
Why does writing matter in remote work? - duck
http://www.timcasasola.com/blog/writing
======
Animats
There are sizable open source projects which do all coordination
asynchronously. There are no synchronous meetings, even online.

The military takes writing seriously.[1] People write things which are acted
upon by others. The reader needs to understand clearly what is intended.
Especially when they are out of communication with the sender.

It's worth understanding the military five-paragraph order format.[2] Not
because it's used much in civilian life, but because it's a checklist for what
must be covered in an order. Note especially "Commander's Intent" and "Desired
Endstate". A key point in combat orders is knowing _why_ something is being
done. Because the enemy gets a vote. If things don't go as planned, then what?

[1]
[http://tsg3.us/tnsg_lib/pldc_school/wobc/is_1460_materials/c...](http://tsg3.us/tnsg_lib/pldc_school/wobc/is_1460_materials/ch3.pdf)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_paragraph_order](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_paragraph_order)

~~~
krebs_liebhaber
The military has also been responsible for some rather gruesome crimes against
the written word [0]:

> Vanilla flavoring shall be pure or artificial vanilla in such quantities
> that its presence shall be organoleptically detected, but not to a
> pronounced degree.

> Candied cherries shall be made from pitted cherries. They shall be
> thoroughly processed with sugars to a soluble solids content of not less
> than 72 percent and artificially colored with a red dye. They shall be cut
> to yield 1/4- to 1/2-inch (6.4 to 12.88 mm.) cherry pieces on the average.

> One of the changes dictated by the Defense Department, Nunn said, shifts
> "the tolerance of candied cherries from 12.8 mm. to 12.7 mm. Always onward
> and upward."

> The flavor of the finished product shall be typical of the type indicated.
> There shall be no off-flavors or off- odors.

In case you haven't caught on, this spec is describing a _fucking fruitcake_.

[0] [https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-
xpm-1985-12-25-850329...](https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-
xpm-1985-12-25-8503290530-story.html)

~~~
onionisafruit
That’s funny, but it has me wondering what recipes typically look like for
mass produced food.

~~~
larrywright
Having spent some time working fast food many years ago, it’s not far from
that. Temperatures, cooking times, sizes. All precise. Much of the food comes
from suppliers in a ready to use state — onions, pickles, fries, etc. I would
bet that the specifications given to those suppliers are written in similar
language.

~~~
gonzo41
When i buy fast food I'm chasing memories of my first bites, my first time
made enough of an impression that I want to come back. If you mass produce
food then it makes sense to distill the exact notes on what made me spend a
dollar the first time so you can have it a second. There's nothing worse than
being out field and getting a spoiled ration.

------
tluyben2
I work with many people who are _against_ writing; they never write anything
and they only want to do sync meetings (phone/in person); I am on the tech
team usually which makes that even more painful as 'talking through tech' is a
horrible thing. Nothing sticks as everyone needs time to think about things.

Inevitably, after a while, you get people losing track of things that were
actually said, that were actually agreed on etc because there are no documents
or that kind of tracking for that matter (there is stuff in Jira, but that's
only following the hard tech points, not all the rest that was also
discussed).

My business partner and me write a lot but we know nobody is going to read it;
we do it anyway because I don't want to end up with a feeling of insanity in
yet another phone call with 'but we did not discuss that!'.

~~~
nikanj
For most companies, the process is not the product. Having immaculate meeting
notes from sync meetings 3 years ago doesn't keep the lights on.

~~~
smu
OP mentioned he's in a business owner role. He's probably talking to customers
often, possibly scoping projects or features.

In these cases, having notes will prevent scope creep and will be necessary to
have customers accept the work. Customers will forget what was discussed and
what was agreed to. They will want to add that "one last thing" just when
you're expecting to close the project.

Even in different roles (or internally), I think many would benefit from
writing down meeting notes because it anchors the discussion and creates
shared understanding. Voice only will cause many to forget specifics or move
the goal.

I don't think OP is in favor of writing a book for every meeting. Having notes
/ documentation will make you more effective. It will also lower the frequency
of you and the other party having different expectations. It's a good habit to
have for these reasons and the many others outlined in this thread.

~~~
ghaff
When I was a consultant/analyst, we had a few otherwise wonderful clients who
were also masters of expanding the scope of projects if you let them. This,
more than anything else, taught me the value of clearly documenting
deliverables and milestones. That's not to say we couldn't make adjustments if
needed but doing so needed to be done as a formal mutually agreed-to process.

------
insickness
Whenever you compose an email, put your ask in the first sentence. Do you want
information from them? Do you want them to do something for you? Put it in the
first sentence. Then put the explanation and details in the rest of the email.

~~~
thomk
This.

Even if you are emailing an old friend for a favor, put your request up front
then put the cordial stuff after, its much more sincere that way.

> Joe, we are looking for advisors to sit on our board. This is a non-paying
> position so I'm emailing all my old friends and asking for favors. Hey, how
> are you? How is your wife and son? Either way lets get together soon!
> --Aaron

~~~
Jedd
I _really_ rail against people who think 'This.' is a sentence, let alone a
useful contribution.

It's especially galling when the topic is 'Put your question / point in the
first sentence / paragraph' and someone's first word, sentence, and paragraph
is simply 'This.'

------
dkdk8283
I absolutely love async communication. I’ll look for writing competency when
interviewing at my next job. I’m bogged down in meetings enough as is. Phrases
like “hey let’s talk voice” is abused heavily.

I’ve been to meetings where the topic was to discuss what to do in our next
meeting. Absurd.

------
ilaksh
I agree. First thing that comes to mind though is that you need the other
person to have a certain level of competence, writing and reading skills, and
dedicated time in order for written communication to work. If any of those
things break down, you might be more successful with voice chat or phone
calls.

For example, I have worked with clients or bosses who unfortunately were
unable or unwilling to handle written communication effectively. Different
types of problems can occur. Some people may be busy and decide they don't
have time to acknowledge emails. So you literally don't know if they even read
them. The next issue is they will read the first one or two sentences and get
the gist, but are unwilling or unable to do any real thinking about what you
wrote, and so will reply with something fairly obvious that may actually have
been covered in your email. So technically they read it, but they didn't
understand it well or do any analysis of the information.

The other one is where the other guy has a different viewpoint and that causes
them to not want to understand the part of your message that contradicts it.

The other issue that can occur is that some people just don't quite have
enough will power or cognitive ability to focus on something without having an
audio chat. So something that requires their input but isn't their own task,
they are not able to put adequate analysis into it in an email, even though
you can see they are trying. Sometimes they are a manager and can't really
operate well without a meeting or oral discussion of some kind.

Having said all of that, I prefer working with people that can work
asynchronously on a project.

------
Cthulhu_
In my new job I do a lot of writing; documentation, architecture (ADR's), and
lots of details in the user stories themselves - although those are mainly for
myself.

But I have a fear. What if nobody bothers to read it? What if they start
reading it but just glaze over because of the sheer volume of it? I mean the
ADR's for example are a lot of 'internal' musings that I've considered.

I am a solo developer on this project at the moment (my colleagues do other
stuff), so I've got nobody to check my work either.

At my last job, my colleague just said to not bother (we were err, very
different personalities in that regard), it's wasted effort, I'm not going to
bother reading it, just show me how to start it then show me the code. Which I
guess works in smaller codebases in easier domains, but this won't be one of
those.

Is there a similar article that emphasizes that people should read other
people's writings?

~~~
Vinnl
I think the trick is to write in a way that gets other people to read it, and
in a way that's cognisant of the fact that that reading will be more akin to
skimming. Gratuitous use of bullet points and bolding two or three key
takeaways are the main quick hacks I use to in support of that goal.

Longer-form writing and proper prose are more useful for e.g. tutorials, but
things like user stories or other reference material should really be written
to be skimmable, in my opinion.

~~~
cypecoda
Exactly. When I summarized a complex technical issue to a mixed audience, the
TLDR version was in nested bulleted format, each line limited to ~5 words.
Higher level bullet points were targeted at non technical readers and sub
points aimed at the techie ones. Non technicals can opt not to dig further
into sub points.

------
yakshaving_jgt
> Less commas. More periods.

 _Fewer_ commas, surely.

~~~
timcasasola
Good catch. Changed!

------
greggyb
I have three replies, in no particular order.

1:

> We document projects in Notion. We send meeting invites with a written
> description of the purpose.

Hah! I can't remember the last time I saw well-maintained collaborative
documentation at a client. And I am among a small handful of people I know who
provide descriptions of meeting invites.

2:

I looooove written communication with others who are competent. I have an
unfortunate history of colleagues who will immediately ask for a meeting
whenever I send an email with more than one short paragraph or with an
attachment containing text of interest. In this meeting, I proceed to read
them the contents of my email, sometimes literally and sometimes paraphrasing.

I have narrowed this to the coworkers by exasperatedly sharing said emails
with coworkers and with friends in different fields to see if they understand
them. The number of these experiences is much higher than the number of
meeting invites I have received with well-written descriptions included.

3:

Yes! I agree with all of the points this author is making.

~~~
soonix
> In this meeting, I proceed to read them the contents of my email, sometimes
> literally and sometimes paraphrasing.

Did you try sending them voice messages instead, possibly via some TTS
service?

(originally intended as joke, but now that I think about it... - especially
since I sometimes use a STT service for voice messages I receive)

~~~
greggyb
It's not a bad idea. I think, though, that the problem was that these people
didn't really understand what we were doing, so needed hand holding.

------
helipad
Can anyone recommend a writing coach I could work with?

It's important to my role. I'd happily pay someone to set me (and hold me
accountable to) relevant assignments and give feedback on my work.

I understand there are writing courses, it's the 1:1 timely feedback I'm
seeking.

~~~
ubermonkey
I am not offering to do this for you, but I have absolutely wondered MANY
times over the years if this -- coaching highly technical people on writing
better -- was a business model.

~~~
ghaff
I don't know what you mean by "business model." Certainly there are lots of
people who do music lessons, presentation skills, tutoring, etc. as either a
part-time thing or as a full-time business. If it's 1:1 instruction, it's not
all that scalable although the seemingly more successful examples I've seen do
things like classes for companies and individual sessions for executives.

For individuals though, I think it's easy to see that the hourly rate can't be
all that high.

For writing, the best bet is probably to get hooked up with some editor who
does this on the side or maybe a writing prof at a local community college or
adult education center.

~~~
helipad
While no doubt I'm uninformed, my sense is professional development at the
one-to-one or one-to-few level is geared towards exec levels, such as exec
coaching and management training.

For my part, I'm not exec level yet am in a position to use either disposable
income or company money on coaching for skills such as writing.

My first thought too was looking for journalists/editors/local university
lecturers who may be looking for some extra work. I'd guess that'd require
trial and error for both parties.

~~~
ghaff
No I think that's quite accurate. When I've had e.g. presentation skills
training at work, it's been a (small) group thing. Though I could probably get
1:1 professional coaching for things if I asked for it as part of professional
development.

My first choice would probably be to try to find an editor who does or would
do this sort of thing as a side-gig. Maybe you have co-workers who have worked
with one of the tech publishers like O'Reilly or Apress in the past who could
do an introduction?

------
bob1029
I think this is a 2-way street, as with all things.

Written communications have tremendous advantage in that you can take an
unlimited amount of time to document intricate structures and processes in
such a way that they could be consumed easily by other parties. But, writing
takes a lot of time in order to achieve the highest value and can sometimes
become a bottleneck.

Verbal communications are useful in those cases where the written
communications have faltered in their ability to convey meaning, and also in
cases where you need to quickly iterate through a dynamic situation. But,
verbal communications are prone to rambling and argumentative paths which
begin to reverse business value.

IMO, the best is a dual-stack approach. Have a daily standup call, but require
that everyone email out to the participants all of their discussion points
prior to the call. All participants should be expected to read the discussion
points of others prior to joining the call. This means that everyone should be
more-or-less discussing just the aspects of the written communications that
have gaps or otherwise raised new concerns. I find this can eliminate most of
the frustration that can emerge with both techniques. For us, this isnt even
an explicit email process. We just have a special label in Github we apply to
those issues which we'd like to review each morning. Over the course of each
day, written communications in these issues would determine if a subsequent
review is required.

------
wenc
I love writing, but I regularly work with people who don't. Just wondering if
folks here have any tips for dealing with:

1\. Non-native English speakers for whom writing in English is more cumbersome
than talking -- so sync meetings are preferred

2\. Native English speakers who aren't written word/visual people and who
vastly prefer a phone call (e.g. extroverts, sales folks, folks who reply to
emails with "why don't we jump on call?")

~~~
chrismeller
After years and years I’ve decided that you are never going to convert either
group, no matter how hard you try or what kinds of benefits you extol - they
simply don’t “get it”, and that’s ok.

The only solution I have found is to carefully evaluate every situation.

If it’s important that you get a timely answer, sometimes it’s worth jumping
on a call, even if you think a quick Slack message or email would be the best
for both parties. For group 1 that may be because they’ll lock up and pause
trying to figure out how to respond (in many cases because they’re trying to
make sure everything is perfect and 100% - you’d be self conscious about your
Russian, wouldn’t you?) and for group 2 that may be because their only break
is in the car on the way from one client to another. This is the same “do I
want to die on this hill?” part you have with any interpersonal disagreement.

Second, it’s helpful to carve out specific times when this kind of “jump on a
call” can happen. Particularly with remote workers on different time zones, it
may not always be practical for everyone to jump on a call - for instance I’m
at dinner with the wife and can spend 30 seconds answering a Slack message
while she’s in the restroom, but I’m not getting out my headset and getting on
a call. I discourage setting up a recurring call, because then you run into
the issue of people holding things until the meeting that could and should
have been dealt with in a different manner, but specifying that “between two
and four every day” are available for calls can help with the sense of urgency
for the other party. If it’s 5 already and they know you can’t get on a call,
perhaps they’ll decide a textual message is worth the effort.

Establishing the time periods also helps with “quiet hours” where you can turn
off message notifications and really focus. The key is that everyone needs to
coordinate to establish those periods and they need to be known, otherwise
it’s just frustrating to never be able to get ahold of anyone.

------
disposedtrolley
On top of the suggestions in the article, I would wholeheartedly recommend
having a look at Steven Pinker's The Sense of Style [1] for a practical guide
on writing well.

[1] [https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/20821371-the-sense-of-
st...](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/20821371-the-sense-of-style)

------
DrBazza
* Keep it simple.

* When possible ask questions that can be answered yes or no.

* One question per email. My experience is that multiple questions in an email are rarely answered in full.

* Use simple words. Many people you work with, or write for, have English as a second language.

* Don't use "it" in a sentence. Replace "it" with the noun you're referring to.

------
john4532452
Any text longer than 3 lines must go through multiple edits. This rule must be
applied to all forms of textual communication including slack or teams chat.

PS: I would be thankful if you can make my post succinct without any loss in
the information.

------
barneyrubble
Did anyone else have to read that headline multiple times in order for their
brain to parse it?

------
Wmamouth
I have strong convictions about business communication.

Efficiency is key.

Every character is one brain processing unit.

Time is all we have.

Agreed.

------
gexla
This piece is kind of fluffy, I don't see why it's on the front page. Not
particularly insightful.

From my experience, Filipino's speaking English as a second language generally
have difficulty fitting in with Western culture when working remotely. This
requires extra communication and emphasis on expectations to get everyone on
the same sheet of music. Clearer explanations are required than with native
English speakers.

One example in the text. The OP misinterprets the Basecamp message that 5
people in a room for an hour is a 5 hour meeting rather than a 1 hour meeting.

> Had the Meeting Organizer took notes from the Very Important Meeting, three
> hours would be saved.

No, it's a 5 hour meeting because there are 5 people in the room. If you have
a billable project which 5 people each put an hour into, you bill 5 hours for
that project.

Writing for communication is different than writing documentation.
Communication centered around meetings is different than asynchronous
communication. The OP is bundling all these things together in one post.

A good portion of the article is on how to write well. This is how you write
an essay, not how you talk to people.

My two quick points shooting from the hip...

1\. Every group you need to collaborate with is different. By "group" I'm
including situations where the group might just be a single boss or client.
Your job is to adjust to the communication style of that group. Some groups
like to communicate in fragmented "texting" speech. Some groups communicate in
perfect English. Best to adjust or you won't get much further than that.

2\. Be authentic. Write like you speak. Start out speaking like you would to
any person you might encounter in public. Then you can adjust based on the
group. If you're trying to appear as someone you aren't, people will see
through you quickly and you'll look silly. It's also refreshing to be speaking
to regular people. If you have deficiencies, let them out so that people can
help.

~~~
aardvark291
> From my experience, Filipino's speaking English

Hey there - this seems like unnecessary ethnic stereotyping.

Also, no apostrophe is used in this situation.

~~~
gexla
You're quoting out of context. The full quote was Filipinos who speak English
as a second language. It's reasonable to point out that they'll (ESL's) need
more help in getting up to speed with communication which may include fluent
speakers.

Further context is the origin of the author. The author appears to be
Filipino. The author specifically mentioned a scenario of a meeting between
someone in London (most likely a fluent English speaker), San Francisco (most
likely a fluent English speaker) and Manila (most likely ESL.) Why not point
out the other difficulties of this scenario? I live in the Philippines, so I
experience this regularly.

