
Android Teleportation (or silly location restrictions) - gingerlime
http://blog.gingerlime.com/2014/android-teleportation-or-silly-location-restrictions/
======
SyneRyder
As annoying as location restrictions are, one reason is often taxation laws.

I would _love_ to offer my apps for sale in every country in the world, but as
a non-European, to legally sell my apps on the Google Play store in European
countries, I have to apply to an EU country to establish a business nexus
there, and file VAT tax returns every few months. (Yes, the EU requires non-EU
businesses to remit VAT on digital software sales, they regard online sales as
occurring where the customer resides.) It's a ridiculous amount of bureaucracy
for a 99c app that is unlikely to earn much anyway, so right now I just
exclude sales to European countries instead.

There's a blog post from Retro Dreamer with more info on this, as one example
of location restrictions being a result of tax laws:
[http://retrodreamer.com/blog/2012/03/why-dont-we-have-
paid-v...](http://retrodreamer.com/blog/2012/03/why-dont-we-have-paid-
versions-on-the-android-market/)

So don't always blame the content creator, the bottleneck might be closer to
where you are. I love Berlin, but it also has some of the worst geolocation
restrictions due to local laws (look into GEMA blocking music on YouTube, if
you haven't encountered it yet - even if the artist wants you to listen to it,
GEMA can block the song because it hasn't been officially registered with
authorities yet).

~~~
Houshalter
This is probably a stupid question but how would they go after you for not
paying the tax if you don't even live in the country? Would they even be able
to detect it? And is there any basis for blocking based on IP, instead of a
disclaimer or some other method of identification?

~~~
SyneRyder
If you don't live in an EU country, they generally can't / don't pursue you,
but if you travel to Europe (as I do sometimes) they could arrest you when you
cross the border. There was a case of that happening to a developer in the
desktop software days, but I can't find a link to the news story now.

In practice, the EU pressured US-based payment gateways into handling it on
behalf of developers (which is really best for everyone, and essentially what
Apple & Amazon already does today).

If you don't mind ignoring EU laws, I'm sure most people on the Google Play
store are also ignoring them and getting away with it. But there are lots of
Nintendo IP infringements on the Google Play store as well, so the fact that
it's common doesn't necessarily make it legal.

For some history, there's an old Business Of Software thread on the debate,
including folks like Andy Brice & Patrick McKenzie chiming in with their
views:

[http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?biz.5.465929.3...](http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?biz.5.465929.30)

------
myko
This is really annoying. While traveling in Europe last fall I couldn't
download movies from Google Play on my device for the flight back, even though
I had purchased them before leaving the US!

Really bad user experience.

------
herbig
"Those location-based restrictions are totally silly. I can’t figure out any
logical reason to block people from accessing (and paying!) for your apps and
content if they happen to be elsewhere."

Some apps depend on data that is country specific, or do things that other
countries don't need or understand. Or perhaps there isn't much of a market
for it there, so the number of users being low may make the app worthless.

Any time someone downloads an app and it doesn't work, they don't understand
it, it's not in their language, or it doesn't provide them immediate value,
you run the risk of a 1 star review.

------
WildUtah
It's not silly at all.

The legal situation in some countries is dangerous or even crazy. If you can
protect yourself from exposure to it when you're vulnerable, then you should
consider doing so.

For instance, Japan has long copyright terms. Copyright extends to the end of
the life of the author plus fifty years. But the EU has ludicrous copyright
terms that are at least 20 years longer. Copyright in the USA is permanent
(technically, the congress has to comply with Disney's lobbying every 20 years
to keep extending it, but the vote is unanimous). So there's a lot of material
.jp servers and apps might want to offer you that's illegal in the EU or USA.

Even worse than that, the USA has a patent system where in app purchase is
covered by dozens of patents, online backup or storage is covered by thousands
of patents, basic common UI elements are almost all patented, and so on. You
can't write even a trivial app without either infringing or buying millions of
dollars in licenses. App authors just have to be comfortable with infringing
and accepting effectively unlimited liability.

Well, okay, I guess it is silly and crazy, but it's not the fault of Google or
app publishers. The legal systems of modern nations as they apply to the
internet are nasty and they're all different. Wise people might be reluctant
to expose themselves unnecessarily.

~~~
gingerlime
> Well, okay, I guess it is silly and crazy, but it's not the fault of Google
> or app publishers. The legal systems of modern nations as they apply to the
> internet are nasty and they're all different.

OP here. The fact that a media like (e)books become entangled in this mess is
totally absurd. Think of a paper book suddenly becoming illegal (regardless of
its contents) as soon as it crosses some border.

> Wise people might be reluctant to expose themselves unnecessarily.

Wise people should aim to please their customers, and build a good and honest
relationship with them. I think those who embrace the new medium and
understand its potential to reach a far wider audience would succeed. Sticking
to old rules and regulations that fail to catch-up with progress won't solve
any problem.

I also think consumers should aim to acquire media that is not bound to the
delivery mechanism. And it should also be within the interest of authors and
publishers.

Why can't I choose the app to read my ebook independently of the ebook
itself??

~~~
WildUtah
>>The fact that a media like (e)books become entangled in this mess is totally
absurd.

Yes, of course. But it's not Google's fault. The publishers and the
governments set the rules.

>> Think of a paper book suddenly becoming illegal (regardless of its
contents) as soon as it crosses some border.

One of the principal jobs of US Customs is seizing illegal books and other
items that infringe on copyright, trademark, and patent privileges.

The Supreme Court recently reversed precedent to allow importation of
textbooks that are legally published under license from US publishers. Until
then, it was presumptively illegal and the court gave publishers a simple
formula to make it illegal again. [0] It's also not legal to import items
--presumably including books -- that may have trademarked logos imprinted on
them without the consent of the trademark holder and those trademarks can be
used to prevent importation of items (e.g. watches or books) whose function is
unrelated to the trademark itself. [1]

>> Sticking to old rules and regulations that fail to catch-up with progress
won't solve any problem.

It solves the problem where the people enforcing those rules can put you in
jail.

>> I also think consumers should aim to acquire media that is not bound to the
delivery mechanism.

Say goodbye to the cloud. Actually, that's not such a bad idea. [2] It sure
limits your ability to access media, though. And subjects you to a lot of
border searches.

[0]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirtsaeng_v._John_Wiley_%26_Son...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirtsaeng_v._John_Wiley_%26_Sons,_Inc).

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega_S.A._v._Costco_Wholesale_...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega_S.A._v._Costco_Wholesale_Corp).

[2] [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/cloud-to-butt-
plus...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/cloud-to-butt-
plus/apmlngnhgbnjpajelfkmabhkfapgnoai?hl=en)

------
DominikR
> Those location-based restrictions are totally silly. I can’t figure out any
> logical reason to block people from accessing (and paying!) for your apps
> and content if they happen to be elsewhere.

To give you an example why this makes sense:

One of our apps uses local dialin numbers to allow our customers to make cheap
calls to foreign countries.

Since we do not have local dialin numbers in every single country, we limit
the access to those countries.

If we didn't limit the access the app would either be useless to some
customers, or useless AND very expensive (if for example a US customer routed
via German dialin number to his destination)

So to me, this is a feature, you often just don't have the information about
the technical or regulatory reasons why an app is restricted.

------
corresation
As a Canadian who endlessly faces geo-restrictions on US-based content, it
seems inaccurate to hold DVD regionalization as some bygone oddity -- it is
very much alive and well, maybe more prevalent than ever.

The logical reason is of course business optimization. The people who licensed
content to a Japanese ebook bookseller don't want them taking sales from other
licensees in other areas. The television program that is on Hulu doesn't want
to be seen by Canadians, where entirely different licensees pay big money for
a monopoly on the content. And so on.

And of course the Android store lets you limit apps to certain countries often
for entirely practical reasons. When the Chromecast was only available in the
US, the app was similarly restricted to only the US, presumably to avoid
support and other issues outside of the country.

~~~
gingerlime
Similarly to my comment above, I think there's an unnecessary entanglement of
delivery mechanism (the app) and content (the ebook).

Authors and publishers should realise the potential to reach audiences that
would otherwise not be accessible, and make the most of it. Instead they lock
themselves and take away one of the amazing benefits of this new format.

I think the DVD region protection has clearly failed. Most players can be
switched to region-free mode, and it's much easier obtaining copies of the
media via file sharing or otherwise (and in many cases it would be legal to do
so if you own a copy of the DVD).

I was hoping that by now people will learn from the mistakes of the DVD region
protection and the frustration it brought to customers who paid for your
product and figure out something better by now. But this stupidity will likely
to continue, until it fails again.

------
mindslight
This thread is full of purely self-inflicted problems.

Stop. Patronizing. The. Dinosaurs.

