
Unfortunately, the Electric Scooters Are Fantastic - danso
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/05/electric-scooters-are-the-cargo-shorts-of-transportation/561440/?single_page=true
======
kcorbitt
My dream is that between these and electric bikes, we get critical mass for
real, separated bike lanes on all major roads in most US cities. Taking away a
lane of cars and replacing it with one for bikes/scooters vastly improves the
quality of life for both drivers and cyclists, if you can get high-enough
utilization. The cyclists will be safer, and there will be less traffic in the
remaining lanes because fewer commuters will be in cars.

I commute 9 miles one way into SF by electric bike, and while I love my
commute my quality of life would be so much higher if I didn't have to worry
about merging with car traffic at several points on the route, or (much worse)
cars randomly swerving out of traffic into the bike lane and stopping right in
front of me to drop off a passenger or whatever.

~~~
mft_
Couldn't agree more.

On repeated visits to NY, frustrated by the inefficiency of getting from A to
B, one of my repeating dreams is the idea of closing _every other_ street
(both N-S and E-W) in the grid system to cars, and only allowing bikes,
scooters, skateboards, and maybe buses. (Delivery traffic strictly outside
daytime hours).

Imagine the transport utopia that would gradually develop, as more any more
people not only feel safe to ride bikes, but realised that it represented the
most efficient solution.

~~~
bluGill
I think if streets were limited to delivery traffic and construction you would
be fine. Note that this needs to be real deliveries. Sort of like pornography
I know it when I see it, but I'm not sure I can define it well enough for a
law to work.

~~~
subculture
Time to disrupt the notion of 'delivery': Sign up to drop off a package or two
and get access to the internal city streets for x hours. What could go wrong?

~~~
bluGill
That is why it is hard. Delivery needs to have a definition that doesn't allow
that. Probably it needs to be so strict that a delivery driver cannot even buy
a soda at the store they are delivering to.

~~~
mft_
You could define it by volume or weight of package.

Package-carrying bikes can take a surprising amount.
[https://www.carvelo.ch/de/private/modelle/data/51.php](https://www.carvelo.ch/de/private/modelle/data/51.php)

Anything that can be carried by a bicycle courier, must be. Anything else,
<6am or >9pm (for example).

------
stcredzero
_can they succeed despite their essential dorkiness?_

Far less dorky than a Segway. I think they're playful enough to work from a
marketing perspective.

 _I was bored with new technologies, bored with their repetitive promises,
their glassy aesthetic, their oligarchic subsidization._

This sentence is fantastic and absolutely on point! The street finds its own
uses for technology.

 _On that first ride, a few things became apparent. First, I was more likely
to respect traffic laws on a scooter than on a bike, because I wasn’t as
worried about conserving my momentum on a scooter._

This is a profound observation. Robinson just earned his pay for the week! (A
no prize for someone who understands that reference.) What if virtually all
bikes had capacitors, regenerative braking, and electric assist? There would
be no reason for the endless "momentum hacks" bicyclists are guilty of.

~~~
jds375
Living in SF I think this is totally false. I see a bike on the street once in
a blue moon (and it’s often someone riding extremely slow). Bikes literally
don’t fit on most sidewalks and there are extremely clear bike lanes. Plus you
can’t pick up much speed before reaching an obstacle.

I consistently see people zooming down the sidewalks on scooters because: they
fit, they accelerate quickly, and they are often too slow to be in the bike
lane. Personally I think this was the massive failure by these scooter
companies. No one is riding them in the streets. They are on the sidewalk
going 10+mph. I really don’t think people would be quite as upset if they
weren’t constantly dodging scooters going down the sidewalk.

~~~
codezero
As a daily bike commuter – I see the scooters in the bike lane all the time. I
also think they go pretty fast and at the very least are small and nimble
enough that I never feel like they're really in my way. I much prefer them to
the docked bikes. People on docked bikes don't ride like other bike commuters,
they are a nuisance and feel like more of a danger to other cyclists and
traffic in general.

Anyways, I look forward to seeing how this plays out.

~~~
Johnny555
I've had the opposite experience -- the rental bikes are heavy and slow, but
they generally go in a straight line and are easy to pass.

Scooters tend to weave across the bike lane and need to be given a wide berth
when passing (not sure if it's a balance issue, or the rider is trying to
avoid hitting road imperfections with those tiny 4" wheels)

~~~
baq
> (not sure if it's a balance issue, or the rider is trying to avoid hitting
> road imperfections with those tiny 4" wheels)

Yes.

Source: was riding on a scooter to work for a couple of years. If wheels are
made of plastic instead of rubber and air, you can feel every tooth filling on
the smallest unevenness.

------
Someone1234
One of the reasons Segway failed (and what might stop electric scooter's
expansion) is legal problems. A Segway wasn't a road vehicle, but it also
wasn't legal on sidewalks either (in many places) leaving it in a legal grey
area.

A lot of traffic codes have specific rules and allowances for bicycles.
They're allowed on the road but without a lot of the normal requirements
(license plates, registration, insurance, etc). Segway (and other similar new
vehicles) have no such exception, but also aren't eligible for those things.

What I am getting at is, in some places, you could get a ticket for using a
Segway on the sidewalk AND public road. Meaning it was essentially limited to
private property only. That's a problem.

PS - Electric bikes kind of skirted around the law by looking and acting like
a regular bicycle, and not exceeding their speed. But even that hasn't been
without issues.

PPS - In some places Segways are legal via exceptions made for electric
wheelchairs on sidewalks.

~~~
wrs
Indeed, and Seattle and San Francisco have put the brakes [sorry] on scooter
and bike sharing temporarily while they get the legalities sorted out. It’s
odd to see those two cities being more conservative about new tech dads than
DC, but perhaps they’ve learned something. :)

~~~
ozten
Seattle has not "put the breaks" on bike sharing. Last year they removed the
station based bikes, but there are now tons of bike sharing going on from Ofo,
Lime, Pronto, and other competitors [1].

[1] [http://mynorthwest.com/977326/seattle-bikeshare-customer-
hab...](http://mynorthwest.com/977326/seattle-bikeshare-customer-
habits-2018/)?

~~~
oasisbob
The existing dockless bike sharing companies were approved under a provisional
permit, which has sunset. The city is gathering data and deciding where they
want to go from here:

[https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-
news/transportation/sea...](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-
news/transportation/seattles-bike-share-pilot-program-ends-this-month-but-the-
bikes-are-staying/)

------
joshe
Jump bikes is my current favorite, the scooters seem a little wobbly and the
little wheels don't like road cracks. And I like that they lock up and don't
end up in bushes.

Biking straight up SF hills in jeans without sweating is like having
superpowers.

One downside (for SF at least) is the robust market for stolen bike parts.

Competitively they are highly advantaged by having the scooters absorb all the
hate. The scooter companies ought to make sock puppet companies that dump
electric hover boards all over SF.

------
VBprogrammer
I keep being tempted by an electric scooter (of the Vespa variety) for
commuting . I'm moving a little closer to work which would mean I only need 30
miles per day plus reserves.

Unfortunately, the named brand ones are ridiculously expensive (£12k+) and
having ridden a couple of Chinese made motorcycles I'm disinclined to go for
the cheaper ones (£3-5k). Especially when you consider that even if the fuel
cost were completely free on the electric one it would take nearly 5+ years to
get the money back given a named brand 125cc petrol scooter can be bought for
next to nothing and will struggle to use more than £10 worth of fuel a week.

For me it would be an optimum balance of environmental consciousness and
convenience though. I guess that is worth something.

[https://www.bmw-
motorrad.co.uk/en/models/urban_mobility/cevo...](https://www.bmw-
motorrad.co.uk/en/models/urban_mobility/cevolution.html)

~~~
joshe
Would also love to buy a great electric motorcycle/scooter.

It's puzzling how much more robust the ebike market is compared to the
electric vespa market.

It isn't even a price issue, fancy ebikes are about the same cost. (The Genze
is $3699). It doesn't seem to be regulation, you don't have to pass a bunch of
tests or crash them to ship one like with a car.

Maybe the large number of bike part manufacturers and builders give it more
sophisticated supply chain? I really don't know.

~~~
bjourne
An e-bike with pedal assist requires you to pedal so you get at least some
exercise out from it. E-mopeds are also much heaver than e-bikes and may not
be allowed (depending on jurisdiction) on all bike paths. They are also locked
at their 25 km/h top speed, while e-bikes can go faster if you pedal.

~~~
morganw
> 25 km/h top speed

In California, mopeds can go 30 MPH (48.3km/h). I think it's 25 or 30 in most
US states. The GenZe has 4 horsepower which is the CA limit (used to be 2) but
some states only specify displacement as 49cc or less.

[http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection...](http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=406).

Mopeds are also allowed in bike lanes in CA, though police & cyclists don't
seem to know this.

Moped laws around the US:
[https://www.mopedarmy.com/wiki/Moped_Laws:_United_States](https://www.mopedarmy.com/wiki/Moped_Laws:_United_States)

edit: did some more research. US doesn't have the equivalent of a German Mofa
(25km/h) only Mokick (45km/h) [https://smartexpat.com/germany/how-to-
guides/transport/drivi...](https://smartexpat.com/germany/how-to-
guides/transport/driving/motorbikes-mopeds)

Though the stand-up scooters in CA do happen to have a 15 MPH limit.

------
testfoobar
Scooters are interesting on roads.

They are dangerous and reckless on sidewalks. Sidewalks are used by all sorts
of people: from healthy adults to a wide spectrum of mobility, sensorily and
developmentally impaired people.

Case in point: handicapped folks, elderly, and children.

A 75 year old woman out walking her dog is unlikely to have the situational
awareness (visual, audio, and cognitive degeneration) nor the quickness of
reflexes to respond to scooters on sidewalks.

A collision between a 170lb male on a scooter going 10mph and a 130lb elderly
person is going to lead to extensive injury, potentially life threatening,
injury to the adult.

A pelvic fracture is not an uncommon injury from falls in elderly and is
associated with a notable increase in probability of death.

Scooters on sidewalks are dangerous and should be immediately banned.

~~~
m4x
Wouldn't a 170 lb runner pose the same risk to an elderly person?

In all cases it is the responsibility of everybody using the footpath to
ensure they don't put others at risk.

Runners should feel free to use the footpath as part of their exercise - but
they shouldn't run blindly around corners. I feel the same way about scooters
- ride on the footpath all you like, but slow right down around other
pedestrians or blind spots so that people both _feel_ safe and _are_ safe.

------
joshuakcockrell
These scooters are getting stolen left and right in San Francisco.

I read the HN article last week about charging these (where they pay you to
collect scooters and you charge them over night), so I recently signed up to
become a charger for Bird scooters. When I first opened up the app to search
for ones to charge it showed dozens of these things[1] that had gone missing
in the Tenderloin. I went searching for some yesterday and after being unable
to locate about 5 in a row, I saw two homeless guys dissecting one. The
electronics were hanging out and they had screw drivers in hand.

Of course I didn't confront them, and I went home empty handed.

[1] Yesterday I counted ~33 that had gone missing in the Tenderloin within the
past two weeks. To put this in perspective, there are only about 75 - 100 of
them in the entirety of SF right now if you open up the Bird app.

------
catacombs
I don't get the hate. I get to work in 10 minutes flat compared to walking
more than half an hour. It's a convenient way of commuting, especially if the
trains and buses are unreliable.

I guess the people who hate on these scooters are the ones who can't find one
that has enough battery or isn't "offline" for some reason.

~~~
Johnny555
Some of the hate comes from cyclists who now have to contend with scooters
weaving around the bike lane, and from pedestrians that have to contend with
15 mph scooters on the sidewalk.

The author outlined the problem with sharing the roads with bikes:

 _Scooters accelerate out of a stop faster than bicycles, but the top speed of
most scooters is below that of all but the slowest bikes. So if you come out
of a stop next to a cyclist, you immediately lurch forward and pass them, only
to watch them pass you five seconds later. And it is annoying to pass someone
in the bike lane._

~~~
TulliusCicero
14-15mph is a perfectly fine speed. Any place that has a substantial % of bike
commuters will have plenty of cyclists at or below that speed.

Places where all cyclists are fast are usually just places where biking is so
uncomfortable/unsafe that only highly skilled and confident riders do it.
Meanwhile you look at Amsterdam and these scooters would be faster than
average there in the bike paths.

------
rhema
>Riding a scooter doesn’t feel like cruising on a Segway to me anymore, but it
remains socially conspicuous.

In the long run, it seems that ownership is moving towards the cloud model.
The same arguments for virtual machines in a server can be used for vehicles
and, likely, many other types of physical items. There is no doubt that a pool
of 100 scooters serving 1000 people is better for the environment than 1000
under-utilized scooters.

~~~
baxtr
That’s probably what’s going to happen with scooters and bikes. I’m not
convinced with cats yet though. I got some stuff that I want to be permanently
in the car.

EDIT: I meant cars ;-) but it’s so funny, I just leave it as is

~~~
djrogers
> I’m not convinced with cats yet though

I agree - while there have been cat rentals and cat coffee shops, they haven't
really taken off like this.

;-)

~~~
DrScump
All cat implementations I've seen are dockless, and many don't coexist well
with birds.

------
vinceguidry
Scooter share services seriously are awesome, they bring mobility to the
underserved in a way that buses extremely struggle to. They're awesomely
cheap, and Bird can add demand to any area simply by trucking in a new load of
scooters.

I don't know how long it'll last, but normal people can even make money
charging them. It's got me considering spending $200 on my own scooter, though
I think I'll just use the service until I'm ready to bite that bullet.

~~~
zzleeper
I wonder the same thing. How the hell do the economics of these things work,
if users pay almost nothing and birders get so much money daily?

~~~
vinceguidry
They can adjust pricing. What I'd be more worried about is theft. What happens
once someone figures out how to disable the locking and posts the howto
online?

~~~
VectorLock
There is no locking I don't think it just makes a racket when you take it when
its not enabled. It is a light scooter after all.

Apparently there is value in stealing them to harvest the batteries.

------
makewavesnotwar
This person has obviously never ridden an e-bike. E-scooters are decidedly
dorky. They can't corner well at high speeds. They carry almost no angular
momentum to keep you moving forward. The only cool thing about a scooter is
that you can easily hoist that 3 lb frame up and carry it with you without a
second thought... add an 8 pound motor + battery to that and you've lost all
your convenience when you have to climb several flights of stairs... An E-bike
on the otherhand can benefit from its girth... it makes it harder to steal if
you just add a cafe lock. That weight also makes it perfect for cruising. I
can ride 10 miles on convoluted paths without touching my handlebars because
of how predictable the ride is. I can ride up sharp grade hills at 20+ MPH
without breaking a sweat in 90+ degree weather. And while I'm effortlessly
cruising to my destination with minimal effort, I'M STILL PEDALING. It doesn't
matter if I'm putting minimal effort in while I'm getting where I'm going,
it's still exercise (not to mention way better from the perspective of
arterial hardening from unnecessarily standing like a jack ass on a dork
mobile). If you want to be totally lazy, get a Boosted board. If you want to
revolutionize your shit, go to your local e-bike dealer and get them to hook
you up with something actually meaningful.

~~~
pentae
Well the market has responded and it seems your pain points just don't matter
to the regular person. You're seriously underestimating the number 1 and
number 2 thing people care about.. convenience.

Who wants to own something and have another thing you have to worry about and
take everywhere with you? When you can just join an app, have no up front cost
and dump it on the street for the next person? That factor of convenience
beats the shit out of ownership.

Regarding handling - do you think someone with no experience riding a bike can
'effortlessly ride 10 miles on convoluted paths without touching the
handlebars' or did it take you years of riding experience to get that good? So
if you spent that same amount of time riding an e-scooter do you think you'd
have handling down to an art as well? I think you would, and how it handles
around corners wouldn't even be a consideration.

However theres a halo effect at play here which is good news: more people who
are using these services who have never used an e-bike or boosted board before
after seeing the benefits are now more likely to owning them. Or maybe even
just buying their own Xiamoi E-scooter.

------
siruncledrew
I wish more cities in the US would just copy the Netherlands. It’s like night
and day seeing the infrastructure and operation of bikes/e-bikes/scooters
between the US and Netherlands. It’s safe, efficient, and _actually makes
sense_.

US roads were made for cars. That’s just the honest truth. Cities need to do
more than just toss a bike lane on the side of the road and say they are “bike
friendly”. That’s not a solution, that’s some half-assed attempt by officials
to look like they give a damn.

~~~
TulliusCicero
Yup, painted bike lanes are nearly worthless. Nobody would accept having
"painted walk lanes" instead of sidewalks everywhere.

~~~
wool_gather
Painted bike lanes are not uniformly bad. They can be valuable, provided
they're wide enough and actually connect up with each other enough that you
don't just end up with "can't get there from here" syndrome. Except for the
idiots who think they're double-parking lanes, they do a pretty good job of
marking a "watch out, cars" zone.

Sharrows, on the other hand, are largely slaps in the face. They're put on
slow residential roads where I was perfectly fine riding anyways. Or they're
half-assed "look we support bikes" icons slapped right in the door zone onto a
stretch of potholes that cars run at 45mph. (My personal favorite is when a
perfectly nice marked lane dumps you into sharrows right before a confusing
intersection.)

~~~
TulliusCicero
Painted bike lanes are useful for only a tiny slice of the population:
cyclists who are both confident and okay with a fair amount of risk/lack of
safety. Most people aren't that; most people are open to the idea of cycling,
but only if it feels relatively safe and comfortable, and you can't get that
with no physical barrier between you and cars. Nobody puts their eight year
old in painted bike lanes on arterials.

Agreed that sharrows are essentially useless though. It's not that the idea of
mixing traffic has to be bad, but it only works if you have serious traffic
calming measures that pretty much force drivers to slow down and drive more
safely. Most of the time when sharrows go down, there's absolutely nothing
functional changed about a car-dominant street.

~~~
wool_gather
> only a tiny slice of the population

Hmm, very fair point. I admit that, biking support overall being what it is,
I'm mostly stuck on making things better for those who already bike (e.g.,
people like me, obviously). Expanding ridership to other groups seems like
another level entirely most of the time, although it would be great! I should
try to keep that aspect in mind more.

------
delbel
somebody should put wireless chargers into the cement and throw some super
capacitors onto these scooters for temporary boosts (like going up hill or out
of a corner, long stretches, etc)... like the f-zero charging/booster things.

------
evanb
At about $3 / ride and commuting both ways, aren't you better off buying your
own scooter at about 2 or 3 months? These things aren't so big that you have
to keep them outside or in a garage, like a bike. You can take them in and
fold it up and charge it under your desk.

~~~
TulliusCicero
There's a certain value to not managing the thing yourself. My wife bikes to
get around Munich, and has to deal with one of her bikes breaking on some way
-- flat/leaky tire, spokes broke, etc. -- a handful of times per year.

------
Legogris
I recently moved to Paris and I was surprised to see that these scooters are
super trendy now. The most common riders seem to be middle-aged and older posh
women who zoom to and from the metro with their noses in the air.

The dorks are mostly seen on electric unicycles.

------
clairity
i've tried both bird scooters and jump bikes in san francisco and really
enjoyed them both, to my surprise. the scooters are a little easier to
maneuver in traffic, while the bikes are faster and have longer range.

my bike was stolen a couple years ago, shifting me to lyft/uber as a result,
but lately i've become less enthusiastic about those services.

anyone have suggestions on electric scooter or electric bike models to buy?
ideally something light (and possibly foldable) for shorter trips (within 3-5
miles) and last mile connections off public transportation.

~~~
tlrobinson
You asked for scooter or bike recommendations, but I love the Boosted Board
electric skateboards for their portability and fun factor.

However, they're almost certainly more dangerous, and a higher learning curve
(though I hadn't skateboarded much before getting one). Just watch out for
Muni tracks, gravel, wet roads (especially on metal), and potholes.

~~~
clairity
those are neat but are not really for me. i can kinda sorta get away with
being on a scooter (not really), but i'd look downright silly on a skateboard.
=)

------
1123581321
Can the acceleration curve be adjusted to be more in line with bicycles? Or is
it feasible to rapidly toggle the throttle to slow acceleration without making
the ride too jerky?

~~~
tlrobinson
The acceleration is very slow, annoyingly so IMHO, but you can augment it by
pushing with your foot.

~~~
dpiers
This is intentional, and conserves a considerable amount of battery power.
Bird specifically instructs riders to kick push twice when starting from a
stop. Accelerating eats up significantly more energy than maintaining speed.

------
tobyhinloopen
So how are these Electric Scooters better than E-Bikes?

E-Bike has huge range and make riding the bike at speeds up to 30km/h a
breeze.

~~~
usaar333
Cheaper. An electric scooter is perhaps $100; an e-bike is often 4+. Oddly
though, Jump is actually cheaper than Lime once you ride for over 7 minutes..
perhaps that would change.

Another slight advantage is lower weight (obstacles), though in practice this
is unlikely to be a major issue.

Otherwise I agree that an e-bike is superior. I prefer the GoBike e-bikes to
Lime/Bird.

~~~
TulliusCicero
These electric scooters being used are thousands of dollars.

~~~
zootam
Nope, they are around $300-500

[https://qz.com/1257198/xiaomi-makes-the-bird-and-spin-
scoote...](https://qz.com/1257198/xiaomi-makes-the-bird-and-spin-scooters-
taking-over-san-francisco/)

------
tvanantwerp
Working in downtown DC, I've been blown away with the popularity of the
electric scooters. The bikeshare bikes mostly go unused (unless they end up in
the bottom of the Potomac), but I'm seeing multiple middle-aged business
people scootering along every day. Never would have guessed it in such a
serious town.

------
blakesterz
Apropos of nothing much... This seems to have the first use of the phrase
"oligarchic subsidization". At least the only one that's currently coming up
from Google for me.

~~~
Analemma_
Sooner or later there had to be a catchy term for the new(ish) business model
of artificially low, VC-subsidized prices intended to drive all the
competition out of the market and create a monopoly where you can then jack up
the rent. "oligarchic subsidization" is as good as any.

~~~
21
> then jack up the rent

But can they really do that? Another VC-subsidized startup can then come in
and apply the same strategy.

~~~
Analemma_
I don't think they can, which is why I think companies like Uber are massively
overvalued and these stupid food delivery startups are all doomed. But hey,
maybe my lack of vision is why I'm a working schmoe and VCs are millionaires.

~~~
Latteland
vcs are millionaires because they invest other people's money and only need a
little bit of success. why aren't we all trying to be vcs? lots of failures
are just fine.

------
unicornporn
I don't see why I would chose this over a bicycle. A bike will move as far as
I need. This (more or less) grinds to a halt when battery is depleted.

Bicycle: UX win.

~~~
TulliusCicero
Scooters require less skill to ride/are easier to maneuver, they're smaller
and so can be used on a sidewalk less awkwardly and are easier to park
inconspicuously. Also, if you have to suddenly "abandon ship" you're already
more or less standing upright, which is probably safer.

These are really only intended for trips of a few miles where battery life
isn't really a concern. If you want a longer trip then yes a bike is probably
a better idea.

------
mmjaa
I daily ride my bicycle 8km's to get to work, and back. Its pretty good
exercise, gets me really awake by the time I get to the desk.

However, I don't think everyone can do this. I suggest to my friends, equally
endowed with a beerly-gait as I, to get into it to .. but nope. City slickers
got no time to ride no bicycle, no 2 or 4 or 10 km's.

Pity really, because it absolutely improves life quality, imho.

------
ertand
I seriously don't understand how one scooter company could differentiate
itself from others significantly from business perspective.

~~~
meestaahjoshee
one difference i've already noticed between limebike scooters and bird is in
the scooters themselves.

limebike scooters' bells are on a flimsy spring so most of the time theyre
broken. the bell is pretty useful for alerting walkers ahead of you of your
presence without having to yell.

the bird scooters are also able to 'chirp' to help locate them - i've heard
limebikes do the same but i have not been able to find that feature in their
app.

overall i dont think this is an issue of a winner take all market - uber and
lyft seem to live in harmony and i take whichever is cheaper. for scooters,
i'd just take whichever one is closer, there is no brand loyalty or much
differentiation but there's room for multiple players atm.

~~~
tlrobinson
> the bell is pretty useful for alerting walkers ahead of you of your presence
> without having to yell.

Just to clarify, you're not supposed to ride these on sidewalks in most (all?)
places (though mixed-use paths are probably ok)

------
bjourne
3 miles in 10 minutes is 29 km/h which is quite fast. Not a speed I would ride
my bike in traffic without a helmet.

~~~
tobyhinloopen
Dutch guy here. 29km/h on a bike without a helmet is absolutely safe over
here, and everyone is doing it with E-Bikes all the time, every day. Never
have I heard of a friend or family member falling from their bike with any
injury on the head; A broken arm at worst.

~~~
mft_
While I appreciate that the statistics over the value of bicycle helmets
aren't always conclusive, _" 29km/h on a bike without a helmet is absolutely
safe over here"_ seems like a difficult and sweeping statement to
substantiate?

Are the pavements in Holland more forgiving when someone's head hits them at
~8 m/s?

" _Never have I heard of a friend or family member falling from their bike
with any injury on the head; A broken arm at worst._ "

Well, I see your anecdote and I raise you with my own: I once fell of my bike
at probably around 30km/h, breaking my collarbone. Additionally my helmeted
head hit the raised pavement stone hard enough to leave a big dent in my
helmet. I'm very glad that it didn't have the opportunity to leave the same
dent in my head.

~~~
ghaff
Helmets do seem to be at least somewhat of a cultural thing. I recently
returned from a trip to both Amsterdam and Copenhagen.

Essentially no one who isn't a young child wears a helmet in Amsterdam. (And
often not even them. You see small kids propped up on handlebars all the
time.)

In Central Copenhagen on the other hand, which would seem to have almost as
good biking infrastructure as Amsterdam, a lot of people do wear helmets. It's
still the minority--maybe 25%--but it's definitely not at all unusual.

------
49bc
I’ve driven high-and-low all kinds of vehicles, big to small fast slow etc. I
will say by far one of the most fun driving experiences you can have is a
small <50cc moped in the city.

Stuck in traffic? Get off and push it along the sidewalk. Park ANYWHERE.
Swerve and weave. So much fun.

------
digi_owl
Glanced at a TV the other day, and found a program showing off a large sized
electric "kickbike". It had the tires of a bicycle, but was operated like one
of these scooters. Even seemed to use much the same drive train etc of an
electric bicycle.

~~~
jandrese
Basically an adult version of a coaster bike?

I guess it simplifies the design by not having the pedals, chain, gears,
etc...; but you have the tradeoff of not getting that 100W of input from the
rider to extend the battery range.

------
personjerry
Wow, ads are getting smarter

------
microcolonel
Are Atlantic readers so self conscious about this stuff? I can't imagine being
so unsure of myself that a mere electric scooter would be a major hit to my
ego.

------
pwned1
I'm trying to find info on which cities have Bird, but can't find anything.
Can anyone help?

~~~
ziftface
For some reason they're listed on this page:

[https://www.chargers.bird.co/join](https://www.chargers.bird.co/join)

------
baybal2
In much of the world, a scooter means a lighter moped and not those things
people ride in US

------
diebir
Riding a bike in the US (cities) is a good way to die. It's silly dangerous.

------
chris_wot
I think the beauty of scooters is because you don't have to find parking.

------
Kiro
Wait, why aren't people stealing these things?

------
kazinator
> _First, I was more likely to respect traffic laws on a scooter than on a
> bike, because I wasn’t as worried about conserving my momentum on a
> scooter._

This jab at cyclists should be properly taken as representing solely the
author's attitude in the role of cyclist.

A scooter rider who is late would have motivation to break the rules.

All wheeled vehicles, regardless of whether they are motorized, as well as
pedestrians, break the rules from time to time.

~~~
clarry
Right. I tend to treat stop signs and red lights as yield signs (especially in
low traffic conditions) when on foot or bike. I'm sure I'd do the same on
scooter. Late or not.

It's a shame no startup can disrupt the outdated tech that is traffic lights,
which require people to stop, press a button and wait a minute in an
intersection with no traffic going the way they're about to cross.

~~~
vkou
> It's a shame no startup can disrupt the outdated tech that is traffic
> lights, which require people to stop, press a button and wait a minute in an
> intersection with no traffic going the way they're about to cross.

This technology already exists, city planners are the ones not rolling it out.

Many intersections in Vancouver, and its suburbs are pedestrian-controlled. If
you push the crossing button, and there is no traffic, the light will
immediately turn red, and let you cross.

------
jiveturkey
> _Unfortunately_

maybe i didn't read carefully, but i didn't catch in the article what he
proposes is unfortunate about it.

> _can they succeed despite their essential dorkiness?_

wait ... what?!?

a) dorkiness

b) _essential_ dorkiness?

wow. just wow. it doesn't seem like a clickbait-y sensationalist subtitle. it
seems like the author really means it. omg, am i a dork?? i love these
scooters. it never occurred to me _in the slightest_ that they are dorky. and
in fact, i see all kinds of beautiful people (and normal people) riding them.
is this maybe an east coast / west coast thing? Maybe the author cares about
presenting a certain adult image, and the scooter makes him feel childish,
since yes, they are fun to ride. That's what makes me think it's coastal.

I love how the photo shows folks riding without helmets. AFAIK all the scooter
companies make clear you must use a helmet (I don't). At least in the photo
they are in the bike lane and not the sidewalk.

> _Doesn’t riding in the bike lane annoy cyclists? Yes, of course. Cyclists
> are annoyed by most stimuli._

lol

~~~
xenihn
Annoying you (and appealing to those who agree with them) is the author's
intent. You are thinking about the article, maybe you'll even share it. The
only thing that matters is grabbing your attention, and potentially the
attention of people you know.

~~~
DubiousPusher
You might be overthinking this. I think it's just supposed to be funny. The
whole article has an over the top snide style that is probably equal parts
serious and jokey.

------
carapace
tl;dr: An inconsiderate jerk gets addicted to electric scooters.

> terrorizing its wretched NIMBYs

C'mon with that.

> I pushed down the throttle and lurched forward. I released it and the
> scooter stopped, nearly throwing me off. As I tried to figure out my
> balance, a teenager ran up to the scooter next to mine, activated it, and
> drove away. I had never felt so old.

This is a young person's service. No helmets or elbow pads.

> It’s best ridden with one leg on the platform and the other hanging off the
> side for emergency braking, or fleeing.

So it's dangerous.

> I was more likely to respect traffic laws on a scooter than on a bike,
> because I wasn’t as worried about conserving my momentum on a scooter.

Author is an admitted scofflaw.

Folks, _momentum is the killer._ It's velocity squared, so half as fast is one
quarter as much "oompf" to cause injury or death. I bike (I don't own a car)
and it always cheeses me off to see cyclists pulling dumb stunts in traffic.

These eletric scooters are _mostly_ a great idea. It's that margin of failure
modes that we have to watch. People being people there are going to be riders
who ride like idiots and crash into people, there are going to be people who
park them in stupid places. There are already "turf wars" starting among the
folks who collect and charge them at night.

This article is a puff piece.

~~~
mfringel
Thank you for posting this. I was running low on middlebrow dismissals today,
and I'm full up now.

~~~
carapace
So full you've got one left over for me. Cheers.

------
iambateman
Fun read.

I personally feel like the dork-factor on a Segway comes from it being ridden
with both feet facing forward. It gives the ride an alien-like hovering
quality.

On the other hand, I don’t judge people on skateboards, particularly because
I’m used to the sideways stance. Scooters are somewhere in the middle, but at
the very least they don’t make you look like someone from outer space.

