
Stuck between a rock and a hard placem: An explanation of Apple’s new MBP - clumsysmurf
http://macdaddy.io/apples-new-macbook-pros/
======
asadkn
Stop defending Apple using the RAM myths floating around. If Dell XPS 15 with
32GB DDR4 ram that's also thin and light can manage 5 hours battery life with
a 56Whr battery, Windows, and HQ series intel processors, there's no reason
Apple couldn't manage more.

Also, the 1.2v SO-DIMM DDR4 ram vs 1.2v LPDDR3 they used have close power
consumption.

~~~
bitwize
Maybe 5h is enough for you, but Apple fans are used to a 10h minimum, likely
more. And very thin hardware.

~~~
jdietrich
"Very thin" is not a professional criterion. There is no context in which an
extra millimetre of bulk means that you're unable to get the job done.

Apple no longer has a truly professional mobile workstation. By focussing
obsessively on size and weight, the whole product line has shifted downwards
in relative performance, leaving a gaping void at the top end. The most
powerful machine in the Apple lineup competes with mid-range PC laptops.

A Windows user can choose from some extraordinarily powerful mobile
workstations. If you need it, you can have 64gb of RAM, a desktop-class CPU,
two desktop-class GPUs and quad M.2 RAID. You have the choice of ultimate
performance or light weight. Apple offers no such choice.

It may be a perfectly rational business decision, but Apple has decided to
abandon the high-end. It has been nearly three years since the Mac Pro was
updated; even on their supposedly high-end desktop workstation, Apple have
traded performance for compactness.

As we have seen on HN, Apple is risking an exodus of professional users. This
exodus has already happened in many fields; I know a great many people in
video and audio post-production who could not tolerate Apple's indifference
towards the needs of media professionals. The abandonment of Final Cut Pro 7
and the inadequacies of FCPX were the icing on the cake. These users were
Apple's mainstay in the difficult pre-iPhone years, but Apple seem happy to
let them go.

~~~
mthoms
_" Very thin" is not a professional criterion. There is no context in which an
extra millimetre of bulk means that you're unable to get the job done._

To argue that thin-and-light is _never_ a valid criteria for professionals is
a bit out of touch.

Many professional designers/developers work from coffee shops, workspaces, the
couch, the airplane, the client's office and so on. Remote workers and digital
nomadism (I hate that phrase) is a huge thing right now. And growing.

The question is whether they've gone too-far in this respect and I agree that
they have. But, that doesn't mean that thin-and-light isn't a perfectly valid
criteria for many professionals.

------
phicoh
What was the author smoking?

"This is also why the only laptops currently available which support >16GB RAM
are huge, like this one which weighs 17 pounds (8KG). "

Except that ThinkPad T460 can be ordered with 32 GB memory and weights
something like 3.8 lbs (1.7 kg)

(of course the upside of the specs being essentially the same as the old one
is that you can use the old MBP until USB-C is widespread enough to make it
worth switching)

~~~
rbanffy
What is the battery life of the TP460?

~~~
phicoh
This page claims 17 hours (with the test described as "Laptop Mag Battery
test, which involves continuous surfing over Wi-Fi at 100 nits of brightness")

[http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/lenovo-
thinkpad-t46...](http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/lenovo-
thinkpad-t460)

------
boundlessdreamz
The article gets some stuff wrong.

1\. Though macbook pro battery capacity has been reduced to 76Wh, he still
attributes not adding more RAM to 100Wh ceiling by FAA

2\. States that only laptops with 32GB is as heavy as 17 pounds and bulky. But
Dell XPS 15 comes with 32 GB and weighs only 4.5 pounds.
[https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Dell-
XP...](https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Dell-
XPS-15-9550-Signature-Edition-Laptop/productID.326871600)

3\. Dell XPS 15 comes with 1 USB-C, 2 USB-3.0 ports, HDMI and SD card reader
and thus don't need dongles and is reasonably slim.

Seriously, if Apple had released something like XPS-15 in features, there
would have been no criticism.

~~~
erebrus
1\. I believe you got the first point wrong. The claim is that they needed
more than 100W to go to 32GB, and not going for 16GB, they didn't need the
extra 26W. 2\. You are partially right. Yes, 4.5 pounds is very different from
18kg, but if you care about portability, it is still a big different from 3
pounds. 3\. The argument he presents is that you need dongles for now, but in
the long term, you will need less dongles. So a bit different from what you
are arguing.

~~~
kbutler
4.4 _pounds_ for xps 15 vs the macbook's 4.02 pounds (15" version). (and if
you want a smaller battery for portability on the xps 15, you can get one at
3.9 pounds)

Looks like the article author was either blinded by fandom or intentionally
misleading.

[https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/](https://www.apple.com/macbook-
pro/specs/) (choose 15") [http://www.dell.com/en-
us/shop/productdetails/xps-15-9550-la...](http://www.dell.com/en-
us/shop/productdetails/xps-15-9550-laptop)

~~~
erebrus
I will be suspicious of any opinion in a website with the word mac or apple in
it's url. First, the mbp is 3 pounds (from your own link). Second, I looked up
the xps 15 also. Not only it is 50% heavier, but it is also much thicker and
in bigger in general. Finally, battery life seems to be 5h vs 10h of the mbp.
These are different compromises that will please different people and not be
acceptable for others.

~~~
kbutler
You forgot the "choose 15 inch" on the apple site:

MBP13: 3.02 pounds (1.37 kg) MBP15: 4.02 pounds (1.83 kg) XPS15: 4.4 pounds
(or 3.9 pounds with smaller battery)

MBP15: 15.5mm 349.3mm 240.7mm XPS15: 17mm 357mm 235mm

But I agree - if you're wanting maximum portability, go with the smaller 13"
device, which is 33% lighter.

But then you may want to compare the XPS13, which is smaller, lighter, newer
CPU, has a larger battery (dell mentions 18h, reviewers tested 10h+, but
actual battery life comparisons TBD), and is also limited to 16gb.

Yes, different compromises.

~~~
erebrus
My bad. I got mixed up with kilos and pounds. Thought 3 pounds was 1.8kg. 4
pounds. I stand corrected.

The thing is. I'm really not an apple fan boy. I've only had one mac. I've had
one iphone and moved back to android. I would never have a desktop mac.
However, the usability, portability and reliability of the mac laptop has made
a huge difference for me. All the little details from the os to the hardware
make it the only laptop that I've had that has been great from my
productivity, even when I was doing physiotherapy twice a day for 6 months and
carrying my laptop between hospital beds.

The Dell XPS13 does have numbers that are interesting, however, if I've
learned something from my experience with a mac laptop is that numbers are
only part of the story. I wouldn't want a windows os and despite still
enjoying linux I really enjoy that I don't need to worry about anything
working properly on the mac, it just does, and I can focus on my work. Then
it's the trackpad (in conjunction with the os)... Minor things, that make a
world of difference.

So...I really really would like to buy something other than a mac, but I just
can't see it.

~~~
boundlessdreamz
Same here. I don't like windows at all though to be fair I haven't used
Windows 10 at all.

But the new MBP is not for me. I really need the USB port and SD card reader.
I'm using a 2010 MBP and I think I will buy the 2015 MBP. It's cheaper, has
all the ports I need and I like the older keyboard. So I will be happier with
it than the latest MBP

------
0n34n7
At the end if the day, people are expecting too much from a slab of aluminum.
If Apple also announced 64Gb RAM iMacs with all the bells and whistles,
perhaps the MacBook Pro backlash would have been less.

I for one will be getting the new MBP. I love MacOS. I love the multi touch
pad. I love the vibrant screen.

If I want to train a neural net, I spin up my Core i7 leaf blower next to my
desk and drink coffee at home.

~~~
mangeletti
I'm a Python developer, and I've been worried about upgrading to MacOS Sierra,
after hearing a few anecdotes about bugs, etc.

Are you a coder, and have you noticed any things that you wish they'd fix;
things that hamper you as a coder?

I love El Capitan, esp how they've finally absolutely perfected full screen
mode / swipe to switch, half-screen, etc. at this point. Is that all still
great?

~~~
mu_killnine
I've been running Sierra for the last month or so and think it's on par with
prior macOS releases. There's been no standout feature that's wowed me, but
there haven't been outstanding bugs driving me crazy either.

Since I don't use the new Siri integration, I couldn't tell you a single
difference between this and El Cap (maybe dark mode?)

I'm a .net developer running vs code and docker most of the time, for
reference. I'm running on a late '13 rMBP.

------
danpalmer
I'm glad someone is being a bit more positive about this. I was a little
disappointed at first, but all of the compromises on this machine are fully
explained by lead time, battery life and pushing industry standards forward.
The first I can't control, the second I don't want to sacrifice, and the third
I'm fully in support of.

The only real issue for me with this laptop is the price increases in the UK.
We're paying about $500 more at current conversion rates than the US price.

~~~
soneil
You're a little off with the UK prices.

The US price, pre-tax, for the base 15" model is $2399. At whatever Google
thinks is the current exchange rate, that's £1948.43 GBP. Add 20% VAT and it's
on the shelf at £2338.12.

The UK price for this model is £10.88 more than the direct exchange rate.

~~~
danpalmer
You are correct, I was not accounting for VAT, I guess as the US price does
_not_ include sales tax. Thanks!

~~~
soneil
They almost never do - US sales taxes vary by state, often city, and sometimes
county. The combination of these is basically a list of tax by zipcode, so
publishing them has more in common with calculating shipping than it does for
us.

I know it doesn't really help (I'm facing the same problem @ 21%!), but the
current conversion is a lot fairer than they've been in the past.

------
kriro
For me the GPU (even the 460) is the biggest disappointment. Doesn't look like
it's good enough to support the VR hardware by Oculus or HTC. Maybe that was
just a pipedream but I seem to recall Apple saying something along the lines
of the next MBP will be "VR ready"

I'll probably still get a 15" MBP as my development machine but I'm not pre-
ordering as initially planned and waiting on some reviews first.

Edit: I just remembered that the Razer Core external GPU adapter has USB-C so
maybe getting one of these to get around this problem could be an option. A
pricey option though.

------
kbutler
My main skepticism on the touch bar is the fact that Apple is not making it a
standard component across the board ( _ahem_ ).

When a user-interface device is non-standard, it tends to not be supported
very well, because companies/developers don't have time to spend designing and
testing the interaction, much less the actual code, for the relatively few
users who have the device.

Apple may have more success with this, because MacOS developers will be more
likely to have it and may want to play with their new toy...

------
kohanz
> _In the long term it’s doing the exact opposite: It’s finally setting USB-C
> /thunderbolt as the standard._

It's not going to set a new standard if it doesn't sell.

~~~
erebrus
Do you realistically think it won't sell? Between fanboys and those for which
the portability (and usability of macos) beats the absolute top performance
you could get...it will still sell enough.

~~~
kohanz
You may well be right. I guess we'll see how much of the MacBook Pro market is
made up by actual professionals.

------
mark-r
When I saw the limit on battery size my head screamed "citation needed", so I
went out and found it for myself:
[https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/hazmat_safety/more_inf...](https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/hazmat_safety/more_info/?hazmat=7)

Is this something new? Have laptop batteries _always_ been less than 100Wh?

------
amelius
Meanwhile, Apple is vertically integrating the whole semiconductor industry
for production of iPhones. If this continues, I'm guessing the price for non-
Apple hardware will go up. What will this mean for general purpose computing?

