

HN Dynamics - I just do not understand - mayanksinghal
http://halfaclick.blogspot.com/2011/08/hn-dynamics-i-just-do-not-understand.html

======
ColinWright
You need to understand that HN is now huge, and no longer truly a community.
There are people who have internalised the original ethos and take opinions
and arguments on their merit, whether they agree or not, but now there are
people who just down-vote anything they disagree with, even without reading it
carefully, and certainly without thinking about it.

If you express an opinion and get a drive-by down-vote from someone who
happens to disagree with you, or simply dislike your comment (no matter how
well argued) then you can easily get several others pile on in a group-think
down-vote mob.

It happens.

Shrug and move on. You can't buy anything with karma, and there will always be
people who unthinkingly disagree and down-vote without regard for your opinion
or argument.

Move on, contribute positively, and you will gain karma, and perhaps
eventually recognition, reputation and respect.

You can also choose to use this as an opportunity to hone your debating
skills. If you're about to express an unpopular or unexpected opinion, think
not only about the rational aspects, but also the rhetorical and emotional
aspects. Perhaps you can deflect the unthinking while still engaging those
worth engaging.

~~~
mayanksinghal
I have actually grown in a friend circle where if you disagree, you keep on
debating till we arrive on a consensus, or at least understand that ours
points have reduced to personal preferences or till one of us is _really_
hungry. I was probably expecting the same here. People are not as idle as I
am.

And I guess, there is still a lot to learn (and that will be the case
forever). Thank you!

~~~
ColinWright
This is not a circle of friends. Nor is it (any longer) a village. It has
grown to be a city. There are still circles of friends, or the closest thing
to it, but HN is no longer a small community where people come to know and
respect each other's opinions and differences.

It's a city, full of strangers whose faces you might vaguely recognise because
you see them semi-regularly, but who you don't really know. And so people will
down-vote you based on a whim. They don't know you, and never will, so they'll
just express their opinion in the easiest and fastest way possible and move
on.

They don't want to get involved.

------
jcr
<http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html>

    
    
      > Please don't post on HN to ask or tell us something (e.g. to ask us questions about Y Combinator, or to ask or complain about moderation). If you want to say something to us, please send it to info@ycombinator.com. 
    

In your blog, you write:

    
    
      > And I expect explanations, if I am downvoted. Yes, I have checked FAQs; I don't think I am abusing the facility. So, I still don't understand when does the HN community downvote?
    

Obviously, you didn't bother to read the guidelines/FAQ very carefully or you
would not have made this submission to HN.

This submission of yours is meta-discussion (discussion about discussion) and
as such, it is "not interesting" to many. In fact, many consider it outright
annoying. If wasn't in an unusually benevolent mood, I'd flag it.

It _seems_ you know HN well enough to realize that "Ask HN" posts (i.e.
submissions that do not have an external URL) are weighted differently and
drop from the listing quicker than submissions of external URLs. In other
words, from an outside perspective it seems your choice of using an external
blog post with a follow-up submission to HN to ask a question is intentional
manipulation. Whether intentional or not, it either makes you look like an ass
or makes you look like you're too lazy to figure out how HN works.

Your expectation of receiving explanations for down-votes has no basis in
reality. A down-vote means different things to different people. It could
disagreement with your opinion. It could be a hint that you're acting in a way
that makes you seem like an ass. It could be your tone is a bit too sharp. You
may have poor writing skills or rushed your response and failed to write
clearly (happens to me a _lot_ ). You might have failed to consider the
international aspect of this forum or realize civility can be quite different
in different cultures. You might have had a bad day, or wrose, a "bad typing
day" --When I have a bad typing day, my text looks like it was passed through
ROT13.

Though there is no prohibition on humor here on HN, be very, very, very
careful with it. One-liners, memes, and similar humor-only posts are
considered by many to detract from the discussion, and hence are discouraged
by down-votes. The safe bet is to let your sense of humor add spice to your
attempt of adding to the discussion in a positive way. No, I'm not smart
enough to take my own advice, so yes, I can admit to occasionally posting
relevant and original one-liners... and of course, sometimes I pay dearly in
down-votes for letting my sense of humor get the better of me.

Regardless of the reason for any down-vote or up-vote, the fact that someone
took the time to give you feedback, positive or negative, is something you
should always appreciate. Feedback helps you learn what _other people_
consider to be useful, beneficial, and civil/polite _contributions_ to a
discussion.

------
aik
One more point in addition to the other comments here: Whenever topics like
Apple come up (as in your example), a lot of people for whatever reason are
instantly emotionally involved (either that, or it attracts the emotionally
involved ones). I believe the emotional involvement prevents a lot of
productive discussion from happening.

Choose nearly any other topic and I would overall expect better discussion and
less apparent subjectivity.

------
Mz
Last I heard, HN was up to 80K uniques a day. I have no idea how many are
registered members who actually can vote and all that, but the human mind can
only deal with a "tribe" of about 150 people. In most online forums, where
roughly 20% of people actively participate, this means you can sustain the
sense of community up to about 700 members. HN is waaaay beyond that. Flaky
things happen. It took me a while to adjust. I still have bad moments where I
just think some people here are buttheads. But most days it's okay. The good
news is that the scale of the place tends to prevent the cliques and such that
can cause so much trouble in so many online forums.

Take care.

