
Life Hack - The 30/30 Minute Work Cycle Feels Like Magic - chetan51
http://chetansurpur.com/blog/2010/11/magic-work-cycle.html
======
DanielBMarkham
I did 50-10s for many years -- and was productive as hell doing it.

I think the numbers vary depending on the person and the project, but
absolutely, having the discipline to push away from the desk and change
context puts your productivity in warp gear. It works by allowing you mind to
work on the problem while you play.

By the way, to let another secret out of the bag, this process of engineered
distraction also works very well with teams.

Many times we confuse stubbornness with determination. Sitting there staring
at the screen does not a work product make.

But I'll add one caveat -- the reason I got away from this (and am now only
getting back to it) is because the internet itself has become the "getting
away" activity. This leaves you at your desk checking emails, updating
twitter, etc. In such a case, you're not allowing your subconscious to work on
your problem at all. Instead, you're throwing a bunch more stuff at it. So in
retrospect I think its critical to physically detach yourself from your
technology. A stand-alone game would be fine. Sitting at the terminal
listening to your email and IM chimes while you play a flash game would not.

EDIT: It's also interesting to note how hard it is to pull away from your work
-- both when you're loving it and when you're hating it. I don't think it's
ever easy, but after a while you get into a "rhythm" and it all just kind of
flows.

~~~
jonhendry
I think my high school classes were on a 50/10 schedule.

~~~
spicyj
Mine are on 51/5.

~~~
aik
Where do the 4 missing minutes go?

~~~
scw
Many US high schools don't rely on hourly scheduling, so classes may end at
arbitrary times: I finished at 2:11pm daily.

~~~
golgo13
I thought it was just our school district. We got out at 14:32. Why not
14:30??

------
edw519
The concept is excellent, but the ratio doesn't work for me.

I prefer 42/18.

42 because it is the Ultimate Answer of Life, the Universe, and Everything:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrases_from_The_Hitchhiker%27s...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrases_from_The_Hitchhiker%27s_Guide_to_the_Galaxy)

and 18, because it is the Gematria for the word "life":

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gematria>

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chai_%28symbol%29>

If I'm going to adopt a system, my inner nerd insists upon increasing
efficiency by using components with multiple purposes.

~~~
silentbicycle
The Pomodoro Technique(TM) is essentially the same, but waltzing in 25/5 time.
A longer interval makes more sense to me too, though. Maybe 45/15 or 50/10;
either way, it helps block out distractions - "No, _self_ , I committed to
working on this for another fourteen minutes."

I wrote an Emacs work / rest timer (<http://github.com/silentbicycle/zwiebel>)
for that sort of thing, if anybody's interested. (I hooked it up to an XOSD
(<http://ignavus.net/software.html)-based> alert.)

~~~
stcredzero
I used to use 45/15 for studying. I could do _amazing_ feats of rapid learning
in college that way.

------
ojbyrne
If you're flexible about the second 30, I find this works really well with
working from home, because the second 30 can be typical personal chores. Wake
up, work for a bit, then make coffee. Work some more, then eat breakfast. Work
some more, then have a shower. Work some more, go for a walk. Etc, etc.
Sometimes 5-10 minute breaks, sometimes an hour or more.

~~~
amadiver
I'd be worried about intermixing work + life like that. I've recently tried to
be better about keeping my mornings and nights work-free, and I feel better
because of it. Do you find that to be a problem at all, and if so, how do you
deal with it?

~~~
cullenking
Don't mix personal life (people) and work this way, but for random chores it's
fine. I try to give the dog three walks a day this way, which really helps
both our sanity. Additionally, I try to get some stretching/pushups/situp
breaks mixed in this way. I am not strict (meaning, don't at all) about
following a particular timing, just when I feel my brain start to wander. I'll
be trying to follow something more strict this week to see if there is
something to it.

~~~
ojbyrne
I've been a programmer of one sort or another for close to 30 years. Personal
life?

~~~
cullenking
I was thinking of my situation when I mentioned this - working from home and
having roommates is rough. It's too easy to have a girlfriend or roommate
distract you in your ten minute break. My girlfriend assumes I am fair game if
I come out of my office, even after repeated "i am at work" conversations. I
think most people just don't understand working from hom and how difficult to
stay on track it can be.

------
hackoder
The real magic? Learn your body/mind's rhythm. Sometimes you'll do productive
work for hours. Sometimes you'll need frequent breaks.

Intrinsic (type of work, work environment, deadline, depth) and extrinsic
factors (such as food, relationships, etc) will affect this rhythm and you'll
have to be smart enough to realize when to respect your body's wishes and when
to ignore them (feeling bored may have to do with not getting enough sleep, or
maybe you just feel like procrastinating. Learn to figure out which).

------
jamesjyu
People who know my previous comments might think I sound like a broken record
-- but, this is the exact reason why I love having a table tennis table at the
office. It's the perfect distraction to coding that focuses on pure reflexes
and hand-eye coordination.

After a game of ping pong, my mind is usually cleared and can tackle the next
problem. Lots of +1's to the idea of zoning your brain out of the problem area
for a while to get your subconscious working.

~~~
crizCraig
We have a ping pong table at work, but I can't say it helps me feel refreshed.
I often need a breather and to cool off after one of our grueling five game
matches. Of course, we might go a little overboard since we have a
professional player coach us every Friday and hold our own charity
tournaments. haha. work hard, play hard or something like that ;)

~~~
trafficlight
A professional ping pong coach? You guys are dedicated.

~~~
crizCraig
Yes. We are. Sometimes the coach is the only reason we play for a whole week
though. Needless to say, our coach does not approve. :)

------
gcv
For people who do something like this: how do you manage logistically? Do you
set an alarm? Do you just know when your 30 minutes (or 42, or 50) are up? Do
you always keep an eye on the time? I'm curious because the concept seems like
it could work, but I lose track of time easily.

~~~
kentosi
+1 because I think that this is an important question.

It seems that the intent of this method is to increase productivity. In saying
this, nothing kills productivity more than deadline tension. Having to
constantly look over at the time would no doubt have this effect.

~~~
merijnv
Well, this morning after reading this I threw together a script in 5 secs to
do this for me.

I'm using OS X and like everyone this means I have Growl installed for various
applications. I figured that it should be easy enough to announce my times
using that.

Looked around, found the commandline tool growlnotify and 5 seconds later...

    
    
        #!/bin/sh
    
        while true; do
            sleep $((30*60))
            growlnotify -swn Timer -m Playtime! Timer
            sleep $((30*60))
            growlnotify -swn Timer -m Worktime! Timer
        done
    

...was born.

~~~
lvillani
And for those of us with Linux (needs notification-daemon and libnotify):

    
    
      #!/bin/sh
      
      while true; do
            sleep $((30*60))
            notify-send -i applications-games -t 60000 "Play"  \
                "Hey, it's time to take a break\!"
            sleep $((30*60))
            notify-send -i applications-office -t 60000 "Work" \
               "Now get back to work ..."
      done

------
JoelMcCracken
For a long time now, I have wanted to code in a cabin in the country.

Just imagine going outside and chopping wood, hauling it back in, and setting
your fire correctly. I can hardly imagine a more ideal alternative activity to
coding for that second length of time.

~~~
joeyh
I'm there, solar powered cabin, wood stove. Works great, my concentration is
much better here.

I couldn't hold to a strict time-based rule though. I prefer not to interrupt
flow when I'm in flow. Anytime I get stuck I go chop wood or haul water, or at
night, look at the stars.

~~~
JoelMcCracken
Where do you live? If you'd rather chat personally use first.last@gmail.com.
Where my name is within my username.

------
amanuel
This reminds me the Pomodoro Technique. <http://www.pomodorotechnique.com/>

I bought a pomodoro iphone app and tried it for about a week or so, alas 25
mins was just too short for me.

I generally find 45/20 to be about right balance for me. I now use Vitamin-R
(Mac App) to track time/goals.

~~~
kacy
I'm currently using Concentrate (<http://getconcentrating.com>), and I love
it. Checking out Vitamin-R tonight! Thanks for the suggestion! :-)

~~~
guynamedloren
Wow, that looks amazing. Website blocker and everything. Now that I see it,
that just seems like such an obvious solution. Why am I not using this
already?

Just looked closer at the rocket company and software, and they do awesome
work.

------
andrewce
I use this work pattern when I'm doing particularly distasteful work, and it
generally works well.

The only thing I'd advise is that if you're in a state of flow (in which the
passage of time just disappears and your focus zeroes in completely), don't
worry about maintaining a rigid time schedule.

Every so often, when I'm writing, I forget to check the clock and then it is 3
hours later and I realize that I've missed a meal. I wouldn't trade those
times for very many things.

~~~
chetan51
That's a really good point, and I should have mentioned that in the article.
Thanks for the comment!

------
dpatru
This just reinforces the suspicion I've had for some time now that time
working is not tightly related to accomplishment, especially if the work is
intellectual.

------
JimmyL
I did an hour-on/hour-off cycle when I was in school studying for exams each
semester, and it was great. Working for an hour meant that I could nail a
solid two concepts, and then go do something else for an hour, and then come
back and spend an hour on some practice problems that used those concepts. I
remember initially trying a shorter 30-30 cycle, but when a problem takes 20
minutes to do (by design) subbing out at 30 didn't really get much done.

I also found it let me work much longer. I'd get to the library at 10am, work
one-on/one-off until 11pm or so, go home and watch a bit of TV, and repeat -
for three weeks straight, only interrupted by days when I had actual exams, on
which I'd do about four hours off after the exam and get back to work.

------
topherjaynes
Definitely, this model did wonders for me in Gradschool, but I am wondering if
anyone has tried doing this in a corporate environment? I just started my
first gig at a large company. I take "walking breaks" to circle the block
several times a day to clear my mind and people seem incredulous that I am not
tolling at my desk. Wonder how they would feel if I was devoting 4.5 hours of
my day to "fun."

~~~
maukdaddy
I take walking breaks around the block as well (downtown Chicago). Definitely
helpful. If others question, just remind them of the total time smokers get
during the day. No one questions them.

------
nikster
This is why smokers have a huge advantage. They go out for a smoke break every
hour. Doing _nothing_ but smoking.

I will try this, sans the smoking, starting now. Goodbye.

~~~
corin_
The smoking is what makes it so enjoyable ;)

------
anon8712
A question to all the excellent commenters here. I work at a place where the
company culture considers developers the same way as Macy's employees. 10
minute breaks for every 4 hours you work. Surf the net, chat on IM, everything
counts as work....except stepping away from the computer. Be seen away from
your desk more than necessary, you get warned of 'not being available during
core hours of business'. I am a contractor and I get paid very well to care
too much about the company culture.

My productivity is not the best but according to them, I am a star performer.
I, personally can't sit longer than an hour without needing a break. I worked
for startups with ping pong tables and one large workstation vendor that
recently ceased to exist. I miss the culture at those companies.

The company culture where I work has gotten to me, where I am considering
leaving my contract to focus on my personal projects. What would you do?

~~~
mattm
I am the same way. I need a stretch break every hour.

When working in an office, I will take my stretch break and no one has said
anything to me yet. If I was in your situation though, I would leverage the
fact that they consider you a "star performer." Talk to your manager that you
believe the breaks are what make you productive and see if he will turn a
blind eye to them.

If he doesn't agree, then maybe that tells you your productivity is not really
valued there as much as it would be someplace else.

------
JimboOmega
I really don't see how you can do this in a normal work setting. If I work for
30, take 30 off... an 8 hour work day takes 16 hours...

Even if I got 16 hours of work done in that time, it does not matter really to
my employer, who would still see it as 8 hours. Because we bill by the hour,
what matters is the # of hours that are worked, not how much work gets done in
them.

That said breaks in a lot of tasks are immensely useful. I can't remember how
many times I've given up after getting stuck on a work task to come in the
next morning and figured it out in 30 minutes.

I wish productivity mattered more :(.

~~~
mattm
Well this is a problem with the system. Sure, in the short term you are
billing by the hour, but in the long term you are really getting paid for
results.

Just try going a few weeks sitting at your desk without getting any work done
if you don't believe me.

Recently on HN, I read a comment suggesting to bill by the week instead of the
hour. An hour is too short of a time period to actually produce anything
meaningful but you can get a lot done in a week. I think this method of
billing would work much better. I haven't used it yet but I will propose it
for my next contract.

~~~
JimboOmega
When your customer is the government, indirectly, by way of a fixed-fee
contract, the actual impact of your quality is often hard to see.

In the typical model, a manager's highest priority is to reduce indirect
charges and make sure as much as possible is charged to a contract.

Now I'm not saying anyone is out to defraud, or charge time inappropriately,
or etc. But what makes the company money is time it can charge to the gov't.
Therefore if they see you spending half your time goofing off, but still
getting more done - from their point of view, their legal obligation is to
make sure they are charging correctly.

I cannot imagine trying to justify charging half of your time indirectly, with
the caveat that "hey, I'm getting even more done". Financially that would be a
disaster for them. The only way for it to work out would be to bid double for
contracts, which, given how bidding works... doesn't work.

~~~
krschultz
That is because the 30/30 ratio it terrible. I do 50/5 or even 58/2 and it is
enough. You need to get up about once an hour and just step away from the
computer. It helps a lot to go outside but that can be difficult, so I usually
settle for a quick walk around the floor of my building which takes around 2
minutes. Nobody minds.

------
adorton
This sounds like an interesting idea for personal projects. My boss might
raise an eyebrow if he saw me playing games or surfing the web for half of my
day.

~~~
krschultz
I think you specifically don't want to play games or surf the internet. I work
in a big building, so about once an hour I get up and go for a 5 minute stroll
and come back to my desk. Though I do a lot of work with other people in the
building so I guess people just think I'm going to talk to someone I'm working
with.

------
tnt128
I use a similar pattern, but instead of 30/30, I do 75/30, here are the
reasons, 1\. I need at least 5 to 10 mins to pick up what's left. 2\. Work
without distraction never happen(people talk to you, have to open the door for
someone, answer the office phone etc). If that happens, I need another 5 mins
just to remember I was doing. 3\. My productivity picks up after the initial
20mins, and it lasts about 45 to 60 mins. 4\. A few things could happen after
75mins of coding a) feature done or bug fixed - checkin code, git push. done
take a break b) encounter a problem, internet searching - stop and take a 30
mins break, helps a lot. c) starting checking facebook, hacker news, email etc
- stop and take a break. d) feature is not done, and I have not encountered a
problem - this is the only time I might not take a break, but every time I
didnt, I found myself ended up checking email and facebook a lot :)

30/30 sounds great, for me, 75/30 give me enough time to finish a feature or
fix a bug. 4.

------
khookie
I guess any rational sounding justification will do eh - 30mins work and
30mins break? Gimme a break... you're wasting so much time it's not funny.

But I guess you are what you want to believe -
[http://news.stanford.edu/news/2010/october/willpower-
resourc...](http://news.stanford.edu/news/2010/october/willpower-resource-
study-101410.html)

Not saying the principle is bad, you just need to make the reward
significantly cheaper than what it is now.

------
egb
For those who use Merlin Mann's (10+2)*5 ratio
([http://www.43folders.com/2005/10/11/procrastination-
hack-102...](http://www.43folders.com/2005/10/11/procrastination-hack-1025))
and have an iPhone, check out my timer app for it:

[http://itunes.apple.com/app/10-2-x5-procrastination-
hack/id3...](http://itunes.apple.com/app/10-2-x5-procrastination-
hack/id314598572?mt=8)

------
rguzman
I like the concept and I personally use variations of it. However, I find that
30/30 is not only the wrong ratio (1:1) but also the lengths don't work too
well for certain types of activities. c.f.
<http://www.paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html>

------
sdizdar
The concept is excellent. And here is what I use to achieve the exactly same
thing: <http://senadreport.com/post/1472323819/how-to-stay-focused> The ratio
for me is maybe 15/45.

------
manish
Definitely worth a try. I am concerned about my discipline to come back to
work after playing a game for 30 mins. May be playing TT would be better idea,
since I feel playing physical games refreshes me more that video games.

------
javan
I would really like a timer app that blocks social, distracting sites during
the work sprint so I'm reminded if I start to stray and then unblocks them
during the rest.

~~~
jat850
I'm not sure if by "app" you meant app specifically for a smartphone, or if
you meant for a PC - but I believe RescueTime might do what you're looking for
(and they're a YC company I believe):

<http://www.rescuetime.com/>

------
Void_
I don't know if I could get back to work easily after 30 minutes on Facebook
or playing World of Warcraft. Probably not.

------
seejay
up voted for the statement: "Time is now my bitch" :D

The idea itself sounds pretty awesome too... will definitely try it.

------
MarkNederhoed
The great debate: Do you start with 30 minutes of twittertime or do you start
your day working?

------
craigbellot
Already using this. Can't stay off facebook for more than 30 min anyway...

------
Dramatize
I'm going to give this a try for my after work side projects.

------
mkramlich
Sounds like the key is to (1) really work when you're supposedly working
(don't check email, don't read RSS, etc.) and (2) take breaks to refresh. Both
of these are very old and well known techniques for maximizing health and
productivity. Whether there's something magical about the 30/30 split, and
forcing yourself to always switch hats like that, regardless of the actual
specific situation: that, I'm not so sure of the general applicability of. I
often find it takes me a while to get in The Zone, and when I'm Hot it's best
to keep Pounding Out The Code and not force myself to stop and go play a game
or whatever.

------
devmonk
To start with, the author says he switched to Colemak keyboard layout.
Interesting, but about as useless as Dvorak. Unless you get everyone to switch
to it, you will be disabled whenever you switch to someone else's computer, a
kiosk, etc. Why bother?

He mentions having switched to biphasic sleep. If he said- I don't use
electricity at night and just go to bed and wake up with the light, then if he
got up during the dark hours, that's fine. But scheduling it and forcing your
body into a strange deprived sleep pattern is bad for you. Napoleon slept ~4
hrs a night. He was successful for a time, well- except for attempting and
failing to conquer the world. Poor decisions may not have been made with more
sleep.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biphasic_sleep>

So, that leads us up to the 30/30 work cycle. This actually doesn't sounds
that bad. But, it is _totally_ not something that would work in a professional
setting. When you are in the middle of an important meeting with the board, or
working on getting a product feature out that day, you can't walk out of the
meeting or walk out on your team to go play video games. I take time out
periodically for a walk, but seriously- grow up.

~~~
jerf
"Unless you get everyone to switch to it, you will be disabled whenever you
switch to someone else's computer, a kiosk, etc. Why bother?"

I take it you have not tried any alternate layouts. Why do you as someone who
has not tried it feel inclined to lecture about the consequences to those who
have? Which of us do you think has the clearer picture about the consequences?

Theorize about the potential downsides all you like. In practice, I find it
has been a net gain for me personally, and no amount of mere conjecture on
your part will change that one bit.

~~~
silentbicycle
I've typed Dvorak for a couple years, and have been quite happy with it. I'm
curious about Colemak, though. Dvorak is pretty established as _the_
alternative English-language keyboard layout - It's not hard to set up on
Windows, Unix, or (I'm guessing) OS X. Is Colemak? While I'm convinced that
Dvorak is _significantly_ better than Qwerty, if you're the stubborn sort that
would use a different keyboard layout for English (spoiler alert: I am), I
suspect there's diminishing returns after that. Still, I'm really curious
about Colemak (what was the rationale?) - I just don't know anybody who uses
it.

My strategy of "heavily customized Emacs / Dvorak on my computers, standard
Qwerty / vi otherwise" has been a good compromise over the years,
incidentally.

Also, I work with Swedish hackers who remind me that Qwerty is only "standard"
so far across the ocean. These things only make sense in a local context.

~~~
w1ntermute
Funny that they're Swedish - Swedish is one of the few non-English languages
for which there is a version of Dvorak - it's called Svorak.

~~~
silentbicycle
Yeah, I think there's a Danish Dvorak as well. Pretty useless for Japanese,
Russian, or Arabic though. :)

