
Saudi Arabia detains 201 princes, businessmen in $100B corruption probe - muzani
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-10/saudi-anti-corruption-probe-finds-$100-billion-embezzled/9136608
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throw2016
This is the most backward and regressive country in the world.

The fact that Europe, US, western media and other busy bodies can
sanctimoniously preach human rights and execute wars and destroy entire
countries for decades non stop while supporting a regime like SA is a true
reflection of how global news and propaganda works. And exposes the silliness
of a 'value' based world that exists simply to provide cover for geo-political
objectives to cause devastation and death on the ground. These are crimes
against humanity.

And mindbogglingly this support has continued even while the Saudis finance
the spread of a hateful wahhabist ideology and we spend billions to build
surveillance states at home to protect against it.

Yet it is Libya, Iraq and now Syria and Iran - all generations ahead on human
rights compared to the Saudis - that are targeted while the Saudi's continue
uninterrupted with western support. This 'purge' is happening with US and
european support so you don't see the usual hysteria about 'rule of law' and
'human rights'. This is a truly messed up world.

~~~
mangodrunk
Well said! We (those in the US) should really think about who we are, as I
think it's harder to be self reflective about our own doings, but we can see
how bad Saudi Arabia is. Saudi Arabia is considered an ally. Saudi Arabia is a
leading state sponsor of terrorism and has been exporting an extreme ideology
which is the terrorism that is wreaking havoc. How can we consider ourselves
the "good guys", if Saudi Arabia (a country that is so obviously doing
horrible things) is considered an ally and a country which we (the US) have
been arming them with weapons?

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thisisit
> The purge began overnight Saturday, initially catching 11 princes and 38
> officials, military officers and business leaders. They are being held at
> five-star hotels, including the Ritz-Carlton in Riyadh.

Really getting the royal treatment even during probe. Btw, is this in any way
related to the pending Aramco IPO?

~~~
dx034
Detained in a 5* hotel probably feels like prison would be for most of us. In
the end, prison is about not having any freedom and that will be the case for
them as well. A nice bed doesn't help much if you have no say about your life.

> Btw, is this in any way related to the pending Aramco IPO?

More likely the handover to the new crown prince (MBS). The IPO could be
cancelled anyway but both are driven by MBS to modernise Saudi Arabia and make
it ready for a future without oil.

~~~
zipwitch
This is an aspect of the proposed narrative I don't understand.

How on Earth is turning the country into an absolute dictatorship, with the
rule of law utterly disregarded, supposed to help Saudi Arabia move forward?
The last things I would want to do financially would be to put money into a
state where the local dictator has a proven willingness to seize assets on a
whim.

~~~
adventured
In theory it would be that they believe they can kill two birds with one
stone.

1) Take out competing power lines in the family. As a kicker they get to seize
upwards of $300 billion that can go into the remake-Saudi-Arabia-fund for
Mohammad Bin Salman (likely several times what they'd get initially from the
Aramco IPO).

2) Neutralize concerns over that by covering it in a guise of cleaning up the
kingdom. Most likely the kingdom has always operated by these means and
they're simply throwing a switch and choosing to selectively prosecute.

Their plan bets on the second part being an acceptable cover story. They're
betting some percentage of people will buy the premise outright. They're
betting some percentage of people will find the cover story good enough to
provide their own personal cover to continue working with the Saudis ('just
give me some kind of rationale I can take to my people'). It would all rest on
the notion that given enough time and stability afterward, that the vast
majority of people that do business with Saudi Arabia now, will let this
slide.

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clavalle
When it is all said and done the Saudi Crown is going to have significant
stakes in many critical American and Western companies including huge media
companies.

This makes me very uncomfortable.

~~~
Zelmor
Are they any worse than your US overlords?

~~~
anbende
Well, their views on gender equality and religious freedom on average tend to
be very different from the vast majority of those in the West. So yes, they
might well be worse.

~~~
muzani
Mohammed bin Salman is allegedly a lot more moderate than the past leaders.

~~~
clavalle
The policy on gender and religious freedom is only the tip of the iceberg.

Freedom as a concept seems to be under direct attack in their Kingdom
considering the Crown Prince is rounding up political enemies en masse with
complete impunity.

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dogruck
I do not think it’s accurate to call this a “corruption probe.” Surely that’s
how Saudi Arabia’s leaders and their allies would like it described. To me,
it’s a biased headline.

Keep in mind that the opposing side is being murdered, or detained, without
due process.

~~~
buttcoinslol
The KSA is an absolute monarchy that beheads people and severs limbs for
thievery. Murdering or detaining the other side without due process is how
these states work, it's how you consolidate power when there are hundreds of
pretenders to the throne.

~~~
baursak
Sure, but where is the outcry from Western media and round the clock coverage
of this outrage? If anything remotely close to this was happening in any of
"official" adversaries like Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, etc., media would be
calling for US troops on the ground. It this was in Russia or China, there
would be multiple levels of sanctions imposed as we speak.

But, hey, this is Saudi Arabia, so let's just treat it with bemused detachment
like an extended Game of Thrones season.

~~~
wils1245
Kind of hard to get outraged about. These people _are_ corrupt. So is the
crown prince. The Game of Thrones reference is apt, none of these people are
morally superior to the others.

On the list of Saudi outrages, this ranks pretty far down the list.

~~~
baursak
Yeah, sure, compared to routinely beheading people for witchcraft, this might
even seem civilized.

My point was that when it's murderous tyrannical allies like Saudis, the
mainstream response is just like yours, "eh, what am I supposed to do about
it, that's how it goes".

When it's adversaries like Saddam Hussein, it's "wtf, let's bomb the shit out
of them".

~~~
dogruck
(Don’t forget that Saddam was supported by the US before he wasn’t supported
by the US)

------
_delirium
The Prime Minister of Lebanon also turned up in Riyadh and resigned via
television on the same day in unclear circumstances (conflicting reports
whether he is free to leave or not), which is a particularly weird tie-in:
[http://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/10/middleeast/lebanon-
hariri-...](http://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/10/middleeast/lebanon-hariri-saudi-
iran/index.html)

------
LeoJiWoo
I'm surprised Alwaleed bin Talal arrest hasn't affected tech stocks yet.

The big question to me is what the kingdom will do with all the assets they
confiscated.

EDIT: I think they'll start liquidating large assets for their
[http://vision2030.gov.sa/en](http://vision2030.gov.sa/en) plan.

~~~
adventured
Let's put it into perspective. Paul Allen is holding $9.5 billion in
Microsoft. Paul is worth around $6 billion more than Alwaleed.

That position couldn't shake Microsoft very much at all, much less the wider
tech world. Alwaleed's position in Apple and Twitter are, basically,
meaningless to affecting tech stocks. Apple is a $900 billion company, nearing
the worth of Aramco at this point. Alwaleed's entire worth is $17 billion,
barely a drop in the ocean versus tech stocks. Not to mention nobody seriously
believes those positions are going to be haphazardly liquidated. If Saudi
Arabia manages to seize Kingdom Holdings, they'll most likely make gradual
maneuvers.

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arca_vorago
Some of my conspiracy forums are saying supposedly this is part of a
corruption sweep agreement that will include America (rumors of sealed
indictments), designed to get "deep state" people to start singing.

Not saying its true, but just thought it might add context.

Never forget who created the house of saud in the first place.

~~~
LyndsySimon
I'm seeing the same thing, in relatively mainstream conservative fora.

The most convincing part of this seems to be that Alwaleed bin Talil has
longstanding ties with the US political system, particularly on the left. His
past work with the Podestas has many eyebrows raised.

There are also dozens of sealed federal indictments pending, which I'm told is
quite unusual. The assumption seems to be that they are related to Mueller's
investigation although I've seen no compelling evidence that this is the case,
aside from timing and wishful thinking.

~~~
dragonwriter
> There are also dozens of sealed federal indictments pending, which I'm told
> is quite unusual. The assumption seems to be that they are related to
> Mueller's investigation although I've seen no compelling evidence that this
> is the case, aside from timing and wishful thinking.

Neither the total number, nor timing, is particularly unusual; then
speculation about Mueller is mostly based on the number in D.C. between the
Manafort and Papadopoulos indictments being somewhat higher than would be
expected by random chance, but even that is fairly weak. There is basically
zero evidence of _anything_ unusual with sealed indictments.

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tome
Is Saudia Arabia changing its PR strategy? So much good news coming from this
kingdom at the moment ...

~~~
jdietrich
Saudi Arabia is changing, full stop. Mohammad bin Salman is pushing through a
sweeping reform agenda, with the explicitly stated aim of returning Saudi
Arabia to a moderate Islamic state. We've already seen substantial change. The
powers of the religious police have been greatly curtailed, women are allowed
to drive, the state-owned petroleum company is being partly privatised and
there are major plans for economic modernisation.

Whether this reform agenda actually comes to pass is yet to be seen, but I
think we should applaud both the rhetoric and the efforts made so far.

~~~
clavalle
The reform agenda only reaches as far as the door to the throne room. Assuming
perfect execution of western reforms we'll still be left with an enormously
wealthy, powerful, and ruthless autocratic regime actively trying to spread
their power far beyond their borders.

Unless they become a constitutional monarchy with severely limited powers I am
going to hold my applause.

~~~
pavs
Gradual change is better than no change at all.

For a country like Saudi, if you want to make a large scale sudden changes
which turns everything upside-down (even if those were good intentions), you
will end up with something like Afganistan or Iraq.

The pace of change (however slow for our standard), is quite unthinkable for
the locals. I think it will take a couple of decades, at least, to see if
anything good came out of this.

