
SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year - runesoerensen
http://www.spacex.com/news/2017/02/27/spacex-send-privately-crewed-dragon-spacecraft-beyond-moon-next-year
======
ChuckMcM
Wow. This sends so many thoughts cascading through my head that I'm dizzy.

Some things to consider, China has been working up to getting a space
capability to send people to the Moon with the full backing of the government
funding, by 2035[1]. They started in 2003. SpaceX was founded in 2002 and they
are saying they will fly someone around the moon next year? Dragon has the
deltaV to land on the moon (not sure if it has enough to get off again though)
and SpaceX certainly has the expertise in building spacecraft that land.

The next person to take a picture of the Earth from moon may not be on a
government funded mission. That one really blows my mind. For so long it was
only countries that could do something like that, now it is nearly within
reach of individuals.

The UN has treaties about claiming (or not) the moon by a nation state, but
there isn't anything about a privately funded and established outpost that
wants to declare independence. All this time I imagined that some country
would establish a base there, and grudgingly offer up some space for non-state
use, and now there is this possibility of a private facility that states have
to ask permission to visit? That is priceless.

[1] [http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2016/04/29/man-on-the-
moo...](http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2016/04/29/man-on-the-moon-china-
sets-lunar-mission-date/)

~~~
hackuser
> The next person to take a picture of the Earth from moon may not be on a
> government funded mission.

Note that the press release says:

 _Most importantly, we would like to thank NASA, without whom this would not
be possible. NASA’s Commercial Crew Program, which provided most of the
funding for Dragon 2 development, is a key enabler for this mission._

Your tax dollars, if you are American, helped pay for this. Thank you and
congratulations - if it works out; if not, was it worth the risk?

EDIT: In response to many below, remember that the U.S. military isn't the
only alternative use of the money. Taxpayers could keep it, or it could go to
other programs such as education and health. (Personally, I'd happily pay more
taxes for more space exploration, education, health, and military necessary
for security.)

~~~
ChuckMcM
As a taxpayer (who was just reminded this past weekend of how much that is :-)
I'm really glad that NASA had enough budget to spend on the Commercial Crew
program. Given that the NASA budget of $18.5B[1] is a rounding error on the
overall budget $3,540B[2], seriously it's a half a percent. And commercial
crew was only $1.2B [ibid] of that NASA budget. So less than .05%. Again
rounding error.

And with that money they are getting _two_ different spacecraft that can fly
missions. So I think it was a great way for NASA to contract out the
development of a crew capsule they could use on their missions.

That one of the companies that participated has done so in such a way that
they can make a commercially feasible 'tourist' vehicle out of it? That blows
my mind.

[1]
[https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/NASA_FY_2016_...](https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/NASA_FY_2016_Budget_Estimates.pdf)

[2] [https://www.cbo.gov/topics/budget](https://www.cbo.gov/topics/budget)

~~~
Cerium
If instead of increasing military spending 54 billion, we gave it all to NASA,
we could be quadrupling NASA's budget.

~~~
Tepix
NASA should pass it on to Elon.

If we establish a permanent Mars colony, that would really increase security
for all of mankind.

Building more nuclear weapons is NOT increasing security.

------
ironchief
It is very likely Steve Jurveston.

1\. In a comment about the announcement alluded to it as a "recurring
dream"[1]

2\. 5 years ago, described a moon orbit as "when I plan to fly in space. I
have two specific missions in mind"[2]

3\. SpaceX Board Member and investor

4\. Has the money

5\. Knows Elon "Mr Musk declined to reveal their identities, only saying that
they knew each other"[3]

6\. Is "nobody from Hollywood"

7\. Liked this comment on his FB wall "Can I tag along?!? Ahhhhh!!!"[4]

[1][https://www.flickr.com/photos/jurvetson/23226164619](https://www.flickr.com/photos/jurvetson/23226164619)

[2][https://www.flickr.com/photos/jurvetson/7659357718](https://www.flickr.com/photos/jurvetson/7659357718)

[3][http://www.bbc.com/news/science-
environment-39111030](http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-39111030)

[4][https://www.facebook.com/jurvetson/posts/10158310863860611?c...](https://www.facebook.com/jurvetson/posts/10158310863860611?comment_id=10158311172520611&include_parent=false)

~~~
walkingolof
5) According to another source, he did not say that he knew any of them, but
rather that the two passengers knew each other.

Source: [http://spaceflightnow.com/2017/02/27/spacex-to-send-two-
priv...](http://spaceflightnow.com/2017/02/27/spacex-to-send-two-private-
citizens-around-the-moon-and-back/)

~~~
elsewhen
can you provide the exact quote from the article that indicates that musk does
not know the two passengers? i read through the article twice and cannot seem
to find it. perhaps the publication removed a sentence?

------
runesoerensen
_> We are excited to announce that SpaceX has been approached to fly two
private citizens on a trip around the moon late next year. They have already
paid a significant deposit to do a moon mission._

Can't wait to hear who booked this trip! Definitely one of the coolest ways to
spend a lot of superfluous money :)

~~~
mmaunder
It could be Elon.

~~~
archon810
Nah, if Elon is going somewhere, it's deeper underground with his giant bore.

------
grouplinkdave
About 20 years ago as a young engineer I was given the opportunity to propose
some solutions to NASA, and was invited to the Kennedy Space Center’s LCC for
the presentation. Prior to meeting with the exec team at the LCC they took me
on a tour of the VAB, where I saw all the operations and was allowed to take
digital images of some of the vehicle assembly and maintenance operations to
demonstrate possible improvements. Such great energy at the whole KSC. What an
honor to be there to feel that passion and gratitude!

Last month I was again at the KSC and LCC as a tourist, and the energy was
just a minute fraction of what I'd seen 20 years before. We need this kind of
vision [from SpaceX and others, e.g., like this other NASA-based article today
with the young engineer comments, who did the hydroponics in microgravity at
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13743196](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13743196)
] to push science and technology beyond the video game and entertainment
markets. Congratulations to SpaceX, the microgravity hydroponics engineer, and
the others with vision who are once-again elevating the bright eyes of
brilliant youth, scientists and engineers.

------
davidklemke
Absolutely incredible. This will be the furthest that humanity has journeyed
away from Earth in a very long time.

However it is worth noting that there hasn't been a single crewed Dragon
flight yet. There are demonstator flights scheduled for this year though with
the first NASA crewed mission slated for May 2018. That's an incredibly
aggressive timeline but if anyone can achieve it, SpaceX can.

The long duration flight beyond the moon will be a fantastic proving ground,
however.

~~~
marcofloriano
> That's an incredibly aggressive timeline

Sometimes i wonder if that's an strategy from the management team to put
pressure in the engineers.

~~~
ehnto
In the same way that hitting a stuck bolt with a hammer is a strategy. It
applies pressure sure, but you break your tools and the nut gets stripped.

It seems to a preferred motivation method though.

~~~
robotresearcher
It worked before. Kennedy's moon shot speech was 8 years and 2 months before
Apollo 11 landed on the moon. The speech was made _before_ the US had put a
person in orbit.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0T1ztqhYQ7g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0T1ztqhYQ7g)

~~~
makomk
Of course, that time around it lead to the Apollo 1 fire killing the first
crew in on-the-ground testing before they even got as far as trying to launch
them into Earth orbit. Probably not something to be looked up to.

~~~
nickff
I would bet that the astronauts in the Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo programs
thought there would be more than one fatal spacecraft failure by the end of
Apollo. A number of astronauts (who never got to space) also died during
training (in aircraft crashes in other incidents).

------
suprgeek
While this feat depends on hitting a lot of intermediate milestones - Falcon
Heavy Test, Crew Dragon Unmanned to ISS, Crew Dragon manned to ISS, etc, there
is no "show-stopper" that is apparent right now.

I like how they have avoided committing to the much harder "landing on the
Moon and then return" scenario.

~~~
dwringer
We choose to not go to the moon, but do the other things, not because they are
hard, but because they are relatively easy, and we can make a quick buck.

~~~
gleenn
Everyone replying is missing this oppositized JFK quote: "We choose to go to
the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy,
but because they are hard."

-JFK

~~~
hsod
I don't think anyone is missing that, cutesy little jokes like that just don't
tend to do well here on HN.

~~~
mark-r
I think possibly _lots_ of people are missing it. How well known is Kennedy's
speech for those who weren't alive at the time? And yes it was a joke, but
contained within the joke is a pointed commentary.

~~~
hsod
I think it's one of the most famous quotations in the country (it has it's own
wikipedia page[0]), and the reference wasn't exactly subtle. I'm betting most
downvoters (myself included) got the reference.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_choose_to_go_to_the_Moon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_choose_to_go_to_the_Moon)

------
hackuser
Note that NASA, I believe at Trump's urging, recently said they would try to
place humans on the first flight of the Space Launch System (the new heavy
lift rocket) - i.e., no unmanned testing first.

[https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/15/science/nasa-looks-to-
spe...](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/15/science/nasa-looks-to-speed-
timetable-for-putting-astronauts-in-deep-space.html)

Is Musk still maintaining a relationship with Trump? When Uber founder Travis
Kalanick left Trump's business council, Musk was still on it AFAIK. I wonder
if Musk is doing this or announcing it for related reasons. Certainly Trump
has a history, even in his short tenure, of pressuring businesses into
announcements that suit his agenda. And the announcement seems to fit Trump's
pattern: Impossible, brazen bravado. (Musk gives the impossible some
credibility, but that's what is meant by lending someone your credibility.)

It's speculative, but it's also sad and a bad sign when we must look for
government interference in the free market at this level, to provide
propaganda for the President.

~~~
Maultasche
NASA agreed to do a study to see if they could place humans on the test
flight. That seems to me like the NASA equivalent of saying "Sure, I'll look
into that" while trying to not look horrified.

I'm pretty sure that study will conclude that this is a bad idea.

~~~
hackuser
I sure hope so! I wouldn't want to be on that flight.

The NASA article brought to mind a story of a well-known Cosmonaut knowingly
launching in an unreliable vehicle because the politicians insisted. He died.
He flew because he didn't want his understudy to be killed in his place. (I'm
sure someone on HN knows the story better than I do ...).

~~~
rst
That sounds like Soyuz 1.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soyuz_1](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soyuz_1)

------
Gravityloss
I find this schedule very very unlikely. No humans have flown in the Dragon at
all yet. Also none on any of SpaceX:s rockets. There have been lots of launch
and pad failures.

I'm cheering for SpaceX for doing more towards spacefaring, but I'm very
skeptical and think this will, at least, end up being negative PR to them,
and, at worst, a lot more.

~~~
misnome
I'm glad to see somebody questioning the timescale. There is definitely a huge
blind spot around Musk around here.

~~~
aerovistae
I'm the biggest fan of Elon there is, I'm pretty sure, but this still makes me
nervous.

The timescale is bullshit-- the past two failures have both pushed things back
a ways, and at this point I'm not optimistic there won't be more failures soon
(although I strongly believe they'll succeed completely in the long term
regardless). Things would have to go _perfectly_ for this timescale to
actually happen.

But what really makes me nervous is the thought of it going wrong and people
dying. That would be pretty terrible. I feel like they need to do a lot more
testing before they can send anyone around the moon in a mere 18-20months.
That's just too soon. F9 is still having confusing failures after years in
service. Falcon Heavy hasn't even flown once yet, nor Dragon 2.

~~~
aoeu345
"What if it's late," "What if someone dies", "It has to go perfectly or else."
Mate there's no reason to slow down or criticize science and engineering for
being late, having a death, or riding the razor's edge. Just get shit done.
That's all that matters, this kind of internet fear-mongering is absolutely
detrimental, even if there are huge risks involved in the process. We're not
going to mess up the planet, but nay-sayers will absolutely slow us down.

------
jansen
A quote from an article on the Verge says "Musk declined to comment on the
exact cost of the trip, but said it was “comparable” or a little more than the
cost of a crewed mission to the International Space Station."

Does anyone have a rough estimate how much a manned mission to the ISS
currently costs?

~~~
goshx
$82 millions according to the announcer at Kennedy Space Center while I was
waiting for the Falcon 9 launch.

~~~
redant
Are you talking about unmanned mission? Because he specifically mentioned
crewed mission.

~~~
goshx
I am talking about the price Russia charges the US to send one human to the
ISS. I guess the announcer wasn't correct. That amount would be for 2018.

[http://www.businessinsider.com/astronaut-cost-per-soyuz-
seat...](http://www.businessinsider.com/astronaut-cost-per-soyuz-seat-2016-9)

------
avmich
> "Falcon Heavy is due to launch its first test flight this summer and, once
> successful, will be the most powerful vehicle to reach orbit after the
> Saturn V moon rocket."

SpaceX at its usual :) . By which criteria Energiya is less powerful vehicle
to reach orbit than Falcon Heavy?

~~~
wavefunction
I think it's a bit of weird language. From comparing what specs I could find
Energia had significantly greater LEO capacity (200% of Falcon Heavy), and a
slight advantage in GTO payloads, a slight disadvantage at trans-lunar
payloads and has no capacity at all for trans-Martian payloads where the
Falcon Heavy can deliver 14,000kg/14 tonnes/30864.717lbs of payload.

So I think they are claiming that title due to Energia dropping off after
trans-lunar ranges assuming Falcon Heavy reaches "orbit" and then travels
further beyond.

------
ChrisBland
Best news I've heard today, if I had that much $ I too would want to do
something that only a handful of humans have ever experienced. If Elon reads
this I will give you everything in my bank account and everything I will earn
in the next 5 years to orbit the earth. It has been a dream of mine and seeing
the privatization of space flight gets me so excited for the future. Sucks to
be my kids as I hope I get to blow their inheritance on a trip to the moon.

------
ktta
I wonder if it is going to be only two people who are going to go. Will they
add more people if they come forward with significant amount of money too?

Seems to me like the cost of taking in another person will be negligible in
comparison to the funding they could contribute. This is literally a one-in-a-
lifetime experience

~~~
edsouza
The two private citizens will need a support team in capsule unless they are
experienced astronauts and have the technical skills to learn all the systems
on the dragon crew capsule.

~~~
avar
Do you have a source stating that the people crewing the Dragon would need to
do anything at all? Won't it just be on autopilot, what duties is the crew of
the capsule expected to perform?

~~~
euyyn
_If_ something bad happens, you don't want to say "oh well, guess I should
have sent an expert with them after all."

~~~
jessaustin
Why do we expect that an "expert" could do anything for an automated craft?
Will there be soldering involved? Changing batteries? Rather than allowing for
such things, just build more redundancy. Unlike Apollo, this program will have
access to powerful computers and other electronic components.

Where would one find an expert in lunar circumnavigation?

~~~
euyyn
Planes can take off, fly, and land themselves. Do you expect that a pilot can
do anything for it? They don't solder anything, nor change batteries.

> Where would one find an expert in lunar circumnavigation?

The branch of astronautics that deals with navigation in space is called
Astrodynamics. It is taught at universities across the world. You can find
experts among the astronauts of the various space agencies. Or you can train
your own, the same way those agencies do.

~~~
jessaustin
Which planes are these? I've never seen an autopilot that could take off or
land.

The people who need to know astrodynamics are those who plan the tour. They
will encode all the maneuvers required before launch. In the exceedingly
unlikely event that corrections need to be made, they'll be made by radio.
Even if they wasted an $80M berth on a pilot, where would she practice
twiddling the knobs?

~~~
euyyn
> Which planes are these? I've never seen an autopilot that could take off or
> land.

Have you seen many autopilots, to be that certain?

Civil planes equipped with autoland are commonplace.

Some fighter jets take off from carriers in autopilot. The pilots are actually
required to grab a couple of handlebars in the cabin during take off, to make
sure their instinct doesn't overcome them.

> In the exceedingly unlikely event that corrections need to be made

The set of bad things that can happen in a complex spacecraft isn't limited to
needing a route correction. That is obvious, but even if it wasn't obvious to
someone, history tells us.

> where would she practice twiddling the knobs?

Do you honestly think astronauts go to space untrained, because "where would
they practice"?

They practice in simulators. Even the two tourists will have to be trained,
for obvious reasons.

------
dalbasal
I love that a moon mission is a milestone en route to SpaceX' moonshot, not
the moonshot itself. We need new idioms for these people.

~~~
rkuykendall-com
It may seem less weird as trips to the moon become more common. We still use
"flew too close to the sun" even though human powered flight at high altitudes
is now common. It's more about the story of the original moonshot.

~~~
gydfi
But flying close to the sun is still really bad. It's just we've never got
close enough to the sun for it to be a problem.

------
rodionos
Shouldn't they consider a staged approach, not unlike FDA trials. Start with a
Laika dog, proceed with a chimp, as all other space programs have done in the
past?

Also, if this succeeds, what happens to Google's moonshot projects? Is
rebranding in the works?

~~~
M_Grey
Probably they should.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13745315](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13745315)

~~~
godelski
Well there's a huge difference when talking about radiation exposures going to
the moon and Mars. For one you don't expect a solar event to happen, you
really hope one doesn't, when going to the moon. Going to Mars you expect a
few.

With cosmic radiation we're talking about the difference between a few days
and a year. Plus you have to have pretty good shielding when crossing the Van
Allen belts.

You can consider the Apollo missions the trial phases. We learned a lot there.

~~~
M_Grey
I'm less worried about this mission, and more than it's going to give people
an (increasingly) false confidence that we're ready for Mars.

~~~
godelski
Ah, in that context, yes. We'll have to see a lot about the flight performance
of the Heavy and whatever crew capsule they come up with. I would imagine they
would do it similar to how the Apollo missions were done. First you do the
dress rehearsal where no one lands. They could use that mission to put
supplies in orbit as well. For Mars, they might need more than one. I'll be
interested in what they come up with, but I still think their goal of 2025 is
pretty quick. Doable, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

~~~
M_Grey
Mars as a goal is laudable, but 2025 strikes me as more likely to be
murderous. There's no doubt that human lives can grease the wheels of
progress, and often have in the past. I feel like people have already accepted
that as the way space will be too, when it still doesn't have to be... yet.

------
DanielBMarkham
Huge SpaceX fan here, but I've heard from various news sources that the
company is famous for aggressively posting dates and then slowly letting them
slide. Might that be the case here? (Still, even if it's 2 or 3 years, wow!)

~~~
cletusw
The main factor supporting their claim is that they have a very strong
incentive to be ferrying crew to/from the ISS around this time, so barring any
big mishaps with Falcon Heavy (supposed to be ready this summer/fall), all the
pieces should be in place if not by next year, then certainly just a year or
two later. Which, as you mentioned, is just as impressive!

~~~
DanielBMarkham
This is what I'm referring to:

 _"...The draft report from the GAO, which is Congress’ investigative arm,
also concluded that neither SpaceX nor the Boeing Co. is likely to conduct
regular space taxi flights to the space station by 2018..."_

[http://www.geekwire.com/2017/gao-journal-spacex-rocket-
turbo...](http://www.geekwire.com/2017/gao-journal-spacex-rocket-turbopump-
cracking/)

~~~
cletusw
Could be true, but SpaceX President Gwynne Shotwell challenged that report
directly:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjXYSJF-7Cs&t=16m31s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjXYSJF-7Cs&t=16m31s)

~~~
thelambentonion
Shotwell's response is in the best interests of her company, but SpaceX is (as
well as Boeing) woefully behind on a reasonable timeline to reach human-rated
flight for both their rocket and crew module.

We should have learned from both the early Apollo program, and the Shuttle
failures, that human lives shouldn't be treated as expendable capital in this
industry.

Both SpaceX's current announcement, and the US Gov's desire to put humans on
the first flight SLS flight, are deeply troubling in that regard.

------
joshuakcockrell
> This presents an opportunity for humans to return to deep space for the
> first time in 45 years and they will travel faster and further into the
> Solar System than any before them.

Shocking that it's been this long. There is an entire generation that hasn't
seen man make it into deep space.

------
_ph_
This is exciting news. Some time ago, looking at the F9 Heavy, it seemed to me
that SpaceX could fly to the moon with it anytime they decided to. Of course
their focus is the Mars. But in the day and age of multi-billionaires and the
commercial availability of space flights via SpaceX, this makes absolutely
sense. Private funding could push space flights much quicker ahead.

------
gigatexal
Finally the tin-foil hats can be satiated when these tourists see the 50-ish
year old flag on the moon.

~~~
jacquesm
60-ish? More like 50-ish. I remember those landings and I'm nowhere near 60.

Weirdest thing, I can't delete this comment now that the other comment has
been fixed.

~~~
tshannon
Maybe they used an old flag?

------
clebio
> ... two private citizens ... have already paid a significant deposit to do a
> moon mission. Like the Apollo astronauts before them, these individuals will
> travel into space carrying the hopes and dreams of all humankind ...

Except that these two private citizens are presumably absurdly wealthy.
Whereas the nationalize space program which brought forth the Apollo mission
gave _all_ private citizens, as well as schoolchildren for generations, hope
and aspirational outlooks.

Whereas the current national situation in the US, with respect to primary-
school education and government-supported science is quite dire. So things are
not at all hopeful right now, and many of us suffer nightmares of violence and
deportation.

So, there's that.

~~~
gozur88
>Except that these two private citizens are presumably absurdly wealthy.
Whereas the nationalize space program which brought forth the Apollo mission
gave all private citizens, as well as schoolchildren for generations, hope and
aspirational outlooks.

I doubt it's any more difficult to get absurdly wealthy than to become an
astronaut.

~~~
zardo
I'm sure they only sell you a ticket if you pulled yourself up out of the
slums by your own bootstraps. No old money allowed.

~~~
gozur88
What's your point?

~~~
peteretep
Being born wealthy doesn't require much expended effort from the recipient of
the wealth.

~~~
gozur88
Which is relevant how?

~~~
peteretep

        > I doubt it's any more difficult to
        > get absurdly wealthy than to become
        > an astronaut
    

Not very many people are born as astronauts, but some people are born very
wealthy.

~~~
gozur88
Yes, but the point was if you're not born wealthy you probably have a better
chance of _becoming_ wealthy than becoming a NASA astronaut.

Also, why do some people think being born with money is somehow bad, but being
born with intelligence and drive is good? Aren't they both down to luck?

------
jbmorgado
Well in a way these are fantastic news. But on the other side they are totally
reckless news.

What if the Sun has a SEP event during that period? Everyone on board will die
in the period from hours to days from exposure to radiation.

We presently have absolutely no knowledge on how to predict that this will
happen or to protect a ship in case it happens.

The Moon missions where done before we knew of the existence of SEPs and
fortunately we were lucky... but we are not supposed to just rely on luck now
that we know they exist.

------
johngalt
Next year seems extremely ambitious. Wouldn't humans next year, mean non-
crewed test flight this year?

------
c-slice
I wonder what NASA is thinking about this? The NASA Commercial Crew program
which helped fund the development of the Dragon was funded for manned flight
to the ISS. I'm curious if they see this as part of the project scope?

~~~
berberous
Read the article: "By also flying privately crewed missions, which NASA has
encouraged, long-term costs to the government decline and more flight
reliability history is gained, benefiting both government and private
missions."

------
kbenson
So, what happens when you take a moon hoaxer, and I mean a really ardent
believer, and fly them around the moon? Presumably they've already seen much
of the evidence we've been there multiple times before and discounted it in
lieu of some more more fanciful (in our eyes) explanation. Does that shatter
when you're looking at the moon through a porthole, or do you explain it away
somehow?

I find it interesting, because usually conspiracy theorists can't really be
presented with enough _hard_ evidence to replicate the scenario in question.

------
Mendenhall
I want to know what the insurance company of the private citizens says to
this.

~~~
rev_null
I'm more interested in knowing how google plans to insure both Larry and
Sergey while they're engaging on such a dangerous mission.

------
ogezi
I wonder who the people going on this trip are. Are they billionaires, a rich
couple planning a honeymoon. You'd have to be rich to do this right? I also
wonder which kind of insurance both Spacex and the individuals have for this.

It's amazing that private companies are now doing things that were previously
only one by governments and nations.

I don't know how this will work out but congratulations to Musk, Spacex and
NASA.

~~~
briandear
That's really stretching the definition of private company considering NASA is
the major provider of both funding and infrastructure.

~~~
adventured
It's not stretching the definition _at all_.

You can hardly be a large business in any developed nation without having
substantial business relationships with various world governments.

See: Microsoft, Cisco, Oracle, Boeing, Caterpillar, Lockheed Martin, Ford, GM,
3M, Berkshire Hathaway, General Electric, etc.

Might as well pretend Medtronic, Pfizer or Johnson & Johnson aren't private,
because they do so much business with government healthcare systems.

~~~
someguydave
I for one consider such companies to be quasi-government organizations.
Especially to the degree that their products are purchased by the government
via something other than a open market bid.

~~~
prewett
Dell doesn't purchase from Microsoft at an open market bid, either. No big
organization purchases at open market bid if they can help it. In contrast,
the U.S. government is frequently required to purchase on an open market bid
(more or less, I'm not sure what your definition of "open market bid" is).

------
ChrisjayHenn
So it seems the big challenge with landing and taking off from the moon is
carrying that much fuel. A robotic module on the moon that converts water,
carbon and sunlight to rocket fuel should solve that problem.

Is anyone else imagining the mission is going to discretely drop such a module
when it's in the moon's shadow or do I just have an overactive imagination?

~~~
kk_cz
well, all you have to do now is get all that water and carbon to the moon, I
guess.

------
tatoalo
I think that, as Elon pointed out, it can really be an interesting source of
income to deploy entirely on the "Mars Project".

I really root for 'em even though I know that China has started working on a
similar business-model-trip back in '03 and they still haven't made any public
announcement or published a precise launch year...

------
maverick_iceman
No one would be happier than me if they pull this off. However, I think the
timeline is super ambitious. They never had to deal with human passengers till
now, meaning they have to develop all that skill set in 1.5 years. Even with
significant help from NASA/Russia this sounds like an extremely tall order to
me.

------
jaddood
So basically it's the government using private institutions for space too now.
Welcome! (Sarcastic)

------
iklos55
Finally. I am so so hyped for SpaceX's development. Hopefully they can stay
afloat to experience stability and a stage where they can sit on funding and
provide credit for fusion and/or antimatter research. Glad they're here to
give us a glimpse into the future of space travel.

------
Animats
So when will they launch a Falcon Heavy with a Dragon, unmanned? They've got
to try that first. Will the initial Falcon Heavy test flight carry a Dragon
spacecraft?

------
rbanffy
Wasn't being able to support and protect the crew beyond LEO the "killer
feature" of the Orion?

If you can do it with a Dragon, what niche is Orion left with?

------
clock_tower
Which would be more expensive: a personal SpaceX flight to the Moon, or
personally funding a high-speed rail line from Seattle to Vancouver?

~~~
wmf
Definitely rail, which is something like a zillion dollars per mile. The moon
trip is only $40-160M.

~~~
clock_tower
$40-$160M? I didn't realize just how far the price had fallen for a literal
moonshot... Thanks!

------
mLuby
Count on SpaceX to renew faith in humanity. ^_^

------
Shivetya
so much opportunity for celebration and at the same so much opportunity to
destroy the company. hope they do a few dry runs that we get to watch because
while this could be a publicity event of incredible benefit it can just as
easily backfire

------
skosuri
I wonder who the two people are.

~~~
adanto6840
I wonder what the life insurance policy costs -- though perhaps in this case
these individuals don't need one due to their existing wealth. I guess super-
wealthy people just "self insure" eh?

------
_pmf_
"Next Year" in Musk time; that's about 2022.

------
danmoreno
zuck and priscilla?

~~~
monomyth
Donald and Vladimir?

~~~
narcilian
I don't think the world is that lucky.

------
robtaylor
...and back!

------
CodeSheikh
Mission name Apollo-X. Anyone?

------
yCloser
not landing

that's cool, but kerbal-easy

------
biosoup
I'm gonna make my tip, given Elon's history:

Sergey Brin and Larry Page

Two of his freind rich enough, geeky enough, to go first.

~~~
schwarrrtz
Something tells me they wouldn't both go on the same trip, given the risk.

~~~
biosoup
yeah, their insurance company would be furious :)

~~~
mrep
Insurance company?

Why would billionaires waste their money or time on insurance?

------
jlebrech
the should send mining robots to build a base unmanned first.

------
gydfi
Just looking up records: the furthest anyone has ever been from Earth is
Apollo 13 who passed 158 miles above the lunar surface.

I imagine that would be a pretty easy record to break, if you're doing a
translunar flight anyway then getting a bit higher doesn't take much more
energy (source: played a lot of Kerbal).

On the other hand the passengers might prefer a close-up view of the Moon to a
record.

~~~
pklausler
But the moon isn't at a fixed distance. It's possible that one of the other
cislunar or landing Apollo missions was more distant, geocentrically, even
with their standard 69-mile lunar orbital heights.

~~~
pklausler
Did some more research, and yes, Apollo 13 was indeed the furthest in
geocentric distance as well.

~~~
gydfi
Great, so with good timing we can both get a great view and set a record
simultaneously.

------
vanattab
Trumps going to space!

------
bluebeard
[https://kerbalspaceprogram.com/en/](https://kerbalspaceprogram.com/en/)

------
soheil
Who are the two "private citizens"? Seems to be mere urge of "universal human
exploration" to go around the moon and not landing on it, etc. isn't doing
much exploring, but rather taking a lot of risk on a manned spacecraft that
has never been tested with people.

~~~
Aaronn
Well the spacecraft will be tested multiple times before this mission and
there are health and fitness tests before departure just like it says there.
Both of those were addressed, I think you may have misread this.

~~~
soheil
You're right I misread the testing part. I'd very much still like to know who
those people are and what their thought process is.

~~~
jessriedel
I'd like to know the thought process of people who have this much money and
_don 't_ want to orbit the moon.

~~~
soheil
I think you're missing the point, of course in an ideal situation where risk
is minimized that would be a good question. But by focusing on money I think
you neglected to address the obvious point that I raised namely what if it
blows up.

~~~
jessriedel
I didn't miss that point!

------
skizm
Is it still a thing, where going to space makes you infertile due to
radiation? I feel like I remember basically once you go into space (male or
female) kids are off the table afterwards unless you have frozen your sperm or
eggs beforehand. Not sure if that was solved at some point or not.

~~~
TimesOldRoman
As long as you stay near the Earth (the moon is close enough), our
magnetosphere will protect you from radiation.

When you get interplanetary, like on a trip to Mars, radiation exposure
becomes arguable the most difficult problem to solve.

~~~
acover
Source?

> The Mars Radiation Environment Experiment (MARIE) was launched in 2001 in
> order to collect more data. Estimates are that humans unshielded in
> interplanetary space would receive annually roughly 400 to 900 mSv (compared
> to 2.4 mSv on Earth) and that a Mars mission (12 months in flight and 18
> months on Mars) might expose shielded astronauts to roughly 500 to 1000 mSv.
> [0]

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_threat_from_cosmic_rays...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_threat_from_cosmic_rays#The_deep-
space_radiation_environment)

------
stevespang
Do you see the comments on one site: "about 2 rich fat cats all ego-ed out who
paid Space X tens of millions, just smiling from ear to ear and gloating that
the whole world is watching them make history, and the rest of us "lowlanders"
have to watch them with envy - - only to have it by mere chance turn into a
Roman spectacle - - - - of the whole world watching as they get bar-be-qued in
space, never to see earth again.

A massive crowd will be assembled to attempt a Guinness book of world records,
to moon the stars with bare asses all in unison in a soccer stadium just as
they blast off into space, yelling out like the Romans did at the coliseum:
"We salute you those who are about to DIE !" then post it on YouTube !

------
Udik
So, hmm, we wants to send people around the moon, a year and a half from now,
with a rocket he never tested and with a capsule that never flew? I expect
half of the directors of SpaceX to resign in the next two days...

~~~
agildehaus
Not sure how this differs from Apollo.

~~~
amalag
Apollo had manned space missions before that.

~~~
_ph_
SpaceX plans to do this Moon mission only after they had manned missions to
the ISS.

