
Effects of a Year in Ketosis [video] - Kinnard
http://quantifiedself.com/2015/12/effects-year-ketosis-jim-mccarter/
======
myztic
2 weeks in ketosis, all I can say by now (and this only applies to me of
course):

1) It was far easier than I thought it would be (some fatigue 5-6 days in, but
that was quickly gone)

2) I have less meals (usually 2 meals, I am totally fine with that)

3) I have no cravings (the famous midnight snack is no more)

4) No side effects so far, not even constipation which I read some people
have.

5) It requires creativity in the kitchen (or else you'll be sick of eating the
same things again and again).

I supplement with Calcium-Magnesium-Zink and Multi-Vitamins.

For me personally it is easier to loose weight on a ketogenic diet than with a
carbohydrate-rich diet. Especially due to no cravings, that probably due to
more stable blood sugar. That being said you can loose weight with any diet of
course.

Interestingly Ketosis is nothing "new", it has been used for a very long time
in younger patients with regular seizures, as ketosis reduces the amount of
seizures significantly[1]. A lot of interesting research will follow in the
near future. For example whether a ketogenic diet reduces the risk of some
form of cancers (it might "starve cancer cells"), if there are significant
long-term side effects, et cetera...

[1]
[http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD001903...](http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD001903.pub2/abstract)

~~~
ferrari8608
7 months in ketosis, and I can confirm all of your points. I don't bother with
supplements though. Well seasoned meat has everything the body needs.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Go easy on the red meat; research is starting to show it can cause colon
cancer in certain quantities. Use whey or soy protein for some (not all) of
your protein macros.

[https://www.pcrm.org/health/cancer-resources/diet-
cancer/typ...](https://www.pcrm.org/health/cancer-resources/diet-
cancer/type/colon-cancer)

[http://www.health.harvard.edu/family_health_guide/red-
meat-a...](http://www.health.harvard.edu/family_health_guide/red-meat-and-
colon-cancer)

[http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0309174014...](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0309174014000564)

[http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Goodfood/Pages/red-
meat.aspx](http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Goodfood/Pages/red-meat.aspx)

~~~
ferrari8608
I hardly eat any red meat. It's expensive, and there just isn't enough fat in
it. Pork, fowl, and fish are more than enough options for hitting a protein
target.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Do you like eggs? They're a fantastic protein source! Also, fish (I see you
mentioned that) is helpful for omega-3 intake.

~~~
ferrari8608
Ah, I forgot about eggs. Not sure how though; I eat at least one every day.
They're so versatile, and they literally have all of the nutrients required to
build a functional chicken. Nutrient density is an underrated metric.

------
Kinnard
Can I say: people seem surprisingly emotionaly invested in arguments for or
against certain diets. I expected more presentation of data and less ad
hominen from HN on a subject that as far as I knew wasn't the most contentious
our society was facing.

~~~
brandonmenc
Casual observation, but hackers seem to gravitate toward vegetarian and
caveman diets more so than the general population, which is probably why this
thread is so frothy.

~~~
Kinnard
I noticed that too. Myself included. I really wonder why?

Some form of anarcho-primitivism that comes from working so closely with the
most advanced tech?

~~~
brandonmenc
I think because the body becomes something to hack, they're often already
adventurous eaters, and smart people sometimes fall into the trap of believing
their intelligence applies equally well to areas outside their expertise (ex:
the physician who thinks they can pick stocks, or the programmer who thinks
they know more about cholesterol than a cardiologist.)

~~~
Kinnard
Hmmm. So you don't believe in polymathy?

~~~
brandonmenc
I don't believe that people who aren't medical researchers can argue against
the prevailing theory of dietary cholesterol any more than a layperson can go
head to head with climate scientists and argue against global warming.

Ironically, I eat a high cholesterol diet because I believe I'm not a so-
called hyper-responder. But also because my doctor says "keep doing what
you're doing" every time I get a lipid panel.

~~~
Kinnard
Well, isn't it really their data that are going up against each other and not
the people themselves or their credentials? The guy from the video has a PhD
in Medicine and an MD but people without degrees are making the same
arguments.

------
moron4hire
I'm currently a month into a ketogenic diet. I've lost 10 lbs so far (moving
average, not spot measure). I had done it once before, 5 years ago, for a
length of 3 months, where I lost 30 lbs, but then I gained it back over the
course of two years after getting married.

Hydration is extremely important in any diet, but this particular diet on me
seems to especially need it. I get extremely lethargic if I don't get enough
water. I also find I have to force feed myself. To have enough energy and
therefore willpower to avoid carb-loaded food, I generally have to eat 50%
more than I feel like I "want" when first sitting down to a meal. I find
myself getting bored with the food before I'm done.

But it works for me. If I play by the rules, it's the only diet I've been able
to see results and thus stick to.

I've been lazy lately and eating a lot of deli meat, so I need to reduce my
sodium. Otherwise, I eat a lot of ribeye steaks, porkloin steaks, chicken
thighs, eggs (often fried over easy and served on top of the steaks), peppers,
onions, broccoli, spinach, romaine. Small amounts of cheese, beans, and
tomatoes. Lots of spices.

And that's about it. Probably most of the weight loss is the fact I'm not
drinking beer or eating cheeseburgers all the time. An ounce of lean protein
is only about half the calories of an ounce of bread. Does one feel different
than the other in the stomach? I think I'm probably de facto calorie reducing.
But whatever. I don't care what the mechanism is. Leave that to the
researchers. I just care that my knees don't hurt as bad and I have more
energy.

~~~
toomuchtodo
> or eating cheeseburgers all the time.

Cheeseburgers are okay! Just hold the bun and the ketchup. One of my favorite
keto meals is a double cheeseburger with bacon, mustard, extra mayo, lettuce,
and onions from Five Guys or In-N-Out.

~~~
moron4hire
Why go through the bother of deconstructing a meal to receive what is
ultimately a low-quality piece of meat? I love me a burger, but let's face it,
grinding beef is a means to save tough meat. And these chefs who are making
burgers out of Wagu should be considered a criminals.

I keep steaks in the fridge at home. Four minutes a side is a lot faster, less
effort, and tastes better than driving down and pulling apart a Five Guys
burger.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Different strokes! I prefer a quality hamburger over steak unless the cut is
filet mignon (slum it or rock it; no inbetween).

------
ceratopisan
From what I've seen, it doesn't seem that carbohydrates are necessarily bad;
it's that they are so calorically dense that cutting them out and replacing
with something else less intense (like lean meat or relatively healthy fats)
makes a difference.

I've lost 30 pounds while baking as a hobby and reducing meat intake to
accommodate a family member; my carb consumption is way up. This is in part
because I know what I'm eating, in carbohydrate form, and am conscious of the
quality and quantity.

I'm not necessarily recommending that as a diet plan for anyone; I'm
presenting it as a counter to the keto diet items that show now.

------
ioquatix
What is wrong with having a well balanced diet? Some days eat lots of fats,
some days more carbs, etc. Extrema are not good for your health.

~~~
omginternets
The whole question is determining what "normal" (and thus "extreme") actually
is, so statements like "extrema are not good for your health" are just plain
silly in this context.

In fact, it's even sillier than that since extreme bursts of energy (which
most of us call _exercise_ ) are demonstrably very good for your health.

If by "extrema" you meant "excessive things", then your point is tautological.

~~~
ioquatix
Well, I do believe there is such a thing as a "well balanced diet" which
includes food from all groups.

~~~
omginternets
That's nice, but you've said basically nothing.

What are the food groups? What's the right proportion? Does it vary with
age/ethnicity/nurture?

These are precisely the questions being examined, so telling people to eat a
balanced diet without telling them what that actually _is_ , doesn't help.

------
noondip
This presentation conveniently forgot to mention the ill effects, like
cardiovascular disease, diabetes and cancer, resulting as a consequence of
getting "80% of your calories from fat" and just how unsustainable this way of
eating is. I much prefer a high-carb, low-fat vegan diet which has many more
benefits and is overall healthier, more sustainable. It's strange people still
go for low-carb, ketogenic diets given how much research shows its harms (for
example, [http://atkinsexposed.org/](http://atkinsexposed.org/)). It's also
puzzling why one would not prefer the only diet clinically proven to reverse
heart disease, the top cause of death in the US.

~~~
myztic
We know far less about nutrition than we think we do. So if you know about
risks and are careful about it, as far as I am concerned, there is nothing
wrong with trying out various things. Regarding meat though, a lot of it is
panic.

The problem is that it's very hard to conduct proper studies analysing this.
'Observational studies' are useless, because if I take a randomized group of
meat-eaters versus vegans, of course the latter group will be significantly
more healthy. Vegans are most likely more concerned about their health in
general which means less smoking, less alcohol being consumed, healthier
sleep, they buy higher quality food in general, due to lack of choice when out
in public they cook more themselves (they won't stop at a fast food
restaurant), et cetera ... and then there is the Placebo effect, which is very
powerful and should not be under-estimated.

The scientific data is not as clear as one might think, and "nutritionists" in
general are pseudo-scientists at their best since you can find a study for
anything. If not with humans, then with mice, or maybe just some study with
some cells. The same with internet sites by the way. And Atkins strictly
speaking is not the same as the traditional Ketogenic Diet. Regarding books
about nutrition for example, I happen to agree with this reviewer of "The
China Study" (not the original one, you'll see)
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-
reviews/R3UR35AKTEYW43/ref...](http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-
reviews/R3UR35AKTEYW43/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt?ie=UTF8&ASIN=1932100660#R3UR35AKTEYW43)

If anyone wants to find serious information about nutrition, you should search
for meta-studies, for example by the Cochrane Collaboration, and then you
should read the abstract very carefully and not insert your wishful thinking
into it.

~~~
noondip
There is a lot of damning evidence against eating animals and their products,
yet none seems present against eating whole food, high-carb vegan. This much
seems perfectly clear from scientific literature and has been for decades. The
review you agree with has no citations, lacks credibility and makes dubious
claims, like "Researchers still have trouble proving high cholesterol is
associated with heart disease" which are patently false.

~~~
myztic
Well, I understand why the reviewer did not feel the need to make a scientific
rebuttal out of a book review. It was not the reviewer who convinced me by the
way, I had a look at this book myself. And the claims made compared to the
studies cited to support those claims, it's fraudulent, I can't put it any
other way.

I will not be able to convince you. Nutrition for many is such an integral
part of who they are, that it is similar to criticising someone's religion and
they are deep believers. If it works for you, I congratulate you (and I mean
that, honestly). Nor do I want a debate in which everyone cites studies left
and right that he has found on the internet, and then it is my job to go
through dozens of them to find out exactly what they are saying and assess
their methodological quality. I don't have the time right now, nor the
motivation.

Let me just say: Science is hard, studying nutrition is very hard and
especially regarding nutrition, there are so many things to think of and to
take into account. And nutrition is also an individual thing, I doubt there is
a one-size fits all. I was not the one speaking of truths where in reality we
should be more careful about such claims.

~~~
noondip
You can't deny the fact certain foods, like processed meat, surely have a
causal relationship to cancer, probably also heart disease and diabetes. As
I've said before, the evidence against animal products and processed food in
general is damning, but I've yet to find a single case study of someone
getting fat off eating fruit, getting cancer from tofu, or becoming diabetic
from eating too many vegetables.

~~~
hueving
>You can't deny the fact certain foods, like processed meat, surely have a
causal relationship to cancer, probably also heart disease and diabetes

Based on what? Your gut feeling?

>getting cancer from tofu

There aren't case studies of people getting cancer from anything. There are
studies of large population behavioral patterns and comparisons of cancer
rates between patterns. So to check the tofu thing, you need people that
consistently eat tofu compared to people that behave the same in other regards
except for the tofu. That's very difficult because someone who eats tofu is
generally going to have a significantly different diet from someone who
doesn't.

~~~
noondip
[https://www.iarc.fr/en/media-
centre/pr/2015/pdfs/pr240_E.pdf](https://www.iarc.fr/en/media-
centre/pr/2015/pdfs/pr240_E.pdf) is a good starting point.

