
If you want to make people suffer, teach them to use the PRIMARY clipboard - blueflow
https://blog.w1r3.net/2019/09/13/if-you-want-to-make-people-suffer-teach-them-primary-clipboard.html
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johnisgood
> Wanna copy a git url from Github to your terminal? NOPE.

But it works for me... I selected the the git URL, and then used the middle
button to paste it into my terminal (xterm). It works. OK, I can see why auto-
selection may be an issue, but it works after the second time (i.e. after you
selected it yourself). It would be better if there was no auto-selection upon
left clicking, but it is not that much of an issue. In fact, if I left click
on the git URL which makes the entire URL selected, I can press Ctrl-C and
then use the middle click to paste it into my terminal, no extra step
required, so auto-selection is not an issue in this case. _shrugs_.

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jolmg
So the other day, I found that emacs supports X's SECONDARY selection by
holding Alt before selecting on text. Does anyone know of another program
besides emacs that supports SECONDARY selection?

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ktpsns
Well, the UI designers certainly didn't know about the PRIMARY keyboard. And
to be honest, most Linux users also don't.

Does Wayland still support the PRIMARY clipboard?

~~~
jolmg
Hopefully. I find it to be more ergonomic as it requires fewer steps and only
a single device, the mouse. Just select text and click wherever you want to
paste it. The only problem I've found is, as the article notes, with some
"smart" text GUIs like some textareas in some websites and any text in a
browser's web inspector. I have a clipboard manager that synchronizes both
clipboards, so in those cases I can just Ctrl-C and then paste with
middleclick.

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Dylan16807
> Acessibility matters.

Okay, but there's no reason accessibility needs to be tied to one clipboard
and not the other.

And the system that automatically copies because it thinks I might want to
paste is the worse one.

Shift+Insert is a good paste combo for terminals, but I prefer that to use the
same clipboard as Ctrl+V.

~~~
jolmg
> Okay, but there's no reason accessibility needs to be tied to one clipboard
> and not the other.

Yeah, tying it to accessibility doesn't make sense. I think they probably
meant usability or whatever word conveys the idea of building an interface
that doesn't break pre-existing interface features or that align with the rest
of the system's conventions. Kind of like how some websites have buttons that
can only be activated with the mouse because they work by being bound to a
click event, and so that breaks the expectation that every link or button can
be activated with the keyboard's Enter key.

> And the system that automatically copies because it thinks I might want to
> paste is the worse one.

I really don't see the benefit of requiring an extra step to indicate that you
want to copy, much less from a different device. Do you often find it a
problem that it's done automatically? Like do you often select foo, then
select bar, and want to paste foo? That's probably the only benefit
Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V has over PRIMARY selection.

Or maybe you think selecting actually copies text? It only causes the program
to tell the X server that it holds the PRIMARY selection. No text is actually
copied until you paste it.

~~~
Dylan16807
> Or maybe you think selecting actually copies text? It only causes the
> program to tell the X server that it holds the PRIMARY selection. No text is
> actually copied until you paste it.

It's not copied to a clipboard? So if the text I selected goes away before I
paste, I can no longer paste? Great.

> I really don't see the benefit of requiring an extra step to indicate that
> you want to copy, much less from a different device. Do you often find it a
> problem that it's done automatically? Like do you often select foo, then
> select bar, and want to paste foo? That's probably the only benefit
> Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V has over PRIMARY selection.

Sometimes I just select things, and don't want them etched into my clipboard.
Sometimes I want to paste over existing text, like you said. Sometimes I want
to copy non-text things. Sometimes I'm dragging things around and don't want
that messing with my clipboard. And I don't want an errant click, or a click
intending to menu/scroll, to cause me to paste whatever happens to be on my
clipboard.

And I almost never copy and paste text without using the keyboard to do other
things too, so I don't really see why you think it's a benefit that the
copy/paste itself only needs one device.

~~~
jolmg
> and don't want that messing with my clipboard

Then I guess it's a good thing that CLIPBOARD and PRIMARY selection are
separate and not synchronized by default. If you only use Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V,
there's no need to realize PRIMARY selection even exists. Selecting does not
mess with the Ctrl-C clipboard.

> And I don't want an errant click, or a click intending to menu/scroll, to
> cause me to paste whatever happens to be on my clipboard.

Yes, I guess that's a valid concern. Personally, I prefer the feature than
having the system do nothing when I middleclick a text field.

~~~
Dylan16807
> Then I guess it's a good thing that CLIPBOARD and PRIMARY selection are
> separate and not synchronized by default.

Wasn't this a theoretical about if I did switch to using PRIMARY, why I would
be upset? Wherever I wrote "clipboard", I mean _all_ copy and paste
mechanisms. I don't want it messing with anything.

And I really don't need two or three of them. Let me have one, which is bound
to both sets of key combos and no naked mouse actions.

> Personally, I prefer the feature than having the system do nothing when I
> middleclick a text field.

Middle click scrolls for me.

~~~
jolmg
> Wasn't this a theoretical about if I did switch to using PRIMARY, why I
> would be upset?

Kind of? I like PRIMARY more and was wondering why you didn't. You gave some
good points, so I reasoned that it was nice that X gives a choice.

I didn't mean for you to imagine getting upset. I just wondered why you
preferred CLIPBOARD over PRIMARY.

> Middle click scrolls for me.

Wow, I totally forgot Windows did that! I never really found that useful back
when I used Windows, though. Maybe it would have been useful with a mouse that
didn't have a scroll-wheel. Wait... never mind, if there's no scroll-wheel
then how can one click it... I see there were some 3-button mouses without
scroll-wheels. Maybe if I had to use one of those it'd useful.

I missed this part:

> And I almost never copy and paste text without using the keyboard to do
> other things too, so I don't really see why you think it's a benefit that
> the copy/paste itself only needs one device.

It's probably just me, but I don't tend to use both devices at the same time.
When I'm mostly typing, I evade the mouse to the point that I'll even browse
the web using just the keyboard. I don't like to be constantly moving my hand
from keyboard to mouse. It's slower and breaks the flow.

When I'm mostly browsing, I'll have my head resting on my left hand or I'll be
laying down with just one arm controlling the laptop on my side and it's not
fluid to have to either bring my hand down to hit a couple of keys or be
moving my hand from the touchpad to the keyboard which I can barely see when
laying down. PRIMARY makes it very convenient to copy-paste in these
situations.

~~~
Dylan16807
But what are you copy pasting if you're not editing something, which implies
keyboard use? I never find myself doing that.

~~~
jolmg
URLs, commands, and stuff to search? I suppose I still need to hit Enter, but
it's easier to hit because it's right next to the mouse.

~~~
Dylan16807
For URLs and searches I can highlight, right click, go. Even faster than
pasting into an address bar. Copying commands is quite rare for me. But okay!

