
Scandinavian Monitoring Stations Detect Unexplained Radiation Spike over Europe - finphil
https://www.iflscience.com/physics/unexplained-radiation-spike-over-europe-detected-by-scandinavian-monitoring-stations/
======
jononor
Earlier discussion on Hacker News:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23662241](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23662241)

------
Merrill
>The 9M730 Burevestnik (Russian: Буревестник; "Petrel", NATO reporting name:
SSC-X-9 Skyfall) is a Russian experimental nuclear-powered, nuclear-armed
cruise missile under development for the Russian Armed Forces. The missile is
claimed to have virtually unlimited range.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9M730_Burevestnik](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9M730_Burevestnik)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Central_Navy_Testing_Ran...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Central_Navy_Testing_Range)

~~~
kjaftaedi
Exactly the reason we don't have nuclear powered aircraft.

Disasters would be magnified exponentially.

~~~
wongarsu
We don't have nuclear powered aircraft because the required shielding was too
heavy. Both the US and the USSR tried in the 1950s and 1960s, but the only
"successful" program was the Soviet Tu-95LAL which got around the problem by
simply omitting most of the shielding, irradiating the crew.

Then the ICBM made the strategic bomber obsolete, and there was no incentive
to sink any more money into nuclear-powered aircraft. Concern for safety had
little to do with it, especially if you compare it to other occurrences at the
time [1]. Now we can build autonomous vehicles that don't care about radiation
and can make use of all that power, and that's exactly what Russia is doing.

0: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear-
powered_aircraft](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear-powered_aircraft)

1:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_nuclear_accid...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_nuclear_accidents#1950s)

------
lkrubner
I first learned of Fiona Hill when she testified at the impeachment hearings,
and since she sounded very intelligent I went and got her book (which she
wrote with Clifford Gabby) "Mr Putin" which, I've learned, is widely
considered the best psychological portrait of Putin that exists.

The authors are surprisingly respectful of Putin's methods, especially in the
early days. And in the debate over "Is Putin or rational or not" they seem to
clearly answer "Yes, he is rational." Especially regarding Crimea, they point
out that Putin clearly explained that if the West interfered in the Ukraine,
then Russia would have to consider that intervention an offensive action, and
make a response, so when the West sided with "pro Western" forces in the
Ukraine in 2013/2014, Putin felt that he had clearly warned the West that he
was going to respond.

It is useful and interesting to understand some of his motivation.

Having said all that, there is a lot that is disappointing about his inability
to pull modern Russia past any of the major failings of the USSR, in
particular the lack of transparency. More than ever, Russia relies on oil
exports, despite his stated intention to re-industrialize Russia, Putin has
not managed to rebuild the economy to the Great Power status that the country
held during the middle of the 20th Century. Instead of real progress, what we
see is the irritation of a power that knows it has fallen down.

------
dharma1
Update from the radiation authority in Finland -

[https://www.stuk.fi/-/stukin-helsingissa-ja-kotkassa-
havaits...](https://www.stuk.fi/-/stukin-helsingissa-ja-kotkassa-
havaitsemilla-radioaktiivisilla-aineilla-ei-ole-vaikutusta-
sateilytilanteeseen)

Translation - very low levels of airborne radioactive isotopes have been
detected in the last couple of weeks (Co-60, Ru-103, Cs-134, Cs-137, Zr-95,
Nb-95) but they are not high quantities enough to affect normal radiation
levels. They do not originate from Finland. The isotopes are the same as used
on nuclear power plants and small quantities can be from normal reactor use or
maintenance.

You can see realtime radiation levels here -
[https://www.stuk.fi/web/en/topics/environmental-
radiation/ra...](https://www.stuk.fi/web/en/topics/environmental-
radiation/radiation-today)

~~~
dharma1
If I had to have a wild guess (could be wrong) I would say it's from the
Sosnovy Bor plant near St. Petersburg.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leningrad_Nuclear_Power_Plant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leningrad_Nuclear_Power_Plant)
There is ongoing work to decommission the last Chernobyl style reactors by
2025. Hope it's all going safely!

------
twopointsix
Not great, not terrible

~~~
matthoiland
Completely normal phenomenon

------
ISL
Has anyone seen links to actual spectra from the monitoring organizations'
counters?

An example of the sort of thing I'm looking for:
[https://arxiv.org/pdf/1103.4853.pdf](https://arxiv.org/pdf/1103.4853.pdf)
(see Figure 1)

------
01100011
Yes, probably state sponsored actors in Russia.

Is constructing a device capable of sustaining a chain reaction all that
difficult though? We did it in the 40's with a big pile of uranium and some
graphite. Could an external thermal neutron source allow you to reduce the
size even further? I don't think it will be long before some idiot on youtube
creates one in his backyard. There are already communities of folks playing
with fusors, which can produce neutrons capable of activating nearby
materials.

We've all heard of the radioactive boy scout, and he figured out what he did
without youtube and ebay.

------
h0ek
So, nothing changed since 1986. I feel like I have a déjà vu.

------
NicoJuicy
How can a country be this stupid. Instead of entering modern world without war
and trade instead.

They consistently try to destroy everything possible.

Last week a major oil spill, radiation leak now. Previous radiation leak was
in 2017 and everyone remembers Tsjernobyl, I hope.

Killing people abroad ( Germany, London)

Invading Ukraine, for saving their naval army

Threatening Europe with fly overs

Meddling with elections and spreading misinformation.

In the mean time, they think they found an ally in China. While Russia is
getting pennies on the dollar, losing engineers to China and getting almost
zero "promised investments" of China. Lol

They already lost to democratic Europe during the USSR. I'm just waiting till
history repeats again somehow

~~~
bitcharmer
All true, however this is not specific to Russia only. It seems most large
powers exhibit bullying behaviour.

USA is only a little better (making up WMD to go to war with Iraq, meddling
with elections and democratic process in other countries, spying on allies,
etc). Then we have China which is probably yet another category of
international bully.

Sadly this is quite expected for global super powers...

~~~
NicoJuicy
Perhaps you're forgetting that Russia is not a super power.

They can extract cheap oil and try to sell their military equipment.

We'll see how that pans out in the future, while Europe is slowly moving to
green energy.

It's just nuts that they are throwing away the opportunity to correctly invest
oil/gas money, before it's over.

~~~
virtue3
In terms of military tech, Russia is #2. Period. (fast approaching Chinese
tho).

Their submarines and missiles are beyond our tech in the US in some aspects
(hypersonic missles, Supercavitation torpedos).

I view them like the 3rd opponent in a starcraft 1v1v1 that got smashed early.
They can't win the match, but they can decide the winner.

~~~
noir_lord
You have to be able to detect a submarine to fire on it and the US is a long
way ahead of Russia when it comes to both quiet submarines and passive towed
arrays.

In fact the original argument for the super-cavitating torpedo was one based
on the premise of killing a submarine that already fired on you that you
hadn't detected until it fired on you.

Russia has some showy tech (as you mentioned) but they lack in areas the US
was ahead of them in decades ago.

In terms of technology there are other countries with more sophisticated
defence capabilties where I am from is one (the UK) is one, much of the
technology the Russians export is things they did under the USSR (which
definitely was #2 in terms of military tech at that point).

When you get down to it though modern war is force projection and logistics
and there no one touches the Americans.

~~~
toyg
_> modern war is force projection_

The Russians seem to have projected pretty effectively in Crimea and Syria.
They’re not back to their peak but they’re trending up.

~~~
noir_lord
Crimea was on their doorstep and Assad already had strong ties to the
Russians.

The US Navy and marines are the 2nd largest Air Force in the world, the first
been the US airforce.

Russia is clearly a regional power but it is not a superpower except in
nuclear weapons but it would cease to exist shortly after using those.

I’ve no dog in the fight, I’m British but the US military is vast, it’s so
mind bogglingly big that it’s just taken for granted at this point.

In tonnage of combatants the US navy is larger than the next 8 combined, 6 of
who are allies.

It’s crazy how over gunned they are tbh and they spend less as a share of GDP
than the Russians do.

------
adamnemecek
You already know its from Russia.

~~~
_jal
More specifically, we know:

\- other possible sources in the area have a history of cooperation, so
process of elimination is rather suggestive.

\- Russia has leaked and not come clean before, so history is also rather
suggestive.

But who knows! It has already been a very weird year, anyone want to bet it
can't get weirder?

~~~
guerrilla
> Russia has leaked and not come clean before

Russia or the USSR?

~~~
me_me_me
Same leadership, different labels.

~~~
nix23
Also true for the US...hi Nixon ;)

[https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2019-09/news/us-completes-
in...](https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2019-09/news/us-completes-inf-treaty-
withdrawal)

