

Ask HN: Changing languages, professionally - bluesnowmonkey

I've been coding since the mid 90s and delved seriously into 10+ languages, but almost all my professional experience is with PHP.  It wasn't the plan, it just sort of happened.  On the other hand, I've spent most of the past year working exclusively with Node.js, both on open-source projects and on a closed-source venture that never took flight.  I had hoped that even if it failed, it would springboard me to a career using something besides PHP.<p><i>It didn't work.</i><p>Lately I've been going after Node.js work and consistently getting denied because my resume still just says PHP.  People skim, they don't really read the cover letters or click through to the Github profile full of Node.js projects.  Which makes sense.  I understand the spam that job ads attract.<p>How do I get past this chicken-and-egg problem?  Do other developers talk about open source projects directly on their resumes, right alongside paid work?  And how do you sell experience gained on a closed source project with barely a name and no associated company, website, or other marketing?  I've got this sinking feeling that I'll have to go back, launch the startup and then tank it just so that I have something easier to reference.
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robinwarren
As a person who's been doing some hiring recently
(<http://www.covalentsoftware.com/company/careers.php> if anyone's interested
in Java work in Taunton ;))...

I'd suggest definitely putting OS projects on your cv, if they're more
relevant skills wise personally I'd be happy to see them ahead of your career
history, probably with a quick explanation as to why above them.

What sort of jobs are you going for? I do occasionally get cvs from people
with a lot of experience in other languages, and some in Java which I'm hiring
for. The main problem is they're being put forward for positions based on past
experience in other languages. Whilst a lot of what developers do is
transferrable I have to measure them against other applicants with more
relevant experience so often they're too expensive vs the competition. If they
are applying for a more junior role to balance this out there's then a risk to
me they won't be happy with the salary I can offer them and/or will return to
their previous work.

Given the above I'd suggest tacking the risk by explaining you're trying to
move your career into a new language hence applying for the role. This may
also feed the ego of whoever you're applying to that they're working in a
desirable language. If you are willing to take a slight step down based on
moving away from an area of expertise you can then differentiate yourself
against other applicants based on your broader experience.

HTH

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bartonfink
Your third paragraph sums up the reason for the problem the original post
described. Someone has software engineering experience in Foo Language, but
wants to get a chance to work professionally with Blah Language for whatever
reason. Obviously, his years of Foo programming aren't completely
transferrable, and you point out that he's not going to compete for a role
with someone who's been a Blah programmer all along. However, if he recognizes
his lack of experience with Blah and applies for a junior or even entry-level
position, you say that there's a risk he won't be happy with the salary and
will skip town.

Your solution hinges on people accepting OS, hobby, academic or otherwise
"extracurricular" experience as meaningful. I have not found that to be the
case, and the other post someone alluded to described exactly that. I'm not
accusing you of causing this problem, but you've highlighted it so perfectly
that I think it warrants a little bit of exploration.

~~~
nathanb
I'm going to make a controversial blanket statement and say that any company
which doesn't consider extracurricular experience to be meaningful is probably
not a company you want to work for. The reason being that side projects, open
source experience, etc. are all indicators of passion. A company which doesn't
appreciate that experience is a company which either doesn't understand or
doesn't value passion in its employees.

~~~
robinwarren
I agree completely and we've made hires based more on the strength of peoples
passion for programming than a specific skill set. This works excellently I
think for junior or mid level positions beyond that though I think you really
are looking for specific expertise as opposed to raw potential.

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timrobinson
I responded to a similar question yesterday:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2285213>

Just because you have some technical skill, doesn't mean you have to put it
prominently on your resume. If you don't want to do PHP jobs, take PHP off
your resume.

Can I program COM/NAnt scripts/batch files? Yes. Do I want to get paid to do
it all day? No. Do they appear on my resume? No.

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RBerenguel
I'd add open source project along jobs. I.e. if you "worked on open source
project A from april 2009 to june 2010", put this along "worked for company A
from march to august 2010". Add then a link to the relevant repository and let
the interviewer decide if it is relevant or not.

~~~
metachris
or even like this: "shipped code on [platform] to [n] users/companies/clients
for company A from march to august 2010"

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A1kmm
Why not put Free / Open Source on your resume so they can't avoid seeing it?
Experience is experience.

A company name, length of time, and languages / platforms used is really all
you need to say if there is nothing better to put in the space; I expect
references would be helpful for most clients in that case, however.

