
Job Ads You Can’t See on Facebook If You’re Older (2017) - kawera
https://projects.propublica.org/graphics/facebook-job-ads
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dang
This had a huge discussion within the window of dupeage:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15974603](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15974603)

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kawera
Oh, sorry, I hadn't seen that story before.

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dang
No worries!

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cm2012
This is because it's much cheaper to get completed applications (conversions)
in a younger demo.

Young people are more likely to be looking for jobs than older people, and
thus click job ads more. [1] Higher click through rate means much lower cost
per click. Based on the numbers in my stat link, you could likely net the same
amount of new job applications spending $3000 on millennials as spending $9000
on other demos.

This is a user friendly feature - younger people want to see these type of ads
more by far. By the data, older people do not want to see these type of ads.

Nothing to do with worker effectiveness or how HR treats older applicants.

[1] " About 60% of Millennials are currently open to a new job opportunity and
are by far the most likely generation to switch jobs. To support that, 21% of
Millennials in 2016 reported switching jobs within the past year, compared to
roughly 7% of gen Xers and other non-Millennials. "
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/larryalton/2018/01/22/millennia...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/larryalton/2018/01/22/millennia..).

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peteretep
I was thinking much the same there, that it might simply be cheaper or be
shown to be more effective to advertise to these groups, and perhaps there's
no issue if they're not discriminating at the point of interview?

That said, that may make sense but still be illegal.

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varenc
I recently got a Facebook ad for a UC Berkeley coding boot camp that was
explicitly targeting males 22-34. Fortunately Facebook gives you details on
why you’re targeted for an ad.

Screenshot:
[https://www.dropbox.com/s/hpbeves1kf7bvkt/fb_ad.JPG?raw=1](https://www.dropbox.com/s/hpbeves1kf7bvkt/fb_ad.JPG?raw=1)

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jeromegv
In that case, this isn't a job offer, nothing illegal.

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throw_away
It would be illegal if it were UC Berkeley doing it for marketing their
regular degree program, however:

[https://www2.ed.gov/policy/rights/guid/ocr/ageoverview.html?...](https://www2.ed.gov/policy/rights/guid/ocr/ageoverview.html?exp=1)

But, I believe this is a UC extension thing, which I don't think is eligible
for federal financial aid, so this rule does not apply.

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lph
So who has standing to sue? How can I prove I /didn't/ see a job posting
because I'm too old, and what damages could I claim as a result of it?

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paulddraper
There are no grounds to sue.

In the US, companies cannot discriminate against 40+ ages for hiring. But that
in no way applies to advertisement.

If Facebook puts a job ad billboard in Seattle (mostly white), but not in
Atlanta (mostly black), there's no illegal discrimination.

And for good reason: Marketing is _always_ about reaching the most likely
targets.

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fjsolwmv
This is not the case in USA, under the legal theory of "disparate impact".

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disparate_impact](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disparate_impact)

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paulddraper
That does not apply to advertising.

It could apply to say, requiring candidates to provide credit scores which
disadvantages a protected class.

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vadym909
It's an open secret in Silicon Valley that most tech companies prefer younger
workers. Recruiters do what hiring managers ask for. Most hiring managers
won't say it explicitly- they'll say things like 2-5 years experience from top
schools or from the FANG companies with experience in modern technologies.

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fjsolwmv
It's not age discrimination to ask for relevant job skills and education.

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daveFNbuck
How does putting a 2-5 year experience range filter for job skills or
education better than saying 2 or more years? Someone with 6 years of
experience doesn't have fewer job skills than someone in the 2-5 year range.

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collatzeral
FB has publicly defended this in the past. See
[https://newsroom.fb.com/news/h/addressing-targeting-in-
recru...](https://newsroom.fb.com/news/h/addressing-targeting-in-recruitment-
ads/)

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fjsolwmv
Note: That post is a response to the OP, and a rather weak response saying it
"may not in itself be discriminatory — just as it can be OK to run employment
ads in magazines and on TV shows targeted at younger or older people"

But propublica's article is also weak. Its Facebook examples are stuff like
"ad targeted to ages 21-60"

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dmoy
So that could be damning, but without seeing the whole ad campaign it's hard
to tell. If they have nearly identical ads with different age brackets running
the gamut, I dunno if that's a problem. But boy does it look like a problem.

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save_ferris
What would be a legitimate use case to segment your ad targeting for
recruiting purposes? Perhaps highlighting certain perks like paid
maternity/paternity leave, but even that isn't usually highlighted in job ads
(at least the ones I see.)

Even if there are legitimate and pragmatic use cases for this, the likelihood
of abuse seems high.

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flashman
Just spitballing, I'd tailor my messaging to women aged 30-45 to address our
position on helping people return to the workforce, while for over-45s I'd
talk about our open policy towards hiring older workers. For each, I'd
probably choose photography that featured a representative individual. Yeah,
I'm totally stereotyping the audience, but I'm also addressing common issues
for jobseekers in those age groups.

To be clear, I _don 't_ think that's what these companies are doing or they
would have spoken up in their defence. And you also have to be careful that
you express openness to, rather than preference for, a certain type of worker.

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fjsolwmv
That's pretty much what Facebook said in it's rebuttal, linked in another
comment.

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mike_n
instead of (perhaps illegally) recruiting for people of a certain age group,
why not just search for people who liked (for example) Fortnite or Harry
Potter or similar categories?

Sure, you might get a few false positives (showing your ad to a few older
people) or false negatives (missing some of the target group), but it probably
works just fine and isn't technically age-oriented. The company could just say
that it likes people who are into hobbies (eg - reading fantasy novels or
mobile games).

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blunte
If they don't want me because of my age, I certainly don't want to work for
them and provide my skills to them.

Also, it's a bit sad that Verizon can't afford an editor or reviewer to tell
them to use "you're" correctly...

"Here, your more than just a number. Practice data story-telling, analytics,
and more."

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mythrwy
Maybe it's a similar concept to the Nigerian prince scam emails purposefully
containing misspellings.

If you catch it and raise an eyebrow you aren't the mentality they are looking
for.

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blunte
Didn't know this was a thing, but it makes sense. Clever... evil, but clever.

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wonderbear
"18-35"

I just realized how soon I'm going to be "older" for demographic purposes.

