
Introduction of C4 traits into rice to increase photosynthetic efficiency - kardashian007
https://c4rice.com/the-project-2/project-goals/
======
whyenot
_land that currently provides enough rice to feed 27 people will need to
support 43 by 2050_

if there were fewer mouths, you would need less rice. I realize it isn't an
area the Gates Foundation is active in, but there is quite a bit of evidence
that educating and empowering women reduces population growth[1]. In many
parts of the world women are still treated like property, forced into
marriage, and have no access to family planning or education.

1\. [https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-women-can-
sav...](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-women-can-save-the-
planet/)

~~~
me_again
Actually that is an area the Gates Foundation is active in:
[http://www.gatesfoundation.org/What-We-Do/Global-
Development...](http://www.gatesfoundation.org/What-We-Do/Global-
Development/Family-Planning)

~~~
tcj_phx
From your link:

>> Invest in New Contraceptive Methods

>> Some women do not access or use contraceptives for a variety of reasons,
even when they want to avoid pregnancy. They may have misconceptions about
their risk of becoming pregnant, or be deterred by the cost, inconvenience,
_or concerns about side effects._ ... "

The Gates Foundation is paying for "a reformulation of Pfizer’s Depo-Provera®
(medroxyprogesterone acetate)" [1]. The usual side effect of this drug is
gaining weight. Usually it's about 20 pounds. Some women gain 40+ pounds after
a few rounds of this drug [2].

[1] [http://www.gatesfoundation.org/Media-Center/Press-
Releases/2...](http://www.gatesfoundation.org/Media-Center/Press-
Releases/2012/07/Innovative-Partnership-to-Deliver-Convenient-Contraceptives-
to-up-to-Three-Million-Women) [2]
[https://www.reddit.com/user/ihateyoudepo](https://www.reddit.com/user/ihateyoudepo)

I suspect that the Depo Provera injections at about age 20 is what turned my
friend into a drug addict. Drug use caused her first psychotic episodes, and
her first court-ordered psychiatrists weren't smart enough to make the
connection between her previous use of a prescription endocrine disruptor
(Provera) and the following depression that she self-treated with street
drugs.

Anyone who uses Provera drug is ignorant of the harm it actually causes, or is
malicious.

edit: fixed italics above edit2: changed txt above to 'endocrine disruptor'

~~~
GFK_of_xmaspast
> I suspect that the Depo Provera injections at about age 20 is what turned my
> friend into a drug addict

Have you considered that post hoc is not necessarily proper hoc.

~~~
tcj_phx
> Have you considered that post hoc is not necessarily proper hoc.

Disruption of the endocrine glands is on the drug safety information [1]:

    
    
      Effects on the Hypothalmic-Pituitary-Adrenal Axis
    
      Some patients receiving medroxyprogesterone acetate may 
      exhibit suppressed adrenal function. Medroxyprogesterone 
      acetate may have cortisol-like glucocorticoid activity 
      and provide negative feedback to the hypothalamus or 
      pituitary. This may result in decreased plasma cortisol 
      levels, decreased cortisol secretion, and low plasma ACTH 
      levels. The use of DEPO-PROVERA Sterile Aqueous 
      Suspension may, due to its cortisol-like glucocorticoid 
      activity, also produce Cushingoid symptoms such as weight 
      gain, edema/fluid retention, and facial swelling.
    

[1]
[http://www.fda.gov/Safety/MedWatch/SafetyInformation/ucm2323...](http://www.fda.gov/Safety/MedWatch/SafetyInformation/ucm232329.htm)

edit: p.s. Thanks for commenting, I'd never looked at Depo Provera's safety
information before. Someone else had said that he thought that Depot-Provera's
FDA approval, in spite of what's known about it, is a good example of
'Regulatory Capture'. Psychosis is associated with cortisol deficiency [2], so
this safety information strongly supports my theory about the origin of my
friend's mental health struggles.

[2] [https://www.jcu.edu.au/news/releases/2016/june/stress-
hormon...](https://www.jcu.edu.au/news/releases/2016/june/stress-hormone-link-
with-psychosis)

------
teslabox
Rats consume a sizeable percentage of rice production. From an earlier story
[1]:

    
    
      The next call came from Australia in 2006. Biologists there
      wanted an adaptation of Mouseopause for rats. Rats, they told 
      her, were eating 30% of the rice crop in Australia and 
      Indonesia. If she could reduce the rat population by even half, 
      they claimed, the crops that would be saved could feed millions 
      of people.
    

[1] Man v rat: could the long war soon be over? (theguardian.com),
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12542718](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12542718)

Agricultural output is always variable. The world needs more storage capacity
[2], and to better support small farmers. There's the ancient parable about
"seven years of abundance" preceding "seven years of famine". Only "old" grain
should be fed to animals.

For the most part, genetic engineering has been used to sell pesticides. While
this C3->C4 innovation might not be as harmful as Monsanto's, it would be
better to deal with our other agricultural problems too. Getting rats' numbers
under control, and other low-tech investments (such as was undertaken in
Thailand starting in the 1960's [3]), would be just as effective as throwing
new seeds at farmers...

Haiti demonstrates that politics is the most important factor for determining
agricultural output. [4]

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grain_silo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grain_silo)
[3]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_production_in_Thailand](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_production_in_Thailand)
[4]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12531999](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12531999)
\- "Why Are Haiti's Coffee Trees So Tall?"

------
germinalphrase
One of the members of this team - Jane Langdale - did a talk at Stewart
Brand's Long Now Foundation.

Well worth a listen: [http://longnow.org/seminars/02016/mar/14/radical-
ag-c4-rice-...](http://longnow.org/seminars/02016/mar/14/radical-ag-c4-rice-
and-beyond/)

------
fulafel
We are using most of grown crops as feed in meat production. So we don't have
to increase production to keep up with population growth, the other option is
to cut down on conspicuous consumption in what we eat.

~~~
mcculley
Do you think that the majority of meat consumption is conspicuous consumption?

~~~
Kliment
I think a lot of it if force of habit combined with the externalities of meat
production not being reflected in the price of meat, making it cheaper to buy
than it is in terms of overall cost. Meat consumption is a cultural element as
well as a dietary one.

~~~
mcculley
I agree that habit is a big driver. I don't see how that makes it conspicuous
consumption.

------
djfm
_land that currently provides enough rice to feed 27 people will need to
support 43 by 2050_

Honest question: can't we assume that, as population grows, people will just
plant more rice?

Sure this cannot be done everywhere, but there's surely some arable land
somewhere that can grow, and maybe technology can help in other ways than by
manipulating the genome of plants.

For instance, if we had cheap energy or a very efficient desalinating tech, we
could desalinate ocean water and cultivate normal rice where there are deserts
now...

In France farmers are complaining that the prices of farm products are too low
and it sounds like there are many places where we produce way too much for too
few consumers.

Instead of playing god to reduce a risk in 2050, can't we try _right now_ to
find economical, political, or technical ways to take the surplus from one
place and bring it to places where food is _already_ dramatically lacking?

EDIT: formatting

~~~
swombat
Sure we can! Which rainforest do you want to cut down to make space for the
new fields?

------
makomk
This is an interesting proposal though I'm not sure it'll come to much. It's
an awful lot more complex than any of the commercial GM plants, requiring a
number of genes spread across multiple cells all of which need to be switched
on at the right time and place, plus structural changes to the plant leaves
whose genetic roots apparently aren't understood: [https://c4rice.com/the-
science/engineering-photosynthesis-wh...](https://c4rice.com/the-
science/engineering-photosynthesis-what-we-are-doing/)

~~~
jhou2
I agree. The researchers are aware of the challenge. There is so much we don't
know about the C4 pathway and then to somehow successfully merge parts of it
into a C3 plant. It might be easier to develop a C4 plant that can thrive in a
rice-centric environment.

------
partycoder
Reminds me of golden rice. It was created to solve nutritional deficiencies in
about the same populations, but didn't succeed. I hope this initiative does.

~~~
nbarbettini
Golden Rice isn't a failure, it just hasn't yet been deployed at a large
scale. The folks working on it have been making a lot of progress, but it's
been slow. (See
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_rice#Golden_Rice_2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_rice#Golden_Rice_2))

Sadly, part of the reason why it's been delayed is due to fearmongering by
groups like Greenpeace who are ideologically opposed to genetic engineering.

~~~
DanBC
> Sadly, part of the reason why it's been delayed is due to fearmongering by
> groups like Greenpeace who are ideologically opposed to genetic engineering.

Some of the delay was calm objection to massive corporations.
[http://whqlibdoc.who.int/bulletin/2000/Number%2010/78(10)new...](http://whqlibdoc.who.int/bulletin/2000/Number%2010/78\(10\)news.pdf)

Golden rice had a bunch of patents from over 20 organisations -- putting
farmers at risk of licence violation. Pressure from Greenpeace and WHO (and
WHO aren't known as a radical anti-GMO org) helped companies like Monsanto
declare that they wouldn't be using terminator genes and would allow farmers
to collect and sow some of their crop. (But only farmers who earn less than
$10,000 per year).

