
The Snake That’s Eating Florida - antr
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/06/us/the-burmese-python-snake-thats-eating-florida.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=mini-moth&region=top-stories-below&WT.nav=top-stories-below&_r=0
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caf
_Like many animals previously unknown north of the Equator, the Burmese python
arrived through the pet trade._

...but Burma _is_ north of the Equator...

~~~
67726e
One could be generous to the author and say that he just spotted Java on the
Wikipedia map[0] of the Burmese python's range. Being the smartass I am, I
tried finding if the first discovery of the Burmese python was south of the
equator to give the author more credit. Nothing but invasive species reports
for Florida as far as the eye can see, at least on Google.

Nonetheless, poor fact checking.

[0] -
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burmese_python#/media/File:Pyth...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burmese_python#/media/File:Python_bivittatus_Area.svg)

~~~
hbharadwaj
I understand the comment on poor fact checking but don't get why it is voted
all the way to the top since it takes away the focus on the message to some
extent.

This is a serious problem with no apparent solutions. Even Everglades apex
predators, the alligators are unable to deal with the issue. A fight between a
python and an alligator is fatal to both.

[http://science.time.com/2012/01/31/invaders-how-burmese-
pyth...](http://science.time.com/2012/01/31/invaders-how-burmese-pythons-are-
devouring-the-everglades/)

TLDR quote from the article: As per study in Proceedings of the National
Academy of Sciences, the increase of the python population from just a few to
perhaps a few thousand has been connected to declines of several native
mammals. According to the study, observations of raccoons have declined 93
percent, bobcats by 87 percent, and possums by 98.9 percent.

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hunglee2
It's pretty clear we need to eat these animals:

LionFish, Asian Carp, Burmese Python (any Python really) - are all meats that
are well worthy of the table. We need to stop thinking of them as pests (and
as pets, for that matter) and start thinking of them as resources to harvest.

~~~
6stringmerc
Honest question: Have you ever eaten Asian Carp? It might be worthy of "the
table" but as an occasional recreational fisherman, it's known simply as an
invasive species and only for eating by the poorest among society. The joke is
to put forward a really intricate recipe where a fillet of carp is put on a
plank of wood, seasoned, cooked, and then after a bit of time, throw away the
fish and eat the plank.

I mean, if you really enjoy eating carp, great, but around here, they are
simply pests. Rough fish. Trash fish. Basically the perfect target for
bowfishing...just sayin'

~~~
hunglee2
Carp is delicious. As is eel. As is Catfish. It's all in the prep. The thing
is, food items move in and out of acceptable fashion according cultural &
historical context - it's not always to do with taste.

Read up on the history of Atlantic Cod or Maine Lobster and you'll see that at
one time these delicacies were also once considered vermin, fit for the dogs
and not for the table.

What we have to do is secure a better understanding of what we are doing when
we categorise animals. Simply calling them 'pests' removes invasive animals
from the very viable option of hunting and eating them.

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mdemare
Luckily, both crocodiles and tigers eat pythons, so this problem should be
easily solved.

~~~
TheSoftwareGuy
I'm pretty sure neither of those animals live in Florida. We definitely have
alligators, I'm not so sure about crocodiles.

~~~
baldfat
Actually the southern half of Florida does have some Crocodiles.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_crocodile](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_crocodile)

Ran into one when I was a kid and well I have a very firm imprint that they in
fact do live there.

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brixon
I went camping in the south everglades this winter and we were told that you
don't need to worry about raccoons invading the campsite. Mostly because they
are all gone due to the snakes. You now have to deal with vultures at
campsites.

~~~
bsaul
you mean people actually go _camping_ in those areas ?? How do you equip
yourself ?

~~~
waterlesscloud
I don't know about the Everglades, but in the Okefenokee Swamp, you canoe
around the waters and sleep on raised platforms. Well, you lie in your
sleeping bag while the gators move around under the platform. It's fun!

[http://www.wildlifesouth.com/Camping/CampingChecklist.html](http://www.wildlifesouth.com/Camping/CampingChecklist.html)

~~~
mrfusion
Are the alligators dangerous while canoeing though? Can they topple the boat
or what if you fall out?

~~~
waterlesscloud
I'm sure they could topple a canoe, and I wouldn't go swimming with them on
purpose. But they really do tend to shy away from human confrontation. I've
heard there hasn't been a single fatal attack in the Wildlife Refuge.

For the most part, they seem to leave you alone if you leave them alone. I
wouldn't say I ever got comfortable with them on my trip, but I stopped being
terrified. Heh.

That said, they're intimidating nonetheless, and worthy of a healthy respect.
And their growling is unsettling.

~~~
will_brown
>And their growling is unsettling.

Not many people know/understand Alligators actually growl. It is a unsettling
sound indeed, in my experience they growl because you have stumbled upon a
nest which does make them very aggressive.

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will_brown
Certainly the Pythons are wrecking havoc on Florida's natural ecological
balance, but generally Pythons are not a direct danger to humans. Yes, there
are exceptions to the rule, like the story of the 2 year old in the article,
but that was added because it fit the tone of the article. The fact is
Florida's indigenous snake population is more dangerous to humans by orders of
magnitude; including, Coral Snakes, water moccasins/cottonmouths, and various
rattle snakes.

Also, wanted to add that it was good the article mentioned other invasive
species, but in particular lion fish happen to be another that is devastating
South Florida. Its really a shame because both the python and lion fish
problems are a result of lazy and ignorant people releasing their pets. Sadly,
there isn't a good solution to either problem, bounty programs and public
policy (with lots of funding) have not helped. Perhaps one day a big enough
freeze will come to South Florida as the article mentions, its not entirely
uncommon for a cold front to hit South Florida and to see Cuban Anoles
(another invasive species) start falling out of trees in a hypothermic state,
but they normally snap out of it in a few days. I wish more was discussed
about the exact temperatures and effects they might have on the Pythons.

~~~
sukilot
Putting a bounty on pests is the textbook example of of perverse incenives
that encourages people to make the problem worse.

~~~
will_brown
Certainly a bounty program _could_ make problems worse, in the sense of
potential, but there is zero evidence of that in the Python/Everglades
situation. For starters everything is public record, there were about 1,600
licensed registrants and they killed less than <100 snakes. At the time it
probably worked out to less than $1/participant, in response the Florida
Wildlife Commission has removed the bounty and instead permits the selling of
the skin and meat. Odds are the this article itself produces more revenue than
hunting the Pythons, but again I don't think anyone would say ad revenue from
these stories incentives the media to make the problem worse.

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therobot24
> Last month, the prohibition was extended to four other species: reticulated
> pythons, DeSchauensee’s anacondas, green anacondas and Beni anacondas. (Boa
> constrictors, an important component of the pet snake trade, were spared a
> ban.) Not surprisingly, reptile sellers and breeders are not happy with the
> restrictions, with slippery slopesters among them warning that all kinds of
> animals, including more familiar household pets, could become the next
> government target.

It's a sad state of affairs when the federal government has to step in and
play parent. Really is a case of a few bad apples spoiling the whole bunch.
Though, i was hoping more would be done than add a few more names to a list.
The article kind of ended with a tone of 'that's it, nothing more to report',
when there's clearly still a problem.

~~~
67726e
> It's a sad state of affairs when the federal government has to step in and
> play parent

I suppose one could make that argument, but I think it's pretty suitable given
the damage that could be done by those "few bad apples" releasing their pets
in the wild. To take that argument further, should the government not deal
with industrial runoff? Only a few bad apples. How about NFA firearms? Sure,
most of my gun owning friends are great, responsible folks, but those "few bad
apples" could sure cause a ruckus with automatic firearms.

The government can and should step in and take action to solve a big problem
like this. There have always been, and always will be bad apples to spoil the
bunch for the rest of us.

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robotnoises
I did not hear about the Burmese python strangling the 2 year-old...

As a father of a 20 month old, this might be the most traumatized I've ever
been by news story.

Edit: Thanks a ton for the links to the other dead kid stories.

~~~
brohee
You missed all the stories about toddlers killed by dogs?

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_Unite...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States)

~~~
r00fus
4.5 - 4.7 million people are bitten by dogs each year? Yikes. Need to
reconsider my reaction to my 2 YO's fear of dogs.

Surely some of those bites are either provoked or the dog biting a family
member, that number is just amazing.

~~~
db48x
True, but there are 7 billionish people, so that's only about one person in
2000.

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bluedino
I encourage tourists to buy snakeskin products when they are visiting Florida.
Hunters are encouraged to take these snakes and there's quite a market for
products made from them.

~~~
tim333
They could make things a bit easier and allow anyone to catch them. Roll on
the python restaurants and handbag emporia.

At the moment:

"Qualified applicants may apply for an interim permit that allows for removal
of Burmese pythons and other conditional reptiles from three WMAs: Everglades
and Francis S. Taylor WMA, Holey Land WMA, and Rotenberger WMA. This permit
does not allow access to properties managed by the South Florida Water
Management District."

------
Shivetya
so can we grind them up and make dog food out of them? Surely there can be
some commercial use of them, if not pay a bounty to be rid of them.

~~~
dalke
The article mentions:

> A couple of years ago, they organized a Python Challenge, a come-one, come-
> all snake hunt on state land near Everglades National Park. It put barely a
> dent in the python population; no more than a few dozen of them were
> captured. ... “scientists have not found any way of eradicating invasive
> constrictor snakes once they become established in the wild.”

[http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-01-10/killing-
py...](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-01-10/killing-pythons-for-
cash-lures-hunters-to-florida-s-everglades) estimates that it takes 92 hours
to find and kill a snake. At $5/hour, assuming under minimum wage, that's
~$500 per snake. Even if they are at the high-end size of 250 pounds/snake,
that's $2/pound for the total carcass. More likely they will be smaller, and
not all of the snake can be used for dog food.

According to
[http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=costfactors](http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=costfactors)
, high quality dog food is under $1/pound. According to
[http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine-
archive/2011/aug...](http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine-
archive/2011/august/money/pet-costs/dont-pay-a-premium-for-premium-pet-
food/index.htm) from 4 years ago:

> At the higher end of the price range was a 4.5-pound bag of Purina Chef
> Michael's Rotisserie Chicken flavor, at PetSmart for $2.22 a pound

Therefore, it's not economical by far to make dog food from them. The market
does not appear to be big enough.

It would be different if the Pythons tasted like, or produced something like,
caviar or truffles. But they don't.

~~~
roel_v
How much would a skin fetch on the market?

Next startup bootcamp thing should have a homework project on building a
dogfood-and-snakeskin-boot-producing snake hunting robot :)

~~~
pantalaimon
You can always create a startup making snake oil ;)

~~~
roel_v
Lots of competition in that field though :)

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sulleh
I don't understand why folks would want these as a pet if you know how big
they grow, and what their impact on the environment is.

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lfender6445
searching google for predators of burmese pythons came back with this

Because of its large size, adult Burmese pythons have few predators, with
alligators and humans being the exceptions. They prey upon native species and
may reduce their populations locally. Research is underway to ascertain the
impacts pythons have on native mammal species.

I am struggling to think of ways you could limit the numbers on such an
elusive animal

~~~
feedjoelpie
I don't know how much this would change, but I keep reading about having teams
of volunteers "capture and remove" pythons. Which I just don't understand.
It's an invasive species. We outright kill almost every other invasive
species. We cull overpopulated native species. Surely it's far more time-
consuming to capture and remove vs. kill the pythons.

If the problem is so serious, why isn't it being attacked the same way as any
other invasive species problem?

~~~
maxerickson
This article sounds like the state has embraced a do kill policy:

[http://tbo.com/news/florida-wont-repeat-public-python-
hunt-n...](http://tbo.com/news/florida-wont-repeat-public-python-hunt-next-
year-20131118/)

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bwb
This scares the shit out of me.

~~~
TheHypnotist
If you watch the video, there is appropriately a toilet snake. I think this
fits here somehow.

