
Mathematicians mapped “Game of Thrones” relationship to find the main character - CarolineW
http://qz.com/650796/mathematicians-mapped-out-every-game-of-thrones-relationship-to-find-the-main-character/
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talmand
This is only a popularity contest among the known characters and their known
interactions. For instance, Littlefinger started out seemingly as a small
player but then we learn later he was actually a rather significant player in
almost all aspects of what has been happening so far. Granted his obvious
interactions are with rather important people but by appearances the number of
interactions seem low while actually being quite large.

As for Tyrion; he has a high position in life, hangs out with a large number
of similar characters, and even crosses an ocean to meet up with more of that
group that the others have not met yet. Regardless, I would say he's not so
significant to what's going on simply because most of the others don't listen
to a thing he says, even though he's right most of the time, so he doesn't
have as much impact on events as he should. Just because he's present at
significant events doesn't make him significant. Although, I admit those
reasons are why I find him one of the more interesting characters.

Seems fun but I don't see how it can answer the question without it just being
about today's favorite. It cannot be fully answered until the end.

~~~
repsilat
> _[Tyrion is] not so significant_

He was essentially responsible for the successful defense of King's Landing at
the Battle of the Blackwater. If he hadn't been there, Stannis would be on the
Iron Throne -- I'd call that high-impact.

I agree that Littlefinger's impact is under-represented by this measure,
though. And obviously Arya has had no impact on anything important at all ti
date...

~~~
talmand
Defense of King's Landing? You mean the event that everyone immediately
dismissed and took credit away from him? How many characters even recall it
that way? It was significant at that moment, but dwindled away to next to
nothing almost immediately. Other than that one thing, Tyrion has mostly gone
along for the ride, which fits his character.

As for Stannis being on the Iron Throne, it would makes some things different
but it would not make a huge difference in the overall storyline so far as to
what's coming. We wouldn't have gotten all the fun stuff with Tyrion's family
true, but most of everything else likely would have continued on the same.
Just because Stannis would have taken the throne wouldn't mean everything else
would suddenly stop or change.

~~~
SolarNet
But remember what they are saying they are trying to find here is the main
character, not the main character in the universe. You actually argue against
your own point. You say this is a popularity contest, and then say no one in
universe would remember it that way. But if his impact, and hence relationship
to the actual story, is what this measures.

~~~
talmand
But I am talking about the story, not the universe. There is no main character
to a universe.

But I'm not understanding how I'm arguing against my own point, could you
elaborate?

I'm saying that the chart is an indication of a popularity contest as defined
by the rules of the chart. But the rules of the chart does not necessarily
follow the rules defined by the story.

As for the events that I'm saying the characters don't recall the same as it
happened, that's my point that the character did not have that much impact to
the overall story because their involvement is forgotten or has been deemed
unimportant by the other characters. Therefore, Tyrion's impact has been
negligible to the story overall. For the most part, almost all the characters
have had very little impact to the story overall; which I find really
interesting. They have significant moments that's a huge impact to the
characters individually, but may not have much significance to the story as a
whole.

So far I would say that Littlefinger is the closest to a main character we
have with this type of thing in mind. Simply because he has influenced almost
everything that has happened so far in some way.

Almost all the deaths in the story have had an effect on readers simply
because almost all the characters have the same weight (or whatever term) as
any other despite their position in the perceived power structure. The story
taught us very early that no one is safe, therefore there is no easy choice to
be made as to who the hero or villain of the story is. Because so far neither
really exists. This is one of the many reasons I find this story so
interesting, it doesn't read as your typical hero-vs-villain fantasy story
where you can guess the outcome before the end of the second act.

------
skywhopper
The graph is interesting. But maybe Game of Thrones doesn't _have_ a "main"
character. One of the things fans love about the books is that they subvert
genre expectations at every turn. Given how things are going, in fact, I won't
be surprised if the next literary convention GRRM eschews is "conclusion".

~~~
qrendel
I think this is one way to look at it, at least for the books. For the TV
show, over all the seasons it seems like three main characters have emerged
(based on longevity, screentime, and plot importance): Daenerys, Tyrion, and
Jon Snow. You could perhaps argue Cersei as well - iirc she has more POV
chapters and page-time in the books than any other character.

An alternative view is that the main character(s) change from book to book and
season to season. Ned was probably the main character in the first book &
season one, Robb replaced him in book/season two, with similar evolutions for
other "temporary-mains." Though really the first explanation seems better: a
"main character" just doesn't fit the structure of ASOIAF very well.

~~~
FnuGk
Robb was never a POV character

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qrendel
Didn't actually say that he was, though it may be the TV show has changed my
memory of his place in the second and third books. After a few years it gets
hard to keep track of exactly what happened in a ~5000 page series.

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jsmith0295
_spoiler alert_ I wouldn't say this necessarily points to the "main"
character, as its just one measure of a character's significance. Littlefinger
(Petyr on this diagram) is rather small and on the edge - but he's ultimately
responsible for a huge amount of what goes on.

~~~
kyriakos
you are right but the aim is to find who the writers consider the "main"
character and not who had the most impact on the GoT universe. If we take it
in that sense the white walkers are probably the most significant.

~~~
talmand
I would say there is no single main character to the story.

~~~
kyriakos
that's also the most likely reason the story (book or TV) is so popular. the
fact that there is no distinct good or evil, no main character, no main
villain etc. everyone is grey, everyone can die etc

~~~
possibility
There are obviously evil characters, obviously good characters, and ambiguous
characters. Mostly ambiguous.

------
jmiserez
> _Whenever two characters appeared within 15 words of one another, a link (or
> “edge”) was added between them. The links are weighted based on how often
> the two characters appeared in close proximity._

The interesting part here is that the algorithm needs no upfront understanding
about the relationships nor about the type of interactions between characters.
You can construct the graph from just looking at the locations of the words
associated with each character.

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elcapitan
Can they map postmodern literature to find the plot?

~~~
huac
[http://www.critical-theory.com/this-is-what-happens-when-
you...](http://www.critical-theory.com/this-is-what-happens-when-you-map-a-
deleuze-and-guattari-book/)

------
hornbaker
This would be interesting to run on the HN community, or any popular forum.

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ludicast
Reminds me of Six Degrees of Harry Lewis[0], where Mark Zuckerberg set up a
graph to find out the most popular person in Harvard, via cross-referencing
articles in the crimson. That project may or may not have been the origin of
Facebook.

0 - [http://bostinno.streetwise.co/all-series/the-harvard-
profess...](http://bostinno.streetwise.co/all-series/the-harvard-professor-
who-helped-make-facebook-possible/)

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wmil
This graph only covers the third book, A Storm of Swords.

I'm surprised that they haven't gone back and generated a graph for all of the
released books yet.

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samfisher83
GRRM said Tyrion is his favorite character so not that surprising.

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moron4hire
Is it so hard to imagine that a popular series could represent a non-
traditional narrative structure in which there is no, one, main character?

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jccc
"In spite of his small size, Tyrion is mathematically the most important
character in Game of Thrones."

... followed by Jon Snow.

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Mithaldu
I want to see this animated.

~~~
marxidad
With the 3D clockwork graphics and the musical theme score!

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thom
The dragon has three heads, so we're told. Tyrion, Jon, Daenerys?

~~~
neipfjin239
This is a popular fan theory (Jon's parentage is very ambiguous, and it can be
argued that Tyrion's parentage is not completely clear, leading to speculation
that they both have Targaryen blood).

~~~
soylentcola
Yep. That's the general theory so popular and makes enough sense that in a
way, I'll be both pleased (for picking up on it) and disappointed (for lack of
surprise) if it really turns out that way.

At the same time, it would be sort of lame if GRRM decided "well, everyone
figured out R+L=J and the three headed dragon and all so I guess I better
change some things around".

Then I just get a little bit bummed out (and guilty for feeling entitled) that
the next book probably won't be out for a while still.

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Overtonwindow
tl;dr for those with short attention spans like me: Tyrion, Jon, and Sansa are
identified as the central characters.

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sickbeard
Mathematicians take the fun out of everything and turn it into a graph

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kyriakos
you need a mathematician to come up with that diagram?

~~~
thearn4
Graph centrality measures are a pretty interesting and ongoing topic of
research in mathematics, yes. I'm familiar with methods based on eigenspectra
of the matrix exponential (and some relevance to Krylov subspace methods), but
that's really it.

~~~
amelius
But I guess there will be some arbitrariness involved anyway, even when
mathematicians look at the problem. E.g. why would one measure be better than
another?

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kchoudhu
Shocker: POV characters are probably main characters.

~~~
wheat7420
Readers of the books know that is definitely not the case.

For instance Areo Hotah is a repeated point of view character who is merely
there to provide prospective on the court of Dorne as a silent body guard.
Fans of the series call him "the camera who rides."

On the other hand GRRM has said characters like Littlefinger and Varys will
never have chapters because their plans are too revealing of the end of the
book. They are too central to be PoV characters.

~~~
FnuGk
His chapters is called "The captain of guards" and not "Areo" as is the way
chapters of the main POV characters is named.

~~~
wheat7420
Numerous characters both major and minor get chapter names like that. Asha
gets a chapter where she's "the sacrifice", Victarion gets a chapter where
he's "the iron suitor" and chapters that just go by their name as well. Arya
has been "the ugly little girl" in the chapter title. Theon has been "the
ghost of winterfel".

Regardless, he's still a point of view character that isn't central to the
plot.

------
Raphmedia
Or you know... you could count the number of chapters that every character has
and come up with the one that has the highest number of chapters as the main
character?

~~~
bonobo
Or you could just count the number of times their names are mentioned...
Except neither approach really represents character importance accurately. Why
just go the naive route when you can extract more information from your data
by using a more complex approach?

The article actually counters your point exactly:

" _For example, Arya Stark, Sansa’s younger sister, has the third most
chapters with 34, but ranks behind Sansa in terms of network importance._ "

~~~
peeters
> Or you could just count the number of times their names are mentioned

"Hodor"

