
Meet the Lab Girl - dnetesn
http://nautil.us/issue/34/adaptation/ingenious-hope-jahren
======
Zikes
> I think wherever you look in the world, you see a field or an endeavor
> that’s not got women in it. You can ask yourself why aren’t there women
> there? And the answer is always the same: It’s because women aren’t welcome.

Does that include coal mining, construction, fishing, farming,
forestry/logging, waste disposal, protective services, dishwashing,
landscaping/groundskeeping, pest control, stonemasonry, flooring, plumbing,
highway maintenance, auto mechanics, HVAC, machining, welding, cabinetry,
wastewater treatment, and truck driving?

Or is it more likely that jobs that are extremely dangerous, highly stressful,
physically demanding, low pay, or any or all of the above just aren't very
attractive to women? I mean, they're not all that attractive to a lot of men,
either, so that's perfectly fine. I don't really like the thought of spending
weeks at a time on a small fishing trawler with a dozen other guys, myself,
especially if there's a 1 in 1,000 chance I'd die from it.

My aunt used to be a truck driver. She enjoyed it, the pay was decent and got
along great with a lot of the drivers she ran into. She also got mugged a few
times, often at gunpoint.

~~~
sneak
> Or is it more likely that jobs that are extremely dangerous, highly
> stressful, physically demanding, low pay, or any or all of the above just
> aren't very attractive to women? I mean, they're not all that attractive to
> a lot of men, either, so that's perfectly fine.

And you've hit on the point - jobs that aren't attractive to women aren't
attractive to men, either. The result is that women aren't there because
they're unwelcome, not because women shy away from "heavy" work.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
Or fewer men have a choice.

With some jobs they're not just unattractive but one is simply incapable of
meeting the physical demands. If you need to be stronger than 80% of men to be
able to do a job then there's going to be a vanishingly small percentage of
women able to do it. Then you need those women to have no better option, or a
strong desire to do that particular job, with a lot of jobs.

It's like jobs with lots of manual dexterity needed, if you have bigger hands
you can't do it well - this means women (and in some places children) have
these jobs.

~~~
DanBC
> It's like jobs with lots of manual dexterity needed, if you have bigger
> hands you can't do it well - this means women (and in some places children)
> have these jobs.

This kind of thing was said in the 60s when factory owners employed women.
"Nimble fingers!" The reason they said it was because unions were much weaker
at protecting women's rights, and so bosses could pay women considerably less
for work of equivalent skill. That's what the Dagenham strikes were about.
That was in 1968 so it's really weird to hear it still being said today.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_sewing_machinists_strike_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_sewing_machinists_strike_of_1968)

~~~
pbhjpbhj
I get my kids to help with things that require holding small objects, my
fingers just can't grip them well. When I'm teaching pottery I find men can
manage to work the clay (needs muscle) but women are much better where more
dexterity is needed.

Perhaps it served the purposes of factory owners to emphasise it but I'd
assumed that was why factories globally [seemingly] have more women doing
soldering of components and placing of electronics in to casings and such. I
spend a good deal of time looking at other people's hands (pottery workshops)
and find as a generality that women do have more nimble fingers and less upper
body strength (of course it's a distribution that overlaps); nimbleness might
be down to other activities rather than being inherent in females but that
wouldn't stop more females having roles that favour nimbleness.

Using a sewing machine for large items like car upholstery I can't see hand-
size being terribly important; I've moderately large hands and never had a
problem with using a sewing machine - I can't manage needle and thread too
well though. That said your link seems to concern the general idea of paying
women less conflated with a specific job being degraded in value rather than
the idea of men/womens general body sizes being pertinent to suitability for
certain jobs.

------
ZenoArrow
Great article, interesting questions and engaging answers. I especially liked
the way the interviewee brought in conflicting perspectives, such as the
enlightenment view of nature vs. the romantic view of nature in the debate
around what's best for the environment.

