
Nintendo Makes It Clear That Piracy Is Only Way to Preserve Video Game History - ingve
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/wjm5kw/nintendo-makes-it-clear-that-piracy-is-the-only-way-to-preserve-video-game-history
======
cableshaft
I basically already had this happen on my end years ago. I worked as a
designer/producer on two games developed and published to WiiWare: Evasive
Space and NEVES Plus.

But our publishing company went under, and Nintendo took the games down
several years ago. I still have them on my hard drive on my Wii, and I hunted
down copies of the files so I could keep them in my collection, but there's no
way for anyone else to get those games legally anymore. And they were pretty
decent games, too (Evasive Space was probably too hard in retrospect, but
still fun. NEVES was a solid puzzle game with lots of modes and a Patapon-ish
character art).

It sucks. I wish I could tell friends and family to check the games out, but
about the only thing I can do now is link to Youtube videos.

If I had the rights, plenty of cash, and the licenses, I would have ported
these for other platforms, but instead they're just trapped in time (except
for emulators), and I'm sure already pretty much forgotten. but at least
there's emulators.

NEVES Plus Trailer:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQb19p09Y7Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQb19p09Y7Q)
Evasive Space Trailer:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhpKxYtuuug](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhpKxYtuuug)

There's other games I worked on for companies that are no longer easy to get
either, these are just the two that were on the Wii.

~~~
cr0sh
About the only thing you can do is keep a copy of them, keep the copies
updated and backed up, then wait 20-30 years, and assuming anyone is still
using the hardware, let them out then.

Likely, any principals or others with any interest about the game probably
won't remember or won't care - heck, they might even be happy.

It has happened with a lot of 8-bit stuff from the 80s (mostly home computer
software); with the exception of Nintendo of course. The Disney of games I
guess.

Ultimately, you have to wait and hope such companies pass away - though as we
both know, Nintendo is a very old company, so that might not be an option.

At that point, I'd just wrap up your archive, then figure out a way to put it
on the internet with plausible deniability and/or anonymity (it can be done).

~~~
cableshaft
I don't have the code to these, at least. I wish I did. I worked for the
publishing company, and we never got the actual code, just the builds. I think
I still have a few older builds around somewhere, though.

I still have a copy of the code for a game for another defunct startup, and
every once in awhile I get the urge to try to contact someone and see if they
don't mind me porting it (I don't see how they could, they barely cared about
the game even back then). I have tons of other projects that are higher
priority, though. Still pains me that that one isn't still available for
people to play, though.

Honestly, I wish all of these things that I put so much of my life could still
be playable. Basically my entire professional career in the game industry is a
black hole, whereas the games I made and released on my own 6 years previous
to that are still playable online, and I'm currently working porting and
updating a game I made and released on the Xbox 360. Trying to get that out in
time for its 10th year anniversary next year.

Part of the reason why I started getting into board game design is because
once they're made, they're out there, and people can play them, they can't be
taken down by a company or become obsolete due to dying platforms, and if I
ever want to show them to new people, I can just bring them to a party. And I
can always put a print and play copy up that people can mess about with.

~~~
toomuchtodo
You might consider getting in touch with Jason Scott at the Internet Archive
(@textfiles both here and on Twitter), and shipping him a hard drive to put
the files you mention into cold storage (where they’re archived, but not
accessible).

The Internet Archive has an emulator to enable the playback of orphaned video
games in browser.

~~~
cableshaft
That's good to know. I actually have some other things that are possibly rare
and/or unique that he might be interested in too, that I wasn't sure what to
do with, but didn't want them to just sit in my basement until they stop
working. They're on flash cards for consoles though, not hard drives.

~~~
toomuchtodo
I have no doubt Jason can facilitate the extraction from whatever media you
have.

------
beezischillin
Nintendo is one of the worst game companies when it comes to dealing with
online / their fans. The YouTube / Twitch streaming controversy was just
ridiculous... They will also aggressively chase down people who run sites that
preserve old games that aren't even produced anymore even if they don't intend
to allow people any access to them in the future.

As far as they're concerned people shouldn't be allowed access to these
historic works, no matter the circumstances.

It's pretty sad behavior from a company beloved by so many.

By the way, I also find it really interesting that video games are software, a
special kind of software that we assign a very particular type of value to
that's not really monetary. We want to keep them alive and enjoy them so long
after their time has passed. It's so much different than, say, a copy of
Photoshop 2.11 or Winamp 3.

~~~
hnaccy
>By the way, I also find it really interesting that video games are software,
a special kind of software that we assign a very particular type of value to
that's not really monetary. We want to keep them alive and enjoy them so long
after their time has passed. It's so much different than, say, a copy of
Photoshop 2.11 or Winamp 3.

Creative works are valued longer because new creative works don't function as
replacements. There's only one Canterbury Tales or Super Mario World.

An old photoshop copy is more like an old almanac, it is a tool.

~~~
cr0sh
> An old photoshop copy is more like an old almanac, it is a tool.

Sometimes, though, the old tool is better than a new one.

For instance, if I have a choice between a Craftsman wrench from say, 1970, vs
a brand new one from today - guess which one I'm going to choose?

Software can be like this as well; indeed, there are some DOS apps out there
for which there isn't a good replacement available (though they can be niche -
which is probably why).

~~~
StellarTabi
There's a lot of software that used 20MB at the most in the XP days, but
doesn't run on windows 10 or is missing some random new 2010+ era feature and
just needs a patch, but now the only modern version of this software is a
minimum-viable-product SaaS monthly subscription.

------
mrspeaker
This is why I'm not a fan of Steam-type stores... they'll eventually be gone,
and the games I've paid for won't be accessible.

Occasionally I love going back through my old CD-Rs (copied to hard drive, of
course), finding old troves of files, projects, and games. That's why I always
get the latest Factorio as direct download - I know someday in 20 years time
I'll be hankering to bust that out again!

~~~
PostOnce
Not only that, but Steam games get fucked with after release, so you can't
even necessarily get the original game if Steam is still operating.

[https://www.pcgamer.com/au/grand-theft-auto-san-andreas-
stea...](https://www.pcgamer.com/au/grand-theft-auto-san-andreas-steam-update-
removes-songs-resolution-options/)

(songs removed from San Andreas due to time-limited music licenses, apparently
at some point the renderer was replaced with the one used for iOS)

I think you can't downgrade to an old version of Stranger's Wrath either, but
I could be wrong there. [https://www.destructoid.com/oddworld-stranger-s-
wrath-finall...](https://www.destructoid.com/oddworld-stranger-s-wrath-
finally-goes-hd-on-steam-235041.phtml)

Then there are games like Diablo III where you need to be online to play
single player, and therefore need a current patch, which means they can nerf
or fuck with in any way they want a game you already liked and may no longer
like after the changes.

Having to follow patches sucks, and piracy is often the only way to avoid it.

~~~
profmonocle
WoW is a pretty good example of this too. Patches and expansions changed so
much over the years that many players feel like it isn’t the same game
anymore. Blizzard fought against private servers running the classic game for
years, until the pay finally decided to make official classic servers. (But if
your favorite iteration of the game was something between classic and current,
you’re still out of luck.)

~~~
bausshf
Sounds like RuneScape too.

They even killed the official classic version not too long ago.

------
mywittyname
Copyright law needs to be amended to remove copyrights from media which is no
longer readily available. If a company stops distributing their copyrighted
materials, then it is safe to assume that it is no longer economically viable
to do so, thus, they aren't losing money if it is put into public domain.

~~~
gnud
I don't disagree, but I don't think this would not work for all copyright. It
might work for "personal use" reproduction - books, video games.

I don't think it would work for the 'public performance' part of copyright -
composers, playwrights, movie directors.

For example, a lot of contemporary music is not published at all. If you get a
score from the composer, you still have to pay royalties when you perform the
music publicly.

~~~
socceroos
> I don't disagree, but I don't think this would not work for all copyright.

My head is spinning...

------
taurath
This seems disingenuous when talking about offline games stored on an SD card
- when you buy a CD and the CD is destroyed or the store that you bought the
CD closes you don’t have an expectation that you will always get new copies of
that CD.

With games that are online only, one also expects that wen the service is shut
off you won’t have access. This is pretty accepted (but would be nice if there
were some way to preserve the server code)

But games that are inherently offline and perform online checks are the worst.
If I get something on steam that checks in with steam every 10 minutes, then
steam goes away, then I’m pretty miffed.

~~~
eloisant
The thing is that with a CD, you can easily make backups.

With games with DRM stored on SD, who knows? If you copy the files then you'll
probably be able to play it on the console... Provided it's the one you bought
it on? I wouldn't even bet on it.

------
dbg31415
> As it stands, even after the store officially closes, Wii users will be able
> download any past titles they’ve purchased and downloaded from the Wii Shop
> Channel, provided they can fit them on either the Wii’s internal storage or
> an additional SD card. However, Nintendo said that in a yet unknown point in
> the future, the company will close all services relating to the Wii Shop
> Channel, "including the ability to redownload WiiWare and Virtual Console
> games, as well as the Wii System Transfer Tool, which transfers data from
> Wii to the Wii U system."

Seems understandable. At some point you'll hit end of life with software and
support will end. I'm sure they'll give plenty of notice, and I'd imagine it's
5-10 years out. I'm sure if you called support and told them that your NES
cartridges didn't work any more they'd probably just tell you to blow on it.

* Myth debunked: Blowing in your Nintendo games never actually fixed anything – GeekWire || [https://www.geekwire.com/2014/blow-nintendo-games/](https://www.geekwire.com/2014/blow-nintendo-games/)

~~~
bitwize
Nintendo used to sell Official Nintendo Cleaning Kits specifically in response
to blowing on cartridge card edges, to prevent people from damaging their NES
carts due to moisture oxidation.

All but the most severely dusty NES carts should work just as well as a clean
cart. NES carts failed mainly because of a fault in the NES front loader
mechanism.

Me, I had a TI-99/4A before owning a NES. Random hangs and glitches were
normal to me. (The TI-99/4A was prone to overheating.)

~~~
jandrese
That and Nintendo installed an incredibly touchy DRM chip that demanded a
cleaner signal than was strictly necessary for the game to work.

~~~
rincebrain
My favorite thing about the 10NES is how the easiest way to get a Famicom->NES
adapter is to open one of the first wave of NES carts, because those were made
on Famicom boards and then have an interposer with the 10NES chip on it. [1]

Though in digging up a source for this, I discovered my new favorite thing,
which is that Tengen (infamously) made a (mostly) cleanroom duplicate of the
10NES and got sued over it, and when a company recently wanted to make NES
cartridges, they reverse engineered Tengen's chip in turn. [2]

[1] -
[https://www.reddit.com/r/gamecollecting/comments/frpyh/you_m...](https://www.reddit.com/r/gamecollecting/comments/frpyh/you_may_already_have_an_official_famicomtones/)

[2] -
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIC_(Nintendo)#Nintendo_Entert...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIC_\(Nintendo\)#Nintendo_Entertainment_System)

------
mindslight
The real question is when are people going to get the message?!

The incentives of commercial online publishers were clear from their very
beginning. The pattern of retroactively pulling content began quite some time
ago.

I'm sympathetic if someone really doesn't know any better, succumbs to all
that advertising pushing them towards $proprietary_service and thinks thats
the cool path, only to get ripped off later on.

But anyone familiar with the idea of _personal computing_ has no excuse! Stop
investing your mindshare into this proprietary app-poverty. It's mildly easier
in the beginning, but you're paying incrementally every time the business
invents a new way to fuck.

Meanwhile if you do a slight bit of self-actualization to adopt a _personal
computing based_ setup, it's not just going to shift out from under you.
_Your_ ROM collection won't just disappear out of the blue one day, nor will
your emulator stop working because eg the developer went out of business or
insists on pushing a new one with "improved" advertising/surveillance/control
and it's incompatible with your usage.

------
ortusdux
News of the shutdown made me think of this guy:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/a97diy/my_79yo_fath...](https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/a97diy/my_79yo_father_exercises_with_wii_fit_almost/)

------
silveira
We say buying digital games but in reality we are renting digital games. Also,
a lot of times paying the price of physical games for these rentals.

~~~
jandrese
In particular, this is a way for companies to skirt the law, specifically the
Doctrine of First Sale. By never letting consumers actually purchase the
product they aren't afforded many of the legal protections that were hard
fought for on physical goods.

------
AdmiralAsshat
What blows in particular is that some of those games only found their way
stateside via the Wii store. _Sin & Punishment_ comes to mind. You can find
ROMs of the original Japanese N64 version online, but I doubt anyone has ROMs
of the US/PAL versions for the Wii that had localized menus (the dialogue was
already in English).

~~~
rincebrain
Given that the Wii Virtual Console games were a bundled emulator and ROM, and
you could swap the latter out, I imagine the content is indeed available.

~~~
danbolt
GBATemp users have reported that the game gets localized at runtime[1], rather
than a a modified ROM. Kind of ingenuous on Nintendo Redmond's part[2].

One would likely have to use Dolphin to emulate the Wii emulating the game.[3]

[1] [https://gbatemp.net/threads/sin-and-](https://gbatemp.net/threads/sin-
and-) punishment.183066/

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_Software_Technology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_Software_Technology)

[3] [https://wiki.dolphin-
emu.org/index.php?title=Sin_%26_Punishm...](https://wiki.dolphin-
emu.org/index.php?title=Sin_%26_Punishment)

~~~
rincebrain
Lord, Nintendo, _why_?

That's like killing a fly with a suitcase nuke.

~~~
danbolt
I can't really speak for the main reason why, but my guess is that it gave
Nintendo a level of flexibility with localizing the game without having to set
up a Nintendo 64 development environment.

------
petemc_
I bought a good number of games from xbox store but got out of the habit and
didn't log in for a few years. Went through the pretty painful process of
logging in to my account again recently on a new console, no sign of any
purchases and if I tried to download them from store I was prompted to pay for
them.

------
cwkoss
Someone should file a class action lawsuit to sue for refunds on all funds
Nintendo received for product they are now rendering worthless.

------
zokier
I would have thought it obvious that if need an online service to access
something, then you are eventually going lose access to that something when
the service inevitably closes down.

Also _in the context of ROMs_ (and other pre-internet games) I do contest the
general thesis that piracy is the only road for preservation. You don't need
to distribute ROMs to the public to preserve them. Put them in a museum if you
want and they could be preserved perfectly fine without needing to resort to
piratism.

