
China attacks Apple for allowing Hong Kong crowdsourced police activity app - elsewhen
https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/09/china-attacks-apple-for-allowing-hong-kong-crowdsourced-police-activity-app/
======
Despegar
Apple will most likely be fine because it's unlike any other western company
operating in China in that it employs a lot of people assembling their
products. It's not in the CCP's interest for people to boycott Apple in a
nationalist fervor only for unemployment to rise, which would be an
existential threat to the CCP if they lost control of.

~~~
Scramblejams
I doubt it. This is just, like, my opinion, man, but I think the Chinese would
walk away from any company in the world in an instant if it suits their
security needs. If their economic ministry is doing its job then they will
have detailed contingency plans to address the loss of any of their major
foreign benefactors, and if required those jobs can be replaced with state
handouts, at least until the crisis passes.

If I were Tim Cook I'd be real worried about being shut out of my own supply
chain right about now.

~~~
throw0101a
> _If I were Tim Cook I 'd be real worried about being shut out of my own
> supply chain right about now._

You're not wrong, but if people see that China is willing to shutdown someone
as big as Apple, then they'll know that everyone else (who is probably
smaller) stand no chance at all. People may start re-evaluating the (economic
/ supply-chain) risks they're will to take at that point.

~~~
Scramblejams
I’d hope what's happening now is already enough for everyone to reevaluate
those risks!

In any case, threatening to shut Apple down wouldn’t be a message that you
can’t do business in China, just that everybody, no matter how big, needs to
toe the line. Do that, and you won’t have any problems.

~~~
derf_
_> everybody, no matter how big, needs to toe the line. Do that, and you won’t
have any problems._

And maybe you're fine with that today. But once you've ceded that ground, what
happens when they move the line?

Because they always move the line.

~~~
StudentStuff
As technology and finances have enabled China's expanding authoritarianism,
they have broken new ground with:

\- Mandatory state written malware for phones and computers,

\- "AI" for tracking people in public, at schools and businesses

\- Prevalent speed and crosswalk cameras to enforce traffic laws that their
own police force fails to write tickets for.

------
superkuh
Here we see the true form of the word "toxic" as it is applied in modern
discourse.

>“Providing a gateway for ‘toxic apps’ is hurting the feelings of the Chinese
people, twisting the facts of Hong Kong affairs, and against the views and
principles of the Chinese people,”

It's a way to say something is bad without saying anything about it.

~~~
K0SM0S
The term in the context of propaganda is as clear as it gets though, if you
mean to say "infecting or enabling otherwise 'sane' people with 'undesirable'
ideas and behaviors".

Toxic is subtext that directly speaks to people (Chinese) wondering "what
should I do?" => don't use it, don't even approach it or look at it (it's
toxic).

It's idiomatic and quite explicit, in subtext, in this context (Chinese gov
stuff).

------
tru3_power
Jeez they even tried to get a song removed from Apple Music? I wonder how much
other stuff China was able to suppress without anyone noticing.

~~~
noja
If they are worried about a _song_ , it makes them look very weak indeed.

~~~
La1n
I feel weird about all the China outrage currently. Some of it feels very
hypocritical. [https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-
politic...](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-
politics/trump-nbc-license-ban-tweet-cnn-shut-down-fake-news-threat-
latest-a7994861.html)

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/05/31...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/05/31/a-song-
that-calls-britains-theresa-may-a-liar-is-climbing-the-charts-but-it-isnt-
being-played-on-the-radio/)

~~~
toxik
Not sure if shill or just really disconnected? Trump saying outrageous stuff
with little to no actual consequence is a FAR cry from the dictatorship of
China.

------
brink
This would be a great time for Apple to start allowing users to install apps
manually.

~~~
nanoservices
Been an Android users since the first Android phone (HTC G1), before that I
was on Windows Mobile. If Apple opened things up I would switch in a
heartbeat. I doubt it will happen though.

~~~
helpPeople
I could never trust Apple given their track record.

Plus, their hardware is overpriced for what you get.

I genuinely have a hard time understanding the appeal. It seems to have the
Gucci brand name, maybe integrations but I don't feel this is lacking on
Android, and maybe privacy but I don't trust Apple for privacy.

~~~
bashinator
But you do trust Google for privacy?

~~~
nanoservices
You'll have to trust someone. Both Google & Apple are in the same boat in that
respect. My main reason to switch to Apple is the consistency. I am getting
sick and tired of Google killing app after app I rely on only to release a new
one with half the features. At this point I'm willing to shell out the extra
money even though I agree that Apple hardware is borderline rip off levels of
pricing.

~~~
vbezhenar
Google is well known to monetize your data, it's their primary revenue after
all. Apple sells hardware, while they could monetize your data, they are
actively presenting themselves as a privacy company. So Apple looks better
than Google in that regard.

Though I have no idea why would anyone trying to hide from Google. You can't
really. Google spies on you everywhere, from every website. They already have
all data and you can't do anything about it. It won't be much worse if they'll
have a bit more data.

~~~
Yetanfou
All it takes to keep Google from spying (apart from not using any of its
products directly and not having a Google account) is a well-targeted block
list on your router and in your ad blocker. They'll probably still be able to
glean _some_ data about you but it will be sparse and more or less useless for
ad targeting - or maybe it is useful in that it tells them that 'you' don't
like nor look at ads?

------
moggie2
Title is kinda misleading. A more accurate but longer one is like 'China state
media journalist accused Apple approving app that aid violent protesters from
evading police"

Which similarly, it also happens on the other part of the world? E.g) US?
[https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/06/nyregion/waze-nypd-
locati...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/06/nyregion/waze-nypd-
location.html) [https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-
way/2015/01/28/382013185...](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-
way/2015/01/28/382013185/officers-ask-map-app-to-remove-police-tracking)

~~~
secraetomani
There is a big difference.

US is not gonna ban Google or Waze.

China might actually ban Apple tomorrow. There are no courts to appeal. There
is no retort. Just the decision of one man.

~~~
kwizzt
One man? If you are just trying to sound dramatic, sure. However, I'd urge
that you go and actually read more about how CCP works and the actual reaction
of Chinese people on Weibo and other Chinese social media. The reaction to NBA
and Hong Kong is not merely the government's manipulation, tho I'm sure there
are some being done.

When people see the news and make a judgement, it's often times the judgement
the media want you to make. I'll give you another video about Hong Kong
protesters for a different perspective:
[https://youtu.be/ZPYuGYLesx0](https://youtu.be/ZPYuGYLesx0)

This video by no means represents all of the protesters, but I hope people
here can see the same event from different angles.

Edit: fix typo

~~~
calcifer
> the actual reaction of Chinese people on Weibo and other Chinese social
> media

Why do you think those people react that way? Nobody is born with an opinion.
What politics they were exposed to growing up? What did the schools teach
them? What behaviour did the government punish, what did it allow? Which
information sources where they given access to? Are the "actual Chinese
people" who disagree with the party allowed to share their thoughts on Weibo
without fear?

~~~
kwizzt
Like you said, nobody is born with an opinion. Same questions you asked above
can be asked of Americans. Democracy != Good and Communism != Bad

Things aren't as black and white as people make it out to be.

Now, I'll tell you I'm Chinese, but I've been in the US for almost ten years
now. I've seen perspectives from both sides and the truth is far from what
western media tells you. The unfortunate problem is the language barrier. Many
people in English speaking countries cannot read Chinese, thus relying on
"Chinese experts" for their opinions, without realizing many of the so-called
experts themselves cannot speak Chinese.

I tell you that I don't support the Hong Kong protest, this is not posted on
Weibo or any Chinese social media. This is my own feeling and judgement. It's
sad I even need to make this disclaimer. Now you have this one data point from
me as a Chinese citizen, if that's worth anything.

~~~
kelnos
You're of course entitled to your opinion on the HK protests, but I don't
think that's what people are looking for. You're just one random person on the
internet. What I think we're interested in is figuring out what public
sentiment _actually_ is, and what's causing it.

For example, is it that most Chinese people are genuinely, organically
outraged? Or is it a small, vocal minority that is being amplified by state
media? Or is it mainly groups like the 50 Cent Army manipulating public
opinion? It's hard to say, and I don't think the Western media is equipped to
answer that question.

As an example, there are reports that Chinese media outlets are dishonestly
painting the HK protestors as largely a violent group that (among other
things) are separatists. If people in China hear that, and believe that, I'd
say outrage is completely understandable... but it's based on a false premise.
But I don't -- and can't -- know what's actually happening over there, so it's
just one explanation among many possibilities. How _do_ we, as foreigners, get
to the heart of the matter? Is it even possible?

To your note about the language barrier: I think about that a lot. I
speak/understand a _very_ tiny amount of Chinese, and can read basically none
(something I'd like to improve at soon). I was watching a recording of a clip
of a Chinese news broadcast, and of course there was a translator speaking
over it in English. How do I know the English translation was actually what
was said? Even if the translators were acting in good faith, how do I know
that the translation accurately expresses the intent of the speaker? I don't,
and recognize that there are limits to how much I can understand what's going
on.

I think, also, for context, a lot of non-Chinese people naturally distrust
China's government. Personally, I have trouble believing anything at face
value that comes out of an authoritarian government, or the media apparatus
that it controls. The US has many, many faults, but at least I can believe
with reasonable certainty that the media outlets are saying things (whether
right or wrong) because _they_ want to say them, not because the government is
forcing them to say things.

~~~
kwizzt
I appreciate your level-headed response.

To address your first point: are most people genuinely outraged? That I do not
know tbh. I can only represent my own opinion. However, I have Chinese friends
that have voices their discontent with the NBA and Hong Kong situation. That's
all I can tell. For me personally, I'm against Hong Kong protest, but again,
it's my own opinion.

About the news reports in China, ofc they are biased. Most if not all media
are biased imo. But that doesn't mean you can't get information out of it. By
getting your news from multiple sources and cross checking, you can be more
confident in your judgement. By multiple sources I don't mean from CNN, Fox,
etc., I mean sources from China, US, Europe and all other places. This again
brings me to the language barrier point. It's hard for you to access the
Chinese media without it being translated and presented to you, that I don't
know how you can solve.

For the media being controlled by the government point, I'd like to agree on
the Chinese part. The US media tho, while they seem to be saying what they
want to say, sometimes it's not true. Case in point:
[https://youtu.be/yUGPIeE9kMc](https://youtu.be/yUGPIeE9kMc)

About censoring, I'm not denying Chinese social media is heavily censored.
However, I find the situation in western forums and social media are rather
interesting. Whenever people post anything neutral/good about China, they get
bashed and down voted to oblivion. People call them wumao/50 cents to ignore
their opinions. Just my observations. Maybe there's a name for it, but I think
it's a different form of censorship, but I could be wrong.

Again, I appreciate your response. I don't know why I'm getting down voted.
Just because I hold a different view or something else?

~~~
atr_gz
But people in China can't really cross check things with sources that aren't
controlled by their government. I've been in China for the entire duration of
the Hong Kong protests, and unfortunately I often have to watch CCTV news at
night.

They didn't even cover the protests for something like two weeks. They waited
until they had some negative things to cover and their talking points all
sorted out, then started hammering away about how violent the protestors were
and how they were all that way because of foreign influence. It was truly
absurd.

The Overton [1] window in China and amongst Chinese people is therefore very
far from the truth. Combine that with social pressure, and poor reporting by
Western sources, even overseas Chinese people have trouble understanding other
opinions on the matter.

I don't agree about your different form of censorship idea. It's completely
different to have the majority of people disagree with or ignore your opinion
than to have top-down censorship of different ideas. I can easily find Chinese
opinions on social media and educate myself about your beliefs. Not so easy in
China. To me it just shows weakness - if the government of China can't trust
their people to make up their own mind, what does that say about their
arguments?

I haven't tried to bring up the Hong Kong protests with many friends here in
China, just because I'm afraid of losing their friendships. How must it feel
for Chinese people who have sympathy for them?

As far as the NBA, some friends have actually broached the topic with me. They
tend to be upper-middle class, educated types, and while they might disagree
with what that one guy said (and apologized for), they aren't angry at the
NBA, and they feel the government response is ridiculous and counter-
productive.

[1]
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window)

------
mikenew
Happy to see Apple caught in such a difficult situation. They insist on being
the sole arbiter of what software a user is allowed to install on their
device, so this is their burden to bear. They could at any point give up their
walled garden approach to iOS, but they won't, so they're dragged into this
impossible situation of appeasing CCP or appeasing the rest of the world.

FWIW I'm happy they've chosen to allow the app (although at first they
didn't), but the whole situation really brings the consequences of controlling
a user's device to light. I hope it changes.

~~~
_bxg1
I've always accepted their walled-garden philosophy as a security measure, but
you know, I'm realizing that it doesn't have to be either-or. They can
continue to hold App Store listings to high standards of security and quality,
and I'll continue to use it when that's what I want, while allowing people the
option of side-loading at their own risk. Most of the problems with malicious
apps on Android don't happen because of side-loading, they happen because of
Google's terrible moderation of the Play store.

~~~
0xffff2
The trouble is that if you provide a mechanism to side-load, people will be
convinced to use it without understanding the risks they are taking. See also
the recent issues with MDM. In that sense, it kind of is either/or for the
average user.

~~~
mikenew
Is side-loading really that common for an Android user? It hardly seems
widespread. Certainly not for your average, tech-illiterate consumer.

~~~
hu3
n=1

From all the android users who I have some level of intimacy, the only one
sideloading an android app is my brother who uses a gps spoofer to teleport
his Pokemon Go character around the world without leaving the confort of his
chair. He's a dev and poweruser who knows what he's doing.

All the other dozens of users only have apps from Google's app store.

------
alexron782
[https://www.quora.com/Was-Hong-Kong-more-democratic-under-
Br...](https://www.quora.com/Was-Hong-Kong-more-democratic-under-British-rule-
or-under-Chinese-rule)

ps: I truly believe most of people here talking about Hong Kong have no idea
how Hong Kong works before and after CCP. I found it both sad and amusing, but
often time I found myself stupid when posting on the Internet. But anyhow, the
facts should be delivered.

~~~
PostPost
Sorry if this sounds rude, but why does it matter if HK was more or less
democratic before 1991? The protesters are not asking for a return to British
rule.

In the same vein, the United States is vastly more democratic than it was a
100 years ago. That does not mean the democratic process does not need
additional improvement; there are critical things worth protesting today.

~~~
moggie2
The unfortunate part is not WHAT the protesters are asking, it is about HOW
the protesters are asking. For those who were only watching from the western
mainstream media, you are missing out on some footage of the whole picture.
E.g) You may have seen police beating up protesters, but you were not told
that police were beaten by surprise from behind. You may have seen police fire
warning shot with lethal weapon, but you were not told that police chased by
mob of angry protesters who were wielding metal rod at a police who fell on
floor. You may have seen police shot a protester who was later identified as a
high school student, but you were not told that a mob of angry protesters were
wielding sharpened metal rod, hammer and wrench on another police who were
chased, jumped on and fell on floor in front of him. You may have heard police
shot a 14 years old on the street and then being set on fire by petrol bombs
but you were not told that he was surrounded by mobs of protester in his car
before, being assaulted from behind after he stepped out and beaten up on the
ground by surrounding mobs with metal rods. You may have seen police shooting
tear gas and rubber bullets at crowds, but you were not told that police were
launched by bricks, metal rods, slingshot, petrol bombs or metal road sign
from the bridge above their head. You may have seen "pro-China" citizens
removing stickies and posters on wall, but you were not told "pro-China"
citizens were beaten up with severe injuries. You may have seen 'pro-China'
chanted 'We are all Chinese' beaten up by protester, but you were not told
that he was being spied on his personal cellphone by the so-called 'reporters'
and a western 'reporter' blocked his way out by shutting the door in front of
him. Unless you can understand Cantonese, you definitely were not told that
many citizens were famed for attacking reporters or females, beaten severely
and unconsciously only because they expressed different opinions in the public
or taking picture of protesters vandalizing public properties / stores /
banks. You would not be told that professors were locked up and surrounded by
mob of angry students only because he expressed different opinions on social
media. You would not be told that many high school students were trained or
encouraged by their teacher to set fire on the street or fight against police.
You may have read a female lose an eye and accused of police weaponry, but you
were not told that the same girl whom assisted by the opposition party filed
an objection to police to obtain her medical record for investigation to proof
her claim. Unless you can understand Cantonese, you would not be told that
protesters are always asking others to open their umbrella to shield
themselves from being recorded when they are vandalizing properties or beating
up people with different opinions. You may have been told that they are
fighting for their freedom, but you were not told that none of their already
owned freedom were taken away. You may have been told that they are fighting
for their 'future', but you were not told that they are very willing to
sacrifices the 'present' of many families who were still making a living nor
the 'past' of those who contributed to the society.

It is not true that all actions from the police are justifiable. But at the
same time, HongKongers youth are definitely smart nowadays, they know exactly
the interests of the western media. Hence they will always play nice with
'reporters' from different colors and always portray themselves as the victims
in many incidents.

~~~
PostPost
So that long paragraph was essentially saying... protesters should ask more
nicely? You should have saved your words.

Quiet, non-offensive protests do not work. Large-scale, massive protests that
disrupt society have a chance of working.

I also don't think it's reasonable to expect that police tear gas protesters
and shoot them in the face with rubber pullets and expect zero acts in return
- especially since one of the HK demands is an investigation into ongoing
Police Brutality.

~~~
dirtyid
>protesters should ask more nicely?

The protesters have never asked nicely. The history of HK protests post
handover has been couched in nativism bigotry against mainland China, the very
audience they should be trying to win over. If their problem was the Chinese
government, they wouldn't be targeting mainland people and their businesses.
Whatever little effort they made to reach out was framed in "support us
because you're brainwashed" language. They would be burning CPC government
flag instead of the Chinese national one. They wouldn't be waving western
flags, which may as well be tiki torches, or appealing to western authorities.

Ever considered why no one ever had the idea of waving the Chinese flag and
petitioning the Chinese for change? They should try it. It's easy for the CPC
to look the other way and watch the city burn, it's much harder for the CPC to
ignore 2 million HKers who wave the Chinese flag for a better future. Of
course that doesn't play well with the west, but maybe they shouldn't be
focusing on them in the first place. The cost of their strategy is that on
mainland China, whose sentiment their future depends upon, HK protestors are
viewed as the equivalent of alt-right agitators instead of patriots:
disenfranchised, social media savvy, economically anxious youth who see their
culture being displaced and their privileged being eroded by immigrant
mainlanders. Rich ones come in to buy all the property, poor ones use up all
the social services. These are common complaints to the mainland locust
narrative - when the mainland sends their people, they're not sending their
best.

~~~
PostPost
"Ever considered why no one ever had the idea of waving the Chinese flag and
petitioning the Chinese for change?"

You mean the same China that just cancelled the NBA playoff broadcasts because
a single NBA GM tweeted support for HK?
[https://www.foxbusiness.com/sports/nba-china-revenue-
busines...](https://www.foxbusiness.com/sports/nba-china-revenue-business-
sponsors) The same China that does not even allow the _emoji_ for Taiwan?
[https://qz.com/1723334/apple-removes-taiwan-flag-emoji-in-
ho...](https://qz.com/1723334/apple-removes-taiwan-flag-emoji-in-hong-kong-
macau-in-ios-13-1-1/)

Why indeed would they ask China to help Taiwan - China has made it incredibly
obvious they do not recognize Taiwan.

Considering China's past (hello Tiananmen Square) there is a history of
violent suppression of dissident thought or political opinion. The first
demand of the protesters is literally "Full withdrawal of the extradition
bill" \- where do you think they would be extradited to?

~~~
dirtyid
Insert list of western atrocities etc etc.

At the end of the day, HK fate is decided by appeasing to China not the west.
If you're going to wave the Chinese equivalent of alt right symbolism and
violently target mainlanders, they will be treated accordingly. Which btw by
all objective metrics have been exceedingly restraint for protests its size.
The point is, don't pretend this was a well intented or peaceful protest,
anyone who understands the subtext knows it's anything but.

~~~
PostPost
1\. You cannot wave your hand and say all countries are guilty of the same
atrocities or the same behavior. To this day, China continues to deny that
particular atrocity ever happened, and scrubs the internet it controls of any
such mention. Compare that to how Germany treats the history of the Nazi
Regime. It's night and day. HK wants a democratic voice - that shouldn't be
hard to understand.

2\. It's an incredibly bad argument that HK should be trying to peacefully win
over China to their cause given that China has made it absolutely clear that
they do not recognize HK.

3\. "If you're going to wave the Chinese equivalent of alt right symbolism and
violently target mainlanders, they will be treated accordingly." Is there a
'Worst of HN' I can submit this to? I haven't seen someone so bravely defend
fascist police brutality in quite awhile.

------
dkonofalski
Weird. Yesterday, people on here were accusing Apple of bowing to the Chinese
for this exact same app.

~~~
ootan
It's not weird. Apple reversed their decision and allowed the app on the App
Store. Now they are facing veiled threats from Chinese state media for doing
the right thing.

~~~
mercutio2
There was no reversal. It was new, and had never been approved.

It got through the approval process recently.

~~~
perennate
According to [1]: The app, known as HKmap.live, is a mobile version of a
website that helps users avoid potentially dangerous areas, according to the
developer, who uses the alias Kuma to remain anonymous. It was rejected from
Apple’s App Store because it "facilitates, enables, and encourages an activity
that is not legal," Apple told the developer, according to a copy of the
rejection notice seen by Bloomberg News. "Specifically, the app allowed users
to evade law enforcement," Apple wrote.

Bloomberg claims they saw the initial rejection notice, which was later
reversed.

[1] [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-03/apple-
rev...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-03/apple-reviews-
rejected-hong-kong-app-again-after-controversy)

~~~
mercutio2
I hadn’t seen that reporting.

What I meant was that it had never been approved, so the state never switched.

But you’re right, the reporting was that it was initially rejected, so I was
wrong.

------
mikelyons
Apple is sitting on cash reserves big enough that they could change the world
right now by pulling production out of China completely.

This would be a wild future.

------
zachguo
So the word 'attack' has a new meaning now?

~~~
0xffff2
What new meaning?

------
ycombonator
That didn’t take long. NBA, American Airlines, Blizzard, Marriot.. the list
grows. Soon they will have to ban rest of the 6 billion people.

~~~
puranjay
I wonder how much of this is because they know there is going to be a crash
soon and need to consolidate power and control the narrative internally before
it happens

~~~
Infinitesimus
I didn't consider that angle...

If this is the series of events that triggers the next global recession, it
gives both the US and Chinese govt enough fodder for propaganda about
"national security concerns" and how this is the other side's fault. Oy

------
vermontdevil
Apple is going to cave. And it’ll set a worse precedent because other
governments are going to demand backdoors etc.

~~~
dkonofalski
If Apple didn't cave to the US government, what makes you think they're going
to cave to China?

~~~
reaperducer
_If Apple didn 't cave to the US government, what makes you think they're
going to cave to China?_

Because it has, occasionally, in the past.

Apple doesn't have a perfect record when it comes to China. It's OK. I'm not
sure I'd call it "good."

But between the Taiwan flag emoji, and the Chinese iCloud fiasco, my esteem
for Apple is at an all-time low.

~~~
dkonofalski
Apple is required to follow the laws of the region in which their product is
used so both of those scenarios aren't Apple "caving" to China. Apple is just
following what they have to do for their software in those cases. In this
case, it's someone else's software and they chose not to "cave" because
there's no obligation on their part to take action since the app doesn't break
any rules or laws.

------
NicoJuicy
I'm an Android user, but this might be the first action of Apple that gets
some respect from me without alternative motives.

It would be one that makes me change to a more expensive platform in 3-6
months.

Nice

~~~
helpPeople
Apple has bent the knee plenty of times to China.

If you really are an Android user, this should not be news. You can put any
app on your device. Only Apple restricts you.

~~~
NicoJuicy
I did say it's the first time, didn't I

~~~
helpPeople
So why would you change to a less reliable company?

~~~
NicoJuicy
Not anymore ;)

------
paulcarroty
> This app is truly rioters’ friend. It helps criminals to circumvent and
> escape the police, get away with all their sabotage, vandalizing, and
> violences committed to anyone who doesn’t support them.

2.5/5 rating thanks to stupid Chinese bots.

[https://apps.apple.com/us/app/hkmap-
即時地圖/id1480938601](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/hkmap-即時地圖/id1480938601)

~~~
NicoJuicy
Easy way to flag Chinese bot accounts and delete them then

------
strooper
Western companies have been bending blatantly a little too low to save assets
and market shares in China. With trade war, human rights abuse in Xinjiang,
and Hong Kong protest, this is probably a good chance for the West to stand
against China's invasion.

~~~
ycombonator
No politician for the past 50 years stood up to China until Trump faced them
head on. Credit where it’s due.

~~~
vermontdevil
He sure isn’t standing up for Hong Kong. Jeez.

~~~
vuln
What does standing up for Hong Kong mean to you. What could Trump do to help?
Generally curious.

~~~
bluGill
Just recognizing HK and Taiwan as separate countries from China would be big.

~~~
jldugger
Recognizing HK as independent would be a huge step, and one even the UK didn't
take.

~~~
aianus
The UK wanted to give HK free elections and China threatened to invade if they
did.

[https://www.scmp.com/article/48108/thatcher-reveals-dengs-
th...](https://www.scmp.com/article/48108/thatcher-reveals-dengs-threat-seize-
hong-kong-day)

------
_bxg1
The China market is often framed as a mortal necessity for companies that have
no more room to grow stateside.

What we forget is that this assumes infinite corporate growth, which is
literally impossible, despite being demanded by shareholders. We need to drop
this notion that every single year has to result in growth. Corporations no
longer have the option of settling into a market segment and developing a
harmonious relationship with society. They grow like cancers, consuming
everything they possibly can ad infinitum, and this unquenchable hunger is the
only reason they find themselves making compromises to appease China.

~~~
oceanplexian
The problem is that most people would need to look in the mirror.

Do you have a 401k? Do you plan on having a retirement? Then infinite growth
needs to be a thing, otherwise that 7-9% a year that people think they are
"guaranteed" from index funds would evaporate. If people couldn't make money
off of passive investments it would turn the entire economy upside down.

~~~
_bxg1
You'd still get dividends.

This is the point of confusion: media often presents growth as == profit. But
growth is _growth_ in profit. The derivative of profit; expanding profits,
over time. A company that doesn't grow at all continues to output just as much
profit, just not _more_ profit.

~~~
0xffff2
Yes, but dividends aren't going to provide you with a 7% return, and most
people that can afford to plan for retirement on the basis of 7% returns can't
afford to do so on the basis of ~3-4% you might expect from dividends.

~~~
_bxg1
Sure. It wouldn't be a quick-fix; other parts of the system would have to
adjust. But it isn't fundamentally infeasible: there's still a positive flow.

------
throwawayjohnny
“Providing a gateway for ‘toxic apps’ is hurting the feelings of the Chinese
people"

Awww, your feelings got hurt? Care to think about the feelings of a million
Uighur people that are being tortured in concentration camps? Or the 7 million
Hongkongers that you've been trying bully into submission?

~~~
dang
Breaking the site guidelines like this will get your main account banned as
well, so please don't.

------
SomeOldThrow
I’ll admit, I don’t see apple supporting the equivalent app for, say, the US.

~~~
thoughtstheseus
I thought many GPS apps show speed traps and police checkpoints in real time?
Not a user and not identical but I assumed they did.

~~~
jowday
Even Google Maps shows speed traps now.

