
Tesla’s competitors find that going electric has its own set of problems - prostoalex
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/teslas-competitors-find-that-going-electric-has-its-own-set-of-problems-2019-11-04?link=sfmw_fb&fbclid=IwAR3TtwCcizclfVN-fQfY5QIaaDOzXYk8mV9AkyVinRl-t0g7Ff844q16tBk
======
threeseed
I find these type of articles hilarious because they treat EV cars as though
they are a gaming PC where all that matters is specs. Completely oblivious to
the fact that people don't buy cars based just on specs.

Intangibles like brand, design, experience, feeling, handling etc are often
just as if not more important. For example no Porsche Taycan buyer is ever
going to choose a Model 3/S just because it has a few extra kilometres of
range.

~~~
phkahler
>> Intangibles like brand, design, experience, feeling, handling etc are often
just as if not more important.

I think that's why the incumbents are having a hard time. They want to make an
electric version of what they already have. It's probably easier to produce an
EV that was designed to be electric from the start. If that's the case, the
problem may be one of commitment. Tesla is committed - they only make electric
cars.

~~~
threeseed
Most of the newer EVs have been built from scratch.

And are in fact now being shared amongst the various groups as standardised
architectures e.g. Porsche/Audi, Polestar/Volvo, Rivian/Ford.

------
pascalmahe
My French bias is going to show but I wonder how Renault's Zoe is doing. It's
been out for 6 years. Granted, Renault is completely absent from the US market
and the car is uh... really not marketable for the US (it's tiny).

~~~
thefounder
I don't believe Renault makes Zoe to sell. They make the model for compliance
with EU regulations.

~~~
harperlee
Madrid has zoes for carsharing through the zity app and frankly they are
perfect for the city and nearby roads.

~~~
bonzini
Same in Italy, electric car sharing is exclusively using Zoe's.

~~~
rasz
Who owns the car sharing company? Is it an Energy company by any chance? a
coal plant owning Energy company?

~~~
bonzini
It's owned by the train company.

------
raxxorrax
A few years ago our city had introduced electric buses. These were quite
awesome and significantly reduced noise pollution. Most noise actually comes
from tires instead of motors nowadays with the exception of slow speed
acceleration, where buses can be extremely loud. Recently electric buses seem
to have vanished again.

I think that was due to a fire that happened and the reliability was lower
than their diesel counterparts (I think it was 90%, compared to 98%). Very sad
about that they are gone again.

We see a lot of Teslas here. It was pretty hyped and you had to wait a long
time to get one. I don't believe that the unilateral market dominance of Tesla
will be kept on the current level to be honest.

In recent days you see more and more smaller city cars.

~~~
IshKebab
> Most noise actually comes from tires instead of motors nowadays

This is only really true for well-maintained cars. As soon as you have a few
lorries, old vans, purposely loud motorbikes, etc. it becomes complete
rubbish.

~~~
raxxorrax
True, and not relevant at low speeds (cities). But I think it is already
reality for most cars. Not buses though.

------
zhdc1
Manufacturers are playing from behind & are worried about it. I'm aware of at
least one (I won't mention who it is, but it's not particularly hard to guess)
who is funding a number of studies on how to capture market share in this
segment as a late entrant.

You're also starting to see a lot of concern about the economic/social impact
that electrification is going to have - it's mentioned in the linked article,
but electric vehicles require a lot less labor to manufacture. Assuming that
the traditional players in this industry even survive the switch to electric
vehicles, you're going to see a lot of layoffs as all of this plays out.

~~~
cjhopman
> electric vehicles require a lot less labor to manufacture

That's awesome!

But I'm confused...

why do Tesla's cars take so much more man hours to manufacture than other cars
then? If electric cars take less labor and everybody knows that Tesla is
lightyears ahead of all those dinosaur traditional manufacturers, wtf are
Tesla's employees spending their time on?

~~~
rco8786
Semi guess here. But OP maybe meant that electric _motors_ require less labor
to manufacture more specifically. Tesla’s come up to speed on actual mass
manufacturing of the vehicles themselves has resulted in a lot of manual work
that other big manufacturers would have been able to automate. This was a big
“scandal” with the Model 3...where it was reported that some things were being
done by hand that normally wouldn’t be

~~~
zhdc1
It's not just the car itself - although the UAW GM strike was partially about
that. It's everything else that goes into manufacturing the car.

US example: only around 300k people are employed by GM, Ford, and Crystler
(excluding the rest of FCA). Let's assume that the total figure rises to 1m
once you account for everyone employed by foreign manufacturers in the US,
Tesla, &c. Another 7m people are directly (component manufacturers) or
indirectly (e.g., dealers) employed by companies in or who are associated with
the US automotive sector.

A non trivial number of jobs in the 1m bucket are going to be lost over the
next decade because of electrification. A much larger number and percentage of
jobs are going to be lost in the 7m bucket over the same time frame.

------
mack1001
I have been following Tesla closely for the last 5 years. The amount of FUD
has been astounding considering no other car manufacturer has managed to
launch a mass market electric car. Analysis after analysis say that
competition is right around the corner or NIO is going to beat Tesla. Question
is If these misleading articles/statements are ethical?

~~~
threeseed
Nissan Leaf, Chevy Bolt, Hyundai Ioniq, Hyundai Kona, BMW i3, VW e-Golf, Audi
e-Tron, Mercedes EQC, Renault Zoe, Jaguar i-Pace etc.

Are they not mass market cars ?

Hyundai Kona is outselling every Tesla model combined in some EU countries so
I would consider them mass market.

~~~
jryle70
Where does your number come from? You should also be more specific about those
"some EU countries".

Kona sales in Europe in 2019 so far is 77,641 [0], but the electric version is
likely tiny because Hyundai only sold 2,424 fully electric cars in June 2019.
Across all models! Less than one percent of their total number [1]

Tesla has sold 75,959 in Europe in 2019 [2]

[0] [http://carsalesbase.com/european-car-sales-
data/hyundai/hyun...](http://carsalesbase.com/european-car-sales-
data/hyundai/hyundai-kona/) [1] [https://cleantechnica.com/2019/08/22/hyundai-
kia-great-elect...](https://cleantechnica.com/2019/08/22/hyundai-kia-great-
electric-vehicles-but-where-are-the-battery-contracts/) [2]
[http://carsalesbase.com/european-car-sales-
data/tesla/](http://carsalesbase.com/european-car-sales-data/tesla/)

------
clouddrover
> _Back to Tesla: According to an equity research paper by Jefferies, it is
> the only company that doesn’t share the misfortune of its competitors._

Maybe. They're being investigated for battery fires:

[https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a29666731/nhtsa-
investigat...](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a29666731/nhtsa-
investigation-tesla-fire-reports/)

Telsa has reduced the battery capacity of some Model S's and X's. There's a
class action in progress to at least clarity the reduction in capacity and get
some kind of remedy from Tesla. If Tesla has done it for safety reasons and
not reported that to the NHTSA then Tesla could be in for some fines:

[https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/sudden-loss-of-
range...](https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/sudden-loss-of-range-
with-2019-16-x-software.154976/)

[https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-battery/tesla-
owner...](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-battery/tesla-owner-
lawsuit-claims-software-update-fraudulently-cut-battery-capacity-
idUSKCN1UY2TW)

~~~
rcMgD2BwE72F
>They're being investigated for battery fires

No, they aren't:
[https://twitter.com/VGrinshpun/status/1191187275394228226](https://twitter.com/VGrinshpun/status/1191187275394228226)

~~~
clouddrover
Read the articles.

~~~
rcMgD2BwE72F
I did, and it's why I posted the link to a thread that corrects them.

The NHTSA did not open an investigation. They asked Tesla some data for
analysis, and they will determine if facts corroborate the petition's claim.
They may open an investigation at some point but they have not.

C/D, Reuters and the LA Times know that, but for some reason, they prefer
sensationalism to journalism.

~~~
clouddrover
> _They asked Tesla some data for analysis_

So you're saying they're investigating if further investigation is warranted?
Wow, man.

Wait for the 15th of December. The "non-investigation" will have reported back
by then.

