
I Would Like to Get a Raise Template for Webdevs - johnpolacek
http://johnpolacek.github.io/I-Would-Like-A-Raise-Email-Template/
======
dpweb
I would leave out the 'industry averages' argument - my reaction as a manager
is 'so what' \- if I think you suck and you can make more somewhere else, go
ahead.

Your mindset as the employee is, I'm bringing more value than my comp is
worth. The employer mindset is, if I don't give this raise, will they walk and
do I care. That's why sales guys have the top salaries - its easy to quantify
- they bring in - make ALOT of $, or they don't and are out of a job. With
Devs its harder, so you make your case.

Another thing, managers higher up who make the decisions don't necessarily
know who is good and who isn't. Especially introvert devs who are the farthest
thing from self-promoters. Your interactions with your boss, annual reviews,
kudos, etc.. should give you some idea how well you are liked. Well liked
people get raises because losing them hurts.

I wouldn't be too timid then - and ask directly. Not this "can we please
discuss further". Rather, "I would like a 5% percent raise. Here is why I
deserve it." Could be job accomplishments. Could be speaking, helping
marketing, extra-curriculars.. Any chance to quantify with numbers is good.
You'll get it, or not - or get part of it. It's just business and you are
likely much more emotional about it then your employer, who deals with this
thing all the time.

~~~
curun1r
Industry averages isn't convincing. Most employers have better industry
average data than you do as an employee. My company gives me industry data for
all the positions I manage that can be segmented by location and years of
experience. We use it to guide comp changes and it makes it easy for me to
know whether someone is bluffing, even when they're talking about moving to a
different city. So if one of my directs comes to me with industry averages, I
can normally tell immediately that it's just what recruiters have been quoting
him/her and they're just saying that to entice him/her to interview and get
negotiated down.

What is useful is another offer. If one of them came to me with, "I've got an
offer at $X and would prefer not to have to switch jobs...can you match it?",
I have to take that seriously. It's also much easier for me to sell it to my
boss when I'm basically selling it as a save job rather than something
preemptive.

It's a strategy that can't be used too often...eventually, your employer will
just call your bluff and you'll have to move jobs. And it only works if you're
actually under what you can get in the market. But if you're in a situation
where you really need a one-time correction, taking the time to interview will
make the process of getting the raise at your current employer go a lot more
smoothly.

~~~
click170
That's a fair point, but as an employee if I'm forced to use job offers to
argue for a fair wage, you are increasing the chances that I will find an
offer that I decide to take without challenging you with it.

As an employee, if I have to battle with management for a fair wage by
leveraging other offers, you aren't an employer I will show the tiniest shred
of loyalty to when I find even a slightly better offer, and I would struggle
to justify giving two weeks notice instead of quitting on the spot.

You are painting a picture where management takes an adversarial stance to
interactions with their employees. This does not sound like a healthy work
environment to me.

~~~
curun1r
Two points:

\- I was giving advice to someone asking how to ask for a raise. Asking for a
raise is always going to be somewhat adversarial. Either it's a really small
company, in which case money is likely tight, or it's a large company and
budgets have been set, so raises outside the normal cycle are always going to
be difficult.

\- As a manager, I try to preemptively ensure that my most valuable directs
can't pull this on me. I've got the industry data and I use it during the
prescribed EoY period to suggest adjustments that I feel compensate them above
what they would get offered elsewhere. I've recommended giving devs $10k+/yr
in addition to their normal EoY raises simply because I thought there was a
chance they're getting down near their market rate.

If I err, it's on the side of caring too much for my team and I try to take
care of them whenever possible. But asking for an off-cycle raise is going to
require a sell job on my part and I need them to give me the ammunition
necessary or it isn't going to happen. That's just the way things are when
you're at a large organization with a reasonably-sophisticated budgeting
process.

Perhaps that's the other nugget to offer someone looking to get paid
more...timing is really important. Management may be completely sympathetic to
your request and agree that you should be paid more, but basically have their
hands tied in terms of giving it to you. If you're asking at a time when
salary adjustments are common, getting a larger adjustment will likely be
easier, especially if it's tied to an above-average review.

------
szmartas
IMHO: These types of things are not successfully dealt with via email. If you
are in search of an email template, you are on the wrong path.

Your raise or lack thereof will be determined by one or two people. (a person
will make the decision and perhaps their superior will need to approve it). If
you don't know who the person is, your first task is to find out. Let's assume
you know who the person is. If two people have a healthy relationship and
there is an important issue to discuss, the issue will be raised and discussed
in person. If you don't have a healthy relationship with the person who will
make the decision, fix it.

IMNSHO: If you are not willing to do the above, by far the most effective
email template to ask for a raise will be: "Dear X, I am writing to apply for
the web developer position at company Y (...)"

~~~
johnpolacek
As stated in the intro, the email is meant to be the start of a conversation.
Of course you can discuss it in person instead. For many people, it can be
intimidating and stressful to ask for a raise. Sending an email allows you
choose your words wisely and take some of the pressure off. Better to send an
email than to keep waiting for what feels like the right time.

Some have suggested the tactic of threatening to leave as your negotiation
tactic. I would recommend against that if you like working where you are, as
it could backfire. You could even get that raise, but then later be let go. If
you don't really like where you are working at all that much, then go for it
(but maybe don't lead with that tactic as it can burn bridges).

------
onion2k
_Write articles. Give talks. Share your knowledge and help others be better._

Those things are great but they won't get you a raise. They'll only really
help if you want a better paid job at a different company. To get a raise you
need to demonstrate to your employer that you're undervalued - do really good
work[1], bring in new clients, teach things to other members of your team.
Raises happen internally, external things won't really help.

[1] Note that this does _not_ mean going over and above the specification of a
project. That's a _bad thing_ as far as the business is concerned because
chargeable work should never be done for free. If you want a raise try
suggesting things to the client that they will pay for - bringing more money
in to the business _always_ makes you look great.

~~~
johnpolacek
In my own experience, having popular open source projects, giving talks, and
writing articles contributed to the overall picture of my value as an employee
and helped me advance my salary. This obviously can vary depending on where
you work.

Doing those things also were great learning experiences, and made me better at
my job.

It certainly helped me feel confident that I was worth a raise, and
comfortable in that if I did not get paid competitively, there would be other
opportunities.

Also you mention bringing in more business. Depending on your company, doing
those things can bring in more business.

------
navd
Lately I've been experimenting with asking for raises quarterly and so far
it's worked out great. My tips for people:

1) obviously know who is in charge of how much you make. Like actually get to
know them.

2) find a way to stand out amongst your peers. For me it was a dedication to
learning new tools that have benefited us and actually being good at my job.

3) go out of your way to get shit done and do stuff right.

4) ASK for a raise from the person in charge of your $$$ directly. Don't waste
anyone's time and don't wait on the sidelines hoping people will take notice
of your efforts. If you don't ask to get paid more it won't happen.

5) be so good that if your company looses you it's really going to hurt.

~~~
walshemj
Quarterly that's very pushy - how's that working out I could see there being a
risk of -ve outcomes

re #3 I fixed a multimillion screwup at British telecom Neither I or the
Company accountant got even a thank you. #5 Cemetery's are full of
indispensable people

~~~
navd
Well I'm at a relatively small company ~40 employees. I interact daily with
the CEO - which helps a lot. And it can be risky but the worst you can get is
a NO. Which I've gotten. But who cares.

All I've got to say if the company you work at doesn't appreciate you I'd look
somewhere else. Somewhere where devs are actually appreciated.

If in a corporate type job, everything I've said is irrelevant. But who wants
to work in corporate America anyways?

~~~
mildbow
I'm all for doing what you can to up your pay because, at the end of the day,
that's the only concrete way a company can show that it values you.

However, quaterly seems a bit extreme to the point of being nagging/needy.
Consider how your relationship with someone changes if they kept asking the
same question. I would think at some point you would become the "ugh, he's
asking for a raise again" guy. So the worst case isn't a NO. The worst case is
you get filed as "that guy".

Maybe space it out while asking for bigger ones?

How many times have you asked for a raise with this schedule?

~~~
jblow
As someone who runs a small company, I agree with this 100%. You don't want to
be that guy.

------
mildbow
5%?

Guys, I hope you are asking for/getting more than that.

The foolproof way to get a raise is to have another offer. Don't say: I have
recruiters contacting me (everyone does). Just get a concrete offer. Then say
you have an offer but really like it there, would they please meet it? If they
don't, they don't value you GTFO. If they do, you get your raise. Win Win.

That's how I went from 80k to 180k over 5[0] years.

[0] Edited from 4 to 5 coz time flies :)

~~~
TylerE
Also a great way to be the first one let go after a bad quarter.

~~~
mildbow
My personal experience has been different. I feel like that's just the risk
averse part of you speaking.

If you value a dev, would you really let him go over a bad quarter for ~20-40k
vs another one who isn't "as good"? I don't think so.

Of course, all bets are off if you are viewed as fungible. In that case your
problem of asking/getting raises isn't the problem, it's a symptom.

------
markbnj
Am I the only one who feels this discussion should be in person, not via an
email? And most especially not via an email derived from some template?

~~~
johnpolacek
Maybe template is the wrong word. It is meant to be a loose outline of what
you could say. A starting point with some advice. Every situation is unique.

Also, this email should function as the invitation to have a discussion.
Finding the right time and way to ask for a raise can be difficult and
stressful. Using an email to start things up can take the pressure off.

------
noswi
It was very hard to read a text this bright on a white background.

~~~
johnpolacek
Made it darker and increased the font size slightly. Hope that helps. :)

~~~
Encosia
Still pretty tough to read here:
[https://www.dropbox.com/s/036jxac9dm9l7rw/hard-to-
read.PNG?d...](https://www.dropbox.com/s/036jxac9dm9l7rw/hard-to-
read.PNG?dl=0)

~~~
jlees
At a guess, you're using Windows and the author is using Mac? [1] (I'm also
using Windows -- it's my gaming PC, don't judge! -- and having an equally
difficult time.)

[1] [http://damieng.com/blog/2007/06/13/font-rendering-
philosophi...](http://damieng.com/blog/2007/06/13/font-rendering-philosophies-
of-windows-and-mac-os-x)

~~~
Encosia
> don't judge!

Definitely don't let anyone ever judge you for that. The vast majority of
desktop/laptop users are on Windows, including a slightly-less-vast majority
of developers.

~~~
couchand
Being in the majority is not really a laudable trait...

~~~
Encosia
Seems like there's a lot of middle ground between "laudable" and "don't
judge", yes?

------
amelius
If everybody starts asking for a raise, the average salary will go up, and we
can start all over :) By the way, I'm wondering how one would determine the
average salary for one's job in a reliable way (your boss could contend that
those numbers are fake to some extent).

Wouldn't it be advantageous to employees if salaries were just out in the open
within a company/department? It seems to me that employers benefit most from
the current situation where salaries are private.

~~~
walshemj
Ask him to share those secretive surveys that hr get with all the staff

------
johnpolacek
I removed the bit from the example where it mentions family. I think in some
cases it is good to talk about the reasons why it is important to you to get a
raise outside of just the money. It seemed to bother people and I think it is
an optional thing anyway. Certainly not necessary in an email opener.

------
jasode
I disagree with the letter's approach even though the author says it works
based on his experience.

The _best_ template for getting a raise is something like this:

 _To Boss /CEO, I will be resigning my position at the company to take
advantage of a new opportunity. Regards,_

After that email is sent, you'll then know if the managers will woo you with a
salary increase to keep you, or laugh and tell you not to let the door hit
your ass on the way out.

If you're a superstar, you can leave and make more money. The superstar
programmers at DEC left and jumped shipped to Google Inc. The superstar
engineers at Lockheed & Boeing got lucrative offers from SpaceX. You'll also
get bigger raises than a measly 5% raise. More like 20% to 100%

Now, if you're not at all interested in actually switching jobs, your options
for leverage are severely handicapped. Even in that case, I recommend a
different approach than the author's suggested text:

If you can't leave the job, you have to _explain_ your _value_ in concrete
terms and why it's not being properly compensated.

Option 1: An example of leveling up the salary to your _actual duties_ that
management has overlooked: _" Since the end 2014, I've been tasked to manage
the Linux server reliability team in addition to delivering new web apps
functionality..."_ You then ask to talk about market rate compensation for
_management work_.

Option 2: An example of leveling up to _new tasks_ and asking for the
increased compensation to go with it: " _I 've been doing web app here for 2
years but I've noticed many inefficiencies with the Linux reliability team. I
feel I'm the right person to take additional responsibility and make the team
effective but I'd like to talk about compensation..._" \-- Basically you're
being proactive about fast-tracking a promotion to a _more valuable_ role
within the company.

The 3rd option outlined by the author is the worst situation to be in: Doing
what exactly you've been doing while simultaneously asking for a ~5% raise to
"match market surveys" is a position of weakness. The boss responds, _" ok,
thanks for bringing your concerns to our attention, we'll get back to you"_
... and then they don't bother giving you a raise. You'll be secretly branded
as a fool if you don't resign.

Lastly, some stylistic choices on author's wordcrafting I disagree with:

 _" I have no desire to work anywhere else, but lately I have been getting
lots of recruiters and people I know at other companies reaching out to me to
see if I'd be interested in making a move. I tell them I am not interested of
course, "_

This text is an example of "trying too hard". You don't need to write any of
that "social proof" stuff at all. If your managers are intelligent, they will
_infer_ this without you explicitly mentioning it. It's like you ask a girl
out on a date by prefacing, " _I 've been approached by lots of girls and I've
been fighting them off but I really like you so will you go to the prom with
me?_"

And this:

 _" Now that I have been married for a couple years, I am starting to make
plans for a family, "_

Do not put personal reasons into business correspondence. It looks weak. Yes,
you have a family, or a mother with cancer treatments, or a daughter that
needs a college education fund. The problem is that __everyone__ has personal
goals that require employment salary so mentioning it just triggers a "yeah so
what?" reaction. I suggest for folks to watch[1] the Jack Lemmon & Kevin
Spacey's _" But my daughter" / "Fuck you"_ scene 100 times to rid themselves
of the idea to put personal touches into business discussions about raises.

[1]
[https://youtu.be/55wIwwmrHxk?t=3m54s](https://youtu.be/55wIwwmrHxk?t=3m54s)

~~~
ceejayoz
> After that email is sent, you'll then know if the managers will woo you with
> a salary increase to keep you, or laugh and tell you not to let the door hit
> your ass on the way out.

I was under the impression that taking a counter-offer is unwise as it tends
to mean they fast-track finding a replacement for you, as you're clearly
disgruntled enough to find/accept other work and a salary bump generally won't
fix the reasons.

~~~
jasode
Yes, the boss can be suspicious about your long term prospects if the employee
leaves them with the impression that the _only reason_ to stay was the pay
increase.

That's where the employee has to package the _multiple reasons_ for staying
besides the money. You can also bring in the "family" reasons if you want to.

Example:

 _Boss: "Yikes John, we hate to see you go. We can give you a 10% raise to
stay."_

 _employee: "Hmmm... that's interesting. Well, I've been wanting to work
Mike's team on the robotics software. Can I also get more involved with that?
And I need to talk it over with my wife. She's really been wanting to stay in
the area to take care of her mother, so if she hears about this, she may be
convincing me too. etc."_

Notice that I recommend that people leave out personal family stuff in _asking
for a raise_ but it's ok to use it when _accepting the counteroffer_.

Bringing up the "baby needs new shoes" to ask for a raise is signaling to the
boss that you're clueless about business negotiation. But paradoxically, it's
ok mention the family stuff as an _additional reason_ to accept the
counteroffer because it gives the boss the warm & fuzzies that it's not purely
mercenary.

------
cluok
Why would you degrade yourself by begging for a pay rise and using your wife /
marriage / family plans as a way to show your vulnerability?

Begging and using your family situation for anything is beta. You need to step
up and use your power to get more money. If you're not paid enough; LEAVE!
Grow a backbone.

Real career progression doesn't happen off the back of begging. I certainly
won't take you seriously for any position of power if you try and beg your way
there.

I don't care about your family plans, I care about the value you bring to me.
Be valuable, be alpha, be worth what you're asking for or fuck right off.

Down vote and censor my language all you want; you don't win by being a
whining ass bitch.

~~~
juliangregorian
Great advice here, need more money? Just "use your power". Thanks bro.

Would love to know how much "power" you actually wield. I suspect not much.

~~~
cluok
Firstly, I'm fairly senior in a large consultancy; make of that what you will.

Secondly; I mean the power and influence that you have in your company, if you
have no influence in your company, then at least you have some power in your
market. Your employer is not the only one in your city and moving usually
gives you a pay bump. Just don't go fucking begging, you're a professional and
you're worth money.... bro.....

~~~
juliangregorian
> fairly senior in a large consultancy

Which could easily mean "frustrated and impotent mid-level at a soul-draining
mega-conglomerate dinosaur", which would certainly shed some light on your
posturing behavior.

But to the point, I don't see anyone advocating whinging or begging, that
interpretation was tacked on by you and your alpha-beta nonsense. Bro.

~~~
cluok
Stop making assumptions about me. You don't know me.

Do you really think that whining about your wife and your family plans isn't
begging? Please sir... can I have more?

Ask for what you deserve or go and get it elsewhere.

Asking for more because you are about to have a family is begging, it comes
across as asking for a favour. Your boss, or his boss, or the boss you don't
like may grant you the pay rise but you're positioning it as a market average
pay rise at best or a favour which you owe gratitude for at worse.

If you are worth more, tell me why and ask for it like an adult; don't
bullshit me, I know your worth and so do you; if we disagree on that point,
prove me wrong or get another job in this incredibly liquid market.

IT guys are fucking terrible at negotiating. This letter and your response to
me are classic examples.

~~~
cluok
@juliangregorian - Not sure why I can't reply directly to your post so I'll
quote you here then reply

"Getting a lot of projection out of you; you sound quite bitter. Actual
employers love it when employees start families and it is worth extra money,
but I won't waste my breath explaining the subtleties of that to you. It's too
bad we can't all just be alpha for money like you; I'm sure we'd love to read
your blog post telling us how."

Why are you making this about me? Like I said, you don't know me.

How do you know companies like it when employees start families? That's highly
subjective and down to the company; it also has nothing to do with what we're
talking about. Having a family does not mean you are worth more to a business.
Do you have any idea how many days I've taken off to look after my sick kids?

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

You are a highly paid professional with one of the most in demand skills in
the modern world. Act like it.

------
imaginenore
DO NOT do this over email. Just talk to your manager. Tell them you want a
raise and the reasons why. If they refuse, start looking for a new job.

------
pimlottc
You're in luck, OP, someone just posted a raise template for webdevs to HN.

Oh, you meant a "I Would Like to Get a Raise" template for webdevs...

