
The myopia boom (2015) - betterfuture
https://www.nature.com/news/the-myopia-boom-1.17120
======
jacobwilliamroy
I always thought it was because all of the "far away" stuff is outside and a
person who spends 90% of their time indoors never has to look at anything far
away.

What are the rates of shortsightedness among people living in dense forests
(or some other cramped outdoor environment)?

~~~
Vadoff
I think the eye damage is more to do with looking at something of fixed
distance for long periods of time (computers, tvs, tablets, & phones).

A person living in a dense forest would still be constantly adjusting his/her
focus.

~~~
princeb
> In the early 2000s, when researchers started to look at specific behaviours,
> such as books read per week or hours spent reading or using a computer, none
> seemed to be a major contributor to myopia risk.

is no one reading the article?

------
tristanj
Discussion from 3 years ago (311 points):
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9227541](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9227541)

------
walterbell
Jan 2018 thread on eye health, 99 comments:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16146106](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16146106)

Jan 2018 thread on vision therapy, 140 comments:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16194580](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16194580)

------
koverda
What if we make cellphone screens which emit 10,000 lux? Boom. Problem solved.

~~~
tomxor
I know you are being facetious but it's probably important to note that the
LED and oLED light used in phones is not wide spectrum.

I think attempting to generate the equivalent intensity of natural light means
unnaturally high intensity three component narrow band frequency exposure?...
I can imagine that might pose a non obvious risk to eyes because it _looks_
visibly equivalent.

(sorry I am unable to reference it but there was some research into the
negative effects of this recently given the advent of LED lights replacing
incandescents)

~~~
tomxor
Found it:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12575725](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12575725)

Note: the top rated post has focused on editorial quality and glossed over the
fact that it is narrow band light and cannot be compared as equivalently in
wide spectrum terms beyond perception (e.g colour temperature), this is
pointed out in the 2nd immediate child by sandworm101.

I should point out that the properties of the light beyond perception _are_
important due to ipRGCs: the mammalian retina contains ipRGC photo-receptors
that do not relay images to the brain but are responsible for various
reflexive responses. These receptors are sensitive to a wide spectrum of light
peeking around blue [1]. Ultimately these ipRGCs release melanopsin which is
known to affect circadian rhythm, and is thought to control sleep wake
patterns [2].

I expect you've heard about this vaugley before as I have, but what is
interesting in the context of LEDs is that ipRGCs appear to respond to more of
a continuum of spectrum, so unlike our cones they would be "perceiving" LED
light quite differently to our consciously perceived images.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanopsin#Function](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanopsin#Function)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanopsin#Control_of_sleep/wa...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanopsin#Control_of_sleep/wake_patterns)

------
betterfuture
I can only imagine the problem getting much worse in the future. Wherever I
go, I see kids of all ages hooked on cell-phones - either on mobile games,
youtube videos or on instagram/snapchat. This is probably significantly
cutting down their natural light exposure.

~~~
openasocket
Why would cell phone use cut down on natural light exposure compared to books
or TV? The whole point of a cell phone is that you can use it anywhere,
including outside. Based on the thesis of this article, all you need to do is
play on your cell phone while you're outside to prevent myopia.

~~~
inetknght
I use my cell phone a lot more indoors than outdoors. I don't _go_ outdoors
because my cell phone enables me to connect with people indoors when I would
normally be required to go outdoors to connect with them without a cell phone.

~~~
matte_black
When I was a young child I was on my computer or playing video games on a TV
all day, rarely going outdoors. When I got my first smartphone, it was
actually very liberating. Now I could be outside anywhere, and still surf the
internet and play any number of games at any time.

~~~
freeflight
Afaik that's a very generational thing, people a bit older than you spend a
whole lot more time outside.

My first smartphone (the first iPhone one) gave me the same liberating feeling
you describe there, but it didn't take long for me to realize that mobile
gaming isn't for me and while I can do most stuff I want on a smartphone, I
can do it better and more efficiently on a full-blown desktop/laptop with
proper peripherals, so that's where I still end up doing most of it.

In recent years my smartphone even feels more of an annoying hassle than an
actual asset, except for the occasional use for navigation and regular use as
mp3 player.

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montrose
This is an interesting article, but I found I was able to read it, for the
most part, by reading the first sentence of every paragraph. That shows how
much fat there is in the typical magazine article.

~~~
improbable22
This is actually something many authors aim for. Few readers need all the
details, but some do, and this makes it obvious where to dig. It’s harder than
it looks to pull off, without sounding stilted... perhaps because it’s the
opposite of storytelling, where you build up to a punchline.

------
simonebrunozzi
Any article about myopia which doesn't mention anything about nutrition is
"shortsighted" (pun intended).

One of the most interesting discussions around causes for myopia is centered
on nutrition, and how growing faster than our ancestors can negatively effect
our vision.

I looked for a specific reference to share here (something I've read years
ago), but I didn't find it.

~~~
stevebmark
That's because what you eat has nothing to do with the shape of your eyeball,
and there's no scientific basis for bringing this up in the context of myopia

~~~
slim
It has. Drinking milk for instance is directly correlated to your growth

~~~
dd36
Filtered cows blood causes growth?

~~~
20after4
No. Growth hormone given to cows which winds up in the milk.

~~~
y_molodtsov
No it's not. The modern increase in the average height is caused by the
accessibility of protein.

------
ikeaman
After reading this article, I think it's borderline cruelty to give
adolescents detention during recess for misbehavior. If anything, this enables
more pent up behaviors which could lead to myopia.

~~~
woolvalley
You make it outdoors detention, where they sit and watch other kids play.

I don't know whats more cruel.

~~~
freeflight
No reason to have them just sit and passively watch, let them do something
outside, like tending to the school garden.

That way they do something valuable and vent whatever is frustrating them
through the physical exercise.

------
airstrike
TL;DR "After studying more than 4,000 children at Sydney primary and secondary
schools for three years, they found that children who spent less time outside
were at greater risk of developing myopia."

------
_bxg1
I thought this was talking about figurative shortsightedness for the first
sentence or two and I was like "Hmm, yes, interesting."

------
abledon
There was a thread on here recently about the Trades Industry, and many people
warned that even though you are up and using your body, not looking at a
screen 8hours a day, there are still back injuries etc related to that mobile
profession.

I suppose though on average non-sedentary jobs with minimal indoor computer
screen jobs have a lower rate of myopia increase..

Is it worth the pay raise to work in tech if our eyes , one of the most
imporant senses is put at a higher risk? What about the whole population of
young up and comers.

I think e-ink screens will help in 3-4 years when refresh rate is high enough.
More people can work on screens in direct sunlight.

~~~
Kluny
I guess living kills you.

We should all try to be more like Jeanne Calment.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_Calment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_Calment)

She was well educated in France with a liberal arts degree, married well and
never had to work, went mountaineering with her husband on holidays, hosted
German soliders during the second world war but didn't mind it very much,
spent her mornings in prayer, had an elaborate skincare routine, smoked,
drank, ate lots of chocolate and rode her bicycle every day right up until the
end at age 122.

Basically, fuck working.

~~~
menssen
Or Frida Kahlo. It’s pretty easy to become an idol of art or health when
you’re born into money.

All those traditional mid-century Marxist “class is the only thing that
matters” people don’t sound so bad now, huh.

------
woodpanel
What about Hyperopia?

If sunlight exposure is the cause of too long eyeballs, shouldn't kids which
are at hereditary risk of developing too short eyeballs be put in darkrooms?

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pc2g4d
My question is, can increased time outdoors prevent eyesight from degenerating
further after myopia has already developed?

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EGreg
Hidden variable: looking at screens.

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colordrops
I don't have any real evidence, but anecdotally I suspect that diet also has
an effect on vision. Could be just a coincidence, but my vision declined as a
child during a period when I was regularly stuffing myself with sweets, and
know others with similar experience.

~~~
pyronite
Is the diet in East Asian countries (Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore & South
Korea) significantly worse than it was in the 1920s? As the article details,
myopia is increasingly common in China as well. The Chinese suffered numerous
famines between 1920 and 1960.

I'm sure diet plays some role in eye health, but nutrition has likely improved
in all of the countries they're discussing.

~~~
airstrike
The value of a diet isn't just a single interval between "hungry" and "fed".

------
dingleberry
light intensity does that

try this: take a picture, same object, no flash, ... one under normal bright
sun and another in a room under normal bright lighting. which one is sharper?

set phone brightness to lowest, another on highest. try to read something and
measure your arm's length. adjust brightness so you can still focus at
farthest arm's length as comfort dictates. don't save on power juice. your
eyes are more important.

drive outside and then go to underground parking lot. you'll notice it's
harder to look.

use your normal glasses in a normal lighting room. go outside and swith to
lower power (say your previous glasses). notice the difference.

the problem was i used the same power glasses all the time, out of habit. the
very same glasses for reading far (chalkboards) and for reading books. it's
somewhat not practical to switch glasses every time you copy something from
board and write to your notes. using lower powered glasses and move my seat to
the front mitigate this problem.

tldr; try to get maximum amount of light to your eyes as comfort dictates. if
you really have to use glasses, choose the one with lower power that's
sufficient for your need. practice to never use glasses for most tasks (adjust
brightness on smartphone). you'll be surprised on what ur eyes can do without
glasses.

~~~
hetman
More specifically it's the bright light triggering the iris to close that
improves the focus. As the aperture narrows (iris closes) the incoming rays
become more collimated (less scattered) and so the image falling on your
cornea appears sharper even if your eye's lens is not able to focus it
correctly. At it's extreme this effect allows the pinhole camera to work
without using any lenses at all to focus the image.

The thing is though, while using lower powered glasses might help you train
the muscles around your eyes' lenses to be stronger, mitigating the myopia
slightly, the root problem still remains: your eyeball is the wrong shape and
there's only so much your eyes' lenses can do to make up for that.

~~~
dingleberry
not really...

seeing things under sun is not equal to squirting ur eyes to focus the
incoming rays

it's just that much light coming, the intensity of light to be exact.

that's why camera, given the same setup, gives sharper image under bright sun
light

I never get as tired playing outside as compared to squirting my eyes all the
time just to focus in a room. sun light is just that intense, rooms lightings
are much less intense.

~~~
hetman
Cameras only give a sharper picture in bright light because this allows you to
reduce the aperture size. The image is not sharper if you increase the shutter
speed instead of reducing the aperture. This is basic physics. Bright light is
not magical.

Squinting your eyes is a very poor approximation to what your irises are
doing. The light collimation is not reduced uniformly in every axis and your
eyelashes partially obscure the light.

------
stevebmark
Sunglasses are something else to consider. There is zero scientific evidence
sunglasses protect your vision in any way. (There is suspicion UV exposure can
lead to some eye diseases, but it's not a proven link, nor are the mechanisms
understood). If increased exposure to sunlight is correlated with better
vision, we better revisit our completely non-scientific sunglasses dogma.

~~~
joezydeco
The evidence is firming up that UV (esp UV-B) exposure is linked to cataracts
and macular degeneration.

[https://nei.nih.gov/news/briefs/uv_cataract](https://nei.nih.gov/news/briefs/uv_cataract)

[https://www.macular.org/ultra-violet-and-blue-
light](https://www.macular.org/ultra-violet-and-blue-light)

Blue light from LEDs that are out of spec can also be a problem. The EU
already has standards for this.

[http://www.cree.com/led-
components/media/documents/XLamp_Eye...](http://www.cree.com/led-
components/media/documents/XLamp_EyeSafety.pdf)

~~~
graeme
Are those "blue light wakeup devices" a risk for this?

~~~
inciampati
Given their intensity they very well could be. I actually stopped using one
after a few months due to this concern.

~~~
graeme
I just realized the one I bought is supposed to mimic daylight. Same issue
regardless dur to incomplete spectrum?

