
France Bans Street Harassment, Approving Hefty Fines for Catcallers - hw
https://www.npr.org/2018/08/02/634866222/france-bans-street-harassment-approving-hefty-fines-for-cat-callers
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blunte
A lot of commenters here obviously have not witnessed this or been a target.

In pedestrian areas, sometimes the offender will walk with their target for a
block or more, saying rude things, directly asking for a f++k, etc.

And believe it or not, sometimes a driver of a car will slow to the speed of
the pedestrian and one or more people in the car will harass the pedestrian in
verbal sexual ways.

Even if a law is not easily enforcible, at least if a cop happens to witness
this they can step in and fine the offender. That just might start to have an
impact on the problem.

It's a real nasty situation, particularly for women, especially when they are
walking alone (even in the middle of the day). Some of the offenders have no
sense of civility.

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maeln
We already had law against harassment. They are just very hard to enforce.

This law is mainly a PR move. It is a very common thing in France to pass law
that will almost never be used because they are impossible to enforce. They
only purpose is for the gov to say "look, we did something !".

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Bertio
There is also the normative effect of laws where they do influence the
behavior of the majority.

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candiodari
You mean in a country where police officers have gotten convicted for using
violence against women for not going out with them ? Also officers have gotten
convicted for intercepting phone calls of ex-lovers ? And, given the
convictions, how many such officers got away with doing that ? Hundreds ?
Thousands ?

That's the government that's supposed to change that normative behavior. Or at
least, that's the part of the government that actually interacts with the
majority and enforces the laws.

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SpecialistEMT
Pig apologist.

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vincvinc
Text-only GDPR link:

[https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=634866222&rid=1001](https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=634866222&rid=1001)

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nickflood
Many comments here have concern about this being enforced inappropriately
because it's hard to distinguish between an ok situation and a real
harassment.

I'd say for me it's real clear where the line goes: consent. If a person says
you are not welcome or just doesn't react to you at all after a couple of
sentences, just go on your way. If you fail to do so and continue to get in
the person's way or head, then it's harassment plain and simple.

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randyrand
The issue with that "rule" is that you can harass someone even if you stop as
soon as you realize its unwanted.

A cat call is the most obvious example of this, but there are many less
obvious others.

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nickflood
A very good point! I was mostly addressing the crowds that didn't understand
what this is all about at all.

Frankly, once I understood what terror being a woman in a public space can
sometimes be, I was baffled that it is allowed to happen by the modern
society. To offset this crap, I always behave in the most politest way
possible and don't even hold my gaze for too long just to avoid contributing
to this.

The issue really is that some men think that it's okay to lightly harass women
on the street, so like many other laws, it would have tremendously benefitted
from some kind of educational material aimed at the offenders which shows how
and why this is not okay.

Well, now that this comment is long anyway, I think that much of liberal
legislation would be much better received if it was deployed along with some
kind of education stuff which explains what the problem really is, refutes
common misconceptions etc

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tomp
> like many other laws, it would have tremendously benefitted from some kind
> of educational material aimed at the offenders which shows how and why this
> is not okay.

Does this _actually_ work? Like, will car thievs just stop stealling cars, as
soon as you explain to them _that it’s actually not OK_?

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flashgordon
Wow I'd love to see this done and enforced in India!!

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maym86
Seems reasonable when the evidence is clear. This is too common. People should
be able to walk around their own neighborhood and feel comfortable and safe.
Awaiting replies from the free speech brigade to explain again why taking a
reasonable small step to protect people is the end of the world.

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xtrapolate
Now let's get this down to earth. You're walking outside, it's dark, you get
catcalled by a passerby. What's next? Do you pull out your phone and call the
police? Try and take a picture of the person catcalling you? Where's your
evidence? By the time you're done reaching for your pocket, that other person
is long gone. That is to say, we now have a new law which is incredibly
difficult to enforce, so what's the point exactly?

Why don't we tackle problematic social phenomena through education instead?

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joelbluminator
I head stories of women being harassed daily on the same route to and from
work. It's probably being done by the same guys. If the police really wanted
to, of course they could stop this..just like sexual harassment in the
workplace barely ever happens anymore.

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readittwice
I know women that have to endure that almost every day, but the police can't
do anything about that. The police can't be everywhere and even if they would
there is not much they can do if people approach women by saying something
like "hey beautiful woman".

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opwieurposiu
This law is just another racist way to fine and punish POC. Anyone who has
been to paris knows the primary cat-callers are not white. I thought Le Pen
lost the election?

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hw
What does having the law have to do with race? Regardless of race, cat-calling
is sexual harassment and should be treated as such.

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staticelf
These kind of laws makes approaching people with a sexual interest to perhaps
be considered as sexual harassment. That's why I have stopped approaching
women, it's not worth the risk. When it's popular to write peoples names
publicly on twitter without any evidence for example (metoo), then you know it
has gone way to far.

The truth is if people find you attractive, the chance is much lower that they
will consider it harassment (even if it may be) and just let it slide. I am
sure that these laws will just backfire on the very people it were designed to
protect.

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joelbluminator
There are certain settings where this is more appropriate: bars, clubs, social
events. The streets - less so. No one will sue you if you politely start a
conversation with a woman in a bar, that's not what this is about.

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staticelf
I understand that, but what I am saying is that it is what is going to be
about as well. Why is it even common to think that is automatically harassment
because you are starting a conversation with a woman in a street or grocery
store?

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joelbluminator
Generally, yelling things to women from a few meters is not starting a
conversation. I wouldn't say it's automatically harassment to approach women
in public areas but you should be very careful about how you are doing that
and be ever more polite. Most women want to get from point A to point B and
not be picked up.

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staticelf
I didn't say anything about any yelling. I don't know about you, but I don't
expect to pick up the women I talk to even if I start the conversation out of
a sexual interest.

