
Facial recognition will soon end anonymity - eplanit
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/facial-recognition-will-soon-end-your-anonymity-2016-06-02
======
bredren
One way to look at this is that people won't feel embarrassed by things they
do in public.

See Bob Gale's view on privacy here:

[http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/21/how-back-
to...](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/21/how-back-to-the-
future-predicted-trump.html)

Facial obfuscation can and will be a thing. Choosing coverings that provide
some anonymity but don't scare people will be interesting.

Movement gait can also be analyzed but harder to collect and analyze so it
will come later.

Edit: You might enjoy The Private Eye, a graphic novel that has some facial
recognition / obfuscation leanings:
[http://panelsyndicate.com/comics/tpeye](http://panelsyndicate.com/comics/tpeye)

~~~
Analemma_
> One way to look at this is that people won't feel embarrassed by things they
> do in public.

I've heard this theory before, that once there are no more secrets, we won't
be embarrassed by our social missteps anymore, or able to use them to attack
others because the attacking party will be equally guilty. I think it's a load
of BS. Humans are nasty, shitty little hypocrites: if they have dirt on
someone else they'll shout it from the rooftops without caring one whit if
they're just as bad. Similarly, the people consuming the gossip won't care one
bit if they have equally embarrassing stuff in public, before using that data
to pass unalterable moral judgment.

Have you ever seen an internet comment section filled with Screaming Moral
Outrage at some faux pas, even though most of those commenters are probably
worse people? That's what the future is going to be like. Picture a shame mob
stamping on a human face, forever.

~~~
jfoutz
Maybe. I dunno. I do know the "next" big problem is access asymmetry. You can
see where i've been all day, but i don't have the same level of access to
these specialized systems, so i'm kinda screwed.

My favorite local example is red light cameras racking up 100k in fines
against police cars without their lights on. They were all forgiven.

On the flip side, that stuff will only work for a little while. President Bush
came just shy of admitting use of cocaine. Obama flat out admitted it, and it
was no big deal. Clinton more or less ended the pot stigma. Drug use (in the
past) has been more or less eliminated as a shaming tactic. I'm not saying
some people won't scream moral outrage, it's just that no one else will really
care.

So maybe i get caught picking my nose. Me and 300 million other people.
_shrug_.

~~~
amag
Sure it's easy to think that you basically anonymous when 300 million others
are doing it, but when a potential date looks you up and sees a lot of vids of
you picking your nose, maybe you're not so attractive anymore.

~~~
TeMPOraL
> _but when a potential date looks you up and sees a lot of vids of you
> picking your nose, maybe you 're not so attractive anymore._

Congratulations. An unreasonable person that you wouldn't like anyway has
self-selected themselves out of your dating pool. I'd personally call it a
win.

Outrage is mostly a sign of immature character. People get away with it today
because it's not easy to call them out on their hypocrisy.

~~~
amag
That's just the thing, maybe nose-picking isn't a big issue _after_ you get to
know each other. Many people are very risk-averse when it comes to romantic
relationships and the tiniest thing may cause someone to pass on you if they
haven't had the time to see your other qualities.

IMHO this doesn't necessarily make a person unreasonable, just cautious or
someone with other options.

------
PebblesHD
On a less serious note, maybe mask culture will re-emerge, in response to
constant identification. Personally I would love to break out my decorative
gas mask, I'd love to see a computer ID me wearing that!

~~~
toomuchtodo
Facial temporary tattoo that throws off machine learning?

~~~
mtgx
Then the tattoos would have to be generated in a truly random way as well.
Otherwise, an AI like AlphaGo would quickly "learn" which are the tattoos on
people's faces, especially if there's a limited selection of designs of say a
few hundred or thousand.

~~~
StavrosK
...or, you know... Tattoo detection software. Since you, you know, just
permanently put some uniquely identifying paint on your face.

~~~
strictnein
> "Facial _temporary_ tattoo"

~~~
TeMPOraL
E-ink tattoo.

------
11thEarlOfMar
Reminds me of the somewhat heated debates in the halls of Sun Microsystems
back in the 90s when Caller ID was just being introduced. It was seen largely
as an erosion of privacy since you'd not want the person you are calling to be
able to screen your call so easily. Of course, over time, it became standard
to the point that I am no longer surprised when services I am calling have my
records up without asking who I am.

Those arguments seem quaint today, scarcely 20 years later. So it makes me
think that 20 years from now, facial recognition in public places will be
similarly integrated and we'll just stop noticing.

~~~
algorias
The difference with caller ID is, of course, that you need to deliberately
initiate an action (calling someone you don't trust) for it to "erode" your
privacy. Facial recognition can be done to you on the street by anybody,
without you being able to opt out or even know it's happening. It's not even
remotely the same thing.

~~~
anfedorov
I think sunglasses will become the standard opt-out, and perhaps the legal one
at some point.

~~~
AceJohnny2
Clearly it will lead to new fashion trends, as society adapts to the
widespread use of "computer vision dazzle" makeup.

[http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/07/makeup...](http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/07/makeup/374929/)

/s (I think)

~~~
zipwitch
Or we'll all wear goggles, steampunk or otherwise.

------
the8472
Those apps rely on data harvested from social networks. Or outright exported
through their APIs.

A solution is to not make that kind of data publicly available. Either by not
using a social network account at all or by using one that respects your
privacy settings, e.g. by not tagging your face on other people's image
uploads.

~~~
elliotec
If all my social media pics are me with a shaved head, face, and glasses, will
I be safe if I grow long hair and facial hair and start wearing contacts?

~~~
gozur88
Probably not. From what I understand facial recognition software relies
heavily on things you can't change, like the distance between your pupils and
the ratio of your facial features to each other. You can certainly obscure
your face, but if you were forced to remove sunglasses and such, say, at a
security checkpoint you'd probably get ID'd.

------
tdy721
IMHO: Facial recognition, along with other software and analysis techniques,
have already ended anonymity. We're just waiting for the world to catch up.
Anonymity may still exist in this world, but those are outliers, no longer the
rule.

------
personjerry
I have this funny vision in my head where people start practicing strange
contortions of their faces in photos designed to counter current facial
recognition algorithms. Then the software writers adjust their algorithms to
compensate. Then new silly faces are invented. Rinse and repeat. Although I
suppose in the end the algorithms win because they can easily just try each
past variation and choose the best one.

~~~
tdy721
This assumes you are only photographed willingly or knowingly. I think that
case is an exception, and not a rule. I'm not afraid of Facebook, Mastercard
probably has a more intimate database on more people. Think CCTV.

------
ridiculous_fish
Relevant article on what it's like to wear anti-surveillance camouflage
makeup, aka "the dazzle":

[http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/07/makeup...](http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/07/makeup/374929/)

------
DenisM
I am nearsighted, but for a long time I did not wear glasses. I could
recognize _a lot_ of my friends by gait and posture from a huge(for me)
distance, long before I could see their faces. My cat knows who's coming
before the door opens - she can tell the steps. I don't think privacy will
last, given how data collection improve.

I suggest a compromise: all data can be collected, but it has to be locked up
until a court order is issued to unlock it. A real court, not one of _those_
courts. A fourth branch of the government will be in charge of safekeeping, to
avoid the pressure from executive. Kind of like BBC in the UK.

~~~
tdy721
So the algorithms for this kind of recognition already exist in your head (and
your cat's). How do you propose we lock that kind of information down? Do you
really believe we can lock that kind of information down? How would a Fourth
branch of government fall into the checks and balances of the current system?

Also, your system assumes some kind of World Government? I would really love
to be wrong here...

------
TimJRobinson
In the article it mentions Microsoft patented advertising based on facial
recognition here:
[https://www.google.com/patents/US20080004951?dq=facial+recog...](https://www.google.com/patents/US20080004951?dq=facial+recognition+advertising&hl=en&sa=X&ei=WcJoVamnOsmTsQTDtYOQDQ&ved=0CFwQ6AEwCQ)

I don't understand how they could patent this when it's basically what's in
Minority report which was released in 2002.

~~~
chroma
FYI, the targeted advertising in Minority Report used retinal scanning, not
face recognition. Automated face recognition would have totally changed the
movie, as fooling such tech requires more than swapping eyeballs.

------
jsemrau
I am actually quite worried about this development
([http://buff.ly/1ZhvE9c](http://buff.ly/1ZhvE9c)).

With facial recognition, the ultimate people database, and location-patterns
we are well on the way end-to-end surveillance.

*not too serious : Maybe conservative Muslims are way ahead of their time?

~~~
CapitalistCartr
Maybe you should be serious. But, like cryptography, it only works if many
people (majority?) use it.

~~~
tdy721
An addition, not a correction: _But, like cryptography, it only works for as
long as isn 't broken and does not break._

~~~
TeMPOraL
And, like cryptography, only works for as long as someone doesn't bother to
pwn you via a side channel.

------
sandworm101
>> Soon anybody with a high-resolution camera and the right software will be
able to determine your identity.

No. Software cannot do that. You need software PLUS access to some data set.

>> Tracking people in the real world might start to look more like it does
online, causing changes to our behavior.

Ok. Stopped reading there. There is no comparison to online. I've got my VPN
on atm and my user-agent spoofer just notified me that it was changing to some
other random fib. I'll believe such statements when someone explains to me how
Tor can be implemented in meatspace. Online and realworld are not the same.

(When we all have google glass nailed to our faces, will adblockers be a
thing? I hate billboards.)

~~~
TeMPOraL
> _No. Software cannot do that. You need software PLUS access to some data
> set._

Exactly. Sadly, as an individual, I don't have access to such dataset.

> _(When we all have google glass nailed to our faces, will adblockers be a
> thing? I hate billboards.)_

Real-life adblock would IMO be the killer feature for AR :). Though _much_
harder to implement than its web counterpart.

~~~
fold
Brand Killer
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDPn7MGxPjs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDPn7MGxPjs)

~~~
sandworm101
It's cool in VR goggles, but logo-detection has been a thing in the film/tv
industry for a long time. For instance, up until a couple years ago US shows
had to edit out corporate logos when broadcast into the UK due to advertising
rules.

------
LeoPanthera
CV Dazzle becomes more and more relevant.
[https://cvdazzle.com](https://cvdazzle.com)

Edit: Changed link to one that doesn't hate HN.

~~~
Hilyin
Classy site, redirects to a pic of balls when referer is HN.

~~~
pdkl95
Another practical example of why the referer header needs to be removed
entirely.

------
Kristine1975
Time to buy a Niqāb.

Or better: Lobby for laws that make it illegal to store the data necessary for
facial recognition unless absolutely required e.g. for security.

------
hackney
Great. A lesson in individuality and it's importance to self, and the whole.

