Thomas More is convicted and will be executed, on the false evidence of a man
who he now sees is wearing a chain of office, he asks to see the chain
(thereby establishing for the audience what the reward was for lying to secure
More's conviction). The chain is for the Attorney General for Wales, prompting
this line.

In reality Richard Rich was given a slightly different job with a longer title
that doesn't afford such a fun line and of course we can't prove he got it for
his deceits, though he does seem like he wasn't on the whole a truthful and
upstanding person.

------
supernova87a
I feel the need to inject some perspective here.

Every country imposes requirements on manufacturers of devices or service
providers that some person(s) might object to.

If you choose to do business in that country, you play ball, or you leave. How
you pick which ones that are tolerable enough to live with is the question --
and don't imagine that it's moral principles that define it. It's how much a
company wants to stomach the loss of that business.

Saudi Arabia (and many others) prevent the installation of Whats App, etc. on
phones activated there.

Israel (and the US by the way) censor imagery of certain places on the maps
shown in those countries.

Japan for chrissake even forces devices to emit a camera shutter sound when a
picture is taken.

And you're singling out China for censoring the Taiwan flag emoji?

How about those other cases? Where does it start / end? Are you saying
engineers should quit over every one of these infringements?

~~~
ShteiLoups
This is more blatantly political.

Do you have anything more I can read about the Isrealy/USA map censorship?

~~~
supernova87a
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyl%E2%80%93Bingaman_Amendment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyl%E2%80%93Bingaman_Amendment)
[https://phys.org/news/2018-05-scientists-open-skies-
imagery-...](https://phys.org/news/2018-05-scientists-open-skies-imagery-
policy-israel.html)

------
djohnston
This is why I laugh when Apple tried to paint themselves as champions of
anything more than their share price

~~~
_bxg1
They are, loosely, the champions of their _customers_ at least, unlike most of
the tech world. They have to do a good enough job to get you to spend $1k on
the next year's device. Google just has to not-suck enough that you won't stop
using it _for free_.

But yes, any true moral posturing they make is baloney.

~~~
hesarenu
The mobile phones are not free. Don't belittle people who pay good amount of
money to purchase them. Even though some can purchase iPhone.

~~~
_bxg1
I'm not belittling, I'm just laying out the economic forces. Google doesn't
have to give a care when it comes to services, at least, because its customers
are the ones buying ads, not the ones using the products.

~~~
hesarenu
You are still belittling. Customers buy mobile not ads. Just ask any android
users. It's like you are saying iPhone users are buying status symbols not
mobiles.

------
degenerate
The degree that China goes to censor things reminds me of kindergarten. Pull
the shades down, and kids won't want to go outside? Is it simply a reminder to
their people of who's in charge, at this level of pettiness?

~~~
thrwn_frthr_awy
China is showing the ability to control one of the world's largest, and most
advanced companies. It isn't petty–it is scary. The U.S. and others have sold
their soul to the devil for $299 flat screen tvs.

~~~
jaynetics
> The U.S. and others have sold their soul to the devil for $299 flat screen
> tvs.

This seems to suggest the populace is at fault, wanting and buying cheap
gadgets no matter what the consequences are?

In truth, I think most people are simply unaware of the many problems caused
both by consumerism, and the moral spinelessness of pretty much all large
corporations and how that is brought about by market forces. Even in politics
I'd say that there is, besides some malfeasance, also limited understanding of
complicated issues. (Remember the congressman asking Zuckerberg how Facebook
made any money?)

~~~
wccrawford
I'd push the blame a little further on. Many, many people are just struggling
to get by, and they pay as little as they possible can for their luxury goods.

If they weren't struggling to get by on the wages they make, they could afford
to be a little more picky about what they buy and how it's created.

~~~
leppr
The present piece of news goes against that argument though, as Apple devices
are simultaneously the more expensive and less ethical option. These aspects
don't seem correlated.

~~~
dpkonofa
>less ethical option

Are you getting that because of this flag issue or is there more behind that?
I would argue that Apple is, by far, the _more_ ethical option.

~~~
leppr
Was speaking about this issue specifically, but I'd be interested in hearing
your arguments for the opposite side.

From Apple's historically more oppressive stance against freedom of expression
in their own wallet garden, and the recent actions against the HK protest
movement ("legitimate" app ban, the present article), my opinion is that Apple
is a less ethical choice than Android which is more permissive and respectful
of user freedom.

~~~
dpkonofa
>From Apple's historically more oppressive stance against freedom of
expression in their own wallet garden, and the recent actions against the HK
protest movement

I would love to see how you justify Apple's actions as "historically
oppressive" when it comes to App Store rejections. Even the case that you
specify in Hong Kong wasn't Apple's actions "against the HK protest movement".
The App was rejected initially because it was thought to violate specific
terms and it was appealed and approved within days. To try and frame that as
Apple being morally or ethically deficient is really, really disingenuous.

The opposite side is that Apple is the only company that's not actively
selling user data and/or using it against users. Android may be more
permissive from a general standpoint but even that comes at the huge, huge
cost of a lack of privacy and a completely lack of concern for personal
freedom. Even from a security standpoint, I would argue that Google is less
ethical simply because they don't act on nefarious actors that they know
about. Being permissive isn't the same thing as being ethical.

------
thesausageking
The anger towards Apple in this thread is misdirected. The US government's
official stance recognizes "that there is but one China and Taiwan is part of
China" and that "the United States does not support Taiwan independence"

From: [https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-
taiwan/](https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-taiwan/)

Why should Apple be expected to take a political stance at odds with the
official Chinese and US government policies?

~~~
philliphaydon
The only way the US was allowed to trade with China is if it accepted the one
China policy. The US is FORCED to not accept Taiwan.

Taiwan is not part of China. Period.

------
CoconutPilot
Apple stood up to the US government's requests to decrypt devices but
capitulated to China's request to remove an image of another country's flag.

This is scarey.

~~~
Synaesthesia
They also denied apps which track US bombing and attacks, drone strikes and
such

~~~
ultrarunner
Do you have more information? I didn't find anything with a few quick searches
but would like to know more.

~~~
rangibaby
[https://theintercept.com/2017/03/28/after-12-rejections-
appl...](https://theintercept.com/2017/03/28/after-12-rejections-apple-
accepts-app-that-tracks-u-s-drone-strikes/)

------
dheera
It's worth noting that the ROC flag (== Taiwan flag) was the flag flown all
over the mainland before 1949. It's a part of mainland history as well.

I'm not supporting any political stance here, but just saying that it's a bit
weird to ban a symbol that was part of the mainland's history as well, and on
its own, carries more historical significance than just Taiwan independence.

~~~
mytailorisrich
Indeed, this flag has little, if anything, to do with "Taiwan independence".

But according to the PRC the ROC no longer exists (that's what they mean by
"Taiwan is part of China" and I'm guessing that they see the flag used by
people opposing the (PRC) government, so the standard procedure is to ban it.

I'm curious, though, if this comes from a specific demand or if, for example
Apple has moved to releasing the same version of iOS in HK and the mainland
(I'm guessing that the flag isn't in the mainland's version of iOS here, but I
don't know for a fact).

~~~
datagram
The article mentions that you can still view and copy/paste the Taiwan emoji
in Honk Kong, whereas you can't on the mainland.

------
omegaworks
Ubuntu was the first OS to support Kurdish in 2006[1]. We have to keep pushing
for open platforms in the face of state sponsored cultural suppression. Prior
to 1991, Turkey banned speaking Kurdish in public and they successfully
pressured Microsoft to keep it out of Windows until version 10.

It is of increasing relevancy as imperialist governments around the world put
pressure on minority populations. Just yesterday the Trump admin opened the
doors to Turkish expansion into a Kurdish region of northern Syria.

1\. [http://www.unthinkingly.com/2006/12/07/ubuntu-in-
kurdish/](http://www.unthinkingly.com/2006/12/07/ubuntu-in-kurdish/)

------
Razengan
Is this the same Apple that was peacocking about defying its OWN government
not long ago, during the FBI iPhone access hullabaloo?

Now they're aiding the repression of an entire nation trying to defy a much
more tyrannical government?

Regarding Taiwan, I haven't been there, but from what I've seen/read about the
country and spoken to the people from there, their situation seems like such a
shame too. They deserve better recognition. China has long been acting like a
petty schoolyard bully, "If you're their friend you can't be our friend!"

I know I shouldn't be feeling this way about an entire people, but this whole
situation is making me cold towards Chinese people in general, for letting
such a government carry on like this for so long.

------
qwerty456127
The whole "unrecognised country" nonsense should begone. Everybody knows
Taiwan is a distinct country (and does a reasonable job of being a decent
country for the people living in it, it obviously is a better country than a
number of completely recognized ones) yet it still has "limited recognition".
How about recognizing the facts rather than virtual reality of politicians'
imagination? Banning an entire country is bullshit.

~~~
IIAOPSW
De Jure nationhood is a stupid game that ignores facts on the ground in favor
of politicians vision. It is predicated on a fallacy that "legitimacy" is a
vital resource and that those already in the nation club have a monopoly on
it. At this point calling groups "countries" and calling other groups
"terrorists" is better understood as the geopolitical equivalent of a curse
word and/or a propaganda trope.

-Order of Malta. De Jure recognition, no territory or population to speak of. Basically a forgotten joke country left over from a bygone era.

-Trasnistaria. Has population, land, flag, collects taxes. Only recognized by Russia. There's a few Russian backed puppets like this, I won't name them all.

-Taiwan. Already discussed.

-Hong Kong. Mainland Chinese media calls the protestors terrorists. Yet another example of "terrorist" meaning simply "whoever the establishment wants to de-legitimize". If you follow the CCP narrative, the thing they care about isn't Democracy but separatism. "One China" is about not recognizing Taiwan and HK as a matter of ethno-nationalist principal.

-Palestine. Recognized by majority of UN countries. Still not recognized by US, Israel, and associated power block. Why? Because of the stupid belief that recognition will somehow legitimate it.

-ISIS. At their peak they had a sizeable chunk of land, a flag, a capital, civic functions like a court system, an oil industry, handed out passports, were fighting a conventional land war using conventional (not terrorist/guerilla) tactics, had a uniformed army, and the word "state" was right there in the name. But don't you dare call them a state lest someone mistake you for a terrorist sympathizer.

This is why I subscribe to De Facto nationhood instead. A nation is a nation
when it satisfies the following properties:

-A plot of land with well defined borders.

-A permanent population on said land.

-A Monopoly on violence over said land.

-An organization capable of credibly making peace, declaring war, and otherwise accepting agreements with other nations.

The last one is tricky as it only specifies the capability not the
actualization. For example, if the organization agrees to peace but the
individual factions of the army keep fighting then this condition is not
satisfied and what you have is a stateless warlord situation. For another
example, the ISIS situation clearly had an organization which was capable of
agreeing to a surrender or appointing an ambassador, but they never wanted to
or were allowed to. The condition is still satisfied even though they never
did it.

~~~
busterarm
-ISIS. At their peak they had a sizeable chunk of land, a flag, a capital, civic functions like a court system, an oil industry, handed out passports, were fighting a conventional land war using conventional (not terrorist/guerilla) tactics, had a uniformed army, and the word "state" was right there in the name. But don't you dare call them a state lest someone mistake you for a terrorist sympathizer.

That's playing a bit fast and loose with the facts there. ISIS conducted
public executions, crucifixions, desecration of cultural sites and enslaved
people for a labor force. That's textbook asymmetric warfare/terrorism.

~~~
IIAOPSW
Was the Roman Empire a country?

~~~
busterarm
Thankfully many international treaties have been made in the last few thousand
years and civilized nations wage war differently now. I was expressly
disputing the parent poster's claim that ISIS did not use terrorist tactics,
which is a statement I find difficult for anyone to really take issue with.

~~~
CydeWeys
Whether a state uses terrorist tactics is orthogonal to the issue of it being
a state. Was the Russian shooting down of MH-17 not a terrorist act undertaken
by a state? How about the bombing of the Beirut barracks? How about any number
of acts by Nazi Germany, Communist Russia, or Imperial Japan?

~~~
busterarm
Sure, I won't even dispute that. What I'm disputing is that the parent poster
said that ISIS did not use terrorist tactics.

That is blatantly a false statement. I can't believe the negative reaction
towards pointing that out.

~~~
skissane
What they said was ISIS "were fighting a conventional land war using
conventional (not terrorist/guerilla) tactics"

You are summarising that as "ISIS did not use terrorist tactics"

I think that is a misleading summary. I don't think the poster meant to
dispute that ISIS was behind terrorist attacks, both in the Middle East and
also in other parts of the world. What they were saying, is that ISIS was
engaging in conventional (non-terrorist) military operations against the
Syrian and Iraqi governments, other rebel groups, etc. Terrorism and
conventional military tactics are not mutually exclusive, one can pursue both
strategies at the same time. But the second strategy is a sign that one is
dealing with something having de facto statehood, as opposed to a non-state
terrorist group.

If you are getting heavily down-voted, a possible explanation is that people
perceive you to be engaging in an uncharitable reading of the remarks you are
responding to

~~~
busterarm
> If you are getting heavily down-voted, a possible explanation is that people
> perceive you to be engaging in an uncharitable reading of the remarks you
> are responding to

If they wanted to say that ISIS was using conventional _AND_ terrorist tactics
that would be one thing. They specifically said "not". You even quoted.

If my options are either to stay silent or charitably read someone's claim
that ISIS' tactics don't meet their definition of the word terrorism, because
they're a state, then honestly I don't want an account on this site anymore.

------
dalore
This type of localization/internationalization is common place. I remember
doing locale files that contained timezones for Nokia phones for Hebrew and
Arabic. Notable the Hebrew files didn't contain Palestine for example. China
didn't have Taiwan etc.

------
factsaresacred
In a way it's a good thing that China is revealing its petulant nature to the
world. Not that they hid it all that well, but until recently everybody was
too busy enjoying cheap electronics to notice the monster they were feeding.

China—the people and country—are spectacular. China—the Party—is an malevolent
force obsessed with self-preservation. Such is the nature of autocratic
regimes.

A quote from Czech dissident Václav Havel bears repeating:

> _The post-totalitarian system touches people at every step, but it does so
> with its ideological gloves on. This is why life in the system is so
> thoroughly permeated with hypocrisy and lies. Depriving people of
> information is called making it available...the lack of free expression
> becomes the highest form of freedom. Because the regime is captive to its
> own lies, it must falsify everything. It falsifies the past. It falsifies
> the present, and it falsifies the future. It falsifies statistics. It
> pretends not to possess an omnipotent and unprincipled police apparatus. It
> pretends to respect human rights. It pretends to persecute no one. It
> pretends to fear nothing. It pretends to pretend nothing._

~~~
mistermann
> In a way it's a good thing that China is revealing its petulant nature to
> the world.

It's probably somewhat risky strategically, but they likely realize they're
now strong enough to do such things with absolute impunity, and it will make
their eventual victory that much sweeter.

~~~
howhigh12323
I think they are tired of playing crouching tiger hidden dragon. Its good for
China, but not so much for the rest of the world.

------
Keverw
The whole one China policy has always been confusing to me, but haven't done
too much research. Taiwan, Hong Kong and China each have different entry
requirements for example for visiting, yet they are supposed to be the same
country? I guess it has to do with control after their civil war though, but
confusing for people who haven't been following the whole story. They are not
separate, yet they are separate is like some sort of double speak.

But the US has some confusing things too going on, like people from American
Samoa are considered US nationals but they aren't US Citizens. They still get
US passports, but can't vote, etc. I guess they aren't technically citizens of
any country then but aren't completely stateless since still considered a
national. It's like they aren't really citizens anywhere but are kinda like a
half citizen in a way since they still get a passport. John Oliver did a
segment on this, [https://youtu.be/CesHr99ezWE](https://youtu.be/CesHr99ezWE)

~~~
why-oh-why
One country can have various entry requirements for its regions. China’s own
Hainan island lets me enter visa-free for 30 days while Mainland China
doesn’t.

Same identical country, different rules.

~~~
Keverw
Yeah I know I've heard that about Tibet too, has different rules to entering
than the rest of China. Then I've heard there's even cities that ban westerns
completely, but unsure if that's true.

Just a very odd concept to someone from North America. If you fly to Miami you
are allowed to visit New York or Seattle all the way across the country. Same
with Canada.

I know Mexico has some odd things like that too though, you can visit border
towns or cruise ports but if you want to go so much more inland you need a
Visitor Permit called a FMM, or tourist card some refer to it as. Read
conflicting amount of miles, seems about 12 miles though in. So seems like if
your cruise final departure was in Mexico and you flew back home you might
need to worry about it, but a port of call at the beach seems like most
wouldn't need it. However read also flights and cruises will also include it
with your ticket, but if you were taking a road trip across Mexico you'd for
sure need to get one yourself it seems. But seems more like a tax than
anything, since not the same as a visa.

------
TazeTSchnitzel
The Extradition Bill ostensibly existed to allow extradition to ⊠⊠

------
milankragujevic
Hmmm. Would I get banned by the GFW for these two characters? 0x1F1F9
0x1F1FC...? (🇹🇼)

~~~
jrockway
The last time I was in China, HN was already banned.

~~~
milankragujevic
I mean, AFAIK my blog isn't. Yet. I get visitors from China on my post about
controlling the world's cheapest quadcopter from a PC via arduino and
nrf24l01+...

edit: I just checked, it's accessible from mainland China, though quite slow.

~~~
rdbell
If anyone else wants to check their website's accessibility from China, I run
a service that lets developers proxy HTTP requests through real Chinese (and
worldwide) residential ISP customers:
[https://packetstream.io](https://packetstream.io)

We have a worldwide network of real users that install a relay app on win/mac
and we proxy customer requests through their home ISP connections like this:

    
    
      ```
      developer@Developers-MacBook-Pro-2:~% curl -x http://xxxx:xxxx_country-China@proxy.packetstream.io:31112 https://ifconfig.co/json
      {"ip":"223.166.106.16","ip_decimal":3752225296,"country":"China","country_eu":false,"country_iso":"CN","city":"Qingpu","latitude":31.1539,"longitude":121.1141,"asn":"AS17621","asn_org":"China Unicom Shanghai network"}
      ```
    

I just tested HN several times from different Chinese IPs and it is indeed
blocked:

    
    
      ```
      developer@Developers-MacBook-Pro-2:~% curl -v -x https://xxxx:xxxx_country-China@proxy.packetstream.io:31111 https://news.ycombinator.com/
      *   Trying 34.234.216.249...
      * TCP_NODELAY set
      * Connected to proxy.packetstream.io (34.234.216.249) port 31112 (#0)
      * Establish HTTP proxy tunnel to news.ycombinator.com:443
      * Proxy auth using Basic with user 'xxxx'
      > CONNECT news.ycombinator.com:443 HTTP/1.1
      > Host: news.ycombinator.com:443
      > Proxy-Authorization: Basic xxxx
      > User-Agent: curl/7.54.0
      > Proxy-Connection: Keep-Alive
      >
      < HTTP/1.1 502 Proxy Error (destination unreachable)
      < Proxy-agent: PacketStream Proxy
      < Content-Type: text/html
      <
      * Received HTTP code 502 from proxy after CONNECT
      * Closing connection 0
      curl: (56) Received HTTP code 502 from proxy after CONNECT
      ```
    

If any HN users want free PacketStream credits to test their own endpoints
send me an email with your PacketStream username: ronald at packetstream dot
io

~~~
milankragujevic
Oh wow that's an excellent service. Especially given the fact you provide
access to actual Chinese network endpoints.

Please post the link again, this time as a Show HN link-post and put the text
description as the first comment (I've noticed that increases chances of
success. ) (given the fact your previous post from 6 months ago didn't get any
traction). Of course, if you want.

------
baybal2
I have mainland version of Huawei Maimang 5 and it has Taiwanese flag on the
keyboard... thou, only on the last page, tucked along non-nations

------
886
To get the facts right. It isn't called "Taiwan flag". It is the flag of
Republic of China. And To People's Republic of China, ROC is not legitimate.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_and_the_United_Nations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_and_the_United_Nations)

~~~
lacampbell
The Republic of China is commonly known as Taiwan. No one is confused about
the geopolitical entity you mean when you say "Taiwan".

The ROC government has for some time used some variation of "Taiwan (Republic
of China)" when using English - passports, visa entry stamps, embassies, etc.

------
pcurve
Anyone hazard to guess China's next few chess moves?

~~~
goblin89
Depends on their near-term goals. If dismantling HK’s SAR status is on the
list, make sure that protests in Hong Kong remain violent and feature people
waving flags of USA. Use that as an excuse to intervene in order to fight
terrorism and/or maintain national sovereignty against foreign powers.

Status re Taiwan is unlikely to radically change in near future, as far as my
understanding of the situation goes.

As an aside, while in times like these any information may turn out to be
propaganda, this looks like a thoughtful analysis of the current situation in
Hong Kong (Google Translate works adequately with it):
[https://gateway.pinata.cloud/ipfs/QmUg7C7s7umWp24Qr9x9kc68zE...](https://gateway.pinata.cloud/ipfs/QmUg7C7s7umWp24Qr9x9kc68zEi2ixJqbyAQTCNT4FUg22/)

~~~
goblin89
Apparently the author of that article is considered pro-PRC in HK, as he
supports the Greater Bay Area idea. Uhm. On the merits, though, some of what
he writes makes sense.

------
throwaway490194
An idea: In situations like this, encourage a whistle-blower in Apple to come
forth to disclose who was involved. If the wrong doer knows they will be
publicly exposed and forever branded for the wrong doing, they might be a
little less likely to do it.

------
mzs
ROC and JP flags removed from upcoming Top Gun movie

[https://twitter.com/markmackinnon/status/1152241649893945346](https://twitter.com/markmackinnon/status/1152241649893945346)

------
adamnemecek
I really wonder about the information flow here. Does Xi Jinping call Tim Cook
directly?

~~~
CharlesColeman
> I really wonder about the information flow here. Does Xi Jinping call Tim
> Cook directly?

I doubt it. The PRC is far more important to Apple than Apple is to the PRC.
If I had to guess, I'd say the government didn't talk to Apple at all, but
Apple has a department whose tasks is to proactively ensure their products do
not offend Chinese government sensitivities.

------
flying_sheep
I found some serious problem about Hacker News. This sharing was ranked #1 in
news tab just two hours ago. But now it disappears in the list. This scares me
because someone is censoring Hacker News.

------
rkapsoro
Humble suggestion: Hong Kong iOS users should file a radar/feedback.

~~~
xvector
It isn't a bug, the decision is intentional. I'm sure Apple is aware of how
ridiculous this is and how their users hate it.

~~~
hkai
True, but they also need to earn money. See last week's south park about
exactly that.

------
dangero
Can you imagine if this is just a bug and you're the engineer that caused it?
I'm thinking it might be a bug because the emoji is still available on the
system through other means.

------
nudpiedo
My understanding is that we should expect private embedded backdoors and
weakened security on firmware for certain regions, and that the rights will be
molded to the each local region.

That’s just the great power of influence over an American company, in spite of
the clear position from its own government regarding Taiwan.

Say goodbye to all those ideals of universal rights and freedom in the cyber
world as it was once long ago theorized. Somehow what sci-fi cyberpunk became
almost true without bionic implants nor anarchy in the streets.

------
Ericson2314
Between China censoring abroad, and today's Syrian back and forth, I've been
thinking about what a non-rightist foreign policy for the US could be.

It's a really difficult problem. The world can be rightfully indignant at
America's post-war history of barely paying attention to the mess it makes.
From the inside, foreign policy has all this classist baggage that makes it
really had to touch from the left.

------
on_and_off
Hiding the flag from the keyboard is one thing (and already pretty bad) but
refusing to display the character in China is surreal.

Censoring an emoji is just insane.

------
xigency
Interesting how Apple's phones are a marriage of Taiwanese and Chinese
manufacturing when the two countries are bitterly divorced.

------
rhema
In 2008, I worked at livemocha.com. I remember there was a formerly Chinese
national that mentioned the same problem. The company received complaints
(from users, I think).

The story also reminds me of one dev's solution to conflicting instructions on
how he was to label a button. So, he hard-coded special rules for each
individual boss and both thought they got what they wanted.

------
yters
I consider this reason to ditch Apple next round of device purchases. Nice UI
and all, but it's just a pretty face on Unix.

~~~
dlivingston
"Just a pretty face on Unix" is a bit of a simplistic way of viewing an
operating system(s), no?

------
reaperducer
I wonder what Foxconn, a Taiwanese company and massive Apple manufacturing
partner, thinks of this.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn)

------
chrischen
China executes an official _Taiwan belongs to China_ stance to save face, as
communist bureaucracies love to do.

In practice, their official policy lets Taiwan exist as an independently
governed region more than the US even allows Hawaii or Cuba to be independent.
Even Canada has more of a attachment to the US and its laws than Taiwan does.

This is probably a fact lost on most foreigners unaware of the situation.

If China really wanted to assimilate Taiwan they would not have such deeply
connected bilateral trade, cross-border tourism, or give access to their
market by Taiwanese companies like Foxconn, HTC, Asus, and hundreds more.

China does impose tourism restrictions to pressure Taiwan, but if they really
wanted to crush Taiwan they can easily do so without raising so much as a hand
gun.

The funny thing is armchair Chinese nationalists (people on the other side of
the planet reading hacker news) are more up in arms about this than actual
Taiwanese people because the de-jure stance has always been like this, and the
de-facto independence of Taiwan has been pretty stable.

~~~
philliphaydon
People in Taiwan can freely travel to China. But people in China can only
travel to Taiwan via a tour group. So there’s no pressure to taiwan on
tourism...

~~~
chrischen
They often restrict tourism from Mainland China as leverage, as Taiwan
receives a lot of tourism revenue from China.

~~~
philliphaydon
The restriction of not allowing mainland into Taiwan is controlled by Taiwan.
Not by China... Taiwan is the one that put the policy in place that China can
only visit Taiwan via a tour group only.

~~~
chrischen
Here you go: [https://www.dw.com/en/taiwan-reduces-reliance-on-mainland-
ch...](https://www.dw.com/en/taiwan-reduces-reliance-on-mainland-chinese-
tourists/a-37645694)

"Beijing's attempt to punish Taiwan by throttling tourism from the mainland
hasn't made much impact. Taiwan set a new tourism record last year by
successfully courting visitors from the rest of Asia."

Yes Taiwan has the sovereignty to do that, but China also has exit
restrictions (USA does not have exit restrictions, which I assume is why you
may be unfamiliar with this concept).

~~~
philliphaydon
Ah ok. I haven’t been to China. I’m in taiwan right now. People here really
don’t like mainland China tourists and always complain.

------
todd3834
For someone who is completely ignorant to what is going on with Taiwan / Hong
Kong / China… What's the quickest way to get up to speed from a "neutral?"
source?

~~~
bllguo
I encourage you to talk to some Chinese-Americans, at least they will have
some understanding of both viewpoints unlike all the Western and Chinese media
coverage out there

------
sixstringtheory
Personally I hate seeing this happen both as a specific instance in the case
of HK/Taiwan but just in general with corporations and politics.

Professionally and philosophically it's another interesting wrinkle in the
implications of the emoji technology.

It reminded of something we saw a couple years ago when Apple changed the
depiction of the gun emoji [0]. Interestingly, that blog post's proposed
solution (note: same author as the OP article):

> Hide it.

This speaks to how fragile Unicode is, that things that were written in the
past may so easily be changed in the future (like the replacement for Taiwan
in China) or hidden in various ways. Another article mentions how emoji might
be used by e.g. fascists to minimize uncomfortable concepts [1]. Even after
you apply Hanlon's razor, there's still opportunity for good old-fashioned
miscommunication [2].

[1] specifically mentions the mosquito emoji being introduced for health
awareness, but what if we eradicate Malaria or even the mosquito as a whole,
and then the irrelevant emoji is replaced with something not widely feared or
hated, or maybe even beloved (like another social awareness campaign)? Then
there'd be a lot of "Man I hate :positive-thing:" messages out there.

I'm not saying let's ban emoji, it's just interesting to think about. Still, I
hope the whitewashing effect mentioned in [1] doesn't gain more ground, here
or otherwise.

[0]: [https://blog.emojipedia.org/apple-and-the-gun-
emoji/](https://blog.emojipedia.org/apple-and-the-gun-emoji/) (discussed:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12240386](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12240386))

[1]: [https://openspace.sfmoma.org/2018/07/the-absolute-denial-
of-...](https://openspace.sfmoma.org/2018/07/the-absolute-denial-of-/)
(discussed:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17552067](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17552067))

[2]: [https://grouplens.org/blog/investigating-the-potential-
for-m...](https://grouplens.org/blog/investigating-the-potential-for-
miscommunication-using-emoji/) (discussed briefly, couldn't find a better
thread:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11446047](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11446047))

~~~
syncsynchalt
> This speaks to how fragile Unicode is, that things that were written in the
> past may so easily be changed in the future

Unicode does not define code points for individual country flags. It defines
26 code points "Regional Indicator Symbol Letter A" through "Regional
Indicator Symbol Letter Z" and implementations use that to represent two-
letter ISO codes as the region or country's flag. To use a more neutral
example, one implementation might recognize the combination of SU to represent
the Soviet flag while another might not.

This is more than a political dodge by the Unicode Consortium (though it is
that too), it also uses fewer code points than the 200+ that would be needed
for all countries, plus it allows new countries to be represented without a
new Unicode version.

~~~
sixstringtheory
Interesting! Thanks for pointing that out, I did not know that. That being
said, it seems like it's an abstraction built upon Unicode, and so can only be
as strong (or weak/dangerous/whatever) as that foundation. Even moreso, if
it's a convention instead of a standard (which is kinda what those articles
are getting at as well: Unicode is a standard, how they are rendered is
convention).

------
newnewpdro
Didn't GNOME remove flags altogether due to a similar circumstance? Rather
than being political about which flags are valid, they just removed all of
them.

------
throwawaysea
Apple and others also changed the pistol/gun emoji to a squirt gun
([https://emojipedia.org/pistol/](https://emojipedia.org/pistol/)). It seems
like these big tech companies generally want to make
cultural/intellectual/political choices and impose their mindset/influence.
This is exactly why large tech platforms should not be trusted with managing
(read: censoring) speech broadly across society behind the veil of protection
as private entities.

------
blunte
This is another reminder that we should not have corporate gatekeepers to the
apps and content on our devices.

------
bigpumpkin
My prediction:

Two days later: Apple reinstates ROC flag emoji in HK apps just like the
U-turn they did with HKmap.live

------
EGreg
I thought Apple took the physical Taiwan flag and hid it in Hong Kong. And
clicked to find out why.

------
jaimex2
It's crazy how South Park episodes play out in real life the same week they
are released.

------
natch
Curious, anyone in Hong Kong, what do some of the various flavors of Android
do?

------
amelius
Why can't we just send custom emoji, and maintain a library of them?

~~~
aembleton
Because it is a character, not an image so the recipient would also need the
character to display it.

~~~
amelius
This may be how it is implemented, but it may not be what the user wants. The
user may just want to send "image of X", where X may be something that was not
predefined by some company or standards-committee, or it may be something that
some company or government does not want the user to send.

------
imulligan
Looks like the US Trade Policy is driving the car that carries the flag.

------
iserlohnmage
I was wondering what the next step is? Ban the VPN and extend the GFW?

~~~
hkai
Something more prosaic, like removing the gay flag emoji in countries where
it's frowned upon.

------
emsign
This is like in 1984 and what the Minitrue is doing.

------
mattmurdog
Profit > rights

------
georgeecollins
I don't know if things are different now, but when I went to school in HK a
long time ago, most Chinese people in Hong Kong I talked to felt Taiwan should
be part of China.

~~~
johnzim
1 Country 2 Systems has been shown to be a scam so things have changed. I
can't speak for people of my generation but the kids are alright.

~~~
georgeecollins
I agree, but I think the idea (then) was that people were very proud of being
Chinese, and thought that Taiwan should be part of China. They may have wanted
a different Chinese government, but not one that didn't rule over Taiwan.

------
ddtaylor
Today it's a flag emoji, but eventually Apple might be doing something with
the Chinese government that is worse. It's a slippery slope.

------
coygui
Talk is cheap, show me your weapon.

------
luckydata
For how long will the duck need to walk like a duck and quack like a duck to
be finally called a duck?

~~~
some_random
For as long as the duck keeps up the payments and no one else really cares
otherwise.

------
dmix
> replaces the flag of Taiwan with a missing character tofu ()

TIL, is it really called tofu?

~~~
kps
Yes; for example, the Noto font family is so named as an abbr for ‘no tofu’.

(Taiwan should change their flag to �. Checkmate, CCP!)

------
huffmsa
Literally kowtowing.

------
NeoBasilisk
Disgusting and cowardly, but if it makes a buck (or billions), am I right?

------
ethagnawl
So, _that's_ what they meant by, "think different".

------
m0zg
That's just what happens when the Communist Party of China has you by the
balls. Note to other manufacturers: diversify and disengage.

------
alexnewman
We must respect the wishes of sovereign governments and the rule of law if
it's capitalism and not the jungle

------
xur17
Does it make anyone else uncomfortable to see a fairly high number of freshly
created accounts that _only_ comment on China related threads? Specifically
(read the comment history for these accounts):

* [https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=thewholeview](https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=thewholeview)

* [https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=surajama](https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=surajama)

* [https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=thrwy_01](https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=thrwy_01)

* [https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=7u5432throw](https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=7u5432throw)

* [https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=howhigh12323](https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=howhigh12323)

* [https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=throwaway13372](https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=throwaway13372)

~~~
rrix2
Per guidelines, reach out to dang or so:

> Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading,
> foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken.
> If you're worried about abuse, email us and we'll look at the data.

~~~
xur17
Sorry about that. I actually looked before posting, but could only find
hn@ycombinator.com - is that the correct email?

~~~
rrix2
No worries, I believe that's the correct address, yes.

------
tibbon
What's it take for an engineer in the US to actually do something like this?

If my boss/product manager wanted me to do something like this, I'd be calling
them out for shitty politics, and telling them they need to find a new
engineer because I'd quit immediately - and likely incite others to come with
me.

Maybe I have a higher sense of morality than others, but I'm no shill for
China's power over Taiwan. I can use my entitlement/privilege as an engineer
to say "fuck off" to anyone who wants me to do things I find immoral.
Furthering the needs of a power hungry regime looking to assert dominance over
others? Nope. I spend all my day working to further democracy and freedom, not
to enable free thought and self-determination to be squashed.

Whoever coded this change and approved this PR, shame on you.

~~~
organsnyder
Perhaps that engineer had a baby on the way and was terrified of losing health
coverage, or was in the United States on an H1B visa and was afraid they'd be
deported...

I'd probably have made the same decision as you (I'm fortunate to have a
safety net), but many people don't have that luxury.

~~~
Macuyiko
I agree. We shouldn't blame the engineer but the managers asking for this in
the first place and knowing they can get away with any sort of "small
pressures" they put on their employees.

~~~
forkerenok
Perhaps that manager had a baby on the way and was terrified of losing health
coverage, or was in the United States on an H1B visa and was afraid they'd be
deported...

But seriously, moral is the thing that applies not only when it's convenient.

Disclaimer: I have no moral right to preach this.

~~~
Zenst
Maybe that the engineer or the manager (or both) are not that old and still
paying of their student loans and other debt babies.

Though I'd go with the ability to add or remove emojis or restrict them was a
facility engineered for more moral motives and was a point and click level of
solution that those with access could do such a change with ease.

Or

It was upper management...

Either way - I do not expect an announcement from Apple saying "Zach in
engineering did it, his bad, sorry for that", or indeed anything at all as
that would fuel this and unless it is still trending as an issue after a few
weeks, then they might. But in general, such things PR wise, blow over and
Apple like most have found that not fueling it with any response unless it is
exactly what the populus want to hear, it is best to say nothing. At least,
that is how many such comparable matters play out with such large corporations
throughout history, though they have improved.

EDIT[ s/hold/old/ ]

------
yungcoder
Between this and the NBA's capitulation to making the Rockets' GM retract his
statements on Hong Kong, at what point does appeasement just become acceptance
of China's behavior? Sure, from the individual business' perspective they
don't want to risk alienating the Chinese government and losing the Chinese
market, but if China sees that they can get their way by simply threatening
foreign companies then it will just embolden them to push for more concessions
down the road. Quite frankly this all stinks of 1930s European appeasement
policy and we all know how that turned out.

~~~
spats1990
If you think 2019 China is that similar to 1930s Germany you should just come
right out and say it, in my opinion. Let that argument stand on its merits.

If you didn't intend a parallel between 1930s Germany and 2019 China, there
is, again in my opinion only, probably a better way of making your point.

~~~
yungcoder
Assuming you argue in good faith, how about this:

1\. Germany annexed the Rhineland, Sudetenland, and Austria using the
justification of unifying German-speaking peoples under a single banner. The
Chinese line for Hong Kong and Taiwan is the same -- you look Chinese, you are
Chinese and to say otherwise is treason and will get you labeled an American
lap-dog. I can tell you this firsthand as a Chinese-American and if you need a
more concrete example, just look at how the Chinese treated Gary Locke.

2\. Revenge for the perceived humiliation of Versailles was a core driving
factor for the rise of Nazism in post-Weimar Germany. If you can give me
another explanation for the state of Chinese-Japanese relations, I will eat my
words.

3\. Go on any Chinese social media site and the amount of nationalist rhetoric
you'll find is quite disturbing. Having pride in your country is one thing, to
insist on your national, racial, and cultural supremacy is another.

4\. Google what's going on in Xinjiang and tell me that doesn't stink of
something.

Maybe I'm wrong and just being an alarmist, and it would certainly be in the
best interest for the world if I were, but ask yourself -- what are the stakes
this time if I'm not?

~~~
spats1990
1\. Germany was preparing for outright war throughout the 1930s. Conscription
was introduced in 1935.Is China seriously planning to militarily annex Taiwan?
Leaving aside propaganda etc.

2\. This point appears to be about how unfair historical treatment can lead to
fascism. Are you saying that the people of China are headed in this direction?

3\. I'll defer to your judgement as I presume you read mandarin/canto, but I
don't see a big difference from western social networks there, except for
probably in terms of number of users (larger userbase) . I can read Korean
fairly well and see those kinds of nationalist comments on Korean social media
sites as well (funnily enough, they also aren't fans of Japan at the moment. )

4\. I know what's happening there and am a little hurt you'd assume I'd get
into a discussion like this without knowing. Human rights abuses are bad. That
seems like the most one can say without getting accused of whataboutism. Are
there gas chambers in those camps? (edit:clarification below)

>Maybe I'm wrong and just being an alarmist

Maybe you're right and I'm just trying to hope for the best.

My original post on this thread came mostly from shock as I was raised on the
internet era where it was considered a faux pas to do blithe Nazi comparisons.
so I was mildly astounded to see that the top voted comment in here boiled
down to "China is Weimar/Nazi Germany."

~~~
yumraj
> 1\. Germany was preparing for outright war throughout the 1930s.
> Conscription was introduced in 1935.Is China seriously planning to
> militarily annex Taiwan? Leaving aside propaganda etc.

China is one of those rare countries in today's world which has border
conflicts with each and every of its neighbors and is openly ignoring
international norms. On top of that I don't think that it is investing heavily
in military just for show.

~~~
spats1990
South Korea has a... border conflict with its northern neighour, a territorial
conflict with Japan, and a massive and well armed military given its size.

>openly ignoring international norms.

Could you explain a bit more about what this means exactly? If you are talking
about international law, plenty of world powers ignore it when it suits them.

~~~
yumraj
For example the arbitrary nine-dash line and China's claim over other
countries's territories. China's even lost the case against Philippines [0],
but has chosen to ignore it.

[0]
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines_v._China](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines_v._China)

------
NilsIRL
Apple is basically saying that Hong Kong is ≈ to China which is Chinese
propaganda.

~~~
7u5432throw
Isn’t that also the stance of the UN? Hong Kong and Macau are special
administrative regions of China until 2047.

~~~
NilsIRL
What I meant was more equal than before.

Basically Apple is treating both places in the same way with the same
restrictions whereas before nothing special applied to HK.

------
mulle_nat
Apple's "Courage" ends at little technical details like headphone jacks.

------
seph-reed
Maybe I'm being naive, but it seems like a better response would be to add a
bunch of other "not real country" flags. Flags from ancient civilizations, or
countries that no longer exist. Then they wouldn't be taking a stand as the
people responsible for defining what is and is not a country.

~~~
dmitrygr
That would not actually work due to how unicode works. There really is not a
code point for Taiwanese flag, or Russian flag, or American flag. In fact,
each flag is made of two code points, making up the ISO code for the country.
So, for Taiwan, the flag is made of code point "flag T" and "flag W". And yes,
this means that to correctly render unicode, you need to know the current
geopolitical situation in the world (fun, right?)

This also means that you cannot easily add non-existent countries. They do not
have country codes

~~~
seph-reed
This is an extremely quality response. Thank you for the info.

------
typeformer
This is fffffffkkkkkdddd

~~~
dang
Maybe so, but could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to Hacker
News?

