
I moved to Singapore - sivers
http://sivers.org/singapore
======
frossie
The whole stay-abroad until you see "their" point of view is admirable. The
flip side is that after that, you can never really go home. I mean obviously
you can physically, but you give up your ability to fit in with your own
people. This may or may not be a downside for you, but something to be aware
of.

Anyway, congratulations on your move.

[edit in response to questions below: there is a big difference between living
abroad for a few months a year or a couple of years and doing what the OP is
suggesting - living abroad for long enough that your adult life is permanently
established abroad. There is a turning point (in my experience around 15
years) at which point you have lived away from your family and old friends
(which is what I meant by own people) that your different experiences come to
overshadow your old similarities, especially if there are significant cultural
differences. For an academic example imagine a woman from Saudi Arabia where
women are not allowed even to drive living and working in the US for 20 years
integrated in normal US life. It is unlikely she can ever return home and slot
back as if she has never left. Americans are not exempt from this phenomenon -
as can be reported by expats living in Europe going home to visit their
families and ending up in epic arguments over US foreign policy. I live
surrounded by expats (not short term visitors) from many countries and they
would all report various degrees of this. Basically, once you become a citizen
of the world, any one country and culture can come to be seen as parochial).

~~~
cglee
The whole point I believe is to remove the notion of "your own people".
Therefore, you "fit in" anywhere.

~~~
hessenwolf
I would argue you thus fit in nowhere, and that that can be okay too.

~~~
tommi
Are you arguing that you can only fit in to one place in your life? Fitting in
is only a feeling after all.

~~~
hessenwolf
No. I think you can have several versions of your own people.

------
kylec
I'm surprised at his choice of location - Singapore is quite a nanny state,
and the punishments are sometimes quite severe.

 _"Singapore society is highly regulated through the criminalization of many
activities which are considered as fairly harmless in other countries. These
include failing to flush toilets after use, littering, jaywalking, the
possession of pornography, and the sale of chewing gum."_

 _"Singapore has one of the highest execution rates in the world relative to
its population, surpassing Saudi Arabia."_

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_law_of_Singapore>

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disneyland_with_the_death_penal...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disneyland_with_the_death_penalty)

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offence_of_scandalizing_the_cou...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offence_of_scandalizing_the_court_in_Singapore)

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Law_(Temporary_Provisi...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Law_\(Temporary_Provisions\)_Act_\(Singapore\))

~~~
sahillavingia
There are pros and cons of living anywhere. Visit Singapore and you'll
encounter some of the cleanest streets on the planet.

I don't mind the "severe" punishments that come down on those that do things
like litter, because I don't litter — all in all it doesn't change my behavior
for the worse, and only improves the quality of life.

And jaywalking is illegal in the US too.

I'd love to answer any questions about Singapore, if you want to ask them
privately (I lived there for several years): sahil@slavingia.com

~~~
fiblye
>And jaywalking is illegal in the US too.

Depends on where you are. Most cities and college towns in the US don't care
where you cross the road so long as you're not doing it recklessly, and places
where laws are enforced generally have nothing more than extremely small
fines.

I'd rather not live in a society that restricts human liberties to the point
of making citizens robotic. Yeah, the US has its share of problems, but
chewing gum and porn aren't among them.

~~~
zizee
My friends Dad, travelling in the US, had the police order him off the street
at gun point because he was jaywalking.

I'm sure that is not the typical experience of most people, but I thought it
an interesting anecdote after seeing the parents post...

~~~
miked
>> had the police order him off the street at gun point because he was
jaywalking.

I simply don't believe your friend's dad was telling the truth. There are
plenty of bad cops in the US, but drawing a gun on someone because they were
jaywalking? I call bullshit.

~~~
cubix
Doesn't sound so outlandish to me:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHjjF55M8JQ>

~~~
georgemcbay
FWIW, the motorcyclist in that video was never once "at gunpoint".

The officer drew his weapon because he did not know how dangerous a situation
he would be in with the motorcyclist and he was in a tactically weak position
by having to pivot around to face the person he was stopping. He never pointed
the gun at the motorcyclist and quickly reholstered it after assessing the
situation was non-threatening. And as you can see in the full video, the
traffic stop was totally warranted, the idiot on the motorcycle was a danger
to himself and everyone else on the road:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7PC9cZEWCQ>

There are plenty of bad cops out there caught on video doing horrendous
things, but I don't get why anyone would use this as an example of bad police
behavior -- the cop in this video was totally reasonable and professional.

~~~
cubix
True he wasn't technically at gun point.

However, how was the rider a threat to anyone by that point? He couldn't run
the officer down like you could with a car (he would just end up on the
ground). He was boxed in.

I would also challenge the notion that the rider is an 'idiot' and a danger to
himself or others. Of the 3m39s long video, there's only about 10 seconds
(starting at about 0:35) where he accelerates significantly faster than the
surrounding cars, and that was clearly to get around a group of cars/transport
trucks. Otherwise, he was going just slightly faster than the general flow of
traffic. Both of these tactics are basically inline with conventional
motorcycle safety recommendations:
[http://www.sportrider.com/ride/146_9508_motorcycle_riding_ti...](http://www.sportrider.com/ride/146_9508_motorcycle_riding_tips/index.html)

Also, it appears that the officer is hiding his gun when the marked cop car
pulls up behind them. I think it's worth pointing out that they charged the
rider with wire tapping (which the judge ultimately threw out) and raided his
house after discovering the video had been posted on YouTube. It's hard not to
interpret these actions as embarrassment on the part of the police. Why would
they object to the video being posted if he was completely justified?

The video wouldn't be approaching a million views on YouTube if most people
agreed that his actions were as reasonable and mundane as you imply. He didn't
show his badge or even identify himself as a police officer until after
charging at the guy with gun in hand. That doesn't strike me as
'professional'.

~~~
georgemcbay
I read the entire page you linked and I can't find the recommendation that
states that after having just cut off a tractor trailer and wishing to pass a
bus, you should pop a wheelie while accelerating at a very high rate of
speed... but it must be in there somewhere, right?

If he dumps on that wheelie, you're looking at a multiple vehicle pileup
involving a motorcycle, a tractor trailer, a bus, and other cars. It is
virtually a given that people(including but not limited to the motorcyclist)
will die.

The motorcyclist in this video is a total prick and if you don't see any of
the many things he did wrong (both in the sense of being illegal and just
plain dangerous/stupid) in that video you must not be paying attention.

~~~
cubix
I'm not sure how you're defining 'cut-off' but there's no way he forced the
transport truck to brake. There was ample space between the vehicles by the
time he changed lanes since the motorcycle was accelerating quickly at that
point.

Granted it's not recommended, but the likelihood of an experienced rider going
down from a short, low wheelie like that is quite low. Saying that it is
likely to lead to a pile-up and multiple deaths is hyperbole hardly worth
addressing. Pile-ups almost always involve inclement weather.

Anyway, it's no more dangerous than the countless drivers I see chatting on
their cell phones, disciplining their children in the back, eating lunch, etc.
-- activities that probably the majority of drivers engage in at some point.

------
cletus
I love Singapore, except for the climate, which is oppressive.

There is amazing hawker (street) food everywhere and, thanks for strict
enforcement of health regulations, it's pretty cheap too. At least it was.
It's been a few years since I was there.

I kinda view Singapore as the Zurich of Asia. Zurich (and Switzerland in
general) is very regulated (although Singapore more than Zurich; there are no
rules against chewing gum in Zurich). Both cities are clean, almost sterile,
safe and they basically _work_ (public transport and other infrastructure).

Some people chafe against what they feel is an intrusion. You see those same
opinions about New York where I now live. Some feel that NYC has lost a lot of
the "grit" or "character" that it once had (back when, you know, muggings were
common). One wonders at the psychology of danger and character going hand in
hand.

For those who think Singapore is overly-regulated, which it is, you have to
remember that English-speaking countries are pretty much an outlier. In
continental Europe there are rules about _everything_ , from how to throw out
the trash to have to register with the government every time you move and what
kinds of window treatments you're allowed to use.

When I worked in Zurich a colleague once described it succinctly: in England
(and, by extension, the US, Canada and Australia) you can do whatever you want
except for those things that are banned. On the mainland (of Europe) you can't
do anything unless it's specifically allowed.

While not true in the strictest sense, that delineation that is tantamount to
blacklisting vs whitelisting does, at least in my experience, embody a lot of
the cultural differences between English speaking and non English speaking
developed nations.

That guy's wife is Finnish and she found it unnerving in England. She wanted
that structure of essentially being told what to do and how to do it (within
limits).

The only thing I don't really like about Singapore (apart from the
weather)--and this is probably true of most Asian countries--is the importance
of face time at work. You're expected to be at work a lot even if you're not
doing anything. That whole "appearance of work" thing and regimented approach
to work in general (ie being very much concerned with the process rather than
the results) is something that I've always chafed against.

~~~
bluedanieru
It's not the rules that keep me out of Singapore it's the disproportionate
response for breaking them. I don't mind if a place I'm visiting doesn't want
me to chew gum or has a law about flushing the toilet, and I think for both of
these the punishment is (high) fines so it's only money. But death penalty for
drug possession? Count me out. Not that I would bring drugs there, but in any
civilized nation the worst thing that could happen if I were falsely accused
and could not prove my innocence is a variable amount of jail time. In
Singapore, I would die. You might argue that this could be said of any country
with capital punishment and you'd be correct, however for Singapore it applies
to more crimes and is administered more freely.

Singapore is a dangerous country.

~~~
kablamo
I'm not a fan of the death penalty. But to be afraid of dying in Singapore is
silly. Singapore is probably the safest country on the planet. There is no
crime. No natural disasters. A good, cheap medical system. A great
transportation system. A booming economy. All things that make you safer and
live longer.

I just moved to London from Singapore and I don't understand why westerners
put up with such high levels of crime. Its awesome to be able to ride the
train at night and walk through any park or dark street anywhere in a major
city at 1am and feel completely 100% safe.

Westerners distrust government because government sucks in the West. They tax
you at high rates and give you long lines and crappy service. In Singapore
government works. It produces jobs, every government form is online and the
rules are ALL practical and actually make sense (unlike the west). Policemen
are polite and courteous. My Singaporian wife paid 5% in taxes last year btw.

And above all its safe to go for a run at night!

~~~
randallsquared
_And above all its safe to go for a run at night!_

...unless it turns out to be illegal to go for a run at night, in which case
it's terribly unsafe, and there's no way for a person from a "legal to run at
night" country to know without checking.

Now, you might say, "Well, that's ridiculous; there's no reason why it would
be illegal to run at night," but I think I can come up with at least as good
reasons for making that illegal as for banning chewing gum. Making things
illegal when there is no _obvious_ reason for them to be illegal creates
uncertainty and doubt; mixing in life-altering punishments provides fear, as
well.

~~~
hessenwolf
Chewing gum is really expensive to clean up from streets, and they have
invested a lot in having nice streets. It's just a cost/benefit thing.

It's cheaper to fine the blood out of people for not flushing public toilets
than to pay staff to check in every thirty minutes, and the reduction in costs
(and maybe other things) means that Singapore has awesome public toilets.

~~~
randallsquared
The stated reason for the ban was to reduce vandalism of the MRT. That doesn't
make it obvious.

~~~
hessenwolf
Fair enough.

------
jasonkester
"we took one carry-on bag each, and went around the world"

Reading that just makes me smile. Well done.

So many people say they want to do exactly that. So few do it.

Of the people who don't do it, so many regret not having done it. Of the
people who have, I've never met a single one who regretted it.

I hope your story serves as inspiration for somebody here to pack that little
carry-on and book himself a one-way flight.

------
brisance
Singapore isn't perfect, but no place is.

These are some issues that Singaporeans face:

1) Rising cost of living through inflation. 2) Expensive housing. 3) Lack of
financial liquidity. Singaporeans are asset-rich but cash-poor. 4) Apathy
amongst the populace about social issues, legal and political process although
this is changing, albeit slowly. 5) An extremely ingrained and fearful sense
of failure. If it's not been done before, the default answer is "No".

Some good things going for it:

1) Public infrastructure is generally good but facing challenges from an
increasing migrant population. 2) Personal safety. Women can walk home alone
at night and not be assaulted. 3) Racial harmony. You don't read about hate
crimes, skinheads etc. Some forms of implicit racial profiling and
discrimination exists, but they are not widespread. i.e. there are always
assholes of any color. 4) Low personal income tax.

------
matimateo
First post here - long time lurker. I was transferred to Singapore for work
from Tokyo. Here are my impressions. -housing is extremely expensive, food is
generally cheap, air quality is nice

-streets are not as clean as expected, especially compared to Tokyo, which is a much larger city. I lived in Chinatown in the People's Park Complex with 6 mainland Chinese (I'm American), which was an interesting experience.

-the expat community is dominated by the finance community, which can tend to limit the crowds you will run with if you're not in with the locals. I tried to befriend the locals, with limited success.

-it doesn't feel like the police state it's made out to be, don't worry about being arrested for chewing gum (I saw some T-shirts with a "Legalize It" theme referring to gum).

Overall, Singapore seemed sterile to me. That was part my reason for quitting
my job and moving back to Tokyo in April. I like Singapore, but not my cup of
tea. Maybe that's just because I'm a huge fan of Japan.

------
quant18
Congratulations on the move! Asia is a great place to be. And a great
environment for doing business. I'm in Hong Kong --- in several cities around
the region including here, SG, KL, and Jakarta I see lots of latent
entrepreneurial energy starting to manifest itself.

One warning: since it seems you plan to majority-own some local startups I
hope you have an excellent accountant to help you with Uncle Sam. (yep,
Americans living overseas still have to file with the IRS. whole mess of
complicated forms. can even end up having to pay tax on undistributed
corporate profits if you're not careful ...)

------
david927
Whenever I go to a new place, it takes about a year to really understand the
true "costs" of living there. (The benefits are usually obvious on the first
day or two.)

I have a friend who lived in Singapore for many years. The biggest "cost" for
her in living there was that _it is not fully subscribed to the principals of
the Enlightenment_.

I know this is like saying, "Yes your new girlfriend is cute and smart, but
you should know she's also occasionally batshit crazy." You won't believe me
and you'll be more inclined to shoot the messenger, but I thought you should
know.

~~~
dualogy
No place on earth is "fully subscribed to the principals (principles acshully)
of the Enlightenment" -- once you fully grok that, every place is perfectly
fine for tourism and every place kinda sucks for citizenship. Of course,
degrees vary. But... in principle!

------
bemmu
I would recommend against putting a scan of an identity card online.

~~~
jackowayed
Yeah, I was wondering about that too. But is that number publicly available?
If so (or if nothing bad happens if people do know it), is there an issue?

Edit: Hmm ... "This has led to complaints of the possibility of fraud and
identity theft. Therefore, now when NRIC numbers are publicly displayed, only
the last three digits and the letters are displayed."
-[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Registration_Identity_...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Registration_Identity_Card)

~~~
sivers
This is one way to find out. You've also got my home address and mobile phone#
in the public corporate records (see bottom of <http://50pop.com/> ) - so I'm
not relying on security through obscurity.

~~~
bemmu
After proudly getting my driver's license I put an image of it online. Someone
printed it out while replacing the picture with their own face. Police saw
this fake ID. Even though the quality was laughable, I was called in for
questioning because they thought I might have cooperated in the fraud.

But yeah, probably an unlikely enough event to not worry about it.

------
jacques_chester
I've played footsie with moving to Singapore if I get a startup bubbling.
Here's why:

* Low regulation

* Low company tax

* No income tax paid on dividends

* _No capital gains_

It's also a market capital for Asia. Singapore and Hong Kong are the New York
and London of the Asia-Pacific region. Very deep pools of capital.

Plus it's 3.5 hours from my home town and about 5 hours from where my parents
live.

------
bina
Congrats Derek.

This favors a trend I've noticed. White men moving to Asia or marrying/dating
Asian women. It seems like half or more of the engineers I work with are
married to Asian women, which is how I noticed this (I am also). It's an
interesting trend. It's increasingly harder to find a white woman who will
marry and have kids, let alone even talk to a man with geeky characteristics.
Combine that with the lack of white women in science and engineering
degrees...

~~~
jasonkester
This is a tough subject. You're right that if you walk around a city in SE
Asia, you'll inevitably see lots of old, fat, bald men walking around with
young pretty local girls, and there's no mistaking what's going on. Lots of
these guys marry their bar girls and bring them home, so it's not uncommon to
see a surly, tattoo'd guy walking around in Manchester with a Thai girl who's
clearly way out of his league.

But what happens if you're a young traveler living in Chiang Mai, teaching
English, and you meet a local girl who works as a bank teller. You fall in
love, meet her parents, marry and eventually move back to your country with
her. How do you signal to the world that yours is in fact a legitimate
relationship?

The short answer is: you can't. There's a stigma, deserved or undeserved. It's
something you learn to live with, because you know that nomatter how clearly
you explain your position, you'll still end up fielding uncomfortable
questions like the one asked by the parent.

~~~
enry_straker
As far as love, and other personal matters are concerned, why do you care what
other people think? ( with apologies to Feynman )

If you were to judge Asian women purely on looks, they might feel like they
belong to a different class, but more often than not, they are using the
'white' guy to escape the grinding nature of their poverty and a pretty cruel
life back in their hometown.

For folks with a western upbrinding, they also seem to like the calm,
obedient, slightly docile nature of asian women - though i believe education
and other opportunities are making them more outspoken and discerning than
before.

If you find yourself dating someone - and sense stigma from friends, relatives
etc ignore them initially till they get used to your partner/gf/bf etc. As
time goes by, folks come around. It's really difficult to hold a grudge or
stigma for a long period of time.

~~~
bane
_calm, obedient, slightly docile nature of asian women_

I don't think you know enough Asian women.

------
sidwyn
I grew up and lived in Singapore all my life, and am glad to hear you moved
over!

One thing to note though, you should remove your Identity Card No. from your
blog post. They can be used illegally and is best kept private.

Have dropped you a mail, let's meet up sometime!

------
ido

        Race: Caucasian
    

Maybe it's cultural bias, but I was really surprised they'd list something
like that on an ID card!

~~~
drinian
Singapore's position on race is difficult to characterize. This is what I've
heard:

Most Singaporeans live in government-owned housing blocks. The distribution of
the races within each housing block is roughly the same as in Singapore as a
whole. Within these blocks, _you are only allowed to sell your apartment to
another person of the same race as yourself._

Officially this is to promote "racial harmony." That's probably true.
Unofficially, it seems clear that it's also a form of gerrymandering: the
government assumes that the Chinese majority will always support the ruling
party, and this system stops any district from gaining a Malay majority.

I've also been told that your second language in school (which is taught in
English, a neutral language) is determined by your race: Mandarin for Chinese,
Malay for Malaysians, and Tamil (!) for Indians.

I really love Singapore -- been there several times as a visitor, studied its
governance, society (and its food stalls...) but I would be seriously pissed
off if I were told that I had to do certain things because of my race.

~~~
jstewart
"I've also been told that your second language in school (which is taught in
English, a neutral language) is determined by your race: Mandarin for Chinese,
Malay for Malaysians, and Tamil (!) for Indians."

Remember though that Singapore is bilingual, so the "second language" will be
the primary language spoken at home (although some Chinese may speak Hokkien
or another dialect instead, and many families speak mainly English).

Roughly around 60% of Indians in Singapore are Tamil (mostly from Tamil Nadu,
Malaysia, and Sri Lanka), so that could be one reason the government chose
Tamil as the "second language" of Singaporean Indians.

~~~
drinian
Fair enough, it is a very different situation from the US where most students
are taught in the language they speak at home (English).

------
nihilocrat
Do you learn the local language every place you live?

I would suppose that's a pretty herculean task unless you already know several
fluently and spend a considerable amount of time daily studying and
practicing.

~~~
maayank
English is an official language of Singapore.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore#Languages>

~~~
xiaoma
That's true in theory. The Singaporeans I've known and worked with have pretty
much all been bilingual in Mandarin and English, often speaking Taiwanese or
Cantonese as well. On the down side, their Mandarin, English and probably
other languages are each strange.

Despite having grown up in an English environment and having spent most my
adult life in Taiwan, communication isn't necessarily that smooth. It's like
they just grab words, grammatical particles, and sentence structures willy-
nilly from whatever language they feel like, including Malay. It's not just an
issue of "Singlish". Even adjusting to standard Mandarin in China is a bit of
work for the Singaporean interns I've met in Beijing. As a casual learner of
Cantonese and Taiwanese, it's fun crowd to hang out with, though!

------
tlrobinson
What's the cost of living for a foreigner in Singapore like? Obviously there
can be a big range, but I'm curious what your experiences are?

More generally, is there some resource for comparing costs of living of
various places?

~~~
sivers
Very very expensive. About the same as central London. I wouldn't recommend it
at all if you're concerned about that.

------
lzy
While Sivers is obviously an awesome guy, why is this post about him moving to
Singapore hitting the frontpage?

Just curious.

(Congrats on becoming a Singapore citizen btw!)

~~~
throwaway0506
He's a community member telling us not just about a big change in his life,
but about two new projects he's starting. As a weekend post, it's pretty good.
At least much better than the current top item
(<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2621132>), which screams "video of
pratfall!"

Too bad the main discussion here has turned out to be a low-quality back-and-
forth about the political system and macroeconomic factors, just like the
Indian reverse braindrain thread last week
(<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2601240>)

------
sashthebash
"She can do this from anywhere"... that's often the problem.

I can work from anywhere and I'm currently single, so I'm traveling the world
and living in different places (currently Buenos Aires), but a partner would
make this much harder as they are usually not as flexible.

Startup idea: Have a dating site for location-independent individuals, I'll be
your first customer :).

------
whow
Singapore reminds me of Apple.

A very focus country on being the most successful country in SEA and it's
built on the vision of one man, LKY. However I do fear the day LKY pass and
the government is lost.

------
cageface
Singapore seemed a little to squeaky-clean and expensive, so I did the same
thing, but in Vietnam instead. Internet infrastructure here isn't great but
other than that I haven't regretted it for a second. The U.S. and Europe just
seem so boring now when I go back.

~~~
seri
I'm Vietnamese, so I get a little curious here. Would you mind sharing what
you particuarly like about Vietnam? And which city are you living in?

~~~
cageface
I'm in Nha Trang. I love the food, the friendly people, the beautiful beaches
and the countryside. It's also very cheap to live here so I have a lot of
personal runway to work on my own projects before I have to consider getting a
real job again or consulting for somebody else. It's a perfect place for a
little hacker sabbatical.

------
louislouis
Did you ever consider Hong Kong as one of your possible locations to migrate
to? And what made you decide against it?

~~~
sivers
It was near the top of the list, but failed on two big counts:

(1) - the air

(2) - Cantonese

I've already been studying Mandarin slowly for a couple years, and though I've
heard I could have "gotten by" with English and Mandarin, I really wanted to
just focus on Mandarin + simplified Chinese.

But mostly it was the air. :-)

~~~
chailatte
Why not Taipei then? The area near 101 is quite nice. And it has a better
nightlife.

------
d99kris
Having set up a similar goal many years ago - to stay/live in a big number of
countries - it's interesting to see that we both settled for Singapore.

------
shmulkey18
Are you enjoying living in a police state? Seriously.

~~~
iantimothy
We aren't a police state. We enjoy different kinds of freedom. Sure,
previously some of the 'freedom to' stuff was clammed down upon,but the recent
elections showed that we might be moving forward in the right direction. I am
casually optimistic that we will find the right balance to allow our citizens
both 'freedom from' and 'freedom to' liberties.

~~~
shmulkey18
"Different kinds of freedom". Whenever anyone says this, I get very nervous.
It's pretty clear that these "different kinds" are not real freedom at all,
and so don't include things like freedom of speech, the ability to truly
determine who governs you, or even the freedom to water or not water the
plants in front of your apartment (failing to do the latter in Singapore will
result in a visit from the cops).

Here's a case of a man who was arrested for daring to write a book which
criticised the use of the death penalty in Singapore:
[http://www.indexoncensorship.org/2010/07/singapore-alan-
shad...](http://www.indexoncensorship.org/2010/07/singapore-alan-shadrake-ben-
bland-free-speech-death-penalty/). I doubt he thinks the trade-off you propose
for these (putative) "different kinds of freedom" is a good one.

Also: what you refer to as "freedom from" liberties seemed to inevitably
involve infringing another's "freedom to". As such, it seems improper to term
them "freedom".

The fact that some prefer a happy face dictatorship to a system which affords
a large measure of actual liberty seems to me a very sad commentary on the
human condition.

~~~
iantimothy
Is an individual's freedom to do something more important than another
individual's freedom from something? My country takes a rather paternalistic
view on this but like I said, i am casually optimistic that things will change
and we as a country are moving towards a more informed citizenry renegotiating
the social compact between the govt and people and finding a balance in both
positive and negative liberties.

Edited: I can't seen to reply the comment below, so adding the reply here. One
of the things my country takes very seriously is both the perception and
actual oppression of minorities. In this case, we want ethnic minorities to
have the freedom from majority oppression. As an example, there are measures
that are put in place that prevents some of our freedom to say certain stuff
about the religion Islam in a certain way. To say the rules are like a cudgel
instead of a scapel would be right but as a citizen I can see where my
government is coming from.

Like the comment below said, generally yes to freedom to instead of freedom
from. What is considered not a general case in Singapore differs; that does
not make us wrong. Neither does it mean our system is right and perfect. What
it does mean is my country is learning and hopefully maturing.

~~~
shmulkey18
In other words, you're OK with the state forbidding forms of political speech
it finds undesirable. Nice. Banning "freedom to say certain stuff about the
religion Islam" is censorship, pure and simple.

Read "Brave New World" and see if any of the things depicted there ring a
bell.

~~~
jwwest
I think the point of BNW was that there was no censorship, but rather the
population just didn't care.

------
yzhengyu
Welcome to Singapore! I'm a native and I am glad you are enamored of our
little island so much so you applied for permanent residency. :)

On the flip side, if you stay long enough and pay more attention to what goes
on around you, I hope you will realize under the facade of shining steel and
glaas, our society is also very dysfunctional.

------
webmonkeyuk
I've got to wonder how much of a good plan it is to publish your ID card
including ID Number and DoB.

------
iantimothy
Hello from Singapore! And welcome to the family. Hope to meet you at
echelon2011.

------
charlesbarbier
Why is this post get so many vote? I understand that this guy is famous for
some of the stuff he did, but hey... hacker news is news for hacker, right?
not news about hacker?

~~~
mcantor
Travel and worldliness are both interesting subjects to many hackers. I'm sure
that a less notable hacker moving to Singapore wouldn't attract quite so much
attention, but you should notice that most of this thread isn't about Mr.
Sivers: it's about Singapore.

------
flocial
At least Singapore's upfront about it. America has a shameful proportion of
its population incarcerated and what of the Department of Homeland Security
and other agencies encroaching on your liberties? Or how the TSA strips you
with a more radiation than Fukushima just to travel?

Of course, there are valid critiques of Singaporean society in the comments
but for the average person these draconian laws might be minor trade offs for
a safer, cleaner urban life.

------
noelsequeira
Here's wishing you all the best on this latest leg of a journey we've so
enjoyed reading about.

 _Singapore is 3 hours from India_

You must visit way more often - you now have no excuse not to.

------
BadassFractal
Pretty amazed that you got permanent residency in under 8 months. That'd be
amazing in the US.

------
jrockway
Ah yes, Singapore... the one developed country with harsher laws than the US.

~~~
mhd
Depending on how you're looking at things lots of first world countries have
harsher laws. The US gets kinda batshit with their punishments (drug war,
three strikes etc.), but a lot of European countries have bigger restrictions
on free speech, the UK has its libel laws, generally employment is more
regulated etc.

And then there's the whole gun issue.

(No, this doesn't make Singapore any "better", I'm just saying that the US
isn't exactly dystopian just because it doesn't have legal hookers)

------
fookyong
I just moved to Singapore too! (been here one month exactly now).

It's ace. I'm loving it.

------
arvin
Nice! I also moved to Singapore just 7 months ago. Great country to work in.
Loving it here too.

------
nikcub
congrats!

you should totally blur your national ID number, though

and I had no idea they do the old 'race on national ID' thing

------
FrojoS
Singapore is a fine city.

[http://www.google.com/search?q=Singapore+is+a+fine+city&...](http://www.google.com/search?q=Singapore+is+a+fine+city&hl=en&qscrl=1&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=P1frTZ_aKaHy0gHVgem-
AQ&ved=0CCIQsAQ&biw=833&bih=450)

------
nithyad
Hope I visit you in Singapore before you move out to another part of the
world!

------
seymores
Wow, where do you hang out?

~~~
sivers
Home. Working. I prefer solitude. I don't hang out much.
<http://www.tagbento.com/243/dereks-desk>

~~~
caswabi
Welcome!

btw, is your office on Beach rd? ours is too (Shaw Tower), hope to run into
you around the area.

~~~
sivers
Feel free to email me anytime : <http://sivers.org/contact>

------
PaulHoule
cool for you. i'd rather stay in one place and get a chance, in my lifetime,
to learn how a forest grows myself.

------
johnnyjustice
You are my hero Sivers. Very few people are bad ass and contribute. Thank you
showing me it can be done.

------
donaq
Welcome to our sunny island!

------
chailatte
Strange, considering Singapore is a pretty musically desolate place. Then
again, Imogen Heap was just there, so I guess you'll get the occasional rain.

Try restaurant andre.

------
lotusleaf1987
Your favorite subject is always yourself.

Why should I care about this? Was bitcoin in the headline earlier?

