

Why Apple mice suck, and what they could do to fix it. - mrtron
http://troysimpson.co/mice-made-by-apple

======
kls
There mice may suck but I am in love with the multi-touch track pad. I don't
use a mouse at all anymore. For me at least they have killed the mouse.

The 2 finger slide to scroll, 3 finger slid to page up / down, 2 finger right
click make it an amazing tool. My productivity has skyrocketed on the track-
pad. They have now released a peripheral track-pad for desktop machines. I
recommended to a friend of mine that I freelance with and he was sold almost
instantly. It is night and day.

Anyway, the point is I agree mice may be the one area where I prefer
Microsoft's offerings to Apple's. I have never met an Apple mouse that I
liked, but for me the mouse is dead I could never go back after using the
track-pad.

Link for those of you unfamiliar with it:

<http://www.apple.com/magictrackpad/>

~~~
TamDenholm
This is pretty interesting, my own personal experience with trackpads on
laptops have been quite poor. Not the quality of the trackpad itself just it
being highly annoying having to move the mouse around with one, i always like
to plug in an external mouse.

One of the main things i dislike is it not naturally being on my right,
obviously all laptop makers couldnt do this because of the lefties of the
world. The other issue is the actual size of the trackpad on a laptop, its too
small, again, not easily fixable on a laptop.

So i suppose the external trackpad would solve both these problems, but until
i try it out, i'm not sure if i'd like it or not. Certainly interesting
though.

~~~
powrtoch
You say "on a laptop" in the general sense, leading me to wonder if you've
tried Mac trackpads recently. I used to feel just like you do, but Apple's
trackpads honestly are vastly superior products to any others that I've used.

I know this sounds like fanboyism, but that's just been my experience. FWIW, I
agree completely that Apple's actual mice are awful.

------
elblanco
> Apple mice seem to be the canary in the coal mine. If Apple starts designing
> mice we all want to use - it is a sign their engineering practices have
> turned upside down and their products will not have the same minimalistic
> qualities that make them incredibly popular.

Apple mice suck. Period. They're practically unusable, poorly tested,
unreliable, overly expensive garbage. Problems with their pointer devices are
noticeable to anybody withing the first 5 minutes of using the device. To make
matters worse, the way mouse inputs are handled is similarly bad. Unusable and
unpredictable acceleration curve with no exposed configuration to tune it, and
decades of trying everything possible to avoid having a second button has
created all kinds of nonstandard ways of handling right mouse clicks and all
kinds of legacy keyboard gyrations for simple actions that could just be
handled through a right-click context menu. Option-Shift-Command-Delete
really, so I'm modifying a modification or a modifier key? Wow, that's totally
discoverable. The semantics of such a command astound. (it's slowly improving,
but right-click context menus are not really in the Apple culture).

It's bizarre because Apple is really the first company to design their devices
around non-keyboard input, even going to far as to remove arrow keys off of
the keyboard in early devices to force people to use the mouse, their touch
devices have reinvented mobile computing, and their interface standards are
extremely high, why is it then that the mouse I had with my original single
body black and white Macintosh is more usable than anything the company has
produced since the ridiculous hockey puck mouse in the 90s? Does nobody in the
company actually use their products? Is everybody just walking around with
MBPs using the trackpads?

One lesson to be learned though is that there simply is a certain amount of
complexity you have to deal with in modern computing. You can shift that
complexity around (eliminate the right mouse button, but then you have to have
awkward and non-discoverable four key combinations), but it's very hard to
eliminate it. Trying to find the optimal balance point that allows the best
possible management of this complexity is _hard_.

~~~
snom370
I can't use a mouse on a Mac for extended periods of time due to the mouse
acceleration curve problem. I've never experienced them as unreliable or
garbage, but I just don't like using them.

Using synergy and an external Linux PC to drive the mouse solves the problem.
But I like the Mac touchpads so much that the mouse problem sort of
disappears, especially now with the new external touchpad. Now, I find even
using a mouse (or touchpad) on other Windows / Linux computers is slightly
annoying.

~~~
angrycoder
The acceleration is easily disabled. Just run this command in terminal.

defaults write .GlobalPreferences com.apple.mouse.scaling -1

~~~
mrtron
I wouldn't call the secret preferences macs have easily disabled. The vast
majority of users encountering this problem won't be able to take advantage of
this!

~~~
weaksauce
True it's not the easiest to do manually but there are plenty of preference
panes that can open up this feature if you are motivated enough to fix it.

------
xutopia
His rant about the magic mouse are unfair. He's making claims about it that
sound like he hasn't even used it.

> The most innovative mouse in recent history - the top is a touchpad. The
> problem is it is difficult to hold the mouse and perform the two finger
> scrolling necessary. Clicking doesn't give you the feedback you would like
> and again there really is only 2 buttons available (left and right). It is
> difficult to use a touchpad on a device intended to slide around your table,
> and tough to click a mouse on a touchpad.

You don't need two fingers to scroll. One is sufficient. Clicking is an
audible and you can very well feel it with your finger. It's not a touchpad
nor is it intended to be used as a touchpad. It's just that instead of
scrolling using a tiny nudge on the top you can use way more surface (anywhere
in the top 2/3 of the mouse) to scroll in any direction you want.

~~~
powrtoch
Be that as it may, it's still not, in my experience, a good mouse. Nifty idea,
cool looking design, but I found the ergonomics of it really uncomfortable.
It's just awkward trying to move the thing around at all compared to other
mice, and the "2 buttons masquerading as 1" thing remains an unpredictable
annoyance. I've wished for a long time now that Apple would just give up,
admit their mistake, and accept that 2 button mice are the superior option.

~~~
eru
I like my 3 button mouse. At least how the third button is used in X.

~~~
powrtoch
Dunno why you were downvoted, my fault for not clarifying: I just meant 2
buttons is superior to 1. I make no claims about other button counts.

~~~
eru
I agree. And for some users three buttons is even better than two.

~~~
moe
Some people (Gamers, CAD engineers) wouldn't even consider a mouse with less
than _4_ buttons.

~~~
weaksauce
I am both a gamer and a CAD user. I love my magicmouse though as I spend a lot
of time using the internet and scrolling on the magicmouse is amazing. I have
jitouch + magicprefs to enable tap/swipe gestures and middle mouse button. if
I need to do some hard core gaming I will just use a different mouse. Gaming
with the mm is actually good enough for government work most of the time.

------
city41
I have used, extensively, every single mouse Apple has ever released.
Including the very first mouse for the Lisa and original Macintosh. Every
single last one of them is terrible. Some were so terrible it boggles the mind
(the hockey puck, _shudder_ ). Before the optical mouse, it always amazed me
that Apple mice tended to gum up and get clogged far more than any other
brand.

When Microsoft first released their first optical mouse (was it the very first
optical mouse? I don't know, but it was the first one I knew of. This was
about '98 or so) I eagerly paid the $80 for the behemoth (the thing was huge).
Not having to deal with an Apple mouse getting clogged all the time alone made
this mouse worth it, nevermind actually having more than one button.

People always point out the magic mouse. I hate it just as much as any other
Apple mouse. I have a magic mouse about 2 feet from me as I type this. It
seems like Apple can never get everything right. The Magic Mouse is fine on
the top side of it, but the bottom has so much friction that moving it around
on the desk is a stuttery, frustrating chore.

Interestingly, I've always found Microsoft makes the best mice. My current
favorite is the Arc, which is meant to be a travel mouse, yet I use it as my
daily mouse. The whole "Apple can do everything right except mice" and
"Microsoft often gets things wrong, except their mice" thing has always
boggled my mind :)

~~~
calloc
Microsoft makes my favourite mouse which is the Laser Mouse 6000. When I heard
that they would no longer be in production I bought a second one as backup in
case my first ever failed. It is light, has two extra buttons one on each side
and is an absolute joy to have.

Yes, it looks weird next to the rest of my Apple gear, especially since it is
this silver black, but overall it is way better than any mouse Apple has ever
released.

------
Anechoic
You can take my Magic Mouse when you pry it from my cold dead hand.

That said, regarding the geek fascination with multi-button mics - IMO Apple
got it right with one-button (and pseudo-one button like the Magic Mouse &
Might Mouse) mice. Yes, you guys/gals can handle multi-button mice. I can
handle multi-button mice. But I've witnessed far too many people (even today!)
who have a hard time distinguishing between right/lift clicking. Add to that
the propensity of many Windows-software authors to provide options that can
only be accessed via right-click (some Mac software does this also, but IME
much less than Windows software) and you have a recipe for confusion.

Provide one-button mics for everyone and allow advanced users to upgrade to
multi-button mice (which is what the Magic/Mighty mice do without having to
buy additional hardware) is a good compromise IMO.

~~~
marknutter
Have you tried Better Touch Tool (<http://blog.boastr.net/>)? If not, you
really should.

~~~
weaksauce
An alternate that I like is magicprefs for the middle mouse button click and
coupled with jitouch for the tap and swipe gestures. I LOVE IT!

~~~
Anechoic
Dammit! I tried magicprefs and the first thing it did was change the mouse
acceleration curve to something more Windows-like.

Into the trash it goes...

~~~
weaksauce
Apple disabled mucking around with the acceleration curves if I recall
correctly. The only thing that they do that is different than the normal mouse
prefs is allow you to change the speed of the mouse to a super fast rate which
minimizes the effect of the acceleration curve. Try slowing the mouse pointer
speed down and see if it is normal.

~~~
Anechoic
I played around with it a bit and couldn't find a tracking speed that I was
comfortable with. I also remember that (supposedly) Apple removed the
acceleration curve API but some sites (including
<http://osxdaily.com/2010/08/25/mouse-acceleration/>) seem to suggest that it
can be turned off.

At this point I'm not going to waste the time to figure it out.

~~~
weaksauce
fair enough. you should do the jitouch thing though as that is such a win for
gestures I was looking for this exact thing. If it did the middle mouse click
it would be all that I need.

~~~
weaksauce
The fact that it disables itself sometimes after waking the computer up from
sleep drives me crazy though. I wish the jitouch people would fix this.

------
evo_9
I'd say mostly accurate up until the Magic Mouse which I own two of. Really
the only bad things about these mice are a) the astoundingly stupid name, b)
the poor battery-life (which is exasperated by the fact that apple claims it's
exception).

In both cases it's a moot point; the name, yeah I can laugh at it and make fun
of it, but really it makes no difference in the usability of the product; and
the battery life issue, while annoying, is easily managed by having 2 sets of
rechargeable batteries - pretty much a requirement with any wireless mouse.

Other than those two fairly insignificant issues, this is a great mouse and I
can't imagine using anything else right now.

~~~
liscio
Poor battery life? My Magic Mouse would last 3 weeks of constant use with NiMH
batteries on average.

However, this was only the case after I applied the software update for my
aluminum bluetooth keyboard. The first few weeks with the mouse would get me
only a few days worth of use, at best.

Maybe there's another bluetooth device nearby that's causing your Magic Mouse
to work too hard, and suck up too much juice?

(Note: I don't use my Magic Mouse anymore because I've since fallen in love
with the Magic Trackpad, which has survived even the most precise work with
Photoshop for mocking up pixel-accurate UIs.)

~~~
evo_9
Interest and thanks - maybe I have something going on there, I'll investigate.

I'm also comparing it to my old bluetooth mouse (a small laptop mouse by MS),
and I only changed the AAA's in that maybe twice a year. Seems odd to me that
a device running 2 AA's would need replacing twice as often.

~~~
mrtron
I think I have the same mouse - GREAT device.

------
Qz
The sad thing is that logitech doesn't make the MX Revolution anymore -- the
replacement model is the Performance MX, with less functionality. My MX
Revolution got drowned in water and though the Performance MX is still a
really good mouse, it's a noticeable downgrade. You can still buy the
Revolution online but it comes with a $20-50 markup since it's not being made
anymore.

~~~
buro9
Take a look at the Razer Deathadder. Comes in lefty and righty versions, looks
pretty clean, and performs very well with great feedback.

[http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_GB/DisplayCateg...](http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_GB/DisplayCategoryProductListPage/categoryID.40946100/parentCategoryID.35208800)

Don't let the lights put you off (in the rollerball and under the hand), you
can turn them off.

What I love about that mouse... feel, sensitivity, drivers for mac as well as
windows, instant-change sensitivity, tactile feedback is lovely, buttons where
you expect there to be buttons (but no more... there aren't buttons all over
the thing).

------
jsz0
If the author had wrote this article pre-Magic Mouse, pre-Magic Trackpad, I
would have fully agreed but both of those devices are quite good. I don't find
gestures on either one to be difficult but of course there's a small learning
curve if you've got 20 years of muscle memory on a regular mouse. For the MM
and MT there is a solid physical button click and with various utilities you
can configure more than 2 buttons. On my MT I have actions setup for 3 finger
click and 4 finger click. It really comes down to personal preference. I'm not
sure anyone can make one mouse that is perfect for everyone.

------
pietrofmaggi
I may be sometimes an Apple fanboy, but it's true that Apple mouse sucks, and
hard.

Luckily the magic trackpad is now my input device of choice, but I spent a to
much time cleaning the small ball of my mighty mouse (without opening it):
[<http://www.brendanfenn.com/cleanmouse.html>]

And then again, if I have to use a three button mouse I've to choose a better
mouse, something like a Logitec or, argh, Microsoft mouse. Both of them are
cheaper and better than any Apple one.

------
hopeless
The Magic mouse was the one big disappointment when I moved to the iMac. Far,
far too small to grip comfortably... but I do love the trackpad scrolling.

I wish I could get a "magic" logitech (thumb) trackball. I saw yesterday that
Logitech are releasing a new version of the trackman wheel which I bought 7yrs
ago and now use with my iMac. Unfortuntely, it looks like the only difference
is a blue ball instead of a red one

------
mgrouchy
I have used all previous versions of the mac mice(previous to the magic mouse)
and they are all terrible.

That being said , I'm not sure if the author has used a Magic Mouse or not,
but I love mine. Sure it doesn't have a million buttons or anything, but in my
experience it works great for things I do at my computer(Write Software, surf
the internet).

------
KirinDave
I have a Logitech MX Revolution. Initially I was very pleased with the feel of
the scrollwheel. And then a year passed, and it became inconsistent; not in
the smoothness but in the mechanism's ability to detect motion. I'm not alone
in this complaint, it seems to be a relatively common defect.

The worst part of that mouse, though, is that it requires a special USB
transmitter. Originally it was quite long, but subsequent versions have
reduced the size. No matter, though, because the range is still terrible on
the RF transmission. If you have a big, roomy desk (or keep the transmitter on
a KVM off to the side), then you're going to frequently run into the mouse
pointer freezing as the mouse and transmitter re-establish a correction.
Unless it has line of sight, it _will_ happen. I found it maddening, and had
to stop using the device.

Oh, it's also obvious that he never used a 2009-style Apple “Magic” Mouse. It
_does_ click, it is _way_ better than the Mighty when it comes to detecting a
right click, and the scroll and expose gestures are _fantastic_. I wish he had
never covered it rather than blatantly and transparently lie to us like this.

~~~
kylec
I've had my MX Revolution for over a year without experiencing the problems
you describe. While I'll admit that I've never been the biggest fan of the
locking/unlocking of the scroll wheel, it's never had an issue detecting
motion. Also, the fact that it requires a transmitter is a bit annoying, but
I've never run into an issue where it stops working or goes out of range, line
of sight or no.

I've actually had all the mice listed in the article and I still keep coming
back to my MX Revolution. The problem is that none of them are two-button mice
that I can rest my hand on. The older mice simply did not support right-click
functionality, and the newer mice require that your left finder can't be on
the mouse while performing a right-click.

------
TamDenholm
One note about their recommended mouse, although i think logitech make
excellent products, he writer seems to think the abundance of buttons is a
good thing, i do not.

Personally i find the forward and back buttons on a mouse to be highly
irritating, whenever i use a mouse with them i always accidentally press them.

~~~
vault_
Forward and backward buttons can actually be extremely handy, when not used
for that purpose.

If you map them to something else (say... modifier keys), you can do all sorts
of useful things. Like hold down one of the buttons and click on files to
select more than one. Or activate Spaces if you click the middle button, but
activate Expose if you click the middle button while holding the back button
down.

If back/forward buttons had to stay back/forward buttons I'd agree that they
are pointless. They don't though; they can be super useful.

------
yardie
The last Apple mouse I used prior to the Magic Mouse was the clear single
button thing. Until now, I don't think anyone took the apple mouse serious.
You've already spent $1000+ for the Mac so paying $50 more for a proper mouse
wasn't a big deal.

Since getting this thing it's been great. Once you install better mouse or
magic menus the versatility really takes off. Forget 1,2, or even 10 button
mice. I have configured 12 different gestures I could do more but they get
hard to remember. While the hump could be higher the weight is perfect, and it
feels solid.

Due to so many comments in this discussion I'm even contemplating getting the
touchpad now.

------
jdietrich
If you're thinking about mice, _apple mice are not for you_. Apple know damned
well that geeks who want lots of buttons will go out and buy a Logitech. They
have tested the acceleration curve to destruction and know that it results in
faster navigation; They also know that if you know that it exists and are
annoyed by it, you are nerdy enough to use USB Overdrive.

To call Apple mice lousy is to completely miss the point. I really like the
basic set of hardware buttons that an Android handset requires for navigation,
but my mum can never remember which one does what. The iPhone has one button
that does one thing.

The average user is not like us. Our biggest failing as developers and
designers is when we forget that.

~~~
elblanco
It's not just the curve. It's the usability and reliability of the things. The
hockey puck mouse was noticeably unusable within seconds of putting it in your
hand. Pretty much the first time you tried to move it, or click, and the mouse
had rotated to some indeterminate angle...it's like it went directly from the
designer's drawing into production with absolutely no use-testing.

The Mighty Mouse is likewise an unreliable piece of garbage, yet with no way
of fixing its primary, and easily noticeable problem, the clogged ball. It's
like the purpose for the entire transition from balled mice to optical mice
was never a lesson Apple learned. And again, this is noticeable within a very
short time-frame under use-testing. And this was a $50 piece of hardware!

------
chrischen
Magic mouse is decent. Only problem is it drains batteries like crazy. Plus
side is no sleep time.

