

At least 9 reported dead, more than 100 injured near Ukraine's parliament - emhart
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv/renewed-violence-breaks-out-today-near-ukraines-parliament-at-least-one-injured-336993.html

======
austenallred
I'm following this on behalf of [http://grasswire.com](http://grasswire.com)
\- and a lot has changed since this article was written. I'll update this
comment as frequently as possible.

* Update 18: More protesters entering EuroMaidan camp right now, many carrying tires. They've burned tires during these clashes to create a smokescreen.

* Update 17: Ukraine to restrict traffic to Kyiv starting at midnight tonight

* Update 16: Armored vehicles are entering the square. One has been set on fire by protestors.

* Update 15: An emergency meeting has been called between Yanykovytch and opposition leaders.

* Update 14: Protestors have united in singing national anthem of Ukraine as flashbang grenades, rubber and plastic bullets ring out. [http://www.livestream.com/activistworldnewsnow](http://www.livestream.com/activistworldnewsnow)

* Update 13: Police reinforcements have arrived, barricade has been torn down. Protestors using laser pointers to blind police. Rubber bullets being fired constantly.

* Update 12: Police storming with water cannons and rubber bullets

* Update 11: Last few livestreams: [http://www.livestream.com/activistworldnewsnow](http://www.livestream.com/activistworldnewsnow)

* Update 10: More streams going dead. This one is still live - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbQC7_TNQPw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbQC7_TNQPw)

* Update 9: The militia is storming the square. (personal commentary - this will not be good).

* Update 8: Chaos is breaking out. Fireworks and explosions everywhere. Livestream: [http://www.livestream.com/activistworldnewsnow](http://www.livestream.com/activistworldnewsnow)

* Update 7: Better livestream: [http://www.ustream.tv/channel/live-action-spilno-tv](http://www.ustream.tv/channel/live-action-spilno-tv)

* Update 6: 10 police buses and 3 water cannons are now waiting on Institutsksa street

* Update 5: Militia making loudspeaker announcement at Institutska st. "Please leave Maidan as an anti-terrorist operation will take place"

* Update 4: Live feeds are disappearing. We're worried the Internet will be cut soon.

* Update 3: BTR/machine guns on a tripod spotted at the bank "Khreschatyk"

* Update 2: Riot forces are blocking all paths to and from the central square (Maidan)

* Update 1: the square is now surrounded by military forces

* Just a few minutes ago the promised "ceasefire" ended, and police are moving toward the square.

* Livestream: [http://www.livestream.com/activistworldnewsnow](http://www.livestream.com/activistworldnewsnow)

* Two BTRs were recently heard.

* The main pro-protestor channel, Channel 5, had its signal cut

* Video of military APCs arriving in Kyiv, heading toward downtown [http://t.co/ujaGa62OIg](http://t.co/ujaGa62OIg)

~~~
650REDHAIR
So these are military or police BTRs/APCs?

I was under the impression that the military was staying out and would likely
intervene on behalf of the public and not the police.

~~~
sigsergv
Police. Military forces keep neutrality for now.

------
fidotron
The single oddest thing about these protests is to outsiders the whole thing
seems utterly impenetrable. It seems really hard to tell who here could be
said to be supporting or subverting democracy. Who are the puppets? Who is
making the decisions?

Obviously the brutality involved is extreme, but the protesters causes don't
exactly make them sound like a bunch of angels either. It seems like the enemy
of my enemy is my friend, until they're in power, when they become my enemy
again on a massive scale.

~~~
IgorPartola
There have been numerous discussions of this on HN a few weeks ago. Basically,
nobody is exactly a champion of freedom here, but some are way more evil than
others:

The current government is heavily influenced by Russia. It is utterly corrupt
and is trying to help Russia exert further influence over Ukraine the land and
the people. There is no question in my mind that it should be let go. Given
Yanukovych's track record, he should never have been elected or allowed to
become president and there is very clear evidence that he is abusing his power
for personal gain.

Now, the protesters are really two different people: there is the politicians
who are trying to gain power and then there are the common people who are
simply fed up with the corruption. IMO, at least some of the political figures
involved in the opposition might be only slightly less corrupt than the
current government. I have no idea what they'd really be like if they came
into power but I have never seen an honest politician in Ukraine.

The people can be faulted, once again IMO, only for having a lack of vision.
They want Yanukovych gone, but they don't know what real democracy feels like
so they are not going to get much done beyond that. I don't believe them to
cause the violence, so much as react to it.

Edit: My friend's opinion is that Yanukovych simply cannot give up the power.
For him it's quite literally a matter of life and death; as in, if he no
longer has the protection afforded to him by being the president, he, his
family, and anyone who was affiliated with him will be in danger of coming to
physical harm.

~~~
guard-of-terra
Hi again. To quote myself:

"The current government is not a puppet but actually an _actor_ who tries to
extract bonuses from multiple parties by raising stakes."

Multiple parties are USA, EU and Russia.

Of course, talking about pre-protests situation.

~~~
IgorPartola
Sure. Yanukovych is playing for his own survival. It is important to remember
that he is NOT doing anything for the people unless it helps him personally.
If the Ukrainian people benefit, it's a side effect, but not a goal.

He is a puppet in that Putin has lots of influence on him personally and on
the Ukrainian economy in general, but I suppose you could say that he has his
own agenda: to steal as much money as possible as quickly as possible and not
get killed in the process.

~~~
dfkf
You sure know a lot about what happens inside Putin's or Yanukovich's head..
Are you their private psychologist, do you have crystall ball or you're just
making this stuff up to push your agenda?

~~~
aaronem
It's amazing what some understanding of history can do for you. In particular,
it can confer the ability to make surprisingly accurate surmises regarding the
behavior of public figures.

------
JonnieCache
Does anyone have insight into russia's possible role in all this? It does seem
to give them a very handy excuse to consolidate their cherished buffer zone.

EDIT: by "them" I'm referring to the russian establishment, not the people in
general.

EDIT2: I suspected this post was a bad idea. I _really_ don't mean to accuse a
whole nation of maliciousness. I just want a little guidance in the
geopolitical wilderness of mirrors. This probably isn't the time to be asking.

~~~
astine
I don't know if Russia is responsible for anything that's happened so far.
This fight is largely between ethnic Ukrainians and ethnic Russians living in
Ukraine. If this escalates too far, Russia will intervene and probably on
behalf of Yanukovych.

~~~
JonnieCache
My understanding is that ukraine was veering towards closer alliance with
europe before all this started. That makes the sudden emergence of violent
uprising, possibly necessitating american-style "intervention" on the part of
the russian government rather convenient. If that does come to pass, I will be
extremely suspicious.

Of course this is just ill-advised idle speculation.

~~~
memracom
The funny thing is that RUSSIA is veering towards closer alliance with Europe,
and continues to do so. An awful lot of the changes that Putin has brought to
Russia are exactly the kind of things that the EU demands of its member
countries. But the other former Soviet republics are all lagging behind.

~~~
IgorPartola
This makes sense. Russia seeks to continue and expand control over at least
some ex-USSR countries of which Ukraine is the second largest (Russia being
the largest). Putin wants to further Russia's trade with the EU because it's
profitable, but he does not want Ukraine, Belarus, etc. to do the same
independently. From his point of view it's best if Russia trades with the EU,
while Ukraine trades with Russia. That way Moscow controls exactly what
Ukraine can and cannot get/do.

------
IgorPartola
This is really crossing a mental line for me. I have a friend who lives in
Kyiv who is thankfully OK, but it's definitely precarious. I am really hoping
this situation deescalates quickly and a resolution is found.

------
TuxLyn
This is now blocked. PDF on Scribd > [http://www.scribd.com/doc/207763317/At-
least-four-reported-d...](http://www.scribd.com/doc/207763317/At-least-four-
reported-dead-more-than-100-injured)

~~~
dindresto
In which country/countries is it blocked? Just wondering, because it's working
in Germany.

~~~
TuxLyn
Actually it works in US again ^_^ That weird.

------
twobits
Is it just me, or is this just eu/us vs russia?

~~~
TuxLyn
You've just noticed that?

------
whatevsbro
_acting Interior Minister Vitaliy Zakharchenko issued a public warning at 4
p.m. to protesters to clear the streets within two hours: “If by 6 p.m. the
lawlessness doesn 't cease, we shall be forced to used all legal means to
bring order.”_

So, protesting against a government that remains in place clearly against The
People's will is "lawlessness", but killing and hurting/maiming protesters to
shut them the fuck up is Lawfulness (and Good, naturally)?

In summary: The people do not want the current government to be in power, and
the current government brutalizes them into submission, aaaand.. Yay
democracy, Yay governments, Yay rulers?

Here's a set of simple rules to follow:

    
    
        1) Lawful = Good
        2) Unlawful = Bad
        3) Anything your rulers do = Lawful
        4) Anything you do to oppose your rulers = Unlawful

~~~
cpncrunch
From what I can see, most of the violence seems to be perpetrated by the
protesters against the police. No matter how bad the government is, violence
isn't the way to change anything (especially not when you are dealing with
Putin).

~~~
whatevsbro
_" Back to the voting booths, peasants! Wait patiently for your next illusory
chance to affect how you're coerced!"_

~~~
cpncrunch
Not quite. I was more thinking along the lines of a velvet revolution.
Violence doesn't necessarily work for changing governments. Look at Syria and
Egypt.

------
memracom
I don't think that Russia cares about a few extremists rioting in a small area
in the downtown area of Ukraine.

Russia wins either way.

If the Ukraine ends up on the EU accession path, they will just end up
destabilizing the EU itself.

