
The hazy issue of weed and work - kawera
http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20170725-the-hazy-issue-of-weed-and-work
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arca_vorago
I wish people would stop equating cannabis (the correct term) with alcohol.
For me and my combat vet friends, it's our medicine, usually a replacement for
the serotonin zombie bullshit the VA tries to give us. Of course if the job
position is one of, say, operating heavy machinery, etc, drug use should at
least be disclosed, but in states that are legal, cbd strains and smaller
controlled doses in edibles etc mean I bet there are a lot of people who are
high at work and you just don't have a clue. Its just not the same as showing
up drunk. Do you immediately fire the guy who takes his adderal?

Too bad I live in a state that doesn't recognize the medical benefit yet, so I
forgoe for legal reasons, but some of my buddies in the same state are
literally risking jail and worse just to use their medicine.

Its not an employers business whatsoever unless relevant to the particular
job. Also, people need yo stop signing employee agreements and whatever paper
HR shoves in their face. Last place I was at I signed one document, and just
threw away the drug testing paper. Without those papers signed many employees
have no recourse on the subject at all anyway. Of course, many people are so
far entangled in one form or another they let their employee walk all over
them. People ought to be more willing to walk out the door in at will states,
and need to be more specific about trigger conditions in contract work.

~~~
i_am_nomad
I agree with you, cannabis seems to help a lot of people, and nearly anything
that reduces rates of opioid abuse is a good thing.

But, man, am I tired of smelling it everywhere. If cannabis users are going to
be so inconsiderate about stinking up common spaces, it's going to be
difficult to support legalizing it for recreational use.

~~~
t0mbstone
If they use a proper vaporizer or an edible or any number of other techniques,
the smell isn't a problem.

Only uneducated idiots actually smoke the stuff anymore. There are so much
better delivery mechanisms nowadays which are much less harsh on your throat
and lungs, it's not even funny.

Source: I used to live in Denver, and I knew a lot of friends and co-workers
who used vaporizers and never had a problem with smell.

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stinos
_And marijuana use is expected to jump significantly over the next few years
in North America._

They don't tell who exactly expects that, nor what the chances are such
expectation will hold true (nor whether it will in the long run, over the
course of decades). At first sight it makes sense, but does it really? I
couldn't find any large scale studies, but searching the internet seems to
indicate the outcome can go both ways. There's enough articles to be found
saying there's actually a decline in use after legalization (e.g. in Portugal
and California). Likewise for the opposite. Conclusion to me: you can expect
what you want, but without a proper scientific approach to evaluating it you
just don't know for sure.

~~~
mturmon
As a California resident, anecdotally, I observe a lot more MJ use. This is of
course what you'd expect after decriminalization.

Quick googling does not turn up numbers. Do you have a concrete basis for your
conjecture?

~~~
chillwaves
Observing more because there is not the threat of legal jeopardy is not the
same as more people using or people using more.

------
bittermang
I'll say this here. Because IDGAF.

I worked at a call center. We had an hour for lunch. I had it timed down to a
science. I could drive home, even in severe winter conditions, get up to my
apartment, and queue up an episode of American Dad on Netflix. I had exactly
the amount of run time of that episode at home for lunch, and I would smoke at
least two bowls from my water pipe. If the morning had been especially hectic
with angry customers, I'd hit it harder.

I'd walk back in to work with 10 minutes to spare. Sit down, catch up on
emails I'd seen but ignored in the morning, and get situated back at my desk.
Because it was a call center, and it was better to be 10 minutes early back
from my lunch instead of 30 seconds late. I would then field my best calls of
the day, and my metrics would prove this. I got the best response rates, the
best feedbacks, and generally just felt the best about those calls. There was
no anxiety, just two people on a phone call, and getting some tech support.

Was I driving while impaired on the way back to work? Yeah, and that shit is
bad news, I'm not defending that. But given the stress and rigors of the call
center, it's what I did to cope. This was before I took my mental illness
seriously as an illness, and sought professional help with a doctor. Just me
self medicating at home on my lunch break. But the raw data of my performance
numbers don't lie, when I was blazed out of my fucking head, I was the best
man or woman on the floor, period.

My manager loved me. But she didn't know every time we'd have our monthly
face-to-face performance meetings, I was blazed out of my head then too. Why?
She always booked them after my lunch break. My actual goal in those meetings
was to see how much of her time I could waste, because they were only
scheduled for a half an hour, and they want you on the phones producing all
the rest of your metrics non-stop. But if I could get her talking and keep
talking about work stuff, that meant more time I wasn't sitting under the
barrel of the phones.

I don't know that I have a point to any of this. Just anecdotal evidence to
throw on the pile from my own personal experience. But I only feel compelled
to bring it up because that job was such a numbers and performance driven
affair, and my data backs me up on this. I had actual proof in the numbers,
beyond just the assumption that I was doing better because I felt better
because I was high.

~~~
oxide
If you did this every day, there is little to no issue with you driving.
Regular users get a tolerance, even my grandma will drive while high if she
has a proper tolerance and its only a bowl or two.

They were strict when I first came to help them about not smoking and driving,
which I of course respected.

However once Grandma was smoking daily she realized its really a non-issue.
Even for her. She's 66 btw.

As long as you have a tolerance. That is the key here.

If you do not:

then you shouldn't drive until you have a shower, some snacks and a light nap.

~~~
bittermang
I'm talking North Dakota weather. Three inches of ice on the roads, but fuck
it they plowed, and that's the weather of the city and nobody gives a fuck and
no businesses are closing. Not like Dallas where a quarter of an inch of just
slushy snow could shut down the entire Metroplex, I'm talking harsh Winter.

I know about tolerance. From my personal experience I actually very much enjoy
actively smoking a blunt while I'm driving down the highway or interstate. But
it's still impairment. I am still not of my regular faculties while driving.
Even if my regular faculties are wrecked with anxiety and more likely to get
me in to an accident. Regardless, if, for whatever reason, anything should so
happen and I wreck, it automatically becomes my fault. No ifs ands or buts
about it in the face of the current law. And I can't readily defend against
that, I think that's the right call.

~~~
oxide
Couldnt agree more, tbh. If the weather is bad you should never get behind the
wheel impaired.

Fair point on the law.

------
overgard
Honestly I think the smartest thing you can do as a company when it comes to
weed is.. nothing. It's just not the employers business what people do in
their free time. There's no upside to getting involved with that kind of
issue. If you have an employee showing up high or something that's an issue
with their professionalism.

~~~
knodi
This. Treat it like alcohol. Drink as much as you want, just don't come to
work drunk or drink on work time.

~~~
ShabbosGoy
Haha, I'm guessing you never worked in the Valley.

~~~
notyourwork
Drinking at work and working while drinking are not the same thing.

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thebigspacefuck
My company has a policy of drug testing but I don't know anyone that has been
tested. A couple of my coworkers that have been with the company longer than I
have, grow or have grown weed and talk about it at work. Around 4/20 one of my
managers said he doesn't care if we smoke weed. But, there's still doubt.
Personally I enjoy weed better than alcohol and they're both a matter of going
down the street and showing my ID to get. I bought an ounce to keep in my
fridge right now but I haven't been using it much because of the doubt
surrounding drug testing and whether it is acceptable. I find other ways to
deal with stress (kava is my go to atm), but I wish I could feel more
comfortable with using weed. I don't think it's the best thing long term but
my mind is in overdrive 90% of the time and it helps me actually slow down and
feel things. I miss it.

~~~
rhcom2
First time I've heard of kava but the way you describe "overdrive" is exactly
why I continue to use marijuana to slow down after work. Would you mind
expanding on how you use kava and how it's effects compare to weed?

~~~
thebigspacefuck
I drink 2-4 bags of the Yogi brand Kava tea they sell at most grocery stores.
There's also a Kava bar in town where I've had the "real" Kava, but I didn't
find that I noticed much more of an effect and some of the extracts upset my
stomach. What I notice is that my stress dissipates and I slide into one calm
train of thought. Tension leaves my body. I can read or watch a movie without
feeling like I should be doing something else. It doesn't have any stimulating
psychoactive or physical effects, but it's good if you want to shed the coat
you carried home from work.

------
adekok
In Canada, lawsuits have indicated that being impaired at work isn't
necessarily a firing offence. If being sober is a job requirement, you can get
fired for not meeting those requirements. But if you're drunk in a call
center.. you might not need to be sober to do the job.

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elchief
If they test for weed, they should have to test for alcohol too. Especially
the day after the company golf tournament.

~~~
bittermang
A skinny kid is looking at a few weeks for the joint they smoked to leave
their system. An overweight person is looking at roughly 30 days. Obesity
takes you in to ??? mark mode, as many as 90 days is plausible from what I've
seen. That's just casual use, habitual users skew the math wildly. Why? THC
metabolizes in to your fat cells, and sticks around.

Alcohol? Since it's typically just a urine test, you can expect the traces to
be gone within hours. If they're doing a liver enzymes test, they can detect
alcoholism or heavy alcohol use in a wider window, but it still doesn't
compare to the time weed stays in you.

Further, alcohol abuse can generally be explained away because it's accepted
by society. As long as you're not obviously drunk when talking with them about
it, you can get a pass. Weed is the devil's herb, cause of all manner of
calamity and reefer-madness, don't'cha'kno. There's no explaining testing
positive for marijuana away.

------
wolco
No one talks about the benefit of being high while working in a creative job.
Forward thinking companies should offer it the same way beer on Fridays is
offered (only where legal of course)

~~~
bittermang
I worked in the games industry for a stint. Five out of every four people
smoked weed. Because for every person who didn't, there was that one guy who
REALLY did.

How the fuck else are you supposed to make games about slaying dragons and
defending extra-terrestrial Earth colonies from fungal-based zombie invasions?
Somebody's gotta be high to come up with that somewhere in the development
pipeline.

~~~
bittermang
And for that matter. You know that scene at the end of Big Hero 6 where he
goes through the portal? And the surreal bleeding colors of the infinite void?

I know -- KNOW -- whoever worked on the Environment Art for that scene has
done mushrooms, LSD, or both. Because that's the only way you truly know what
that sensation looks like, IMHO. And the way they were able to capture it in
3D animation was spectacular. Big Hero 6 is just Pixar showing off art
ability, if you ask me, since it was a licensed IP and they didn't have to
work too hard on characters and plot.

But I digress.

------
Animats
There's a startup, Hirebotics, that's working to replace druggies with robots.
Hirebotics provides the robots, which are Universal Robots from Denmark,
programs them, monitors them, and bills by the hour, like workers. The
Washington Post reports on a plant that's gradually replacing employees with
these robots on a 1 for 1 basis.[1] The reliable employees are kept. The
marginal ones, well...

[1] [https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/rise-of-the-
machines...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/rise-of-the-
machines/2017/08/05/631e20ba-76df-11e7-8f39-eeb7d3a2d304_story.html)

------
shams93
This is really overblown. People who use alcohol but have never touched
cannabis likely assume that it makes you drunk like booze. Stoned people have
a lower baseline stress level. When you are in a state of decreased stress you
can think more clearly and effectively than someone who's mind is clouded with
stress. None if these papers want to touch the toxic effect stress has at the
workplace, stress does far more damage than any drug.

~~~
pmoriarty
_" Stoned people have a lower baseline stress level."_

That really varies widely, depending on how much of which kind of cannabis you
use, how you use it, and the individual that uses it.

It's possible to have a very stressful experience if one takes too much or
uses cannabis that's too strong. Some people can have panic attacks,
effectively "bad trips", or even psychotic breakdowns (if they're prone to
schizophrenia.. and you might never really know if you are until you have
one).

Many people do in fact get stress relief from using cannabis, but that effect
is by no means guaranteed. You might wind up stressing out, and even freaking
out, instead.

Hopefully, when people use cannabis at work, they'll be doing so in
moderation, but that's not guaranteed either -- some people do all sorts of
irresponsible or ill-advised things.

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smkellat
I'm in a position where I sit behind a keyboard and answer the telephone all
day. Nonetheless, I pretty much have the raw power to destroy someone's life
financially even at such a low rank in the organization. That we don't have
widespread drug testing but do have a problem with rehiring staff who were
discharged for misconduct says quite a bit about the organization too.

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Zenst
Really it gets down to all drugs tests should only be carried out after a
failure of an initial impairment test. That then covers both sides of the
issue as fairly as possible.

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jerrylives
The issue gets even more interesting when you factor in working from home.

Is it wrong to smoke weed while "on the clock" in your panties on the couch?
Perhaps if it compromises the deliverable but if the employee is productive,
efficient, and timely - should it matter if they are st0ned or not?

~~~
Overtonwindow
I feel like this might have been touched on previously. Companies ordering
stay at home employees to get drug tested. If I can't work high in my
underwear at home then that would severely crimp my ability to work.

~~~
swiley
I guess everyone is different. There's no way I could work like that, I always
have to dress like I would show up in an office and go somewhere (anywhere
really, even a park) other than where I live.

