
Zello: The ‘Cajun Navy’s’ secret weapon for saving lives - curtis
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/innovations/wp/2017/08/31/the-cajun-navys-secret-weapon-for-saving-lives-the-human-voice/
======
danielvf
Here's a long detailed comment from an HN user "embedded" with the rescue
effort:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15153567](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15153567)

~~~
JorgeGT
That was a super interesting read that raised so many important points.
Regarding the mentioned lack of maps of flooded areas, I wonder if volunteers
were aware of the Copernicus EMS service activation [1]. This is a mapping
team that, upon activation, constantly produces free maps of the emergency
(fires, floodings, etc.) from satellite imaginery and radar data.

The maps are constantly updates as soon as new satellite data is available.
The most recent map [2], in fact, was uploaded just 15 minutes prior to this
comment. More importantly, along each map a light vector package of the
relevant GIS data [3] is published, so certainly this GIS data would be useful
to add to an emergency app...

As far as I know, the Hazards Data Distribution System (HDDS) of the USGS [4]
also provides satellite imaginery, but I'm not sure if they also process this
imaginery into freely-distributed, printable maps and vector GIS data.

\---

[1] [http://emergency.copernicus.eu/mapping/list-of-
components/EM...](http://emergency.copernicus.eu/mapping/list-of-
components/EMSR229)

[2]
[http://emergency.copernicus.eu/mapping/system/files/componen...](http://emergency.copernicus.eu/mapping/system/files/components/EMSR229_07LAFAYETTE_01DELINEATION_MAP_v1_300dpi.pdf)

[3]
[http://emergency.copernicus.eu/mapping/download/146034/EMSR2...](http://emergency.copernicus.eu/mapping/download/146034/EMSR229_07LAFAYETTE_01DELINEATION_MAP_v1_vector.zip)

[4] [https://hdds.usgs.gov/](https://hdds.usgs.gov/)

~~~
maxerickson
NOAA gathered some post event aerial imagery:

[https://storms.ngs.noaa.gov/storms/harvey/index.html](https://storms.ngs.noaa.gov/storms/harvey/index.html)

It looks like USGS has most of their activity here:
[https://www.usgs.gov/special-topic/hurricane-
harvey](https://www.usgs.gov/special-topic/hurricane-harvey)

~~~
JorgeGT
Yep, I saw the really neat aerial imagery, and I know that in addition the
USGS ingests enormous quantities of raw satellite imagery
([https://twitter.com/USGS_HDDS](https://twitter.com/USGS_HDDS)), however most
of that data is not freely available to the public, only to certain
organizations.

However, the main problem that I see (although I may be totally wrong!) is
that all those raw data doesn't get condensed into ready-for-print maps of the
affected areas, that can be distributed to volunteers on the field such as
those made by Copernicus.

------
cat199
Sorry washpost, but I'm going to go with 'boats' over some super kewl
internets startup. Preeety sure they would have found another way to
communicate if needed.. another way to get people out, not so much.

~~~
maxerickson
Houston is _huge_ and not all of it was flooded. Coordinating the private
boats to actually get them in the water in areas where people were in trouble
likely made the boats a great deal more effective.

It's also not clear to me how many rescues were done by the people
volunteering their own time and resources vs the various government agencies
(that have a lot more equipment and plans and stuff).

~~~
giardini
maxerickson says: "It's also not clear to me how many rescues were done by the
people volunteering their own time and resources vs the various government
agencies (that have a lot more equipment and plans and stuff)."

Did they indeed have more equipment and plans and stuff? Is there some clear
role that they played and were clearly beneficial in this emergency?
Could/would not almost everything they did that was useful be done by
civilians in their absence?

I'm not impressed. I don't understand why the National Guard(NG) was
necessary. Early on, the government agencies and NG brought trucks and
helicopters; civilians wisely brought boats. [OK, to be fair, later the NG
brought some amphibious vehicles and boats, but we're not taking Omaha beach
here, folks]. Mostly the National Guard and FEMA guys in the field just stood
around their trucks at attention or drove around. The inside people _did_ help
set up shelters, food, etc. The helicopter fellows _did_ some rescuing but I
question the value of that since helicopters are costly to run, dangerous
(they fail frequently with disastrous consequences), cost like heck to
maintain and the same thing can usually be done far more safely with a boat
(or a lifesaving ring).

National Guard might possibly serve in a policing function but New
Orleans/Katrina pretty much showed how that can fail. NG isn't really a
policing agency, it's part of an army. Armies are good at killing people and I
want my Army to be strong in that manner. So let them train and deploy at
that.

Events like hurricane Harvey appear to be mostly minor training operations and
photo ops for the National Guard. "Feel-Good" stuff, in other words. It might
be best for the victims _and_ the NG if the NG didn't participate. And it
would save our tax dollars.

Local law enforcement agencies (the various police and sheriffs' offices in
the Houston area) have plenty of law enforcement officers familiar with local
terrain and culture who are eager to earn overtime pay policing flood areas.
They're also less likely to bust a cap in your ass for stealing gasoline.

"The Secret History of Hurricane Katrina"

[http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2009/08/secret-
histor...](http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2009/08/secret-history-
hurricane-katrina/)

~~~
maxerickson
Nice rant. Do statistics back it up or is it just a feel good government bash?

------
post_break
I was starting my path to get my HAM license while listening with my cheap
chinese radio. Harvey directly hit my area, something like 50 inches of rain.
As the phones started to get unreliable and then NOAA went down, I knew cell
phones in a disaster don't mix well. I kind of wish the testing wasn't as
"difficult" or GMRS was a little less regulated in terms of hardware. It's
kind of a "prepper" thing but more people should learn radio stuff because
cell phones aren't your savior.

~~~
jlgaddis
Getting a ham radio license is extremely easy nowadays. You can easily cram
for it in a day or over a weekend.

When I got my license, I took two written tests and a Morse Code test (at the
same time) and that wasn't even very difficult. It is much, much easier
nowadays.

------
giardini
Some rescuers used plain walkie-talkies which were clearly visible in news
photos. I'd prefer one of those in an emergency, since they don't depend on a
central server.

~~~
dovdovdov
This. Unless the app supports p2p communication which most don't, they can be
rendered useless in a jiffers on service and/or power loss.

A good example could be FireChat, but many users reported intermittent or
flat-out no connection.

------
_pmf_
The secret weapon is compassion and hard physical work, but that's apparently
too alt-right for the WaPo.

------
maxerickson
It sounds like municipalities could use a "311" app or webpage where people
could do things like share their current location with the police and check
for information related to their precise location.

~~~
tomjakubowski
Los Angeles has such a service, including a decent mobile app. It's worked
well enough for me for non-emergencies, like reporting unsafe road conditions
or discarded furniture in alleyways. Don't know if they have special features
for emergency situations.

[https://myla311.lacity.org/](https://myla311.lacity.org/)

~~~
maxerickson
Neat. I guess I'm thinking about some middle ground, where if someone decides
to stay in their home it is useful to them to notify the police that a certain
number of people plan to shelter in place at a certain location. Emergency
situations probably wouldn't benefit any from an app doing the triage vs 911
operators. Maybe the operators would benefit if the app was able to initiate
certain types of relatively urgent reports.

("My house is beginning to flood and I'm concerned about my safety" is a very
different situation than "Someone was just involved in a vehicle collision and
requires an ambulance")

------
Animats
Recovery has progressed to the trash-removal stage. More garbage trucks are
being brought in from other cities. ("Uber for garbage trucks", anybody?)
Debris should be sorted into vegetation, construction and demolition,
appliances, electronics, and hazardous waste. Plus regular household trash.
The different stuff goes to different places.

------
trentmb
Proprietary ham radio?

~~~
maxerickson
They were using it to communicate with people in need of rescue, so not
really. No special equipment, etc.

------
robk
It saddens me that these folks will soon be made into political chattel and
inevitably labeled as racist Trump supporters. Sad state of the country

~~~
krapp
You really should donate that strawman of yours to the rescue efforts. It's
not doing you any good here.

