
It's no wonder they don't trust us - AndrewWarner
http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2009/12/its-no-wonder-they-dont-trust-you.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+typepad%2Fsethsmainblog+%28Seth%27s+Blog%29&utm_content=Google+Reader
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brk
I wonder why consumers put up with all the add-on crap that comes with a
Windows PC. I guess maybe they just don't know any other real choices exist?

It's been many years since I setup a commercial Windows-based machine (and the
non-commercial installs I've done have mostly been for VMs for testing
purposes). But, I remember those machines from Dell having a ton of random
extraneous crap already loaded. Crap icons all over the desktop. Crap-ware
that auto-launched and made the system tray area extend 1/4 of the way across
the taskbar, and so on. Completely ridiculous.

I bought a new iMac for my wife a couple of weeks ago. Took it out of the box,
turned it on, and it was (as usual) a smooth and sane experience.

Don't get me wrong, it's not that I an totally anti-Microsoft, or completely
Apple fan-boy. I just choose to use and buy the product that offers the best
experience for my money, and Microsoft hasn't been part of that equation for a
very long time now.

~~~
Tichy
I knew somebody would mention Apple. Sadly, Apple is not that much better -
after all, you are almost forced to register with Apple (iTunes, MobileMe,
etc) to reap the full benefits. In fact with my Mac I just gave in and
registered, which I always managed to avoid with other PCs.

It's just that they limit themselves to Apple products, and Apple fans cherish
that rather than being annoyed by it.

Try installing iTunes on Windows, and you get lots of crap along with it, too
(Quicktime, some Apple Software updater background thread, iPod connector
background process even if you don't have an iPod, Bayonet-Networking or what
it is called, and so on). Really, they are NOT better here.

Besides, I've had very good experiences with Dell. At least they still provide
the install disk for Windows. Maybe it depends on whether you buy from the
consumer or the business lines, though. If there really is any pollution, the
first step should be reinstalling the OS from scratch, without all the
crapware (but as I said, I didn't have to do that with my Dell purchases so
far).

~~~
brk
MobileMe? Really? I've never registered for that, and I don't think I'm
benefit deficient.

iTunes, only if you have an iPod, and I think most people recognize what they
are opting in to if you go down that road. (Is the Zune any better in that
regard?).

I've bought Dell and HP home and corporate desktop machines (again, though not
in the last few years). Both were burdened with a lot of pre-installed junk.
If I have to reinstall the OS on a new PC, I think that is sort of a non-win.

I suppose it is a matter of perspective, but the Apple machines I've purchased
have not come burdened with a ton of 3rd party crap, and have not made removal
of what IS installed (iWork as an example) overly difficult if you choose to
do so.

~~~
Tichy
I haven't registered with MobileMe either, it was just an example that Apple
DOES try to push things on you.

And you mention the difference: one is 3rd party stuff, Apple pushes Apple. It
still pushes.

Again it is the useless comparison between "Apple" and "PCs". There are bad PC
vendors and, OK, less bad PC vendors. Shop smart, and you don't have to put up
with preinstalled crapware. Not even with Dell.

"Overly difficult" is entirely in the eye of the beholder...

~~~
stcredzero
Does "Shop Smart" mean "Reinstall the OS from Scratch?"

 _Apple pushes Apple. It still pushes_

Difference between Apple and Dell: Apple prompts you fewer times, doesn't try
to make you feel insecure about opting out, and looks respectable throughout
the whole experience. Last time I set up a PC, it was like passing an aisle of
carnival hawkers.

~~~
notauser
In many ways it's more irritating when it happens with Apple software because
they have set expectations about usability higher.

I _know_ I'm going to need to zap a new PC, so it doesn't bother me so much.
Compare to OS X where I was promised a good experience.

I can't even do a clean install of OS X as the junk is baked into the
operating system.

~~~
mmt
_I _know_ I'm going to need to zap a new PC_

This would seem to support the article's thesis of degradation of trust.

Still, I would say that the ability, let alone expectation, to reinstall an
OS, marks you as being more technically apt than the average user.

------
ugh
Are there any PC brands out there that (default to) selling clean systems? In
the last years I only had one shocking encouter with a HP laptop (Compaq
brand) and don't really know what the others are doing. I know that my good
old ThinkPad came (five years ago) in a pretty clean state (but I found all
the custom stuff - special buttons HUD, trackpad confuguration and so on - to
be not very polished.)

It's really a shame. The hardware is not so bad. Build quality is ok
(ThinkPads: great!). The price is great. I would feel only a bit terrible if I
were forced to switch my MBP with a HP laptop based on hardware alone. It's
the software. Yeah, you can solve all this. But that's something annoying I
want to avoid. And that is worth quite a bit of money.

~~~
Tichy
I've had good experiences with Dell, but it might depend on the category you
buy from. I've only bought from business selection so far. Also you might have
to uncheck some things in the order dialog.

------
Apreche
Sounds like you setup a system using the disk that came with it. Big mistake.
Try using an actual Windows disc from Microsoft, and you won't have any of
that crap. I think it's pretty obvious that Microsoft gets a lot of flack for
evils perpetuated by the PC manufacturers.

And do I need to mention Ubuntu, etc.?

~~~
brk
The Windows OS is often greatly discounted when purchased with the hardware,
pre-installed.

How do you "use an actual Windows disc from Microsoft" to reinstall without
incurring additional license fees and hassles (IME, the OEM license keys you
get with a Dell box won't let you register a generic Windows install)?

~~~
Tichy
All the Dells I recently had came with proper OS installation disks that did
not come with other crap. Possibly you would have to check "give me the CD"
when ordering the PC, though.

I also so far had no problem installing said OS on other PCs, but mileages may
vary (so many different versions of Windows floating around).

------
Quarrelsome
I was talking to a comedy writer friend of mine and he reckons the way that
the world has been makes both humour and establishing a relationship really,
really easy. The trick is just to be honest. Honesty is now so refreshing (in
a world of "spin") it becomes both hilarious and endearing.

------
jasonlbaptiste
Why doesn't someone just make: "A PC that doesn't suck"? Give me a beautiful
PC in a small form factor with the parts I've requested and with a nice big
monitor. Also give me support that feels personal. Install Windows clean with
the OEM version. That's it.

As far as apps? Partner with base shield or just make an online app store
where people can download what they want.

PCs are a commodity item now. Shoes are a commodity item. Do to the PC Market
what Zappos did to shoes. Good service and a clean experience.

~~~
pyre
The problem with that from a support point of view is that there are _a lot_
more things that can go wrong with a computer than a pair of shoes. Also it
costs a lot more to do something like send the customer a new product under
suspicious circumstances just to keep them happy and loyal. While PCs can be
considered commodity at this point, the wholesale cost is still more than the
wholesale cost of a pair of shoes.

Update: Not to mention that I doubt that Zappos has to custom-build shoes (and
the labor costs associated with that), though I've never done business with
Zappos so I can't say that definitively.

~~~
jasonlbaptiste
You don't have to translate tit for tat what Zappos does. Both businesses are
different at a more granular level, but great service is a universal language.
I know the guy at the local PC store on a first name basis. Why can't I have
that same relationship with my PC vendor and not deal with yet another call
center that is overseas?

Why do I have to deal with 100 fucking SKUs at DELL that all have some random
numbers? You know how Steve Jobs decided the Mac product lineup? A 2x2 grid:
columns for desktop+laptop and rows for consumer+pro. Don't blame Microsoft so
much. Blame the OEMs.

~~~
pyre
> _Don't blame Microsoft so much. Blame the OEMs._

I'm not blaming Microsoft for anything. In general computers have more points
of failure, which means more support calls.

While having a simpler line-up prevents you from overloading the customers
with too much choice, you also end up in the boat where people will go
elsewhere if one of your pre-built machines isn't exactly what they want.
Apple has people griping about this stuff all the time, but people that want
the 'Mac Experience' can't really go to Dell to get it. As far as a generic PC
goes, they _can_ just hop over to Dell to get it. Though I guess you could get
around this by offering customization options that Apple doesn't have, but
then you run into additional labor costs (which a larger competitor like Dell
might be able to cut significantly).

------
brown9-2
I recently bought a Sony Vaio and while there were a number of pre-installed
offers (from Sony itself or for Norton software), overall I was surprised that
it wasn't worse. If I recall correctly it only came with:

    
    
      30 day nagware trial of Norton Antivirus
      30 day trial of MS Office
    

It might be a sad statement that I expected more crap. On the other hand, I
was also very pleasantly surprised that it came with Google Chrome pre-
installed.

~~~
Tichy
So does Google Chrome include the Google Spybar? Because there would be your
answer... In any case it seems likely that Google paid for Chrome on Vaio.

------
travisp
One way I have found to get around this is to buy from "small business"
sections rather than "home" sections. You're far less likely to have to deal
with any random 3rd party crap installed when you order from Dell's Small
Business area.

