
Capitalism is killing the world’s wildlife populations, not ‘humanity’ - DyslexicAtheist
https://theconversation.com/capitalism-is-killing-the-worlds-wildlife-populations-not-humanity-106125
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lujim
It's time to face facts. Universities in the United States have completely
failed. They have brainwashed impressionable young students with unbelievably
bad political opinions and faulty logic while putting them in inescapable
lifelong debt. It's absolutely criminal.

I'm not even acknowledging the article because it's pure propaganda and I was
unable to get through it after several honest attempts.

~~~
gimmeDatCheddar
The brainwashing and propaganda are by design. The system was hijacked by
Marxists who were playing the long game.

~~~
lujim
STEM or skilled trades. I'm not saving money every month for my kids college
529 plans so that it can be spent to send them to a $100,000 political re-
education camp for 4 years.

The word is out about the humanities in US Universities. They are a melting
pot of resentful people who actively restrict free speech/thought while
pushing an awful mix of proven bad ideas.

~~~
gimmeDatCheddar
You're 100% right but the problem is that society will ultimately collapse
because of those indoctrinated students. It's probably too late to reverse
course. We should've paid more attention 30 years ago.

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rayvd
Cool. Back to the feudal times, folks!

~~~
lujim
Come for the mud huts and starvation, stay for the sky-high infant mortality!

~~~
beatgammit
But hey, at least you'll get to work outside!

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lujim
Socialists/Communists and anti-vaxers are similar in their irrationality.
Literally no amount of data over any time period could get them to even
question their position.

They are also similar in the fact that their ideas seek to undo over a century
of progress that massively reduced human suffering.

Capitalism and vaccinations are two of the greatest achievements in human
history in terms of improving the quality of human life on earth. Why anyone
would advocate abandoning them after learning about what life was like before
them is completely incomprehensible.

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sublimnall
I would say that blaming capitalism is too short sighted as well -
neoliberalism is the real cause (see also:
[https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/29/neolib...](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/29/neoliberalism-
economic-system-ethics-personality-psychopathicsthic))

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gfs78
It's not capitalism. It's greediness. Most resources are abused not because
they need to be abused to progress but because some CEO or investor somewhere
is not satisfied with a 100% profit, he wants more.

Resource abuse also happens/happened in communist/socialist countries.

We have to separate resource use from abuse.

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parasubvert
Compared to what? Sure, if the alternative was stasis where the majority of
humanity was stuck in abject poverty, we would preserve the world’s
ecosystems, but humanaity would be mostly miserable (and population would
probably shrink violently and dramatically).

Meanwhile capitalism has also been gradually eradicating extreme poverty -
over a billion lives in the last 20+ years.
[https://amp.economist.com/leaders/2013/06/01/towards-the-
end...](https://amp.economist.com/leaders/2013/06/01/towards-the-end-of-
poverty)

Is that worth the price? I don’t know. Self preservation and advancement seems
to be our thing.

I can agree that capitalism has massive, terrible problems. But these sorts of
essays tend not to be an argument, they are a supposition laced with
unjustified certainty, with the fig lead covering the suggested solution being
some form of collectivism. Humanity’s large scale experiments in that regard
were not environmental paradises either, though - arguably far worse than
capitalist democracies!

One might assume it’s possible to find a third way. It will be very hard. It
will take a long time. It’s a conversation worth having. But a large part of
the West is in denial that there is even a problem. I don’t think that’s a
capitalism problem, that’s a humanity problem.

~~~
FranzFerdiNaN
You can’t congratulate capitalism for lifting people out of poverty when it
was capitalism (with its friends like racism and colonialism) that put them
there. Capitalism is inherently wrong, unless you belong to the winners. And
no, a programmer making 200k a year isn’t a winner. He is bribed with toys and
a comfortable lifestyle, at the cost of immense suffering outside of his view,
to support a system that is eventually going to cost him as well. The only
winners are in the board rooms of multinationals.

Capitalism is flawed from its very core and no matter how many fixes and laws
and regulations you implement, it will always be rotten. Just one leader like
Trump and all its nastiness will show again by simply removing those laws and
regulations. Capitalism cannot be fixed, but, like cancer, it must be cut out.

The solution is of course anarchism. No gods, no masters, no ceo’s. That will
most likely mean no iPhones, as keeping global trade alive will be impossible
without the dictatorships of corporations. but that is a small price to no
longer have a system that rewards poisoning rivers halfway across the world to
make things for a bored population that is completely divorced from its
society.

~~~
lujim
You started with an incorrect assertion that contradicts every data point
available and end by advocating anarchy and a general collapse of
civilization. I admire your conviction.

~~~
gimmeDatCheddar
Communists are insane and violent individuals who don't care about data and
reality.

~~~
lujim
lol you got downvoted.... I can't imagine what kind of person wouldn't agree
with this statement. Falling for Communism in 1917 is one thing, but falling
for it with access to a 20th century history book... well that's a mental
disorder.

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chewz
Well goverments depend on consumer capitalism for tax money = financibg their
debts. So the narrative we get is that we could continue consuming with some
adjustments to current model (electric cars in pleace of combustion engines,
no plastic bags or cotton buds).

Saddly it seems this won't be enough. If we want to save the planet we should
alter the model drastically. But imagine: \- bikes in place of cars \- no more
long distance travel \- no more cotton clothes that travel half the world, are
purchased of of boredom and land in a trash next season. Spin your own thread,
make clothes yourself, repair not throw away \- no more fancy food from all
over the world, growing your own in the garden \- no more new apartments and
concrete \- dark cities after 10pm

Just a few examples. But who will choose living like this? Let us enjoy musin
on Titanic.

~~~
parasubvert
Except that urban multi-unit dwelling (apartments, concrete) is far better for
the environment than suburban or rural single-unit homes with gardens.

~~~
anonuser123456
I'm not sure concrete is better than gardens. Is density better than sprawl?
Absolutely. But it would be better to integrate nature with density.

~~~
parasubvert
Gardens are fine, integrating nature is fine, and not incompatible with high
density / concrete.

The issue is the wastefulness and carbon emissions of sprawl, fuel, etc. that
are common in less-dense areas. A return to the old-days isn't necessarily
good, is all I'm saying... Burning wood for example is worse for the
environment than coal or gas. We got away with it in olden times because there
were so few people.

