
Anal probes are fine, if you've got nothing to hide [pdf] - timthelion
http://thobbs.cz/anal-probes/anal-probes.pdf
======
jessaustin
_While she was standing in line, a CBP dog handler walked by Ms. Doe and hit
the ground by her feet, but did not hit the ground by any of the others in the
line. The dog responded by lunging onto Ms. Doe and landing its front paws on
her torso._

Good grief, is _every_ LEO "investigative" technique such total bullshit? If
the dogs have been trained to alert when prompted to do so by the handler,
they're really just a fig leaf for LEO discretion, which is rightly subjected
to strict enough scrutiny to prevent "just search the Mexican lady, every
single time". If the whole ridiculous expensive exercise of training and
keeping dogs is a mere detour around such scrutiny, they're working a lot
harder on that than they are on any of their stated objectives. One would like
to think that LEOs might occasionally use a valid procedure, if for no other
reason than by mistake, but one is eternally disappointed.

~~~
ddt_Osprey
I don't know what the intended meaning of _LEO_ is supposed to be in this
context. Low Earth Orbit?

~~~
smoyer
One of the things I love about HN is that it's such a nerdy community - you
gave me quite a smile!

------
swehner
Seems to have been settled. Found this:

Mention of "Doe v. El Paso County Hospital District, et al. No. 3:13-cv-00406
(WD Tex., filed Dec. 18, 2013)" at this blog,
[https://holdcbpaccountable.org/category/texas/](https://holdcbpaccountable.org/category/texas/)
links to "Texas Hospital Reaches $1.1 Million Settlement"
[http://health.usnews.com/health-
news/news/articles/2014/07/0...](http://health.usnews.com/health-
news/news/articles/2014/07/07/hospital-settles-with-new-mexico-woman-over-
search) (July 2014)

In particular, "Texas Tech University, which operates a medical school campus
at the hospital [will pay] $500,000."

~~~
mapt
And that's good and fine, on the civil side in the specific suit against the
hospital.

Unfortunately, there are some criminal statutes that appear to have been
violated by all concerned and some professional medical codes that have been
violated by individual doctors; There is tampering with federal evidence
(prompting the dog) in order to falsify probable cause. There is also the
matter of precedential rulings associated with the guidance given border
control officers on how far to go.

Of five matters of concern, the _least pressing_ to us has been settled out of
court without the benefit of an enjoiner against future repetition of the
abuses by the hospital (in re: rules that permit participation in a kidnapping
and rape of a captive). My expectation is that a $1M reward is not especially
protective to the rest of us, when it's our turn to be kidnapped and raped as
some kind of practice exercise of authority. I am less worried about the
hospital than the men with guns and dogs, however the fact that the hospital
has a goddamned specialized billing procedure associated with torture of
unwilling captives of a rogue federal agency worries me.

Justice has not been done yet; Generally by my limited understanding a _Bivens
Action_ is only filed when justice is limited in availability by a whole arm
of the government who are denying any wrongdoing and prosecutors who are
refusing to operate in accordance with their duties to the people.

~~~
rm_-rf_slash
The solution quite simple: when the suspect had evidence of wrongdoing (drugs,
etc), they pay for the cost of the procedure.

When the suspect does _not_ have evidence of a crime, they should be
reimbursed. I am all right with a legitimate search warrant giving law
enforcement the right to tear my house inside and out, but after it is
established that they found nothing, I can bill them for the clean-up, as well
as any lost time from work.

To me the biggest problem with law enforcement today is that there is no
punishment for being wrong, even when lives and families can be shredded in
the process. We have malpractice insurance for doctors, why not cops?

~~~
mindslight
Erm, why should any suspect _ever_ be paying for a procedure they did not
order nor consent to?

~~~
Rzah
"Don't fight it son. Confess quickly! If you hold out too long you could
jeopardize your credit rating."

~~~
rm_-rf_slash
Or "go ahead and search me. You'll find nothing but a bill for my next
vacation."

~~~
jessaustin
In the context of TFA this is more like being paid for work as a sub.

------
rm_-rf_slash
Most police aspirants have to be sprayed with mace before they are allowed to
use it on other people.

We should require aspiring border patrol agents to undergo complete invasive
searches as a part of their training before they are allowed to demand them
for others.

~~~
mordocai
I don't know about mace, but I have seen people claim that police who are
tased before being able to use a taser are only electrocuted for a couple
seconds where as in the field police usually electrocute people for much
longer.

I imagine the same kind of thing would be done if they had to go through
invasive searches. The searches wouldn't match reality.

~~~
jMyles
_electrocuted_?!

TASERs kill a lot of people (more than one a week), but it's usually
ostensibly not intentional.

~~~
logfromblammo
I believe the technically correct term is " _electrotetanized_ " when the
current does not actually result in death.

~~~
jessaustin
This is something of a personal mission for you, isn't it?

[https://www.google.com/search?q=electrotetanized](https://www.google.com/search?q=electrotetanized)

~~~
logfromblammo
My personal mission is actually to destroy the word "amazing". Getting
_electrotetanized_ into the OED is more of a hobby.

I don't know what's up with that fourth result, though.

------
wefarrell
"Though Defendants conducted these searches against the will of Ms. Doe and
without her consent, the Medical Center billed Ms. Doe more than $5,000.00 for
its “services."

Reminds me of the bullet fees
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullet_fee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullet_fee))
charged by China and Iran.

~~~
huac
it's similar to an EMT fee in that there isn't necessarily mutual consent to a
contract

~~~
pseudalopex
EMTs don't perform medically useless procedures on people who have refused
them.

Also, according to the complaint, CBP offered to pay if Ms. Doe signed a
consent form. This was _after_ they found nothing.

------
md224
What makes this even sadder is that it was done for what... to prevent someone
from bringing controlled substances into the US? Who cares?

Yet another bullshit consequence of the War on Drugs.

~~~
Lawtonfogle
>Who cares?

People who are hurt by drug cartels. It is one thing to let people grow their
own pot and sell it when they are law abiding (or otherwise law abiding)
individuals. But when you get drugs from the drug cartel, the harm that goes
into the production makes it wrong to use. We should support legal production
and importation from human sources. But we should not legalize anything coming
from the cartels.

~~~
naasking
> But when you get drugs from the drug cartel, the harm that goes into the
> production makes it wrong to use.

That doesn't really follow. Nazi medical experiments were wholely unethical,
but it would be completely unethical not use whatever knowledge they gained to
save other people's lives.

Perhaps what you meant to say is that it would be wrong to _pay_ for the drugs
so the cartels actually benefit from their unethical behaviour. I agree with
that, but that doesn't make the drugs unethical to _use_.

~~~
sitkack
It absolutely would be unethical to use that knowledge in any way. Are u
kidding, this provides a huge loophole creation of unethical research.

~~~
naasking
Absolutely not unethical. The damage is already done, and you're just doing
more damage by not using it. It's irrational.

There's sufficient disincentive to conducting more unethical research by the
simple fact that you'll go to jail. This wasn't a consideration in Nazi
Germany.

~~~
sitkack
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731)

------
Raphmedia
This is sadly one of the reasons that the USA is one of the regions I will
never go to as a tourist.

The police has too much power.

------
bunnymancer
For those interested, this case seems to Still be ongoing since 2013...

[http://www.plainsite.org/dockets/28cbp6h0i/texas-western-
dis...](http://www.plainsite.org/dockets/28cbp6h0i/texas-western-district-
court/doe-v-el-paso-county-hospital-district-et-al/)

While it seems it was settled in July 2014, the case doesn't get closed until
everything is sorted out.

So.. Yeah.. Happy Justice everyone!

~~~
MaysonL
Still ongoing, seemingly scheduled to go to trial next month:

SCHEDULING ORDER: Jury Selection set for 5/16/2016 09:00AM before Judge David
C Guaderrama, Jury Trial set for 5/16/2016 09:00 AM before Judge David C
Guaderrama, Amended Pleadings due by 5/30/2015, Discovery due by 12/18/2015,
Joinder of Parties due by 5/3/2015, Dispositive motions due by 2/19/2016,.
Signed by Judge David C Guaderrama. (lc3) (Entered: 04/01/2015)

------
mtgx
It's both sad and worrying what's happening with the culture of U.S.
authorities. From police up to the NSA, they're all now thinking that the
Constitution doesn't matter, personal liberty doesn't matter, human decency
doesn't matter - it's all about the _mission_ , and the mission must be solved
_at all costs_.

And if you have something to say against that, then you're the enemy of the
state for trying to stop the state from accomplishing whatever mission it
believes it has then.

I think this trend will stop reversing only when the people manage to elect
someone that will hold accountable and punish severely any member of law
enforcement or the intelligence community that breaks the law or does
unconstitutional things. Until then, things are only going to get worse, and
it will become increasingly harder to do something about it.

~~~
sickbeard
I think you should read the full pdf to understand where the problem occurred.

------
Sir_Cmpwn
Good lord, I thought the title was a joke.

------
isomorph
This is one of the most disturbing things I've ever read. How can this happen?

~~~
strathmeyer
When people talk to their friends about police abuse.... their friends don't
believe them.

------
USApolicestate
Yet another example of the corruption endemic to America.

America is a police state. Repeat after me, America is a police state. The
first step is to admit and state aloud the plain truth of the matter.

------
monort
Recent case in South Carolina:

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-
watch/wp/2016/04/01/...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-
watch/wp/2016/04/01/video-shows-white-cops-performing-roadside-cavity-search-
of-black-man/)

------
donatj
> Though Defendants conducted these searches against the will of Ms. Doe and
> without her consent, the Medical Center billed Ms. Doe more than $5,000.00
> for its “services.”

God, that is the worst thing I have ever read. Ever. They horrendously
violated her and then had the audacity to charge her for it.

~~~
abruzzi
Reminds me of Brazil. Information retrieval charges.

------
shimon
Some background from the ACLU of New Mexico, which filed this suit:
[https://www.aclu-nm.org/aclu-of-texas-and-new-mexico-sue-
fed...](https://www.aclu-nm.org/aclu-of-texas-and-new-mexico-sue-feds-county-
for-invasive-cavity-searches-of-woman-at-u-s-mexico-border/2013/12/)

I tried to find an update on this case (originally filed in 2013) and only
found this 2015 ruling on the defendants' motion for protective order:
[http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-
courts/texas/tx...](http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-
courts/texas/txwdce/3:2013cv00406/666787/147/)

------
leesalminen
I just read the entire document and I'm literally trembling out of disgust and
am in disbelief that such a thing could happen in a civilized society.

So many levels of wrong.

It almost makes me want to run for office or something. If good people stand
by and do nothing, no change will happen.

------
at-fates-hands
I usually stand up for cops, but this is asinine. I mean, how many shows do
you see where they're at LaGuardia or JFK with the customs people there and
they're sure a person has drugs on them? All they do is either warn them
they're going to take an x-ray, or just make them take it and it will show if
they have drugs on them - anywhere. No anal probe needed at all.

Why cops feel anal probes are necessary are clearly not doing their job
properly when suspicion of drugs are easily settled with a painless x-ray.
Even the mere threat of an x-ray to get the person to tell them the truth is
usually enough to get these drug mules to confess.

~~~
a3n
Without anal probes they lose one more way to say "I can do anything I want to
you. I own you." These things are not just investigatory, they're for
intimidation.

Remember the woman who killed herself in a Texas jail in the last year. During
the traffic stop, the cop yelled "I will light you up!" He was referring to a
taser, and that was pure intimidation.

Intimidation is a technique and a feature.

------
Sacho
Similar case from around that time frame -
[https://popehat.com/2013/11/07/what-is-the-quantum-of-
proof-...](https://popehat.com/2013/11/07/what-is-the-quantum-of-proof-
necessary-for-police-to-rape-and-torture-you-in-new-mexico/)

It ticks pretty much all the boxes.

\- drug dog "alerting"

\- x-ray, multiple enemas, colonoscopy

\- completely against the citizen's consent

The major difference is that the police officers bothered to obtain a
warrant(it didn't take much). The law analysis of the case was inconclusive,
but the lawyers weren't really sure that the police officers hadn't acted
lawfully.

------
Pitarou
This is the part that is utterly indefensible:

"After the CT scan, a CBP [Customs and Border Protection] agent presented Ms.
Doe with a choice: she could either sign a medical consent form, despite the
fact that she had not consented, in which case CBP would pay for the cost of
the searches; or if she refused to sign the consent form, she would be billed
for the cost of the searches. She refused."

And the medial center duly billed her more than $5,000.00.

------
joveian
"When Ms. Doe expressed dismay about the unreasonable searches she suffered, a
Medical Center employee responded that these procedures were routinely
followed when an individual is brought in by CBP agents. The employee also
told Ms. Doe that what happened to her was not invasive."

------
spurgu
This is one of the reasons I will (most likely) never visit the USA.

------
omginternets
The dogs smelled drugs? You mean those dogs that are known to be trained in
such a way as to yield false positives?

------
fishnchips
I read about it a few years back. Has there been any resolution to this case
recently?

~~~
bunnymancer
Would you like to take a guess?

~~~
consp
Educated: Cause 3 would be a no brainer. "WTF": Case dropped.

------
libeclipse
I see what you did there with the title.

------
pigpaws
Sponsored by the NSA and TSA. ~Good Day, Citizen.

~~~
darkstar999
Except neither of those agencies were involved in any way.

~~~
Zigurd
NSA feeds surveillance data to law enforcement agencies. They are culpable in
the Drug War and other law enforcement atrocities.

------
sickbeard
There are many reasons why this happened, mainly they aer transferred to a
nearby medical center which do these probes due to poor training.

and the title is just clickbait.

No it's not fine there are many laws against this.

~~~
chris_wot
The medical centre is in no way obligated to undertake the search though. $1.1
million is getting off easy.

~~~
sickbeard
They were not allowed to do that. Even in the pdf it says

"Medical Center policy L-13 on searches by hospital personnel does not permit
an invasion of a person’s body for purposes of a search without either consent
or a search warrant."

"Consequently, the Medical Center’s failure to train its personnel on the
constitutional limits constraining law enforcement searches amounts to a
deliberate indifference to the violation of individuals’ constitutional
rights"

Like I said it's a clickbait title. People are getting emotional over the
title alone without reading the actual pdf

~~~
chris_wot
I read the entirety of the document, and I can assure you I'm pretty fucking
outraged at what was done.

