
Australian police issue warning on 3D printed guns - samuellevy
http://www.techworld.com.au/article/462774/nsw_police_issues_warning_3d_printed_guns/
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astangl
Is anybody surprised? Even the inventor of the gun seems quite hesitant about
how many times it can be fired safely. Anyone setting out to show how
dangerous it can be can simply keep firing it until failure occurs. Voila!

If article made any mention of how many times that gun was fired until it
failed, I missed it.

~~~
orangekawi
Better still, did they mention what ammunition was used? Police typically use
+P+ ammunition, especially in smaller calibers like .32 and .380. I have no
doubt that the original inventor used standard pressure loads or even sub
sonics to decrease the chance of a failure such as this. In the end the gun
was a POC anyways, designed to show what could be done.

What I find more disconcerting is the continue emphasis on how the gun is
"undetectable". While it is certainly harder to detect because of the small
number of metal pieces, you still have the ability to detect bullets!! Or are
they so focused on the gun itself that they haven't kept up technology to
detect gun powder?

As others have mentioned.. its all about drumming up noise to defend their
removal of this information from the Internet.

~~~
nsxwolf
Defense Distributed added a piece of steel to the final build to make it
detectible and legal. It's entirely possible most metal detectors won't pick
it up.

Anecdote: I went to traffic court years ago, and after exiting the courthouse
stuck my hand in my pocket and realized I had forgotten to remove a handful of
.22 LR cartridges. They did not activate the detector.

~~~
C1D
They did add a piece of steel to the build but you can build it with out
adding in the metal. They added that to the instructions so it could be
detectable and legal but it was obvious that any one could just not add in the
metal.

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jgoewert
I can understand the worry about 3d printed weapons, but I don't see much of a
difference between this an a zipgun besides that a common zipgun uses a metal
tube for a barrel so it would show up on a metal detector.

I am completely disinterested in any of the fearmongering about this weapon.
There is no way to hold back technology to prevent violence, we just need to
accept that and deal with not being asshats to each other that causes the
violence.

~~~
reader5000
I'm not sure the theory that violence is caused by "people being asshats to
each other" is accepted by anybody other than Wayne LaPierre.

Gun violence is caused, first and foremost, by the presence of a gun. A
sufficient cause? Often yes, given appropriate context.

There are plenty of very successful ways to "hold back" this technology. It's
called law.

Anyway I don't think anybody is worried about this 3d printed deal other than
the press trying to get page views. The scrawny middle class kid who made it
is an uninteresting attention whore, and the gun itself is a massive piece of
shit. As others have pointed out, self-made ballistic weapons have been
possible for years. This doesn't lower the convenience factor.

~~~
freehunter
>Gun violence is caused, first and foremost, by the presence of a gun.

But violence is caused, first and foremost, by people being asshats to each
other. A gun is just a tool a violent person may use to be violent. In the
absence of a gun, they may use a knife, a baseball bat, a crowbar, a fist, a
pencil, a screwdriver, a laptop, a bucket full of sardines, etc.

~~~
johnchristopher
> But violence is caused, first and foremost, by people being asshats to each
> other.

No. Violence is caused, first and foremost, by people being violent. Give them
means or tools to be more violent and they'll use them. Thus guns existence
are a factor in the violence scale.

Guns aren't tools like the other ones just like the nuclear bomb isn't like
any V2.

Moreover many quiet people who aren't asshats have been the victims of
asshats, and sometimes only because they precisely aren't asshats.

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ck2
I am not sure why we care about people making plastic guns when they can make
full-auto AK47s that are not traceable in the slightest.

[http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/05/ak-47-semi-
autom...](http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/05/ak-47-semi-automatic-
rifle-building-party)

~~~
waffle_ss
The guy in the article didn't build a full-auto AK-47, although he did commit
a couple felonies along the way[1]. First, he mounted the magazine lock too
too far back, which allows the magazine to be detached without the use of a
tool - a felony in California on a semi-auto rifle with a pistol grip.
Secondly, he says

    
    
        Back in my garage I use a grinding wheel to cut the receiver in half and the other components into pieces. I put the scraps back in the cardboard box the kit came in and leave it for the garbage truck.
    

This is an improper demill. To demill a receiver you must cut it into three
pieces. Therefore, when he left the receiver out for the garbage truck he
effectively transferred his rifle to the garbage truck without going through
an FFL, which is another felony.

Finally, the process for actually obtaining or building a fully automatic
rifle (assuming it's not outlawed by your state) is arduous and expensive. The
short answer is that you have to go through extensive background checks by the
FBI and BATFE in order to get a $200 NFA tax stamp, which takes months to be
approved for. You also have to get a signature from your local sheriff, who
can just decide he/she doesn't want you to have one if they wish
(alternatively, you can go to a lawyer to set up a special trust to assign NFA
devices to). Finally, the actual cost for a select-fire AK receiver, of which
there are limited supply as they have to have been registered with the ATF
before May 19, 1986 (and there are no more being manufactured for civilian
use), is between $15-20K (here's a current gunbroker auction[2] for
reference). For a longer description of this whole process see:
[http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MediaPages/ArticleDetail.aspx...](http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MediaPages/ArticleDetail.aspx?mediaid=159)

[1]: <http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=767020>

[2]:
[http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=34324298...](http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=343242987)

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Sambdala

      "Police believe that despite this, the files are still circulating."
    

The quality of journalism is pretty awful these days.

I can't believe someone would feel qualified to write an article, especially
one that came out today, without explicitly knowing that, yes, the files are
most assuredly still "circulating" via torrents.

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jevinskie

      "This is now becoming a problem the world over," Scipione said.
    

According to whom? The police forces that are trying to drum up FUD about
hobby-manufactured firearms?

~~~
zackzackzack
Part of the social contract in most societies is that the police are the only
members of society who can use enough force to kill or injure anyone
critically. The governments of these societies create laws to ensure that it
is only special well regulated instances when an ordinary citizen can use
deadly force (hunting of lower animals and self defense being two examples in
the United States). Anywhere these guns can be manufactured successfully
thwarts the old laws and contracts.

This means that it will be a "Problem", but no one can say for who. The big
gun manufactures are going to be pissed and are already probably already
preparing legislation to bitch slap any one who tries to produce these guns.
The liberator people are working on making the guns not explode and hurt
anyone. The police are scrambling to figure out how to reclaim their sole
ownership of force. The people are waiting to see what happens.

~~~
epochwolf
This isn't part of the social contract in parts of the US. Guns are pretty
common in rural areas and I've see people open carry in urban areas around
Seattle.

~~~
a-priori
He is referring to the principle of the state's monopoly on violence. It's
necessary for some violence to exist to maintain internal and external
security (police and the military, respectively). The more effective the
state, the theory goes, the better able it is to maintain control over the use
of violence in its territory.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence>

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nsxwolf
They didn't say if they used the acetone vapor process to harden the barrel or
the heating process during printing overall to increase the strength. Defense
Distributed did this and the .380 test did not explode.

It would work in the Australian police's favor to make the gun look as
dangerous to the user as possible.

I'd still like to know how dangerous the explosion is. It's plastic, so I'm
imagining it fracturing and releasing all the pressure quickly.

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C1D
This is very scared as 3D printers are becoming cheaper soon any one could
print out a gun with litte effort. As people said, you can create your own
guns but whats different is this takes little work which any one could do.
This could be a world problem as soon as 3D printers become mainstream,
especially in countries with tight gun regulation.

~~~
colinshark
It's easier and cheaper to make a shotgun with 2 pipes, an end cap, and a
screw. I'm not exaggerating the simplicity.

[http://www.issafrica.org/armsnetafrica/sites/default/files/2...](http://www.issafrica.org/armsnetafrica/sites/default/files/27_%20%20%20w-w-
Pipe-gun-11_0.jpg)

Guns are simple.

Guns are 17th century technology.

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marshray
Is it possible to make a worse gun?

I.e., a higher ratio of danger-to-shooter to danger-to-target.

~~~
chiph
Of course - if you build a zip gun and use a barrel that isn't seamless (it
was bent & welded into it's tube shape) you'll have a bad time. There's also
guns like the Lorcin -- it's made from pot metal and is as dangerous to the
wielder as it is to the target. There's no point in buying more than one box
of ammo for it...

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clarkevans
Funny, it looks just like a squirt gun. That can't be good.

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ap2002
Barbra Streisand effect in 3.. 2.. 1..

