
Oracle "sanitizes" Hudson's creator from wiki - recampbell
http://jenkins.361315.n4.nabble.com/Hudson-Dev-Can-I-get-my-account-back-td3262992.html
======
raganwald
_Sure, I can fix it. I wanted to catch up with you on IM as we'd like to
regain access to the hudson-labs infrastructure as well. There are a few other
VMs we're not sure exactly where they are._

Do I read this as, "We deliberately locked you out and removed your
attribution, and we hint we can fix things, and we want you to do certain
things for us, but no we aren't actually saying we'll fix anything and no we
didn't tell you about it in advance?"

Really, I would just walk away from anyone trying to deal with me on this
basis. Come out and say what you did and what you're going to do. If you need
my help with something, ask, and don't try to hint things are tied together
when they aren't.

~~~
rdtsc
> Really, I would just walk away from anyone trying to deal with me on this
> basis.

Agreed, with one exception -- to expose the other side to the public. I think
Oracle is showing its face (again) and I think it is in the community's
interest to _let_ it keep showing its face.

~~~
j_baker
No. If he had started something about Oracle, what would have happened to
Oracle? Some redditors and HNers would seize the opportunity to complain about
how horrible Oracle is and then everyone would forget about it a few days
later. On the other hand, what would have happened to Kawaguchi? Some
potential employer could see him complaining publicly about one of his former
employers and decide that it's a bad idea to hire him.

In all, there's little good that would come out of it and a _ton_ of risk for
Kawaguchi.

~~~
rdtsc
That is why I emphasized the word _let_. He doesn't have to editorialize their
actions and responses. Those speak for themselves. Just share them on his blog
-- he is not complaining, he is just communicating to the open source
community the state of the Jenkins project. Let others comment and let Oracle
damage its own image.

> what would have happened to Oracle?

Well eventually the same thing that happened to SCO ;-)

They are losing credibility in the PR domain even more. This is not directed
towards the general public or even Oracle's corporate customers, but towards
the hackers, sysadmins, and other tech workers. The opinions of those people
matter however, and eventually they will be consulted by those that make
purchasing decisions. A general mistrust and dislike of Oracle will take its
toll.

~~~
rbanffy
> Well eventually the same thing that happened to SCO ;-)

Oracle has some very good products. SCO had a Unix nobody wanted anymore (at
least, nobody with two or more neurons).

~~~
rdtsc
For a while they had a Unix some wanted and nobody thought at the time that
there will be a free better Unix variant one day. Then GNU/Linux came along...

~~~
j_baker
Yeah, but Oracle's GNU/Linux came a long time ago in the form of MySQL and
Postgres.

------
brown9-2
Some recent tweets from Jazon van Zyl make it sound like he's holding Kosuke's
request hostage:

 _This wasn't anyone at Oracle. It was me after a preliminary infrastructure
audit, it's not malicious or permanent._
<http://twitter.com/#!/jvanzyl/status/34413629902168064>

_This is my request to @kohsukekawa (<http://bit.ly/fXsvd7>) to air everything
in a conversation that everyone can see_
<http://twitter.com/#!/jvanzyl/status/34413629902168064>

So in other words... let's have an IM chat for questions I have about the core
architecture of a project you built, and then I'll restore your account?

~~~
othermaciej
His second reply on the thread sounds even more like he's holding the account
hostage:

[http://jenkins.361315.n4.nabble.com/Hudson-Dev-Can-I-get-
my-...](http://jenkins.361315.n4.nabble.com/Hudson-Dev-Can-I-get-my-account-
back-tp3262992p3263520.html)

------
w1ntermute
This shouldn't be surprising at this point. Everyone should know by now that
Oracle doesn't give two fucks about anything other than making money.

~~~
ShabbyDoo
I happy that Oracle's goal is to make money, but they seem to only care about
doing so in the short term. How much goodwill has Oracle blown with
influential technical folk over what is really a very minor piece of software
in the grand scheme of things? How much harder will it be for Oracle to
promote a new technology/standard/whatever if the first thing everyone's
thinking is "How are they going to screw me?"

~~~
samt
This is what I do not get about Oracle. Are we (tech influencers, i guess) all
commie hippies that can't make a damn difference at all to their long term
business?

Because the answer is either yes or no, and if there is a good possibility
that it is no (Oracle's behavior is long term financially detrimental) you
might think shareholders would care. But I do not see $ORCL shareholders
marching in the street in protest about the apparent pillaging of the
company's future. Where are the pitchforks?

~~~
whatusername
See rst's comment. $ORCL doesn't sell "technology". It sell's a "Business
Solution".

// Which in itself is generally a good strategy for most startups to emulate.

~~~
samt
This is effective in the short term, yes. But "businessmen" do not create the
future, they sell (or buy) the present. And the people creating the future are
almost entirely aligned against the Oracle ecosystem.

~~~
protomyth
The next generation of business leaders for most companies is inthe same
meetings with Oracle's salespeople. They will pick "solutions" for business
over their IT staff's opinion. Oracle thinks like them, the IT staff doesn't.

------
newobj
Considering that the person who responded to Kohsuke is Jason van Zyl, creater
of Maven, and not an Oracle employee as far as I know, I have to question the
title of this story.

~~~
gojomo
It appears van Zyl is with Sonatype, a company working with Oracle to continue
Hudson under its original name:

[http://www.sonatype.com/people/2011/02/hudsons-bright-
future...](http://www.sonatype.com/people/2011/02/hudsons-bright-future/)

~~~
rdtsc
Fantastic excerpt from it

\----

The Hudson lead, Winston Prakash from Oracle, is highly skilled, very
thoughtful, and he cares about the community. He is also the first person to
create detailed, comprehensive architectural documentation.

\----

So now the main accomplishment of the current project lead is writing detailed
documentation. Those that can - code, those that can't - write very detailed
documentation. Yeah, I think I'll stick with Jenkins...

~~~
Tyrannosaurs
>> So now the main accomplishment of the current project lead is writing
detailed documentation. Those that can - code, those that can't - write very
detailed documentation.

So we're now running people down for decent documentation? Seriously?

~~~
yummyfajitas
No, we are looking for a pretext to run down people who work for Oracle.

~~~
rdtsc
Because Oracle is behaving like bully we don't need much of a pretext.

~~~
Tyrannosaurs
Then go with that rather than picking on people for basic good practice.

------
rch
If this was just an honest mistake, the response should have been worded
differently.

At this point, perhaps the account problem could be fixed immediately, and
then a separate discussion started to address the hudson-labs issue. To do
otherwise seems unnecessarily infantile.

~~~
rch
...assuming there really is any 'issue' on either side here, that is.

~~~
rch
...and reading through things, I guess there is. Awful.

------
jarin
Ah yes, Oracle is carrying on the grand tradition of Pharaohs, ancient Rome's
_damnatio memoriae_ , and Stalin's Great Purge.

------
escanda
The removal was done by a Sonatype employee; company which could be
potentially more vulnerable to this tactics as their products are subject to
be chosen by developers. I would think twice before buying them a product
after this.

~~~
quicksilver03
Since Sonatype's offering is centered around Maven, you should think twice
regardless of this issue and then look for something better (gradle or buildr,
for example, or the old reliable ant).

------
chc
I'm confused. Based on the second entry in the thread, it sounds like it was
just a mistake. Am I missing something?

~~~
kenneth_reitz
The response is bringing that into question. It sounds like Oracle is holding
his account hostage.

~~~
rbanffy
Why would Oracle keep his account with full functionality _after_ he left the
company, badmouthed it, and started a fork of the product the company paid him
to develop?

I agree removing his name was dumb, but it could be an unpredicted side effect
of modifying the account.

------
Bobbickel
The original thread [http://jenkins.361315.n4.nabble.com/Hudson-Dev-Can-I-get-
my-...](http://jenkins.361315.n4.nabble.com/Hudson-Dev-Can-I-get-my-account-
back-td3262992.html)

