
Smarter speed bump using non-Newtonian liquid - chr1
http://www.badennova.es/badennova-en/index.php/gallery/video
======
code_duck
"BIV

baden inteligente de velocidad

This Intelligent Speed Bump (BIV) is based in Non-Newtonian fluids dynamics in
which particles in natural movement as liquid align when receiving an impact,
thus entering into a solid state. This fluid is also biodegradable and
harmless for human beings.This fluid inside the BIV is the solution to
vehicles at sensible speed that will find no obstacle when driving over it.

The other essential element to achieve the BIV is the plastic covering made of
a special material highly resistant to aging, wear, vandalism and unfavorable
weather conditions. Our plastics are planned for recycling purposes so that we
can ensure sustainability by reusing disposed plastics. BIV is a new speed
bump that guarantees effectiveness at exceeding speed regardless vehicles'
type or weight. The speed limitation that we set will be effective for every
user at the road.

Installations is a fast and simple procedure by screwing up the metal plates
onto the pavement in 15 minutes.

This Intelligent Speed Bump is registered and patented worldwide with the aim
of improving road traffic and road safety: \- Reduces the possibility of
traffic accidents and fatigue caused to shock absorbers. \- Reduces pollution,
fuel consumption and noise pollution caused by continuous bumping

Currently BIV is available for indoor activities: Parking lots, Garage and
Covered areas."

~~~
sebleon
Very cool!!

Out of curiosity, why is it only available indoors?

~~~
sparrish
My guess is their nemesis, the snowplow.

~~~
gruez
how do normal speedbumps deal with snowplows?

~~~
CydeWeys
"Raise Plow" road signs near the speed bump.

This would work for non-Newtonian speed bumps as well, though the first time a
plow driver doesn't see the sign, and there's always going to be one who
doesn't see the sign, you end up wiping out the speed bump instead of just
dinging it.

~~~
taneq
Maybe you could have protective ridges at the side of the road which would act
as hard stops for the plough while staying out of the regular path of traffic?

I'd also be concerned about the effect that widely changing temperatures would
have on the viscosity and hence critical speeds. It'd suck to install one in
summer, get used to driving over it at 40km/h, then during the first cold snap
find out it'd turned as hard as rock.

~~~
will_hughes
It's supposed to be like a rock at 40km/h anyway. You're supposed to slow down
to 5-10km/h

~~~
taneq
The point was temperature dependence, not the specific made-up numbers.

~~~
celticninja
The difference though would be minimal at the recommended speeds which is why
it probably is not a factor. If they were designed to keep speeds at 40mph
then it probably would be.

~~~
baldfat
What's the freezing point? Below the freezing point would be far from minimal?

~~~
celticninja
Driving over it at 5 mph when it was frozen solid would probably be minimal.

------
hirsin
A student startup built something similar for potholes, which i think is a
better use of the tech (1). Essentially road repair crews could carry a couple
bags of the fluid and drop the bag into a pothole, where it would confirm to
the shape of the hole while stiffening on impact from the tires.
Unsurprisingly this was invented in Cleveland.

1\. [http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2012-04/bouncy-
thic...](http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2012-04/bouncy-thickening-
water-powder-mix-could-serve-temporary-pothole-patch)

~~~
amenod
> Unsurprisingly this was invented in Cleveland.

For us uninitiated - why? Quality if the roads there?

~~~
blackguardx
Another commentor explained how potholes form, but I'll add that Cleveland
doesn't have a lot of money and tends to defer maintenance.

When I was living there, road signs saying "Steel Plate on Road" were a common
sight. I remember the city fixed a water pipe and instead of re-paving the
street, they just left several giant 4ft x 8ft steel plates with corresponding
sign for over a year.

~~~
phyllostachys
This is also true for the rest of the areas around Lake Erie, western PA, and
probably western NY (I don't have much experience with that area).

I live about an hour south of Erie, PA and the road I travel to and from work
has needed resurfaced after every winter over the last 3 or 4 years.

------
Torkel
Speaking to a founder to a competing company
([https://www.edeva.se/en/](https://www.edeva.se/en/)) I found out that there
has been many attempts at solving the problems of speed bumps:

\- Everybody gets bumped, not only high speed vehicles \- Emergency vehicles
need to slow down \- Bus drivers and others can get back problems from speed
bumps

Most solutions break down because the forces and the wear and tear is so
tremendous. The solution from Edeva seemed clever to me because the swing a
trap door down so the bump comes from the solid ground and not from a moving
part.

I'm curious how this liquid solution handles emergency vehicles and the
wear+tear. A mechanical solution is good but very expensive. A liquid solution
seems like it could be made cheaper.

~~~
ChuckMcM
I've always wondered what it would look like to tie one of those roadside
speed monitoring trailers (they have a sign telling you the speed limit, and
your speed) which were in contact with a 'speed bump' filled with hydraulic
fluid. The faster you go over the limit, the harder and taller the speed bump
:-)

If you did this with a camera system you could avoid penalizing emergency
vehicles.

~~~
KozmoNau7
The main issue is that everything movable or deformable is going to get
absolutely wrecked by vehicles, in short order.

Even old-fashioned speed bumps get severe ridges worn into them by vehicles
that go too fast. They need to be repaired after a year or two. And even if
that doesn't happen, they experience severe forces from wheels, every single
day.

You (and the non-newtonian bump mentioned in the article) suggest basically a
rubber bag filled with fluid. Instead of getting ridges worn into them,
they're going to get punctured and destroyed.

There's a reason the system mentioned in the article is only shown in parking
garages. It only works indoors (because of UV), and it only works at
relatively low speeds, where the forces are lower, and the risk of
undercarriage hits is very small.

I hate speed bumps, but it's extremely hard to find a workable alternative.
Personally, I prefer chicanes.

~~~
ChuckMcM
Fair enough, although if you were using a hydraulic system you could be
raising and lowering a concrete berm with your system which would take the
wear and tear.

In Las Vegas they had very deep 'gullys' on either side of a street to
facilitate flash floodwater and where those 'flood streets' crossed others
there were 'speed ditches' :-) They were very effective as the wear and tear
occurred on the car that was grounding out after going over them too quickly.

Chicanes are ok but people who try to go through them too fast and get stuck
after colliding with one side or the other cause problems.

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alex_duf
I stopped watching the video when they put a sexy lady dipping a finger in the
liquid.

Seriously it's 2017, you're trying to sell technology and you still objectify
women.

~~~
2_listerine_pls
> you still objectify women

I would rather live in a world where women are still an attraction.

~~~
euyyn
Men are an attraction to about half the population of this world.

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bfung
Can someone enlighten me on why we need a smarter speed bump?

If cars going too fast are going to be damaged either way, there's no benefits
on that end.

If the motivation is that cars can go slightly faster overall over the bump to
reduce traffic... then don't put a bump there!?!?

Slow traffic will still be slow?

~~~
azinman2
It’s so that when you go the appropriate speed you don’t feel the bump.

~~~
bfung
I wonder if that would make people drive progressively faster over a stretch
of road until they notice the bump.

Or more common, people will speed towards the bump and again, brake right
before it.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
...and the neighborhood Concerned Mothers Association (TM) that worked so hard
to get the town to install them will then start complaining when they have to
listen to every motorcycle and riced out Civic accelerate after the bump.

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julius
Mercedes has a neat solution for speed bumps as well.

"Two cameras located at the top of the windscreen scan the streets and setup
the suspension to absorb the bumps."

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQsMfHg6jIE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQsMfHg6jIE)

~~~
jablan
Neat meaning "does not have to slow down and can keep on killing pedestrians"?

~~~
mrguyorama
Speed bumps are hell on cars even when they are going slowly. This can reduce
the wear on the suspension and ride components without removing the "Go
slower" motivation of the bump

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jmdocherty
This a really interesting idea. The problem of stabbing/puncturing can be
solved by moving the liquid lower in the ground and having a floating more
robust layer above. I imagine it would be particularly useful in places like
outside hospitals where ambulances would prefer a smooth ride if possible.
However, I'm sure we used to make a liquid with similar properties when we
were children out of cornflower (?) and water.

~~~
LeifCarrotson
I'm sure they will make it pretty durable. A reasonable method of construction
would be like a tire, with steel mesh under thick, tough rubber.

And it's corn starch, not corn flower, and water. About a 2:1 ratio.

~~~
jfk13
American "corn starch" = British "cornflour". E.g. see
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_starch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_starch).

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l0b0
I wonder how the mixture and covering will stand up to millions of crossings,
at all kinds of temperatures? Does the covering turn brittle, like most
materials after cooling, heating, stretching and being exposed to sunlight?
Does the mixture remain uniform over time and at different temperatures, so
slow drivers don't get a surprise? Can it withstand the sideways force when
someone suddenly brakes while passing it? Will it withstand the rare passing
of an extremely heavy vehicle, like a tank or special transport? Is it easily
sabotaged?

~~~
Balgair
Putting these in Ann Arbor or Tuscon would be the best test. How does it fair
in freeze/unfreeze daily cycling like in Michigan? Hows the rubber stuff work
in Tuscon where you really can fry an egg on the sidewalk? What's the cost
benefit to cash pinched cities, the maintenance, etc? What happens when bored
teens try to drain it or inflate it with bottle-rockets? Does the goop damage
paint? ETC.

I feel this is a Silicon Valley 'Problem' where everyone else has much
tougher/different ones than the Redwood City slogan of 'Climate Best By
Government Test.'

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takk309
This just looks like a solution for a problem that does not exist. Speed bump
geometry can satisfy the need for a smooth ride at slow speeds. There are
three general types of traffic calming devices that would get slotted into the
"speed bump" category: 1) traditional speed bumps, 2) speed humps, and 3)
speed tables. I won't bother explaining a traditional speed bump as many of us
are already familiar with them. A speed hump is generally longer, in the
direction of travel, than a speed bump but not so long that a normal passenger
vehicle will have both axles on the hump at the same time. A speed table is
long enough, again in the direction of travel, that both axles of a passenger
vehicle will be on top of the table. With both humps and tables the transition
can be designed for a given effect. A sudden transition will be more severe to
motorists, while a long, gradual transition can make the hump or table
comfortable for the motorist. With all of these traffic calming options
emergency vehicles are a concern. However, traffic calming measures like these
should not be placed on roadways that will be frequently traveled by emergency
vehicles. These traffic calming measures should be placed on low-volume, low-
speed local roads.

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karmakaze
Immediately brings to mind the shield exercise in Dune which only the slow
blade can pierce. Can't recall if it had a name.

~~~
Havoc
They were the result of a Holtzman generator and was an attribute inherent to
shields rather than just the shield exercise. The actual slow vs fast aspect
was never given a name per se.

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jv22222
I don't think that could work in th UK or Ireland... because bored kids would
have too much fun cutting it open.

~~~
Klathmon
Would a hinged hardcover solve that problem?

~~~
PoachedSausage
Or cover it with chainmaille.

~~~
emn13
They'll use nails then.

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fencepost
Increased expense and fragility to reduce the impact of going over speed bumps
that (if properly designed) already have less impact when drivers are at out
below the desired speed? Seems to me that there are likely more durable me
cost effective ways to spend that money, such as making sure that bumps
actually are properly sized /shaped for their target speeds.

This seems like an interesting concept that's worth the effort and expense
only for very niche applications.

------
snaily
A similar idea (Custard-Filled Speed Bumps) dates from 2001 at the Half
Bakery: [http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Custard-
Filled_20Speed_20Bump...](http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Custard-
Filled_20Speed_20Bumps) \- are there any earlier sightings?

------
edwhitesell
The biggest hurdle to speedbump placement for speeders in residential areas is
emergency service response times (ISO response times and such).

Now, if you had a speed bump that could become perfectly smooth when emergency
vehicles are approaching, but have some other slowing effect for normal
traffic, that would be interesting.

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chr1
Another interesting way of making speed bumps smarter is changing their form:
two long smooth triangles so that the slope is fairly small. Amsterdam has
many speed bumps of this type, and they are fairly smooth at slow speeds.

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runeks
From the first video:

> “Whether you respect the speed limit or not, your car will suffer from a
> speed bump regardless.”

Can anyone confirm this? I would assume the suspension can handle speed bumps
fine at low speeds. That’s what it feels like from inside the car anyway.

Couldn’t it be argued that, as we approach a speed of 0 mph, there exists a
speed at which no damage is done to the car whatsoever? And, if we place speed
bumps accordingly, there is no need for this technology — particularly
considering the difference in cost and maintenance?

~~~
TomMarius
You still have to brake (brake pads and discs suffer for no reason), gear down
(transmission suffers) and potentially move off at a low speed (clutch
suffers, your wallet suffers if you go over them frequently). Even at minimal
speeds (less than 20 km/h), speed bumps feel very unpleasant and I really
don't like sounds my car is doing while riding over them.

~~~
ygra
Shouldn't speed bumps be designed that you move over them at the speed allowed
there, e.g. 30 km/h? So theoretically there wouldn't be a slowdown, unless
you're already going faster than allowed.

At least I haven't seen speed bumps in 50 km/h roads just to slow people down.

~~~
TomMarius
Should, probably, but it's common in Central Europe that on a 50km/h road,
there are 2 speedbumps that can't be safely passed if you're going over
25km/h.

~~~
honestoHeminway
Here in germany, mostly due to tech that allows speed-bump avoidcance, most
villages and citys use a sort of slalom that by virtue of physics enforces a
speed limit.

Also beloved are narrowings to one lane, where you can not see until you are
really close up, wethere somebody from the other side is entering the lane.

------
dottrap
Badenova posted the first video on the page in 2010.

It's been 7 years. Anybody know how adoption has been?

~~~
KGIII
I don't have a direct answer for you. I can try to shine some light on it. I'm
retired but worked in a related field. As such, I was expected to keep up with
tech such as this and to be able to model the results of this - I modeled
traffic at a fine level, ideally.

Since retiring, I've kept my interests up and have paid even more attention to
the coming tech. I signed a non-compete, but I still have my interests.

This is the first I've heard of it. I've never heard of it and know of no
usage in the industry. And yes, even parking garages sometimes get modeled
during the design phase.

So, make of that what you will. I've not only not heard of this product, I've
not even heard of this technology being proposed. This may mean that I just
missed it.

------
agumonkey
Question I asked myself for years, why not use the idea in car bumpers. Maybe
not fully loaded with fluids but non newtonian approach to shock absorption.

~~~
yjftsjthsd-h
I would speculate that it's precisely because you _don 't_ want a car to be
rigid on impact.

~~~
agumonkey
You want a controled response curve. Something that gradually stiffens so the
objects get slowed down as much as possible

------
Xylakant
This is going to be fun. Some people will learn that it's soft at slow speeds
and will assume it's always soft and severely damage their cars.

~~~
TeMPOraL
No tears shed by me. Speed limits are to be obeyed, not ignored.

~~~
chrisper
Are you always driving exactly 5 MPH in a garage?

~~~
emn13
I seriously doubt this is going to damage vicious speed freaks driving 8mph,
pretty much no matter what it's made of.

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smilekzs
Purely out of curiousity: Is it physically possible for a sufficiently smart
active suspension system defeat a conventional (i.e. solid bump on the road)
speed bump?

~~~
saagarjha
If I remember correctly I saw a Bose demo where they were able to roll their
car over speed bumps and it would stay completely level. I’m not sure if that
completely negated their impact, but it looked like it from the video.

~~~
KozmoNau7
It only worked so well because they rigged the tests. The suspension was tuned
for exactly each demonstration, it wouldn't work under normal mixed
conditions. The system was also extremely heavy and used a boatload of power
for the actuators.

A well-setup conventional suspension system works nearly as well for anything
you would encounter in the real world, and it's a lot less expensive. Even
Citroën (the kings of hydropneumatic active suspension) will be going with
traditional suspension only from their next generation C5, despite being
stalwarts of active suspension tech since the 1950s.

Having driven a C3 through southern Germany on vacation recently, I see their
point. That silly little car was significantly more comfortable than my older,
larger Peugeot sedan, and more comfortable than even the 1st-gen C5 my parents
drive.

Conventional suspension tech has come a long, long way.

~~~
smilekzs
Ignoring street-legality and commercial feasibility, if the Bose suspension is
automatically adjusted using feedback from e.g. LIDAR and/or depth cameras,
wouldn't that solve the "tune for each demo" problem?

~~~
KozmoNau7
Theoretically, yes. It would be fun to see an updated version.

------
dahart
I look forward to the problem of speed bumps disappearing when self driving
cars take over. In the mean time, I know everyone hates it, but automated
camera based speeding ticket systems would be cheaper and more effective than
non-Newtonian speed bumps. We're also at a point in technology where cars
could easily know the local speed limit and enforce it themselves.

~~~
drzaiusapelord
I think its a little naive to expect these cars not to be modified for a speed
advantage. The same way I can get stuck behind a pickup that's clearly not
giving the emissions from its factory settings due to its owner's
modifications and most likely illegal ones but with very little political will
to stop. Or how people speed nowadays without consequences.

Automated cars will have the same issues. We'll see a 3rd party mod and chip
market immediately. "Go 20% over the limit" and "cut through alleys" and
"aggressively pass and change lanes" or "ride the shoulder in heavy traffic"
mods will be everywhere.

Heck, we're kinda there now. Recently Google maps asked me to use an alley as
a through street, which I found a little off-putting. Alleys aren't designed
for thru traffic, have cars and people backing in and out, have children
playing basketball, etc.

~~~
dahart
Emissions is a problem that _could_ go away with technology as well.

But speed advantage over other cars on the road is a mostly emotional desire
that matters to human drivers. Cars with speed advantage are marketed as such
right now. I do think that marketing will disappear when cars go driverless.

And don't forget we are in this case talking about people illegally speeding.
You are not legally entitled to use your speed advantage to drive at twice the
speed limit in a neighborhood with a school zone, even if there's a smoky
pickup in front of you. And yet, if we don't put speed bumps in the way, some
people will choose to do so anyway, putting others at risk. A kid in my
neighborhood was killed just a couple of weeks ago by someone speeding, and
there are several speed bumps near me that were installed immediately after
children were hit.

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davesque
Interesting but how is this really better than just laying down a few extra
layers of asphalt to create a traditional speed bump?

Also, I feel like there's a risk here that the average person will have
trouble understanding how such an unusual speed bump works. Therefore, it may
end up causing damage to more cars.

~~~
m-p-3
The idea isn't bad, but like most new car tech it doesn't consider the harsher
climates from northern countries.

Cold and snow are tough problems to solve when implementing those.

------
george_ciobanu
Did nobody notice the lady at 00:40 and the bizarre gestures she is asked to
do during the demonstration?

~~~
PMan74
The whole idea of having the pretty lady in the tight top to demo the product
itself is what threw me. Such a throwback.

------
exabrial
Does it allow emergency vehicles to proceed quickly? :/ That's my main
criticism of speed bumps

~~~
dfox
I think that that is exactly the reason why this will not get used. Many
speedbumps are actually designed in a way that they are imperceptible when you
go sufficiently fast (80km/h is usual)

~~~
calebm
Sounds like expert-level trolling ;)

~~~
unfunco
These are speed-bumps near my mother's house in Wales:
[https://goo.gl/maps/hdThhzduxpp](https://goo.gl/maps/hdThhzduxpp) – they're
sort of trapezoid, they work to slow traffic, but above a certain speed you
definitely feel less of a bump too.

------
amelius
Reminds me of:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2XQ97XHjVw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2XQ97XHjVw)

------
rbanffy
Would it last the couple years a rigid speed bump does? Do we really have a
problem with rigid speed bumps anyway?

------
aerovistae
i mean, the real problem I feel like is that there are people walking too, and
this is kind of a major trip hazard for the elderly and disabled, and/or
pretty much everyone. "I'll just step _here_ and WHOA WHAT HAPPENED WHY IS IT
JELLY?!"

I suspect this was a problem that didn't need to be solved.

------
free_everybody
Cool idea, but knowing my part of the world, people would LOVE to pop these.
Lol.

------
naraniano
Being Spanish, I know someone will stab those with a knife or a screwdriver
the first day they are installed. That someone might even be me.

I mean I'm happy they are proud of their invention but, please. Don't make me
laugh.

~~~
ricardobeat
How many public lighting bulbs and metro card readers have you broken
recently? Those are all more fragile than this.

~~~
naraniano
None, because nobody hates lighting bulbs or metro card readers, while every
driver hates speed bumps.

Well, maybe not all drivers, but one driver who hates that damn speed bump
that he has to drive over every day is enough to make that baby bleed. :)

I'm just being realistic. I've lived in an impoverished area all of my life
and I know how things here work. I'm saying what I honestly believe would
happen with these.

~~~
tempestn
You might be right that they'd be vandalized. I expect you're getting down
votes largely for suggesting you'd do it yourself.

~~~
naraniano
What I meant, although I guess it wasn't clear, is that from my own experience
a vandal is many times not what you expect him to be. Sometimes, he's some guy
with glasses who posts on Hacker News. And sometimes, that vandal is not a he,
but a she. I've seen it all. :)

~~~
nils-m-holm
I really appreciate the brutal honesty of your initial comment! Of course
there is a vandal in every single one of us and those who say otherwise (or
downvote) are in denial.

~~~
tempestn
That may be true of many, but certainly not everyone. I find most vandalism to
be pretty morally reprehensible, since it does damage to another person or to
society as a whole, for no benefit besides momentary enjoyment. I have
significantly more compassion for a thief than a vandal. (Of course, these
feelings would be somewhat proportional to the degree of damage caused.)

