
The Ballad of the Green Beret - smacktoward
http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2017/09/ballad-green-beret
======
okreallywtf
My dad was in the Army Special Forces during Vietnam. He says "they" didn't
like the term Green Berets and I don't remember why, it might have something
to do with the song (which he also claims was not well liked) or the movie.

I think he has a conflicted view of his time, he did not stay in the service
afterwards and to this day I think he both regrets his participation in the
war and is proud of it at the same time.

I think war, and by extension the military allows people (mostly young men
historically) to push themselves and put themselves in danger, forming some of
the most memorable moments of their lives. The problem is this often goes with
creating some of the most traumatic moments of their lives, and they are
forever stuck with the juxtaposition of those memories.

I've personally felt a longing for the former but not the latter and I wish
there were more opportunities to gain those kinds of experiences and the
camaraderie without having to do things you are morally opposed to. I've found
myself looking into disaster relief work and things like that at times as an
alternative but that might not be a realistic option at this point in my life.

~~~
jonah
> I wish there were more opportunities to gain those kinds of experiences and
> the camaraderie without having to do things you are morally opposed to.

I recently joined my local Search and Rescue team. The opportunity popped up
at just the right time for me and combines many things that I'm interested in
while being of service to my community. The application process was fairly
rigorous (under 10% acceptance rate) we then went through intensive training
in a wide range of skills before being able to respond to calls. The team has
a lot of cool toys, trains to high levels to maintain their certifications,
has types of access to areas of the county that the public doesn't, is on call
24/7, and directly deals with the life and safety of individuals and the
community at large.

Depending on where you live, your local team might be something for you to
look in to.

~~~
Bulkington
Many, many communities still rely, at least in part, on volunteer
firefighters. I know a number of former military guys that love it--provides
that the risk/rush and camaraderie you're looking for. And it ain't a
cakewalk.

[https://www.volunteerfd.org/become-a-volunteer-
firefighter/](https://www.volunteerfd.org/become-a-volunteer-firefighter/)

~~~
okreallywtf
Thats a good point, I was thinking about that and first responder. Where I
grew up most people are actually served by volunteer fire departments
(extremely rural, only the towns have full fire departments and they are low
population). Any time there was any kind of fire or medical emergency
volunteer firefighters and first responders were always there super fast even
if regular emergency services were ~30 minutes away.

My dad was actually a EMS/Paramedic for 20+ years and I think he feels similar
about that to his military service. The long periods of boredom (low
population rural area) followed by intense life and death situations mimics
deployment/combat experience and if you have psychological issues related to
wartime experience it can exacerbate it. At the same time, saving lives and
helping people are extremely fond memories but when I was growing up I think
the job was harder on him than he remembers these days.

------
saosebastiao
The song lyrics hit home. My father was a green beret, and now I have a
brother who is a combat controller and another brother who is 101st airborne
and training to become a ranger. I also started down that path but I have
diminished lung capacity due to a bout with tuberculosis, so I never could
join.

There's a million things wrong with the lifestyle. Even if you don't die, you
still do in a sociocultural sense. Divorce rates are near 100%. Nearly all of
your job is classified or top secret, so you can't discuss it with anybody.
Even your psychiatrists have to have top secret clearance just to talk to you.
It's nearly impossible to have any commitments (social, financial,
educational, etc.), because you can be pulled away at any moment, and you
can't even tell people when you expect to return. Bankruptcy is extremely
common, and nobody has good credit. It's nearly impossible to leave and do any
other occupation successfully.

And yet, even though he left the green berets to become a mostly unsuccessful
but still boring CPA, and even though I basically have no relationship with
him anymore, I still have this undeniable urge to be a part of it. I read the
books, seek out the stories, devour any news of operations, etc. And while my
dad paid lip service to how bad it was, he's secretly proud of his two special
operations sons and he clings on to their lives, trying to relive his own.

~~~
binarytransform
As a 12-year post-9/11 veteran with 7 years at a Tier 1 SOCOM unit and
currently a successful BD guy at a Top 5 SV unicorn, your post is filled with
misinformation, generalities, and is frankly offensive. Many of my brothers
and sisters from the SOF world have successfully transitioned to the civilian
world and are crushing it. Are there dark times - yes. But we either choose to
let them define us or choose to rise above and move ahead with our goals.

Your comment about bankruptcies and poor credit is not even worth responding
to.

~~~
saosebastiao
The world under SOCOM is pretty big, and I've only experienced some of it,
second hand via direct family as well as family friends. I may be painting
with an overly broad brush, but I'm telling it how I experienced it.

The bankruptcy and credit problem may not be as relevant anymore due to
technology, but it was absolutely relevant in the time my father was active.
The technology we rely on to maintain our finances (automatic payments, mail,
pervasive internet and phone communications) didn't exist, and if it did, it
wasn't anywhere near the combat outposts where they would be deployed to for
several months to train local militias. It is really hard to pay a bill if you
can't be sent a bill, call to ask about a balance, send a check via mail, or
have your bank take care of it for you.

I do know at least one former Ranger who was pretty successful in a civilian
job (logistics at amazon), but I've known far more that couldn't hack anything
out of the military (apart from security contractors that is). Maybe my sample
is small and not representative, but that's just the way I've seen it. Sorry
if I offended you by the generalization, it wasn't my intent at all.

------
gumby
I clicked on this wondering "WTF is something like this on HN" and really
enjoyed and learned from what I read. Thanks, submission-upvoters! A great
piece of HN serendipity.

(This also made me realize I have a weird saddle-curve tropism: articles that
are clearly on topics I care about I always click on, even though they often
turn out to be me-too. Stuff that's mildly interesting looking I rarely click
on because who has the time? But stuff that looks like it's clearly not-HN
fodder I'll click on. This means I'd probably click on a seeming listicle or
something with "Kardashian" in the title)

~~~
melling
Saw the movie 20 years ago and remember enjoying it. Was better than I
expected. We were “saving the world from communism”. We lost and communism
didn’t take over the world.

Watching the Americans today reminds me of how we fought to save Afghanistan
from the Russians. Now we’re there in our longest war.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Americans_(2013_TV_serie...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Americans_\(2013_TV_series\))

Iraq ... we saved the Iraqi’s from Saddam. Libya from Gaddafi...

Personally, I think the Green Berets should be required watching with an
additional history lesson to help us better reflect on our past and future
choices.

Maybe someday we’ll stop trying to save the world, and quit repeating past
mistakes.

------
sevensor
This explains (kind-of) the Simon and Garfunkel lyric, "I've been Lou Adlered,
Barry Sadlered." Somehow it had never occurred to me that Barry Sadler was a
famous person. I suppose I'd assumed since I didn't get the reference, they'd
just tossed in a name that fit the meter.

------
mikestew
I was hesitant to click on it due to my association of the song with the 1968
warmonger propaganda film “The Green Berets” (not John Wayne’s best work,
IMO). But the story itself was not what I would have expected, so worth a
read.

------
hmigneron
I'm not American and didn't know about the green berets until I heard of them
in this episode from the Love+Radio Podcast :

[http://loveandradio.org/2016/11/wood-fighting-with-
steel/](http://loveandradio.org/2016/11/wood-fighting-with-steel/)

It's an intimate interview with a Vietnam vet (the green beret). A truly
beautiful piece of radio IMHO.

~~~
SteelSaint
Thank you for sharing, I really enjoyed listening to this.

------
donquichotte
Sounds like the life story of the child from a triangle relationship between
Ernest Hemingway, Hunter S. Thompson and Jack Kerouac.

~~~
R_haterade
And raised in Leadville, a town famous for its whorehouses at the time.

------
pnutjam
I read one of the Casca novels as a teenager and the premise really stuck with
me. I remember referencing it to my wife recently and subsequently having to
explain the reference.

I do read alot, and I guess it says something that I haven't searched for or
read any more of the novels.

~~~
godshatter
I read three or four of the Casca series as a teenager. I remember them
fondly, but I'm not sure they would age well. Maybe someday I'll look for one
in ebook form.

------
cm2012
Why would the mom make her son a beret when that's what killed her husband?

~~~
khedoros1
The song paints a narrative of a patriot, dedicated enough to give his life
for his country in the earnest belief that his actions will make life _in_ his
country better.

The exaggerated and romanticized version of the wife of a man like that is
expected to support the same goal just as vigorously, through her sacrifices.
Sending her son to serve when her husband already died that way would just be
a continuation of her patriotic duty.

Note that this is just my interpretation of the song and its commentary on
some aspects of military culture, and not my opinion of a reasonable
expectation for anyone's actual behavior.

