
Kraft Reveals Revamped Mac and Cheese, 50M Boxes Later - troydavis
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/21/business/media/kraft-reveals-revamped-mac-and-cheese-50-million-boxes-later.html
======
jedberg
We did the same thing at reddit when we upgraded the search system.

First we put a little survey on every search result that said "Are you
satisfied with these results? yes/no". After we collected enough data, we
changed the entire search backend out, but told no one.

After a few months of collecting data showing the satisfaction go from ~70% to
~90%, we made a blog post explaining what we did.

Here's the real kicker though that makes it different from Kraft -- we didn't
say that we had done it months ago, so we kept getting comments about how it
was "so much better this week vs. last week".

We did that a few times. When we moved the site to EC2, we announced it months
after the fact, and people would claim to have noticed the "sudden change".

It's an interesting look into the human psyche.

~~~
mbesto
Make no mistake about it, this is clearly a marketing ploy by Kraft's ad
agency. They are battling the minds of consumers who are (as of recent)
continually seeing companies change ingredients and then be marketed to
because it's "preservatives are bad...now with less preservatives!", with an
undesirable side effect of "hmmm, but it tastes different". Coke Zero is a
great example of this effect.

I'm not so sure Reddit's system is that similar. Reddit had a serious issue
with search functionality not reaching the desired effect, and was easily
circumvented by using Google search directly on reddit.

In reddit's case it was about completing a task and reaching a goal ("I now
can search for something and it works"), for Kraft this is about perception
and desire ("This tastes good!").

~~~
nether
Try dumping a can of tuna into your Kraft™ Mac & Cheese. Delicious.

~~~
dhimes
I also add a can of cream of mushroom soup. It was a staple when I was in
college. I named it Mancaroni and tried to feed it to my three boys. They
weren't buying it. There wasn't enough hot sauce or Old Bay in the house to
get them to eat it. But I like it!

~~~
frogpelt
In addition to the tuna?

~~~
dhimes
Yes. EDIT: It's condensed, and I don't add milk or anything. I believe this
recipe was on the side of the box of Mac and Cheese at some point, probably
long, long, ago.

------
symfoniq
Having young children, there's almost always a box of macaroni and cheese in
the house.

My kids, who fancy themselves mac & cheese connoisseurs, started complaining
about the taste of Kraft a couple of months ago.

So now when Kraft advertises on TV that they changed their mac & cheese and
nobody noticed, my eight- and six-year-old just roll their eyes. I suppose the
upside is, they're already learning that you can't believe advertising.

~~~
gambiting
I keep saying to myself that I need to go to one of those world food sections
at my local supermarket and buy a box of Kraft Mac and Cheese to try it,but I
always forget - is it really worth it?

~~~
logfromblammo
If you are paying more than the equivalent of US$1 per box, no.

Kraft Mac & Cheese is the spiritual equivalent of top ramen noodles,
artificial cheese flavor.

There is no intrinsic American cultural value to it. Many of us do grant it
some nostalgia value, because we grew up without a lot of money, and it was,
and still is, cheap and filling food for poor people. A suitable protein
accompaniment is a can of chunk light tuna (solid albacore is for rich folks),
hot dogs (aka frankfurters) cut into coin-sized slices, diced bologna slices,
Spam, or a hard-boiled egg. To drink, mix up some unsweetened Kool-Aid with
3/4 the ordinary amount of added sugar. If you are feeling flush this month,
you may also have a slice of dry white toast with some leftover schmaltz on
it.

~~~
Symbiote
It's actually an English recipe.

Here is an 1859 version of the recipe, from _Mrs Beeton 's Book of Household
Management_.

[http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/10136/pg10136-images.htm...](http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/10136/pg10136-images.html#id09333q&f=false)

And here's the original, from 1786 in _The Experienced English Housekeeper_ :
[http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.rsmcze;view=1up;se...](http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.rsmcze;view=1up;seq=277)

~~~
logfromblammo
Kraft Mac & Cheese bears little resemblance to anything you might achieve at
home using your pantry staples and a recipe book. That is, unless you have an
industrial-sized pasta extruder at home, and standing orders for sodium
citrate and annatto coloring by the ton.

It cleverly evokes the _idea_ of better food, so that what you are actually
eating seems somehow less disappointing. There are other brands that reproduce
more faithfully the concept of the original recipe, but they may cost 2-5
times as much as Kraft's.

Also, a box of Kraft Mac & Cheese can be prepared in one saucepan on one stove
burner or hot plate in less than 15 minutes, spent mostly waiting for the
water to boil, whereas "real" macaroni and cheese recipes may involve cheese
graters, pasta strainers, multiple saucepans, and maybe even a casserole dish
and time in the oven. This point may be important if you have to feed your
kids quickly after school, before going to your second job, as many heads of
household in the U.S. are required to do in order to fund the monthly budget.
(The kids might be able to eat both breakfast and lunch at their schools,
depending on the relative affluence of the neighborhood.)

------
kabdib
... and this is why people with severe allergies _always always always_ read
the ingredients list, even if the packaging has not changed. And _always_
carry emergency medication.

~~~
jerf
Since I've discovered I've had celiac (the real deal) ~6 years ago, I've read
a lot more ingredient labels than I used to, and I can vouch for the fact that
food formulations change more than you'd expect without fanfare. For all that
you might find "gluten free!" splattered all over a lot of things, I can tell
you there have also been a lot of foods that have silently gone gluten-free
over the years, along with trying to minimize their use of the other major
allergens.

This includes even very big name brands, such as Doritos. For a long time,
Doritos was gluten free in nearly all of its flavors _except_ its "default"
Nacho Cheese flavor. Suddenly and silently, it went gluten free. I don't know
exactly when because I wasn't looking. I was actually trying to show someone
that only that flavor had the wheat in it, except the bag went and
contradicted my claim. I may have missed it but I don't think they ever
publicized it, or if they did, it wasn't much. (Contrast, for instance, Corn
Chex which has talked about being gluten free on its box now for years after
it changed.)

Imitation crab meat is another example; it has gone from reliably containing
wheat, to unreliably being gluten free depending on brand, to what appears to
be converging on generally _not_ containing wheat, just in the past few years.
I'll still be checking labels for a while on that one, though.

(And before the inevitable commenter pops up: The things that I do not know
whether they contain wheat are, pretty much by definition, the highly-
processed foods high in refined carbs, so my examples have a selection bias in
that direction. I do not eat either of the things I mention often or in
quantity. But I'm not always 100% in charge of my food environment and it is
nice at someone else's party to be able to eat _something_ sometimes.)

~~~
eveningcoffee
_I can tell you there have also been a lot of foods that have silently gone
gluten-free over the years, along with trying to minimize their use of the
other major allergens._

Good find!

But as have been indicated here
[http://www.bbc.com/news/health-35727244](http://www.bbc.com/news/health-35727244)
, this may be counterproductive.

~~~
blairanderson
You're conflating disease and allergy.

~~~
Ensorceled
Disease, allergy and sensitivity.

My friend has celiac, my co-worker is mildly allergic to wheat, I'm sensitive
to gluten.

Too much gluten makes me gassy so I avoid large quantities, but that's pretty
much it. My co-worker breaks out in hives. My friend is in for a world of
hurt.

------
dhimes
Whoever thought of this must be a parent. This is brilliant, and exactly like
changes you make when you feed picky eaters (and they probably know that they
are a staple food for picky eaters).

------
salgernon
Well, some of us connoisseurs we're prepared for this change since 2013:

    
    
      http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2013/11/01/242412024/kraft-dims-that-mac-and-cheese-artificially-orange-glow
    

This isn't as radical a transition as "New Coke", and we haven't had to raid
stores to build a stockpile like we did in the early 80s.

~~~
dspillett
For people who don't know the "New Coke" story,
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuMxXw9TeE4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuMxXw9TeE4)
is an interesting watch.

Americans take their soda _very_ seriously (or at least did in the 80s). It
makes the hoo-ha over Kraft buying Cadbury, a British staple similar to how
Coke is/was an American one, and the changes they made since (some of them
within days of the purchase despite having promised the government otherwise
to get the deal to go ahead) look like a storm in a tea-cup.

------
nyangosling
I think this story is actually a pretty incredible one. Just logistically it's
a very interesting story that they were able to keep their collective
corporate mouth shut--and even though it seems they're gearing up to milk the
marketing effort now, that they did this without immediate payout in terms of
brand marketing is surprising. And it's not like we're talking about a
processed food brand with a million variants on the shelf either--we're
talking an iconic, one-note Kraft dinner.

I'd inquire about the taste, if it's any different, etc, but I haven't had
Kraft in, uh, a long ass time.

~~~
empath75
It tastes of butter, salt, and poverty, same as always.

~~~
salgernon
In the 80s, we always referred to it as "reganomics" as in "oh no, not
reganomics for dinner again!"

I seem to recall a massive cheese redistribution campaign back then. And
ketchup being declared a vegetable for purposes of school lunches.

------
kingosticks
Are Kraft and Mondelez the same company? They now own British chocolate
company Cadbury and have received a lot of criticism for changing recipes
there (amongst other things). [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/food-and-
drink/features/7-ways-ca...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/food-and-
drink/features/7-ways-cadbury-has-been-trashed0/)

~~~
anexprogrammer
Kraft renamed themselves Mondelez after spinning off grocery brands who now
use the Kraft name - Philadelphia cheese etc.

Mondelez are well on the way to destroying the Cadbury brand here.

One of the things Kraft made a big deal of during the takeover was promising
to keep a particular UK plant open. 7 days after finalisation they announced
the plant's closure.

Creme Eggs are now revolting, It's not even Cadbury choclate any more, but
some sugary cheap fake chocolate. Being egg shaped, they were commonly sold in
packs of 6, now sold in 5s - same price. They're also markedly smaller.

They've fiddled with most products, generally made them noticeably worse, and
shrunk the sizes of nearly everything.

I buy other makes these days.

~~~
checker
According to Wikipedia, they transitioned from chocolate (which legally in the
US must only contain cocoa butter fats) to "cocoa-flavored", which can contain
less or no cocoa butter and includes cheaper fats such as vegetable oil.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadbury_Creme_Egg#Changes_to_p...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadbury_Creme_Egg#Changes_to_product)
[http://www.latimes.com/la-oe-
may19apr19-story.html](http://www.latimes.com/la-oe-may19apr19-story.html)

~~~
anexprogrammer
That would explain why the texture is wrong then. Best word I can find is
"slimy", and is too sweet which is quite an achievement in a product that's
80% fondant.

------
AdmiralAsshat
This strategy is how I imagine the "least painful" transition from init to
systemd in a distro would go: someone would make the change, tell everyone to
update, and then ask if anyone noticed.

~~~
oftenwrong
Linux users tend to be aware of update contents. They read the changelogs,
review the list of packages that will be updated, etc.

I've been using a mac at my new job, and a dialog box popped up today asking
if I wanted to update. The options were something like "Not now" and "Update
all". How am I supposed to know if I want to update if I don't even know
what's going to be updated?

~~~
gknoy
The App Store's "Updates" tab shows which apps are getting updated, and can
even show build notes.

------
npatrick04
I actually noticed a couple of months ago that it now takes 5-6 minutes to
cook instead of ~4 to get the same consistency. That threw me off since I am
the primary mac&cheese maker for my kids.

------
JoeAltmaier
Maybe they worried too much. Even though the change was _written on the box_ ,
nobody noticed or commented. That's how much people cared.

------
rocky1138
I'm fairly certain this change came to Canada first but unlike the USA, it was
announced. Kraft launched a new version of Kraft Dinner (what you Yanks call
"Mac and Cheese") with the preservatives replaced by natural things last year.
I thought it tasted fine and was happy that it's even a little healthier.

~~~
runin2k1
There was a change.org petition by "Food Babe" to get this changed due to a
lot of bunk arguments. Replacing a tiny amount of a very common food dye is
not going to affect the healthiness in any substantial way.

~~~
JohnTHaller
Food Babe: "When your body is in the air, at a seriously high altitude, your
body under goes some serious pressure. Just think about it – Airplanes thrive
in places we don’t. You are traveling in a pressurized cabin, and when your
body is pressurized, it gets really compressed!"

That line from one of her articles sums up her thought process perfectly.

~~~
parennoob
I agree that Food Babe makes a lot of rather silly arguments "That ingredient
in Subway bread is also used in car tires!", etc. but she _has_ drawn
attention to some unnecessary additive choices (like 4-Mel in Starbucks
pumpkin spice lattes), which I think is helpful. Even if the additive is not
harmful, as a consumer, it's good to have more knowledge about what Starbucks
puts in their drinks.

Having watchdogs like the Food Babe keeps companies a bit more on their toes
about the health impacts of their additives than they would be otherwise.

~~~
runin2k1
And why is that an unnecessary additive? Is it actually harmful?

A quick google seems to indicate that is just the same inciteful(note: not
insightful) nonsense to get page views.

Not to mention the fact that she is targeting a drink where the primary
ingredient(s) are _actually_ bad for you in the quantities they are served in
unless you are already following a fairly well-balanced diet.

It is insane to single out minutiae that are orders of magnitude less
impactful than the huge sugar bomb that is the core of the food/beverage.

------
rplnt
I don't remember new Pepsi, but new Coke had a huge backslash which lead to
pulling the product off the market, reversing back to original formula. And if
I remember correctly, this original Coke, dubbed Coca-Cola Classic saw much
better sales than the same coke did before that. Making people wonder if the
new coke fiasco wasn't intentional.

~~~
jhawk28
They didn't actually use the original formula. They used the opportunity to
switch from Cane sugar to Corn Syrup. Since people didn't have the ability to
taste the difference any more, no one noticed. This let them cut the cost of a
major ingredient which then translated into profit. They gained a LOT more
from the failed product.

~~~
brianmersenne
The sweetener isn't part of the Coca-Cola formula (or more specifically, isn't
part of the Coca-Cola concentrate). Coca-Cola provides unsweetened concentrate
to independent bottlers, and the bottlers add high fructose corn syrup, sugar,
or both during the bottling process. Some US Coca-Cola bottlers still only use
sugar for sweetener.

~~~
ksherlock
Ahh, that's interesting. I remember Coke (KO) bought out the US
distribution/bottling from Coca Cola Enterprises (CCE) in 2010 but Wikipedia
says 5-10% of US Coke is still bottled by a handful of independent bottlers.

Allegedly, Kosher For Passover Coke (which should be available soon if not
already) uses sugar.

~~~
cbr
Yes, Coke that's kosher for Passover can't contain grain, including corn, so
they use sugar.

Some history: [http://time.com/3769657/coke-passover-
kosher/](http://time.com/3769657/coke-passover-kosher/)

------
dustinmoorenet
They did this because yellow #5 and #6 are banned in other countries. It is
still a box of processed food.

[http://www.examiner.com/article/kraft-mac-and-cheese-
ingredi...](http://www.examiner.com/article/kraft-mac-and-cheese-ingredients-
banned-outside-u-s)

------
wmeredith
In case anyone else actually wanted to see the commercial:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3eFbpyNRiQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3eFbpyNRiQ)

------
mfoy_
Interesting idea, I guess a tech comparison would be revamping the server side
code considerably but not making an announcement so users wouldn't think they
had to be on the lookout for bugs / quirks that weren't originally present. If
you test well you could 100% overhaul the back end with not a single end user
the wiser. I suppose if you announced a "major overhaul" scheduled for some
time then users may be wary or hesitant to engage with the platform thinking
hat they should expect intermittent outages or broken features.

~~~
hultner
I've done this, went from a Windows Server C# based backend to Linux servers
with a completely new backend in Java. Nothing changed on the frontend and no
announcement, some users gave feedback that the application seemed snappier
though but they were never aware of what happened "under the hood".

------
mikestew
This might (or might not) work for Kraft, but let me tell a cautionary tale.
Those that hang on my every word have read me mention that I train dogs at the
local animal shelter. Some dogs need to be taught how to be civilized members
of society before adoption, so that's what my wife and I help with. Food is a
great motivator, and we used to use these logs of dog food (Natural Balance,
for those that care). Chop 'em up into tiny little cubes, makes a great and
inexpensive training treat. Dogs love them.

Well, dogs _used_ to love them. You see, Natural Balance changed _their_
formula without telling anyone. I'm going to guess that the most common use
for Natural Balance dog food is to make treats, not a meal for dogs. The new
formula crumbles when you try to cut it, and here's the important part: dogs
won't eat it. So Natural Balance dog food is no longer fit for the most common
purpose I see in personal observation. No trainer, pro or amateur, that I know
of uses it anymore. The hoity-toity major pet food chain in Seattle no longer
carries it.

No worries, Red Barn makes a tasty equivalent, so we use that now. _But here
's the kicker_: even if Natural Balance pulled a Coca-Cola and put the old
formula back, they've still lost us for an indefinite period (if not
permanently). Why? Because we'd never know. We found an adequate substitute,
Natural Balance is no longer on our radar, and it's not like The Dog Food Blog
is in my RSS so I'd know when NB came to their senses.

One might get away with this with people food, as kids are more likely to bug
Daddy with "but I want _Kraft_!" than a dog is to bug their handler with
"What's this Red Barn crap? I want Natural Balance!" But if kids won't eat it,
as implied by other comments, then Dad might try another brand, the kids love
it even more than Kraft, and Kraft just falls off a family's radar. Because it
seems to me that Kraft, as with Coke before them, assumes a brand loyalty that
might or might not exist.

------
jrs235
So apparently (I thought Heinz, that was what the website mentions) Kraft
(they're who responded to my feedback with nothing but boiler marketing "cost
of ingredients" response) removed the Golden Flavor Nugget from Wyler's Mrs.
Grass Soup Mix. This is what that soup was KNOWN for! The Golden Nugget! They
got rid of it! Raise the price and keep your differentiator. In my feedback I
told them I was returning several unopened boxes to the store since I
bought/buy their soup because of the golden egg. I returned the unopened
boxes.

"Dear Mr. [my name] ,

Thank you for taking the time to contact us regarding Mrs. Grass Homestyle
Noodle & Vegetable Soups. In an effort to continue offering a better product
to our consumer, we've removed the Golden Egg Flavor Ball from our Mrs. Grass
Homestyle Noodle & Vegetable Soups. The Golden Egg Flavor Ball will no longer
be reflected on the packaging. One reason for package changes is to
consolidate and reduce packaging. When we're able to do this, it benefits all
of us as well as the environment. We also change our packaging in an effort to
bring quality products to our consumers at the most affordable price. We all
know that prices are increasing on everything from gasoline and corn to
automobiles and houses. As costs go up, companies often find that they must
raise prices to maintain high quality. The alternative to raising the price of
any given product is to offer the product in a slightly smaller size. When we
reduce the size of a product, it allows us to offer the product to our
consumer at the best affordable price point. I appreciate you sharing your
concerns with us. I will be sure to forward your comments to the Marketing and
Production staff. It is our goal to continue to offer a variety of high-
quality foods at the lowest possible cost to consumers. Thank you for
contacting us and please add our site to your favorites and visit us again
soon!

Sincerely,

Julian Franklin Director, Consumer Relations"

[http://www.wylers.com/Gdetails/mrs_grass_home.aspx](http://www.wylers.com/Gdetails/mrs_grass_home.aspx)

------
kieranhunt
I must recommend the fantastic YouTube series, BoxMac:
[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CLH1Tx2EyXE](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CLH1Tx2EyXE)

------
forrestthewoods
Plot Twist: They haven't actually changed anything and will silently roll out
the REAL change 6 months from now.

(Not really. But that'd be a cool story too.)

------
VeryVito
I doubt there's a soccer mom in the world who didn't know this had happened
already; my wife had been expecting it for months when it finally switched.

Other manufacturers are doing similar things. In fact, Trix Cereal has quietly
switched away from artificial colors recently, and other General Mills "kids"
cereals are expected to follow suit soon.

------
anexprogrammer
I'm more than a little surprised it's so successful. Macaroni & cheese barely
takes any longer to make properly than to warm up a pan of bought.

OK, add a few mins if you want to grill it with cheese topping, which improves
it no end :)

~~~
kingnothing
There's a decent amount of effort involved in making a roux base for a cheese
sauce compared to squeezing a packet of cheese-product into a pan. It's not a
huge effort, but it's still there if you aren't accustomed to cooking much
more than frozen meals and prepackaged food.

------
zodPod
This was pretty genius! I'm looking forward to trying the "new formula" even
though it won't taste any different haha

------
pkamb
Glad to see Craig Kilborn getting some work.

------
dpeck
Canadians are anxiously awaiting the shipping of Kraft Klassic :)

------
PaulHoule
Do they still put Milk Protein Concentrate in it?

------
junto
I really don't get why Americans are so drawn to such a nasty processed food.
Italians must cringe at the sight of such an abomination.

