
A $47B Emergency-Response Network That’s Already Obsolete - prostoalex
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/09/the-47-billion-network-thats-already-obsolete/492764/?single_page=true
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ec109685
This article is from 2016. AT&T already won and California was last state to
opt in: [http://urgentcomm.com/ntiafirstnet/it-s-unanimous-
california...](http://urgentcomm.com/ntiafirstnet/it-s-unanimous-california-
makes-firstnet-opt-decision-expresses-reservations)

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exikyut
Thanks, this has been up for 8 hours and it still doesn't have (2016) after it

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Aloha
I think the supposition of this article is that dedicated push-to-talk
infrastructure is obsolete - something I feel is demonstrably false.

PTT only networks are much easier, and less infrastructure heavy to keep
operational, they also have significantly lower backhaul requirements. In
addition, they have better overall reliability during disaster situations.

Motorola (alone, they are one of 5 big players in the industry) ships
something like 500m+ in two way radio infrastructure yearly, and its not
really a shrinking market.

So yes, FirstNet is a boondoggle, and one of those 9/11 projects that should
die or go a different direction, to a great extent the interoperability they
offer is fantastic, if anyone could ever use it - but two way radio? not dead,
and still very relevant for certain industries and services.

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foota
Just curious, why are ptt networks less infrastructure heavy?

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bkor
> ptt networks less infrastructure heavy

That's often walkie talkies, no? Those are pretty handy in first responder
situations.

Nation wide networks used in Netherlands:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P2000_(network)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P2000_\(network\))
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrestrial_Trunked_Radio#cite...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrestrial_Trunked_Radio#cite_note-32)

P2000 is basically to receive a text. The C2000/TTR is encrypted, meant for
Policy/Ambulance/Fire departments and apparently used by many countries in the
world. It'll work even when other networks are down. Apparently fully used
since 2007.

I'm a first responder for my building, it used to be that the C2000 system
(simply stated: "professional walkie walkies") would be difficult to use in my
building (couldn't go through concrete). We'd lend them our walkie talkies
(they work much better as we have a support transmitter within the building).
Over the last few years they seem to have improved C2000, nowadays they don't
need ours for most areas.

The various problems with the C2000 system are explained in Dutch (!) at
[https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/C2000#Problemen](https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/C2000#Problemen).

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sjmulder
English summary:

\- Connectivity can be lost when entering a building (e.g. by firemen). For
this reason, direct analogue radio connections are often used.

\- The system can't handle the load during large calamities.

The ministry of home affairs is investigating.

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justinjlynn
> The system can't handle the load during large calamities.

For a system that's supposed to be used during one I'd say that's a rather
large problem.

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synaesthesisx
How does something like this actually cost $50B?

Is there any transparency/breakdown that's available? I'm just confused as to
what the money was actually spent on...

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adventured
> According to the GAO, estimates of its cost range from $12 billion to $47
> billion

I understand the desire to really drill home the waste involved, however when
the cost range is $12 to $47 billion and the article chooses to put $47
billion in the headline, it's at the edge of clickbait.

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icelancer
There is the definite possibility that it actually costs something like $69
billion, in fairness.

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cesarb
That issue (communication between multiple first-responder branches) probably
isn't USA-specific. How is it solved in other countries?

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johansch
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrestrial_Trunked_Radio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrestrial_Trunked_Radio)

It's getting outdated though. In Sweden there's talk about a nation-wide LTE
network specifically for first responders. Cheaper and better, I presume.

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AngeloAnolin
Why not let the US Digital Services be asked to step in for this project? They
could either save the project or abandon what has been done and start afresh
with a better and leaner approach. Or they could make an assessment whether
the solution being envisioned is still relevant to the current situation.

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walshemj
some how I think the US DS is not resourced to do this sort of project it's
not a simple website. All they could do is assuming they have enough senior
resource from telecoms as project manage some one else doing it.

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AngeloAnolin
They were not resourced initially when they had the idea of tackling some of
the government's most expensive and daunting challenges. Maybe what I am
saying here is that, given their solid objective and passion of making a
difference and turning things around, they could do the same to this project
as well. They have processes in place which could help with selecting people
and technology that could best resolve the job at hand and at the same time,
cost less whilst maintaining a high degree of quality.

