
How to Improve MacBook Pro Performance and Thermals - jseliger
https://bsid.io/posts/2019/03/how-to-improve-macbook-pro-performance-and-thermals/
======
LeonM
Pro tip: If your MBP is overheating (constant high fan speeds) the problem is
usually a lot simpler than the thermal paste issue described in the article.
It's usually just dust buildup.

I have fixed multiple overheating Macbook pro's by simply cleaning out the
dust buildup underneath the rubber pad, between the fan housing and the
heatsink. The airflow compresses the dust into an almost solid piece (like
felt), which blocks the airflow. You can usually pull it out as one piece. All
you need is a pentalobe screwdriver, a pair of tweezers and maybe some
compressed air.

Especially if your laptop often gets into contact with fabrics (on your lap or
in bed), you should do this cleaning once a year.

~~~
j79
OMG! You were not joking about the "felt" like appearance of the dust!

My MBP seems to always have the fans on. I do occasionally run compressed air
across the vents (from the outside) but decided to open it up thanks to this
thread.

As I was cleaning, I noticed that when blowing compressed air into the vents,
one of the fans was not turning (indicating no air reaching?) I grabbed some
precision tweezers and pulled this out:
[https://i.imgur.com/aIPSRdi.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/aIPSRdi.jpg)

~~~
fafl
Nice find, but please don't blow compressed air into a fan without blocking
its rotation. It will induce currents and can cause damage to your mainboard.

~~~
jmiserez
Seems like a problem a simple diode would fix. Is this really an issue?

~~~
LeonM
Most motherboards (but not all) have basic protection for this, so it's quite
unlikely that you break your motherboard electronically that way.

That said, blowing compressed air at a fan will spin the fan much faster than
what it was designed for. So you still risk breaking the fan mechanically.
Always hold the fan when blowing compressed air at it.

------
peter_l_downs
In case the author shows up here -- I clicked through to the next post
([https://bsid.io/posts/2019/03/my-experiment-with-
honesty/](https://bsid.io/posts/2019/03/my-experiment-with-honesty/)) which
describes what I think is the author getting ripped off and having their work
stolen by another individual. If you're reading this, author: you should
publicly shame that individual, or outright sue them if you have the
resources. In particular you should contact their employer or advisers and let
them know that the paper they published is your work, not theirs.

------
userbinator
I see Apple hasn't changed at all --- these memorable pages from the official
service manual of many years ago shows what they considered the "correct"
amount of paste:

[http://attach.mobile01.com/attach/200605/mobile01-514da8fc7f...](http://attach.mobile01.com/attach/200605/mobile01-514da8fc7fc5ce50359d0bd754a7c73c.jpg)

[http://attach.mobile01.com/attach/200605/mobile01-e89d3804df...](http://attach.mobile01.com/attach/200605/mobile01-e89d3804df75a137bd9adbe040817a57.jpg)

[https://www.techpowerup.com/img/06-05-01/lol1qe.jpg](https://www.techpowerup.com/img/06-05-01/lol1qe.jpg)

~~~
szc
Are you sure those are Apple circuit boards? When and what boards used blue
solder mask?

~~~
userbinator
The last picture comes from the MacBook Pro 2006 service manual.

I believe the first two come from the MacBook (not pro) early 2006 service
manual, since the colour of the paste is white instead of the grey of later
manuals which show (only slightly) smaller amounts.

------
isugimpy
Post author called out the warranty multiple times. If you're in the USA, at
least, bear in mind that doing what's described in the post does not void the
warranty. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act explicitly requires the manufacturer
to prove that your action caused the negative impact the warranty claim is
made against, otherwise they legally can't void your warranty.

~~~
darkpuma
If Apple decides to flagrantly break that law, what options does an individual
consumer have? Is there a government agency that will fight on behalf of that
consumer, or does the consumer have to hire their own lawyer?

~~~
crooked-v
Small claims court can cover up to at least $5,000 or $10,000 in most states,
and is generally friendly to the layman or may even ban the use of trained
lawyers in some locations.

~~~
chrisseaton
> may even ban the use of trained lawyers in some locations

So who do companies send to defend themselves?

~~~
jdietrich
They often don't bother - the cost of sending a representative is frequently
greater than the cost of paying the judgement.

------
threeseed
Whatever you do please do not do this on a 2016+ MacBook Pro.

It is significantly more complex than on previous generations. There are a lot
of very tiny, very fragile cables which are very easy to break.

It gets a 1/10 rating for repairability for a reason.

~~~
thijsvandien
In fact, it’s already fragile without opening it at all...

------
ComputerGuru
It's the first thing I do with any new laptop, be it Apple, HP, Dell, or
Lenovo. It really makes a massive difference.

In my experience HP pushes the thermal boundary more than most (they generally
offer higher TDP options for custom builds than their competitors without
tailoring for it).

Some people take this to the next level and decap the processors and then use
liquid thermal compound instead of the paste. _That_ probably voids your
warranty.

~~~
masklinn
> Some people take this to the next level and decap the processors and then
> use liquid thermal compound instead of the paste.

They're probably de _lid_ ing the CPU (removing the integrated heat spreader
(IHS) to put the compound on the die directly), not de _cap_ ping it. I can't
imagine a CPU surviving the latter.

The CPU in the article is lid-less so that's not a concern.

And some CPUs have a soldered heatspreader, this allows for much better heat
transfer to the IHS but means delidding is destructive (though way less
necessary to be fair). Ryzen chips are soldered.

~~~
ComputerGuru
Sorry, I did indeed mean delid. As far as I know, the practice only became
common once manufacturers stopped soldering the heatspreaders.

------
brianpgordon
One little nitpick-

> This only works efficiently, though, if a very thin layer of thermal paste
> is applied between CPU and heatsink in such a way that minimises the chance
> of creating “air bubbles” (air has a bad thermal conductivity).

The issue here isn't really air bubbles. It's true that air has very poor
thermal conductivity, but the real issue is that the thermal paste itself has
very poor thermal conductivity compared to the solid copper heatsink. The
paste is really just supposed to fill in any microscopic pits in the surface
to get the copper in good contact. People go to great lengths to make the
surfaces as smooth as possible, going as far as to hand lap their heatsinks to
a mirror polished finish.

~~~
steve19
Seems I have been doing it wrong So I really want just a tiny amount of
thermal paste?

~~~
jdietrich
The maximum thickness of the paste layer is determined wholly by the clamping
pressure and coplanarity of the thermal interface. You can only end up with an
excess of paste between the CPU and heatsink if a) the heatsink contact plate
or CPU package aren't flat or b) the clamping mechanism isn't properly
pressing them together.

Apply too much thermal paste and it'll just squeeze out of the edges, which is
merely inconvenient as long as the paste is reasonably non-conductive. Apply
too little paste and you'll get air gaps, which have terrible thermal
conductivity. If in doubt, just spread the paste to ensure that it fully
covers the contact area.

[https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3346-thermal-paste-
applic...](https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3346-thermal-paste-application-
benchmark-too-much-thermal-paste)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2MEAnZ3swQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2MEAnZ3swQ)

~~~
dzhiurgis
TLDW: You can apply whichever you like, just don't put too little.

Even putting way too much makes 0 difference.

OP's problem was probably dust and ageing of paste. Plus interestingly there
was less power used in test AFTER so I guess that contributed most.

~~~
auiya
Extra power would've been used on spinning the fan to remove excess heat. Less
heat, less cooling needed.

~~~
dzhiurgis
Those fans use nowhere close 1-2 watt delta he observed.

------
9935c101ab17a66
Without seeing results AFTER the dust was removed and BEFORE the new thermal
paste was applied, it is impossible to attribute the resulting improvement to
the thermal paste itself. That computer is super dusty, and I suspect the
significant amount of dust removed from the fan and inbetween the fins of the
heat sink would explain a large portion of the difference.

If the author has results from after the cleaning, they would help paint a
clearer picture.

~~~
thatssosid
I guess the dust wasn't that significant to affect the results. This can be
seen in the post-Thumbnail. The image was taken immediately after opening the
backplate.

------
aiyodev
Don’t do this.

I have the same model. Had overheating problems. Took it to the Apple store.
They fixed it and refurbished it for me. Even replaced the bottom case because
of a couple of dents. It’s like a brand new machine. Charged me $0. This is
why I love Apple and will never switch.

~~~
ttsda
You love apple because they don't repair their products, they just trick you
into paying for insurance that lets them swap huge chunks of your device
instead of finding and fixing what's wrong.

~~~
aiyodev
You're wrong. I never paid for Applecare.

------
spectramax
I swapped PTIM (stock thermal paste) with Gallium alloy (Grizzly Conductonaut
or Coolaboratories Liquid Metal). The results were absolutely incredible,
better than what this article exemplifies. If you're going to open up the
chassis, might as well go to the full extent and replace thermal paste with
liquid gallium.

~~~
eikenberry
I've always wondered why hardware manufacturers don't use better thermal paste
on CPUs. When I build PCs I would always replace the stock thermal paste and
the cost was always pretty minimal and that was without the economies of scale
they'd have. If this small thing helps so much why wouldn't they use it? What
is the down side?

~~~
masklinn
> What is the down side?

The gain is low, it increases costs, and better thermal pastes are
electrically conductive so applying them industrially is a more complex
endeavour (as you absolutely can't risk leaking/spreading them to any
component). The risk/reward just isn't there for manufacturers.

~~~
philjohn
Also any surface that comes into contact with the gallium should really be
nickel plated.

Copper is OK, but Gallium does alloy slightly and you may need to reapply
after a year or so, not a problem with nickel.

------
maximilianroos
Any ideas why Apple doesn't do this themselves?

I understand that it doesn't make the system look better to a low-information
buyer. So Lenovo aren't doing it. But Apply seem motivated to add small costs
in exchange for moderate (if invisible) benefits.

~~~
m45t3r
Applying thermal paste "the correct way" needs some person to do very
delicated labor. And also is impossible to do a proper QA.

Now imagine doing this in a factory pipeline. I don't think this would scale.

~~~
jaak
I would disagree - to give an electronics example, this level of work is done
all the time at large scale on PCB manufacturers with solder mask, solder
paste, silk screens, etc.

Print shops can do this kind of work, too (precise amounts, sub-millimeter
accuracy, irregular surfaces, almost any kind of coating, etc.).

~~~
jandrese
They could, but when you open up a laptop where the manufacturer used thermal
paste and you'll more often than not find it apparently applied with a turkey
baster in a tenth of a second. Just a big old splat.

------
wheels
I did the same with my 2011 Macbook Pro in 2017, also to similar effect. As
another poster points out, the more frequent maintenance task that makes a big
difference is removing the fan and pulling the dust out.

[https://scotchi.net/2017/03/04/considering-reapplying-the-
th...](https://scotchi.net/2017/03/04/considering-reapplying-the-thermal-
paste-on-a-2011-macbook-pro/)

With that, my 2011 2.7 GHz i7 Macbook Pro continues to be completely usable
even for C++ development (also has a 1 TB SSD and 8 GB of RAM), and hopefully
will get me through to a point that Apple releases a laptop that I actually
want to buy. If they haven't released a Macbook with a better keyboard by the
time this thing dies, it'll be my last Apple laptop.

------
tedunangst
Why would changing thermal paste reduce idle power draw by 1.6 watts (more
than 50%)?

~~~
rzzzt
Just guessing, but the fans might not start running that early with better
heat dissipation.

~~~
xxs
Keeping the silicon cool reduces power consumption by about 3.5-4% per 10K.

But that should not be case for idle, so lower fan speeds (or no fan) seems
logical

~~~
bluegreyred
This is correct. Lower power consumption as a result of better TIM and thus
lower core temperatures:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poole–Frenkel_effect](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poole–Frenkel_effect)

[https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/effect-of-
temperature-o...](https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/effect-of-temperature-
on-power-consumption-with-the-i7-2600k.2200205/)

The effect is so pronounced that a watercooled computer running under full
load will typically use less power than an identical aircooled computer,
because the lowered silicon current leakage more than makes up for the power
consumption of the pump and additional fans.

------
amanzi
I would have liked to see more photos of the paste being applied. And is that
the CPU and GPU sharing the same heatsink? Or is there another one that needed
to be taken apart?

~~~
saagarjha
13” MacBook Pros have integrated Intel Iris graphics.

------
nathancahill
Awesome. Going to try this. Ardent believer in the 2015 MBP.

------
saagarjha
> only hard drives and memory can be replaced / upgraded on Macbook Pros by
> the owner without affecting the warranty

Not on _this_ MacBook Pro.

------
eaenki
Can I bring my MBP which is under warranty to the Apple Store along with the
paste and ask them to do it? I tried bringing my MBP here in EU to an Apple
Store for thermal issues and they told me everything it’s fine while it
obviously isn’t and they weren’t wiling to do anything but to keep it for
“weeks” to see if there’s any issue through a more in depth review.

~~~
lloydde
Very unlikely. If you can convince them of a repair, they’ll want to use their
own supplies.

This reminds of Canadian CBC National investigation into how instead of
identifying problems, Apple was caught misdiagnosing and pushing purchasing
new products. [https://youtu.be/_XneTBhRPYk](https://youtu.be/_XneTBhRPYk)

I don’t know if you’d have to pay, I suspect you would, but an independent
repair shop is likely going to care more about you and your nuanced issue.

------
thatssosid
Author here. A small update regarding warranty Opening the base plate doesn't
void warranty [1]
[1][https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/3zix1f/does_this_voi...](https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/3zix1f/does_this_void_a_macbook_pros_warranty/)

------
avivo
Is it possible to have someone experienced do this for you or your company in
San Francisco? Either cleaning out the dust, and/or applying new paste? (how
much would it likely cost if so?)

(also, does it apply to a MacBook Air?)

~~~
rolleiflex
Yes it does — and it’s simple enough that most people can do it, provided that
you agree to not hold them responsible if things break. Just go to any tech
repair shop and bring them your own thermal paste, which is like $5.

Or better, find a friend to do it for you for a beer. This is just basic
maintenance, so very low skill kind of thing.

~~~
avivo
The reason I ask is because I specifically am interested in those who have the
professional confidence to be held responsible if something goes wrong (even
in complex situations; e.g. a warped chassis).

~~~
rolleiflex
I don’t think anybody would ever sign that contract, however if you’d still
like to try, your best bet is Apple authorised repair shops.

------
ksec
Questions.

What other possible ways to clean up the dust without opening my machine?

Would Apple reapply the paste and clean up the dust if I had other form of
repair, assuming I am still under AppleCare+?

------
thatssosid
Author here. Happy to answer any questions.

------
sircastor
I have a mid 2014 MBP, and I wonder if my machine could benefit from this kind
of effort...

~~~
pvg
Just popping it open and cleaning out the dust and gunk will give you most of
the benefit without having to fiddle with goo and funny screwdrivers.

------
kristofferR
What's with this weird font that puts the Norwegian letter Ø instead of 0s?

~~~
saagarjha
It's Inter UI with font-feature-settings: "zero".

------
christkv
Has anyone tried thermal pads instead? What was the result compared to paste ?

~~~
JustFinishedBSG
Normal Thermal pads are TERRRIBLE and will cause the computer to overheat.

Except those new fancy graphite thermal pads ( thermal grizzly sells some ).
Those are generally worse than good paste but are pretty good and they have
the added pro of being reusable and keeping their thermal property forever
unlike paste. In a laptop that is subject to tension stress they may provide
better cooling over time.

------
minusf
undervolting the CPU (with Intel extreme tuning) can also help without opening
up the notebook. unfortunately that's Windows only. not sure what is for
macos...

~~~
bluegreyred
Older Haswell rMBPs can be undervolted with but it requires disabling SIP
which is not recommended.

Read the warnings and disclaimers and inspect the source code:

[https://github.com/sicreative/VoltageShift](https://github.com/sicreative/VoltageShift)

newer MBPs (2016+) appear to be locked down.

------
torgian
Make it thicker? XD

------
mushufasa
eh. instead of buying $400 screwdrivers and opening up the chassis to mess
with the thermal paste, i've fixed my 2015 mbp thermal issues by getting a $15
usb laptop cooling pad on amazon.

works like a charm, even with multiple editing sessions on many monitors.

edit: i misread the price of the screwdrivers. I still recommend a cooling
pad. High power draw is usually when I'm using extra monitors at a desk
anyways.

~~~
Shoop
$400 screwdrivers? The screwdrivers pictured were 349 rupees ~ $5.

~~~
_bxg1
I had to do a double-take when the he said the paste cost "740". I don't know
much about thermal paste so I could've believed it was dollars if it was
really something special. But then I noticed the "Rs." beneath the image.

