
The Warlike Origins of ‘Going Dutch’ - DoreenMichele
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/where-does-going-dutch-come-from
======
vanderZwan
So I'm sure this exists in other countries too, but in the Netherlands there
is this website called "wie betaalt wat", which roughly translates to _" who
pays what/something"_.

When going out you take turns paying and just keep track of how much you paid.
Then at the end of the night (or the next day, or whenever) everyone fills the
amount they paid, and once that is done the website calculates how to evenly
spread the net cost with the least mount of cash transfers.

Basically, splitting the bill is such an essential part of Dutch culture -
even though most people I know are not aware of this actually being called
"going Dutch" in English-speaking countries - that we automated it.

[0] [https://wiebetaaltwat.nl/about/what](https://wiebetaaltwat.nl/about/what)

~~~
taurath
Younger people everywhere do this, especially in non-pub cultures where its
not likely that the same group of people will meet up again. In the US its
extremely common to split things - only some business meetings, family
gatherings or extremely close friends is a group all paid as one, or sometimes
one person pays while everyone uses a payment app to pay them back.

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roel_v
Ironically enough, out of the several dozens of wars the Dutch and the
English/British fought where both parties were involved, in more wars we
fought together rather than against each other (I forgot where I read that the
other day). So in that sense the commonly held idea that we're 'long term
rivals' is not correct. (I also don't remember if that accounted for 'number
of years at war against/together', that may skew things).

~~~
Symmetry
And if William and Mary had had an heir you might very well have seen the
Dutch and English united under one crown. Well, Crown for the English,
Stadtholder for the Dutch.

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alejohausner
How do people from the Netherlands refer to themselves? "Dutch" or
"Netherlander"? Have Netherlanders shied away from the word "Dutch", as a
reaction to the derogatory connotation that the word carries in English?

I'm asking because I read somewhere that "Dutch" was the original term used by
inhabitants of the Rhine delta to describe themselves.

~~~
0xcoffee
Dutch person here with my anecdote. Call myself Dutch and didn't know 'Dutch'
has a derogatory connotation. Never heard the term 'Netherlander'

~~~
Symbiote
Anyone can derogate any nationality, but that doesn't make the word itself
derogatory.

Some terms were once acceptable, but with widespread racism in the 20th
century are now offensive (British English examples: Paki and Jap), but Dutch
is certainly not one of these. There is no other reasonable word for a person
from the Netherlands.

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Vinnl
Hmm, given this description I would also expect there to be plenty of use of
"English" as a denigrating term in Dutch, but... I can't think of any. Is that
just me?

~~~
Symmetry
Well, except for "going Dutch" and "Dutch oven" all those phrases have fallen
out of use, or in other words all the obviously denigrating phrases about the
Dutch are gone. So its not surprising that if there were any similar
expressions in the Dutch language they might be gone too.

~~~
jibbit
not really.. Dutch courage, Dutch uncle and Dutch comfort are common enough

~~~
AlecSchueler
Double Dutch very common also.

------
SinkingShips
As a Dutchman in London I was a bit appalled by the use of 'Dutch Courage' on
a pub sign. It's not terribly civil of our British friends to use these
phrases but knowing the context makes it all right - I mean, we both know our
navy has always been better, we should let them have this one.

~~~
hellofunk
I hear the Dutch use that same phrase in the Netherlands, and they don't see
it as derogatory.

~~~
pieterr
We use the term “moed indrinken”, if that is what you mean.

[1] [http://context.reverso.net/translation/dutch-
english/moed+in...](http://context.reverso.net/translation/dutch-
english/moed+indrinken)

~~~
hellofunk
Well, I've had Dutch use the phrase "Dutch Courage" in English when speaking
to me about their drinking habits. You can be the judge.

------
nailer
> The Dutch oven, a lidded pot that can be used for baking, may or may not be
> part of this trend: It’s not truly an oven, but the Dutch may have simply
> been good at producing them.

I don't think anyone who uses the term 'Dutch oven' is referring to cookware,
and the definition they're using is far more insulting to the Dutch.

~~~
gadders
I'd never even heard of the cooking Dutch Oven until the internet and hearing
Americans refer to it. They're not particularly common in the UK at all in my
experience.

I would expect 80%+ //edit// _UK_ people to immediately think of farting under
the covers if I asked them what it meant.

~~~
jlarcombe
Yes, I'm not sure why the original post is being downvoted. It's exactly
right!

~~~
mywittyname
This site is predominantly American. Thus, if you ever say, "I don't think
anyone ..." it will be understood by a large segment of the viewership here to
mean, "I don't think any American ..." So if you don't mean to say that, it's
probably wise to specify where you're from before making broad comments.

A Dutch oven is a very common cooking vessel in the Atlantic USA. It has
strong roots in colonial America, many traditional foods are cooked in them.
It's colonial roots are precisely where the name comes from, they were
originally produced in the Netherlands and shipped to the colonies (who were
prohibited from producing iron goods very early on by the Crown).
Additionally, it's widely used during camping, which is still a popular
passtime in the American midwest.

~~~
nailer
> Thus, if you ever say, "I don't think anyone ..." it will be understood by a
> large segment of the viewership here to mean, "I don't think any American
> ..."

People on HN or anywhere else on the internet should not assume everyone else
is American. Obvious hint: they're on the internet.

> it's probably wise to specify where you're from before making broad
> comments.

No. If someone has a different experience, it's better to ask where they're
from. I can afford the downvotes for a little bit of priciple.

~~~
mywittyname
I'm just helping you understand where the downvotes are coming from. You're
right that the HN should be less Americanocentric, but it isn't.

If you had said, "here in Australia ..." people probably would have given you
an upvote. FWIW, I try to preface my cultural statements with "here in the
Midwestern US" for the same reasons: I try to provide context for my
statements to people from different regions because what applies here, does
not apply in Texas or California.

~~~
nailer
No problem. I already understand where the downvotes are coming from, you
don't need to explain.

I'd edit my comment to add a "I'm from X" but it was too late and I'm not
particularly concerned with points.

The best part was people keep talking about Dutch ovens with boy scouts which,
in Aus or the UK, sounds like they're discussing farting in a tent.

