
Sauropod Neck Posture - foxes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauropod_neck_posture
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ncmncm
It is unfortunate that the page is so mealy. There is a lot of good science
going on around the topic.

For a while there had been a sort of consensus around the notion of "neutral
posture", the joints held at about the middle of their range. By examination
of extant animals that was shown to be absurd; hardly any animal maintains
anything like such a posture, not even those you might expect to, like
alligators. It is much more common for one or more joints to be "at the stop".
From owls to rabbits, a deeply S-curved neck is the norm.

Another folly was sticking bones together to see how far they could bend
between stops. That both under-and overestimated flex range. Under, because
thick cartilage in joints often separated bones, providing more room; and
overestimated, ignoring limits on extension of connective tissue.

Things would have been better if biologists used the notions of "least upper
bound" and "greatest lower bound" on numbers, and sought to successively
narrow them, as physicists do. But they're biologists.

Notions about practicality of extremes of blood pressure have been hard to
investigate, because no living animal has any need for anything close to what
they would have needed. It would not be unreasonable to hypothesize two-
chambered helper hearts in the neck, but no evidence of any such thing has
been interpreted from fossils, and it would be quite a novelty, so risky for a
working paleontologist to suggest.

~~~
cwmma
But do they have a two-chambered heart? Birds have a 4 chambered one and
crocodiles have a 3 chambered one, which IIRC, is in some ways more complex
that's very well suited to their current style of ambush hunting.

~~~
ncmncm
Apparently the current view is that crocs abandoned one of their chambers,
which seems to me an astonishing thing to achieve.

We can probably assume that the croc relatives that lived in trees or
thundered across the tundra had four-chambered hearts. I gather most of them
were taken by the mass extinction early in Jurassic era that opened the way
for the dinosaurs.

The crocs we have now must have all evolved from little caiman-like things,
all their bigger relatives done in by the K-T event.

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Camillo
A few weeks ago I spent an evening reading posts on svpow.com, and I have
become a sauropod neck truther. If you just look at how necks actually work in
living animals, you can immediately see how arguments based on the
"osteological neutral pose" are complete bunk. Here's a place to start:
[https://svpow.com/2014/11/03/necks-lie-the-complete-
story/](https://svpow.com/2014/11/03/necks-lie-the-complete-story/)

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Eyght
The horizontal posture seems favourable for Sauropod racing.

~~~
mfoy_
Agreed, the rider would be less likely to fall off, and would have better
visibility.

~~~
ByThyGrace
Not if the rider is mounting the head. :-)

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marcosdumay
I don't get why blood pressure is relevant for heart energy expenditure.
Animal bodies are full of blood, it's not like hearts pump blood up there,
they just pump it into movement.

I also can't imagine how that long neck evolved (and stayed there) without a
huge competing advantage. The and usual advantage of large necks is feeding
high, so I distrust the claim that an animal with a long neck couldn't keep
his head up.

~~~
mfoy_
Blood vessels can expand and contract. That's why fighter pilots without legs
can actually withstand higher-g maneuvers. That's also why compression socks
can improve circulation and reduce swelling in your ankles if you have to
stand all day.

~~~
cbanek
> That's why fighter pilots without legs can actually withstand higher-g
> maneuvers.

You just wrinkled my brain. Is there an actual group of fighter pilots without
legs who are taking advantage of this?

~~~
pontifier
I've often wondered if maybe sitting upright might not be the best position
for a modern combat pilot. I can see pilot who is laying down pulling far more
Gs than even a legless one sitting upright.

~~~
Pinckney
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloster_Meteor_F8_%22Prone_Pil...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloster_Meteor_F8_%22Prone_Pilot%22)

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netfl0
I love stuff like this. It’s awesome to think about all the things that were
different than we imagine.

