
Fedora 23 Beta released - xd1936
http://fedoramagazine.org/fedora-23-beta-released/
======
mathnode
Long time Fedora user here. Love it. It's so clean and generic. No fuss, no
bullshit.

The workstation build they have worked on for a few releases now was a real
boon.

Just like OSX, I just get on with it, and I don't notice it.

~~~
madez
I thought well about Fedora until I found out that encryption was crippled in
Fedora.

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teh_klev
Citation?

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madez
[https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=319901](https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=319901)

~~~
dijit
Even if you say "it's fixed now" the fact that this problem existed for 6
years. (SIX YEARS! _screams internally_ ) and the handling of it "we'll close
this ticket WONTFIX if you discuss patents here" is so terrible that it's
shaken my perception of RedHat in regards to Fedora.

CentOS was packaged and shipping (I know it wasn't redhat owned, but they are
binary compatible, right?) with the elliptic curve options enabled.

I'm still running Fedora 21 on my machine at home, I've been using Fedup to
upgrade since Fedora 17 and it's still working! but this has caused enough
doubt about their intentions that I may end up replacing my distro.

~~~
ajross
I'm not understanding the "doubt their intentions" bit. You're saying that
Fedora deliberately did this to harm you?

It's just legal fear. It may be justified or not (probably not, as _this
feature is now enabled_ ), but I don't see the reason to invoke malice.

Why the tinfoil hattery? This is hardly the first time Fedora has refused to
ship patent-encumbered software and it won't be the last.

~~~
dijit
The patent is free use- and while I understand why they'd be skittish; this
particular problem has implications about weakening security for non-business
customers, since CentOS (and I infer RHEL) ship with ECDSA enabled.

as an aside: 6 YEARS is an insane lead time to check the patents usability.

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MichaelStubbs
Reminder: if you want to be awesome, please help seed the torrents listed on
[http://torrents.fedoraproject.org/](http://torrents.fedoraproject.org/) \-
just set them up on my Scaleway seedbox.

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Philipp__
I liked Fedora. Since release 21 they are really stepping up their game in
terms of quality. But I can't see myself using it in any foreseeable future.
I'm just enjoying rolling release distros (Arch) too much, that going back to
Fedora would felt like 2008 again...

~~~
bbatha
Fedora has a rolling release channel too:
[https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/Rawhide](https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/Rawhide)

~~~
wcchandler
Rawhide's really only designed for testing, not anything "stable"

~~~
mattdm
Basically true, but if you don't mind the occasional hiccup, you can run it as
your daily system. (I do — but I also keep another laptop handy with the
latest stable release.)

The most likely problems are simply dependencies getting out of sync, which
results in a) updates not applying and b) an uninstallable nightly state — not
actually a broken system.

We're working (slowly — we've got a decade of inertia) on an automated system
to move updates which break this consistency to a "side tag", so they can be
worked on without breaking the main tree. And possibly in the future we can
actually have a similar thing with automated functional testing (but... don't
hold your breath). (Also, shout-out to openSUSE, where they're already doing a
lot of this.)

Of course, as with any "rolling release", you have "oh look, the UI of my
software is different today".

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briarrose
I switched to Fedora after aging out some old Mac hardware only Ubuntu seemed
to support. My primary motivator was the appearance of Amazon on my Unity
desktop and Canonical's increasing desire to go it's own way with technologies
like Mir.

I've been very happy with Fedora and Gnome 3 since the latter hit 3.12 or so.
There are still some edge cases like the ability to snap windows to corners
that I really think should be addressed but otherwise I'm a happy camper.

~~~
0xFFC
You are so naive if you think redhat(or samsung) does not control wayland.
Both player redhat/samusng/intel/etc and canonical wants only what in their
interest ! Sadly in linux community redhat is more vocal than any other player
(because of their money and their long history in linux), and people think
whatever redhat supports it is best and free and better and all these
ridiculous arguments. Which is not , comparing in only license shows me Mir is
GPLv3 (which is best for software freedom) vs MIT License which is just
another mediocre opensource license.

People get manipulated very easily . If you want privacy you should not use
any ubuntu/fedora like distro , use something like tail or fsf approved
distro. But if you don't care about privacy and stil you criticizing canonical
for mir you are just another guy manipulated in linux community about redhat
being cool and canonical being evil.

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blinkingled
Ongoing stability leaves a lot to be desired with Fedora. The utter disregard
for bug reports and general aggression towards pushing untested bleeding edge
broken updates with no equivalent of Ubuntu LTS means I'll stick to Ubuntu for
a long time. I even donated to them recently.

~~~
teh_klev
Fedora is considered the bleeding edge of Redhat distros. Always has been.

If you want stability and long term support then consider CentOS or Scientific
Linux.

That said, the last seven Fedora releases have been totally stable for me both
running inside Virtualbox and on bog standard Dell hardware with nvidia
GeForce GPU's. I guess YMMV depending on how exotic your hardware is, but
that's my general experience with Linux full stop (or any desktop OS for that
matter, Windows too).

~~~
blinkingled
Yeah, I am an old timer when it comes to Linux and so am perfectly aware of it
all. CentOS or derivatives don't support recent hardware, has _way_ too
outdated s/w stacks and so it's something you use on servers, not laptops or
workstations. On the other hand Fedora is so bleeding edge and broken that it
is pointless.

Ubuntu/LTS supports most hardware without all the instability and I was merely
pointing out that there isn't such an option with Fedora and many people find
that a non starter.

~~~
teh_klev
Apologies if I came across as a wee bit patronising didn't mean to, I too am
an old timer and been around the distro block more times than I can remember.

I settled on CentOS and Fedora because I mostly buy Dell kit and by and large
it's always worked with little or no fuss, even brand new laptops which are
often a friction point. CentOS is also our production distro at work, so it
makes sense for me.

That said I've built a brand new machine from components (Core i5 Devil's
Canyon on an Asus Z97-K mobo with an Asus GeForce GTX 750 Ti graphics card -
not exactly bleeding edge, but still fairly new spec -wise for me) so I'm
going to see how well CentOS & Fedora get on with that.

~~~
blinkingled
Yeah, it's better now a days with CentOS 7.x releases than it was with the 6.x
ones when it comes to hardware support - but I still had issues for example
with suspend/resume not working and Virt manager having issues because the
Haswell Xeons weren't tested with Centos 7. Minor issues but for desktop you
prefer something that works great.

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farresito
I see Wayland is getting ready. I wonder when we will see it by default in
most distros.

~~~
xd1936
Wasn't Wayland supposed to be 100% default in Fedora 23?

~~~
baghira
It's been pushed to Fedora 24. Still, supposedly with 23 everything should
work the same (instead on 22 there were still features missing), allowing to
iron out the bugs (well, some of them).

~~~
xd1936
Probably for the best.

~~~
mattdm
Yeah, the plan is to have one full release where we feel like Wayland works
100% as non-default, and then switch to the default the next release. We
aren't at that point yet.

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JustSomeNobody
Was only yesterday trying to get Fedora 22 running in a VM (using Proxmox).
Live "cd" runs fine, but reboot into installed system hangs.

Maybe I'll give Fedora 23 beta a shot.

~~~
craigching
I've run all Fedora's since 18 and including 22 in vbox and have had no
problems.

~~~
JustSomeNobody
Oh, I'm sure it is a problem with my end. I'm still new to using Proxmox, so
I'm sure there's something I am not doing correctly.

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mindcrime
I run Fedora 22 with KDE Plasma on my Toshiba laptop and it's been great. The
only real issue was a couple of the kernel releases did something weird to
Java apps like Eclipse, Gephi, Cytoscape, etc. But the latest one works fine.
Otherwise it just works, with the one small glitch that sometimes when I
reboot, the icons on my desktop get rearranged for no apparent reason. In the
grand scheme of things, I can live with that.

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cozzyd
I've been preupgrading/fedupping since 17 on my current computer with no major
problems (although I usually wait a month or two to upgrade). I think every
release has been an improvement.

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zero-rated
I was a hardcore Red hat/Fedora user for years (the main reason being I prefer
rpm package system over deb) but Linux Mint has won me over.

With Mint, everything works straight out of the box - except for dual
monitors, which was a cinch to set up. Great distro.

~~~
noir_lord
I moved from Mint XFCE to Xubuntu and in the 15.04 release everything works
out the box as well, even the monitor setup with the open source radeon
drivers via xfce4-display-settings -m is one of the best I've used for 3
screens with one rotated.

Absolutely painless all around and XFCE 4.12 is a nice little upgrade just
gentle improvement all around but functionally the same.

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WorldWideWayne
I wish they'd stop copying the klunky OS X ui anti-patterns.

~~~
teh_klev
Well install a different front end, isn't that what the spirit of Linux,
Freedom, etc is all about. They even make it easy for you:

[https://spins.fedoraproject.org/](https://spins.fedoraproject.org/)

~~~
WorldWideWayne
Thanks, but they obviously put all of their fine work into the Gnome front-end
and using a different spin doesn't get you any of that. The number of
customizations that need to be installed and maintained between updates to
make this OS X-like abomination usable is ridiculous.

~~~
teh_klev
Sure, and all the maintainers of all the other front ends such as KDE, xfce,
lxde, compiz etc have been putting all their own fine work into their own
UI's.

Gnome is a product of the Gnome project, it just happens to be the default
desktop shipped by Fedora, and I guess they had to pick one at some point in
the mists of time.

I ran KDE across three versions of Fedora (18,19 and 20), I didn't encounter
any problems each time I upgraded or updated.

I don't see the logic or reasoning behind your complaint.

~~~
WorldWideWayne
You don't understand the logic that - as the default desktop shipped by
Fedora, the Gnome desktop version has things that the others don't?

I've been using Linux since the 90's. Generally, if you don't go with the
default desktop you lose things. Important things like the entire UI for your
package manager. So, to me it's like putting a dingleberry on top of a really
nice cone of ice cream.

