
Another Scam ICO? Savedroid Founder Exits with $50M to Chill on a Beach - Sujan
https://cryptovest.com/news/another-scam-ico-savedroid-founder-exits-with-50m-to-chill-on-a-beach/
======
artellectual
The problem with money is too much, too fast, modifies the mindset of the
holder. I know very good and smart people who earned money the ‘easy’ way
change into douche bags or idiots or sometimes both. This is just another
example.

To be honest I think he started out honestly with his true mission, not trying
to scam anyone, but when he saw all that money in his bank account he probably
thought “I guess I made it?” And decided to drop the whole thing.

The thing about people like him is, they are usually extremely careless and
will eventually lose all that money without too much effort, either he will
spend carelessly in gambling, or get caught by the feds, or burn it in some
other way.

It’s usually always the same story. It doesn’t last. I studied someone who won
a lot of money from a gambling business, to people who inherited a lot of
money from family, to people who get money from investors without putting in
much effort. They all usually end in the same way, they lose it all, and it’s
usually because of bad management of wealth.

My hypothesis is that when they get money the shortcut way what they don’t get
is the management skill that is required for having a lot of wealth. Money is
fascinating, in what it does to the mind of the holder. How money reaches the
holder, usually determines how long it lasts as well.

I’m studying a few more group of people, my hypothesis has not been wrong yet.
People who work hard for their money tend to be able to make less go much
further. They seem to be much more efficient, and are usually very good at
turning 100 into 1000.

~~~
3pt14159
I have a friend that inherited a couple million at 25 and how he's handling it
has really made me realize that it isn't the process of fast wealth that makes
someone treat money responsibly. It's something deeper. Their "soul" or "core
values" or something like that.

At 25 years old my friend took half of his money and he researched which
Canadian Aboriginal tribes his grandfather and great-grandfather displaced
with their logging industry and he directed his money to supporting their
causes. He's just about finished his law degree and rather than use it to make
money as a corporate lawyer or high priced attorney he's dedicating his career
to helping refugees.

You're not wrong that it _can_ hurt, but I don't think it is as much of a
given as you're making it out to be.

~~~
dguaraglia
Given power, people will show their true self. Money is just a proxy to power
in a capitalist society. Give money to someone like your friend and they'll do
great things. Give money to someone who would be horrid if they weren't
constrained by the norms of society and they'll be horrid.

------
askafriend
I know stuff like this shouldn’t bother me relative to all the other stuff
worth worrying about, but damn if it isn’t demoralizing. Makes me question why
I even bother going into work and put in an honest effort every single day.

~~~
techsupporter
Irrespective of prison, there’s also a pretty good chance that what you do for
a living doesn’t raise your chances of someone showing up and wanting to
“discuss things” with you.

Ripping people off for €40 million may end well for this fellow or it might
result in a few irritated “investors” (donors?) coming round with knives, or
even just fists, for a quick chat about what happened to their money.

It might not be likely but that’s a risk and a much greater one than I would
want to take. Besides, someone can only use the defense of polite society if
he or she hasn’t already ripped the cover away.

~~~
sndean
> someone showing up and wanting to “discuss things” with you.

Yeah, there's more than a few cases of people ending up back in the US (or
whatever country) in the trunk of a car. I may prefer prison over the constant
fear of being "disappeared" by a bounty hunter or hired kidnapper [1-3].

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_of_Sidney_Jaffe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_of_Sidney_Jaffe)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Luster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Luster)

[3]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Eichmann#Capture_in_Arge...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Eichmann#Capture_in_Argentina)

------
JumpCrisscross
> _There were also claims of a cryptocurrency credit card, but it seems all
> that is gone now, with the official site displaying a Southpark meme_

Wow, so it is [1].

[1] [https://ico.savedroid.com](https://ico.savedroid.com)

~~~
IshKebab
That is pretty amazingly brazen. If it were me I'd definitely just go silent.
Much less risky than "I stole all your money, come at me!"

~~~
arisAlexis
yes it's because it was a PR stunt, everyone fell for it without thinking
rationally.

------
aresant
Lots of speculation on Twitter that this is a misguided PR stunt.

After getting lost in replies found this article of a guy visiting their
office today and finding it devoid of any CPUs and founder missed an event
yesterday:

[https://hallofrankfurt.de/savedroid-rekt-or-pr-
stunt-a60d19e...](https://hallofrankfurt.de/savedroid-rekt-or-pr-
stunt-a60d19e35ece)

Seems so blatant as to be unbelievable!

~~~
misiti3780
I would be very surprised if this wasnt a stunt. He posted a picture of an
obscure beer (which is apparently Egyptian:
[https://raseef22.com/en/life/2014/03/16/beers-arab-
world/](https://raseef22.com/en/life/2014/03/16/beers-arab-world/)) I cant
imagine people couldnt thin the list of locations he is at to a small number.

~~~
aresant
Just for the sake of playing pretend internet detective:

He didn't post a picture of himself with the beer.

He posted a picture of a hand holding a beer that could be anybody and could
easily have been lifted from a random FB account.

~~~
misiti3780
true.

------
Roritharr
I've posted this rant on twitter:
[https://twitter.com/Roritharr/status/986669910192467972](https://twitter.com/Roritharr/status/986669910192467972)

As someone that knows both @YassinHankir and @airbone42 personally, while
being very skeptical about @savedroidAG , the stories of an Exit Scam just
don't add up.

#1 The XX Millions is hard to actually get ahold off, its not all in cryptos
that are hard to track, a lot of it is in the normal banking system.

#2 All of their communication up until this point indicated growth plans for
their company. I've even had personal communication with @airbone42 roughly a
week ago that indicated that.

#3 There is simply no response from anyone associated with the #savedroidico ,
for an exit scam atleast a few disgruntled employees would have spoken up by
now.

#4 From all the people I've talked to in the Frankfurt FinTech Scene, it's
like the company simply vanished. You can't do this that cleanly with that
many people involved and have anyone have a good outcome even if they had
access to all the capital.

#5 Without wanting to speculate, but I want to atleast put the idea out there:
What if this is a case of extortion or (let's pray its not) kidnapping? If
find it plausible that we're witnessing the authorities handling the situation
with the involved people.

#6 The whole PR Coup Scenario is a daft idea. They DON'T need more attention
right now. Their product isn't ready yet, from my armchair, they have atleast
half a year of development ahead of them before they can deliver anything. Why
attention now?

~~~
JumpCrisscross
> _a lot of it is in the normal banking system_

Do we know this? (Also, nothing prevents big wires to Belize.)

> _All of their communication up until this point indicated growth plans_

Scammers lie.

> _for an exit scam atleast [_ sic _] a few disgruntled employees would have
> spoken up by now_

Not necessarily. After Madoff, employees went dark while they talked to
lawyers.

> _You can 't do this that cleanly with that many people involved_

Pre-SEC America was rife with elaborate investment scams [1].

> _What if this is a case of...kidnapping_

What if it's the Illuminati? Occam's razor.

> _Without wanting to speculate, but I want to atleast [_ sic _0 put the idea
> out there_

This is a bad disclaimer.

...

If you lost money in this, I'm sorry. Contact your local precinct and make a
police report and then file a complaint with (a) the SEC and (b) your state
securities regulator. (If you're in the U.S.)

[1]
[http://www.hiddenmysteries.org/conspiracy/history/usafraud.h...](http://www.hiddenmysteries.org/conspiracy/history/usafraud.html)

 _Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice. If you lost money
to securities fraud, speak to a lawyer._

~~~
Roritharr
I didn't lose anything in this as I said, I was sceptical and didn't like
anything about the project. I just knew both of them for much longer than they
do Savedroid and I'm concerned for their well being as they are people i'd
invite to parties.

I might be completely wrong about all of this, but the scenarios discussed
just make less sense when I put all that I know together.

------
microtherion
If this is indeed an exit scam, the founder did himself no favors by posting
south park memes etc.

The more interesting case is what would happen if instead, he'd just quietly
take his money and go his merry way. It seems to me that it could be quite
difficult to charge an ICO founder with a crime:

\- ICOs do not sell equity in the underlying company.

\- ICOs are not debt in the underlying company.

\- An ICO buyer acquires neither a stake in the company, nor a right to
interest payments. They acquire a bunch of tradeable integers. As long as they
got their integers, and the trading platform still works (which in my limited
understanding is not hard to do for Ethereum based coins), what cause of
action does a buyer have against the company?

Even in cases where there IS a traditional debt or equity relationship, large
white collar crimes are often hard to prove. ICO related scams might be all
but impossible to prosecute if the principals refrain from spiking the ball,
unlike this founder.

------
senoroink
I legit think this guy has been killed. Why would someone do this? This will
likely lead to a witch hunt [1].

[1] -
[https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/8d8hz2/was_...](https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/8d8hz2/was_yassin_hankir_savedroid_kidnapped_and_killed/)

------
roadbeats
The founder pitching his project:
[https://youtu.be/hBUAVonzKtM](https://youtu.be/hBUAVonzKtM)

~~~
Hallucinaut
Amazing. A pitch entirely made of memes...

~~~
bitmapbrother
You must be thinking of memecoin.

[https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/memecoin/](https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/memecoin/)

~~~
dguaraglia
Oh man, I remember the old days when r/memeeconomy was just a joke.

------
DennisP
If he's really not going to do what he promised, then he'd better be on a
beach in a country with no extradition treaty, and planning to stay there
forever.

~~~
johnvanommen
How so?

These are unregulated securities aren't they?

It would be no different than me selling you Monopoly money.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't see what law was broken. Not
defending this, just saying this is why we have regulations.

~~~
pcwalton
This is a textbook case of wire fraud, a federal offense under United States
law. Other countries will have similar laws.

In the United States, sentences for $50 million worth of wire fraud can easily
run over 10 years.

~~~
DennisP
Also the SEC says they're treating most ICO tokens as regulated securities.
Given that this one was supposed to "automatically invest user funds into
profitable ICO portfolios," it pretty obviously passes the Howie Test.

------
everdev
Have fun being on the run the rest of your life. Sure, some countries don't
have extradition to the US, but politics change. Not to mention some of those
countries would not hesitate to blackmail you once they know who you are and
how much money you have.

I can't imagine growing old and never having remorse for a scam like this.

~~~
JumpCrisscross
Here's the rub: if we go after this guy, our tax dollars will pay for the
pursuit, pay for his extradition, detainment, prosecution and jail time. When
people ask "why are my stupid investments your problem," this is why. Unless
you're willing to pay a private investigator to hunt down your scammer, you're
shifting your burdens on the public.

~~~
mkolodny
I think it's worth catching him just for the principle of the matter. Catching
him shows that it's not okay to steal money from people by faking an ICO.

~~~
JumpCrisscross
> _it 's worth catching him just for the principle of the matter_

Pardon me, I did not mean to imply we shouldn't go after him. We should. Just
wanted to remind us that these scams cost the general public money. Those
costs are part of what securities regulations protect us from.

------
vldr
And.... it's not gone after all!

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5_bwFf_byo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5_bwFf_byo)

it was a stunt.

------
juozasget
Looks like it was just a really bad PR stunt, more info:
[https://cryptoticker.io/savedroid-back-online-exit-scam-
to-s...](https://cryptoticker.io/savedroid-back-online-exit-scam-to-send-a-
message/)

------
rdiddly
People who win the lottery have ridiculously high rates of murder, suicide,
being crime victims, and being involved in litigation... And they have fewer
problems than this guy.

------
hartator
I would expect him to lay low instead of mocking investors via memes and
tweets.

------
segmondy
I believe that ICOs are a scam, but with how brazen this is, How come no one
is suspecting that the guy got hacked?

~~~
iodiniemetra
They hacked his office empty and then somehow hacked him onto a flight out of
the country? And then they hacked all of his social media accounts and those
of the people who worked for him? And then they hacked a new picture of him on
a beach holding a beer?

Or, he scammed.

~~~
segmondy
The article didn't say anything about his office space or people that worked
for him. It mentioned twitter and website. If you go far enough through my
photos you can find enough pics of me at the airport and the beach holding a
drink.

~~~
mratzloff
The office has been cleared out.

------
Mizza
Serious question - who's buying all this crap?

~~~
giarc
I see a ton of people on Facebook talking about how they have everything in
"crypto" now. People that probably shouldn't be speculating with their entire
savings. It's the old saying that when your cab driver is giving you stock
tips, it's time to get out.

~~~
arisAlexis
first of all that was a PR stunt. secondly the real danger as someone put it
is not having money in crupto while world debt is record high and fiat
currencies are going down and Blockchain is a paradigm shift.

------
Dibbles
I'm starting my own ICO: it's a hitlist platform for scammy ICO-founders.

~~~
microtherion
Disclaimer: I utterly abhor and condemn this course of action, but…

Ironically, that would be one of the few technically plausible use cases for
cryptocurrencies, if you implement it along the lines of Jim Bell's notorious
essay "Assassination Politics": [http://www.outpost-of-
freedom.com/jimbellap.htm](http://www.outpost-of-freedom.com/jimbellap.htm)

------
bitmapbrother
Here's a video of someone that showed up at the Savedroid office:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEBp1ASTGR0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEBp1ASTGR0)

------
gesman
We clearly need ICO escrow service.

"Launching ICO without escrow? GTFO".

~~~
JumpCrisscross
> _We clearly need ICO escrow service_

And contracts and laws and regulators and courts?

~~~
ProAm
Maybe even banks...

~~~
dumbfounder
If only there was some way to create a programmatic contract to control the
release of said funds based on investor voting...

------
nembal
Apparently, it was a joke from the founders to teach the ICO community about
the possibility of a scam... Basically erasing trust and fueling hatred
against themselves what they achieved.

Message from the founders:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5_bwFf_byo&feature=youtu.be](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5_bwFf_byo&feature=youtu.be)

------
hbosch
This is a form of ICO awareness accelerationism. I'm very cynical about ICO's,
so this may be brash, but I automatically consider every ICO to be a scam
outright – if they were all this obvious the world would be a much better
place, because people would finally stop participating in these ponzi-esque
schemes.

What this guy's done, if it's true, is no worse than any other ICO who instead
uses their funds to buy a house in the bay area and lease an SF office for a
couple years and play ping pong until the cash runs out.

~~~
cornoffering
I too consider every ICO to be an outright scam. That's actually what led me
to build (shameless plug)
[https://initialcornoffering.com](https://initialcornoffering.com), which
pokes fun at many of the ICO anti-patterns I've seen.

~~~
antisthenes
Lost it at 'cornpaper'.

Thanks for the lighthearted take on the craziness!

------
dorfsmay
Has it been confirmed his twitter and amazon accounts haven't been broken
into?

Can somebody confirm that first image
([https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DbDvp9iXkAYaY6s.jpg](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DbDvp9iXkAYaY6s.jpg))
hasn't been photo-shopped? Those images don't have any exif data, but it looks
like twitter's stripping exif info.

~~~
senoroink
Twitter always scrubs exif data.

------
everdev
Looks like they found him: Movenpick Resort on the Red Sea in El Queseir.
Coordinates: 26.155949, 34.244912

[https://cryptobriefing.com/find-yassin-hankir-exit-scam-
save...](https://cryptobriefing.com/find-yassin-hankir-exit-scam-savedroid/)

~~~
dorfsmay
They haven't found "him", they found the beach where the pic of the beer
bottle was taken. Nobody knows when that pic was taken, by who, and who's hand
is holding it.

------
seanalltogether
Where are a lot of the ICO token purchases coming from? Are they all on
questionable international exchanges that are trying to avoid regional
financial regulations? Are the people trading on those platforms because they
have no clear way to cash out currencies in their own country?

~~~
tialaramex
St Petersburg lottery. An hour's statistics teaches you that if there's only a
P chance of winning, and the amount you win is N your expected outcome is NP
so you should definitely consider spending anything less than NP to
participate. High risk investments are great if there's a high reward, right?
If you stick around for a few more hours they'll warn you that this assessment
is... misleading at best if P is very small. But ICO investors aren't waiting
that long, got to get in fast.

------
jonknee
I have to admit it's amusing seeing cryptocurrency true believers slowly start
to realize why banks, regulation and the SEC are critical to a functioning
system. "There oughta be a law!"

~~~
JumpCrisscross
ICO buyers are the new anti-vaxxers. Securities laws protected them so well
for so long, they forgot about the virulence with which scams ravaged pre-SEC
America.

------
tomc1985
How long before the masses identify the airport and that beach? Homeboy is an
(edit: rich) idiot.

~~~
bitmapbrother
It shouldn't be too long. I'm working on a Visual Basic GUI to zoom into those
Arrival and Departure screens to extract any relevant information.

~~~
smoothgrips
Relevant yt:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkDD03yeLnU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkDD03yeLnU)

------
ryanlol
[https://twitter.com/YassinHankir/status/986551967932735488](https://twitter.com/YassinHankir/status/986551967932735488)

That's just hilarious.

------
claudiulodro
I started a cryptocurrency art project I think could be really interesting[1].
With all these ICO scams and the amount of cryptocurrency marketing spam
everywhere it's made it very difficult to get any sort of traction or feedback
on anything in this space.

Make it possible to quickly get fat stacks of cash in any space and watch the
space turn to crap.

[1] [https://lodro.gallery/lodrocoin/](https://lodro.gallery/lodrocoin/)

~~~
busterarm
So could you forge the artwork or otherwise use it to transfer to the
Lodrocoin to yourself?

~~~
claudiulodro
I would love someone to try. If someone went to the trouble to accurately
reproduce the unique ink application, the unique serial, and an accurate
artist signature on an art that would be great validation for the project and
would put a Lodrocoin print up there with a desirable fine art piece. :-)

Also if you're just leaving your Lodrocoin prints around in plain sight that
would be the equivalent of leaving your wallet key taped on a post-it to your
monitor. An interesting thing you could try with your art but it's also an
interesting property of the art that the art is best "displayed" tucked into a
drawer somewhere where nobody can see it.

------
techaddict009
They are not gone. They just said this to prove the point that ICOs are easy
to scam and some structure is needed.

------
bitmapbrother
I think that Stella bottle is going to somehow figure into the cause of his
demise.

------
donttrack
It was a prank...

------
ronnier
> It is believed that the ICO raised around 40 million Euros, or $50 million
> USD via the token sale

How do we know any of this is real? What if the entire thing is fake?

------
seattle_spring
"A fool and his money"... I have less sympathy for savedroid victims than I do
for people that fall for the white van speaker scam.

------
arisAlexis
it was a PR stunt.amazing how YC hates ICOs with passion

------
andreygrehov
Haha, that's awesome. This guy is so honest. I wonder if this is just a
marketing tactic and the website will start functioning in a few days.

~~~
almost_usual
Pretty brazen tactic, not sure I'd risk my life with a practical joke
marketing scheme like this.

~~~
andreygrehov
Well, I would never risk my life doing wingsuit flying. It doesn't mean people
don't do it. I only suggested that this might be a marketing scheme. It could
very well be a scam.

