
Alphabet’s Wing begins making commercial drone deliveries in the US - anon1m0us
https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/18/alphabets-wing-begins-making-first-commercial-drone-deliveries-in-the-u-s/
======
baron816
Anyone else worried about the noise pollution that will result from widespread
drone delivery services and “flying cars”? I’m thinking the pushback won’t
happen until there’s enough penetration that wealthy interest groups will make
it impossible to rollback. I can envision a future where we’re all just stuck
with a loud constant hum from drones overhead.

~~~
fauigerzigerk
Are they louder than delivery vans? I never heard one from close distance so I
really don't know.

~~~
dcow
Yes. They sound like weed whackers.

~~~
delfinom
vuvuzelas You know, that annoying thing that ruined FIFA world cup matches?

~~~
tripzilch
I thought it was the corruption

------
beefsack
Wing's trial here in Canberra has felt a little unremarkable. People don't
really talk about it, apart from the occasional local news piece about someone
complaining about the noise.

I'm quite interested to see how much people buy into it in the US. From a
consumer point of view it seems they're directly competing with established
services (eg. Uber Eats), and the main differentiator is a gimmick.

~~~
enjo
" and the main differentiator is a gimmick.

My bet is that drones will be able to service these deliveries MUCH more
quickly than humans. They're not in traffic. They can scale up with demand
much more easily (much of the wait for Door Dash et al. is just getting
someone available to make the delivery). Those advantages even get more
pronounced with distance (up to whatever serviceable distance drones will
have).

I'm very bullish on the idea of drone delivery. I'm hopeful that it will
empower smaller businesses to compete with Amazon prime even, but that's
probably a pipe dream.

~~~
SomeOldThrow
Who wakes up saying "gosh my life would be so much better if I could just buy
things faster"?

~~~
llukas
You do not have kids, don't you?

~~~
GordonS
I have kids, and this isn't a problem for me - not really sure what the
children angle is here?

I live in a small rural town in Scotland, yet Amazon and others can deliver
stuff to my door the next day. In big cities, some companies even offer same-
day delivery.

Honestly, I don't need my stuff any quicker than that.

I'm sure there are some genuinely useful niche uses for drones - for example,
there was a recent HN post about a company in Africa doing drone delivery of
medical supplies to remote and inaccessible locations.

But I don't think it's a good idea to fill our skies with noisy, flying
lithium batteries, just so you can get a pizza in 16 minutes instead of 18.

~~~
londons_explore
Do you own a blender? How often do you use it? Do you not think that the
economic and environmental cost of producing that blender is too large,
considering how rarely you use it? It literally sits unused 99.99% of the
time. Talk about inefficiency!

If a drone service could deliver a blender in 5 minutes when you had blending
to do, and take it away again when you're done, the blender could get much
better utilisation by being shared with the entire town, at a lower economic
and environmental cost.

The same probably applies to nearly everything in your house.

~~~
GordonS
While you might have a point for some items, I think there are diminishing
returns for most; I obviously don't have numbers, but it would seem to be
highly inefficient to fly a blender around with a drone. Your 5-minute figure
is also pretty unrealistic.

I could see how drone delivery _might_ work for high value items, but they
could just as easily be delivered in an EV van/truck carrying hundreds of
items instead of just one. One genuinely useful case might be quickly flying
blood/organs to a hospital.

There is also the human cost to consider; the noise of a single drone is very
irritating, I can't imagine the horror of having our skies filled with the
things.

I know of course you were generalising, but in my particular case, I actually
do use my mini-blender quite often (for making curry pastes) :)

------
alister
So we have FedEx, Walgreens, and Wing (a.k.a. Alphabet, a.k.a. Google) all
collaborating on this. Any of these huge companies could have run a pilot
project by themselves and had a head start over the competition. I wonder why
they joined up?

My theory #1 is that it's risk mitigation against inevitable public backlash.
If and when something happens (drone crashes, a package falls, whatever) the
media will be talking about the horrible thing that Google did, or whoever is
the frontrunner in drone delivery. Just look at how critics gang up on Tesla
when it comes to driverless cars. By combining forces, the media and critics
cannot single out Google because it's FedEx and Walgreens and Google; it's
everybody doing it.

My more mundane theory #2 is that Wing got the federal certification first, so
FedEx and Walgreens paid Wing to be involved for fear of missing out.

Theory #3: It helps with lobbying the more partners you have. Lobbying at
state or federal level I think will be super essential otherwise every city
will be creating their own set of regulations and some may try to ban drone
delivery.

~~~
Iv
I think the answer is simpler: they could not have run a pilot project by
themselves.

Logistics are complex businesses. Google does not have warehouses in enough
places to cover an interesting area. FedEx has. And drone deliveries are going
to be expensive and only for lightweight items first. That means medicine
makes sense. Walgreens will bring the clients.

And no, making reliable transport drones and the infrastructure to load them
up, get a reliable GPS coordinate from your client, identifying drop-in zones
is not easily done, and that's the value Google brings.

------
OnlineGladiator
I would love to see the iterations that led to that final design, because
there's almost nothing conventional about it. I know they spent a surprising
amount of time just on the hook.

[https://www.wired.com/story/wing-alphabet-x-drone-
engineerin...](https://www.wired.com/story/wing-alphabet-x-drone-engineering/)

~~~
dTal
I work in electric aviation, and we're looking at similar hybrid
fixed/vtol/distributed designs. You need the VTOL for most practical drone
applications including delivery, but you need fixed-wing linear flight for
range. It's better to use many small fans for the VTOL part for reliability
and stability, and it's more trouble that it's worth to try and re-use the
same thrust units for hover and for forward flight (the design points are
completely different). The main clever thing that strikes me about this design
is the twin boom, which minimizes drag in forward flight and is very frugal
with support structure for the lift fans.

On the other hand, this drone doesn't look production-ready to me. Too many
exposed wires and servos. I don't rate its chances in a good downpour.

~~~
mkl
Any idea why the right tail is a different shape? Is that an antenna sticking
out? Why the bulbous white part?

~~~
thanhhaimai
I believe that's a Pitot tube. It's to determine the airspeed of the drone.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitot_tube](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitot_tube)

------
PopeDotNinja
Related topic... Drones delivering blood in Rwanda --
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnoUBfLxZz0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnoUBfLxZz0)

~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
I can see specialised sectors where this will, like emergency / rapid medical
supply delivery.

More difficult to see a regular urban / suburban application working.

------
ferros
While I'm always excited by reading these articles, my mind always goes back
to the boring problems like privacy and noise.

~~~
readhn
there are simple solutions for minimizing drone noise :)

~~~
wideasleep1
Sadly, shotguns within city limits must remain secure inside your
vehicle...trying to figure out a more legal and safer way.

~~~
petre
Probably not legal but definitely safer:

[http://jammers4u.com/drones-jammer](http://jammers4u.com/drones-jammer)

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Santosh83
Once drones really take off, I'm concerned about their impact on birds, bats
and other aerial animals. Will we see bird hits left, right and centre? Will
these corporations petition to "cleanse" their airspace of all birds and bees
so that their drones don't take a hit? Nobody seems to have thought of this
angle...

~~~
alkonaut
So long as drones are reasonably slow (bird-like speed) birds will get out of
the way. Now, animals might be stressed or displaced by this which could be a
bad “impact”. But I doubt they’ll be falling out of the sky. You don’t see
many birds colliding with bigger/faster birds.

~~~
masonic

      birds will get out of the way
    

Windmills are _completely stationary_ , yet birds collide with them all the
time.

~~~
alkonaut
When the windmills are stationary (the _blades_ that is), birds very rarely
collide with them. When the blades do move, they are often a lot faster than
these drones (120-180mph is not uncommon).

~~~
masonic
"Dr. Shawn Smallwood’s 2004 study, spanning four years, estimated that
California’s Altamont Pass wind “farm” killed an average of 116 Golden Eagles
annually... Smallwood also estimated that Altamont killed an average of 300
red-tailed hawks, 333 American kestrels and 380 burrowing owls annually – plus
even more non-raptors, including 2,526 rock doves and 2,557 western
meadowlarks"

[http://savetheeaglesinternational.org/new/us-windfarms-
kill-...](http://savetheeaglesinternational.org/new/us-windfarms-
kill-10-20-times-more-than-previously-thought.html)

~~~
kaybe
How big is that farm to cover the territories of that many eagles? On first
glance that looks like an amazing claim.

~~~
masonic
Almost 5,000 turbines.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altamont_Pass_wind_farm](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altamont_Pass_wind_farm)

------
gniv
This video is exactly two years old, the drone looked the same:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_zoJfkElmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_zoJfkElmw)

------
CJefferson
What are the rules if a drone crashes in my garden. Is it mine? Do I have to
spend time and energy giving it back?

~~~
Dumblydorr
By 2030, if GoogMazon's drone incidental landing feature is implemented, you
will be required to put it into your house and rate it 5/5, lest your capital
credit score is demoted for disrespecting our corporate overlord.

------
nashashmi
Alphabet wing needs to be at the forefront for creating policy that's serves
both customers and businesses yet still avoids the swarm of nuisance, noise
pollution, privacy violation, and operational failure. The only way to avoid
public backlash.

Required are

1\. Established routes

2\. Operational failure protocols

3\. Limits in Distance veering from established routes for deliveries

4\. Collision avoidance

5\. Noise to height ratio

6\. Minimum and maximum speed requirements

7\. Capability limits e.g. Video, audio, recording, delivery.

8\. Color codes

9... What else.

(inspired by hn comments)

------
strooper
It will be interesting to see the implementation of three dimensional drone
traffic.

Who is working on the drone path guidelines, and traffic control policies?

~~~
zhoujianfu
I feel like automated flight could always avoid incident by detecting all
objects (at the same elevation) within $x feet, and if the object is north of
you, move up $y feet, and if it’s south, move down $y feet, unless another
object is above/below you, in which case veer $z degrees clockwise and
continue travel until you can change elevation?

~~~
pininja
For aircraft to aircraft there’s a automatic advisory which coordinates this
between aircraft.

[https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Airborne_Collision_Avoid...](https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Airborne_Collision_Avoidance_System_\(ACAS\))

I’ve heard some Airbus have it tied into their auto pilot too.

When all else fails, the rule is “turn right”.

~~~
zhoujianfu
Cool, yeah, seems pretty straight-forward?

I think we may never have fully self-driving cars because fully self-flying
cars is so much easier, and better! It just needs to get quieter.

------
Udik
Drone deliveries is one of those ideas that look simple and always almost
within reach, but the more people try them the more they reveal their
complexity.

I wonder why hasn't any company just proposed or built a network of pipes in
which autonomous pods can zip around to deliver goods. Doesn't seem too
expensive- the pipes don't even need to be interred outside cities and they
don't need to be huge- just enough to deliver grocery-sized stuff. Seems
immediately feasible and with a load capacity that air deliveries will never
support.

~~~
NeedMoreTea
Victorian London had the London Pneumatic Despatch Railway for the Post
Office.

[https://www.newstatesman.com/future-proof/2013/12/londons-
vi...](https://www.newstatesman.com/future-proof/2013/12/londons-victorian-
hyperloop-forgotten-pneumatic-railway-beneath-capitals-street)

Edit: Oh, and many large late Victorian shops and offices had pneumatic tube
systems for passing money away from the shop floor, or exchanging messages.
They're still made:

[https://www.aerocom.co.uk/air-tubes](https://www.aerocom.co.uk/air-tubes)

~~~
Udik
Of course, I know of the Victorian pneumatic tubes. But with today's
technology would be very different: the pods would be electric and autonomous,
and the pipes would be nothing else than enclosed rails. The routing would be
performed by the pod itself in communication with the pipe, and the pods could
use radar to avoid bumping into each other.

It would be a rather simple system, really: a closed pipe with a rough guide,
with sensors and data exchange points every now and then and at junctions. The
pods would not have to be very fast: 60km/h would be already a fantastic speed
inside cities when the only stops are start and destination point. The pipes
can be taken to individual buildings (shops, offices, houses), but there could
also be public delivery and shipping points on each street/ block. The
standard (small) size and shape of the pods (or of their internal container)
means that they can be easily manipulated automatically: for example,
collected and shipped on different transportation systems such as trucks or
rails to reach distant or unconnected destinations, then reintroduced into the
pipes system.

Elon, where are you? :)

------
reilly3000
We now live in a world with little capital constraints afforded to some
entities. After a successful... pilot these drones could be rolled out as fast
as the electric scooters appeared (barring local/state regs). Competition for
the last-mile skies may become fierce as investors flock to own a piece of a
brand new category. While I don't think it prudent to 'fly fast and break
things' I can't help but think its inevitable that scale will happen quickly-
and drone insurance along with it.

~~~
oceanplexian
It’s not about capital constraints, the issue is with regulatory constraints.
As long as there is a 0.01% chance of an unmanned drone losing control and
flying into the engine of an airliner on final approach, it will be heavily
restricted.

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mensetmanusman
High frequency noise pollution until they fly like owls.

------
FillardMillmore
I have my reservations about drone deliveries. But if they are proven to be
reliable and somewhat cost-effective, I would pay a 10-15%+ premium to get my
groceries delivered by airdrop. What's more valuable, your time or your money?

~~~
wavefunction
What's wrong with a grocery van dropping them off?

~~~
ryanhuff
It would be nice if a drone could make deliveries to a spot in my backyard.
There are too many packages being stolen from people’s front porch in my
neighborhood.

~~~
alasdair_
Calling it now: thieves will use cheap drones of their own to steal your
packages with minimal risk to getting caught.

~~~
throwaway66920
Or just shoot down the delivery drones

~~~
puranjay
I'm very sure the drones would have cameras to catch the culprits. You
wouldn't want to destroy property owned by a $800B corporation.

~~~
artursapek
The strength of that defense depends on whether the cameras are streaming live
feeds to a remote server, or just storing it locally.

~~~
alasdair_
A complete camera and RF transmitter is only a few grams in weight and
negligible in power draw. (I fly a tinyHawk which is 42g including the drone,
camera, RF stuff, flight controller, frame, motors, props AND battery) I can't
see them NOT having real-time camera feeds, especially since they have actual
pilots in control of them.

------
alkonaut
We don’t have amazon so I’m not used to this extreme hurry this seems to be
targeting. If I order something I usually go pick it up at the shop on the
corner after 48-72h. In rare cases the day after or even delivery to my door
(I prefer pickup tbh). I thought same-day or next-day delivery was already
widespread in e.g the US. Is this a push to shorten delivery even more? Hours?

~~~
allset_
Amazon Prime Now (select locations only) already has delivery within a couple
hours. This is about reducing costs of such services.

~~~
alkonaut
Are people willing to pay for it? How much? I’d probably rather go for 5%
cheaper and delivery within 48h, for example. Is there a big market for
“stuff, now”? I realize once you get used to it, you get used to it. I used to
live in a smaller town where normal delivery was a week, now I live in a big
city and can usually get 1-2 days and I can imagine how I’d feel if I had to
go back to a week.

~~~
allset_
1hr delivery is $10ish, 2hr is $5ish. It depends on what you order.

Edit: To clarify, most people don't use this most of the time, because most of
the time 24-48hour delivery is fine. That said, it is VERY convenient when you
realize you need X today and cannot wait. Even with the shipping fee, an
Amazon basics cables is often cheaper than a trip to Best Buy.

~~~
alkonaut
Yeah I think one of the reasons I don’t quite see the appeal is the lack of an
Amazon (or equivalent). There is just no place that has everything and
probably also has it cheaply. A cheap cable I’d need to chase online for an
hour and then probably register at the obscure web shop where it was cheapest.
It’s a hassle, but also I kind of enjoy the lack of the shopping monoculture
Amazon brings.

------
ilaksh
The article says that they actually only did exactly one delivery. And they
don't mention any specific details about more deliveries.

------
tenryuu
Trust TC to put a 9MB file in their articles, ublock is quick to deny it

------
joering2
Duplicate:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21295652](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21295652)

------
legohead
buzzing to a house near you!

------
eranimo
How would this ever compete with land-based delivery? What are the numbers?

~~~
mdorazio
I don't think it's really meant to compete directly to start with. This is a
technology PoC that will be initially be used to deliver small, "I need it
now" packages to locations that are easily air-accessible but might be a pain
to get to via driving. In the future it's likely this will be a complement to
normal ground-based delivery for heavier packages and packages in high-density
areas, probably with a "mothership" ground vehicle or small local warehouse as
a base of operations.

~~~
MagnumPIG
> locations that are easily air-accessible but might be a pain to get to via
> driving

Also known as everywhere in a city

~~~
masonic
But an inner city context is exactly the worst for drone delivery. Where do
they drop it safely? How do they navigate to that low an elevation around high
rises, awnings, trees, overhead wires, etc.? How do they avoid pilferage or
outright theft? Animal damage?

------
PeterStuer
Why are companies so intent on turning this planet into an auditory hell hole?

I know happy people consume less than unhappy people, but it's probably just
not giving a fuck about the negative externalities and having long since
captured any public body that would interfere on behalf of sanity.

~~~
dannyr
Do you feel the same way about cars that are much bigger and consume more
fossil fuels?

Wing had to get approval from the FAA and the city to operate and noise level
is regulated.

~~~
fenwick67
I would be skeptical that an electric mail truck on a route is less fuel
efficient than a hundred drone trips back and forth.

~~~
GordonS
It seems pretty improbable to me too. Is anyone aware of any numbers published
by Wing or other drone delivery companies?

------
aphroz
A pilot program to have pilot-free vehicles piloted by pilots

------
jaimex2
Is it illegal to shoot these down and take their contents?

~~~
icelancer
You just named two things that are already illegal. Why would there need to be
a new law?

~~~
catalogia
To make it legal.

------
daenz
How much cost/effort would it be to string up safety nets in urban areas for
drones? My biggest concern with drones is that they fail, and that means
they're landing on someone's head. If a city invested in nets, maybe 100ft
above the ground, I imagine you could have a much less anxious civilian
population with drones flying overhead. Someone tell me why this is a silly
idea.

~~~
Zhenya
Birds

------
paul7986
Cool these can be shot down ... skeeting shooting now drone shooting/treasure
hunting.

Also, so the sky is going to be littered with drones delivering packages from
cold syrup to condoms? Further, aren't these things noisy?

