
Awful Recruiters - gyardley
http://awfulrecruiters.com/
======
dabent
I first started writing software on contract in the mid-90's. It was a good
time, full of C++ jobs and my skills and my market seemed to be in harmony. I
put my resume out there on the still-so-new-it-shined internet and immediately
got over a dozen calls, the vast majority being from 3rd-party recruiters.

I complained to my wife after the third call in a row and she explained to me
that I should never be upset when someone called because they wanted to get me
a job. She had endured a lot of unemployment in her family and a call from a
recruiter was a cause for celebration, not complaint. From that point on, I've
never complained about a call or email from a recruiter.

2002 and 2003 were some lean years for software jobs and those calls became
few and far between. Now the phone is ringing again, and I don't even have my
resume posted anywhere. Still, I won't complain and I haven't blocked emails
from any recruiter.

I actually go out of my way to respond to recruiters that seem halfway decent
or better. A couple have expressed grateful surprise and I've made new
connections that may work out in the future. The awful ones aren't blocked (at
least none have been so awful to merit blocking so far), but I don't respond
to them either. I just keep the channel open in case times do get lean once
again.

The third-party recruiter model may indeed be broken, and, with a few
exceptions, isn't a fit for the startup world. It does however seem to work
well enough for nearly every BigCo in existence and should I work for a BigCo
on contract once again, I'll likely work through a third-party recruiter.

~~~
rogerbinns
> ... when someone called because they wanted to get me a job

She overestimates the bad recruiters. Recruiters have been known to advertise
non-existent positions so they can build up their folios. They have been known
to alter resumes to make it look like the candidate is a fit when they aren't.
They have been known to lie about candidates. They have been known to try to
make the candidates do all the work. They have been known to take jobs posted
by companies that do want recruiters involved and then repost them (it makes
them look better having these jobs on their books).

My biggest grievance is them having put in zero effort to check if I am a
match for the company or the company for me, despite the means to do so being
readily available. ie they are wasting the time of everyone involved.

More personal context <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3661261>

~~~
dabent
Thanks for the comment. I noticed Modis on your list. Do you recall how they
earned the spot? I've worked for them (granted, years ago) with no problem.
I've had very few bad experiences - never had my resume submitted without
approval, or had my resume edited. I do check out a recruiter before working
for them and maybe my internal warning system works. Often I try to work for
companies that offer insurance, which is a hurdle that fly-by-night shops
can't clear.

Protip: If a recruiter ever uses the term "DIRECT CLIENT" in an email, they
are ignored, especially if it's in all caps. That seems to be a great filter
for getting rid of bad recruiters. I'm not even sure why so many places use
it.

~~~
rogerbinns
> I noticed Modis on your list. Do you recall how they earned the spot?

They were added in February or March 2011. I don't record specifics as to why,
but they all follow the same pattern - a useless content free email where it
is obvious they have made no attempt to see if I am good match or the company
is, despite the ease with which they could do that. The messages are usually
almost indistinguishable from spam. They have to be pretty egregiously bad
that I never want to hear from the recruiter ever again under any
circumstances!

See also <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3677709>

------
chollida1
> All third-party recruiters are awful and need to find a real profession.

Wow, I'm not the biggest recruiter fan but this makes the site pretty hard to
take seriously.

~~~
samsoffes
Obviously I'm kidding.

~~~
micaeked
not obvious...

------
iamjustlooking
It would be great to see an example of the bad recruiter e-mails received from
each domain. I think this would give the list some more authority.

~~~
maclaren
I had the same initial reaction, but upon visiting a few of the domains the
caliber of the companies became apparent.

------
danohuiginn
I'd love to see a RateMyProfessor-style site for recruiters. Among other
things, it might provide some reward for the few who try to behave well
towards developers and employers.

~~~
Katelyn
I agree. I think the great recruiters should be rewarded as they are few and
far-between, and the terrible ones should be outed. It'd be nice to turn the
tables and evaluate their qualifications just as they do ours.

------
geuis
I'm going to take issue with one of the companies on his list, Riviera
Partners. I worked with this company for several months last summer (Hey
Matt!) and, in my dealings with them, they were utterly professional. I hate
recruiters in general, but the guys at Riviera were the definite exception.

First, their list of clients were very top-notch. I did a number of phone
screens and on-site interviews with companies I was introduced to via them.
Never found exactly what I was looking for, but met lots of cool people and
companies.

Matt was my main contact after I asked to only deal with one of their people.
Was always professional and helpful. I've had good interactions with some of
their other employees too.

~~~
azylman
I posted my experience with them elsewhere here
(<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3678767>) but it was basically the exact
opposite of your's - extremely unprofessional the whole way.

~~~
geuis
Sucks you had an unpleasant interaction with them. I worked with them quite a
bit and never got that. I did stupidly take an interview from a recruiter
called Jivaronic or something. That was pretty bad.

------
tomgallard
We recruit directly. Our ads are clearly marked at top and bottom with 'We do
not use, and never have used, a recruitment agency. Please do not contact us
if you are a recruitment agent'

Despite this, we receive multiple calls a day from agencies.

Exasperating!

~~~
rogerbinns
I've seen that as well. There are two things going on. One is that agencies
will add the jobs to their books. It makes them look better - "hey look at all
these cool jobs we are recruiting for".

The second is that they can claim to have introduced a candidate to you and
can try to sue. Often a company will just roll over especially if it turns out
to be a good candidate.

Remember that the good recruiters will be successful meeting the needs of
their clients (employers & candidates). Bad ones won't so they will spread
themselves far and wide until they get a bite.

~~~
bdonlan
> The second is that they can claim to have introduced a candidate to you and
> can try to sue. Often a company will just roll over especially if it turns
> out to be a good candidate.

If they have no recruitment contract, how does this hold water? They're suing
because you (allegedly) used some unsolicited advice they gave you?

~~~
rogerbinns
> They're suing because you (allegedly) used some unsolicited advice they gave
> you?

You seem to be confusing the American legal system with justice and it being
free to innocent parties!

The recruiter will claim they sent the candidate details and represented the
candidate and now you owe them. If you don't they will take you to court. It
will cost the innocent company a fair bit of cash to defend even though they
are in the right. So faced with a bill from a scummy recruiter for $10,000 or
potential legal costs (not to mention time) of $25,000 they end up picking the
former.

The same kind of crap goes on with domain names where squatters will set their
price a little below that of following the legal route to get your domain. You
either pay them in order to get the domain right now, or you spend several
months and even more in legal fees in order to get it via the ICANN rules.

------
kyt
You can add cybercoders to that list.

~~~
chaostheory
They are annoying. In my personal experience, this is the only firm whose
recruiters don't even bother reading your resume as opposed to just making
sure it was key words.

------
dustineichler
Until someone changes the payment model for 3rd party recruiters especially,
I'll always cheer lists like this on. No matter what a recruiter may tell you,
they'll never have your interest at heart if there's a commission to be made.
The incentives are wrong for you, wrong for companies too.

------
jbyers
There's a disclaimer to this effect, but just to reiterate: there are real
companies on this list. Good and Lumos Labs are two that I recognize off the
bat.

~~~
dabent
Turner.com is for Turner Broadcasting. I think some people have gotten some
interesting jobs there, working on stuff like Adult Swim.

~~~
mirkules
Kforce, also. Many people I know have had great success through them.

------
pagekalisedown
There's another list here:

<http://www.rogerbinns.com/blocked_recruiters.txt>

~~~
rogerbinns
Hello again :-) That is my site and list. Here is the context about how the
list arose and why I block those recruiters:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3661261>

------
stevetursi
Looking at that list, the thing that occurred to me is how one bad individual
can harm the reputation of an otherwise OK firm. The OP obviously had bad
anecdotal experiences with every firm on that list. Also anecdotal is the fact
that there are recruiters worth talking to one or two of those firms (I've
talked to them.) I don't know if my experience makes that firm good or bad -
but I also don't know if the OP's experience makes any of those firms good or
bad.

What I have done with my "awful" anecdotes was email back the abusive
recruiter, and track down the person's boss (usually there's somebody on the
web site whose email address you can at least derive.) In the email I say I'm
going to start filtering all messages from their domain to deleted items. If
the person doesn't respond, the boss usually does, and more often than not the
experience is positive - and if not, I'll follow through and send 'em to the
trash. It has worked for me.

~~~
rogerbinns
> ... one bad individual can harm the reputation of an otherwise OK firm

If the recruitment firm is unable to make good hiring decisions for itself in
its own industry on a topic it knows about, then why should they be trusted
for other firms and candidates?

------
ben1040
A week or two ago I got a LinkedIn friend request from a recruiter who used
the message to tell me about how I should get in touch with him.

He clearly used the friend request mechanism to skirt around the LinkedIn
rules about having to pay to send recruiter mails. I can't imagine how else he
would try to cut corners or sell people out to save himself a buck.

------
zby
Wouldn't it be easier to produce a list of good recruiters?

~~~
semanticist
It would be a short list - and you need the list of bad domains to do email
filtering.

------
mzarate06
Friendly suggestion ... alphabetize the lists.

------
phogster
A better idea would be a site dedicated to rating recruiters and recruiting
agencies. That way you can democratize the process and get a feel for the
average experience.

~~~
boopsie
Sort of glassdoor for recruiters? I'd be good with that.

------
devs1010
ugh, yeah the jobspringpartners one I saw in there.. I actually met with them
at their office once as I was in town from out of state for another interview
so figured why not (I didn't know much about them and figured I should squeeze
an extra interview in even if it was going to be a dud)... it was definitely a
weird experience, they had me meet with this one girl first, then they send me
out in the waiting room to have five different people each come out to meet
with me individually and they each asked basically the same stupid
questions... and these were really basic questions that were all answered on
my resume. Its just odd that companies like this can stay in business. There
was no succession of meeting with different levels of managers, etc, they were
all just basic recruiters (salespeople), its as if they were either so inept
at communicating that they couldn't share information among one another (or
take the time to actually read my resume) or that they were so ultra
competitive that they couldn't trust one employee to meet with me, they had to
add go directly to the source.

------
azylman
I was contacted by a recruiter from Riviera Partners recently. Stupidly, I
thought that it might be beneficial to respond to them.

After not receiving a call from him at our scheduled time, I emailed him. He
responded three days later telling me that he had called in sick the day he
was supposed to call me and asked for my availability in the next few days. I
gave him my availability, and never heard back until he just called me out of
the blue. It was fine that time, but would have been very annoying if my
availability had changed.

We talked for a bit and he said that he wanted to get me in touch with a
startup company that he thought had a position that would be a good fit for me
- same deal, I gave him my times and received no confirmation until the
company called me one afternoon.

A little bit into the phone call it became apparent that he had told them I
was open to permanent positions despite me making it very clear to him I was
only looking for internships.

Great.

------
larrik
Nice list. I was surprised how none of the ones who email me are on it, so I'm
assuming recruiters are mostly by area.

One question, though: why are you archiving these in GMail instead of trashing
them? If you trash them, you still have 30 days to correct your mistake, and
no recruiter email is worthwhile after 30 days anyway.

------
mathnode
A terrible recruiter from flex-associates.com found me on linkedin, I came
"highly recommended", from a super secret sauce. Next day they tried it on
with my junior. Same person, same conversation tactic, same lack of knowledge
about the industries I work in and the systems I work with and develop for.

------
tomg
What's the metric for "purely crap"?

~~~
samsoffes
"Requirement: Java Engineer" when I don't know Java, etc.

------
Jasber
I expected this to be a Coding Horror for bad recruiters. Now that would be
interesting :)

------
badrecruiter
I happen to work for one of the firms that is listed in this post. It is so
funny how people like to talk smack when they are anon. I think that is ironic
that is I were to rate Soffes on his track record, he'd get a C+
maybe...hasn't held a job for more than a year and even when he worked for
himself, he lasted less than 2 years...I am not saying that there aren't some
Awful recruiters on this list, but obvious Sam has a axe to grind, because
that are obvious some well respected firms on the list. I will be sure to add
Sam Soffes to our internal list of AwfulCandidates!

------
fabricode
Sounds like this person has put himself up on some/many job sites and is
wondering why every recruiter on the planet is sending him referrals. Besides,
if a particular company sends you a bunch spam, it's usually a 1-3 click
process to add them to your spam filter.

As for the list he provided, I don't agree with the top entry. I got a great
referral from WorkBridgeAssociates, and our company has found several good
people through them as well. (Note: I do not work for or get any kind of
recompense from them.)

~~~
ryguytilidie
Or, you could easily figure out who this person is and then realize they are
quite good and that is why they are getting contacted all the time...?

~~~
fabricode
Yes, that is certainly a possibility. And if they are that good, then they'd
definitely have set up a spam filter and not have complained so loudly, so
publicly. I don't really care too much either way about it. It seems to be too
much huffing and puffing over a trivial issue.

------
spelunker
I got my current job from LinkedIn, so it's not all crap from there. A lot of
it is, though, so I would understand if a person wasn't patient enough...

~~~
boopsie
I was surprised to see LinkedIn on the list. LinkedIn is _so_ much more than a
job exchange. Everything from its Answers (which is often very good, if you
scrape off the people who -- for reasons I cannot fathom -- answer 50
questions a day) to its Groups (varying quality, but worth it for the good
ones) to just plain old "where's _she_ working now...?" gossip.

------
eli_gottlieb
I once had a job that depressed the hell out of me. I had thought the company
would be good because the job ad said they'd never, ever lost an engineer in
more than 10 years of operation.

2 months after I'd left, the same job ad was on the recruiter's website.

------
krobertson
Don't know if the author is reading, but would be nice if the main domain list
was sorted.

Have dealt with a few of those mentioned and agree, and was going to forward
the site to our internal recruiter to make sure don't use them. :)

------
psaintla
Add Techlink to the list. Not only do their recruiters lie about the positions
they are looking to fill but they get the hiring managers to lie about the
positions as well.

------
newobj
Ok. But thebackplane.com is not a "3rd party recruiter" .. they're not even a
recruiter. :)

------
AznHisoka
Isn't @good.com just an email service like gmail but used by BlackBerry or
corporate users?

~~~
samsoffes
Ah, I think that's a company. A few got mixed in my list of recruiter firms.
Like it says on the site, I need to take some time and filter it.

------
zemo
I really wanted to read user-submitted emails they've received from
recruiters.

~~~
mosburger
FWIW, I started a tumblr like this and abandoned it due to lack of interest:

<http://yousuckatrecruiting.com/>

------
dsolomon
A couple of friends and I got this idea a few years ago. We've accumulated
over 340 companies their recruiters who are less than desirable. Inflated
salaries lead the pack of the tactics used. Posting misleading information
about the job description and benefits follow closely.

Wouldn't mind some VC-$ to launch.

From experience - most of the job boards are junk, including the ones on that
site.

~~~
devs1010
The problem with things like this is who is going to pay for it? Its a rather
small market (software developers).. I'm not sure its a viable business model
but more of an idea for an open source project

