
Popular Mac Developer Slams Apple for 'Sad State of Macintosh Hardware' - jordybg
https://www.macrumors.com/2018/06/15/developer-slams-lack-of-mac-updates/
======
zdw
I think this is a combination of issues:

USB-C's ecosystem was confusing and good products never materialized, or if
they did nobody could find them in the sea of junk.

The lack of hardware updates, which seems to have started with the 5-10%
performance bumps Intel piddled out in the absence of competition from AMD
from 2011-2017. Most of the CPU's and GPU's that could have been used frankly
weren't much better than what they'd replace, so from that standpoint,
upgrading the hardware was kind of pointless for an extremely minor
performance benefit.

The keyboards situation is horrible. Failure prone and loud without much
point.

Apple is making a lot of money in the iOS ecosystem. Success hides problems,
and it seems like "if it's not broken, don't fix it" was used as an excuse to
let the Mac languish.

As someone who did nearly all of Apple's IT-related certs in the mid 00's then
watched them slowly decontent and destroy all of their OS X Server and related
software almost immediately as iOS was on the rise, I don't see good things
coming on the horizon.

If you're on a Mac, try to start using primarily OSS software and. Don't get
stuck on a platform that might get abandoned tied to a workflow on software
that isn't portable.

The silly thing is that Apple could (and should) invest in the Mac as it was
pretty great, and could be great again. I'm not holding my breath.

~~~
subway
What's wrong with USB-C?

It's seen a pretty wide-spread uptake over the last couple years, and you're
hard pressed to find a new laptop from any manufacturer that doesn't use it
for charging.

~~~
grk
[https://marco.org/2017/10/14/impossible-dream-of-
usb-c](https://marco.org/2017/10/14/impossible-dream-of-usb-c)

~~~
yebyen
This sounds like an absolutely horrifying state of affairs. I did not know
what a bullet I dodged by opting for the non-touchbar 2015-Mac that still has
those regular old USB-A and HDMI/Mini-DP ports.

> Many Android phones support Qualcomm’s Quick Charge over USB-C, which is
> different — usually — from the official, better, newer USB-C Power Delivery
> (PD) standard. Apple products, some Android phones, and the Nintendo Switch
> use USB-C PD. Quick Charge devices don’t get any benefit — usually — from PD
> chargers, and vice versa.

... and this is just a small sample.

------
metabrew
Mid-2012 MBP with SSD, retina, and 16gb here.

I've got an HDMI port, SD card reader, two USB ports, two thunderbolt ports,
magsafe power, and a proper, reliable keyboard.

I despair at the current crop of mac hardware. If this machine dies on me
before some decent mac hardware arrives, I'm not sure what i'll do - but it
definitely won't involve buying a new macbook with the touchbar, stupid
keyboards, and no ports.

~~~
radicalbyte
I switched from Windows to Mac in autumn-2013. I really hope that either Apple
get their act together or that Microsoft ecosystem finally get the simple
things such as hibernate and trackpads working properly before this machine
gives up the ghost.

~~~
mschuster91
> hibernate and trackpads working properly

I haven't had any problem with hibernation on Windows laptops - quite the
contrary: MacBooks don't have a visible "I am powered on" indicator once
closed, which means that if e.g. some Chrome tab or whatever random crap keeps
the system awake I only notice it when arriving at work, pulling the MacBook
out of the bag and having a superheated mess with empty battery in my hand.

The trackpads on the other hand... haven't seen _any_ Windows trackpad
manufacturer that combines:

\- decent size (=2015-era MBP)

\- decent materials (=the metal/glass combo that Apple uses, instead of black
plastic that grows INCREDIBLY nasty looking after 2 years)

\- decent functionality (reliable gesture recognition without having to worry
at buy time if the included touchpad is Synaptics, Elantech or Alps, or a
knock-off)

\- decent placement (=at surface level like a MBP, not 2+mm recessed which
invites dirt to accumulate)

\- can tolerate wet/oily fingers (yes, I admit, I am one of those typical
nerds eating pizza while working)

~~~
radicalbyte
In the last few years I've had top of the line Dell and Lenovo laptops,
neither got hibernate right. Both had a 15-20% chance of being empty in the
morning.

Touchpads are a joke. They're either tiny or they constantly register phantom
movements (random cursor jumps). I wouldn't be surprised if that's something
which Apple solve in software to be honest; if it was in hardware you'd expect
other brands to have caught up already.

~~~
mschuster91
> if it was in hardware you'd expect other brands to have caught up already

I think it's possible that Apple leverages knowledge from the iDevices lineup
there. After all Apple has had a massive headstart in capacitive multi-touch
sensoring... and a boatload of patents to match.

------
atonse
The most dangerous thing here is that the public is increasingly getting the
message and idea that Apple's mac hardware is decomposing.

They really need to make this a priority. I fear that the success of the
iPhone is blinding them to the importance of the mac. And you can tell because
they're kicking ass when it comes to iOS devices. They're so far ahead in
certain areas, it's not even funny.

This is reminding me of the Steve Ballmer years at MS. The financials looked
GREAT, even though the company completely stagnated when it came to technology
(with some exceptions like the Developer Division).

Similarly, the Mac division's strong imbalance now of choosing form over
function (the designers have taken over the asylum, removing ports, making
keyboards thinner that nobody asked for), is going to continue hurting them
until they change course drastically.

Hopefully we see it soon. Meanwhile, I am clinging on to my MacBook Pro from
2015, still the best MacBook Pro I've owned.

~~~
cremp
> They're so far ahead in certain areas, it's not even funny.

Honestly asking, not trying to throw punches; what are they ahead with? From
everything I've seen/read/heard it's all software, and the hardware itself has
stagnated or is behind by a few months/years of other vendors.

~~~
cdkee
Not sure where exactly they're "so far ahead".

Cameras? Google is on par if not better with the Pixel. Screens? Samsung.

The only area where I could conceivably say Apple is destroying the
competition is the A11 chip.

As an overall package though, I'd say the other major players (Samsung,
Google) are on par with Apple for phones.

~~~
atonse
Yes I was actually mainly talking about their processors (and other silicon),
and the additional performance gains you get from tight hardware/software
integration.

------
dstroot
Apple needs to differentiate it’s lines further. The MacBook can be 2 mm thin
and light as a feather for those who value those features. However, the
MacBook Pro should be a true pro machine with a great keyboard, great screen,
necessary ports, and built like a tank. Thinness obsession has gotten a bit
far IMHO.

------
ksubedi
Like someone else said in another comment, the grass is not green on the other
side. I tried every windows flagship option out there from Asus convertibles
to XPS 15 (still have this) and my experience was not even close to what I had
hoped for. From big issues like coil whine on the XPS 15 to little issues like
battery randomly dying, it seems like no other manufacturer cares about
quality control and human user experience at all.

Ended up getting a 2017 touch-bar 15' pro and could not have been happier. At
least with MacBook I do not have to think about the machine getting in my way
while I am trying to do something productive.

The keyboard situation is bad but I am sure at one point they are going to
have to do a recall or offer free repairs (Apple has done this before, look at
the GPU issues).

The touchbar issue is overblown. Once I adjusted my workflows to use touchbar
and customized the touchbar for the apps I frequently use I have definitely
been a little more productive than my old macbook. People do not like adapting
to changes.

USB C is not a problem anymore, since most of my devices are using USB C
already I can usually get away with just couple of cables (usb c and
lightning) while traveling.

~~~
vivafrance
Get an x1 carbon, install FreeBSD with gnome. Hardware and software blow
windows and macOS out of the water. I can’t fathom how people think MacOS has
angood desktop is — everything is a struggle with their os.

~~~
ksubedi
I have not tried x1 carbon but literally all lenovo laptops I have tried have
horrible trackpads (palm rejection issues on linux, weird tracking).

MacOS is a good OS because it has a very human centric UI and it makes me very
productive. Virtual Desktops that work flawlessly with trackpad, shortcuts
like control command f to switch apps back and forth between fullscreen help
me easily focus on task in hand, app quality is miles ahead of windows
(scaling issues anyone?) and linux just doesn't have enough software available
for anything other than development (video editors, graphics design etc).

------
bogle
The keyboards. The failure rate makes them a risky purchase. You could be just
out of warranty and locked out of your machine. This is happening and driving
people away. I personally am really going to miss that perfect trackpad as
it's not going to be another MacBook Pro for me until this is fixed.

~~~
masklinn
Touch bar as well, the theoretical upsides were few and didn't really pan out.
It would have been an interesting and possibly useful _addition_ to function
keys (especially at a $300 markup) but it's just awful as replacement.

~~~
jkcl
I concur. Buying my MacBook with touch bar add-on was a decision I regret
every day. And every day I miss the old function keys.

In addition, Apple replaced my keyboard (all of sudden, the 'b' key ceased
working) and managed to damage the Touch ID part of the bar, replacing which
led to replacing the entire logic board. The keyboard has been so bad that I'm
expecting it to go again soon, and next time, it won't be in warranty.

Apple, please sort it out. You're still ahead of the pack if you can (a) fix
the quality/bugs, and (b) stop making bad and very experimental design
decisions.

------
grzm
Discussion of the actual article this piece addresses from 4 days ago (over
300 comments):
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17312588](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17312588)

------
slewis
Interestingly for me, the annoyances of the new MacBook have faded into the
background (no escape key, worse keyboard). I learned to hit ctrl+[ in vim,
and don’t mind the keyboard until a key sticks for a little while.

Meanwhile I can’t imagine going back to the thicker form factor.

I don’t mean to downplay people’s issues, and Apple definitely didn’t do a
wonderful job here.

But I do find that my day to day experience is net positive. Humans are very
adaptable.

~~~
matwood
It may be unpopular, but I agree. I held off as long as I could, but finally
ended up with a 2017 MBP. It works fine. I like the keyboard feel. It is a bit
noisy though, and I worry about failures, but good so far. USB-C means I plug
less into the computer than I used to. The dongle situation is a bit
overblown. My 2014 MBP already had special cables for mini-display port and a
dongle for gigabit ethernet.

I am annoyed that Apple cannot seem to just do simple upgrades though. Not
every release has to be some out of this world new design.

------
bborud
Is there any indication that Apple is taking these complaints to heart?

I suspect that the lack of updates may be indicative of Apple switching to an
ARM based CPU for their laptops and desktop machine. If this is the case it
probably wouldn't make sense for them to invest a lot in designing a new
laptop around an Intel processor. It would also explain the delays since they
would both need to get to grips with the hardware design AND provide a
solution for running software compiled for x86 on ARM.

While they have done this before, the task is much bigger this time as there
is considerably more software available for the Mac that would need to work on
the new architecture.

Of course, this still raises questions. The first being how long it would take
to stabilize the platform again. The second whether Apple will be sufficiently
interested in the desktop/laptop market to deliver more consistent and
meaningful product updates going forward.

If they are indeed going to ignore the desktop/laptop market the interesting
question would be how this would affect the sales of their other products.

My guess is that if they manage to break up with developers, through inaction
or otherwise, there is probably going to be a slow decline that nobody gets
particularly worried about until it can't be compensated for with cheap sales
tricks.

------
thisisblurry
Previous conversation:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17312588](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17312588)

------
dschuetz
I'm having a deja-vue. 25 years ago Apple was facing a similar decline in
product diversity, innovation and novelty. With Steve Jobs gone forever I
don't think Apple will survive that one. By a long shot Apple will burn
through their cash very fast, with mediocre products and no innovation in the
pipeline. And I don't see another innovation genius like Steve Jobs with a
determined vision to come around at Apple these days. Good luck with that!

~~~
bborud
Actually, Apple had too much product diversity and one of the things Jobs did
was to simplify the product lineup and make sure that each product counted.

Apple have maintained a relatively simple product lineup when it comes to the
computers, the problem is that they no longer know how to make products that
deliver where it counts.

(Of course, they do have boneheaded products like the dead end stovepipe Mac
Pro, which completely misses the point of what power-hungry users with
generous budgets need, but it appears as sort of a tradition to have the odd
boneheaded computer to satisfy the egos of designers. Given the past history
of Apple I think it is safe to say that high end users have never been a great
priority)

------
jonknee
Hear, hear! I type this on a "Late 2013" MacBook Pro that I would have
upgraded years ago if the replacements were desirable and they can't even keep
those up to date.

~~~
jwalton
I'm on a mid-2012 with a failing battery, some keys don't work unless - shall
we say - you push them with conviction, and just a few weeks ago it had a bit
of a tumble and the LCD panel is now cracked. I'm debating whether I should
buy a 2015 15", or wait for October to see if anything shows up in the next
refresh. -_-

------
Spooky23
I sadly gave up on the Mac. My next personal device is a Dell XPS.

The platform is great, and I liked the (declining) 3rd party ecosystem, but if
the company doesn't give a crap about the platform, why should I?

It's probably too late, but Apple needs to break the industrial design team's
stranglehold on the platform. You can only focus on things that the customer
doesn't care about for so long. I pulled the plug when my colleague had to
spend about $350 on magic dongles for his $2k laptop.

~~~
slantyyz
>> I sadly gave up on the Mac. My next personal device is a Dell XPS.

Switching is a mixed bag.

I notice (at least on HN) that there are two types of people on Mac.

People who are highly sensitized to details and those who are not. If you're
sensitized to stuff like touch pads, coil whine, etc., you may not find
pleasure in switching to a PC, because PC makers don't spend a lot of time on
those details.

If, however, you're not sensitized to small details, switching to PC is a
pretty painless process.

~~~
ropeadopepope
> If, however, you're not sensitized to small details, switching to PC is a
> pretty painless process.

There's another category to consider: Those who use mostly open source apps
and those who prefer a better user experience. Switching is easy if you're the
former. Not so much if you're the latter. The Mac app ecosystem is hands down
the best there is. Mac apps are not just easy to use, but pleasant. Windows
apps are ugly and often difficult to use. Heaven help you on Linux.

~~~
slantyyz
>> The Mac app ecosystem is hands down the best there is.

That is an individualized thing, as different people use different stuff.

There is a lot of great stuff on the Mac. iLife, iWork, Coda, Pixelmator,
Transmit and other apps are great on the Mac, but those aren't apps that are
necessarily used by everybody.

For the most part, I don't feel like I'm missing out after switching to
Windows. I use Affinity products, Sublime Text, DxO Photolab, and they're
pretty much the same as on the Mac.

Go to any platform (including MacOS and iOS), and easily 90% of the apps are
ugly and difficult to use. The top 10% tend to not have that issue.

------
titzer
I switched back to a Linux workstation, after being "all mac laptop" since
2003 (!). My current Macbook Pro is from 2010 and my professional Macbook pro
from 2015. The newest Macbooks with their stupid keyboards and USB-C only are
total garbage, IMO. Sad.

~~~
wklauss
I ended up buying a new 2017 15 inch MacBook Pro and it's really been not that
bad. Yes, you have to use a USB-A to USB-C dongle here and there but at least
for my daily use, it's not been terribly inconvenient. The machine is light
and thin and I enjoy it immensely, although I'm a little scared about the
keyboard (so far no problems). Touchbar?... meh. Neither like not dislike.

I don't know. I understand the new MacBooks are not perfect for everybody but
for me it has been more than OK, and I love the huge trackpad. I feel like a
lot of the criticism seems excessive or are complaints that could very well be
applied to the sad state of the PC industry as a whole.

~~~
izacus
Needing a dongle "here and there" means that now I need to carry it with me at
all times. And that means both USB-A and HDMI dongles. More things I need to
worry about to make my 3500EUR machine useful. This is a clear usability
regression and the "USB-C" only future doesn't seem to be happening until end
of lifetime of this machine.

The keyboard feels bad and my space has started failing. This is also a clear
regression with no benefit over previous model.

Touchbar is still useless with pretty much no features over function keys
(excluding TouchID on the power button). Pretty much no 3rd party apps use it
well and the fact that it can't hold global app shortcuts make it significanly
less useful than the previous keys. Another clear regression.

It's not that the new Macs are bad machines, it's that Apple made a few
baffling decisions which make the user experience worse over previous models.
With pretty much no benefits.

~~~
titzer
> With pretty much no benefits.

It sure is thin! And nice looking! Marchitecture, IMO.

------
lucisferre
Completely agree. Reliability has plummeted with almost every release since
the retina MBP. Crashes are a regular thing and most of the physical
"improvements" outside of compactness and weight have been unwanted. The touch
bar in particular is just a dead appendage.

But my previous and extensive experiences with Linux and Windows ecosystems
tell me that the grass is not greener, so I stay and put up with the problems.

~~~
gutnor
> Crashes are a regular thing and most of the physical "improvements" outside
> of compactness and weight have been unwanted.

I feel like the 3D touchpad is completely underrated but it really is amazing.
It does everything that the mechanical one was doing except better. 2 years
after getting it, I still can't believe it is not mechanical.

~~~
lucisferre
It's neat when you realize it doesn't actually move, and it is definitely an
innovation, but it doesn't really improve the experience in any considerable
way. But I'll give you that. It's also less likely to get stuck in any way.

------
peatmoss
I am a former Mac user who has “come home” to Linux and BSD in recent years.

Between the sad state of the Mac ecosystem (I like both the hardware AND
software less today than I did 7 years ago) and the repost about desktop Linux
UX this morning, I feel like the F/OSS and Mac communities have missed a
golden opportunity.

If I had a time machine and a magic wand, I’d certainly have blessed the
GNUStep project to build the desktop many of us wish we had today. Had some
hypothetical GNUStep desktop captured the mindshare of the majority of Linux
desktops, I could imagine living in a world today in which Mac and Linux
software were more or less a recompile away from portability. I could imagine
a world in which some developers prefer building Mac software with GNUStep
tooling. And I imagine a world in which Apple’s focus, priorities, and
missteps weren’t an existential threat to people trying to make their living
on the Mac.

------
at-fates-hands
I know a lot of people I know have seen this coming and in the past few years
have either switched to Windows (creative types) or to Linux (developer
types).

It's fascinating to see Apple's fall from grace. They were once considered the
go to hardware vendor in nearly every market segment, are now being easily
passed by their competitors.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
The figures don't show that, Mac sales are continuing to rise whilst the rest
of the industry is in decline.

There are clearly some vocal critics here, that isn't real evidence though.

~~~
pwinnski
I think rising Mac sales are masking the problems for Apple.

From Apple's perspective, rising sales demonstrates that the criticisms are
coming from a tiny discontented minority.

From my perspective, sales may be rising for many reasons, but these criticism
don't bode well for the future. All these new Mac users will face the same
problems, and that will slow replacement rate.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
But they will know what the statistics are for returned faulty hardware. If
the reliability rate is as bad as implied then I can't imagine them ignoring
it.

------
BerislavLopac
I've been repeating this point over and over but: if you are a software
developer AND your target platform is non-Apple Unix -- in other words if
you're developing for Web or Android -- there isn't a single reason to choose
Mac over a solid PC running Linux. I've used Mac for years before switching to
Linux, and two years ago had the chance to revisit Mac as the primary
development machine for about 10 months, and my opinion only became stronger.

That doesn't mean that MacOS is not a solid system, and even Apple hardware is
quite good -- I've recently bough a 2013 MacMini (the one with an optical
drive) as my main home theatre and am quite happy. But as a software
developer, I find using the same platform I'm developing for a very important
detail.

------
bootsz
I have an early 2013 MBP that I'm going to hang on to as long as I possibly
can. It is truly a wonderful machine. I'm long out of warranty and just opted
to pay $600 for repairs rather than upgrade. Really hope apple can turn things
around before it finally kicks the bucket for good. Pretty amazing and sad how
a company can take something so good and completely ruin it. To be fair it
probably doesn't help that our culture is so obsessed with constant new-ness
in tech, expecting huge advances every single year which puts pressure on
companies to come up with shiny new features all the time. If it ain't
broke...

------
nik736
I don't get the hate about the MBP. I have the 13-inch 2017 model without the
TB and I absolutely LOVE it. It's such a master piece, I simply love it and
use it as my daily driver. I also don't have any problems with my keyboard, I
only can tell good things about it. The 2 ports suck, but I never was in need
of more, I only use the power adapter and the USB C to HDMI/DP cable that goes
in my 4K screen and that's it. Havn't used any regular USB devices for years
anyways.

The only thing I hate about it is the super slow CPU, but that's only partly
because of Apple.

~~~
StyloBill
"I don't get the hate because I don't need more ports anyway."

See how this is anecdotal? Pretty sure if you were to have different use-cases
you'd like your MPB a lot less.

~~~
skygazer
I don't think it's necessarily reasonable to expect everyone to only
communicate some consensus view. I understand my opinion here is only a
sample-of-one, but I generally need a collection of individual reports before
I can aggregate them.

------
ballenf
"sandworm101" commented[0] in the prior discussion that:

> Given Apple's grip on users, they may even see laptops as a competitor to
> their iPhone business. Time on the macbook is time not on the iPhone.

You can't get very much free / OSS software for your iPhone. You can't get
around Apple's 30% cut on paid software.

At least subconsciously, I believe this thinking explains a lot.

[0]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17313613](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17313613)

------
unknown_apostle
What can't they just take the old non-touch bar 15 inch MBP chassis, put a
decent CPU in that and go to 32 GB using regular DDR4? We'd still have decent
enough battery life.

~~~
criddell
That's what I wonder too. There's so much love for the machines of a few years
ago with all the ports and the old keyboard. Why not just update that machine?

------
addedlovely
Recently got my Mac Book Pro nicked by a kid on a moped - mid meeting.

Sadly am not impressed with the touch bar, lack of USB, keyboard failures and
the hardware is definitely due an update - or a price drop. There's only so
long I'll hold out and wait for an update.

Am currently thinking of getting an iMac - then a chrome book for meetings (so
when it get's stolen again it's not too brutal). Anyone else got other
recommendations?

Assume windows isn't the blue screen mess I remember of days gone past.

~~~
pier25
> Am currently thinking of getting an iMac - then a chrome book for meetings

This is exactly what I did. It's a great combo.

The current iMac 5K is amazing value if you consider how much a 5K monitor
costs.

I agree with most complaints about the Mac, except for the 5K iMac which IMO
is the best Mac ever made.

------
dictum
The MBP is a dead horse at this point, so I took a look at the current iMacs
(I'm used to working on a 27 inch display and 5K tempts me; a standalone high
quality display isn't much cheaper than going with an iMac).

All stock models still come with HDDs.

I hope someone finds some Enron-level accounting trickery at Apple and the
whole thing comes crashing down fast, and some other company can take the role
Apple had from early 2000s to early 2010s.

------
nixgeek
I was excited about the Touch Bar, but it turns out function keys were
entirely adequate. Anyone actually using it for more on a regular basis?

Touch ID on the other hand is incredibly useful, although much like the
iPhone, it seems inevitable we will see Face ID sometime soon (which critics
may point out just means Apple has caught up with Windows Hello).

~~~
adanto6840
I was excited to try leveraging it for something useful when playing our
computer game (SimAirport) but I basically hit a dead end (or at least an
undocumented end) when trying to interface with it from Unity.

Within a month of the purchase I ended up having keyboard issues & returned
it; purchased a refurb 2015 instead. It'll be my last Mac laptop (after >10
MBPs lifetime) unless they really get their act together.

------
pasbesoin
I remain pretty sure that Apple's Mac line is going ARM. Their own custom,
highly performant version.

However, I don't believe this excuses current circumstances.

And a chip swap doesn't address the other, current hardware problems.

I am not a Mac person, so my opinion doesn't carry much weight, on that basis.
Nonetheless, having been reading what's going on, I'd say:

If your career depends on Mac, and you can afford it, I'd buy a 2015 MacBook
Pro before they're gone. Even if it feels like a "waste of money", weigh that
against being without an acceptable machine until Apple gets it together.

I'd also spend for the longer term AppleCare, to try to guarantee having a
working machine until same.

If things don't improve, soon, I wonder what the second-hand market for these
will end up looking like.

------
Shivetya
August 15th is the date I am concerned with because that is when the iMac was
introduced. That is such an ideal date to release the next upgrade to the iMac
line. There have been rumors floating about of a new chassis which would
provide separation from the new iMac Pro.

I am still one of those dreamers who would love a headless Mac with some
ability to add drives and even swap a video card. however Apple has not even
bothered with a new display in ages so I doubt they would have a new headless
mac without one.

Still happily using my 2013 iMac 27 780M video, last of the models that is not
Retina

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMac](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMac)

------
jorisw
I - a web developer - am very content with my 2016 MacBook Pro without the
Touch Bar. The only beef I got is that the keyboard gets dusty and spongy over
time.

I'm hoping that Apple will at some point release a 15" MacBook Pro without
Touch Bar.

------
H1Supreme
For years and years, I've advocated that Apple should just release the OS like
Windows. It runs fine on a lot of PC hardware you can buy off the shelf (I've
built a few PC's that do just this). And, with the Nvidia drivers that were
released a year or two ago, most graphics cards people want to run are
available.

I realize that there's a lot involved with suddenly trying to support an array
of hardware. But, maybe release with a set of suggested hardware, and a "no
guarantees" sort of license.

I've always enjoyed MacOs, but the hardware has been a joke for some time now.
My old G5 Mac Pro was the pinnacle of Mac desktops, imo.

~~~
oppositelock
Apple did to that long ago with MacOS 7. It didn't work so well, since they
undercut sales of their own hardware. Jobs killed the licensing when he
returned to the company.

Today, OS X is good enough that is still gets people to buy their outdated
hardware. They'd be crazy to license it and give up that lockin. It's not a
good situation, but we're not going to see OS X licensed to other
manufacturers anytime soon.

~~~
slantyyz
Those clones weren't too bad though. And IIRC, Power Computing did way more to
evangelize the Mac platform at the time than Apple did. Their ads were great.

~~~
mullingitover
The clones were great. TOO great, they were a superior value to what Apple was
selling on the high end, which was why they had to go.

------
virusduck
It would be heartening if someone from Apple at least said they were hearing
the complaints. Number one, IMO, being this idiotic keyboard. Then the ports,
then the touchbar fiasco. Stagnation is not nearly as big an issue as those
issues. As others have said, change in technology in general has stagnated. If
I HAD to buy a new laptop today, I might buy a Macbook, but I'd have a hard
look at the state of the competition's trackpads first. Then probably go with
the older MBAir with the better keyboard....

------
thisisit
Original link to the author's article:

[https://weblog.rogueamoeba.com/2018/06/14/on-the-sad-
state-o...](https://weblog.rogueamoeba.com/2018/06/14/on-the-sad-state-of-
macintosh-hardware/)

which was discussed earlier:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17312588](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17312588)

------
ballenf
Ben Thompson at Stratechery may not have been the first to suggest this, but
he has made a strong argument that Apple should spinoff the Mac business.
Either to a subsidiary or to a 3rd party.

I see a lot of risk and potential downsides, but with each new disaster of MBP
released or eternity between updates it becomes more attractive.

The tight integration with the iPhone (phone calls, messages, handoff) might
suffer and that would be painful.

------
alasdair_
My biggest issues is the lack of memory past 16gb in the "pro" line of
macbooks.

Right now I'm working on some integration tests with 5-6 different codebases
and I have an intellij window for each. Then I have a couple of dozen chrome
tabs open, a bunch of terminals and (most importantly for memory) a whole
stack of docker containers and virtual machines.

16gb is a major blocker.

------
megaman22
If you want a real MacBook Pro, I don't understand why they axed the 17" line.
Those machines were beasts. Everyone I know who got one in college is still
running them almost a decade later. For really doing work, a full keyboard and
screen real-estate is king.

------
okket
Previous discussion from a few days ago:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17312588](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17312588)
(331 comments)

------
oneweekwonder
Personally I'm in love with my MacBook Air.

Any similar ultrabook alternative at $950+-?

------
mainliningfbs
Isn't the bigger issue for Apple that iOS is run by devs on the Mac platform?
If devs start moving away from Mac computers, it becomes less likely they will
develop for the App Store.

------
msie
If only we heard from someone inside Apple. Maybe there’s strife in the
company? Jony Ive dragging his heels on a design? Some middle manager
obstructing progress? Supply line issues?

~~~
protomyth
Well, they fired Scott Forstall a couple of years back. I really think its
because a COO is now the CEO and the biggest concern for the Mac line is
maximizing profit margin in the supply chain by producing older models or
making questionable quality affecting decisions. Operations running your
company seems to be worse than Marketing. I miss Product People.

------
intrasight
From a business standpoint, it's hard for Apple to justify investing in a
product like that contributes a small and diminishing fraction of their
revenue.

~~~
jonknee
What a ridiculous statement. It's over 9% of their (giant) business, it would
be a Fortune 500 company itself if not part of Apple.

~~~
intrasight
9% is small - and it is shrinking

------
Yuioup
Why don't you get a decent laptop and put Linux on it?

~~~
psychometry
Because some people care about user experience.

