
Wine 5.0 - coldpie
https://source.winehq.org/git/wine.git/blob_plain/wine-5.0:/ANNOUNCE
======
idoubtit
I've recently used the wine 5.0RC from Debian testing, and my experience is
mitigated. Once the software runs in Wine, it's impressive how smooth it can
be. Be getting there was a lot work, in my experience.

Playing videos is a mess. winegstreamer relies on the system's gstreamer1.0,
but, even after installing plugin-(good,ugly,bad), I couldn't make it work.
wmv crashed, mpeg1 failed, mpeg4 was garbage. Various tricks are necessary:
enabling devenum and quartz through winecfg, disabling winegstreamer,
converting video formats, installing ffdshow through winetricks or externals
codecs...

The console log was hardly useful when wine crashed. For example, a fatal
error in msvcrt90 was caused by a missing font, but the default log made no
mention of fonts, and even the `warn+all` level of logs was not clear. Fixing
this and other problems took hours, and my final result was far from perfect.
`winetricks` for fonts declares font substitution in Wine's registry, though
Wine's changelog mentions using fontconfig, so I did not understand how fonts
are handled (it's already hard to grasp in Linux, adding a layer won't make it
simpler).

Overall, Wine is impressive, but, for some applications that are not
documented for Wine and not packaged with PlayOnLinux, it may be hard to run
them under Wine.

~~~
teh_klev
> I've recently used the wine 5.0RC from Debian testing, and my experience is
> _mitigated_.

Not sure you really meant "mitigated" here, perhaps "mixed" is what you meant?

~~~
m-p-3
If the parent commenter is francophone it's possible he used the word
"mitigated" because it looked similar to _mitigé_ , which basically translate
to "mixed" in English.

~~~
babayega2
Now that you are mentioning it I clearly see that as a francophone, I had not
realized he/she had written something inconsistent. Thanks. In the meantime I
will be upgrading wine to run Photoshop. Thanks wine team.

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SquareWheel
Looks like a great release. Wine works like magic, and it's a huge boon
towards making Linux a daily driver OS. Big thanks to the developers.

~~~
arminiusreturns
It's good to remember lots of this is because of Codeweavers hard work on the
paid/supported version of Wine. Sometimes I think I'd go sweep floors just to
get a foot in the door there because I align with their business objectives so
much.

If you like what wine has become, don't forget to thank Codweavers!

~~~
m-p-3
Valve also contributes with Proton, I'm not sure how much is upstreamed
though.

~~~
shmerl
They try to upstream whatever is acceptable. Only what can't be upstreamed for
some reason (hacks or something Wine project doesn't want to accept) remains
outside.

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DoofusOfDeath
What's the relationship between Wine development and Valve's Proton?

Is Proton just a fork of Wine? And if so, do patches flow in both directions?

~~~
wheybags
Proton is mostly a fork of wine with some not-yet-merged patches, combined
with preinstalled dxvk (dx11 implemented in vulkan). AFAIK patches flow both
ways.

~~~
kagenouta
> dx11 implemented in Vulkan

Also 9 and 10, FYI. DXVK targeted 10/11 initially, and merged in D9VK (a
separate but similar project covering DX9) about a month ago.

Proton also has a branch that bundles in VKD3D (Vulkan layer for DX12), but
that's still experimental at this point.

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matthberg
Glad to see the graphics support improvements!

A bit off topic, yet does anyone have experience running Adobe CC products
(Illustrator, Photoshop mainly) with Wine? The following page has stats for
older versions, yet if anyone's tried CC2020 I'd love to hear about it.

[https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=vendor&iId...](https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=vendor&iId=12)

~~~
paulcarroty
Tested Photoshop 2020 in rc6, works fine, but hardware acceleration is slow,
better to disable it. No crashes.

~~~
paulcarroty
v5.0 update : OpenGL works fine in X session, still slow in Wayland.

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jwildeboer
Please someone rename Wine 5.0 to LSW - Linux Services for Windows :)

~~~
slantyyz
Isn't Wine also for MacOS too though?

~~~
chabad360
Windows Subsystem for Unix...

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donatj
Any word on support for 32 bit Windows applications on MacOS Catalina?

~~~
JohnTHaller
Last I checked it was in a very early stage, so I wouldn't expect anything
anytime soon. Here's the relevant discussion:
[https://forum.winehq.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=32590](https://forum.winehq.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=32590)

You can downgrade to MacOS with proper 32-bit support, purchase Crossover 19,
or ask Apple to put the libraries back in so tons of software people paid for
continues to work.

~~~
ebg13
> _ask Apple to put the libraries back in so tons of software people paid for
> continues to work_

Reversing course on this would be very against Apple's longstanding m.o. of
breaking backwards compatibility with every new OS version. Looking forward is
how they make the rest of the world advance at the expense of a lot of
bloodied bodies left on the floor.

~~~
selectodude
Fortunately Catalina is still such a disaster for me (I’ve had to downgrade
twice since I stupidly tried to upgrade twice) that Mojave might be my Snow
Leopard v2. I wish Windows ran better in boot camp, I’d jump off macOS
indefinitely if I could.

~~~
amedvednikov
Runs ok for me, what are the issues?

~~~
selectodude
My laptop reliably kernel panics every night.

~~~
ebg13
Mine started doing that too a few weeks ago and I'm on Mojave, so I don't
think it's a Catalina thing.

~~~
selectodude
I don’t know, it never happens on Mojave, reliably happens on Catalina, and
stops when I downgrade back to Mojave. I’m not sure what the actual cause is
but I also have no desire to actually try and find out.

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skrowl
While reading low level API stuff is interesting, give us the meat. Is there a
list of which games did not work in 4.x that do work now, or worked in 4.x but
are improved now?

~~~
brian_herman__
[https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Wine-5.0...](https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Wine-5.0-RC6-Released)
Here is a partial list of fixed games.

~~~
jandrese
> Some of the fixes in Wine 5.0-RC6 are for Brothers In Arms - Hell's Highway,
> Tomb Raider, The Witcher Enhanced Edition, Serious Sam Classic, and other
> games. There are also fixes for applications like 7-Zip, Acrobat Reader, and
> Pale Moon.

That's a really short list. Hopefully there are no regressions on other games
to cancel out the progress.

That said, I've been pretty happy with Proton. More games work than don't,
although if the game you like is kind of obscure the chances of it working do
drop off. Also some games outright check if they're running under Wine and
refuse to run, like Roblox.

~~~
takeda
This is not MAME, it emulates API of an OS that has very large amount of
software it runs. I think the titles listed are ones that developers
concentrated specifically on (also another person below mentioned that it was
only relevant to this RC) to make them work, it's very likely that much more
software was fixed.

~~~
slantyyz
> it emulates API of an OS that has very large amount of software it runs

I thought WINE stood for Wine Is Not an Emulator - has that changed?

~~~
takeda
They may be say that but if it isn't emulating Windows API what is it doing?

IMO (this is just a guess, and might be completely wrong) but I have a feeling
that originally WINE stood for WINdows Emulator.

~~~
msclrhd
Emulation is typically reserved for processor emulation. A NES emulator works
by simulating the CPU, PPU (GPU), bus and other parts of the NES system on the
computer running the emulator. DOSEmu, QEmu, and Amiga Forever work in similar
ways.

When Wine runs an application or game, that program is executing directly on
the computer's CPU, so it is not an emulator.

Think of it like when you have a Qt/KDE or Gtk/Gnome application and run that
on the other platform, or on Windows or Mac. You have the APIs the application
is calling (Qt or Gtk) which are the same regardless of the platform they are
running on; for Wine these are the Windows APIs. The libraries then map the
library APIs to the platform APIs, like how Wine is mapping the Windows APIs
to Linux/Mac/etc.

~~~
takeda
Word emulation means to pretend something else, just because most of the time
emulating hardware is required doesn't mean that the meaning of the word
change.

Since you mentioned Amiga, there was an MacOS emulator called ShapeShifter[1],
it didn't emulate CPU since at the time MacOS used the same CPU as Amiga, but
it still referred itself as an emulator. Actually I remember that MacOS run
even faster on Amiga + ShapeShifter than original Mac with similar hardware.

If you are not convinced, what about FreeBSD capability to emulate Linux[2]
ABI allowing to run linux binaries as if they were native. This also doesn't
emulate the CPU and other hardware. And I suppose it is even closer to what
WINE does.

[1] [https://shapeshifter.cebix.net/](https://shapeshifter.cebix.net/)

[2] [https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/linux-
emulation/free...](https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/linux-
emulation/freebsd-emulation.html)

~~~
Piskvorrr
That's a lost etymological battle, just like we can forever repeat that
"hacker" does not equal "cybercriminal": even though the thesaurus says
otherwise, one narrower definition of the word has taken over.

~~~
takeda
I don't think this is comparable. World emulation exists outside of
technology, and has specific meaning (pretending to be something else).

Also in this case (unlike word "hacker") the word isn't used incorrectly. It's
just more broad than most people think. It's only WINE that claims itself to
not be emulator, despite in early FAQ calling itself Windows Emulator.

------
azinman2
Has anyone tried using AVISynth and various popular plugins like QTGMC with
wine under Linux? I’m starting to put together an automatic pipeline to
capture old VHS tapes and automatically digitize them, and I’m debating the
OS. Windows currently seems to have the best implemented deinterlacing
algorithms, and avisynth is pretty nice for repeatable post processing
pipelines.

~~~
ubercow13
Yes I use AviSynth and AvsPMod all the time under Wine. I use the Avisynth+ 64
bit version and it works great, QTGMC and even SVP with OpenCL acceleration
work fine. I can give you my wine prefix if you want.

However like the sibling says, if you're doing something automated I'd
recommend just using VapourSynth. QTGMC was ported to it ages ago and it will
work better. I only continue to use AviSynth because the AvsPMod interface is
still much better than the VSEdit equivalent, IMO.

~~~
azinman2
Thanks all! Didn’t know about vaporsynth.

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JorgeGT
Has someone managed to install and activate a recent version of Office? I
managed to install but it never discovered/talked to the KMS server of my uni.

~~~
number6
Office 365 with Codeweaver

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MadWombat
Unfortunately, my main reason for keeping Windows is music recording. Until I
can get my DAW and all my plugins working I am stuck in Windows land.

~~~
Forbo
You may not be interested in learning a new DAW, but if you're feeling up to
it Bitwig has native Linux support.

~~~
fulldecent2
I just checked out Bitwig. Apparently it is a for-money app which is not
available in the Mac App Store.

So far, every not-free-open-source app I have seen which is not on the Mac App
Store has caused problems:

\- Spotify: does weird things to start at login and hide it from your system's
start-at-login settings \- Dropbox: phishes you to get your root password \-
Panic Transmit and Coda: exfiltrates your ~/.ssh/id_rsa file while not clearly
documenting this

For 399 USD, I had hoped Bitwig could manage to get its app set up with
sandboxing and into the store.

~~~
dkonofalski
What's this about Transmit? Source for that? I use Transmit religiously and
haven't heard anything about this.

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bovermyer
What happened to Józef Kucia?

~~~
pantalaimon
Died in a caving accident

[https://www.codeweavers.com/about/blogs/jwhite/2019/09/08/a-...](https://www.codeweavers.com/about/blogs/jwhite/2019/09/08/a-tragic-
loss)

~~~
bovermyer
That's very sad. =( But, at least he died doing something he loved.

------
tempodox
This is great news! A big Thank You to the Wine maintainers! Wine lets me run
some non-mainstream compilers and IDEs that would otherwise require Windows.

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shmerl
Congrats to the Wine team!

And don't forget wonderful dxvk project as well, which made DX9-DX11 games
playable with great performance on Linux.

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Yhippa
Pls be compatible with 64-bit Catalina

~~~
gwbas1c
I just run Windows in a VM. Is it worth trying to use Wine instead?

~~~
Yhippa
I wanted to use just Wine but then ended up rigging a VM. Just more steps. I'm
lazy.

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kensai
Can I run natively on Linux Windows 10 games? That's the Wine I want to taste!
:D

~~~
swebs
Most games work nowadays, but there's still some that don't. Check
[https://www.protondb.com](https://www.protondb.com) for a compatibility list.

~~~
papacho
I think he means UWP games.

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lostmsu
I'd love to see WPF running in Wine, since it is open source now.

~~~
coldpie
There is progress being made there right now, follow this bug
[https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24501](https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24501)

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boofgod
I wish they'd fix the game Civilization 3 :,(

~~~
i386
Still my favorite game

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GnarfGnarf
In my experience, the average macOS user is disappointed with apps that run
under Wine.

