
VLC removed from Amazon Fire TV store by VLC developers - lostmsu
According to VLC devs from their mailing list, VLC 3.0 was never approved for Amazon Fire TV store. Now the 2.1.1 got removed as well, and even got uninstalled from the sticks, where it was installed previously through the store.
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jbk
So, I am the one who disabled it from the Amazon Store. Not Amazon. So, the
issue is not that dramatic.

The reason is that they refused to approve the 3.0 version of VLC, which meant
that people were downloading a beta version from quite a long time ago, with
lots of bugs. So I preferred to disable it instead of having more people load
an old version.

The actual issue is that this precise version had a small database bug/issue
that is very annoying to fix/work-around, and when you update, you lose the
first audio playlist (video files, audio files, playlist files work fine). So,
I'm not even sure that we can fix that in a correct way. But, for Amazon, they
think it is a blocker. Sure, that meant that version is buggy, but that's even
more the reason to not have more people download it.

Remember, we don't make any money from VLC, even if it is free, you are not
the product (no ads, no spying, no telemetry).

Anyway, this is one of the reason why I dislike appstores: they make you lose
a lot of time jumping through hoops, and the quality is not even there. All of
those appstores have lots of crap in there. And, except the Google PlayStore
(that has other issues), all the interfaces to upload/edit are very bad and
buggy...

~~~
givinguflac
No disrespect intended, but I’d just like to point out-

“I don’t like app stores because they don’t have quality” and yet here they
are trying to ensure quality, and you’re upset about it because they’re trying
to stop users from having a bad experience by losing content they cared enough
to curate? I’m not entirely sure the problem is in the review process here...

~~~
jbk
Exactly my point: they annoy us over a slight bug, and yet avoid upgrade to a
stable version that fixes around 2000 bugs, over 2 years. So, for a small bug,
they let thousands get unfixed.

And go on the appstores: how many scams, fake VLC and so on, do you see? They
claim to do reviews to get quality, and yet so many apps are fake, scams, and
got approved nevertheless. It's the same on Apple, Windows, Android and
Amazon.

~~~
lowtolerance
A bug that results in data loss is not “slight” or “small”. I’d honestly
rather have an unstable beta app than a production release that doesn’t offer
a proper data migration. I’m disappointed that the VLC team would rather
remove their app from an app store (again) than fix an issue with their app.
At least Google is trying to look out for their users.

~~~
lowtolerance
If that were the case and the developers knew it, then they should have pulled
it from the store long before now.

Think about it - they didn’t pull the app because of the bugs. They pulled the
app because they don’t agree with Amazon (of all people) that releasing a
major version update with a bug _known_ to cause personal data loss is totally
unacceptable.

They’d rather not provide an app for the platform at all than work out a
solution to a “slight bug” that would cause their users on that platform from
losing their playlists during an update.

It seems to me that this is a case of a diva developer getting his feelings
hurt, not a reasonable decision based on an unconsistent approval process. I
can’t imagine a more used-hostile attitude than that.

Edit: somehow got it in my head that they pulled VLC from the Google Play
Store.

~~~
flyingcircus3
To me it sounds like you've essentialized the target of your ire, while
contextualizing what you prefer.

Even google shouldnt be above your reproach in a situation like this.

VLC is one of the shining beacons of the open source community, in my opinion.
Just like every successful project that retains it's core values, compromise
is key. The dude is all over this thread calmly explaining everything to
anyone who asked. How does any of his behavior fit into any reasonable
definition of diva?

~~~
lowtolerance
Above reproach? For what? Enforcing their quality standards?

You are placing the “shining beacon of the open source community” above
approach reproach, without a hint of awareness of the irony. Having a calm
demeanor when explaining that they pulled the plug on VLC for FireTV because
they couldn’t be bothered with fixing a “slight bug” that causes data loss
(and which Amazon views as a “blocker”) doesn’t make the decision any less
diva-like.

Unless a core value of VLC’s dev team is “egos over users”, I don’t see how
you could possibly argue that this is a compromise. A compromise would have
been leaving the old, buggy version of the app up with a note in the
description that it is no longer supported.

I find it really disheartening that this is even a contentious opinion in the
HN community. If the developer had come right out and said, “we just don’t
have the resources to dedicate to fixing a major issue with the way playlists
are exported from the current version of our app for FireTV, so we are
discontinuing the app, effective immediately”, that would have been perfectly
acceptable.

Instead, he diminished the severity of the bug and blamed the removal of the
app on Amazon’s uneven approval process, despite the fact that the app does
not meet one of the most basic criterion of Amazon’s approval process: “Apps
do not put customer data at risk once installed”.

It’s the developer equivalent of knocking the Monopoly board off the table
because you lost a turn. I don’t care how highly regarded the VLC development
team is, this kind of behavior should be scorned rather than excused.

~~~
flyingcircus3
As your fellow developer, if perhaps at a different level of the stack, I've
found that when my runtime performs in ways I didn't expect it too, the
eventual solution almost always involves me questioning my own assumptions.
The microcontroller didnt get statically discharged, my power rail is pulled
to ground with an incorrect resistor. I didn't discover a compiler bug, I put
a semicolon after my while statement, but before the curly brace.

I've also found that my ability to acknowledge this fact is linearly
proportional to the time it takes to solve the bug.

My point is that the maintainers of VLC sit atop a mountain of software, used
by tons of people with oodles of different use cases. The only methodology
that ever allowed them to grow to their current stature has been to do whats
right by the project. At some point, the large behemoths of Amazon, Google, et
al, have to make compromises as well. If they hire enough support staff to
have a personal relationship with every client, at the level of service you
get from your local credit union, that becomes prohibitively expensive. In
lieu of providing good service, they've settled for efficient service.

VLC is Kobe Beef. If Amazon wants to carry Kobe Beef, perhaps they should
provide the level of service that Kobe Beef consumers demand. Lots of other
folks love to advertise Kobe Beef, but balk at all of the transparency that an
authentic Kobe Beef retailer has.

Amazon loves to throw its weight around, and claim its for the greater good.
But to the extent they can't get what they want, they pull their top selling
products from their shelves. They've even done this with books, the one of the
markets they dominate to the highest degree.

But if we all demand that we be recognized as the one true expert in our
fields, compromise becomes a four letter word.

------
HipstaJules
Amazon Fire TV is terrible. I bought one and I'd love to switch to Chromecast.
It's so slow and limited. In the current state it's a meaningless product

~~~
baddox
I just picked up a Chromecast (I got the Ultra). On one hand, I like the phone
controls for the convenience of queueing up some random YouTube videos while
I’m lounging around the apartment or doing chores. On the other hand, the
phone-only controls can be inconvenient for more attentive viewing (like a
movie or TV show) because all actions require unlocking my phone and opening
the app that’s casting the video. This is particularly inconvenient when I
receive a phone call, since there’s no way to quickly pause.

~~~
mseebach
The pause and other playback control buttons on my TV remote works with the
Chromecast. It somehow gets passed on through the HDMI port.

~~~
isaack
You should thank HDMI CEC [1] for that.

[1]
[https://support.google.com/chromecast/answer/7199917](https://support.google.com/chromecast/answer/7199917)

~~~
bebna
U must be my soul buddy...

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Freaken
Couldn’t you submit the app with a different name such as VLC vNext ? This
would allow people on v2 to keep using it and bring v3 to the store ?

It’s a major release after all, so breaking changes are to be expected.

~~~
kuschku
This would probably be the best option – if you remove functionality, make the
upgrade optional.

~~~
jbk
The functionality is not removed, some playlists are just lost.

~~~
kuschku
That’s basically the same for the users, though. I’m currently planning a new
release for one of my own apps, and I’ve got a similar problem.

And still, I’d rather wait a few weeks with a release myself before I’d ever
release a version that deletes a user’s settings, or, much worse, their actual
data.

If I have time once I’m done with my releases, maybe I’ll be able to take a
look at the issue you’re having in VLC, and maybe I can fix it.

------
srge
That’s just my opinion but I don’t like the Fire TV.

For instance, it’s impossible to stream content from recent Amazon tablets to
Fire TV’s unless you hack some sort of DYI solution.

Returned mine pretty quickly. By comparison my 5 years old Apple TV works like
a charm.

~~~
RIMR
Amazon knows they have an inferior product. Why do you think they removed all
competing products from their website when they launched it?

~~~
kuschku
When Google allows Amazon (or open source developers) to receive Chromecast
streams, then that argument may hold some truth.

For now, Google v Amazon a fight between two anticompetitive proprietary
systems, neither of which should be supported by any consumer.

~~~
scarface74
Google allows Roku to receive Chromecast streams and they support AirPlay for
iOS devices.

~~~
kuschku
You are saying you can stream with any Chromecast-supporting app to a Roku?

I’m not talking about the open cast standard, which Amazon spearheaded (and
Roku and many apps support), I’m talking about the actual Chromecast protocol,
which according to Google, you are not allowed to reverse or implement
receivers for.

~~~
scarface74
After reading, it's more complicated...

[https://www.howtogeek.com/214943/how-to-use-your-roku-
like-a...](https://www.howtogeek.com/214943/how-to-use-your-roku-like-a-
chromecast/)

\- DIAL - Chromecast use to support DIAL and it's still supported by the
YouTube app and Netflix. Chrome also supports DIAL from computers.

-Miracast - both Android and Windows support it for screen mirroring.

So all of this time I thought it was the "Chromecast" protocol it's actually
two other protocols that do the same thing(?)

~~~
kuschku
And that's where the complexity comes in. Because it's 3 protocols, one of
which is backwards to the other, and Google disallows other manufacturers from
using one of these 3 protocols.

Once upon a time, you could use the Netflix app on a Kindle to stream to a
FireTV or a Chromecast, or the Netflix app from Android to stream to
Chromecast or FireTV.

Google has been fucking with the protocols to prevent that for a while, and it
caused lots of trouble for open source devs (and Amazon).

~~~
scarface74
So if you are in the Apple ecosystem. You get an AppleTV and you get the best
support for all of the popular services. Either using the native apps or
Airplay.

If you are in the Android ecosystem, you get a device like the Nvidia Shield
that does support Chromecast and Amazon Prime and native apps. On top of that,
you get a stand-alone Plex Server that supports transcoding.

If you don’t care about Chromecast support and you own an Android device and
you want something cheap, get something on the Roku platform and you get most
of the same benefits of a Chromecast and every streaming platform supports the
Roku.

So why fool with either the Amazon Fire Stick _or_ Chromecast?

When the 9 year old computer that I’m using as a Plex server gives out on me,
I’m thinking about just getting a Shield to replace it.

~~~
kuschku
> So why fool with either the Amazon Fire Stick or Chromecast?

Because I want to receive streams with my own software, and I want to stream
from all kinds of devices.

Having many competing standards sucks.

~~~
scarface74
If you want to stream "from all kinds of devices", why getba ChromeCast
instead of an Android based Nvidia Shield? It gives you more flexibility.

~~~
kuschku
Because I want the stream receiver to be my own software.

A common use case is that I play a game and want to stream it, but also want
to have music in background, and control that from my phone.

So currently I use YouTube TV mode in a browser elemnent integrated into OBS
as audio-only stream, with the youtube app’s cast mode to control it.

But obviously I’d like to make this nicer.

And I also want to stream music to my raspberry pi, so it can play it on my
sound system (which is dumb speakers with custom amp and setup)

~~~
scarface74
I’m still not getting it. If the Chromecast can support your use case, how
could the Nvidia Shield - a more flexible Android based device that also
supports the same protocol, not support your use case?

~~~
kuschku
Chromecast, the device, can not.

Chromecast, the protocol, could – if Google wasn’t banning developers from
using it.

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badsectoracula
While it certainly isn't as convenient as downloading it from the store, can't
you sideload the APK? Or does Amazon block sideloading?

~~~
jacquesm
It's a sign of the times that we now need a different word for what used to be
normal: installing software on hardware you own.

~~~
userbinator
What's more disturbing is the fact that a lot of people are completely fine
with something like this:

 _and even got uninstalled from the sticks, where it was installed previously
through the store._

In the physical world, it would be like giving to the companies of everything
you bought, permission to enter your house and remove or modify its products
at any time. It's perfectly reasonable to stop offering a product or broadcast
recall notices, but IMHO going beyond that is overstepping a boundary.

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elbubi
Hello!

I recently sold my Roku sticks purchased two fire sticks (with voice) just tu
use VLC for playing my DLNA files.

Sadly yerterday, when plugged them in and tried to install VLC, it doesn't
shows anymore on AppStore.

Searching I found this news about it being removed due to burocratic issues.

Is there any way to install it manually?

Kind Regards and thanks in advance!!!

~~~
Reegie
Hi did you have any joy re installing it? I’m having the same problems for
watching iptv through it! Thanks

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knelskid
So instead of catching that mouse running around the house, this guy decides
to burn down the house to kill the mouse.....classic

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themihai
Something tells me that any player that takes a signifiant market share will
be removed from FireTV, AppleTV etc..

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knelskid
It might have had some bugs but it was still working for most of us and doing
what was needed...i.e. play the media files from local storage........why on
the world you decided to remove it ? Sounds like you had a battle of ego's
within yourselves and Amazon and wanted to show that you had more
POWERRRRRRRRR!!!

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Hydraulix989
I think everyone just puts Kodi on their Fire TV anyways immediately after
unboxing it.

~~~
lostmsu
Any good tutorial? why are they not in the store?

~~~
Hydraulix989
a) Tutorials are everywhere on Google b) Potential piracy / Amazon wanting
control / business as usual

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foepys
Does anybody know if other video players are affected as well?

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azinman2
Link to the mailing list?

~~~
mappu
[https://mailman.videolan.org/pipermail/android/2018-April/01...](https://mailman.videolan.org/pipermail/android/2018-April/013657.html)
although it doesn't mention uninstalling from existing devices.

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Reegie
Hi, I’ve stupidly un-installed it from my firestick as I was having a few
problems watching my iptv through it..now I can’t install it as it’s obviously
not available. Is there any way I can get the old version back?? Thanks

