
Spark, New Markets, App Messaging, and Bitcoin Changes - bdcravens
https://blog.circle.com/2016/12/06/spark-new-markets-app-messaging-and-bitcoin-changes/
======
tortasaur
The headline might as well read "Circle announces imminent closure"; unless
they have some real winner of a business model they haven't disclosed yet,
that's the end result here.

~~~
otoburb
Looks like they've shut down their trading platform and are shifting their
entire focus to the money transfer side of the business, which allows them to
purely compete against other virtual currency money transmitters like Ripple
who can operate in all US states (including New York which has been
problematic for many virtual currency businesses[1]).

My unfounded and completely wild speculation here is that dropping their
trading services will reduce their expensive compliance costs, in-house
development (or platform licensing) costs, and headcount.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitLicense](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitLicense)

~~~
mathattack
Cutting their trading will also reduce their risk too, right? Trading desks
need to hold reserves against their risk. (Whether for legal reasons, or just
to reassure counterparties) If your capital is provided by people making bank
deposits, that's cheap. If your capital is provide by VCs, that's expensive.

~~~
otoburb
Expensive VC capital[1] being the biggest factor for this move makes much more
sense. Upon reflection, the other cost savings I listed are simply ancillary,
or side-benefits, after addressing the underlying driver that you identified.

[1] [http://www.coindesk.com/circle-raises-50-million-with-
goldma...](http://www.coindesk.com/circle-raises-50-million-with-goldman-
sachs-support/)

------
intoverflow2
Wow, big shame this was definitely the easiest way I found to buy BTC. Also
the fact it was on iOS I felt much better about giving them my details than
just some random website.

Can't really see the point in them now when so many other services offer
similar stuff for non-crypto.

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ghc
Sad, and no notice given to us. We pay one of our employees via BTC. Circle
was the only place that let us buy enough BTC from our corporate account.

~~~
module0000
I would really love to know why the employee is paid in BTC. Are they out of
the country, a felon, or something else entirely?

~~~
waterphone
Some people just prefer to be paid in BTC because they like and support the
platform and its concept and want to be all in with it.

------
cinquemb
I wonder if this has anything to do with the IRS going after Coinbase[0] and
them seeing the writing on the wall trying to avoid that issue or minimize any
potential "wrong doing"?

[0]
[http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2016/11/30/cour...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2016/11/30/court-
grants-irs-authority-to-demand-identities-of-bitcoin-users-transactions-at-
coinbase/)

------
intoverflow2
What on earth is the point of rolling your own messenger when you've supported
iMessage integration from day 1? (and presumably could integrate with other
major platforms).

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Animats
How does Circle make money? They claim they don't charge for deposits,
withdrawals, or sending money. Hidden fees? Future price increases? Stealing
customer funds?

~~~
jstanley
Most likely on the spread.

It's like currency exchange booths that have "0% fees" but the buy price is
different from the sell price.

~~~
HappyTypist
Circle doesn't have a spread. There is only one price for both buy and sell.

I'm guessing they were just burning VC money.

~~~
homero
Their spread was buy only

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lowpro
I don't see why they're doing this now, what caused this?

Also, I hope this doesn't put downward pressure on BTC. There is already
mounting pressure as the world invests in dollars considering widespread
conservative political movement across the globe, and no one quite knows
what's going to happen. As the dollar goes up, I'd think that would have
another negative effect on BTC.

I see BTC crashing very soon, but in the meantime, I'm waiting cautiously.

~~~
bdcravens
Circle has been putting distance between themselves and Bitcoin for a while
now, branding their service as a type of social money, even while still using
Bitcoin behind the scenes.

~~~
wyager
> putting distance between themselves and Bitcoin for a while now, branding
> their service as a type of social money

Anyone remember dwolla? Probably not. They tried to do the same thing, but it
turned out the only reason anyone cared about them was bitcoin-friendliness.

I'm not sure why anyone in their right mind would want to compete in the
"social money" market right now given that it's saturated with low- or zero-
margin projects, often sponsored by large companies. Square cash, venmo,
Facebook cash, snapcash. The only one of the bunch I use is square cash
because it's the least "social".

~~~
aianus
> Square cash, venmo, Facebook cash, snapcash.

We don't have anything like any of those in Canada, if someone wants to try :)

~~~
querulous
we have interac e-transfer which is offered by virtually every bank and credit
union in canada and requires only an email address or phone number to use

~~~
aianus
Nobody uses it though.

It costs $1.50 per transaction so it's not practical for paying your friend $5
to split a burrito etc.

~~~
querulous
your bank sets the rate. mine charges nothing for transfers under $100 and $1
for anything over that

------
oxide
well, damn. I went through all the hoops signing up with Circle already, I
heard Coinbase was worse. Does this make Coinbase the only game in town for
buying bitcoin with a debit card?

~~~
wyager
Using cash via localbitcoins is easy in any reasonably populated area. You pay
maybe 3-5% premiums over market price to buy from a professional high-
availability seller. You can buy at or below market price if you're not in a
rush.

~~~
oxide
I was going to do this but there is only one local seller and he had a huge
markup.

~~~
jstanley
You can trade using online banking on localbitcoins, you don't actually need
to be local. In fact I've done over 70 trades on localbitcoins, and never met
in person for any one of them.

~~~
pjc50
How on earth do you verify security for that?

~~~
jstanley
What do you mean? The BTC goes into escrow with Localbitcoins, then the buyer
sends the money to the seller's bank account, and then the seller releases the
BTC from escrow.

------
bdcravens
This blog article changed substantially from last night - odd.

------
astrostl
What is that quote about how every application will eventually implement user-
to-user messaging? Can't find it out there :P

~~~
ominous
Well, [http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/Z/Zawinskis-
Law.html](http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/Z/Zawinskis-Law.html) and a more
recent formulation:
[http://www.lukew.com/ff/entry.asp?1696](http://www.lukew.com/ff/entry.asp?1696)

~~~
astrostl
That's it, thanks :)

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sdouglas
It seems that they've pivoted to a Venmo-like model. Here in the UK, we don't
have single app that has the wide network like Venmo does in the US (there are
plenty of apps, just with small networks.) Myself and my friends have found
Circle to be a good option. I'd encourage other folks to give it a try.

~~~
joosters
What are the advantages of using Circle or other apps over just transferring
money? UK bank transfers are free and instant, I can't see what an app could
add to that?

~~~
falcolas
In the US at least, the info needed to transfer money _to_ an account is the
exact same info needed to silently transfer money _from_ an account.

All of it.

At once.

~~~
manarth

      > the info needed to transfer money to an account is the exact
      > same info needed to silently transfer money from an account
    

If I wanted to transfer money _to_ an account, would I need the
username/password/credentials for that account?

If I wanted to transfer money _from_ an account, would I need the
username/password/credentials for that account?

~~~
falcolas
No, just the account number and routing code. It's how you associate an
account with PayPal as well.

Fun bonus, both of those numbers are printed clearly on every check you write,
too.

------
nikolay
Obviously, consumers care less about Bitcoin today than ever. I don't
understand why the price does not reflect this. Oh, well, Chinese Commies need
ways to sneak money out of the country and this pretty much is the only use
case for Bitcoin. But! Blockchain (without Bitcoin) will live.

------
thesimon
A bit surprised as they quite recently emailed me to let me know EU customers
can now buy bitcoins.

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markkat
Wow. No notice at all? That's terrible. I just transferred out my BTC.
Deleting the app.

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computerwizard
This makes me sad. RIP Circle.

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twalling
This link is much better at talking about their plans.

[https://blog.circle.com/2016/12/06/spark-new-markets-app-
mes...](https://blog.circle.com/2016/12/06/spark-new-markets-app-messaging-
and-bitcoin-changes)

~~~
sctb
Thanks, we've updated the link from [https://support.circle.com/hc/en-
us/articles/217972003](https://support.circle.com/hc/en-
us/articles/217972003).

~~~
bdcravens
Seems a bit odd to change to a substantially different blog article; bigger
strategy is important, but the original article focused more on the decision
to stop exchanging Bitcoin, which is bigger IMHO than their other initiatives.

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homero
They might as well close

