

Ask HN: how do you deal with legal stuff when you are bootstraping? - rush-tea

When you are bootstraping, how do you deal with the legal stuff such as term of use statement, privacy statement, NDA, etc?  Do you hire someone to draft them for you? Or is there a site with a generic format that you can use?<p>Thank you. :)
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tonyjwang
Unless you have a legal issue unique to your startup, you can always get
general legal advice from mentors and advisors and the HN community - someone
just asked about terms of service, for example. You're probably too small for
anyone to care to sue you.

But if you're raising money, having contracts signed, you really should work
with a lawyer. Asking other startups in your area who they used is a good
first step - you want to find a lawyer who specializes in working with early-
stage companies, who can avoid some of the legal traps, many of which deal
with tax issues associated with stock options and entity conversion. My
personal opinion is that there's no good substitute for a good lawyer - using
forms from LegalZoom just seems like a really bad idea.

I would also suggest getting a lawyer if your startup business model depends
on a fine-tuned understanding of the law. For example, just the other day, a
startup that was copying the structure and pagination of textbooks was sued by
Pearson and other major textbook publishers. They're venture-backed, which
probably means they consulted lawyers and understood the legal risks
beforehand. Before spending tons of resources, I think you might want to know
whether or not what you're doing is illegal, and whether you are prepared to
deal with the legal risks.

Disclaimer: These statements are merely my personal opinions and do not
constitute legal advice.

~~~
rush-tea
Thank you for your opinion. No, I don't have legal issue, yet, with my
startup, but I am within weeks to go beta launch and curious about term of
use, privacy statement. I notice each startup has these on their products
(whether it's website, mobile app, custom program, etc), but I wonder how do
they get it. Do they have someone draft for them? Or is it a generic statement
they can just use temporarily? I am bootstrapping now.

Of course, if my startup gains traction and grows, yes, I will definitely
consult lawyer, but since it's still in its infancy, I wonder if it's really
necessary to get lawyers just for term of service, privacy, NDA statement.

Thank you.

~~~
tstegart
Legal terms cannot be copyrighted, so feel free to take a look around and cut
and paste from some sites you like. Most of the terms can be figured out
pretty easily, its the ones you leave out because you're not a lawyer that
will come back to bite you :)

That being said, it doesn't matter much if you're not raising money, like
others have said. Your chances of ever needing them are very low, they're
mostly for show and do more to make you look like a real company than they do
to protect you. Its like insurance, what start up buys insurance? Your chances
of being sued are so low, it barely registers. Just copy the terms of a site
that's like yours and go with it.

Once you raise money, change your tune and hire a good lawyer. Money needs to
be protected :)

~~~
rush-tea
Thank you. I was thinking of copy and paste from some sites that I have seen
so far. But Mz post said otherwise. This is exactly my concern. Mz post states
that his disclaimer is used by legal permission. Now to me, this seems to
contradict what tstegart and me believe. If legal terms can not be
copyrighted, then why would Mz require someone consent, the author in this
case, to use the disclaimer? I want to avoid this situation if lets say I use
facebook or google term of use word by word and then they sue me?

so now i m confused...

i understand that my project is nothing, and the chance of getting sued is
almost 0 because i have no traction, but if it's legally not right, then i
want to avoid the risk.

thank you for the advise.

~~~
tonyjwang
I don't think tsegart is quite right on this one. Anytime you "express" words
on a page, those words are copyrighted. Expressions are distinguished from
more functional/factual considerations like labels, page numbers, math
equations, etc.. So, my guess is that terms of service would likely be
considered a copyrightable expression, just like software code, novels, and
company manuals, because they are a manifestation of a lawyer's expression.

Assuming you copied Google or Facebook's terms of service without their
permission, you would be in technical violation of their copyright. What they
would sue for is less clear - unlike copying music, a textbook, or someone
else's code, you're not really harming Google or Facebook's revenue through
your copying like you would if you copied a competitor's design. In the
extremely rare .00001% chance that Google's legal team decided to sue you,
you're probably looking at a court-ordered takedown notice.

However, this discussion is largely academic. No one is probably going to sue
you when you're bootstrapping and you can hire a real lawyer to change your
ToS later. There's a good discussion of this on metafilter:

[http://ask.metafilter.com/74055/Can-one-copyright-a-legal-
ag...](http://ask.metafilter.com/74055/Can-one-copyright-a-legal-agreement)

Disclaimer: This is not legal advice, just my personal opinion. If you want to
rely on someone's advice, hire a lawyer.

------
jnorthrop
I don't generally self-promote but I've written a series of blog posts about
handling privacy issues. Check them out. I'd love to hear your feedback on
whether you found them helpful or not.

<http://jnorthrop.me/2012/04/15/privacy-best-practices/>

<http://jnorthrop.me/2012/04/7/preparing-data-breach/>

[http://jnorthrop.me/2012/04/3/getting-your-privacy-policy-
gr...](http://jnorthrop.me/2012/04/3/getting-your-privacy-policy-ground/)

<http://jnorthrop.me/2012/04/22/privacy-and-our-humanity/>

------
rhizome31
This is a great question, which I'd love to know more about myself. You
mentioned legal documents. I'd also love to know more about protecting your
domain/product name from potential trademark issues. Even if your domain name
doesn't infringe anyone's trademark today, how to prevent it from happening in
the future? How to deal with that in a global market? I'm not much worried
about people stealing my ideas, but rather worried about people preventing me
from developing my own idea. Any book recommendation on the subject would be
very welcome.

~~~
tonyjwang
Again, not legal advice, but you can look at how ICANN resolves domain name
disputes:

[http://www.wipo.int/about-
ip/en/studies/publications/domain_...](http://www.wipo.int/about-
ip/en/studies/publications/domain_names.htm)

What factors guide the panelists' decisions?

-Whether the domain name is identical or confusingly similar to a trademark or service mark in which the complainant has rights. -Whether the respondent has any rights or legitimate interests in the domain name (for example, the legitimate offering of goods and services under the same name). -Whether the domain name was registered and is being used in bad faith.

So don't try to use a famous trademark to boost recognition or traffic to your
site and don't try and squat on other people's domains. If you prefer to be
cautious, you can search whether or not the domain name you have (and anything
similar) is already a registered trademark.

------
Mz
FWIW: The legal disclaimer on my health site was adapted with permission from
the legal disclaimer of a published author who has a PHD. He expressed concern
about my legal exposure and had been hauled into court or something himself at
one time for doing similar kinds of work. He advised me to put up a disclaimer
and encouraged me to adapt his and sent me a copy. More recent language on the
newer front page grows in part out of the fact that I worked for an insurance
company for five years, where I received annual training in some of the
federal laws that could potentially impact my health site. I state clearly
that what I do is not medical. It is about eating right and making lifestyle
changes.

I would also recommend being careful, considerate and sensitive. Politeness
and manners help avoid situations that could require a lawyer.

Best of luck.

