
10%? 20%? Apps Are Changing How We Tip - Libertatea
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/style/10-20-apps-are-changing-how-we-tip.html
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ryannevius
I'm a native Californian who has been abroad in Vietnam and Italy for the past
year and a half (where tipping is very, very uncommon). Tipping was just
second-nature before I left the states. However, when I visited over the
summer, I couldn't believe how wrong tipping felt. Wrong to feel social
pressure to tip. Wrong to feel an internal obligation to tip, due to the
(often) low wages paid to restaurant employees. Wrong to feel "cheated" by the
menu price (which is 15-25% below the actual cost of the meal).

I can only hope that tipping ceases to exist in the States someday. Not only
for my own benefit; but for the benefit of most employees who rely on tips to
get through their lives.

~~~
WarDekar
I'm a native Ohioan and have (had?) lived in California for the past 4 years.
Currently I'm abroad in South America, and I have to say I _miss_ tipping.
Why? Because when there isn't an incentive for the staff to give good service,
I often get _terrible_ service. It can take ages to get served, I'll often
request something when food is first brought and don't receive it until I'm
already done with my meal, etc. Part of this is certainly related to the laid
back attitude of Latin America cultures, but if the service employees were
incentivized to give better service they probably wouldn't stand around
talking to each other for 15 minutes while my friends and I are waiting on
another beer.

Now I do hate that in the States there are now tip jars at all sorts of
establishments, but to me restaurants and bars I much prefer tipping culture.

~~~
kalleboo
I live in Japan right now where there is absolutely no tipping (not even
"sometimes tipping" like in Europe) and the service is better than I've
experienced anywhere else, including the US. And here it's not just limited to
restaurants, even in shops you get service with amazing attention to detail
(oh your bag looks heavy, here's a piece of foam to pad the handle...)

~~~
madsravn
Indeed. Tipping or no-tipping is really not a black and white issue. Just
because they do not receive tips does not mean they don't care. For all you
know they could get fired for standing around - like you would be with a
regular office job.

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smt88
There's a very interesting episode of Planet Money about tipping[1].

I was neutral on tipping before listening, and now I'm staunchly against it.
Not only is it discriminatory, it has no effect on the quality of service.

[http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/06/24/137346289/why-
we-t...](http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/06/24/137346289/why-we-tip)

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geoelectric
Like a lot of Americans, I never went out of the country, so really had never
given tipping a second thought besides laughing at Buscemi in Reservoir Dogs.

Having been to Europe and Asia a few times in last few years, I've seen the
other side now. And yeah, what we do is just strange, and I don't think it's
helpful at all. The service still has the usual variation of suck vs. fine.

The thing is that I feel like part of a problem. The truth is that even here I
probably overtip (15-20% on -any- service, taxi, hair, whatever) mostly
because I can't remember our tipping rules on all the various things you're
supposed to tip for, and because trying to do calculations on the fly are a
burden. It's either "the couple of bucks in my pocket" for stuff like carrying
bags or "20% on the final bill" for almost anything else because that's what's
easy to figure out quickly in my head.

Further, I don't carry cash anymore for the most part, so I'm constantly
shorting delivery people, service professionals, all that, because I can't add
the tip to the final bill but don't have currency.

So really wish we'd back off of it. I'd happily just bump up the portion of my
payment on a number of things by 15%+ if that's what it took to compensate
people fairly without my having to try to remember what's right. Then I could
tip for actual exemplary service instead of just feeling mildly confused (or
screwed) all the time.

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izolate
I've thought about this too. Instead of "tip creep", I hoped technology would
have enabled us to emerge from this nonsensical tipping culture (the US is in
dire need of change in this regard).

~~~
edgyswingset
Until we can legislate that servers make at least $7.25/hr nationwide, no
amount of technology is going to move us in that regard.

~~~
Bjartr
Which states don't enforce that employers have to make up the difference if
tips aren't enough to bring a server up to at least minimum wage?

~~~
minot
If they have to make up the difference often enough, they'll just let you go.

~~~
zo1
Perhaps, but the owners still have to pay-up. Otherwise, the failing is in the
enforcement of the laws.

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microcolonel
(I live in Canada)

They can do whatever they want. I go to a variety of places for lunch. Some
places have tips, some places don't.

When they have tips, I tend to tip based on extent and quality of service(I
never tip with percentage). My average tip for a lunch service is about four
dollars, when they go above and beyond, are especially prompt and helpful, or
respond to my emotional condition, I tend to tip higher.

Lunch is my only daily meal, and service at lunch is just as important as the
food in my opinion, whether I'm taking somebody along and want to be taken
care of, or just trying to eat something that will relieve stress from work.

I don't experience any pressure while tipping; I just add my few bucks, and if
something special has happened, I add a couple more; I don't bother myself
with percentages, except maybe to keep above the bare minimum 20% gratuity so
I don't get any funny looks out the door.

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marak830
To me it sounds (from comments, not article), that the reliance on tips is
because ibstead of paying the wait staff a proper wage, they can set their
menu/advertised price lower and make assumptions.

Now as someone who not obly worked in hospitality but also ran a few
restaurants, this is an insane premise. How the hell could you rely in
professional wait staff (not students but actual trained and comitted staff),
if you cant guarantee them a good wage to vegin with.

Tipping is supposeto show your appreciated for exceptional service, to force
your staff to assume its a guaranteed alotment is bullshit.

Also, im in japan now (out of hospitality yay), i get exceptional service
everywhrre with no expectation of tips, and damned if i dont tip a hell of a
lot more here.

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zkhalique
Just off the top of my head ... why not precalculate the tip for the majority
of people who don't to fiddle with it, and simply let people change the tip if
they really want, for those times when the service was atrocious?

~~~
jonlucc
I thought Square did this, but it must be one of the other systems. There are
buttons for 15%, 18%, and 20% and a custom button that allows you to enter an
arbitrary amount.

~~~
zkhalique
Right, but instead of those buttons, making you choose, the default would just
be 15% (or whatever is standard for that type of service) and the other choice
would be to "tweak it"

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Huud1e
Very interesting indeed, Libertatea.

~~~
smt88
In case you're wondering, you're being downvoted because you're not supposed
to say things like "this is interesting" or "I agree" on HN. Comments are
supposed to have content to them. Otherwise they should just be in the form of
upvotes.

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zo1
Interesting, hope this topic/discussion picks up steam here on HN. I'm really
curious to see what people have to say about tipping in general.

#Edit. More info why I'd like this to be discussed on HN.

I say this, as I've discussed this topic many times with many individuals
online. Frankly, most of them are very very hostile. I've received death
threats from servers for suggesting the remove of the tipping culture. To be
fair, it was on Facebook, but at the same time that is a bit disturbing. These
are individuals making credible, violent, disgusting threats because they
can't consider alternate views on something they are single-minded on.

I do generally find that HN discussion is quite a bit better. If not for the
fact that downvoting is much more strict, then for the quality of
ideas/insights that people here have. Sometimes, quite different to what I've
been exposed to before. +1 for that.

~~~
smt88
In case you're wondering, you're being downvoted because you're not supposed
to say things like "this is interesting" or "I agree" on HN. Comments are
supposed to have content to them. Otherwise they should just be in the form of
upvotes.

Check out the link I posted elsewhere to the Planet Money episode on tipping.

~~~
collyw
got to love HN's unwritten rules.

~~~
fennecfoxen
who's unwritten?
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

~~~
smt88
If this is a rule, it actually is unwritten. There's nothing in the guidelines
that says to upvote instead of writing "I agree" comments.

However, this is a de facto rule because people will downvote such comments,
so I thought it was worth warning people about.

