
My experience with the CARES Act - MLEnthusiast
https://techcrunch.com/2020/04/24/my-experience-with-the-cares-act-was-frustrating-confusing-and-unfair/
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ta1234567890
I personally also had a very frustrating experience with the CARES act,
specifically PPP loans. Applied as soon as they came out, directly with the
SBA first, then with 3 different banks. Still waiting :(

However, at the end of the day, businesses are not what's essential, people
are.

And that's why it's so infuriating that the government has acted pretty much
exactly on the opposite view. It has prioritized saving huge businesses and
propping up the public markets (stock/bonds/futures/etc).

In my opinion, it would have been a lot more effective to give money directly
to people, then let them figure out where and how they need to spend it to get
through the crisis. Businesses would then adapt accordingly to survive, or
fail if they couldn't. But at least then most people would be ok.

Now inequality is going to be worse than ever. People that already had a lot
of money got saved and now they can keep making loads of money, while the
people that really needed saving, pretty much got abandoned instead.

~~~
cheez
The reason they prop up markets is there is some belief that the Great
Depression was made worse by a market crash.

~~~
lisper
The Great Depression was greatly exacerbated by runs on the banks which were
in turn exacerbated by the Fed not providing adequate liquidity. The stock
market crash was an ancillary effect of the lack of liquidity: everyone needed
cash and no one had any. The crash in and of itself had almost no direct
impact on the depth and severity of the depression. It was just a reflection
of the sudden scarcity of money. Propping up the markets in response to an
economic crisis is cargo cult economics, kind of like trying to treat a fever
by putting the thermometer in the refrigerator instead of under your tongue.

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icelancer
Government just released notification with no clear guidelines that companies
who took money but didn't need it (language is heavily biased against VC-
backed startups) will need to repay by May 6th for forgiveness, or be
investigated and potentially fined/penalized for taking money they didn't
need.

This is a good idea in theory but of course the language is hopelessly vague
and there are no guidelines, because that would mean we could hold the
government accountable. What does "take money you didn't need" mean? My
business (non-VC backed, just an SMB) took PPP funds so we could continue to
employ our workstaff (the intent of the program), but we were not facing
immediate bankruptcy. Is that OK?

Classic regulatory frameworks that don't define anything.

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mehrdadn
Not a lawyer but "need this money" seems reasonable to interpret as "you could
not pay your employees if you didn't get this money". Which suggests VC-backed
startups probably shouldn't have taken it and should return it.

~~~
icelancer
My company technically could have paid our employees if we didn't take the
money, but we'd have to cancel 90% of our R&D projects, slash operations, etc
etc. So that still doesn't really mean anything, unless the intent was "if you
literally could not make payroll after liquidating equipment / canceling all
operational expenses," which I hope was not the case.

~~~
mehrdadn
I hope you're fine in that case... I'd assume they meant without slashing
existing work. But yeah I agree, clarity would've been nice :\

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xyst
Individuals and small business have both been shafted.

There's a provision in the CARES Act which allows employers of any size to
give a one time donation to employees towards their student loans in exchange
for decreased tax liability. I am currently talking with my employer, but thus
far they do not want to participate in this program.

They initially cited the company does not apply for the program due to their
company size, but I literally handed them the sections of the bill and it's
eligibility criteria which states otherwise. Haven't received a response since
last week, but I suspect it's going to fall to deaf ears.

~~~
icelancer
Can you upload / send me those pages and any research you did on it? I'd like
to see if I can offer it to my employees. I've never heard of giving money to
employees for student loans that also reduces the employer's tax burden.

EDIT: Everything I can find just says the student loan payments from employers
are now _tax-free for the employee_. I would love to know if there are other
areas of the bill that give the business tax deductions / tax credits for
paying employees' student loans down, because I'll do that in a heartbeat.

Example: [https://www.benefitnews.com/news/what-the-cares-act-means-
fo...](https://www.benefitnews.com/news/what-the-cares-act-means-for-student-
loan-benefits)

~~~
xyst
SEC. 2301. EMPLOYEE RETENTION CREDIT FOR EMPLOYERS SUBJECT TO CLOSURE DUE TO
COVID–19.

see "(2) eligible employers" section"

[https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-
bill/748/...](https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-
bill/748/text#H6EC2102D2A4E4392B16B6F05A7D9B433)

good luck

~~~
gamblor956
Section 2301 is unrelated to section 2106, which provides the employer paid
tuition benefit.

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FridgeSeal
Off topic:

What persuades front-end developers to make their site capture backwards
navigation. No TechCrunch, when I press back I should go to the previous page,
not yours again.

~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
> What persuades front-end developers

Probably their managers

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throw_m239339
The bill was rushed and people who needed it the least ended up profiting more
than people who needed it the most and weren't successful in applying. The
fault is on the people who designed that bill. The whole "please give back the
money" political posturing, is just that, political posturing.

The whole small business == 500 employees PER location is a farce for
instance.

~~~
jacobolus
> _small business == 500 employees per location is a farce_

This particular definition was inserted by the Senate Committee on Small
Business and Entrepreneurship, led by Marco Rubio (FL). You can also blame the
other GOP Senators on that committee: Risch (ID), Paul (KY), Scott (SC), Ernst
(IA), Inhofe (OK), Young (IN), Kennedy (LA), Romney (UT), Hawley (MO).

~~~
dantheman
The bill was passed, everyone that voted for it is responsible.

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raz32dust
This is reductionist. There is a crowd dynamic here. Something needed to be
done quickly. A minority of senators cannot keep waiting until they get what
they want. Republicans would then blame the democrats for stalling the bill.
GOP has become either stupid or plain evil. I have no doubt any more after
events of the last one year.

~~~
dantheman
What needed to be done? Backstopping unemployment? Making sure there is some
funding for the medical establishment?

This was the 3rd bailout bill, of many? They had time for 4 hours of debate,
but then went for a voice vote so they wouldn't be on the record.

This 2T bailout is going to go down in history as one of the most reckless
things / or outright transfer of wealth that has ever occurred. It was bad
legislation.

Lastly it was dishonest -- calling a grant with conditions a loan is just a
lie. People pay back loans, these will never be paid back.

~~~
raz32dust
My point is, you are basically saying, screw them all. That they are all liars
and putting them in one big bucket. I am saying that a Dem majority would have
gotten us a bill that was closer to what you want here compared to what he
have today. And in this case, closer is better.

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edoceo
Did anyone else here apply for EDIL from SBA? I did on March 30. I've heard
nothing. Anyone wanna compare application numbers? I'm 3600058### (masked last
three)

~~~
servercobra
I did. 3600001xxx (first 2000 applicants, I believe), basically as soon as it
opened up. I've had a hard credit check from the SBA and an email from them on
the 4/13 letting me know it would only be a $1k/employee advance, nothing
else. So I somewhat doubt their line about handling it first-come first-serve.
I only have one employee.

~~~
kxyvr
I applied as well and have yet to receive funds. I also received the email
about the $1k/employee change and that was last that I've heard from the SBA.
As such, it sounds like many of us are in the same boat.

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protomyth
I actually have a lot of pity for the auditors who are going to be going over
the books for this years. Some of the direction to organizations has been
vague and a bit odd (e.g. use existing money and we will send a check to
refill those funds). This is another case of the government moving faster than
proper rule making can handle.

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chrisgd
My wife is helping our sons non-profit preschool apply. Bank of America, where
they bank, said they were prioritizing those who had loans outstanding with
BofA first.

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jefflombardjr
My experience with crony capitalism was frustrating, confusing and unfair

There, I fixed the title for you.

~~~
CamperBob2
I don't see how this is "capitalism" in any sense of the word, crony or
otherwise... but yes, your point stands.

Any one who expects a square deal from the present administration is either
naive, or in on the grift.

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howmayiannoyyou
Congress CamperBob... it was the Senate the messed up the cares legislation.

~~~
CamperBob2
(Shrug) McConnell and McCarthy don't make a distinction, and neither do I. In
the absence of checks and balances, they are all complicit.

Trump didn't have to sign it, did he? The bucks stops where, again?

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Arubis
This is a deliciously ironic place for a paywall.

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howmayiannoyyou
Applied for EIDL 3/18 w/ application number 20001.... was in the first group.

Applied again, twice, as two successive systems had to be deployed after the
first crashed.

I've received $15,000 as an advance. The EIDL loan is critical to our
survival, but my guess is the program will be void of funds soon, and well
before I see any money.

I did get PPP funds. This will keep my people on the payroll another two
months though its my sense - and I want to be wrong - that the economic crisis
will continue for much longer.

Congress (namely Sen. Rubio who managed the Cares legislation) was a Miami
lawyer for an influential law firm there who soon after starting practice
entered politics having been groomed for the role (as I understand it). He has
next to zero business experience.

The administration had the right priorities, but Congress is incompetent. The
administration will get all the blame. Nobody will hold Congress accountable,
and even fewer will hold China accountable.

The whole chain of responsibility is hopelessly broken.

~~~
crooked-v
> and even fewer will hold China accountable

Accountable for what?

~~~
jmknoll
Refusing to regulate a trade in live, rare, and endangered wildlife which has
devastated ecosystems worldwide and resulted in multiple global epidemics over
the past 30 years?

