
Apple's famous walled garden is starting to show cracks - SirLJ
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/09/apple-walled-garden-starting-to-show-cracks.html
======
chipotle_coyote
This is not about "cracking the walled garden"; we're comparing, well, not
apples and oranges as much as Apples and Netflixes.

This is about laying the groundwork for Apple's new video service -- the
question was always whether they wanted to use it as a way to sell overpriced
TV pucks, like they've traditionally done with their services, or it was going
to be its own thing. they wanted to have everywhere. If you're surprised that
they're choosing "have it everywhere," it's probably because you haven't been
following the mounting tidbits of Hollywood noise about the original content
being produced for Apple. We're not talking about Carpool Karaoke anymore.
We're talking new shows from J.J. Abrams, Steven Spielberg, Oprah Winfrey, Ron
Moore, Damien Chazelle. We're talking about new children's programming with
Peanuts and Sesame Street. Shows starring Jennifer Aniston, Steve Carrell,
Chris Evans, Reese Witherspoon, Aaron Paul, Jason Momoa. A series based on
Isaac Asimov's Foundation.

The point is, there is serious firepower happening here, to the point where
it's pretty clear this is not "service as adjunct to hardware." This is Apple
establishing an actual entertainment division.

~~~
cc439
I'm honestly surprised at how much investment tech giants are pouring into 1st
party tv/movie production and also by the consensus that these ventures are
virtually guaranteed to succeed. From what I've observed over the past decade,
the future of our cultural landscape is going to be that of increasing
fragmentation to the point that there will no longer be a single, dominant
culture for mass media enterprises to appeal to.

The high production value of traditional HollyWood productions are only
sustainable due to their mass cultural appeal. The problem is that mass
culture is in fact, losing mass. These tech giants appear to have misread the
signs of this pending sea change and interpret behaviors such as cord-cutting
among younger generations to mean they are merely moving their consumption
online and that their consumption habits remain otherwise unchanged. One only
has to look at the popularity of services like YouTube and Twitch with Gen Z
to see that this is in fact not the case. Younger millenials and Gen Z as a
whole have completely changed their consumption habits to prefer niche content
made by individual creators (or at most a small group) on the cheap. While
YouTube stars like PewDiePie cannot be said to be "niche" due to the simple
fact that his content captures more eyeballs per year than literally anything
else by an enormous margin, the content itself isn't exactly something that
appeals to a universal audience in the way that a traditional HollyWood
Blockbuster or hit TV show might. Ironically, while Google was the tech giant
best positioned to capture the future (at least in terms of how I see it
developing), they've severly damaged the future potential of YouTube by
playing games with the monwtization and promotion of popular channels while
also making it impossible for new creators to make money before they've built
their channel into a relative behemoth.

While Apple, Amazon, Disney, et al are throwing massive amounts of capital
trying to capture a slice of the streaming service market, they appear to have
missed signs of cultural change which will likely cause that market to
stagnate over the coming decade. I can't say that trying to create a YouTube
competitor is a better idea at this point in time either as that market just
isn't large or stable enough at this point in time to say there is even space
for a second major servicd for small content creators. I can say the future of
entertainment is going to look a lot more like YouTube, where the attention of
tens of millions of eyeballs are spread over tens of thousands of channels,
rather than a handful of sources for traditional mass media productions.

~~~
alexis_fr
I think your analysis is close to correct but missing an important point.
Cultures you’re talking about strongly push progresivism, to the point that
traditional shows look more like hour-long Public Service Announcement than a
show. It’s overcharged with girls who take the lead (even in action movies
that are still mostly watched by boys) as a way to push a cultural change, but
also cluttered with constant disparaging of boys. Not even talking about white
males because they’ve been targetted long enough that they probably don’t even
watch TV/Hollywood anymore, apart from progressist white males who cheer at
people who say whiteness ought to be banned.

The reason people rush on small creators is they’re politically incorrect,
meaning they’re non-PSA shows. People are so upset of being told that they’re
sexist if they don’t date a transsexual, that they’re able to trade the
quality of image/montage/content of traditional TV shows for a content that
doesn’t constantly give lessons or disparage them.

What you call fragmentation will be instantly reunified if a platform ever
succeeds to get rid of the pressure to put PSA-compatible characters under the
customers’ eye. They’re tired of being the product.

~~~
Jordrok
Er...what?

I have no doubt that this may be the reason that you personally have abandoned
mainstream media in favor of more niche sources, but to attribute that
motivation to an entire generation is a huge amount of projection. It has
everything to do with convenience and shifting habits, not a rebellion against
political correctness.

Not everything is about right vs left culture wars.

~~~
majewsky
Exactly. For example:

> The reason people rush on small creators is they’re politically incorrect,
> meaning they’re non-PSA shows.

When I think of small creators [1] that I personally enjoy (e.g. Vsauce's
Michael Stevens, Veritasium's Derek Muller, Game/Film Theory's Matthew
Patrick, Because Science's Kyle Hill), those are all Youtube success stories,
and none of them fit this description even a little bit. Grandparent is just
mistaking his particular bubble for the average.

[1] Those all have subscribers in the millions, but I still consider them
small media startups compared to the scale of traditional media conglomerates.

------
GeekyBear
Giving people on other platforms the tools they need to allow them to purchase
content directly from Apple has been around since the iTunes Store and iPod
first made an appearance for Windows.

It continued with Apple Music on Android, and I don't see any difference in
Apple's strategy here today.

Apple is moving into video subscriptions and wants to make sure the broader
market can purchase their content.

~~~
NicoJuicy
And people who don't have an iDevice, probably won't buy a service from them.
Because when you have an iDevice, you are a first-class civilian.

Nobody wants to be a second-class civilian.

My 2 cents, so a personal opinion. Would appreciate disclosing if you have a
"iDevice" or not, if commenting :). I don't have one now, did buy the 3GS when
it came out.

Edit: as I thought. Downvotes and no comments :). Nobody obviously remembers
iTunes on Windows...

~~~
tenpies
On the idea of a 2nd class civilian:

Would that include level of support? If something goes wrong in any Google
product for me, I am almost certainly SOL. If my scenario doesn't fall under
automated support or is something that requires human logic/cognition, there
is effectively no support. It's either post on Twitter and hope someone from
Google reads it (P = < 0.0000000005) or off to call the credit card company
for a chargeback and pray that Google does not decide to ban my entire account
for it.

If something goes wrong in any Apple product, the support ranges from stellar
to acceptable, regardless of if I'm using Windows or MacOS.

So in that regard, I would rather be a 2nd class Apple civilian than Google's
favourite civilian.

~~~
NicoJuicy
No, in the products directly. Eg. Bad ux for Windows, not allowing innovation
on browsers and force developers creating an app instead of a html site, no
usb-c, ... That's what i mean with "second class civilian" when you don't
have/want everything from Apple.

I actually love the Chromecast integration ( it works with everything) and
Google Docs (any browser), which seems to be more on topic.

There's a big difference between paying the Apple premium and using free/cheap
products of Google though. Didn't had any issues with enterprise support in
the past. Can't say anything about the Pixel line-up.

Don't take my word for it, here's a comment from someone else in this thread:

> I still think the nicest media player I used on Windows post-iTunes 7 was a
> music playing gadget from Google in my Google Desktop sidebar.

------
tech_tuna
What drives me crazy is the Jobs idol worship. Assuming that if he were alive
that Apple wouldn't still have challenges with its platform roadmap.

He might have come up with some other/better ideas but it's not like he didn't
fail and produce plenty of duds too.

I have never been an Apple fan but I'll say this, they generally treat their
customers far better than the competition. You'll never go to an Android or
Microsoft store (the former doesn't really exist I know) and get the kind of
service that Apple offers.

I'll never forget the time I went to the Apple store and returned a used
laptop battery I bought off of Amazon. It was painless and immediate. My wife
loves Apple and for her and for this level of service, I'm happy to continue
supporting her having an iPhone, a Macbook, etc.

~~~
Fnoord
> I have never been an Apple fan but I'll say this, they generally treat their
> customers far better than the competition.

It took a considerable amount of time until Apple admitted design flaws in
iDevices (iPhones and Macbooks recently). Antennagate, Bendgate, Batterygate,
the list goes on. I'm typing this on a MBP where the coating went kaboom.

~~~
askafriend
Apple is always graded on a different curve from the competition and there's a
lot of manufactured crises by the press.

Other products from other manufacturers have extremely serious flaws and
they're routinely ignored because the expectations are simply that much lower.
I'm talking faulty bluetooth chips, processors that slow to a crawl, faulty
camera software, a camera lens placed right next to a fingerprint reader,
shipping a phone with a button that did nothing for 3 months, literally
exploding phones from poor battery design....all of those are things that
absolutely cripple a product and they're quickly glossed over.

Meanwhile Apple's issues are repeated ad nauseam no matter the magnitude just
because Apple is that embedded into pop culture. Even if you don't like Apple,
you definitely have an opinion about them. No one gives a shit if some random
new HTC phone is completely awful by design...but a completely fixable
communications issue like "Batterygate" will get blown out of proportion.

I'm not saying Apple shouldn't be graded on a curve. They should, they're the
leaders in the industry in so many ways and the bar is high. But sometimes the
curve is just comical. Just look at the outrage over the notch.

~~~
Fnoord
Because the followers of Apple (the big Android brands) copy Apple's
innovations such as the notch, the display to body ratio, the removal of 3.5mm
jack, price, capacitive touch, and what have you it is justified that even
those who'd never use an iOS device criticize Apple's innovations. Because
chances are they will find their way into the Android ecosystem.

------
awinder
I feel like apple has definitely matured a bit on the biz side that they’re
effectively making drastic culture change within a few quarters of sales pace
slowdowns, considering the years where they let rot fester the last time the
company was in trouble. Maybe they’ve learned lessons from the past or from
Microsoft’s journey but in either case, it’s promising that they seem to
understand what some of the big deals are when committing to services business
line.

I also think apple has one of the most compelling digital movie purchase
systems so it’ll be interesting to see if this follows the iTunes music biz
model where they expand to more platforms and take over a lot of the revenue.
The system is way more stable at higher quality than competitors like vudu,
and they’re trying to do the right thing by avoiding this push to charge more
than $20 per movie. Also backdating purchases to upgrade 1080p movies to 4K
was a very slick move.

~~~
jordache
> also think apple has one of the most compelling digital movie purchase
> systems

People don't decide which platform to purchase a movie from based on how
compelling the streaming technology is. It needs to be a platform that's
accessible on their device firstly.

~~~
mikhailt
Deleted due to misunderstanding.

~~~
SyneRyder
_> In this case, he didn't say anything about streaming tech_

They did, they commented that iTunes had better streaming than Vudu:

"The system is way more stable at higher quality than competitors like
vudu..."

------
skh
When the ability to make books for iBooks came out I was excited. I would like
to write a math textbook with embedded videos in it. I was about to explore
doing this in iBooks but then I realized that I would be limiting my audience
to those with Apple devices. I abandoned the idea.

I buy digital books from Amazon and not Apple because I know that Amazon will
make its books available on any device. As far as I know iBooks are not
available on non-Apple devices. Why would someone lock themselves in? If they
made their digital services device agnostic I’d buy from them.

~~~
Paianni
Amazon could kill support for any platform at any time if they wish. If I get
any eBooks at all I want them to be in an open standard (e.g ePub) with no DRM
whatsoever.

~~~
EdwardCoffin
And they have a history of doing this. Before they had the Kindle, they sold
Adobe digital editions content, and after they made the switch they retired
the Adobe digital edition license servers. I lost an ebook I desperately
wanted when they did this. They didn't send a warning about the upcoming
retirement either, despite the books being registered to email addresses which
they could easily have sent alerts to.

~~~
nanoseltzer
They probably couldn’t do this to the kindle stuff now at this scale, if
that’s any comfort.

------
zapzupnz
> As Apple struggles with sluggish iPhone sales

Yeah, iPhone sales are below expectations, but Apple's struggling? Hyperbole
remains the tech journalism's go-to, I see. I was hoping tech journalism
might've made cutting that nonsense out part of their New Year's resolutions,
but apparently not.

~~~
Tsubasachan
Apple makes their money from services, not hardware. Declining new iPhone
sales would only be a problem if people left the ecosystem to buy Android
phones.

~~~
jmull
That’s not true. They make less than 20% of their revenue from services. The
iPhone accounts for about 60%.

Here are some nice charts you can look at:
[https://www.macrumors.com/2018/11/01/apple-4q-2018-results/](https://www.macrumors.com/2018/11/01/apple-4q-2018-results/)

------
sjg007
Apple really needs to double down on Siri and take voice interaction to the
next level. Part of this means that apple really needs to get its own
knowledge/sematic web solution.

The new Google interactive radar thing is neat. Apple needs to figure that
out.

That the iphone/ipad can be a bigger compute device with external attachments
could be a bigger development then we think (like the Samsung dock thing)..
People don't buy laptops in the same sense anymore and that will help justify
higher prices.

The Apple upgrade rent/lease program is basically a way to get higher prices
over time.

Apple should have its own MVNO.

~~~
SirHound
The iPhone is so powerful now I don’t understand why they don’t sell a dock
for it that runs a desktop environment. or a laptop enclosure where you drop
it in as the trackpad. I’d be back on the upgrade cycle if they did.

~~~
coldtea
The last iPad Pro allows you to hook it to external screens...

~~~
graeme
They could do it before too: the difference now is a direct usb c connection.
But most apps don't support anything but mirroring. And the resolution only
partly fills the monitor.

Iphones can connect to external displays too, with an adapter. But I don't see
this being influential until there's a framework for the second dosplay, mouse
support etc

~~~
coldtea
>*They could do it before too: the difference now is a direct usb c connection

The main difference to me is that now it's officially sanctioned, and even
mentioned on Apple's material (shown in the keynote, etc).

~~~
graeme
I agree, I think it's a very interesting change for the future, and we may see
why it happened when ios 13 is released.

But as of now, very early days.

------
tyingq
Won't happen, but an Apple iCloud/Maps/etc enabled AOSP phone to compete on
the low end would interesting.

~~~
GeekyBear
Alternately, Microsoft could step in with the various service layers they
developed for Windows Phone.

If they were to open source alternatives to Google's Play Services and give
developers a low or no cost app distribution method, I could imagine them
doing a lot of business hosting instances of those service layers on Azure.

Developers get lower costs and Microsoft picks up more cloud share.

~~~
mikhailt
They already did started that with their Android launcher; Arrow.
([https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.microsoft....](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.microsoft.launcher))

It'a also why they're updating Windows 10 steadily to support integrating with
Android deeply as well.

Not to mention they've working on their Linux subsystem for Windows (WSL),
cross-platform services and apps like VSC, buying Github, Xamarin, etc), and
also porting/improving macOS apps like Visual Studio and Office on macOS.

Microsoft's cash cow is now their services and why they're turning previous
Windows and Office cash cows into subscription services. I suspect they plan
to do an overall Microsoft service; get Windows, Office, OneDrive, and Surface
for a monthly price.

Which is what I suspect Apple will do as well as Google; all of them will do
software+hardware bundle subscription service. Imagine paying 100$ a month to
get latest hardware and software all the time.

------
40acres
Apple's resurgence was built moreso on great hardware than software, due to
Jobs philosophy and the nature of hardware this naturally led to a more
vertical / walled garden approach.

The next "big thing" in tech is trending to be AI powered voice assistants, an
assistant is more of a horizontal play as you'd need it to be compatible with
many different devices and services. With the PC and phone markets mature,
what differentiates Apple from it's competition? Especially when the gulf in
quality is getting smaller and smaller?

------
onetimemanytime
Well, Apple reached $1 Trillion in market cap in 2018. Odds were that the only
way was down...you can't keep growing at 20% qtr to qtr forever, or you'd own
the world.

Add the fact that today's smartphones do 99% of what people want and new ones
are not that much better to justify spending $1000 on them. Add Android
competitors from all over the world and you have a very profitable Apple, but
not one growing like a "startup."

Cheaper iPhone? Maybe, but the $500 iPhone would way worst than a $500 Android
one made by others so...

~~~
Marsymars
> you can't keep growing at 20% qtr to qtr forever, or you'd own the world.

Yeah, a lot of people don't intuitively get this; but any growth above GDP
growth is some part of the pie you're taking away from someone else.

------
error629
We are a long way from the launch of the iPod and Apple has done just fine.
The article reads like you still need an Apple gateway (AirPlay2).

------
mistrial9
for those that remember 90s tech.. it was a Very Big Issue that Apple created
The Apple Store where all software must be purchased (online). Lots of smaller
companies made money selling software for Macintosh in various ways.. because
they ran their own store, you know, the ones that determine and hold the
profit margins on sales? It was not-at-all decided that the one mothership
company should run the only store, and to REQUIRE users to purchase software
there?

The phone ecosystem has since become FAR more dollars per month than Mac
software ever was in its entirety, and the norms of the phone market are not
the norms of the desktop market. Massive centralization is ordinary with the
phones.. meaning centralized control.

There is nothing ordinary about the way citizens and phones and markets are
working .. this is new territory.. without commenting on the article, I take
the headline as a comment on the (highly controversial) Apple Store. Evolving
past that Apple company store is news.

~~~
GeekyBear
Do you remember what a low percentage of the retail price of software the
developers took home in those days?

It was necessary to make a deal to sell through a software distribution
company (for example Ingram Micro) because brick and mortar chains would not
deal with software developers directly, and they took a cut.

The retailer took another cut and required things like unsold inventory be
returnable, cost sharing for newspaper sales circulars in the Sunday paper,
and fees for shelf space.

~~~
justapassenger
It wasn’t THAT much lower, compared to today, if you include things like
advertising costs you need to pay today, to get your app to sell.

It works differently and you have different middle mans, but it’s not that
much different for an average joe.

------
14
I would love to see Apple move towards a truly modular phone. Just broke my
screen. If I could walk into a retail store and get the screen module I would
have done so right away. Now I have to go on eBay order and wait hoping I can
survive with a cracked screen until it arrives. If anyone could do a modular
phone it would be apple.

~~~
jmull
The problem with a modular phone (no matter who makes it) is there are big
design tradeoffs. To increase the modularity, especially from an end-user
perspective, you have to give up some combination of size, cost, power,
battery life, water-resistance or other features.

It just probably isn't worth it, especially for the case of a partially
damaged device where there are probably better solutions... Like a "loaner"
program or 2-hr on-site repair for most repairs. These would increase the cost
of repair (or repair insurance like Apple Care)... that's a tradeoff in its
own right, but at least it doesn't impact your day-to-day usage of the device.

~~~
DonHopkins
The Novation Apple-Cat II was the last truly modular Apple phone. You could
plug in your favorite stylish handset with a standard connector, and easily
replace the screen with any TV set or monitor of your choosing.

[https://apple2history.org/history/ah13/#attachment_1622](https://apple2history.org/history/ah13/#attachment_1622)

~~~
jmull
That’s beautiful.

I just set up a home office and I’m thinking I need to get one of these and
figure out how to set it up as my office phone somehow.

------
newscracker
> The famous Apple walled garden may not be crumbling, but the cracks are
> starting to show.

Bashing Apple never seems to go out of fashion. Companies change strategies
for various reasons, including slowing, stagnating or negative growth,
revenues, profits, etc. Apple is doing what any capitalistic company would do.

There are many things Apple is yet to open up and/or bring to other platforms
(and in all likelihood it will never become the Microsoft of recent times).
Apple didn’t just wake up last month and say, “Oh, by the way, our services
side doesn’t have a defined growth strategy, and now we need all hands on deck
to figure it out.” It already had a strategy for at least a couple of years,
if not longer, to make services a bigger piece of the pie and growing it was a
key focus area.

Any arrangements, in relation to other platforms and devices, that we have
seen announced in the last few weeks or months have likely been in the works
for several months or years.

One can argue how well the services side is picking up...or not. But calling
it as “the walled garden is cracking” is just a negative spin to catch
eyeballs.

~~~
ksec
>Bashing Apple never seems to go out of fashion.

I keep hearing this and people's memories are funny. It wasn't even a fashion
until Steve past away. Apple were the media darling for the during iPhone 2G
to 5 era. It started with iPhone 6s when they had a first YoY iPhone Unit
drop, mostly because iPhone 6 in previous year were doing far too good. Then
the bashing seems to get louder as every iteration after it continues.

------
agumonkey
When hardware slows to sell you ramp up services ??

better make more interesting phones and laptops and accept the end of growth
rather than dilluting your spirit into chasing revenue

------
shmerl
It started crumbling when Apple joined Alliance for Open Media. Since they
were obnoxiously anti free codecs in the past, it was surprising to see Apple
there.

------
resters
I sold my Apple stock about 8 months ago. These are the relevant data points:

\- Apple is a superb company but the stock price is still too high.

\- Apple faces increasing competition from its own older phones that still
work just fine.

\- The older phones work just fine because Apple was caught crippling the
older phones to preserve the life of the $20 battery inside the phone, and
ended up having to simply replace batteries rather than sell new phones. This
should be considered a scandal on par with the Volkswagen emissions scandal. I
suspect the crippling was timed to make the shiny new phone seem all that much
more appealing.

Note that Google recently rolled out Android updates that default a lot of
battery killing AI features to "on" even on older devices, dramatically
reducing their battery life. This may have been an attempt to boost sales of
new phones, or it may be that Google thinks the AI features are so compelling
that they will drive new purchases.

\- Apple has continued its practice of small, steady improvements to iOS, but
has also dramatically increased the price of the phones. I had to chuckle when
I realized I spent $1K on my last iPhone. Wow.

I'd argue that the incredible Moore's law-like growth of mobile technology has
actually held back a lot of innovation, and now that the platforms are more
mature we'll see bigger investment in platform technologies that were risky
before when the target devices two years out were largely unknown.

Apple has still shied away from trying to defend its market share by entering
the low end market. Like Github's decision (far too late, after Bitbucket
nearly caught up) to offer unlimited private repos, Apple will eventually
enter the low end market, but only after its lunch starts to be eaten by
competitors.

What happens when new big budget production apps don't prioritize iPhone by
default as the first platform to launch on? Apple has no strategy to deal with
this, and has neglected its development tooling substantially. This is
basically the position Microsoft was in (and a nearly identical strategy)
right before it took its own nose dive.

Apple should:

\- Release a $199 iPhone as quickly as possible, and a $199 iPad also.

\- Team up with Facebook to make React-Native a first class citizen for iOS
development, even if this is a hostile fork and a blessed version released
directly by Apple.

\- Institute some programs (battery replacement, etc.) that show that the
devices are the only one anyone would ever consider buying.

\- Work with software vendors to create apps that actually do require the
latest hardware features and the newest phones. Most apps do not need these.

\- Make the devices fully waterproof so I can throw mine in the dishwasher
once in a while to get it clean.

\- Create car radios that are "CarPlay Only" that can be retrofitted into
vehicles that didn't ship with one.

\- Release a version of OSX that works (and is supported on) Intel NUC
hardware.

~~~
AnthonyMouse
> Apple has still shied away from trying to defend its market share by
> entering the low end market. Like Github's decision (far too late, after
> Bitbucket nearly caught up) to offer unlimited private repos, Apple will
> eventually enter the low end market, but only after its lunch starts to be
> eaten by competitors.

They have rather a serious problem there actually. There are many people who
buy an expensive iPhone for reasons that would be entirely satisfied by a less
expensive one if it existed. It's hardly worth raising sales by 15% if you
would have to lower overall margins by 50%.

They could produce an intentionally crippled one to avoid cannibalizing their
high margin products, but that would dilute their brand, and anyway who would
buy it over similarly-priced non-crippled Android devices?

There is a place in the market for a luxury brand, but Apple _already_ has
more of the market than luxury brands typically have. It's going to be
difficult for them to do much better when the main thing they could adjust is
the trade off between margins and volumes.

~~~
scarface74
_They have rather a serious problem there actually. There are many people who
buy an expensive iPhone for reasons that would be entirely satisfied by a less
expensive one if it existed. It 's hardly worth raising sales by 15% if you
would have to lower overall margins by 50%._

I could have bought a midrange slower phone in 2015 thst would probably never
get an update and then by another midrange phone 2 years later and buy yet
another midrange phone this year.

Or alternatively, buy a 64 GB iPhone 6s in 2015 for $749 and still be getting
updates and have a phone that is more performant than any midrange Android
phone that was sold over the next three years and faster than high end Android
phones in single core performance.

If history is any guide, the 6s will still be getting updates for two more
years.

As a bonus, my phone isn’t running an operating system made by a privacy
invading ad company.

~~~
AnthonyMouse
If you're worried about updates you can get an Android One phone for $199
which is guaranteed to get updates for at least three years.

And a $749 phone is faster than a $199 one, sure, but it also costs $550 more,
which is the whole issue. That's real money to most people.

> As a bonus, my phone isn’t running an operating system made by a privacy
> invading ad company.

This is kind of a silly complaint when it's open source and anyone can modify
it however they like. Especially with Apple pushing Apple ID and iCloud as if
sending all your data to them is completely different.

If you're legitimately concerned about this then rather than Apple your vendor
is Purism.

~~~
scarface74
_This is kind of a silly complaint when it 's open source and anyone can
modify it however they like._

Most of what makes Android what it is are the closed sourced Google Play
Services and you still require closed source binary drivers.

 _This is kind of a silly complaint when it 's open source and anyone can
modify it however they like. Especially with Apple pushing Apple ID and iCloud
as if sending all your data to them is completely different._

iCloud is easily disabled. But I was shocked to find out when I looked at my
dad’s Google account that Google recorded every time he opened any app on his
phone. Apple doesn’t make money from my user data.

~~~
AnthonyMouse
> Most of what makes Android what it is are the closed sourced Google Play
> Services and you still require closed source binary drivers.

This trade off is inherent. If you want a map service that lets you bring up a
map of your current location without first downloading a map of the entire
world, you have to send your location to the place that sends you the relevant
portion of the map. But you get to choose -- you can use Google Maps, or you
can install one of the OSM apps that actually downloads the whole map and can
operate offline. You can install apps from Google Play or you can install them
some other way.

You can carve Google out of Android, and then it's worse, in much the same way
that iOS is worse without iCloud and the App Store. Except that if you want to
use F-Droid or Amazon instead of Google, on Android you can and on iOS you
can't.

And closed source drivers are lame, but I don't see Apple providing driver
source either, and presumably _the drivers_ are not sending your data to a
third party in any case.

~~~
scarface74
Without iCloud, you just can’t sync between devices and get untethered
backups. But you can still backup your device from your computer.

~~~
AnthonyMouse
And what is the equivalent of F-Droid for iOS? What's the alternative to
Apple's App Store?

------
dplgk
Starting?

------
zitterbewegung
I think it is more likely that Apple's strategy is Embrace, Extend , and
Extinguish. Does anyone else remember when iTunes could sync with a Motorola
phone?

~~~
ceejayoz
Apple's strategy has largely _avoided_ "embrace". Their couple of attempts at
it - letting third parties make Mac clones, and the Motorola ROKR - flopped
spectacularly.

The ROKR was largely a way to build relationships with cell carriers. If you
watch Jobs introducing it, his disgust for it is palpable, and they launched
the iPod Nano alongside it as an additional "fuck this thing".

~~~
CodeWriter23
*and the iPhone was under active development at the time. Jobs additionally played Fadell and the iPod team with this move.

