
Im Not a Programmer - dijit
https://heatherbooker.github.io/blog/2019/12/24/im-not-a-programmer.html
======
mikekchar
I'm not quite sure how I'm meant to feel about this. Some of the things on
this list are truly trivial: I don't care if you use a mouse. _I_ don't like
to use one, but it's not because I'm a programmer.

Other things on the list are kind of unfortunate. "I don't know how to use
awk". I mean, that's totally fine. Lots of people don't. I kind of feel like
this is a celebration of ignorance. You don't _have_ to know awk to be a
programmer, but awk is useful (even if you aren't a programmer)!

I'm not sure if the author is working through their own imposter syndrome and
trying to feel better about themself, or if they are admonishing others who
value things that they don't value. I mean it's both OK that you don't know
CSS as a front end developer and OK if you think that CSS is important to know
as a front end developer (it really is, by the way ;-) ). You don't go from
knowing nothing to knowing everything in a day. Where you are is where you are
and there is nothing to apologise for. However it's important not to plant
yourself there and say "I'm alright Jack. I don't have to go any further. All
this other stuff is not important", because some of it is (or can be, if you
want it to be).

Edit: grammar and clarity

~~~
BossingAround
I couldn't have summarized it better... On one hand, don't feel imposter
syndrome. You're paid, you can produce output, good!

We definitely shouldn't be ashamed of ignorance, but celebrating it is not
gonna get us anywhere either. Analyze knowledge gaps, study, apply
knowledge... Rinse and repeat.

I'm also kind of ambivalent about the post. Wish the author all the best
though.

------
chrisdirkis
Honestly, the negativity in the comments so far has me flummoxed. What I see
is a person, in a development role, posting about how they have been made to
feel inadequate or unsuitable for their role, because they don't know things
that aren't necessary for said role.

If someone is succeeding, who cares whether they know Awk? If someone is doing
the job and getting paid, who is anyone to make them feel inadequate, call
them whiny, etc. What do we gain, both as people and as a community, for
snubbing people who post things like this?

Note that I didn't mention whether those things would make them better at
their role. They probably would, but it matters less than the bulk of the
comments seem to think.

~~~
BossingAround
> If someone is succeeding, who cares whether they know Awk?

I'd 100% agree with this (and the following) statements. I think what rubs
commenters the wrong way is that the article seems to be almost celebrating
the ignorance.

It is of course a pure conjecture on the readers' side, but I think that's
mostly what people object to. Not knowing things is OK. Being proud that you
get paid despite not knowing things is not accepted in a subculture that
prides itself on self-improvement.

------
dusted
I can't understand why this upsets me.. I mean, this is obviously a person not
interested in computers, and, that's really okay. But somehow, I'm left upset,
maybe by the choice of ignorance? Maybe I feel offended by this person not
caring how to learn the basics..

And, that's entirely my problem.. If they're fine with it, then that's all
that should matter.

Damn, I was 13 years old when I ran my first webserver, I started by
installing the OS and configuring Apache (got a lot of help on IRC) and I
remember having to find a place, physically, to put it.. I was eventually
allowed to place it in a room in the school, they arranged a static IP, and
the trade was that they could also use it for hosting some image files.. I got
my first domain back then, had to fax forms, on paper, with signatures, in
ink, to hostmaster :D

Anyway, I guess, I'm offended because the things this person does not find
interesting enough to learn, is the stuff that got me hooked.. Even in recent
times, when, a few years ago, I discovered the awesomeness that is JQ.. And
this person, they've not bothered to learn it, even though it's so damn good
and can do so much for them... Maybe I'm annoyed on their behalf.. But I've no
right.

If they're happy, that's all that matters, and all I can do is rant, and wish
the world was more like I wanted it. ;-)

Maybe I'm upset because this person tells me that they don't care enough to
learn all the things I think are cool and that people should learn, because I
like them.. My problem, entirely.

~~~
ulucs
They have programming as a career first while you have it as a hobby first. I
wouldn't consider them wrong for doing this, but your annoyance at someone
using your passion as a tool for their ends also is not unfounded.

~~~
dusted
That's actually a good point, I didn't think about that, for me, it is my
hobby, my passion and my career, and it does just rub me, when people are
doing it without the passion part. Again, I can't defend that emotion, it just
does. It's like seeing this thing you care about, not receiving the care you
feel it deserve I guess.

------
dpc_pw
I think this is a ... bad take? Ambiguous and confusing(ed)? I mean - I guess
there are people who believe in some stereotype of "real programmers", but
this post kind of buys into this stereotype by arguing with it, and then does
it in a way to comes of as ... lazy and envious? In this post - some points
are straw-man/stereotype and some seem ... to deny worthiness of in-depth
expertise, skill and experience.

I'd compare with ...

I like playing soccer, but I'm nowhere near skills of even minor-minor-league
or even a skilled amateur, and there might be people that would totally make
fun of me if I tried to describe myself as "a soccer player", but it doesn't
make me bitter, or discouraged. I just do what I can, it works for me and I
feel OK about it. I can still appreciate skills of people better than me and
don't deny that they are useful and great to have, and in a way I wish I could
have them, but I know it's just will not happen, not because I'm somehow worse
human being, but because I have invested my time into different things and my
priorities/predispositions are different.

It's unfortunate that I've found it on HN - because it will get a lot of
negative publicity, and it seems the author might need actually some positive
encouragement?

------
HomeDeLaPot
Maybe this is just one of the majority of journal entries in the world that
aren't particularly interesting. The author was feeling insecure about some
things and decided to write them down. It just so happens her journal is
public. There wasn't a lot of thought or research put into this, it's just a
feelings dump that reflects her mood at the time. Maybe she's a capable
developer that just feels disconnected from the rest of the huge world of
software and is hard on herself sometimes. Maybe she does like learning new
things and getting better at her job. Maybe she has other interests outside of
development, and that's fine too. Her company pays her to stick around and do
work, and it's been working out for them. Overall, I think some of the
comments are overly harsh and judgmental -- not that they're not welcome, but
let's be thoughtful.

------
rvz
_Define_ 'Real programmers™'. I couldn't care less of what 'Real programmers™'
use. Use what ever you want to get the work done quicker, to generate more
cash that pays everyone's bills on time. So to me, whatever these Real
programmers™ use is irrelevant unless it makes the most cash.

But if __your __choice of experimental tools on your workstation are affecting
the quality of the work negatively or if you 're too busy for weeks
configuring your dotfiles to work with that shiny editor, then I would just
give you a MacBook Pro or just get rid of you.

Nobody got fired for buying Apple computers.

------
leommoore
In fairness, we are all just learning. I've been at this a long time and a lot
of this comes down to personal choices and using the right tools to be
productive in your environment.

Mouse or no mouse? your call. RTFM? your call. Plan or no plan, your call
(although if someone else is paying the bills then this may not be your
choice).

There is no right or wrong way, its whatever helps you be productive. If we
all followed everyone else we would still be flicking switches on an Altair.
So if everyone around you wants to wear a hat while they code, that's cool but
it does not mean you need to. Fashion is for fools.

------
MarcellusDrum
I think this is exactly the difference between a programmer and a software
engineer. A (successful) software engineer _should_ understand how memory
works, what a server is, how to plan a project and predict the obstacles, and
a lot of other stuff said in the article.

But if you don't wanna bother with that, and just want to make some cool
websites, that's totally fine. You are still definitely a programmer, just not
a software engineer.

Ohh and in most cases, don't expect to be paid like a software engineer.

~~~
jonnypotty
There is no hard definition of a server. I think OP finds the fact that people
use the word all the time when it doesn't mean anything confusing - they feel
there is a load of secret knowledge that other people have that they don't.
But a lot of the time people just use terms without worrying about whether
they actually know what these words mean or not.

Any network enabled machine responds to network packets with other network
packets. Is that a server? Does it have to encapsulate a 'service' in some
way? What is a service? Is this a higher level concept than tcp? Maybe it has
to be something useful to someone, whatever that means. So OK my client
machine starts running iis, is it a server now? I just use iis to test my Web
page as I develop it, no one else connects to it, well apart from Steve who
helps me with testing, he connects to my machine and it serves up the pages.
We could go on.

When someone says they don't understand something, make sure you do before
telling them they should.

------
ninjaturtlez
If anyone took a second to read any of this lady's other content, she seems
like quite the special flower. Not saying that I disagree with her that you
don't need to know everything to be a programmer but she also blatantly lies
in the article.

I poked through her github and she definitely knows how to write css. Articles
like this make people feel alright with complacency, it's fine to be an okay
or new programmer but you should always be trying to improve what you are
doing.

------
rcakebread
She lists CSS on the first line of her CV. I imagine her whiney, troll of a
post will really help in her next job search.

------
jeremysalwen
The definitive last word on what real programmers do:
[https://xkcd.com/378/](https://xkcd.com/378/)

------
dpeterson
Well, you're not a very experienced programmer I'll give you that. This list
is trivial for the most part. Please, learn to set up a server.

------
drosan
Another kid got PC for Christmas wow.

(The article started fairly reasonable laughing off some cliches about mac and
mouse and whatnot, but when I got to the part of "I don't like planning" or
"What is server" or lots of other _super_basic_ stuff it became clear that it
is just a celebration of ignorance: she doesn't know some stuff and she is
proud of it. "I don't like reading" \- after these words I decided that either
she is a murky troll or just sadly proud-to-be-dumb person.)

------
citrin_ru
List as a whole is already summarized in other comments, but one item
attracted my attention because it is commonly held attitude: many programmers
express scorn for shell scripting and bash in particular (probably the only
shell they heard about).

As a result we have a vicious cycle: programmers refuse to learn shell
scripting. When they have to write a shell script they produce a crappy one.
Problems caused by badly written shell scripts only confirm their belief, that
the shell scripting should not exists.

------
SftwreEngnr
This whiny blog post is obviously in reference to criticisms or comments
received during her career by gatekeeping nerds.

Get over it--every field has gatekeepers. Have you ever, as a casual football
fan, tried to get a word in edgewise with armchair NFL coaches?

Point being: they exist, and you don't need to write a self-flagellating blog
post because you're tired of the musings of aspie "tech bros."

~~~
chrisdirkis
An argument that gatekeepers exist is no evidence that gatekeepers should
exist.

------
jonnypotty
Thanks for the honesty. I find people who understand their own failings
interesting.

------
rramadass
>I’m just a web developer.

I am very sorry; that is not forgivable :-)

