
Open-source license plate reader - Spooky23
http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/12/new-open-source-license-plate-reader-software-lets-you-make-your-own-hot-list/
======
jlgaddis
I'd like to set up several of these LPRs along the highway that I travel
regularly, compile a listing of license plate numbers of law enforcement
vehicles (such as the unmarked police cruisers that like to travel it, pull
drivers over, and ticket them), have those automatically mapped in a mobile
application that's free for everyone to use, and see just how much law
enforcment would like it then.

What's good for the goose ...

~~~
bigiain
I had this running on Android a while back - turns out that back then (~3
years ago) it was _very_ hard to detect and recognise plates far enough away
to be of any use. I could make it work for a plate in my target set that was
directly in front or behind me, but any further that a few tens of meters away
the performance dropped so badly that it was unusable.

I suspect a much better job could be done now, with a combination of better
cameras in phones, more cpu available to do the processing on newer phones,
and I suspect a multicopter brushless camera gimbal to stabilise/aim the
camera.

(I was very space-limited, since I was testing this on a motorcycle, a car
with a better-than-phone-grade machine in it would make the job simpler.)

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vmarsy
"After all, drivers do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy over their
publicly-visible plate number while driving down public roads."

Random people can see my license plate but they don't know who I am. Today
only people who know my license plate AND happen to see it randomly know I'm
there at this moment, which is a reasonable expectation of privacy for me.

Now if there was a website where you can query a partially complete trip
history of any license plate completely void that privacy. Think about such a
tool in the hands of a paparazzi for instance...

~~~
jMyles
So taking a photo of (or making a memory of having seen) doesn't violate your
privacy, but publishing that information does?

I'm not criticizing you; just clarifying. These are tough questions.

I tend to think that if you're in the clear to document something (ie, it's in
public), then you are in the clear to publish it.

Otherwise, we have a mess of free speech boundaries.

~~~
amagumori
well, your dichotomy is fundamentally flawed imo. it's not "having information
but keeping it private" vs. "having information and publishing it to the
public".

the real issue is "a person who knows me well enough to know my license plate
number can know my location at one point in time if they happen to be in the
immediate area" vs. "all people who can find my license plate number can know
my location at all points in time".

the dichotomy is "everyone in the checkout line can see what i'm buying" vs.
"all people who know my first and last name can view my entire credit card
transaction history".

~~~
VanillaLime
I guess I don't see the distinction. If I see your license plate at the
supermarket and post online that "license plate AAAAAA was seen at Whole Foods
on December 6th", how is that qualitatively different from a license plate
reader scanning your plate and storing that "license plate AAAAAA was at
coordinates XX.XXXX, XX.XXXX at 2015-12-06?"

Unless you want to draw a line between information which is directly observed
by people and information which is collected by machine, this seems like a
difference of degree, not of kind.

~~~
msandford
Quantitative differences eventually become qualitative ones.

Nobody cares about any _one_ particular data point being published; it's the
collection of all of them that's revealing. See the "metadata" debate that's
been going on for a year or two now.

I suspect that most folks would be willing to self-publish their checking
account balance on one random day. But every day for a year, or their whole
lives? Probably not. You have to marry me if you want to have that kind of
information.

------
finnn
Actual software available at
[https://github.com/openalpr/openalpr](https://github.com/openalpr/openalpr)

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saurik
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10650254](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10650254)

^ Link to the actual software from last week and some associated discussion.

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csandreasen
I'm not quite sure how generating more data about people's locations and
putting it in the hands of more people is considered a victory for privacy
advocates.

~~~
Symbiote
Perhaps if it creates debate, and raises awareness that this exists.

It could lead to restrictions on what the government is permitted to do with
the data.

~~~
danso
This is a good point...when discussing the controversies behind surveillance
and privacy, a frequent issue is that most people have no idea what's
possible, even though it should be as clear as day. An obvious example is back
when Facebook's API was more publicly accessible, youropenbook [1]

But there are other things to be mindful of...when publicizing how easy it is
to be surveilled/attacked, how easy is it to for a mischievous person to make
use of that information versus how long would it take to fix? I'd have mixed
feelings about anyone publishing a user-friendly one-button-SWATter, even if
it would most certainly spur some kind of movement to strengthen our emergency
response systems (eventually).

But something that is basically an object detector plus OCR? No doubt that if
many people run this software, and then feed into a system that makes it as
easy (and ubiquitous) as Google to look up any license plate and see instantly
all locations where it has been photographed, we would have a situation that
would make most people a bit unhappy...but without those network effects, the
personal use of this software would seem to be relatively benign, while at the
same time educating people how easy it is to be tracked.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openbook_(website)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openbook_\(website\))

~~~
smartbit
On remote locations collected data could be transmitted into this public LPR
system over free LoRaWAN networks like The Things Network
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10438352](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10438352)

------
Walkman
I just realized the company I work for uses openalpr violating it's license.
What should I do?

~~~
egroat
agpl-3.0

This may provide more clarity:
[http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1960802/can-i-use-
librari...](http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1960802/can-i-use-libraries-
licensed-under-agpl-for-commercial-purposes)

Essentially - if you have modified openalpr then you are probably violating,
if you haven't you probably aren't.

Unless you are a small company with a business model tied tightly around using
a modified openalpr to generate revenue then there is plenty of scope for
complying with the license without damaging the business. If you are then the
company _is_ stealing and I would advise leaving.

Either way you are under a moral, and potentially legal, obligation to bring
the company towards compliance. Advice for you is not to massively rock the
boat - do not use it as a means to hurt your employer (even after leaving) do
not focus too much on it.

IANAL; The way I would approach this:

\- forward the this news article (not the hacker news post) and the openalpr
license page
[http://www.openalpr.com/license.html](http://www.openalpr.com/license.html)
to your legal contact (and manager?). Attach a simple and professional message
along the lines of "Saw an article about some software we use and I am
concerned we may be accidentally violating the license"

\- Do not act like you really care. You were just exercising due diligence in
your job and forwarding on to people that deal with it. Don't rock the boat,
don't defend yourself, don't threaten.

\- Do care. If your company does not respond to you within a few weeks,
threatens you in any way (interrogation), or says they are deliberately
ignoring the license then you need to work on getting a new job. This is
because your employers act exploitatively and without respect to the work of
others (such as yourself). When you come into legal dispute (which happens
more often with these kinds) they are not the ones you want to be fighting. So
find another job (take your time) and leave, do not cite the license as a
reason. Once you are safe notify the developers.

If you are careful, not disruptive, and don't use it to create gossip or push
other agendas most employers will engage legal advice and work towards
resolution thanking you in the process (its way better than being sued!) and
you need not suddenly leave your job over an honest mistake.

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EvanAnderson
This kind of surveillance by government isn't going away, so I'm happy to see
this kind of technology ending up in the hands of the public to help level the
playing field.

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gardnr
I was thinking about creating an this with OpenCV in response to law
enforcement's use and abuse of similar systems. It would be great to provide
instructions on building a cheap, pseudo-anonymous, dash mounted system to
track police vehicles that could be faux-subpoenad for testimony in real
cases. "If you've got nothing to hide" should go in both directions.

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Spooky23
Last time I drove south for vacation we ran into people whom we ran into the
previous year at a roadside restaurant.

That got me thinking about LPRs. Lease some land or the roof of a few
buildings, and you'll build a dossier of regular I-95 travelers. People often
go on vacation at the same time.

Figure out how to buy license plate data from the DMV, and you can market all
sorts of stuff.

~~~
sitkack
airsage

~~~
Spooky23
Wow. Thanks.

I knew that DOT's buy that data for traffic analysis. Never realized that
folks can figure out the comparative average incomes for an average hotel
guest based on that data. (you could see it in one of the screenshots.)

Unbelievable.

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CraigJPerry
This could go two ways -

1\. Govt will get to spend less on licence plate reading cameras

2\. Govt will now be able to get more systems for the same spend

~~~
viraptor
Gov buys these devices from companies. If the company already sells to gov,
why wouldn't they use opensource solution, use fewer developers and pocket the
difference? I'm assuming gov already covers silly markup on big purchases
because of the bureaucracy around it.

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pcunite
Would it be legal for me to make my license plate hidden until the moment my
reverse camera notice a police car behind me?

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kevindeasis
Imagine if you were storing the license plate in a mysql db and someone
attached a sql command at the back of the car that drops the sql db. I would
find that hilarious.

~~~
thejosh
This old image: [http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--
vekHtjBE...](http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--
vekHtjBE--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/18mpenleoksq8jpg.jpg)

~~~
viraptor
Never noticed it before, but the beginning is "ZU0666" which in english
version would be equivalent to something like "EVL666" :)

