
Protein mania: the rich world’s new diet obsession - camtarn
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/jan/04/protein-mania-the-rich-worlds-new-diet-obsession
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FBISurveillance
As someone who does sports professionally, I highly recommend talking to
dietitian and doing specialized medical examination before doing any diets or
taking food supplements.

Just consuming more protein does not mean "weight loss" or "more muscles"
because extra protein will be converted to glucose thanks to gluconeogenesis
and then some of it will convert to fat. Too much protein could also lead to
kidney/liver issues as well as atherosclerosis or other health conditions.

When you work out regularly or semi-professionally you will grow muscle mass
that will lead to weight loss: workout -> more muscle mass -> more energy
consumption -> weight loss.

Last but not least, not all protein created equal: you also have to balance
animal and plant protein. There're also slow and fast digested proteins
(casein/whey).

As they say, do not try this at home and talk to your doctor.

~~~
sawmurai
There is actually no scientific proof for the claim that too much protein can
harm the kidneys or liver. The science that created that myth was badly
flawed.

Edit: see [https://examine.com/nutrition/can-eating-too-much-protein-
be...](https://examine.com/nutrition/can-eating-too-much-protein-be-bad-for-
you/) for a nice write up including sources

~~~
Nasrudith
That is trivially untrue just from cats - as obligate carnivores they have
"overclocked" kidneys such that they can drink sea water and gain hydration.
This serves them regardless of fresh water availability due to their need to
break down so much protein for calories and will quickly suffer ammonia
poisoning if given they lack sufficient argine while digesting a meal. And yet
the kidneys are still a common thing to start failing in old age and call for
a lower protein diet to counteract. Again in an obligate carnivore with less
intestinal length.

It is true that we aren't obligate carnivores but the underlying mechanism for
damage exists regardless of how well it is countered.

~~~
justtopost
Humans are not cats. There is no data supporting any of what you mention in
people. Protien is perfectly safe. Are you going to argue we die without carbs
next? Got a single citation to your point?

~~~
Nasrudith
The dose makes the poision in everything - it is just a statement that it
isn't perfectly safe and nothing is. Oxygen can cause cancer. The point was
that if even a far more specialized species could have problems with proteins
there is a mechanism for damage from too much - what that ammount may be is
another question. Just like too much carbohydrates can overwhelm the pancreas
too much protein may overwhelm the kidneys and liver.

I had done extensive feline research recently for a fiction side project and
will give my links - I had one that described the metabolic process
specifically.

~~~
Nasrudith
Bizarrely and disappointingly I'm finding less than expected when looking
through my history. Here are a few relevant bits.

[https://pets.thenest.com/lowprotein-cat-food-cats-kidney-
dis...](https://pets.thenest.com/lowprotein-cat-food-cats-kidney-
disease-9912.html)

[https://feline-nutrition.org/answers/answers-what-exactly-
is...](https://feline-nutrition.org/answers/answers-what-exactly-is-an-
obligate-carnivore)

[https://www.physiology.org/doi/abs/10.1152/ajplegacy.1959.19...](https://www.physiology.org/doi/abs/10.1152/ajplegacy.1959.196.3.633#)

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robertAngst
I've been studying the metric Protein Per Dollar for the last 3 years. Some
conclusions(feel free to google or check my profile for the link, didnt want
to self promote)-

>Lentils and Beans are the highest Protein Per Dollar items, (~100g/$), Flour
technically is among this as well

>Chicken Breast and Milk(likely because its government subsidized) are around
50g protein/$. Some pork(around 2$/lb is competitive)

>Eggs, ground beef, and tilapia are closer to 30g protein per dollar

After that, protein gets expensive.

>20g protein per dollar is pretty good for fast food, try the dollar menu.

Most protein powder is crazy overpriced. I found Myprotein Impact and
Cytosport are 60-50g protein per dollar.

We eat for 20$/week per person, and we both lift heavy weights.

As mentioned, I have these studies on my website if anyone is interested
[http://efficiencyiseverything.com/food/](http://efficiencyiseverything.com/food/)

~~~
twic
> Chicken Breast and Milk(likely because its government subsidized) are around
> 50g protein/$.

This might be about the feed conversion ratio:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feed_conversion_ratio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feed_conversion_ratio)

US chickens need 1.6 g of feed per g of mass; cows, pigs, and sheep don't get
much better than 4 g of feed per g of mass.

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hirundo
I tried eating a meat-only diet for a few months, and have mostly continued
with some veg added. What I've found is that this is the most satiating diet
I've ever tried after five decades of trying. I've also done a lot of high fat
paleo, so I'm sure that for me the satiating element is the protein. I've also
been a raw vegan and about everything else in between.

Protein fills me up and makes me stop eating far faster than the other macro
nutrients. So I'm not worried about getting too much. Unlike with say low
quality carbs, high quality proteins are self limiting. My body just tells me
no more! If I want to know if I'm genuinely hungry I just ask myself if I want
some meat. If not, I'm not.

IMHO, after a lifetime of mostly failed experimentation, (for those of us who
can afford it) putting high quality high protein foods at the center of your
diet is the most effective way to control and reverse obesity.

~~~
moltar
Exactly same experience. Tried vegetarian, vegan, paleo, strict paleo,
carnivore.

My actual best was eating beef only. I lost 6kg in a month without trying to
lose weight. I had almost no hunger. I ate at 6pm my first meal on a couple of
occasions, and normally wouldn’t feel any hunger until 1-2 pm.

~~~
TheBeardKing
Have you tried like, you know, a regular healthy, balanced diet? Real foods,
mostly plants, not too much? Just funny you didn't include that. As a side
note, the Mediterranean diet has been ranked the top diet by nutritionists
several years running.

~~~
QuantumAphid
Is there an official specific Mediterranean diet? Is it the Mediterranean of
Spain, Italy, Greece, Turkey, Lebanon, or Egypt, etc.? And from what
era/period, because my understanding is that those places are seeing
significant increases in chronic metabolic disease as well.

From what I've read, Mediterranean means something sorta along the lines of
"natural whole foods, not much meat, lots of olive oil nuts and salads" \--
and this is vague nutrition advice which can apply to almost any non-
exclusionary diet.

~~~
TheBeardKing
I really don't know, as I don't really research diets and just see that
headline year after year. My point was just that, as you said, the most
recommended diet isn't going to be one with some sort of gimmick - limit your
cals to this number, your carbs, to this number, only eat during these times,
don't eat this one entire food group, etc. The general guidelines of
Mediterranean diets seem pretty good to me, and I'm totally on board with a
little red wine every day.

~~~
QuantumAphid
I agree that this sounds like a pleasant and sustainable diet. However, like
many diets, it all depends on your starting point. I'm skeptical that this is
an effective weight-loss diet in the sense that an obese person or someone
with a chronic metabolic illness (CVD, T2D, high blood pressure) will lose
weight on. Anecdotally 5 years ago I followed this diet about and I put on
weight.

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speeder
"if you are worrying about the amount of protein in your diet, then you are
almost certainly eating more than enough."

I wonder where that author got that from... last I checked whenever I don't
eat enough protein my hair and nails get brittle and fall, my skin gets dry,
and I get random muscle pain...

I had those issues for years and years of my life, and tried everything, only
after I went to a almost zero carb diet (that at the time I didn't even knew
it had a name, it was just something random I tried after trying everything
else) that those issues went away... and as soon I eat "recommended" level of
protein instead of eatingn "too much", the problems return.

~~~
sandstrom
I respect your anecdote, but there are many other factors that could be in
play here (for example vitamins that you get along with whatever protein
source you use).

If you'd like to suggest that everyone is eating too little protein, you
should setup a double-blind study with a few hundred participants.

~~~
tallanvor
From my understanding, if I were a doctor I'd want to check on the person's B
vitamin levels, particularly biotin. There are metabolic disorders that affect
the body's ability to absorb biotin, and it could be that there's something
off with the intestinal bacteria that normally produce the bulk of our needed
biotin.

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simonsarris
> if you are worrying about the amount of protein in your diet, then you are
> almost certainly eating more than enough. This is the paradox of our new
> protein obsession.

This is off to a very bad start. Enough is not the same as optimal. Some of us
strive for more than enough.

~~~
icebraining
What's the difference between enough and optimal in this context? What results
would each level produce?

~~~
simonsarris
If someone is working out regularly but not over the top strenuously, but
feels sore the next day every time, the first course is to increase protein.

~~~
tallanvor
This is, quite simply, horrible advice.

If you are strength training regularly and slowly increasing the weights you
are using, mild muscle soreness should be expected. If the soreness is
bothering them, there are several options that are known to help - stretching,
additional warmup or cool down exercises, ice, heat, or massage.

The signs that could suggest a protein deficiency are decreasing muscle mass,
weakness, and/or swelling, but even then you would suggest a trip to the
doctor, not simply to increase protein intake.

------
ianai
How can the protein obsession be called new when I remember it being all the
rage in the early 2000s? I’ve been hearing constantly about Atkins like diets
since that time.

~~~
TheBeardKing
Because it's a fairly recent thing that every freakin thing has to be labeled
with protein in big letters on the box now. Cereal, waffles, whatever you can
think of comes in these high protein versions, or just more visibly advertises
the protein which has always existed in it. Low carb started popularly as an
Atkins thing exclusively, now there tons of variants of low carb diets.

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healstack
We in the first world are overcomplicating eating. This leads to food
obsession and disordered eating overall. Restrictive diets as such are more of
problem than a solution as they again create unhealthy food focus. Diet
industry is an extremely powerful entity as you can see even in the comments
here, where every single person has been deeply influenced by contradictory
data.

We should focus much more on experiences of living, how our bodies feel when
we consume foods overall and looking to balance out natural sources of foods
with modern sources without losing quality of life.

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cameronh90
"if you are worrying about the amount of protein in your diet, then you are
almost certainly eating more than enough."

This is not strictly true for every diet. If you consume a plant based diet
and don't eat meat substitutes, you can quite easily come in below the
recommended protein level.

In my case, eating a calorie restricted vegan diet to lose weight, consuming
sufficient proteins to meet the 0.8g/kg baseline while maintaining a caloric
deficit requires daily planning. It's by no means impossible, but you do have
to think about it.

Also seitan is your friend.

~~~
ianai
I love seitan, but I’m not sure it’s necessarily healthy. A lot has to be
removed from wheat gluten. Probably soy/tempeh are better for being Whole
Foods

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stef25
Very recently there was an article in the NYT about the benefits of eating
protein, and more so than the recommended amount, if you're trying to increase
strength (something that's != body building). It benefits everyone, esp at
older age.

A review of studies showed a clear advantage of high protein diet.

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rafaelvasco
It's amazing how easily people are alienated. I'm immune to this protein fad.
As I still have a working rational mind. But people are obsessed with protein.
Dozens of eggs. Whey protein. Chicken, chicken etc. It's appalling.

~~~
robertAngst
Post an average day of eating, someone(or I) will calculate your protein/day.

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el_don_almighty
what food groups is your body designed to process?

[https://www.webmd.com/diet/a-z/blood-type-
diet](https://www.webmd.com/diet/a-z/blood-type-diet)

Whenever the vegan/protein fight begins, I always wonder if the vegan has
considered their body design and chemical composition.

What enzymes are best supported by their natural internal chemistry?

How does this affect the internal biome that breaks down the food they eat and
how their body uses the results?

Speaking as an old-fashiioned O+, the more ribeye's I eat, the better I feel,
but my body craves the fast acting sugars that are so destructive to my
endocrine system.

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Synaesthesia
I was looking at a traditional Portuguese recipe book and (besides the
sweets!) it’s steiking how protein rich their food is. If it doesn’t have
fish, chicken or meat, it’s got beans, vegetables, lupins etc

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anjc
What's the problem with being aware? It's difficult to accidentally eat the
minimum requirements for protein, without overeating carbs/fats.

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koolhead17
No one talks about the side affects of eating meat. :)

~~~
virtuallynathan
What are the side effects of eating meat?

~~~
vidanay
Meat sweats.

Fogo de Chao....mmmmmmm

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captainbland
It's probably worth remembering that high-protein diets (remembering that
western diets tend to already be quite high-protein to begin with) are a risk
factor for kidney stones. Generally I'm predisposed to being quite skeptical
of fad diets with extreme elements like focusing on one macro nutrient group
almost to the exclusion of others.

