

Ask HN: How do you politely decline a project? - bphogan

I've quoted a project to a client (a nonprofit professional organization). It's a rescue mission - they paid a previous developer a nominal fee to build a web application, and many pieces no longer work due to changes in program language versions on the shared host.<p>I provided a few options, including leaving things as-is but moving to a different host with versions of the libraries that work with the app, or simply paying my non-profit client hourly rate to fix the problems.<p>They said my estimate was too high, and now they want to meet to discuss the requirements and cost. I'm not really interested in negotiating my rate on this project because I don't need the work, I'm already charging a lower rate because they are a true nonprofit, and whenever haggling over rates comes up this early, I know that collecting my fee is going to be difficult no matter what I charge.<p>But I'm also not interested in coming off like an arrogant jerk. So, any advice? Interested to hear how you politely walk away from deals.<p>[edited for formatting]
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milesf
I used to feel like an arrogant jerk when I said no to work, especially if
there's a family connection or non-profit involved. At the same time I've
admired others who have been able to say no to the same sort of things,
wishing I could do the same.

One of my favourite books "Boundaries" helped me learn that it's actually good
to be able to say no to some things. I used to feel that if I didn't say yes
to everything, that made me a bad person. I would later beat up on myself
because when I said yes to too many things, I became burned out and resentful.
I highly recommend a copy of that book or something similar (Boundaries is
from a Christian perspective, which may turn some people off).

I recently said no to some computer work for a friend of my parents. I think
my dad assumed I would do it for him, and stated that I needed to go over and
help him. I said "I'm sorry but I don't do consulting work anymore. I only
help immediate family with computer related issues". No explanation or
rationalization, just a polite but firm statement about what I am willing to
do and what I'm not willing to do. I think my dad was a bit miffed (probably
because he told his friend he would send his son over to help, saving him some
money) but I'd rather have my dad respect me and the boundaries I've set than
to try and make him like me all the time.

Do I feel like a jerk anymore? No, not really. I work long hours, have a wife
and two children to support, and have projects outside of work that require a
commitment. Saying yes to other things takes away from my wife and children,
and it depletes me from being able to do my best.

Learning to say no is a skill that you can build. It's not about the phrasing
or clever wording, it's learning to demarcate what you are willing and what
you are not willing to do. It's also very liberating knowing that you don't
have to be overcommitted and stressed out. You have a choice.

------
Avonelle
You don't have to negotiate fees - if you reducing the requirements by the
appropriate cost, you aren't haggling over the rate. And while I know the kind
of customer you mean, a price sensitive customer isn't necessarily one who
won't pay on time. I have a non-profit customer who is very price sensitive,
but is one of my most reliable in terms of on-time payment.

If you are set on turning down the work, you can say that you have a minimum
project size for first time customers. This isn't uncommon - a lot of people
aren't interested in taking on tiny projects from new customers. You have a
certain target client/project you are interested in, and changing the
requirements won't fit that anymore.

Or you can tell them that quality is very important to you, and you don't
recommend that they try to complete the project by cutting some of the
requirements. You couldn't in good conscience work on that type of project,
and if that is the direction they are going, you will not be a good resource
for them. That's not impolite - that's true.

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atgm
"I'm sorry, but these are the rates I offer to non-profit agencies. Please
understand that these rates are already much lower than my standard rates and
as such, are non-negotiable. If you decide to pursue either of the two
solutions we have discussed, contact me and I will be glad to help you at the
rate I have given you.

I wish you nothing but the best in the future.

Regards, Name"

Something like that? Honest, polite, but to-the-point.

~~~
zachallaun
I believe that this method offers another benefit:

That the organization is a nonprofit does not require their team to be
pleasant employers. Responding in such a manner as described by atgm allows
you to judge their character a bit better. You're being respectful of their
needs, but firm in your own. If you get an angry, abusive response, then you
know that you made an excellent choice in not choosing to work for them. If
you get a polite, understanding response, then perhaps you can bend your rates
slightly, as they may be a better customer than you initially believed.

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slater
Stick to your guns and refuse to re-negotiate your rates. That's not being
arrogant (regardless of whether it's a non-profit, or a Fortune 500 company
you're doing the work for). Your rates are your rates, and if they trot out
the "Johnny the neighbor's kid who'll do it for $50" line, you're better off
without them as a client. I'd say they're being arrogant for trying to
"discuss" the cost.

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andrewtbham
My suggestion is, in the future, always ask for more than you think you can
get up front. That way if they want to negotiate you can knock a little off
and not worry about it. You might want to read a book on negotiations. I
suggest "Secrets of power negotiators.

One very humble approach might be to say... "I am not a good negotiator and i
have already give you my bottom line price."

In regards to not coming off like an arrogant jerk... you can't control how
people perceive you. If they are saying things and you feel like an arrogant
jerk, you're probably being manipulated and might be interested in reading a
book about assertiveness like "When I say no, I feel guilty"... which says
when people in business relationships criticize you, you should obliquely
agree and reassert what you want... "I see how I might be coming off like an
arrogant jerk, but I'm still not interested in lowering my rate."

~~~
bphogan
These are great suggestions. I've read the first title you suggested, but the
second intrigues me. In this situation we're just a little beyond both of
these. I'm just interested in the advice of the community and how others
handle these situations.

------
millerc
Another angle would be to go to the meeting to discuss scope, under the
condition that he pays for your time at your stated rate. This drives home the
point that your fees are non-negotiable, while still listening to what he has
to say.

I deal daily with program managers who specialize in getting you to the table
with a legitimate request, then pull you into a weakened position after you
said an initial "yes".

"Discuss requirements" - who could oppose to that? He can easily make the
point that the main reason for the large cost is that he had a much smaller
scope in head. He might not understand that the project is larger than he
thinks due to dependencies. At worst, he might not care.

Listen to what he has to say, take a cool-off period, double-check yourself to
see whether you're being pulled in something that might turn sour, and provide
a revised quote.

------
brudgers
The graceful way to decline is to promptly send a written proposal reflecting
the quoted rate. Personally, I would include a healthy retainer to be applied
against final invoice and call it a day.

Most of the time, these things are fishing expeditions. They are either
willing to pay and just trying to get the upper hand, or they are going to
shop your price around and go with the lowest bidder. Either way, putting your
proposal in writing means that they will be the one's who decline, not you.

"Non-profit" does not mean charity, and a professional organization's members
typically don't provide discounts to hackers. Once you discounted your rates
you put the value of your time on par with the person who accepted "a nominal
fee" for the previous work.

~~~
bphogan
There's a lot of truth to what you're saying and I appreciate the feedback. I
do, however, believe in providing discounts to non-profits, educational
institutions, and charities, and while that may mean that I'm a bit of a
sucker, I can live with myself because I like to see those places succeed.

The entity we're talking about here is a true non-profit organization, and the
problem we're running into is that they want to know how much it's going to
cost, and I can't tell them because frankly, I charge by the hour and I don't
know what kinds of bugs are going to show up when I fix the ones we know
about.

So that makes it a little harder to write up the SoW. But that's a whole other
topic. :)

~~~
brudgers
Making one's services affordable isn't being a sucker in my book...I've done
work _pro bono_ at times. The issue I see is that they are not valuing your
time - meeting to negotiate your rate is disrespectful of your time. If they
have a budget, then they should tell you what it is so you're not playing
twenty questions. If they don't have a budget to share with you, then again
they are being disrespectful of your time.

After a bit of sleep, I would recommend offering migration to a compatible
sever as the only option and provide an hourly-not-to-exceed proposal with a
healthy retainer. The retainer should be the minimum due under the contract
(in other words, it's a flat rate if you wrap the project up in a few hours).
Hourly-not-to-exceed work is helpful because it provides meaningful feedback
on one's estimating skills.

Rewriting the application will almost inevitably entail feature creep (which
may be an actual goal). Providing an initial proposal which migrates to a new
server allows you to negotiate if a rewrite and new features are really what
they really want.

------
eps
If you are not comfortable just saying "not interested" (which gets much
easier after the first time), say that you have picked up another long term
project, which requires your full attention. If they keep insisting and saying
it would only take 5 minutes of your time, counter with "I don't want to get
involved in something that I cannot dedicate enough attention to". If they
keep further insisting, then they are either dumb and not getting the hints or
they want to take advantage of you. In either case the next thing to say -
"not interested, bye".

Don't fret, just say how it is. Start politely and escalate as needed.

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noodle
negotiate scope, not rates. its likely that they're in the mess they're in
because they went bargain hunting.

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gallerytungsten
Write a nice letter thanking them for the opportunity and refer them to
someone else. Don't offer an excuse, just say you've decided to pass on the
project.

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toblender
No is a powerful tool use it often.

