
Ask HN: Will being an engineer at a nonprofit reduce your longterm earnings? - BenjaminTodd
Suppose you&#x27;re a junior engineer at a large tech firm.<p>If you go to take a technical role at a nonprofit for several years with a much lower salary, then want to go back to a big tech firm, will your salary be reduced compared to what it would have been if you&#x27;d stayed in the big tech firm? If yes, by how much?<p>For the sake of argument, assume your skill development at the nonprofit is equally good. What I&#x27;m interested in is whether there&#x27;s a loss of earnings due to bad signalling, or because if you have a low salary at the nonprofit it&#x27;ll be harder to negotiate a high salary when you go back.
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patio11
You're at far, far, far more risk for missing the years of professional
development than you are for experiencing any signaling risk at negotiation,
at least as of October 2015. Most non-profits have, by the standards of
AmaGooFaceSoft, boring technical problems where 5 years of doing them is worth
less than 2~4 weeks at their firms.

Though, that said: there's no guarantees that when you have the conversation
in April 2019 that you'll be in the best hiring market for your interest in
the history of ever, which is approximately where we are right now.

~~~
BenjaminTodd
Point taken. The type of nonprofit I'm thinking about is the type that might
go through YC though e.g. Watsi. How much would that change things?

Also, how about if you're product manager at the nonprofit (e.g. with a budget
and doing some hiring) vs. just an engineer at a big firm?

To clarify the last point, you're saying the hiring market for junior
engineers is especially great right now, so it might make sense to lock in the
money while you can?

~~~
patio11
I'm saying that given that the current market is totally on fire, you don't
really have to worry too much about your negotiating position because the
rising tide will lift your boat, even if it has a hole or two in it.

I don't necessarily know if I'd recommend "making hay while the sun shines" as
a career strategy -- it would depend on your circumstances, values, etc.

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wordcode
I'm an engineer who has worked at non-profits for several years and have
maintained top skills. The answer is- your long term earnings will absolutely
be reduced, though not for the already cited reasons.

Essential books to read before going into the non-profit space:

* With Charity For All - Ken Stern

* Doing Good Better - Bill MacAskill

Also, read SSIR, it has the best coverage of emerging trends in the non-profit
space:

[http://ssir.org/](http://ssir.org/)

The short answer is- if income is important to you, marginally to
significantly more important than impact, DO NOT work for a non-profit. If
impact is of marginal to secondary importance, then contribute money and time
in accordance with the emerging analytics that Bill MacAskill talks about.

If impact is most important, and income is not, then by all means work for a
non-profit, but remember that mission comes first, second, third and fourth.

==

There are very, very few non-profits that are using technology in any of the
ways that resemble tech-focused big shops or startups, because at this stage
there are very, very few non-profits whose funding streams are dependent on
specific details of technology deployment.

There are (to my eyes) huge opportunities for technical innovations like data
analytics, APIification, and many others to transform the non-profit space,
but these transformations will be years in the making. The space moves very,
very slowly.

So, at a non-profit, you may maintain skills, and you can often be paid a
fairly equivalent salary, but all sorts of other income, practice, and
leadership opportunities will pass you by.

* bonus

* equity

* quantitative management

* developing for the customer

* etc

Once you have more of your life-course settled, with life partners and kids
and living situation and so forth- by all means go work for a non-profit.

I DO NOT recommend it for junior engineers.

~~~
BenjaminTodd
Thanks! So to summarise, you'll end up with lower earnings because your skills
and network won't improve as fast as they would at a for-profit?

~~~
wordcode
Well, not exactly. You can maintain individual skills and can build any kind
of network you want while working in a non-profit.

It's that you're in a _domain_ with other people who are not focused on making
money. That's not really about your network, which mostly means people you
_don 't_ work with on a daily basis. It's about the people you _do_ work with
and the opportunities and choices that emerge from those daily interactions.

You will not find people in a non-profit focused primarily or even secondarily
on making money. In fact, many people deliberately _sacrifice_ earnings to
align with the mission of a non-profit.

Non-profits are also _structurally_ unable to participate in many of the
vehicles that enhance earnings for employees in for-profits, like profit-
sharing, equity, tax-related benefits (non-profits don't pay any taxes), and
so forth.

When you're young, you might be "really good" at football and baseball, enough
to have the opportunity to pursue one or the other professionally. Nearly
everyone in that situation has to choose one or the other, and being a
professional football player will necessarily mean you are not a professional
baseball player (Bo Jackson and Deion Sanders aside). Non-profit vs for-profit
is a similar choice when it comes to earnings.

At the end of the day, an accumulation of decisions, some of which you would
make but many of which would be made around you, that all entail sacrificing
opportunities for making money, will mean you will likely wind up with lower
earnings.

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JSeymourATL
> it'll be harder to negotiate a high salary when you go back.

You might also consider, several years from-- as your career evolves, the
types of roles you'll be interested in post nonprofit stint, may well change.

Areas to explore: How might this gig stretch you professionally? Do you see
any potential to leverage this experience into something bigger, better?

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interdrift
Depends on the scale of the problems the non profit is solving and it's
overall impact.

