
Half of lonely people think no one will notice if something bad happens to them - laurex
https://www.thesun.ie/fabulous/3439832/half-of-lonely-people-think-no-one-will-notice-if-something-bad-happens-to-them-experts-say/
======
digitalsushi
Sometimes I feel that it can be a lucrative trap to become invested in a
single person, and then accumulate expectations that far outweigh the
responsible obligations of any friendship.

As I have gotten older, a pattern that is working much better for me is the
campfire model - I just try to keep a metaphorical campfire going, for people
traveling through this life to stop and warm themselves upon while I tend it.
I cannot know which direction people are traveling from, or to, or how long
their journey has been or will be. But all people need to warm their calloused
hands and feet, and I can keep this fire with a bed of rosy coals.

Sometimes someone will stop at my fire and warm themselves without my ever
having paid attention, but to them it may have meant all the difference in the
world. By keeping this obligation in mind, to simply expect people to need a
place to sit a spell, I can at least believe I am helping.

The campfire is a nice way for me to remember we're all suffering, that not a
one of us is unique to loneliness. Because sometimes that person who sits down
at your fire is the person you have been waiting for, and only by making a
seat for them were you able to ever meet.

~~~
waffle_ss
Could you elaborate more concretely about this campfire model?

edit: Asking because I'm having a hard time visualizing the metaphor applied
to reality. Do you find/make friends ("campers"?) differently? Would they
consider you a friend, or are these relationships more broad with less depth?
How does maintaining the fire relate to maintaining friendships? Are you just
a support person handing out favors with little expectation of reciprocity? If
so does that feel fulfilling compared to deeply investing in a smaller number
of people?

~~~
thinkharder
I had a good friend who just had open "hang out" time every day after work in
his garage. There was a group of about 30 friends who might stop by any time
between 5 and 8 PM, have a beer, hang out and BS. Sometimes it was just Paul
and 1 or 2 others, sometimes 15 people showed up, sometimes Paul wasn't even
there, but the garage was always open (if you had the code). I used to go
almost every day between work and home, it's how i made about half the friends
I have now. It was also where weekend plans got made and many a
hunting/fishing/camping trip got planned there.

That's over now and I really miss it. Buddy had some health problems and ended
up with an overwhelming opiate addiction and just stopped hanging out with
anyone. Some of the friends still get together for a weekend poker game but
it's not the same. It was so cool to have a place you could go hang out after
work where you knew everyone was fun to be around and they liked having you
around. You never know who would be there or what the conversation would be
but it was always a good time.

I've tried to get the same thing going myself, but have never been successful.
I'm not sure how you get that started. Once it's going, it's self-sustaining,
but you have to reach a critical mass of participants and has to occur really
regularly, even daily. I think maybe it takes a very specific kind of person
to be the host.

Anyway, that's what the OP's campfire analogy made me think of. I really miss
it...

~~~
mirimir
> I've tried to get the same thing going myself, but have never been
> successful. I'm not sure how you get that started. Once it's going, it's
> self-sustaining, but you have to reach a critical mass of participants and
> has to occur really regularly, even daily. I think maybe it takes a very
> specific kind of person to be the host.

You don't need to be the host. Indeed, the host can be some organization. A
place of worship, if that appeals. Or a Unitarian "Church", if you're not
religious. Or a hackerspace. Or really, any sort of interest group. Even the
neighborhood bar, if it's a good one.

And maybe, once you get to know enough people, you can host parties, and
people will show up.

~~~
BurningFrog
As an atheist, I do envy the religious people their weekly meetups!

~~~
Jtsummers
Trivia works. I go to two trivias (M/W) almost every week. I have a group of
about 6 people that show up (random which subset) to each (not the same
people) to play on my team, sometimes more (used to be a lot more but some
people moved). And the other teams are people I knew before going there or
have come to know since starting. Pleasant way to spend a couple hours a
couple times a week. A bit of hanging out, a bit of competitive fun, and more
hanging out.

~~~
tomjakubowski
Can you just randomly drop in solo or with another person to a trivia night?
I've been to a few, but only ever as a sub on an "established" team.

~~~
Jtsummers
I'm pretty welcoming and gregarious, I have had random people join my team
before when they asked (my teammates were less comfortable at first, but
relaxed and welcomed them later). This will definitely depend on the crowd. It
may be easier to start your own team (or playing solo at the bar) and just
start getting to know the other teams for a while first before asking to join
them.

It also depends on the location. One is a restaurant, people are generally
less welcoming to random folks sitting at their dining table (unfortunately).
The other location is a bar. It's _much_ easier to just join a random team.
Find 3 people sitting at the bar and ask if you can join them. Or, like the
last folks that joined us, find a table with several empty seats and ask to
join them.

------
e40
My mom (who lives alone and is approaching 80) and I have an agreement: she
emails me every morning with "hey" in the subject and no body if she doesn't
feel like it. If I don't get an email, I call.

Since we started doing this (years), I feel more connected to her, and we
often have conversations that last a while. I can't remember the last time I
got a blank email.

~~~
nickthegreek
I make it a point to call my mom on my 15 minute drive home instead of popping
on another podcast. After my father passed, it took me a few years to reflect
on the loneliness that she could be feeling. She looks forwards to these calls
and I know that they provide a good connection for both of us.

I am considering getting her an apple watch in the next year or two for the
emergency call features and fall detection.

~~~
jpster
Apple Watch has fall detection?

~~~
nickthegreek
Series 4 does. If a fall is detected and the watch is not interacted with, it
will SMS your emergency contact and call emergency services.

------
kiloreux
I don't think it's the "notice" part here. It's the "caring" part. To know
that if something happens to you all your relatives and friends won't care or
feel anything for losing you is the part that hurts, as for noticing. For sure
they'll notice.

~~~
thaumasiotes
The question isn't whether people will notice if you die. It's whether people
will notice if something bad happens. It's not a euphemism:

> One in nine didn't feel like they had anyone in their lives who they could
> rely on in a crisis.

It's entirely unsurprising that lonely people think other people won't notice
if they're in a crisis -- that's what being lonely is.

There's a song called "How Do You Get That Lonely?", about a boy who committed
suicide, in which the last lines of the chorus are:

    
    
        How do you feel so empty
        you want to let it all go
        How do you get that lonely
        and nobody know
    

But this has never made any sense to me -- surely, if the problem is that
you're so lonely that the best option available to you is killing yourself,
it's to be expected that other people weren't familiar with your situation.

~~~
whatshisface
> _you 're so lonely that the best option available to you is killing
> yourself_

The best option available would always be to meet a random person on the
street because ending up with a bad person would not be as bad as dying.

~~~
jstanley
People who agree would obviously do that instead of killing themselves, so
you're just preaching to the choir.

~~~
whatshisface
My point is that suicide isn't usually a rational decision.

~~~
thaumasiotes
That depends entirely on your evaluation criteria. Your point is only that you
don't want to commit suicide. Other people may.

~~~
whatshisface
Most people who commit suicide are not accurately judging their situation, due
to a long term mental illness like depression, or often due to a momentary
emotional upset. Just because someone "wants" to do something doesn't mean
that it would actually serve their interests, and it doesn't even mean that
they would want it one hour in the future.

------
uberlonely
I'm positive if I died no one would notice for at least 2-3 months, maybe more

I live abroad. I have no truly close friends. The closest friend has 2 kids so
I see him maybe once every 2 months. My family is 7000+ miles away. I talk to
them about once every 3-8 months. The biggest issue is the time difference.
Those times when I think "I feel like calling" it's always the wrong time so
it's usually only when I'm up at 3am and instead of going to sleep I tell
myself "Ok, I guess I should stay up another hour to call".

I'm self employed. 80% of my expenses are automated. (should be 100% really)

So, if I died a couple of friends might think I was rude for not answering
their messages on slack or fb messenger but it would be quite a while before
someone came and checked. Unless there was a smell or something coming from
the apartment there really is no one I can think of that would check up on me.

Yes, I want to fix this situation. Stupidly I don't know how. I'm > 50yrs old.
When I go out most people are < 40yrs old. Of course we get along but being in
different places in your life can make it hard to relate the same way that
people in the same place in life relate. I go to meetups and know a few
people's names but haven't made any "friends".

~~~
justaguyhere
_Stupidly I don 't know how_

If you like, we can become email friends, just to keep in touch. I may or may
be able to relate to you, but I promise to try sincerely. I see myself going
the same route, so...

On a meta level:

Do you have any ideas on how to think about situations like this? Surely,
there must be millions of people who feel the same?

~~~
uberlonely
I actually don't have any ideas but I do think there are at least 2
opportunities.

1\. A better meetup.com

I have no idea if there is a way to make a better one so maybe there is no
solution. What I find though is few meetups are actually that good. I have no
idea how to make them better. Sponsor them? Hire organizers?

I know this is a hard problem. For example there was that "dinewithus.com"
service and I guess the biggest issue is odds are low that the people you end
up dinning with are actually people you want to be around.

2\. A better dating service

I see 2 problems with dating services today. (a) too many women get scared
away from too many DTF messages which reduces the pool greatly (b) too many
people not trying hard enough or not putting in the effort or unsure how to
get the fire started. Examples are profiles with no info. Profiles with no
pictures. Profiles with generic info "I like dining and travel". When matching
bad messages "Hi!" etc..

I think there are creative ideas that might help with both a and b issues. It
might be impossible but I think it would be interesting to try.

~~~
justaguyhere
Hmmm. With dating services, there is a higher level of expectation than just a
site for friends. I kinda wish there is a way to just meet people and talk -
no other high expectations to begin with at least. After all, the first step
in dating is becoming a friend, isn't it?

~~~
scarejunba
Bumble Friends/BFF is that.

------
closeparen
Loneliness is usually presented as a matching or communication problem: if
only all the lonely people could find each other, and had the social skills to
initiate contact, all would be well.

But what if it’s deeper than that? Could we be losing the life/personality
traits that make people interested in us? Overstimulated by other sources so
that friendships with ordinary people are not interesting uses of time?

For example, just because you yourself are overweight, does not mean you will
be attracted to other overweight people. So we should expect a decline in
sexual relationships as the prevalence of obesity rises.

~~~
ThrowMeDown01
> _if only all the lonely people could find each other, and had the social
> skills to initiate contact, all would be well._

I'd say I have very good social skills, never have a problem getting to know
people when I take the time. The problem is I'm simultaneously a bit lonely
(not a desperation level though) - but also not interested (in meeting
people). It's really weird. Note that the "not interested" does not come from
a(ny) level of depression, there is none (I know because I used to have a
noticeable level of it many years ago, so I know how it feels to be
incapacitated by even a small bit of that affliction). I just don't find most
people interesting enough. That's not a "looking down" kind of feeling, but
merely a mismatch.

A big part of it is the way we all live our lives though, I think. I want (a
larger) _community_ and cannot find or even see it, no so much "the one"
friendship, or even "just friends". Having superficial talks now and then just
isn't enough for me, I'm looking for a larger purpose.

~~~
csunbird
I think you are just a guy who is at wrong place, at wrong time.

Maybe you should try changing your circle of friends and meet different
people, that can instantly change your mood.

For example, at the place that I'm working, I felt the same way, then I found
a nerdy group of people playing DnD. Instantly I felt better and I have people
that I can call friends that I can just hang out with.

My 2 cents :)

------
sjg007
Sure. I mean maybe a few people actually care.. your parents, siblings and
family, maybe your colleagues if you are lucky. All real estate is local as is
anything that happens to you. Look at how we as a society treat the least
able, the poor and the homeless. It's no wonder that the lonely don't expect
any help because we as a society expect someone to reach out by definition. We
are too busy doing nothing to help anyone else outside of our small circle.

------
Mankrik
Is there anyone that suffered a sort of midlife crisis after university? I
fortunately have a job as a developer doing what I set out, but find I'm
lacking the social connections I once had, especially since moving to a new
city with few connections, the ones which I have already I'm fortunate to
have, but still the feeling of loneliness creeps into me when I feel like I
have no excuse to me. I think I'm lacking the deep relationship where I can
open up to someone about how I really feel, rather than the usual conversation
of what I _think_. (overthinking infact being a reoccurring problem)

------
wintorez
In my opinion, Loneliness & Global Warming are the most immediate existential
threats facing humanity.

~~~
nixpulvis
I don't think loneliness is an "existential threat", it's just a crisis. I
have a hard time imagining the human species being wiped out because we're
lonely. I would think that would fix itself long before it got to that point.

Climate change on the other hand...

~~~
jpster
Loneliness, or alienation, can certainly be exploited by politicians & the
malevolent. Not as grave as climate change but possibly impactful at scale.

------
sacado2
I'm not especially a lonely person, I have a job, I have hobbies almost every
day of the week, but I live alone and sometimes wonder how long it would take
for people to notice "hey, this is really strange, anybody got news?" if I had
an accident.

------
gigatexal
That’s so sad! If anyone wants a pen pal or someone to talk to I’m game!

~~~
MAMAMassakali
me

~~~
smithmayowa
how can i reach you, email me at my username @testimonly.com and i will be
happy to talk to you.

------
fudgy73
we are living in a time that without noticing it we are focusing on the
quantity, not the quality of our connections. how can we shift our thoughts
and senses to the latter?

------
mmirate
As I read the article, I was most puzzled as to how people could possibly be
_afraid_ of such a trifle as loneliness.

The answer is in the buried-lead at the end:

>According to the Campaign To End Loneliness, loneliness has been found to
speed up cognitive decline in older people, with one study concluding that it
can increase your risk of developing clinical dementia by 64 per cent.

>Increasing the risk of high blood pressure, coronary heart disease and
stroke, as well as disability, loneliness has also been found to increase your
risk of dying early by 26 per cent - that's as much as obesity and smoking.

> So this isn't just a social problem - it's a potential health crisis.

This results in the question: how can we re-engineer humanity so that our
22nd-century cousins' physical health isn't dependent on, well, _dealing with
people_?

(On second thought, it maybe doesn't result in that question after all:
because nobody alive today could actually benefit from such an effort.)

------
bitxbitxbitcoin
To all those that identify with feeling this way... Remember that it's
statistically impossible that no one will notice. For better or worse, at
least the mailperson will notice eventually.

~~~
sandworm101
"For years, the payments went out of the woman's bank account. Nobody batted
an eyelid. Bills were paid. And life went on as normal in the quiet
neighborhood of Pontiac, Michigan. Neighbors didn't notice anything unusual.
The woman traveled a lot, they said, and kept to herself. One of them mowed
her grass to keep things looking tidy. At some point, her bank account ran
dry."

[https://www.cnn.com/2014/03/07/us/michigan-mummified-body-
fo...](https://www.cnn.com/2014/03/07/us/michigan-mummified-body-
found/index.html)

~~~
justboxing
> The woman's mummified body was sitting in the back seat of her car, parked
> in the garage. The key was halfway in the ignition.

Truly macabre.

~~~
blattimwind
Roald Dahl couldn't have done it better.

