
Juice may taste good, but unlike the fruit, it’s not healthy - miraj
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/04/26/people-think-juice-is-good-for-them-theyre-wrong/
======
js2
This article primarily uses "juice" as a synonym for "commercial fruit juice."
In addition, it's suggesting that it's not healthy/necessary to drink such
commercial fruit juice daily.

If you're consuming smoothies which use the entire fruit/veggie that you'd
normally eat, and you're not adding sweeteners, and you don't have any health
issues that might be related to excess calories in your diet, then no need to
attack the article, it's not addressing you.

But even then, note that the article still makes the point that people tend to
over-consume when drinking their calories as opposed to chewing them.

As an example of one of my smoothies that I make at home that I don't think
this article would take issue with: 100g frozen blueberries, 1 medium (126g)
banana, 14g raw almonds, 100g spinach, 14g whey protein powder, 6g unsweetened
cocoa powder, 10g fish oil, water. This is about 440 calories (18g fat, 56g
carbs, 22g protein) according to My Fitness Pal.

~~~
rsync
"14g raw almonds"

You probably already know this, but others reading may not:

Almonds have a glycemic index of zero.

They are a great addition to a fruit _smoothie_ since, in addition to the
fiber of the whole fruit, you knock down the (already low) glycemic index of
the entire (liquid) meal.

I wonder if you've considered almond butter ? Most almond butters on store
shelves contain sugar, which would disqualify them, but many grocery stores
(including whole foods) allow you to grind your own in-store ... I find it
much more convenient to add almond butter to smoothies rather than almonds
themselves ...

~~~
GordonS
> Almonds have a glycemic index of zero

Do you have a reputable source for this? Almonds contain carbohydrate, so
surely they have some effect of blood glucose?

~~~
hawkice
So, this is a great question to which I had no answer (not about almonds
specifically, but I've heard similar claims for e.g. hummus). I still don't
have any answer, but I believe the answer lies in the realm of "glycemic index
is a complex measure that doesn't exactly match any simple model for what it
would be". For instance, fructose has a pretty low glycemic index (about the
same as kidney beans, actually), and it's literally sugar.

~~~
narrowrail
From wikipedia, "glycaemic index (GI) is a number associated with a particular
type of food that indicates the food's effect on a person's blood glucose."

Because glucose is a sugar, you seem to be confusing it with fructose (another
sugar, 5-carbon vs 6-carbon). The glycaemic index specifically looks at one
specific sugar -> glucose. Sugars aren't intrinsically bad, but often times
they are removed from their origins which contain other constituents that help
our bodies digest them (all sugar, no pulp).

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mikenyc
We've successfully convinced our two-year-old that unsweetened, carbonated
water is "juice". She frequently goes to restaurants and is very excited to
get "juice" from the bar, and considers it a special treat. Eventually this
will surely fail when her friends can explain reality. But until then it's
working great to avoid massive loads of sugar in her early years.

~~~
tobtoh
I'm not quite parsing the logic of doing this.

If she is getting fooled that carbonated water is 'juice', then I'm assuming
she doesn't know what juice actually is and therefore has no association of
juice = sugar drink. So why the need to trick your daughter?

Couldn't you have just called it 'fizzy water', or if water is associated with
'boring', call it 'fizzy drink'. She'd still get it from the bar and have the
excitement of that.

~~~
savanaly
Probably the kid just learned through cultural osmosis that juice is a good
treat for kids and so naturally the kid wants it.

~~~
tobtoh
Fair enough. That makes sense. Thanks.

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voidmain0001
I don't have proof for the following, but I think the article should qualify
the type of juice being consumed. I regularly make juice from raw vegetables
(ginger, cucumber, carrots, beets, celery, parsley, cilantro, yams, kale,
chard, brussel sprouts etc) and I suspect that the sugar content is less than
fruit juice. Personally I don't understand why a person would juice a fruit
when you can eat it whole? Fruits are so stupidly delicious when eaten whole.
In the end, everything in moderation...

~~~
brianwawok
> Personally I don't understand why a person would juice a fruit when you can
> eat it whole?

I feel the same way about veggies. Raw veggies are awesome.

~~~
_acme
And I generally think most vegetables taste terrible. What's the point of
going on about personal preferences here?

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troycarlson
I see a lot of people consuming things like juice, whole grain breads,
breakfast cereals, sugar-filled nut butters and yogurts, etc. claiming they
made "healthy" choices. Of course everything is fine in moderation but a
heaping pile of sugar and simple carbs with no lean proteins, good fats or
greens is far from healthy. The solution would seem to be better nutrition
education so that more people recognize the fat free yogurt they just felt
good about eating had 25g of added sugar per serving.

~~~
kyriakos
Just a note, whole grain bread is not the healthy choice just the healthier
compared to the alternative of plain white bread.

~~~
Network2020
Depends on who pays for the research.

If it's research that claims fruit and veggies aren't healthy, I usually check
to make sure the research wasn't paid for by either the big pharma or dairy
lobbies.

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Stranger43
Are fruit actually healthy?

It's one of those assumptions we make that everyone knows is true but do we
have any real evidence that fruit consumed in quantities that where it have an
real impact on our caloric intake provide "health benefits".

~~~
kinkrtyavimoodh
Vitamins, minerals, anti-oxidants, fiber (in some cases).

But yes, barring fiber, these are all micronutrients, not macronutrients.

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d--b
Anyone who has ever pressed an orange knows that you need at least 4 or 5 of
them to make a whole glass. The amount of sugar is astonishing. I personnally
water down my grapefruit five folds...

~~~
misev
That sounds very inefficient, I've had yields of 2:1 with slight variations
for different orange types.

~~~
skybrian
Maybe you use a smaller glass?

~~~
danmaz74
Or even bigger oranges? Size vary wildly by variety.

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vitro
Why not make a smoothie which leaves all the body of the fruit inside the
drink. Add a bit of water and nuts perhaps and there you go.

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sriram_malhar
My 95 year old (!) yoga teacher used to say, "eat liquid, drink solid" in his
native tongue. It meant that when you ingest something a liquid like soup or
juice, let it not rush down the throat; it should spend a nice chunk of time
in the mouth, like a solid. In other words, "eat it". Likewise, when you have
something solid, chew it until it "liquefies".

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m3kw9
People critique this piece as inaccurate but should instead should realize the
way to attract attention is to get you first to read it. It then gets people
talking. If you really get his point, he meant drinking juice that filters out
the pulp isn't as good as filtered, and maybe harmful given that example he
noted.

~~~
devoply
Most juice is not even "juice". Some of it is concentrated juice which is then
reconstituted sometimes with added sugar or fructose. Some of it is only
partially juice, the rest being just water, sugar, and flavor. Some of it is
freeze dried and then reflavored because freeze drying destroys its flavor,
i.e. not from concentrate juice. Some of it is pasteurized which destroys the
vitamin content. It is not just missing the pulp, it's also missing all the
fiber that fruit has which is good for your digestive system and also keeps
the glycemic load from spiking as it digests slowly. There is really nothing
good about the concept of juice or juicing. Just eat fruits and vegetables
like normal primates do.

~~~
jpalomaki
Old article from Gizmodo talks about this:

"Dirty Little Secret: Orange Juice Is Artificially Flavored to Taste Like
Oranges"

[http://gizmodo.com/5825909/orange-juice-is-artificially-
flav...](http://gizmodo.com/5825909/orange-juice-is-artificially-flavored-to-
taste-like-oranges)

------
lkrubner
A large distinction needs to be made between juice you drink within an hour of
the fruit being crushed, versus drinking stuff a few months later, stuff
that's been preserved via various bizarre tricks to keep it safe from oxygen.

Without intervention, the oxygen in the air will break down most of the
healthy stuff within an hour or two. If you juice carrots and drink it
immediately, there are benefits.

What you see in the USA, with the stuff called "orange juice" often makes
health claims that should be disallowed. "All natural" and "contains Vitamin
C" are highly misleading, considering the actual process that the juice is put
through, so it can survive for months on the shelf in some store.

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pombrand
The realnews headline: "Juice in excess is not healthy. Same goes for fruit."
Guess that wouldn't get many clicks.

As long as you don't consume too many calories or spike your insulin too high
by drinking large quantities at once, juice can be healthy. The phytonutrients
and vit c will prevent the uric acid serum spike you get from fructose, soft
drinks have also been proven not to increase c reactive protein. Although with
less fiber it'll always be inferior to eating (or drinking) whole fruits.

------
hkmurakami
I eat a lot of fruit right now. About 4 oranges and 1-2 bananas a day. I'm
actually worried that my sugar consumption is too high even from these natural
sources. Anyone have some insight?

~~~
ThrowawayP
(I am not a physician and this is not medical advice.)

Recommended maximum intake of sugars per day: 37.5g (men) / 25g (women)

Avg. sugars per banana: 14g Avg. sugars per orange: 9g

4 x 9g + (1 or 2) x 14g = 50-64g actual sugar intake per day from the fruits
listed.

That being said, each person's metabolism behaves differently so there's no
specific action that you necessarily need to take. You may wish to ask your
physician do the appropriate blood tests to check for pre-diabetes at every
annual physical.

[http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-
conditions/prediabetes/di...](http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-
conditions/prediabetes/diagnosis-treatment/diagnosis/dxc-20270049)

~~~
throwaway8899g
Isn't that 37.5g figure for _added_ sugars? I.e. Non-naturally occurring
sugars in the food we eat.

~~~
ThrowawayP
It is technically for added sugars. However, this individual is consuming an
unusually high amount of fruit, IMO, and sugar is sugar, no matter its source.
One can't reasonably claim, for example, that drinking a glass of freshly
squeezed orange juice isn't a source of sugar even if no additional sugar was
explicitly mixed in.

As I said, the blood tests will show whether or not there's actually a problem
with his/her sugar intake.

~~~
hkmurakami
Thanks for the input! Hopefully this high intake is balanced by the fact that
I'm training for a triathlon and marathon, but I'm due for a blood test
anyways so I will have a medical facility check me out. :)

~~~
calvano915
Perhaps add some variety - like berries - to cut the sugar a bit and more
diversity of nutrients :)

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sebleon
Tldr; eat fruit and smoothies, don't drink juice

"Pulp" left behind during juicing contains the most wholesome parts of fruits,
which prevent glucose spikes and contain most micronutrients

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mifreewil
An interesting analogy to think of is eating fruit naturally is like chewing
coca leaves. Drinking fruit juice would be like snorting cocaine.

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aries1980
I don't get. If you drink 500ml of juice your intake will be ~250-300 kcals.
Then what? On a non-active day I burn ~3000 kcals a day. If you hit the gym
you can easily burn an additional 700 kcals per hour. To be fit, you need to
be active, and to be active you need energy.

~~~
zootam
one may naively think that drinking a glass of juice is 'healthier' than
drinking a can of soda- when in fact the caloric values and sugar contents may
be similar.

that is the important thing to take away from this article IMO.

~~~
throwaway91111
The point they forgot to address is that "healthiness" isn't a one dimensional
attribute.

Edit: from the same goddamn newspaper:
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/no-food-is-
hea...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/no-food-is-healthy-not-
even-kale/2016/01/15/4a5c2d24-ba52-11e5-829c-26ffb874a18d_story.html)

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return0
Are fruit even healthy, given sugar and all? (trying to justify my lack of
affection to them)

~~~
projectorlochsa
Concept of an ingredient being healthy does not exist in science. Is diet
filled with fruits and vegetables healthy? Of course. Starchy foods with high
nutrients per calories ratio have super high unattainable overdose amount.
That's why they are safe.

Eating 3000 kcal of bananas metabolises quite differently than 3000 kcal of
glucose sugar.

------
exabrial
"juice" may be bad (filtered water, flavoring from cologne makers, syrup), but
what about whole blended fruits?

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elmerland
I wonder how do cold pressed vegetable/fruit juices compare to plain fruit
juice?

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parrellel
I continue to be impressed by the pushback by the corn industry on HFC.

Quick, someone prove fruits and vegetables are poison!

I'm not saying that there isn't something to what they're saying, but the
timing is... shall we say... convenient.

~~~
andrewguenther
They're not telling you to run and eat HFC products. They're just saying that
eating a whole fruit is healthier than just the juice. And that's something
nutritionists have been saying for the last decade or more.

------
merraksh
The article seems to point to these two as the main reasons why fruit juice is
not as good as fruit:

1) _when you make juice, you leave some of the most wholesome parts of the
fruit behind. The skin on an apple, the seeds in raspberries and the membranes
that hold orange segments together — they are all good for you. That is where
most of the fiber, as well as many of the antioxidants, phytonutrients,
vitamins and minerals are hiding. Fiber is good for your gut; it fills you up
and slows the absorption of the sugars you eat, resulting in smaller spikes in
insulin._

2) _when you drink your calories instead of eating them, your brain doesn’t
get the same “I’m full” signal that it does from solid food, even though you
wind up consuming far more calories in the process._

[edit: clarified text is quoted from the article]

~~~
foo101
If I put a whole apple with its skin or raspberry with its seed, or orange in
a mixer-grinder, how or when exactly do I lose the skin, seeds or membranes
during the process of making juice?

~~~
Artemis2
Wouldn't that be a smoothie? I'm curious about the difference with just eating
the fruit.

~~~
jpalomaki
I've heard some claims that blending would break up the fruit in too small
many pieces leading to sugars that absorb more quickly - but I've never seen
anything to back these claims.

One difference is of course that when you eat the fruit, you chew it. This
takes time and this may give some "food coming, hunger over" signal to the
brain. Smoothies are so easy to drink that you might be getting way more
fruits than you would normally eat.

~~~
throwaway91111
What is the problem with rapid metabolism? Isn't that a good thing, so long as
you have the varied nutrients to ensure the long tail of metabolism? E.g. A
mixture of fructose, glucose, and more complex carbohydrates.

------
mandeepj
First they came after milk and now juice

~~~
brianwawok
The article actually mentions you should drink Milk but not Juice. I bet we
can find a juice industry blog where they advise Juice but not Milk.

Personally I avoid both for my kids. Juice is sugar water, and my kids are not
calves, so they have no need for baby cow food.

~~~
praneshp
What do they drink after they are past breast-feeding age? Or are you saying
that milk is not all that necessary once you are not a baby anymore?

~~~
brianwawok
99% water.

Correct human babies past say 1 don't need 10 more years of cow milk to be
healthy or have strong bones.

Youngest is lactose intolerant so that makes it a bit easier.

Can do almond milk but she doesn't love it.

~~~
praneshp
Okay, thanks for answering!

------
tkyjonathan
This article is largely non-sense and not scientific at all. Here we go again
with the fruit = sugar = evil, when I have yet to see an overweight person
that eats too much fruit. There are communities of people called fruitarians
that only eat raw fruit and vegetables and are largely very healthy. And yes..
they juice.

The problem with diabetes is that the cells of the body have too much
saturated fat which blocks in the insulin receptors.

------
Falling3
Strange... the author claims milk is necessary for healthy growth in young
children (which is ridiculous in its own right) and links to a study on fruit
consumption.

~~~
darkstar999
Human milk or cow's milk?

~~~
Falling3
Doesn't specify, but in the context, cow's milk seems like a fair assumption.

------
Network2020
I don't even have to check to know that this "research" was funded by one of
three groups...

1\. The Corn Industry because they want us to believe that high-fructose corn
syrup is just as healthy as natural fruit sugars

2\. The Dairy industry because they want us to believe drinking fresh juice is
just as bad as drinking anything else

3\. Big Pharma because they don't make money on healthy people. They need us
to keep buying prescription drugs so that they remain profitable.

------
tgb29
Misleading title -- Vegetable juice isn't bad like fruit juice. We should be
targeting "sugar" and not "fruit" or "juice." Sugar from fruit isn't as bad as
processed sugar, but from my experiences, too much fruit has the same negative
effects as eating candy or sugar laced cereal. Fruit in moderation seems to be
ok.

~~~
tgb29
The title was changed after my comment.

------
throwaway91111
People tossing around the word "healthy" like it's a well-grounded term.

Obviously, juice is full of vitamins and micronutrients. It's dense as hell.
It's an expressway to diabetes if you drink lots of it. But damn if it isn't
an effective cure for scurvy, low blood sugar, fainting, etc.

I don't disagree with the article; however, the moralizing of health is
absolutely moronic. There aren't good foods and bad foods; there is only
nutrition and the decisions you make.

Edit: from the same goddamn newspaper:
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/no-food-is-
hea...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/no-food-is-healthy-not-
even-kale/2016/01/15/4a5c2d24-ba52-11e5-829c-26ffb874a18d_story.html)

------
itsmemattchung
Although I'm a proponent of smoothies over juices, I disagree with this
article's stance. The article argues that drinking juice leads to diabetes:

"She had always been overweight and had relatives with diabetes, but she
believed she lived a healthy lifestyle. One of the habits that she identified
as healthy was drinking freshly squeezed juice, which she saw as a virtuous
food, every day. We asked her to stop drinking juice entirely. She left the
office somewhat unconvinced, but after three months of cutting out the juice
and making some changes to her diet, her diabetes was under control without
the need for insulin."

Read between the lines: "she had always been overweight ... she made some
changes to her diet". I highly doubt that cutting out juice, and juice alone,
resulted in the patient living a healthier lifestyle. This is misleading.
Unless the patient was downing a gallon of juice every day, eliminating
juices—from whole fruit, not processed concentrated crap—would not solve her
diabetes.

~~~
VLM
Why?

I'm not usually an authoritarian but the article seemed to provide a
reasonable explanation why, and was written by three doctors working at a
diabetes clinic, so "I don't think so" by anonymous internet dude is
incredibly unconvincing.

Although you provided absolutely no reason why, I could provide a reason that
seems perfectly reasonable to a normie, in that its well known to normies that
relatively minor arithmetic mistakes by diabetics can result in a under or
overdose coma related to insulin intake. Therefore if being a serving off for
a diabetic can result in passing out, it seems very reasonable that junk food
like juice products could be the difference between insulin and no insulin
required for someone near the border. If force feeding a serving of stuff (in
this case juice, but it could just as well be candy bars) would make my
diabetic coworker really sick, it seems extremely reasonable that cutting out
that serving from someone almost as sick, would make their doctor happier.

"Unless the patient was downing a gallon of juice every day"

A gallon of OJ contains about 2K calories. Two large 16 oz glasses per day,
perhaps one with breakfast and one as a snack, adds up to a quart or 500
calories per day. If you multiply that out, that kind of intake is a gain or
loss of fifty or so pounds per year, no laughing matter. A gallon of juice per
day would be insane, gain a couple pounds per week.

