
Finnish bank forbids employees from investing in cryptocurrencies - danijelb
https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/nordea_forbids_employees_from_investing_in_bitcoin_other_cryptocurrencies/10036291
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bsilvereagle
There seems to be a lot of outcry in this thread about employers dictating
what you're allowed to invest in. From what I've seen, this is fairly common.

One small company I worked for forbid more than 2% ownership in a competitor.

The federal government limits you (or your spouse & children) from investing
more than $15,000 in a company you are working with:
[https://ethics.od.nih.gov/topics/deminimis.htm](https://ethics.od.nih.gov/topics/deminimis.htm)

The federal government goes so far as limiting you from owning more than $50k
of sector based mutual funds:
[https://ethics.od.nih.gov/topics/deminimis.htm](https://ethics.od.nih.gov/topics/deminimis.htm)

Granted, you _can_ own more than $15/$50k if you're willing to go through the
financial disclosure bureaucratic process, but that could very well end in a
change of job duties.

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Vaskivo
But can't you own cryptocurrencies anonymously? How are the banks going to
enforce this rule?

~~~
smcl
In finance it's common to have to disclose your investments to the company's
Compliance department.

So sure you could own a bunch of Ethereum/BTC/Doge on the sly, in the same way
that you could "anonymously" own a Panamanian or Cayman Islands company
invested in a bunch of things that you don't want your company to know about.

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hx2a
Isn't this normal for finance companies in the US? I used to work at a few
investment banks and there were strict rules about employees reporting all
financial transactions. Since cryptocurrency transactions can't be monitored
in the same way that my Fidelity account can, they were all prohibited.

~~~
raphaelj
I don't understand. Are we really talking about personal savings? Why are
banks having anything to say on what an individual can or can't do with
his/her own money?

~~~
hvidgaard
If you're trading for a company, your legal work actions may impact certain
markets. If you know about this beforehand, you may trade with your own money
with an advantage - to prevent people abusing this, you're not allowed to
trade privately if you're responsible for trading or the decisions on what to
trade. Your salary should reflect this restriction.

~~~
arghwhat
Would that not be considered insider trading, in which case the employee is
privately committing a criminal offense, and thus does not require any
additional restrictions?

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bpicolo
Insider trading is a huge part of what they're trying to avoid - intentional
or otherwise. It puts the firm at risk if their employees are making dubious
trades, even on their own time with their own money

~~~
arghwhat
It makes sense that the company wishes to avoid insider trading, but it
doesn't make sense that the company is telling its employees to not commit a
criminal offense. It should be obvious, and the disincentives by the company
is nothing compared to huge fines and time in jail.

~~~
bpicolo
It's not just that the tell them not to, they actively audit for it. It's a
risk to the company, not just a personal risk to the employee

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ols
Seems like a sensible suicide prevention program.

~~~
FilterSweep
This was my takeaway. Alot of people are saying "this is standard in banks"
but one its a Finnish bank, and two, their rationale (and prior stated
position) on crypto is that its too risky.

If you're married with children and all of a sudden all of your savings
crashes and your kid gets sick, the risk you took on goes to the company too.

~~~
lawlessone
True there is a thing called the fraud triangle.

One side(point) of this triangle is pressure.

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wonderwonder
It makes sense in that it likely helps reduce the likelihood of employees
making desperate decisions based on financial hardship. If for example an
employee is heavily invested in crypto and is about to use his earnings to buy
a house and the market tanks 50% they are more susceptible to accepting bribes
or commiting fraud or theft. It's similar to how risk analysis is done on
those seeking secret clearance. Certain behaviors regardless of intent make
you vulnerable.

I'm pretty bullish on crypto and have no problem with this, especially in an
industry with easy access to so much money and personal information.

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Ninn
Not a Finnish bank, it's Nordea is present in all of Scandinavia. In addition,
several other banks in Scandinavia already employs similar rules.

~~~
Strom
Nordea is headquartered in Finland and even has a Finnish CEO. I think it's
fair to call it a Finnish bank.

~~~
reycharles
Their headquarters were in Sweden less than a year ago. Nordea is a merger of
a lot of Scandinavian and Finnish banks. I don't think it's fair to call it a
Finn bank.

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kennu
Some other banks in Finland (OP and Danske Bank) meanwhile have announced that
they are _not_ forbidding bitcoin investing by employees, although they don’t
recommend it:

[https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-10038918?origin=rss](https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-10038918?origin=rss)

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holmb
I find it very curious if they have the legal power to enforce this. If it is
not in the employment contract then a prohibition like this would not stand.
Sure, the employer could try to implement this but I am quite sure it is
against their labour laws.

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bighi
To me (not living in the US and some other countries), it is weird if it's
legal even if it's in the employment contract.

The idea of companies having the power to decide what it's employees can or
can't do OUTSIDE of the company seems absurd.

~~~
holmb
I have seen these kind of prohibitions at for example Nasdaq OMX. I assume it
is legal if it is agreed in a contract. There is a balance here what might be
a "human right" and what could be in conflict with the best of the company --
and it would seem reasonable for a company to try this. If they will find
people willing to sign that contract is another matter altogether.

Edit: typo

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teekert
Don't spend your money your way, slave!

(Edit: My boss telling me what I can or cannot do with my money would be a
reason for me to immediately start looking for another job. Who the hell do
they think they are? I can't believe it, this article must not be telling the
whole truth.)

~~~
fwdpropaganda
Well obviously you've never worked in investment banking.

It's a contract. You don't like it, don't accept it. It's a free market.

