
Don't Attend a Hackathon - prostoalex
http://caseysoftware.com/blog/dont-attend-a-hackathon
======
theseatoms
Article should be re-titled, "Don't write code for free at a hackathon."

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mrspeaker
To be fair, the title was a (not-so-subtle) "twist" in that you thought it was
going to tell you not to go to hackathons, but it flipped it by saying "Don't
attend a hackathon... if you're just looking for devs to implement your
ideas".

It was telling the "ideas people" to go away, not the devs to avoid them.

~~~
avn2109
Relevant and hilarious:
[http://whartoniteseekscodemonkey.tumblr.com/](http://whartoniteseekscodemonkey.tumblr.com/)

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terhechte
When I run into people like this, I always say the follwing:

"I also have a great idea, I'd like to start an electric car factory in india.
I just need an engineer who plans the factory, designs the electric car
blueprints, manages the building of the factory, organizes the machines, and
implements the structure for mass producing cars. Shall we do a 50/50? You
build the factory, I do the rest."

~~~
jrs235
Exactly. Reminds me of this parody:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkGMY63FF3Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkGMY63FF3Q)

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gtrubetskoy
I'd say a lot (most) tech companies are similarly places where "idea people"
sometimes known as "business" are having developers implement their ideas. And
even though in this case the developers are paid, I'd say same advice applies
- it's not a good place to work. Find a place where you are paid to implement
your ideas, or ideas you really understand and believe in.

~~~
hmottestad
I thought the exact same thing when I read the article. Just because you get
paid doesn't mean you should do the work.

It is a star in my book though, when someone has managed to convince other
people to part with their money before they come asking for people to help
with the building. Gives the idea a bit more merit.

~~~
gtrubetskoy
I forgot to mention that in some cases developers aren't even paid, i.e. when
your compensation is (mostly) equity.

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larrysalibra
The problems the author describes aren't limited to just hackathons.
Developer-entrepreneurs are constantly bombarded with requests for free labor
from idea people. Don't code for free!

~~~
caseysoftware
(original author here)

I talked about that one a few years ago too:
[http://caseysoftware.com/blog/startup-risks-for-
developers](http://caseysoftware.com/blog/startup-risks-for-developers)

~~~
larrysalibra
Wow that's a great post! Puts into words the thought process I've gone through
many times before.

Would be even better if your site had some TLS love! ;-)

Thanks for sharing!

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onedev
This is pure clickbait

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spamizbad
In today's world, are there still devs out there coughing up free work to
"idea people"? If you can code, bathe, and are willing to live in a major
metro area you can get paid real money to work on real software for real
business/startups.

Those seeking free work are inadvertently preying on those with imposter
syndrome. Many devs refused free work in the pit of the tech recession
(2002-2003). Expecting that to happen today is laughable.

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brodney
This has nothing to do with Hackathon attendance.

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hmottestad
This isn't limited to hackathons, and to be fair the title is fairly click-
baity.

I remember seeing a page here on hn listing 1001 great ideas. So if you are
out of ideas, then just pick one from there and adapt it to a problem you have
identified.

There are an endless number of ideas you can come up with that combine some of
your domain knowledge with a problem you can identify in your local community.
I was just reading an article about pot holes in Oslo. How about an app that
lets you quickly log a pot hole. Or use the accelerometer to identify pot
holes and warn other users. Or let you plan a bike route to avoid pot holes.

Everyone is capable of coming up with ideas. Just because they come from a
developer doesn't make them any better than coming from a non-developer. Then
again lots of terrible ideas come from both devs and non-devs.

The upside for the developer is that they can evaluate the complexity of an
idea much better than non-devs and can make a nice little demo to show others.

~~~
nickpsecurity
We have a really bad problem with potholes out here. That's a great example as
I could see both bicyclists and motorcyclists possibly making use of that. It
could straight up save their life on a motorcycle. I think a iPhone and
Android compatible mobile app that lets you log one based on location data
would be relatively straight-forward. Someone should take a stab at it.

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throwaway2873
I don't think this is very informed by actually going to hackathons.

A good team project needs a strong vision and someone that coordinates that
vision among team members. Its hard to coordinate that vision AND directly
contribute at the same time in a compressed time period (I've tried to do that
too and its really hard)

There are a lot more people who would want that kind of role than people who
would be good at it/able to attract a team for it. But that doesn't mean that
that role isn't important for team projects.

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jrs235
Reminds me of this parody:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkGMY63FF3Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkGMY63FF3Q)

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bullgod66
Although this article makes a good point, it doesn't offer any practical
suggestions for how to avoid the issue entirely.

~~~
caseysoftware
Original author here.

I did a followup on this post here: [http://clarify.io/blog/howto-be-
successful-at-a-hackathon/](http://clarify.io/blog/howto-be-successful-at-a-
hackathon/) and just linked it from this post.

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svckr
This article pretty clearly summarises my thoughts when I see one of those
"hiring engineer #1 at startup X" posts.

Ideas are a dime a dozen. It's execution that matters (at least when you are
just starting your business) and to these companies hiring engineers and
_actually building something_ seem to be somewhat of an afterthought.

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matthewmacleod
If a non-coding participant in a hackathon has a great idea and a great pitch
then I totally expect that engineers will join in the effort. That's the
point.

I guess yeah, don't be a 'I just need a developer to build exactly what I say'
dick about it, but I don't think I've met many of them.

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FLUX-YOU
Let me guess, you had to sign a legal document to attend this hackathon?

~~~
caseysoftware
(original author here)

No, though I've seen those too: [http://caseysoftware.com/blog/ip-agreements-
at-hackathons](http://caseysoftware.com/blog/ip-agreements-at-hackathons)

~~~
nickpsecurity
Nice writeup. If I.P. is even an issue, it should be _advice_ given to them
about copyright, NDA's, trade secrets, and patent protection. They should be
better equipped to utilize them during and after the hackathon to protect
_their_ stuff. I could see maybe a shrink-wrap agreement like what's built
into, say, Apache license that just CYA's the host against BS. I can see it
because trolls are on the rise in general and might start pulling crap with
hackathons. I can also see an explicit agreement by host giving up any claims
on the I.P. as an assurance for participants.

Truth told, any startup producing something must absolutely control their
intellectual property to achieve best results at deal time. I'd call out any
group undermining that as irresponsible or predatory. I'd probably not go soft
about it as you did, either. Not critiquing you rather than saying an I.P.
transfer agreement at a hackathon is so obviously bad and scheming I'd call
them out without hesitation. If they tried, it would be the shortest libel
lawsuit ever lol.

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omouse
Feels like there needs to be a workshop or teaching section that can funnel
these folks and learn them some Ruby/Rails/Haskell/whatever.

> _If you attend a hackathon with a preconceived notion of recruiting a team
> to build your Vision, on your terms, for your benefit, you’re doing it
> wrong. Instead, you should attend to learn more about the skills and
> understanding you need or that you need to hire for in your team._

alternatively (and perhaps controversially) if you have some cash and can plan
a project out and write down proper specs you can hire someone online for
$15/hr to do the work for you. They get paid and you walk away with some kind
of project implemented.

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blackle
I have to work for these kinds of "idea people" every day, and all the
shifting constraints and scope problems that come with them

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bithead
“I just need a developer to build it.”

"I'll do the thinking around here" \- I've never seen those situations end
well.

