
Ask HN: Annual Bonus Time, Team's Not Happy - le-mark
I&#x27;m a manager of a team in a large company. Annual raises came out. I had a pool to divy up, which I did, and then my recommendations were ignored by higher management. The pool went else where, and my team got scraps.<p>This team is quite good, they really kicked ass last year. A lot of overtime on a very high profile project. Feedback I got was they expected more, and I did to.<p>So question; how to handle this? Worst case is I lose some people. Well maybe that&#x27;s not worst case, maybe worst case it they disengage.
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sameyolo
A lot of really poor advice so far in this thread. Unfortunately your personal
best bet is probably to do nothing. If it really bugged you, find a new job
silently because everyone is hiring.

The realistic answer is that you deliver the news to your team during your one
on ones, explain the matter was not in your hands, and move on. If someone
leaves over pay (which is reasonable) but you do not control pay, then it's
not on you.

Don't be too hard on yourself.

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mattbillenstein
This can probably be grouped with the "poor advice in this thread"

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jags-v
\- Raise this issue with the people who decide the pools and pay . The team
did everything possible , if not addressed properly , one should not expect
them to go above and beyond the norm.

\- Communicating to the team that you tried, is not good enough, because that
is the least that is expected of you as the mananger ( if sounds rude, i am
sorry , not the intention).

Potential Solution :

Making a case to the higher ups , showing them that retaining the great team
is cheaper than hiring some one else over a period of 2 to 5 years would be
helpful. Show them the impact on delivery of features,etc.

if this did not work, ask why so that , it does not repeat again or you can
set expectations saying , this is what you get for what you are paying.

I am assuming , there is no equity involved in these discussions. Equity will
change the whole dynamics of this discussion.

Potential Solution # 2:

The rewards need not always be monetary. If you can replace that , with
something they want , say sponsoring their Apple WWDC trip or DisneyLand
tickets or something , in a way that is not a HR nightmare, would be something
to explore. That being said, it is tricky and will not work always.

Cheers.

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scarface74
That cost money either way. The best non monetary compensation you can give is
comp days.

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levlaz
This is a tough situation. I'm hoping this discussion gets some traction
because I would love to get some feedback from others in the community.

> I had a pool to divy up, which I did, and then my recommendations were
> ignored by higher management.

Did you raise this back to higher management?

> Worst case is I lose some people.

The cost of losing a good person is much higher than whatever raise they might
have gotten (in most cases). I would reiterate this point to the higher-ups.

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playing_colours
Next time, do not agree easily on overtimes for your team, if they are not
paid generously. Companies say inspirational bullshit to encourage employees
to work more than 40 hrs. In most cases, these sacrifices won’t be rewarded,
so your people will be miserable and feel betrayed.

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mnm1
I guarantee you they're already disengaged if that's the feedback you got. I
don't see anything you can do to get the money for your team. You just have to
accept it. It's a shitty situation. Your engineers should leave if they can
and they absolutely should disengage if not. That's life. That's what's going
to happen barring some miracle from the execs or whoever controls the money.
The execs should also know this, but most likely they are psychopaths and
don't give a fuck. You seem to be a caring manager who is stuck in the middle.
There's a reason these psychopaths put you there and it's to act as a cushion
between them and what they consider disposable plebs. I hope they're at least
paying you decent money for it. The fact that you get things done and complete
the explicitly stated part of your job is for the psychopaths just icing on
the cake. Of course, when you don't because your entire team is gone or
disengaged, they'll have no qualms about letting you or them go. C'est la vie.
This is the position you pursue as a middle manager.

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arandr0x
If the company performed well, and politics or weird accounting ju-jitsu is
the reason for lower raises either across the board or in your department, you
can push for the top 2-3 employees to be awarded RSUs or stock options, those
usually are very well received and they're good retention mechanisms.

If somebody has ever come to you looking for a promotion or transfer (either
works in this case), give them a great annual review (meaning: huge praise, no
nitpicking) so they have a better chance at escaping your clearly
underappreciated team.

Otherwise, give the news 1:1 (no team meeting for bad news please) and tell
the truth, but not bitterly, and don't linger on the topic. Explain the
priorities for next year.

As far as your own position, you need to figure out (with top management/your
management) how your department is seen, who decides of the final allocation,
and why you're getting scraps. Money is feedback and the feedback you're given
is no one care about you or your team. No it doesn't matter if they say
otherwise, what matters is their actions.

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rgbrenner
When you say elsewhere.. where did it go? What reason did they give for
reallocating it? How's the company doing overall?

Edit: another question: how's the teams compensation compared to market?

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weekay
,`Feedback I got was they expected more, and I did to.'

Doesn't your company have a set criteria for bonus payout like for eg.,
Derived from overall company performance, department performance , down to
team and individual performance? If it doesn't and you believe your team
deserve a higher payout ,clearly the management team doesn't agree with that
and so do you as you expected more. Without a set and agreed bonus payout
criteria it is left to a committee or judgement of a few , who I believe have
weighed the scenario of your teams morale going down and potentially losing a
few people. They are okay with that. Clearly wherever the money have moved to
is the area they all collectively value. I have seen this happen especially in
the case of a team that is managing and maintaining a legacy environment tend
to not get favourable bonus payout even when they put in extra hours but other
teams who are working on the newer releases etc are favoured as they are the
future systems.

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uptownfunk
It depends on what alternatives you and your team have. If you think they
think can easily find better employment elsewhere after they really showed up
for you as a leader and put in the effort, doesn’t really seem like it would
make sense for them to stay. You don’t get a lot of second chances as a
leader, the deck is stacked against you in these cases. I think it would speak
volumes about your character if you also showed up for your team when it
sounds like they got short changed, at the same time you have to be strategic
as well, only risk standing up for your team if you can take the downside risk
and find employment elsewhere if management doesn’t capitulate to your
request..

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zhte415
If you have a HRBP to go to, I'd suggest going to them with your concerns.

Different corps have different setups, but often a fixed pool across teams and
staying relevant (+/\- X%) to market across teams is often a common thread.

Could you speak with your senior management, including HR and your Head, and
seek to align your expectations with theirs. Sounds like something you need to
sit down with them and voice concerns in a mature way, but don't expect an
approval for extra budget. Doing this is prep for the coming assessment and
salary adjustment cycle. HN can only do so much and that's often jumping to
conclusions or a commentator being blinkered by their own experience only.

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mattbillenstein
Take a stand - ask for the funds under the condition that you'll resign if you
don't get them. If you have to resign, tell your team why. The market is too
good to tolerate this sorta thing from a company imho.

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listenallyall
Sounds like 100% guarantee to be let go, because who would defend him? Top
mgmt obviously considers him a low performer (or manager of a low-performing
dept), as evidenced by the "scraps" they got. And the employees under him
don't want to work for a manager perceived to be weak, who is unable to
deliver at bonus time. (worse -- was unable to even prevent the bonus pool
that was initially earmarked for that team to be taken away and given to
another dept). Seems like both sides would have no problem replacing the OP
with someone else.

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swagasaurus-rex
Sounds like a 100% bad situation.

Why stay where you are, in the most clear terms, unappreciated?

You're asking to be reorg'ed out of the company anyways. This is one case
where following your pride is the right option. It's like ending a bad
relationship; things will only get worse.

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listenallyall
Never said OP should stick around long-term. But leave on his own terms, after
securing employment elsewhere, or with some other plan. As opposed to laying
down an ultimatum, in which case he could be shown the door in a matter of
days.

Better yet, if he wants to express loyalty to his team, work his personal
network on the side to get each of his team members hired at a more
appreciative company, and be the _last_ one to jump ship, only after all the
direct reports have safely been "rescued" via better employment opportunities.

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cimmanom
This advice may be the “right thing” to do by the team but may not be legally
sound, depending on the OP’s contract with their employer. In fact it may not
be legally sound even in the absence of a contract, depending on how a court
interprets the implicit obligations between employer and employee. (I am not a
lawyer and this is not legal advice, of course. Just consult one before doing
anything like this.)

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consultutah
Do a lot of companies do bonuses in March? Are there other ways to compensate
the key devs? We have awards we can give out monthly. It’s nice to compensate
extra effort right when it happens.

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decebalus1
OP, if your company hands out bonuses in March/April you may wanna change your
profile's email address... It was super easy to find out who you are, where
you work, etc..

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rdiddly
Bonuses, or raises? Not clear.

Seems like this already happened, so there isn't anything to handle. Tell your
people that your managers ignored your recommendations and that you're looking
for a new job where they don't do that.

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Spooky23
The answer depends on your political position, goal, and capital in the
organization.

Bonuses are done. They generally don’t come out again. I would focus on
understanding why and getting better positioned for next year.

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purplezooey
You have horse shit management. Been there. Not much you can do except tell
him/her how you feel.

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lugg
So much of this thread is just people working off the assumption a bonus is
part of your comp.

Its not. It's a bonus. If it's part of what you think of as your comp, you got
shafted during negs when you got hired.

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Latteland
This might be your view of the world, but most people don't work that way.
Companies often have "target bonuses". If most people don't get their it, and
there was no big problem justifying it, people will quit.

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patrickg_zill
Were they paid for their overtime?

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consultutah
Not op, but very unlikely if they are salaried in the US. I should know. I’ve
been a salaried drone putting in way too many hours for years. ;)

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ThrowAway1453
This is on YOU.

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efader
Leave

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cameldrv
I don't get the premise of the question. You say "they really kicked ass last
year", and then "they expected more and I did to." Which is it? Did the team
do well or poorly?

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vincentperes
The team expected a bigger raise

