
Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency - WhitneyLand
http://liveforlivemusic.com/news/grateful-dead-fan-timothy-tyler-has-been-granted-clemency-by-president-barack-obama/
======
wvrvwwwe
This is only related in that it's another person incarcerated over LSD, but
I've always found this individual and his story pretty fascinating:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Leonard_Pickard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Leonard_Pickard)

[http://www.freeleonardpickard.org/Skinner-
Timeline.html](http://www.freeleonardpickard.org/Skinner-Timeline.html)

The second link discusses Gordon Todd Skinner, who was the informant that
facilitated the arrest of Pickard. I don't know how much of that information
is accurate, but it's an engrossing read and it paints a horrible picture of
what a government informant can get away with.

~~~
billh
VICE did a documentary on Krystle Cole, a friend of Mr. Skinner's prior to his
arrest. It includes a tour of the missile silo that Skinner had been using as
a lab.

(NSFW - Drugs, Sex, etc.)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7qliVpGEk0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7qliVpGEk0)

~~~
steve-howard
It's kind of creepy to watch that in light of the link on Mr Skinner's
history, which included allegations that Ms. Cole was an enthusiastic
participant in the brutal torture of Brandon Green. The details are fairly
disturbing. The narrator's awestruck tone sounds pretty nauseating in that
light.

------
thowar2
The bigger story here, Obama has granted clemency to 111 inmates. It looks
like they are mostly drug related. [https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/president-
obama-grants-commut...](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/president-obama-grants-
commutations-6)

~~~
downandout
Agreed. I am no Obama fan - for one thing I think his unprecedented expansion
of covert surveillance programs and defiant tone in the wake of the Snowden
revelations did tremendous damage to US tech companies seeking to do business
overseas. But I am quite happy he did this. It shows a measure of humanity and
common sense that is rare in US politicians. These are traits that we are
unlikely to see in the next President, regardless of which candidate wins.

~~~
bmm6o
According to the report on NPR, they are inmates would have served more time
than they would if they were convicted today (due to changes in sentencing
guidelines or criminal classifications). It seems to me like we should
_default_ to releasing such people or it should at least not require something
as powerful as a presidential pardon.

------
Natsu
The downside of this, sadly, is that he appears to have mental health issues.
Unless he has some outside support, which may be difficult with his dad being
dead and having been incarcerated since something like 1994, he would be
rather likely to end up on the street, alone :(

Here's hoping there are people on the outside to help him out.

~~~
sdrothrock
> Here's hoping there are people on the outside to help him out.

I thought the same thing and wondered whether he had been granted clemency, so
I googled a bit and found a page by his sister[1], which at least suggests
that he has family that thinks of and cares about him. So hopefully they could
help out.

1\. [https://www.change.org/p/my-brother-was-sentenced-to-life-
wi...](https://www.change.org/p/my-brother-was-sentenced-to-life-without-
parole-for-a-nonviolent-drug-offense)

~~~
Natsu
That's encouraging to hear, thank you.

------
JohnTHaller
Those infamous 'carrier weight' LSD laws where the weight of what the single
drop of LSD is on counts as part of the drug in calculating the sentencing.
And it's not even the dumbest 'war on drugs' law in our arsenal of dumb 'war
on drugs' laws.

~~~
mighty_atomic_c
Call me cynical, but I don't think it is dumb. I think it is intentional.

~~~
ellisdewalt
It's dumb because even if they wanted to have that severe of a punishment for
LSD specifically, they could do math and just make the sentence greater for
smaller amounts of actual drug. Be as cynical as you like, but we'd see
equivalent exaggerations for every other drug if your line of thinking made
sense.

~~~
eropple
It depends on the audience for those drugs and their relationship to the
people making laws. Take, for example, crack versus cocaine. Crack and cocaine
are nearly identical drugs. Crack has the same sentence for one gram as
cocaine does for eighteen. (The disparity used to be five times greater before
2010.) But crack users are more likely to be black, low-income, and less
educated. I can't imagine why they'd be a preferred target for "tough on
crime" legislation. Aside from, y'know, systemic, institutionalized racism
(and good old-fashioned poor-stomping, but it is well-known that the War on
Drugs was intended to target black people).

Similarly, LSD was widely associated with undesirables in the sixties and
seventies--counter-culture movements. Do you have a better way to provide
yourself with cover for attacking them?

If you're surprised or skeptical of either claim, I recommend you read Dan
Baum's recent report regarding his discussions with John Erlichman and H.R.
Haldeman's diaries[1] (themselves available in the Nixon Presidential
Library). Both men were deep in the Nixon White House during the formation of
the War on Drugs; it's illuminating stuff.

[0] - [http://harpers.org/archive/2016/04/legalize-it-
all/?single=1](http://harpers.org/archive/2016/04/legalize-it-all/?single=1)

[1] - [http://www.nytimes.com/1994/05/18/us/haldeman-diary-shows-
ni...](http://www.nytimes.com/1994/05/18/us/haldeman-diary-shows-nixon-was-
wary-of-blacks-and-jews.html)

~~~
pluma
Crack and Cocaine are nearly identical from a chemical perspective, but not
from how they are used and their effect:
[http://www.attn.com/stories/2643/crack-vs-
cocaine](http://www.attn.com/stories/2643/crack-vs-cocaine)

It's comforting to think it's all just a ploy to get at black people (like how
cannabis was rebranded as "marijuana" because it associates it with those
pesky Mexicans everybody hates) but there are valid reasons to be more afraid
of crack than of cocaine despite both sharing practically the same active
ingredient.

EDIT: I'm not saying the War on Drugs _doesn 't_ particularly affect people of
color more than other groups, or whether that is intentional or not, but
pointing at the active ingredients and saying "look, they're the same except
racism" is simplistic.

~~~
dannypgh
From your article, it certainly does seem like injected powder cocaine and
smoked crack cocaine are about the same on the body. And you can trivially
make crack from powdered cocaine.

Nobody has said they're 100% the same besides racism. The claim is that racism
plays a role in why the sentencing disparities exist.

------
eggy
It's crazy to spend that much time in jail for a nonviolent offense, and such
a small amount of substance in the US.

The war on drugs is a big waste of many things. But to put it in perspective,
I am currently living in SE Asia where you are informed by airline
announcements and signs that drug trafficking is punishable by death in
several of the countries here!

I'm from Brooklyn, but I live in Indonesia now. I'm currently in Kuala Lumpur,
Malaysia. 138 Nigerians are awaiting death penalties in China, Malaysia,
Indonesia and Singapore at this time.

~~~
bogomipz
It wasn't an 'offense' it was plural 'offenses' as in three. And we aren't
talking about personal possession we are talking about intent to distribute.
The distinction between these are night and day.

~~~
eggy
I read that, and I get your point, but LSD, or marijuana, to me are not in the
same league as heroin or cocaine and the amounts those are usually traded in
along with the gangs and violence associated with them. I'm not at all
addressing the law; I am expressing surprise over the extreme sentence in
comparison to what I think are worse crimes. Rapists get what, 4 years in the
US if prosecuted? There were/are people serving life sentences over marijuana
sales, and now it's legal in some states.

~~~
bogomipz
But there are two different things - selling and using. Using is only
marginally criminalized. Selling and distributing is a much more serious
offense. Alcohol in some ways is no different. I can home brew all I want and
bottle it and put it in the refrigerator. If throw the garage door open and
start selling it to the general public I can expect some trouble from the
legal system. Crossing state boundaries and using a Federal system like the
mail further compounded this individual's situation.

I can assure rapists don't get 4 years and they are almost always prosecuted
if there is enough evidence.

~~~
CoryG89
You can't assure rapists don't get 4 years (or less):

> The convictions carried a potential sentence of 14 years in prison.
> Prosecutors recommended six years in prison while probation officials
> recommended a "moderate" county jail sentence.[19] On June 2, 2016, Santa
> Clara County Superior Court Judge Aaron Persky sentenced Turner to six
> months confinement in the Santa Clara County jail to be followed by three
> years of probation.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Turner](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Turner)

~~~
bogomipz
But he was NOT convicted and sent to prison for rape, it was sexual assault
and in some states penal systems those are different crimes with different
sentencing guidelines:

"On October 7, 2015, after reviewing the results of DNA tests, the two rape
charges were dropped by prosecutors.[7][12][14][15] The trial began on March
14, 2016,[16] and concluded on March 30, 2016, with Turner's conviction on the
three remaining charges of felony sexual assault."

Please show me one single rape conviction in the US where the sentence was 4
years.

~~~
bogomipz
How does someone downvote another for presenting a fact? What I have learned
from Hackernews is at this point is not to participate in non-technical
discussions. As they are mostly just mob mentality. How do you downvote
someone that took the time to participate in a discussion? Its amazing to see
that every single comment I have made in this discussion has been downvoted?
I've said nothing outrageous, I have offered different points of view? I have
taken the time to articulate myself and every single comment is downvoted?

~~~
eggy
BTW, I didn't downvote you.

I think you are splitting hairs here on rape. OK, 8 years average conviction
on rape, if the victim pursues it. Still 8 years with possible time off for
good behavior on a very violent crime vs. Selling LSD -> life sentence. I
still fail to see aside from the law how you think the punishment is in
proportion to the actions, which was the point I was trying to convey.

~~~
bogomipz
Well I'm not sure someone serving 8 years vs 4 years would agree with you. Its
double the amount, I'm not sure I would say that's splitting hairs. Time off
is a fact of many sentences in an overcrowded penal system.

I never stated that I agreed with the sentencing guidelines, which I
absolutely and emphatically do not. What I said was that there was a reason in
the eyes of the law for using weight including paper as metric. Whether you
agree with it or not that's their logic. I never said anything more.

I guess that simply pointing that out there was another side to this was
enough for being downvoted as if I am some "tough on crime, law and order"
Republican?

That's unfortunate because it was a topic that I thought was interesting and a
case that I have actually kept up on over the years.

~~~
eggy
I think your arguments were rational. Splitting hairs is not the difference
between 4 or 8 years, but compared to life, or around 60 to 75 years depending
on your incarceration age. I do agree with you pointing out that it was a
multiple offense, and selling not buying to use. Still, life? And questions of
mental health too.

------
fnj
I get that the right to consume _any_ substance one wants into one's own body
is a basic human right, but outlawing LSD and cannabis are two cases of
outrageous, striking dumbness and pointlessness. Neither one is addictive, and
the LD50 of each is an incredible number of orders of magnitude higher than a
normal dose. It is virtually impossible to harm yourself.

~~~
curun1r
Comments like yours are very dangerous. They buy into the DARE framing of the
dangers of drugs being death. But there are much more subtle dangers that get
ignored when the discussion is framed this way.

And I say this as someone who went through a prolonged depression following
ecstacy use in my early 20s. I stupidly evaluated the dangers of the drug and
determined that the naysayers who were warning of possible death were full of
shit and didn't think to consider the less severe negative consequences.

~~~
torrent-of-ions
I went through depression after my first relationship. We don't warn children
about the dangers of relationships, we just expect that they'll "figure it
out" just like everyone else.

You figured out the dangers of high ecstasy usage yourself. Are you one of
these people who thinks nobody but you is capable of figuring out how to use
it safely?

~~~
curun1r
The point was that I had to find out the dangers of prolonged ecstacy use the
hard way because the dangers of the drug were so overblown by opponents and I
didn't hear a more nuanced take on the subject. I cannot be the only one
capable of figuring out how to use it safely because _I did not figure out how
to use it safely._

I just think that potential ecstacy users need to hear that there are
consequences that can be very severe that don't work well as scare tactics. If
they understand the risks and still choose to use, then more power to them.
They've made an informed choice based on accurate information. But accurate
information is the key and we do a disservice as a society by putting out the
ridiculous message that ecstacy can kill you.

Oh, and to equate breakup misery with clinical depression is pretty ignorant.
Depression has a specific meaning that doesn't equate to sadness.

------
toodlebunions
Mandatory minimums are terrible.

------
hasbroslasher
Always amazes me that LSD is illegal while alcohol is legal, the latter
causing all host of metal and physical ailments, the former causing mostly
hilarious navel-gazing

~~~
tigershark
It always amazes me how many people on HN trivialise extremely dangerous drugs
saying that alcohol is more dangerous. I'd rather stay in a room with someone
that drinks a glass of wine a day than with someone that assumes LSD every
day.

~~~
ghshephard
Some objective research is useful here. Lancet did an evaluation across
multiple spectrums, harm to self, harm to environment, harm to society, harm
to others, crime, etc...

([https://www.researchgate.net/publication/47635105_Nutt_DJ_Ki...](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/47635105_Nutt_DJ_King_LA_Phillips_LD_Drug_harms_in_the_UK_a_multicriteria_decision_analysis_Lancet_376_1558-1565))
- in particular, check out the graph down the page.

Alcohol is unquestionably the more destructive of substances, LSD ranks far
lower in this scale. Importantly, Alcohol results in a lot of harm to other
people (violence, drunk driving, etc...).

~~~
kgwgk
> Alcohol is unquestionably the more destructive of substances

Because it is the most popular one. The "harm to others" part of the score is
not per user. At the margin, one typical heroin or crack consumer creates more
costs to society than one typical alcohol consumer.

~~~
ghshephard
Is that really the case? I can't think of any reason why a heroin addict would
be harmful to others, whereas people who drink alcohol tend to drive and
kill/injure others. Indeed, if a heroin addict has clean needles, safe place
to inject, and a safe supply of heroin, (close to zero mortality in Vancouver
Safe Injection sites) then it's relatively benign substance, other than
addictive component.

I bet if you put one alcoholic against one heroin addict, more damage across
almost every spectrum than the heroin addict.

~~~
kgwgk
In the very paper that you cited to support your position they claim that the
"community", "economic" and "family" harm is about three to five times larger
for alcohol than for heroin. Which, given that there are more than two orders
of magnitude of difference in the prevalence of alcohol and heroin usage,
suggest that somehow heroin users are not as harmless as you paint them. The
score for "crime" ("beyond the use-of-drug act") is actually higher for heroin
than for alcohol.

------
sova
May he feel safe and at home where-ever he stands.

------
iconjack
I will never, ever vote for anyone who supported the drug war. Yes, that
includes you, Hillary.

~~~
duaneb
This kind of thinking helps nothing. If you are outraged, push to change it.
If you seriously think the best way to do that is to not vote for Hillary, I'd
love to hear your reasoning.

~~~
iconjack
I am outraged by the drug war, therefore I will not vote for a drug warrior.
Not sure what else to say.

~~~
LyndsySimon
I wouldn't worry about it much - there are a lot of us out there who aren't
exactly "single-issue voters", but for whom a single issue can make a
candidate completely unpalatable.

For me, that's guns. For you, that's drugs. For many others, it's abortion.

~~~
hutzlibu
Just curious, pro or against guns?

I suppose against, meaning you want a candidat who wants tight regulation?

~~~
LyndsySimon
I was purposefully vague :)

I'm very, very pro-gun.

------
GrinningFool
> This story is extremely sad, but now seems to be heading towards a happy
> ending.

Two lives (plus unknown others that they touched on) destroyed, and 20+ years
later getting set free - with no acknowledgement of anything wrong with doing
that to them in the first place - that fixes everything. /s

------
ImTalking
Laws should only be there for harm, not morality.

------
Cozumel
Link actually mentioning the clemency:
[http://liveforlivemusic.com/news/grateful-dead-fan-
timothy-t...](http://liveforlivemusic.com/news/grateful-dead-fan-timothy-
tyler-has-been-granted-clemency-by-president-barack-obama/)

How would you even start putting your life back together after been in jail so
long? It's unimaginable.

~~~
sctb
Thanks, we updated the link from [http://famm.org/timothy-
tyler](http://famm.org/timothy-tyler).

------
dharness
I'm not sure where this title came from - this article seems to indicate there
has been no clemency?

------
SwellJoe
I don't see any mention of clemency on that page. Perhaps there was a mod-edit
to point to a "better" source, which doesn't actually cover the clemency?

~~~
jc4p
I think the purest source is this: [https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/president-
obama-grants-commut...](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/president-obama-grants-
commutations-6) but that lists a lot more clemencies

~~~
toomanybeersies
From one of the clemencies

> use of a communication facility to facilitate the commission of a felony

How exactly is this an additional crime to said felony? How does using a
telephone make the crime more heinous? This seems like one of those laws
that's designed to be guaranteed to add more charges, similar to such gems as
"non-violently resisting arrest".

~~~
marcoperaza
Non-violently resisting arrest is a real thing and should most certainly be a
crime. E.g. you put your hands firmly across your chest and force the police
to overpower you and force you into handcuffs. You're not attacking anyone,
but you're resisting arrest in a way that threatens the safety of the
arresting officers and obstructs the lawful execution of an arrest warrant.

Also, when the charges are all for the same crime, the sentences are almost
always concurrent, which means they run at the same time. It doesn't actually
increase the length of the prison sentence.

~~~
fennecfoxen
> Non-violently resisting arrest is a real thing and should most certainly be
> a crime.

Sure. How bad of a crime? Thirty days in jail? A week? A year? Is that in line
with practice?

