
My loss - grep
http://sivers.org/loss
======
fleitz
Wow. That reminds me of last year.

My ex made up phony charges to the police so she could keep more of my money
(which the crown had to drop).

After work found out they threatened to fire me to negotiate themselves a
better position.

Lost most of what I had to lawyers fees, lost the rest of it to the market.

What I did in response:

Lost 60 pounds

Met a great, funny, vibrant, intelligent, much thinner and younger woman

Told them I quit and ended up negotiating a better position

Blew what little I had left on a trip to Burning Man, met some great friends
and gained a lot of perspective.

Grew my side biz into the point where it might survive the next 6 month, and
lined up financing.

The future:

Quit my job last month

Taking the side biz full time

Life is indeed better on the other side. The funny thing about life is that to
have the freedom to do anything you need to first lose everything. Courts,
jails, and lawyers may be able to take your money, but they can't take your
friends. Likewise they can confine your body, but they can't confine your
mind. Going through all that gave me incredible perspective. I've always been
a very caring and charitable person and it paid off in spades going through
that whole ordeal. I never realized what an incredible social network I had
developed through my character until I had to call on it. I left the ex with
literally the shirt on my back and within a week had a fully furnished, albiet
modestly, apartment and more importantly friends to fill it with cheer and
laughter (to be honest a few tears as well, but mostly laughter and cheer).

~~~
petercooper
_Met a great, funny, vibrant, intelligent, much thinner and younger woman_

Because being "much thinner and younger" is what we should celebrate about our
new partners.

~~~
cageface
_Because being "much thinner and younger" is what we should celebrate about
our new partners._

The Western notion of romantic love papers over a lot of the primate
realities. His ex probably thought she'd be trading him in for somebody more
alpha so I don't begrudge him his success in an ironic turnabout.

What people think _should_ be true about relationships tends to get in the way
of what _is_ true about relationships.

~~~
sprout
The Western notion of "thinner and younger" also papers over a lot of the
primate realities. I know quite a few women who when I first met were
completely unremarkable if not downright unattractive, who over time became as
attractive as any other.

And being more conventionally attractive would not increase my eventual
attraction to them, just as the vast majority of conventionally attractive
women are not so at all after a very short time.

------
coffeemug
It's awesome on the other side, with a caveat. You will get rejected. Again,
and again, and again. Things will go wrong. Your dreams will get shattered.
The moment you demonstrate signs of success, suddenly people will start
knocking on your door. And when things change, you'll get rejected again.
People will leave, mutiny, and flip out. The worst and the best of human
nature will come out in plain sight.

If you're unprepared for this, a sliver of ice will form in your heart and
will grow larger and larger, until there is nothing left. At the end, you will
end up where you were before, with all your dreams shattered and endless
cynicism about life and your fellow man in your heart. If you choose to say
yes where you said no, and no where you said yes, you _must_ learn to love
people for their best _and_ worst qualities, always and unconditionally, lest
your adventure ends in a disaster.

------
cageface
Side note - anybody thinking about getting married should look into the
financial implications of getting divorced. It shouldn't stop you, but you
should at least understand you're putting at least half of everything you own
on the table and potentially more. I think you don't completely understand
marriage unless you've been divorced.

It may just be confirmation bias but I've been thinking about heading off in a
much less conventional direction myself so articles like this are welcome.

~~~
mhb
Why do people get married? It's a poorly defined contract with ill-defined
consequences into which they enter apparently because it's what everyone else
does to signal their feelings. Similar to giving a diamond engagement ring or
using off-the-shelf business forms.

~~~
gord
I actually wonder whether marriage should have a time limit specified. Its a
better fit to reality : people living longer, large proportion divorcing after
5 years, sequential marriages to different people.

"I love you darling, will you spend the next 12 years with me to raise a child
together?".

This is not purely cynical... I think its so cool when two people who have
been married for 15 years decide to celebrate with second marriage ceremony to
launch them into the next 15.

The time commitment should set the financial arrangements when you divorce -
Ending a life long marriage might split 50/50 whereas ending a 10yr marriage
might confer a 15% mix of wealth shared.

~~~
gnaritas
> I actually wonder whether marriage should have a time limit specified.

Some places do, down to a matter of hours. It's a slick way around
prostitution laws and moral qualms.

~~~
elai
A lot of people take that kind of 'marriage' as one big stinking ball of
hypocrisy and generally don't like it.

~~~
gnaritas
A lot of people don't like a lot of things, so what? It still happens. When
the laws of a country are based on religion and pre-marital sex is not
allowed, solutions like this are bound to happen; it is inevitable.

------
sivers
The HN take-away:

Behind what looks like a success could actually be a failure. (And probably
vice-versa.)

~~~
chime
Absolutely true, especially the vice-versa part. Everyone's definition of
success is different. Others may think you are a failure based on this post,
while thinking you were a success based on almost every other post. Their
perception of your success or failure should not change whether you feel
successful or not. The only thing that matters is whether you yourself feel
successful or not. If not (having read your blog for a while), I'm certain
you're on the way to change things around.

And yes, big changes are awesome. Took me almost a year to change my
work/school situation but now I'm finally happy about how things are going to
be.

~~~
hoprocker
The "vice-versa" part is an important life lesson. Walk to a freeway onramp w/
a rucksack on your back and stick out your thumb, you'll probably meet some
fascinating people. Quit what seems like a safe job, travel a bit, land in a
different city, and see what you can do there - at the worst, you'll find
something differently stimulating. The fear of change is never based on
certainty, just on an inverse relationship with one's own flexibility. And I'd
wager that, generally speaking, the more flexible, the better.

------
todayiamme
I am at rock bottom right now, and as I struggle to get up. I've searched for
resources to help me figure out the best way out. I have made plans. Created
structures for myself. Kicked myself. A lot.

However, I've fallen flat on my face again and again due to a simple reason. I
_don't_ have the resources to execute any kind of measures to get myself out
of this mess. I can't concentrate without getting suicidal imagery in my head
and spiraling into a very disturbing cycle. I really don't have any pre-
requisite life experience to rely on. The worst thing is that time is running
out for me to apply to college.

On the other hand, this is might be more of a blessing. I have literally
started my life with a blank slate, and now I can choose the foundation for my
future in a way that few can. If only I knew how.

~~~
keeptrying
* Theres no time frame to "go to college". Or for that matter to "be successful", "get married" or any such thing. Each to his own.

* Dont be so hard on yourself. This kicks into motion a negative spiral. You need to stop this now. Immediately. Catch your negative thoughts. They are your real problem. Imagine how great a day would be without these thoughts? Meditation will really help in controlling negative thoughts.

* Be thankful. You live in a great country. Your not walking 10 miles a day for getting drinking water. Your not hiding in the desert trying to avoid enslavement by warlords and your not in prison. Yay! Seriously, by being thankful, you'll feel happier and more grounded and thats a good way to start each day.

* Usually the things that trip you up will seem so stupid. And thats just the nature of the game. You might not get a job because you forgot to spell check your resume. Shit happens. Different people have different problems. Realize that the only thing that matters is to fix that one problem and not: * What others would think if they knew you had a problem. (really is of no consequence) * The idea that you have problems and others dont (everyone does) * The idea that maybe at your age you shouldnt be having this problem (this is pure society induced crap)

Come up with a way to fix that particular problem and move on. If it happens
again, then you know you need a better method. But ALWAYS move on. Dont get
stagnated by the past.

~~~
todayiamme
Thanks a lot for the comment.

The problem is that I live in India, and down here there _is_ a time frame to
go to college. I can only give the entrance exam in order to prove to those
lofty institutions that I am "worthy enough" to walk through those doors.

I hate this system, because everything falls down to a 6 hour exam which
supposedly determines my entire "career". If possible I will apply to MIT et
al, but I don't have any hopes for them. I know that college doesn't matter.
At the same time I also know that it is a stamp that guarantees some basic
standard of living, especially when people are free to discriminate against
you. So, in all probability I won't go to college right now, but I will secure
admission to some big name college so that I have something to fall back to.

I actually don't want to go to college in India as it won't exactly be a happy
experience for me. Lets just say that I am unacceptable to their "Indian
sensibilities".

At the same time you're right I have a lot to be thankful for. At least I am
not on the street right now.

You're absolutely right about everything else, but I have a question. How do
you control those thoughts when you are not meditating? They overwhelm me and
I just sink into them. What makes it worse is that it reminds me how little
control I have over myself. So how do you do it?

One of the biggest problems is that I live in an extremely negative
environment, and I realize the need to break free. At the same time I exist
within that paradigm and I seek security within it, which just increases the
problems.

On the other end you have given me the gem I need to survive. Moving on. That
is perhaps the only way it can ever work out.

Once again thank you.

~~~
keeptrying
Again there is no time frame. Its something that is society induces but yes
its very hard to see from where you are right now.

Sridhar Vembu who runs Zoho.com (chennai I think) doesnt hire graduate
students. He hires people who havent got a degree. Try contacting him if you
dont get into an engineering school.

College IS important but its not sooo important that if you dont get into a
good one that your life will be ruined. I'm now working with people who went
much worse colleges than me. Even one guy who spent 3 years finishing 9
credits :). Ie he never finished college.

Even if you go to a bad college, still go. It will give you a lot of free time
and the oppurtunity to study. It does help. But if you dont get into a college
at all, then there are many other avenues open to you from Zoho to starting
something on your own to logging onto oDesk.com and start working on small
projects.

Yes I'm from India :) but now live in New York city.

How to control negative thoughts: 1\. Do something about your situation
instead of thinking about your situation. This will take time to learn. In
India we learn to analyze, read and think about stuff. But in reality that
takes a back seat to actually "doing". Doing is much more important than
reading.

When you find yourself thinking about your problems instead of doing something
to make it better then you need to mentally force yourself out of it and start
doing something. Anything that takes you even an inch towards your goal.

Learn C, C++. Contribute to open source software (really good way to get a
great job later on). Get your body into shape (www.stronglifts.com - checkout
the forums for other indians). Sign up to teach someone english in your city.

2\. You need to help someone else at least once a day. Something unselfish. It
can be leading a blind person across a street or calling up a relative you
havent talked to in a while and saying hi. Something that will take 10 minutes
but will really help someone else's condition. This will also force you to
focus on others which will get rid of a lot of negativity.

If you do both of the above then you'll start changing. Change takes 2 years
so dont think it will happen overnight. However if you dont start changing
today, you'll never change.

Best of luck man. Drop me an email at railsnoob at yahoo dot com, if you have
more questions.

Keep fighting.

------
daeken
I'm really hoping this happens for me. Not the bad part, of course; I'm hoping
I've seen the worst of that. My startup is about to launch its flagship
product on Tuesday after a year and a half of work, but we (myself and one of
my cofounders that I live with) are currently packing up to go live with our
respective parents, as the money's simply gone. It's been the most stressful 6
months of my life, as we've seen the slide into foreclosure and haven't been
able to do anything about it, and it's all happening at the most important
point of our company's life. I'm looking for the uptick from this, and I'll do
what it takes to make it happen.

~~~
gruseom
Best of luck with it! Many here will be rooting for you.

Was mich nicht umbringt macht mich stärker.

~~~
daeken
Thanks very much -- honestly, if it wasn't for the support of the startup
community (even though I'm not one of the cool kids doing web apps ;) ),
there's no way in hell I could've made it through thus far. This has been one
of the most incredible and incredibly stressful and trying experiences of my
life, but it's all worth it, even if it doesn't pan out. If nothing else, I
won't look back and wonder "what if".

------
jacquesm
Hey Derek,

That was pretty brave of you to write that and publish it for all the world to
see.

I don't doubt that this will only lead you to greater success, you're more
free now to achieve that than you have been in more than a decade.

Maybe the grass on the other side really is greener :)

best of luck!

    
    
      Jacques

------
honopu
you are one hell of a man to post this. Take care. edit: directed at sivers

------
mikecane
Here is bad: Auschwitz, Treblinka, Buchenwald. Some survived. Never
underestimate your ability to bounce back. When you can't summon strength,
summon spite.

------
qq66
I like the linked "horses" story a lot.

"We'll see."

------
dublinclontarf
Makes me feel a hell of a lot better about the few thousand I've lost over the
last few years from cockups. Good man.

------
davidmurphy
Yikes.

I've had some absolutely insane things happen to me in the past 12 months,
too. Just one horrid thing after another.

Derek, good for you for getting through all this, and thanks for that
encouraging last line--that things will be better on the other side.

When you're going through hell, keep going!

------
billswift
Shit happens, and good stuff, too; you just have to deal with whatever comes.
One disagreement though - never, ever say, or even think, "Things can't get
worse". There is always something worse that can happen.

------
thomasfl
I also lost a wife, a job and the house in one year. You kinda define yourself
as where you work, who you're married with and where you're living. Beeing
forced to change everything in one year is... interesting.

------
c00p3r
I think such a "general" posts should be considered an off topic here. Two
reasons. Well-reading people, which I assume a majority here, might find that
kind of postings on the top page a little bit annoying. Second - there are a
lot of such stories in each other's life. It is not a reason to expose them on
the HN.

------
megafotze
what a fucking whiner

------
Alistra
Nobody cares for your stupidity. Please stop making reddit out of HN.

~~~
philk
Well I found it interesting. One of the scary things about trying to do
something great is the fear that you'll fail and everything will go to hell.
So it's quite nice to read someone who's had a terrible year say that they got
through it okay.

Also, describing it as "stupidity" seems a bit harsh. Everyone will make
mistakes from time to time. I'd say Derek is a lot less stupid than the kind
of person who didn't do anything and hence didn't have a company, savings or
wife to lose.

------
chloraphil
why does google chrome barf on his site? (windows vista)

~~~
sivers
Sorry - please email me specifics? derek@sivers.org Thanks!

~~~
tomjen3
Must be pretty specific - I run chrome on windows and it seemed fine (though I
have no idea what it is supposed to look like, but there isn't anything wrong
with it that I could see).

