
Scientists are suggesting that depression is a result of inflammation - ck425
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/jan/04/depression-allergic-reaction-inflammation-immune-system
======
tasty_freeze
What I'm about to say isn't to deny that inflammation might trigger or
contribute to depression. In fact, anyone who thinks depressed people are just
self-indulgent whiners and that there is no biochemical basis for depression
are simply living in the 1950s.

My wife has clinical depression. To describe depression, as this article does,
as just not wanting to get off the couch is hugely insulting to people with
clinical depression.

My wife isn't alone in wishing that there was another word for "depression" of
the sort arises because your team lost, your dog died, you got passed over for
a promotion. Those are disappointing and can be a problem in the short term.

Clinical depression is not just not wanting to get off the couch. It is a
profound loss of hope, and the inability to even connect with your previous
mental state of what it was like to have hope or find things interesting. The
present appears fucked, and even after racking your brain for some way out,
every path looks even more dismal. Situations in the real world are often
complicated and can be interpreted in more than one way, but to a depressed
person, the most terrible interpretation is evaluated as being a very likely
outcome. And, just like 9/11 conspiracy theorists construct self-consistent
theories by bending facts and through selective filtering, clinically
depressed people often build an elaborate, self-consistent understanding that,
yes, they and their future are completely fucked.

~~~
erikpukinskis
I'm someone who has ranged from what I would call mild to moderate depression.
I've had periods approaching year-scale where I found no particular joy and
struggled to find any hope. I immersed myself in reading and work, and lived a
difficult, one-dimensional life.

I have no idea how that compares to your wife's experience. I'm not
particularly interested in drawing comparisons.

I would like to ask you: why does your wife need a different word? Why not
just say one bout of depression is more severe and one is more mild?

To me it's the same as autism or cancer or any other sickness. Sometimes it's
a challenge, and sometimes it's a wrecking ball through your life. What's
inadequate about using an adjective for that?

~~~
tjradcliffe
The need for a different word comes from a bit of linguistic trickery we tend
to perform.

Because we tend to think of people with "depression" as being "depressed", we
are apt to ask questions, like, "What do you have depression about?"

This question makes no more sense than "What do you have cancer about?"
(thanks to Stephen Fry for the comparison) but because it _does_ make sense to
ask, "What are you depressed about?" it can be difficult to explain this to
people.

Physiologically, it isn't at all clear that "depression" and "being depressed"
are species of the same genus. The latter is a transient, perfectly healthy,
emotional state. The former is a persistent, unhealthy neuro-physical state.

So having less similar words for things of a different kind that are often
confused would be a good thing.

~~~
HCIdivision17
Just for those curious about the Fry quote, I think it _might_ originate from
his blog, himself quoting Alastair Campbell. At the very least there's a nice
reference to it, and I'm happily crawling along the links enjoying it.

[http://www.stephenfry.com/2013/06/24/only-the-
lonely/](http://www.stephenfry.com/2013/06/24/only-the-lonely/)

[http://www.alastaircampbell.org/blog/2013/06/10/response-
to-...](http://www.alastaircampbell.org/blog/2013/06/10/response-to-stephen-
fry-suicide-interview-shows-attitudes-are-slowly-changing/)

------
thevagrant
I absolutely believe depression and inflammation are linked.

I have tested this myself (n=1) as I suffer from an ongoing depression. I also
have a brother who has withdrawn from the world completely and I would
consider that he is highly crippled from depression.

My realisation that this problem is linked to inflammation occured a few years
ago. My depression was at it's worst and I was barely functioning. I am still
not who I was but I'm doing ok.

While I was at my worst, I considered that perhaps my diet contributed to my
poor health.

Through careful testing I discovered that foods with gluten or casein protein
caused me to feel awful. After removing these foods 100% from my diet, there
was an improvement but certainly not a full recovery.

I've always had bad seasonal allergies but I had never considered that my
whole body was inflamed. Strangely, by chance, I found that fexofenadine (an
antihistamine) would lift my depression temporarily after taking it for a
week. If I continued taking it, then slowly the depression came back. My best
explanation is that the signaling process of inflammation dampens the ability
for my brain to think clearly. Since discovering this, I found other things
that helped:

I quit caffeine 100% as it seemed to also have a negative effect for me (when
for years it lifted my depression, now it's clear I am best to do without).

I no longer drink alcohol.

I've worked hard to remove sugar and processed foods.

I've found that daily running will help lift my depression greatly.

Another helpful item I found was licorice tea which I use sparingly. This had
powerful anti-inflammatory properties which I have found useful.

For years I had very bad sleep habits. I've corrected these and always sleep
to a schedule now. Even so, I still rarely wake up feeling rested.

I feel much better than I used to and can get by but still do not feel quite
right. I'm looking into meditation now.

There are a large number of other things (including SSRI's) I've tried/tested
but I can't go into all these right now.

I've been pretty careful in my experimentation, I have been testing this for
years now and know what works for me but I suspect depression has more than a
single cause.

My best advice to everyone is to exercise, eat healthy and try to lead a
balanced lifestyle.

~~~
thevagrant
I just want to add something I forgot to mention. I've also learnt that
isolation is generally something best avoided while depressed. It may feel
counter intuitive when you are in that state of mind but I've had a
spontaneous lift from depression on multiple occasions when I have been in
social situations. To withdraw is not a good idea.

------
madamepsychosis
Anecdata here - as a teen, I had depression. I would take ibuprofen a few
times a day when it got really bad, it helped a lot. It would lift my mood
from dulled, paralysing rumination to merely sad. I think I started doing it
after reading a study like the one in the link. It's a popular theory there
are many different diseases that fall under the label 'depression', which is
why patients often try multiple antidepressants until one works - perhaps this
inflammatory one is just one of them.

~~~
ajcarpy2005
If I may, do you still medicate in the same way, use something different, or
has your depression improved, or what?

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visakanv
The "is" is more of a "might be". But it does seem fairly plausible. (The
inverse seems less likely- that depression has absolutely nothing to do with
the body.) I'm guessing that as with most complex phenomena, depression has a
range of causal factors, and results from an interplay of many things.

It will definitely be great if further research in this area helps to lessen
the stigma around depression and other ailments.

------
DiabloD3
I think this is extremely possible. During my research into Paleo (which has
helped me tremendously, and I suggest anyone who has trouble keeping off the
pounds, performing at work, or focusing in life to take a look at it), I've
considered the possible link myself, but since I'm not a scientist I didn't
have any way of looking into this.

However, one of Paleo's major goals is to eliminating inflammation, and Paleo,
for a large number of people, have lessened or completely eliminated the
symptoms of depression, and I've seriously considered that there has to be
some sort of link.

Edit: Not sure why I'm getting downvoted here. n=1 experimental data may not
be the best thing, but in the absence of studies like the one linked to, its
all we have to go on.

~~~
simplexion
You are getting down-voted because Paleo is not scientific.

~~~
phkahler
>> You are getting down-voted because Paleo is not scientific.

Weather or not the basis of Paleo is sound is not relevant to his point. Not
only does he claim benefits for himself, but notes that others seem to agree
in similar ways.

I'm really getting pissed at the commercial medial establishment for denying
anything that doesn't have clinical trial can be good. Plants or minerals that
have helped people for thousands of years are called "homeopathic" or
"alternative" by real doctors. Now we're seeing studies that claim various
things have no benefit "for people on an already healthy diet" as a footnote.
Yet good old aspirin is a plant derivative, as are some other things. But I
digress. His point is independent of the basis for the diet and hence should
not be downvoted for that.

~~~
tinco
> Plants or minerals that have helped people for thousands of years are called
> "homeopathic" or "alternative" by real doctors.

No, homeopathic medicin is called homeopathic by real doctors. Homeopathy is
not ancient, it was invented in 1796. It also does not involve plants of any
kind.

Plants that do help or seem to help and have been in use for hundreds or
thousands of years are only called alternative when there either has not been
research to show that they are effective, or there has been research that
shows they are not effective.

Alternative does not necessarily mean bad. The word is merely used as a way to
distinguish unproven medicine from scientifically proven medicine.

~~~
dllthomas
While I think the parent comment does not understand what "homeopathic" means,
I don't think it's correct that "[homeopathy] does not involve plants of any
kind." My understanding is that the "active" ingredients are often plant based
- after all, it was cinchona overdose that started this mess. If that's the
case, homeopathic _remedies_ don't contain the plants anymore (through over-
dilution), but _homeopathy_ as a process involves plants.

------
nether
Criticism of an earlier claim for a depression blood test:

[http://blogs.plos.org/mindthebrain/2014/09/25/critique-
claim...](http://blogs.plos.org/mindthebrain/2014/09/25/critique-claims-blood-
test-depression/)

------
coding4all
The reason why the word depression is too general is because depression is a
normal conceptial state that everyone will endure at least once in life. Real,
debilitating, actual depression, is life-long and persist regardless of any
one event. It's not just a function of the mind or an emotional relationship
related to life, but an absence that can only be described as emotionally
detached, sociopathic, and even as an obligation of guilt and doubt simply for
existing in a time you can't accept.

------
joyofdata
To consider "something" as _just_ _in the mind_ v/s being physically rooted is
similar too considering software bugs trivial b/c software can easily be
changed compared to hardware that is broken.

To extend the analogy - asking a depressive patient to just sort it out
mentally is like trying to debug a debugger using that same debugger!?

------
marknutter
I wonder if this doesn't also cause the symptoms associated with fibromyalgia.
I've always been fairly skeptical about Fibromyalgia but try not to be for the
same reasons it's not productive to be skeptical about clinical depression as
s disease, but perhaps they are both linked to inflamation.

------
Spooky23
I had a severe back issue that resulted in a lot of inflammation. Inflammation
that was tested to levels about 5x of the average 90 year old -- when I was
22!

It was pure misery... I would get sick often, get tired, etc. It sucked. When
I was given Vioxx for a few weeks, which made me feel like a million bucks!

------
hristov
This is very interesting. Is there any way one can check if one is suffering
from inflammation?

~~~
WalterSear
You might as well check for your pulse: inflammation isn't a disease, it's a
signaling system used by your body. The problem is that often your body
reaction has potential to causes problems of it's own.

Think of it like the police. For some things (white person is speeding,
deserves a ticket), their reaction can be fine and appropriate. Under other
circumstances (black person selling cigarettes illegally), they are more of a
problem than the one they are intended to solve.

------
sbierwagen
Source article:
[http://www.biolmoodanxietydisord.com/content/4/1/10](http://www.biolmoodanxietydisord.com/content/4/1/10)

------
panhandlr
I like to refer to depression as a cliff that is always one step behind you.

------
manticore_alpha
There's honestly a very simple recipe to combat about 85% of depression. The
other 15% does require SSRI / therapy / etc.

\- Clean up your sleep. \- Clean up your diet. \- Exercise, at full intensity,
for 8-15 minutes a day. Weight training mixed in as well. \- Get sunlight or
supplement with Vitamin D.

Oh, and have great friends. That helps.

~~~
babby
>Diet Can reduce inflammation

>Sleep Reduces inflammation
[http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/11/101114161939.ht...](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/11/101114161939.htm)

>Exercise Reduces inflammation
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22390642](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22390642)

>Vitamin D Reduces inflammation
[http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/02/120223103920.ht...](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/02/120223103920.htm)

We might have a pattern here.

------
alecco
A lot of Guardian stories around, this one from a very suspicious account.

~~~
ck425
As coldtea correctly guessed the Guardian is the main other new source I read.
I don't see what else is suspicious about my account?

~~~
alecco
Your account didn't have activity for ages and has only 1 other submission
from 320 days ago and last comment from 207 days ago. Sorry if this is not the
case.

~~~
ck425
Ah fair enough. I'm more of lurker as I mainly read HN on my phone which
doesn't have an interface for commenting.

------
xacaxulu
"No disease that can be treated by diet should be treated with any other
means."

~Maimonides

