
Ask HN: DSLR vs. MirrorLess cameras. Best resources for learning photography? - hss
I want to learn photography and choosing a camera is probably the second and most important step for it (first being deciding what to take photo of and for what purpose).<p>I want to move beyond smartphone photography. I was aware of the term DSLR and started my research around it. During my research I stumbled upon the term MirrorLess. Further research showed that it is relatively newer technology (~10yr old as compare to ~60yr old DSLR tech). It&#x27;s still maturing. I am unable to decide just how mature it is as of today.<p>I come across some articles like &quot;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;photographylife.com&#x2F;mirrorless-vs-dslr&quot; which list pros-vs-cons of both. I found these very helpful, however these articles are mostly 2-3 years old, and I am not sure if landscape around cameras has changed since then.<p>I would like to know if MirrorLess can compete with DSLR at different price points like $500, $750, $1000+.<p>Also, what are some good resources (online videos, articles, books etc) for learning photography?
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bluedino
IMO you are putting the cart before the horse. It's kind of like asking, "I
want to learn programming, should I buy a Dell or Mac?" Buy a cheap, used
DSLR. Hopefully one with a bunch of accesories. Whether that is a Nikon or
Canon is another post entirely. But don't worry about that now. Take lots of
pictures! That old camera takes just as good of shots as it did 10 years ago
when it was new. Local community classes have photography classes. Keep
shooting, make friends, edit the photso onyour PC. After some time passes,
you'll handle other cameras and find out what YOU need. At this point, buy.
Worst case, you tire of the hobby in a few months, you're only out $300
instead of $1500.

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snazz
I wouldn’t spend any excessive amount of time debating whether to get an SLR
or a mirrorless camera. You’ll notice a big improvement over your smartphone
with either. DSLRs can often be purchased used for cheaper and have better
battery life, but mirrorless cameras are much smaller (the adage about the
best camera being the one you have with you applies).

I also wouldn’t focus on getting the latest tech. I have a Nikon D80 from 2006
that, although it has a 10MP CCD sensor, which has a high noise floor and a
low top ISO, is a perfectly functional camera that I use all the time.

If you have a camera store in your area, ask to see their used DSLRs and
mirrorless cameras. You’re much better off spending less on the camera body
and getting a few more lenses than you would be getting a top-of-the-line body
and a junky kit lens. For three- to five-year-old cameras, DSLRs might be a
better deal, and the standard SLR mount lenses are much more common and should
be cheaper.

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pbalau
The biggest difference between a DSLR and a mirrorless is the wayfinder: on
mirrorless you get digital vs analog on dslr (via the mirror system). In terms
of controls, both have more or less the same, with some naming differences.

I would go for second hand set, either canon or nikon, whatever model!, with
the stock zoom lens (18-55) and get a fixie (not zoom lens, 50mm works great
for lots of conditions and most of them are fast). This should cover you for a
while, maybe even years. When you literally run the thing down and think you
can't progress anymore, you will most likely have a clear idea what you want
from a camera.

Don't get bogged down by all the awesome new things cameras can do, to learn
you need aperture priority and shutter priority. You will find that all decent
cameras have that. Probably, pretty quickly you will need manual iso and white
balance settings, but again, most cameras have that too.

So, go on, buy the cheapest set you can find, that' still a dslr with
changeable lenses, get the two lenses I recommended and start shooting. After
you figure out what you like to shoot, because you will never be able to shoot
everything at the same level, focus on that.

~~~
jsjohnst
> on mirrorless you get digital vs analog on dslr

There’s plenty of dSLRs with digital viewfinders at all price points in
virtually all brands.

~~~
pbalau
why they need the mirrors then? (genuinely asking)

~~~
jsjohnst
The mirror is for the small optical viewfinder window at the top. When you hit
the button for live preview, the mirror is “locked up” and the main sensor
powers a “live view” on the LCD screen which gives you a preview including
aperture/iso/exposure/etc settings all applied just like on many mirrorless
cameras.

The reason the small viewfinder exists is because it draws power to keep the
sensor on and the mirror locked up. Keeping the sensor on for long periods of
time can cause the sensor to heat up which will degrade picture quality
(albeit not by a lot with current high end sensors, so the main reason is
power draw). Historically the focusing and E-TTL sensors were also only on the
same side of the mirror as the optical viewfinder, so you’d lose auto-focus
and flash metering when the mirror was locked up, but that is generally not
the case anymore.

~~~
pbalau
> The mirror is for the small optical viewfinder

That's what I meant. It didn't occur to me that the bigger display is a
viewfinder too...

~~~
jsjohnst
Yes, it is, unless you want to be uber pedantic.

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PeterBarrett
There is quite a few great comments in this thread but I just want to add that
getting a quality lens has a much bigger impact on your image quality than the
camera body. A quality body with a bad lens is a waste of time.

Different eco systems have a varied number of lenses at each price point, for
example you will be able to pick up an old but great canon lens cheap enough
but if you go with Sony you will be spending much more to get a quality lens
as their eco system is much younger. (I'm a Sony user btw)

Regards resources there is hundreds of Youtube videos for learning but be
careful about getting caught up in the gear hype. I like Thomas Heaton [1]

Think about how you will be displaying the images, if you are just sharing to
Instagram then you don't need a >16mp sensor.

No one can really tell you what exactly to do, it's bit of a journey to find
out how you enjoy taking photos but it's a great hobby!

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfhW84xfA6gEc4hDK90rR1Q](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfhW84xfA6gEc4hDK90rR1Q)

------
forgottenpass
Get a used camera at a pricepoint that doesn't matter if you choose wrong.
Experience isn't just going to teach you how to understand the on-paper specs
of the camera, you're going to learn what you find important in a camera.

If you fall down the photography rabbit hole, you'll very quickly end up
spending way more on lenses than camera bodies, so don't sweat it. Picking
which lens ecosystem(s) you want to get locked into is a more important
question. And even then, you have multiple good choices and hardware with
resale value.

2-3 year old articles are fine for shopping advice, you should buy something
at least that old. If you needed more-advanced camera tech, you would already
know exactly how to choose the right camera for you.

------
amerkhalid
I really like DPReview's recommendations:
[https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/buying-guide-best-
cameras-f...](https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/buying-guide-best-cameras-for-
beginners)

Photography is one of my top hobbies. Some people will tell you to just buy
any decent cheap camera and start taking photos. But to me the research is one
of the most important and enjoyable part. I love reading various reviews and
watching YouTube videos. Also I follow some photographers like Von Wong
([https://www.vonwong.com/](https://www.vonwong.com/)) and learn a lot from
them.

Now photography can be very expensive hobby, there was a time when I was
buying every single lens, gadget, gizmo recommended/used by these amazing
photographers. But the good news is that it is very easy to sell and buy used
photography gear. Sometimes I even made money when I sold used gear after
trying it out for a few months.

Lately, I use x100f which is a mirrorless camera. My previous camera was a
dslr, D750. Professional reviews will show D750 is way better camera than
x100f. To me the best feature of x100f is all the knobs and handling.
Sometimes you have to try out camera for a few days to see how you feel about
it.

Image quality is almost indistinguishable between modern cameras. Autofocus
speed and low light performance is where you will notice huge differences
between entry level and high-end cameras.

I say read a lot, borrow your friends' cameras, try them out in stores, watch
videos like:
[https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fujifilm+x100f](https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fujifilm+x100f)
Finally, when you buy a camera from store, don't feel shy about returning it
if it doesn't click with you :) If you buy used, sell it if you don't like it.
Also kit lens is usually not that good. First lens I would recommend on any
camera system would be fast lens like 35mm/50mm/85mm f/1.8.

~~~
hss
How important is "Environmental Sealing" ? It's a feature which is generally
not available in beginner DSLR but I feel beginners need it the most

~~~
amerkhalid
IMO, not that important. I have Nex-3N as a throw-around camera. It is at
least, 5 years old. Basically, we take it wherever we feel that our fancy
"artistic" X100F might get damaged. We have taken it on beaches, handed to
kids to take photos during parties, etc. It still works.

------
theandrewbailey
I was shopping around for a camera about 4 years ago. I realized that normal
digital cameras are essentially smartphones. So I bought a Nikon D3300 (DSLR,
~$500). I haven't bought any extra things for it (used what was in the box),
and an acquaintance gave me a tripod he wasn't using. I've considered getting
a long focus lens, but the stock lens is sufficient for me (cue horror from
"pro photographers").

I've never used a camera this good before, and I've been happy with the
quality of every photo I've taken, even if the subject and framing isn't
right. Yes, it's a bit bulky, but I don't mind. I haven't looked around at
other cameras since, and I plan on using it as long as I can.

My advice: get a camera that gives you the quality you're looking for, take
some good shots, and don't look back!

~~~
ValentineC
> _I 've considered getting a long focus lens, but the stock lens is
> sufficient for me (cue horror from "pro photographers")._

Two reasons you'd want to get special lenses would be:

1) to reach a certain zoom length for sports, animals, or architecture; or

2) to get nicer bokeh for portraits.

~~~
theandrewbailey
Exactly. I often find myself shooting pictures and videos from across a church
sanctuary (I'm my church's semi/un/official photographer). I've considered
getting a lens because of that, but the stock lens's maximum zoom is good
enough, especially if I walk around a bit.

------
runjake
Careful. Learning photography can be like learning the new productivity method
du jour.

That said, the book Understanding Exposure by Bryan Peterson was recommended
to me a long time ago and provided me with immediate and stunning results. Buy
it though, don't download one of the numerous copies online.

~~~
cromiium
Any reason to not download it? Do you mean to support Peterson or for some
other reason?

~~~
runjake
It was a hint, but yeah support the author. I initially torrented a copy,
liked it, and bought it off of Amazon. And it's a great book to thumb through.

------
mattkrea
You'll be fine with either. Just pick a camera you can afford and focus on
quality glass (lenses). I personally prefer the Canon system so my
recommendation would either be a T7i (DSLR) or, if you can afford the upgrade,
the EOS R (Mirrorless and my current primary).

Biggest con these days on mirrorless is they tend to run through a battery
charge about twice as fast as a DSLR equivalent.

For materials.. as much as I've not been fond of youtube in the past for
whatever reason I find it extremely valuable today. Peter McKinnon is pretty
great or if you want to start with landscapes maybe check out Thomas Heaton.

------
PaulHoule
I was a fan of Canon SLRs for a long time. I lost my camera and my best lens a
while ago and spent some time looking at the latest offerings by Cannon and
Nikon. In particular I was interested in getting a "full frame" camera because
of its greater light collecting capacity.

When I looked at reviews of the lower-end full frame cameras from Canon and
Nikon I found countless complaints.

Then I took a look at this camera

[https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-
alpha-7-ii](https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-alpha-7-ii)

and saw it on sale for about $1000 at retailers such as Best Buy.

I think it is just great. The choice of Sony lenses is not as good as Canon or
Nikon, and particularly some of the high end glass is expensive, but the
choice is not bad and is getting better.

The advantage of DSLR is that you can set up your shot on a ground glass
screen and see it through the viewfinder. Maybe that is a tough more accurate
than the rear and viewfinder displays of a DSLR, but the ability to sight
through the rear like a point-and-shoot is convenient.

My Sony also shoots startlingly good video, in fact the sound isn't half bad
using the mic built into the camera.

~~~
ValentineC
> _When I looked at reviews of the lower-end full frame cameras from Canon and
> Nikon I found countless complaints._

I've had a Nikon D700 for 11 years and I'm still pretty happy with its
usability (at peak usage, I'd often considered it an extension of my body) and
the quality of the photos it produces, even though my tolerance for how much
weight I'd like to carry has gone down as I grew older.

------
agarv
Disclaimer: I am not a professional photographer nor formally studied
photography, and have never used a DSLR, but I have been using mirrorless
cameras (Sony NEX series) since 2011.

While there are generally less "native" camera lenses for mirrorless systems,
one less well known/publicized advantage of using them is that you can use
film camera lenses. While you do not get autofocus and there might be
vignetting at the corners (which I personally like anyway), you can get a good
quality lens for a good price by doing this. It also can be cool if you are
trying to recreate a "vintage" look, or just going for something weird or
unusual. All that is required is a cheap adapter that you costs around $5 on
ebay. Two of my personal favorite lenses to use are the Jupiter 9 (the whole
Jupiter series are Soviet copies of Carl Zeiss lenses) that I got for $175,
and the SLR magic 3517E which I got for $37. This video has a general
overview:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQLi4g-wyDA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQLi4g-wyDA)

------
gmiller123456
#1 Join a photography club and become very active in it, not much else will
help you learn faster. I waited about 10 years before joining a club, and it's
the one thing I wish I did from the start. The club I'm most active in also
has monthly competitions with an external judge brought in (both print and
digital). That also helps a lot, as you get to see what other people consider
their best work and discuss it.

As far as mirrorless vs DSLR. I think the mirrorless craze is mostly over.
There is a group that tracks industry trends (which I can't find right now)
and the mirrorless market is on the way down.

I looked into getting a mirrorless several years ago. I think they have two
advantages. 1. They weight a lot less and are smaller, so they work well for
hiking and backpacking and other situations where photography isn't your main
reason for going. 2. You can usually find adapters for most of them to use
"normal" DSLR lenses, though usually with some limitations.

But there are a lot of downsides to mirrorless. The market is pretty
fragmented, so there might be good lenses/accessories that aren't available no
matter which you line choose. Most of the lenses are low end, and there isn't
much competition in the high end lenses. Once you've got a few good lenses and
a good tripod, the size/weight advantage of the mirrorless body becomes
negligable. The market is young and fragile, so it's very likely which ever
brand you choose might go out of business or become obsolete.

In the end I didn't find a mirrorless as being right for me. I wanted one for
backpacking and kayaking, and to have at the ready in my car for unexpected
opportunities. But I found getting some lenses for my cell phone suited me a
lot better for those casual needs. And I carry my heavy DLSR and tripod on the
hikes.

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hazz99
As someone who made this decision recently, I decided on a Sony a6000 and have
loved it. The cameras quality is pretty high, and my photography skills will
likely never hit the "quality ceiling" where I need to buy a better camera to
progress.

Its small, so I'm motivated to take it with me. Its not too big & chunky. Its
great for bringing on holidays, but also good enough to throw some lenses in
my bag for if I see something fancy.

The electronic viewfinder is amazing for understanding the interplay between
aperture, shutter speed, ISO and zoom levels, because they change in real-
time.

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steve90
Mirrorless is undoubtedly the future of serious photography but I don't think
the systems are quite there yet. If you want a full system of lenses today a
Canon or Nikon full frame DSLR is your best bet. There are lots of online
resources to learn photography e.g. Ken Rockwell's website. I think the best
advice is to shoot things that you are genuinely interested in - e.g. I love
portraits and landscapes but have no interest in macro photography of bugs or
flowers.

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wanderr
A lot of people saying it doesn't matter which one you go with, and that's
mostly true, but "The best camera is the one that's with you" and mirrorless
cameras are lighter and smaller. The weight and size difference may or may not
be significant enough to determine how likely you are to bring your camera
with you, but for me it's the difference between bringing it on a hike or
leaving it at home.

------
cygned
If you want to learn about photography as well as physics and technology
behind it, I recommend Ken Rockwell‘s site which has numerous reviews and how-
to articles on these topics.

[https://kenrockwell.com/tech.htm](https://kenrockwell.com/tech.htm)

------
cabalamat
One advantage of DSLRs is you can often pick up second hand lenses for them,
at a fraction of the price that a new one would cost. For example I have an
f1.4 50mm Pentax lens that cost me about £20 (although it doesn't have
autofocus). A new equivalent would cost c. £380.

