
Vastrm (YC S12) Promises The Perfect Fitting Polo - aresant
http://techcrunch.com/2012/08/09/y-combinators-vastrm-promises-the-perfect-fitting-polo/
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pragmatic
Oh man...if this works, it will be fantastic.

I'm 6'5" 220+ lbs. If I can't find a tall size, I have to get a XXL which is
made for chubby guys, not tall thin (well not as thin as I used to be :-) )
men.

A good fitting shirt is the hardest thing to find. Pants already come in a
variety of sizes (length + waist) so it's not as big of an issue.

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jontang
We can totally help you! ping me and we'll get you set up with a polo that
fits you perfect!

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zio99
You should do a how-to measure yourself video like these guys: _Bombay shirt
company_ <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88bD0Udwswk>

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jontang
love it. great video. yes, we will create one of these for guidance.

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hiddenstage
This is a really cool idea. I could see some disruption in the online shopping
industry via their Zappos-like model.

I don't feel inclined to buy a polo, however. I care about comfort, brand, and
fit - in that order. I have never had a problem with one of the default sizes
in practically every brand. Perhaps there is a bigger market for fitted polos
though; I'm sure the Vastrm guys know more than I do!

Nearly every girl I know shops for clothes over the internet and I also assume
they would be more inclined to want a perfect fit - but I'm sure women's
clothing is more logistically difficult to create. Hopefully they work on
adding women's clothing, anything, before expanding their men's collection.

I'll be interested to see how this goes.

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aero142
I love the idea. As a tall slender person, I'm usually in between sizes and
things are never right. For this along with every other personal item, I hope
manufacturing on demand gives us all a return to personal customization.

One thing keeps bugging me though. Home page, slide one, white polo. I don't
think that shirt fits right. It looks like it's too narrow either across the
chest or in the shoulders and that is causing it to pull up on the buttons in
the center and creasing the front of the shirt and the bottom of the buttons.
Maybe I'm just being a know it all programmer with no fashion sense, but I
don't think I want my polos to fit like that.

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jontang
Yeah, I hear ya on that photo. If it is any consolation that photo was taken
before we started our perfect fit program! And that model was not fitted with
our home try-program. Needs to be replaced, agree!

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zio99
Jon, you guys solved a problem of mine, so I can relate. My trouble with ill-
fitting shirts is what led me to prototype swagger:
<http://brownieinmotion.ca/swagger/api/beta/> an apparel recommendation engine
that filtered by fit, size, budget, etc but only for brands in your
neighbourhood.

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jontang
great clean design. will be interested to see where you take it next!

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jcampbell1
Am I missing something? $70-$90 for a polo shirt with no brand identity, from
a website I can't pronounce. Can someone explain the appeal here? I see that
the "perfect fit" is tag line, but polos are stretchy so the fit isn't a huge
concern for most people.

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pg
Many people willing to pay that much for a polo shirt consider lack of
conspicuous brand to be a feature.

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Evbn
But more people pay extra for conspicuous branding, not to mention the
marketing benefits. Hence the luxury fashion industry.

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koji
This is definitely a personal preference issue. I, for one, hate logos and
branding on my clothing. I won't pay for clothing that advertises itself. I
have met other people who are the exact opposite and care greatly about the
branding and image. In the end, there's probably enough room in the market for
clothing companies to go either way. I'm personally thankful for not having
branding forced on me.

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nchlswu
I'd love to tackle a problem like this.

One thing I like is the approach compared to someone like an Indochino who
gets you to take your measurements and then their tailors take liberties with
the measurements you provide (accounting for your lack of skill) leading to
unpredictable results.

I'm curious who the target for this is, specifically. I personally know that
fit is everything, but I'm not sure if most (male) style conscious consumers
will gravitate to such a product, especially at this stages. I struggle to
tell if this is targetted at an "every man," or those who just can't find
anything that fit (those who are in odd proportions of the spectrum)

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jontang
Great comment!! Our supply chain partner did a study where they collected over
150,000 body scans. They then analyzed the data for any consistency in sizing.
They found that each body scan was like a thumb print! This is the reason why
it is difficult for brands and apparel manufacturers to make stuff that fits
properly - because we are all unique. And the efficiencies of mass production
that creates one size for many unfortunately fail when trying to address this
issue. Read: one size does not fit all. And for polo shirts and other basic
wear, mass produced garments was the only option. We think that all folks
could eventually use this service. Time will tell...

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philip1209
Intriguing. I only purchase dress shirts on Indochino now. By the time I buy a
premade shirt then have it tailored, Indochino is cheaper. My main complaint
is that I have never had a shirt arrive on time.

Vastrm is intriguing, but prices do not seem to compelling. They seem right
inline with custom dress shirts. Plus, with Polos I feel like there is more
room for error, e.g. with stretch fabrics that hide imperfect sizes,
unbuttoned collars that hide imperfect collar sizes, fairly limp collars that
do not show details

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jontang
Great point! We are working on getting our prices down. But we are still less
expensive than off the shelf Lacoste or Ralph Lauren Polo (which range from
$95 - $145 retail). And we believe our quality is higher. Plus, we are custom.
I like your second point as well. With dress shirts, precision is extremely
important to get the right fit, especially in today's style trends towards
tighter fitting clothes. That is why so many measurement points are needed
when getting custom fitted. With polo's and other casual wear, because of the
way the garment naturally drapes, we don't need to collect the 12 or more
measurements needed to get an ideal fit. If we can hone in on your general
body type and make adjustments to bottom length, sleeve length and body width.
We can get darn near close to the perfect fit. Make sense?

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philip1209
Yes. I don't know what your target demographic is, but your fabrics seem to
target a younger, less stylistically-aware group that doesn't align with your
price points and level of detail.

For instance, half of your fabrics are horizontally-striped, which I would
consider both an immature look and stylistically unsound (with vertical
stripes considered 'slimming'). I associate Lacoste with consumers who try to
compensate for style sense with money - like the 'Rock and Republic' of polos.
The Lacoste shirts cost $90 apiece, but even their "!" slim-fit line still are
cut like squares. I don't think this is your crowd who cares about fit.

Consumers in the $100-200 polo range are used to higher quality items rather
than striped/branded items - e.g. the Ralph Lauren Black line is in that
range, and the whole line focuses on Italian cuts and fabrics with no visible
branding.

If I were in your position, I would offer less fabrics and of higher quality
with marketing to target more of the Tom Ford-wannabes. Something along the
lines of "Fit Frames Quality." You could offer almost a luxury fabric menu in
basic colors that really tells a story of the piece of cloth, helping people
to become more viscerally attached with what they wear. With a current slogan
of "Be Unique," I think you are skirting the fact that people willing to go
through the rigmarole of customization, test shirts, then the custom
manufacturing process are pursuing a display of flawlessness. The advertising
fails to capture this desire for perfection - you are selling choice, when I
think that you need to highlight the intersection of fit and quality.

Furthermore, monogramming is a must-have feature.

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jontang
Great points! Would love to discuss with you more offline.

We source some of the highest quality cotton available. We use essentially the
same quality that you might see on a Cuchinelli, Zegna or Kiton polo - which
retail for $250 - $400 at Niemans or boutiques. We sell our polos, private
label into some high end boutiques for $175 and $195 (retail)- using the same
fabric we offer online. I agree, we need to do a much better job at marketing
and branding though. And I really liked your comments about creating a
visceral attachment to the garments. Stay tuned for that and please stay in
touch with us! Are you in marketing?

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philip1209
Shoot me an email - I am interested in talking more. Mail@philipithomas.com.
I'm an engineering and physics student who, among other ventures, owns a
marketing automation company and who appreciates clothing.

On a bit of side note, I'm excited to be meeting Daymond John from Fubu and
Shark Tank tomorrow!

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jontang
Ahh... Marketing Automation! I founded a Sales Automation (CRM) company prior
to this, Salesnet. We were acquired by RNOW (now ORCL). I also ran a small
marketing automation co for a year. Lots to chat about. Good luck with
Daymond. We are linked on linkedin but have never met him.

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pattern
There's no way to "save" the shirt I just created currently - right? Trying to
"Add to my collection" brings up a form that is non-functional. I entered my
email on the home page and hoped I might have a login waiting for me, but
alas, just a note saying I may get one in the future! I took a screenshot for
now, should be good enough.

Are you guys currently hiring a developer to do the HTML5 version of the site?
:)

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jontang
Sorry for that @pattern! Obviously to all, our site has been experiencing
issues because of the high traffic. We made some Apache config changes and can
now support higher traffic levels. If you try logging in again, you can save
to MY COLLECTION. Really sorry about that!!! Ping me later and I can throw you
some store credit for your frustration!

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BadassFractal
Perfectly fitting clothes is a pretty hard problem to solve without human
intervention (a tailor). Sites like BlankLabel do a decent job at getting you
a dress shirt that will fit you alright, but it's not quite there yet. The
shipping times are quite long, and the cost is very high unless you go for the
rather disappointing fabrics.

Affordable, rapidly produced and perfectly fitting clothes would be a dream.

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jontang
This is precisely what we are striving for. Not an easy task. Our fitting
process will require no measuring tape and no human intervention. From size
optimization to recommending adjustments for perfect fit, we hope that the
whole process is frictionless and hassle free. We will work on pricing and
speed to delivery in the meantime!

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papercruncher
Could you please explain how it would possibly not require a measuring tape?
Site is down right now, so I can't try it

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jontang
We will ask you a few simple questions to optimize a size selection. From
there we will send you 2 - 3 of our unique fit types to try on at home. In
most cases, one of those 3 sizes will fit almost perfect. Then we will allow
you to adjust +/- inches to sleeve length, bottom hem or width of shirt. More
if necessary, but we have found these 3 minor adjustment points make a
significant difference in finding just the right fit.

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jonah
I just ordered some custom made shirts for my brother's wedding. I'll know how
they are next week.

For things like that they're great too - we needed an obscure combination of
color and features which surprisingly didn't exist ready-made. (Ivory, French
Cuffs, Slim.)

You might find a side-market for groups. e.g. the MSL/Curiosity team's EDL
event polos.

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jontang
Thanks jonah! Definitely will look into it! We have sponsored member guest
tournaments for golf where each team required a slightly different appearance
but wanted an overall theme. We have also custom designed whole collection of
shirts for retailers so they could carry a product that one could not get on
main st.

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pwf
This seems like something you could throw a Kinect at. Get a few images at the
right angles, build a crude 3D model, and measure that in software instead of
wasting resources shipping shirts around. It wouldn't account for preference,
but surely it's as accurate as someone guessing at their own adjustments.

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jontang
Thanks pwf, we have been considering this avenue. Especially to help with the
first step of size selection optimization, but through a variety of tests and
interviews we conducted, there was something about people actually touching
fabric and trying on the garments that could not be replaced with digital
images and 3D modeling. But, we will certainly be giving more thought and
research into this area!

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mirsadm
I remember watching Shark Tank a while ago and one of the pitches was perfect
fitting jeans. The idea seems quite similar (but for jeans). The investors
didn't really think it was viable due to the turn-around time (if I remember
correctly).

Edit: It was actually Dragons Den (Season 2 Ep 6 I think)

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jontang
I will have to check that episode out. We are certainly working on turn around
time. Hopefully we can cut by 30% in the near future. We will also likely sell
some mass produced designs which would allow us to ship immediately. But if
our customers want adjustments to get perfectly fit, that still takes some
time.

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rdl
This looks like it could be really useful, although the pricing is a lot worse
than my current "buy 20x Lands End polos when they go on sale" strategy.

For dress shirts/buttondown or suits/pants, I haven't found any of the online
vendors to be as good as W W Chan in HK or Shanghai.

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jontang
Yes, lands end does offer some pretty affordable gear. If it fits, feels
comfortable and lasts, its a good way to go!

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jenntoda
Fit revolution - please please please would you consider doing perfect fit
shoes next? :)

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philip1209
That could be fun - "We'll send you two molds - please step in each one, then
we'll build a shoe around it"

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sparky
"You can go on Vastrm’s site and take a short quiz, entering height, weight,
body type and _waste size_.."

What does _that_ have to do with anything?

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aaronblohowiak
It very much influences the fit of your shirt.

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StavrosK
The fit of my shit, maybe.

Because it doesn't say "waist", see.

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jontang
Good catch... We certainly would not want to know about anyone's "waste" size!

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zio99
very cool! where I envision them to be next is holding up a CD to your webcam,
and taking your body measurements in proportion to the disk you're holding up,
and customize shirts and suits from there. thanks for sharing!

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danielpal
I'd love to buy, but this flash site is just not working.

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jontang
working on it.... sorry guys :/

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ludicast
Can logos be added via dst files?

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jontang
Yep. We do embroidery. Let me know what you may need. We also can create the
DSTs if you do not have them on hand.

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ludicast
Awesome. I'll contact you guys. Also, if I have a light and dark version of
the logo, would you guys be able to give input as to which one combines better
with which color shirt?

I have the fashion sense of a homeless man..

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jontang
Yes, we could recommend some color selections for you. email me at
jtang@vastrm.com

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sbierwagen
And... their site is being crushed by the traffic.

EDIT: Finally loaded, and the site is a giant SWF file? Seriously?

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hassy
Perhaps they have more interesting problems to solve than "how do we build our
UI in HTML5"?

Getting a shirt that will fit well ranks much higher in most people's
priorities than using only HTML-based webapps.

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zacharyb
I have an idea, let's make the entire site using Flash, it will be super
awesome!

cache:vastrm.com = "get adobe flash player"...

Fail.

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jontang
Yeah... we know... totally our bad. We were focused on scaling supply chain,
mfr and coming up with great product. Unfortunately, made the rookie mistake
of building in flash. That will change for sure. Sooner the better...

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SoftwareMaven
I would put that _VERY_ low on your priority list (with the possible exception
of the iPad impact). Don't let techno-elites drive you the wrong direction.

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pbreit
I would put it high on the list. Building this thing in Flash in 2012 is just
dumb. We saw how the launch went. As noted, their missing out on the tablet
users. Building in HTML5 is not much harder (might even be easier). Flash is
dead-end.

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jontang
Agree flash is a dead end! And we will be migrating. However, we discovered
the performance issues today were not caused by our flash app but due to
config settings on our Apache servers. Again, apologies for the poor
experience...

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jonah
First thing the name brought to mind was something to do with Vasectomies...
:(

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jontang
ouch... yes, something to consider...

