
Speaking Up on Racism - ArmandGrillet
https://www.apple.com/speaking-up-on-racism/
======
awillen
Am I the only one who's tired of these statements from corporations? I guess
they're a relatively positive thing, but they feel so hollow. I got one from
DoorDash yesterday, and it's tough not to roll my eyes at a company that has
worked so hard to screw their drivers, many of whom are minorities, talk about
how a food delivery service is fighting racism.

~~~
kgraves
It's all empty gestures to me. Just like how VCs are _now_ starting to invest
in minorities. Spare me your fake sympathy.

~~~
zepto
‘Now starting to invest’ is the opposite of an Emory gesture.

------
froasty
I understand that Apple is a brand first and foremost, so it's no surprise
that they're going to release token PR efforts and publicize their tax shelter
non-profits.

I also understand that activists, if they actually knew of the severity of
working conditions in the Foxconn factories in Shenzen or the child slaves
working in illegal cobalt mines in the Democratic Republic of the Congo to
power their smartphones and laptops, they'd stop buying Apple products
immediately, full stop.

It's a tragedy to me that a video taken by a smartphone, the privileged end
product of the slavery, dehumanization, and political repression of hundreds
of thousands outside the West takes precedence over those same anonymous
sacrificial lives--anonymous only because they _don 't_ live in the West where
recording and spreading evidence of violence is trivial.

Here's a tangential fact that should chill every human alive to the bone:
George Bush, his administration, and the instruments of his war machine still
walk free, without charges, after launching a foreign war of aggression that
killed directly and indirectly hundreds of thousands, displaced millions,
legitimated _torture_ , indefinite detentions, and drone strikes.

The Patriot Act and the lead-up to the War in Iraq led directly to ICE, the
Department of Homeland Security, the militarization of the police, the
rejection of the sacrosanctness of civil rights, and the total
unaccountability of public officials to the media. Alternate Facts and Fake
News began in 2002 with the lies of WMDs in Iraq.

Where is the rioting, the UN pressure, the international protests for charges
to be brought against George Bush, the single most responsible individual
outside of Derek Chauvin and his fellow officers for the death of George Floyd
and hundreds of thousands of others?

~~~
catalogia
ICE was preceded by the INS. I'm under the vague impression they did the same
sort of stuff, but I admit I'm not really familiar with the practical
differences between the former INS and ICE.

> _Alternate Facts and Fake News began in 2002 with the lies of WMDs in Iraq._

This stuff definitely isn't new though. Those terms are nothing more than
euphemisms for lies and propaganda, and the Second Iraq War definitely isn't
the first time America dabbled in those things. For instance consider this
incident in the runup to the First Iraq War:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony)
And the Vietnam War started after the so called "Gulf of Tonkin incident", a
pair of attacks on the US Navy in the span of two days... except Robert
McNamara admitted decades later that the second attack never actually
happened. Going back much further than that, the Spanish American War was the
result of a strong propaganda campaign waged by America's yellow press; and
the USS Maine explosion was almost certainly not enemy action (there were
people in the Navy pointing that out from the start.) With respects to the
First World War, there is probably something to be said about exactly what the
RMS Lusitania was actually carrying...

~~~
froasty
Oh, certainly. The United States (and every other country with a hawkish
foreign policy) uses atrocity propaganda to justify their wars to their
citizens. The difference between Nayirah, the Gulf of Tonkin, the RMS
Lusitania, et. al and the 2003 Invasion of Iraq is that American citizens and
international observers _knew_ the pretense was fabricated _at the time_.
These same citizens and international observers protested the fabrication, the
ensuring invasion, the total capture of the media by the administration, etc.
The only people to whom it was an _actual_ surprise that Iraq did not have
WMDs were Bush's low-information voting constituents.

------
enitihas
To save people time, this is the percent of people in leadership positions at
Apple (from
[https://www.apple.com/diversity/](https://www.apple.com/diversity/), 2018):

63% White

26% Asian

3% Black

7% Hispanic

1% Multiracial

0% Native American, Native Hawaiian, Pacific Islander

~~~
kgraves
Not good enough.

~~~
enitihas
How should it look like according to you to be good?

~~~
dvfjsdhgfv
Oscillating near the racial distribution of the population should be good
enough.

~~~
aries1980
In Hungary, in the 1920 a new legislation was introduced called "Numerus
Clausus". This limited the admission to universities and public offices by the
percentage of the ethnic ration within the country.

> Its aim was to restrict the number of Jews to 6 percent, which was their
> proportion in Hungary at that time; the rate of Jewish students was
> approximately 15% in the 1910s. In 1928 – also because of the pressure of
> liberal capital and League of Nations – the act was modified and the passage
> of the ethnicity quota had been eliminated. [1]

Until recently, this act was considered a racist by the liberal and left-
leaning thinkers, now it is considered a progressive one by the very same.

\- [1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerus_clausus#Hungary](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerus_clausus#Hungary)

~~~
enitihas
Many American Universities are trying to do the same thing though, but since
they are spineless and don't want to admit the existence of a quota, they are
resorting to shady tactics like qualifying applicants on "positive
personality,” likability, courage, kindness".

[https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/15/us/harvard-
universities-p...](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/15/us/harvard-universities-
personality-criteria-admissions.html)

------
seemslegit
Making this about racism is a self-serving distraction for many. This is about
unaccountable abuse of power - something that Apple as a trillion-dollar
gorilla is no stranger to.

------
seemslegit
"We commit to continuing to fight the forces of environmental injustice — like
climate change — which disproportionately harm Black communities and other
communities of color. "

I'm not sure what's more racist and insulting - for Apple to believe that many
black people will appreciate them taking this as another opportunity to play
PC bingo or for them to think that it doesn't matter if they do or not.

------
hpoe
At first I wanted to dismiss this as empty corporate posturing. Which I am not
going to entirely dismiss.

But then I paused because this wasn't an Apple PR announcement, but from the
CEO himself, and one of the things I've found important in impacting change in
large organizations is a loud, clear and consistent statement from Senior
Leadership, if for no other reason than it gives the scurrying middle managers
an idea of what they should try and focus on promoting and reporting, which
then trickle down to the rest of the workers.

But again on the other hand what is Apple realistically going to do to change
racism across America, after all Tim Cook and Apple aren't seen as societal
but technology leaders, so maybe it is just empty virtue signaling to try and
appeal to customers.

Can I also point out one other thing, among people that I know that lean more
conservatively it appeared that they had a stronger reaction and seemed more
united around the message of ending police brutality and police overreach and
immunity than around the message of racism.

That's probably a complicated topic worthy of discussion in it's own right,
but if we were to change the branding of this from ending racism to reforming
and rethinking policing maybe we could get more traction. Although it might
not address the underlying problem any improvement is good, after all a brick
wall is built one brick at a time.

------
kevindeasis
I've seen a lot of people comment about their employers in different forums
that they are upset that the employer did not make any statement at all about
the current situation

I'd like to ask you folks on what you guys think and feel about employers
deciding to make statements or not make statements at all

------
clairity
better than nothing, but so corporate-speak that it's hard to take seriously
(as much as i'm bought in to the apple ecosystem).

it's a vision statement, not an action plan. that's ok, but it doesn't really
put any skin in the game. it especially doesn't lay out any concrete outcomes
they're committed to achieving. granted, it's not solely apple's job to change
the world, but either commit or hold your chips. hedging doesn't help.

so mostly branding, like most CSR† initiatives (again, better than nothing,
but not much).

† corporate social responsibility

------
Acrobatic_Road
When are they going to speak up about Hong Kong, Uighur concentration camps,
Tiannamen, etc?

~~~
enitihas
Never, that is not good for business. Simple.

------
frabbit
This is a very brave and controversial stance of Apple to take. I shall be
purchasing more of their brand.

~~~
hpoe
I too feel the same way. Before the only thing that stopped me from buying an
overpriced laptop with diminishing features and utility was ambiguity over the
racism of the CEO. But now that I know the CEO of Apple is not racist because
he made a webpage that said he was not racist I intend to convert my whole
ecosystem over to Apple, I will be buying their new top of the line MacBook
Pro with its sleep 16 inch screen and up to 8 core i7 processor.

~~~
frabbit
What about a phone?

------
kgraves
This is cool and black lives do matter but has anybody seen Apple's diversity
numbers?

~~~
zepto
Of course, because they are public and trivial to google:
[https://www.apple.com/diversity/](https://www.apple.com/diversity/)

~~~
kgraves
But no improvement in over 3 years.

Not good enough.

I look forward to their 2020 numbers. Do better Apple.

~~~
zepto
Compared to who?

~~~
kgraves
No.

Don't start that, Apple's data from 2016 to 2019 overall, Blacks in Apple has
been stuck at 9% overall for 3 years.

Leadership positions stuck at 3%.

Tech positions went down to 6%.

The only positions that have reached double digits are Retail and Non-tech,
not even retail leadership.

I will say it again, not good enough Apple.

~~~
zepto
Don’t start what?

You seem to be manufacturing outrage against Apple based on nothing at all.

Did you actually read what Tim Cook said?

“We can do better.“

So it seems like you are in agreement with him that they can improve. Is there
someone who you think is doing better, who Apple could learn from? Do you have
any suggestions as to what has been shown to work?

~~~
kgraves
Looks like the data means nothing to you then. I just told you they just
aren't good enough.

Anyone can say “We can do better.“, it's just another empty response.

You know what they should do. Show me some improvements in the diversity
numbers, then we can talk.

~~~
zepto
‘They aren’t good enough’ is just as empty as ‘we can do better’ is it not?

The difference is that Apple is at least showing their numbers, bad as they
are.

 _Anyone can say_ ‘not good enough’.

You say that I know what they should do. I don’t, but the implication is that
you do. There may be others here who also don’t.

Please tell us what they should do, if you know.

