
You'll Get a Cow if You Work at This Company - jrosenblatt
http://thenextweb.com/shareables/2011/12/01/work-at-this-company-and-youll-get-a-cow-a-fixie-and-an-unlimited-supply-of-your-favorite-beer/
======
hello_moto
I'm a little bit confused with this "trend":

[http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57324275-93/work-with-
the-c...](http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57324275-93/work-with-the-cool-
kids-culture-is-a-weapon-in-2011s-hiring-battle/)

Look at the design of the site and the buttons and the "weird" offers:

<http://jobs.scopely.com/>

<http://jobs.usehipster.com/>

<http://jobs.amicushq.com/>

Is this produced by a new web service that creates a cool job advertisement?

~~~
gergles
> Scopely isn't looking for people that don't get the joke.

No, I get the joke. I just don't think it's funny. There's a big difference,
and I think the startups that are using this gimmick need to think really hard
about who exactly they are targeting with these things, because it sure does
seem to me to be people who value style over substance.

------
rguzman
this type of job-listing is ridiculous. not because it is juvenile or the sort
of a thing that may be indicative of a bubble, but rather, because it is
condescending.

in the job market, there are two things i'd like to trade for my skills and
time: dollars and equity. i also appreciate and put value on a company having
a nice office to work at and that they have a laid-back culture, but they can
just say that. i don't need them to buy me my beer or coffee to "signal" that
they are hip, i'd rather have the cash and pick my beer when i want to get
drunk. i also don't need them to "signal" that they are green by buying me a
bike -- i'd rather have them tell me that they care about that and what things
do they do as a company to be green.

in general, all these things companies do to "signal" culture strike me as
stupid. just say what you value and have your important actions reflect it.

~~~
sethbannon
Some startups prefer developers who are looking for more than just dollars and
equity. While important, those are certainly not the only things that motivate
us. We're in this because we want to reshape civil society through innovation,
and because we're having the time of our lives doing so. Better to have
teammates with similar motivations, and not those driven simply by the bottom
line.

~~~
synnik
The fact that you keep jumping in and defending yourself after every negative
comment makes you look like you are seriously lacking confidence.

Nobody is questioning that you believe in what you do and are doing well at
it, and enjoying your work. What we are questioning is your methods.

Let me put it into perspective (my perspective):

If you want to donate $2000 dollars to heifer.org for each employee, just do
it. Don't put it in my name. I have my own charities, and would prefer to make
my own choice.

Don't buy me a bike. I am disabled and that perk just slaps me in the face
with it.

Don't buy me beer. I do not drink, and find the implication that drinking is
required for your culture to be a little creepy.

Don't say that I am getting $2000 for R&D. That is pocket change for true R&D,
and makes me worry that not only do you not handle budgets well, but that the
companies future innovation funding could get messed up in HR negotiations.

The bottom line is that most of your perks scare me. Not because there is
anything wrong with offering them, but because it shows a severe lack of
empathy for the diversity of people in this world.

------
Timothee
Maybe I'm just getting old and uptight but I find things like "unlimited
amount of beer" to be a real turn-off. It has a feel of immaturity. "Yeah,
let's get drunk! Woohoo!" Really?

It's not the first job ad where I see something along these lines. Sure it
tells me that the culture is probably laid-back, but depending on how it's
phrased, it can be sound very juvenile.

~~~
jrockway
I like a beer to relax with coworkers after most of the workday is over. If I
have one every day, that's 260 beers a year. Let's say it's good beer and we
are buying in bulk, so each bottle costs $2. That's $520 a year for just one
person. On a 10-person team where everyone has a couple beers each night,
you'd be spending $10,400 on beer, which is a benefit worth mentioning.

You're not going to be drunk from two beers, either, so if you drink at work
instead of going to a bar, a little more work has the opportunity to be done.
All in all, a nice benefit for everyone.

If you don't drink alcohol, I'm sure they'll buy you an unlimited amount of
Perrier or energy drinks or whatever else you want.

~~~
Timothee
Honestly, I don't mind or care about people drinking at work. _I_ probably
wouldn't mostly because beer makes me very sleepy.

But it's really a matter of phrasing.

"We typically have a couple of beers together at the end of the day" sounds
much better than "we'll provide you with an unlimited amount of beer" and
likely gives the intended image of the company culture. The former tells me
that people like to relax together, the latter focuses on the beer _you_ will
have access to and incidentally on the dollar amount of that beer, not the
social aspect of it.

~~~
jonnathanson
Perhaps, but then, "we typically have a couple of beers together at the end of
the day" doesn't sound as novel or noteworthy as "we'll provide you with an
unlimited amount of beer."

For better, or for worse, the "unlimited amount of beer" line is catchy. It's
memorable. And it sends a very strong signal of the company's culture. That
cultural signal will turn off quite a few would-be applicants, but it will
attract many others. And isn't that the point of a well-thought-out job
listing in the first place? You want to find people who'll kick ass at the
job, but part of that ass-kicking is cultural fit. Perhaps a bigger part than
many of us would admit at first blush. (In this particular case, they seem to
be casting a line for New York hipsters. If that's what they want, great. If
it's not, then they might want to rethink their listing).

Of course, there is certainly a way to take "startupy" culture too far. Recall
the '90s tech scene, for instance. But that depends less on the culture in
question, and more on whether or not the company is getting the results to
back up the unique culture. A unique culture is pointless, and possibly even
destructive, without productive results.

------
terrellm
Sort of backwards to my company Cattlesoft where we prefer our employees to
already have their own cows before coming to work for us.

We develop software for the cattle industry and have had far better luck with
hiring people who own cattle or grew up on a ranch as they better relate to
our customers.

Of course hiring someone who has their own cattle herd means they can't easily
pick up and move to our location so we all work from our own ranches and keep
in contact via Campfire and Skype.

~~~
pault
I have two pygmy goats, is that close enough?

------
natesm
Ok, so what is the appeal of fixed gear bikes? They can't be that good for
exercising/fun, it seems like not being able to shift would make riding
sloooow anywhere that isn't Kansas.

~~~
famousactress
Other commenters already mentioned the limited amount of pieces to break or
maintain (a big plus). Other benefits:

1\. The amount of waste between your legs and the road is supremely limited.
Until you've been on (evan a cheap) fixed gear you really haven't felt how
much power gets lost in a bike with a de-railer setup. It's very addicting.

2\. Weight. Sort of related to above.. The truth is, I like climbing most
hills on my fixed better than on my geared bike because it's _so_ light. Gears
are nice, but there's no substitute for just plain doing less work.

~~~
jrockway
You can build light fixed-gear bikes, but most fixed-gear bikes you buy at a
store are going to be heavier than a racing bike from the same store. Of
course, the price difference is going to be $3000, so perhaps that doesn't
matter much. I have a steel single/fixed bike for commuting and a carbon-fiber
racing bike, and the racing bike is about 7 pounds lighter than the fixed-gear
bike. (I do have some bells and whistles on the commuting bike that add
weight, like a chainguard, fenders, and a rack; but those only add about a
pound or so.)

I'm going to try to build a sub-15-pound fixed-gear bike in the near future,
so we'll see how that goes. The reason you see so many 15-pound derailer bikes
is because 14.99 pounds is the lower limit for UCI races, and the people that
spend money on light bikes are doing that to ride them in UCI races.

As for wasted power; I picked a gear that matches my fixed gear bike's gear
and rode both for a mile at a 95rpm cadence. Same heart rate both times, which
means my body is working equally hard to propel both the same distance and
speed. Pushing your sail-like body through the air is where your energy goes
when riding a bike. Everything else is a rounding error.

(It would be nice if someone with power-measuring pedals and a power-measuring
hub could try both scenarios, though. Then you would know exactly how many
watts are being lost in the drivetrain.)

~~~
famousactress
Sorry.. yeah, I was comparing relatively comparable budgets (or frankly even
fixed budget N vs geared budget N*2).

As far as the wasted power, so again.. I don't have a 3k road bike. Both my
bikes cost < 700$ to put together, and at that price the fixed gear is
probably gonna be lots more efficient :) I wouldn't be surprised to find out
that the power loss might be somewhat psychological either. Might be the
feeling of the pedals pushing you in the soft parts of the stroke that in-part
make you feel that connected with the pavement... either way, it feels good.
Probly as good as a few hundred bucks for a bicycle can feel :)

[Edit: Oh! Forgot another thing I really like about fixed's.. Silence!
Admittedly, bit of icing on the cake more than a core reason for riding.. but
the complete lack of sound that comes from a fixed can be a pretty beautiful
thing when riding early morning or late at night (when there's not a bunch of
other noise to drown out freewheel clicking anyways)]

~~~
jrockway
Honestly, cheap bike components aren't inefficient, they just wear out very
quickly. Low-end components use plastic where high-end components use metal,
and really high-end components use titanium instead of aluminum.

In my opinion, cheap components look and feel ugly regardless of what kind of
bike they are attached to. The good news is that you can build a fixed gear
bike out of good equipment for what you'd pay for a racing bike groupset.

------
jaredstenquist
I was really hoping this startup was actually giving the developers a cow -
not donating to an organization that donates livestock (including cows) to
hunger stricken areas of the world.

I have donated to the Heifer project before, but never saw "my cow".
Regardless of that, it's a great organization. Amicus on the other hand is
great at getting news sites to write misleading titles about them.

~~~
pault
Cows are nature's job creators.

------
fennecfoxen
At my office, we have a couple of old BMX bikes that were picked up at garage
sales, including one spray-painted blue and white with a small Star of David
awkwardly inscribed on the front with a Sharpie and the words "East Side"
scratched out on the tube.

We ride the bikes around the office because it's like 8 guys in a 3000+
square-foot warehouse (and because we've camped out in the good offices, but
those aren't quite near the restroom).

I didn't get a cow when I started. Instead we got an office convection oven. I
bake bread in it from time to time, though it's actually proved more popular
for lunchtime frozen pizzas. There's also a panini press. Today our CEO
brought in turkey soup leftovers and some ribs.

(We're hiring, but mostly looking for a really good computer vision guy at the
moment: <http://www.nearbuysystems.com/company/vision> )

------
pelemele
1999, is that you?

------
jrockway
I'd prefer to spend my signing bonus however I like.

------
pavel_lishin
"empowers non-profits and political campaigns to leverage the social networks
of their supporters to raise more money, attract more members, and win more
votes"

To me, it sounds like their product will be a Facebook app that'll ask
permission (I hope) to spam my friends.

~~~
sethbannon
You can check out our demo at <http://amicushq.com/> if you'd like to see what
our product does.

------
dfriedmn
We need more companies with real business models focused on solving social
problems. I couldn't be more excited about this rising crop of "do well by
doing good" companies. I expect big things from Amicus.

------
frankdenbow
ridiculous

~~~
bradleyland
Is it? You know what I hear from developers a lot? "I make enough money. I'm
interested in solving interesting problems and working with interesting
people."

So Amicus gives a small-ish amount of cash (relative to other signing bonuses
I've seen), but ties in several other perks that say a lot about company
culture. Each of their ideas says something about the company:

Counter Culture coffee - I didn't know anything about this brand before seeing
this listing, but it appears their focus is sustainability and education.

Donated dairy cow - I've heard of this one before, and another similar program
with goats. More "responsible world citizen" action.

Gym memberships - Combined with other items on the perk list, it appears that
Amicus wants to provide you the opportunity to live a balanced life that
includes fitness.

iPad 2 - Ostensibly for "prototyping", but really a statement that they want
to provide you with tools that allow you to work while comfortable. More
balance.

Iron Man Helmet - Manditory for all company events, I'm assuming. This is just
fun!

Unlimited beer - The statement here is that the company is laid back and
trusts you to do the responsible thing.

Fixie bike - Hipster fantastic, but who are we to judge? It reinforces the
fitness/balance statement.

~~~
synnik
Yes, it is ridiculous. They are ensuring that they get people who are
interesting... and all the exact same flavor of interesting. It feels
juvenile, even if they intended it sincerely.

Maybe they are find people, and maybe it is a fine company. I have no way of
knowing. But this approach does not appeal to me, personally because is feels
like it is trying too hard.

~~~
sethbannon
We think it's possible to work hard, make an impact, and still be playful
while doing so. That approach might not be for everyone but we certainly love
it!

------
Tyrant505
You lost me at dairy cow.. :(

------
jamescropcho
an organization's culture should drip from every pore, just like the sweat
that builds its products and services.

In the end, it's about effectiveness, and I predict this move will get Amicus
in touch with more compatible candidates, than simply writing a large check.

~~~
sethbannon
Thanks James, we agree!

------
mkramlich
So if they hire you they'll ... wait for it ... give you money, plus, some
other trinkets you could have just bought with money yourself. Hmmmmm. Put me
down as preferring to get either _just_ money, or, things I can't get already
with money. easily. But don't make purchasing decisions for me. I may have
better things I could spend money on.

------
robinwarren
awesome

