

Ask HN: Please review my startup - Accounting for Google Apps - simonk
http://www.rhinoaccounting.com

======
idoh
Make sure to pay attention to the details in your screenshots. For example:

\- slide 1: there are no expenses

\- slide 2: same price listed for 30 or 3000 boxes of paper

\- slide 4: improper capitalization: "Box Of paper"

The basic idea is that if you can't pay attention to detail on your
screenshots, then maybe that flows through for other parts of the app.

~~~
simonk
Great feedback, I was using some test data that I should of gone over more for
using it in our main screenshots. Fixed a few of the things you said onto the
rest.

------
yannis
Having a very good background in accounts I wanted to see what the application
could do for me. Maybe I missed it but I desperately needed a tour! What is
your unique selling proposition? What is Google Application Engine to a non-
hacker ie., a business owner?

Me thinks it needs work:)

~~~
simonk
Unique selling proposition - For one it's going to be free and for small
businesses that is always a really key thing. The other is that it completes
your move to the "cloud", Google does your email, documents, file hosting,
presentation and we do the accounting for a small business you don't need
anything else.

So trying to market it to the 1 million+ Google Apps users already out there
first that see the benefit of having everything online.

~~~
arihelgason
Keep in mind that free isn't necessarily a great selling point when marketing
business software. Business owners are often reassured by a fee and a
contract.

~~~
simonk
Your right but the small businesses I've talked to even though they are doing
well love the free part. Of course there is tons of things to sell as well
payroll and taxes being the big ones.

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Vindexus
I'd recommend adding a video tour. Right now I don't know exactly what it does
without signing up and toying around with it.

~~~
simonk
Thanks, I'm seeing a common theme now that screenshots aren't enough.

~~~
prawn
I prefer to quickly look through some screenshots than sit through a video.
Definitely use both if you can but I wouldn't have video without a screenshot
alternative.

~~~
simonk
Do you have an example of someone using both well?

~~~
nomatteus
I took a quick look and found a couple I like:

<http://basecamphq.com/tour> \-- Highlights each feature with a screenshot,
with a link to a demo video.

<http://www.freshbooks.com/tour.php> \-- Screenshot only tour, but shows
screenshot for each section of site, then breaks down the features in each
section below.

------
csmeder
IMHO I would change the logo. Make it more professional and less cartoony. You
asking for people to trust you with details that if mis handled could land
them in tax court. Your logo is your first impression. It should leave the
impression of professionalism. On the flip side I have spoke with a lot of
small business owners - many of them are 2 year olds... so maybe I'm wrong :)

~~~
simonk
I'm going to have to disagree I really like him
<http://rhinoaccounting.com/rhino.png>

------
nomatteus
Does this require a Google Apps Premier account, or will it work for the
Standard (free) version as well?

~~~
simonk
It works for both versions.

------
qeorge
Some small things:

\- I'm not sure what you mean by "for Google Apps." Do they provide a platform
like Zoho that you can plug into or does this simply mean you use their Google
login and take advantage of Docs, Gmail, etc? This may be obvious to most, but
not to me.

\- It would be better to use an obviously fake company name, like Acme Paper,
on your sample invoices. The way you have it now (with the Rhino Accounting
logo) could imply that my invoices will all have your logo on them. (This
sounds ridiculous, but we use Quickbooks Online now, and they're quite
overzealous about inserting their branding where it doesn't belong)

\- The second screenshot is confusing. It looks like I'm about to send an
invoice to a company named Paper Supplies for several thousand dollars worth
of paper.

\- On the 3rd screenshot, why is the Businesses tab highlighted (3rd tab) but
the heading says People (2nd tab)?

\- As others have pointed out, there's some inconsistent capitalization. Two
that I see remaining:

    
    
        - "Data is Secure" (homepage)
        - "Lake view Furniture" (1st screenshot)
    

\- Navigation menu in the top right changes from page to page. Click through
the Sign Up flow to see what I mean.

\- On the blog, your headings are overlapping the date line below

\- Also on the blog, you're showing ads in the sidebar. I know its a free
service, but if this isn't a significant source of revenue I would kill it.

\- Also on the blog, you have a "Powered By Google App Engine" logo, but on
another comment here you've said you are not using App Engine. Which is it?

~~~
simonk
Firstly thanks for all the feedback.

1\. The second option.

2\. Sounds ridiculous, but will change this.

3\. Will make better fake company names.

4\. Fixing.

5\. Fixing.

6\. Ah problem between the website and the application servers (we host them
separately).

7\. Fixing.

8\. It actually has been amazing for the traffic we get.

9\. The blog is hosted on the Google App Engine, our actual application is
not.

------
SimonDorfman
I'm interested in trying it out for our group (gumbolabs.org, a non-profit
corporation, a hackerspace). Can you suggest how one would use your site for
these needs?:

-manage monthly dues paid by members (each member is a client?)

\--breakdown of what i mean by "manage": mark each month as paid, be able to
easily see who hasn't paid, be able to mark a whole year as paid.

-track expenses like rent and internet bill

-project into the future so see our financial health thanks!

~~~
simonk
We can do everything except that last one right now.

Make each member a client and make your landlord and internet company vendors.
Make an invoice for each month (you can make them repeat), then make a receipt
when they pay (it can handle them paying half, 3 months, whatever). You can go
into a business or see on the dashboard who hasn't paid.

------
vnorby
Small UI considerations:

\- Top and bottom navs need rollovers, as well as the sign-up button

\- Support page textbox hover effects are awkward and inconsistent, and the
button needs a rollover and a cursor: pointer

\- Same with the signup page

\- Re-order your site nav - Home | Sign Up | Login | Blog | Support

\- Your logo is cool - nice job! - but the "For Google Apps" doesn't fit

\- As far as I could see in the screenies - your quick search box is an ugly
gray. I think white is OK in that situation.

\- Dashboard needs a padding-top, and you could probably slide the rest of the
content over since there's a lot of blank space.

\- You'll want different icons for different types of actions inside the
dashboard. Try reducing the size of the icons and floating the text left OR
keeping the size the same but somehow centering the text underneath them.

Other than these things that I could see, site is looking great!

------
buckwild
I would love to give this a shot, but I'm going to have a hard time tearing
myself away from my excel sheets.

I haven't thoroughly searched your site or signed-up yet, but before I do I
think it is fitting to ask: is it possible to upload excel sheets or connect
it to my google docs spreadsheet?

~~~
simonk
We're still in alpha, but we will be connecting with Google Docs spreadsheets
both for entry and output. Looking at another month for what your looking for.

------
portman
This scratches an itch for me. You had me at "accounting for Google Apps".

However, I tried to sign up with my Google Apps domain. After authenticating
with Google, and redirecting, I received this error:

<https://app.rhinoaccounting.com/gaccount/callback/>?

Internal Server Error A server error prevented this page from being displayed.
The administrator has been notified and will investigate the problem as soon
as possible.

There were a ton of query string parameters that may or may not be helpful in
diagnosing the problem.

~~~
simonk
Can you send me an email simon@rhinocloud.com I've had tons of people signup
today without any problems.

------
jaxn
Just curious, did you do this on AppEngine?

~~~
simonk
No, it's missing a few things we need like SSL on our own domain.

------
nobosh
I'm in the small business space and took a look at your app. What I'm not
getting is, who is your customer?

~~~
blasdel
His customer is either fleeing from your products, or has been using Excel /
Google Docs to avoid using them in the first place.

------
juliend2
"You data is accessible anywhere with internet access."

s/You/Your

I found this typo elsewhere in your website so make sure it's corrected ;) But
apart from that, nice job.

~~~
simonk
Thank you, I found it a couple of times as well. All fixed.

------
cellis
Your startup looks great, but do tell what the test-case startup on your home
page is selling: they've made $94,600 profit from $94,600 in sales!

~~~
simonk
It's a great business, but they steal the paper.

------
patrickmclaren
Forgive me if I missed reading it, but how will you be returning a profit?

~~~
simonk
The accounting product will always be free, we'll make money with add-ons like
payroll, custom reports, and tax filing.

~~~
r7000
Payroll may be difficult to move to the cloud. Like HR it is very personal
data. Reporting is potentially a big winner. Taxes too. Very interesting
project. Good luck!

~~~
simonk
Tons of people already outsource your payroll which is already in the cloud.

~~~
r7000
Where I am most companies (from my experience) log on to their bank or other
service provider using custom software.

------
kapauldo
Most small businesses have no idea what Google Apps is and why they need it.
My advice is, let people try this instantly. Your registration asks for a
domain. Hacker News folks understand this, but 99% of small business will
abandon. I think you are in a _great_ market and I think small business would
gladly pay maybe $30-50/year for this or some kind of volume based payments,
like, say over 5,000 journal entries is this price, and over 10,000 is this,
etc. Remember, anyone can go to Office Max and buy Peachtree for $30. Online,
access anywhere, automatically backed up, sharing with my accountant with one
click, there are great great opportunities here for web/cloud based
accounting. If you appeal to small businesses cheapness this will do great.

I'd eliminate the "Google apps" altogether and just make this work
transparently, FWIW.

Also, I am a Peachtree expert, have a CPA requirements from school (I
abandoned accounting after my first job interview) and I'd be happy to give
you more feedback if that's helpful.

