
Notre-Dame’s Toxic Fallout - tysone
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/09/14/world/europe/notre-dame-fire-lead.html
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nugget
Lead is one of the most toxic materials that children can be exposed to and
the effects last a lifetime. My concern over lead exposure with young children
has led to me buying almost nothing from China any more -- the supply chain
and manufacturing process there is riddled with examples of lead,
formaldehyde, and other toxic materials being used as cheap substitutes. What
one of the mayors says in the article is probably true, that some of the lead
hot spots around Paris were not caused by the fire but exist from other
sources.

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elorant
Are there particular product categories which we should avoid mostly, or does
it apply to anything and everything coming out of China?

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nugget
Anything and everything, unfortunately.

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elorant
Just to be clear, everything from Chinese origin or everything manufactured in
China? Because in the case of the latter it seems that pretty much everything
these days is manufactured there.

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nugget
>everything from Chinese origin or everything manufactured in China?

Not sure what the difference is between these two.

It's not that every item from China is tainted, it's that the supply chain
isn't as trusted and that leads to a higher rate of contaminated products.

>Because in the case of the latter it seems that pretty much everything these
days is manufactured there.

Yes, it's a real pain to source alternative products. I used to love the
convenience and price of Alibaba, Amazon, and the other front ends for the
modern miracle that is Shenzhen. But once I started to read up more on the
science of toxic chemicals behind it, it radically changed my view and it's
hard to go back.

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Legogris
Dang. I both live and work within 10 minutes walk from Notre Dame and mostly
don't leave the area on a daily basis. I wonder if there is any possibility
this is a contributing factor in my recent deteriorating health.

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ansible
You can ask for a blood test that measures your lead level in your blood.

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nosianu2
Probably also include a hair test. Blood shows what's going on _right now_ ,
hair includes the last couple of weeks _(with some caveats, which the doctor
should be aware of so no need to discuss it here, for example hair does not
automatically show up in hair proportionally to what was in blood during the
time - too many transport phenomena in the body other than mere diffusion)_.

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cameldrv
Seems a overblown. For all of the pages of reporting, they only cite two blood
test results of kids, and they were both under the 2.5 ug/dL guideline. Many,
many children test over this level in the U.S., and in the eighties a large
percentage of kids tested over 10.

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whatshisface
There's no safe level of lead, the symptoms start at nothing at 0.0ug/dL and
increase proportionally.

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wtvanhest
Yes, but, everyone is exposed to varying degrees and its not uncommon for kids
to have above that level.

You can get results for san francisco tests for example. The majority of cases
are from lead paint exposure which is very dangerous

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whatshisface
It's not uncommon to have heart attacks, does that mean there is a safe level
of cardiac arrest?

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aorth
Notre-Dame was on an island in the middle of the river Seine. It's strange
that the article doesn't mention "river" or "water" even once...

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kakwa_
Well, the Seine is already a bit of desperate case.

Jacque Chirac (mayor of Paris at the time) famously said in 1988 "I would swim
in the Seine within 3 years, with witnesses, to prove the Seine has become a
clean river" to illustrate his commitment to clean the Seine.

Spoiler alert, he never swam in it.

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kebman
Um, I know it's grim news, but... pretty amazing 3D data illustration using
Google Earth!

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zeroimpl
I'm not a fan of how they hacked the scrollbar though

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bound008
I'm never a fan of this, but on this page the visualization was so compelling
I didn't even notice. That's a good bar to set for anyone thinking of stealing
our scrollbars. I think a component of it, is that the part that hijacked the
scroll bar is really the money shot of the article.

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ngcc_hk
The concern should be another angle as I tried to post another thread. More
about the importance of people and media. Whilst anarchies is not useful, all
gov cannot be trusted totally.

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molteanu
Why were there over 400 tons of lead on the roof?! (honest question)

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tsomctl
To keep the water out. The roof covering was made out of lead, instead of
copper or wood shingles.

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lisper
This. Lead is cheap, easy to work, and does not corrode. It’s actually a
pretty neat material. Damn shame that it’s poisonous.

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molteanu
And it is being used on an industrial scale in a place visited by 16 million
people a year?!

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qball
Yes. If you recall your history classes, materials science has always been as
advanced as it is today. Architects and construction teams in the Middle Ages
had easy access to fiberglass insulation, polymer vapor barriers, and modern
fabrics, but simply chose not to use them, possibly for aesthetic reasons.

In all seriousness, lead (much like asbestos) is a perfectly fine building
material so long as you aren't trying to ingest or inhale it. Permanent
waterproofing is easy with a material that melts at temperatures possible with
fires even prehistoric man was capable of building (it doesn't deteriorate
like tar eventually does). They only become dangerous when that's a
possibility, such as when paints made from it are deteriorating, when
demolition or renovation of a structure is occurring, or in the case of Notre-
Dame, when the structure is on fire.

It's unlikely that the new roof on the cathedral is going to be rebuilt using
these ancient techniques- but if old construction isn't broken, there's no
reason to actively tear it down.

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droithomme
This will have long term serious problems that will then be blamed on previous
administrations who didn't know any better. But they know better now.

All the kids in the fallout zone need to be tested for lead levels. Those with
dangerously high levels (there is no doubt there will be many based on the
environmental levels reported in the article) need to be relocated to areas
with lower lead levels. Those with close to high levels need frequent retests,
at least every 3 months.

