
BitPatron – A Bitcoin Censorship-Free Patreon Alternative - crazyamir
https://bitpatron.co/
======
kbody
Kinda saturated of the so called "censorship-free"-Patreon solutions if you
follow the space, but the whole point is to not have to trust that someone
won't block you.

So a solution is not yet another platform but everyone (that cares enough) to
run their own decentralized way of accepting payments/support.

Just install BtcPayServer (
[https://btcpayserver.org/](https://btcpayserver.org/) ) and you can start
accepting payments in Bitcoin and other coins even via LN, without having to
trust any intermediary plus no extra middlemen fees.

~~~
ninguem2
Why is there need for software to accept bitcoin donations? Can't one just put
the bitcoin address on the website?

~~~
agorabinary
The goal of BTCPay server is to use the Lightning Network for Bitcoin
payments, which only generates single-use payment requests. Also important to
point out that LN will not be functional for years, so...

~~~
Erlich_Bachman
You seem to be misinformed about this because LN is absolutely functional
today already. What are you talking about?

Is it not functional in BTCPay server perhaps? Nevertheless, the network
itself functions already and functions well. (Adoption will take time to
spread, yes.)

~~~
agorabinary
"Absolutely functional" is when a user can send+receive a payment as
effortlessly as Venmo. You cannot do this with LN at any time in the near
future - routing payments, automatic channel management, sending a push
payment, etc. I don't mean to bash LN but its simply disingenuous when people
suggest these features are anything but pre-alpha

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ng12
Can someone explain exactly what is pressuring payment processors to pass
moral judgement on the payments they're processing? I'm sure MasterCard would
rather not waste resources moderating Patreon users, so what's pressuring them
to do so?

~~~
Hydraulix989
Many of the voluntary donors on Patreon are averse to supporting their
favorite creators on a platform that does not take a "moral" stand when needed
(at the donors' discretion). This has been the actual user behavior (even
organized protests against Patreon!) for not banning certain political
figures.

~~~
sparkie
This seems counter to Patreon's claims that Mastercard has forced them to make
decisions. If there were complainants on Patreon, would they not just complain
to Patreon first?

~~~
Hydraulix989
You're referring to one specific case (of which there are many). Also, even in
this specific case, I encourage you to evaluate the facts, press, and public
statements yourself, ask yourself the right questions, and do your own
critical thinking.

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motohagiography
The problem BitPatron and others are solving for is of opaque political
interests exerting influence on an oligopoly of payments providers. Right or
left, payment freedom and diversity is a problem worth solving.

If people are seriously accepting moral leadership from credit card companies,
what is there really to add.

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therealmarv
This are the platforms we need more. Not this, hey I invited this new coin
named XYZ around my/this service which will revolutionize the industry, ICO &
trading soon blablabla "whitepapaer" & "scam" & "fill-my-pocket scheme" here.

Just build something around Bitcoin or Ethereum for the payment/payout centric
problems in this world and use a very good exchangable well established,
EXISTING cryptocurrency. No need to reinvent the wheel again&again.

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jchw
Persistent, powerful people who want to push their moral imperatives on others
have avenues other than payment processors. I think we need more
decentralization than this.

~~~
diminoten
Their moral imperatives or society's agreed upon moral imperatives?

~~~
x220
If "society" had agreed upon it, there would be no reason for Mastercard to do
anything because society wouldn't fund these people.

~~~
daveFNbuck
IF 99.99% of society is against something, there are still hundreds of
thousands of people left to fund it.

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chasing
I see "censorship-free" and think "BitPatron is to Patreon what Gab.ai is to
Twitter, the 'censorship-free' alternative."

~~~
api
This comment reminds me of something I read a while back about Tor, I2P, and
Freenet-- that the fact that those services are loaded with child porn and
other nasty stuff is in a way a positive commentary on our society. It shows
that the mainstream is healthy enough that the vast majority of speech and
activity does not feel a need to go underground. You could say the same thing
about "censorship-free" alternatives being full of fascists and racists and
people announcing that they're "going in" before shooting up a synagogue.

That being said I do subscribe to the Larry Flynt doctrine of free speech--
free speech is measured by the freedom of the least sympathetic speakers. The
fact that platforms like gab.ai can be created without _legal_ ramifications
means that we still basically have free speech.

~~~
sparkie
Most Chinese citizens do not feel the need to go "underground".

North Korean citizens generally don't go "underground" either.

Do you think they're well informed about the world?

It's a different story in the west now, where information is generally
available without the need to go "underground", so to speak - so why would be
not be intent on keeping it that way? It seems that some people would like to
drive things underground because it hurts their feelings. Is China the role
model we're aspiring to become?

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bitpatron
Who are these guys? We submitted this exact idea with the exact name to YC
Summer 2018 and had an interview. Proof:
[https://i.imgur.com/a8B5KJ7.png](https://i.imgur.com/a8B5KJ7.png)

~~~
AElsinore77
I'm the above poster's cofounder that pitched this in person with YC on April
30, 2018 - exact same name and idea. I'm definitely curious if this is just
innocent coincidence.

~~~
bitpatron-co
Definitely coincidence, we are not even based in U.S. and we never had any
connection with Y.C.

We wanted a simple name and this was one of the first options we thought,
together with BitSubscribe .

Hope you understand.

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ilaksh
To me this type of thing is the biggest indicator that Ethereum is the right
path going forward.

Because their programming language builds in support for systems like this
with smart contracts. And also Ethereum is tackling scaling and
microtransactions head on with major upgrades to their core.

~~~
Erlich_Bachman
What technical function exactly do you assume such a platform needs from
Ethereum, that is not already provided in Bitcoin?

~~~
ilaksh
That's such an Erlich question.

You should just go back to Tibet.

Bitcoin does not have smart contracts or a programming language and the
scaling in the new Ethereum is going to be better.

~~~
Erlich_Bachman
Why do you need smart contracts (besides the additional transaction types that
Bitcoin provides) to implement a Patreon? Why can't the website just
redistribute funds, if it is going to be centralized already? (It has to be
hosted somewhere, handle user support etc.) What specific functions would you
need from a smart contract there? I honestly don't see any.

~~~
ilaksh
The distribution is handled by the smart contract.

~~~
Erlich_Bachman
So the funds go to one contract address, and the contract distributes them to
another address (of the content creator)? What is the point, that is just
money transfer, it could be done with bitcoin donation address (and in fact is
done that way currently by many creators successfully).

------
r32a_
Lot's of activity in these censorship-free alternatives to popular
applications.

Interesting to see if this is just a fad or are these going to make any impact
incumbents.

~~~
eli
I doubt twitter is too worried about Gab

~~~
belltaco
Same with Reddit and Voat.

~~~
cabalamat
I think you and eli are both right. Neither Gab not Voat are likely to
succeed, because of network effects.

The only way a new social network is likely to succeed is if it is part of a
federation of social networks that communicate using protocols such as
ActivityPub, making one big network where the whole exceeds the sum of thew
parts.

~~~
eli
Sure, but mostly because they’re full of exactly the sort of people I don’t
want to interact with

~~~
cabalamat
That may well be true. But maybe some Gab people want to interact with some
Voat people, and if the applications were interoperable they would be able to.

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microcolonel
Coinbase is already blocking users for content reasons, so it may be hard to
get your bitcoin through the exchange if others follow suit.

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tmaic
"There already is a crypto patreon - bitbacker.io , and this one has some
scandal surrounding it:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/aey3x8/were_creating_a...](https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/aey3x8/were_creating_a_patreon_alternative_powered_by/?utm_source=reddit-
android)

~~~
bitpatron-co
This is someone under .io domain, nothing to do with us.

BitBacker is nice, but tbh, it still lacks the necessary features and even
more important a proper ux to be a real alternative for most of Patreon users.

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throwawaymath
Is censorship a problem with Patreon?

~~~
judgardner
Apparently yes. Visa/MasterCard pressure Patreon to drop users with views they
don’t approve of. Most recently alt-right users. I think it’s important to
protect free speech, especially the kind I don’t agree with.

~~~
stcredzero
_Most recently alt-right users._

Most prominently, recently, a center-left commentator whose opinions certain
executives don't like.

~~~
kevinh
The one I'm aware of is Sargon of Akkad, who I'd certainly consider to be alt-
right. Who are you referring to?

~~~
asabjorn
He was fighting against alt righters that had targeted him for months in the
clip he got banned for where he called them out on their bigoted opinions and
poor behavior, and is a known target of theirs. To say he is alt right is
unreasonable and incorrect, although for some he is certainly divisive.

~~~
stcredzero
One of the odd things about the clip he got banned for, was that the most
likely way it could have come to the attention of Patreon, was for the Alt-
Right to have submitted it. Basically, it looks like Patreon was doing the
bidding of the Alt-Right by doing what's politically convenient for the far
left.

 _To say he is alt right is unreasonable and incorrect, although for some he
is certainly divisive._

That's basically the same kind of tactics religious fundamentalists tried to
pull in shaming homosexuals way back when. That sort of social manipulation
through dishonest labeling, that spirit of squashing dissent -- it's the same
kind of tribalist petty evil practiced by bigots back in the day. People who
know better need to stand up and call it out.

~~~
asabjorn
You seem correct in the observations that the far right and left believe in
the same worldview with opposite arrows, seeking to oppress any dissent to
this worldview through fake outrage. Both share the worldview that the
superior whites need to either help or rule, depending on which fringe we are
talking with. Both unfounded beliefs as there are bigger variance within than
between identity politics groups.

~~~
sparkie
This is Horseshoe Theory
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory)).
Commentators from both sides will vehemently defend their position and claim
it to be nothing like the other side. From the reasonable person's perspective
(more towards centre), both extremes are authoritarian, and their similarities
are more striking than their differences.

~~~
asabjorn
It is not a horseshoe, as it is not a continuum. Far-right is pre-modern and
far-left is post-modern, and both have a distinctly different view in
opposition to the modern enlightenment project. However, the current dominant
ideologies on the fringes seem to share some important core tenets and a
tendency towards tyranny.

Btw, the article you link seem to argue that there is a historic parallel to
this argument. However, post-modernist is a much newer concept and ideology
than the historic events listed in it.

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laurynas-s
Great to see alternative built with cryptocurrencies.

Since biycoun doesn't have subscriptions, you'd need to topup your account X
amount which then gets distributed over the months to bitpatreons?

~~~
Erlich_Bachman
Would that really be such a big nuisance? It could even be set up
automatically in some wallets.

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seibelj
Yet another interesting service made possible by blockchain and
cryptocurrency. But HN commenters will continue to say crypto is nothing but a
useless scam.

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tootahe45
It's the payment providers who are the problem, and you can't really skip a
single one. Want to exclude a PayPal option? your content creators will get
say %20 less, want to exclusively use crypto with current adoption rates? i'd
assume you'd see only a fraction of the money you'd get on regular patreon.
There's a reason Patreon has ex-paypal insiders working for them.

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Simon_says
In any sane world, the ability to accept payments would be a service every
bank would offer.

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nootropicat
Where's the added value? Patreon handles fiat payments. Anyone can accept
crypto directly, zero need for any intermediary.

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lern_too_spel
This just replaces one problem with another. How do you convert your Bitcoins
into useful money? Is there a censorship free exchange, or do you have to
trade with individuals directly?

~~~
swfsql
It's, at least, much easier to "move money around". You could find some
difficulty to trade for "local money", but to "really stop you", the censors
would need to put an immense effort. Without this alternative, it's basically
"effortless" for them to cancel your banking access. So they'll lose this
"effortless advantage".

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belltaco
What happened to Hatereon?

~~~
syshum
I believe Paypal and other Processors discontinued their ability to process
CreditCards

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luckydata
Oh man, this will go great. Let me grab the .

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unknownkadath
I'm sorry, I just can't get worked up over The Hitler Store not being able to
use Paypal.

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theuttick
I don't understand how this works.

If I am giving you money and your are giving bitcoin to the people I am
supporting, then mastercard will not allow you to take money if you facilitate
right wing views.

If I am giving you bitcoin and you are giving money to the people I support,
then Mastercard will cut you off if those people have right wing views.

If I am giving you bitcoin and you are giving bitcoin to the people I support,
then how is it different from just giving bitcoin?

It doesn't really solve the free speech problem as what is needed is a way for
all views to be paid with the ease of a credit card, instead of just approved
views.

~~~
aeternus
Mainly microtransactions. The bitcoin fee can be high and might not make sense
if you want to give someone say 10 cents for every article you read.

~~~
sadris
This is what BAT is for

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0x445442
Show HN... $CashPay$

$CashPay$ is a pivot on the Offering Plate employed by the church and by
beggars for millennium; cash.

FAQ

Q: As a content creator, how do I accept payment for my work? A: Content
creators disclose a PO Box address.

Q: As a patron of content creators, how can I support them? A: Patrons can
send cash, pre-paid debit cards, money orders, etc. in an envelope to the
disclosed PO Box address.

