

Sony suing fail0verflow & geohot over PS3 jailbreak [pdf] - angusgr
http://geohot.com/Motion%20For%20TRO.pdf

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milkshakes
_Finally, SCEA will likely prevail on its claim under §1030(a)(7)(B), which
prohibits “intent to extort from any person any money or other thing of value”
by threatening “to obtain information from a protected computer without
authorization or in excess of authorization or to impair the confidentiality
of information obtained from a protected computer without authorization or by
exceeding authorized access.” Hotz violated this provision when, in the same
post in which the published SCEA’s Keys, he attempted to obtain from SCEA “a
thing of value” in the form of employment: “if you want your next console to
be secure, get in touch with me.”_

geohot offers to work for them and help them build something that's actually
secure, they sue him for "extortion". beautiful.

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mycroftiv
So, let's see if we can summarize the story in broad outline. Sony releases
the PS3 with the included functionality of installing an alternate operating
system. Users purchase PS3s with this ability. Sony changes its mind about the
benefits of this feature and removes it via a software update. Users take
steps to regain the full functionality of the devices they purchased. Sony
sues the users for this action.

~~~
cmoylan
If you buy hardware, you should own that hardware and be able to do with it as
you please.

~~~
dekz
"Whoa there buddy, you made your own gravy for that chicken? I don't think so,
you have to buy our gravy for your delicious dinner."

~~~
jrockway
But what if that gravy you made is so healthy and flavorful that it gives you
the energy to go on a murder rampage? Clearly being able to make your own
gravy is facilitating crime, and must be prohibited.

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Xuzz
Incredibly relevant: Daeken's Hardware Hacker Manifesto:
<http://daeken.com/the-hardware-hacker-manifesto>

Sony probably has the upper hand legally here. The DMCA seems to be pretty
explicit about these kind of this, at least from my non-lawyerly reading of
it. Even so, this is quite unprecedented. Apple and Nintendo have both had
devices hacked, often by these same people (there's at least two iPhone Dev-
Team members there, four members of Team Twiizers, and, of course, geohot),
but they never took any kind of legal action.

(Somewhat unrelated, but funny: even Nintendo found out "bushing"'s real name
and phone number. I wonder why Sony didn't go through that trouble and
referred to him pseudonymously.)

~~~
eli
Unprecedented?

 _In this case decided in 2005, Sony received over $6 million in a copyright
infringement judgment against a small online retailer who violated the Digital
Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), 17 U.S.C. §§ 1201 et seq., by selling
computer chips that allowed unauthorized copies of PlayStation games to be
played on the PlayStation console._

[http://www.patentarcade.com/2010/07/case-analysis-sony-v-
fil...](http://www.patentarcade.com/2010/07/case-analysis-sony-v-
filipiak.html)

~~~
angusgr
There was never much of a PlayStation One homebrew or Linux scene though, was
there? So it'd be hard to argue that the PS1 device had any useful purpose
other than piracy.

Unlike with PS2&3, where for a while there Sony pretty much endorsed
alternative uses of the console.

~~~
eli
That may improve the moral standing, but I don't see how it affects the legal
situation. There's no right to homebrew in the DMCA (sadly).

------
christoph
I personally don't think this is a good move from Sony. Apple seem to have the
right stance with their hardware being compromised - pretty much just ignore
it.

Bringing a legal action like this just raises the public awareness to the hack
(not good for Sony). It pisses more hackers off (not good for Sony) and it
doesn't fix what seems to be an unfixable problem for Sony.

I'm sure the courts will be made aware that Sony removed a "key"
feature/selling point of a console and left consumers with little choice about
how to re-enable that feature.

Anyway, Geohot shouldn't have been such an egomaniac, the keys/tools could
have been leaked online anonymously and he wouldn't be in legal trouble.
Still, I can see an out of court settlement of some kind on the horizon...

~~~
loire280
Apple makes their money from hardware -- software sales are just icing on the
cake. Sony, however, has to take piracy threats (since even well-intentioned
cracking will lead to piracy) very seriously because they make all of their
money from software sales.

Sony's ineffectual attempts to lock down the PSP (starting with the last-
minute homebrew policy reversal) probably contributed to the firmware hacking
community's fervor. However, after the rampant piracy on the PSP platform, I
think Sony is going to take any firmware hacks very seriously. Gamers have
proven to be perfectly willing to pirate games if given the opportunity.

~~~
axod
Sonys problem is that they make the most expensive games console hardware, but
make a loss selling it.

If I were them I'd fix that first. And get rid of the ridiculous and outdated
blu-ray crap. Spinny disc things? In this day and age?

~~~
MoreMoschops
I remember when Nintendo said that. You'll note that the spinny disc camp
slaughtered them. Spinny discs are little sheets of polycarbonate. They're
ridiculously cheap to make.

------
elliottcarlson
Various sources [1] are stating that the Sony PS3 TOS allows Sony to disable
units remotely leaving them unusable for both online and offline use.

While I would be fine with being banned from their network, I believe the
hardware should be mine to do with as I please - with the obvious exclusion of
piracy. If I want to get Linux on there, then that should be my right as the
owner of the hardware - same if I want to run custom firmware to allow me to
do hobby development. Both their supposed right to unleash a ban wave, as well
as their lawsuit against Geohot et al just doesn't make sense - why can a
lawsuit like this even be allowed to happen? (This question is linked to the
fact that Geohot purposely did not add peek/poke functionality on what he
released to ensure that piracy would not be possible using his tools - even if
others have since added that in)

[1] [http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-in-
theory-p...](http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-in-theory-psn-
jailbreaking)

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Sephr
How the heck is "if you want your next console to be secure, get in touch with
me" extortion?

~~~
mquander
Seriously? We can argue the ethics all day, but from Sony's point of view,
this series of events is isomorphic to an expert lockpicker breaking into
their office building and then sending a letter saying "if you want your next
building to be secure, get in touch with me."

~~~
kahirsch
Which is also not extortion.

~~~
mquander
I'll have to take your word for it. That literally reads as the dictionary
definition of a protection racket to me.

~~~
EliRivers
Does it? Exactly which dictionary did you literally find that in? Do you even
know what the word "literally" means?

I'm a fair man; let's do some checking. Here's one:

[http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/american/prote...](http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/american/protection-
racket)

"an illegal system in which criminals threaten to harm you or your property if
you do not give them money"

How strange; it's not remote close to what you literally read as a dictionary
definition.

I've checked other dictionaries too; same story. Here's an idea; why not open
up this magical dictionary you have and see what it says under the word
"literally".

~~~
mquander
I literally found a definition a lot like yours in my literal dictionary. I am
sort of baffled at your comment because that sentence seems to be an accurate
description of the situation I described in my analogy. Let me

A) I and my colleagues illegally broke into your thing ("harm you and your
property"),

B) and you had better hire me to fix your thing ("give them money"), or

C) we'll probably do it again next time ("threaten").

I'm not sure what the source of our disagreement is.

I disagree that your fire department remark from above is a correct way of
thinking about the situation, because the fire department does not start
fires, nor do they charge for leaflets. What makes it seem like extortion is
not primarily that geohot is offering to secure their console. It's that he's
offering to be paid to do so in the next breath after helping to exploit their
console.

~~~
MoreMoschops
If this were extortion, in exchange for being paid, he'd not do something.
What exactly is it that you suggest he will not do, in exchange for money,
given that he's already released the crack to the world?

~~~
mquander
_"if you want your next console to be secure, get in touch with me."_

I suggest that in exchange for being paid, he will not help crack the PS4.

(I don't actually think that was the spirit of his remark, of course, but it
probably is literally true that if Sony hired him, he would likely not help
crack the PS4, while as it stands, he may well do so.)

