
China drafts law protecting foreign IP and prohibiting forced tech transfer - malloryerik
https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/2179368/china-drafts-law-protecting-foreign-intellectual-property-and
======
ttflee
Funny how the constitution of China is not enforcible. You cannot sue the
government against its violation of constitution. On the other hand no one
believes in the political rights promised in constitution anyway.

Edit: I am prepared to be downvoted. Running China mostly depends on the use
of administrative branches. The law enforcement agencies, the prosecution
agencies and the the courts are all subdivisions of corresponding governments,
under the direction of corresponding party committee. The people‘s congress
should supervise the government, de jure. But that only happened in a parallel
universe.

~~~
justicezyx
Not sure why you think this will be down voted.

We learn in junior (or senior highschool) China's legal systems has a few
fundamental issues: 有法不依 (laws are ignored), 执法不严 (laws are not enforced
effectively). Those basically cover the problem you mentioned about the
government.

~~~
doctorpangloss
Then the real question is why such a seemingly negative statement is favorable
to the CPC.

If we rehearse these lines as Westerners, are we repeating a piece of
propaganda? I think so.

My feeling is that the important narrative for the CPC is, “Everyone has it
bad.” It keeps people from questioning why senior Party members have it so
good and how.

~~~
justicezyx
It's not favorable

It's just that these statements are taught to students, but they are not
following the spirit of these statements either.

Do what I do, not what I say. And people are not really having the mentality
of behave according to rules and laws.

I just point out that OP should not be down voted, as what op stared is
universally known as a fact, it's just not only apply to government or rich
and powerful.

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auganov
Can't stress enough how broken the Chinese judiciary is. You'd think the bias
has to do mostly with big cases involving huge corporations. Unfortunately I
learned first hand how crooked the system is. The laws don't matter when the
other (Chinese) party submits obviously fake documents as evidence and gets
away with it. Don't ever under any circumstance expose yourself to the Chinese
legal system.

~~~
auganov
And thinking of this given how common the problem of permissiveness towards
lying and fraud in China is, I guess even as a foreigner you could play this
game and get away with it. So there doesn't even have to be the most primitive
nationalistic bias going on. Most simply won't do this because of how tough
our cultures are on such behavior. And even if you do you're still
disadvantaged because of your lesser knowledge of the system and/or language.

Couldn't edit so made a new comment.

~~~
dylan604
Without trying to get too political, using similar styles of lying can get you
to become the US president. It's not about the lie itself as much as the
willingness to bend the truth to fit whatever the narrative is.

Again, not trying to start up political discourse, but just want to point out
this is not an inherently Chinese thing. It's more of a totalitarian thing
really. Do/Say whatever to get into power and then stay in power.

~~~
AmericanChopper
You don’t want to get to political, but the US is a totalitarian regime with a
president who lied his way into office? I think you missed the mark a little
there.

~~~
scarface74
You can say a lot about Trump. But he was the most honest politician during
the campaign. He told America exactly who he was and exactly what his base
wanted to hear.

~~~
rosege
Telling your base exactly what they want to hear doesn't make you honest.
There were a campaign slogan that he later said during another rally was just
bullshit but he said it because it played well. There was a Daily Show where
they showed it but I cant find it now but I can find things like this which
illustrate the point:
[https://www.independent.co.uk/News/world/americas/jared-
kush...](https://www.independent.co.uk/News/world/americas/jared-kushner-
donald-trump-lied-base-stupid-voters-supporters-president-son-in-law-white-
house-a7764791.html)

------
ilamont
_Although the government will still have the right to expropriate the property
of foreign investors under special circumstances, the new draft law requires
that the process must be done through legal procedures and include “fair and
reasonable” compensation._

Reading between the lines: no guarantee of any legal or financial protections.
Your case can be deemed a special case, or go through the same "due process"
that foreign firms have been subjected to for decades that typically end up
benefiting the joint venture partner or domestic industry. And, even if you
win, good luck getting paid.

Business as usual in the PRC.

See also:

[https://www.industryweek.com/intellectual-property/what-
coul...](https://www.industryweek.com/intellectual-property/what-could-be-
done-about-chinas-theft-intellectual-property)

[https://www.caixinglobal.com/2018-11-28/paid-in-china-
bill-c...](https://www.caixinglobal.com/2018-11-28/paid-in-china-bill-
collecting-poses-big-challenge-for-foreign-firms-101352629.html)

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SlowRobotAhead
As someone that has had an embedded product completely ripped off in China
(well, it means we’ve arrived!)...

Any and all talk about China reforming IP laws fall squarely into _”I’ll
beleive it when I see it”_.

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NicoJuicy
Give some, take a lot. Considering the latest actions of China, I think this
is just a bait and switch.

If you don't believe me, read
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Swindles](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Swindles)

------
tiscg
Law in China is ridiculous. Don’t forget Chinese government arrest more than
100 lawyers in last two years

~~~
nikanj
With a population of over a billion, that's a really low number. The EU and
the USA together have around 850 million people, and I'd be surprised if they
didn't arrest a hundred lawyers within the last two years too.

One person in a thousand is a lawyer = a million lawyers in China. One lawyer
in a thousand is a criminal = a thousand lawyer criminals in China.

The scale of the country boggles the mind.

~~~
PavlovsCat
We know China is a big country. Did you actually assume the issue was the
commenter wasn't aware of that? Incredible.

[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-
china-42743961](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-42743961)

> A prominent Chinese human rights lawyer has been detained while walking his
> child to school, his family says.

> Yu Wensheng, a vocal critic of China's ruling Communist Party, was seized by
> about a dozen people, including a Swat team, after he left his flat with his
> son on Friday morning, his wife said.

[..]

> It is not clear where Mr Yu is being held, and local police told the AFP
> news agency they were not aware of his detention.

> His wife, Xu Yan, told Reuters news agency: "I have not received any legal
> document about his detention and don't even know what crime he is suspected
> of committing."

[..]

> Mr Yu, a former commercial lawyer, has worked on many sensitive cases,
> including defending other human rights lawyers detained by the government.

They're criminals in the eyes of the Chinese government. It's a bit like
declaring people murdered by drones enemy combatants because they were
murdered by drones -- not good enough.

------
cauldron
There's a saying in China:

Legislation is stringent, enforcement is selective, violations are pervasive.

~~~
m0zg
Russian variant of the same: "The severity of Russian laws is compensated by
optionality of compliance with them." This, and the lack of independent
judiciary branch, actually gives the government total power over the
individuals and businesses. Laws (including tax laws) are written such that
there's really no way to live and not break any of them, which is why the
government always "has something on you" if it wishes to prosecute you or just
take your money because you don't "share" it with government officials.

~~~
zozbot123
"Do you really think we want those laws to be observed? We want them to be
broken. There is no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government
has is to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals,
one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes
impossible for men to live without breaking the law. Create a nation of
lawbreakers and then you can cash in on the guilt." \--Ayn Rand

~~~
m0zg
She was speaking from experience.

~~~
cauldron
That's one aspect, the opposite side of it is if you don't violate the laws
you can't survive coz everyone else is doing so, powerful ones even get free
pass.

------
DeonPenny
At this point, if any country or countries with cheap plentiful labor gets it
stuff together this could cause a problem.

~~~
throwaway5uie
But then it would be those cheap countries stealing IP. Just like Japan, South
Korea, Taiwan, and China before them.

~~~
lowkey
And the United States was notorious for IP theft before them.

Fun Fact: the word Yankee is Dutch for pirate - not a coincidence.

~~~
beginningguava
there was no world trade organization or global free trade agreements back
then.

Not to mention the most common thing the US is accused of was a former worker
bringing his knowledge to the US and recreating a factory from memory. He
didn't get paid by the US government to steal blueprints like China does today

------
baybal2
A shorter and more concise article
[https://www.dawn.com/news/1453299](https://www.dawn.com/news/1453299)

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baybal2
If read the article well, you will see that really nothing changes

> When in place, the new law would bar local governments from restricting
> market access for foreign firms and from forcing them to transfer
> technology.

> This will ensure foreign investors would enjoy the same privileges as
> Chinese companies in most sectors except those excluded on a “negative
> list”.

This is exactly how it is right now.

There are really not a single national law saying that somebody has to
transfer technology to a joint venture partner.

The few cases of _local_ provincial and subprovincial officials instating any
extra requirements are just their "administrative creativity," and Beijing
really doesn't mind humiliating local level officials some more few more
times.

~~~
rasz
China is build on this "administrative creativity", 27K km of high speed rail
is a prime example. Nobody will seriously work to harm Chinese giants.

------
allengeorge
Laws mean nothing unless they’re enforced. And, people have a reasonable
expectation - and confidence - via anecdotes and lived experience, that you
won’t be pressured via informal means to take actions prohibited by law.

------
BurningFrog
OK, so laws are generally not followed in China.

Is it not at least true that _if_ China was going to start following these
rules, making a law would be one of the steps that would be part of the
process?

~~~
SllX
One day, if the Rule of Law ever means something of quality, substance and
worth to your average PRC citizen, sure, having a law on the books might be
helpful.

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rqs
"Foreign investment law", does that implies the "forced technology transfers
by administrative means" is still OK if it is enforced upon domestic
companies?

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sonnyblarney
Great first start, but talk is cheap. What happens on street level will be
more informative, I wish there was a way to measure this ...

------
torgian
Yay for China. Too bad 99% of the businesses and people there don’t care.

------
mtgx
Good luck getting the law enforced fairly, though.

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mindslight
Okay, so China continues to play the game of make believe...

The real news will be when the US empire stops trying to force the concept of
imaginary property.

